# 3 way common?



## fluke-e (Dec 12, 2008)

travelers always red/black or common always black?


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Nope, and nope. :no:

At least not in the US. Not sure about the codes in Canada.

I usually install some odd-ball color for the travelers, such as orange or purple. Helps to keep them separated.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

long as the grounded is not bare then the rest can pretty much be any number of color combos


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## niteshift (Nov 21, 2007)

I try to keep things simple for me, and those who may be in after me. Keep it simple stupid [K.I.S.S.]

So saying that I've almost always used black for common on 3-ways, red and white for travelers. But after reading a thread this past Thursday on having to re-identify the whites for feed to the switch, I think I have to now use a differant method. For a regular 14-3 romex 3-way now it will be red and black for travelers and the re-identified white for common.

Did I get this right, or am I just the stupid at the end of K.I.S.S.?


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

I usually work with romex, so I use black and red for the travellers, and re-identify the white when necessary. Have any of you had the "pleasure" of seeing two-wire traveller systems. Seems some of the old timers done this to save money and not have to buy three wire. Real fun to work behind. Also, a Sharpie marker works great to re-identify the white when necessary.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*3 way colors for travelers*

Well the guys always pull for travelers pink or purple or violet , but the switch leg always matches the color of circuit black /red/ blue or brown /orange/ yellow and we number the wire with circuit number in switch box . nice to know what others do in different areas sounds like the same . best to yas


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Kevin J said:


> ... I use black and red for the travellers, and re-identify the white when necessary.


That's my MO as well.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't have any (personal) hard-and-fast rules as to which colors do what. Some 3-ways install easier when roughed one way, and others are easier to wire another way.

For instance, if I'm wiring a 3-way in a hallway, I'll feed to power to one switch, 14-3 to the other, and take the switch leg from there to the light(s). But a stair 3-way, I'm more apt to bring the power and the switch leg to one box, and run a 14-3 to the other level and dead end it. Saves NM and boot leather.

The only method I keep consistent is to wrap the common around the ground & travellers when making the box up. If one of them ends up being white, it gets remarked during rough.


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## Mr 440 (Nov 10, 2008)

easy to no 
1) start with the white on power line .
2)travel with red /black
3)finish with black screw to the black wire load 

Suppose you have a light 
white (neutral)on white screw and black on gold screw:thumbup:


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## rude boy splicer (Dec 13, 2008)

480sparky said:


> For instance, if I'm wiring a 3-way in a hallway, I'll feed to power to one switch, 14-3 to the other, and take the switch leg from there to the light(s). But a stair 3-way, I'm more apt to bring the power and the switch leg to one box, and run a 14-3 to the other level and dead end it. Saves NM and boot leather.
> 
> The only method I keep consistent is to wrap the common around the ground & travellers when making the box up. If one of them ends up being white, it gets remarked during rough.


Wraping the common around the travellers helps so much, I always do that. I don't much like running dead end three ways though, i only do it if I must.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I use black and red as travelers and lately re identifying the white when necessary. And in conduit my travelers are usually a 277 color for 120 and and pink or purple for 277.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

rude boy splicer said:


> Wraping the common around the travellers helps so much, I always do that. I don't much like running dead end three ways though, i only do it if I must.



I am a big fan of dead end three ways I think it's the way to go! Or even better a "two wire traveler".


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## a-bulb (Feb 13, 2008)

Kevin J said:


> I usually work with romex, so I use black and red for the travellers, and re-identify the white when necessary. Have any of you had the "pleasure" of seeing two-wire traveller systems. Seems some of the old timers done this to save money and not have to buy three wire. Real fun to work behind. Also, a Sharpie marker works great to re-identify the white when necessary.


What is this? Run 2- 2 wires instead?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

i love finding two wire travelers :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nolabama said:


> i love finding two wire travelers :thumbsup:


Right up there with California 3-ways.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Basically for the three ways shuttle { travallers } I have no spefic colour combation it pretty much varies depending on the building set up and voltage.

For in the conduits normally either purple or pink depending on voltage.,


For Romex's if I have to use the white as common c'est simple grab a sharpie and mark it down and with rough in I twist it around or fold one end by double fold one of the two way I do it.

Merci,Marc


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

When dealing with multi-conductor cable, I use red/black for travellers and reidentify the white.


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

As a rule, I feed one end, switch the other, 3 wire between. Each 3-way then has a red/black traveler combo, and another black on each common. The nuet carries through from feed to switch. Sometimes on stairs I will dead end the 3-way.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

i try to wire three ways like mountain 

what do you mean by dead end the three way?


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

nolabama said:


> i try to wire three ways like mountain
> 
> what do you mean by dead end the three way?


Feed and switch coming from one box, and a 3 wire from that same box to the other 3 way switch. The second box has only the 3 wire in it. I then use the neut (like pretty much everyone else) as the common, and re-identify it.

Pretty much the only time I use this is for stairs. We try to standardize, so everyone wires everything the same way. We also label all our wires in the switch boxes rather than some complicated twisting system. This way whether you rough in or device out, it makes no difference. You don't have to stop and think, you just go. Since I don't use the profit holes, I have to save labor some other way. If I label things, I can use unskilled, half ******** helpers. :thumbsup: As long as they can read. English.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nolabama said:


> ....what do you mean by dead end the three way?


A 3-way switch location with only a single 14-3 in the box..... no other NMs.


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

a-bulb said:


> What is this? Run 2- 2 wires instead?



Naw, the ones I've run across, they use one 14-2 romex for the traveller. They then feed it on one end and switch on the other end. Here's the real kicker: you still have to have a feed in both ends so the switch leg can get its neutral. With 14-3, you acclomplish this with the white wire bringing the neutral over. What's really screwed up is that to do a two wire traveller "properly", you would need to run the same feed to both ends of the three way, but that's not how it usually happens. They normally steal the neutral they need from another circuit, which is usually closer than running the same feed around. Well, it works, until you service the three way. You kill the breaker that the three way is fed with, but what happens when the neutral gets a load on it from that other circuit that you got it from? Nice pleasent surprise.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

the wiring method kevin j describes will not allow a AFCI to function properly


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

nolabama said:


> the wiring method kevin j describes will not allow a AFCI to function properly



I personally dont think it should be used anyway, 14-3 aint that expensive.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Kevin J said:


> Naw, the ones I've run across, they use one 14-2 romex for the traveller. They then feed it on one end and switch on the other end. Here's the real kicker: you still have to have a feed in both ends so the switch leg can get its neutral. With 14-3, you acclomplish this with the white wire bringing the neutral over. What's really screwed up is that to do a two wire traveller "properly", you would need to run the same feed to both ends of the three way, but that's not how it usually happens. They normally steal the neutral they need from another circuit, which is usually closer than running the same feed around. Well, it works, until you service the three way. You kill the breaker that the three way is fed with, but what happens when the neutral gets a load on it from that other circuit that you got it from? Nice pleasent surprise.



If you have run into the situation you describe it is only because someone did not know what they were doing. I would not say "they", and" normally steel" , You may have run into this situation before but I would venture to say it's an isolated incident. And if an electrician does not understand what he is doing and making this mistake then that individual has no business working unsupervised and would make many, many other mistakes.


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