# Daisy Chain or Whips



## user4818

Are you talking about troffer or recessed lights in a suspended ceiling?

If so, daisy chain. I don't see the point of using a whip to each light, unless you're in Chicago or some other place that only allows EMT or other hard raceway methods.


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## Bob Badger

Daisy chain, any other way adds time and material.


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## Voltech

Peter D said:


> Are you talking about troffer or recessed lights in a suspended ceiling?
> 
> If so, daisy chain. I don't see the point of using a whip to each light, unless you're in Chicago or some other place that only allows EMT or other hard raceway methods.


Troffer's, cans, any light really.

Where Acceptable would be anywhere the Jb could be easily accessible.

I have just gotten to the point where I hate daisy chaining. It seems it takes to long to drop the lights in. I would never use a hard raceway unless it was in the spec's.


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## jwjrw

Ive done it both ways and would rather daisy chain. Its faster and less material cost.


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## Voltech

Bob Badger said:


> Daisy chain, any other way adds time and material.



Whips, any other way adds time and material.:thumbsup:


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## jwjrw

Voltech said:


> Whips, any other way adds time and material.:thumbsup:


 
I hate wiring lights so the less I'm on a ladder the happier I am. If your faster setting j boxes and running whips then by all means rock on. I don't think I could set the boxes and run whips faster so I don't. Both are code compliant so its like tomato/tomoto . What ever floats your boat.:yes:


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## user438

I use whips to junction boxes, I order the lights pre whipped and you can't daisy chain using the factory whips, you would have to run full size 12-2 MC cable


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## william1978

I prefer running conduit and setting a box within 6' and dropping a whip to the light, but don't get to do jobs like that any more. I did a lot of schools when I first got in the trade and that is how they were speced and that is how I learned, but as the jobs are being done faster and faster you just about have to daisy chain them. The only jobs that still set j-box's and whips are some of the hospital's here because of spec's.


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## dawgs

I like whips, as thats how I was tought. Do as much work possible during rough for a quicker trim. Also less mess during trim. But that was back in the day of running pipe on a commercial job when it took an electrician not a mexican.


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## MDShunk

I've been using those snap-in MC connectors a lot lately, and I recently noticed that the duplex MC connectors are 4 cents a piece cheaper than buying two single MC connectors. Another reason to daisy-chain, and another reason to use duplex MC connectors. Plus, whipping to each fixture just seems like a heck of a waste of cable.


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## captkirk

I agree with Marc....Thats a huge waste......I can see mayyyyybe in a comerc enviorment but in a house......? thats silly, but hey what ever floats your boat..


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

captkirk said:


> .I can see mayyyyybe in a comerc enviorment but in a house......?


Even then, what's the purpose? There's really no benefit other than bragging rights. The only times I've done it is when speced for EM lighting in hospitals.


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## captkirk

dawgs said:


> I like whips, as thats how I was tought. Do as much work possible during rough for a quicker trim. Also less mess during trim. But that was back in the day of running pipe on a commercial job when it took an electrician not a mexican.


 Im not sure what a South American and daisy chaining have anything to do with one another...?


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## captkirk

I guess every Union Job Ive seen was done by the folks from Mexico by your standards.......


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## Voltech

captkirk said:


> Im not sure what a South American and daisy chaining have anything to do with one another...?


I think he was talking about Northern Mexico:jester:


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## william1978

captkirk said:


> I agree with Marc....Thats a huge waste......I can see mayyyyybe in a comerc enviorment but in a house......? thats silly, but hey what ever floats your boat..


 How would you wire the lights if you didn't daisey chain them in a house?


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

william1978 said:


> How would you wire the lights if you didn't daisey chain them in a house?


Attic or basement JB's. Or all the lights fed directly from the switchbox.


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## william1978

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> Attic or basement JB's. Or all the lights fed directly from the switchbox.


 That sure sounds like a pain in the a$$.


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

william1978 said:


> That sure sounds like a pain in the a$$.


Worthless. 

