# Best way to re-wire a vandalized house?



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

zack.vernon said:


> Hey guys, I did a rough in on a house a few weeks back, and as the house sat empty for some other trades to do their work, some guys came in during the night and cut most of my feeds to the panel, all of the plug circuits and some switch legs.
> Ill be going in next week to do a re-wire, whats my best approach? rip everything out and start over? Tape a new wire onto the old wire and pull it through all my studs?
> 
> Thanks


Put the windows and doors in first... they know it'll be re-wired!

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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Use aluminum wire.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

wait to be reimbursed from the gc's insurance company for a complete rewire, then proceed.

(hopefully you have a clause in your contract limiting your liability for any damage of work in place. hopefully you also take progress pictures)

and if the jobsite has still not been secured, refuse to install anything until it is.


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## zack.vernon (Jun 30, 2018)

Whats the best way to re pull the feeds? or will it be a bad time no matter what?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

zack.vernon said:


> Whats the best way to re pull the feeds? or will it be a bad time no matter what?


Get you a couple meth heads on craigslist to come pull the rest for free, then it's just plain old new construction, but with the holes already drilled where you want them.

If sheetrock isn't up yet, why bother trying to re-use it? It's going to cost more in labor trying to salvage then just to pull new.


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## KnightPower (Nov 5, 2016)

I agree bad time. Though locks only stop honest people I'd wait until holes are plugged. As for the feeds are they in an accessible place? Attic? Crawlspace? If so why not set a junction box and then rewire with minimum wire? (I hate that but seen it). Just be particular in knowing which goes where. But if not, you could tape, repull and use the longer feeds for your SLs and chains between receptacles. 

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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

The best way to rewire is with conductors.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Start over.

At least you've got holes punched.

All prior work is hopelessly compromised.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

KnightPower said:


> I agree bad time. Though locks only stop honest people I'd wait until holes are plugged. As for the feeds are they in an accessible place? Attic? Crawlspace? If so *why not set a junction box and then rewire with minimum wire?* (I hate that but seen it). Just be particular in knowing which goes where. But if not, you could tape, repull and use the longer feeds for your SLs and chains between receptacles.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Why this option?? You'll piss away more time figuring out what is there and what was taken.. Gut it and redo.. Nothins free, and neither is the demo time.. Take the left over scrap in and get a coffee on the way to the bank..


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Rip it out and start fresh. If you get mixed up blending old with new, you will have a bad day at finishing time.

Your cost should be higher than original because of demo. If somebody tries to tell you it should be lower because it's half done, call bull chit. This is no different than a big, fat change order.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I would be interested who cut the wire. Did you fire someone recently? It isn't uncommon.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Charge time & material to restore it and make sure it's as good as new. All new runs.

Somebody is buying new work and that's what they should get.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

or the job is readily accessible from Crackville...highway
nearby...easy escape route...also remote area or an area
where everyone doors & windows get locked after dark...
curtains down...pay no attention to the nightly gun fights outside.

with regard to what Wildleg in post #4 said...
Once the NM is on the house...it legally becomes part of
the house...this is why angry EC who gets stiffed cannot
go back and legally remove his work BTW.

OP needs to be paid for wiring twice plus demo time

EDIT TO AD: because the NM becomes part of the house 
illegal removal becomes burglary....
So the OP didn't get burglarized , the
owner of the house did and that means the HO's
insurance (not the EC's insurance) gets
to handle the claim.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

I work in a lot of those houses that have been stripped. Electrical, mechanical, or plumbing; just find a spot to cut clean and start over. Trust me, they’ll be something you missed. Wire partially cut and ended up in the hole of the stud, things like that.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Take nothing for granted, NO ASSUMPTIONS!


I would pull all the HR's out that were cut back to the box they feed. Then I would physically run my hand and eyes over every inch of wire between devices, one circuit at a time to verify the rest of the circuits are intact. At this point I would repull all the homeruns and anything else needed.


