# As long as we're talking about bonding plastic...



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

WTF are the little posts for in the back of these boxes??


----------



## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

A floating ground :lol:no say me friend...:no:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

That is where you put the green screw.. :laughing:


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

ce2two said:


> A floating ground :lol:no say me friend...:no:


It's been a while since Spanish, but I believe it would be "No se."

It's actually a waste of PVC, you'd think they wouldn't manufacture waste like that.


----------



## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

erics37 said:


> It's been a while since Spanish, but I believe it would be "No se."
> 
> It's actually a waste of PVC, you'd think they wouldn't manufacture waste like that.


That was my lazy spanish:laughing:


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> That is where you put the green screw.. :laughing:


 


















Like this?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> View attachment 11554
> 
> 
> View attachment 11555
> ...


Yep.. you never know when an inspector will be looking for it.. :laughing:


----------



## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> View attachment 11554
> 
> 
> View attachment 11555
> ...


----------



## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

:laughing:

McClary, i think i remember those pics (green screw in plastic) from a while back.


Could those posts be part of an injection mold, or...?


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

3xdad said:


> Could those posts be part of an injection mold, or...?


That's what I thought, but it's the perfect size for a 10-32 ground screw.


----------



## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

Never seen pvc boxes like that before.All the ones I've used have a green screw on that post with a wire jumper attaching to one of the device mounting holes,which have brass threaded inserts for the outlet or switch screws.I'm quite sure those would'nt be legal in Canada.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

crosport said:


> Never seen pvc boxes like that before.All the ones I've used have a green screw on that post with a wire jumper attaching to one of the device mounting holes,which have brass threaded inserts for the outlet or switch screws.I'm quite sure those would'nt be legal in Canada.


So Canadian PVC boxes have bonding means? :blink:


----------



## Electrical Student (Jun 6, 2011)

Its a grounding lug. Just a place to splice together multible grounds.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Electrical Student said:


> Its a grounding lug. Just a place to splice together multible grounds.


Jamming multiple grounds under one screw is a terrible way to splice. I splice grounds with wire nuts. Some people use crimp sleeves. Never a bonding terminal in a box. I run a single pigtail to it and that's it.

Oh, and only on metal boxes :laughing:

Dammit I'm gonna have to call Carlon or something and figure this out


----------



## That's It? (Aug 31, 2011)

erics37 said:


> It's been a while since Spanish, but I believe it would be "No se."
> 
> It's actually a waste of PVC, you'd think they wouldn't manufacture waste like that.


Why do you get one extra screw with duplex/toggle switch plates? It costs less to waste the plastic than it does to take it out.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

That's It? said:


> Why do you get one extra screw with duplex/toggle switch plates? It costs less to waste the plastic than it does to take it out.


I use Leviton devices and plates, they don't have extra screws


----------



## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

erics37 said:


> So Canadian PVC boxes have bonding means? :blink:


 It's meant to bond the strap on the device that's installed in the box.If you had a switch in a box like the one pictured the switch frame would'nt be bonded.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

crosport said:


> It's meant to bond the strap on the device that's installed in the box.If you had a switch in a box like the one pictured the switch frame would'nt be bonded.


Yeah dude but you don't bond device yokes to plastic. You bond them to an EGC. As in, take the green or bare wire and connect it to the green screw on the switch. If it's in a metal box, you bond it to that as well. A plastic box doesn't need to be bonded, and in fact, connecting a wire to it does absolutely nothing.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

3xdad said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Could those posts be part of an injection mold, or...?


It is and some case they keep the same mold for both die cast metal and plastique verison so that way they keep the cost down as well.

By keeping one master mold and make few mold copys for it so they can use in production.

Merci,
Marc


----------



## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Yeah dude but you don't bond device yokes to plastic. You bond them to an EGC. As in, take the green or bare wire and connect it to the green screw on the switch. If it's in a metal box, you bond it to that as well. A plastic box doesn't need to be bonded, and in fact, connecting a wire to it does absolutely nothing.


No effin kidding DUDE! Are you 15 year old a skater dude? It's not meant to bond the box.Obviously our codes are different.Not all switches here have a bonding screw-for instance a 2 pole 15 or 20 I use for pumps.Those boxes are made for both markets they just have to add the screw to meet our requirements.I just think those are pretty chinsey with out the brass threaded inserts.Kinda like those crappy blue carlton boxes you guys have in the U.S.All our plastic boxes have a green screw.I'm sure glad you know that plastic does'nt need bonding! Rule 10-404(1)(a)Where a non-metallic wiring system is used,a bonding connection shall be provided at all outlets.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

crosport said:


> No effin kidding DUDE! Are you 15 year old a skater dude? It's not meant to bond the box.Obviously our codes are different.Not all switches here have a bonding screw-for instance a 2 pole 15 or 20 I use for pumps.Those boxes are made for both markets they just have to add the screw to meet our requirements.I just think those are pretty chinsey with out the brass threaded inserts.Kinda like those crappy blue carlton boxes you guys have in the U.S.


:laughing:

So let me get this straight. If you have a switch that doesn't have a bonding screw, like you mentioned, then you do what? You land the ground wire on a screw mounted in a plastic box? That gets right back to WTF is the purpose of that?


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Its obviously not intended for bonding.... 

post 6000... Damn internet..


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

crosport said:


> No effin kidding DUDE! Are you 15 year old a skater dude? It's not meant to bond the box.Obviously our codes are different.Not all switches here have a bonding screw-for instance a 2 pole 15 or 20 I use for pumps.Those boxes are made for both markets they just have to add the screw to meet our requirements.I just think those are pretty chinsey with out the brass threaded inserts.Kinda like those crappy blue carlton boxes you guys have in the U.S.All our plastic boxes have a green screw.I'm sure glad you know that plastic does'nt need bonding! Rule 10-404(1)(a)Where a non-metallic wiring system is used,a bonding connection shall be provided at all outlets.


