# Local 3 " "



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Expect at least a 20+ page thread on this one.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Local 3... Is one better than Local 2.

Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Local 3... Is one better than Local 2.


Or is local 3 two worse than local one?



Oh wait ........... all 3 are unions ........... they all suck. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Or is local 3 two worse than local one?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait ........... all 3 are unions ........... they all suck. :laughing:


Union hating rabble rouser! :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Union hating rabble rouser! :laughing:



Don't call me brother ..........:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

We need a media outlet to get the attention of our local and a forum like this site offers, to get the attention of our leaders. Our members are hurting, there are many members that will not speak out freely at union meetings fearing they will be black listed, including myself. I have spoken out in many occasions, but feel it has hurt me more then benefit me. Our union doesn't play by the play book, so why should I?
I want all our members to feel the pain that the rest of us are experiencing. 
Make the playing field equal for every member. I dont give a S. H. I. T who you're related too and what your capable of. 
All this time I have spent out has only made me a stronger and a more independent individual trying to continual grow my business more and more each day to get back at the union for all the nonsense the union pulls. It wasnt always my first intention to be in business for myself but I need to survive. Doing electrical work is the only way I know how to make a living. 
Please don't put this against me.

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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> We need a media outlet to get the attention of our local and a forum like this site offers, to get the attention of our leaders. Our members are hurting, there are many members that will not speak out freely at union meetings fearing they will be black listed, including myself. I have spoken out in many occasions, but feel it has hurt me more then benefit me. Our union doesn't play by the play book, so why should I?
> I want all our members to feel the pain that the rest of us are experiencing.
> Make the playing field equal for every member. I dont give a S. H. I. T who you're related too and what your capable of.
> All this time I have spent out has only made me a stronger and a more independent individual trying to continual grow my business more and more each day to get back at the union for all the nonsense the union pulls. It wasnt always my first intention to be in business for myself but I need to survive. Doing electrical work is the only way I know how to make a living.
> ...


I think what you're doing is awesome. I just don't think it will amount to a damn in the end.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> We need a media outlet to get the attention of our local and a forum like this site offers, to get the attention of our leaders. Our members are hurting, there are many members that will not speak out freely at union meetings fearing they will be black listed, including myself. I have spoken out in many occasions, but feel it has hurt me more then benefit me. Our union doesn't play by the play book, so why should I?
> I want all our members to feel the pain that the rest of us are experiencing.
> Make the playing field equal for every member.* I dont give a S. H. I. T who you're related too and what your capable of. *
> All this time I have spent out has only made me a stronger and a more independent individual trying to continual grow my business more and more each day to get back at the union for all the nonsense the union pulls. It wasnt always my first intention to be in business for myself but I need to survive. Doing electrical work is the only way I know how to make a living.
> Please don't put this against me.


You had me until you added "what your capable of".

To me one of the only considerations should be "what your capable of", not how long you have been around or who you know.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BBQ said:


> You had me until you added "what your capable of".
> 
> To me one of the only considerations should be "what your capable of", not how long you have been around or who you know.


Yup. In my mind, that's the number one way the union lets down contractors. They have a workforce of equally trained men; men given equal advantages, but the actual capabilities of each man are remarkably different. We're required to pay essentially the same amount, regardless of capability.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> We need a media outlet to get the attention of our local and a forum like this site offers, to get the attention of our leaders. Our members are hurting, there are many members that will not speak out freely at union meetings fearing they will be black listed, including myself. I have spoken out in many occasions, but feel it has hurt me more then benefit me. Our union doesn't play by the play book, so why should I?
> I want all our members to feel the pain that the rest of us are experiencing.
> Make the playing field equal for every member. I dont give a S. H. I. T who you're related too and what your capable of.
> All this time I have spent out has only made me a stronger and a more independent individual trying to continual grow my business more and more each day to get back at the union for all the nonsense the union pulls. It wasnt always my first intention to be in business for myself but I need to survive. Doing electrical work is the only way I know how to make a living.
> ...