None of this work happens until the jobsite is secure, and the payment details are sorted out for this extra work with the GC/customer first!!!!


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Demo work...billable
Continuity test every branch circuit for open or short...billable
(meggering not necessary sooo...you megger-nuts....
Waiting for police response to fill out report for burglary...billable


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Start over. A new house should be newly wired, not all effed up with J boxes and compromised wiring.

Of course this should be after you get paid for the first time, and the demo of the wrecked wiring.

Don't let this be YOUR problem.


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## KnightPower (Nov 5, 2016)

He asked how to handle it and I gave him options. So be it. Get confirmation on payment. Rip it all out and rewire, after they secure the openings. But to scrap all that romex?!.. I think I would take time to meg it at shop than get an overpriced coffee with it. 

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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

As mentioned, iron out the payment first, then rip it all out (billable demo) and start over. 

You can bill for a percentage of your original price for the re-install, should be pretty straightforward based on your original price and payment schedule. You can reasonably bill time and materials for the demo. The SCHEDULE is where the arguing will be. You could reasonably ask for extra for the demo and to re-do the work, because the labor will be overtime / nights / weekends / holidays; you have to do this work in addition to OTHER work you already have scheduled and you must honor your other commitments in addition to this unexpected / unplanned extra work.


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## sprky69 (Sep 15, 2010)

Been there done that only it was 2 parallel runs of 500 MCM 125' long. Pull it in one day came back the next and was all gone. Whom ever did it wrapped a chain around it and drug it out with a truck, There was black marks on the pavement from them spinning tires doing it, and tore the **** out of the T box from the chain, and the PVC conduits. The boss was :vs_mad::vs_mad::vs_mad: GC said thats your problem not ours. boss ordered a new t box and wire, we broke up the slab and repaired the conduits. 2 weeks later we put it in again, only this time boss payed an apprentice to sit on it all night. The apprentice told us next morning an older model ford kept cursing around with no plate, they were back for more im guessing. After hearing that the Gc put security on the job site 6pm -6 am. The GC insurance did pay buy it was a fight


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

sprky69 said:


> GC said thats your problem not ours.


Wrong


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## zack.vernon (Jun 30, 2018)

I think from the sounds of It the best bet is just to re pull everything. Sadly a lot of the home runs are in the floor joist's that are now filled with HVAC ducting, so its going to be a bit of a pig to get everything done.
I don't deal with payments or anything like that im just a "foot solider" so no problems their.
Thanks for the help


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

I like the idea of making sure you are going to get paid first; get something signed. 

My contract states: THEFT/VANDALISM, ETC: "Company Name" shall not be responsible for fixtures and equipment supplied by others. "Company Name" shall not be liable for any losses of materials and equipment (supplied by "Company Name" or by customer) due to theft, damage, vandalism, etc. "Company Name" shall not be responsible for security of property or installed materials. 

As for me; I would probably see how the customer wants to handle it. They are the one paying the bill. That doesn't mean you do anything, it just means do they want to repair or replace everything. Again, I would make sure they signed off on any agreed upon repairs and try to limit your liability with language that might allow for unseen damage. Even performing an insulation test may not find some possible damage like a partially cut wire. 

I worked for a very large company in the past and when this happened we would repair the damage. At least that was my experience. (Maybe they did different things on different jobs.)

Final thought: I'd say it also depends on the extent of the damage... You'll have to make that call no matter what the customer wants.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Seen even the electrical panels destroyed trying to rip out the copper.
Seemed like an extra person had to there just to watch the material & tools just pulled out.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

zack.vernon said:


> I think from the sounds of It the best bet is just to re pull everything. Sadly a lot of the home runs are in the floor joist's that are now filled with HVAC ducting, so its going to be a bit of a pig to get everything done.
> I don't deal with payments or anything like that im just a "foot solider" so no problems their.
> Thanks for the help


It dont matter which hand it fall into as other members explain clear on this.,,

second thing is that ya should run the conductors after the plumming and HVAC are done with their rough in .,, that can be a other curpit due some HVAC crew dont care about others stuff just their own.,, so just a thought. 

