# how to succeed in an apprenticeship?



## TokenFemale

hi guys, i recently got a union apprenticeship; i had no idea what i was getting into coming into this but i'm realizing that i kind of like it and i at least want to stick around at least long enough to get licensed.

as you can see from my username i am one of the Token Females at my local.

i am trying to figure out what skills are needed to succeed on the job? my background includes working in dysfunctional male-dominated environments and upper-level math work. i have no experience with mechanical things which is really tripping me up but i'm happy to learn.

what can i look forward to over the years and what are some things i can teach myself over layoffs that might make me more useful to employers? i was reading somewhere that drafting and plc stuff is good to know but then i also hear that's engineer work. unfortunately i don't think i'll prove much an asset on cable pulls.


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## telsa

PLCs are installed and booted up by electricians... fixed, too.

Drafting comes in very handy if you're an EC.

Dysfunctional males put man on the moon... and much else. 

Electrical math tops out with imaginary numbers, trig, and second year algebra... for the most part.

You'll just love ladder diagrams.

Poke around ET for prior threads. There is much to ponder.


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## cabletie

Drafting is obsolete. Modeling is where it's at, in a word BIM. Any A&E or detailer that has not moved on to BIM is going to disappear with the hand drafters. 

The A&E come up with the design intent. The contractors along with their detailers/modelers get it all to fit. Most of the jobs my employer does require 3D spatial coordination between the trades. Almost all of the detailers come from the trades. Some contractors that are not staffed with detailers, sub the work out to companies that will work with them. It is hit or miss if they are up to the task. Nothing beats a tradesmen that can also detail.


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## cabletie

Forgot, welcome to the forum.


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## TokenFemale

cabletie said:


> The A&E come up with the design intent. The contractors along with their detailers/modelers get it all to fit. Most of the jobs my employer does require 3D spatial coordination between the trades. Almost all of the detailers come from the trades. Some contractors that are not staffed with detailers, sub the work out to companies that will work with them. It is hit or miss if they are up to the task. Nothing beats a tradesmen that can also detail.


Sorry, would you mind explaining what you're going about? What is A&E and do I need some kind of educational certificate to do all of this or can I just learn it on my own?

Was thinking about enrolling in some classes as the NJATC training scheme seems geared for the boys but I don't know where to invest my money.

Just a general question: much as I despise academia I seem to have some talent for that sort of thing whereas I'm all thumbs on the field. This is really bad but I realized about 3 weeks into it that my ADD was hella bad and I wasn't learning anything; didn't help that my journeyman was treating me like a "lady" and doing all the work for me UGH. I'm coming from a background of beyond mindless customer service jobs and while I'm beyond ecstatic to finally have something to sink my teeth into, I'm just not used to learning while working, or learning at all for that matter. The most intellectually challenging thing I did on my last two jobs was argue with my manager over how frequently I changed the trash I'm not ****ing kidding I was about ready to kill myself.

Imagine you'd been treated like a literal moron all your adult life and then someone gave you an aptitude test and decided you were smart and demanded that you perform: this is what I'm dealing with rn.


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## PlugsAndLights

Where to start............
To do electrical well you have to have a decent understanding of electrical 
principals. None the less, the majority of an electricians day is spent with 
basic physical questions like: how do I get a wire from here to there? and, 
how do I mount this box to that surface and make it look ok? Understanding 
how your decisions affect other trades and vice versa, comes with time. 
So, practice doing the basic physical stuff AND spend some time inside and
outside of work to think about how the overall system works. 
BTW, one way to get a little additional respect is to learn the code and know 
it better than most of your co-workers. 
Good Luck and welcome to the forum. 
P&L


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## MattM-NC

telsa said:


> Dysfunctional males put man on the moon...


Did they put women on the moon?


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## MechanicalDVR

Welcome aboard! PLCs is a great place to start reading up on and understanding. If I were you I'd read the actual electrical posts here and try to stay ahead of anything you are being taught in class.


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## MechanicalDVR

MattM-NC said:


> Did they put women on the moon?


They have been put in space but no moon time, it's safer that way.


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## telsa

To the OP: PLCs may be your cup of tea.

