# log home wiring



## Jcode (Mar 24, 2011)

You will get a more detailed answer than I can give but I can get a start.

Locally (way up north here), log homes are common enough. My step will tell work with the builder on where electrical outlets are in the logs. In short, they will set a log, drill down, set a log, drill down, etc etc and keep doing this up to plugs and switches and up to the top for cieling lights. We just pray they keep doing this and cleaning out as they go. When they don't its a PAIN.

If he doesn't trust them he will stay there all day and babysit them to just make sure its getting done.

Usually the holes are just in the logs where we have to fish wires out. From there, we mark out boxes, drill with these http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/DeWALT-DW1630-rw-78447-136619.jpg, only as deep as the box. Then chisel it out square once we have wire in area. Sometimes taking a hacksaw to square out 2, 3, and 4 gants. Very careful of the wire.

It takes a lot of time to do stick homes as you already are imagining. As far as estimating labor, that part of the buisness I don't do so can't help there. But hopefully I gave an idea of how to start? :jester:


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Jcode said:


> You will get a more detailed answer than I can give but I can get a start.
> 
> Locally (way up north here), log homes are common enough. My step will tell work with the builder on where electrical outlets are in the logs. In short, they will set a log, drill down, set a log, drill down, etc etc and keep doing this up to plugs and switches and up to the top for cieling lights. We just pray they keep doing this and cleaning out as they go. When they don't its a PAIN.
> 
> ...


Thanks. From what you described, just making the pathway and box cutout is going to take an hour per outlet.
I can already hear the whining when I price this lol


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## Jcode (Mar 24, 2011)

It's can be a pain. I don't know if theres any other way, but every log home they set a log, and drill through it then set the next one. You have to watch them or hope they line up each one. Also cleaning holes out as they go so they don't get loaded with wood chips as they get up a few logs. If they do it good (good enough), its relatively easy to get wire up and where you need. It's been a few years actually since I've done one so my memory is getting foggy on how they go. 

All the interior walls are relatively easy, like any other new home. The cielings inside are usually nothing out of the ordinary so can wire like normal.

There's quite a few different ways to do the interior so make sure you are aware of what they are doing for second floor decking. Some they lay like normal, some they have half logs stretched across leaving us no where to pull wire. Then we have to gut a channel in the half log in the second floor to get lights into 1st floor rooms, etc etc etc.

I hope i don't sound confusing lol.



Per outlet, takes me about 20-30 minutes to cut in and get it detailed right. Longer if we have to also compensate for the plate so it sits flat. Some HO make us do it some dont mind. All outlets have to horizontal. 4 gangs take an hour to fine tune to getting to sit flat and getting room cut out behind the boxes for all the wire to go to their respective sides of the 4 gang. All this without finding a wire with a bit.

Oh, also paddle bits work in a cordless. Actually can be faster...but cordless can have a hard time eating through some of the logs and you can only get a couple outlets drilled from 1 battery charge.

Walk in with sharp wood chisels, good wood sawzall bits, and GOOD self feeds. Dull self feeds are a BEAR to deal with  And when you are trying to fine tune dept with wires right there, much easier to be accurate when bit is going at a easy pace.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

I have done several and all i can say is charge at least 3-4 times your normal rate. You might better plan on being on site at all times and drill the holes yourself. If it is cold weather plan on the holes freezing up too, the drill bit will get hot and let the log seep moisture thus draining into the hole and freezing solid so plan on this if it still cold where you are. I myself try to line up interior and exterior outlets with windows, this way you can drill straight down through into the basement, same for wall sconces, you can drill sideways through the window area into the wall and use the window for a runway. Plan on nail guarding everything too. Also watch the contractor to be sure they do not put their screws through the center of the logs, you hit one of those screws with a bit and you will be out $35-$40. 

Be sure the bits and extensions are tight, nothing worse than losing a bit 5' down in a wall. I myself prefer to cut out the holes myself for the boxes, i use a jigsaw and a good wood chisel. Takes about 5minutes to cut it out. A cordless drill with a 1" paddle bit will fine tune the back of it. Be sure the HO knows what they want! Once it is in it is done. The last log home i did the HO spoke with the contractor "on a friday" about changing the door swing of the entry door. I was on another job and came in the next day "saterday" and cut out the entry way door switches and outside light. You would have thought that at least one of them would have contacted me about the change or at least left a note stuck to the doorway. Needless to say i had the final say of what way the door swung.


