# Combination vs. speed square



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Are we electricians or are we carpenters ? :laughing:


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## Palm (Jun 27, 2016)




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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Palm said:


> Between a 6" combo square and a 7" speed square, which is better and for what instances?


I've been an electrician for over 35 years and I do not know what you are talking about, I don't think I have ever used either one.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

Usually the combo square is what I reach for. When I worked as an employee doing commercial work and kept a toolbox on site, I would keep the longer (18" I think) combo square for laying out j boxes and such.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

I'd use a speed square for cutting gutter boxes etc..and strut. 
I had a combo square when I started out and forgot what I used it for ..maybe hanging strut racks.
A regular square is good for reflective ceiling layout and racks

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## zac (May 11, 2009)

zac said:


> I'd use a speed square for cutting gutter boxes etc..and strut.
> I had a combo square when I started out and forgot what I used it for ..maybe hanging strut racks.
> A regular square is good for reflective ceiling layout and racks using a laser.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Ok, one of those aluminum triangle things.
I think if someone pulled one of those out to rough in boxes, I would get his money.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I have both on hand every day. The speed square is in a bag with some other basic carpentry tools. I have to do little carpentry tasks as part of my jobs all the time, it would be silly not to keep a basic set of tools on hand. 

I keep a small combination square in my toolbox all the time, it's a very useful layout tool. You can almost always find another way to do the layout without it, but if you know how to use it you'll be glad you have it around pretty often, certainly worth the few bucks and the little space it takes up.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I have both in my general bag but for service and residential installs, never really use em. Zac makes some good points on when/where they get use though!


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

I have a combination square with me all the time. Is it better than other
squares? Dunno, but I'm used to it and it fits in my tote....well it sort of
fits in my tote....better than other types of squares would I think, but it 
still fits in worse than anything else I carry regularly. 
P&L


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

PlugsAndLights said:


> I have a combination square with me all the time. Is it better than other
> squares? Dunno, but I'm used to it and it fits in my tote....well it sort of
> fits in my tote....better than other types of squares would I think, but it
> still fits in worse than anything else I carry regularly.
> P&L


I bought one of these a couple months ago, it's pretty nice and pouch friendly. 










https://www.amazon.com/Kreg-KMA2900-Multi-Mark-Multi-Purpose-Measuring/dp/B003ARSYRG


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

splatz said:


> I bought one of these a couple months ago, it's pretty nice and pouch friendly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like that @splatz ! Does it lock into common angles like 90 and 
45? 
P&L


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I'm curious where the op needs to use this?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Never needed a combo square but I use the speed square for cutting wood. Never used it for anything else. If I have lots of cuts then I bring in the chop box.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

I'll grab the speed square for quick straight line cuts, but I'll typically grab the combo square for layout. I'll take the combo and set its length for rows of connectors in a jbox or if I have long runs to pull through floor joists I'll use it to make my marks for drilling holes. Quick and easy.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

drewsserviceco said:


> I'll grab the speed square for quick straight line cuts, but I'll typically grab the combo square for layout. I'll take the combo and set its length for rows of connectors in a jbox or if I have long runs to pull through floor joists I'll use it to make my marks for drilling holes. Quick and easy.


I can visualize how squares are useful in these scenarios. Thanks!


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

I usually eye-ball stuff. Good at it too.

Still if I was to buy a square 'speed' gets me excited as I need all the help I can get. 

Now I'll have to go research the two types to see what they are,


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

If I have a ton of timber to drill I typically measure/chalk line and eye ball the depth...

I do use my squares for carpentry.....but that's a different convo lol


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

Same with the chalk line for me, but then OCD kicks in and I want all the holes at the same height. 

A lot of old farmhouses and barns around me as well. Laying out the holes the way I do not only looks good when done but makes the work a little easier. Using 2 of the AssocElecProducts wire wheels, I was able to pull 4 home runs at a time 80 feet across a basement real easy.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I carried both for a time, found that I never used the combo square. I use my speed square all the time. Laying out JBs is a big one, but one thing I use it for (that nobody else in my company seems to) is for cutting steel stud to make shelves. Funny how my shelves come out straight while everyone else's are twisted...

Edit: I should clarify that when I say shelves, I mean horizontal pieces of stud to support larger boxes in a stud cavity, or when you want two or three boxes side by side in the same cavity, or what have you.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Speed square. Mikey like holes lined up for Ser cable pulled thru joist on 16'' centers, especially since he be using 1/0 , and 4/0 alum ser lots nowadays . The other thing...... The floor is not always level. But the speed square is an exact right triangle. So when bending 90's you can check for true 90 using your speed square against the floor even if it is not level.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Suncoast Power said:


> Ok, one of those aluminum triangle things.
> I think if someone pulled one of those out to rough in boxes, I would get his money.


