# laid off today!



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

That sucks.. good luck finding another job


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## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

sparks134 said:


>


Sorry to hear that. 

What's your situation? Union or not? If union, how long is the list at your hall? If not, what are your prospects?


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

union 2200 on books!


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## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

sparks134 said:


> union 2200 on books!


That's even worse than here. How long of a wait?

What are you going to do?


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

over 1 year


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

gonna be making some phone calls tommorow!


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

we really have limited work here in chicago, we were hoping for the olympic! i'll make it through all this crap!


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## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

sparks134 said:


> gonna be making some phone calls tommorow!


Are you allowed to solicit your own work? We aren't, we have to go by the list.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Sorry to hear brother, good luck!


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

A bit of good news in our area several bond issues passed which will mean work for the spring.Reform is still a possibility also.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

EDM said:


> Are you allowed to solicit your own work? We aren't, we have to go by the list.


all we can do is sit on the bench and wait your turn.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Sorry bro.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Sorry to hear that man. Good luck finding a job.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Did anyone tell you why you were laid off?

So you're just going to sit around the house and wait for an entire year for a job to come available?


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

gilbequick said:


> Did anyone tell you why you were laid off?
> 
> So you're just going to sit around the house and wait for an entire year for a job to come available?


My shop was losing on all there bids, so no more work! shop is closed!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

sparks134 said:


> My shop was losing on all there bids, so no more work! shop is closed!


 Ouch!! That sucks. How big was the shop?


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

went from 150 electricians 3 years ago to 10, now none!


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## ryanapplequist (Sep 19, 2009)

sorry about the bad luck man.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

sparks134 said:


> went from 150 electricians 3 years ago to 10, now none!


 Wow! That was a good size company.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

who are/were they losing the jobs too? union shops? non-union shops?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldman said:


> who are/were they losing the jobs too? union shops? non-union shops?


This doesn't directly apply, but my friend's dad (yes, I know, it's amazing that I have friends) was laid off as an estimator at a union plumbing shop. He said they were losing most of their bids to other union shops. They were basically bidding to stay alive. :blink:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Peter D said:


> This doesn't directly apply, but my friend's dad (yes, I know, it's amazing that I have friends) was laid off as an estimator at a union plumbing shop. He said they were losing most of their bids to other union shops. They were basically bidding to stay alive. :blink:


we are seeing that happen...large project recently went union....bid at $3.5mil by 3 union shops, winning company took the job at $2.5mil...same price as a non-union shop...


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

oldman said:


> we are seeing that happen...large project recently went union....bid at $3.5mil by 3 union shops, winning company took the job at $2.5mil...same price as a non-union shop...


 So the company took the job at a 1million dollar loss strait out of the gate? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.:no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

william1978 said:


> So the company took the job at a 1million dollar loss strait out of the gate? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.:no:


It's simple...cut out your profit (and everything else) and bid the job using an "R" rate instead of an "A" rate.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

there is a lot to it...

the local that the job is in is well known for being a PITA...the BA is an SOB...

but, the shop that took the job is relatively newly organized, and I believe they were fed a line by the BA about doing this job for the hall now, and getting more work down the line...problem is, there isn't much work in he pipeline...

supposedly $250k was kicked in by the local...

but there is no way, with the facts that I know, that this job can be done for that price by a union shop...

even if they are throwing apprentice after apprentice on them, it's not gonna be productive...

job honestly had $800k in material cost and 35,000-37,000 man hours....
it's a 4 month schedule...they started the job 1 month behind schedule....
A-journeymans total package in this local is $77/hr +taxes...

do the math...

just wondering if the OP's company was seeing similar issues?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldman said:


> tsupposedly $250k was kicked in by the local...


Can you elaborate on this? There is a fund available for the local for EC's to dip into to bid?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Can you elaborate on this? There is a fund available for the local for EC's to dip into to bid?


yep...job recovery fund...it's at the discretion of the BA to provide this money to 'win' a job from a non-union shop....


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

sparks134 said:


> My shop was losing on all there bids, so no more work! shop is closed!


