# Service change (pictures)



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Work zone:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Nice clean up ! 


TheBrushman, we are not allowed to use that .......either.


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## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

Pete, we are not allowed to use cable. Is this common?
If you did ten services a month. How many would be done like this, verse using GRC?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Forget that.. no sleeve where you are.. old pic

That is a guarantee water will leak into the mp and eventually go into the panel.. job security.. :thumbup:

On the new install.. I would of put the first strap higher.. less chance of splitting the cedar shakes..

I guess you were "lazy" and did the POCO connections yourself??


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## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

How many hours did that take you?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> Pete, we are not allowed to use cable. Is this common?
> If you did ten services a month. How many would be done like this, verse using GRC?


In my area, 99.9% of services are SEU cable.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> Pete, we are not allowed to use cable. Is this common?


Did they change the NEC or is it a power company requirement?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> How many hours did that take you?


Too many.  I way underestimated it. Cleaning up the panel took way more time than I though. 10 hours total, but I haven't hooked the Gentran back up because I have no clue where the circuits went, and the homeowner wants to rearrange it.


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## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

Isn't that a violation of 230.9 A ?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Forget that.. no sleeve where you are.. old pic
> 
> That is a guarantee water will leak into the mp and eventually go into the panel.. job security.. :thumbup:


I never use duct seal. I silicone caulk everything. No water leakage that way. 




> On the new install.. I would of put the first strap higher.. less chance of splitting the cedar shakes..


Didn't matter. These are 43 years old. They split no matter what. 



> I guess you were "lazy" and did the POCO connections yourself??


Yup.


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## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Did they change the NEC or is it a power company requirement?


It's a local code here.

Pretty much everyone that I have talked to in Fl, has told me the samething.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Too many.  I way underestimated it. Cleaning up the panel took way more time than I though. 10 hours total, but I haven't hooked the Gentran back up because I have no clue where the circuits went, and the homeowner wants to rearrange it.


You still made money.. so don't look at it as a loss.. :thumbsup:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

And what stops water from leaking in where the Seu, enters the building ?


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## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Too many.  I way underestimated it. Cleaning up the panel took way more time than I though. 10 hours total, but I haven't hooked the Gentran back up because I have no clue where the circuits went, and the homeowner wants to rearrange it.


I figured 8 to 10. Sometimes it happens. I wouldn't sweat it.:thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Didn't matter. These are 43 years old. They split no matter what.
> Yup.


Yes it does matter unless your cedar shingles are made of peanut brittle..

If you put your straps 2" above the course line, there is a lot *less chance* of them splitting..

That is a rookie mistake.. you will learn as you get more experience in doing a _perfect job_.. that means NO cracked shingles.. no matter what the age of the house..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Yes it does matter unless your cedar shingles are made of peanut brittle..
> 
> If you put your straps 2" above the course line, there is a lot *less chance* of them splitting..
> 
> That is a rookie mistake.. you will learn as you get more experience in doing a _perfect job_.. that means NO cracked shingles.. no matter what the age of the house..


Thanks for the lesson on SEU securing. :laughing: This isn't my first run around the track.


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

You used SE cable, you are crazy, that place is going to burn down. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Thanks for the lesson on SEU securing. :laughing: This isn't my first run around the track.


Then why would you put strap screws right at the bottom of the course.. :blink:

I don't want to nit pick .. but the #6 on the side of the panel should of been brought into the bottom instead of the side..

You wasted space on a new piece of wood.. ANOTHER rookie mistake.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Then why would you put strap screws right at the bottom of the course.. :blink:


You obviously do not use SEU cable. 



> I don't want to nit pick .. but the #6 on the side of the panel should of been brought into the bottom instead of the side..


Why? 



> You wasted space on a new piece of wood.. ANOTHER rookie mistake.. :no:


Did you not notice the Gentran? :blink: I kinda needed to fit that in too.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

dronai said:


> And what stops water from leaking in where the Seu, enters the building ?


I always caulk around the cable, but many use duct seal, which is a guarantee for a leak down the road. I had to replace the panel in my house because the original installer used duct seal.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You obviously do not use SEU cable. I use (2) hole PVC straps all the time and you never put screws into the bottom edge like that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even more of a reason to bring the #6 into the bottom of the panel.. look at all the wasted wood you have there and because you have a GENTRAN to install, it is even more of a reason..

A smart electrician brings all his cables into the back panel KO's and you never waste space on a wood backing even if you don't need it for the job you are doing now.. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

No pipe..?.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Even more of a reason to bring the #6 into the bottom of the panel.. look at all the wasted wood you have there and because you have a GENTRAN to install, it is even more of a reason..
> 
> A smart electrician brings all his cables into the back panel KO's and you never waste space on a wood backing even if you don't need it for the job you are doing now.. :thumbsup:


Man, you come up with some of the wackiest stuff. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> A smart electrician ....


A smart electrician doesn't bury boxes in the grass. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> No pipe..?.



Yeah, sorry about that. It looks horrible on a house.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Man, you come up with some of the wackiest stuff. :laughing:


B4T does not hold a candle to Harry. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Man, you come up with some of the wackiest stuff. :laughing:


Too bad it is true and makes perfect sense.. you keep harping on the PVC boxes.. talk about being wacky.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Too bad it is true and makes perfect sense.. you keep harping on the PVC boxes.. talk about being wacky.. :no:


So far you've picked on stuff I never would have even thought of in a million years, and I doubt anyone else would either. All SEU is fastened to the lower end of the shingle or siding in my area. You're making it out like it's some big deal when it's all done that way. You are nuts. :wacko:

Oh, and the Gentran is already installed. There is nothing to put in the lower corner of the plywood, and if I had to, I would just take out the staple and push the #6 off to the side. Not a big deal.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> B4T does not hold a candle to Harry. :laughing:


Two peas in a pod. :laughing:


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

B4T is either joking or ********. Jury is still out.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

jza said:


> B4T is either joking or ********. Jury is still out.


I'm almost 99% convinced he's actually a troll.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jza said:


> B4T is either joking or ********. Jury is still out.


jza.. again.. you are still locked into negative posts about anything or everything mentioned here.. 

You never have a good word to say.. why is that? :blink:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter, empty your mail box


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I'm almost 99% convinced he's actually a troll.


REALLY???????:blink::blink::blink:

How many screen names have I had since joining the (3) Internet forums that we all belong too..

The answer is ONE.. and I made is smaller to make it easier for replies to my posts.. :thumbsup:

You are the LAST person who should pointing the finger and yelling TROLL.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> REALLY???????:blink::blink::blink:
> 
> How many screen names have I had since joining the (3) Internet forums that we all belong too..
> 
> ...


The difference is I will readily admit I was a troll. You're a troll and you don't even realize it.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Peter, empty your mail box


Done. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> So far you've picked on stuff I never would have even thought of in a million years, and I doubt anyone else would either. All SEU is fastened to the lower end of the shingle or siding in my area. You're making it out like it's some big deal when it's all done that way. You are nuts. :wacko:
> 
> Oh, and the Gentran is already installed. There is nothing to put in the lower corner of the plywood, and if I had to, I would just take out the staple and push the #6 off to the side. Not a big deal.


That is all right.. go and split all the shingles you like since you have no problem with it.. 

That is hack work.. but continue to blame the shingle and not the person installing the screw.. :no:


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Peter, I was half expecting to see a blue panel can when I saw that you were posting a recent service.:jester::laughing:

Looks good.


What's with all the phone boxes? Is that a bookies house?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The difference is I will readily admit I was a troll. You're a troll and you don't even realize it.


Funny thing YOU are the only one here who has ever called me a troll.. so exactly where does the problem exist..


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Did they change the NEC or is it a power company requirement?


They stepped into the 20th century :laughing:


Peter. What's with the wire tags. Yours?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> That is all right.. go and split all the shingles you like since you have no problem with it..
> 
> That is hack work.. but continue to blame the shingle and not the person installing the screw.. :no:


You're just trolling now. 



B4T said:


> Funny thing YOU are the only one here who has ever called me a troll.. so exactly where does the problem exist..


Yup, still trolling.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

JohnR said:


> Peter, I was half expecting to see a blue panel can when I saw that you were posting a recent service.:jester::laughing:
> 
> Looks good.


:laughing: Thanks. :thumbsup:




> What's with all the phone boxes? Is that a bookies house?


That's what happens when someone switches from Verizon to Cox for their telephone service. You end up with a mess like that. 



220/221 said:


> Peter. What's with the wire tags. Yours?


Yeah, mine. Turns out the circuit directory was useless so I wasted my time with them. Oh well.


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## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

I just looked in the 2008 handbook. After reading 230.9A.
I think its a code violation to run the SER so close to the window.
Am I reading wrong?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> I just looked in the 2008 handbook. After reading 230.9A.
> I think its a code violation to run the SER so close to the window.
> Am I reading wrong?


You are right...


*
230.9 Clearances on Buildings.​*​​​​Service conductors and
final spans shall comply with 230.9(A), (B), and (C).​
*(A) Clearances.​*​​​​Service conductors installed as open conductors
or multiconductor cable without an overall outer
jacket shall have a clearance of not less than 900 mm (3 ft)
from windows that are designed to be opened, doors,
porches, balconies, ladders, stairs, fire escapes, or similar
locations.​
_Exception: Conductors run above the top level of a window
shall be permitted to be less than the 900-mm (3-ft)
requirement.​_*(B) Vertical Clearance.​*​​​​The vertical clearance of final
spans above, or within 900 mm (3 ft) measured horizontally
of, platforms, projections, or surfaces from which they
might be reached shall be maintained in accordance with
230.24(B).​
*(C) Building Openings.​*​​​​Overhead service conductors
shall not be installed beneath openings through which materials
may be moved, such as openings in farm and commercial
buildings, and shall not be installed where they​
obstruct entrance to these building openings.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Sorry Harry, wrong. How does the wording of that article apply to SEU cable?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You're just trolling now.
> Yup, still trolling.


Pete.. you and I will never see things the same way.. just is not going to happen..

Why don't we just ignore each other.. the bickering gets old and nothing to be gained..

I can easily not respond to your posts and I hope you can do the same.. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Sorry Harry, wrong. How does the wording of that article apply to SEU cable?


According to the wording of 230.9(A) you cannot have have any service conductors there in pipe or other wise.

I dought the inspector will call you on it.

unless he does not like cable..:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> According to the wording of 230.9(A) you cannot have have any service conductors there in pipe or other wise.
> 
> I dought the inspector will call you on it.
> 
> unless he does not like cable..:laughing:


It's not a violation at all. It says service _conductors._ That rule applies to the service conductors coming out of the weatherhead in my picture. The SEU cable is fine the way it is running next to the window.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Sorry Harry, wrong. How does the wording of that article apply to SEU cable?



