# When you were an apprentice, how did you deal with journeymen giving you sh*t?



## xebo (Jul 6, 2014)

Occasionally I'll be working with a JW who is having a bad day, and he'll cross a line with me. If this were happening anywhere BESIDES work, there would be words...











But because it's a job I just let it go until I clock out. Not worth the stress or drama. Not worth burning bridges.

I was thinking about it today and I (and the other apprentices) are always the ones to "get along". It's like JW have free reign to be absolute d*cks, and the apprentices have to play nice. It feels like we're innately less valuable to the company, and if we stand up for ourselves we would be "messing with the winning formula" so to speak. Though this might just be my own perspective.

I'm wondering: How did you guys deal with this situation when you were doing your apprenticeship? Did you just suck it up until 4pm and forget about it? Did you lay down the law? Were you just obscenely passive aggressive?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

xebo said:


> Occasionally I'll be working with a JW who is having a bad day, and he'll cross a line with me. If this were happening anywhere BESIDES work, there would be words (or more...). But because it's a job I just let it go.
> 
> I was thinking about it today and I (and the other apprentices) are always the ones to "get along". It's like JW have free reign to be absolute d*cks, and the apprentices have to play nice.
> 
> ...


I just usually followed lead. I did have this one hot head that the boss put me with that was an ass. I told him that within a year I would be making more than he did. Within 9 months he got fired and I was making more than he did.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

At one time I worked for on prodigal son who was the lords worst Jman Xebo

Dude was a klutz that made up his own codes , had zero theory , 'effed up lots of the electrical world

So i quietly used him as a study guide, investigating, asking, keeping my nose in the NEC after every one of _his _debaucheries

Perhaps that philosophy can pay off for you as well

~CS~


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

I delt with it by becoming damn good at what I do and needing only my personal satisfaction as a reward for a job well done. 

You need to learn to tune out the a holes when they are being a holes and listen to them when they are telling you something you need to know. If you get all butt hurt just because someone is giving you crap they are just going to give you more crap.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Unfortunately, you are dealing with JW's that most likely got treated the same way they are treating you when they were apprentices. They assume that it's the way it's "supposed to be".

It will pass in time. If you want to be the bigger man remember how you were treated and promise yourself you won't do the same when you have an apprentice working for you one day. The whole point is to teach the next generation of electricians. If that doesn't happen there wont be one.

Pete


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

the first company i worked for had a hothead jw, used to give me **** for everything, but when the boss was around he was mr nice guy, he didnt last long. if you do your best. and ask when you dont know, and have a desire to learn. i believe that they have no reason to be jerks


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

xebo said:


> Occasionally I'll be working with a JW who is having a bad day, and he'll cross a line with me. If this were happening anywhere BESIDES work, there would be words (or more...). But because it's a job I just let it go. I was thinking about it today and I (and the other apprentices) are always the ones to "get along". It's like JW have free reign to be absolute d*cks, and the apprentices have to play nice. It feels like we're innately less valuable to the company, and if we stand up for ourselves we would be "messing with the winning formula" so to speak. I'm wondering: How did you guys deal with this situation when you were doing your apprenticeship? Did you just suck it up until 4pm and forget about it? Did you lay down the law? Were you just obscenely passive aggressive?


 just ignore it and keep learning...these people usually have underlying issues that haven't been addressed by a mental physician... Work hard, learn, and be courteous and respectful to others...


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

Elephante said:


> just ignore it and keep learning..*.these people usually have underlying issues that haven't been addressed by a mental physician.*.. Work hard, learn, and be courteous and respectful to others...


:laughing: awsome


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I was screamed at often as an apprentice and look how I turned out, I'm kickass


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

I learned from the best


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> I was screamed at often as an apprentice and look how I turned out, I'm kickass


 Yeah, but now you've bought your own set of Discipline Wrenches... and the tragic cycle continues.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

And so it goes...


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

I would ask them if they wanted to go off somewhere and settle it.
None took me up on it, not because I'm a badass, but I think they were startled that an apprentice would have the balls to call them out.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

ampman66 said:


> I would ask them if they wanted to go off somewhere and settle it. None took me up on it, not because I'm a badass, but I think they were startled that an apprentice would have the balls to call them out.


Really? There must be a story. It's kind of lame to call out your superiors just because you don't like the way they're talking to you. 

I might be rough on some guys at work but there isn't a one I wouldn't go and have beers with afterwards


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

xebo said:


> Occasionally I'll be working with a JW who is having a bad day, and he'll cross a line with me. If this were happening anywhere BESIDES work, there would be words...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ...........does not play well with others! I don't know if you would get along working with me. Why not just get over it? What do you consider "being a jerk"? Do they get after you when you screw up or do they just bully you?


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

A few of them made it personal with me, and I wasn't in the mood for it.
It was only a few. The great majority of j-men that I worked for as an apprentice were aces.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

wendon said:


> ...........does not play well with others! I don't know if you would get along working with me. Why not just get over it? What do you consider "being a jerk"? Do they get after you when you screw up or do they just bully you?


I'm guessing a rough day. I think we all had them when we were apprentices. I say he's just venting a bit.

Pete


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

One guy crossed a line with me. Happened he called me 'boy', along with the rest of the tone and all. I think it could have been anything at that point, happened to be boy. Just called him on it, told him I'd put up with 'bitch', 'helpie', a few I won't print, but I would not accept being called boy, by him. I think it confused him more than anything......those types are not difficult to dazzle.

We got along great ever after. And its not because I'm a badass.......its inspite of the fact :shifty:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Bullied, Manipulated, Coerced, Emasculated, Degraded, Besmirched, Stigmatized, Disparaged, Denigrated, Discredited, Tarnished, Tainted , Smeared, Debauched, Demean.....

If ya gots more than 3 of the above in any given week you could be an EC Xebo...:whistling2::laughing::jester:~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I used to tell them that one day, they would be an old man on my job.
It's happened so many times it is comical at this point. Some of them remember my comment, some can't remember much. :laughing:


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## xebo (Jul 6, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> Bullied, Manipulated, Coerced, Emasculated, Degraded, Besmirched, Stigmatized, Disparaged, Denigrated, Discredited, Tarnished, Tainted , Smeared, Debauched, Demean.....
> 
> If ya gots more than 3 of the above in any given week you could be an EC Xebo...:whistling2::laughing::jester:~CS~


HAH

Yeah I have very low standards. I'll unload and clean out the truck without being asked to. I'll sweep up the shop at the end of the day if it's dirty without telling anyone about it. If you're digging, I'll find an opportunity to get the shovel out of your hands and into my own, and I'll make it easy for you to leave and go to more important work (or deal with the customer).

