# different gates to job site



## TorchRed (Dec 5, 2008)

what is the point to having a different entrance for union and non union employees on the same job site? we all park right next to each other lol ????:hammer::hammer::hammer:


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

if there is a strike you will find out. just be sure to always use the correct gate.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

TorchRed said:


> what is the point to having a different entrance for union and non union employees on the same job site? we all park right next to each other lol ????:hammer::hammer::hammer:


Stupid BS.

Where I am if we have to gates the union guys are prohibited from picketing or blocking the merit shop gate. 

BUT do not let any merit shop guys use the union gate as that gives the union the green light to block the merit gate.

I hate that crap.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

yeah, and how are you going to stop a salt from using the wrong gate ? therein lies the real BS.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

TorchRed said:


> what is the point to having a different entrance for union and non union employees on the same job site? we all park right next to each other lol ????:hammer::hammer::hammer:


It's nothing more than a self-fulfilling ego trip. The union entrance is usually paved, where the non-union is gravel. If they're temporary gates, then the union gets gravel and the non-union doesn't. And if it snows, the union entrance gets cleared and the non-union one doesn't.

That way, the union crews can brag about how great life is. "Lookit those scabs, having to drive through the mud to go to work! What low-lifes! And when they leave, they can't even make a left turn..... they gotta go right and then down the street to make a U-turn! Boy, them people are such saps! Makes me proud to be in the union!"


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

Sounds weird. Even on jobs where we serve just serve as an advisor/pm to local elec union, our customer is quite fierce on everyone using the same gate. To access our material on a trailer in the back of the store, we have to get a Lowes receiving employee to open the back door, even though with a half-dozen guys using premanufactured cable, that might mean twenty times a day. They have a few people sitting up front, checking to see that each person, even corporate brass, is wearing a name tag and signs in at the appropriate timesheet.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

There seems to be a lot of people who know both sides of the story, union, or non union. Maybe they can give a good answer as to the two gate issue. If I would hazard to guess, I would think that a judge somewhere created it to keep the two parties from causing a commotion from the first moment of the working day. It probably would take time to get all things resolved and both sides retain the right to work as long as no laws are broken.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Around here if you tried that different gate crap the GC would laugh in your face and give your contract to someone else.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> Around here if you tried that different gate crap the GC would laugh in your face and give your contract to someone else.


Is that only if a non-union worker entered the union gate, or would that apply to a union worker going through the non-union gate as well?


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

I think you misunderstood. The GC puts up the fence and they will not put a special gate in for union workers. Strikes are a non-issue here since we only have less than 10% of the market, and if the union was dumb enough to violate the agreement and strike there would 10 guys for every union guy begging to take their job and cross the picket line. It would look like the Alamo, with about the same results.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Maybe they can give a good answer as to the two gate issue. If I would hazard to guess, I would think that a judge somewhere created it to keep the two parties from causing a commotion from the first moment of the working day. It probably would take time to get all things resolved and both sides retain the right to work as long as no laws are broken.


That is pretty much the deal where I am, it lets the union exercise their freedom to picket and lets the merit shop guys and goods get into the job.

As far as one gate being better than the other as Ken described I have never seen that before.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> That is pretty much the deal where I am, it lets the union exercise their freedom to picket and lets the merit shop guys and goods get into the job.
> 
> As far as one gate being better than the other as Ken described I have never seen that before.


They only do that in Iowa.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

drsparky said:


> They only do that in Iowa.



What's weird is, on one job with two gates, some of the hardhats started sporting stickers saying "Two Gates Suck!" Turns out, it was the union people who had them.:blink:


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## TorchRed (Dec 5, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Is that only if a non-union worker entered the union gate, or would that apply to a union worker going through the non-union gate as well?


 
i can't hardly see a non-union employee making a scene if a union worker used the non union gate, usually the non union guys are there to work, not cry.

i don't understand why a union worker would think they deserve a seperate gate lol


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

It makes me laugh when we are the only merit shop contractor on the job.

At one gate will be a sign with 10 sub contractors that are assigned that gate, at the other gate will be the same size plywood sign with just our name on it. We are special. :jester:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> What's weird is, on one job with two gates, some of the hardhats started sporting stickers saying "Two Gates Suck!" Turns out, it was the union people who had them.:blink:


Ken here the union does not want two gates as that allows the job to keep working when they have a picket.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

480sparky said:


> What's weird is, on one job with two gates, some of the hardhats started sporting stickers saying "Two Gates Suck!" Turns out, it was the union people who had them.:blink:


 So does that mean that some of those union people have a heart sometimes? Maybe they agree that Bs is Bs?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> So does that mean that some of those union people have a heart sometimes? Maybe they agree that Bs is Bs?


I still have yet to find out WHO decides to put two gates up.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I believe it's the GC's call, in order to try to keep the job going when there is an issue with only one or two contractors.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. the whole thing just sounds petty.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. the whole thing just sounds petty.


No... think about it. Do YOU really want to walk through the same gate as ME? :laughing: You'd be walking through an area that I've already defiled.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> No... think about it. Do YOU really want to walk through the same gate as ME? :laughing: You'd be walking through an area that I've already defiled.



A good breeze will take care of that. :whistling2:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I believe it's the GC's call, in order to try to keep the job going when there is an issue with only one or two contractors.


The GC or the customer or the courts are all the reasons I have heard.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> The GC or the customer or the courts are all the reasons I have heard.


The second gate is usually an injunctive issue
ordered by a court.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Some info :jester:

www.calstate.edu/cpdc/cm/Reserved_Gates_Construction_Site.doc 



> It is common on construction sites for labor unions to picket nonunion contractors on the job or the union contractors with whom they have an ongoing labor dispute. That is not only a nuisance for the general contractor on the project, but it also can potentially shut down the job if unionized workers refuse to cross the picket line. However, there are steps you can take to ensure that the project is completed with minimal labor unrest. Specifically, you can establish what is known as a “reserved gate system.” In the following paragraphs there are the principles behind the system and suggestions for effectively creating and maintaining one.
> 
> 
> Background
> ...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Do they post a sign outside.. RAT TUNNEL -----> :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Do they post a sign outside.. RAT TUNNEL -----> :laughing:


Rat gate, scab gate etc.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Some info :jester:
> 
> www.calstate.edu/cpdc/cm/Reserved_Gates_Construction_Site.doc



Sounds like a set a rules parents might write down to keep their 3-year-olds from fighting over a piece of cake.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

The first real big job that I did that was all union except the sparkies was the pier t project in long beach, funny because the union guys would strike, and we would have an nice quite day's work. They'd have their family out there picketing, I would drive in right through them, laughing.........Do union people know that when they are picketing every single person in the world who is non union is laughing at them? Just curious.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No... think about it. Do YOU really want to walk through the same gate as ME? :laughing: You'd be walking through an area that I've already defiled.


that's why they made Purell.:laughing:


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Do they post a sign outside.. RAT TUNNEL -----> :laughing:


is there cheese at the end?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> Do union people know that when they are picketing every single person in the world who is non union is laughing at them?


