# How much do I charge? (side job)



## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

Hey, I'm new to doing side jobs but my real-estate agent just landed me one. The customer wants to replace 5 plugs in the kitchen and bathroom with GFCIs. Easy enough job, might not need to replace all 5 if I can feed the load side of the GFCI to any of the others that they want replaced. I'm not sure, I'll have to see what it's like when I get there. I don't want to screw the customer and install all 5 when it might not be necessary.

I live in Houston TX where labor is cheaper than other states, but I'm just wondering how much you'd charge for this job? The person lives 20 mins away from me. I'm not looking to rip them off at all, it's one of my first side jobs so if anything I want it to be lower than normal, just to get my foot in the door with clientele. 

Appreciate the advice and help, looking forward to knocking this out tomorrow.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

JasonCo said:


> Hey, I'm new to doing side jobs but my real-estate agent just landed me one. The customer wants to replace 5 plugs in the kitchen and bathroom with GFCIs. Easy enough job, might not need to replace all 5 if I can feed the load side of the GFCI to any of the others that they want replaced. I'm not sure, I'll have to see what it's like when I get there. I don't want to screw the customer and install all 5 when it might not be necessary.
> 
> I live in Houston TX where labor is cheaper than other states, but I'm just wondering how much you'd charge for this job? The person lives 20 mins away from me. I'm not looking to rip them off at all, it's one of my first side jobs so if anything I want it to be lower than normal, just to get my foot in the door with clientele.
> 
> Appreciate the advice and help, looking forward to knocking this out tomorrow.


If you want to get your foot in the door as "cheaper than normal", then that's exactly what they will expect for future jobs. Food for thought.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Got insurance?

Need a license?

Need Permits?


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

TGGT said:


> If you want to get your foot in the door as "cheaper than normal", then that's exactly what they will expect for future jobs. Food for thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes, true. I guess I just want to charge them normally, nothing high end or anything like that. Just a very competitive price for this one.


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

Helmut said:


> Got insurance?
> 
> Need a license?
> 
> Need Permits?


No sir, it's not required for this side job. Just an in and out and get the work done and pay in cash.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

JasonCo said:


> No sir, it's not required for this side job. Just an in and out and get the work done and pay in cash.



:vs_laugh:


Not required....


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

Helmut said:


> :vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> Not required....


Yes its required but I'm not pulling a permit to replace a plug . Owner doesn't want that. Didn't word it correctly. My question is how much is a normal price to charge for each plug and travel time?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Your state doesn't require certification? Cool! Liability ins. might be a different story.

$20 per+parts @ 75% markup. Don't doink around chasing ckts., unless you're going to charge hourly.


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

The reason they asked you is because it's convenient. Charge them a fair price but not to low. Think about what you would pay if you had asked a plumber to stop by and change a faucet. You're not going to under pay him? So don't under pay yourself. If they don't like your price, then it isn't worth your time.


Tim.


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

joebanana said:


> Your state doesn't require certification? Cool! Liability ins. might be a different story.
> 
> $20 per+parts @ 75% markup. Don't doink around chasing ckts., unless you're going to charge hourly.


So lets say my plug is $10.

$20+$10=$30
75% markup = $22.5
$20+$22.5 = $42.5
$42.5 per plug is what you're saying? Just off my example.

I didn't calculate the markup of the $20 per. Oh well you get the idea though. I guess that's how you do markup I'm guessing o_0. I'm such a nooby


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Is this rewire? 
These are my favorite type of threads.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

If you do a job without insurance you may be to stupid to be a real electrician. Honestly just do it for free because you are going to lose your asss.


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> Is this rewire?
> These are my favorite type of threads.


No rewire, just a simple swap from normal plugs over to GFCI plugs. For one of my first side jobs this is great, just what I need to ease my way into all this.  I'm defiantly interested though with the extra costs for a rewire. You don't have to open up those can of warms but that might be a question for the future lol.


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> If you do a job without insurance you may be to stupid to be a real electrician. Honestly just do it for free because you are going to lose your asss.


That's something I need to look into then


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

JasonCo said:


> So lets say my plug is $10.
> 
> $20+$10=$30
> 75% markup = $22.5
> ...


Nope 

GFI $10 x !.75 = $17.50

Labor $20 ea

$37.50 ea


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

JasonCo said:


> Hey, I'm new to doing side jobs but my real-estate agent just landed me one. The customer wants to replace 5 plugs in the kitchen and bathroom with GFCIs. Easy enough job, might not need to replace all 5 if I can feed the load side of the GFCI to any of the others that they want replaced. I'm not sure, I'll have to see what it's like when I get there. I don't want to screw the customer and install all 5 when it might not be necessary.
> 
> I live in Houston TX where labor is cheaper than other states, but I'm just wondering how much you'd charge for this job? The person lives 20 mins away from me. I'm not looking to rip them off at all, it's one of my first side jobs so if anything I want it to be lower than normal, just to get my foot in the door with clientele.
> 
> Appreciate the advice and help, looking forward to knocking this out tomorrow.


Ask what your boss would charge and then charge about 1/10th as much because he is getting rich.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

JasonCo said:


> No rewire, just a simple swap from normal plugs over to GFCI plugs. For one of my first side jobs this is great, just what I need to ease my way into all this.  I'm defiantly interested though with the extra costs for a rewire. You don't have to open up those can of warms but that might be a question for the future lol.


Oh ...your'e _easing_ your way into it.

Well H**l , why didn't you just say so?:devil3:

Okay , so you don't have any of the legal requirements
for Texas or Houston proper...okay..I see.

Well there are a few guys around here that could probably
tell you how to fly under the radar cause they hate government 
intrusion...so I will leave that to them.

Because this is a realtor , probably a point of sale inspection
maybe even an inspection for a "rental" ...possibly a local building department requirement . ...because you said this was a realtor
and the realtor KNOWS you are not licensed , if I was you I 
would haul azz in the opposite direction.

If you do not know what "liability" means...look it up.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Ask what your boss would charge and then charge about 1/10th as much because he is getting rich.


