# PLC technician or Union Electrician



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

Hey guys. I've been messaging a few people about their experience getting into PLCs. It seems like you would have to leave the union in order to do the programming. Has anyone started out as a journeyman but ended up having to become a technician in order to actually program and install PLCs? I've heard so much mixed information. I've heard that PLCs are being said phased out. I've heard that only pipe fitters do the programming. I've heard that electricians only install and not program. So as of right now I'm just going to take PLC classes at my union and do some personal reading. Does anyone have any further insight on the questions I've asked? Thanks!


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

"Pipe fitters do the programming".
Are you trolling?


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

John Valdes said:


> "Pipe fitters do the programming".
> Are you trolling?


I think so. 

"I've heard that PLCs are being said phased out." 

If pipe fitters start doing the programming you might as well phase them out :laughing:


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Ive noticed, at least here, that the mechanical controls are maintained by the mechanical contractors as part of their equipment. 
Other systems that I have been part of, we do the pipe and wire installation and the equipment manufacturer provides the parts and smarts. 
I would think that if you had some kind of and EE degree, you could get picked up and trained by some of the equipment folks. 
I have asked a technician a time or two how they get into the field and its either someone that has had considerable field experience which is the exception, or someone that has some kind of electrical degree.

I wouldn't expect to be a sudden career shift from the average pipe and wire guy to working as a field technician.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

JoeCool612 said:


> Hey guys. I've been messaging a few people about their experience getting into PLCs. It seems like you would have to leave the union in order to do the programming.


Might be true, but it totally depends on the contract involved. In one municipality I work with for example, the Electricians are Union, but their contract strictly forbids them from doing any PLC programming, in fact they are not allowed to have a Laptop on site. But the PLC programming is not done by "technicians" either, it is done by Engineers, so you being a Technician would not get you a PLC programming job there. In another plant I work with that has a Union contract, the Union Electricians are responsible for keeping the plant running, INCLUDING troubleshooting the PLCs when necessary. They don't usually program them from scratch for a machine, that's done by the Engineers, but once the machine is installed, it become the total responsibility of the Union Electricians.



> Has anyone started out as a journeyman but ended up having to become a technician in order to actually program and install PLCs?


 This is exactly the situation that takes place at the second example I gave. Not ALL of the Uniion Electricians work on PLCs, they need training and some of them are not interested. 


> I've heard so much mixed information. I've heard that PLCs are being said phased out.


That message has been floating around out there for 30 years... basically as long as PLCs have existed. It stems from the PC people who believe there is nothing fundamentally different about a PLC from a PC, but that has not proven to be true in 30 years so far... mostly because nobody has built a PC or Operating System that is as reliable as a PLC.



> I've heard that only pipe fitters do the programming.


Total garbage...



> I've heard that electricians only install and not program.


Again, see example #1 above, it MIGHT be true under some contract situations..



> So as of right now I'm just going to take PLC classes at my union and do some personal reading.


Good plan.


----------



## bin95 (Jan 27, 2012)

*PLC Jobs (I removed resource links, in hope Dennis Alwon doesn't delete again for Adv*

High Joe. Basically all descriptions are correct. I have been in the PLC training business for about 30 years. So I have both experienced some of the occupations but more important to this conversation, worked with all types of industries, plants, union, and non.

With union jobs, your PLC programming opportunities will limited, as the rules vary per chapter, per company/contract. Typical they like to partition that job role, so it is another rung on the ladder (pun intended) to pay increases. But union shops only make up a small part of all the companies needing PLC programming skills. When you consider all the industries (process and manufacturing, infrastructure, transportation, machine OEMs, etc. etc. etc.), union shops only make up a fraction of opportunities.

The good news for you, and others reading this, in the majority of the other non-union employers, the partitioning of PLC program from other maintenance and installation jobs, is the opposite. As you will learn in this article (google: "What's an Industrial Maintenance Technician"), most would rather save the money of paying a separate mechanic, electrician, millwright, machinist, *PLC technician*, and instead have them all rolled into one over tasked employee ... '*the maintenance tech*'.

