# Take Community Class or Electrical Program ?



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

It depends on who is asking for Cs in algebra. Because Ds in algebra and an electrical course in community college won't get you into my local. If you can't pass algebra we don't want you at all.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> If you can't pass algebra we don't want you at all.


No worries, OP. 6 month vocational school and a private company are all you need to get started. Small businesses are begging for workers who want (and are capable) to learn. Leave it to the union to hold popularity contests over who's son gets which jobs. 👍


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ohm it hertz said:


> No worries, OP. 6 month vocational school and a private company are all you need to get started. Small businesses are begging for workers who want (and are capable) to learn. Leave it to the union to hold popularity contests over who's son gets which jobs. 👍


Great advice if you want to be a bottom feeder. 
You know your weakness, work on it. Ace it, become the algebra guru. 
Why wouldn't you do that??


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The OP didn't say he's applying to any union local. Are there locals that look at their prospects' grades in algebra? I thought they just looked at test scores. 

If he takes an algebra course it won't change his high school grades, but it could get him a higher score on the test that, depending on the local, might help him get in the union. Anyone looking to start in the field should be looking at the IBEW as the gold standard for training and compensation. 

But let's be real, in many of the most exclusive and desirable locals, including one that has been mentioned, you could have Isaac Newton's scores and grades in algebra, and you're not getting in unless there's an Ebeneezer Newton member getting you in. Unless maybe if you can token for some checkbox they're looking to check off.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

splatz said:


> But let's be real, in many of the most exclusive and desirable locals, including one that has been mentioned, you could have Isaac Newton's scores and grades in algebra, and you're not getting in unless there's an Ebeneezer Newton member getting you in.


That ^ was the cause of my early anti-union feelings. They have moderated.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

Southeast Power said:


> Great advice if you want to be a bottom feeder.
> You know your weakness, work on it. Ace it, become the algebra guru.
> Why wouldn't you do that??


Hey, I never said the OP shouldn't ace algebra. I _did_ say they can start out in the trade with a voc school and a private company until they figure it out. 

Better than nothing.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Your not real clear on who is wanting a C grade. What was the driving reason for doing so poorly? If you did not apply your self then take classes, if it did not make any sense then get a tutor. I had to have one for algerbra to pass the high school class. Not really sure why it was necessary I never use it any more.

I never saw the need for all the higher math. What I did for decades it was much more important to be able to bend pipe correctly than anything else. Learning the ins and outs of a tape measure was far more important. It is not like the average worker is doing fault, or arc flash studies. They are adding subtracting and a bit of division for the daily work. 

I was no wiz at algerbra did well with geometry. Learn the 3-4-5 triangle so you can do lay out and the bosses will be happy.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

SWDweller said:


> I had to have one for algerbra to pass the high school class. Not really sure why it was necessary I never use it any more.


IMO the higher math classes (like Algebra and Geometry) teach one to think and reason. I bet you use what your learned from those classes without realizing it. 

I did well in both in high school (trig also). I thought I was hot stuff. Then, 1st year of college, took Calculus and hit a brick wall. F of what? Huh?


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Math is an important part of the trade but it's not the only trait needed to be an electrician. I got a D in algebra and an B in geometry. In high school it might just have been a bad teacher or lack of interest but it's not something to worry about if you want to get into the trade. I don't really like the term "bottom feeder" but it is what it is. Most of the work an electrician does is simply installation of components and understanding how they function. 

To make a long story short.

It depends on how far you want to advance in the trade and how how much physical labor you want to be doing when you get to be an old person. Having good math skills is important and it might even help you land a job in some cases. Especially if you are required to do programing and other things that require advanced math. Algebra will also be important when you take your test to become a journeyman. 

You could be a math wiz and still not work out in the electrical trade if you are lazy, afraid of heights, have a bad memory or just don't have poor skills working with your hands. 
Most of the jobs that are posted on sites like indeed what Journeyman electricians so Algebra would be something to focus on. 

We all play an important part in the trade and it's a craft that takes many years to learn. I have met several Journeyman electricians that just don't cut the mustard and probably got an A in algebra.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard @jhoanreyes!

Take an online remedial algebra class and you should be fine.

Study math for free – Mathplanet


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Figure out what math class format works for you. I got crap grade in regular highschool, but a compressed summer-school course (4hrs daily, 5weeks) I was able to pull off an A.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

It seems the only algebra you need to know is in an Uglys book & maybe the algebra(?) needed to run concentric bends. It might be a lot easier if you had electrical word problems at some point.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

This is an algebraic problem, take the formula i=e/r and solve for r.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Easy said:


> This is an algebraic problem, take the formula i=e/r and solve for r.


If the load draws 10amps & the applied voltage is 120 volts what is the resistance of the load?
(hint google Uglys book)


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

oldsparky52 said:


> That ^ was the cause of my early anti-union feelings. They have moderated.


It’s easy to get sucked into less than PW wages and not be able to get out of it due to being chronically broke.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Southeast Power said:


> It’s easy to get sucked into less than PW wages and not be able to get out of it due to being chronically broke.


