# box fill?



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Couldn't tell you how it works in Canada, but in the NEC it's Article 314 I believe. There's a section in there that pretty decently spells out box fill and box sizing based on conductor and conduit sizes.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Couldn't tell you how it works in Canada, but in the NEC it's Article 314 I believe. There's a section in there that pretty decently spells out box fill and box sizing based on conductor and conduit sizes.











Couldn't tell you how it works in Oregon, but in the NEC Article 314 does not apply to data cables.:jester:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Couldn't tell you how it works in Oregon, but in the NEC Article 314 does not apply to data cables.:jester:


That's what I get for even attempting a code reference after half a dozen of these:










I give up.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

erics37 said:


> That's what I get for even attempting a code reference after half a dozen of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We still love ya. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

stuiec said:


> Is there a written code for conduit / box fill for data? My boss (we do primarily electrical) said he thought there was something relating the number of 2" pipes entering a box determining the size of the box. Where can I become enlightened?


Nothing I know of NEC wise.

You could try to follow BICSI standards. https://www.bicsi.org/Default.aspx

I don't have them but I think they limit raceways to 2 - 90s between pull points etc. I am sure they have box size recommendations.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Nothing I know of NEC wise.
> 
> You could try to follow BICSI standards. https://www.bicsi.org/Default.aspx
> 
> I don't have them but I think they limit raceways to 2 - 90s between pull points etc. I am sure they have box size recommendations.


Is that the standards that dictate a 4" conduit for a 25-pair phone cable?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Is that the standards that dictate a 4" conduit for a 25-pair phone cable?


:thumbsup:

And a spare 4" just in case ........


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

I just pulled 2x 50prs for 9 floors in a building thats less than 2 years old. The 3x 4 inch penetrations in the risers are nearly full with all the extras they ask for. 

If I am ever spec'ing out jobs I will be calculating how much space a worker takes up on the floor and assigning a pair per 2.2 square metres for instance even if they arent to capacity yet they will be at some stage and the cost for an extra 100pr per floor is nothing on a large job.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> I just pulled 2x 50prs for 9 floors in a building thats less than 2 years old. The 3x 4 inch penetrations in the risers are nearly full with all the extras they ask for.
> 
> If I am ever spec'ing out jobs I will be calculating how much space a worker takes up on the floor and assigning a pair per 2.2 square metres for instance even if they arent to capacity yet they will be at some stage and the cost for an extra 100pr per floor is nothing on a large job.


I should start doing that with power wiring, 

If the customer needs a 1" conduit I should make them pay for a 4" 'just in case'.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I should start doing that with power wiring,
> 
> If the customer needs a 1" conduit I should make them pay for a 4" 'just in case'.


Yeah but not everything has to be a home run for you guys.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> Yeah but not everything has to be a home run for you guys.




I still don't agree with the large amount of 'over done' phone and data conduits.

It is just wasteful and often unneeded. Phone and Data guys just don't want to get their hands dirty running new conduits as needed.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I still don't agree with the large amount of 'over done' phone and data conduits.
> 
> It is just wasteful and often unneeded. Phone and Data guys just don't want to get their hands dirty running new conduits as needed.



From my experiance campuses only want their grounds ripped up once. The comms conduit and manhole "networks" are designed with redundancy in mind. The green telecom conduit only comes in one size which is 4 inches as far as I know anyway. 

Internally I only run PVC and usually no smaller than 25mm (about an inch) for most stuff thats only in exposed areas and industrial sites, most stuff is on tray for commercial and office fitouts.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> From my experiance campuses only want their grounds ripped up once. The comms conduit and manhole "networks" are designed with redundancy in mind. The green telecom conduit only comes in one size which is 4 inches as far as I know anyway.


That is a specific condition and often extra power conduits are run as well. 

I assumed the OP was taking inside. 

But seriously a typical phone company spec will be two four inch (101 mm) conduits and they end up pulling a single small fiber in one.

It is a hold over from the days of 500 pair cables.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

BBQ said:


> That is a specific condition and often extra power conduits are run as well.
> 
> I assumed the OP was taking inside.
> 
> ...


Running conduit that size inside sounds ridiculous, they could get away with 150mm basket tray that will have a higher capacity and a smaller foot print. Mind you wiring completely in pipe sounds overkill to me anyway :laughing:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I'm doing a small data job in a bank soon (probably just a 1-day job or so)... the IT rack is at one end of the building, with suspended T-grid ceiling. The teller windows (where we're running the cabling to) is at the other end of the building, also with suspended ceiling. However, between the two ends of the building is the main lobby with a big vaulted ceiling with no accessible ceiling space. Building is on concrete slab. Upon researching how the hell to get wires from end to the other, I found a pair of nearly empty 2" conduits going into and out of each end of the vaulted ceiling, installed for the express purpose of pulling new cables across as needed. That was really smart for whoever installed it :thumbup:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

stuiec said:


> Is there a written code for conduit / box fill for data? My boss (we do primarily electrical) said he thought there was something relating the number of 2" pipes entering a box determining the size of the box. Where can I become enlightened?


Data don't have no codes. Make look bad as not to piss off the next data guy.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

The closest I could recommend is table 22 and table 23, although the smallest is a 14 for calc purposes. Section 60 also may have something in it as well. Still surfing through the ESAs software for you.:thumbsup:


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

chewy said:


> Running conduit that size inside sounds ridiculous, they could get away with 150mm basket tray that will have a higher capacity and a smaller foot print. Mind you wiring completely in pipe sounds overkill to me anyway :laughing:


That 4" conduit is spec'd by the TELCO engineers to bring the feeder cable into the building for service. Once past the demarc all telephone wiring is an aftertought, no conduit, no plans, no nothing. You are on your own.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Ty Wrapp said:


> That 4" conduit is spec'd by the TELCO engineers to bring the feeder cable into the building for service. Once past the demarc all telephone wiring is an aftertought, no conduit, no plans, no nothing. You are on your own.


That's the way I like it. Need a phone over there? Okay give me 5 minutes.

** Pull out the appropriate length of phone cable, roll it up into a coil, climb ladder above suspended ceiling, chuck phone cable coil like frisbee. Go to other end, terminate in phone oulet. Collect payment. **

:thumbup:


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