# Leaving the union



## DoCJohnny

I was wondering if people who have left the IBEW can share their experiences. 

How did you leave, just drop your book and go non-union? Shelf your book? Go out as a SALT and decide to stay out?

How have your experiences been? Any regrets? Any issues from your local?

I'm just exploring options now. You can't really expect a man to sustain a work schedule of 2 months working, 20 months off, 6 weeks working, 24 months off. At this point it doesn't look like things are going to change for quite some time.


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## Zog

I went before the board and did an honorary withdrawl.


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## sbrn33

I think it's a blood in blood out deal. So be prepared. Have doctors ready, maybe a small emergency fund.
What happened did you find morals somewhere?


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## erics37

sbrn33 said:


> I think it's a blood in blood out deal. So be prepared. Have doctors ready, maybe a small emergency fund.
> What happened did you find morals somewhere?


I didn't have to maim or kill anyone to get in :blink:


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## BBQ

erics37 said:


> I didn't have to maim or kill anyone to get in :blink:



Just a BJ or did you have to go with a rim job as well?


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## erics37

BBQ said:


> Just a BJ or did you have to go with a rim job as well?


A rusty trombone :whistling2:


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## brian john

For me it was soooo hard to get in, I'd be hard put to want to get out, that is why I am working until I die.

I have know several men that shelved their cards because they changed trades, such as joining another union, going into the office or going to work for a GC. It was a simple procedure, other than the personal decision several faced having been union members for years.

I cannot think of any that left for negative reasons and went to battle with the local, I have seen several go open shop on the down-low, waiting until the work load picks up at the local.


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## DoCJohnny

brian john said:


> For me it was soooo hard to get in, I be hard put to want to get out, that is why I am working until I die.
> 
> I have know several men that shelved their cards because they changed trades, such as joining another union, going into the office or going to work for a GC. It was a simple procedure, other than the personal decision several faced having been union members for years.
> 
> I cannot think of any that left for negative reasons and went to battle with the local, I have seen several go open shop on the down-low, waiting until the work load picks up at the local.


It was hard for me to get in too. Leaving the union is not something that I want to do, but at some point I am going to have to make a hard decision. I have no problem "weathering the storm" as I have in the past during bad times, but this seems like the apocalypse, I don't know if it's ever going to get better. At what point is it prudent to say "I better get going while the going is good"? 

I had a very solid career until about 4 years ago when it started to get really bad. At that point I started using up connections that I made in the past and today they are all gone. Most of the contractors are hurting just as bad, they can't keep their core guys going nevermind new guys. Now, signing the referral list at the hall and saying "See you in 2 years!" is a fact of life.

As for shelving the card or working on the down-low, there have been multiple members who went to work for non-union shops and brought up on charges and fined for that. The last thing I need is a war and $2,500+ fine from the local. I signed the paperwork a very long time ago so I'm not sure what it said nor could I find anything about it in the bylaws, but I've been told that once you're signed with the local they can fine you and even put a lien on your house for working for non-union competition. During union meetings in the past they have brought up those fines, it seems as if they were out to make an example of some members. I was hoping someone here had more information from their own experiences.


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## robnj772

DoCJohnny said:


> It was hard for me to get in too. Leaving the union is not something that I want to do, but at some point I am going to have to make a hard decision. I have no problem "weathering the storm" as I have in the past during bad times, but this seems like the apocalypse, I don't know if it's ever going to get better. At what point is it prudent to say "I better get going while the going is good"?
> 
> I had a very solid career until about 4 years ago when it started to get really bad. At that point I started using up connections that I made in the past and today they are all gone. Most of the contractors are hurting just as bad, they can't keep their core guys going nevermind new guys. Now, signing the referral list at the hall and saying "See you in 2 years!" is a fact of life.
> 
> As for shelving the card or working on the down-low, there have been multiple members who went to work for non-union shops and brought up on charges and fined for that. The last thing I need is a war and $2,500+ fine from the local. I signed the paperwork a very long time ago so I'm not sure what it said nor could I find anything about it in the bylaws, but I've been told that once you're signed with the local they can fine you and even put a lien on your house for working for non-union competition. During union meetings in the past they have brought up those fines, it seems as if they were out to make an example of some members. I was hoping someone here had more information from their own experiences.


 
Don't let them think they own you because they don't. If they can't keep you working screw them. I left the union(local 102) and I now own a non uinon shop. No one put a lien on my house or anything. They didn't pay for my house I did. Leaving the union was one of the best moves I made. I now get to keep what I earn instead of paying for the guys that run the locals house.It is kinda like the Mob. If anything you should be able to put a lien on their house.....


