# 60V on travelers



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

openmind10988 said:


> I was working on a search pit, the one where you can walk and check underneath of vehicles. It had a 3 way, 4 way, and 3 way switches for the lighting circuit. It's feeding 4 flush mount light fixtures and they all have emergency ballasts on them. So none of the switches could turn on the lights and initial finding was that I'm getting around 60V on one of the travelers at any points I checked. I thought I might have a nick on one of the travelers and that would explain the stray voltage I'm getting. Breaking the travelers at every possible points and ohmming them out I'm having no luck finding any shorts so I'm convinced that my travelers are fine but the stray voltage is still there. Any ideas what might be my problem?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


How or to what are you measuring the voltage?
You should have voltage on one the travelers at all times depending on which one the switch is letting pass, unless the circuit is turned off. Just like any switch there will be voltage on one side of the switch. The travelers just carry it between switches and it depends on the position of the switch whether the load comes on or not.

If you are just checking the voltage without a neutral or ground reference you are just getting a phantom voltage.
Do you have the correct voltage at the line side of the initial 3-way switch?


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## openmind415 (May 3, 2015)

I do have correct 120 coming in the initial 3 way. When I measure from initial incoming to the travelers, one travelers would give me near 0V, the other one 60V. When I flip that switch the reading would just be flip vice versa on the travelers.

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## openmind415 (May 3, 2015)

Also on the travelers that has 60V when measures to the incoming hot, it would also give me 60V reading to ground.

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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Electronic 3-way dimmer?


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## openmind415 (May 3, 2015)

480sparky said:


> Electronic 3-way dimmer?


Nope, regular toggle switch

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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

openmind10988 said:


> I do have correct 120 coming in the initial 3 way. When I measure from initial incoming to the travelers, one travelers would give me near 0V, the other one 60V. When I flip that switch the reading would just be flip vice versa on the travelers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk





openmind10988 said:


> Also on the travelers that has 60V when measures to the incoming hot, it would also give me 60V reading to ground.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


You can't measure from the line/hot to the travelers. You would get 0V on one traveler and a strange reading like the 60V on the other traveler. Flip the switch and the readings would reverse.

Go to the last 3-way and measure from one traveler then the other to a neutral or even ground. You should read 120V on the traveler that is letting the voltage pass and zero on the other. Flip the switch on the first 3-way and the readings will reverse.

If you have the correct voltage at the last 3-way then you either have something wrong between the last 3-way and the lights or something wrong with the lights. Could be a lost or loose neutral at the lights.


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## openmind415 (May 3, 2015)

I haven't checked any of the fixtures. If my memory serves me right I think I was getting the same reading on the last 3 way. Getting 120 out to the load side of the last switch and that strange 60V would be sitting on the other travlers. I'm just baffled that none of the lights would come on.

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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

If you're using a digital meter, you're seeing capacitive coupling between the hot and the open traveler. 

If you check with something that applies an actual load, like a solenoid type Wiggy, you'll read 0 volts.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

openmind10988 said:


> I haven't checked any of the fixtures. If my memory serves me right I think I was getting the same reading on the last 3 way. Getting 120 out to the load side of the last switch and that strange 60V would be sitting on the other travlers. I'm just baffled that none of the lights would come on.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


You need to go to the light that is fed from the 3-way that feeds the load.
See if you have 120V there between the hot/black and the neutral at the light. If you have 120V there check your connections. If you had 120V at the last 3-way there has to be something wrong at the light or the line in between.
If it was a single light I might suspect a ballast (if it has one) but since you said multiple lights it has to be either a connection problem, lost/loose neutral, or bad switch. Just start checking and eliminating.


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

openmind10988 said:


> I haven't checked any of the fixtures. If my memory serves me right I think I was getting the same reading on the last 3 way. Getting 120 out to the load side of the last switch and that strange 60V would be sitting on the other travlers. I'm just baffled that none of the lights would come on.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


 
If there is 120V getting to the lights but they don't work then you must have an open neutral. Or all the lights are bad. You need to drop one of the lights and check for 120V to neutral.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Yes that digital volt meter is just going to make it confusing.

