# Ground clip installation



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

What type of ground clip are you asking about?:001_huh:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here is what a found after a quick search-- now do your own dirty work.


> Ground Clip, Side Mount, For Grounding #14 to #10 AWG Wire to Side of Box, Length 0.5 In, Width 0.5 In, Depth 0.5 In, Material of Construction Steel, Standards UL


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Try the raco site


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Here is what a found after a quick search-- now do your own dirty work.


Yeah, thats what I'm looking for. What search words did you use, I tried 'ground clip installation' on google and got squat. Thanks for the little picture that old guys can't see.:001_huh:

Does anyone know who makes them?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Yeah, thats what I'm looking for. What search words did you use, I tried 'ground clip installation' on google and got squat. Thanks for the little picture that old guys can't see.:001_huh:
> 
> Does anyone know who makes them?


Race 975 that I linked to in the first post.

Here is a better image. I went to google and then choose image from the menu at the top and then typed in ground clip. The last picture I typed ground clip installation


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Thats it, perfect thanks. The reason I asked is today I noticed that two of my guys installed them two ways different than shown above. One looked like it was beaten onto the box with a shovel.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> *One looked like it was beaten onto the box with a shovel*.


That's what happens when Al has to work indoors. Any reason you didin't use ground screws. I have a nice set of bits that drill and tap (one bit) that is perfect for this. Plumber even borrowed it the other day.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I even bought a special box of 8-32 green ground screws, since the ground screw holes in the old black boxes were tapped at 8-32 (if they had a tapped hole). If not, I use the Dtapkit too. I haven't used a ground clip in probably 10 years.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I haven't used a ground clip in probably 10 years.


I bought one of those little packages of six they sell at HD and Lowes. Since on average I use one every few years, I think I'm good for the next decade or so. :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That's what happens when Al has to work indoors. Any reason you didin't use ground screws. I have a nice set of bits that drill and tap (one bit) that is perfect for this. Plumber even borrowed it the other day.


That is nice.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I use the ground clips a lot. I keep them in my pouch with the staples and ground screws.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I haven't used a ground clip in forever, but I still run into them. I like that set of drills and tap combinations. Do they handle the torque from a driver okay?

I have a hand tap that has all the common sizes, fine and course, on two ends. It fits into a driver handle. I just broke the tip tapping some old Steel City boxes which had #8, untapped holes.

I use screws.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Any reason you didin't use ground screws.


I'm rewiring an install done in 1981. EMT and 1900 boxes shot to a concrete ceiling.



waco said:


> I haven't used a ground clip in forever


 I don't care for them but I have little choice for this install.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Here's another:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

waco said:


> I like that set of drills and tap combinations. Do they handle the torque from a driver okay?
> 
> .


If you are not careful, you can snap them, especially the smaller sizes. Luckily, they can be purchased separately.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Here's another:


Still a little small. I want to print something that shows the teeth on the outside of the box, the wire in the slot for the wire and the pigtail facing into the box. A picture is worth...... when there is a language barrier.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> If you are not careful, you can snap them, especially the smaller sizes.


Or spread them until they are useless.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Still a little small. I want to print something that shows the teeth on the outside of the box, the wire in the slot for the wire and the pigtail facing into the box. A picture is worth...... when there is a language barrier.


 
Sorry, that and the one already posted is all I have in my arsenal. What's wrong with just showing them with your own hands & tools?



Chris Kennedy said:


> ........ One looked like it was beaten onto the box with a shovel.


No digging for Al today? :laughing:


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> What's wrong with just showing them with your own hands & tools?


I'm losing my patience, tired of repeating myself, looking to post pictures around the job sites. Its not just this issue, many others. If we strapped MC at 1' and 4' on the last job, why would you think its OK to strap at 2' and 6' on this job. I could go on and on. Burned out.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Funny how none of these pictures show the pile of junk ones they had to get through to get one to hold.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> Funny how none of these pictures show the pile of junk ones they had to get through to get one to hold.


You got that right!


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## westernexplorer (Jun 20, 2009)

Chris,

One thing we use to do on old remodels when we ran into 1900 boxes shot straight to a block wall or ceiling was. Take some green stingers with screws and place them in a 1900 box and take your hacksaw and cut them off flush with the back of the box. Then when you install them into the real box on the wall or ceiling the screw will flush right up to the concrete behind the box.....

