# Point of Attachment Height Help



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Is that PVC ?


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

telsa said:


> Is that PVC ?


The conduit? Yes.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

What about running rigid straight up through the roof, you'll get the 3' then. That is too low. 


Sent from my house using the binary system!


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

Service Call said:


> What about running rigid straight up through the roof, you'll get the 3' then. That is too low.
> 
> 
> Sent from my house using the binary system!


Thanks for the response. You're thinking going straight up from the metering pan? The roof above the metering pan is 12' which means for the mast I would have to go another 6' feet to get the 18' they want.

I just wish the PoCo gives me a better explanation of what they want because they are so vague...

Thanks,

Pat


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## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

If it's over a public street the 18 feet is correct . It's some where in article 230 but I don't have the code book with me .


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Read 230.24 clearances Pat


~CS~


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

chicken steve said:


> Read 230.24 clearances Pat
> 
> 
> ~CS~


CS, 

Thanks for the code reference. I understand the 18' clearance. I just thought that when they pulled in the slack of the existing service drop, they would have gotten the 18' they needed. 

Moving forward, is there any insight on how to make the service mast work for this house?

Thanks again,

Pat


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

Are you crossing a street? Is that why you need to be that high? From the pic it just looks like a side yard. The 3' is above the point of passing the roof, not 3' above the total roof height. 


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

PatrickPresti said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not with PVC. 


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

The service is crossing the street. The current point of attachment I installed is right at 15'.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

My Poco, PG&E, spells this out even in their Green Book, since it's an issue that they constantly have to confront.

I'm puzzled that your Poco is not crystal clear.

Did you ask for // obtain their 'standards of installation manual' ?

Every Poco has one.

Their inspectors don't (usually) pull these issues out of their ears. 

For us, the Green Book, (yes, it's green on the outside) is free to licensed ECs.

They printed plenty of copies, anyway.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

see below


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Around here, we can't even dream of installing an overhead Service.

PVC would be rejected as a riser -- even for temp power.

Everything must be different on Long Island. 

&&&

What is in the lower pipe ?


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

telsa said:


> Around here, we can't even dream of installing an overhead Service.
> 
> PVC would be rejected as a riser -- even for temp power.
> 
> ...


Correct. The box is the meter pan and the lower pipe is the feed to the breaker panel in the basement.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

telsa said:


> Around here, we can't even dream of installing an overhead Service.
> 
> PVC would be rejected as a riser -- even for temp power.
> 
> Everything must be different on Long Island.


Actually everything is different (ie: normal) outside of California.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

https://www.psegliny.com/files.cfm/redbook.pdf

try reading page 14


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

wildleg said:


> https://www.psegliny.com/files.cfm/redbook.pdf
> 
> try reading page 14


I get the 18' clearance. Moving forward, I want to make sure I get it right. What would you do to get the point of attachment 3 feet higher?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

PatrickPresti said:


> I get the 18' clearance. Moving forward, I want to make sure I get it right. What would you do to get the point of attachment 3 feet higher?



you missed my point entirely. Prior to starting any service, you should make sure that you familiarize yourself with the local utility manual/greenbook. I have seen some ridiculous 3 phase service reconfigurations that were simply the result of guys who didn't take the time to find out or read the requirements, and fail miserably. Don't be one of those guys.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

wildleg said:


> you missed my point entirely. Prior to starting any service, you should make sure that you familiarize yourself with the local utility manual/greenbook. I have seen some ridiculous 3 phase service reconfigurations that were simply the result of guys who didn't take the time to find out or read the requirements, and fail miserably. Don't be one of those guys.


I did read the redbook beforehand. I thought when they shortened up the service drop, I was going to get the 18' clearance requirement over the street. I was able to get the point of attachment at 15' which was the minimum in the redbook.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

wildleg said:


> you missed my point entirely. Prior to starting any service, you should make sure that you familiarize yourself with the local utility manual/greenbook. I have seen some ridiculous 3 phase service reconfigurations that were simply the result of guys who didn't take the time to find out or read the requirements, and fail miserably. Don't be one of those guys.


Moving forward I am just trying to find out what the best plan of attack would be for me to be successful with this service. I appreciate your insight.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

PatrickPresti said:


> Moving forward I am just trying to find out what the best plan of attack would be for me to be successful with this service. I appreciate your insight.


ALWAYS stay away from minimums.

That means any minimum you see ANYWHERE.

In the NEC, in the Poco rules, *anywhere*.

To be on or at a minimum means that you have entirely given up your margin of error.

Don't ever do that.

It's a sure fire route to bankruptcy.

As for riser technique, I defer to the fellas.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

telsa said:


> ALWAYS stay away from minimums.
> 
> That means any minimum you see ANYWHERE.
> 
> ...