If you don't mind I would like to ad after the"he is getting
rich" part...
"and...I don't want to rip anyone off":blink:


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## d2043 (Nov 12, 2013)

TGGT said:


> If you want to get your foot in the door as "cheaper than normal", then that's exactly what they will expect for future jobs. Food for thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk





First of all in Texas unless you have a electrical contractors license and insurance you are working illegally. Period. Check TDLR website. Dont risk it. I turn guys in who do side work and want to compete with legitimate contractors. . if you want to be in business, then get your masters and contractors license and join the legitimate contractors and do it the right way. Don't whore out your labor for a few extra dollars.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Just think if a bunch of guys like you took all the work your boss does you wouldn't have a job.

You will probably F up and get sued anyway.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

I'm not going to tell what you should price. I'm not going to tell you whether or not its legal, ethical, or whatnot. Nobody cares. What I will tell you is how to price adding GFCI Protection to a device. Notice I said, GFCI Protection and not GFCI Receptacle or Breaker. I don't charge per GFCI device, or per hour. I charge for GFCI Protection of the needed receptacles. Thought process, most circuits in a kitchen are daisy chained. Count how many devices need protection (4). I have one price for GFCI Protection per device. In this example I have 4. If I open the first recep and find the feed, I add the GFCI Recep and I'm done, but I'm still charging for all 4. If it's not in the first but the second, I add 2 devices and I'm done, and so forth. I do not spend anytime chasing circuits, it's a waste of my time and expertise. I'm giving them an upfront cost with zero surprises. I'm playing the odds. Sometimes it's the first recep, sometimes it's the last. I'm still getting paid for all 4 and for the amount I need to pay my Biz costs. Win some, lose some. You'll still be ahead in the end.


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## Flyingsod (Jul 11, 2013)

TGGT said:


> If you want to get your foot in the door as "cheaper than normal", then that's exactly what they will expect for future jobs. Food for thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




That’s absolutely true. OP, Don’t charge any less than you want to make on a continuous basis. I know from experience. Think about it. If you ever do work for them again that’s the price they will expect and will have a ****ty attitude if you raise prices. Any work you get from referrals will be with people who have been told how “reasonable” your rates are. They will also have attitudes if you don’t give them the rates they heard about via the referral. Selling yourself short doesn’t make sense with side work. Good luck


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

TGGT said:


> If you want to get your foot in the door as "cheaper than normal", then that's exactly what they will expect for future jobs. Food for thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


That sounds good on paper, and it's hard to disagree with, but in practice, it's not really true.
We are electricians. Generally we're in and out of a job, do our thing and that's it. Granted, I do have a good long list of repeat business, but mostly, I'm not at the same job twice. Even when I am, I'm certainly not there often enough were they remember your pricing system. In the service industry, which I am in, I only really head back to customers when something has gone wrong. And I would guess that those guys in the new construction side, never once see and end user.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Would a mod please move this thread to the "Business Lounge, Private" section?

Do we really need to be airing our pricing in public? Especially when it's coming from low balling, trunk slammers who really aren't in business. 

And no, I don't give $hit if the op can't post in the Business Lounge, Private" section.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

JasonCo said:


> So lets say my plug is $10.
> 
> $20+$10=$30
> 75% markup = $22.5
> ...


Sounds about right. You markup material only, unless it's an "emergency call" (off hours, holiday's, weekends, etc.)


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Don't do the job unless it's legal.


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## davegerver (Dec 5, 2014)

Flyingsod said:


> That’s absolutely true. OP, Don’t charge any less than you want to make on a continuous basis. I know from experience. Think about it. If you ever do work for them again that’s the price they will expect and will have a ****ty attitude if you raise prices. Any work you get from referrals will be with people who have been told how “reasonable” your rates are. They will also have attitudes if you don’t give them the rates they heard about via the referral. Selling yourself short doesn’t make sense with side work. Good luck
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Couldn't have said it better. Use to do a lot of side work for cheap to help pay bills. Didn't charge enough. Got wise got insurance and charged more. Don't do nearly as much now as my rate is more and people are cheap. Dont want to take the risk anymore so I did what was right and if they dont like my price then it's not worth my time

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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

$65 each, unless old house with cramped boxes


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

JasonCo said:


> No sir, it's not required for this side job. Just an in and out and get the work done and pay in cash.


If anything ever goes wrong in that house, do you think the real estate agent won’t throw you under the bus? Even if there is a fire somewhere else in the house, you can guarantee the insurance company will be told you did electrical work in the house. Just sayin


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> If anything ever goes wrong in that house, do you think the real estate agent won’t throw you under the bus? Even if there is a fire somewhere else in the house, you can guarantee the insurance company will be told you did electrical work in the house. Just sayin


What he is saying ^^^ and what I said in post 17 is
why you should not do this.

PS: OP is probably the only person in this scenario without 
a lawyer handling their paperwork too


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## WorksOutOfaVan (Jun 20, 2017)

What do handymen charge around there for unlicensed electrical work?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

eddy current said:


> If anything ever goes wrong in that house, do you think the real estate agent won’t throw you under the bus? Even if there is a fire somewhere else in the house, you can guarantee the insurance company will be told you did electrical work in the house.





lighterup said:


> OP is probably the only person in this scenario without a lawyer handling their paperwork too


Realtors, never forget, are sales people. Of course they will do whatever it takes to make the transaction go through, and not give a **** after. 

It doesn't have to be a fire, any problem or dispute at all - if the buyer gets wind the repairs were not proper, they'll raise a stink, and you'll get the short end. You're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

splatz said:


> Realtors, never forget, are sales people. Of course they will do whatever it takes to make the transaction go through, and not give a **** after.
> 
> It doesn't have to be a fire, any problem or dispute at all - if the buyer gets wind the repairs were not proper, they'll raise a stink, and you'll get the short end. You're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position.


Ive talked to a couple realtors about side jobs. The ones I talked too seemed to be on the up and up and looking for a licensed EC.

