# Todays switchgear cleaning and PM



## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

POCO came, disconnected lines and grounded the transformer at 8 am (scheduled for 7 am :whistling2.

Fired up the genny, shopvac, flood lights and went to work.

4000A service with 200A - 800A breakers. One of four we are doing this week. Cleaned, re-torqued and exercised breakers, had to add some phase tape, remove pull strings, etc... Zip ties were in place and customer wanted them left as is.

Pics are from various stages...


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

The compressed air is a good idea.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

As a rule, we will retorque bolted connections, but never wire lug connections. 

Looks nice, though. What do you guys clean the breakers with?


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm still waiting for the day where I find a dangerously loose connection on a clean and torque.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Just curious, but is there a reason to use canned compressed air over a portable air compressor? Or was there just not one available?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

jza said:


> I'm still waiting for the day where I find a dangerously loose connection on a clean and torque.


 I've seen it on seriously misaligned switchgear sections where there was a huge amount of sheer-force on the bolts: The bolt and threads jammed in the holes, and the bottom nut was at proper torque, but you could spin the washer at the top with your finger.

New gear. Found the poor connection via IR.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

FastFokker said:


> Just curious, but is there a reason to use canned compressed air over a portable air compressor? Or was there just not one available?


Didn't want to kick up a bunch of dust all at once and have it linger in the gear room.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

jza said:


> I'm still waiting for the day where I find a dangerously loose connection on a clean and torque.


After a service call a few months ago for an "electrical smell" and opening the panel to find this, everything was shut down for a full service on the gear.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Big John said:


> As a rule, we will retorque bolted connections, but never wire lug connections.
> 
> Looks nice, though. What do you guys clean the breakers with?


Mix of CRC NT, XT-2000, and Contact Cleaner 2000 on contacts and a clean cloth on plastic housings.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

What is the size of service there 2000? Could not tell if you had no one main there or group of mains there? If no main what size cross buss? Is there a ct section? Also how many sets on the service laterals from the pad? 
Open bottom gear is my favorite line of work.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

My bad should have read the top post "4000 amps" 
How many sets and what size?


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

123electric said:


> What is the size of service there 2000? Could not tell if you had no one main there or group of mains there? If no main what size cross buss? Is there a ct section? Also how many sets on the service laterals from the pad?
> Open bottom gear is my favorite line of work.



There is one main on the gear, I didn't get a pic with the cover off though. Bottom right corner of this pic.










Incoming feed











One more of the rear buss













There is a CT on the buss from the main but I didn't get a pic.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

zwodubber said:


> POCO came, disconnected lines and grounded the transformer at 8 am (scheduled for 7 am :whistling2.
> 
> Fired up the genny, shopvac, flood lights and went to work.
> 
> ...


Did you test the breakers? I fail to see the point of going through a shutdown and all that work and not testing the breakers. :blink::blink:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

We always use vacuums, which is why we call it the suck and wipe


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Zog said:


> Did you test the breakers? I fail to see the point of going through a shutdown and all that work and not testing the breakers. :blink::blink:


I personally did not, my coworker was testing while I worked on cleaning


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

zwodubber said:


> I personally did not, my coworker was testing while I worked on cleaning


Don't see any hint of testing anything. Looks like the breakers were not pulled. So you just cleaned and he pulled all those breakers out, tested them, filled out test reports, and re-installed them?


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

As I am a lowly mainly "house rat" could someone walk me thought the testing/PM procedures? 
I have never done this type of PM or testing and really want to learn as I find it interesting.
If there is anyone in the Northern Va. area and needs a "helper" let me know I want to learn.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Sparky J said:


> As I am a lowly mainly "house rat" could someone walk me thought the testing/PM procedures?
> I have never done this type of PM or testing and really want to learn as I find it interesting.
> If there is anyone in the Northern Va. area and needs a "helper" let me know I want to learn.


