# Moral Dilemma



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

The work is a reflection of how the company is run. It's quick and dirty because that's how the guys are pushed and that's what's tolerated. You can report it, but I'd bet a lot of money nothing will change, except now you've got a bullseye on your back.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I cover for most guys and tell them what was wrong. If they are a butt head then next time I don't cover.. We all know who the shop slugs are.. Sometimes the bosses know and cover the slugs to death do them part.. 

Case in point, a co-worker who has been late, AWOL, sleeping on the job, doing rotten work these past few years finely went over the hill last week.. He was found after hours, in a mechanical room working a job he screwed up weeks ago. A woman heard some noise and called the cops. 
They showed up, opened the door and,,,,,,, (I ain't making this next part up),,, found him sitting there in black gloves, black knit hat and his underwear.... When asked why he was naked his reply was, "I was hot". 
Asked what was he doing, the answer was, "working?".. Ya right he was caught with his pants down scrapping.
He had no identification so they called a coworker to come vouch for him. The person played it off as being his boss and took him home. Now the real boss covered for him and the coworker and it looks like that's the end of it...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BucketofJoules said:


> So, I have been noticing a lack of pride in guys' work, code violations, and have been going back on jobs because of forgotten tasks and things not working. This has been going on for a while and I usually try to cover it up for fellow electricians or just look the other way; however, recently it has happened too much and I finally reported it to our general manager. I work with a small bunch of guys at a local service branch of a large electrical contractor. The last straw was when I had to go back to add receptacles onto circuits that some guys recently added. Just pulling the joints out of a j-box to see how my co-worker wired it so I could add on to that ckt, and the home run neutral popped out! Of course, they were sharing neutral between 3 phases (using SP breakers without grouping btw) and, luckily, only one phase had load on it at that point so nothing let the smoke out. I consider my fellow journeyman friends, but I don't do that kind of work- I take steps to ensure my work is up to code and functionally sound. Ive been seeing it everywhere on everyones jobs, not like its just one guy. Yes, I reported it and tomorrow we have been called to a meeting over the situation. Surely, I will be a pariah from here on out, but I couldn't sit by and watch any longer. Am I a total rat-****? Or did I do the right thing?


If all the guys know that you squealed then they will just cut your tires and stuff:laughing:

Hopefully your boss handles this like a professional and does not bring up that it was you.

You care about quality and craftsmanship and so should your boss.


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## BucketofJoules (Jul 18, 2013)

Big John said:


> The work is a reflection of how the company is run. It's quick and dirty because that's how the guys are pushed and that's what's tolerated. You can report it, but I'd bet a lot of money nothing will change, except now you've got a bullseye on your back.


Probably true on this set of jobs we did. But, our few guys are well-paid and they know how to do proper work. They may not all be up to date on code, though. Could be mgmt is a little lenient. Prob will have a bullseye! Oh well, I've been fired and rehired once- I pretty much do things right now. Only reason I did it is because I know nobody will really get in trouble. Just a group talk- and I think that needs to happen.


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## BucketofJoules (Jul 18, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> I cover for most guys and tell them what was wrong. If they are a butt head then next time I don't cover.. We all know who the shop slugs are.. Sometimes the bosses know and cover the slugs to death do them part..
> 
> Case in point, a co-worker who has been late, AWOL, sleeping on the job, doing rotten work these past few years finely went over the hill last week..


I usually do that also, I will call and tell them that they almost screwed me with their shotty work or you shouldn't bond neutrals and grounds in your separately derived source and your new panel, etc...LOL

Ive known these guys a while now- I just couldn't take it anymore- some brand new servers almost got burned up on that last little incident- and it would have been my a&$ in a sling.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

BucketofJoules said:


> I usually do that also, I will call and tell them that they almost screwed me with their shotty work or you shouldn't bond neutrals and grounds in your separately derived source and your new panel, etc...LOL
> 
> Ive known these guys a while now- I just couldn't take it anymore- some brand new servers almost got burned up on that last little incident- and it would have been my a&$ in a sling.


I'll trade you, your Corporal Bonder for our Captain Underoo.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Wirenuting said:


> ...Now the real boss covered for him and the coworker and it looks like that's the end of it...


 Exactly. I believed this before I was a supervisor, and being a supervisor just re-enforced it: "Any failure in business is a failure of management."

If the guys are screwing up and continually doing shoddy work, it's because that's how their bosses want it, or else they simply don't care to find out about it and stop it. Unless you're in a position of authority, or you know someone high enough up the food chain who might actually care, you are beating your head against a wall.

