# Handle Extender for Pipe Wrench/OSHA



## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

Has anyone seen an OSHA approved "cheater bar" for bigger pipe wrenches? I found the link below but don't see an OSHA blessing anywhere.

Occasionally we have to remove 4" bushings from steel tanks that were installed years ago by gorillas who used tru blu pipe dope and 4' wrenches. There's some nice corrosion too.

They're usually a struggle to remove even with a 4' pipe wrench and 2 guys. Working space is sometimes also limited and the large jaws of the 4' 'er limit access to the bushing.

I've heard that there's some king of solvent that will melt the pipe dope, but i'm skeptical. That stuff is like epoxy. PB Blaster doesn't do anything.

Can't use a torch due to being in a classified location. 

https://sites.google.com/site/brucekcampbell/home/pipe-wrench-handle-extender


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

This thread may help...
https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?125118-what-gets-pipe-dope-out-of-clothes
https://www.reddit.com/r/Plumbing/comments/6pil59/how_to_get_pipe_dope_off_your_hands/



btw finger nail polish remover is acetone IIRC.


epoxy solvents
https://www.google.com/search?q=epoxy+solvent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Looks interisting . Looks to a piece of Sch 40 pipe with a hole drilled through it and a pin to keep it from slipping off.
If a major utility uses it I am saying that it is porobably good with OHSA.

LC


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## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

Bird dog said:


> This thread may help...
> https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?125118-what-gets-pipe-dope-out-of-clothes
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Plumbing/comments/6pil59/how_to_get_pipe_dope_off_your_hands/
> 
> ...


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

Just Do it.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

zoltan said:


> Can't use a torch due to being in a classified location.


So, no portabands, sawzalls, hammers, chisels, grinders?


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Galt said:


> Just Do it.



I agree.


Sometimes you just have to get things done, I'd use some common sense and don't stand under the cheater pipe when you're bearing down on it and everything will be okay. No matter what the government may think.


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## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

Bird dog said:


> So, no portabands, sawzalls, hammers, chisels, grinders?


Correct. I have a 2lb brass hammer but not a brass chisel


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

zoltan said:


> Has anyone seen an OSHA approved "cheater bar" for bigger pipe wrenches? I found the link below but don't see an OSHA blessing anywhere.
> 
> Occasionally we have to remove 4" bushings from steel tanks that were installed years ago by gorillas who used tru blu pipe dope and 4' wrenches. There's some nice corrosion too.
> 
> ...


Is a classified location a fire risk? 

I'm going the other way because I've seen a 36 inch pipe wrench break cutting off the guy's nose. He was tightening a mud pump on a rig. I took him and his nose to the hospital.

Can you use a type of heater that plugs in like a large soldering iron or charcoal starter? 










How about a custom made branding iron?


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## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

Cow said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> Sometimes you just have to get things done, I'd use some common sense and don't stand under the cheater pipe when you're bearing down on it and everything will be okay. No matter what the government may think.


Yeah, it's not just the govt. My fairly large company is Very safety concerned. They will spend the time and $$ to make sure our work is as safe as it can be. Fine by me, they'll be paying for the Extender if it gets approved by the safety dept.


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## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

LARMGUY said:


> Is a classified location a fire risk?
> 
> I'm going the other way because I've seen a 36 inch pipe wrench break cutting off the guy's nose. He was tightening a mud pump on a rig. I took him and his nose to the hospital.
> 
> ...



I'v been told that nothing above 24vdc is allowed inside the tank farm containment berm. Not sure if that's an actual standard, but I've never seen any higher voltage in those areas.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

zoltan said:


> I'v been told that nothing above 24vdc is allowed inside the tank farm containment berm. Not sure if that's an actual standard, but I've never seen any higher voltage in those areas.


Twelve volt heaters...
https://www.google.com/search?q=12volt+charcoal+heater&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab


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## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

Bird dog said:


> Twelve volt heaters...
> https://www.google.com/search?q=12volt+charcoal+heater&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab


Interesting. I'm not sure if that would fly in a C1 Div2 area? 

