# Heater Running Continiously



## kyler_dorsey (Jul 4, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> I'm looking at installing an electric heater in a block concrete stairwell that currently has no heat. The stairwell is three stories high. My concern is that if we install the electric heater it may run for long periods of time or even continuously through out the winter. Would this be a potential issue or concern I should consider? Do to limitations of the existing electrical service, we are limited to installing one electric heater at this time. The heater will be installed on the lowest level above or near the entry way door.
> 
> Heater Specs.
> 
> ...


I think as long as you size your wire and breaker for continuous duty (125%) then it should be fine.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Some of those heaters are made to run continuous... just use 125% for circuit and you are good to go.....


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

B4T said:


> Some of those heaters are made to run continuous... just use 125% for circuit and you are good to go.....


My main concern is finding a heater that's rated for running Continiously.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If the stairwell is 3 stories then I would have heaters on each level with built in t-stats


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> I'm looking at installing an electric heater in a block concrete stairwell that currently has no heat. The stairwell is three stories high. My concern is that if we install the electric heater it may run for long periods of time or even continuously through out the winter. Would this be a potential issue or concern I should consider? Do to limitations of the existing electrical service, we are limited to installing one electric heater at this time. The heater will be installed on the lowest level above or near the entry way door.
> 
> Or should the heater be installed halfway up the stairwell?
> 
> ...


If you can only install one, put it at the bottom. I see nothing that would prevent you from running it continuously.


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> My main concern is finding a heater that's rated for running Continiously.


Any commercial heater is good for that, residential ones are not


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Wow, w/out a fan and some duct (to blow air from the top to the bottom), won't it be really warm/hot at the top and rather chilly at the bottom?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If the stairwell is 3 stories then I would have heaters on each level with built in t-stats


That would be ideal but, the biggest limitation is the existing building electrical service.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Wow, w/out a fan and some duct (to blow air from the top to the bottom), won't it be really warm/hot at the top and rather chilly at the bottom?


Just a guess but I bet it is cold at the bottom due to an exterior door at the bottom floor.

If that is the case a heater on that level should work.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Just a guess but I bet it is cold at the bottom due to an exterior door at the bottom floor.
> 
> If that is the case a heater on that level should work.


Good point, but won't there still be a big temperature difference between the top and bottom?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Just a guess but I bet it is cold at the bottom due to an exterior door at the bottom floor.
> 
> If that is the case a heater on that level should work.


That's part of the problem. The concrete block stairwell was added in the 80's. Each floor has a fire rated door that must remain closed at all times, the block probably was never filled with insulation and the stairwell was never heated.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Good point, but won't there still be a big temperature difference between the top and bottom?


No doubt, but that pretty much applies to most stairways.

I don't usually see ducted heat to stairways due to fire codes / smoke concerns. 

I usually see fan forced unit heaters at one or more landings. Of course
I am talking hotels / motels / apartments / commercial / retail etc. not really single family dwellings.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Good point, but won't there still be a big temperature difference between the top and bottom?


I assume their will be a temperature difference as heat rises.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> No doubt, but that pretty much applies to most stairways.
> 
> I don't usually see ducted heat to stairways due to fire codes / smoke concerns.
> 
> ...


This isn't a single family dwelling more like a sorority house.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> That's part of the problem. The concrete block stairwell was added in the 80's. Each floor has a fire rated door that must remain closed at all times, the block probably was never filled with insulation and the stairwell was never heated.


If the building has a fire alarm you might be able to pin the doors open with fire alarm released holders. I know, that is way off what you are doing, just throwing it out there.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> If the building has a fire alarm you might be able to pin the doors open with fire alarm released holders. I know, that is way off what you are doing, just throwing it out there.


They have an older fire alarm monitoring system. It works well.:whistling2:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> This isn't a single family dwelling more like a sorority house.


Need help?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

From what I understand, I have these options:

Commercial grade wall mount unit heater with built in t-stat.
Installation by main entry door
Check to see if door closures could be integrated with existing fire alarm system.

Thanks everyone for the help.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> Need help?


We're doing it over winter break. Sorry.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> We're doing over winter break. Sorry.


 Oh no!


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> This isn't a single family dwelling more like a sorority house.


Why are you in a sorority house? :001_huh:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If you can install a 2000 watt heater at the bottom you probably can install a 500 watt or 750 watt heater on each level


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Another thought would be to install some type of circulating fan on the top level of the stairwell.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> That's part of the problem. The concrete block stairwell was added in the 80's. Each floor has a fire rated door that must remain closed at all times, the block probably was never filled with insulation and the stairwell was never heated.


Just curious, why was it decided to heat it now? It's been fine for 3 decades, but not anymore?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> Why are you in a sorority house? :001_huh:


Because we are the preferred vendor of that sorority.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Just curious, why was it decided to heat it now? It's been fine for 3 decades, but not anymore?


Because they are now concerned about the walls and floor frosting up and potentially causing a fall hazard.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Wow, w/out a fan and some duct (to blow air from the top to the bottom), won't it be really warm/hot at the top and rather chilly at the bottom?


If anyone knows me by now, they know what I would do: install a commercially rated ceiling fan at the top of the stairs to destratify the heat.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Commercial grade wall mount unit heater with built in t-stat.


If there is a good location for one I would suggest a wall mount T-stat. In my opinion the unit mounted ones do not work as well maintaining a steady temperature.

But obviously a unit mounted one does save work and $.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Because we are the preferred vendor of that sorority.


Its one of the few sororities for women with severe body odor issues.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> If anyone knows me by now, they know what I would do: install a commercially rated ceiling fan at the top of the stairs to destratify the heat.


And in a typical 3 story stairwell I think that would be a total waste of time and money.

