# Should the IBEW have a Uniform?



## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

People recognize UPS by it's brown. I think the IBEW should try and stand out as well. Unions get such a bad name in the media sometimes. Every christmas the news reports that some delivery company may strike and your presents will not arrive on time. People need to know that the IBEW don't strike and all unions are not the same.

I can't see the contracters caring too much because most don't supply shirts to anyone besides foremans. I personally would like to see more electricians wearing shirts with a collar and slacks where conditions permit.

I guess I should say I don't want it to be a requirement but I would like us to have some team colors.


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

Most IBEW guys can be spotted a mile away. Beer gut, tats, union rag tee shirt, no-dog on the bill of a stickered up hard hat, mullet. How much more uniform can they get? :laughing:


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

slacks????? 
Yeah right, my double front carharts have a tough time with day to day construction.
If a "uniform" was adopted, the contractors would have to pay for it and the cleaning, no way in hell tha'ts gonna happen. when I worked open shop we had a uniform for the first few months I worked there. None of the pants fit and half of the so called blue pants were purple. They soon gave that up cause the cleaning was to much and just had us wear the button up shirts.

Oh and by the way, I do have a uniform, its called a hardhat, safety glasses, safety vest and safety gloves. That's enough for me


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## unionwirewoman (Sep 7, 2008)

Minuteman said:


> Most IBEW guys can be spotted a mile away. Beer gut, tats, union rag tee shirt, no-dog on the bill of a stickered up hard hat, mullet. How much more uniform can they get? :laughing:


 
I have no beer gut , no mullet , and I refuse to wear any of my union bug shirts to work with tears in them . I dress as neatly as I can for construction as well as all of my brothers and sisters do . I guess it's just the state I live in.....even though the travelers that come here are dressed the same ......yes some do have beer guts...but after 30 yrs in the trade and growing older...who doesn't ? I will never wear slacks or collared shirts to work .....double knee carharts are my friend especially when you put foam in the pockets especially if you work 2 months wiring up transformers on metal grating . I do have tats.....I earned them ..they are hidden from view . Who cares about that . I care about if a journeyman knows enough to do his job to teach me something I don't know , not me teaching him ( most are organized hands so....) And no...I don't have pink tools or work clothes .


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well if i dont have jeans on or a old t shirt or denum shirt ill find another place to work !

I dont like a dress code or someone telling me how to look or dress sorry but thats my thinking on this subject .

jeans are it !! and were not talking the ones that hang down past your underware or the ones that are 5 times bigger than you need !! best to yas


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> Most IBEW guys can be spotted a mile away. Beer gut, tats, union rag tee shirt, no-dog on the bill of a stickered up hard hat, mullet. How much more uniform can they get? :laughing:


 
Nice way to sterotype, I have no beer gut, no ragy tee shirts, no mullet, and I take pride in the way I look on the job. Your son must take after his mothers side of the family.


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## unionwirewoman (Sep 7, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> Nice way to sterotype, I have no beer gut, no ragy tee shirts, no mullet, and I take pride in the way I look on the job. Your son must take after his mothers side of the family.


 
:laughing::thumbup::laughing: !!


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> Nice way to sterotype, I have no beer gut, no ragy tee shirts, no mullet, and I take pride in the way I look on the job. Your son must take after his mothers side of the family.


As a matter of fact, you're right.

Her brother died as a Marine, and her father was a Marine in Viet Nam and Korea.

On the other hand, I was in the Air Force, but my Army dad fought in Korea, and two of my uncles were in the Army during D-day.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

There are pros and cons to uniforms.

I like wearing whatever, but I can understand from the company's perspective, that it's unprofessional.

I loose dress code requiring a clean polo tucked into whatever pants makes more sense to me. I knew a guy that came to work dressed like that and I have to say, despite is ineptitude, it made him look more professional.

All I wear are grey and tan BDU's and a white, grey, or black t-shirt. Generally tucked in unless it's sweltering outside.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> Nice way to sterotype, .....


I have one word in response.........."rat".


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

We have a minor dress code; Jeans, ****ies, or BDU's. The company provides T-shirts and collared shirts. T-shirts for construction, collared for service. At the start of the day I like to be "inspection ready". I have no problem with this because it keeps the kids from wearing graphic t-shirts that might not be appropriate.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I have one word in response.........."rat".


 
One word you won't find in any of my posts.


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## Melissa809 (Aug 28, 2008)

Hey...how about mini skirts and tank tops....for the girls....AND guys!!!!.....haha

Actually....years ago, Local 3 guys wore khaki pants and collared shirts...a ew of the old timers still wear this "uniform".

I'm working street lighting right now..so a pair of overalls...hard hat and safety vest is it.....oh yeah, and a shirt...haha


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## KLG1990 (Mar 11, 2009)

well before i start my apprenticeship give me sizes. i work at cintas (the uniform people). give me some commission. lol. before i leave that hell hole.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

KLG1990 said:


> well before i start my apprenticeship give me sizes. i work at cintas (the uniform people). give me some commission. lol. before i leave that hell hole.


I need shirts and pants roughly the color of a dirty uniform at the end of a day. I'm not sure what color you'd call that. Somewhere between "dust" and "soil". :thumbsup: BTW, Cintas is who I use.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

In my area we have a real mixed bag... a few are tattered, but most fairly clean cut for construction work. Some collared shirts, some t shirts, some local t shirts, some that won't wear local shirt due to our number. A few that regularly run work dress in a manner that would not be out of place in an office.

