# Ideas to stop brown outs



## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

A new customer asked me to look at why his lights dim when either the microwave or hair dryer is on. I checked voltage, I checked ground and all are ok. I'm not sure what else I can suggest to help eliminate their brown outs?
They have owned their home for 7 years and it just started browning out 1 month ago, they had another electrician change the panel, which I would of suggested as well but it didn't fix the problem... Any advise would be great.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

well first i'd be looking at just what browns out Aus

*a *branch circuit

a number of branch circuits

all branch circuits......?

~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> well first i'd be looking at just what browns out Aus
> 
> *a *branch circuit
> 
> ...


 
Add to that list, an entire phase?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't see why the other guy changed the panel .. :blink:

What does the voltage drop down too when you use the microwave..

Did you check the voltage at the receptacle and at the panel.. 

Did anyone check the taps at the weather head..


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

gotta start somewhere & narrow it down....~CS~


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks CS, that something I didn't even think of, I just assumed it was the whole house. I only saw the kitchen dim and he told me his bedroom did with the hair dryer on, I will have to narrow it down to see what's on what circuit.
To answer those other questions, I visually inspected the taps from the ground and they seems ok, ice storm last year pulled the POA off the house.
I never even got out my tester, the brown out is less then a second so I assumed my meter wouldn't be accurate enough.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

Don't use the microwave and dry your hair with a towel, see what they say to that.


If only services calls were this easy.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Is it a manufactured home by chance?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

*Voltage Sag Light Flicker*

A brownout is an extended voltage dip, what you are describing is a voltage sag with a result being flicker.

Assuming you do not have a loose neutral or line connection, from the utility to the panel.

Changing the panel was not only a waste (unless there is something we do not know) it was dishonest and/or a sign of an electrician that IS NOT an electrician.

I have posted this several time, I wrote this a few years back, what skews this is the fact that the issue only recently started.


*Light flicker (dimming and restoration of light to near pre-flicker level) of lights, usually a result of motor starting and the resulting inrush current is a byproduct of several factors and generally is difficult to over come.

AC motor loads (in particular compressors) but all motor loads have inrush currents. These inrush currents result in voltage drop in the branch circuit, panel bus, service laterals, utility transformer and possibility the utility HV feeders.

Flicker is in addition user dependent; some people are more susceptible to flicker. For some reason flicker seems to bother women more that men (based upon personal experience).

A Voltage Drop (VD) as little as 3 volts on a nominal 120 VAC system is noticeable (by me), 2.5% VD.

We have had cases were the VD was all a byproduct of primarily single phase 120 VAC loads, in these cases we were able to put the lighting on L1 and all the motor loads on L2, the HVAC compressors were something the homeowner had to live with. This minimizes the flicker.


To test for this VD and resulting flicker to determine the source of the inrush, use a min max amp clamp and min max multimeter at the main service watch the lights(it may take two workers) and correlate to the meters.*

1. Is this whole house?
2. Or one or more circuits?
3. Perform the test noted above.
4. If it is a circuit measure FOP from the panel to the lamp with a min/max meter watching for flicker.
5. Try to determine what has changed in the last few months, new motors?
6. Measure FOP across the line to load on the panel with a resistive loan on the circuit cycling the resistive load
__________________


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

upgrade the service entrance to 350's copper. change all the outlets to 10ga, and all the lighting to 12ga. keep all the runs under 100'.

If you still have a problem, get the POCO to put in a bigger pot.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

noarcflash said:


> upgrade the service entrance to 350's copper. change all the outlets to 10ga, and all the lighting to 12ga. keep all the runs under 100'.
> 
> If you still have a problem, get the POCO to put in a bigger pot.


Rather than waste money and Wiz into the wind, why not try to isolate the REAL problem and then address the issue if possible? Randomly replacing parts with no clue what the problem is, is what makes the public think we are crooks.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Where did the panel changer go? Why did you come into the scene?


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks guys, that has put me into the right frame of mind, I have to test more and find the issue.
The reason why the previous electrician is no longer around is some issue with him not getting a permit or inspection or something along those lines, the husband said I needed to talk to the wife but either way they didn't want to use him again.
He wouldn't of past inspection anyway, no duck seal of the SEU penetration, no ground rod, just main water pipe grounded which was existing.
The homeowner said the old panel was corroded, that's way the previous guy changed it out.
I changed out a development of FPE panels a few months back, some owners said the had flickering, I told them to call me if it still happened after I changed out the panel, not one has called me back so I went off the assumption that old panels could cause flickering, good to know now that is not the case.
Serriously guys, thanks, this has been a huge help.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

You mentioned the service was ripped off the home and the panel was replaced due to corrosion. Was the meter socket replaced? If not check the bottom pinch connectors for the meter for corrosion and check the wire connections themselves. Is this brown out on one phase causing a spike in voltage on the other phase, if so then your loosing the neutral connection somewhere or there is a problem with the transformer. Try to load test each phase separately with a meter monitoring each phase to see if if you are dropping a phase or neutral.


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