# NAVFAC apprenticeship



## Cam3848

I'm currently Active Duty Air Force and I separate this October (did not work an electrical job). I'm looking to become an electrician as a civilian. Recently, I applied for a NAVFAC SW apprenticeship program and was selected to take a civil service exam. NAVFAC sounds like a great option because it is federal Govt work that is secure and I get to learn the trade! I'd there anyone out there that works for NAVFAC or can say a few words about being a tradesmen for them? 
It would be great to talk to somebody about NAVFAC life!


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## MikeFL

Thank you for your service and welcome to the forums.

I know nothing about the program you are referencing but there are some vets on this forum. Hopefully someone will be along who can provide some insight.


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## Bird dog

I'm not familiar with the program, but, the Navy usually has top notch training. For me the main thing is...
4) Promote to the Journeyman level (with Department of Labor certification) 

https://www.navfac.navy.mil/navfac_worldwide/pacific/fecs/southwest/careers/apprentice_program.html


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## Chops146

IIRC, NAVFAC jobs run a sister program with the USMAP program. That is a DOL registered apprenticeship. If the facility you're at has a CBU, or any Seabee unit, the training officer may be able to point you in the right direction.


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## Wirenuting

Cam3848 said:


> I'm currently Active Duty Air Force and I separate this October (did not work an electrical job). I'm looking to become an electrician as a civilian. Recently, I applied for a NAVFAC SW apprenticeship program and was selected to take a civil service exam. NAVFAC sounds like a great option because it is federal Govt work that is secure and I get to learn the trade! I'd there anyone out there that works for NAVFAC or can say a few words about being a tradesmen for them?
> It would be great to talk to somebody about NAVFAC life!


Yes , get into the apprenticeship program if you can.

NAVFAC is a great place to work. 

Ok, since your active duty and have a while to go, here is what I suggest. 
Talk to your transitional adviser. You can apply for and be offered a federal position when you have 6 months left of obligated service. So you have time.

Next go to Usajobs.gov and do a job search for all agencies at the zip code your wanting to work at. You will see a listing for current open positions. 
Next search again as a current federal employee. This will result in more positions open. We hire and promote from within when possible. 

The last time we did this type of program the folks who came in started out with a target trade. The pay grade starting was a WG-5 then they went to an WG-8 and finally a WG-10 journeymen.
Our electrician workers are all WG-8's and electricians are WG-10's. The pay scale is based on your location. 

If you can get into the apprenticeship program, do it. 

If you can apply for and qualify for a higher position, do it. Your military service time counts towards pay and retirement and other benefits.


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## Wirenuting

Bird dog said:


> I'm not familiar with the program, but, the Navy usually has top notch training. For me the main thing is...
> 4) Promote to the Journeyman level (with Department of Labor certification)
> 
> https://www.navfac.navy.mil/navfac_worldwide/pacific/fecs/southwest/careers/apprentice_program.html


It's an different kind of DoL chert and course they get. 
The site you linked to is for the southwestern NAVFAC, we are all over. 
It's not Navy Training like you think.. Navy schools are different in how we train. This program is run by NAVFAC with the DoL and classrooms time is with a civilian contractor, i.e., local collage. The unions outside the fence do not support the program with training sadly. 

Im glad to see he's trying to get in... We need people. It takes so long to recruit and get someone in the house that when someone backs out or falls to show up, the process starts all over again.


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## Bird dog

Wirenuting said:


> It's an different kind of DoL chert and course they get.
> The site you linked to is for the southwestern NAVFAC, we are all over.
> It's not Navy Training like you think.. Navy schools are different in how we train. This program is run by NAVFAC with the DoL and classrooms time is with a civilian contractor, i.e., local collage. The unions outside the fence do not support the program with training sadly.
> 
> Im glad to see he's trying to get in... We need people. It takes so long to recruit and get someone in the house that when someone backs out or falls to show up, the process starts all over again.


Alright. Does he get 8,000hrs of training with the cert, so, if he wanted to he could apply for a state jcard?


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## Wirenuting

Bird dog said:


> Alright. Does he get 8,000hrs of training with the cert, so, if he wanted to he could apply for a state jcard?


I don't have that answer for his location. 

Here we don't have a state license. 
For the trades that a state requires a license the hours were non-transferable towards any outside union or license. 

Now if he gets hired in, regardless as to the state he resides in, he is not required to possess a state license. He can go and work on any federal property they send him to, Same as myself. 
Federal employees are authorized to work on outside civilian locations only under special authority.. ie: New Orleans after Katrenia. Yes we sent some of our guys down there. 

If he wants to preform outside work after working hours he would be required by his state to follow all laws applicable. 

The nice thing about federal employment is that if they close the facility were I work, they are determined to find me continuing federal employment at another location when possible.. I might get lucky and be transferred to Pearl Harbor, or some dismal Alaskan location..

