# Outdoor big-area security lighting.



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm talking 70w to 1000w kind of lighting. I haven't worked on bigger yet.

I've recently changed over from liking metal halide to liking HPS. For most outdoor applications, you just get a brighter light for less wattage.

Anyone know the equivalent of a 400w MH bulb in lumens for HPS? It seems to be equivalent to 175w HPS, but it's so hard to gauge because the color is just so different.

Discuss, I'm willing to listen to your point of view. I like HPS.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HPS sucks.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Yeah, what he said ^^^^


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I personally like HPS over Halide. Maybe cause in the 70's while growing up thats what replaced incadescant and mercury vapor. LEDs are pretty bright, most hiways are getting them in these parts.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I personally like HPS over Halide. Maybe cause in the 70's while growing up thats what replaced incadescant and mercury vapor. LEDs are pretty bright, most hiways are getting them in these parts.


The city I live in is changing a bunch of LPS city lights to LEDs. I haven't seen them, but I'm waiting on the day!

There's probably a bit of a price difference.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

kaboler said:


> The city I live in is changing a bunch of LPS city lights to LEDs. I haven't seen them, but (I'm waiting on the day!)
> 
> There's probably a bit of a price difference.



WHY? They are not on, on the day!!!:jester:


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

I like whatever my boss bids to install.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

we're phasing out most HPS and metal halide in favor of LED


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## IBEW191 (Apr 4, 2011)

jza said:


> I like whatever my boss bids to install.


 A yes man. Nice....


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

zwodubber said:


> we're phasing out most HPS and metal halide in favor of LED


That's a nice bright white light...:thumbup:

One of the towns here got rid of all the HPS and installed induction fixtures they are also bright white they look a hell of a lot better then HPS


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

IBEW191 said:


> A yes man. Nice....


Okay next time my boss tells me to go put in a fixture, I'll get in a debate with him and tell him I'm putting in my personal preferences.

You ******** or something? Oh, IBEW, guess you are.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

IBEW191 said:


> A yes man. Nice....


Unless the union has changed I believe you install whatever is spec'd as well IBEW. Your no different than he is until you run the company and help make the design choices you just install what your told too just like a nonunion electrician. No need for the insult.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

jza said:


> Okay next time my boss tells me to go put in a fixture, I'll get in a debate with him and tell him I'm putting in my personal preferences.
> 
> You ******** or something? Oh, IBEW, guess you are.


Do we have to get so bitter with the union nonunion crap? He's probably not ******** , just been taught that union is better when its not. Same job, same do what your told just more rules and monthly dues. Mo better or worse than a,nonunion electrician just different. Now can't we all just get along.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

We've been recommending LED for exterior lighting in the recent past, and it's starting to catch on.

The movie theater up in Lincoln City has had problems with their old 35 foot pole lights falling over in the wind; they're simply so rusty and structurally compromised that they literally snap off mid-span. There's a total of I think 17 poles, 4 have fallen over. We quoted them a price to replace them all with new aluminum poles with either Metal Halide heads or LED heads. The price difference for the whole job was like a few hundred bucks. They took the LED option and as far as I know, it'll be the first parking lot lit entirely by LEDs on the Oregon Coast (though the Home Depot up in Astoria might be - not sure).


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

jza said:


> Okay next time my boss tells me to go put in a fixture, I'll get in a debate with him and tell him I'm putting in my personal preferences.
> 
> You ******** or something? Oh, IBEW, guess you are.


jza it's too bad you have no input about design or anything at your job. A lot of big companies value people who shut up and do their job, like BP. They're looking for you.

Some jobs, you can. Journeymen don't ask me what I think, ever, but because I have my personal preferences, I'll say, "can I put in HPS?" or "when I go to the supplier, can I find out the price difference between these 2 things?" I'm a first year, and it's so normal, because I'm often getting supplies, and they trust me.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

erics37 said:


> We've been recommending LED for exterior lighting in the recent past, and it's starting to catch on.


Its more difficult for me because of the limited supply N of the border, and the relative cheapness of our electricity here.

For supplies, I think we're probably 5 years behind the USA.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

kaboler said:


> Its more difficult for me because of the limited supply N of the border, and the relative cheapness of our electricity here.