I didnt realise they were a realtor initially, otherwise I wouldnt have bothered.

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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

splatz said:


> Realtors, never forget, are sales people. Of course they will do whatever it takes to make the transaction go through, and not give a **** after.
> 
> It doesn't have to be a fire, any problem or dispute at all - if the buyer gets wind the repairs were not proper, they'll raise a stink, and you'll get the short end. You're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position.


This is a redundant type of post that probably should be closed
as soon as it gets started.

This is a DIY issue not a Pro Electrician issue.

There are plenty of electricians on this forum that are not_ licensed_
but that's not the issue. Journeyman and apprentices working under an
employers license or the self employed working under their
own licenses are what the pro forum is for.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> Ive talked to a couple realtors about side jobs. The ones I talked too seemed to be on the up and up and looking for a licensed EC.
> 
> I didnt realise they were a realtor initially, otherwise I wouldnt have bothered.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


IME , most of the time , requests for_ free estimates_ to address 
point of sale violations are a disingenuous request ...they simply
want some numbers on a company letterhead to use for
negotiating the price up or down depending on which party
had the inspection done and which party the realtor represents.

All & all , this type of business has overwhelmingly been a dead 
end and if I were inclined to indulge there would be no
offer of a free estimate for starters.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I could care less if a dude is changing out devices or hanging a ceiling fan for grandma for that matter. Lots of guys run a legitimate side business. The key word is "legitimate". My insurance is less than fifty bucks a month. Operating as a sole proprietor is easy. Business licensing can be a little tricky but not impossible.

Once you're set up, it's done. You can put a magnetic sign on your Civic and print business cards.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

flyboy said:


> Would a mod please move this thread to the "Business Lounge, Private" section?
> 
> Do we really need to be airing our pricing in public? Especially when it's coming from low balling, trunk slammers who really aren't in business.
> 
> And no, I don't give $hit if the op can't post in the Business Lounge, Private" section.


I disagree. No moonlighter should have access to that. We should not encourage people to do illegal and dangerous work. If anything the guy should be banned.

If it was for his family or something like that I would be OK with it but this is for a realtor that should be hiring a real contractor. He could get himself over his head real fast.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

splatz said:


> Realtors, never forget, are sales people. Of course they will do whatever it takes to make the transaction go through, and not give a **** after.
> 
> It doesn't have to be a fire, any problem or dispute at all - if the buyer gets wind the repairs were not proper, they'll raise a stink, and you'll get the short end. You're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position.


You mean if say, such a handyperson couldn't fit the GFCI in the old boxes and left them dangling out of the backsplash, and the new owner ran into an electrician at lowes that informed him of the law, that what the realtor did was illegal, he was shortchanged, and went and looked at the house that is all hacked up, and needs a new service because the existing one is WAY out of any code that ever existed, a carpenter signed off on the electrical being ok after the home inspector made several notes, and made the new owner realize he should have walked on the deal?

That would be a mess. It might even lead to litigation. Or it could lead to the realtor paying for the repairs out of their own pocket to avoid such litigation. :biggrin:

(Side note: this is when I decided my answer to shoppers at lowes to "oh, are you an electrician?" is *NO*)


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

> You can put a magnetic sign on your Civic


not legal in Texas


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

cdslotz said:


> not legal in Texas


That's okay, I have never owned a Civic.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

What happens to you down the road in a year when gfi fails and somebody gets hurt or worse. in MN you end up in jail for involuntary manslaughter. You have NO recourse with out the proper inspection and license. DON'T DO IT.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> I disagree. No moonlighter should have access to that. We should not encourage people to do illegal and dangerous work. If anything the guy should be banned.
> 
> If it was for his family or something like that I would be OK with it but this is for a realtor that should be hiring a real contractor. He could get himself over his head real fast.


You're right and frankly I could care less about him for several reasons. More importantly, I don't want to educate the public on these low baller, hack rates. 

My interest and I'm sure it's yours, is to help raise the bar in our industry.


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## mjbasford (Oct 2, 2016)

This "Realtor" should not even call them self that. "Realtor" is a Nationwide association, not a license. They are licensed as real estate agents. When they join the Realtor association, one of their rules is Never refer a non insured and licensed business or individual for work.

Also, OP, charge $50 bucks for the whole job. Damn business owners and their greed, after all I can buy 4 GFCI receps off Amazon with no nrtl listing for 10 bucks! Easy beer money!


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

tmessner said:


> What happens to you down the road in a year when gfi fails and somebody gets hurt or worse. in MN you end up in jail for involuntary manslaughter. You have NO recourse with out the proper inspection and license. DON'T DO IT.


Overly dramatic much?


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

MTW said:


> Overly dramatic much?


Yeah I did a side job 48 years ago which I think about now and then. Not really correct but never heard anything bad about it and Mech hasn't posted a pic on it yet.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

You can put a magnetic sign on your Civic


cdslotz said:


> not legal in Texas


Civics are not legal in Texas?:vs_whistle:


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks for the responses, I understand why people would get upset at a post like this. When I mentioned that I want to do it cheaper than usual, I guess it's because I'm new at side jobs and just wanted to do one without getting denied by the customer. I wasn't really thinking about the percussions of thinking that way. I guess there's some sort of trickle affect where people keep trying to outbid the the next guy and over time the profit margins become lower and lower, which is a real issue here in Texas. That's why Journeymen in Texas are so god damn cheap compared to other states . One of the reasons...

IF I EVER do any more side jobs, I'll change my way of thinking when it comes to pricing. That job was from a client of a real-estate agent so I had to get my foot in the door. 

Doing side jobs as a Master with liability insurance is the way to go, but getting every side job inspected to cover your ass seams great on paper, it's unrealistic to think you will ever get side work that way. Getting a inspector to come out must be a pretty big extra cost if you are installing a ceiling fan or a couple of plugs like a lot of side jobs. No one is going to pay for an electrician to put in a plug for $400 because that electrician has to cover the cost of the inspector. The chances of getting most side work goes down the drain for the most part. 

