# Is my union doing something illegal?



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

These question should be asked directly to your JATC director. And in a much less offensive way.

Ask why your number doesn't change even when jobs are taken. In my local that happens when people take short calls, they retain their number on the list until they work X amount of hours and it's no longer a short call.

Accusing your union of illegal activity and wanting your dues money back is the exact opposite of what I want in a "brother". Find out the facts first.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I'm just frustrated because I'm not getting any return on my investment by paying dues into something that's of no positive benefit to me. There's no JATC here so there's only a BA. 

Taking my dues and not giving me any work is the exact opposite of what I would call "union". Shouldn't there be someone there looking out for my best interests? aka, finding me work?

Don't get me wrong, I think union dues are a great benefit to working electricians, but not for apprentices who have never worked a day with the local. Not trying to bash, just wondering why my local is allowed to do this, and yes I'm going to go in there tomorrow and stay there until I get a satisfactory answer.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

shockme123 said:


> Taking my dues and not giving me any work is the exact opposite of what I would call "union".


 Then you clearly don't know what the union is all about. 



> Shouldn't there be someone there looking out for my best interests? aka, finding me work?


And what happens when there is no work to find, do you want them to break out the magical pixie dust?

You are talking to a man who watched as many of his brothers lost their houses, life savings, retirement funds, and children's college funds while being out of work for 2+ years. The only reason the union is still around and the only reason why the union accomplished so much is because of the brothers before you who stuck it out thru much harder times. You don't seem like you are willing to do that, so it's time you cut your losses and quit.

As for your dues, that money went into the work that the union did for you. There is NO GUARANTEE THAT THERE WILL BE WORK. No one in the world could guarantee that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

A fun fact about IBEW dues:

Look at the back of your dues receipt, it will show you exactly where the money is going. A lot of the money goes to the international, not your local union. The money that does go to your union generally goes to outside expenses.

In my local we pay (around) $150 every quarter and only $12.60 of that goes to paying dues to my local. The $44 goes towards a retirement and death fund that we have and the rest to the IO.

The dues money that actually pays for the operation of the union is taken out of your paycheck, that's called working dues, and you haven't paid a cent yet, so you shouldn't be complaining. The dues that you have paid up until now are just the base dues to be a member of the club.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Our hall has a job line for journeymen.
If we need apprentices, we call the hall, let the BA know we need people and he lets the apprentiship director know what we need as far as skill level.

I'm not saying you should try to jump your position but, you should go hang out at the hall a bit, see if the entertainment committee needs help, get involved. Ask if a contractor needs a driver or shop help.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> Our hall has a job line for journeymen.
> If we need apprentices, we call the hall, let the BA know we need people and he lets the apprentiship director know what we need as far as skill level.
> 
> I'm not saying you should try to jump your position but, you should go hang out at the hall a bit, see if the entertainment committee needs help, get involved. Ask if a contractor needs a driver or shop help.


If you blend into the woodwork and aren't known no one is going to ask for you.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Your real problem is the local construction economy in your neck of the woods is lousy.

The fellows right ahead of you and right behind you are singing the same blues.

The best advice was given immediately above: start networking within your local.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If you blend into the woodwork and aren't known no one is going to ask for you.


...there is a list , lowest number get job, your seem to be describing the old boys network.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

360max said:


> ...there is a list , lowest number get job, your seem to be describing the old boys network.


Like nobody in you local ever got a call like that.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I'm starting school today so I'll be a 3rd year by the time I finish. Something tells me it's probably no better for a 3rd year on the waiting list than a 2nd year. Just have to wait and see I guess.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Guys that sit on the bench a long time aren't always there just because of lack of jobs.....

Judging by your posts I am leaning towards there being a reason...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Jhellwig said:


> Guys that sit on the bench a long time aren't always there just because of lack of jobs.....
> 
> Judging by your posts I am leaning towards there being a reason...


Could be you're on to something rabbit, could be...


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Well I'm sure the IBEW international office is more than happy to accept my non working dues even if it means I never get a job. I bet that office doesn't even know where my local is. I'd be in dire poverty waiting for the union to give me a job. I hope no one at the office is making a lot of money for doing absolutely nothing. After I finish school I will not longer be paying dues because I have better things to do than waste my money and sit around waiting for someone to give me a job like the IBEW says it does.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

shockme123 said:


> Well I'm sure the IBEW international office is more than happy to accept my non working dues even if it means I never get a job. I bet that office doesn't even know where my local is. I'd be in dire poverty waiting for the union to give me a job. I hope no one at the office is making a lot of money for doing absolutely nothing. After I finish school I will not longer be paying dues because I have better things to do than waste my money and sit around waiting for someone to give me a job like the IBEW says it does.


Like I said, you really should quit. Do it now, don't wait.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I will, just wasting my money.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

shockme123 said:


> I will, just wasting my money.


No, you're wasting *my* money. Your attitude is horrible, but you already know that. You started your last thread with "I know I've already burned all bridges here", apparently you do that often. 

