# Metal Stud Labor Costs (NECA)



## Achilles (Sep 11, 2014)

***Backstory***
A 27 unit apartment building we are wiring had a change in plans from wood to metal studs.

At the time I told the owner there would be a significant change cost (10-15% branch). Against my advice we proceeded without signed change.

***Question***
Can someone provide me a NECA Manual reference (or similar) that instructs how to properly price metal stud romex wiring? I believe I will need to use a labor/cost manual as ammo to settle our change order dispute.

Thank you


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Achilles said:


> ***Backstory***
> A 27 unit apartment building we are wiring had a change in plans from wood to metal studs.
> 
> At the time I told the owner there would be a significant change cost (10-15% branch). Against my advice we proceeded without signed change.
> ...


Other than slapping in the required grommets to save the Romex... EVERYTHING will go faster. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Set down the Holehawg and pick up a tin punch. :thumbsup:


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## dielectricunion (Nov 29, 2012)

I was going to say the same... shouldnt the job be slightly faster and cheaper in metal framing?

Im surprised they build 27 unit new construction with wood framing


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

In real life this job is going to take forever.

Pulling wire around POS metal studs just smokes them and really is not possible. You are knocking them down or bending the **** out of them. Mounting boxes is of course a joke. You can mount 10 on steel or 50 on wood.

Double the labor easy. I hate em.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

daveEM said:


> In real life this job is going to take forever.
> 
> Pulling wire around POS metal studs just smokes them and really is not possible. You are knocking them down or bending the **** out of them. Mounting boxes is of course a joke. You can mount 10 on steel or 50 on wood.
> 
> Double the labor easy. I hate em.


Having done both... I'd put steel down as twice as fast as wood.

You've already got your holes -- mostly.






Grommets are required by Code if you're pulling Romex through steel studs. You can omit them by running MC, your choice.

As for using self tappers instead of nails... use Caddy 

https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R936

These ^^ permit face screwing and have far-side box support so that the boxes can't get shoved under by the rockers.

If using side bracket boxes... purchase some Speed Clamps 

http://www.irwin.com/tools/clamps/one-handed-mini-bar-clamps

Because of the C channel geometry, modify the clamps by screwing some blocking so that they clamp sweet. ( Figure this one out on your own. :whistling2

I use both side brackets and face screwed supports... depending.

The extra expense -- materials wise -- is MORE than made up by not having to drill through wood -- and NAILS -- on and on. 

Should you ever need to re-position a box -- nothing could be quicker -- in steel.

You'll also want to hunt down steel backing strips -- should you ever have to surface mount light fixtures in a powder room. Ask around. Plumbers and GCs always seem to know the best sources. 

Out here, no-body charges a premium to run jobs in steel, no-body. :no:

The kvetching starts when the troops find out that a job is to be routed in wood. That is now so unusual that the boys are often stumped. :laughing:


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## Achilles (Sep 11, 2014)

telsa said:


> Having done both... I'd put steel down as twice as fast as wood.


Here is where I'll respectfully disagree.
1. Drilling holes is faster & cheaper then installing grommets. Just place the drill on your hip and walk forward.
2. Pulling wire through drilled holes goes better then metal studs. You bind up less and all your holes are in a straight line.
3. Nail on boxes are faster and cheaper
4. Staples are faster and cheaper
5. Setup time/material handling is higher

It's not a tremendous change but I'm noticing around 12% labor/material. It doesn't seem like a lot but string it out over 27 unit's on a prevailing wage project and it adds up fast.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Using metal studs in residential work involves more framing than using metal studs in tenant improvement jobs inside the shopping mall. Studs are at 24'' in demise and non load bearing separation walls in shoe stores so you are dealing with less labor for those. (assuming they bothered to lock down both sides and top and bottom, which we all know they seldom do....). Like other's said, material costs are higher with using mc cable, metal boxes and mud rings, grounding jumpers in boxes, caddy bracing at boxes to keep inspectors happy, and the like. Metal studs in houses runs 20% more labor time than wood. There are heavy duty reinforcement ''beams'' and the like that the stud punches cannot handle, and those you have to break out hole cutting drill bits like step bits or carbide cutters anyway. A portable plasma torch is handy to have at the jobsite if you are wiring metal residential jobs also. When I do alterations to metal stud cookie cutter housing tracts I notice the local inspectors allow a lot of things you won't see getting by on regular custom housing jobs such as allowing a bunch of romex cables to get bundled together and secured with tie wraps.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

I jam at Awesome Speed either way . Wood or Metal ...

