# Controls Electricians



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

What are your thoughts about being a controls electrician? I’m entering my last year as in a union apprenticeship and don’t see many guys interested in learning controls. I’ve heard it called sissy wire. But I’m mainly interested in solar and controls. Does anyone do controls full time and enjoy it?


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Controls. Do I need to say it again to you louder?

*Controls.*

*Controls.*

*Controls!*


There . Understand now?


----------



## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

Joe, I got into controls during my apprenticeship and stayed with it. It is a specialty that keeps you working. Some guys will resent the fact that your doing easy work but they don't want it. I just retired and we had a hard time finding someone already in the co. to finish what I had started. Try to take an instrumentation course also. The JATC offers it.

Charlie


----------



## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

A skilled controls and instrumentation person will have a good employment future. This is an area where the knowledge needed is constantly changing, but you still need the ability to work on old obsolete equipment.

An analytical mind and the ability to understand how the equipment and process functions is one of the most important skills to use repairing things.

Good luck to you in the trade.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Controls and programming is a thing to think about. It’s the wave of the future. 
It’s only sissy work for people who don’t see the concept behind it. 
Having a solid background and understanding of electrical installations and troubleshooting is important. Being able to see the invisible problems that control work entails is something that takes time to do. Formal training in it and a solid understanding of computers makes it easier.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Like the others said it is one area that will keep you in demand and working when other guys are home on the couch.

The overtime was always good and the pay and benefits over and above those set as minimums in the bargaining agreement are nice incentives as well.


----------



## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

I did it for 3 years, 1.5 construction and 1.5 service. I really enjoyed it but on the service side you may be working on equipment outside all year long. That means people pissed off because they are to hot, so your on the roof and when they are to cold, again your on the roof.
To succeed you will need to be a good troubleshooter. It takes some time reading drawings and figuring out how things work.
Good luck.

Tim.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I've done mostly controls for about 15 years, 28 in the electrical trade. 

I've always enjoyed controls a lot. It's usually challenging and makes me think. A lot more than bending pipe and pulling wire. 

Most guys are happy to see me on their jobs because they know they don't have to do the difficult work that they're likely to fail at. No offense but your average everyday electrician will very likely not be able to program a VFD so it's a relief when someone shows up who can. 

I think control guys are born, not made. In my experience, either you have it or you don't. If you're a natural, you won't need very much formal education, if you're not then you'll need a ton of it and even then you'll struggle a lot. 

Control guys are almost always busy and a lot of us can sort of pick and choose where we want to work. 

A pretty fair number of contractors won't take on control work mainly because they know they can't do it themselves and they don't want to depend on an employee. 

I can do just about any type of control work except program PLCs. I'm coming up on retirement so I doubt if I'll ever learn it but given the chance to do it over, I would have learned PLCs. It makes you quite a bit more valuable. 

Most of my control jobs started out with being handed a list of instrumentation and basically left alone. I pick and buy the cabinet(s), terminal blocks, cable, etc. Usually, the actual instruments and the PLC are bought by the company, not me. 

I build the control cabinets, often run the pipe, set the J-boxes and run the pipe/cable to each instrument. Kind of a mix of basic electrical and controls. 

Sorry for the long post.....there's a lot to controls......lol.


----------



## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I love it. I get customers I would never have had if I didn’t do controls. Most electricians simply dont do it or don’t understand it so the client calls me. They tend to like to keep working with the “guy” that knows the most or can figure things out, weather its controls or not. Also when on larger jobs I get to wire up control cabinets and land wires while the other guys are pulling wires and doing grunt work. Win Win


----------



## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Learn controls, automation, and fire alarm now.

In ten years when you're working every day, and the pipe and wire guys are laid off, you can buy a nice speed boat and name it "Sissy Wire".


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Signal1 said:


> Learn controls, automation, and fire alarm now.
> 
> In ten years when you're working every day, and the pipe and wire guys are laid off, you can buy a nice speed boat and name it "Sissy Wire".


Exactly!