I explained in great detail how the system works, yet you are being unreasonable and unrealistic. If there is no work, someone can't just make it out of thin air. You constantly repeating how the local "is doing nothing for you", after the truth has been explained to you, sounds like the rantings of a 12 year old.

Please, leave the IBEW, we don't need or want people like you. Quit, it's really that simple.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

HackWork said:


> No, you're wasting *my* money. Your attitude is horrible, but you already know that. You started your last thread with "I know I've already burned all bridges here", apparently you do that often.
> 
> I explained in great detail how the system works, yet you are being unreasonable and unrealistic. If there is no work, someone can't just make it out of thin air. You constantly repeating how the local "is doing nothing for you", after the truth has been explained to you, sounds like the rantings of a 12 year old.
> 
> Please, leave the IBEW, we don't need or want people like you. Quit, it's really that simple.


Because there is work. It's just not going to the people who want it, but to the people who have to blow off someone in the union just to get where they want. I'm sure there's many people working who've paid less dues than me over the years. I'm not sure why you're picking up for the union. Let me guess, you're not 18 looking for an apprenticeship.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

shockme123 said:


> Because there is work. It's just not going to the people who want it, but to the people who have to blow off someone in the union just to get where they want. I'm sure there's many people working who've paid less dues than me over the years.


The amount you paid in quarterly dues has absolutely nothing to do with when you work or how much you work.

If you believe that the list is being tampered with, go in and talk to a BA about it. I am sure he will explain to you why you aren't moving, it's most likely the reason which I already told you above.

There have been many lawsuits because locals were circumventing the list, the IBEW cracked down on it. There are a few ways to do it by the book, such as calling a man out as a foreman or sending a man out as shop steward. But that's just about all you will find.

You should be discussing your issues with a BA, NOT here claiming publicly that your local is doing something illegal. This is supposed to be a brotherhood, but you sound like a rat bastard. This thread is here for everyone searching the internet to see, and you have made your local look bad for reasons that you are not even sure of.



> I'm not sure why you're picking up for the union. Let me guess, you're not 18 looking for an apprenticeship.


Because you came in here with a really bad attitude, because you are being very unreasonable, and because you won't listen to anything that you're being told. I assume this is your same problem throughout all the other parts of your life.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

shockme123 said:


> Because there is work. It's just not going to the people who want it, but to the people who have to blow off someone in the union just to get where they want. I'm sure there's many people working who've paid less dues than me over the years. I'm not sure why you're picking up for the union. Let me guess, you're not 18 looking for an apprenticeship.


Does that relate to not who you know but blow?


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Does that relate to not who you know but blow?


Yes exactly.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I just don't know what to do. I'll finish my 2nd block courses in November and then after that, then what?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

shockme123 said:


> I just don't know what to do. I'll finish my 2nd block courses in November and then after that, then what?


What would the education you've received have cost you outside of the Union?


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> What would the education you've received have cost you outside of the Union?


The government is paying for my education. The union as no school here nor do they help with tuition.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

shockme123 said:


> The government is paying for my education. The union as no school here nor do they help with tuition.


How does that come about?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> How does that come about?


Socialism.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Socialism.


Yeah, that was my thought but I wanted to hear his slant on it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Yeah, that was my thought but I wanted to hear his slant on it.


Yeah, after posting that I kinda thought to myself that I should have let him answer. 

Maybe he does know that all the people out there working are paying for his expensive education, while he complains about paying a pittance in membership fees to the union?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Not drastically different from our current system besides being extended past high school.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I got a list of over 200 guys who would love to be paying dues and going to college for free


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Socialism.


When I apprenticed, we got paid partial wages through unemployment insurance when we went to school. Not sure if it still works that way.

Socialism is wonderful when you're on the receiving end :laughing: .

If you're paying in, you may as well do your best to get some back.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> When I apprenticed, we got paid partial wages through unemployment insurance when we went to school. Not sure if it still works that way.
> 
> Socialism is wonderful when you're on the receiving end :laughing: .
> 
> If you're paying in, you may as well do your best to get some back.


Truthfully, I'm not complaining about your system, I'm just saying that if he is getting a free education that would normally cost tens of thousands of dollars, he shouldn't be complaining about the $35-40 in dues he has to pay per month to be part of the IBEW.

This thread calling out his local by number is completely out of line and he should quit the union in disgrace immediately.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Here are the costs for a first year apprentice to attend my local college:

Tuition: $784.00
Books & Supplies: $750.00
NAITSA & Materials Fee: $130.88
Athletic Fee: $37.60

Fourth year is more money because it takes longer. Maybe some provinces are free. Education is provincial, not federal.

If union dues pay for your education down south, it's a steal.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Truthfully, I'm not complaining about your system, I'm just saying that if he is getting a free education that would normally cost tens of thousands of dollars, he shouldn't be complaining about the $35-40 in dues he has to pay per month to be part of the IBEW.
> 
> This thread calling out his local by number is completely out of line and he should quit the union in disgrace immediately.


Couldn't agree more. I wish I had received a free college education, I had to work to pay for mine.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99, union dues don't pay, 2.5% of the hourly rate for life pays. That money comes out of the hourly package.

