# 2017 NEC handbook



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

IMO, the handbook could sell for any price they want. It's the NEC that should be free. A private organization shouldn't be profiting off of showing us the law that we are required to follow.

That's why I haven't and will never again pay for the NEC.


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## knomore (Mar 21, 2010)

Yeah. No. $200 for a book that last three years isn't that bad. I paid a hell of a lot more for textbooks I used for three months when I went to college.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> The 2017 NEC handbook is $200 ****ing dollars. That is more than I pay for my Contractors license.
> I think this code thing is really getting out of hand.


I have a pdf of the handbook for the 2011 nec and I have looked at it 2 or 3 times


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

i would imagine it costs $200 to make. i think all nfpa material is at good prices. they do provide some free information as well, check out there site sometime.


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## MWayne (Nov 8, 2010)

I just ordered 9, 2017 books and NEC tabs for less than $900 altogether from Summit Electric in Ft Worth.
I tried to get the boss to wait knowing that the early printings are error filled but he wanted to get them anyway while still had money in the reference materials budget.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

HackWork said:


> IMO, the handbook could sell for any price they want. It's the NEC that should be free. A private organization shouldn't be profiting off of showing us the law that we are required to follow.
> 
> That's why I haven't and will never again pay for the NEC.


It is free. Just not in a version that is useable.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

I just paid $165 with shipping for NFPA 72 handbook. never purchased fire alarm code book . it's been very educational . but $200 yikes! I just got the notice for my favorite required 15 hour new code update class and it's over $200 with book. it really annoys me seeing the unlicensed workers my employer hires to work as unsupervised electricians while we have to pay for code books and continuing education courses.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

HackWork said:


> IMO, the handbook could sell for any price they want. It's the NEC that should be free. A private organization shouldn't be profiting off of showing us the law that we are required to follow.
> 
> That's why I haven't and will never again pay for the NEC.


So all of the law books having all of the federal, state and local statutes should be free to everyone? Those books are all copyrighted and published by private companies too.
The courts only require "free access" and that does not mean you get a free physical or electronic copy. It means that there is a physical location where you can go to get "free access" to the laws.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> So all of the law books having all of the federal, state and local statutes should be free to everyone?


The book form? No, it should cost what it costs to bind the book itself, not a huge profit to a private company. The information should also be freely available everywhere without jumping thru hoops.



> Those books are all copyrighted and published by private companies too.


 The second they become law they should lose their copyright. That is BS to copyright something and then have the government force us to buy it.



> The courts only require "free access" and that does not mean you get a free physical or electronic copy. It means that there is a physical location where you can go to get "free access" to the laws.


The "courts" are half of the problem here.

Like I said, this is all a scam, no different than the crooks on the CMP making code to force us to buy more expensive products from the manufacturers that hand them the envelopes of cash under the table.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Every three years I am required to attend an 8 hour code update class. The rule is you have to show up on time, or you can't enter the room, and you must carry in a copy of the current code book the class is based on. Handbooks don't count, it has to be the NEC. Its fun to watch one or two guys walk in with handbooks when the entrance applications clearly state handbooks don't meet the class requirement and those guys have to leave and re-submit and pay twice.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

HackWork said:


> The book form? No, it should cost what it costs to bind the book itself, not a huge profit to a private company. The information should also be freely available everywhere without jumping thru hoops.


In the case of the NEC, the cost of actually producing the book, is a very small part of the total expense to produce the code. Freely available is a very subject term, but all of the NFPA codes and standards can be viewed on their website for free....not a very user friendly system, but anyone can view all of their codes and standards if they have internet access.



> The second they become law they should lose their copyright. That is BS to copyright something and then have the government force us to buy it.


Actually they laws are not copyrighted when they are passed, they are only copyrighted by the publisher



> ...
> Like I said, this is all a scam, no different than the crooks on the CMP making code to force us to buy more expensive products from the manufacturers that hand them the e*nvelopes of cash* under the table.


Please submit your documented evidence of that to you local states attorney.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> In the case of the NEC, the cost of actually producing the book, is a very small part of the total expense to produce the code.


 I don't care. Once it becomes law, it should be freely available for everyone.



> Actually they laws are not copyrighted when they are passed, they are only copyrighted by the publisher


 Huh? That clearly went right over your head.

The text that becomes law should be not copyrighted. 

I can't go out and make the electrical rules we have to follow into a free pamphlet and hand it out to everyone because it's been copyrighted.



> Please submit your documented evidence of that to you local states attorney.


 If I had proof you would be in prison already.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I don't care. Once it becomes law, it should be freely available for everyone.


You said they don't have to provide you with free law books for all of the state and federal laws so how is the code different? It is freely available on the NFPA site.



> Huh? That clearly went right over your head.
> 
> The text that becomes law should be not copyrighted.


But that is not how it works with the state and federal statutes...if you want a physical copy, you have to buy a book from a publisher and the publisher holds the copyright. Maybe it should be different, but it isn't.

...


> If I had proof you would be in prison already.