You're Local 3? I could've sworn you owned/ran your own non-union shop


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

GDK 13 said:


> You're Local 3? I could've sworn you owned/ran your own non-union shop


Both

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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Both
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Wow I'll have to get some popcorn on the way home from work. This is going to be one interesting thread. We have a union guy who openly admits he also runs a non union shop.........

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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Both
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


That's what I was getting at. :whistling2:


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

GDK 13 said:


> You're Local 3? I could've sworn you owned/ran your own non-union shop





Salvatoreg02 said:


> Both
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum





GDK 13 said:


> That's what I was getting at. :whistling2:


:blink: ....


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Wow I'll have to get some popcorn on the way home from work. This is going to be one interesting thread. We have a union guy who openly admits he also runs a non union shop.........
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


There are times I wonder if the non-union shops that are ran by union company's (signatory contractors, i.e. owner) are "Cash Only". 

Wouldn't they have to be.................

Yup.....


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## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Yup. In my mind, that's the number one way the union lets down contractors. They have a workforce of equally trained men; men given equal advantages, but the actual capabilities of each man are remarkably different. We're required to pay essentially the same amount, regardless of capability.


There is some interesting data in your post. 
1. Below standard employees are protected by the union, so they have it good and enjoy the ride. 
2. Standard employees don't see or have any problems, so they have it good and enjoy the ride. 
3. Above standard employees get sick and tired of not being allowed to excel, so they get fed up and leave for greener pastures.

Whats the health of the union in general as this cycle is repeated? 










Here's another one if you're scared of heritage.










I'm union, with no axe to grind on this other then to show that there is a trend that is, and has, been going on.

Take it for what its worth.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Demac said:


> There is some interesting data in your post.
> 1. Below standard employees are protected by the union, so they have it good and enjoy the ride.
> 2. Standard employees don't see or have any problems, so they have it good and enjoy the ride.
> 3. Above standard employees get sick and tired of not being allowed to excel, so they get fed up and leave for greener pastures.
> ...


So, what do we do to get membership back up again. Graph's are great but don't reflect many other factors. Like how many current members are there. Of course membership is down because tradesmen don't need union protection any longer. Big brother took care of that.

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

All union members suck. 















All open shop workers swallow.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> ... We're required to pay essentially the same amount, regardless of capability.


I have always believed that scale wage is the minimum your allowed to pay, not the maximum. I understand foreman's pay and shift differentials.
Could you not, if you desired, pay more to individual men you considered more valuable? 
I guess I could see where problems would arise, but would it be allowed contractually?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

K2500 said:


> I have always believed that scale wage is the minimum your allowed to pay, not the maximum. I understand foreman's pay and shift differentials.
> Could you not, if you desired, pay more to individual men you considered more valuable?
> I guess I could see where problems would arise, but would it be allowed contractually?


Yes, you can pay more.

The problem is that the minimum rate is what you would want to be paying that top tier guy. All the other guys should be paid much less.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Yes, you can pay more.
> 
> The problem is that the minimum rate is what you would want to be paying that top tier guy. All the other guys should be paid much less.


That is a problem.
Fire the crappy hands. I guess then you'd have lots of grievances to handle. Lose- Lose.

Well, there's my suggestion OP. Fix that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

K2500 said:


> That is a problem.
> Fire the crappy hands. I guess then you'd have lots of grievances to handle. Lose- Lose.
> 
> Well, there's my suggestion OP. Fix that.


No one cares about grievances, if you get fired twice you're out.

But the point is that these guys people are talking about aren't crappy and don't deserve to be fired, they are just not as good as the top guys. The issue is that they are all paid the same.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

K2500 said:


> That is a problem.
> Fire the crappy hands. I guess then you'd have lots of grievances to handle. Lose- Lose.
> 
> Well, there's my suggestion OP. Fix that.


I'll make the phone call tomorrow.

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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

HackWork said:


> No one cares about grievances, if you get fired twice you're out.
> 
> But the point is that these guys people are talking about aren't crappy and don't deserve to be fired, they are just not as good as the top guys. The issue is that they are all paid the same.


