# Shanty use-illegal?



## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

Forgive my ignorance but, what is a shanty? Never heard this term before.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

CopperSlave said:


> Forgive my ignorance but, what is a shanty? Never heard this term before.


An outhouse for the panel that hangs on the outside of the house?


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## JCather (Feb 13, 2013)

CopperSlave said:


> Forgive my ignorance but, what is a shanty? Never heard this term before.


A shanty is an outdoor cover hinged at the top designed to protect and indoor panel.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

JCather said:


> A shanty is an outdoor cover hinged at the top designed to protect and indoor panel.


If the panel is rated indoor... it has to be indoor.. just putting a cover over it does not change the listing.. :no::no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

DIY shanty:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

A 3R panel provides a degree of protection against rain and sleet. If the doghouse is actually shingled or otherwise weather-proofed, how does the inspector think it's going to function any differently than an outdoor-rated enclosure?

The panel guts between NEMA 1 and 3R for are likely identical, and that's what I'd look up to prove to the inspector that it was acceptable.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Why would you install an interior panel outside? I guess if the structure is weather tight then it should be compliant but then you may have some issues with 110.26


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Big John said:


> A 3R panel provides a degree of protection against rain and sleet. If the doghouse is actually shingled or otherwise weather-proofed, how does the inspector think it's going to function any differently than an outdoor-rated enclosure?
> 
> The panel guts between NEMA 1 and 3R for are likely identical, and that's what I'd look up to prove to the inspector that it was acceptable.


What happens (15) years down the line when the "shanty" starts falling apart and is not maintained??

Then you have a indoor panel wide open and exposed to the weather..


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

B4T said:


> What happens (15) years down the line when the "shanty" starts falling apart and is not maintained??
> 
> Then you have a indoor panel wide open and exposed to the weather..


Same thing that happens if a 3R panel develops a leak. Same thing that happens if the house wasn't well constructed and a leak develops above the indoor-mounted panel.

It's not up to the inspector to "what if" the installation. 

If it's adequately protected from the weather, it's no different than installing a panel in an unheated garage and the inspector has no authority to reject it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Big John said:


> Same thing that happens if a 3R panel develops a leak. Same thing that happens if the house wasn't well constructed and a leak develops above the indoor-mounted panel.
> 
> It's not up to the inspector to "what if" the installation.
> 
> If it's adequately protected from the weather, it's no different than installing a panel in an unheated garage and the inspector has no authority to reject it.


But a 3R panel is rated for where it is being installed.. outdoors and exposed to the weather..

Doesn't matter how you spin it.. indoor panel in not designed for a wet location..


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

B4T said:


> But a 3R panel is rated for where it is being installed.. outdoors and exposed to the weather..
> 
> Doesn't matter how you spin it.. indoor panel in not designed for a wet location..


 The part where we may be diverging is I'm assuming this thing has doors. If it doesn't, I agree, it's a problem. If it does, then the panel is not exposed to the weather nor is it a wet location.


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## JCather (Feb 13, 2013)

*It's 3R*



Big John said:


> The part where we may be diverging is I'm assuming this thing has doors. If it doesn't, I agree, it's a problem. If it does, then the panel is not exposed to the weather nor is it a wet location.


The shanty is a NEMA 3R rated enclosure.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Is this what you are talking about?











http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/wiring/enclosures/weatherproof/wr-wux.html

If so your inspector is wrong.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

nolabama said:


> Is this what you are talking about?
> 
> http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/wiring/enclosures/weatherproof/wr-wux.html
> 
> If so your inspector is wrong.


Yes that is what is used around here. I never had a problem with them. It definitely is better than a doghouse!


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

B4T said:


> What happens (15) years down the line when the "shanty" starts falling apart and is not maintained??
> 
> Then you have a indoor panel wide open and exposed to the weather..


But.......... *"It Never Rains in Southern California":whistling2:*:jester:


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

B4T said:


> What happens (15) years down the line when the "shanty" starts falling apart and is not maintained??
> 
> Then you have a indoor panel wide open and exposed to the weather..


