# Meter close to window



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Is having a meter very close to a window a problem ? I'm getting ready to do a 200 Amp upgrade in which I need to install a meter disco ....space is very limited , I will be removing the window shutter.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

WronGun said:


> Is having a meter very close to a window a problem ? I'm getting ready to do a 200 Amp upgrade in which I need to install a meter disco ....space is very limited , I will be removing the window shutter.















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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Ok , I'm simply updating the post to add pictures , but instead it's adding a whole new post to the thread ?!








WronGun said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Another tight panel area










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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Nice work light! :jester:
P&L


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I put meters at eye height. Maj must have installed that one.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

99cents said:


> I put meters at eye height. Maj must have installed that one.


Hey, it passed when I did it! Not my fault you're so damn tall!


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

WronGun said:


> Ok , I'm simply updating the post to add pictures , but instead it's adding a whole new post to the thread ?!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


INRE the OP photo: The other face of the corner is impractical ?


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

I think you're good. 230.9(A) (the three foot rule) only addresses service conductors _without_ an overall outer jacket, so the SE is OK. I don't know of any restrictions to the meter clearance to the window if there are any.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

"Hello? Yes 9-1-1? Yes I'd like to report a peeping Tom, he comes by every month around the 15th about noon... I can see him through the window"


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

And then ofcourse there are the terminations and they look pretty close to the window 


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Doesn't look like you have many choices.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

You city guys have it rough. Out here in the boonies we leave the meter on the pole and trench to the house.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

WronGun said:


> And then ofcourse there are the terminations and they look pretty close to the window
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I love the way the spouting also drains into the window. :no:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Your install is compliant IMO


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## Rodger (Jan 3, 2017)

The meter looks odd down there but compliant IMO. But how picky are your inspecors about clearance around panels? I see several things that would not fly with the inspectors around here in that photo.

The control box under the panel would be considered encroaching. The built in shelf under the other panel would be considered encroaching. And WTH!?!, is that a water pipe running across the face of the older panel?


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## inetdog (Apr 13, 2016)

That or a clothes pole?

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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

After talking with Poco we realized a few clearances are off on this service. They sent an engineer out , and he mentioned 2 1/2" rigid going straight up 3-4' above the roof line with a mast ! Ahhhh ... I've never done a mast before and I'm sure it's going to require me re-estimating the job


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

WronGun said:


> After talking with Poco we realized a few clearances are off on this service. They sent an engineer out , and he mentioned 2 1/2" rigid going straight up 3-4' above the roof line with a mast ! Ahhhh ... I've never done a mast before and I'm sure it's going to require me re-estimating the job
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Every Poco has a 'standards book' for Services.

Out here it's termed the 'Green Book.' (PG&E)

You need to get its equivalent stuffed into your library,* yesterday.*


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> Every Poco has a 'standards book' for Services.
> 
> Out here it's termed the 'Green Book.' (PG&E)
> 
> You need to get its equivalent stuffed into your library,* yesterday.*


Many are available online.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I have a printed copy.. when I call poco for work authorization , we go over the most important clearances and rules regarding services , this one was questionable, that's why an engineer came out


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This mast service will be easy because you don't have to penetrate and seal a roof.

Just buy 2 pieces of rigid, thread them together, then cut it to length. Now you can buy a compression weatherhead so that you don't have to thread the end of the pipe. Thread the pipe on top of the meter and you're done. It will be nice and easy.

I would throw a guy wire on it for good measure.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Ya I've spent some time online last night and this is also what I came up with because at this point I don't own a threader...3 months ago when I started full time I thought I had a lot , since then a pretty decent percentage of profit has gone back into the business (tools, overhead stock, and advertising) 

It looks like a weird roof angle for the mast wire supports but I suppose it can be done.. already contacted the client , this service is getting real expensive. 


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

How does your customer feel about the re-estimate? If it was me, I would do the job at the quoted price. It isn't the customer's fault that you missed something.

Normally, when doing a service change, you have to comply with code, municipal regulations and utility regulations. Here, I can phone the utility and they can often figure things out from the office simply based on address. If there are bigger questions, then they send out a field guy.

Telsa's right, the utility metering guides are something you need to have in your back pocket.

I'm not bashing you because you're new at this. Living up to a quote is good business and we have all had to eat it during the learning process in the interests of customer goodwill.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

99cents said:


> How does your customer feel about the re-estimate? If it was me, I would do the job at the quoted price. It isn't the customer's fault that you missed something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree with you , in the estimate email I did explain to her I will need to verify a few things with the town inspector and national grid....she also understands an engineer came out to authorize our plan that didn't get approved.... still .. I do need to get familiar with the poco codes.... 


