# How to NEATLY wire a load centre? Apprentice help



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Oh my god! What planet are you from?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

what planet is this board from?oh sorry, wasnt looking where you are from. new one to me


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Looks fine to me.

I spent the last two days ripping out an obsolete lighting control panel and replacing it with a new one. There were hundreds of wires in it and the layout between the old & new panels caused 90% of the wires to be too short. So I filled that bitch up with wire nuts and zip ties. Looks like a toddler with palsey wired it but all the lights work.


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## OzSpark (Jun 1, 2012)

erics37 said:


> Looks fine to me.
> 
> I spent the last two days ripping out an obsolete lighting control panel and replacing it with a new one. There were hundreds of wires in it and the layout between the old & new panels caused 90% of the wires to be too short. So I filled that bitch up with wire nuts and zip ties. Looks like a toddler with palsey wired it but all the lights work.


That's not the one I wired in the original post. Mine looked a mess.


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## OzSpark (Jun 1, 2012)

backstay said:


> Oh my god! What planet are you from?


Australia/New Zealand.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

OzSpark said:


> Australia/New Zealand.


The fact you care what it looked like speaks volumes.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Well you asked for tips and advice.....Keep up what you are doing. Caring about the the way things look and operate is exactly what will make you a good electrician.

If you care about it, you will find the way to educate and better your skills for the life of your career.:thumbsup:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Not sure how I'd go about wiring an Australian panelboard, but here I land all the cables in the panel, strip them, and then land one type of conductor at a time. Usually, all the grounds first, then neutrals, and last the hots on the breakers.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

erics37 said:


> Not sure how I'd go about wiring an Australian panelboard, but here I land all the cables in the panel, strip them, and then land one type of conductor at a time. Usually, all the grounds first, then neutrals, and last the hots on the breakers.


Ditto......Then I use a hell of a lot of zip ties to piss off the next guy!:laughing:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

erics37 said:


> Not sure how I'd go about wiring an Australian panelboard, but here I land all the cables in the panel, strip them, and then land one type of conductor at a time. Usually, all the grounds first, then neutrals, and last the hots on the breakers.


 good plan. my problem is i get too many jobs that cant be done all at once. put wires in , pull wires out, push them back in, try to make it look neat. means alot to some B.I.s


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## BostonSparky (Jan 12, 2012)

OzSpark said:


> I'm currently working on a luxury high rise apartment construction. 26 stories and each level has 12 apartments. I'm a second year apprentice and had the chance to wire my first board yesterday. I got all the connections correct, but it took all day and was extremely messy. My tradesman told me it was OK, and obviously, I'll get better with time.
> 
> I went into one of the other electrician's apartments and looked at his board, very neat. I'm just after some tips on keeping everything neat.
> 
> Here's the boards we're wiring, brain dead stuff for a qualified electrician, but it's all new to me. This ISN'T my work...


Practice makes perfect. 

I've wired a few of these panels and in my opinion there's not enough room. 


What's on the top right RCD??


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

IMO, once the panel looks like it's in the top 10% of any panel on earth, any more time spent to achieve perfection is wasting money.

You're boss is in the business of making money. If it takes you ten times more time to wire a panel as everybody else, even it's neater, your neck will be on the chopping block.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

BostonSparky said:


> Practice makes perfect.
> 
> I've wired a few of these panels and in my opinion there's not enough room.
> 
> ...


That is surge arrester and this is leigt Aussie style connection which I have see it from time to time.

Bottom left is the main breaker ( note that is triphase breaker ) and second breaker next to the main breaker is triphase again but I belive that is went hot water cylinder aka tank type water heater.

Some of Aussie panels will have RCD's and some don't depending on which type of grid supply they do get it.

The Aussie triphase colour is Red , White , Bleu ( I know it may suprised why but that it was way for pretty long time for aussie standard.) the Black is used for netural however some of the conductors they do get now some are allready switched over to Brown for active ( phase ) conductor and bleu for netural so there will be a warning label on the CU ( Customer Unit aka meter socket ) and also on the load centre to give anyone a head up with change of conductor colour format. 

That part is common over here in France we have mixed bag of colour format.

Oh yeah Aussie guys do have same voltage as I am in France 240 volts line to neutral and 400 to 415 volts phase to phase.

Merci,
Marc

Note: if you look at the OP's photo the HOB is actually a countertop burners.


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## OzSpark (Jun 1, 2012)

BostonSparky said:


> Practice makes perfect.
> 
> I've wired a few of these panels and in my opinion there's not enough room.
> 
> ...


From left to right, starting from the main switch.

100A main switch
32A hot water breaker
25A cooktop breaker 
16A oven breaker
16A microwave breaker
16A air conditioning 1 breaker (wired through contactor switch)
16A air conditioning 2 breaker (wired through contactor switch)
10A smoke alarm breaker

20A power 1 RCD
20A power 2 RCD
16A lighting 1 RCD (wired through contactor switch)
16A lighting 2 RCD (wired through contactor switch)
10A contactor breaker

Red = positive
Black = neutral
Green & yellow = earth.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

> ... Red = positive ...



And I thought you all had AC power down there?

(Seriously) ... is that a 3-pole main breaker there? 

