# Lead clad service cable



## Jdubyou1981 (Dec 30, 2020)

I haven’t found anyone that has seen before. Any info would be interesting


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Is the black rubber or tar?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

1- You're handling the lead bare handed. That's bad, wash before you touch anything with cold water. 
2-There's proper lead handling techniques. Abandon in place is the least offensive.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> 1- You're handling the lead bare handed. That's bad, wash before you touch anything with cold water.
> 2-There's proper lead handling techniques. Abandon in place is the least offensive.


This is an absolute especially if you or the customer have kids... The legal ramifications of handling that and/or removing it is no small thing.


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

The above answers are correct. Different areas have different regulation for lead removal. Search OSHA regulations for lead in your area.

You have not completed your profile.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

*Lead sheathed*

Common in 1930s 
Used as exterior farm cable well after that
Lead sheath does not make reliable earth connections
Rubber inner insulation
Tail rubber insulation tends to disintegrate, and muck accumulates on cable ends causing leakage


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

A small town SH I use that has been in business for close to 100 years has a display case with odds and ends of supplies that had been sold and demoed out after 60-70-80 years of service. They have a foot long piece of what looks like 12-2 or 10-2 lead sheathed UF, likely a feed that had went to a well house pump.


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

Airfield cables used to be lead sheathed. When they dig them up now and call me to check, I give it a quick scrape with my knife, if it's shiny, it's been abandoned for an incredibly long time.

Tim


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Haven't seen any for years but have come across it before. Last time I remember was replacing transformer cables on a 8MW hydro unit from the early 60's.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Was common on base, from power house.


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## Jdubyou1981 (Dec 30, 2020)

Jdubyou1981 said:


> View attachment 152834
> 
> I haven’t found anyone that has seen before. Any info would be interesting


It is lead on the outside and cloth wire on the inside. I think. I haven’t split over to see.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Knew a guy that kept a piece next to his driver seat for protection. " it is just a piece of wire from work officer"
Cowboy


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## CWL (Jul 7, 2020)

just the cowboy said:


> Knew a guy that kept a piece next to his driver seat for protection. " it is just a piece of wire from work officer"
> Cowboy


Did he have one end wrapped with linerless splicing tape to protect himself from lead poisoning??


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## Jdubyou1981 (Dec 30, 2020)

Jdubyou1981 said:


> View attachment 152834
> 
> I haven’t found anyone that has seen before. Any info would be interesting


It is lead on the outside and cloth wire on the inside. I think. I haven’t split over to see.


LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> 1- You're handling the lead bare handed. That's bad, wash before you touch anything with cold water.
> 2-There's proper lead handling techniques. Abandon in place is the least offensive.





just the cowboy said:


> Knew a guy that kept a piece next to his driver seat for protection. " it is just a piece of wire from work officer"
> Cowboy


same thought crossed my mind


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## Jdubyou1981 (Dec 30, 2020)

Jdubyou1981 said:


> It is lead on the outside and cloth wire on the inside. I think. I haven’t split over to see.
> 
> 
> same thought crossed my mind





LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> 1- You're handling the lead bare handed. That's bad, wash before you touch anything with cold water.
> 2-There's proper lead handling techniques. Abandon in place is the least offensive.


Thanks for you concern!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

You would get just as much lead from battery posts and clamps on your car. Don't lick your fingers and wash your hands when done.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jdubyou1981 said:


> View attachment 152834
> 
> I haven’t found anyone that has seen before. Any info would be interesting


I worked for a non-union shop when I started in the trade. The guys found some in a hand hole at an older public school.
None of them knew what it was. Their leader decided they should put a screw into it and find out if it was hot. Boom.
No burns or deaths.
They had to hire a cable splicer to put it back together.
I dont really keep up with those guys but, they were all quite entertaining.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Jdubyou1981 said:


> View attachment 152834
> 
> I haven’t found anyone that has seen before. Any info would be interesting


It’s called PILC. Pretty much displaced by polymeric insulation in the 1970s but still lots of it around.

