# 7500 sq ft new house project



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I am lost with your question.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I am lost with your question.


how much should he charge to wire a 7500 sq foot house:whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

So F&F, you are considering giving a price on a 7500 sq/ft house and you do not even know how to bid it? 

Also, you say there is an elaborate landscape lighting system in place? Yet it is only fed with one separate 20A "service"? Is this a typo? Do you mean 200A service?

Jobs like this I bid on a sliding scale. Certain openings get certain prices, they are not all the same.

What part of NY are you in?
Do you have any idea what your overhead is?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'd bid it at $6 million just to stay on the safe side.


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

Peter D said:


> I'd bid it at $6 million just to stay on the safe side.


What???? Are you crazy? You're forgetting the elaborate landscape lighting system is already installed. Please, I'd cut them a deal and bid 3.5 million.


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

Kevin J said:


> What???? Are you crazy? You're forgetting the elaborate landscape lighting system is already installed. Please, I'd cut them a deal and bid 3.5 million.


6 million?! 3.5 million?! man should bid that house at $25,000. I bet you will get for being the lowest bidder.


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## F & F Electric (Jun 9, 2009)

*Reply*

It's not that I don't know how to bid, its just that i have not done one on this scale before. And yes the 20amp is a typo its a 200amp. The current service is a self contained 320 meter cabinet feeding an outside 200amp panel and another inside the sturture now (a 150). Oh yeah for got to mention they also have two of those really fancy outdoor trailers (bathroom) that have 4-30amp twist lock plugs on them and the second is a kitchen trailer with 3-50amp twist lock plugs on it. They have way to much money and like to spend it. (keeps me busy).
I the past i have typically bid here in western NY a typical house at around $48 an opening (its pretty close). This place however has everything you can think of in it. Just some guidance is what i am looking for and thanks for the responses.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

That service isn't near large enough. 

You will have to just add up what you think everything will cost, I assume you have prints and specs, so it shouldn't be too hard, just take time.


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## F & F Electric (Jun 9, 2009)

*Size*

Yes i agree that this service is too small as they have blown the main line transformer fuse once already (utility side). The other issue i have with this particular customer is he is very good with electric stuff too. He is actually requesting a 1000amp service with full gen backup. Will be feed UG from a new Primary transformer vault. I am planning on running two 4" conduits to the CT meter cabinet with Parelell 750's. Out of the CT cabinet into a 1000amp transfer switch and then into a wire way to feed the subsuqent panels. Thanks for the input thus far for all.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

F & F Electric said:


> Yes i agree that this service is too small as they have blown the main line transformer fuse once already (utility side). The other issue i have with this particular customer is he is very good with electric stuff too. He is actually requesting a 1000amp service with full gen backup. Will be feed UG from a new Primary transformer vault. I am planning on running two 4" conduits to the CT meter cabinet with Parelell 750's. Out of the CT cabinet into a 1000amp transfer switch and then into a wire way to feed the subsuqent panels. Thanks for the input thus far for all.


Parallel 750s are overkill for 1000 amp. And 1000 is overkill for 7500sq ft and some outside lighting. Parallel 500's would work, of course I am using the CEC for that. 
Without knowing exact loads I still can not see needing more then 600. 
A gen set for 1000 amp is probably $100,000 or more all said and done. 
7500 sq ft is big, but not that big. 

What caused the line fuse to go? its my understandign those really only go with fault type currents.


EDIT, just reread what you posted about the service, so he has a 320 amp service right now? 150 to the house and 200 to the lights? 
If his lights are using anywhere near 200 amps he would save a huge amount of money by putting in higher efficiency lights.

EDIT2, I think you might be in over your head. you can not bid a job like this per opening at all. You need to bid it like a commercial job.


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## F & F Electric (Jun 9, 2009)

*Reply*



Jeff000 said:


> What caused the line fuse to go? its my understandign those really only go with fault type currents.


 The power company said it was an Overload on the fuse size on the original transformer. So they up'd the size and have not had an issue yet.
i know the size is overkill but that is what he wants. He also requested the 750's and there is no reasoning with him. Then gen set is going to be a 300kw Generac and is more like $120K not to mention the switch. I think the reason for such a large service is there is a potential for more landsape lighting (this is CAST stuff very highend). There are already 30 transformers on the property with a possiblity of another 10 more. These are the large stainless steel style that run large quantities of lights.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

F & F Electric said:


> The power company said it was an Overload on the fuse size on the original transformer. So they up'd the size and have not had an issue yet.
> i know the size is overkill but that is what he wants. He also requested the 750's and there is no reasoning with him. Then gen set is going to be a 300kw Generac and is more like $120K not to mention the switch. I think the reason for such a large service is there is a potential for more landsape lighting (this is CAST stuff very highend). There are already 30 transformers on the property with a possiblity of another 10 more. These are the large stainless steel style that run large quantities of lights.


up'ed the size of the fuse? that doesn't sound like a poco to me. Their fuses are not an overload though, they are over current fuses. And they are generally much larger then service, they protect the line side from fault over current on the load side, the house service would be more of the over current protection.

Guy sounds like a nut job. 
Bid to spec sheet is what I would do. 
For how much this guy is spec'ing out he didn't plan very well, if he has that much lighting he should have went 347/600 for the lighting service and then 120-208 service to his house. 

