# Is there a Noalox for copper-to-copper connections



## macmikeman

You are fifteen years late. There was a guy who frequented forums like Electricians Toolbox and Mike Holt way back who used to insist we needed to wire brush and apply no alox to all copper connections and if we didn't we were just miserable hacks. And of course he got into repeated long arguments with the like of Bob Badger, 480Sparky, and a bunch of other old regulars. Probably died off by now. This was the original troll and I learned a lot from him.


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## splatz

There's always T&B Kopr-Shield 

http://www-public.tnb.com/shared/inst/ta02448-tb2.pdf 

I feel like silicone dielectric grease actually helps.


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## ppsh

Penn-Union CUAL-GEL.


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## Navyguy

We use NO-OX-ID (A Special) conductive grease on our MCC blades and switches for maintenance; made by a company called Sanchem Inc.

Cheers
John


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## MDShunk

I _thought_ the ABYC required tinned copper anyhow?


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## MDShunk

Somewhat surprised nobody's mentioned Scotchkote yet. The US Navy corrosion protection and prevention technical manual specifies a coating of Dowsil 3140 RTV Silicone Conformal Coating over the connection. That stuff is like 35 bucks for a little tiny 3 ounce tube.


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## [email protected]a.edu

in my post I said we use tinned copper, but that there are times when a connection to plated steel are necessary. My experience has shown me that corrosive conditions like sea-water spray or just in a salt-air situation will cause corrosion to attack connections made with crimp fittings. That is why I am asking the forum for advice. Thank you for your reply.


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## [email protected]

Thanks. I've added ScotchKote to my list of products to try out.


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## [email protected]

Thanks for your reply. I have sen NoAlOx used in a marine setting, but since it was designed for Cu-Al connections, I wondered if there other options designed for tinned-copper to plated steel, for example. Thanks to the forum I have several products to research. Thanks to allZ!


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## [email protected]

Thanks for the reply. I have seen NoAlOx used in the marine environment with no apparent adverse effects, but since it is formulated for CuAl joints, I was wondering if there were othre formulations that would work on tinned copper to plated steel, for example. Forum members have given me several products to evaluate. Thanks to all!


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## MDShunk

[email protected] said:


> I wondered if there other options designed for tinned-copper to plated steel, for example.


That is such a rare combination of termination materials (likely to only exist on shipboard wiring), that I'm 99.99% certain that no manufacturer has specially formulated any sort of corrosion protection compound especially for that. That's what sparked me to look in the Navy manual. If something special existed, the Navy would spec it, but they don't. They want you to seal it with Dowsil. The best you can do is seal everything with an electrically safe dielectric conformal coating that can be spray or brush applied.


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## Wiresmith

Burndy's "Penetrox E" as well


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## Dennis Alwon

According to Southwire agent they recommend using noalox on all connections. Noalox is used for copper to aluminum connections as well as copper to copper. Is it required --NO.

In fact, the new aluminum conductors today do not require noalox anymore.


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## Wiresmith

Dennis Alwon said:


> According to Southwire agent they recommend using noalox on all connections. Noalox is used for copper to aluminum connections as well as copper to copper. Is it required --NO.
> 
> In fact, the new aluminum conductors today do not require noalox anymore.


installation instructions
step 5

what about the lug manufacturer? what if its a grounding lug, grounding lugs have to be listed and items required to be listed must be installed per manufacturers instructions right?


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## Wiresmith

i don't think its going to cause fires, but i'm not a minimalist when it comes to my job so i do like being a stickler on this one.


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## Dennis Alwon

Don't you think that the lug company does not have any idea that it is not required.

Sure if you use their lugs you may have to but they are saying to use noalox for all conductors. 

This is not required anymore and I suspect the manufacturer has not caught up. I doubt that most people have will have access to the brand of lug used in panelboards, etc.


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## Dennis Alwon

I never said to not use it. I said it wasn't required. We still use the noalox on aluminum.


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## Wiresmith

Dennis Alwon said:


> I never said to not use it. I said it wasn't required. We still use the noalox on aluminum.


I know, I was just trying to be a prick and say technically in some situations it is.


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## Wiresmith

Dennis Alwon said:


> Don't you think that the lug company does not have any idea that it is not required.
> 
> Sure if you use their lugs you may have to but they are saying to use noalox for all conductors.
> 
> This is not required anymore and I suspect the manufacturer has not caught up. I doubt that most people have will have access to the brand of lug used in panelboards, etc.


brand of lugs is actually one thing i tend to look at/for (for some reason i don't know, just naturally) and i will usually see ilsco or CMC used, they are labelled on the lug(usually pretty small), some lugs aren't labeled. Burndy uses there trademark symbol.

for the manufacturer not being up with the times, thats likely the case but then again consider the fact that you, me and many others still use antioxidant so some people do see value in it and maybe the lugs guys are in that group.

i like to use antioxidant on every connection it can/should be used on. i like penetrox e/kopr shield for copper to copper but i will also use the zinc based ones as well (noalox, penetrox a13, etc.). sorry i screwed with you i didn't mean to be offensive just a friendly jab.


