# Reversing 6-lead single phase dual voltage motor with forward and reversing starter



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

draw out the control ckt in one state, and connect the power leads.

do this for every state.

if you really understand the circuit, the connections will then be obvious.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Maybe this will help you. Single phase starts on page 8.

http://www.goevans.com/filesSite/EHB_pgs0803.pdf


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Is this a school assignment and if so what other info do you have?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Just off the top of my head, swapping 5 & 8 should reverse it. I didn't look at your drawing either.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

This thread might help:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f28/single-phase-rev-starter-19051/


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## DoktorSleepless (Oct 30, 2014)

John Valdes said:


> Maybe this will help you. Single phase starts on page 8.
> 
> http://www.goevans.com/filesSite/EHB_pgs0803.pdf


That tells me how to wire the motor for CW or CWW direction, and I know how to do that. I'm trying to figure out the equivalent drawing of this









but with six leads.



Bird dog said:


> Is this a school assignment and if so what other info do you have?


It's for a job. I'm working on an outdoor lift. Two limit switches at the bottom of the lift, two limit switches at the top of the lift. It's been modified, so the original pushbutton controls on the lift aren't being used anymore. It's now controlled by remote control transmitter/receiver under the panel box. (this one) That controls a couple 8 pin relays, which control the forward and reverse contactors.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Your profile says "Electrical Construction and Maintanance student". Call an electrician.


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## DoktorSleepless (Oct 30, 2014)

Bird dog said:


> Your profile says "Electrical Construction and Maintanance student". Call an electrician.


I graduated, but there's always more learning to do.

I'm working with a contractor who doesn't know much about motor control, and he asked me to look at it since I studied that in school. What's making this difficult was the lack of schematic. I've wired up 3 phase motors with reverse control before, but this is somewhat different.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

DoktorSleepless said:


> I graduated, but there's always more learning to do.
> 
> I'm working with a contractor who doesn't know much about motor control, and he asked me to look at it since I studied that in school. What's making this difficult was the lack of schematic. I've wired up 3 phase motors with reverse control before, but this is somewhat different.


Im not sure what your asking. You have the diagram posted. 
If things are different in the field you need to draw it out using the basic diagram provided..

I would guess that the cube relays were substituted for the push buttons. 
It's hard for anyone not standing there to explain what we can't see. Field conditions are always different.


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## DoktorSleepless (Oct 30, 2014)

Wirenuting said:


> Im not sure what your asking. You have the diagram posted.
> If things are different in the field you need to draw it out using the basic diagram provided..
> 
> I would guess that the cube relays were substituted for the push buttons.
> It's hard for anyone not standing there to explain what we can't see. Field conditions are always different.


Yes, you are correct about the relays. I already have control circuit fixed and working. I didn't originally add that information in my post because it wasn't necessary, but the person wanted more details. I could press the buttons on the remote control, and the contractors behave exactly how I want them. 

Now, I just need to get the actual motor moving again. What I just need help with his hooking up the power circuit. I need to correctly hook up the motor leads to the two contactors. When the forward contactor's coil energizes, I want the motor to spin one way. When the Reverse contactor's coil energizes, I want the motor to reverse.

I'm looking for the equivalent power circuit to this, but with a six lead motor.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Are you replacing the motor? If so, how could you tell it was bad? Are F1 & F2 control fuses or running motor overload fuses (instead of heaters)? BTW look through your books for a start/stop/forward/rev station wired into this motor type.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

This should answer your question
Page 8

http://www.hytrol.com/mediacenter/installation_manuals/im_electricalwiring_010105.pdf


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

Does your motor have a thermal cutout? this will require some more thought look at the diagram you posted and tell me what will happen if that motor fails to start as in something jams or is to heavy. Looks to me like the start winding will fry.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

wcord said:


> This should answer your question
> Page 8
> 
> http://www.hytrol.com/mediacenter/installation_manuals/im_electricalwiring_010105.pdf


Nice book, thank you


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

DoktorSleepless said:


> Yes, you are correct about the relays. I already have control circuit fixed and working. I didn't originally add that information in my post because it wasn't necessary, but the person wanted more details. I could press the buttons on the remote control, and the contractors behave exactly how I want them.
> 
> Now, I just need to get the actual motor moving again. What I just need help with his hooking up the power circuit. I need to correctly hook up the motor leads to the two contactors. When the forward contactor's coil energizes, I want the motor to spin one way. When the Reverse contactor's coil energizes, I want the motor to reverse.
> 
> I'm looking for the equivalent power circuit to this, but with a six lead motor.


Your motor has six leads because there is a high and low speed.
If you want 2 speeds, you will need a separate switch/control.

If not, just jumper the windings for the desired speed


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> Nice book, thank you


welcome. 

google works lol


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

emtnut said:


> Your motor has six leads because there is a high and low speed.
> If you want 2 speeds, you will need a separate switch/control.
> 
> If not, just jumper the windings for the desired speed


I believe you are mistaken. The motor the OP actually is using is wired for 240v and is a single speed motor (120/240). See original post link. The picture you show is out of his textbook from school.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)




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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

wcord said:


> welcome.
> 
> google works lol


LoL, I know. But I got busy today and didn't try. 
Wife found a big tick on the pup. So she put me on bush chopping detail in the back yard. 
The good news is that I've seen more lighting bugs this year then In the past 10.
I'm hoping my milkweed garden gives me lots of butterfly's.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Bird dog said:


> I believe you are mistaken. The motor the OP actually is using is wired for 240v and is a single speed motor (120/240). See original post link. The picture you show is out of his textbook from school.


