# Klein tools was at my local hall!.



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

All you got was a free hat?


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## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

mikeh32 said:


> So, I guess they really know about the problem. They have been holding focus groups at my hall. even testing new screwdrivers, new metals, new handles. I got a hat this week from them. But i guess they are going to be making low voltage tools soon too, and I will be getting to test them out! I also heard they will be making meters too!
> 
> 3 of the Kleins where actually here, along with 10-15 others. when i say kleins, I mean like the klein family.


Take some pictures of the new products and post them.
Come on!:thumbup:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

I saw the meters at Home Depot today, looked ok?

Tom


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

mikeh32 said:


> I got a hat this week from them. But i guess they are going to be making low voltage tools soon too, and I will be getting to test them out! I also heard they will be making meters too!


They've been making and selling low voltage stuff for a while now, as well as the meters. IMO the meters look cheesy.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

gilbequick said:


> They've been making and selling low voltage stuff for a while now, as well as the meters. IMO the meters look cheesy.


no, i mean punch downs and **** like that. 

i was not part of it sadly. Im only an apprentice. it was for journeyman only. 

but our hall gets stuff from ideal too. guess thats a perk of being in chicago, or around it


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

william1978 said:


> All you got was a free hat?


 It'll fall apart in a month.:whistling2:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> no, i mean punch downs and **** like that.
> 
> i was not part of it sadly. Im only an apprentice. it was for journeyman only.
> 
> but our hall gets stuff from ideal too. guess thats a perk of being in chicago, or around it


They have had punchdown tools and data comm tools at graybar since sometime last year. Home Crapo has a full line of klein data comm tools been there for over a year. They are not worth the money I bought the punchdown when it first came out Made In Taiwan, it broke with in a month. Buy Ideal for data comm all there data comm tools are solid and Made In the USA. OR buy Fluke/Harris there data comm tools are also very solid and well worth the money also made in the USA. Im not sure about Paladin anymore, Greenlee owns them and a lot of there stuff is made in Taiwan now


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

gilbequick said:


> They've been making and selling low voltage stuff for a while now, as well as the meters. IMO the meters look cheesy.


From what I hear the meters arn't worth a crap. Klein has Extech make the meters for them is what a klein rep was saying at graybar the other day. He was there to see how the meters performed in the field and out of the 22 graybar had sold only 5 are still out in the field all the others were returned for either fluke or ideal meters. That is about all I know because by that time I had received the parts I needed and I was walking out the door


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

they know they all suck, hence these focus groups. I also got my screwdrivers all replaced. 

I will update this when i find out more


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Almost all their tools suck. I only buy their bags now.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

all of mine where bought when loews clearanced them out at like 90% off. 

and all the other ones i have, are all older then me(i am 25)


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> all of mine where bought when loews clearanced them out at like 90% off.
> 
> and all the other ones i have, are all older then me(i am 25)


Same here pretty much.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

mikeh32 said:


> they know they all suck, hence these focus groups. I also got my screwdrivers all replaced.
> 
> I will update this when i find out more


Maybe all the extra competition is forcing them to wise up.

We like solid tools, and most are willing to pay for them.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

The meters were cheap price wise, I think the most expensive was like 70-80 bucks. They had 3 to choose from.

I use mainly their screwdrivers and linesmans. Have Ideal and some Greenlee punchdown stuff, has held up pretty well. I've had good luck with my Greenlee DM 800 Meter(150 bucks+-), I bought it 5 years ago and besides battery changes works well for me. Never sees more than 480 though.

Tom


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

nothing beats a FLUKE in reputation, but I checked out some new FLUKES and they're made in China now. They used to have a factory here in town for their high-end gadgets, not sure if its here anymore... I guess if American made is no longer an option, then Taiwan is okay, anything to not support mainland China. I could go for Hong Kong too, but they label their products as China now, no way to differentiate.

I was in Hong Kong before the 96 change over, and it was Bentley's, Benzs, and BMW's bumper to bumper on a six lane freeway through Wanchai. Went four times after that, the place has definitely changed for the poorer.

