# Underground Temp service hook up?



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

FWIW use a meter panel combo that the service conductors enter in the bottom of the panel into a chase that runs up to the meter or come into the side of the meter with a PVC LB.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I'm a little slow right now ...took a percocet for pain...
is this guy screwin with us?


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Man that would never Pass here POCO wouldn't even heat that up.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

electricguy said:


> Man that would never Pass here POCO wouldn't even heat that up.


POCO and the building department would make a point to call me 
and ream me a nice , wide new one and then stick a smiley face
on my *** and tell me to "have a nice day".:laughing:


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Around here, it has to be bottom fed, 2" PVC and not more than 3 long-turn 90s. It needs to be 3' deep unless it's within 4' of the transformer then it can be 2'. And a POCO inspector has to witness a mandrel pulled through it. 

If there's a building department (some places don't have one), it has to approved then the POCO will pull the wire, terminate it, hot it up and set the meter.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Maybe some ideas here

https://www.safetyauthority.ca/site...ices_for_construction_power_ib-el_2016-03.pdf


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

Yep... it's for real. I showed up to that! Thought I was crazy. Thanks guys. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

My tip~ Call your poco and get ahold of their rules as to what you must do and what they must do. Once you get the rules, do it exactly as they say to, they don't have any competition, so they don't budge . Encasement in concrete means all the way around the conduit not just the top and sides if they are calling for any encasement. Usually on a temp though you won't have to do any of that stuff. I just brought it up to illustrate what I mean by follow everything carefully.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Not sure why anyone would want to top feed a meter pan from an underground source. That just seems really counterproductive.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Not sure why anyone would want to top feed a meter pan from an underground source. That just seems really counterproductive.


At first I thought it was a gag photo.

Temp power ... is not my gig ... at this trivial scale.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I try to avoid ''temp'' underground services where I can. Heco charges 3,500 a hookup for underground temp's. When a house is knocked down to make way for a totally new one, I try to cut the wall around the existing old service and prop it up and then they build the new house around my existing ''temp'' pole...... A couple of gfi outlets and I'm good to go. I have one underway right now as a matter of fact. The new service will be 50 feet away from where the old one is. When the new one is done and they heat it up, we saw cut out the old one and patch the concrete and it's another done deal.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> At first I thought it was a gag photo.
> 
> Temp power ... is not my gig ... at this trivial scale.


Exactly!

Never been my primary thing but I have had to go do one when there was an issue with the first crew assigned that the boss just chose to see if he could avoid.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

electricguy said:


> Man that would never Pass here POCO wouldn't even heat that up.


Why?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I have done this a hundred times. It is a temp, they will put an underground trans right there and hook it up. I don't see you guys outrage?? Am I missing something not to code here?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> I have done this a hundred times. It is a temp, they will put an underground trans right there and hook it up. I don't see you guys outrage?? Am I missing something not to code here?


This is when "in a workman like manner" comes into play, that slap happy POS looks like an abortion from the get go.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

It's not my market... but the local technique is to rough in the garage first... and then set a semi-flush all-in-one 200A panel... using small gasoline engine powered compressors and gen-sets.

Then it's given a WP quad with GFCI receptacles so that the Poco can pull their conductors and heat it up. 

There is, then, no attempt at temp power. 

The remainder of the house is framed using just this one quad.

The frozen site in the OP looks like the GC and EC don't know their business.

I see no raceway/pipe in the foundation. It's already a cluster....


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

For the underground runs I try to do it next to the transfomer or pole where it translated from the drop to lateral run that where I would use that for tempory spot until the part of wall is up then run the rest.,,

if that was on the house side I will instructed them to build part of wall up so can able mount the meter socket and panel box up and POCO can heat that son va gunner without issue.

It was common for me to put UG meter socket on the concrete wall and run med wide sweep 90 ell down to the breaker panel and be done with it and put a tempory WP cover like tarp or large plastic to keep the panel dry much as ya can.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Why?


