# skilled trades delimma



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

IMO, when work eventually pics up around the entire country, there will be a shortage. Right now, I think many people are employed outside their specialty/education/training just for employment (ie; teachers/graduates working construction, etc.).


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Silver tsunami. When the baby boomers retire.... The utility companies are very afraid.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes, I beleive it. It's based on the bell curve of birth rate of western/industrial countrys, and the baby boomers are on the far side and low on the curve.
Some industrial country's have a flat birth rate.

On average we as a generation are not having the same amount of children as our parents.

I beleive the boomers go up till 1963.

The FDA approved the pill came in 1957, that didn't help.


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

mr hands said:


> Silver tsunami. When the baby boomers retire.... The utility companies are very afraid.


When will this become evident?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I think we are already there.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

It's pretty insane here in Alberta. I don't think it's ever been easier to get into the trades here, and I bet it'll only get crazier in the years to come. I had to turn down three other EC job offers back in October when I was leaving the army and getting back into the trade as a 1st year. There's just that much work to be had, even for guys greener than this green guy.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

CADPoint said:


> Yes, I beleive it. It's based on the bell curve of birth rate of western/industrial countrys, and the baby boomers are on the far side and low on the curve.
> Some industrial country's have a flat birth rate.
> 
> On average we as a generation are not having the same amount of children as our parents.
> ...


Baby Boomers - 1946 to 1964


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

cthermond said:


> Is there really a looming skilled trades delimma? I keep hearing, and have read about a significant skilled trades shortage including electricians worldwide and inthe U.S. It seems to me to be the opposite, a shortage of work, What do you think?


There is a shortage of qualified men who are will to except the lowest standard of living,willing to work for minimum wage and live in public housing and get their food with food stamps,so the establishment republicans and democrats are working together to pass immigration reform to undercut us all by flooding the labor market with more than 30,000,000 workers over the next decade.

Wages for tradesmen are too high and gives these people too much money to spend on stupid things such as their own homes and other stupid things they really MUST be not allowed to have.

This is what the last six years was all about , They held economic activity to a minimum hoping to break us down in wages,but we stood firm,Now they want stuff built,But their new plan is to flood the labor market with 30,000,000 immigrants to cut the wages back down to the absolute minimum,and they will even cut the standards to get those wages down.

They're such nice guys,don't ya know.....:no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

mr hands said:


> Silver tsunami. When the baby boomers retire.... The utility companies are very afraid.


They will have to pay wages a man can live on.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> There is a shortage of qualified men who are will to except the lowest standard of living,willing to work for minimum wage and live in public housing and get their food with food stamps,so the establishment republicans and democrats are working together to pass immigration reform to undercut us all by flooding the labor market with more than 30,000,000 workers over the next decade.
> 
> Wages for tradesmen are too high and gives these people too much money to spend on stupid things such as their own homes and other stupid things they really MUST be not allowed to have.
> 
> ...


Harry, it's been an anti labor/ anti worker/ anti union environment for a lot longer than six years.

Do we really think 30,000,000 people are here illegally since Reagan signed the immigration reform and control act of 1986? 
He only got 3,000,000 
And 10years later, Clinton cherry picked a few countries and signed in another 3,000,000.
So, historically we are due about 4,500,000.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Harry, it's been an anti labor/ anti worker/ anti union environment for a lot longer than six years.
> 
> Do we really think 30,000,000 people are here illegally since Reagan signed the immigration reform and control act of 1986?
> He only got 3,000,000
> ...


http://www.hrpolicy.org/downloads/2013/CHRO_Immigration_Reform_Letter.pdf


Business pushes immigration reform even as it lays off American workers
BY BYRON YORK | OCTOBER 3, 2013 AT 17:42 EST



But Obama, who won re-election with overwhelming Hispanic backing, had hoped to make reforms easing the plight of the 11 million immigrants who are in the United States illegally.


He’s also pushing the Senate’s immigration rewrite, which would triple legal immigration over 10 years to 33 million. The Senate’s bill also would almost double the current population of 750,000 university-trained foreign guest workers who compete for jobs sought by America’s annual class of 800,000 university-trained technical professionals.





*Business groups* that want Republicans to compromise more with Democrats and Washington's permanent political class on comprehensive immigration reform may declare war on Tea Party candidates by putting money behind moderate and centrist candidates in Republican primaries.

According to the Wall Street Journal, groups like the Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable are thinking about "backing challengers to tea-party conservatives in GOP primaries, increasing political engagement with centrist Republicans." The Chamber of Commerce is reportedly "researching" what races they can influence in GOP primaries "in hopes of replacing tea-party conservatives with more business-friendly pragmatists" who would include support for comprehensive immigration reform. 


*********


There is a ton of more articles just on this topic alone,and it's all an attack on the wages of the little guy.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> There is a shortage of qualified men who are will to except the lowest standard of living,willing to work for minimum wage and live in public housing and get their food with food stamps,so the establishment republicans and democrats are working together to pass immigration reform to undercut us all by flooding the labor market with more than 30,000,000 workers over the next decade.
> 
> Wages for tradesmen are too high and gives these people too much money to spend on stupid things such as their own homes and other stupid things they really MUST be not allowed to have.
> 
> ...


I think Harry's got it. The reason I'm getting out of the trade is they were trying to pay me 18 an hour and they put me as foreman of a lighting crew on a $10,000,000 dollar job. Of course everything came on no problems but they wouldn't give me more than 19. There's guys running work for in the teens and that is BS!

So I said if you don't want to pay me than I'll just be a reg mechanic why would I want all this extra headache when the guys below me make what I make sometimes more. So they put me back as a mechanic then 3 weeks later laid me off saying they could only keep their foreman and helpers.

I could go on for a few more paragraphs but this **** is BS!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

the Caller is an entertainment and opinion blog so, I'm not hanging on to that one so much.
The GOP is looking real bad right now and could really use some leadership to steer it straight again. It's taking a hard core right turn and heading for the Devil's Triangle, again.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> the Caller is an entertainment and opinion blog so, I'm not hanging on to that one so much.
> The GOP is looking real bad right now and could really use some leadership to steer it straight again. It's taking a hard core right turn and heading for the Devil's Triangle, again.


Huh!:blink::laughing:

They're so far left they make 1960's democrats look conservative :laughing:


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## sparky402 (Oct 15, 2013)

When i first got my EC i worked for a hvac company and i did there furnace/ac hook ups and permits. I was only getting $17 and they told me for a raise i had to fire someone even though we were already short handed.


