# Thermal camera



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Ive been asked if i would like to take over doing the yearly thermal inspections. 

I have always use the equipment supplied by the company but now i would have to purchase a camera. 
So im looking for a decent camera but the prices are all over the place (they even have add on for a mobile phone). Has anyone got any recommendations on brands they trust or brand i should steer clear off. 

The camera would only be used for electrical equipment. Any pictures taken would be transferred to a report and printed so there's no need for any fancy software options.


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

FLiR brand is reliable, just used mine tonight. It’s about 8 years old and works great every time.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Company trying to save money, asking you to do what was once an expense for them?
These imaging inspections are very time consuming and hard work opening all the energized enclosures. Especially if you have a big plant?
I always hated when I was the one opening all these panels and switches. Got old in a hurry.
But as always they called my name when it came time for the imaging service.
I cringed but had to do as I was told. Glad when I left that place.


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## niteshift (Nov 21, 2007)

John I couldn't have said it better..."I always hated when I was the one opening all these panels and switches. Got old in a hurry".


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

John Valdes said:


> Company trying to save money, asking you to do what was once an expense for them?
> These imaging inspections are very time consuming and hard work opening all the energized enclosures. Especially if you have a big plant?
> I always hated when I was the one opening all these panels and switches. Got old in a hurry.
> But as always they called my name when it came time for the imaging service.
> I cringed but had to do as I was told. Glad when I left that place.


Not at all. Its a company with a generous budget for training and tools asking if i would like to do it rather than having other people on site that i have to babysit. There are advantages for and against using a contractor especially as the camera will go months with out being used. 

On a lot of these jobs we end up removing the panels and opening the doors for the contractor with the camera so we still get the crap part of the job.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

My question is more of business. What is in it for you? You buy and maintain a pricey tool, and they just pay you the same wage as you are there already. It’s a huge win on their part, but a net loss to you. I’m not seeing this unless I’m missing something.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

We have a flir C3 if i remember right. Picked it up for like 350 bucks and it works pretty darn good. They make much nicer ones depending on how much detail you need but this one is good enough for me and I use it all the time. You are going to have to hide it from the mechanics though, they also work great for finding hot bearings etc.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Insurance companies are making businesses pay for thermal scans. We usually make about 1-2 days per job per year. They work but the results require a lot of interpretation.

Two big negatives. First the biggest benefit is picking up on loose connections but the ones we really need to check are bus bars which are typically inaccessible so not checked. Second is unless everything is under significant load it won’t show much until right before failure so again it misses a lot.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

paulengr said:


> Insurance companies are making businesses pay for thermal scans. We usually make about 1-2 days per job per year. They work but the results require a lot of interpretation.
> 
> Two big negatives. First the biggest benefit is picking up on loose connections but the ones we really need to check are bus bars which are typically inaccessible so not checked. Second is unless everything is under significant load it won’t show much until right before failure so again it misses a lot.


Last place i worked we did it ever month on different days of the week in the hope that eventually we will get to scan every piece of equipment running and under load. We also came in at night time to do the main transformers/sub station when the ambient temperature was lower. 

We did spot a lot of problems during the first few years but after that it was more monitoring minor problems and filling in the paper work.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

mburtis said:


> We have a flir C3 if i remember right. Picked it up for like 350 bucks and it works pretty darn good. They make much nicer ones depending on how much detail you need but this one is good enough for me and I use it all the time. You are going to have to hide it from the mechanics though, they also work great for finding hot bearings etc.


That's a handy camera that's great in the field but the pixel count is to low to use on presentations/reports. 

Im probably going to have to look at something a lot more expensive.


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## Flyingsod (Jul 11, 2013)

If you don't have training yet Flir has some free courses online. They teach you all about emissivity and other thermal concepts. You'll need some concrete knowledge to not be a hack. GL

Stick with a thermal imaging manufacturer imo. We had a fluke and while i still love their electric meters they should stick with meters. Their rebranded camera offering was pretty crap. It worked ok but not as well as our Flir and lacked much needed features. Not to mention in the two years we kept it, it had three trips back to Fluke for repairs.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Flyingsod said:


> If you don't have training yet Flir has some free courses online. They teach you all about emissivity and other thermal concepts. You'll need some concrete knowledge to not be a hack. GL
> 
> Stick with a thermal imaging manufacturer imo. We had a fluke and while i still love their electric meters they should stick with meters. Their rebranded camera offering was pretty crap. It worked ok but not as well as our Flir and lacked much needed features. Not to mention in the two years we kept it, it had three trips back to Fluke for repairs.


Originally, Fluke was brand-labeling the Flir cameras, but they bought some other smaller company and ended the deal and went into competition. I talked to some Flir guys at a trade show a couple of years ago, they had nothing good to say about the Fluke cameras. Then I talked to the Fluke guys at the same show, they admitted that the Flir cameras were better...


