# Problem At Meter?



## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

Hey guys, my dad called today and said he was having some problems in his barn. Some lights were dim, some bright, some equipment not working. I told him to shut power off and I would be over. Started at the panel inside the barn. Checked for anything obvious. The feeder neutral was loose, so I tightened it up. His barn panel is fed by an outside disconnect underneath the meter. Before turning anything on, I checked the line side voltage inside the disconnect. Was reading 120v to neutral on both legs, but was reading 0v across phases. Does this tell me there is a broken neutral between the disconnect and the meter or transformer?

I turned the breaker back on to check voltages inside the barn and load side of the breaker. Was reading 180v and 60v on the outlets inside the barn. Is this an imbalance caused by a lost neutral somewhere between the outside disconnect and the transformer?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The readings are clearly a bad neutral.


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## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The readings are clearly a bad neutral.


 On the service provider side, correct?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Not necessarily but probably


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If all is tight on your side then it is from the power company


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## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

Love this forum, thanks. I graduate the apprentice program in 2 months and I have learned so much from you guys. 
Just to go a little further for the sake of it, since the neutral in open, I realize there is no central point or reference to ground which causes the weird voltage readings (if I'm off base please correct me) but what actually causes the voltage imbalance of 180v readings on some outlets and 60v on the other? Is it that without the neutral, the whole system has been turned into a big series circuit, and you would have a voltage drop across devices? Depending on which phase you are checking and what the load on that phase is will determine the voltage you read?
Is it possible to read any voltage value as long as both phases add up to 240v? Say 30v and 210v?


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## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

you are reading 0V phase to phase? While you may have a neutral issue, it sounds like you lost a phase as well. is phase to ground different than phase to neutral?


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

travis13 said:


> .... Was reading 120v to neutral on both legs, but was *reading 0v across phases*. Does this tell me there is a broken neutral between the disconnect and the meter or transformer? ...


That indicates an open hot, not a open neutral, but the other measurements point to an open neutral.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mitch65 said:


> you are reading 0V phase to phase? While you may have a neutral issue, it sounds like you lost a phase as well. is phase to ground different than phase to neutral?


I agree, I assumed he measured that wrong. Unusual to lose both neutral and hot.


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## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

Regardless of neutral, I should read 240v across phases? Sort of like a 480v delta transformer, I should read 480v across two legs, and there is no neutral present?


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## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

travis13 said:


> Regardless of neutral, I should read 240v across phases? Sort of like a 480v delta transformer, I should read 480v across two legs, and there is no neutral present?


you should read 240 ph to ph. is everything downstream of the panel isolated to prevent measuring a backfeed through any connected devices?


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## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

I turned the breaker off at the disconnect, and the only thing I was checking was line side from the meter base. Phase to neutral/ground bar in the disconnect I was reading 120v. Phase to phase I was reading 0v. I then turned to breaker back on to check some voltages inside the barn at some outlets. I was reading 180v to neutral and 60v to neutral on some outlets inside the barn. As far as readings to ground at the outlets, I don't recall the readings. I had to leave and will be back tomorrow


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## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

New info: my dad just called and told me the electric company was there a week ago and installed a new digital meter.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

The digital meter will tell you the voltage it's receiving.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

travis13 said:


> I turned the breaker off at the disconnect, and the only thing I was checking was line side from the meter base. Phase to neutral/ground bar in the disconnect I was reading 120v. Phase to phase I was reading 0v. I then turned to breaker back on to check some voltages inside the barn at some outlets. I was reading 180v to neutral and 60v to neutral on some outlets inside the barn. As far as readings to ground at the outlets, I don't recall the readings. I had to leave and will be back tomorrow


If you have nothing phase to phase on the line side of the breaker with the breaker off, I don't see how you can have voltages higher than 120 on the load side of the breaker with the breaker on.


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## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

I will get some more readings tomorrow or Friday and let you guys know.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Double check that phase to phase reading, as Dennis suggested, that's the only thing that doesn't fit a missing neutral. 



> Just to go a little further for the sake of it, since the neutral in open, I realize there is no central point or reference to ground which causes the weird voltage readings (if I'm off base please correct me) but what actually causes the voltage imbalance of 180v readings on some outlets and 60v on the other? Is it that without the neutral, the whole system has been turned into a big series circuit, and you would have a voltage drop across devices? Depending on which phase you are checking and what the load on that phase is will determine the voltage you read?


Sounds to me like you understand this pretty well. Be careful of current on the GEC too!


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

travis13 said:


> New info: my dad just called and told me the electric company was there a week ago and *installed a new digital meter.*


If the meter socket is older, odds are VERY high that the installer damaged one of the meter socket contacts. That would explain the apparent loss of one phase (the bad neutral is also there, maybe in the socket or elsewhere.) 

Call the power company, make them pull the meter and inspect the socket for damage. Willing to bet one or more of the socket contacts is damaged. 



Service Call said:


> The digital meter will tell you the voltage it's receiving.


True but it won't show what's going out..if one of the load side socket clips is bad makes no difference to the meter.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

mxslick said:


> True but it won't show what's going out..if one of the load side socket clips is bad makes no difference to the meter.



Yep! I've seen a lot of bad sockets due to the meter being "slammed" into the clips.


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## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

What did you find out?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

I would pull the meter, and check the stabs, since the problem seems to have developed after the new meter install.


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