I know, I know....LOL. Some joker now is going to say, What about the UL listing on the green screw..?

I have talked to many other inspector's and there isn't anyone to my knowledge who thinks this is a bad idea.....


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

westernexplorer said:


> Chris,
> 
> One thing we use to do in Ft. Lauderdale when we ran into 1900 boxes shot straight to a block was. Take some green stingers with screws and place them in a 1900 box and take your hacksaw and cut them off flush with the back of the box. Then when you install them into the real box on the ceiling the screw will flush right up to the concrete behind the box.....
> 
> ...


That's why the new boxes have that little bubble, so the screw doesn't stick out. The screws aren't UL listed anyhow. You can use any old machine screw with the appropriate thread pitch.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> That's why the new boxes have that little bubble, so the screw doesn't stick out. The screws aren't UL listed anyhow. You can use any old machine screw with the appropriate thread pitch.


I wish all the new boxes had them but some don't. I think the deep 4"sq boxes have them but the 1 5/8" deep boxes do not-- at least at my supply company. I usually use them in pocket doors where there is a 2x4 placed 90 degrees from the norm and then I hacksaw the screw so the door doesn't hit it.


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## westernexplorer (Jun 20, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> That's why the new boxes have that little bubble, so the screw doesn't stick out. The screws aren't UL listed anyhow. You can use any old machine screw with the appropriate thread pitch.


 
MDShunk,

His question was about older existing boxes, already installed on the ceiling.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

westernexplorer said:


> MDShunk,
> 
> His question was about older existing boxes, already installed on the ceiling.


Maybe. I just interject with stuff that might or might not apply. I'm wild and crazy like that. 

Carry on...


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I think that if someone made a ground screw that had a couple 10-32 threads up near the head, and a masonry bit on the tip, that would be a good seller.


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## westernexplorer (Jun 20, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Maybe. I just interject with stuff that might or might not apply. I'm wild and crazy like that.
> 
> Carry on...


 
No problem......:thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I'm losing my patience, tired of repeating myself, looking to post pictures around the job sites. Its not just this issue, many others. If we strapped MC at 1' and 4' on the last job, why would you think its OK to strap at 2' and 6' on this job. I could go on and on. Burned out.


I take it you and Al are the only non-knuckle-draggers in the outfit?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I take it you and Al are the only non-knuckle-draggers in the outfit?


From my perspective and experience, there's a lot of otherwise knowledgeable and skilled people who will try to get away with cutting corners when nobody is watching. I don't necessarily call them ignorant or dumb, but so many employees have no real investment in doing the job the way you want it done.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

westernexplorer said:


> Some joker now is going to say, What about the UL listing on the green screw..?


To my knowledge the green 10/32s aren't listed and don't have to be. Cutting them off isn't a bad idea, but I have around 50 boxes, so its clips.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I cannot even comprehend why anyone would buy a box without the raised ground screw bump anymore. Nor can I comprehend why they are still made and sold. I guess old habits die hard.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I cannot even comprehend why anyone would buy a box without the raised ground screw bump anymore.


These boxes were shot in 1981. Try to keep up Peter.:laughing:

(F1 3pm FOX)


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> These boxes were shot in 1981. Try to keep up Peter.:laughing:
> 
> (F1 3pm FOX)


Like Marc, I often spit out random information that has nothing to do with the thread. Threadjacking is one of my specialties. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Threadjacking is one of my specialties. :laughing:


Pete's new avatar.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> To my knowledge the green 10/32s aren't listed and don't have to be. Cutting them off isn't a bad idea, but I have around 50 boxes, so its clips.


So clips it is Chris. I always see them out on the shelf or hanging in the showroom/counter at my local Graybar in bags of 50 & 100. They don't even keep them behind the counter. Somebody is using them for sure. Or thats why they are in front.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Pete's new avatar.


 
MDR!!!!!!!!!!! { LOL !!!!!!!!!!}

Now that is good way to start up the day 

Merci,Marc


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I been using the grounding clips for quite a while and I can get them in box of 100 so they get some use out it and there are few spots I end up useing them due some of the steel box the grounding screw is pretty much fuber'ed so I use them { I know some case it much quicker than the time to retap it with oversized grounding screws } 

Merci,Marc


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## westernexplorer (Jun 20, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> To my knowledge the green 10/32s aren't listed and don't have to be. Cutting them off isn't a bad idea, but I have around 50 boxes, so its clips.


