# Wiring in restaurant kitchens



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

What wiring is allowed to be exposed in kitchen areas? Is there any health codes that might prohibit EMT run on that wash-wall stuff?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Minerallac stand-off straps are mandatory.

Ditto RT ( water tight ) compression fittings.

Here we're assuming commercial kitchens// reefers// freezers -- wired so many.

Also keep in mind Woodhead drop cords -- as specified.

http://www.woodheadsales.com/portable_outlet_boxes/multi-boxes_pendant_drops.htm

Woodhead (Molex) has a HUGE selection of 'trick' wet-zone drops, many on reels.

Even more expensive// exotic materials and devices exist for major commercial kitchens and food factories. Those are normally specified by the contract.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I would thank your post, but the ads are in the way.

So as long as you use stand offs and RT fittings, everything's cool? What about exposed covers and all?

Btw, thanks for the link to the kitchen cords, I'll need them.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Rather than beat this to death in cyberspace -- get yourself on over to an existing grocery store -- and poke around.

MOST store employees will let you take snap shots, etc.

You need just tell them that you're building a clone// another store for the same firm down the highway and need to see the proper style// standards.

You need to be prepared for the correct light fixtures, too.

If this really is your very first attempt - don't go solo. Hire on an experienced hand.

There are no end of gotcha's involved.

Everything is going to take a LOT longer than you first imagine.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Look over the counter @ most McD's , you'll see P&S drops>








source

Might be cheaper than Woodheads, just remember double for hubbell ...

>>1/4" standoff for wet locations



> *There are no end of gotcha's involved.*


>>lights for food service have covers AND may need to be of K factor that does not make meat look redder....(the food gestapo will have a cow)

>>all gfci ,so park the big freezers out of what is definitionally kitchen (criterior> cook,sink, food prep) and/or go other than 120V

>>ansul shuts air intake off, not exhaust

bon appetite :thumbsup:~CS~:thumbsup:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Tesla - restaurants & fast foods are not something I have experience on from the ground up. 

Looking over these prints, I'm seeing several things I've never seen before...EC to provide all cord & plug for ALL kitchen equipment!? EC to provide heat lamp fixtures based on the customers choice!!!???

They've got a walk in freezer going in, but no specs. About 3 times as much equipment as was originally talked about. And according to the prints, just about everything requires a dedicated circuit.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MHElectric said:


> Tesla - restaurants & fast foods are not something I have experience on from the ground up.
> 
> Looking over these prints, I'm seeing several things I've never seen before...EC to provide all cord & plug for ALL kitchen equipment!? EC to provide heat lamp fixtures based on the customers choice!!!???
> 
> They've got a walk in freezer going in, but no specs. About 3 times as much equipment as was originally talked about.* And according to the prints, just about everything requires a dedicated circuit.*




WRT the last: TYPICAL.

When a kitchen is fired up -- everything is raging at the same time.

Real world example: Proto-type Quiznos 

( The very first of a totally new generation -- how lucky I was -- NOT.)

1) Soup heaters -- four 'pots' -- each required a 20A dedicated circuit. 

They'd all be flipped on at the exact same time when the store opened.

This one raceway was a PITA.

2) EVERY significant electrical load was different than the old stores -- amps and volts. So MC was out of the question. EMT drops had to be used.

So the circuit rose out of the panel in EMT, converted to MC, then back to EMT when it hit the demising wall -- furred out from the concrete.

Going all the way in EMT would've been too expensive. 

(Lots of overhead transitions, up-down, left-right.)

3) GC was totally uncooperative. Did many acts that in retrospect must have been out of spite. You'll run into such critters.

4) The bit about cord caps and plugs is over the top. What's going to really happen is that you'll end up reworking virtually every cord-cap so that they mate with the proper NEMA receptacle -- typically a twist-lock -- the only way to avoid GFCI at every turn.

This proviso is typical because a slew of the equipment will come from Europe or Asia -- no telling which -- and it will have IEC style cord caps.