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

conclusion: no real shortage of skilled workers. only a shortage of businesses willing to pay their workers what they should.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

cthermond said:


> When will this become evident?


And they hire illegals made legal by our government at a lower pay scale. A win win for the rate payers:no::blink:


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

Boy,

all this negativity toward the wonderful "job creators"?:laughing:

Why else do you thing Republicans hate Unions? 

Pretty simple, they want cheap labor. And now they will get it, and now all you who make less then 400k and vote Republican, can reap the reward along with the rest of America.

Yeah, you won the boobie prize!:thumbsup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

lefleuron said:


> Boy,
> 
> all this negativity toward the wonderful "job creators"?:laughing:
> 
> ...


In case you missed the press notice The Dems are pressing for cheap labor, legalize the illegals and open the flood gates for more.

The Reps dislike unions because the unions use all their political cash for the Dems. If they spread it around there would be Reps pulling for unions.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I think pay is definitely a huge part of this equation.

But I do wonder with the continually shrinking unions and the decline of trades training in public schools if we really don't have a much smaller labor pool of skilled workers than several decades ago?

It'd be interesting to look at the number of people being licensed and being accepted into trade organizations, and see how that has declined.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Big John said:


> I think pay is definitely a huge part of this equation.
> 
> But I do wonder with the continually shrinking unions and the decline of trades training in public schools if we really don't have a much smaller labor pool of skilled workers than several decades ago?
> 
> It'd be interesting to look at the number of people being licensed and being accepted into trade organizations, and see how that has declined.


As Obama announced yesterday he wants to put more money into helping more students attend college.

There are all ready enough unemployed idiots with college degrees.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> ...There are all ready enough unemployed idiots with college degrees.


 There are already enough idiots with college degrees, period. 

I can't say for certainty, but I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of folks who got a university education in the '50's would laugh at the acuity necessary to obtain a bachelors today.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

I believe within another 10-20 years when the last of the older crowd that has been in the trades retires there is going to be no shortage of skilled jobs open. Within my generation people with the skill and drive to actually handle a position that requires more than the basic basics are far and few between, 75% or more at least (just a guess) of the kids nowdays cant do the simplest thing like changing a tire.. Theres no smartphone app for the kinds of hands on problem solving we do, never will be, and if you have those skills once the old folks that have been carrying the slack for the past 20 years or so are out you will be worth $$$.

When i first started in the trade old guys used to tell me i was making a mistake, go to college, you dont want to pull 500s in the cold all day when youre 40, all that... Well Im making more now than many people i know with degrees, (the ones that actually have jobs) Im staying busy and am in demand, and furthermore i love what i do and wouldnt trade it for the world, certainly not a miserable college degree daily grind.

I have a tangible skill that i can sell myself, and if that fails I can sell myself to an employer, unlike some random degree that may or may not meet the requirements for the posiion blah blah blah.

If you have what it takes this day in age then there couldnt be a better time to learn something real.:thumbup:

Also it goes without saying that it took many years of dedication, hard work and humility to get here but the end reward is well worth it


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Yeah, I'll be lucky to make it to have a orange haired, nose peirced, google eyed, beauty watching me in a retirement bed...

Be a Free Agent get a Trade!


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

CADPoint said:


> Yeah, I'll be lucky to make it to have a orange haired, nose peirced, google eyed, beauty watching me in a retirement bed...
> 
> Be a Free Agent get a Trade!


Ehh, when I was an apprentice I had dreads, a bunch of metal in my face, etc and I was still a good worker and knew what I was doing. I don't care how clean cut you are, if you've spent your formative years carressing game controllers and keyboards and learning about dumb sh*t you're not going to make it far in real life


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Here's part of the problem.

*Here*

"_Of the 18,000 public high schools in the U.S., about 900 are vocational (or about 5%) according to the U.S. Department of Education statistics. Why the disdain? Why are we so reluctant to encourage teens to pursue careers as welders, electricians, computer technicians, or health care workers? These are good jobs and for many students, learning something useful would be better than marking time in a "comprehensive" high school completing low level academic courses.

The Economist article raises a good point.
America has a unique disdain for vocational education. . . . . However, many Americans hate the idea of schoolchildren setting out on career paths—such predetermination, they think, threatens the ethos of opportunity_."

Your right, I'd be wondering why the colored hair, why the jewelery, and what is she watching on Google glass...

There are requirements for working in such places, that would be my least concern.


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

Hippie said:


> I believe within another 10-20 years when the last of the older crowd that has been in the trades retires there is going to be no shortage of skilled jobs open. Within my generation people with the skill and drive to actually handle a position that requires more than the basic basics are far and few between, 75% or more at least


I just have to really disagree here. we will lose some great wealth of knowledge from these retiring men. but they have passed on their tricks and experiences to the next. and any time there is openings the next in line moves up and so forth. most every jatc in the nation turns away a high majority of applicants every semester start because there is only so many spots open. where are all these so called shortages of skilled workers going to be at? because its not going to happen anywhere there is a jatc program available...


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Taking the labels out of it for a minute - the lack of skilled labor has already begun. Cheap wages have driven out a lot of tradesmen - the 'must go to college' mentality has removed many potential tradesmen and made them office help - the bad economy has weakened labor and contractors alike and allowed the bottom feeders to flourish.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

chadw said:


> I just have to really disagree here. we will lose some great wealth of knowledge from these retiring men. but they have passed on their tricks and experiences to the next. and any time there is openings the next in line moves up and so forth. most every jatc in the nation turns away a high majority of applicants every semester start because there is only so many spots open. where are all these so called shortages of skilled workers going to be at? because its not going to happen anywhere there is a jatc program available...


I went through the jatc apprenticeship and out of my original 39 classmates more than half didn't make it to 3rd year. Then of the remaining a lot are sitting the bench or working crappy nonunion jobs.. less than 10 of us actually ended up with good electrical jobs. I attribute that to general generation suckage, there was no shortage of knowledge being passed down, the problem was most people weren't picking it up


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> Taking the labels out of it for a minute - the lack of skilled labor has already begun. Cheap wages have driven out a lot of tradesmen - the 'must go to college' mentality has removed many potential tradesmen and made them office help - the bad economy has weakened labor and contractors alike and allowed the bottom feeders to flourish.


