# You do fire alarms?



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Curious to know how many electricians and electrical contractors might also do a bit of fire alarm work?


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Mark,

We only used Simplex or Cerberus due to sole source specifications. Always installed the pipe, wire, panel can, devices and provided final testing and validation assistance to the factory. Factory always wired and programmed the panel, and validated.

My four or five competitors pretty much followed the same routine.

Fire alarms were our worst nightmare !

Steve (Glad To Be Gone)


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

I do some work with fire alarm, the work is fairly easy to do, just run the conduit and wire to the specifications of the fire alarm equipment supplier. Most of the time the detectors, pull stations, horns and lights locations are specified by the equipment manufacturer and all that needs to be done is run the circuits and install the devices. The fire alarm company comes in makes up the panel and does an inspection and slaps a state required inspection sticker on the system. There is a special “S” license to do fire alarm work which is included in the Master Electrician license, But most of the time they just work under the “S” license. 
I have seen the fire alarm companies do their own wiring and some of it is not to tidy.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

We often change out duct mounted smoke detectors and wire up smoke exhaust fans into the fire panels as well as fan kills for the air handlers. Any other alarm work is subbed out.


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

"Fire alarms were our worst nightmare!"

All of my area ECs agree to that statement.

Over my 35 year tenure we have installed hundreds of FA systems, big and small, addressable, 2wire/4wire, and customer proprietary.

The reason I made the ‘nightmare’ statement is due to the extreme lengths to which our customers went to nit-pick our submittals (impossible to please). Submittals on a big system could be as large as 40 pages of E size prints, and hundreds of material cut sheets, all submitted in 10 copies. We were _always_ diligent about submittal accuracy, but our customers were more diligent about being goofy. They usually did not extend the courtesy of marking submittal approvals 'AAN' (Approved As Noted), just 'Resubmit'.

The customer’s inordinate system validation process was also a Pepto-Bismol event. _Any _hiccup during validation is cause for a complete system retest . . . 

The piping and wiring part was easy, just goofy specs – no splices, no wirenuts, wire pulls were to be continuous, etc. And the beat goes on, and on!

Why did we do the fire alarms? Because the fire alarm was part of the electrical package, and the GCs didn’t want that heartache either!

Steve (Glad To Be Gone)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If asked, I will, then I just sub it out. Quick, easy and makes money.


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

I do Fire Alarms where they are specified - but I would not do just a Fire Alarm Job.

Here in the UK we use 2 wire or multi wire systems. The 2 wire systems are a logic loop and easy to install. Circuitry is by MICC or Fire Tuff cable. Sometimes Pirelli FP200. Conduit systems have not been installed for years.

Frank


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

We have been asked to do fire alarm work and I've always had to turn that work down because my insurance co. doesn't want to cover that and they never have been willing to give me a rider even for just one job. So we handle the conduit and boxes, pull the wire but that's all. The state insists that all work be done by state licensed electricians but in my area there are none. Closest qualified are 80-150miles away. Not easy to get to come here. The last one was alarm/sprinkler job in a hockey arena and the Factory guy had to come in from SLC UT.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I concur with the insurance bit. While we are qualified and licensed to install FA systems, our insurance premiums would triple if we wanted that coverage.

So, we sub out that part of the work when its included in our scope of work.


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## oldnslow (Apr 14, 2007)

I find that doing fire alarms require another breed of electrician. Just like construction and service electricians have a different mindset , so do f/a electricians. 

I have had to repair systems that the installers didn't take proper care when installing. It is real easy to end up upside down with a poor install.

Unless I have a couple of good f/a techs I prefer to sub it out for peace of mind.

oldnslow


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I do not do light fixtures or fire alarms


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Mark,

You sure do know how to get that poop rolling. Best wishes, and keep up the good work . . .

(Still looking for that elusive ‘SeeSnake’, it may be extinct in this area)

Addressing some of your other thread respondents: (with my apologies to the many contributors. . .)

Quoting ;

wire to the specifications of the fire alarm equipment supplier: _I never had that luxury, had to march to the _customer’s_ drummer by spec._
I have seen the fire alarm companies do their own wiring and some of it is not to tidy. _Congrats for the understatement of the year !!!_
If asked, I will, then I just sub it out. Quick, easy and makes money. _Wish I had the choice to sub out . . . Sole source was spec’d. No contest._
I do Fire Alarms where they are specified - but I would not do just a Fire Alarm Job. _Sometimes we had to feed at the bottom of the tank . . ._
I've always had to turn that work down because my insurance co. doesn't want to cover that. _My orbit was the government sector, no contest_
_I find that doing fire alarms require another breed of electrician. Congrats oldnslow for the understatement of the year number 2 !!!, . . ._
I do not do light fixtures or fire alarms. _Wish I had that luxury, wow. . ._

Best Wishes To All,

Steve


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Gentlemen: 

Sorry for the poor punctuation and italics in my above post. I’m a neophyte, and trying to get my sea legs here . . .

Be safe out there,

Steve


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

HighWirey said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> Sorry for the poor punctuation and italics in my above post. I’m a neophyte, and trying to get my sea legs here . . .
> 
> ...


You're fine, Steve. I appreciate your participation.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I generally dont get into this mess [ Fire Alarm ] kinda little messy if not carefully and myself i genrally sub this to the FA contractor because there are alot of spec's can change very fast.

Most FA contractors useally asked me to just pipe in and they will string in the wires as per thier spec's called for basic trouble shooting i can do some but normally i kinda hand off this approch because there are too many thing can go wrong if not do it right.

Merci, Marc


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

I really liked the fire alarm poll choices, but the finest (and the 40% winner to date) is: Yes, but only if you beg . . .


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Present company uses their "low voltage" division, but since the 1 tech that did it left, I don't think they are doing any.

A past company would sub out programming and certification, and do the wiring, devices, etc. They used the same company each time, and sometimes got work from them, such as installing conduit and wiremold in an existing 17 story building for a system upgrade.


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