# wireholder: "hook, bolt, nut assembly" ???



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Customer's house knob and weatherhead got detached by sliding ice.
House is classified by POCO as "brick veneer." 
They require a type of knob described as "hook, bolt, and nut assembly." Here's the pic (top left) from their requirements manual. 
Oddly, no suppliers around here have either heard of these, or stock them.
What am I missing? Is this an old school DIY thing that got into the POCO book???


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

mikewillnot said:


> Customer's house knob and weatherhead got detached by sliding ice.
> House is classified by POCO as "brick veneer."
> They require a type of knob described as "hook, bolt, and nut assembly." Here's the pic (top left) from their requirements manual.
> Oddly, no suppliers around here have either heard of these, or stock them.
> What am I missing? Is this an old school DIY thing that got into the POCO book???


Looks like you need to improvise. Make it so it will pull down the house..:thumbsup:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

if you can make your 'knob' hit that stud, it should be good


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

We just use plain-jane eyebolts here.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> Customer's house knob and weatherhead got detached by sliding ice.
> House is classified by POCO as "brick veneer."
> They require a type of knob described as "hook, bolt, and nut assembly." Here's the pic (top left) from their requirements manual.
> Oddly, no suppliers around here have either heard of these, or stock them.
> What am I missing? Is this an old school DIY thing that got into the POCO book???


This is a prime example where having a buddy in your local POCO is necessary.  

That said, contact your POCO and ask one of the trouble crews if they have this hardware on their truck. Most will just give it to you for the asking...especially if you are nice enough to offer a cold six pack as a "gift." :thumbsup:


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm thinking it must be something like this, installed from the inside alongside a stud, with a clevis and insulator on the outside. Nice trick getting the length right. And the POCO's illustration suggests that the J part on the inside of the stud has a hole in it for a nail.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

I second the plain eyebolt...use the all the time.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> I'm thinking it must be something like this, installed from the inside alongside a stud, with a clevis and insulator on the outside. Nice trick getting the length right. And the POCO's illustration suggests that the J part on the inside of the stud has a hole in it for a nail.


That would probably pass with your POCO.. order it long and cut the excess off. 



pjholguin said:


> I second the plain eyebolt...use the all the time.


Good idea, IF his POCO will accept it...but since he has already been told to do it per the POCO book, I'm willing to bet that a plain eyebolt will not pass. 

Keep in mind that the POCO has ultimate authority on this..you do it their way or you won't get connected. :thumbsup:

That said, it never hurts to contact the POCO and ask if there are other methods (such as the plain eyebolt) that they would accept.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mxslick said:


> That would probably pass with your POCO.. order it long and cut the excess off............



Most here would fail it. It's too easy to 'open' the hook and loose the support.

Our requirements:


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

They mostly just require the attachment be into something solid. Not just screwed into the siding. Here most of the POCOs just require an "Eye bolt" with a washer & nut on both sides of the wall. Or some have square threaded washers that serve as both a nut and washer, still have to be on both sides of the wall.

I would just ask your POCO to clarify, show you what it is, or ask if you can use an Eye bolt.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

I believe the most important component is the fact that it is a through bolt with a nut on the back side and go through a structural member. They don't want you to use masonry anchors and pull the brick off the wall. A long 3/8" eye bolt should work just fine.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Our needs to be insulated. They make one that we can bolt thru with allthread. I will look for a pick or go back and take one.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Minimum here is a 3/8 eyebolt . I see plenty of them installed in 3/8 plywood or 3/4 pine doomed to failure.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

480sparky said:


> Most here would fail it. It's too easy to 'open' the hook and loose the support.


I suspect a misunderstanding -- although it could be mine. I believe, from the POCO illustration, that the J or hook part of the example I posted would go on the INSIDE, wrapped around and nailed to the stud, and the threaded bolt part would go on the OUTSIDE, with a clevis and insulator. 

clearly, I need to get with a line crew and ask what they **** they're talking about, and see if they have an example on the truck. Oddly, none of my fellow wizards that I know around here have ever been required to use such a gizmo, even though it's in the book. WT*?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Our needs to be insulated. .....


