# One hole straps on a horizontal pipe, up or down?



## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

I am sure I saw a thread on this, but can not find it. 

What was the consensus? is there actually anything that says its only listed to be used one way and not the other? 

I always do hole on top fwiw.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Jeff000 said:


> I am sure I saw a thread on this, but can not find it.
> 
> What was the consensus? is there actually anything that says its only listed to be used one way and not the other?
> 
> I always do hole on top fwiw.


 
I do them whichever way they look best! If they are listed only to be used one way its a new one on me. Never heard of such a thing.


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

We usually run them hole down, but the only time we usually do a horizontal run is on steel in a warehouse. On docks we use all SS two hole straps.


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

hole on the bottom so screw holds weight and pipe can't slip out if screw loosens just my opinion.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I go with 105s answer.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

sparky105 said:


> hole on the bottom so screw holds weight and pipe can't slip out if screw loosens just my opinion.


Go try this.

Put a 2 foot piece of pipe on a plywood wall, with the strap on the bottom, screw a 10x1 about half way in, now put a little weight on it....

Now do the same, but with the hole on top. 


That is what sold me on hole on top. Hole on top will hold tight still, hole on bottom will pull away from the wall.


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> Go try this.
> 
> Put a 2 foot piece of pipe on a plywood wall, with the strap on the bottom, screw a 10x1 about half way in, now put a little weight on it....
> 
> ...


I'll try it some time that was just the way I was taught


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

Vertical or horizontal, I always alternate L&R or up&down with the strap hole.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

amptech said:


> Vertical or horizontal, I always alternate L&R or up&down with the strap hole.


As do I.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

amptech said:


> Vertical or horizontal, I always alternate L&R or up&down with the strap hole.


Ditto.:thumbsup:

Chris


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Same as the grounds, DOWN :yes:




> Put a 2 foot piece of pipe on a plywood wall, with the strap on the bottom, screw a 10x1 *about half way in*, now put a little weight on it....


What kind of test is that? Screw it *all the way in*, then stand on it. I am betting that the strap will want to bend out before the screw fails.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

220/221 said:


> What kind of test is that? Screw it *all the way in*, then stand on it. I am betting that the strap will want to bend out before the screw fails.


Was referring to the post about how screws get loose over time... 
Same thing with them tight, I can put all my weight (148lbs) on a hole up 3/4 but only about half with hole down. hole down bends backwards at the bend by the hole, and hole on top bends the hook part around the pipe, but it takes more force.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

I am more of a whichever feels right at the time. I would say for looks they will all be the same. But the overbuiilder in me appreciates the alternating option several chose.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

drsparky said:


> I go with 105s answer.


 me too.....


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

sparky105 said:


> hole on the bottom so screw holds weight and pipe can't slip out if screw loosens just my opinion.


 
Thats how I was taught too...:thumbsup:


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

I also don't test my pipe work with my feet lol I'm 240 lbs


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Same as the grounds, DOWN :yes:


Me too.:thumbsup:


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## hiamp (Mar 14, 2010)

Alternating is the most secure but sometimes doesn't look the best depending on the job. I mostly go on top when looks are important. In my experience, the only ones that notice if they alternate are other tradesmen.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

hiamp said:


> Alternating is the most secure but sometimes doesn't look the best depending on the job. I mostly go on top when looks are important. In my experience, the only ones that notice if they alternate are other tradesmen.


LOL yep...my ex g/f used to get pissed when I would take her for dinner and spend most of the evening examining the conduit work in the ceiling of my favourite restaurant. It was damn nice conduit work though! This was at the point in the relationship that even a nice dinner wasn't going to get me any, so might as well look at something interesting. 

Sorry getting off topic! Back to strapping...


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## arcboss (Aug 2, 2012)

I have never seen where any manufacturer, code or the UL specifies whether a one hole strap should be mounted up or down. This is probably because the straps are designed to meet the NEC requirements under full load no matter which direction the straps are installed. Some say that one way is better in case someone walks on the pipe. On wall installations, I doubt whether this is a valid consideration and since no one can predict insane acts of others......

I also submit that the anchor method and substrate is much more important than the orientation of the strap. Some also suggest that the weight of conduit and conductors may cause the strap to straighten and therefore the anchor or screw will help support the overloaded strap. Straps, again are designed to support the maximum weight of conduit and allowable conductor fill when installed according to code spacing requirements. The anchor choice is really the only variable. If you are really concerned, use two hole straps or reduce the strap spacing.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

sparky105 said:


> hole on the bottom so screw holds weight and pipe can't slip out if screw loosens just my opinion.


This


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## arcboss (Aug 2, 2012)

Jeff000 is correct. Using physics to decide, it is obvious that the center of gravity of the supported pipe will cause the pipe to pull away from the wall if the strap is turned up and against the wall if the strap is installed down.