And as this post points out along with others this is a multi-faceted problem.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

There is not shortage and never will be. They've been talking about a skilled trade shortage for the past 20 years i've been paying attention to the news. A shortage is a fallacy anyways. Name any profession with a shortage. There aren't any. If your a company and you need an employee, all you have to do is offer an employee from another company a %10 raise, and they will work for you. Additionally, employers can just give their current employes more hours. Let me know when this shortage comes to I can tell you I was wrong.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> There is not shortage and never will be. They've been talking about a skilled trade shortage for the past 20 years i've been paying attention to the news. A shortage is a fallacy anyways. Name any profession with a shortage. There aren't any. If your a company and you need an employee, all you have to do is offer an employee from another company a %10 raise, and they will work for you. Additionally, employers can just give their current employes more hours. Let me know when this shortage comes to I can tell you I was wrong.


I agree, they have been talking about this shortage of skilled labor since I got in the trade.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

brian john said:


> In case you missed the press notice The Dems are pressing for cheap labor, legalize the illegals and open the flood gates for more.
> 
> The Reps dislike unions because the unions use all their political cash for the Dems. If they spread it around there would be Reps pulling for unions.


 If repubs were more friendly towards unions, most guys i know would be republican.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> If repubs were more friendly towards unions, most guys i know would be republican.


Or if unions spread some of that cash in Republican hands, IN POLITICS CASH IS KING, the old tit for tat and neither side gives.


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

Loose Neutral said:


> If repubs were more friendly towards unions, most guys i know would be republican.


most guys I know would be republican if they werent hell bent on stripping workers rights to a pulp and enabling big business to do anything to snare big profits at the expense of paying their workers little to nothing.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

chadw said:


> most guys I know would be republican if they werent hell bent on stripping workers rights to a pulp and enabling big business to do anything to snare big profits at the expense of paying their workers little to nothing.


Hence being more labor friendly.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

1 doesn't want you to have it and the other wants you to make it, only to take it and give it to someone else. Can't win.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

brian john said:


> Or if unions spread some of that cash in Republican hands, IN POLITICS CASH IS KING, the old tit for tat and neither side gives.


Unions cannot outspend business, so they cannot buy the republican votes. Simple economics.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> Unions cannot outspend business, so they cannot buy the republican votes. Simple economics.


Support republicans and they will support you.:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> I agree, they have been talking about this shortage of skilled labor since I got in the trade.


I started in 1974 and they we're talking about it back then too.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

Hippie said:


> Ehh, when I was an apprentice I had dreads, a bunch of metal in my face, etc and I was still a good worker and knew what I was doing. I don't care how clean cut you are, if you've spent your formative years carressing game controllers and keyboards and learning about dumb sh*t you're not going to make it far in real life


Thats what I did and I know my ****. I still have a lot to learn but don't rag on people that play games. It teachs a lot more real world skills than you would every realize. What did you do? Kill your brain cells with booze?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Troyboy said:


> Thats what I did and I know my ****. I still have a lot to learn but don't rag on people that play games. It teachs a lot more real world skills than you would every realize. What did you do? Kill your brain cells with booze?


Sorry,booze does not kill brain cells,but will mess up your liver.

Smoking angel dust will kill brain cells..


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

HARRY304E said:


> Sorry,booze does not kill brain cells,but will mess up your liver.
> 
> Smoking angel dust will kill brain cells..


You obviously have no idea what alcohol does to the nervous system.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Support republicans and they will support you.:thumbsup:


Sure, by removing worker rights, killing research, defunding social programs and cutting taxes so severely so as to put us deeper in debt.

:thumbsup:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Troyboy said:


> You obviously have no idea what alcohol does to the nervous system.


I can state for a fact that Tequila removes my fear of the police.:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Troyboy said:


> You obviously have no idea what alcohol does to the nervous system.


You're right..:whistling2::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> I can state for a fact that Tequila removes my fear of the police.:laughing:


:lol::lol::lol:

That's why I woke up in jail that day.:blink:...:laughing:


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

HARRY304E said:


> You're right..:whistling2::laughing:


Pretty arrogant for being super uneducated in anything to do with the brain. Yours must be filled with your ego. And let me guess the apprentices are the only ones that work with you that make mistakes.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Got a live one here


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> Sure, by removing worker rights, killing research, defunding social programs and cutting taxes so severely so as to put us deeper in debt.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Our debt is caused by our out of control spending in other country's world wide.

Our debt is caused by our out of control spending supporting failing company's such as the Canadian corporation that created the obamacare website,we paid $700,000,000 to a Canadian corporation when we could have built a website that works flawlessly by a USA corporation for less than $10,000,000.

The fact that they(THE DEMOCRATS) excluded USA corporations , when 37% of the able bodied people are unemployed because we have a democrat president and senate should blow your top!BUT, It does not,why is that?:blink:

Oh! 37% really ?:blink:



Wall Street adviser: Actual unemployment is 37.2%, 'misery index' worst in 40 years




Anyhow,I've got no problem with private sector unions,and neither do Republicans.

Public sector unions is the problem.

If you recall history,president Kennedy made it so that public employees could unionize,back them,,,union membership was high and it was all private sector.

Once the unions got the public sector,the downfall of the unions began.

Again,the democrats are great at screwing up everything they touch,and it is intentional,and they have no problem blaming republicans for their screw ups.

The obamacare website should have woke you guys up to the fact that they could care less about American workers,Union or not.

But hell,,,,,the republicans did it.



.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Support republicans and they will support you.:thumbsup:


Seriously Harry, stop with this "Support Republicans" garbage. All they have given us is socialism and the new world order.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MTW said:


> Seriously Harry, stop with this "Support Republicans" garbage. All they have given us is socialism and the new world order.


:laughing:

Indeed...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Troyboy said:


> Pretty arrogant for being super uneducated in anything to do with the brain. Yours must be filled with your ego. And let me guess the apprentices are the only ones that work with you that make mistakes.


Ah,no,I make mistakes too.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Dont feed the troy-troll pleasssseeeee


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> There is not shortage and never will be. They've been talking about a skilled trade shortage for the past 20 years i've been paying attention to the news. A shortage is a fallacy anyways. Name any profession with a shortage. There aren't any. If your a company and you need an employee, all you have to do is offer an employee from another company a %10 raise, and they will work for you. Additionally, employers can just give their current employes more hours. Let me know when this shortage comes to I can tell you I was wrong.