The GC isn't laughing. Did you think the GC thought it was funny?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> The first real big job that I did that was all union except the sparkies was the pier t project in long beach, funny because the union guys would strike, and we would have an nice quite day's work. They'd have their family out there picketing, I would drive in right through them, laughing.........Do union people know that when they are picketing every single person in the world who is non union is laughing at them? Just curious.


The last laugh is that you are doing the same work for less compensation.
Why is that such a good idea?
Just curious.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> The last laugh is that you are doing the same work for less compensation.
> Why is that such a good idea?
> Just curious.


Well for me it is because I would still have my self respect. I did not require the mothering arms of some organization to help me make it through life. :thumbsup:

But I understand if you are a timid little lamb that cannot speak up for yourself you need all the help you can get. :yes:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Is the union gate made out of tissues? Whaaaaaa... me me me me I want I want I want :icon_cry:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

jrannis said:


> The last laugh is that you are doing the same work for less compensation.
> Why is that such a good idea?
> Just curious.


The real question that never gets answered is why is that ANY of your business?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> The first real big job that I did that was all union except the sparkies was the pier t project in long beach, funny because the union guys would strike, and we would have an nice quite day's work. They'd have their family out there picketing, I would drive in right through them, laughing........*.Do union people know that when they are picketing every single person in the world who is non union is laughing at them? Just curious.*



That's fine, but you know what is really funny?? When we walk off the job to boycott the use of non union labor and every other trade walks off as well.

Usually what happens is the open shop contractor get's replaced in a day or two.
Or they hire union labor.

Either way I always find it amusing.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

fight ! fight ! fight !


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> That's fine, but you know what is really funny?? *When we walk off the job to boycott the use of non union labor and every other trade walks off as well.*
> 
> Usually what happens is the open shop contractor get's replaced in a day or two.
> Or they hire union labor.
> ...


 Maybe they do that in your neck of the woods but in Texas every other trade crosses that picket line and goes right on working. The EC then has a headache on his hands and either hires off the street and mans back up or the GC executes the termination clause in his contract and a non-union shop takes over the contract shortly thereafter. Then regardless of the dispute the job gets finished with non-union labor. Nobody thinks it funny but the non-union EC who laughs all the way to the bank.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

jrannis said:


> The last laugh is that you are doing the same work for less compensation.
> Why is that such a good idea?
> Just curious.


I doubt it, prevailing wage in CA is pretty much 50 an hour and I collected that for years and still could do that all day long but I like my little service company.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jrannis said:


> The last laugh is that you are doing the same work for less compensation.
> Why is that such a good idea?
> Just curious.



Give me a math lesson.

If you strike for x weeks, you lose x weeks pay. Then you go back to work with a 25¢/hour raise. Even before taxes, that's only $500/annum. Compare that to your x weeks of lost pay.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Is the union gate made out of tissues? Whaaaaaa... me me me me I want I want I want :icon_cry:


No, the union gate comes with the requisite 55-gal barrel (for burning scrap wood), a dozen beat-up lawn chairs and a 17-year old Weber grill.:laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Give me a math lesson.
> 
> If you strike for x weeks, you lose x weeks pay. Then you go back to work with a 25¢/hour raise. Even before taxes, that's only $500/annum. Compare that to your x weeks of lost pay.


Who's getting a 25cents raise?? Our new contract is worth $8 per hour over 3 years.

You can keep your math and your quarter. I'll take my 8 bucks.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> Maybe they do that in your neck of the woods but in Texas every other trade crosses that picket line and goes right on working. The EC then has a headache on his hands and either hires off the street and mans back up or the GC executes the termination clause in his contract and a non-union shop takes over the contract shortly thereafter. Then regardless of the dispute the job gets finished with non-union labor. Nobody thinks it funny but the non-union EC who laughs all the way to the bank.



And this is one of the reasons why the unions are weak in Texas.


As soon as one trade sticks a picket line up here all the others will refuse to cross. Usually the GC rushes to find a solution, being this is a Union town and I'm sure the GC would like to continue to do work here.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Worked a job like that being non-union. They had the gravel road and we had to have 4x4 trucks with lift to get in ours. All the non-union and union guys all got along when we got into the jobsite. The union gate was being picketed by three guys from the carpentry union. Which we all understood there were more Mexicano's (around 60) doing carpentry on that site than I've ever seen. 

We did have a couple guys on another crew who would spin out and throw mud all over the GC's travel trailer.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> Who's getting a 25cents raise?? Our new contract is worth $8 per hour over 3 years.
> 
> You can keep your math and your quarter. I'll take my 8 bucks.



Who got a 25¢ raise? OK, you asked, and I'll answer: Bricklayers.

They left a job for 7 weeks in a sympathy strike when the carpenters' couldn't reach a new bargain. They claimed it was about job-site safety. When they came back, they were all atwitter about their new-found riches of 25¢ an hour.

And it's wasn't my quarter. It was the brickies.











Oh, and BTW, the last time I got a raise when I was an waged employee, it was $8 an hour as well. But it wasn't stretched out over 3 years, it was effective next pay period. I didn't need someone else to bargain for that, I earned it.

So you can keep your three years.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> 480sparky;238041]Who got a 25¢ raise? OK, you asked, and I'll answer: Bricklayers.
> 
> They left a job for 7 weeks in a sympathy strike when the carpenters' couldn't reach a new bargain. They claimed it was about job-site safety. When they came back, they were all atwitter about their new-found riches of 25¢ an hour.
> 
> And it's wasn't my quarter. It was the brickies.


And this is what people like you will never understand......sticking together.
If and when the time comes for the brick layers to bargain a new contract, if they're forced to walk off in dispute, the carpenters will do the same. 












> Oh, and BTW, the last time I got a raise when I was an waged employee, it was $8 an hour as well. But it wasn't stretched out over 3 years, it was effective next pay period. I didn't need someone else to bargain for that, I earned it.
> 
> So you can keep your three years.


O.K. I'll play along, so what did that take you to? Because I'm already at $47 per hour and that doesn't include the new contract.

Your funny, I could have said $15 and you would have said "Oh yeah well I got a $15 raise to!!!"




> I earned it.


:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:
I know my paycheck just magically appears out of thin air and requires no work on my part.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Who got a 25¢ raise? OK, you asked, and I'll answer: Bricklayers.
> 
> They left a job for 7 weeks in a sympathy strike when the carpenters' couldn't reach a new bargain. They claimed it was about job-site safety. When they came back, they were all atwitter about their new-found riches of 25¢ an hour.
> 
> ...




