# Safety First! Let's Talk Ladders



## CWL (Jul 7, 2020)

At an OSHA 10 hour course I went to one of the instructors gave a quick way to check the angle of an extension ladder. Standing straight with your feet at the base of the ladder extend your arms straight out. The part of the ladder at shoulder height should be about at the end of your finger tips. Obviously this will very a bit with different body types, but it gives an idea what to look for.


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

The rule of thumb: 1 in 4 - 1 foot out for every 4 feet of rise...If you can't manage this arrangement, get someone to hold the ladder. If no one's around, go get someone. The injury you prevent or the life you save just might be yours! But seriously, I don't ever recall someone getting hurt/killed falling from a ladder. The sudden stop at the bottom, well....


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Generally speaking, I don't think much of OSHA but back in the 70s when I started in the construction trades (before OSHA), the ladders we had were usually in very poor shape. Old wooded ones often with a rung missing, loose and wobbly, aluminum extension ladders bent to the point they could not be retracted; in general, fairly hazardous. 

Since OSHA, ladders these days are almost always in near-perfect condition.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

I seem to recall from a training session that osha allows up to 60' ladder height without fall arrest/ restraint. Other than that, I'm pretty much onboard with ladder safety requirements.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I don't care what anyone says. "Hopping" on the ladder to move it over a foot or two works well to save all the hassle of going down the ladder, moving it, and then going back up again.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I don't care what anyone says. "Hopping" on the ladder to move it over a foot or two works well to save all the hassle of going down the ladder, moving it, and then going back up again.


Lol .... I've done that many times 😂

I actually fell off a ladder last Thursday. Was on my SIL's roof helping him clean the chimney.
I have a habit of stepping off the ladder from the second rung ... just a habit I guess ??

Chimney sweeper in one hand, screwdriver in the other hand .... get near the bottom of the ladder and did the 'step of the second rung' .... turns out I was still on the third rung .... down I went 

I'd like to say I learned my lesson, but ........ .


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

WannabeTesla said:


> I seem to recall from a training session that osha allows up to 60' ladder height without fall arrest/ restraint. Other than that, I'm pretty much onboard with ladder safety requirements.


Interesting. For just visual inspection purposes? Or working on a ladder at that height?

My workplace's latest interpretations are fall restraint/arrest is required when the 'work' you are doing is 10' or more above grade. So that JB you're splicing on 10' shop ceiling with a 6' step ladder.... gotta be harnessed and tied off. 

My safety authority's wording is to prevent a fall of 10' or more... and nothing specific about fall-restraint/arrest for ladders.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

These are OSHA approved to lean.

No reason to buy any other kind of A frame


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)




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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I don't agree with Rowe here. Safety first doesn't mean you don't work. It just means you think critically about the safest way to perform a task and work to improve means and methods.

When management says safety ultimately falls on the individual, but does little to help facilitate a better work environment through providing better tools or processes they're just wiping their hands of their responsibility. 

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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

TGGT said:


> *Safety first* doesn't mean you don't work. It just means you think critically about the safest way to perform a task and work to improve means and methods.


That's the crux of the problem with the expression. 1 is the task. 2 is a reason to do it. 3 is... think critically about the safest way to perform a task and work to improve means and methods.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

u2slow said:


> Interesting. For just visual inspection purposes? Or working on a ladder at that height?
> 
> My workplace's latest interpretations are fall restraint/arrest is required when the 'work' you are doing is 10' or more above grade. So that JB you're splicing on 10' shop ceiling with a 6' step ladder.... gotta be harnessed and tied off.
> 
> My safety authority's wording is to prevent a fall of 10' or more... and nothing specific about fall-restraint/arrest for ladders.


I don’t think there are any fall restraint systems for portable ladders just 3 points of contact when ascending and descending. 


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

u2slow said:


> Interesting. For just visual inspection purposes? Or working on a ladder at that height?
> 
> My workplace's latest interpretations are fall restraint/arrest is required when the 'work' you are doing is 10' or more above grade. So that JB you're splicing on 10' shop ceiling with a 6' step ladder.... gotta be harnessed and tied off.
> 
> My safety authority's wording is to prevent a fall of 10' or more... and nothing specific about fall-restraint/arrest for ladders.


That's overkill. A ladder is consider a work platform.

If you would need a lift to safely install a tie off point then you might as well just use a lift.

What kind of lanyard are you using? At least a retractable I hope, because if it's the shock absorbing kind you're going to hit the floor snug in a harness.

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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

TGGT said:


> That's overkill. *A ladder is consider a work platform.*


Ahhh! That is a key interpretation.

It is overkill. I'm not using a lanyard unless I can fall 10', and then yes, its a shock absorbing one.

A lift is never available. (remote location, no rental place, no budget, no storage for equipment... the list goes on.) Lots of policies and politics over simply greasing equipment I tell ya...


