# pushing 1/0 AL SER through 1-1/2" PVC LB?



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

No experience with SER, but I would upsize it.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

mikewillnot said:


> I'm running a 1/0 line to a new sub-panel in a garage, and the final 4' of the run will be on the outside of an interior garage wall, where our inspectors consider it to be vulnerable to physical damage. They like it in PVC sch 40. I usually use an LB fitting at the bottom of the 4' run up to the panel, but have not done so using 1/0 SER before. I'm thinking it will fit through / into an 1-1/2" LB, but not sure. Wouldn't want to wreck the cable getting it around the turn. Anyone have experience with this? I suppose I could up-size the conduit to 2", but... the cable O.D. is like 1.05"


this is attached garage or detached ?

If attached then use 1.5 inch PVC but use the 2 inch LB and use the reducing bushing due it much easier to bend that pain in arse SER cable. 

If you stay with 1.5 inch pvc LB you will have heckva a time to shoehorn it in but yes it can be done but risk of damage the conductors if not carefull. 

That why I rather oversized it on LB anytime ya hear SER running thru.,


----------



## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Yeah for $3 more I'd go the 2" LB.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I don’t know what SER is but, if it’s 3 conductor Cu plus ground, 2” will even be a struggle. Sometimes I use a PVC JB. More wiggle room and it covers up the hole nicely.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

99cents said:


> I don’t know what SER is but, if it’s 3 conductor Cu plus ground, 2” will even be a struggle. Sometimes I use a PVC JB. More wiggle room and it covers up the hole nicely.


SER is Service Entrance Rounded that is typically 4 conductor cable two phase conductors and neutral conductor and bare ground conductor useally alum cable but yes you can get this in copper too but majorty of time is alum verison.


----------



## Wiredindallas (Aug 9, 2018)

First, you can use a j&p box instead of an LB.
Second, why not use THHN?
Third, you can strip the SER at the LB so you feed 1 conductor at a time.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wiredindallas said:


> First, you can use a j&p box instead of an LB.
> *Second, why not use THHN?*
> Third, you can strip the SER at the LB so you feed 1 conductor at a time.


Because that would require splicing. More work, more material, and more points of failure. No need.

Like the other said, spend the $3 on 2" PVC and be done with it.


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Wiredindallas said:


> First, you can use a j&p box instead of an LB.
> Second, why not use THHN?
> Third, you can strip the SER at the LB so you feed 1 conductor at a time.


He's using SER and sleeving it so it looks good.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

No way a 1/0 al thru a 1-1/2" lb. Hell for that size cable a 2" is dicey. I use 2" for #2 ser cables.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> No way a 1/0 al thru a 1-1/2" lb. Hell for that size cable a 2" is dicey. I use 2" for #2 ser cables.


Agreed. I can put a 1/0 aluminum flat cable (two hots and concentric neutral) through a 2” LB and it’s a minor struggle. If it’s three conductor plus ground, it will be a bad day. That’s why I suggested a JB.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Even with a ton of wire lube the inside corner is going to cut into the cable. Might not kaboom since it's pvc, but the ampacity of the conductors could be affected by this trick. Knick, Knick, Knick, er ... I mean, Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

mikewillnot said:


> I'm running a 1/0 line to a new sub-panel in a garage, and the final 4' of the run will be on the outside of an interior garage wall, where our inspectors consider it to be vulnerable to physical damage. *They like it in PVC sch 40.* I usually use an LB fitting at the bottom of the 4' run up to the panel, but have not done so using 1/0 SER before. I'm thinking it will fit through / into an 1-1/2" LB, but not sure. Wouldn't want to wreck the cable getting it around the turn. Anyone have experience with this? * I suppose I could up-size the conduit to 2", but... the cable O.D. is like 1.05"*


1. They probably want schedule 80, not 40, coming out of the ground into the LB. 

2. I probably would have used 2" PVC.

Anyway, pull the cable assembly into the LB. Cut off the outer jacket to the SER cable assembly down to with where it comes into the LB. 

Start with the smallest conductors first and carefully shove each conductor into the second half of the LB and into panel. 

I've done it alone most of the time, but it goes faster with help. 

Did I say I'd would've used 2"? :biggrin:


----------



## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

A 2" LB with reducer bushings would be a better option here, as the others have mentioned.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

flyboy said:


> 1. They probably want schedule 80, not 40, coming out of the ground into the LB.
> 
> 2. I probably would have used 2" PVC.
> 
> ...


Do you fly to all your jobs? Or do you have a car service take you from the airport to your appointments?:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

The biggest obstacle as I see it is the fact you will be pushing the cable/wire the wrong way through the LB. So definitely 2" LB.


ETA: I just read the OP again and it sounds like he may be going underground then up into a panel. If that's the case he can't use SER underground, with or without conduit.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I do not believe this is underground:

"_I'm running a 1/0 line to a new sub-panel in a garage, and the final 4' of the run will be on the outside of an interior garage wall, where our inspectors consider it to be vulnerable to physical damage._"

It sounds like he is running the SER cable thru the house and poking into the garage low on the wall, then he is going up the wall 4' to a subpanel. He needs the PVC conduit to use as a sleeve to protect the pipe.


----------



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

A Little Short said:


> ETA: I just read the OP again and it sounds like he may be going underground then up into a panel. If that's the case he can't use SER underground, with or without conduit.



[OP] I'm coming a long haul through a mostly finished basement above a drop ceiling through a band joist into the garage, and then 4' up to a small sub-panel. No unnecessary splices.


