# first year apprentice on the job learning



## jeromjenkins (Dec 26, 2013)

What skills should a first year apprentice be learning on the job?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Ditch digging, cleaning, organizing, learning materials and tools, how to help pull wire

Eventually a little conduit work. I guess it depends on what kind of work your employer does


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## jeromjenkins (Dec 26, 2013)

Commercial work. Have done a little conduit work but not much in my first 7 months, and plenty of the other things you mentioned. Just want sure of this was on par with others


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I think it's important for first years to completely familiarize themselves with all the products and tools and how they're used before they get too hands on. I usually have green guys build trapeze or drill holes. A first year guy should be like a shadow to his jw.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jeromjenkins said:


> Commercial work. Have done a little conduit work but not much in my first 7 months, and plenty of the other things you mentioned. Just want sure of this was on par with others



Do this and teach yourself.




Pipe bending.

Go buy 100' of 3/4" EMT AND A 3/4" Ideal EMT bender with the handle and the book ,, read the book many times.

Now set up a sheet of plywood in your garage or basement.

Put a 4" square box at the 6 o'clock position 1' above that have a 2" PVC going across your path measure up another foot and make a mark,,,,about 30" to the right place another box at the 3 o'clock position .

Now make a box-offset to come out of your box at the 6 o'clock position then make a 3 point saddle to go over your 2" PVC, then measure to make a 90 DEG bend to your box at the 3 o'clock position make a box-offset to hit the box at the 3 o'clock position, use some one-hole clips to secure your pipe.

You must do this in one piece "NO COUPLINGS"....:laughing:

Doing this is good practice and you can make it even harder for good measure .

Take your time and teach yourself this once you get this down you'll have a much better understanding of bending pipe and installing it like it's a piece of cake.

When you're doing such things as back to back 90's you should use two torpedo levels to make your work perfect the first time.


Have fun messing around with it,as you practice you'll see results within the first 100'.

I've done this myself many times just to get the practice and keep these skills sharp.

Good luck and Welcome to the electrical trade..:thumbup:
__________________
__________________


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## icemanjc (Dec 25, 2012)

Donut buying, people will love you if they get free donuts!


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## jeromjenkins (Dec 26, 2013)

Some times, I am sent out to a job with a 2nd year apprentice. Not good times. While he knows more than me, its like the blind leading the blind


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

jeromjenkins said:


> Some times, I am sent out to a job with a 2nd year apprentice. Not good times. While he knows more than me, its like the blind leading the blind


That should almost never happen, unless you're trimming out a house or something else menial.


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## jeromjenkins (Dec 26, 2013)

We have done demo work, sometimes live and some times not. Hanging light fixtures for grocery stores, rewiring of refrigeration cases


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

It all depends. Sometimes its like a baptism by fire. I'm a first year wiring an entire fire alarm system in a 4-level, 110-unit apartment with only 9 months in the trade. Under supervision of course. I consider myself fortunate that I get to do things slightly out of my experience level from time to time.


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## T.Jack (Sep 5, 2012)

It all depends like others have said. I got lucky and got on the one line crew so I got to do big pipe using table bender, wire pulling using tuggers and parapullers. Also got some experience doing medium voltage splicing (13.2kv) and switchgear terminations all in all I consider myself lucky for learning what I did my first year and not just being a material running, broom pushing laborer basically.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I kinda believe what you learn in your 5 year apprenticeship sets the tone for what you do the rest of your career. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny.


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

How to utilize a broom. :whistling2:


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## 04gixx6 (Mar 18, 2012)

T.Jack said:


> It all depends like others have said. I got lucky and got on the one line crew so I got to do big pipe using table bender, wire pulling using tuggers and parapullers. Also got some experience doing medium voltage splicing (13.2kv) and switchgear terminations all in all I consider myself lucky for learning what I did my first year and not just being a material running, broom pushing laborer basically.