I see, that makes for an extraordinarily interesting problem. One for which I see no simple solution.

I will assume we are talking about the mediocre majority and the exceptional minority. So, anything requiring a vote is pretty much out.
The only thing left, that I see, is to pay the better men more and hope inflation does the rest. The problem is when the majority interprets that as money on the table and makes a move for it in the name of equality.
All men are not equal, their pay shouldn't be either. It removes the motivation to excel.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I'll make the phone call tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Are they gonna take care of it, or "take care" of it?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> Wow I'll have to get some popcorn on the way home from work. This is going to be one interesting thread. We have a union guy who openly admits he also runs a non union shop.........
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I'm in the same boat as Salvatore with the exception that I'm a self-employed non-union shop all the while maintaining my union dues to stay a member in good standing. I may not go back once my number is called. I may just stay self-employed. I'm kinda enjoying it.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I'm in the same boat as Salvatore with the exception that I'm a self-employed non-union shop all the while maintaining my union dues to stay a member in good standing. I may not go back once my number is called. I may just stay self-employed. I'm kinda enjoying it.


Do you plan on organizing at a later date?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

K2500 said:


> I have always believed that scale wage is the minimum your allowed to pay, not the maximum. I understand foreman's pay and shift differentials.
> Could you not, if you desired, pay more to individual men you considered more valuable?
> I guess I could see where problems would arise, but would it be allowed contractually?



Yes a contractor can and does offer certain things to certain employees above and beyond what they are required to under contract.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

steelersman said:


> I'm in the same boat as Salvatore with the exception that I'm a self-employed non-union shop all the while maintaining my union dues to stay a member in good standing. I may not go back once my number is called. I may just stay self-employed. I'm kinda enjoying it.


Makes two of us, I'm really enjoying the flexibility decent money and not having to hear about the same bbull**** everyday.

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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Makes two of us, I'm really enjoying the flexibility decent money and not having to hear about the same bbull**** everyday.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I love how you guys are union men, yet PROUD and boasting about doing the crap you're NOT supposed to be doing as union workers. Gimme a  break.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Makes two of us, I'm really enjoying the flexibility decent money and not having to hear about the same bbull**** everyday.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Glad you and Steelersman are going out and doing something! Almost like having a ticket west of the Rocky Mountains...Just because we are all in the same canoe club doesn't mean we wouldn't choose Freewill -



 
Make sure you're legal in your pursuits. hate to lose what you worked hard to get.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I thought you just bought a new Thermal camera? Why would a small union company do that?
You have the greatest workers, so just go out and get every job since you know they will get it done under the hours allotted.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

”We are the IBEW. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.”


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

GDK 13 said:


> I love how you guys are union men, yet PROUD and boasting about doing the crap you're NOT supposed to be doing as union workers. Gimme a  break.


I'm not collecting unemployment. So that being said, and considering that the union isn't supporting me while I'm "unemployed" I think I'm entitled to put food on the table. If you can't understand that then you must not have a wife or any kids to support.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Any union member who runs his own non union shop should be shot.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

steelersman said:


> I'm not collecting unemployment. So that being said, and considering that the union isn't supporting me while I'm "unemployed" I think I'm entitled to put food on the table. If you can't understand that then you must not have a wife or any kids to support.


What I understand is that if a contractor decided to break union rules you would not put up with any BS excuses, you would want them held to the the rules.

So what I have learned from you is that you are two faced.

Support your family in a way that does not break the agreements you made or dump out of the union.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I'm not collecting unemployment. So that being said, and considering that the union isn't supporting me while I'm "unemployed" I think I'm entitled to put food on the table. If you can't understand that then you must not have a wife or any kids to support.


I think you are stabbing your "brothers" in the back, and you are trying to get the best of both worlds...


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> What I understand is that if a contractor decided to break union rules you would not put up with any BS excuses, you would want them held to the the rules.
> 
> So what I have learned from you is that you are two faced.
> 
> Support your family in a way that does not break the agreements you made or dump out of the union.


I have never been a stickler to the union rules to a T. And neither has my former employer.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I think you are stabbing your "brothers" in the back, and you are trying to get the best of both worlds...