Nothing "lowly" about any part of our trade, just different stuff. This is interesting stuff, I love it, and I bet you can find your way into a company that does this type of work if you really want to. There are some in your area that do this work here on ET, maybe they will take you up on your offer.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Zog said:


> Don't see any hint of testing anything. Looks like the breakers were not pulled. So you just cleaned and he pulled all those breakers out, tested them, filled out test reports, and re-installed them?


I did not get pictures of all the activity, just some of the gear. I arrived early to retrieve my meter and produce PQ reports. There were four crew members including myself and I was not in the room the entire time. I spent the majority of the day on my reports while they focused on mechanical testing. I was merely a "helper" with panel removal and cleaning before breaker removal. When they started pulling breakers I grabbed a conference room and created my reports.

Just wanted to share some pics of the gear as most people don't really care about pictures of a meter.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Not sure if you are following me, not talking about a meter, have done hundreds of these jobs and can clearly see this is a blow and go, but hey, maybe that was all the customer required.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Zog said:


> Not sure if you are following me, not talking about a meter, have done hundreds of these jobs and can clearly see this is a blow and go, but hey, maybe that was all the customer required.



I'm with you, I'm just stating that I only grabbed pics when I was in the room. I was focused on my data while they did (or possibly didn't) do the breaker testing. I'll have to check with them and confirm what kind of testing they did and what the customer requested.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

FastFokker said:


> Just curious, but is there a reason to use canned compressed air over a portable air compressor? Or was there just not one available?


Air compressors can introduce moisture and oil. You could use one if it had a very good dryer and oil separator, aka "instrument air", but very few portable compressors will have that and remember, he was working off of a portable generator so it would have been a portable compressor too. It's easier to just get the canned air now.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

That equipment is small compared the switch gear, I worked P.M.'s on. We had 14 S/C Hv switchgear cubicles, that had to be maintained.
A lot of insulators to be polished, all contacts checked and lubricated, bolt torque check, etc. 15KV switchgear.
Plus transformer vaults, taking oil samples.


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## ohmontherange (May 7, 2008)

I'll bet this old gear could use a cleaning. Down in a deep, dark, damp, musty basement. Building tennants claim its haunted :laughing:

Early 50's Square D


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## ohmontherange (May 7, 2008)

Those feeders don't look like they are sized for 4000A


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ohmontherange said:


>


Needs more pilot lights. :blink: What on earth kinda gear is that?


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## ohmontherange (May 7, 2008)

Big John said:


> Needs more pilot lights. :blink: What on earth kinda gear is that?


Says Square D Company. There used to be a transformer vault in the adjacent room that fed this. I believe it a 4000A service. There is bus that extends from this cabinet thru the wall that the old transformer bank secondaries tied to. All gone now -Askarel filled pots removed and a pad mount feeds this monstrosity - cable tray thru the old vault with a 5hitload of paralleled 500's.

We bypassed this mess several years ago and put in a 400A 3P 208 service. We had to core drill thru the floor just outside the transformer vault & pipe thru the adjacent boiler room to a switch room. Elevator shafts blocked the remaining alley way access. Owner wanted nothing on the streetside. No room for a generator - put in a manual ATS with a big azz Appleton receptacle in a manhole streetside for a portable. 

A real piece of 5hit.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> Needs more pilot lights.


You can never have too many pilot lights :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

JRaef said:


> Air compressors can introduce moisture and oil. You could use one if it had a very good dryer and oil separator, aka "instrument air", but very few portable compressors will have that and remember, he was working off of a portable generator so it would have been a portable compressor too. It's easier to just get the canned air now.


We have a couple little dryer/filter rigs for portable compressors we use for cleaning and providing temp instrument air while we work on air systems.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Zog said:


> Nothing "lowly" about any part of our trade, just different stuff. This is interesting stuff, I love it, and I bet you can find your way into a company that does this type of work if you really want to. There are some in your area that do this work here on ET, maybe they will take you up on your offer.


