# Grounding in boxes used for pulling.



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

The only way this would be required is if the conduit is non-metallic and the box is metallic.

If you are using all metallic conduit, boxes, and fittings, you don't even have to pull an EGC.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Who the hell would put a metallic box on non-metallic conduit ?


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

250.148


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Who the hell would put a metallic box on non-metallic conduit ?


Done it a bunch of times with PVC and non metallic sealtite. What do you think you are doing when you use a PVC riser on a service or PVC feeder to a panel...


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## Sparkythao (Mar 26, 2013)

Even though code says that metallic conduit is sufficient, any good electrician/contractor would run a ground wire with all their pulls. Code section 250.148, so it doesn't need to be splice with box ground if there's no ungrounded, or grounded wires spliced either?


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Sparkythao said:


> Even though code says that metallic conduit is sufficient, any good electrician/contractor would run a ground wire with all their pulls.


LOL...keep justifying wasting money.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Sparkythao said:


> Even though code says that metallic conduit is sufficient, any good electrician/contractor would run a ground wire with all their pulls.


 If you feel that way, you might as well bond the box.

After all,if you pull it in, you might as well hook it up to something.


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## Sparkythao (Mar 26, 2013)

Deep Cover said:


> LOL...keep justifying wasting money.


Money for a ground wire is not much compared to safety. Keep relying on your conduits, people can easily step, pull on it and your connection is gone.


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## Sparkythao (Mar 26, 2013)

Awg-Dawg said:


> If you feel that way, you might as well bond the box.
> 
> After all,if you pull it in, you might as well hook it up to something.


I do feel that way, just wondering if there's a code section on that.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Who the hell would put a metallic box on non-metallic conduit ?


done everyday with meters


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Who the hell would put a metallic box on non-metallic conduit ?


I would, have and will again. I always run an EGC though.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Sparkythao said:


> Keep relying on your conduits, people can easily step, pull on it and your connection is gone.


 With this logic, you should bond the box.


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

Awg-Dawg said:


> *With *this *logic,* you should bond the box.


Problem solved. Plus, you are there already, pull a loop, strip it, green screw it, lid the box, profit. 2 minutes max.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Sparkythao said:


> Money for a ground wire is not much compared to safety. Keep relying on your conduits, people can easily step, pull on it and your connection is gone.


More often then not when I go to fix damaged and pulled apart conduits I find the wire EGC ripped loose too. 

Like this










Conduit pulled apart by a forklift, broke wire EGC connections too, fault continued to arc till someone killed the panel.


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## Mel Gibson (Mar 16, 2013)

was it the old push-a-matic breakers?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Sparkythao said:


> Even though code says that metallic conduit is sufficient, any good electrician/contractor would run a ground wire with all their pulls. Code section 250.148, so it doesn't need to be splice with box ground if there's no ungrounded, or grounded wires spliced either?


 
That is a dumb (hate to rag on a new member) statement, if it is not in the bid you would pull an EGC?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Sparkythao said:


> Money for a ground wire is not much compared to safety. Keep relying on your conduits, people can easily step, pull on it and your connection is gone.


 
4-sets of parallel 500kcmil an extra 4 EGC's sized properly is not that much, you are not a contractor.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

I forgot to add a highly sarcastic smiley...or is this it ? :whistling2:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> 4-sets of parallel 500kcmil an extra 4 EGC's sized properly is not that much, you are not a contractor.


What about, more realistically, one set of #12's in a ½" Emt? I know 358.60 allows it but I would never do it. I can understand on larger parallel runs but not on the smaller ones. Code is the minimum standard


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

wendon said:


> Code is the minimum standard


I agree and as contractors have told me its usually the_ minimum bid_ that gets the job.

Pete


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

wendon said:


> What about, more realistically, one set of #12's in a ½" Emt? I know 358.60 allows it but I would never do it. I can understand on larger parallel runs but not on the smaller ones. Code is the minimum standard



That is NOT realistic in my business, we typically do not run 1/2" EMT, any work we are involved in involves large feeders.
Just had to replace a 3000 amp feeder from the basement across 150' of garage then up 12 floors (total length 375') Engineer spec'd 10 sets of 500 kcmil with 500 kcmil EGC and we pulled EGC as specified. But would you if the owner opted to save money?
10x375=3750' - 500 kcmil? You eat that if you like, not me. Add on jobs were we do the design we always add a copper ECG due to our clients normal designs.


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## Sparkythao (Mar 26, 2013)

brian john said:


> 4-sets of parallel 500kcmil an extra 4 EGC's sized properly is not that much, you are not a contractor.


No EGC for service pull??


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Sparkythao said:


> No EGC for service pull??


It's an equipment ground he's referring to. In that instance probably a 4/0. One of those in every run adds up quick. And maybe it's just me but the bigger the load or equipment to be served the farther away it is from the source. I never get lucky.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> That is NOT realistic in my business, we typically do not run 1/2" EMT, any work we are involved in involves large feeders.
> Just had to replace a 3000 amp feeder from the basement across 150' of garage then up 12 floors (total length 375') Engineer spec'd 10 sets of 500 kcmil with 500 kcmil EGC and we pulled EGC as specified. But would you if the owner opted to save money?
> 10x375=3750' - 500 kcmil? You eat that if you like, not me. Add on jobs were we do the design we always add a copper ECG due to our clients normal designs.


So you're saying you use the conduit for your 4th wire?


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Sparkythao said:


> Do you need to splice and bond the Egc to the metal box even though your just using it as a pull point and pull straight through without any service loops. Also I've heard you have to, only if your saving a service loop in that box but no, if your not. I believe to do it for either way. If there's a code section, please quote. Thanks.


As long as your phase conductors are feeding through and unbroken , and your raceways are metallic point to point , bonding the box is not required . You can certainly do it if you want , but you don't have to . I'm also a big fan of pulling an EGC in along with phase conductors as well . It's just something that's always been specked by engineers on larger jobs . If its my job and I'm buying the wire and its me getting the job next to the guy who doesn't plan on pulling an EGC , I may rethink that ? Doing things just to code , or exceeding the code in most cases , gets you or doesn't get you the job .


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Sparkythao said:


> No EGC for service pull??


 
Was not a service.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

wendon said:


> So you're saying you use the conduit for your 4th wire?


 MY NEUTRAL No but in EGC I would.

If it ain't spec'd and it is coming out of my pocket to add it, Conduit is more than adequate.
What most of you are not even considering is in a typical concrete structure, with EMT, rebar or structural steel, metal ducts, metal studs, copper water piping, steel sprinkler piping, it is almost impossible to have POOR FAULT RETURN PATH.
But if you read my full statement, it says generally if we are doing a no bid job it will get an EGC, because that is what is existing or what our customers expect. Most of my customers are data centers, hospitals and the government and it is the norm for them.

And another but, if you actually investigated the studies done on this you would see you are voting with your feelings and not the facts.
I do not care if you do or don’t install an EGC, but do not think you are some high and mighty do gooder electrician because you do.


3750x$8.50=$31,875, you williing to cough up that cash when it is not required?


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