----------



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

flyboy said:


> Cut off the outer jacket to the SER cable assembly down to with where it comes into the LB.
> 
> Start with the smallest conductors first and carefully shove each conductor into the second half of the LB and into panel.
> 
> I've done it alone most of the time, but it goes faster with help.


[OP] This makes sense. Is it legal?? [I will not admit to ever having done this.]


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> I'm coming a long haul through a mostly finished basement above a drop ceiling through a band joist into the garage, and then 4' up to a small sub-panel. No unnecessary splices.


It is true that you are going to be pushing the cable into the LB the wrong way, which will make it harder. 

Some people say to strip the sheath off the cable, but I do not like that idea. Those individual conductors are not labeled for use in a conduit AND that is a sleeve, not a conduit. So I always keep the sheath on.

I would definitely use 2" PVC and I would think about possibly using a 2-1/2" LB with reducers. Test it out on a 2" LB beforehand to see if you could get it thru easily.


----------



## Jack Legg (Mar 12, 2014)

first feed the ser thru the lb, curving it as you push it thru
then slip the 4' of pipe over the cable
then slip the panel over the cable


If you mount the panel and conduit first it will be a lot harder


oh, and go ahead and use 2"


----------



## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Different thought: if you have a drop ceiling in the basement, why not drill up though the plate from the basement and run the cable up inside the wall. Then no worries about lb size and it looks nicer.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> Different thought: if you have a drop ceiling in the basement, why not drill up though the plate from the basement and run the cable up inside the wall. Then no worries about lb size and it looks nicer.


I thought of that too. But in my experience, when a customer wants to have a subpanel installed in an existing garage, it is generally because they want to bring circuits out of it for various stuff in the future. And it's easier to do that with the panel surface mounted instead of flush in the wall.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I thought of that too. But in my experience, when a customer wants to have a subpanel installed in an existing garage, it is generally because they want to bring circuits out of it for various stuff in the future. And it's easier to do that with the panel surface mounted instead of flush in the wall.


But only one sticky issue with attached garages is firerated walls useally 3/4 inch or thicker depending on the codes., some case double half inch drywall.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Switched said:


> Do you fly to all your jobs? Or do you have a car service take you from the airport to your appointments?:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

flyboy said:


>





:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I thought of that too. But in my experience, when a customer wants to have a subpanel installed in an existing garage, it is generally because they want to bring circuits out of it for various stuff in the future. And it's easier to do that with the panel surface mounted instead of flush in the wall.


Then bring the cable in the back of the panel. You would need a big enough hole for you connector that you should be able to push the cable up to it and fish it out through.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

That sounds pretty miserable, but yeah, go at least 2" 2 1/2" with reducers would be more better. Or bring it up the stud bay far enough away to give the cable a loop and room to bend and pop it into the back of the panel. I would lean towards going into the back as opposed to surface PVC.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

flyboy said:


>


:crying:


----------



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

If I bring it up through the inside of the wall it is in an insulated space and will require derating.


----------



## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

mikewillnot said:


> If I bring it up through the inside of the wall it is in an insulated space and will require derating.


What is your load on it?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Forge Boyz said:


> What is your load on it?



Initially, 48 amps continuous (EV charger). It's being sized for future additional chargers, which would be all continuous loads.


----------



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

[OP] I went with 1-1/2" pipe and 2" LB. the LB was fairly easy. I developed a new trick: use an actual old shoehorn to push the bend through the back hole, so the cable doesn't scrape on the edge of the hole and tear the jacket.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> [OP] I went with 1-1/2" pipe and 2" LB. the LB was fairly easy. I developed a new trick: use an actual old shoehorn to push the bend through the back hole, so the cable doesn't scrape on the edge of the hole and tear the jacket.


I just bought this :biggrin: https://www.rack-a-tiers.com/product/lb-wire-guide-wire-shoe-horn/

It works in both directions, makes it super simple.


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Wiredindallas said:


> First, you can use a j&p box instead of an LB.
> Second, why not use THHN?
> Third, you can strip the SER at the LB so you feed 1 conductor at a time.


I love AL SER and you would use it residential instead of THHN so you could run it in an attic or crawl space without conduit. I can save the customer money and make more money faster that way 

Also, that’s exactly what I have done. Bring it into the conduit / raceway system with a 2 screw and strip it back and just feed the conductors.


----------



## joebeadg (Oct 7, 2008)

I used to go through exterior walls with sec in emt, but could be pvc as well doing services and instead of an lb I used a sill plats. That was on long island years ago. I'm in florida now and they don't even know what a sill plate is down here.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

joebeadg said:


> I used to go through exterior walls with sec in emt, but could be pvc as well doing services and instead of an lb I used a sill plats. That was on long island years ago. I'm in florida now and they don't even know what a sill plate is down here.


I thought about using one of those, but never did because it's basically just a funnel to direct water into the house. I know you are supposed to fill it up with ductseal or other sealant, but if that fails it is all over.

I just use an LB.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Speaking from experience, NEVER, EVER run any cabled product (SER, URD, etc) through an LB unless it's one or two trade sizes larger than what is required by code. The cabling process causes it have almost permanent bends in it that are very hard to rebend and push through LB's and short lengths of pipe if you try to untwist it and push it through. If LB's are involved, my choice is to run individual conductors with both the ground and neutral downsized to code minimum to make life a little easier.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

mikewillnot said:


> [OP] I'm coming a long haul through a mostly finished basement above a drop ceiling through a band joist into the garage, and then 4' up to a small sub-panel. No unnecessary splices.


I'd just use a pvc junction box and not fight with even a 2" LB.


----------