And you guy's say union workers are over paid! pfft! :thumbsup:


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> And this is one of the reasons why the unions are weak in Texas.
> 
> 
> As soon as one trade sticks a picket line up here all the others will refuse to cross. Usually the GC rushes to find a solution, being this is a Union town and I'm sure the GC would like to continue to do work here.


 Yeah the union's business model of threats and intimidation does not work so well down here.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> Yeah the union's business model of threats and intimidation does not work so well down here.



Please just answer one question for me, why on earth do you continue to be an IBEW signatory contractor???

I've asked this question to another member here and never received an answer.

There's no "threats" or "intimidation". Everything that I posted are well with in our rights and the law.

just like the GC is well with in his right to hire non union replacements if he so wished. It's just a different world where I'm at, being were a highly unionized city.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Please just answer one question for me, why on earth do you continue to be an IBEW signatory contractor???


 You really don’t know? I will tell you. 
.
1) Because becoming a signatory contractor and signing a letter of assent pretty much is like walking into a roach motel, you can check in but you can never check out. I cannot leave IBEW unless my employees vote to get me out and as you know there are no secret ballots in the union. All voting is done under the watchful eyes of the BA and your coworkers some of which can make your life hell. 
2) If I do manage to somehow get out, I would have to pay NEBF a withdrawal liability of about $1,000,000 (yeah there are six zeros there). You see NEBF is some of the glue for the roach motel, you can’t leave without leaving something. 
3) I would have to completely re-staff, some of which will undoubtedly be salts to ensure I don’t ever succeed again. 
.


> I've asked this question to another member here and never received an answer[ There's no [threats] or [intimidation]. Everything that I posted are well with in our rights and the law.


 BULL****…. I have personally been threatened, had my truck keyed, tires slashed and I have a colleague who came home to a wife in tears because someone threw a bottle of piss through is front window. 
I had a BA scream in my face that he would call all my clients and tell them they were going to strike, and that I would never get work in this town again. I have had over 1500 hits on my duns number and all my creditors call out of concerns that they heard I was going out of business and I have lost contracts because of union intimidation. I could go on for several pages here but don’t feel the need to… .
.
IBEW are not boy scouts, they aren’t quire boys, looking out for the common good of their brothers….well in truth a few may be, but google union intimidation, there are 86 pages of links with a good number of videos too.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> I have personally been threatened, had my truck keyed, tires slashed and I have a colleague who came home to a wife in tears because someone threw a bottle of piss through is front window.
> I had a BA scream in my face that he would call all my clients and tell them they were going to strike, and that I would never get work in this town again.


Let me answer for slick and save him the trouble.


_That does not happen, you have no proof, you are just making stuff up, it was probably merit shop guys trying to discredit the union etc etc etc._

Now I can answer for Brother Noah. :jester:

_That is history, that sort of stuff does not happen_


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## Comingler (Jun 4, 2010)

PhatElvis said:


> 2) If I do manage to somehow get out, I would have to pay NEBF a withdrawal liability of about $1,000,000 (yeah there are six zeros there). You see NEBF is some of the glue for the roach motel, you can’t leave without leaving something.


Please explain this.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Perhaps the mods should create separate gates for this thread?....


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I am a union contractor for the following reasons.


I was union electrician when I started my firm and it was a natural evolution (plus there were calls made to me wanting to know what we were doing and WHY we were trying to compete against union contractors.

Many of my customers were union companies (hospitals and telecommunication forms) being union was required to bid on the work.

I liked the basic package my men would get and I thought it simplified my hassles for insurance, and retirement. 

My biggest complaint has been the mandatory raises for ALL men good or bad and they are getting a $1.50 in June when many other trades and workers are getting no raises or pay cuts and I am struggling for work. At present my men are getting 40 hours even when I have no work for them giving them another $1.50 at this point just does not seem logical.

I have had my trucks messed with by other "BROTHERS" because they did not realize we were union, a friend had 3 trucks have 12 tires sidewalls sliced and his foreman jumped by "BROTHERS". This was recently, so doodoo by members does continue.

Just something abut this does not seem right?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> And you guy's say union workers are over paid! pfft! :thumbsup:



Tell me where I said that.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

*hard lesson learned*



Comingler said:


> Please explain this.


 Gladly!!!

NEBF is the pension plan for the union. There are two ways to participate in a pension plan, either as a defined contribution, or a defined benefit. 

As a defined CONTRIBUTION you are obligated under the agreement to pay into the plan based on your payroll/hours and that is it, end of story. If you ever leave, retire or go out of business your obligations to the NEBF are over. 

As a defined BENEFIT you are obligated to guaranty the plan will remain solvent no matter what, even if you go out of business or go non-union. 

IBEW (and NECA) will not allow a contractor to have an inside agreement without agreeing to NEBF as a defined BENEFIT. The language is benign really its only one sentence that ties you to the terms of the NEBF plan which is a whole book, and buried in this book it states you have just agreed to a defined BENEFIT. 

Currently NEBF has not issued a financial statement as to its condition even though by federal law they are obligated to do so. Given that IBEW has a shrinking market share, and that there are more people retiring than joining, it’s not much of a leap to see what is happening to the fund. Last time I checked (a few years ago) my withdrawal liability was substantial. Currently I estimate my withdrawal liability at around a million dollars. Keep in mind my business has been around for decades and I employ from 50 to 150 men (depending the market) and I have NEVER EVER missed a contribution and have ALWAYS paid every nickel I agreed to pay, yet I still have a substantial liability that I never agreed to. 

This liability has to be listed on your financials, declared to you surety and can even affect your bonding capacity, it also has to be disclosed should you ever want to sell your business, and if you just go out of business and close your doors, you are still on the hook and if the fund dips below a certain percentage you will be legally obligated to help fund it back up and there are several cases that I know of where old retired contractors were obligated to do so. 

Here is a fun fact for ya, if a union member dies either before or after retirement, all his NEBF benefits STOP and his wife and family are not entitled to a nickel of it. 

Back on topic, so this liability is the hook, and once it is set IBEW is not shy about threatening you with it during negotiations nor will they ever agree to let you participate as a defined CONTRIBUTION. It really is part of the glue in that roach motel. 

So why should someone like me, who never knowingly agreed to guaranty a fund that I have no control or influence over, with my own assets, even after NEVER having missed a payment? 

My advice to contractors thinking of going union, READ the fine print, think long and hard and talk to your lawyer about the fact you are about to guaranty a union pension plan with your own assets for LIFE and ask yourself what kind of rube would do something that dumb?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

2 gates? lol.. were going back to segregation.. Yeay union! 

