# Anti-short bushings are not for MC cable.



## Deepwater Horizon (Jan 29, 2013)

To add to this, proper installation of the cable also includes "squaring" the end of the cable by removing any sharp edges left by a rotosplit, *****, hacksaw, etc.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Deepwater Horizon said:


> To add to this, proper installation of the cable also includes "squaring" the end of the cable by removing any sharp edges left by a rotosplit, *****, hacksaw, etc.


 I do that with flex, and I often find myself thinking a bushing would be faster and better.

Would I install without red-heads if I didn't have them? Sure. But I think bushings are cheap insurance.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I slip them on around the conductors then cut the plastic covering off,just to use them.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

scrypps said:


> I love being on a job, opening a roll of MC, and then tossing the bag of red-jackets into one of my bags somewhere. Totally ignoring one of the most tedious processes that electrician's think they have to do every day.
> 
> They don't even fit right, do you put them inside the plastic sleeve or outside? Someone will inevitably come along and ask me where they are, and I don't even argue, I don't say I haven't been putting them on. If I have connectors that are listed for MC cable (and it doesn't take long to learn which ten or so of those they are), then I don't have to do it.
> 
> ...


Required or not , I don't find it to be a big deal to put them in , since they're nice enough to include them with the cable . Added Insurance against blown up cable .


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I use them on MC but I'm a real rebel.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Well if you got the wrong size they don't fit right. If ya got the right size they fit perfectly. I put them inside the plastic sleeve while the plastic is still long before I cut it. After the red head is in under the plastic then I cut the plastic with my side cutters in the way to leave 3/4 inch of plastic coming out of the red head. Not something I would consider tedious but pt taken


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

What is MC cable? is that that flex with the wires already inside?


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

How long have you not been installing the bushings?
How many MC jobs do you do?

How many times have you had to find a short from a improperly terminated MC cable?


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## adamv7010 (Mar 21, 2011)

No need to use them...mc cable is so easy to repull conductors in ha


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Bbsound said:


> How many times have you had to find a short from a improperly terminated MC cable?


I personally have never seen a short on an improperly terminate MC cable, then again since the anti-short bushing is not designed for MC cable it is the inclusion of the anti-short bushing which makes the installation improper.

Using a properly listed connector properly will not result in shorted cables. Making up things about things are installed, just might.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

eejack said:


> I personally have never seen a short on an improperly terminate MC cable, then again since the anti-short bushing is not designed for MC cable it is the inclusion of the anti-short bushing which makes the installation improper.
> 
> Using a properly listed connector properly will not result in shorted cables. Making up things about things are installed, just might.


Code says you don't have to use them but the code is the minimum standard. I'm a bushing user. It's kind of like putting teflon tape and thread sealer on a pipe joint. Insurance!:thumbsup:


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

Bbsound said:


> How long have you not been installing the bushings?
> How many MC jobs do you do?
> 
> How many times have you had to find a short from a improperly terminated MC cable?


Saw an old timer have a short in a circuit with some mc inside a wall somewhere. Blasted the breaker on and off until it cleared itself. My mind was blown. Crafty old bastard surprised me. So I use them snap ins as much as possible.
These guys.:thumbup:








The plastic at the opening is the bushing.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

wendon said:


> Code says you don't have to use them but the code is the minimum standard. I'm a bushing user. It's kind of like putting teflon tape and thread sealer on a pipe joint. Insurance!:thumbsup:


Sometimes too much makes no sense. Like wearing two condoms.

I have seen a handful of instances where between the mylar tape and the plastic anti-short a cable will be installed poorly. I don't wish to blame the anti-short, but it adds an unneeded step, a bit of length and an unwarranted illusion of safety.

Or to use your example...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_seal_tape said:


> Over-use, or mis-application of thread tape may be a hazard. An excess amount of tape can prevent mating threads from fully engaging, therefore reducing the shear point of the threads. The use of thread-seal tape in addition to a pipe dope compound can also be dangerous, because it can become too much between the flanks of the threads. As the tape material is so soft, excess or overhangs may easily break off and form a foreign body contaminant that could jam a valve seat etc.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

If someone is talented enough to screw up a cable termination by installing a bushing, then there's definitely no hope for them without the bushing.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

eejack said:


> Sometimes too much makes no sense. Like wearing two condoms.
> 
> I have seen a handful of instances where between the mylar tape and the plastic anti-short a cable will be installed poorly. I don't wish to blame the anti-short, but it adds an unneeded step, a bit of length and an unwarranted illusion of safety.
> 
> Or to use your example...


