# Pole light base



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

At least 20'.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> At least 20'.


 That would be 8' deeper than the height of the pole.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> At least 20'.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

william1978 said:


> That would be 8' deeper than the height of the pole.


Damn thing wouldn't be going anywhere! :laughing:


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

You probably want to go at least beneath the frost line. Two feet and you're good.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Pole base depths are determined by regional variables, soil conditions and average wind speeds.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Damn thing wouldn't be going anywhere! :laughing:


 I know that is right. If I ever need to move it I will have to give 220/221 a call.:thumbsup:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> You probably want to go at least beneath the frost line. Two feet and you're good.


 Oh no not the dreaded frost line again. The frost line is about 6 to 12" here.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


> Pole base depths are determined by regional variables, soil conditions and average wind speeds.


 Does anyone know of a web site where you can punch in all of your info and it will tell you what you how deep and wide it needs to be?


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Just guess.

A standard 20 foot, 4" pole is generally speced at 6' deep and 30" high, 18 or 24" round.

Here, a 12' pole would be good with a 3 to 4' base if it were only up a bit above grade.

We used to direct bury 20' tall, 4" round galvanized poles 4' deep for tennis court lighting.

All the street light poles here are direct buried @ about 4'.


I just direct buried a 20', 4" pole in my yard for grandkid lights. I only went 36" deep. Pole was scrap (rusted base/fell over) and times are tough so I recycled it. 

It sat empty for months as I was waiting to be able to buy a couple of 1000W MH fixtures but little league season started up so I scrounged some *quartz lamps* :jester:and hardware from my warehouse and threw them in last weekend.



















And....the grass looks like hell because it's still half dormant. 
And the PVC is running along the block fence nowhere near 18". 
And the pool fence is copper. 
And the fence footing is apparently failing and the pier seems to be falling off. I thought I dug the heck out of those footings so I am a little pissed at myself.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Just guess.
> 
> A standard 20 foot, 4" pole is generally speced at 6' deep and 30" high, 18 or 24" round.
> 
> ...


 I knew you would chime in when I started talking about pole bases.:thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

220/221 said:


> .............
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So where are all the boxes buried? :whistling2::laughing:


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Does anyone know of a web site where you can punch in all of your info and it will tell you what you how deep and wide it needs to be?


Usually your AHJ has that information available.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> So where are all the boxes buried? :whistling2::laughing:


 Only Black4Truck knows.:laughing:


----------



## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I use an 18" sonotube cut in half so the pier is 18" wide and 24" deep.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> So where are all the boxes buried? :whistling2::laughing:


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> So where are all the boxes buried?


Wrong hack :jester:


If you don't yet have the pole, the best value is to go to a fence supply and get a round schedule 40 glavanized pole appx 18', pipe wrap the bottom and bury it 3' deep. I think the 1 7/8" diameter will accept most light mounts. Maybe it's 2 7/8"


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

One quick phonecall is all it takes to your pole light manufacturer to get a detail print on the pole foundation faxed to you, specific to your geographic area. Some AHJ's will want this print sealed by a local engineer, or one that is re-drawn with that local engineer's title block sealed and submitted for permitting.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> Only Black4Truck knows.:laughing:


Anyone with his treasure map knows also!:whistling2::laughing:


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

We just did 7 25' lights. The anchor bolt pattern had all the specs on it. Ours has to be 5' deep and 2' wide. These poles where going to mount at grade.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

This is a pole that was taken down and the achor bolts came off of another job so it is sorta like that Johnny Cash song. One oiece at a time or something like that.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> This is a pole that was taken down and the achor bolts came off of another job so it is sorta like that Johnny Cash song. One oiece at a time or something like that.


Just a question....You getting an inspection on this????????:jester::no::laughing:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Just a question....You getting an inspection on this????????:jester::no::laughing:


 Absolutely is there any other way? Now if you are talking about a permit.:no::laughing:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> Absolutely is there any other way? Now if you are talking about a permit.:no::laughing:


 
Let me guess you got some old stickers left from the days you spent on the dark side and after your self inspection of your work you will then pop one on the pole "PASS" !!! :yes::laughing:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Let me guess you got some old stickers left from the days you spent on the dark side and after your self inspection of your work you will then pop one on the pole "PASS" !!! :yes::laughing:


 :yes::yes::laughing:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> :whistling2:


 
Wonder what you know who (jw)would think if he had that little piece of info?
I can see it now here is your stop work order!!!:laughing:
But I have a pass sticker on the pole!:whistling2:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Wonder what you know who (jw)would think if he had that little piece of info?
> I can see it now here is your stop work order!!!:laughing:
> But I have a pass sticker on the pole!:whistling2:


 I don't live in Mecklenburg County so the stop work order would mean nothing.:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

william1978 said:


> This is a pole that was taken down and the achor bolts came off of another job so it is sorta like that Johnny Cash song. One oiece at a time or something like that.


