# self grounding receptacles



## donselec (May 7, 2011)

that dont make much sense...redundant grounding would be a good thing to me.
jmo....


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

If you have a copy of the NEC, which I would hope a master electrician would, look in the index for "Receptacles, Grounding type"

No idea about the NYC thing. Who did you hear this from?


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## steeler1029 (Jan 5, 2013)

A Friend of mine was telling me he recieved a violation for this i was just wondering if the other inspectors are picking this up


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Never heard of it, but then again I'm not up on NYC amendments. Sound like BS to me.

Anyone?


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

steeler1029 said:


> I heard it was a violation to ground the receptacle to the box when using a self grounding receptacle in new york city ,does anyone know if this is true and what is the nec code on it


It is only redundant if the device is attached directly to the grounded box itself. Once there is a plaster ring or raised device cover all bets are off. They are not effectively grounded by the 8-32 screws holding them in place unless rated otherwise. -2008 NEC 250.146(a)


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

That's sarcasm...right?

edit to your edit: Your reference is to "Surface Mount Boxes" and regular receptacles.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Deep Cover said:


> That's sarcasm...right?
> 
> edit to your edit: Your reference is to "Surface Mount Boxes" and regular receptacles.


I don't follow your line of thinking. If you have a receptacle, self grounding or not, mounted to a plaster ring on a box roughed in behind drywall or a raised cover on surface mounted box, it must be grounded with a ECG. The screws attaching the ring or raised cover to the box are not suitable to serve as the grounding path unless so rated. So, putting a ground tail on a self grounding receptacle is not always redundant.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

btharmy said:


> I don't follow your line of thinking. If you have a receptacle, self grounding or not, mounted to a plaster ring on a box roughed in behind drywall or a raised cover on surface mounted box, it must be grounded with a ECG. The screws attaching the ring or raised cover to the box are not suitable to serve as the grounding path unless so rated. So, putting a ground tail on a self grounding receptacle is not always redundant.


What does Self grounding mean?!


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

btharmy said:


> I don't follow your line of thinking. If you have a receptacle, self grounding or not, mounted to a plaster ring on a box roughed in behind drywall or a raised cover on surface mounted box, it must be grounded with a ECG. The screws attaching the ring or raised cover to the box are not suitable to serve as the grounding path unless so rated. So, putting a ground tail on a self grounding receptacle is not always redundant.


If the 8-32 screws on a 4 sq box are not listed to be used as an effective grounding path, then the blank cover/plaster ring would not be grounded unless a separate bonding jumper were attached to the cover.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Deep Cover said:


> If the 8-32 screws on a 4 sq box are not listed to be used as an effective grounding path, then the blank cover/plaster ring would not be grounded unless a separate bonding jumper were attached to the cover.


I agree entirely. I didn't say it made sense. It doesn't in my opinion. But the inspector usually doesn't ask for my opinion. Neither does the NEC committee. 

(A) Surface-Mounted Box. Where the box is mounted on the surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke and the box or a contact yoke or device that complies with 250.146(B) shall be permitted to ground the receptacle to the box. At least one of the insulating washers shall be removed from receptacles that do not have a contact yoke or device that complies with 250.146(B) to ensure direct metal-to-metal contact. This provision shall not apply to cover-mounted receptacles unless the box and cover combination are listed as providing satisfactory ground continuity between the box and the receptacle. A listed exposed work cover shall be permitted to be the grounding and bonding means when (1) the device is attached to the cover with at least two fasteners that are permanent (such as a rivet) or have a thread locking or screw locking means and (2) when the cover mounting holes are located on a flat non-raised portion of the cover.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

> ...A listed exposed work cover shall be permitted to be the grounding and bonding means when (1) the device is attached to the cover with at least two fasteners that are permanent (such as a rivet) or have a thread locking or screw locking means and (2) when the cover mounting holes are located on a flat non-raised portion of the cover.


 I'm trying to remember the last time I bought an RS cover that didn't meet those requirements.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

btharmy said:


> I agree entirely. I didn't say it made sense. It doesn't in my opinion. But the inspector usually doesn't ask for my opinion. Neither does the NEC committee.
> 
> (A) Surface-Mounted Box. Where the box is mounted on the surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke and the box or a contact yoke or device that complies with 250.146(B) shall be permitted to ground the receptacle to the box. At least one of the insulating washers shall be removed from receptacles that do not have a contact yoke or device that complies with 250.146(B) to ensure direct metal-to-metal contact. This provision shall not apply to cover-mounted receptacles unless the box and cover combination are listed as providing satisfactory ground continuity between the box and the receptacle. A listed exposed work cover shall be permitted to be the grounding and bonding means when (1) the device is attached to the cover with at least two fasteners that are permanent(such as a rivet) or have a thread locking or screw locking means and (2) when the cover mounting holes are located on a flat non-raised portion of the cover.


You keep citing this code article. It does not apply. Look at the title. "Surface-Mounted Boxes". A 4 sq with a plaster ring, inside a wall is not surface mounted. If the title was "Surface-Type Boxes", you may have an argument.

edit: The first sentence says it all...


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## Jim Metzler (Feb 27, 2017)

*Self Grounding Receptacles*



steeler1029 said:


> I heard it was a violation to ground the receptacle to the box when using a self grounding receptacle in new york city ,does anyone know if this is true and what is the nec code on it


It is not a violation if installed in accordance with subsection 250.146(A-D). However, NYC inspectors are writing violations in spite of this. I wrote to the Electrical Code Team NYC Department of Buildings [email protected] and received written confirmation that it is not a violation. 

Jim Metzler


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