# Mixing different brand breakers



## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

What is the reason that you cannot use, say, a Square D breaker in a GE panel? Different ratings among companies?


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

The manufacturers don't test other brand breakers in there panels. Basically they haven't been through UL testing.


----------



## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

So why then?


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

alselec53 said:


> So why then?


Why what


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

alselec53 said:


> So why then?


Cost to the manufactures for testing and I do not want my customers using other electrical contractors and breaker manufactures are no different Square D wants you locked into buying their product.

Additionally Square D thinks their snap in is better and GE feels the same they would have to manufacture to the same design and that AIN''t HAPPENING.


----------



## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

dawgs said:


> The manufacturers don't test other brand breakers in there panels. Basically they haven't been through UL testing.


I'm guilty of using competitive manufacturers breakers in panels not listed for them.
I figured that both were U/L listed and therefore it was OK. Also, why would they make them all alike?
You can't use QO breakers, in a Homeline panel, CH,CH breakers in a BR panel, because of physical differences.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

alselec53 said:


> What is the reason that you cannot use, say, a Square D breaker in a GE panel? Different ratings among companies?


Why can't you use a phone charger from an android based phone on an I phone?


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Why can't you use a phone charger from an android based phone on an I phone?


Because it won't fit.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Panel change!


----------



## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

Of course the breakers are interchangable, as far as fitting, but I've seen inspectors knock down using different brands in panels. I know it doesn't make sense, and probably would never make a difference, but I think it might have something to do with the maximum breaker rating, between manufacturers.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Most of the breaker manufactures play the warranty card against the listing of their product as 110.3B validation, even though the majority of them are constructed in a similar 3/4"frame model via 3rd world labor

~CS~


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

alselec53 said:


> Of course the breakers are interchangable, as far as fitting, but I've seen inspectors knock down using different brands in panels. I know it doesn't make sense, and probably would never make a difference, but I think it might have something to do with the maximum breaker rating, between manufacturers.


Well put that Sq D QO in A GE panel then and go home.


----------



## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

brian john said:


> Well put that Sq D QO in A GE panel then and go home.


I did, and the inspector turned it down. Had to use a GE.


----------



## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

alselec53 said:


> I did, and the inspector turned it down. Had to use a GE.


How big was the hammer you used?


----------



## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

alselec53 said:


> I did, and the inspector turned it down. Had to use a GE.


There is just no hope for this trade.


----------



## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

I wouldn't use a non brand breaker in a panel, unless it was an emergency. Even then I'd want to go back and change it. With the exception of a listed replacement breaker. Even then I would try and not use it. In a worst case scenario I don't want to be the last one in a panel and not use a correct breaker.


----------



## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

drspec said:


> How big was the hammer you used?


Obliviously it was a home line, or he really did use a hammer.


----------



## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

I always thought it fails because the breaker isn't specifically UL listed to clip to that bus?


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

alselec53 said:


> I did, and the inspector turned it down. Had to use a GE.


LOL, I think you fell into a trap, there is NO WAY a QO breaker will even plug into a GE panel of any sort! The stab assemblies are totally different and incompatible. The QO stab assembly is oriented 90 degrees compared to the GE!

Here's what really is going on, expanding on what Brian said. Mfrs of panels have ZERO incentive to pay for UL listing of their panels with any other brand of breakers but their own. They want to sell THEIR breakers for THEIR panels.

But panel mfrs are ALSO breaker mfrs. and they want to sell their BREAKERS for use in COMPETITOR's panels! So what they do is buy the most common of their competitor's panels and test their breakers in them with UL. However, this is a VERY expensive process, roughly $25K per line item, so they cannot do it for EVERY possible panel configuration as UL requires. So they only pick the high volume stuff because that gives them a large enough potential market to amortize the cost and make it worth doing.

