# Crazy Question About 14/2 Romex??



## coswald (Nov 11, 2008)

I have a weird question, more food for thought than actual application which may be crazy. I was sitting here thinking about 10'2 wire which is rated up to 30 amps and can be used on a double pole 30 amp breaker right.
Well what if you took 2 14/2 wires and used them together? would that make them rated for 30 amps then since each 14/2 circut is rated 15 amps? If you think about it really, it almost seems as if 2 14/2 wires together would be rated a higher amperage than a single 10/2 wire? 
I thought of this when I was looking at the range wire, 6/3 which is made up of many different single wires instead of one single 6 gauge wire. 
Does this all make sense?? I guess I am asking is if my idea makes sense?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Have you looked up the difference in circular mils between 14 and 10?

If 10 is twice the cmil of 14, then your idea, _in theory_, it would work.

So look up in Table 8 the actual cmil of both.

Then Google the term "Skin Effect" for AC systems.


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## coswald (Nov 11, 2008)

thanks, good idea


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## coswald (Nov 11, 2008)

I see, it would take two seperate 12/2 or 13/2 wiring to accomplish this and if you used 2 14/2 wires wouldn't be enough, you would have to use 3 which in both cases with mess with the electical fields, which is why you need too keep your triplex wire that goes into the house together for the magnetic field? Let me know if I am hot or cold here.


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## Marco Electric (Sep 18, 2008)

13/2? Is that good for 17.5 amps?:blink:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Smallest wire you can parallel is 1/0 so erase this idea from your head. :no: And yes I know that there are exception's to this.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

coswald said:


> I have a weird question, more food for thought than actual application which may be crazy. I was sitting here thinking about 10'2 wire which is rated up to 30 amps and can be used on a double pole 30 amp breaker right.
> Well what if you took 2 14/2 wires and used them together? would that make them rated for 30 amps then since each 14/2 circut is rated 15 amps? If you think about it really, it almost seems as if 2 14/2 wires together would be rated a higher amperage than a single 10/2 wire?
> I thought of this when I was looking at the range wire, 6/3 which is made up of many different single wires instead of one single 6 gauge wire.
> Does this all make sense?? I guess I am asking is if my idea makes sense?


 
You're making sense, but how are you going to land those two conductors in a breaker that's listed for a single wire termination?????


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Smallest wire you can parallel is 1/0 so erase this idea from your head. :no: And yes I know that there are exception's to this.


He's speaking theoretically. It's been brought up many times, and shows (at least) he's thinking instead of just doing what he's told...


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

two parallel wires would actually prove better than one larger wire, if the logistic are ignored.


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## coswald (Nov 11, 2008)

76nemo said:


> You're making sense, but how are you going to land those two conductors in a breaker that's listed for a single wire termination?????


 
I would do something just amazing, I would loosen the screw more. But that's not really the point of it. The point is kind of what would happen, ya know in theory.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

coswald said:


> I would do something just amazing, I would loosen the screw more. But that's not really the point of it. The point is kind of what would happen, ya know in theory.


 
This tread is pointless It needs to be closed.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> This tread is pointless It needs to be closed.


What for? We all agree you _can't_ (by the NEC) do this, but I think the OP needs to understand _why_.

If you dont see the point, then don't read it any more.

It may be old-hat to many here, but we all weren't born with the knowledge that resides between our ears.:shifty:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

480: agreed, let the guy ask and learn. knowing how and knowing why are 2 seperate animals.:thumbsup:


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## thekoolcody (Aug 30, 2008)

480sparky said:


> What for? We all agree you _can't_ (by the NEC) do this, but I think the OP needs to understand _why_.
> 
> If you dont see the point, then don't read it any more.
> 
> It may be old-hat to many here, but we all weren't born with the knowledge that resides between our ears.:shifty:


True, He is right, people ask questions, to ask questions, no matter what skill level, or opinon.....