I don't know what I'm getting from the union right now that I'm not working for them but yet still paying my quarterly dues.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Is it right when the union jumps over you and sends the next guy out?
Is it right when a contractor closes shop the workers get priority over you?
Is it right when the **** hits the fan, you're BA tells you nothing I can do. 
Wake up guys, the union as showed there colors now it's time to show mine. If, you can't understand, oh well!! I'm not here to impress any of you!! I'm doing what's right for me, may not be right for you!

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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Is it right when the union jumps over you and sends the next guy out?
> Is it right when a contractor closes shop the workers get priority over you?
> Is it right when the **** hits the fan, you're BA tells you nothing I can do.
> Wake up guys, the union as showed there colors now it's time to show mine. If, you can't understand, oh well!! I'm not here to impress any of you!! I'm doing what's right for me, may not be right for you!
> ...


You're either strange, or you're not listening. Point is burning the candle on both ends is wrong. If everything you say is true, then quit the union. Right now, you are just using and taking advantage of them


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're either strange, or you're not listening. Point is burning the candle on both ends is wrong. If everything you say is true, then quit the union. Right now, you are just using and taking advantage of them


I never said I was going back, I'm paying my own medical benefits as of right now, so, how am I taking advantage please explain. I posted the thread hoping I would get positive feed back and of course negative criticism from the many local 3 members. In hopes of hearing good things. But, everyone keeps saying the same jargon about how " we" are going against our collective bargaining agreement, what about them the "union" when they are presumed of doing something wrong it seems that it's just swept under the rug. The same way our former BM had to resign in lieu of getting convicted and being associated with MaColochin the former Afl CIO president.

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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

GDK 13 said:


> I love how you guys are union men, yet PROUD and boasting about doing the crap you're NOT supposed to be doing as union workers. Gimme a  break.


What should you do if the if the contractors aren't following the rules? We have fireman working, shoppies staying home pass there furlough time and people being cherrypicked of the list.


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Any union member who runs his own non union shop should be shot.


Should we shoot the contractor that runs a split shop to?


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Sparky3 said:


> What should you do if the if the contractors aren't following the rules? We have fireman working, shoppies staying home pass there furlough time and people being cherrypicked of the list.


Sounds alot more like an open shop arraignment.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


Salvatoreg02 said:



Makes two of us, I'm really enjoying the flexibility decent money and not having to hear about the same bbull**** everyday.

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Click to expand...

*That makes 3 of us! 
I am tired of the politics. Last 1/4 I almost did not write the check. My family cannot live like this no more and I'm not loosing everything I worked for my whole life just to say I was loyal. The best thing I ever did was get my License. I saw the writing on the wall 4 years ago and started to prepare for this situation. I am not afraid anymore and I am moving forward with my Company. 

As far as Union Politics goes you will never change the machine. The machine is too big and you will have to destroy it in order to rebuild it. Things will never be the same because people are not the same. Come on... look at what goes on at the jobs. Members putting down other members, Apprentices running work, Apprentices disrespectful to the older guys, forman on incentive pay programs, people jumping the books. Of course there are some real good Brothers and Sisters out there too. 

I have been to meetings at Jewel Ave. and you are right nobody complains.
Over here some of the members say what is on their mind and are labeled trouble makers. The problem is 50%+ of the time they are right and with no other response are told to just told to sit down. Nothing ever gets done. You speak to a B/A and he will tell you my hands are tied. They forgot they work for the membership.

I also want to add I'm tired of being trapped in a High Rise for 8 hours a day and traveling 3+ hours to get there. I'm so much more happier now doing my own thing. I will miss the high profile jobs but then again I got beat up pretty bad over the years on those big jobs. Lots of wear and tear on the body.

I was in local 3. When I first started in this trade I was in the Sign & Street Lighting Division. I worked for Broadway Maintenance and Welsbach Electric in the 80's. 2.5 years later I quit to take various jobs on Long Island doing all aspects of (Non-Union) Electrical Construction. 12 years after that I moved here and joined the Union again. It was a good run but it is over and the sooner I realized that it is over the sooner I started moving my Company forward. 

