# To Prove a Point part II



## Gompers (Feb 9, 2009)

Okay fella's simple questions on how union members take a stance on union issues.
moderators gonna love this one! No I'm not challenging, just a poll.





Question ONE:

"Would you work book two with guys out on book one"?

Scenario:
Your a brother, a traveling member, a guy down on his luck. You sign the book at a neighboring union. You get job call working overtime, base pay is way above your home locals standard wage + OT. Work this good life for three months, the local union now has members onbook one - and your on book two.
You have been out a LONG TIME, family enjoys the checks you end home weekly. 

What do you do?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Prove a point II*

I consider myself a pretty good union man. If I got a job off of the number two book and the number one book was empty...I'd be okay with that. If book #1 , then, became empty, I would not quit.I still am a good union man but I recall when I was on construction...Off for six months and not one call asking how I was doing.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Gompers said:


> Question ONE:
> 
> "
> 
> ...


My brother is not union, my sister was.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Gompers said:


> "Would you work book two with guys out on book one"?


You mean, give a job up to a professional benchwarmer or what are you trying to say? I don't feel obligated to people who treat the hall like a welfare office to free unemployment until a cherry comes along to pick.

Who I do feel obligated to, is people who show up on time every day and work hard. The guy who says, 'You can't see it from my house,' I can't see him from my house either.

There are alot of guys off work now for months, who give a sh1t, who want to work. These guys who want to work, are waiting on the benchwarmers who get first pick when the jobs recover.

Your question does not matter. There is no work going to Book 2 right now anywhere. Point is moot.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

troll


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't care about the back story. If I am a guest in a local on book two and now people are on book one, I resign. It is called having integrity.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

I think it's fine, as long as the book 1 hand was not laid off from the job your working, then your a douche.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Gompers said:


> just a poll.


 Where is this poll you speak of?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Aslong as I was working and feeding my family I wouldn't give two craps who was on the books. The cream always rise to the top.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

drsparky said:


> I don't care about the back story. If I am a guest in a local on book two and now people are on book one, I resign. It is called having integrity.


Or saving your neck and possibly your tires.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

When book one starts to build up, the B.A. should clear out book two.


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

Some days it is easy to see which of the "union contractors" are really anti- union! BillW.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

You have to lay off book 2 first then layoff book 1 unless the guy on book 2 is using special skills and nobody on book 1 can replace him. When I worked book 2 I would always bow out gracefully when book 1 had hands that needed work after all I was a quest in another local.


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## regieleeroth (Feb 27, 2009)

rewire said:


> You have to lay off book 2 first then layoff book 1 unless the guy on book 2 is using special skills and nobody on book 1 can replace him. When I worked book 2 I would always bow out gracefully when book 1 had hands that needed work after all I was a quest in another local.


Tough to know when Book 1 hands are off, do you call the hall every week? Which makes sense in a small local, but one that has a big geographic area with several satellite books, well.... 

Many locals have lost lawsuits, so they and others have instituted a set number of hours a tramp has to reach, before PRESTO, he is now Book 1 status. If he chooses to be.:no:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

regieleeroth said:


> Tough to know when Book 1 hands are off, do you call the hall every week? Which makes sense in a small local, but one that has a big geographic area with several satellite books, well....
> 
> Many locals have lost lawsuits, so they and others have instituted a set number of hours a tramp has to reach, before PRESTO, he is now Book 1 status. If he chooses to be.:no:


Excellent point, is it a travelers responsibility to call the hall each day to make sure a book 1 hand wasn't laid off from another job in the local? Even it he or she was, would they fill your position as a book 2 hand on your job if you asked for an ROF?


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

sparky970 said:


> Excellent point, is it a travelers responsibility to call the hall each day to make sure a book 1 hand wasn't laid off from another job in the local? Even it he or she was, would they fill your position as a book 2 hand on your job if you asked for an ROF?


 Don't worry the local hands will let you know when another job has just laid off hands.They will also let you know if it is time for you to go or if it is ok for you to stay.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

rewire said:


> Don't worry the local hands will let you know when another job has just laid off hands.They will also let you know if it is time for you to go or if it is ok for you to stay.


Yah, if the work is slow, only the shoppies will have jobs. The shoppies want whats best for the contractor, and will send the slowest man home, doesn't matter where he is from.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Yah, if the work is slow, only the shoppies will have jobs. The shoppies want whats best for the contractor, and will send the slowest man home, doesn't matter where he is from.


And in the long run this is most likely best, if you keep bodies around without enough work, no matter how good the electrician sooner or later the EC will have to do something, fold, go bankrupt or sign the book himself.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

We tried to get reverse layoff in our contract. Example: Contractors would have to lay off all book 2's before book 1's could be laid off. Our contract went before the CIR and nothing was changed as far as that language is concerned. It just says "Contractors shall give preference to Book 1 members" right now. I was working on a job where there was a book 2 hand, the foreman/GF wanted to keep him and lay off some others how ever he drug up as soon as he heard of them laying off book 1's. That is the right thing to do. IMO


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

There are all kinds of Book 2's in this local, that are locals but live just outside the boundary of the local, so they have to sign book 2, even though they worked here years and years and did their apprenticeship here.

Add to that, the Book 2 guys, who won't see a call for a long time, but moved here from out of state with their wife or something. Sure, they are book 1 guys somewhere else, but now their family is here too. What about these guys, who are capable of running jobs, but now have to work non-union because the agent told them to get lost. 

One way or another, people have to work. A guy who was a top-notch foreman in another local isn't going to sit on his hands making parts deliveries for the supply house just because he moved to a new town and doesn't want to take his brother's bread. That sh1t actually sounds ********, and the guy who believes it, he's a ****** too.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

If you are on a specific job as a book 2 hand, you should take an ROF for that job before any book 1 hands are laid off.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> There are all kinds of Book 2's in this local, that are locals but live just outside the boundary of the local, so they have to sign book 2, even though they worked here years and years and did their apprenticeship here.


Were they live has nothing to do with what book they sign it has to do with what local they are a member of.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

rewire said:


> Were they live has nothing to do with what book they sign it has to do with what local they are a member of.


It matters here. If you live across such and such river, you are not Book 1, doesn't matter how long you have worked in the local making the long commute.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> It matters here. If you live across such and such river, you are not Book 1, doesn't matter how long you have worked in the local making the long commute.


 what is your local?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> It matters here. If you live across such and such river, you are not Book 1, doesn't matter how long you have worked in the local making the long commute.


So Local 48 members that live in Vancouver can't sign Book 1?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

It is the Lewis River. Check you map. http://www.ibew.org/IBEW/directory/states/WA_Inside.asp

You of all people should know that.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> It is the Lewis River. Check you map. http://www.ibew.org/IBEW/directory/states/WA_Inside.asp
> 
> You of all people should know that.


In 15 years, I've never signed the books in 48. I know I would be book 2. I do know a few members from 48 that live here but didn't know they couldn't sign book 1.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

I will call Clif Davis and get an answer


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