# Decision - Private industrial maintenance VS Union construction



## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Your in the middle of the chicken or the egg. I have done both and prefer troubleshooting to new installations. That is me. Maintenance you will learn the equipment that they have to the max.
Your always going to the same place and will have to deal with those individuals. Having a place to go all of the time can be a blessing. 
Construction on the other hand is new and sometimes exciting. You run a lot of pipe and wire and with any luck learn to make it as pretty as that stuff can be. When the job is done if you part of the cream you will be asked to go to the next job which could be a fer piece away from home. Or you could go back to the hall and wait for the next job. 

I worked graveyards twice, once you get into the swing it is good shift. As the amount of people are less you can do stuff that days is hard to impossible to do. I got a solid job for 3 months changing lamps and ballasts in the bathrooms and offices. Even got busted by the president standing on his desk finishing up the last fixture. He looked at me and noticed the vacuum and how I had taken care of his desk. He smiled and got what he needed and left. Not like he did not know it was going to happen. 

Does the mill have a defined path to JW? A lot of places do not. Which makes the jump into being a journey man hard. 
Last tip compare the health benefits, vacation and education opportunists. I have been fortunate to have employers pay for HVAC certification. The chillers were semi hermatic so the mechanics were afraid of them, 5kv. Had another pay for the classes for an MCSE, then refused to give me the time off to take the tests. 
The power plant would be the kicker for me. 
Congrats on getting to a great place.

Driving to jobs in inclement weather can be treacherous.


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

I started in construction and did 80% of my apprenticeship that way. Then into industrial, and finally into maintenance thankfully. No more long, city, daily commutes.The money is finally consistent and has a good pension. Way easier on the body for sure. 

Graveyards are not a problem as much as rotating shifts. When I have to do all 3 shifts, mornings are the kicker. I can do all of any one shift easily. Of course, YMMV.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

I am not a fan of IBEW and have a love-hate relationship with them.... but if you can get in as an apprentice with IBEW you will get a first-class education and really learn this trade. I have PMed for both non-union and union companies and the apprentices out of IBEW are heads and shoulders above non-union programs. In the last company, I worked for 95% of the apprentices I had on my jobs were apprentices in name only, not part of any program, it was a joke.

The trick is not to get brainwashed while you are there, once you start carrying that rule book in your back pocket, calling people your brother just because they have a card and a pair of Kliens, and letting them tell you how to vote, then you stop thinking for yourself.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The money is the easiest thing to compare but don't gloss over the details there. Ask the following and bring it to a professional and pay them for help making an apples to apples comparison. 


Union wages, health care (details - deductibles, coverages, etc.), retirement / pension / annuity, etc.
Company wage, 401k details, 401k match, health care (details again) and most importantly what benefits come out of your wages and what is provided *in addtion to *your wages.

Don't take that to a financial planner, those are people that sell mutual funds and etc., they're sales people. Take it to a CPA that can help figure out how much money you're actually going to have in thirty years either way. 

I have noticed a lot of the better non-union payers will match the union wage at face value, but then you have to pay for health care, the retirement is just really access to take money out of your wages into their 401k - the match is the real benefit - and the health care may be a pretty crappy plan unless you pay out of your wages to upgrade. 

Learning motors, drives, controls, and PLCs is valuable, but is it valuable locally where you are? How much industry is there? If you learn and become knowledgeable your knowledge probably makes your job secure as long as that mill is in operation. Hard to predict whether the mill will really always be around though, a lot can change in 10 years. Around here, there are good industrial automation jobs but they're hard to get, building controls seems to me to offer more security.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Industrial is all about the crew. Good crew with a decent manager and its a great job. Un-happy, un-helpful crew and a micro manager that has no experience of maintenance and its a nightmare.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

It sounds like you don’t like construction that much because it’s hard on you physically. As an apprentice you are in a very important time of your life to decide what you want to do. If you wait too long you might get stuck into doing something you would regret later. I don’t think that it’s as important to struggle with deciding to go union or stay non-union. Training is important but it’s not always true that a union apprentice would get better training than non-union. In the long run you might get better training if you worked for a large company that offered training in the area you are interested in.

Electrical is a very vast field and there are so many specialties you could choose from. I’m not sure what is beating up your body but that’s for you to figure out. If you’re like me it’s easy to blame hard work on your pain. I’m the type of guy that never works out or even does stretching before I start my work day. I twist the wrong way or lift something heavy and my back gives out on me. I have no choice but to push through and keep going. The funny thing is I get more back pain if I sit at a desk too long.

Industrial maintenance might not be more brain work than construction as it depends on where you work and how you apply yourself. I worked in a facility that employed union maintenance electricians and I watched some of the senior members and all they did for their entire career was change light bulbs and enjoyed the same wages and benefits as the ones who retrofitted machinery, did advanced programming and basically anything they were asked to do.

Bottom line …. Learn all you can so that if you do get laid off you have a much better chance of finding work you really like doing.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Lot of great advice in this thread. 

I dont know what northern Cali is like, but in most areas it seems like there will always be construction jobs. The mill job may be harder to come by. If you think there's a chance you will enjoy the mill job more, give it a try, and you will likely be able to switch later. It may be harder the other way around.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Great thread, lots of great advice. So I say, why not both? Take the maintenance job and then organize it into the IBEW! Now you have the best of both worlds!

*BOOM!*


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

Thanks for all the timely responses guys, I appreciate it.



