# Splicing Data Lines



## McClary’s Electrical

GEORGE D said:


> Is there any special way to splice data lines like cat5 for instance? I need to relocate some jacks further down in a warehouse, running new homerun would require roughly 300' of cable/pulling. How would you go about doing this as I have no idea about data systems?


 
If it's high speed data, I would not splice it. If it's voice, I wold use superbees


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## erics37

If you absolutely gotta, try an in-line coupler. But mcclary nailed it, it's best to leave it unspliced.


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## GEORGE D

Glad I asked. I was initially thinking small wire nuts! Shows how lost I am when it comes to LV systems. BTW, it is high speed. You guys would definitely pull new HR?


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## chewy

I wouldnt install a 300ft cable, its too long by the time you factor in the fly leads from the outlet. If you want to do it properly you will need to add in another cabinet and turn the ones that you are meant be deleted into an interconnect backbone between the cabinets and re-run out from there.

Its going to be crap but you could just mount a krone distribution box on the tray and have the cables feeding into it nicely and clearly mark it as the connection point, it wouldnt look as bad as having those inline connectors laying on the tray. 

For the super budget version... you could just scotch lock all the pairs and wrap in tape then hide them under the rest of the cables on the tray.


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## erics37

GEORGE D said:


> Glad I asked. I was initially thinking small wire nuts! Shows how lost I am when it comes to LV systems. BTW, it is high speed. You guys would definitely pull new HR?


Is it Cat 5, 5e, 6.... or what?

Those cabling standards have specific criteria that need to be in place in order for them to maintain the requirements of that particular system. You can't use Cat 5e jacks with Cat 6 cable and call the system Cat 6 for instance.

If you have a Cat 5e system the maximum cable segment length is 328 feet. If you exceed that then you're going to have issues, plus you can't consider it compliant with 568-B standards.


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## Edrick

I do have to applaud you for asking, most people I've seen just do it and think hey it works. Then we get calls saying for the past year I've had crappy internet I have no idea why. You ask them all sorts of questions they have no idea what happened. Then you find hidden somewhere beanies or wirenuts for a splice.


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## BBQ

Twist and tape, it's LV crap. :laughing:


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## TOOL_5150

erics37 said:


> If you absolutely gotta, try an in-line coupler. But mcclary nailed it, it's best to leave it unspliced.


These are the best if you HAVE to splice it. If you are worried about the signal, just run a test on the line. I have certified lines that have those splices in them before at cat6 level. Keep the connections tight and you will be fine.


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## GEORGE D

Thanks for input everyone, any advice such as books etc.. to get a better understanding on these systems. At this point in my life I'm definitely not trying to make a career out of it but surely need to be familiar enough with it considering I am an EC. Sadly I've went my whole career avoiding it and now it's haunting me!


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## mikeh32

rj45 end, and a jack work to splice it too. 

But i know some one said no more then 324 feet. while its good, I wouldnt go over 300 feet.


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## Edrick

BBQ said:


> Twist and tape, it's LV crap. :laughing:


Dem be fighting words boy. :laughing:


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## acro

I have used Scotchlok connectors just because I usually have them on hand. Keep the wires twisted right to the connectors.


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## kenc

GEORGE D said:


> How would you go about doing this as I have no idea about data systems?


The best advise I can give you is not to touch anything, and bring in someone who knows what they are doing.


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## NacBooster29

Use existing cable as a pull string. If they're bundled squirt some lube in it. Try not to splice it for data


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## Edrick

acro said:


> I have used Scotchlok connectors just because I usually have them on hand. Keep the wires twisted right to the connectors.


Sir, please step away from the data cable and put the tools down.


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## McClary’s Electrical

kenc said:


> The best advise I can give you is not to touch anything, and bring in someone who knows what they are doing.


 
This forum wouldn't exist if we all acted like that.


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## kenc

mcclary's electrical said:


> This forum wouldn't exist if we all acted like that.


:001_huh: There are worse things than knowing when you're in over your head and getting someone who knows what they are doing to help.


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## McClary’s Electrical

kenc said:


> The best advise I can give you is not to touch anything, and bring in someone who knows what they are doing.





kenc said:


> :001_huh: There are worse things than knowing when you're in over your head and getting someone who knows what they are doing to help.


 

In over your head with a piece of CAT V cable?? puuleeeeeeezzzzzzzz:whistling2on't flatter yourself


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## kenc

mcclary's electrical said:


> In over your head with a piece of CAT V cable?? puuleeeeeeezzzzzzzz:whistling2on't flatter yourself


Please yourself..



