# Comparing USA consumer voltages with Australian voltages



## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

So you didn't ask for Canada, but here's some info on Ontario, Quebec.
This will be similar to the US and in fact many lines cross the border 
selling power in both directions. Quebec is generally a seller of elect 
power as they have a glut of hydro generated power. 

The link didn't appear to include the most common commercial/industrial 
system up here which is 3ph 600/347. Think this is different from the US. 
Think the US uses a lot of 480/277. 
P&L



http://www.hydroquebec.com/learning/transport/parcours.html


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Consumer voltage = single family = 240/ 120 split phase 60Hz pretty much standard nationwide now. There are some exceptions but everything is made for that if it's made for a consumer.


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

Thx for that...I will look it up soon. Yes I realized that North America is the better term...after I posted I was reading about transmission systems and the 2 major and 3 minor interconnectors. Very interesting how HVDC and variable frequency transformers are used to allow energy exchange between incompatible systems.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

List of Worldwide AC Voltages and Frequencies might be a start deadshort

one query we often field in the US is, why the neutral? 

pursuant to that , as an aside to your OP would be>>>

Earthing systems

~CS~


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

Looking for diagrams/explanations of distribution transformers.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

You want a poco EE deadshort, they're a tad scarce here ...~CS~


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

And for what purpose this great need into the secrets of our energy distribution system? Are you a *MUSLIM TERRORIST?!?!?! 
*


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

Thx CS - the link about Earthing is very interesting to me. 

It appears that both North America and Aust/NZ require consumer level distribution (transformer secondary windings) to be grounded, and that the network provides the fault current path via PEN to the consumer's neutral link. Then we require separation of PE and N throughout the consumer's installation so that earthing system only carries "fault" currents and some very low functional earthing currents.

Is it correct that most domestic and commercial consumer voltages (both 1ph and 3ph) are produced with 1ph pole-top canister transformers? ie 3ph customers are supplied by three 1ph cans with primaries and secondaries interconnected Wye or Delta as required?

I am currious to see transformer diagrams for:

120/240v
240 3ph (with a 208v "hotleg?")
Other voltages (eg industrial, rural, marine)

Especially interested in the primary and secondary configs, and how neutrals are connected.

Anybody?


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

poco EE?


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## lightman (Oct 14, 2015)

GE has a good book on transformer connections. In the US you see mostly combinations of Delta and Wye with a rare Star connection.

If I can find a spare copy I'll contact you and try to mail it to you.


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

Is Wye and Star connection the same thing? I thought so, and Delta=Mesh? 

Another tangent to explore...I always loved this stuff during my trade school days. Nice to revisit as my holiday reading! But interesting to see that Ibe forgotten more than I learned ?


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

deadshort44 said:


> poco EE?


poco is used by the US guys for power company
EE is electrical engineer
P&L


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

Thx P&L...I would never have guessed. And...It turns out that your comment was the most helpful, coz I went serching EE forums and this is what I found (seems to answer my questions exactly):

http://electrical-engineering-porta...ations-with-three-three-phase-hot-power-lines

ds44


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

That's _spot on_ info Deadshort

To_ reiterate_ , most of our residential systems are 3ph, 3 cans , solid ground wye , TN−C−S earthings , M.E.N. (multiple earthed neutral) systems

~CS~


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> And for what purpose this great need into the secrets of our energy distribution system? Are you a *MUSLIM TERRORIST?!?!?!
> *


Well with a name like deadshort....


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Well with a name like deadshort....


I can smell an evildoer a mile away...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I can smell an evildoer a mile away...


Wording and zealousness speak volumes! :thumbup:


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

I am curious about how electrical equipment is rated..eg 1ph motors, a/c, water heaters etc that are too heavy loads for 120v.

Coz you have 240volt 1ph across the hot legs from centre tapped transformers and the older Delta TX too, does that mean your wye 3ph TX (120/208v) and 208v high leg can't be used for 240v 1ph loads?

Or do your heavy 1ph loads have separate current and kw ratings for for each voltage? 