 
It is a metal cover similar to 3R cover, no maintenance necessary.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I put a nema 1 panel inside a big Hoffman telco lockable style 3r enclosure outside once. Then I came here and asked if it was ok, using the "somebody else did it" ploy...........
:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

nolabama said:


> Is this what you are talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I use those to secure phone demarcs at lift stations, wells... for the autodialers. Cut a u shape slot in the bottom and slip it over the pipe they brought up.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> But a 3R panel is rated for where it is being installed.. outdoors and exposed to the weather..
> 
> Doesn't matter how you spin it.. indoor panel in not designed for a wet location..


It is inside the shanty, it is not outside.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

In truth the NEC does not really address _'inside'_ vs _'outside'_ it addresses dry, damp and wet locations.



> *Location, Damp.* Locations protected from weather and
> not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
> subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such
> locations include partially protected locations under canopies,
> ...





> *Location, Dry.* A location not normally subject to dampness
> or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily
> subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a
> building under construction.





> *Location, Wet.* Installations underground or in concrete
> slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations
> subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such
> as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed
> to weather.


So inside the shanty is not a wet location as it is neither underground, nor exposed to the weather.

We may say it is a damp location but do we install NEMA 1 enclosures in garages and sheds? Those are equally 'damp'.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

JCather said:


> The shanty is a NEMA 3R rated enclosure.


 I assumed it was a home-made doghouse, but that's even better.

It serves the exact same function as the outdoor-rated 3R tub the panel guts sit in.


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## sseivard (Apr 25, 2012)

So what is the advantage of using this product over a typical outdoor rated panel? It seems like the additional cost of equipment would eliminate any cost savings.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

sseivard said:


> So what is the advantage of using this product over a typical outdoor rated panel? It seems like the additional cost of equipment would eliminate any cost savings.


I have to agree 100% with this


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Shanty-A house in Mastic Beach with no permits


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

sseivard said:


> So what is the advantage of using this product over a typical outdoor rated panel? It seems like the additional cost of equipment would eliminate any cost savings.


They don't make flush mount 3R panels. If they do they are not a stock item.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Wireless said:


> They don't make flush mount 3R panels. If they do they are not a stock item.


Why would you want a flush mount exterior panel? That makes no sense.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> In truth the NEC does not really address _'inside'_ vs _'outside'_ it addresses dry, damp and wet locations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So how can the inside of a sealed conduit run on the side of a house above grade be called a "wet location".. it doesn't fit your description.. :no::no:


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

nolabama said:


> Why would you want a flush mount exterior panel? That makes no sense.


So you can easily feed Romex into it.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

http://www.shantytown.co.nz/


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Another useless post that 48 petesy should black list.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> So how can the inside of a sealed conduit run on the side of a house above grade be called a "wet location".


Good question, here is why.



> *300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above grade.* Where
> raceways are installed in wet locations above grade, the interior
> of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location.
> Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet
> locations above grade shall comply with 310.10(C).






B4T said:


> . it doesn't fit your description.. :no::no:


I did not post my description I posted the NEC definitions found in Article 100.:thumbsup:


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

Those "shanty's" are somewhat common on trailers,mobile homes,manufactured homes, factory built homes, what ever you want to call them they are still trailers though. :whistling2:


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## Russpene (10 mo ago)

sseivard said:


> So what is the advantage of using this product over a typical outdoor rated panel? It seems like the additional cost of equipment would eliminate any cost savings.


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## Russpene (10 mo ago)

I can’t find a flush mount outdoor sub panel.
If you know of one let me know.
No pipes out side of walls hoa


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## Russpene (10 mo ago)

Wireless said:


> They don't make flush mount 3R panels. If they do they are not a stock item.


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## Russpene (10 mo ago)

I have been looking for flush mount 200 amp r3
And no luck everyone tells me there not made


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

you can recess mount an out door panel


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Russpene said:


> I can’t find a flush mount outdoor sub panel.
> If you know of one let me know.
> No pipes out side of walls hoa


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

thread so old, b4t started posting again.....


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