# Going from hall guy to shop guy



## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

So things are picking up and contractors are starting to take in a lot more guys from the hall. Right now on my job we have the guys who were taken in from the hall and didn't get flipped right away, and what I refer to as the "shop guys" who have been regular with the shop for a bit. My question is when or how long does it take to be a shop guy and how do you know you've become one? One year? One transfer? What?


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

when they start transferring you to other jobs consistantly when layoffs happen


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

360max said:


> when they start transferring you to other jobs consistantly when layoffs happen


Good one. This could go in then union electrician dictionary.


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## Mich drew (Mar 3, 2013)

henderson14 said:


> So things are picking up and contractors are starting to take in a lot more guys from the hall. Right now on my job we have the guys who were taken in from the hall and didn't get flipped right away, and what I refer to as the "shop guys" who have been regular with the shop for a bit. My question is when or how long does it take to be a shop guy and how do you know you've become one? One year? One transfer? What?



You need to try and always have the mindset that you are a " shop guy " every time you go out to work for a contractor. The union does not employ you , the contractor does. If you always try to do your best, and you are good at what you do, a contractor will eventually keep you over other people when they notice your effort. Just remember though, when work gets slow, contractors have to let people go. It is the nature of the business.
I have been a union member for 27 years and have only worked for 5 different contractors. A couple gigs that lasted over 10 years.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Mich drew said:


> You need to try and always have the mindset that you are a " shop guy " every time you go out to work for a contractor. The union does not employ you , the contractor does. If you always try to do your best, and you are good at what you do, a contractor will eventually keep you over other people when they notice your effort. Just remember though, when work gets slow, contractors have to let people go. It is the nature of the business.
> I have been a union member for 27 years and have only worked for 5 different contractors. A couple gigs that lasted over 10 years.


I respectfully disagree.

The union butters my bread, not the contractor and while I absolutely agree that we out to go out and do our best, it is not for personal advancement but to promote the local. The contractor does better and we do better when we do out jobs as well as we can. Everyone wins.

I have worked for countless contractors out of multiple union halls. I generally refuse transfers, not because there is anything wrong with transferring but because I personally believe in job termination.

To answer the OP - you become a shop guy when the shop becomes what you associate with instead of the local. I know plenty of long term shop employees I would still consider hall trash.

Enjoy the good times, put some money aside for the inevitable bad times and keep improving yourself and your conditions.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Mich drew said:


> You need to try and always have the mindset that you are a " shop guy " every time you go out to work for a contractor. The union does not employ you , the contractor does. If you always try to do your best, and you are good at what you do, a contractor will eventually keep you over other people when they notice your effort. Just remember though, when work gets slow, contractors have to let people go. It is the nature of the business.
> I have been a union member for 27 years and have only worked for 5 different contractors. A couple gigs that lasted over 10 years.


 Only if others had this same mind set it would make life so much better and would also help work situations. We had a guy here about 6 months ago that kept getting slower and slower in his work. Foreman had a conversation with him and told him he needed to speed back up a bit. Which this guy answered, I dont think so, That is why i joined the Union.Attitudes like the one this guy has is what hurts the Union.


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

Gosh - washed me eyes and balls, linked in from another site. sorry mates I'll have me another go at her after the tankard of Fosters run dry.


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## zman98 (Apr 7, 2014)

I think it's a 50/50 split.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Everybody sounded really professional and admirable . Except one of course but we've come to expect that from him.


I'm pretty sure you know where I'm standing on this one. There's one answer here that simply makes me go...:blink::blink::blink:


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Mich drew said:


> You need to try and always have the mindset that you are a " shop guy " every time you go out to work for a contractor. The union does not employ you , the contractor does. If you always try to do your best, and you are good at what you do, a contractor will eventually keep you over other people when they notice your effort. Just remember though, when work gets slow, contractors have to let people go. It is the nature of the business.
> I have been a union member for 27 years and have only worked for 5 different contractors. A couple gigs that lasted over 10 years.


Great post, and I agree----this could be a first Mich:thumbsup::laughing:



eejack said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> The union butters my bread, not the contractor and while I absolutely agree that we out to go out and do our best, it is not for personal advancement but to promote the local. The contractor does better and we do better when we do out jobs as well as we can. Everyone wins.
> 
> ...


AS a contractor I need guys that are dependable, willing to do the best quality work. slow steady quality workers that get it done right the first time will stay on-board with me as long as possible, fast and sloppy along with milk men will not.