I hate when that happens, and it happened to 15 out of the 16 shops I've worked for! NOt the one I'm with now though... :thumbup:


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I hate when that happens, and it happened to 15 out of the 16 shops I've worked for! NOt the one I'm with now though... :thumbup:


 hmmmm..... i just wonder...:whistling2:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

paul d. said:


> hmmmm..... i just wonder...:whistling2:


lots of bad management out there...it's amazing....


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

Are you looking into traveling at all?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I hate when that happens, and it happened to 15 out of the 16 shops I've worked for! NOt the one I'm with now though... :thumbup:


 Are you saying that you can really sink a ship?


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Can you elaborate on this? There is a fund available for the local for EC's to dip into to bid?


Its called the work recovery fund. Some locals pull money out of the labors's checks for the purpose of work recovery. Typically this money goes into the general fund and is is used at the BA's discretion with no rules or accountability. 

The process for getting the money requires you tell hall how many man hours you have, who is bidding, the size and when the project bids about a week before the project bids, then they let you know about an hour before bid time how much they will let you have. (as if you know all that info a week before bid day).

Then if you do get the money you have to let them audit your books for labor spent on the job.

You pretty much have to get on your knees and beg for help, and then it is not uncommon for for your union competitors to get this money while you do not, or for them to get a better offer depending on how much ass they kiss. I know per fact this happened to me last yer on a big job ($10M) when the hall said there was no money for the project only to find out one of my union competitors got it and later bragged about how much the hall kicked in to help him out.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

BTW I have been bidding jobs at 7 & 2, cut my labor to a composite rate that does not make sense, cut my material in stock to half price (or less), begged for work recovery money and got cut throat with my suppliers and have still had my ass handed to me on bid day.

What used to be a job with 5 of us bidding on to 3 or 4 GCs is now a freaking circus with 15 shops I have never even heard of bidding them with lots more GCs I have never even heard of on them too. There was actually a time I would not bid a GC on a large job unless I knew them, or if I did they did not get the same price my good GCs got. Not any more, they all get good prices now.

The market has changed and the fat is being cut. 

You can not leave a million on the table for a $3M job and not take a hit.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

i've spoken with 2 of the union shops that bid at $3.5, one is on the side for a different project, so they see what is occurring on a daily basis...the other, took a beating on a past project, in this same local, due to promised recovery funds not coming through...

in this particular local, try bringing a foreman in...you'll get nothing but JW's...won't have any apprentices available to you...take one of their foremen, and you may as well go to Vegas and bet on craps...it's about the same odds of success...


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## RyanB (Jul 14, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> I know per fact this happened to me last yer on a big job ($10M) when the hall said there was no money for the project only to find out one of my union competitors got it and later bragged about how much the hall kicked in to help him out.


Then why not go union and give yourself a better chance to compete?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RyanB said:


> Then why not go union and give yourself a better chance to compete?


 I think he is union.


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## RyanB (Jul 14, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I think he is union.


Doy! Sorry, I assumed from what he wrote that he was non-union but it's pretty clear he is union. My reading comprehension is poor today. :whistling2:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

RyanB said:


> Then why not go union and give yourself a better chance to compete?


Ohhh... you have got much to learn :no:

I love the Ibew where I am, but in other parts of the country it doesn't sound too hot. There is no problemo getting market recovery funds here, and the non-union side is about $10 cheaper on the manhour package. Sounds like the gap is much larger in other parts of the country.

The non-union guys respect the union here for keeping wages up, and the licensing keeps people coming in from out-of-state. There are a couple large non-union commercial contractors that are respectable, and one large non-union commercial contractor that is a total predator on their help. The two larger respectable non-union contractors have depended upon alot of condo tower work in the recent past, and I know one is hiring but the jobs are far outside of town. The other one hires and fires off the street like no tomorrow but I don't know how they are doing. The third one was hiring for $18 an hour no fringes last I heard, that is unheard of here, even residential is $25, what little housing there is...

Specialty trades like HVAC electrical are looking up. The controls electricians are spread out around sheet metal contractors, mechanical contractors, and manufacturer branch offices. Some do the whole ball-of-wax from design, install, programming, to commissioning. Others just do install. The sooner one union decides it owns the whole controls spectrum, the better, because no one can learn that crap overnight and there are tons of pitfalls that make a great barrier to entry.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

paul d. said:


> hmmmm..... i just wonder...:whistling2:


Well stop wondering... 