Granted the above is about one definition of a PLC programmer. (To upload/download PLC programs, troubleshoot and make minor changes to existing programs. IE: to maintain equipment with PLCs in them.) The other definition (and in much less demand) is the PLC programmer who is really and industrial automation engineer. (designing systems or at least entire PLC program from scratch for newly designed machines and systems.) for the latter, you need to at least get an electrical engineering degree. 

But based on your description of feed back when you asked others about getting into PLCs, I'd guess you are refreshing to making miner modification, small in-house projects for a manufacturer. When I first started out, manufacturing had separate mechanic, electrician, PLC tech. Then I watch the industry get on the bean counter kick of reducing number of employees required,thus came cross training and the very familiar "Maintenance Tech". :blink:

Now days, if it is non-union shop and not a federally regulated industry like food manufacturers or power plants are, a maintenance manager is looking for PLC skills more than any other. Because most applicants can do electrical work, may even be willing to do mechanical, machining, etc. But those applicants skilled in PLCs are far and few in between. so you made a good choice pursing your union PLC training and reading up. a good start.

As for PLCs being phased out, it is true, but nowhere near the extent or time frame others would like one to believe, even PLC OEMs would like you to believe. thing key driver that makes phasing them out a slow process (whoops, another pun), is the mentality if it ain't broke, don't fix it. PLCs where built so reliable, they last for 10-30 years with like problems. When some say they are being phased out, they are most likely referring to being replaced (upgraded) to a PAC (Process Automation Controller). Out of some that are on the other side of the argument stating they are not being phased out, have not been properly trained in PLCs so don't really understand (Google: "PLC vs PAC Difference") *the difference between a PLC and a PAC*. The truth is, PLCs are being phased out, to PACs, but ever so slowly. The largest contributing factor to the PAC showing up in plants, is when they buy a new machine. Most new systems and machines will be PACs. But plants don't purchase new machines very often, and they definitely will not replace every machine with a PLC, to a PAC. so it is going to take many years, you will still need PLC training. Plus it is best to master or at least learn PLCs, before moving to take the much more complex *PAC Training*(a customized industrial computer). The change rate will vary by industry, and industry segments (like infrastructure, transportation, msc. etc.), and vary by geographical location and company size.

So any way you skin it, you getting PLC training was a good move. May not open many doors for you where you are at, but will open an astronomical amount of doors for you in the rest of the country's, even world's, industries and geographical locations.


----------



## FTC (Oct 10, 2016)

Do you not have instrumentation tech as a option? The programing is much more in depth than than what I found at least in school the electrical side and includes loop tuning as well as other related skills. I assume your an American?


----------



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

FTC said:


> Do you not have instrumentation tech as a option? The programing is much more in depth than than what I found at least in school the electrical side and includes loop tuning as well as other related skills. I assume your an American?


Actually. I found out today they do. What's the difference between instrumentation and PLCs?


----------



## FTC (Oct 10, 2016)

http://https://bc.tradesinfo.ca/trade-information/instrumentation-and-control-technician/description?at=3236756 this is fairly good description of instrumentation. I imagine a plc tech is more focused on the programming.


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

Okay, so here is kind of a rundown for you (me being all of these things. I'm not union, but am working as an electrician while I go to school for electrical engineering and already have an AAS in Mechatronics, which deals with industrial machine control and manufacturing processes).

Union Electrician: These guys do the installs. You have a master that reads the prints for the install and directs journeyman and apprentices to do the work. There is a hierarchy here. A lot of times, this tends to be repetition, and there is a lot of new construction type work. This category is pretty broad. An aircraft company in my area, for instance, only hires union workers for the electrical systems, and has an area of specialty for big power, in-plant distribution (think running conduit and pulling wire), machine control electricians and some of the machine control electricians do programming and robotics, some mainly troubleshoot and install.