And in return all I ask is that you PRETEND this stuff is appreciated. Token respect. That's it. I'll do the worst work in the shop with a smile. I'll go hard all day long without complaining or slowing down, and I won't expect to be praised or anything for doing my job. Just act like it's appreciated in some way. ACT like it's a team effort. 

I know it's BS. You know it's BS. But it's how someone can manage to do grunt work without quitting or getting "sick" once a week. Just muster the modicum of character needed to make the help feel valuable.

Or put 0 effort into it, and look what happens. The forum gets lit up.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

xebo said:


> HAH
> 
> Yeah I have very low standards. I'll unload and clean out the truck without being asked to. I'll sweep up the shop at the end of the day if it's dirty without telling anyone about it. If you're digging, I'll find an opportunity to get the shovel out of your hands and into my own, and I'll make it easy for you to leave and go to more important work (or deal with the customer).
> 
> ...


I appreciate this post.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

xebo said:


> HAH
> 
> Yeah I have very low standards. I'll unload and clean out the truck without being asked to. I'll sweep up the shop at the end of the day if it's dirty without telling anyone about it. If you're digging, I'll find an opportunity to get the shovel out of your hands and into my own, and I'll make it easy for you to leave and go to more important work (or deal with the customer).
> 
> ...


The sooner you learn that _your_ self worth is not tied to the opinions of others, the sooner _you'll_ be free. If you're doing the things you listed to please_ them_, you're slave to _their_ world.

Do the things you listed because_ you believe it makes you a better person_, electrician, whatever, ...and you win every time you see yourself make the right decision.

FWIW, I think your doing a great job.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ampman66 said:


> I would ask them if they wanted to go off somewhere and settle it.
> None took me up on it, not because I'm a badass, but I think they were startled that an apprentice would have the balls to call them out.


 I did that once and it rightfully cost me my job. Telling your boss you're gonna kick his ass is not a good solution, even if the boss is acting like a prick.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Big John said:


> I did that once and it rightfully cost me my job. Telling your boss you're gonna kick his ass is not a good solution, even if the boss is acting like a prick.


 the better solution is sleeping with his wife...j/k


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

You get your masters and become their boss


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

when i have a few bosses acting stupid with me i ask them politely 

what do you want to be when you grow up?

you cant be called for insubordination if asking a question politely 
as you are not calling them names or threatening them in any matter
usually the get the hint some just mutter and walk away:laughing:

many of them forget they are supposed to be a model for you to follow
and their abuse is showing you a poor example of what you are supposed to be


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## Awseay (Aug 19, 2014)

I just treat my guys more like I wanted to be treated. If they take advantage of that then I lay down the hammer. Also remember this is a dangerous field and mistakes can be deadly. Not the time to work on your manners.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

xebo said:


> Occasionally I'll be working with a JW who is having a bad day, and he'll cross a line with me. If this were happening anywhere BESIDES work, there would be words...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never let it bother you, but do not take chit that is unjustified, at that point stand up for yourself and lay down the law--- if you get fired for that then you are working for the wrong man,be prepared to walk and make sure they sign for every hour you worked so you can qualify for the journeyman exam---Good luck:thumbsup:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

xebo said:


> HAH
> 
> Yeah I have very low standards. I'll unload and clean out the truck without being asked to. I'll sweep up the shop at the end of the day if it's dirty without telling anyone about it. If you're digging, I'll find an opportunity to get the shovel out of your hands and into my own, and I'll make it easy for you to leave and go to more important work (or deal with the customer).
> 
> ...


Wow! Do you like green eggs and ham?:jester:

If what you say is true, you shouldn't have any trouble finding work. :thumbsup:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

I never really had an issue, I asked the jehovas witness kid if he had ever had a boner today... 

When I was a prospect in a club, you needed to walk on a knife edge of not looking like a bitch and not getting made an example of. 

You enter as an Omega, your hoping to rise in the pack to become a Beta or an Alpha, but first your going to be tested, its just a bit of banter, if you act like a cry baby you will be a cry baby omega, ostracised and off eating lunch by yourself. Theyre going to take the piss out of you, your the new plaything, eventually youll bite back, they will push you more until your at about breaking point then they will ease off and you will be like a Beta or "one of the boys" to put it plainly.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

1. Remember how you were treated and DO NOT treat your help the same way when you become a JW.
2. No one should ever be yelling or mistreating apprentices, I won't tolerate it. The lowest paid guy gets treated poorly, seems stupid to me.
3. Ribbing apprentices comes with the territory, if they are making fun of you and all is in general good natured ,it is you lot in the apprenticeship to laugh at yourself and them as they laugh at you.


Tough it out, complaining to the bosses will get you no where.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

chewy said:


> I never really had an issue, I asked the jehovas witness kid if he had ever had a boner today...
> 
> .


:lol:
see how you are!

Pugsley is most likely having a _'little jehovah'_ epiphany , and may end up on the church tower with the scoped 270 cal....

~CS~


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## fisstech (Feb 2, 2013)

i dunno. if you are being screamed at, bullied, etc. i think you are working for the wrong contractor. 

at the same time its important to know the difference between having your balls busted and actually being yelled at. the whiners/complainers/egomaniacs are quickly isolated around here.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Body language. Look him straight in the eye when you talk to him. Stand up straight. When you talk to him, project your voice. Don't yell at him but make sure you are heard.

Often it's a matter of posture. If you come across as a doormat, you will be a doormat. Even if you're not confident, pretend you're confident anyway.

You can tell a guy to screw himself with a smile on your face. You can also look him in the eye, tell him to screw himself and then turn your back on him. Same words, different delivery. Don't make it personal.


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

If all else fails, a swift punch to the throat will usually win over their hearts. Violence isn't always the answer...but, depending on the question, sometimes it is.


