# NEMA 12 Enclosure



## bill39

NEMA-12 is usually referred to as drip proof. Ask Saginaw if they sell a drip shield for that enclosure. It's just a small metal bar that would install across the top lip/door. It function is to do exactly what the name implies....to keep the rain from dripping into the enclosure across the gasketed opening.

I suppose it would also keep a sleet buildup from getting into the enclosure.

NEMA-4 is the next step up. The only difference is that it has a couple of more clamps. I'd still use a drip shield on it too.

Don't confuse NEMA-4 with NEMA-4X. 4X is stainless steel and costs much, much more.


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## sbrn33

I have installed thousands of NEMA 12 outdoors. Now I read that it is an indoor enclosure. I am going to hell.


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## Majewski

sbrn33 said:


> I have installed thousands of NEMA 12 outdoors. Now I read that it is an indoor enclosure. I am going to hell.


Wanna carpool?


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## micromind

sbrn33 said:


> I have installed thousands of NEMA 12 outdoors. Now I read that it is an indoor enclosure. I am going to hell.


NEMA 12 has been the standard for outdoor installations around here for longer than I can remember. 

Like a lot of us, I have installed tons of NEMA 12 outdoors.


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## Jlarson

micromind said:


> Like a lot of us, I have installed tons of NEMA 12 outdoors.


Yep.


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## matt1124

Had to google that. Always called it a Weigmann box, never learned the name, saw that on a sticker inside and went with it. I've only put in a few but you'll have to stop at my place in the carpool, put 'em outside too.


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## sbrn33

Majewski said:


> Wanna carpool?


I would be in for that. I would go with hax but he never wants to pick up any slutty chicks. He always says "no way I am a mans man".


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## triden

micromind said:


> NEMA 12 has been the standard for outdoor installations around here for longer than I can remember.
> 
> Like a lot of us, I have installed tons of NEMA 12 outdoors.


But has it ever rained in Nevada? :jester:

Around here, outdoor is always minimum NEMA 3R. NEMA 4 or 4X are next depending on application.


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## micromind

triden said:


> But has it ever rained in Nevada? :jester:
> 
> Around here, outdoor is always minimum NEMA 3R. NEMA 4 or 4X are next depending on application.


Lol.... we usually get about 5" of rain a year, most of it is snow which melts later on in the day. 

There's NEMA 1 stuff that's been outside for years and is still holding up. I've seen Bulldog and a few of the others of that era outside, still in good shape.


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## MechanicalDVR

triden said:


> Around here, outdoor is always minimum NEMA 3R. NEMA 4 or 4X are next depending on application.


Sounds like the US eastern seaboard.


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## telsa

sbrn33 said:


> I would be in for that. I would go with hax but he never wants to pick up any slutty chicks.
> 
> He always says, "no way, I am a man's man".


Now be nice.


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## triden

micromind said:


> Lol.... we usually get about 5" of rain a year, most of it is snow which melts later on in the day.
> 
> There's NEMA 1 stuff that's been outside for years and is still holding up. I've seen Bulldog and a few of the others of that era outside, still in good shape.


I would have thought that Nevada would be a dusty place and a Type 1 panel would be full after a few years? My town is an arid area and we get about 10" per year (just checked wikipedia). I think the 3R is more for the snow and ice buildup that can occur on equipment.


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## Southeast Power

Our MCCs are NEMA 12 but I think the type for outdoor has an overhang piece above the door.
FWIW, it seems like it would keep cleaner inside than any NEMA3R loadcenter.


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## triden

Suncoast Power said:


> Our MCCs are NEMA 12 but I think the type for outdoor has an overhang piece above the door.
> FWIW, it seems like it would keep cleaner inside than any NEMA3R loadcenter.


NEMA 12 is designed for indoor, NEMA 3 is weather resistant for outdoor. I think you're talking about the optional drip edge you can put on top of the MCC.