GEORGE D said:


> How would you go about doing this as I have no idea about data systems?





GEORGE D said:


> I was initially thinking small wire nuts! Shows how lost I am when it comes to LV systems.


You're right.. the OP isn't in over his head... he's got it all under control

:001_huh:


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## McClary’s Electrical

kenc said:


> Please yourself..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right.. the OP isn't in over his head... he's got it all under control
> 
> :001_huh:


 
He does now because he asked. No thanks to you though.


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## Speedskater

Hopefully anyone doing a high speed data line install, has received training. The CAT cables are fragile and can be mechanically damaged by incorrect pulling. Wiring the connectors is a skill. Sure it's not hard to hook things up and get date through the lines, but months later the customer may notice that the data is not high speed date!


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## Awg-Dawg

Edrick said:


> Sir, please step away from the data cable and put the tools down.


 
Exactly what molecular structure changes when they are spliced?

Serious question, Im curious as to what the big deal is?:001_huh:


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## 8V71

Awg-Dawg said:


> Exactly what molecular structure changes when they are spliced?
> 
> Serious question, Im curious as to what the big deal is?:001_huh:


It would be like trying to splice a coax cable together (without connectors) while keeping the exact mechanical and electrical properties. Almost impossible without a lot of tedious work. The twisting of each pair, and sometimes shielding, is important to the speed rating of the data that passes through. When you wire a simple splice block in place it causes an impedance “bump” and the input and output impedances of the wire no longer match and causes reflections (signal bouncing back and forth). Placing a tap, like a 3rd wire going off somewhere else screws with this matching big time. The higher the data rate the worst this problem becomes.


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## niteshift

8V71 said:


> It would be like trying to splice a coax cable together (without connectors) while keeping the exact mechanical and electrical properties. Almost impossible without a lot of tedious work. The twisting of each pair, and sometimes shielding, is important to the speed rating of the data that passes through. When you place a simple splice block in place it causes an impedance “bump” and the input and output impedances of the wire no longer match and causes reflections (signal bouncing back and forth). Placing a tap, like a 3rd wire going off somewhere else screws with this matching big time. The higher the data rate the worst this problem becomes.




Only getting faster too. For best results (meaning less data corruption)these are meant to be unspliced. SOP many places.


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## Edrick

I went to look at a setup once the guy was raving about how he use to do PLC circuits and wiring for huge buildings. The problem he was having is he couldn't figure out why the projector was only showing green for the video signal. I looked at the splicing he did because he wanted another input location.

He cut the multi pair coax run and used beanies to splice the copper core and shield of each wire. 

As much as some electricians like to insist its monkey work ive got to question then why do I see **** like that.

A current client of mine was complaining he was having trouble getting HD channels somewhere inside the wall the electrician spliced the RG6 coax put a F connector to RCA. Used stranded RCA video cable then switched back to RG6 coax. 

It's stupid things like this that keep me going. You can't transmit a RF signal over unshielded improper cable.


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## crosport

Some guys like to think they know everything just because it's low voltage.Let loose some of these guys into a government building or call center and tell them to run and terminate all the data and voice then have it certified.I'm positive things would be [email protected]#$%^ up beyond all repair.


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## chewy

crosport said:


> Some guys like to think they know everything just because it's low voltage.Let loose some of these guys into a government building or call center and tell them to run and terminate all the data and voice then have it certified.I'm positive things would be [email protected]#$%^ up beyond all repair.


"I dont understand why this aint working? we got continuity!" :laughing:


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## BBQ

I twisted and taped together two lines from two different cash registers to one home run back to the computer room.

Worked well enough customer was happy.:jester:








(Relax data geeks, temporary repair during renovations:laughing


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## Edrick

BBQ said:


> I twisted and taped together two lines from two different cash registers to one home run back to the computer room.
> 
> Worked well enough customer was happy.:jester:
> 
> (Relax data geeks, temporary repair during renovations:laughing


What? You tied two data lines to one home run?


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## BBQ

Edrick said:


> What? You tied two data lines to one home run?


Sure did, the demo crews cut a bunch of cabling and we could not find one home run.


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## macmikeman

OP, try a Krone punch down block if there is a must for a splice. Krone is the Mercedes of punch down . The other thing is you cannot exceed the current length limitations for any one run with your two sections.