What made HK special, was the FREE-TRADE ZONE, the same thing that made Dubai what it is today.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> nothing beats a FLUKE in reputation, but I checked out some new FLUKES and they're made in China now. They used to have a factory here in town for their high-end gadgets, not sure if its here anymore... I guess if American made is no longer an option, then Taiwan is okay, anything to not support mainland China. I could go for Hong Kong too, but they label their products as China now, no way to differentiate.


Even the made overseas flukes like the 110 series still kick ass IMO. The Klein meters are a mix of my least favorite brands Extech and UEI I think.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

i heard that was one of the big focuses as well. Price and would people pay a bit more for a higher quality. They had 2 that where same, but different tips. 

and when it comes to fluke... I dont care where its made. fluke is the best at what they do, and they set the standard


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> i heard that was one of the big focuses as well. Price and would people pay a bit more for a higher quality. They had 2 that where same, but different tips.
> 
> and when it comes to fluke... I dont care where its made. fluke is the best at what they do, and they set the standard


I have had one for a very long time. It seems to be very good...or maybe it's just a FLUKE.:thumbsup:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> they know they all suck, hence these focus groups. I also got my screwdrivers all replaced.
> 
> I will update this when i find out more


look on the bright side at least they replaced your tools:thumbup:thats a good day in my book:thumbsup:


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

bduerler said:


> i know what your thinking. did i fire 5 rounds or 6? i dont know either, but now you have to ask yourself one question. do you feel lucky? well do you? punk.


 
I...I... I gots to know.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

LARMGUY said:


> I...I... I gots to know.


Dirty Harry aka Clint Eastwood:thumbsup:

I couldn't type the entire quote I ran out of lines


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Tell them their nut drivers are cheap and I broke a 9/16 one with only my hand. I'm going to migrate from Klien if possible or cost effective.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Tell them their nut drivers are cheap and I broke a 9/16 one with only my hand. I'm going to migrate from Klien if possible or cost effective.


I'm ditching Klein and going to Chanellock for all my pliers, Ideal for strippers, and Wera for screw and nut drivers. I'm only going to use Klein for bags and pouches.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

I am going to pass on this forum to them for sure. maybe make a thread about kleins tools for them to see. 

note this would go right to the klein sons.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> I am going to pass on this forum to them for sure. maybe make a thread about kleins tools for them to see.
> 
> note this would go right to the klein sons.


Won't do them much good. We will have all switched tool brands by the time they change anything. :laughing:


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

yeah, i know. its worth a shot though, since they hand them out to us.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

thats one nice part about having greenleee, klein, and ideal all local to us. 

we get all sorts of cool ****


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## KleinToolsCC (Dec 2, 2009)

bduerler said:


> From what I hear the meters arn't worth a crap. Klein has Extech make the meters for them is what a klein rep was saying at graybar the other day. He was there to see how the meters performed in the field and out of the 22 graybar had sold only 5 are still out in the field all the others were returned for either fluke or ideal meters. That is about all I know because by that time I had received the parts I needed and I was walking out the door


 
Klein Tools internal data doesn't match the quote above. Klein Tools is selling meters in several Graybar branches and they have not returned a single Professional Grade meter that would cross to a Fluke meter. The person quoted above also said 17 units were returned, this number exceeds our total returns for all meters across all of the Graybar branches. One last fact: Extech does not make any of the Klein Tools meters. 

In fact, meter returns have been very small and the field feedback has been very positive on the product. These are high quality meters designed for electricians and available at affordable prices.

If anyone hears any statements like those above, please let us know. We would really like to find the person and work with them to find out more. 

Klein Tools Corporate Communications

PS - Please don't take bduerler as a bad guy. He just reported what he heard in the field. He's been trading emails with us to find the person and has been very helpful.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

KleinToolsCC said:


> One last fact: Extech does not make any of the Klein Tools meters.


So then are they all OEMed by Uei?


