# Brown/Orange/Yellow conductors



## hotwire480 (Jan 10, 2015)

I recently used #12 THHN Brown/Orange/Yellow colored conductors on 120 volt single phase branch circuits to feed some exhaust fans. I paired each circuit with it's own neutral. The inspector said the NEC doesn't allowed to use Brown/Orange/Yellow on 120 volt branch circuits. The inspector couldn't give me any reference to the code article. I have looked in the NEC but I cannot find any code article which says this cannot be done. Can someone point me to a particular code article which this is not allowed.

Thanks
Hotwire480


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## ktny (Jan 21, 2020)

as for my knowledge the inspector is technically incorrect, in the code they only talk about the grounding conductor to be green, the grounded conductor to be white, and for a bastards leg to be orange. I believe it is just common electric workmanship that we pull boy colors for 480v circuits. however it may just be more worth the trouble to just set some boxes and change your colors at termination to black and white to please the inspector instead of questioning and pissing him off


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

hotwire480 said:


> I recently used #12 THHN Brown/Orange/Yellow colored conductors on 120 volt single phase branch circuits to feed some exhaust fans. I paired each circuit with it's own neutral. The inspector said the NEC doesn't allowed to use Brown/Orange/Yellow on 120 volt branch circuits. The inspector couldn't give me any reference to the code article. I have looked in the NEC but I cannot find any code article which
> says this cannot be done. Can someone point me to a particular code article which this is not allowed.
> 
> Thanks
> Hotwire480


 There is no specific purpose for Brown Orange yellow in NEC. However the NEC does say you have to identify your different voltages if more than one are present. It is very common for someone to use those colors to identify 480 V. If someone in that same building has already identified Brown, Orange, Yellow for 480 then it could be a problem. Orange is identified for use as a high leg in a Delta system. But it doesn't say you can't use it for other circuits. White,green ,and Gray(?) are the only colors I know of that can not be used for ungrounded conductors.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

215.12(C) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors. Ungrounded
conductors shall be identified in accordance with 215.12(C)(1)
or (C)(2), as applicable.
(1) Feeders Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage
System. Where the premises wiring system has feeders
supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each
ungrounded conductor of a feeder shall be identified by phase
or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice
points in compliance with 215.12(C)(1)(a) and (b).
(a) Means of Identification. The means of identification
shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking
tape, tagging, or other approved means.

200.6 Means of Identifying Grounded Conductors.
(A) Sizes 6 AWG or Smaller. An insulated grounded conduc‐
tor of 6 AWG or smaller shall be identified by one of the follow‐
ing means:
(1) A continuous white outer finish.
(2) A continuous gray outer finish.
(3) Three continuous white or gray stripes along the conduc‐
tor's entire length on other than green insulation.

250.119 Identification of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
Unless required elsewhere in this Code, equipment grounding
conductors shall be permitted to be bare, covered, or insulated.
Individually covered or insulated equipment grounding
conductors shall have a continuous outer finish that is either
green or green with one or more yellow stripes except as
permitted in this section. Conductors with insulation or indi‐
vidual covering that is green, green with one or more yellow
stripes, or otherwise identified as permitted by this section shall
not be used for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Are people putting a sticker on the panel identifying the color coding used throughout the building?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> Are people putting a sticker on the panel identifying the color coding used throughout the building?


Only if there is more than one system present.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Electrons don't care how copper dresses.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Why would you use those colors for 120v.? What colors were already used in that panel? That's a red flag for inspectors, it indicates that you don't have any idea of what you're doing. Especially if it's single phase.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

CoolWill said:


> Electrons don't care how copper dresses.


But, apparently inspectors do.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

joebanana said:


> But, apparently inspectors do.


They should worry about real issues.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

NFPA 79 mentions recommended colors for machines.

