# New JM to Industrial



## seered (Aug 27, 2016)

I'm moving from commercial to industrial/petrochemical shift work and wondering what are some things I can study on to prepare? I hear a lot about grunt work, pulling cable, grounding, heat trace, installing cable tray. That's all fine, but I'm wondering more about things like motor control. What technical skills are essential for a new worker (journeyman) to industrial besides safety? What are some big no-no's? I assume I can't carry a knife on site or use a ladder. I don't want to get kicked off site for any safety reason. I also want to learn as much as possible.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

seered said:


> I'm moving from commercial to industrial/petrochemical shift work and wondering what are some things I can study on to prepare? I hear a lot about grunt work, pulling cable, grounding, heat trace, installing cable tray. That's all fine, but I'm wondering more about things like motor control. What technical skills are essential for a new worker (journeyman) to industrial besides safety? What are some big no-no's? I assume I can't carry a knife on site or use a ladder. I don't want to get kicked off site for any safety reason. I also want to learn as much as possible.


Why can't you use a ladder? 
You can use a knife, but the breakaway blade ones are not allowed on most sites. One guy told me I couldn't use a Linesman's knife to strip cable hooking up their generator. I said, "Ok, have a good night. Here is my bill to drive here and back home." "Where are you going?", they asked. "If I can't use my tools I can't connect your generator.". 
If you haven't done much grounding, or heat trace or light repairs then get ready to do them. There's different ways of doing things than in a commercial setting. 
Pay attention to those trying to teach you. Nothing will sour an experienced worker in that field, and more so that industry, if someone that is green off the street comes in and figures they're gonna be sitting inside troubleshooting some fart fan while the experienced guy is pulling a ground wire near a furnace. Not the kind of furnace you're thinking of either.


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## seered (Aug 27, 2016)

glen1971 said:


> Why can't you use a ladder?
> You can use a knife, but the breakaway blade ones are not allowed on most sites. One guy told me I couldn't use a Linesman's knife to strip cable hooking up their generator. I said, "Ok, have a good night. Here is my bill to drive here and back home." "Where are you going?", they asked. "If I can't use my tools I can't connect your generator.".
> If you haven't done much grounding, or heat trace or light repairs then get ready to do them. There's different ways of doing things than in a commercial setting.
> Pay attention to those trying to teach you. Nothing will sour an experienced worker in that field, and more so that industry, if someone that is green off the street comes in and figures they're gonna be sitting inside troubleshooting some fart fan while the experienced guy is pulling a ground wire near a furnace. Not the kind of furnace you're thinking of either.


I've heard a lot of industrial sites have gone no ladders, no knives but maybe I'm wrong. I don't mind starting from the bottom and doing whatever grunt work is needed, I just don't want to show up and get told to go terminate some motor controller that I haven't seen since school or figure out some VFD or something like that. I might be overthinking it, I know most guys would just show up and go with the flow. I've never done high voltage terminations, motor controls I'm a bit rusty on, and then working in a huge petrochemical environment will be new as well.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

seered said:


> I've heard a lot of industrial sites have gone no ladders, no knives but maybe I'm wrong. I don't mind starting from the bottom and doing whatever grunt work is needed, I just don't want to show up and get told to go terminate some motor controller that I haven't seen since school or figure out some VFD or something like that. I might be overthinking it, I know most guys would just show up and go with the flow. I've never done high voltage terminations, motor controls I'm a bit rusty on, and then working in a huge petrochemical environment will be new as well.


You'll have lots that is new, and lots that can be overwhelming.
Review manuals that are relevant to your equipment on site. Why worry about Siemrns VFDs if all they have are ALB? Why worry about ALB PLCs if they use GE or Modicon? 
Brush up on your area classification requirements. Nothing kicks my blood pressure up more than seeing the wrong wiring methods or devices in an area. I saw Class 2 rated starters in a Class 1 area. Today I saw a brand spanking new flow transmitter with conduit coming out of one side and down to a pick-up on the flow meter. Seal on each end of the conduit, Belden wire not properly stripped for a seal, not a union to be seen on it, so working on it involves spinning the flow meter off the pipe. Then inside I see 7' of wire, including the ground wire, coiled up inside.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

seered said:


> I've heard a lot of industrial sites have gone no ladders, no knives but maybe I'm wrong. I don't mind starting from the bottom and doing whatever grunt work is needed, I just don't want to show up and get told to go terminate some motor controller that I haven't seen since school or figure out some VFD or something like that. I might be overthinking it, I know most guys would just show up and go with the flow. I've never done high voltage terminations, motor controls I'm a bit rusty on, and then working in a huge petrochemical environment will be new as well.