I use a 6" adjustable square all the time. Get my money.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

PlugsAndLights said:


> I like that @splatz ! Does it lock into common angles like 90 and
> 45?
> P&L


It definitely locks in at 90, and you can make a T or an L or anything in between, use it as a depth gauge or whatever. I forget whether it locks in at 45!


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I use a combination square along with a Holocator for backboxes, troughs and large JB's. 

The Holocator is inexpensive and should be in every toolbox, not to mention it is made here in central New Jersey. 

http://wireman.com/products/holocater-conduit-layout-tool

I have a speed square, but it stays in the garage with various other carpentry tools.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Being a bit old school, I cut my 2x4's with a hand saw if I'm only cutting
a couple. Not sure if this is well known, but hand saws are normally (always?)
designed with 90deg angle between the handle and the blade. So, the saw can
be used as a square to mark the wood then used again to cut it. 
P&L


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

I also keep a speed square on the truck. 

I use it for marking all the way around gutter and 6x6 posts(for services on stanchions) I'm going to cut off.

Laying out conduits on panelboards, gutters, j-boxes, etc.

I also have a 4' magnetic Empire level in my truck that gets used regularly too. I probably have a handful of tools most don't carry on their truck as well. A variety of pry bars, baby sledges, a set of Norseman drill bits(for stainless), etc.

With all the ag and industrial work we do a long ways from the shop, a guy has to be prepared.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Gotta have the right tools for the job!


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## Flyingsod (Jul 11, 2013)

Either one or none. Doesn't much matter to someone with imagination.

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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I use my speed square all the time. I use it for cutting 2x's for blocking or laying out KOs in panelboards and wireway. Works great. I like mikey's idea for using it to check 90's too. Never thought of that.

ETA: Rack-a-tiers "wire dispensers" make great saw-horses btw. Lumber, plywood, strut, conduit, threaded rod, etc.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Speed square for me. Use it all the time running small pipe, great for measuring back of 90s.


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

A 6" speed square lives in my bag, a flexible 6" steel ruler (graduated in 32nds and 64ths) in my breast pocket and our crew has a framing square at our disposal. The steel ruler gets used for so much: checking depth of a hole or cut, scaling prints, feeler gauge, pressing locking tabs on fire alarm devices, messing with new apprentices by giving them dimensions in 64ths, taking measurements of connector locations inside a box. I also use it to modify benders: verify that the center of 45° mark is good, measure along the curve of bender to the arrow, do some math and you can now add marks for center of any other angle. Speed square gets all the typical uses, framing square sees use laying out ceiling tiles.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Trivia: If you remove the "ruler" from the combination square, what is the "ruler" called?


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## Krolman (Nov 7, 2016)

3DDesign said:


> Trivia: If you remove the "ruler" from the combination square, what is the "ruler" called?


A sword? :jester:

also I use both mostly the combination square. but I also use a line level









for troubleshooting reels and tilt sensors.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I can't believe this thread has lived to 35 comments. I have a square but I have no idea where it is. If you need a square to cut blocking I feel for you.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Being a bit old school, I cut my 2x4's with a hand saw if I'm only cutting
> a couple. Not sure if this is well known, but hand saws are normally (always?)
> designed with 90deg angle between the handle and the blade. So, the saw can
> be used as a square to mark the wood then used again to cut it.
> P&L


"Old school", that's a pretty new school thing for saw handles, only since the Stanley 'sharp tooth toolbox' series came out.

Old School Handsaws:










Stanley w/ 90deg an 45deg handle:


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## icdubois (Nov 16, 2013)

I have a speed square and a framers square. I normally get the framers square for laying out panels and jb's


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

I keep a 6" combination square in my tool box along with a push type center punch. Makes laying out and punching cans a breeze since most are less than 12" deep.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

icdubois said:


> I have a speed square and a framers square. I normally get the framers square for laying out panels and jb's


Like a 16" x 24" square? That's pretty big to carry around isn't it?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

butcher733 said:


> I keep a 6" combination square in my tool box along with a push type center punch. Makes laying out and punching cans a breeze since most are less than 12" deep.


I've always found a 6" combo square pretty handy for all kinds of tasks.


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## icdubois (Nov 16, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Like a 16" x 24" square? That's pretty big to carry around isn't it?


No personally have an 8 x 12, fits in my Klein bag nicely. But there's a big 16 x24 in the gang box if needed.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

icdubois said:


> No personally have an 8 x 12, fits in my Klein bag nicely. But there's a big 16 x24 in the gang box if needed.