I think the uniforn thing would start a riot in the meeting though. Brothers or not,there is certainly plenty of independant spirit.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Melissa809 said:


> Hey...how about mini skirts and tank tops....for the girls....AND guys!!!!.....haha


That's.........really weird.


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## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

As I said in my first post. I'm not for uniforms and I said slacks ---which I should have said dockers or ****ies type pants. And even then only where it makes sense. If you are out in the elements or in a trench or something, of course not. I've worked a lot in office buildings and sometimes I get guys who just toss on anything. I think in view of the public, we need to look presentable. So many times we make twice as much as those office folks and they look at us like we're trash. Soooo Anyhow, scratch off "uniform". Now, do you think we should have like a color or something that ties us all together? If the IBew had official colors and shirts--polo's and T's with the hand and bolts logos. would you be inclined to wear them or are you more into your own local or the contractor you work for?


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

I kinda responded off of the whole thread, but after reading your last, I agree in spirit. I think the color thing could have some value, but hard to get everyone on board. I certainly agree that more ought to dress as the occasion fits. There are certainly some that show up to ragged for some of the nicer places we get to work. And you are absolutely right about the office folks!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I remember years ago, 
Electrician wore blue shirts
Pipe fitters or tin knockers wore shirts with stripes
Blockies and finishers wore white
Plumbers had a color too but I don't remember


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

jrannis said:


> I remember years ago,
> Electrician wore blue shirts
> Pipe fitters or tin knockers wore shirts with stripes
> Blockies and finishers wore white
> Plumbers had a color too but I don't remember


 
Perhaps **** brown?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> As a matter of fact, you're right.
> 
> Her brother died as a Marine, and her father was a Marine in Viet Nam and Korea.
> 
> On the other hand, I was in the Air Force, but my Army dad fought in Korea, and two of my uncles were in the Army during D-day.


 
Air force that explains alot, don't drop your coffee cup. Say Semper Fi to your father in law and son.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Melissa809 said:


> Hey...how about mini skirts and tank tops....for the girls....AND guys!!!!.....haha
> 
> Actually....years ago, Local 3 guys wore khaki pants and collared shirts...a ew of the old timers still wear this "uniform".
> 
> I'm working street lighting right now..so a pair of overalls...hard hat and safety vest is it.....oh yeah, and a shirt...haha


 
Yes, some of the older guys still wear the khakis and golf shirts for sure. As for the skirt, I wish I had pics of Random and the guys that wore kilts last summer on a job that was over 100F and had a nice early finish bonus.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Thought about this one some more... our local has red shirt friday to show support for the troops. Certainly not everyone participates, but really quite a few. So you never know what might catch on!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

s.kelly said:


> Thought about this one some more... our local has red shirt friday to show support for the troops. Certainly not everyone participates, but really quite a few. So you never know what might catch on!


Red Shirt Friday. They bleed red so we wear red.

Here's mine:


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I would say If you had to be furnished with companay dictated uniforms, they would have to meet the N.F.P.A.70E standards.


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

....................................


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

nick said:


> Well if i dont have jeans on or a old t shirt or denum shirt ill find another place to work !
> 
> I dont like a dress code or someone telling me how to look or dress sorry but thats my thinking on this subject .
> 
> jeans are it !! and were not talking the ones that hang down past your underware or the ones that are 5 times bigger than you need !! best to yas


 I second that nick,:thumbsup: Well said.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I never understood the sentiment of supporting the troops without supporting the war.

I once had a teacher that tried to tell me that the troops in Iraq were protecting my freedom to choose what clothes I wore.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I never understood the sentiment of supporting the troops without supporting the war.........


Maybe because the troops would rather not be there to begin with. But they are, whether I support the war itself or not. 

War is about politics. Troops are human beings.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I think maybe the IBEW should join upwith the EDU, suit up and get to work


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Air force that explains alot, don't drop your coffee cup. Say Semper Fi to your father in law and son.


Gee, I thought we all served under the same flag.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I never understood the sentiment of supporting the troops without supporting the war.
> 
> I once had a teacher that tried to tell me that the troops in Iraq were protecting my freedom to choose what clothes I wore.


The troops in Iraq aren't protecting anything other than American oil interests. 

The USA is in no danger of an Iraqi invasion...


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

wildleg said:


> I think maybe the IBEW should join upwith the EDU, suit up and get to work


I have every intention of standing with them in complete SOLIDarity.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> Gee, I thought we all served under the same flag.


 
We do, it's just that some of us do it in a more manly way and take the bull by the horns and others just lean on the fence and drink coffee and watch. Like you never heard of other branches referring to it as the "air farce".


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> We do, it's just that some of us do it in a more manly way and take the bull by the horns and others just lean on the fence and drink coffee and watch. Like you never heard of other branches referring to it as the "air farce".


The Air Corps (predecessor to the Air Force) dropped 2 bombs that ended WWII. How many wars has the Marine Corps won in 2 single missions?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah, what's that about the Marines being Dept. of the Navy... the Men's Dept that is.

I always took offense to that being a squid myself.


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Yeah, what's that about the Marines being Dept. of the Navy... the Men's Dept that is.
> 
> I always took offense to that being a squid myself.


Miller, I made some snide remarks early in this thread that overgeneralized construction IBEW Electrician's appearances (based upon personal observations). A few took exception to my remarks and chose to insult my own military service and question all Airman's manhood.