As an example when they closed the shipyard in Guam one of their guys came here to the Midwest. He spent the next 20 years trying to get back home. He finally found a position 2 weeks ago.. But sadly he also just had his first grand daughter and his wife said,, we ain't leaving the baby. He's buying a new snowblower this week.


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## Chops146

This one I do know. If you get your journeyman card with a DOL registered apprenticeship, then the local has to give you the journeyman test if you apply as long as it's in the same OPM classification. We have a local brother that came in that way.


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## Wirenuting

Chops146 said:


> This one I do know. If you get your journeyman card with a DOL registered apprenticeship, then the local has to give you the journeyman test if you apply as long as it's in the same OPM classification. We have a local brother that came in that way.


Into 134 or 150?


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## MechanicalDVR

Welcome aboard @Cam3848!

I have worked with a lot of these guys on many different bases/facilities on the east coast. All of the guys come off as knowledgeable, seem to enjoy their jobs, and work environment. Take wirenuting's advice and do some job hunting and apply in a location that suits you.

Best of luck in your new endeavor!


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## just the cowboy

*I served my apprentiship this way*



Bird dog said:


> Alright. Does he get 8,000hrs of training with the cert, so, if he wanted to he could apply for a state jcard?



I did the DOD apprenticeship program, it was great. 


Yes my hours and training counted, I came out with a journeyman card and was able to get it recognized by IBEW, I had an IBEW 902 card but could not go on the books as I was a government employee . I may find out soon if it is good for my journeyman card for Colorado but everyone I talked to said it should be since it is an approved apprenticeship. 


My apprenticeship was as a WG11 industrial electrical/electronics control mechanic (IEECM). If you can find this one go for it, it was machine repair.
Good luck
Cowboy


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## Chops146

Wirenuting said:


> Into 134 or 150?


Any local. It's a DOL requirement for registered apprenticeships.


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## Wirenuting

Chops146 said:


> Any local. It's a DOL requirement for registered apprenticeships.


Those locals wouldn’t recognize the program we had here about 8 years ago. 
Sadly the training and hours they received were only good enough for the feds. 
The locals wanted the $$$ to do the training and it was shot down. 

It sounds like they’ve done better since then setting them up. I’m glad to hear that. 

Anyway it goes, gettin a federal position is a plus when your young. We need people badly. They also have a new policy. If a journeymen is with in 2 years of retirement they will attempt to hire his replacement. That gives the new guy time to learn... ie: coffee is two rounded scoops per 12 cup pots and donuts need to be powered jelly.


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## Chops146

Wirenuting said:


> Those locals wouldn’t recognize the program we had here about 8 years ago.
> Sadly the training and hours they received were only good enough for the feds.
> The locals wanted the $$$ to do the training and it was shot down.
> 
> It sounds like they’ve done better since then setting them up. I’m glad to hear that.
> 
> Anyway it goes, gettin a federal position is a plus when your young. We need people badly. They also have a new policy. If a journeymen is with in 2 years of retirement they will attempt to hire his replacement. That gives the new guy time to learn... ie: coffee is two rounded scoops per 12 cup pots and donuts need to be powered jelly.


IIRC the federal and military apprenticeships used to let you choose between 47-2110 or 47-2111 classification or just did 47-2110. The inside apprenticeship is 47-2111, so a DOL journeyman card in 47-2110 meant nothing by way of obligation. Since then, 47-2110 has been relegated to a place holder and all inside electricians are classified 47-2111.


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## Cam3848

Everyone,
Thank you for all the responses! I look forward to taking the test and continuing the application process. I think this is a great opportunity.


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## Cam3848

@Wirenuting , does NAVFAC do a lot of facility maintenance? Or do their tradesmen also participate in new construction projects (like the regular IBEW guys) ?


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## MechanicalDVR

Cam3848 said:


> @Wirenuting , does NAVFAC do a lot of facility maintenance? Or do their tradesmen also participate in new construction projects (like the regular IBEW guys) ?


From the facilities I have worked on with them they only handle work/projects up to a $10k value, after that it's hired out.


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## Cam3848

MechanicalDVR said:


> Cam3848 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Wirenuting , does NAVFAC do a lot of facility maintenance? Or do their tradesmen also participate in new construction projects (like the regular IBEW guys) ?
> 
> 
> 
> From the facilities I have worked on with them they only handle work/projects up to a $10k value, after that it's hired out.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I wonder if their apprentices learn as much as IBEW union apprentices.


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## MechanicalDVR

Cam3848 said:


> Interesting, I wonder if their apprentices learn as much as IBEW union apprentices.


I highly doubt that.

IBEW apprenticeship is considered the best.


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## Wirenuting

Cam3848 said:


> @Wirenuting , does NAVFAC do a lot of facility maintenance? Or do their tradesmen also participate in new construction projects (like the regular IBEW guys) ?