Don't stress it we don't let the noobs screw it up as that means we will have to fix it. 

First thing you are going to have to get use to is safety training courses which are boring as hell followed by environmental, chemical safety, electrical safety and a bunch more that are even more boring. 
At least you will learn about ladders and knifes. 

Then you will follow a guy around like a lost puppy dog trying to figure out where the hell you are and where the hell you are going. After 3 days doing training courses this will seem like Christmas as its lots of bullshitting / meet and greets.


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## seered (Aug 27, 2016)

Appreciate it. Looking forward to it now!


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

seered said:


> Appreciate it. Looking forward to it now!


Good luck! One day at a time!


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

seered said:


> What are some big no-no's? I assume I can't carry a knife on site or use a ladder. I don't want to get kicked off site for any safety reason. I also want to learn as much as possible.


You are about to learn "industrial knee-jerk reaction safety" 

Fred was walking through the yard with a piece of 2" conduit on his shoulder. As he turned he hit Tim in the head. Tim's was wearing a hat hat no injury to report.

Safety ... all conduit is to be carried by 2 people. One on each end.

Onsite ... 2 silverbacks are carrying a stick of 1/2 emt and everyone is ribbing them about it.

Fred fell of a ladder. Safety rules no one is allowed above 6' with out a harness. Fred only fell from the bottom step. Safety rules you need a managers permission to use a ladder then spends thousands buying roll around stairs with safety rails and a place to hook a lanyard. 

Why did it take 10 guys to screw in a light bulb. Safety guys response "there was only 10. That's a 14 person job someones getting written up"


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

Here's how I learn.

When you see something and don't know exactly how it works, take a picture of it, the nameplate or whatever.

If you're in a panel just take a picture of it. Take pictures of everything actually.

When you get home type it in to Google and start reading manuals, white papers whatever.

I always have a pocket t-shirt so I always have a rite-in-the-rain for when I can't use my phone or can't get a good photo of the nameplate or whatever.


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## em158 (Jul 7, 2016)

I've been working utilities, power plants and LNG import/export plants for over 40 years. As time has gone by every year plant personnel have gotten smaller, and contractor #'s have gone up. Construction, conduit, and wire pulling is almost all contracted out. Plant electricians trouble shoot and keep the plant running at all costs. The gas plant I'm currently at counts hours of downtime in the 100's of thousands of $. Do not start work until every line on every work permit is filled out and signed. If you are seen waiting for the operators to authorize you to start working it is accepted as part of the process. If you start working before being told to proceed, and trip the 5 HP fan motor that causes a turbine to trip on trip on high lube oil temperature, you won't get many second chances. A pressure, temperature, level and or flow switch that you don't even know exists can trip the whole shebang through control logic. No one technician will know the everything inter-related in the control schemes, every department signs off on work before it starts. In todays world every variable is monitored and logged down to the millisecond, and they will go to great lengths to find the root cause of the failure.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

I wouldn't worry too much about the new employer turning you loose on something you're not ready for.

They cannot afford any downtime.

When I arrived at my current employer, even with 40 plus years of electrical experience, I had to tag along with an mechanic for about two weeks.

If I needed into a panel or control cabinet, I had to go to the maintenence supervisor, and ask for him to unlock the panel or cabinet.

Then stand there and explain to him what I was planning to do.

A bit annoying for me with my experience, but it's their field, I'll play their game.

After two weeks they gave me a set of keys.

If they assign you something you have never done before, let them known you have never done that.

But you want to learn and ask them to teach you.

I would much rather someone tell me they don't know how to do something, then for them to pretend they know what they are doing, and end up screwing something up.

You won't get fired for not knowing something, you will get fired for lying about your abilities and screwing something up.

Forget what you have "heard" about industrial plants, they all operate differently and have different rules.

Wait and find out their rules when you get there.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

gpop said:


> You are about to learn "industrial knee-jerk reaction safety"
> 
> Fred was walking through the yard with a piece of 2" conduit on his shoulder. As he turned he hit Tim in the head. Tim's was wearing a hat hat no injury to report.
> 
> ...


I always thought it was 6 ft until my daughter the new safety manager told me it’s 4. Only 6 feet for construction.

The OSHA standard for construction (29 CFR 1926.501) requires workers to use fall protection with an unprotected edge that is 6 feet above a lower level. The standard for general industry, walking-working surfaces (1910 Subpart D) requires fall protection at 4 feet. This protection can be provided by a guardrail, safety net or personal fall protection system


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