Well, someone's got to be broke, unions won't take everyone, and like was stated, a lot of times it's who you blow, not how good an electrician you are or could be.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

ohm it hertz said:


> No worries, OP. 6 month vocational school and a private company are all you need to get started. Small businesses are begging for workers who want (and are capable) to learn. Leave it to the union to hold popularity contests over who's son gets which jobs. 👍


By and large, small business are begging for workers who are hungry and ignorant and oblivious to the reality that they will be taught how to install and chewed up for as long as possible and then spit out when the worker comes to the realization that they're worth more and want a higher wage. So out with the old and here comes hungry hungry small business all fresh and ready for a new young keen ignorant kid to exploit. This is of course why small business have such a high turnover rate, are always hiring, and there's waiting lists to get into trade unions.



splatz said:


> The OP didn't say he's applying to any union local. Are there locals that look at their prospects' grades in algebra? I thought they just looked at test scores.


A final grade of C or better in Algegra 1 is required to apply in most locals.


> If he takes an algebra course it won't change his high school grades, but it could get him a higher score on the test that, depending on the local, might help him get in the union. Anyone looking to start in the field should be looking at the IBEW as the gold standard for training and compensation.
> 
> But let's be real, in many of the most exclusive and desirable locals, including one that has been mentioned, you could have Isaac Newton's scores and grades in algebra, and you're not getting in unless there's an Ebeneezer Newton member getting you in. Unless maybe if you can token for some checkbox they're looking to check off.


This may be true I dunno, In my local I always ask the apprentices who is your rabbi and most do not have any family or relatives in the local at all. This wasn't the case a couple decades ago - but the nonunion and republican factions in government and industry sued and made the departments of labor oversee union apprenticeships and monitor the selection process decades ago. 



SWDweller said:


> Your not real clear on who is wanting a C grade. What was the driving reason for doing so poorly? If you did not apply your self then take classes, if it did not make any sense then get a tutor. I had to have one for algerbra to pass the high school class. Not really sure why it was necessary I never use it any more.


When you offer an apprenticeship and you want the brightest people you can get, you have to start somewhere to eliminate most of the chitheads and hope to end up with the cream of the crop. That is not to say an illiterate, math-deficient, high school dropout can't learn to become one of the best electricians you have ever met... but if you have 2 people like that and 30 that are literate, passed algebra and graduated high school and have to hire only 2 of them... how would you start your process of elimination?


> I never saw the need for all the higher math. What I did for decades it was much more important to be able to bend pipe correctly than anything else. Learning the ins and outs of a tape measure was far more important. It is not like the average worker is doing fault, or arc flash studies. They are adding subtracting and a bit of division for the daily work.
> 
> I was no wiz at algerbra did well with geometry. Learn the 3-4-5 triangle so you can do lay out and the bosses will be happy.


Knowing and understanding geometry and algebra indicate a capable level of thinking. It's not that you need to perform quadratic equations on the jobsite... but the fact that you can means you can figure other complex problems out as well, and often electrical work requires a degree of problem solving skills. 



oldsparky52 said:


> IMO the higher math classes (like Algebra and Geometry) teach one to think and reason. I bet you use what your learned from those classes without realizing it.
> 
> I did well in both in high school (trig also). I thought I was hot stuff. Then, 1st year of college, took Calculus and hit a brick wall. F of what? Huh?


Shame on that college, that's a stupid place to build a brick wall right in the calculus classroom.



u2slow said:


> Figure out what math class format works for you. I got crap grade in regular highschool, but a compressed summer-school course (4hrs daily, 5weeks) I was able to pull off an A.


Sometimes a class is taught by a crappy teacher that doesn't "speak to you." Or the class came right after a class you had issues with, or before a class that gave you anxiety. And sometimes it's just those Barnett twins in the next row with the huge... tracks of land that caused you to flunk.



oldsparky52 said:


> Well, someone's got to be broke, unions won't take everyone, and like was stated, a lot of times it's who you blow, not how good an electrician you are or could be.


May come as a shock but unions are and have been nothing but competitive for the better part of 3 decades now. The biggest problem with people getting in is coming from tiny locals in the sticks who seem to take anyone who will pay their dues and pass the classes, and then unleash them as perpetual travelers into any local that has work for them, to satisfy the international's mandates to grow the membership rolls - as opposed to the "elite" locals making sure their lazy undeserving spawn have a lifetime gig.

And if we're being honest, if you want to see rampant nepotism and entitlement mentality - just look at who runs work in any nonunion shop.[/quote][/quote]


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> A final grade of C or better in Algegra 1 is required to apply in most locals.
> 
> The biggest problem with people getting in is coming from tiny locals in the sticks who seem to take anyone who will pay their dues and pass the classes, and then unleash them as perpetual travelers into any local that has work for them, to satisfy the international's mandates to grow the membership rolls - as opposed to the "elite" locals making sure their lazy undeserving spawn have a lifetime gig.


My local went by their own math pre-test. No BS'ing your way in. It was also the largest local in BC and probably easiest for the 'unconnected' individual to join. 

These types of threads really open my eyes as to how different union experiences can be.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

"Peoples is peoples, eh?"


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