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

KleinToolsCC said:


> Klein Tools internal data doesn't match the quote above. Klein Tools is selling meters in several Graybar branches and they have not returned a single Professional Grade meter that would cross to a Fluke meter. The person quoted above also said 17 units were returned, this number exceeds our total returns for all meters across all of the Graybar branches. One last fact: Extech does not make any of the Klein Tools meters.
> 
> In fact, meter returns have been very small and the field feedback has been very positive on the product. These are high quality meters designed for electricians and available at affordable prices.
> 
> ...


So what do you have to say for your hand tools?
I have twisted off handles on your nutdrivers. 
Your screwdriver tips do not last. 
I have pulled the handles off of brand new Jouneymans series pliers, and so has everyone that I know that's had a pair.
At most suppliers your warranty has become "iffy" at best.

I want to like Klein Tools, I really do, but when your offerings are not comparable in quality and price to the German tool companies I feel like I have no choice but to go with the better product.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Sounds like KleinToolsCC is going to hunt you down and send the Klein police to your house if you say something bad about them.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Sounds like KleinToolsCC is going to hunt you down and send the Klein police to your house if you say something bad about them.


I have solutions to that...


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Sounds like KleinToolsCC is going to hunt you down and send the Klein police to your house if you say something bad about them.


 I'm not too scared, their handcuffs would break.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> I'm not too scared, their handcuffs would break.


:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

KleinToolsCC said:


> Klein Tools internal data doesn't match the quote above. Klein Tools is selling meters in several Graybar branches and they have not returned a single Professional Grade meter that would cross to a Fluke meter. The person quoted above also said 17 units were returned, this number exceeds our total returns for all meters across all of the Graybar branches. One last fact: Extech does not make any of the Klein Tools meters.
> 
> In fact, meter returns have been very small and the field feedback has been very positive on the product. These are high quality meters designed for electricians and available at affordable prices.
> 
> ...


Just trying to do the right thing :thumbup: My apologies for the wrong information hope I didn't mislead anyone


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

bduerler said:


> Just trying to do the right thing :thumbup: My apologies for the wrong information hope I didn't mislead anyone


What did ya expect, he's an Ideal fanboy!

My only advice to Klein, seriously look at the competition. Some of your core customers (professional tradesmen), are going out of there way to pay _more_ for some of their tools.

Most would not hesitate to buy American if they could find the same quality of product.

I currently picked up the Klein "Journeyman" screwdriver set. It's definitely a step in the right direction, already surpassing the wear and tear of the home depot stock I own. But I'm still buying a Wera chiseldriver to withstand real abuse.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> My only advice to Klein...


Here I will add mine. Make tools that suck less, way less.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

My advice would be to quit marketing all this rebranded stuff and start making a screwdriver that doesn't suck. When you can do that again the customers will come back. Then you can push other companies stuff with your name on it again. I'd say start with the phillips screwdriver and figure out how to make one that doesn't round off in an afternoon.

EDIT
All you would really have to do is look up how you used to make them, I have one from 20 years ago that still works fine.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

And my big gripe lately with Klein is when you put the pockets in your pouches make the leather go all the way down, this goes for the nylon ones too. A pocket isn't a pocket if it is open at the bottom.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> What did ya expect, he's an Ideal fanboy!


Ouch Ideal Fanboy that stings a little however it is also very true:thumbsup: i love me some Ideal Industries:laughing: So Frasbee was that a complement to me or a shot at Klein. I promise I am not trying to start a fight here amigo:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

bduerler said:


> Ouch Ideal Fanboy that stings a little however it is also very true:thumbsup: i love me some Ideal Industries:laughing: So Frasbee was that a complement to me or a shot at Klein. I promise I am not trying to start a fight here amigo:thumbsup:


Make some crack about his lack of wirenut usage skills and it will be even...


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Make some crack about his lack of wirenut usage skills and it will be even...


