# CCTV, Alarm systems, Access Control, and Fire alarms



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm looking to get into the market of CCTV systems, Alarm systems, Access Control systems, and Fire alarm systems. (All for residential, not really into the Comercial end of things). I'm pretty sure I need a licence or certificate of some sort for the fire alarms. I'm wondering what I need to get started. I'm currently employed as an electrical apprentice. 

I'm going to register my company name and get liability insurance. 

Do I need any licences for the CCTV systems or Alarm systems or Access control systems? I would tell the customers to go with an outside company for monitoring.

I'm located in Ottawa, Ontario Canada. 

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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

In my jurisdiction, you're miles away from having the requisites for such an enterprise.

You'll find that you have to be bonded, etc.

That's a TALL barrier.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

telsa said:


> In my jurisdiction, you're miles away from having the requisites for such an enterprise.
> 
> You'll find that you have to be bonded, etc.
> 
> That's a TALL barrier.


Not that tall. It helps to have some assets, but if you don't you can play games with credit offers and get a really good rating in no time flat. I did it that way and secured a 1.6 million bond in my mid twenties and to be honest about it, I had a pickup truck on payments at the time and zero real estate.
What I did have however was Moxie. Maybe this young whipper snapper has him some Moxie also.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

If you're planning on making a living on this, residential isn't the way to go. With all the "plug n play" home security kits out there, joe homeowner isn't going to pay someone to "install" something they can do themselves. Besides, they never have any money.
Smaller commercial enterprises have more cash flow, and are more willing to part with it.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

joebanana said:


> If you're planning on making a living on this, residential isn't the way to go. With all the "plug n play" home security kits out there, joe homeowner isn't going to pay someone to "install" something they can do themselves. Besides, they never have any money.
> Smaller commercial enterprises have more cash flow, and are more willing to part with it.


I already have a guy who is willing to pay after he found out our shop got broken into... it's over 3k for the parts alone on his house xD but yes, I will have to look into small Comercial I suppose. Will I need a networking licence for that if I'm installing IP systems?

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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> I already have a guy who is willing to pay after he found out our shop got broken into... it's over 3k for the parts alone on his house xD but yes, I will have to look into small Comercial I suppose. Will I need a networking licence for that if I'm installing IP systems?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Not sure about certificate requirement's in Canada, but in the states we need a "lo-vo" cert. for voice/data/video installs.
What type of systems are you considering installing? IP cameras are about the only thing's that need hard wiring any more, and WiFi is taking that over. Everything else is "peel n stick". Structured cabling is on it's way out too, with WiFi gateways taking over.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

joebanana said:


> Not sure about certificate requirement's in Canada, but in the states we need a "lo-vo" cert. for voice/data/video installs.
> What type of systems are you considering installing? IP cameras are about the only thing's that need hard wiring any more, and WiFi is taking that over. Everything else is "peel n stick". Structured cabling is on it's way out too, with WiFi gateways taking over.


I'm looking at IP and standard systems. As far as I can find there's no licences needed for any of this work here.

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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

Look again !....Alarm systems usually require special licence in most cities....and Fire Alarm instals in commercial bldgs certainly do in Vancouver ; even emergency lighting does So I would think Ottawa has similar requirements ; not to mention you'll need good insurance / bond if you're a fire alarm installer....good luck on getting that if you've no experience.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

@Kevin_Essiambre can I ask what kind of work you (not your employer) actually do?

How much resi are you used to?

One job does not a company make, you need one after the next continually.

Carefully weigh your options and if you can (certifications pending) start the work as side work and build from there as many successful others have done before you.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

We're almost all Resi electrical work. I've done very small amount of Comercial (lucky to be 1 percent of the work I've done.) I don't think I really need anything other than my business licence and liability insurance. I can't seem to find anything about CCTV and alarm systems in Ottawa Ontario and area. Fire alarms I know I need something else for. I appreciate all of your guy's help.

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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

joebanana said:


> If you're planning on making a living on this, residential isn't the way to go. With all the "plug n play" home security kits out there, joe homeowner isn't going to pay someone to "install" something they can do themselves. Besides, they never have any money.
> Smaller commercial enterprises have more cash flow, and are more willing to part with it.



That's not compleatly true. High end custom residential customers don't want lick-n-stick transmitters on all their windows and doors and they are willing to pay quite a bit to have them hardwired. That said, you are going to be dealing with some really expensive doors and windows. Custom front doors and chevron sliders are routinely $10k US and upwards of $40k... regular windows run in the $1k / hole and they can be rather complicated to drill without damaging the mechanisms or causing leaks. 

In short, if you don't know what you're doing it can cost you a fortune if you make a mistake. Even if you do know what you're doing, there is tremendous liability.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

five.five-six said:


> That's not compleatly true. High end custom residential customers don't want lick-n-stick transmitters on all their windows and doors and they are willing to pay quite a bit to have them hardwired. That said, you are going to be dealing with some really expensive doors and windows. Custom front doors and chevron sliders are routinely $10k US and upwards of $40k... regular windows run in the $1k / hole and they can be rather complicated to drill without damaging the mechanisms or causing leaks.
> 
> In short, if you don't know what you're doing it can cost you a fortune if you make a mistake. Even if you do know what you're doing, there is tremendous liability.


Yeah, and most people who own those type of homes want a multi-million dollar bond, and the second you make a hole they freak out.
Another thing I've noticed over the years is, the more money people have the harder it is to get paid.
I used to avoid McMansions like the plague.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

It all depends on how good your bull**** is.


