# randomly tripping AFCI



## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

My clients master bedroom AFCI ckt keeps tripping. Ive already taken a series of steps, including unplugging all electronic devices other than the tv and cable. I removed a number of CF bulbs that were on the ckt. I opened up all the outlets to check for loose wires. This breaker trips randomly at night when they are in bed watching TV with the ceiling fan on. Sometimes it trips, Sometimes it doesn't. So, i will be going once again to look at this issue. I was planning on replacing the Siemens AFCI breaker this time. There are 5 AFCI's in the house all on the same BUS on top of eachother. I was also going to split this up and utilize both bus bars and restack them so they are not stacked on top of eachother. Any other suggestions?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Yessir.... I have found about 99 out of every 100 mystery AFCI tripping problems with a megger. Divide and conquer from there.


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

I am a second year JM and havent had the pleasure of actually megging anything before. I will do some research about megging ...thanks


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

so i will be simply testing resistance of insulation?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

journeyman777 said:


> so i will be simply testing resistance of insulation?


...and the devices (switches and recs).

You'll find it. 99% chance. 

FYI shaded pole motors are seldom suspect, but fan speed controllers are.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't think having the arc fault breakers stacked in the panel would be an issue. At least I haven't had that problem. Any treadmills plugged in? If so, I've installed a good surge supressor (plug in style) for the treadmill. That's what an engineer at Eaton suggested. It did stop the nuisance AFCI tripping.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Yessir.... I have found about 99 out of every 100 mystery AFCI tripping problems with a megger. Divide and conquer from there.


And I have found 100% without a megger. Never has my situation been a defective device or wire. In fact in one case it was a bad connection by my helper- always blame the helper- the rest have either been ceiling fans, vacuums, electronic equipment or bad afci.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

To the OP-- I would try a different generation afci as the tv or the fan is likely the issue. I had a customer who said the afci would trip during programming of the dvd and that was the only times it would do it.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

AFCIs don't like motors with brushes, blow dryers, old fixtures with starters and absolutely hate old bar fridges..


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Just bite the bullet and purchase the Siemens diagnostic tool. It seems to work. It seems to me megging would work good also.
I wouldn't even replace the breaker because that is probably not the problem. Chances are there is a ground intermittently touching neutral somewhere.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Afci's can trip because the other buildings on the same service transformer have issues that make the afci think it is in your system. Love em.


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

this doesnt look promising , looks to me like it could literally be anything ! I will be losing money on this call!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Luckily (and only by pure luck it seems) I never used a brand of AFCI that suffered inherently from tripping when it was not supposed to. I always found a reason why they were tripping.


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

seems it would be logical that its either the TV equipment or ceiling fan. I will have the customer plug the TV into an extension cord and into another CKT and sleep with the ceiling fan off for a night, see what happens.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

journeyman777 said:


> seems it would be logical that its either the TV equipment or ceiling fan. I will have the customer plug the TV into an extension cord and into another CKT and sleep with the ceiling fan off for a night, see what happens.


It would seem logical until you consider that this equipment is also connected by wire, and uses a switch or receptacle to deliver power. Don't rule anything out until you test it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

If they have a multioutlet surge protector behind that tv , swap it out for new also. Those are rampant afci trippers. Especially the metal rectangular blue ones with brown outlets and an orange toggle switch/light that you see once in a while.


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

We have run 2 night trials with everything off and nothing plugged in and still got a trip! These things are annoying! I'm going this evening to install a new AFCI breaker.... I hope I won't be going back for the same issue after this.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

journeyman777 said:


> We have run 2 night trials with everything off and nothing plugged in and still got a trip! These things are annoying! I'm going this evening to install a new AFCI breaker.... I hope I won't be going back for the same issue after this.


I'm surprised you did not swap the breaker with a circuit that is not having a problem to see if the problem moved with the breaker or stayed with the circuit.

I also agree with sbrn33, if you are in this business (the AFCI troubleshooting), you might want to invest in a diagnostic tool made for this specific issue.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Luckily (and only by pure luck it seems) I never used a brand of AFCI that suffered inherently from tripping when it was not supposed to. I always found a reason why they were tripping.


Which brand is that Marc?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Most of my nusiance trips occur when Venus is in the southern sky......~CS~


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I'm surprised you did not swap the breaker with a circuit that is not having a problem to see if the problem moved with the breaker or stayed with the circuit.
> 
> 
> 
> Good call, that's something I should've done on the first visit!


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

I had 1 instance of an AFCI and the Smart meter strted to have a relationship whereby the breaker tripped every time the meter went to report. I know the utility eventually figured this out as it was a resonance issue with an elecrtonic component in the AFCI.. I think they just had to relocate the breaker to a differnt location in the panel.


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## journeyman777 (Mar 29, 2011)

Mshea said:


> I had 1 instance of an AFCI and the Smart meter strted to have a relationship whereby the breaker tripped every time the meter went to report. I know the utility eventually figured this out as it was a resonance issue with an elecrtonic component in the AFCI.. I think they just had to relocate the breaker to a differnt location in the panel.


That's exactly what I did... Installed new breaker , and moved it to the opposite bus bar... I'm hoping the problem is solved.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

every time the Bay City Rollers are on the radio it trips my afci.....~CS~


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> every time the Bay City Rollers are on the radio it trips my afci.....~CS~


The breaker is doing what it's suppose to do.:laughing:


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