Ahh, okay. Just seemed really big for just marking out for boxes. :thumbsup:


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## icdubois (Nov 16, 2013)

I guess it's not a framing square but a carpenters square


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## Hilario619 (May 18, 2013)

*Re invent the wheel!*

I spent a couple years as a carpenters apprentice, before i became an Electrician apprentice. Three things i noticed early on, Electricians suck at lay out, swinging hammers and paying attention to prints outside of the E sheets. as a first year apprentice, i was better at all of the above than even most foreman. I dont know how you guys get by with out a speed square. 
things a speed square does: Measure off of a 90, check a 90. layout a can/gutter without even pulling out a tape. Accurately measure over obstacles. angle finder, quickly find out what degree grandpa bent that offset to. measure and mark multiple pipes at once. 
Granted all of the above can be done with out the square, but not as fast and accurate. Speed square is more useful than a combo square, for our purposes.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Hilario619 said:


> I spent a couple years as a carpenters apprentice, before i became an Electrician apprentice. Three things i noticed early on, Electricians suck at lay out, swinging hammers and paying attention to prints outside of the E sheets. as a first year apprentice, i was better at all of the above than even most foreman. I dont know how you guys get by with out a speed square.
> things a speed square does: Measure off of a 90, check a 90. layout a can/gutter without even pulling out a tape. Accurately measure over obstacles. angle finder, quickly find out what degree grandpa bent that offset to. measure and mark multiple pipes at once.
> Granted all of the above can be done with out the square, but not as fast and accurate. Speed square is more useful than a combo square, for our purposes.


Go back to carpentry! 

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## Krolman (Nov 7, 2016)

Hey, nothing wrong with a little bend in my pipe, I call it natural.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Hilario619 said:


> I spent a couple years as a carpenters apprentice, before i became an Electrician apprentice. Three things i noticed early on, Electricians suck at lay out, swinging hammers and paying attention to prints outside of the E sheets. as a first year apprentice, i was better at all of the above than even most foreman. I dont know how you guys get by with out a speed square.
> things a speed square does: Measure off of a 90, check a 90. layout a can/gutter without even pulling out a tape. Accurately measure over obstacles. angle finder, quickly find out what degree grandpa bent that offset to. measure and mark multiple pipes at once.
> Granted all of the above can be done with out the square, but not as fast and accurate. Speed square is more useful than a combo square, for our purposes.


I disagree with your square comment, if you only carry one there are things that will be harder with one than the other.


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## Hilario619 (May 18, 2013)

*Re invent the wheel!*

(@ Zac) No way! the competition is alot softer here!:thumbsup:
(@ Deplorable) I also own both. whats something that a combo does that a speed square doesn't? maybe ill make a space for it as well.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Hilario619 said:


> (@ Zac) No way! the competition is alot softer here!
> (@ Deplorable) I also own both. whats something that a combo does that a speed square doesn't? maybe ill make a space for it as well.


Commercial? Good you got out of framing. 

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Hilario619 said:


> (@ Zac) No way! the competition is alot softer here!:thumbsup:
> (@ Deplorable) I also own both. whats something that a combo does that a speed square doesn't? maybe ill make a space for it as well.


Specific depth measurements on a trough or panel that's mounted. Fits in places the speed square won't.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

They both rock until you use them and the building aint square . Think earthquake repair . I carry a speed square at all times . 

Speed square works well with that 1950 greenlee bender with the marks worn off .


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Specific depth measurements on a trough or panel that's mounted. Fits in places the speed square won't.


A nice thing about the combination square, you can make very accurate measurements and layouts without even reading it, you lock it in with the screw and you can transfer the measurement fast and accurate. 

In general if you can find ways to lay out etc. without reading off measurements your work will be faster and more accurate. Sounds backwards, but it's true. (Eyeballing is OK for the very good and the very bad.)


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> A nice thing about the combination square, you can make very accurate measurements and layouts without even reading it, you lock it in with the screw and you can transfer the measurement fast and accurate.
> 
> In general if you can find ways to lay out etc. without reading off measurements your work will be faster and more accurate. Sounds backwards, but it's true. (Eyeballing is OK for the very good and the very bad.)


Exactly! :thumbsup:

That was what I was going for in saying 'specific' like if you wanted a string of KOs 1 3/8" back from the front of your mounted boxes, set it and mark away.

The one I use most is only a 6" size.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

We use a combo square mostly for trough layout and we cut and punch a lot of copper bus, which requires perfect layout.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I am working on a job in my shop I will probably use both a speed square and a combination squares and maybe a framing square. 
The bottom line is whatever gets you through the day is all right. 
LC


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