# Work boots that resist electric shock



## kaboler

A while ago, I heard from another sparkie that they sell boots that are rated so good for electric shock that you can touch a 600v panel without getting shocked.

So I went down to Marks Work Warehouse (now lamely called Marks) and while I couldn't find boots that say "safe for 600v", a lot of boots have the symbol for resistance (upside down U).

I think it' be scary and trippy to put on some boots that are safe for 600v and touch something hot. Though I doubt I'd have the balls to do it.

Oh wait, I meant 347. 600v is across 2 phases I think. Anyway, you know what I mean.

Are there any amazing boots out there? I see there's a gloves thread.


----------



## oldtimer

kaboler said:


> A while ago, I heard from another sparkie that they sell boots that are rated so good for electric shock that you can touch a 600v panel without getting shocked.
> 
> So I went down to Marks Work Warehouse (now lamely called Marks) and while I couldn't find boots that say "safe for 600v", a lot of boots have the symbol for resistance (upside down U).
> 
> I think it' be scary and trippy to put on some boots that are safe for 600v and touch something hot. Though I doubt I'd have the balls to do it.
> 
> Oh wait, I meant 347. 600v is across 2 phases I think. Anyway, you know what I mean.
> 
> Are there any amazing boots out there? I see there's a gloves thread.


Upside down U......Do you mean omega?? :whistling2:


----------



## 10492

I would just get 1000v insulated socks instead.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

They sell ELE rated soles, but no manufacturer sells a boot and makes that claim.


----------



## Speedy Petey

kaboler said:


> A while ago, I heard from another sparkie that they sell boots that are rated so good for electric shock that you can touch a 600v panel without getting shocked.


Describe to me a situation where you would have to, or want to, touch 600v live parts. :001_huh:

You should not be touching 120v live.


----------



## BBQ

I don't think anyone makes a boot designed to allow you to work live.

If such a boot was made it seems to me it would be required to be tested each six months just like insulated gloves must be.


----------



## Big John

All our boots have to have an ANSI "Electrical Hazard" rating according to Z41 PT99. 

Which means in undamaged condition, they're supposed to: "...Be able to withstand the application of 14,400 volts at 60 hertz for one minute with no current flow or leakage current in excess of 3.0 milliamperes, under dry conditions." 

The problem is, that once the boots are damp, or covered in dirt, or have a nail in the sole, all bets are off. It's comforting to know that my boots do have this rating as a last line of defense to keep me from being electrocuted, but I'm definitely not gonna bet my life on it.

-John


----------



## muck

You mean like these?
http://frhamsafety.com/industrial/boots/overshoe3.html


----------



## mattsilkwood

My Carolinas are EH (Electrical Hazard). I think they are supposed to be good for 600V. Like Speedy said, don't be touching anything live bare handed.If you're an apprentice you shouldn't be touching anything hot regardless.


----------



## Nab

They sell boots with an eh rating but nothing guaranteed to my knowledge


----------



## Fum Duck

Good god.. I fell for this about 5 maybe 6 years ago. It was new to me, and I was changing jobs. Went from a "comfy" job, to heavy industrial. DO NOT WORK HOT JOBS BASED ON A DAMN ''BOOT RATING''.


----------



## kaboler

hahaha, I don't! But it'd be comforting to know I could. Plus, if I get shocked, I'd likely get shocked because I have 1 hand on the hot wire, and 1 hand on something grounded.

I work with hot a lot. Boots would be nice to have, that's all.

Yesterday I found a hot wire that, once I shut it off at the breaker, was STILL HOT!!! (turns out I'm not that smart, wrong breaker).

I prefer to 1) check to make sure sure sure!!!! it's not hot, even when I think it's not hot, 2) if I have to work on something hot, be damn careful, and 3) assume everything is hot.

I've been shocked mildly by 120 (a tingle) and once I should have been shocked but didn't, because I guess I wasn't grounded. I like to work on hot stuff with 1 hand behind my back and my **** away from metal.


