# Swapping ATS Guts



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I recently found an indoor 480 volt 600amp ASCO switch that was inoperative.
They no longer support the old controller.
The switch was the same size physically so that was very easy.
The new controller was slightly different in shape.
We made a new cutout for the opening needed and bolted a cover over the old controller hole.

The electrical inspector is insisting that the enclosure was modified and altered and the its "UL listing" has been voided.

I thought this myth was left behind back in the 20th Century.

The ATS is listed as 1008. Not much can be found about enclosures. They seem to be generic and seem to be sized for wire bending space.
The new enclosure is the same size as the old one.

Have I missed something here?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

jrannis said:


> I recently found an indoor 480 volt 600amp ASCO switch that was inoperative.
> They no longer support the old controller.
> The switch was the same size physically so that was very easy.
> The new controller was slightly different in shape.
> ...


So... 

You didn't have coffee and donuts at the ready?

&&&&

If I read you correctly, it's the interior that's been modified...

And, implicitly, that you've pulled the guts out of a new switch -- installing them inside the already mounted chassis as it was mounted.

Which leads me to believe that the AHJ is insisting that you go to the additional effort to R&R the old can, entire.

Is that correct?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

telsa said:


> So...
> 
> You didn't have coffee and donuts at the ready?
> 
> ...


Yes. That's it.
Problem is, the municipality is the client.
The client just wanted to pay to have the interior swapped.
I let them know we could provide that service if the inspector insists.
They don't want to pay.
I told the inspector to go ahead and red tag it and that I did not give a crap.
He did.
They have 30 days to comply.
They want me to do it for free.
I say just turn it off if it's that big of a problem.
Just so happens it's a very, very important building.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Ok, one more bump.
ATS interior replacement. Like for like.
Inspector is pulling out the UL card.
I'm not an expert but UL 1008 covers the switch and all of its features.
AHJ insists the switch and enclosure are an assembly.
I don't see a double throw relay, with its own UL 1008 label as part of an assembly.
AHJ believes closing an unused opening with same gauge metal has altered and modified the cabinet.
I'm not looking for validation, just shedding light on ignorance. Not sure if it's mine or someone else's.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

So pulling a knockout or covering a hole in an enclosure modifies it and it's no longer listed? I call BS, inspector is wrong.

The real issue is not the enclosure, it's the installation of the replacement transfer switch assembly. 

The enclosure is optional for a transfer switch, switch could also be mounted in a switchboard or whatever. What the hell does the enclosure do except offer physical protection?

If they really insist third party field inspection and labeling is what's required for the ASCO switch to be properly listed in it's new configuration.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We had a response from Emerson /ASCO.
The issue is no more.
This is a message to all of those that cry about voiding the listing:


Hi Guys,

Our side is like providing you just the guts and controller.

“Drilling a hole” in your enclosure does not void UL but you still have to make sure you will comply with ‘wire bending’ and the rest of UL standards etc.


REPLACEMENT ORDER: CAT# J03ATSA30600NG0C


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

1. He s full of crap we do this several times a month and so do ASCO, Techs
2. You could service the switch and replace just the controller, did 3 this week.
3. It is cheaper to buy a 70 amp switch complete, then just a controller.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

It was interesting to me that the controller for a 400amp was slightly different than the 600amp.
I thought they would be the same.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

jrannis said:


> It was interesting to me that the controller for a 400amp was slightly different than the 600amp.
> I thought they would be the same.


What brand? several manufactures make different control panels but the same group number should be the same with the major manufactures that we typically use.


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