# customer with OCD



## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

I have a customer with OCD and he wants 2 ground wires on EVERY
Device in the home. Also he requested "fail safe" switches because
He breaks them flipping them on and off. Some times as many as 100
Times per day(WOW!). 

Help me. WTH is a fail safe switch?

Also does anyone have any tips on dealing with an OCD person/customer. 


Thx,

J. HALL


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

jhall.sparky said:


> I have a customer with OCD and he wants 2 ground wires on EVERY
> Device in the home. Also he requested "fail safe" switches because
> He breaks them flipping them on and off. Some times as many as 100
> Times per day(WOW!).
> ...


:blink:

Light switches will take abuse for a while but they have moving parts; they *will* fail someday. Maybe get some spec grade ones or something heavier duty than a flimsy toggle.

Just a side thought; install a switch upside down and see how long it takes to get a callback on it :laughing::thumbup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jhall.sparky said:


> I have a customer with OCD and he wants 2 ground wires on EVERY
> Device in the home. Also he requested "fail safe" switches because
> He breaks them flipping them on and off. Some times as many as 100
> Times per day(WOW!).
> ...


His type of OCD is a good thing, be glad his OCD was not SAVING money. I would sell hime the most expensive DPST switches, jumper them out to use both contacts, so if one set fails, it will still work. Threeways are gonna get a little tricky:laughing:


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

jhall.sparky said:


> I have a customer with OCD and he wants 2 ground wires on EVERY
> Device in the home. Also he requested "fail safe" switches because
> He breaks them flipping them on and off. Some times as many as 100
> Times per day(WOW!).
> ...


just give him what he wants, just give him what he wants, just give him what he wants


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## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

erics37 said:


> <snip>
> 
> Just a side thought; install a switch upside down and see how long it takes to get a callback on it :laughing::thumbup:


:laughing:


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

if he has the cash, I would suggest low voltage switches and a lighting cabinet. He might miss the 'click click click' though.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Install occupancy sensors.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

erics37 said:


> :blink:
> 
> Light switches will take abuse for a while but they have moving parts; they *will* fail someday. Maybe get some spec grade ones or something heavier duty than a flimsy toggle.
> 
> Just a side thought; install a switch upside down and see how long it takes to get a callback on it :laughing::thumbup:


He won't go crazy on me he's a nice guy , he had to sign the invoice in pencil because
He don't like ink smudges. He had me install a electronic lock/dead bolt combo 
B/c he breaks the keys off in the lock. It is really weird because he cleans his
Hands constantly and acts like I have a flesh eating virus he may catch.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

don't know where you'd find these...

Non-mechanical types
Although mechanical contact-based switches are most commonly used for general purpose electrical switching, switches that have no moving parts are generally longer-lived. Piezo and capacitive switches are the two most popular non-mechanical switch types currently available. One advantage they have over mechanical contact-based switches is that they have no moving parts to wear out. This makes them capable of lasting for tens of millions of operations.[2] Glass reed switches use a thin metal "reed" that bends when a magnet is brought near it; since the entire unit is sealed in a glass tube, this helps protect the switch from moisture and dust that can damage regular switches.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

stuiec said:


> don't know where you'd find these...
> 
> Non-mechanical types
> Although mechanical contact-based switches are most commonly used for general purpose electrical switching, switches that have no moving parts are generally longer-lived. Piezo and capacitive switches are the two most popular non-mechanical switch types currently available. One advantage they have over mechanical contact-based switches is that they have no moving parts to wear out. This makes them capable of lasting for tens of millions of operations.[2] Glass reed switches use a thin metal "reed" that bends when a magnet is brought near it; since the entire unit is sealed in a glass tube, this helps protect the switch from moisture and dust that can damage regular switches.



Its too bad mercury was outlawed huh?