You are misinformed. 

While I cannot speak for Electricians or Plumbers, I can certainly speak for other skilled trades like moldmakers, toolmakers, CNC operators, maintenance technicians, etc. There definitely IS a shortage of these folks in CT and in the Northeast. Wages for these skill sets are already higher than they would be normally. However, despite a recent resurgence of attention to the trade schools by local, State, and Federal government programs, there are low enrollments - go figure. The main reason is that the parents of talented (i.e. mechanically inclined) students do not believe there are any opportunities in these trades. They are flat wrong. From the many trade, manufacturing, and educational symposiums and seminars I have been involved with in the last 5 years, it is apparent that there is a major skills gap in the works.

We are working directly with our State and Local goverments as well as our local trade schools, to help train the future skilled workforce we need to sustain our manufacturing operations right here in CT. I can tell you, it is a UPHILL battle..:blink:


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

LJSMITH1 said:


> You are misinformed.
> 
> While I cannot speak for Electricians or Plumbers, I can certainly speak for other skilled trades like moldmakers, toolmakers, CNC operators, maintenance technicians, etc. There definitely IS a shortage of these folks in CT and in the Northeast. Wages for these skill sets are already higher than they would be normally. However, despite a recent resurgence of attention to the trade schools by local, State, and Federal government programs, there are low enrollments - go figure. The main reason is that the parents of talented (i.e. mechanically inclined) students do not believe there are any opportunities in these trades. They are flat wrong. From the many trade, manufacturing, and educational symposiums and seminars I have been involved with in the last 5 years, it is apparent that there is a major skills gap in the works.
> 
> We are working directly with our State and Local goverments as well as our local trade schools, to help train the future skilled workforce we need to sustain our manufacturing operations right here in CT. I can tell you, it is a UPHILL battle..:blink:


all solved by paying proper wages. if they were high enough there would be no shortage. it really is that simple. and the goverment and big business want to do everything but work around it. there isnt a shortage of ceo's, bank managers etc...because they get paid.


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

chadw said:


> all solved by paying proper wages. if they were high enough there would be no shortage. it really is that simple. and the goverment and big business want to do everything but work around it. there isnt a shortage of ceo's, bank managers etc...because they get paid.


I disagree. The wages for these skilled trades are well, well above the minimum wage ($20/hr. to start and higher), plus there are also full benefits. Will they be paid like a CEO, a VP? No. Will they be able to 'make a living wage'? Hell yes...as verified by our long-term existing staff. As I said before, the issue is not how much $$ can be made, its more of the perception of parents when they think of the trade (i.e. dirty, dingy, low IQ people, etc.). Every parent believes that their kid should 'go to college', when in fact many studies have shown that college is not the 'end-all' for getting a good paying job.

Don't get me wrong, I also have a problem with the Financial Industry and how they can make money despite mishandling other peoples money. There are insane salaries being paid to people for various jobs, which none of us can make sense of (i.e. CEO's of Charitable Foundations, Pro Athletes, NFL Commissioner, CEO's of failing companies, Executives of Hedge Funds, etc., Etc...). However, you cannot compare any of these jobs (and pay scale) to those of a rank-and-file type job. They are Apples and Potatoes. Who are you (or me) to say how much a particular CEO or Executive makes? It is the decision of the Stockholders or management. Not mine. 

Pay is determined by market forces and demand. I know it stinks, and I wish I was paid a lot more just like you. However, just like products, everyone is always looking for the best 'deal' for labor, in order to be price competitive with competition. The only way to get wages up regardless of skill differences, is to pay more for every product or service you consume. Also, pay is determined by what 'marketable skill' you offer and how in-demand it is. 

I play ice hockey fairly well. Why haven't I been given a pro or minor league contract? I want the big $$ too, but apparently I am not 'skilled enough' to be at the pro level. So, should I be bitching to the NHL demanding they sign me because I think I am worth it? Haha. No.:no: I get to sit with the thousands of other Beer Leaguer's who reminisce about their 'missed opportunity' to play in the big leagues....

My point is if you want to make more $$, get the credentials you need to become one of those CEO's or Bank Executives...or learn to play ice hockey like a boss...:thumbup:


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

eejack said:


> Cheap wages have driven out a lot of tradesmen


Are you referring to landscapers and sheet rockers? You know, lower middle class white guys used to do that work. Wait, they still do in the smaller and whiter cities. The problem is the availability of migrant labor who works as if minimum wage is worth 60 bucks an hour, because to them, it is.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Hippie said:


> general generation suckage, there was no shortage of knowledge being passed down, the problem was most people weren't picking it up


Apprentices need to put in their own home work. If they get 15 minutes of special attention a week, then they are lucky.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

mr hands said:


> Apprentices need to put in their own home work. If they get 15 minutes of special attention a week, then they are lucky.


A lot of apprentices do know alot. Getting yelled and screamed at bcuz a jman can't figure out his circuitry is a brutal excuse. When it's clearly the jman. My marks in school are amazing. Don't get scholarships for doing things wrong. And let the jman troll begin.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

The main problem with the trade Troy in my expierence is there's too many a holes. Foreman at my last company build a rack in the crawl space of the school with everything from 3/4 to 4" and it fell all with energized runs. Dude keeps his job cause his brother....who doesn't do a damn thing either....and at the other school where he was their rack FELL TOO! Who friggin builds a rack rthat falls and then talks sh how great they are????


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

LJSMITH1 said:


> I disagree. The wages for these skilled trades are well, well above the minimum wage ($20/hr. to start and higher), p there are also full benefits. Will they be paid like a CEO, a VP? No. Will they be able to 'make a living wage'? Hell yes...as verified by our long-term existing staff. As I said before, the issue is not how much $$ can be made,


disagree. $20 hr is not making enough for a skilled tradesmen. as a third year apprentice I make 18.20 hr. you have got to be kidding me in tryinging to get experienced guys to start for $20. no way and that is exactly the problem. there is a shortage only of people willing to work for less. end of story. u want skill, you pay for it.


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

chadw said:


> disagree. $20 hr is not making enough for a skilled tradesmen. as a third year apprentice I make 18.20 hr. you have got to be kidding me in tryinging to get experienced guys to start for $20. no way and that is exactly the problem. there is a shortage only of people willing to work for less. end of story. u want skill, you pay for it.


