# Old house rewire???



## 480sparky

In no case would I ever consider giving a fixed price. There's too many variables and possibilities.

Give them a T&M quote, possibly with a Not To Exceed limit. You will work T&M up to that price, and if you're not done, you either walk away or negotiate for more work.


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## jwjrw

william1978 said:


> I was asked yesturday about rewiring a 1,000 sq. ft. house with plaster and they are wanting all the old wiring removed and are wanting me to rewire everything. My question is how do you all charge for this type of job? I can beat holes in the plaster where ever I need to is what I was told to get the boxs where I need to and to drill holes as needed. Just some suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance.:thumbsup:


The last one I did everything was pulled from crawl...I cut all metal boxes out used smartboxes and left lighting circuit how they were. They didnt want to tear up plaster and I priced it by the hour. There is no telling what you will run into and I would be leary or giving a solid price... Just me:whistling2:


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## NolaTigaBait

480sparky said:


> In no case would I ever consider giving a fixed price. There's too many variables and possibilities.
> 
> Give them a T&M quote, possibly with a Not To Exceed limit. You will work T&M up to that price, and if you're not done, you either walk away or negotiate for more work.


That's what I did. Way too many variables. There's probably no insulation in the walls, which should make it easier to do.


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## chenley

Last one I did I came from above for most of the outlets, due to the crawlspace being inaccessible to most parts of the house from HVAC being installed. 

House was built with sawmill lumber (actual 2x4's) and they had horizontal pieces running halfway down the wall. Broke two whip bits on that one. Mainly just did the kitchen, laundry, and den since those locations where all on one breaker. Wired those locations up to 08 code.

Have a full renovation in the rear of that house coming up this spring/summer.


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## 480sparky

NolaTigaBait said:


> That's what I did. Way too many variables. There's probably no insulation in the walls, which should make it easier to do.


The reason there's no insulation is so they could install fire blocks.


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## jwjrw

480sparky said:


> The reason there's no insulation is so they could install fire blocks.


You mean the perline between studs? And diagional perlines also....
Hate remodels with rock/plaster on the walls !


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## NolaTigaBait

480sparky said:


> The reason there's no insulation is so they could install fire blocks.


Most of the house here, the old ones anyways, don't have the fireblocks. They just have a 8 or 10 foot void from the bottom to top. The new houses almost all have the damn fireblocks.


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## NolaTigaBait

> And diagional perlines also....


Those are the ones in the corners of the house. After Katrina, I really got to see how alot of houses were constructed.


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## 480sparky

NolaTigaBait said:


> Most of the house here, the old ones anyways, don't have the fireblocks. They just have a 8 or 10 foot void from the bottom to top. The new houses almost all have the damn fireblocks.


In all my years, I have never wired a new house with fireblocks. The only time I encounter them is in remodel work on older homes.


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## jwjrw

480sparky said:


> In all my years, I have never wired a new house with fireblocks. The only time I encounter them is in remodel work on older homes.


 
Me too! But I wouldnt put it past the nail bangers!


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## NolaTigaBait

480sparky said:


> In all my years, I have never wired a new house with fireblocks. The only time I encounter them is in remodel work on older homes.


Really?....Crazy how different parts of the country do different things. Every new house here has them.


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## william1978

Lucky for me the house has a 1/2 to 3/4 basement in it and the rest has a crawl space of about 4'.


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## 480sparky

NolaTigaBait said:


> Really?....Crazy how different parts of the country do different things. Every new house here has them.


Maybe you have a local building code that requires them.

Maybe all your framers are stuck in the past..... doing things 'the old-fashioned way' and never thinking beyond that.

Point: Julia Child had a guest on her show on time, explaining how she cooked a Thanksgiving turkey. Just prior to putting the bird in the pan, she (the guest cook) took a knife and cut a chunk off the turkey. Julia asked why she did that, and she explained that's the way her mother always did it.

Well, it just so happened that her mother was in the audience, so during a commercial break, they asked her (the mother) why she did that. Her response: "It's something I learned from my mother. I don't know why she did it, but she always did."

So the two women, curious as to why Grandma would automatically cut a hunk of turkey off before putting in the pan, went to the nursing home to ask her.

She expained, "Well, when Frank and I got married back in 1935, we got a roasting pan as a wedding gift. Problem was, it wasn't big enough for the turkeys we raised, so I always had to cut a peice off to fit it into the pan."

