# I'm baffled by this service call.



## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

I had a breaker tripping. Opened everything on that circuit, and everything looked and tested good. Disconnected neutral and the breaker held. Touched it to neutral bar and it still held. Reconnected the neutral all was fine. Turned everything on and took an amp reading. That too was good. Assumed the breaker had crapped out, and replaced it. Just got called back to the house, same circuit. Tripped and wouldn't reset until I disconnected and reconnected the neutral. 
I had asked the home owner what they were doing when the circuit tripped. Both times they said just watching tv. I cannot figure out or understand the cause/solution to this. Any ideas or input would be greatly appreciated.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

priorityelectric said:


> I had a breaker tripping. Opened everything on that circuit, and everything looked and tested good. Disconnected neutral and the breaker held. Touched it to neutral bar and it still held. Reconnected the neutral all was fine. Turned everything on and took an amp reading. That too was good. Assumed the breaker had crapped out, and replaced it. Just got called back to the house, same circuit. Tripped and wouldn't reset until I disconnected and reconnected the neutral.
> I had asked the home owner what they were doing when the circuit tripped. Both times they said just watching tv. I cannot figure out or understand the cause/solution to this. Any ideas or input would be greatly appreciated.


Plug tv into another circuit. See what circuit trips.


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

I thought about that but what would cause it to sporadically trip? If there was an issue with the tv wouldn't it happen everytime. And i havevseen the tv on b and no tripping issue.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Is this a standard breaker or an afci? Not sure it matters but...have to know all info.

Other than the TV what electronics are on the circuit?


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

Standard breaker. The circuit is living room outlets and lights, kitchen light, and hall light. Tv, lamps, and child phones are what's plugged into the circuit. I have had them all on and even called my cell from both phones plugged in. Maybe 7 outlets on circuit, 3 are unused.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Maybe there's a load on it you're not aware of.

Things like an old refrigerator can cause this. The defrost elements short out, and every 24 hours when the fridge goes into defrost mode, the breaker trips.

Could be an attic fan motor that's crapped out. Attic heats up, stat turns on fan, breaker trips.

Abandoned feed buried in the yard that used to go to a pole light. Enough corrosion to overload the circuit when moisture conditions are right.



A million things could be listed.


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

I'll look into that possibility thank you. And because i didn't state it, the was roughly a month between the 2 service calls.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

You didn't meg the circuit, right.

A double doughnut amp tester would also be a nice test on the line.

You plug it in series to the power and have two places to take a amp reading,
IE hot and neutral.

Sorry, looked for a picture to no avail...


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

No I do not have a meg, or double donut tester. I'm probably missing something stupid easy to solve this issue. I am just fixated on why the breaker continues to trip until I disconnect reconnect the neutral wire.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Room Rental tenant , or kid has his grow lights tapped on it , on a timer .









Pete


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

None of the statements explain why removing the neutral seems to reset the circuit. It makes absolutely no sense to me


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## Expediter (Mar 12, 2014)

A staple through the wire, pinching or possibly a mouse chewing on the insulation.


Is it a GFCI breaker?


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## Swordsman (Jun 14, 2014)

Just a suggestion here. As a practice on service calls that seem mysterious I always tighten every wire connection I can find. *All* the terminals. You'd be surprised what just tightening everything can do.


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

Pete it is a single family home elderly couple. 

Dennis, I've asked many people nobody has a clue. 

Swordsman, one of the first things i do when i open a panel on a service call.



Expediter, possibly a staple, no signs of rodents in house.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

At this point, I'd be hooking up some recording equipment to find out if it's a short or an overload, and precisely what date & time it occurs.

Armed with the results, that would narrow down the search.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

480sparky said:


> Maybe there's a load on it you're not aware of.
> 
> Things like an old refrigerator can cause this. The defrost elements short out, and every 24 hours when the fridge goes into defrost mode, the breaker trips.
> 
> ...


These are really good examples. I'd love to see people list similar examples they have actually encountered.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Yes a million things can be listed but none explain why the neutral must be taken off to reset the breaker. I somehow think this is not really the case but IDK.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

None of us have Xray eyes, so maybe isolating the circuit and opening every outlet will reveal whatever intermittent problem is occurring.

~CS~


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

I have isolated the circuit, did continuity tests, voltage tests, made sure everything was tight. I'm running the this evening, I will update what i find.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

What if that neutral is being shared with another circut . If the breaker isnt tripping from a short then naybe its getting hot

learning to learn


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

If its sharing a neutral then I should be able to do continuity right at the panel. Thank you Zen, that's the most plausible idea so far.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I would never of thought to disconnect the neutral of a tripping circuit.Was that the day I missed class?


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

I was trying to determine if it was a short to ground it neutral. Still haven't found the cause, but it hasn't tripped in a week.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Weather conditions during the event(s)....480 hit on some good leads...sump pump??


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

480sparky said:


> At this point, I'd be hooking up some recording equipment to find out if it's a short or an overload, and precisely what date & time it occurs.
> 
> Armed with the results, that would narrow down the search.


460, What recording meters do you use for this? I would not be against owning this equip.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> 460, What recording meters do you use for this? I would not be against owning this equip.


I use a Fluke 289 with an external amp clamp.

Once the breaker trips, I'd check the log and see if it was a short circuit (exceeding the ability of the meter to record the level), or an overload (say, 60 or 100 amps), as well as the time of day.


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## MikesElec (Mar 24, 2011)

I think it is just coincidence that the neutral must be taken off the breaker, unless their is potential difference between the ground and the neutral. I would make sure the neutral bar is good and properly bonded to the service neutral.

My guess is that their is a flood light that is motion controlled or photocelled up, and the socket for the bulb is messed up.


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## chen24 (Oct 29, 2013)

:nerd: Is it underground or overhead service? I would verify that there is no open neutral on poco side as vault connections go bad. Check vol-
tage to neutral on line side of main breaker even better line side of meter if possible


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## arthur (Feb 7, 2012)

Do you mean that when you go there, the circuit CONTINUES to trip until you reconnect the neutral?


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## priorityelectric (Jun 22, 2014)

Yes though it hasn't tripped now in several weeks. I just need to know what was causing it, and u haven't been able to figure it out?


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## sparkyjw (Oct 7, 2011)

From the OPs explanation, the neutral playing a part in this scenario seems random, and IMO might not have any bearing on the big picture. My favorite answer was Expediter's. I've had a similar issue in my own condo, where a drywall screw pierced Romex, and the issue didn't manifest itself until almost 9 months down the road, when moisture caused the screw to rust, and the oxidation caused a ground fault. It might be helpful (stupid as it sounds) to (at the panel) remove the circuit's 3 wires, and do continuity checks between hot, ground, and grounded conductor--all while another party raps the heel of their hand on the wall between all term points. This small vibration might cause an otherwise steady OL reading to quickly vacillate to an ohmic reading. 

Flame away.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Look in the drawer of the nightstand next to the bed. Might be a bad appliance is stored in there.....................


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