Then, there are PLC techs. Now, PLC techs tend to not perform large system installs. They generally do all sorts of controls, make changes as processes and equipment are modified and do maintenance in industrial facilities. Sometimes this involves programming, but is mostly troubleshooting and being familiar with PLC systems in order to quickly and accurately diagnose and repair issues. Typically, new machines and process programming and production jobs are done by an engineer or someone who has a large amount of experience dealing with PLCs and has learned to program in the process of fixing them for so many years. These guys (usually) tend to write the best programs in my opinion, as they are written to be easy to read and troubleshoot without all the bells and whistles engineers like to put in for the purpose of eloquence. Bubba and Tom really need to be able to easily read your program at 2AM to find out what you did, how it works and to troubleshoot the problem.

Instrumentation techs. These guys deal with a lot of devices that monitor something. Tank level, flow, temperature. They will end up dealing with process controllers, installation and configuration of new instruments and diagnostic and replacement of instruments. Think about 4-20mA signals, 0-10V signals, HART communicators and the like. EDIT: forgot to add here that it works in the inverse as well. You can have a valve or such that is controlled by a 4-20mA signal to open or close to a certain point based on the signal.

The important thing to realize here, is that a lot of these fields can overlap. Here are a few examples:

PLC technician gets a call that the tank level isn't showing up properly on the SCADA or HMI system. There is obviously something wrong with the PLC. Upon further inspection he notices that he is getting strange signals from the 4-20mA ultrasonic level sensor. He changes the sensor and the tank level goes back to normal. Dealing with the sensor would typically be in the realm of an instrumentation tech.

Instrumentation tech gets a call that the tank level sensor isn't working properly. He puts his process meter on the PLC IO sources a 4-20mA signal to find out that the analog IO card is not properly reading the sensor. He then replaces the analog card of the PLC and the tank level starts working properly, which would typically be the job of a PLC tech.

An electrician is called in because a machine isn't getting power. He takes a voltage reading at the disconnect and find 480VAC between all phases. So he decides since he is here he will open up the control cabinet and sees that lights aren't coming on everywhere they should be. He takes a voltage reading and traces the wire down to a safety relay, where he finds a loose 0VDC wire. He cleans up and terminates the wire, and the machine comes to life. This would typically be something a "PLC Tech" would end up finding.

You see, depending on your environment all these jobs cross over with each other. I did not even go into soft skills (such as dealing with scheduling and deadlines, or dealing with panicky production managers), computer skills (software, troubleshooting, etc), networking or any of the other stuff involved.

Even if you choose to just be a union construction electrician, you are going to want to understand how stuff works. It seems like you want to be more than that though, so what I suggest is that you learn and never stop learning. Listen to everyone you can and learn from them. Be a sponge. PLC's and PAC's are everywhere, and aren't going away any time soon. But there are also DCS systems, all in one HMI-PLC systems, automation PC systems, electronic-controlled systems and hard-wired systems. Think about the philosophy involved in controlling something. The LOGIC behind it is what matters. The medium becomes a matter of figuring out the quirks of that particular system at that point. Learn about different instruments and how they operate. Don't be the guy that can plug into a PLC and look at the lights on the inputs and outputs. Be the guy that can look at the need, design the system and cabinet. Install it. Run power to it. Run power to the field IO, get it on the network so that it can talk to an HMI, design the HMI, etc etc, and while your at it can rough in a house or pipe in a commercial building.