You didn't read my post close enough...

For someone just out of a _TOOLMAKING_ _TRADE SCHOOL_ (i.e. "to start")..$20/hr Plus benefits is absolutely fair compensation. However, if you are experienced (i.e. 5-10+ years in the trade), the pay is more like $25-$35/Hr and up. We have skill, and we pay fairly for it. And...no, they are not 'immigrants' either...

BTW...when you are doing your wage comparisons, don't forget to look at what the TOTAL compensation is. There are many companies (like ours) who also offer subsidized healthcare (incl. Vision & Dental), plus a generous 401K plan as part of the skilled trade level compensation.

What you think you are 'worth' is only as good as the person/company who is willing to pay it. We all think we are 'worth more' than we really are...:thumbup: Join the club.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

cultch said:


> The main problem with the trade Troy in my expierence is there's too many a holes. Foreman at my last company build a rack in the crawl space of the school with everything from 3/4 to 4" and it fell all with energized runs. Dude keeps his job cause his brother....who doesn't do a damn thing either....and at the other school where he was their rack FELL TOO! Who friggin builds a rack rthat falls and then talks sh how great they are????


A ****ing idiot that's who. I know exactly where you are coming from. The pathetic work I see. When Jmans are running pipe on drywall not hitting studs or using anchors and their pipe falls off and they blame the apprentice, gtfo


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

LJSMITH1 said:


> You didn't read my post close enough...
> 
> For someone just out of a TOOLMAKING TRADE SCHOOL (i.e. "to start")..$20/hr Plus benefits is absolutely fair compensation. However, if you are experienced (i.e. 5-10+ years in the trade), the pay is more like $25-$35/Hr and up. We have skill, and we pay fairly for it. And...no, they are not 'immigrants' either...
> 
> ...


I agree a lot of people don't look at vacation time, overtime, if benefits are paid for or you pay. I have a friend whose company pays her ei, cpp, and wcb premiums so she doesn't get it deducted from her wage, like almost all do. There are a lot of things to look at.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Let me lay it out for you two noobs.

Relatives and **** holsters who don't do sh1t for the company are protected by someone close to the top who is very valuable to the company's business. This single person umbrella also has relatives and butt buddies slaving away at the company who are entirely worth their dollar. At the end of the day, the big man at the top knows who is loyal to him through thick and thin. His butt buddy spies know who is loyal to the boss as well, through their feelers. 

Don't get married into the machine, but use it to your advantage. Move up, and protect your worthless relatives too. Who do you think drives the truck between the warehouse and the job? It should be YOUR nephew. That's who, if he's a go getter, he will be a success, if he's a zero, then you have done your job as a hero for your family.

Quit judging, the world isn't eff'ed up, it works just fine. Get in line with it.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

mr hands said:


> Let me lay it out for you two noobs.
> 
> Relatives and **** holsters who don't do sh1t for the company are protected by someone close to the top who is very valuable to the company's business. This single person umbrella also has relatives and butt buddies slaving away at the company who are entirely worth their dollar. At the end of the day, the big man at the top knows who is loyal to him through thick and thin. His butt buddy spies know who is loyal to the boss as well, through their feelers.
> 
> ...


Ok, you told me what I already knew. If ya feel like taking the free ride with some relative and think that's fine, go ahead. Be happy that you are useless.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

mr hands said:


> Let me lay it out for you two noobs.
> 
> Relatives and **** holsters who don't do sh1t for the company are protected by someone close to the top who is very valuable to the company's business. This single person umbrella also has relatives and butt buddies slaving away at the company who are entirely worth their dollar. At the end of the day, the big man at the top knows who is loyal to him through thick and thin. His butt buddy spies know who is loyal to the boss as well, through their feelers.
> 
> ...


Not a noob. I was lighting foreman there 13 yrs expierence. Your right tho. I had enough. Gettin out of the trade. The brother was like the 1st employee of that company. Your right about taking care of family too. I agree but my fam moved all across the eastern seaboard. Too many idiots. Material laying all over the place and they got these expensive clam shells right there...**** just everywhere but I'm a dumbass for straighting it all out so folks can actually get some work done.

Had 1 of the other foreman never said a word to me for like a year. I get promoted to foreman then he wants to strike up an hour long conversation. I just can't get over it.....DONE!


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

LJSMITH1 said:


> I disagree. The wages for these skilled trades are well, well above the minimum wage ($20/hr. to start and higher), plus there are also full benefits.


$20 is barely above my unemployment benefits, forget about paying a skilled tradesman. My apprentices start around that rate. $800 a week gross? To raise a family? And tools gas lunch etc is gonna eat up how much of that?

$20 is helper wages....not actual skilled tradesman wages.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

cultch said:


> Not a noob. I was lighting foreman there 13 yrs expierence. Your right tho. I had enough. Gettin out of the trade. The brother was like the 1st employee of that company. Your right about taking care of family too. I agree but my fam moved all across the eastern seaboard. Too many idiots. Material laying all over the place and they got these expensive clam shells right there...**** just everywhere but I'm a dumbass for straighting it all out so folks can actually get some work done.
> 
> Had 1 of the other foreman never said a word to me for like a year. I get promoted to foreman then he wants to strike up an hour long conversation. I just can't get over it.....DONE!


That sums up the egos in the trades. Hate to break it to ya, money don't earn ya respect from me and never will. People think you only deserve respect based on position title.....no matter if you deserved that spot or not.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

I got em all day. They say 'Oh Rob C is coming out to run this job. Be careful he's a hard ass. 1 minute late and he docks ya an hour'. So what happens Rob C is late everyday so nobody can get any work even started till 7 when we're supposed to start at 6. Of course every task has been calculated how long it should take so I'm getting screwed. I got 100 more....


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

cultch said:


> I got em all day. They say 'Oh Rob C is coming out to run this job. Be careful he's a hard ass. 1 minute late and he docks ya an hour'. So what happens Rob C is late everyday so nobody can get any work even started till 7 when we're supposed to start at 6. Of course every task has been calculated how long it should take so I'm getting screwed. I got 100 more....


Haha wow. It seems like there are so many egos in the trade, compared to other fields I've worked in. Never knew people could be so confident being absolutely wrong.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

eejack said:


> $20 is barely above my unemployment benefits, forget about paying a skilled tradesman. My apprentices start around that rate. $800 a week gross? To raise a family? And tools gas lunch etc is gonna eat up how much of that?
> 
> $20 is helper wages....not actual skilled tradesman wages.