I'm going to suss out the Extension angle first though


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Well Crap!

Join a gym.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

zoltan said:


> Interesting. I'm not sure if that would fly in a C1 Div2 area?
> 
> I'm going to suss out the Extension angle first though


Google is NOT your friend but...


> Class I, Division 2 or Zone 2 classified locations
> An area where ignitable concentrations of flammable gases, vapors or liquids* are not likely to exist under normal operating conditions.* In this area the gas, vapor or liquids would only be present under abnormal conditions (most often leaks under abnormal conditions). As a general guide for Zone 2, unwanted substances should only be present under 10 hours/year or 0–0.1% of the time.


Get a hotwork permit and git R done.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

zoltan said:


> Interesting. I'm not sure if that would fly in a C1 Div2 area?
> 
> I'm going to suss out the Extension angle first though


idk...I'm just throwing out ideas.


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## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

LARMGUY said:


> Google is NOT your friend but...
> 
> 
> Get a hotwork permit and git R done.


I messed up on the classification, It would be C1,Div1 on top of the tanks, where the bushings are. "Normal Ops" are venting and open hatches for gauging, replacing parts, more than 10 hours a year(on certain locations anyway)

Still, I think it would be more likely to get the Extension approved before an electric heating device. At least they've seen cheater bars in use. 

I'm not sure how common 12v heaters are in the oilfield, I've not seen one in my 5 years here, but these 4" bushings are the only item we have a hard time removing. I've never seen a roustabout crew bust out an electric heater to remove a stubborn anything. (just their banged up old cheater pipe, haha)


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

zoltan said:


> I messed up on the classification, It would be C1,Div1 on top of the tanks, where the bushings are. "Normal Ops" are venting and open hatches for gauging, replacing parts, more than 10 hours a year(on certain locations anyway)
> 
> Still, I think it would be more likely to get the Extension approved before an electric heating device. At least they've seen cheater bars in use.
> 
> I'm not sure how common 12v heaters are in the oilfield, I've not seen one in my 5 years here, but these 4" bushings are the only item we have a hard time removing. I've never seen a roustabout crew bust out an electric heater to remove a stubborn anything. (just their banged up old cheater pipe, haha)


Now that that has been cleared up. Cheater bar, but don't hold it down when someone else is jumping on the cheater bar if you want to keep your good looks.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

There is a product called Freeze and Release or something like that made by Loctite if I remember correctly.
The idea is that both heat and cold will cause a change in the metal.
I immediately thought of using Dry Ice when you mentioned the classed environment.

Found it: 


http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML.htm?nodeid=8802649931777

. LOCTITE Freeze & Release

LOCTITE Freeze & Release penetrating oil instantly freezes seized and rusted bolts, nuts and studs down to -38˚F (-39 ˚C). The exceptional shock-freeze effect of this penetrating oil causes microscopic cracks in the layer of rust, allowing the lubricating ingredient to wick directly into the rust by capillary action. The rusted bolt assembly can be easily dismantled after allowing only 1-2 minutes penetration time.

Features and Benefits:

The assembly is frozen in less than 10 seconds, and should be ready to dismantle in 1-2 minutes.
No hammer, long pipe, torch or cut-off wheel is required.
Released parts remain lubricated and protected from corrosion.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I never underestimate the effect of simply tapping on things with a hammer to get some vibration in the threads, I swear this helps almost every time. 

I never liked the idea of using a big long cheater, just looks like trouble, but I have put a scissors jack to a big pipe wrench, I figure there's a lot less hell to break loose if something gives. 

I thought I had a GREAT idea for a tool but it turns out it isn't original:


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

To remove roto- bindicators on top of cement silos I’ve had to resort to putting a 1/ 2” shackle in the hanger hole in a 36” wrench and use a 1/4 ton mini chain fall pulling on it with it hooked on the iron work. With pressure on it and a 12 oz ball pein hammer tapping the coupling, I’ve had great success getting them loose. Cement makes a excellent thread locker.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> To remove roto- bindicators on top of cement silos I’ve had to resort to putting a 1/ 2” shackle in the hanger hole in a 36” wrench and use a 1/4 ton mini chain fall pulling on it with it hooked on the iron work. With pressure on it and a 12 oz ball pein hammer tapping the coupling, I’ve had great success getting them loose.* Cement makes a excellent thread locker.*


Hence the product known as 'Xpando' tm.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Hence the product known as 'Xpando' tm.


