# Anybody else have problems with this useful article?



## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

Whenever possible, motor leads should be connected using approved mechanical fasteners because a wire nuts are more susceptible to vibration and might vibrate loose. 

Wire nuts are only allowed on connections using wire up to 10 gauge wire. 
Rated ampacity for 10 gauge wire is 30 amps which equates to about a 10 horsepower motor . 
So, a general rule is to not to use wire nuts on any motor 10 horsepower or greater. 
I personally try to avoid using wire nuts on any motor ONE horsepower or greater. I prefer to use the insulated set-screw type electrical connectors whenever possible. Refer to NEC National Electric Code number 110.14(B) for wire-nut connection information.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Introyble said:


> Not my spelling, just a copy and paste.


A link would be nice.


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

K2500 said:


> A link would be nice.


 
http://www.dr-fix-it.com/ttt/10028.html

BTW, How many 10hp motors you ever seen pull 30 amps? (aside from sizing via HP like you said)


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Introyble said:


> http://www.dr-fix-it.com/ttt/10028.html
> 
> BTW, How many 10hp motors you ever seen pull 30 amps? (aside from sizing via HP like you said)


I never said to size from HP. A 10hp motor could pull any where from 14A-140A. Assuming full load.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I've never seen anything about a wirenut being rated in amps. If a wirenut is being used to carry current, it's being used wrong. 

I've never been shy about using wire nuts to connect motors. I've never seen them present a problem. I think it comes from the same "wisdom" that says transformers should be flex connected due to vibration. :wacko:

-John


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

Guess I was think about typical industrial motors, not those 10 hp 120vac motors I use every day


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Wirenuts are rated for conductor size. period. Every factory I have worked in has had dozens of motors from fractional sizes up to 150hp plus. Smaller motors, wirenuts no problem. bigger motors, I use Burndy connectors.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Introyble said:


> Guess I was think about typical industrial motors, not those 10 hp 120vac motors I use every day


FLA for a 480v 10Hp is about 14A. If it's pulling 30, you've got a problem.


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

K2500 said:


> I never said to size from HP. A 10hp motor could pull any where from 14A-140A. Assuming full load.


Yes, u said that already lmao


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I've always twisted then soldered then put on the wirenut, that's not vibrating loose.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I put in some Sterling Electric motors that had hi-temp nickel ring terminals pre-crimped on the motor leads already, and already nut/bolted for high voltage. I couldn't bring myself to cut them off, so I just went with the flow. To me, it doesn't matter a damn.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I've always twisted then soldered then put on the wirenut, that's not vibrating loose.


 But do you tape the wirenut???!??!??

-John


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> But do you tape the wirenut?????
> 
> -John


No, I just crank it on there and leave it to fend for itself tape-less.


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

A lot of the euro stuff has terminal blocks already mounted in the pot to terminate to. Crimp on stake ons, land them on the terminal, bada-bing!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Big John said:


> But do you tape the wirenut???!??!??
> 
> -John


Some people swear by that. I dunno. 

Motors in washdown areas and motors that are installed outdoors... all taping the wirenut does is give moisture longer contact time inside the wire nut to start corroding things. I just arrange the conductors inside the peckerhead with the cup pointed down so they can't fill with water and call it a day.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Some people swear by that. I dunno.
> 
> Motors in washdown areas and motors that are installed outdoors... all taping the wirenut does is give moisture longer contact time inside the wire nut to start corroding things. I just arrange the conductors inside the peckerhead with the cup pointed down so they can't fill with water and call it a day.


 I was being sarcastic, because I agree. My opinion is that if you've gotta tape the wire nut, then it's the wrong connector to use in that application. As far as water goes, I shoot 'em full of dielectric grease to keep moisture off the conductors.

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

K2500 said:


> Yes, the spelling of article, and the sizing of wire by horsepower.


But the NEC requires we size the conductors by HP.


