# EC install forms, rebar and pour concrete



## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Housekeeping/equipment pads, yes. Gen pads, no. But the gens we typically work with are 500+KW, I'd say.

Often times, on bigger projects, we've set the form boards up where needed for housekeeping pads and the like. Then had the concrete subs that were on site pour and finish it for us when they had some extra mud.

There is a lot less room for error, when you form it yourselves.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

Around here we do our own pads on mixed jobs, but the GC does them on all union jobs. Duct bank we form ourselves, but the rebar is GC.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Your specialty is electric, not concrete, stay in your lane...JMO


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I've always done my own stuff but on a Union job it depends on the site.

Many places the GC labor handles the rebar and large gen set slabs.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Mine are small so I try to stick with pre made pads where possible. There are getting to be larger pre made ones available these days.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

We do quite a bit of site related electrical work and do our own concrete work, excavation, diamond cutting etc. We have both labors and operators on staff. Setting rods and pouring a square pad is not rocket science. 

I read that order...The Florida is overreaching...you are the responsible contractor of record..... whether you sub contract it or do it yourself...its concrete work....it gets inspected...as long as its up to spec and code *its part of the job *....its really non of their business who does it when the BUCK STOPS WITH YOU.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We have quite a few 5' X 16' and maybe a only one or two that are something like 10' X 20' due to needing a walkway around them.
It's very second nature for us to prepare the site, form them up and tie the steel and pour concrete. 
It costs quite a bit to have electricians do the work but, we are more in control of the schedule if we can just handle it during the project.

One of the more out of scope but a nice CO was to bring in 10 -5 yard trucks of road rock to make a 40' haul road in a mud pit.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Silly liberal, electricians don't do grunt work. :no:


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

360max said:


> Your specialty is electric, not concrete, stay in your lane...JMO



Total union mentality.


That's too bad. There's a reason our work is 98% repeat customers. We don't fret over the little things, they just get done. No matter who does it.


We fabricate, weld, set poles, dig ditches, pour concrete, it all pays the same to us. If the customer wants to pay electrician rates for all these other tasks and we have the time to do it, we do. At least I know it gets done, when it needs to get done. And correctly.



If concrete guys don't care for it, they should of chosen a trade that requires licensing, like electrical. 



Everyone makes their own life choices...


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

Right on cow, I have also pulled at least a dozen calves from their mothers when no one else was around. All in a days work.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Galt said:


> Right on cow, I have also pulled at least a dozen calves from their mothers when no one else was around. All in a days work.



My folks have a dairy, so I did a lot of that when I was younger.


Now I work for a shop that does a ton of work for huge dairies, but I have yet to pull a calf for one of our customers!!:biggrin:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Cow said:


> Total union mentality.


You're right, it is, and that's not the worst thing either. I'm non-union in a heavily unionized state and we simply don't think that way even in the non-union sector. As a rule, electricians don't running digging equipment, finish concrete or do all kinds of other jobs especially in the commercial sector. Certainly in residential jobs electricians will dig ditches an so forth but most of the time even that is subbed out.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

MTW said:


> You're right, it is, and that's not the worst thing either. I'm non-union in a heavily unionized state and we simply don't think that way even in the non-union sector. As a rule, electricians don't running digging equipment, finish concrete or do all kinds of other jobs especially in the commercial sector. Certainly in residential jobs electricians will dig ditches an so forth but most of the time even that is subbed out.



Our shop does probably 90% ag, so obviously that means rural America. Not downtown LA or NYC where there is a big presence for all trades. 



It gives the guys some variety when these things come up, which I think they enjoy every once in a while.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Cow said:


> Total union mentality.
> 
> 
> That's too bad. There's a reason our work is 98% repeat customers. We don't fret over the little things, they just get done. No matter who does it.
> ...


Hold on there.
We just bought and put a boat in the water so that one of our UNION electricians can patch concrete spalling under and around 15 100' piers for a good customer of ours.
Get er done!


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Cow said:


> 360max said:
> 
> 
> > Your specialty is electric, not concrete, stay in your lane...JMO
> ...


your correct, total union mentality, hire the best qualified for the task at hand. Just because you have an electrical license doesn’t make you a professional welder or a professional mason, and the results will show that in most cases .


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

360max said:


> your correct, total union mentality, hire the best qualified for the task at hand. Just because you have an electrical license doesn’t make you a professional welder or a professional mason, and the results will show that in most cases .


If we didn't claim our work, the iron workers would be tying our pipe in concrete slabs.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

360max said:


> your correct, total union mentality, hire the best qualified for the task at hand. Just because you have an electrical license doesn’t make you a professional welder or a professional mason, and the results will show that in most cases .



I'm sorry that you think only a concrete tradesman can pour electrical equipment housekeeping pads. Or run an excavator to dig a ditch. Or weld frames to support electrical gear. Or....


