# Generator interlock kits.



## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

NEC isn't my code...

My thoughts are that while the interlock kit is a listed/approved device, it still needs to be used appropriately. Also, unqualified people should not be removing a panel cover to defeat a safety device.

Generator panels here come pre-interlocked. Its not an accessory I've encountered at a retailer... always a supply house item.

https://www.lowes.ca/product/genera...36-circuits-maximum-generator-panel-box-46158


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

702.5 states _*"...in any operation of the transfer equipment."*_ So by your question and reasoning if the cover is removed and the (transfer) equipment is mounted to the cover, then the equipment is not being used if someone closes both, being able to do so since the cover mounted equipment is now removed.

We can't prevent all stupids from being stupid all of the time. Although you could upsell a wall-mounted synchroscope as a CYA. If they don't pay attention to the metering with the cover off it's on them. They'd be so befuddled you might be able to sell an ATS at that point.

Is there any literature provided with the interlock? the manufacturer's literature "should" address and modification with their kit.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Some of those are not listed. I have used them but if you are getting inspected then you need to go with the listed one.

I assume you are talking about the one from this company
https://www.geninterlock.com/manufa...-O_x638pHwmNRe7JSsVZ6VWq5YTi_CPsaAoyNEALw_wcB


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

I don't like it unless it is an interlocking breaker or ATS period.. Our brother electricians lives depend on that safety.

As for the size load the protection on the Generator will protect it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I like making markup for automatic transfer switches. I like making money for installing standby generators. I like referring the owner to another company I know for handling all the maintenance on them. 5 minutes or 5 miles, whichever comes first.........


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

yeah...don't get me wrong. If I installed something at my house I'd have it Kirk keyed. As it is I still use a portable with cordsets.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Some of those are not listed. I have used them but if you are getting inspected then you need to go with the listed one.
> 
> I assume you are talking about the one from this company
> https://www.geninterlock.com/manufa...-O_x638pHwmNRe7JSsVZ6VWq5YTi_CPsaAoyNEALw_wcB


Some brands are " Classified " and not "listed" so I wonder what Eaton or Siemens would say if you put the Geninterlock type on their panel. Someone said they buy the panel with the interlock installed at the factory which I like. Let them assume liability.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Thanks for the response. It seems others are also uncomfortable with these after market devices. I am going to check at the supply house if they are available with the factory installed interlock.


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

What exactly is the difference between UL listed and UL classified?


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

kb1jb1 said:


> Thanks for the response. It seems others are also uncomfortable with these after market devices. I am going to check at the supply house if they are available with the factory installed interlock.


What if you don’t have the factory install the interlock kit, but you buy a Square D kit from the supply house at the same time you buy a Square D panel. Would that basically be the same as they’re liable since it’s all their equipment?


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

joedawson79 said:


> What exactly is the difference between UL listed and UL classified?


I believe " UL Listed " is the product as a whole was evaluated. In this case the panel with the factory installed interlock was submitted as a complete unit. The aftermarket product may be " UL Classified " because it is a part or component of an assembly. The entire end product was not evaluated. Maybe it will work or maybe it won't work. UL Listing includes intended use and installation instructions. Field installed kits are subject to the skill set of the installer. Again, this is only my understanding. Would I use these kits? On my house yes. On a stranger's house, no.


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

So if you have a customer that wants a way to use their 6500W portable generator without running extension cords all over the house what would be your preferred method? I just use the kit and explain everything to include they’ll be limited by the overload protection on the generator so no using the AC, dryer, stove, etc. But when they realize they’ll have lights, TV, fridge, and internet, they’re usually pretty happy with what I’ve done.

Last week I installed a Generac home link panel for a guy, it's just basically an 8 circuit sub panel. He bought the thing himself because he said he called Generac and that's what they recommend. So when we were identifying the circuits to feed from the Generac panel, there were two circuits he was forced to back up with the gen panel that he didn't want, because the whole house was wired with multi-wire branch circuits and the Generac panel switches the neutral. In the end he wasn't happy he didn't have any lights or outlets on his second floor living area. I told him I didn't recommend that panel to him, if he called me first I would have gotten an interlock kit for his QO panel and I would have been able to install it in half the time.