You are right i just read it 5 times..:whistling2::laughing:


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> According to the wording of 230.9(A) you cannot have have any service conductors there in pipe or other wise.
> 
> I dought the inspector will call you on it.
> 
> unless he does not like cable..:laughing:


Harry, The keys words in 230.9 (A) are "installed as open conductors or multiconductor cable without an overall outer jacket." SE Cable has an outer jacket. No code violation.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Pete.. you and I will never see things the same way.. just is not going to happen..
> 
> Why don't we just ignore each other.. the bickering gets old and nothing to be gained..
> 
> I can easily not respond to your posts and I hope you can do the same.. :thumbsup:


You picked on a bunch of silly things and said I was making rookie mistakes. You are a troll, plain and simple.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You are right i just read it 5 times..:whistling2::laughing:


OK, there is still hope for you yet. :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> I just looked in the 2008 handbook. After reading 230.9A.
> I think its a code violation to run the SER so close to the window.
> Am I reading wrong?


TheBrushMan007 read the wording in red..:thumbsup:

(A) Clearances. 
Service conductors installed as open conductors
or multiconductor cable without an overall outer
jacket shall have a clearance of not less than 900 mm (3 ft)
from windows that are designed to be opened, doors,
porches, balconies, ladders, stairs, fire escapes, or similar
locations​


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> OK, there is still hope for you yet. :laughing:


Thank you...


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## thegoodelectrician (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Work zone:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Roger123 said:


> Harry, The keys words in 230.9 (A) are "installed as open conductors or multiconductor cable without an overall outer jacket." SE Cable has an outer jacket. No code violation.


Yes i stand corrected..:thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You picked on a bunch of silly things and said I was making rookie mistakes. You are a troll, plain and simple.


You ARE making rookie mistakes..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

thegoodelectrician said:


> so that connector you have screwed into that hub, is that listed?


It's listed for use with SE cable. They make them from 1/2" for UF cable to the 2" size you see here. Although I would never trust one to be watertight, and that's why I always caulk them. 

I know this is totally foreign to people outside of the northeast US, but what you see here is completely typical for an SE cable service.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> You ARE making rookie mistakes..


Because I didn't put the SEU clip 2" higher? :laughing: 

:wacko::wacko::wacko:


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

SEU sounds nice and cheap.. If you used SEU in Texas the inspector would stare wide eye for a second or two.... turn... and stab you with his pen... No questions asked.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

thegoodelectrician said:


> Peter D said:
> 
> 
> > Work zone:
> ...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Because I didn't put the SEU clip 2" higher? :laughing:
> 
> :wacko::wacko::wacko:


Splitting wood shingles because you put screws at the very edge is a rookie mistake..

Running a bare #6 across a new wood backing and wasting a good chunk of usable space is a rookie mistake..

You will do better next time.. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Grimlock said:


> SEU sounds nice and cheap..


Yup, $2.40/ft for 4/0 and $1 a foot for #2. :thumbsup: The piece I took down on that service was dated 1985 and still as good as the day it was installed.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Splitting wood shingles because you put screws at the very edge is a rookie mistake..
> 
> Running a bare #6 across a new wood backing and wasting a good chunk of usable space is a rookie mistake..
> 
> You will do better next time.. :thumbsup:


OK, troll.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Peter D said:


> It's listed for use with SE cable. They make them from 1/2" for UF cable to the 2" size you see here. Although I would never trust one to be watertight, and that's why I always caulk them.
> 
> I know this is totally foreign to people outside of the northeast US, but what you see here is completely typical for an SE cable service.


 used them all the time in Maine, they have the rubber compression grommett inside? very common there, have never seen one used in florida


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> OK, troll.


Gee Pete.. you like to dish it out but can't take it when it comes back at you..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Tell you what B4T. I have to go back there on Monday and reconnect the Gentran and meet the inspector. If I pull out one of the clips and show you that the shingles are not split, will you admit you are wrong and that you are a troll?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Gee Pete.. you like to dish it out but can't take it when it comes back at you..


When I dish it out, it's for something legitimate. You're picking on something silly because you have nothing else to pick on.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Tell you what B4T. I have to go back there on Monday and reconnect the Gentran and meet the inspector. If I pull out one of the clips and show you that the shingles are not split, will you admit you are wrong and that you are a troll?


You should not of put the straps that close to the edge in the first place.. don't waste your time trying to "prove" it.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> You should not of put the straps that close to the edge in the first place.. don't waste your time trying to "prove" it.. :no:


You're only proving you are a troll. I offer you a challenge and you back down. What a surprise. :laughing:


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Grimlock said:


> SEU sounds nice and cheap.. If you used SEU in Texas the inspector would stare wide eye for a second or two.... turn... and stab you with his pen... No questions asked.


Same here. 

Must be a Northern thing, akin to running a uf whip to an ac unit is a Southern thing..which it isn't, at least it's not around here.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Looks good to me :thumbsup: 
I'd pay you for it.

You could have made it out of gold and gotten criticism amongst these fuc king Gurus.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

gold said:


> Looks good to me :thumbsup:
> I'd pay you for it.
> 
> You could have made it out of gold and gotten criticism amongst these fuc king Gurus.


Too damn funny.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> OK, time for some abuse. Let 'er rip! :thumbup:


 
Hey Pete, you did ask for some abuse, so B4T is only giving you what you asked for!!!!


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Roger123 said:


> Hey Pete, you did ask for some abuse, so B4T is only giving you what you asked for!!!!


:laughing::laughing: True. 

I know if B4T is telling me I'm doing something wrong, then I know I am doing it right. :thumbup:


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> Same here.
> 
> Must be a Northern thing, akin to running a uf whip to an ac unit is a Southern thing..which it isn't, at least it's not around here.


I've never seen any UF ran to AC units around here (Fort Worth). I've seen a lot of do it yourselfers use it for just about anything and everything around the house, always a pain to come in behind them and fix their F-ups AND have to deal with a bunch of UF cramed in an undersized box.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

Roger123 said:


> Hey Pete, you did ask for some abuse, so B4T is only giving you what you asked for!!!!


Yea, you made his saturday when you started this thread! :laughing:


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> :laughing::laughing: True.
> 
> I know if B4T is telling me I'm doing something wrong, then I know I am doing it right. :thumbup:


I think it is nice work, good job!!!


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Roger123 said:


> I think it is nice work, good job!!!


Thanks, I do pretty well for a rookie. :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter, you did a decent job but could have done better. B4T is right about where to screw the straps to the shakes and you could also duct seal around the service head. That's a rookie mistake. :laughing:


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Grimlock said:


> I've never seen any UF ran to AC units around here (Fort Worth). I've seen a lot of do it yourselfers use it for just about anything and everything around the house, always a pain to come in behind them and fix their F-ups AND have to deal with a bunch of UF cramed in an undersized box.


 same here.although I interperate it as being legal, none of our inspectors would allow it here.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Yeah, mine. Turns out the circuit directory was useless so I wasted my time with them. Oh well.


The directories are never right, are they?

I just look for anthing odd like orange grounds/neutrals and identify any 240V circuits. When it goes back together I identify and mark the panel correctly.










It's funny, when the customer sees it all torn apart, they always ask "how do you know what goes where?" I don't want to tell them how easy that part is. You only have two or three choices :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Homeline has an opening at the bottom of their panels specifically for GEC.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Peter, you did a decent job but could have done better. B4T is right about where to screw the straps to the shakes


And I would also guess you don't use SEU cable either. If you did, you would understand why they have to go at the bottom of the siding. 



> and you could also duct seal around the service head. That's a rookie mistake. :laughing:


I'm well aware of duct sealing around the weather head. Now can you tell me what good it will do when water can still wick its way down the bare neutral conductor?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> The directories are never right, are they?


Especially when the panel is stuffed with minis, or a central A/C system has been added and it's obvious the AC contractor did the work and moved stuff around or added minis without changing the directory. In those cases, I can pretty much throw the directory away before I even start.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> And I would also guess you don't use SEU cable either. If you did, you would understand why they have to go at the bottom of the siding.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm well aware of duct sealing around the weather head. Now can you tell me what good it will do when water can still wick its way down the bare neutral conductor?



you make a good point about the size of the lap on the siding but long screws can secure the se to the sheathing beneath. don't you agree?


I only use SE when it means making a sale. if that's what they want, that's what they get. water's still getting down that cable one way or another though. :whistling2:


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


>


Hey 220, do you have wire nuts and tape for insulation on the service wires when you pull the socket off?


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Peter D said:


> And I would also guess you don't use SEU cable either. If you did, you would understand why they have to go at the bottom of the siding.


Another reason not to run SEU.

Maybe that's why the AHJ'S in the South don't allow it.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Roger123 said:


> Hey 220, do you have a wire nuts and tape for insulation on the service wires when you pull the socket off?


POCO put little rubber boots on this one. Sometimes they just tape them. Sometimes they will disconnect them at the transformer or JB.

The older I get and the more I read about the dangers involved, the more I hesitate to work service conductors hot. That job was one of the more dangerous ones I've done. I had to pull the rusty riser off and replace it.

If I'm just setting a new panel over them, I feel it's _kind of_ safe and will do it. Having it disconnected makes it so much less stressful though..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> you make a good point about the size of the lap on the siding but long screws can secure the se to the sheathing beneath. don't you agree?


Yes, I agree, but I want the cable to lay flat. If I move the clip up a little bit as B4T says I should, it will suck the cable in too much and make it ripple along the house. It's ok to move the clip up when you're using PVC and it's not going to suck the pipe in because it's rigid, but with SEU it makes all the difference it looking good and looking like trash. With 4/0 it won't suck it in much at all, but it will look stupid having the clip hang off the cable held in by a longer screw with a gap behind it, because the clip is exactly big enough for the cable and there is no play in it. So you can say I'm making rookie mistakes all you want, but I have a reason for the things I do. 



> I only use SE when it means making a sale. if that's what they want, that's what they get. water's still getting down that cable one way or another though. :whistling2:


The main failure point for SEU cable is the gland at the top of the meter and the sill. Seal those off good and you won't have a problem.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jefft110 said:


> Another reason not to run SEU.
> 
> Maybe that's why the AHJ'S in the South don't allow it.


Jeff, what do you normally use in SC?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> Another reason not to run SEU.
> 
> Maybe that's why the AHJ'S in the South don't allow it.


It works well for the vast majority of homes in my area and has been commonplace for decades, so I'm going to stick with it.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Yes, I agree, but I want the cable to lay flat. If I move the clip up a little bit as B4T says I should, it will suck the cable in too much and make it ripple along the house. It's ok to move the clip up when you're using PVC and it's not going to suck the pipe in because it's rigid, but with SEU it makes all the difference it looking good and looking like trash. With 4/0 it won't suck it in much at all, but it will look stupid having the clip hang off the cable held in by a longer screw with a gap behind it, because the clip is exactly big enough for the cable and there is no play in it. So you can say I'm making rookie mistakes all you want, but I have a reason for the things I do.
> 
> 
> 
> The main failure point for SEU cable is the gland at the top of the meter and the sill. Seal those off good and you won't have a problem.



You could also have a HUGE problem with water on where the cable enters the house. 


I do like how you evenly space the straps. it makes it look sharp. some guys never think of that. spacing makes a huge difference.


----------



## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Jeff, what do you normally use in SC?


THHN in sch. 80.


----------



## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Peter D said:


> It works well for the vast majority of homes in my area and has been commonplace for decades, so I'm going to stick with it.


Can't see it from my house.:whistling2:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> You could also have a HUGE problem with water on where the cable enters the house.


Yeah, the sill. I said that. :laughing: That's why I always use silicone and I don't spare it either.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Yeah, the sill. I said that. :laughing: That's why I always use silicone and I don't spare it either.


