# Possible strike...



## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

while the contractors may have a no work stoppage contract, that does not mean you cannot strike. What that does is put your contractors in a really bad position of not being able to man the work they signed contracts for.

The problem ultimately with that though is it does injure the relationship between the customer and the contractor. That may cause them to rethink the next contract they consider signing with a union contractor.

In my local, we actually have a no strike clause in the contract. As long as we are still working under the contract via a letter of agreement, we have to follow that contract. You need to understand the symbiosis that is between the union hands and the contractors. They both need each other and having a bad relationship is often counter-productive to a long term cooperation.

I wish we were in your situation. I'm trying to remember exactly but we often end up with around a $1.50/year on a typical contract. As a matter of fact, our most recent year marker is this Monday. We get a $1.17 increase on the check with the rest being split between the annuity, H&W, and our HBA.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> FWIW, the main sticking point is obviously money. We asked for $6 a year for four years, and they came back with $2.75 a year for three with the fourth year left open for discussion when the time comes Keep in mind that we need to put at least $1 into health and welfare.


so just to clarify, your request would in essence result in $24/hr more in 4 yrs than today? So, if you made $30/hr today, in 2012, that same pay grade would earn $58/hr?

Forget asking the contractors, you may want to go right to the customers and see what they think.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> My local(inside agreement) has been in negotiations and as of this past monday we are out of contract. Last Wednesday we(about 380 members) voted no to the contractors proposals. 19 people voted yes. We have another vote on the 9th because we have to have 50% of the membership for the "no" vote to be official. Thats about 900 members, I'm not sure we'll even get that many people there. I have a couple of comments and a couple of questions.
> 1. We have city and county contracts that clearly state no work stoppages.
> 2. I've heard from numerous people that the IO will not even let my local strike. but I have no way of knowing if thats true at this point.
> My first question is have any of you gone through this? how long was the process leading up to the strike?
> ...


-Why such a drastic step in pay? What's your current hourly?

-Funny you reject 4/10's. We're mulling 3-12's. Cuts down on 2/5ths of your gas and vehicle maintainence bills!

-Personally, if you're not facing any cuts in your medical coverage, or other givebacks, then I'd take the $2.75 a year and run. 

-Although IBEW members respect picket lines, as a local not a one has ever struck it's contractors. Very rarely has a prolonged strike ever been as productive for the members as it seemed it would be when the vote was called.

-There are far better methods of standing your ground or proving your displeasure. 
Slowdown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

STRIKE.............

I can't even discuss this.......but LOSE LOSE is the two words that come to mind.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

brian john said:


> STRIKE.............
> 
> I can't even discuss this.......but LOSE LOSE is the two words that come to mind.


amen to that.


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## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

How on earth can your local justify getting $6 a year when journeymen are getting $44 on the check? You don't know how good you have it. Here in FL the union scales are pitiful, from $19-$24 and most work is industrial, we got a whopping 99 cents last year.


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

REMBER

You never get back what you loose in a strike

AND

YOU CANT RUN A UNION WITHOUT WORK


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> -Why such a drastic step in pay? What's your current hourly?
> 
> -Funny you reject 4/10's. We're mulling 3-12's. Cuts down on 2/5ths of your gas and vehicle maintainence bills!
> 
> ...


-We are asking for alot for many reasons. But mainly it's due to the market. Commercial construction is booming here. We are on average $6-$10 behind the other trades. Also, we started high knowing they would lowball.
It is very expensive to live here. Although our wage seems high, we pay alot in state taxes, have a heavy dues structure and live in one of the most expensive areas in the country
-4/10's would most likely eliminate overtime. it's very reasonable to believe that the contractors would just run separate shifts if the job were to go into overtime ie; one crew would work mon-thurs, while the next would work tues-sat.

I don't think anyone believed we would get $24, but $8.25 with the final year to be determined is a slap in the face.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> -We are asking for alot for many reasons. But mainly it's due to the market. Commercial construction is booming here. We are on average $6-$10 behind the other trades. Also, we started high knowing they would lowball.
> It is very expensive to live here. Although our wage seems high, we pay alot in state taxes, have a heavy dues structure and live in one of the most expensive areas in the country
> -4/10's would most likely eliminate overtime. it's very reasonable to believe that the contractors would just run separate shifts if the job were to go into overtime ie; one crew would work mon-thurs, while the next would work tues-sat.
> 
> I don't think anyone believed we would get $24, but $8.25 with the final year to be determined is a slap in the face.


seriously, what is an A-mans rate in the pocket for you right now?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

surfbh said:


> How on earth can your local justify getting $6 a year when journeymen are getting $44 on the check?


Well, like he said, they're 6-8 bucks behind other trades. Here we're getting $47.00. 



> You don't know how good you have it. Here in FL the union scales are pitiful, from $19-$24 and most work is industrial, we got a whopping 99 cents last year.


If you go to Mike Holt's forum, you'll notice a lot of contractors bellyaching about how the sidejobbers, trunkslammers, and legitimate cut-rate contractors are dragging everyone else down and preventing them all from scoring an easy fortune...

With respect to your position, it's the same issue except the ones dragging down your conditions are the nonunion contractors themselves, who are paying (In Florida) next to nothing for labor, and definately no benefits, pension, or fringes at all. 

If you travel North of the Mason-Dixon line where the sun doesn't bake your head 11 months a year, you'll find that tradesmen a generally a better educated lot, and wouldn't accept a position that paid 75% less because it's 10% cheaper to live there... 

At any rate, there may be some unknown circumstances with the OP, such as previous givebacks or a voluntary stagnation in wages for market recovery in a prior agreement.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

local 332 currently lists wages (JIW) as $44.57/hr + $17.33(total) for H&W, pension, and annuity. 

using a cost of living calculator, Russian is behind what I earn (comparitively using cost of living figures) with a JIW making $30/hour + bene's.

