# question



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

277/110 in the same conduit.......what are some thoughts on this practice. Say I have a 277/480 panel, transformer and a 110/208 panel all right in a row like we have all done a collective million times. And way on the other side of a warehouse is a new small office that needs one 277 light circuit and a few plugs. Out of each panel into a j-box and a long run of pipe with two circuits in it. 277 and 110. Pro or con?


----------



## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> 277/110 in the same conduit.......what are some thoughts on this practice. Say I have a 277/480 panel, transformer and a 110/208 panel all right in a row like we have all done a collective million times. And way on the other side of a warehouse is a new small office that needs one 277 light circuit and a few plugs. Out of each panel into a j-box and a long run of pipe with two circuits in it. 277 and 110. Pro or con?


Perfectly legal-- saves on conduit and labor.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> 277/110 in the same conduit.......what are some thoughts on this practice. Say I have a 277/480 panel, transformer and a 110/208 panel all right in a row like we have all done a collective million times. And way on the other side of a warehouse is a new small office that needs one 277 light circuit and a few plugs. Out of each panel into a j-box and a long run of pipe with two circuits in it. 277 and 110. Pro or con?


I have no trouble at all with this practice. I would do it in a second if there was raceway space available.


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

when you get to the other end be careful about 277 and 120 devices together... without using a divider.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I actually have not had to do this for some time, but I back in gods country (Michigan) I did it quite a bit in some industrial warehouses I was involved with, here in CA I was almost fired for even suggestion it on one job (port of long beach). and have asked a few guys since then who all told me no, I always 90% sure it was fine but thought it would be a good topic to discuss.


----------



## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> I actually have not had to do this for some time, but I back in gods country (Michigan) I did it quite a bit in some industrial warehouses I was involved with, here in CA I was almost fired for even suggestion it on one job (port of long beach). and have asked a few guys since then who all told me no, I always 90% sure it was fine but thought it would be a good topic to discuss.


Of course, there could be a local amendment in CA against it.


----------



## JRent (Jul 1, 2008)

Im in Ca, and we dont do that, i dont know if its because of code or what


----------



## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Been there done that!
In the late 80's and early 90's I did a lot of warehouse spaces. The service was in the back and the offices in front. I ran 1 conduit up to the front for the 277 volt office lighting and the receptacles.
As long as the conductors are rated rated for the higher voltage your ok.


----------



## fnfs2000 (Jan 31, 2009)

It's been a nono, on every job I've been on.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

fnfs2000 said:


> It's been a nono, on every job I've been on.



what was the reason for not doing it? I think I've heard 5-6 excuses...I mean reason.:thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> what was the reason for not doing it? I think I've heard 5-6 excuses...I mean reason.:thumbsup:



There is no reason other than job specs or phantom codes. The NEC allows the practice.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Peter D said:


> phantom codes.


That's a funny new one, I always said those are "uncle bob's codes".


----------



## fnfs2000 (Jan 31, 2009)

Dito, I think it's a combination of job spec and contractor preference. And in some cases just because the local inspector says so because he can. Its legally OK, but from a best practices standpoint it isn't friendly for maintenance or future use and expansion.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

fnfs2000 said:


> Dito, Its legally OK, but from a best practices standpoint it isn't friendly for maintenance or future use and expansion.



Those are sharp words buddy.


----------



## fnfs2000 (Jan 31, 2009)

Not meant to be sharp, just possibly thought provoking. Many of us get stuck in the thought processes of what we are doing, it sure can be easier to do all kinds of "shortcuts" in new construction. And in many cases will not cause any problems, but it is what it is.


----------



## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

I've had the 277 and 120 in the same J-box, but not the same pipe. But I'm pretty sure it's legal. It helps if you've got brown, orange, yellow wires. I know it's NEC legal. I'd have to look at Chicago.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

fnfs2000 said:


> Not meant to be sharp, just possibly thought provoking. Many of us get stuck in the thought processes of what we are doing, it sure can be easier to do all kinds of "shortcuts" in new construction. And in many cases will not cause any problems, but it is what it is.



Your right to a degree, Hopefully anyone to do this would use appropriate colors.........and I have seen it go wrong to the expense of a few computers, it seems an older guy I worked with mistook the 277 gray for a ungrounded conductor and no one tested anything......boom ssssssss, Do you smell smoke?


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

It's perfectly legal, but I wouldn't do it as a general rule. For one office, sure, but I would label very carefully BOTH sides of every J-box cover. Absolutely essential to use different colors for each neutral too.


