# Long distance wire run for gate light



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Price it both way for material and labor. 
Maybe a 
Better solar panel? 
Bigger battery and inverter?

1500' is a lot of wire and ditch.


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## EandIJeff (Oct 21, 2019)

haha I agree. If it where me honestly I would just open that gate by hand and use a flashlight and save a bunch of money but w/e the guy wants ya know?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I'd run some #2 aluminum.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

LED light, and a small battery trickle charger -1A load I bet


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

HackWork said:


> I'd run some #2 aluminum.


you and your dam:crying: aluminum

Well for LED lighting it's probably the right size wire. Not much load


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> Price it both way for material and labor.
> Maybe a
> Better solar panel?
> Bigger battery and inverter?
> ...


Yes Solar 100% agree. 
You could probably buy a Tesla Wall with the money spent on labor and materials for a 1500 ft. run.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Easy said:


> you and your dam:crying: aluminum


The entire grid is using aluminum and steel. The notion that copper on the last 1000th of a percent of the circuit is going to somehow make a difference is outdated.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

HackWork said:


> The entire grid is using aluminum and steel. The notion that copper on the last 1000th of a percent of the circuit is going to somehow make a difference is outdated.


I know.. Just wanted to see your reaction. :smile:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> The entire grid is using aluminum and steel. The notion that copper on the last 1000th of a percent of the circuit is going to somehow make a difference is outdated.


I agree.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

#1 copper for 10A.

For a 1A load you could squeak by with #10 copper.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

joe-nwt said:


> #1 copper for 10A.
> 
> For a 1A load you could squeak by with #10 copper.


I tend to agree. But even with #10 wire it would be expensive.
$82.47 x 9 rolls =$742.23 plus the conduit and labor. 
I just think that solar would work fine. It's California. The sun always shines.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Just add more batteries.

MUCH cheaper.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I might measure the actual demand and figure out if there's a way to cover it just beefing up the solar. 

To transformer or not to transformer? I was wondering how it works out in this case so I ran the southwire calculator and got these results using a 5% voltage drop limit: 

1500' 1800W 120V 1/0 Cu 4.86% 
1500' 1800W 120V 4/0 Al 4.38% 
1500' 1800W 240V #6 Cu 4.14% 
1500' 1800W 240V #4 Al 4.29% 
1500' 1800W 480V #12 Cu 4.07% 
1500' 1800W 480V #8 Al 2.66% 

I am thinking #4 Al at 240V and a transformer might be the best buy.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

splatz said:


> I might measure the actual demand and figure out if there's a way to cover it just beefing up the solar.
> 
> To transformer or not to transformer? I was wondering how it works out in this case so I ran the southwire calculator and got these results using a 5% voltage drop limit:
> 
> ...


I once used two 600-120 V transformers to get power to a sign. If that were the case here:

1500' 1800 W 600 V #12 Cu 2.6%

A 2 kVA 600-120/240 transformer is around $300. So two transformers, #12 copper, and 3/4" conduit I figure around $1650 after tax. How does the #4 aluminum fare?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> How does the #4 aluminum fare?


This is for 3 X 1,500'









You can take some off for downsizing the EGC.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> This is for 3 X 1,500'
> 
> View attachment 137558
> 
> ...


$923 for the wire, $600 for 1" PVC, $200 transformer, plus tax... Looks more costly.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> $923 for the wire, $600 for 1" PVC, $200 transformer, plus tax... Looks more costly.


I wouldn't use a transformer with #4 aluminum, just run the 120V. It's good for 5A with 8% VD. It's just a light and charger.

1" PVC here is $2.88/10' which comes out to $432. I didn't even think about the cost because usually it's a non issue. But at 1,500 feet everything adds up.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> I wouldn't use a transformer with #4 aluminum, just run the 120V. It's good for 5A with 8% VD. It's just a light and charger.
> 
> 1" PVC here is $2.88/10' which comes out to $432. I didn't even think about the cost because usually it's a non issue. But at 1,500 feet everything adds up.


Yeah, just waxing theoretic about getting 10 amps at the gate. I'd probably try to sell them on a better solar solution, including the light.