We have pretty cheap electricity in the Northwest too but it's easy to sell LEDs for other reasons. For example, they have a much longer lifespan so you won't need to hire a guy to spend a day in a lift every couple of years changing lamps and ballasts.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

erics37 said:


> ... they have a much longer lifespan so you won't need to hire a guy to spend a day in a lift every couple of years changing lamps and ballasts.


My boss isn't particular on that point hahahahaha.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

kaboler said:


> jza it's too bad you have no input about design or anything at your job. A lot of big companies value people who shut up and do their job, like BP. They're looking for you.
> 
> Some jobs, you can. Journeymen don't ask me what I think, ever, but because I have my personal preferences, I'll say, "can I put in HPS?" or "when I go to the supplier, can I find out the price difference between these 2 things?" I'm a first year, and it's so normal, because I'm often getting supplies, and they trust me.


Why would I give a **** if I'm installing an HPS, MH or LED?

My personal opinion doesn't matter, it comes down to what the customer wants. If he wants my opinion I'll give it to him otherwise I keep my mouth shut, you should try it for once.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> HPS sucks.


Except in applications where light quality doesn't matter, and energy efficiency is important. That's pretty much why it's only used for streetlights and security lighting.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jza said:


> Okay next time my boss tells me to go put in a fixture, I'll get in a debate with him and tell him I'm putting in my personal preferences.
> 
> You ******** or something? Oh, IBEW, guess you are.


 

Are you slow? He was complimenting you. At least that's how I took it


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

jza said:


> Why would I give a **** if I'm installing an HPS, MH or LED?
> 
> My personal opinion doesn't matter, it comes down to what the customer wants. If he wants my opinion I'll give it to him otherwise I keep my mouth shut, you should try it for once.


Don't feed the troll.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Don't feed the troll.


Yeah, you are big enough already. :laughing::jester:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, you are big enough already. :laughing::jester:


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

erics37 said:


> We have pretty cheap electricity in the Northwest too but it's easy to sell LEDs for other reasons. For example, they have a much longer lifespan so you won't need to hire a guy to spend a day in a lift every couple of years changing lamps and ballasts.


They will need to hire a guy to spend a week in a lift in five to seven years to replace those fixtures when L-80 is reached and lumen depreciation is lower than acceptable levels.

Induction lights are supposed to last twenty maintenance free years, at which time maintenance can be performed, unlike most disposable LED fixtures. 

I just spent the weekend humping these bad boys forty feet up.
500 Watt induction, DNK! Replacing 1000 watt MH.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

The Lightman said:


> They will need to hire a guy to spend a week in a lift in five to seven years to replace those fixtures when L-80 is reached and lumen depreciation is lower than acceptable levels.
> 
> Induction lights are supposed to last twenty maintenance free years, at which time maintenance can be performed, unlike most disposable LED fixtures.
> 
> ...


Gotta walk before we can run :laughing::thumbup:


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

The Lightman said:


> They will need to hire a guy to spend a week in a lift in five to seven years to replace those fixtures when L-80 is reached and lumen depreciation is lower than acceptable levels.
> 
> Induction lights are supposed to last twenty maintenance free years, at which time maintenance can be performed, unlike most disposable LED fixtures.
> 
> ...


What do those things cost? I've installed some vapor tight 85w induction fixtures and they run about 375 clams each.


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

kaboler said:


> Anyone know the equivalent of a 400w MH bulb in lumens for HPS? It seems to be equivalent to 175w HPS, but it's so hard to gauge because the color is just so different.
> 
> .


A pulse start 400w MH is around 25,500 lumens (mean)

A 250w HPS is about 25,000 lumens (mean)

Not sure I've ever seen a 175w HPS.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

The Lightman said:


> I just spent the weekend humping these bad boys forty feet up.
> 500 Watt induction, DNK! Replacing 1000 watt MH.


Yeah, that's a big light. Email me a manufacturer and some specs.

Gotta be half the weight of the 1000MH.