:laughing: But I am in a good mood today. I had a good Monday so far and I just don't want to start anything today. It is so not like me but hey Mr. Jim Beam always puts me in a good mood


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Maybe all the extra competition is forcing them to wise up.
> 
> We like solid tools, and most are willing to pay for them.


That's the thing. When I can buy a competing brand tool for the same money or less and have it last longer and be assured the *warranty will be honored with a minimum of fuss*, I'm dealing with them. Actually with many of the brands I buy I have no idea how they'll behave because I've yet to have a problem, I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt. They could easily get put on the no-buy list if I ever had the kind of encounter I did trying to get a defective Klein tool replaced.

Around 10 years ago, I and a close to a dozen guys I know of had extremely frustrating experiences getting warranties honored on defective Klein tools. Most of us had handles on our new linesmen snap anywhere from the first day to mine lasting nearly 4 months. Most of us did get 'results', but for all the time and effort we had to expend, it would have been cheaper to buy a few new pairs. It was like pulling teeth and the treatment was horrendous. 

Its too bad really. I've got a lot of Klein tools that I'm happy with that I bought before that fiasco. Most of them have held up admirably. My reason for avoiding Klein like the plague is that what happens if I wind up with a defective tool again? I have absolutely no desire to go through the ordeal I did last time. I was treated like a criminal trying to screw the company and I got the distinct feeling it was an intentional tactic on the companies part and the whole thing left me feeling pretty sour towards the company. 

It doesn't help either to keep hearing from the guys who still do buy Klein always complaining that the tools just aren't quite what they used to be.


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## KleinToolsCC (Dec 2, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> So what do you have to say for your hand tools?
> I have twisted off handles on your nutdrivers.
> Your screwdriver tips do not last.
> I have pulled the handles off of brand new Jouneymans series pliers, and so has everyone that I know that's had a pair.
> ...


 
OK -thanks for the feedback and let me see how I can answer each one. We've been listening to the message boards and have addressed some of the issues you bring up.
1) Nutdrivers - not sure why yours failed. Our return rates are very low and we've tested samples here and they perform well. If we could get it back, we can analyze why it failed. 
2) Screwdriver tips - we heard the message board complaints and even though our screwdrivers exceeded all ANSI specifications, we changed the heat treating process on our screwdrivers last year. This new heat treat makes the tips much harder and the tips lasts much longer. 
3) Journeyman pliers - we also heard the complaints on the message boards. In April, we started using a new permanent adhesive that prevents the Journeyman grips from coming off. 
4) Warranty - it is hard for us to answer for every counter person at every distributor. Some are very accommodating, others are not. So, if you have a warranty return and the local distributor is unwilling to process it, please call 1-800-553-4676 and we will process your return directly.

I hope that this helps. We really do listen to the message boards and appreciate the feedback.

Klein Tools Corporate Communications


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

bduerler said:


> Ouch Ideal Fanboy that stings a little however it is also very true:thumbsup: i love me some Ideal Industries:laughing: So Frasbee was that a complement to me or a shot at Klein. I promise I am not trying to start a fight here amigo:thumbsup:


Come on now, you know its true!

I'd be the first to tell you I'm a Bosch whore.


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## bdivell (Jun 22, 2010)

I also can't stand the new ribbed grip handles that say Klein on them, they dont feel or last as long as the old generation handles , the only screwdrivers I use by Klein are the few old generation screwdrivers I have left, all the others are german Felo, Whia, Wera


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Come on now, you know its true!
> 
> I'd be the first to tell you I'm a Bosch whore.


Oh your not a whore:laughing: I know I am a sucker for Ideal:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

bduerler said:


> Oh your not a whore:laughing: I know I am a sucker for Ideal:laughing:


Whoa, you suck Ideal what?


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Whoa, you suck Ideal what?


:laughing: S hit i knew someone would take that out of context but then again I set myself up


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

bduerler said:


> :laughing: S hit i knew someone would take that out of context but then again I set myself up


:laughing::laughing::laughing: The English language, good for communicating and insulting...


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing: The English language, good for communicating and insulting...


