# Changing a ballast hot



## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

So i go to a fairly large facility yesterday to install outlets for a few flat screen monitors. The FM and I walk in the room to get the proper layout. I notice a recessed 2x4 that is dead, but was more concerned about my work so I kind of forgot about it. I started ripping open the drywall when this "maintenance technician walks in with a couple of lamps and a 4' ladder. He asks me if he will be in my way while his fixes the fixture. I tell him to knock himself out. He opens up the lens and without any tools, says it looks like a bad ballast. He leaves. I go over to take a peak. Ballast "looks" fine. I grab my tic-tracer to test secondary of the ballast and sure enough, nothing. I'm wondering HTF he guessed bad ballast with just his eyes, and no tools.

This guy shows back up about 15 minutes later with a new ballast. He opens up the circuit and removes the ballast, I look over and he's got wire nuts hanging everywhere. He then proceeds to install the ballast and wire it up, backwards. He was wiring it up primary first. Doing it hot, and not installing one of those little orange disconnects. 

I just shook my head. The lights were controlled by AB switching. Dipsh!t could have just turned a toggle off and worked safe.


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

Maybe he took off a wirenut and checked it with his fingers.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> So i go to a fairly large facility yesterday to install outlets for a few flat screen monitors. The FM and I walk in the room to get the proper layout. I notice a recessed 2x4 that is dead, but was more concerned about my work so I kind of forgot about it. I started ripping open the drywall when this "maintenance technician walks in with a couple of lamps and a 4' ladder. He asks me if he will be in my way while his fixes the fixture. I tell him to knock himself out. He opens up the lens and without any tools, says it looks like a bad ballast. He leaves. I go over to take a peak. Ballast "looks" fine. I grab my tic-tracer to test secondary of the ballast and sure enough, nothing. I'm wondering HTF he guessed bad ballast with just his eyes, and no tools.
> 
> This guy shows back up about 15 minutes later with a new ballast. He opens up the circuit and removes the ballast, I look over and he's got wire nuts hanging everywhere. He then proceeds to install the ballast and wire it up, backwards. He was wiring it up primary first. Doing it hot, and not installing one of those little orange disconnects.
> 
> I just shook my head. The lights were controlled by AB switching. Dipsh!t could have just turned a toggle off and worked safe.


You can't fix stupid, but stupid can fix a bad ballast.:laughing:


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## sparky.jp (May 1, 2009)

I have seen this done myself, in a large office area where I used to work (over 100 people in the entire wing). The electrician R&R'd ballasts while energized, as it was during the day while people were working and he didn't want to turn off the lights (probably one or two circuits for the whole wing). They were most likely 277V ballasts as well since they were in a commercial office building.

Personally, I don't like the thought of working 277V hot but that's just me . . .


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I've changed many ballasts hot but never backwards.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

mattsilkwood said:


> I've changed many ballasts hot but never backwards.


Same here. Sounds fun though!


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I once saw a guy change a ballast hot in an office, during working hours. Trouble was, it was a 277V ballast and he replaced it with a 120V ballast. The smoke all leaked out in about 60 seconds.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

amptech said:


> I once saw a guy change a ballast hot in an office, during working hours. Trouble was, it was a 277V ballast and he replaced it with a 120V ballast. The smoke all leaked out in about 60 seconds.



Well, then, it looks like we need to outlaw 277 volt systems. :laughing:


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

How about just outlawing unqualified people from doing electrical work for hire?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

amptech said:


> How about just outlawing unqualified people from doing electrical work for hire?



Naaa. We'll just outlaw electricity. (I hear EEs do it all the time. :laughing


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

some of the older 8' strips have sockets that when you remove the lamps it breaks power to the ballast -- althought i have not seen these in awhile


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## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

ampman said:


> some of the older 8' strips have sockets that when you remove the lamps it breaks power to the ballast -- althought i have not seen these in awhile


Might be why he wired it up wrong?


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## superdeez (Sep 13, 2010)

The OP listed it as a 2x4 troffer, not an 8' strip. Even if it is one of the old 8' strips the new ballasts almost always wire up differently, the red goes on the tombstones where hot&neutral used to be. If I do work hot, I'm not going to be working on some metal ladder and use kleins with plierdip handles either.
The hot is the first thing to come undone, and the last to be twisted back together!


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

That's like the guys that connect the 120 hot first. "If I get shocked,I'll only get shocked 1/2 as much."


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I cut the hot and put a wago type disconnect on it right away. Dade County requires a fuse, Broward County doesn't.