Also now that I'm thinking about it, I work for a service company and at least half of the jobs I do for my company are not inspected. So does that mean I'm going to jail if I burn a building down and kill someone (Because my company didn't cover my ass)? My company expects me to rush out there, troubleshoot the problem and fix it. Or run out to a customer and install a couple plugs or put in a new panel and transformer, etc... Most of the time it's not inspected, sometimes it will be.

Lastly, maybe I'm wrong but probably 3/4 of my company does side jobs or practiced it at some point, it a pretty common thing all around my city. Everyone I work with does side jobs. Most side jobs are dominated by Journeymen. So to hear this sort of lash out was a big surprise! I expected most Journeymen on this forum to have done many side jobs in their lifetime.


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## mjbasford (Oct 2, 2016)

"IF I EVER do any more side jobs, "


So, what did you charge for this one?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

JasonCo said:


> Thanks for the responses, I understand why people would get upset at a post like this. When I mentioned that I want to do it cheaper than usual, I guess it's because I'm new at side jobs and just wanted to do one without getting denied by the customer. I wasn't really thinking about the percussions of thinking that way. I guess there's some sort of trickle affect where people keep trying to outbid the the next guy and over time the profit margins become lower and lower, which is a real issue here in Texas. That's why Journeymen in Texas are so god damn cheap compared to other states . One of the reasons...
> 
> IF I EVER do any more side jobs, I'll change my way of thinking when it comes to pricing. That job was from a client of a real-estate agent so I had to get my foot in the door. [emoji14]
> 
> ...


I believe the union rate for journeymen in Houston is about $32 before benefits. What is the average non-union down there?

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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

TGGT said:


> I believe the union rate for journeymen in Houston is about $32 before benefits. What is the average non-union down there?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


For the service company I work for, it's roughly 23-26/hour. A 4 year apprentice makes around 18 UNLESS he goes to IEC and does the 4 years of schooling, then you will top out at around 23 as an apprentice. Part of the 4 year program requires that the companies give mandatory raises every 1000 hours. I wish I had the chart but the beginning pay is around 11 or so, and after 4 years and getting a mandatory raise every 6 months, you are put around 23/hour. 

That is the standard that all companies must follow that are tied in with IEC and it only applies to guys who actually do the schooling. If you are an apprentice not going to school, my company can pay them whatever they want. That's why I did the 4 years of schooling lol, that and I learned a decent amount. Defiantly encourage it.

Anyways, that is average price for a journeyman/Apprentice in Houston if you work for a service company, at least to my knowledge. My company has around 25 Journeymen and 30 helpers I'd guess. Average is at 24-25 where I work. Go to some of the large companies and you'll start seeing better benefits and better pay. Not my company


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

matt1124 said:


> You mean if say, such a handyperson couldn't fit the GFCI in the old boxes and left them dangling out of the backsplash, and the new owner ran into an electrician at lowes that informed him of the law, that what the realtor did was illegal, he was shortchanged, and went and looked at the house that is all hacked up, and needs a new service because the existing one is WAY out of any code that ever existed, a carpenter signed off on the electrical being ok after the home inspector made several notes, and made the new owner realize he should have walked on the deal?
> 
> That would be a mess. It might even lead to litigation. Or it could lead to the realtor paying for the repairs out of their own pocket to avoid such litigation. :biggrin:
> 
> (*Side note: this is when I decided my answer to shoppers at lowes to "oh, are you an electrician?" is NO)*




:vs_laugh:you get this too huh?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

JasonCo said:


> For the service company I work for, it's roughly 23-26/hour. A 4 year apprentice makes around 18 UNLESS he goes to IEC and does the 4 years of schooling, then you will top out at around 23 as an apprentice. Part of the 4 year program requires that the companies give mandatory raises every 1000 hours. I wish I had the chart but the beginning pay is around 11 or so, and after 4 years and getting a mandatory raise every 6 months, you are put around 23/hour.
> 
> That is the standard that all companies must follow that are tied in with IEC and it only applies to guys who actually do the schooling. If you are an apprentice not going to school, my company can pay them whatever they want. That's why I did the 4 years of schooling lol, that and I learned a decent amount. Defiantly encourage it.
> 
> Anyways, that is average price for a journeyman/Apprentice i*n Houston* if you work for a service company, at least to my knowledge. My company has around 25 Journeymen and 30 helpers I'd guess. Average is at 24-25 where I work. Go to some of the large companies and you'll start seeing better benefits and better pay. Not my company


My only question for you now is 


Has Lebron James bought a house there ?


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

JasonCo said:


> Doing side jobs as a Master with liability insurance is the way to go, but getting every side job inspected to cover your ass seams great on paper, it's unrealistic to think you will ever get side work that way. Getting a inspector to come out must be a pretty big extra cost if you are installing a ceiling fan or a couple of plugs like a lot of side jobs. No one is going to pay for an electrician to put in a plug for $400 because that electrician has to cover the cost of the inspector. The chances of getting most side work goes down the drain for the most part.
> 
> You sound like a cheap azz home owner talking like that. Your an electrical apprentice, do you want to become an electrician and possibly an EC one day? I had a guy come fix my dishwasher last month and it cost me $300, my garage charges $100 an hour labour but pay a professional electrician who took 4 to 5 years to get certified? No way, I want it Cheap!
> 
> ...


And that is why your rate is low, there’s always someone willing to do the work on the side for peanuts. That practice and attitude is ruining the trade.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Many states have a "maintenance" exception in their laws
where it concerns _the legality of working without a permit_.

These same states still require the company handling maintenance 
_to comply with their laws_ where it concerns certain trades , our
trade is one of them...license , commercial activity insurance , 
municipal bonds , BWC insurance , income tax compliance to name some
just off the top of my head are still a requirement.

OP's argument about permits not being pulled
to go switch out a ceiling fan or receptacle further
expose his/her ignorance.


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

lighterup said:


> OP's argument about permits not being pulled
> to go switch out a ceiling fan or receptacle further
> expose his/her ignorance.