If your not going be there when pouring the concrete, you need to make a pattern for the bolts. This can make or break a job.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Here's some direct buried sched 40 galv poles @ about 10' above grade.

Primer and pipe wrap

































I accidentally put the jboxes too high. Now any clown off the street knows where to find them.










For short poles,direct bury is the way to go. You can hand dig the hole and it's two/three bags of concrete instead of a yard.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Oh no not the dreaded frost line again. The frost line is about 6 to 12" here.


Better check that ruler.. sounds like the first (3) inches might be missing


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Here's some direct buried sched 40 galv poles @ about 10' above grade.


You should read 410.15(B), those poles should not pass inspection. You really do fly by the seat of your pants. :laughing:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> You should read 410.15(B), those poles should not pass inspection. You really do fly by the seat of your pants


Always have. Probably always will.

I don't know the section. Quote it for me.

I'm guessing that you're _not really sure_ if the poles should not have passed inspection.:whistling2:

Remember, don't assuming things.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Always have. Probably always will.
> 
> I don't know the section. Quote it for me.
> 
> ...


Might be my book, but 410.15 is hidden or not there


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I don't know the section. Quote it for me.


To long to type.

But basiclly the poles need a hand hole in them and a grounding terminal at that hand hole.

There are exceptions depending on height and wiring methods but I do not see any that fit your application.




Voltech said:


> Might be my book, but 410.15 is hidden or not there


410.15(B) is the location in the 2005 NEC, not sure where it was moved in the 2008 but it is still in 410.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Voltech said:


> Might be my book, but 410.15 is hidden or not there



It is your book. You're looking in the 2008.

Try the 2005.:whistling2:


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

bob badger said:


> to long to type.
> 
> But basiclly the poles need a hand hole in them and a grounding terminal at that hand hole.
> 
> ...


410.30....


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Would this be an exception?

It's UF in FNMC which is rated for use underground.











I fly by the seat of my pants because that's how I am. It's how I've almost always earned a living. It has been a rare occaision where someone took me aside and actaully taught me something.

I get up most every day of my life knowing that today, I will probably have to figure out how the hell I'm going to make something work so I can generate revenue and help my business prosper....or at this point, survive.


You on the other hand wake your candy ass up, have a donut and the boss tells you where to go and what to do. 

Point out any violation you want and I will learn from it but I'm tired of your judgmental fat ass giving me sh!t.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

480sparky said:


> It is your book. You're looking in the 2008.
> 
> Try the 2005.:whistling2:



Like I tell my boss, see I was still right:thumbup:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Voltech said:


> 410.30....


Thanks, I leave my 2008 in my office and I am far to cheep to buy two. :jester:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Thanks, I leave my 2008 in my office and I am far to cheep to buy two. :jester:


At least get the 2008 as a PDF.............:thumbsup:


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

480sparky said:


> At least get the 2008 as a PDF.............:thumbsup:


I need a good PDF for 05


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Would this be an exception?


Not at 10' AFF





> I fly by the seat of my pants because that's how I am. It's how I've almost always earned a living. It has been a rare occaision where someone took me aside and actaully taught me something.
> 
> 
> I get up most every day of my life knowing that today, I will probably have to figure out how the hell I'm going to make something work so I can generate revenue and help my business prosper....or at this point, survive.


I don't own a company, never will. I still have to deal with keeping guys busy, making quotes, winning bids while complying with the NEC, the corporate safety officer, the corporate lawyer, a 1/2 dozen PMs that need things done at the drop of a hat, and a bunch of clients that all needed service within a few hours of calling at any time day or night.

You think I drove 8 hours south to survey a bunch of jobs for fun? 

So you can stop acting like you are the only one with pressures.





> You on the other hand wake your candy ass up, have a donut and the boss tells you where to go and what to do.
> 
> Point out any violation you want and I will learn from it but I'm tired of your judgmental fat ass giving me sh!t.


