# What kind of trouble will I be in?



## exploding (Apr 20, 2015)

Not quite sure if this is the right forum. I've been working for a residential electrician for roughly a year and a half. Occasionally he will leave the job site to go to the parts house, and I will remain working. He usually just leaves a small list of simple wire pulls, and checks what I've done when he returns. I don't feel like he is giving me any difficult or unsafe tasks. Even far less frequently, he will leave for almost half the day to tackle errands, meet with other builders etc etc. What kind of rules are being broken here? What kind of trouble would I be in if an inspector came by? Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

exploding said:


> Not quite sure if this is the right forum. I've been working for a residential electrician for roughly a year and a half. Occasionally he will leave the job site to go to the parts house, and I will remain working. He usually just leaves a small list of simple wire pulls, and checks what I've done when he returns. I don't feel like he is giving me any difficult or unsafe tasks. Even far less frequently, he will leave for almost half the day to tackle errands, meet with other builders etc etc. What kind of rules are being broken here? What kind of trouble would I be in if an inspector came by? Thanks! :thumbsup:


Keep a sharpening stone and some oil handy. When you see an inspector pull up, drop everything and start sharpening your knife. Tell the inspector that was what you were supposed to do till the boss came back.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Keep a sharpening stone and some oil handy. When you see an inspector pull up, drop everything and start sharpening your knife. Tell the inspector that was what you were supposed to do till the boss came back.


you can do better than that !! pick up a broom and clean the entire jobsite ! that will make everyone happy and your boss will be a star ! when the inspector comes near you to ask a question kick up a lot of dust with the broom and act like a r.etard. if you are going to sharpen anything, sharpen the drill bits.


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## exploding (Apr 20, 2015)

wildleg said:


> you can do better than that !! pick up a broom and clean the entire jobsite ! that will make everyone happy and your boss will be a star ! when the inspector comes near you to ask a question *kick up a lot of dust with the broom and act like a r.etard*. if you are going to sharpen anything, sharpen the drill bits.


I totally lol'd


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

No trouble, zip, zero


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

IF this happens (inspector quizzing you), just tell him you are doing what your boss told you to do.

I think you are worried about nothing. 

Do you feel you are being taken advantage of? What do you believe your boss should be doing about this?


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## exploding (Apr 20, 2015)

He has basically told me the same thing you guys have. He also said that there should be a 1:1 ratio of electricians to helpers while doing electrical work and that if an inspector shows up, just start sweeping. I suppose I'm O.K. with it, because I doubt it is likely that one shows up randomly. I enjoy working at my own pace and really getting to put all of the pieces together in my own head. What would the repercussions be? Do a lot of small companies do this?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

exploding said:


> What would the repercussions be?


 To you, a verbal warning at worst.


> Do a lot of small companies do this?


 Oh yes. In NC, there is very little to no enforcement of these rules.

Where in NC are you located?


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

I've never been "carded" nor have I seen or heard of anyone being carded on any job I've ever been on.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

This is from NH:

Supervision of Apprentice and Journeyman Electricians (a) Electrical installations performed by an apprentice electrician shall be directly supervised by a master or journeyman electrician *at all times.*

(b) Electrical installations performed by a journeyman electrician shall be periodically inspected by the master electrician from whom he receives direction and supervision. The master electrician shall perform a final inspection of the journeyman’s completed installation.

(c) If there is a failure of supervision as required by (a) or (b) above the board shall undertake disciplinary proceedings against the license(s) and apprentice(s) involved.


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

If your JM did not personally witness every clip and staple you installed the building will go nuclear and melt into the ground like Chernobyl! You have been warned. LOL


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

If for some reason you actually did get "caught" working alone and the inspector was some ignorant jackass, just tell him your boss crapped his pants and had to run home and change, or something along those lines. (just start on a theme, make it as unsavory as possible, and keep amping it up until you can tell the guy believes you. like, for example "well, we had some fried chicken for lunch and he said his tasted funny, and when you looked at it it kinda looked like maybe a fried rat or something, and then . . . blah blah blah . . . after he crapped himself . . .blah blah blah . . .etc etc . . .)


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Hawkrod said:


> If your JM did not personally witness every clip and staple you installed the building will go nuclear and melt into the ground like Chernobyl! You have been warned. LOL


Be careful, be very careful. At the first sign of smoke, run like Chicken Little.