I don't think ignorance is a fair word to use when the whole premise of me coming to ElectrianTalk is to learn so I can prevent myself from becoming ignorant! XD I'm the one that asked the question about my company not pulling permits and me possibly going to jail for a job gone horribly wrong. 

The only reason I asked is because a company in Houston had a Journeyman go out to install the wiring for a pool, and long story short something went horribly wrong and a father died in the pool from being electrocuted (saving his son in the process). The journeyman was prosecuted for his part in it. So it's a fair question . Exposing my ignorance, sure... I can live with that, I'm barely past my teens. There are 60 year old Journeymen out there (that I know of) making 60k a year just on side jobs, and could care less about being educated. I think they are ignorant.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Permit requirements are local.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I do a ton of work for realtors. There is not a one I would trust.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

lighterup said:


> My only question for you now is
> 
> 
> Has Lebron James bought a house there ?


No need. He went to the Lakers!

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ng-los-angeles-lakers-4-year-154-million-deal


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

jbfan said:


> No need. He went to the Lakers!
> 
> http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ng-los-angeles-lakers-4-year-154-million-deal


Haha I actually didn't see that coming. I really thought he'd join the Rockets and dominate the league like Golden State did with KD a couple years ago (Even though they really didn't need KD...). Rockets is his only chance of a guaranteed ring. Like there is ZERO chance he is getting to the finals with the Lakers lol. I'd hate to go as far as to say not even the playoffs o_0. Oh well I don't blame him, 154m for 4 years, more power to him.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

JasonCo said:


> There are 60 year old Journeymen out there (that I know of) making 60k a year just on side jobs, and could care less about being educated. I think they are ignorant.


They could also care less about the future of the trade by doing that much on the side.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> They could also care less about the future of the trade by doing that much on the side.


If I employed people at a full time rate with benefits and
I found out *they* were undercutting the very business that
their family and the other families involved are relying on ,
*to the tune of 60K a year* I would immediately cancel 
the healthcare packages and direct everyone over to the 
Marketplace OBAMA CARE center.

If it's just (1) guy doing this (but OP makes it sound
like most everyone is) then it would become my personel
pleasure to start watching this guy for any reason to
get rid of him.

There's "side work" and then there's that (60k)


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

There is a chance someone in the food chain will want prof the repair was done by a licensed contractor. Not uncommon for a buyer to ask for a requested repair receipt. Or homeowner landlord wants proof of the repair charges from the management company. Instead of a receipt, the licensed sales agent (REALTOR) may just provide your name & number. That's when things can lead back to the contractor board.

As a TX master I would turn in someone for this in heartbeat to the contractors board. You risk loosing your ability to be licensed to be employed as an electrician in TX.

What the OP does not realize is electrical work for extra beer money to him, it's daily income to a legitimate EC business. The same type of EC that keeps him employed.

The OP complains about lower wadges. Moonlighters, handymen, and unlicensed hacks don't help the wage rate.

The liability the OP opens themselves to. It's like driving a car without a drivers license, insurance, & registration home from the bar. Could do it a 1000 times and nothing happens. But it only takes 1 time.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

active1 said:


> There is a chance someone in the food chain will want prof the repair was done by a licensed contractor. Not uncommon for a buyer to ask for a requested repair receipt. Or homeowner landlord wants proof of the repair charges from the management company. Instead of a receipt, the licensed sales agent (REALTOR) may just provide your name & number. That's when things can lead back to the contractor board.
> 
> As a TX master I would turn in someone for this in heartbeat to the contractors board. You risk loosing your ability to be licensed to be employed as an electrician in TX.
> 
> ...


:vs_clap:Exactly


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

active1 said:


> There is a chance someone in the food chain will want prof the repair was done by a licensed contractor. Not uncommon for a buyer to ask for a requested repair receipt. Or homeowner landlord wants proof of the repair charges from the management company. Instead of a receipt, the licensed sales agent (REALTOR) may just provide your name & number. That's when things can lead back to the contractor board.
> 
> As a TX master I would turn in someone for this in heartbeat to the contractors board. You risk loosing your ability to be licensed to be employed as an electrician in TX.
> 
> ...


We should throw trunkslammers over the wall too.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

Before I get started with what is going to probably turn into a long rant lol, just wanted to say that I am fine with my wages, I'm personally not complaining like some are thinking. I'm only speaking on behalf of what I'm seeing in the Houston area. The flawed system that is contributing to these lower wages. Also the greed that trickles down all the way from the Government, down to the hard working man. They take more and more money from business owners and as a result, it rubs off on the guys like me. Electrical company owners aren't any better, building multi-million dollar houses but not giving any employee a raise in over a year. So it's not just the low ballers out there that contribute to the corruption. There are actually bigger roots to the problem in my opinion. 

Also this trade is nothing but Masters trying to outbid other contractors, trying to outbid and lower the price to beat out the next person. I think when we are talking about someone's first ever side job, little old me sure is getting ripped in the ass for it! I Just really wanted my first little side job, and thought it was okay to charge a very fair price in order to get in with a real-estate agent. I actually see nothing wrong with that. 

What I do agree with is the fact that I'm not a Master. So I am learning a lot from this thread. I should wait 2 years until I get my masters license. That I agree with. 

Back to what I was saying about earning customers through lowering the price. Everyone around me does the exact thing that contributes to the problem. Supply houses do the same, they give discounted deals in order to maintain a partnership with a certain contractor. This entire world revolves around stuff like this. Amazon is bankrupting millions of businesses. Every business is guilty! Unless you are a doctor... Then you can charge whatever the **** you want because of insurance. Even they are criminal lol. My health insurance has gone up like 20% every year, yet I have never gone to the doctor in my life basically... This entire Nation is messed up. My generation is never going to be able to retire.

Lastly, why do plumbers make more than Electricians, why are wages going down or staying stagnant compared to other trades? The system is broken and corrupt, at least here in Houston it is. This city is so crowded, there is so much competition that it is so easy to find someone willing to do the job for less. You get what you pay for though, and most of these guys are **** electricians. 