It depends on the size of the facility your at.
Some facilities are small enough that 90% of the work gets contracted out. 
Some facilities have only a contract site manager who oversees the work contracts. 

Ours is big and we do all the maintenance, repairs, all service calls, most construction projects.. We no longer build buildings as our work force is to small.. We stopped doing that stuff in the late 80's.


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## Wirenuting

MechanicalDVR said:


> From the facilities I have worked on with them they only handle work/projects up to a $10k value, after that it's hired out.


$10k?
That must be smaller sites. Our basic service call threshold is about $8k. Then we bump the job into the next catagory of work order. That has a higher threshold before it hits a "project" level.. The last big job I was on 3 years ago was a 1.5m+ remodel of a building. (Nothing gold plated fancy).
Our biggest deciding factor for contracting out smaller stuff is,, can we meet the customers "required" completion date.. 
Or, if it's an emergency and we can't do it for lack of skills or material, we will contract it out the same day if needed. We do very little of that kind of contracting out..


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## MechanicalDVR

Wirenuting said:


> $10k?
> That must be smaller sites. Our basic service call threshold is about $8k. Then we bump the job into the next catagory of work order. That has a higher threshold before it hits a "project" level.. The last big job I was on 3 years ago was a 1.5m+ remodel of a building. (Nothing gold plated fancy).
> Our biggest deciding factor for contracting out smaller stuff is,, can we meet the customers "required" completion date..
> Or, if it's an emergency and we can't do it for lack of skills or material, we will contract it out the same day if needed. We do very little of that kind of contracting out..


On the sites I've been on I believe the term they use for a job over $10k is an IJO (Individual Job Order) and the onsite guys bid it just like outside contractors (so I have been told).


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## just the cowboy

MechanicalDVR said:


> I highly doubt that.
> 
> IBEW apprenticeship is considered the best.


I would challenge that. My apprenticeship had me doing much more than an IBEW would have exposure to. I had to do all the pipe work and calcautions for service feeders. But we did 
Residential
Commercial office buildings
Industrial installs
Motor rewind and repair
Controls 
Electronics
And much more. 

Yes IBEW has a good training program but you can get training but no real experience in allot of things. I here it on here all the time I only get to do this or that because that’s all the contractor does.


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## 3rd Rail

Cam3848 said:


> Interesting, I wonder if their apprentices learn as much as IBEW union apprentices.



Not even close, barely if not 0 rotations to learn from different people.
When I was in Local 3 there were more than a 100 journeyman to work with and learn from, most had a different unique and efficient method/technique to get a task done.


The feds' work will depend on what their mission is related to, such as providing support to the air-force so they can complete their day to day activity. And if that's the case, it can be specifically related to their aircraft or other equipment, and most of the time what and who you'll be learning from is related to a current military MOS, or AFSC. 



Now that I'm into the Federal apprenticeship, there are only 2 journeyman to learn from, one doesn't seem to want to teach anything while the other is too overwhelmed with family matter and everything being passed on to him to complete. And that's that, I'm stuck with these two until one of them, or both retires.


Local 3 would pull me out of work for one week so I could attend trade classes that would actually reinforce what I've learned while also giving me the technical aspect of it. I remember my first day where I was introduced to the modern tools used by the A division, was taught how to bend conduit, introduced to the NEC code and how to navigate through the book and interpret its guidelines, and how perform basic electrician tasks that would be expected from a first year such as stripping a wire and properly terminating it. 



The fed apprenticeship I'm currently in doesn't have this as it is too young and doesn't have a large amount of electrical apprentices, all trades pipefitting/rigging/electricians/ect... attend the same school program at the same time, and in term of knowledge IBEW beats it by light years.


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## 3rd Rail

~Edit.
My experience might be different as different locals and sites have different resources.


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## Wirenuting

3rd Rail said:


> Not even close, barely if not 0 rotations to learn from different people.
> When I was in Local 3 there were more than a 100 journeyman to work with and learn from, most had a different unique and efficient method/technique to get a task done.
> 
> 
> The feds' work will depend on what their mission is related to, such as providing support to the air-force so they can complete their day to day activity. And if that's the case, it can be specifically related to their aircraft or other equipment, and most of the time what and who you'll be learning from is related to a current military MOS, or AFSC.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that I'm into the Federal apprenticeship, there are only 2 journeyman to learn from, one doesn't seem to want to teach anything while the other is too overwhelmed with family matter and everything being passed on to him to complete. And that's that, I'm stuck with these two until one of them, or both retires.
> 
> 
> Local 3 would pull me out of work for one week so I could attend trade classes that would actually reinforce what I've learned while also giving me the technical aspect of it. I remember my first day where I was introduced to the modern tools used by the A division, was taught how to bend conduit, introduced to the NEC code and how to navigate through the book and interpret its guidelines, and how perform basic electrician tasks that would be expected from a first year such as stripping a wire and properly terminating it.
> 
> 
> 
> The fed apprenticeship I'm currently in doesn't have this as it is too young and doesn't have a large amount of electrical apprentices, all trades pipefitting/rigging/electricians/ect... attend the same school program at the same time, and in term of knowledge IBEW beats it by light years.