To be completely honest I felt like I was more part of the company I worked for when I was Non-union instead of feeling like a number or a body with the Union. I have met some awesome brothers along the way and will always respect the I.B.E.W. but I'm sorry I have to do what I have to do for my family.

My advise to all you young guys Union or Non-Union is GET YOUR LICENSE ASAP no one can ever take that away from you. 

BTW. I was out of work for 22 months. then went back to the Union for 5 months and got laid off again now I'm looking at 3-4 years before I would ever see a real job. Rant over.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

So, what do we do now. Continue in our new found success. Or be at the mercy of the union?

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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> So, what do we do now. Continue in our new found success. Or be at the mercy of the union?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Hey sal did you leave on good terms when you got your license... I heard they will let members hold a license but only for a period of time then you have inform them of your intentions... Whether your going to go out on your own, go union or shelf it.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Sparky3 said:


> Hey sal did you leave on good terms when you got your license... I heard they will let members hold a license but only for a period of time then you have inform them of your intentions... Whether your going to go out on your own, go union or shelf it.


I have actually sent them a copy of my license. I still pay my dues so I'm still in good standing. As long as you stay away from large commercial jobs you'll have no conflict, just let someone else you know file the job. When the sh....it hits the fan then make your decision.

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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Island Electric said:


> *As far as Union Politics goes you will never change the machine. The machine is too big and you will have to destroy it in order to rebuild it.* Things will never be the same because people are not the same. Come on... look at what goes on at the jobs. Members putting down other members, Apprentices running work, Apprentices disrespectful to the older guys, forman on incentive pay programs, people jumping the books. Of course there are some real good Brothers and Sisters out there too.
> 
> I have been to meetings at Jewel Ave.* and you are right nobody complains.*
> 
> *Over here some of the members say what is on their mind and are labeled trouble makers*. The problem is 50%+ of the time they are right and with no other response are told to just told to sit down. Nothing ever gets done. You speak to a B/A and he will tell you my hands are tied. They forgot they work for the membership..


The bold is 100% on the mark. Read the post from the love it or shut up union members on this froum. They'd nail you to the wall, never admit there are problems, shut up and swallow the poison.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

I guess the brothers are beginning to feel the crunch, since there hasn't been much work lately.

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## Hire me please (Jul 15, 2010)

considering the work outlook, you guys think i'll end up being an 8yr apprentice instead of the usual 4-5 year apprentice at this point?


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hire me please said:


> considering the work outlook, you guys think i'll end up being an 8yr apprentice instead of the usual 4-5 year apprentice at this point?


96 months

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## Hire me please (Jul 15, 2010)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> 96 months


phew.. Here i am thinking that i am going to be an apprentice for an unfathomable 8 years when in reality its only going to be an easy breezy 96 months.. thanks sal!

In all seriousness though, what is the likelihood I'm going to make it to journeyman in a reasonable amount of time? Considering I have a good (unrelated) job right now, the doubts are starting to creep in....


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hire me please said:


> phew.. Here i am thinking that i am going to be an apprentice for an unfathomable 8 years when in reality its only going to be an easy breezy 96 months.. thanks sal!
> 
> In all seriousness though, what is the likelihood I'm going to make it to journeyman in a reasonable amount of time? Considering I have a good (unrelated) job right now, the doubts are starting to creep in....


The program is exactly 66 months 5.5 yrs. Good behavior should get you out in 96 months.

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hire me please said:


> phew.. Here i am thinking that i am going to be an apprentice for an unfathomable 8 years when in reality its only going to be an easy breezy 96 months.. thanks sal!
> 
> In all seriousness though, what is the likelihood I'm going to make it to journeyman in a reasonable amount of time? Considering I have a good (unrelated) job right now, the doubts are starting to creep in....


Do your self a favor go thru the M division if you can, and learn as much as can from others. If your above the age of 24

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## Hire me please (Jul 15, 2010)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Do your self a favor go thru the M division if you can, and learn as much as can from others. If your above the age of 24
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I am above 24... but heading into the Elevator Division... better or worse off?


