# Car charger plug benefit of 14-50r or 6-50r?



## newbie44 (Jan 21, 2012)

This rant is mainly for us Canadians. I know things are different in the States regarding RV parks. But for Canadians, particularly Ontario, I see no benefit for a 14-50 over a 6-50 for a car charger.

If a customer has to choose between 14-50 or 6-50 for their charging circuit. What the heck is the benefit of a 14-50r over a 6-50r? I think with Tesla people keep hearing 14-50...14-50 but its only good for a stove. 6-50 is so much more versatile in someones garage.
6-50r can be used for heaters, welders, pottery kilns or any other heating circuits. Its also cheaper to install because there's no need for a neutral which EVs do not use anyway.


I can buy 2 wire teck cable for way less than 3 wire teck 90. The only time I can really see a need for 14-50 is if you own an RV and need to plug it in?


Finding a 14-50 industrial grade receptacle is rare and not cheap. I see installers using those plastic Leviton 14-50 stove receptacles for car chargers, are they crazy? Its a melt down waiting to happen!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Tesla promotes the 14-50 because they felt it was more common, there’s more of them existing now in a position where someone would plug their Tesla into. Their customers are far more likely to own an RV then a welder or kiln. 

It’s up to you to educate the customer, if you want to install a 6-50, explain to them why that’s better in your opinion. Tesla has options for almost any outlet type.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I get good pricing on Teck and there’s barely any difference in price between two wire and three wire. The last one I did, I grabbed a range receptacle out of the truck and wired it up with no neutral and labeled it “car charger”.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

newbie44 said:


> Finding a 14-50 industrial grade receptacle is rare and not cheap. I see installers using those plastic Leviton 14-50 stove receptacles for car chargers, are they crazy? Its a melt down waiting to happen!


I just read this part and I think it's insane.

I don't know what you consider an "industrial grade receptacle", but I have installed 50A Leviton, Eaton, Cooper, Hubbel, and whatever other normal brand the supply houses carry and never had an issue, nor do I expect one. 

The biggest load a car charger will typically draw thru a 50A receptacle is often 32A, sometimes up to 40A.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

newbie44 said:


> Finding a 14-50 industrial grade receptacle is rare and not cheap. I see installers using those plastic Leviton 14-50 stove receptacles for car chargers, are they crazy? Its a melt down waiting to happen!


Pics or it didn't happen!
There is no way in hell a properly installed receptacle rated for 50 amps will melt using 32 amps continuously. I can't begin imagine how how many receptacle fires there are and your area from cooking turkey dinners. :no::no:


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Details. 

Quote for the higher cost outcome, and run your circuit with a neutral. What receptacle to use is just a finishing detail.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Discussion with an inspector a couple of years ago (Ontario) stated that you cannot use the "stove" receptacle for the garage charger if it is surface mount such as this one 









you are required to use the surface mount type at 5 times the cost










Not because the "stove receptacle" was inferior for the task, but simply because it is designed for flush mount and not surface mount. Goes along with the argument that you cannot put a flush cover on an 1110 box, even though I have done it a million times without defect.

Cheers
John


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

My first thought was are customers that abusive that you need to install a pin & sleeve?
The Samsonite gorilla...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> Discussion with an inspector a couple of years ago (Ontario) stated that you cannot use the "stove" receptacle for the garage charger if it is surface mount such as this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

HackWork said:


> That range outlet/plate combo you have is Canadian only. I remember looking for it a few years ago and couldn’t it find available in the US. For a range outlet in the wall, we typically would use the same outlet that you used in your raised cover, only we would install a normal wall plate over it.


Not exactly what the OP is talking about; he is talking 2-wire vs 3-wire, but those "stove" and "dryer" receptacles we can get for a few loonies, where the other one is $25 bucks for the receptacle and another $5 for the cover...

Cheers
John


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

newbie44 said:


> This rant is mainly for us Canadians. I know things are different in the States regarding RV parks. But for Canadians, particularly Ontario, I see no benefit for a 14-50 over a 6-50 for a car charger.
> 
> If a customer has to choose between 14-50 or 6-50 for their charging circuit. What the heck is the benefit of a 14-50r over a 6-50r? I think with Tesla people keep hearing 14-50...14-50 but its only good for a stove. 6-50 is so much more versatile in someones garage. 6-50r can be used for heaters, welders, pottery kilns or any other heating circuits. Its also cheaper to install because there's no need for a neutral which EVs do not use anyway.
> 
> ...


There are several advantages to running a 3 wire vs a 2 wire cable. With a 2 wire cable, you're limited to either 240 ONLY loads (big welders, big heaters, EV charger, etc) OR large amperage 120 volt loads. Running a 3 wire cable increases the cost marginally, but allows for many other options should the client buy something else that they would need a receptacle for. Take your RV comment as an example. They have company stay over, and they want to plug in their RV. You can buy an adapter that goes from 14-50 to 30-TT or 5-15 or 5-20 from any RV store, and even Walmart or Canadian Tire!