~Matt


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> 2 gates? lol.. were going back to segregation.. Yeay union!
> 
> ~Matt


there are 2 gates at the site i am at currently. im wondering if its due to delivery, or because of this. 

also there are talks of the local laborers union, and plumbers going on strike. the IBEW here will not cross the line, and i would assume the others would not either.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Tell me where I said that.



Tell me where I said that you said you did. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Tell me where I said that you said you did. :no:



You apparently have forgotten about post #48 already. Or was it an error that you quoted me there?


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You apparently have forgotten about post #48 already. Or was it an error that you quoted me there?



I didn't forget anything... I only quoted what you had posted. I never said that you said anything about union workers making too much. When did me saying "you guy's" equal 480sparky? You're not that special. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> I didn't forget anything... I only quoted what you had posted. I never said that you said anything about union workers making too much. When did me saying "you guy's" equal 480sparky? You're not that special. :no:



I guess the fact that you quoted me when you made the statement was a mistake then?

Just so you know, it's considered Forum etiquette that when you quote someone, your reply is intended to address their statement.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I guess the fact that you quoted me when you made the statement was a mistake then?
> 
> Just so you know, it's considered Forum etiquette that when you quote someone, your reply is intended to address their statement.



Nope. No mistake at all. Just used your quote. Never said 480sparky said this or that. 

And c'mon let's be real now... forum etiquette? Please.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Nope. No mistake at all. Just used your quote. Never said 480sparky said this or that.
> 
> And c'mon let's be real now... forum etiquette? Please.



You're gay.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

480sparky said:


> You're gay.


Ken, you didn't have to just blurt it out like that. The man might have feelings.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Ken, you didn't have to just blurt it out like that. The man might have feelings.



Yes. I'm sitting in a corner weeping to myself while I listen to Bette Midler because 480 hurt my wittle feeling.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> ......... The man might have feelings.



Who?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Yes. I'm sitting in a corner weeping to myself while I listen to Bette Midler because 480 hurt my wittle feeling.



How did I hurt your feelings?


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You're gay.



You asking me or telling me? Are you secretly hoping I am...? :icon_wink::cowboy:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> You asking me or telling me? Are you secretly hoping I am...? :icon_wink::cowboy:



Who said anything about you being gay?


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Who said anything about you being gay?



Well according to you if we follow your forum etiquette rule... you did. So you didn't answer my question... are you hoping I am? :cowboy::brows:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Looks like you have a date for tonight Ken.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Well according to you if we follow your forum etiquette rule... you did. So you didn't answer my question... are you hoping I am? :cowboy::brows:


No, I'm following YOUR rules. As for answering your question, I really don't give a damn.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Looks like you have a date for tonight Ken.



Jealous?


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No, I'm following YOUR rules. As for answering your question, I really don't give a damn.



Rules what rules? So... are you asking me out on a date guy?:cowboy:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Rules what rules? So... are you asking me out on a date guy?:cowboy:



Your rules.

And no, I don't swing that way.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Jealous?


Weak :laughing:


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Your rules.
> 
> And no, I don't swing that way.



I don't know what rules you're talking about. 

Ok... I understand... you don't want to have this conversation in public. PM me your details and we could meet for coffee someday tootsie. :tongue_smilie::cowboy:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> I don't know what rules you're talking about.
> 
> Ok... I understand... you don't want to have this conversation in public. PM me your details and we could meet for coffee someday tootsie. :tongue_smilie::cowboy:



No thanks. I have no desire to meet with you. And your sexual preference has no bearing on the matter.


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Let me answer for slick and save him the trouble.
> 
> 
> _That does not happen, you have no proof, you are just making stuff up, it was probably merit shop guys trying to discredit the union etc etc etc._
> ...


Bob I have no way of knowing if I did not witness it just like you. I do believe that acts like this have happened, we all have stories to tell Bob. I once answered an ad in the paper, received a call, drove an hour or so for the in person interview, got job(show next Monday to run the job) showed up Monday to be told I would not be hired because I was union. Most of the complaints by phatelvis are justified but the point on the benefits, that is part of being in business if you sign a contract to pay someones retirement, I do not care if you are union or not you are obligated to pay what you signed for. As far as the stroong arm tactics, it is just about unheardc of this day in time.One phone call to the NLRB and the feds come in to investigate, and from my experience with them they are biased against the unions.As far as someone assaulting my home and or wife, well I think they would much rather shtt in their mommas favorite frying pan than to go there.I do want to rue for you but I find the situation kind of fishy and your response unapt.Good luck to your business though. Thank you for bringing me into the conversation Bob.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Noah, you're a strange one.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Noah, you're a strange one.



Maybe he chewed on too much NM sheathing. :laughing:


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No thanks. I have no desire to meet with you. And your sexual preference has no bearing on the matter.



Oh... uh... yeah me too. So you have no intention of making me your Barbie... Ken? :icon_wink: ..........

























call me. :brows:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Noah, you're a strange one.


I keep picturing him in a long robe walking out of a monastery 

Those guys call each other "brother" also. :laughing:

WAIT.. that was a skit from Seinfeld and Kramer was wearing garlic around his neck.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)




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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Bob . As far as the stroong arm tactics, it is just about unheardc of this day in time.One phone call to the NLRB and the feds come in to investigate, and from my experience with them they are biased against the unions.As far as someone assaulting my home and or wife, well I think they would much rather shtt in their mommas favorite frying pan than to go there.I do want to rue for you but I find the situation kind of fishy and your response unapt.Good luck to your business though. Thank you for bringing me into the conversation Bob.


I gave two recent examples and there are more from other unions.

SEIU is famous for strong arm tactics.

http://volokh.com/2010/05/24/was-seius-picketing-illegal-whether-or-not-they-trespassed/


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> I gave two recent examples and there are more from other unions.
> 
> SEIU is famous for strong arm tactics.
> 
> http://volokh.com/2010/05/24/was-seius-picketing-illegal-whether-or-not-they-trespassed/


 Is this a joke? I do believe as I stated in an earlier post that certain things may occur(I have not seen it in over 10 years)that does not mean it has not happened. This source you are citing are they credited? is there any other reliable sorce to back this story up? 
Thank you MDshunk for the picture, if you know the book you know there was a problem with too much wine later in his life.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

The SEIU is on the up and up.

Mess with money, you messin with emotions.

Collective bargaining is all about the money, and hurt feelings.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Thank you MDshunk for the picture, if you know the book you know there was a problem with too much wine later in his life.


Saving the world probably is stressful. He was, after all, just a man. :thumbsup:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Saving the world probably is stressful. He was, after all, just a man. :thumbsup:


I wish someone would tell that to every girl I've ever dated.
:thumbup:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

For the record, if anyone finds me passed out on the floor, naked like Noah, please cover me up with something.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Is this a joke? I do believe as I stated in an earlier post that certain things may occur(I have not seen it in over 10 years)that does not mean it has not happened. This source you are citing are they credited? is there any other reliable sorce to back this story up?
> Thank you MDshunk for the picture, if you know the book you know there was a problem with too much wine later in his life.