It was purely coincidence.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Well stop wondering...
> 
> It was purely coincidence.


 i'm sure it was.


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## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

Hey sparks, what shop layed you off and closed?


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## 134fisherman (Dec 13, 2008)

*I feel your pain*

have been working 32 hour weeks all year my boss don"t know if he will make it thru the winter ,:001_huh:hall looks bleak with alltime high of 2200 most its ever been in my 25 years IS 1600. and traviling isn"t an option waste of money and time with no work or for less pay .hang in there it can only get better!


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

134fisherman said:


> have been working 32 hour weeks all year my boss don"t know if he will make it thru the winter ,:001_huh:hall looks bleak with alltime high of 2200 most its ever been in my 25 years IS 1600. and traviling isn"t an option waste of money and time with no work or for less pay .hang in there it can only get better!


im hangin there!!!:mellow:


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## sparked134 (Nov 19, 2009)

sparks134, are you res. or com. , I been laid off a year and im res. hope something breaks for us soon. longest i ever been sitting on the bench. good luck to you. let me know you were working for, I was with nuline doing the high rises in 08 when thay let me go


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## MOGAL (Nov 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear that. My time is coming soon. I really expect my 2 checks next week. Not much work here in St. Louis. over 700 on the books and NO jobs. Did hear that Collinsville, Il has work in the coming weeks for the Commercial guys. But if I remember correctly you are Resi? We have a new classification her in STL called a CW(commercial worker 70% JW rate). Many of our Resi's have changed classification just to get out and work. Does Chicago have anything like that?


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## sparked134 (Nov 19, 2009)

sorry to here that, hope you keep working. here in chicago we have an A card for com. and R card for res. If your a R card you have to have 8,000 hrs and take like 10 classes to up grade to an A card. I have the hours but never took the classes because the school like two hours away from me. So for know im stuck with res. We got 2300 on the A card and 530 on the R card. Theres been like one call for one person on res. side in four mouth. I got like 150 guys ahead of me before my number comes up. so if thay don't start moving the books the first if the year(and it doesn't look like it will) It may be other year. if unemployment runs out going to have find someother kind of work for less money. Was hoping it doesn't come down to that. But looks like all i can do is sit and wait till spring good luck to you brother


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

works slow here in New York as well. sure the wages are high but that doesnt do any good if there is no work. these asshole stock market manipulators screwed us real good. its ironic we need them to build for us to work. things are different for everybody even the guys working steady. we are all feeling this. 

Keep your head up brother!!!!!!


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

well the one ray of sunshine is after these downturns we usually have several years of growth its just hard to think about draining the swamp when you are up to your but in alligators


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

Mogal, I thought Collinsville was done. Im on that book about 500 back. What are you hearin.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

With no incentives for businesses and higher taxes on corporate profits and personal income, the turnaround will most likely be slow in coming.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Amen

And it's not contractors - we want to hire. 

It's the customers who aren't keen on spending at this time.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

oldman said:


> Amen
> 
> And it's not contractors - we want to hire.
> 
> It's the customers who aren't keen on spending at this time.


Usually we are slammed from Thanksgivings through New Year's as customers spend their last budget dollars before losing them at year’s end.

This year they are all holding onto the dollars for fear there will be no new cash come 2010.


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## sparked134 (Nov 19, 2009)

the media needs to stop scarying eveyone, there selling the drama to get better rattings, Its not as bad as it seems, if we could just get people away from the drama and just get on with our lifes things would get back to normal or at least growing again


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

sparked134 said:


> the media needs to stop scarying eveyone, there selling the drama to get better rattings, Its not as bad as it seems, if we could just get people away from the drama and just get on with our lifes things would get back to normal or at least growing again


 
What is normal? Since NAFTA we've been treading water. Free trade and exporting all our manufacturing along with reducing natural resource harvesting has destroyed our economy. Letting all the Mexicans cross the border hasn't helped either. There is no getting back to normal without some huge political changes.


