# Tool List question



## scott_8222 (Jul 3, 2008)

Does anyone know how set in stone the local 424 tool list is? Are you allowed to add some other hand tools to your tool box within reason?


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Not familiar with the list for anywhere but my area. It calls out that "other hand tools" are ok. Specifically mentions a few items that are not, like cordless drills. 

I would imagine tools not specifically prohibited were ok, but you should really ask around to be sure. Could stir up bad feelings without meaning too and if you are travelling, newly organized, or an apprentice that could be a bad start.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Why would a company get upset if you have a drill....? Just askin...


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Agreed. 

You'd hate to have bad feelings come your way for just trying to make an extra effort. It's hard enough being an apprentice. My advice would be to start with the basic tool list, but keep your eyes peeled as to what everyone else has additional. Perhaps make a brief off-handed inquiry as to whether a certain tool a guy is using (that you might want to add to your basic tools) belongs to him or the contractor.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Tool lists are normally ignored until you piss someone off , or you carry a ton of extra tools.
And don't even think you will get away with your own power tool.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Why would a company get upset if you have a drill....? Just askin...


I think the company wouldn't mind so much, but the union "brothers" probably would. There's some sort of unwritten rule that if the tool operates by human power only, it's okay to own. If it operates on electric, battery, hydraulic, or air power, the contractor must provide it. Apparently, from what I've been able to decipher, ignoring the basic tool list is okay as long as it's a human powered tool and a sufficient number of your co-workers also want to own one.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

I carry whatever I need. But Im not a union guy. I say the boss buys anything that cuts of than basic small hand tools.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Voltech said:


> I carry whatever I need. But Im not a union guy. I say the boss buys anything that cuts of than basic small hand tools.


In the union every local has a diferent contract that the contractor,union,and workers adhere to and they have certain tools on the list that the worker is required to have to be able to work on a said job. The contractor can not require us to have anything that is not on that list and if your tools get stolen or damaged while working on that said job the contractor is only required to replace only what is on the tool list. And on the funny side, my boss told me if I do not get a job soon she might have to leave me.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Bringing your own power tools of any kind will cause one of your brothers to rat you out and file charges on you.

Some guys bring all kinds of hand tools that are not on the list which is ok with me.

Tools stolen from the game box over night are not the contractors responsibility either (at least not in my agreement), but I generally cover them anyway because they cant work without tools and the time spent gearing back up usually cost me more than the tools.

As for the stolen tools not on the list, I pick those up too as long as it's reasonable.

Every now and then I get an IBEW crackhead who figures out I am generous and after the second time replacing tools they are on their own.

For the most part I have rarely needed to replaced anyone's tools, the guys tend to take very good care of their own tools, its my cordless drills and sawsalls that I have to replace weekly, they don's seem to care whether they get stolen or not.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

PhatElvis said:


> Bringing your own power tools of any kind will cause one of your brothers to rat you out and file charges on you.
> 
> Some guys bring all kinds of hand tools that are not on the list which is ok with me.
> 
> ...


You are a union contractor I am to assume by your post, thank you for your imput from the other side of the counter. I truely despise the theft of company tools, I tell all that will listen if I were to bring any new tools home my boss would make me use them at home and she cracks a mean whip.LOL. When ever not covered by the contract I am working under, 1st refer back to bilaws and all comes under state and federal law.I do abide by the tool list for my protection and the contractor sake. It just seems a fair way of doing a job.Once on a job a young JW was walking into work with a huge bag full of tools so I mentioned the tool list to him and he politely told me to go F___ yourself. After this I did make it a point to bring it up at the union meeting, under "good of the union".


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Port-a-bands disappear in minutes when left alone..


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

anyone got a tool list for local 5?


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> And on the funny side, my boss told me if I do not get a job soon she might have to leave me.


I'm working and looking to trade up. Is she from the 909 or the 951?


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## NORTHERN_SPARKY (Oct 20, 2010)

*IBEW 424 tool list*



scott_8222 said:


> Does anyone know how set in stone the local 424 tool list is? Are you allowed to add some other hand tools to your tool box within reason?