It all depends on were you were hired into and who they have you riding with. 
Ya there are slugs waiting for retirement. But there are others who charge right along until the day they walk out the door. 
Sounds like your site supports the “Chair Force.”


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## Cam3848

@Wirenuting It's been a while but I have gone through the testing process and have had two interviews for NAVFAC SW. Assuming I get two job offers, I would be choosing between High Voltage Electrician and Electrician. In terms of NAVFAC, what would you say are the main differences between the two and what are the advantages/disadvantages of both routes?


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## Bird dog

Simon19 said:


> yes it is


Please fill out your profile.


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## Bird dog

Simon19 said:


> yes i want to know this please help me


 You should've received an email on how to do this. @Cricket


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## Cam3848

Simon19 said:


> I like your post man popcorn munching observer


Lol I just got both positions and have to make a choice by tomorrow morning. Hope he chimes in today!


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## Bird dog

Cam3848 said:


> Lol I just got both positions and have to make a choice by tomorrow morning. Hope he chimes in today!


 By High voltage, do you mean like a power company lineman?


If this is it, then you're training to be an overhead lineman or like I said power company lineman. I would take the "Electrician" position IMO.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwi5l_7Hi_jhAhUHEawKHb9zD84QFjAAegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.navfac.navy.mil%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fnavfac%2FNAVFAC%2520Atlantic%2FNAVFAC%2520Southwest%2FPDFs%2FCareers%2FSW_Careers_High_Voltage_Electrician.pdf&usg=AOvVaw23deZqkBaJeKIr2Yzi3c8g


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## Cam3848

Bird dog said:


> By High voltage, do you mean like a power company lineman?
> 
> 
> If this is it, then you're training to be an overhead lineman or like I said power company lineman. I would take the "Electrician" position IMO.


 
Why would you take the Electrician position over lineman?


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## Bird dog

Cam3848 said:


> Why would you take the Electrician position over lineman?


It's really tough work & looking down the road fewer opportunities. But, being in my 50s, I know that by your 40s you want a less physically demanding job. This is an apprenticeship & you may not always work for the gov't, so, you need to have as many options as possible. Some would say "you don't want to be a one trick pony".


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## osocarpintero

I'm planning to apply for an apprenticeship with NAVFAC this fall, so I'm following this thread closely. I'd be interested to hear what the work/school schedule is like as well as the starting wage if you'd be willing to share. 
Congrats on getting the job offers, by the way - sounds like a good career to transition to


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## Cam3848

osocarpintero said:


> I'm planning to apply for an apprenticeship with NAVFAC this fall, so I'm following this thread closely. I'd be interested to hear what the work/school schedule is like as well as the starting wage if you'd be willing to share.
> Congrats on getting the job offers, by the way - sounds like a good career to transition to


As I move through the process (its a long one by the way), I'll keep posting updates here. I chose high voltage by the way.


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## Gasmonkey

Cam3848, if you could tell me how you were notified about the job offer. Was it via email, phone call, or snail mail? You see, I too applied for, tested, and interviewed for the NAVFAC SW Apprenticeship this go around and I'm waiting to hear something. I'm obviously hoping to get a position and will be disappointed if I don't. It's going to tick me off a little though if the government leaves those of us who didn't get in hanging with no word at all. They can at least send a "sorry Charlie" email to the rejects since we applied, took and passed the test, and went through their interview process.


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## Cam3848

Gasmonkey said:


> Cam3848, if you could tell me how you were notified about the job offer. Was it via email, phone call, or snail mail? You see, I too applied for, tested, and interviewed for the NAVFAC SW Apprenticeship this go around and I'm waiting to hear something. I'm obviously hoping to get a position and will be disappointed if I don't. It's going to tick me off a little though if the government leaves those of us who didn't get in hanging with no word at all. They can at least send a "sorry Charlie" email to the rejects since we applied, took and passed the test, and went through their interview process.


Gasmonkey, I was notified about the job offer via phone call exactly two weeks after my last interview. Every interview I had, the panel said it would take two weeks for notifications. When was your last interview?


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## Gasmonkey

Well I suppose I need to be patient. My interview isn't 2 weeks old yet. I've only had the 1 interview (for multiple positions) and I was led to believe there would only be that 1 interview. There are multiple facilities with multiple apprenticeship spots so naturally they were holding their respective interviews on different days. Hopefully I'll hear something positive (or a "thanks but no thanks") when my two week mark rolls up.


