# Why not



## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Is it this impossible to make stuff in America? I mean not one shop can make these adapters? Is some part of it illegal to make?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I guess they are afraid of line voltage


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

The short version is it is much cheaper to build in china. The long version involves environmental issues, slave labor and businesses insane short term thinking.

There are just not enough people willing to purchase some American made goods to keep the businesses willing to build here, in business.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

I know...things like this just kill me. Something should be done at a higher level than just us wirenuts! You would think that the NEMA would be all over this!


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

You would think at least one of those union guys could figure out how to turn 120VAC into 12VDC :brows:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> You would think at least one of those union guys could figure out how to turn 120VAC into 12VDC :brows:


They are too busy arranging chairs around the break table and discussing new ways to do less. :whistling2:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BBQ said:


> They are too busy arranging chairs around the break table and discussing new ways to do less. :whistling2:


and get paid more:thumbup:


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Har Har Har


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

icefalkon said:


> Har Har Har


:thumbsup:


Ok, real reason why.


We all shop by price and have no one to blaim but ourselves.

It is not the fault of developing nations that have few rules, it is a direct result of price shopping.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

BBQ said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Ok, real reason why.
> ...



Absolutely correct. We don't manufacture the same thing for the same price or less...so in the short form...That's why it's so difficult to build a job with all American made materials. Just a quick for instance. Here in NYC Local 3 is building a brand new training center from the ground up. It's very different being the "client" in a build out like this. We established "rules" for the GC and all Subs. I had no idea how difficult this would be prior to experiencing it. 

Get this:All materials for this building are to be sourced from:

1. The United States, from Union manufacturers. If not then...
2. MADE here in the United States, if not then...
3. MADE in North America.

OK, this is way harder to do than it sounds...even with that web site...build America or whatever it's called. All in all, we have every single item in this construction coming from either Union shops, or small American mom and pop shops, and at the LEAST...from North America...except...ready for this...

2 LED lamps. They're made in Germany. I still can't see why we didn't just dump them and move on...but...that's above my pay grade. 

This was an undertaking that took over 3yrs to accomplish!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

We have done some jobs with specs that required American made, our purchasers found the absolute hardest parts to get that complied were simple nuts, bolts and washers. Yeah, no one in America seems to make 'hardware grade' hardware. 

They even had trouble with people buying huge lots from overseas and repackaging them into boxes that had 'made in USA' on them.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

I know. You hit that on the head...1/4x20 bolts! WTF? What happened to Pittsburg and all the steel mills? We couldn't find them for the longest time! Made in Mexico..no problem...made here...not a shot! 

To think that we once were the sole manufacturers of televisions...and it went to sh*t after that!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> The short version is it is much cheaper to build in china. The long version involves environmental issues, slave labor and businesses insane short term thinking.
> 
> *There are just not enough people willing to purchase some American made goods *to keep the businesses willing to build here, in business.


 
And the sad fact is SOME American Goods are equal to or surpass the quality of the Chinese "STUFF" and cost around the same price.

Look at Carhart and their competitor, Carhart moved off shore I emailed them about this (We Dress The American Work Force) and they said no way they could continue to make a quality product and be competitive, manufacturing in America. Yet there are manufactures making similar clothing right here and it cost less in some cases.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> We have done some jobs with specs that required American made, our purchasers found the absolute hardest parts to get that complied were simple nuts, bolts and washers. Yeah, no one in America seems to make 'hardware grade' hardware.
> 
> They even had trouble with people buying huge lots from overseas and repackaging them into boxes that had 'made in USA' on them.


 
Maybe the boxes were made here?

Probably not.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Ok, real reason why.
> ...


I shop local and buy from small businesses when possible, but my one monetary vote means nothing.


Most people are looking for the next bargain.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

brian john said:


> And the sad fact is SOME American Goods are equal to or surpass the quality of the Chinese "STUFF" and cost around the same price.
> 
> Look at Carhart and their competitor, Carhart moved off shore I emailed them about this (We Dress The American Work Force) and they said no way they could continue to make a quality product and be competitive, manufacturing in America. Yet there are manufactures making similar clothing right here and it cost less in some cases.


Carhardt is grossely overpriced! 
$65.00 for a zip-up hoodie! Give me a break!
I buy Wrangler and Lee Jeans. Good value for the money.
If Wranglers are good enough for Brett Favre, they're good enough for me. :laughing:


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I don't understand why America even wants to keep making shirts, shoes, nuts and bolts? If another country can make it cheaper, why do in country?

Who cares if Bangladesh makes your work pants, so long as they're priced right and quality is acceptable. 