I love you too. :thumbsup:


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Jeez, what happened to the lovefest?

Oh nevermind, wrong thread.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Thanks, I leave my 2008 in my office and I am far to cheep to buy two. :jester:


I was going to PM you a link, but it looks like you disabled PMs

~Matt


----------



## 208 Volt Sparky (Apr 16, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Not at 10' AFF
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Oh look... a troll


~Matt


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

A troll with no desire to hide the fact.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Yeah, "Hertz Electric", et al. He's outta here...

Carry on.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, "Hertz Electric", et al. He's outta here...
> 
> Carry on.


Excellent :thumbup:

~Matt


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> So you can stop acting like you are the only one with pressures.


I don't have any pressures. I'm far too laid back for stress. I'm just trying to explain what it's like when there is no one there to take care of you.

I think the install is compliant becasue it's conduit all the way and it's cable. I don't keep a code book at home or I'd look it up.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

What does the NEC say about running a race way up the lamp fixture? Most of whats in 450.15 (or what have seen) is about using the pole as the race way. Or is there a difference.

220/221, does would light fixture have to be disconnected wire and all from the pole to be inspected?


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I don't have any pressures. I'm far too laid back for stress. I'm just trying to explain what it's like when there is no one there to take care of you.



Yeah I do not even have to produce and I get paid. 




> I think the install is compliant becasue it's conduit all the way and it's cable. I don't keep a code book at home or I'd look it up.


If it was 8' or less above grade what you have would be compliant. (Like a typical post lamp on someones yard.)

You could also get away without the hand hole in the pole up to 20' above grade if the pole had a hinged base.

As far as the conduit ...... what kind of conduit, how is it supported?


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Voltech said:


> What does the NEC say about running a race way up the lamp fixture? Most of whats in 450.15 (or what have seen) is about using the pole as the race way.


How would you secure and support the raceway as required?


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> How would you secure and support the raceway as required?


I got ya :thumbsup:

But I could use


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> How would you secure and support the raceway as required?


Honestly, if it's inside a pole, I don't think it's going anywhere. It must be secure.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Honestly, if it's inside a pole, I don't think it's going anywhere. It must be secure.


Honestly, I agree from a commonsense point of view.

If I read the words in the NEC I might say supported but not secured.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Honestly, I agree from a commonsense point of view.
> 
> If I read the words in the NEC I might say supported but not secured.


Its better than 3 #12 hanging in a 4" pole.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Voltech said:


> If your not going be there when pouring the concrete, you need to make a pattern for the bolts. This can make or break a job.


 I plan on doing all of it from digging the hole to cutting on the switch.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I plan on doing all of it from digging the hole to cutting on the switch.


Glutton for punishment? I hate concrete work. I think my finished product is often better than the guys who do it for a living, but I just don't care for it. I'll make them plywood templates for the bolt pattern, provide them with a copy of the foundation spec, and move on to something more interesting for a while. I'll pour and finish the odd housekeeping pad or generator pad, but that's about it. If there's already a flatwork guy on the site (or soon will be), I'll normally try to figure out a way to get them to do it.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, "Hertz Electric", et al. He's outta here...
> 
> Carry on.


 Thanks Marc.:thumbsup:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Glutton for punishment? I hate concrete work. I think my finished product is often better than the guys who do it for a living, but I just don't care for it. I'll make them plywood templates for the bolt pattern, provide them with a copy of the foundation spec, and move on to something more interesting for a while. I'll pour and finish the odd housekeeping pad or generator pad, but that's about it. If there's already a flatwork guy on the site (or soon will be), I'll normally try to figure out a way to get them to do it.


 Yea, me too, but this is at the house and there is only one. After I'm done with it I will probably be saying I wished I listened to Marc.:whistling2:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> Thanks Marc.:thumbsup:


 
How many names did this one have?


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> How many names did this one have?


 That is MDShunk first name.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> How many names did this one have?


I don't know. Eventually they'll get a job, move out of Mom's basement, find an ugly woman that gives good head, and get bored with trolling this site.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> That is MDShunk first name.


 
I know that

I was talking about the *****


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I don't know. Eventually they'll get a job, move out of Mom's basement, find an ugly woman that gives good head, and get bored with trolling this site.


 

:laughing:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> I know that
> 
> I was talking about the *****


 My bad.:laughing:


----------

