# Spa panel and hot tub



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Do you own a code book? You might want to review art 680. Romex is not allowed to feed your spa or pool. 

680.21 Motors.
(A) Wiring Methods. The wiring to a pool motor shall comply
with (A)(1) unless modified for specific circumstances by
(A)(2), (A)(3), (A)(4), or (A)(5).
(1) General. The branch circuits for pool-associated motors
shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate
metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, reinforced
thermosetting resin conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the
location. Other wiring methods and materials shall be permitted
in specific locations or applications as covered in
this section. Any wiring method employed shall contain an
insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in
accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.
(2) On or Within Buildings


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I disagree. If this is an outdoor tub then the wiring inside the building can be the wiring methods of chapter 3--680.42(C).

I would still pipe across the finished area of a home.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Let me clarify-- some tubs require a full size egc so in that case you must pipe the circuit. If not then usually a 6/3 nm with ground does the trick to the outside disco. From there you need to use PVC or other approved methods. You should read 680-- you also need a bonding grid-- equipotential bonding-- 680.26


----------



## besc (May 16, 2010)

OK all you early birds. Its 5 am here. I was going to use Rain Tight Flex from the spa panel to the hot tub. All the romex is indoors in the garage and the attic. From the panel to the tub is 15ft. It would be tucked away and hidden. My code book is at work so dont have it handy. How does that sound? Mike.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Flex cannot be more than 6 feet.....


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I disagree. If this is an outdoor tub then the wiring inside the building can be the wiring methods of chapter 3--680.42(C).
> 
> I would still pipe across the finished area of a home.





That only applies to hot tubs and not pools correct?


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Flex cannot be more than 6 feet.....




Can't be used or can't be unsupported for more than 6ft?:blink:

NEVER MIND!!! I see this now...(1) Flexible Conduit. Liquidtight flexible metal conduit or
liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted
in lengths of not more than 1.8 m (6 ft) external to the spa
or hot tub enclosure in addition to the length needed within
the enclosure to make the electrical connection.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> That only applies to hot tubs and not pools correct?


That is correct.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is correct.



I've done 4 pools in the last few months but its been a year or so since I did a hot tub.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I've done 4 pools in the last few months but its been a year or so since I did a hot tub.


Remember NM cable is only allowed, for hot tubs, in the interior of single family dwellings or structures associated with the dwelling.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Remember NM cable is only allowed, for hot tubs, in the interior of single family dwellings or structures associated with the dwelling.



Yea I was thinking it was not allowed at all. We always run pvc. Had pool on the brain. Thanks Dennis


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I disagree. If this is an outdoor tub then the wiring inside the building can be the wiring methods of chapter 3--680.42(C).
> 
> I would still pipe across the finished area of a home.





jwjrw said:


> That only applies to hot tubs and not pools correct?





Dennis Alwon said:


> That is correct.





Dennis Alwon said:


> Remember NM cable is only allowed, for hot tubs, in the interior of single family dwellings or structures associated with the dwelling.





jwjrw said:


> Yea I was thinking it was not allowed at all. We always run pvc. Had pool on the brain. Thanks Dennis



I don't have the book in front of me but this applies to pools as well. I see many pool circuits run needlessly in PVC.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> I don't have the book in front of me but this applies to pools as well. I see many pool circuits run needlessly in PVC.



680.21 Motors.
(A) Wiring Methods. The wiring to a pool motor shall comply
with (A)(1) unless modified for specific circumstances by
(A)(2), (A)(3), (A)(4), or (A)(5).


I don't see the same exception.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> 680.21 Motors.
> (A) Wiring Methods. The wiring to a pool motor shall comply
> with (A)(1) unless modified for specific circumstances by
> (A)(2), (A)(3), (A)(4), or (A)(5).
> ...


When you said pool I assumed you meant pool lights-- yes they must be in conduit but the pool motor can be chapter 3- same as Tub.. 680.21(A)(4)


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> When you said pool I assumed you meant pool lights-- yes they must be in conduit but the pool motor can be chapter 3- same as Tub.. 680.21(A)(4)



I looked over that exception......:whistling2: More than one time....:whistling2: :blink: 

I learned something new. Thanks Scott and Dennis.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

All I can think about is a guy who killed himself and his girlfriend a couple years back in WA in a hot tub he'd wired. I think he was some type of construction contractor?


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*?*



Dennis Alwon said:


> Flex cannot be more than 6 feet.....


If that's true then I have a question. How can you make flex 6ft or under if spa box needs to be 5 to 15 away from spa ??

Just sayin


----------



## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

Cletis said:


> If that's true then I have a question. How can you make flex 6ft or under if spa box needs to be 5 to 15 away from spa ??
> 
> Just sayin


Rigid PVC from the disconnect to the tub, and a short piece of flex to get inside and to the panel


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> If that's true then I have a question. How can you make flex 6ft or under if spa box needs to be 5 to 15 away from spa ??
> 
> Just sayin


I generally run PVC right up and into the tub bottom and then use a female connector and switch to LNMFC.


----------



## johnsmithabe (May 3, 2011)

complicated description.


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Tidbit*



Dennis Alwon said:


> I generally run PVC right up and into the tub bottom and then use a female connector and switch to LNMFC.


got it. Another thing that's not enforced around here so I "assumed" it was ok. Most of my LNMFC whips were usually about 10ft for spa's. Never been turned down in 15yrs of doing it that way. I guess Ill switch now and get into a good habit. 

Thanks


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

johnsmithabe said:


> complicated description.


If you need more explanation then ask....


----------



## besc (May 16, 2010)

Well. Looking through the code book and reading all of these posts I see what I need to do. But I was wandering if there was a trick to getting through the insulation from the panel surface mounted to the outside of the garage to the inside of the garage? and also what kind of straps and other anchoring methods are good? I know this seems somewhat trivial campared to all the previous posts. Mike.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

besc said:


> Well. Looking through the code book and reading all of these posts I see what I need to do. But I was wandering if there was a trick to getting through the insulation from the panel surface mounted to the outside of the garage to the inside of the garage? and also what kind of straps and other anchoring methods are good? I know this seems somewhat trivial campared to all the previous posts. Mike.


You could just drill thru the back of the panel with the size KO that you need and mount the disco right on the other side. Not sure of the situation you have.


----------



## Jsmit319 (Sep 23, 2010)

Been awhile since I posted here.....please remember the disconnect (emergency shut-off) required to be within 5' of the spa and readily accessible and that metal surfaces within 5' of the spa must be bonded ( fencing, gutters, etc.).


----------