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## DoCJohnny

robnj772 said:


> Don't let them think they own you because they don't. If they can't keep you working screw them. I left the union(local 102) and I now own a non uinon shop. No one put a lien on my house or anything. They didn't pay for my house I did. Leaving the union was one of the best moves I made. I now get to keep what I earn instead of paying for the guys that run the locals house.It is kinda like the Mob. If anything you should be able to put a lien on their house.....


How did you leave? Honorary withdrawl like user Zog above? Shelf your book? Just stop paying dues? If this is private to you and you don't want to say, then I understand.

One issue that I did not mention is my pension and annuity, I do not want to do anything that could jeopardize those.


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## jwjrw

robnj772 said:


> Don't let them think they own you because they don't. If they can't keep you working screw them. I left the union(local 102) and I now own a non uinon shop. No one put a lien on my house or anything. They didn't pay for my house I did. Leaving the union was one of the best moves I made. *I now get to keep what I earn* instead of paying for the guys that run the locals house.It is kinda like the Mob. If anything you should be able to put a lien on their house.....




A small business owner can do quite well for themselves.


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## Sparky3

robnj772 said:


> Don't let them think they own you because they don't. If they can't keep you working screw them. I left the union(local 102) and I now own a non uinon shop. No one put a lien on my house or anything. They didn't pay for my house I did. Leaving the union was one of the best moves I made. I now get to keep what I earn instead of paying for the guys that run the locals house.It is kinda like the Mob. If anything you should be able to put a lien on their house.....


Do you pay your workers that good union wage you use to get or was that wage only good for you....BROTHER.


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## BigCL

I stop paying dues. Can't pay what you don't have.


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## DoCJohnny

Sparky3 said:


> Do you pay your workers that good union wage you use to get or was that wage only good for you....BROTHER.


I don't expect to get union wage. Union wage times zero hours equals "0".


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## jwjrw

Sparky3 said:


> Do you pay your workers that good union wage you use to get or was that wage only good for you....BROTHER.



I imagine he pays his workers well and they are most likely happy to be employed by a hard working person. One who earns his money and does not expect things to be given to him. Unlike a lot (but not all) of lazy brothers.....Brother


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## DoCJohnny

I hope people who have left the union could share their experiences and we could avoid getting into a union versus merit shop debate.


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## jbfan

DoCJohnny said:


> I hope people who have left the union could share their experiences and we could avoid getting into a union versus merit shop debate.


That never happens here!:laughing:


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## brian john

DoCJohnny said:


> I hope people who have left the union could share their experiences and we could avoid getting into a union versus merit shop debate.


As has been noted, that is ALMOST ALWAYS IMPOSSIBLE.

Union guys get bitter, open shop men are surprised and everything collapses into a brawl.

Me I say if it works for you go for it. Be fair, treat your employees like you want to be treated and hopefully, life will be good to you.

But hopefully what they make will be based on how much you can realistically charge, not some random ever increasing number in a down market.


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## robnj772

jwjrw said:


> I imagine he pays his workers well and they are most likely happy to be employed by a hard working person. One who earns his money and does not expect things to be given to him. Unlike a lot (but not all) of lazy brothers.....Brother


 
Thank you,I was going to say exactly this but now I don't have to.....:laughing:


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## robnj772

DoCJohnny said:


> How did you leave? Honorary withdrawl like user Zog above? Shelf your book? Just stop paying dues? If this is private to you and you don't want to say, then I understand.
> 
> One issue that I did not mention is my pension and annuity, I do not want to do anything that could jeopardize those.


You annuity is yours to keep they can't take that from you. I still have mine in the account. You can withdrawl it when ever you want but you will be taxed heavily. I think whoever told you that they would lien your house was yanking your chain. That would NEVER hold up in court.

I left the union for many reasons,lack of work was high up there. The main reason I had for leaving the union was with the way I was treated by the BROTHERS at the hall.

I was in at the tail end of my 5th year apprenticeship and was also serving in the Army National Guard. I was activated and had to go away unexpectily for a few weeks. I called my instructor and told him and he said no problem,be safe. WELL when I came back the BA yelled and screamed at me like I was a 3 year old,had me removed from the job I was on and sent me to the bench. It turns out that he had a problem with my boss and really hated the guy,but that wasn't my fault. Now what he did was 10000000% illegal and I could have sued the crap out of them BROTHERS with the best lawyers the army had to offer. I didn't becuase at that point I realized that I didn't want anything to do with anyone who would treat anyone like that let alone someone who was off serving his country.

I went in there handed him my book and told him to stick it up his A$$ and never looked back.


