# E-Stop



## beaugureau (Jul 27, 2012)

I am wiring a 240 v Single Phase motor and i need to put an E-Stop on it, would i run one hot leg to the E-Stop switch????? Help Please


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

beaugureau said:


> I am wiring a 240 v Single Phase motor and i need to put an E-Stop on it, would i run one hot leg to the E-Stop switch????? Help Please


 
Break both legs.

If there's a starter involved break the control circuit.


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## beaugureau (Jul 27, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Break both legs.
> 
> If there's a starter involved break the control circuit.


 
I have only one Estop to run to.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Break after the H/O/A switch but before the coil.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

beaugureau said:


> I have only one Estop to run to.


Time to close this thread :-\


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

No. You open the control circuit. In particular the coil for the starter that starts the motor and stops the motor.
In some extreme cases they use contactors to kill everything.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Here is an example. The E-Stop is boxed in red.
Courtesy EZ Schematics.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

beaugureau said:


> I am wiring a 240 v Single Phase motor and i need to put an E-Stop on it, would i run one hot leg to the E-Stop switch????? Help Please


Where is this? What is the application?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> Here is an example. The E-Stop is boxed in red.
> Courtesy EZ Schematics.


I didn't know EZ was able to save the file. 

But wouldn't your forward & reverse contactors use their own o/l's? Never seen were they share.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Wirenuting said:


> ...But wouldn't your forward & reverse contactors use their own o/l's? Never seen were they share.


 That must be a local thing. I've never seen one where they _didn't._

-John


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Big John said:


> That must be a local thing. I've never seen one where they didn't.
> 
> -John


Ah what the heck. So we over build things. It's not our $$.. 

Oh wait,, it is,, I pay taxes to. :-(


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

If I was the OP I might just buy a unit like the ones in this link 

Quick and easy. 

http://www.rockfordsystems.com/online/dsc/disconnsingle.cfm


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Wirenuting said:


> Ah what the heck. So we over build things. It's not our $$..
> 
> Oh wait,, it is,, I pay taxes to. :-(


 Aha. Government funding. Say no more. :laughing:

-John


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Big John said:


> Aha. Government funding. Say no more. :laughing:
> 
> -John


We never waste. We use what he have on hand.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The one drawing above shows a momentary pushbutton. An e-stop is required to latch off, and is required to be manually reset to the closed position.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

beaugureau said:


> I am wiring a 240 v Single Phase motor and i need to put an E-Stop on it, would i run one hot leg to the E-Stop switch????? Help Please


You can only run the motor power directly through the contacts of the E-Stop *if those contacts have a specific MOTOR switching rating*, not just a current rating that you think is OK. Some have that, many of the cheap ones do not. So for example, a "standard" heavy duty A-B contact for the 800T line is rated for 10A, but has no motor switching rating at all. Then they have a "Max Duty" version that is still rated for 10A, but also 1.5HP 120V if you break only one line, 3HP 240V if you break both. But an ABB or Siemens E-Stop contact block has NO options available for motor switching duty at all. What will happen if you use one NOT rated for motor circuits, or if your motor EXCEEDS that rating, is that the contacts might weld, completely defeating the purpose of an E-Stop!

As the others have said, use another motor control device that has the proper MOTOR switching rating, like a contactor, and put the E-Stop in the coil circuit of that contactor. This is not something you want to skimp on, E-Stops typically have life-safety issues associated with them, and lawyers LOVE to find bad decisions...


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

While we're on the topic of being completely legal, the e-stop is required to be red, and have a mushroom head. The legend plate is required to be yellow. 

I could also make a fine argument that an e-stop button simply breaking control power/coil power to an ordinary motor starter is not a "legal" e-stop in this day and age. An e-stop breaking coil power to a safety rated contactor that is feeding the line side of that motor starter would be legal, however.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> ...I could also make a fine argument that an e-stop button simply breaking control power/coil power to an ordinary motor starter is not a "legal" e-stop in this day and age....