Ever watch the movie _Serpico?_ :whistling2:


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## BucketofJoules (Jul 18, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> I'll trade you, your Corporal Bonder for our Captain Underoo.


Lmao- I think you'll have to throw in some minor-leaguers or draft picks too to make it worth it.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Big John said:


> Exactly. I believed this before I was a supervisor, and being a supervisor just re-enforced it: "Any failure in business is a failure of management."
> 
> If the guys are screwing up and continually doing shoddy work, it's because that's how their bosses want it, or else they simply don't care to find out about it and stop it. Unless you're in a position of authority, or you know someone high enough up the food chain who might actually care, you are beating your head against a wall.
> 
> Ever watch the movie Serpico? :whistling2:


I agree, for the most part I stopped rowing up stream.. I just do my best and go home.. 





BucketofJoules said:


> Lmao- I think you'll have to throw in some minor-leaguers or draft picks too to make it worth it.


That's ok, you don't need to throw them minor-leaguers or draft picks my way...


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

BucketofJoules said:


> So, I have been noticing a lack of pride in guys' work, code violations, and have been going back on jobs because of forgotten tasks and things not working. This has been going on for a while and I usually try to cover it up for fellow electricians or just look the other way; however, recently it has happened too much and I finally reported it to our general manager. I work with a small bunch of guys at a local service branch of a large electrical contractor. The last straw was when I had to go back to add receptacles onto circuits that some guys recently added. Just pulling the joints out of a j-box to see how my co-worker wired it so I could add on to that ckt, and the home run neutral popped out! Of course, they were sharing neutral between 3 phases (using SP breakers without grouping btw) and, luckily, only one phase had load on it at that point so nothing let the smoke out. I consider my fellow journeyman friends, but I don't do that kind of work- I take steps to ensure my work is up to code and functionally sound. Ive been seeing it everywhere on everyones jobs, not like its just one guy. Yes, I reported it and tomorrow we have been called to a meeting over the situation. Surely, I will be a pariah from here on out, but I couldn't sit by and watch any longer. Am I a total rat-****? Or did I do the right thing?


Just my opinion but if you were being paid to go back and do some work you should just do as you say you do...a good job. It is your super's job to NOTICE that you have to go back too often, and for what reason.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

You followed your conscience. I will never fault a guy for that.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

99cents said:


> You followed your conscience. I will never fault a guy for that.


 to me it depends on if the guy has a conscience? but way to go


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

lemme guess, we put the boots to the guys for production, then pick them apart for the flaws?

~CS~


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> If all the guys know that you squealed then they will just cut your tires and stuff:laughing:


Just let those fer's know you carry a knife too. Someone slashes my tires gets a criminal report and a spycam on their azz.


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## BucketofJoules (Jul 18, 2013)

So, just to conclude: We had the meeting with everyone, and it went down pretty much as expected. Everyone got their collective peepee lightly slapped. The lack of no real consequences in this instance is probably also the cause of the problems- go figure. Nobody was singled out, and some issues were addressed. One good thing is we have a new shop rule- no sharing neutrals under any circumstances without GM approval. Hopefully people will follow the rule; it would definitely be helpful if we ever have to go back on jobs and add onto circuits that can't be de-energized. Eliminates the possibility of frying stuff due to losing a home-run neutral, caused by us or other people in the future, too. Safety policy compliance was also addressed. Nowadays, at our company for sure, safety is a huge priority- especially Hot Work. NFPA standards are met and exceeded in most cases. It was made clear that anyone caught breaking the rules will be immediately terminated- _zero tolerance policy_ (which I hate). Our GM pointed out that our core group is very well paid and he expects perfection every day, every job. Of course, I'm the only one who could ever come close to realizing that standard/dream! :001_tongue: I think it was positive overall, and my tires have not been slashed- YET! LOL :thumbsup:

Thanks for everyone's input. Rome wasn't built in a day.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> I cover for most guys and tell them what was wrong. If they are a butt head then next time I don't cover.. We all know who the shop slugs are.. Sometimes the bosses know and cover the slugs to death do them part..
> 
> Case in point, a co-worker who has been late, AWOL, sleeping on the job, doing rotten work these past few years finely went over the hill last week.. He was found after hours, in a mechanical room working a job he screwed up weeks ago. A woman heard some noise and called the cops.
> They showed up, opened the door and,,,,,,, (I ain't making this next part up),,, found him sitting there in black gloves, black knit hat and his underwear.... When asked why he was naked his reply was, "I was hot".
> ...


Scrapping?
It that what they call it now a days?


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