The raise they are seeking (presuming it is a total package number) still would not bring them to my level.

It sounds like a huge number but in relative comparison to what they are earning now, it really isn;t.

I would still caution you against a strike. There are often no winners and two losers in a strike.

and thanks to you, landguysparky, for the complement. We do like to believe we are smarter than the average bear up here.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

nap, thanks. You were able to put it in a way that I was unable to. That is a total package number. We would most likely put at least $1 directly into H&W, and another $.50 or so into the pension. So a $2.75 raise would net us about $1.25 on the check. Not bad if you don't consider the daily raise in gas and food prices
The last thing I want to do is strike. I'm hoping that at the meeting on Monday they have better news for us.


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## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Well, like he said, they're 6-8 bucks behind other trades. Here we're getting $47.00.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I realize this and am in the process of transferring out of this god forsaken place, I was born here along with my family so I didn't move here for pathetic wages but will be moving because of them!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Yet taxes are driving northerners south.......My cousin in Rochester NY pays 2,000.00 more a year for a ranch house on 1/4 acre. I have a nice home on 10 acres with pool, and while I thought my taxes were high....

Heard on the news that New Jersey is the fastest growing shrinking states.


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## norcalbay (Jun 17, 2008)

Russian-
Let us know the outcome of your next vote. I know at 595's last meeting they talked about you guys rejecting the contract. I imaging you cannot stop working city and county contracts due to the fact they are probably PLA's. But, everything else would probably be on the table. Good luck to you guys.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

brian john said:


> Yet taxes are driving northerners south.......My cousin in Rochester NY pays 2,000.00 more a year for a ranch house on 1/4 acre. I have a nice home on 10 acres with pool, and while I thought my taxes were high....
> 
> Heard on the news that New Jersey is the fastest growing shrinking states.


 
The house my last ex has a few blocks from the beach in Monmouth Cty., NJ (3300 sqft contemp. on less than 1/4 acre) is over $9k a year in taxes.


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## bulldog1770 (May 27, 2008)

surfbh said:


> How on earth can your local justify getting $6 a year when journeymen are getting $44 on the check? You don't know how good you have it. Here in FL the union scales are pitiful, from $19-$24 and most work is industrial, we got a whopping 99 cents last year.


 
*If you Sutherners would stay in your territory and stop coming North, to make big $$$$$$$.......You could negotiate better conditions---it wasn't dropped into our LAP... We fought year after year for our conditions....We have it good becasue we fought for it!!!!! :thumbsup:*


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## bulldog1770 (May 27, 2008)

In todays economy--strike equals---shooting thyself in the foot! Too many people will look at it in a bad way! Too many people out of work, to NOT work... Choose your battles...:thumbsup:


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

bulldog1770 said:


> *If you Sutherners would stay in your territory and stop coming North, to make big $$$$$$$.......You could negotiate better conditions---it wasn't dropped into our LAP... We fought year after year for our conditions....We have it good becasue we fought for it!!!!! :thumbsup:*


 
Are you Union? If so what local?


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## bulldog1770 (May 27, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> Are you Union? If so what local?


743... ticket is benched--office guy now....:thumbsup:


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

We FINALLY settled:thumbup::thumbup: Sorry for not keeping up with this post, but I've been busy. We had two no votes, which meant a final vote last night. They came back with $12 over 3 years, with $3 a year on the check. They dropped all of their items. Last weeks vote was 650+/- no and 201 yes. last nights vote was something like 800 yes and 100 something no. we had the IO's backing and were close to striking. Luckily the contractors were willing to go back into negotiations. The PLA jobs would have continued to work, which would have been weird, cause alot of guys would have continued working
I'm really stoked to have a job to go to next monday


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

good tp hear.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> *If you Sutherners would stay in your territory and stop coming North, to make big $$$$$$$.......You could negotiate better conditions---it wasn't dropped into our LAP... We fought year after year for our conditions....We have it good becasue we fought for it!!!!! *




I think my benifit and wages probalby beats anything you may get.

In addition the flight south has been going on for a quite few years. ever heard of Florida?

Though southern workers will flood the north in lean times, for the most part the migration has been into the south.

In reality the south might win the war yet.

Oh and I'm from further north than you, of this I am sure.


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## surfbh (Jun 1, 2008)

bulldog1770 said:


> *If you Sutherners would stay in your territory and stop coming North, to make big $$$$$$$.......You could negotiate better conditions---it wasn't dropped into our LAP... We fought year after year for our conditions....We have it good becasue we fought for it!!!!! :thumbsup:*


You have no clue how many Northerners come down here and work for peanuts in addition to their big pensions. Or how many come down here and work RAT, not to mention all the illegals. So you think someone like me, whose family has been here over 120 years should just stay in my territory? Not going to happen, I deserve better!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Facts are, since the days where Nomads ruled, when the times get bad man moves on. Woman's lib be damned, most men are still the primary breadwinner and have a need/obligation to feed their family. Things get tough and you relocate.

From Europe (hell every country in the world) to America
From the east to California in the 1930's.
From the south to the north for factory jobs since the inception of the industrial revolution.
And from points south to North America.

Washington DC is heavily populated with folks from Pennsylvania, North Carolina and West VA.

And in my opinion Susan Sarandon (SP?) can migrate to hell for all I care, if McCain wins. Cause few people leave here and most want to be here.
And I am no "Love It Or Leave It Kind Of Guy" Heck I think very little of any politician but if the majority elect them I stand by the majority while working (or praying) for change.


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