Understood. Giving the house, that was the only location I could put a the point of attachment withouy using a service mast. Moving forward, doese anyone have any insight on what actin I should take to resolve this situation?

Thanks,

Pat


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

can you do a picture of the line from pole to house? looks like what tour saying about taking the slack out could get your clearance. it also looks like the mast going striaght up above the roof about 4-5 foot would easily get it, but you may need a guy wire.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Looks like 18 feet to me as it it is.

8 foot ladder I believe you POA is at 15 feet. By the time she hits the corner of the house looks like 18 feet to me.

Back up for the next pic. Where is the road. A couple of sticks of PVC will measure the height at the road. No?


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

papaotis said:


> can you do a picture of the line from pole to house? looks like what tour saying about taking the slack out could get your clearance. it also looks like the mast going striaght up above the roof about 4-5 foot would easily get it, but you may need a guy wire.


Dave,

I will get some better pictures in the morning explaining my situation.

I understanding what you're saying with the mast but the mast was my last resort. I was trying to stay away from that.

Thanks,

Pat


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

daveEM said:


> Looks like 18 feet to me as it it is.
> 
> 8 foot ladder I believe you POA is at 15 feet. By the time she hits the corner of the house looks like 18 feet to me.
> 
> Back up for the next pic. Where is the road. A couple of sticks of PVC will measure the height at the road. No?



Dave,

I will get more pictures. I will get the measurements of the wire at the height at the road too. 

Thanks, 

Pat


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

PatrickPresti said:


> Dave,
> 
> I will get some better pictures in the morning explaining my situation.
> 
> ...



Here are some more pictures. Let me know what you think...


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

Judging by the first pic, it still looks Like a stick of rigid straight up will suffice. If not, add a small section to the bottom of the riser. 


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

PatrickPresti said:


> Here are some more pictures. Let me know what you think...












We would not be allowed to do that here. POA has to be at the pole line. For example if they moved the pole a few feet there is a chance the drop coming in would wrap around the side of the house.

But anyway if you need say +3 feet off a peak (we do here) it looks like you could extend the pipe towards the street then up to the peak of that little roof. Looks like you have about 6 feet off the roof peak and would gain an additional 3 feet. It would also keep *our* poco happy in that the drop would never wrap.

I'd be interested in the measurement at the road. In the original pic it looks like it should be ok but in the pic of the drop for sure she is coming down fast.

I doubt they will pull her tight for you.

Another 20 feet of pipe or so to the other peak. That's where I'd put it. Maybe even through the roof there if you need clearance off that roof. Our clearance off a peak is 1 meter (39 inches)... and 8 feet clearance over a flat roof.

I'm thinking the siding is 6 inches.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

daveEM said:


> We would not be allowed to do that here. POA has to be at the pole line. For example if they moved the pole a few feet there is a chance the drop coming in would wrap around the side of the house.
> 
> But anyway if you need say +3 feet off a peak (we do here) it looks like you could extend the pipe towards the street then up to the peak of that little roof. Looks like you have about 6 feet off the roof peak and would gain an additional 3 feet. It would also keep *our* poco happy in that the drop would never wrap.
> 
> ...


Dave,

Thanks for the response. Yes, the siding is a 6" reveal. I too was thinking about running the POA on the the peak of the little roof but doesn't the redbook state that the POA has to be accessible from a ladder that's on the ground? Thanks for your help.

Pat


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

PatrickPresti said:


> Dave,
> 
> Thanks for the response. Yes, the siding is a 6" reveal. I too was thinking about running the POA on the the peak of the little roof but doesn't the redbook state that the POA has to be accessible from a ladder that's on the ground? Thanks for your help.
> 
> Pat



yes it does


> 4.3.5 All service attachments must be directly accessible by a ladder in contact with the ground.
> Attachment height shall be no greater than 21 feet above grade. For commercial/industrial
> applications, where greater than 21 feet is


I'd go (almost) straight up to the lower corner of the roof above, and be done with it (unless I'm missing something)


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

wildleg said:


> yes it does
> 
> 
> I'd go (almost) straight up to the lower corner of the roof above, and be done with it (unless I'm missing something)


Thanks for the reply. If my POA was on the upper roof, how would you have the conduit jump the roof to get to the lower soffit to the meter pan? 

Thanks,

Pat


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

PatrickPresti said:


> Dave,
> but doesn't the redbook state that the POA has to be accessible from a ladder that's on the ground? Thanks for your help.
> 
> Pat


Yeah that makes total sense. The wouldn't want people on the roof. Brain dead for a bit there.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

2 1/2" rigid straight up. You can go 4ft above the roof with 2 1/2"


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

3DDesign said:


> 2 1/2" rigid straight up. You can go 4ft above the roof with 2 1/2"


Hi Greg,

Sounds like that is the only option with the mast for this house. I am going to call PSEGLI this week and see if I can send a photo with my plan prior to switching it out. Thanks for your help.