Use teflon tape AND pipe dope and you'll seldom have a leak. Done it for years. :whistling2:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

wendon said:


> I use anti shorts, put the grounds down, and usually put the screw slots horizontal!:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> What is MC cable? is that that flex with the wires already inside?


I'm sure you have seen it while painting with your white pants on :yes:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I do not paint and we run real conduit where I live. MC is for little girls.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

weasel wire


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## Hotlegs (Oct 9, 2011)

I thought those were a bag of snacks that come with the cable, I've been eating them.


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> MC is for little girls.


And white pants are for painters.
How do you fish walls? Do you pipe all your lights in?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

HawkShock said:


> And white pants are for painters.
> How do you fish walls? Do you pipe all your lights in?


ive piped cans together more than a few times. it sucks


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> MC is for little girls.


Now youve gone too far!!:jester:


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> ive piped cans together more than a few times. it sucks


I have as well, even did piped individually to drop in lights one time.... measuring to air is tough. Tougher yet was strapping. Tougher yet is popping the lights out of the grid. Tougher yet is getting the back cover off. (Was new, was asked to do so by questionable supervisor, did as told.) Never again.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Two pages and no one brought up NEMA Bulletin 90 yet?


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## BananaSeeds (Jan 27, 2013)

The electrical lady at home depot told me I can't sleeve romex inside of non-metallic seal-tite.... because it will burn up and start a fire!!

Who does she think she is?? Turns out, she's 62, and hasn't had a boyfriend in over ten years... keep looking lady, not interested! :thumbup:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

BananaSeeds said:


> The electrical lady at home depot told me I can't sleeve romex inside of non-metallic seal-tite.... because it will burn up and start a fire!!
> 
> Who does she think she is?? Turns out, she's 62, and hasn't had a boyfriend in over ten years... keep looking lady, not interested! :thumbup:


You should introduce her to deepwater horizon. He hasn't had a girlfriend in, well, like forever.


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## Deepwater Horizon (Jan 29, 2013)

knowshorts said:


> You should introduce her to deepwater horizon. He hasn't had a girlfriend in, well, like forever.


According to Troll1971, I'm engaged.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Not using anti shorts makes you more of a hack then those of you that use SE!!!! :yes:


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## madrone48 (Aug 15, 2012)

I use them when my journeyman asks me to, but I find it hilarious when a roll of MC comes with a bag of maybe 12 anti-shorts. 6 terminations max on that 100' roll, ok?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

scrypps said:


> I love being on a job, opening a roll of MC, and then tossing the bag of red-jackets into one of my bags somewhere. Totally ignoring one of the most tedious processes that electrician's think they have to do every day.


Have you ever had to repair MC cables that have blown up at the connector in finished walls?

It sucks, it can cost the company much, much more than the time required to stuff an anti-short on the cable termination.

But yes you are 100% correct, it is not required. The NEC will allow you to shoot yourself in the foot. :thumbsup:


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

What?:blink: Why were my posts "disappeared?" I didn't say anything profane! Does this site run through Gitmo, where the secret guy has his finger on the secret delete button? GEEZ!:no:


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Hotlegs said:


> I thought those were a bag of snacks that come with the cable, I've been eating them.


Do they come in different flavors??


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I wouldn't be surprised if I've ran over 100,000 feet of MC over the years. I do to use the anti-shorts. I have never once seen an issue at the connection on any of my work or troubleshooting other peoples work.


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## Hotlegs (Oct 9, 2011)

oldtimer said:


> Do they come in different flavors??


Ive only found Cool ranch and habanero ass burn in my area.


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## Hotlegs (Oct 9, 2011)

I think the anti short bushings save some people. The installer will mangle up the wire insulation where they cut the metal sheathing off and then slip the anti short bushing over it and problem solved. 

I was on one job where about every other whip was blowing up at the connector. Come to find out the ones that blew up didn't have the bushing installed . The wires insulation was all sliced up from the apprentice that was cutting the sheathing with tin snips . 

I use them only because inspectors will look in the connector hole to see if the red bushing is there or not. There are some that will red tag a job with no red devils.


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## FlatRateGator (Feb 13, 2013)

Celtic said:


> Two pages and no one brought up NEMA Bulletin 90 yet?


It's 'cuz no one cared. Most of us already knew it, so it didn't come up.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Did a job today and they were too small leaving a small gap so I just cleaned up the mc the best I could and put two of them in there and taped them to keep them from moving.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Two pages and no one brought up NEMA Bulletin 90 yet?


We dont argue facts here anymore.


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## Czap (Jan 29, 2013)

HawkShock said:


> Saw an old timer have a short in a circuit with some mc inside a wall somewhere. Blasted the breaker on and off until it cleared itself. My mind was blown. Crafty old bastard surprised me. So I use them snap ins as much as possible.
> These guys.:thumbup:
> 
> 
> ...