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## guy2073 (May 4, 2011)

I think a well placed jab in the nuts with a piece of conduit every time he steps over the line would do it.


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## KDC (Oct 19, 2012)

See, the first guy I was working with, had a real attitude about demeaning apprentices. 

As in, he didn't like it, and never did it.

So i got spoiled for anyone who fell into the old style cycle. 

If they pushed, I pushed back. Only got hauled into the bosses office once for that over the years.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Big John said:


> I did that once and it rightfully cost me my job. Telling your boss you're gonna kick his ass is not a good solution, even if the boss is acting like a prick.


I once asked a supervisor, as a JOKE because I thought we were friends, "Who put the stick in your ass this morning?" after he snapped at me for no good reason. I got hauled into HR, told I was being insubordinate, and fired on the spot. He later said "Sorry, didn't know that was going to go that far. Nothing personal..."

Yeah right... But, lesson learned. You are never "friends" with someone who can fire you. You can be friend-LY, you can do stuff together after hours, you can be jovial, you can be courteous etc., but never ASSume they will not fire you if they are in the wrong mood when you screw up.

As to the overall topic of abuse by J-men, the concept exists across all job types and classifications: some people abuse their juniors just because they can, some do it because they feel it's a right of passage for you, some do it to everyone just because they are mean. There are all kinds of different reasons, but to expect that it will not happen ever is to set yourself up for disappointment and dissatisfaction. My rule has been to just buck up and take it, because it typically only lasts until some fresh meat hits the table, then you are either forgotten, accepted or included in the abuser side (if you want to be). 

Or you find a better job by surviving the experience but acting professionally, and someone else notices that. They then either take you with them when they leave, or recommend you to someone else when they know of something you would thrive at. That sort of thing happens a lot more than people realize, partly because when someone is looking for good people, they ask people they already know FIRST, then trust their judgement for other recommendations. But people don't recommend co-workers who appear to be troublemakers, even those with justification.


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

The first time I attempted an electrical career I was 19. It was with a very large company that did mostly naval ships. As a woman, I was treated like complete dog ****, and I was sexually harassed constantly, until one day I woke up, and I couldnt go into work that day, or the next day, or any other day again. I was young, inexperienced and shy in life. I really should have sued the pants off the company, but I walked away and vowed never to work electrical or construction again, even though its a natural thing for me.

I spent most of my adult life after that bouncing from careers, some rather high paying ones even. Being I was also good at computers, I just focused my life on that. I held some rather respectable jobs, but they never satisfied me, sitting in an office. I couldnt stand it anymore. I wandered around for years, taking ****ty jobs, and quiting them in less than a year. Of course I tried other male dominated areas, and I found I had to behave like more of a man then the men, to be taken seriously. I had to be the biggest crudest **** I could be.

9 years ago, for whatever reason.. fate? chance? I dont know.. I was hitchhiking home from a job that I hated thinking to myself "Im gonna quit tomarrow" and got a ride from my now current employeer, who is selling me the business. On the car ride, we talked, and he wasnt your average construction guy. and he offered me a job as an apprentice. For many years I still behaved extreamly butch so I could be respected on the job. The person who trained me didnt pull the usual **** people do on apprentices. He treated me right, and I did whatever he said, I got into any crawler attic or space I could fit into (which is more than most people can... even as the the main lead, and future boss I still get into spaces cuz sometimes im the only one that fits). Id come home dirty, covered in insulation, and I never cried. I did any and all ****ty job.. and my lead and my boss treated me with respect. They trained me right, and never held me back because I was a woman. My boss has even had to defend me at times from HO's or contractors who were very displeased about a woman doing mans work. Especially a weird one. Both my JM's know we treat our apprentices right, as long as they do their job too. We dont bully them, or give them just ****. You dont spend two years putting in plugs. We train and teach you with respect. I totally dispise how any apprentice in any trade is treated poorly.

All that being said.. you do end up with ****TY apprentices! Our most notorious one.. who was terrible, thought he was smarter than everyone else, was a slacker, lazy and sloppy workmanship.. I cant say we were very friendly to him by the end, and yeah, he often had lunch by himself. One of the JM stopped training him, and dispised having him on the job, and if he did, he would just give him simple ****. and really he became an errand boy. Im sure he thought we were the meanest group of people, and jerk off construction workers.. but no.. its cuz you sucked dude! Just about when he was going to get fired, he saved himself some shame, and moved away and quit. The worst thing? His last two weeks it has come to my attention that he intentionally sabotaged installations.. which we were uncovering for months to come!! grrr. I want to deck him in the face.. the worst part is, some of his sabotage could have cuased some serious problems. Like.. how about making a box up.. but not stripping the wire, and tightening the wirenut down so hard that the coil inside cuts just enough of the sheathing to make a high resistance connection. yeah... ****ed up.. plug a wall heater in that and see how hot that wirenut gets! 

Anyways.. thats my experience. I dont tollerate treating apprentices like **** for no reason. I also dont think its cool to not actually train them. My newest apprentice is freaking amazing! He does any and all job, and will go out of the way for our company. He is going to be a star journeyman one day, and I hope to hold onto him. I even think one day he might be buying the company from me.


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

Sorry for all the cursing, but I have strong feelings on the subject.. also I tend to curse like a sailor. A result of working with men, but Im sure I overdo it.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

just got to learn to let stuff like that roll off your back there's always going to be people that ride you in life


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

learn to let what stuff roll off your back? Sexual harassment? Being treated like garbage for no reason? F- that. Its inexcusable. I dont buy it. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, unless they give you a -real- reason not too. Being treated like garbage at work is no reason because you are the apprentice? because you are a woman? because...? thats not a real reason, and at my company, we dont tolerate that. I would hope if one of my apprentices was being treated ****ty for no reason they would tell me. I know if my JM hates his apprentice because he sucks, Im sure as hell going to hear about it.