I have no idea of what you are talking about....I have nothing to do with the NFPA and am not even a member of the organization. The only connection that I have is the same as yours...I use the code that they publish.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> You said they don't have to provide you with free law books for all of the state and federal laws so how is the code different?


 I didn't say that. My words are clear, go back and read them.



> But that is not how it works with the state and federal statutes...if you want a physical copy, you have to buy a book from a publisher and the publisher holds the copyright. Maybe it should be different, but it isn't.


 Again, I was very clear when I said it was a corrupt system. There is absolutely no justification in having a private corporation hold a copyright and make huge profits by selling us the laws that we have to follow. 

If we have to follow a certain set of electrical codes, then a teacher should be able to print out copies of those codes and give them to the students. The students shouldn't have to pay astronomical prices for those codes. The fact that they do shows the corruption.


> I have no idea of what you are talking about....I have nothing to do with the NFPA and am not even a member of the organization. The only connection that I have is the same as yours...I use the code that they publish.


Excuse me, I thought you said that you were on a CMP. If not, then I will allow them to spare you when they finally crack down on this criminal activity.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I didn't say that. My words are clear, go back and read them.
> ...


Yes they are very clear...


> The book form? No,...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Yes they are very clear...


Why don't you finish the quote instead of being disingenuous?

The fact that you left it out shows that you k ow you don't have a leg to stand on.

Here:



> The book form? No, *it should cost what it costs to bind the book itself, not a huge profit to a private company*. The information should also be freely available everywhere without jumping thru hoops.


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## Wirenut951 (Aug 3, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> The 2017 NEC handbook is $200 ****ing dollars. That is more than I pay for my Contractors license.
> I think this code thing is really getting out of hand.


I got a good condition paperback copy of the 2014 on Amazon for around $40. By the time the 2017 code is the standard Im sure you will be able to find it much cheaper.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I don't care. Once it becomes law, it should be freely available for everyone.
> 
> The text that becomes law should be not copyrighted.
> 
> NFPA has no say if the NEC becomes law in your area or not. They should not give up their copyrights if your locale decides to use the document they produced. They are a private company creating a document that anybody can use. If you want it for free, your b*tch should be with whatever municipality that makes it the law.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mulder said:


> NFPA has no say if the NEC becomes law in your area or not. They should not give up their copyrights if your locale decides to use the document they produced. They are a private company creating a document that anybody can use. If you want it for free, your b*tch should be with whatever municipality that makes it the law.


Bologna. The NFPA lobbies (i.e. pays off politicians) to have it's publications used. 

My "b*tch" is with the entire system of corruption that you sit by and watch, and defend.

But go ahead and tell me again how the government forcing you at gunpoint to purchase a private company's products at exorbitant prices, even as far as just learning the law, is a fair and balanced practice


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I've gotten the handbook the last three editions. I'm simple and find the extra text and diagrams useful. Two enthralling days of confusion scheduled for sometime in Feb.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> I've gotten the handbook the last three editions. I'm simple and find the extra text and diagrams useful. Two enthralling days of confusion scheduled for sometime in Feb.


You should give McGraw-Hill handbook a try. Since none of the extra text in either book is enforceable. And then buy the paper back for on the job and the code update class. 

The McGraw-Hill book has even more than the hand book. The one thing it doesn't have is the NEC text, because that is copyrighted.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Wirenut951 said:


> I got a good condition paperback copy of the 2014 on Amazon for around $40. By the time the 2017 code is the standard Im sure you will be able to find it much cheaper.


We adopt the new code almost right away. My city on the first and the state usually just a couple months later when the legislature adopts it.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Why don't you finish the quote instead of being disingenuous?
> 
> The fact that you left it out shows that you k ow you don't have a leg to stand on.
> 
> Here:


The rest of your quote has nothing to do with it...it addresses a cost factor and was not part of the answer to my question.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The rest of your quote has nothing to do with it...it addresses a cost factor and was not part of the answer to my question.


The rest of my quote had everything to do with it, and it answered your question in a way that you can't refute. It was easier for you to just edit it out.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

HackWork said:


> The rest of my quote had everything to do with it, and it answered your question in a way that you can't refute. It was easier for you to just edit it out.


What ever!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> What ever!


That attitude of ignoring the corruption is the only reason why we have it.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So.....i need handbooks...anyone gotta good source?

~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> So.....i need handbooks...anyone gotta good source?
> 
> ~CS~


I don't have a 2017 or else I would email it to you. Maybe someone else does.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I am gonna try the regular code book and the mgraw hill edition of the handbook. same price but then NFPA isn't getting all my money.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Remember the good old days when Romex Racer's server used to get hacked all the time and we got sent copies of the latest code from those same hackers?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Remember the good old days when Romex Racer's server used to get hacked all the time and we got sent copies of the latest code from those same hackers?


Yea but you quit doing that or the system out grew you.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Is $180 for a hardbound Hbook a good buy?
~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Not sure but another copy will be in the van. It works for me. It is what it is. I prefer paper over cd and laptop when I can get it.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

cabletie said:


> You should give McGraw-Hill handbook a try. Since none of the extra text in either book is enforceable. And then buy the paper back for on the job and the code update class.
> 
> The McGraw-Hill book has even more than the hand book. The one thing it doesn't have is the NEC text, because that is copyrighted.