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hire me please said:


> I am above 24... but heading into the Elevator Division... better or worse off?


It really depends on you, both fields have pros and cons. Less chances of being out in the cold in the winter. E division is def much more dirtier then the A division.

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> It really depends on you, both fields have pros and cons. Less chances of being out in the cold in the winter. E division is def much more dirtier then the A division.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


 The E division def as less guys laid off

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## JayWater (Apr 25, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> We need a media outlet to get the attention of our local and a forum like this site offers, to get the attention of our leaders. Our members are hurting, there are many members that will not speak out freely at union meetings fearing they will be black listed, including myself. I have spoken out in many occasions, but feel it has hurt me more then benefit me. Our union doesn't play by the play book, so why should I?
> I want all our members to feel the pain that the rest of us are experiencing.
> Make the playing field equal for every member. I dont give a S. H. I. T who you're related too and what your capable of.
> All this time I have spent out has only made me a stronger and a more independent individual trying to continual grow my business more and more each day to get back at the union for all the nonsense the union pulls. It wasnt always my first intention to be in business for myself but I need to survive. Doing electrical work is the only way I know how to make a living.
> ...


I took the test for the local 3 2 years ago and passed did the interview and everything.. I dont know if I want to even go union if they call me.. Im not working steady now but alot more than most of my local 3 friends im making $20+ an hour.. If the union ever calls they're starting me off as a 1st year apprentice making $11 which is pretty ridiculous.. I know a couple guys who got out of local 3 .. Id rather work, get my license and take my chances with my own company.. From what i hear on this forum and other poeple is that alot of union members will throw you under the bus to make themselves look better.. They have poeple liek that at every company but from what I hear local 3 is alot worse.. Not to the mention the horror stories of poeple not getting what they're supposed to out of their pensions 

Also to the guys running non-union shops while being a union member is against the rules so i see. .. But When I found out in this industry non-union or union.. that you can get laid off quite a bit.. I did the smart thing and went out and got My CDL license .. just cuz u get laid off from union doesnt mean theres always electrical work.. and if your breaking the union rules because u have no other skills.. i think the best thing to do is Learn some other skills.. and get some qualifications besides electrical work.. we all gotta survive.. im 24 years old with a 2 year old daughter and a ton of bills to pay so i hear what you're saying


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

JayWater said:


> I took the test for the local 3 2 years ago and passed did the interview and everything.. I dont know if I want to even go union if they call me.. Im not working steady now but alot more than most of my local 3 friends im making $20+ an hour.. If the union ever calls they're starting me off as a 1st year apprentice making $11 which is pretty ridiculous.. I know a couple guys who got out of local 3 .. Id rather work, get my license and take my chances with my own company.. From what i hear on this forum and other poeple is that alot of union members will throw you under the bus to make themselves look better.. They have poeple liek that at every company but from what I hear local 3 is alot worse.. Not to the mention the horror stories of poeple not getting what they're supposed to out of their pensions
> 
> Also to the guys running non-union shops while being a union member is against the rules so i see. .. But When I found out in this industry non-union or union.. that you can get laid off quite a bit.. I did the smart thing and went out and got My CDL license .. just cuz u get laid off from union doesnt mean theres always electrical work.. and if your breaking the union rules because u have no other skills.. i think the best thing to do is Learn some other skills.. and get some qualifications besides electrical work.. we all gotta survive.. im 24 years old with a 2 year old daughter and a ton of bills to pay so i hear what you're saying


 This thread was intended for members of local 3 or other union members that have similar stories or issues with there local.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## DoingItMyWay (May 29, 2011)

Well there certainly is quite a bit of information in this post. Honestly, it's pretty sad to see people still defending Local 3 at this point considering the sad state it's in.

