# Electrical fire. Home completely destroyed.



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

They don't know for sure yet, but I am sure they will say it was electrical. At least that is my fear.


I would like some advice. 

I don't like this at all, but I would like some from anyone who has experience in this sort of thing.

A home that I wired while I was working for my previous employer 8 years ago has burned. To make matters worse, I sat in my kitchen this afternoon and watched it. I heard the fire scanner go off and recognized the address, looked out the window, and my heart stopped. Then I realized they paged the wrong fire dept. (i live in country close to township lines) As I picked up the phone to dial 911 to tell themm to page the right one, they did. By the time the tankers got there, It was gone. FULLY ENVOLVED.

I have never had a project catch fire, *or burn down* for that matter.
Needless to say I am a little freaked out. Since it was eight years ago could it be something WE did?? 

Another couple of points:

1. There was a sufficient lightning storm an hour before this.

2. This is not the first fire these particular homeowners have had.
Their previous double wide burned down as well. This current home was stick frame. Homeline panel 

after the fire a buddy of mine (who was near the scene when the fire trucks arrived) called me, and said he thought it started in the attic. Of course he said they think it might have been electrical.

The people were home, and no one was hurt.


I have wired over 500 homes in the past 10 years, and no problems. Not hardly any call backs on new construction.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I know you feel bad, but think about how many opportunities a Hack or the homeowner had over those 8 years to screw something up.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Of course it was electrical. That's the only reason fire departments have found that burns down houses. :whistling2:


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I know you feel bad, but think about how many opportunities a Hack or the homeowner had over those 8 years to screw something up.


 
True, I need to add this... I have been back there in past years to fix minor things such as adding their garage/ hot tub/ security cameras. 
But everything was done to CODE.

to make matters worse, I know these folks fairly well(id' like to think so anyway..) and I don't think they would attempt any electrical without calling me.
PLUS she is extremely paranoid of fires since their last one went up in flames. and I have tried to re-assure her everything was done right. SO, See I am a little freaked out.


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Of course it was electrical. That's the only reason fire departments have found that burns down houses. :whistling2:


 
This is my worry!


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I use to worry also but after the 3rd house of mine burned I stopped worrying.  Yes, it is true but every one was attributed to other factors. One was a candle, another was wood stove and the third was a charger in the garage. These all happened in the last 3 years and the houses where 12- 20 years old. I am rewiring 2 of the 3. The 3rd one is not being rebuilt.


----------



## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Mabye this will mke you feel a bit better. Put in a new garage door for a firefighter once upon a time. Panel was in garage and there was a fire from the wiring above the panel. Sheetrockers put a screw in one of the wires... years later, a fire... electrical but not necessarily an electrician fault. Something like this can easily be someone elses lack of care.


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I use to worry also but after the 3rd house of mine burned I stopped worrying.  Yes, it is true but every one was attributed to other factors. One was a candle, another was wood stove and the third was a charger in the garage. These all happened in the last 3 years and the houses where 12- 20 years old. I am rewiring 2 of the 3. The 3rd one is not being rebuilt.


 
I can only hope this will go this way.

I have been reading this in the meantime... sorta puttin me at ease
http://www.waltersforensic.com/fire/vol5-no2.html

going through this home's floor plan in my head.

breakers were all sized correctly......
smoke alarms functional......
evrything we installed was rated at or above specs....
no backstabs used.....

I am calming down.


----------



## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

First off also being a firefighter it at this point is impossible for your friend to know this. You state when the firefighters arrived on scene the house was fully engulfed already which means they probably went with an exterior attack. Wait on the arson investigators to rule the cause of the fire, if they can at all. I wouldn't believe something you did 8yrs ago caused this. You say there was a lighting storm at the time, and they believe it starting in the attic, i personally would lean more towards the house having been struck by lighting.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

this link is about house fires..