I'm guessing that the 208v high leg is just an unwanted byproduct of providing a PEN from delta connected 3ph transformers, right?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

deadshort44 said:


> I am curious about how electrical equipment is rated..eg 1ph motors, a/c, water heaters etc that are too heavy loads for 120v.
> 
> Coz you have 240volt 1ph across the hot legs from centre tapped transformers and the older Delta TX too, does that mean your wye 3ph TX (120/208v) and 208v high leg can't be used for 240v 1ph loads?


No, higher wattage devices like kitchen ranges, dryers, high HP motors, water heaters, are dual rated to operate on 208v or 240v.


> Or do your heavy 1ph loads have separate current and kw ratings for for each voltage?


Exactly.


> I'm guessing that the 208v high leg is just an unwanted byproduct of providing a PEN from delta connected 3ph transformers, right?


Unwanted? Not exactly.


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## deadshort44 (Dec 30, 2016)

Unwanted...and nuisance byproduct. 

Unwanted...How is 208v useful when ph-ph gives 240v? 

Nuisance...The risk for the inexperienced picking up the highleg when connecting ph-n loads or re-organising a distribution board.

So, how is the highleg useful in any way?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Australia. We here in US have better power distribution, just face it. You however have better scenery on your beaches so we are even brothers.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> Australia. We here in US have better power distribution, just face it. You however have better scenery on your beaches so we are even brothers.


What's better on his beaches?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MikeFL said:


> What's better on his beaches?


You know the saying, the bush is always greener on the other side of the equator.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

deadshort44 said:


> Unwanted...and nuisance byproduct.
> 
> Unwanted...How is 208v useful when ph-ph gives 240v?
> 
> ...


There's a history of poco's moving from Delta to Wye here Deadshort, said highlegs still existing in a _non_ industrial setting are a pita 

Also, we are one of the few _lower_ voltage countries , which will inevitably lead you to understand our _copperholic_ installs

~CS~


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

deadshort44 said:


> Thx P&L...I would never have guessed. And...It turns out that your comment was the most helpful, coz I went serching EE forums and this is what I found (seems to answer my questions exactly):
> 
> http://electrical-engineering-porta...ations-with-three-three-phase-hot-power-lines
> 
> ds44


I like that link ds44. Lots of useful info but concise enough to absorb. 
Being a big fan of Wikipedia, I'll suggest a couple of their pages: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_distribution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-leg_delta
P&L


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Most everything in the public domain related to power (V, Hz & phase) is geared toward consumer appliances. There's not much out there to tell you about distribution & availability. 

Look up any country you know on any of those charts and it will tell you whether you can use your electric razor but not whether you can install industrial machinery or even heavier consumer appliances. 

You'd be hard pressed to find something that says the USA has 240 or that Canada has 530. And you sure won't see 208, 277 or 480 on any of those charts.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

MikeFL said:


> And you sure won't see 208, 277 or 480 on any of those charts.



Unwanted...and nuisance byproduct. 

Unwanted...How is 277v useful when ph-ph gives 480v? 

:jester::jester:


:laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The amount of imbalance(s) traveling through the earth assumes an appreciable level of waste....~CS~


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Australian receptacles look like they are on drugs.

USA receptacles seem like they are just surprised or disappointed.

I draw these conclusions based on people I know who have the same facial expressions.

EJPHI


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

deadshort44 said:


> Unwanted...and nuisance byproduct.
> 
> Unwanted...How is 208v useful when ph-ph gives 240v?
> 
> ...


A 3Ø service that gives both 120 and 240 will always have a high leg, there's no way around it. 

So yes, the high leg is useless but only to a point. 

Here in the US, there are no single pole breakers that will fit a 120/240 panel that are rated for 208 volts, they are all 120. So you cannot use the high leg to neutral. But you most certainly can use the high leg and one of the other phases for a 240 volt load but not for a 120/240 load. 

An example of a 240 volt load would be a water heater. The neutral is not involved. An example of a 120/240 load would be a dryer. It uses both hots and the neutral. 

Of course, there are a number of so-called electricians who will say that the high leg is for 3 phase only when the actual truth is that it can (and should) be used for any 240 volt single phase load that does not involve the neutral.


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