I think they need to make the qualifications of a Journeyman harder, or Masters exam harder. With that, make it impossible to buy electrical supplies like receptacles and MC Cable unless you show your Journeyman license at the checkout. Something needs to change to help get rid of the corruption. If they can regulate alcohol to where it's hard to get at a certain age, they can damn well regulate electrical supplies as well. No home owner should ever be buying electrical supplies and doing electrical work. How are they going to know that the ****ty electrician before them used the ground as a switch leg lol. Anyways, this is too much rant, I must stop.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

JasonCo said:


> Also this trade is nothing but Masters trying to outbid other contractors, trying to outbid and lower the price to beat out the next person.



:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

This only happens to people who don't know how to sell for profit, so they resort to selling on price.

As far as your comment about EC's building multi million dollar houses and not giving out raises................is probably because you ain't worth a raise.

Every respectable owner knows he has to find, pay and retain the best guys. The rest are probably necessary liabilities needed to do dumbed down tasks like wire slingers and hole diggers. Which one are you?


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

Helmut said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> This only happens to people who don't know how to sell for profit, so they resort to selling on price.
> 
> ...


With all the tools and resources out now that help teach and inform companies of how to bid properly, it's getting harder and harder to not resort to selling on price. I've been in the trade for 4 years now and can tell you, for example.. Parallel running is sometimes a more cost effective way of earning better profits. All these things I have learned from the internet. That's just one example. So yeah, it's not going to get any easier. 

Also, I think that vast amounts of business owners out there are short changing their employees, even the good employees. Most of the good ones have to go as far as to leave in order to get a raise, or threaten to leave just to get one... It's sad. Tons of CEOs and owners have no idea how to run a business for long term profit, many of them can only think in short term. It all depends on who you work for. But sense you call me out on it! I have no complains at all when it comes to my wage, like I was saying in my last post. I am mostly just speaking on behalf of what I typically see in the Houston area. There is too much taking advantage of, business owners are guilty of this whether you are a hard worker or not. I agree the ones that just come to work for a paycheck, the ones that are on their phone all the time, should be payed accordingly. I have too much passion and self pride to allow myself to fall under this new generation of work ethic. It's almost like the new standard haha. Technology has its pros and cons


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

JasonCo said:


> With all the tools and resources out now that help teach and inform companies of how to bid properly, it's getting harder and harder to not resort to selling on price. I've been in the trade for 4 years now and can tell you, for example.. Parallel running is sometimes a more cost effective way of earning better profits. All these things I have learned from the internet. That's just one example. So yeah, it's not going to get any easier.
> 
> Also, I think that vast amounts of business owners out there are short changing their employees, even the good employees. Most of the good ones have to go as far as to leave in order to get a raise, or threaten to leave just to get one... It's sad. Tons of CEOs and owners have no idea how to run a business for long term profit, many of them can only think in short term. It all depends on who you work for. But sense you call me out on it! I have no complains at all when it comes to my wage, like I was saying in my last post. I am mostly just speaking on behalf of what I typically see in the Houston area. There is too much taking advantage of, business owners are guilty of this whether you are a hard worker or not. I agree the ones that just come to work for a paycheck, the ones that are on their phone all the time, should be payed accordingly. I have too much passion and self pride to allow myself to fall under this new generation of work ethic. It's almost like the new standard haha. Technology has its pros and cons



If I had a dime for every time I've heard this........


Look, mortgage your house, and start your own business. Then pay the biggest complainer on your payroll, whatever he wants.......cause you know everything, and get back to us on how that works out for you.


Your tune will change INSTANTLY.

Or quit your job.....


Either way, I'm tired of hearing your crap about employers, and how you feel you should undermine them, after only 4 yrs in the trade. Buck up, or shut up.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

JasonCo said:


> Before I get started with what is going to probably turn into a long rant lol, just wanted to say that I am fine with my wages, I'm personally not complaining like some are thinking. I'm only speaking on behalf of what I'm seeing in the Houston area. The flawed system that is contributing to these lower wages. Also the greed that trickles down all the way from the Government, down to the hard working man. They take more and more money from business owners and as a result, it rubs off on the guys like me. Electrical company owners aren't any better, building multi-million dollar houses but not giving any employee a raise in over a year. So it's not just the low ballers out there that contribute to the corruption. There are actually bigger roots to the problem in my opinion.
> 
> Also this trade is nothing but Masters trying to outbid other contractors, trying to outbid and lower the price to beat out the next person. I think when we are talking about someone's first ever side job, little old me sure is getting ripped in the ass for it! I Just really wanted my first little side job, and thought it was okay to charge a very fair price in order to get in with a real-estate agent. I actually see nothing wrong with that.
> 
> ...


yeah you're right

but as a business owner and a capitalist (not socialist), I would say that there is another side to the story


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Pretty hard to give employees raises, when they're out there doing side work, while cutting their employers throats.

You must be the quintessential millennium with the attitude "pay me more, and I'll do more"

You need an attitude adjustment.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

JasonCo said:


> Before I get started with what is going to probably turn into a long rant lol, just wanted to say that I am fine with my wages, I'm personally not complaining like some are thinking. I'm only speaking on behalf of what I'm seeing in the Houston area. The flawed system that is contributing to these lower wages. Also the greed that trickles down all the way from the Government, down to the hard working man. They take more and more money from business owners and as a result, it rubs off on the guys like me. Electrical company owners aren't any better, building multi-million dollar houses but not giving any employee a raise in over a year. So it's not just the low ballers out there that contribute to the corruption. There are actually bigger roots to the problem in my opinion.
> 
> Also this trade is nothing but Masters trying to outbid other contractors, trying to outbid and lower the price to beat out the next person. I think when we are talking about someone's first ever side job, little old me sure is getting ripped in the ass for it! I Just really wanted my first little side job, and thought it was okay to charge a very fair price in order to get in with a real-estate agent. I actually see nothing wrong with that.
> 
> ...



One word.......


Unionize!!!


