# How Do You Use a Bender?



## travis13

Hey guys, 3rd year here. I have always been taught to use the arrow for offsets. Today I was working around a jman who was telling me he never uses the arrow except for stubs. I didn't have time to ask how he bent offsets. My question to you is: If you were to bend a 4" 30* offset started at 10", would you use the arrow to bend at 10" and 18"? 

If there are any tricks you guys know of for benders please enlighten me. I use the arrow for everything other than 3-points (notch for first bend and arrow for the other two) and "back of 90*" (star).


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## chicken steve

Jack Benfield










~CS~


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## Wirenuting

The book Steve just posted is a great way to learn. Buy a bundle and practice and you'll get better. 


As for the old timer doing it by eye? Yes, with practice you can do it. It's all a matter of using the same spot in the same style bender year after year. The hand just does what the minds eye see's. 

But it's always better to learn the right way first. This way everyone on a job is on the same page.


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## Nvsparky

It does not mater if you use the same spot the bend is going be the distance. I use the front when I bend a off set easier to line up.


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## madbubba

practice is the only way. 3rd years should be able to look at the blue prints and successfully run conduit.


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## 480sparky

Real electricians don't use benders.











:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I've always used the arrow for offsets. Using anything else will either result in an offset that starts too soon or you need to add yet another variable to the math.


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## eejack

When you are making an offset you first have to determine the distance between two bends. What you use as a reference point on the bender is pretty much immaterial, as long as you use it for both bends.

There is nothing wrong with using the arrow, and there is certainly nothing wrong with taking your time to work things out and measure properly so you make the bend properly once, instead of winging it and bending it lots of times.


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## RIVETER

Have you gotten the answer you wanted?


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## cad99

I used mine this week went to trim out a house we get there at the crack of dawn went inside and found a squatter running around the inside in a black hoodie.we hauled @@@ downstairs me and my guy got a half and three quarter bender just in case he was booking it out the door by the time we got them out the truck.so that is how I use a bender.


Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


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## cad99

double post


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## Black Dog

travis13 said:


> Hey guys, 3rd year here. I have always been taught to use the arrow for offsets. Today I was working around a jman who was telling me he never uses the arrow except for stubs. I didn't have time to ask how he bent offsets. My question to you is: If you were to bend a 4" 30* offset started at 10", would you use the arrow to bend at 10" and 18"?
> 
> If there are any tricks you guys know of for benders please enlighten me. I use the arrow for everything other than 3-points (notch for first bend and arrow for the other two) and "back of 90*" (star).


Pipe Bending.

Go buy 100' of 3/4" EMT AND A 3/4" Ideal EMT bender with the handle and the book ,, read the book many times.

Now set up a sheet of plywood in your garage or basement.

Put a 4" square box at the 6 o'clock position 1' above that have a 2" PVC going across your path measure up another foot and make a mark,,,,about 30" to the right place another box at the 3 o'clock position .

Now make a box-offset to come out of your box at the 6 o'clock position then make a 3 point saddle to go over your 2" PVC, then measure to make a 90 DEG bend to your box at the 3 o'clock position make a box-offset to hit the box at the 3 o'clock position, use some one-hole clips to secure your pipe.

You must do this in one piece "NO COUPLINGS"....:laughing:

Doing this is good practice and you can make it even harder for good measure .

Take your time and teach yourself this once you get this down you'll have a much better understanding of bending pipe and installing it like it's a piece of cake.

When you're doing such things as back to back 90's you should use two torpedo levels to make your work perfect the first time.


Have fun messing around with it,as you practice you'll see results within the first 100'.

I've done this myself many times just to get the practice and keep these skills sharp.

Also follow the book Steve posted, and yes use the proper arrows:thumbsup:


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## Shock-Therapy

cad99 said:


> I used mine this week went to trim out a house we get there at the crack of dawn went inside and found a squatter running around the inside in a black hoodie.we hauled @@@ downstairs me and my guy got a half and three quarter bender just in case he was booking it out the door by the time we got them out the truck.so that is how I use a bender.


Did anyone get bent?


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## cad99

Shock-Therapy said:


> Did anyone get bent?


I got a little bent out of shape and my guy about crapped himself.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


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## Shock-Therapy

:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## varmit

Bending is one of those skills that everyone develops their own "best way". As others have said, as long as you use the same point on the bender for both shots, the c-c dimensions are correct and both bends are the same degree, the bend will be accurate. That said, I always align the bend marks at the center of the bends. ( These dimensions will vary depending on bender size and brand. 

Example- 3/4" Ideal mallable iron bender:
15 Deg = 1 1/2 back from arrow, at the "A" in the word "BACK"
30 Deg = 2 1/8 back from arrow, at the "O" in the word "OF"

If you always layout to bend at the center points, it is easier to align multiple parallel runs of different sizes.