Zog pass them my info. or vise versa they can PM me I welcome any help I want to learn.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

zwodubber said:


>


I don't mean to bust anyone's bubble here, but this type of compressed air may be extremely dangerous:

Some of these dusters have R152a as an active ingredient. This chemical is combustible (it burns) so there is the potential of fire and explosion. But that's not the worst of it: this product produces toxic gases hydrogen fluoride HF, and carbonyl fluoride. 

I had some of this crap ignite on me. It does indeed burn. I'm glad I left immediately when that weird smell of the white smoke creeped me out. HF gas is extremely toxic.

*Be extremely careful not to ignite this canned "air"
If it catches fire do not inhale the smoke. It could be lethal.*


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

jza said:


> I'm still waiting for the day where I find a dangerously loose connection on a clean and torque.


I did one recently where a thermal scan revealed a lot of loose connections which had been torqued to spec during the previous PM probably a year before. In a couple of 600 to 120/208 transformers I found connections loose enough to pull the wire out of the lug on all three phases without any special effort. Every feeder in the building was aluminum.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

Did you use cleaner on the cables they look extra shinny?


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

zwodubber said:


> I'm with you, I'm just stating that I only grabbed pics when I was in the room. I was focused on my data while they did (or possibly didn't) do the breaker testing. I'll have to check with them and confirm what kind of testing they did and what the customer requested.


Looks like about ten sets or so of aluminum coming in from your pad mount trans to the bottom fed CT section, almost looks like there all 4/0 aluminum? Hard to tell in the photos?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Vintage Sounds said:


> I did one recently where a thermal scan revealed a lot of loose connections which had been torqued to spec during the previous PM probably a year before. In a couple of 600 to 120/208 transformers I found connections loose enough to pull the wire out of the lug on all three phases without any special effort. Every feeder in the building was aluminum.


 Are these conductors being routinely retorqued on every PM? When I mentioned we don't do that as a rule, it's because while it seems counter-intuitive, continually tightening conductors can lead to them continually becoming loose. Especially on aluminum.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Big John,
When everyone keeps saying PM, there defining it as preventative maintenance?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

123electric said:


> Big John,
> When everyone keeps saying PM, there defining it as preventative maintenance?


 Yes'ir. Going in and having a look around to make sure the insulation isn't about to let the hot-lava escape. :jester:


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## arson (Jul 11, 2010)

Are these AL conductors terminated wire>lug without crimp on's?

In our jurisdiction it seems 500 kcmill copper is a thing of the past except for heavy industrial and even there if it isn't feeding machine/motor loads it's still 750 AL with a crimp on to the terminal lug.

This is all i have seen in the last few years as all spec'd aluminum feeders are crimped due to the PM of re torquing.

All of the medium voltage was done in copper XLP/huge MC at the heavy industrial level. 
SqD Airlock switches with 15kv nominal. With in house substations. And a POCO room with metal clad switchgear with only poco access after our installation and hipot/ elec engineer tested/commissioned. As the AHJ being null and void at the industrial level.. I was amazed no inspections as I have seen in the past at commercial level. I guess industrial is it's own beast. 
Amazing to see three phase 16A for a whole building @ 13,2. I think they are fused at 60A. 

Experience less the 5 years. Pretty neat 5hit to see and work on these installations. I am glad I became and electrician. 

OP:: Thanks for sharing your photos and techniques. Very informational for others in the field.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Some one else post some pictures here of open bottom switch gear, my favorite to play with and build! Pure electrical ****


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Big John said:


> Are these conductors being routinely retorqued on every PM? When I mentioned we don't do that as a rule, it's because while it seems counter-intuitive, continually tightening conductors can lead to them continually becoming loose. Especially on aluminum.





arson said:


> Are these AL conductors terminated wire>lug without crimp on's?
> 
> In our jurisdiction it seems 500 kcmill copper is a thing of the past except for heavy industrial and even there if it isn't feeding machine/motor loads it's still 750 AL with a crimp on to the terminal lug.
> 
> This is all i have seen in the last few years as all spec'd aluminum feeders are crimped due to the PM of re torquing.