If the IBEW could agree to clothe their service Electricians in the same duds, more power to 'em. Good luck with construction workers.

FWIW, I'm quite comfortable with my military record and my reasoning as to why I chose the branch that I did. I am also quite comfortable with the branch my son has chosen and his reasoning. Neither of which having been based upon manliness.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> The Air Corps (predecessor to the Air Force) dropped 2 bombs that ended WWII. How many wars has the Marine Corps won in 2 single missions?


 
Oh don't even compare dropping two bombs from several thousand feet to actually being shot at on the ground and being in combat. Nothing like being air riding taxi driver. Nowadays those shots would be fired by two airmen buried in a silo someplace, not very impressive. The real heros in that bombing run were the sailors that died at sea after delivering the bombs and not being able to call for help after being torpedoed. There is no comparisson. And it isn't like the AAC had anything to do with inventing, designing, building, or targeting those bombs.
I can conversationalize with any Spec Ops alum, airborne troop, sailor, or fighter pilot but have little use for war stories from a post WWII bomber pilot or crew member that got up out of a bed in the am had coffee, hit the cockpit and was back in time for a shower before evening chow.


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> Oh don't even compare dropping two bombs from several thousand feet to actually being shot at on the ground and being in combat. Nothing like being air riding taxi driver. Nowadays those shots would be fired by two airmen buried in a silo someplace, not very impressive. The real heros in that bombing run were the sailors that died at sea after delivering the bombs and not being able to call for help after being torpedoed. There is no comparisson. And it isn't like the AAC had anything to do with inventing, designing, building, or targeting those bombs.
> I can conversationalize with any Spec Ops alum, airborne troop, sailor, or fighter pilot but have little use for war stories from a post WWII bomber pilot or crew member that got up out of a bed in the am had coffee, hit the cockpit and was back in time for a shower before evening chow.


I wouldn't know about a flight crew. My MOS was combat comm. What was yours?


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Melissa809 said:


> Hey...how about mini skirts and tank tops....for the girls....AND guys!!!!.....haha
> 
> Actually....years ago, Local 3 guys wore khaki pants and collared shirts...a ew of the old timers still wear this "uniform".
> 
> I'm working street lighting right now..so a pair of overalls...hard hat and safety vest is it.....oh yeah, and a shirt...haha


I'll hold the ladder,melissa809,you go on up.


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## Buddha In Babylon (Mar 23, 2009)

I liked to use uniforms when i was working at a factory building tow trucks but i was crawling around in hydraulic oil all the time and they had a laundry service and such. But the delivery service was late a lot and was generally unreliable. I don't know...
This DOES bring up an interesting discussion with everyone though. Exactly how important is your on the job appearance to you and why? Do you think it matters on where you are working and what you are doing? Do you think it matters even for the lowly deck ape apprentice who goes around hanging lights all day, whether or not he looks "professional"? 
In my opinion, the only people whose appearance on the job is significant, are the foremen, and supers. People who SHOULD look like they have answers. That's just me...

I always wear Duct pants or the like, with a company t-shirt or a local shirt... I got flack the other day from some guy cause i have a jolly roger sticker on my hard-hat. It's just something i've had on all my hardhats through the years, and i never gave it a second thought, but since he said something (somalia incidents reference) i'm thinking of ripping it off...


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

minuteman said:


> i wouldn't know about a flight crew. My mos was combat comm. What was yours?


0321-0231


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> 0321-0231


 Oh, a POG. Intell/reconn. High speed fire watch.


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> Nice way to sterotype, I have no beer gut, no ragy tee shirts, no mullet, and I take pride in the way I look on the job. Your son must take after his mothers side of the family.


:laughing:


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> Most IBEW guys can be spotted a mile away... *union rag tee shirt*, ...


FYI: A *union rag tee shirt* is a shirt bought from http://unionrags.com/


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I'll add my .02 when you apes are done pounding your chests...:whistling2:


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

That may take awhile.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> That may take awhile.


Then it's true... Ya'll got some pretty big chests!


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

wildleg said:


> I think maybe the IBEW should join upwith the EDU, suit up and get to work


 She gets 1/2 half of "Springer Beads".


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Then it's true... Ya'll got some pretty big chests!


She doesn't


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> She doesn't


I agree, looks like an "A", as in ain't gonna attract much attention.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> I agree, looks like an "A", as in ain't gonna attract much attention.


Yea but she's got 4 of 'em!


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Yea but she's got 4 of 'em!


Something ain't right with her.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

If ever the IBEW gets a uniform,

Its going to be Red, White, and Blue,

because we've got way more veterans in the union than those working non-union.

The reason for that is, our apprenticeship helps out with GI Bill, and when they do turn-out, they don't end up working for less!!! With no health benefits too! Add to that a meager retirement if any at all!


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> If ever the IBEW gets a uniform,
> 
> Its going to be Red, White, and Blue,
> 
> ...


Considering IBEW’s current market share, and its long slow decent it would be statistically impossible for this to be true. You really should question the crap they tell you at the hall.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Not sure if a uniform would work so well, but a dress code should be required. I wont go as far as saying all IBEW guys dress like bums, but you gotta admit, many do. And it presents poorly. All that it takes is a few to make everyone else look bad and create stereotypes. 

