# Long term report, Millwaukee Fuel



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Nice review and I think you are correct in that they had problems with the first design and corrected them. I've always preferred Milwaukee in any type power tool to most.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I accept that all these tools have life spans. I just killed the m12 impact and bought another. I think it made it three years, not sure. I killed the m18 hammer drill and bought another. Same thing, I think it made it three years, maybe more. I think as a whole, the cordless tool quality has improved. I don't have much to complain about my day to day usage cordless other than the m18 right angle drill is weak.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm still waiting to get my corded drill back from the doctor . Hopefully it gets another ten + years. Which will make it a fantastic value considering in the same period of time - 30 years , the cordless equal will need to be replaced every 5 ? years- that's six times. Six times 399- 2,400 bucks. My drill was $250 to purchase. I don't know how much the trigger is going to cost, and I think I have spent around $200 on previous trips to hospital for cord pigtail replacements thru it's lifespan. I have cussed out the extension cords for hanging up no less than ten million times however. The three of them together weigh probably ten pounds or more, so that is costly cargo to haul around for so many years of use. 

This could get really complicated to compare when it gets right down to it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I'm still waiting to get my corded drill back from the doctor . Hopefully it gets another ten + years. Which will make it a fantastic value considering in the same period of time - 30 years , the cordless equal will need to be replaced every 5 ? years- that's six times. Six times 399- 2,400 bucks. My drill was $250 to purchase. I don't know how much the trigger is going to cost, and I think I have spent around $200 on previous trips to hospital for cord pigtail replacements thru it's lifespan. I have cussed out the extension cords for hanging up no less than ten million times however. The three of them together weigh probably ten pounds or more, so that is costly cargo to haul around for so many years of use.
> 
> This could get really complicated to compare when it gets right down to it.


I've always bought my own Milwaukee repair parts and installed them myself. Normally cords and Sawzall triggers.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've always bought my own Milwaukee repair parts and installed them myself. Normally cords and Sawzall triggers.


I got the fuel hammer drill/driver when it first came out. There were issues with the chuck not ratcheting properly and getting loose over time. I just ordered the non hammer drill chuck and swapped them and haven't had an issue since. Might've been maybe $35 fix.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

In the long run, these tools are cheap. They make life so much easier and every second you save is profit. If we had to replace most of these tools yearly, it would still be gravy.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TGGT said:


> I got the fuel hammer drill/driver when it first came out. There were issues with the chuck not ratcheting properly and getting loose over time. I just ordered the non hammer drill chuck and swapped them and haven't had an issue since. Might've been maybe $35 fix.


Did you buy directly from Milwaukee or like Parts Company?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Did you buy directly from Milwaukee or like Parts Company?


Yeah some online Milwaukee parts website. This was about 4 years ago now.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

99cents said:


> I was one of the first to buy an M18 Fuel drill. I remember going to the store to buy one and the dude didn't know what I was talking about. I had to go shopping to find one. I don't know, it could have been five years ago.
> 
> It didn't take long for it to crap out. The transmission cratered. I complained and a guy from HO contacted me. He sent me a drill/impact combo, no questions asked, even though I only had a drill. I think initially Milwaukee had problems with Fuel and were going out of their way to shut guys like me up. They knew they were on to something with brushless.
> 
> ...


Sounds about right.
The first Milwaukee fuel tools were junk. We got a free cordless set from a tool supplier.
Sawsall wouldn't cut right. The blade would bounce around so much it was hard for anyone to get a clean metal cut. The gearbox exploded after a few months. The hammer drill would not keep a bit in the chuck. Think that lasted only a few months. 
The newer tools seemed much better in quality. 
Right now it seems like Milwaukee has countless cordless tools in stock at some box stores.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TGGT said:


> Yeah some online Milwaukee parts website. This was about 4 years ago now.


I was lucky in living close to a Milwaukee Factory service location, they had fair prices, better than Parts Co. I was just curious.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

The only thing that is not good on the fuel is the chucks . When we get new drills I put Rohm ratchet Type chucks . About 45 bucks for the chuck but what a difference .