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## Loose Neutral

It all depends on what type of work you do when you leave. If you are in direct competition with your local contractors then you will have problems. If you go and do a maintenance job, pay your dues untill you think it's for you, then shelve your ticket. Times are bad and hopefully they will get better. I think that is happening now. I don't think your chances are better on the other side though. Try to ride it out, but a man has to do what he has to do to feed his family.


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## Loose Neutral

robnj772 said:


> You annuity is yours to keep they can't take that from you. I still have mine in the account. You can withdrawl it when ever you want but you will be taxed heavily. I think whoever told you that they would lien your house was yanking your chain. That would NEVER hold up in court.
> 
> I left the union for many reasons,lack of work was high up there. The main reason I had for leaving the union was with the way I was treated by the BROTHERS at the hall.
> 
> I was in at the tail end of my 5th year apprenticeship and was also serving in the Army National Guard. I was activated and had to go away unexpectily for a few weeks. I called my instructor and told him and he said no problem,be safe. WELL when I came back the BA yelled and screamed at me like I was a 3 year old,had me removed from the job I was on and sent me to the bench. It turns out that he had a problem with my boss and really hated the guy,but that wasn't my fault. Now what he did was 10000000% illegal and I could have sued the crap out of them BROTHERS with the best lawyers the army had to offer. I didn't becuase at that point I realized that I didn't want anything to do with anyone who would treat anyone like that let alone someone who was off serving his country.
> 
> I went in there handed him my book and told him to stick it up his A$$ and never looked back.


You can withdraw that money and put it in a qualified IRA without a penalty.


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## code_compliant

DoCJohnny said:


> I hope people who have left the union could share their experiences and we could avoid getting into a union versus merit shop debate.


I did the dishonorable and quit paying dues. The majority of co-workers I considered friends avoid talking to me. Eventually, the hall salted my shop and "strongly" encouraged me to become a signatory contractor. No.

In retrospect, I learned the majority of my technical ability from union members. It's my belief (and only mine) that technical ability is almost worthless without competitive productivity, better than average customer skills, and an ability to visualize the big picture. I didn't see the future in it then, or now. I have no regrets but having two tables of "friends" at my wedding whom no longer speak to me is not something to boast of.


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## robnj772

Loose Neutral said:


> You can withdraw that money and put it in a qualified IRA without a penalty.


 
I was toying with the idea of taking it out and getting some coke and a couple of hookers


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## Loose Neutral

You only live once. Go for it.


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## Loose Neutral

I actually know a guy who did that exact thing. Blew his 401k on hookers and crack.


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## slickvic277

robnj772 said:


> You annuity is yours to keep they can't take that from you. I still have mine in the account. You can withdrawl it when ever you want but you will be taxed heavily. I think whoever told you that they would lien your house was yanking your chain. That would NEVER hold up in court.
> 
> I left the union for many reasons,lack of work was high up there. The main reason I had for leaving the union was with the way I was treated by the BROTHERS at the hall.
> 
> I was in at the tail end of my 5th year apprenticeship and was also serving in the Army National Guard. I was activated and had to go away unexpectily for a few weeks. I called my instructor and told him and he said no problem,be safe. WELL when I came back the BA yelled and screamed at me like I was a 3 year old,had me removed from the job I was on and sent me to the bench. It turns out that he had a problem with my boss and really hated the guy,but that wasn't my fault. Now what he did was 10000000% illegal and I could have sued the crap out of them BROTHERS with the best lawyers the army had to offer. I didn't becuase at that point I realized that I didn't want anything to do with anyone who would treat anyone like that let alone someone who was off serving his country.
> 
> I went in there handed him my book and told him to stick it up his A$$ and never looked back.



Rob I know we don't like each other but I don't blame you for what you did. I would have done the same thing.

I said it before and I'll say it again, 102 is filled with some of the biggest scum I've ever met.


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## miller_elex

sbrn33 said:


> I think it's a blood in blood out deal.


Nothing could be further from the truth.

Nobody gives a sh1t if you live, die, or sit at home on your ass.


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## Brother Noah1

DoCJohnny said:


> I hope people who have left the union could share their experiences and we could avoid getting into a union versus merit shop debate.


 It is a pleasant surprise that this thread has been kept civil.I have a few questions, are you vested in the retirement plan?did you sign a contract with your local not to be in contrast for a said period of time(usually 5 years) If you have vested and been topped out for more than five years I would recommend that you check with your local about shelving your ticket(there should be no repercussions) Now for my other view, we are in construction and the market will vary but have you checked into traveling at all? Can you work the nuke circuit? In the next few months there will be many outages needing manpower all across the country including some close to New Jersey.I wish you well in your search and hope you realize what it is your in search of.


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## miller_elex

Brother Noah said:


> Can you work the nuke circuit?


