# My latest most criminal hack that I made (did) today........



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

It occurred to me a bit late that I had zero 1/2" universal unistrut clamps on the truck this morning. I passed right by a Lowe's on the way here that sits 50 ft off the freeway on the way to the job. But.......... there were some 3/4 clamps. So I's tinking to myself's hey....... try putting 2 cables into a 3/4 clamp and see's if it woik's ............................
Can this get me thrown off the Mike Holt Forum?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

probably tarred, feathered, chased by angry peasants with torches and pitchforks, and run out of town on a rail


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Didn't they have any bailing wire at Lowes, moneybags?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

The Sharpie marking and the LB with the cover blocked by the strut is plenty hack enough.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks for posting on ElectricianTalk.com. However, working with electricity and electrical systems can be unsafe if not done by a professional licensed electrician.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I suppose I should get some tape for my label maker. I should find it first. It's in the van somewhere.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I really don’t have a problem with it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Take the strut down. It’s barely hanging on anyway. Cut a short piece just for the conduit and use normal straps for the cable. It gives you space for your LB. Faster than a trip to Lowe’s.

With the price of strut, if I can rob a piece off a job, it’s money in the bank. 😊


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

99cents said:


> Take the strut down. It’s barely hanging on anyway. Cut a short piece just for the conduit and use normal straps for the cable. It gives you space for your LB. Faster than a trip to Lowe’s.
> 
> With the price of strut, if I can rob a piece off a job, it’s money in the bank. 😊


I would be tempted to take that strut if it wasn't the yellow stuff.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Couldn't you have at least spaced your new clamps evenly, or are they not really holding as securely as you would have us believe?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

AHA, I knew I would hear about blocking the LB. It's not blocked, just looks that way in the picture. All other things mentioned are legit however...... 🙂


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

The bolts on the new strut straps are facing the wrong way.
Mauna Loa has got you thinking out of kilter, you got to get your mind right.


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## Superman (Mar 19, 2019)

Great post


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

99cents said:


> Take the strut down. It’s barely hanging on anyway. Cut a short piece just for the conduit and use normal straps for the cable. It gives you space for your LB. Faster than a trip to Lowe’s.
> 
> With the price of strut, if I can rob a piece off a job, it’s money in the bank. 😊


And to think it was just 2 days ago and I was a good electrician..............


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> And to think it was just 2 days ago and I was a good electrician..............


Your bad days probably equal my good days, mac. 😊


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

99cents said:


> Your bad days probably equal my good days, mac. 😊


I wouldn't be so sure about that.........


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

Who is Mike Holt?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Wardenclyffe said:


> Who is Mike Holt?


An electrical god. At least to to those in the US.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Almost Retired said:


> probably tarred, feathered, chased by angry peasants with torches and pitchforks, and run out of town on a rail


Yes, I agree but not for the strut, rather for installing a single phase panel on a 3 phase system. In my opinion, one of the worst possible hack things that can be done.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

micromind said:


> Yes, I agree but not for the strut, rather for installing a single phase panel on a 3 phase system. In my opinion, one of the worst possible hack things that can be done.


Lots of 120/208 1ph systems around. Now, in a school? Maybe.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

joe-nwt said:


> Lots of 120/208 1ph systems around. Now, in a school? Maybe.


why wouldnt you want all 3 phases to get the full advantage it provides?
cost of the 3 phase panel ?


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

No panel designation? I guess it is the only panel in the school. I like the sharpie lines that enabled you to drill the MC holes straight.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Almost Retired said:


> why wouldnt you want all 3 phases to get the full advantage it provides?
> cost of the 3 phase panel ?


For example: my shop is 3ph; it was like that when I bought it. I have no 3ph loads. Because a 3ph service is considered commercial/industrial I pay a demand charge every month. If I had a 1ph service, no demand charge. It would be off the same secondary as the 3ph service.

One would assume a school in HI to be on 3ph, but maybe not. But it's also not hard to fathom that that panel might be far away from any 3ph loads, and only feeding classroom lighting and receptacles, as indicated with the marker. 

Personally, I have no problem with a 1ph panel on a 3ph system in that type of application.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I wouldn't be surprised if he or whoever put in a single phase panel and not a 3 phase panel because you can get single phase panels, while 3 phase are hard to find. 

If you were really hack, Mac, you would have used zip ties through the holes in the back of the strut to hold the MC on. I've been known to do it above ceilings, as the zip ties are listed for cable support...


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

micromind said:


> Yes, I agree but not for the strut, rather for installing a single phase panel on a 3 phase system. In my opinion, one of the worst possible hack things that can be done.


