# More weekend work



## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Why does pic 3 look like a 3Ø meter base?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Why does pic 3 look like a 3Ø meter base?


I know the pics are pretty but, read the words :laughing:




> Existing service was 3phase delta for the original AC. The red wire w/blue nut was the high leg which went to a feed thru breaker. It's not unusual to find them abandoned


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

220/221 said:


> I know the pics are pretty but, read the words :laughing:


Reading gives me a headache.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pulled the circuits into the panel today (Sunday).


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

OMG he used the meyers hub the correct way!


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Good looking work BTW.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> OMG he used the meyers hub the correct way!


It's funny but that is exactly what I thought. 

God damn internets. :laughing: 

I mean, who would have ever thought that a MH was (listed) for RMC only :jester:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Ha ha ha what is it like 105 in the valley right now? It's really nice up north. :laughing: 




220/221 said:


> I mean, who would have ever thought that a MH was (listed) for RMC only :jester:


One of the stupidest things ever.


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## Eclectic Electric (Jun 18, 2011)

I hate seeing so much sheath inside of boxes or panels. Please fix that ASAP.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Eclectic Electric said:


> I hate seeing so much sheath inside of boxes or panels. Please fix that ASAP.


Ill show you some sheath....


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

OMG.. you put (2) conductors under one screw on the neutral bar.. the Code Gods will not be happy with this blatant code violation!!!!.. :laughing:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> OMG.. you put (2) conductors under one screw on the neutral bar.. the Code Gods will not be happy with this blatant code violation!!!!.. :laughing:


As long as they are the same size it's legal, right?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> OMG.. you put (2) conductors under one screw on the neutral bar.. the Code Gods will not be happy with this blatant code violation!!!!..


Looks like EGC's that are doubled up. As long as the bar is listed for that its no problem.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

B4T said:


> OMG.. you put (2) conductors under one screw on the neutral bar.. the Code Gods will not be happy with this blatant code violation!!!!.. :laughing:


 
Only the grounds (legal/listed/learned on the internet) and the temp power that will be removed.





> As long as they are the same size it's legal, right?


Neutrals = one per lug. Grounds = two 12's or two 14's. It says it in the small print on the panel cover label that I never ever read before.





> I hate seeing so much sheath inside of boxes or panels. Please fix that ASAP.


Sea kelp




> Ha ha ha what is it like 105 in the valley right now? It's really nice up north.


It's only 80 where I'm sitting....but FU anyway :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Where did you get the photo of the DIYers work?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Are you kidding me??

You only wish you could could be like me, Bobby.

That **** is cleeeeeean.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Are you kidding me??


No, I am serious, if I opened that up (here) I would a assume it was a DIY did it. 

Just like you personally feel SE is nothing more than an extension cord I personally feel the cable entry method above is nothing to be proud of. 





> You only wish you could could be like me, Bobby.


Keep telling yourself that. :laughing:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

BBQ said:


> No, I am serious, if I opened that up (here) I would a assume it was a DIY did it.
> 
> Just like you personally feel SE is nothing more than an extension cord I personally feel the cable entry method above is nothing to be proud of.
> 
> ...


 
I always use seperate grounding bars for my grounding conductors. I don't put them together with the neutrals. That is what the bonding screw is for, IMO.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

FWIW Why did you buy that set screw splicer from the orange store and extend the neutral instead of buying a longer piece of wire? I see the lug in the meter socket it is not like it would not have been an easy fix. 

Other than that :thumbsup:


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

Island Electric said:


> FWIW Why did you buy that set screw splicer from the orange store and extend the neutral instead of buying a longer piece of wire? I see the lug in the meter socket it is not like it would not have been an easy fix.
> 
> Other than that :thumbsup:


 
Did you see this by the OP?



220/221 said:


> Yeah, I cut the B leg a bit short. :jester: If it wasn't temporary, I would have put in a new piece.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Island Electric said:


> FWIW Why did you buy that set screw splicer from the orange store and extend the neutral instead of buying a longer piece of wire?


It is temp. 



220/221 said:


> The plan is to install the new panel now in order to leave power to the site and have a proper place to land the new circuits.
> 
> Later, I will add a meter and mast to the left of the new panel.





220/221 said:


> Yeah, I cut the B leg a bit short. :jester: If it wasn't temporary, I would have put in a new piece.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

I missed it sorry. Must be that a-d-d kicking in again:jester:

Wait how is the B leg a neutral?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

BBQ said:


> No, I am serious, if I opened that up (here) I would a assume it was a DIY did it.
> 
> . :laughing:


I wouldn't be allowed to do that _there_ now would I? 

What method would pass your scrutiny on this type of installation? Maybe run all the cables exposed and enter the bottom of the panel? :jester:



> Just like you personally feel SE is nothing more than an extension cord I personally feel the cable entry method above is nothing to be proud of.


Not the same thing. Just like all NM, SE_ *is*_ nothing more than an extension cord. They are both just insulated wires contained in a plastic sheath. The insulation may be slightly thicker as well as the sheath, but it is still too vulnerable to be using unfused, stapled to the side of a house.