IMO yes, being an apprentice means you do some really dirty lowly work, you are the person working the hardest, and your learning, and deffiently trying to make the leads life easier, so they can focus on things that require a JM experience. If you put in that time you will one day not be that person.. However an apprentice isnt a second class citizen.. and if anything they are an investment. If they show a good attitude and willingness to learn and do it all.. There is no reason to bully them just because some JM a long time ago in your career bullied you for no reason. That kind of thinking needs to get out of the trades.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Really? There must be a story. It's kind of lame to call out your superiors just because you don't like the way they're talking to you.
> 
> *I might be rough on some guys at work but there isn't a one I wouldn't go and have beers with afterwards*


1. is it constructive criticism?
2. would they  want to have beers with you after work?


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## soc_monki (Sep 20, 2014)

im an apprentice right now, and if a journeyman was giving me hell there are a few things i would do. 

1) look at the situation and see WHY hes giving me hell. it may be that im not doing a good job! 
2) keep a mental note of how often it happens. again, it may be because i suck! if its not, keep track of the incidents.
3) if it happens constantly speak to him about it. if that doesnt work, go above him. chain of command. but communicate...if im messing up, tell me what im doing wrong, dont just chew me out. im here to learn, i cant figure it all out on my own! 

thankfully, so far, ive worked with good guys. at my regular jobsite the 3 journeymen, our foreman, and our superintendent are ALL cool guys, and while they can be demanding, are all willing to teach me a thing or three. when i went to the steel mill last week all the journeymen i met and worked with were exceptionally gracious and explained a lot, allowed me to use their tools (basically saying treat them like they are my own and not worry about breaking them), and had nothing but good things to say about me. 
one even told me out of the 4 of us (apprentices) i seemed like the one who would get the furthest since i actually seemed interested, and always ready to help (and no whining about when break was!) 

if all else fails, quit and find another job to work at. i never like to say that, but sometimes thats all you can do.


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## Jamesburke123 (Oct 29, 2014)

I guess it depends. If he is a knowledgeable journeyman I would say just suck it up. If he is an idiot I wouldn't take it as much but beware that it might cost you your job (journeyman are harder to come by, even if they are stupid they still count towards the ratio). I did however get a lot of jw's that were having bad days, and of course I was the easiest target. Most of the time they were really knowledgeable and could show me a lot if I could keep my mouth shut. don't forget you want whats in their heads. Now as a master electrician I TRY not to be a **** to the apprentices (some it cant be helped though). If they are willing to learn, and let me show them the correct way to do things, I will go above and beyond to show them every applied method and theoretical method I know. However if they are little know it all ****s or they are lazy I don't get mad, I don't demean them, I just ask them to grab a bucket of string and politely ask them to go sit on it out of my way. I make very good money doing what I do. If they are going to be a valuable member of the team one day I have no problem putting some labor hours on teaching them. if they are just going to spawn into another useless jw, im not wasting my time.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Why do people feel entitled to respect? Its earned isnt it? You make a reputation for yourself and that is very important as you move from different sites/crews.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

chewy said:


> Why do people feel entitled to respect? Its earned isnt it? You make a reputation for yourself and that is very important as you move from different sites/crews.


Because of PC and liberalism. Nowadays everyone is a winner just for participating.


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

Im not talking about respect as a tradesperson.

Im talking about respect as a human being. I dont care who you are, there is a basic level of respect that all human beings deserve until they dont. 

Its not PC liberalism!

You think people should earn a basic level of respect as a human being? What the f- and who the f- qualifies that?!?

Point being, if you have an apprentice, there is no reason to be a jerk to them, UNLESS they deserve it. 

I really love it... A call for respect on the job and being professional is pc liberalism? F-kin hillarious and sad.

If someone is a small guy? black? hippie? woman? gay? or just your FNG.. there is no need to make them earn BASIC level of respect. That should be given without saying. Its bull****.. for too long the whole JM/apprentice relationship, its like some guys think its their right to be a bully or a jerk to their apprentice for no reason.

Probably all cuz somene did it to them long ago, and its like some sorta machoasspigheaded rite of passage.....F- THAT!


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

I can only relate my examples.. but I am a hard worker, and Ive become a great electrician. When I was 19 working for a very large company trying to learn a trade and be helpful.. I didnt deserve to be sexually harassed, insulted, or told I cant do that job just because I was a young woman, and an apprentice. 

How about I come to your job site and bully you all day because.. I dont like how you look, or I just think Im better than you for whatever reason.. **** that. I once had a coworker at that job whack me with his hardhat on my hardhat pretty hard and call me a bitch. Why? Because I couldnt stand the sexually insulting comments, and references to me, and being told I shouldnt be doing a mans job. I finnaly responded back and told him to go **** himself.. he said "you want me to treat you like a man? you f-king ****?" whacked me with his hard hat and then said "Bitch".

thats no ok.. and its no ok wether its for any reason, and good apprentices dont deserve to be treated like bitches.. and bad apprentices? deserve to get fired. Its as simple as that.

9 years later, when I found a company and a boss who treated me with basic human respect.. I was the favorite apprentice until I became a JM in my own right. Because I am not a ****ty worker.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Im not talking about respect as a tradesperson.
> 
> Im talking about respect as a human being. I dont care who you are, there is a basic level of respect that all human beings deserve until they dont.
> 
> ...


You are a very angry person.


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

angry? explain how?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

chewy said:


> Why do people feel entitled to respect? Its earned isnt it...?


 Not everyone is entitled to respect, but everyone absolutely deserves courtesy. 

I've worked with guys who I don't like, who I thought were very poor at their job. Professional courtesy demanded that I didn't treat them like crap even if I had no respect for them and wasn't going to go out of my way for them.

I consider it a handicap when someone isn't courteous; it's like broadcasting that you don't know how to operate in polite society.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

360max said:


> 1. is it constructive criticism? 2. would they want to have beers with you after work?


1. Sometimes. Sometimes it's just "hey, move your ass"

2. I'd like to think so


It seems like the consensus here is new age apprentices would like habitual positive reinforcement. But I'm not going to pat a guy on the back after every task he completes. "Hey that's a great looking trench" or "hey way to unload that truck like a pro", not happening. I agree it's not cool to treat anybody like dirt but that's not the same thing as simply not handing out compliments all day. I like to award guys with more difficult tasks and more responsibility, I think it's more appreciated than bottled praise.


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

Im not gathering they want praise. Im gathering they dont want to be talked to like a b-tch and bullied for no reason.

Even if my guy screws up.. I tell him what he did wrong without getting pissed without treating him like ****.. If he makes the same mistake twice.. thats when I start to get mad.

