# Help! Automation ?



## sseftner (Dec 30, 2014)

So i have a customer who is building a huge room train set . He had already had an electrician come in and wire multiple switch and outlet feeds. He wants to be able to hit a button and one set of lights gradually come up and then every 6 mins one set fade out and another come on and just keep this on a pattern untill he turns off. Any suggestions to what i can use to accomplish this ?!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

You could build a lighting panel with on delay relays. You would need a relay for each set of lights.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Lutron dimming panel?


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## sseftner (Dec 30, 2014)

i was thinking lutron was the way to go considering its already roughed out in switch boxes the control panel might not be an option . i have talked it out with him trying to elimiate the 6 min portion and just run a handheld remote and the lutron to me would be ideal .. thoughts?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Not 100% certain......its been awhile since I've worked with one.....but aren't some Lutron panels programmable? Couldn't the six minute delay be programmed into one.


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

We do this all the time, there's a few ways you could accomplish this. What is your role in this system? You said he already had an electrician come in and do some wiring, are you taking over the project? 

The best way to do it would be through what we call DMX. It's a protocol lighting control systems talk via a controller in the theater and entertainment world. Along with amusement parks and museums.

Of course cost becomes a question, so are you looking for a quick fix solution, something permanent that he'll never want to change the programming, or something that has flexibility to change and grow? 

Basically the short version of it, you need dimmers or switches that can be controlled by some type of system, be it home automation or more of a theatrical application. Could recommend a number of options for you just let me know the scope you're looking to go into it's all really easy to put together. 

Hit button A - this list of actions happen
Hit button B- this list of actions happen

Where it's different than your regular home automation system is with the timing but most home automation stuff could handle that with a macro too. I would say not to eliminate anything he wants as its all easily accomplished. The question more so would be is he willing to spend a little?


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Great post Edrick...


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I love edrick he's totally awesome at what he does. Utmost respect here. However, I recommended buying a $ 19 relay for each set of lights and he recommend turning this into the dubstep light house. ......


2014 Johnson Family Dubstep Christmas Light Show …: http://youtu.be/4PJuVgWZwj4


Lo l... Luv ya dude


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## sseftner (Dec 30, 2014)

Yes I'm taking over all the individual switch legs are already in place .sheet rock is up taped and painted . Are there DMx controlled switches I can put in place of these sp switches ? I have used DMx to controller other things like color kinetics and intelligent lighting with light jockey but never a system like this . I am pushing him towards justins using a remote with lutron and setting up scenes for him . It was the 6 min intervals that were throwing a monkey wrench into my day


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I love eejack, he's totally awesome at what he does. Utmost respect here. However, I recommended buying a $ 19 relay for each set of lights and he recommend turning this into the dubstep light house. ......
> 
> 
> 2014 Johnson Family Dubstep Christmas Light Show …: http://youtu.be/4PJuVgWZwj4
> ...


I took it as it was something where there's a bunch of different areas he wants to light up at different times. Perhaps each having its own timing variance. 

Example:

Button Press A:
Train Setup One dims on 5 second
Hold x minutes 
Dim out 5 seconds + Dim In 5 Seconds Train Setup 2 
Hold x minutes
Dim out Train Setup 2 5 seconds
Bring up train setup 3 and 4 @ 50%

Suppose it all depends on the depth the customer wants the system to operate on. 

But If he's just looking for solely having it just stay on for a set time then keep it simple, that's the way to go. So a relay set totally would work in that case :thumbsup:

My guess is that video they used the Light-O-Rama controller, which could be used in an application like that. Light-O-Rama basically has a pack that has a bunch of dimmer channels that are controlled via a synchronized music file or they also make a DMX module to control DMX based products.


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> 2014 Johnson Family Dubstep Christmas Light Show …: http://youtu.be/4PJuVgWZwj4


Any idea how much a light show like that costs?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

xpertpc said:


> Any idea how much a light show like that costs?


Actually no, but I bet edrick does.


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## sparkywannabee (Jan 29, 2013)

Get a micrologix 1000 and a Hoffman enclosure, program should be really easy to write. Automationdirect plc's come with free software, i believe.


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

A PLC/SLC with the amount of analog I/O necessary to do all the fade in/out and follow the tempo of music would be prohibitively expensive. 

Although a PLC can certainly be part of a system like this it is by no means even a fraction of the entire system, it can however drive the ancillary power components that have built in robots that ultimately control the lighting and music.

I'm gonna do this some day and I have both micrologix and automation direct plcs and am still $1000 away.


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

Sorry if I came across a bit crass, I suppose my 40 I/O with 4 analog could drive two zero crossing solid state relays for the dimming effect and music inputs, but on that large of a scale (at least in that youtube video) it would need gobs of analog and power components.

BTW gobs is a technical term just like the slug, go figure.


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

The controllers from light o Rama are around $300-$400 which is 16 channels. 

Now depending on the route they go you can go with incandescent strings. LED strings. Which you see at home depot for example. 

So figure about $10 per good incandescent string and $15-25 for good LED. Now mind you those strings aren't very long. 

Now your channel count in a traditional world would be one per color. So figure RGB. So three channels and usually they're setup per window for example. So if your front has 6 windows you're already at 18 channels. 

So the controllers and traditional strings can add up fast. 

So a traditional Christmas syncronized show on a house like that easily will run you a few grand. 

Now the video above is a LED RGB strip system. Which you won't find at big box stores. Instead of individual strings that are all red or green or blue it's a single strip and usually the LED mixes the color. So one LED is RGB. These run of 12 or 24v and talk to a controller. Those are about $50-$75 for a good outdoor rated one. 

Now we go next step up which they also have on this video which is the pathway things that are like arches and do chase patterns. Each led is addressable. Basically we call it a pixel. Think jumbo tron screens but long. You can actually stack them and make a low resolution video wall. The ones that can be individually addressed start at about $75 -$150.

Then all the shapes and trees and decorations. I'd say that guy spent around $10k 

It all depends too on where you're sourcing. Are you coming from China? An online distributor who specializes in Christmas displays? A manufacturer like Philips color kinetics or lumen pulse? 

Per the OP I got your PM I'll shoot you over a response tomorrow. I just got back from my new studio. We're in the move in process. 

The real fun stuff comes in with commercial installs. You go from taking a hundred to a few hundred bucks for RGB led stuff for your Christmas decorations to thousands of dollars per fixture. 

Actually as I'm writing this my dealer application just came in from ENTTECH. Check those guys out to see more of the professional stuff. 

Luckily we have both color kinetics by Phillips and lumen pulse right here in the Boston area. Color kinetics is actually two minutes away from me. I'll probably reach out to them and do a episode about their products and you guys can watch it online. 

The attached photos were just from messing around earlier and all the junk came out of the old storage room. Got to sort through it all and figure out where it'll be distributed to. The panorama photo is funny like that because the LED PAR cans we have on the floor go to the music. 



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Lutron graffic eye can do a lot with no control panel. Simply using interface mods. 
I know its pricey but may be worth talking to a rep.


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