# unstructured wiring!



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

On a service call for a fire alarm ground fault. Find this gem. 








I think they should Lynch whom ever installed this b.s.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Same junction boxes. This is how I found them. No covers. 
There were( 2) 4 conductor cables in one in each junction box that went into the facp, and basically spliced through. Effectively just making a big loop. I disconnected them and tagged them. Removed some of the chaos.


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

The ground fault doesn't surprise me. :laughing:

Speaking of ground faults. I was reading an article on building an insulation tester for 24v alarm system from an old analog multimeter, batteries and a resistor. 

You just boast the ohm meter and bring the needle back to zero with the resistor. 

I tried to get a solid answer from system sensor about using a 50v insulation tester to locate ground faults without damaging the addressable units to no avail. 

Them - "UL listing blah blah blah operating voltage yata yata yata..."

Me - "I understand the operating voltage but I just want to test for a few seconds."


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Try one of these...










http://www.datacomtools.com/catalog/tempo-sidekick.htm

Run the stress test.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

AllWIRES said:


> The ground fault doesn't surprise me. :laughing:
> 
> Speaking of ground faults. I was reading an article on building an insulation tester for 24v alarm system from an old analog multimeter, batteries and a resistor.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it was the smartest move...but one time I put an 18v battery across the +,- leads on an slc loop. Which was disconnected at the panel and had a few devices in the field....and there was smoke coming from a smoke detector!! Ironic
So I would shy away from putting any source of power on an slc while there are devices attached... 
In all honesty I despise this low energy wire. Even when installed in conduit. The insulation is awful. It is way to easy to pierce the conductors while tucking into a box. 
And inevitablely there are ground faults down the line. It is a given.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

I worked for a fire alarm guy for a few months. In the fire alarm world, that's par for the course hackery.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

five.five-six said:


> I worked for a fire alarm guy for a few months. In the fire alarm world, that's par for the course hackery.


I couldn't take being a LV electrician. Coming across installs like this all the time would just kill my morale.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Fire alarm is it's own niche.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Ot drives me nuts, the installs which follow no color code. And have splices everywhere. 
I removed a bunch of unneeded splices and loops of wire which went nowhere. 
Labeled what I could identify. 
But this was a real can of worms. 
Also they had an ancient Simplex 4002. Which was a 10 zone conventional panel, in a supermarket. Under covered


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Do you need to be licensed to work on fire systems in Ma?


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Yes. 
A minimum of a systems technician license . It's a license for low voltage installs. 
Journeymen license supercedes that license. 
If you are a business installing or servicing fire alarms you must maintain a telephone line 24/7 I.e. answering service etc...
There's a bunch of laws covering fire alarm installs in ma. However the install codes are very varied by city. No uniform color code is one of my pet peeves. Also class b systems are still allowed in certain towns. Which I don't care for. 
Additionally the low energy cable is useless in my opinion.


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Try one of these... http://www.datacomtools.com/catalog/tempo-sidekick.htm Run the stress test.


Seems legit. 

Ever use it on an addressable system?


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Damn that is awful. Sorry for your luck on that hidden gem.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Try one of these...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That thing does things I don't know anything about. :laughing:


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

AllWIRES said:


> Seems legit.
> 
> Ever use it on an addressable system?


I use it for trouble shooting telephone service.

I have found many fried alarm systems connected to the telephone service with it.


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