Never had a boat named 'Sissy Wire' but I did have 'OT Bonus'


----------



## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

When you are in your 60's and you don't have your chiropractor on speed dial you won't regret it. Controls automation and instrumentation are the way to go. The one thing about instrumentation maintenance is you always need to be careful around the process side of the instruments. Some of that stuff can cause serious chemical burns or be deadly. 
From personal observation I think the best instrumentation guys were chemical process operators. I never was in operations. If you want to do the instrument thing my advice is find a class in chemical process operations and take it first. It will be a big help. One more thing learn all you can about computers . Modern instrumentation is all computerized. 
My computer skills are terrible on their best day.

LC


----------



## Handcraftedsince87 (Feb 9, 2018)

Signal1 said:


> Learn controls, automation, and fire alarm now.
> 
> In ten years when you're working every day, and the pipe and wire guys are laid off, you can buy a nice speed boat and name it "Sissy Wire".


:vs_laugh: This made my day. I couldn't stop laughing!


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Controls are just another facet of being a well rounded electrician. Once you learn the basics you’ll have to then keep current with the changes in technology (PLC’s, DCS, VFD’s, instrumentation). There’s no reason to believe the changes will slow down in the near future.

If you’re talking about the IBEW construction trade, then I don’t know how you “specialize” in control wiring unless you get in with a big enough company that will always have enough of that type of work. Of course if you become good enough then you can get a reputation as a “controls” guy and that will make you a valuable asset.

Just don’t forget the other aspects of the trade. Good luck.


----------



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

bill39 said:


> Controls are just another facet of being a well rounded electrician. Once you learn the basics you’ll have to then keep current with the changes in technology (PLC’s, DCS, VFD’s, instrumentation). There’s no reason to believe the changes will slow down in the near future.
> 
> If you’re talking about the IBEW construction trade, then I don’t know how you “specialize” in control wiring unless you get in with a big enough company that will always have enough of that type of work. Of course if you become good enough then you can get a reputation as a “controls” guy and that will make you a valuable asset.
> 
> Just don’t forget the other aspects of the trade. Good luck.


I’m finding that even in the IBEW there are shops that mainly do controls. Also, I wouldn’t be opposed to finding a maintenance gig in controls down the road. I’m going to continue taking controls classes through the union


----------



## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

When someone asks me how I got into I&C work...


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Another thing to pay attention to is non-electrical work. 

A good controls guy is about half electrician and half millwright. I can't think of how many time I've been called to troubleshoot a problem and discover that it's mechanical not electrical. 

And if you can fix the mechanical stuff, you're even more valuable.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

I think some of the negative perception stems from the definition of the term "controls". For people who have worked in industrial settings, "controls" can mean motor controls, drives, PLCs, HMIs, SCADA systems, Distributed Control Systems, instrumentation, sensors etc. etc. etc. and MAYBE some HVAC, BMS and Security systems. But for people who work primarily in commercial and residential fields, "controls" often means low voltage (as in 24V) HVAC controls and alarm / security systems, for which some states do not require the same type of training and licensing; i.e. "low voltage technician" certification. There is often a bias among licensed electricians against LV technicians because of the perception of there being lower standards of entry into the field.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

JRaef said:


> There is often a bias among licensed electricians against LV technicians because of the perception of there being lower standards of entry into the field.


No it's because they drill right thru the glue lams and don't know any different, and they wear a stupid uniform and drag around those rolling Dewalt tool chests and then never pickup after themselves. That's why. Oh, and one more alarm guy tries stuffing a 14-2 into one of my 20 amp outlets I wired so he can power his wall wart in the closet under the stairs and I'm gonna beat him silly with a baseball bat.


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> No it's because they drill right thru the glue lams and don't know any different, and they wear a stupid uniform and drag around those rolling Dewalt tool chests and then never pickup after themselves. That's why. Oh, and one more alarm guy tries stuffing a 14-2 into one of my 20 amp outlets I wired so he can power his wall wart in the closet under the stairs and I'm gonna beat him silly with a baseball bat.


The barrier to entry is lower but I've seen the same poor workmanship out of real electricians, too. Alarns and cable TV are ready made jobs for millenials that are ready to move out of mommy's basement and wear big boy pants. The pay rates are often lower and since the uniforms, truck, and often even the tools are paid for, the big Dewalt roll around is the only tool that comes out of pocket. There is more skill and tools in HVAC in rigging, some math, and extra test tools so its not quite as bad as the other two. Never mind the fact that they don't have to shell out for 10 times the tools to do jobs that involve something other than wood and no wire bigger than #14.

