# found 2x 150-amp parallel main panels... ???



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm quoting work in a house that has two side-by-side 150-amp panels, each with main breakers, fed from a trough below by what seems to be 2/0 cable. The trough is fed with 4/0 SEU from the meter can, and that cable is bugged in the trough to the 2/0 feeders to the panel. This doesn't seem right to me. I'm reading this as a 200-amp service, with an ililegally configured set of panels. Other thoughts or opinions?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> I'm quoting work in a house that has two side-by-side 150-amp panels, each with main breakers, fed from a trough below by what seems to be 2/0 cable. The trough is fed with 4/0 SEU from the meter can, and that cable is bugged in the trough to the 1/0 feeders to the panel. This doesn't seem right to me. I'm reading this as a 200-amp service, with an ililegally configured set of panels. Other thoughts or opinions?


Your post says both 2/0 and 1/0, I assume that is just a typo.

Yes, this is a 200A service. When multiple main disconnects are used, the service is sized by the service entrance conductor, not the total of the main disconnects.

For example, it is common to have 3 or 4 100A main breaker panels in a 3 or 4 family house that is fed with a 200A service using 4/0 aluminum.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Your post says both 2/0 and 1/0, I assume that is just a typo.


Yes. Corrected.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Your post says both 2/0 and 1/0, I assume that is just a typo.
> 
> Yes, this is a 200A service. When multiple main disconnects are used, the service is sized by the service entrance conductor, not the total of the main disconnects.
> 
> For example, it is common to have 3 or 4 100A main breaker panels in a 3 or 4 family house that is fed with a 200A service using 4/0 aluminum.


 This seems weird to me -- although in less extreme ways, with multiples, I've done it myself -- one 100, one 150, e.g. With 4x100, or 2x150, it seems easier to overload the service. 



Also, this is in a single family house, although possibly not relevant.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> This seems weird to me. Easy to overload the service.


 I agree that is seems weird, but its the way that the majority of multi-family dwellings are wired and you don't hear about problems.

The service entrance conductors need to be sized to the calculated load of the entire house to avoid overloading them.


> Also, this is in a single family house, although possibly not relevant.


Nope, the same either way.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

It's sorta like you don't add up 42 20amp circuit breakers in a panel and say you need a 840 amp service. I know it's not the same, but sorta the same idea.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HertzHound said:


> It's sorta like you don't add up 42 20amp circuit breakers in a panel and say you need a 840 amp service. I know it's not the same, but sorta the same idea.


Yup, good analogy.

But there is a critical difference which is what makes it a bit weird. In the panel, if you end up pulling a lot of current thru all of those breakers the main is there to trip. In the service, if those multiple panels pull more than the service conductor size, there is nothing to trip.

The same with a single main panel with 6 or less breakers. Like an old 60A service with 6 20A breakers.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

HackWork said:


> In the panel, if you end up pulling a lot of current thru all of those breakers the main is there to trip. In the service, if those multiple panels pull more than the service conductor size, there is nothing to trip.



Exactly.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

In general, 230.90(A) does NOT allow the SECs to be smaller than the rating of the service OCPD. However, once you have 2 to 6 service disconnects you can utilized exception 3 to 230.90(A) which says that as long as the SEC are sized to the calculated load or above it is fine.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

Oh, by the way, Hi Hax :vs_wave::vs_wave::vs_wave:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Pudge!!!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

pudge565 said:


> Oh, by the way, Hi Hax :vs_wave::vs_wave::vs_wave:


Hi Pudge :smile::smile:

How are you old friend?


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Pudge!!!


Mac, how the hell are ya doing!?


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Hi Pudge :smile::smile:
> 
> How are you old friend?


I'm alive, but I am unemployed again, at least I wasn't fired this time...


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Did you ever get laid yet Pudge?


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Did you ever get laid yet Pudge?


Every night...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

pudge565 said:


> Every night...


Not to be rude but, according to Mac Mikie, It only counts if it with another mammal.:wink:


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> Not to be rude but, according to Mac Mikie, It only counts if it with another mammal.:wink:


Bold of you to assume it wasn't another mammal...:wink::devil3::vs_laugh:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> Not to be rude but, according to Mac Mikie, It only counts if it with another mammal.:wink:


Even better - Cloved hoof vs chews the cud............ Duteronomy................


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

macmikeman said:


> Even better - Cloved hoof vs chews the cud............ Duteronomy................


Cloven hoof * and * chews the cud to be kosher Mike

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

pudge565 said:


> I'm alive, but I am unemployed again, at least I wasn't fired this time...


So you only grace us with your presence when you're unemployed? How does one lose a job as and electrical inspector?


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

CoolWill said:


> So you only grace us with your presence when you're unemployed? How does one lose a job as and electrical inspector?


No, I only grace you with my presence when I get on an actual computer and not my phone because using this site on a phone is a pain in the ass.

I lost that job back in September dude, and to answer the question, you do your job too well. Contractors get pissed off at being legitimately failed in a business based system where other inspectors "work with" contractors. Eventually they threaten to use a different agency so the agency you work for has to take action...


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

pudge565 said:


> No, I only grace you with my presence when I get on an actual computer and not my phone because using this site on a phone is a pain in the ass.
> 
> I lost that job back in September dude, and to answer the question, you do your job too well. Contractors get pissed off at being legitimately failed in a business based system where other inspectors "work with" contractors. Eventually they threaten to use a different agency so the agency you work for has to take action...


Damn nizzle. So you were fired from that job, and quit another in between?

I thought you worked for a city inspection department? If so, how can contractors threaten to go with another agency?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

pudge565 said:


> No, I only grace you with my presence when I get on an actual computer and not my phone because using this site on a phone is a pain in the ass.
> 
> I lost that job back in September dude, and to answer the question, you do your job too well. Contractors get pissed off at being legitimately failed in a business based system where other inspectors "work with" contractors. Eventually they threaten to use a different agency so the agency you work for has to take action...


Wow, I thought I taught you better.

You should always be the one with the fattest envelope.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Wow, I thought I taught you better.
> 
> You should always be the one with the fattest envelope.


Pudge is incorruptible... except where it comes to making ET troll accounts for banned members.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

CoolWill said:


> Damn nizzle. So you were fired from that job, and quit another in between?
> 
> I thought you worked for a city inspection department? If so, how can contractors threaten to go with another agency?


No, the majority of PA is third party inspection agencies. Most of the state it is all business based and the contractor has the option of who to use. Some municipalities contract with a single TPA, others have a list of approved and acceptable TPAs a contractor can use, others are "open" to anyone, that is the default for municipalities that opt-out of enforcing the UCC.

No, I was fired as an inspector and just left the employer I was picked up by after that.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

CoolWill said:


> Pudge is incorruptible... except where it comes to making ET troll accounts for banned members.


Who the hell are you lol You must have been from the *** era knowing this, but I can't remember everyone.

Edit: Really, E*J*T is censored :laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

pudge565 said:


> Who the hell are you lol You must have been from the *** era knowing this, but I can't remember everyone.
> 
> Edit: Really, E*J*T is censored :laughing:


It's Steven Miller.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

HackWork said:


> It's Steven Miller.


Impossible, he isn't from South Carolina :vs_no_no_no::whistling2::detective:


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

pudge565 said:


> Who the hell are you lol You must have been from the *** era knowing this, but I can't remember everyone.
> 
> Edit: Really, E*J*T is censored :laughing:


I'm new here, but I have read through a lot of old posts. I'm a quick study.



HackWork said:


> It's Steven Miller.


You will pay. I don't know how yet, but you will.:vs_mad:


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