# Far side support-NEC



## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

electrified1 said:


> I am trying to find where it calls for a far side support in the NEC for boxes installed in metal stud framing.


It doesn't.


ETA: The closest thing I found is 314.23 (C).


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

But the NEC does require the boxes to be rigidly secured or some such wording, the AHJ gets to decide if what you have meets that.


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> But the NEC does require the boxes to be rigidly secured or some such wording, the AHJ gets to decide if what you have meets that.


Yeah, I don't think it's something you can really argue with them about. It seems like this would be one of the few things an inspector could reasonably use 110.12 on.


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## electrified1 (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks for the response and I would agree it is not clearly stated in the NEC and 110.12 would be an avenue the inspector coud follow.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

110.12? Are you kidding? How would a bracket box mounted to a steel stud ever be considered a non "neat and workmanlike manner"? 

FSBS are not needed and are a waste of money, unless they are spec'ed out in which case I will happily install them for the mark-up.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*far side support*



electrified1 said:


> I am trying to find where it calls for a far side support in the NEC for boxes installed in metal stud framing.


In a workmanlike manner.


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> 110.12? Are you kidding? How would a bracket box mounted to a steel stud ever be considered a non "neat and workmanlike manner"?
> 
> FSBS are not needed and are a waste of money, unless they are spec'ed out in which case I will happily install them for the mark-up.


If an inspector can push a box into the wall 2", how can that *not* been seen as a 110.12 violation?

I use the Erico H23 for single boxes:









And the Erico RBS16 for when I have multiple boxes or when a box needs to be in a certain spot and the H23 (which holds it close to the stud) doesn't work:


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Is it really that much more work? I mean, honestly. It makes for a quality installation


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

My cost on the H23 (the last time I bought them) were over a $1.00 a piece. Sure you use them and you don't need a bracket box. I'm paying $0.12 extra for a bracket. On the job I'm doing now there is just over 200 outlets. That's a couple hundred extra in my pocket. I am sure no one else I bid against included them. 

As far as the boxes pushing in, they won't. Once drywall goes up, what are you gonna have, possible a quarter inch deflection, at most?



> It makes for a quality installation


I disagree. You gonna tell me, the first hundred years of electrical installation is not of quality?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

We use H-23s.

If I was an inspector I would not pull out 110.12, I would put 300.11(A) on the red tag if I did not think a 'bracket box' was securely fastened. To me that would depend on the gauge of the studs.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> You gonna tell me, the first hundred years of electrical installation is not of quality?


They have been using metal studs for 100 years? Because this thread is not about wood.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> They have been using metal studs for 100 years? Because this thread is not about wood.


Agreed. I was trust trying to make a point. Just because there is a new product (around 10 years), doesn't mean the old way wasn't perfectly fine.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Agreed. I was trust trying to make a point. Just because there is a new product (around 10 years), doesn't mean the old way wasn't perfectly fine.


Actually it does. If the old design was fine, then there would not be a need for improvement. Clearly they (steel city, carlon, whoever) were identifying a problem (deflection) and implementing a solution (far side support)


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Agreed. I was trust trying to make a point. Just because there is a new product (around 10 years), doesn't mean the old way wasn't perfectly fine.


If I was working with wood studs a bracket box works fine, the stud is strong enough to keep the box still.

Its when you are working with the lighter gauge metal studs that I feel a bracket box alone will not be securely mounted. 

I once was trying to put a line voltage T-stat into a wall box only to have it pull right off the metal stud, talk about a major PITA to deal with and the next person that opened that box would be swearing at me.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Other kinds of Far Side Support Exist.


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