Obviously they don't teach reading comprehension in the IBEW apprentice program. 


LJSMITH1 said:


> The wages for these skilled trades are well, well above the minimum wage ($20/hr. to start and higher), plus there are also full benefits.





LJSMITH1 said:


> For someone just out of a TOOLMAKING TRADE SCHOOL (i.e. "to start")..$20/hr Plus benefits is absolutely fair compensation. However, if you are experienced (i.e. 5-10+ years in the trade), the pay is more like $25-$35/Hr and up. We have skill, and we pay fairly for it.


Twice he said $20 to start. 

To start. 

To start. 

Understand? It's $20 to start. As in a green apprentice starting out. Obviously skilled tradesmen with experience make more. IMO $20 for someone with no experience, just starting out, is too much money. A green apprentice is not worth $20/hr.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

HAHA. Thx for the vent....How bout this one. Boss man stops down to the job and wants to talk about why the hours went over. He says their done with their lighting at the other school. Well hello that's an elementry school where all ya need is a 6' ladder. This is a high school. We got lights 30' in the air ect ect ect right. What happens 2 weeks later. I'm working overtime down at that other school...doing what??? Lights of course cause they weren't done.

1 section had 300 hrs bid for the lights. Before I even started 80 hrs were gone. I say 'Hey why are 80 hrs gone already I haven't even started yet. They say oh don't worry about it we'll look into it. What happens 2 months later..."Hey you went over on these lights. I say don't you remember me asking why 80 hrs were missing from this code? No they don't remember. Well we can look it up....Look it up then I want to see it...never did see it.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

cultch said:


> HAHA. Thx for the vent....How bout this one. Boss man stops down to the job and wants to talk about why the hours went over. He says their done with their lighting at the other school. Well hello that's an elementry school where all ya need is a 6' ladder. This is a high school. We got lights 30' in the air ect ect ect right. What happens 2 weeks later. I'm working overtime down at that other school...doing what??? Lights of course cause they weren't done.
> 
> 1 section had 300 hrs bid for the lights. Before I even started 80 hrs were gone. I say 'Hey why are 80 hrs gone already I haven't even started yet. They say oh don't worry about it we'll look into it. What happens 2 months later..."Hey you went over on these lights. I say don't you remember me asking why 80 hrs were missing from this code? No they don't remember. Well we can look it up....Look it up then I want to see it...never did see it.


I worked a manufacturing job that sounds very close to the same. There was two groups of three. One did packaging the other sorting. I ran the packaging side we worked 8 hrs a day solid, other guys did about 5 hrs work and 3 hrs of talking. Then i got harassed to work overtime and said no. I worked hard and am not doing it because they wasted 3 hrs talking and expected people to come and help them after they dog ****ed.


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## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

cultch said:


> HAHA. Thx for the vent....How bout this one. Boss man stops down to the job and wants to talk about why the hours went over. He says their done with their lighting at the other school. Well hello that's an elementry school where all ya need is a 6' ladder. This is a high school. We got lights 30' in the air ect ect ect right. What happens 2 weeks later. I'm working overtime down at that other school...doing what??? Lights of course cause they weren't done.
> 
> 1 section had 300 hrs bid for the lights. Before I even started 80 hrs were gone. I say 'Hey why are 80 hrs gone already I haven't even started yet. They say oh don't worry about it we'll look into it. What happens 2 months later..."Hey you went over on these lights. I say don't you remember me asking why 80 hrs were missing from this code? No they don't remember. Well we can look it up....Look it up then I want to see it...never did see it.


 
Who was the contractor?
In a previous post you stated you could not work until someone showed up and he was always late. You guys cant start without him? Just wondering.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Charlie K said:


> Who was the contractor?
> In a previous post you stated you could not work until someone showed up and he was always late. You guys cant start without him? Just wondering.


Right Charlie. They had to unlock the sea container where the sign in sheet was before we could start. Total bs. A few days I said screw this lets get to work. I'll pm you the contractor, Even tho they deserve to get their name smashed to bits it's just not in me to do it. I will say that the owner was a union guy and went non union to start this company and the union hates him cause he took some of their work. The pic of the fallen rack system ended up down at the union hall. lol

I actually live near by and asked if I could work on my own time for a few hours on the weekend and they wouldn't let me. I figured I could get some paperwork done. Sort the clamshell ect but nooooooo....


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

LJSMITH1 said:


> You didn't read my post close enough...
> 
> For someone just out of a TOOLMAKING TRADE SCHOOL (i.e. "to start")..$20/hr Plus benefits is absolutely fair compensation. However, if you are experienced (i.e. 5-10+ years in the trade), the pay is more like $25-$35/Hr and up. We have skill, and we pay fairly for it. And...no, they are not 'immigrants' either...
> 
> ...


so are you saying there is a shortage at your company right now for the $25 to 35 range?? I have a hard time believing that.


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> Obviously they don't teach reading comprehension in the IBEW apprentice program.
> 
> Twice he said $20 to start.
> 
> ...


the first time he mentioned $20 hr all he said was to start. that usually means maybe a couple bucks more down the road with most companies.


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## Nuzzie (Jan 11, 2012)

cultch said:


> *The main problem with the trade Troy in my expierence is there's too many a holes*. Foreman at my last company build a rack in the crawl space of the school with everything from 3/4 to 4" and it fell all with energized runs. Dude keeps his job cause his brother....who doesn't do a damn thing either....and at the other school where he was their rack FELL TOO! Who friggin builds a rack rthat falls and then talks sh how great they are????


In the places i've worked in, the mechanical fitters have mostly been 100x cooler than the sparkies. I have worked with some really awesome old school sparkies but most of them are either weirdos or egotistical asshats.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

I noticed that too Nuz. The mechanical guys were cool. Of course they ran their pipes in the way of the lights all over the job and they keep their jobs as well. HA which rerminds me of yet another one. The super starts walking the job and wants to know why some of the lights are not up. I explain to him that the plumbers got their pipes in the way right. Well he says I need to walk the job and figure out all those spots ahead of time. WHA???

What if I walk the job for hours and don't find any problem areas....I just wasted hours. It's not my job to check that stuff. This wasn't the 1st school I'd been on. This happens at every school.

I still got about 150 more...


