# Toaster in the Tub Myth (Just For Fun)



## socket_dude337

So I was watching myth busters and I saw their episode where they apparently 'proved' that dropping an electrical appliance into a bathtub would kill the bather. I don't know if I buy this. What do you all think? what sort of appliance would be most lethal? How long would one undergo shock before loss of conciousness or before death? How would a persons weight and body fat effect their resistance in a bath tub? there are just so many variables. What if the tub has a metal drain? and what about the size of the tub? what is the most lethal scenario ?


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## macmikeman

socket_dude337 said:


> So I was watching myth busters and I saw their episode where they apparently 'proved' that dropping an electrical appliance into a bathtub would kill the bather. I don't know if I buy this. What do you all think? what sort of appliance would be most lethal? How long would one undergo shock before loss of conciousness or before death? How would a persons weight and body fat effect their resistance in a bath tub? there are just so many variables. What if the tub has a metal drain? and what about the size of the tub? what is the most lethal scenario ?


.006 amps can be a lethal current to a human being. That is enough to start fibrillation of the heart muscle.


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## Big John

I'm sort of at a loss why this is even considered a myth. :blink: 

Electricity and water regularly causes electrocutions. People have actually committed suicide by dropping electrical appliances in bathtubs.

I think a better question is: Why do you think dropping a 120 volt appliance into a tub full of water wouldn't be lethal?

-John


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## Chris Kennedy

socket_dude337 said:


> what sort of appliance would be most lethal? How long would one undergo shock before loss of conciousness or before death? How would a persons weight and body fat effect their resistance in a bath tub? What if the tub has a metal drain? and what about the size of the tub? what is the most lethal scenario ?


You and the wife not getting along so well these days?


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## HARRY304E

Chris Kennedy said:


> You and the wife not getting along so well these days?


:laughing:


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## HARRY304E

socket_dude337 said:


> So I was watching myth busters and I saw their episode where they apparently 'proved' that dropping an electrical appliance into a bathtub would kill the bather. I don't know if I buy this. What do you all think? what sort of appliance would be most lethal? How long would one undergo shock before loss of conciousness or before death? How would a persons weight and body fat effect their resistance in a bath tub? there are just so many variables. What if the tub has a metal drain? and what about the size of the tub? what is the most lethal scenario ?





> what is the most lethal scenario ?[/


Dropping a toaster in a bathtub while you are taking a bath.

I think that you would be better prepairing your breakfast in the kitchen..


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## thegoldenboy

Not quite a toaster, but if it's in a movie it's got to be true. Right?


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## 480sparky

Here's the real deal:​


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## 220/221

The appliance in the water didn't trip the GFCI because there wasn't a *ground* fault.

If the guy would have touched the water and the faucet, I bet it would have tripped.


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## Jlarson

Having investigated many cases of people receiving shocks in tubs and showers I don't doubt that under the right conditions you could receive a fatal shock.


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## Roger123

220/221 said:


> The appliance in the water didn't trip the GFCI because there wasn't a *ground* fault.
> 
> If the guy would have touched the water and the faucet, I bet it would have tripped.


That guy is actually Ken, 480!!!

Busted!!!!


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## socket_dude337

Jlarson said:


> Having investigated many cases of people receiving shocks in tubs and showers I don't doubt that under the right conditions you could receive a fatal shock.


what conditions specifically?


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## crosport

Very unlikely that basin was even grounded.Probably hooked to the drain line with plastic pipe.Otherwise the g.f.i. would have to shut off.Just like if you stand in a plastic bucket filled with water on a wooden floor and you touch a live wire you still would not be shocked.


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## thegoldenboy

220/221 said:


> The appliance in the water didn't trip the GFCI because there wasn't a *ground* fault.
> 
> If the guy would have touched the water and the faucet, I bet it would have tripped.


In high school our teacher taped the trigger to a Milwaukee 1/2" drill, plugged it in and dropped it into a 5 gallon bucket of water. That thing sat there churning the water, he reached down into it and grabbed the drill, pulled it out and nothing happened.


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## 220/221

thegoldenboy said:


> In high school our teacher taped the trigger to a Milwaukee 1/2" drill, plugged it in and dropped it into a 5 gallon bucket of water. That thing sat there churning the water, he reached down into it and grabbed the drill, pulled it out and nothing happened.


 
Still no path to ground.


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## thegoldenboy

220/221 said:


> Still no path to ground.


Yes, I just thought of that.