----------



## Wirenuting

The EH rating of a pair of work boots is based on the puncture resistance of the sole. They have a non-metallic plate or non-conductive plate above the sole. 
It's so we can take a carpet nail and not go to ground by mistake. So to speak. 
I believe salisbury makes a pair of hot boots. But I'm not sure of the testing frequency.


----------



## kaboler

muck said:


> You mean like these?
> http://frhamsafety.com/industrial/boots/overshoe3.html


Solid! But I don't know if they could fit over my steel toe workboots.

I think it'd be ok to have those and forgo steel toes (I explain why below) but it's a company policy to have steel toes. Maybe I should just give me the middle finger and get something like that.

Causes of death in Alberta construction:

#1 - falls.
#2 - electrocution.


----------



## Big John

If you're bound and determined to work everything energized, then the hell with worrying about footware: You'd be much better off getting some properly sized and rated insulated gloves and leather protectors.

They're a lot easier to maintain properly, and they'd protect you a lot better than just having something on your feet.

If you do get them: Learn how to inspect them, and do it whenever you go to put them on for the day. Have them tested regularly. A glove can look fine on inspection and still fail a test.

-John


----------



## mattsilkwood

kaboler said:


> hahaha, I don't! But it'd be comforting to know I could. Plus, if I get shocked, I'd likely get shocked because I have 1 hand on the hot wire, and 1 hand on something grounded.
> 
> I work with hot a lot. Boots would be nice to have, that's all.
> 
> Yesterday I found a hot wire that, once I shut it off at the breaker, was STILL HOT!!! (turns out I'm not that smart, wrong breaker).
> 
> I prefer to 1) check to make sure sure sure!!!! it's not hot, even when I think it's not hot, 2) if I have to work on something hot, be damn careful, and 3) assume everything is hot.
> 
> I've been shocked mildly by 120 (a tingle) and once I should have been shocked but didn't, because I guess I wasn't grounded. I like to work on hot stuff with 1 hand behind my back and my **** away from metal.


 They are not to be worn so you can work hot!!!
They are to reduce the shock risk. 
No offense but it sounds to me like you are a little too green to be working anything hot, it's a good way to wind up dead if you don't know what you are doing. While the shock hazard is real and the amount of current that is required to be lethal is minute, the bigger hazard is an arc flash. If you don't know what an arc flash is go to youtube and search ARC FLASH, there are plenty of videos. While you are watching those, remember what you are seeing is 35,000 degF or greater. That's hotter than the surface of the sun.

After you have watched a couple search for DONNIES VIDEO to see what it can do to you.


----------



## kaboler

Gotcha guys, gotcha. But, you shouldn't even be working around an open panel that's hot. I've seen the arc flash videos. Green or no green, but we all do it. We can't shut down a refinery because you want to put in a 15a breaker.


----------



## kaboler

Just checked out Donnie. Yeppers, gotta be careful! I installed a panel when I first started, and a journeyman came along to do the final service. When he went to turn on the main, he hid around the corner and did it. I guess he saw the videos too. Now, when I do that, customers get scared too. It's fun.


----------



## brian john

Dnkldorf said:


> I would just get 1000v insulated socks instead.


I am thinking about electric socks for skiing.

http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Heated-Socks-Sportsmen-Battery/dp/B0026LHT78


----------



## Zog

Big John said:


> All our boots have to have an ANSI "Electrical Hazard" rating according to Z41 PT99.
> 
> Which means in undamaged condition, they're supposed to: "...Be able to withstand the application of 14,400 volts at 60 hertz for one minute with no current flow or leakage current in excess of 3.0 milliamperes, under dry conditions."
> 
> The problem is, that once the boots are damp, or covered in dirt, or have a nail in the sole, all bets are off. It's comforting to know that my boots do have this rating as a last line of defense to keep me from being electrocuted, but I'm definitely not gonna bet my life on it.
> 
> -John


I was going to reply to this thread and saw this perfect response. Well said BJ. The EH rating, with an omega sign in canada, or green stripe in older boots is a huge misconception in the industry. I treally means there is a strong dielectric layer between the rubber sole and the insole of the boot, that has to meet the ASTM standard and should nto effect the way you do work. There are rubber overshoes that are rated for different voltages, per OSHA 1910.137, same clases as gloves for live work but these boots are not the same thing.