Luckily the apprentices I work with only make a mistake once.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

If you are being treated like crap then just quite. To be honest I find people who abuse others a detriment. I don't care how much they think they know, my sanity trumps their insanity.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

I like to slap the taste out of journey workers...talking about how I should pull wire...I'll slap you...


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

You have a chip on your shoulder.


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

i had some chips in a bag earlier.. gone now


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

NoSparkSparky said:


> angry? explain how?


i am going to go with a shot in the dark and say your posts.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Im not talking about respect as a tradesperson.
> 
> Im talking about respect as a human being. I dont care who you are, there is a basic level of respect that all human beings deserve until they dont.
> 
> ...


Wow! I don't think I'd want to work with you. At least not when you're carrying sharp tools etc. :whistling2:


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

why? cuz you are a disrepectfull jerk to people?


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## xebo (Jul 6, 2014)




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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

Anyways, nice try trolls. 

Im an angry person with a chip on my shoulder? No.. Im pretty chill, and most everyone would tell you Im a pleasure to work with. 

Well unless they were jerks, then when they got a taste of their own medicine they'd run home to mommie crying about how I was mean I guess.

I dont walk around on a jobsite lookin for fights, I dont walk around talking **** about people. This was many years ago..

I dont tolerate harassment of any kind. Thats for all you guys trying to make up for something.

I doubt you have ever experienced harassment like I did. So what the **** do you know? You probably only ever gave that kind of harassment.


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## youeatwaffles (Jul 15, 2014)

My theory is: Do your very best, it hurts very little to do the **** work without asking. With many JW this will go a long way. When people give me crap, 99% of the time they are just busting my balls and I can bust a little bit back in return. When I screw up, I admit it and apologize for the wasted time and effort as it shows that you care about how well the company does. For a few JWs it's best to just realize that no matter what you do they are going to be mean to you, so there is no sense in getting all worked up, if someone is making personal insults at me I will tolerate it, knowing damn well that they likely have issues or are an "angry person", I just continue to do my best and keep one eye on the bright side. Just know that if you truly give 100% of yourself to your job, you may one day skyrocket to the very top levels of the trade. Also when that "quiet guy" starts yelling, people listen.


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## cad99 (Feb 19, 2012)

youeatwaffles said:


> Also when that "quiet guy" starts yelling, people listen.



So true


Living the dream one nightmare at a time.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

You shouldn't follow my example about how to deal with it. I was a complete a$$hole when I was younger and an apprentice along with the busted knuckles, broken bones, black eyes and bruises....not to mention the trail of lost jobs and opportunities, to prove it.
I was only treated poorly by one JM while I was an apprentice and that seemed to be a personal issue between him and I and it was after hours at a local pub. I still have that assault and battery charge on my record to prove it:whistling2:


Now.....I treat an apprentice as I was treated as an apprentice.....with basic courtesy and respect when I earned it and wouldn't be long tuning up any of my guys who repeatedly treated an apprentice badly for no reason other than they are an apprentice.


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

JRaef said:


> ...
> 
> *Yeah right... But, lesson learned. You are never "friends" with someone who can fire you.*


I learned that lesson as well. 110% true.


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Well unless they were jerks, then when they got a taste of their own medicine they'd run home to mommie crying about how I was mean I guess.


You sound like a jerk-off, I don't care how mean people were to you when you were a kid. That is no reason to be a prick.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Respect is earned. Period. You have to prove you are trustworthy and reliable to earn respect. 

However, people that are abusive just for the sake of being abusive don't deserve respect. Part of life is learning how to tell who these people are and how to deal with them.

The journey man needs to prove he is worthy of respect but not nearly as much as the apprentice does.


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Anyways, nice try trolls.
> 
> Im an angry person with a chip on my shoulder? No.. Im pretty chill, and most everyone would tell you Im a pleasure to work with.
> 
> ...


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

NoSparkSparky said:


> I doubt you have ever experienced harassment like I did. So what the **** do you know? You probably only ever gave that kind of harassment.


I doubt you'd believe that most of us older dogs have _experiences_ you've yet to encounter Spark.

Yet we do have a shred or two of sympathy for you testosterone poisoned lads, if only having managed such demons in the past ourselves

As you age , you'll not view those who demean you the same. That spark of anger won't rise as quickly within you either. You'll come to accept human nature always looking for that _'leg up'_ as the crutch of insecurity it is:whistling2:

And the best part? Well, you'll learn to use it_ against _them , even to extents where you'll make $$$$$'s off other's egotistical delusion(s):thumbup:

verbal Jiu Jitsu , it's what's for dinner! :thumbsup:

~CS~


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Jhellwig said:


> Respect is earned. Period. You have to prove you are trustworthy and reliable to earn respect.
> 
> However, people that are abusive just for the sake of being abusive don't deserve respect. Part of life is learning how to tell who these people are and how to deal with them.
> 
> The journey man needs to prove he is worthy of respect but not nearly as much as the apprentice does.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

What he said


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Im not talking about respect as a tradesperson.
> 
> Im talking about respect as a human being. I dont care who you are, there is a basic level of respect that all human beings deserve until they dont.
> 
> ...


That was diplomatic  .


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm a **** when it's needed. Electrical work for the most part is easy. If I go step by step and show you something as easy as entering a cable into a box, and the apprentice screws it up because he obviously wasn't paying attention, you're gonna get in ****. I'm a busy man at work. I have a an expectation level from all my guys to be able to perform simple tasks with guidance. If you can't do the basics I'm. Not gonna waste my time showing you how to install and wire a 225 kva transformer. I don't have time for lazy people that don't want to work


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

Big John said:


> I did that once and it rightfully cost me my job. Telling your boss you're gonna kick his ass is not a good solution, even if the boss is acting like a prick.


I really didn't care at that point.
Luckily, for me, I didn't get fired, and I was told by the guys that I called out that I earned respect from them by standing up for myself instead of rolling over like a little bitch.
They eased up, showed me the right way to do things, in a respectful manner, like men are supposed to treat each other, and things improved.
We laugh about it today.


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

You are obviously wearing that extreme butch persona in here for some reason. I think your posts are troll and you are an angry female apprentice.