A dress code for the IBEW would change all that. Nothing fancy, after all we get dirty for a living, but clean long pants without holes. Workshirts, no profanity, sexual,booze or drug references to be displayed. Work boots, no sneakers open shoes. No stickers on hard hats (OSHA violation anyways for CLass E hard hats). Something along those lines would do alot for the IBEWs reputation. 

And, all branches have fought and died for the same flag and the same freedoms. Some just score higher on the enterance exams and dont choose infantry type jobs. (Some do score high and choose infantry anyways, crazy bastards).


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

When they completed Camden Yards, the Baltimore Local had several members/worker pose for a picture in front of the stadium proudly showing off the excellent stadium they had assisted in building. My only issue with the picture was the guys looked like a several homeless, a few biker gang types and a wino. The picture would have been no different if the job had been completed open shop.

My question was couldn't they find a few neater representatives of the IBEW work force or ask them the day before to spruce up a bit.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Usually publicity shots are unexpected. And we all know, oftentimes construction ain't pretty.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

[quote=Zog No stickers on hard hats (OSHA violation anyways for CLass E hard hats). 


Well we dont like your no stickers on hard hats theory !

Most of our crew has a few stickers on our hard hats in good taste some are due to the job rules construction manager makes us put these on for security to enter the gate at the project . 
This is right after the safety orientation from the construction manager all contractors must go thur this process safety & rules of job site and lots of videos for 2 hours first day.
They have a number on the sticker if you dont have it your not coming on the project .
I have the american flag on both sides of my brown fiber metal with stickers from each job kinda take pride in that .
We also have been on three osha inspections over the years and never had a osha violation yet or anyone on any job weve been on . 
Our companys has us put our names on the front with there company logo ,
Plus every sticker thats needed to get us on the project and the american flag both sides if someones got a problem with my hat guess youll be doing the job by yourself because the whole crew will be going with me we take pride in our hats and were not union were non union . I like to know whos the moron who thinks a sticker is a safety problem and explain why ? take care be safe


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

nick said:


> Well we dont like your no stickers on hard hats theory !
> 
> Most of our crew has a few stickers on our hard hats in good taste some are due to the job rules construction manager makes us put these on for security to enter the gate at the project .
> This is right after the safety orientation from the construction manager all contractors must go thur this process safety & rules of job site and lots of videos for 2 hours first day.
> ...


Well I guess I am a moron. You are the smart guy wearing conductive stickers on his electrically rated hard hat, real smart. 

The OSHA ruling on stickers on hard hats varies greatly by state, for those states with a state regulated OSHA programs, some states outright ban them, others advise against them. Federal OSHA has 2 concerns about sticker on class E hard hats. 

First, adhesive stickers should be placed at least 3/4 inch away from the edge of the helmet. This prevents the possibility of the sticker's acting as a conductor between the outside and inside of the shell if it were to wrap around the brim. 

Second, the area of the helmet covered by stickers should be kept to a practical minimum to permit regular inspection of the helmet shell for signs of damage. 

There are also some concerns about adhesives damaging the insulating properties of class E hard hats, thats where the states and federal OSHA can disagree at times. 

And of course, only a genius would put something conductive on thier class E hard hat.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Zog said:


> Well I guess I am a moron. You are the smart guy wearing conductive stickers on his electrically rated hard hat, real smart.
> 
> The OSHA ruling on stickers on hard hats varies greatly by state, for those states with a state regulated OSHA programs, some states outright ban them, others advise against them. Federal OSHA has 2 concerns about sticker on class E hard hats.
> 
> ...


Well so explain to me in detail how a class E hard hat will save your life with out a sticker on it . 

Then explain electrically how a sticker can conduct electrically thur the hard hat ? maybe ill just learn something new dont hold any theory back ? take care


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

nick said:


> Well so explain to me in detail how a class E hard hat will save your life with out a sticker on it .
> 
> Then explain electrically how a sticker can conduct electrically thur the hard hat ? maybe ill just learn something new dont hold any theory back ? take care


A class E hard hat is rated for 20,000V, in case of accidential contact it could save a life. 

The sticker could cover a crack in the hard hat that would be detected otherwise by the user. The crack would greatly decease the insulating properties of the helmet. The other issue with stickers is the tracking across the surface to the brim, thus the 3/4" rule. You claim to be an experienced MV guy so I dont think I need to explain what tracking is to you, or maybe I do.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Zog said:


> A class E hard hat is rated for 20,000V, in case of accidential contact it could save a life.
> 
> The sticker could cover a crack in the hard hat that would be detected otherwise by the user. The crack would greatly decease the insulating properties of the helmet. The other issue with stickers is the tracking across the surface to the brim, thus the 3/4" rule. You claim to be an experienced MV guy so I dont think I need to explain what tracking is to you, or maybe I do.


Well at 20,000 volts if a line drops or your that close to the point of conduction your dead crack or no crack to me 3/4 of a inch is not going to make a difference ! funny how a thin piece of reynolds rap can hold 70,000 volts on a high pot test on a cable end but a thick hard hat only holds 20,000 volts .

Paper sticker makes a better insulator in my book . 

Ya we work commercial &industrial and have done a few plants thur the years dont like class E there to heavy i like fiber like i said we do new work but we dont get within 3 or 4 feet of anything around 20,000 volts at least not without gloves or a stick . 
Tracking and corona around my hard hat i dont think soo not in this world ! Take care Zog we know its safe but what is really safe today


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

nick said:


> Well at 20,000 volts if a line drops or your that close to the point of conduction your dead crack or no crack to me 3/4 of a inch is not going to make a difference ! funny how a thin piece of reynolds rap can hold 70,000 volts on a high pot test on a cable end but a thick hard hat only holds 20,000 volts .
> 
> Paper sticker makes a better insulator in my book .
> 
> ...