I live in DC and watched it live on TV, Google it.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> For the record, if anyone finds me passed out on the floor, naked like Noah, please cover me up with something.


I've got plenty of ideas:
































​


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> The SEIU is on the up and up.
> s.


SEIU is crap on a stick, they hassled my daughter trying to go to work in a building they were picketing, IMO they are lower than low. Mess with me ahhh you're an ass mess with one of my kids and no how no way am I going to say anything positive about them and even if it was not my daughter I have seen them in DC for years and they are da SH*T.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> For the record, if anyone finds me passed out on the floor, naked like Noah, please cover me up with something.


OK we will walk backwards so we cannot gaze upon your nakedness. :laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Bob I have no way of knowing if I did not witness it just like you. I do believe that acts like this have happened, we all have stories to tell Bob. I once answered an ad in the paper, received a call, drove an hour or so for the in person interview, got job(show next Monday to run the job) showed up Monday to be told I would not be hired because I was union. Most of the complaints by phatelvis are justified but the point on the benefits, that is part of being in business if you sign a contract to pay someones retirement, I do not care if you are union or not you are obligated to pay what you signed for. As far as the stroong arm tactics, it is just about unheardc of this day in time.One phone call to the NLRB and the feds come in to investigate, and from my experience with them they are biased against the unions.As far as someone assaulting my home and or wife, well I think they would much rather shtt in their mommas favorite frying pan than to go there.I do want to rue for you but I find the situation kind of fishy and your response unapt.Good luck to your business though. Thank you for bringing me into the conversation Bob.




The BS continues.....


----------



## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> ...I once answered an ad in the paper, received a call, drove an hour or so for the in person interview, got job(show next Monday to run the job) showed up Monday to be told I would not be hired because I was union....


That sounds pretty fishy to me, my lawyer told me that I was under no circumstance to tell someone that I could or could not hire someone based on whether or not they were party to any collective labor agreements. I would also suspect that the union and NLRB wold be all over such an employer like **** on your mamma's frying pan.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> The BS continues.....


It is your story tell it as you like!


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Bob I have no way of knowing if I did not witness it just like you.


I did not witness the extinction of the dinosaurs but I accept it.



> I do believe that acts like this have happened,


That is like saying 'I do believe the sun is warm'. 




> we all have stories to tell Bob. I once answered an ad in the paper, received a call, drove an hour or so for the in person interview, got job(show next Monday to run the job) showed up Monday to be told I would not be hired because I was union.


I am sure that happens, not a doubt in my mind.

However I do not think 'not being hired' is on par with vandalism and harassment but that is for each of us to decide on our own.

It also could be they found out more about your work history and decided you were not the man for the job. 





> Most of the complaints by phatelvis are justified but the point on the benefits, that is part of being in business if you sign a contract to pay someones retirement, I do not care if you are union or not you are obligated to pay what you signed for.


And he said he is meeting his commitment that was buried in the small print.



> As far as the stroong arm tactics, it is just about unheardc of this day in time.


You keep saying that and it is just as much BS today as it was yesterday. It happens, it is not just in the past.

But go ahead, place your head back in your ass I understand you are happily brainwashed.





> One phone call to the NLRB and the feds come in to investigate,


Yes labor boards can be tough at times.





> and from my experience with them they are biased against the unions.


Really?

Can you point out something to back that up?

I think that you are really talking crap there.




> As far as someone assaulting my home and or wife, well I think they would much rather shtt in their mommas favorite frying pan than to go there.


Are you really this clueless or do you just outright lie?





> I do want to rue for you but I find the situation kind of fishy and your response unapt.


:blink:


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> That sounds pretty fishy to me, my lawyer told me that I was under no circumstance to tell someone that I could or could not hire someone based on whether or not they were party to any collective labor agreements. I would also suspect that the union and NLRB wold be all over such an employer like **** on your mamma's frying pan.



It is illegal to do but it does happen. There are people out there that are ignorant of the law and will say it and there are people who are just as ignorant of the law and don't fight it because they don't realize they could... among other reasons.

Many years ago I worked in for a non-union (non construction) company. The workers wanted to become union, the vast majority. Management actually brought us into a large auditorium and told us that if we went union we would lose our jobs. I was young and naive and didn't realize that was illegal. And those who did know that did nothing about it. Sooo... like I said it does happen.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

PhatElvis said:


> That sounds pretty fishy to me, my lawyer told me that I was under no circumstance to tell someone that I could or could not hire someone based on whether or not they were party to any collective labor agreements. I would also suspect that the union and NLRB wold be all over such an employer like **** on your mamma's frying pan.


 Charges were filed and I did win the case but the contractor filed bankrupt. We are all human as it seems we also belong to different organizations who make mistakes. If there were an eden here on earth then we would all rush to it for the greed of a better way of life therefore spoiling the chance of it ever being. I except the faults that the IBEW has with a personal intent of trying to improve over time.
I am impressed with the knowledge of the good book shown on this site though through crude attempts to humor us.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> I am impressed with the knowledge of the good book shown on this site though through crude attempts to humor us.


Yeah this is a pretty good book.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

.............


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Charges were filed and I did win the case but the contractor filed bankrupt. We are all human as it seems we also belong to different organizations who make mistakes. If there were an eden here on earth then we would all rush to it for the greed of a better way of life therefore spoiling the chance of it ever being. I except the faults that the IBEW has with a personal intent of trying to improve over time.
> I am impressed with the knowledge of the good book shown on this site though through crude attempts to humor us.


If you think that is good, let Nancy Pelosi tell you about "THE WORD".


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


>


:laughing::thumbup::laughing: thats it!!!


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah this is a pretty good book.


Come on Bob you are going to make fun of the Bible with a sex manual? Is this your cry for help Bob? I am sure there are many that would just love to help you with what ever problem you would like to discuss.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Come on Bob you are going to make fun of the Bible with a sex manual? Is this your cry for help Bob? I am sure there are many that would just love to help you with what ever problem you would like to discuss.


Yeah, and his name is BUBBA.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob would never make fun of the Bible, he would not take a chance of being reincarnated into a whale the second time around :laughing:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Come on Bob you are going to make fun of the Bible with a sex manual?


Yes, yes I am.




> Is this your cry for help Bob?


Nah, just my idea of having some fun. 



> I am sure there are many that would just love to help you with what ever problem you would like to discuss.


I have no problem, make sure you don't or God will mess you up. :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75UeVLbkXeg (NSFW)


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

I have no problem, make sure you don't or God will mess you up. :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75UeVLbkXeg (NSFW)[/quote]


Come on Bob you should know by now the fear factor does not work but I did find your video mildly offensive. Bob I have seen a better you on past post.