----------



## tombs (May 26, 2011)

I agree with inphase277. Label, label, label! I believe dividers are required in boxes with devices of different voltages. Label all wires and all jboxes(Power from different sources).


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

tombs said:


> I agree with inphase277. Label, label, label! I believe dividers are required in boxes with devices of different voltages. Label all wires and all jboxes(Power from different sources).


First this is a long dead thread. 

Secondly dividers are not generally required.

What is required is a divider between devices with more than 300 volts potential between them. 



> *
> 404.8(B) Voltage Between Adjacent Devices.* A snap switch
> shall not be grouped or ganged in enclosures with other
> snap switches, receptacles, or similar devices, unless they
> ...


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

New commercial construction, we could not do this. In fact all J-boxes, are  labeled with the Voltage and panel I'd.

This one to me is a safety issue, who wants suprises ! All wiring color coded according to voltage.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

dronai said:


> New commercial construction, we could not do this.


We do this all the time in new commercial construction and it baffles me why anyone would not.


There is absolutely no reason not to.


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

BBQ said:


> We do this all the time in new commercial construction and it baffles me why anyone would not.
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no reason not to.


 
Do you mean mix ? If people are doing this, I've never seen it yet. As for the reason not to, I think it's obvious.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

dronai said:


> Do you mean mix ? If people are doing this, I've never seen it yet. As for the reason not to, I think it's obvious.


The Code allows it. But as a general rule alot of guys don't do it, or assume that it is forbidden by Code.

Personally, I limit it to certain applications. For example, if I have a contactor cabinet controlling both 277 and 120 V lighting, then it would make sense to feed as many lights of both voltages as you could from the same conduit.

As a general rule, I don't mix 277 V lighting circuits and 120 V receptacle circuits in the same pipe.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I can think of at least one pipe that has 120/240VAC, 277/480VAC, 600VAC, and 125VDC all in one conduit. 

As long as you keep your labeling straight, it's legit.

-John


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

dronai said:


> This one to me is a safety issue, who wants suprises !


Well, I suppose an amateur who can't use a voltage meter would have a surprise. A professional electrician would not. :thumbsup:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Peter D said:


> Well, I suppose an amateur who can't use a voltage meter would have a surprise. A professional electrician would not. :thumbsup:


 

No comment :no:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Looks like another Ca. or County, rule.

This one makes sense to me.

Blue sky, your starting to worry me.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Well, I suppose an amateur who can't use a voltage meter would have a surprise. A professional electrician would not. :thumbsup:


You turned off the power to work "safe".. your meter will not work..


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Well, I suppose an amateur who can't use a voltage meter would have a surprise. A professional electrician would not. :thumbsup:



Huh..... So some guy named Peter got surprised. No surprise there. :1eye::jester:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> You turned off the power to work "safe".. your meter will not work..


Don't try to take Tools place.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Don't try to take Tools place.


:no:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I do it all the time, especially for 120 control conductors. If it saves me time and money and I don't have to run more conduit I'm doing it.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

dronai said:


> Looks like another Ca. or County, rule.
> 
> This one makes sense to me.
> 
> Blue sky, your starting to worry me.


It doesn't make sense to me to create a rule to protect someone unqualified. Yet sadly the NEC is already heading down that path. A trained professional can open a junction box and identify what kind of system he is dealing with. A hack aka a B4T can not. :icon_wink:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Huh..... So some guy named Peter got surprised. No surprise there. :1eye::jester:


Well it did happen to me one time. :whistling:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> You turned off the power to work "safe".. your meter will not work..


OK troll boy. Apparently you must not be familiar with OSHA rules that allow working live for troubleshooting.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> OK troll boy. Apparently you must not be familiar with OSHA rules that allow working live for troubleshooting.


:sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> A hack aka a B4T can not. :icon_wink:


At least I know how to install straps without ruining the wood siding, and the correct way to demo a panel, and how to lay out a work space so nothing goes to waste because of bad planning.. :no:

But that is OK rookie for you to call me a hack..since that is all you know how to do..

Someday you will make it to the "advanced class".. and learn how to THINK before you start using your hand tools.. :thumbsup:


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Jesus, you two, get a room.