This is not Code But it is where some get the idea that you have to use these colors.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Long ago I used RED, brown, orange, yellow for fire alarm as per spec. Never seen it again although I did use up the remaining b,o,y wire as switch legs on other jobs.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

hotwire480 said:


> I recently used #12 THHN Brown/Orange/Yellow colored conductors on 120 volt single phase branch circuits to feed some exhaust fans. I paired each circuit with it's own neutral. The inspector said the NEC doesn't allowed to use Brown/Orange/Yellow on 120 volt branch circuits. The inspector couldn't give me any reference to the code article. I have looked in the NEC but I cannot find any code article which says this cannot be done. Can someone point me to a particular code article which this is not allowed.
> 
> Thanks
> Hotwire480


Who does that?
Why would you do that?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

just the cowboy said:


> NFPA 79 mentions recommended colors for machines.
> 
> This is not Code But it is where some get the idea that you have to use these colors.


In most of the factories I've worked in, all power wires are black, and control are red.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

To the OP: what you did is -- strictly speaking -- Code compliant.

However, as a practical matter, it's completely impractical.

Purchase the wire colors that the trade expects -- and stop such foolishness.

You can always burn off the B O Y further on down the line. They don't exactly spoil, do they?


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

hotwire480 said:


> I recently used #12 THHN Brown/Orange/Yellow colored conductors on 120 volt single phase branch circuits to feed some exhaust fans. I paired each circuit with it's own neutral. The inspector said the NEC doesn't allowed to use Brown/Orange/Yellow on 120 volt branch circuits. The inspector couldn't give me any reference to the code article. I have looked in the NEC but I cannot find any code article which says this cannot be done. Can someone point me to a particular code article which this is not allowed.
> 
> Thanks
> Hotwire480


Buy a wire label printer. You are not doing anyone a favor in the future running rainbow colors to identify a circuit.


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

It is in code. I will find it. I feel the colors mentioned are accepted by electricians, but not specified in code

Most facilities where 480 three phase use BOY Brown, Orange Yellow as the phase conductors. Many also have present lower voltage three phase. Black Red & blue are my choice for lower voltage. An inspector once specified orange as the odd leg in three phase Delta. I'm uncomfortable with using orange for both 480 & 240. I choose blue for lower voltage. Code says I have to post color code in the electrical room. 

My opinion is BOY are 480, Bla, R Blu are 240 or 208. Bla R are 240 single phase. Bla W are 120. I do not believe code specifies that. In installations I've seen the only variable is 240 V three phase orange, or blue might be used. Throughout a facility be consistent, and post the choice on a wall.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Personally, I use pink for hot .... Just kinda stands out there :biggrin:


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Is it a code violation to use Brown Orange Yellow on 120/240? No. 

Neither is using a brown plate on a white device, but why would you?
What message does it project?


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Willie B said:


> It is in code. I will find it. I feel the colors mentioned are accepted by electricians, but not specified in code
> 
> Most facilities where 480 three phase use BOY Brown, Orange Yellow as the phase conductors. Many also have present lower voltage three phase. Black Red & blue are my choice for lower voltage. An inspector once specified orange as the odd leg in three phase Delta. I'm uncomfortable with using orange for both 480 & 240. I choose blue for lower voltage. Code says I have to post color code in the electrical room.
> 
> My opinion is BOY are 480, Bla, R Blu are 240 or 208. Bla R are 240 single phase. Bla W are 120. I do not believe code specifies that. In installations I've seen the only variable is 240 V three phase orange, or blue might be used. Throughout a facility be consistent, and post the choice on a wall.


The code specifies that orange be used on delta high legs, but only where the grounded conductor is present. If there's no white,wire, orange isn't required. Just for fun, I went to brown, purple, yellow for 480.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I hate stupid inspectors. Mostly because they think they are right and they are beyond reproach. 

Next time just use all orange wires for all the ungrounded conductors. Really throw him off his frucking high horse.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> Who does that?
> Why would you do that?


