# Help with baseboard heating



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Sounds like you only broke the power to one and fed the other hot all the time. I'm thinking it's in your jb....


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Mideon said:


> Hey guys. I just recently changed my friend's heating arrangement around. He originally had 2 heaters each with their own thermostats. I changed it so both were controlled by a single thermostat, and hooked them up in parallel. Here's what I did.
> 
> Power came from the panel, into the thermostat. It then continued into a JB where I spliced the power to the 2 heater lines. Now I have one heater that works perfectly, and one that won't turn off.
> 
> ...


Can you draw it out?
a schematic of what was there and what you did? Normally black carries the circuit through, red is the switched leg that starts at the point of switch and ends at the load. And what are you doing burying j boxes with funky wiring splices?


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## Mideon (Apr 24, 2010)

I will try to draw it out in paint. Brb.


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## Mideon (Apr 24, 2010)

http://s1046.photobucket.com/albums/b466/MideonNViscera/?action=view&current=heat.jpg

There's my horrible looking diagram, but I know you'll be able to tell what I mean by it. Reds together in JB, blacks together in JB.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Mideon said:


> I will try to draw it out in paint. Brb.


 Better let a professional fix it.....before you burn the place down.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Mideon said:


> http://s1046.photobucket.com/albums/b466/MideonNViscera/?action=view&current=heat.jpg
> 
> There's my horrible looking diagram, but I know you'll be able to tell what I mean by it. Reds together in JB, blacks together in JB.


Sloppy alright but looks correct. Are you sure that schematic is correct? You might want consult a seasoned electrician to ring things out. I there a white wire anywhere in sight?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The t'stat is now simply a controller, and cannot be a disconnect.

Hopefully, there's no "OFF" on the stat so the next poor slob comes along thinking it turns them off so he can work on them safely.


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## sparkypig (Oct 1, 2010)

single pole double throw thermostats for 230v baseboard heaters. like a motor, you should never feed with split power. one hot and one not. appropriate device needed, and check your amperage rating for the heater/control.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

I know they make a thermostat for both 110v and 220v purposes but i prefer to only use a 220v thermostat that breaks both legs "lines". I believe he used a 110v thermostat to break the one leg so his heater is running off 110v, i am curious of why only one is staying on and not both though since he has them wired in parallel and i wonder what he did with the neutral? He might better have someone check his wiring, he is completing that circuit somehow and somewhere.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

woodchuck2 said:


> I know they make a thermostat for both 110v and 220v purposes but i prefer to only use a 220v thermostat that breaks both legs "lines". I believe he used a 110v thermostat to break the one leg so his heater is running off 110v, i am curious of why only one is staying on and not both though since he has them wired in parallel and i wonder what he did with the neutral? He might better have someone check his wiring, he is completing that circuit somehow and somewhere.


 If you use a single pole T stat, for a 240 volt heater, it cuts one side of the line, but the heater does not then run on 120 volt. It does not run at all, because there is no return. Of course there is still power, (120 volts to ground) at the heater.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

oldtimer said:


> If you use a single pole T stat, for a 240 volt heater, it cuts one side of the line, but the heater does not then run on 120 volt. It does not run at all, because there is no return. Of course there is still power, (120 volts to ground) at the heater.


Exactly, this is why i was wondering what he did with the neutral and if it was mis-wired.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Mideon said:


> I want it to be anything besides the JB, cause it's buried under drywall now haha


Umm... am I the only one that had a red flag go up after this part?

Don't bury your J-boxes dude. For this reason.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

woodchuck2 said:


> Exactly, this is why i was wondering what he did with the neutral and if it was mis-wired.


There is no neutral in a 240V heater.

Here is my understanding of what he did-- He fed the thermostat and came out with a 2 wire cable to a JB where he connected the 2 heaters. If this is it then there is no way one heater can be on without the other. Obviously that is not what you did. 

Did the feed from the panel go directly to the thermostat? If so then the JB is a straight hookup-- reds together and the blacks together--- so how can one heater stay on.

I think perhaps the thermostat is not turning off completely and is leaking enough voltage to keep one heater warm. Try changing the T-stat and see what happens.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

If only one of the phases was turned off by the thermostat, and the other 120v line is still live, is it possible the disconnected line is completing the circuit by somehow grounding itself? It would be producing only half the heat though.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

Vintage Sounds said:


> If only one of the phases was turned off by the thermostat, and the other 120v line is still live, is it possible the disconnected line is completing the circuit by somehow grounding itself? It would be producing only half the heat though.


This is what i was getting at above, that is why i was questioning the neutral? I am aware there is no neutral in a 220 heater but all the wire i have ever purchased had a "white" neutral wire. I know color for neutral does not matter either but that is the color standard used by most and the OP diagram did not show any other wires including his ground. So obviously if the thermostat is disconnecting one line than how is the other line making its circuit and even if the thermostat were leaking to make a circuit then how is it only one heater is working? Either the heater that is working has an element grounding out or someone has connected a neutral to it so it has a completed circuit.


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## Lz_69 (Nov 1, 2007)

woodchuck2 said:


> This is what i was getting at above, that is why i was questioning the neutral? I am aware there is no neutral in a 220 heater but all the wire i have ever purchased had a "white" neutral wire. I know color for neutral does not matter either but that is the color standard used by most and the OP diagram did not show any other wires including his ground. So obviously if the thermostat is disconnecting one line than how is the other line making its circuit and even if the thermostat were leaking to make a circuit then how is it only one heater is working? Either the heater that is working has an element grounding out or someone has connected a neutral to it so it has a completed circuit.


My guess would be the heater that won't shut off has a wire shorted to ground downstream of the element on the always hot line.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

I would call a certified Electrical Contractor to come and un bury that JB... your playing with fire and your career


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## Wiredude (May 14, 2010)

I'm still tryin to find 12/2 with a black and a red in it....
:blink:


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## Lz_69 (Nov 1, 2007)

Wiredude said:


> I'm still tryin to find 12/2 with a black and a red in it....
> :blink:


They have some code rules/amendments in Canada for certain circuits to use different colored wire so the inspectors can follow them easier. 

For example AFCI's have a blue jacket, heating has a red jacket with red and black conductors, and so on.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Wiredude said:


> I'm still tryin to find 12/2 with a black and a red in it....
> :blink:


 

ask a real supply shop, it's not hard to get


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Obviously that is not what you did.


Exactly.

So, what did you do?


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## wayne g (Nov 28, 2010)

It does appear the 1 heater the wiring inside is wrong. Or your feed has it to stay on, not through the THERM


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wayne g said:


> It does appear the 1 heater the wiring inside is wrong. Or your feed has it to stay on, not through the THERM


Why do you keep dragging up dead threads? :blink:

Today is 12/7/2010, the opening poster has not been on the forum since 9/26 and the last post in this thread was 10/4.


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