# shallow 3-point saddles



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

HighestB said:


> I need a fool proof way of bending shallow 3-point saddles not using 22.5-45-22.5.. can any explain why the only info regarding 3-point saddles is using these specific angles?
> 
> ex. for a 1 and 1/2in saddle it says to make your out marks 3 3/4in from your center mark... pretty much impossible to make those bends.
> 
> ...


You can't just put two shallow strut in between and run a straight pipe?


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## Mugs (Jan 29, 2013)

Hmm. Walk me through your bending process. Which bend (out of the three in the saddle) are you making first?

While I'm not sure that the info out there uses only these angles, I would hazard a guess and say that these are commonly used angles because they're easier to pull (than say, a 30-60-30).


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

First cut notches in your bender for center of bends at 10, 22, 30, 45, and 60. With 15-30-15 saddles spaced about 4 inches each way from center you can get pretty damn shallow. Never tried a 10-22-10 but it can be done. When you fully understand 'center of bend' measurements and have them marked on your bender, hand bending becomes very very easy

I've put this up before and everybody loves it....haha


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## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

I usually use 15s and 30s 4 to 5 inch away from center for 1/2 or 3/4 any bigger rise I just increase the distance away from center. My jman showed me even how to use 10s and 20s. But if what I'm going over is big might be better off with a 4 point just depends on judgement 3 points can eat up alot of your 360 an old jman said we push wire around here not pull it so go easy on the bends lol


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Mark your center bend. Pretend you're gonna bend a 10° offset for whatever height you want your saddle to be, and measure out that distance from your center mark. Do that on each side. Bend a 22° in the center, and a hair over 10° on either side.

I can't explain why they only use 45s for saddles, probably because it's easy to remember and it works for most applications where you actually gotta measure; I tend to eyeball small saddles.


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## HighestB (Jan 3, 2013)

ya no problem

center bend first at 45.. slide pipe further into bender and flip it, make 2nd bend at 22.5, remove conduit and flip it end over end and make my 3rd bend at 22.5, as per bender guides, etc. 

issue I am having is that I have to pull wire through such sharp angles when I need only a shallow saddle over a 1 1/2in conduit - seems so unnecessary and will be harder to pull through with 2-3 sharp angle saddles in one run.. just a 2nd year apprentice looking for some guidance!


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

If you're having to bend a lot of saddles, I would suggest planning your routes differently


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## Mugs (Jan 29, 2013)

Seems like others have given good advice regarding the 'how' of bending shallower saddles. 

You've got the right bending sequence, too. 

Without knowing exactly what the scenario is, it's a little hard to give advice.
I do wonder whether, if you're having to put 3 saddles in a run, whether you shouldn't be doing the run some other way? Maybe placing strut to allow for a straight run would work? Or planning the run differently? 

What previous J-men have mentioned to me, also, is that while 360 degrees of bend between pullboxes is the maximum, probably not more than 270 is optimal. FWIW.


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## HighestB (Jan 3, 2013)

Unfortunately, this is All surface mount and for a major fire alarm system.. I'm actually not even allowed to say where I'm working for the next 15 months for security reasons. We are to follow the drawings to a tee and the pipe runs are in the prints with little ability to deviate from them.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

There is nothing more awesome than making a series of perfect, matching 3-bend saddles over a piece of conduit that look so nice that even the foremen looks at in awe. 

And then the conduit that was in your way of your run gets removed....


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## Dylanewilliams (May 17, 2013)

Learn to do trigonometry so you know exactly where to start bending, get a magnetic torpedo with an adjustable degree bubble, and bend the conduit on a flat surface so the bubble level is true. Or do it by eye.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

HighestB said:


> I need a fool proof way of bending shallow 3-point saddles not using 22.5-45-22.5.. can any explain why the only info regarding 3-point saddles is using these specific angles?
> 
> ex. for a 1 and 1/2in saddle it says to make your out marks 3 3/4in from your center mark... pretty much impossible to make those bends.
> 
> ...