----------



## nitro71

As long as the boot doesn't have steel nails used in it's construction it's not going to conduct electricity very well. I don't pay any more for boots with a electrical rating than not. Redwing 606's are EH rated anyways.


----------



## jusme123

I just buy cheap boots and wear thick rubber socks :laughing:
Good rule of thumb to live by, if its* live*, don't bare hand it


----------



## etb

Big John said:


> If you're bound and determined to work everything energized, then the hell with worrying about footware: You'd be much better off getting some properly sized and rated insulated gloves and leather protectors.


Amen. Linemen wear insulated boots and for good reason: it's easy to become the ground fault, through your feet. Know two polehoppers that got their ankles blew off before they wore boots. The same is true with LV, but in my experience it's easier to become a ground fault from one hand to the other; gloves are a defense against either.


A long story you can skip but my 2c on why insulated boots are not for me:

Like other safety stuff, they can create a false sense of security. Case in point: When I was learning as a kid I used to always follow the: check known, check unknown, re-check known method when testing if a circuit was live before diving in. When I got in the real world that wasted to much time, so I started just using wiggy (less likely to mis-read than DMM). "Too much" to carry that so I started using DMM. One day got whacked with 277 in a gaiter panel when the meter lied to me (cold solder joint) so I ditched that approach.

Then for years I used a NCV: once it indicated circuit went from live to dead I would quickly brush the circuit, so that my hand is already in motion away from the hot part in case it happens to still be live. My reasoning is that I'm going to be touching this; I'd rather know it's hot with a glancing brush rather than latch on to it and can't get off (been there, done that, happy to still be alive). This had always worked for me, and has several times caught my NCV missing a hot wire. Then I got a pair of EH redwings (didn't want EH, but cheapest boot in what I liked).

One day during a remodel I killed my circuit, tested dead with NCV, brushed the hot: dead. I untwist the nuts and went to work. Worked the whole hot side of the box then started on neutral. I work with both hands to go faster (dumb, I know), so I had 277 in one hand and neutral in the other and got nailed like I've never before; jolted across my chest knocked me off the ladder and against the wall. I was totally caught off guard because I'd had the hots in my hand for several minutes. THE BOOTS kept me from getting shocked until I became the ground fault, creating a false sense of security.

In reality the accident was because I didn't LOTO; that's another story. The point I wanted to make was about the boots.


----------



## Frasbee

I own a pair of EH rated composite safety toe boots.

They're manufactured by Converse (in china), and they're the only boots I've ever had that will allow me to work for a 10 hour day and literally have no foot soreness by the time I take them off at home. It's like having pillows strapped to my feet.


----------



## 76nemo

It continues to baffle me the research that's put into gloves and not footwear. I buy EH rated footwear and I only wear them on the production floor, nowhere else. I also have a mat that rolls with me, and is taken care of almost as much as my gloves.
I know the motto is "Don't work anything hot", but that is not my realm. I don't run the chit, I troubleshoot the chit. I work almost everything hot, it's what I do and makes troubleshooting much easier. You shut down a multi-million dollar piece of manufacturing equipment coming in blind and lets see how far you get. I don't mind working things hot, but I do take the extra time in keeping my PPE pampered.

I'm quite surprised footwear hasn't been brought up before now.......


