# CA Outdoor GFCI protection



## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

As per the 2005 NEC that California utilizes per the CEC help me out with this.

Tankless water heaters being installed outdoors. Means of disco are pigtail or switched, fine. Question, does the power supply for the tankless (in a wet location..outdoor) need to be GFCI protected?

As per NEC 09 does the power supply need to be GFCI protected?

Thanks


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I use a single receptical and no gfi.


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## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

What does 08 say for outdoor?

I thought all outdoor rec's must be GFI protected.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

JamesINla said:


> What does 08 say for outdoor?
> 
> I thought all outdoor rec's must be GFI protected.


The OP stated the Cali electric code (based on the '05 NEC) but the requirement for GFCI protection outdoors (in the NEC) is the same between the '05 and the '08 - required.

My take is, (barring local amendments) if the WH is cord-and-plug, the receptacle is required to have GFCI protection. If it is hard wired, then no GFCI.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> The OP stated the Cali electric code (based on the '05 NEC) but the requirement for GFCI protection outdoors (in the NEC) is the same between the '05 and the '08 - required.
> 
> My take is, (barring local amendments) if the WH is cord-and-plug, the receptacle is required to have GFCI protection. If it is hard wired, then no GFCI.


 
I agree with the outlet having to be GFCI but if hardwired remember the wire would have to be rated for a wet location.


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## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> The OP stated the Cali electric code (based on the '05 NEC) but the requirement for GFCI protection outdoors (in the NEC) is the same between the '05 and the '08 - required.
> 
> My take is, (barring local amendments) if the WH is cord-and-plug, the receptacle is required to have GFCI protection. If it is hard wired, then no GFCI.


*ok, so why is GFCI protection expendable in a hard wired application?*

I was under the impression that 08 stated ALL exterior electrical devices must be be GFI protected, versus 05 where wet / damp rec locations needed to be GFI protected.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

JamesINla said:


> *ok, so why is GFCI protection expendable in a hard wired application?*


Because GFCI is for personal protection on all 125v 15 & 20amp *receptacles,* 210.8(A)



> I was under the impression that 08 stated ALL exterior electrical devices must be be GFI protected, versus 05 where wet / damp rec locations needed to be GFI protected.


Only if the devices are cord & plug connected to a 125volt, 15 or 20amp receptacle.


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## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

Makes perfect sense to me. Thank You, that is what I needed to know.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

You might want to check with the inspector first on
the cord and plug.

There is one city I work in that will not allow cord and
plug connections to tankless heaters under any
circumstances.


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## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

rexowner said:


> You might want to check with the inspector first on
> the cord and plug.
> 
> There is one city I work in that will not allow cord and
> ...


Why do they have an issue with means of disconnect?

There is no issue in La. or Ventura counties.

You're up in San Jose....Bay area has some slightly odd ammendments.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

JamesINla said:


> Why do they have an issue with means of disconnect?
> 
> There is no issue in La. or Ventura counties.
> 
> You're up in San Jose....Bay area has some slightly odd ammendments.


Yep.

Los Altos states in their guidelines for a final inspection:
http://www.ci.los-altos.ca.us/commdev/building/documents/FINALINSPECTIONREQUIREMENTS_002.pdf


> Cord and plug electrical service to furnaces and instantaneous water heaters is not allowed. (NEC 400-7 and 422-16) Electrical supply shall be hard wired in rigid conduit or flexible conduit from an electrical box with a snap switch, branch-circuit over current device or branch circuit switch or circuit breaker located within sight of the appliance. (NEC 422.30, 31 & 32)


I don't agree with their interpretation, especially when
some tankless heaters come with instructions to wire
them with cord and plug. It was less time and hassle
to just hardwire rather than argue with them, but it
seemed silly. I have not seen any other cities 
make this interpretation, but I am curious if anyone
else does.


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