# FLIR I 5 infared camera



## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

I just purchased a FLIR infrared camera, I should get it by tomorrow. Has anyone capitalized on this new wave of technology yet. I know it's been out for quite some time. But, there seems to be a market out there for us to tap into according to a article in ECMAG March edition.

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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

How much did you pay for your camera? Did it say it could see through walls?:jester:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> I just purchased a FLIR infrared camera, I should get it by tomorrow. Has anyone capitalized on this new wave of technology yet. I know it's been out for quite some time. But, there seems to be a market out there for us to tap into according to a article in ECMAG March edition.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I have been performing IR for almost 30 years.

Have you considered any training?

There is more to doing a proper IR scan than owning a camera.

Did you read an article or did you do research, typically these articles are written on behalf of the marketing dept. of a camera manufacture?

Where do you live in NY?

What type of market do you see as being most profitable?

This camera goes for around $1,600.00


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Good questions Brian!! I've been doing some research for last few weeks. I'm going to intergrate it into to my business somehow. I have thought of a few marketing themes that might help. As far as training is concerned, yes, I do plan on getting some sort of certificate. It was one of those impulse buys that makes sense. Also, my largest realty account, is going to be a target for new business, provided the sales pitch that I'll recite will work'em over!!! 
Do you think it's a smat move?

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

JohnR said:


> How much did you pay for your camera? Did it say it could see through walls?:jester:


1600+

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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

It can be a good market.

I get sort of frustrated as I have spent years developing a very good system and report. Lately everyone and his brother wants to be an IR specialist. I have no problem with that, I do have an issue when I see hack quality work and most of what I see from others is hack quality IMO.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

An IR camera is a smart move if you know how to drive. I can slam through the gears of a 440, but I wouldn't know the first thing about coming out on top driving a 7000HP alcohol funny car.

Trust me please, this is NOTHING you'll learn from a few books and a 20 hr. class:no:

Sorry


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Sounds like I'm being discouraged. Are you guys saying that an IR camera is not easy to use. Or it takes yrs of exp to understand what your visualizing thru thermal imaging?

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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Sounds like I'm being discouraged. Are you guys saying that an IR camera is not easy to use. Or it takes yrs of exp to understand what your visualizing thru thermal imaging?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


It's not a point and shoot camera, to put it simply. Certifications go up to level 3 I believe and it takes a while to get accustomed to using it. There are a lot of settings to take into consideration. With my fluke ti20 i recalibrate at even a 5 degree room temperature change, which then requires changing other settings manually. I don't think anyone is discouraging you, just letting you know there is acquired skill involved


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

zwodubber said:


> It's not a point and shoot camera, to put it simply. Certifications go up to level 3 I believe and it takes a while to get accustomed to using it. There are a lot of settings to take into consideration. With my fluke ti20 i recalibrate at even a 5 degree room temperature change, which then requires changing other settings manually. I don't think anyone is discouraging you, just letting you know there is acquired skill involved


Yes, your absolutely right!! I realize I will Definitely require some training. Just like anything in our business requires some sort of training. With that said. I'm Hoping I can grow into a new area of this industry.

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

With all of your comments taken into consideration. Is this instrument worth having in my tool bag. Preventive measures is how I would approach my customers. For a small fee I would simply analyze there electrical systems.

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Yes, your absolutely right!! I realize I will Definitely require some training. Just like anything in our business requires some sort of training. With that said. I'm Hoping I can grow into a new area of this industry.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Which would be a better camera choice FLIR I 5 or fluke

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

brian john said:


> It can be a good market.
> 
> I get sort of frustrated as I have spent years developing a very good system and report. Lately everyone and his brother wants to be an IR specialist. I have no problem with that, I do have an issue when I see hack quality work and most of what I see from others is hack quality IMO.


What exactly do you do!! Electrician, engineer, instructor, business owner. I found you to be very knowledgable in many area's.

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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Salvatoreg02, This topic really interests me. I am also real close to buying this one or the IR7.
Please let us know your first impressions and maybe an update after you get used to it.
Seems like it would be a great visual aide for a customer to see a problem instead of just having to believe.
Scott


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Salvatoreg02, This topic really interests me. I am also real close to buying this one or the IR7.
> Please let us know your first impressions and maybe an update after you get used to it.
> Seems like it would be a great visual aide for a customer to see a problem instead of just having to believe.
> Scott


I will, I will be picking it up shortly.

