# Looking for suggestions - Temp feed 41 apts for a week??



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

No OCP in each apartment?


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

You are planning to temp feed the apartments while working on the feeders to the apartments?


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Got a pic of the service equipment?


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

sounds like he has to replace the 41 meter equipment section(s) which are fed from a MDP. don't know if the unit's OCP is in the MDP or at each unit meter.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

My POCO has portable transformers on wheels, put a fence around it. They connect direct to the over head, and run cables from the transformer to the distribution gear.


I know my suggestion is not a complete thought but it is WAY better than a generator.

Be safe


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

SWDweller said:


> My POCO has portable transformers on wheels, put a fence around it. They connect direct to the over head, and run cables from the transformer to the distribution gear.
> 
> 
> I know my suggestion is not a complete thought but it is WAY better than a generator.
> ...


I think it's not that easy. I think he has to temp feed the apartments after the MDP. I think it goes Utility-MDP-Apt meter section(s) and he's replacing the last


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

farmantenna said:


> I think it's not that easy. I think he has to temp feed the apartments after the MDP. I think it goes Utility-MDP-Apt meter section(s) and he's replacing the last


That's what it sounds like to me also.

I think the cost to temp feed this apartments is a lot more costly than just pretending you had a disaster and are out of power for a week. You can't energize the feeders to the apartment because you have to deal with the wiring in the meter center, and just how would you energize those apartments temporally. I think the money would be better spent on additional labor and planning, working 24 hours a day and finishing the job in 2 days.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

I don’t get it. Do you have one giant bus bar feeding 41 meter mains or one or more MDPs feeding 41 meter sockets?

Plus if you are replacing 41 meter sockets why do you need to bypass them and does this even make sense or is it really one at a time? If it’s an inspector thing just pay the guy to stay on your job all week.Then inspect as you go.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Do you have room for mounting the new 41 section meter unit someplace else, that would be my choice?
If you can mount the new one and connect it to POCO then it is just pull one meter, extend/shorten leads to new meter one at a time.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

WE NEED PICS!!!


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

backstay said:


> No OCP in each apartment?


Yes...breaker for each meter in meter bank.


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> Do you have room for mounting the new 41 section meter unit someplace else, that would be my choice?
> If you can mount the new one and connect it to POCO then it is just pull one meter, extend/shorten leads to new meter one at a time.


Nope


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> WE NEED PICS!!!



















35 meter section is Fed Pacific. Section to the right is Eaton that was replaced before by someone else. New 35 meter bank too wide to fit, so we proposed to replace 6 section too with one 41 section meter bank.
Note: Disconnect on left is temp feeding the bad meter section for apt.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

This has nothing to do with your job, but out of curiosity, what's wrong with that equipment that it needs replacement?

Thanks for the pics, after looking at that I stick by my suggestion of working 24 hours a day. I think with the proper planning that you can do the swap out in a day (not 8 hours, longer).


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> This has nothing to do with your job, but out of curiosity, what's wrong with that equipment that it needs replacement?
> 
> Thanks for the pics, after looking at that I stick by my suggestion of working 24 hours a day. I think with the proper planning that you can do the swap out in a day (not 8 hours, longer).


#1, one of the apt MB is bad. #2, another MB is arcing. #3, it is FEDPac and we don't replace that garbage. Whole book of reasons why not. #4, other MB's will fail, they always do. #5, many insur. co's will not insure FedPac equipment...ie this customers.


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> That's what it sounds like to me also.
> 
> I think the cost to temp feed this apartments is a lot more costly than just pretending you had a disaster and are out of power for a week. You can't energize the feeders to the apartment because you have to deal with the wiring in the meter center, and just how would you energize those apartments temporally. I think the money would be better spent on additional labor and planning, working 24 hours a day and finishing the job in 2 days.


This is the plan...was just looking for an outside perspective if maybe someone had a brilliant plan to temp feed.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Veteran Sparky said:


> This is the plan...was just looking for an outside perspective if maybe someone had a brilliant plan to temp feed.