You may well run into the need to provide Pin & Sleeve cord caps and receptacles. Check the fine print.

You may well find that Woodhead drops are specified.

So you need to work up a schedule -- and spit out a submittal.

It's better to argue in paper design than later.

To repeat -- you absolutely need to see a clone build... 

( I had no clone to inspect on this planet.)

And you need to hire on a seasoned hand. 

He'll waltz through the work at four times the speed of a green man.

Expect the prints to be MASSIVELY in error -- yet remain uncorrected for years on end.

'Cause no-one is paying to fix them.


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## TRurak (Apr 10, 2016)

Tesla knows the deal. I wired a kitchen a few years ago with 2 hoods on 2 separate sides on the kitchen. The plans changed twice in the middle of the job. It was lots of fun


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Put everything in the ground you can, if it's free standing from the ground up.
blow stings ASAP when in. 4-11/16 boxes are your friend. Don't hesitate to
use an extension ring in a few choice spots. With any 240V circuits run 1" PVC
Think about coming into a few spaces one bay over with a 90* elbow,
to desired box location. Usually space jammed with multi plumbing.

Review both the plumbers drain trunks (depth), and HVAC runs(usually same elevation to bottom of duct). 
Both will slide on you, or inspector if allowed to.
There is no set countertop height most are now all roll around SS tables and equipment, know the cut sheets, demand them on kitchen equipment.

Most newer chains/restaurants have gone to stainless steel cabinets.
Pay attention of duct bank into building-elbowed
in or outside fused disconnect, and determine elevation to side of building, I doubt they will let you come under the building. 
Apron around back entrance is small and tight to all the various services. Pipe out to Drive window, power, intercom, 
camera, and parking light power out of parking lot, Stereo on patio, camera, intercom? 

Be on top of getting roof penetrations in, it's usually a one shot for them
to show up complete roof mate and trim out parapet later.
Usually two pipes for Large HVAC roof units, some designs have Disconnects inside unit.

Study all cut sheets, drive through windows has power inside them, every
type of circuit also comes to it.

When finished rough take pictures of kitchen the wash board installers always
cover up a few receptacles. Be sure to set boxes to incorporate wash board.

Loudspeakers, music, FA, Wi-Fi, security (door contactors) camera's all need
locations of circuit(s) and review of spec's, and what your responsible for.

NC health law - 50 candles watts/foot in Kitchen/prep area, you should qualify that engineer made that with layout. W/ a Panara I helped with on they didn't make spec's....

Enjoy


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I appreciate your guys input here. 

It's a remodel. Lots of dedicated circuits already there, but they are changing the kitchen layout completely.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Have fun . All we do is food service . The health department here mesures lighting lumens for operation and clean up . Smooth and washable is a phrase you need to know . We get away with pipe on wall but we try too keep everything in the walls . Hoods are simple but confusing at first . 

They are wet , greasy , and hoods get pressure washed monthly . Make up air and exhaust must be min 10 feet seperation on the roof . Nothing and I mean nothing will be like you planed so use pipe . That single phase condenser you specd will turn into 3 phase and vise versa . 

Walk in freezers have defrost timers going back to the fans from the roof . All in one ice makers get really hot . So do perlick pumps . Soda machines have carbonaters that need to be dedicated and some have ice makers on top . The pos system needs to be its own entity . Right now i am doing an Ipour system and these are not fun . 

What chain is it or is it mom and pop . If its a chain I know what they want but I dont know the codes in you're neck of the woods . Local codes always through that monkey wrench . 

Good luck I do this all day long for the last ten years so I kinda got it down.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

CADPoint said:


> Put everything in the ground you can, if it's free standing from the ground up.
> blow stings ASAP when in. 4-11/16 boxes are your friend. Don't hesitate to
> use an extension ring in a few choice spots. With any 240V circuits run 1" PVC
> Think about coming into a few spaces one bay over with a 90* elbow,
> to desired box location. Usually space jammed with multi plumbing.



