# Master will not sign off hours.



## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Hy guys, 
I have a question for all of you. 
I have been a a licensed apprentice since 2003. The company I worked for had several different teams (maintenance team [electrical, millwright, HVAC, carpenters and plumbers], cable and low voltage team, computer team, Phone team ect, ect) all working together and cross teaming when needed. I was on the maintenance team working as an electrician under my master electrician from 2003 - 2007 where I logged 6000 hours. Then in 2007 I was transferred to the low voltage team.
While on the low voltage team my master still signed my apprentice renewal every year up to 2013 when tthe company cut my team and let me go. 
I had asked a few times to have him sign for my journeyman exam and he would make excuses for more training that he thought I needed before he would sign off.
I currently work under a couple other master electricians and they have signed for my hours under them and agree that I have enough hours and experience to test.
Is there any way to force a master to sign? I did my time and schooling and code update classes. I have over 16,000 hours electrical logged in commercial and residential. Add in the low voltage and I'm over 20,000 hours electrical. Even my instructors say this is wrong and a master cant refuse to sign if he signed my apprentice card every year for 11 years.
Please respond Thank You.
Do I have


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

In Minnesota you fill out a form, send it to the state and they contact the company to validate the hours. Did you keep records of your time(journal). That would help.


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

I'd say you're qualified to sit for the exam. I took mine after tech school and seven years exp. Failed it the first time, took it again and passed that was 2006.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

FlyGuy5 said:


> Hy guys,
> I have a question for all of you.
> I have been a a licensed apprentice since 2003. The company I worked for had several different teams (maintenance team [electrical, millwright, HVAC, carpenters and plumbers], cable and low voltage team, computer team, Phone team ect, ect) all working together and cross teaming when needed. I was on the maintenance team working as an electrician under my master electrician from 2003 - 2007 where I logged 6000 hours. Then in 2007 I was transferred to the low voltage team.
> While on the low voltage team my master still signed my apprentice renewal every year up to 2013 when tthe company cut my team and let me go.
> ...


Welcome aboard...:thumbsup:

https://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35299_10575_17394_17415---,00.html

https://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35299_10575_17394_56071-236428--,00.html#licensees

Call them and file a complaint against this guy, Get his Master license Number and full name, If you can prove you were working there then you have the right to have your hours signed, a simple phone call should be all that is needed, if not Hire an Attorney and sue for damages if needed, But do not let this go, call them in the morning and you should get an answer by the end of the business day.

"DO NOT LET THEM PUSH YOU AROUND" , Remember They work for you,,,Make them work!


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## Diamante (Aug 23, 2014)

you have been an electrical apprentice for 11 years? what's the rush?


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Diamante said:


> you have been an electrical apprentice for 11 years? what's the rush?


The College of Trades is going to love you. :laughing:


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Welcome aboard FLyGuy5!

Do what Black Dog suggests. It's good advise.

One thing you might consider doing before you "drop the dime on him" is give him a call and politely ask if he would reconsider signing you off. Don't threaten him, don't be disrespectful or nasty and don't tell him what you are planning on doing. 

Just be polite and if he says no just say, "ok, before we hang up would you please tell me why you won't sign me off"? What ever he says thank him for his time and say good-by. Don't argue with him.

Then make the calls to the links Black Dog provided.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The licensing board here has considered proof of employment_ logged hours_ in the past. 

There are extraneous circumstances applicable where the normal bureaucracy doesn't work, master dies , retires, abducted by aliens, etc....

~CS~


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Pay stubs would do it around here.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

If you have all of the hours logged and signed off then his signature for the test is a minor technicality at best. Especially if your current master signs for you.


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## SdCountySparky (Aug 6, 2014)

Come to California you dont need a master for anything.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

SdCountySparky said:


> Come to California you dont need a master for anything except when you join the cult of your choice.


fixed it for ya


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

btharmy said:


> If you have all of the hours logged and signed off then his signature for the test is a minor technicality at best. Especially if your current master signs for you.


Each jurisdiction is different. In Wash DC you needed 8 years I turned in letters for 8 years but not for the 9.5 I had worked. They denied my application and wanted proof of 9.5 years. Why? Because they are idiots.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Diamante said:


> you have been an electrical apprentice for 11 years? what's the rush?


