# Sump Pumps, GFCI required??



## Eddie702

I have 2 sump pumps to wire in a school. I have been searching the code book The question is are GFCIs required for sump pumps? I am thinking they are not since I can't seem to find it but something is bothering me. I seem to recall a change about sump pumps and GFCI.

Thanks'
Ed


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## nolabama

I've never seen one on a GFCI but then again I have worked in some real trashy places...


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## joebanana

There is no NEC requirement for GFCI protection for sump pumps.


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## Sblk55

You would think that a sump pump would be the classic application for GFCI, but most if not all sump pumps will not work on a GFCI


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## MTW

Not directly related, but I recently wire an elevator and was asked by the Otis installation mechanic to remove the GFCI I installed for the sump pump in the elevator pit. The NEC does not require GFCI protection in this case as long as a single outlet is used.


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## Mulder

Sblk55 said:


> You would think that a sump pump would be the classic application for GFCI, but most if not all sump pumps will not work on a GFCI


Almost all of the residential grade sump pumps I have seen require GFCI protection per the installation instructions.


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## MTW

Mulder said:


> Almost all of the residential grade sump pumps I have seen require GFCI protection per the installation instructions.


I ignore those instructions.


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## frenchelectrican

Mulder said:


> Almost all of the residential grade sump pumps I have seen require GFCI protection per the installation instructions.


Ya but some case the state / local codes may override the installation instructions so just be aware of it.


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## manchestersparky

The requirement would be the location of the receptacle. If the location requires receptacles to be GFCI then you have no choice


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## Mulder

manchestersparky said:


> The requirement would be the location of the receptacle. If the location requires receptacles to be GFCI then you have no choice


The manufacturers instructions can also require GFCI protection regardless of the location of the receptacle per 110.3(B).


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## telsa

I'd worry much more about owner notification should the sump pump lose power.

A single event can cost the owner many thousands -- and many precious possessions.


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## brian john

manchestersparky said:


> The requirement would be the location of the receptacle. If the location requires receptacles to be GFCI then you have no choice


You always have a choice might be against the listing or rule but it is still your choice.


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## Mulder

telsa said:


> I'd worry much more about owner notification should the sump pump lose power.
> 
> A single event can cost the owner many thousands -- and many precious possessions.


A single event can cost someone there life, which GFCI protection could prevent. Possessions can be replaced.


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## brian john

Mulder said:


> A single event can cost someone there life, which GFCI protection could prevent. Possessions can be replaced.


Ever been through a basement flood?


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## Mulder

brian john said:


> Ever been through a basement flood?


No. I also have never lost somebody close to me due to electric shock. But if I had to choose between the two.......


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## splatz

Mulder said:


> A single event can cost someone there life, which GFCI protection could prevent. Possessions can be replaced.


I think @telsa 's point is, if you monitor and alarm the power to the pump (due to GFCI trip or otherwise) you can have your cake and eat it too. Nobody getting zapped and no basement getting flooded.


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## lighterup

telsa said:


> I'd worry much more about owner notification should the sump pump lose power.
> 
> A single event can cost the owner many thousands -- and many precious possessions.


When Ohio first went to the 2014 code , the AHJ's started to 
require everything in a residential basement , with the
exception of security alarm power , to be gfci ...and yes that
included sump pumps....and yes EC's went kicking & screaming.

Then spring hit and came our version of _the rain forest rainy 
season_ and gfci's started tripping and basements flooded
and on one of my new construction jobs , a basement flooded
where the HO running his own build had all kinds
of personal tools , materials set up ....Ohhhh s**t did that guy
f-ing go off on me.

Threw me off the job , threatened to sue me called me every
name in the book...but I simply had my attorney contact him
with the current code , I contacted my insurance with a copy
of his letter to me and told them about the situation which they
sent an claims rep out to investigate.

It turned out he did his own drain tiles & pipe out to the
road but did not install a trap..:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
so he was denied any money , besides I was following the 
code for 120 volt outlet receptacles in the basement.

Ohio must have really been taken to task by the insurance
agencies cause within months , the legislature amended 
our Residential code to allow sump pumps to be non gfci
as long as electricians put a gfci outlet receptacle within 
6 ' of the sump pump outlet.


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## Eddie702

Yeah, I thought I read where sump pumps were now required to be on GFCI but apparently that is strictly a residential requirement that's what threw me off.

The pumps I am doing in a school I checked the pumps and there is no requirement for GFCI in the pump paperwork or listing. In addition the school dept's electrician doesn't want them. After seeing the ground water coming in I agree.

Just a side note, This school is about 75 years old. They have 1 existing sump pump. Always had some ground water but just seepage, never a flood.

About 2 years ago that all changed and the boiler room started flooding. It's relentless. When I saw it I would have suspected a nearby water main break. When the pit for the new pumps was dug last week we had the city water dept out and they shut down the water to the building. After several hours no change in water flow. They also tested the water and found no chlorine which they said they would have found if it was a water main break, so it just looks like ground water. I suggested they call in Poland Springs or Disani!

They built a new Community Center next to the school a few years back. Looks like maybe they altered the underground river.

The other part of this story was It's the first time I went back to this job since 1976. In 76 I wired the "new" oil burners in this boiler room. 1 of them is still their but not operational. 42 years, where did the time go?


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