# Smoke detectors outside bedrooms



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

the codes are specific.

here's fairfax code (it references va code)
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/fr/download/obeythelaw.pdf

I think now it's IBC ?, but similar


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

He is correct, should be one outside all bedroom areas.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Just a thought but can you feed the smoky from a receptacle? They can usually be placed high on the wall.

If you need communication, I have been using the Nests as the biggest bang for the buck. The homeowner programs them since they can be tied into a smartphone. Up here, we're allowed wireless communication as long as they're hardwired for power.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Yep up here they look at it that way. I got dinged in a house a few years ago for one missing in a hallway outside a bedroom area where they were at either end and had a laundry and bathroom in the middle. When in doubt put one it's easier than doing it after the fact, unless it's easy attic above or something. 
Also watch the remodel code ups here for a while they were preaching to add smokes to a home under renovation. Problem was each jurisdiction has a different definition of renovation. I had to fight one who wanted smokes added to code in a totally finished 1900s big house where we added a powder bath on the main level. They finally dropped it but it took some doing. The kicker is they stamped the builders submitted plans, now really when do builders give us the submitted plan copy especially on a tiny powder room.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Most places I wire have no building inspection. So much easier.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

I would've thought he should say something on the rough. I would bust his chops about it.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

This is what has been accepted where we are.
Service upgrade, update smoke locatoions,

Every bedroom gets one.
3' horizontal clear of any ductwork
5' away from a facing air duct.

CO detector in outside of the bedrooms. They can share one detector but it cannot be more than 10' from the door.
Cannot be within 3' of the bathroom
Cannot be, if possible, within 20' of the kitchen

All are 120 volt and interconnected.

They will allow 10 year lithium battery smoke detectors if you can prove you have no practical access.

It's somewhat debate able about which circuit it belongs on.
Traditionally they have been on a bathroom lighting circuit, they have allowed this since most houses have a smoke detector outside of the bedrooms and we pull out of there for the new ones.
Now, they seem to end up on an arc- fault bedroom circuit.


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

Don't they accept 0.7? If from some part of your detector to the furthermost edge of the opening is not more than 21' and the detector is listed for 30' spacing, it meets the National Fire Alarm Code.

17.7.3.2.3.1* In the absence of specific performance-based design
criteria, one of the following requirements shall apply:
(1) The distance between smoke detectors shall not exceed a
nominal spacing of 30 ft (9.1 m) and there shall be detectors
within a distance of one-half the nominal spacing,
measured at right angles from all walls or partitions extending
upward to within the top 15 percent of the ceiling
height.
(2)*All points on the ceiling shall have a detector within a
distance equal to or less than 0.7 times the nominal 30 ft
(9.1 m) spacing (0.7S).


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Interesting.
Is there a separate rule for dwellings?
For some reason, a recent comment by our FD limited the outside of bedrooms to 10' 
Now that I think about it, that does seem a bit overkill based on your comment.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

I always installed a smoke detector on every level and where installed on a level with bedrooms, then within 10ft of any bedroom door. If the hallway was longer I would install 2. 
Also I will install a combo CO/smoke outside of bedrooms. 
I also install them in every bedroom. 
At least 12" from a wall, 3' from an air duct, 3' from a bathroom door, 4' from an A/C return.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would check with your local building code requirements. Around here it is a smoke detector in every room and one in the common area outside the room. If the hall is 30' then I believe you need 2 as the manufacturers info will state that the smoke will cover 30' of hall-- 15' each way.

Carbon smokes are only required on floor levels where there are bedrooms and it is only required in the halls not in the bedrooms.

A smoke is also required on every floor level and these much all be interconnected


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## KadinCampbell (Oct 29, 2015)

In single-family or multifamily homes, smoke alarms shall be placed inside each sleeping area, outside each sleeping area and on each level of the dwelling. Smoke alarms are not required in unfinished attics, unfinished basements or kitchens.

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/list_6895922_national-smoke-alarm-residential-requirements.html


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

GrayHair said:


> Don't they accept 0.7? If from some part of your detector to the furthermost edge of the opening is not more than 21' and the detector is listed for 30' spacing, it meets the National Fire Alarm Code.
> 
> 17.7.3.2.3.1* In the absence of specific performance-based design
> criteria, one of the following requirements shall apply:
> ...


I know this applies to "smoke detectors" but I'm not sure if it applies to "smoke alarms". 

The manufacturer's literature should list the coverage for the smoke alarm and CO detectors and the building code dictates placement. 