PILC stands for Paper Insulated Lead Cable. The paper is saturated in mineral oil and then wrapped in a lead jacket. Other than the fact that creep is almost inherent and it leaks badly (megger readings low), and very messy to work with, it is very tough stuff.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> 1- You're handling the lead bare handed. That's bad, wash before you touch anything with cold water.
> 2-There's proper lead handling techniques. Abandon in place is the least offensive.


Are you kidding me? Do you know anything about lead? Are you European or something? The absorption of lead in metallic form is almost nil. It’s the compounds, especially salts that are truly bad. Lead oxide even is fairly innocuous as long as you don’t breath in the dust. Ask anyone with real world experience such as a battery plant.

And yes wash your hands but that’s it. You can’t absorb any appreciable amount through your skin. Ingestion is another matter.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

if people are worried about lead covered cables how would one handle bonding to a lead water main? A lot of older developments have lead pipe for the water service.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

paulengr said:


> Are you kidding me? Do you know anything about lead? Are you European or something? The absorption of lead in metallic form is almost nil. It’s the compounds, especially salts that are truly bad. Lead oxide even is fairly innocuous as long as you don’t breath in the dust. Ask anyone with real world experience such as a battery plant.
> 
> And yes wash your hands but that’s it. You can’t absorb any appreciable amount through your skin. Ingestion is another matter.



I heard that when fired out of a gun lead in really poisonous and can cause serious bodily harm in the state of California. Thankfully i live in Florida so i only have to worry about the hole it leaves. .


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

Southeast Power said:


> I worked for a non-union shop when I started in the trade. The guys found some in a hand hole at an older public school.
> None of them knew what it was. Their leader decided they should put a screw into it and find out if it was hot. Boom.
> No burns or deaths.
> They had to hire a cable splicer to put it back together.
> I dont really keep up with those guys but, they were all quite entertaining.


I think i might have worked around the same guys- was the leader's name Bullwinkle ? I'm certain that i wouldn't have such luck if i decided to test various "things" by simply driving screws into them... 









Bullwinkle J. Moose


Bullwinkle J Moose is one of the main characters of The Rocky & Bullwinkle Show. "More than just a moose, Bullwinkle is the finest known example of the great North American Clod. After spending his early childhood in the vast North Woods, (an area bounded roughly by the Arctic Circle and the...




mr-peabody-sherman.fandom.com


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

kb1jb1 said:


> if people are worried about lead covered cables how would one handle bonding to a lead water main? A lot of older developments have lead pipe for the water service.


Would you be able to get enough compression on lead to effect a proper connection? I remember during the boom when i did anything to get it done, i was working on a main inlet to a home and put the wrenches on a coupling to loosen it and it just tore away. Lead is really soft, unless it's moving at 1400 fps or something.


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## Viggmundir (Sep 13, 2019)

Lead is very soft, it is also corrosion resistant. They use it for weights on float switches in septic tanks.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

paulengr said:


> Are you kidding me? Do you know anything about lead? Are you European or something? The absorption of lead in metallic form is almost nil. It’s the compounds, especially salts that are truly bad. Lead oxide even is fairly innocuous as long as you don’t breath in the dust. Ask anyone with real world experience such as a battery plant.
> 
> And yes wash your hands but that’s it. You can’t absorb any appreciable amount through your skin. Ingestion is another matter.


I've seen this stuff used for ConEdison service laterals, on one job told to yank it out of an existing NYC parks service vault. Wouldn't touch it, because lead, and because it's ConEd's. ConEdison came to yank it out and the lead dust cloud came out with it.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

WannabeTesla said:


> I think i might have worked around the same guys- was the leader's name Bullwinkle ? I'm certain that i wouldn't have such luck if i decided to test various "things" by simply driving screws into them...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was right after the Mariel boatlift out of Cuba. The Cubans that came to the US during the early were the professionals that could afford to pick up and leave and assimilate into the US culture. The people that came afterwards had refugee status and mostly worked with the professionals that left early. Miami was decently union at that time and they were somewhat locked out of the MEP trades. Small shops began to pop up and would hire them as helpers. The licensing laws were very solid at the time. The Latin Builders began to form after the Mariel boatlift. It seems like 80 thousand electricians and plumbers were on those boats. They collected money and soon, our licensing laws were completely gutted. It wasn't fair that someone had to take and pass a trilingual or oral test to achieve Journeyman status. Only a single person in a shop of an unlimited amount of people had to have a contracting license. It wasn't long after that we began building highrises in the way it's done in the 3rd world. That's when the Bullwinkling began.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

kb1jb1 said:


> if people are worried about lead covered cables how would one handle bonding to a lead water main? A lot of older developments have lead pipe for the water service.


