# Securing Conduit to Ceiling Grid



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Caddy makes a clip designed to clip a conduit to a ceiling T grid. I remember a time when this was legal and now it seems it isn't but I can't prove it. When can a conduit be secured to the grid? I'm not talking about independent support wires but actually using the Caddy clips that are actually intended for the purpose?


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Take a look at 300.11


> 300.11 Securing and Supporting
> (A) Secured in Place. Raceways, cable assemblies, boxes, cabinets, and fittings shall be securely fastened in place. Support wires that do not provide secure support shall not be permitted as the sole support. Support wires and associated fittings that
> provide secure support and that are installed in addition to the ceiling grid support wires shall be permitted as the sole support. Where independent support wires are used, they shall be secured at both ends. Cables and raceways shall not be supported by ceiling grids.
> ...
> ...



While the exception seems to permit the grid to be used to support the conduits, I have never seen instructions from the ceiling manufacturer that permits it.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Take a look at 300.11
> 
> While the exception seems to permit the grid to be used to support the conduits, I have never seen instructions from the ceiling manufacturer that permits it.
> [/COLOR][/COLOR]


Thanks, I knew I had seen it somewhere. Now when did that become code? I seem to remember the change, I just don't know when it was. Was it '96 or '99? Or has it always been there? I mean Caddy still makes these clips.


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## Jay82304 (May 12, 2015)

What is the cat number for the clips? I'm interested in seeing them bc I can't say I've ever seen a conduit mounted to a grid. Not doubting you, just curious.


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## Techy (Mar 4, 2011)

Jay82304 said:


> What is the cat number for the clips? I'm interested in seeing them bc I can't say I've ever seen a conduit mounted to a grid. Not doubting you, just curious.


812MATA is the combo 1/2+3/4 clip


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Jay82304 said:


> What is the cat number for the clips? I'm interested in seeing them bc I can't say I've ever seen a conduit mounted to a grid. Not doubting you, just curious.












They don't mount to the grid, they mount to seismic wires or allthread. If you run on the seismic wires you need to install your own, separate from the grid. In situation where that would be needed I typically shoot some 1/4 allthread to the ceiling.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Caddy 8PATA clips are the ones I'm thinking of. The Caddy site says they are for positioning only and addition support is required...


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Caddy 8PATA clips are the ones I'm thinking of. The Caddy site says they are for positioning only and addition support is required...


I don't see a need or purpose for those. Who runs a conduit that close to the ceiling grid?


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## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

freeagnt54 said:


> I don't see a need or purpose for those. Who runs a conduit that close to the ceiling grid?


Fools?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

freeagnt54 said:


> I don't see a need or purpose for those. Who runs a conduit that close to the ceiling grid?


The situation I've got is a manufacturing building with a grid ceiling and 500+ lay-In fluorescents. They are fed from runs of EMT secured just like this. The A/C inspector caught them remodeling an office space without a permit and all hell broke loose. Now all the other inspectors are involved and are on the edge of making them bring everything up to code, and I mean everything.

I was under the impression that for the age of the building, this install may have been legal at one time and therefore grangfathered. But I dont know if it really ever was legal or if I just have a faulty memory.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> > The situation I've got is a manufacturing building with a grid ceiling and 500+ lay-In fluorescents. They are fed from runs of EMT secured just like this. The A/C inspector caught them remodeling an office space without a permit and all hell broke loose. Now all the other inspectors are involved and are on the edge of making them bring everything up to code, and I mean everything.
> 
> 
> Sounds like an excuse to do the job they didn't first time 'round.....
> ...


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> The situation I've got is a manufacturing building with a grid ceiling and 500+ lay-In fluorescents. They are fed from runs of EMT secured just like this. The A/C inspector caught them remodeling an office space without a permit and all hell broke loose. Now all the other inspectors are involved and are on the edge of making them bring everything up to code, and I mean everything.
> 
> I was under the impression that for the age of the building, this install may have been legal at one time and therefore grangfathered. But I dont know if it really ever was legal or if I just have a faulty memory.


good times


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> InPhase277 said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like an excuse to do the job they didn't first time 'round.....
> ...


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> Thanks, I knew I had seen it somewhere. Now when did that become code? I seem to remember the change, I just don't know when it was. Was it '96 or '99? Or has it always been there? I mean Caddy still makes these clips.


93 said you couldn't use parts of a fire rated ceiling assembly to support branch circuit wiring. The 96 wording is almost the same as the 2014 wording.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

this really caused a " Head Ache " Back in the Day ... 70's , 80's , 90's , 2000 ,

Nothing has changed ... every area has its rules ...