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## ponyboy




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## chicken steve

*Oh-oh, yes we're all great pipebenders
(woooooo--oooooo wooooo-ooooo)
Pipe work that goes round and round
(woooooo--oooooo wooooo-ooooo)
Our skills are such ,cause we bend so much
It's art , but no one can tell








Oh-oh, yes we're all great pipe benders
Adrift with concentrics all our own
we've saddled and kicked , and know all the tricks
Yet the art world has left us alone








Too real is this feeling of make believe
Too real is what good pipe math can conceive
(Wooooo-oooo-ooo wooo-ooo-ooo-oooo)








Oh Yes, we're all great pipebenders
No doglegs or kinks with this crowd
We seem to be artisans, you see
Still wearin' toolbelts and a frown








Pipe bending 'cause they're not around
*

~C_(w/apologies to the platters)_S~


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## eddy current

varmit said:


> I always align the bend marks at the center of the bends.


I also use center bends. Great for 3 point saddles. Don't have to take the pipe out of the bender. :thumbsup:


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## eddy current

Black dog has a good idea as well, practice.

Can also borrow a bender from your work and bring home scraps of conduit instead of buying a bundle and bender.


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## freeagnt54

ponyboy said:


> View attachment 39493


I do that on my benders too.


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## Mugs

ponyboy said:


> View attachment 39493


Am I correct in understanding that those are center marks for different degrees of bends?


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## theJcK

wow. great idea. ::thumbsup:: actually for years been eyeball bending. takes a minute to remember the formulas or a quick look at chart on the shaft.


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## DriveGuru

Check out the app called "conduit bend"


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## 480sparky

DriveGuru said:


> Check out the app called "conduit bend"



Conduit Bender Elite.

Offsets (near & far), stub-ups, rolling offsets (near and far), 3- and 4-bend saddles, parallel, kicked, segmented, back-to-back, rectangular/square/round obstructions.


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## DriveGuru

I have it, great app, a monkey like me can bend conduit with this app


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## Black Dog

Pipemaster said:


> Am I correct in understanding that those are center marks for different degrees of bends?


That is correct.:thumbsup:

At around the 3 minute mark this guy explains all the marking's on the bender. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p1CmTtTHp8


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## Wireman584

Go through a Real Apprenticeship Program to learn. If you go through a real program, you don't have to buy anything to learn, they teach you.


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## 480sparky

Wireman584 said:


> Go through a Real Apprenticeship Program to learn. If you go through a real program, you don't have to buy anything to learn, they teach you.



Ah... I see.

So 1. you've never bought a code book and 2. you have it memorized.


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## 1.21gigawatts

Pipemaster said:


> Am I correct in understanding that those are center marks for different degrees of bends?




Yes, as the pipe follows the radius of the shoe, the center of the bend changes with the desired degree.


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## eddy current

ponyboy said:


> View attachment 39493


Is there a bender that comes with center marks on it? I've marked many like that using a protractor etc. Then sent to another site, different benders.


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## MetryTiger

1.21gigawatts said:


> Yes, as the pipe follows the radius of the shoe, the center of the bend changes with the desired degree.


I wish i could say that I understand what you guys are talking about, but I don't. Im decent at bending and the only thing I use the rim notch for is for 3 point saddles. As far as kicks, I usually just eye them up...


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## ponyboy

eddy current said:


> Is there a bender that comes with center marks on it? I've marked many like that using a protractor etc. Then sent to another site, different benders.



Greenlee hand benders have center marks on them but they're hard to use and not nearly as accurate as making your own.


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## ponyboy

MetryTiger said:


> I wish i could say that I understand what you guys are talking about, but I don't. Im decent at bending and the only thing I use the rim notch for is for 3 point saddles. As far as kicks, I usually just eye them up...



When you know where the center of each bend is on the shoe it makes everything you do easier. Instead of guessing and measuring on your kicks you can do the math (same as offset multiplier), figure the shrink, bend the 90 you need, kick to the degree and you're done. Might sound like a lot of work but it's not. It's easy. I've shown many new techniques to a lot of people and it blows their mind how simple it makes the work


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## MetryTiger

ponyboy said:


> When you know where the center of each bend is on the shoe it makes everything you do easier. Instead of guessing and measuring on your kicks you can do the math (same as offset multiplier), figure the shrink, bend the 90 you need, kick to the degree and you're done. Might sound like a lot of work but it's not. It's easy. I've shown many new techniques to a lot of people and it blows their mind how simple it makes the work


So basically i need to find the center of the 30 (for example) then if I want a say 3 inch kick, I use that center mark for 30 and mark at 6 inches from the back of the 90?


