# 314.23(e)



## Tonyv (Feb 28, 2009)

Can I mount - without support - a 4" sq. combo box (1/2"/3/4" k.o.) that does not support a fixture between rafters so long as it is mounted with 2 emts?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Tonyv said:


> Can I mount - without support - a 4" sq. combo box (1/2"/3/4" k.o.) that does not support a fixture between rafters so long as it is mounted with 2 emts?


Check out 314.23(E). It is clear to me you can do it if you follow below rules.



> (E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices, Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that does not contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3 (100 in.3) in size. I*t shall have threaded entries or have hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 900 mm (3 ft) of the enclosure, or within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure if all conduit entries are on the same side.*
> Exception: Rigid metal, intermediate metal, or rigid nonmetallic conduit or electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted to support a conduit body of any size, including a conduit body constructed with only one conduit entry, provided the trade size of the conduit body is not larger than the largest trade size of the conduit or electrical metallic tubing.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Tonyv said:


> Can I mount - without support - a 4" sq. combo box (1/2"/3/4" k.o.) that does not support a fixture between rafters so long as it is mounted with 2 emts?


Yes..:thumbup:



> *
> (E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices,
> Luminaires, or Lampholders.​*​​​​An enclosure that does not
> contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a
> ...


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## Tonyv (Feb 28, 2009)

Thank you all. I thought so but I didn't think it hurt to ask. ouch, ouch!


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes..:thumbup:




No Harry you can't. Show me th threaded entry on a four square box?

(E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices,
Luminaires, or Lampholders. 
An enclosure that does not
contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a
luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported​

by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm
​​3​ 


(100 in.
​​3) in size. *It shall have threaded entries or have*
*hubs identified for the purpose.* It shall be supported by two
or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or
hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 900 mm (3 ft) of
the enclosure, or within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure if
all conduit entries are on the same side.​



_Exception: __*The following wiring methods shall be permitted*_
_*to support a conduit body of any size, including a conduit*_
_*body constructed with only one conduit entry,* if the_
_trade size of the conduit body is not larger than the largest_
_trade size of the conduit or tubing:_
_(1) Intermediate metal conduit, Type IMC_
_(2) Rigid metal conduit, Type RMC_
_(3) Rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, Type PVC_
_(4) Reinforced thermosetting resin conduit, Type RTRC_​​​
_(5) Electrical metallic tubing, Type EMT_​ 
*A conduit body would be a LB, or stretching would be a small FS or FD box for a receptacle in a yard. This does not apply to four square boxes.* ​​​


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Tony, what do you mean by mounted with 2" emt?? Obviously thw 2" is not entering the box.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Tony, what do you mean by mounted with 2" emt?? Obviously thw 2" is not entering the box.


That's not what he is saying Dennis -

Can I mount - without support - a 4" sq. combo box (1/2"/3/4" k.o.) that does not support a fixture* between rafters so long as it is mounted with 2 emts? *


It sounds like to me, that he wants to "float" a box between rafters. He is trying to justify the action by haviing two small EMT pipes hit the box. The EMT is probably 3/4".

If I was the AHJ, I'd say "Nice try - Fail"

Put the box on a rafter, pipe accordingly, move on.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

So what is the 2" emt doing????


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> So what is the 2" emt doing????


 No 2" EMT...two runs of EMT supporting the box.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> No 2" EMT...two runs of EMT supporting the box.


LOL I must have read that 3 times and saw 2" emt not 2 emt. That is what I thought the op was asking but then I read that incorrectly.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Weld the EMT connector onto the 4" sq, then weld the EMT into the connector, support within 3' or 18" respectively.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Why do you want the box out in space anyway?


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

thegoldenboy said:


> *Weld* the EMT connector onto the 4" sq, then weld the EMT into the connector, support within 3' or 18" respectively.


 
Welding is a violation too

300.18(B) W*elding.*

I don't write the rules, just try to know them!


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Rockyd said:


> Welding is a violation too
> 
> 300.18(B) W*elding.*
> 
> I don't write the rules, just try to know them!


I wasn't being close to serious on that. :laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I say no go on using 2 conduits to mount a 4"sq. The conduits need to be threaded into the box like you would in a bell box.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

thegoldenboy said:


> I wasn't being close to serious on that. :laughing:


Your turn for abuse ....

Go here -

http://users.wolfcrews.com/toys/vikings/

I AM YOUR OVERLORD!

:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Tonyv (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks everyone. I had to locate the boxes between joists. I supported the boxes with scrap wood.


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