# Are the feds' apprenticeships better than Ibew's?



## 3rd Rail (Jul 9, 2017)

Or is it all the same?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Usually, if someone goes through an apprenticeship for one, they don't go through it again for the other, so it's kinda hard to compare the two.
But, the IBEW has a reputation to keep up, the Fed...............not so much. 
What apprenticeships does the Federal government offer?


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## 3rd Rail (Jul 9, 2017)

joebanana said:


> Usually, if someone goes through an apprenticeship for one, they don't go through it again for the other, so it's kinda hard to compare the two.
> But, the IBEW has a reputation to keep up, the Fed...............not so much.
> What apprenticeships does the Federal government offer?


You're right, I also should simply asked if being an electrician for the feds is better than being one in the union, and which has a better learning environment?

From what I understand with the apprenticeships, the feds break down their mandatory paid for college degree/certificate in a different period than their on the job training, you get paid full time wages to attend school for a period of time, and then you're off to get your hours, and so on for 4 years.

For most Unions on the other hand it is required for you to work during the day and then attend school at night, you don't get paid to attend school and this leaves you with a very small window to do overtime.

Feds start you up $2~$3 and up higher than the union as an apprentice.
In most cases you'll get the chance to earn a secret, or top secret clearance. 

Feds offers more vacation days compared to the Union.
Some electrician jobs with the feds will pay for your moving expenses.


Although if all goes well, you're guaranteed continuous work with the feds without having to worry about being laid off, or going on strike.
But, based off different White House administrations, your job/contract could be terminated at anytime, or even be forced to work for $1/h.


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## 3rd Rail (Jul 9, 2017)

joebanana said:


> What apprenticeships does the Federal government offer?


Take this one for example



> This position is located at the Fleet Readiness Center, Southwest (FRC-SW) in Coronado, CA.
> This program is a 4-year combination work/study program.
> These positions have promotion potential to the WG-10 Level.
> The A/C Jig and Fixture Builder has promotion potential to the WG-11 level.
> ...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I think you need to go by the area the job is in and the wage it tops out at.

Some areas pay much better than others and offer higher paying positions you can work towards.


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## 3rd Rail (Jul 9, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I think you need to go by the area the job is in and the wage it tops out at.
> 
> Some areas pay much better than others and offer higher paying positions you can work towards.


This is indeed correct in most cases.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

3rd Rail said:


> This is indeed correct in most cases.


I've done contracting work on many military installations and worked along with many Federal employees and heard their side on the pluses and minuses of their employment. 

Location is a huge factor.

Getting dead ended in a plateaued position is the most common complaint.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

3rd Rail said:


> Take this one for example


So, basically, they want you to enlist. At the minimum they own you for 6 years.:blink:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

joebanana said:


> So, basically, they want you to enlist. At the minimum they own you for 6 years.:blink:


Look at it as job security.

Depends on the payscale, it could be a great endeavor.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I have worked with more FED electricians than you can wave your Johnson at and for the most part.

Few if any work 
When they do work it is not to the level of open shop or union electricians.


NOW that is a blanket statement and not met to cover 100% of all fed electricians just my experience. I do now some excellent fed electricians and they bitch constantly about the slackers and how they cannot get rid of them.

The general rule is 40% carry 60% and few contractors want to hire any that for what ever reason leave the government.

BUT the benefits and job security are a major reason some Union electricians go into the government.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Check the security clearance requirements just so you know them before you pursue this. An SF86 is 127 pages long. Fill it out ahead of time, because it will need to be inputted by you into a website most likely. Tell the whole truth. Don't fudge anything.

My mistake SF86
https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86-non508.pdf


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

brian john said:


> I have worked with more FED electricians than you can wave your Johnson at and for the most part.
> 
> Few if any work
> When they do work it is not to the level of open shop or union electricians.
> ...


Having been on many government jobs and needing the electrical staffing on site to arrange access and sometimes equipment or materials I've dealt with many of them.

I always wondered how so many of them would have the free time to stop by jobs and just gab and drink coffee for hours on end but it wasn't my place to question their schedules.

Some of the guys were far more than bulb changers but they were the minority.


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## Rsanchez82 (Sep 14, 2017)

I was thinking about applying to Los Alamos National Labs for my apprenticeship I know that I am going to need to get my q-clearance my ol lady works there the benefits are like none other honestly she makes enough that I don't have to work I just stay at home with our son but I am getting restless and my pride is getting to me I need to get back to work.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

There's nothing quite like the human nature of getting a leg up via stompin' down the competition. 

ergo>>>

*The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons*. Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)


~CS~


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've done contracting work on many military installations and worked along with many Federal employees and heard their side on the pluses and minuses of their employment.
> 
> Location is a huge factor.


There is a really weird thing with federal scale. It is adjusted based on the cost of living in the area of the installation. So the same job in Arkansas might pay a lot less than it does in San Francisco. As you'd expect. 

The beautiful thing is, as is always the case with the federal system, it gets worked. There are low cost of living areas that are lumped in with nearby high cost of living areas for the scale adjustment. (It's not an accident - it's political give and take.) 

So there are federal jobs in east bumble**** that pay big city wages. It tends to be a pretty well kept secret! If you can find your way to one of these it's a HUGE payoff. 

(Think about this when you think about socializing things in the US...)


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> There is a really weird thing with federal scale. It is adjusted based on the cost of living in the area of the installation. So the same job in Arkansas might pay a lot less than it does in San Francisco. As you'd expect.
> 
> The beautiful thing is, as is always the case with the federal system, it gets worked. There are low cost of living areas that are lumped in with nearby high cost of living areas for the scale adjustment. (It's not an accident - it's political give and take.)
> 
> ...


Funny how some of the smallest facilities in decent little areas pay the best, especially when the workload is the lightest due to type of building and age.

Often seems the guys with the most real labor intensive jobs in old facilities get paid the least.

Ft Hancock, NJ is one such example of poor wages for work involved.

The base is like ancient (pre-civil war) and the buildings are beyond antique, every repair job is major, the pay rate there for say a carpenter is far less than that for a carpenter in Ft Huachuca, AZ with a much easier workload.


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## socaldreamer (Sep 9, 2017)

Wow I really need to apply for a FED apprenticeship! It would be great for older guys like myself. The union is hard to get into and I need to broaden my options. How do you find these apprentice opportunities with Uncle Sam?


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