# Looking for a better way



## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

We have been installing flush mounted fluorescent lights by mounting an octagonal box, installing an octagonal box cover with 1/2 KO, then using a chase nipple with bushing and hanging the light with toggle bolts. After the last house I was thinking that there has to be a better way to do this. 

Have any tips on how to hang them?


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## Idaho Abe (Nov 28, 2007)

*Junction Box covers*

Be careful some inspectors might see that chase nipple in the 1/2 KO as a violation. since you have made the box inaccessible


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Why use a box at all? 

The ballast enclosure should be fine. Terminate the MC or NM cable with a box connector right into the back side of the fixture same as you would do with a lay-in.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Idaho Abe said:


> Be careful some inspectors might see that chase nipple in the 1/2 KO as a violation. since you have made the box inaccessible


Never thought of it that way. I would leave enough slack on the wire to wire it in the fixture instead of the jbox so the fixture would not have to be removed to work on the wiring. Looking at it from your point of view, I would also consider it a violation also.



BryanMD said:


> Why use a box at all?
> 
> The ballast enclosure should be fine. Terminate the MC or NM cable with a box connector right into the back side of the fixture same as you would do with a lay-in.


Was thinking about it at work and came up with what you just said. Considering I mount disconnects the same way, I should be able to do it with the fixture. 

Thank you both for your input.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Here we can just stub the NM directly into the fixtures. 

I have heard of red tags because the wire had to be 90 degree in some cases.

Also, use toggles to help with installation but you SHOULD hit some lumber to mount them securely.

When I first syarted in tract housing in the 70's, we used toggle bolts only. I wire a house for an OLD union sparky and he insisted on screws into something substantial. His reasoning was that if there was a roof leak, the drywall wouldn't hold the fixture.

Soon after that I installed a long row of 8' strips in a restaurant kitchen and was thinking of the old guy as I screwed all the fixtures to the joists. That weekend a plumber left a hole in the roof and it rained like hell.

My fixtures held the drywall in place :thumbup: and the GC was pleased (with me anyway).


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## Percheron49 (Jan 26, 2008)

*Another Grey Area*



Idaho Abe said:


> Be careful some inspectors might see that chase nipple in the 1/2 KO as a violation. since you have made the box inaccessible


OK, the box isn't inaccessible because the building materials don't have to be disturbed to access the box. See NEC Art. 100 General Definitions.

On the other hand if the inspector pushes the issue, the romex could be classed as accessible due to the gap between the base of the fluorescent fixture and the ceiling. The gap is found only on newer fluorescent fixtures and was incorporated into the box design to allow for heat dissipation in the event of a ballast failure - prevent the house from burning down. There is no real way to isolate the area except by the chase nipple method.

My preference is half-way between the extremes. An octagonal box in the ceiling and the romex with sheathing intact going into the fixture through a strain relief (romex clamp). This allows the fixture to be changed from a fluorescent to a conventional incandescent or ceiling fan (load rated box) without having to go back and put the box in afterwards. A typical DIY'er would leave the wire live and cut it while sawing the sheetrock to install the box - if they put a box in at all. I actually saw a ceiling fan hung by a cable and tied to an eyebolt and wired directly in without a junction box.


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## rbj (Oct 23, 2007)

*fan-lighting box support*

Check out [314.27(D)] box support and [422.18] fan support (70lb) for ceiling hung luminaires, fans. As far as NM ceiling loops to romex connector on the lamping housing, a simple sheetrock hole stubout with a hole large enough for a clamp clearance is still legal. see article [334.30(C)] 'without separate outlet box.' Toggles are passe, new sheetrock molly screws are good for up to 1 x4 fluorescents. Using screws into ceiling joists are still the best stable method. rbj (Illustrated Resi Wiring by Electricians and Contractors. RBJ Publications)


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