I certainly could be mistaken :laughing:

The OP pic shows 2 run windings though.
If he is running 240V, and has 2 & 3 jumpered , them he could wire as per his textbook pic. (4 lead connection)


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Here's how to connect the contractors to get one of them to run the motor in one direction and the other to make it go the opposite direction. In this case, the left contractor will make it run clockwise looking at the back of the motor (shaft pointed away from you) and the right one will make it go counter-clockwise. 

Since I am too dumb to make a drawing on the computer, I'll describe where each wire goes. Also, since it's connected for 230 volts, I'll ignore T2 and T3 since they're spliced together. This leaves T1, T4, T5 and T8. 

First, connect one of the incoming lines to the rear center pole on each contractor and also to one side of the O/L. The other side of the O/L goes to T1.

Next, connect the other incoming line to the 4 remaining rear poles. 

Now, connect T4 to the front left pole on the left contractor and the front center pole of the right contractor. T5 goes to the front center pole on the left contractor and the front left pole on the right contractor. Finally, T8 goes to the front right pole of the left contractor and the front right of the right contractor. 

A word of caution here, T1 is always energized and T4 will be as well as it is connected to T1 through the motor winding. This is actually code compliant per 430.84.....The controller shall not be required to open all conductors to the motor. 

The contractors look like they're mechanically interlocked and even if they are, be careful to not energize both contractors at the same time. To do so will result in a dead short of the incoming lines. 

The heater element in the O/L needs to be sized to the 230 volt current of the motor. 

It would be a good idea to test the control circuit before connecting the motor. Energize it and press one of the buttons (or remote controller) and make sure that only one contractor pulls in. Then release that button and press the other. If the other contractor pulls in, then you can connect the motor. 

Correct motor rotation will be determined by the limit switches. If it goes past either limit switch, it's turning the wrong way. The reason being that if the down contractor is energized but the winch is going up, then the up limit switch will de-energize only the up contractor, not the down one. 

If it turns the wrong way, swap T5 and T8; at the motor is best but if that's difficult, then swap them at the front of the left contractor and leave everything else as it is.


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## DoktorSleepless (Oct 30, 2014)

Galt said:


> Does your motor have a thermal cutout? this will require some more thought look at the diagram you posted and tell me what will happen if that motor fails to start as in something jams or is to heavy. Looks to me like the start winding will fry.


There's an overload relay right next the right contactor. That's not enough?





wcord said:


> This should answer your question
> Page 8
> 
> http://www.hytrol.com/mediacenter/installation_manuals/im_electricalwiring_010105.pdf


If I followed it correctly, it looks like with the Forward coil energized, L1 goes to T5 and T1, while L2 goes to T4. With the Reverse coil energized, L1 goes to T1, and L2 goes to T5 and T4. And T2,T3,T8 are tied up. I'm kind of having trouble visualizing how the polarity of T5 and T8 are reversed.



micromind said:


> Here's how to connect the contractors to get one of them to run the motor in one direction and the other to make it go the opposite direction. In this case, the left contractor will make it run clockwise looking at the back of the motor (shaft pointed away from you) and the right one will make it go counter-clockwise.
> 
> Since I am too dumb to make a drawing on the computer, I'll describe where each wire goes. Also, since it's connected for 230 volts, I'll ignore T2 and T3 since they're spliced together. This leaves T1, T4, T5 and T8.
> 
> ...


Okay, this makes sense to me! Thanks!. I see how 8 and 5 are reversed in this one.









In noticed in the PDF linked by wcore, it also showed how to reverse a 6 lead motor when hooked up to 120V. It used a two 4 pole breakers instead. If you looked at the picture I posted, there's a third two pole contractor that doesn't seem to be doing anything. Do you think that third contactor might have been a way to get around that problem?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

The 2 pole contractor could have been used to completely isolate power from the motor when it's not running. In this case, it would need to be energized any time either of the other contractors were. 

It might have been to energize (release) a brake though. 

The drawing you made is exactly correct but I made a mistake. The incoming power (L1) should be connected to one side of the O/L and T1 and the contactors connected to the other. 

One O/L is enough for a single phase motor and in fact, if it's factory installed, there's only one.


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## DoktorSleepless (Oct 30, 2014)

micromind said:


> The drawing you made is exactly correct but I made a mistake. The incoming power (L1) should be connected to one side of the O/L and T1 and the contactors connected to the other. .


Sorry, can you rephrase that differently? I'm not exactly sure what you mean I need to change.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> LoL, I know. But I got busy today and didn't try.
> Wife found a big tick on the pup. So she put me on bush chopping detail in the back yard.
> The good news is that I've seen more lighting bugs this year then In the past 10.
> I'm hoping my milkweed garden gives me lots of butterfly's.


got to love tic season.:laughing:


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

DoktorSleepless said:


> Sorry, can you rephrase that differently? I'm not exactly sure what you mean I need to change.


Actually, the drawing is correct. I'm more tired than I thought.....lol.


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