Practice is key.

Get some pipe and practice,create a backboard of plywood ,then create the obstacle you want to overcome ,such as this.

Install a four inch squire box at six o'clock make a box-offset , install a two inch pipe across your path make a three point saddle around it so that your pipe is not touching the other Pipe but is really close too it , make a 90 degree bend too 3 o'clock to hit another four inch squire box with a box-offset and boom,,,,do that as many times as it takes,,,,change the size of your obstacle to any size to meet what your doing in the field ,,,after a while you'll be able to do it by eye and you will be thrilled at your success ...:thumbup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> If you're having to bend a lot of saddles, I would suggest planning your routes differently


Good advice, saddles suck to pull through.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Roll some Mc cable right over the obstructions, and staple that down with romex staples right up close to the obstruction. The Eighties is over with, it's 2013. 


Pots will be gone from the planet by 2020. Wonder if we will still have to put one jack in at every new dwelling anyway........


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well whats a saddle i thought that was on a horse ?
Sorry but i just could not hold it back gee i feel bad now .:thumbsup:


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> First cut notches in your bender for center of bends at 10, 22, 30, 45, and 60. With 15-30-15 saddles spaced about 4 inches each way from center you can get pretty damn shallow. Never tried a 10-22-10 but it can be done. When you fully understand 'center of bend' measurements and have them marked on your bender, hand bending becomes very very easy
> 
> I've put this up before and everybody loves it....haha
> 
> ...


You just like showing off that picture.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

TGGT said:


> You just like showing off that picture.


No shít


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> First cut notches in your bender for center of bends at 10, 22, 30, 45, and 60. With 15-30-15 saddles spaced about 4 inches each way from center you can get pretty damn shallow. Never tried a 10-22-10 but it can be done. When you fully understand 'center of bend' measurements and have them marked on your bender, hand bending becomes very very easy
> 
> I've put this up before and everybody loves it....haha
> 
> ...


One good thing is that it will straighten out your curly snake.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Good advice, saddles suck to pull through.


It's silly and a waste of time not to go the most direct route from A to B just because there might be a saddle or two.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

http://www.porcupinepress.com/_bending/saddles.htm


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> *It's silly and a waste of time not to go the most direct route from A to B...*


 :whistling2: 


ponyboy said:


>


:jester:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> It's silly and a waste of time not to go the most direct route from A to B just because there might be a saddle or two.


What was silly was making 2 saddles in that picture.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HackWork said:


> What was silly was making 2 saddles in that picture.


The one on the right was done by the jman to show his apprentice how to do it. The one on the left was done by the apprentice.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

HackWork said:


> What was silly was making 2 saddles in that picture.


he hadn't learned the 4th point yet :laughing:


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

I use 10-22-10 all the time for saddles up to 1 1/2". Saddle is a little long. Hell I bent a 1/2" 3 pt the other day using 10-22-10. Doesnt eat up your bends either.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

If you strap the pipe securely 5 foot away on each side of the obstruction, you don't have to bend a saddle at all. It's like throwing PVC into a long sweeping ditch, are you actually gonna bend it or just let the natural bend of the pipe take care of it?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Big John said:


> :whistling2:
> 
> :jester:


Do as I say not as I do


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

HackWork said:


> If you strap the pipe securely 5 foot away on each side of the obstruction, you don't have to bend a saddle at all. It's like throwing PVC into a long sweeping ditch, are you actually gonna bend it or just let the natural bend of the pipe take care of it?


I guess if the conduit that you have to cross over already has the conductors in it, you could just hammer it flat, then you don't have to make any saddles.:jester::jester::jester:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

ponyboy said:


> First cut notches in your bender for center of bends at 10, 22, 30, 45, and 60. With 15-30-15 saddles spaced about 4 inches each way from center you can get pretty damn shallow. Never tried a 10-22-10 but it can be done. When you fully understand 'center of bend' measurements and have them marked on your bender, hand bending becomes very very easy
> 
> I've put this up before and everybody loves it....haha
> 
> ...