 
Nick I am really getting sick of your comments. OSHA requires you wear a class E hard hat, it isnt your choice. Paper sticker a better insulator? Are you serious? You cant really believe that!

The head protection PPE requirements are incidential contact, no one expects to make contact with energized parts, it is usually an accident. 

You waer what ever you want and believe what ever you want, at this point I dont care what you do. You are just hijacking this thread.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Zog said:


> Nick I am really getting sick of your comments. OSHA requires you wear a class E hard hat, it isnt your choice. Paper sticker a better insulator? Are you serious? You cant really believe that!
> 
> The head protection PPE requirements are incidential contact, no one expects to make contact with energized parts, it is usually an accident.
> 
> You waer what ever you want and believe what ever you want, at this point I dont care what you do. You are just hijacking this thread.



Well Zog you sound a little upset how about you tell me how paper will conduct better than plastic or fiber glass and whos going to get that close to high voltage ??? 
You think your way that there is only service work well theres more to this trade than just service we got to install it so you can fix it ,
and we dont work it hot everyday .

We kinda do lots of electrical work and we use ppe when needed .

Were is yur proof on this subject get your osha facts and show me ? 
Just because osha says it i need to know why ? Were not here to high jack anyone if you want to talk electrical lets talk !! How paper can conduct thur a hard hat ?
And if its cracked just look at it thur the inside when you inspect it .

When osha checks the date of manufacture inside a crack can be seen .
Or fill it up with water and connect it up to a megger ever done that !! come on your a testing guy bring that up at the next osha meeting testing hard hats with water & megger . Never have i seen a cracked fiber metal or a class e hard hat ever but ive seen a g or c broken its the material of the hat . Take care geezz were not giving you a hard time we just might learn more by asking questions .


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Nick, your beef is with OSHA's anal retentive regulations, don't blame the messenger.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Nick, your beef is with OSHA's anal retentive regulations, don't blame the messenger.


Well first i dont like the response to my post or the attitude of a know it all . 

I think for myself and make mistakes some times!! 
That hard hat sticker rule thats my comment sick or not ! 

Personally i think the ruling is made by just a few who never have worn a hard hat everyday for many years and i wonder some times how they come up with some of there safety rules .
Yes there is rules and regulations some good some bad . 
But lets demonstrate some respect online we are electricians we are all different and have different ways we think . I dont type good or write good sometimes i get a little bit out of line but ive worn a hard hat since 1969 so dont tell me that a sticker is bad . take care


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

somewhere i got a hardhat from the late '70's. i drilled holes in it for venilation. dont think i could do that now. think i wore it for 2-3 yrs.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

paul d. said:


> somewhere i got a hardhat from the late '70's. i drilled holes in it for venilation. dont think i could do that now. think i wore it for 2-3 yrs.


I saw an ad for... it was either a hard hat accessory or a special hard hat that had a battery powered muffin fan in it.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> I saw an ad for... it was either a hard hat accessory or a special hard hat that had a battery powered muffin fan in it.


 maybe our good friend 480 could find it for us. :whistling2:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Yea but she's got 4 of 'em!


I've seen 3 but never 4.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> If ever the IBEW gets a uniform,
> 
> Its going to be Red, White, and Blue,
> 
> ...


Well put, 75% of our shop are vets.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Well put, 75% of our shop are vets.


 is any of em USAF ????? be honest. :whistling2:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

paul d. said:


> is any of em USAF ????? be honest. :whistling2:


One that I know of but I will leave it right there. Well actually two, the other a retired 0-6 in the office.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

thank you


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

PhatElvis said:


> Considering IBEW’s current market share, and its long slow decent it would be statistically impossible for this to be true. You really should question the crap they tell you at the hall.


Hey phatso, Texas may be in the crapper for marketshare, but here its above 90%. And I was on the other side before, so I know what I'm talking about when I say more vets on the union side.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)




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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> If ever the IBEW gets a uniform,
> 
> Its going to be Red, White, and Blue,
> 
> ...


That's crap. You have no proof that the unions have more vets than non union workers.

So, a vet is discharged and comes home looking for a job. Say that he/she returns to a state where the Union market share is high. Like... Oregon. Okay, is your local taking on very many new apprentices? What is the percent of unemployment in Oregon? Another factor, what is the demographic of military enlistment in "Union" states compared to RTW or non-union states? Texas has the highest number of enlistment.

As I have stated before, the market share of the local that I used too belong to has dropped from 11% when I held a ticket to only 4%. You're saying that the potential new veteran's looking for work as an apprentice electrician in my area would gravitate toward a 4% chance of employment over a 96%??? 

Also, I know lots of vets. Most seek employment in civil service. Many that I know work at the local Air Force Base.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

*Just the facts...*



miller_elex said:


> Hey phatso, Texas may be in the crapper for marketshare, but here its above 90%. And I was on the other side before, so I know what I'm talking about when I say more vets on the union side.


As a whole IBEW is in the minority, ignoring the facts does not make them less true. You can hardly base your limited experience on both sides of the fence in one area as a authoritative statement of fact for all areas. Just becuase your truck is big and blue, does not mean all trucks are big and blue. 