Nice try.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Send all tenants on vacation for a couple of days? Nice job but with a lot of planning needed. I would not even know where to begin.. Hope it goes well.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

It is obvious to me. You move each tenant out to another location(hotel). Shut power down, start working.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

backstay said:


> It is obvious to me. You move each tenant out to another location(hotel). Shut power down, start working.


Cheaper than sending them to Hawaii or Disney World.. Put them up in a Super 8.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

How much of the work can be pre-fab?
That right there might save you significant downtime.


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

MikeFL said:


> How much of the work can be pre-fab?
> That right there might save you significant downtime.


Not much. Procedure would be, label All meters to corresponding apts., Open MDP switch for meter bank circuit...go to town. Cannot really do anything while energized.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Veteran Sparky said:


> Procedure would be, label All meters to corresponding apts.,


LOL, make sure the guys on site understands this! It would take some work to figure out after the fact which meter goes where, and I can see that happening to someone not planning or paying attention.


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## CraziFuzzy (Jul 10, 2019)

The only alternative I can think of, and I can't see the whole area - would be to NOT put in a singular meter array, but a main distribution panel to the left of the service, and then replace the meters a column at a time starting all the way at the right (so each new column nudges a bit to the right of where it is now to provide the space). Messy, would take longer, and frankly, not sure it's worth it.

How are the load-side conductors leaving the meter cabinet?


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

CraziFuzzy said:


> The only alternative I can think of, and I can't see the whole area - would be to NOT put in a singular meter array, but a main distribution panel to the left of the service, and then replace the meters a column at a time starting all the way at the right (so each new column nudges a bit to the right of where it is now to provide the space). Messy, would take longer, and frankly, not sure it's worth it.
> 
> How are the load-side conductors leaving the meter cabinet?


Not enough room for MDP. Not a service. Meter bank is one circuit from MDP in other area of building.
Apt panel circuits run up out of top of meter banks in conduits to a trough than disappear into the bedlum.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I have looked at a few of these and have also considered different options. Do you have room to build the unit in front of the existing on strut and then just do the switch over? What I have considered is doing that, then "pushing it" into place once the old is removed; then it just a matter of the tie ins. Another option I have considered is the polaris tapping all the cables to a temporary splitter run on a generator. We had the generator run 24/7 and required people around the clock. The local utility was onboard with the idea of "free power" for a couple of days and inspection was good with the temporary set-up as long as someone was there to monitor it.

Cheers
John


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I did this job back in 2016 similar to yours....this is only one of the two areas....I did 106 meters total. I dunno if you have enough slack in the feeder cables but...I had to box and extend maybe 10 apartments. in this area i put the new grouping perpendicular in the other area i put the grouping as tight as i could infront of the existing just enough room to pull the meter.

I think the I had parallels 350's to feed the new groupings disconnect and what i did was H tap crimped to the existing service wires in a box. I left both grouping Energized until I moved all the apartments to new grouping

after moving each apartment 1 by 1 I went back and cut off the feeds to the old meter grouping disconnect.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

you might be able to energize the new stuff and just temp back feed the whole old meter grouping and cut out later


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## TEO (Jan 17, 2020)

I agree with other's to just kick everyone out, kill the power and go to town. The time spent trying to do temporary power would be half the time needed to replace it with the power off.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

TEO said:


> I agree with other's to just kick everyone out, kill the power and go to town. The time spent trying to do temporary power would be half the time needed to replace it with the power off.


if you have a weekend to do this then yeah no problem.....most likely you have a only a long day ...this is too much work IMO

these are old people they home all the time


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## TEO (Jan 17, 2020)

Tonedeaf said:


> if you have a weekend to do this then yeah no problem.....most likely you have a only a long day ...this is too much work IMO
> 
> these are old people they home all the time


That's why they need to send them to a hotel for a day or two if necessary.
The logistics of trying to temp feed 40+ separate loads would be a complete nightmare.
If the OP has the personal I think this is doable 24 hrs with two 12hr shifts
If you add in the burden of temp power it would add days to the project if not more.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Just run welding cable from a fused disco at the pole into the E room and hot tap it into the tenant feeds


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Slay301 said:


> Just run welding cable from a fused disco at the pole into the E room and hot tap it into the tenant feeds


How much additional time do you think this will require? 