-John


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Someday you will make it to the "advanced class".. and learn how to THINK before you start using your hand tools.. :thumbsup:


You must not have made it to the advanced class yet because that's where they tell you to get a cell phone. :thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> At least I know how to install straps without ruining the wood siding, and the correct way to demo a panel, and how to lay out a work space so nothing goes to waste because of bad planning.. :no:


Post some pictures of your service changes. Otherwise, you're full of hot air.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You must not have made it to the advanced class yet because that's where they tell you to get a cell phone. :thumbsup:


I got a cell phone almost (15) years ago..please try again.. _:no:_..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I got a cell phone almost (15) years ago..please try again.. _:no:_..


Beepers don't count.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

​


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> ​


It delivers entertainment!


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Beepers don't count.


When I got a beeper, I needed a cell phone to call people back.. DUH..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> When I got a beeper, I needed a cell phone to call people back.. DUH..


You are a truly unique individual. :blink:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> I do it all the time, *especially for 120 control* conductors. If it saves me time and money and I don't have to run more conduit I'm doing it.


 
I'm talking about new buildings, lighting off the 277V pnl, and all receptacles off the 110V

That's very typical in my state. (unless other Calif. say different) Read the original OP post.

Maybe not your State for new construction. And you do industrial work.

Not saying I'm right, telling you people what we are *allowed* to do here.

*Disclaimer- As far as I know


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I see a lot of you compete in the "lowest bidder" market.

How are you merging stuff from 2 or 3 or 4 panels into the same junction box anyway? That has to be ugly spaghetti work!

If it were my business or my building, I wouldn't. So why would I do it to customers?

I guess quality customers get quality work and nickel-and-diming companies get spaghetti electricians.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

dronai said:


> That's very typical in my state. (unless other Calif. say different) Read the original OP post....*Disclaimer- As far as I know


If I were you I'd read the CEC. They still do the whole California electric code thing right? 

Here we follow just the unamended NEC and can do it in new and old work no problem. 



kaboler said:


> I see a lot of you compete in the "lowest bidder" market.
> 
> How are you merging stuff from 2 or 3 or 4 panels into the same junction box anyway? That has to be ugly spaghetti work!
> 
> ...


Stop being stupid. It is not at all hard to route wires neatly in a j box.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


>


 :thumbup::thumbup::laughing::laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

tombs said:


> I agree with inphase277. Label, label, label! I believe dividers are required in boxes with devices of different voltages. Label all wires and all jboxes(Power from different sources).


Welcome to the forum...:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## tgreen (Sep 14, 2010)

Proper labeling is all that is needed. This is not to help the untrained hack, but to provide a safe and quality installation.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

tgreen said:


> Proper labeling is all that is needed. This is not to help the untrained hack, but to provide a safe and quality installation.


I agree it takes a little more time but it is worth it in the end..


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> It's perfectly legal, but I wouldn't do it as a general rule. For one office, sure, but I would label very carefully BOTH sides of every J-box cover. Absolutely essential to use different colors for each neutral too.


 

:thumbsup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> When I got a beeper, I needed a cell phone to call people back.. DUH..


I have better luck trying to understand quantum physics.:laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kaboler said:


> I see a lot of you compete in the "lowest bidder" market.
> 
> How are you merging stuff from 2 or 3 or 4 panels into the same junction box anyway? That has to be ugly spaghetti work!
> 
> ...


OK troll. :laughing:

Here is a typical switchboard we work on, it has both 208Y/120 and 480Y/277 panels. I don't see any spaghetti.


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> If I were you I'd read the CEC. They still do the whole California electric code thing right?
> 
> Here we follow just the unamended NEC* (Nevada electric code)* and can do it in new and old work no problem.
> 
> Now your talking


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

kaboler said:


> I see a lot of you compete in the "lowest bidder" market...................



And it's called Free Enterprise. (At least it was up until the 50's when the gubbamint got fat & lazy.)


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

dronai said:


> Now your talking


:lol: :lol:


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Canadian codebook:

Raceways (general)

12-904: Conductors in raceways

2) No raceway or compartment of a multiple-channel raceway shall contain conductors that are connected to different power or distribution transformers or other different sources of voltage, except where the conductors
a) are separated by the metal armour or metal sheath of cable assemblies of the types listed in Table 19;
b) are separated by a barrier of sheet steel not less than 1.34mm thick or flame-retardant... blah blah...
c) are used for the supply and or control of remote devices....


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

BBQ said:


> OK troll. :laughing:
> 
> Here is a typical switchboard we work on, it has both 208Y/120 and 480Y/277 panels. I don't see any spaghetti.


It's nice. I got to work around a lot of that stuff at an oil refinery, but with TONS of Tec cable.