IBEW has lost market share all over the country, not just the south, even the union strong holds up north do not have the monopoly they once had. Just out of curiosity how many union contractor do you know that do residential? Why do you think IBEW has a "market recovery plan"?

I can tell you from my limited and local experience that most “electricians” in Texas are not Veterans, hell if you take resi-work into account the vast majority are not even Americans but to apply that to the whole country would be as mistaken as your assumption that all trucks are big and blue. 

Let say for arguments sake you were correct, I don’t believe you are, but this leads into another point. Even then I'm not sure I could sell that as a reason for using my union labor. Especially after Obama and his wack-job Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano labeled all you vets as potential terrorist and put you on their watch list. 

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=10231150 

Wow, and to think you union vets bought this kind of label with union dues; I guess you do get what you pay for. 

Your Pal, 

Phatzo


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

nick said:


> I like to know whos the moron who thinks a sticker is a safety problem and explain why ? take care be safe


Well with a comment like this why wouldn't you expect me to get defensive and offende?



nick said:


> Well first i dont like the response to my post or the attitude of a know it all .


Well excuse me for knowing the safety standards and regulations related to my trade. I will try to forget some things if that makes you happy. 

I am just trying to answer the OP's question and you go on the attack, I am here to help those who are looking for answers to thier questions with facts, not my personal opionons. I have trained thousands of guys like you who are stuck in thier ways of doing things a certian way and have it in thier head that thier way is the right way and only way. I can't change your attitude, and wont bother trying.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

nick said:


> Well first i dont like the response to my post or the attitude of a know it all .
> 
> I think for myself and make mistakes some times!!
> That hard hat sticker rule thats my comment sick or not !


I don't think your comment is sick. I think it's realistic.



> Personally i think the ruling is made by just a few who never have worn a hard hat everyday for many years and i wonder some times how they come up with some of there safety rules .
> Yes there is rules and regulations some good some bad .
> But lets demonstrate some respect online we are electricians we are all different and have different ways we think . I dont type good or write good sometimes i get a little bit out of line but ive worn a hard hat since 1969 so dont tell me that a sticker is bad . take care


Nick once I was in a bucket, approx. 30' from the ground. The company "safety officer" said I should be wearing a hard hat. I was not on a construction site, and a hardhat would do me as much good as any passerby on the street below. Nobody is working above me, save for the birds and airplanes and clouds, but, nevertheless they wanted me in a hardhat.

So I dropped a fixture from the bucket approx 10' from the safety officer and said: "Shouldn't YOU be wearing a hardhat too?"


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> As a whole IBEW is in the minority, ignoring the facts does not make them less true. You can hardly base your limited experience on both sides of the fence in one area as a authoritative statement of fact for all areas. Just becuase your truck is big and blue, does not mean all trucks are big and blue.
> 
> IBEW has lost market share all over the country, not just the south, even the union strong holds up north do not have the monopoly they once had. Just out of curiosity how many union contractor do you know that do residential? Why do you think IBEW has a "market recovery plan"?
> 
> ...


 
Elvis, union's loss of market share is not indicitive of the public's or the worker's or the employer's free will that there is something inherently wrong with unions. The loss of market share is directly tied to the ongoing corporate campaign that has tilted the scales of justice in favor of the corporation, and the the lack of enforcement and prosecution by the political party in power.

Now please, stop spewing propoganda. Trickle-down doesn't work, unless of course you're the beneficiary of trickle down, in which case like you, you'll defend it to the hilt. 

And most union contractors don't engage in residential because nonunion has sucessfully taken that part of the market. Why? One because any IDIOT just out of trade school can wire a house, it isn't rocket science. It is the DUMBEST part of the electrical trade. ENTRY LEVEL. HENCE, look who's doing most of it? 

And because the credo of nonunion is sell high and treat your labor like scum, you lose your BEST help to become your competition. It's silly and shortsighted and exactly what you deserve because you think contractors should be wealthy for "taking risk" while labor, working for a fair day's pay should fare no better than a McDonald's burger flipper if at all possible. 

Now tell me who is doing the nuclear plants and the recycling facilities and the certified welding work, and the jobs that require something more than a drunk or an ex-convict with a "certificate" , the jobs where contractors have to put up a multi-million dollar performance bonds, and the trading floors and the research facilities...

Keep in mind union work reached it's height in the 60's, when the standard of living in the USA was at it's BEST. Coincidence? I don't think so. There is something very wrong when a business's succxess is based wholly or partially on how cheaply it can supply labor. 

We saw an EXCELLENT example of this on 9/11 - when "Security Contractors" employed ex-cons and social rejects at minimum wage to supply airlines with "security checkpoints" at all airports, and the owners of these "Security firms" were raking in millions for providing absolutely nothing of value at great expense to the American public.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Seven paragraphs of spin, false accusations, and typical anti-business ideologue ranting yet not one word of actual rebuttal to the facts I spelled out.

You want to know why IBEW is loosing market share, its the radicals like Lawnguy. Maybe selling your service and selves by telling your customers how great and perfect you are and stupid and corrupt they are worked 40 years ago but it does not work now. It just pushes us further and further away.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Zog said:


> Well with a comment like this why wouldn't you expect me to get defensive and offende?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well Zog we have no problem with your giving us information on safety. 

