# Wiring a new 1500 sq ft House for 3K???



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

dr electron said:


> I generally stay away from new residential because it's done so cheaply in this area but am I missing the boat completely? I could probably do it for that but for close to zero profit. Guess I pay my guys too much!


3k that might cover the service..:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The service.. if standard straight up overhead is $1400.00......


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

dr electron said:


> I generally stay away from new residential because it's done so cheaply in this area but am I missing the boat completely? I could probably do it for that but for close to zero profit. Guess I pay my guys too much!


Seems 'bout seventhousandfivehundred short.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

$16,000 here. I wouldn't get out of bed to wire a $3000 house.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I could see a two bedroom /kitchen/LR/DR house wired for that less service. What are they charging per point ? $18


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

backstay said:


> $16,000 here. I WOULD NOT get out of bed to wire a $3000 house.


:thumbsup: (right?)


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Maybe when 14/2 was $14/250'...../


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Even at 40 hrs to rough and finish with mtl being $1500?( wild guess as i havent resid in a while) No overhead or mark up that is $37 per hr...... No thanks


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## Jbird66 (Oct 26, 2010)

I would never give it a second look.

Go find a paying project some where because that one is not!


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## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

I have two guys that work with me and it was hard enough to get them their 40 before the holidays. Things are a little slow getting cranked up afterward so I tried to get them some work and cut it real slim to come up with about $5K.
But that's the state of trade work in this area. I've seen how contractors do houses and you would be lucky to find a licensed journeyman nevertheless a master on the job. Typically all of the work is done by guys making $10 to $12 an hour with the owner of the company, who has the license, stopping in when the work is done to check things out.
Commercial/ industrial isn't much better. If you can run conduit a contractor considers you an electrician or "mechanic". Having been a superintendent for contractors here for a few years I would get disgusted with the help I would get sent.
I personally blame the fact that there is nothing in the way of an apprenticeship program in this state and to even mention the word "union" is almost illegal!
I have fortunately have found a couple of guys I can trust and who have a fair knowledge of how to do the work but it's not been easy.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

3xdad said:


> :thumbsup: (right?)


Right, fat finger.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I bid $6 on a house that size a few years back, roughed it in two days all by my lonesome

I thought _that _was rock bottom $$$

~CS~


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> I bid $6 on a house that size a few years back, roughed it in two days all by my lonesome
> 
> I thought _that _was rock bottom $$$
> 
> ~CS~


6$ to wire a house?
Did you make any money?:laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

the materials were about 1/3...what can _you _pull down in say, a week JB?:whistling2:~CS~


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Residential new construction tract homes are always priced that low around here. A couple of local EC here wiring for $1.84/sq ft and $1.91/sq ft. Paying guys around $10/hr, making them use their personal cell phones, no vacation, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no benefits whatsoever. 
Most only pay ride time one way if that and some even take reinspection fees out of their employees checks or make them fix it on their own time.

One company was hiring illegal mexican labor, providing the material and giving the CREW $400 to rough in a house.

They would get fined and pay the fine. It was cheaper for them to do that than pay for workers comp or payroll taxes. OUt of state contractor too.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

What ever happened to the great days of the 50's,60s,and 70s when houses where built by bonafide tradesmen who earned a fair living. USA has gone to Sh1t.


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## Lockey (Jun 23, 2011)

Did a house after xmas, 1108 sq ft.. 5k in labor, 4 days rough in and 3 for finishing touches.. dam electric heat!! and material was close to 4700.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

dr electron said:


> I generally stay away from new residential because it's done so cheaply in this area but am I missing the boat completely? I could probably do it for that but for close to zero profit. Guess I pay my guys too much!


You better wear a life jacket if you are going to sail on that boat.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Tell them to post their add on Craigslist you are too busy to do it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

dr electron said:


> I have two guys that work with me and it was hard enough to get them their 40 before the holidays. Things are a little slow getting cranked up afterward so I tried to get them some work and cut it real slim to come up with about $5K.
> But that's the state of trade work in this area. I've seen how contractors do houses and you would be lucky to find a licensed journeyman nevertheless a master on the job. Typically all of the work is done by guys making $10 to $12 an hour with the owner of the company, who has the license, stopping in when the work is done to check things out.
> Commercial/ industrial isn't much better. If you can run conduit a contractor considers you an electrician or "mechanic". Having been a superintendent for contractors here for a few years I would get disgusted with the help I would get sent.
> I personally blame the fact that there is nothing in the way of an apprenticeship program in this state and to even mention the word "union" is almost illegal!
> I have fortunately have found a couple of guys I can trust and who have a fair knowledge of how to do the work but it's not been easy.