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

jhall.sparky said:


> Its too bad mercury was outlawed huh?


 
heh heh. seriously though, low voltage switches might work out. I know hubbell has a fairly large line of residential items of that sort. Dunno if he'd be interested in a departure from what he's used to though with the OCD and all


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

get paid up front


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

OCD is an extremely debilitating disease, someone very close to me has dealt with it for years. From what I understand it is like having your mind in a prison, if he is a nice guy just give him what he wants. I'm sure in his mind he knows it's overkill, but having the work done his way will set him at ease. I really feel bad for people with this disorder, I have seen what it can do to a person mentally and physically.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

cdnelectrician said:


> OCD is an extremely debilitating disease, someone very close to me has dealt with it for years. From what I understand it is like having your mind in a prison, if he is a nice guy just give him what he wants. I'm sure in his mind he knows it's overkill, but having the work done his way will set him at ease. I really feel bad for people with this disorder, I have seen what it can do to a person mentally and physically.


thanks for the help,

how do i make sure he doesnt become dependant on me doing unnessicary work.............. im not worried about the money its just im not sure this is a solution.

J.HALL


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

How are you going to handle the double grounds thing? I guess you could put 2 out from a pigtail. But what if he wants 2 all the way from the panel? I usually just get asked why they even need 1 egc.:001_huh:


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

jhall.sparky said:


> thanks for the help,
> 
> how do i make sure he doesnt become dependant on me doing unnessicary work.............. im not worried about the money its just im not sure this is a solution.
> 
> J.HALL


Im not entirely sure how I would handle that situation, if i were in your shoes I'd probably try my best to nicely explain why it is overkill and a waste of money. I suppose if it got to the point of you being uncomfortable doing the work that he's asking for then what else can you do then say you are too busy.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Hey, man, I've built nearly an entire business on catering to people like that. Sell them whatever it is they want to buy. Nut jobs ALWAYS pay their bill.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

cdnelectrician said:


> Im not entirely sure how I would handle that situation, if i were in your shoes I'd probably try my best to nicely explain why it is overkill and a waste of money. I suppose if it got to the point of you being uncomfortable doing the work that he's asking for then what else can you do then say you are too busy.


 
its not a waste its a psychological thing, he actually loses sleep over thinking he will shock himself, someone else, or burn the house down.......

the guy has been this way since he was 13 hes 33 now....... im sure he knows its overkill but he needs the work done its his health literally.........
also i WILL pull 2 grounds to every device............ he will not settle for less and thats that........... and at my markup on material hes paying around 40% more for the entire job..........................he knows this as well ................also he called me 6 times i thought he was gonna cry the last time i spoke to him..... when i left he was in the window watching me.....................


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> His type of OCD is a good thing, be glad his OCD was not SAVING money. I would sell hime the most expensive DPST switches, jumper them out to use both contacts, so if one set fails, it will still work. Threeways are gonna get a little tricky:laughing:


 
is it legal? im thinking changing the devices function would void the rating...............:001_huh:


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Hey, man, I've built nearly an entire business on catering to people like that. Sell them whatever it is they want to buy. Nut jobs ALWAYS pay their bill.


i just do not want a dependency thats all...........


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## eutecticalloy (Dec 12, 2010)

jhall.sparky said:


> Also does anyone have any tips on dealing with an OCD person/customer.
> 
> Thx,
> 
> J. HALL


charge him up the wazoo. You are probably one of very few contractors who deal with him. Also sell him on an isolated ground ing system, tvss, generator and whatever extra you can think of.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

eutecticalloy said:


> charge him up the wazoo. You are probably one of very few contractors who deal with him. Also sell him on an isolated ground ing system, tvss, generator and whatever extra you can think of.


his pops and my step dad are riding buddies..............:no:.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

jhall.sparky said:


> I have a customer with OCD and he wants 2 ground wires on EVERY
> Device in the home. Also he requested "fail safe" switches because
> He breaks them flipping them on and off. Some times as many as 100
> Times per day(WOW!).
> ...


No but just think he may pay you 100 times so your ok good for you !


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

just sell him gfci breakers for all circuits, it is a lot safer than 2 ground


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

oliquir said:


> just sell him gfci breakers for all circuits, it is a lot safer than 2 ground


Here many hospital circuits require two grounds. GFCIs do not prevent shocks.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jhall.sparky said:


> I have a customer with OCD and he wants 2 ground wires on EVERY
> Device in the home. Also he requested "fail safe" switches because
> He breaks them flipping them on and off. Some times as many as 100
> Times per day(WOW!).
> ...


Use top of the line 20 amp switches and do the wiring with hospital grade AC cable.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Hubbell Heavy Duty Industrial Grade
277V 20A 1HP
$20 each, those are probably as good as you're gonna get.