Spend some time in each area of expertise and take classes where you need to get stronger. You really have two options to get into more controls-type work. You can approach various manufacturing industries and start out low-level maintenance and work your way up, find a controls firm that will hire you and train you, or go to school.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

I had a friend who was an "Instrumentation Technologist" for the Navy. His job was to walk around reading gauges and if the reading looked odd, he was to tap it with the handle of his screwdriver. If it still read as out of spec, he called someone else. When he got out of the Navy, he landed a job as an Instrumentation Tech at Chevron, but unbeknownst to them it was all on-the-job learning for him.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

JRaef said:


> I had a friend who was an "Instrumentation Technologist" for the Navy. His job was to walk around reading gauges and if the reading looked odd, he was to tap it with the handle of his screwdriver. If it still read as out of spec, he called someone else. When he got out of the Navy, he landed a job as an Instrumentation Tech at Chevron, *but unbeknownst to them it was all on-the-job learning for him*.


It happens more often than you might think in very similar situations.


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

sparkiez said:


> Okay, so here is kind of a rundown for you (me being all of these things. I'm not union, but am working as an electrician while I go to school for electrical engineering and already have an AAS in Mechatronics, which deals with industrial machine control and manufacturing processes).
> 
> Union Electrician: These guys do the installs. You have a master that reads the prints for the install and directs journeyman and apprentices to do the work. There is a hierarchy here. A lot of times, this tends to be repetition, and there is a lot of new construction type work. This category is pretty broad. An aircraft company in my area, for instance, only hires union workers for the electrical systems, and has an area of specialty for big power, in-plant distribution (think running conduit and pulling wire), machine control electricians and some of the machine control electricians do programming and robotics, some mainly troubleshoot and install.
> 
> ...


You wrote a book


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

dronai said:


> You wrote a book


He asked a very, very broad question :whistling2:


----------



## drnoodle (Aug 23, 2017)

Hi,

I have no experience as a union electrican, although I always see them rolling around in expensive, flashy, personal trucks, so they must get paid well.

I work industrial. The place I work at has a lot of PLCs which often get dumped on to my plate because I'm the one with programming experience. I've witnessed no stigma in the industry in regards to PLC's or the people who deal with them. Automation is the way of the future, and anyone who says anything different isn't paying attention.

_"I've heard that only pipe fitters do the programming."_

I think I know where this comes from. It comes from DDC's, which are basically specialized PLC's built specifically for building automation and HVAC control. They are often installed and maintained by sub-contractors of the mechanical contractor. In new-development and most new construction, DDC and building automation usually falls under the purview of the mechanical division (at least where I'm from). You do have to be a ticketed electrician to do DDC installs, but you will often work as a sub-contractor for a mechanical prime. New-construction building automation is easily the most visible form of automation in plain view of the other trades, so its easy to see how they formed the opinion that "only pipe fitters do the programming".

PLC's are a lot of fun if you like programming and logic puzzles. It is an absolute hell if you don't. Tuning PID loops, scaling instrumentation, sequence of operations, etc. All of these things will excite some people and frustrate others. *Only go into it if you like this sort of stuff*. I can't stress that enough. No amount of money is worth being miserable.

Its not that hard; it just requires you to think. That is not a ubiquitous trait among electricians. Half the electricians I've known just want to turn their brain off and follow a print. I've successfully created, troubleshooted and debugged PLC programs only to walk away with my peers looking at me like I'm some sort of wizard. Its good job security if you can get it.


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

drnoodle said:


> PLC's are a lot of fun if you like programming and logic puzzles. It is an absolute hell if you don't. Tuning PID loops, scaling instrumentation, sequence of operations, etc. All of these things will excite some people and frustrate others. *Only go into it if you like this sort of stuff*. I can't stress that enough. No amount of money is worth being miserable.
> 
> Its not that hard; it just requires you to think. That is not a ubiquitous trait among electricians. Half the electricians I've known just want to turn their brain off and follow a print. I've successfully created, troubleshooted and debugged PLC programs only to walk away with my peers looking at me like I'm some sort of wizard. Its good job security if you can get it.


You nailed it with this one. If you aren't into solving problems and just want to go to work, do work and go home, then the ADVANCED controls and instrumentation side isn't your thing.