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## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

In our plant, wirenuts could be used for fractional motors up to 5 hp. after that we always used the appropriate sized Ring Terminal for the size of the conductor going to the motor. We Never used any set screw or burndy lug style connectors.
And yes we taped the wirenuts for a couple of reasons- one was if a strand of that stranded conductor was sticking out a little-no worry about it touching the metal -and it would help keep water out if the motor was washed down. We always bend the connections up in the peckerhead which also helps.
Lastly ,we always taped the ring terminal connections with the firstlayer of tape-sticky side out-so it was easy when it came to taking it apart. Then we ALWAYS used Raychem heat shrink motor kits with the waterproof goop in them for all the connections. This was another reason for taping the connection first-It is much easier for the next guy !!


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

mrmike said:


> In our plant, wirenuts could be used for ( fractional) motors up to 5 hp. after that we always used the appropriate sized Ring Terminal for the size of the conductor going to the motor. We Never used any set screw or burndy lug style connectors.
> And yes we taped the wirenuts for a couple of reasons- one was if a strand of that stranded conductor was sticking out a little-no worry about it touching the metal -and it would help keep water out if the motor was washed down. We always bend the connections up in the peckerhead which also helps.
> Lastly ,we always taped the ring terminal connections with the firstlayer of tape-sticky side out-so it was easy when it came to taking it apart. Then we ALWAYS used Raychem heat shrink motor kits with the waterproof goop in them for all the connections. This was another reason for taping the connection first-It is much easier for the next guy !!



Not trying to be picky.......but the term (fractional) horsepower motors.

I always thought, that meant motors *less* than 1 horsepower.

Please correct me if I am wrong!


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## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Not trying to be picky.......but the term (fractional) horsepower motors.
> 
> I always thought, that meant motors *less* than 1 horsepower.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong!


 
You are correct but I am "you know what I mean kind of guy". I don't regard little discrepencies that sometimes are blown right up on Forums like this and actually turns into a spectacle instead of about the post. My Post is a result a Lot of years experience in industry wiring up hundreds of motors, and I am here to help & to learn...........................


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

mrmike said:


> You are correct but I am "you know what I mean kind of guy". I don't regard little discrepencies that sometimes are blown right up on Forums like this and actually turns into a spectacle instead of about the post. My Post is a result a Lot of years experience in industry wiring up hundreds of motors, and I am here to help & to learn...........................




I totally agree, but not everyone on this forum, is as smart as you and 

me!!! You know what I mean!!!:laughing:

I try to use the correct terminology. It helps to keep confusion down.

Like I said, I was not trying to be picky.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I tape my wirenuts when I wire motors just in case vibration could cause them to loosen somehow. Makes me feel better. This is on larger motors. I prefer to follow the NEC when it comes to nuts and motors but sometimes your employer doesn't give you a choice. His admin license on the line anyways.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> But the NEC requires we size the conductors by HP.


By HP alone?...


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

K2500 said:


> By HP alone?...


Yep, that's actually true.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Yep, that's actually true.


I don't follow.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

K2500 said:


> I don't follow.


You base conductor size off the calculated amperage that you determine from table 430.248. Table 430.248 is based off motor horsepower.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> You base conductor size off the calculated amperage that you determine from table 430.248. Table 430.248 is based off motor horsepower.


If it takes into account V or A, than it's not sized by HP alone.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

It also looks like I was moderated....


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> I've always twisted then soldered then put on the wirenut, that's not vibrating loose.


Joke, right? Solder?



MDShunk said:


> I put in some Sterling Electric motors that had hi-temp nickel ring terminals pre-crimped on the motor leads already, and already nut/bolted for high voltage. I couldn't bring myself to cut them off, so I just went with the flow. To me, it doesn't matter a damn.


I always cut them off on smaller motors and use wire nuts. Ring terminals IMO are for larger frames.
But I always hesitated before finally just snipping them off. 

Were those stainless wash down Sterling motors? I used to rep Sterling.


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