Aren't we talking about running mixed voltages in the same conduit?


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

480sparky said:


> And it's called Free Enterprise. (At least it was up until the 50's when the gubbamint got fat & lazy.)


Sell the sizzle and not the steak!

The company I work for never sells its lowest bid. It bids above market, and we do awesome work, with no problems. If a company wants lowest-bidders, they can expect to get no bushings in BX, lighting conductors twisted together using the force of the wirenut, missing grounds, etc.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kaboler said:


> Aren't we talking about running mixed voltages in the same conduit?


Yes, and that gear contains mixed voltages and the conduits leaving it contain mixed voltages, you had said some foolishness about that making things look like spaghetti.


----------



## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

kaboler said:


> Sell the sizzle and not the steak!
> 
> The company I work for never sells its lowest bid. It bids above market, and we do awesome work, with no problems. If a company wants lowest-bidders, they can expect to get no bushings in BX, lighting conductors twisted together using the force of the wirenut, missing grounds, etc.


 Kaboler,

I was thinking about saying something like- If this place hired YOU, not only are they low bidder, but also desperate...

But that would be too easy.:no:

I, have come to the conclusion that you are not an apprentice, nor do you do any electrical work at all.

I do believe the picture of you with a shovel was actually you performing your normal duties. Maybe you work landscaping, or septic install, or whatever. Its nothing to be ashamed of.

come clean, and get it off your chest.


----------



## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

kaboler said:


> Sell the sizzle and not the steak!
> 
> The company I work for never sells its lowest bid. It bids above market, and we do awesome work, with no problems. If a company wants lowest-bidders, they can expect to get no bushings in BX, lighting conductors twisted together using the force of the wirenut, missing grounds, etc.


Horse Pucky!!! Sell the sizzle? that just means the steak is sh*t and you want to baffle 'em with B.S. I hire someone, I want a fair price reflected by the quality and quantity of the work. I don't care if my plumber comes to the house in a nice truck, clean uniform, etc... I want my toilet to flush when he's done and don't want to get taken to the cleaners in the process. A small, low overhead co. is more than capable of doing workman like, safe, and cost efficient electrical work. Your comments about no bushings, wirenuts to tie connections together, etc.. show that you are a wet behind the ears, big mouth first year apprentice who don't know Sh*t from shinola but wants to talk nuclear physics.....


----------



## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Don't feed the trolls!!!!!


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Yes, and that gear contains mixed voltages and the conduits leaving it contain mixed voltages, you had said some foolishness about that making things look like spaghetti.


Show me some conduit in your picture and maybe it can be relevant.


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Jmohl said:


> Horse Pucky!!! Sell the sizzle? that just means the steak is sh*t and you want to baffle 'em with B.S. I hire someone, I want a fair price reflected by the quality and quantity of the work. I don't care if my plumber comes to the house in a nice truck, clean uniform, etc... I want my toilet to flush when he's done and don't want to get taken to the cleaners in the process. A small, low overhead co. is more than capable of doing workman like, safe, and cost efficient electrical work. Your comments about no bushings, wirenuts to tie connections together, etc.. show that you are a wet behind the ears, big mouth first year apprentice who don't know Sh*t from shinola but wants to talk nuclear physics.....


So far all you are doing is yapping your fat mouth. Get our your codebook and show me where my codebook reference is wrong.


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

lefleuron said:


> Kaboler,
> I, have come to the conclusion that you are not an apprentice, nor do you do any electrical work at all.


At least you trashed me with some style!


----------



## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Troll, get back under your bridge!!!!!!


----------



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Jmohl said:


> Troll, get back under your bridge!!!!!!


Don't feed the troll!!!!!!


----------



## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Ok Kaboler, here ya go.. OP is an American see, therefore NEC not CEC applies. NEC 2008 300.3(C)(1). conductor 600v nominal or less, ac or dc shall be permitted to occupy the same raceway, duct, or enclosure provided the insulation is rated to the maximum voltage applied to any conductor in the raceway. 

You call hack, talk sh*t, but you are a smart a$$ know-it-all punk who would end up with his AZZ kicked on ANY jobsite in the states for being one. The scary part is, that in a few years time, barring any unforseen "accident" you may very well become a jw in your own right. The things you have the potential to screw up astound and frighten real electricians.


----------



## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

kaboler said:


> I see a lot of you compete in the "lowest bidder" market.
> 
> How are you merging stuff from 2 or 3 or 4 panels into the same junction box anyway? That has to be ugly spaghetti work!
> 
> ...