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## splatz

Fairly sure if you bought the lug off the shelf by itself, you'd follow the lug manufacturer's directions, if it's sold as part of the panel, you follow the panel's instructions, no need to worry about the OEM of the component parts.


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## Wiresmith

splatz said:


> Fairly sure if you bought the lug off the shelf by itself, you'd follow the lug manufacturer's directions, if it's sold as part of the panel, you follow the panel's instructions, no need to worry about the OEM of the component parts.


i don't come to that conclusion. that panel is not listed as a grounding connector. and just looking at it from a common sense point of view if the manufacturers instructions do not conflict i think the more stringent requirement would be the requirement.

i'm curious if an equipment manufacturer provides instructions on how to terminate a wire in a connector they didn't manufacture, besides a torque value i do not recall any


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## MechanicalDVR

Always used Dow Silicone RTV myself.


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## matt1124

Navyguy said:


> We use NO-OX-ID (A Special) conductive grease on our MCC blades and switches for maintenance; made by a company called Sanchem Inc.
> 
> Cheers
> John


This is the same goop that comes on the prongs of Eaton and Sq. D breakers.


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## macmikeman

For copper wire connections, swimming pools are way way worse on connections than salt water air or splashing. I always figure that the Navy guys would notice that when checking the wiring for the ship's swimming pools. You do get lots of swimming pools on Navy ships right? You don't? Well hell, then how do the sailors in the Navy cool off?


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## Wiresmith

matt1124 said:


> This is the same goop that comes on the prongs of Eaton and Sq. D breakers.


interesting, it looks like stl8 which says not for electrical contacts. i remember seeing similar looking grease on stabs, usually on disconnects its red grease i see.


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## AK_sparky

What about just coating the connection in dielectric grease after it is tightened down? I would think that would keep the salt/water/chlorine off of it and wouldn't cause any corrosion issues.


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## paulengr

Noalox is a brand. A competitor is Penetrox. It’s like saying Hubbell connector...it doesn’t mean anything.

It’s called electrical joint compound. Noalox and Penetrox and.a few others make it. It has to be used under the base of power semiconductors like SCRs. I also use it to treat wiring in sewage plants to slow down and clean off the sulfides and give some protection. There are two versions. The heat sink compound version has zinc oxide particles that are semiconductors while the grit free version doesn’t. Use the grit version on heat sinks and grit free on conductors. Some sewer plants also use the liquid electrical tape as a further seal against corrosion. You can use aluminum Noalox either way. It’s just not the same as electrical joint compound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## readydave8

paulengr said:


> Noalox is a brand. A competitor is Penetrox. It’s like saying Hubbell connector...it doesn’t mean anything.
> 
> It’s called electrical joint compound.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah but ask helper to get "electrical joint compound" from truck will make you wish you had said Noalox, whichever brand you got:wink:


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## paulengr

Wiresmith said:


> interesting, it looks like stl8 which says not for electrical contacts. i remember seeing similar looking grease on stabs, usually on disconnects its red grease i see.



Nope, that's different. Red grease is Mobil 28.


https://www.netaworld.org/sites/default/files/public/neta-journals/NWsu07-White.pdf


That's specifically made to grease the stabs on breakers. They tend to goop it all over just about everything in a breaker though. Specs call for graphite lube on sliding surfaces and newer breakers use Molykote 3451. Where Mobil 28 is around $15 for a tube, Molykote is around $150+ per tube! Molykote is used on the operating mechanisms on newer circuit breakers because Mobil 28 dries out in about 3-5 years where so far third party testing has Molykote at 8-10+ years without any problems drying out. So I use the red grease on the stabs where it doesn't matter because it only gets used once (when I'm putting it back in) and the Molykote everywhere else...you only ever use a few drops per breaker anyways.


The Mobil 28 basically gets pushed out of the way when the fingers on the stabs engage the bus bar in the cell and that's all the grease helps lubricate as opposed to sliding on a dry surface. After that the Mobil 28 (goop on liberally!) is really just a corrosion inhibitor.


If you see blue grease that's Polyrex EM. It is pretty much the industry standard for motor greases. It's not right for circuit breakers but I see it once in a while.


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