Good for you, and send before and after pics.:thumbsup:


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

*Who makes them?*

Could you tell me some decent led or induction fixture makers for 400w metal halide replacements? Got a customer who is in need.
Thanks


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Ima Hack said:


> What do those things cost? I've installed some vapor tight 85w induction fixtures and they run about 375 clams each.


The big ones cost a couple of more clams. 
The installed price is very close to what two lamp and ballast replacement costs with labor would be for the MH 1000.
If the induction lights live up to their 100,000 hour/20 year claim while using half the energy, the real payback will come from saved maintenance costs. Those highly skilled lighting guys don't come cheap.
My monthly scheduled Sunday stop at a local shopping center called this afternoon to tell me there are twenty nine pole lights out right now. That add up to a serious yearly expenditure.
Last month at a local mall, I changed out forty seven ballasts.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> Yeah, that's a big light. Email me a manufacturer and some specs.
> 
> Gotta be half the weight of the 1000MH.
> 
> Good for you, and send before and after pics.:thumbsup:


Job is fifty percent complete. They get heavier as the day progresses.
Send me an e-mail, I'll give you the counties' P.O.

Did you perfect an induction coach light yet? I need a hundred.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Sparky J said:


> Could you tell me some decent led or induction fixture makers for 400w metal halide replacements? Got a customer who is in need.
> Thanks


Neptun 250W Induction.
See above comment on LED.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

The Lightman said:


> Job is fifty percent complete. They get heavier as the day progresses.
> Send me an e-mail, I'll give you the counties' P.O.
> 
> Did you perfect an induction coach light yet? I need a hundred.


Email sent.

Let's do some business.:thumbsup:


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

zwodubber said:


> we're phasing out most HPS and metal halide in favor of LED


Zwodubber who makes the led lights used in your pictures?


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Induction = floursecent. I'm in a northern climate, so that stuff can't fly.

250w HPS = 400W MH? That sound about right to me.


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

kaboler said:


> Induction = floursecent. I'm in a northern climate, so that stuff can't fly.
> 
> 250w HPS = 400W MH? That sound about right to me.


Actually I have a customer that uses them in commercial freezers. They seem to do quite well in the cold.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

kaboler said:


> Induction = floursecent. I'm in a northern climate, so that stuff can't fly.
> 
> 250w HPS = 400W MH? That sound about right to me.





Get informed!

There are fluorescent, and induction lighting fixtures, that will operate perfectly in cold climates!


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

i have a customer who owns multiple building in the area, where we have been taking down 400 watt MH and installing 100 watt induction. There is a little less light but the 75% energy savings are a huge plus, not to mention the light is supposed to last 20 - 25 years before maintenance.
The best part about the induction install is the wieght compared to the MH


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Induction equivalent to MH should be about half the wattage. If they are going with 25% of the wattage, they have chosen to deal with less light output for the additional savings. That might be fine for that facility's needs, but with lumen depreciation over time, you should know that the preferred replacement is 50% of the wattage of HID for induction. At this time. Stuff changes over time.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> after pics.:thumbsup:


Forty six up, twelve to go!


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

The Lightman said:


> Forty six up, twelve to go!


How's the footcandle level when compared to the original light?


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Ima Hack said:


> How's the footcandle level when compared to the original light?


When we do LED's I take FC readings before the quote and our manufacturer adjusts accordingly. You can adjust angle and the manufacturer will adjust the spread of the LED's before shipping.

I use AEMC for FC readings


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Sparky J said:


> Zwodubber who makes the led lights used in your pictures?


It's actually a PA company that makes them, I will get you more information. We stay away from chinese ****


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

*Thanks*



zwodubber said:


> It's actually a PA company that makes them, I will get you more information. We stay away from chinese ****


Yes please any info you can offer would be greatly appreciated! Yes anything non-Chinese (is there such a thing now?) :laughing:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Sparky J said:


> Yes please any info you can offer would be greatly appreciated! Yes anything non-Chinese (is there such a thing now?) :laughing:



One more picture of the LED's we use vs HPS. I will get info to you on the supplier I just need to double check with my boss (company owner) that I am not going to get into any trouble. Not quite sure what our contract states.

This was a one pole test install at a train station, the difference is clear.


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