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> How does your customer feel about the re-estimate? If it was me, I would do the job at the quoted price. It isn't the customer's fault that you missed something.
> 
> Normally, when doing a service change, you have to comply with code, municipal regulations and utility regulations. Here, I can phone the utility and they can often figure things out from the office simply based on address. If there are bigger questions, then they send out a field guy.
> 
> ...


Due to the fact he was just up grading the service I don't think it was unreasonable to make the original quote based on the fact the poco connected to the existing service in the manner it currently stands. 

Myself I'd have figured for a mast just to avoid the proximity to the window and have a nice straight shot. I'm also not a fan of SER cable.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Another thing I didn't account for was the grade the driveway sits on.... at the service it meets height requirements, its lower at the the start of the driveway.... this whole setup is strange , from what I understand POCO is changing the wire from the street , raising it higher, changing the POA, and doing the disconnect and reconnect the day of my service change... even the engineer seemed puzzled about the whole thing over the phone 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

In this exact situation, in which the work hasn't started and the Power Company has specific requirements for this house, I would have no problem changing the estimate.

I have done it at least 3 times and each time the customer completely understood and went ahead with the new estimate.



99cents said:


> Here, I can phone the utility and they can often figure things out from the office simply based on address. If there are bigger questions, then they send out a field guy.


It's a lot different here. For me to talk to a wiring inspector it will take a minimum of 5 phone calls and 45 minutes of wait time. Then once I get the wiring inspector, who is often a decent guy, I will be told how they can't use email so I can't send pictures and write-ups. I will have to go out to the jobsite and meet with him. 

On a little bit of a different note, I had a house in which I wasn't sure if it would require a mast or not, it was right at the height between the requirement. The customer wanted an estimate, so I did my 50 minutes of chasing the wiring inspector and waiting on the phone, I then went out to the job with him to look at it. He said I could attach it to the soffit, which was good because it would be cheaper for the customer. But after telling the customer that, he said he was still unsure 

And then a couple months later I drive by to see a new service on the house 

So I spent around 2.5 hours on that estimate, doing all the legwork with the PoCo, and some other contractor came in undercutting me and got the job.

That was one of my New Year's business resolutions. In situations like that, I will require a deposit before doing the legwork required to give an accurate estimate.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> In this exact situation, in which the work hasn't started and the Power Company has specific requirements for this house, I would have no problem changing the estimate.
> 
> I have done it at least 3 times and each time the customer completely understood and went ahead with the new estimate.
> 
> ...


We do live in different worlds, Hack.


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## west shore electric (Sep 30, 2015)

As long as the drip loop is above the window you're fine. Put a new house knob and have the Poco move the drop.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Can you get fined or in trouble by poco?? Reason I ask is because of this situation on this job I need to be scheduled on same day as poco... because they can't get Scheduled fast enough and this client is in dire need of a new service ... things are overheating and the main is tripping a few times per day , I was going to do my service and rub my drip loop with extra slack to the existing POA... then they can come move it as soon as they can.... anyone have any input on this ?


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

WronGun said:


> Can you get fined or in trouble by poco?? Reason I ask is because of this situation on this job I need to be scheduled on same day as poco... because they can't get Scheduled fast enough and this client is in dire need of a new service ... things are overheating and the main is tripping a few times per day , I was going to do my service and rub my drip loop with extra slack to the existing POA... then they can come move it as soon as they can.... anyone have any input on this ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That all depends where you are and who your poco is.
I have a contractor number issued by the poco in my area. Took a one day class provided by them on safety and their specs many years ago. That said I get the inspector out there the same day to send in the cut card with a poco work order number while I permanently make crimp splices.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

WronGun said:


> Can you get fined or in trouble by poco?? Reason I ask is because of this situation on this job I need to be scheduled on same day as poco... because they can't get Scheduled fast enough and this client is in dire need of a new service ... things are overheating and the main is tripping a few times per day , I was going to do my service and rub my drip loop with extra slack to the existing POA... then they can come move it as soon as they can.... anyone have any input on this ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you not do a temporary drop to a new larger panel? What are they using that is causing the overload?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

WronGun said:


> Can you get fined or in trouble by poco?? Reason I ask is because of this situation on this job I need to be scheduled on same day as poco... because they can't get Scheduled fast enough and this client is in dire need of a new service ... things are overheating and the main is tripping a few times per day , I was going to do my service and rub my drip loop with extra slack to the existing POA... then they can come move it as soon as they can.... anyone have any input on this ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm curious, what has changed in this residence that has so suddenly put the existing service over the edge?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I'm curious, what has changed in this residence that has so suddenly put the existing service over the edge?