Altho when rewiring a house I will usually JB in the attic instead of fishing two wires to each receptacle, but that's a different story altogether.


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## dawgs

captkirk said:


> Im not sure what a South American and daisy chaining have anything to do with one another...?


I am saying it takes more skilled labor to run pipe than pull cable.


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## william1978

dawgs said:


> I am saying it takes more skilled labor to run pipe than pull cable.


 Absolutely!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

dawgs said:


> I am saying it takes more skilled labor to run pipe than pull cable.


Skilled labor or not, it costs a lot more money for no real benefit.


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## user438

captkirk said:


> I agree with Marc....Thats a huge waste......I can see mayyyyybe in a comerc enviorment but in a house......? thats silly, but hey what ever floats your boat..


I don't think anybody was talking about a house :shifty:


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## dawgs

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> Skilled labor or not, it costs a lot more money for no real benefit.


 The question was what do you prefer, not what was cheaper.


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## user438

captkirk said:


> Im not sure what a South American and daisy chaining have anything to do with one another...?


 
Mexico is in N America :shifty:


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

dawgs said:


> The question was what do you prefer, not what was cheaper.


Why would someone prefer something much more expensive with no apparent benefit????


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## Dr. Dong

*Wire*

MC, Zip Ties, No Permits, Forever!


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## dawgs

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> Why would someone prefer something much more expensive with no apparent benefit????


Well as others mentioned it is sometimes speced that way on jobs. Also Im the boss, they will do it whatever way I tell them.


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

dawgs said:


> Well as others mentioned it is sometimes speced that way on jobs.


 When it's speced, it doesn't matter what someone's preference is.


> Also Im the boss, they will do it whatever way I tell them.


You're such a big man.


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## dawgs

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> When it's speced, it doesn't matter what someone's preference is.
> You're such a big man.


Its a joke A$$hole!


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## Dr. Dong

*Pipe*

Pipework is a waste of time unless it's needed for major protection or used in a Chipoltle Store.


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## user4818

Dr. Dong said:


> Pipework is a waste of time unless it's needed for major protection or used in a Chipoltle Store.



:sleep1:


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## Voltech

captkirk said:


> I agree with Marc....Thats a huge waste......I can see mayyyyybe in a comerc enviorment but in a house......? thats silly, but hey what ever floats your boat..


Not a waste at all IMO..Its made up in labor..

Using round numbers..

10 rooms 6 lights per room. 2 JB's with 3 whips each. Once your wire is pulled make your taps and tie in your whips with one trip up the ladder your lights are ready to be laid in and taped once the grid is in.

If your using Ideal wagos at the fixture, you only have to twist 20 joints. If your daisy chaining you have to twist 60 joints and run up and down the ladder to run and strap your BX.


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## dawgs

I will let you trolls who are the same person carry on this thread.


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## Voltech

dawgs said:


> Well as others mentioned it is sometimes speced that way on jobs. Also Im the boss, they will do it whatever way I tell them.


Geez, you get to be the boss and call the shots..:yes:


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

dawgs said:


> I will let you trolls who are the same person carry on this thread.


We aren't the same person. There is Peter D, Me, and John Sham. That's 3 trolls.


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

peter d said:


> :sleep1:


 reported


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## dawgs

Voltech said:


> Geez, you get to be the boss and call the shots..:yes:


 Just sometimes.:no:


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## user4818

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> We aren't the same person. There is Peter D, Me, and John Sham. That's 3 trolls.



Hopefully Hertz Electric and his numerous alter egos will chime in if he's lurking. That would be a _real_ troll fest! :thumbsup:


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

Peter D said:


> Hopefully Hertz Electric and his numerous alter egos will chime in if he's lurking. That would be a _real_ troll fest! :thumbsup:


What happened to his latest troll account the other night??


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## user4818

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> What happened to his latest troll account the other night??


I guess it got zapped. I miss that guy.


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

Peter D said:


> I guess it got zapped. I miss that guy.


I'm done here, I'm gonna ban myself.