He said he was tired of working with the scum of the earth.

Or was that someone else?


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## DoCJohnny

Brother Noah said:


> It is a pleasant surprise that this thread has been kept civil.I have a few questions, are you vested in the retirement plan?did you sign a contract with your local not to be in contrast for a said period of time(usually 5 years) If you have vested and been topped out for more than five years I would recommend that you check with your local about shelving your ticket(there should be no repercussions) Now for my other view, we are in construction and the market will vary but have you checked into traveling at all? Can you work the nuke circuit? In the next few months there will be many outages needing manpower all across the country including some close to New Jersey.I wish you well in your search and hope you realize what it is your in search of.


 I am vested. 

I am a single father so traveling isn't a good option right now. After my wife died I had to take over both of our roles of raising the kids and providing for them.


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## BuzzKill

jwjrw said:


> A small business owner can do quite well for themselves.


no kidding! open a SEP IRA and you can donate up to $49K tax free.


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## brian john

Brother Noah said:


> It is a pleasant surprise that this thread has been kept civil.I have a few questions, are you vested in the retirement plan?did you sign a contract with your local not to be in contrast for a said period of time(usually 5 years)


If you are talking a none compete, then most states set the limit at 12-24 months anything else and you are trying to stop a person from making a living at their chosen profession.

If you are talking about an apprentice leaving then that is something else.


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## Brother Noah1

DoCJohnny said:


> I am vested.
> 
> I am a single father so traveling isn't a good option right now. After my wife died I had to take over both of our roles of raising the kids and providing for them.


 I had custody of 4 and was single and I know how tough it can be so I honestly wish you well in whatever choice you make.With IO's new stance on organizing I would say that something as simple as signing a SALT card would do. Now Brian as far as the law, if you sign a contract to except a free education in return promise to work for and not against the entity that pays this said $20,000 then you would be liable for the $20,000 if you broke this contract by working nonunion before the 5 year period is up.This is what the California system states.


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## slickvic277

Brother Noah said:


> I had custody of 4 and was single and I know how tough it can be so I honestly wish you well in whatever choice you make.With IO's new stance on organizing I would say that something as simple as signing a SALT card would do. Now Brian as far as the law, if you sign a contract to except a free education in return promise to work for and not against the entity that pays this said $20,000 then you would be liable for the $20,000 if you broke this contract by working nonunion before the 5 year period is up.This is what the California system states.


Noah, that's a standard contract for all apprentices to sign in the IBEW as far as I know.(they do it here too). The problem with it is, it becomes totally unenforceable if the local cannot provide you with reasonable employment.


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## Brother Noah1

slickvic277 said:


> Noah, that's a standard contract for all apprentices to sign in the IBEW as far as I know.(they do it here too). The problem with it is, it becomes totally unenforceable if the local cannot provide you with reasonable employment.


 You have a point but with IO's push on taking in as many as we can, all it takes is one's signature and they to can SALT too.


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## slickvic277

Brother Noah said:


> You have a point but with IO's push on taking in as many as we can, all it takes is one's signature and they to can SALT too.


No doubt about it.


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## Englishsparky

Sorry to ask a silly question but what is SALT?


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## slickvic277

Englishsparky said:


> Sorry to ask a silly question but what is SALT?



There is not enough bandwidth or patience to describe it. Think double agent.

At it's worst, it's a trouble maker who sabotages whatever company their with, while having no real reason to be there.

At it's bets it opens the door up to the union for those who want to better their work place. (through an NLRB election.)


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## Englishsparky

Thanks for that Vic.:thumbsup:


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## slickvic277

Englishsparky said:


> Thanks for that Vic.:thumbsup:


No sweat. That's what I do.


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## aarons600rr

Remove your pension!!! I did (reinvested )and then put my card on hold .


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## Brother Noah1

slickvic277 said:


> There is not enough bandwidth or patience to describe it. Think double agent.
> 
> At it's worst, it's a trouble maker who sabotages whatever company their with, while having no real reason to be there.
> 
> At it's bets it opens the door up to the union for those who want to better their work place. (through an NLRB election.)


 Actually what it has turned into as of lately is union members working nonunion with little or no hassle from the local reps because they have little work and or desire to do their job properly.


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## slickvic277

Brother Noah said:


> Actually what it has turned into as of lately is union members working nonunion with little or no hassle from the local reps because they have little work and or desire to do their job properly.


That sheeet has been going on for years.


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## miller_elex

Brother Noah said:


> Actually what it has turned into as of lately is union members working nonunion with little or no hassle from the local reps because they have little work and or desire to do their job properly.


Depends on the sector the EC serves.