Nice tip...

*Is it possible to take apart a joint that was put together with X-Pando Pipe Joint Compound?* Yes, it is possible, but it is more difficult than other materials. Straining the joint with a wrench will not usually work. The proper procedure is to put a strain on the pipe - with a wrench - while at the same time tapping the fitting all around. Striking the joint will break the expansion bond between the surface and the compound and allow the joint to be turned off.
https://www.xpando.com/pjcfaq.php


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> Nice tip...
> 
> *Is it possible to take apart a joint that was put together with X-Pando Pipe Joint Compound?* Yes, it is possible, but it is more difficult than other materials. Straining the joint with a wrench will not usually work. The proper procedure is to put a strain on the pipe - with a wrench - while at the same time tapping the fitting all around. Striking the joint will break the expansion bond between the surface and the compound and allow the joint to be turned off.
> https://www.xpando.com/pjcfaq.php


I love that stuff as you don't ever have to do more than make the joint up snug, it will expand to tight.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

As for the original question: a length of pipe has always been used to add more torque to a Ridgid pipe wrench, the original handles were cast in a tapered style to accommodate a length of pipe.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> As for the original question: a length of pipe has always been used to add more torque to a Ridgid pipe wrench, the original handles were cast in a tapered style to accommodate a length of pipe.


Strange that someone didn't use or modify locknuts to make it easy to break loose (maybe weld 2 or 3 together?).


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> Strange that someone didn't use or modify locknuts to make it easy to break loose (maybe weld 2 or 3 together?).


I've never had any issues getting fittings apart one way or another. 

I have pipe wrenches up to 5' and was never afraid to use them.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

No locknut can withstand the force of a air chisel with a blunt chisel on it.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

460 Delta said:


> To remove roto- bindicators on top of cement silos I’ve had to resort to putting a 1/ 2” shackle in the hanger hole in a 36” wrench and use a 1/4 ton mini chain fall pulling on it with it hooked on the iron work. With pressure on it and a 12 oz ball pein hammer tapping the coupling, I’ve had great success getting them loose. Cement makes a excellent thread locker.


Bindicators on a lime silo are just as bad. We use the same chain fall trick and a air hammer to get them to break free. This year we have changed to a wire guided radar so hopefully that will be the end of fighting bindicators.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've never had any issues getting fittings apart one way or another.
> 
> I have pipe wrenches up to 5' and was never afraid to use them.


Nothing is more fun when you weigh 160lb soaking wet then having a 300lb gorrila on the other pipe wrench breaking a union apart.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

The bindicators that I have to change are usually very old or have obviously been damaged, I wish more things were as durable as they are. I however am intrigued by the radar bin height system, how do they work (radar I know) and how can they interface with a simple light or a you’re about to blow the house off alarm or as a input to a computer control.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

460 Delta said:


> The bindicators that I have to change are usually very old or have obviously been damaged, I wish more things were as durable as they are. I however am intrigued by the radar bin height system, how do they work (radar I know) and how can they interface with a simple light or a you’re about to blow the house off alarm or as a input to a computer control.


Lime seems to eat the seal and gets to the bearing in the bindicator so 3-4 years was about the best we could get out of them.

The radar is basically a loop powered 4-20ma radar (hart) that has a wire and a weight attached (you quote the length of the wire based on the silo height and they build it for you). 
Instead of the radar pulse being fired and reflecting on dust and anything else in the silo the pulse rides down the cable (not a very technical description of how it works)

I have used them in the past and they seem to work but they only measure where the powder touches the cable and as the powder tends to form the shape of a cone when being used they are not technically accurate.
Wont know for a few months if they are reliable in a silo as we are off season till December. 

