# Running conduit... over a suspended ceiling



## Mike in Canada

I spent most of today, and will likely spend all of tomorrow, running 1" and 3/4" EMT on the beams above a suspended ceiling. This is irritating. You can't use a ladder tall enough to reach the beams without standing on the top step. I think it's taking roughly five times longer to run the pipe than it would in a 'normal' situation with a scissor-lift. The one concession to speed I made was to pick up a box of Caddy clips to fasten the pipe to the beam flanges instead of using 1H clips and tek screws. Waaaaaaaay faster. Drilling while standing on the top of a step-ladder really sucks.

Mike


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## 480sparky

Can you use two ladders? One tall enough to remove/replace the tiles, and the other tall enough to get above the grid and to the iron?


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## MDShunk

I use two methods. Bang-on Caddy hangers if I can reach the bar joists. Extra tie wires and bat wings if I can't. I'm probably guilty of laying a pipe run or two on the grid. Maybe? :laughing:


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## BuzzKill

MDShunk said:


> I use two methods. Bang-on Caddy hangers if I can reach the bar joists. Extra tie wires and bat wings if I can't. I'm probably guilty of laying a pipe run or two on the grid. Maybe? :laughing:


I remember that code change realllly sucking; it was such a breeze to run conduit in between the roof and the joists.


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## jwjrw

I like for 1 guy to start adding 10 ft sections and pushing it foward until the run is done. Then I go back and attach it.


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## fraydo

Screw it! Just use a few rolls of MC.....rope and run!:shifty:


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## Mike in Canada

This conduit is actually for data. We want to be able to pull whatever needs to be pulled, so if we change our networking or phone system we can do it without undue grief. 

Mike


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## william1978

Sounds like the perfect situation for a A frame ladder.


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## moman

Mike in Canada said:


> I spent most of today, and will likely spend all of tomorrow, running 1" and 3/4" EMT on the beams above a suspended ceiling. This is irritating. You can't use a ladder tall enough to reach the beams without standing on the top step. I think it's taking roughly five times longer to run the pipe than it would in a 'normal' situation with a scissor-lift. The one concession to speed I made was to pick up a box of Caddy clips to fasten the pipe to the beam flanges instead of using 1H clips and tek screws. Waaaaaaaay faster. Drilling while standing on the top of a step-ladder really sucks.
> 
> Mike


We just shoot rods in the ceiling and use caddy clips. We use the hilti pole and gun and it is not that bad. If its wood framed there is a gun that attaches a lag with an eyehole and a peice of ceiling wire. same concept use a long pole so that you don't have to drill on the top step of a ladder.


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## Wireless

william1978 said:


> Sounds like the perfect situation for a A frame ladder.


Do you mean trestle ladder?

http://www.amazon.com/Louisville-Ladder-FX1112-300-Pound-Fiberglass/dp/B001BIXNJA


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## nitro71

Sounds like unsafe job conditions and a lift should have been rented. Or figured out a way to use a ladder safely.


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## running dummy

Yea I like the idea of shooting some pencil rod and using bat wings. That or just hang em on the existing ceiling wire and call it a day...


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## Toronto Sparky

Bat wings are great as long as a level ceiling is not a requirement..


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## william1978

Wireless said:


> Do you mean trestle ladder?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Louisville-Ladder-FX1112-300-Pound-Fiberglass/dp/B001BIXNJA


 Yea that is the ladder. We call them A frame ladders here.:thumbsup:


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## mikeh32

why are you using conduit for data/phone? 

use some hilti hooks and call it a day. in the schools im doing now, we use hiltis, then just toss it on the grid and clip it up. takes about an hr to do 28 runs a room


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## Toronto Sparky

Or use one of those lifts that fit up though a 2X2 ceiling tile..
I hate those things.. You cant even bend down to get a tool..

After all we here in Canada are not allowed to work off a ladder.. 

http://www.csao.org/UploadFiles/Safety_Topics/Fall_Protection/Working_From_Ladders.pdf


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## Bob Badger

Toronto Sparky said:


> After all we here in Canada are not allowed to work off a ladder..
> 
> http://www.csao.org/UploadFiles/Safety_Topics/Fall_Protection/Working_From_Ladders.pdf


Holy crap, and that sheet leaves a of room for interpretation.

You cannot carry material while on a ladder, what PITA.


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## fraydo

Mike in Canada said:


> This conduit is actually for data. We want to be able to pull whatever needs to be pulled, so if we change our networking or phone system we can do it without undue grief.
> 
> Mike


Maybe you should go wireless or smoke signals:jester:. Seriously, I also think bang on caddys and a steady pace. Genie lifts are great for getting between the grids but are a PITA to move and set up. Whenever I can I'll take all the tiles off on my route and then cover it back when I'm done.


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## hardworkingstiff

Mike in Canada said:


> The one concession to speed I made was to pick up a box of Caddy clips to fasten the pipe to the beam flanges instead of using 1H clips and tek screws. Waaaaaaaay faster. Drilling while standing on the top of a step-ladder really sucks.
> 
> Mike


I guess you can't get on top of the bottom cord of the beam (just tie it down on top)? What kind of beam? Are you perpendicular or parallel to the beam?


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## Vintage Sounds

Bob Badger said:


> Holy crap, and that sheet leaves a of room for interpretation.
> 
> You cannot carry material while on a ladder, what PITA.


In reality everyone works on ladders. If a safety inspector shows up, anyone who is up on a ladder comes down and stands around doing nothing until he's gone. Then, back to getting work done where a lift or scaffold couldn't reasonably go. They can't ticket anyone unless they are caught in the act so when they arrive at a site usually all they find are a bunch of ladders set up underneath things that obviously were being worked on, but with nobody on any of them.