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/citizens/all_citizens/home_fire_prev/electrical.shtm


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

There's hardly a full CSI type investigation for a house fire anyhow if nobody gets hurt. I've rewired many a fire job where the cause was "undetermined", only to discover the real cause during the renovation. One was an indoor wood furnace with the high limit jumped out by someone. Another started in the mulch next to the garage, and was assumed to be errant disposal of smoking materials. I discovered a shorted out UF cable to a post light fed off the main lugs in teh garage panel, buried just under the mulch char.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Hmmm... No offense to my Hebrew friends, but we have a saying around here:

"Jewish lightning"


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

the more I think about it, it had to be lightning. We had some really loud strikes closeby. The only thing is that it was an hour before the fire.

I am trying to find the website that records lightening strikes.?


----------



## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Wired a new construction house a couple of years ago where the owners existing house burned down due to a rodent chewing up some Romex in the attic. A a week or two before getting the final inspection on his house, his tobacco barn burned down which sat about 300' from his new house. Needless to say he has around 16 smoke detectors in the house (6,400 sq. ft.)


----------



## lectro88 (Jul 13, 2009)

As Marc said, its hardly a CSI case. No one was hurt. Chill a little, you have an abundance of quality jobs under your belt, yes I'd be freaking a little too. Reasonable doubt are the key words, beyond a reasonable doubt. This is what has to be proven. Now if they were having trouble with circuit and you jacked the OCP up, worry. You said you did code work, or better. Keep us informed bro. And best of luck ! :thumbsup: 

How many fires are known to be the fault of the electrician during the time of this forum over the years ?


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

I went up and talked with the fire chief this evening. After giving me some $hit about the fire being an electrical fire,....(another friend of mine) He said it was a BIG ELECTRICAL fire started by 60,000,000 volts.....the way it looks and the way it burned, he thinks it was a lightning strike. The investigator will be there on Monday morning to verify. We will see. The fire burned very hot in the attic first and when the homeowner opened the back door it found it's oxygen source and POOF.. the attic fire got the fuel it needed to BURN and it only took a few minutes to burn it down. I haven't talked to my neighbors yet. I am not sure if I should till things cool off. Literally.


----------



## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

glad to hear it sounds like some relief from mental anguish for you.


----------



## Safety-Guy (Jan 22, 2007)

Well Lightning is Electrical. 

I would also not have been worried as there had been 8 years since the work was done, More than ample time for a homeowner to play electrician.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> this link is about house fires..
> 
> http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/citizens/all_citizens/home_fire_prev/electrical.shtm


Don't mean to threadjack but thank you very much for that link. Great information to be had there especially since that's what my business is aimed at doing - preventing fires caused by shoddy electrical work, and service. 


Sorry to hear about this unfortunate fire. It was probably the lightning.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Don't mean to threadjack but thank you very much for that link. Great information to be had there especially since that's what my business is aimed at doing - preventing fires caused by shoddy electrical work, and service.


There was a user on here a short while ago that had the name 'forensic sparky' or something like that. He left in a huff, but you might see if you can PM him or email him for some information. I forget if he said he worked for the government in some way or for insurance companies.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> There was a user on here a short while ago that had the name 'forensic sparky' or something like that. He left in a huff, but you might see if you can PM him or email him for some information. I forget if he said he worked for the government in some way or for insurance companies.


He could try that route, but I doubt "forensic sparky" will be forthcoming with much information. :laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> There was a user on here a short while ago that had the name 'forensic sparky' or something like that. He left in a huff, but you might see if you can PM him or email him for some information. I forget if he said he worked for the government in some way or for insurance companies.


 
http://www.electriciantalk.com/members/forensic-sparky-7680/

he was not very helpful, but maybe he got over the PMS


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm good with that link but thanks anyway. No sense ruffling feathers, guy might think I'm nuts or something.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

He has not been on since 7/5.. he had a "problem" answering questions


----------



## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

I did a rebuild on a fire job, (paint booth) The first guy on the scene said "Look it must have been caused by electrical, half the breakers are tripped.." Hmmm 

Nothing like pulling nice sooty conduit full of melted wire off a ceiling in the middle of summer..
The owner thought we could just pull the old wire out and replace it.. 


BTW The fire Marshall ruled spontaneous combustion from the rag bin beside the booth.


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

Still no word yet from the fire inspector. Talked w chief again today, this sure is taking a while....:no:


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

Update:

Ok here's what I know so far. The fire started in the kitchen. Now the question is where/ and what caused it. The insurance inspector is on the scene today.