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

catsparky1 said:


> The only thing that is not good on the fuel is the chucks . When we get new drills I put Rohm ratchet Type chucks . About 45 bucks for the chuck but what a difference .


Yeah, my chuck sucks and always has. You just develop he habit of always tightening it up on the fly.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

I've been happy with the M18 tools and the battery life. 
I have the four piece kit (1/4 impact,sawzall,hammer drill, flashlight). Don't use the light much.

Also a 7/8 impact that chucks directly to an auger bit.
That thing blows right through a telephone pole in about ten seconds all day. I barely break out the hydraulic impact gun anymore.
Great for bolting/unbolting pole bases too. My best friend in the middle of the night when the drunks run my sh*t over.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The bigger impacts are nice for pole bases.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I have a M18 hammer drill at work it is about 3 years old. I doubt if it has been used 20 times. The Chuck is absolutely JUNK. I generally get a corded drill with a key type chuck rather than mess with the M18.
The only keyless chucks that work are Albrecht and I have one on my 20" Clausing drillpress but that chuch cost $450.00.
I also have good luck with the ratchet chucks that you use with the impact driver.
One thing that I have noticed with the Albretch chuck is it will not hold anything that has the 3 flats like the good holeasw for stainless steel.
For that I have a Jacobs Super duty on its own #3 Morse taper. 
LC


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I have a M18 hammer drill at work it is about 3 years old. I doubt if it has been used 20 times. The Chuck is absolutely JUNK. I generally get a corded drill with a key type chuck rather than mess with the M18.
> The only keyless chucks that work are Albrecht and I have one on my 20" Clausing drillpress but that chuch cost $450.00.
> I also have good luck with the ratchet chucks that you use with the impact driver.
> One thing that I have noticed with the Albretch chuck is it will not hold anything that has the 3 flats like the good holeasw for stainless steel.
> ...


I have the M18 hammer drill but it has only had hex shaft items in it, holesaws and augers. Never used it as a hammer drill because I have the 18v SDS.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I have a 7/8"Bosch corded SDS does a nice job for drilling. Not to impressed for demo but for that 



I have a Black & Decker Macho 3. It does a good both drilling and demo.
LC


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I have a 7/8"Bosch corded SDS does a nice job for drilling. Not to impressed for demo but for that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've got a Bosch Bulldog that drills up to 3/4" nicely and a larger Bosch SDS that does decent at drilling and medium demo.


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## tommydh (Feb 7, 2014)

I have found Milwaukee to be the most durable of the common brands. I have the 12v Fuel Hammer Drill/driver, the 5/8" SDS Hammer drill and I am complertely satisfied with them. I was shocked at the power of the drill at 12v after years ago remebering 14v and so on. When I finally break down and replave my V28 stuff I am going with the newer Fuel. Each manufacturer has various levels of tools and as long as you know what your needs demand they are all decent its when you get lured in with the low price of an item to find out maybe the extra dollars was worth it.


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## tommydh (Feb 7, 2014)

​


MechanicalDVR said:


> I've got a Bosch Bulldog that drills up to 3/4" nicely and a larger Bosch SDS that does decent at drilling and medium demo.


The Bosch stuff is very nice and great prices if it wasnt that I snagged up 3 Hiltis from a company that was closing I would have stuck with the Bulldog. I have had 2 of them the 7/8" and the 1" model the biggedst plus is the 3 way selection.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

tommydh said:


> ​
> The Bosch stuff is very nice and great prices if it wasnt that I snagged up 3 Hiltis from a company that was closing I would have stuck with the Bulldog. I have had 2 of them the 7/8" and the 1" model the biggedst plus is the 3 way selection.


