# Does breaker panel have to be in apartment?



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Short story:
Does the NEC require that an apartment's breaker panel be located inside the apartment?

Longer version:
The building owner and architect would like all of the breaker panels be in a main electrical room. Each apartment would have its own dedicated panel, just not be located in the apartment.


This will be a 4-story building. Plans are not finalized yet, don't know if they're planning on only 1 electrical room per floor or a single electrical room on bottom level.

This is for senior citizens and the concern is the residents monkeying around with the breakers. Not an assisted living facility, just senior citizens living on their own.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

No, it does not have to be inside of the dwelling unit. But the NEC requires it to be located either somewhere that the tenant has access to or that there is 24 hour supervision like an in-house maintenance person. 

But remember that the code no longer has any jurisdiction once the permit is closed. So it's as easy as saying that there will be a full time maintenance person there.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

The code your looking for is 240.24 (B) stating that the occupant shall have ready access. This _does not_ mean it needs to be in the unit though and certainly not the damn kitchen, just that they have access.

Part 2 of that says that if continuous building maintenance are provided by management, then the panel can be accessible only to authorized personnel, however it is specific to guest rooms without cooking facilities.

I would have the architect take a look at 240.24 for himself though.

It seems like a lot more work to me to be pulling branch circuits down the hallway.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Signal1 said:


> The code your looking for is 240.24 (B) stating that the occupant shall have ready access. This _does not_ mean it needs to be in the unit though and certainly not the damn kitchen, just that they have access.
> 
> Part 2 of that says that if continuous building maintenance are provided by management, then the panel can be accessible only to authorized personnel, *however it is specific to guest rooms without cooking facilities.*
> 
> ...


In all these years I never saw that part about cooking facilities. lain:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I think their fear of someone messing with their breakers is not based on any sound historical reasoning or born of a safety concern.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

HackWork said:


> In all these years I never saw that part about cooking facilities. lain:


To be honest, neither did I, and was surprised when I read it.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

MDShunk said:


> I think their fear of someone messing with their breakers is not based on any sound historical reasoning or born of a safety concern.


I was thinking the same thing. There are senior citizens all over the county with panels in their basements, apartments, etc. What's the issue?

Also look at the cost and labor, all those home runs back to electrical closet, instead of a single SER from each unit.

Not sure how many units, but he said 4 story building.


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## SISYPHUS (Aug 13, 2018)

Your archy is wrong, and your going to let him hang out out to dry if he's not willing to man up to his decision

fwiw, been there, lost to T shirt


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> In all these years I never saw that part about cooking facilities. lain:


Hi Hack Boy.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

......


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

You know they make locks for breaker panel doors, right?

Put them in the unit, then after the finals, knock out the D hole, install lock. Done. Uses like a chicago lock C415A key, any staff member probably already has one for a cabinet somewhere.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Let the architect design whatever he / she wants. That's not the EC's scope of work.
The architect has to submit his/her plans for plan review with the local jurisdiction 
having authority. It hat authority stamps approved and the job proceeds , it's not 
going to be the EC's problem (if one in fact surfaces down the road).. and this
is regardless of what the NEC states.

Authority having jurisdiction stamps *final approval* , then that is what the EC hangs his hat on.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> In all these years I never saw that part about cooking facilities. lain:


Maybe because the last code book bought was in 2008...


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

lighterup said:


> Let the architect design whatever he / she wants. That's not the EC's scope of work.
> The architect has to submit his/her plans for plan review with the local jurisdiction
> having authority. It hat authority stamps approved and the job proceeds , it's not
> going to be the EC's problem (if one in fact surfaces down the road).. and this
> ...


The engineering company I work for are doing the electrical design in conjunction with the architect. Not installing the electric panels in the individual apartments is what the owner and therefore the architect has requested.


I agree with others here have said about the wire pulling etc. I don't think it's a good idea. Just looking for a code reason saying it's wrong or some other means to avoid putting them all together.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

bill39 said:


> The engineering company I work for are doing the electrical design in conjunction with the architect. Not installing the electric panels in the individual apartments is what the owner and therefore the architect has requested.
> 
> 
> I agree with others here have said about the wire pulling etc. I don't think it's a good idea. Just looking for a code reason saying it's wrong or some other means to avoid putting them all together.


I can only interpret these discussions based on my state code 
just as many others should do ...cause if it's a residential
classification , then here under the RCO (residential code of Ohio) 
the approved set of plans becomes the "code" for the job .

It's called a "Certificate of Plan Approval" . The word "Permit"
isn't even a legal term here.

Architects , electrical engineers wield the authority. Electrical 
Contractors are just that...EC's. They don't wield the power 
that many infer or misuderstadingly think they do.

I am an EC. Not an engineer or architect btw , so don't think
I'm trying to undermine our trade.


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