This means that in the former method, the force will be placing tensile on the screw, anchor and substrate, whereas in the latter the force will be shear. The friction of the pipe against the substrate will reduce the shear forces. The tensile forces in the first case will be multiplied by the leverage of the pipe away from the wall. In the second, the tensile forces on the anchoring system is used simply to increase the friction, thus helping decrease the shear forces on the anchor and screw. To test this, try installing a picture with one screw in drywall, placing the screw through the picture. A screw in the top of the picture will usually hold (since the top is the usual location). A screw in the bottom will let the top of the picture fall away from the wall and cause the screw to easily pull out, using leverage.

When installed up, the anchor method and substrate are vastly more critical than when the strap is installed down. 

Still, as I stated in my first post, when installed according to code and the electrical engineer's recommendation if applicable, it is really a matter of aesthetics.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I always like being on top........... So Top it is.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I always like being on top........... So Top it is.


 
But the song says she only comes when shes on top


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I was 17 when I was told hole down was mandatory. I know better now but it stuck, so HOLE DOWN.

I think alternating would be the ticket, best of both worlds?


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## Ninety (Jan 7, 2011)

I used to like hole on top but a friend of mine swore by hole on the bottom to such an extent that I now do hole on the bottom just to make him happy. Haven't seen him in years either :laughing:


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

I won $100 betting on this. Strap two pieces of pipe to a wall and try it. With the hole on the bottom the strap bends away from the wall long before the strap will open up if you put the hole on top.

If you've ever done maintenance at schools you would know this. Go look behind a school, more often than not there will be wrecked pipe work from kids trying to climb onto the roof. 9 times out of 10 where the pipe is ripped off the wall the hole is on the bottom. 

That said, use two hole straps places like that. Anywhere else where it is just cosmetic do whatever makes you happy.


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

Hole down


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Screw on bottom always outlast above on a down push


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> But the song says she only comes when shes on top


The neighbors complain about the noise from above


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

sparky105 said:


> hole on the bottom so screw holds weight and pipe can't slip out if screw loosens just my opinion.


wrong. The screw needs to be on top to anchor the one hole. The clasp of the one hole is to hold the pipe. If u reverse it, and have the weight of the pipe on the screw in essence not allowing the one hole to do its job. In fact, there are many tests on this. Doone yourself.
Go to a drywall, or plywood. x2 4’ pc of pipe Two one holes on each pipe. 1 pipe with straps up, 1 down. Then stand on them. U will then see why the one hole is to be put with the screw hole up, and clasp +pipe below.


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

Shockdoc said:


> Screw on bottom always outlast above on a down push


Hahaha. Please back this up and do a video. Your totally wrong.


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## Wiredindallas (Aug 9, 2018)

LOL 😆.
I guess this thread is what is called overthinking it. If you put a warning tape on the conduit warning to not stand on it, you can go either way.


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

Wiredindallas said:


> LOL 😆.
> I guess this thread is what is called overthinking it. If you put a warning tape on the conduit warning to not stand on it, you can go either way.


very true


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## Wiredindallas (Aug 9, 2018)

BTW, notice how obsolete this thtead is?


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

Wiredindallas said:


> BTW, notice how obsolete this thtead is?


i do. Its an eye opener. Above all, its merely opinions. I see this happen all the time. One of the bigger contractors in our local wouldn’t allow them to be done screw down.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

If it was that important it would be a code requirement or in the manufacturer's instructions.


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

joe-nwt said:


> If it was that important it would be a code requirement or in the manufacturer's instructions.


Alot of liability in that statement.


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

Schooleyibew683 said:


> Alot of liability in that statement.


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

Schooleyibew683 said:


>


Leave this right here for the yahoos that think a screw replaces the one hole


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Have you actually reproduced that test? Or do you believe everything you see on youtube?


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

joe-nwt said:


> Have you actually reproduced that test? Or do you believe everything you see on youtube?


Yes. On plywood, drywall, and studs. Hence i said please do the test yourself to see. Idk the philosophy behind the screw on the bottom. It defeats the purpose of the clasp. - i see guys in the local do it all the time. If they knew better, they would do better i suppose.


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## Schooleyibew683 (May 24, 2021)

Schooleyibew683 said:


> Yes. On plywood, drywall, and studs. Hence i said please do the test yourself to see. Idk the philosophy behind the screw on the bottom. It defeats the purpose of the clasp. - i see guys in the local do it all the time. If they knew better, they would do better i suppose.





Schooleyibew683 said:


> as one said there is no code, or manufacturer instructions. This is my opinion, and my research. Same with backstraps and rigid- im working on a school right now- i seen a slew of backstraps put on upside down. Same deal. Idk that its crucial on small pipe as it is the heavier pipe. 2-3”. One of those things that once u learn it- its hard to reverse it.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I'll just leave this here for the yahoos that think they are smarter than the manufacturer.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Personal preference, I prefer hole down but ain't no code or listing I know so, do it your way.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I believe every Zombie thread deserves a strap up, a strap down and a stake in the chest.


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