# Max # outlets



## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

If I remember correctly, although I don't do much commercial anymore mind you, I believe it is 8 but I'm sure theres exceptions blah blah blah, RandomKiller or 480sparky will probably drop in and give you a for sure on that. I've never gone over 8 and I've never been red tagged for 8 either


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

180va per outlet for a commercial job. Works out to 10 on a 15 amp circuit and 13 on a 20 amp circuit. Check with your local inspector, cause many of them add to the code and cut the number allowed.


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## wirenut1110 (Feb 12, 2008)

subelect said:


> Where is the requirement?
> 
> 220.14 (I) but read the whole article


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## subelect (Nov 25, 2007)

thanks for the info. That is what I needed.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

there is no limit. 220 is for load calculations. not an installation limit.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The jury is still out regarding the matter. It's a matter of interpretation of the Code.

While there's no limit to the number of outlets on a residential circuit, some claim the wording of Art 220 limits them to thirteen receptacles on a 20a circuit. Other say 220 is solely for the purpose of figuring the calculated load for the service, not for the load(s) being served.

If you want to take the time to wade through 220, let us know what your take on it is. 

Your AHJ may say different, though.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

first, read the scope of the section.

then realize, the chapter is laid out to accumulate loads, starting with branch circuits to feeders to services in a consecutive manner so as to ultimately determine the service itself.

With that said, through my apprenticeship and throughout my career, to date, I have never had anybody state the requirements of 220 were restrictive as to the installation of receptacles.

I do understand your points, I just don;t see it that way not has anybody I have dealt with.

anybody been over to Mike Holt's site to see what anybody there has said? 480sparky, you;re on that site aren;t you? Anybody seen an interpretion directly from Mike?


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

nap said:


> first, read the scope of the section.
> 
> then realize, the chapter is laid out to accumulate loads, starting with branch circuits to feeders to services in a consecutive manner so as to ultimately determine the service itself.
> 
> ...


Although I agree with you and 480, the inspectors where I'm located are placing a limit on the number of receptacles. They are good inspectors but guess they just see it one way.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

that happens.

I would like to see the NFPA interpretation or Mike Holts interpretation on this. It is apparently interpreted way too differently in different localities. There should not be such variation.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

In my part of Wyoming, I was always taught there is no restriction on #'s of receptacles spelled out anywhere in the NEC. My inspector interprets the same way, i.e. 180va per receptacle is for load calculation only. Not only that, but article 90.1 (C) states that the Code is not intended as a design manual.


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## chefsparky (Mar 22, 2008)

Ok so what about article 210 and table 210.24 seems to me like the code tells you the limt on how much you can put on a Branch circuit and the Kitchen circuits?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

chefsparky said:


> Ok so what about article 210 and table 210.24 seems to me like the code tells you the limt on how much you can put on a Branch circuit and the Kitchen circuits?


210.24 Starts out: The requirements for circuits that have *two or more receptacles*..... It doesn't care whether there 2 receps or 2000 on the circuit. Reads the same.... no limit.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

My take is no restriction on the number of outlets on a dwelling circuit. I do not allow article 220 arguements to be used to limit me, but I still like the 10/13 figure for the simple reason that it seems to work with no homeowner complaints. I have heard about areas of California where they try to limit it to 6 per circuit. In my opinion what you have there is a good example of allowing cousins to marry.


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## chefsparky (Mar 22, 2008)

So why do we limit what we put on circuits? And why dose the code not limit how much we put on a circuit?


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

chefsparky said:


> So why do we limit what we put on circuits? And why dose the code not limit how much we put on a circuit?


In a dwelling, the code does limit how much, but not how many.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

chefsparky said:


> So why do we limit what we put on circuits? And why dose the code not limit how much we put on a circuit?


because the code is not a design manual. it is up to the engineer or elelctrician to make a reasoanble call. If I am running housekeeping circuits for a hotel, it is not that critical since only one at a time on and given floor is typically in use at a time.

If I am installing a commercial kitchen, there are several areas that a single duplex has its own circuit. In other areas, 2 or 3 duplexes per circuit and in others, doesn;t really matter.

intent of use is much more important than an arbitrary designation of 180 va per duplex.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

chefsparky said:


> So why do we limit what we put on circuits? And why dose the code not limit how much we put on a circuit?


For the first part, becuase we give a crap about our work and want our customers to be happy and satisfied with the product we have supplied them. A cheap hack who wire to absolute bare-bones code minimum won't keep his customers.

For the second part, the code recognizes we are putting a load on the circuits, but the loads are not the receptacles. The receptacles consume no power. So it doesn't matter where along the circuit you plug in a load. If you plug in your vacuum cleaner, it doesn't matter whether there's 5 receps on the circuit or 50. Nor does it matter which recep in the circuit you plug into....the vac is the same load.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

480sparky said:


> For the first part, becuase we give a crap about our work and want our customers to be happy and satisfied with the product we have supplied them. A cheap hack who wire to absolute bare-bones code minimum won't keep his customers.
> 
> For the second part, the code recognizes we are putting a load on the circuits, but the loads are not the receptacles. The receptacles consume no power. So it doesn't matter where along the circuit you plug in a load. If you plug in your vacuum cleaner, it doesn't matter whether there's 5 receps on the circuit or 50. Nor does it matter which recep in the circuit you plug into....the vac is the same load.


Anymore these vacuums can draw more than 14 amps and I have seen more than one plugged in at one time in a long hotel hallway. I guess what I'm getting at is, we need to anticipate the load and plan accordingly.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> Anymore these vacuums can draw more than 14 amps and I have seen more than one plugged in at one time in a long hotel hallway. I guess what I'm getting at is, we need to anticipate the load and plan accordingly.


I've seen 14 amps on the nameplates of some vacuum cleaners but the question is that the real current draw, or some exaduration on the makers part so he sells more units?


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> Anymore these vacuums can draw more than 14 amps and I have seen more than one plugged in at one time in a long hotel hallway. I guess what I'm getting at is, we need to anticipate the load and plan accordingly.


Exactly. You could serve 600 sqft with a 15A or 800 sqft with a 20A, but in reality you don't ever do that. I lay out circuits based on anticipated load, but also for organizational reasons as well.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Mountain Electrician said:


> Exactly. You could serve 600 sqft with a 15A or 800 sqft with a 20A, but in reality you don't ever do that. I lay out circuits based on anticipated load, but also for organizational reasons as well.


We work in places all the time that have tried to stick with those square footages. I was in a Verizon mechanical room yesterday, @ 30' x 60' with one 20 amp duplex at the opposite end of where I needed a drop light. I would never leave a job with a layout like that. You need to think about use and load as you say.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I've seen 14 amps on the nameplates of some vacuum cleaners but the question is that the real current draw, or some exaduration on the makers part so he sells more units?



I see you are a true sceptic. I do understand though.


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