# Electrical Panel in Office/Living quarters



## Jeffcoe (Aug 3, 2013)

Would like an opinion on whether or not a panel should be locked or not. I am living and working in a building in Afghanistan maintained by a contract maintained crew. The low voltage panel that controls our living quarters is locked and it takes a day or two to get someone over to open it . I have always been told not to lock low voltage panels because of the possibility that one may need to shut down a system because of emergency. Any thoughts on this?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

the only place ive seen locked panels was school buildings


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## Jeffcoe (Aug 3, 2013)

That's what I thought I know when I was doing electrical work full time we were always told not to lock any low voltage panels because of the safety issue.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

and in schools the have someone there can open it in, like 10 minutes, tops, usually


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Jeffcoe said:


> Would like an opinion on whether or not a panel should be locked or not. I am living and working in a building in Afghanistan maintained by a contract maintained crew. The low voltage panel that controls our living quarters is locked and it takes a day or two to get someone over to open it . I have always been told not to lock low voltage panels because of the possibility that one may need to shut down a system because of emergency. Any thoughts on this?


The general rule of thumb has always been to not lock the panel doors if they are in a secured / lockable room . A place like a school hallway , they need to be locked for obvious reasons . In your situation , I see no reason for this to be locked ? A have keys to every panel I've ever worked on , so a locked door doesn't stop me , lol !


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

papaotis said:


> and in schools the have someone there can open it in, like 10 minutes, tops, usually


Yeah , if they can find the keys , lol ! It's pretty rare these days for engineers to locate any electrical distribution equipment in common hallways . It used to be done all the time , now they just cram everything in a closet and call it an electrical room , lol !


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## Jeffcoe (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes this is what I thought our contract maintenance group that maintains out building is telling me they keep it locked to keep out unauthorized persons, which this is inside a locked building, cypher locked, and they will unlock it when called to come which is usually 2 days and a service call of about 200.00


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

There is no code reason that they must be unlocked. 

Circuit breakers are not intended to be used as manual emergency power off devices.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> There is no code reason that they must be unlocked.
> 
> _*Circuit breakers are not intended to be used as manual emergency power off devices.*_


Care to elaborate on that? I agree that their primary function is overcurrent and short circuit protection, but if you can't shut off the breakers in an emergency, what are you supposed to do? Cut the service drop? Pull the primary cutouts on the building's transformer? Pull the meter? 

For example, say you're working on a site and you or your helper gets hung up on some energized t-bar or machinery? Would you rather be able to get to the breakers and shut them off, or wait (and fry) until someone arrives with the keys (or the POCO shows up to kill the primary.) ?

Granted, the NEED for emergency access is very rare....but seconds count when you do need that access. 

IMHO this is one area the Code needs to address better. Code allows locked panels but makes no provisions/requirements for quick access in an emergency.

That said, if I ever encounter an emergency situation and the panel door is locked, you can count on ending up with a destroyed panel door 'cuz I'll open that f***er up any way I have to.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

BBQ said:


> There is no code reason that they must be unlocked.
> 
> Circuit breakers are not intended to be used as manual emergency power off devices.


Most breakers are switch rated and is still the way lights go on and off in some wear houses to this day . The issue as I see it is , a breaker trips and the circuit stays off until some chooch with a key shows the hell up to reset it , lol ! An unlocked panel would alleviate this problem . It's a building full of adults , not prankster kids shutting down wings of a school .


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

What's the difference between a locked panel, and a locked electrical room door? Why do panels have locks if you shouldn't lock them?

In many buildings I'd say it'd be impossible for the majority of people to even find the right electrical panel to shut down, let alone get to it fast enough to help save someone in an emergency. The scenario of using them as life-safety disconnects just isn't realistic. 

And on a regulatory note, OSHA still considers a locked panel to be "readily accessible" so there's no violation there.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mxslick said:


> Care to elaborate on that? I agree that their primary function is overcurrent and short circuit protection, but if you can't shut off the breakers in an emergency, *what are you supposed to do? *



Who is 'you' in the question?







> For example, say you're working on a site and you or your helper gets hung up on some energized t-bar or machinery?


He will be dead by the time you figure out the circuit. 



> IMHO this is one area the Code needs to address better. Code allows locked panels but makes no provisions/requirements for quick access in an emergency.


You trolling? :laughing:


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Typically we (industrial facility) don't lock breaker panels; and if we do they key is usually on top of the panel.

However, if there is a "problem area" (i.e. person) we have locked the panel and taken away the key. For example, I got a call for a tripped breaker in the office and I literally arrived at the plant in less than 5 minutes only to be told, _"we had to reset it like 15-16 times but it's okay now."_ I figure me removing the key is protecting this person from themselves... Moron! 

I did talk to this person's boss, but to no avail, so I finally one-upped it and got everyone with this job title required to to take our non-qualified electrical safety training (which does cover this scenario).


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> There is no code reason that they must be unlocked.
> 
> *Circuit breakers are not intended to be used as manual emergency power off devices.*


Then why are all houses and buildings required to either have a main disconnect outside or a shunting system?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Then why are all houses and buildings required to either have a main disconnect outside or a shunting system?


 Since when? You can have a locked main panel in a locked electrical room in a locked building. If that's an emergency disconnect, it's an awfully inconvenient one.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Then why are all houses and buildings required to either have a main disconnect outside or a shunting system?


All what have are required to have what where? 


Have you been hitting the sauce? :drink::drink::drink:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> All what have are required to have what where?
> 
> 
> Have you been hitting the sauce? :drink::drink::drink:


C'mon, I definitely figured you'd remember.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

Big John said:


> What's the difference between a locked panel, and a locked electrical room door? Why do panels have locks if you shouldn't lock them?
> 
> In many buildings I'd say it'd be impossible for the majority of people to even find the right electrical panel to shut down, let alone get to it fast enough to help save someone in an emergency. The scenario of using them as life-safety disconnects just isn't realistic.
> 
> And on a regulatory note, OSHA still considers a locked panel to be "readily accessible" so there's no violation there.


 unfortunatley, agood point!:001_huh:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

BBQ said:


> All what have are required to have what where?
> 
> 
> Have you been hitting the sauce? :drink::drink::drink:


i had a couple and still dont get that one! not sticking up for ya hack, but well ,maybe:laughingh, s%#4t just realized where this could go!


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

You may have a local req for an exterior service disconnect but an exterior disc is not required per 2011 NEC. Either exterior or at the point of entry.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HackWork said:


> C'mon, I definitely figured you'd remember.


All Wendy's have a big shunt trip button outside :thumbup::laughing:


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## boora2 (Jan 28, 2012)

Had to go to a school about 4yrs ago to fix unspecified power problems,found kids had used a steel wire to pick the lock on internal panel,flipping random breakers off,asked a teacher why she didn't just reset the breakers.She said,"I thought I might get a shock or something," so I said,well,now you're gonna get a real shock,my bill,$400 for a nuisance call at 8 in the morning.


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