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## user4818

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> I'm done here, I'm gonna ban myself.


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## IWoreAHelmetAsAKid

Peter D said:


>


I've done enough for one night. 

BYE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!

Peter, you must protect my legacy...


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## Voltech

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> Why would someone prefer something much more expensive with no apparent benefit????


Come work on my crew..I'll change your mind....

One day you might get a job where you get a piece of the action when a Job is brought in under budget...:thumbsup:


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## user4818

IWoreAHelmetAsAKid said:


> I've done enough for one night.
> 
> BYE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Peter, you must protect my legacy...


Until next time! :thumbsup:


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## jwjrw

MDShunk said:


> I've been using those snap-in MC connectors a lot lately, and I recently noticed that the duplex MC connectors are 4 cents a piece cheaper than buying two single MC connectors. Another reason to daisy-chain, and another reason to use duplex MC connectors. Plus, whipping to each fixture just seems like a heck of a waste of cable.


 

The last shopping center I did was in MC cable. I ordered the doubles but after I saw the invoice I sent them back. They were like .20 more than two singles. I use the arlington ast 38 something they snap in the box but have a screw to hold the wire so you can remove the wire easily if necessary. Even if they were a few cents cheaper I still would use the singles in most cases because I just perfer using them.


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## Bob Badger

Voltech said:


> 10 rooms 6 lights per room. 2 JB's with 3 whips each. Once your wire is pulled make your taps and tie in your whips with one trip up the ladder your lights are ready to be laid in and taped once the grid is in.
> 
> If your using Ideal wagos at the fixture, you only have to twist 20 joints. If your daisy chaining you have to twist 60 joints and run up and down the ladder to run and strap your BX.




There is no way that adding extra boxes shortens the time or the amount of joints to be made. Unless there is some unusual circumstance ... say under cabinets lights or track lighting with small feed kits ..... daisy chaining will always be the least costly.


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## Bob Badger

jwjrw said:


> They were like .20 more than two singles.


I would think that installing two connectors per fixture instead of one would cost me .20 per fixture in labor.

I figure .20 is about 18 seconds.


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## jwjrw

Bob Badger said:


> I would think that installing two connectors per fixture instead of one would cost me .20 per fixture in labor.
> 
> I figure .20 is about 18 seconds.


You may be right. I've used both but for me its easier to use singles.


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## user4818

Bear in mind I'm just a residential romex racer, but if I was doing any commercial work and could spec the material to use, I'd use MC-Ap cable with duplex snap-tite connectors. In my mind, this would be the fastest way to terminate MC cable by far.


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## Vintage Sounds

I like dropping whips for each fixture since it seems "nicer" but, I can't imagine how piping and boxing THEN connecting each light to the box is faster than just jamming a couple pieces of BX into a double connector. I mean it might be reasonably fast if you had two guys on a lift, using a nail gun to quickly throw pipe across an open space but is it really cheaper when it requires two guys to be equally quick as a one-guy method? What if the space isn't open? Then you need a ladder and a bunch more time hacksawing and bending plus pulling the wire.

If the lights are on a MWBC then maybe the whip method reduces the chances of damage caused by a broken neutral somewhere in the chain?


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## McClary’s Electrical

MDShunk said:


> I've been using those snap-in MC connectors a lot lately, and I recently noticed that the duplex MC connectors are 4 cents a piece cheaper than buying two single MC connectors. Another reason to daisy-chain, and another reason to use duplex MC connectors. Plus, whipping to each fixture just seems like a heck of a waste of cable.


 
In a normale sixed office it's not a waste of cable. You set one 4x4 above ceiling in center.

You buy (4) 2x4 layins prewhipped and prelamped, you don;t have to open anything. Out of the box,lay in ceiling, whip each one into 4x4 with snap in connectors, 3 wire nuts for the whole office.