My sister local is 5% because the apprentices get paid while in school.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Truthfully, I'm not complaining about your system, I'm just saying that if he is getting a free education that would normally cost tens of thousands of dollars, he shouldn't be complaining about the $35-40 in dues he has to pay per month to be part of the IBEW.
> 
> This thread calling out his local by number is completely out of line and he should quit the union in disgrace immediately.


I mentioned in an above post that the union as no school here nor do they help with tuition. What part of that do you not understand? 

If you are EI eligible here or have received EI in the last 3 years you can get most if not all of your schooling paid for here by the provincial government. Although I did pay for my first year of schooling up front all of the subsequent blocks are paid for. I know many people who never had to pay a dime for their apprenticeship. They would get laid off in Alberta or someplace and then come back here, apply for sponsorship to go back to school and do another trade, and regardless if they continued or not they would get 9 months of schooling for free as well as a travel allowance.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

99cents said:


> Here are the costs for a first year apprentice to attend my local college:
> 
> Tuition: $784.00
> Books & Supplies: $750.00
> ...


Is that for the entire program? I didn't go the public college route because the waiting list was 3-4 years long. I did pay a lot though, which is why I wished I had more options available to me when I went back to school.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

If you really want to know if they are doing something illegal go see your equivalent of the FBI and ask. I'm sure they will welcome your inquiry with open ears.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

It just frustrates me that they would allow so many apprentices to join knowing very well there's no work for them.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

shockme123 said:


> It just frustrates me that they would allow so many apprentices to join knowing very well there's no work for them.


Kind of like stockpiling cans on the shelf for preparedness.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

shockme123 said:


> I mentioned in an above post that the union as no school here nor do they help with tuition. What part of that do you not understand?


I never said that the union had a school there or helped pay for tuition. 



> It just frustrates me that they would allow so many apprentices to join knowing very well there's no work for them.


 Because I am sure you know how to run the union better than they do...

Tell us how "They very well knew there's no work"...?

You are here lambasting your local union for everyone with Google to see when they search your union number, yet you really don't have a clue what you are talking about.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

It's common sense. If someone has to wait 3 years to find work while waiting on a list, shouldn't that be a hint to the union to not allow that person to enroll? There's only a couple of projects going on here, definitely doesn't warrant the need for several hundred apprentices to be on the books waiting for an opening on one of these projects. The projects are completed before that person is able to work one minute with the local.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

shockme123 said:


> It's common sense.


 No, it's not common sense. Common sense is something that you are not using here.



> If someone has to wait 3 years to find work while waiting on a list, shouldn't that be a hint to the union to not allow that person to enroll?


 How would they know 3 years earlier, the crystal ball I asked you about earlier in the thread?



> There's only a couple of projects going on here, definitely doesn't warrant the need for several hundred apprentices to be on the books waiting for an opening on one of these projects. The projects are completed before that person is able to work one minute with the local.


What is your point? You're not making any sense. 

Do you think the union maliciously let too many people in? Or do you feel that they thought that there would be much more work? Do you know for a fact that projects weren't canceled? Do you know that the internation often makes unions take in a certain amount of apprentices per year?

Do you know anything?

From the beginning of the thread I told you to go in and talk to the BA's about this, yet you refuse to. You continue to make posts here showing your complete ignorance of the subject, yet you are unwilling to educate yourself.

And like I said before, the fact that you are opening accusing your own union of illegal activity like this, without any proof whatsoever, just because they haven't sent you out to work yet means that you are a really crappy union member and should quit.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Yes because you obviously know how your union works, but not mine. I haven't paid any dues in over six months, so I could really care less.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

shockme123 said:


> Yes because you obviously know how your union works, but not mine.


I have a pretty good idea how most IBEW locals work, certainly a far better understanding than you. You haven't posted a single reasonable thing in this thread, just a lot of whining.



> I haven't paid any dues in over six months, so I could really care less.


 So all the complaining about paying dues, yet you haven't paid them?

No wonder you haven't gotten any work, read up on your local's FAQ about not paying dues and coming off the list  

"_If you do not pay your dues in over 6 months you will need to rejoin as a new member and that date will be used as your initiation date. This means you will loose your current rank and go to bottom of the list._"


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## Brain John (Jul 15, 2016)

shockme123 said:


> It's common sense. If someone has to wait 3 years to find work while waiting on a list, shouldn't that be a hint to the union to not allow that person to enroll? There's only a couple of projects going on here, definitely doesn't warrant the need for several hundred apprentices to be on the books waiting for an opening on one of these projects. The projects are completed before that person is able to work one minute with the local.


In the peak of the recession our local was taking on new apprentices like there was no recession, recession slowly ended and we had plenty of help to man all the jobs union companies landed. Had we backed off taking in apprentices we'd be losing jobs to open shops.

Hard to tell the future, take in too many and have no work and they are called foolish, don't take in enough apprentices and work picks up and NECA is hot to trot because the union cannot supply labor.

If the local could tell the future they'd be investing heavily invested in wall street. 

THAT IS CALLED THE WAY OF THE WORLD.


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