We just dont like some of the rules they make and yes iam set in my ways when it comes to my hard hat kinda . We like our stickers now what we do Zog if we work hot is we ware a full hot suit gloves and hood . 
The class E hat is clean no stickers and only used for that day !! And the hood thats if we work hot and thats a last option meaning rare!! meaning our company only uses ppe when needed and new & clean never a old hard hat or old dirty gloves . 

We always shut down power if possible . I have no hard feelings Zog you got my feathers ruffled and iam fine dont take my post as the last post !! I do understand what your trying to say i know your a fine electrician just lets not talk about hard hats anything else is ok with me, hope to see ya on another post dont be offended thats just me old age does that .take care


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

nick said:


> Well Zog we have no problem with your giving us information on safety.
> 
> We just dont like some of the rules they make and yes iam set in my ways when it comes to my hard hat kinda . We like our stickers now what we do Zog if we work hot is we ware a full hot suit gloves and hood .
> The class E hat is clean no stickers and only used for that day !! And the hood thats if we work hot and thats a last option meaning rare!! meaning our company only uses ppe when needed and new & clean never a old hard hat or old dirty gloves .
> ...


 
I never hold grudges, if I stopped talking to everyone that has ever pissed me off I would not have anyone to talk to, including myself.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

[quote=LawnGuyLandSparky;



And because the credo of nonunion is sell high and treat your labor like scum,
Were non union and treat our works like there family we have 1200 workers !

Now tell me who is doing the nuclear plants and the recycling facilities and the certified welding work, and the jobs that require something more than a drunk or an ex-convict with a "certificate" , the jobs where contractors have to put up a multi-million dollar performance bonds, 

We can and due power plants , industrial commercial work . some pretty large projects !

Keep in mind union work reached it's height in the 60's, when the standard of living in the USA was at it's BEST.

We kinda work for the 23 largest electrical contractor in the usa and were kinda happy for 27 years now good pay good bennys i think its who or were you work times have changed.

Ive been union and non union ive done power plants and shopping malls its all electrical . our company has from time to time employed union workers as we have all the work we work fine together yes some of us are union . take care


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Now please, stop spewing propoganda.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Coming from you that's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard! :laughing:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

nick said:


> Were non union and treat our works like there family we have 1200 workers !
> 
> Now tell me who is doing the nuclear plants and the recycling facilities and the certified welding work, and the jobs that require something more than a drunk or an ex-convict with a "certificate" , the jobs where contractors have to put up a multi-million dollar performance bonds,
> 
> ...


OK Nick, you are back on my good side. well said.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well Zog i think we all come from different electrical back grounds which influences what we do .I still learn everyday this has never stopped electrical work is still a changing field there is always someone smarter or has a new way to do it . 

My father and brother were union i was union once back 1968 and also 4 year served in the us navy em3 as a electrician shipboard ,But i always found that if you treat a worker as you would want to be treated you can get more work from that worker and also trust . 
Sugar is better the salt !!

I respect my crew and have been in the field for years ,i also have never had a union issue since ive been in this trade on jobs we do some projects which are half union & non union we all work together and respect each others work . 
We share tools or materials and work in a professional manor .
In fact we have been on fishing trips or had a few at the local pub after work i think the old ways have come to pass between union and non union now 35 years ago that would be a different storie . Take care be safe


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

nick said:


> Well Zog i think we all come from different electrical back grounds which influences what we do .I still learn everyday this has never stopped electrical work is still a changing field there is always someone smarter or has a new way to do it .
> 
> My father and brother were union i was union once back 1968 and also 4 year served in the us navy em3 as a electrician shipboard ,But i always found that if you treat a worker as you would want to be treated you can get more work from that worker and also trust .
> Sugar is better the salt !!
> ...


I was union (Local 580 Detroit) and am now non union and agree with your views, dont thinj there really is much of a difference in the people and skills (Good and bad can be found in both). Was also navy for 9 years, EMC(SS). 

I do think there are still the old grudges between union and non in certian areas of the country, where you live there is not much of a union presence, other areas (Like detriot) are union heavy. The areas where there is the most tension are the areas with a large population of electricians and not nearly enough work to go around (Again, like Detroit).


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well power distribution NIMITZ CVN-68 - plank owner = EM3 4 years was electrician before the navy and still today , guess ill never learn or amount to anything lots of wires twisting over the years .
Yes the unions in the south are not as strong as the north were from Edison new jersey originally kinda from the north . 
came south local 606 worked for johnson controls in 1970.
Liked the warm weather stayed never went back .take care


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Why does the IBEW need a uniform? It is up to the individual, and the shop that they work at, that need to make that determination.

For every job there is a different situation. If your running underground utilities, how good do you have to look? Opposite side of the coin, if you do high-end service calls in a stock brokers office, khaki's and a polo shirt maybe the required wear. 

Between president obummer, and those that thirst for power to micro-manage people from the cradle to the grave, please turn me around at your doorstep. If you need an electrician, and I'm dispatched to your shop, perhaps we can both benefit?!

For the record, I am IBEW.

Rockyd


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> Seven paragraphs of spin, false accusations, and typical anti-business ideologue ranting yet not one word of actual rebuttal to the facts I spelled out.
> 
> You want to know why IBEW is loosing market share, its the radicals like Lawnguy. Maybe selling your service and selves by telling your customers how great and perfect you are and stupid and corrupt they are worked 40 years ago but it does not work now. It just pushes us further and further away.