I might use solonoid tester, or: take switches loose, start at a 3-way and wirenut the common to one of the travellers, if the other two switches still don't turn on lites, wire nut the respective travellers at the 4-way, if still not on go to the other 3-way and wire nut common to same traveller as other 3-way, etc.

It sounds time consuming, but so is trying to figure out the 60 volt thing (which isn't really there)


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## Jay82304 (May 12, 2015)

I agree definitely check all your neutral connections first before you go through all the other steps


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The odds favor that you've got an open in the neutral -- AND that all of the ballasts have been fried.

BTW Milwaukee, Amprobe, Fluke and Greenlee have tube sniffers that can resolve many of these issues.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/instruments/lighting-testers/2210-20

https://www.energyavenue.com/forms/INV/2934ALT10_User_Manual.pdf

http://en-us.fluke.com/products/electrical-testers/Fluke-1000flt-fluorescent-light-tester.html

http://www.greenlee.com/products/TESTER%40dLAMP-(LT%40d100).html?product_id=16944


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

Get wiggy wid it...


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## openmind415 (May 3, 2015)

telsa said:


> The odds favor that you've got an open in the neutral -- AND that all of the ballasts have been fried.
> 
> BTW Milwaukee, Amprobe, Fluke and Greenlee have tube sniffers that can resolve many of these issues.
> 
> ...


That's pretty cool. All of the fluorescent fixtures I worked on have covers on them so I usually end up carrying a 6ft to open them up. Kinda beats the telescoping rod once I'm already there.


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## openmind415 (May 3, 2015)

So one thing I didn't really mention in my original post is that there's another hot conductor running through the same run (through all the same conduits, boxes, and fixtures). That other hot is feeding the emergency ballasts and GFCI outlet at every fixtures. I opened up one fixture and found it's incoming is tied in to the other constant hot conductor. When I separate them my switches are working fine now and the phantom 60V disappear. I'm assuming both hot are coming from the same phase out of the panel since it didn't go boom. I'm guessing that my phantom voltage is being introduced back from the constant hot that got tied into one of the light fixture. But I also don't understand if that one fixture is already receiving 120V constant why didn't it just stay lit, it would've make me check that fixture first when I see that.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

60V seems high for "stray" voltage but, eliminate it as a source anyway.

I remember years ago chasing 15 volts on a 3 wire circuit. I had just started using a digital meter after decades with a wiggy.  :jester:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

220/221 said:


> ...I remember years ago chasing 15 volts on a 3 wire circuit. I had just started using a digital meter after decades with a wiggy.  :jester:


 Almost as much fun as troubleshooting with a tic tester and pulling my hair out while trying to figure out why the hell wires were energized that were supposed to be dead. Good ol' ghost voltage.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

220/221 said:


> 60V seems high for "stray" voltage but, eliminate it as a source anyway.
> 
> I remember years ago chasing 15 volts on a 3 wire circuit. I had just started using a digital meter after decades with a wiggy.  :jester:


Common as dust when dealing with LONG commercial runs. 

It then goes 'poof' with the slightest load.


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## openmind415 (May 3, 2015)

Big John said:


> Almost as much fun as troubleshooting with a tic tester and pulling my hair out while trying to figure out why the hell wires were energized that were supposed to be dead. Good ol' ghost voltage.


Haha I got a co worker who hates that thing. I use them all the time, but I don't rely on them for troubleshooting purposes. Mostly just a quick check if a circuit is dead or not.

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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

220/221 said:


> 60V seems high for "stray" voltage but, eliminate it as a source anyway. I remember years ago chasing 15 volts on a 3 wire circuit. I had just started using a digital meter after decades with a wiggy.  :jester:


42 was the average I get on older 208/120 systems were many conductors share a raceway or chase. 
I see this mostly in the mechanical rooms and less as the runs split to the rest of the building.


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