# 250 watt metal halide high bay equivalent



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

You going for a one-for-one replacement?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Rich R said:


> What fluorescent high bay type light fixtures would be equivalent to an existing 250 watt metal halide high bay, I have a warehouse with 25' high cielings and want to install fluorescents to replace them


 
T5 or T8 ho's would probably work ok.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> You going for a one-for-one replacement?


 
not necessarily, They are about 20 feet apart right now, but they will do whatever I recomend to them. I looked at the T8 HO's like jw said but I am not sure what that is equivalent too. Does a 4 bulb HO give off the same light as a 250 watt metal halide high bay ?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Is there a manufacturing chart out there somewhere that gives the information, such as comparing two different fixtures at the same distance?


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

When I get into something like that my supply house gives me all the info. to present to the customer. Tell them what you have, what your thinking of doing and they'll print it out with the fixtures, locations, candles, pricing options, etc.. Makes life easy.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

jw0445 said:


> When I get into something like that my supply house gives me all the info. to present to the customer. Tell them what you have, what your thinking of doing and they'll print it out with the fixtures, locations, candles, pricing options, etc.. Makes life easy.


That is what I would do, as well. But, it would be nice to have it in advance. there are fixtures that give out more light but are more labor intensive, and you would be able to give the customer the choice of the additional labor cost, or not.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Thanks guys, I guess the best bet is to get with a lighting supplier or rep


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Rich R said:


> not necessarily, They are about 20 feet apart right now, but they will do whatever I recomend to them. I looked at the T8 HO's like jw said but I am not sure what that is equivalent too. Does a 4 bulb HO give off the same light as a 250 watt metal halide high bay ?


If you are 20' apart, you will likely want to do 6 Lamp T8's. You might be able to get away with 4 lamp, but you won't see improvement. I just replaced an entire warehouse of 175W HID with 4 lamp T8's with marked improvement, but the section that had 250W at about 20', we used 6 lamp T8. You will definitely get more light with 6 lamp since it is also a superior replacement for 400W, but for 250W, 4 lamp T8 is on the bubble.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Lighting Retro said:


> If you are 20' apart, you will likely want to do 6 Lamp T8's. You might be able to get away with 4 lamp, but you won't see improvement. I just replaced an entire warehouse of 175W HID with 4 lamp T8's with marked improvement, but the section that had 250W at about 20', we used 6 lamp T8. You will definitely get more light with 6 lamp since it is also a superior replacement for 400W, but for 250W, 4 lamp T8 is on the bubble.


 
Hey Retro, supplier is telling me with 4 Lamp T5HO I can space about 25' apart at 30 foot high. Does that sound about right in your experience or is overkill ? I thought the T5HO's were almost twice the amount of lumens as a standard T8

This is an open warehouse, so running 10' MC whips from existing J boxes won't be a problem. There are no aisles or other obstructions to block light.

Warehouse is 150' long by 75' wide and I figured 16 4 Lamp T5 HO's


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

That's the exact fixture I would recommend at that height and spacing. 4 lamp T5 HO is going to put out a bit more light than a 6 lamp T8 with HO ballasts. Also 234W vs. 216 watts in most cases, but still less than what you've got. Wow, that's a cave if they have depreciated 250W Halides.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Lighting Retro said:


> That's the exact fixture I would recommend at that height and spacing. 4 lamp T5 HO is going to put out a bit more light than a 6 lamp T8 with HO ballasts. Also 234W vs. 216 watts in most cases, but still less than what you've got. Wow, that's a cave if they have depreciated 250W Halides.


thanks, yeah the place is really dim and hot as hell in the summer with the metal halides


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

They will be singing your praises once you're done. It's one of the "cooler" electrical projects you can do for before and after pics. Be sure to take pics! They speak volumes when presenting a similar solution to another owner down the road. 

Just be sure to spec out 850 T5 HO lamps. You want the good ones. If you warranty product, you don't want to be eating the cost of a lift to go back in and replace lamps, and it's not uncommon for supply houses to quote cheap import lamps to show the lowest possible price. 