Is that like a cable sill?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Is that like a cable sill?


Don't you call the part of the framing where the cable or conduit typically enters the sill?


----------



## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


> POCO put little rubber boots on this one. Sometimes they just tape them. Sometimes they will disconnect them at the transformer or JB.
> 
> The older I get and the more I read about the dangers involved, the more I hesitate to work service conductors hot. That job was one of the more dangerous ones I've done. I had to pull the rusty riser off and replace it.
> 
> If I'm just setting a new panel over them, I feel it's _kind of_ safe and will do it. Having it disconnected makes it so much less stressful though..


 
I'm not complaining about the wires being hot. Just wondering how you insulated them. I think the laterals are more dangerous working hot than the overhead drops.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Don't you call the part of the framing where the cable or conduit typically enters the sill?



I think you're thinking of the rim joist. :thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I think you're thinking of the rim joist. :thumbsup:


Must be a regional thing. I've never heard it called that before. We always call it the sill.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I did a Homeline today. Crappy pic but.....










I know....no connectors (snap in bushings only). That's how we roll out west :thumbup:

Existing circuits on the left, new ones on the right.

Had to chop out some drywall and add a 240V *30A* micro circuit. The AZ style installation made it easy. Plenty of room for another cable or two :thumbsup:

Forgot the panel cover (at the warehouse) :jester:













> I want the cable to lay flat. If I move the clip up a little bit as B4T says I should, it will suck the cable in too much and make it ripple along the house


That's my thought as well. If you are going to staple a 200 amp extension cord to the outside of a wood framed, shake sided house, you might as well make it look straight. :lol


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Must be a regional thing. I've never heard it called that before. We always call it the sill.


the rim joist sits on the sill. the sill is a barrier between the foundation and wooden framing members (joists). you wouldn't want to drill through it if you could help it.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I did a Homeline today. Crappy pic but.....
> 
> 
> I know....no connectors (snap in bushings only). That's how we roll out west :thumbup:
> ...


Nice job, Arizona style! :thumbup:

Don't you normally use Siemens?


----------



## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> the rim joist sits on the sill. the sill is a barrier between the foundation and wooden framing members (joists). you wouldn't want to drill through it if you could help it.


 funny how "regional" these names actually are. we have allways called the board on top of the concrete the "sill plate", then the space between that and the floor, the"sill" and the "rim joist" didnt start until the second floor framing met the first.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter, thanks for the pics. Its good to see you're working. I'm sure your mom appreciates it.

Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Wow! :laughing:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Nice job, Arizona style! :thumbup:
> 
> Don't you normally use Siemens?


 
I do.


This job needed a 400A meter main and a 200A interior panel. I picked the Cutler Hammer meter main and Homeline interior panel at The Depot for about $300 less than the supply house and I had a stockpile of Homeline breakers.

Times are still tough here and every 100 bucks I save is *huge*. Once I go thru my scrap copper 3/0 amnd 4/0 thwn, I am going to AL service conductors.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Peter, thanks for the pics. Its good to see you're working. I'm sure your mom appreciates it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


Do you mean so she has some time to herself? Or so he can chip in for grocery's?


----------



## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> Do you mean so she has some time to herself? Or so he can chip in for grocery's?


 WOW!! Y'all are brutal.


----------



## NMJockey (Apr 9, 2011)

How come 230.50 (B)(1) does not apply to this? Isn't it subject to physical damage? :001_huh:
230.50(B)(1) states:

*service cables*. Service cables, where subject to physical damage, shall be protected by any of the following:
(1) Rigid metal conduit
(2) Intermediate metal conduit
(3) sch 80 pvc conduit
(4)EMT
(5) other approved means



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Doesn't look like it's subject to physical damage to me.


----------



## NMJockey (Apr 9, 2011)

Does the AHJ determine that?


----------



## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

220/221 said:


> I did a Homeline today. Crappy pic but.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are an awesome electrician, but that is not "how we roll" West of
where you are.

It would not have been difficult to actually meet code and use romex
conductors in the top of the Homeline panel. It would have been really
easy.

I don't mean any disrespect - just my opinion.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> l


Unprofessional hack work, both the lack of NM connectors and the cardboard protection.

No excuse at all for not using NM connectors other than being lazy and cheap.


----------



## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Work zone:



what, no sill plate?


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I won't even comment on the last service. But as for seu for a service it is used everywhere around here. I was taught you pack the service head with duct seal, fold the wires down pack it again and put on the cover. Never leaks. The connector in the top of the mater pan also gets caulked with duct seal over top because the inspectors are used to seeing duct seal. Again never leaks. The seu entering the house gets caulked, no different than pipe. If it leaks it would leak just the same as pipe.

As for the straps and screws, I was always a big fan of the aluminum wrap around strap. If the service gets taken out by a tree in a storm, the cable gets pulled free from the house without any damage. In cedar you run the screw in reverse until it drills itself past the cedar then you put it forward and secure to sheathing. It does not mater where you put the screw.

I would use seu everywhere except on the driveway side of the house where it would be subject to physical damage. Then I would use ridged galvanized steel.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Peter, thanks for the pics. Its good to see you're working. I'm sure your mom appreciates it.


Not much to say about this other than we all know what kind of guy Marc really is.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

cabletie said:


> I was taught you pack the service head with duct seal, fold the wires down pack it again and put on the cover. Never leaks. The connector in the top of the mater pan also gets caulked with duct seal over top because the inspectors are used to seeing duct seal. Again never leaks. The seu entering the house gets caulked, no different than pipe. If it leaks it would leak just the same as pipe.


Duct seal is garbage. I would never use it on a service. 

Again, please explain to me what good putting duct seal in the weatherhead is going to do. Does rain travel from the ground up? :confused1: The conductors have a drip loop in them. I've taken down a gazillion services with no duct seal in the weatherhead and the cable was fine. It failed because they didn't seal off the meter socket or sill plate properly.


----------



## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I did a Homeline today. Crappy pic but.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, Your a hack, I know that 334.80 doesn't specifically say it, but there isn't much difference in bringing over 24 CCC's through a single opening crammed together like that. I really doubt you did the derating on any of them, never mind all. 

You could still use snap-ins and get the job done faster, better, maintaining the INTENT of the code.:no:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> what, no sill plate?


I couldn't have gotten one on even if I wanted to. I tried pushing the cable in with the butt of my sledgehammer but to no avail without severely compromising the bend radius of the cable. I siliconed it up good and called it a day.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Pete, nice job. :thumbup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Pete, nice job. :thumbup:


Thanks. :thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

So what did I learn from this thread? 

Without a doubt B4T is a troll. No question in my mind anymore. 

To the rest, thanks for your compliments. It's much appreciated. :thumbup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Pete, it looks OK.  I hope you charged more than $5K. :laughing:

BTW, I think you are missing a required strap under the meter.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Pete, it looks OK.  I hope you charged more than $5K. :laughing:


I'm not quite there yet. Someday, hopefully. :laughing:



> BTW, I think you are missing a required strap under the meter.


See post #122. I thought of that after I was pushing the cable into the house. I should have moved the meter up a little higher to get the bend radius down a bit. Oh well.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I would have used a two hole strap, long screws and not tighten them all the way.

Presto, code compliant. 


(I also might have over bent the SE over my knee until it would spring back to a 90 before sliding it into the house.)


----------



## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

Looks good. 

The only time I see SE used around here is on very old houses. The POCO's require conduit and #4 bare for GEC. The POCO's here actually require 2 ground rods regardless of what other electrodes you have and the GEC for the rods have to be landed in the meter can.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Peter D said:


> Duct seal is garbage. I would never use it on a service.
> 
> Again, please explain to me what good putting duct seal in the weatherhead is going to do. Does rain travel from the ground up? :confused1: The conductors have a drip loop in them. I've taken down a gazillion services with no duct seal in the weatherhead and the cable was fine. It failed because they didn't seal off the meter socket or sill plate properly.


 
I guess you have never seen what wind driven rain can do, or have never been on a service call where you can see the water coming down from the weather head inside the jacket of the seu? Well I have on several occasions. I also duct seal a conduit weather head, or caulk where the wire goes thru the holes. I have seen and heard of jobs failing when no duct seal was used on the seu connector. It always seemed stupid when the seu connector is supposed to be listed for this use, but I never wanted to go back and put on duct seal because it failed.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I would have used a two hole strap, long screws and not tighten them all the way.
> 
> Presto, code compliant.


True. Ok, you got me for something legitimate. Maybe if I'm feeling ambitious I'll do that on Monday. Or maybe not. :laughing:



> (I also might have over bent the SE over my knee until it would spring back to a 90 before sliding it into the house.)


Thanks, I'll try that next time.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Any one here that has seu as a common wiring method in there area and does service work will have seen the damage a two hole strap with #10 screws holding it in can do to a cable when it gets ripped down in a storm. I don't have any statistics how many have caused fires, but have gone around and put a lot of seu back up. Wrap-a-round straps you put the cable back up with a new weather head. Two hole straps you replace the cable and the weather head. I know there is more money in replacing the cable but would rather have the wrap-a round strap.


----------



## cal1947 (Nov 14, 2009)

*tofer*

is that a before or after


Peter D said:


> OK, time for some abuse. Let 'er rip! :thumbup:
> 
> This is the after shot. :laughing:
> 
> ...


----------



## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Looks good to me. For the SEU going through the sill, I'd have used a sill plate as stated before me. The key is to slightly oversize the hole at the siding then step to a tighter hole at a slight downward angle for the cable to pass though, this usually gives the cable a chance to make that bend. Especially 4/0 AL SEU. 

I use SEU when it will looks appropriate all the time myself. Although lately I've been hitting the PVC + XHHW more often, I think it's just as fast and maybe a few dollars more. Though the SEU on the bottom side usually simplifies connection to the panel in the basement.

Good job.

I also agree on the strap placement, got to put them on the bottom so the cable lays flat.

Tom


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Looks good! Around here you can't have romex on the surface unless above the level of 8'. So all the NM would have to be sleeved in flex or have a small chase framed around the panel. We are not allowed SU cable here either, I would be curios how it would stand up to hot dry summer and super cold wet winter?


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

JohnR said:


> Dude, Your a hack, I know that 334.80 doesn't specifically say it, but there isn't much difference in bringing over 24 CCC's through a single opening crammed together like that. I really doubt you did the derating on any of them, never mind all.
> 
> You could still use snap-ins and get the job done faster, better, maintaining the INTENT of the code.:no:


You don;t have to derate them unless its 24" or more that they are bundled. You can't do it that way here either but I think its fine. Also as long as the NM is stapled within 12" snap in bushings are fine.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

davis9 said:


> Looks good to me. For the SEU going through the sill, I'd have used a sill plate as stated before me. The key is to slightly oversize the hole at the siding then step to a tighter hole at a slight downward angle for the cable to pass though, this usually gives the cable a chance to make that bend. Especially 4/0 AL SEU.


I only use sill plates if the hole is really messed up and needs to be covered. Otherwise, it's another $12 I save by not using one, and I think it looks better without it. 



> Good job.


Thanks. :thumbsup:



> I also agree on the strap placement, got to put them on the bottom so the cable lays flat.