Also: motor controls & VFDs.

Also: robotics.

You can buy an Arduino for peanuts over the Internet. They make great self-teaching aids -- because so many guys have up-loaded FREE videos detailing their own projects. 

Many of the principles used in industrial PLCs are embedded within the Ardino.












udemy.com

If you respond to their ad... they're pitching their stuff at $49 versus full list price.


In contrast, the PLC crowd that knows its stuff only offers 'teasers' for free. They expect you to pony up serious cash to obtain their videos. For someone starting from scratch, I can't recommend spending any serious money. 

You'll find a TON of PLC related posts in the archives of the ET.

Get your feet wet first -- on the cheap: $ 00.00 :thumbsup:


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## cabletie

Tokenfemale, my response was to the fact that all the drafting is not only done by the architects and engineers (A&E). Even before all this Building Information Modeling (BIM) came along, contractors still needed a little drafting. Usually before the A&E signs off on the gear submittals, they usually want to see a drawing on how the room lays out. Their placeholder gear may be much smaller than the gear being proposed. That don't want to hear later, when the room is to small, "well you approved it. You should have known it wasn't going to fit."

Now in today's world, it's more intense what's in the job specs as far as drafting/modeling. In a BIM world there are five "levels of design" (LOD). The A&E are responsible for the first three. They always were. On a drawing you will see them in the title block. They will say 25,50 and 100%CD. At 100%CD (construction document) the job is ready for bidding and construction. 

The contractor is responsible for the last two LOD. They are the shop drawings and the as builts. The owner and the A&E decide what software or file type they are to be done in. 

Your hall may or may not have classes in this type of work. Our hall doesn't, but the halls north of me do. Ours will have it after the new training center is built. If you have an interest in this type of work, PM me when you have enough posts to be able to send a private message, and I can tell you how you can get some software legally, for free, to learn on.


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## macmikeman

Just learn how to use one of these









properly. The union needs those who can bend and install conduit . They need other fancier learned positions filled also, but that can come later. These guys here are telling you about things you are not going to be doing much of for the first 7 years. You are going on construction jobs in building to bend and install conduit, and then pull wire thru it, and then connect the wires. And be part of a crew of mostly males, so you need to not let them know how dysfunctional they are since the little dears get hurt in the ***** fairly easy. Study conduit bending. Become the pro at it. Make your mark in the crew as a real left handed bender* person*.


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## Jamato

Welcome to the forum!! 

Fire Alarm!!

Also, don't sell yourself short on the physical work.


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## MattM-NC

Hey Tokenfemale, keep at it. In my experience on different construction crews my whole life, how well a person or a crew works doesn't have anything to do with gender, any more than it does about race or age. Even with very 'physical' work. I've worked with a few women in a construction setting (not yet electrical), and they happened to be excellent workers, and provided a lighter more social atmosphere. There's something nice about a gender balance at a work space. (Though there are a couple awesome all male crews from my past that I'd kill to have back together again.)

Regarding strength,
While I am a guy, I'm not a very big or strong person. I'm 135 lbs soaking wet. My boss that' I've worked with for a couple years now is much bigger and stronger, and he just muscles through a lot of problems, i.e., trying to get wires through conduit, handling large ladders, or getting pipe to line up while getting a strap around it, etc. I learned after the first year or so that sometimes I need to find other ways to solve problems, because I just don't always have the strength to do things his way. Since then I've religiously followed two mantras:, 
1:"work smarter not harder" and 2: "ask for help or die alone" 

Everyone's got their strengths, so if you enjoy the work, go for it. You'll make your way.

And you WILL learn how to do it. Just keep doing it and you'll get better at it and it will get a lot more fun.


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## wildleg

it is a well known fact that on the average, females generally pay more attention to detail. If you really are one of the lucky females to have good math skills (that's a 50/50 wager), then you are well suited to the trade.

The grunt work skills can be overcome with machinery (mostly), but some muscle building will be required (eat more meat). It just goes with the territory.