Maybe framers in your area are related to these women.:whistling2:


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## NolaTigaBait

My guess is the local code.


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## Murphy

not insulation is good but you still never know what u will run into in these old walls. plaster and lath fall inside the wall and makes it impossible to fish sometimes. but considering they understand holes must be cut, dont kill yourself cut as many needed to get it done, if they dont like the idea of time and material charge a fairly high price.


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## BuzzKill

william1978 said:


> Lucky for me the house has a 1/2 to 3/4 basement in it and the rest has a crawl space of about 4'.


 how about attic space?
the ones with floor slates for walking make for more labor of course...
If t/m is a no go for them, take some time and study the place, top to bottom and give a price per outlet/switch.


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## nrp3

I did a dining room this week. 1890's house. No damage to walls, the ceiling was gone from a water leak. Two circuits, 5 receptacles, two three way switches, fan box overhead. All knob and tube removed, hacked nm to kt repaired, and a couple of small repairs = $1000.00 Probably closer to 1200.00, but they are good repeat customers and thats what I estimated. Lots of mess, Mike Rowe/Dirty Jobs crawlspace. Metal old works cut in and attached to the lathe and plaster.


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## william1978

BuzzKill said:


> how about attic space?
> the ones with floor slates for walking make for more labor of course...
> If t/m is a no go for them, take some time and study the place, top to bottom and give a price per outlet/switch.


 I haven't been in there yet. All of this is what I have been told by creditable sorce. Going to have to go and check it out real good like you say.


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## te12co2w

Those diagonal fire blocks or sway bracing are just the pits. I am rewiring my parents' house, and it has them. Every 3-6 months I load up and drive over there to do a little more.


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## robnj772

NolaTigaBait said:


> My guess is the local code.


 
Here it is walls over 8ft.I think it is in the fire code.


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## Magnettica

NolaTigaBait said:


> Those are the ones in the corners of the house. After Katrina, I really got to see how alot of houses were constructed.


Word up. That's the key to working in old houses. I worked in an old house the other day and their was no top plate for where I had to drill down for a wall switch. What had to have happened was that this wall was built after the ceiling was finished. Fortunately for me there was a wall sconce light fixture on this wall so I was able to tell where I needed to drill down. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky

Magnettica said:


> Word up. That's the key to working in old houses. I worked in an old house the other day and their was no top plate for where I had to drill down for a wall switch. What had to have happened was that this wall was built after the ceiling was finished. Fortunately for me there was a wall sconce light fixture on this wall so I was able to tell where I needed to drill down. :thumbsup:


 
It's called balloon framing. The walls are built as one, from top to bottom. Instead of the first floor being built, then the walls set on it, then the second floor (or attic) is built on top of that, the wall studs are full length from foundation to roof.

Platform framing (more common):









​Balloon Framing:​


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## Magnettica

480sparky said:


> It's called balloon framing. The walls are built as one, from top to bottom. Instead of the first floor being built, then the walls set on it, then the second floor (or attic) is built on top of that, the wall studs are full length from foundation to roof.
> 
> Platform framing (more common):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Balloon Framing:​



That's a good visual, but this was an interior wall, and non-load bearing. 

Believe me, this wall had to have been added later because how else do you squeeze the old plaster-like sheetrock between the ceiling joists and top plate? 

And how do you build a wall with studs 16" OC without a top plate? 

It was there I just couldn't see it. 

House was built in 1947. 

:sleep1:


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## 480sparky

Magnettica said:


> That's a good visual, but this was an interior wall, and non-load bearing.
> 
> Believe me, this wall had to have been added later because how else do you squeeze the old plaster-like sheetrock between the ceiling joists and top plate?
> 
> And how do you build a wall with studs 16" OC without a top plate?
> 
> It was there I just couldn't see it.
> 
> House was built in 1947.
> 
> :sleep1:


Maybe it used to be load bearing.... an addition removed the load.


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## MDShunk

I dunno. I had about a 5 or 6 year stretch where I did almost nothing besides rewire old houses and install services. Very darned seldom did I need to bash extra holes in walls, even during the "learning curve". Just takes some planning and studying the structure. Ylou will necessarily use way more wire than it would otherwise take to wire it if it was new construction. For instance, you can often kill a whole roll of 14/3 wiring up a set of 3-ways at the top and bottom of a stairway, because of the path you need to take to get from one switch to the other. 