I just gave a couple Hiltis to a nephew that's starting out.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I purchased a Fuel shortly after they came out. The only problem I ever had with the original is the design of the 3 speed switch made it easy to bump it with your little finger. Milwaukee sent me a new driver free of charge. The old one is still plugging away. I've never had a M18 tool fail other than the driver that I dropped into a sump. I've got the M18 flashlight, 1 1/8 hammer drill, framing saw, metal saw, hackzall, driver, angle driver, drill/hammer drill, blower, vacuum, and hole hawg among other tools and love everyone of them. The M12 line is great also. I prefer the larger batteries in the M12. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

bosch bulldog is it .
hilti is great but the bulldog is the stinky poop .

The 18 v milwaukee sds is great but if you need crazy ------------------

a corded tool is required


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

catsparky1 said:


> bosch bulldog is it .
> hilti is great but the bulldog is the stinky poop .
> 
> The 18 v milwaukee sds is great but if you need crazy ------------------
> ...


Many have stated the benefits of the M12 SDS.


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Many have stated the benefits of the M12 SDS.



I've got the M12 Fuel SDS and I just love it. Especially when drilling for anchors overhead. Hardly use my Hilti TE30 any more. :thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

daks said:


> I've got the M12 Fuel SDS and I just love it. Especially when drilling for anchors overhead. Hardly use my Hilti TE30 any more. :thumbsup:


Pound for pound it's an awesome machine.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah the m-12 is a funny product . You think 12 volt , but it can kick ass yo .


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

catsparky1 said:


> Yeah the m-12 is a funny product . You think 12 volt , but it can kick ass yo .


A car battery is 12volts and has plenty of ass behind it.


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## tommydh (Feb 7, 2014)

MechanicalDVR said:


> A car battery is 12volts and has plenty of ass behind it.


yea but it is a little bit heavier than the tool battery. I would be interested in knowing what the cca of say the 4.0 ah battery has just for poops and giggles


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## Patriot1776 (May 20, 2016)

For all you guys that need tool parts - if you can't find them anywhere else check with ereplacementparts.com I buy most of my parts from them and am able to get my tools back up and running in short order.

I have run Makita for years but the batteries keep dying so I am needing to replace them, and have been comparing the pros and cons of Rigid vs Milwaukee. Now at work they provide us with Milwaukee tools so I have a tendency to lean that direction because I am familiar with them, but for home use and occasional bigger projects I am really liking the lifetime free batteries, parts, and service that Rigid has to offer. The only thing I don't like so far about the Rigid stuff is the weight. 


And to those that complain about the cordless right angle drill from Milwaukee - which one is it? The Hole-Hawg? Super Hole-Hawg?

We use the cordless super hawg at work all the time and love it! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

Just a thought, no experience speaking here. If ridgid were any good, would they have to give free batteries for life to get people to buy? I don't know, never owned one, I just don't have confidence in TTI, I just feel that ridgid is rebranded ryobi. I'm a makita fan boy when it comes to cordless tools, and Milwaukee for corded.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

My uncle bought a rigid set to use around the house maybe five years ago - drill, impact, circular saw, reciprocating saw, and a light. I've used them on various weekend projects and they'll probably last him forever. He's the type to register everything and keep it on file. He did get replacement batteries at least once. 

I wouldn't buy one, but I played around with their impact on display at HD a couple weeks ago, it was big but worked very well. The rest of the tools I am skeptical about being pro quality but probably adequate for occasional use.


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

I think the professional tool makers damaged their brand when they tried to get in the mass market big box stores with "affordable" tools. But that's just my opinion. I don't think ridgid changed the 535 because they started building cordless tools for HD, but I don't feel the same about them because of their decision. But then again, I think it was dumb of Greenlee to go into screwdrivers and pliers, dumb of dewalt to go into sockets and wrenches, and dumb of southwire to get into hand tools.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Patriot1776 said:


> For all you guys that need tool parts - if you can't find them anywhere else check with ereplacementparts.com I buy most of my parts from them and am able to get my tools back up and running in short order.
> 
> I have run Makita for years but the batteries keep dying so I am needing to replace them, and have been comparing the pros and cons of Rigid vs Milwaukee. Now at work they provide us with Milwaukee tools so I have a tendency to lean that direction because I am familiar with them, but for home use and occasional bigger projects I am really liking the lifetime free batteries, parts, and service that Rigid has to offer. The only thing I don't like so far about the Rigid stuff is the weight.
> 
> ...



