# Help plz! Panel full need space



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

nu-image said:


> On my initial walkthrough i looked at the clients old fed pi. and it had 4 tabs left, being an ass i assumed there were spares. Now that im alomst done i need 3 spares, i open the panel and voila, full. I noticed they have a spa jacuzzi and bathroom plugs on afi breakers. I was thinking of removing both of those and simply replacing the plugs with GFCI plugs. leaving me 2 spaces. I think i could find somewhere else for the 3rd space. any thoughts? all help greatly appreciated :thumbsup:


It maybe a good idea next time to open the panel and check it before you start running new circuits.

And no you cannot replace AFCI Breakers with GFCI receptacles.


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## nu-image (May 29, 2013)

Yeah I know lesson learned, guess I'm heading to the sub panel in the basement suite


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

You have to be very careful with the Federal Panels.
The really old ones don't take narrow breakers in every spot. On some models, you can only put 2 pole breakers in the middle on each side.
Then in the mid 80's or so, they had a cover which fit 2 different buss sizes.
Many an electrician has glanced at the panel and thought there were spaces, when all they were was fillers, no buss.


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## nu-image (May 29, 2013)

Exactly what I did god I don't like federal


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

nu-image said:


> Yeah I know lesson learned, guess I'm heading to the sub panel in the basement suite


Well good luck and welcome to ET...:thumbsup:


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## wing nut (May 29, 2013)

if you can find tandem breakers for that panel, you can install some to free up space. i, personally, hate them...but they ARE a feasible solution...


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## nu-image (May 29, 2013)

I don't think stab lok makes tandems, I could of sworn I've seen one though. I will inquire tomorrow unless someone here is of the wiser


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

wing nut said:


> if you can find tandem breakers for that panel, you can install some to free up space. i, personally, hate them...but they ARE a feasible solution...


Tandems have to go in specific spots per each manufacturer. I've also never seen an FPE tandem.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

wcord said:


> You have to be very careful with the Federal Panels.
> The really old ones don't take narrow breakers in every spot. On some models, you can only put 2 pole breakers in the middle on each side.
> Then in the mid 80's or so, they had a cover which fit 2 different buss sizes.
> Many an electrician has glanced at the panel and thought there were spaces, when all they were was fillers, no buss.


Sq d 6 or 8 circ horizontal are like that 2 more blanks in cover than buss bar!


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Quote a panel replacement next time!


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## nu-image (May 29, 2013)

Told him now would be a good time, he said "why fox it of it ain't broke son" I didn't have much of a comeback after that stubborn remark


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

nu-image said:


> Told him now would be a good time, he said "why fox it of it ain't broke son" I didn't have much of a comeback after that stubborn remark


Ask him if he changes the oil in his car before the engine seizes up. Or does he wait til its junk, and then fixes it.


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## wing nut (May 29, 2013)

thegoldenboy said:


> Tandems have to go in specific spots per each manufacturer. I've also never seen an FPE tandem.


Yea i wasn't sure to be honest, hence why i said "if". I don't like tandems anyhow, honestly.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> It maybe a good idea next time to open the panel and check it before you start running new circuits.
> 
> And no you cannot replace AFCI Breakers with GFCI receptacles.


I agree with the checking before working for sure, but i think he meant gfi breakers ("spa jacuzzi and bathroom plugs on afi breakers")... so he could probably replace with receptacles for those 2.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I thought the federal tandems were the thins and usually you could stick a one inch or two thins in most spaces.


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## sparkie2010 (Sep 15, 2009)

Why would you be attempting to install circuit in a FP panel ? 

Change that thing out.


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## Glennsparky (Nov 30, 2011)

nu-image said:


> ...I noticed they have a spa jacuzzi and bathroom plugs on afi breakers. ...


You sure those are afi and not GFI?

Anyway, does Canada accept UL? Here's an AFCI receptacle.
http://www.true-safe.com/prod-afci - outlet.html

Install a small panel nearby. Move two circuits to that panel. Then feed that panel from the two spaces you just opened up.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

They must be GFI's. Arc fault breakers for bathrooms and tubs doesn't make any sense.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

99cents said:


> They must be GFI's. Arc fault breakers for bathrooms and tubs doesn't make any sense.


Don't worry.... that's coming soon to a codebook near you. :laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

This is why i stock old breakers ,saved from upgrades, especially those hard to find ones.....~CS~


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

sparkie2010 said:


> Why would you be attempting to install circuit in a FP panel ?
> 
> Change that thing out.


We will usually refuse to install new circuits in zinsco or fpe panels. Very rare occasions and very reluctantly.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Try seeing if there is an old dryer ckt dp breaker not being used. Sometimes you get lucky when they convert the dryer to gas or even oven.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> This is why i stock old breakers ,saved from upgrades, especially those hard to find ones.....~CS~


You would willingly install a new FPE circuit breaker? 

Not me, no way, never. 

I would turn away the work if they didn't go for a panel change.


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## sparkie2010 (Sep 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> You would willingly install a new FPE circuit breaker?
> 
> Not me, no way, never.
> 
> I would turn away the work if they didn't go for a panel change.


Amen to that!


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