My price seemed to nearly always work out to around 100-120 bucks a receptacle or switch gang if most or all of the house was being rewired, plus anything extra for the new service entrance equipment (if needed).


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## MDShunk

One trick is to take advantage of the fact that the interconnected smoke detectors can be placed in a certain zone near the top of the wall, as opposed to the ceiling. That can sometimes help you out, instead of making a hole that needs repaired.

USE SMART BOXES! (or the Arlington "One Box"). Don't bash big holes to use blue Carlons, and for heaven's sake, don't use the crappy boxes with wings. Take advantage of the new products and securely fix your box to a stud by using a Smart Box or One Box.


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## brokenankle

*just lost this one there highest bid was $4500*










*WORK TO BE PERFORMED AT:**1923 Wayne Street*
*Pittsburgh, PA 15218*

*Eve Ali*


*Below is a list of the work needed in this house, it is vacant and some rooms are gutted. There is an old fuse box, old knob and tube wiring, and the house is not grounded. Can you please give me an estimate, thank you. *
*100 Amp service completeNew service cable, whip, and meter socket on outside of houseInstall 20 circuit 100 amp murry breaker panel in basementUpdate all grounding to codeRe-wire basementInstall 8 keyless light fixtures and 1 switchInstall dedicated line for washerInstall 220 line for dryerInstall dedicated line for furnace1st Flr Re-wireKitchenInstall dedicated lines to all major appliances(refrigerator, microwarve, dishwasher, stove)Install small circuit GFI outlets on counter according to codeInstall switch and center ceiling fixtureDiningroomInstall 4 outlets, one 3way system and one light locationLivingroomInstall 4 outlets, one switch, one lightHallwayInstall 3 way system w/ light and one outlet2nd Flr Re-wireHallwayInstall 3 way system, 1 outlet, 1 lightAll bedroomsInstall 4 outlets, 1 switch, and 1 lightBathroomInstall GFI outlet, switch, and lightInstall hardwire smoke detectors through out, according to codeOutside1 switch and 1 light out each door, gfi front and backMotion detector on side and rearWire mold to be used in hard to reach locationsALL work will be inspected *
*I will supply the light fixtures. *


*my bid*
*Being a brick half duplex is hard to know if you have any with plaster on brick with no studs could mean a lot of wiremold. Rough estimate $8000 - $9000*


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## MDShunk

I knock on all the exterior walls to see if I'm dealing with any plaster on brick. You can almost always tell by knocking on the walls.


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## Mike Guile

*Old House*



william1978 said:


> I was asked yesturday about rewiring a 1,000 sq. ft. house with plaster and they are wanting all the old wiring removed and are wanting me to rewire everything. My question is how do you all charge for this type of job? I can beat holes in the plaster where ever I need to is what I was told to get the boxs where I need to and to drill holes as needed. Just some suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance.:thumbsup:





I came up with 11,900.00 from what you said. Along with getting all the new circuits your going to have to dig out every inch of old knob and tube which means major excavating. Unless you have a plaster specialist in your rear pocket, this will cost a fortune to patch the holes. Especially, if this is a total rewire. The inspector might make sure you do this. I was given a red tag for leaving a few ft here and there once. When they say remove ALL old wire...that means ALL! Something like that, it's better for the owner to just get some demo guys to knock out all the plaster, you come in and do your thing, then drywall. We added it up both ways on a few houses and it came up cheaper that way. I worked for a flipper on those jobs (never work for a flipper!) I lost my arse on the last total rewire in plaster job. If they had it all cleared out you could probably do the same job for 4-5k and make more profit. 

That's just my stinkin opinion though


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## 480sparky

Mike Guile said:


> .... your going to have to dig out every inch of old knob and tube which means major excavating. ........


Why?


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## Mike Guile

*?*

? Don't know. Don't tell me my inspector made me rip ALL old conductors out of house for nothing?? 

He said on a Total Rewire ALL old conductors MUST be removed. 

I hope this wasn't a pocketbook inspector?


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## 480sparky

Mike Guile said:


> ? Don't know. Don't tell me my inspector made me rip ALL old conductors out of house for nothing??
> 
> He said on a Total Rewire ALL old conductors MUST be removed.
> 
> I hope this wasn't a pocketbook inspector?


Yep. You got dinged with a Shirt Pocket Code Book.