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## Big John

220/221 said:


> thegoldenboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In high school our teacher taped the trigger to a Milwaukee 1/2" drill, plugged it in and dropped it into a 5 gallon bucket of water. That thing sat there churning the water, he reached down into it and grabbed the drill, pulled it out and nothing happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Still no path to ground.
Click to expand...

 Yeah, but unless that dude was standing on an insulated mat, that's an idiotic way to demonstrate it. 

-John


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## thegoldenboy

Big John said:


> Yeah, but unless that dude was standing on an insulated mat, that's an idiotic way to demonstrate it.
> 
> -John


Nahhhh. Of course not. That was to high tech for high school.


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## Jlarson

socket_dude337 said:


> what conditions specifically?


Depends on the person, what's in the water, the water pipe, the drain pipe, how the appliance does or doesn't contact them..... I've seen very sizable current flows to ground through old metal waste lines for one.


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## nitro71

I don't see that the a appliance dropped in a tub with you in it guarantees any type of shock or death. Could it happen sure. Will it? Depends on what happens. The neutral should be the best path for the electricity to take. Should trip the breaker. If it's not the best path could be the piping. If you aren't touching metallic piping and the appliance you might not be the path. Electricity probably would take multiple paths. Water can be a poor conductor. You might be insulated in a plastic tub of water.


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## doubleoh7

nitro71 said:


> I don't see that the a appliance dropped in a tub with you in it guarantees any type of shock or death. Could it happen sure. Will it? Depends on what happens. The neutral should be the best path for the electricity to take. Should trip the breaker. If it's not the best path could be the piping. If you aren't touching metallic piping and the appliance you might not be the path. Electricity probably would take multiple paths. Water can be a poor conductor. You might be insulated in a plastic tub of water.


\



WHat about the minerals and nonsense in the water. It would probably be less likely if you use a water softener.


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## nitro71

doubleoh7 said:


> \
> 
> 
> 
> WHat about the minerals and nonsense in the water. It would probably be less likely if you use a water softener.


That's true that minerals and salts make water conduct. Most water has plenty in it. My point being that it's difficult to know how well your water will conduct.


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## RIVETER

nitro71 said:


> I don't see that the a appliance dropped in a tub with you in it guarantees any type of shock or death. Could it happen sure. Will it? Depends on what happens. The neutral should be the best path for the electricity to take. Should trip the breaker. If it's not the best path could be the piping. If you aren't touching metallic piping and the appliance you might not be the path. Electricity probably would take multiple paths. Water can be a poor conductor. You might be insulated in a plastic tub of water.


I was wondering who would finally say it. The vast majority of current will go through the least resistance path. Why would it go through a person's body rather than everywhere else? The body would not carry enough current unless it was the major path.


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## don_resqcapt19

nitro71 said:


> I don't see that the a appliance dropped in a tub with you in it guarantees any type of shock or death. Could it happen sure. Will it? Depends on what happens. The neutral should be the best path for the electricity to take. Should trip the breaker. If it's not the best path could be the piping. If you aren't touching metallic piping and the appliance you might not be the path. Electricity probably would take multiple paths. Water can be a poor conductor. You might be insulated in a plastic tub of water.


It is highly unlikely that the current flow through the water would trip even a 15 amp breaker. There will be voltage gradients set up in the water and your body will be across these gradients. You could easily have enough voltage to cause 5 mA or more current to flow through your body. Your wet skin is a lower impedance path than the water itself in most cases. That being said you are correct, you may not be harmed, (or you could be killed)...it does depend on the actual conditions.


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## 220/221

> I was wondering who would finally say it. The vast majority of current will go through the least resistance path. Why would it go through a person's body rather than everywhere else? The body would not carry enough current unless it was the major path.


I bet you would hurt youself pretty badly trying to jump out of the tub when someone threw an appliance in there. :laughing:


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## socket_dude337

*Grounded Drain*

The question then is if the drain and piping is metal is it then necessarily grounded? Would the type of metal matter?


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## wendon

I'd say if you think your spouse is scheming about doing you in with the toaster, you better bathe in distilled water.:laughing::laughing:


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## gaffer1

socket_dude337 said:


> The question then is if the drain and piping is metal is it then necessarily grounded? Would the type of metal matter?


 The question is does it complete a separate path to ground. Electricity will take ALL paths to ground


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## Big John

socket_dude337 said:


> The question then is if the drain and piping is metal is it then necessarily grounded? Would the type of metal matter?