We always joked about PLC's being little black boxes with wizards inside that made stuff happen to the mechanics :jester:


----------



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

drnoodle said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have no experience as a union electrican, although I always see them rolling around in expensive, flashy, personal trucks, so they must get paid well.
> 
> ...


How do I send you a private message?


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

sparkiez said:


> You nailed it with this one. If you aren't into solving problems and just want to go to work, do work and go home, then the ADVANCED controls and instrumentation side isn't your thing.
> 
> We always joked about PLC's being little black boxes with wizards inside that made stuff happen to the mechanics :jester:



Aren't you the guy troubleshooting the roach invested trailer with the kid following you around :lol:


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

dronai said:


> Aren't you the guy troubleshooting the roach invested trailer with the kid following you around :lol:


Hey, I ain't scared, plus it is flexible for school.


----------



## cmdr_suds (Jul 29, 2016)

drnoodle said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> _"I've heard that only pipe fitters do the programming."_
> ...


Many years back building temperature controls were pneumatics. They were installed by pipe fitters(often called poly plumbers). They also serviced the systems after they were install. They had to know and understand the controls. As time moved forward many temperature control contractors simply trained those guys on the newer electronic systems. Now a days, most are technicians with formal schooling (ie. Two year technical college) I think a lot of TCC contractors may still use pipe fitters to install the field devices such ad temperature sensors, damper and valve actuators and let the sparkys pull and terminate the cables. Johnson Controls and Siemens are probably the two largest TCC contractors in the states.

Sent from my LG-AS330 using Tapatalk


----------



## drnoodle (Aug 23, 2017)

cmdr_suds said:


> Many years back building temperature controls were pneumatics.



This is still very much the case. I used to work in service for a company that did (among other things) building automation. I knew many facility operators and building owners who would fight tooth and nail to keep their pneumatic controls. Quite simply, they understood them. They just didn't trust the electronic stuff. I can't say I blame them, really. There are buildings out there 4 decades old with this stuff in it. Despite the occasional part swap or air leak they show no signs of breaking or slowing down.

Anyway, despite the "pipe fitter" rumor, automation is a HUGE field and is only growing stronger. As with technology, the specific tech and terminology will change and adapt (PLC to DDC to PAC to etc), but there is no question automation is the way of the future.

I just wish they could figure out whos domain it is supposed to be. Electricians? Engineers? Technologists? Computer Science majors? All of the above? I know there is overlap, but there is no question the industry is in flux and no one can seem to agree where its headed.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

cmdr_suds said:


> Many years back building temperature controls were pneumatics. They were installed by pipe fitters(often called poly plumbers). They also serviced the systems after they were install. They had to know and understand the controls. As time moved forward many temperature control contractors simply trained those guys on the newer electronic systems. Now a days, most are technicians with formal schooling (ie. Two year technical college) I think a lot of TCC contractors may still use pipe fitters to install the field devices such ad temperature sensors, damper and valve actuators and let the sparkys pull and terminate the cables. Johnson Controls and Siemens are probably the two largest TCC contractors in the states.
> 
> Sent from my LG-AS330 using Tapatalk


They can have pneumatic controls, I hate that antique crap!


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

drnoodle said:


> This is still very much the case. I used to work in service for a company that did (among other things) building automation. I knew many facility operators and building owners who would fight tooth and nail to keep their pneumatic controls. Quite simply, they understood them. They just didn't trust the electronic stuff. I can't say I blame them, really. There are buildings out there 4 decades old with this stuff in it. Despite the occasional part swap or air leak they show no signs of breaking or slowing down.
> 
> Anyway, despite the "pipe fitter" rumor, automation is a HUGE field and is only growing stronger. As with technology, the specific tech and terminology will change and adapt (PLC to DDC to PAC to etc), but there is no question automation is the way of the future.
> 
> I just wish they could figure out whos domain it is supposed to be. Electricians? Engineers? Technologists? Computer Science majors? All of the above? I know there is overlap, but there is no question the industry is in flux and no one can seem to agree where its headed.