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## Cam3848

Quick update: After I was given a job offer over the phone (4/30/2019), NAVFAC said they sent my paperwork to "USA Staffing" I think. USA Staffing will go through the paperwork and then send a Tentative Job Offer (TJO). After receiving the TJO, I will go in for the medical, physical, and background check. I am still waiting for the TJO. Apparently that is a long process as well.


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## Bird dog

Cam3848 said:


> Quick update: After I was given a job offer over the phone (4/30/2019), NAVFAC said they sent my paperwork to "USA Staffing" I think. USA Staffing will go through the paperwork and then send a Tentative Job Offer (TJO). After receiving the TJO, I will go in for the medical, physical, and background check. I am still waiting for the TJO. Apparently that is a long process as well.


 Hang in there. It'll be worth it. Just be ready to jump through hoops when needed. Keep legible copies of all your paperwork.


Btw make sure the the copies of your DD214 have the reenlistment code at the bottom.


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## Gasmonkey

Keep us up to date. I'm in the same boat now. Waiting on the TJO. The wait is a kind of torture. I'm afraid of feeling excited about the opportunity until I have an actual EOD. Everyday I look in the mail hoping to see that TJO and so far nothing. I know it's the government and they take their time about most everything. It's a process I know but just want that next step, the TJO in writing so I can do the next stuff.


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## Wirenuting

Cam3848 said:


> @Wirenuting It's been a while but I have gone through the testing process and have had two interviews for NAVFAC SW. Assuming I get two job offers, I would be choosing between High Voltage Electrician and Electrician. In terms of NAVFAC, what would you say are the main differences between the two and what are the advantages/disadvantages of both routes?



Sorry I didn’t reply sooner, been busy at work. 



The difference for us with High voltage and low voltage electricians is the work. 
Depending on were you will be working the job may be runway lighting and distribution for the linemen or Normal electrician work.
Our high voltage guys don’t touch anything below 600 volts. 

Were in at the few linemen we have left so mostly street lighting and transformer maintenance... Almost all our lines are below grade so bucket work is minimal. 

Our low voltage electricians do any and everything @ less then 600 volts. 
Rarely do we do bigger new builds. But we will do complete hut and building remodels. It all depends on our current workload and if we have the available workers. We are so short handed that we have to contract a lot out. 

If you had applied here, you would be working today. 
Q: What color is the green ground screw?
A: yellow?

Reply,,,, Close enough,,, welcome aboard.


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## Wirenuting

Gasmonkey said:


> Well I suppose I need to be patient. My interview isn't 2 weeks old yet. I've only had the 1 interview (for multiple positions) and I was led to believe there would only be that 1 interview. There are multiple facilities with multiple apprenticeship spots so naturally they were holding their respective interviews on different days. Hopefully I'll hear something positive (or a "thanks but no thanks") when my two week mark rolls up.


Sit tight and hold fast. 
Remember we are the government and we are slow. 

If you’ve had the interview that great. Now the waiting game can seem like it takes forever. 

Pay is based on location and for the apprenticeship, what pay level your brought in at. The pay scales can be found at OPM.gov


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## Gasmonkey

Wirenuting said:


> Sit tight and hold fast.
> Remember we are the government and we are slow.
> 
> If you’ve had the interview that great. Now the waiting game can seem like it takes forever.
> 
> Pay is based on location and for the apprenticeship, what pay level your brought in at. The pay scales can be found at OPM.gov


Thanks for the advise. I know it's a waiting game and patience is paramount. I just don't want anything to muck this up. 

Ceti Alpha V ? Is that before or after Ceti Alpha VI exploded and shifted Ceti Alpha V's orbit? I here Ceti Alpha V became a real craphole after that and only Botany Bay types would love there.


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## Gasmonkey

This place needs an exit tool. LOL


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## Gasmonkey

Gasmonkey said:


> This place needs an exit tool. LOL


Edit tool :vs_mad:


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## Wirenuting

Gasmonkey said:


> Thanks for the advise. I know it's a waiting game and patience is paramount. I just don't want anything to muck this up.
> 
> Ceti Alpha V ? Is that before or after Ceti Alpha VI exploded and shifted Ceti Alpha V's orbit? I here Ceti Alpha V became a real craphole after that and only Botany Bay types would love there.


Your correct, it’s afterwards... 
Only Botany Bay types and electricians love it there.


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## Cam3848

Update: I received My Tentative Job Offer (TJO) today. There is a list of things that I will be working on tonight. Does anyone have any insight onto how long it takes to start after receiving the TJO?


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## Gasmonkey

Cam3848 said:


> Update: I received My Tentative Job Offer (TJO) today. There is a list of things that I will be working on tonight. Does anyone have any insight onto how long it takes to start after receiving the TJO?


Congratulations. Did it come in the form of an email or official letter? Since they're sending them out now hopefully I will get mine real soon.