I recieved a phone call this afternoon from the HOMEOWNER of all people. She was wanting to know if I knew where to find my old boss. 

The company I used to work for is now bankrupt. She said the insurance inspector was wanting to talk to him. 

I told her how sorry I felt for her and her family, and asked if there was anything they needed or if I could do anything for them. 

_(note they live just up the road and she was my babysitter when I was a kid...)irrellevant to the fire situation, BUT _


She didn't act like she wanted to discuss any details with me, or talk for that matter. 

Now my wheels are really turning again.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

So this is a house you helped wire but was not the license on the permit? I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt they can come after you. Besides how could they ever prove what particular person was responsible.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

they can say what they want, but fires that start in the kitchen usually have help from (other than electrical) sources (imo) you said it started in the afternoon, would that have been about dinner time ?


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> So this is a house you helped wire but was not the license on the permit? I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt they can come after you. Besides how could they ever prove what particular person was responsible.


Permit? HA!........

I guess I should have mentioned I live in one of the 89 counties in Indiana that don't have a building department. There is no STATE lisence for Electricians.

*I *do however hold a Master's Lisence out of one of the three.

My old employer had an Arizona state Journeyman's lisence. 
at least that is what we were all told.....

The (LATER ADDED) detached garage of theirs, and their Jacuzzi *are still there*. _undamaged.:thumbsup:_ Those are the only items I wired myself. (side jobs) 

The home itself I can not take the blame totally, because of other examples others on here have said, and the fact that I was on a crew of 3 when house was origionally wired. 

Thanks everybody for the info, re-assurances, etc.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Dude, don't sweat this - the chances of anyone having an electrical fire TWICE are abut 1 in 34 million. Go back and read InPhase277's post...


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Two things stand out to me.

1. There previous home burned down as well.

2. The fire started in the attic.

How many people have TWO house catch fire?

Attic fires are started by open splices, not stock wiring.


I would want to go sift thru the rubble and take a look for myself. I'd look for a ceiling fane that was not there when I wired it. HO's are notorious for grabbing a cable in the sttic to power a CF.



Edit because I didn't read the whole thread before posting.



> My old employer had an Arizona state Journeyman's lisence.


AZ doesn't licence Journeymen, only Contractors.

I'd want to have a look for myself. 

I would HAVE to have a look for myself. 

We used to do some work for a fire restoation company and it was interesting to see the damage right after a fire. If you look closely, you can tell a lot. If the fire appears to have started at a recep, look closely and see if there was something plugged into it (or removed after the fire)


And this was not Jewish lightning, it was ******* (doublewide) lightning


----------



## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

OK! my official investigation. DONE BY ME.


The exact location was roped off with crime scene tape.:blink:

BUT! I went through the entire structure of what was left. The fire investigators narrowed it to the kitchen microwave above the stove. The way we wired this is to put a 20 amp receptacle in the cabinet above it. It was on it's own 20 amp breaker. and it was on a multiwire branch circuit. my official expert opinion. the microwave started the fire. 

(perhaps it is why the insurance investigator took it with him.) 


My neighbors called this morning and told me that they weren't blaming the electrician for the fire. (sigh of relief...didn't want that gossip spread..) they told me to come by they wanted to talk to me.

They later said the insurance guy put my old employer, the general contractor, the manufacturerof the receptacle the cord was plugged into, and the microwave manufacturer on notice for this fire. (guessing that is standard insurance speak...)

I had a very good talk with them. Needless to say they are very somber.

They said lightning was ruled out by investigator. It was most likely the appliance.

in a way it was neat to see how this fire went, but I would not wish it on anyone..

going to look at this thing was very sad, especially when their little girl came out just to say hi to me... They lost EVERYTHING. 


the good part was this was very relieving to my mind.:thumbsup:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

If the cabinets had backs, I hope you used a cut in box or plastic extenders 

I would like to have seen the micro cord.

I remember one installation where the cord came out the top of the micro and, unless the hole was drilled in the exact spot, the cord would have been pinched pretty bad between the micro and the cabinet bottom.


----------