If you like the work, you will naturally gravitate towards the more technical portions of the trade, or management, or both. If you have the skills to avoid male BS, which you claim, then you are well suited, and just need to put your little nose to the grindstone for several years, soaking up all the required knowledge and basic jobbing skills so that you can become productive in whatever specialty you fall into.

good luck


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## brian john

YOU REALLY WANT TO GET ALONG ?


Drop the attitude about the token female crap and become on of the workers.

Accept the fact that you are blazing a trail for future women and if you have an attitude that makes fellow workers think you are PIA not only will your career be difficult you may complicate it for future women.


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## John Valdes

OP. I do understand how hard it is being a female in this mainly male trade of ours.
Its difficult at first even for us.
I questioned my decision to be in this trade for several years before I realized I had spent 90% of my working years in this trade.
I will never for get my first day on the job and the electrician opened a diesel electric locomotive panel.
I took one look inside that thing and proclaimed I would never ever be able to figure all this **** out.

The electrician talked to me over lunch and encouraged me to continue to keep at it. That even when you feel you are not learning anything, most likely you are learning something.
He also told me one day a light would go off in my head and everything I thought I was not learning would come to life and be understood. I was able to piece together the 3 years of training with an understanding.
That was the day I actually started to really learn. To build on what I knew.

Don't give up and don't sell yourself short. We all have things we may not be great at and things we excel at.
Your job is to find out what those things are. Before you truly get your answers, you may have to look back over many years.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.
The guys and girls here are great and they can help with most any question.

ps.....Physical ability in the beginning seems like a requirement and that may be the case. But smart people in this trade have left many of those duties to others as they progressed through the ranks.


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## TGGT

TokenFemale said:


> Sorry, would you mind explaining what you're going about? What is A&E and do I need some kind of educational certificate to do all of this or can I just learn it on my own?
> 
> Was thinking about enrolling in some classes as the NJATC training scheme seems geared for the boys but I don't know where to invest my money.
> 
> Just a general question: much as I despise academia I seem to have some talent for that sort of thing whereas I'm all thumbs on the field. This is really bad but I realized about 3 weeks into it that my ADD was hella bad and I wasn't learning anything; didn't help that my journeyman was treating me like a "lady" and doing all the work for me UGH. I'm coming from a background of beyond mindless customer service jobs and while I'm beyond ecstatic to finally have something to sink my teeth into, I'm just not used to learning while working, or learning at all for that matter. The most intellectually challenging thing I did on my last two jobs was argue with my manager over how frequently I changed the trash I'm not ****ing kidding I was about ready to kill myself.
> 
> Imagine you'd been treated like a literal moron all your adult life and then someone gave you an aptitude test and decided you were smart and demanded that you perform: this is what I'm dealing with rn.


What do you mean the training scheme is "geared towards boys"?


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## Jamato

TokenFemale said:


> Was thinking about enrolling in some classes as the NJATC training scheme seems geared for the boys but I don't know where to invest my money.


Yeah, What does that mean, "geared for the boys"?



> Just a general question: much as I despise academia I seem to have some talent for that sort of thing whereas I'm all thumbs on the field. This is really bad but I realized about 3 weeks into it that my ADD was hella bad and I wasn't learning anything; didn't help that my journeyman was treating me like a "lady" and doing all the work for me UGH. I'm coming from a background of beyond mindless customer service jobs and while I'm beyond ecstatic to finally have something to sink my teeth into, I'm just not used to learning while working, or learning at all for that matter. The most intellectually challenging thing I did on my last two jobs was argue with my manager over how frequently I changed the trash I'm not ****ing kidding I was about ready to kill myself.


 All thumbs in the field isn't going to fly. :no: Do not sell yourself short! A lot of guys are "all thumbs" when they start out. As daunting as the physical things can seem, skills in the field AND in the books (Oh yeah, learn the NEC like its your job, cause it is) are imperative to your success as an electrician... Your journeyman wasn't treating you like a lady, he was treating you like you didn't know what you were doing.  My guess is that he also wasn't a fan of you letting him do all the work... My advice to you is, drop the "token female" crap, put on your big girl panties, go out there and show them you deserve to be out there with the boys. Make it so your boss doesn't want to lay you off! :whistling2:


