# Flying cutter setup needed



## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

Hello
Im looking for a reliable way of controlling the motion of a flying cutter.
I currently have a older setup and it is GAWD AWFUL. And the components are getting expensive and in one case, discontinued.

We have a controller for a air-powered flying cutter that we like. AMS Controls makes that one. The rest of the cutters are servo based. I am looking for a reliable modern servo setup or a reliable modern air setup.

Would like something more or less "canned", as we dont have the time to do a lot of tweaking day-to-day.


Thanks in Advance.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Gotta say guy, I have no idea what you are talking about. 

Are you sure you got the right forum? Sounds like a machinist thing







,

joke, I don't know what.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Tackdriver said:


> I am looking for a reliable modern servo setup or a reliable modern air setup.


You do realize this is an _electrical_ forum? :whistling2:


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> You do realize this is an _electrical_ forum? :whistling2:


 Sounds like he's looking for a control system, that's electrical.

What a flying cutter is I don't know.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I googled it, got flying bat shaped cookie cutters.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

mattsilkwood said:


> Sounds like he's looking for a control system, that's electrical.


I'm not sure what a servo setup is, but I am pretty sure a "_a reliable modern air setup_" is not electrical. :whistling2:

Tackdriver, FOLLOW UP PLEASE.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

If it's a commercial bakery or kitchen cutter, try Hobart. It sounds familiar from years ago.


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

Once you start talking pneumatics and servo drive you're better off talking with an automation designer, contractor, or manufacturer. I don't know how much luck you're going to have with your retrofit wishes. You may be better off buying a complete package. But with the cost of that equipment, it's easier said than done.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> I'm not sure what a servo setup is, but I am pretty sure a "_a reliable modern air setup_" is not electrical. :whistling2:
> 
> Tackdriver, FOLLOW UP PLEASE.


 You have to have solenoids, and something that tells the solenoid to fire. :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

mattsilkwood said:


> You have to have solenoids, and something that tells the solenoid to fire. :whistling2:


Fair enough. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Looks like he is talking about this pop up ad that showes up on this thread...

http://www.wunderground.com/radar/r....val=1&setprefs.7.key=RADSMO&setprefs.7.val=1


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

A flying cutter is a device mounted on rails that will accelerate a saw or shear to the speed of an extruded product and cut it off without stopping the product from moving. 

I've worked on these in two different plants.

One uses a rollformer to make the metal pieces that hold a window screen out of a strip of metal about 2" wide. It goes through a bunch or rollers that bend it into a square shape, and has a laser at the end to cut the slot for the screen. It has a flying saw that cuts it to the desired length. It has a 2" blade attached to an air motor that starts just before it's lowered down into the metal.

The other plant makes barn tin and Q decking. It has a flying cutter that shears the metal. this one has a 30HP motor attached to a pneumatic clutch that moves the flying shear. The moving part weighs about 800 lbs. Every time it shears, you can feel the concrete slab bounce a little throughout the entire plant. 

I can't remember who makes either one, I think the controls for the shear one are made by Indramat, but I'm not sure.


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## tommu56 (Nov 19, 2010)

here is a link 

http://www.ab.com/motion/applications/flyshr_b.html









tom


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## tommu56 (Nov 19, 2010)

here are the other guys:laughing::laughing::laughing:
http://www.automation.siemens.com/m...ng/solutions/flying-saw/Pages/flying-saw.aspx

tom


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## travelingelec (May 31, 2011)

A place i use to work at had a flying cutter on a coragator. It had a bank of 8 capasitors the size of 5 gallon buckets. The blade was on a cylinder 10' long and it wrapped 3/4 around it. _ hated working on that thing. _


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## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

I think I should be a bit more clear about my needs. My plant extrudes a long, thin, paper product. the flying cutter matches the speed of the product as it exits the line and cuts it to length. The cutter carriage travels about 3 feet, the product is cut by a pnuematic powered knife, and the carriage returns to its start position. 

We control the travel of the carriage using two methods. One is to use a servo, amp, and motion controller. The second is to use a pnuematic cylinder and valve, this is connected to a dedicated cut-to-length controller, the AMS 300. 

I prefer the AMS 300 to the servo setup. But I might have to stick with a servo for the time being, due to "political" pressure from others higher up in the plant. What I could do if I cant make the AMS upgrade happen is get a better, up to date, servo-amp-motion controller combo. What I DONT want is any type of encoder that uses a glass disk. They dont survivie here. Our engineer is looking into attaching a resolver to the servo. I also dont want a ton of analog signals running around the machine; I want all digital signals. 

Ok, I hope this clears things up, sorry for not being clear in the first place.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

I have dealt with the AMS systems on sheet metal flying punch presses and shears. For the money, they are hard to beat. They are easy to set up and adjust. Their tech support is top notch.

The only "problems" that I had, was the machine, that the AMS was controlling, was completely worn out mechanically.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

JohnR said:


> I googled it, got flying bat shaped cookie cutters.


LMAO! So did I!

http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Cookie-Cutter-Black-Coated/dp/B000LCQY98


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## mutabi (Jun 2, 2009)

We use Indramat systems for our flying saws. I HATE flying saws.


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## Jaycen (Jun 20, 2011)

Hi, guys.

AMS has a version of the MP300 that will handle a servo application. We deal with several roll forming machine types, including machines described by Tackdriver. In fact, I've been helping a customer who rolls paper for cardboard packing materials in a cut-to-legth application.

Give us a shout, Tackdriver: www.amscontrols.com - [email protected]

I'm sure we can help you on this other machine application.


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## Jaycen (Jun 20, 2011)

varmit said:


> I have dealt with the AMS systems on sheet metal flying punch presses and shears. For the money, they are hard to beat. They are easy to set up and adjust. Their tech support is top notch.
> 
> The only "problems" that I had, was the machine, that the AMS was controlling, was completely worn out mechanically.


Thanks a lot, Varmit. We appreciate the kind words.


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## Jaycen (Jun 20, 2011)

FYI, for those interested, our typical application is a roll form production line. Flat steel or aluminum is rolled into a coil from a metal processing plant. The manufacturer buys the raw product, and runs it through a machine that forms the metal into a finished shape.

Throughout the process, holes might be punched and the part is cut to length at the end. This manufacturing process is probably the single largest consumer of steel in the world.

Many automotive, fenestration, aerospace, and building products (purlins, studs, panels, T-grid, lathe, corner bead, etc) are produced from this method. For you electricians, all your conduit and wire cover trays are produced using roll forming.

Most of the equipment is controlled with PLC or industrial PCs and a variety of inverters, servos, HMI, motor contactors, relays, solenoids and sensors. "Flying" refers to the fact that during production, the material does not stop for press operations (punching or cutting), but all operations take place on-the-fly. The opposite machine type would be feed-to-stop, where all presses are stationary and the material is moved to position and halted during processing.

Hope that clears up some of the questions.


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