Same here. I've made up a dozen or so transformers up to 300kva. As well as disconnects, VFD's, and have been able to have some freedom to take a set of prints and lay out rooms and pull wire for them. Very grateful for being a 2nd year. Had to add this edit: a JW ALWAYS double checks my make up. If he doesn't, ask him to.


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## KneePads (Mar 5, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> I kinda believe what you learn in your 5 year apprenticeship sets the tone for what you do the rest of your career. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny.


I agree. Most guys who have multiple areas of experience and who were hands on turn out to be the best electricians. Sure a first year is going to pick up trash, sweep and dig trenches. Crap work. But you should be glued to your jw when not doing that and learning and doing what he is.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

I get called in to assist other crews on different sites with their main distribution board changeouts because Im one of the few apprentices that own sockets and wrenches, its pretty sweet experience wise and I learn a wealth of knowledge on every one from the different journeyman Im with.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

jeromjenkins said:


> What skills should a first year apprentice be learning on the job?


You should be learning and doing everything your brain sponge will allow you to. If you detect a pattern where you are taught to complete a menial task and just do that over and over, while more complicated tasks are left to the journeymen then you are not learning. Ask your foreman to bend some conduit once in a while, ask to set some panels and distribution boards, ask to help setup and pull feeders. And ask lots of questions. Don't be the guy who never opens his mouth because you're afraid you'll come off as stupid, you're supposed to be learning. Know that not every journeyman is a good teacher and may not spell out everything in their thought process while showing you how something is done. 


> Some times, I am sent out to a job with a 2nd year apprentice. Not good times. While he knows more than me, its like the blind leading the blind


 If this is happening your boss is not interested in anything about you other than you're a warm body and you're cheap. He should not be doing this. You are being used. For certain he's billing the client for 2 electricians and not telling them "I'm sending 2 trainees." When a company utilized apprentices as if they're fully trained competent journeymen there will be no place for you there once you turn out.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> I kinda believe what you learn in your 5 year apprenticeship sets the tone for what you do the rest of your career. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny.


absolutely. if you make effort to learn and do youll go far. if you loaf around waiting for payday learning nothing you probably wont do that great once you top out


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

You guys forgot THE MOST IMPORTANT task of the 1st years.

Coffee and lunch runs!

When I have a new set of boots assigned to me they leave their tools in the truck and carry mine (gawd help them if they loose one or put it back in the wrong spot, they'll find out how an army sgt can rip ears off) and I call out the tools/part that I need for them to hand them to me, and better have the garbage off the floor before we walk away from that spot. When they start handing me the right tool/part before I ask, then they get to start touching actual work.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

daks said:


> You guys forgot THE MOST IMPORTANT task of the 1st years.
> 
> Coffee and lunch runs!
> 
> When I have a new set of boots assigned to me they leave their tools in the truck and carry mine (gawd help them if they loose one or put it back in the wrong spot, they'll find out how an army sgt can rip ears off) and I call out the tools/part that I need for them to hand them to me, and better have the garbage off the floor before we walk away from that spot. When they start handing me the right tool/part before I ask, then they get to start touching actual work.


You sound like you have a small ..... and hen pecked at home. Most likely mouth .... during your time in the army.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

chewy said:


> You sound like you have a small ..... and hen pecked at home. Most likely mouth .... during your time in the army.


i agree. that guy has some weird power issues


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

daks said:


> You guys forgot THE MOST IMPORTANT task of the 1st years.
> 
> Coffee and lunch runs!
> 
> When I have a new set of boots assigned to me they leave their tools in the truck and carry mine (gawd help them if they loose one or put it back in the wrong spot, they'll find out how an army sgt can rip ears off) and I call out the tools/part that I need for them to hand them to me, and better have the garbage off the floor before we walk away from that spot. When they start handing me the right tool/part before I ask, then they get to start touching actual work.


