# In Use Covers and G.F.C.I. Protection



## zac (May 11, 2009)

Why does an exterior receptacle need to be G.F.C.I.
protected when it's in an in use cover? Why shouldn't any receptacle within 6' of a door leading outside not be G.F.C.I. protected? 

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> Why does an exterior receptacle need to be G.F.C.I.
> protected when it's in an in use cover?


 The cover doesn't make any difference to the situation. The issue is the person standing on the wet ground while plugging something in and possibly touching the hot prong, or touching part of the electrical item that became energized, or that item being on the wet ground that you might step on and get into the voltage gradient.



> Why shouldn't any receptacle within 6' of a door leading outside not be G.F.C.I. protected?


 I don't doubt people have suggested it, and it will one day be part of the 43,000 page code.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

zac said:


> Why does an exterior receptacle need to be G.F.C.I.
> protected when it's in an in use cover? * Why shouldn't any receptacle within 6' of a door leading outside not be G.F.C.I. protected?*
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I should make a code proposal .... Realistically, someone could run an ext cord outside :biggrin:


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

We have to G.F.C.I. protect a receptacle 6' from a sink. Why not from 6' from an exterior door? 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> We have to G.F.C.I. protect a receptacle 6' from a sink. Why not from 6' from an exterior door?


Because there has to be a line somewhere, and that line is always going to be arbitrary and a matter of opinion.

It is more likely for someone to bring an electrical item near a sink than run a cord outside, so they made the lin between those two things. The line will change.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

zac said:


> We have to G.F.C.I. protect a receptacle 6' from a sink. Why not from 6' from an exterior door?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


And 6' from a window, just in case it's left open during a storm !


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

emtnut said:


> And 6' from a window, just in case it's left open during a storm !


I never thought about that. 
I'm going to start selling G.F.C.I. protection 6' from any opening that goes outside. 
Maybe in use covers and G.F.C.I. protection in the dining room? Somebody could spill the pitcher of lemonade. 


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Because there has to be a line somewhere, and that line is always going to be arbitrary and a matter of opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> It is more likely for someone to bring an electrical item near a sink than run a cord outside, so they made the lin between those two things. The line will change.


The line always does and it usually goes to the lowest common denominator and cash grab combo. 

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Are you having a bad day zac??? I offer free hugs bro.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

No bad day but thanks. Just hate doing paperwork! 

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## Mobius87 (May 20, 2019)

If memory serves there are places (Europe?) where the entire panel is GFCI protected. So I'm sure someday in the near future we will be looking sat whole panel AFCI and GFCI protection. Plus whatever new CI they can come up with. Maybe BFCI.

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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

zac said:


> Maybe in use covers and G.F.C.I. protection in the dining room? Somebody could spill the pitcher of lemonade.


You know what, this makes sense everywhere. Kitchen plugs (you never know if the homeowner will spray the backsplash with their fancy faucet).

Makes sense in the bathrooms (kids and those damn showers heads on a hose, am I right?).

Makes sense for every other receptacle in the house (those kids and their water balloon fights I tell ya!).

And of course, all the receptacles should be AFCI and GFCI protected as well.

Where do we stop with this?

How about those light switches? LOL!

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I always found it interesting how receptacles outside of a business do not have to be GFI, but in residential they do. (Canada)


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

eddy current said:


> I always found it interesting how receptacles outside of a business do not have to be GFI, but in residential they do. (Canada)


That is quite interesting. 

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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Not that I want anymore to die. There is only so much stupid I can install wiring and devices to protect.
If we don't let Darwin take some of the these Mensa players, the world will be filled with fcuking morons. They will breed too:surprise:


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Since we have to be "qualified" to install wiring, I think people should have to be qualified to use it.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

*I wanna know why......*

.....we have to use "weather-resistant" receptacles when they're installed in a weatherproof enclosure.