 What?????????:blink:


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

crosport said:


> Rule 10-404(1)(a)Where a non-metallic wiring system is used,a bonding connection shall be provided at all outlets.


That is one of the most ******** snippets of code I've ever read :blink:


----------



## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

At no time have I said that plastic needs to be bonded.You fools-the ground wire from the line in goes to the green screw on the p.v.c. box.The factory installed bonding jumper goes from that same screw to the threaded brass insert that the device screw threads into therfore bonding the yoke of the device.Just because there is a screw on any other plastic box does'nt mean it's bonding the plastic.Scepter makes and sells thousands of p.v.c. boxes set up like this.You should maybe call them and say stop making them like this, it's all wrong.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

crosport said:


> At no time have I said that plastic needs to be bonded.You fool-the ground wire from the line in goes to the green screw on the p.v.c. box.The factory installed bonding jumper goes from that same screw to the threaded brass insert that the device screw threads into therfore bonding the yoke of the device.Just because there is a screw on any other plastic box does'nt mean it's bonding the plastic.


Well why the hell can't the ground wire coming into the box hook directly to the yoke screw? And if you have to bond the yoke then why do you get switches with no ground terminal?


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

lol I'm totally envisioning this guy sitting at his computer furiously hammering away on his keyboard and pulling his hair out trying to get me to comprehend why a plastic box has a spot for a bonding screw :laughing:


----------



## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Well why the hell can't the ground wire coming into the box hook directly to the yoke screw? And if you have to bond the yoke then why do you get switches with no ground terminal?


On a metal box the yoke would be bonded through the screws to that box.Some switches here have no bonding screw so please tell me how you would bond that device to a p.v.c. box like the one pictured.We don't require that all yokes have a bonding screw.That is just the reasoning behind the way our boxes are made.What if a live wire touched up against the switch whose yoke did not have a bond screw and was not bonded through the mounting screws.Get it now?


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

So the short answer is that in Canada every box has to be capable of grounding the device yoke?

-John


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

crosport said:


> On a metal box the yoke would be bonded through the screws to that box.Some switches here have no bonding screw so please tell me how you would bond that device to a p.v.c. box like the one pictured.We don't require that all yokes have a bonding screw.That is just the reasoning behind the way our boxes are made.What if a live wire touched up against the switch whose yoke did not have a bond screw and was not bonded through the mounting screws.Get it now?


No I see what you're saying, but it seems to me like your code is backwards.

Instead of requiring every box to have a means by which to bond device yokes that may themselves not have a bonding means, why not just require all device yokes to have a bonding means?

Are you perhaps referring to a self-bonding switch like this? If you used those, and they didn't have the green ground screw, then I can understand a bonding jumper for the device screw. But all the self-bonding devices I've used always have a green screw as well.


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

crosport said:


> At no time have I said that plastic needs to be bonded.You fools-the ground wire from the line in goes to the green screw on the p.v.c. box.The factory installed bonding jumper goes from that same screw to the threaded brass insert that the device screw threads into therfore bonding the yoke of the device.Just because there is a screw on any other plastic box does'nt mean it's bonding the plastic.Scepter makes and sells thousands of p.v.c. boxes set up like this.You should maybe call them and say stop making them like this, it's all wrong.


 So I take it you're talking about something like a dimmer switch that has a green wire molded into it, right? If so then why wouldn't you just use a wirenut like the rest of the civilized world?


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> So I take it you're talking about something like a dimmer switch that has a green wire molded into it, right? If so then why wouldn't you just use a wirenut like the rest of the civilized world?


I think I see what he's getting at.... if you have a device with no ground terminal, the yoke still needs to be bonded. But if you're mounting it in a PVC box, then you would need to somehow attach your EGC to the device screw (like with a crimp fork terminal or some such). That might not allow the device to seat properly, or to be bonded adequately, or whatever... so in a PVC box, the factory puts in a jumper from the device screw hole to the little mystery post, so you just have to land your EGC on the box bonding post.

It seems like a really ******** way to bond a device, compared to simply requiring a bonding terminal on the device. Furthermore, I wouldn't trust a device screw to maintain good contact with the yoke forever, they can get loose and stuff. I'm sure we've all dealt with wiggly wobbly switches and plugs. If it had the self-bonding clip thing like in the picture I posted, then I'd be okay with it I guess.


----------



## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

erics37 said:


> I think I see what he's getting at.... if you have a device with no ground terminal, the yoke still needs to be bonded. But if you're mounting it in a PVC box, then you would need to somehow attach your EGC to the device screw (like with a crimp fork terminal or some such). That might not allow the device to seat properly, or to be bonded adequately, or whatever... so in a PVC box, the factory puts in a jumper from the device screw hole to the little mystery post, so you just have to land your EGC on the box bonding post.
> 
> It seems like a really ******** way to bond a device, compared to simply requiring a bonding terminal on the device. Furthermore, I wouldn't trust a device screw to maintain good contact with the yoke forever, they can get loose and stuff. I'm sure we've all dealt with wiggly wobbly switches and plugs. If it had the self-bonding clip thing like in the picture I posted, then I'd be okay with it I guess.


 You certainly do a better job at explaining what I'm trying to say than I do.Thanx!


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

crosport said:


> You certainly do a better job at explaining what I'm trying to say than I do.Thanx!


Would you like me to write a code proposal to your code-making agency describing to them how ******** 10-404(1)(a) is?


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

eh--it is what it is. For whatever reason, the majority of the switches up here do not have a ground screw. For me, it is no more work than usual to land the bonding conductor under a screw in a device box. Big deal.


----------

