# question



## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Your pipe fill seems ok.

How bout another hint?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

How are you transitioning from 1.25 to 1.5 ?


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

No violation if I am understanding you correctly. What is the exposed 50 ft attached to? I ran a 10 ft piece under the overhang for glass sliding door entrance a few months ago. It passed inspection.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I have 150 ft of* 2-2-1-4 urd* underground in 1.25" pvc 24" deep. It then emerges from grade and changes to 1.5" pvc schedule 80 for the remaing 50 ft of run exposed. I have an inspector that seems to think there is a violation.


 
And this is, PLEASE


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

brian john said:


> And this is, PLEASE


My guess is #2 (hot), #2 (hot), #1 (neutral) and a #4 Ground

Not sure though.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

brian john said:


> And this is, PLEASE



I think URD is a type of triplex direct burial cable.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> I have an inspector that seems to think there is a violation.


was s/he specifc

~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> was s/he specifc
> 
> ~CS~


Pipe fill.


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

The best guess I can give you is that URD is not one of the conductor types shown in Table 310.104(A) NEC 2011. If the marking on the cable indicates that it is also listed as RHW or some other wet location type of insulation, then you should be OK.

When the power company in this area started requiring inspections of all services, there was quite a bit of URD being installed, and rejected. The big box stores finally wised up & quit selling it.

Also, what size OCPD do you have? Generally, #2 is only good for 90 amps unless the iinstallation is the main feeder or service at a dwelling.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Look at 338.12(B)(2). USE cannot be used above ground except where it terminates.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Look at 338.12(B)(2). USE cannot be used above ground except where it terminates.


So if it doesn't terminate where it goes from 1.25 to 1.5, what's the problem?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> So if it doesn't terminate where it goes from 1.25 to 1.5, what's the problem?


It has to be Dual-rated URD if you're entering a building with it. Is the problem with the wire or with the conduit arrangement?? How did you transition from the 1¼" to the 1½" Pvc?? Where did you get 2-2-1-4 URD ?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Sorry typo, it was 2, 2, 3, 4 and the transition was just a glue in pvc adapter. The URD was dual rated.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Pipe fill.


okay,
wouldn't there be a dif in seperate conductors, or considering the URD a multiconductor cable ....? ~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> okay,
> wouldn't there be a dif in seperate conductors, or considering the URD a multiconductor cable ....? ~CS~


 
That was my arguent that the urd where underground was not required to be in conduit, IMO it could be sleeved in plumbing pipe, drain tile, or short sections of pvc piping that isn't even glued together. It's not technically a conduit. It's a sleeve


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> That was my arguent that the urd where underground was not required to be in conduit, IMO it could be sleeved in plumbing pipe, drain tile, or short sections of pvc piping that isn't even glued together. It's not technically a conduit. It's a sleeve


i've made this very same argument myself McClary

we do define a raceway in art100, it is closed on both ends, ergo captive heat & pipe fill requiremnets of chap 9

any conduit left open , on either end, does not technically qualify as a 'raceway', ergo chap 9 is nonapplicable

trade slang desribes it as_ 'sleeve'_, and we even find some physical protection laungauge , or _short section_ pursuant to this, yet no formal definition(s)

~CS~


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Sorry typo, it was 2, 2, 3, 4 and the transition was just a glue in pvc adapter. The URD was dual rated.


If it is dual rated then I don't see the issue.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If it is dual rated then I don't see the issue.


And if it is just URD it can't be used for NEC applications anyway. 


I am curious what he has.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> And if it is just URD it can't be used for NEC applications anyway.
> 
> 
> I am curious what he has.


I think many people call USE -- URD. But that was my problem, I wasn't sure what he had.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I think many people call USE -- URD. But that was my problem, I wasn't sure what he had.


I agree many do I also know many use unlisted URD because that is how it was always done.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> i've made this very same argument myself McClary
> 
> we do define a raceway in art100, it is closed on both ends, ergo captive heat & pipe fill requiremnets of chap 9
> 
> ...


bingo, that's how I see it



Dennis Alwon said:


> I think many people call USE -- URD. But that was my problem, I wasn't sure what he had.


Yeah, I call it urd out of old habit. It's USE


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yeah, I call it urd out of old habit. It's USE


:thumbsup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Would 1.25 the entire run be ok?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Would 1.25 the entire run be ok?


I don't understand. If it is compliant in one half the run why would it not be for the entire run? I assume the math is okay but without knowing the insulation type it would be hard to figure


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I think you'd have to use the RHW-2 insulation type if it's Dual-rated. An 1¼" Sch40 Pvc conduit is only rated for 3 - #2 RHW-2's so it's probably a fill issue. BUT if it's not a complete conduit system and only used for a sleeve then it shouldn't be an issue. NEC Chapter 9 Table 1 says if its more than 2 conductors, you can only have a 40% fill but, if you look at the notes, it plainly states: (2) Table 1 applies only to complete conduit or tubing systems and is not intended to apply to sections of conduit or tubing used to protect exposed wiring from physical damage.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

To use the dual rated cable the above ground portion would become RHW-2 Conductors and would have to be installed in a conduit. You could not just run the "URD" as a cable above ground. I think this is the issue the inspector is having. The conduit you used is a raceway and not just a sleeve.

USE can't be used as interior wiring but RHW-2 can if it is installed in a raceway.

Chris


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## Svtlightning207 (Apr 2, 2012)

Whats the difference between URD and USE? And how can you tell the difference? Is it listed on the jacket?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Svtlightning207 said:


> Whats the difference between URD and USE? And how can you tell the difference? Is it listed on the jacket?


URD is something like rural underground delivery cable and is not recognized by the nec. USE would be marked USE and as stated most of it today is dual rated so it can be used inside.

What Chris was saying makes sense but if the sleeve is in the ground I am surprised that he called you on that. If that is it you will have to add an unnecessary JB, IMO.


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## Svtlightning207 (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks for the info! I wanted to make sure I didn't have the wrong stuff, my supplier calls it URD as well lol. I went out and checked it to make sure, it says "Type USE 2"


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Svtlightning207 said:


> Thanks for the info! I wanted to make sure I didn't have the wrong stuff, my supplier calls it URD as well lol. I went out and checked it to make sure, it says "Type USE 2"



I have also heard URD called underground residential distribution wire.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

raider1 said:


> To use the dual rated cable the above ground portion would become RHW-2 Conductors and would have to be installed in a conduit. You could not just run the "URD" as a cable above ground. I think this is the issue the inspector is having. The conduit you used is a raceway and not just a sleeve.
> 
> USE can't be used as interior wiring but RHW-2 can if it is installed in a raceway.
> 
> Chris


Chris if the conduit is only connected on one end how is it a conduit system?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Bulldog1 said:


> Chris if the conduit is only connected on one end how is it a conduit system?



I think that is what he is saying. It is not a raceway unless it is connected at both ends to an enclosure of some sort. Heck IMO, A "C" condulet would work at the transition point.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I think that is what he is saying. It is not a raceway unless it is connected at both ends to an enclosure of some sort. Heck IMO, A "C" condulet would work at the transition point.


The way I read it he says it IS a raceway and not a sleeve?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I have also heard URD called underground residential distribution wire.


 I think technically URD is the direct-burial stuff feeding the MV side of a lot of residential pad-mount transformers.

But the term got appropriated to mean all direct-burial conductors, MV and LV.

-John


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