I get 1" for almost $4/10. Wonder why such a difference.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

A friend of mine has a 12V marine battery at his gate with no charger. In his garage he has marine batteries for various purposes (including the boat). I think he gets about 1.5 - 2 months use out of a charge, and just has wing nuts on the terminals to do a quick swap out.

I'm not suggesting you tell your client to carry batteries 1500 feet, I'm just demonstrating that a typical sliding or swinging gate for single family does not use much power. 

Upsize his solar, get him some more batteries, find an energy efficient light, and be done with it. Unless he's just hell bent on spending $5-10k to have 10 amps out there, in which case, take his money to your bank.

Just curious, how much would you charge just to trench the 1500'? What kind of earth is it there? Beach sand or granite?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I was figuring with the #4 Al you only need one transformer because you already have a 240V source. The same may be true with the 480 depending on how far he has to go for that panel.

Full disclosure, I'd also rather have 120V to ground and possible GFCI for safety. 

I guess if you think about it with the larger wire you also have some extra capacity because if you ever do need more power, you can always step up / down later. With the smaller wire, you're already maxed out. So the #4 Al is a bit of a hedge.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Could probably just put a 100 amp service by the gate for less trouble.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Now I'd never consider direct burial between a house and a garage 100' away, but at 1500', I am thinking it might be worth it, especially if you have some extra capacity in the wire just in case. 



One thing I did not think of at first though ... I would of course at least bring up the option of burying something with it for communications / control. Yeah yeah you can do it with wireless but still. 



And for the pessimist / realist aspect, you will want to budget for a locatable warning tape buried above the wire / pipe.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

At 1500' we'd have someone on a chain trencher and then string some AL cablecon.


It gets done all the time for irrigation pivots at distances much further than 1500'.


If the homeowner wants to save money have him do the trenching.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> Could probably just put a 100 amp service by the gate for less trouble.


We did this all the time for the signs at entrances of shopping malls, and the distance was much less than 1,500'.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

splatz said:


> Now I'd never consider direct burial between a house and a garage 100' away, but at 1500', I am thinking it might be worth it, especially if you have some extra capacity in the wire just in case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I noticed no one is adding pull boxes to their budgets either.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

joe-nwt said:


> I noticed no one is adding pull boxes to their budgets either.



That's true, plus the labor of pulling from handhole to handhole ...


You might lay the cable in the ditch in an hour or so if you're lucky.


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## EandIJeff (Oct 21, 2019)

Wow so many responses! Really appreciate all the replies guys. I have a guy already digging the trench to run communication so was going to drop a cable in there. They want to run direct burial and not mess with conduit that's why I was planning for Direct burial. Because its such a long run I wanted to size it for extra capacity so the guy don't drop a bunch of money and have no option later for an extra light or something small. I do like the idea of pushing bigger solar system cause I don't think he is expecting the cost of this wire run but I plan on having several options to propose to him with estimates. Only thing with the solar is I have never messed with panels although I am sure I can figure it out I am not a solar guy. Could add batteries to increase the AH no problem but if the solar panel is not upgraded it will never charge them all the way right? guess that depends how often he opens and closes that gate. I try to stay away from aluminum wire cause I have seen so many bad things but for the price and equipment its running it may not be a bad option to save a little money. My time in this will be minimal so just laying the wire in the trench probably adding a few JB's then makeup at both ends I don't think my labor cost will add a whole lot compared to material cost. My biggest concern is poor planning and when its all said and done having the voltage drop too much and nothing working after all the money and time spent thats why I was reaching out to you all to make sure my plan didn't sound way off. I used the southwire voltage drop calculator too to try and figure out best wire size and stuff to use. I will still need to ask rancher if he even wants oversizing for future stuff or just bare minimum to get the charger and light going which would drop the price a lot. Thanks again and I really appreciate all the feedback on this. My over all goal is to help the guy get his end results with no problems.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

EandIJeff said:


> I will still need to ask rancher if he even wants oversizing for future stuff or just bare minimum to get the charger and light going which would drop the price a lot. .


If someone is digging the ditch go with the bigger cable, don't even play with the numbers. You are trying to save someone some money but that may not be good. Since the ditch is there don't let wire cost rule the job. Do it right they will be happier with the job.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Lay 2/0 aluminum direct burial.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Lay 2/0 aluminum direct burial.