Until my team was cut and I was out of work it was not worth starting a fight and burning bridges in the company or chain of command. I was making good money and had a great job. 
Now I need that license. Unemployment is nearly gone and no one is hiring apprentices around here. Every day I scrounge work for $15.00 cash, I would be making nearly double with my Journeyman's card. Add in that I have to be a journeyman for a minimum of 2 years before I can test for my Masters and it's just that much longer before I can start my own business. 
It all comes down to this for my family. 1) I can start over and take the hours I have logged working part time for the last year and hope to get enough to test in 3 more years of making apprentice wages. 2) Fight and be able to test next year and make about what I was before we were laid off. 3) Scrap it and go back to school for a less physical line of work. I'm no spring chicken..


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

btharmy said:


> If you have all of the hours logged and signed off then his signature for the test is a minor technicality at best. Especially if your current master signs for you.


 My current Master did sign for me. When I called and asked to have the last master sign the company said he refuses and that that is as far as the company can go with it.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Been there done that FlyGuy

all i can possibly add is, do consider some of the advice posted here

these folks have been down a few roads too

~CS~


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

The real issue is that my Master is upset with me. After I finished my 4 years of trade school and I had close to 5,000 hours logged, the company transferred me to the low voltage team. Still doing electrical work every day and still the same company. He still signed my apprentice renewal every year. He was mad because I moved to a higher paying position than the rest of the apprentices. 
I did electrical for every lock out / tag out, for every CCTV system, for every Data Center build and Fiber Optic system installed and serviced. I bent conduit and installed pathway.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Well my wife works for a great labor attorney.


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

FlyGuy5 said:


> My current Master did sign for me. When I called and asked to have the last master sign the company said he refuses and that that is as far as the company can go with it.


You need the master you worked those hours under to write a letter, documenting those hours. It must be notarized. All of your documentation must be sent to the state prior to submitting the application for journeyman exam. I had three different letters from three different masters verifying my hours to sit for the test. Not sure why the guy is giving you a hard time, but you need to convince him to do the right thing. Otherwise you are kinda screwed, without turning it into a legal issue.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

4SQUARE said:


> You need the master you worked those hours under to write a letter, documenting those hours. It must be notarized. All of your documentation must be sent to the state prior to submitting the application for journeyman exam. I had three different letters from three different masters verifying my hours to sit for the test. Not sure why the guy is giving you a hard time, but you need to convince him to do the right thing. Otherwise you are kinda screwed, without turning it into a legal issue.


That is really fuccked up. What happens if this guys gets killed or is just a total assshole?
Once again MI shows how to screw up something easy.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> That is really fuccked up. What happens if this guys gets killed or is just a total assshole?
> Once again MI shows how to screw up something easy.


 My thought exactly... Leaving it up to the Master to decide if an apprentice is ready to test is a design for failure. I know journeyman that had done nothing but bend conduit in commercial jobs day in and day out prior to taking their Journeyman's exam. I also know several guys that worked for an electrical contractor that never touched more than 24 volts except for when in trade school. But because they worked for an electrical contractor and they had a master to sign for them, they tested for their exam.
I was on a job today working next to some HVAC guys. In there company, if you are caught trying to test for a state license you are fired asap.. 
If I would have tried to fight my Master when I was still working for the company i would have been blackballed. 
There should be a set of benchmarks with hours and testing attached for the exam.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Not to start anything but could this be a union thing?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

A master should have no say other than if they worked the hours. If he didn't like the quality of the training, he should have done something about it.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Not to start anything but could this be a union thing?


No. Not Union (Not that there's anything wrong with that!).


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> That is really fuccked up. What happens if this guys gets killed or is just a total assshole?
> Once again MI shows how to screw up something easy.


Yeah, I know someone who is a great electrician, and has been doing it for 25 years, but will never get his license because of being screwed out of his hours, and then giving up on the system. 
I guess what I would tell apprentices, is to stay up on that chit throughout your apprenticeship and don't wait until the last minute, to get it together.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

4SQUARE said:


> Yeah, I know someone who is a great electrician, and has been doing it for 25 years, but will never get his license because of being screwed out of his hours, and then giving up on the system.
> I guess what I would tell apprentices, is to stay up on that chit throughout your apprenticeship and don't wait until the last minute, to get it together.