I am a 10 yr member of IBEW424, 8 years industrial construction and the tool list *is* pretty much set in stone. 
On industrial jobs, right after site orientation , the job steward does a tool box check before your assigned to a crew, on some jobs I have been told to take some excess tools out of my tool box right then and there, on others I was just told these tools not on tool list would not be replaced if damaged or stolen. 

*IN NO CASE*, are tools that are simply lost, or even stolen from your personal tool box while not locked in the company gang box or other secure lock up *ever* replaced. Lock your tool box at all times when not directly in your view. 

On one job, I had my tool box padlocked, sitting on a scaffold deck about fifteen feet below where I was working, and some SOB walked off with the whole thing!! Fortunately, on that particular job, my foreman convinced the owner to replace my tools and tool box, but this is RARE.

Having said all that, I have also worked residential (non- union, before I joined the hall) and commercial construction and maintenance.

On many res and commercial jobs, there is no steward, and owners would be quite pleased if you supplied your own 3/4 ton van and ladders, (this is only half joking), but again...if its not on the list...its at your own risk

see 2 attachments which are directly from the Local 424 (Alberta) construction agreement


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

NORTHERN_SPARKY said:


> see 2 attachments which are directly from the Local 424 (Alberta) construction agreement


So, would tightening a 3/4" compression coupling be a 2 man job, considering you are only allowed 1 pair of channellocks?


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## NORTHERN_SPARKY (Oct 20, 2010)

ha ha I guess so...you might have also noticed there is no combo square any more..possibly the single most useful tool ever made for installing cable tray and fabbing supports
its been replaced with cheesy piece o'crap plastic triangle framing square supplied by the company tool crib


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## NORTHERN_SPARKY (Oct 20, 2010)

also, the tool crib usually has 6" to 18" pipe wrenches


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

A little different here..


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## NORTHERN_SPARKY (Oct 20, 2010)

looks very familiar....although it's been a long time since I used a brace and bit...
but i will say, those old bits can't be beat for drilling wood studs in rezzy, I cut the square shank off a 7/8" and 3/4" and used them in my electric drill for years, auger bits just make a messy exit hole, kinda like a .45....:laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

NORTHERN_SPARKY said:


> I cut the square shank off a 7/8" and 3/4" and used them in my electric drill for years, auger bits just make a messy exit hole, kinda like a .45....:laughing:


WTF? How do you cut tool steel? Anneal it first? 

My problem with augers is getting the worm all boogered on nails.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Toronto Sparky said:


> A little different here..


No wonder I can underbid.... and outwork....


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I think everyone else summed it up pretty well.. No power tools. If I'm bringing power tools I might as well be my own contractor.. wait, I am.. Some guys will bring a ratchet and a few common sockets. Seen one company where guys were packing ratcheting cable cutters. That's pushing it to me. I'll use a sawzall before bringing personal cutters like that. I wouldn't get all crazy and buy every tool on the list either. Get what you need to start out and buy stuff as you need it.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> WTF? How do you cut tool steel? Anneal it first?
> 
> .


 Cutting wheel in a grinder or a chop saw.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

nitro71 said:


> Seen one company where guys were packing ratcheting cable cutters. That's pushing it to me.


One company I was an apprentice at, guys packed their own hole hawgs. The guy I was with had two, one for me, one for him. He also had a corded macho he bought from a fence. He also had four celphones, and I did most all the work. I hauled my own dewalt fatpack.

In spite of having no health benefits, guys providing the tools, getting paid lower than average non-union, guys working their a55 off... the company never could hold onto money, because one or two deals going south, spoiled all the gains. The owners were some of the best producers I've ever seen, but I guess that didn't translate into good management??

Anyways, after I left, I got an angry phone call, my bud said that now they had to provide their own ship augers too, but the company reneged after everyone threatened to quit.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I hate to be a dumb-ass but what's a "macho"?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> I hate to be a dumb-ass but what's a "macho"?



