# class 1 division 1 hazardous location



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Need some help here. Got a job where I need to wire an outlet for a 110v motor. The motor will be in a room where there is a diesel generator and some storage of diesel. The pump will serve(i assume) as a means to transfer fuel in this room. Is this a location where I need to use rigid or imc and class 1 rated devices? There is already existing emt in this room. There is also strip lights in here as well. It doesn't seem like there are any class1 wiring methods in place. What would you do?


 I guess your code book is not handy or you are just lazy?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> I guess your code book is not handy or you are just lazy?


Wow dude, didnt expect that from you. I guess I wanted a little clarification.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> I guess your code book is not handy or you are just lazy?


That sounds like something REWIRE would say......


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Wow dude, didnt expect that from you. I guess I wanted a little clarification.


 sorry Nola, I had a bad day. Props to you. I'm an ass.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> That sounds like something REWIRE would say......


 Hey! watch that!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Hey! watch that!


 
Just wanted to snap you out of it :laughing:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> sorry Nola, I had a bad day. Props to you. I'm an ass.


Not a big deal. Just unsure if this is considered a class 1 location. If it is, then there is a bunch of bs that I haven't dealt with before and not sure of myself.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I just did some work in a airplane hanger and had to use GFI outlets and either MC or EMT


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> I just did some work in a airplane hanger and had to use GFI outlets and either MC or EMT


What location was that classified as?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

sounds like class 1 div.2...looks like rigid...


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Need some help here. Got a job where I need to wire an outlet for a 110v motor. The motor will be in a room where there is a diesel generator and some storage of diesel. The pump will serve(i assume) as a means to transfer fuel in this room. Is this a location where I need to use rigid or imc and class 1 rated devices? There is already existing emt in this room. There is also strip lights in here as well. It doesn't seem like there are any class1 wiring methods in place. What would you do?


 I bet that emt was there already or it didn't get inspected once that diesal tankwas there


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> What location was that classified as?


I used this section, but there was no "storage" of fuels


*
513.7 Wiring and Equipment Not Installed in Class I
Locations.
(A) Fixed Wiring.​*​​​​All fixed wiring in a hangar but not
installed in a Class I location as classified in 513.3 shall be
installed in metal raceways or shall be Type MI, TC, or MC
cable.​
_Exception: Wiring in unclassified locations, as described
in 513.3(D), shall be permitted to be any suitable type​wiring method recognized in Chapter 3.
_


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> I bet that emt was there already or it didn't get inspected once that diesal tankwas there


The generator for the hotel is in there. I've never installed rigid and class 1 fittings and box and such. I'm thinking of staying away from this one.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> sounds like class 1 div.2...looks like rigid...


Now that I think about it, it may be this. It says I can use mc with listed fittings.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> The generator for the hotel is in there. I've never installed rigid and class 1 fittings and box and such. I'm thinking of staying away from this one.


 It's a sinch, don't turn it down! I'd jump all over that. It's just industrial stuff. Run rigid and you'll be fine; plus, who want to turn away that customer? Future work down the road type of thing....?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> It's a sinch, don't turn it down! I'd jump all over that. It's just industrial stuff. Run rigid and you'll be fine; plus, who want to turn away that customer? Future work down the road type of thing....?


Yeah, thats why I want to do it. I've never installed any work like this before. Need to figure out what kind of enclosures are out there for this stuff.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Yeah, thats why I want to do it. I've never installed any work like this before. Need to figure out what kind of enclosures are out there for this stuff.


 What is it Bob the Builder says?: "We can build it! Yes we can!"


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

The moreI read, seems like it isn't even my job to identify the location. It should be clearly marked by a fire marshall or building inspector.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Need some help here. Got a job where I need to wire an outlet for a 110v motor. The motor will be in a room where there is a diesel generator and some storage of diesel. The pump will serve(i assume) as a means to transfer fuel in this room. Is this a location where I need to use rigid or imc and class 1 rated devices? There is already existing emt in this room. There is also strip lights in here as well. It doesn't seem like there are any class1 wiring methods in place. What would you do?


Take the job and tell them the entire room has to be redone to C1D1 Specs if they plan on storing and transferring fuel in there.

:thumbsup:


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## I Conduit (May 4, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> The moreI read, seems like it isn't even my job to identify the location. It should be clearly marked by a fire marshall or building inspector.