Some companys are ignored, others are not. Not saying details, but it's not common sense IMO, knowing who the companies were.


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## HARRY304E

miller_elex said:


> Depends on the sector the EC serves.
> 
> Some companys are ignored, others are not. Not saying details, but it's not common sense IMO, knowing who the companies were.





> knowing who the companies were.


:blink::blink::blink: What..


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## cabletie

I believe I signed a 10 year contract 25+years ago.I don't know if it would be enforcable in these tough times. there may be some fifth years that are going to find out. I wish you the best of luck brother. I would try and disguise it as a salt. If they don't like it i am sure the io would not mind, especialy with the push for more members when so many are out of work. again I wish you well


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## BBQ

Brother Noah said:


> all it takes is one's signature and they to can SALT too.



In other words go try to screw another company up.


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## mightyjoe

You have to do it right. Withdraw your card first. You will need to look at your retirements too see if you will loose some or all depending on contract. Retirement health care is another big one. I myself am considering this as my company made me salary and laid everyone else off as they strive to get out. Good Luck!!


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## DoCJohnny

BBQ said:


> In other words go try to screw another company up.


If I were to "SALT", as in stay in the union for now but go work non-union during my 2 year wait, I wouldn't use the tactics that have been employed in the past. SALTing is promoted as giving a good light to union workers and that is something that I would strive to do. I wouldn't talk about union work or how great it is in any attempt to sway others, my main goal is to simply put food on the table and possibly have a good time while doing it. The problem is finding an employer to hire me, someone that isn't tainted by the thuggery in the past. There's no way to hide my union ties since that is the only experience that I've had.

That brings up another question for the people who left the union, how hard was it to find a job in an open shop? Did perspective employers think you were out to sabotage them and bring up labor board disputes like the bad type of SALTers have done in the past?


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## Zog

Loose Neutral said:


> You can withdraw that money and put it in a qualified IRA without a penalty.


Yep, that is where mine is. And doing much better now that I can manage it myself. It was a little difficult to do, not as easy as your usual IRA rollover.


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## Brother Noah1

BBQ said:


> In other words go try to screw another company up.


 Okay under this moniker that you use I will explain what I have personally experienced. The Salting goals today have nothing to do with destruction, only to prove to the contractors how safe and productive their work force COULD be if they were to hire union.I am very familiar with past trial and error policy's of the IBEW and it has been many years since IO has had any ill will towards the nonunion sector.This is just not taught to the rank and file in today's environment.


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## miller_elex

There will always be electricians, and always be contractors.

There will not always be a union.

When the day comes that I can no longer provide for a reasonable way of life by means of the union, I will move on down the road to a non-union shop.

That's just the way it is, I don't plan on moving around the country to find work, if I wanted to do that, I'd have been a fitter.

Its not like the retirement will be there for me anyways, the locals are so top-heavy with old-geezers, they will suck the pension fund dry before I get any chance to touch it. :no:


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## brian john

Brother Noah said:


> . The Salting goals today have nothing to do with destruction, only to prove to the contractors how safe and productive their work force COULD be if they were to hire union.I am very familiar with past trial and error policy's of the IBEW and it has been many years since IO has had any ill will towards the nonunion sector.This is just not taught to the rank and file in today's environment.


When did the policy change?


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## Mr Rewire

brian john said:


> When did the policy change?


 Thats always been the policy


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## brison1208

robnj772 said:


> You annuity is yours to keep they can't take that from you. I still have mine in the account. You can withdrawl it when ever you want but you will be taxed heavily. I think whoever told you that they would lien your house was yanking your chain. That would NEVER hold up in court.
> 
> I left the union for many reasons,lack of work was high up there. The main reason I had for leaving the union was with the way I was treated by the BROTHERS at the hall.
> 
> I was in at the tail end of my 5th year apprenticeship and was also serving in the Army National Guard. I was activated and had to go away unexpectily for a few weeks. I called my instructor and told him and he said no problem,be safe. WELL when I came back the BA yelled and screamed at me like I was a 3 year old,had me removed from the job I was on and sent me to the bench. It turns out that he had a problem with my boss and really hated the guy,but that wasn't my fault. Now what he did was 10000000% illegal and I could have sued the crap out of them BROTHERS with the best lawyers the army had to offer. I didn't becuase at that point I realized that I didn't want anything to do with anyone who would treat anyone like that let alone someone who was off serving his country.
> 
> I went in there handed him my book and told him to stick it up his A$$ and never looked back.


WOW!!!! You let ONE guy make you give up and leave the union? How did you ever make it as far as you did? What are you going to do when a customer is upset with you or your prices/work? I'm not trying to disrespect you or put you down, sorry if it is coming off like that, but I would never let ONE asshole upset me so much that I just throw in the towel. That goes for anything, not just work.