----------



## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

I prefer this one but I have both on my ipod.
Jesus loves me but he cant stand you!


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

When I worked in the union in the 80's their was only one gate and it was either a union job site or a non-union job site. We never worked alongside non members and visa versa.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Noah, have you ever wondered how much more effective you'd be at changing people's minds if you weren't so irritating? It sure seems that your goal is to change some sentiment or belief. It just seems that your present approach isn't really doing the trick for you.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

jrannis said:


> The last laugh is that you are doing the same work for less compensation.
> Why is that such a good idea?
> Just curious.


Because, while the merit shop employees are busy working and making decent money, you are outside surrounding a burning barrel, making no money. Therefore the Union workers on strike, are getting compensated less....




Chris21 said:


> The workers wanted to become union, the vast majority. Management actually brought us into a large auditorium and told us that if we went union we would lose our jobs. I was young and naive and didn't realize that was illegal.


Nope, its not illegal as you explain it.

I have heard this story so many times, but the story teller always failed to tell me that the business would close and the owners would just retire after selling the business's assets. The story tellers would never tell me what the name of the business was, and what yrs they worked there either as proof that this happened.

The owners close shop and retire, you would be out of a job.
No?


----------



## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Google : wal-mart closes store union
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/10/16/walmart-garage.html 

It's not unheard of, just look a US steel, and auto manufacturing. At one time we made all our own steel and cars, now what's our market share?

As a union contractor, knowing what I know now and having been treated the way I have been treated, Wal-marts tactic is starting to look pretty smart.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> That's fine, but you know what is really funny?? When we walk off the job to boycott the use of non union labor and every other trade walks off as well.
> 
> Usually what happens is the open shop contractor get's replaced in a day or two.
> Or they hire union labor.


Can you back this up with proof?

Name 3 philly jobs, within the last 3 yrs, that you did this.

Names of the jobs, and names of the Merit Contractors please.

Don't claim Comcast Bld, that had nothing to do with merit shop people.

Thanks for your time.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

How it works is, during an organizing campaign, all the sparks stand in a big circle on the job, and the president/CEO tells everyone why he thinks no one should be involved with the union. Up until that point, the president treated everyone like dog crap stuck to his shoe.

That next Friday, the guy who asked questions and complained, got his checks. The excuse used was, 'we don't have enough work.' Funny part was, that John never signed a yellow card, and still didn't want to join up after the contractor smoked his ass for complaining.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> Can you back this up with proof?
> 
> Name 3 philly jobs, within the last 3 yrs, that you did this.
> 
> ...


I never stepped foot on the Comcast job.

But here is three off the top of my head.

1 Bala Cynwyd Building.
Building department hired non union telecom-workers don't recall the name of the shop. Everyone walked off they were replaced in two days by the contractor I was working for (2008).

Mil-Stat. Non union alarm outfit had to hire union help for the install at the Horizon building in Bucks county by the Neshaminy Mall. Also hired help from the contractor I worked for.(2009) This Job was a "composite crew".

Verizon at Redlion and the boulevard and on City Line ave near Presidential . They have their own low voltage crew. They do all there work in New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Both Jobs they had to hire union help, both jobs they hired from the contractor I was working for.(2008&2009)

Lacoste clothing store. Hired non union telecom workers on Chestnut street. They were completely replaced by the contractor I was working for.
Sorry don't remember the name.

It doesn't happen at every job especially in the county's, but it happens often enough to be effective.



> Dnkldorf;Nope, its not illegal as you explain it.


Yes it is illegal for a contractor to threaten or hint at a loss of a job in regards to unionization.

Straight from the NLRB website.
*What are protected concerted activities?*

The National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) protects employees’ rights to engage in protected concerted activities with or without a union, which are usually group activities (2 or more employees acting together) attempting to improve working conditions, such as wages and benefits. Some examples of such activities include:

a) 2 or more employees addressing their employer about improving their working conditions and pay;

b) 1 employee speaking to his/her employer on behalf of him/herself and one or more co-workers about improving workplace conditions;

c) 2 or more employees discussing pay or other work-related issues with each other.

_*The NLRA also protects any individual employee’s right to engage in union support, membership, and activities.*_

The NLRA protects an individual employee’s right not to engage in union activities or in other protected, concerted activities.​ 


*NLRA Violations*
​ The National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) forbids employers from interfering with, restraining, or coercing employees in the exercise of rights relating to organizing, forming, joining or assisting a labor organization for collective-bargaining purposes, or engaging in protected concerted activities, or refraining from any such activity. Similarly, labor organizations may not restrain or coerce employees in the exercise of these rights.
​ *Examples of Employer Conduct Which Violate the NLRA Are:*​ 

_*Threatening employees with loss of jobs or benefits if they join or vote for a union or engage in protected concerted activity. *_
_*Threatening to close the plant if employees select a union to represent them.*_
Questioning employees about their union sympathies or activities in circumstances that tend to interfere with, restrain or coerce employees in the exercise of their rights under the Act.
Promising benefits to employees to discourage their union support.
Transferring, laying off, terminating, assigning employees more difficult work tasks, or otherwise punishing employees because they engaged in union or protected concerted activity.
Transferring, laying off, terminating, assigning employees more difficult work tasks, or otherwise punishing employees because they filed unfair labor practice charges or participated in an investigation conducted by NLRB.



Please stop with your know-it-all nonsense. It get's dizzying after a while.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> Because, while the merit shop employees are busy working and making decent money, you are outside surrounding a burning barrel, making no money. Therefore the Union workers on strike, are getting compensated less....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Threatening employees with loss of jobs or benefits if they join or vote for a union or engage in protected concerted activity."

That comes right from the NLRB website... 

http://www.nlrb.gov/Workplace_Rights/i_am_new_to_this_website/what_are_my_rights.aspx

In the case of the company I worked for there was no chance of them closing shop as you say.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> ....... Up until that point, the president treated everyone like dog crap stuck to his shoe.
> ..........


Still brainwashed, aren't you?


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Back when Slick's drama was happening,
going to the NLRB with a labor complaint was like going to a prostitute for a hug. You see, Bush stacked his cronies in the NLRB to promote business and the Chamber of Commerce.

Yep, 480, I am brainwashed, and seeing that guy get railroaded was the clincher. What do you care anyways? The only union people you see are here in computer land.

Watching the feathers ruffle on all you small-time nickel and dime rat contractors gives me a woody. KEEP THE MUD COMING!


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> Building department hired non union* telecom*-workers don't recall the name of the shop. Everyone walked off they were replaced in two days by the contractor I was working for (2008).
> 
> Mil-Stat. Non union *alarm* outfit had to hire union help for the install at the Horizon building in Bucks county by the Neshaminy Mall. Also hired help from the contractor I worked for.(2009) This Job was a "composite crew".
> 
> ...