:vs_smirk:


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

CTshockhazard said:


> .....we have to use "weather-resistant" receptacles when they're installed in a weatherproof enclosure.
> 
> 
> :vs_smirk:


I use to think that was just another code to benefit manufacturers. But I was told that the WR is there to protect device from ultra violet rays from the sun. Most in use covers are clear so the outlets are vulnerable from the rays.
I used to install non wr receptacles until I started getting call backs that the device failed. Since then I haven't had any issues purchasing WR outlets. 
Now why there isn't a WR switch is beyond me.

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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

zac said:


> Now why there isn't a WR switch is beyond me.


No switches are WR because they make those expensive waterproof covers.

It would be useful to have some WR switches though. A few times I've installed a 2 gang bubble cover with a switch and a plug.

Now you got me curious about the WR rated stuff. I think I'll buy a WR GFCI and a regular GFCI this summer and stick them in the dash of the car to see which one lasts longer.


Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Funksparky (Nov 8, 2017)

How come hot water tanks don’t need GFCI protection??


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Funksparky said:


> How come hot water tanks don’t need GFCI protection??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dual function with a lockable disconnect :biggrin:

Oh, and a shunt trip wired to a float switch ... I'm writing the proposal as we speak.
I'll add a notwithstanding clause on the float, if it's mounted in the attic


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

emtnut said:


> Dual function with a lockable disconnect [emoji3]
> 
> Oh, and a shunt trip wired to a float switch ... I'm writing the proposal as we speak.
> I'll add a notwithstanding clause on the float, if it's mounted in the attic


I legit would not be surprised if that got written into code.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Funksparky (Nov 8, 2017)

Oops. 


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> No switches are WR because they make those expensive waterproof covers.
> 
> It would be useful to have some WR switches though. A few times I've installed a 2 gang bubble cover with a switch and a plug.
> 
> ...


They actually make weatherproof "switch cover"s that look like a standard decora switch. Forget trying to install a dimmer switch with one of these or the other types of covers with exterior paddles.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Because there has to be a line somewhere, and t*hat line is always going to be arbitrary and a matter of opinion.*
> 
> It is more likely for someone to bring an electrical item near a sink than run a cord outside, so they made the lin between those two things. The line will change.


Doesn't that describe most new codes over the last few cycles, coupled with "He who has the deepest pockets wins".


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

zac said:


> Why does an exterior receptacle need to be G.F.C.I.
> protected when it's in an in use cover? Why shouldn't any receptacle within 6' of a door leading outside not be G.F.C.I. protected?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


My thoughts..
The in-use cover serves the purpose of protecting the receptacle from water and is required on all outdoor residential installations in my area. I actually prefer the standard weatherproof flip covers. In use covers are more applicable if the cord is plugged in all the time. I personally wind up my cords at the end of the day. But things like fountains and sprinkler controls stay plugged in so it makes sense to have the raised cover. GFCI is to protect anything down stream like the cord and any attached devices. Think about it.. Some guy or gal is outside on a sunny day in their bathing suit and bare feet washing their car. When they finish they decide to vacuum the interior. Faulty vacuum, bare feet and no GFCI. Bad combo.. The problem is that lots of times people bootleg receptacle in their garage or exterior of their homes and it's not GFI protected. I kind of agree with you on having GFCI's within 6 feet of a doorway as that's another place that people plug into when working outside.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Easy said:


> They actually make weatherproof "switch cover"s that look like a standard decora switch. Forget trying to install a dimmer switch with one of these or the other types of covers with exterior paddles.


These look nifty. What brand are these?