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## Jamato

Also, Where in New England are you? I'm in CT


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## Signal1

Jamato said:


> Yeah, What does that mean, "geared for the boys"?
> 
> 
> All thumbs in the field isn't going to fly. :no: Do not sell yourself short! A lot of guys are "all thumbs" when they start out. As daunting as the physical things can seem, skills in the field AND in the books (Oh yeah, learn the NEC like its your job, cause it is) are imperative to your success as an electrician... Your journeyman wasn't treating you like a lady, he was treating you like you didn't know what you were doing.  My guess is that he also wasn't a fan of you letting him do all the work... My advice to you is, drop the "token female" crap, put on your big girl panties, go out there and show them you deserve to be out there with the boys. Make it so your boss doesn't want to lay you off! :whistling2:


Well said Jamato.


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## chicken steve

I can recall a circle of FF's taking off their scot gear after an interior attack , only to reveal a _woman_ , this was quite some time ago when most dept's would _laugh_ at a woman trying to join.

None the less, she had _done the job_, right along with the rest of us.....but oh, the look on some of the old timers faces>>>><<<< priceless!!

Methinks we should find a way to mask our gender in the trades too.....:shifty:~CS~:thumbsup:


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## brian john

chicken steve said:


> I can recall a circle of FF's taking off their scot gear after an interior attack , only to reveal a _woman_ , this was quite some time ago when most dept's would _laugh_ at a woman trying to join.
> 
> None the less, she had _done the job_, right along with the rest of us.....but oh, the look on some of the old timers faces>>>><<<< priceless!!
> 
> Methinks we should find a way to mask our gender in the trades too.....:shifty:~CS~:thumbsup:


 
There is no doubt their are some A-holes that will complicate a woman entering into the trades, but I HOPE this is passing as we get new young bloods in and any old timers will see that a woman can work right along side with the best of em.


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## chicken steve

Well we're _old school_ Brian , think about it.....

We've been raised to open doors , pull out seats, restrain bad manners, etc for the _ladies_

Doesn't make us Aholes (well, i guess that depends who we ask) , it simply makes us influenced by our cultural upbringing

In fairness, the same affliction applies to the other 1/2 , who would badger , lament, and disparage their sisters for pursing that which they see breaking social limitations.....






~CS~


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## brian john

chicken steve said:


> Well we're _old school_ Brian , think about it.....
> 
> *We've been raised to open doors , pull out seats, restrain bad manners, etc for the ladies*
> 
> Doesn't make us Aholes (well, i guess that depends who we ask) , it simply makes us influenced by our cultural upbringing
> 
> ~CS~



I once held a door for a woman, she gave me a look and said " I do not need you or any man to hold the door for me". I simply said " I hold the door for men, women, handicapped, children or anyone I like". 


I should have added B**CH


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## TokenFemale

hey guys, checking in, i'm really floored by the overwhelming number of helpful, on point responses I've received here. thanks so much! i'll have to be sure to contribute here more often just to stay engaged with the trade community as i'm on a long winter layoff for who knows how long. it's possible the hall is mad at me **gulp** a bit of a frosty reception last time i attended class; walked in on the director gossiping about me; that's never good.



wildleg said:


> it is a well known fact that on the average, females generally pay more attention to detail. If you really are one of the lucky females to have good math skills (that's a 50/50 wager), then you are well suited to the trade.


I have really good math ability but terrible attention to detail (inattentive type ADD means it's all or nothing for me). it's hard to see how my gender is implicated in this; it's possible I'm an extreme outlier as I've always struggled to relate to other women.

makes for some weird dynamics on the field as a lot of these guys don't deviate too much from the norm but I guess they don't meet girls like me.

I agree that the trade is likely a good fit for me; this is why I won't give up, despite initial setbacks.



brian john said:


> Accept the fact that you are blazing a trail for future women and if you have an attitude that makes fellow workers think you are PIA not only will your career be difficult you may complicate it for future women.


I really just want a more challenging, technical job and apprenticeship fits my needs better than the traditional "go to college, farm yourself out to employers" route.

when i arrived the first day of class and realized just how out of whack the gender ratio was i had to get really, really drunk. i really hate all the attention and pressure and would really rather just get on with things in relative anonymnity.