I was on that like stick on foo, but as noted aftr 8 years I got lax who needed it, Well it turns out I did.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Yup... I do blame myself for not pushing it more over the years. Now I need it and either have to start over as a very skilled apprentice for the buck for the next few years to log hours or go back to school and pursue a career in politics?? 
Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to make some calls and if that don't work I'll have my wife and the legal team look into other options. Maybe if a few public lawsuits show up things will change.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

FlyGuy5 said:


> Hy guys,
> I have a question for all of you.
> I have been a a licensed apprentice since 2003. The company I worked for had several different teams (maintenance team [electrical, millwright, HVAC, carpenters and plumbers], cable and low voltage team, computer team, Phone team ect, ect) all working together and cross teaming when needed. I was on the maintenance team working as an electrician under my master electrician from 2003 - 2007 where I logged 6000 hours. Then in 2007 I was transferred to the low voltage team.
> While on the low voltage team my master still signed my apprentice renewal every year up to 2013 when tthe company cut my team and let me go.
> ...


...do you have an Uncle Cletis? 

Typical non union games!


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

FlyGuy5 said:


> My thought exactly... Leaving it up to the Master to decide if an apprentice is ready to test is a design for failure. I know journeyman that had done nothing but bend conduit in commercial jobs day in and day out prior to taking their Journeyman's exam. I also know several guys that worked for an electrical contractor that never touched more than 24 volts except for when in trade school. But because they worked for an electrical contractor and they had a master to sign for them, they tested for their exam.
> I was on a job today working next to some HVAC guys. In there company, if you are caught trying to test for a state license you are fired asap..
> If I would have tried to fight my Master when I was still working for the company i would have been blackballed.
> There should be a set of benchmarks with hours and testing attached for the exam.


It his job to keep records of all apprentices in his employ, just like the taxes he paid by confiscating your earned income to pay such.

He must submit this information and has no right otherwise. What he is doing is,'cause' for his license to be revoked, get an attorney and get him fixed..


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> It his job to keep records of all apprentices in his employ, just like the taxes he paid by confiscating your earned income to pay such.
> 
> He must submit this information and has no right otherwise. What he is doing is,'cause' for his license to be revoked, get an attorney and get him fixed..


You are right Harry, the problem is the state requires this information from the apprentice. It is their responsibility as far as they are concerned, and they will not put in any effort tracking it down. I agree that getting an attorney should be his next step.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The threat is often more powerful than the execution of such civil matters.....

~CS~


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

What about all your W-2 forms? Bank statements? You can prove you worked for a contractor all this time. Right?

Are you saying the word of one man is preventing you from taking the test?


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

360max said:


> ...do you have an Uncle Cletis?
> 
> Typical non union games!


Nope.. Are they expensive?


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

John Valdes said:


> What about all your W-2 forms? Bank statements? You can prove you worked for a contractor all this time. Right?
> 
> Are you saying the word of one man is preventing you from taking the test?


 All my pay stubs show is that I worked for the company. We kept our own logs and the master never once asked to look at them. I can show my hours and send to the state. But it will still come down to him saying he is not signing off on the hours. I have around 5,000 hours directly under his supervision. I have about 10,000 on the low voltage team where I did electrical related work that he says I was not under his direct supervision. Then I have another few thousand hours that other masters will sign off on. 
Even if I can get him to sign off for the hours between 2003 - 2007 (5,000 hours directly under his watch) I will be able to test when added to what other Master Electricians are willing to sign off on.
But it is personal with him.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

FlyGuy5 said:


> I have been a a licensed apprentice since 2003. The company I worked for had several different teams (maintenance team [electrical, millwright, HVAC, carpenters and plumbers], cable and low voltage team, computer team, Phone team ect, ect) all working together and cross teaming when needed. I was on the maintenance team working as an electrician under my master electrician from 2003 - 2007 where I logged 6000 hours.


Maybe he would be open to signing for your hours logged between 2003-2007? Is there someone else at that company you could talk to who would be willing to have a discussion with him? Getting him to write your letter is the best chance you have. You really should have pushed the issue while you were still employed there. I know many folks who've been shafted because a previous employer refused to sign for them.

If all else fails, apply for the examination and submit whatever documentation you do have and then be prepared to appeal when you are rejected.

What you do have going for you is the fact you’ve been a registered apprentice for over a decade. Hopefully you also have detailed records of the type of work you were doing during this time? Otherwise, for all the state knows you were pushing a broom and making coffee. All our apprentices keep a monthly task sheet that must be signed by their journeyman. I know this is a long shot since you're not with the company anymore, but perhaps you can you dig up old work orders that have you listed as billing time against them?

Good luck, unfortunately you're going to need it.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/dleg_bcc_electrical_exam_info__354155_7.pdf



sbrn33 said:


> Pay stubs would do it around here.