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> These look nifty. What brand are these?
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


Bell is the manufacture. Home Depot sells them but probably an online order. 
Here is the skew -> Internet #306055542 Model # 5129-0 UPC Code # 050169512906


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

emtnut said:


> I should make a code proposal .... Realistically, someone could run an ext cord outside :biggrin:


Please Don't enough already


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Easy said:


> Bell is the manufacture. Home Depot sells them but probably an online order.
> Here is the skew -> Internet #306055542 Model # 5129-0 UPC Code # 050169512906


Those look great, too bad home depot shows them as discontinued.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Jeff Tremblay said:


> So the electricians are complaining about GFCI protection requirements in residential homes?
> 
> This makes me think that most of these people posting over and over are actually helpers, HVAC guys or industrial electricians (they are notorious for thinking they are electricians able to work in residential and commercial, simply because they work with larger voltages and motors)
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you're saying... Can you rephrase it using a stereo analogy?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Funksparky said:


> How come hot water tanks don’t need GFCI protection??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How come I keep running across heater tanks that are wired with Carflex whips when they are installed indoors in a closet?


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> How come I keep running across heater tanks that are wired with Carflex whips when they are installed indoors in a closet?


Here's one I found on Facebook wired with PVC...


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Jeff Tremblay said:


> So the electricians are complaining about GFCI protection requirements in residential homes?
> 
> This makes me think that most of these people posting over and over are actually helpers, HVAC guys or industrial electricians (they are notorious for thinking they are electricians able to work in residential and commercial, simply because they work with larger voltages and motors)
> 
> ...



Can I have your points before you leave? Don't mention circle jerking, It gets some members here all gay and hard 
Give Travis a big kiss for me :vs_love:


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Here's one I found on Facebook wired with PVC...


The metal flex squeeze connectors make it my kind of install.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

JoeSparky said:


> It gets some members here all gay and hard


Tell me more....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Here's one I found on Facebook wired with PVC...



Were you in Vermont when you took that picture by any chance?


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

CoolWill said:


> Tell me more....



I have video:surprise: Here, in a PM or straight to YouTube?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Jeff Tremblay said:


> So the electricians are complaining about GFCI protection requirements in residential homes?
> 
> This makes me think that most of these people posting over and over are actually helpers, HVAC guys or industrial electricians (they are notorious for thinking they are electricians able to work in residential and commercial, simply because they work with larger voltages and motors)
> 
> ...


Hi Frunkslammer.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> How come I keep running across heater tanks that are wired with Carflex whips when they are installed indoors in a closet?


Protection. I will see that on furnaces, used as a sleeve to protect the Romex.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Protection. I will see that on furnaces, used as a sleeve to protect the Romex.


Oh, have you?


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> Hi Frunkslammer.



Naaaaaa. :no: Frunk knows everything about points here. I'd already be 102 points richer by now.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

JoeSparky said:


> I have video:surprise: Here, in a PM or straight to YouTube?


YouTube won't show the kind of instruction I need.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Oh, have you?


Why would you do this?


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Why would you do this?


You've kinda been asking for it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Why would you do this?


Because I do what I want, when I want and ain't nobody tell me what to do!


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> Because I do what I want, when I want and ain't nobody tell me what to do!


I see a bucket of 5000 Briscon non-insulated romex staples from Home Depot in some angry guy's hands soon:smile:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

JoeSparky said:


> I see a bucket of 5000 Briscon non-insulated romex staples from Home Depot in some angry guy's hands soon:smile:


Not mine, I only use insulated.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

zac said:


> I never thought about that.
> I'm going to start selling G.F.C.I. protection 6' from any opening that goes outside.
> Maybe in use covers and G.F.C.I. protection in the dining room? Somebody could spill the pitcher of lemonade.
> 
> ...


And Don’t forget within six feet of doors and windows of the storage sheds that have power!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I think it's time we put the ball in someone else's court. I move that all factory produced extension cords be provided with built -in GFCI protection. The existing non-GFCI cords, because they can be plugged into outlets six feet inside doors and windows, and yes, sheds, must be banned immediately. Think of the children!

Also, cord components shall no longer be made available to the general public. Only licenced electricians shall have access and be permitted to use these dangerous devices.

Once that has been adopted, next would be built-in GFCI protection on every cord connected appliance. Because really, no one can control where these appliances can be plugged into. An additional safety concern would also be eliminated; you can't force someone to upgrade a legally installed, pre-GFCI installation, problem solved with built-in GFCI !

If it saves just one life.......


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