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## TokenFemale

Jamato said:


> Your journeyman wasn't treating you like a lady, he was treating you like you didn't know what you were doing.  My guess is that he also wasn't a fan of you letting him do all the work...


this is a possible explanation, but there were simple tasks he could have let me do and didn't.
i also caught him hitting on me which is :001_huh:
it's easy to shift the blame tho, right, apparently i can't follow directions without ritalin.
you guys think i'm making too much of this gender stuff but it's a neverending headache.



> Yeah, What does that mean, "geared for the boys"?


it seems like for the first couple of years until you learn stuff you're more or less a laborer, this works less well if you're me.


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## icdubois

Well during the first few years as a laborer as you put it, think of ways to do the work smarter not harder. 

Like when pulling wire for example, use pipe and bender handles and extra leverage/grip points. If possible use some sort of pulley and set it up so your pulling straight down while the wire is coming straight up. That way you can use your whole body behind each pull. 
Get help if you need to move pipe as it can get heavy, I'm sure that they would rather see you ask for help than take multiple trips to and from the pipe rack. 

Learn how to dig properly and always have a good sharp shovel on hand (ask tesla about his digging techniques). 

When bending big pipe don't be afraid to move close to a wall and use it to steady yourself also put the end of the pipe against the so it won't be moving all over the place on you. 

When making up boxes with tan wire nuts use your 5/16 nut driver to get some extra torque when tightening them. 

The biggest thing I can think of to pass on to a young green apprentice is keep your mouth shut and ears open. Learn with your ears. Ask questions about anything you don't understand, or why it's done a certain way, but don't go off on your life story and drama. 

Don't complain or get an attitude when asked to do a crappy job, we've all been there before and we will all be back. Granted if it seams like they are picking you for all the crappy jobs with no break in sight say something. To the like off I feel like I've got this down pretty good is there some thing else that I can learn today, but of course you need to word this with kid gloves, don't want to be the one that's always complaining or have it received that way. 

This happened to an apprentice who is a year lower than me on the last site he was on. He called in because his arms were tired from pulling branch circuit wire all day. He got ran off that site the next day he showed up. If that happens to you, either suck it up or make up some excuse why you can't come in, not your arms are tired. 

Learn what tools are what, what parts are what, where they're used and why. Once you get good at that, have the next tool, fitting, part in hand for your journeyman before he has to ask or look for it. 

One last thing I have for you is this. My job as an apprentice, is to make the journey mans job easier and learn as much as I can while doing it. 

Take away what you will from this but these are some things that I've found to be very helpful.


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## chicken steve

icdubois said:


> One last thing I have for you is this. My job as an apprentice, is to make the journey mans job easier and learn as much as I can while doing it.
> 
> .


An EC viewpoint follows suit, one is either getting the work done ,problem solving, etc, or one is not.

We could care less about _'what_' you are....:no:

Of course the_ usual_ hazing applies.....for ex, if your of slight build ,you'll probably be jumping up/down on an 1 1/4" bender , while the crew snickers out of sight....:whistling2::laughing:

~CS~


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## brian john

icdubois said:


> Well during the first few years as a laborer as you put it, think of ways to do the work smarter not harder.
> 
> 
> 
> Take away what you will from this but these are some things that I've found to be very helpful.


Our apprentices are working hand and hand with electricians, doing electrical work, now if there is "laborer type work" then the apprentice is oboigated to getit done.

Take testing circuit breakers this is a two person job, depending on the type of CB, both are pulling one test the other connects disconnects, adjust settings on the CB, Ducters and Meggers. And because testing day after day becomes boring usually the apprentice is shown how to run the high current tester.

BUT generally both people are cleaning up as the sooner everything is cleaned up sooner you can get your bum out of there.

47 years in the trade and I still push a broom if it is needed.