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Will I picked it up and started using it around the house. It's a little more difficult then I thought. The instructions really suck.

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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> With all of your comments taken into consideration. Is this instrument worth having in my tool bag. Preventive measures is how I would approach my customers. For a small fee I would simply analyze there electrical systems.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


That is why many testing firms dislike all the "new comers". Lets drive the price down, lets cheapen the market.

This takes training, plus a typical report takes another 2-4 hours to complete, in addition to time on site for the IR scan. 

If you are going to enter the market try to be competitive do not try to drive the market into CHEAPDOM.

While this may sound like I am trying to be exclusive to some and bitter to others. I listen to many on several forums complain about the "new guy" working for peanuts. This is no different.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Brian, the more a company because more Completive the better it is for everyone. You'll always have" new comers" if there weren't any there would be a monopoly. 
Grant it, I won't be infringing on any of your customers any time soon. 
I recall a friend of mine starting up an IT company in the late 90' s my wife's company was one of his first customers. He was a very intelligent man but lacked business sense. He was introduced to a man who was in business acquisitions, they became partners and he took there company from 6mil$$$ to over 300mil$$$. 
The Point I'm trying to make is I really don't need to know anything. I can hire people and tap into this market. I'm the businessman. I just need people with know how. 
Your business needs to evolve everyday, to meet todays demands. 
PS
We have only tapped into 1% of this market. Just goes to show there plenty of work for everyone. 
Sorry if I went on a tangent. 

Regards,
Sal

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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> That is why many testing firms dislike all the "new comers". Lets drive the price down, lets cheapen the market.


 This same thing was discussed at the NETA conference, 95% of NETA companies stopped doing them because you can't come close on price to a guy "taking pictures". 



brian john said:


> This takes training, plus a typical report takes another 2-4 hours to complete, in addition to time on site for the IR scan.


 You forgot a 2nd guy in the right PPE removing and re-installing panels. One EC I used to bid these against told customers he had a special IR camera that did not require panels to be removed. :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Zog said:


> This same thing was discussed at the NETA conference, 95% of NETA companies stopped doing them because you can't come close on price to a guy "taking pictures".
> 
> You forgot a 2nd guy in the right PPE removing and re-installing panels. One EC I used to bid these against told customers he had a special IR camera that did not require panels to be removed. :laughing:


 
Did he travel the east coast.... 

My PPE for employees doing IR cost more than the FLIR IR camera he just purchased.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Brian, the more a company because more Completive the better it is for everyone. You'll always have" new comers" if there weren't any there would be a monopoly.


Competitive we do not mind, whoring the market is another thing.



> The Point I'm trying to make is I really don't need to know anything. I can hire people and tap into this market. I'm the businessman. I just need people with know how.
> Your business needs to evolve everyday, to meet today's demands.


Believe me I do not know everything, I hire experts, I also spend money on training.

It is a good market, but do it properly, and be competitive but do not drive prices down. It cheapens the final product.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Which would be a better camera choice FLIR I 5 or fluke
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


 
Both manufactures make a good product.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> What exactly do you do!! Electrician, engineer, instructor, business owner. I found you to be very knowledgable in many area's.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


 
I own an electrical contracting business, I solve problems electrical contractors can't. I typically work for engineers and EC's and anyone willing to pay.

In addition we do electrical testing,, IR, PQ, Battery service, generator service and data centers, hospitals and anything else that pays the bills.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> Did he travel the east coast....


It was a large firm in the midwest, they made all the real IR scanning guys quit doing them. They would be maybe 1/5th of our quote (And my other competitors)



brian john said:


> My PPE for employees doing IR cost more than the FLIR IR camera he just purchased.


 Yep. But to be fair, that camera is better than the one we paid $40k for 20 years ago.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Sounds like I'm being discouraged. Are you guys saying that an IR camera is not easy to use. Or it takes yrs of exp to understand what your visualizing thru thermal imaging?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


You can learn it. It is about interpretation of what you are seeing. You should, as others have said, get training. There is a lot to learn and it can be fun...especially if you shoot an image of the floor around the toilet right after you have peed. It will gross you out.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Zog said:


> I
> Yep. But to be fair, that camera is better than the one we paid $40k for 20 years ago.