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## MetryTiger

Is the shrinkage the same for kicks as well as offsets?...1/4 for 1 of depth? For 30 degree


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## ponyboy

MetryTiger said:


> Is the shrinkage the same for kicks as well as offsets?...1/4 for 1 of depth? For 30 degree



Correct. Mark kick off the back of the 90 and bend to whatever degree. When I do big racks I usually focus on bending to the correct degree rather than the depth. If your math is good and marks are accurate it should all work out


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## Destined_Sparky

ponyboy said:


> Greenlee hand benders have center marks on them but they're hard to use and not nearly as accurate as making your own.


Disagree. I bend conduit with a greenlee bender, never had any problems.


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## Dennis Alwon

I have been in business for about 35 years and I still don't know how to bend pipe well. The little I do I get by with but that is simple offsets, kicks, 90's 45's etc. Saddles, I rarely do but they are a trial and error-- mostly error and yes I may be the guy with the coupling in the middle.

Every now and then I amaze myself with some interesting bends and I get them right the first time. When you rarely do it you forget it but I have never really learned the harder stuff. Maybe before I die I'll figure it out. :laughing:


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## MetryTiger

ponyboy said:


> Correct. Mark kick off the back of the 90 and bend to whatever degree. When I do big racks I usually focus on bending to the correct degree rather than the depth. If your math is good and marks are accurate it should all work out


What do you use to find the center of each degree?


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## eddy current

MetryTiger said:


> What do you use to find the center of each degree?


1. Put conduit in bender and mark it so it can be put back in the same spot.
2. Bend a perfect 30 degree bend using a protractor.
3. Mark the center of the bend on the conduit.
4. Put conduit back in bender and mark the center on the bender


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## eddy current

ponyboy said:


> Greenlee hand benders have center marks on them but they're hard to use and not nearly as accurate as making your own.


Really? Where?


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## cabletie

MetryTiger said:


> So basically i need to find the center of the 30 (for example) then if I want a say 3 inch kick, I use that center mark for 30 and mark at 6 inches from the back of the 90?


It is not from the back of the 90. You have to subtract half the width of the pipe. So your measurement is the center of the pipe at the 90 to the center of the kick. That should put it dead on.


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## RIVETER

travis13 said:


> Hey guys, 3rd year here. I have always been taught to use the arrow for offsets. Today I was working around a jman who was telling me he never uses the arrow except for stubs. I didn't have time to ask how he bent offsets. My question to you is: If you were to bend a 4" 30* offset started at 10", would you use the arrow to bend at 10" and 18"?
> 
> If there are any tricks you guys know of for benders please enlighten me. I use the arrow for everything other than 3-points (notch for first bend and arrow for the other two) and "back of 90*" (star).


I am a "basics" person and I don't understand why you did not have the time to ask your journeyman how he bends offsets. What are you doing with your time?


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## Going_Commando

Dennis Alwon said:


> I have been in business for about 35 years and I still don't know how to bend pipe well. The little I do I get by with but that is simple offsets, kicks, 90's 45's etc. Saddles, I rarely do but they are a trial and error-- mostly error and yes I may be the guy with the coupling in the middle.
> 
> Every now and then I amaze myself with some interesting bends and I get them right the first time. When you rarely do it you forget it but I have never really learned the harder stuff. Maybe before I die I'll figure it out. :laughing:


Same. I've ran more conduit this past year than any time before, and I only ran about 1200-1500' of EMT. It's the kind of thing where you just needs lots of practice to get 'er done. I'm still not very good, but at least it looks less crappy. :laughing:


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## Wireman584

*"A real Apprenticeship"*



480sparky said:


> Ah... I see.
> 
> So 1. you've never bought a code book and 2. you have it memorized.


1. Yes I have bought one, 480sparky. Although the NEC is not the primary reference for bending EMT or any other conduit, it does provide several needed standards.

2. Almost...That's what happens when you teach it.

I'd be happy to share with anyone as to how to apply for a true Apprenticeship Program.:thumbsup:


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## power

In my opinion, bending pipe is a learned skill. There are plenty of suggestions on bending conduit that require math, angles, levels, etc.... However, a person who's experienced doesn't rely on these. True, if your running several parallel runs of conduit (of the same size, and adjacent to each other), using a common/typical series of angles and cut marks will make for a "picture pretty" installation. While whomever accomplished this installation pictured below is impressive, it's meticulous arrangement is not expected. Typically, we install conduits in utility environments or in area's that are not easily/readily/commonly critiqued. The man-hours to produce such "vogue" conduit bending do not generally warrant the costs to do so......after all, we are not "building a piano".


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## theJcK

can always nickpick but am proud of this.