NoSparkSparky said:


> Anyways, nice try trolls.
> 
> Im an angry person with a chip on my shoulder? No.. Im pretty chill, and most everyone would tell you Im a pleasure to work with.
> 
> ...


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I dunno, sometimes it's easier to let go of your baggage than carry it around with you. Everybody has a story to tell. Nobody said life was fair. If you have been the victim of injustice, turning it into a personal agenda only means the perpetrator still owns a piece of you. Let it go.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

I had a good apprenticeship, and learned from a lot of good guys. Sure seems to be a lot of whiney, wimpy apprentices complaining on this forum. Maybe the wrong profession for some.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

NoSparkSparky said:


> learn to let what stuff roll off your back? Sexual harassment? Being treated like garbage for no reason? F- that. Its inexcusable. I dont buy it. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, unless they give you a -real- reason not too. Being treated like garbage at work is no reason because you are the apprentice? because you are a woman? because...? thats not a real reason, and at my company, we dont tolerate that. I would hope if one of my apprentices was being treated ****ty for no reason they would tell me. I know if my JM hates his apprentice because he sucks, Im sure as hell going to hear about it.
> 
> IMO yes, being an apprentice means you do some really dirty lowly work, you are the person working the hardest, and your learning, and deffiently trying to make the leads life easier, so they can focus on things that require a JM experience. If you put in that time you will one day not be that person.. However an apprentice isnt a second class citizen.. and if anything they are an investment. If they show a good attitude and willingness to learn and do it all.. There is no reason to bully them just because some JM a long time ago in your career bullied you for no reason. That kind of thinking needs to get out of the trades.


Then go get a lawyer you big baby!!


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

dronai said:


> I had a good apprenticeship, and learned from a lot of good guys. Sure seems to be a lot of whiney, wimpy apprentices complaining on this forum. Maybe the wrong profession for some.



Same feelings here. The millennial age is full of a bunch of crybabies.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

dronai said:


> ...Sure seems to be a lot of whiney, wimpy apprentices complaining on this forum. Maybe the wrong profession for some.


 I wonder if that's not just because the ones who are happy with their jobs don't have reason to ask for advice about what to do?

That and trolls.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Big John said:


> I wonder if that's not just because the ones who are happy with their jobs don't have reason to ask for advice about what to do?
> 
> That and trolls.


There's the guy that is always whining about trenching ! How much trenching can this company do ?

I think it's trolling from a basement in their moms house. 

For the wimps out there, grow some thick skin, this is a mans job.


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

I don't cry about my job, i quite like electrical work and my apprenticeship.


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

dronai said:


> For the wimps out there, grow some thick skin, this is a mans job.


Oh that angry gal is gonna eat you for breakfast.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

The fact is...some journeymen are a$$holes, and they need to have their teeth knocked out for a reality check on how to treat people.
As a journeyman, and a contractor, I've never felt a need to belittle an apprentice, or ride him to the point of frustration.
If I'm not satisfied with an apprentice, I'll let him go, and wish him well.
Just because someone doesn't make a good electrician doesn't mean that they should be treated badly. Not everyone's cut out for this trade, and maybe that's as it should be.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

28 years later: My "Other" job, I work for two Engineers, one with a masters and his PE, and the other is a 40+ year Industrial Electrical contractor/Engineer. I get crap from them all the time with control stuff. No pain, no gain !


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

ampman66 said:


> The fact is...some journeymen are a$$holes, and they need to have their teeth knocked out for a reality check on how to treat people.
> As a journeyman, and a contractor, I've never felt a need to belittle an apprentice, or ride him to the point of frustration.
> If I'm not satisfied with an apprentice, I'll let him go, and wish him well.
> Just because someone doesn't make a good electrician doesn't mean that they should be treated badly. Not everyone's cut out for this trade, and maybe that's as it should be.


 I'm with you :thumbsup:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

ampman66 said:


> The fact is...some journeymen are a$$holes, and they need to have their teeth knocked out for a reality check on how to treat people.
> As a journeyman, and a contractor, I've never felt a need to belittle an apprentice, or ride him to the point of frustration.
> If I'm not satisfied with an apprentice, I'll let him go, and wish him well.
> Just because someone doesn't make a good electrician doesn't mean that they should be treated badly. Not everyone's cut out for this trade, and maybe that's as it should be.



And some apprentices are whiny little girls who need constant reaffirmation. Everyone, jw and apprentices alike, need to leave the tough guy attitude at home.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

After being in the trade for a good number of years, it's easy to tell the guys who are good, but maybe having a bad day, from the guys who have no interest in the trade.
Each apprentice is different, and it's up to the journeyman, or contractor, to know the difference.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

ponyboy;1367144Everyone said:


> I agree.
> But there's no reason to tolerate being sh!tted on.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> And some apprentices are whiny little girls who need constant reaffirmation. Everyone, jw and apprentices alike, need to leave the tough guy attitude at home.


I like when the new kid thinks its a democracy and expects compromise like his new age parents or PC teachers "go empty the trash", "why do I have to?", "Go empty the ****ING TRASH!"


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Im not gathering they want praise. Im gathering they dont want to be talked to like a b-tch and bullied for no reason.
> 
> Even if my guy screws up.. I tell him what he did wrong without getting pissed without treating him like ****.. If he makes the same mistake twice.. thats when I start to get mad.
> 
> Luckily the apprentices I work with only make a mistake once.


this i agree with totally you are using as a training experience this makes you a good jw or master
and as big jon said everyone deserves courtesy 
any jm/ jw or master who is treating an apprentice like crap only shows their own ignorance.
how you train a person to be a skilled and competent individual reflects on you.

is it a crime to be angry about abusive treatment? If it is then Im a criminal myself im pretty much angry all the time


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

When I was in junior high school, there was a kid who was always beating me up and ridiculing me. I never fought back. I just took it. I hated going to school and lived in fear. I could walk around the corner in a hallway and this guy and his friends would punch me in the face and stuff me in a locker. He moved away one summer and that was happy news. I carried those scars into adulthood.

I went into business and got a call one day from an electrical contractor. It turned out to be this guy. We started talking and it soon became apparent that he was completely oblivious. He started naming names and asked if I kept up with any of them. These were his friends, however, not mine. Why would I try to be friends with people who beat me up and stuffed me in lockers?