You been in Texas all your life?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Peter D said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
> 
> Coming from you that's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard! :laughing:


Yea, now that you point it out, it is kinda funny... :laughing:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Rockyd said:


> Why does the IBEW need a uniform? It is up to the individual, and the shop that they work at, that need to make that determination.
> 
> For every job there is a different situation. If your running underground utilities, how good do you have to look?


Exactly.



> Opposite side of the coin, if you do high-end service calls in a stock brokers office, khaki's and a polo shirt maybe the required wear.


Practically is. Tan or beige Khaki's. Short-sleeved collared (company) polo shirt and NO pocket. (If the electrician smokes, the office personnel don't want to see the pack of Marlboros in the pocket.) Even though some traders have hundreds of tins of Copenhagen or Skoal piled around their workstations.)



> Between president obummer, and those that thirst for power to micro-manage people from the cradle to the grave, please turn me around at your doorstep. If you need an electrician, and I'm dispatched to your shop, perhaps we can both benefit?!
> 
> For the record, I am IBEW.
> 
> Rockyd


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Practically is. Tan or beige Khaki's. Short-sleeved collared (company) polo shirt and NO pocket. (If the electrician smokes, the office personnel don't want to see the pack of Marlboros in the pocket.) Even though some traders have hundreds of tins of Copenhagen or Skoal piled around their workstations.)


Polo shirts W/O pockets are ********, I won't own a shirt without pockets, and that is the first time I have ever heard of someone micromanaged to the point they could not have a pack of cigarettes in their own pocket.

I will ask a service man to comb his hair, wear a watch and keep good hygiene but I wont tell him what he can and can't put in his own pockets. I do however ask my service men to keep a pen and note pad handy and that pocket in the shirt sure does come in handy.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> Polo shirts W/O pockets are ********, I won't own a shirt without pockets, and that is the first time I have ever heard of someone micromanaged to the point they could not have a pack of cigarettes in their own pocket.............


 
And if they don't have a pocket,:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> Polo shirts W/O pockets are ********, I won't own a shirt without pockets, and that is the first time I have ever heard of someone micromanaged to the point they could not have a pack of cigarettes in their own pocket.


Phat, I'm with you. If there's a construction worker w/o a vice like smoking, chewing, a few beers, obnoxious tattoos, or whatever, I probably wouldn't want to know him. We are what we are, and it's not Macy's perfume counter clerks. But not only do they not want to see cigarettes in pockets, they don't want to see t-shirt sleeves extending beyond the shirt sleeve, like when it's cooler out and you wear a 3/4 sleeve Tee or thermal T under the Polo... 

These are the kinds of people that scatter and clear out an entire office like a Chinese fire drill because above the ceiling someone said something that sounded like "asbestos."

Above the ceiling:
"Hey Jack, you think we can sneak through that firewall penetration?" 
"I dunno Mark, we'll do as best as we can"

From a cubicle workstation below the ceiling:
"DID SOMEONE SAY ASBESTOS?!?!?! Everybody OUT!!!"



> I will ask a service man to comb his hair, wear a watch and keep good hygiene but I wont tell him what he can and can't put in his own pockets. I do however ask my service men to keep a pen and note pad handy and that pocket in the shirt sure does come in handy.


I'm talking about firms that lease 20 floors of a building and basically own the management, and know what kind of power they weild. A maintenience man could be seen in somewhat faded coveralls and suddenly there's a whole new shipment of new coveralls on the loading dock because the client being wooed might not think as highly about the company you keep, or employ...


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> And if they don't have a pocket,:


If you showed up like that, you'd get in, you'd go to your shapeup area and start your assignment. Then sometime about coffeebreak you'd get your layoff.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> I will ask a service man to comb his hair, wear a watch and keep good hygiene but I wont tell him what he can and can't put in his own pockets..


Why the watch?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> If you showed up like that, you'd get in, you'd go to your shapeup area and start your assignment. Then sometime about coffeebreak you'd get your layoff.


That's about the only photo I could find with someone with a pack of coffin nails folded over in the shirt sleeve.



MF Dagger said:


> Why the watch?


To keep track of billing hours.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Yep that is the reason, if you are working service you have to have a way to track billing hours.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Watch? That is so yestercentury! Doesn't your cell phone have the time on it, at a glance? No jewelry on my arms, fingers. Tough enough keeping them from dangers in the field, let alone baiting the product we work with.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Yeah I know, the truth is the GPS is better at tracking time, but its a hold over from the old man. However I have been working with a watch for over 20 years and it has never baited anything.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Rockyd said:


> Watch? That is so yestercentury! Doesn't your cell phone have the time on it, at a glance? No jewelry on my arms, fingers. Tough enough keeping them from dangers in the field, let alone baiting the product we work with.


Which would you rather use?










OR


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Which would you rather use?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



Which do *YOU* carry in your truck? :laughing:


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Dude, I dont need a watch, my iPod had the time on it... gosh.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Thought thats was they gave me a pager.. So I would know what time it is.. Do they have another use?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

I like to call it PRIDE


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

I like to call it "Making the customer happy and putting money into my contractor's pocket".


Anything else is just getting in the way. If some people would put the thought into their work that they put into all this extra nonsense, we'd all be doing much better.

And yes, my new Carhartt might have a smudge from my Sharpie or a drop of PVC Cement on it. I'm going to keep wearing it, if that offends you then you need to find something else to do. In the meantime, I'm going to be making money and keeping the people who count happy.


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