There is absolutey no way you can do it quicker by daisy chaining opening each light making splices. No way


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## CFL

We mostly run pipe, set boxes, install whips, 2-4 lights per box. It's definitely time consuming. Alot of specs won't allow more than a six foot whip, so I'm told. Alot of our foreman see the need to support every whip at two spots (once by each connector) which I think is extreme overkill. I have even seen them make guys shoot up grid wire for the extra support! My preference is j boxes and whips, but if given the choice, and I stood to make make more money (I'm not the boss), then of course I would daisy chain.


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## Zaped

*Finesse or quick & dirty supports for recessed/can lights ?*

Hey guys, what's acceptable for the supporting of a recessed light ( recessed light going in a room that will have a hard ceiling and not a drop ceiling ). Oftentimes the can lights come with bars to support the light fixture. But sometimes there are no support bars. Things can get dicey. I had one that had brackets on side of light fixture, but neither slide bars or anything else I had would fit well through the brackets, though I ended up using the slide bars (i.e., the slide bars othewise used to mount 4 in. square boxes in wall). But I wondered if some electricians might just remove the brackets from the sides of the recessed light fixture and go for attaching/screwing whatever scrap metal framing pieces (that might be lying around on the job) to the side of the recessed fixture, and going from there. That way would do away with the built in up/down adjustment in the fixture, but would cut to the chase as far as getting a solid mount of the fixture to the ceiling framing in a reasonable amount of time. I could write paragraphs of confusing description but suffice it to say that it was a b. trying to get the original brackets to work so to have the recessed fixture align flush with the ceiling. I wasted too much time. There has to be a quicker way. Do you guys sometimes resort to rigid mounting that elimnates the up/down adjustment in the recessed fixture ? I gotta find some faster way; otherwise the company will go broke on time taken to make recessed light mounting work. Is it normal approach to "to do whatever you gotta do" to just get the dang thing mounted, never mind finesse or looking pretty, etc? Just get the dang thing attached to ceiling? What would you say on this question ?


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## BBQ

mcclary's electrical said:


> There is absolutey no way you can do it quicker by daisy chaining opening each light making splices. No way


Whips are a waste.


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## McClary’s Electrical

Zaped said:


> Hey guys, what's acceptable for the supporting of a recessed light ( recessed light going in a room that will have a hard ceiling and not a drop ceiling ). Oftentimes the can lights come with bars to support the light fixture. But sometimes there are no support bars. Things can get dicey. I had one that had brackets on side of light fixture, but neither slide bars or anything else I had would fit well through the brackets, though I ended up using the slide bars (i.e., the slide bars othewise used to mount 4 in. square boxes in wall). But I wondered if some electricians might just remove the brackets from the sides of the recessed light fixture and go for attaching/screwing whatever scrap metal framing pieces (that might be lying around on the job) to the side of the recessed fixture, and going from there. That way would do away with the built in up/down adjustment in the fixture, but would cut to the chase as far as getting a solid mount of the fixture to the ceiling framing in a reasonable amount of time. I could write paragraphs of confusing description but suffice it to say that it was a b. trying to get the original brackets to work so to have the recessed fixture align flush with the ceiling. I wasted too much time. There has to be a quicker way. Do you guys sometimes resort to rigid mounting that elimnates the up/down adjustment in the recessed fixture ? I gotta find some faster way; otherwise the company will go broke on time taken to make recessed light mounting work. Is it normal approach to "to do whatever you gotta do" to just get the dang thing mounted, never mind finesse or looking pretty, etc? Just get the dang thing attached to ceiling? What would you say on this question ?


 
Wow that sounds ugly


BBQ said:


> Whips are a waste.


 
If there are more than 4 lights in the office, I daisy chain. If there are 4 or less, I set a 4x4, and land whips. 3 wirenuts for the entire office.


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## florida journeyman

I daiseychain except for track lighting, I am putting up about 150 feet of track in a department store, I'm not fighting all those starters with 6 conductors instead of 3.


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## Sparky208

We use all Lithonia Reloc for wiring drop in fixtures. We can Reloc fixtures so much faster then mc or whips out of boxes. I know they cost more money but you save it in labor cost.


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