A man Tool :thumbup::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

You know, the rotohammer with the spline drive for the big bits.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

i carry my own battery driver. its the small makita one. love that thing to death. also have a drill, and sawzall. Maybe its a bit different up here, but no one minds. hell, they like it because it saves so much time using that over the hacksaw. 

Plus on the days when we have to set the racks, one drill would just take a bit too long


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I'm Local 932, Oregon Coast... we have an official tool list but it is a load of crap and no one here abides by it. We're a small local in a rather sparsely populated area, so we're called on to do all sorts of different kinds of work on any given day.

Basically my tool box is full of miscellaneous hand tools; some are on the tool list, some aren't. I've spent a few years experimenting with different tools and now I've pretty much got a set of stuff with which I can perform most of the work that can get thrown at me on an average day. My shop supplies power tools and most "kit" items - drill index, socket wrench set, hole saw kits, etc.

I'm not opposed to buying some new fancy kind of pliers that might make my job a lot easier just because it's not on the tool list. That doesn't make any sense. When I first started, I was working at a big heavy industrial facility on a turbine generator building. There were quite a few travellers and other dudes dispatched from our hall. None of them gave a crap about an apprentice with an extra pair of channel locks or whatever.

I'm glad I'm an IBEW member but some of the things in the agreement (especially the tool list) are so dumb that I just disregard them. If that's heresy or something then so be it; I'd rather represent the union as an efficient, effective wireman than by waving my agreement around accusing people with an extra fork terminal crimper or two of committing the grievous act of "give-backs."


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

erics37 said:


> I'd rather represent the union as an efficient, effective wireman than by *waving my agreement around accusing people* with an extra fork terminal crimper or two of committing the grievous act of "give-backs."


Those guys will chuck your tools. Not all, but a few will.

When the job starts ramping up and you go to a new job, or meet new guys, everybody plays the tough guy act. Alot of the hall guys will do good work, and keep working productively, even though they talk tough.

When you hear, 'no contractor's ever made a dime off me,' then you got to be aware, that's a dead-weight slug troublemaker.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

erics37 said:


> I'm Local 932, Oregon Coast... we have an official tool list but it is a load of crap and no one here abides by it. We're a small local in a rather sparsely populated area, so we're called on to do all sorts of different kinds of work on any given day.
> 
> Basically my tool box is full of miscellaneous hand tools; some are on the tool list, some aren't. I've spent a few years experimenting with different tools and now I've pretty much got a set of stuff with which I can perform most of the work that can get thrown at me on an average day. My shop supplies power tools and most "kit" items - drill index, socket wrench set, hole saw kits, etc.
> 
> ...



My sentiments exactly.


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

nobody will bust balls about hand tools but guys should definitely not bring their own power tools in though...............its not fair to the guys that cant afford to buy them or do not already own them.

i personally own a pony with a hogs head adapter and oiler etc.
and just about every power tool but i would never bring them to work.......trhat is solely the contractors responsibility!

This has nothing to do with being a local 3 electrician!


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Control Freak said:


> nobody will bust balls about hand tools but guys should definitely not bring their own power tools in though...............its not fair to the guys that cant afford to buy them or do not already own them.
> 
> i personally own a pony with a hogs head adapter and oiler etc.
> and just about every power tool but i would never bring them to work.......trhat is solely the contractors responsibility!
> ...


And I think this is pretty much common sense.

Now on a different topic, what exactly are YOU doing with a hogs head adapter and an oiler???


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> When you hear, 'no contractor's ever made a dime off me,' then you got to be aware, that's a dead-weight slug troublemaker.


 I'm not union so maybe I'm missing something here, but I never could figure those guys out. 
I mean that's a guys whole purpose on a job, to go in be professional and productive and make money.


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

lol................the hog head i jyust happened to pick up along the way from a yard sale. I had delusions of grandeur at the time! i would of bought a table bender if it was for sale..............yeah 400 amp services here i come! and then it dawned on me that i would never put a 400 amp service in as a sidejob..lol!!!!!!!!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> I'm not union so maybe I'm missing something here, but I never could figure those guys out.
> I mean that's a guys whole purpose on a job, to go in be professional and productive and make money.