:laughing:Yes sir sure is


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

KleinToolsCC said:


> 2) Screwdriver tips - we heard the message board complaints and even though our screwdrivers exceeded all ANSI specifications, we changed the heat treating process on our screwdrivers last year. This new heat treat makes the tips much harder and the tips lasts much longer.


Nice tiptoe. Why not make them the same way the old one's were made? Whatever that process was in years gone by- worked! Throw ANSI out the window. Obviously, even exceeding the ANSI spec, by whatever the current margin, isn't good enough for your market.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Nice tiptoe. Why not make them the same way the old one's were made? Whatever that process was- worked! Throw ANSI out the window. Obviously, even exceeding the ANSI spec isn't good enough for your market.


I snapped a flat blade screwing a screw into (no joke here) a PVC jbox the other day. Cheap POS metal in my opinion.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Nice tiptoe. Why not make them the same way the old one's were made? Whatever that process was in years gone by- worked! Throw ANSI out the window. Obviously, even exceeding the ANSI spec, by whatever the current margin, isn't good enough for your market.


I do miss the handles without the raised letters on them


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

bduerler said:


> I do miss the handles without the raised letters on them


Those had the better blades too.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Those had the better blades too.


That they did


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## abo (Jan 29, 2010)

Yes, I definitely dislike those new handles. Makes them look sort of cheap.


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## KleinToolsCC (Dec 2, 2009)

*New Screwdrivers*



MDShunk said:


> Nice tiptoe. Why not make them the same way the old one's were made? Whatever that process was in years gone by- worked! Throw ANSI out the window. Obviously, even exceeding the ANSI spec, by whatever the current margin, isn't good enough for your market.


 
No tiptoe intended, the new process is better and results in the strongest screwdrivers we've ever made. The screwdrivers we ship today are much better than the "old" ones by a wide margin.

Klein Tools Corporate Communications


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

KleinToolsCC said:


> No tiptoe intended, the new process is better and results in the strongest screwdrivers we've ever made. The screwdrivers we ship today are much better than the "old" ones by a wide margin.


No way in hell. :no:


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

make the tools the way m klein and sons did. i had an m klein nutdriver and compared it too a new klein tools nutdriver. the m klein was built to survive a nuclear holocaust. this is why i use ideal screwdrivers now


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

KleinToolsCC said:


> OK -thanks for the feedback and let me see how I can answer each one. We've been listening to the message boards and have addressed some of the issues you bring up.
> 1) Nutdrivers - not sure why yours failed. Our return rates are very low and we've tested samples here and they perform well. If we could get it back, we can analyze why it failed.
> 2) Screwdriver tips - we heard the message board complaints and even though our screwdrivers exceeded all ANSI specifications, we changed the heat treating process on our screwdrivers last year. This new heat treat makes the tips much harder and the tips lasts much longer.
> 3) Journeyman pliers - we also heard the complaints on the message boards. In April, we started using a new permanent adhesive that prevents the Journeyman grips from coming off.
> ...


 Ok so you're saying your tools are now better than they were a year or two ago. Maybe they are, I wouldn't know. It's been longer than that since I've bought a Klein tool other than an 11n1.

Your answers bring more questions to mind.

Klein has been around for a long time, in that time you have amassed a lot of loyal customers. Customers that have relied on your tools to perform every day so that we can feed our families.
When you allowed your quality to drop to the level of bargain bin tools a lot of guys took that personally.
Why did you let your quality standards drop so low?

As the lack of Klein quality has steered me away I have found the German manufacturers and discovered that their tools have never failed to perform at a reasonable price. 
Can Klein compare to this?


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## JacksonburgFarmer (Jul 5, 2008)

For the comment about not being allowed to go to the group meeting with fluke because "Journeyman only"....was that a Klein rule, or ideal of the hall??? 

If I was in that hall, and couldnt go because I was a apprentice, well....

The unions are sure full of themselves......


But I understand, cause welll you know, apprentices dont have tools or nothin themselves......bunch of jackrabbbits


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