# Feeders and Branch Circuits in the same Conduit.



## Dizzykidd (Aug 3, 2016)

Is there an NEC article that requires Branch circuits and feeders to be in different conduits? Specifically I'm wondering about two panel tubs that are nipple together and do I need a separate nipple for the feeders and for the branch circuits


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It's fine, just watch your derating.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Can you use a panel as a raceway in the NEC? We are not allowed to up here. If we had two panels nippled together (not sure why we would even), you could not pass through one panel to get to the breakers on the other panel.

That is why you see things like this up here...

Cheers
John


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Dizzykidd said:


> Is there an NEC article that requires Branch circuits and feeders to be in different conduits? Specifically I'm wondering about two panel tubs that are nipple together and do I need a separate nipple for the feeders and for the branch circuits


No useally not unless it is speced in the prints and just be aware of derating that will get ya if you are not aware of that.

That part is in NEC but for CEC it dont allowed for some reason ( unless someone in CEC side post the code number for it )


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> Can you use a panel as a raceway in the NEC? We are not allowed to up here. If we had two panels nippled together (not sure why we would even), you could not pass through one panel to get to the breakers on the other panel.
> 
> That is why you see things like this up here...
> 
> ...


Yes, you can provided there is adequate space, which is very hard to fillup, so yes.

As for your picture, that wouldn't work well here. Because of derating requirements it doesn't make sense to put that many circuits into the same raceway. 

If we needed circuits from 2 different panels to enter the same raceway, we would typically use a small trough to do it. But that is more of a commercial thing, no need in resi.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> If we needed circuits from 2 different panels to enter the same raceway, we would typically use a small trough to do it. But that is more of a commercial thing, no need in resi.


Unless you're Chicken Steve.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Navyguy said:


> Can you use a panel as a raceway in the NEC? We are not allowed to up here. If we had two panels nippled together (not sure why we would even), you could not pass through one panel to get to the breakers on the other panel.
> 
> That is why you see things like this up here...
> 
> ...


Are those new FPE breakers?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

MTW said:


> Are those new FPE breakers?


That is a new install circa +/-2006 I think. FPE panels have not been available since about 2009 or so in Canada. They are still, by far, the most popular residential panel in Ontario for anything that was installed prior to +/- 2009.

On almost every residential job I go to, there is a FPE panel installed. Breakers (except for the AFCI) are plenty available. If you install a new AFCI circuit you need to install a deadfront or AFCI receptacle since AFCI breakers are not available.

Cheers
John


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

For nipples of which <2' lengths of conduit are one type, you don't have much concern with derating like you do with raceway.

I think fill also gets relaxed a bit but I am not too sure being just an engineer.


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## danielplace1962 (Mar 24, 2014)

I would never use the nipple or pipe the feeds were in too run or even pass through from one panel to the other side by side. If new install usually pretty easy to put two one high and one low usually and makes nice way to support and space panels when they are tightened up together.

Palm Beach, Broward and Dade County Florida have never allowed branch circuits in with feeds. Separate raceway always. Even if short nipples between panels. No way that will fly.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

danielplace1962 said:


> I would never use the nipple or pipe the feeds were in too run or even pass through from one panel to the other side by side. If new install usually pretty easy to put two one high and one low usually and makes nice way to support and space panels when they are tightened up together.
> 
> Palm Beach, Broward and Dade County Florida have never allowed branch circuits in with feeds. Separate raceway always. Even if short nipples between panels. No way that will fly.


I have never heard that before. Are you saying its a local amendment? @Southeast Power? What say you?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

danielplace1962 said:


> I would never use the nipple or pipe the feeds were in too run or even pass through from one panel to the other side by side. If new install usually pretty easy to put two one high and one low usually and makes nice way to support and space panels when they are tightened up together.
> 
> Palm Beach, Broward and Dade County Florida have never allowed branch circuits in with feeds. Separate raceway always. Even if short nipples between panels. No way that will fly.



As John stated, is there an amendment? If not then they have no right to require that....Service conductors cannot be in a raceway with other conductors but that is not the rule for feeders or branch circuits


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## danielplace1962 (Mar 24, 2014)

Maybe just what I have always done for so many years I thought we had to. Anytime I do a feed through panel with the second one right next to the first I just can't see sticking my branch circuits through with the feeds.
I mean we go in and out of gutters up into and down out of panel after panel with branch circuit sharing conduit with feeders.

Would you go from a panel out through the main feed and through a meter to feed a disconnect near the meter piped out of the meter. What code dis-allows that ? They sure as heck don't allow that. 

Have you ever heard that all wires in a main feed must all be from same manufacturer.

We were doing a huge nursing home in Port Orange, Florida and luckily it was the bosses idea. Anyhow we had about 24 sets of main feeds to pull in from pad mounted transformers into the switch gear in 6 different electric rooms.

It was all 750 mcm. Well instead of phasing the neutrals there was several spools that were different lettering and you could easily tell them apart so it would save time not having to keep track of and phase out one of the wires so we used it for the neutral. So now we only needed to phase 2 of the wires in the sets of 4 per run.
We pulled everyone like that. FAILED !!!!

They made us pull everyone out. .


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Here is how we "nipple" our panels together.Two 60 circuit panels. One on right has a 208/120 volt, three phase main breaker on the bottom with 200 amp subfeed lugs on top and the left one has 200 amp subfeed lugs on top. Not a substantial load, just a lot of circuits.


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