I am curious why too

Orange - brown - yellow wire on clearance at Lowes
Orange - brown - yellow wire shorts spotted at scrap yard 
Orange - brown - yellow wire is what the guy on craigslist stole 
Orange - brown - yellow wire is what I took home from work


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

splatz said:


> I am curious why too
> 
> Orange - brown - yellow wire on clearance at Lowes
> Orange - brown - yellow wire shorts spotted at scrap yard
> ...


I once connected all the 120 volt sconces on the outside of a building using 480 colors... Because initially they were going to be 277 volt. After installing a mile of wire in conduits all over, it wasn't coming back out.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

emtnut said:


> Personally, I use pink for hot .... Just kinda stands out there :biggrin:




I use pink and violet for switch legs and travelers in 3 phase systems.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

five.five-six said:


> I use pink and violet for switch legs and travelers in 3 phase systems.


What colors do you use for switch legs and travelers in single phase systems?


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

dronai said:


> In most of the factories I've worked in, all power wires are black, and control are red.


Correct my screw up. That's what happens when we get older, hands type before we think.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

CoolWill said:


> What colors do you use for switch legs and travelers in single phase systems?


Mostly those are in NM but if I have a conduit I’ll use pink and violet or blue or BOY, just whatever I have.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

A while back ago my boss, an Non electrician guy, headed an interview panel for a new spark position. They had several people on it and a list of 10 questions. They also had the required answers. 
Here is a sample. 
Q: Per the NEC, What color is required to be used on 3 phase 208 system ungrounded wires. 
A: B-R-B

Q: What color is the green ground screw. 
A: Depends on application. 

My boss showed me the questions after telling me they didn’t hire anyone. Seemed no one could answer those and other questions posed. 
I asked him were in gods name did they get these and other stupid questions. I shook my head and tossed the paper on his desk and walked out. 

Now I’m not the sharpest pencil in the box. But man I seem to be the brightest bulb around here some days.


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## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

I got sent out to a union job and the foreman was deciding on which crew he was going to place me. There was a crew wiring panels and a crew running pipe. He asks "what color wire is a 10?" I'm thinking he means 10 AWG wire so I say "any color you want." "Wrong!" he says and sends me to the piping crew. What he meant and wasn't literate enough to say was "What color wire should be landed on the number 10 breaker in a three-phase panel."

(The answer also varies by voltage.)


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Coppersmith said:


> I got sent out to a union job and the foreman was deciding on which crew he was going to place me. There was a crew wiring panels and a crew running pipe. He asks "what color wire is a 10?" I'm thinking he means 10 AWG wire so I say any color you want. "Wrong!" he says and sends me to the piping crew. What he meant and wasn't literate enough to say was "What color wire should be landed on the number 10 breaker in a three-phase panel."


And what color did “He” want landed?
Same as circuit 4 & 16 right.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> And what color did “He” want landed?
> Same as circuit 4 & 16 right.


 *Red ! * 

2,4,6 Black, red, blue 8,10,12 black red blue

or at 480V brown,orange yellow

You have to go with the running conduit group :surprise:


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

gpop said:


> Buy a wire label printer. You are not doing anyone a favor in the future running rainbow colors to identify a circuit.


I did that as an apprentice upgrading a machine. I thought it would be nice running blue to high pressure, red to low pressure, violet to start, orange to you get the idea. Guess who got to rewire the oven twice?

Cowboy


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Coppersmith said:


> I got sent out to a union job and the foreman was deciding on which crew he was going to place me. There was a crew wiring panels and a crew running pipe. He asks "what color wire is a 10?" I'm thinking he means 10 AWG wire so I say "any color you want." "Wrong!" he says and sends me to the piping crew. What he meant and wasn't literate enough to say was "What color wire should be landed on the number 10 breaker in a three-phase panel."
> 
> (The answer also varies by voltage.)



This is for construction type electricians, so different in factories


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

dronai said:


> *Red ! *
> 
> 2,4,6 Black, red, blue 8,10,12 black red blue
> 
> ...


LoL, I love my conduit as much as my Russian brides. 