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Some people just shouldn't run work. This is all pretty common stuff


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Some people just shouldn't run work. This is all pretty common stuff


It's common to build racks that fall on the ground? The thread is about the skilled trade dilemma. You aren't gonna have too many inteligant people that are gonna work w/ a bunch of morans. Not morans that can't do the work (even tho their **** falls out of the ceiling) Morans in that they can't see you gotta have your material set up for the men ect ect. Or folks that don't understand math.

The hours bid for these lights came out to be about 20 min per light. Sounds reasonable enough until you realize they are counting the hours that it takes to move 1000's of light from 3 counties over 72 AT A TIME! Unloading them to a staging area and they still aren't even in the room where they go.

Not to mention asking us to build a scaffold break it down rebuild 3 ft over just to put up 9 lights which ended up taking 3 guys a few days equaling like 50 hrs for the 9 lights. I know how #'s work.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Goto a new contractor. You're allowed to find you're own home.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Again Mr Hands...sound advice and we're not miles apart on this but I was at this co. for 2 years and all the stories I've told are about this co. I got just as many stories about previous comapny.

Just a quick one on the previous co. They had a 1st yr try to pull 32 yes 32 #12's thru a 1 1/4 I think it was (coulda been 1 1/2 can't remember right now). Way over 360 degrees . 32 wires didn't show up on the other end. **** backfeeding a complete mess. Guys working in the dark all over the place.

This was a different lighting system than what we had at my last co but one I was very famliar with. Basically everything went thru a contactor and each emg light ended up with 3 whips in it. You needed a reg constant, a reg sl and an emg whip at the emg fixtures. Well I had just done 2 schools over the previous 4 years same exact thing.

So when I 1st started I inquired about the lighting system and the foreman says 'Don't worry about that'. Of course in commercial you have 'A' fixtures, 'B' fixtures ect and they just can't go anyplace. They gotta match the prints. This foreman had all the lights up all in the wrong place. He just couldn't bring himself to ask me for help since I had a lot of expierence with that system and he didn't. I wasn't trying to say he was a dumbass and I was smarter. He knew a lot I didn't but this I knew.

Believe me I could go on and on and on. I'm heading out the door right now about this job outside electric. Basically inteligant people you would think would put their heads together before preceeding w/ work but in this trade that is looked upon as a weakness. 

thx again for the vent.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted by cultch View Post
> The main problem with the trade Troy in my expierence is there's too many a holes. Foreman at my last company build a rack in the crawl space of the school with everything from 3/4 to 4" and it fell all with energized runs. Dude keeps his job cause his brother....who doesn't do a damn thing either....and at the other school where he was their rack FELL TOO! Who friggin builds a rack rthat falls and then talks sh how great they are????


I have been in the trade 43 years and I have run into a few A-holes but most of the men I have worked with are just guys wanting a 40 hours (or more) week, go to work to a good job go home.

Maybe if everyone you work with or for is an A-hole it might be the product they are having to deal with, ever look in the mirror.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

cultch said:


> Again Mr Hands...sound advice and we're not miles apart on this but I was at this co. for 2 years and all the stories I've told are about this co. I got just as many stories about previous comapny.
> 
> Just a quick one on the previous co. They had a 1st yr try to pull 32 yes 32 #12's thru a 1 1/4 I think it was (coulda been 1 1/2 can't remember right now). Way over 360 degrees . 32 wires didn't show up on the other end. **** backfeeding a complete mess. Guys working in the dark all over the place.
> 
> ...


****ty electricians dont plan stuff. Whats point of rushing to do it wrong ? Put the light up take it down and yell. Sure accomplished a lot. Or not marking wires properly, so now you must meter them all out. Once again so dumb. Take the extra 5 mins to read the print and do it right. Too many Jmans just blame the apprentice for their poor managing skills.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Troyboy said:


> ****ty electricians dont plan stuff. Whats point of rushing to do it wrong ? Put the light up take it down and yell. Sure accomplished a lot. Or not marking wires properly, so now you must meter them all out. Once again so dumb. Take the extra 5 mins to read the print and do it right. Too many Jmans just blame the apprentice for their poor managing skills.


Companies that allow this do not last long, believe me it won't work in a competitive market.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Never said they were all a holes. I said too many a holes Brian. I've worked with some great guys too. I've read your posts. You take care of your guys. You think being a foreman on a 10 mil dollar job is woth 18...forget about it.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

brian john said:


> Companies that allow this do not last long, believe me it won't work in a competitive market.


A lot of generals here are dumb. They look at the price and that's it. They seem to forget after about 6 months. It isn't the way I would operate.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

cultch said:


> Never said they were all a holes. I said too many a holes Brian. I've worked with some great guys too. I've read your posts. You take care of your guys. You think being a foreman on a 10 mil dollar job is woth 18...forget about it.


Lmao I know foreman making 44 ish and paid benefits on 600 k jobs here.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

What exactly do you call someone that docks guys an hour for being 1 minute late that shows up late and makes 20 guys run late.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

cultch said:


> What exactly do you call someone that docks guys an hour for being 1 minute late that shows up late and makes 20 guys run late.


A ****ing idiot.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Troyboy said:


> A lot of generals here are dumb. They look at the price and that's it. They seem to forget after about 6 months. It isn't the way I would operate.


EC's can't and won't stay in business doing crappy work that requires redoing on a regular basis.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Find a new contractor. Somebody is going to die where you're working. There are good people out there to work for. They are companies formed up by people like yourself who left to do things the right way.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

cultch said:


> It's common to build racks that fall on the ground? The thread is about the skilled trade dilemma. You aren't gonna have too many inteligant people that are gonna work w/ a bunch of morans. Not morans that can't do the work (even tho their **** falls out of the ceiling) Morans in that they can't see you gotta have your material set up for the men ect ect. Or folks that don't understand math. The hours bid for these lights came out to be about 20 min per light. Sounds reasonable enough until you realize they are counting the hours that it takes to move 1000's of light from 3 counties over 72 AT A TIME! Unloading them to a staging area and they still aren't even in the room where they go. Not to mention asking us to build a scaffold break it down rebuild 3 ft over just to put up 9 lights which ended up taking 3 guys a few days equaling like 50 hrs for the 9 lights. I know how #'s work.


