# Stop Timer Before Time Off



## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

I think someone hacked in a Dayton 6A859 Off-Timer to control input of a motor contactor. 120V is continuous at pin 3 of the timer even when I hit the stop button. The wire leaving the start / stop button junction is doing what it's supposed to do. The result is that if you press the on button, the motor comes on and runs until the timer turns it off. If you press the stop button before time-out, the motor stays on.

So if I rewire so that the stop button kills power pin 3, will this timer still perform time off and then cut power when the stop button is pressed before time out?

Maybe if cheap enough, I'll try it at home.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I believe it's pin 2 you want to kill. That should reset the timer.
Pin 3 is just the neutral and I wouldn't break it.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Is the control circuit for the motor starter a 2 wire circuit or a 3 wire circuit?


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Is the control circuit for the motor starter a 2 wire circuit or a 3 wire circuit?



3-Wire. 
Also, the pin 2, pin 3 mixup was my typo


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

If it is a 3 wire circuit, then series the timer contact with the starter hold-in contact.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

*Think I found the problem*

I think I found the problem.
This was originally a 3-Wire Start Stop Station.
So there are 3 wires run through conduit to the Start Stop buttons. 
I think 4 wires are needed for the timer if the Stop button is to remain functional. You don't have to provide 120V to pin 6 or 7 to start this timer. You only have to short them together.
2 wires from either side of the N.O. start button to pins 6 & 7 of timer.
2 wires to either side of the N.C. stop button.
1 wire from 120V source to pin 1 of stop button
1 wire from pin 2 of stop button to pin 2 of timer.

If there is a way I can get this to work without running another wire, please draw a picture.

Thanks


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Seems like your normal stop button needs to input to timer so you get a delayed off (I assume that is what you need since it's the function of that relay).

Your E-Stop button needs to be in series with the coil of the motor starter so that if it's open that no other voltage source can get to the MS coil. In other words, run the #1 terminal wire from the delay-off timer through the E-Stop contacts before it goes to the MS coil.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Reading the Dayton info and your post, I have questions.

How is this motor working? Does someone hit a momentary switch and this motor runs for a certain amount of time before it shuts down or does someone leave a switch on for the whole time they need the motor then turn it off and the timer keeps it running until the countdown is over?


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Seems like your normal stop button needs to input to timer so you get a delayed off (I assume that is what you need since it's the function of that relay).
> 
> Your E-Stop button needs to be in series with the coil of the motor starter so that if it's open that no other voltage source can get to the MS coil. In other words, run the #1 terminal wire from the delay-off timer through the E-Stop contacts before it goes to the MS coil.


Good point. Want to E-Stop the contactor. Not the timer.
Still need that 4th wire though


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

What is the motor load ? just curious


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

swimmer said:


> Not the timer.
> Still need that 4th wire though


I believe you will, but you still didn't answer my question about how this setup is being used.


Edit: The reason I ask is it appears you went from a Start/Stop station to a Start only, delay off. It could be a Start/Stop with a delay off. Just trying to get a handle on what's going on.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

dronai said:


> What is the motor load ? just curious


3-phase pressure washer used by employees to clean an automated car wash


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Reading the Dayton info and your post, I have questions.
> 
> How is this motor working? Does someone hit a momentary switch and this motor runs for a certain amount of time before it shuts down or does someone leave a switch on for the whole time they need the motor then turn it off and the timer keeps it running until the countdown is over?



At this time it works as follows:
Someone hits a momentary green on button and the motor runs for 5 minutes. The off button does not turn it off. You have to wait until it times out.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Edit: The reason I ask is it appears you went from a Start/Stop station to a Start only, delay off. It could be a Start/Stop with a delay off. Just trying to get a handle on what's going on.


I'm 99% sure the original configuration was Start / Stop. Someone then added the timer. It is hanging from wires in the control cabinet hence "hacked" status. Now it works as Start only, delay off.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

swimmer said:


> I'm 99% sure the original configuration was Start / Stop. Someone then added the timer. It is hanging from wires in the control cabinet hence "hacked" status. Now it works as Start only, delay off.


So what are you doing, adding an E-Stop or did you discover something is not working correctly?


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> So what are you doing, adding an E-Stop or did you discover something is not working correctly?


Start / Stop was in the wash area of the car wash. Water was leaking into it and zapping employees when they touched the wall near the buttons. I relocated this assembly to the other side of the wall in the equipment room. I discovered the bogus timer setup when checking circuit operation.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

swimmer said:


> If there is a way I can get this to work without running another wire, please draw a picture.
> 
> Thanks


Found the alternative to running the 4th wire.
Just buy one of these off delay relays that connects in the traditional configuration.


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