So the answer is, same as the rest of the facility to keep it uniform. 

Some of our buildings here are older and everything 208 or 480 was phased B-R-B. 
It’s never a problem until someone from the outside installs new gear and changes colors because “it’s code”.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> LoL, I love my conduit as much as my Russian brides.
> 
> So the answer is, same as the rest of the facility to keep it uniform.
> 
> ...


We bump everything before, so it doesn't really matter


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## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

Wirenuting said:


> And what color did “He” want landed?


Well, I never got that answer from him but I assume red (120/277) or orange (277/480). He didn't specify the voltage of the panel.



Wirenuting said:


> Same as circuit 4 & 16 right.


Correct.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

five.five-six said:


> I use pink and violet for switch legs and travelers in 3 phase systems.


I like fuschia and lavender but it’s so difficult to find wire in fashionable colours.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

99cents said:


> I like fuschia and lavender but it’s so difficult to find wire in fashionable *colours*.


Colors !!!:vs_mad: Do you speak French ?


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> I did that as an apprentice upgrading a machine. I thought it would be nice running blue to high pressure, red to low pressure, violet to start, orange to you get the idea. Guess who got to rewire the oven twice?
> 
> Cowboy


One of my trainees did this. I asked him why.

"Because you can not see both ends so it saves having to use 2 people. One to pull the wire and the other to see which wire moves"


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

In the plant, I grew fond of yellow. Built several control panels with only yellow and white.
However. Every wire including white, had a number on it.
A number that would stay on for awhile.


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## mjbasford (Oct 2, 2016)

Wirenuting said:


> Q: Per the NEC, What color is required to be used on 3 phase 208 system ungrounded wires.
> A: B-R-B


Was this the answer y'all were looking for, or what you kept getting?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

mjbasford said:


> Was this the answer y'all were looking for, or what you kept getting?


That was the only aceptable answer they wanted.


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## mjbasford (Oct 2, 2016)

Wirenuting said:


> That was the only aceptable answer they wanted.


So..... They wanted dumb electricians? Or did I miss the point of your post?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> In the plant, I grew fond of yellow.


Yellow for me is an interlock wire colour...

Had a spec that DC was blue XLPE once - apparently it prevents electroendosmosis

Cheers
John


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> In the plant, I grew fond of yellow. Built several control panels with only yellow and white.
> However. Every wire including white, had a number on it.
> A number that would stay on for awhile.



:surprise:




Navyguy said:


> Yellow for me is an interlock wire colour...
> 
> Had a spec that DC was blue XLPE once - apparently it prevents electroendosmosis
> 
> ...



*Yellow indicates an outside power source, so if you switch the main disconnect switch off in the cabinet you are working, the yellow wire would still be energized !


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

mjbasford said:


> So..... They wanted dumb electricians? Or did I miss the point of your post?


They wanted qualified electricians.

Maybe if the applicants had stayed in a Holiday Inn Express they would have given the wrong answers. Then the bosses would have been dazzled by the brightness. 
Instead we hired a family member. He soon informed me that Ideal yellow pulling compound had been banned by everybody for use. Apparently it turns to concrete after a very short time.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

dronai said:


> *Red ! *
> 
> 2,4,6 Black, red, blue 8,10,12 black red blue
> 
> ...


Which is funny cuz I was about to say black, just to throw the Canuck card on the table.. lol Everything I've done up here is Red/Blk/Bl, or O/B/Y (when spec'd).


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> A while back ago my boss, an Non electrician guy, headed an interview panel for a new spark position. They had several people on it and a list of 10 questions. They also had the required answers.
> Here is a sample.
> Q: Per the NEC, What color is required to be used on 3 phase 208 system ungrounded wires.
> A: B-R-B
> ...



I actually had to count on my fingers LOL


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Signal1 said:


> Is it a code violation to use Brown Orange Yellow on 120/240? No.
> 
> Neither is using a brown plate on a white device, but why would you?
> What message does it project?