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## sparks134

If it was the BA that was yelling at you, sounds like you didn't have your dues paid!!!


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## Brother Noah1

brian john said:


> When did the policy change?


 Brian did you read something different? Since Ed has been in office all that has been coming down hill from IO is to wine and dine the contractors and open the doors for those who wish to get into the IBEW.Now knowing politics the little that I do then I would say that there may be still some animosity from some local politicians.


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## backstay

I just wrote the local a letter of resignation and left. The union president was an ass, but the BA was more about trying to not burn bridges. I have talked to the BA a few times through the years and it has always been civil. When I left 7 years ago, the monthly was $1700. I payed myself more in benefits that this so they couldn’t compete.


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## miller_elex

backstay said:


> When I left 7 years ago, the monthly was $1700.


You mean dues were $170 a month, right??


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## robnj772

brison1208 said:


> WOW!!!! You let ONE guy make you give up and leave the union? How did you ever make it as far as you did? What are you going to do when a customer is upset with you or your prices/work? I'm not trying to disrespect you or put you down, sorry if it is coming off like that, but I would never let ONE asshole upset me so much that I just throw in the towel. That goes for anything, not just work.


 
.
Did you read what I said AND comprehend it or are you border line illiterate?

Some guys think there should be an electrical test to joing this forum to weed out the DIY'ers. I think there should be a reading comprehension exam to weed out the ones who can't understand what they read.


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## robnj772

sparks134 said:


> If it was the BA that was yelling at you, sounds like you didn't have your dues paid!!!


Did you read what I said AND comprehend it or are you border line illiterate?

Some guys think there should be an electrical test to joing this forum to weed out the DIY'ers. I think there should be a reading comprehension exam to weed out the ones who can't understand what they read


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## sparks134

robnj772 said:


> Did you read what I said AND comprehend it or are you border line illiterate?
> 
> Some guys think there should be an electrical test to joing this forum to weed out the DIY'ers. I think there should be a reading comprehension exam to weed out the ones who can't understand what they read


... and it's an attitude like that, that got you thrown off a union job. There are always two sides to every story, I'd like to here what the BA had to say. I know BA's, BA's don't do what you described for any old reason, sorry I don't buy that one. 

I'm glad I don't have to work with an asshat like you!


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## Sparky3

robnj772 said:


> Did you read what I said AND comprehend it or are you border line illiterate?
> 
> Some guys think there should be an electrical test to joing this forum to weed out the DIY'ers. I think there should be a reading comprehension exam to weed out the ones who can't understand what they read


Listen in my local we have alot of military and vets they are highly respected and when they are on my jobs I make sure they are put on the tit work. I don't know how true your story is maybe your just a d**ck.


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## oldtimer

Sparky3 said:


> Listen in my local we have alot of military and vets they are highly respected and when they are on my jobs I make sure they are put on the tit work. I don't know how true your story is maybe your just a d**ck.


 Punctuation makes writing more legible.:whistling2:


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## Zog

Brother Noah said:


> It is a pleasant surprise that this thread has been kept civil.


It was nice while it lasted. :jester:


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## brian john

Cool it off, or this thread will get closed like tha last 30 union topics.


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## Wirenuting

Sparky3 said:


> Listen in my local we have alot of military and vets they are highly respected and when they are on my jobs I make sure they are put on the tit work. I don't know how true your story is maybe your just a d**ck.


This morning I was in my truck watching as 3 union pipe fitters were walking into their job site. 30 feet away a few sailors began to raise the flag as the national anthem was being played for morning colors. 2 of them stopped and the youngest kept walking. 1 older fitter said something to the younger guy. The kid laughed and flipped the bird at the flag. 
The old guy waited till the anthem stopped then ran up and began to beat on the kid with his hard hat. And I mean "Beat" on him. Kicked the kid in in the ass and told him to go home. 

Enough said.


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## robnj772

sparks134 said:


> ... and it's an attitude like that, that got you thrown off a union job. There are always two sides to every story, I'd like to here what the BA had to say. I know BA's, BA's don't do what you described for any old reason, sorry I don't buy that one.
> 
> I'm glad I don't have to work with an asshat like you!


So the op asked and I answered honestly. I had this feeling in the back of my head that the attacks and bullsh!t was going to happend and sure enough you a$$holes did it.

So I am an asshat? REALLY? Have you ever dealt with Vince the BA from local 102 in Parrsipany,NJ in the early 1990's ? That is what I thought!

Yes your right I made the entire story up,I actually am just a gas attendant,none of what I posted actually happened, Gee I am so glad you caught me......