John Valdes said:


> What about all your W-2 forms? Bank statements? You can prove you worked for a contractor all this time. Right?
> Are you saying the word of one man is preventing you from taking the test?


W-2 forms, paystubs and bank statements mean nothing; this is because an electrical contractor may have people other than electricians and apprentices working for him/her.



btharmy said:


> If you have all of the hours logged and signed off then his signature for the test is a minor technicality at best. Especially if your current master signs for you.


Your current master can only sign for hours logged under his license; he cannot sign for hours worked under someone else.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Michigan Master said:


> If all else fails, apply for the examination and submit whatever documentation you do have and then be prepared to appeal when you are rejected.
> 
> Good luck, unfortunately you're going to need it


 I did send it in. In March I filled out the form, had my master write a letter and added in my $100.00 and mailed it in to the state. Then I got the letter saying I need my old master to sign off. $100 down the tubes..
What gets me is that every electrician and instructor have given me a different story. My current Master told me to send in what I had and that I did not need the past master to sign off. My instructor told me Low voltage and electrical are both in the code book and excepted as " loggable electrical hours). Another journeyman I workrd on a job with has changed light bulbs and ballasts in office buildings for 6 years and never pulled a circuit. One guy I talked to at the dept of licensing said my low voltage hours will not count. Another told me as long as I have a signed apprentice license, If I spend 8 hours plugging in crock pots in the cafeteria I can log them. The law seems very vague and open for interpretation.


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Low voltage gets you a different ticket round here. For good reason too.

There has to be some reason a master won't sign off. And if it's for no reason then you can fight it.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

You were an apprentice for 10 years???? It never dawned on you after 4 years you could make more money being a journeyman?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> You were an apprentice for 10 years???? It never dawned on you after 4 years you could make more money being a journeyman?


There might be a reason he is a 10year apprentice...


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

chewy said:


> There might be a reason he is a 10year apprentice...


yep, non union games


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

FlyGuy5 said:


> What gets me is that every electrician and instructor have given me a different story. My current Master told me to send in what I had and that I did not need the past master to sign off. My instructor told me Low voltage and electrical are both in the code book and excepted as " loggable electrical hours). Another journeyman I workrd on a job with has changed light bulbs and ballasts in office buildings for 6 years and never pulled a circuit. One guy I talked to at the dept of licensing said my low voltage hours will not count. Another told me as long as I have a signed apprentice license, If I spend 8 hours plugging in crock pots in the cafeteria I can log them. The law seems very vague and open for interpretation.


If you didn't appeal the decision (I would also appear at the hearing), then yes that was $100 down the drain. At minimum they would've told you exactly what you needed, and you would've gotten it in writing.



> Applicants for examination may appeal to the Electrical Administrative Board when their application has been denied due to their inability to comply with the requirements set forth in the application instructions. Appeals shall be in writing and addressed to:
> 
> Electrical Administrative Board
> LARA/BCC/Electrical Division
> ...


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

360max said:


> yep, non union games


I'm not union, and I took the state required apprentice courses, and worked for 4 years. Then tested out. 

So it is not a non union game. As much as You may be brain washed to believe in your superioriety, its a myth!


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

NacBooster29 said:


> I'm not union, and I took the state required apprentice courses, and worked for 4 years. Then tested out.
> 
> So it is not a non union game. As much as You may be brain washed to believe in your superioriety, its a myth!


Me too


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

NacBooster29 said:


> I'm not union, and I took the state required apprentice courses, and worked for 4 years. Then tested out.
> 
> So it is not a non union game. As much as You may be brain washed to believe in your superiority, it's a myth!


I think what he is alluding to in a less than polite fashion is in the union this would not happen as you have documentation through the hall.


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> I think what he is alluding to in a less than polite fashion is in the union this would not happen as you have documentation through the hall.


I've seen it happen to a Union guy. Laid off so many times didn't have the hours took over 7 years I believe


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Crack Wireman said:


> I've seen it happen to a Union guy. Laid off so many times didn't have the hours took over 7 years I believe


Not in our local with our apprentices THAT I KNOW OF


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

NacBooster29 said:


> You were an apprentice for 10 years???? It never dawned on you after 4 years you could make more money being a journeyman?