Chris, not being listed is debatable. NEC 250.8 says "or other listed means." NEC 250.148(C) says grounding screw or a listed grounding device.....anyway the grounding screws are design to UL standards.....

Not to get off subject, you could make those 50 screws in 10 mins with a box and hacksaw. Just an idea.....I always had trouble with those clips...


see link
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2DCN2?BaseItem=2DCL9


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I do not believe you will find a UL listed green grounding screw or even a UL category for one.

On the other hand grounding clips are UL listed.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Pete's new avatar.


Perfect. :thumbup:


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

westernexplorer said:


> Chris, not being listed is debatable. NEC 250.8 says "or other listed means." NEC 250.148(C) says grounding screw or a listed grounding device.....anyway the grounding screws are design to UL standards.....
> 
> Not to get off subject, you could make those 50 screws in 10 mins with a box and hacksaw. Just an idea.....I always had trouble with those clips...
> 
> ...


Thanks John, but I don't see any standards mentioned in your link???


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I take it you and Al are the only non-knuckle-draggers in the outfit?


I can bring in some additional help from the shop on Saturdays. I had José and Hose B helping us. Not real commercial electricians.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Thanks John, but I don't see any standards mentioned in your link???


The Grainger link says 



> Ground Screw, Four Way Slotted/Phillips/Hex Head Combo, Thread Size 10-32, For Ground #32 to #10 AWG Wire, Length 3/8 In, Material of Construction Zinc steel,* Standards UL *


But they do not say they are listed, no do they give any UL number.

When I do a search in the UL white book I can find standards for grounding clips but nothing for either "ground screws" or "grounding screws"

I think Grainger's writer was assuming.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

I see, thanks.


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## westernexplorer (Jun 20, 2009)

The Thomas and Betts brand claim they are listed....

http://doitbest.com/main.aspx?memberid=1875h&associate=true&pageid=64&sku=515838


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

westernexplorer said:


> The Thomas and Betts brand claim they are listed....
> 
> http://doitbest.com/main.aspx?memberid=1875h&associate=true&pageid=64&sku=515838


I believe the point is that the ground screw does not need to be listed. Whether a mfg decides to list it or not is up to them but not necessary.


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## petek57 (Mar 3, 2009)

waco said:


> . Do they handle the torque from a driver okay?
> 
> .



Actually they don't. You can do it but it takes a special touch not to break the tap


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Seems like I recall a white paper from the UL a few years ago, where they were answering IAEI questions. The UL plainly said that any screw that conforms to SAE specifications for machine-type screws and will engage the box with 2 full threads is compliant. I think they were saying that they have no standard because the SAE already does.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

westernexplorer said:


> The Thomas and Betts brand claim they are listed....
> 
> http://doitbest.com/main.aspx?memberid=1875h&associate=true&pageid=64&sku=515838


They give no UL number and I tried to find it at the UL certification page ...... no luck.

I can not even find them on T&Bs web site. :no:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Many grounding products are listed under UL "KDER"

Here is a link to it.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073988940&sequence=1

Notice the absence of grounding clips.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

A trick I use when I run into a 1900 box mounted to concrete wall is to drill out the ground screw hole with the small size Tapcon bit (5/32" , the one designed for the 3/16 tapcons)

Does not damage the threads of the ground screw hole at all and ground screw goes right in.

This assuming the boxes have a ground screw hole, I know some of the real old ones don't


But ground clips are listed I just hate using them unless I absolutely have no choice


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

I think the last grounding clip I used was on a 4-square metal cover with a nonmetallic box. Does this mean I will not be eligible to receive communion this week? :laughing:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

KayJay said:


> I think the last grounding clip I used was on a 4-square metal cover with a nonmetallic box. Does this mean I will not be eligible to receive communion this week? :laughing:


You are forgiven, my son.
:whistling2:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

westernexplorer said:


> Chris, not being listed is debatable. NEC 250.8 says "or other listed means." NEC 250.148(C) says grounding screw or a listed grounding device.....anyway the grounding screws are design to UL standards.....
> 
> Not to get off subject, you could make those 50 screws in 10 mins with a box and hacksaw. Just an idea.....I always had trouble with those clips...
> 
> ...


He said they (boxes) were already mounted to concrete. The clips are the easiest and fastest way to do this. They are made just for this type of application. I would not hesitate for one second. I would use them and forget them.


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