What happens when you refuse transfers, do you go back to the hall and collect until another job comes in?

I can imagine some of the super large contractors will move men around to cover several jobs going at the same time.

Also guys that are willing to move around helping the contractor get it done so he can bid and win more work seems to be a good thing for the men and the Union.


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## zman98 (Apr 7, 2014)

There are guys who never miss a beat, guys that the contractor try's to keep on until work runs out and guys get hired for a job, then get laid off.Some because work gets slow and some because their just loads.ive been in the union for over 25 years with 4 contractors. I only quite 1 because the job was coming to end and was offered a long term job.I don't burn bridges with contractors.When a job ends and there's no transfer move on.No hard feelings.Its just the nature of the business .Your reputation always follows you.When I'm laid off I have no problem working a picket line.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> So things are picking up and contractors are starting to take in a lot more guys from the hall. Right now on my job we have the guys who were taken in from the hall and didn't get flipped right away, and what I refer to as the "shop guys" who have been regular with the shop for a bit. My question is when or how long does it take to be a shop guy and how do you know you've become one? One year? One transfer? What?


If you worry too much about being a shop guy...or a regular you are wasting valuable work time. Do the job you are given...give it your all, and if all works out well you will be let go just before the boss's son- in -law.


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

I worked with a guy from a big local once, I asked him a lot of questions because at the end of the job he always took a lay off, never a transfer. It wasn't for vacation, it wasn't for unemployment, and it wasn't for another big call coming up. He told me straight faced that the job was over, and now it was another brothers turn to work. I asked " what about your kids?" He said "What about my brothers kids?" It blew my mind, he treated the brotherhood as family, everybody should get a chance to work and get their turn to make the local look good. He worked his ass off too! He believed that if every brother did their job to work hard and make the contractors look good, every brother would get a chance to work and get paid. We've all got mouths to feed, But if we are all brothers, we should all get a bite.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

On the flip side of the rotation theory is a contractor has to know who his employees are, what are there strengths and weakness. Most bids are based off of historical information. While maybe if all jobs were big, cookie cutter jobs something like that would work.

As far as I know, the International office is against furloughs. They are practically illegal. I only know of one local that has them. And they are too large, and had them to long, to try and take that away from them.

Our local won't even reduce the work week to 32 hours. They have in the past, hoping that it would put more men to work. They found that it only kept shop guys from getting laid off.

I have only ran across a few people that would take a layoff instead of getting moved to another job. 

To the OP: Personally I would move on to the next job for the contractor. As long as you keep moving on, on your own merit, and not by bad mouthing you partner, you can still be a good union man.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> What happens when you refuse transfers, do you go back to the hall and collect until another job comes in?
> 
> I can imagine some of the super large contractors will move men around to cover several jobs going at the same time.
> 
> Also guys that are willing to move around helping the contractor get it done so he can bid and win more work seems to be a good thing for the men and the Union.


Yes, I go back to the hall.

I have no problem with folks who transfer, I don't do it for my own reasons ( mostly having to do with being bored doing the same kinds of work over and over and my skill set shouldn't be locked in to one contractor ) but many of the shops here have a lots of good union guys they move around.

It is just not for me.

My focus is improving my skills and doing what I can to help the local, as the local has done a tremendous amount to help me.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Black Dog said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> This makes the union look bad and it kills the justification to pay guys twice as much as the private sector.


Thank you for pointing out that truth. Most nonunion contractors usually parade around claiming that "merit" is the only fair way to pay a workforce, and that their guys make just as much, if not more than union scale...



> 93% of the workingstiffs are not in any union and must work 52 weeks to earn a living.


 So, everyone else in the country should strive to achieve that new low standard? It's just not "fair" unless everyone is getting screwed equally? Sounds a bit like socialism...

52 weeks a year in order to make ends meet, so screw the 25-50% of construction workers who couldn't possibly survive their 1st winter.


> If a union guy works six months per year and collects the other six he will have the same grand total as the non union guy.


 But if the union guy worked the entire year, he'd make double the nonunion guy, and a DIFFERENT union guy would be out all year. SO, taking a voluntary layoff changes nothing in the grand scheme of things.


> It does not make the case for unions when so many take a free ride half the year just because they can.