Look out, here comes Zog!!!!!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Zog

Footwear, or mats for that matter are not required for shock protection because they can't be relied on. The only requirement is in OSHA that states workers exposed to electrical hazards shall wear rubber soled shoes. (Paraphrased) That means a rubber soled boot, nto a rubber coated sole like a tennis shoe. 

You can be on a mat, or be wearing rubber soled shoes and all it takes is any other part of your body touching something else (Knee on the ground, hand touching something grounded, etc) and the shoe and or mat just became worthless. 

Now for workers exposed to step potentials, like linemen, there are some requirements for rubber overshoes (Same classes, type, and testing requirements as your gloves), but for most electricians that is not a concern.


----------



## 76nemo

Zog said:


> Footwear, or mats for that matter are not required for shock protection because they can't be relied on. The only requirement is in OSHA that states workers exposed to electrical hazards shall wear rubber soled shoes. (Paraphrased) That means a rubber soled boot, nto a rubber coated sole like a tennis shoe.
> 
> You can be on a mat, or be wearing rubber soled shoes and all it takes is any other part of your body touching something else (Knee on the ground, hand touching something grounded, etc) and the shoe and or mat just became worthless.
> 
> Now for workers exposed to step potentials, like linemen, there are some requirements for rubber overshoes (Same classes, type, and testing requirements as your gloves), but for most electricians that is not a concern.


 

All's it will take is maybe a brush of the shoulder to ground you otherwise, then it's over. I don't wear EH rated footwear and carry a mat to rescue any carelessness. I wear it like an air bag. It might not keep me alive, but it's another step in the right direction.

Gloves, insulated tooling, footwear and mats. If I have to work hot, that's what I'm toting.


----------



## Zog

76nemo said:


> Gloves, insulated tooling, footwear and mats. If I have to work hot, that's what I'm toting.


No FR clothing? Facesheild? Hard hat? Safety glasses? If you are going to work hot at least wear the right PPE.


----------



## 76nemo

Zog said:


> No FR clothing? Facesheild? Hard hat? Safety glasses? If you are going to work hot at least wear the right PPE.


All of thee above Zog, quit busting my chops:laughing:

I'm speaking of the protection of isolation from electrocution, not flash/blast.

Left hand out, you want to crack my knuckles again Dad?


----------



## Zog

76nemo said:


> All of thee above Zog, quit busting my chops:laughing:


Then I would need to find a new hobby:jester:


----------



## Buck Parrish

nitro71 said:


> As long as the boot doesn't have steel nails used in it's construction it's not going to conduct electricity very well. I don't pay any more for boots with a electrical rating than not. Redwing 606's are EH rated anyways.


 
That's what I have . I bought my redwings because thier real comfortable.
I don't go around touching live wires with them. Thier just an extra safety precauiton in case of an accidental electrical continuity:thumbsup:


----------



## Mastertorturer

I wasn't aware companies even let people work without boots that were resistant to electrical shock "Omega" & (in Canada) CSA with green triangle to prove its steel toed.

Kind of thought this was basic like don't jam a screwdriver in your eye. :whistling2:


----------



## Mike_586

Mastertorturer said:


> I wasn't aware companies even let people work without boots that were resistant to electrical shock "Omega" & (in Canada) CSA with green triangle to prove its steel toed.
> 
> Kind of thought this was basic like don't jam a screwdriver in your eye. :whistling2:


You'll learn a lot of little things about how things are different between our two countries, and to be honest its one of my main interests in coming here. There's a lot to be learned seeing how the other guys do things. 

I've been here a few years and just yesterday I realized, because someone mentioned using plastic vs. steel that their plastic boxes don't have to be grounded, while all ours (I'm talking about device boxes for plugs and switches) have a grounding strap.

As far as the electrical part of things go particularly the CEC vs. NEC and NFPA70E vs CSAZ462, you'll find things are far more inline with one another than different. But once you start moving away from that to fall arrest, general safety and PPE requirements things start to get a little more different.


----------