I think it's a money waster and time waster to do it that way. I haven't done the math to see if it's less expensive than putting people in a hotel for a day.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Tonedeaf said:


> ...this is too much work IMO


I understand and now need to share a story.

My GC buddy up in Va. used to build the Sam's Club gas stations across the country (yea, he traveled a lot).

Typical job was to dig the hole and bury the tanks, Pour (12 I think) canopy footings and a slab for the prefabbed kiosk, bring in water, sewer, communications, and power lines, have the canopy built, install the fuel lines, pour concrete curbs and concrete the lot (pour the islands for the dispensers), set the kiosk, install all equipment and make it all work. He routinely did them on a 90-day schedule.

One day Sam's Club called and told him they needed a job completed in Florida in 30-day from start to finish and could he do it? He called his subs, discussed the plan of action, then told the owner yes but it would cost an additional $50,000 (now this was almost 20 years ago so that 50k was a lot more money back then). Sam's agreed.

Well, damn if they didn't have all the underground done (tanks, piping, utilities, etc.), building set, canopy built, and concrete poured in three weeks and used the last week to finish up and test. He said that not only did the job go better, it cost him less than it usually does (no travel (plane tickets) and only 1 month of out of town instead of three). I understand this is now a legendary performance around Sam's.

The point being, with great planning and people that are Americans instead of American'ts you can be astounded as to what can get done.

I believe with the proper planning, manpower, and attitude that this job can be completed in less than 48 hours.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

IMHO @oldsparky52 has the "brilliant plan."


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

oldsparky52 said:


> The point being, with great planning and people that are Americans instead of American'ts you can be astounded as to what can get done.


I agree but I am thinking there has to be a way to do this without an extended outage. I don't have much of a picture what's got to be done from the OP's pics but I just can't believe there's absolutely no way to get this done without putting people out of their homes. 

I would be extremely surprised if there's not an EXTRA $40,000 on the table if someone can get this done with no outage longer than say 8 hours per apartment. What do you think it will cost to reimburse the tenants of forty apartments for food and lodgings plus replacement of what's in their refrigerators and freezers plus something for their aggrevation? It might wind up costing the landlord a months rent and if you have even one lawyer in that building it could get a lot worse. 

So with an extra $40,000 in the budget, still can't think of a way to get this done?


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

oldsparky52 said:


> How much additional time do you think this will require?
> 
> I think it's a money waster and time waster to do it that way. I haven't done the math to see if it's less expensive than putting people in a hotel for a day.


Idk he didn’t ask for a price or anything he asked for a solution


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

@Veteran Sparky , by any chance do you have a pic of the area above the meter center? 

Just curious. I love this kind of stuff.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I would Buy enough 8/4 SO cord to feed each unit either through the loadcenter or backfeed through the AC unit.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> I would Buy enough 8/4 SO cord to feed each unit either through the loadcenter or backfeed through the AC unit.


Negative. 

IF anything, install temp triplex and some vampire connectors and hang through the halls or apartments and temp out EACH PANEL so their feeders are NOT live as the meter/distrib. work git er' dun!

Some spackle after removal keep everyone safe. Feed from the HOUSE meter EVEN if a TEMP "all encompassing" service is requires a new temp house meter as well.

But WHY all this can't be built and pre-fabbed then removed and slapped onto the walls in ONE day by 2 COMPETANT WELL PAID EXPERIENCE Journeymen remains a mystery to me... Bet it's being done by 1 or 2 year "helpers..."


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

Good ole Federal Pacific (FPE) keeps raising its pitiful head. Sure glad I said no when they begged me to come to work for them.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Smart people in here.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

oldsparky52 said:


> Smart people in here.


Thank you


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> @Veteran Sparky , by any chance do you have a pic of the area above the meter center?
> 
> Just curious. I love this kind of stuff.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Thanks for those pics. Seeing that you can remove the conductors from the meter bank with that trough above it makes a temp feed a bit easier if pushed to do that.


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