# Problem With Electronic Ballast



## sbrn33

I don't think I have installed a T-12 ballast in the last ten hell, maybe fifteen years. Why would you do that to your customer?


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## A Little Short

sbrn33 said:


> I don't think I have installed a T-12 ballast in the last ten hell, maybe fifteen years. Why would you do that to your customer?


Because that's what he wanted!


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## sbrn33

But he doesn't know any better. You should.


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## Shockdoc

I installed an old T8 4 lt ballast in a wraparound in my basement, capped the extra leads off, left the T12 bulbs in it. Works fine and even brighter than original.


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## svh19044

It's most likely wired wrong. Get a new ballast, wire the electronic correctly, and it will work just fine. It's not a "wire to wire" replacement. Look at the schematics.


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## svh19044

sbrn33 said:


> I don't think I have installed a T-12 ballast in the last ten hell, maybe fifteen years. Why would you do that to your customer?


One of my customer had 100 t12ho's stockpiled. I learned from my previous post.


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## kbsparky

Advance ballasts are turning into junk. 

We have replaced many of them in the same place sometimes 3 or 4 times.

I date stamp them now with a Sharpie pen, so we can keep track of how long they last. They're guaranteed for 5 years, and we end up making the manufacturer replace about ½ of them under warranty.

Needless to say, our customers are not happy with having to replace ballasts every other month.

I've started using Sylvania ballasts to see if they are any better in endurance.


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## A Little Short

svh19044 said:


> It's most likely wired wrong. Get a new ballast, wire the electronic correctly, and it will work just fine. It's not a "wire to wire" replacement. Look at the schematics.


If this were my first electronic ballast to put in I might agree with you. However it's not. But I always look for what I might have done wrong before changing parts. I checked my connections before I took out the first one that popped. I double checked on the second on (actually more than twice) before I turned it on. Everything is wired as shown on the ballast. Same way I've wired them before with no problems.

Funny thing is the first one went out pretty fast. The second one took a couple of hours.


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## erics37

kbsparky said:


> I've started using Sylvania ballasts to see if they are any better in endurance.


They suck worse but they're a step above TCP ballasts.


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## chicken steve

kbsparky said:


> Advance ballasts are turning into junk.
> 
> We have replaced many of them in the same place sometimes 3 or 4 times.
> 
> I date stamp them now with a Sharpie pen, so we can keep track of how long they last. They're guaranteed for 5 years, and we end up making the manufacturer replace about ½ of them under warranty.
> 
> Needless to say, our customers are not happy with having to replace ballasts every other month.
> 
> I've started using Sylvania ballasts to see if they are any better in endurance.


 
bring back the old PCP infested ballasts says i! they'd need be hit by lightning to fail.......~CS~


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## Aegis

It may also be the brand. I learned this a while ago, mixing magnetic and electronic ballasts on the same cct can cause problems. I would install one and 2 more would go out. This won't always happen, it's only happened to me once, mixing T8 electronic with T12 magnetic.


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## 347sparky

chicken steve said:


> bring back the old PCP infested ballasts says i! they'd need be hit by lightning to fail.......~CS~


Wow, PCP ballasts? All we ever get to take out are PCB style!


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## Aegis

I had a thread about this last year sometime. Here's part of what I found online. It may not be happening to you but here it is.

"If conventional magnetic ballasts are being replaced by High Frequency electronic ballasts, all ballasts on a circuit must be replaced totally before power is restored.

Spikes produced by the magnetic ballasts may damage the electronic ballasts."

"When the switch opens the current suddenly changes. This causes a drastic change in voltage in a very short time period (a mains spike). Amplitude depends on switch off angle (possibly kV). Spike will be positive or negative depending on switch off angle. Voltage across the lamp and magnetic ballast will remain fairly constant. The remaining voltage is across the switch. This is also seen on the terminals of the electronic ballast. This very high voltage spike causes the damage."


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## BuzzKill

Aegis said:


> I had a thread about this last year sometime. Here's part of what I found online. It may not be happening to you but here it is.
> 
> "If conventional magnetic ballasts are being replaced by High Frequency electronic ballasts, all ballasts on a circuit must be replaced totally before power is restored.
> 
> Spikes produced by the magnetic ballasts may damage the electronic ballasts."
> 
> "When the switch opens the current suddenly changes. This causes a drastic change in voltage in a very short time period (a mains spike). Amplitude depends on switch off angle (possibly kV). Spike will be positive or negative depending on switch off angle. Voltage across the lamp and magnetic ballast will remain fairly constant. The remaining voltage is across the switch. This is also seen on the terminals of the electronic ballast. This very high voltage spike causes the damage."