I can cite a couple of very obvious reasons (subject to damage and _unfused_) that SE service cable is unsafe. You can't cite a single reason why this method is unsafe. You can try to make some stuff up but there are no legitimate concerns.



> I missed it sorry. Must be that a-d-d kicking in again:jester:
> 
> Wait how is the B leg a neutral?


The neutral was short but the easist fix was the lug. The lug in the meter can is not really designed for two conductors. The neutral is one piec from the weather head to the panel and passes thru the lug in the meter can. Even if ir was permanent, I would have done it this way (maybe with a crimp)
The B leg was short too but since it's temp, I left it.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I can cite a couple of very obvious reasons (subject to damage and _unfused_) that SE service cable is unsafe.


:sleep1: 



> You can't cite a single reason why this method is unsafe. You can try to make some stuff up but there are no legitimate concerns.


Unsafe? No. Lazy hack work? Yes.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Lazy hack work? Yes.


Listen son. I am sick of that _lazy hack work_ bull****. I am better mechanic than you will ever be and I am a harder worker than you will ever be.

You are nothing but a punk ass wannabe contractor who doesn't even own an extension ladder. Talk to me when you move out of your Mom's house and, get a girlfriend and start a real life.


Keep up with that kind of BS and I'll internet slap the **** out of you every chance I get.:thumbsup:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Listen son. I am sick of that _lazy hack work_ bull****. I am better mechanic than you will ever be and I am a harder worker than you will ever be.
> 
> You are nothing but a punk ass wannabe contractor who doesn't even own an extension ladder. Talk to me when you move out of your Mom's house and, get a girlfriend and start a real life.
> 
> ...


 
Peter D, he got you good!:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Listen son. I am sick of that _lazy hack work_ bull****. I am better mechanic than you will ever be and I am a harder worker than you will ever be.
> 
> You are nothing but a punk ass wannabe contractor who doesn't even own an extension ladder. Talk to me when you move out of your Mom's house and, get a girlfriend and start a real life.
> 
> ...


It's lazy hack work. Sorry you have to resort to pathetic name calling, but it's lazy, plain and simple. It's no great hardship to route cables through individual romex connectors like a professional electrician. I don't care if every panel in Arizona is done that way. Makes no difference to me whatsoever. It's not a professional quality job.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> Peter D, he got you good!:laughing:


Yeah, I guess if it makes you feel good to make personal attacks. I made no personal attacks. I commented on the work he posted a picture of, not him personally. He attacked me personally. He looks the fool, not me.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> It's lazy hack work. Sorry you have to resort to pathetic name calling,


Don't you see the conflict here? If you are going to call me a lazy hack electrician, I'm going tto call you what you are, a punk.



> but it's lazy, plain and simple. It's no great hardship to route cables through individual romex connectors like a professional electrician.


How would you know *anything* about being professional? 



> I don't care if every panel in Arizona is done that way. Makes no difference to me whatsoever. It's not a professional quality job


That's like saying it's lazy/hack to use power tools. Everyone does it, it makes sense and it's safe, but....yeah....it's lazy and hack. 


Dude, you are an idiot. Think before you post.



> I commented on the work he posted a picture of, not him personally. He attacked me personally.


OK, Change my response to, "you look and act like an idiot and a punk"

Seriously :jester:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Lol.

Sent from my Droid


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Don't you see the conflict here? If you are going to call me a lazy hack electrician, I'm going tto call you what you are, a punk.
> 
> How would you know *anything* about being professional?


A professional knows how to route cables through proper romex connectors. :thumbsup:

I stand by what I said. That particular installation method is lazy and hack. That doesn't mean each and everything you do is lazy and hack. Just that particular thing.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> A professional knows how to route cables through proper romex connectors. :thumbsup:


 
Do you use connectors on your blue boxes? No because....they are not required? 

You are grasping at straws son.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Do you use connectors on your blue boxes? No because....they are not required?
> 
> You are grasping at straws son.



There is quite a bit of difference between cables into a Carlon box in an individual K.O. and a bundle of cables going into a panel through one big K.O. 


But why are you even asking me? I'm just a punk wannabe contractor with no extension ladder and no girlfriend and no real life.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I wouldn't be allowed to do that _there_ now would I?


No and settle down, that is why I said up here. Up here it would not pass inspection so if I saw that up here I would assume DIY.

Just like if someone in your area ran SE for a service, it would be out of place.



> What method would pass your scrutiny on this type of installation? Maybe run all the cables exposed and enter the bottom of the panel? :jester:


NM connectors in nice neat rows installed in the rear of the panel, you already blew out a large amount of the block so they would fit.




> Not the same thing. Just like all NM, SE_ *is*_ nothing more than an extension cord.


It is exactly the same thing, it is all about what we are each used to seeing and doing.




> I can cite a couple of very obvious reasons (subject to damage and _unfused_) that SE service cable is unsafe. You can't cite a single reason why this method is unsafe. You can try to make some stuff up but there are no legitimate concerns.