And that's why I pointed out to the people who were criticizing me for the strap placement that it's obvious they have no experience with SEU cable.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Putting the screws in the middle of the wood siding would cause the cable to be pulled to the angle that the siding slopes, so when seen from the side it would be wavy. Because the front edge of all the pieces are in line, strapping toward the bottom of the shingle would let the cable stay nice and straight.

P.S.: The POCO wouldn't hook up to a new service done in SE here. I see them on old houses, but they are usually older than the rules they now have against it.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

tates1882 said:


> Looks good!


Thanks. :thumbsup:



> Around here you can't have romex on the surface unless above the level of 8'. So all the NM would have to be sleeved in flex or have a small chase framed around the panel.


That's just plain silly. 



> I would be curios how it would stand up to hot dry summer and super cold wet winter?


It stands up just fine for decades. In my first pic, the original piece was replaced in 1985. As you can see, it's still perfectly intact. The piece on the bottom, installed 1969...not so much. It was wrapped in cloth which goes bad, but the inner conductors were still fine.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Putting the screws in the middle of the wood siding would cause the cable to be pulled to the angle that the siding slopes, so when seen from the side it would be wavy. Because the front edge of all the pieces are in line, strapping toward the bottom of the shingle would let the cable stay nice and straight.


Yes, and I think by now it's obvious that B4T was just trolling me with his critiques.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

cal1947 said:


> is that a before or after


After obviously. I ripped out a 200 amp service and replaced with with 40+ year old 100 amp parts.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Duct seal is garbage. I would never use it on a service.
> 
> Again, please explain to me what good putting duct seal in the weatherhead is going to do. Does rain travel from the ground up? :confused1: The conductors have a drip loop in them. I've taken down a gazillion services with no duct seal in the weatherhead and the cable was fine. It failed because they didn't seal off the meter socket or sill plate properly.


Peter, Peter, Peter....


where is the only place on the service where the conductors are exposed.

The service head! 

Yes, water can get in at the fitting atop the meter but the only place those conductors are exposed are by the service connection. 

Wind > rain > water gets in. :whistling2:


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Its code complient, happy customer and you made some money....done..sure everyone would probably do something different, so what...


----------



## hotwire1955 (Jan 27, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> THHN in sch. 80.


 That will get you a red sticker here. Thhn is listed for dry and damp locations.


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

hotwire1955 said:


> That will get you a red sticker here. Thhn is listed for dry and damp locations.


It's usually dual rated. THHN/THWN


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> How come 230.50 (B)(1) does not apply to this? Isn't it subject to physical damage? :001_huh:


Because _subject to physical damage_ is wide open to interpetation.



> Doesn't look like it's subject to physical damage to me.


See what I mean ^

It looks dangerous to me but that's just how the hillbillies do it :laughing:



> Does the AHJ determine that?


Yes



> It would not have been difficult to actually meet code and use romex
> conductors in the top of the Homeline panel. *It would have been really*
> *easy.*


But it's cleaner and easier to bring them in the same KO and, IMO, just as good of a job. The cables aren't going anywhere. It's all framed in and they are secured. 

I've done it both ways. The last one I used connectors and didn't have enough KO's in the top of the panel.











> I don't mean any disrespect - just my opinion.


And I appreciate your opinion. Thank you.



> Unprofessional hack work, both the lack of NM connectors and the cardboard protection.
> 
> No excuse at all for not using NM connectors other than being lazy and cheap.


No excuse at all for being a pompous fat bastard. We all have our demons.



> Dude, Your a hack, I know that 334.80 doesn't specifically say it, but there isn't much difference in bringing over 24 CCC's through a single opening crammed together like that. I really doubt you did the derating on any of them, never mind all.
> 
> You could still use snap-ins and get the job done faster, better, *maintaining the INTENT of the code*


Now, if it weren't for the first sentence, I would simply discuss the issue. Now I feel obliged to return you insult. I'll get to that later.


*First. *The derating issue that you have only *read about* and blindly accept as an fact. 

There are *no problems* bringing cables intogether like this. It's been done here since the 50's. I have taken apart and replaced *hundreds* of panels in the most brutal hot conditions that exist. I have never, ever seen any kind of damage of signs of overheating.....ever.

This is a first hand fact, not speculation or theory.



*Second*. The intent of the code is two fold. 

1) to protect the cable from chafing on the metal enclosure.
2) to secure the cable.

The cables are 1) secure and 2) protected.

*Third*. I still don't have a proper insult for you. Give me some more time.




> That will get you a red sticker here. Thhn is listed for dry and damp locations


I'm sure he meant THHN/THWN. It's been years since the change and I still use the term THHN. I don't even think they make straight THHN anmore.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

captkirk said:


> Its code complient, happy customer and you made some money....done..sure everyone would probably do something different, so what...


Bingo. Some of the comments here are bizzarre. What I like about Peters work is that it is real. A good job done at hopefully a good price. Done well enough to be safe and make money and not just to impress a bunch of guys sitting in their moms basement pecking away on their keyboard citing silly violations and how to screw into a wood shingle.

I bet half the commenter's here have never even done a service upgrade. :laughing:

Most importantly, Pete has the Balls to show his work here knowing full well what the result will be. :thumbsup:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I did a Homeline today. Crappy pic but.....


:laughing:, Looks good


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

If you go through this thread and delete all the sh!t talking gurus that have never posted there own work you would be left with maybe 3 or 4 valuable opinions. 

Just saying if your going to criticize someone else post some of your own work.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Bingo. Some of the comments here are bizzarre. What I like about Peters work is that it is real. A good job done at hopefully a good price. Done well enough to be safe and make money and not just to impress a bunch of guys sitting in their moms basement pecking away on their keyboard citing silly violations and how to screw into a wood shingle.
> 
> I bet half the commenter's here have never even done a service upgrade. :laughing:
> 
> Most importantly, Pete has the Balls to show his work here knowing full well what the result will be. :thumbsup:


All true. How come we don't see more pictures from other electricians?


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> All true. How come we don't see more pictures from other electricians?


We work too hard to stop and take pictures. Plus we forget to take pictures or just plain don't care. I'll see if I have any on my computer.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> All true. How come we don't see more pictures from other electricians?


Last time I posted service pics they were photo-shopped so I could be shown how to run that pipe the right way!! :laughing:


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

This is the only one I can find. Have fun.


----------



## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Most importantly, Pete has the Balls to show his work here knowing full well what the result will be. :thumbsup:


 
I agree with this!


----------



## moons657 (May 10, 2011)

Any chance any of you'd want to translate some words you's are using.
Gec=??
poco=??
I'm trying to get the hang of the way thongs are wired over there, do yous connect up the service yourselves??

from Keith in Ireland


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

moons657 said:


> Any chance any of you'd want to translate some words you's are using.
> Gec=??
> poco=??
> I'm trying to get the hang of the way thongs are wired over there, do yous connect up the service yourselves??
> ...


GEC=Grounded Electrode Conductor
POCO=POwer COmpany


----------



## moons657 (May 10, 2011)

MF Dagger said:


> GEC=Grounded Electrode Conductor
> POCO=POwer COmpany


Thanking you

from Keith in Ireland


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

moons657 said:


> Any chance any of you'd want to translate some words you's are using.
> Gec=??
> poco=??
> I'm trying to get the hang of the way thongs are wired over there, do yous connect up the service yourselves??
> ...


 I do not know about about the U S A, but here in Canada, THONGS are not usually wired!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> So what did I learn from this thread?
> 
> Without a doubt B4T is a troll. No question in my mind anymore.
> 
> To the rest, thanks for your compliments. It's much appreciated. :thumbup:


That is your only come back about making stupid rookie mistakes.. :no:

You obviously don't understand the mechanics about SEU straps.. so I will explain it to you.. 

The SEU is supported on the top by the screw on the service head.. it is hung from that point..

The other end of the SEU is supported by the watertight connector in the meter pan and the conductors terminated on the lugs..

In between the straps only have to hold the SEU in place and keep it straight..

They don't support any weight.. so there is no reason you have to send them home so much that it bends the SEU.. 

I hope you have learned from this..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> That is your only come back about making stupid rookie mistakes.. :no:
> 
> You obviously don't understand the mechanics about SEU straps.. so I will explain it to you..
> 
> ...


Yeah, just keep trolling. I have learned you are a troll.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

moons657 said:


> Any chance any of you'd want to translate some words you's are using.
> Gec=??
> poco=??
> I'm trying to get the hang of the way thongs are wired over there, do yous connect up the service yourselves??
> ...


 I do. But there are many that dont.. Im not saying one way is better than the other but every EC i worked for had us do it, so Im pretty comfortable doing it.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

MF Dagger said:


> This is the only one I can find. Have fun.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Another thing you might want to work on is the way you demo the old service.. 

Next time disconnect all the circuit breakers and remove the buss before starting the disconnect on the neutral bar..

For some reason you only took the breakers off one side and then worked on the neutrals..

Taking the "guts" out completely gives you more room to work and less chance of catching a finger on the buss..

But I am sure you have some wild excuse for not working "smart".. :no:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yeah, just keep trolling. I have learned you are a troll.


Call me what you like.. but I don't split the wood shingles installing:laughing::thumbup::laughing: straps.. 

I'm surprised you didn't mention my buried PVC boxes again.. maybe you are saving it for my other post.. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> But I am sure you have some wild excuse for not working "smart".. :no:


:laughing:

I've moved from being 99% convinced to 100% convinced you are a troll. Will the real B4T please stand up?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> :laughing:
> 
> I've moved from being 99% convinced to 100% convinced you are a troll. Will the real B4T please stand up?


Too bad what I am saying makes perfect sense.. please try again later.. :thumbsup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Too bad what I am saying makes perfect sense.. please try again later.. :thumbsup:


Perfect sense in your mind, other than that not so much. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Perfect sense in your mind, other than that not so much. :laughing:


What part confuses you.. I will type slower.. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Too bad what I am saying makes perfect sense.. please try again later.. :thumbsup:


I find it amusing that you're lecturing me on how to support SEU cable when you don't even use it. That's pretty ignorant.

It's just like when you gave McClary a hard time for using a palm nailer. If McClary says it's faster, I'm listening. But you had nothing better to do but troll him and make fun of him for it.

Conclusion= B4T is a troll.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> What part confuses you


Your mind. :thumbsup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Your mind. :thumbsup:


So you think placement of screws on wood shingles is not important and the way an old panel is taken apart is not important.. 

I understand you wanting to back up Pete.. but at least say something that makes sense.. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I find it amusing that you're lecturing me on how to support SEU cable when you don't even use it. That's pretty ignorant.
> 
> It's just like when you gave McClary a hard time for using a palm nailer. If McClary says it's faster, I'm listening. But you had nothing better to do but troll him and make fun of him for it.
> 
> Conclusion= B4T is a troll.


I have used SEU cable before.. the installation of it doesn't change with time.. 

The palm nailer is slower than a hammer.. so the problem lies with the guy using the hammer wrong.. IMO


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have used SEU cable before.. the installation of it doesn't change with time..
> 
> The palm nailer is slower than a hammer.. so the problem lies with the guy using the hammer wrong.. IMO


More troll nonsense.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

You two need to get a room and release al the sexual tension between you.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> You two need to get a room and release al the sexual tension between you.