Not so quick there skippy... The company I worked for was wholly owned by Dow Corning.. My company handled all the site maintenance for Dow Corning headquarters and low voltage and network support for all sites around the country. The low voltage team also branched out and held non Dow corning service contracts with schools, banks and medical facilities. 
My base was a cush office, 40 hour a week Monday - Friday, OT after 8 hours and an average of 5 hours OT a week ( 20 if I wanted it), Free schooling (BICSI, Corning Fiber Optics, CCTV classes, Journeyman prep classes, Code update classes, College and when we were slow we took on line courses in our office), a free phone and company van, good pay with raises, a great upward mobility structure, fantastic benefits and medical, a minimum of 2 weeks paid vacation and never! Ever a lay off until the company folded. Why would I want to piss off the master electrician that has friends in high places and give myself a rep as a trouble maker. I had it good! My electrician friends on the outside struggled with benefits, lay offs, down time, travel expense, wear and tear on their own vehicle and the same pay or less. They beeged us to get them into our company.
It's not that I did not want to be an electrician. I had to play the game. I asked politely and he said no. I asked again the next year and so on and so on. In 2011 I took it to my supervisor and it went to the president of my company. They tried to force him to sign but the way the Apprentice program is written they could not make him sign. The company wanted me to be a Journeyman , but they also did not want me to make waves. All except him.. 
And truth be told, who in there right mind would choose, for the same pay, to work with high voltages outside in all weather, when they could work with low voltage in climate controlled environments and the coolest new equipment and training??


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

FlyGuy5 said:


> Not so quick there skippy... The company I worked for was wholly owned by Dow Corning.. My company handled all the site maintenance for Dow Corning headquarters and low voltage and network support for all sites around the country. The low voltage team also branched out and held non Dow corning service contracts with schools, banks and medical facilities.
> My base was a cush office, 40 hour a week Monday - Friday, OT after 8 hours and an average of 5 hours OT a week ( 20 if I wanted it), Free schooling (BICSI, Corning Fiber Optics, CCTV classes, Journeyman prep classes, Code update classes, College and when we were slow we took on line courses in our office), a free phone and company van, good pay with raises, a great upward mobility structure, fantastic benefits and medical, a minimum of 2 weeks paid vacation and never! Ever a lay off until the company folded. Why would I want to piss off the master electrician that has friends in high places and give myself a rep as a trouble maker. I had it good! My electrician friends on the outside struggled with benefits, lay offs, down time, travel expense, wear and tear on their own vehicle and the same pay or less. They beeged us to get them into our company.
> It's not that I did not want to be an electrician. I had to play the game. I asked politely and he said no. I asked again the next year and so on and so on. In 2011 I took it to my supervisor and it went to the president of my company. They tried to force him to sign but the way the Apprentice program is written they could not make him sign. The company wanted me to be a Journeyman , but they also did not want me to make waves. All except him..
> And truth be told, who in there right mind would choose, for the same pay, to work with high voltages outside in all weather, when they could work with low voltage in climate controlled environments and the coolest new equipment and training??


I'm not taking sides here, but getting paid what you deserve isn't being a troublemaker. Instead you sent out the message that you're passive enough to work well below pay scale. I guess I'm saying, if you don't think you're worth more than nobody else will. Hopefully it works out for you. I would get assertive about ASAP and not accept no for an answer, period.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Michigan Master said:


> If you didn't appeal the decision (I would also appear at the hearing), then yes that was $100 down the drain. At minimum they would've told you exactly what you needed, and you would've gotten it in writing.


 Your right. I should have appealed, but the letter said I had something like 10 days and I had not received a response from my old company yet. I also was having the legal team look into it. Not trying to make excuses just saying that there was a timeline that was hard to force others to meet. Then I posted here.


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

chewy said:


> There might be a reason he is a 10year apprentice...


Maybe? But I'm willing to put it to test or "EXAM" to find out.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

FlyGuy5 said:


> Maybe? But I'm willing to put it to test or "EXAM" to find out.


I just don't think your ready yet. Lol


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## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

I would call and talk to a live person with lara, they have been help full toward me in the past. We went to statewide testing and licensing to eliminate this sort of nonsense. He is required to write the letter on company letterhead stating your hours and experience, if he doesn't like what you did he is free to include that.


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## Expediter (Mar 12, 2014)

NacBooster29 said:


> I'm not union, and I took the state required apprentice courses, and worked for 4 years. Then tested out.
> 
> So it is not a non union game. As much as You may be brain washed to believe in your superioriety, its a myth!


I am not union either, but I know what he was talking about. I can't tell you how many guys came from other companies that were taken advantage of exactly like the OP. Maybe not so long, but in the same way. 