Low-Voltage people get bloody raped compared to line-voltage electricians by non-union contractors. 

Here, low-voltage work requires a two-year card, yet the prevailing rate is 55% of the line-voltage prevailing. That 55% is a composite average, there are telecom guys getting paid $12 an hour, with no other benefits of any kind. And this isn't wrong?? How am I supposed to keep a decent wage with another man willing to scrape bottom? ANSWER: Lift the other man up. And that is what I intend to do. The question is, should it be an 'end justifies the means' strategy? Lucky for the dead-beat contractors out there, the IBEW doesn't think so.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Yes it is illegal for a contractor to threaten or hint at a loss of a job in regards to unionization.
> 
> 
> Please stop with your know-it-all nonsense. It get's dizzying after a while.


 
Again, it's about as illegal as driving 67mph in a 65 zone, or as illegal as the Union thuggery that goes on.

My know it all nonsense?

Kinda like calling the kettle black....no?

Stop making up crap. You're not as good as you think you are, if you were, you'd have your own business and have nothing but Union people working for you.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Low-Voltage people get bloody raped compared to line-voltage electricians by non-union contractors.
> 
> Here, low-voltage work requires a two-year card, yet the prevailing rate is 55% of the line-voltage prevailing. That 55% is a composite average, there are telecom guys getting paid $12 an hour, with no other benefits of any kind. And this isn't wrong?? How am I supposed to keep a decent wage with another man willing to scrape bottom? ANSWER: Lift the other man up. And that is what I intend to do. The question is, should it be an 'end justifies the means' strategy? Lucky for the dead-beat contractors out there, the IBEW doesn't think so.



Our low-voltage guy's had it pretty tough for awhile. Slowly it's starting to change though. I believe their rate is up to about $40 ph now. They also got rid of all their lower classifications and everyone had to upgrade. So now their is only one classification and one pay scale. They finally got their own pension, for ever they only had the NEBF pension and the deferred income plan.(I think). Their apprenticeship is 4 years as appose to most other locals who's telecom is only 2. 

Well this is how I understand our telecom side any how.





> Lift the other man up. And that is what I intend to do. The question is, should it be an 'end justifies the means' strategy? Lucky for the dead-beat contractors out there, the IBEW doesn't think so.


I agree 100%. Just one thing, our international needs a big change in direction. Would you agree?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> ...... The only union people you see are here in computer land.


Again with the untruths. *I have met and even worked with union members.* How that's for mud? Got any more lies you'd like to spread? 



miller_elex said:


> ............Watching the feathers ruffle on all you small-time nickel and dime rat contractors gives me a woody. KEEP THE MUD COMING!


Or is your position only to call others names? You really give the union a good rep talking like that.

The only mud here is on your face.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> Again, it's about as illegal as driving 67mph in a 65 zone, or as illegal as the Union thuggery that goes on.
> 
> My know it all nonsense?
> 
> ...



Why do all you guy's equate success with "owning your own business"? I have no intention of owning a shop at this point in time. 

But if I do you can bet your ass that it will be a union shop. I have no intention of selling out or turning my back on an organization I believe in and that has helped me tremendously, especially as of late.

You see I can admit that I need help. I have no shame in it. Also I always give help where I can.

I never claimed to be the best at anything. I'm just the average everyday guy out their trying to make a living for me and my family and perhaps lifting some others up a little on the way.

Success in this world is measured by the respect you get from your friends, family, and peers. I can say with out a doubt that I have earned all three, can you?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> ....... How am I supposed to keep a decent wage with another man willing to scrape bottom? ANSWER: Lift the other man up. And that is what I intend to do. ...........


And you do this by just bad-mouthing others without facts, huh? :blink:


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Our job has 4 gates. :huh:


----------



## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Our low-voltage guy's had it pretty tough for awhile. Slowly it's starting to change though. I believe their rate is up to about $40 ph now. They also got rid of all their lower classifications and everyone had to upgrade. So now their is only one classification and one pay scale. They finally got their own pension, for ever they only had the NEBF pension and the deferred income plan.(I think). Their apprenticeship is 4 years as appose to most other locals who's telecom is only 2.
> 
> Well this is how I understand our telecom side any how.
> 
> ...


im in the telecom side. apprentice still, but still a c. the pay is not much less then the a cards, and its a 4 year program here. 

i think there was only one layoff here. the big plus we have is the vdv national agreement. im doing work in 3 different locals right now.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> im in the telecom side. apprentice still, but still a c. the pay is not much less then the a cards, and its a 4 year program here.
> 
> i think there was only one layoff here. the big plus we have is the vdv national agreement. im doing work in 3 different locals right now.



I believe our telecom side also encompasses at lease one other locals territory as they have no telecom division.

We got rid of the lesser classifications partly because the contractors were taking advantage of the lower pay rates.

In any event it had to be negotiated so I guess more contractors approved then disapproved.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Watching the feathers ruffle on all you small-time nickel and dime rat contractors gives me a woody. KEEP THE MUD COMING!


That was a really stupid statement and you do nothing to make yourself look any better than a loud mouth loser :no:

I don't knock you UNION guys, but I am a penny rat :thumbsup:


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Why do all you guy's equate success with "owning your own business"? I have no intention of owning a shop at this point in time.
> 
> But if I do you can bet your ass that it will be a union shop. I have no intention of selling out or turning my back on an organization I believe in and that has helped me tremendously, especially as of late.


Good for you. Follow your dream. Just remember, your way ain't the only way, and it ain't no better than the next guys. You push your crap on people, and people are going to push back.



> I never claimed to be the best at anything. I'm just the average everyday guy out their trying to make a living for me and my family


You don't want anyone frikin your family, so why do you think you have some right to do it to others?




> Success in this world is measured by the respect you get from your friends, family, and peers. I can say with out a doubt that I have earned all three, can you?


Son, someday you will learn that waking up and seeing the sun every morning, is success.:thumbsup:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> Dnkldorf;239262]Good for you. Follow your dream. Just remember, your way ain't the only way, and it ain't no better than the next guys. You push your crap on people, and people are going to push back.


:laughing:. I don't push my crap on anyone. Stop preaching, you sound like a broken record from some teabag convention. 

You talk about people pushing back, that's exactly what happens all over this country everyday when the working stiff is tired of being demeaned and belittled by people who think like you. Unfortunately the system is stacked against them. The fact of the matter is, if your union or want to join a union more often then not you will end up getting f*cked. 



> You don't want anyone frikin your family, so why do you think you have some right to do it to others?


The only "rights" I have are defined by law, no more or less then anyone else. I choose to stand up for the rights of the average working man not those who wish to profit from them.