Pete


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

KadinCampbell said:


> In single-family or multifamily homes, smoke alarms shall be placed inside each sleeping area, outside each sleeping area and on each level of the dwelling. Smoke alarms are not required in unfinished attics, unfinished basements or kitchens.
> 
> Read more : http://www.ehow.com/list_6895922_national-smoke-alarm-residential-requirements.html


They are required in unfinished basements, it's a level.


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

Pete,

I could not find my copy of UL-268 to compare System Smokes with Single-station/Multiple Station smokes. In 72 I can't anything in Chapter 29 that says 0.7 is or is not used, but it is applied in 29.5.1.1(2). [I think it's funny they define Smoke Alarm in 3.3.268 and the UL standard for Smoke Detectors for Fire Alarm Systems is 268.]



> *Single- and Multiple-Station Alarms and Household Fire Alarm Systems*
> 29.5 Detection and Notification. The use of fire alarm system smoke detectors and notification appliances shall be permitted to meet the fire-warning requirements for smoke alarms specified in 29.5.1.
> 29.5.1* Required Detection.
> 29.5.1.1* Where required by other governing laws, codes, or standards for a specific type of occupancy, approved singleand multiple-station smoke alarms shall be installed as follows:
> ...


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

I know this is a bit dated but here's my update. (And I agree, it's bs that nothing was said about it on the rough) Anyway, I went out there with my new smoke to put in, the f#&(ing building inspector was there, and he wants to know if it's a co2 combo unit. I tell him no, it's an all electric house. He says really? And points to the gas cook top the got#/*,motherf&sking homeowner just put in the day before. So I got to make another lovely trip out there for that. That was one miserable Job and I'm glad it's over. The inspectors were such morons... they wanted a disconnect on the inside unit of a mini split.. uhhhhh there's one outside that kills power to the whole system. Freaking backwoods clowns


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Hippie said:


> I know this is a bit dated but here's my update. (And I agree, it's bs that nothing was said about it on the rough) Anyway, I went out there with my new smoke to put in, the f#&(ing building inspector was there, and he wants to know if it's a co2 combo unit. I tell him no, it's an all electric house. He says really? And points to the gas cook top the got#/*,motherf&sking homeowner just put in the day before. So I got to make another lovely trip out there for that. That was one miserable Job and I'm glad it's over. The inspectors were such morons... they wanted a disconnect on the inside unit of a mini split.. uhhhhh there's one outside that kills power to the whole system. Freaking backwoods clowns


Those backwoods clowns seem to be correct on all fronts so I am not sure why you are blaming them. Around here every area adjacent to bedrooms need a carbon as well as a smoke- we use the smoke/carbon units.

There is a lot of debate but IMO a switch is required by the nec for a mini split.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

My state adopted a similar NFPA standard, which whatever expensive changes that could be applied....

They have a Nov 1st '_deadline_' for the entire state to comply.....

What most don't realize is, it's a deadline they've repeatedly moved up for a number of years now

The only compliance i see is, new construction & those viewed via complaints to the state.

Otherwise i'd say we're maybe 5% compliant 

It is, IMO, a broken system ....

~CS~


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Those backwoods clowns seem to be correct on all fronts so I am not sure why you are blaming them. Around here every area adjacent to bedrooms need a carbon as well as a smoke- we use the smoke/carbon units.

There is a lot of debate but IMO a switch is required by the nec for a mini split.

How is a switch required? There is one disconnect at the outside unit that shuts down the whole system. A second disconnect is just redundant


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

It's not like a typical split system where each part has its own separate power supply


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

backstay said:


> Most places I wire have no building inspection. So much easier.


That is actually to bad. Inspections are good for business.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Hippie said:


> How is a switch required? There is one disconnect at the outside unit that shuts down the whole system. A second disconnect is just redundant


If you want to work on the fan unit then there is no switch within sight. Motors require a disconnect within sight



> 430.102(B)(1) Separate Motor Disconnect. A disconnecting means
> for the motor shall be located in sight from the motor location
> and the driven machinery location.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If you want to work on the fan unit then there is no switch within sight. Motors require a disconnect within sight


Even fractional ones?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Breaker locks are allowed. Also my firm belief is locking out the compressor in the off position achieves the same function, so I blatantly get into inspectors faces when they cry for an inside switch. You should hear some of the imaginative stuff they come up with trying to justify their insistence on providing an indoor fan unit switch.


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