We have tried that, you discount what you dont agree with, all your facts amount to just your opinions. As many have pointed out 100s of thousands of SE installations prove your fears are unjustified.

And for the record I have never said your method above is unsafe, but you should be closing off the open chase nipple as required by 110.12(A)

Bottom line I don't have to agree with how you work and you don't have to agree with how I work.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Listen son. I am sick of that _lazy hack work_ bull****. I am better mechanic than you will ever be and I am a harder worker than you will ever be.
> 
> You are nothing but a punk ass wannabe contractor who doesn't even own an extension ladder. Talk to me when you move out of your Mom's house and, get a girlfriend and start a real life.
> 
> ...


It is pretty sad that if someone does not like your work you take that as reason to start that crap. 

You posted your pictures on a public forum knowing full well people here speak their minds so stop crying when some posts are not saying how great it is.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

BBQ said:


> It is pretty sad that if someone does not like your work you take that as reason to start that crap.
> 
> You posted your pictures on a public forum knowing full well people here speak their minds so stop crying when some posts are not saying how great it is.


I'm not crying. I am just calling out your boy for being an idiot

Read the thread. I didn't start any crap, I simply joined in.

And....by all means, speak your mind.......just be prepared for a response.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I'm not crying. I am just calling out your boy for being an idiot


I'm not his "boy". Just because we agree on that doesn't make me his "boy" any more than JLarson is your boy because he lives near you. And I'm calling you out for being a hack. :thumbsup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Bottom line I don't have to agree with how you work and you don't have to agree with how I work.


 
Then why the "Where did you get the photo of the DIYers work?" comment. If it's simple disagreement on regional practice, why single out my work? I think it's because you think you can get away with being a prick. I'm here to tell you that, you are indeed a prick and you are wrong fo rbeing a prick.






> NM connectors in nice neat rows installed in the rear of the panel, you already blew out a large amount of the block so they would fit.


Get serious. First of all, there were about 30 cables in that panel. Do you honestly think there would be room to cram them into the space provided?And what the hell are you going to do with the slack required? Stuff it back in the wall?? Think about the space in a cell. 

That's stupid idea, a waste of resources and you would not do that.Nobody would do that.

Once again, I hear a lot of hot air.

And, I _blew out_ two holes about the same size as the bushing.



> There is quite a bit of difference between cables into a Carlon box in an individual K.O. and a bundle of cables going into a panel through one big K.O.


List the difference. You claim that lack of connectors = shoody workmanship, even though connectors aren't required. You are always talking out your ass and I'm sick of hearing you talk **** when you know nothing. 




> And I'm calling you out for being a hack


 
To call someone out, you need to present some evidence that what they said or did was wrong, like I did to you. All you are doing is trying to beat your little internet chest and throw down insults.

Call me a hack all day long and I will call you a little PeterD_ouchebag_.

Your opinions mean nothing because, like you said, You are _just a punk wannabe contractor._



> I'm not his "boy". Just because we agree on that doesn't make me his "boy" any more than JLarson is your boy because he lives near you.


Jlarson IS my boy :thumbsup: and you shouldn't be mentioned in the same paragraph as him.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I'm not crying.


You are crying.



> I am just calling out your boy for being an idiot


Now you are being as silly as B4T, no one is my boy.



> Read the thread. I didn't start any crap, I simply joined in.


Pete said he thinks that entering the cables like that is hack. That is his opinion and he is allowed to have one.

You 'join in' by calling him a punk, say he live with his Mom and bring up his relationships. To me that is not joining in that is just being a **** because your thin skin was cut.




> And....by all means, speak your mind.......just be prepared for a response.


I do, but I expect it to be about the work and not where I live and who I am doing.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

WTF AM I READING.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Then why the "Where did you get the photo of the DIYers work?" comment.


Read the actual words I typed. 



BBQ said:


> Where did you get the photo of the DIYers work?





BBQ said:


> No, I am serious, if I opened that up (here) I would a assume it was a DIY did it.


Like I _clearly said_ *here*, in the northeast that type of work would be a sure sign of a DIY or a hack EC.

That does not mean it is the same in AZ.






> If it's simple disagreement on regional practice, why single out my work?


Get real, I hardly 'single you out' I hammer everyone:laughing: and when I post pictures of my own work I fully expect to get hammered back. Some of my work is less than pretty. 




> I think it's because you think you can get away with being a prick. I'm here to tell you that, you are indeed a prick and you are wrong fo rbeing a prick.


Get away with what? I simply said that _in this area_ that would be considered substandard work. No different than the Chicago guys calling my NM work hack.




> Get serious. First of all, there were about 30 cables in that panel. Do you honestly think there would be room to cram them into the space provided?


Yes, I have done it and George Stolz does it. 



> And what the hell are you going to do with the slack required? Stuff it back in the wall??


You are a smart man, I am sure if you had to figure it out you would.



> That's stupid idea, a waste of resources and you would not do that.Nobody would do that.


Actually many people do it because in many areas it is required. 



> Once again, I hear a lot of hot air.