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## Bourbon County (Aug 19, 2020)

I don't know how ambitious you are, but there are a number of thermal applications outside your job that could make you some fairly easy cash. Most insurance companies require owners of flat roof commercial buildings to do at least 2 thermal scans per year of their roof. You might make some kind of deal with a local home inspector to look for plumbing/condensate leaks, duct leaks, air leakage around doors/windows, Flir has a procedure for measuring insulation values in walls. 

You are correct, a camera with enough resolution to do commercial work will run you between $2-3K, the Flir E8 looks like a good one with 320X240 resolution. The Flir Tools software is free, they offer Flir Tools Plus that runs about $300 that isn't really that much better. If your employer is willing to send you to training that would be great. I went to all 3 levels in about a 5 year span. Mine were all through Infrared Training Center (ITC) which is Flir's training branch, there are others out there but I'm not familiar with them. Flir's in person courses used to be about $2K and depending on where the class is and where you live there could easily be travel expenses too.

Level I course teaches basically how to use the camera and all the settings and is really fun, the next courses get into a lot of physics laws and are helpful but much harder.

What I'm trying to say is that if you are willing to part with the cash to buy a thermal cam and your employer would pay for the training you could potentially make some good money outside your job. It seems like a bit of overkill, but get one with wifi. This will allow for only 1 person having to go into the restricted zone of electrical equipment and the owners/managers can stand at a safe distance and see it on a phone or tablet.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Nice Flir ad. Agreed Fluke is crap. Not a fair comparison. But what about the Flir E6 compared to day the Seek RevealPRO? Aside from 75% cheaper? What about the C series compared to E series?


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## Bourbon County (Aug 19, 2020)

The E6 is a good camera but you are stuck with the lens supplied with it. If that's good for you it would be a good choice. It has 240 X 180 resolution which is the minimum you would want for generating reports for customers. It does have the MSX technology which lets you merge a thermal portion of interest inside an adjustable digital picture. Sometimes it's difficult to tell exactly what you're looking at with just thermal. Most all thermal cams let you take a fairly low resolution digital photo of the object so you can tell what you are looking at. The E53 is considerably more expensive but you can choose your lens or buy another if you need it. Flir requires you to ship your camera back to them and have a new lens calibrated to your camera.

I have one of the little C2 cameras for my personal use and break it out quite often, it's really been helpful. I had my HVAC replaced a couple of years ago and found some places in the duct work that didn't get properly sealed. The thermal images made for an easy warranty claim. Aside from being handy, I don't think I would try to create a report i was charging money for with it. The ones that plug into a phone tend to be a series or two behind on the most current version of phones, I don't know what you have, but check before you buy one. I have seen the Seek advertised, but know nothing about them. Flir invented the thermal camera and in my opinion still lead the pack by a long shot.

If you plan to use it for commercial use, I suggest buying the most you can afford. If you just want to tinker, buy one of the C series or phone plug in models.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Anyone have any thermal camera's they want to donate to me, I will gladly pay shipping. I want to tinker and thats about it. So far I've been able to troubleshoot anything I've needed without one but want to see what I'm missing( or have been missing without one).


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## Flyingsod (Jul 11, 2013)

MotoGP1199 said:


> So far I've been able to troubleshoot anything I've needed without one but want to see what I'm missing( or have been missing without one).


 Well that's just it. You arn't going to really need this for troubleshooting very much. Where this shines is preventing the need for troubleshooting. You'll see problems coming down the pike before they get to the point they cause trouble. If you are in maintenance this is a pretty easy sell to the powers that be, especially one of the cheaper ones available for a few hundred.


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## Bourbon County (Aug 19, 2020)

Flyingsod said:


> Well that's just it. You arn't going to really need this for troubleshooting very much. Where this shines is preventing the need for troubleshooting. You'll see problems coming down the pike before they get to the point they cause trouble. If you are in maintenance this is a pretty easy sell to the powers that be, especially one of the cheaper ones available for a few hundred.


You totally get it. Thermal is one tool in the predictive maintenance box along with vibration analysis, ultrasonic, Oil analysis, motor circuit analysis. The whole idea is to detect potential problems before they become breakdowns. Repairs/replacements can be scheduled to be done on weekends or shutdowns before a breakdown happens resulting in substantial money savings for the owner.

There are some troubleshooting applications like scanning a breaker panel and seeing one phase of a 3 pole breaker being hotter than the other 2. All the thermal will tell you is that there is something that needs further attention and will need to be checked with an ammeter or other means. The thermal will give you a quick indication of where to look and can be done from a safe distance without touching a wire.


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