I'd like to hear the logic behind this requirement.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

480sparky said:


> I'd like to hear the logic behind this requirement.


Me too. The tie-off points required here are insulator knobs.

like this -- except I don't get the one on the left. 











or like this


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

I've actually seen these screwed into a roof to anchor a guy-wire on a pipe mast riser. Must not have had a lag screw eye on the truck.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I'd like to hear the logic behind this requirement.


Doesn't seem that crazy to me. With steel siding and other conductive surfaces being pretty common. I am OK with it. 
You can look up some utilities in my area. 
OPPD
NPPD
Fremont Dept of Utilites. 
They all require it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Doesn't seem that crazy to me. With steel siding and other conductive surfaces being pretty common. I am OK with it.
> You can look up some utilities in my area.
> OPPD
> NPPD
> ...


But WHY doesn't it seem crazy? You're 'just used' to doing it that way, yet have you ever pondered WHY? You're attaching the GROUNDed conductor to the POA. What's so inherently dangerous about the grounded being connected to a metal POA? If you have a meter/disco combo, you're bonding the grounded conductor to the tub, aren't you? And if you mount this meter/disco to metal siding..........




People in Chicago have been_ piping_ houses for decades, as NM is not allowed.... yet _NONE_ of them know WHY they are required to do so.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

480sparky said:


> But WHY doesn't it seem crazy? You're 'just used' to doing it that way, yet have you ever pondered WHY? You're attaching the GROUNDed conductor to the POA. What's so inherently dangerous about the grounded being connected to a metal POA? If you have a meter/disco combo, you're bonding the grounded conductor to the tub, aren't you? And if you mount this meter/disco to metal siding..........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not arguing. Just stating the rules. I am OK with it. I wish they would make us pipe homes. I also love arc-faults. $$$


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

OK -- back to the original problem... the so-called "bolt-hook-nut assembly." Studying the poco illustration I posted. The page includes the following:

Image of "brick veneer" installation:









Just for comparison, image of block wall installation:









Here's the assembly, in parts:









looked at this way, I can probably find the bolt and the nut. It's the "hook" that puzzles me now. POCO attaches their service drop to it, presumably with what they call a "bail," the twisty u-shaped wire thing that deadends the service drop neutral. I assume since poco specs throughout require 600v insulating knobs, that it's an insulator of some sort. I've looked around the interwebs, mostly at equipment manufacturers like MacLean, Hubbel, Halex and such, and found nothing whatsoever. Hmmmmmmmmm.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Dude, buy some alltread and a coupling. Go into the attic and bolt it thru a 2X between the studs.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Dude, buy some alltread and a coupling. Go into the attic and bolt it thru a 2X between the studs.


Dude -- that won't work. The spot (already existing service) is high on the second floor under a roof eave. Under a roof eave. Plus, if the non-existent wall you think I might have access to from the inside of the attic were also brick veneer on the outside, I'd still have this problem. If it weren't, I could just use a regular house knob. The problem is the kind of wall -- brick veneer -- and the POCO requirement. I don't get to tell them what's a better idea -- if I had one. And what's "alltread," anyway?

Ah. You mean "all thread." Perhaps that would work -- given that I'll have to open a spot on the inside wall anyway, with a slight notch in the stud and a fender washer. I'd want to get them to sign off first. I don't want to do this two or three times.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

mikewillnot said:


> Dude -- that won't work. The spot (already existing service) is high on the second floor under a roof eave. Under a roof eave. Plus, if the non-existent wall you think I might have access to from the inside of the attic were also brick veneer on the outside, I'd still have this problem. If it weren't, I could just use a regular house knob. The problem is the kind of wall -- brick veneer -- and the POCO requirement. I don't get to tell them what's a better idea -- if I had one. And what's "alltread," anyway?
> 
> Ah. You mean "all thread." Perhaps that would work -- given that I'll have to open a spot on the inside wall anyway, with a slight notch in the stud and a fender washer. I'd want to get them to sign off first. I don't want to do this two or three times.


Can you put some strut across a few studs? Ugly but strong.


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