# This is easy



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

But I'm stumped. 


Scenario: 21 parking lot lights to come on at dusk and 14 of them to drop out at 12am with a manual override to turn on lights whenever needed. 

I have an H.O.A, time delay relay (8-pin) and 2 contactors with N.O and N.C auxiliary contacts. This is an exam I have on Monday. I'm typically pretty good with controls so I'm a little embarrassed to ask for help. Thanks.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chrisibew440 said:


> But I'm stumped.
> 
> 
> Scenario: 21 parking lot lights to come on at dusk and 14 of them to drop out at 12am with a manual override to turn on lights whenever needed.
> ...



Just when is 12 hours Anti-Meridian?

Is that like 1 hour after 11 hours Anti-Meridian?

Or is it 13 hours later?....:laughing:


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

www.allaboutcircuits.com to refresh your mind with the time delay relay.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

If we were in Australia it would be 12 lights on at dusk and 41 off at 21 am.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

CADPoint said:


> www.allaboutcircuits.com to refresh your mind with the time delay relay.


 Thanks but that's not where I'm hung up. I'm hung up when you throw it in hand because I keep re energizing the time delay coil. I'm drawing this as well, if I was hands on I'd have it.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

What's normally open and what's normally closed? 

After 12 hours everything shouts do and begins the whole process again.

Tick, tick....


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chrisibew440 said:


> But I'm stumped.
> 
> 
> Scenario: 21 parking lot lights to come on at dusk and 14 of them to drop out at 12am with a manual override to turn on lights whenever needed.
> ...


Is there a time clock that shuts them off?

What is an H.O.A?

A lighting contactor on a time clock will control the 12 lights to go out at midnight

Is there a photo eye turning on all the lights at Dusk?

If so it should feed though direct to the 7 lights and the other 14 should be fed from the contactor fed from the time clock feeding the coil that closes the contacts .


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

CADPoint said:


> What's normally open and what's normally closed?
> 
> After 12 hours everything shouts do and begins the whole process again.
> 
> Tick, tick....


At dusk whatever that is. The process starts. So I have the time delay energized by my auto with the control circuit going through the normally closed contacts and to the contactor coil so when it times out at 12 am it opens contact and drops out the 14 lights. Off the same wire that hits my time delay coil I have another wire that goes to the other contactor coil so both will be energized in the auto mode just 14 will be timed out. My issue is when in hand I'm energizing my time delay again which we don't want. I need to be able to run the lights as long as I want ( all of them )


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Is there a time clock that shuts them off?
> 
> What is an H.O.A?
> 
> ...


An hoa is a hand off auto three position selector switch.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Is there a time clock that shuts them off?
> 
> What is an H.O.A?
> 
> ...


Yeah I can wire this a couple different ways myself but part of the test is only having my select items.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chrisibew440 said:


> An hoa is a hand off auto three position selector switch.



Man of coarse it is,I should know that,,,:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Yeah I can wire this a couple different ways myself but part of the test is only having my select items.


Yup I got it now,,it's a test, and of coarse you must give the answer they want...


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Man of coarse it is,I should know that,,,:laughing:


It's all good. I get hung up on lame stuff all the time. That's what happens when a brain is thinking to fast.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chrisibew440 said:


> It's all good. I get hung up on lame stuff all the time. That's what happens when a brain is thinking *to *fast.


That's too...:whistling2::laughing::laughing:


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> That's too...:whistling2::laughing::laughing:


Nice excuse huh? Lmao.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Nice excuse huh? Lmao.


:laughing::laughing:


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

The 7 lights that stay on from dusk till dawn are connected to whatever device senses dark. 

The 14 other lights are run through the NC contact of the time-delay, which is set to however many hours it is between dusk and 12AM. The coil of the time-delay is energized whenever the 7 lights are on.

Depending on what 'manual override' means, the hand contact will always energize the 7 lights + the other 14 on the load side of the time delay. 

The auto position could be used to bypass the time delay resulting in all lights being on from dusk to dawn, or it could be connected in series with the dusk to dawn sensor resulting in normal operation in auto, no operation in off or all lights on regardless of ambient light when in hand.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

micromind said:


> The 7 lights that stay on from dusk till dawn are connected to whatever device senses dark.
> 
> The 14 other lights are run through the NC contact of the time-delay, which is set to however many hours it is between dusk and 12AM. The coil of the time-delay is energized whenever the 7 lights are on.
> 
> ...



That's my issue. When the hand contact is energized you are re energizing the time delay, thus timing out the other 14 lights. That's not good. 

And your auto contact comment is just swapped with how I'd wire it. I put the time delay on the auto contacts and the normal operation of the lights on the hand contacts. 




Correct me if I'm wrong or keep trying.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

micromind said:


> The 7 lights that stay on from dusk till dawn are connected to whatever device senses dark.
> 
> The 14 other lights are run through the NC contact of the time-delay, which is set to however many hours it is between dusk and 12AM. The coil of the time-delay is energized whenever the 7 lights are on.
> 
> ...


On the load side of the time delay? What side is load to you? And this did cross my train of thought. So when you throw it hand how are you not energizing anything else on the relay?


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Chrisibew440 said:


> That's my issue. *When the hand contact is energized you are re energizing the time delay*, thus timing out the other 14 lights. That's not good.
> 
> And your auto contact comment is just swapped with how I'd wire it. I put the time delay on the auto contacts and the normal operation of the lights on the hand contacts.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong or keep trying.


It's almost a trick question, walk away from it for 10 minutes.
then read this ~ !

http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=15785

I might be wrong but I think your missing the point that a NC is on a timer, so is NO. So then you can get into the opposite thoughts of NO/NC and put the 
hoa in the correct location!

Harry you need to be a teacher here and not a professor! IE get them to think not lecture them :whistling2:

:jester: > < What do i know...


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

CADPoint said:


> It's almost a trick question, walk away from it for 10 minutes.
> then read this ~ !
> 
> http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=15785
> ...


Alright. I'll do that. You seem confident and maybe there's something I didn't know about the timer. The only way I've used them in the past is start banks of starters for equipment.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Chrisibew440 said:


> That's my issue. When the hand contact is energized you are re energizing the time delay, thus timing out the other 14 lights. That's not good.
> 
> And your auto contact comment is just swapped with how I'd wire it. I put the time delay on the auto contacts and the normal operation of the lights on the hand contacts.
> 
> ...


If it's in hand, and hand energizes the 14 lights on the load side of the time delay, it won't matter what state the time delay contact is in; it's bypassed.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

micromind said:


> If it's in hand, and hand energizes the 14 lights on the load side of the time delay, it won't matter what state the time delay contact is in; it's bypassed.


Ok. I see it. Thanks man. And to everyone else on this thread.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

micromind said:


> If it's in hand, and hand energizes the 14 lights on the load side of the time delay, it won't matter what state the time delay contact is in; it's bypassed.


My problem was that I was making jumpers at the relay and not having 120v sitting their waiting. That's how I was re-energizing the coil for the timer.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

You still can't get 12:00AM without a time clock. Your timer will only do it after dusk which changes so a timer can't work.:no:


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

just the cowboy said:


> You still can't get 12:00AM without a time clock. Your timer will only do it after dusk which changes so a timer can't work.:no:


I know but we had to simulate it. I thought it was pretty cheesey myself.


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