Do you ever shut it? Hey kiddo, the adults are talking.


----------



## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

kaboler said:


> At least you trashed me with some style!


 It was not hard to trash you, finding new ways of doing this is getting difficult though.


----------



## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Actually Kaboler, like Lefleuron said, it isn't hard to thrash you, what's almost impossible is to pass on the opportunity to do so. You present us with so many options as to where to show your imbicilic nature. Now go away, before I taunt you another time...... (monty python rox)!


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kaboler said:


> The company I work for never sells its lowest bid. It bids above market, and we do awesome work, with no problems.


Yeah, and they pay you in rainbows and unicorns. :laughing:


----------



## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

Personally I would try to stay away from mixing different voltages. That's the way I was told as a young pup. But in you're scenario why not. As long as the wire colors are not all the same.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

kaboler said:


> The company I work for never sells its lowest bid. It bids above market, and we do awesome work, with no problems. If a company wants lowest-bidders, they can expect to get no bushings in BX, lighting conductors twisted together using the force of the wirenut, missing grounds, etc.



1st off you are showing just how green, ignorant or stupid you are.

2nd I bet you a weeks pay, if I was hired to inspect your companies projects I could come up with a long list. I do independent inspections and NO JOB is perfect.

3rd As an apprentice what do you know about how they do and don’t get work?

Lastly, in 40 years I have worked with a few apprentices that had diarrhea of the mouth like you. THE MADE THE *WORST* JW’s. Hope this isn’t you.

If you worked for my firm I would listen to some of what you say (as even the greenest workers have some good ideas). But after a while I would tell you to SHUT UP, get to work and do your job. You would typically be doing the low end work, until you learned some humility or made a permanent trip to the bench.

I treat my apprentices VERY WELL, above union benefits, they get a bonus and vacation (not mandated by our local). Some of me lead men were apprentices with my firm. But green mouth running PIAs.........
You’d be packing your K-Mart tools and hitting the road in a hot second.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

kaboler said:


> The company I work for never sells its lowest bid. It bids above market, and we do awesome work, with no problems. If a company wants lowest-bidders, they can expect to get no bushings in BX, lighting conductors twisted together using the force of the wirenut, missing grounds, etc.



1st off you are showing just how green, ignorant or stupid you are.

2nd I bet you a weeks pay, if I was hired to inspect your companies projects I could come up with a long list. I do independent inspections and NO JOB is perfect.

3rd As an apprentice what do you know about how they do and don’t get work?

Lastly, in 40 years I have worked with a few apprentices that had diarrhea of the mouth like you. THE MADE THE *WORST* JW’s. Hope this isn’t you.

If you worked for my firm I would listen to some of what you say (as even the greenest workers have some good ideas). But after a while I would tell you to SHUT UP, get to work and do your job. You would typically be doing the low end work, until you learned some humility or made a permanent trip to the bench.

I treat my apprentices VERY WELL, above union benefits, they get a bonus and vacation (not mandated by our local). Some of me lead men were apprentices with my firm. But green mouth running PIAs.........
You’d be packing your K-Mart tools and hitting the road in a hot second.


----------



## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

B4T said:


> At least I know how to install straps without ruining the wood siding, and the correct way to demo a panel, and how to lay out a work space so nothing goes to waste because of bad planning.. :no:
> 
> But that is OK rookie for you to call me a hack..since that is all you know how to do..
> 
> Someday you will make it to the "advanced class".. and learn how to THINK before you start using your hand tools.. :thumbsup:


You're the biggest hack on here and you don't even know it.

You actually burried junction boxes dude. It doesn't get much more hack than that. You should go back to being a first year.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jza said:


> You're the_ biggest hack on _here and you don't even know it.
> r.




Can we drop this line it has gotten OLD.


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> 1st off you are showing just how green, ignorant or stupid you are.
> 
> 2nd I bet you a weeks pay, if I was hired to inspect your companies projects I could come up with a long list. I do independent inspections and NO JOB is perfect.
> 
> ...





brian john said:


> 1st off you are showing just how green, ignorant or stupid you are.
> 
> 2nd I bet you a weeks pay, if I was hired to inspect your companies projects I could come up with a long list. I do independent inspections and NO JOB is perfect.
> 
> ...


If somethings worth saying once, it's worth saying twice.

:clap::thumbup::clap::thumbup::clap::thumbup:


----------