 Have you been using the last two years to come up with these questions? :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon

socket_dude337 said:


> The question then is if the drain and piping is metal is it then necessarily grounded? Would the type of metal matter?


Certainly if the metal piping and/or a metal drain would change the situation. 

I did an experiment similar to Ken's. I had a bucket of water- plastic bucket and I installed a 2 wire lamp cord to a ceramic socket- no box- and had a wp flood bulb installed in the socket. I plugged the cord into a a gfci receptacle and the light stayed on. I then put my hand in the water and never felt a thing. Gfci didn't trip.

Now take a wire from the bucket to a ground source and the gfci will trip.


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## don_resqcapt19

RIVETER said:


> I was wondering who would finally say it. The vast majority of current will go through the least resistance path. Why would it go through a person's body rather than everywhere else? The body would not carry enough current unless it was the major path.


 Wet skin is more conductive than the water.


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## Meadow

Pipes and drains aside, anytime on sticks 2 probes in water with a potential between them one gets voltage gradients in the water. All it takes is for that gradient to be high enough to push enough current through the body to cause problems.


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## Meadow

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Wet skin is more conductive than the water.


 
Salt makes water a good conductor, and most of the water in the body has salt in it.


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## 8V71

Big John said:


> Have you been using the last two years to come up with these questions? :laughing:


He just had to chew on it for a while.


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## macmikeman

Big John said:


> Have you been using the last two years to come up with these questions? :laughing:


Maybe he has wife #2 to deal with now.....


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## HARRY304E

socket_dude337 said:


> The question then is if the drain and piping is metal is it then necessarily grounded? Would the type of metal matter?


Welcome back.:thumbsup:


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## Bugz11B

Do the same experiment with something living in the tub/sink, the results will be different. I see someone mentioned they reached in the sink, were you wearing shoes? thought so. I hope this whole thread is a joke. 

*Explanation:* Just like mattresses, hair dryers come with a stern warning: Drop one in a bathtub, and it could electrocute someone who's taking a soak. The electricity flowing through the cord could jump to the tub's metal drain, sending electricity through a person's highly conductive body. For that reason, hair dryers today are also manufactured with ground fault interrupters that immediately shut down the appliances if they end up waterlogged.
But MythBusters Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage realized that there are loads of electrical devices sitting around bathrooms nowadays, so they tossed a radio, television and, of course, a couple of hair dryers into a bathtub to see whether the situation would have lethally shocking results.
For safety's sake, Jamie and Adam molded a ballistics gel bath dummy to be the guinea pig and rigged it up to an amperage meter to measure the amount of current running through it. At 6 milliamps of jolts, the dummy would be pronounced dead.
The radio, television and hair dryer without a ground fault interrupter all electrocuted the drenched dummy, confirming the household appliance myth.


Mythbusters aren't dumb guys... Im taking their word on it.


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## wendon

Erik.Schaeffer said:


> Do the same experiment with something living in the tub/sink, the results will be different. I see someone mentioned they reached in the sink, were you wearing shoes? thought so. *I hope this whole thread is a joke.
> *
> *Explanation:* Just like mattresses, hair dryers come with a stern warning: Drop one in a bathtub, and it could electrocute someone who's taking a soak. The electricity flowing through the cord could jump to the tub's metal drain, sending electricity through a person's highly conductive body. For that reason, hair dryers today are also manufactured with ground fault interrupters that immediately shut down the appliances if they end up waterlogged.
> But MythBusters Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage realized that there are loads of electrical devices sitting around bathrooms nowadays, so they tossed a radio, television and, of course, a couple of hair dryers into a bathtub to see whether the situation would have lethally shocking results.
> For safety's sake, Jamie and Adam molded a ballistics gel bath dummy to be the guinea pig and rigged it up to an amperage meter to measure the amount of current running through it. At 6 milliamps of jolts, the dummy would be pronounced dead.
> *The radio, television and hair dryer without a ground fault interrupter all electrocuted the drenched* dummy, confirming the household appliance myth.
> 
> 
> Mythbusters aren't dumb guys... Im taking their word on it.


Oh great one, tell us mortals what's funny about being electrocuted by a common household appliance? Did they try the experiment *with* a GFCI receptacle installed? It's hard for me to believe that they could come up with a dummy that would exactly replicate the human body!:no::no:
I'm not taking their word.:no::no: Maybe they should have just used soap on a rope!:laughing::laughing:


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## Bugz11B

Wendon you must live a sad life you like to argue to much, oh wait your smarter then everyone, including them, wait no your not otherwise you would have their level of education and probably be able to make the money they make. go do the test with yourself in a tub report back with results.
**EDIT** creating the exact resistance of a human body is easily done with even a little training 
**EDIT 2** Where did I say it was funny?? Its not funny that was my point. I dont think we should hint it may not kill somone because if it does you cost an american their life with you bull****.