That panel looks much different from the one with the porcelain fuse-wire holders that I saw being installed in OZ when I visited there 35 years ago ...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

OzSpark said:


> Here's the boards we're wiring, brain dead stuff for a qualified electrician, but it's all new to me. This ISN'T my work...


Those things are crap, apparently there are no rules for space to work.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Those things are crap, apparently there are no rules for space to work.


Tell me about it. That thing looks like a complete and utter goat rodeo to work in.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

OzSpark said:


> From left to right, starting from the main switch.
> 
> 100A main switch
> 32A hot water breaker
> ...


Wow, I would be worse than a first year working in this system. Color code would have me hung up for sure. 

How does the buss work? Is there something built into the breakers that carries it from one to the other?


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## maddhatter (May 7, 2012)

backstay said:


> Wow, I would be worse than a first year working in this system. Color code would have me hung up for sure.
> 
> How does the buss work? Is there something built into the breakers that carries it from one to the other?


Under the breakers on the bottom row (the thing labelled NHP) is busscomb - it interconnects the breakers.

The top RCD's (or GFCI's I think you lot call them) look to be fed from behind the comb under the main switch from different phases.

It's nice to see an Australian board here, I don't feel so left out


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Switched said:


> Ditto......Then I use a hell of a lot of zip ties to piss off the next guy!:laughing:


I am a known and feared zip tie cutter.

I minimize my use of them, usually primarily for wire management and only sparsely at best. I also never cinch them down all the way.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

erics37 said:


> I am a known and feared zip tie cutter.
> 
> I minimize my use of them, usually primarily for wire management and only sparsely at best. I also never cinch them down all the way.


I like to cut the tails 1/8 in long on an angle.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

backstay said:


> I like to cut the tails 1/8 in long on an angle.


Me too :thumbup: It's like an electrician booby trap.


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## OzSpark (Jun 1, 2012)

backstay said:


> Wow, I would be worse than a first year working in this system. Color code would have me hung up for sure.
> 
> How does the buss work? Is there something built into the breakers that carries it from one to the other?


Three channels in the busbar, one for each phase. The RCDs at the top are fed with single wires from the main switch. Power 1 on Red, Power 2 on White and the lights & contactor on Blue.


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

Modular DIN rail equipment, that thought hasn't taken off over here yet, maybe in a few decades someone might start importing it.

It makes me realise how much room we have in the US does look tight in there but the wire is stranded silicone coated, similar to what you find inside SO cord.
Anyone else notice the the load center is plastic and 3 phase 100A


To the OP, just try to visualise what the final product will look like and make every connection and cable route in that pattern...again as you were told, they get neater the more you do them.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

maddhatter said:


> Under the breakers on the bottom row (the thing labelled NHP) is busscomb - it interconnects the breakers.
> 
> The top RCD's (or GFCI's I think you lot call them) look to be fed from behind the comb under the main switch from different phases.
> 
> It's nice to see an Australian board here, I don't feel so left out


That cool and one instering thing between your and our ( French ) panels is the busscomb is inverted our is from the top side.

It is common for us to make submains from that panel so we do simair pattern as you Aussies done beside some of our French regualtions throw in the mix.

Note : our older panels the earth connections are on the top the modern one it is on bottom nowdays.

Merci,
Marc 

Merci,
Marc


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Hey Marc! 

Tell me why they locate those panels/load centres above the front door in many European areas?

You need a ladder to reach them?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

kbsparky said:


> Hey Marc!
> 
> Tell me why they locate those panels/load centres above the front door in many European areas?
> 
> ...


 
My reply in bleu and our regulations are starting to line up with your NEC codes with few parts but not all of it.

I just have one house not too long ago that did have a panel board above the front door as well that was moved to the new location and slove alot of issue with it due the new panel is located outdoor ( we do have outdoor rated panel for this useage anyway.) but that did eat up my time a bit due there were few thick rocks in the wall which it did slow down my core boring a bit but manged to get it all done.

Merci,
Marc


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

and second thing is 2 meter height for max reach for any type of breakers which it the same rules you guys have in USA side

Canadian Electrical Code 1.7 meters... that would be 67 inches for the folks that could care less about the metric measuring system. 

2 meters is around 78-3/4 inches... far too high for our short ladies to reach.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Can you post a photo of the revenue meter?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

CFL said:


> Can you post a photo of the revenue meter?


 
Which one ? the Aussie / New Zenlander style or European style ? 

Merci,
Marc


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## malestrom (Jun 24, 2013)

OzSpark said:


> I'm currently working on a luxury high rise apartment construction. 26 stories and each level has 12 apartments. *I'm a second year apprentice* and had the chance to wire my first board yesterday. I got all the connections correct, but it took all day and was extremely messy. My tradesman told me it was OK, and obviously, I'll get better with time.
> 
> I went into one of the other electrician's apartments and looked at his board, very neat. *I'm just after some tips on keeping everything neat.*
> 
> Here's the boards we're wiring, brain dead stuff for a qualified electrician, but it's all new to me. This ISN'T my work...



That is a really small panel board to work on.There are much larger one's with the same amount of space (2X12) required for the breakers and switches.These are the usual one's used for this type of work on high rise multiple apartments.

This has much more space and my choice)


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