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## captkirk

If you want the job I would give them a fixed price....Telling them not to exceed is pretty much saying its gonna cost this much but I just like to sugar coat it for you.....Do you have a basement/crawl space and do you have attic..? if so whats the problem. I dont get how you guys T and M resi...? I really dont. Sure you make a few bucks but no "homeruns" . Its like your basically saying "Sorry mame Ive been doing this for 20 years but im not sure how to price a job like this out... Pretty weak IMO. But hey thats just me.... The last Knob and Tube rewire I did netted me a BIG NUT....and Im looking at another partial rewire... When you give them a price make sure its in person....Dont stand there shaking your head and rubbing your hand on your chin saying "welllll its tough to put a number on it.....I could run into this and that.....I might have to do this or that....(big sigh).....Just give them a number with confidence.....They will go for it....Trust me...


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## Mike Guile

censored:


480sparky said:


> Yep. You got dinged with a Shirt Pocket Code Book.


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## nrp3

I have only been on my own for about 2 1/2 years and there is a certain comfort factor in T&M, especially for these old home remodels. Mark's $120/per opening seems to work out. I'd try that if I was pressed for a number next time. I have a core group of customers that have a pretty keen sense of what things cost. I have to be careful with the homeruns. Or, maybe I should ask what you mean by homerun or how much? I know we need to get paid what we're worth just trying to be fair too.


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## EDC

MDShunk said:


> USE SMART BOXES! (or the Arlington "One Box"). Don't bash big holes to use blue Carlons, and for heaven's sake, don't use the crappy boxes with wings. Take advantage of the new products and securely fix your box to a stud by using a Smart Box or One Box.


Smart boxes are easy in sheetrock because finding the stud is easy. In plaster and lath I find it much more work to find the stud and cut right up to it because you are usually using two different methods to cut out the hole (one for plaster and the other for the lath).

Any tips on doing this would be great, thanks.


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## captkirk

nrp3 said:


> I have only been on my own for about 2 1/2 years and there is a certain comfort factor in T&M, especially for these old home remodels. Mark's $120/per opening seems to work out. I'd try that if I was pressed for a number next time. I have a core group of customers that have a pretty keen sense of what things cost. I have to be careful with the homeruns. Or, maybe I should ask what you mean by homerun or how much? I know we need to get paid what we're worth just trying to be fair too.


 By homerun I mean a job in which you make a butt load of money in a realativly short amount of time. If you know what your doing and are comfortable in dealing with old homes, (that doesnt mean you use your foot and or hammer to make holes in the walls) you can make a nice amount of money in a short time.


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## MDShunk

EDC said:


> Smart boxes are easy in sheetrock because finding the stud is easy. In plaster and lath I find it much more work to find the stud and cut right up to it because you are usually using two different methods to cut out the hole (one for plaster and the other for the lath).
> 
> Any tips on doing this would be great, thanks.


That new Milwaukee stud finder (sub scanner) is the cat's ass in plaster and lath, but I still tend to use a cow magnet to just find the nails that hold the lath on the studs (also works great for metal studs). I use a RotoZip tile bit to go through the plaster and lath in one shebang. Sometimes, the plaster is so thick that you "run out of bit", and only score the lath. No biggie. That's the exception, rather than the rule. Plaster and lath work just takes longer than drywall, so that's just something we've gotta deal with. 

Sub scanner: http://www.toolbarn.com/milwaukee-2290-21.html

Cow magnet: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmags.html


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## EDC

MDShunk said:


> That new Milwaukee stud finder (sub scanner) is the cat's ass in plaster and lath, but I still tend to use a cow magnet to just find the nails that hold the lath on the studs (also works great for metal studs). I use a RotoZip tile bit to go through the plaster and lath in one shebang. Sometimes, the plaster is so thick that you "run out of bit", and only score the lath. No biggie. That's the exception, rather than the rule. Plaster and lath work just takes longer than drywall, so that's just something we've gotta deal with.
> 
> Sub scanner: http://www.toolbarn.com/milwaukee-2290-21.html
> 
> Cow magnet: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmags.html


Excellent, thanks!

Quick question, how many cuts do you normally get out of a tile bit?


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## MDShunk

EDC said:


> Excellent, thanks!
> 
> Quick question, how many cuts do you normally get out of a tile bit?


Depends on the type of plaster. As you probably have experienced, some plaster has the consistency of compressed sand, and other plaster is closer to cement. Sometimes you can do a whole house with one bit, and other times you'll burn through one on every hole. Just depends. I can sorta tell, by knocking on the plaster, how hard or soft it will be and factor that into the job somewhat. I keep a couple big packs of them in my RotoZip case all the times. If the plaster is especially hard, you can cut most of the "straight" part with a thin diamond wheel in a 4-1/2" grinder and just use the tile bit to take the lines the rest of the way to the corners. 