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## MechanicalDVR

brian john said:


> Our apprentices are working hand and hand with electricians, doing electrical work, now if there is "laborer type work" then the apprentice is oboigated to getit done.
> 
> Take testing circuit breakers this is a two person job, depending on the type of CB, both are pulling one test the other connects disconnects, adjust settings on the CB, Ducters and Meggers. And because testing day after day becomes boring usually the apprentice is shown how to run the high current tester.
> 
> BUT generally both people are cleaning up as the sooner everything is cleaned up sooner you can get your bum out of there.
> 
> *47 years in the trade and I still push a broom if it is needed.*


Leading by example is a very positive ethic to have.


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## chicken steve

brian john said:


> 47 years in the trade and I still push a broom if it is needed.


ah, well, methinks the nonPC term is '_job b*tch_' :laughing:, welcome to the club! ~C:jester:S~


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## chicken steve

MechanicalDVR said:


> Leading by example is a very positive ethic to have.


It is MechD , but (for ex) as i've had a career of crawlspace acrobatics ,i have little desire to display such to every noob out there....~CS~


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## MechanicalDVR

chicken steve said:


> It is MechD , but (for ex) as i've had a career of crawlspace acrobatics ,i have little desire to display such to every noob out there....~CS~


I'd never expect a guy to do something I wouldn't do myself and I was taught that at a very young age by Uncles that did pretty well in business.

There have been many times I've showed a guy how I wanted something done and think showing over telling earned me some respect points many times.


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## Southeast Power

I think you need to stop playing the ADD card.


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## Ed E. Current

My favorite thing for an apprentice to do is ask why; "why aren't we pulling a white with these?" "Why are we using a 4-11/16?" "Why is the green smaller?" "Why is that illegal?" I personally find our practices are much easier to learn when you understand why you're doing it.

Purchase every tool you're required to have and then some. 

Never put your hands in your pockets.

If you're digging and the apprentice next to you stops cause he's tired, keep digging.

Get some good boots that are so comfortable, you forget to take them off when you get

Also, I have ADD and work is about the only place I'm functional.


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## Ed E. Current

*get home.


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## 99cents

We have quite a few girls in the trades here, probably because we had a boom and it allowed women to make "nontraditional" career choices. A woman in the trades hardly gets a second look around here.

I hired a female apprentice but it didn't work out. It had very little to do with gender, though. I took my time to explain things to her but she would just go ahead and do it her way anyway. It was hardly worth it to have an apprentice because I had to inspect all her work and tell her to do it again. Her attitude may have come from a government sponsored program for women entering the trades. She thought she knew more than she did but most pre-apprenticeship programs are pretty useless.

On the other hand, I worked beside a tiny finishing carpenter who was amazing. She could hang all the cabinets in a kitchen by herself. I don't know how she did it. Her attention to detail was incredible. She had everybody's respect.

A search of this site regarding apprentices will show that the same rules apply to both men and women. A good apprentice is a good apprentice; gender means nothing.

Also, what Mac says is completely true. In all likelihood, you're a construction worker. All this stuff about automation, engineers and architects comes later.


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## 99cents

ADD? I have ADD, assessed by a psychiatrist with ADD herself (those sessions were entertaining to say the least  ). She said I was "pure" ADD, nothing manic, just pure ADD.

There are lots of us space cases in the trades. The reason it works for us is we perform well with a blend of physical and mental stimulation. ADD is not an attention deficit. If you have ever experienced hyperfocus you know what I am talking about.

The difficulty we have is the mind cloud. We are intelligent people but there are times when we can't put two and two together. One of my tricks is talking to myself. It seems to match the speed of my brain to the speed of the task at hand. It slows my brain down. The other thing I try to do is make an assembly line out of my work. If I'm assembling fixtures, for example, I assemble a number of fixtures at the same time (that's just an efficient way of doing things anyway).

Sometimes when I'm hit with a mind cloud, I'll just stop, walk around and inspect my work. At least it makes it look like I'm doing something when, in actual fact, I'm just waiting for my brain to function. It also helps in the search for misplaced tools  .

I don't take meds. I tried Adderall once and it was amazing but I have just learned to fumble my way through without it.

If you're telling me you have poor attention to detail, I don't believe you for a minute. If you excel at math, that proves otherwise. Sure, we can be "all or nothing" but you can develop a routine and train your brain to meet in the middle.


