# arc fault nuisance tripping and possible brown out



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

What is fixing your tripping problem? Almost all my fixes are eliminate the source(vacuum, CFL, pump or furnace) and either changing the breaker back to a standard or not not using the device on AFCI breaker.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Thanx for reply backstay.
I cannot legally remove the afci or it would bring the
new home in code violation


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Check all of your splices, and boxes make sure the bare ground is not touching device screws.

Check all of your neutral connections in switch boxes with more than one circuit, they must not be all together like the old days.

If all that checks out, then you probably have Sheetrock screws driven into your wires.

Check for nicks in your conductors and also check your stripped wire ends sometimes they get scored and break off...


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## knomore (Mar 21, 2010)

Line carrier automation devices will cause afci tripping problems. IE. X10 and Insteon devices.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

If touching neutral to ground will trip your AFCIs be sure you're not using occupancy sensors or any electronic devices that don't have a neutral.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

lighterup said:


> ...I have gone as long as 1-1/2 to 2 years with no arc fault issues.
> Then suddenly , upon completion after HO moves in , I'll have
> a house have multiple problems with arc faulting....


 How sure are you that you have not neutral-ground faults on these circuits? If you de-energize the circuit, and lift neutral and ground at the panel, do you still have continuity between them?

When there are these N-G faults on receptacle circuits the AFCI wouldn't see it and trip until someone plugged stuff in, which might not happen until after occupancy.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Megger the circuits first to rule out any shorts or over driven staples.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Big John said:


> How sure are you that you have not neutral-ground faults on these circuits? If you de-energize the circuit, and lift neutral and ground at the panel, do you still have continuity between them?
> 
> When there are these N-G faults on receptacle circuits the AFCI wouldn't see it and trip until someone plugged stuff in, which might not happen until after occupancy.


Can you explain that? What is the likely cause if an AFCI only trips under load?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Many AFCIs have a ground-fault detection feature that operates between 30-50mA (I've heard rumors about some manufacturers removing this function, I don't know who has or hasn't). 

If you've got a ground-fault on the neutral side of a receptacle or fixture, there's not gonna be any current flow without a load. Without that current flow, there's no imbalance, and the AFCI will never have reason to trip. As soon as the light is turned on or a load is plugged in, suddenly the current returns to the panel via both the neutral and EGC and the AFCI will trip.


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## Light the World (Aug 27, 2014)

I've had issues with Siemens AFI breakers. An electrician in my area ended up calling the Siemens manufacturer because he kept losing money going back to the job site and the rep told him to switch them out to the Cutler Hammer Classified AFI breakers. They are rated for almost every panel. Most problems have been solved. I NEVER install Siemens anymore and have had great success with the Classifieds... good luck!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Sounds like a guy should test arc fault circuits with an electric drill. I don't know where my corded drill is....  .


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

lighterup said:


> ...
> Since the gfep technology was introduced in combination with
> afci circuit breakers (per compliance with the 2008 nec) ...


As far as I know ALL of the original "branch circuit and feeder" type AFCIs had a ground fault protection circuit as part of the AFCI. That was not added when the combination type devices came out, and in fact at least one manufacturer of combination type devices has eliminated the ground fault part.

The UL standard does not require that the AFCI device have ground fault protection.​


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

lighterup said:


> I wire residential new homes for a living.
> In Ohio , we have adopted the 2011 NEC and are still
> currently under that code .
> The 2014 NEC does not apply here yet.
> ...



If you suspect there is a problem with the poco transformer or in line connections between it and your dwelling, install a temporary 2 pole breaker enclosure and 2 15 amp arc fault circuit breakers at the point of the service overcurrent device. Rig 2 receptacle outlets on 2 different circuits with no shared neutral between them into the 2 pole disconnect. Turn off the main overcurrent protective device for the dwelling during your test to eliminate any downstream fault during testing. Run a good size drill motor from each of those 2 receptacle outlets to test under load. If the afci trips on load , you need to call in the poco.


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The UL standard does not require that the AFCI device have ground fault protection.​


Neither does the Code. The "combination" arc fault breaker mentioned in 210.12 refers to a combination of detecting both series and parallel arcing faults.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Walkman said:


> Neither does the Code. The "combination" arc fault breaker mentioned in 210.12 refers to a combination of detecting both series and parallel arcing faults.


I understand that...my comment was directed at the comment that implied that the GFP was added to the AFCIs when they brought out the combination type AFCIs... it wasn't.

That being said, the use of the word "combination" for the series/parallel AFCI was a very poor choice as there was a "combination" AFCI/GFCI on the market at the time.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

99cents said:


> Sounds like a guy should test arc fault circuits with an electric drill. I don't know where my corded drill is....  .


Or... *THIS*


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

lighterup said:


> I wire residential new homes for a living.
> In Ohio , we have adopted the 2011 NEC and are still
> currently under that code .
> The 2014 NEC does not apply here yet.
> ...


Noooo


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

When there are issues down the line are they because the home sits then months later someone buys it? Time frame aside what's on the problem circuits? I say this because most houses I wire I put outlets on separate circuits than lights. The problem with this is some AFCIs need a load on them to trip so a bug eye registers fine at check out but the faulted circuit will still trip when the new homeowner plugs in appliances.


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