This was part of the reason for getting the upgrade, they can't seem to use any high draw appliances..I think I will just leave a big loop to make the connection and trim it later when they move the POA

poco wants the service done in rigid up from the meter , I'm assuming they would want below the meter also in rigid.. problem is it's a finished basement with the panel 25' away, so I can't run pipe the whole way , Am I supposed to change-over when I get into the house at the LB? This is a learning experience for me , I got lots of questions on this service










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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

There should be someone at the PoCo to talk to about this. 

If that were here, I would do the work and run a temp cable from the new weatherhead to the existing POA. I've done that a few times when I had to move the service from one side of the house to the other, just ran a cable across the front of the house like the wiring inspector told me to. 

He said to use #8 copper romex so I used #6 aluminum (I'm cheap). But if this house you are working on has such a high draw, I would use thicker wire.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> There should be someone at the PoCo to talk to about this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Existing poa is 3' away so just a big drip loop for now. How would go out the bottom though ?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

3' away is nothing, I will often move the new POA hook that I install that much just to get the new line higher and away from a tree or something.

What's the problem at the bottom?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Poco wants rigid , I'm assuming the whole thing because it's in a driveway, I could be wrong though..

Panel is 25' going through a finished basement .. I can get SER through the wall no problem , but can I sleeve the SER in 2.5" rigid with An LB Or is there a change-over? 


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> This was part of the reason for getting the upgrade, they can't seem to use any high draw appliances..I think I will just leave a big loop to make the connection and trim it later when they move the POA
> 
> poco wants the service done in rigid up from the meter , I'm assuming they would want below the meter also in rigid.. problem is it's a finished basement with the  panel 25' away, so I can't run pipe the whole way , Am I supposed to change-over when I get into the house at the LB? This is a learning experience for me , I got lots of questions on this service
> 
> ...


I wrote a underline .,,

I just want to make sure .,, did ya say about 25 feet of se cable inside the basement ? 

If so that will change the game on that. 

Other than that .,,

I would just run the mast and double guyed or use peice of 3/4 EMT and flatten each end to act like guy support. 

I have done that simauir to that house style before.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I actually got cables already... the white molding just below the shingles will probably screw Me...I suppose I can trim that out...

I'm sorry I'm not sure what you meant about did I say 25' of SE through the basement 


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***Edit that ... no I can't trim that out, it's not gonna look good and I don't want mess with the roof, but it certainly looks like it's gonna screw me.... I'm gonna push this job out a week .... i have more planning to do, it was scheduled this Saturday ... but with all the poco changes and my lack of experience with this style Service , seems I need to plan more


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Wrongun.,,

I did see what you are saying on that.

I did see the posting you will put a SER cable in the basement but there is other way you can run it outside then go straight in the basement ? that will shorten the run of unfused SE cable inside the resdentail. 

If you going to use the SER cable then you will need combo meter socket. that will affect the way it will place the meter socket combo due the combo is larger than standard 200 A socket is. 

If it was over 18 feet of POA you should have no issue with overhead clearnance as long it do meet the POCO regualation. 

The other option is use the strut channel to space it out and run the mast staight shot up as I described above and use guy wire to backguyed because the distance from the POA at the house to the POCO pole. ( yes you can use the emt tube as guy brace )


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> Wrongun.,,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The really is no other way but 25' underground and around the front steps.

The meter socket is a 200A millbank disconnect 

Strut is possible but it seems I would need to jump out almost 2.5" to get around the roof trims and the hub at the meter doesn't allow this...any slight variable is gonna make for a very crooked mast 

I've spent alot of time analyzing this whole job before I jump in, lately I've been tackling everything because I like the challenge and want the experience..this one making my head spin though. 

So I'm left with those 2 issues... 

How do I work the bottom end of meter using large SER (piping whole way not possible) (I will ask if using a rigid sleeve and LB is allowed, and this would have to be 2.5" to accommodate the SER bend radius and even then it will be a challenge getting around the LB

How do I get around the roof trim using 2.5" Rigid 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I always sleeve SE cable so I don't see why you can't sleeve SER.

You can find someone with a bender and bend an offset in the mast to get around the trim.

Also, the meter hub can often be put on in the other direction to keep the pipe further away from the wall. But 2.5" might not be much of a difference.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> The really is no other way but 25' underground and around the front steps.
> 
> Ahh gotcha.,,
> 
> ...


Hackwork give you a very simple direct answer on that. 