Years ago, a number of smaller separate companies took this to the nth degree and began making their panels so similarly, that everyone began referring to them as "interchangeable". So breakers from ITE and Murray (both later bought by Siemens) were basically the same as GE (THQL), Bryant (now Eaton) and Sylvania (later Challenger, now also Eaton) and would plug into each other's panels. Sq. D stayed separate with the QO line, although years later they released the "Homeline" products that were now added to this list of "interchangeable" breakers. After that, Siemens and Eaton then released a version of the QO breakers that would fit into Sq. D panels, tit-for-tat.

But the fact has always remained however that the acceptable use of breakers in different brands is specific to which of the competitor's panels the breakers are tested in and listed for by UL. Any of the breaker mfrs can provide you with the list or a certification letter stating that their breaker IS in fact UL listed in your competitive panel, IF that panel is on that short list, and IF you want to take the time to get all this. It often takes weeks, and sometimes you find out weeks later that you picked wrong after all.

Technically though, if you plug in a Siemens breaker into a common C-H BR style box, chances are pretty good that Siemens has in fact tested and listed their breaker to do that by buying that C-H box, plugging in their breakers, and blowing them up at UL. If the inspector says no, you can challenge him, go to your authorized Siemens distributor and request a certification letter, giving them the EXACT part numbers of the breakers you are using and the EXACT part number of the C-H box you want to plug them into, then someone at Siemens will forward a copy of a form letter stating that those breakers are UL listed for that. Assuming of course that they are.

The other bigger problem with all this trouble is, to do it you have to do it with the BREAKER supplier, not the panel supplier, and the breaker is CHEAP by comparison. So if you are only saving $1 per breaker and there are 5 breakers, is it worth all that trouble? Not to the average contractor doing a one-off job. It's FAR cheaper to just put in the right breaker! If you are a large volume contractor buying 10s of thousands of breakers per year, maybe it is!

Note of explanation: I used to be that guy at Siemens who wrote those letters. Most of the time, it was for the "QO Killer" breakers we sold to plug into Sq. D QO load centers, but every now and then I had to do it for our OWN breakers because some newbie inspector had no idea that Siemens, Murray and ITE were all EXACTLY the same thing.


----------



## SetElectrician (Sep 24, 2020)

I am trying to buy a house and just got flagged by the inspector for a SquareD breaker in a GE panel. For 20 years I built temporary distro panels (a breaker box on plywood) for the entertainment industry. Every single distro I built had to be inspected. I never once heard that the breakers all had to be the same. I would just go to the parts window and ask for a double pull 20a breaker and get whatever the purchasing agents had gotten on sale. Some boxes would have 3 or 4 different brands breakers in them. (For the record, I always thought SquareD was a far superior brand to GE and would have considered a SquareD breaker in a GE panel an improvement)


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

I like that you bumped a 7 year old thread...

To answer your question, breakers must be listed for use in a panel.

There are some that are cross-listed for use in panels not made by the manufacturer. 

Generally, however, best practice is to use the breakers made by the manufacturer of the panel. Square D in a square D panel. Cutler hammer in a cutler hammer panel. Etc.


----------



## SetElectrician (Sep 24, 2020)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> I like that you bumped a 7 year old thread...


yes, I am bumping a 7 year old thread because I have changed careers and am no longer a licensed electrician, and I am frustrated that the county is making me hire a licensed electrician to replace a $9.30 breaker


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

SetElectrician said:


> yes, I am bumping a 7 year old thread because I have changed careers and am *no longer a licensed electrician*, and I am frustrated that the county is making me hire a licensed electrician to replace a $9.30 breaker


Lol. This is funny.

Also, IBTB (in before the ban).

All licensed electricians know not to bump archived threads, read site rules, and that breakers have to be approved for the enclosure they're installed in... not just mix and match any brand you can find and call it good.

You've been flagged for moderator review. If I were a mod, I'd have banned you already 😈😈


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Breakers are listed for the panels in which they were manufactured for. Inspector is correct. I am closing this thread


----------