Typical, anything you do not agree with is 'hot air' or 'grasping at straws'. 



> And, I _blew out_ two holes about the same size as the bushing.


OK, I was looking at the original hole, but regardless it can be done. 




> List the difference. You claim that lack of connectors = shoddy


I claim lack of connectors at panels is shoddy, that is my opinion. That does not mean I am right or that you should care about it. But it is how I feel.

A couple of weeks ago I think it was you that posted a picture of a panel change inside a drywall wall and you still used a single entry.

The only reason for that is laziness, you have told us in your own words that you are the 'laziest guy around' now I really do not believe that but I do belive you were being lazy on that indoor panel swap.







> All you are doing is trying to beat your little internet chest and throw down insults.


Take a hard look in the mirror, Pete had an issue with the work, you are going on about Pete. 




> Your opinions mean nothing because, like you said, You are _just a punk wannabe contractor._


You sure are getting revved up over words you say don't matter.





> Jlarson IS my boy :thumbsup: and you shouldn't be mentioned in the same paragraph as him.


That is so gay ........:laughing::laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> That is so gay ........


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

This thread reminds me, I need to reorder some snap in bushings later today.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> This thread reminds me, I need to reorder some snap in bushings later today.



Do you use then under your pitch pockets? :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Do you use then under your pitch pockets? :laughing:


:laughing: actually I have used them for coming through sheet metal under pitch pockets for RTU feeds.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> :laughing: actually I have used them for coming through sheet metal under pitch pockets for RTU feeds.


Perfect use for them, typically our power would come up in MC or FMC but a lot of times the fire alarm and control wiring are just low energy cable that don't like sharp edges.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> You claim that lack of connectors = shoody workmanship, even though connectors aren't required.


Yup, I do. So they aren't required where you live. Big deal. There is still a professional quality way to do and that's to make individual holes and use NM connectors. Even one large 2" SER connector is better than an open plastic bushing or chase nipple. 




> To call someone out, you need to present some evidence that what they said or did was wrong, like I did to you. All you are doing is trying to beat your little internet chest and throw down insults.


You posted pics of what I deem to be substandard work. I didn't just randomly start a thread so I could call you a hack. I gave my opinion on work you did. I'm sorry if it doesn't square with your opinions. 





> Call me a hack all day long and I will call you a little PeterD_ouchebag_


There you go with the personal attacks again. When you have to resort to personal attacks you completely lose all credibility in my mind. 



> Your opinions mean nothing


You get awfully worked up over my opinions which supposedly mean nothing. 



> because, like you said, You are just a punk wannabe contractor.


I was being facetious. 






> Jlarson IS my boy :thumbsup: and you shouldn't be mentioned in the same paragraph as him.


Now you're just getting silly.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Even one large 2" SER connector is better than an open plastic bushing or chase nipple.


I have used large romex connectors on many service changes instead of using up all the 1/2" KO's..

YES.. I know it is not "rated" for (8) NM cables.. but I don't care.. 

It gives the next guy plenty of places to bring in new circuits..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have used large romex connectors on many service changes instead of using up all the 1/2" KO's..
> 
> YES.. I know it is not "rated" for (8) NM cables.. but I don't care..
> 
> It gives the next guy plenty of places to bring in new circuits..


Actually, a while back someone posted the cable listings for Arlington and I think the larger connectors are rated for multiple cables. I'll have to find that list.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> YES.. I know it is not "rated" for (8) NM cables.. *but I don't care.*.


Well as Pete mentioned some of the larger connectors are actually listed for multiple cables. You would care about this if you had real inspectors looking at your work because it would really suck to have to redo it. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Well as Pete mentioned some of the larger connectors are actually listed for multiple cables. You would care about this if you had real inspectors looking at your work because it would really suck to have to redo it. :laughing:


We do have REAL inspectors here on long Island.. but they use common sense before failing an inspection..

The cables are protected the same way as in a smaller connector.. that _is_ the reason for a connector and they won't "slip out" either..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> We do have REAL inspectors here on long Island.. but they use common sense before failing an inspection.


Sorry they are not real inspectors if they only enforce what they feel like, they are just hacks.

But keep in mind, some larger connectors are listed for multiple cables so it may have been a compliant job.


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

The guys who insist in individual NM connectors are the same guys who hammer down the staples way too tight. For some reason they think cables are going to fly if not held down.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Read the actual words I typed.


I copy/pasted the actual words. It's not difficult to understand. It's a personal insult, like when someone calls you a fatass.




> Yes, I have done it and _George Stolz_ does it.


That aint sayin much. :jester:





> And for the record I have never said your method above is unsafe, but you should be closing off the open chase nipple as required by 110.12(A)


Now THIS is how you discuss things. You question specific issues and debate the characteristics. I would reply that, in a block wall, there is no way a fire started in the panel could possibly spread up the chase. I would concede that, in a framed structure, Fire stop should be used. In the end, I would probably start using it because it makes sense.



> Take a hard look in the mirror, Pete had an issue with the work, you are going on about Pete.