Ridgid powertools remind me of Russian military hardware, big bulky ugly and when it stops working you can use it as a hammer!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

foothillselectrical said:


> I think the professional tool makers damaged their brand when they tried to get in the mass market big box stores with "affordable" tools. But that's just my opinion. I don't think ridgid changed the 535 because they started building cordless tools for HD, but I don't feel the same about them because of their decision. But then again, I think it was dumb of Greenlee to go into screwdrivers and pliers, dumb of dewalt to go into sockets and wrenches, and dumb of southwire to get into hand tools.


They are just trying to keep up with the Jones's! Lord forbid they lose any market share. 

Porter Cable was a well known old standard in woodworking, then they made tools for Home Depot and their line went to sh!t!

I have one of their Tiger Saw orbital sawzalls that is 20+ years old, it's a beast for cutting wood, always basically kept it just just for that.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Patriot1776 said:


> And to those that complain about the cordless right angle drill from Milwaukee - which one is it? The Hole-Hawg? Super Hole-Hawg?
> 
> We use the cordless super hawg at work all the time and love it!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The m12 right angle drill. It's super low on torque. I had one for about 5 years and it would get the job done very slow!
I finally fried it and bought a new one. slapped in a 4.0 and after a few holes it started smoking. The m12 vacuum also sucks, albeit not with much suction. 


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

I just can't comprehend why these guys don't stick to their respective areas of expert competency. I have wrenches and sockets, but when I found out my customers lawn mower would crank I didn't offer to fix it!

Those guys, dewalt for example, launch a tool line, it does well for a few years, then sales slump. Low sale and high warranty returns causes the bean counters to drop the line, and thousands are left with $hit tools that can't be warranted. I just don get it!


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

Sorry OP. I didn't mean to high jack your Milwaukee thread. I'm done, off my soap box now.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

foothillselectrical said:


> I just can't comprehend why these guys don't stick to their respective areas of expert competency. I have wrenches and sockets, but when I found out my customers lawn mower would crank I didn't offer to fix it!
> 
> Those guys, dewalt for example, launch a tool line, it does well for a few years, then sales slump. Low sale and high warranty returns causes the bean counters to drop the line, and thousands are left with $hit tools that can't be warranted. I just don get it!


They do it because they make more money that way. The same reason why companies who make great products start making the same product really crappy in order to sell it on Walmart's shelves for 1/3 the price.


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

HackWork said:


> They do it because they make more money that way. The same reason why companies who make great products start making the same product really crappy in order to sell it on Walmart's shelves for 1/3 the price.


Yeah, I get that they do it for profit. What I don't get is why we keep falling for it!
I went into one of my tool stores a few days ago, a Proto dealer, looking for a Proto too, chest. He said "we have this big dewalt for half the price." I laughed at him, I thought he was joking, but he wasn't. He didn't have a Proto anywhere at any location. I'm looking for a new tool guy now!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

But I would (and have) buy the Dewalt over the Proto. The same reason why I buy Milwaukee over Hilti, Festool, etc. 

Everyone knows I like Milwaukee tools, but I won't deny that they are cheap middle of the line products.


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

With all due respect, the people's republic of China thanks you. Meanwhile, the slave workers and prison labor in China, who's very meals are tied to their level of production, curses you. I just can't willingly support that type regime.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

foothillselectrical said:


> With all due respect, the people's republic of China thanks you.


 Tell them I said "You're welcome!".



> Meanwhile, the slave workers and prison labor in China, who's very meals are tied to their level of production, curses you.


 Tell them that I said "Sucks to be you.". 



> I just can't willingly support that type regime.


 But you do. You support it every single day of your life. Preaching about it doesn't change that fact.