It only takes tough tricks when the Steel Studs are spek at 18 gauge steel ,
if i remember rather then 24 gauge , 22 ? ... Government Specs , need them diamond tipped screws or you will loose your ...

Get a Stud Punch .

AC cable is longer than NM ... EMT is longest ...

I think you are in for a learning exp .

Don't forget to grab all the Flat Track you can .

Ressi is easy, layout to Existing Framing ... special spots use tricks .

Always use a 4 - 6 " kick peice on box so is tight in wall .



Pete


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Using metal studs in residential work involves more framing than using metal studs in tenant improvement jobs inside the shopping mall. Studs are at 24'' in demise and non load bearing separation walls in shoe stores so you are dealing with less labor for those. (assuming they bothered to lock down both sides and top and bottom, which we all know they seldom do....). Like other's said, material costs are higher with using mc cable, metal boxes and mud rings, grounding jumpers in boxes, caddy bracing at boxes to keep inspectors happy, and the like. Metal studs in houses runs 20% more labor time than wood. There are heavy duty reinforcement ''beams'' and the like that the stud punches cannot handle, and those you have to break out hole cutting drill bits like step bits or carbide cutters anyway. A portable plasma torch is handy to have at the jobsite if you are wiring metal residential jobs also. When I do alterations to metal stud cookie cutter housing tracts I notice the local inspectors allow a lot of things you won't see getting by on regular custom housing jobs such as allowing a bunch of romex cables to get bundled together and secured with tie wraps.





MacMikeMan ... you really think in Ressi metal studs with NM takes longer ?



Pete


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

metal makes wood look slow

MC can be bundled too....

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

telsa said:


> As for using self tappers instead of nails... use Caddy
> 
> https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R936
> 
> ...


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## Heavyritefoot (Sep 11, 2015)

I've only worked with metal studs in highrise in Toronto. The added costs are just the grommets and maybe protection plates depending on the size of the stud sometimes 1"5/8 thick and inspectors wanting them on bigger studs. No drill just a stud punch and some self tapers to fasten the box on the stud. Use core line and pull 14 awg wire thru it and not nmw.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

*If i can see further it's because.....*

_Highrise in Toronto_? 
whadda you standin' on a keg of brew HeavyOne?:jester:~CS~:laughing:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Achilles said:


> ***Backstory***
> A 27 unit apartment building we are wiring had a change in plans from wood to metal studs.
> 
> At the time I told the owner there would be a significant change cost (10-15% branch). Against my advice we proceeded without signed change.
> ...


If you are not the boss why would you care?


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## triden (Jun 13, 2012)

RIVETER said:


> If you are not the boss why would you care?


Because a boss's job in any efficient business is to take the load off his shoulders by transferring it to willing employees so that the boss can continue to put his efforts into business development. This also leads towards a self-sufficient business so that one day he can retire in confidence and still earn a dividend check. 

Or you could just stick with the status quo, work until you're 85, and bark at your feeble employees all day because they don't know anything - (who's fault is that)?


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> telsa said:
> 
> 
> > As for using self tappers instead of nails... use Caddy
> ...


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

Yea and the insulators pull out to stuff behind..


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

triden said:


> Because a boss's job in any efficient business is to take the load off his shoulders by transferring it to willing employees so that the boss can continue to put his efforts into business development. This also leads towards a self-sufficient business so that one day he can retire in confidence and still earn a dividend check.
> 
> Or you could just stick with the status quo, work until you're 85, and bark at your feeble employees all day because they don't know anything - (who's fault is that)?


Again, if you are not the boss you don't really have a say so except to do the job as instructed.


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