Sorry but you and he are simply trying to work the insults around by using semantics.

Why you say my work looks like DIY, it's a direct insult. I can do the same thing all day long (see above fatass comment) but it doesn't legitimize it.



> You posted pics of what I deem to be substandard work


Then discuss the issues instead of demeaning me. Wait...you can't discuss the issues because you have no logical arguements. You thing "I don't like it" is reason enough to throw insults. Wait again...you didn't insult me, just the work. OK, all I can say is that your parents raised an idiot child (not a direct insult to you so have your Mom take it up with me).




> The guys who insist in individual NM connectors are the same guys who hammer down the staples way too tight. For some reason they think cables are going to fly if not held down


If we were discussing the installation method, this is the #1 logical point. What is the purpose of a connector in this case? When the panel is installed exposed in a basement, of course you want the cables secured somehow.

Discussing the issues is why I'm here. I am always open to discussion. Call me a ****ing hack/DIY'r will end the discussion quickly. I've tried many times to smooth things over with Bob but, he is just too full of himself to admit to his short comings. As far as PeterD_oosh,_ he is a lost cause IMO_._ Just another dumbass kid who thinks he know everything.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

egads said:


> The guys who insist in individual NM connectors are the same guys who hammer down the staples way too tight. For some reason they think cables are going to fly if not held down.


Yeah ............. that is it. :no::laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I copy/pasted the actual words. It's not difficult to understand. It's a personal insult, like when someone calls you a fatass.


No it is not about you it is about the work I am looking at.






> That aint sayin much. :jester:


Whatever, you said it can't be done, it can be done.






> Now THIS is how you discuss things. You question specific issues and debate the characteristics. I would reply that, in a block wall, there is no way a fire started in the panel could possibly spread up the chase. I would concede that, in a framed structure, Fire stop should be used. In the end, I would probably start using it because it makes sense.


How about just using the 3" long raceway your local amendment requires, I bet that 3" requirement has to do with keeping any sparks in the enclosure ....... but of course that is a guess. 





> Sorry but you and he are simply trying to work the insults around by using semantics.


No, it is not semantics.

If the Chicago guys look at my NM work and say 'That is hack work, it should be pipe' that is a comment about the work, the methods and not about the me. 



> Why you say my work looks like DIY, it's a direct insult. I can do the same thing all day long (see above fatass comment) but it doesn't legitimize it.


Nope it is not a direct insult about you or too you.

If I said you are an idiot (and I don't think that at all) that would be a personal insult. When I say the work you do in AZ would be considered DIY here that is just a fact, not an insult about you.

Separate yourself from the work.




> Then discuss the issues instead of demeaning me. Wait...you can't discuss the issues because you have no logical arguements. You thing "I don't like it" is reason enough to throw insults. Wait again...you didn't insult me, just the work. OK, all I can say is that your parents raised an idiot child (not a direct insult to you so have your Mom take it up with me).


There nothing to discuss, me trying to explain why I think that work looks DIY would be like your trying to describe the reasons you like a certain color. It is just my personally opinion, I don't have to justify it or explain it to anyone ........... and you don't have to care at all about the opinion of some guy in MA. It does not effect you.







> If we were discussing the installation method, this is the #1 logical point. What is the purpose of a connector in this case? When the panel is installed exposed in a basement, of course you want the cables secured somehow.
> 
> Discussing the issues is why I'm here. I am always open to discussion. Call me a ****ing hack/DIY'r will end the discussion quickly. I've tried many times to smooth things over with Bob but, he is just too full of himself to admit to his short comings. As far as PeterD_oosh,_ he is a lost cause IMO_._ Just another dumbass kid who thinks he know everything.


You should probably stop posting pictures of your work if you can't handle the bad comments with the good.

You have no problem putting people down for using SE but you get all f***ed up when people give you a hard time about some connectors.

You keep saying how full of myself I am ........ well I post pictures of my ugly work and I don't start crying like a little girl when busted on it. I can laugh at myself. You may want to learn to laugh at yourself. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Sorry but you and he are simply trying to work the insults around by using semantics.
> 
> Why you say my work looks like DIY, it's a direct insult. I can do the same thing all day long (see above fatass comment) but it doesn't legitimize it.


If you take it as a direct insult, then all I can say is too bad. Don't post pics of your work on a public forum where anyone is free to give their opinion, positive or negative. 

You've rambled on and on with your nonsense about SE cable almost every time the subject comes up, but in the end it makes no difference to me what your opinion is of it. I'm going to keep on using it just like you're going to keep running all your cables through a snap in bushing.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> No it is not about you it is about the work I am looking at.


And it's only your waist size that I'm talking about :laughing:





> Whatever, you said it can't be done, it can be done.


Reference please?:whistling2:




> How about just using the 3" long raceway your local amendment requires, I bet that 3" requirement has to do with keeping any sparks in the enclosure


 
The 3" requirement was obviously written by an idiot behind a desk who has never seen even one of the one million installations locally that use snap ins or chase nipples 99% of the time. He also didn't conside simple 2x4 framing.:jester:




> Separate yourself from the work.


