# Old hotel Switchgear



## ibew415 (Mar 23, 2014)

*Switchgear*

The last picture is the side of the gear


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Nice fuses


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

Sparky J said:


> Nice fuses


Is that single phase or corner-grounded delta?
Maybe it was DC originally! 
Where is it located?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Sparky J said:


> Nice fuses


I'd say they converted that to a neutral system, because all the fuse holders on that one bus are shunted.


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## ibew415 (Mar 23, 2014)

retiredsparktech said:


> Is that single phase or corner-grounded delta?
> Maybe it was DC originally!
> Where is it located?


Single phase, actually the panel is still in use.

I originally thought that some genius maintenance man put copper in place of fuses.....but I found out the copper is the neutral....so I guess they didint have an isolated neutral bar?


I don't think DC made it out here to Wyoming....I've heard of old elevators being DC here...


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Similar a friend removed


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

ibew415 said:


> Single phase, actually the panel is still in use.
> 
> I originally thought that some genius maintenance man put copper in place of fuses.....but I found out the copper is the neutral....so I guess they didint have an isolated neutral bar?
> 
> ...


I didn't read the location, when I posted, regarding DC use.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

That made my day. btw, they do make shunt fuses listed for that.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

meadow said:


> That made my day. btw, they do make shunt fuses listed for that.


I saw then in the Buss catalogue. They're stamped, "Not a fuse".


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

ibew415 said:


> Single phase, actually the panel is still in use.
> 
> I originally thought that some genius maintenance man put copper in place of fuses.....but I found out the copper is the neutral....so I guess they didint have an isolated neutral bar?
> 
> ...


The gear was likely built as 3 phase, they then just used it on single phase, or the utility converted them to single phase at one point and they didn't want to change out the gear. 

That sort of thing happened a lot I think. In a lot of old hotels in the west, I've seen where they were often the first place to get electricity in an area, probably because it attracted travelers by seeming safer than gas lighting, and many of them had their own on-site generators. I stayed at one that was like that in gold rush country outside of Sacramento and when they bragged about having the first electric elevator west of the Rockies, I asked to see the gear (this pisses my wife off every time I do it). They apparently had added a water-wheel powered generator at the hotel at the turn of the century, then the utility connected them some time in the 20s. All of the original gear was hand made in San Francisco at small companies that no longer exist, but it was all artisan quality work; polished brass and copper, ornately stamped metal covers etc., very pretty (for someone in our trade anyway). I wish I had taken pictures.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I realize this post is a bit old, but I have something similar to show. I pulled this panel out of an old building in downtown Vancouver that used to be a meat packing plant. This one looks like it was built to be single phase, but with fuses on the neutrals. I was thinking maybe they used to do it that way once upon a time. The inspector was there when I was pulling it out, and he suggested putting oversize fuses in the neutral spots and hooking it back up... I assume he was joking. I now have it framed in my living room with built in strip LEDs in a custom shadow box frame. Just don't have a picture of the finished product at the moment.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

B-Nabs said:


> I realize this post is a bit old, but I have something similar to show. I pulled this panel out of an old building in downtown Vancouver that used to be a meat packing plant. This one looks like it was built to be single phase, but with fuses on the neutrals. I was thinking maybe they used to do it that way once upon a time. The inspector was there when I was pulling it out, and he suggested putting oversize fuses in the neutral spots and hooking it back up... I assume he was joking. I now have it framed in my living room with built in strip LEDs in a custom shadow box frame. Just don't have a picture of the finished product at the moment.


The post might be a bit old, but keep the pictures and information coming!
It's an important part of the history of electricity and installations of the past. :thumbsup:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I would also like to see the finished product on that. Every time I see that old switchgear I think it should be a display piece.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

B-Nabs said:


> I realize this post is a bit old, but I have something similar to show. I pulled this panel out of an old building in downtown Vancouver that used to be a meat packing plant. This one looks like it was built to be single phase, but with fuses on the neutrals. I was thinking maybe they used to do it that way once upon a time. The inspector was there when I was pulling it out, and he suggested putting oversize fuses in the neutral spots and hooking it back up... I assume he was joking. I now have it framed in my living room with built in strip LEDs in a custom shadow box frame. Just don't have a picture of the finished product at the moment.


I used to live up in Seattle and pulled a couple of those out of some residential homes in the Green Lake area. 

What are those backer boards made out of? I remember being an apprentice and my Jman telling me they were asbestos. Looks like they could have been slate or some type of stone as well. Anyone know?


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm still working on taking a picture of the finished product that isn't ruined by reflections, but in the meantime I did find this one of the panel still in its original installation...


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

Ungrounded system. Both conductors were fused in these old jobs. Many old hotels in Downtown LA had these, some are still in service.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

FaultCurrent said:


> Ungrounded system. Both conductors were fused in these old jobs. Many old hotels in Downtown LA had these, some are still in service.


The original service to the building was single phase center-tapped, so I don't think it is the ungrounded system you speak of... I think they just fused the neutral for some reason. Or are you saying it was single phase center-tapped but the neutral was not grounded? That would be a new one to me.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

Yep, the building supply was not grounded. No neutral, just black wires feeding each hotel room. Many homes also had two wire ungrounded services in the old days. The old homes all had a service porch in the back and up on the wall was a A-base meter and a porcelain block knife switch with two 15 amp fuses feeding one circuit for the whole house. Wiring was exposed, covered with loom, and entered wall through two tubes. Still see them around when only old people are still in the home. 

The oldest houses didn't have receptacles. Instead they had Edison base screw shell outlets that had adapters plugged in to use 2 prong plugs. I remember as a kid going into a home in Downtown Long Beach and seeing the screw shells in the kitchen walls. 

Also learned about Murphy beds, speaking tubes, and doorbell batteries in the attic, but I digress......


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Switched said:


> ...
> What are those backer boards made out of? I remember being an apprentice and my Jman telling me they were asbestos. Looks like they could have been slate or some type of stone as well. Anyone know?


Dark gray like that was slate, if it were a lighter ashy gray color, it might have been asbestos. But the asbestos scare caused most people to pull the trigger on replacing those in the 70s and 80s, whereas on the older slate ones nobody felt compelled, that's why you still find them now and then.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I've never seen backerboard made out of asbestos. It's pretty fragile stuff, I don't know that it has the structural integrity needed for that.

Any insulators around arcing components are very likely asbestos containing, however. Where I've seen it in old houses is as a protective lining around the interior of wooden fuse boxes. 

My personal opinion is concerns about it are drastically exaggerated. If it's not friable and left undisturbed, it's not hazardous.


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## FF301 (Jan 12, 2014)

Yes these were ungrounded systems. No nuetrals so there was 60 volt phase to phase for your 120 volt. Converted when grid systems came around and they removed local generating sources.


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