 Sure it does, as long as the local is manning the jurisdiction. Keep in mind you cannot sit at home if there are unfilled calls. The local won't allow access to you supplementary fund if you're refusing a job, and you cannot claim unemployment if you refuse a job.


> The unemployment insurance cost the contractor way too much and it simply comes out of the workers pay.


 It doesn't cost the contractor any more if 5 journeymen are on unemployment for 6 months or 10 end up on unemployment for 3 months.


> unemployment insurance should pay for just enough time for someone who has been fired to find a new job and that's it.


 Unemployment insurance is not available to employees who have been fired. 



> Proof of looking for work should be weakly and phone numbers should be provided to prove that people are looking for work-


 How many investigators would you think the unemployment office would need to verify that? And why should a union member who is party to a collective bargaining agreement, where they're stipulated NOT to seek out their own employment because they belong to their own hiring hall, have to be forced to comply? 



> if not then no check.


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

There seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation being spread around. Call the local and ask about the benefits and how to use them, and situations where you can lose them. You don't just walk in and sign book 1 and then proceed collect unemployment the rest of your life.


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

The rules of the forum clearly state that if you are sensitive to these topics you should refrain from posting. Seriously, nobody here wants to argue about this anymore. You're not union, we get it.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

JW Splicer said:


> The rules of the forum clearly state that if you are sensitive to these topics you should refrain from posting. Seriously, nobody here wants to argue about this anymore. You're not union, we get it.


Eejack by far is always the most offensive. Saying things like we're bitter because "we can't have union". He's the mirror image of a union thug, and has no problem showing it. The last thread we had confrontation he threatened me and the mods deleted his post. Leave this guy alone. He's a hard worker and dislikes free loaders, which automatically makes him dislike unions.


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

I didn't say anything about him not being a hard worker, I'm sure he works hard and is genuinely a good person as well as electrician. Nobody like a freeloader, but to imply that all Union members are freeloaders is wrong. I just feel we are all beating a dead horse into a bloody pulp. That's all.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Eejack by far is always the most offensive.


Being offended is a choice you make.
Being put on an ignore list is a choice I made.


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

Did half of this thread disappear? or am I just posting stuff like a crazy jerk? I have a sinus infection my head is swimming and now I'm lost?!


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## MisterE (Jan 23, 2015)

The biggest problem I see on the job is lost time. Show up on time ready to work. If you do a good job, think ahead for the next step, show initiative and leave your phone in your pocket.....


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

JW Splicer said:


> Did half of this thread disappear? or am I just posting stuff like a crazy jerk? I have a sinus infection my head is swimming and now I'm lost?!


Thread got pruned. :001_huh:


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

Please take a moment to review our rules concerning respect in the community.
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f34/respect-others-community-68639/

If anyone is unable to discuss union topics in a respectful manner they will be blocked from this section. I am not saying y'all need to agree, simply that we have to remain a level of respect or remove ourselves from the discussion.

Thank you for understanding.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Cricket said:


> Please take a moment to review our rules concerning respect in the community.
> http://www.electriciantalk.com/f34/respect-others-community-68639/
> 
> If anyone is unable to discuss union topics in a respectful manner they will be blocked from this section. I am not saying y'all need to agree, simply that we have to remain a level of respect or remove ourselves from the discussion.
> ...



So why is Mac Clary still here? He's disrespectful.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> So why is Mac Clary still here? He's disrespectful.


I beg to differ. Him and I have our differences of opinion but I have always spoken to him with respect and always gotten the same in return. 

Pretty simple concept.

There are couple of guys here who are more disrespectful and a few of them like to call him and a few others out specifically.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Rollie73 said:


> I beg to differ. Him and I have our differences of opinion but I have always spoken to him with respect and always gotten the same in return.
> 
> Pretty simple concept.
> 
> There are couple of guys here who are more disrespectful and a few of them like to call him and a few others out specifically.


Thanks dude. I really appreciate that. You've personally seem them interrogate me when I never even posted. You seem like a good guy I can really get along with.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Thanks dude. I really appreciate that. You've personally seem them interrogate me when I never even posted. *You seem like a good guy I can really get along with*.


You don't know me too well..............I'm really an asshole:laughing::laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Rollie73 said:


> You don't know me too well..............I'm really an asshole:laughing::laughing:


Lol. Me too, don't feel bad


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Lol. Me too, don't feel bad


I don't feel bad about it........I'm quite happy with myself the way I am:thumbup:


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