No. You are what's common. I've worked with a lot of guys like you


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

I don't think you really know me pony. I've been on this site for about 1000 days and I've bitched about this stuff for about 2 of them. I'm not crying. I'm movin on.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

cultch said:


> I don't think you really know me pony. I've been on this site for about 1000 days and I've bitched about this stuff for about 2 of them. I'm not crying. I'm movin on.


I never said it was in a bad way. I just recognize the verbiage.


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

cultch said:


> I don't think you really know me pony. I've been on this site for about 1000 days and I've bitched about this stuff for about 2 of them. I'm not crying. I'm movin on.


 smile man!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> I never said it was in a bad way. I just recognize the verbiage.


It seemed possible to take it as positive and negative at the same time


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

brian john said:


> It seemed possible to take it as positive and negative at the same time


That's how I roll Brian. Never wanna show your hand


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

It's all good fellas. I've read a lot of pony's post as well and know he's a good guy.

There is some truth to what I say tho. It's real it happens. Sparkies have a rep and a lot of it's true. I always got as long real well with the older guys.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

cultch said:


> It's all good fellas. I've read a lot of pony's post as well and know he's a good guy. There is some truth to what I say tho. It's real it happens. Sparkies have a rep and a lot of it's true. I always got as long real well with the older guys.


Honestly man I relate to what you're saying a lot. The place I work is famous for changing everything except for deadlines. It's commonplace to wire up the same machine 3 different times in 3 different locations and then they'll move it again and wonder why it's not running. Then some guy in a suits telling you how much money that machines costs per hour to be down and then four more guys that look exactly like him tell you the exact same thing. Sometimes it feels like its just a big f*cked up revolving door. But hey that's life!


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> Honestly man I relate to what you're saying a lot. The place I work is famous for changing everything except for deadlines. It's commonplace to wire up the same machine 3 different times in 3 different locations and then they'll move it again and wonder why it's not running. Then some guy in a suits telling you how much money that machines costs per hour to be down and then four more guys that look exactly like him tell you the exact same thing. Sometimes it feels like its just a big f*cked up revolving door. But hey that's life!


Where there is confusion. There is $$$$$$$ in my pocket.


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## QualityElectric (Jan 26, 2014)

cthermond said:


> Is there really a looming skilled trades delimma? I keep hearing, and have read about a significant skilled trades shortage including electricians worldwide and inthe U.S. It seems to me to be the opposite, a shortage of work, What do you think?


There is definitely a shortage of some jobs. Seems like employers are looking for the perfect candidate, which doesn't exist.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...-job-openings-why-are-the-positions-unfilled/


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Full disclosure I never finished school which totally kills me. The only time I can get hired is when they have a mass hire cause their behind which is how I got my last 3 jobs over the last 8 years. Then I show up and knock work out left and right and always get promoted but nobody respects someone that doesn't have that paper. 

You would think 2 years of school and 13 years in the trade would count for something tho.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

cultch said:


> Full disclosure I never finished school which totally kills me. The only time I can get hired is when they have a mass hire cause their behind which is how I got my last 3 jobs over the last 8 years. Then I show up and knock work out left and right and always get promoted but nobody respects someone that doesn't have that paper.
> 
> You would think 2 years of school and 13 years in the trade would count for something tho.


that paper is what seperates the real from the phony. u might be an exception, but it isnt going to happen until you get it. so just suck it up and do what you got to do. or forever be stuck in that position. must be a stubborn ass dude to go on like that for 13 years??


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Well I ended up being a single dad and my family moved away from here when my boy was about 4 years old so I really had no choice. Of course I had the 2nd highest grade in class when I went. Can't argue with you tho. I've heard some very well respected guys right on this forum say that those papers aren't worth the paper their printed on like MDShunk said that.


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Watch out for the pipe and wire types!


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

cultch said:


> Well I ended up being a single dad and my family moved away from here when my boy was about 4 years old so I really had no choice. Of course I had the 2nd highest grade in class when I went. Can't argue with you tho. I've heard some very well respected guys right on this forum say that those papers aren't worth the paper their printed on like MDShunk said that.


I hear you there. it sucks man, there is a lot of crap out there. find a good maintenance job, idk what else you can do without that paper.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

He's gettin older now so I could go back. I wanna try this other thing I'm going after water restoration. Mold clean up ect. I got a good friend in the biz and he's trying to get me on. All these pipes bursting everywhere has them very busy right now. On the sales side you can make pretty good $ and not have to stare at a bunch of hairy faces all day lol.

My teacher was the best and I aced his class. Mike Basham was his name. Anybody know him? He was pretty far up there at ABC school.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

cultch said:


> He's gettin older now so I could go back. I wanna try this other thing I'm going after water restoration. Mold clean up ect. I got a good friend in the biz and he's trying to get me on. All these pipes bursting everywhere has them very busy right now. On the sales side you can make pretty good $ and not have to stare at a bunch of hairy faces all day lol.
> 
> My teacher was the best and I aced his class. Mike Basham was his name. Anybody know him? He was pretty far up there at ABC school.


fortunately the jatc took me in and I didnt have to deal with ABC. I had paid them and everything as a backup. got the refund and thank my luck everyday. even though the school side of the jatc is a bunch of crap....


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## QualityElectric (Jan 26, 2014)

cultch said:


> Full disclosure I never finished school which totally kills me. The only time I can get hired is when they have a mass hire cause their behind which is how I got my last 3 jobs over the last 8 years. Then I show up and knock work out left and right and always get promoted but nobody respects someone that doesn't have that paper.
> 
> You would think 2 years of school and 13 years in the trade would count for something tho.


Paper made of gold doesn't seem to help too much in this economy. I have a Bachelors degree and can't find a job anywhere.


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

chadw said:


> so are you saying there is a shortage at your company right now for the $25 to 35 range?? I have a hard time believing that.


That's what I am saying. In this area, with the declining manufacturing/industrial base, many companies I know are looking for specific skill sets (i.e. Progressive Die machinists, CNC Operators, Mold Makers, Welders, etc.) and have a very hard time finding them - especially experienced ones.. Like good Electricians, these folks don't grow on trees!


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

LJSMITH1 said:


> That's what I am saying. In this area, with the declining manufacturing/industrial base, many companies I know are looking for specific skill sets (i.e. Progressive Die machinists, CNC Operators, Mold Makers, Welders, etc.) and have a very hard time finding them - especially experienced ones.. Like good Electricians, these folks don't grow on trees!


oh ok I thought we were talking electrical here.


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