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

while we are on this topic how many 14-2's would it take to replace a piece of 750 mcm copper? Whould you have to derate? What size conduit? How would someone terminate it? What about a 4000a service? :no:


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## rossi32s (Jan 6, 2009)

I was just browsing thru this and had to respond...

if you have 14/2 and you put another 14/2 in parallel on a double pole breaker connected to a load, ummm... well... lets look into the future when one of the load carrying wires gets loose in your breaker that is double stabbed, 1 wire comes loose thru thermal expansion and now the other wire needs to cary the load that it is not rated for. At this point I hope your insured to cover the neglect lawsuit and the contents of the dwelling that just burned down.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

The 2 posters above me need to chill out. They guy is just asking a theory question... I dont know about you, but I learn by asking questions. You really shouldnt belittle someone for asking a question - even if it does seem 'stupid' to you. Arent we here to learn? I sure am, I usually learn at least 1 thing new every visit.

~Matt


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

This guy thought it would work.


He went from 3 phase 20 amp to single phase 40 amp :jester: The sad thing is that it was 3/4" conduit, 50' to the panel and took less than an hour to pull the proper conductors.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

william1978 said:


> while we are on this topic how many 14-2's would it take to replace a piece of 750 mcm copper? Whould you have to derate? What size conduit? How would someone terminate it? What about a 4000a service? :no:


People like you remind me of cockroaches. No matter what we do, they just don't die. Or go away.


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

coswald ...Good question.:thumbsup:It shows that you are thinking and this will lead you to understanding the paralleling of larger conductors.
To all that this applies.. ""There’s No Such Thing As A Stupid Question …… Only Stupid Answers!"


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

76nemo said:


> You're making sense, but how are you going to land those two conductors in a breaker that's listed for a single wire termination?????


 
Why, just pigtail on a piece of #10!:whistling2:


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Paralleling two 14-2s would violate a basic engineering principle, sometimes expressed by the acronym KISS. Paralleling wires to achieve what can be done without paralleling wires wastes materials and unnecessarily creates additional "failure points."

Yes, it can be done. I've done it myself to facilitate temporary hookups on construction sites, but I'd never leave it that way.


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

waco said:


> Paralleling two 14-2s....Yes, it can be done.


You get a gold star for today for answering the OP's question. :thumbsup:

Carry On!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

spoon said:


> People like you remind me of cockroaches. No matter what we do, they just don't die. Or go away.


 
:laughing::laughing: funny :laughing::laughing: I glad I remind you of a cockroach, but trust me I won't :no: loose any sleep.


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## chris#8 (Jan 7, 2009)

Yea it makes sense but by code you are not allowed to land more than one wire on each breaker space in the panel.Good thereory though. It seems like you would be able to get the wires in the box easier as well.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

william1978 said:


> I won't :no: loose any sleep.


You weren't actually supposed to respond. You were supposed to just go away. Anyhow, it's not possible, so I don't expect you to. Cockroach. :thumbsup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

spoon said:


> You weren't actually supposed to respond. You were supposed to just go away. Anyhow, it's not possible, so I don't expect you to. Cockroach. :thumbsup:


Keep responding I laugh my ass off every time you reply.:tt2:


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

Anyhow, to help Cozzy out, I'll mention Chapter 9 Table 8 - Conductor Properties (page 635 - NEC 2005). Here, you'll find the circular mils (cross-sectional area) of various copper and aluminum, stranded and solid conductors. By using this table, you can find out exactly how many #12s it would take to make up the same cross-sectional area of a single 1000kcmil. 

Take a peek and do some calculations, and then bug the journeymen on the jobsite! :thumbsup:


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

The only stupid question is the one not asked. I personally like the question, its something I really haven't sat down and thought about.


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## Amp1906 (Jul 14, 2008)

coswald said:


> I have a weird question, more food for thought than actual application which may be crazy. I was sitting here thinking about 10'2 wire which is rated up to 30 amps and can be used on a double pole 30 amp breaker right.
> Well what if you took 2 14/2 wires and used them together? would that make them rated for 30 amps then since each 14/2 circut is rated 15 amps? If you think about it really, it almost seems as if 2 14/2 wires together would be rated a higher amperage than a single 10/2 wire?
> I thought of this when I was looking at the range wire, 6/3 which is made up of many different single wires instead of one single 6 gauge wire.
> Does this all make sense?? I guess I am asking is if my idea makes sense?