Shouldn't be much of an issue. Anodic index for lead is 0.7, copper is 0.35, so only 0.35 V difference. That's borderline but still fairly close compared to say aluminum. Outdoors you often see corrosion around galvanized fences for instance where the galvanization eats the copper bonding but indoors it should be fine for your water pipe situation. Honestly this is like bonding to the building rebar which has a similar issue. Corrosion is also affected by pH and buffering. So if for instance your city council is too cheap to buy lime, which is in turn pretty much one of the oldest and cheapest chemicals known to man, you might find yourself doing jail time or spending a lot more money replacing all the piping. That's what happened in Michigan. But don't worry. The silver lining is that by the time you have severe lead poisoning, you'll be too stupid to know it or care about it anyways since lead poisoning affects your cognitive abilities. My theory is that this is a win-win. Liberal governments get more voters by giving their voting population lead poisoning so that they are too stupid to realize how badly they are being screwed. All they are left with is their emotions.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

The point I was trying to make about a lead pipe water service main is how do you bond to it for a grounding electrode? From what I read there is no clamp for it and lead in contact with the dirt over an extended amount of time is basically useless as an electrode. If you bond to it and if down the road there is current on the GEC, will that cause the lead to break down causing it to leach into the water?


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

kb1jb1 said:


> The point I was trying to make about a lead pipe water service main is how do you bond to it for a grounding electrode? From what I read there is no clamp for it and lead in contact with the dirt over an extended amount of time is basically useless as an electrode. If you bond to it and if down the road there is current on the GEC, will that cause the lead to break down causing it to leach into the water?


bonding to a lead pipe you can use a bronze clamp But the inherent problem with the lead water line is even though it doesn't feel like it water turbulence in the pipe system can make the lead piping vibrate slightly.
over time the vibration would cause the bronze clamp to wear shallow grooves into the lead and corrosion would build up. and you would lose the bond.
Ive seen some bonds where copper wire was actually soldered to the lead pipe.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

i forgot to add a lead line probably wont make a very good ground electrode But bonding a lead line to the ground system brings it to equipotential


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

Very common secondary lead sheath cables found in the Older Sections of Philadelphia and I am sure in any east coast city. The **** last forever underground when undisturbed, Typically someone hits it with a backhoe. I have had to splice it more than a few times.


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## samgregger (Jan 23, 2013)

kb1jb1 said:


> if people are worried about lead covered cables how would one handle bonding to a lead water main? A lot of older developments have lead pipe for the water service.


I'm not worried about it, and I would just use your standard cold water bonding clamp.


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

samgregger said:


> I'm not worried about it, and I would just use your standard cold water bonding clamp.


A cold water bonding clamp designed for copper pipes will crush the lead pipe. You will then have a major problem on your hands.


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## davey (Aug 14, 2010)

460 Delta said:


> They have a foot long piece of what looks like 12-2 or 10-2 lead sheathed UF, likely a feed that had went to a well house pump.


On a job a few years ago I found the same stuff run underground to a driveway light. A colleague told me he used to see it run to outdoor signs.


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## davey (Aug 14, 2010)

gnuuser said:


> bonding to a lead pipe you can use a bronze clamp But the inherent problem with the lead water line is even though it doesn't feel like it water turbulence in the pipe system can make the lead piping vibrate slightly.
> over time the vibration would cause the bronze clamp to wear shallow grooves into the lead and corrosion would build up. and you would lose the bond.
> Ive seen some bonds where copper wire was actually soldered to the lead pipe.


Soldering strikes me as an excellent way to make that connection. It can't be the "sole" means of connection, at least of conductors, but I don't know that this applies to electrodes.