In terms of the basics I've got the same gig as a motor shop technician but my biggest wrench is 2", the knockouts go to 6", the megger goes to 5000 V, i carry a bunch of the exotic testing tools (and rent a lot too...got $65k in relay testing in the truck right now), carry the high end vibration/alignment/balancing technician tools, IR camera and gun, ultrasonic meter,, all kinds of rigging equipment, wood work is a luxury I rarely see, voltages stop at 35,400 V so I carry a bunch of lineman crap, and since many customers are industrial and rules are all over the place, multiple colors of locks, multiple types of gloves, and every other stupid safety thing anybody has ever come up with. The uniform isn't really just advertising, it's FR for arc flash since I'm the guy that has to troubleshoot 4160 motors in shops where their electricians crap their pants at the thought.

The trouble with this job is there is no motor shop tech school. Usually if we hunt for an HVAC tech that wants to make a real pay check in a real job, or a motor shop mechanic that has reached the top of the food chain and doesn't want foreman or doesn't want to wait for a slot, or maybe an industrial vibration mechanic or a controls tech that doesn't mind hard work once in a while and lots of road time.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

JRaef said:


> I think some of the negative perception stems from the definition of the term "controls". For people who have worked in industrial settings, "controls" can mean motor controls, drives, PLCs, HMIs, SCADA systems, Distributed Control Systems, instrumentation, sensors etc. etc. etc. and MAYBE some HVAC, BMS and Security systems. But for people who work primarily in commercial and residential fields, "controls" often means low voltage (as in 24V) HVAC controls and alarm / security systems, for which some states do not require the same type of training and licensing; i.e. "low voltage technician" certification. There is often a bias among licensed electricians against LV technicians because of the perception of there being lower standards of entry into the field.


Well said. That's interesting, though... to what extent are LV techs expected to adhere to code for things like security systems, not to mention, HVAC or fire alarm? Seems like something that ought to be regulated.


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

They are expected to follow the same Code BUT for instance in 70E you have chapters 1-3 which apply to “everything” then 4-6 are special rules modifying 1-3. Then we get to chapter 7...ignore everything in 1-6 unless it specifically includes something. This is where the low voltage controls stuff falls. Until recently it was acceptable to just throw cables on top of a drop ceiling Willy nilly but no more, but since most of them don’t have a license they don’t get CEUs and never got the message.

Plus most of the time the installs are way after rough in and often finish work or even done on remodels where permits aren’t usually pulled so inspection is hard or lacking altogether so there’s little to no enforcement so bad practices easily slip through the cracks. The physical installs also must comply with IBC or CABO 1&2 or whatever the local code is. A typical CATV install involves sticking RG-95 (not for outdoor use, limited bandwidth and service life...should be RG-6U) strapped directly to the siding with a bunch of white or clear plastic one holes then routed through holes drilled directly through the siding, etc. and mounted with a shallow mount old work box if you’re lucky but usually just sort of jammed in the back of a face plate and pulled tight with the screws into the drywall. Not even caulked of course because they pay by the install not the hour. It’s illegal as hell and causes all kinds of siding damage and leaks not found until years later.

Not that most homeowners know this, and good luck gong after the cable operator. Most of the time they contract out installs and with the low rates, the culprit is gone long before the complaints come in. Then the cable operator pretends the installation is not their fault even though they acted as GC...same trick scummy GCs do.

Needless to say LV technicians don’t like me because they usually get thrown off the job, not paid, and the “GC” (cable/phone company) is facing a very nasty legal battle if they don’t repair all the damage and do a Code install. They can and have done it right, for $99, but they lose their rear ends on it every time. At least I tell them up front my expectation is a Code compliant job. About half the time that gets you the senior tech, not the installer that’s paid $50/install and tries to do it in under an hour with $10 in parts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ElectroBuff (Apr 8, 2018)

There are so many controls jobs it's not even funny. My previous workplace struggled to find someone for over 2 years who could demonstrate even the basic controls skills during an interview.