Just trying to understand as a foreigner. Canada is very nationalistic, but I don't think we're very protectionist at all.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Someone more eloquent want to tackle this...I can't form sentences right now...lol


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

When will you guys get a clue. ITS CHEAPER TO MAKE IT OVERSEAS! Products would be sold for 3 times what they are now if they were made in America so less people would buy them. It's not complicated. If the Ipad cost $1,500 do you think anyone could afford it?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I know it's cheaper but can't we make stuff just because? If the IBEW wanted to it could make em and charge whatever it costs +.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> When will you guys get a clue. *ITS CHEAPER TO MAKE IT OVERSEAS!* Products would be sold for 3 times what they are now if they were made in America so less people would buy them. It's not complicated. If the Ipad cost $1,500 do you think anyone could afford it?


That is NOT ALWAYS the case.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm all for protecting industries that either a country is known for or is really good at producing.

But clothes? Who cares, source it to cheaper nations! In a globalize economy, you just have to be good at something, not chitty at everything. . 

That's why electricians specialize, or else we'd all be chitty at everything. That's why we hire apprentices, because they're cheaper and can do the simpler work. 

I could be missing some perspectives, but change is happening... Adapt and thrive or fight it and fall to the wayside.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Seems like a guy could make a mint if he identified the most popular couple niche markets that projects like these were having trouble finding made in the USA, and make them. You could have work release prisoners running a screw machine center.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Seems like a guy could make a mint if he identified the most popular couple niche markets that projects like these were having trouble finding made in the USA, and make them. You could have work release prisoners running a screw machine center.



LOL or those same work release prisoners making the oh so hard to find 1/4x40 bolts with a USA label! Shunk...you're onto something here! LOL


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

icefalkon said:


> LOL or those same work release prisoners making the oh so hard to find 1/4x40 bolts with a USA label! Shunk...you're onto something here! LOL


That's what I'm saying. This popped in my head because I looked over a TI in a building that had probably 100 idled Landis screw machines inside that haven't ran since the 70's. They're all going to the scrapyard. Near as I could tell, you could turn them on and run them tomorrow if you felt so inclined.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

WOW! Just sitting there waiting for the scrap guy? Did you see how much those die's cost used?? $275...easy!


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

It is the environmental laws and regulations - not the labor, nor the willingness or skill.

We cannot dump benzene in our rivers. China can. 

Either we do not allow environmentally damaging goods to cross our borders or we drop our own laws to remain competitive.

We can compete with slave labor rates - but we cannot compete with their uncivilized work practices.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> It is the environmental laws and regulations - not the labor, nor the willingness or skill.
> 
> We cannot dump benzene in our rivers. China can.
> 
> ...


You can go on about that stuff all day but it all comes down to us shopping by price.

We need to stop trying to blame other countries and look at ourselves.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> You can go on about that stuff all day but it all comes down to us shopping by price.
> 
> We need to stop trying to blame other countries and look at ourselves.


You are essentially correct, but we are not given the opportunity to even purchase more expensive goods. There are a lot of reasons for that, but the biggest one is businesses make more money selling cheaper goods.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

eejack said:


> You are essentially correct, but we are not given the opportunity to even purchase more expensive goods. There are a lot of reasons for that, but the biggest one is businesses make more money selling cheaper goods.



So open your own "made in American" business and get rich. People want made in American but they won't pay for "made in America." Businesses make more money, but we also save more money. IF businesses make more money they can hire more people anyways. 

This reminds me of a new tariff that was recently put on solar panels. They become so expensive that people wont hire contractors to install them on their homes. This hurts the contractors so no one wins. They aren't made here because no one can afford them if they are made here, so home owners don't get the panels, and contractors don't get the work to install them. Might as well make them overseas.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> It is the environmental laws and regulations - not the labor, nor the willingness or skill.
> 
> *We cannot dump benzene in our rivers.* China can.
> 
> ...


And as we try to reign in pollution to curb global warming China and India will bury us. China now produces twice the air pollutants we do and they are just ramping up.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

It's all a vicious cycle for sure. People need jobs and there are lots that could be brought back here. But there is that mentality here of "that work is below me" or I'm holding out for a management position". My opinion is sometimes the job may not be exactly where you want to be but right now with the economy you have to do what you have to do. But a lot of people this day in age don't think that way they want it all handed to them right now.

But like Brian said as one person you really don't make these companies quiver if you take your business else where most of the time. It is a sad shame.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

henderson14 said:


> So open your own "made in American" business and get rich.


I haven't the energy or ambition, but I do try to buy American whenever possible, even it is a bit more money. American made redwing boots for example usually run $30 or so more than their china versions. Wigwam socks. Lots of small things. 