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## samgregger (Jan 23, 2013)

You would have to put a lot of heat into a lead pipe full of water in order to get a good solder joint. Especially if you use 60/40, then you would have to get the pipe hotter than the melting point of lead - which sounds bad.


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## davey (Aug 14, 2010)

samgregger said:


> You would have to put a lot of heat into a lead pipe full of water in order to get a good solder joint. Especially if you use 60/40, then you would have to get the pipe hotter than the melting point of lead - which sounds bad.


Maybe so, Sam. Or maybe you could get just enough localized heating to make the bond at that spot without pressure rupture. Or you could get awfully fancy, and shut water at the street handhole and drain it. But at that point . . . get the plumber to run a fresh lateral.


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## samgregger (Jan 23, 2013)

I guess if I ever ran into this situation, I would clean a spot off and use a bonding strap vs a bonding clamp so that it doesn't bite into the pipe. You could put a lug on the end of the wire if needed to make a good connection.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I've never seen a lead water pipe but surely there is a rigid connector of some sort where it terminates? Clamp there or drill and tap for a lug.


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

samgregger said:


> You would have to put a lot of heat into a lead pipe full of water in order to get a good solder joint. Especially if you use 60/40, then you would have to get the pipe hotter than the melting point of lead - which sounds bad.


You never try to solder pipe full of water. You shut the water supply off and drain it first.

You use lead to solder to a lead pipe or to lead sheathing. The method used is called wiping. I did some wiping in my first 2 years of apprenticeship along with my journeyman. Never done it since. Lead wiping is a disappearing skill.




davey said:


> Maybe so, Sam. Or maybe you could get just enough localized heating to make the bond at that spot without pressure rupture. Or you could get awfully fancy, and shut water at the street handhole and drain it. But at that point . . . get the plumber to run a fresh lateral.


The water would dissipate the heat too fast. Lead pipe should be replaced but the cost may be to great for the customer. Not only would the lead pipe have to replaced but the lead would have to be disposed of according to your local/regional/province-state/national regulations.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

paulengr said:


> Shouldn't be much of an issue. Anodic index for lead is 0.7, copper is 0.35, so only 0.35 V difference. That's borderline but still fairly close compared to say aluminum. Outdoors you often see corrosion around galvanized fences for instance where the galvanization eats the copper bonding but indoors it should be fine for your water pipe situation. Honestly this is like bonding to the building rebar which has a similar issue. Corrosion is also affected by pH and buffering. So if for instance your city council is too cheap to buy lime, which is in turn pretty much one of the oldest and cheapest chemicals known to man, you might find yourself doing jail time or spending a lot more money replacing all the piping. That's what happened in Michigan. But don't worry. The silver lining is that by the time you have severe lead poisoning, you'll be too stupid to know it or care about it anyways since lead poisoning affects your cognitive abilities. My theory is that this is a win-win. Liberal governments get more voters by giving their voting population lead poisoning so that they are too stupid to realize how badly they are being screwed. All they are left with is their emotions.


So what is it conservative governments give their voter base to make them devoid of emotions? 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

just the cowboy said:


> Was common on base, from power house.


The old Fire alarm loops also.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

davey said:


> Soldering strikes me as an excellent way to make that connection. It can't be the "sole" means of connection, at least of conductors, but I don't know that this applies to electrodes.


Solder is the hot melt glue of electrical. It is OK as a filler when you already have a solid connection or if there is no mechanical stress whatsoever. That is why it is used to glue tiny electrical parts to circuit boards but wiring connectors are often bolted down even though they are soldered in.

So I don’t see where you are going with this. It doesn’t improve any mechanical properties.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

paulengr said:


> Solder is the hot melt glue of electrical. It is OK as a filler when you already have a solid connection or if there is no mechanical stress whatsoever. That is why it is used to glue tiny electrical parts to circuit boards but wiring connectors are often bolted down even though they are soldered in.
> 
> So I don’t see where you are going with this. It doesn’t improve any mechanical properties.


it was to reduce the galvanic action due to moisture and oxidation.
this was something ive seen in very old domestic and some early commercial installations.
and when i researched it from a very old master that is what he told me.


that being said lead sheathing and lead pipe are generally recommended for removal and often failed upon inspection if used


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