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## micromind

triden said:


> I would have thought that Nevada would be a dusty place and a Type 1 panel would be full after a few years? My town is an arid area and we get about 10" per year (just checked wikipedia). I think the 3R is more for the snow and ice buildup that can occur on equipment.


There is a TON of dust around here but it doesn't build up too badly in stuff. There's always a layer on the bottom of anything installed outdoors but it's not very deep. 

NEMA 12 seems to keep the dust out more than 3R.


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## Switched

Majewski said:


> Wanna carpool?


Based upon this crowd.... we're gonna need a bus...


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## MechanicalDVR

Switched said:


> Based upon this crowd.... we're gonna need a bus...


I'll be standing there waving good bye to y'all!


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## triden

micromind said:


> There is a TON of dust around here but it doesn't build up too badly in stuff. There's always a layer on the bottom of anything installed outdoors but it's not very deep.
> 
> NEMA 12 seems to keep the dust out more than 3R.


It's funny you say that: "3R same As 3, but omits protection against windblown dust" :whistling2:


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## micromind

triden said:


> It's funny you say that: "3R same As 3, but omits protection against windblown dust" :whistling2:


Lol.....


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## Southeast Power

triden said:


> NEMA 12 is designed for indoor, NEMA 3 is weather resistant for outdoor. I think you're talking about the optional drip edge you can put on top of the MCC.


I just looked at the door and the handle for sure isn't made for outdoor.
All of the buttons are typical Allen Bradley but no rubber over the push buttons.


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## bill39

You can order NEMA-4 buttons with or without boots.

I think (emphasis on think) the boots are recommended if there are going to be icy conditions, among maybe other things.


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## Southeast Power

bill39 said:


> You can order NEMA-4 buttons with or without boots.
> 
> I think (emphasis on think) the boots are recommended if there are going to be icy conditions, among maybe other things.


No that you mentioned that. I had a recent inspection where we relocated a control station and it was moved closer to an outside area.
We opened the control station box and looked at the back ot the buttons and it seemed to me like they were oil-tite and he accepted that as OK for outdoor.

BTW, no ice to be concerned with here.


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## micromind

You can get boots for 30.5MM (full size) A/B buttons, they just screw on in place of the locknuts.


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## John Valdes

Heres the specs for NEMA enclosures.

https://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/nema-enclosure-types.pdf


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## JRaef

vinnygalbo said:


> Is there any time that a NEMA 12 enclosure can be used outside? I know its an indoor enclosure, but the prints are calling for it and its outside in a ball field. It clearly calls for a Saginaw NEMA 12 enclosure. Just wondering if I am missing something.
> 
> http://www.clrwtr.com/PDF/Saginaw/Saginaw-Stainless-Steel-Enclosur


Hmmm...
Why is it that EVERY one of your posts, no matter what the subject, or even the forum, has a link to the same vendor website, and you have NEVER posted anything that doesn't involve a "question" about a product that they sell?

Hmmmm.... inquiring minds want to know....


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## MechanicalDVR

JRaef said:


> Hmmm...
> Why is it that EVERY one of your posts, no matter what the subject, or even the forum, has a link to the same vendor website, and you have NEVER posted anything that doesn't involve a "question" about a product that they sell?
> 
> Hmmmm.... inquiring minds want to know....


Paid for advertising?


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## JRaef

Or getting paid for click throughs?


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## MechanicalDVR

JRaef said:


> Or getting paid for click throughs?


So many scams of all kinds out there.


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## sbrn33

I am still thinking about turning myself in fr putting in a thousand NEMA 12's outdoors. Tomorrow I am going to go around and take pic's of everyone of them to make sure they are still safe.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> I am still thinking about turning myself in fr putting in a thousand NEMA 12's outdoors. Tomorrow I am going to go around and take pic's of everyone of them to make sure they are still safe.


Do you put initials inside every panel and box you install?