A _'free standing'_ kitchen island >










~CS~


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

It seems that no matter where kitchens are, the prints and equipment schedules are never correct. 
Keep track of the changes, specially the delay in getting the answers to your questions. I like to include number of days to be added to a contract , when I submit my price for Change Notices.
The GC, owner everybody will be looking to throw someone under the bus for a delay in opening. And electrical is usually the first trade they go after.
Conduit is the only way to go, and oversize the runs. Guaranteed, the changes that will come, will more than pay for the extra material cost.
Separate neutrals for the lighting, and with the increase in LED and dimming, check to see how the drivers are being dimmed (line or 0-10)
Dishwashers are great for not including the booster circuit.
And use 4x4 deep boxes for everything. When they change the direct connect equipment to receptacles, you'll understand


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks guys!

Too many lurkers on here for me to say what it is -- the shadows have eyes. :detective:

It's an existing kitchen being changed. The rest of the place is just lights & plugs. I appreciate all the suggestions, this helps! :thumbup:


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

We have a rule no pictures , no talking about projects . Some big chains want the suprise factor .


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Cat spark,

Very helpful post, I appreciate it. :thumbsup:

There's boat loads of guys who never post or don't register and just lurk. TONS OF EM'. Needless to say it's a small world, so I'm keeping I things quiet as well.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Find out who at your supply house is the restaurant guy. Usually there's at least one counter guy or sales rep that has done a lot of food stuff. That can help a newbie out.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

National chain or mom or pop, and especially if a national chain locally owner it just doesn't matter.

Watch for the equipment swap, “Oh, I found this equipment for this application”.
The size is bigger and equipment circuiting is oppose hand. Perni bread heater is true 3 Phase 208V.

The owner has to submit to both the electrical and the health department. As my engineer friend
states, “My drawings are usually used as a right to build, what they build is usually/always subject to inspection. 
This drawing is used to be a base line of what they are going to do, what happens is well questionable.”

I really like the way the previous poster stated RFI can be billable, they didn't say it that way, but in 
all respect CYA and be ready to bill for changes based on odd situations that you will encounter.

Electrical devices behind prefabbed counters, your device box become a whip to get power to something above and
beyond what was show on drawing, This might be the supply a whip...

Watch out for portable ovens double stack, don't limit layout to 18” height go to 48” even 60” inches. 

Drains, heated water GPM, multiply hand sinks, the exact size of the three sink basin, your going to 
learn more about health Codes then you ever thought you need too...


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## Ragin Cajun (Nov 20, 2013)

Have done drawings for numerous Ryans, McD, and others. Snake pits.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TRurak said:


> Tesla knows the deal. I wired a kitchen a few years ago with 2 hoods on 2 separate sides on the kitchen. The plans changed twice in the middle of the job. It was lots of fun


Isn't that always the way? You have to love the three change ups on appliances too, just because they got better package prices from different suppliers.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Oh yeah, in fact we just run a load of 3/4" from a troffer on out ,and wait for appliances to arrive....~CS~


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Every restaurant I ever wired I just ran as many 3/4 hole and stub ups to the grid ceiling as I could fit onto the top of the panels after making allowance for any required 1'' pipes or larger if required. Those always got used up magically for some reason or another. Charge large for everything not on the prints. Make sure to put that into the contract- not showing it cost more period or you will get screwed every time. Nobody mentioned electrical boxes getting buried behind the marlite wall coverings in the kitchens yet- that makes it superbly difficult to locate them- instead of searching for a lump in the wall you are looking for soft spots in the paneling. To combat that I used to put 6-32 screws into all the boxes set in the wall right after the drywaller's were done, before the GC started installing the wall coverings, and learned how to take boatloads of pictures of my rough ins. Then there is the fast food places that had energy management systems that linked to the mainland office- those required lots of added contactors and control wiring not really laid out so well for you on the prints. I haven't done a restaurant in a long time, but I haven't purposely shot myself in the foot for a long time either.................


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