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## Cam3848

Gasmonkey said:


> Congratulations. Did it come in the form of an email or official letter? Since they're sending them out now hopefully I will get mine real soon.



Thank you! It came in the form of an email.


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## Wirenuting

Cam3848 said:


> Update: I received My Tentative Job Offer (TJO) today. There is a list of things that I will be working on tonight. Does anyone have any insight onto how long it takes to start after receiving the TJO?


The time it takes after the TJO is based on the requirements in that list your working on. If you need a security clearance before reporting then it can be quick or slow before you hear anything. 
If it’s only a physical you need, then that will be based on how quickly they can get you in. Remember, be honest in filling out any paperwork, it makes it go smoother. 

You’ll begin to understand the delays once your in the door. 
We may be a big organization, but we are god awful slow.


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## Gasmonkey

Cam3848 said:


> Thank you! It came in the form of an email.


Interesting. Well I was informed I was selected a couple of weeks back and to await the TJO for further instructions. One might think HR could send out all the TJO's to selectees at the same time thus receiving them would be simultaneous. Hopefully I'll get my TJO via email, snail mail, phone, or carrier pigeon very soon.


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## Wirenuting

Gasmonkey said:


> Interesting. Well I was informed I was selected a couple of weeks back and to await the TJO for further instructions. One might think HR could send out all the TJO's to selectees at the same time thus receiving them would be simultaneous. Hopefully I'll get my TJO via email, snail mail, phone, or carrier pigeon very soon.


Please understand that HR is as slow as cold roofing tar.
But on the flip side, they are light speed faster then the material ordering dept.

If you’ve been offered the position, please keep the faith. 
It takes so long to bring people onboard and todays way is faster then it had been in the past. 

Many times people give up and move on to something different and miss out getting in. Meanwhile we, on the inside, think we are getting a new guy Monday morning just to have him no show. Just this past Tuesday morning, 4 were due to walk they the door and only 2 showed up. Another showed up yesterday and the 4th is off the books already. We were happy with what we got as we are that short handed.

Remember we are a LARGE organization.


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## Gasmonkey

Wirenuting said:


> Please understand that HR is as slow as cold roofing tar.
> But on the flip side, they are light speed faster then the material ordering dept.
> 
> If you’ve been offered the position, please keep the faith.
> It takes so long to bring people onboard and todays way is faster then it had been in the past.
> 
> Many times people give up and move on to something different and miss out getting in. Meanwhile we, on the inside, think we are getting a new guy Monday morning just to have him no show. Just this past Tuesday morning, 4 were due to walk they the door and only 2 showed up. Another showed up yesterday and the 4th is off the books already. We were happy with what we got as we are that short handed.
> 
> Remember we are a LARGE organization.


I hear ya. It just that I've had some weird stuff happen in the past. I've had more then one job offer be reneged because of snafus or incompetence on the part of others. I'm naturally scared that something totally out of my hands will screw this up. I know the government is super slow and I shouldn't be worried and impatient. The thing is I'm not really expecting on-boarding to be lightening fast. I'm not as impatient as I am paranoid. I just don't need a repeat of things like "we misplaced your paperwork" or "due to a clerical error we offered the job to the wrong candidate" that's screws me out of this. 

Who knows, maybe I'll get my Wonka Golden Ticket by the end of the day. 

Thanks for the insight and encouragement. It actually does quash the anxiety to get a perspective from someone who knows the process.


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## Wirenuting

Gasmonkey said:


> I hear ya. It just that I've had some weird stuff happen in the past. I've had more then one job offer be reneged because of snafus or incompetence on the part of others. I'm naturally scared that something totally out of my hands will screw this up. I know the government is super slow and I shouldn't be worried and impatient. The thing is I'm not really expecting on-boarding to be lightening fast. I'm not as impatient as I am paranoid. I just don't need a repeat of things like "we misplaced your paperwork" or "due to a clerical error we offered the job to the wrong candidate" that's screws me out of this.
> 
> Who knows, maybe I'll get my Wonka Golden Ticket by the end of the day.
> 
> Thanks for the insight and encouragement. It actually does quash the anxiety to get a perspective from someone who knows the process.



The Wonka golden ticket is presented to you after your probation period. Then it takes 8 times as long to can you out the door.. LoL

I’ve seen some of the new guys arrive pretty quickly and others have taken months. I’m sure there is a reason but who knows what it is. When I hired in 30+ years ago I received the offer via phone on a Friday and started working the following Tuesday. The only reason I didn’t start on Monday was it was a holiday. 

The pay isn’t the greatest, BUT the LONG term benefits are well worth it. 
Once your onboard just follow your coworkers lead and do as your asked. 
We do things differently then on the outside and it’s a learning curve. 

Welcome aboard.


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## Wirenuting

Cam3848 said:


> Thank you! It came in the form of an email.