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

Yes sir, I do. Every single day. But only if not given a choice. I'm not preaching, just voicing my opinion and trying to do the right thing. It's called integrity.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

foothillselectrical said:


> Yes sir, I do. Every single day. _But only if not given a choice_.


 Bologna, it's dependant on money. 



> I'm not preaching, just voicing my opinion and trying to do the right thing. It's called integrity.


Integrity? :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Good to see that you base integrity on how much money you are or are not willing to spend on a product :thumbsup:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

splatz said:


> I wouldn't buy one, but I played around with their impact on display at HD a couple weeks ago, it was big but worked very well. The rest of the tools I am skeptical about being pro quality but probably adequate for occasional use.


Quick follow up with this. I was back at HD the other day and they had both the Rigid 18V impact and the M12 impact on the display. I have the M12, and I saw the Rigid before, but still played with them a minute. 

With phillips deck screws, the same bit, several times side by side in the same 4x4, the little M12 sunk them half an inch into the wood before it slowed down. The Rigid just cammed out immediately and spun on the head. 

I am thinking the Rigid might be set up more for impact sockets and star bits that are used building decks and carpentry, not for general use.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

That's odd splatz. Just the nature of an impact gun alone is what makes it not cam out of screws.

Maybe the Rigid has a much slower impact (less beats per minute) and tries to muscle fasteners in instead, leading to it camming out?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> That's odd splatz. Just the nature of an impact gun alone is what makes it not cam out of screws.
> 
> Maybe the Rigid has a much slower impact (less beats per minute) and tries to muscle fasteners in instead, leading to it camming out?


I thought maybe the Rigid tool is more set up for torque and less of a blow into the material like a hammer drill. More like a mechanic's impact wrench. Carpenters drive lags and deck screws with star heads, not much phillips.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> I thought maybe the Rigid tool is more set up for torque and less of a blow into the material like a hammer drill. More like a mechanic's impact wrench. Carpenters drive lags and deck screws with star heads, not much phillips.


Ahh, so you are saying that you think the M12 hammers forward like a hammer drill instead of only rotationally?

I've seen people say that, but I have never seen anything mechanically to support it.

You are also thinking that the hammering forward is the reason why impact guns inherently don't cam out of screw heads? The way I've always understood it, the reason why they don't cam out is because the bit gets "reset" many times per second, and re-seats into the screw head. Opposed to a typical drill which puts solid rotational force on the bit and once it starts caming out it keeps going.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Keep in mind my frame of reference for my first impact driver was one like this 










(BTW still have it, sometimes knocks loose rusted frozen screws like magic)


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Look at about 2:20


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Look at this...
> 
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/hom...a-cutaway-view-of-how-an-impact-driver-works/


What do you take from that?

To me it looks like all of the force from the mechanism is going into impacting it rotationally. A little bit later in the video what he displays seems as if some secondary force might be impacting forward only due to the spring pushing the hammer forward so it's inline to hit the anvil. And that is something that I would imagine all impact drivers/wrenches/etc. do.


This is quite the conundrum!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> Keep in mind my frame of reference for my first impact driver was one like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks way newer than the old Craftsman one I have.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> What do you take from that?
> 
> To me it looks like all of the force from the mechanism is going into impacting it rotationally. A little bit later in the video what he displays seems as if some secondary force might be impacting forward only due to the spring pushing the hammer forward so it's inline to hit the anvil. And that is something that I would imagine all impact drivers/wrenches/etc. do.
> 
> ...


Well the hammer is rotating and travelling inline with the shaft, axially. It lands axially just before it rotates. So it sets the driver into the fastener before it turns. Some of the inertia is probably stored in the elasticity of the metal and still pushing into the fastener while it is turning. 

I imagine that some impacts could be set up with less spring tension in relation to the speed and weight of the hammer, that means some hammer harder than others.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Another possible factor ... the Rigid is a big heavy tool. It could be that the weight of the hammer in relation to the rest of the tool makes a big difference. The little M12 may be very light relative to it's hammer which would make the blow into the fastener much harder.


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