# MCAP with Arlington snap in 38AST



## Julius793 (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm going to be using mcap on a project and wanted to use snap ins as well. Spoke to Arlington and they say the ratings are there. I wanted to know what everyone thought? Good or bad idea?


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## btharmy2 (Mar 11, 2017)

I absolutely LOVE the Arlington 38AST MC connectors.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

You should for 75 cents a piece.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> You should for 75 cents a piece.


I pay about half that. It's all we use on a rat rope job.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Julius793 said:


> I'm going to be using mcap on a project and wanted to use snap ins as well. Spoke to Arlington and they say the ratings are there. I wanted to know what everyone thought? Good or bad idea?


Make sure to fire anyone that tries to stuff a red head in the MC before they put one of those on.
I try to pull them off the roll or coil before the guys see them to avoid the problem.


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## btharmy2 (Mar 11, 2017)

Southeast Power said:


> Julius793 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to be using mcap on a project and wanted to use snap ins as well. Spoke to Arlington and they say the ratings are there. I wanted to know what everyone thought? Good or bad idea?
> ...


 How is installing a redhead a problem? I have gone back on repairs where people did not install redheads. I understand they are not required, but the plastic bushing in that connector only protects the wire from the connector. It doesn't protect of the wire from the edge of the MC cable especially when somebody gets rough terminating in a panel and jerks the cable around at the connector location. A little extra insurance never heard anybody.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

btharmy2 said:


> How is installing a redhead a problem? I have gone back on repairs where people did not install redheads. I understand they are not required, but the plastic bushing in that connector only protects the wire from the connector. It doesn't protect of the wire from the edge of the MC cable especially when somebody gets rough terminating in a panel and jerks the cable around at the connector location. A little extra insurance never heard anybody.


A couple of things,
The connector is listed without it and it doesn't fit well inside there.
Second, when correctly installed, the jacket is very well isolated from the conductors. Yes it's very possible to leave a sharp piece of MC jacket inside but, you can teach yourself to cut and trim the jacket in a way to eliminate that risk.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I put the red bushing in with those connectors too, I am that kind of a paranoid belt and suspenders mother****er in all things. It seems like it seats in the connector just the same way.


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## btharmy2 (Mar 11, 2017)

Southeast Power said:


> btharmy2 said:
> 
> 
> > How is installing a redhead a problem? I have gone back on repairs where people did not install redheads. I understand they are not required, but the plastic bushing in that connector only protects the wire from the connector. It doesn't protect of the wire from the edge of the MC cable especially when somebody gets rough terminating in a panel and jerks the cable around at the connector location. A little extra insurance never heard anybody.
> ...


I've done exclusively tenant finish work MC cable for 17 years. I have literally used thousands of those connectors and have never had the red head present installation. I have also never had a connector short out that had a redhead in it.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Since MC doesn't need the red head regardless of the connector, it's hit or mis on when I use one. With a box clamp I would use one. With a screw type duplex I wouldn't, it's going to fall out before I ever get it in the box. Most problems I see are the wires shorted on a clamp when the device is shoved in the box. That's one reason I hate box clamps. Box fill with the clamps is the other. 

Most of the time the 38AST suck. 3838AST's are even worse. 40AST's and 4040AST are where it's at.


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## btharmy2 (Mar 11, 2017)

cabletie said:


> Since MC doesn't need the red head regardless of the connector, it's hit or mis on when I use one. With a box clamp I would use one. With a screw type duplex I wouldn't, it's going to fall out before I ever get it in the box. Most problems I see are the wires shorted on a clamp when the device is shoved in the box. That's one reason I hate box clamps. Box fill with the clamps is the other.
> 
> Most of the time the 38AST suck. 3838AST's are even worse. 40AST's and 4040AST are where it's at.


You are correct on the 40s being better.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

The problem with those is the wire range and number of is a narrow window.
The 38AST is rated for a 12/2 to 12/4. The more you fill it, the better chance of nicking the conductor. I know there are some that will say they installed 1 billion and never had a problem. That great, keep using them. That doesn't mean that the next person that's less careful won't have a problem with 1 nick installing a box of them. 

Then there are the people that don't grab the right size. They don't know or don't care enough to get the right one. They will make it fit.

Many buildings here have cans mounted above the ceiling for the MC, then conduit down to the panel. Pulling many feet of wire thru these is a PITA IMO and takes more time. 

We always install anti-shorts. It just gets expected in certain areas. Kinda like running a equipment ground in EMT. Not required in most cases. You leave out the EG around here and most think you did it wrong. The red reads never hurt nobody. We all seen times where a red read would have prevented a failure. The Arlington snap to it connectors like 38AST have a note for anti shorts for CSA (Canada). 

Removing them from the box is no joy. If you pull one off the cable your red will always be stuck in there.

If I hate them so much why did I use and order so many? Some of it was that's what someone else ordered for the job or truck. Thinking they're faster. I ordered thousands of every size for rework. The reason was certain times they worked better. Such as when existing holes drilled in a box are too close together or need to squeeze in 1 more. Or they fit the cables better. We had so many different cable sizes, sometimes certain connectors didn't fit well because they were an in between size.


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## Julius793 (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm not sure why we are discussing redhead bushings here. The main point I was trying to discussing was that MCAP is using the internal ground which is now relying on snapin connections


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Julius793 said:


> I'm not sure why we are discussing redhead bushings here. The main point I was trying to discussing was that MCAP is using the internal ground which is now relying on snapin connections


IMO the spring snap in connection is better than screws and locknuts. Springs don't loosen up like locknuts, although they do seem like a looser connection. 

I was on a hospital expansion job a few years ago where they would only allow the snap in connectors on the MCAP and HFC/MCAP. The engineer's reasoning was because it was a better connection and wouldn't loosen up.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

cabletie said:


> IMO the spring snap in connection is better than screws and locknuts. Springs don't loosen up like locknuts, although they do seem like a looser connection.
> 
> I was on a hospital expansion job a few years ago where they would only allow the snap in connectors on the MCAP and HFC/MCAP. The engineer's reasoning was because it was a better connection and wouldn't loosen up.


I want the locknut to be better and it's certainly better when it's tight, but that does make sense...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

btharmy2 said:


> How is installing a redhead a problem? I have gone back on repairs where people did not install redheads. I understand they are not required, but the plastic bushing in that connector only protects the wire from the connector. It doesn't protect of the wire from the edge of the MC cable especially when somebody gets rough terminating in a panel and jerks the cable around at the connector location. A little extra insurance never heard anybody.


The connector has the conductors come out thru a small hole which limits their lateral movement, stopping them from being abraded by the sheath.



btharmy2 said:


> I've done exclusively tenant finish work MC cable for 17 years. I have literally used thousands of those connectors and have never had the red head present installation. I have also never had a connector short out that had a redhead in it.


I only had 15 years working with MC so you got me there. but I have probably only used 20 or so redheads during that time. And I have never had a short at the connector either. The shorts are from people snapping the cable and cutting it with their dyles and leaving that sharp edge facing inwards. Cutting it with a Rotosplit gives it a clean and safe edge.


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