The big one is American vehicles. Our second largest purchase - vast amounts of money being sent overseas when excellent and affordable vehicles are being made right here. American assembled foreign cars are at least assembled here, but the big money still goes overseas.

Our hand tools. How many of our tools are cheap chinese crap? I try to pick up American made tools whenever possible ( though it is getting tougher and tougher to figure out who makes what ).

I don't know what the answer is. I know the answer involves us paying more and importing less. I'm pretty sure it involves less folks going to college and more folks going to trade schools. It is a good guess the answer will involve some really crappy economic times.

We are like junkies. Business has us hooked on cheap. Maybe it is time to go cold turkey.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> You are essentially correct, but we are not given the opportunity to even purchase more expensive goods. There are a lot of reasons for that, but the biggest one is businesses make more money selling cheaper goods.


Not essentially correct, just correct.

We did have an opertunity to do so in the past but we ignored it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> And as we try to reign in pollution to curb global warming China and India will bury us. China now produces twice the air pollutants we do and they are just ramping up.


Which is exactly what we did when we were up and coming. Again I say, we need to stop making excuses, stop looking to other countries to blame and look at our own actions.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Which is exactly what we did when we were up and coming. Again I say, we need to stop making excuses, stop looking to other countries to blame and look at our own actions.


 
Bob there is no excuse there in my post the fact that we did IT in the past has NOTHING to do with today, we were ignorant to what we were doing, we had this feeling or belief of divine intervention working on our behalf. We know better know (and many most likely knew better then but did not give a rats ass), we know warming is happening and we know some of the causes. The Chinese and Indians have surpassed us in pollutants and some say they could give a rats ass.

Those are some of the facts as I see it and I could care less about how cheap Walmart is I do not shop there because I find the place to be a dump, the pollution is a complete other issue..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> Bob there is no excuse there in my post the fact that we did IT in the past has NOTHING to do with today,


In my opinion pointing to China's lack of pollution controls as a reason for our problems is just an excuse. 

It is not any countries concern for us but us. If we want to fix things it has to be from ourselves. No import tariff is going to fix things. That would be just another band aid to cover the issue with ourselves that we all want it all and we all want it to be cheap. 

In my personal opinion I think there has to be a fundamental change in peoples exceptions before we ever have a chance of digging out of the hole we have dug for ourselves. We would need to have a WWII type national mentality and make sacrifices ......... do any of you see that happening today? 

OK, rant off, really gotta get to work and make money so I can get me a bigger TV.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> It is not any countries concern for us but us. If we want to fix things it has to be from ourselves. No import tariff is going to fix things. That would be just another band aid to cover the issue with ourselves that we all want it all and we all want it to be cheap.
> 
> .


 The UN is expecting us to curtail our carbon output. Seems if the world countries want us to minimize our pollution the other contries contributing more at this time should be on board as well.

NOTHING to do with Walmart as I said.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Does it matter? Who can tell?

I'm not trying to be a wise guy ... but the simple fact is that parts, tools, most manufactured stuff ... just like the gas in your car, you have no idea where it came from. Once something enters the market, the facts of the market take over.

The 'price' is what the customer pays. The good Lord did not make you or I any "better" or "wiser" or "smarter" than some peasant in a rice paddy on the other side of the world. In terms of supplying me with some widget, that guy around the world is starting off at a disadvantage .... he not only has to make the thing, he has to get it to me. 

We cannot ignore the factors that contribute to the cost of getting something to me. If I place loads of restrictions and conditions on my neighbor, I'm making it easier for that guy around the world. At some point his cost + shipping wil become less than my neighbors' cost. 

We've been handicapping ourselves for decades. Are we surprised at the results? Is it any surprise that the great building going up today are in Shanghai and Dubai and Mumbai (Bombay)? Think about that the next time someone runs for office promising he's going to handicap the 'other guy.' 

Forget some of the rhetoric about slave labor, etc., for a moment. Perhaps the biggest handicapof all is our out-of-control spending. Folks work, they want to get paid. It's that simple. What "deficit" and "debt" really mean is that our own money is worthless. What once cost us $1 now costs $20. Simple inflation. Yet, for the guy overseas, whose currency has not been cheapened, his $5 cost has remained $5. Suddenly, he has a heck of a price advantage over the guy whose cost is $20.

There's our problem .... all those fingers pointing overseas, while the real culprit is ... US. Every bailout, subsidy, tax, regulation, or benefit places us at a greater disadvantage.

We don't need to fight imports; we need to stop handicapping ourselves.


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