 
Dude, it's what I do for a living. a full 1/3 of my life is devoted to it.



> You should probably stop posting pictures of your work if you can't handle the bad comments with the good.


 
Heh heh, that aint gonna happen. Handling the comments doesn't mean rolling over. Just because I call you out on the comments doesn't mean I can't handle them.



> You have no problem putting people down for using SE but you get all f***ed up when people give you a hard time about some connectors


.

So, this all goes back to my opinion of SE services? I think the SE installs are dangerous. I don't call you hacks or DIY'r for simply doing what is accepted in your area. I assume I'd do the same kind of work if I was there.

If the discussion is about SE installs, I can cite a couple valid points and all the proponents can say is, "there are lots of installations done this way without issue"



> You've rambled on and on with your nonsense about SE cable almost every time the subject comes up, but in the end it makes no difference to me what your opinion is of it. I'm going to keep on using it just like you're going to keep running all your cables through a snap in bushing


. 

So....this IS about SE cable. :jester:

It's been an entertaining lunch but I have to go back to work. I'll take some more pics.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I think the SE installs are dangerous. I don't call you hacks or DIY'r for simply doing what is accepted in your area.


Well, using your logic, then us electricians who install SE are providing a dangerous installation. It's our fault because SE cable doesn't install itself, right? After all, I can still use PVC, RMC or EMT for a service here instead of SE cable. 

You can't have it both ways. You can't be critical of someone's method, then cry when someone criticizes yours.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> And it's only your waist size that I'm talking about :laughing:


You sure seem to spend a lot of time thinking about my body. 




220/221 said:


> Reference please?:whistling2:


Here is what you said.



> Get serious. First of all, there were about 30 cables in that panel. Do you honestly think there would be room to cram them into the space provided?


I gave you two examples of people that seem to fit them in. 




> The 3" requirement was obviously written by an idiot behind a desk who has never seen even one of the one million installations locally that use snap ins or chase nipples 99% of the time. He also didn't conside simple 2x4 framing.:jester:


So you just admitted that your method is really not allowed by local amendment so we are right back to you ignoring rules that you do not agree with. That is fine, there are some rules I may ignore or bend but you will never see me trying to justify my actions. I will admit it, (and I have said this before) when I cheat it is hack, it is unprofessional and it is just being lazy.




> Dude, it's what I do for a living. a full 1/3 of my life is devoted to it.


Likely even more of your time but it still is not you, it is the work. 






> Heh heh, that aint gonna happen. Handling the comments doesn't mean rolling over. Just because I call you out on the comments doesn't mean I can't handle them.


OK, I guess we will continue as before, I will feel free to point out things I do not like about certain electrical work and you will continue to call me a big headed fat ass idiot. I would have expected a little more maturity in a 60 year old but whatever. 

.



> So, this all goes back to my opinion of SE services?


No, it was just an easy example, I am sure I can find another.



> I think the SE installs are dangerous. I don't call you hacks or DIY'r for simply doing what is accepted in your area. I assume I'd do the same kind of work if I was there.


No I can't remember you saying either of those things regarding SE, but don't pretend you don't fill your anti SE rants full of digs against those that use it.




> If the discussion is about SE installs, I can cite a couple valid points and all the proponents can say is, "there are lots of installations done this way without issue"


Give it a rest, your 'valid points' are simply your opinion, which you are of course entitled to have and post but they are not facts.

You consistently bitch how the code lacks commonsense, but you want to prohibit SE without any facts ......... that lacks commonsense.

. 



> So....this IS about SE cable.


No, it is about connectors or raceways that are required. 



> It's been an entertaining lunch but I have to go back to work. I'll take some more pics.


Great, I will look forward to your next outburst. :laughing:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

heck with the nipple thing look at the bonding issue.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> You can't have it both ways. You can't be critical of someone's method, then cry when someone criticizes yours.


Exactly.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> OK, I guess we will continue as before, I will feel free to point out things I do not like about certain electrical work and you will continue to call me a big headed fat ass idiot. I would have expected a little more maturity in a 60 year old but whatever.


So, the bottom line for me is, Bob is a "big headed fat ass idiot."

I'm a "doosh, dumbass kid who thinks he knows everything, wannabe contractor with no life and no girlfriend." 

And here I was thinking this was about romex connectors. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> So, the bottom line for me is, Bob is a "big headed fat ass idiot."


Don't forget ... cabbage smelling ex-carny.



> I'm a "doosh, dumbass kid who thinks he knows everything, wannabe contractor with no life and no girlfriend."


How does that pay? 



> And here I was thinking this was about romex connectors. :laughing:


Hell no, this is about how I 'single out' 220/221, apparently I am a nice guy to all others. :thumbup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> I always use seperate grounding bars for my grounding conductors. I don't put them together with the neutrals. That is what the bonding screw is for, IMO.


The bonding screw is to satisfy 250.4 (B)(4)



> (4) *Path for Fault Current.* Electrical equipment, wiring,
> and other electrically conductive material likely to become
> energized shall be installed in a manner that creates a lowimpedance
> circuit from any point on the wiring system to
> ...