I've worked for several companies that installed all types of building automation and energy management controls, that was the last twenty plus years of my work history. 

HVAC/R was the largest portion of the control work we did but the last few companies I worked for were dual breasted companies being electrical and also mechanical contractors. However the pipe fitters may have installed some of the control valves and that type thing but they had zero to do with wiring, commissioning, or servicing the systems or components once installed.


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

drnoodle said:


> I just wish they could figure out whos domain it is supposed to be. Electricians? Engineers? Technologists? Computer Science majors? All of the above? I know there is overlap, but there is no question the industry is in flux and no one can seem to agree where its headed.


And to top that off, how do you answer the question when someone asks "What you do for a living." I have been telling people that I just do automation and whatever comes with it, but in reality you have to be a mechanic, a programmer, a graphics designer, a database/systems admin, a network specialist, an electrician, a fluid power specialist and the list keeps growing.

When I troubleshoot a problem, they may say they *suspect* it is electrical, often times its a matter of picking which of any of the above mentioned systems is having an issue and then troubleshooting that section of the system. The field of Mechatronics has that idea covered quite well.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sparkiez said:


> "What you do for a living."
> 
> I have been telling people that I just do automation and whatever comes with it, but in reality you have to be a mechanic, a programmer, a graphics designer, a database/systems admin, a network specialist, an electrician, a fluid power specialist and the list keeps growing.


Just say controls and building automation.

Does it really matter how you spend your work day or what it entails as long as you get that hefty paycheck weekly?


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just say controls and building automation.
> 
> Does it really matter how you spend your work day or what it entails as long as you get that hefty paycheck weekly?


Uh, you see my thread about the roach-infested trailer?


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sparkiez said:


> Uh, you see my thread about the roach-infested trailer?


Sure have. 

With things like that you are preaching to the choir.

I've been in crawlspaces where the roaches could steal your tools.


----------



## drnoodle (Aug 23, 2017)

sparkiez said:


> And to top that off, how do you answer the question when someone asks "What you do for a living."


You know in those action movies? The ones where the bad guys take hostages inside a building like a bank or a office building. The police show up and surround the building and after a few rounds of cliche **** waving to establish jurisdiction, the guy in charge inevitability says:

"Take me to the 'control room'"!

Inside the "control room" there is a wall with hundreds of computer screens and 3d displays showing the inside of the building. From there they can shut down the elevator, or shut off air circulation to part of the building, or maybe turn the lights on and off. Basically they can control anything about the building that the plot needs them to.

I just tell people that I build and install those fancy computer systems. Pretty much everyone has seen at least one of these types of movies so it gives them something to relate to.

After that I try not to go into too much detail because it will just lead to disappointment. 

I did tell my mother-in-law I worked in HVAC when we first met. She spent the better part of two years believing I sold and installed vacuums before someone corrected her.

YMMV


----------



## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

I started on DDC in the early 70's with Shell UK with their Foxboro instal on their refinery and then coming to Canada it was Honeywell Custodian ; that was actually an early design from the now Reliable Controls under licence . Graphical interface made all the difference!


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

The "PLC" design is shifting. Modern PLCs are really specialized industrial computers. Some brands actually run Linux as the underlying operating system. They used to be a program design called an interpreter. Today's systems are often compilers and the system runs on common CPUs such as Intel Atom or ARM.

In prior years we had the motion controller which was usually written in C or later a function block language. It operated in sub millisecond speeds unlike PLCs that operated in several millisecond speeds. At the other end there is this strange mix of HMI and massive amounts of analog I/O designed mostly to do process control with tons of PID loops called the DCS but since processes are slow, typical cycle times were around 250 ms. The Allen Bradley PLC-5 incorporated what the DCS did and so over time the DCS became obsolete. The latest PLCs also incorporate motion control and all the various popular control languages, so the motion controllers are starting to be phased out for a single platform. So the new buzzword for this is the "PAC". It still basically works like a PLC but it has a lot more capabilities compared to the old ones.