Also, as an value add, you may consider adding sensors to the fixtures to power down any unused areas during the day. Depending on the facility, that could save tons more.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Rich R said:


> Thanks guys, I guess the best bet is to get with a lighting supplier or rep


That's the best idea. If it doesn't light well at least it wasn't on you. I personally can't really design lighting well enough to be comfortable that it will be sufficient for a customer.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

I got the go ahead on this job today :thumbsup:

Anybody have experience with the different brands of T5 HO bulbs ? I see that GE and Phillips are somehow claiming 10,000 hrs more than Sylvania ... Is this for real or BS ?



http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/f54t5-high-output-fluorescent-tubes-5000k/


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rich R said:


> What fluorescent high bay type light fixtures would be equivalent to an existing 250 watt metal halide high bay, I have a warehouse with 25' high cielings and want to install fluorescents to replace them


Click this link....:thumbup:.. http://www.lightfixtureindustries.c...Category_Code=11000_COMMERCIAL_HIGHBAYS_T5_T8


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

heres a another one..:thumbup:.http://www.specialty-lights.com/plant-grow-faq3.html


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## shineretrofits (Oct 28, 2010)

user438 said:


> I got the go ahead on this job today :thumbsup:
> 
> Anybody have experience with the different brands of T5 HO bulbs ? I see that GE and Phillips are somehow claiming 10,000 hrs more than Sylvania ... Is this for real or BS ?
> 
> ...


I think 1000bulbs.com just put a number down for the Sylvania ones that isn't necessarily accurate. I believe that if you are going with any of the big name brands you'll get around the same quality/lamp life. It all depends on how often the lamps are started up. Check out Sylvania's spec sheet -

FP54 average rated life increased:
– 40,000 hrs. @12 hours/start
– 30,000 hrs. @3 hours/start
– all others rated for 25,000 hrs.
@3 hours/start

http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/documents/FL064.2d4e8f25-6c95-43a8-a4f6-60762129accb.pdf


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

Hey guys....Just looking for some feed-back on a wharehouse/office retro project being offered to me. This lighting company is a nation wide doing business in other parts of the country east & west. They supply the fixtures, lamps, whips, and hanger kit, I supply labor, misc. material, lifts, and dumpsters. The project manager gave me the average labor/counts a man can produce per hour.

:2x4 retro-fits 3 to 2 lamp 9' working ht................5 per hr

: HID's to 6-lamp T-5 35' working ht.....................4 per hr

Those numbers seem high to me, I was thinking more in the line of 2 & 4 per hr. There numbers look like straight up and down installs. :thumbsup:


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

You have to have trained retrofitters to have that kind of speed. You probably won't experience that out of the gate. At 35', 4 high bays per hour ain't happening most likely. 15 minutes for remove and replace? It can be done, but you probably have to have a dedicated ground guy prepping and handing your guy fixtures and taking the old ones away. Also, you have to have some eyes on the ground to keep the fixtures aligned. Those are really best case numbers for someone who has been doing retrofit for some time. It never takes into account setup or tear down time, moving furniture or racks, time for recycling, etc. 

From a budgetary perspective, you are probably better off planning on a guy producing 30 2x4 kits a night, and about 12-16 high bays. If you get more than that, you'll be happy. If you pay your guys by the piece instead of by the hour, you will find that they find ways to get more done and ways to be more efficient. They will not hold the same pace at the end of the shift as they will at the beginning. I would never take someone's "best hour" and extrapolate data from it for bidding purposes.


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## rdevarona (Feb 23, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Is there a manufacturing chart out there somewhere that gives the information, such as comparing two different fixtures at the same distance?


I've been thinking about putting together a deck of "standard" lighting layouts that would solve this type of issue. It would basically be a series of layouts with a specific type of fixture drawn at varying mounting heights and fixture spacing.

Take a look at this spacing study for a 100' x 100' x 25' warehouse. I drew this with three different fixtures mounted at 23' and 20' on center. The results are as follows:

4 Lamp T5HO: 33 fc
6 Lamp T8: 29 fc
4 Lamp T8: 20 fc

The IES recommendation for this type of space range from 5 fc (inactive warehouse) to 30 fc (small items / small labels).

Hope that helps.

Regards,

rdv


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

user438 said:


> What fluorescent high bay type light fixtures would be equivalent to an existing 250 watt metal halide high bay, I have a warehouse with 25' high cielings and want to install fluorescents to replace them


These ones are about 15' apart and 36' high.









Check out this thread.
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/weeks-project-18574/


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## millertimo (Jan 5, 2011)

*rab*

i sell the new RAB rb6t5 all day long....they are good quality and if you go to rabweb.com...they have a lighting layout program to use for free. Rab will do an energy audit for free for you if you want....real nice

fixtures run about $130 each plus lamps


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