# Traveler Colors



## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

When you feed a ceiling fixture hot and then 2 three wire cables for the 3 way switches what colors are used for the travelers between the switches. 
Does the code specify the color. 
I am of the opinion that the travelers should be red and white. That way you could start and finish the circuit with the 2 blacks. 

I am aware that the best way is take a 2 wire to the first 3 way and run a 3 wire between the 2 three ways.

Thanks LC


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

You do know about re-identification of white conductors in a cable used as ungrounded conductors right?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Three ways, if I am doing a dead end style bounce back the red and now blue one that used to be white are travelers. Black is so common....... 

Otherwise if carrying the neutral thru from starting end to the eventual load end , then Black common, red and black in the -3 cable for travelers, and black common on the tail end.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Three ways, if I am doing a dead end style bounce back the red and now blue one that used to be white are travelers. Black is so common.......
> 
> Otherwise if carrying the neutral thru from starting end to the eventual load end , then Black common, red and black in the -3 cable for travelers, and black common on the tail end.


I keep the white for the neutral since there's supposed to be a neutral 
in every switch box now.

Just lose the dead from your techniques and run the neutral from box 
to box...feed at one 3 way and leg at the other ...tie whites (neutrals through at the 4 ways (if there are any).


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

lighterup said:


> I keep the white for the neutral since there's supposed to be a neutral
> in every switch box now.
> 
> Just lose the dead from your techniques and run the neutral from box
> to box...feed at one 3 way and leg at the other ...tie whites (neutrals through at the 4 ways (if there are any).


This is how I do it when we rough in.

Sometimes though on remodels, you just go with the flow.

Texting and Driving


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Yeah, the op stated his feed was in the ceiling and 2 - 3 wire cables down to the switches. Depending on the code cycle this may be a violation. The 2011 Nec required all the switch boxes to have a neutral while the 2014 and 21017 allows you to only have a neutral in one of the 3 ways providing it is visible from inside the room served.

If you are not concerned with a neutral in the switch box then I agree the red and white are travelers. The black is fed on one switch and it is the return on the other.

And as Mac said you need to mark the white conductor with tape


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I was helping a neighbor straighten a mess out. This house was built in 1952/53 . I should have mentioned that. I knew about the neutral but taking 2 cables out of the ceiling box tends to lead to a crowded box that most of the time is not necessary.

LC


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I have always used the white for the hot and switch leg. Blk and red as travelers.
Same thin on single poles. Wht is hot blk is switch leg.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

lighterup said:


> I keep the white for the neutral since there's supposed to be a neutral
> in every switch box now.
> 
> Just lose the dead from your techniques and run the neutral from box
> to box...feed at one 3 way and leg at the other ...tie whites (neutrals through at the 4 ways (if there are any).


Honolulu is still on 2008. No neutral in switch box required.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Honolulu is still on 2008. No neutral in switch box required.



I've never seen that rule enforced around here and we are on the 2014.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MTW said:


> I've never seen that rule enforced around here and we are on the 2014.


Me neither.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Me neither.


Once a code goes into effect , I incorporate it into my
wiring techniques. 

I've cheated here & there and ran a dead end cause
it was more convenient and I've never been red tagged 
for this either.

There are some jurisdictions here that I'm sure would 
look for it though and seize the opportunity to ring
all the alarms ,"stop the job!".. , no-no-no-no:vs_no_no_no:
:no:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We used to see yellow pulled for travelers and an orange pulled for the refrigerator.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MTW said:


> I've never seen that rule enforced around here and we are on the 2014.


I've had inspectors look for it here in Texas.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## tceek (Apr 1, 2014)

article 200.7 C the white wire can be used for switches but should be the supply for the switches.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Depending on the code cycle this may be a violation. The 2011 Nec required all the switch boxes to have a neutral while the 2014 and 21017 allows you to only have a neutral in one of the 3 ways providing it is visible from inside the room served.


It is a new rule coming up for us in our new 2018 CEC. Right now it says “required at all switch locations”. 
I wonder if the CEC will follow the NEC on this? Hope so, I bet it will get annoying when you have 3 ways and 4 ways!


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Not an issue if it’s in a box with a bunch of other switches and there’s already a neutral in that box. Then you can run dead-end 3-ways all day long. 

Or if the box is fed with a raceway or conduit of some sort, enabling the next guy to pull a neutral in if he needs one. 

They put that rule in because folks were installing more and more switch devices that were complicated (like dimmers, motion sense, etc) and/or that needed a neutral, and they were using the ground instead, thus putting current on non-normally-current-carrying conductors (ie ground). Guys were getting belted off the ground wire in houses/offices with a bunch of motion sensors (or dimmers, because many dimmers still put electricity down the neutral even if the slider is all the way “off”) using the ground as a neutral. 

I like kitty cats.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

tjb said:


> Not an issue if it’s in a box with a bunch of other switches and there’s already a neutral in that box. Then you can run dead-end 3-ways all day long.
> 
> Or if the box is fed with a raceway or conduit of some sort, enabling the next guy to pull a neutral in if he needs one.
> 
> ...


Anymore occupancy switches and the like aren't requiring neutrals anyway. None that I've used lately anyhow.

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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

They still make occupancy switches that use the ground for the neutral, but their only for exsisting situations that have no neutral present. 

The code has a limit on how many can be installed that way.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

404.2(C) 
Exception: The connection requirement shall become effective on January 1, 2020. It shall not apply to replacement or retrofit switches installed in locations prior to local adoption of 404.2(C) and where the grounded conductor cannot be extended without removing finish materials. The number of electronic lighting control switches on a branch circuit not exceed five, and the number connected to any feeder on the load side of a system or main bonding jumper shall not exceed 25. For the purpose of this exception, a neutral busbar, in compliance with 200.2(B) and to which a main or system bonding jumper is connected shall not be limited as to the number of electronic lighting control switches connected.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

*


tjb said:



Not an issue if it’s in a box with a bunch of other switches

Click to expand...

*


tjb said:


> and there’s already a neutral in that box. Then you can run dead-end 3-ways all day long.
> 
> Or if the box is fed with a raceway or conduit of some sort, enabling the next guy to pull a neutral in if he needs one.
> 
> ...


As long as the neutral you need for an afci circuit isn't from 
another afci circuit


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

lighterup said:


> *
> 
> As long as the neutral you need for an afci circuit isn't from
> another afci circuit*


*

Exactly, and for areas that don't require afci the neutral still needs to be from th circuit for the corresponding sw. So if there were 3 circuits in the box then you would need 3 neutrals from the 3 different circuits.*


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> We used to see yellow pulled for travelers and an orange pulled for the refrigerator.


I used to work for an commercial/industrial EC (on a 1099)
when he needed more help and I needed more work. They 
used pink for commons


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Exactly, and for areas that don't require afci the neutral still needs to be from th circuit for the corresponding sw. So if there were 3 circuits in the box then you would need 3 neutrals from the 3 different circuits.


I saw you in my quotes and thought..."what I say this time":vs_laugh:


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