# Converting portable generator to floating neutral



## jcrispy3 (Sep 2, 2011)

Has anyone here ever convert a bonded neutral portable generator to a floating neutral?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jcrispy3 said:


> Has anyone here ever convert a bonded neutral portable generator to a floating neutral?


What do you mean " floating neutral "?:blink:


----------



## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> What do you mean " floating neutral "?:blink:


I think he is trying to remove the neutral ground bond so he can feed a main panel with a mbj


----------



## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

What purpose would this serve?


----------



## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

uconduit said:


> What purpose would this serve?


Well if you are feeding a panel that's already got the bond


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

To avoid a parallel path for neutral current to flow. The last Honda I worked on didn't have the bond so it wasn't a problem. Generac has a set of warning labels and a procedure to remove it on their xp series portables.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

So what is the problem in removing the jumper?
It will be connected together at the house.
The house will never see the difference.


----------



## jcrispy3 (Sep 2, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> To avoid a parallel path for neutral current to flow. The last Honda I worked on didn't have the bond so it wasn't a problem. Generac has a set of warning labels and a procedure to remove it on their xp series portables.


Could you send the Generac link for how to convert the XP's? I've got the WD but would like to see their procedure.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Is that what you have for a generator? The reason they issued this was these have the whole generator gfi, so without a neutral switched transfer switch the gfi would trip instantly. Let me see if I can get it for you. It's on the service dealer site. Unless you are dealer you can't get to it.


----------



## jcrispy3 (Sep 2, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> Is that what you have for a generator? The reason they issued this was these have the whole generator gfi, so without a neutral switched transfer switch the gfi would trip instantly. Let me see if I can get it for you. It's on the service dealer site. Unless you are dealer you can't get to it.


A customer of mine bought an XP8000. I've installed countless inlet boxes and this is the first one with each receptacle protected by a GFI. The second I plug the cord in, the GFI trips.

I think it's also the first that isn't a floating neutral.



jrannis said:


> So what is the problem in removing the jumper?
> It will be connected together at the house.
> The house will never see the difference.


I don't see an issue with removing the jumper either. You're right, the bond is made at the service disconnect.


----------



## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

The one I have the neutral bond is right behind the receptacles just bonds the neutral and ground on one of the receptacles.


----------



## sprdave (Jan 12, 2012)

jrannis said:


> So what is the problem in removing the jumper?


If it's taken elsewhere and used as a portable generator for tools, etc, where it's not connected to the house bond, it would no longer be bonded. Thus wouldn't have a fault path in a short to "ground".


----------



## jcrispy3 (Sep 2, 2011)

sprdave said:


> If it's taken elsewhere and used as a portable generator for tools, etc, where it's not connected to the house bond, it would no longer be bonded. Thus wouldn't have a fault path in a short to "ground".


Agreed.


----------



## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

sprdave said:


> If it's taken elsewhere and used as a portable generator for tools, etc, where it's not connected to the house bond, it would no longer be bonded. Thus wouldn't have a fault path in a short to "ground".


 True. The only way to avoid removing- reinstalling the N-G bond is to switch the neutral in the transfer switch.


----------



## DancerRiderSkier (Feb 5, 2016)

After converting a generator to a floating neutral, a simpler approach to return it to a bonded neutral for use as a stand-alone generator is to insert a plug into one of the 120v outlets that has been wired to connect its ground and neutral prongs (what I call a N-G plug).


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

There are a number of portable generators on the market that do not have the neutral bonded to the frame. There is no real safety issue in using them. 
Note that listed generators 15kW and smaller are required by the listing standard to have the neutral bonded and they are required to be installed as a separately derived system if they are used to supply building power.

There in no requirement in the code for a generator to be listed, so while all of the listed ones will have the neutral bond, not all of the non-listed ones do.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

There aren't many portables set up without the bond, I've looked. Honda has a few. Westinghouse has it in their instructions on how to do it. Nice because while I can figure out how to do it to most units, I don't want to modify customer generators without the factory blessing it.


----------



## fbriggs76 (Feb 5, 2016)

Yes, I had to do this in order to feed my standby transfer panel to power essential circuits if I lose utility power. I marked the standby generator with a notation that the generator neutral and ground were not bonded anymore. The neutral can easily be bonded again if the generator is to be used by itself say on a jobsite etc.


----------



## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

DancerRiderSkier said:


> After converting a generator to a floating neutral, a simpler approach to return it to a bonded neutral for use as a stand-alone generator is to insert a plug into one of the 120v outlets that has been wired to connect its ground and neutral prongs (what I call a N-G plug).


Interesting idea .. 

Wonder if that would be compliant if labelled ?


----------



## Kyrton (Feb 2, 2016)

> A customer of mine bought an XP8000. I've installed countless inlet boxes and this is the first one with each receptacle protected by a GFI. The second I plug the cord in, the GFI trips.
> 
> I think it's also the first that isn't a floating neutral.
> 
> ...


I think i had a similar issue a few years back. I had over tightened the romex connector on the inlet box or panel and was grounding enough current to trip the GFCI. I replaced the metal RX connectors with plastic push in connectors and that solved my issue.


----------



## samgregger (Jan 23, 2013)

rrolleston said:


> The one I have the neutral bond is right behind the receptacles just bonds the neutral and ground on one of the receptacles.


Yep, I just cut it and put a little toggle switch on it

<-- Bonded O Floating -->


----------