By the way, the guide point RotoZip bits are totally useless for an electrician. The spiral cut bits and the tile bits are all you'll ever need.


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## EDC

MDShunk said:


> Depends on the type of plaster. As you probably have experienced, some plaster has the consistency of compressed sand, and other plaster is closer to cement. Sometimes you can do a whole house with one bit, and other times you'll burn through one on every hole. Just depends. I can sorta tell, by knocking on the plaster, how hard or soft it will be and factor that into the job somewhat. I keep a couple big packs of them in my RotoZip case all the times. If the plaster is especially hard, you can cut most of the "straight" part with a thin diamond wheel in a 4-1/2" grinder and just use the tile bit to take the lines the rest of the way to the corners.
> 
> By the way, the guide point RotoZip bits are totally useless for an electrician. The spiral cut bits and the tile bits are all you'll ever need.


Thanks again.

BTW, I'm gonna stick with the magnet idea. That Milwaukee stud finder looks nice, but a bit on the expensive side. I have a couple Magnepull magnets I'll try out next time.


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## MDShunk

EDC said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> BTW, I'm gonna stick with the magnet idea. That Milwaukee stud finder looks nice, but a bit on the expensive side. I have a couple Magnepull magnets I'll try out next time.


Yeah, I actually bought that Milwaukee sub sensor thing for drilling and coring span decks and post tension slabs. It paid for itself the first time I didn't have to pay to have the deck X-rayed, which was the normal procedure before. If you drill into something important in a span deck, double tee, or post tension slab, that would be a pretty dandy claim on your insurance.


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## Shado

MDShunk said:


> That new Milwaukee stud finder (sub scanner) is the cat's ass in plaster and lath, but I still tend to use a cow magnet to just find the nails that hold the lath on the studs (also works great for metal studs). I use a RotoZip tile bit to go through the plaster and lath in one shebang. Sometimes, the plaster is so thick that you "run out of bit", and only score the lath. No biggie. That's the exception, rather than the rule. Plaster and lath work just takes longer than drywall, so that's just something we've gotta deal with.
> 
> Sub scanner: http://www.toolbarn.com/milwaukee-2290-21.html
> 
> Cow magnet: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmags.html


Wow...sure is pricey......but looks like a nice unit.

Never heard of cow magnets.....will have to look into getting one or two..


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## MDShunk

Yeah, you can get cow magnets at places like Tractor Supply, feed stores, and tack shops. Realistically, any good strong magnet will do the trick, but the cow magnets are all nice and rounded off so you won't leave scuff marks on the wall.


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## user4818

I haven't tried a "smart box" yet, but the thing I run into with interior lath and plaster walls is that many of them are a 2X3 on the flat, and if I'm not mistaken the don't make a 2" deep "smart box" yet. So I just go the old fashioned route with metal boxes and madison straps for old work.


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## J.D. Electric

I use these hole saws for cutting in old work round boxes . works the best for me . 
cuts plaster like butter . I do about 30 full rewires a year and had this bit for over a year and still cuts like the day i got it. here is a link https://pga1.readyhosting.com/ProFitMPHandyKitsE.asp


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## Innovative

On old homes, we rarely run into fire blocks... on new homes they are always there, my house(built on the coast in 2004) has 2-2x6 blocks in a 2x6x10 ft exterior wall.. maybe part of the "Southern Building Code". Since Hurricane Andrew, building codes changed drastically, along with insurance prices!!


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## Magnettica

brokenankle said:


> *WORK TO BE PERFORMED AT:**1923 Wayne Street*
> *Pittsburgh, PA 15218*
> 
> *Eve Ali*
> 
> 
> *Below is a list of the work needed in this house, it is vacant and some rooms are gutted. There is an old fuse box, old knob and tube wiring, and the house is not grounded. Can you please give me an estimate, thank you. *
> *100 Amp service completeNew service cable, whip, and meter socket on outside of houseInstall 20 circuit 100 amp murry breaker panel in basementUpdate all grounding to codeRe-wire basementInstall 8 keyless light fixtures and 1 switchInstall dedicated line for washerInstall 220 line for dryerInstall dedicated line for furnace1st Flr Re-wireKitchenInstall dedicated lines to all major appliances(refrigerator, microwarve, dishwasher, stove)Install small circuit GFI outlets on counter according to codeInstall switch and center ceiling fixtureDiningroomInstall 4 outlets, one 3way system and one light locationLivingroomInstall 4 outlets, one switch, one lightHallwayInstall 3 way system w/ light and one outlet2nd Flr Re-wireHallwayInstall 3 way system, 1 outlet, 1 lightAll bedroomsInstall 4 outlets, 1 switch, and 1 lightBathroomInstall GFI outlet, switch, and lightInstall hardwire smoke detectors through out, according to codeOutside1 switch and 1 light out each door, gfi front and backMotion detector on side and rearWire mold to be used in hard to reach locationsALL work will be inspected *
> *I will supply the light fixtures. *
> 
> 
> *my bid*
> *Being a brick half duplex is hard to know if you have any with plaster on brick with no studs could mean a lot of wiremold. Rough estimate $8000 - $9000*


$8k easily.


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## Magnettica

Peter D said:


> I haven't tried a "smart box" yet, but the thing I run into with interior lath and plaster walls is that many of them are a 2X3 on the flat, and if I'm not mistaken the don't make a 2" deep "smart box" yet. So I just go the old fashioned route with metal boxes and madison straps for old work.


Same here. The height of the metal old work boxes usually fits right in between the two pieces of cut lathe. Then I use screws to attach the box to the lathe on top and bottom and Madison bars if necessary. I like the idea of using a Smart Box though.


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## william1978

Thanks for all of the sugestions.


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## zen

for a different company i had a remodel about the same,,,my boss walked it with h/o and any holes needed to be made were ok with h/o,,,so unknowingly my boss gave them a bid and the night mare began,,plaster isnt cheap to patch so it changed to ,,keep devices in the same location but of coarse getting new wire to them lead to brittle plaster around the boxes and it was just a plain head ache...t/m is how we do it now, with a high and low number to help them feel comfortable..


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## captkirk

I just installed 8 three inch cans in a plaster ceiling today...I made no holes too. . I was sweating this part for weeks because the upstairs ceiling was very brittle but the downstarirs ceiling was a breeze and I was able to get it done with a holesaw that was on its last leg....
Im acually OK with the three inchers now. I had plenty of room to get wires around...


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## bobelectric

arlington 1 boxes are the cats.2 &3 gangs also.


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## jbrookers

I like to flat rate houses with an itemized list of the things going in. We make more money doing it that way and the customer isn't counting every second we are not standing on a ladder. Sure, there will be surprises, but not that many. We rewire one or two a month and always do well on them. Plus, the extras are easy.


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## LAElectrician

william1978 said:


> I was asked yesturday about rewiring a 1,000 sq. ft. house with plaster and they are wanting all the old wiring removed and are wanting me to rewire everything. My question is how do you all charge for this type of job? I can beat holes in the plaster where ever I need to is what I was told to get the boxs where I need to and to drill holes as needed. Just some suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance.:thumbsup:


Re-wiring houses is one of our company specialties. We charge about $4 per square foot for pulling new wires through existing conduit and about $6 for Knob and Tube re-wires. This includes what we call “rough patching,” which means that all the holes we make are covered but the painter will need to do the “final coat” of patching to match the texture of the existing plaster. Sometimes the main service has already been upgraded, sometimes not. If we upgrade the service we charge about $1,850 for a 100A service and $2,250 for a 200A.


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## LAElectrician

Magnettica said:


> $8k easily.


When I see a list like this, I have a policy of not bidding the job. Why? Because it's obvious to me that whoever wrote up this list has put a lot of time and energy into controlling every aspect of this job. They are going to get many bids on this job, and I am never going to be the lowest, so I'm never going to get the job. By the way, I don't think they are a bad customer, just not a customer that's going to hire my company.


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## Mr. Sparkle

Well said Kim, and thanks for those links to your contractor book. I'm about halfway through and the information you share is really crucial to helping one stay focused on the issues that really matter as far as starting up a contracting business.


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## locasios

I'm willing to do a rewire on a 40 yr old home with small crawl area and atttic area for $1000.00 4 -5 days 7 hr days and my customer is questioning the price WOW!!!!


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## yrman

locasios said:


> I'm willing to do a rewire on a 40 yr old home with small crawl area and atttic area for $1000.00 4 -5 days 7 hr days and my customer is questioning the price WOW!!!!