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## Jcode (Mar 24, 2011)

Good point, forgot we do that too with doors. Cut a chanel into the side of the log before they put in doors and you can run wires up into it, drill sideways to your switch box, nail plate back down.

I just talked to my step dad today about how he bids them and his words he "doesn't have a general blanket for bidding log homes". It all depends on who is building it, what style, and how big logs are (8", 10", 12" etc). 

Local trades here are pretty good with drilling holes, but we will always find a couple that are a pita. This is when a flex bit comes in handy. Only use these for cleaning out holes. I've either snapped heads off trying to drill with them, or they wont tighten enough in the drill and will spin (usually only a problem in a cordless).

Also in case you're wondering, we still use nail on boxes. Just nip the ears off for the nails and drywall them in place. The metal boxes are just too small and not worth dealing with in the whole house, ontop of having to bond to the box then. Same for single up to 4 gang, just use plastic.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I wire log homes and your labor and wiring costs are higher. You sound like you have the extra wire costs figured, because of the route you have to take. I don't drill and chisel my holes. I built a jig and use a plunge router. If you drill/chisel, figure 60 min per box. I use a metal drawn gang box because the router will make a perfect fit in the log. 

http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=3G4D12 

I've had nail benders cutting boxes for me and had gaps around the wall plates.(can't fill them in) Now I do all my own cutting. So guys don't smooth out the hole edges but the wall plates don't fit then. I use a disk sander and work from the edge of the box out to make a flat spot for the plate. If you have small logs(6 in) I put the box in between the logs and make a cove piece to cover the box side. I'll take a picture of the jigs and router tomorrow and post them.


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## Jcode (Mar 24, 2011)

Might be prefrence but to me that looks ew... We usually just have builder make blocks to make the plates sit flat. Always has looked good, and have them doing after we rough in the log home. 

Other than the preference thing looks pretty good! We've used a router to make channels but only do a log home a year. 3 at most. Only had a tiny one 2 years ago and none sense. Sloooowww few years.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I've never seen blocks on the logs for wall plates. I do put blocks outside(2x6) for lights.


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## Jcode (Mar 24, 2011)

Sorry, bit hard to image when I say it like that so heres a mspaint drawing. Green is what they will do for our devices and plates to sit flush. Blue is the box just for a visual. Scale is probably off but you can get the idea. They always do it in similar color to the log and or stain the wood peaces they are using. So its not just a normal 2x4 hacked and cut to shape.









We have had some builders do it your way though. Didnt care for it as it draws your eyes to the devices which aren't exactly decorative peaces.

BTW go to the unbreakable plates. Makes life so much easier IMO! They also let you get your screws up and down without chance of cracking the plate


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

How do they shape the back of the block to fit the log profile? Or is the log cut and the block sits into it. 

It's and old picture, I only use unbreakable and always line my screws on the vertical now.


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## Jcode (Mar 24, 2011)

From what I can tell they chisel it. I've never seen the process done, just the finish product which is nailed up with trim nails (those tiny things from airgun) by time we show up. Looks to me they just chisel it till its close, then use similar colored caulking around the edges to clean up the look. Similar to what they use to fill cabinet holes from nails I do believe. It actually looks pretty clean when all said and done with devices and plates in and on...

More I think about it I think it may even be all one peace just so it looks complete all the way around with no break in the calking or the wood around the plate.

A apologize if I seem little less detailed that one would like. Like I said, its been a long while since we did a log home and the last 2 were small. One like a 600 sq ft cabin and the other a addition that I wasn't there to help on the Rough in, just the finish.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Those look really good.And I can envision the appearance of the blocks(similar to the Arlington siding boxes)
What concerns me about working with the logs, is that a mistake is probably not repairable.
I can see that I will have to get my guys to try out a few installs on scrap logs. 
Couple of questions.

backstay- Do you sand the flat area before using the router?
jcode- how much past the cover do the carpenters make the block of wood?

I would think that any customer who builds a log home, must be concerned about the small details, so I better get this right the first time.

btw, we have been using the unbreakable covers for many years. They are great


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Other than 480Sparky does anyone make money wiring log homes? 