 What standard are you thinking of?

I was under the impression that a normal contactor was still an acceptable Category 0 stop.

-John


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Big John said:


> What standard are you thinking of?
> 
> I was under the impression that a normal contactor was still an acceptable Category 0 stop.
> 
> -John


OSHA does this funny thing called "incorporation by reference". When you consider all the documents they reference, you'll start doing your stop circuit design "the European way". Before NFPA 70, there was ANSI B11, which is still referenced by OSHA. Following that strictly, you'd also have dual-channel safety rated contact blocks on the estop, a safety monitor relay, and a safety rated MCR. Doing anything less, when you consider that these requirements exist and are incorporated by reference in OSHA requirements, would be also be a violation of the General Duty Clause.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

We had 1 to 4 guys at a factory for about a year adding dual channel switches and safety relays to anything that moved. It was a large corporation and they made it a matter of policy.

I wish I had pictures of what they made us do to Bridgeport milling machines to make them safe.

Lets just say the machinists wanted to kill us.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BBQ said:


> We had 1 to 4 guys at a factory for about a year adding dual channel switches and safety relays to anything that moved. It was a large corporation and they made it a matter of policy.
> 
> I wish I had pictures of what they made us do to Bridgeport milling machines to make them safe.
> 
> Lets just say the machinists wanted to kill us.


Let me guess... the Bridgeports got light curtains? I've seen that done to quite a few. Lathes too. You had to be careful and deliberate on how you reached in to turn the cranks.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Let me guess... the Bridgeports got light curtains? I've seen that done to quite a few. Lathes too. You had to be careful and deliberate on how you reached in to turn the cranks.


If only.

Do you recall the Get Smart cone of silence?

Well picture a plexiglass and aluminum structure that had to be put down for the machine to start. It enclosed the spindle and the work table.

There was a key operated override but only the supervisor had a key and he had to fill in a log each time he used it. The override had a counter that had to jive with the log.


The large automated band saw they used we moved the control panel away from it and installed a floor mat around the perimeter 3' wide. If you stepped on the mat while the machine was running it would shut down.

Table saws were forbidden and tossed out, the maintenance guys kept one and hid it in an outbuilding for their own use.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'd take the box apart and cycle a few numbers onto the counter ever few weeks, just to eff with them.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> OSHA does this funny thing called "incorporation by reference"....


 I'll be darned. For those like me who hadn't heard of this: Here is the list of applicable standards that must be incorporated with the OSHA standard. Start reading. 

-John


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

All of that will become par for the course in short order, we are raising the next generation to be very safety conscious after all...


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Big John said:


> I'll be darned. For those like me who hadn't heard of this: Here is the list of applicable standards that must be incorporated with the OSHA standard. Start reading.
> 
> -John


When I hear factory safety men saying they "have the OSHA book", I think to myself, "No, you don't". OSHA decided, from inception, that if a standard already exists that addresses an area they have concern with, they'll simply reference that standard rather than re-writing it themselves.

Also, some of the standards referenced might reference a very old revision of that standard, but I believe there's an appendix to 1910 and 1929 that states to use the latest revision released. For instance, OSHA wrote almost nothing on scissor and boom lift safety, but they reference the ANSI standards. The ANSI standard they actually reference is the 1969 revision, but since we're required elsewhere in the OSHA language to use the latest revision, we're not using the 1969 revision.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> I didn't know EZ was able to save the file.
> But wouldn't your forward & reverse contactors use their own o/l's? Never seen were they share.


EZ Schematics is not your everyday draw and post. You must manipulate the software to use it. 
You must make the drawing. Paste it into MS Paint. Then adjust the view. I always take extra time trying to remember how to do it. That is why I wasted my first post. It is very easy to use. It is hard to show your work.
For sure EZ has a long way to go IMO. I am not certain if the software is designed to make it difficult to share the drawings or if its just the way the software works? You would need to contact Dan on the specifics. And do not expect any extra off the record help from him.
He would not allow me to use the software on my laptop without buying another whole new program. 