It sounds like you want a batman instead of an apprentice. Gunga Din bring water!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> I kinda believe what you learn in your 5 year apprenticeship sets the tone for what you do the rest of your career. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny.


 Always thought I wanted to be an industrial service guy. Spent my apprenticeship doing residential and commercial construction. Was an uphill battle changing over.


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

chewy said:


> You sound like you have a small ..... and hen pecked at home. Most likely mouth .... during your time in the army.





Hippie said:


> i agree. that guy has some weird power issues





Maximumbob said:


> It sounds like you want a batman instead of an apprentice. Gunga Din bring water!


 Exactly the opposite in every respect chewy , and not power tripping there/ hippie and Maximumbob. 

Demonstration of the work to be performed, when they can hand the parts/tools before I need them I shows that they know what is what and how to put it together properly and in what order. 

A few apprentices wondered why I was a harda$$ for the tool positions and loosing them, then when they figured out WHY, they have always thanked me. Can you 3 figure out why I would do it that way? Can you figure out why those apprentices would ask to work with me time and again?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

daks said:


> A few apprentices wondered why I was a harda$$ for the tool positions and loosing them, then when they figured out WHY, they have always thanked me. Can you 3 figure out why I would do it that way? Can you figure out why those apprentices would ask to work with me time and again?


Stockholm syndrome?


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

chewy said:


> Stockholm syndrome?


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

chewy said:


> Stockholm syndrome?


 LOL nope, care to try a serious answer, :thumbsup:


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

daks said:


> You guys forgot THE MOST IMPORTANT task of the 1st years. Coffee and lunch runs! When I have a new set of boots assigned to me they leave their tools in the truck and carry mine (gawd help them if they loose one or put it back in the wrong spot, they'll find out how an army sgt can rip ears off) and I call out the tools/part that I need for them to hand them to me, and better have the garbage off the floor before we walk away from that spot. When they start handing me the right tool/part before I ask, then they get to start touching actual work.





daks said:


> Exactly the opposite in every respect chewy , and not power tripping there/ hippie and Maximumbob. Demonstration of the work to be performed, when they can hand the parts/tools before I need them I shows that they know what is what and how to put it together properly and in what order. A few apprentices wondered why I was a harda$$ for the tool positions and loosing them, then when they figured out WHY, they have always thanked me. Can you 3 figure out why I would do it that way? Can you figure out why those apprentices would ask to work with me time and again?


 youve become such an asshole its made you delusional to the point where you believe people enjoy your company?


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## T.Jack (Sep 5, 2012)

daks said:


> You guys forgot THE MOST IMPORTANT task of the 1st years.
> 
> Coffee and lunch runs!
> 
> When I have a new set of boots assigned to me they leave their tools in the truck and carry mine (gawd help them if they loose one or put it back in the wrong spot, they'll find out how an army sgt can rip ears off) and I call out the tools/part that I need for them to hand them to me, and better have the garbage off the floor before we walk away from that spot. When they start handing me the right tool/part before I ask, then they get to start touching actual work.


Getting coffee and lunch would fly so long as mine was paid for as well or I drove a company vehicle. As far as carrying a JWs tools. Haha not a chance in hell. Everything else is fine and expected


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

Next72969 said:


> youve become such an asshole its made you delusional to the point where you believe people enjoy your company?


 The space aliens said everyone loves my company!

For the cranial flatulent ones I'll explain the logic that these 1'st years figured out faster....

A lot of first years either have crap tools or have the major tool bag syndrome. Once they realize you don't need to carry 20kilos on yourself all day, it makes life easier, and why those dollar store tools should only be used for a doorstop. Keeping tools in a standard placement confuses some at first, until they see the guy up on the ladder flopping around trying to find a particular tool, they now just reach to a spot in their pouch, grab the proper tool with no flopping. They also know by just by glancing at their pouch or toolbag if something is missing, you may say "no biggie buy a new tool", what happens when said tool was left in a service, MCC center or on top of a buss or I-beam? Saves running back for them/it or a potential serious accident in the future. 