Those guys should come up here they can get that at burger King no tools needed.:no:

This is what's wrong with the business model down there you pay the guys chump change and you cant justify any type of profit for yourself.

It's got nothing to do with the union it is a poor business model your state has taken the electrical trade and turned it from a profession to a minimum wage job and that is why contractors don't make much profit at all there.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Those guys should come up here they can get that at burger King no tools needed.:no:
> 
> This is what's wrong with the business model down there you pay the guys chump change and you cant justify any type of profit for yourself.
> 
> It's got nothing to do with the union it is a poor business model your state has taken the electrical trade and turned it from a profession to a minimum wage job and that is why contractors don't make much profit at all there.


Harry,

While I agree a lot of the business model is broken down here, the same could be said for any part of the country. But I believe that your statement only applies to tract home new construction.
That's why I choose not to work new construction. It does amount to almost working for minimum wage, even for the company owner.
I, myself, have a very profitable remodeling and service contracting business. I don't advertise, hell I don't even have an active website, yet I remain busy throughout the year working on referrals and repeat customers.
It's all in how you present your company and who you choose to work for.
The pay rate may not be as high as it is where you live, but the cost of living is also no where near what you are accustomed to either.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

drspec said:


> One company was hiring illegal mexican labor, providing the material and giving the CREW $400 to rough in a house.
> 
> They would get fined and pay the fine. It was cheaper for them to do that than pay for workers comp or payroll taxes. OUt of state contractor too.


That the punishment justifies the crime is my biggest b*tch

We just spent over a year on a prevailing wage commercial job (over 350K ft),where all the labor was out of state Mexicans

This was about 1/4 mile from the state office(s) , the inspectors rode by every day

BUT, because stimulus funds came to town, they looked the other way on the rules, and those rules protect local contractors

~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

dr electron said:


> I have two guys that work with me and it was hard enough to get them their 40 before the holidays. Things are a little slow getting cranked up afterward so I tried to get them some work and cut it real slim to come up with about $5K.
> But that's the state of trade work in this area. I've seen how contractors do houses and you would be lucky to find a licensed journeyman nevertheless a master on the job. Typically all of the work is done by guys making $10 to $12 an hour with the owner of the company, who has the license, stopping in when the work is done to check things out.
> Commercial/ industrial isn't much better. If you can run conduit a contractor considers you an electrician or "mechanic". Having been a superintendent for contractors here for a few years I would get disgusted with the help I would get sent.
> I personally blame the fact that there is nothing in the way of an apprenticeship program in this state and to even mention the word "union" is almost illegal!
> I have fortunately have found a couple of guys I can trust and who have a fair knowledge of how to do the work but it's not been easy.


Interesting read.
We seem to like to stay poor here in the South. People want to be independent to a fault and will not stick together or stick up for each other even if it means starving. 

I cant imagine wiring a house for $2 sf.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> It's got nothing to do with the union it is a poor business model your state has taken the electrical trade and turned it from a profession to a minimum wage job and that is why contractors don't make much profit at all there.


Love them or hate them, it's the state's job to _regulate_ the market Harry

This amounts to a delicate balance , where the state can blow it by either introducing too much bureaucracy or too little

Bottom line, bona fide biz should be allowed to prosper , which in turn helps the state prosper as a whole

What i suspect happened in certain states like Fla , or the Carolina's _(for ex, not trying to pick on you folks)_ is they became a mecca for transient contractors in the last few decades due to a number of factors

This 'market balance' was then disrupted, the resultant bureaucratic kneejerk assuming a detriment to contractual biz

~CS~


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## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> contractors don't make much profit at all there.


Most of them make plenty of profit. It's as much the culture here as anything. Tradesmen are not taught to be and don't consider themselves professionals in large part because of the way they allow themselves to be treated by contractors. On top of that people don't stick with one trade. I can't count how many guys I've met in their 30s or 40s with as few as four or five years experience.
From what I've seen most contractors don't want their guys to have a great deal of knowledge so they can justify paying them a pittance. That leads to guys not properly trained teaching the new ones, literally the blind leading the blind.
In all honesty, after living here for about 12 years (I'm from VA), I see that a big part of the problem are the "working stiffs" themselves. Most of them simply don't want to get ahead. Making enough to pay for their single wide and get a case of "Nattys" once in a while is all these guys want.
I still can't get used to this place.
I'll apologize in advance if I've offended anyone but I'm just calling it like I see it.


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## Slo (Jan 6, 2013)

Well, how they do it here, is lowball the **** out of buildings, but have a ton of stuff specifically excluded in the contract. Then for extras, they charge the crap out of them.

