# Best COPALUM crimper for crimping in limited space?



## Jlarson

Grimlock said:


> Hey guys, anyone know of a decent COPALUM crimper that will work on short wires, maybe designed to fit in the box?


You mean for those stupid Tyco crimps?


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## Grimlock

Jlarson said:


> You mean for those stupid Tyco crimps?


Yea, the very same :thumbsup:


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## Jlarson

Grimlock said:


> Yea, the very same :thumbsup:


You actually use those, why not use the purple Ideals or the king Innovation AlumiConn connectors? No need for a crimper that way.


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## Grimlock

Jlarson said:


> You actually use those, why not use the *purple Ideals* or the king Innovation AlumiConn connectors? No need for a crimper that way.


 









You mean these ones?


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## 480sparky

Grimlock said:


> You mean these ones?


And the reason those failed is.................????:001_huh:


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## Jlarson

Grimlock said:


> You mean these ones?


Yep, never seen a _properly_ installed one fail. Actually we used regular ideals filled with pentox for years with no problems either :whistling2:


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## B4T

Jlarson said:


> Yep, never seen a _properly_ installed one fail. Actually we used regular ideals filled with pentox for years with no problems either :whistling2:


LOTS of houses here on Long Island used that method for years till some smartass lawyer read the instructions on the wire nut box.

Must of been that slug from down south who liked them $300.00 hair cuts and screwing around on his wife who had breast cancer.

He was almost president..


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## Jlarson

Grimlock said:


>


That kinda looks like 3 #12 Al and a #14 Cu to me. I believe that is not a listed combo according to the listed combination sheets. So an improper install it is. Also the picture was taken by a company that specifically sell upgrades with the Tyco connectors, the higher priced Tyco connectors that is.


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## Grimlock

My customer specifically requested COPALUM. The consumer product safety commission has a lot of bad things to say about the purple wire nuts. Anyone who looks into aluminum wire “repair” methods will run into the CPSC’s documentation, that’s why they want the COPALUM. They have already passed on one contractor who tried to pressure them into the wirenut solution. SOOooo I have to offer a COPALUM “solution” or they are going to pass on me too. I’m looking to get a decent set of compatible crimpers, any suggestions?

BTW after 14 years working specifically in electrical service I have seen both wire nuts with snot shot in them and the oversized purple “Barney” nuts fail (Installed by others). And yes, I have used the purples myself, I even have some in my van as I type. I posted the image as a joke.


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## Jlarson

Grimlock said:


> I’m looking to get a decent set of compatible crimpers, any suggestions?


Nope, I looked on line and in the catalog of a supplier that sells tyco, looks like the only option is that battery powered pistol grip contraption.


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## MarkyMark

Grimlock said:


> My customer specifically requested COPALUM. The consumer product safety commission has a lot of bad things to say about the purple wire nuts. Anyone who looks into aluminum wire “repair” methods will run into the CPSC’s documentation, that’s why they want the COPALUM. They have already passed on one contractor who tried to pressure them into the wirenut solution. SOOooo I have to offer a COPALUM “solution” or they are going to pass on me too. I’m looking to get a decent set of compatible crimpers, any suggestions?
> 
> BTW after 14 years working specifically in electrical service I have seen both wire nuts with snot shot in them and the oversized purple “Barney” nuts fail (Installed by others). And yes, I have used the purples myself, I even have some in my van as I type. I posted the image as a joke.


Try to sell your customer on the AlumiConn connectors. The same engineer who wrote the original CPSC report recommending Copalum has now added AlumiConn connectors to the list of recommended repair options. The connectors are only slightly more expensive than the "Barney" wire nuts, and WAY cheaper than the Copalum crimps.

http://www.alcopstore.com/resources/ReducingFire.pdf


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## Grimlock

MarkyMark said:


> Try to sell your customer on the AlumiConn connectors. The same engineer who wrote the original CPSC report recommending Copalum has now added AlumiConn connectors to the list of recommended repair options. The connectors are only slightly more expensive than the "Barney" wire nuts, and WAY cheaper than the Copalum crimps.
> 
> http://www.alcopstore.com/resources/ReducingFire.pdf


 
Thanks, I mentioned those to my customer yesterday when we walked the property, I think they might be willing to go with those, I'm pricing options today, I'll see what the cost difference is


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## Grimlock

An excerpt from the report posted by MarkyMark:

Anyone doing ALU "repair" should read the whole thing if you haven't already.


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## John Valdes

Black4Truck said:


> Must of been that slug from down south who liked them $300.00 hair cuts and screwing around on his wife who had breast cancer.


No wonder they suspended you. :whistling2:


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## MDShunk

Near as I know, that battery operated monstrosity is the only way they lease the copalum system now. They used to have the regular copalum crimper that was built their regular military-style crimp frame, but I don't even see a catalog number for it anymore.