Funny you mentioned a brown plate on a white device. Years ago we had a customer with very bad eyesight and he like the two tone colors. He could see where the receptacles and switches were.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

dronai said:


> :surprise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Check the latest versions of NFPA-79 and UL508A. I’m certain both require orange wire for that purpose. Previous versions okay’d yelllow.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

bill39 said:


> Check the latest versions of NFPA-79 and UL508A. I’m certain both require orange wire for that purpose. Previous versions okay’d yelllow.


I read something about that. I couldn't find it in the actual text though


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## b-cap one (Dec 25, 2019)

I could have sworn that I had read in the 2005 code book that it stated b-o-y, but in a newer edition it changed to something different.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I believe the federal standard is 208/120 volts black - red - blue or 480/277 volts Yellow - brown - orange.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

It's probably not as bad as using Black Red & Blue on a 480 volt circuit but it's just not neat workmanship. The electrons don't care what color the wire is but as an electricians do. As a "temporary" hook up it's probably not as bad but for a permanent installation of branch circuits it sucks. Electricians have enough to battle with when trouble shooting. Using improper colors like that just makes it a bit more difficult for the next guy.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

I have found B,O,Y in 120-208 for home runs and B,R,B for switch legs and the reverse . Mostly in the Central Valley .


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## Derek S (Jun 19, 2018)

hotwire480 said:


> I recently used #12 THHN Brown/Orange/Yellow colored conductors on 120 volt single phase branch circuits to feed some exhaust fans. I paired each circuit with it's own neutral. The inspector said the NEC doesn't allowed to use Brown/Orange/Yellow on 120 volt branch circuits. The inspector couldn't give me any reference to the code article. I have looked in the NEC but I cannot find any code article which says this cannot be done. Can someone point me to a particular code article which this is not allowed.
> 
> Thanks
> Hotwire480





Technically, he is inaccurate. It is Inside Wireman Trade custom to utilize Black, Red, Blue & White Neutral for 208Y120 VAC circuits and Brown, Orange, Yellow & Gray Neutral for 480Y208 VAC. Nothing is specifically mentioned in the CODE other than coloring for the Grounded conductor & EGC. What ever you do, make sure any Electrician could come behind you and interpret what you did through marking, labeling, taping, etc. 



With all of that said, one thing I learned long ago...don't argue with the Inspector unless you're 100% sure you're right, especially if he can't immediately name a CODE reference...and even then, it's most likely not in your best interest to argue with them. Just be tactful and ask questions...that'll go much farther than calling them out.


Cheers!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Derek S said:


> With all of that said, one thing I learned long ago...don't argue with the Inspector unless you're 100% sure you're right, especially if he can't immediately name a CODE reference...and even then, it's most likely not in your best interest to argue with them. *Just be tactful and ask questions...that'll go much farther than calling them out.*
> 
> 
> Cheers!


Where's the fun in that?


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

Easy said:


> It's probably not as bad as using Black Red & Blue on a 480 volt circuit but it's just not neat workmanship. The electrons don't care what color the wire is but as an electricians do. As a "temporary" hook up it's probably not as bad but for a permanent installation of branch circuits it sucks. Electricians have enough to battle with when trouble shooting. Using improper colors like that just makes it a bit more difficult for the next guy.


You think that, until someone unaware you don't think it important dies. YOU will hope they don't track it back to you. 

Every day, every installation, color matters.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Willie B said:


> You think that, until someone unaware you don't think it important dies. YOU will hope they don't track it back to you.
> 
> Every day, every installation, color matters.



Three places almost nobody follows the color rules. Have you ever seen an industrial control panel that follows NFPA 79 color codes? I see one once in a while but they are very, very rare. Second one is 208-230 V three phase is supposed to be red black and blue but almost always it’s brown orange yellow. I see more 480 V in Canadian colors of red black blue than the other way around. Third place is DC is often not colored properly to the point where you can’t trust the colors on anything.