Lets see 9:17 AM and 2:22 PM. So you two clowns are home during the day starting crap when you should be working. How typical. Have fun riding the bench while the real electricians are out making money.


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## slickvic277

I think it's safe to say that Rob doesn't care for me much and frankly, I don't care for him.

BUT........I can not call him a liar. Why make something like that up?? PLUS I have seen similar behavior from agent's in my own local. Not to mention the 102 guy's (that's Patterson NJ right?) that I've been exposed to were scumbags and the agent I talked to out of that local was a lazy, thieving load.

So in conclusion to my point I'll say, yes there probably is more to the story but I'll take it on face value that this is more or less the way it went down.

On an a side note: the vets in my local are treated great and never have to spring for coffee.


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## brian john

I treat a vet like I treat anyone, we are all EQUAL, supposedly.


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## DoCJohnny

"Have you ever dealt with Vince the BA from local 102 in Parrsipany,NJ in the early 1990's ?" 

Wow, I do know Vinny, anyone who does would never doubt your story. I know his brother Bobby too, much nicer but hasn't done a thing since he got on the E_board. I had him on a small job that I was running and he was good for wiring up about 3 lights a day, maybe a receptacle. I didn't realize until now that we were talking about local 102.

I left the last name out for obvious reason.


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## DoCJohnny

I've always liked the idea of going out o my own doing service work, I just don't know if this is a bad time to try it 

I checked the NJ website for electrical licensing, I have all the requirements necessary for the contractor's license, I would just have to take the test which I am sure is no walk in the park.


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## papathud

*leaving the union*



DoCJohnny said:


> I was wondering if people who have left the IBEW can share their experiences.
> 
> How did you leave, just drop your book and go non-union? Shelf your book? Go out as a SALT and decide to stay out?
> 
> How have your experiences been? Any regrets? Any issues from your local?
> 
> I'm just exploring options now. You can't really expect a man to sustain a work schedule of 2 months working, 20 months off, 6 weeks working, 24 months off. At this point it doesn't look like things are going to change for quite some time.


 i just took an honorary withdrawl as well. i took a maintenance position in another local and they are trying to go after me,calling my ba telling them theyre gonna press charges etc etc because im doing electrical work in theyre local. i asked my ba what can they do to me and cant get a straight answer.its appearing to me that they just wanna try and make me sweat,or harrass me till i quit. i tried to do the right thing and get out gracefully but they are tarnishing my union experience beyond repair. i too like you have been forced to gtake a job when my local hasnt provided me with hardly any work for the last 4 or 5 years. probably average 4 to 5 months a year. whats a man to do? no health insurance half the time as well. by the way i took a maintenance job in a non union facility that has no agreement with any local ,any trade though they have hired union contractorss for projects. and theyre is currently a non union electrical contractor working on site. so in a nutshell i feel your pain and support your decision,or agree with it anyway.


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## chicken steve

Perhaps this is closer to Cletis's reverse salting

~CS~


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## HARRY304E

chicken steve said:


> Perhaps this is closer to Cletis's reverse salting
> 
> ~CS~


Perhaps..


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## cwsims84

I feel it depends greatly on your local. Every person is going to have a different experience based on this. My dad and Brother are foreman for the same company and in Local 118 ironworkers.. My dad is old school and loves it, my brother thinks they run it like chit... My dad has been in a long time and is well respected in the local and keeps his opinion to himself... My Brother is big scary Mother Fu*#er and people are intimidated by his insane work ethic and his take no chit attitude and his BIG opinions... Every person is going to experience things different, whether it be the people you end up dealing with or just the every day bs you may experience by the office staff.... My local is great and seem to treat everyone pretty good.. Finding the right place where you fit in is an important part of it. Not everyones opinions, attitudes, background or personal stuff they have going on fits well in a union.


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## Cletis

cwsims84 said:


> I feel it depends greatly on your local. Every person is going to have a different experience based on this. My dad and Brother are foreman for the same company and in Local 118 ironworkers.. My dad is old school and loves it, my brother thinks they run it like chit... My dad has been in a long time and is well respected in the local and keeps his opinion to himself... My Brother is big scary Mother Fu*#er and people are intimidated by his insane work ethic and his take no chit attitude and his BIG opinions... Every person is going to experience things different, whether it be the people you end up dealing with or just the every day bs you may experience by the office staff.... My local is great and seem to treat everyone pretty good.. Finding the right place where you fit in is an important part of it. Not everyones opinions, attitudes, background or personal stuff they have going on fits well in a union.