My first camera cost 62,000.00 and the cheapest Fluke has a better image, than that camera.

Top of the line camera for field surveys today is not over $30,000.00


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

I've heard all your issues. The bottom line is technology is ever changing everyday. Every electronic device that you can name at one point was worth a million dollars.
It has to be made affordable. That just capitalist society. Training is key in any area in our field.

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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

brian john said:


> I own an electrical contracting business, I solve problems electrical contractors can't. I typically work for engineers and EC's and anyone willing to pay.
> 
> In addition we do electrical testing,, IR, PQ, Battery service, generator service and data centers, hospitals and anything else that pays the bills.


Brian, cool to see another member into PQ and IR. I still have A LOT to learn about IR and hopefully can learn some things from you.

Here are some pics from today when I picked one of my PQ meters, I'm a picture junkie


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

brian john said:


> Believe me I do not know everything, I hire experts, I also spend money on training.
> 
> It is a good market, but do it properly, and be competitive but do not drive prices down. It cheapens the final product.


Can you recommend any good sites forums that focus on IR? I've been waiting about 2 months for my account to be activated at flukecommunity.com and received no response after sending an email or two...


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## fraydo (Mar 30, 2009)

My company just bought a flir t-400. My supervisor got his level 1 certification and when he came back he ends up giving me a crash course, loans me the training workbook and is having me do the imaging. I'm starting to get the hang of it but I can definitely say it's not the same as attending the training. If i could afford it I would go on my own.


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## ELEVATOR -VoIP (Mar 31, 2011)

In the early days of Flir I helped support their Tigard (Portland) engineering department with electronic components. It was (and I'm sure still is) a great and creative environment. We were blown away when they could differenciate between foot print heat and the surrounding floor. You could run your hand along a wall and see the heat trail.

Wild stuff back then! :thumbup:


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

ELEVATOR -VoIP said:


> In the early days of Flir I helped support their Tigard (Portland) engineering department with electronic components. It was (and I'm sure still is) a great and creative environment. We were blown away when they could differenciate between foot print heat and the surrounding floor. You could run your hand along a wall and see the heat trail.
> 
> Wild stuff back then! :thumbup:


I just did that the other day, that was cool.

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Well day 2 and I believe I'm making progress. While working at a customers house, I had the panel cover removed and scanned it with my brand new FLIR I 5. I Used a couple of tricks that I learned and discovered a wire that was glowing extremely whitish . Put the camera down, and pulled the wire right out the breaker. Now, with out this device I would have never known that. It just goes to show with a little ambition and some patience I believe I can conquer this machine.

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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

I am also interested in thermography and have been looking at ir camera's. I have used one a lot of times working at the utilty. Our transmission supplier had one and passed it around to all of their distributers so it was well used but was extremely helpful when we had it. I see a lot of need for one in this area and there are no ec's around here with one. I wil follow this thread so keep posting info.:thumbsup:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

charging up the camera for tomorrow... gotta love working well into the night


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Well day 2 and I believe I'm making progress. While working at a customers house, I had the panel cover removed and scanned it with my brand new FLIR I 5. I Used a couple of tricks that I learned and discovered a wire that was glowing extremely whitish . Put the camera down, and pulled the wire right out the breaker. Now, with out this device I would have never known that. It just goes to show with a little ambition and some patience I believe I can conquer this machine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


1. I would NOT pull on a wire with a thermal issue. I would perform an FOP to locate the source of the thermal issue.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

brian john said:


> 1. I would NOT pull on a wire with a thermal issue. I would perform an FOP to locate the source of the thermal issue.


The wire wasn't torqued properly, i pulled it out from the breaker without loosening the screwe and it was under load. I was shocked that the camera had picked up the excessive heat. it only had 5 amp on it after I reinstalled it

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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> The wire wasn't torqued properly, i pulled it out from the breaker without loosening the screwe and it was under load. I was shocked that the camera had picked up the excessive heat. it only had 5 amp on it after I reinstalled it
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


 
DO NOT PULL WIRES as part of your scanning.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Several people have asked for and information sites or books I may have for Infrared. I really have very little to offer in that realm. Should you want any information I have in my simple mind, or need sample forms I would gladly supply those.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

brian john said:


> DO NOT PULL WIRES as part of your scanning.