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## Bugz11B

wendon said:


> Oh great one, tell us mortals what's funny about being electrocuted by a common household appliance? Did they try the experiment *with* a GFCI receptacle installed? It's hard for me to believe that they could come up with a dummy that would exactly replicate the human body!:no::no:
> I'm not taking their word.:no::no: Maybe they should have just used soap on a rope!:laughing::laughing:


1. You cant read, why ask a question about the GFI since it says it was NOT a GFI.
2. Why call me great one?? for trying to prevent somone from telling somone they wont be hurt by doing this?
3. You are a peice of all around ****, see me face to face if you have problem with me.


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## wendon

Erik.Schaeffer said:


> Wendon you must live a sad life you like to argue to much, oh wait your smarter then everyone, including them, wait no your not otherwise you would have their level of education and probably be able to make the money they make. go do the test with yourself in a tub report back with results.
> **EDIT** creating the exact resistance of a human body is easily done with even a little training
> **EDIT 2** Where did I say it was funny?? Its not funny that was my point. I dont think we should hint it may not kill somone because if it does you cost an american their life with you bull****.


You said you "hoped" quote unqoute, that this whole thread was a joke. Isn't that a subliminal message that says all of the contributors to this thread are less intelligent then Your Greatness? Are you saying that if someone makes more money than you, that means they are automatically smarter than you?:no: How do you recreate the exact resistance of the human body when, if I'm not mistaken, it would vary from person to person? As for me living a sad life because I like to argue...... how many teenagers do you have living in YOUR house!!:laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky

wendon said:


> ... Did they try the experiment *with* a GFCI receptacle installed? ........


Yes. I have done this.

With a GFCI.

_And it never tripped._

Used both a hair dryer (just churned the water around) and a clock radio (sound went all to he11, but it still worked).


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## Bugz11B

wendon said:


> You said you "hoped" quote unqoute, that this whole thread was a joke. Isn't that a subliminal message that says all of the contributors to this thread are less intelligent then Your Greatness? Are you saying that if someone makes more money than you, that means they are automatically smarter than you?:no: How do you recreate the exact resistance of the human body when, if I'm not mistaken, it would vary from person to person? As for me living a sad life because I like to argue...... how many teenagers do you have living in YOUR house!!:laughing::laughing:


I dont think im smarter then anyone, I have different ideas (as we all do except you, you are a sheep, an old miserable sheep) and thats why I read 1000 more posts then i respond to because learning NEVER stops. What I meant by I hope this thread is a joke is -why discuss something that can kill someone and try to say it wont?? water plus electricity is unsafe we as electricians try to make things as safe as we can but if you dumbass wants to tell a homeowner they can use cord connected appliances in the tub go for it bud.
Like I said they are smart, they test using ranges from the avg grown man, woman, all the way to children.
Your right the smarter you are doesnt mean you make more money, if that were the case you wouldnt be able to afford a computer to argue on.
*EDIT* Ill answer your last question, I have no teenagers in my house.


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## 8V71

480sparky said:


> Yes. I have done this.
> 
> With a GFCI.
> 
> _And it never tripped._
> 
> Used both a hair dryer (just churned the water around) and a clock radio (sound went all to he11, but it still worked).


Sorry 480....but in this context the only useful points in your video was how to clean dust out of a hair dryer and put an old radio out of its misery. :whistling2: :laughing:


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## wendon

480sparky said:


> Yes. I have done this.
> 
> With a GFCI.
> 
> _And it never tripped._
> 
> Used both a hair dryer (just churned the water around) and a clock radio (sound went all to he11, but it still worked).


And I, for one, take your word for it!!:thumbsup: I have a hard time believing some of these stories. If you put two probes in the water in a fiberglass bath tub, with plastic drain plumbing and connected 50 volts across them and you stood 3' away waist deep in the water, would you feel a tingle? I bet not. The voltage is going to return to the source.


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## 480sparky

8V71 said:


> Sorry 480....but in this context the only useful points in your video was how to clean dust out of a hair dryer and put an old radio out of its misery. :whistling2: :laughing:



Incorrect. If power were traveling through the water, the GFCI should trip. The electrons in my wiring are not trained to detect a human body.