My thought exactly. Ive never seen square ones though. So when people put in reliance xfer panels you dont use the red bushng that comes with the 1' flex?


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## holmeselectric9 (Feb 18, 2013)

When I first started I would bend mc open, snip off mc with *****, beat it a little until smooth. shove plastic wrapping from around the wire in the hole a little, shove bushing in, wrap with black tape. Voila! Ive never heard of any shorts yet!


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## Czap (Jan 29, 2013)

Pretty bad. Isn't everything in NY MC too.

Lets just knock a KO out half way on a service and let it hold the NMC while were at it:thumbup:


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## willie838 (Jan 31, 2013)

forget that noise. i'm still going to use them.


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## holmeselectric9 (Feb 18, 2013)

Czap said:


> Pretty bad. Isn't everything in NY MC too.
> 
> Lets just knock a KO out half way on a service and let it hold the NMC while were at it:thumbup:


Its ok, the ground to bind the box will keep the tension off.It'll be ok.

Mostly everything commercial at least in this jurisdiction.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Better double check that thinking in certain parts of the Bay Area. There are a number of Inspectors in SF that will call you on that. They basically require them on MC-Cable installations.:thumbsup:


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## owl (Oct 31, 2012)

What about when the job runs out of anti-shorts And people start homebrewing them (aka tape). n


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

owl said:


> What about when the job runs out of anti-shorts And people start homebrewing them (aka tape). n


Then someone gets their butt kicked for not making sure there are enough supplies and they go get more.


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

Switched said:


> Better double check that thinking in certain parts of the Bay Area. There are a number of Inspectors in SF that will call you on that. They basically require them on MC-Cable installations.:thumbsup:


And what code section are they quoting? It's not required by the NEC, that being said, I use them.


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

Personaly I always fill a half inch of the mc with poured rubber before filing the metal edge to a curve of not less than 13 microns uniformity. I then recoat all conductors with a layer of aluminun that I hook up to a ground fault detection system with a ul compliant double reduncay dialer. I of course then apply a double coat of pvc insulation over that. After that all metal surfaces in the box are then coated with truck bed liner. What are theese red hats you hacks are using?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Norcal said:


> And what code section are they quoting? It's not required by the NEC, that being said, I use them.


SF has their own code sections, additions and amendments to the NEC and the State adopted Code. You can download off of the city's website.


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## NJWVUGrad (May 12, 2011)

I've been lectured on the MC Red-Head thing by countless JW while sitting around break time shooting the sh*t. 

They always act like they've stumbled upon some unknown gem of information that no one ever heard before. I usually let them rant for a while then tell them on my jobs they use them or tell their story walking.

I find that guys who cut corners (my opinion) on stuff like red-heads are usually slacking off elsewhere.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Bbsound said:


> How long have you not been installing the bushings?
> How many MC jobs do you do?
> 
> How many times have you had to find a short from a improperly terminated MC cable?


Actually not installing the bushings make it real easy to find the shorts.


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## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

Never had to find a shorted mc termination. Have used red sleeves on every termination I have ever made. Zero fails, so i guess my elephant repellant is working.:thumbup:


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

danickstr said:


> Never had to find a shorted mc termination. Have used red sleeves on every termination I have ever made. Zero fails, so i guess my elephant repellant is working.:thumbup:


Yeah...I always figured that's what the little cages in single MC connectors were for. Holding 'em in. I can't imagine not using them either. I'd feel naked without 'em.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

I tried to buy extra bushings at a SH and they tossed half a doz. bags at me, for free. Said nobody wanted them


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

I put plastic bushings on the connectors too. They are not required either.

I don't loose sleep over it. It's covered in the costs.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

NJWVUGrad said:


> I've been lectured on the MC Red-Head thing by countless JW while sitting around break time shooting the sh*t.
> 
> They always act like they've stumbled upon some unknown gem of information that no one ever heard before. I usually let them rant for a while then tell them on my jobs they use them or tell their story walking.
> 
> I find that guys who cut corners (my opinion) on stuff like red-heads are usually slacking off elsewhere.


when the question is:
are they required by code?
my answer is NO.

when the question is:
do you require them?
my answer is YES.

there is big difference in those questions....and, likewise, in my answer.

the key is understanding the question.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

Think I'll use 'em to show my commercial customers the difference between an $85hr shop and a $200hr shop...:laughing:


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

They are not necessary


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> They are not necessary


Not in Hackville USA...:whistling2::laughing:


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## copperchopper (Feb 20, 2013)