Unlike some of the other posters, I believe that controls can be learned; you just need to approach it systematically like anything else. If you can work with relay circuitry and know how it translates into a PLC ladder logic, you have 90% covered. Not to mention, you rarely have to re-invent the wheel on the job. If you need to change something on a running machine or have to write entirely new rungs of code, you're doing something wrong. In nearly all cases, you will be evaluating existing code, troubleshooting why it's not working and if there is a need to modify, you should be able to re-purpose existing code.


----------



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

JRaef said:


> I think some of the negative perception stems from the definition of the term "controls". For people who have worked in industrial settings, "controls" can mean motor controls, drives, PLCs, HMIs, SCADA systems, Distributed Control Systems, instrumentation, sensors etc. etc. etc. and MAYBE some HVAC, BMS and Security systems. But for people who work primarily in commercial and residential fields, "controls" often means low voltage (as in 24V) HVAC controls and alarm / security systems, for which some states do not require the same type of training and licensing; i.e. "low voltage technician" certification. There is often a bias among licensed electricians against LV technicians because of the perception of there being lower standards of entry into the field.


Good point, which of these is most valuable to learn?


----------



## JP.Electric (Apr 12, 2018)

I have been installing temperature controls for AHU, VAV's, cooling towers, VSD, etc. for about 15 years. I feel it's a great niche to get into. Does anyone know how control jobs are bid?


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

ElectroBuff said:


> If you need to change something on a running machine or have to write entirely new rungs of code, you're doing something wrong.


Agree. If it was running before it will run again once you find the problem. Its not the program.
On an interview once I had the plant mgr ask me a "what if"?

If this machine was not stopping on a dime like its supposed too, would you manipulate the program to see if you could correct it that way?

I responded by telling him to look down here as I pointed at a limit switch.
It had the adjustable roller arm on it.
He offered me the job on the spot, but could not meet my monetary requirements.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> Agree. If it was running before it will run again once you find the problem. Its not the program.
> On an interview once I had the plant mgr ask me a "what if"?
> 
> If this machine was not stopping on a dime like its supposed too, would you manipulate the program to see if you could correct it that way?
> ...


I tell guys I work with a similar thing all the time. A few of them want to break out the laptop every time there's the least little problem that should rightly be approached with conventional troubleshooting means. I tell them all the time, "It's usually a part people touch or a part that moves a lot. Start there.". Very often, it is. 

In your roller arm example, with the so-called "process excellence" initiatives that go on in recent times, I'd go one further and ask why the hell it's even adjustable and get the widgetworks working on getting a fixed arm of the appropriate length.


----------



## mikey383 (May 21, 2012)

I wish I'd entered the controls side of the electrical field much sooner than I did. I'm going on 23 years in the field, and the first 15 of them were spent being an installer. Granted, I did some control work, such as simple motor control, but not much beyond that. I've learned more in the last 8 years on the controls side than I did the previous 15 years. Instrumentation, VFDs, communications, etc. 

In my experience, it's really difficult to find a controls electrician who knows what they're doing. Most electricians either can't grasp the concept of controls, or don't want to. I've shown a couple guys how to wire a VFD several times in the last year and they just don't get it. It's like a foreign language to them. Out of the 12 electricians that I work with, only 3 of us can do control/instrumentation work. Of those 3, only 2 of us know how to get into the PLC and modify the logic. 

It seems like when a problem arises, there are two types of electricians:
-Those who want the problem fixed so they can go to lunch
-Those who want to fix the problem so they can go to lunch

Controls guys seem to be in the latter category, IMO. 


It's also a little bit of a burden at times. There's nothing worse than enjoying your weekend off and getting a call that there's a problem with something, and they need you to come take a look at it because nobody else can seem to figure it out. 

Overall, I really enjoy it. It makes me actually use my head at times, instead of just throwing up some conduit and pulling wire.


----------



## Westward (Mar 3, 2018)

John Valdes said:


> Agree. If it was running before it will run again once you find the problem. Its not the program.
> On an interview once I had the plant mgr ask me a "what if"?
> 
> If this machine was not stopping on a dime like its supposed too, would you manipulate the program to see if you could correct it that way?
> ...