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## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

Change is comming!!! Just wait till that Health Care bill passes with all that other stuff that we have to pay for. Everyone has some extra money lately that you have been wondering what you were going to do with right? Well let me tell you *Mr. Change* has that covered for you.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

stars13bars2 said:


> Change is comming!!! Just wait till that Health Care bill passes with all that other stuff that we have to pay for. Everyone has some extra money lately that you have been wondering what you were going to do with right? Well let me tell you *Mr. Change* has that covered for you.


 Tell us how you really feel.:laughing:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

about the same as me...

for the 1st time since i've been involved in this industry, i hesitate to grow...until all these plans and bills get put in place, who knows what is going to happen...without a clear picture of where this country is going, things are very uncertain...


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## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

You probably remember our state representative Joe "You Lie" Wilson calling out Mr. Change on this, but to my knowledge not one person has presented any evidence that would prove that Mr. Change wasn't lying. There is a hell of a lot more in this bill that they don't want us to know about. Be afraid, be very afraid. Its time for America to wake up and realize that there really is no free lunch. :whistling2:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

*Koolaid, Get yours now before it's all gone!*

Koolaid is now being served! Black helicopters are everywhere. They are after our guns! Health care will bankrupt the country, nevermind that Canada and Europe appear to be doing just fine. Evil Demorats are gonna give away the country, don't matter that dubya made 1000's of illegal aliens citizens in a stadium in Texas. Keeps pouring the Kooaid, mmmm, that's good. I dun heard that they are gonna raise small business taxes to 85%! Swigging down that Koolaid now, where's roosh limp-paw when ya you're having a party? Now if we can just spend a couple more billion on that starz warz, lazar tag thingamagig we'll keep those darn commies at bay! That definetly won't bankrupt the country though cause cheena is gonna loan us some more dough to pay for it. God, guns and nucular weapons! Don't forget about trickle down, man that yellow rain sure is delicious!


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

laugh it off...but check you're facts...or lack of...


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't know what the Canadians will do when we socilize our medical. I live on the border and most of the shopping centers are full of Canadians avoiding the high taxes that pay for their "free" healthcare. The local hospitals do a good business treating Canadians who pay for their Xrays and MRIs becase the "free" healthcare cannot provide basic services without months of waiting. How many Canadian doctor will leave the US just like they left Canada because the pay is so low they can't pay off their student loans from medical school?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

drsparky said:


> I don't know what the Canadians will do when we socilize our medical.


I don't care what the docs do. Laugh it up, but I had food poisoning, and it got worse because I took Immodium, so I went to the doc-in-the-box. $800 billed to insurance for seeing the Med-**** for 10 minutes. She gave me a cup to crap in. I never did it, and got better soon anyways. I'd hate to see what kind of charges came from interpreting my entrails...

You don't think this is wrong?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> I don't care what the docs do. Laugh it up, but I had food poisoning, and it got worse because I took Immodium, so I went to the doc-in-the-box. $800 billed to insurance for seeing the Med-**** for 10 minutes. She gave me a cup to crap in. I never did it, and got better soon anyways. I'd hate to see what kind of charges came from interpreting my entrails...
> 
> You don't think this is wrong?


how much was paid? do you know?

not defending docs, but they carry some serious overhead...look to the trial lawyers...and look who the lawyers support...


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## MisterCMK (Jul 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I don't care what the docs do. Laugh it up, but I had food poisoning, and it got worse because I took Immodium, so I went to the doc-in-the-box. $800 billed to insurance for seeing the Med-**** for 10 minutes. She gave me a cup to crap in. I never did it, and got better soon anyways. I'd hate to see what kind of charges came from interpreting my entrails...
> 
> You don't think this is wrong?


My buddy went to the ER one night for what he thought was a bladder infection that was hurting tremendously. He paid for it by check and the whole trip was $75. Not kidding either.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

MisterCMK said:


> He paid for it by check and the whole trip was $75.


That must have been a long time ago, or in a land far away...

There is alot of money each month going to the insurance companies, between what the employer pays, and the employee pays (if you are non-union.)


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