But... Aluminum! Using aluminum is the root cause of HPV.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

CoolWill said:


> But... Aluminum! Using aluminum is the root cause of HPV.


Not to mention the number of puppies that have died from it :vs_OMG:


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## EandIJeff (Oct 21, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Lay 2/0 aluminum direct burial.




Ok that will give me a 15a circuit at 120v with 4.6% voltage drop. Seems like that might be a good base for anything he wants out at the gate. will work up an estimate on that and also look into the solar but I need to see exactly what existing solar he has then go from there.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

CoolWill said:


> But... Aluminum! Using aluminum is the root cause of HPV.


I agree.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

EandIJeff said:


> Wow so many responses! Really appreciate all the replies guys. I have a guy already digging the trench to run communication so was going to drop a cable in there. They want to run direct burial and not mess with conduit that's why I was planning for Direct burial. Because its such a long run I wanted to size it for extra capacity so the guy don't drop a bunch of money and have no option later for an extra light or something small. I do like the idea of pushing bigger solar system cause I don't think he is expecting the cost of this wire run but I plan on having several options to propose to him with estimates. Only thing with the solar is I have never messed with panels although I am sure I can figure it out I am not a solar guy. Could add batteries to increase the AH no problem but if the solar panel is not upgraded it will never charge them all the way right? guess that depends how often he opens and closes that gate. I try to stay away from aluminum wire cause I have seen so many bad things but for the price and equipment its running it may not be a bad option to save a little money. My time in this will be minimal so just laying the wire in the trench probably adding a few JB's then makeup at both ends I don't think my labor cost will add a whole lot compared to material cost. My biggest concern is poor planning and when its all said and done having the voltage drop too much and nothing working after all the money and time spent thats why I was reaching out to you all to make sure my plan didn't sound way off. I used the southwire voltage drop calculator too to try and figure out best wire size and stuff to use. I will still need to ask rancher if he even wants oversizing for future stuff or just bare minimum to get the charger and light going which would drop the price a lot. Thanks again and I really appreciate all the feedback on this. My over all goal is to help the guy get his end results with no problems.


If the guy is a fanatic about it. Just use a buck-boost transformer to bring the voltage back up. It's not as if you're over loading the conductors. Rather, you're at risk of letting the voltage drift too low. A buck-boost at this scale is not all that expensive. 

This is a special situation, wholly unlike a Service for normal demand.

I think that California is so sunny that the notion of running this cable is absurd. Just slap on more batteries.

Anything beyond his current thinking = get a second Service drop from the Poco.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

HackWork said:


> I wouldn't use a transformer with #4 aluminum, just run the 120V. It's good for 5A with 8% VD. It's just a light and charger.
> 
> 1" PVC here is $2.88/10' which comes out to $432. I didn't even think about the cost because usually it's a non issue. But at 1,500 feet everything adds up.


The trenching by shovel add $10 per hr. for local labor at 5 days labor. :smile:
How deep are we going? Does it cross under driveway? OMG need to supply beer too..


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

telsa said:


> If the guy is a fanatic about it. Just use a buck-boost transformer to bring the voltage back up. It's not as if you're over loading the conductors. Rather, you're at risk of letting the voltage drift too low. A buck-boost at this scale is not all that expensive.
> 
> This is a special situation, wholly unlike a Service for normal demand.
> 
> ...


A buck boost transformer would work. I think a small one is not that much. 5 to 20% voltage increase for one I just looked at.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

Buck and boost transformer for sure


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

I did a run for a 60 ampere pool sub panel 500’ away from the main service. The service lateral I ran had to be 250MCM just for 1/3 of your distance but also a 1/3 of your amperage. Hmm all calculations aside. Common sense says the 250 MCM is what I would run. But I’d double check with the Calc. 

On a run 1500’ away x 4 wires.. uhh I love to use copper wherever I can and don’t run aluminum in houses. But for a long ass feeder I would run that in aluminum for sure. Way cheaper too. And you said this is on a ranch? Do not direct Bury the wire. Just don’t. Drop some 3” PVC in a ditch out to the gate. 