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## chicken steve

Do you find you hyperfocus so intensely that your ability to formulate and string words descriptively jump around , sound funny 99?

~CS~


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## TokenFemale

99cents said:


> There are lots of us space cases in the trades. The reason it works for us is we perform well with a blend of physical and mental stimulation. ADD is not an attention deficit. If you have ever experienced hyperfocus you know what I am talking about.


oh i know exactly what you're talking about and agree 100%. i think i'm v lucky to be in a situation where the work is interesting and there's something really good and interesting to focus ON!

i've found the drugs made it easier for me to follow directions and avoid stupid mistakes, your mileage may vary. the nurse practitioner who prescribed them told me that focus was a muscle which seemed accurate because i seemed to get thru high school without too much trouble; i guess since i've taken a break i've become stupid. 

i promise i'm not Actually This Whiny you guys i actually have a really good attitude on the job; all the work i did before this was really menial and i'm happy to take out the garbage all day long if that's what's required of me.

that said i hugely appreciate the encouragement and positivity and advice and wise insight, you guys make my day.


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## 99cents

chicken steve said:


> Do you find you hyperfocus so intensely that your ability to formulate and string words descriptively jump around , sound funny 99?
> 
> ~CS~


Actually I haven't, chicken dude. I have experienced intense periods of hyperfocus a few times in my life. By "periods" I mean a two to three month period when one idea or mission consumes me 24/7. Nothing else really matters. It's a time when the conscious and subconscious minds are in complete alignment. I become focused on the same thing while awake and asleep.

It's so intense it scares the hell out of my family. It doesn't scare me because I know it will come to an end. It's not a manic high, it's entirely different.

It's a time when incredible things can be accomplished. I have tried to create hyperfocus but with limited results. I have to wait for something to grab me.

I feel one coming on, though...


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## chicken steve

TokenFemale said:


> i promise i'm not Actually This Whiny you guys i actually have a really good attitude on the job; all the work i did before this was really menial and i'm happy to take out the garbage all day long if that's what's required of me.
> 
> .


We've_ all_ hauled the trash , and we've_ all_ whined about it at some point in our past TokenOne

Stick around, you've a millenia of experience at your fingertips, albeit a tad old & cranky at times.... ~S~


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## chicken steve

99cents said:


> Actually I haven't, chicken dude. I have experienced intense periods of hyperfocus a few times in my life. By "periods" I mean a two to three month period when one idea or mission consumes me 24/7. Nothing else really matters. It's a time when the conscious and subconscious minds are in complete alignment. I become focused on the same thing while awake and asleep.
> 
> It's so intense it scares the hell out of my family. It doesn't scare me because I know it will come to an end. It's not a manic high, it's entirely different.
> 
> It's a time when incredible things can be accomplished. I have tried to create hyperfocus but with limited results. I have to wait for something to grab me.
> 
> I feel one coming on, though...


That would seem like an OC thing 99

No, i mean more that your mind is going 400mph, and you're only able to orate @ 40mph 

Trouble is , said connection creates oratory misfires , for lack of a better word, speech is far too slow.....


~CS~


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## Jamato

99cents said:


> ADD? I have ADD, assessed by a psychiatrist with ADD herself (those sessions were entertaining to say the least  ). She said I was "pure" ADD, nothing manic, just pure ADD.
> 
> There are lots of us space cases in the trades. The reason it works for us is we perform well with a blend of physical and mental stimulation. ADD is not an attention deficit. If you have ever experienced hyperfocus you know what I am talking about.
> 
> The difficulty we have is the mind cloud. We are intelligent people but there are times when we can't put two and two together. One of my tricks is talking to myself. It seems to match the speed of my brain to the speed of the task at hand. It slows my brain down. The other thing I try to do is make an assembly line out of my work. If I'm assembling fixtures, for example, I assemble a number of fixtures at the same time (that's just an efficient way of doing things anyway).
> 
> Sometimes when I'm hit with a mind cloud, I'll just stop, walk around and inspect my work. At least it makes it look like I'm doing something when, in actual fact, I'm just waiting for my brain to function. It also helps in the search for misplaced tools  .
> 
> I don't take meds. I tried Adderall once and it was amazing but I have just learned to fumble my way through without it.
> 
> If you're telling me you have poor attention to detail, I don't believe you for a minute. If you excel at math, that proves otherwise. Sure, we can be "all or nothing" but you can develop a routine and train your brain to meet in the middle.