And I would have a number of questions, as ‘on a dime’ has implications. Had it been on the job, I would have referred to the logic before making an adjustment.

With out a doubt, field I/O is typically the culprit, but logic can often modify behaviour for certain conditions. The bulk of my work is often helping users understand those conditions. In my world, ‘ controls’ is the dynamic operation of equipment. Not knowing what happens inside the logic will leave you behind sooner or later.


----------



## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

I do mostly residential but I sometimes work in control panels with timers, contactors and counters but not PLCs. I enjoy it more than wiring kitchens and garages.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Westward said:


> And I would have a number of questions, as ‘on a dime’ has implications. Had it been on the job, I would have referred to the logic before making an adjustment.
> 
> With out a doubt, field I/O is typically the culprit, but logic can often modify behaviour for certain conditions. The bulk of my work is often helping users understand those conditions. In my world, ‘ controls’ is the dynamic operation of equipment. Not knowing what happens inside the logic will leave you behind sooner or later.


I couldn't disagree more. Of course the logic has to be referred to from time to time, but if you'd have broken out the laptop to troubleshoot a cycle stop position limit switch I'd have reserved the right to criticize you openly. When I see someone breaking out a laptop to troubleshoot something like this, I have to think the person troubleshooting the machine is either showing off, wasting time, or has a general lack of mechanical ability. The old saying "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" comes to mind here. It's only when the person doing the troubleshooting has no idea how the machine is supposed to operate in the first place does investigation through the logic become valuable. A cycle stop limit switch is so fundamental to machinery of every sort, and adjustment is sometimes required to compensate for clutch/brake wear, switch wear, chain wear, etc that I'd have serious doubts about a guy's general mechanical aptitude if he broke out the laptop first. Could there have been a cycle stop timer in the logic that could have been adjusted instead? Maybe, but if the limit is adjustable, that's a heck of a lot quicker. I'd have the machine back up and running before you got the laptop booted.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> In your roller arm example, with the so-called "process excellence" initiatives that go on in recent times, I'd go one further and ask why the hell it's even adjustable and get the widgetworks working on getting a fixed arm of the appropriate length.


I was just interviewing Marc. I just watched the machine stop and saw the switch and adjustable arm.



Westward said:


> And I would have a number of questions, as ‘on a dime’ has implications. Had it been on the job, I would have referred to the logic before making an adjustment.
> 
> With out a doubt, field I/O is typically the culprit, but logic can often modify behaviour for certain conditions. The bulk of my work is often helping users understand those conditions. In my world, ‘ controls’ is the dynamic operation of equipment. Not knowing what happens inside the logic will leave you behind sooner or later.


On the job, I always checked what was the most obvious. If it was working fine before, there is not a damn thing you can do in the logic to change how it operates. You can cover/mask issues that will become even more of an issue if you try to repair with program changes.
Why pull out a laptop if the photo eye is blocked? Or why add a second to a timer because the input is off?

Now, I have used logic to track down issues many many times. Some examples are inputs that are hard to get to. Maybe way up on top of a machine or down in a hole.
I like the ability to watch in real time how the I/O is operating and looking for faulty I/O as well.
Just seeing an inputs state sometimes is all you need to fix the problem.


----------



## Westward (Mar 3, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Of course the logic has to be referred to from time to time, but if you'd have broken out the laptop to troubleshoot a cycle stop position limit switch I'd have reserved the right to criticize you openly. When I see someone breaking out a laptop to troubleshoot something like this, I have to think the person troubleshooting the machine is either showing off, wasting time, or has a general lack of mechanical ability. The old saying "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" comes to mind here. It's only when the person doing the troubleshooting has no idea how the machine is supposed to operate in the first place does investigation through the logic become valuable. A cycle stop limit switch is so fundamental to machinery of every sort, and adjustment is sometimes required to compensate for clutch/brake wear, switch wear, chain wear, etc that I'd have serious doubts about a guy's general mechanical aptitude if he broke out the laptop first. Could there have been a cycle stop timer in the logic that could have been adjusted instead? Maybe, but if the limit is adjustable, that's a heck of a lot quicker. I'd have the machine back up and running before you got the laptop booted.