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Or just grab a 2x4 and light up a cigarette.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

exploding said:


> Not quite sure if this is the right forum. I've been working for a residential electrician for roughly a year and a half. Occasionally he will leave the job site to go to the parts house, and I will remain working. He usually just leaves a small list of simple wire pulls, and checks what I've done when he returns. I don't feel like he is giving me any difficult or unsafe tasks. Even far less frequently, he will leave for almost half the day to tackle errands, meet with other builders etc etc. What kind of rules are being broken here? What kind of trouble would I be in if an inspector came by? Thanks! :thumbsup:


Take a deep breath Explosive one....

On Dante's various levels of hack h*ll you're not even close to being what the fully licensed EC's here kick sand in each others ascii face over

Even the _'state'_ itself, albeit lousy with laws, ordinances , and other such legislation of lofty public safety aim would consider you a jaywalker among a sea of DUI's

~CS~


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## johnny_a (Sep 22, 2013)

When I was an apprentice, as long as you had a cell phone to call your journeyman, the MOL inspectors never had an issue with being occasionally alone. 
But now Ontario has the college of trades and theyve never really come around and bothered my guys, so I don't know how they'll react.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

Black Dog said:


> This is from NH:
> 
> Supervision of Apprentice and Journeyman Electricians (a) Electrical installations performed by an apprentice electrician shall be directly supervised by a master or journeyman electrician *at all times.*
> 
> ...


know anyone who unquestionably follows those rules to the letter?:whistling2:


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## Glock23gp (Mar 10, 2014)

Along with Black dogs post there has been a lot of discussion here about the term 'direct supervision' is it:
1. A journeyman watching over your shoulder every minute
2. Being told a task or two to complete while your journeyman is across the job doing another task
3. Your boss laying you out then heading to the bar the rest of the day??

Ultimately it comes down to the interpretation of the AHJ

Ps is it common.. Um YES. I was driving a service van alone my second year of apprenticeship. 

Did I like it..No

Did I learn a ton being forced to figure $h1t out myself..yes


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## exploding (Apr 20, 2015)

Glock23gp said:


> Along with Black dogs post there has been a lot of discussion here about the term 'direct supervision' is it:
> 1. A journeyman watching over your shoulder every minute
> 2. Being told a task or two to complete while your journeyman is across the job doing another task
> 3. Your boss laying you out then heading to the bar the rest of the day??
> ...


 I have learned so much just being on my own. Not necessarily code, but learning how to hang bathroom fans between trusses, and finding center of rooms and such. Its nothing I couldn't do on my own, and I think he knows that and gives me those tasks. He's a really cool guy and I'm lucky to work for him, I just don't want to get in trouble. Also, an inspector came by today as I was cutting receptacles in. He just asked how I was doing and went on....lmao.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Here in Shelby County an apprentice or journeyman license is not required to perform electrical work. You are only required to be working with one who holds a master license. i do not like it since it drives down wages for people like me who do have a journeyman's license.

With that said, within 9 months of working for this company, my boss put me in my own van with a helper and had me running small service work and within a year I was running small reno jobs.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Here in Shelby County an apprentice or journeyman license is not required to perform electrical work. You are only required to be working with one who holds a master license. i do not like it since it drives down wages for people like me who do have a journeyman's license.
> 
> With that said, within 9 months of working for this company, my boss put me in my own van with a helper and had me running small service work and within a year I was running small reno jobs.


Play your cards right and get as close to running his company for him as you can. Meantime, get your master's and put yourself in position to win.

Then you can just about name your price.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Play your cards right and get as close to running his company for him as you can. Meantime, get your master's and put yourself in position to win.
> 
> Then you can just about name your price.


Right now I pretty much run the company. Boss' daughter does all the accounting but customers are calling me (some call the office) to set up schedules or ask questions. I have tried the master's test twice and failed due to lack of knowledge in commercial work, motors, ect. 

We have a friend of the family with a master's and company who is willing to step in. He is an EMT for the fire dept.

I will try for my master's again in the future but I think I may be trunk slamming and working under our friend's license if something were to happen with my current boss.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Right now I pretty much run the company. Boss' daughter does all the accounting but customers are calling me (some call the office) to set up schedules or ask questions. I have tried the master's test twice and failed due to lack of knowledge in commercial work, motors, ect.
> 
> We have a friend of the family with a master's and company who is willing to step in. He is an EMT for the fire dept.
> 
> I will try for my master's again in the future but I think I may be trunk slamming and working under our friend's license if something were to happen with my current boss.


Don't give up, maybe you could take one of those test prep classes? If you think you want to be self employed, you are on the right track.


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