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## sbrn33

MechanicalDVR said:


> Do you put initials inside every panel and box you install?


I have an awesome memory.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> I have an awesome memory.


I used to have one.


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## 99cents

I would just install the right box to begin with. Red stickers suck.


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## JRaef

sbrn33 said:


> I am still thinking about turning myself in fr putting in a thousand NEMA 12's outdoors. Tomorrow I am going to go around and take pic's of everyone of them to make sure they are still safe.


Years ago, even venerable suppliers like Hoffman used to say you could add a "Drip Shield kit" to make a NEMA 12 into a NEMA 3R. There used to also be a difference in the enclosure painting spec in that Type 12 didn't require the salt spray test that is part of 3R, but enclosure painting technology has changed (epoxy powder coating on virtually everything now) to where that's no longer an issue.

What changed is that when UL took over doing the 3rd party testing of the old NEMA ratings, the test standard for 3R required two things that made this invalid now: The end user was responsible for mounting the drip shield and drilling the weep hole (3R requires that moisture will not accumulate inside to where it contacts live parts, so you need a drip hole to let it out, which would violate Type 12). UL never allows a rating of a product to be dependent upon the actions of the user. But if that's what you did, I don't see a need to turn yourself in, unless maybe you hid some body parts in the boxes.


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## BrettC

MechanicalDVR said:


> Do you put initials inside every panel and box you install?


We were going through the start up checklist for one of our lines and I noticed that one of the cabinets housing VFDs was a "Signature Series" with a little plaque with names on it from the supplier or contractor or whoever


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## MechanicalDVR

BrettC said:


> We were going through the start up checklist for one of our lines and I noticed that one of the cabinets housing VFDs was a "Signature Series" with a little plaque with names on it from the supplier or contractor or whoever


Every piece of equipment I've started up or commissioned going back a long time I initialed and dated. 

ie: MAC SU 28 Mar 0000

Take enough pride in your work to sign it.


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## BrettC

MechanicalDVR said:


> Every piece of equipment I've started up or commissioned going back a long time I initialed and dated.
> 
> ie: MAC SU 28 Mar 0000
> 
> Take enough pride in your work to sign it.


Next time I'm down there I'll take a picture if I can, it was pretty elaborate. It reminded me of how you see consumer sports equipment branded and I had never seen or heard of that before


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## sbrn33

Do they make a 3R with a back plate?


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> Do they make a 3R with a back plate?


Several brands do.


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## sbrn33

MechanicalDVR said:


> Several brands do.


And a hinged cover?


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> And a hinged cover?


You mean like this one from Milbank?


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## sbrn33

MechanicalDVR said:


> You mean like this one from Milbank?


Nice, I like it. 
Truth be told I will still use nema 12 outside because that is what will be in stock.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> Nice, I like it.
> Truth be told I will still use nema 12 outside because that is what will be in stock.


Fully understandable.


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## BrettC

BrettC said:


> ...I noticed that one of the cabinets housing VFDs was a "Signature Series"...





MechanicalDVR said:


> Every piece of equipment I've started up or commissioned going back a long time I initialed and dated.


The drive the cabinet housed is an old GE DC 300. I asked one of the engineers what that was all about and apparently in the early 90s GE was attempting to add a little personalized branding to their industrial equipment so you started to see "signature" product lines and names on inspection stickers instead of numbers or facilities. Fancy! Also kind of funny.


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## MechanicalDVR

BrettC said:


> The drive the cabinet housed is an old GE DC 300. I asked one of the engineers what that was all about and apparently in the early 90s GE was attempting to add a little personalized branding to their industrial equipment so you started to see "signature" product lines and names on inspection stickers instead of numbers or facilities. Fancy! Also kind of funny.


GE took over RCA in 1986 and RCA was a very family run business for as large as it was. Names on QC stickers was the norm with them. Maybe some of the top guys they kept on started the trend at GE.


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