No, that's not _their_ purpose. Their purpose is to make as much money as possible and that's it, but they don't have the intelligence to figure out that their actions will hurt them in the future.

I've heard a lot of guys say "Slow down, we don't want to work ourselves out of a job!". But what they don't realize is that a few extra days of work caused by their lack of productivity only gives them a few more bucks, they lose a LOT more when the customers see this and decide to go non-union on the next job. Those extra few bucks they made dragging out jobs for all those years leads to a lower marketshare which leads to extra time sitting on the bench.

I've always followed a simple outlook, my job is to make money for the contractor and do good work for the customer. If I do those 2 things, everything else will fall into place. I will make lots of money and help keep money coming in the future and for my fellow workers. If all I thought about was making my next paycheck, I might lose sight of the other important aspects that need to be addressed.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

HackWork said:


> I've always followed a simple outlook, my job is to make money for the contractor and do good work for the customer. If I do those 2 things, everything else will fall into place. I will make lots of money and help keep money coming in the future and for my fellow workers. If all I thought about was making my next paycheck, I might lose sight of the other important aspects that need to be addressed.


 Exactly. Well spoken.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Those guys will chuck your tools. Not all, but a few will.


And then I'll get a new toolbox and stock it with tools from _their_ toolbox. Seriously, I won't tolerate some jackass acting like a thug just because he never felt included in anything until he joined the union. There's being a union member and there's being an idiot. Fortunately, I think the idiots are few and far between (I haven't met one yet but my career is still young). I may do wormy stuff once in a while (like carrying unsanctioned hand tools or *gasp* starting work at 7 AM instead of 8 AM) but that's because it's practical. I still agree with the basic tenets of union membership, and I believe that any of these tool-chucking douchebags are violating them far more than a guy with 3 extra screwdrivers.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

erics37 said:


> ...starting work at 7 AM instead of 8 AM...


And you were complaining cause I suggested starting early to t-shoot a certain lighting problem :laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

mattsilkwood said:


> I never could figure those guys out.
> I mean that's a guys whole purpose on a job, to go in be professional and productive and make money.


That phrase is something heard from travelers who seek out the time jobs. They hide out on the big jobs and cause trouble.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

erics37 said:


> I believe that any of these tool-chucking douchebags are violating them far more than a guy with 3 extra screwdrivers.


You're preaching to the choir. Any man touching my sh1t with malice will get smoked for stealing.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> And you were complaining cause I suggested starting early to t-shoot a certain lighting problem :laughing:


lol hey now, pointing out my inconsistencies is off topic! You'll have to start a new thread for that.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

erics37 said:


> lol hey now, pointing out my inconsistencies is off topic! You'll have to start a new thread for that.


That could be arranged, but which forum would I start it at is the question :laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

When I was working out of the van, by myself, I kept some wierd hours. I kind of kept it forty-for-forty, if you know what I mean. I even worked a Sunday because I had nothing better going on. 

For some reason, I am not good at providing structure for myself. Now give me a couple pukes and I run that sh1t like boot camp.

I've been told I am a really mean asshole to work for, but one kid told me that I was the only person that ever showed him anything. I guess teaching them makes up for a multitude of sins, its like the tub&tile caulk to a ceiling tile, like a band-aid on a chancre. It like a bag on JuniorJW's mutt's face.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I've been told I am a really mean asshole to work for, but one kid told me that I was the only person that ever showed him anything. I guess teaching them makes up for a multitude of sins, its like the tub&tile caulk to a ceiling tile, like a band-aid on a chancre. It like a bag on JuniorJW's mutt's face.



:laughing::laughing:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> It like a bag on JuniorJW's mutt's face.






I hope the union trained you better than the school system you went to. "It like"....:blink:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> I hope the union trained you better than the school system you went to. "It like"....:blink:


Sorry bud, I type by osmosis. You know what I meant.

What I meant was, you need to quit leaving DNA samples in your pooch.


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