# Another ICP



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Here’s another control panel I’ve been working on. Started it Saturday morning. It has a sister panel with 22 more vfds that’s next after this one.








They are too tall for my current workshop, makes fabrication a PITA. 








Exposing some bare metal for the vfds. 
















This cabinet is all 15hp. 








Controlled by logo 8 








5% line reactors and breakers. 2 sections fused with j-class fuses to handle the 34k afc. 


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Another carwash?


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

MTW said:


> Another carwash?




Yup. Trying to get enough motivation up to go back out and start pulling some wire. My labeler is lame and not pc connectable so I have to type every label out. So many tools I would like to buy. 


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

tates1882 said:


> Yup. Trying to get enough motivation up to go back out and start pulling some wire. My labeler is lame and not pc connectable so I have to type every label out. So many tools I *need* to buy.


Fify!


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

dang, I thought the thread was gonna be about Insane Clowns !:thumbdown:


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Nice layout, I like it.

Side mount A/C or fans?


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

micromind said:


> Nice layout, I like it.
> 
> Side mount A/C or fans?




External exhaust fan. The louvers you can see in the pics are filtered intakes. We are recycling the 30k btu from each cabinet and supplementing the drying bay heaters. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Fify!




Nah “need” would imply that we wouldn’t be able to complete the job without it. I have a few other things that are much higher on the list. Like a taller shop and crane system. 


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I'm puzzled: you've used up ALL of the side space.

How in the world will you route your conductors ? ( North to South )

Just asking.

These all appear to be DIN mounted molded case circuit breakers -- please confirm.

Forgive me, I run field wiring -- up and down the scale -- my custormers// clients provide packaged solutions -- from guys like you -- I'd suspect.

The number of C/Bs is -- by my count -- astounding.

Your customer looks like he has simply no end of 3-phase motor loads.

In other words, a VERY fat wallet that demands perfection in his control and power circuits.

Charge Large.

Please.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I had no idea that these MCCs were build in people's garages.
I can see advantages of laying them on their back to wire them and the ability to walk around them.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

tates1882 said:


> My labeler is lame and not pc connectable so I have to type every label out. So many tools I would like to buy.


I like these, no fancy label machine required: 

https://www.cableorganizer.com/ziptape/print-on-label-sheets.html 

If you use the templates they have you can save a lot of time, even moreso if you're handy with Excel.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

tates1882 said:


> Nah “need” would imply that we wouldn’t be able to complete the job without it. I have a few other things that are much higher on the list. Like a taller shop and crane system.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To me 'need' in tools is anything that would lessen your time or effort to accomplish a task.

In my experience a gantry crane can be great for moving heavy things around.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

tates1882 said:


> Nah “need” would imply that we wouldn’t be able to complete the job without it. I have a few other things that are much higher on the list. Like a taller shop and crane system.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If a tool makes us more efficient, often times we'll add it into the cost of the job.

We use a Brady TL2200, I believe. I like it.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

He has a screwdriver, hammer and strippers. What more does he need?


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

telsa said:


> I'm puzzled: you've used up ALL of the side space.
> 
> How in the world will you route your conductors ? ( North to South )
> 
> ...



There’s 2-4x4 wire ducts that run vertical on each side of the vfds, that’s where the runs go north and south. 

Yes ul489 circuit breakers. One of the ways of raising the SCCR of the vfds was using an investigated combination. 

Shoot if you seen his power bill alone you would die. I’ve built three washes for the same customer and he normally does all full voltage starters. We wanted to see if we can minimize the $6k in demand charges using vfds. 



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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Southeast Power said:


> I had no idea that these MCCs were build in people's garages.
> I can see advantages of laying them on their back to wire them and the ability to walk around them.


No advantage to laying them on their back.


backstay said:


> He has a screwdriver, hammer and strippers. What more does he need?


dang it more tools to buy, I only have a 10in1 and a pair of linemens.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Made a little progress last night. Burnt some midnight oil.










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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

You are taking out the back boards before starting to mount anything right?
I did not see any back boards out of the enclosures during assembly.

Are you working from a print this time?