Anyway, that was kind of a turning point. For him, abuse was normal. I dunno, maybe he got beat up at home. I didn't have as many scars after that. 

We connected a few times after that and he wasn't a bad guy. I even met his wife. She was a complete scrag, always ragging on him. Did that kinda make me feel good? I have to admit it did. Karma's a b***h  .

Edit: My point is that everybody has their issues. You can't carry that chit around with you all your life because you only end up hurting yourself. The blame game never works.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Every dog has his day fellas....

~CS~


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> Every dog has his day fellas....
> 
> ~CS~


Not the puppies that end up in a sack in the river. I don't think they get their day.

:whistling2:


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I did work under this one guy. He was a friend of mine. He actually got me into this trade. He was an a$$ to me at work. Critisized my work, bitched about everything, always interupted me when I was talking to him or asking questions. He is dead now.


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

Lep said:


> Then go get a lawyer you big baby!!


dont you know causing a big hubub on an internet forum will give her closure, and justice


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Anyways, nice try trolls.
> 
> 
> I dont walk around talking **** about people. This was many years ago..
> ...


You just do it on an online forum............:whistling2: I'm starting to understand why you got hassled at work.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

99cents said:


> When I was in junior high school, there was a kid who was always beating me up and ridiculing me. I never fought back. I just took it. I hated going to school and lived in fear. I could walk around the corner in a hallway and this guy and his friends would punch me in the face and stuff me in a locker. He moved away one summer and that was happy news. I carried those scars into adulthood.
> 
> I went into business and got a call one day from an electrical contractor. It turned out to be this guy. We started talking and it soon became apparent that he was completely oblivious. He started naming names and asked if I kept up with any of them. These were his friends, however, not mine. Why would I try to be friends with people who beat me up and stuffed me in lockers?
> 
> ...


I feel sorry for the smaller guy etc. I never was much on beating up on classmates but when I was younger they gave me a nickname I didn't care for. I got called that name for a number of years. The last time was when one of the guys called me by that name and I picked him up an threw him into a nearby shrub. End of name calling.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

99cents said:


> My point is that everybody has their issues. You can't carry that chit around with you all your life because you only end up hurting yourself. The blame game never works.


 I guess many people don't really know that they're carrying around old baggage until a situation comes up that brings those old feelings to the surface again.
Seems like the more someone was fukked with in their youth, the stronger the reaction is when they're fukked with as an adult.
I think the smart move is to treat people with courtesy, because you never know how big a can of worms you'll be opening up.


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## bull mike (Nov 4, 2014)

It does not matter whether you're an apprentice or a journeyman . There are always gonna be electrician's that don't know how to treat people. You can ignore it for awhile but if it gets too stressful talk to the next person higher or HR you do have rights


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## four-eighty (Apr 25, 2014)

We have a journeyman that had a (IDIOT) master he used to work for sign off on his hours when he was like a 2nd year apprentice and he's like 50 years old so he never had to pass a journeyman exam. 

(It's important to note that I work for a small company that just happens to be VERY hard up for people right now.)

I have 2 years experience in wiring industrial control panels and 3 years in commercial/residential electric and I honestly feel i'm 2x the worker this guy is mentally and physically.

He is an extremely obnoxious man who when I first started would tell me things like

"Aww your lucky you dont have it like i did when i had it comin up.... you dont have to do **** around here"


"Do you even have a journeyman license? Why dont you get a journeyman license like me?"


"I'm a real journeyman electrician you can't do this ****."


Now a days we still work together but our conversations go like this 


"Glen: Hey four-eighty go out to my truck and get that fish tape and push it down that conduit down there, and do it ****ing quick I gotta get this **** done"

"Me: Nah, go do it your self and i'll help feed the wire when your pulling. I'm gonna go wire can lights and if you dont like it you can get glad in the same pants you got mad in"


"Glen: mumbles expletives under his breathe"


Our bosses think it's great :laughing::laughing::laughing: I dont get mad at them for having to keep him around because he works for cheap and i actually kind of feel sorry for him sometimes, but... yeah he's the journeyman and i'm the apprentice and I pretty much just tell him to f- off if he tries to get me to help him with something. My bosses dont even care lol.

We actually get a long a lot better now days too for some reason.
:thumbsup:


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## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

four-eighty said:


> We have a journeyman that had a (IDIOT) master he used to work for sign off on his hours when he was like a 2nd year apprentice and he's like 50 years old so he never had to pass a journeyman exam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I feel you all too well brother

My first two years i had to deal with the worst in the worst. Every day was absolute endless hell. But now that i have some experience and worth, i don't let anyone disrespect me or tell me to be a gopher. (Unless its the boss of course)


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

When your an apprentice and f*cking with your phone, instead of paying attention to the 40' ladder your journeyman is on... your going to get a facefull of sh!t. Deal with it. 

When you meander to the truck like a romantic stroll on the beach, you're gonna get "growled at". Deal with it. 

When your texting someone and I'm waiting for you to hand me something, you're gonna get "barked at". Deal with it. 

When it's 40 deg C and you're half cooked and your journeyman tells you to get off the ladder and hydrate in the shade. Don't debate that you want to finish something first. You're gonna get "growled at then barked at". 

If you act like an interested person that wants to learn the trade, keep each other safe, work hard and not think you know everything, then you're going to have a fun, humorous supervisor that makes sure you learn something new every day and demonstrate something you learned on previous days. 

If you want to be a disinterested, know it all, move like a ton of crap in a high wind that spends most of the day texting twit with an apprentice title... then you're going to have a few "in your face" conversations with me. Deal with it as it's your last chance before the door. Lol drill Sgt "chewings" can be a "turning point" for some apprentices. Snaps the diaper right off of some.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

My apprenticeship days were spent mainly under a bunch of WWII vets. Some nice, some not so nice. The main thing they had in common was they would just tell you to do something, not ask, not say please, and not sugar-coat it in any way. Just said to do it.

It may not have sounded real friendly but it went straight to the point.

Some journeymen understood they were supposed to teach apprentices how to do things and would actually take the time to explain things.