But 120/240? That’s something even Canadians and Americans can agree on.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Willie B said:


> You think that, until someone unaware you don't think it important dies. YOU will hope they don't track it back to you.
> 
> Every day, every installation, color matters.


Hook up a 3 phase submersible pump and you will soon learn that colors are suggestions.

Black, white, red are pretty standard 3 phase colors for 208-240-480 pumps. To make it more fun they sometimes use the same colors for thermal and seal detection so you look for the 3 big wires and ohm them just to be sure. 

I can honestly not think of one reason wrong color wires (excluding ground) would kill someone unless they were working them hot in which case that's probably there fault.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

paulengr said:


> Three places almost nobody follows the color rules. Have you ever seen an industrial control panel that follows NFPA 79 color codes? I see one once in a while but they are very, very rare. Second one is 208-230 V three phase is supposed to be red black and blue but almost always it’s brown orange yellow. I see more 480 V in Canadian colors of red black blue than the other way around. Third place is DC is often not colored properly to the point where you can’t trust the colors on anything.
> 
> But 120/240? That’s something even Canadians and Americans can agree on.


Working one today were all the dc is in red (both + and -)


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Willie B said:


> You think that, until someone unaware you don't think it important dies. YOU will hope they don't track it back to you.
> 
> Every day, every installation, color matters.


If you’re relying on wire color codes to protect you from death, then you better think twice about this trade. I don’t trust anyone’s color code system until I hit it with a meter or wiggy. In many legacy systems color meant something to someone at THAT time. At a local steel mill a city street was a line of demarcation where DC for the cranes were red+ and black- on one side and red- and black+ on the other. The men at that time understood that color on the upper end and lower end were reversed and color meant nothing. 
You don’t trust someone else to LOTO for you and shouldn’t trust customary wire colors for voltage.


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

We did a facility where they wanted to build wind turbines. We had three services:
480/277 Three phase Wye.
240/208/120 Three phase Delta with center taped phase.
240/120 Single phase. 

Inspector wanted BOY +grey 480/277
Black red orange for 240/208/120
Black Red White for single phase

I had worked in numerous buildings scattered in several small towns for the local phone company. Some we wired as new construction, others were other electricians. All used Delta, all used Black Red Blue White.

On this new building I preferred to avoid an orange conductor in the lower voltage three phase. Inspector allowed, but wanted the color code posted in the electrical room.

The three breaker panels were arranged across one wall in the electrical room, so ran lengthwise in the building parallel. At a glance from anywhere in the building one knew the voltage by the position on the ceiling.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I routinely use 2 yellows for switch loops inside conduit , or sometimes brown, or sometimes orange, when the system is three phase 208 volts and Identified as using black , red, blue as the circuit conductors........ convince me I'm wrong.............


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Willie B said:


> On this new building I preferred to avoid an orange conductor in the lower voltage three phase. Inspector allowed, but wanted the color code posted in the electrical room.


I don't think this was compliant as a high leg needs to be orange. Not sure why the inspector let you get away with that.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

Forge Boyz said:


> I don't think this was compliant as a high leg needs to be orange. Not sure why the inspector let you get away with that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


In most facilities there is one service, and low voltage is provided by transformer(s). In this one there were three separate services. I wanted to avoid confusion as there were orange conductors in the 480 Y service & equipment. 

Maybe it is a regional thing, but I've seen plenty of high leg 208 to grounded Delta systems using blue for that conductor.