3k for a house is absurd.

(I actually know of one fellow who would gather up retired seniors, and have 6 of them doing a house with his supervision and night time. Paid them peanuts, undercut everyone.)


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

It's too easy to get distracted .... let's get back on point.

Where did the $3K figure come from? The GC? Well, the blame is all his - not the unions, not the governemnt, not the economy .... it's all on the guy who used the $3K figure.

Your answer is pretty simple: You either say 'yes' or you say 'no.' You want me to wire a house for $3000? No thanks, I'll Pass. You know someone who will? Good for you, I wish you both well. You calculated it, etc? Well, feel free to do it yourself. Good luck.

Of course, you could just bust up in laughter, and say 'pull the other one! It's got bells! 

If the guy gets mad, it's because he knows he's been caught.

Well, he might ask, how much then? Well, let's see the prints, and I'll give you a price. A total, all inclusive, 'out-the-door price. My price, btw, includes some obligations on YOUR part - things like a toilet, trash removal, a secure site, etc. You can't provide those, I'll charge you more.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Amish Electrician said:


> ..........Your answer is pretty simple: You either say 'yes' or you say 'no.' You want me to wire a house for $3000? No thanks, I'll Pass. You know someone who will? Good for you, I wish you both well. ..........


Bingo. If someone called me and asked if I could wire a 1500ft² house for 3K, I flat-out say, "NO". If he thinks he can get someone who can, I'd say, "Call me when you need it to pass inspection."

At least 10 times a year I get a call like this, then about 2 of them call back a few months later asking if I can finish it up. Seems the guy they hired won't return their phone calls, emails, etc. And they want it finished for the amount still due the other guy. Of course, my price to finish it is more than what the other guy said he'd do the entire job for.

Naturally, they bitch and moan and cry.... and complain I'm taking advantage of them. No.. "It's the guy _you hired_ who's taken advantage of you!" He now has $2500 of you money, has done the cheap and easy part of the job, and no way in he11 am I gonna buy devices, AFCI breakers, combo smokes and a truckload of can trims/lamps, install it all, and _assume the legal liability_ for the entire job for a measly $500.


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## Davethewave (Jan 6, 2012)

I put a price together for a seven unit project. $64,000.00 for a repeat contractor. A big company came in with cheap south of the border labor from over three hours away and did the project for $42,000.00. I was given a chance to match. NO FN WAY. AFCI breakers, tamper resistant GFCI's and receptacles, carbon detectors, and wire around $85.00 a roll. What's left for me..... The liability. No tiki no laundry.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Just my two cents here, I've gotta get to bed)..

In Florida, we do things CHEAP!!. Not my fault its a trait they started way before my time. It is probably the lowest wage/pay scale I have seen, we do however make it up somewhat in volume. Most guys up north do 10 houses a year where we do 60-70 easy here, but cheaper. That being said I would not even entertain the notion of wiring 15k sf house for 3k. I do homes that are by custom (110k range) to the most simple tract homes and my base bid is 7.5k. You still need all the essentials and they will cost about the same regardless of the house size. 2 S/A kitchen ckt,range,micro,ref,etc.etc..etc.and a service as well
These are base costs regardless the size of the home.an AFCI breaker doesn't cost any less because the house is smaller.
In my opinion 3k is somebody playing you. I have been as low as $4 a sf before to get a job but realized I had 30 homes just like them to follow, sure the profit margin is lower than I like but 3k profitx30 homes in 150 or so days is still 90k profit.
These are as cheap as they get though
e.g. 1400sf X $4 =$5600 (automatically rolls to 7500). I look at this as a one day rough in (sometimes 1.5 days) and 1 day trimout I provide no lighting.
At 1400 sf (average)- I have about $2200 material..about 400 labor..with a 1900 profit for a day (or so)work. THAT'S NOT MUCH, because there is no overhead,vehicles, etc...etc.. Involved in this equation as I have never gone that deep into it. Soto think you would get out with your hide at 3k is silly IMO..


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## CTC Electrical (Jan 5, 2013)

Amish Electrician said:


> Your answer is pretty simple: You either say 'yes' or you say 'no.' You want me to wire a house for $3000? No thanks, I'll Pass.


I agree. :thumbsup: 

The GC's that are always looking for new subs are usually the ones that try to get you to work for nothing.


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

If you do it, double up on extras......


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

LegacyofTroy said:


> If you do it, double up on extras......


What I see from the low ballets here is 10x on change orders. A $150 switch is added at $1500. I hear a lot of "sure wish I had hired you" sorry too late now.


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