Let's start with the BS politics... I'll give you an example of how Local 3 continues to shoot itself in the foot. I was working at the PM on a job. I happened to be walking through the kitchen and the sub-foreman running that crew stopped me to ask a question. He wanted guidance on the wiring of the kitchen panel contactor and how the shunts should be wired to the exhaust fans. I spend about an hour going over it with him so that he would be able to do it himself and more importantly so that he could teach his crew. How am I rewarded for this sharing of knowledge and betterment of the crew? I get a call from the shop's super telling me that the shop steward on the job saw me speaking with the men and that it wasn't allowed. It didn't matter what I was talking to him about, only that I needed to speak to the General Foreman only. I responded with a simple 'you're welcome' and hung up on him.

Next, we move on to the quality of the workforce. Sure, all members are afforded the same education in the school (which I once taught in). What they learn in school is great but really only amounts to about 25% of what they need to know in the real world. The on the job part of the apprenticeship is the meat and potatoes of what creates a successful electrician. The fact that 90% of the mechanics I see on jobs use their apprentices as gophers to fetch materials and coffee tells me that the overall quality of the workforce is in for a sharp decline. When you have union jacks insisting that it takes 2 men to install 3/4" conduit in a straight line on an existing trapeze, the contractors can't possibly turn a profit. I mean seriously, when contractors use .07 hours a foot for estimating purposes and you have 2 men doing the install, you're essentially doubling the cost of the job without the contractor being in any way compensated for it. There are absolutely a handful of motivated and skilled men and women that do not in any way conform to that mentality but they are a scarce minority.

Motivation? What motivation? I mean how can you be motivated to do good work when you have to take insane amounts of furlough? So you do a good or even great job for your employer but your union makes you sit home 1/3 of the year. And sure, it puts guys to work for 1/2 year at a pop but what's THEIR motivation? No matter how hard they work, the odds are that they're going right back to the hall at the end of their ticket.

Wage scale... Not sure how many of you folks out there realize this but it costs a contractor almost $100 / hr for each electrician. $100 AN HOUR!! You do the math! Sure it's all good when there's work and nobody sitting on the bench but when was the last time that was the case?? I know nobody wants to get pay cuts but if the cost of doing business was lower then the union shops could be more competitive in the market and get a larger share of the work. If the scale was lower, the contractors would be able to pay the men and women who excel more than the mediocre mechanics and more people would be employed.

My grandfather, who was one of the original organizers of Local 3, is likely turning over in his grave with the current state of the union. It's a shame that all of the 'management' in the union is littered with politicians.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something so I'll chime in again when I'm a bit more awake but I wanted to put my $0.02 in while the thoughts were fresh in my mind.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

DoingItMyWay said:


> Well there certainly is quite a bit of information in this post. Honestly, it's pretty sad to see people still defending Local 3 at this point considering the sad state it's in.
> 
> Let's start with the BS politics... I'll give you an example of how Local 3 continues to shoot itself in the foot. I was working at the PM on a job. I happened to be walking through the kitchen and the sub-foreman running that crew stopped me to ask a question. He wanted guidance on the wiring of the kitchen panel contactor and how the shunts should be wired to the exhaust fans. I spend about an hour going over it with him so that he would be able to do it himself and more importantly so that he could teach his crew. How am I rewarded for this sharing of knowledge and betterment of the crew? I get a call from the shop's super telling me that the shop steward on the job saw me speaking with the men and that it wasn't allowed. It didn't matter what I was talking to him about, only that I needed to speak to the General Foreman only. I responded with a simple 'you're welcome' and hung up on him.
> 
> ...



Wow excellent post .:thumbsup:

WELCOME to the forum enjoy..:thumbup::thumbup:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Is it right when the union jumps over you and sends the next guy out?
> Is it right when a contractor closes shop the workers get priority over you?
> Is it right when the **** hits the fan, you're BA tells you nothing I can do.
> Wake up guys, the union as showed there colors now it's time to show mine. If, you can't understand, oh well!! I'm not here to impress any of you!! I'm doing what's right for me, may not be right for you!
> ...


So you figured out that the IBEW is like any other group. Full of self serving people. "Brother" only applies if they like you and you're on the "A" list. I don't care who I work for, union, non-union, whom ever is paying the bills.


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