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## wendon

Erik.Schaeffer said:


> I dont think im smarter then anyone, I have different ideas (as we all do except you, you are a sheep, an old miserable sheep) and thats why I read 1000 more posts then i respond to because learning NEVER stops. What I meant by I hope this thread is a joke is -why discuss something that can kill someone and try to say it wont?? water plus electricity is unsafe we as electricians try to make things as safe as we can but if you dumbass wants to tell a homeowner they can use cord connected appliances in the tub go for it bud.
> Like I said they are smart, they test using ranges from the avg grown man, woman, all the way to children.
> Your right the smarter you are doesnt mean you make more money, if that were the case you wouldnt be able to afford a computer to argue on.
> *EDIT* Ill answer your last question, I have no teenagers in my house.


Well, if you don't have any teenagers in your house then you have never truly learned to argue.:laughing::laughing: I don't think the original OP or anyone else was trying to promote using a hair dryer in the bathtub. I think it was more of a scientific experiment. Which, by the way, is exactly what the gurus on Myth Busters were doing. I don't appreciate being called a **** either:lol::lol:


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## 8V71

480sparky said:


> Incorrect. If power were traveling through the water, the GFCI should trip. The electrons in my wiring are not trained to detect a human body.


That makes it obvious that you don't know how a GFCI works. :no: :blink:


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## Bugz11B

And just to add a bit to mr.know it all sheep (wendon) do a little research, let me know what happens if electricity has multiple paths to ground, tell me if it bypasses all the paths except the path of least resistance or not  you may learn something. here i will answer it for you it will take all the paths, majority of the current will take the path of least resistance but not all of it.. did you go to school they have a cool class called science, maybe one of those teenagers can help you out  (although alot of electricians say it, and in our electrical systems its generally true, but electrically its not)


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## 480sparky

8V71 said:


> That makes it obvious that you don't know how a GFCI works. :no: :blink:


You're saying power is flowing through the water?


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## 8V71

480sparky said:


> You're saying power is flowing through the water?


Well sure it is. But in this case, with a plastic drain, all of it is returning on the neutral. Metal bonded drain and it would have tripped.


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## wendon

Erik.Schaeffer said:


> And just to add a bit to mr.know it all sheep (wendon) do a little research, let me know what happens if electricity has multiple paths to ground, tell me if it bypasses all the paths except the path of least resistance or not  you may learn something. here i will answer it for you it will take all the paths, majority of the current will take the path of least resistance but not all of it.. did you go to school they have a cool class called science


I think you and BBQ need to get together.:laughing: Where, in a fiberglass tub, will you find "multiple" paths to ground? The plumbing is plastic, the drain is closed etc. I can believe IF you were lying submerged in a cast iron tub with copper or steel plumbing and someone dropped a hair dryer in the tub without a GFCI installed in the cord or as a receptacle, there would be a voltage gradient issue. If I'm not mistaken, the voltage would have to travel across your heart to cause fibrillation. What if you're only standing ankle deep in the water?


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## 480sparky

8V71 said:


> Well sure it is. But in this case, with a plastic drain, all of it is returning on the neutral.


And,, will that trip the GFCI?

Of course not.

And I knew that.

I didn't need* your *'superior intellect' to know that.

You obviously missed the point of the video. Maybe it was to 'stupid' for you to understand.


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## 8V71

There should be a backpedaling emoticon on this site. :whistling2:


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## 480sparky

8V71 said:


> There should be a backpedaling emoticon on this site. :whistling2:



I'm sure we can get admin to add one seeing you need it.


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## Big John

8V71 said:


> Well sure it is. But in this case, with a plastic drain, all of it is returning on the neutral. Metal bonded drain and it would have tripped.


 That's my thinking. And re-reading that thread it appears I also had a go-round about that when it was first posted.


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## don_resqcapt19

nitro71 said:


> That's true that minerals and salts make water conduct. Most water has plenty in it. My point being that it's difficult to know how well your water will conduct.


Actually the more conductive the water is, the less current that will flow on the persons body. Studies have shown that current in salt water is not near as dangerous to a swimmer as current in fresh water.


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## macmikeman

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Actually the more conductive the water is, the less current that will flow on the persons body. Studies have shown that current in salt water is not near as dangerous to a swimmer as current in fresh water.


People drown in strong current all the time..


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## Stickshaker

wendon said:


> As for me living a sad life because I like to argue...... how many teenagers do you have living in YOUR house!!:laughing::laughing:


 F-f-f-four...


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