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## Grimlock

MDShunk said:


> Near as I know, that battery operated monstrosity is the only way *they lease the copalum system now.* They used to have the regular copalum crimper that was built their regular military-style crimp frame, but I don't even see a catalog number for it anymore.


That is a bad business decision, I was quoted the following yesterday:

*COPALUM:*

Case of 200 #14 crimps: $466.98
Case of 200 #12-#10 crimps: $600.68

Rental of copalum crimper: $1680.00 for 3 months, $400ea month after 3rd.
Plus additional costs for "certification" ($500 or $600???)

For 1000 crimps + rental = 4683.40 + tax

*ALUMICON:*

Case of 1000: $1710 no tax (online order)


$1710 vs $4683.40 (my cost), my customer is trying to sell the house, I wonder which option he will choose.... "AMP/TYCO" better wake up, no one is going to use copalum when a less expensive option is available, one that is also accepted by CPSC. I would buy the crimper for $1680.00, but rent? They must be puffing on the wacky tobacky. :thumbdown: :no:


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## Mr. Sparkle

Am I the only one that thinks those pics are "engineered" failures? :whistling2:


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## MDShunk

Grimlock said:


> That is a bad business decision, I was quoted the following yesterday:
> 
> *COPALUM:*
> 
> Case of 200 #14 crimps: $466.98
> Case of 200 #12-#10 crimps: $600.68
> 
> Rental of copalum crimper: $1680.00 for 3 months, $400ea month after 3rd.
> Plus additional costs for "certification" ($500 or $600???)
> 
> For 1000 crimps + rental = 4683.40 + tax
> 
> *ALUMICON:*
> 
> Case of 1000: $1710 no tax (online order)
> 
> 
> $1710 vs $4683.40 (my cost), my customer is trying to sell the house, I wonder which option he will choose.... "AMP/TYCO" better wake up, no one is going to use copalum when a less expensive option is available, one that is also accepted by CPSC. I would buy the crimper for $1680.00, but rent? They must be puffing on the wacky tobacky. :thumbdown: :no:


Unless you know somebody that knows somebody, the copalum system has always been a lease only deal. While it might seem like a poor business decision, AMP made that decision a long time ago so that their reputation could never be tarnished by untrained installers or installers using an application tool that was out of spec. Their overall reputation was worth more than they'd ever make on increased copalum sales.


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## HARRY304E

Grimlock said:


> That is a bad business decision, I was quoted the following yesterday:
> 
> *COPALUM:*
> 
> Case of 200 #14 crimps: $466.98
> Case of 200 #12-#10 crimps: $600.68
> 
> Rental of copalum crimper: $1680.00 for 3 months, $400ea month after 3rd.
> Plus additional costs for "certification" ($500 or $600???)
> 
> For 1000 crimps + rental = 4683.40 + tax
> 
> *ALUMICON:*
> 
> Case of 1000: $1710 no tax (online order)
> 
> 
> $1710 vs $4683.40 (my cost), my customer is trying to sell the house, I wonder which option he will choose.... "AMP/TYCO" better wake up, no one is going to use copalum when a less expensive option is available, one that is also accepted by CPSC. I would buy the crimper for $1680.00, but rent? They must be puffing on the wacky tobacky. :thumbdown: :no:


Why don't you give them a quote to re wire the whole house by the time you add your labor to all the crimping the price won't be that much higher


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## Sparkykaboom

*follow the Product info*



480sparky said:


> And the reason those failed is.................????:001_huh:


count the wires 3x12awg Alum and 1x14awg - That is OVER what the product is actually rated for, that is reason for failure. Max is 2x12 alum + 1x14 Cu or 1x12Al + 2x14 Cu

Always follow what the product is rated for

http://www.idealindustries.ca/products/wire_termination/twist-on/twister_al-cu.php
1 #10 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU sol.
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU str.
1 #12 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol or str
1 #12 AL str. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU


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## The_Modifier

Sparkykaboom said:


> count the wires 3x12awg Alum and 1x14awg - That is OVER what the product is actually rated for, that is reason for failure. Max is 2x12 alum + 1x14 Cu or 1x12Al + 2x14 Cu
> 
> Always follow what the product is rated for
> 
> http://www.idealindustries.ca/products/wire_termination/twist-on/twister_al-cu.php
> 1 #10 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
> 1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
> 1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
> 1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
> 2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
> 2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
> 2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU sol.
> 2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU str.
> 1 #12 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol or str
> 1 #12 AL str. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
> 1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
> 2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
> 1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
> 2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
> 1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
> 2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
> 2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU
> 1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
> 1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
> 2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
> 2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU


Good catch, too bad the thread is 5 years old. And the poster was from the US, possibly meaning different regulations :thumbsup:


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