that why I carefully choose where I run the homeruns first so other trades dont get in my way when I start pulling those conductors.

and yuh start from starch once you open up the walls if not drywall yet it will be little easier to do it. but double check everything with fine comb because some items will bite your arse if not carefull with it.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Paul S. said:


> I like the idea of making sure you are going to get paid first; get something signed.
> 
> My contract states: THEFT/VANDALISM, ETC: "Company Name" shall not be responsible for fixtures and equipment supplied by others. "Company Name" shall not be liable for any losses of materials and equipment (supplied by "Company Name" or by customer)* due to theft, damage, vandalism, etc. *"Company Name" shall not be responsible for security of property or installed materials.
> 
> ...


ad _"Acts of God" _into your clause as well ...oh and _"terrorism"_

Not kidding. Read your commercial Liability coverage and I'll bet 
"terrorism" is listed as *not covered.*

I'd check with Washington state law about materials 
after installation too.

Last time I had this discussion with my lawyer , he told me that
once the materials are on the building / installed ...they become
part of the building and owned by the owner , therefore the owners 
property insurance becomes responsible for claims ( under Ohio law).


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## zack.vernon (Jun 30, 2018)

We just went in with 4 guys and banged out the re-wire in a day, thankfully most of the switch legs where still intact, just the home runs and plug jumpers had to be re-run.
Thanks guys


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Rip it out and re pull 
Now tie all the hots to breakers . 
Then land all the neutrals on the neutral buss .
Now make sure everything has wire nuts on it . 
Last step run a hot to the neutral buss and energize .


They wont steal wire any more from you or anyone else . Trust me on this and i like to use a 100 amp breaker for this . 

Thats how you do it !

Just make sure you use an insulated neutral buss if resi .


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

catsparky1 said:


> Rip it out and re pull
> Now tie all the hots to breakers .
> Then land all the neutrals on the neutral buss .
> Now make sure everything has wire nuts on it .
> ...


Wouldnt running a hot to the neutral buss just pop that specific breaker? Are we supposed to pull the service neutral here? Wouldn’t some cuts go across 240V and some at 0V?

They seem to have figured out to turn the breakers off here, btw.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Paul S. said:


> I like the idea of making sure you are going to get paid first; get something signed.
> 
> My contract states: THEFT/VANDALISM, ETC: "Company Name" shall not be responsible for fixtures and equipment supplied by others. "Company Name" shall not be liable for any losses of materials and equipment (supplied by "Company Name" or by customer) due to theft, damage, vandalism, etc. "Company Name" shall not be responsible for security of property or installed materials.
> ....



one of the things that I look for in contracts (for myself) are phrases which lend themselves to unlimited use. I like to see my liability in terms of, for instance:


> shall not be liable for any losses to work in place for any reason, including but not limited to theft, damage, . . . etc.



you get the idea


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

wildleg said:


> Paul S. said:
> 
> 
> > I like the idea of making sure you are going to get paid first; get something signed.
> ...


I think I understand. I'll have to have a closer look at that and at my contract. Thank you!


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

matt1124 said:


> Wouldnt running a hot to the neutral buss just pop that specific breaker? Are we supposed to pull the service neutral here? Wouldn’t some cuts go across 240V and some at 0V?
> 
> They seem to have figured out to turn the breakers off here, btw.


Insulated neutral buss not the one in the panel .
The ground is hooked as normal . 
Lock the panel . 

The only problem is you WILL go to jail if you get busted . Don't ask me how I know this but I know this . At best the cutters being used will done with .


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

If you're gonna go through ALL that trouble might as well put a 480/277 volt step up transformer in too [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


catsparky1 said:


> Insulated neutral buss not the one in the panel .
> The ground is hooked as normal .
> Lock the panel .
> 
> The only problem is you WILL go to jail if you get busted . Don't ask me how I know this but I know this . At best the cutters being used will done with .


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