A 14-50R will be wired with 3 wire cable. This gives you a neutral. Now, things like welders and heaters do not use a neutral, HOWEVER, there are mass produced adapters to go from a 14-50P to (for example) 6-50R. In fact, we have an adapter we made for ourselves just for that (we used an old stove whip, cut the neutral prong off, and put a 6-50 on the end. We do the same thing for another with 6-30 for construction heaters. Cutting off the neutral prong will allow the plug to plug into a 14-30, 14-50, and 14-60 receptacle).

With 3 wire, you could install a subpanel and install different receptacles ( i wont get into the whole "that circuit is for the EV charger only" discussion).

I, personally, have wired probably 100 TESLA Wall Connectors. Out of those, probably only about 5-8 have been done without a neutral, because they were installed with conduit.

Running a 3 conductor cable allows for them to change their minds on what they want down the road. In our cases, we were bidding against another company that was using 2 conductor cable, but we cut into our profits to install 3 conductor cable (mind you, 3 conductor AC90 is stock item, 2 conductor is not...) but installing that 3 conductor will allow for changing the receptacle to a different one down the road.

Now, slightly off topic, but relevant to this whole 14-50 discussion. I have a 50' and a 100' extension cord for 14-50 receptacles. We use these around our place with the welder, but i have used them on a few jobs. They're great because you can have a spider box (or in our case, a homemade "spider box"). They could also be used should a homeowner want to use a stove during a renovation, which is another argument I'd make towards the 14-50 being installed, because as you said, IT'S A RANGE RECEPTACLE! 

Oh, and if a receptacle isn't rated/won't stand up to it's rated capacity, something is wrong. I've seen several 6-30 and 6-50 receptacles melt, but that's due to them running heaters literally 24/7. An EV charger (shouldn't) run 24/7. It's also only an 80% load, so for a 50 amp receptacle, its only going to see 40 amps continously. If the standard range receptacle was going to burn up, I know a few that should have already.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Navyguy said:


> Discussion with an inspector a couple of years ago (Ontario) stated that you cannot use the "stove" receptacle for the garage charger if it is surface mount such as this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd have gotten a metal stove receptacle and let him argue with himself. 

I can see why he isn't okay with the plastic one (I've broken them...), but P&S makes metal ones (and they include 6-32 screws...?).


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

HackWork said:


> That range outlet/plate combo you have is Canadian only. I remember looking for it a few years ago and couldn’t it find available in the US. For a range outlet in the wall, we typically would use the same outlet that you used in your raised cover, only we would install a normal wall plate over it.


Only because we are talking about them...










Cheers
John


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Do they not sell these in Canada? No more than 13 US dollars and no need for a box or a cover. Comes with a cable clamp and a concentric knockout for 3/4 or 1 in.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

JoeSparky said:


> Do they not sell these in Canada? No more than 13 US dollars and no need for a box or a cover. Comes with a cable clamp and a concentric knockout for 3/4 or 1 in.


Yes, they do sell them...

I'd spend 50$ before using one of those...

I've installed a couple of them. The lay in lugs they have SUCK.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Yes, they do sell them...
> 
> I'd spend 50$ before using one of those...
> 
> I've installed a couple of them. The lay in lugs they have SUCK.


I’m not a fan of those, especially not for dryer receptacles that use 10 gauge wire. The wire always wants to move to the side of the screw lug.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I’m not a fan of those, especially not for dryer receptacles that use 10 gauge wire. The wire always wants to move to the side of the screw lug.
> 
> View attachment 144958


What's the jackleg neutral for if you have a ground in the cable?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

JoeSparky said:


> What's the jackleg neutral for if you have a ground in the cable?


Wouldn’t you like to know.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

JoeSparky said:


> What's the jackleg neutral for if you have a ground in the cable?


Don't ask silly questions.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Is an HVAC contractor troubleshooting your dryer outlets these days too?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Just put in the flat Cooper ones. They’re better all round than the chitty plastic Leviton ones anyway.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

99cents said:


> Just put in the flat Cooper ones. They’re better all round than the chitty plastic Leviton ones anyway.


Just wondering but have you ever come across this type of receptacle, with the built in metal plate, in a 6-50 configuration?


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## GABO_PANI2004 (9 mo ago)

Navyguy said:


> Discussion with an inspector a couple of years ago (Ontario) stated that you cannot use the "stove" receptacle for the garage charger if it is surface mount such as this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hi 

Is it true that we have to run 6/3 on a 50 amp breaker if we use de 14-50r ??? or can we just run 8/3 on a 50 amp breaker. if we follow the 75 degrees column in table 2. (am I right ? it is 60 or 75 ?)
all of this is for a car charger as well.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

The cable, receptacle and breaker have to match based on the specifications fo the charger and on the termination temp of whatever you are connecting.

Cheers
John


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