‘Stop on a dime’ implies braking. If the machine was coasting, would you have adjusted the limit switch? If the limit switch was wired to a plc, as opposed to a vid, would you not explore the logic? Does the occurrence follow repair or alterations? If I had knowledge of the equipment and operation, I may easily have said, we’ll just adjust the limit switch. Lacking that, I do my due diligence.


----------



## Westward (Mar 3, 2018)

John Valdes said:


> I was just interviewing Marc. I just watched the machine stop and saw the switch and adjustable arm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No suggestions made on altering logic. It’s simply a troubleshooting tool.


----------



## Westward (Mar 3, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Of course the logic has to be referred to from time to time, but if you'd have broken out the laptop to troubleshoot a cycle stop position limit switch I'd have reserved the right to criticize you openly. When I see someone breaking out a laptop to troubleshoot something like this, I have to think the person troubleshooting the machine is either showing off, wasting time, or has a general lack of mechanical ability. The old saying "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" comes to mind here. *It's only when the person doing the troubleshooting has no idea how the machine is supposed to operate in the first place does investigation through the logic become valuable. * A cycle stop limit switch is so fundamental to machinery of every sort, and adjustment is sometimes required to compensate for clutch/brake wear, switch wear, chain wear, etc that I'd have serious doubts about a guy's general mechanical aptitude if he broke out the laptop first. Could there have been a cycle stop timer in the logic that could have been adjusted instead? Maybe, but if the limit is adjustable, that's a heck of a lot quicker. I'd have the machine back up and running before you got the laptop booted.


Correct me if I’m wrong, but you never saw the equipment?


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Westward said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, but you never saw the equipment?


Doubtless you already know the answer to that. This is a common, and fairly fundamental problem. I don't have to see the machine to know what I'd check first.  

Occam's Razor: When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. 

This issue is roughly akin to "The light won't come on when I flip the switch". I'd try another light bulb right quick first. Some guys might start to take the wall switch apart and check for voltages and such. Which guy are you? 

I work with guys who will approach a down machine, think of the seemingly exotic thing that could cause that problem, then proceed to work on it with that in mind. An utter waste of time. Check out a couple of the common things right quick first. If that doesn't reveal anything, then you dive deeper... then it's time to get the prints and the laptop.

Certainly there's a lot of merit to a defined and logical troubleshooting approach, but not when there's a few simple and common things that you should rightly check first that take almost no time.


----------



## Westward (Mar 3, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> This issue is roughly akin to "The light won't come on when I flip the switch". I'd try another light bulb right quick first. Some guys might start to take the wall switch apart and check for voltages and such. Which guy are you?


I’m the guy that ohms the bulb before heading across the plant floor to the parts room.

My days typically consists of expansions, modifications, commissioning, and troubleshooting. I’m the guy they call when the others have hit the wall. I’m simply an electrician who specializes in controls. Some of the other fellows jump in and make adjustments, but Unless I know the equipment, I investigate before hand. That may be asking someone who knows, talking with the operator, or reviewing schematics. If there is a logic component, I review the associations. 

Hey, once you do know, have at er.


----------



## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

Looking at the logic online is a very effective way to troubleshoot, but I agree it rarely needs to be changed--two entirely different things. Usually helpful to break out the laptop if you're not familiar with the behavior and want to see what it's getting hung up on.

As far as starting simple vs. complex, it really depends. If the light goes out, change the bulb... if the light is going out when the garage door opens, obviously you gotta look for a more complicated problem. It's a matter of how many assumptions you think are appropriate. Quick fixes assume a lot, a comprehensive approach assumes nothing. Which one is ultimately faster depends on whether your assumptions are correct.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Westward said:


> ‘Stop on a dime’ implies braking. If the machine was coasting, would you have adjusted the limit switch? If the limit switch was wired to a plc, as opposed to a vid, would you not explore the logic? Does the occurrence follow repair or alterations? If I had knowledge of the equipment and operation, I may easily have said, we’ll just adjust the limit switch. Lacking that, I do my due diligence.