More troll nonsense.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

When I play softball, there is *often *a lot af smack talk and insults going back and forth but, at the end of the night, everybody shakes hands and lets it go.

Im just sayin....


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> When I play softball, there is *often *a lot af smack talk and insults going back and forth but, at the end of the night, everybody shakes hands and lets it go.
> 
> Im just sayin....


I stand by what I said. B4T is a troll. He's playing a game.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


> When I play softball, there is *often *a lot af smack talk and insults going back and forth but, at the end of the night, everybody shakes hands and lets it go.
> 
> Im just sayin....


Drink up!


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I know this is totally foreign to people outside of the northeast US, but what you see here is completely typical for an SE cable service.


Peter this is the exact same way we do overhead services in Northern VA as well. And I agree that B4T is just hating on you right now. I think he doesn't like the glory you are getting right now. Nice pictures and work. Looks good.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

here is the one I did in my basement the service is 10 yrs. old the solar inverter is 8 months.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> Another reason not to run SEU.
> 
> Maybe that's why the AHJ'S in the South don't allow it.


I'm in the south and SEU is all I've ever seen on any house, ever.....:thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yeah, the sill. I said that. :laughing: That's why I always use silicone and I don't spare it either.


I've always just used duct seal and never had problems with water leaking in.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

i have used seu for services all the time in maine.. but when i moved to FL. they laughed at me., i dont "really" think one is better than the other, one is cheaper andless protective,the other costs a little more and is a little more protective


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

cabletie said:


> here is the one I did in my basement the service is 10 yrs. old the solar inverter is 8 months.


Looks good!! I am surprised tho that they let you put the revenue (net) meter in the house.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Peter this is the exact same way we do overhead services in Northern VA as well. And I agree that B4T is just hating on you right now. I think he doesn't like the glory you are getting right now. Nice pictures and work. Looks good.


Thanks. :thumbsup:

I agree, B4T doesn't like that he can't be the center of attention right now. :laughing:



steelersman said:


> I've always just used duct seal and never had problems with water leaking in.


Duct seal starts out fine and makes a good sealant, but over time it dries out and becomes useless, particularly if it's exposed to sunlight.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

i love duct seal,very versatile little blob of dough.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

cabletie said:


>


I see the GEC coming out of the dc disco bypassing the meter. Did the poco make you use the (MGS) Nuetral to bond the net meter pan?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

rnr electric said:


> i love duct seal,very versatile little blob of dough.


It has a place, but I avoid it whenever it will be exposed to sunlight and on services. I do use it to seal behind bell boxes and stuff like that.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Thanks. :thumbsup:
> 
> I agree, B4T doesn't like that he can't be the center of attention right now. :laughing:
> 
> ...


 just curious, how long is "over time", i have seen the outer layer dry up but the inner usually dries like "semi hard concrete". but i havent dealt with it a whole bunch for long period of years


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

rnr electric said:


> just curious, how long is "over time", i have seen the outer layer dry up but the inner usually dries like "semi hard concrete". but i havent dealt with it a whole bunch for long period of years


About 10 years or so and it's pretty much dried out and shrunk, to the point where water can start leaking into the meter socket or panel if it was used to seal around the cable going into the house.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Something interesting pops up and you fukking trolls bury it under blabbering bullsh!t about duct seal. Seriously STFU your both trolls.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Peter D said:


> About 10 years or so and it's pretty much dried out and shrunk, to the point where water can start leaking into the meter socket or panel if it was used to seal around the cable going into the house.


 ok,i have never encountered this problem,(or maybe never paid attention) but if there is any shrinkage at all i can see where it could happen for sure


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

gold said:


> Something interesting pops up and you fukking trolls bury it under blabbering bullsh!t about duct seal. Seriously STFU your both trolls.


Start a new thread. This one has runs its course, obviously.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

gold said:


> Something interesting pops up and you ****ing trolls bury it under blabbering bullsh!t about duct seal. Seriously STFU your both trolls.


 not sure who you were talking about, i was just inquiring about duct seal


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

gold said:


> Looks good!! I am surprised tho that they let you put the revenue (net) meter in the house.


I did not know you could'nt, it all passed. four of my co-workers are the same way. I did find out I did not need a net meter until it is over 10kw. it is only a 5 kw. the neutral is wire nuted in the meter pan and the egc is on the center terminal. this is in jcp&l territory


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Homeline has an opening at the bottom of their panels specifically for GEC.


That's a 1/4" drain hole.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> That's a 1/4" drain hole.


Actually it is for the GEC, many panels have a 1/4" KO just for GECs.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Actually it is for the GEC, many panels have a 1/4" KO just for GECs.


Murray panels have both.. but the 1/4" hole is almost in the middle..

The larger hole is at the corner and part of a multi KO..


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> I don't want to nit pick .. but the #6 on the side of the panel *should of been brought into the bottom instead of the side..*


And that would have been dumb....it was not long enough to come into the bottom without a severe bend _*and*_ being spliced....



Peter D said:


> Too many.  I way underestimated it. Cleaning up the panel took way more time than I though. 10 hours total, but *I haven't hooked the Gentran back up because I have no clue where the circuits went,* and the homeowner wants to rearrange it.


Sorry Peter, not buying it as I can clearly see the lettered tags on your circuits in the new panel. :laughing:

Great job though, you sure turned a bag of s**t into a fertilized garden. :thumbup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mxslick said:


> you sure turned a bag of s**t into a fertilized garden. :thumbup:


and this is the place to find organic fertilizer. :jester:


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Peter D said:


> Must be a regional thing. I've never heard it called that before. We always call it the sill.


The 2x6 (typical) laid flat on top of a block or poured foundation wall is a "mudsill" or "sill". It lands the joists. The 2x(joist size) lumber on top of it, oriented vertically, that faces off the joists is a rim joist.


I agree with your shingle-splittin' clamp location too. And really, there's no problem installing anything on shakes or shingles if you use a <gasp> pilot hole larger than the screw. A dab of silicone on the hole is good practice, as well as using stainless hardware to minimize staining, though most is hidden by the cable itself.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

mxslick said:


> Sorry Peter, not buying it as I can clearly see the lettered tags on your circuits in the new panel. :laughing:


No, for real. I tagged what was based on the directory already there. The H.O. got home and told me that the directory was "50% accurate" so basically wasted time tagging wires that didn't even go to where they said they did. Oh well. 



> Great job though, you sure turned a bag of s**t into a fertilized garden. :thumbup:


Nah, I'm just a rookie making rookie mistakes. :thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mxslick said:


> And that would have been dumb....it was not long enough to come into the bottom without a severe bend _*and*_ being spliced....


Mx.. you must need glasses.. :no:

He could of used a romex connector and come in the bottom at the right side corner..

The ground would of been long enough to reach.. IMO..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Update: I failed the inspection! :thumbup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

It was the exposed SE, wasn't it :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> It was the exposed SE, wasn't it :laughing:


You're a worse troll than B4T with that. :no:


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> Mx.. you must need glasses.. :no:
> 
> He could of used a romex connector and come in the bottom at the right side corner..
> 
> The ground would of been long enough to reach.. IMO..



Nope, sorry sir, you are wrong. 

The new panel is longer than the old one and it still wouldn't have reached. 

And since Peter grouped the higher amperage breakers closest to the main he would have had to splice the hots. 

Of course it's easy for both of us to sit here and second-guess since we didn't do the work....:laughing:



PeterD said:


> You're a worse troll than B4T with that. :no:


He (220/221) is on my ignore list.....:laughing: ....unfortunately his pearls of wisdom show up when he is quoted by others.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Update: I failed the inspection! :thumbup:


So ........... what was the fail for?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

I say either the missing strap under the meter or the seu that close to the window.

Kudos for having the balls to admit it.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

gold said:


> I say either the missing strap under the meter or the seu that close to the window.
> 
> Kudos for having the balls to admit it.


That looks far enough from the window to me. It only needs to be 3 feet


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

cabletie said:


> I did not know you could'nt, it all passed. four of my co-workers are the same way. I did find out I did not need a net meter until it is over 10kw. it is only a 5 kw. the neutral is wire nuted in the meter pan and the egc is on the center terminal. this is in jcp&l territory


I have had issues with it in the past. mainly with PSE&G They usually want the net meter next to the utility meter and a separate disco outside to serve as a fire switch. You know how they are with not allowing an egc in there pan so they try to make you bond the pan with the branch ckt neutral serving the inverter. They fought me hard on 4 different installs. There supposed to be changing there requirements because there spec book actually shows the violation but we will see. JCP&L isn't as bad because they don't really care where you put it. PSE&G reads it every month if you sell them your SREC under contract.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Work zone:


Looks like about 3 inches to me. But I could be off a few feet I guess.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

gold said:


> Looks like about 3 inches to me. But I could be off a few feet I guess.


There is no rule prohibiting that cable from being beside the window. 



> 230.9 Clearances on Buildings. Service conductors and
> final spans shall comply with 230.9(A), (B), and (C).
> 
> (A) Clearances. Service conductors installed as open conductors
> ...


SE has an overall outer jacket.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

BBQ'll straighten you out.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

BBQ said:


> There is no rule prohibiting that cable from being beside the window.
> 
> 
> 
> SE has an overall outer jacket.


No. There isn't I'm referring to how we break down what is and isn't considered exposed to physical damage here. A few examples would be driveway, sidewalk and anywhere that can be reached from an open window. Those areas requiring protection from physical damage (schd 40) I had an issue with it once exactly the same situation and the AHJ was able to produce a reference with a definition. I will see if I can find it. 

I think its a stretch as well but there it is.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Update: I failed the inspection! :thumbup:


OH come on now! Was the fail for the location of the SE straps?


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Schedule 40 is no better than se cable as far as the code is concerned.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

MF Dagger said:


> Schedule 40 is no better than se cable as far as the code is concerned.


except for where its exposed to physical damage.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

gold said:


> except for where its exposed to physical damage.


Can you clarify that? SE cable shall not be used where subject to physical damage.
PVC shall not be used where subject to physical damage unless it is identified for that use. Schedule 80 is identified for that but schedule 40 is not.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

And in the real world I agree that schedule 40 is probably better than SE for physical damage, but that's not how it reads in the code from how I read it.


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## NMJockey (Apr 9, 2011)

Hey peter D I was just wondering are you a one man shop or what is the status of your company? P.S is that a 24' extenstion ladder? I want one so bad lol


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

Peter D said:


> Update: I failed the inspection! :thumbup:


Was it for the point of attachment being the weather head?:jester:

Was it for splicing in the panel?:jester:

I did not notice if there was a #6 going to that ground rod. Maybe?:jester:

I cannot believe that they do not want the SEU sleeved till atleast 8' above grade. 

I like the fact that you can come on here and say that you failed the inspection... you really do not care what people think do you? I like that about you.:thumbup: ****em if they can't take a joke.:rockon:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Troll'd .


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

mxslick said:


> He (220/221) is on my ignore list......


Why, cause he doens't replace still usable equipment and clutter up landfills with more electrical crap?


----------



## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

gold said:


> Kudos for having the balls to admit it.


