# Tamper proof



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

When did these stupid tamper proof recepts cycle in anyways? My wife has Rhumatoid Arthritus, and I am not going to install them even if they mandate me.(Remodel).
I will claim practical application under title 24, CDA.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> When did these stupid tamper proof recepts cycle in anyways? My wife has Rhumatoid Arthritus, and I am not going to install them even if they mandate me.(Remodel).


When I first heard about the rule I not for it. Then I actually read the substantiation and it changed my mind. 

But to answer your question it first appeared in the 2008 NEC



> *406.11 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Dwelling
> Units.* In all areas specified in 210.52, all 125-volt, 15-
> and 20-ampere receptacles shall be listed tamper resistant
> receptacles.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

big2bird said:


> I will claim practical application under title 24, CDA.


The NEC infers omnipotent superiority to all and any nay sayers BB

~CS~


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

You can do what ever you damned well please in your own house.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> You can do what ever you damned well please in your own house.


Tuggin' the heartstrings of our 'lil libertopian hearts.....:thumbsup:
~CS~


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

We are not required to use them yet. My boss who never checks what he is actually buying has gotten TR GFCI recps which we have installed on occasion, then we get the call back cause me maw can't seem to plug in the toaster.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Is it really that hard to push them both in at the same time?

I can go weeks without plugging in an appliance. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

GETTING OLD IS NOT FOR SISSIES!!!


An 80-year-old man goes for a physical. All of his tests come back with
normal results. The doctor says, "George, everything looks great. How are
you doing mentally and emotionally? Are you at peace with God?"

George replies, "God and I are tight. He knows I have poor eyesight, so
he's fixed it so when I get up in the middle of the night to go to the
>bathroom, poof, the light goes on. When I'm done, poof, the light goes
off."

"Wow, that's incredible," the doctor says.

A little later in the day, the doctor calls George's wife. "Ethel," he
says, "George is doing fine! But I had to call you because I'm in awe of
his relationship with God. Is it true that he gets up during the night and
poof, the light goes on in the bathroom, and when he's done, poof, the
light goes off?"

"Oh my God!" Ethel exclaims. "He's peeing in the refrigerator
again!"


----------



## gentac (Jan 6, 2013)

jrannis said:


> Is it really that hard to push them both in at the same time?
> 
> I can go weeks without plugging in an appliance. Am I missing something here?


No, it's not hard, but sometimes it just doesn't work as well as you seem to think. It's a big problem, I get a lot of complaints about them.

Too much nanny state crap, next they won't let us use SE cable for service entrances or romex exposed in unfinished basements...


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I have tamper proofs... I just put them in because I have small children and believe in the design.

I don't find they're harder to push in, they just either work or don't. You have to push the plug in square.. otherwise it won't go. 

But they're not HARDER to push in, like there's not more resistance.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I went to a call last week for this in one of the apartment complexes I service. She has one hand with arthritis all gnarled up. It was a counter GFI. I swapped it out for a different brand. Still had to get out the linesmans to tweek a couple of the prongs on a few of her appliances to get them straight. Then they would go in easier. I think the problem is real. Not the first complaint I have seen. Mostly older folks.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

nrp3 said:


> I went to a call last week for this in one of the apartment complexes I service. She has one hand with arthritis all gnarled up. It was a counter GFI. I swapped it out for a different brand. Still had to get out the linesmans to tweek a couple of the prongs on a few of her appliances to get them straight. Then they would go in easier. I think the problem is real. Not the first complaint I have seen. *Mostly older folks.*


My point.


----------



## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

"believe in the design."

Believe what you want .... but don't drag me into your church 

We received all manner of assurances that the new design with the little shutters are no harder to use than a receptacle without shutters. After all, they said, such things have been used in Outer Mongolia for years ...

OK, reality check time.

The TR requirement has brought back to life all manner of 'safer' designs that don't get to use the TR marking. For example, the ones with the face plate that needs to rotate. Faceplates with the 'twist' feature are back. Neither of these meet the requirement.

I started using the new, compliant, Leviton devices in my house. My experience? Most of them are a lot harder to use the first time- it seems you need to break the shutters loose. After then, they usually work fine.

Certain appliances with 2-prong cords are quite difficult to use with any of these receptacles. It appears that the plug prongs themselves are too 'different,' and no amount of fussing will get the shutters to open.


----------



## Matt Hermanson (Jul 18, 2009)

We put samples of Leviton Resi and Comm grade and Hubble Comm grade in our home school room. So you know they get used. No issues.

Now the P&S....


----------



## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

Im also getting complaints. Mostly from 2 pron plugs attached to china garbage. I take my side cutters even up the plug, and voila it works.


----------



## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

Our new hospital does not have any TR outlets but many of the new hospital grade receptacles are so tight that some of the cheaper cords had blades pull out. many are very hard to insert the plug especcially the first time. Even some spec grade outlets are very hard the first plug and more challenging for arthritic hands.
During insoections about %20 of new TR outlets are very hard to test but second test in the same outlet are usually much easier. It is like a lot of receptacles need to get the internal parts all aligned in the first use.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm sorry. This smells more of lawyers than common sense. Warnings on 5 gallon buckets in spanish about infant drownings come to mind. Stupid is as stupid does.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Mshea said:


> Our new hospital does not have any TR outlets but many of the new hospital grade receptacles are so tight that some of the cheaper cords had blades pull out. many are very hard to insert the plug especcially the first time. Even some spec grade outlets are very hard the first plug and more challenging for arthritic hands.
> During insoections about %20 of new TR outlets are very hard to test but second test in the same outlet are usually much easier. It is like a lot of receptacles need to get the internal parts all aligned in the first use.


The first time a patient dies because a nurse could not get something to work in time will have OSHPOSH pulling that one out of their code.


----------



## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Personally I think the tr outlets suck, but they're code here so I've been putting them in. The worst thing about them is trying to stick my meter probes in them, sometimes its way more difficult than it should be. I've found if you hold the ends evenly and push them both in at the same time it works ok


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I've had to replace a few tamper resistant receptacles but overall have had no real issues


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Hippie said:


> Personally I think the tr outlets suck, but they're code here so I've been putting them in. The worst thing about them is trying to stick my meter probes in them, sometimes its way more difficult than it should be. I've found if you hold the ends evenly and push them both in at the same time it works ok



Using a 2-prong ground adapter works much better.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Hippie said:


> Personally I think the tr outlets suck, but they're code here so I've been putting them in. The worst thing about them is trying to stick my meter probes in them, sometimes its way more difficult than it should be. I've found if you hold the ends evenly and push them both in at the same time it works ok


So what you are saying is that if you try to do exactly what they are designed to prevent they make it hard to do.

Yeah, that is a real design flaw. :laughing:


I suggest doing something like 480 shows.

I have a male cord cap with leads that have shielded banana plugs that fit my meter.


----------



## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

BBQ said:


> So what you are saying is that if you try to do exactly what they are designed to prevent they make it hard to do.
> 
> Yeah, that is a real design flaw. :laughing:
> 
> ...


Yep lol trying to poke something other than a plug into one.. That adapter plug is a really good idea I'm going to put one in with my tools now.


----------



## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

"Warnings on 5 gallon buckets in spanish about infant drownings."

Are those warinigs, or listing & labeling instructions?


----------



## Matt Hermanson (Jul 18, 2009)

@Hippie
Carry a three-prong adapter with you.
Plug the three-prong into the receptacle you're testing.
You're test leads should have any easier time working on the adapter rather than into the TR.


----------