I am having a hard time understanding how you could win the bid and still end up in the black when done.


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

We finished one this winter. It is a royal pain. One guy I talked to said figure what you think it will take, then triple it. He wasn't far off. We also used windows and doors as wireways. One other trick we found was to cut out the hole for a box with a multimax type saw, then use an easybore bit (generally without the pilot drill) to "eat" the wood out of the hole.


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## Jcode (Mar 24, 2011)

Maybe half inch around the cover is showing. Can also depend on the log size.

Cutting into the logs is intimidating at first because, exactly, you don't have a second chance if you cut to far/much. But just double and triple check before doing any drilling or cutting and eventually you'll be all done. That is another time increasing is the _making sure_ part


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Here are some small logs I worked on. On small logs I put the boxes between the logs, on large log they go in the middle of the log. And I make money on log wiring. I have lost jobs to low bidders, but they don't last long.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Here is my setup for cutting holes. That is 5/8 ply I cut half of it out to let the router base sit in. I screw it to the log, then run the router inside taking out as much as the bit will let me. The sharper the bit the more wood I take with each pass. I've drilled and chiseled and this way is much faster and gives a perfect hole.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

backstay said:


> How do they shape the back of the block to fit the log profile? Or is the log cut and the block sits into it.
> 
> It's and old picture, I only use unbreakable and always line my screws on the vertical now.


The ones i had made were done with a large saw, you will find the log saw uses a 15 or 15.5" blade and has the same contour as the log. I had a fella set up his saw so he just took a 2X8 and run it sideways into the blade giving the back of the wood the same contour as the blade. He then cut out the square hole and routered the edges. He charged me $10 each so it was not worth my time to screw with it. I will have to see if i can find some pics.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

backstay said:


> Here is my setup for cutting holes. That is 5/8 ply I cut half of it out to let the router base sit in. I screw it to the log, then run the router inside taking out as much as the bit will let me. The sharper the bit the more wood I take with each pass. I've drilled and chiseled and this way is much faster and gives a perfect hole.


I have seen this done before, the guy made his template out of 1/4" Aluminum and it did work well.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

wcord said:


> ....Couple of questions.
> 
> backstay- Do you sand the flat area before using the router?


No, I cut the box first. Then I flaten the area for the switch plate with the router(I do this with a scrap of wood on each side). Then I shape the sides with a disk sander. If you practice on a few scrap logs, you will get your depth of cut down. I'm working on a jig that will shape and flatten the log with the router in the first pass, then insert a piece to plunge the box cut. If I get that figured out, box cuts will be 10 min each.


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

The one we did the logs were flat on 3 sides, with tonges and grooves on the top and bottom. The only curved surface was the outside, so the only place I really had to fight it was the coach lights. The router cuts a nice clean hole, and probably faster than my saw then drill.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

JCODE, I looked through some of my log home mags, online and could not find any inside boxes done with blocks. You have any pictures you could post? I did see a few large logs with boxes set in between the logs. I haven't tried that, but when it warms up outside I'm going to. Then I'll post some pictures. Here are some I found online, they are not mine.


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## coolerman (Apr 12, 2011)

Hello folks. Newbie to the site. :jester:

I'm a process control electrician by trade and currently in the process of building a personal log home . I found this thread via a Google search. 

Here is what the manufacturer of our log home suggested for trimming out outlets and such. The pic is of a "rustic' version. The site below has some more refined versions. If you have client that wants a more polished look try that link.
http://www.woodwallplates.com/


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I think the plates are crude looking. Maybe they look better when they are on the wall. Some of this is what you are use to seeing and I haven't seen those before. Anything you do that increases the wall switch area will make it stand out more(blocks, large flat area)most customers don't want that.


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## coolerman (Apr 12, 2011)

I agree that the "rustic" plates are crude, that's why they are called "rustic" 

These are more what the wife had in mind...


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

1 gang $17
2 gang $22
3 gang $27

You still need to cut your box out, and like I said before, I have done it with a drill and chisle. Now I do it with the router and it is a far better finished product and faster. 

These would be cheaper than working the logs, labor would eat up that $17 bucks pretty fast. If they would stain the same as a log, then they might just blend in. Coolerman, are you going to use these? We want pictures of your log home in phases.