-John


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Here many hospital circuits require two grounds. GFCIs do not prevent shocks.


really what is the use of gfci then?? Tell me how a hair dryer for example is protected by 2 ground wire :whistling2:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

oliquir said:


> really what is the use of gfci then...?


 It can help prevent_ electrocution. _GFCI's will allow enough current to flow for a person to feel a shock.

Just theory, but a metal hair dryer with a redundant EGC might actually be safer than one protected by a GFCI because it, and any water it falls in, would in theory always be at ground voltage.

-John


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

oliquir said:


> really what is the use of gfci then??


To reduce the risk of fatal shock


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

oliquir said:


> really what is the use of gfci then?? Tell me how a hair dryer for example is protected by 2 ground wire :whistling2:


Are you arguing with him?? :blink: Go stick a screwdriver in a GFI and come back and tell me you didn't get shocked :no:


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

randas said:


> Are you arguing with him?? :blink: Go stick a screwdriver in a GFI and come back and tell me you didn't get shocked :no:


take a hair dryer with an egc and put it in a bath and well see who gets electrocuted :laughing:


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

a gfci wouldnt last a day in that guys house with him tripping and resetting them 100 times a day


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

I_get_shocked said:


> a gfci wouldnt last a day in that guys house with him tripping and resetting them 100 times a day


 
thats what i thought . the heavy duty switches and good wiring should be good enough for him................ OCD( "OBSESSIVE CUMPLUSIVE" disorder).

im not giving this guy MORE buttons and switches , and im not gonna create a head-ache for myself either............... i cant even send some one to this job IVE got to do it ..:thumbup:


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

jhall.sparky said:


> Its too bad mercury was outlawed huh?


 
I just walked by a big box of new mercury switches at a lumber yard we were re-lighting. I'm sure there are plenty out there if you look around.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> I just walked by a big box of new mercury switches at a lumber yard we were re-lighting. I'm sure there are plenty out there if you look around.


LOL well PM jhall and set up a deal where you buy and ship them to him...duh. :laughing:


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

mxslick said:


> LOL well PM jhall and set up a deal where you buy and ship them to him...duh. :laughing:


 
nah..... if i were gonna do that id use the two mason jars i got full...

break down all the tstats that make it to the shop...... used to get to turn in up to three mercury devices at the supply house when you bought a new tstat but ................ i would buy 30 or so and take in a drum full, they hated me and have since put a stop to the plan................

i hear theres a lab in ILL. that buys it buy the gallon so ive been saving up :thumbup:. got family up in carbondale........


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

JTMEYER said:


> I just walked by a big box of new mercury switches at a lumber yard we were re-lighting. I'm sure there are plenty out there if you look around.


take them and CAREFULLY extract the mercury and put it in a glass jar......

i hear that stuff runs a fair market.....:thumbsup:.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

jhall.sparky said:


> take them and CAREFULLY extract the mercury and put it in a glass jar......
> 
> i hear that stuff runs a fair market.....:thumbsup:.


 I dunno, I talked to a guy who once tried to sell a bunch he got out of some mercury contactors, and everyone told him it was considered hazardous waste and he'd actually have to *pay them *to take it.

-John


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

Big John said:


> I dunno, I talked to a guy who once tried to sell a bunch he got out of some mercury contactors, and everyone told him it was considered hazardous waste and he'd actually have to *pay them *to take it.
> 
> -John


 
scroll on down to mercury !.......

i sold about 20 lbs for $1500 in 2009........


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

finished this job today and had to keep the guy from hugging me ,

he was so relieved "that he wouldnt get shocked" i didnt have the heart to tell
him his toaster was............................ ahh, oh well , ignorance is bliss!:thumbsup:


thx guys for the advice!!!:thumbup:


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## bustabo (Aug 21, 2011)

I am interested in what you used . Did u end up using hospital grade mc and 20amp devices?


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

bustabo said:


> I am interested in what you used . Did u end up using hospital grade mc and 20amp devices?


no romex and a bare ground i placed in conduit piped to crawl space then out to pannel and no i installed an "unnecessary " amount of AFCI's

and yes 20ampere switches and recp.:thumbup:


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