I would do the same thing as he suggest on that. 

a simple offset rigid kick will do the trick. if you know someone have big bender otherwise the muffer shop can help you on that if their bender do have enough power to bend it.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> Hackwork give you a very simple direct answer on that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes I will be looking around for a bender , thanks 


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Instead of editing my recent posting and want to let ya know there is only one qurik is the rigid conduits above meter socket just pay attetion to the sections of conduit or pipe above meter socket is keep long part on top side if you can.

Because the coupling is a weak spot there so make sure you backguyed it good.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

After finalizing a few things with the town Inspector they do want me to sleeve the bottom feeder as long as I get a connector on the inside portion....

On top of that he wants a Bollard installed in front of the meter ! Which will block the garage entrance ! 

I'm lost for words , I didn't even call the client today because I don't want to give her more changed news.. this has been a total 5hitshow... meanwhile all the stock is sitting in her garage.... 

I don't even know what to say ... a yellow pole blocking the garage entrance ! Real nice 

We will have to move this massive mast smack in front of her house 10' away from the front door to avoid all this , and she was upset about the mast on the side of the house 

The first time I went to look at this job they asked I that I please don't run away.... I'm starting to think others already did 


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Instead of editing my recent posting and want to let ya know there is only one qurik is the rigid conduits above meter socket just pay attetion to the sections of conduit or pipe above meter socket is *keep long part on top side if you can.
> *
> Because the coupling is a weak spot there so make sure you backguyed it good.


This is a great point to bring up, sometimes you do things one way so long you don't think to mention items like that to someone who hasn't.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> This is a great point to bring up, sometimes you do things one way so long you don't think to mention items like that to someone who hasn't.




Definitely a great point , Since I'm running around looking for a bender I probably would of done it the other way 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What about relocating the meter to the other side of the house? I have done that a few times. You were already planning on using an outside disco and SER cable.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> What about relocating the meter to the other side of the house? I have done that a few times. You were already planning on using an outside disco and SER cable.




It's an extremely strange setup ... the house has a driveway that's a 1/4mi long and has all different grades !! They have a pole right in the center of their front/side yard to accommodate this. I've never seen a pole right in the middle of someone's yard ...The service lines are coming in straight to the meter from the side of the house. To move the wires to the other side they would have to span the whole length of this very wide home , poco would never do that regardless. 


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> It's an extremely strange setup ... the house has a driveway that's a 1/4mi long and has all different grades !! They have a pole right in the center of their front/side yard to accommodate this. I've never seen a pole right in the middle of someone's yard ...The service lines are coming in straight to the meter from the side of the house. To move the wires to the other side they would have to span the whole length of this very wide home , poco would never do that regardless.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I dont know if I am little late on this but I been wondering there is other option is run the lateral ( underground cable ) from the post to corner of the house?

as far for bollard .,, Just use the 4 inch rigid conduit and fill cement inside of that pipe and just stick it far enough where the distance from the meter socket to end of the meter itself so it should be about 12 to 16 inches from the wall. 

One possiblity is that on the garage wall why not move that meter socket to that location and run the ser cable from there ?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> I dont know if I am little late on this but I been wondering there is other option is run the lateral ( underground cable ) from the post to corner of the house?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good ideas , not sure if they will work... I am going back to the residence to look at other ideas. I am going to post some pictures using my real camera from far back on the property.. I think this is an interesting situation some of you would like to see since it has a number of people puzzled.. I've been using photos to analyze everything about this job....will report back 

I could walk away from this but it's not something I want to do , I want this challenge and learning experience... 

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

In the meantime, you can change the panel out to an MLO panel. This will stop their issue with the main in the current panel tripping all the time.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

WronGun said:


> After finalizing a few things with the town Inspector they do want me to sleeve the bottom feeder as long as I get a connector on the inside portion....
> 
> On top of that he wants a Bollard installed in front of the meter ! Which will block the garage entrance !
> 
> ...


The only alternative is to go with an underground service. If the meter close to the front door upsets them, show them some pictures of ChickenSteve and MDShunk's services...


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

So here are the pictures... the customer agreed to a bollard in front of the meter ... so everything is in line for the job now , I just need to get an offset on this 2 1/2" rigid pipe and I'm good to go , also will need to properly support the Bollard , being on asphalt a simple bolt down won't work 










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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

What about the left outside wall of the garage with a meter/disco, then SER through to garage into the basement?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

It's possible , would require a very tall mast and problem 45' of SER , but I think we are all good to go now 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I managed to get the bend , but I drove by this building today and saw the same install using the strut method and I almost think this Would be better 



















Now I need to figure out what would look better .... I feel if I strap the rigid to the house with 2-hole straps it may not sit right 


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