Yes to all of this! Me too!! 

Worth noting: Talking to oneself. . I am always telling apprentices and other tradesmen how a real electrician talks to him/herself (and sings sometimes!). That's how you know if it's the real deal. You have to be a bit "kooky" in some way. 

I also "suffer" from some ADD. Un-medicated. I have learned to use it to my advantage ie: the "hyperfocus" that 99 mentions.


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## 99cents

Jamato said:


> Yes to all of this! Me too!!
> 
> Worth noting: Talking to oneself. . I am always telling apprentices and other tradesmen how a real electrician talks to him/herself (and sings sometimes!). That's how you know if it's the real deal. You have to be a bit "kooky" in some way.
> 
> I also "suffer" from some ADD. Un-medicated. I have learned to use it to my advantage ie: the "hyperfocus" that 99 mentions.


Taking meds is a personal decision. They have helped me to deal with a few things but I am always wary of side effects. I prefer to deal with things with a clear mind even though that clear mind can be very unclear a times, if that makes any sense. 

One thing that drives me crazy is not being able to see things right in front of my face. An object can be there, I just don't see it. It happens many times a day. If I walk away and come back, the object can suddenly appear.

My psychiatrist asked me about the diagram on the stove at home, where the four dots represent the burners. She asked me if I got them mixed up, if I couldn't relate the dots to the actual burner locations. I said, "Absolutely!". She said it was an indication of ADD  .


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## 99cents

chicken steve said:


> That would seem like an OC thing 99
> 
> No, i mean more that your mind is going 400mph, and you're only able to orate @ 40mph
> 
> Trouble is , said connection creates oratory misfires , for lack of a better word, speech is far too slow.....
> 
> 
> ~CS~


I actually find writing is another way to assemble my thoughts. It's another way to match the speed of my brain to the speed of the task at hand.

I don't know if this has anything to do with ADD but it's a good story: Last week I had to do some work on a T5 highbay in a shop but there was a pickup truck in the way. I couldn't move the truck. I couldn't figure out how to do it. I walked away and then it suddenly occurred to me to use an 8' stepladder in the bed of the truck. Done  .


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## CGW

TokenFemale said:


> it's possible I'm an extreme outlier as I've always struggled to relate to other women.


Not at all. Most women don't like other women.


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## TokenFemale

CGW said:


> Not at all. Most women don't like other women.


only the insecure, stupid ones who think they're supposed to be fighting with each other over guys.

i had a lot of guy friends in college it was pretty comfortable for me, it's kind of hard to know where i fall on this continuum now. i've wasted a lot of time trying to recreate those relationships but mostly failed, i think because these idiots were also trying to date me.

another question for you all: how do you know if you have any mechanical ability? i seem to be okay at fixing stuff around the house (after i screw it up the first few times) but when i get on a worksite it becomes over 9000 times harder. i figure the problem is that i just don't know anything and have no experience but jesus christ it's embarrassing.


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## MechanicalDVR

TokenFemale said:


> only the insecure, stupid ones who think they're supposed to be fighting with each other over guys.
> 
> i had a lot of guy friends in college it was pretty comfortable for me, it's kind of hard to know where i fall on this continuum now. i've wasted a lot of time trying to recreate those relationships but mostly failed, i think because these idiots were also trying to date me.
> 
> another question for you all: how do you know if you have any mechanical ability? i seem to be okay at fixing stuff around the house (after i screw it up the first few times) but when i get on a worksite it becomes over 9000 times harder. i figure the problem is that i just don't know anything and have no experience but jesus christ it's embarrassing.


Stage fright? Nobody is watching at home.


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## Chalr

Homework and study

Sent from my SM-G900V


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## MechanicalDVR

Chalr said:


> Homework and study
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V


Amazing how ambition and drive can get you places.


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