# Ground/Bond Multiple Services etc...



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

For that much info I suggest this

You would need to know the service conductor sizes to answer the bonding jumper size questions.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*sizing*

It appeared #2 Al for the 100amp single phase service, looked like 2-3/0's for the 3 phase 240 delta, and I think 4-250's or 350's for the 800 I think. 

I only saw 2 ground rods on the 120/240 and the 277/480. Never could find one for the old 240 3 phase delta.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

BBQ said:


> For that much info I suggest this
> 
> You would need to know the service conductor sizes to answer the bonding jumper size questions.


BBQ, How do you make that link up there that says "This" ? (without copying and pasting the NEC page)


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Tricky part*

The tricky part is how do you tie in the PV, Generator (no neutral), 240 straight delta (no neutral) ??

I'm reading this for now...http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2005/07/grounding-separately-derived-systems/

This pic helps a little


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*here*



dronai said:


> BBQ, How do you make that link up there that says "This" ? (without copying and pasting the NEC page)


<a href="http://www.hyperlinkcode.com">Hyperlink Code</a> 


<a href="http://http://www.amazon.com/National-Electrical-Code-Protection-Association/dp/0877659141/ref=pd_sim_b1?tag=vglnk-c1204-20">here</a>


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

dronai said:


> BBQ, How do you make that link up there that says "This" ? (without copying and pasting the NEC page)


In order for you to see it I turned off the UBB code

[url=http://www.amazon.com/National-Electrical-Code-Protection-Association/dp/0877659141/ref=pd_sim_b1]this[/url]

Notice that you type "[url=" and then paste in the link, now add "]" to the end of the link. At this point you type in the words you want to see and then finally end it all with "[/url]"


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Code*

The more I read the more messy this is becoming. The 240 straight delta has a step up transformer to 480 (remember no grounded conductor) and the obviously the 277/480 has a step down to 120/208 (200 amp) for office stuff. 

the thing that really throws me off is the 240 - 3 phase no grounded conductor system and the generator/pv system. and there is no metal water pipe in building. It was replaced with plastic the manager said.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> The more I read the more messy this is becoming.


You have a 3 and a 5 gallon water container, each container has no markings except for that which gives you it's total volume. You also have a running tap. You must use the containers and the tap in such away as to exactly measure out 4 gallons of water. How is this done?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Cletis, go to Mike Holt, and go to Grounding, and Bonding. There is a book available


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Books*

i ready own Tom Henry Grounding/Bonding and Soares and the more I read the more confusing it gets. I could see how people only specialize in this 1 field. 

Should the system described above even be bonded/grounded together assuming conditions?


I'm probably wrong but i'd size a tube to match the flow of the 3 to faucet and a tube to match volume of flow from 5 to faucet (different sizes) Then size a tube from faucet to handle the total of 3 + 5 ??


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

dronai said:


> BBQ, How do you make that link up there that says "This" ? (without copying and pasting the NEC page)


 Basically Highlight the word and then use the insert link







- then paste the address in the dialog box


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Basically Highlight the word and then use the insert link
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For Cletis 

Test


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*path*

better work on that path some more..:whistling2:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Cletis said:


> better work on that path some more..:whistling2:


Try the test one :thumbsup:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*GB*

I haven't even see that one yet. But, even with the Tom Henry and Soarse's one I can't find out quite how to tie in above situation quite yet. I keep getting referred back and forth. May take a while...


In 1 book I see I'm supposed to run a gec to the ground rod set at transformer of a 240-480 step up transformer (not grounded system) and the other book says I don't need to set a ground rod there??


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*more confusing...neutral?*

Worried this may create parallel ground path through neutral and harmonic currents from PV into other systems.

With the step-down transformer with a grounded-wye secondary on the 277/480 I am required to provide a equipment grounding conductor and grounding electrode conductor at the transformer neutral I think. Is there an NEC article that requires that I also install a grounded conductor (neutral)? 230.42(C) ? Here is my dilemma: a PV system with grounded-wye transformer is connected to a service-derived grounded-wye system with phase-neutral load. The PV has *no neutral* installed at their transformer. However, when operating in *parallel*, the PV system could supply *unbalanced loads* in the *distribution system*, leading to *"neutral" current flow on the EGC* because of the multiple neutral-ground bonds. 705.95 is of no help. *Is a neutral required?* Is a neutral-ground bond required? The secondary of the PV system is an alternate power source, not a separately derived source. Based on this I should not bond the transformer neutral (if used) to ground. But what if a transformer neutral is not installed? If the manufacturer says that all PV inverter output is balanced so there is never any neutral current and it complies with 705.100(B). In this case, where no neutral is required, do I ground the wye point? It is not a bond because there is no neutral. In which case any triple harmonics will flow on to the ground. 

Thoughts?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Is a neutral and it complies with ground. But what requires the multiple neutral" current ground bonds. 705.95 is balanced so there an alternate parallel grounded-wye systems.

With 705.100(B). In their transformer. However, when operating in the distribution system, leading connected the EGC because the 277/480 I am requipment flow on the 277/480 I am requires the grounded-wye transformer neutral installed at there is not installel, there any neutral load. The seconductor any neutral-grounded-wye


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*huh*




Should I bond the transformers neutral to ground or not?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> huh



If Jack helped you off the horse would you help jack off the horse?


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