If one of my guys put that crap in, I would make them tear it out.


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## HighestB (Jan 3, 2013)

again though, that link only uses 22-45-22... seems rediculous to use such sharp angles. anything smaller then 2in, with those angles is near impossible to bend cleanly. I appreciate all the feedback though!


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Try an app like iBendPipe. You can put in the saddle height you need and compare how much space it requires when using 10-22-10, 15-30-15, 22-45-22, and even 30-60-30. It will calculate your shrink for you too. Given a choice I always use 10-22-10 or 15-30-15 as long as I have room to do it. Pulling through a 22-45-22? Screw that, only if it's strictly necessary.


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## Farmer56 (Aug 17, 2013)

I work in a lot of old dams where there is already a ton of conduit and hydraulic lines. Getting a straight shot at something or hanging it on unitsrut is not possible. One shaft house I work in continually ( because of electronic engineers) twidgets as we call them is only 10 by 8 feet but there is so much pipe in there hydraulic and electrical it blows my mind. I either use connectors and cut and thread my mistakes if its GRC or with EMT I pitch it and start over again if it looks terrible. You might be doing the same thing if its in secured areas which these are. I can sympathize but not advise.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

sparky970 said:


> If one of my guys put that crap in, I would make them tear it out.


Yeah I know we've been over it. If you think I used to go around doing that wherever I had the chance you're smoking dope. It was a one time deal just for the picture.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Yeah I know we've been over it. If you think I used to go around doing that wherever I had the chance you're smoking dope. It was a one time deal just for the picture.


BS, you are a pipehack and are not even close to being the all mighty Piperunner. :whistling2:







:jester: <JK>


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I can't explain why they only use 45s for saddles said:


> Probably because benders only have the center of a 45 marked on them. I wonder why benders don't mark all the centers?


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## phil20 (Apr 30, 2013)

i do them all by eye if u do it enough u will have no problem emt is easy to tweek


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> BS, you are a pipehack and are not even close to being the all mighty Piperunner. :whistling2:
> 
> :jester: <JK>


Lol. If I ever get the boot I will be back as Pipehack!


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## Kuni (Nov 2, 2021)

ponyboy said:


> First cut notches in your bender for center of bends at 10, 22, 30, 45, and 60. With 15-30-15 saddles spaced about 4 inches each way from center you can get pretty damn shallow. Never tried a 10-22-10 but it can be done. When you fully understand 'center of bend' measurements and have them marked on your bender, hand bending becomes very very easy
> 
> I've put this up before and everybody loves it....haha
> 
> ...


Everyone loves that?!?!?!?!?! Why wouldn't you just make a 4 point saddle instead of that monstrosity?


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## metalguitar422 (7 mo ago)

HighestB said:


> I need a fool proof way of bending shallow 3-point saddles not using 22.5-45-22.5.. can any explain why the only info regarding 3-point saddles is using these specific angles? ex. for a 1 and 1/2in saddle it says to make your out marks 3 3/4in from your center mark... pretty much impossible to make those bends. Can anyone help me out? Thanks


 Yes I got you. You can bend a 22.5 , 11,11, saddle. The multiplier is 5 though instead of 2.5 like a standard 45 , 22.5, 22.5 saddle. And also the shrinkage is 3/16 per 2 inches instead. Just bend the two outside bends very slightly past the 10 degree mark. This math works for the push through method or the standard method for saddles.


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

metalguitar422 said:


> Yes I got you. You can bend a 22.5 , 11,11, saddle. The multiplier is 5 though instead of 2.5 like a standard 45 , 22.5, 22.5 saddle. And also the shrinkage is 3/16 per 2 inches instead. Just bend the two outside bends very slightly past the 10 degree mark. This math works for the push through method or the standard method for saddles.


Im sure that 9 years later, he has figured it out


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