# Floor Heat Broken Under Tile



## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

Had an ugly situation today with electric floor heat. I went by the house of one of my clients last week to get a quick look at the floor heat mats installed by the tile guys before they covered them up. They are 2 rolls (3' x 30' each) that were laid out and set in a thin layer of thinset. The tile guy had installed the continuity alarm thing on the ends of the leads of both mats and it had a green light. Both of the mats were hooked-up in parallel to the thing instead of in series. It didn't even occur to me at the time that this was not the right way to do it. Anyway, I got the ends to where they needed to be and put my ohm meter on each one separately. Both were exactly the same resistance, very close to what the manufacturer said they should be. I re-connected the continuity tester alarm the same way it was when I got there and told the tile guy to keep checking it. (you probably know where I'm going with this!) Today, I go by to run the 240 volt circuit. I was getting ready to make the connections when I decided to re-check the resistance. The first checked out normal. The second had no resistance, period! Nothing between either of the hots or to the braided ground! The cable was cut clean somewhere under the floor. Since the continuity tester was hooked to both mats in parallel, this problem was not noticed by the tester. Anyway, here's where I need to draw on the collective experiences of all of you. How is the best way to find this clean break? I had my Amprobe CT-100 circuit tester hooked up to it in all possible combinations.

http://amprobe.com/cgi-bin/pdc/viewprod.cgi?pid=274&tid=1&type=elec

I was hoping to locate the break easily. It had a full strength signal at first, but as the resistance got higher in the element, it got weaker and weaker. Has anybody had any luck with any other type of tracer? Here's the type of heat rolls/mats that were used.

http://www.laticretefloorwarming.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds6050.pdf

Thanks in advance!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

5KV megger and IR, works. SERIOUS, that's how the manufactures of some heat recommend finding breaks.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

You might try a tel data test tool that measures the length of the cable.
here's a link..http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/idevdv.html


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Hook the tracer to the braided ground not the element. I would cut the section of tile out over the faulty mat and replace it. Send the tile guy a bill or the GC a bill and call it a day.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

tates1882 said:


> Hook the tracer to the braided ground not the element. I would cut the section of tile out over the faulty mat and replace it. Send the tile guy a bill or the GC a bill and call it a day.



All well and good,I guess.
I have never dealt with it.
How would one repair the heat mesh?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Contact the manufacturer for repair instructions. Most will have a tool you can rent to find the fault. Don't expect miracles in getting the tool... there's usually a waiting list to get it. Oh, and it will cost money to rent it, too.


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

we had a situation where the shower door guys ran a 3 inch screw through the tile and into the plywood and broke our wire. when we pulled the screw out the short went away. Busted up 3 tiles to get to the culprit. We tried a tester right from the dealer we bought it from but it never really seemed to help out


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Don't know personally, but I have heard that if you put a megger on 5KV and the heat panels are in the ceiling, after a little bit the sheetrock will blow out where the break is. just look for the broken area. 
I agree with Brian John, use IR and it will be the fastest way in a floor.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If there were two floor mats they may be designed to be hooked in parallel. I am not sure where the series hookup comes from. I would not do a series hookup unless the manufacture says to do it that way. I have only seen them hooked in parallel but generally it is one mat.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If there were two floor mats they may be designed to be hooked in parallel. I am not sure where the series hookup comes from. I would not do a series hookup unless the manufacture says to do it that way. I have only seen them hooked in parallel but generally it is one mat.


Hi Dennis, the tester/alarm is what hooks up in series during the install. Not the live feed. This way the alarm sounds if one mat is cut clean. The way it was, (in parallel) the tester would have detected a short in either mat, but since it was a clean break, it was still reading OK through the good mat.

http://www.laticretefloorwarming.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds6040.pdf

This is actually a great tool! Even if I had it hooked-up right, they wouldn't have known because when I got there that day, the batteries were dead from them leaving it on overnight!

Thanks for everybody's ideas & suggestions. The homeowner has ordered the patch kit from the manufacturer and info on some kind of tester that can tell how far down the actual cable the break is. From there, we have a pretty good idea of how the mats were laid-out. Also, the tile guy removed a few of the stones (like mini pavers patterned on mesh) and replaced them with different ones. I'm sure that's when this happened. He was supposed to go out there today to show her which stones he replaced. That will be a big help.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Oh good. I thought you had the mats in series. Gotcha now.


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## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

It seems like the tile guy hooked up the tool incorrectly, so I hope it is not on you to save this one. If they are paying you, I would just call the manufacturer and bill them for the phone call, the rental, the drive, etc. and tell them to consult an electrician on the next tile hook-up.


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