Because the AHJ says no more crap installs its not going to be done like that anymore . They are making the general contractor to answer to them if they see that crap. No more plywood backing, canstrut or similar rated brackets. The webinar we attended had a lot of crap install pics with a big red X through them.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

electricguy said:


> Because the AHJ says no more crap installs its not going to be done like that anymore . They are making the general contractor to answer to them if they see that crap. No more plywood backing, canstrut or similar rated brackets. The webinar we attended had a lot of crap install pics with a big red X through them.


Never really read or heard of any temporary service fires or any of that type of problem but that doesn't mean they don't happen so if the inspectors are going to err on the side of safety who are we to try and get passed their concerns?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The low cost of small gen-set power makes it wholly uneconomic for a residential GC to seek traditional temp power from the Poco.

One is miles ahead to simply soldier on with a tiny gen-set while roughing in.

Long before the whole structure is up, the Service can be set, and heated up.

So the GC// framers are on gasoline-electric power for a pitifully short period of time.

The photo posted in the OP shows that these players are totally lost.

Their raceways didn't even get inside the curtain wall of the new build.

That's just pure dumb.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> The low cost of small gen-set power makes it wholly uneconomic for a residential GC to seek traditional temp power from the Poco.
> 
> One is miles ahead to simply soldier on with a tiny gen-set while roughing in.
> 
> ...


It just looks like an abortion of an old used meter pan and some surplus supplies thrown together by some kid.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

You guys know this is a temporary service right? It is only there for 5 months and then it will go on to the next house.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

telsa said:


> The low cost of small gen-set power makes it wholly uneconomic for a residential GC to seek traditional temp power from the Poco.
> 
> One is miles ahead to simply soldier on with a tiny gen-set while roughing in.
> 
> ...


You have no idea what you are talking about. No GC in the world wants to listen to a genset the whole time they are framing a house.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

telsa said:


> The low cost of small gen-set power makes it wholly uneconomic for a residential GC to seek traditional temp power from the Poco.
> 
> One is miles ahead to simply soldier on with a tiny gen-set while roughing in.
> 
> ...


A generator needs to be stored securely from theft or brought to the job every day. A GC doesn't want to have to go to the job every day and setup the generator, then go fuel it, then go pick it up. There are many days during construction that a single trade might go there and need power. The GC doesn;t want to have to make special trips there for the generator. Generators are also non-stop noise and some towns require temp power so that a generator isn't running 10 hours per day and annoying the whole neighborhood.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

We are told to fasten a 2 X 10 pressure treated board to the foundation wall. The panel needs to be protected from the elements until the subfloor is in.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The gen-set is normally an asset of the framers...

And they are pretty quiet.

In the case of the OP...

I should think that even the bears stay asleep.

In the few times I witnessed this practice w/ my commercial builds...

No-one said boo about the framer's gasoline powered air compressor. 

I'll admit that I found it annoying... but that was all.

The beauty of this scheme is that the framers only need get a few day's work in to have enough up to set the new Service. (!!!) [ Semi-flush all-in-ones are our norm. ]

On my typical commercial build, the project is built-up entirely on Diesel-electric power -- for months on end.

I've even set a temp power Service ... to see it never used. (!!!) 

Yeah, I was surprised.

It turned out that the Poco's fees were just TOO much.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

telsa said:


> At first I thought it was a gag photo.
> 
> Temp power ... is not my gig ... at this trivial scale.


Me too...and I'm not getting on a high horse here , but
I'm just not understanding why this is so hard.

First , wait for utility company to set the transformer...do 
NOTHING until they are done.
Then...
Set a bottom feed temp pole within 1' of their pad.
Feed it from the bottom...leave plenty coiled up so that
the linesman has extra (it's only "2 alurd-won't break
the bank...
Pound ground rod(s) behind direction of where primaries are
coming from...
Call AHJ for inspection ..here the AHJ contacts POCO for 
hook up

Done.

This literally takes me about 45 minutes to do 
Before leaving my shop , I prepare the following...