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## coolerman (Apr 12, 2011)

Yes we will probably use these. I am hiring the electric done (not my area of expertise) but will do the alarm and audio/video wiring myself. I came here to get ideas for my electrician. :laughing: 
Here is a link to a web site I started on the construction of the home. 

http://www.globalsoftware-inc.com/coolerman/1335/main.htm

All we have right now is a basement foundation. Sub floor arrives next week.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

The log home I did used logs that were flat on the interior side.

Holes were not prefrilled. It took a full weekend to located the proper, numbered logs in the receptacle and switch course and cut boxes in them and drill them.

We waited till the framers layed down 3 rows, then used an 18" auger with an extension to drill down to the basement level to feed the receps.

We fed the switches up through routered channels in the door openings.

On the exterior receps, we cut in wp boxes in the center of the rounded logs and left the *center* of the box flush. I think that would be a better look on the rounded interior logs than those god awful trim pieces. Interior device covers fit pergectly on wp boxes. You might want to pre paint them brown to match the logs.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

220/221 said:


> The log home I did used logs that were flat on the interior side.
> 
> Holes were not prefrilled. It took a full weekend to located the proper, numbered logs in the receptacle and switch course and cut boxes in them and drill them.
> 
> ...


 On full size logs you can't drill straight down. The logs hang over the foundation. The first log gets a 45 deg drill down and in, then the rest get drilled to that hole(which gets full of chips and can be a pain to clear)


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Has anyone ever attempted to wire a log home according to the Chicago code? :jester:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Peter D said:


> Has anyone ever attempted to wire a log home according to the Chicago code? :jester:


:laughing::laughing::no::laughing::laughing:


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Has anyone ever attempted to wire a log home according to the Chicago code? :jester:


Good Luck!!! I think i would rather stay home and rub one out with a glass mitten.:blink:


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## coolerman (Apr 12, 2011)

We are using 8" "D" logs. They are milled flat (with a W pattern to interlock each other) top and bottom then evenly round milled on the sides so that all logs have an identical profile. They are pre-drilled but due to my alarm wiring I will have to drill some extra holes around every window and door. 

Got any tips for that? 

I updated the web page with our latest disaster. 
Concrete contractor poured the foundation 2' short. No... I am not kidding... He missed it, the general contractor missed it and the inspector from the bank missed it. Never thought I would need to check it. He then cracked another wall trying to cut out the back wall. Now he has two walls to replace.
This has brought the whole project to a screeching halt. He has agreed to fix it entirely at his expense but it's going to delay us another week, possibly more. Of course it's raining... again... They did finish my shop though.


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Coolerman, I just read all the pages at your site. Interesting, I'll be following your progress. One question, are you the general on this job or is your general contractor running it. Obviously he shoud have caught the concrete contractors mistakes, not you. Thats why he makes the big bucks. Hope it all works out, enjoy. Keep us posted.


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## coolerman (Apr 12, 2011)

No, I have a general contractor, and yes he should have caught this error. It gets better. The concrete guy arrived at 6:00AM to get a head start removing the rest of the rear wall. He must have a learning disability. He again cut the wall only part way through and tried to pull it down with a track hoe... With the exact same results! He cracked the OTHER wall! The general contractor got on site just as the guy was climbing out cussing. He now has to replace the entire rear wall including both rear corners... He doesn't know it but as soon as he finishes the repair he's off the job. He would be off the job now but he was already paid for the basement walls.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

coolerman said:


> No, I have a general contractor, and yes he should have caught this error. It gets better. The concrete guy arrived at 6:00AM to get a head start removing the rest of the rear wall. He must have a learning disability. He again cut the wall only part way through and tried to pull it down with a track hoe... With the exact same results! He cracked the OTHER wall! The general contractor got on site just as the guy was climbing out cussing. He now has to replace the entire rear wall including both rear corners... He doesn't know it but as soon as he finishes the repair he's off the job. He would be off the job now but he was already paid for the basement walls.


Who hired this guy, sounds like he's what is sometimes refered to as a hack!


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## muck (Jun 30, 2008)

Don't forget to back charge him for the delay - If he is going to eat the repair I would back charge the GC as it is partially his fault for not catching it.


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