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

This is a little like listening to a cab driver talk about what he'd do if he was the mayor or some armchair athlete talk about how they'd run plays if they were in the big leagues. 

Do you know how ironic it is you don't even have liability insurance but you think you really know how business "should be" conducted, and why everyone in business is all wrong, and you really understand how to be a true blue square dealer? 

SMFH 

:laughing:


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Some people are forgetting who mortgaged the house, put in long hours on the job then did the paper work at night, took all of the after hours service calls, etc. they are also the ones who are responsible now to see to it that payroll is met , that there is enough work on the books or maybe to much work on the books so you can have your vacation and free time. I have owned my own business since 1981 and have grown from a one man shop to 10 employees. I think the owner is entitled to something for taking all of the risk of gain or loss. It is a good thing there is some reward to being the head of the pack or you would not have a job.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I been reading this since it started....(this thread that is)
and I honestly forgot what the original OP's question was:vs_laugh: 
...oh and I'm not goin' back and reading all this again.

Jason...if I'm understanding the crux of your argument
(and justification) for low balling ...in a nut shell...it
sounds like you're saying ..."well everyone else does it"

I'm picturing Jeebs from MIB...'well he looked alright to me'

and bro...your attitude toward employers ...daaaammmn
Nobody gets a job from a poor man


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

It's a discussion about different view points, not a "I know it all" and lets **** on the "I know it all" kid because of course he thinks he knows it all. If you want to throw out insults, that's fine. I'd rather read people who want to insult that back up their insults with facts as to why you disagree. Rather than to say I'm just a 4 year apprentice... What does he know. That's nice, but the insults have no meaning if you can't back them up.

I'll leave it at this. In 2017, median household net worth improved across all platforms, up 16% overall since 2014 but those on the higher end of the income spectrum did the best. The top 10% of earners saw their household net worth increase 40% over the three-year period. So the economic divide between CEO's and employees has consistently gotten worse and worse. Here's another way of looking at it... The top 1% NOW (2018) holds 38.6% of the nation's wealth, up from 33.7% in 2007. The bottom 90% now holds only 22.8% of the nation's total wealth, down from 28.5% in 2007.

Also, I agree 100% with you tmessner, that owners should be rewarded when they take risk. No risk, no reward. 100% agree with that. It's hard to have drive to succeed and become a business man if there is no reward. That's what the American dream is all about. My argument is the extent of greed the CEO's are willing to take. You can tell me I need an attitude adjustment, if that makes you feel better. But it is almost none debatable lol, the facts are out there Helmut.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I need a translator ^

I don't understand Coptic Greek

What insult? 

Never mind...Jason ...god luck with your side biz


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

lighterup said:


> What insult?


Well, sense you ask o_0. You liked the very post comparing me and the business aspect of the electrical trade to a cab driver trying to become the mayor. You clearly don't know my background, so it's sort of insulting sense you asked. XD Don't just assume I'm only good for digging dirt. Oh wait... that was also said in an earlier post lol. Just read. Also apparently I'm a quintessential millennium and needing an attitude change lol. YOU can call me ignorant all you want (#54) , but honestly in the whole grand scheme of things I don't care about being insulted. No one is a know it all, it's pointless to just make assumptions about other people over the internet.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I see


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

lighterup said:


> I see


You forgot the...


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Fify


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

OP starting to sound like someone else that used to be around here

no names please


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

You ask, I deliver. My new motto for side jobs. :thumbup:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I know the following...
(a) what state you're REALLY from
(b) Who you really are:vs_laugh:

I gotta admit...you had me going ...for a while


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

JasonCo said:


> It's a discussion about different view points, not a "I know it all" and lets **** on the "I know it all" kid because of course he thinks he knows it all. If you want to throw out insults, that's fine. I'd rather read people who want to insult that back up their insults with facts as to why you disagree. Rather than to say I'm just a 4 year apprentice... What does he know. That's nice, but the insults have no meaning if you can't back them up.
> 
> I'll leave it at this. In 2017, median household net worth improved across all platforms, up 16% overall since 2014 but those on the higher end of the income spectrum did the best. The top 10% of earners saw their household net worth increase 40% over the three-year period. So the economic divide between CEO's and employees has consistently gotten worse and worse. Here's another way of looking at it... The top 1% NOW (2018) holds 38.6% of the nation's wealth, up from 33.7% in 2007. The bottom 90% now holds only 22.8% of the nation's total wealth, down from 28.5% in 2007.
> 
> Also, I agree 100% with you tmessner, that owners should be rewarded when they take risk. No risk, no reward. 100% agree with that. It's hard to have drive to succeed and become a business man if there is no reward. That's what the American dream is all about. My argument is the extent of greed the CEO's are willing to take. You can tell me I need an attitude adjustment, if that makes you feel better. But it is almost none debatable lol, the facts are out there Helmut.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. I will never understand how a CEO with no skin (ownership or sweat equity) in the game is worth millions of dollars a year. And when they get canned they still get a HUGE severance package and go on to another CEO position. 
My retirement is not coming from union dues, or an employer sponsored rertirement plan. Messner Electric is my retirement only if it is a viable business that can be sold to the next generation.


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

:vs_whistle: Haha yeah you got me! I'm that guy. You know. The good ol Fify! All those questions 3 years back about what the green wire does and where to find a wire stretcher, it was all a cover up :devil3:


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

In the trades there's a point when some apprentices think they have it all figured out.
That's where JasonCo is at now.

Eventually they'll be thrown in the deep end of the pool or get a complete change of type of work performed.
That's when they reach the next stage of realizing they don't know so much.
Good luck reaching your next stage.