I did a 4 story medical building last year, all with mc cable and all we use is the arlington connectors that do not need anti-shorts. Why? its all about SPEED these days. Theres no way a guy using a hacksaw and installing anti shorts can keep up with me using a roto tool from greenlee and no anti shorts.thats why I am still working and havent ever been liad-off and those guys now work at Down-the -Road Electric.....:laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbup:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

copperchopper said:


> *I did a 4 story medical building last year, all with mc cable* and all we use is the arlington connectors that do not need anti-shorts. Why? its all about SPEED these days. Theres no way a guy using a hacksaw and installing anti shorts can keep up with me using a roto tool from greenlee and no anti shorts.thats why I am still working and havent ever been liad-off and those guys now work at Down-the -Road Electric.....:laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbup:


and thats why i hate MC cable


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## Itsonlywes (Sep 23, 2012)

Dnkldorf said:


> I put plastic bushings on the connectors too. They are not required either.
> 
> I don't loose sleep over it. It's covered in the costs.


As do I. I know that plastic bushings are not required for pipe connectors under 1" I believe but I use them on every one from 1/2" on up what can it hurt. Same with red heads it takes no time to put them in mc cable and is just a added precaution and just good practice


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Itsonlywes said:


> As do I. I know that plastic bushings are not required for pipe connectors under 1" I believe but I use them on every one from 1/2" on up what can it hurt. Same with red heads it takes no time to put them in mc cable and is just a added precaution and just good practice


the size of the pipes got nothing to do with it, unless its a local thing. its for and conduit containing conductors 4 or larger. but i agree, i put bushing on everything


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> the size of the pipes got nothing to do with it, unless its a local thing. its for and conduit containing conductors 4 or larger. but i agree, i put bushing on everything


The type of pipe matters!!!
Any size of RMC or RNMC requires bushings.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Bbsound said:


> The type of pipe matters!!!
> Any size of RMC or RNMC requires bushings.


type-yes
size-no

but good call nonetheles


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> and thats why i hate MC cable


That's why we laugh at you. :laughing:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> That's why we laugh at you. :laughing:


i thought it was because everyone here genuinely likes me :blink::blink:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

copperchopper said:


> I did a 4 story medical building last year, all with mc cable and all we use is the arlington connectors that do not need anti-shorts. Why? its all about SPEED these days. Theres no way a guy using a hacksaw and installing anti shorts can keep up with me using a roto tool from greenlee and no anti shorts.thats why I am still working and havent ever been liad-off and those guys now work at Down-the -Road Electric.....:laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbup:


What about a guy like me that uses a roto tool AND anti-short bushings? On your mark, get set.......:laughing::laughing:


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

kennydmeek said:


> Not in Hackville USA...:whistling2::laughing:


Or Just strip it correctly and you won't damage the insulation


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

A friend of mine only wishes he wore two condoms that one time. Now he's stuck with her and a autistic kid.


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## Ericf29 (Jan 30, 2013)

copperchopper said:


> I did a 4 story medical building last year, all with mc cable and all we use is the arlington connectors that do not need anti-shorts. Why? its all about SPEED these days. Theres no way a guy using a hacksaw and installing anti shorts can keep up with me using a roto tool from greenlee and no anti shorts.thats why I am still working and havent ever been liad-off and those guys now work at Down-the -Road Electric.....:laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbup:


Wow you must be the man! So fast! I use a roto split and anti shorts. I may not always keep a job cause there are guys like you always on someone's TIP


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## sparkitright (Jan 27, 2013)

i overkill with red devils...kiss my ass inspector i know work is slow..hahahaha


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

sparkitright said:


> i overkill with red devils...kiss my ass inspector i know work is slow..hahahaha


Oh, so now the inspector can kiss your ass... In the pull box post, you were all prepared to bend over and take it in the wazoo for some fake codes


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## The Green Hornet (Mar 31, 2011)

I sling alot of mc and don't use em. Sometimes just for kicks or boredom I'll try and use up a bag

It don't take long to twist one in at all. 

Strip mc with dikes with a quickness

One time I did kill a os switch from a short due to leaving a sharp edge when shoving in the mc connector. 1 out of 10000 ain't bad.


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## sparkitright (Jan 27, 2013)

InPhase277 said:


> Oh, so now the inspector can kiss your ass... In the pull box post, you were all prepared to bend over and take it in the wazoo for some fake codes


hahaha very funny...i can say kiss my ass without saying verbaly...so put a measuring tape to your 3/8 straps and make shure your mc is strapped within a foot of 1900 box chump b4 the inspector wants to take advantage of your smart mouth ass...lol


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