SWDweller said:


> Your in the middle of the chicken or the egg. I have done both and prefer troubleshooting to new installations. That is me. Maintenance you will learn the equipment that they have to the max.
> Your always going to the same place and will have to deal with those individuals. Having a place to go all of the time can be a blessing.
> Construction on the other hand is new and sometimes exciting. You run a lot of pipe and wire and with any luck learn to make it as pretty as that stuff can be. When the job is done if you part of the cream you will be asked to go to the next job which could be a fer piece away from home. Or you could go back to the hall and wait for the next job.
> 
> ...


The mill does not have a defined path, as you're apparently familiar with, it's basically up to them to determine what constitutes a journeyman. At this point I would be more concerned that they'd try to turn me out too early than too late as they're quite obviously desperate for JW's. Also with the number of hours put in, and on graveyard shift it would be next to impossible to continue any formal schooling which I am currently doing at nights after work. With graveyard 4/12's there isn't much room for accommodations in that respect. On the other hand, the appeal of getting my hours in as a relatively young guy (28) has it's appeal.

The power plant is definitely a big one for me too.. On a side note as a production worker after a mill fire I was put on blowing out the power plant and wrapped the hose around an uncovered emergency shut off for some equipment.. that 4 hours of down time cost them some $60-70,000..  It appears they didn't make note of that in my file..

Inclement weather is a very real concern working for the union in my case, the I-5 mountain pass I would commute over is only at 5,000ft but is plenty hazardous and requires me to hold onto my 4x4 if only for the winter instead of a more economical vehicle.



u2slow said:


> I started in construction and did 80% of my apprenticeship that way. Then into industrial, and finally into maintenance thankfully. *No more long, city, daily commutes.The money is finally consistent and has a good pension. Way easier on the body for sure.
> 
> Graveyards are not a problem as much as rotating shifts.* When I have to do all 3 shifts, mornings are the kicker. I can do all of any one shift easily. Of course, YMMV.


The commute in this case is a definitely a big one to compare, minimum 45 minutes one way over a pass vs 25 minutes no pass all freeway. When I worked on production some years back I was on a rotating shift and definitely know what you mean, 2 days 2 nights every week is just about the worse schedule I could come up with. This at least would be 4-12's, 4:30-4:30.



PhatElvis said:


> I am not a fan of IBEW and have a love-hate relationship with them.... but if you can get in as an apprentice with IBEW *you will get a first-class education and really learn this trade*. I have PMed for both non-union and union companies and the apprentices out of IBEW are heads and shoulders above non-union programs. In the last company, I worked for 95% of the apprentices I had on my jobs were apprentices in name only, not part of any program, it was a joke.
> 
> The trick is not to get brainwashed while you are there, once you start carrying that rule book in your back pocket, calling people your brother just because they have a card and a pair of Kliens, and letting them tell you how to vote, then you stop thinking for yourself.


The education might be the biggest pro in favor of the union in this case, I do want a good education and right now I would rate my current program as mediocre at best. I spent a tremendous amount of time reading, researching and educating myself as a result. 



splatz said:


> The money is the easiest thing to compare but don't gloss over the details there. Ask the following and bring it to a professional and pay them for help making an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> 
> Union wages, health care (details - deductibles, coverages, etc.), retirement / pension / annuity, etc.
> ...


I definitely can see the value in that, like you've mentioned it's easy to get caught up in the face value numbers but applying/estimating compound interest, understanding the tax repercussions and getting the kinds of answers these companies don't like to readily offer up could go a long way towards making my decision easier.

I would say that this mill is about as reliable as it gets in this region/county, they're a producer of the raw materials for engineered wood products and they've got almost the entire process in house, their own timber, power, water etc, the nearest city actually depends on them for about 70% of their water. No such thing as a sure thing, but for the area this is as close as it gets. I would rate it's security as being topped only by the medical facility my fiance is at. That said, the remainder of the automation based electrician positions in the area are filled by maybe 25 electricians at most so it may not be the most relevant skill set in that respect. 



gpop said:


> Industrial is all about the crew. Good crew with a decent manager and its a great job. Un-happy, un-helpful crew and a micro manager that has no experience of maintenance and its a nightmare.


I do have the benefit of knowing the lead electricians and have some report with management, both thanks to it being such a small community. Like anywhere there's good apples and bad, but overall it's an environment of guys who consider one another family. 



Easy said:


> *It sounds like you don’t like construction that much because it’s hard on you physically*. As an apprentice you are in a very important time of your life to decide what you want to do. If you wait too long you might get stuck into doing something you would regret later. I don’t think that it’s as important to struggle with deciding to go union or stay non-union. Training is important but it’s not always true that a union apprentice would get better training than non-union. In the long run you might get better training if you worked for a large company that offered training in the area you are interested in.
> 
> Electrical is a very vast field and there are so many specialties you could choose from. I’m not sure what is beating up your body but that’s for you to figure out. If you’re like me it’s easy to blame hard work on your pain. I’m the type of guy that never works out or even does stretching before I start my work day. I twist the wrong way or lift something heavy and my back gives out on me. I have no choice but to push through and keep going. The funny thing is I get more back pain if I sit at a desk too long.
> 
> ...


I definitely have seen the toll it took on my father and grandfathers which is not an encouraging end result, my dad was a union carpenter, then an iron worker and finished out as an independent general. My grandfather spent his life building bridges and both of them have little to show for it outside the extreme abuse on their bodies. I ultimately feel like working with my hands is what calls to me but I'm not the least intelligent guy out there and my work ethic borders on obsessive workaholism, as such I want to be able to retire some day and hopefully still with a reasonably able body. 


*Thanks again for all the responses*


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