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## superdeez (Sep 13, 2010)

As far as the quick disconnects go, remember that this maintenance tech works for the facility. When I was younger and (maybe only slightly) dumber than I am now, I almost learned how to do PM work when I worked for a resturant franchise. My boss kept having me fix things around the building because he didn't want to wait or pay the franchise maintenence guy $25/hour to do his job. 

I remember the day I _bought_ several batteries and 194 lamps for the emergency lights and used the crimp fitting kit out of my father's garage to wire them all back up. I bought light bulbs, ballasts, etc. Some days I figured I lost money.

My point in all this is that the guy deserved to be shown the proper order in which to wire a ballast if he wires it hot. But should he be chastised for not providing quick disconnects for the facility?

Remember he isn't an EC. Just something for your collective consideration.


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## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

*Potty training*

My daughter is doing potty training now.... (Well has been) and I was looking for advice from the all seeing all knowing internet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIqP8vA6l50&feature=related


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

e57 said:


> My daughter is doing potty training now.... (Well has been) and I was looking for advice from the all seeing all knowing internet
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIqP8vA6l50&feature=related













~Matt


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> ~Matt


I knew that one very well that is sign langnunge for the deaf to say WTF .

Merci.
Marc

P.S. almost all my family are deaf so I knew it quick.


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## superdeez (Sep 13, 2010)

Here, maybe this video can be of some assistance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgBNKJUCYUg

How do you get the video to embed?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> I i go to a fairly large facility yesterday to install outlets for a few flat screen monitors. The FM and I walk in the room to get the proper layout. I notice a recessed 2x4 that is dead, but was more concerned about my work so I kind of forgot about it.



Test




John Valdes said:


> I I started ripping open the drywall when this "maintenance technician walks in with a couple of lamps and a 4' ladder. He asks me if he will be in my way while his fixes the fixture. I tell him to knock himself out. He opens up the lens and without any tools, says it looks like a bad ballast. He leaves.



Test




John Valdes said:


> I I go over to take a peak. Ballast "looks" fine. I grab my tic-tracer to test secondary of the ballast and sure enough, nothing. I'm wondering HTF he guessed bad ballast with just his eyes, and no tools.
> 
> This guy shows back up about 15 minutes later with a new ballast. He opens up the circuit and removes the ballast, I look over and he's got wire nuts hanging everywhere. He then proceeds to install the ballast and wire it up, backwards. He was wiring it up primary first. Doing it hot, and not installing one of those little orange disconnects.
> 
> I just shook my head. The lights were controlled by AB switching. Dipsh!t could have just turned a toggle off and worked safe.



Test



Hey Jlarson.......there is a new quoter in town......


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## wrhammer (Sep 26, 2010)

We had an electrician at one of the companies I worked for checking a fixture on a 277 volt system. There was one strand that was hanging out of the wirenut on the thhn. He came into contact and he was touching the grid ceiling. He was working alone and one of the others went to check on him and found him dead on the floor. Needless to say there was a "no hot" policy after that.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

wrhammer said:


> We had an electrician at one of the companies I worked for checking a fixture on a 277 volt system. There was one strand that was hanging out of the wirenut on the thhn. He came into contact and he was touching the grid ceiling. He was working alone and one of the others went to check on him and found him dead on the floor. Needless to say there was a "no hot" policy after that.


Isnt it funny that it takes a death for a company to put these policies into affect?

~Matt


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## sparky.jp (May 1, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Isnt it funny that it takes a death for a company to put these policies into affect?
> ~Matt


 I wouldn't call it funny, more sad. Same thing where I work. A few people got either dead or seriously injured last year, and now we just are starting to do lockout-tagout (which has been required by OSHA now for, how many years?). And no hot work anymore either. But we have critical communications and navigation equipment which can't easily be shut down, and typically will work the 120/208 panels hot (no big deal to add a breaker, use an insulated nut driver to bolt breaker to the bus, wearing the appropriate PPE and so on). 

So yeah, we will be doing hot work whether they like it or not, because the implications of actually shutting down and then restarting the critical equipment are so significant (have to have a lot of electronic technicians on standby on the midnight shift just in case something doesn't power up right) that they will choke on that too.

So the pendulum swings from one extreme to another. Yes, you can be so safe that you can't get anything done, and that's where we are headed now.

Bottom line - your brain is your #1 piece of safety gear - use it! All of the policies and written procedures in the world won't fix stupid.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Hey Jlarson.......there is a new quoter in town......


:no: You got part right but but got the wrong person's user name on the quote. :laughing::laughing:


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