# Industrial Controls



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

JoeCool612 said:


> I have been very diligent on electriciantalk and within my local attending classes, seminars,
> dinners, work vacations etc in order to gain experience and networking in the specialized field. It happens that I met a Vice President at the largest company in our area (I recently transferred to this company earlier in the month) and I contacted him if the shop had any industrial work. It turns out that I am on the road crew and my foreman tells me (in front of others) that I must have some “pull” because I’m leaving road crew to go on an industrial job tomorrow. I’m excited because if I play my cards right I could really excel with this company. What should I expect with industrial controls work? I’ve mainly done temp controls. I’m a 5th apprentice in union.


Congrats bro, I know you've been looking for the chance.

What to expect depends on the role they put you in. Just keep your eyes and ears open and take any training they offer you.

Best of luck!


----------



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> JoeCool612 said:
> 
> 
> > I have been very diligent on electriciantalk and within my local attending classes, seminars,
> ...


Yeah man. You’ve been super helpful. I appreciate you.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Congrats. There's nothing wrong with having some pull if it's done the right way, for the right reasons. Now go & prove yourself!


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Good luck! Have you worked with ladder logic at all? If not there are tons of online resources that could get the ball rolling.


----------



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

splatz said:


> Good luck! Have you worked with ladder logic at all? If not there are tons of online resources that could get the ball rolling.


I’ve done motor controls and VFDs. I’m wondering what to download or buy as far as relay logic.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

JoeCool612 said:


> I’ve done motor controls and VFDs. I’m wondering what to download or buy as far as relay logic.


I thought this book was a very good introduction to ladder logic and PLC programming: 

Kevin Collins 
PLC Programming for Industrial Automation 

It is on Amazon, he got some bad reviews on Amazon, but the bad reviews were absolutely ridiculous, some troll or something. 

https://books.google.com/books/abou...dustrial_Automatio.html?id=mhiIBAAACAAJ&hl=en


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Best way*



JoeCool612 said:


> I’ve done motor controls and VFDs. I’m wondering what to download or buy as far as relay logic.


When you get in there ask if you can see the prints for a basic machine they use. On your lunch time look at the prints and see if you can figure out how to run the machine by reading the prints. Then watch the machine run and find the different devices on the machine. 
Once you do a small basic machine they are all just a bunch of small basic machines put together to make one big machine.
A trick to troubleshooting is think basic and small, don't go all over till one thing is done. Do not be a parts changer it don't work.


Just remember follow ALL safety rules.

Good luck and stick to the controls, I can go anywhere and get a job with my years of control experience. I have never applied for a job I didn't get an offer for.

Cowboy


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

welcome to the dark side. 


Hopefully someone will take you under there wing and show you the ropes. (they normally do for your safety)


A words of advice.
Always stand to the side of someone showing you something in a live panel. Pushing your instructor into the panel doesn't go down well. 


Also some controls guys are a little weird don't let that upset you. One day you may be just as weird.


----------



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

gpop said:


> welcome to the dark side.
> 
> 
> Hopefully someone will take you under there wing and show you the ropes. (they normally do for your safety)
> ...


 I called my foreman (I usually call the day before) and he told me this is the bread and butter of our industry. Lol


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

gpop said:


> ...
> A words of advice.
> Always stand to the side of someone showing you something in a live panel. Pushing your instructor into the panel doesn't go down well.
> ...


Ok, THAT looks like it stems from an interesting story!


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

JRaef said:


> gpop said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 To add insult to injury. When they drop kicked the electrician / instructor out of the cabinet they broke 3 ribs.

I won't let any one stand behind me or lean over my shoulder


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

When your walking thru the plant with your mentor watch how he acts. 
It becomes natural to stop and listen for noise or lack of it. You begin to get the feel that something is wrong.


----------



## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Great advice above^^^

I can second Collin's book. There are many free resources out there, and like Mech said, take any training offered.

Also Rockwell Automation has a lot to offer for training. It's not free, but if you see something that you specifically want to learn it's worth it. 

Good news, good luck with it.


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

Wirenuting said:


> When your walking thru the plant with your mentor watch how he acts.
> It becomes natural to stop and listen for noise or lack of it. You begin to get the feel that something is wrong.


This is fantastic advice. Use all of your senses when looking at equipment. As said before, you will get a feel for it. Troubleshooting is about chasing breadcrumbs and looking for clues. You are a detective.

Do not let others rush you. It is okay to be standing there and thinking. Most times it is okay to walk away for a minute, or see what symptoms are and sit down with the print and a PENCIL to mark a few things as you are chasing down the circuit so that when in front of the machine you have a clear path to follow.

Best advice I was ever given:

Shut the hell up and listen. Even if you already know. Listen. Don't ever tell someone that you already know something. You might be told 20 things, and already know 19 of them, but you just learned something.


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Even as a contractor now I can't make out specific sounds from a machine but probably over 50% of my diagnosis is listening to the stories from the local operator and electrician.

Sunday I went to a dishwasher plant that was down. After 5 minutes I knew exactly what was wrong but I had not opened a single cabinet, run any tests, or even actually looked at anything. The one test I ran was really just a confirmation test.

So story was main breaker for a line tripped, then tripped a few weeks later, then eventually every hour. No other problems detected. Breaker was mid to late 80s insulated case. The trip happened even when running different combinations of machines.

Know what's wrong yet? Hint: there are discrete dials on the trip unit face, most likely analog with a bunch of RC circuits inside. Hint...Hint, 20+ year old circuit with what are probably electrolytic capacitors...Google how these are built and how they fail.

Confirming test: we have an idea what it is but it could also be some erratic as of yet thing turning on and a bad breaker that isn't tripping so the main catches it, or say a high resistance or arcing fault on incoming power, or a mechanical defect in the trip trigger. Thing is you can't run tests to prove something is NOT working correctly, only to prove that it is. So we run a test to verify trip unit works correctly and see if it fails the test which narrows down the causes.

So we put current meters on the legs and monitored for peak current. Breaker is 3000 A frame set for long term at 1x pickup and instantaneous at 5x pickup or 15,000 A. Sure enough it trips at 250 A peak current every time.

Conclusion: got a bad trip unit. Cause: geriatrics. Failure: one of the electrolytic capacitors dried out in the last 20+ years. Fix: replace trip unit. I could have gone board level and found and maybe replaced the offending capacitor but at this age it's just a matter of time before another one fails, then another, then maybe a solder joint...

Trip unit was well sealed, so I could have permanently disassembled to verify visually then desoldering components to test but as I said...board level repairs tend to be short lived and 50-80% success rate at 25+ years of life. I did that stuff I the 80s as a hobby and learned it's never quite the same again and that's before surface mount days.



Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

Best advice I can give for controls work is to always remember everything is a series of individual segments, even if they interact with each other in complex ways (don't allow yourself to be overwhelmed). You can test and verify any of these segments, and where to start involves an intuition that you'll develop with time and understanding. If not that, divide and conquer. You've done temp controls... what you'll be looking at will involve other types of sensors, but you get the basic idea. Best of luck.


----------