I give you credit too...

just curious as to what did not pass


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

No, I really did get a red tag. But not for the reasons any of you are thinking. You know how the inspectors say "I will be there between x and y" time? Well, he got there before I got there yesterday morning before I got a chance to hook up the Gentran (1 hr job) so I failed for it not being connected. He was nice and waived the reinspection fee though. :thumbup:

I wish they would nail down an exact time when they would be there.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I wish they would nail down an exact time when they would be there.


Working here is easy compared to what hoops you have to jump through..

I can fax in my paperwork and the inspector is on his own from there on..

He has to call HO to set up the time for inspection.. :thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Island Electric said:


> Was it for the point of attachment being the weather head?:jester:
> 
> Was it for splicing in the panel?:jester:


:blink::blink:



> I did not notice if there was a #6 going to that ground rod. Maybe?:jester:


It's there. 



> I cannot believe that they do not want the SEU sleeved till atleast 8' above grade.


Unless you live in a community of axe-wielding maniacs who go around chopping up people's services, SEU cable stands up fine for decade after decade around here without any problem. There is no need to sleeve it except extreme paranoia from those who have no experience with it. 



> I like the fact that you can come on here and say that you failed the inspection... you really do not care what people think do you? I like that about you.:thumbup: ****em if they can't take a joke.:rockon:


None of us are perfect, with the exception of BBQ. He is definitely perfect. :thumbup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

NMJockey said:


> Hey peter D I was just wondering are you a one man shop or what is the status of your company? P.S is that a 24' extenstion ladder? I want one so bad lol


Yeah, one man hacking band. :laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The wording "physical damage" has been mentioned a few times in this thread..

People really don't go walking around looking for exposed gray cable on the side of a house and attack it with a hammer.. 

Everything we install in a house is exposed to physical damage if some nut case is on a search and destroy mission..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> The wording "physical damage" has been mentioned a few times in this thread..
> 
> People really don't go walking around looking for exposed gray cable on the side of a house and attack it with a hammer..
> 
> Everything we install in a house is exposed to physical damage if some nut case is on a search and destroy mission..


Something we agree on.  I thought you said we would never agree?


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Something we agree on.


 
Hell hath frozen over.



> People really don't go walking around looking for exposed gray cable on the side of a house and attack it with a hammer


People don't go walking around looking for receptacles to stick things in but we now have a requirement for TR receps in the NEC.


My isssue is that stuff happens. Landscapers trimming bushes, kids being kids etc. 

If you saw someone run an extension cord from a pole transformer down the side of a house you would take a picture of it and think it was the worst violation ever. The SE is a legal extension cord and a poor excuse for a safe installation.

And, just to be clear, I am not saying you are wrong for doing it, I'm saying the NEC is wrong for allowing it. Also, obviously, this is my opinion so I can't be wrong!!:thumbup:.


PS. Someone should tell Slick what the smiley/laughy emotes mean.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Hell hath frozen over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously, :sleep1:

I'm going to use the same logic you use over and over for running all the cables through one bushing. There are millions of SE cable installations doing just fine without any trouble. I don't understand how you can't apply the same logic you use for your services to ours. It makes no sense to me at all.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

gold said:


> No. There isn't I'm referring to how we break down what is and isn't considered exposed to physical damage here. A few examples would be driveway, sidewalk and anywhere that can be reached from an open window. Those areas requiring protection from physical damage (schd 40) I had an issue with it once exactly the same situation and the AHJ was able to produce a reference with a definition. I will see if I can find it.
> 
> I think its a stretch as well but there it is.


There is nothing in the NEC that tells us when something is exposed to damage, that is the inspectors call.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> The wording "physical damage" has been mentioned a few times in this thread..
> 
> People really don't go walking around looking for exposed gray cable on the side of a house and attack it with a hammer..
> 
> Everything we install in a house is exposed to physical damage if some nut case is on a search and destroy mission..





Peter D said:


> Something we agree on.  I thought you said we would never agree?


Hell, I agree too ..... the end of the world is soon.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I wish they would nail down an exact time when they would be there.


And the inspector wished you would finish the job before you call it in. :thumbsup:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

BBQ said:


> that is the inspectors call.


Bob I'm agreeing with you. But this has been the way here ever since I can remember.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

gold said:


> Bob I'm agreeing with you. But this has been the way here ever since I can remember.


It is just a local (and common) interpretation to say that all SE is subject to damage. That is not the interpretation here in this area.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> And the inspector wished you would finish the job before you call it in. :thumbsup:


True. But it's pretty frustrating to only have a window of time when they say they are going to be there.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It is just a local (and common) interpretation to say that all SE is subject to damage. That is not the interpretation here in this area.


You have to admit, we have it pretty good here. SE cable, exposed romex, using loads of MC cable when the rest of the country uses pipe, and amazingly enough our buildings aren't burning down at a higher rate. :laughing:


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


Island Electric said:



Was it for the point of attachment being the weather head?:jester::

Click to expand...

*

*


Peter D said:



:blink::blink:

Click to expand...

*Ahhhhhhh! I meant to say was it for the point of Attachment being *above* the weather head.

Yup nobody's perfect but most will never admit to mistakes and laugh at it. 
Thanks for not calling me a troll and letting me play the game.:thumbsup: Have a good one.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Island Electric said:


> Ahhhhhhh! I meant to say was it for the point of Attachment being *above* the weather head.


Yes, good catch. That was definitely a mistake. The inspector mentioned it too. :whistling2: Not that an additional 6" higher would have made the slightest bit of difference, but still technically a violation. Sometimes you miss the forest for the trees. :blink:


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Yes, good catch. That was definitely a mistake. The inspector mentioned it too. :whistling2: Not that an additional 6" higher would have made the slightest bit of difference, but still technically a violation. Sometimes you miss the forest for the trees. :blink:


I just did a service where the hook was above the service head. I had a 'whoops' moment. The EI didn't catch it at inspection either. :whistling2:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Island Electric said:


> Was it for the point of attachment being the weather head?:jester:
> 
> Was it for splicing in the panel?:jester:
> 
> ...


What's wrong with #6 to ground rod? Have you heard of the NEC?

What's wrong with splicing in the panel? Have you heard of the NEC?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

steelersman said:


> What's wrong with #6 to ground rod? Have you heard of the NEC?
> 
> What's wrong with splicing in the panel? Have you heard of the NEC?


I think he was trolling. It seemed like the thing to do.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> *I'm going to use the same logic you use over and over for running all the cables through one bushing.* .


You are comparing apples to oranges.

No one has been able to cite a single realistic possible reason of how the cables entering the panel together without connectors can do any harm.

I can cite many realistic possible reasons where SE service conductors would be subject to damage.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> No one has been able to cite a single realistic possible reason of how the cables entering the panel together without connectors can do any harm.
> 
> I can cite many realistic possible reasons where SE service conductors would be subject to damage.


I agree with Peter on this. You are being silly about the SE cable. And you are violating the NEC with your service changes.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I can cite many realistic possible reasons where SE service conductors would be subject to damage.


Sure, and they are based on fear and paranoia. Your rants against SE cable are boring and tedious. Accept that it is used commonly in the northeastern part of the country, and move on already. I'm certainly not going to stop using it, and in fact, I prefer to use it because it's quick and easy.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

220/221 said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> No one has been able to cite a single realistic possible reason of how the cables entering the panel together without connectors *can do any harm*.


Now you are asking for the impossible.. common sense does not come with a article number next to it..

Lets the chit hit the fan now.. :laughing:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Personally I think if you somehow get a weed wacker way up in the air and wack the SE i think you deserve a little light show to learn ya on what not to do with your weed wacker. :yes:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Sure, and they are based on fear and paranoia. Your rants against SE cable are boring and tedious. Accept that it is used commonly in the northeastern part of the country, and move on already. I'm certainly not going to stop using it, and in fact, I prefer to use it because it's quick and easy.


It's used in more places than the northeast. :thumbsup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Sure, and they are based on fear and paranoia. Your rants against SE cable are boring and tedious. Accept that it is used commonly in the northeastern part of the country, and move on already. I'm certainly not going to stop using it, and in fact, I prefer to use it because it's quick and easy.


SEU cable was the norm here on Long Island until PVC pipe became king..

There are many thousands of houses here with it still being used today..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

steelersman said:


> It's used in more places than the northeast. :thumbsup:


Good point. I often think of it as limited to my area from many of the comments on the forum of places that don't allow it, but I see that's not the case.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> There are many thousands of houses here with it still being used today..


And they haven't exploded? :laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> And they haven't exploded? :laughing:


Only when the gas connection went bad..


----------



## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


steelersman said:



What's wrong with #6 to ground rod? Have you heard of the NEC?

What's wrong with splicing in the panel? Have you heard of the NEC?

Click to expand...

*Nothing is wrong with #6 to the ground rod. I think you missed what I said. 

I had no idea splicing in the panel was allowed. 

Anyway I like this forum you guys are funny. In a good way:thumbup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Island Electric said:


> I had no idea splicing in the panel was allowed.


Yeah, it's totally allowed. I ended up with quite a few splices when all was said and done, as a 40 circuit panel is considerably larger than an old 100 amp one.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Sure, and they are based on fear and paranoia. Your rants against SE cable are boring and tedious. Accept that it is used commonly in the northeastern part of the country, and move on already. I'm certainly not going to stop using it, and in fact, I prefer to use it because it's quick and easy.


 
1. My views are based on common sense.

2. Don't read my "rants"

3. Where have I not accepted it? I have been very clear on this issue.

4. I never said you should stop doing it. Knock yourself out. You can tell me it's compliant but don't try to tell me it's safe. 

No fuses + no physical protection (unless you count .005" of plastic sheath) + wooden structure = :jester:




> I agree with Peter on this. You are being silly about the SE cable. And you are violating the NEC with your service changes.


I'll try this *one more time.*

*The NEC isn't necessarily the AHJ. *

Do you understand this? Local AHJ's base their rules on the NEC. If you have paid any attention at all on the forums, you should know this. I didn't know this until the internets. I assumed code was code. If you are just learning this, at least something good came from this rubbish.

If my AHJ was based 100% on the NEC, we'd probably stiill be wiring houses like 3rd world countries too.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> 1. My views are based on common sense.
> 
> 2. Don't read my "rants"
> 
> ...


So millions of trouble free installations count for nothing? That's common sense in my book that you choose to ignore. Show me some statistic or evidence (not just your wild speculations and scenarios) that would convince a code making panel that SEU is dangerous and should be taken out of the NEC, and I'll take you seriously. Until then, this is all you get: :yawn:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> So millions of trouble free installations count for nothing? That's common sense in my book that you choose to ignore. Show me some statistic or evidence (not just your wild speculations and scenarios) that would convince a code making panel that SEU is dangerous and should be taken out of the NEC, and I'll take you seriously. Until then, this is all you get: :yawn:


 
There are multi millions of installations in India and Mexico that people here throw fits over but...they work. We don't have stats that show how many people are killed or injured in third world sub standard electrical installations but if you saw a photo of an extension cord running down from a power pole, into a house in Kabul, you'd say *WTF*? Even though it may work without incident for decades, You would KNOW it's unsafe by looking at the damn thing.

This probably didn't address your issue to your satisfaction, but I did address it.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> This probably didn't address your issue to your satisfaction, but I did address it.