Your on the right track. The area where you will be working should be "classified" by someone with the proper credentials to do so. Once you get that info you can proceed from there. I did a diesel fuel station for a trucking company and none of it was c1d1 area, no sealoffs required.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Take the job and tell them the entire room has to be redone to C1D1 Specs if they plan on storing and transferring fuel in there.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I like this idea. I was discussing this with another guy. After further review, I believe that it is a c1d1 location. But, I'm not "qualified" to say this. I'm going to call the engineering guy about it. This is in a large hotel downtown, so I kinda want to do it right. I 'd hate to burn down a 100 million dollar hotel:jester:


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## MatticksInd (Dec 3, 2009)

*Hazardous Location*

We might be abel to help, we are in the buisness of Hazardous loactions providing a/c, motors, ventilation systems and more to the industry.

Philip Matticks
Matticks Industries Inc
www.matticks.com
[email protected]


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

diesel fuel is not class one division one

diesel is not a volatile fuel - it is a fuel oil - its hard enough to light with a match

gasoline/jet fuel/and the like is a volatile fuel


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

That is probably because diesel is not classified as explosive. At normal temperatures, diesel will not ignite even if you throw a lighted match into a bucket full. There are no vapors like gasoline.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

nolabama said:


> diesel fuel is not class one division one
> 
> diesel is not a volatile fuel - it is a fuel oil - its hard enough to light with a match
> 
> gasoline/jet fuel/and the like is a volatile fuel


Well, I don't know that. I think I should call someone and find out.


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## robertwilber (Jan 22, 2007)

Let's not get carried away here.
You don't need explosion-proof ANYTHING for an oil furnace or boiler. Why would you need it for a diesel gen?
Like the man said, there are no combustible fumes nor flammable nor combustible liquid-produced vapors. It isn't C1D1. It isn't C anything!
But the safety guy at the hotel will have to respect your consideration.

...anyway, you oughta be proud to be considered so SPECIAL as to be trusted enough to have a shot at burning down a $100,000,000 hotel...:whistling2:


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

Glad to know about Diesel fuel storage now....it makes sense, I was not aware.



robertwilber said:


> ...anyway, you oughta be proud to be considered so SPECIAL as to be trusted enough to have a shot at burning down a $100,000,000 hotel...:whistling2:


HAHA....I like the way you think. :thumbsup:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

robertwilber said:


> Let's not get carried away here.
> You don't need explosion-proof ANYTHING for an oil furnace or boiler. Why would you need it for a diesel gen?
> Like the man said, there are no combustible fumes nor flammable nor combustible liquid-produced vapors. It isn't C1D1. It isn't C anything!
> But the safety guy at the hotel will have to respect your consideration.
> ...


Talked to a few inspectors today, they say IT IS c1d1 location. They said that b/c they are storing and transferring diesel fuel that is a hazardous location.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok, so who would know the answer to this? The electrical inspectors seem to think it is a c1d1. Who's responsibility is it to classify it? Building dept? Fire Dept?


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## robertwilber (Jan 22, 2007)

The AHJ, but look at this:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=115853&highlight=diesel+fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by *rzlzb5107*  
_There is a *fuel* pump supplying *diesel* *fuel* from storage tank located outside to emergency generators (hospital). The pump is located in a separate room inside the building. Is there any requirement for hazardous classification of this room (Class I Div. 2?)_
--------------------------------------- 
I’m surprised someone else hasn’t already jumped on this one. As such materials are designated by NFPA 30, the _Flammable and Combustible Liquids Code_, *diesel* is _combustible_ rather than _flammable_. That means it has a flash point above 100°F and, unless you have reason to believe it will be routinely stored or handled at or above its flash-point, it may be ignored as a potential cause for Classifying a location. Note: _routinely_ doesn't necessarily mean _commonly_ or _regularly_, but simply that it wouldn't be an unusual event.

Generally, *diesel* has a flash point around 125°F or higher. Occasionally, it may be in a blend of fuels that has flammable properties; so it is still a good idea to review the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for the *fuel*.

_"Bob"
_Robert B. Alexander, P.E.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Good link. Thanks. I tend to believe the guys on this forum or mh.com.


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## shasta (Dec 6, 2009)

*Dubious, at best.*

If the owner can't provide an Area Classification drawing (if applicable)wet-stamped by a registered electrical engineer, and if said drawing isn't current and up-to-date down to the last detail.... then he's ignorant plus cheap.