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> ...I am a nice guy to all others.


:blink::001_huh::blink::001_huh::no: :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> :blink::001_huh::blink::001_huh::no: :laughing:


No one was more surprised than I. :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Here is what you said.

Quote:
Get serious. First of all, there were about 30 cables in that panel. Do you honestly think there would be room to cram them into the space provided? 







I'm still not seeing it. Where is "it can't be done". I asked a simple question.




> So, the bottom line for me is, Bob is a "big headed fat ass idiot."
> 
> I'm a "doosh, dumbass kid who thinks he knows everything, wannabe contractor with no life and no girlfriend


I'm glad I was able to make my point.



> Hell no, this is about how I 'single out' 220/221, apparently I am a nice guy to all others


 
Nope. This is all about tweedle D and tweedle Dumb calling me a hack and a DIY'r. You can *try* to justify it until the end of time but it's ****ing uncalled for. Until you understand how to treat people, you will get treated with the same disrespect.




> So you just admitted that your method is really not allowed by local amendment so we are right back to you ignoring rules that you do not agree with. That is fine, there are some rules I may ignore or bend but *you will never see me trying to justify my actions*


A. It's not MY method. I started in th trade in the early 70's and it had been common for at least a decade.

B. You have being trying to justify your actions here for a couple pages. You say the quality of my work is "DIY" and try to tell me it's not personal. Bull****. That's like me telling you that I actually admire and respect fat pompous pricks.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

So what about that white silicone caulk.. :whistling2::laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> heck with the nipple thing look at the bonding issue.


 
Que?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Here is what you said.
> 
> Quote:
> Get serious. First of all, there were about 30 cables in that panel. Do you honestly think there would be room to cram them into the space provided?
> ...


Who is grasping at straws now? :laughing:

OK, You are right, you did not actually say it 'could not be done'.

So what exactly did you mean? 






> Nope. This is all about tweedle D and tweedle Dumb calling me a hack and a DIY'r. You can *try* to justify it until the end of time but it's ****ing uncalled for. Until you understand how to treat people, you will get treated with the same disrespect.



It is not the same, if you believe negative comments about the work you post is a direct insult to you ......... well that is your own problem. 






> A. It's not MY method. I started in th trade in the early 70's and it had been common for at least a decade.


Oh, so now you are a robot and have no input on how you work. :laughing:




> B. You have being trying to justify your actions here for a couple pages. You say the quality of my work is "DIY" and try to tell me it's not personal. Bull****. That's like me telling you that I actually admire and respect fat pompous pricks.


I don't take it personal when you question the quality of using SE because it is not personal it is about the work. 

If you feel it is necessary to make personal attacks against me by calling me fat pompous prick that is up to you, I will not follow suit.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

220.. so just round out the debate.. you must post these pics because you love the attention..

Maybe what Speedy posted about me fits you also.. :jester:

"_I have a very bold statement to make. Say what you want, but I TRULY feel B4T secretly LOVES the attention he gets from threads like this. Why else would someone post pics like this?? 
He loves the attention. He loves the arguments. He loves the exposure. 
__________________
_


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> OK, You are right, you did not actually say it 'could not be done'.
> 
> So what exactly did you mean


I meant, _there were about 30 cables in that panel. Do you honestly think there would be room to cram them into the space provided?_

Seemed clear to me.




> if you believe negative comments about the work you post is a direct insult to you ......... well that is your own problem.


if you believe negative comments about your appearance and ignorance is a direct insult to you ......... well that is your own problem. 


Both statements are ****ing stupid. ^



> Oh, so now you are a robot and have no input on how you work


 

I'm not stupid enough to make my job *more dificult* when there is *zero benefit.* Who would do that? George Stoltz?





> I don't take it personal when you question the quality of using SE because it is not personal it is about the work.


Maybe because I don't call you a hack and a DIY'r???




> If you feel it is necessary to make personal attacks against me by calling me fat pompous prick that is up to you, I will not follow suit.


 
If I could think of terms that described you better, I would use them. Thanks for your blessing though.:thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I meant, _there were about 30 cables in that panel. Do you honestly think there would be room to cram them into the space provided?_
> 
> Seemed clear to me.


Yes, I do honestly think that, room for even more. 






> if you believe negative comments about your appearance and ignorance is a direct insult to you ......... well that is your own problem.
> 
> 
> Both statements are ****ing stupid. ^


OK :laughing:





> I'm not stupid enough to make my job *more dificult* when there is *zero benefit.* Who would do that? George Stoltz?


Benefit is in the eye of the beholder and I have never asked you to change anything you do, you would not if I did anyway.





> Maybe because I don't call you a hack and a DIY'r???



I said, seeing that work in this area would lead me to believe it was DIY or a hack EC and that is the truth for my area. 



> If I could think of terms that described you better, I would use them. Thanks for your blessing though.:thumbsup:


I am sure you will do fine, but I hope you are not misguided enough to think care what you call me. I left Junior high a long time ago. :thumbsup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

B4T said:


> 220.. so just round out the debate.. you must post these pics because you love the attention..