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## Wireman584

*Building a Piano"*



power said:


> In my opinion, bending pipe is a learned skill. There are plenty of suggestions on bending conduit that require math, angles, levels, etc.... However, a person who's experienced doesn't rely on these. True, if your running several parallel runs of conduit (of the same size, and adjacent to each other), using a common/typical series of angles and cut marks will make for a "picture pretty" installation. While whomever accomplished this installation pictured below is impressive, it's meticulous arrangement is not expected. Typically, we install conduits in utility environments or in area's that are not easily/readily/commonly critiqued. The man-hours to produce such "vogue" conduit bending do not generally warrant the costs to do so......after all, we are not "building a piano".


We may not be building a piano however, we are building something more important; a safe place for which our clients do business. If you can put in a similar installation in a timely fashion, I assure you, you'll never be out of a job. You should Gold Plate" everything you do. Our clients see it. "if it looks good, it is good".


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## Wireman584

theJcK said:


> can always nickpick but am proud of this.


Very nice job.


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## sparkylocal3

Using any bender I put scrap pieces in the shoe and mark it at the very front of the bender, then using my level that has a 10 degree, 15 degree and 30 degree bubble use trial and error until I get each one spot on and measure to the center of bend from the mark that I made at the front of the shoe


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## 360max

theJcK said:


> can always nickpick but am proud of this.


you should be proud of it, it looks professionally installed, well done


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## local134gt

power said:


> In my opinion, bending pipe is a learned skill. There are plenty of suggestions on bending conduit that require math, angles, levels, etc.... However, a person who's experienced doesn't rely on these. True, if your running several parallel runs of conduit (of the same size, and adjacent to each other), using a common/typical series of angles and cut marks will make for a "picture pretty" installation. While whomever accomplished this installation pictured below is impressive, it's meticulous arrangement is not expected. Typically, we install conduits in utility environments or in area's that are not easily/readily/commonly critiqued. The man-hours to produce such "vogue" conduit bending do not generally warrant the costs to do so......after all, we are not "building a piano".


The pipe in that picture does look good but its not that hard at all to make it look that good. Hacking it in without math would probably take longer since you'll be constantly rebending and cutting & coupling your pipe while the professional who used the math just lays his pipe right in place.


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## ponyboy

local134gt said:


> The pipe in that picture does look good but its not that hard at all to make it look that good. Hacking it in without math would probably take longer since you'll be constantly rebending and cutting & coupling your pipe while the professional who used the math just lays his pipe right in place.



It never made sense to me to bend and check or guess and go. With a little pre planning and math you can know exactly where every bend and every inch of the pipe is going to end up.


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## MTW

I always bend with math and it comes out perfectly the vast majority of the time.


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## MHElectric

MTW said:


> I always bend with math and it comes out perfectly the vast majority of the time.


I always bend with my eyeball....and then make it fit.


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## Breakfasteatre

have fun making it fit with rigid. I learned very quickly that being accurate is very important, especially if a mistake means you are threading on and off a pipe several times.


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## MHElectric

Breakfasteatre said:


> have fun making it fit with rigid. I learned very quickly that being accurate is very important, especially if a mistake means you are threading on and off a pipe several times.


I spent 6 years working for Bow & Go Electric. Whether it's rigid, pvc, or emt - I can make it fit. :thumbsup:


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## Voltron

MTW said:


> I always bend with math and it comes out perfectly the vast majority of the time.


 are you even an electrician?


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## ampman66

travis13 said:


> If there are any tricks you guys know of for benders please enlighten me.


 One of my favorite tricks with a bender is to use it to smash holes in sheetrock wherever my boxes are supposed to go when the idiot drywallers decide to throw their rock up in a hurry.
Works great.:thumbsup:


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## theJcK

ampman66 said:


> One of my favorite tricks with a bender is to use it to smash holes in sheetrock wherever my boxes are supposed to go when the idiot drywallers decide to throw their rock up in a hurry.
> Works great.:thumbsup:


One of the funniest tricks is to tape a nut in the channel and ask the new helper to bend whatever 90°.. after a few kinks hopefully he will figure it out. Haha.


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## local134gt

travis13 said:


> If there are any tricks you guys know of for benders please enlighten me.


You fill the bender handle with water and bet someone they cant hold the bender with one hand and while locking their elbow raise it over their head.


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## MHElectric

travis13 said:


> If there are any tricks you guys know of for benders please enlighten me.


The handle works great for holding 1000 ft reels of wire or mc.


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## manchestersparky

one of the biggest mistakes I've seen guys do is lean their bender against a wall handle down instead of bender down. The bender falls over and lands on the hook ( shoe). Do this enough and that hook will be bent which will cause doglegs every time.


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