# Federal Noark



## IBEW191

Press handle to EXTREAM off then turn back on, lol


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## guest

Very odd, isn't it? Schnieder (SqD's parent company now) makes SqD and Federal breakers (Canada)...... wonder if way back then some disgruntled engineers broke off from SqD and formed the oh-so-great Federal Pacific Electric (FPE)? 

What was old is new again I guess........


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## Phil DeBlanc

mxslick said:


> Very odd, isn't it? Schnieder (SqD's parent company now) makes SqD and Federal breakers (Canada)...... wonder if way back then some disgruntled engineers broke off from SqD and formed the oh-so-great Federal Pacific Electric (FPE)?
> 
> What was old is new again I guess........


Back in the 60s, it was "common knowledge" that the Cutler Hammer breaker was a Square D breaker with a different bus connection system. Unfortunately I wasn't positioned or equipped to saw one of each open and look for myself, so I can't say with certainty. From the outside they looked very similar.

Federal goes back a long ways. Given that Federal breakers were thermal trip and Square D was magnetic I doubt there was any connection between the companies.

It's probably difficult for young men carrying a cellphone to fathom a time when it required 5 telephone operators at switchboards to complete a call from my desk to one 30 miles away. It's probably more difficult for an electrician today accustomed to computer managed power to envision a 15,000 square foot store being built with half a dozen unitpannels buried in the walls to provide all the lighting and receptacle needs of the store. 

Breakers were pretty new technology in the 50s, when people were accustomed to opening the door of a fuse panel and reaching right next to an exposed buss to pull a knife switch and everyone was expected to know enough to not touch the buss. Breakers also represented a big up cost over the well known fusebox.

The electrical loads of the 50s rarely included air conditioning, and it would be the 60s before homebuilders started using and advertising Circuit Breakers as an advantage over fuses.


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## Archania

I thought those Sq D's looked just like the CH's. My grandmas house that was built in the late 40's had a CH subpanel just like that.
I think the reason they put that "push handle to EXTREME off" was because they were "new tech" at the time, and people didn't understand the "tripped" position. They would probably just try to switch it back on to no avail...


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## administr8tor

Archania said:


> I thought those Sq D's looked just like the CH's. My grandmas house that was built in the late 40's had a CH subpanel just like that.
> I think the reason they put that "push handle to EXTREME off" was because they were "new tech" at the time, and people didn't understand the "tripped" position. They would probably just try to switch it back on to no avail...



People still do that I get lots of service calls for that:thumbup:


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## ampman

what part of town did you find that


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## crazymurph

I was watching a 70's era movie last night and the bad guy switched off the power before attacking the girl. I swear it was that same piece of equipment.


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## Podagrower

ampman said:


> what part of town did you find that


North end of Orlando, by Leu Gardens.


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## myers2626

I just removed a Federal Noark type MO breaker from a very old house. Wondering what year it was manufactured and if it's worth anything.


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## Norcal

Federal may have been a successor to the electrical div. of Colt (the firearms co) I have a old Colt safety switch that says ""Noark".

C-H, SQ D, Westinghouse, & Federal all had Multi-Breaker panels, my 1943 house SQ D Multi-breakers in the kitchen, C-H & SQ D came out w/ the XO panels & breakers to replace it, the XO's were replaced by the QO & type CH lines. Trumbull (GE) I think also had Multi-Breakers too.


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## gesparky221

I have some GE breakers in the older section of the plant that look just like these. They are getting pretty old, this part of the plant was built in the 40's. I have 2 types, single pole in lighting and receptacle panels and four breakers combined in one unit. Always fun to figure out when one trips and doesn't reset. Most people can't figure them out, the breaker handle moves past the on pos'n when it trips. It normally takes pushing the breaker handle to the right to feel for the tripped one.