Others would just say watch and learn. Usually those guys would never tell you WHY they did it a certain way. Often times the WHY is important and I always appreciated it when this was done.

Some were just plain jerks that took pleasure in abusing apprentices. A couple of times other journeymen took me aside and said just to take it and remember who those were and maybe they'd be working for me sometime in the future.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

First post on a 2014 post and straight to calling someone a dickhead.

Just f-ing charming


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

gpop said:


> First post on a 2014 post and straight to calling someone a dickhead.
> 
> Just f-ing charming


My kinda guy!


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## radio208 (Aug 27, 2014)

And what happened to the D/H's post? That great post-hole in the sky?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

How to deal with a jerk.........

1) Let the air out of his tires.

2) Place a nest of bees and/or a medium-size bear in his truck. This works much better if it is placed in the cab part. 

3) Lure him into the 'target zone' then suddenly release a heavy object from a great height. This is known as the 'jerk miniaturization process'........


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

micromind said:


> How to deal with a jerk.........
> 
> 1) Let the air out of his tires.
> 
> ...


hIT HIM ON THE HEAD WITH A BRICK.

aLWAYS WORKED FOR ME


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

LGLS said:


> My kinda guy!



Guy deleted his post now i feel like a bully. 
uck-it im going to my safe space and picking on my trainee until i feel better about myself 

Actually my trainee's on vacation and i really miss him. I lost 3 screwdrivers, a volt meter and phone today. If hes not back soon im going to run out of tools.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

gpop said:


> Guy deleted his post now i feel like a bully.
> uck-it im going to my safe space and picking on my trainee until i feel better about myself
> 
> Actually my trainee's on vacation and i really miss him. I lost 3 screwdrivers, a volt meter and phone today. If hes not back soon im going to run out of tools.


You're not a bully......anyone who read the post would consider what you posted to be appropriate. 

Making a first post with guns-a-blazin is generally not the best idea.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

gpop said:


> Guy deleted his post now i feel like a bully.
> uck-it im going to my safe space and picking on my trainee until i feel better about myself
> 
> Actually my trainee's on vacation and i really miss him. I lost 3 screwdrivers, a volt meter and phone today. If hes not back soon im going to run out of tools.


What's his nickname, Magnet?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

LGLS said:


> hIT HIM ON THE HEAD WITH A BRICK.
> 
> aLWAYS WORKED FOR ME


Truth be told...

It also always worked on me as well... sometimes we lose ourselves no matter how good our intentions might have been. More than once I needed, and got a well earned tune up.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

gpop said:


> Guy deleted his post now i feel like a bully.


Your fine. He did not delete it. It was deleted for him.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

It really depends on why or what, and how.

am I being given **** because I did something wrong and they want to correct what I did and for me not to do it again?

Or am I being given **** to make me feel like I’m garbage at my job and that I don’t have a place here?

i react two very different ways


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## DragnUp (Jun 18, 2021)

the old days are past and gone. most medium- and large-sized electrical companies have zero tolerance for any kind of hazing, threats, bullying, etc....

when we take on a new hire, we're friendly and helpful with them from Day One. 

unfortunately, some folks learn better through negative reinforcement. also, some folks may mistake kindness for weakness, and try to take advantage of friendliness. 

part of my job - what i get paid for - is getting along with my co-workers. so i try to regularly check my attitude and stop myself from ever getting too worked up about work. i can apologize after blowing up, but i'd rather work on blowing up a lot less often. with some dedicated practice, i'm improving, but i think getting older helps alot too.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

The journeymen were scared of me.

Kind of a reverse-hazing, if you will.


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## superdeez (Sep 13, 2010)

The old days aren't entirely past and gone. 

When I was a 4th year I had my own bully on a job that I was on for thankfully only 64 days. This guy was a CE1, but he supposedly had done everything he needed to do to become a JW but he couldn't change classification because the big company we both worked for wouldn't lay him off and he couldn't quit. As a 4th year, I made perhaps 20 cents more than he did. He mercilessly bullied me, day in and day out. The foreman knew it and the foreman even joked that one day I was going to come onto the job with something I shouldn't and put myself on the news. The lowest point was when we were working together alone in the electric room and he began to call me "Sally", I refused to answer to that name and he simply said that it was the two of us in here with no cameras. We both had tools (keyhole saws, knives, hammers, etc.) that qualified as dangerous weapons and he could give me a whooping and then tell the police that I attacked him for the constant bullying. I realized this was a plausible scenario. I actually might have even been tempted to start with him, but he bragged he was on steroids and his arms were bigger than my legs. Would I have not had so much time in I likely would have quit. This guy even had a list of both apprentices and even JWs he had made drag. The last couple weeks we were split up and then this guy tried to be my friend and acted offended when I wouldn't speak to him. We all got laid off and I haven't seen the man since and frankly, if I never do again it will still be too soon. 

I got very very lucky the rest of my apprenticeship however. Most of the guys I worked with were respectful and some really wanted to share knowledge with me.


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## B.Jenkins (Apr 14, 2016)

xebo said:


> Occasionally I'll be working with a JW who is having a bad day, and he'll cross a line with me. If this were happening anywhere BESIDES work, there would be words...


Depends on several factors, one if I did something stupid or forgetful then I would roll with the punches and promise to try to improve, keep in mind we all have bad days and I learned early on to never take it personal if someone is having one bad day and is lashing out at me BUT if I'm having a bad day and you're there riding my ass nitpicking at every little thing even before I'm finished with a task I'll give you **** right back.

As an apprentice I learned to not put up with anyone's crap if it was a lead guy or someone else on the crew trying to boss me around, had an incident once with a lead guy giving everyone **** then would sit on his ass the rest of the time, he started demanding I take lunch when in fact already discussed with my foreman about skipping lunch because the customer on this big commercial/industrial job we were doing asked if I could button something up for him.

Anyhow I told the lead guy to go back to sitting on your ass like you've been doing most of the day in front of the entire crew LOL so I walked away from him out into the parking lot where he chased me down and started going on a long rant, the foreman and operations manager got a chuckle out of it and the lead guy was very nice to me after that exchange BUT you always have to pick and choose your battles!


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

I'm sure there is a Thread somewhere,

*When you were a journeymen, how did you deal with an apprentice giving you sh*t?*


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