> Son, someday you will learn that waking up and seeing the sun every morning, is success.:thumbsup:


Don't call me son. You in no way, shape, or form resemble my father.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> :laughing:. I don't push my crap on anyone. Stop preaching, you sound like a broken record from some teabag convention.


Kettle ?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> Kettle ?



Kettle my ass.

I never come on here and push crap on people. 
There's a whole bunch of non union guy's on this site that I respect. Also there has been things I've posted about my own union that I don't like.

But what I will do is rebut the nonsense that you post. 

And that is what it is, nonsense.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Or is your position only to call others names?





480sparky said:


> You're gay.



Sorta like what you do?


Oh wait... that was you asking me out. I'm still up for meeting for coffee someday guy. :cowboy::brows:


Am I within forum etiquette rules here...? :confused1:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Sorta like what you do?
> 
> 
> Oh wait... that was you asking me out. I'm still up for meeting for coffee someday guy. :cowboy::brows:
> ...



I didn't say anything about you or your sexual preferences. You simply came out of the closet on your own. You also ended barking up the wrong tree.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I didn't say anything about you. You simply came out of the closet on your own. You also ended barking up the wrong tree.



:lol::lol:

Oh boy that was great. 


You said what you said and you know you did. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> :lol::lol:
> 
> Oh boy that was great.
> 
> ...


I know perfectly well what I said. Why on earth do you think I was talking about you?


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I know perfectly well what I said. Why on earth do you think I was talking about you?


Forum etiquette rules remember? :lol:

So are when are you and I going to take our relationship to the next level? :brows::cowboy:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Forum etiquette rules remember? :lol:
> 
> So are when are you and I going to take our relationship to the next level? :brows::cowboy:


And c'mon let's be real now... forum etiquette? Please.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> And c'mon let's be real now... forum etiquette? Please.



Yes I did say that but I saw the light in what you said. So I now follow those rules. :thumbup:

So what are you into guy? :cowboy::brows:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Yes I did say that but I saw the light in what you said. So I now follow those rules. :thumbup:


Riiiiiiiight. Next, you'll tell me you have a bridge in Brooklyn you can get me a good deal on.



Chris21 said:


> So what are you into guy? :cowboy::brows:


Already answered.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Riiiiiiiight. Next, you'll tell me you have a bridge in Brooklyn you can get me a good deal on.
> 
> 
> 
> Already answered.



Oh you silly goose... :001_tongue: 

We could continue this in PM like we did last night... :cowboy::brows:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> ...........We could continue this in PM like we did last night... :cowboy::brows:



Right. Yet another untruth. Typical for you.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

:blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> :blink:


You and Chris?


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> :blink:




480 is the one on the left... I'm on the right. He's the older more experienced one. :cowboy::brows:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You and Chris?



Ooooohhhh now you're talking a threesome. But I don't think slick goes that way. So you and I will have to find someone else that plays on the same team as you and I! :thumbup:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

God I love watching 480 spin out!! :laughing:

There's no way to compromise with these people. :no: Noah, you shoulda known, they will fight tooth and nail against anything you, or I, want to promote for the common good.

Noah, you will surely never have Bob Badgerman's respect by coddling him, but he might grow to like you if you keep reminding him what a scoundrel he is. :thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> God I love watching 480 spin out!! :laughing:...........


I love the way you seem to think belittling others makes you a better person. And you seem to gain, um, some sort of self-satisfaction from it, too.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> I prefer this one but I have both on my ipod.
> Jesus loves me but he cant stand you!


I love this pic..........








http://www.unitednothing.net/content/pictures/jesussaves.html


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> I love this pic..........
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can always post it............ :thumbsup:


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

I was too tired....benadryl kicked in......................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> God I love watching 480 spin out!! :laughing:
> 
> There's no way to compromise with these people. :no: Noah, you shoulda known, they will fight tooth and nail against anything you, or I, want to promote for the common good.
> 
> Noah, you will surely never have Bob Badgerman's respect by coddling him, but he might grow to like you if you keep reminding him what a scoundrel he is. :thumbup:


 Wow you had to go there? I only try to call them as I see them, I have seen good post put up by Bob but I have also witness some gross post. IT appears to me that many try to have the persona of what they are not, it just comes across to me as humans that are confused but wish to express theirself to whom ever will(read) and or listen.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> IT appears to me that many try to have the persona of what they are not, it just comes across to me as humans that are confused but wish to express theirself to whom ever will(read) and or listen.


Are you looking in the mirror again? :laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I love the way you seem to think belittling others makes you a better person.


Awwww, come on, I just pushed your buttons because you said I was brain-washed. You're kind of likable after all.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Are you looking in the mirror again? :laughing:


 I am surprised you figured out how to ask a proper question.We can get along.Sometimes when you have a point you just can not get across it can get frustrating, so instead of anger and being devious with intent you made an effort out of kindness life would be more enriching for us all. I do thank you for the post and invitation though.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> I am surprised you figured out how to ask a proper question.We can get along.Sometimes when you have a point you just can not get across it can get frustrating, so instead of anger and being devious with intent you made an effort out of kindness life would be more enriching for us all. I do thank you for the post and invitation though.


What a fruit.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> What a fruit.


 PLease explain how this is a productive post? It takes sometimes less effort to make amends and atone than to create war, why the wasted effort? I have no ill will towards you.Stimulating your own ego is shallow and but a ghost of a stance.Have a wonderful day.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> PLease explain how this is a productive post? It takes sometimes less effort to make amends and atone than to create war, why the wasted effort? I have no ill will towards you.Stimulating your own ego is shallow and but a ghost of a stance.Have a wonderful day.


It also takes even less effort to ignore those that annoy you, Noah. Are you actually that oblivious that you can't see that you bring these sorts of words your way by your own doing?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> PLease explain how this is a productive post? It takes sometimes less effort to make amends and atone than to create war, why the wasted effort? I have no ill will towards you.Stimulating your own ego is shallow and but a ghost of a stance.Have a wonderful day.


what a fruit


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> It also takes even less effort to ignore those that annoy you, Noah. Are you actually that oblivious that you can't see that you bring these sorts of words your way by your own doing?



You're gay!


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> It also takes even less effort to ignore those that annoy you, Noah. Are you actually that oblivious that you can't see that you bring these sorts of words your way by your own doing?


 It was by invitation.I am sure that he knows what that meant.Thank you for the concern though, I really did not know you cared so.Please have a nice day.


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## JacksonburgFarmer (Jul 5, 2008)

I belive that if more (any) of the union electricians had ever ran their own shop, and dealt with the union, then worked in the union, that they would be much better employees. If these men walked a mile in a man's shoes on the other side of the fence.....I think they would be a lot better off.....but that will never happen......so carry on.....dinglebats :laughing:


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