That’s just my $.2


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wow, the snake oil around copper wiring is ludicrous.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Did a house for a guy three years ago . He has a 300 ft long driveway. He put in a post , two full size pv panels, and some kind of non grid tie inverter (probably bought it at West Marine) and get's 120 volts out and runs his motorized slide gate with it. (edit- no connections to the grid) Works great. I never did look at the batteries close , because if I gave it an inch of interest , this guy was the kind to start asking me to do other things with it , which he didn't want to pay enough for to get me interested. The whole house wen't that way- request tons of extra's not on plans, reject my prices to install same. Pain in the ass .


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## EandIJeff (Oct 21, 2019)

So I went and looked at this place yesterday. It’s a stupid long run for a circuit like that. You don’t appreciate it until you see it in person. There are overhead 3 phase power lines running along this driveway all the way to the 120/240 box and another 480v box that’s dedicated to a well pump. I would agree his best bet is to add a meter main out by his gate or upgrade solar panels and batteries. Anyone know how to get and estimate for adding a meter from PGE or is that something the landowner needs to call about cause I assume location and all that stuff plays a part in price since he lives way out in BFE.
The gate has only 1 battery and two small solar panels which might be an easier fix but I have not messed with a lot of solar so then my question is can I just add like 3 batteries to increase the AH but then need more or bigger panels to charge them? I will research this myself but figure some solar guys on here can throw some solar advice my way wouldn’t hurt.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I hope you’re charging for your time on this. One thing that pisses me off is customers wanting me to spend my time for free trying to find out how to do something for them cheaper than it will cost. 

A “free estimate“ is something you give based off of what the customer tells you they want with all the engineering and planning done already. Right now you should be charging for a consultation since you are planning and engineering this work.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

EandIJeff said:


> So I went and looked at this place yesterday. It’s a stupid long run for a circuit like that. You don’t appreciate it until you see it in person. There are overhead 3 phase power lines running along this driveway all the way to the 120/240 box and another 480v box that’s dedicated to a well pump. I would agree his best bet is to add a meter main out by his gate or upgrade solar panels and batteries. Anyone know how to get and estimate for adding a meter from PGE or is that something the landowner needs to call about cause I assume location and all that stuff plays a part in price since he lives way out in BFE.
> The gate has only 1 battery and two small solar panels which might be an easier fix but I have not messed with a lot of solar so then my question is can I just add like 3 batteries to increase the AH but then need more or bigger panels to charge them? I will research this myself but figure some solar guys on here can throw some solar advice my way wouldn’t hurt.


The only thing needed is batteries -- not panels. You're adding batteries because of cloudy stretches during the winter. At all other times, the panels will have excess juice that must be dumped -- especially during the summer solstice.

I'd drop the whole matter back into his lap, as the original installer is sure to under-cut your bid to drop in more batteries.

Just back away. 

Limit your lost time. 

Look up thread at MacMike's experience. :crying:


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

EandIJeff said:


> So I went and looked at this place yesterday. It’s a stupid long run for a circuit like that. You don’t appreciate it until you see it in person. There are overhead 3 phase power lines running along this driveway all the way to the 120/240 box and another 480v box that’s dedicated to a well pump. I would agree his best bet is to add a meter main out by his gate or upgrade solar panels and batteries. Anyone know how to get and estimate for adding a meter from PGE or is that something the landowner needs to call about cause I assume location and all that stuff plays a part in price since he lives way out in BFE.
> The gate has only 1 battery and two small solar panels which might be an easier fix but I have not messed with a lot of solar so then my question is can I just add like 3 batteries to increase the AH but then need more or bigger panels to charge them? I will research this myself but figure some solar guys on here can throw some solar advice my way wouldn’t hurt.


You need to know how many watts the existing solar panel is. Let's say it is 100 watts. At 12 volts, you could get 8 amps. If you have 5 hours of good sun per day, that's 40 Amp-hours. You could only charge a 40 AH battery bank with that panel in a day. Assuming it is completely dead, which you don't want anyway. You only want to drain a battery to 50%. So you really need 80 AH.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

EandIJeff said:


> ... There are overhead 3 phase power lines running along this driveway all the way to...


Inductive lighting!