You got a good company, I got a couple good companies AFTER working for a real jerk who gyped me on hours when I first started. I have never heard of this from a union shop. My brother is union, or was, and I would have heard something over the years.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

FlyGuy5 said:


> Well my wife works for a great labor attorney.


Sounds like the Electrical Contracting Board will just give you "His" master card:laughing:

Welcome aboard!


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Crack Wireman said:


> I'm not taking sides here, but getting paid what you deserve isn't being a troublemaker. Instead you sent out the message that you're passive enough to work well below pay scale. I guess I'm saying, if you don't think you're worth more than nobody else will. Hopefully it works out for you. I would get assertive about ASAP and not accept no for an answer, period.


I know it may not be easy to understand or for me to clearly explain but Are we ever paid what we deserve?
I was lax and complaisant. But, understand this, even if I would have pushed it harder and forced them to let me test, and I received my Journeyman license.. The company already had there 4 or 5 slotted electricians working as journeyman and receiving some sort of journeyman scale. All of which were Master electricians. Yes I would have been a Journeyman. But they would not have had to pay me as a journeyman. They would not have had to do anything at all that would have been in my favor. I would be the guy that rocked the boat. I watched literally hundreds of people get laid off (one of my jobs on the low voltage team was to clean out the offices, floors and entire building closures of all cables, phones and network equipment). I made it through 4 rounds of cuts over 10 years. My family needed me to "NOT " rock the boat. 
We also had 2 Journeyman contractors through Addeco working for the maintenance team and they were begging to be hired on knowing they would have only been making high apprentice wages. We knew how it would be on the outside.. 
To tell you that it was a good company is an understatement. We had MBA's doing time in packaging in the warehouse hoping to apply for an opening in marketing. Chemists working as lab techs's waiting for a chemist position to open. Engineers working as swing shift operators waiting for their chance. Pay, benefits and quality of life. Only the cream rise to the top. No one wants to be a squeaky wheel when you have 50 spare wheels waiting to take your place... They don't fix you. They replace you..


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## Nobaddaysinak (Jan 17, 2012)

In Alaska they don't have to sign, getting my admin license was a total pain. People I worked for wouldn't sign for me because I would be competition luckily for me had a few friends with admins in different areas of the state
Hardest part was getting the three signatures just to sit for the test Our state is goofy for that rule


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Flyguy, throughout history the folks who make the rules/laws always seem to get more out of their work, than the folks paying their salary.

There is no reason why you should need anything more than proof of employment and your job title to test for a JW or EC exam.

You seem more than qualified for the license and would thrive in any other company.

Approach the Electrical Board with your sad tale and I'm confident you will succeed:thumbsup:


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## FlyGuy5 (Oct 10, 2013)

Thanks folks, 
We are in the process of getting a letter out to my old master as well as calling him. If that does not work then My wife takes over with the legal team. I am also going to start formulating an appeals letter to to the board.
Just sent out another 10 resumes today but the jobs boards all seem to want Journeyman or more in my area. 

Thanks for letting me vent


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

FlyGuy5 said:


> To tell you that it was a good company is an understatement.


If it was really such a good company, this would not have happened. I understand they might not have needed another journeyman and that having your license would not have resulted in a pay increase, but if they were such a good company they would not have tried to hold you back. Also there would have been alternative avenues for you to address the problem; if it was such a great company, pursuit of your letter would not have resulted in termination as long as it was done properly and respectfully.

I really do not understand why you are defending them... Living in fear of termination for standing up for yourself does NOT sound like a good work environment. Refusing to graduate apprentices just so they can keep them from moving up the pay scale or finding work elsewhere does not meet my definition of a good company.

Contact the Electrical Division at: (517) 241-9320 or via E-Mail at [email protected]


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

FlyGuy5 said:


> Your right. I should have appealed, but the letter said I had something like 10 days and I had not received a response from my old company yet. I also was having the legal team look into it. Not trying to make excuses just saying that there was a timeline that was hard to force others to meet. Then I posted here.


Here is a link to an online survey requesting feedback concerning BCC services; one of the options is for the licensing process which includes a blank for comments _and_ the option to request you be contacted.



> *License Process Evaluation *
> For State of Michigan boiler, electrical, elevator, manufactured housing, mechanical or plumbing license holders to rate BCC services while obtaining your license. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.
> http://www6.dleg.state.mi.us/BCCLicenseProcessEvaluation/Default.aspx


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