I did not pay any attention to the drawing or it's accuracy. I even cut part of it off. I used it as an example of how an E-Stop works. Nothing more.



MDShunk said:


> While we're on the topic of being completely legal, the e-stop is required to be red, and have a mushroom head. The legend plate is required to be yellow.
> 
> I could also make a fine argument that an e-stop button simply breaking control power/coil power to an ordinary motor starter is not a "legal" e-stop in this day and age. An e-stop breaking coil power to a safety rated contactor that is feeding the line side of that motor starter would be legal, however.


Legal smeagal. The drawing shows an E-Stop wired in simple format. Heck, I did not even post the complete drawing. If you guys want to pick apart a drawing, at least pick apart one thats complete. 
I was just using the drawing as an example.
For the record.
In all the panels I have built, I follow the scope provided to me. I do my very best to make sure it works, looks proffesional and is safe.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> EZ Schematics is not your everyday draw and post. You must manipulate the software to use it.
> You must make the drawing. Paste it into MS Paint. Then adjust the view. I always take extra time trying to remember how to do it. That is why I wasted my first post. It is very easy to use. It is hard to show your work.
> For sure EZ has a long way to go IMO. I am not certain if the software is designed to make it difficult to share the drawings or if its just the way the software works? You would need to contact Dan on the specifics. And do not expect any extra off the record help from him.
> He would not allow me to use the software on my laptop without buying another whole new program.
> ...


You seem a bit touchy, taking comments that were meant far more generally fairly personally. What's going on tonight?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> EZ Schematics is not your everyday draw and post. You must manipulate the software to use it.
> You must make the drawing. Paste it into MS Paint. Then adjust the view. I always take extra time trying to remember how to do it. That is why I wasted my first post. It is very easy to use. It is hard to show your work.
> For sure EZ has a long way to go IMO. I am not certain if the software is designed to make it difficult to share the drawings or if its just the way the software works? You would need to contact Dan on the specifics. And do not expect any extra off the record help from him.
> He would not allow me to use the software on my laptop without buying another whole new program.
> ...


I remember when he offered the program to us. I used it for awhile. But haven't been sitting at my computer much this past year.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> You seem a bit touchy, taking comments that were meant far more generally fairly personally. What's going on tonight?


Marc. All is well on this end. I did not intend to come off in a negative manner.
It seemed some were critical of the drawings accuracy.
*I only posted the top section and left at least 50% out. The drawing was only to show the E-Stop and nothing more.*
No offense meant. :thumbsup:



Wirenuting said:


> I remember when he offered the program to us. I used it for awhile. But haven't been sitting at my computer much this past year.


He offered a trial version and if you downloaded the trial it is long expired. You can get another trial I am sure?
It costs $50.00 for *ONE* copy. I should say it cost $50.00 when I bought my download.
Make sure you download the paid version to the PC you plan to use it on.
I downloaded it to my desk top PC and really need it on my laptop.
It costs another $50.00 for that. :whistling2:
I guess I understand. But I can buy software from the most expensive software company in the world with the ability to use it on another computer. MS Office being a very good and accurate example. I buy a program, I own the program and can use it for all my needs on multiple computers. The student version can also be shared. Of course MS Office costs 5 times what EZ costs. 
That is my only negative with it along with its lack of compatibility.
You can see the drawing above and the MS paint screen needed to display the drawing. 
If there is a more direct/easier way to paste/upload a drawing into this format or any other format without using MS paint, I don't know about it.
Should you decide to buy it, myself or Dorian can assist you. Dorian made me a You Tube video showing how to paste a drawing here on the forum.
I also have the instructions written down just in case. I had to refer to them yesterday. :laughing:


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