I can't speak to his motivations, he's a stickler for detail.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Willie B said:


> In most facilities there is one service, and low voltage is provided by transformer(s). In this one there were three separate services. I wanted to avoid confusion as there were orange conductors in the 480 Y service & equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are many delta services out there that don't have the high leg marked orange. I opened up one yesterday that had two black and one taped red. That still doesn't change the fact that it is a code requirement. 
I don't see having orange on both systems as being a problem. There will be other wires in the conduit or box that will help you very quickly identify which system it is. And as has been said, always verify. 
Color coding for the high leg is only as good as the installation and sometimes things change. I know of a building with a 240v delta service that i have installed circuits with Black/orange/blue that the high leg is no longer on orange because the utility switched up the phases on the pole. There is not much for me to do about that.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Forge Boyz said:


> There are many delta services out there that don't have the high leg marked orange. I opened up one yesterday that had two black and one taped red. That still doesn't change the fact that it is a code requirement.
> I don't see having orange on both systems as being a problem. There will be other wires in the conduit or box that will help you very quickly identify which system it is. And as has been said, always verify.
> Color coding for the high leg is only as good as the installation and sometimes things change. I know of a building with a 240v delta service that i have installed circuits with Black/orange/blue that the high leg is no longer on orange because the utility switched up the phases on the pole. There is not much for me to do about that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


It is only required to be orange when the neutral is present. So you could have one conduit for a three phase load with black, red, blue, and another conduit with a MWBC with black, orange, blue, and white.

I use brown, purple, yellow for 480 colors.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

In the US we use Black, Red, Blue for 120 / 208 and Brown, Orange, Yellow for 480. 
This is just a basic rule we go by. It helps us identify systems. It would be foolish to start working on a system and assume that these colors really meant anything when it comes to what voltage they are. As stated before many older systems don't comply with this.
I'm on the side of the inspector and feel that we need to have proper colors to identify these 2 very common systems. Who cares what the NEC says. It's more of a courtesy to other electricians. 
Having said all that I'm installing some 277 volt lights and some have emergency ballast so lets say I identify the switch leg with brown for my A Phase and my constant hot with a red wire. This seems practical to me because if I use brown or yellow for that it presents itself as a different phase and someone might think it's 480 volt.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Colors, colors, colors.
Red used to be for the High leg then code changed it, so you may see as high leg it was legal at one time.
And I think it is voltage to ground that needs to be identified when multiple voltages are present. 
New building I worked at was. 
Bn-Pur-Yel 480volts
208/120v was all black
240 Delta was blk-org-blk

I was told it was compliant because phase to ground was common color.

We had three voltages, that how they did it without 12 colors


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Willie B said:


> We did a facility where they wanted to build wind turbines. We had three services:
> 480/277 Three phase Wye.
> 240/208/120 Three phase Delta with center taped phase.
> 240/120 Single phase.
> ...



Usually orange denotes the high leg in high leg delta EXCEPT when it’s BOY. Or I think NFPA 79 uses it for some control wire color scheme. Never seen BRO for anything.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I'm really surprised at the responses so far.....you guys don't know anything........

If, for example, orange electricity gets put in a brown wire, it'll see the wrong color and blow up!

Seriously though, I've always used brown-orange-yellow-gray for 277/480, black-red-blue-white for 120/208 and black-orange-blue-white for 120/240 4 wire ∆. 

I've never seen orange as the high leg be mistaken for 480, the high leg will always be accompanied by either black or blue or both. I guess you could screw it up if you pulled both 240 ∆ and 480 in the same pipe though.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Willie B said:


> You think that, until someone unaware you don't think it important dies. YOU will hope they don't track it back to you.
> 
> Every day, every installation, color matters.


I agree .. Color matters. It helps us to identify voltages as well as decipher what is an AC or DC circuit. I always follow the BOY and BRB color schemes for AC feeders and branch circuits. My point was that 480 volt colors are more important that 120 208 volt circuits IMO. I totally agree that it could be a safety factor especially if someone was to feed a 250v piece of equipment with 480 because they were to lazy to actually pull out a meter and confirm voltage. 

It's up to us to be safe and always check our surroundings and other electricians we work with. If an electrician can't tell the difference between a 480 volt circuit and a 12kv circuit because of its wire colors and decides to check a 12kv circuit with a solenoid tester rated for 600 volts and it blows up in his hand. Wire colors would not have helped him. But yes use the proper colors and markings to ID your circuits and the voltages they operate at.


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