(I dont know if you guys use 347/600 in the states as much as we do here, well in Alberta anyways, 408v or whatever you use would be better still)


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## F & F Electric (Jun 9, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> (I dont know if you guys use 347/600 in the states as much as we do here, well in Alberta anyways, 408v or whatever you use would be better still)


We use typicall voltages of 120/240V single phase, 120/208 3 phase, 120/240 3 phase and 480v 3-phase. This will be a 120/240v three phase setup here at this place. 
And no not to much thought has been put into anything electrical because all they seem to be doing is adding stuff without thinking of the loads. i told them upfront the 320 is to small even for what they have now not to mention adding a kitchen trailer that takes 150amps by itself.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

F & F Electric said:


> We use typicall voltages of 120/240V single phase, 120/208 3 phase, 120/240 3 phase and 480v 3-phase. This will be a 120/240v three phase setup here at this place.
> And no not to much thought has been put into anything electrical because all they seem to be doing is adding stuff without thinking of the loads. i told them upfront the 320 is to small even for what they have now not to mention adding a kitchen trailer that takes 150amps by itself.


The electrical is a mess in my mind. 
Are you just adding loads directly up? the NEC must have demand factors when calculating service size.


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## F & F Electric (Jun 9, 2009)

*Reply*

Thsi entire compound he owns is a messed up job that some drunken electrician came in and ran all sorts of crap all over the place and never labeled nor installed anything correctly. I am pretty confident i will be bidding this like a commercial building and i am pretty confident at the cost i have gattherd at this point in time. I am now in talks with the media guy for the video room. This is going to be classified as a smart house too. Thanks for the input by the way. ..oh yeah the power company told me from (a lineman) said the service draw (amps) was to much for the internal breaker on the transformer. When the service was upgraded to the 320 the tank never was at the street. All this was running on a 10kva tank. They upped it to a 37.5kva no problems since.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Sounds like a good $$$$ job for you if the owner wants your services. From your description it is going to be one change after another. Maybe you can get him to go t&m but he might be set on getting a price. You could probably throw the price out the window within 2 weeks of starting though. We are in the middle of a 2000sf addition that had to be bid. By the 5th day, I told the GC the bid no longer was good and we were going t&m. If he wants 750's, and 1000a service and a $120,000 gen, and is willing to pay then....... good for you.
By the way, I'm with the other guys on this, no way to bid a house like this per opening!


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## starsailor803 (Jun 10, 2009)

F & F Electric said:


> We use typicall voltages of 120/240V single phase, 120/208 3 phase, 120/240 3 phase and 480v 3-phase. *This will be a 120/240v three phase setup here at this place. *
> And no not to much thought has been put into anything electrical because all they seem to be doing is adding stuff without thinking of the loads. i told them upfront the 320 is to small even for what they have now not to mention adding a kitchen trailer that takes 150amps by itself.


Why do they need a three phase with a high leg for residential? Sure you reduce some current on heavier equipment but won't you be wasting a lot of breaker spaces?


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## F & F Electric (Jun 9, 2009)

*reply*



starsailor803 said:


> Why do they need a three phase with a high leg for residential? Sure you reduce some current on heavier equipment but won't you be wasting a lot of breaker spaces?


I think the biggest reason is that the gen set he wants is only available in three phase configuration. Other than that there is no reason why. 

To answer the questions on bidding i settled the debate with the guy and he agreed on t&m for the house and i am bidding the service and genset install seperatly. Thanks for the help i think this should be a pretty good money job when its all said and done.

In case anyone was wondering those trailers they have are the ones the PGA uses for events and they have 3 total...the company is called JAG and is on the net...check them out..


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## GlennB (Feb 6, 2010)

Jeff000 said:


> up'ed the size of the fuse? that doesn't sound like a poco to me. Their fuses are not an overload though, they are over current fuses. And they are generally much larger then service, they protect the line side from fault over current on the load side, the house service would be more of the over current protection.
> 
> Guy sounds like a nut job.
> Bid to spec sheet is what I would do.
> ...


"220 - 221 whatever it takes"

120/240V single phase for resi.


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## Geoff C (May 26, 2010)

If it's already a mess, and he wants you to do it, T&M baby!


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

T & M you won't lose money but on something like this a bid could make you a LOT of money.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)




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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

The last large house I have done in Wisconsin it was a 6100 Sq Feet and the service size I have to install is 600 amp 208Y120 service and I asked the POCO if can run straght single phase load they say no due they have triphase supply right next to that house so I took a golden oppertnty to use it due there were no upcharge on triphase supply on that large { single phase like that large will need at least 800 amp and it will have upcharge for non standard transfomer set up }

Yeah ., I know it is lateral service,

Have 3 X 200 amp triphase panels plus 2 X 100 amp triphase subpanels 

Total cost for set up this house sans generator was 26,000 USD { that was way back early 1990's price } down the road late 90's have to installed a standby generator that set back a other 30,000 USD for it.

But with modern price it will be at least 3X what my old price I listed.

Merci.
Marc


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Pulling a number out of my hat....................................... PRESTO! $162,375.34


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