# Parking lot pole light LED or induction conversion... help?



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Went to an apartment complex today that has a handful of parking lot pole lights. They are roughly 20 foot poles, shoebox style lights, 250W HPS, 120 volts. They want to see what it will take to get brighter light at night without having to run new wires. The half-dozen 250W HPS lights leave something to be desired apparently.

I told them that simply putting in higher wattage pole heads probably wouldn't work because the circuits were installed to only handle the 250 watt lights. It might be possible depending on how many circuits they ran but that's kind of plan B. They don't like the orange light and long warm-up times either, nor the maintenance cost to replace lamps & ballasts. I suggested that they might be interested in LED or induction lighting. I went up in the lift to check out the fixtures up close. The problem, it turns out, is that unlike most of the shoebox heads I usually see that are bolted on to the pole, these ones are welded on. The pole, the support arm, and the fixture head are all one great big welded-together piece of metal. Removing the heads and slapping a new one on there wouldn't be very easy.

So I told them I would get the info off of the fixture and see if there is some sort of retrofit kit available for them. I googled it to no avail so, here I am.

The sticker in the fixture said it's a "Lighting Systems, Inc." model number HEF-250HPS-120. Does anyone know of a good retrofit system that might work for these?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Could you change it to 240 volt and install some 400 PSMH???


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Could you change it to 240 volt and install some 400 PSMH???


Possibly; I would have to dig around in the circuitry a bit to figure that out. I saw a couple of 120 volt receptacles attached to some of the poles so they might be tapping off of the lighting circuit for those. Wouldn't want to hook it up to 240 in that case :laughing:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

How about a gizmo like one of these:










They're pretty expensive, like several hundred dollars each, but would they just go and fail in a year or two? If I stick an LED kit or something in these I'll put surge protection in the panel, or even at point-of-use if I can find an appropriate product.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

erics37 said:


> How about a gizmo like one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Before I did that I would just price some LED shoebox fixtures. $500 to $600 apiece.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Before I did that I would just price some LED shoebox fixtures. $500 to $600 apiece.


Yeah that's the problem; I would love to take down the existing shoeboxes and slap up some new ones, but as I mentioned originally, the existing shoeboxes are welded to the pole. I can't just unbolt them.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Phillips makes a conversion bulb(lamp) for HPS that puts out a nice white light. Maybe that is the ticket.
For some reason I just don't trust that LED lamp light output.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

I"d retrofit in an induction externally ballasted setup. If they have money to burn then maybe some LED retrofit kits. IMO i'd go 120 watt induction. About $250 per light plus labor


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Dang! Prices are dropping. About $150 for this one 

http://www.shineretrofits.com/120-w...t-120v-220v-277v-ballast-5-year-warranty.html


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Phillips makes a conversion bulb(lamp) for HPS that puts out a nice white light. Maybe that is the ticket.
> For some reason I just don't trust that LED lamp light output.


Hmm, that's an interesting product! I'll definitely make a mental note of that one. However I'm still stuck with the issue of light level. Replacing a 250 watt orange light with a 250 watt white light might help a little bit, but I really need to get more light in there.

I'm similarly skeptical of the LED light output; no matter what the conversion charts say, they always seem less bright.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

A 200 watt induction shoebox would be perfect! But alas, I can't take the existing shoebox heads off


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

retrofit them. I think you can mout that ballast on top if you need to.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

How/where do I find a retrofit kit for this particular make & model of fixture?


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Time to change the poles out.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

mbednarik said:


> Time to change the poles out.


That would be the ideal way to go, but they don't want to spend that kind of money. That's a pretty common theme around here.

Furthermore it is a matter of curiosity and self-improvement to me to see if I can find a suitable product that will retrofit into these fixtures.


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## delaware74b (Jan 29, 2012)

The Philips conversion lamps are about $45 per lamp at the SH. The lamps are position-specific. 250w and 400w. Drop-in installation, just change the bulb. Expect 10,000 hours despite what Philips claims at 15,000 hours.

My company converted a shopping center parking lot about 3 years ago from HPS to the MH conversion lamps. Equal number of the 250 and 400 horizontal burn lamps and we are starting to replace all of the first batch of lamps. The owner is happy with them despite the cost and shorter life span, cheaper than replacing or converting all the heads to PSMH.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

You cant just change out the lamp, the reflector should also be changed to a more reflective metal.
We are in the process of slowly changing out 175 watt MH with 100 watt induction retro fit kits that are custom made by Dnkldorf
IF you PM Dnkldorf he can probably help you out


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Would could try some RAB 78 watt area lights. Like this.

http://www.rabweb.com/productLine.php?productLine=LPOLE78


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## shineretrofits (Oct 28, 2010)

Hey guys,

I was searching induction pole lights on Google and this thread actually came up 4th-5th when searched and I saw our product on here. Not trying to sell anything (you can't anyway on here) but it seems people are looking for solutions.

I would still have a few questions such as 1. How much brighter do they want it? 2. Do they have a budget or max amount to spend in mind? and 3. How much room is there in the existing fixture? I tried to find the spec sheet for that model # online but nothing came up.

For the cost definitely induction first since it's usually half the price or less than LED, and they come in round/doughnut style, rectangle, or globe style like a giant lightbulb. 100W induction would be the rough equivalent to the 250W HPS, so 120W would be a 20% increase in light, the 150W a 50% increase in light, and so forth. Often though if those don't fit LED would be the only option, or new poles and fixtures like someone said above if no retrofit works. Hope this helps somewhat.


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## gmihok (Apr 29, 2013)

*LED Retrofit*

Check out Global Tech LED:

http://www.globaltechled.com/

They make a DLC approved kit with a smart driver.


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## WestyLightBulb (Apr 9, 2012)

induction lighting can do a real good job lighting the parking lots when done right, just make sure to get a model that is bright enough. Induction has advantages over LED including much lower glare.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

I realize this is an old thread I missed out on, but this is a pretty awesome product to consider:

http://www.venturelighting.com/Literature/RIO_AVAILABLE_4pgr_VLI-1103B2-0713_v30.pdf


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> I realize this is an old thread I missed out on, but this is a pretty awesome product to consider:
> 
> http://www.venturelighting.com/Literature/RIO_AVAILABLE_4pgr_VLI-1103B2-0713_v30.pdf


That's interesting. I've got a gas station that has 100 watt HPS recessed lights in the soffit for sidewalk lighting. We're starting to replace ballasts and the cost of the ballast probably would pay for a retrofit. I would imagine this company would have something for this application.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken, their products are well regarded. Home Depot uses their stuff nationwide I'm told.


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## Bobaker (Sep 15, 2013)

There is a new kit out there made by Advance/Phillips that has an electronic ballast and new bi pin socket and 350w lamp. I think it's between three and four hundred dollars but its super bright.. I changed out five as a sample test for a car dealership and they burn twice as bright as the previous MH that were in there and I think they were 400s... Check it out we got them from a company that makes or retrofit brackets


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