The area needs to be defined as either hazardous or non-hazardous by someone suitable to the AHJ. Someone with the liability insurance and credentials to back up their judgements.

For example, who's specing the motor? Will it be suitable for the location?

IMO, this should be an engineered installatiion; not design-build. Respectfully, with no experience in hazardous locations or RMC wiring methods, you'd be taking on waaayyy too much liabilty.


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## Static Design (Nov 21, 2009)

I would consider this a Class 1 division 1.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)




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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

wildleg said:


>


What do you want a picture of? Its a room with a barrel of diesel fuel and a generator.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Static Design said:


> I would consider this a Class 1 division 1.


Based on what?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

shasta said:


> If the owner can't provide an Area Classification drawing (if applicable)wet-stamped by a registered electrical engineer, and if said drawing isn't current and up-to-date down to the last detail.... then he's ignorant plus cheap.
> 
> The area needs to be defined as either hazardous or non-hazardous by someone suitable to the AHJ. Someone with the liability insurance and credentials to back up their judgements.
> 
> ...


How? I bid it to be wired based on c1d1 wiring methods. I want to know what it actually defined as.


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## Static Design (Nov 21, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Based on what?



Diesel is still a chemical, where do you normally classified all other chemicals in normal operating conditions? I guess you could argue d2 since storage is an issue.


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

Good information Bob. The problem is most inspectors assume all fuels are combustable. Unless you can show them the NFPA code as refered to by Bob, They will try to hold you to C1, D1 or D2. Is is best to keep this informaltion with you because you will probably need it the next time you do an electrical installation on a diesel tank or pump. But remember what the code says about tempuratures above 125 degrees. Arizona, you may want to be careful!
David Channell Service Station Electric Inc.


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## shasta (Dec 6, 2009)

*How? let me count*

Well, w/ near 40 yrs in refinery work, I'll mention Div 1 areas are quite scarce. Div 1 is open, ignitable material exposed typically to air.

Secondly, it's not up to the installer to determine Area Class; it's up to the owner and/or his/her authority. By bidding a Div 1 install w/o an Area Class drawing... I dunno. Lots of assumptions being made. In like the mentioned motor is listed as suitable for Div 1.

Doing a Div 1 install in an area that doesn't require it is ripping off the customer.

My non-actionable guess is at worst, Div 2. Hazard exists only in the event of equipment failure; not under normal operating conditions that are maintained and supervised.


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm wiring a similar installation; an outside diesel tank and pump on a small skid to fuel tractors. The motor is explosion proof, and the skid comes with a tag stating all wiring needs to be Class 1 Group D.

As stated before diesel is combustible, not flammable. My thought is the manufacturer put the Class 1 group D designation on because they have no idea what will actually be used on the skid. 

I don't see the skid as a hazardous location at all but since the manufacturer's instructions say the wiring should be Class I Group D, is that how I should do it?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

shasta said:


> Well, w/ near 40 yrs in refinery work, I'll mention Div 1 areas are quite scarce. Div 1 is open, ignitable material exposed typically to air.
> 
> Secondly, it's not up to the installer to determine Area Class; it's up to the owner and/or his/her authority. By bidding a Div 1 install w/o an Area Class drawing... I dunno. Lots of assumptions being made. In like the mentioned motor is listed as suitable for Div 1.
> 
> ...



Maybe. But, I'm trying to make the proper install. I seriously doubt that the motor that he is providing is a class1 suitable motor. The room isn't classified, again not my fault. I tend to believe the guys on here that diesel is not flammable. but combustible.


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

Hello Shasta! I have 25 years experience in Gas Stations. For a long time the plans for sites with diesel fuel were treated just like gasoline. I don't know if the architechs did'nt know any better or if they thought that someday gasoline would be used instead of diesel. When we finally began to get plans for diesel sites that did not treat it as class 1 div. 1 we were surprised and when we asked, we were told that diesel is not classified like gasoline, and does not require seal off's and explosion proof fittings or boxes. Most of the inspectors around No. Calif seem to think it should be treated just like gasoline. I now leave it up to the electrical engineer who designed the plans to make the determination. 
PS. Regarding gas stations, we still treat the diesel tank the same as gasoline because it is usually in close proximity to gasoline and owners keep changing things and may put gasoline in that tank next year.
David


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