The Bat Wings , the ceiling grid clips , your own ceiling wires ... Existing ceiling wires ... Ty wraps , Ty wire ... BUBBLE GUM ...

you bid it one way ... The job goes to the lowest bidder who did it the other way ...


That Makes You Hate the NEC Code ...

Guess you need to know the Inspectors ... Good Idea .



Pete


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## danhasenauer (Jun 10, 2009)

bobbarker said:


> Fools?


Hacks....


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> chicken steve said:
> 
> 
> > I'm more than willing to replace it all. But I'm also the kind of guy who helps a customer out by seeing what can be left alone and what has to go. This is the research phase of the job. Today we're getting some funkiest to get all the ceiling tiles down so we can get a good view of the crap above the ceiling. And from what I've seen, there's a lot of crap. It's going to be fun $$$ fun.:thumbup:
> ...


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## Year_Zero (Nov 3, 2013)

We did an office renovation in a factory last year where they tore out the old lights and tiles but keep the grid. There was pipe on the grid/bat winged EVERYWHERE. Dated to the 1960s probably. The deck was probably 16 ft over the grid and the modular walls didn't extend above the ceiling so I suppose it made sense back in the day.

We didn't need to add much so the Inspector let us keep it with a couple conditions:

-rip out anything unused/abandoned (There was a lot after 40 years)

-Pull a ground through everything and properly tail all the boxes (he didn't want to count on old possibly loose pipe as a ground path)

-Do all the things we would have done on any job (close boxes/KOs, fix crossed neutrals, backfeeds, etc.)

Are people reading this right now saying "What a bunch of hacks"... Probably but in that case I think everyone involved felt it was a commonsense solution to make things safe and satisfy the intent of the code.


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## ancientchristian (Jan 22, 2016)

I can remember when it was standard practice to pipe lighting on the grid. You had to make your 90's true 90's or it would twist the grid. The boxes were also mounted on the grid. Back then I could come up with all the measurements by looking at the grid. Caddy and also Thomas industries used to make lots of stuff for it. Not saying it was great but it was standard practice. The fixtures were just laid in also they did not have there own support.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Well what are we supposed to do when the grid is dropped 8' from the ceiling anyways?

We're going to have to whip down, and some will be more than 6', right?

~CS~


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> Well what are we supposed to do when the grid is dropped 8' from the ceiling anyways?
> 
> We're going to have to whip down, and some will be more than 6', right?
> 
> ~CS~


It's not that lighting whips can't be longer than 6 feet, it's that factory lighting whips can't be longer than 6 feet. If you're running say 12-2 MC, they can be as long as you want if you provide proper support.

As to running the pipes on the grid, my research has found that you can clip the pipe to the grid for positioning but another means must be provided for support. That close to the grid, I don't think a batwing would work, but maybe.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Still have some boxes of old caddy clips for securing conduits right to the grid sections. Can't seem to throw them out. Have a bunch of bat wings from the old days as well.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

We still use them quite a bit in Ontario. I don't like them but sometimes in tenant fit out work you don't have a choice.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> Well what are we supposed to do when the grid is dropped 8' from the ceiling anyways?
> 
> We're going to have to whip down, and some will be more than 6', right?
> 
> ~CS~


You can hang your pipe and boxes off all-thread. It's done all the time, some times your drop ceiling can be 5, 10, 15, or 20 ft lower then your rafters. You could drop m/c to your boxes but once you get so high above a drop ceiling your box is no longer accessible.


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Well what are we supposed to do when the grid is dropped 8' from the ceiling anyways?
> 
> We're going to have to whip down, and some will be more than 6', right?
> 
> ~CS~





~CS~ Try This ...



That 6' Whip Thing is a XXXXX when the Grid Ceiling is 8" Down...

We would EMT Out and Down ... EMT to AC or BX coupling ...

Whip to whatever .

OR

Place the box there and whip out to fixtures whatever .


We dropped PIPE or EMT or BX / AC to with or on ... Threaded or Strut
to boxes ... then whip or coupling .

It works real good when the pipe drop has no coupling and is fastened 
well above ... Inspectors like that and are not looking for the additional 
Box Support on the whip box ....to 4 or 6 fixtures .

What I do not like about Pipes on the grid ... is popping out the tiles ...
When run on the grid ... choose pipe lanes wisely . caddy grid to pipe clips,
and pipe to pipe clips ,,, Run with the Long T Bar runs ...


Don


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