We have wired a few outputs for a light and audio alarm to stop the driver when the silo is full as the lime is blown into the silo.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Most level gauges have 1 or 2 dry contact outputs. But you can take them into a cheap PLC analog input like the Toyo Click and have as many outputs as you want.

There are two kinds of radar. The standard one is like an ultrasonic or laser system except less sensitive to fog or dust or an odd shaped pile or some material differences (laser doesn't like coal for instance). Ultrasonic is very inexpensive, laser a little more, and radar gets into the thousands. I've paid under $500 for shortish range ultrasonic and good range laser.

The other is called guided wave that works on a cable. Wherever the surrounding material changes a lot it creates an echo. You can also set them to look from the "bottom up". So for instance if you have a sewage system with a sludge blanket (foam) you can set it to look from the bottom up so it finds the top if the liquid instead of getting confused by the weak echo off the foam or sometimes use both to detect liquid and foam. Guided wave works best where nothing else does but it's expensive. You can also adjust sensitivity for cakey materials.

There are the vibrating point sensors and yo yo systems too. They work ok but lots of upkeep.

For liquids you can use pressure sensors with a large diaphragm or bubblers, or floats or capacitive or conductivity gauges which are all much cheaper.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Forgot one more. If you have a truck scale and you have a weigh feeder, I've tracked alum by just taking weight readings. Add each truck load to a total when it is unloaded and subtract the amount metered out as it gets used. Stick the silo once in a while by hand and fix the running total. Works a lot better than it would seem but you do need a PLC and good weight measurements.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

zoltan said:


> I messed up on the classification, It would be C1,Div1 on top of the tanks, where the bushings are. "Normal Ops" are venting and open hatches for gauging, replacing parts, more than 10 hours a year(on certain locations anyway)
> 
> Still, I think it would be more likely to get the Extension approved before an electric heating device. At least they've seen cheater bars in use.
> 
> I'm not sure how common 12v heaters are in the oilfield, I've not seen one in my 5 years here, but these 4" bushings are the only item we have a hard time removing. I've never seen a roustabout crew bust out an electric heater to remove a stubborn anything. (just their banged up old cheater pipe, haha)


Are these bushings electrically operated? Didn't think so. Turn the work order over to the millwrights, or heavy metals, they'll get it out, it's what they do.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

gpop said:


> Nothing is more fun when you weigh 160lb soaking wet then having a 300lb gorrila on the other pipe wrench breaking a union apart.


A real gorilla would be using two wrenches all by his lonesome...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Are these bushings electrically operated? Didn't think so. Turn the work order over to the millwrights, or heavy metals, they'll get it out, it's what they do.


Are you one of those :it ain't my job" type guys?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Are you one of those :it ain't my job" type guys?


Only when it ain't my job. Millwrights have all the proper tools for that sort of thing. I used to work in a refinery, I've seen what those guys can do. And it's less embarrassing than a sparky trying to work a 4' pipe wrench in a 2' space.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

paulengr said:


> Forgot one more. If you have a truck scale and you have a weigh feeder, I've tracked alum by just taking weight readings. Add each truck load to a total when it is unloaded and subtract the amount metered out as it gets used. Stick the silo once in a while by hand and fix the running total. Works a lot better than it would seem but you do need a PLC and good weight measurements.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


That's how the batchmen watch their inventory now, but bad info in means inventory gets off. All plants but one I tend have a mess on top from blowing off the house at some point. One increment off on the scales and a truck that mysteriously has a extra whatever lbs., means what is in the silo is a educated guess.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Hence the product known as 'Xpando' tm.


It has a additive in it to make it expand no doubt because concrete actually shrinks from the water loss due to excess water used for workability before the set. 
Wow, I sound like a concrete nerd:sad:


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## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

Southeast Power said:


> There is a product called Freeze and Release or something like that made by Loctite if I remember correctly.
> The idea is that both heat and cold will cause a change in the metal.
> I immediately thought of using Dry Ice when you mentioned the classed environment.
> 
> ...


I plan on ordering some of this but I wonder how it works when its already -30f outside, haha. Not that I leave my truck too often when its that cold.


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