This was a huge food storage and distribution facility with two 2000A 347/600v services. The connections inside the switchgear(parallel 750 AL) and other distribution equipment were all crimped and bolted, but there were a bunch of 45 and 75 kVA 600v-120/208v transformers all over the place and the connections in those were just regular old lugs. I'm not sure what happened on the previous PM aside from "torque everything" but this time we used a torque wrench on all lug connections. Some of the crimped connections also had to be torqued a bit on the recommendation of the thermal scan guy.

Interestingly for such a loose connection I would have expected burned insulation but I guess the load must have been fairly light. All lighting was 347v and the transformers only seemed to be powering computers in offices.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Zog said:


> Not sure if you are following me, not talking about a meter, have done hundreds of these jobs and can clearly see* this is a blow and go*, but hey, maybe that was all the customer required.


:yes:


there was no trip testing done from the sounds of it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

360max said:


> :yes:
> 
> 
> there was no trip testing done from the sounds of it.


In my experience many of the firms offering JUST EPM services, clean tighten and leave, no megger, no ductor, no trip GFP or overcurrent testing of any type.

Often they never touch bolted pressure switches (other than to tighten connections) one of the highest failure items in a 600 VAC class switchboard with fused mains.

Have seen windex and spray 9 used in switchboards, factory installed grease removed and the equipment left un-lubricated or the wrong grease utilized. 

To me this service offered by those that are not qualified (in my opinion) , is the same as plumbers wiring houses. There would be a riot here if plumbers were logging in discussing how they wired a house or commercial establishment.

I am by no means the smartest person out there but what I learned about maintenance and testing did not come in a two week class. 

We compete against firms like this all the time and it can be frustrating, but it is part of the business you get what you pay for.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

brian john said:


> In my experience many of the firms offering JUST EPM services, clean tighten and leave, no megger, no ductor, no trip GFP or overcurrent testing of any type.
> 
> Often they never touch bolted pressure switches (other than to tighten connections) one of the highest failure items in a 600 VAC class switchboard with fused mains.
> 
> ...


Welcome back :thumbup:


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## arson (Jul 11, 2010)

WHAT!

You dont just wipe them down and spray wd-40 in the breaker and exercise and go on to the next one!?

hahaha. 

That would suck to have to compete with that style of pm, very frustrating but once they have some blown up switchgear with months of downtime and huge costs they might be more apt to do the right thing or at the least coordinate manufacturer recommended maintenance with their preventative maintenance contractor.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

I have more information on this project having spoken to the other guys involved. 

Two weeks prior to this I connected a PQ datalogger to the gear for a 2 week analysis as per customer request. We are working on a few projects on the campus (four buildings total) and they asked that I stop in 3 times a week at various times to check the meter, write down the time I was in and the current draw, and give it to the head of maintenance. Kind of odd but OK no problem. I was then asked to get there early in the morning to pull the meter because they had scheduled a shutdown for some PM and cleaning on the gear (they are closed between xmas and new year's so the shutdown does not effect production). OK, no problem.

Turns out they want to add a new robot in this part of the facility, and wanted a PQ report to verify clean power and maximum and rms current being utilized. The reason for the shutdown was all in all to replace a breaker that was previously tested and had been ordered. While the breaker was being replaced they requested a visual inspection and "blow and go" (Zog was correct ).

The customer ordered the POCO shutdown before allowing us in the gear. 

Now, a little background on the customer. They are a long time multi-national company that has been a customer going on 10 years. In the time I have been working for my employer I know that whatever they request they get. Many times we have tried to save them $$ but whatever order comes from Germany is what gets done. 

The stories we have heard and always hear from the Head of maintenance, maintenance supervisors and staff are entertaining to say the least, even they don't understand why things get done the way they do. 

I can not argue with anyone who says that the customer is wasting time and money, but that is out of my control.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

I feel bad I don't know how to do ghis suff. I was told you clean the bus with alcohol based cleaner that evaporates. What do you use to test the breakers?