Well, I am glad you are bringing this up cause that is the exact same place I mentioned a few weeks ago when removing the former 3 phase panel that was in that exact spot. Existing LB, existing unistrut. New converted single phase electrical panel , this time with a neutral because I relocated where the feed for the panel came from by about 6-8 feet to another overcurrent device connected to the secondary side of a 75 kva Delta to WYE xfmr so I could now have a proper neutral and re-use the former "C" phase conductor with some white electrical tape . No need to run a new feeder 100 ft. Convert the old one. Fit the customer's budget. And the former bootleg "neutral" run to the green house outside by terminating it's neutral wire onto the grounding busbar in the former 3 phase panel done by others before me is now corrected, as are my new 120 and 208 volt circuits. I'm a hero, just like the Tik Tok dancing nurses cause I healed a very dangerous active greenhouse system manned by a half dozen ag workers that had current flow on all the metal wiring device boxes and equipment - close to 6 amps when I measured it. Nobody in management will fess up and give me the name of the company that put the greenhouse wiring system into a Delta panel and cheated the neutral for it onto a grounding busbar. But I was told that the son of the director of the Non Profit who is now my customer was the electrician directly involved. Whoever he may be. Compared to that , methinks two mc's in a three quarter strut clamp is sheer genius . Joe-nwt , it's a load center can, the pre punched ko's are offset.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

This place used to be a yard for Dole Pineapple. 3 phase equipment all gone now. Used to have a whole bunch. The building now contains a sizable labratory for a non profit agriculture association funded by Hawaii State Govt. They have converted a third of the space to be a new classroom for public school children to visit and work on gardening projects. It is a large metal building single story. Before I came along , it was a large metal building single story with about 6 amps of bootleg current on the building metal , not any longer. Next time I visit, maybe I might slap a few more bolts onto the unistrut that I didn't install just so we can all sleep properly.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm so disgusted by the picture I'm going to self wallow and eat a Can of hash.


Oh ....wait........ it looks fine. Not a listed item anyways. Sharpie is unforgivable though.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I'm so disgusted by the picture I'm going to self wallow and eat a Can of hash.
> 
> 
> Oh ....wait........ it looks fine. Not a listed item anyways. Sharpie is unforgivable though.


Baloney !


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> For example: my shop is 3ph; it was like that when I bought it. I have no 3ph loads. Because a 3ph service is considered commercial/industrial I pay a demand charge every month. If I had a 1ph service, no demand charge. It would be off the same secondary as the 3ph service.
> 
> One would assume a school in HI to be on 3ph, but maybe not. But it's also not hard to fathom that that panel might be far away from any 3ph loads, and only feeding classroom lighting and receptacles, as indicated with the marker.
> 
> Personally, I have no problem with a 1ph panel on a 3ph system in that type of application.


That's interesting, I have a 120/208 3Ø 4 wire Y at my house. No demand, just regular rates. 

As far as I know, the PUCO around doesn't charge for demand until a service is more than 200 amps at either 277/480 or 120/208. I don't know about single phase but I believe the largest they'll hook up is 600 amps.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

micromind said:


> That's interesting, I have a 120/208 3Ø 4 wire Y at my house. No demand, just regular rates.
> 
> As far as I know, the PUCO around doesn't charge for demand until a service is more than 200 amps at either 277/480 or 120/208. I don't know about single phase but I believe the largest they'll hook up is 600 amps.


If you just had to have 3 phase and all you had was the cut corners 120-208 single phase, you could make your own with an open Star open Delta connection with a couple of your own xformers we all seem to have laying around.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> This place used to be a yard for Dole Pineapple. 3 phase equipment all gone now. Used to have a whole bunch. The building now contains a sizable labratory for a non profit agriculture association funded by Hawaii State Govt. They have converted a third of the space to be a new classroom for public school children to visit and work on gardening projects. It is a large metal building single story. Before I came along , it was a large metal building single story with about 6 amps of bootleg current on the building metal , not any longer. * Next time I visit, maybe I might slap a few more bolts onto the unistrut that I didn't install just so we can all sleep properly.*


Then are you going to take your shot and 14 boosters to catch up?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

micromind said:


> That's interesting, I have a 120/208 3Ø 4 wire Y at my house. No demand, just regular rates.
> 
> As far as I know, the PUCO around doesn't charge for demand until a service is more than 200 amps at either 277/480 or 120/208. I don't know about single phase but I believe the largest they'll hook up is 600 amps.


Shop is under the business name. At that point a demand charge is synonymous with "money grab".


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

A Little Short said:


> Then are you going to take your shot and 14 boosters to catch up?


