# 376.22 '14 change



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I like my wireways, makes a job neat,:thumbsup: just noticed this change>>>



> 376.22 (B) Adjustment  Factors. The adjustment factors in
> 310.15(B )(3)( a) shall be applied only where the number of
> current-carrying conductors, including neutral conductors
> classified as current-carrying under the provisions of
> 310.15(B)(5), *exceeds 30 at any cross section of the wireway*.


I read this as allowing 29 conductors from multiple directions , as long as they don't cross each other.....

related Q for our Canadian brothers here, what does your CEC say about this?

~CS~


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> I like my wireways, makes a job neat,:thumbsup: just noticed this change>>>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't have any idea what you mean by that statement.

It means that if you cut though the wireway and the conductors and look at the cut end and count the conductors, there is no derating required unless you have more than 30 conductors.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> I don't have any idea what you mean by that statement.
> 
> It means that if you cut though the wireway and the conductors and look at the cut end and count the conductors, there is no derating required unless you have more than 30 conductors.


Yes, and thanks for the clarification Don

~CS~


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

chicken steve said:


> I like my wireways, makes a job neat,:thumbsup: just noticed this change>>>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They limit us to 20% x-sectional area, max 200 conductors

We have a derating table for cable trays though


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

We just discussed that last night in class. In the '11 it said you derate if there are 30 conductors in the wireway. So if you had 3 wires going straight through the trough in 10 places (20 pipes, 10 on top & 10 on the bottom) you would have to derate all to 45%. Not really any heating going on. Why put in the wireway then? Seemed logical to clarify the wording. There's some good pix of this in the IAEI Changes to the '14 NEC.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

emtnut said:


> They limit us to 20% x-sectional area, max 200 conductors
> 
> We have a derating table for cable trays though


200 vs. 30 ENut?

Are our wiring methods so different they'd warrant such a disparity? :blink:

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

ralpha494 said:


> We just discussed that last night in class. In the '11 it said you derate if there are 30 conductors in the wireway. So if you had 3 wires going straight through the trough in 10 places (20 pipes, 10 on top & 10 on the bottom) you would have to derate all to 45%. Not really any heating going on. * Why put in the wireway then?* Seemed logical to clarify the wording. There's some good pix of this in the IAEI Changes to the '14 NEC.


It would be the same amount of wire in a panel below it , in fact probably more due to all the wirenuts , etc Ralph....

~CS~


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

chicken steve said:


> 200 vs. 30 ENut?
> 
> Are our wiring methods so different they'd warrant such a disparity? :blink:
> 
> ~CS~


I don't know where the 200 max came from, but I guess they figure no derating necessary with the 20% fill.

Did you guys always derate ?


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

This is not really a change as much as it is a retraction. in the '05 and before NEC the wording was correct and the intent was derating after the cross section went over 29 conductors.

For whatever reason they re-worded it in the '08 NEC and screwed it all up. They have finally corrected it.

If you have a job under the '08-'11 code cycle you may still get away with the un-derated conductors if your troft qualifies as an auxiliary gutter and not a wireway.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Good one Cabletie...:thumbsup:

So for sake of clarity, allow me to post both definitions here (i'll use metal )

and _maybe_ i can be educated to the defining qualities ....





> *376.2 Definition. *
> *Metal Wireways.* Sheet metal troughs with hinged or re-
> movable covers for housing and protecting electrical wires
> and cable and in which conductors are laid in place after
> the raceway has been installed as a complete system.





> *366.2 Definitions. *
> *Metallic Auxiliary Gutter.* A sheet metal enclosure used
> to supplement wiring spaces at meter centers, distribution centers, switchgear, switchboards, and similar points of
> wiring systems. The enclosure has hinged or removable
> ...


~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

emtnut said:


> I don't know where the 200 max came from, but I guess they figure no derating necessary with the 20% fill.
> 
> Did you guys always derate ?


We not only derate, we seem to double derate some items ENut......~CS~


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I think an auxiliary gutter has a 30' max length limitation also. Not sure if it has to be connected directly to the panel or if it can use nipples like you normally see up to a wireway.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

On another note you can mix service entrance conductors with fused branch conductors in an auxiliary gutter, not a wireway.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

chicken steve said:


> Good one Cabletie...:thumbsup:
> 
> So for sake of clarity, allow me to post both definitions here (i'll use metal )
> 
> ...


The gutter is an extension of equipment, the wireway is an extension of fittings is the difference I think


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

An auxiliary gutter is an extension to the space of a panel etc. and can contain busbars but cannot be longer than 30 feet.

A wireway can be any length but can't contain busbars.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

And here I swore to myself that I would not talk code on here anymore, well here it goes. 

If you take a panel adapter into a 4x4 troft. Go up 4', turn and go 3'. Now load it with 14 12-2 MCs. Is it a wireways or an auxiliary gutter?

If I stack another back box so that it sits flush to the drop ceiling and the panelboard, load it with MC. Is that a wireway or an auxiliary gutter?

Is everything we do an illusion?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I would tentatively say that taking branch circuits into a panel makes it a wireway... If it carries conductors from one panel to say a subpanel, it's an auxiliary gutter... if it carries branch circuits into a panel, and the number of conductors exceeds the cross-sectional area limits of the panel, then it is both a wireway and an auxiliary gutter...

Sounds like a superficial difference for sure.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

And I believe the UL listing has something to do with it.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I concur with the group after some serious _'beak in book' _time , thx ~CS~


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

cabletie said:


> And here I swore to myself that I would not talk code on here anymore, well here it goes.
> 
> If you take a panel adapter into a 4x4 troft. Go up 4', turn and go 3'. Now load it with 14 12-2 MCs. Is it a wireways or an auxiliary gutter?
> 
> ...



Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right, and which is an illusion.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

cabletie said:


> And I believe the UL listing has something to do with it.


It does, but there are items that have both listings.


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