 
I post the pics to share and add to the board discussion. I like to learn about they way things are done around the country and I assume other people do too. I enjoy debate and different opinions when they are presented in a logical fashion. I do however take offense at being called a hack, no matter how veiled the language.

At the end of the week I will post another clear violation when I show pics of a new pool circuit (pump and light) without a ground rod(s) installed. Fundamentalists will call me a hack for doing something that is clearly done every day, in every location.



> I said, _seeing that work in this area would lead me to believe it was DIY or a hack EC_ and that is the truth for my area.


You said, "Where did you get the photo of the DIYers work?

" then you try to justfy it with disclaimers.

If you said, "that wouldn't pass around here" I'd simply say "so I've been told".



> I left Junior high a long time ago


Did you always want to be a bully in Junior High? Does your internet prowess somehow fulfill deep seated needs from your past? Hmmmmm. could explain a lot of things.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> you must post these pics because you love the attention..


It is the same reason we all start threads or post pictures. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It is the same reason we all start threads or post pictures. :thumbsup:


So why is it I get labeled a "thread whore".. :laughing:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

220/221 said:


> Que?


 Why do you have a green wire and a white wire comming from the meter and landing on the neutral buss?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

B4T said:


> So why is it I get labeled a "thread whore".. :laughing:


Posts: 14,108 <-----------:laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Why do you have a green wire and a white wire comming from the meter and landing on the neutral buss?


 
This is the *service* so neutral bus/ground bus, same thing.

Typically the neutral would be too large to land on the required bond bushing (on the nipple) so a separate bond wire is used.

The permanent installation of the new meter will be done the same way, off to the left, with larger service conductors.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> So why is it I get labeled a "thread whore"..


Ahhh 



Threads started by me since 11/10 = 82

Threads started by 220/221 since 9/07 = 105

Threads started by B4T since 2/09 = 327:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Ahhh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I have lots of things to chat about.. that make me a slut..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> So I have lots of things to chat about.. that make me a slut..


You got nothing on 480sparky. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You got nothing on 480sparky. :no:


Ken is a "special' person.. :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Ahhh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have way too much time on your hands. :laughing:


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

doubleoh7 said:


> I always use seperate grounding bars for my grounding conductors. I don't put them together with the neutrals. That is what the bonding screw is for, IMO.



agree 100% while most guys i work with dont agree... and while i stuff as many grounds under big lugs as will fit i put every neutral seperate... many ask why ? becuase god forbid i gotta take one neutral out i dont gotta shut off the other circuit..and IMO thats the main reason for this rule... busbar permiting of course..

the only problom to me with the whole nippple isssue is how are the wires secured from pulling out of the panel? a pic of the inside would be nice...

and i slam staples tight so the romex looks nice and neat...


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## jarhead0531 (Jun 1, 2010)

pistol pete said:


> agree 100% while most guys i work with dont agree... and while i stuff as many grounds under big lugs as will fit i put every neutral seperate... many ask why ? becuase god forbid i gotta take one neutral out i dont gotta shut off the other circuit..and IMO thats the main reason for this rule... busbar permiting of course..
> 
> the only problom to me with the whole nippple isssue is how are the wires secured from pulling out of the panel? a pic of the inside would be nice...
> 
> and i slam staples tight so the romex looks nice and neat...


Why is easy...

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each
grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard
in an individual terminal that is not also used for another
conductor.

Change was added in the 2002 code. I've personally seen why the change was made a couple times. Old time method of each circuit neutral(grounded)/ground(grounding aka bare copper) under the same terminal can cause issues years later. Terminal screw made much better contact with the ground than neutral, and eventually the neutral burnt up.

I have only seen this on hight use circuits, such as air handlers, and furnace pumps. Just like backstabbing causes issues where space heaters or window ac units are used.


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

jarhead0531 said:


> Why is easy...
> 
> {408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each
> grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard
> ...


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

jarhead0531 said:


> Why is easy...
> 
> 408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each
> grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard
> ...


so therefore grounds should no longer be double luged? not like im going to do any thing different just try to make sure i know what rules im breaking


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## jarhead0531 (Jun 1, 2010)

pistol pete said:


> so therefore grounds should no longer be double luged? not like im going to do any thing different just try to make sure i know what rules im breaking


Grounded, not grounding. Your ground wires still have to follow what the panel markings say. Normal 2-3 of the same size, but that varies by panel. For what it is worth all current panels say only one neutral per terminal to the best of my knowledge.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

pistol pete said:


> so therefore grounds should no longer be double luged? not like im going to do any thing different _*just try to make sure i know what rules im breaking*_


So says another alleged "professional" electrician....:no:

Didn't know the difference between grounded and grounding (or doesn't know how to read carefully) and admits on a professional forum that he's not gonna change any bad habits and wants to continue to break rules..as long as he knows which ones he's breaking. :whistling2::laughing:

Thanks man, I needed a good laugh this morning. :thumbup:


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