No, because you're using an apples to oranges comparison. Comparing 3rd world methods to a safe, proven method in the U.S. is ridiculous. Bottom line, we will never agree, and it doesn't matter anyway because you don't use SEU.


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

SE cable is used for services all over PA and NJ in the areas I've been in. I've been all over the eastern side of PA and all of NJ and i see 90% SE cable services.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> SE cable is used for services all over PA and NJ in the areas I've been in. I've been all over the eastern side of PA and all of NJ and i see 90% SE cable services.


Oh no!


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


Peter D said:



So millions of trouble free installations count for nothing?

Click to expand...

*My 2 cents. I have done atleast 50 SEU services when I lived on Long Island. I never knew any other way for a residential service other than a mast or underground. We atleast sleeved the SEU back then. 

Now fast forward... I move here and my whole way of doing things is dismissed as a hack job. I had to basically relearn installs and wiring methods. 

Now you take someone from around here and show them SEU and they will say WTF is that! They know no other way. No matter what you tell them they will say :no::no::no:. thats garbage.

I just about forgot what SEU, bare #4,#6, Romex, SCR, MC Cable was till I joined the site Last week. I have found myself saying :no: looking and reading. I have not seen a single gang plastic nail-on in 14 years. You guys have it made that you are able to run romex and do services in SEU. What do you guys charge for an average 200 amp service. I bet the prices are not too far apart either.

I remember my first service change here when I called the boss and he told me to pipe the primary ground from the panel all the way to the water main with no "J" boxes. I was like WTF! No bare copper with staples. Moving here made me a better electrician. 

This no slam on you or your work just sayin you will never talk sense into these guys because they think your Local NEC is hack work. Now that I know what I know I think the same way but also remember those 50 services and 100's of homes including mansions in the Hamptons that we did in Romex not to mention the retail stores with steel stud walls that were roughed in romex. Oh but we had the yellow plastic gromets.:blink: 

When I moved here all I kept thinking for the first 2 years was these people are crazy they pipe houses WTF is wrong with these people. Then I had to add a circuit on the 2nd floor in a 30 year old house and thought to myself this is so nice.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

220/221 said:


> 1. My views are based on common sense.
> 
> FALSE, proven by history
> 
> ...


....................


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Its official......AAlllll you guys are nuts.....I cant believe this is still going on.....LOL get a life guys.....his service is fine....LOL :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

captkirk said:


> Its official......AAlllll you guys are nuts.....I cant believe this is still going on.....LOL get a life guys.....his service is fine....LOL :laughing::laughing::laughing:


But you're still here too.... :thumbup: :laughing:


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


captkirk said:



Its official......AAlllll you guys are nuts.....I cant believe this is still going on.....LOL get a life guys.....his service is fine....LOL :laughing::laughing::laughing:[/QU

Click to expand...

*


captkirk said:


> OTE]
> 
> Were just talking. Never said his service was bad. Just saying what is norm for some would never fly for others. It was a real eye opener for me.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I run Al SEU for those who want the discount price, nothing wrong with that, They want a Toyota, I'll sell them that. They want a Cadillac, i can sell that also.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I run Al SEU for those who want the discount price, nothing wrong with that, They want a Toyota, I'll sell them that. They want a Cadillac, i can sell that also.


Plumbing hack, electrical hack, car sales hack. :laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Plumbing hack, electrical hack, car sales hack. :laughing:


Deflate yourself. While youre wasting you gas giving a top end price to a penny pincher in need of a service, someone like me is getting that job making the money.:laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Deflate yourself. While youre wasting you gas giving a top end price to a penny pincher in need of a service, someone like me is getting that job making the money.:laughing:


I was busting your balls. I'll use se cable in a heartbeat. I'm not scared. :laughing:

I prefer pipe, pvc, only because I can do it faster and I don't see how it is much cheaper to use cable.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

mxslick said:


> He (220/221) is on my ignore list.....(insert emoticon here, damn the 8 item limit) ....unfortunately his pearls of wisdom show up when he is quoted by others.





Jlarson said:


> Why, cause he doens't replace still usable equipment and clutter up landfills with more electrical crap?


No, and here's the evidence, it was worth it to take him off the list temporarily just for this post!!



220/221 said:


> Hell hath frozen over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


P.S. Have you figured out what my signature means yet?



Peter D said:


> Seriously, :sleep1:
> 
> I'm going to use the same logic you use over and over for running all the cables through one bushing. There are millions of SE cable installations doing just fine without any trouble. I don't understand how you can't apply the same logic you use for your services to ours. It makes no sense to me at all.


Thank you. Glad to see common sense here..now on with the show!:



220/221 said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> No one has been able to cite a single realistic possible reason of how the cables entering the panel together without connectors can do any harm.
> 
> I can cite many realistic possible reasons where SE service conductors would be subject to damage.





Peter D said:


> Sure, and they are based on fear and paranoia. Your rants against SE cable are boring and tedious. Accept that it is used commonly in the northeastern part of the country, and move on already. I'm certainly not going to stop using it, and in fact, I prefer to use it because it's quick and easy.





220/221 said:


> 1. My views are based on common sense.
> 
> 2. Don't read my "rants"
> 
> ...





Peter D said:


> So millions of trouble free installations count for nothing? That's common sense in my book that you choose to ignore. Show me some statistic or evidence (not just your wild speculations and scenarios) that would convince a code making panel that SEU is dangerous and should be taken out of the NEC, and I'll take you seriously. Until then, this is all you get: :yawn:





220/221 said:


> There are multi millions of installations in India and Mexico that people here throw fits over but...they work. We don't have stats that show how many people are killed or injured in third world sub standard electrical installations but if you saw a photo of an extension cord running down from a power pole, into a house in Kabul, you'd say *WTF*? Even though it may work without incident for decades, You would KNOW it's unsafe by looking at the damn thing.
> 
> This probably didn't address your issue to your satisfaction, but I did address it.


I'm not gonna say what I really want to say here. 




electricmanscott said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *220/221*
> _1. My views are based on common sense.
> 
> ...


Another great post, thank you sir!!



Jlarson said:


> Personally I think if you somehow get a weed wacker way up in the air and wack the SE i think you deserve a little light show to learn ya on what not to do with your weed wacker. :yes:


Agreed. Now do you understand why I have him on my list?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

This thread is now them


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

gold said:


> This thread is now them


No way am I clicking on that!!!!! :laughing: :no:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> No way am I clicking on that!!!!! :laughing: :no:


Good call if you're on a work computer. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> No way am I clicking on that!!!!! :laughing: :no:





Jlarson said:


> Good call if you're on a work computer. :laughing:


It is just a bunch of lady parts, shafts and butt holes.:laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> It is just a bunch of lady parts, shafts and butt holes.:laughing:





Jlarson said:


> Good call if you're on a work computer. :laughing:



Yeehaa! Can't wait to get home now. :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

gold said:


> This thread is now them


That dog in that one picture must be miller's :laughing:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> That dog in that one picture must be miller's :laughing:


HAHA I didn't even notice the dog!!! How appropriate. Some dogs bring slippers ...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

gold said:


> Some dogs bring slippers ...


That must make for some interesting conversation when friends and neighbors stop by to say hello.. :laughing:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

15 pages about peters service upgrade..... Thats really neat-o.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> 15 pages about peters service upgrade..... Thats really neat-o.


Hard to believe. :blink: 50% of it was B4T's nonsense remarks and me refuting them. :laughing: The other 50% was the usual debate about SE cable.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Hard to believe. :blink: 50% of it was B4T's nonsense remarks and me refuting them. :laughing: The other 50% was the usual debate about SE cable.


The good thing is you learned how to do it right next time.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> The good thing is you learned how to do it right next time.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


On the next one, the clips will be in the exact same place. :thumbsup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Hard to believe. :blink: 50% of it was B4T's nonsense remarks and me refuting them. :laughing: The other 50% was the usual debate about SE cable.


Not surprising :laughing:

I saw that coming when i saw the first pic...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> On the next one, the clips will be in the exact same place. :thumbsup:


Secretaries use clips to keep pieces of paper together.. electricians use straps to hold things in place.. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Secretaries use clips to keep pieces of paper together.. electricians use straps to hold things in place.. :laughing:



Ok, you got me. Straps. Happy now?


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> Secretaries use clips to keep pieces of paper together.. electricians use straps to hold things in place.. :laughing:





Peter D said:


> Ok, you got me. Straps. Happy now?



I found a perfect t-shirt to respond to this but WARNING: The link contains R-Rated language!! (But no nudity):laughing:

http://www.zazzle.com/you_say_tomato_i_say_****_off_tshirt-235692786668312057


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> 15 pages about peters service upgrade..... Thats really neat-o.


At least Peter and B4T are back together again.



> Comparing 3rd world methods to a safe, proven method in the U.S. is ridiculous.


Peter would say "show me the stats" on 3rd world electrical installations. I can't and you can't.



> Originally Posted by *electricmanscott*
> _Quote:
> Originally Posted by *220/221*
> 1. My views are based on common sense.
> ...


LMAO. Substantiate your claims with a quote maybe?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> At least Peter and B4T are back together again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:sleep1:


----------



## moons657 (May 10, 2011)

Can someone explain exactly what se cable is?? Romex?? Different brands or what??

from Keith in Ireland


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

moons657 said:


> Can someone explain exactly what se cable is?? Romex?? Different brands or what??
> 
> from Keith in Ireland


SE cable stands for Service Entrance cable. It's commonly (and legally) (and successfully) used in the United States. It's the cable in Peter's pics that comes into the meter and leaves the meter to go into the panel inside the house.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

That service looks like a butthole.
:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> That service looks like a butthole.
> :thumbsup:


Thanks! I gave it my best effort, but a rookie like me can't expect to do much better. :no:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> LMAO. Substantiate your claims with a quote maybe?


How about this: New England (CT, MA, RI, ME, VT, NH), NY, PA, OH, MD, NJ, DE, VA and every other state where it's commonly used as substantiation. So a portion of the country that has just about 1/3 of the population of the nation with millions of dwelling units isn't good enough evidence for you, right?


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Thanks! I gave it my best effort, but a rookie like me can't expect to do much better. :no:


Dude, i was joking.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Dude, i was joking.


So was I. :thumbsup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Dude, i was joking.


He has been very sensitive since I told him he made rookie mistakes .. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> He has been very sensitive since I told him he made rookie mistakes .. :laughing:


If you say so. :laughing: You're still a low grade DIY hack in my book. :thumbsup:


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I will never see how one wiring method is safer than another for services. what I have seen after storms have riped down services, looked like the forth of july, when done in metalic conduit. I have seen them shooting balls of fire like roman candles, I have seen the gec get so hot it left char marks on all the holes it ran through. I have never seen that with SE. I don't know why you would not want to use it in florida. Here comes a storm. Time to run to the food store, board up the windows and roll up the service.:laughing:


----------



## moons657 (May 10, 2011)

steelersman said:


> SE cable stands for Service Entrance cable. It's commonly (and legally) (and successfully) used in the United States. It's the cable in Peter's pics that comes into the meter and leaves the meter to go into the panel inside the house.