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

EandIJeff said:


> haha I agree. If it where me honestly I would just open that gate by hand and use a flashlight and save a bunch of money *but w/e the guy wants ya know?*



This guy went with a solar powered gate because of the ridiculously insane costs of providing a 120v circuit 1500 feet from the source. He's well aware of this. This is because of the physics involved. Yes, this guy wants what he wants and that usually means cheap - but you cannot change the laws of physics - and that is exactly what he wants.



All he needs is a better solar array and storage. Maybe he doesn't trust the sun. Maybe he doesn't want to fuss with batteries. Whatever his hangup is, he has no problem getting free quotes and leaving the engineering costs in your lap. You're probably not the first, and you probably won't be the last.


Quickly figure the cost of a trench, conduit, pull boxes, transformers, whatever your scheme - and connections - trench restoration and leave yourself a LOT of wiggle room for what-if's and profit - and drop it in his lap. Take it or leave it. 



He's going to opt to leave it. Leaving the only viable option of a solar solution. And if off-grid solar installations aren't already in your wheelhouse - back off this time vampire and move on towards work that actually pays you an income.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I wouldn't blow off this kind of request. My experience, a fair number of the people with 1500' driveways are willing to spend. 



The best way to work with them is not to engineer it to the penny and tell them take or leave. Best thing is probably to do some quick ball park estimates at the low end and the high end and explain the differences - voltage drop, capacity, future expansioin, direct burial versus conduit, using transformers, etc. No need to give too many details. 



I'd tell him my ball park guess without penciling it out is in the $5,000 to $15,000 range, plus the cost of the trench, depending on whether they go bare minimum or all the options. There are lots of people that will say "Screw it, just add a battery and a panel." There are lots of people that will say "That's not that bad, I figured at least $10,000, draw up the deluxe option."


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

BTW I think there must be a better way to do this rather than either a big wire to defeat voltage drop or running a high voltage and using a transformer. 



The transformer solution has a problem, you wind up with too-high voltage when the load is low. 



What if you got rid of the solar panel and ran just power for a battery charger down there. 



* Voltage drop doesn't matter much, battery chargers take a wide range of input voltage. 

* No spike in output, just a steady trickle


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> The transformer solution has a problem, you wind up with too-high voltage when the load is low.


How does the utility deal with that?


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## EandIJeff (Oct 21, 2019)

Very good points and appreciate all the advice guys. I am going to try to focus on the Solar upgrade I think that’s the best bet. Will keep ya posted and ask more questions If I am unsure about anything!


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

HackWork said:


> How does the utility deal with that?


Huh ?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

dronai said:


> Huh ?


If there is a problem with the voltage being too high when the load is low in a situation where the load only ranges from 1-15 amps, I am curious how the utility deals with those fluctuations in the various parts of the grid when there is a much larger swing in load.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

HackWork said:


> If there is a problem with the voltage being too high when the load is low in a situation where the load only ranges from 1-15 amps, I am curious how the utility deals with those fluctuations in the various parts of the grid when there is a much larger swing in load.


Have you ever seen an unusually high or low voltage on a utility service ?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

dronai said:


> Have you ever seen an unusually high or low voltage on a utility service ?


I don’t know what you mean.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Either do I, I'll go make dinner


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> How does the utility deal with that?





HackWork said:


> If there is a problem with the voltage being too high when the load is low in a situation where the load only ranges from 1-15 amps, I am curious how the utility deals with those fluctuations in the various parts of the grid when there is a much larger swing in load.


Well we do see voltage drops on the subscriber / secondary side - eg the lights dim when the air conditioner comes on. 

I think the system has to be designed so that the voltage drop, which is losses in the line due to wire resistance, is small in relation to the total load on the system. I think with the much higher voltages involved, that's doable. The transformer we're talking about for this driveway is 2-5 times the utilization voltage. The power company distributes at a much higher ratio.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

We run dataloggers 24/7 and we see it get up to 123V around 11pm when they take it down to 119. When it gets back up to 123V they do it again.

Very good power quality here. Frequency is always spot on.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

MikeFL said:


> We run dataloggers 24/7 and we see it get up to 123V around 11pm when they take it down to 119. When it gets back up to 123V they do it again.
> 
> Very good power quality here. Frequency is always spot on.