Everyone gets the "gah" look first time sent for coffee, 'till they realize they get a free coffee out of it and get to keep the change (and the younger crowd gets to catch up on all their phone texts). Smoke ciggie butts and sneak in an extra sandwich.... really works out to be a "perk".


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## 04gixx6 (Mar 18, 2012)

daks said:


> The space aliens said everyone loves my company!
> 
> For the cranial flatulent ones I'll explain the logic that these 1'st years figured out faster....
> 
> ...


I think there's bigger fish to fry than worrying about fumbling for tools in pouches.That comes with time. Oh, and I'd gladly get you coffee, right before I spit in it.


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## jeromjenkins (Dec 26, 2013)

What are considered crap tools? My bag isn't full of kleins, but I feel like all my tools are quality tools.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

Any sergeant I ever had in the army would assume you were intelligent, mature, and capable of working unless proven otherwise. Here in Alberta you will likely never see the "tool carrier only" apprentice. If you have to pay an apprentice at least half your wage, he is worth way more pulling wire than holding a pair of pliers waiting for his JW to summon that tool.

By the way, love going for coffee runs for the reasons listed. Those days somehow always line up with when I forget my lunch at home.


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

Tool carrying is for their first few hours/ day(s), and every moment I'm doing something it's there is a two way conversation / lesson. Along with the fun memory slogans i.e. no hot white to the light.... black to brass will save you a$$ etc. oh and I warn them about some of the fun hazing tricks that get pulled by the oldtimers and how to turn them around. I've seen it done many different ways but most kept asking to be assigned to me, the couple others, well lets just say they ended up in carpentry or plumbing.  
You'd be surprised how many kids that come out of high school and when given a hammer or screwdriver, end up in first aid before lunch. I think it's much better to take them under your wing than hand them a broom for the day. 

Ink&brass what Sgt considered new boots right off the bus for basic competent? What did the NCO's or brass do when you left your rifle by the blue rocket or forgot your canteen etc etc...


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

daks said:


> Tool carrying is for their first few hours/ day(s), and every moment I'm doing something it's there is a two way conversation / lesson. Along with the fun memory slogans i.e. no hot white to the light.... black to brass will save you a$$ etc. oh and I warn them about some of the fun hazing tricks that get pulled by the oldtimers and how to turn them around. I've seen it done many different ways but most kept asking to be assigned to me, the couple others, well lets just say they ended up in carpentry or plumbing.
> You'd be surprised how many kids that come out of high school and when given a hammer or screwdriver, end up in first aid before lunch. I think it's much better to take them under your wing than hand them a broom for the day.
> 
> Ink&brass what Sgt considered new boots right off the bus for basic competent? What did the NCO's or brass do when you left your rifle by the blue rocket or forgot your canteen etc etc...


BMQ and first-year electrical regardless are two very different beasts. I was talking more garrison life. :laughing:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

daks said:


> LOL nope, care to try a serious answer, :thumbsup:


No, the mods have already been leniant with me and I wont push it any further.


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

jeromjenkins said:


> What are considered crap tools? My bag isn't full of kleins, but I feel like all my tools are quality tools.


 We had one kid start with tools he literally bought from a dollar store, he did not have the $$. (Part of the requirement was apprentices must show up with their own basic tools) Owner of that company was a prick and would toss kids out like they were disposable. I looped my belt over his shoulder during the morning meeting (told him to keep quite) and took him out with me, I didn't laugh when he tried his screwdriver and the blade twisted like it was made of plastic. He was good with his hands so at lunch we went out to my car and I traded him his "play tools" for my spare pouch set in my trunk. I thought he was gonna start to cry when I handed him those and he asked why I would do that for him, my reply was "people have helped me get to where I am today, and by what I see in you, some day you'll do the same". He offered me his first paycheck but I would not take it, just told him to buy me a coffee and take my codebook home every night and do some reading and ask questions in the morning. (LOL tbh in a selfish way it helps me keep refreshed with the code book).