 The bottom line is the CODE does not allow this.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Amp1906 said:


> The bottom line is the CODE does not allow this.


 :thumbsup:


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

The op never asked if it was to code so just spitting out "it not allowed" really wastes a teaching opportunity. :nerd:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Amp1906 said:


> The bottom line is the CODE does not allow this.


 









But why?​


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> But why?​


 :laughing::laughing:


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> But why?​


because I said so


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> But why?​


 Because Stone Cold said so.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rewire said:


> because I said so


 









But why?​


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> But why?​


 Because I said so.


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

76nemo said:


> You're making sense, but how are you going to land those two conductors in a breaker that's listed for a single wire termination?????


 mabye its a sq. d or sq. d homeline


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Because I said so.


 









But why?
:laughing:​


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> But why?
> 
> :laughing:​


 Because I said so. Now go to your room.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Because I said so. Now go to your room.











_But why?_
:laughing::laughing:​


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> _But why?_
> 
> :laughing::laughing:​


 Because I said so. Now you are grounded, and not the grounded that you're thinking about.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I didn't read all the replies but I have seen this done more than once.:jester:

I may even have pics somewhere.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Amp1906 said:


> The bottom line is the CODE does not allow this.


 
But when you're laying there staring at the ceiling after about an hour or so of bong hits, do you think code still applies?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Because I said so. Now you are grounded, and not the grounded that you're thinking about.








 
You mean like _bonded_, as in Part V of Article 250?​


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> You mean like _bonded_, as in Part V of Article 250?​


No. You are still grounded. Go to bed without supper now.:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> No. You are still grounded. Go to bed without supper now.:laughing:











Grounded to the electrode system,
or the equipment grounding conductor?

:laughing:​


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Grounded to the electrode system,
> or the equipment grounding conductor?​
> 
> :laughing:​


 No go to bed.:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> No go to bed.:laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

The old "change a 3 pole 20 to a 2 pole 40" routine.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


>


 :laughing::laughing:


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## forqnc (May 5, 2009)

220/221 said:


> The old "change a 3 pole 20 to a 2 pole 40" routine.


Double post 220/221, look at post #18 in this thread, you post this on 1/6/09. :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Crap! I hate when that happens.

Old posts should just go of into the cyber sunset and die after a couple months.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

220/221 said:


> Crap! I hate when that happens.
> 
> Old posts should just go of into the cyber sunset and die after a couple months.


 
Getting old sucks, doesn't it?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Getting old sucks, doesn't it?


 When you fart does dust come out?:whistling2::laughing:


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## luckylew (Nov 15, 2015)

*12/2 romex for 30 amp circuit*



ampman said:


> mabye its a sq. d or sq. d homeline


when my customers have need for a 30 amp circuit, i have paralled 12/2 romex soldiering the ends together , and have never had a problem, but i would not do it on a run longer than 30 ft, because of heat, longer than that the insulation might get a little hot, i would assume...just mt 2 cents..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

luckylew said:


> when my customers have need for a 30 amp circuit, i have paralled 12/2 romex soldiering the ends together , and have never had a problem, but i would not do it on a run longer than 30 ft, because of heat, longer than that the insulation might get a little hot, i would assume...just mt 2 cents..



.................................................


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

luckylew said:


> when my customers have need for a 30 amp circuit, i have paralled 12/2 romex soldiering the ends together , and have never had a problem, but i would not do it on a run longer than 30 ft, because of heat, longer than that the insulation might get a little hot, i would assume...just mt 2 cents..