Interesting!


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## A Little Short

Aegis said:


> I had a thread about this last year sometime. Here's part of what I found online. It may not be happening to you but here it is.
> 
> "If conventional magnetic ballasts are being replaced by High Frequency electronic ballasts, all ballasts on a circuit must be replaced totally before power is restored.
> 
> Spikes produced by the magnetic ballasts may damage the electronic ballasts."
> 
> "When the switch opens the current suddenly changes. This causes a drastic change in voltage in a very short time period (a mains spike). Amplitude depends on switch off angle (possibly kV). Spike will be positive or negative depending on switch off angle. Voltage across the lamp and magnetic ballast will remain fairly constant. The remaining voltage is across the switch. This is also seen on the terminals of the electronic ballast. This very high voltage spike causes the damage."


This is just a single light fixture, no other lights on this circuit.


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## GEORGE D

Did you pull out tombstones and make sure everything was good? Those wires in the back-stabs get loose real easy. Also, did you do a basic voltage test on line wires? Maybe part of a faulty mwbc.


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## A Little Short

GEORGE D said:


> Did you pull out tombstones and make sure everything was good? Those wires in the back-stabs get loose real easy. Also, did you do a basic voltage test on line wires? Maybe part of a faulty mwbc.


No, I already said I didn't check the voltage but I will when I go back. I didn't pull out the tombstones, I would have if I'd been there the 2nd time it failed. I stayed a while after replacing the 2nd ballast to make sure it worked. The first failed after a couple of minutes so when the last one stayed on for a while I left thinking all was good. It didn't fail for a couple of hours.


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## BuzzKill

Little-Lectric said:


> No, I already said I didn't check the voltage but I will when I go back. I didn't pull out the tombstones, I would have if I'd been there the 2nd time it failed. I stayed a while after replacing the 2nd ballast to make sure it worked. The first failed after a couple of minutes so when the last one stayed on for a while I left thinking all was good. It didn't fail for a couple of hours.


yeah, sounds like an internal short maybe


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## erics37

Little-Lectric said:


> No, I already said I didn't check the voltage but I will when I go back. I didn't pull out the tombstones, I would have if I'd been there the 2nd time it failed. I stayed a while after replacing the 2nd ballast to make sure it worked. The first failed after a couple of minutes so when the last one stayed on for a while I left thinking all was good. It didn't fail for a couple of hours.


I'm still wondering why you're f**king around with T12s.


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## BuzzKill

erics37 said:


> I'm still wondering why you're f**king around with T12s.


cheap client


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## erics37

BuzzKill said:


> cheap client


A T8 ballast and lamps aren't exactly going to break the bank.


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## BuzzKill

erics37 said:


> A T8 ballast and lamps aren't exactly going to break the bank.


more labor involved...I dunno.


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## user4818

erics37 said:


> A T8 ballast and lamps aren't exactly going to break the bank.


Yeah, a 4 lamp costs a whopping $16.


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## greenman

Did u look at the wire diagram, you half to re-wire it 
you cant not just replace it like for like.


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## user4818

An electronic T12 ballast is wired exactly the same as a magnetic T12. It's would be pretty hard to mess that up.


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## greenman

Peter D said:


> An electronic T12 ballast is wired exactly the same as a magnetic T12. It's would be pretty hard to mess that up.


 I changed out an old magnetic ballast today for an electronic ballast (T-12).


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## erics37

greenman said:


> I changed out an old magnetic ballast today for an electronic ballast (T-12).


Good job!


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## BuzzKill

erics37 said:


> Good job!


and nothing blew up.


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## dthurmond

We are in the process of changing our whole plant over to T 8 from T 12. We have had this problem also with the electronic ballast burning out with in minutes or sometimes a couple of hours . What we found on the original wiring of the tomb stones the yellow wires were connected in series through the bulbs instead of parallel . It is real easy not to notice this . This did not seem to bother the magnetic t 12 but the electronic t 12 would burn up .