The frequency on the North American grid can't be anything but spot on. It is kept to within +/- .01Hz, which is about the same as the resolution of a typical DMM. The amount of rotating mass at any given point in time assures minimal disturbances.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Splitting the load up and making it a mwbc will help with voltage drop.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

If there is overhead power going right by the gate I would pop in a 100A service without a second thought. It is going to be cheaper than running 1500' of direct buried cable, and terminating on both ends into something. I don't know what dealing with PGE is like, but if you have the service address and even a meter # for the location you can go through the process. It is crazy to do all that legwork for free, though. When you design/build, you need to get paid for your design time.


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

If I had to run the 1500' of cable, I'd do it at 240V. Possibly add driveway lighting along the way. The latest batch of LED fixtures at work take 120-277V inputs. Many modern chargers will take 240V inputs also.



Going_Commando said:


> If there is overhead power going right by the gate I would pop in a 100A service without a second thought.


I like that idea too!


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## EandIJeff (Oct 21, 2019)

Talked him into adding another service panel within 50' of the gate. He will call and do all the leg work for it so I can just go install everything once it is setup. Makes me feel much better he went that route cause I think it was the best route and gives him way more options for more lighting and w/e he decides he wants out there. the 1500' run is just crazy and I was just not really into doing it because of all the variable with voltage drop etc. It did inspire me to come join this site which was a good thing! lots of smart people from all different sides of electrical field with different experiences which is awesome to be able to tap into with a chat thread. I never claim to know everything about electrical but have met people who do and that's the point you lose as an electrician imo. One of the reasons I love this work is it keeps you one your toes and always new things to learn. Thanks a bunch for the comments guys. As long as he sticks with adding a service for the plan its smooth sailing from here.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Simple fix, no trenches


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Simple fix, no trenches




That just reminds me so much of the computer game I played so much as a kid. Command And Conquer 
They had Tesla towers you could place in your base that would zap any infantry coming close to your base. Power hungry but powerful. 


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

EandIJeff said:


> It did inspire me to come join this site which was a good thing! lots of smart people from all different sides of electrical field with different experiences which is awesome to be able to tap into with a chat thread. One of the reasons I love this work is it keeps you one your toes and always new things to learn. Thanks a bunch for the comments guys.


 Yeah, there’s a lot of sharp guys/gals here. 

Now you gotta stay and help the next guy/gal. :smile:


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Drsparky14 said:


> That just reminds me so much of the computer game I played so much as a kid. Command And Conquer
> They had Tesla towers you could place in your base that would zap any infantry coming close to your base. Power hungry but powerful.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't played a video game in probably 10 years. But that game was so much fun as I grew up. I payed it on my Compaq that was either Windows 3.1 or Windows 95, can't remember exactly.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

HackWork said:


> How does the utility deal with that?


Every PUCO substation I've worked in has load tap changers on the transformers. These transformers have transmission voltage (60KV and higher) on the primaries and distribution voltage (usually somewhere around 12.5KV) on the secondary. 

These have the ability to change the winding taps while energized and under load. They are controlled by a voltage regulator that will initiate a tap change in response to the secondary voltage being either too low or too high for a certain amount of time. 

Of course, they can be manually controlled as well.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I haven't played a video game in probably 10 years. But that game was so much fun as I grew up. I payed it on my Compaq that was either Windows 3.1 or Windows 95, can't remember exactly.




I too played it on a Compaq computer haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

micromind said:


> Every PUCO substation ...
> 
> These have the ability to change the winding taps while energized and under load. They are controlled by a voltage regulator...


I was thinking more about this. If I am following this the utility regulates voltage on the secondary side at the substation, the distribution voltage. (They still have to rely on the high distribution voltage to the subscriber transformers to limit voltage drop.)

That did give me another idea, not better than the simple smart solution of getting a second service. (Run the wire to the closest transformer, duh!) But I think the device that would solve the problem of voltage correction at varying demand would be a power conditioner. 

The only ones I have worked with are the Sola Hevi Duty usually made for sensitive electronics etc., they'd give you a nice solid 15A circuit at 120vac +/-5% at 1500' over #4 Al for like $3,000.00


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