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

joebanana said:


> Yeah, and most people who own those type of homes want a multi-million dollar bond, and the second you make a hole they freak out.
> ...


The attorney that drew up my first Alarm Installation Contract didn't understand why I insisted the phrase "... cut, drill, make holes, ..." be part of the contract. I should have hired someone well versed in the alarm industry but was too new to realize it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> We're almost all Resi electrical work. I've done very small amount of Comercial (lucky to be 1 percent of the work I've done.) I don't think I really need anything other than my business licence and liability insurance. I can't seem to find anything about CCTV and alarm systems in Ottawa Ontario and area. Fire alarms I know I need something else for. I appreciate all of your guy's help.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


I have no idea what the environment is for this type of work is up there but where I've worked the market is loaded with guys that do CCTV, alarms, et al. 

Unless you were extremely adept at this work and have a great set of suppliers with heavy discounts I wouldn't make the split to go out on your own in those areas. 

But as I said that is based on the places I've worked.


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## Echo (Nov 9, 2017)

Once again, I know this is an old post, and Kevin, you may be well on your way onto your venture by now. Having offered these amenities and for the past 18 years, I can tell you, at least in Texas, you have to be licensed for the security aspect, and the fire aspect separately (yes, two licenses). You have to work for a licensed company for at least two years before applying to take the Security Manager's test yourself, and then you have to provide the proper proof of insurance to get the licenses. The process can take a few months. The fines for doing the work without a license are hefty and I've seen them break companies over it. 

Once you're finally in the business, you'll have to fight all the snakes in the grass that will tell your wired homeowners that they're "the local security provider for that area" and try to steal your business away from you. The kit alarm systems aren't really the competitors here, but you also have to know that there is zero margin in the product. Everyone playing in this industry does it for the recurring revenue part of it. Just know that Licensing, and Insurance are also recurring costs so be ready to sell enough jobs to make up for your costs. It isn't a kind industry. Once you're established, it can be profitable though. We offer a lot more than just security systems so we find ways to be profitable.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Echo said:


> Once again, I know this is an old post, and Kevin, you may be well on your way onto your venture by now. Having offered these amenities and for the past 18 years, I can tell you, at least in Texas, you have to be licensed for the security aspect, and the fire aspect separately (yes, two licenses). You have to work for a licensed company for at least two years before applying to take the Security Manager's test yourself, and then you have to provide the proper proof of insurance to get the licenses. The process can take a few months. The fines for doing the work without a license are hefty and I've seen them break companies over it.
> 
> Once you're finally in the business, you'll have to fight all the snakes in the grass that will tell your wired homeowners that they're "the local security provider for that area" and try to steal your business away from you. The kit alarm systems aren't really the competitors here, but you also have to know that there is zero margin in the product. Everyone playing in this industry does it for the recurring revenue part of it. Just know that Licensing, and Insurance are also recurring costs so be ready to sell enough jobs to make up for your costs. It isn't a kind industry. Once you're established, it can be profitable though. We offer a lot more than just security systems so we find ways to be profitable.


Thank you Echo. 

I have put this venture on hold for now. I'm moving across the country this spring. I'll be trying to break into the market there (or just work for a company out there for now) but i appreciate your help. 

I'll still be trying to get my insurance and get bonded so I can do side jobs (that don't require any licences).

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## batwing44 (Feb 2, 2010)

In Ontario there are no rules or permits or licence or C of Q to be a locksmith or install & monitor alarm or card access systems. Check with The Ontario Locksmith Association (TAOL) or Canadian Alarm & Security Association (CANASA) for current rules. You can leave prison & start a lock & alarm company with no checks. I know because I once worked on a legislation coalition to create these regulations & and background check (1994).Four years of our lives wasted.
To date no regulation has been passed. you don't even need a class 2 wiring permit. No mandatory education required.


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## sandbox (Jun 13, 2016)

batwing44 said:


> In Ontario there are no rules or permits or licence or C of Q to be a locksmith or install & monitor alarm or card access systems. Check with The Ontario Locksmith Association (TAOL) or Canadian Alarm & Security Association (CANASA) for current rules. You can leave prison & start a lock & alarm company with no checks. I know because I once worked on a legislation coalition to create these regulations & and background check (1994).Four years of our lives wasted.
> To date no regulation has been passed. you don't even need a class 2 wiring permit. No mandatory education required.



I rarely think about security because we have a 3rd party company we hire to do that work. I always knew that in Ontario there were no requirements to work in this field but I truly never considered for a minute, like you said, someone could leave jail and be a locksmith next day. Don't get me wrong, picking locks might be what got them into prison so maybe they are pretty good at it. but Wow, yea a background check would be nice. I just worked at a resort last week and we didn't have to sign in or anything I went to the front desk, asked for a master key and a list of occupied units and they just handed it over. People are way to trusting in my eyes, and proper precautions should be taken, especially in property management.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I put the access control and video monitoring system into the largest airport in my state, and also the adjoining interisland terminal under a second open source bid contract. I started out in the business with about $500 dollars to my name but I knew how to get and leverage credit. The total of those two jobs alone was close to thirteen million dollars. Moxie. You are not born with it every time like it seems some are, but you can learn how to do it by doing it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

By the way, I haven't done any of that style of work in decades, so please do not ask me questions on how to do the physical hookups crap , the whole thing has changed massively since the days I messed around with it.


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## WrongWire (Dec 1, 2017)

Have you checked withe the city? They should have a list of requirements for you there.


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