No. I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them macmikeman I am.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

joe-nwt said:


> An electrical god. At least to to those in the US.


Some guy that really likes himself, his god, and barefoot water skiing.


looks expensive, zip ties?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

macmikeman said:


> Baloney !


i hate that stuff !!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> It occurred to me a bit late that I had zero 1/2" universal unistrut clamps on the truck this morning. I passed right by a Lowe's on the way here that sits 50 ft off the freeway on the way to the job. But.......... there were some 3/4 clamps. So I's tinking to myself's hey....... try putting 2 cables into a 3/4 clamp and see's if it woik's ............................
> Can this get me thrown off the Mike Holt Forum?
> 
> View attachment 171423


I see that you are left-handed.... as for the straps, how do you sleep at night. lol


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## Brianrayl (Oct 4, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> It occurred to me a bit late that I had zero 1/2" universal unistrut clamps on the truck this morning. I passed right by a Lowe's on the way here that sits 50 ft off the freeway on the way to the job. But.......... there were some 3/4 clamps. So I's tinking to myself's hey....... try putting 2 cables into a 3/4 clamp and see's if it woik's ............................
> Can this get me thrown off the Mike Holt Forum?
> 
> View attachment 171423


Tie Wraps are cheaper.


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## seelite (Aug 24, 2009)

Way too many folks with chin hanging down to belt, so a little smile, a laugh goes a long way ! But I sense that (based upon the above replies) that we have a lot of TDE's in the trade. That's what a journey(wo)man once called me. For those unfamiliar with the abbreviation, TDE stands for "Testicle Demolition Expert". Gotta say though, that girl knew her stuff. Keep Bustin'.


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

splatz said:


> Didn't they have any bailing wire at Lowes, moneybags?


bailing BALING

Sorry, I couldn't stand it, (former Bale Press expert here)

I once had a illustration on the wall explaining the difference in BALE Press (cotton bales), BAIL Press (compacting gallon can wire handles), and BAAL Press (crushing false gods).


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

GladMech said:


> bailing BALING
> 
> Sorry, I couldn't stand it, (former Bale Press expert here)


Stove wire at Lowe’s
Baling wire at Tractor Supply.


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

Oh, I forgot the most egregious misspelling.
BELL Press (recycling bells and other brass scrap).


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

micromind said:


> Yes, I agree but not for the strut, rather for installing a single phase panel on a 3 phase system. In my opinion, one of the worst possible hack things that can be done.


Many of the first emergency lighting power supplies were 120 wet cell batteries, producing 2 volts each, connected in series, and grounded between cell 60 & 61. That provided 120 volt positive and ground and 120 volt negative to ground direct current. This can be fed to single phase 3 pole 4 wire emergency lighting panels that supply 120 volt lights that can operate on either AC or DC Power. Initially all of the lights supplied were tungsten filament incandescent bulbs. The replacements being used in legacy 120/240 DC emergency lighting systems are LED lights with a DC voltage reducing converters. 

That is not the only reason to install a single phase panel derived from a 3 phase system. It is very commonly done in apartment buildings were the feeds to individual apartments are separately metered because 3 phase metering is much more expensive and it would increase the cost of each apartments individual metered feeder with no actual gain in utility. Evan single phase through the wall heat pumps are much less expensive to purchase in single phase versions. 

You can argue that decreased efficiency of operations should be a higher concern but in the capitalist economic system the owner will minimize their cost and not the overall cost of the operation which is being shed off onto the tenants. 3Ø heat pumps are not available in the capacities used for single rooms. The use of single room heat pumps avoids the cost of ducting for a central heat pump to serve the entire dwelling unit. Even a heat pump sized for the entire apartment would be hard to source in 3Ø. The most common tenant owned appliance, a clothes dryer, is not available in 3 phase for apartment style units which are commonly part of over and under stacked washer dryer sets.

That's only a couple of examples. I'm sure that there are more. 

Tom Horne


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

joe-nwt said:


> Shop is under the business name. At that point a demand charge is synonymous with "money grab".


Oh Say it aint so. Would that be anything like the meter reading charge that most utilities still apply to single properties with 2 separate services even though they now read the meter using electronic equipment mounted in a pickup truck that merely drives by your property. "We have to pay the computer entry worker 4 seconds of additional wages to key in the code for same customer meter why can't you communists see that that additional time must be paid for at a several thousand percent mark up." [Wait I can't call them communist. That no longer has the fear inducing compliance value that it once had. Hah their socialist! Dam. Why aren't they shoveling money at us to hold back the socialist menace like they did when we were holding back the communist menace? When did they learn to question the elite consensus that has always governed this country.] 

Tom Horne


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