By all means take your master test once you qualify.
I believe TX has a pass rate set in the low teens.
Yet you wrote you wanted the test to be harder.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

JasonCo said:


> It's a discussion about different view points, not a "I know it all" and lets **** on the "I know it all" kid because of course he thinks he knows it all. If you want to throw out insults, that's fine. I'd rather read people who want to insult that back up their insults with facts as to why you disagree. Rather than to say I'm just a 4 year apprentice... What does he know. That's nice, but the insults have no meaning if you can't back them up.
> 
> I'll leave it at this. In 2017, median household net worth improved across all platforms, up 16% overall since 2014 but those on the higher end of the income spectrum did the best. The top 10% of earners saw their household net worth increase 40% over the three-year period. So the economic divide between CEO's and employees has consistently gotten worse and worse. Here's another way of looking at it... The top 1% NOW (2018) holds 38.6% of the nation's wealth, up from 33.7% in 2007. The bottom 90% now holds only 22.8% of the nation's total wealth, down from 28.5% in 2007.
> 
> Also, I agree 100% with you tmessner, that owners should be rewarded when they take risk. No risk, no reward. 100% agree with that. It's hard to have drive to succeed and become a business man if there is no reward. That's what the American dream is all about. My argument is the extent of greed the CEO's are willing to take. You can tell me I need an attitude adjustment, if that makes you feel better. But it is almost none debatable lol, the facts are out there Helmut.


You are young, ignorant and opinionated, I'll grant you that.

1) You are ranting about income inequality... which is basically a Socialist argument. What is driving it is LEVERAGE in the financial markets. Restated, the ability to borrow in an era of artificially suppressed interest rates.

It has nothing to do with anything else. When interest rates are normalized, a staggering fraction of the top boys are going straight into bankruptcy court.

2) Leverage makes the plungers look fantastic on the way up. Not so smart on the way down. 

Stop worrying about the BS you're reading at ZeroHedge and other bizarro publications... on the web or otherwise.

At four years into your apprenticeship you're about six years away from being able to launch a business -- if you've got much of a brain at all.

What blows up a new business: one minor fault. That's all that it takes.

One would be well advised to sit through Hamlet (1948) one more time.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

active1 said:


> In the trades there's a point when some apprentices think they have it all figured out.
> That's where JasonCo is at now.
> 
> Eventually they'll be thrown in the deep end of the pool or get a complete change of type of work performed.
> ...


The Texas masters is not much harder than the journeyman test in my opinion. I don't know if it's been harder in the past, or when you took yours.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

60k/yr doing side work


:no::no::no::no::no:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

CTshockhazard said:


> 60k/yr doing side work
> 
> 
> :no::no::no::no::no:


yeah...I it's not adding up , is it?
"Jason" errrr states everyone is low balling
but yet he knows one guy making 60k on side work
.....in "Texas" errrr:vs_laugh:


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

active1 said:


> In the trades there's a point when some apprentices think they have it all figured out.


Why do you think I have it all figured out? I'm stating real facts from the most reputable sources that exist, how does that make me ignorant? This has nothing to do with me thinking I'm smart or not. I just wish instead of constantly resorting back to "he thinks he knows it all", "oh what a smart ass"... Would of been nice to just have a healthy discussion over the topic. You don't see me berating any of you, haven't done it one time.

All I have been stating are simple things.. CEOs sometimes take advantage of employees. Sometimes the only way to get a raise is to threaten to leave. Am I wrong? I talk about how here in Houston, I think the 3rd largest city in America? The fastest growing city in America.. Here the competition is pretty tough. That some contractors are resorting to cutting profit margins in order to win a bid. Am I wrong? I'm just stating basic observations and actual statistics that can't really be argued. I wish I knew the benefit in berating someone trying to just discuss a topic lol. 

I don't know it all, I only know maybe 5% of this trade. No one here knows it all, I see no point in trying to point that out to me?

To telsa's point. The relationship between growth and income inequality is more complex than just fake interest rates and leverage. There are multiple driving forces behind the divide. Here in Houston, like I said one of the fastest growing cities on earth. There has been a gradual shift away from agriculture and into the suburbs of Houston, this has been an ongoing problem for the last century. In 1870, almost 50 percent of the US population was employed in agriculture. As of 2008, less than 2 percent of the population is directly employed in agriculture. 

As people moved from farmland into cities like Houston, from agriculture into industry, they MOVED from a low productivity areas to one of higher productivity. This heightened income disparities between the two regions. Income has always been more equal in agriculture, but as people moved to the cities, this meant the share of the population where income was more unequal INCREASED.

Also the concentration of savings in the upper-income groups are steadily increasing. The vast majority of the top 5% are over the age of 60. They actually take up 2/3 of total savings in the US. This is also a driving factor.

Another huge driving force is the technology boom. The amount of people willing to learn these new technologies and new machinery or read instruction manuals; The vast majority of them could demand much higher wages, and this sort of helps aid the widening of income disparities. With the amount of video games kids are playing now-a-days, instead of having the patience to learn a new trade, like the electrical trade... It's only making the problem worse when it comes to financial equality. 

There are dozens of reasons... I'm stopping so this doesn't turn into a 10 page essay. Again I want to state that I don't know it all, I'm just trying to have a healthy discussion lol. I don't see the benefit in just ridiculing me and calling me a know it all... Just because I'm 4 years into the trade doesn't deem me incapable of at least talking about these sort of things.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

This thread has gone off the rails.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

Amen to that


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Nice troll thread.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

most definitely


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

JasonCo said:


> I'll leave it at this. In 2017, median household net worth improved across all platforms, up 16% overall since 2014 but those on the higher end of the income spectrum did the best. The top 10% of earners saw their household net worth increase 40% over the three-year period. So the economic divide between CEO's and employees has consistently gotten worse and worse. Here's another way of looking at it... The top 1% NOW (2018) holds 38.6% of the nation's wealth, up from 33.7% in 2007. The bottom 90% now holds only 22.8% of the nation's total wealth, down from 28.5% in 2007.


I thought this thread was about electrical contracting and side jobs?

I hope you honestly don't think that EC's are in the 1%. There are no CEO's in electrical contracting. In my city there are a hand full of big companies (more than 100 employees) where the owner is doing well, nice cars, cottages etc but in no way are they in the 1%. It's not comparable.


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## JasonCo (Mar 23, 2015)

You're right, its way off topic now. It's best to close it. Thanks for all the responses to my original question. Appreciate your time and help.


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