Easy to enter....hard to leave. Just like gangs and marriages


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## Ewcelectric

DoCJohnny said:


> That brings up another question for the people who left the union, how hard was it to find a job in an open shop? Did perspective employers think you were out to sabotage them and bring up labor board disputes like the bad type of SALTers have done in the past?


Personally I would be very hesitant to hire previous union member electricians. 
Experienced 1 SALT and a couple unpleasant run ins with members. 
It's unfortunate because I know plenty of guys are not like that.


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## N PHILLY KID

I retired but will share what I know others have done 

Honorary withdrawal bad move if you think you may want to return they don't have to let you return to the same local union and you lose IO pension 
However if you have more than 20 years you can apply for vested right to the 
I O pension 

Participating withdrawal you pay dues directly to the IO no longer a member of the local local union local must take you back 1 time keep IO pension it's not much about $ 12 a year you. Can return if & when things get better 


Drop ticket worse move than honorary withdrawal lose I O pension but may qualify for vested right but if you are vested in local and NEBF Pensions you will get them when you qualify 

Things to do whether you stay or go 
Request a copy of the locals work agreement 
Apply for a NJ qualified journeyman registration $ 60 no test
Apply for a Delaware journeyman card no test 
They will add to your credibility whether you leave or not 
And are required in those states 

As far as non signatory employment 
Maintenance jobs for school districts casinos ect. seem to the best move 
You may be able to swing this and keep your card in the local .

As far as the $ 2,500 fines they seem to stem from violations of the work agreement , if you are from where I think you are from they are supplying you with health insurance which keeps you subject to terms of the work agreement . I t may be as simple as removing you name from the out of work list , and getting your own health care . 

Good luck


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## eejack

N PHILLY KID said:


> Apply for a NJ qualified journeyman registration $ 60 no test
> They will add to your credibility whether you leave or not
> And are required in those states


Not to take away from the rest of your fine post, but the NJ qualified journeyman registration is not required for anything in NJ. I agree about the added credibility though.


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## Dillinger4

slickvic277 said:


> Rob I know we don't like each other but I don't blame you for what you did. I would have done the same thing.
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again, 102 is filled with some of the biggest scum I've ever met.


Local 102 is that bad?


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## RIVETER

DoCJohnny said:


> I was wondering if people who have left the IBEW can share their experiences.
> 
> How did you leave, just drop your book and go non-union? Shelf your book? Go out as a SALT and decide to stay out?
> 
> How have your experiences been? Any regrets? Any issues from your local?
> 
> I'm just exploring options now. You can't really expect a man to sustain a work schedule of 2 months working, 20 months off, 6 weeks working, 24 months off. At this point it doesn't look like things are going to change for quite some time.


 I think you are just fishing for a Thread. There is plenty of work out there if you are qualified and drug free.


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## ddyoung

I originally posted my story in the thread still on this topic page, in a thread called "picking up a dropped ticket"....It was a strike in 1987 that set off several yrs of travelling and moving before I took a withdrawal. I tried multiple times over the years to get back in *where I was living*.. but to no avail. 

I had my own shop for years , it was a good experience but has it's drawbacks. I would go back to working out of the IBEW tomorrow if I could. 

Believe it or not there are still some tradesmen that I know that have a sense of the bigger picture.. of how much it is in ALL of our collective interest to be a COLLECTIVE entity....It's better for us our children and our grandchildren. 

...That being said a person HAS to work...like that brother in Oregon said in an earlier post...It means survival for all trade unions to be reasonable, willing to adapt, and competing for marketshare. 

It's never a good idea to leave and go non-union...There are circumstances that make taking a withdrawal necessary, as in my case I think. But there should be a path back and I'll let you all know if I find one. I'm in the process of trying


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## sparky970

Haha, I read 2 pages before I looked at the date.


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## pete87

In 1970 the East Coast Union ranked on long hair . The West Coast was a bit different , guys just tucked it under a hat .





Pete


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## Cl906um

Just had a Marty mc fly moment with this thread.


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## RemoPearl

Loose Neutral said:


> I actually know a guy who did that exact thing. Blew his 401k on hookers and crack.


 there's a ZZ top movie on netflix,,,,,,,the drummer said he did that after a tour,,,,,,


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## TechieBecky

DoCJohnny said:


> I hope people who have left the union could share their experiences and we could avoid getting into a union versus merit shop debate.


I'm bumping this thread because I'm curious to know what the process is now vs 10 years ago when this thread started.


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## backstay

TechieBecky said:


> I'm bumping this thread because I'm curious to know what the process is now vs 10 years ago when this thread started.


You still should start a new thread.


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## jlectrics

And what happened to docJohnny that he got banned? Maybe you left the union and that’s why?


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## Wardenclyffe

_Jimmy Hoffa left the union,..._


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