# Trouble Shooting



## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

How were the butt splices at the service mast? We have a problem with them corroding terribly around here, I would suspect that happens everywhere.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Take amp & volt readings on the service conductors.


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## white (Feb 5, 2009)

I did that when I arived and voltage and current were fine. I turned on all loads in the house. Amps came up to 95 and 82 with every thing on. I waited for well over an hour no proplems. Took out my tools to the truck came back in to say good bye and then it started. Lights dim and everything shoot off. Bad smells out of panel. Checked voltage. 90 volts and 120v on other side to neutral. Checked between hots,ranging from 0v to 200v. Shut off main and called PUD. The meter base melted.


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## white (Feb 5, 2009)

picture


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I see a poorly terminated aluminum conductor.


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## white (Feb 5, 2009)

Nice Zinsco panel.


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## administr8tor (Mar 6, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I see a poorly terminated aluminum conductor.



Loose or missing noalox or what? (I don't work with aluminum)


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

white said:


> Nice Zinsco panel.


A whole-hose fire would have done them a favor.  That is without a doubt the worst ever Zinsco panel!!

And I see a major violation in the lower right corner....


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

mxslick said:


> A whole-hose fire would have done them a favor.  That is without a doubt the worst ever Zinsco panel!!
> 
> And I see a major violation in the lower right corner....


Nah, I've seen worse in the SFV.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

administr8tor said:


> Loose or missing noalox or what? (I don't work with aluminum)



Maybe both.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

SparkYZ said:


> Nah, I've seen worse in the SFV.


LOL..got pics to prove it bud? :laughing:

Then again, there are some really bad areas in SFV..so I guess it would be possible. You run into any FPE's there?


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## white (Feb 5, 2009)

Going To replace panel and meter base today. There was noalox and the connection seamed to be tight. As soon as I touched it the hole jaw broke off. I think it is only a 100amp base though. Maybe thats why it melted down. After looking at it closer the jaws on the other side had been replaced in the past. A 200 anp is going in today. The meter it's self will need to be replaced as it was burnt on the back side.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

white said:


> Going To replace panel and meter base today. There was noalox and the connection seamed to be tight. As soon as I touched it the hole jaw broke off. I think it is only a 100amp base though. Maybe thats why it melted down. After looking at it closer the jaws on the other side had been replaced in the past. A 200 anp is going in today. The meter it's self will need to be replaced as it was burnt on the back side.



Cool!! Don't forget to post the "After" pics so we can admire your work. :thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

white said:


> picture
> View attachment 5885


I have seen plenty of them, but NEVER one with copper wire..

So this is why I only use copper and I don't believe "new and improved".. they can save that sales pitch for breakfast cereal..

If a job specs out AL conductors.. that is what I will use..:thumbsup:


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have seen plenty of them, but NEVER one with copper wire..
> 
> So this is why I only use copper and I don't believe "new and improved".. they can save that sales pitch for breakfast cereal..
> 
> If a job specs out AL conductors.. that is what I will use..:thumbsup:


I've seen an equal number of copper and AL failures in meterbases..the conductor isn't usually the issue, it's the POCO slamming the meters in and damaging the jaws..if you look closely at the damaged jaw in this thread you can see that the jaw itself is arced away, which is what led to the overheating of the lug and wire.


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## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

white said:


> Got a call last Thursday to go look at a grease fire that had happend. The range hood had burnt and the plug behind the stove. A week after this happend electrical proplems started. The night before I got the call the lights would dim and the TV would shut off. I started by turning off the circuit feeding the range hood. The hot was shorted to ground. Breaker not tripped. Replaced several plugs through out house that were in bad shape. About half the plugs are missed wired either open grounds or revered hot neutral. While I was on site there were no voltage proplems or lights dimming. Got a call on Sunday from tenants saying that the lights were dimming , furnace,fridge, and TV shut off. Went to home Monday morning and no proplems since they called the night before. I showed up and checked voltage at main. Checked neutrals. Everthing looked Ok. What was the proplem?


 
With the story you give here, the problems doesn't seem to be from the conductor (if it was loose) in the meter box. You state that the range hood was shorted to ground, yet the CB wasn't tripped? How is that? Some beaucoup amps had to be still going thru back to the panel & nothing tripping & without a Fire?? Usually in a case like this SOMETHING burns open... 
You said everything looked Ok. I don't think just changing out the panel & meter box is the Answer. Something is not kosher there & you need to troubleshoot it further.......................


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## vinroc (Feb 15, 2010)

I believe the problem that you have not found caused the problem with the panel and meter socket. Find it before it finds that new panel and meter.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

vinroc said:


> I believe the problem that you have not found caused the problem with the panel and meter socket. Fid it before it founds that new panel and meter.


 Sorry to ask.......but is English your first language ??


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## vinroc (Feb 15, 2010)

Yes it is but typing fast isnt, give me a break and stay on topic


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

mrmike said:


> With the story you give here, the problems doesn't seem to be from the conductor (if it was loose) in the meter box. You state that the range hood was shorted to ground, yet the CB wasn't tripped? How is that? Some beaucoup amps had to be still going thru back to the panel & nothing tripping & without a Fire?? *Usually in a case like this SOMETHING burns open... *
> You said everything looked Ok. I don't think just changing out the panel & meter box is the Answer. Something is not kosher there & you need to troubleshoot it further.......................





vinroc said:


> I believe the problem that you have not found caused the problem with the panel and meter socket. Find it before it finds that new panel and meter.


Y'all are both wrong..with Zinsco breakers they, like FPE, don't respond well to short circuits, especially if it is some distance from the panel. 

Another thing: A simple short on a branch circuit is very unlikely to draw enough current to melt down a meter jaw....since the OP mentioned that the other side's jaws were previously replaced, the jaw def. went south first. 

Finally, if the shorted circuit was on the leg with the bad jaw, it could have not tripped the breaker due to the current being constantly interrupted or "chopped" by the arcing meter jaw. You all know it is possible to short something out with a loose connection and either never trip even a good breaker, or it will take a long time to trip.



mrmike said:


> *Usually in a case like this SOMETHING burns open... *


Yeah, in this case the meter jaw failed before the breaker tripped. 

It is very unlikely that there is another issue here.


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