He is questioning your price because they know that no professional electrician will do 35 hours of work for $1000. You might as well just pull out your checkbook and write him a check.


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## BBQ

Zombie thread alert.


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## McClary’s Electrical

locasios said:


> I'm willing to do a rewire on a 40 yr old home with small crawl area and atttic area for $1000.00 4 -5 days 7 hr days and my customer is questioning the price WOW!!!!


 
You don't belong here...


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## denny3992

i wouldnt do it for that as side work!


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## nolabama

locasios said:


> I'm willing to do a rewire on a 40 yr old home with small crawl area and atttic area for $1000.00 4 -5 days 7 hr days and my customer is questioning the price WOW!!!!


I suggest you get into rehab as quick as you can. Crack Kills.


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## kennydmeek

yrman said:


> He is questioning your price because they know that no professional electrician will do 35 hours of work for $1000. You might as well just pull out your checkbook and write him a check.


I'd be multiplying that by about 3 for the deposit...


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## kennydmeek

MDShunk said:


> That new Milwaukee stud finder (sub scanner) is the cat's ass in plaster and lath, but I still tend to use a cow magnet to just find the nails that hold the lath on the studs (also works great for metal studs). I use a RotoZip tile bit to go through the plaster and lath in one shebang. Sometimes, the plaster is so thick that you "run out of bit", and only score the lath. No biggie. That's the exception, rather than the rule. Plaster and lath work just takes longer than drywall, so that's just something we've gotta deal with.
> 
> Sub scanner: http://www.toolbarn.com/milwaukee-2290-21.html
> 
> Cow magnet: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmags.html



I'd like to check that out someday....and the cow magnet....The Bosch thing I have sucks worse than a $40 stud finder...You live close enough to say Hagerstown to have lunch one day?


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## yrman

locasios said:


> I'm willing to do a rewire on a 40 yr old home with small crawl area and atttic area for $1000.00 4 -5 days 7 hr days and my customer is questioning the price WOW!!!!


I think you should go back to the customer and offer to do it for $650 and see if they bite. If not guess you'll have to take it for $500.


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## LAElectrician

locasios said:


> I'm willing to do a rewire on a 40 yr old home with small crawl area and atttic area for $1000.00 4 -5 days 7 hr days and my customer is questioning the price WOW!!!!


If this house is 40 years old, it was built around 1972. This implies that it already has a grounded system with plastic insulated wires. So why would this house need to be re-wired?


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## Ty Wrapp

LAElectrician said:


> If this house is 40 years old, it was built around 1972. This implies that it already has a grounded system with plastic insulated wires. So why would this house need to be re-wired?


Aluminum wire ?


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## yrman

LAElectrician said:


> If this house is 40 years old, it was built around 1972. This implies that it already has a grounded system with plastic insulated wires. So why would this house need to be re-wired?


I just got a jolt when you said that a 40 year old house was built in 1972. That _can't_ be old! Old houses were built before I was born and I was born a long time before 1972!


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## HARRY304E

locasios said:


> I'm willing to do a rewire on a 40 yr old home with small crawl area and atttic area for $1000.00 4 -5 days 7 hr days and my customer is questioning the price WOW!!!!


You must have meant $10,000.00


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## Cletis

*F*

F'em. Damn flippers. $10/sq ft so $10k. Sneak downstairs and put a card in panel real stealth like then leave. Just let the craigslisters do those jobs and wait til new owners move in or tenants and when they find out things are all messed up charge 5x that for emergency service calls to fix them.


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## McClary’s Electrical

Cletis said:


> F'em. Damn flippers. $10/sq ft so $10k. Sneak downstairs and put a card in panel real stealth like then leave. Just let the craigslisters do those jobs and wait til new owners move in or tenants and when they find out things are all messed up charge 5x that for emergency service calls to fix them.


 
You bid old work rewires by the square ft?


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## Chris1971

Cletis said:


> F'em. Damn flippers. $10/sq ft so $10k. Sneak downstairs and put a card in panel real stealth like then leave. Just let the craigslisters do those jobs and wait til new owners move in or tenants and when they find out things are all messed up charge 5x that for emergency service calls to fix them.


You're nuts!


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## HARRY304E

william1978 said:


> Thanks for all of the sugestions.


You're welcome..:thumbup:


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## Chris1971

HARRY304E said:


> You're unwelcome..:thumbup:


:no:


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## Cletis

*yeah*



mcclary's electrical said:


> You bid old work rewires by the square ft?