Welcome aboard to you also Cam3848. 
You’ll enjoy your years at NavFac 

It’s been so hard to hire people that we are now starting to double stuff positions. My boss asked me to let him know 5 years prior to retirement so they can hire my replacement. They way that works is, he would ride with me and learn the insider stuff I’ve been doing for so long. It’s the corporate knowledge of the system and facility that is lost when us old folks just walk out the door. 


Coffee black, 1 raspberry jelly donut with powered sugar, fresh not store bought. lain:


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## Cam3848

Wirenuting said:


> Welcome aboard to you also Cam3848.
> You’ll enjoy your years at NavFac
> 
> It’s been so hard to hire people that we are now starting to double stuff positions. My boss asked me to let him know 5 years prior to retirement so they can hire my replacement. They way that works is, he would ride with me and learn the insider stuff I’ve been doing for so long. It’s the corporate knowledge of the system and facility that is lost when us old folks just walk out the door.
> 
> 
> Coffee black, 1 raspberry jelly donut with powered sugar, fresh not store bought. lain:


Thank you Wirenuting!


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## osocarpintero

Wirenuting, 
As an experienced Navfac guy, could you explain some of those long term benefits you've mentioned that make it worth the lower pay? 
I understand working for the government has unparalleled job security which especially appeals to tradesmen, but I'm not seeing how the pay is competitive enough at the journeyman level. I've been researching local trade union apprenticeships and comparing what they have to offer with Navfac's program.
Unless I'm completely reading the government wage schedules wrong, there's a substantial difference between the two with Navfac paying journeymen (that's WG10 or 11, right?) close to HALF of what the union pays. I would assume the health insurance rates and retirement options are better with government than union, but enough to make up for that big of a pay gap? 

Thanks in advance for imparting wisdom, this is a career move I've been anticipating for a while and I really want to go with NAVFAC, but I need to be able to justify that pay gap before putting all my eggs in one basket


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## 3rd Rail

Wirenuting said:


> Welcome aboard to you also Cam3848.
> You’ll enjoy your years at NavFac
> 
> It’s been so hard to hire people that we are now starting to double stuff positions. My boss asked me to let him know 5 years prior to retirement so they can hire my replacement. They way that works is, he would ride with me and learn the insider stuff I’ve been doing for so long. It’s the corporate knowledge of the system and facility that is lost when us old folks just walk out the door.



Weird, I'm with NavSea and when I was hired I was placed on a 7 man team, after a month I learned 71% of the team was looking for, and wanted a new job. It's just as you've said, the pay isn't great and doing overtime is a must to survive, but the benefits are worth it compared to other places. However, if the work culture isn't great then retaining the teams and maintaining morals will be hard.
Most of the other apprentices in the program are already bragging about how they're using this apprenticeship to step into the government and planning not to complete it after 2 years.
The school and management also doesn’t seem to care about retaining their workforce as there’s always someone from other bases who are willing to transfer over or step into the apprenticeship to rinse and repeat the 2 years opportunist probation cycle ticket into the government.
But hey, if the feds have money to waste on an apprenticeship and workforce they have no intention into retaining then so be it, it is what it is. Having a constant source of money that comes from the tax payers does seem to promote wastefulness.


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## Cam3848

3rd Rail said:


> Weird, I'm with NavSea and when I was hired I was placed on a 7 man team, after a month I learned 71% of the team was looking for, and wanted a new job. It's just as you've said, the pay isn't great and doing overtime is a must to survive, but the benefits are worth it compared to other places. However, if the work culture isn't great then retaining the teams and maintaining morals will be hard.
> Most of the other apprentices in the program are already bragging about how they're using this apprenticeship to step into the government and planning not to complete it after 2 years.
> The school and management also doesn’t seem to care about retaining their workforce as there’s always someone from other bases who are willing to transfer over or step into the apprenticeship to rinse and repeat the 2 years opportunist probation cycle ticket into the government.
> But hey, if the feds have money to waste on an apprenticeship and workforce they have no intention into retaining then so be it, it is what it is. Having a constant source of money that comes from the tax payers does seem to promote wastefulness.


What is it that the apprentices plan to do after two years in the apprenticeship? Why not just finish it? 
Also, if you could explain why the benefits are worth it that would be great!


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## Wirenuting

3rd Rail said:


> Weird, I'm with NavSea and when I was hired I was placed on a 7 man team, after a month I learned 71% of the team was looking for, and wanted a new job. It's just as you've said, the pay isn't great and doing overtime is a must to survive, but the benefits are worth it compared to other places. However, if the work culture isn't great then retaining the teams and maintaining morals will be hard.
> Most of the other apprentices in the program are already bragging about how they're using this apprenticeship to step into the government and planning not to complete it after 2 years.
> The school and management also doesn’t seem to care about retaining their workforce as there’s always someone from other bases who are willing to transfer over or step into the apprenticeship to rinse and repeat the 2 years opportunist probation cycle ticket into the government.
> But hey, if the feds have money to waste on an apprenticeship and workforce they have no intention into retaining then so be it, it is what it is. Having a constant source of money that comes from the tax payers does seem to promote wastefulness.


