# 1000amp ATS 4 Pole



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I just received comments back from an un-named building department.
One of the comments was that they want the generator to be separately derived. 
Seems kind of odd to me.
I really dont care but, why??

Also, they are not accepting the POCO historical load for the building and want our engineer to calculate the building load per NEC Annex D showing all of the motors, receptacles and heat strips, lighting, etc.
Just added about 5% to the job.

No friggin wonder people are tempted to work without a permit.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

why ? they are trying to make you more money ! chaching ! :laughing:


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Does it have anything to do with GFI requirements. If the equipment is GFI protected I can see the need to seperate the neutrals through the transfer switch.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Have you called them to ask for their reasons?

I've never been asked to do either, it makes absolutely NO sense to manually calc out the load when the power company already has the load data which satisfies the NEC.

I'm fortunate Oregon has the "cite it, write it" rule in regards to having to cite NEC code before making us do anything. 

I'd sure like to see what code they're following....


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Is the Genset 277/480? Is the Genset backing up the service? Here are the two reasons I can think of for a four pole transfer switch

"230.95 Ground-Fault Protection of Equipment. Ground- fault protection of equipment shall be provided for solidly grounded wye electric services of more than 150 volts to ground but not exceeding 600 volts phase-to-phase for each service disconnect rated 1000 amperes or more. The grounded conductor for the solidly grounded wye system shall be connected directly to ground through a grounding electrode system, as specified in 250.50, without inserting any resistor or impedance device.
The rating of the service disconnect shall be considered to be the rating of the largest fuse that can be installed or the highest continuous current trip setting for which the actual overcurrent device installed in a circuit breaker is rated or can be adjusted."

http://m.ecmweb.com/power-quality/ground-fault-current-problems-and-solutions


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

The service is 120/240 open delta.
The historical load is only about 600 amps, Im building in a 50% safety factor for expansion.
Im going to have the engineer sit down with the Plans Examiner.
I really dont care what they come up with at this point, I just want to get the project started before the customer loses interest.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks (since the mobile version doesn't let me thank you)


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

My engineer mentioned that they wanted a non-separately derived.
Im not convinced that I agree with his interpretation of the comments


The comments:



1- Provide a load calculation that follows the dictates of NEC Article 220 and follows the
format of the examples shown in NEC Annex D, demonstrating
a. Minimum lighting load per square foot, NEC 220.12
b. Lighting calculated at 125% as a continuous load, NEC 215.3
c. 125% of the largest motor as applicable, NEC 430.22 /NEC 430.24
d. Receptacle loads calculated at not less than 180 watts each, NEC 220.14(1)
e. Heat strip loads calculated at 125% of the rated load as continuous loads. NEC 424.3(8)
f. and all other loads as prescribed.
2- An intersystem bonding termination device, with the capacity for connection of not less
than three bonding conductors is required at the service equipment. The termination device
must be external to enclosures and be one of the following.
a. A set of terminals, listed for use as grounding and bonding equipment, connected to the
meter enclosure.
b. A bonding bar near the service equipment enclosure, meter enclosure, or raceway for
service conductors; connected to an equipment grounding conductor with a minimum 6
AWG copper conductor.
c. A bonding bar near the grounding electrode conductor, connected to the grounding
electrode conductor with a minimum 6 AWG copper conductor. Nf;C 250.94
3- Transfer switch specifications and detail specifying if configured as a separately derived
system are required. Transfer switch rating must be adequate for the maximum load to be
carried at any time, and the available fault current that could be imposed in either normal or
standby condition. NEC 702.5; NEC 110.9 ·
4- A permanent sign is required at the service-entrance equipment stating the type and
location of the standby power source. NEC 702.8
APPLICABLE TO ALL REJECTED PLANS:
See notes in red on the "Office Copy" of the plans for further information regarding corrections


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Unfuzz me....:001_huh:.... would _derived/non derived _equate to _service /non service _ , and the pertinent load cals here? ~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Unfuzz me....:001_huh:.... would _derived/non derived _equate to _service /non service _ , and the pertinent load cals here? ~CS~


Im lost as to what the want.
I think the Plans Examiner just clicks on a bunch of random boxes and the comments appear.
All of this gear is outdoor. I dont understand the necessity of an intersytem ground bar outside but I can install one.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Well , do these folks spit _code _Sundude? 445, 705, 708, 310.15B7...? ~CS~


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Suncoast Power said:


> ...
> Im going to have the engineer sit down with the Plans Examiner.
> ...


+1

You're the guy caught in the middle. Let the guy who drew the plans resolve it with the guy reviewing the plans.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MikeFL said:


> +1
> 
> You're the guy caught in the middle. Let the guy who drew the plans resolve it with the guy reviewing the plans.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how it pans out.


Yes and they both speak the same language.


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