If the stairway happens to have a open center from top to bottom I would go with something like this. http://www.theairpear.com/products.html/index.html


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> If there is a good location for one I would suggest a wall mount T-stat. In my opinion the unit mounted ones do not work as well maintaining a steady temperature.
> 
> But obviously a unit mounted one does save work and $.


I was looking the possibility of remotely mounting the T-stat on the second floor landing interior wall.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> If there is a good location for one I would suggest a wall mount T-stat. In my opinion the unit mounted ones do not work as well maintaining a steady temperature.
> 
> But obviously a unit mounted one does save work and $.


Wall mount in a stairwell sounds like a waste of time due to the masonry structure...


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

B4T said:


> Wall mount in a stairwell sounds like a waste of time due to the masonry structure...


I'd agree but I know how to bend pipe and I have an18v sds.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Wall mount in a stairwell sounds like a waste of time due to the masonry structure...


At least one of the four stairway walls is against the heated structure.

But that is why I said '_If there is a good location for it._'


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

A ceiling fan in this instance would be a horrible idea. There is no existing heat right now so the fan would just make it cold. 
I hate ceiling fans


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> I'd agree but I know how to bend pipe and I have an18v sds.


Maybe some day you will be able to put together a post like a professional instead of sounding like a jerk... :no::no:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If you can install a 2000 watt heater at the bottom you probably can install a 500 watt or 750 watt heater on each level


The idea is to combat the single biggest source of cold air infiltration - an exterior door that is opening and closing.

Realistically, though, 2KW is going to do squat if frost buildup on the steps is a concern no matter where you put it..


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

BBQ said:


> And in a typical 3 story stairwell I think that would be a total waste of time and money.


Installed a 56" fan in a larger open 2 story stairwell. I cant remember if it was heated at the top or the bottom. The result was, during the coldest months with the heater running, it was 5-10 degrees warmer on average at the lower floor.

I have no idea how to determine if the cost was justified. The fans I use ran a little over $150.




BBQ said:


> If the stairway happens to have a open center from top to bottom I would go with something like this. http://www.theairpear.com/products.html/index.html


I was going to link that exact product if there was further interest in this discussion, but I've never used them myself. I am partial to higher end conventional paddle fans. That said, these seem like they would be a very effective design.




sbrn33 said:


> A ceiling fan in this instance would be a horrible idea. There is no existing heat right now so the fan would just make it cold.


The ceiling fan was suggested in conjunction with the heater, not in place of.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If you're really concerned about melting frost on the stair treads, you might consider radiant heat above the stairways. At least that way you are heating the stairs and not the air. You can cycle them to heat one flight of stairs at a time.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

I would think that one 2 KW heater in a three story, uninsulated stairway would not be a very effective heat source, unless the outside ambient temperature is only cool and not really cold. 

Unless the stairway is located to where the sun shines on it directly, there probably will not be that great of heat gain at the top floor, from a first floor heater, due to convective heat loss from all of the wall surfaces. With your limitations of the existing building and limited load availability, a slightly better option, to a wall mounted convection heater, could be to install a ceiling hung unit heater with an integral blower. I would install this unit heater on the first floor.

A huge factor for heating efficiency wold be the frequency of the outside door opening. Trying to fix something that was installed poorly in the beginning is always a challenge. Good luck to you.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Its one of the few sororities for women with severe body odor issues.


And facial hair.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> And facial hair.


Is that where you find your dates?:whistling2::thumbup::laughing:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Is that where you find your dates?:whistling2::thumbup::laughing:


Maybe.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Is that where you get turned down for dates?:whistling2::thumbup::laughing:


Fify


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> Fify


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Because they are now concerned about the walls and floor frosting up and potentially causing a fall hazard.


Did the frost just start occurring or have they just ignored it in the past?

Pete


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Pete m. said:


> Did the frost just start occurring or have they just ignored it in the past?
> 
> Pete


I believe they've always ignored it. Suddenly it's a concern for them.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I think they are having a longer stretch of cold weather than normal.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I think they are having a longer stretch of cold weather than normal.


We are and it started earlier and has lasted. The head of maintenance has been thinking of having heat added to the stairwell for the last few years.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I think they are having a longer stretch of cold weather than normal.


Can't happen, better check the charts.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Found this watts to BTU calculator.

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/Watt_to_BTU.htm


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Seldom are concrete fire escape type stairwells heated to "comfort temperatures" anyhow. Just enough so they're not as cold as outdoors, and enough so that the sprinklers don't freeze. The stats are normally set around 55 degrees F, and they often do run continuously.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Update:

After speaking with a Berko rep, they stated no electric fan heater is designed to run Continiously residential or commercial model. We installed one 4000 watt, 240 volt commercial grade heater in the lower landing of the stairwell. It hasn't shut off since being installed. I'm thinking of putting the heater on a timer to shut it off every 4-5 hours of running. I would have the heater shutdown for a half hour to and hour at a time. Maybe 3 or 4 times a day. Would it make sense to do it this way?


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

It would extend the life a little but I don't think it's worth it.

ETA: The life would be extended only by the amount of off time.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I agree with 8V.

What would allow it to turn off on it's own? More heaters per square foot? Circulating fans? More insulation?


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## Julius793 (Nov 29, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> I'm looking at installing an electric heater in a block concrete stairwell that currently has no heat. The stairwell is three stories high. My concern is that if we install the electric heater it may run for long periods of time or even continuously through out the winter. Would this be a potential issue or concern I should consider? Do to limitations of the existing electrical service, we are limited to installing one electric heater at this time. The heater will be installed on the lowest level above or near the entry way door. Or should the heater be installed halfway up the stairwell? Heater Specs. Berko FRA Series - Commercial Fan-Forced Wall Heaters 240 volt, 2000 watt


How about gas heaters if the service is too small for electrician each floor


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