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

So I went to order another interlock kit today and noticed something new to me, Met Lab Listed? Is that just a knock off UL listing and does it carry the same weight as UL?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

joedawson79 said:


> So I went to order another interlock kit today and noticed something new to me, Met Lab Listed? Is that just a knock off UL listing and does it carry the same weight as UL?



Met Lab is currently on the OSHA list so the answer is, yes. 



https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

splatz said:


> Met Lab is currently on the OSHA list so the answer is, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html


Yes - it's a knock off? 

Or 

Yes - it carries the same weight as a UL listing?

I installed one a few weeks back.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

PG&E's rolling black outs have created a tremendous demand for gen-sets.

Our forests are burning down because of Environmentalism. The Greens gradually prohibited tinder removal -- and in some quarters actually favored wild fires. (!!!)

And, plainly, here and there, some of our fires have been started by arsonists... mentally deficient souls, no doubt.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

telsa said:


> PG&E's rolling black outs have created a tremendous demand for gen-sets.
> 
> Our forests are burning down because of Environmentalism. The Greens gradually prohibited tinder removal -- and in some quarters actually favored wild fires. (!!!)
> 
> And, plainly, here and there, some of our fires have been started by arsonists... mentally deficient souls, no doubt.


Might as well get it while the getting is good. 

Sounds like opportunity to me.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MHElectric said:


> Yes - it's a knock off?
> 
> Or
> 
> ...


I say they are legit; where the Code requires equipment to be listed, ultimately the AHJ decides which labs they accept, but they'd be out on a limb not accepting a lab on OSHA's list of recognized NRTLs. 



> *Labeled. *Equipment or materials to which has been attached a label, symbol, or other identifying mark of an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with product evaluation, that maintains periodic inspection of production of labeled equipment or materials, and by whose labeling the manufacturer indicates compliance with appropriate standards or performance in a specified manner.
> 
> *Listed. *Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable fora specified purpose._FPN: The means for identifying listed equipment may vary for each organization concerned with product evaluation,some of which do not recognize equipment as listed unless it is also labeled. Use of the system employed by the listing organization allows the authority having jurisdiction to identify a listed product._​*Identified (as applied to equipment). *Recognizable as suitable for the specific purpose, function, use, environment, application, and so forth, where described in a particular Code requirement._FPN: Some examples of ways to determine suitability of equipment for a specific purpose, environment, or application include investigations by a qualified testing laboratory(listing and labeling), an inspection agency, or other organizations concerned with product evaluation._​


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## Blockisle9 (Oct 31, 2020)

I used one in my home only because my panel is in a finished basement with drywall ceilings. I was able to get into the back of the panel from the outside to install the inlet receptacle outside. It does the job but question if it’s nec compliant.... If the cover is removed, the interlock goes away. 
I preferred to use a gentran but that wasn’t an option for me.
I don’t think I’d use an interlock in someone else’s home.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I thought classified meant it was built to a UL classification, or that there is a classification or standard that exists, and it is built to meet it. It does not mean it has been tested and that it meets it. 

I thought that once the manufacturers saw this guys invention and market, they got into the Buisiness, and basically blocked him out. They made it so only the OEM kits could get listed. So buying a SquareD kit from the supply house is perfectly legit and meets code and UL. Of course they are not going to make one that fits a twenty year old panel. They want you to buy a new panel. Or you could buy an after market classified kit. The after market kits I’ve installed were built better than the OEM’s. Well with the exception of using a TyWrap as a breaker hold down kit. 

If I’m correct about the meaning of classified, it may open you up to liability. Installing an OEM would not. Does it matter? With the right lawyer, your always liable.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HertzHound said:


> I thought classified meant it was built to a UL classification, or that there is a classification or standard that exists, and it is built to meet it. It does not mean it has been tested and that it meets it.


from this page



> *UL Recognized *is granted to components that are used in combination with other components to create a finished product. These components have been tested for specific applications in end products.
> 
> *UL Listed* means the product has been tested and meets the laboratory’s standard to be used by itself for a specific purpose.
> 
> *UL Classified *products have been evaluated only for specific properties, a limited range of hazards, or suitability for use under limited conditions. These products have more specific, limited purposes.