Sadly some use it as a step to get in. Others use it to learn a trade. 
Some locations pay outside contractors to give the classroom time and other locations have an apprentice program just to get people in. 
We hired 3 and their start date was last Monday, only one showed up and the 3rd quit on Wednesday. 
The office workers also have a similar program just to get folks in to specific jobs. It’s hard to compete with what the outside pays. 
High turnover in the fed system is terrible for the long term running of things. It makes it harder to serve the public and give them what they deserve.


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## Cam3848

Wirenuting said:


> Sadly some use it as a step to get in. Others use it to learn a trade.
> Some locations pay outside contractors to give the classroom time and other locations have an apprentice program just to get people in.
> We hired 3 and their start date was last Monday, only one showed up and the 3rd quit on Wednesday.
> The office workers also have a similar program just to get folks in to specific jobs. It’s hard to compete with what the outside pays.
> High turnover in the fed system is terrible for the long term running of things. It makes it harder to serve the public and give them what they deserve.


Wirenuttin, what are the long term benefits of being part of NAVFAC despite the low pay?


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## Wirenuting

Cam3848 said:


> Wirenuttin, what are the long term benefits of being part of NAVFAC despite the low pay?


Pay is based on location, it does vary.

Medical insurance, you pick the plan, some are better then others,
Dental, if you want it.
The ability to earn 8 hours paid vacation every 2 weeks after 15 years, you can carry over 240 hours each calendar year.
4 paid hours sick leave earned every two weeks, you can save up 2000 hours in 20 years. 
10 paid federal holidays each year.
A defined pension plan, we call it TSP (a 401)
Federal retirement 
Social security

If were you work shuts down, they truly try and place you someplace else in the system.. The Feds have a lot of money invested in you and your knowlage is priceless. They don't want to loose people. 

40 hours per week, no lay offs.. It's cheaper to have you sweeping floors then to lay everyone off.. Anyone can paint if they need to. 

The long term benefits are good, at OPM.gov the complete list can be found. 


On the flip side, 
Your pay raises are based on what congress and the president authorizes. Some years it's zero.
If the government shuts down, you might have to still report and do your normal job.. You hope to get paid later, but don't bet on it.. Sucks but that's life.


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## 3rd Rail

Cam3848 said:


> What is it that the apprentices plan to do after two years in the apprenticeship? Why not just finish it?
> Also, if you could explain why the benefits are worth it that would be great!


Possibly Transfer over to different jobs within the feds or jump to different agencies. 
Some will leave because of better opportunities and the information they’re obtaining from their word to mouth network as the pay paid by the feds vary by location and isn’t competitive enough to retain all of the smart people it is trying to employ. 

You can google OPM and benefits, I don't enough post counts to post the link.
Once you're hired you should get a list of your benefits through OPM.

Be wary though, the quality of the apprenticeship provided by your shop might not be on par with the private sector or locals. 
From what I'm experiencing, you're expected to be on point and already have some knowledge related to an industrial environment. My jobsite is letting apprentices run the show without supervision, the errors attached with this is related to safety. I’ve seen them assign an apprentice who has been in for more than 2 years to a commercial vehicle without any supervision, the apprentice didn’t have any special license to operate it but is used of driving the vehicle. When I saw him about to drive off with an unsecure load on the flatbed of the vehicle I had to immediately stop him and point out the safety issue, he didn’t even know where to find the straps which are usually located near the seats, or how to use a rachet strap and hook it up to the flatbed. He was about to drive off with an unsecure load with no barrier or strap to prevent the load from falling off. It wasn’t really his fault given he couldn’t identify the errors as for the past 2 years he wasn’t taught by anyone on how to properly secure a load.
I’m really and truly grateful to have come across a lot foremen and journeymen who were willing to teach me about safety within a construction site. 
My current managers are planning on hiring more apprentices and dumping 8 apprentices to 2~3 journeymen, and that’s a red flag to the quality of my training.


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## Sushixxx

Cam3848 said:


> I'm currently Active Duty Air Force and I separate this October (did not work an electrical job). I'm looking to become an electrician as a civilian. Recently, I applied for a NAVFAC SW apprenticeship program and was selected to take a civil service exam. NAVFAC sounds like a great option because it is federal Govt work that is secure and I get to learn the trade! I'd there anyone out there that works for NAVFAC or can say a few words about being a tradesmen for them? It would be great to talk to somebody about NAVFAC life!


 I know its been a while but did you end up working for them?


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## Wirenuting

Sushixxx said:


> I know its been a while but did you end up working for them?


Why, do you want to work for them also?


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## Sushixxx

I already work for them, just wanted to share my experience with this guy.


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