That type I do. Slab house 1000 sq ft x 10 no problem. I'm not going to get job anyhow cause someone around here would do it for around 3k. If I get it I have so many clauses and such in my contract and not worried about losing money OR I can just sub the same craigslister for 3k and pocket 7k. Either way I win.


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## Chris1971

Cletis said:


> That type I do. Slab house 1000 sq ft x 10 no problem. I'm not going to get job anyhow cause someone around here would do it for around 3k. If I get it I have so many clauses and such in my contract and not worried about losing money OR I can just sub the same craigslister for 3k and pocket 7k. Either way I win.


BS!!!!!!


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## Legacyelectric

Mike Guile said:


> ? Don't know. Don't tell me my inspector made me rip ALL old conductors out of house for nothing??
> 
> He said on a Total Rewire ALL old conductors MUST be removed.
> 
> I hope this wasn't a pocketbook inspector?


Have been told the same thing here. ALL means ALL. did one up here, about 2300 sq ft T&M, total rewire to modern code with a new service and an 18kW generator. Bill was well over 20 grand. That place had 3/4 inch tongue and groove WALLS! Had never seen anything like it before. Ended up doing floor receps in the living room because of it. Nearly every home run had to run up into the attic, then down through an old chase into the crawl space then back up to wherever it terminated. Difficult, but I really enjoyed the challenge.


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## 19kilosparky984

Legacyelectric said:


> Have been told the same thing here. ALL means ALL. did one up here, about 2300 sq ft T&M, total rewire to modern code with a new service and an 18kW generator. Bill was well over 20 grand. That place had 3/4 inch tongue and groove WALLS! Had never seen anything like it before. Ended up doing floor receps in the living room because of it. Nearly every home run had to run up into the attic, then down through an old chase into the crawl space then back up to wherever it terminated. Difficult, but I really enjoyed the challenge.


Hell the bill would have been well over 20 grand for new construction. 

Remodel should have been at least 1.5 times that.


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## Going_Commando

Legacyelectric said:


> Have been told the same thing here. ALL means ALL. did one up here, about 2300 sq ft T&M, total rewire to modern code with a new service and an 18kW generator. Bill was well over 20 grand. That place had 3/4 inch tongue and groove WALLS! Had never seen anything like it before. Ended up doing floor receps in the living room because of it. Nearly every home run had to run up into the attic, then down through an old chase into the crawl space then back up to wherever it terminated. Difficult, but I really enjoyed the challenge.


So it didn't have studs behind the T&G? Weird. Cutting switch boxes into wood is pretty easy, actually. Lot faster than plaster, especially with a mutli-tool.


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## captkirk

19kilosparky984 said:


> Hell the bill would have been well over 20 grand for new construction.
> 
> Remodel should have been at least 1.5 times that.


Ditto


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## NolaTigaBait

19kilosparky984 said:


> Hell the bill would have been well over 20 grand for new construction.
> 
> Remodel should have been at least 1.5 times that.


Hell thh generator would be half the 20k alone at least, plus a bitch of a remoel with closed walls and beaded board....sheesh


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## mnelectrician

EDC said:


> Excellent, thanks!
> 
> Quick question, how many cuts do you normally get out of a tile bit?


Rem grit sawzall blades make a nice clean and fast cut in plaster too. Might wanna give one of those a try too.


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## Going_Commando

mnelectrician said:


> Rem grit sawzall blades make a nice clean and fast cut in plaster too. Might wanna give one of those a try too.


Sawzalls cause too much vibration for older plaster, especially horse hair. In my experience they cause the plaster to separate from the lathe, causing bulges in walls, and sagging in ceilings. The multi tool is the beat medicine for old plaster.


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## mnelectrician

Going_Commando said:


> Sawzalls cause too much vibration for older plaster, especially horse hair. In my experience they cause the plaster to separate from the lathe, causing bulges in walls, and sagging in ceilings. The multi tool is the beat medicine for old plaster.


Depends on the blade, the speed, and the sawzall.


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## mnelectrician

If it's bad plaster that's ready to seperate from the lathe a multi tool works good.


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## retiredsparktech

mnelectrician said:


> If it's bad plaster that's ready to seperate from the lathe a multi tool works good.


I have to try out my genuine H-F multi-tool on old plaster. I used to live in old houses and always had a problem with plaster separating from the lath.  I used to use my variable speed sabre saw most of the time.


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