Thanks for explaining man

from Keith in Ireland


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Hey you guys living along the Mississippi may want to look into doing your services in g cable. It is mining cable and we use it here in the chase way in floating docks. You guy on the west coast that are going to slide into the pacific may want to use extra expansion fittings. I also have been hearing that the end of the world is coming may 21, so guys with se cable may want to roll up your services on the 20th. All the rest of you get ready for the fireworks.
Sorry if I offended anybody getting flooded but I just got home and had a cold one while watching the evening news and started thinking of the safest way of doing a service.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

moons657 said:


> Can someone explain exactly what se cable is?? Romex?? Different brands or what??
> 
> from Keith in Ireland


 
It's a big extension cord that hillbillies use to get power from the pole to their houses. :laughing:




> How about this: New England (CT, MA, RI, ME, VT, NH), NY, PA, OH, MD, NJ, DE, VA and every other state where it's commonly used as substantiation. So a portion of the country that has just about 1/3 of the population of the nation with millions of dwelling units isn't good enough evidence for you, right?


 
The *substantiate your claims* was written after EMS's quote. It seemed clear to me but....??

I'll take a good guess that more than 1/3 of the worlds population uses substandard electrical systems. Does that make ir right? Never mind. I already asked that and all it did was get me booted from Bob's xmas list.:laughing:



You do it in your areas. That's fine. Go forth and prosper. It's has no impact on me at all. However, my acceptance of the method doesn't change my opinion. Some of you clowns take this so personally. You didn't invent the method. I'm not blaming you. You are just doing what you've been taught and what's always been done.

If you want to debate the issue without being dooshbags, I'm always up for it. If you want to be dooshbags about it, I'm also in.:thumbup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> You do it in your areas. That's fine. Go forth and prosper. It's has no impact on me at all. However, my acceptance of the method doesn't change my opinion. Some of you clowns take this so personally. You didn't invent the method. I'm not blaming you. You are just doing what you've been taught and what's always been done.


Normally I respect your opinions and listen to what you have to say, but on this issue you are way off base. You don't come right out and say it, but when you make snide remarks like "Running 200 amp extension cord on the side of a building" you are taking cheap shots at those of us who use this wiring method.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Normally I respect your opinions and listen to what you have to say, but on this issue you are way off base. You don't come right out and say it, but when you make snide remarks like "Running 200 amp extension cord on the side of a building" you are taking *cheap shots* at those of us who use this wiring method.


Since when did cheap shots ever bother you.. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Since when did cheap shots ever bother you.. :laughing:



If I'm going to criticize someone's work, I at least try to have a valid reason, code wise, to do so. Your work, at least the stuff you've talked about, is hack. :thumbsup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Since when did cheap shots ever bother you.. :laughing:


Weren't you the guy that said he would no longer respond to Peter. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Weren't you the guy that said he would no longer respond to Peter. :laughing:


That didn't last. :no:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> If I'm going to criticize someone's work, I at least try to have a valid reason, code wise, to do so. Your work, at least the stuff you've talked about, is hack. :thumbsup:


See.. the problem is I have to care what you think.. I really don't.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> See.. the problem is I have to care what you think.. I really don't.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


Then why do you keep responding? :blink:

Answer: you like to be a troll.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> That didn't last. :no:


He has no self control. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> He has no self control. :laughing:


He claims he doesn't care, yet he's right there with a response. Makes sense, right? :wacko:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Weren't you the guy that said he would no longer respond to Peter. :laughing:


I tried that.. the problem was he caught me when I was arguing all day and came here for some relaxation..

The next day I was back to normal and decided to pick up where I left off..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> The next day I was back to *normal*....


Yeah right. :laughing::laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Success is when you can rattle someone over the Internet and victory is when they make you part of their signature.. just ask Scott


Two things to say here.

1) If you think you have bothered Scott you are nuts, I have met Scott he is not bothered by the small stuff. 

2) That signature proves you are here to troll. :yes: 

You are saying that your objective is to piss people off.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok, time to pick on the guys from Chicago who run all emt.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Ok, time to pick on the guys from Chicago who run all emt.


Even their inflatable rat is supplied with conduit.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Two things to say here.
> 
> 1) If you think you have bothered Scott you are nuts, I have met Scott he is not bothered by the small stuff.
> 
> ...


Just what exactly are you.. I will let the others fill in the blanks.. :thumbsup:

I don't care who I piss off since I am here to have fun and I can't help it if I hurt your feelings along the way..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> Ok, time to pick on the guys from Chicago who run all emt.


:thumbup:

Talk about extreme paranoia. They would have a heart attack if they came to New England and saw all our commercial building wired with romex. :laughing:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> It's a big extension cord that hillbillies use to get power from the pole to their houses.


:lol: :lol:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Just what exactly are you.. I will let the others fill in the blanks.. :thumbsup:


Bob's actually a pretty superb electrician. :thumbsup:

(Please Bob, don't let this go to your head  )



> I don't care who I piss off since I am here to have fun and I can't help it if I hurt your feelings along the way..



Which only proves once again that you are a troll.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have to admit that was pretty amusing.

_It's a big extension cord that hillbillies use to get power from the pole to their houses._


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Which only proves once again that you are a troll.


What do you call someone who gets banned from an Internet forum and keeps coming back under multiple names to cause trouble..

YOU are the last guy who should be pointing fingers at anyone.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> What do you call someone who gets banned from an Internet forum and keeps coming back under multiple names to cause trouble..
> 
> YOU are the last guy who should be pointing fingers at anyone.. :no:


Ok mom. :laughing: Ouch, you got me. I think it's well established I did that. But it deflects from the real issue. You are a troll, right here, right now. 

What do you call someone who gets banned from an internet forum because they have an obsession with Fox News?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> What do you call someone who gets banned from an internet forum because they have an obsession with Fox News?


Nothing wrong with Fox News.. better take a closer look at Marc's mood swings.. :thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Peter D said:


> What do you call someone who gets banned from an internet forum because they have an obsession with Fox News?


Oh, oh I know that one; B4T. :yes: :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Oh, oh I know that one; B4T. :yes: :laughing:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Nothing wrong with Fox News.. better take a closer look at Marc's mood swings.. :thumbsup:


Yeah, that must have been the issue. :laughing: It had nothing to do with starting political threads every other day. :no:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Just what exactly are you.. I will let the others fill in the blanks.. :thumbsup:


You are getting as unresponsive as Noah. :laughing:

This ain't about me, it is about your signature ......... you did create your signature to be read didn't you? 



> I don't care who I piss off since I am here to have fun


Exactly, and that is what makes you a troll. :thumbsup:




> and I can't help it if I hurt your feelings along the way..


Why the heck would my feeling be hurt? :blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ.. is it safe to say you are a troll also??


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> BBQ.. is it safe to say you are a troll also??


I am a Badger.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I am a Badger.


_You are getting as unresponsive as Noah.. :laughing: _


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> BBQ.. is it safe to say you are a troll also??


Two words: "bug nuts"


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I am a Badger.



:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbup:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

That was random. Magic mushrooms?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

My thread:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> My thread:


Yeah .......... WTF did you expect? 



You had the balls to post a picture service entrance cable being used for a service entrance. It is just too much for some folks. :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> You don't come right out and say it, but when you make snide remarks like "Running 200 amp extension cord on the side of a building" you are taking cheap shots at those of us who use this wiring method


Well, *at this point*, **** yeah. I started with "nice job" or something. When you start giving me **** and it will come right back at you.


And....I'm sorry to see that B4T and Peter have broken up again.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Well, *at this point*, **** yeah. I started with "nice job" or something. When you start giving me **** and it will come right back at you.


Huh? I must be missing something. Where in this whole thread did you say I did a nice job? I just searched and can't find anything. Plenty of remarks about hillbilly wiring methods and extension cord, but no "nice job." 



> And....I'm sorry to see that B4T and Peter have broken up again.


It's a crying shame. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> You had the balls to post a picture service entrance cable being used for a service entrance. It is just too much for some folks. :laughing:


17 pages and 5000+ views later, I'm still in disbelief. :blink:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> 17 pages and 5000+ views later, I'm still in disbelief. :blink:


 Yeah, I would not be at all sorry to see this SE/conduit nonsense get put on the same "verboten" list as ground up/ground down.

At this rate there won't be anything we_ can _discuss. 

-John


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

OK...I went back to see where it went South. 

The times I commented on the hillbily SE, I always put the laughy face after it. 

That means, it's.a.joke. 

When someone like JohnR says "Dude, you are a hack", you know they are serious. All the hillbily coments were jokes as well as the "failed inspection" one (which also had a laughy face)

When someone says "Hillbilly Electric :laughing:" you know it is light hearted.....right? 

I didn't say "good job" but the conversation seemed normal. Any time you upgrade an electrical system and make it smarter and more safe, it's a good job so, good job! :thumbsup:

Congratulations on 17 or so pages too.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Big John said:


> Yeah, I would not be at all sorry to see this SE/conduit nonsense get put on the same "verboten" list as ground up/ground down.
> 
> At this rate there won't be anything we_ can _discuss.
> 
> -John


Not true.. I have a few topics that I can pull out of a hat to get the debate going.. :whistling2::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> OK...I went back to see where it went South.
> 
> The times I commented on the hillbily SE, I always put the laughy face after it.
> 
> ...


Ok, glad we got that cleared up. :thumbsup: I improved the electrical system by securing some 200 amp extension cord to the side of the house. ( Joking --------> :laughing: )


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Not true.. I have a few topics that I can pull out of a hat to get the debate going.. :whistling2::laughing:


It won't be a debate. You'll have a bunch of people telling you that your methods are hack, and you trying to tell us they are not.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It won't be a debate. You'll have a bunch of people telling you that your methods are hack, and you trying to tell us they are not.


So what is the problem..:blink:

You guys are Boy Scouts who never break code.. COUGH COUGH COUGH


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Why didnt you just do it like that the 1st time..:thumbsup::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> 17 pages and 5000+ views later, I'm still in disbelief. :blink:


This is only page 7

All you have to do is set your user control panel to 50 posts per page for major league threads...:thumbup::thumbup::laughing::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> So what is the problem..:blink:
> 
> You guys are Boy Scouts who never break code.. COUGH COUGH COUGH


 :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Huh? I must be missing something. Where in this whole thread did you say I did a nice job? I just searched and can't find anything. Plenty of remarks about hillbilly wiring methods and extension cord, but no "nice job."
> 
> 
> 
> It's a crying shame. :laughing:


Now do you see why he's on my ignore list....:whistling2:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Huh? I must be missing something. Where in this whole thread did you say I did a nice job? I just searched and can't find anything. Plenty of remarks about hillbilly wiring methods and extension cord, but no "nice job."


Just in case I forgot, nice job :thumbsup: Even if all you did was run an extension cord :jester:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> So what is the problem..:blink:


What's the problem? :laughing:

*quadruple faceplam*



B4T said:


> You guys are Boy Scouts who never break code.. COUGH COUGH COUGH


Who ever said that?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Just in case I forgot, nice job :thumbsup: Even if all you did was run an extension cord :jester:


Thanks! I'm just waiting for the guy with the chainsaw to go cut it all up.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Thanks! I'm just waiting for the guy with the chainsaw to go cut it all up.


Now that would be just crazy! It's the weedwackers that you have to watch out for apparently. :laughing:


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