Don't all the interlock kits from the panel manufacturers, Siemens, Square-D, etc., mount on the cover, and are UL listed? It's fine if you have personal requirements for what you install, above and beyond what UL or other NRTLs accept - after receptacle backstabs are UL listed - but it's your own, it's not a code requirement.

I think the third-party generator interlock kits that I have found are listed by NRTLs that are on the OSHA list, but not UL. I suppose your AHJ could declare they only accept UL listings, but that would be a pretty heavy handed move. If an inspector refused to accept a listing other than UL, that's on OSHA's list, I would argue that they are overstepping what's within their discretion.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

UL recognized is another thing. I’m not sure if it’s the same as UL classified.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The link I put in my old post also sells some UL interlocks for panels. I have used may of them and they work just fine. I think the UL ones are the same as Siemens or whoever makes them.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

splatz said:


> from this page
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First, as I’ve said many times, UL is evil. UL.com only tests to UL.org standards and assemblies must be UL or UR components. Only UL does this. And you simply cannot bow at the UL alter and function. UL for instance doesn’t test most hazardous location and fire rated equipment...that’s FM. And they don’t do process safety either...that’s TuV. Or NEMA, except motors. So any AHJ that tries to drink the UL lemonade will quickly find every non-electric heating system is not compliant as an example. Some states do publish an NRTL list though, not just OSHAs list. Usually there are few listing agencies that are missing although some are dumb enough to include CE which shouldn’t even call itself a Listing agency. I’ve seen few inspectors that won’t accept any Listing except CE and rightly so. Few check/know their own state list.

Second this whole idea of dictating modifications is crazy. If you could not modify a panel, conduit entries would be impossible especially in another except NEMA 1 where knockout rings don’t meet standards like NEMA 4X. So does everything have to come with predrilled mounting holes and can only mount ONE way? That’s crazy. Half the stuff that Siemens, Square D, GE, etc., sell would be obsolete if “modifications” were not allowed. The moment they put a sticker on it that says you can’t cut holes in it, they won’t be selling any more two screws or MDPs. To say nothing of a Square D MDP retrofit kit.

Second UL exempts common hardware. Excuse me but a hasp is common hardware. Period,

The reason for modification rules is to prevent you from for instance cutting a 1/2” hole in a NEMA 4X panel and sticking a 2 screw strain relief in it for NM. That totally destroys the 4X rating. So some common sense and professional workmanship and applying technical skill and knowledge has to apply. You can’t just write a bunch of rules and expect to make mechanics do electrical work.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I believe UL only tests a product for what the manufacturer will pay for. For instance, if a hub is tested for rigid pipe and not emt or pvc then that is all UL will test. It may be fine for those other products but was not tested for it.

That is the case for those hubs on meters etc...


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I believe UL only tests a product for what the manufacturer will pay for. For instance, if a hub is tested for rigid pipe and not emt or pvc then that is all UL will test. It may be fine for those other products but was not tested for it.
> 
> That is the case for those hubs on meters etc...


This is true, UL (and probably other labs) only test for what's in the instructions. For example the Arlington AnyBody box 









This comes with three hubs so you can set it up as an LB, LR, LL, T, or C. But you can't get creative and put the hubs on for an LB, LR, and LL - which would occasionally be extremely useful - because it's not listed for that. It's not listed for that because to let you get creative, they'd have to test every possible combination, and the company feels that's not going to pay.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

If you wire a house and get your electrical inspection and then a day later another electrician or handyman adds some outlets. Say a fire starts and then the lawsuits start. Was it your work or the handyman's work? Or was it the defective AFCI breaker? Everybody is getting brought into the mix. Whoever has the deepest pockets will most likely bear the brunt of the burden. The similar could apply to the panel manufacturers. If the installer of the aftermarket kit installs it wrong and something happens, who might get sued? Who has the most to loose? Does anybody remember the history about using wirenuts with Aluminum wires? The companies were getting sued because electricians were installing them incorrectly. Likewise the panel manufacturers say "only our devices to be used on our equipment" and tack on to the price of the interlock kit an extra liability premium.


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