Besides who is really going to get a scaffold set up for 2 minutes of pulling BX across a ceiling or something?


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## idontknow

Toronto Sparky said:


> Bat wings are great as long as a level ceiling is not a requirement..


When we would run conduits and MC we'd run our own grid wires. One job we had to paint the ends red so as top mark them as ours.


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## idontknow

Also have you tried these? They're caddy clips 70824
We use em by pretying the grid wire to the clips, sleeve them in a piece of 1/2" emt to line up the clip to the red iron, and smack it in place with a long bender handle. After that you can batwing clip all the pipe you want to the grid wire.


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## Mike in Canada

idontknow said:


> Also have you tried these? They're caddy clips 70824


 I like that idea... In this case I'm running right on the bottom flanges of the roof trusses which are a surprisingly long way above the suspended ceiling... seven feet or so. This is what is causing the real irritation... the ladder can't be over 8' to fit under the ceiling, and really anything taller than 6' is a pain to get through the doors of the offices and whatnot, but the surface the conduit is running on is ~15 feet up. Anyway, the job is virtually done. They added another data location, so I'm going to pipe it this morning, and that will be it.

Mike


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## Southeast Power

I had a ceiling job to install 1-1/4" EMT about 100' through a maze of equipment that had very little access around and could not be turned off or disturbed. The ceiling was packed with duct work.
I designed a whole complicated hanger system and staged all of my materials in one small area. Planned on staying about three and a half days. One day to mobilize in, one and a half days of work, one day to pack out.
One side had a loft, the other side terminated in the ceiling above an office.
I took a tile out of the office ceiling about where I needed to stop the conduit and made the trip back to the other side in the loft. I lifted out the tile in the loft and looked toward the office area.
The only light I could see was coming from the tile I lifted out. The exact path I needed was a small opening about 4" square. Perfect!!
I cut a one liter bottle open and duct taped it to the end of the pipe.
It had to run about 45 degrees to the trusses. 
I was done with the job, including a string in the pipe within the hour.

For every story like that, I have five that maybe took a little longer. :whistling2:


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## Navyguy

running dummy said:


> Yea I like the idea of shooting some pencil rod and using bat wings. That or just hang em on the existing ceiling wire and call it a day...


What are "Bat Wings"?

In Canada (Ontario) the inspectors are pretty stringent on attachment methods for wire and cable. Generally they don't like anything hung on or laid on the drop ceiling elements. They usually want it supported to the beams/joists or the decking/sheeting.

That is why you tend to see a lot of cantruss/unistrut used up here.

Cheers


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## Toronto Sparky

We call them moustache clips here in Ontario.. Made by Caddy.


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## randas

Toronto Sparky said:


> We call them moustache clips here in Ontario.. Made by Caddy.


KX clips if you wanna get technical :icon_wink:


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## Navyguy

Toronto Sparky said:


> We call them moustache clips here in Ontario.. Made by Caddy.


Thanks, that is what I thought, but wanted to make sure. That is what I love about this trade, we are all the same, yet slightly different.

Cheers


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## John Valdes

BuzzKill said:


> I remember that code change realllly sucking; it was such a breeze to run conduit in between the roof and the joists.


What do you mean? I am not understanding Buzzy.



william1978 said:


> Sounds like the perfect situation for a A frame ladder.


Never. Never. Never. But it would fit. 



running dummy said:


> Yea I like the idea of shooting some pencil rod and using bat wings. That or just hang em on the existing ceiling wire and call it a day...


I don't think you can hang it on the ceiling wire? You need your own hangers?



Navyguy said:


> Thanks, that is what I thought, but wanted to make sure. That is what I love about this trade, we are all the same, yet slightly different.
> 
> Cheers


That's what I hate about this trade. When I moved here everyone looked at me like I was a space alien because I asked for unistrut and they call it Kindorf around here.


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## nitro71

What is it with Canadian contractors thinking standing on top of a ladder to work is ok?


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## van2977

yes there is a grid ceiling guy on my job using something similar. First time I saw it I wanted one for those hard to reach roofs.


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## Toronto Sparky

nitro71 said:


> What is it with Canadian contractors thinking standing on top of a ladder to work is ok?



Not this one... I had my spill off a small aluminum ladder and it took away most of my sense of smell and taste with a double brain hemorrhage and 6 months of rehab.

Five footer ! 

Really don't remember what happened but I think I tried to stand with one leg on each side of the ladder like most do with the wooden ladders that I was too lazy to go to the truck and grab. 

Funny thing about aluminum ladders ... No step on other side


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## wayne g

Being on the top run and drilling is not fun and dangerous. They do rent a lift that fits inside a 2 by 4 foot padded ceiling but if you are not doing enough work its costly to rent.


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## Shockdoc

Why not transition to greenfield over susp.cieling area and bow tie to support wires then transition back to EMT ? Goes a lot faster and easier than hard conduit.


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## Wingnut

DFN it.

Tie a wire to any thing you can find.


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## sparky723

Wireless said:


> Do you mean trestle ladder?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Louisville-Ladder-FX1112-300-Pound-Fiberglass/dp/B001BIXNJA


Use that ladder and when you climb that straight vertical section you can only use one hand to work. The other is holding the ladder trying to keep you from going through the grid to the floor below. I would not use this ladder for what the OP states he is doing.


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## sparky723

running dummy said:


> Yea I like the idea of shooting some pencil rod and using bat wings. That or just hang em on the existing ceiling wire and call it a day...


You kidding? you cant hang on existing wire.


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## running dummy

Guys it was more of a joke. Thats why I said shoot your own rod in the first part of my post... sheesh tough crowd ha ha


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