Did I say I was welding structural steel? No.
Building a block wall? No.


Our crew, and others on here, are able to be good at more than one thing, while also knowing our limits.



You're so unionized, you can't help it. I think it's part of the brainwashing....sometimes you have to think for yourself.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Cow said:


> 360max said:
> 
> 
> > your correct, total union mentality, hire the best qualified for the task at hand. Just because you have an electrical license doesn’t make you a professional welder or a professional mason, and the results will show that in most cases .
> ...


or I have seen the results of MY masonry skills 😂


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If it's related to my work and I can do it, I'd just as soon do it if it makes life simpler. Like drywall patching for example, someone else can do it better and cheaper than me. But, if it's not much work, and it doesn't need to be top notch, I just do it. Some of the places I work, my not so hot drywall work is still well above the general standard for the facility  

If it's completely unrelated to my work, and I can do it better, or nobody else wants to do it, I'll do it. There are a lot of kind of oddball projects that fall into this category and in some cases there's real money there. 

I will do just about what ever, as long as it's legal, we can agree on a price, *and it's insured.* 

You can get into some interesting conversations about what union people consider "their work." If they have an agreement with a contractor, then I can respect that; I wouldn't want to enter into an agreement with someone that violated their union agreement, what's to say they wouldn't violate mine? 

But some full on kool aid drinking union members seem to think that their club's agreement is with God himself, and they are *entitled* to all work in a certain category, like they are the CHOSEN PEOPLE of the trade - to the exclusion of non-members of their club - LOL. 

I don't discuss it ... it's like discussing Santa Claus with a five year old. I'll win the argument but who you going to brag to about that?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

360max said:


> your correct, total union mentality, hire the best qualified for the task at hand. *Just because you have an electrical license doesn’t make you a professional welder or a professional mason*, and the results will show that in most cases .


Just because you have an electrical license, it doesn't mean you can't have skills in other trades such as welding or masonry.



360max said:


> or I have seen the results of MY masonry skills 😂


I am sure that the results of your masonry work is no worse than your electrical work. Most people here don't consider you an electrician so you have no say in this conversation.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Southeast Power said:


> This might be a good question for MikeFL but, I would like to hear from other electricians and contractors on how you handle concrete work incidental to electrical work.
> Very specifically, We always pour our own concrete in duct banks.
> We seem to hit a bottle neck and end up waiting for a third party to form up, set steel and pour concrete.
> We are certainly no stranger to tying steel and form work on generator slabs for government work outside the jurisdiction of typical municipal AHJ projects.
> ...


A good analogy is the plumber adding a vent stack and the boot up on the roof. Does he need to subcontract a roofing contractor? Of course not. Plumber probably makes it more watertight than the roofer anyway.

If you pour your own pad, you're going to have a better pad to work with than if someone who is not going to work on that slab pours it. You still have to comply with building code which references ACI 318. You still have to comply with floodplain regulations and all other regulations which apply to the project. As a building official I would have no problem issuing a generator permit and having a foundation inspection as one of the inspections under that permit so you don't need a separate permit for concrete.

Keep in mind I've been out of the business for a while and I can't tell you what the rules are today.

If that genset were going to sit on the roof of a highrise level 1 trauma center and the generator foundation was also a helipad on the roof you're damned sure not doing structural work up there. But the typical genset foundation outside a building on or near grade? No problem.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Cow said:


> *Total union mentality.*
> 
> 
> That's too bad. There's a reason our work is 98% repeat customers. We don't fret over the little things, they just get done. No matter who does it.
> ...


That really isn't a total Union mentality.

The owners of a company decide what work they want their labor force to handle in house.

I've been with a few very large union shops and several of them did as much as possible in house. 

Excavation, welding, form work, and pouring concrete were common place in most.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That really isn't a total Union mentality.
> 
> The owners of a company decide what work they want their labor force to handle in house.
> 
> ...


Not union shops so much as union members. On union jobs, I have had the carpenters get pissy about stuff like adding blocking in walls so I have something to mount equipment to.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> Not union shops so much as union members. On union jobs, I have had the carpenters get pissy about stuff like adding blocking in walls so I have something to mount equipment to.


Oh I've had the "you think it takes a genius to cut a piece of 2x lumber?" with more than a couple carpentry foreman when they give you the "just mark out the location" talk.

My first large Union shop encompassed several businesses under the same roof, a metal fab shop, HVAC/R shop, electrical shop, plumbing/mechanical shop, and drink dispensing equipment shop. All the guys worked with the various install crews as needed at the discretion of the owners.. 

During slow times I was often sent to the owners homes and those of their friends to do all kinds of work. Never minded the change of pace and avoiding being laid off. That company never laid off service guys or foreman in any shop. It built strong company loyalty.


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