* Temp pole assembled & wired w/ #2 alurd w/ about 
10' coiled up coming out of bottom of riser.
* pre cut (2) treated lumber 2x4 stakes about 3' long w
a sharp 45 degree angle on the business end 
* (2) treated lumber 2x4's 8' long
* my sign
* nails


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Me too...and I'm not getting on a high horse here , but
> I'm just not understanding why this is so hard.
> 
> First , wait for utility company to set the transformer...do
> ...



Sounds like a bonafied plan to me!

Shops I've worked in have a few temp set ups hanging in the warehouse until needed. Some overhead and some underground. Many on wood and some larger ones on strut.


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Me too...and I'm not getting on a high horse here , but
> I'm just not understanding why this is so hard.
> 
> First , wait for utility company to set the transformer...do
> ...


I haven't done very many temp services.

Do you have a picture? Do you just leave the cable exposed and coiled up?! I realize it's a temp service. But isn't that dangerous?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Smileyboy said:


> I haven't done very many temp services.
> 
> Do you have a picture? Do you just leave the cable exposed and coiled up?! I realize it's a temp service. But isn't that dangerous?


Who ever connects the cable to the trans cuts off the excess cable, not a big deal.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Smileyboy said:


> I haven't done very many temp services.
> 
> Do you have a picture? Do you just leave the cable exposed and coiled up?! I realize it's a temp service. But isn't that dangerous?


No pics...here , POCO wants you to leave a coil coming up out
of the ground (where you dug your 3' deep hole to drop your temp
pole base into ---within 1 foot of the pad mounted transformer.

When poco comes , they dig down to follow your feeders and slide 
them through the access under their transformer...this is why they
want you within 1'...they don't want to do alot of digging.

Not dangerous...your not energized until POCO does their work. 
When they are done , no feeders are exposed ... its all underground
from the temp pole to the underground access of their transformer.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Bird dog said:


> FWIW use a meter panel combo that the service conductors enter in the bottom of the panel into a chase that runs up to the meter or come into the side of the meter with a PVC LB.


from the looks of it , he has a temp service set up . There
should be a couple of circuit breakers and at least a couple of 
gfci outlet receptacles under that lid that flips open...maybe
even a 240 volt tist lock also.
He's got the right equipment , but I'm sure POCO would not energize
this because , HERE , if you come out of the top of a NEMA 3R
it has to be for overhead service resulting in ending at the top
with a weatherhead .


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> from the looks of it , he has a temp service set up . There
> should be a couple of circuit breakers and at least a couple of
> gfci outlet receptacles under that lid that flips open...maybe
> even a 240 volt tist lock also.
> ...


:thumbsup:

No matter where it is you have to play by the poco's rule book.

So many have their specs online nowadays it is simpler than it ever was before.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

here is one I built yesterday. All my existing ones had all the copper robbed out of them and were beat to ****. So I said **** it and built one from scratch. 50 amp range rec and 20 amp 120. Both gfci'ed.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> here is one I built yesterday. All my existing ones had all the copper robbed out of them and were beat to ****. So I said **** it and built one from scratch. 50 amp range rec and 20 amp 120. Both gfci'ed.


Looks professionally done as opposed to the one in the OP.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Always use two minni's so I can use them as a handle. Plus I put a nipple about a foot long so they can get a cord out of the midwest box. Doubles as another handle. 
On the other side I would have no problem doing it the way the op's pics were. Nothing unsafe or even ugly as long as it is just a temp.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> here is one I built yesterday. All my existing ones had all the copper robbed out of them and were beat to ****. So I said **** it and built one from scratch. 50 amp range rec and 20 amp 120. Both gfci'ed.


sbrn33 are you required to put yellow tape on your neutral? Tnx


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> sbrn33 are you required to put yellow tape on your neutral? Tnx


There are 3 rings of double taped grey, I think spiral wrapping is gay. I used the yellow cause it was the closest to white. Like I said it is a temp. No inspector cares.


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