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

Are you required to have special inspection on your field built panels ?....certainly in Canada it would be a requirement to be a "recognized panel builder" . The Electrical Inspection guys would be looking for the stickers first viewing !


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> You are taking out the back boards before starting to mount anything right?
> I did not see any back boards out of the enclosures during assembly.
> 
> Are you working from a print this time?




No when they are this large they stay in place. 

Always work from prints. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

scotch said:


> Are you required to have special inspection on your field built panels ?....certainly in Canada it would be a requirement to be a "recognized panel builder" . The Electrical Inspection guys would be looking for the stickers first viewing !




I’m a 508 panel shop and electrical contractor. I can ship to Canada too. 


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## Cemo (Feb 5, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Fify!




My favourite Brady TLS 2200 was discontinued recently, you can get a good deal if you can locate one. I just picked up 3. 
Pc connectable and a ton of label/ribbon options.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

What does it take to get to be a 508 shop? 

I've thought about getting certified but so far it hasn't been questioned. One of these days though......lol.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

micromind said:


> What does it take to get to be a 508 shop?
> 
> 
> 
> I've thought about getting certified but so far it hasn't been questioned. One of these days though......lol.




I can only speak of UL, I was etl with my previous partner but he handled all the 508 stuff. 

For ul I drove up to camas Washington sat through a slide show that blew me away on how different the nec and 508 are for 8 hours. Then you buy labels, present a panel for your initial product inspection, pay $2k at the first of the year, pay $600 4 more times per year for quarterly inspections, pay more money if the inspector finds something wrong, pay more money if you ship lots of panels because they will come more often for inspections. So basically you pay money if you already know how to build a panel, and pay more money if you don’t know how. 

It works for me because I’m a one man shop and needed a heavyweight swinging out of my corner if something were to go wrong and a lawsuit happened. 

For being in Nv, Stockton ca would be a short trip for the class or you can have them come to you. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

The reason i went exposed around the line reactors is because the wires are actually out in front of the reactors. That way theres no restrictions for the air flow to keep them cool, being stacked this way makes me nervous about the stove pipe effect. 








8 more vfds and its on to the control side. May have it wrapped up by friday. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Jamming on. High voltage complete 


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

tates1882 said:


> There’s 2-4x4 wire ducts that run vertical on each side of the vfds, that’s where the runs go north and south.
> 
> Yes ul489 circuit breakers. One of the ways of raising the SCCR of the vfds was using an investigated combination.
> 
> ...


What speed reduction or Hz reduction are you thinking and what is the motor application? (maybe I missed the application in previous post sorry)


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

goodtimesgladly said:


> What speed reduction or Hz reduction are you thinking and what is the motor application? (maybe I missed the application in previous post sorry)




For this panel there’s no speed reduction, just a 7 sec ramp time and coast to stop. This runs 22 blowers for a drying room. They start and stop close to 900 times per day, 6 days per week. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Almost done with first box. 


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

It takes a lot longer to build a control panel than anyone realizes. 

Just mount the stuff and hook up the wires.......


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

micromind said:


> It takes a lot longer to build a control panel than anyone realizes.
> 
> Just mount the stuff and hook up the wires.......




For sure. I’m finally not as anal as I once was about all the wire bends matching exactly. Still have just under 100 hours into it without including the prints and logic. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Well there she is in all her glory. Still have to put the final label on the front and add 19 insulation displacement connectors and male spade to one wire run but they do t ship in till
Monday. 

Woot woot on to the next one. 


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

tates1882 said:


> For sure. I’m finally not as anal as I once was about all the wire bends matching exactly. Still have just under 100 hours into it without including the prints and logic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Considering its size, 100 hours is actually pretty good!


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

#2 in the works now. Not moving nearly as fast on this one my poor back and knees are screaming. Gotta have her done and ready to ship by saturday so I guess no rest for the wicked. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

High voltage side done on #2, now on to the controls. You’ll notice fuses for the 30hp vfds instead of CBs to raise the SCCR of the vfd to 65kA. 


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

#2 all finished up minus labels. Woot woot 


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