What if its a mechanical brake? Stopping on a dime does not even have to mean drive/VFD.
I'm old school to a degree, that I look for easy solutions before complicated ones.
Most of the time its something very simple anyway.
And yes, I have caught myself doing this and had to stop, think and look at the problem from a practical standpoint. I have found solutions may times in a break room or even on the way home from work.
I have been guilty of overthinking stuff many times over.



Westward said:


> No suggestions made on altering logic. It’s simply a troubleshooting tool.


Sure you did. Were we not discussing the merit of common sense and looking for obvious problems before making a mountain out of a mole hill?
Like the two minutes it would have taken to adjust that limit switch.
I would have the problem fixed before you got out your laptop.



Westward said:


> I’m the guy that ohms the bulb before heading across the plant floor to the parts room.


I always checked pilot lamps with my meter first. Hard to tell sometimes.
But if the light over my desk goes out, I do not start at the panel.
I get new tubes and try them first.

I'm certain we can agree on most things. And you sound like a good guy to have on site.
We all have our own way of addressing issues. I think thats how we learn after all.


----------



## LBC Jesse (Apr 26, 2012)

A good control guy is hard to come by. I build custom ICP's (see my photo album of examples). And like other replies to this post, Ive met many Masters that simply wont even bother with a control panel. I believe there are pros and cons to being a control guy. In our situation, my guys work in the comforts of a/c all day. They dont work nights or weekends etc... however, they are working ALL day staring at a blob of wires and component 2' from their face, which can become monotonous.
As for installation, set ups and troubleshooting.. a control guy can name his price if he's worth a dang, and I also agree with an earlier poster... some people can be trained, other it just comes natural...


----------



## Sasquatch555666 (Feb 23, 2021)

I'm a controls electrician for an Hvac company environmental systems Inc ilove my job always learning new controls news systems not one job have I ever ben to is the same


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Sasquatch555666 said:


> I'm a controls electrician for an Hvac company environmental systems Inc ilove my job always learning new controls news systems not one job have I ever ben to is the same


That's fantastic.

Please fill out your profile as this is a restricted site. All you have to do is click your avatar, then select Account Settings and be sure not to skip over Electrical Trade. Click save & you're done!

Welcome to the forums.

Stay safe.


----------



## esoul (Nov 12, 2021)

Being a controls electrician is incredible! I get to work with cutting edge technology and be at the forefront of change. As technology progresses, so will our way of life, the future is in low voltage!


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

esoul said:


> Being a controls electrician is incredible! I get to work with cutting edge technology and be at the forefront of change. As technology progresses, so will our way of life, the future is in low voltage!


Strongly disagree. Sure it seems that the direction for CONTROLS is everything 24 VDC but look at what’s happening with OV…voltages keep going up. Now with idiotic AFCI mandates even resi is going hard into 240 V hardwired more to avoid it. 4160 has gone from “wow scary” to I’ve seen teeny 300 HP motors on 4160. And it’s more controllable and more affordable than ever. I think overall everyone is realizing voltage isn’t as limiting as it seems and current causes huge safety hazards, heavier equipment due to thermal limits, so higher voltages make a lot of sense outside of control signals.


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

paulengr said:


> Strongly disagree. Sure it seems that the direction for CONTROLS is everything 24 VDC but look at what’s happening with OV…voltages keep going up. Now with idiotic AFCI mandates even resi is going hard into 240 V hardwired more to avoid it. 4160 has gone from “wow scary” to I’ve seen teeny 300 HP motors on 4160. And it’s more controllable and more affordable than ever. I think overall everyone is realizing voltage isn’t as limiting as it seems and current causes huge safety hazards, heavier equipment due to thermal limits, so higher voltages make a lot of sense outside of control signals.


I meant PV solar/wind.


----------



## Creatine (Nov 1, 2021)

I do controls work, it's a lot of fun IMO. My job is an interesting mix of I&C, PLC programming, building control panels (not currently to UL standards but close) electrical work, and troubleshooting. 

I've really enjoyed getting to see the inside of so many industrial facilities and seeing how so many things are made. I'll take this side of electrical over running bending 1" RMC with a hand bender and running pipe any day. Even seeing that 1" RMC bender makes me shudder.


----------