Pat


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

These two pages are from West Penn Power's hand book. You'll see that 2 1/2" conduit is allowed to extend 4ft above the roof to the point of attachment. That means the conduit can extend a total of 5 ft above the roof. If you use a nipple make sure it's at the bottom of the count. 
The height above the street is 18 ft. measured from street level. Your requirements may be different.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

3DDesign said:


> These two pages are from West Penn Power's hand book. You'll see that 2 1/2" conduit is allowed to extend 4ft above the roof to the point of attachment. That means the conduit can extend a total of 5 ft above the roof. If you use a nipple make sure it's at the bottom of the count.
> The height above the street is 18 ft. measured from street level. Your requirements may be different.


Greg,

Thanks for the reply. My requirements. One question I have is below where the 2 1/2" RMC is through bolted to the studs, can you switch it over to PVC going to the meter?

Pat


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

Here is the update. We'll see how it goes...


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

PatrickPresti said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just recently finished a new service upgrade on Long Island. PSEGLI stopped by to look at the install and said the Point of Attachment needs to be 3' higher than where it is at 15'.
> 
> ...


You are going to be in trouble. It is going to be tough to get your 18'(which you need) in that situation. You needed to look at some other options IMO.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> You are going to be in trouble. It is going to be tough to get your 18'(which you need) in that situation. You needed to look at some other options IMO.


Take a look at the picture above...


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

They would not let us run a mast up that high here. They should have put their own pole on your side of the road.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

It's a half a foot higher than it should be but we'll see what happens. Worst case scenario I just have to cut a foot off of the top...


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

Thanks for all of your help guys. PSEGLI approved the updated service mast. Many thanks!

Pat


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I know I'm late to this, but why didn't you put the service in one of the below areas?


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

Helmut said:


> I know I'm late to this, but why didn't you put the service in one of the below areas?
> 
> View attachment 69185


The peak isn't good because the POA has to be accessible from a ladder that is in contact with the ground.

The other spot isn't good because the service would have to go over the small roof to travel down to the side of the house...


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

Here is the new service mast.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

PatrickPresti said:


> The peak isn't good because the POA has to be accessible from a ladder that is in contact with the ground.


 Really? 




PatrickPresti said:


> The other spot isn't good because the service would have to go over the small roof to travel down to the side of the house...


No, you move the meter can over and drill through the soffit like you did, just that it would line up with the addition corner and travel up the corner. It would of looked neater,


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

No guy wires needed either?


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

Helmut said:


> No guy wires needed either?


Nope....go figure.


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## gryczewskip (Oct 27, 2015)

No tie back. You will in my area. Put that thing underground

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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

It got approved by the Power Company....


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## gryczewskip (Oct 27, 2015)

Do you need an electrical inspection first. Most places do, then the power company comes out. I don't see a driven ground rod, or heavy wall emt from meter can.
Is it 100 or 200 amp, on a 200 we would have a 2 1/2 rigid mast.
Everywhere is different.

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## Destarah (Feb 18, 2016)

I am curious to know how this played out. Can we get an update Pat?

As to your question on November 15th, I believe you would need to bond the service mast to the meter base if you install PVC between them, but otherwise there is no reason you can't do that.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

gryczewskip said:


> Do you need an electrical inspection first. Most places do, then the power company comes out. I don't see a driven ground rod, or heavy wall emt from meter can.
> Is it 100 or 200 amp, on a 200 we would have a 2 1/2 rigid mast.
> Everywhere is different.
> 
> Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


Pocos here do not allow any grounding connections in the meter base, we have to connect to our main disconnect. 2" grc is the norm for 200s here and sch 80 for load side piping. It's amazing how each area is different. Then some parts of the world allow exposed se cable on the exterior. It's crazy.


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## PatrickPresti (Nov 13, 2015)

Destarah said:


> I am curious to know how this played out. Can we get an update Pat?
> 
> As to your question on November 15th, I believe you would need to bond the service mast to the meter base if you install PVC between them, but otherwise there is no reason you can't do that.


The power company had to inspect the new service prior to the hookup. All went well. I have a ground wire from the breaker panel to a grounding rod outside. I have the ground wire kinda hidden up below the siding then going to the ground in the corner of the house.

Pat


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## Electek inc (Mar 11, 2016)

You can install steel angle iron or heavy channel where the service head is. You can run pvc up the iron and attach the service drop to iron.


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