Lol Kleins now a days are questionable about quality... so never judge tools by the brand name. I have no idea how many different brands of tools I have now. 

Now it seems that when I'm in the field I get assigned the kids that are all arms and feet right outa romper room for their first few weeks, then after they work with some of the others they mention to me that they are not learning jack crap compared to the other guys. :thumbup:


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

Ink&Brass said:


> BMQ and first-year electrical regardless are two very different beasts. I was talking more garrison life. :laughing:


 Oh LOL I guess the days of being the "bee keeper" or the "satellite" are being frowned upon as "hazing". Do they still get to make sure to gravel on base doesn't get sunburned?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

daks said:


> Exactly the opposite in every respect chewy , and not power tripping there/ hippie and Maximumbob. Demonstration of the work to be performed, when they can hand the parts/tools before I need them I shows that they know what is what and how to put it together properly and in what order. A few apprentices wondered why I was a harda$$ for the tool positions and loosing them, then when they figured out WHY, they have always thanked me. Can you 3 figure out why I would do it that way? Can you figure out why those apprentices would ask to work with me time and again?


Because you shower regularly unlike the other guy? A persons nose can be an awfully powerful motivator. :laughing:


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> Because you shower regularly unlike the other guy? A persons nose can be an awfully powerful motivator. :laughing:


 Lol good point, you got me giggling for that reply, :thumbsup: yeah I shower regularly but at the end of some days I think I could knock the buzzard off the sh*twagon at 20 paces.


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## tensor0910 (Jan 16, 2014)

daks said:


> You guys forgot THE MOST IMPORTANT task of the 1st years.
> 
> Coffee and lunch runs!
> 
> When I have a new set of boots assigned to me they leave their tools in the truck and carry mine (gawd help them if they loose one or put it back in the wrong spot, they'll find out how an army sgt can rip ears off) and I call out the tools/part that I need for them to hand them to me, and better have the garbage off the floor before we walk away from that spot. When they start handing me the right tool/part before I ask, then they get to start touching actual work.


I had a Chief who took a similar approach when it came to leadership ( minus the coffee and lunch runs ). He was constantly pushing us to get our quals, and everytime we got one his response was "well why aren't you working on the next one?" I loathed him for it. But come deployment time when everyone was working 12-16 hour shifts, our shop had the least to worry about b/c of him. I never got a chance to thank him for being that unwanted push.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I've worked with a lot of dudes, merit and union, and some of them were really crappy electricians and some of then were plain assholes, but I've still never actually met someone who was enough of a pompous jackass to actually expect an apprentice to carry his tools.


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## greezy (Apr 11, 2014)

infantry?


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## tweak (Oct 3, 2010)

Learn to listen and then ask questions. I know that doesn't make a lot of sense, but I had to CW's (the IBEW's new "parallel" to apprenticeship) who were trying to get an apprenticeship. One would sit there, take notes and listen to every word you said. When I asked him any questions, he would repeat verbatim what I just told him and it would get done.
The second guy would start interrupting me, letting his wheels turn before I was even done talking. Instead of listening, he was thinking ahead and would miss 1/2 the information. 
Guess which one stuck around?


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## ButcherSlayer (Oct 4, 2013)

daks said:


> The space aliens said everyone loves my company!
> 
> For the cranial flatulent ones I'll explain the logic that these 1'st years figured out faster....
> 
> ...


I agree. Very true


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

jeromjenkins said:


> What skills should a first year apprentice be learning on the job?



Anything and everything . Your shop jobs will set the flow . My first year was all the material stocking ect. But the first pipe i was running was 4" RMC , 8 bank , and Large wire pulls . I-Line pans ect. I ran over a mile of 4" before
i ran any EMT .

Good luck .

Pete


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