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## BBQ

Little-Lectric said:


> If this were my first electronic ballast to put in I might agree with you. However it's not. But I always look for what I might have done wrong before changing parts. I checked my connections before I took out the first one that popped. I double checked on the second on (actually more than twice) before I turned it on. Everything is wired as shown on the ballast. Same way I've wired them before with no problems.
> 
> Funny thing is the first one went out pretty fast. The second one took a couple of hours.


Regarless of what has worked before checK the wiring, check to see if the fixtures have shunted sockets and see if tha ballast can use shunted sockets. 

A shunted socket has both terminals electrically connected inside and often has a large S printed on the back side.


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## BBQ

Peter D said:


> An electronic T12 ballast is wired exactly the same as a magnetic T12. It's would be pretty hard to mess that up.


Don't count on it, some are the same, some are not. 

It depends on the ballast.


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## Aegis

dthurmond said:


> We are in the process of changing our whole plant over to T 8 from T 12. We have had this problem also with the electronic ballast burning out with in minutes or sometimes a couple of hours . What we found on the original wiring of the tomb stones the yellow wires were connected in series through the bulbs instead of parallel . It is real easy not to notice this . This did not seem to bother the magnetic t 12 but the electronic t 12 would burn up .


 We have a client that gives us a ton of work, big jobs. But when it comes to their own office they are so cheap! Instead of us providing the ballasts they go and get a full fixture from home depot. I think the fixture is $15-$18 and they want us to rip the ballasts out and use them to replace the tombstones in their place. These Home Depot ones are in series just like you said.


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## user4818

BBQ said:


> Don't count on it, some are the same, some are not.
> 
> It depends on the ballast.


:001_huh:

Come to think of it, an 8' ballast is wired differently, but the 4' is exactly the same.


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## TOOL_5150

Peter D said:


> :001_huh:
> 
> Come to think of it, an 8' ballast is wired differently, but the 4' is exactly the same.


8' tubes are garbage anyway...:thumbsup:


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## user4818

TOOL_5150 said:


> 8' tubes are garbage anyway...:thumbsup:


I agree, 8' tubes are a dinosaur now, and should always be retrofitted with 4 footers. They're only good for cheap customers who won't upgrade.


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## Shockdoc

Peter D said:


> I agree, 8' tubes are a dinosaur now, and should always be retrofitted with 4 footers. They're only good for cheap customers who won't upgrade.


What was the design thing with the old,old T12f96ho that had a spiral the length of the bulb?


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## Shockdoc

Do they offer a electronic replacement for the unpopular 22 and 32 watt circleline?


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## user4818

Shockdoc said:


> What was the design thing with the old,old T12f96ho that had a spiral the length of the bulb?


Never seen one. :001_huh:


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## Shockdoc

Peter D said:


> Never seen one. :001_huh:


Early 70s thing


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## A Little Short

Peter D said:


> An electronic T12 ballast is wired exactly the same as a magnetic T12. It's would be pretty hard to mess that up.





BBQ said:


> Don't count on it, some are the same, some are not.
> 
> It depends on the ballast.


Well this one wires exactly the same as the magnetic one.

Changed the ballast again after checking line voltage, sockets, etc. 
No problems with last one so far, so chalk it up to Advance ballast made in China.
The last one was made in Mexico.


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## olelarsonelectric

just had the same problem with some 4ft 2 lamp t12 advance ballasts today. re-wired 100% correct. customer had 2 boxes of t12 bulbs to use up and a pile of ballasts, all of them popped. im wondering if bad system ground is the issue? ballast says it must be grounded, metered hot to ground, got 120, still popped.


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## Holop

Make sure there is no short between pins of the lamp to the fixture sometimes old sockets break and lamp short on ground. Also just replace the tombstones because old tombstones sometimes are weird enough to somehow short out and give you headaches. Also I found in past sometimes bad bulb can make a ballast fail so just replace bulbs. Check for reversed hot and neutral and ofcourse check wiring especially if it's 4 lamp fixtures because sometimes you can mistake wires from both ballasts and out them into same socket or w/e.


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## Holop

BBQ said:


> Regarless of what has worked before checK the wiring, check to see if the fixtures have shunted sockets and see if tha ballast can use shunted sockets. A shunted socket has both terminals electrically connected inside and often has a large S printed on the back side.


I have never seen t12 using shunted sockets. I believe all t12s are rapid start and never instant.


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## swarner11

You should use good and reliable electronic products......... :thumbsup:


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