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## chewy

macmikeman said:


> OP, try a Krone punch down block if there is a must for a splice. Krone is the Mercedes of punch down . The other thing is you cannot exceed the current length limitations for any one run with your two sections.


I call them mushrooms, they seem to pop up in dark places :laughing:


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## MDShunk

macmikeman said:


> OP, try a Krone punch down block if there is a must for a splice. Krone is the Mercedes of punch down . The other thing is you cannot exceed the current length limitations for any one run with your two sections.


About the only time I run into Krone blocks is in buildings that have (or had) a Meridian system. I like the fact that they are so compact. Takes a pretty high-dollar punch down tip. Like little scissors.


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## acro

Edrick said:


> Sir, please step away from the data cable and put the tools down.


Heck, that's going an extra mile. Hell, the uplink cable for the network switch I am connected to now was chewed in half by a rat that had crawled in a open LB cover. Our purchasing agent just fixed it by twisting the wires together and a little black tape. No wire nuts or anything.

That was on a weekend several months ago and it is still working.:laughing:


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## GEORGE D

mcclary's electrical said:


> He does now because he asked. No thanks to you though.


Good call Mclary, he acted as if I asked a plumbing question. Smart asses like him who respond with worthless answers bring down this forum.


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## acro

8V71 said:


> It would be like trying to splice a coax cable together (without connectors) while keeping the exact mechanical and electrical properties. Almost impossible without a lot of tedious work. The twisting of each pair, and sometimes shielding, is important to the speed rating of the data that passes through. When you wire a simple splice block in place it causes an impedance “bump” and the input and output impedances of the wire no longer match and causes reflections (signal bouncing back and forth). Placing a tap, like a 3rd wire going off somewhere else screws with this matching big time. The higher the data rate the worst this problem becomes.



Maybe it is getting better, but when I have to terminate an end, I have noticed that there is sometimes a difference in the twist on the pairs. Some pairs are twisted tightly, and some are not so tight.

Given this variation, I can't see where a properly spliced connector would make a difference in a 10/100 environment.

Maybe even for gigabit networks, but I don't have any test equipment to prove it.


Sure it is always better to replace rather than splice, but let's be realistic. A splice done with the 3m connectors I used HAS to be a better connection than what occurs when a patch cable is plugged into the wall socket, or the pc on the other end. I figure the signal degradation is cumulative. In most instances, there are 4 rj45 connections between the devices. One well made splice in the line somewhere is not the end of the world. A shotty one just twisted together may be.

Now, maybe if I get some official training and see some proof, I might change my tune.


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## 8V71

acro said:


> Given this variation, I can't see where a properly spliced connector would make a difference in a 10/100 environment.


I agree.....not so much of a problem at 10, and a bit more critical at 100. Someone was asking why so I tried to explain what was going on in the wire up to the higher speeds. Gigabit is really pushing the limits of twisted pair wire and the more careful one is with terminations the better the result, and it is cumulative as you mentioned.

We manufacture copper to fiber converters and the design requirements for board layout, circuit traces, and termination is huge between 10/100 and gigabit. The wire is basically an extension of these circuit boards.


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## chewy

acro said:


> Maybe it is getting better, but when I have to terminate an end, I have noticed that there is sometimes a difference in the twist on the pairs. Some pairs are twisted tightly, and some are not so tight.
> 
> Given this variation, I can't see where a properly spliced connector would make a difference in a 10/100 environment.
> 
> Maybe even for gigabit networks, but I don't have any test equipment to prove it.
> 
> Sure it is always better to replace rather than splice, but let's be realistic. A splice done with the 3m connectors I used HAS to be a better connection than what occurs when a patch cable is plugged into the wall socket, or the pc on the other end. I figure the signal degradation is cumulative. In most instances, there are 4 rj45 connections between the devices. One well made splice in the line somewhere is not the end of the world. A shotty one just twisted together may be.
> 
> Now, maybe if I get some official training and see some proof, I might change my tune.


They are meant to have different twists in the its the way the cable has been designed. This cable is CAT6a and you will notice higher twist rates in blue compared to brown.

Sent from my Vodafone 845 using Electrician Talk


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## acro

chewy said:


> They are meant to have different twists in the its the way the cable has been designed. This cable is CAT6a and you will notice higher twist rates in blue compared to brown.



Ah! I did not know that. Here, I thought it was poor QC.

Thanks



Good info.


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