I don't remember ever having done that, but if I did, I would not be eager to admit it.

maybe you can find some more 6 year old threads to reply to?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

luckylew said:


> when my customers have need for a 30 amp circuit, i have paralled 12/2 romex soldiering the ends together , and have never had a problem, but i would not do it on a run longer than 30 ft, because of heat, longer than that the insulation might get a little hot, i would assume...just mt 2 cents..


Not only are you a hack, you're an archeologist too.


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

luckylew said:


> when my customers have need for a 30 amp circuit, i have paralled 12/2 romex soldiering the ends together , and have never had a problem, but i would not do it on a run longer than 30 ft, because of heat, longer than that the insulation might get a little hot, i would assume...just mt 2 cents..


I think I've seen some of your work. What kind of 30 amp circuit would a handyman possibly need to install that didn't need a neutral? Oh wait......you didn't...did you?:vs_shocked:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

:laughing:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

coswald said:


> I have a weird question, more food for thought than actual application which may be crazy. I was sitting here thinking about 10'2 wire which is rated up to 30 amps and can be used on a double pole 30 amp breaker right.
> Well what if you took 2 14/2 wires and used them together? would that make them rated for 30 amps then since each 14/2 circut is rated 15 amps? If you think about it really, it almost seems as if 2 14/2 wires together would be rated a higher amperage than a single 10/2 wire?
> I thought of this when I was looking at the range wire, 6/3 which is made up of many different single wires instead of one single 6 gauge wire.
> Does this all make sense?? I guess I am asking is if my idea makes sense?


To answer your question ... Yes, you _could 
Wrong on ALL level though.

But for theories sake, if you were doing an experiment on a bench, you could wire up a 30amp disconnect on 14/2 , and it would be absoutely safe.
Now, go think about that, and come back with the answer as to why :whistling2:
_


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

emtnut said:


> To answer your question ... Yes, you _could
> Wrong on ALL level though.
> 
> But for theories sake, if you were doing an experiment on a bench, you could wire up a 30amp disconnect on 14/2 , and it would be absoutely safe.
> ...


The OP died of old age by now.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

InPhase277 said:


> The OP died of old age by now.


:laughing: Should always check the dates of these things when they come up :wallbash:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Yall pessimistic :laughing::laughing:


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

AcidTrip, fill us in on the details. This is a British ring circuit which is RCD(Residual Current Device(US GFI), usually on mains).
What is the wire and breaker size?
Would all the male plugs have 13amp fuses in them? 
Are these still used in the UK?


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Bird dog said:


> AcidTrip, fill us in on the details. This is a British ring circuit which is RCD(Residual Current Device(US GFI), usually on mains).
> What is the wire and breaker size?
> Would all the male plugs have 13amp fuses in them?
> Are these still used in the UK?



The wire size is usually 2.5mm2 (to compare 14 gauge is 2.08mm2 and 12 gauge is 3.31mm2) on a 32 amp MCB (fancy acronym for circuit breaker). 2.5mm2 is rated 20amps in wall with thermal insulation. So in a ring you have 40amps of capacity in theory. 

All the plugs have a fuse in them, a 1, 3 or 5 amp will be used for smaller items while a 13 amp fused will be used on large items like heaters or washing machines. The male plug is rated 13 amps max. 

These are still used in the UK and the standard. Ring circuits are still being installed to this day, though some electricians will admit sometimes its easier to just run a 32amp radial circuit.


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

76nemo said:


> You're making sense, but how are you going to land those two conductors in a breaker that's listed for a single wire termination?????


Pffft, JB with a wirenut to a #10 obviously.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Aegis said:


> Pffft, JB with a wirenut to a #10 obviously.


I initially read that as "JB Weld a wirenut" and thought "Yeah, that's about right for this thread...."


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

luckylew said:


> when my customers have need for a 30 amp circuit, i have paralled 12/2 romex soldiering the ends together , and have never had a problem, but i would not do it on a run longer than 30 ft, because of heat, longer than that the insulation might get a little hot, i would assume...just mt 2 cents..


So you revived a thread from six years ago to tell us this??? 

Sorry, closed.


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