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

blueheels2 said:


> I feel bad I don't know how to do ghis suff. I was told you clean the bus with alcohol based cleaner that evaporates. What do you use to test the breakers?


Well this stuff every job new or old gets tested all breakers if its a MV fused switch we clean and lube the mechanic parts and the blades with conductive grease . Plus they set all the electronic breakers up with that small tester on the floor . The test will tell you if the breaker is working meaning the factory settings the pass or fail of that breaker most of the time on a new project we send back 5 or 6 breakers with issues like one phase has a different contact resistance when it makes meaning full on or a breaker has one phase slow or fast from the other phases when tripped. The big tester is a current test set it will inject current into a breaker at 1 amp or 4000amps . 
It has a micro second timer during the test the trip is timed at each amp setting a record of that breaker is made theres three test made on each breaker this could take hours on each breaker it all depends on the type and most of them are taken out of the switchboards to test . But you cant test your own work on a new project it must be done by another outfit which we sub out that work . All test results are submitted to engineer for review .


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## tim123 (Feb 15, 2009)

zwodubber said:


>


I only get into larger gear like this maybe twice a year, I was wondering how common it is for you to see unistrut added to the gear for what I assume is to keep the wiring off of any potentially sharp edges? Also those of you that have done something like this what do your inspectors think of this practice?


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

tim123 said:


> I only get into larger gear like this maybe twice a year, I was wondering how common it is for you to see unistrut added to the gear for what I assume is to keep the wiring off of any potentially sharp edges? Also those of you that have done something like this what do your inspectors think of this practice?


Well since no one answered your question here is some advice dont do it .
Why because your designing your way into a major issue if that gear fails .
meaning when she blows up and the factory comes out .
Your company pays the bill . UL listing by the manufacturer and that goes for anything you didnt design it you dont add parts to it.

Bottom line you never ever install anything in gear that the factory didnt put inside.
The electrical inspector will fail you if your inspector is doing his job he may ask for a letter from the factory to keep his part out of the picture . Theres a frame inside the gear if you order you wire the correct length and dress it the way it should be you dont need beeline . What i see in your photo is the wire was short and the electrician could not do anything else but try and make it reach.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

In the bottom photo, is that CH gear? Aluminum conductors to breakers?


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

123electric said:


> In the bottom photo, is that CH gear? Aluminum conductors to breakers?


Yes its Cutler Hammer the top is GE junk personally i dont like one or the other there junk .


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## sp electric (May 9, 2013)

We have just started getting into cleaning switchgear. What type of meter do find works best and is most accurate for testing the circuit breakers?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sp electric said:


> We have just started getting into cleaning switchgear. What type of meter do find works best and is most accurate for testing the circuit breakers?


 
Testing circuit breakers you need at a minimum
A high current test set -google AVO or Phenix
A Megger-Insulation Resistance Tester
A DLRO/Ductor/Micro-ohm meter

Accurate comes with yearly calibration

This will set you back about 50,000.00

Training, just owning test equipment is not sufficient, most firms that try to be serious about this will hire electricians with a back ground in testing to operate this division.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

*weight of transformer corners*

You can take as long as you like happy 4th sorry wrong thread.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

piperunner said:


> You can take as long as you like happy 4th sorry wrong thread.


BUT many firms take this week, to shut down vacation for factory workers and the facility folks and sub contractors are worked hard.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Brian,
By the work that you have talked about, sounds like you are a NETA contractor?


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

brian john said:


> BUT many firms take this week, to shut down vacation for factory workers and the facility folks and sub contractors are worked hard.


This was performed during a weeklong factory shutdown which is done every year from Christmas to New Years as a vacation for workers (and higher ups) just as Brian stated. Did a building each day after POCO shut them down.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well wrong post


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

SteveBayshore said:


> Brian,
> By the work that you have talked about, sounds like you are a NETA contractor?


I was NETA a long time ago, not now.


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