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Now are all these ladders AFCI protected? If not what if wires contact the individual aluminum step, starts a fire, now you are attached to a lanyard with a fire below. Sounds dangerous to me. We need more regulations.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Now are all these ladders AFCI protected? If not what if wires contact the individual aluminum step, starts a fire, now you are attached to a lanyard with a fire below. Sounds dangerous to me. We need more regulations.


We could simply follow what's already on the books. OSHA has a section dedicated to the controlling of hazardous energy.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

I think one of the keys is the difference between fixed and portable ladders. I don't have the course handbook but a quick search turned up that no fall protection is required on any portable ladder (per osha) of any height when that ladder is being used properly. It really struck me and i asked the instructor to elaborate and basically there was nothing to elaborate.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

Also, everyone knows that it's much gooder to push the top of the ladder off the building and walk it over one foot at a time vs. hopping it over. Geez... i thought i was in roofertalk.com for a moment there.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

I work on jobs with different trades and even same trade but different companies. There are ladders everywhere on site; all with names written on them. I don’t mind other trades using my ladders (except fitters and painters for obvi reasons). Same with lifts and other equipment. 

Two separate lawsuits happened with companies in my area:

Painter v GC. Painter used the GC’s ladder by leaning it against the wall and climbing up 8’ to paint piping in the ceiling. The foot of the ladder slipped out and the painter was injured. GC was sued and had to cover workers comp and all legal and medical bills related to accident. Painting contractor paid 0.

Painter v Mechanical Contractor. Painter went into job site dumpster and used a discarded broken ladder to paint after regular site hours. Painter fell and was badly injured. Mechanical contractor was fined 80k by OSHA. 


LOCK LADDERS UP WHEN NOT IN USE. 
DESTROY AND RENDER INOPERABLE LADDERS THAT ARE DISCARDED.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Stand back: True story coming up: When I first got my Jman card years and years ago , I got a job on a large Army base located convieniently only a few miles away from Sunset Beach Hawaii where I was living . The company's name was Triax. They closed up shop long ago. I was given a ten foot wood ladder to use to work on that instead of the metal folding connection arms between the step side and the support side , (Those were gone already that ladder was so old and beat up) instead, they had run stranded twelve back and forth across the same spans in a figure 8 and stapled them to the wood of the side of the ladder. It would fold up nice like a new ladder , and once you spread the two sides it was actually not super duper bad. So I used that ladder for a whole stinking year at least if not longer. In those days there was no such animal as a safety officer, not in the company or in the US Army side of things. I would frequently even stand on the top of it to attach high up runs of conduit and make connections in suspended lights while up on the top. I didn't care a single bit cause I was getting me some Davis Bacon wages. The bosses used to laugh and say that's why we hired a surfer. Never fell. Never had any accident on it. Whoop Whoop.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I remember being 18 on a job with several other 18 year olds. We were trimming out a house and had some second story floods to install, only no extension ladder.

Well we devised a super awesome plan to stack a couple of A frame ladders and strap them together. It worked, I didn’t die, but I am still surprised I didn’t.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Lol, I have done that same thing a dozen times............


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Note to the young kids who feel invincible : I have also crashed to the ground a couple of times , one I had several stitches on the back of my head (deadliest place to hit) and the other resulted in 4 broke ribs. There is a whole lot of good common sense in this featured article..... just sayin...... But on the other hand , once a repeat offender,,,
you know I am bound to keep .......... well anyway......


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

My first boss said to me starting out....
"You fall off the ladder your fired, when you land you're trespassing".

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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I have one of those Little Giant King Kombo ladders and never noticed until this morning that all the safety stickers are on the inside frame of the ladder. This is genius, they are not exposed to the sun as much and damage from sliding a ladder in/out of a van. Looked at my Werner... 1-2 year old ladders the safety stickers are toast. They do it on purpose.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Do the stickers say "may cause cancer" ??


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

emtnut said:


> Do the stickers say "may cause cancer" ??


I write that with a sharpie on everything, even my wife and kids. Safety first.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Switched said:


> I write that with a sharpie on everything, even my wife and kids. Safety first.


But ... Sharpie's cause cancer too !


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

emtnut said:


> But ... Sharpie's cause cancer too !


Well the jury is still out on whether cancer even exists.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

TGGT said:


> Well the jury is still out on whether cancer even exists.


It's not a tooma...


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## Lightsmith (Oct 8, 2010)

The best ladder by far is the discontinued Little Giant 12580 ultra step fiberglass ladder that adjusts to be a 5 ft, 6 ft, 7 ft, or 8 ft step ladder. The two legs on one end adjust separately from the tripod like third leg and so it works great on stairs. I can adjust it for the height of the ceiling in a room and for doing outdoor work where the ground is not level. It supports 300 lbs but weighs only 34 lbs and is much lighter than my mulitpurpose ladders by 10 to 20 pounds. I wanted to buy more of these or something equivalent but such a ladder is no longer in production.


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