But thats all details that the end user never sees. What you will see is ladder logic in North America 95% of the time. This is a language that looks very similar to ladder electrical diagrams which are standard in controls schematics. It is NOT a schematic but it is close enough that it is easy to understand coming from an e!ectrical background. This makes it much easier to troubleshoot compared to a PC program. Ladder logic is heavily oriented towards processing a lot of inputs and outputs, something that can be done but not as cleanly in a PC language which is more oriented towards processing data like a file or a photo., not a push button.

There are four other standard languages and there is a standard so PLCs tend to look more and more alike. The other languages are there to appease certain niches. For instance " structured text" is quite literally the PC language Pascal. It is there to make it easy for PC programmers to use PLCs. But obviously electricians and other technicians will have a very hard time reading it. Function block is designed for analog signals and comes from DCS systems. It is easy to read too and looks like signal diagrams but technicians are so entrenched in ladder logic that there us heavy resistance to using it unless the PLC replaced a DCS.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kwilli1st (Jan 28, 2017)

i believe function block is a hell of lot easier and more compact when it comes to programming than ladder logic. we use a majority of A-B PLC-5 on the paper machines at my job, but each machine now has logix-5000 on at least one area of the machine, which allows function block programming. PID or EPID's with tag names instead of N:01 or B:01 so you know what process your actually looking at.


----------



## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

> Actually. I found out today they do. What's the difference between instrumentation and PLCs?


Instrument tech here, I'd be happy to elaborate. 

Instrumentation is ultimately about the automation of industrial processes, and we cover process control "end to end". That means everything from sensors (these are the "instruments" in instrumentation) which monitor industrial processes and the mechanisms that control said process, communications between these devices and the I/O of centralized control computers (PLCs, DCS, whatever), programming said central control (ladder logic, function block, control algorithms and tuning these algorithms, etc.), as well as the communications and programming of the HMIs which allow operators to interact with the process. Suffice to say it's a very broad field. The only thing we tend _not_ to get into is high voltage, instrumentation influence tends to only go as far as VFDs.

Because we deal with the entire picture of automation, I'd like to say PLC programming "belongs" to instrumentation, but in reality it's something we'd have to share with an industrial electrician skillset, just for different applications. The question is, what does the word "automation" mean to you? Automation for instrumentation is completely focused on whatever a facility produces, which means delving into loop tuning and more advanced process control dynamics. If you go off the deep end in that direction, you get into Chemical Engineering and none of us want to go there. Automation for industrial electricians is more along the lines of discreet I/O logic for facilities... i.e. motors and generators, HVAC, lighting, alarms, etc. If you're more interested in strictly PLC programming than the entirety of the subject of automation, the latter would probably be a better choice.

Content-wise, instrumentation is a bear. It's a very broad, very complex field that can be a bit much depending on your personality. Career-wise, it's probably easier to get into a PLC on the instrumentation side, but I wouldn't go that route unless you're truly interested in it. For what it's worth, I have an instrumentation skillset and I'd like to move more towards an industrial electrician role in manufacturing.

Some other notes:

(1) PLCs aren't being phased out, you probably heard that because of the advent of DCS. For all intents and purposes, the same ideas are used in both, all that has changed is the power of communication and synchronization between control hardware across a facility.

(2) Pipefitters will not be doing automation work any time soon. They do get involved with the installation of automation equipment, though, as their expertise is required to install automation components that interface with the process.

(3) The nature of these environments means that everyone will often do more physical installation or repair than programming. Commissioning will do physical install and some programming, maintenance will do physical repair and some programming, it's just where more work tends to be. How much you get to do really depends on your organization--whether there's a specialist for the programming aspects, and the facilities you work at--are they finely tuned machine that rarely needs software adjustments, or the type of place where you're a one-man-army whose on the front line, fiddling with stuff to make it work.


----------