That seems like it would be a pain in the ass without the code text. Do you have to toggle back and forth?


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Just use it when you want an in depth explanation of a code article, or read it like a book not a reference book. Here is what 210.12 looks like from the "08 book. That is the only PDF version that I have. 

210.12. Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter Protection. The arc-fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) devices are similar to, but different from, the more commonly recognized GFCIs. But while the GFCI operates on the basis that any current difference between the hot and the neutral (or the hot and the hot for 250-V single-phase devices) greater than 5 mA is “unauthorized” current flow to ground, causing it to open the circuit under such conditions, the AFCI operates to open the circuit either on a low-level current imbalance exceeding about 30 mA or when it senses a specific waveform anomaly that is indicative of an arcing fault.
Advances in electronics have made it possible for the internal chip to recog- nize the specific waveform characteristics of an arcing-type fault and to operate a mechanical ratchet to open the circuit, thereby providing a greater level of protection against the potential for shock, electrocution, and property damage that these typically high-impedance, low-current malfunctions can present.
There are two broad classifications of arcing failures that can be addressed by AFCI technology, namely, a line-to-line or line-to-ground failure that can occur in parallel with a connected load or even with no energized load in operation, or a failure between two severed ends of the same conductor, or at a poor con- nection point for such a conductor, either one in series with a connected load. The first AFCI devices in wide usage, configured as an additional tripping pro- vision in certain circuit breakers (and designated as “Branch/Feeder AFCIs” by UL), addressed the more common parallel events only, and the NEC permitted the use of this more limited protection until January 1, 2008. Meanwhile, the only design that addressed the series failure was configured as part of a duplex receptacle akin to a GFCI receptacle. These are designated by UL as an “Outlet/ Branch Circuit AFCI,” and if located as the first outlet on a branch circuit, pro- vide series protection for the entire branch circuit and parallel protection for all downstream portions of the circuit.
The “outlet/branch-circuit” devices have not, as of this writing been com- mercially manufactured although prototypes exist and at least one manufac- turer has a listing. The reason for this is the restrictive nature of the NEC conditions for which such a device is permitted to qualify as the required AFCI protection for a branch circuit. Under the 2005 NEC the device had to be located not over 6 ft from the point of branch circuit origination with the distance to be measured along the conductors, and metallic wiring methods employed between the two locations. Under the 2008 NEC, the distance can be of any length, but the wiring methods must be steel, either as a cable assembly (e.g., steel Type AC, but not the usual Type MC with aluminum armoring) or as one of three specified steel tubular raceways (IMC, RMC, or EMT) but not, technically, wireways or other wiring methods even if made of steel. It remains to be seen whether this will be a sufficient concession to bring these devices to market.
Wiring to a fire alarm system can omit AFCI protection entirely, provided the same wiring methods are used. Remember that this reference is to a full red-box fire alarm control panel governed by Art. 760, and not the usual 120 V recipro- cally alarming residential smoke detector installation.
Effective January 1, 2008 under the 2005 NEC, and also as incorporated into the 2008 NEC, AFCI protective devices must combine the best protective fea- tures of both parallel and series protective devices. These devices are what the NEC refers to as “combination-type” to refer to both parallel and series arcing failures. This designation has nothing to do with a device that provides both AFCI and GFCI protection, although the technology is mutually compatible, and devices that provide both shock protection and arc-fault mitigation are available from some manufacturers.
Arc-fault circuit interrupters are now required (2008 NEC) to protect all cir- cuits that supply outlets (receptacle and lighting) in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun- rooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas. Most receptacle outlets in bathrooms, basements, kitchens, garages, and outdoors require GFCI protection. The result is that virtually every outlet in a dwelling unit must now have some form of residual current detection, and in most areas a failure in the branch-circuit wiring itself will also be detected and opened. Although it would be theoretically possible to omit protection of a lighting cir- cuit that only served a kitchen or bathroom or both, as a practical matter all gen- eral-purpose lighting and receptacle outlets throughout the entire dwelling must be protected on installations governed by the 2008 NEC and thereafter.
Not all manufacturers are currently making two-pole AFCI circuit breakers, although that will probably change with time. This is important because, just as in the case of GFCI protection, a two-pole device is required to be used with a multiwire branch circuit. Some, but not all manufacturers make AFCIs in bolt- on configurations frequently specified for commercial and multifamily resi- dential applications. Of course, the bolt-on configuration can be used anywhere but it is more prevalent in the larger quasi-commercial applications. Until the supply chain becomes completely up to speed on current applications, this will be an issue, particularly on retrofits. Note that at least one manufacturer of two- pole AFCIs also makes classified AFCI circuit breakers that are rated for a num- ber of competitors’ panels, so that could be another way out for now. Note that such classification ratings are limited to some extent, particularly for applica- tions involving available fault currents over 10 kA.


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