# Federal Pacific Stab Lok.



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Click here.


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> Twice in as many days I've come across these panels. The first was a service call which turned out to be a bad breaker, the second was a salon wanting to add more circuits to their stations.
> 
> The salon's panel was a 200 amp with a minimum load..... but a freaking stab lok!!
> 
> So, with all the talk of the dangers of fpe panels and breakers, will you replace/add a stab lok breaker or tell the customer that they need to replace the panel?


I keep a handful of those old breakers around for replacments. I always try to convince them to replace the entire panel , but some folks just don't have the money.


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## electrick (Sep 4, 2010)

There is little doubt as to what a POS the FPE panels are if you have ever worked in one. You could recommend a new panel but may lose out if they opt for someone who will just put in a breaker. 
Tough call. There is lots of info on the internet to scare the  out of anyone with these panels. Personally, I wouldn't want one in my house. 
On the flip side however, I can tell you that I have a 900 unit condo complex that I do work at that was built in the mid 1980's. There are FPE, Gould, Bryant, GE and Square D panels there. In 20 years of working there I have never seen a burnout on an FPE panel. Oddly enough the majority of problems have been with 2p30 SqD breakers melting the bus bars. GE runs a close second.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Click here.


Hey! Did you make that site? 


Great info consolidated in that link.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

The same design is STILL for sale in Canada and it's called Federal Pioneer. I have even seen a house in a recently built subdivision(less than 6 years old maybe) with a new 64-circuit 200A Federal Pioneer panel. I don't know why they are still legal. 

One of our regular customers is a banquet hall and all of their panels are 3ø Federal NBLP bolt-on Stab Lok! The worst one is in the kitchen and has a million random abandoned wires left in there, marretted and taped up, shoved back inside. Plus it's greasy, recessed in the wall and some kind of giant power mixer bowl thingy is now parked in front of it. Not a nice panel to connect new equipment to. I found an unused 3-pole 70A breaker in there...not sure what it was originally for but unusually for a Federal it was all black. We in fact connected a semi-new FP panel which was already installed there, but not served and no equipment connected to it. The day after we brought feeders to it from the electrical room there was a fire at the hall. It turned out to be arson....but when I arrived at 7 AM that morning to start connecting circuits you bet the first thing on my mind was....FP breakers causing the fire.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

electrick said:


> There is little doubt as to what a POS the FPE panels are if you have ever worked in one. You could recommend a new panel but may lose out if they opt for someone who will just put in a breaker.
> Tough call. There is lots of info on the internet to scare the  out of anyone with these panels. Personally, I wouldn't want one in my house.
> On the flip side however, I can tell you that I have a 900 unit condo complex that I do work at that was built in the mid 1980's. There are FPE, Gould, Bryant, GE and Square D panels there. In 20 years of working there I have never seen a burnout on an FPE panel. Oddly enough the majority of problems have been with 2p30 SqD breakers melting the bus bars. GE runs a close second.


I agree, I have never encountered a burnt up FPE panel and been doing service repair for a long time. The problem with them is not the "Stab Loc" it is the fact that they don't open during a ground fault. Get a short in a bedroom J box and the sparks will fly until the wire itself melts in half.

Generally when Im in the OP's position I tell them they need a new panel because they are unsafe, I also tell them that 1 stab loc breaker will cost them $70 when a modern panel breaker is around $10. If they insist I will install the stab loc, after all I don't work for UL and I didn't install the FPE junk in the first place.

Make sure to document on the bill that a panel replacement was recommended...just to CYA


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

As a side note CH does make a retrofit kit for the FPE panels for about $400 ( they are cashing in on the FPE shananigan's) comes in handy if you got an existing tub that is all EMT going in 4 directions


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Click here.


 
Thanks, added to my book marks to scare the crap out of my future customers :thumbsup:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

For many years, FPE was the best equipment out there. It is only a narrow vintage of residential FPE stuff that brought the whole empire down.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> For many years, FPE was the best equipment out there. It is only a narrow vintage of residential FPE stuff that brought the whole empire down.


Didn't realize FPE was an empire, stuff I see is both Commercial and residential and is all the same equal garbage


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

What I like about the FPE panels is you can splash your #14 fed from a 15A single pole to ground and take out the 200A main fuse without tripping the breaker..


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Federal Pioneer in Canada
Found this little tidbit.. 

http://www.selfhelpforums.com/showthread.php?t=1116


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Toronto Sparky said:


> Federal Pioneer in Canada
> Found this little tidbit..
> 
> http://www.selfhelpforums.com/showthread.php?t=1116



So SqD makes Federal pioneer?.......:001_huh: Wow, had no idea.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The only ones that seem to go bad for me are the ones that are in damp basements. That seems to hold true for many other brands as well. The apartments I serve have hundreds of FPE panels including some bolt ins and service equipment. I still think its junk and try to replace it when I can. We have Zinsco too. Just a little further down the list of crap.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> The only ones that seem to go bad for me are the ones that are in damp basements. That seems to hold true for many other brands as well. The apartments I serve have hundreds of FPE panels including some bolt ins and service equipment. I still think its junk and try to replace it when I can. We have Zinsco too. Just a little further down the list of crap.




Don't be bad mouthing Zinsco ....I've made a lot of money changing them out.:laughing:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The only Zinscos I've changed lately was to get some spares and as an experiment for the landlord to see what the cost was. One of the complexes has them for distribution equipment, virtually no place to land neutrals, total junk. One was replaced with square d, three to go.

I think if they (landlord) had to change all the panels in the apartments from FPE or Zinsco, I might look into the Cutler Hammer Route. I think they have a BR option. It might be a lot less work. Some of those FPE panels have a mud ring like opening. Some of the apartments have the panels in the closets, might make replacement a little more acceptable.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> The only Zinscos I've changed lately was to get some spares and as an experiment for the landlord to see what the cost was. One of the complexes has them for distribution equipment, virtually no place to land neutrals, total junk. One was replaced with square d, three to go.
> 
> I think if they (landlord) had to change all the panels in the apartments from FPE or Zinsco, I might look into the Cutler Hammer Route. I think they have a BR option. It might be a lot less work. Some of those FPE panels have a mud ring like opening. Some of the apartments have the panels in the closets, might make replacement a little more acceptable.



Most of the resi FPE panels don't have the wire bending space for the CH bus kits. Or so I was told by my CH rep.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

You know, now that you mention it, I think some that I had pulled out of the apartments weren't a full stud bay width. That would make sense.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

It's the little half size stab lok breakers that really created havoc ..


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## circuit man (Jul 5, 2010)

they do make a replacement in our area but the panels are no longer made.also the replacements will trip as ifound out when two drunks wired a float switch for a sewage pump straight across the hot & neutral. biggest laugh i got day was , they didn't have a clue what they were doing. the scary part was they could have been killed!


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