It was a residential 200 service panel. Why not?

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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

My new toy.

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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If you are going to do IR and need to take real time pictures, put a piece of tissue paper or white cloth over the flash to cut the glare.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

brian john said:


> If you are going to do IR and need to take real time pictures, put a piece of tissue paper or white cloth over the flash to cut the glare.


This cheap IR doesn't even have a flash. You would think that it would after spending $1700.

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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

brian john said:


> Several people have asked for and information sites or books I may have for Infrared. I really have very little to offer in that realm. Should you want any information I have in my simple mind, or need sample forms I would gladly supply those.


My partner is interested in getting certified. IF I saw the marketability of it, I may as well. Brian, would you be interested in writing off your autumn visit to show me some of the business end of IR?


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> This cheap IR doesn't even have a flash. You would think that it would after spending $1700.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I believe he means real time pictures with a separate camera. I always snap a thermal image and an exact duplicate with my digital camera to show customers the reference


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> This cheap IR doesn't even have a flash. You would think that it would after spending $1700.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I would think that IR could deliver an image in the dark.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

1/2 of a single discrepancy report.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> 1/2 of a single discrepancy report.


Would you tighten that lug for .9 degree difference? Would you consider that necessarily a problem?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

That si a picture of current on the Ground Electrode Conductor. Something that warrants investigation. The money is in the repairs.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> That si a picture of current on the Ground Electrode Conductor. Something that warrants investigation. The money is in the repairs.


I have, for a while, been interested in the problems with current on GECs. On residences, it seems easier to track down. Do you have any ides about this case?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I have, for a while, been interested in the problems with current on GECs. On residences, it seems easier to track down. Do you have any ides about this case?


Grounded neutral downstream from the service disconnect. They had utility sub-meters that come with the neutral grounded to the back box.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Salvatoreg, I know you took some heat from guys that specialize in IR but what they don't understand is that your not really going around dong IR surveys. You are just using it as a test tool or meter. Trying to do a better job for your customer.
Are you getting the hang of it yet or is it just another toy?
Like I said before this thread really interest me, at least the entry level IR cam stuff.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

zwodubber said:


> Can you recommend any good sites forums that focus on IR? I've been waiting about 2 months for my account to be activated at flukecommunity.com and received no response after sending an email or two...


 

Don't know who you tried to email, but there's really only one active administrator. Your account is now activated.

There's only a few active IR guys there, and that forum is _strictly business. _No riff raff, name calling, or talk of the football game, it's *business, *and *business *_only._

One more thing on the subject. Don't ever expect a response from Corp., it's a User forum only.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

76nemo said:


> Don't know who you tried to email, but there's really only one active administrator. Your account is now activated.
> 
> There's only a few active IR guys there, and that forum is strictly business. No riff raff, name calling, or talk of the football game, it's business, and business only.
> 
> One more thing on the subject. Don't ever expect a response from Corp., it's a User forum only.


Thanks!

I pm'd 2 admins but got nothing back. Thanks for the heads up, I'll save the nonsense for you guys :thumbup:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> This cheap IR doesn't even have a flash. You would think that it would after spending $1700.


That right there scares me, you need to get some IR training. :whistling2:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

zwodubber said:


> Can you recommend any good sites forums that focus on IR? I've been waiting about 2 months for my account to be activated at flukecommunity.com and received no response after sending an email or two...


 http://www.infraredtraining.com/certification/levels.asp


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Since this thread popped back up, I need an opinion on something. My ti20 does not take pictures of a thermal image in the center with the surrounding area as seen by the eye (see photo below, from a newer ti25 which replaced my model)












When I do reports I do a side by side thermal image and digital photo (see brian john's above post). I've been playing around and after taking the 2 separate photo's I combine them to simulate that feature (see photo below). 











Is this acceptable as an *addition* to the comparison photos? or should I not do this? I showed one customer and they thought it made it very clear and helped them visualize what they were looking at.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> DO NOT PULL WIRES as part of your scanning.


We've all done it but as was pointed out...never pull on a wire as part of an IR test/trouble call. There is always the risk of the arc flash phenomena.


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