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## UncleBill

Phil DeBlanc said:


> Back in the 60s, it was "common knowledge" that the Cutler Hammer breaker was a Square D breaker with a different bus connection system. Unfortunately I wasn't positioned or equipped to saw one of each open and look for myself, so I can't say with certainty. From the outside they looked very similar.
> 
> Federal goes back a long ways. Given that Federal breakers were thermal trip and Square D was magnetic I doubt there was any connection between the companies.
> 
> It's probably difficult for young men carrying a cellphone to fathom a time when it required 5 telephone operators at switchboards to complete a call from my desk to one 30 miles away. It's probably more difficult for an electrician today accustomed to computer managed power to envision a 15,000 square foot store being built with half a dozen unitpannels buried in the walls to provide all the lighting and receptacle needs of the store.
> 
> Breakers were pretty new technology in the 50s, when people were accustomed to opening the door of a fuse panel and reaching right next to an exposed buss to pull a knife switch and everyone was expected to know enough to not touch the buss. Breakers also represented a big up cost over the well known fusebox.
> 
> The electrical loads of the 50s rarely included air conditioning, and it would be the 60s before homebuilders started using and advertising Circuit Breakers as an advantage over fuses.


Federal Pacific was a company out of Los Angeles who 'went out of business' in 1977... they had a problem with their breakers, they wouldn't trip... there were cases where a 20 amp breaker would burn up causing fires... FPE began using Westinghouse breakers to replace theirs then eventually Westinghouse bought them then discontinued the line completely...
anytime you come across a FPE panel you will probably see that some of the breakers have a smooth front... FPE made... and others have a ridged front... Westinghouse made... other than the ridges they are identical breakers... but the FPE's rarely trip... also their buckets tended to burn up before the fuse blew on their Service Entrances


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## Big Pickles

Newark New Jersey, says right on their lables. http://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_History.htm In case you'd like to learn more.


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## Podagrower

Big Pickles said:


> Newark New Jersey, says right on their lables. http://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_History.htm In case you'd like to learn more.


Look at it closer, this is a "Multi-Breaker" panel, not stab lok.


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## Big Pickles

http://www.google.com/search?q=Stab...%3D3%26_nkw%3Dvintage%2Bbreaker%2Bbox;151;225
Ok now this is what I see.


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## Norcal

UncleBill said:


> Federal Pacific was a company out of Los Angeles who 'went out of business' in 1977... they had a problem with their breakers, they wouldn't trip... there were cases where a 20 amp breaker would burn up causing fires... FPE began using Westinghouse breakers to replace theirs then eventually Westinghouse bought them then discontinued the line completely...
> anytime you come across a FPE panel you will probably see that some of the breakers have a smooth front... FPE made... and others have a ridged front... Westinghouse made... other than the ridges they are identical breakers... but the FPE's rarely trip... also their buckets tended to burn up before the fuse blew on their Service Entrances


 
Westinghouse & FPE Stab-Lok breakers do not interchange, they are a unique design like Zinsco/Sylvania, ITE Pushmatic, SQ D QO, & Cutler-Hammer CH.


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## Podagrower

Well, its happened again. I've found my second Federal Noark panel, and it's in a building we are demoing. This one is a stab lok, so it's not as good as the multi breaker one I started this post with, but that's two of them I've found in 20 years.


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## deerslayerjohn

My old home place where I was raised has that same exact Federal Noark panel. I was at the old house today looking for something. I disconnected the panel last fall after a service wire shorted out and blew the SE cable into. I had another sub panel and moved my wires to it as the house was rotting down and all the house was already disconnected. My well is the only thing that is left on the house and I am planing on moveing it and the meter to a panel next to the well. The only thing we had was a 240 volt double circuit to the electric range and every thing else was 120 volts. We always put the house key on top of the box when we went anywhere. My box is a little bit more rusted that your picture. The house was built in 1888 and remodeled in 1950 and that's when we got electricity (Rural Electric Authority) in the county. That makes my box 65 years old, it lasted 64 years and is still good(?) I can't get the rusted cover screws out.


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## mapmd

deerslayerjohn said:


> The house was built in 1888 and remodeled in 1950 and that's when we got electricity (Rural Electric Authority) in the county.


This is in York, SC? I'm amazed you didn't get electricity until 1950. Seems rather late.


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