# what else fits in a siemens panel



## jjdrees

Can anyone tell me if a cutler hammer CH breaker will fit into a siemens panel??? If not what other breaker will work? thanks


----------



## 480sparky

Breakers that are listed for use in that panel should be on the panel cover.


----------



## handyman78

jjdrees said:


> Can anyone tell me if a cutler hammer CH breaker will fit into a siemens panel??? If not what other breaker will work? thanks


You need a Siemens Breaker! Easily obtained at many home centers- Lowes-HD...


----------



## waco

Different jurisdictions have different rules regarding the breakers to be used in service upgrades. Some want the same name brand in service upgrades while others are okay with any breaker of the right type.

As I recall, Cutler Hammer BR, Homeline, and GE work in a Siemans, but I recommend you use Siemans.


----------



## 480sparky

waco said:


> Different jurisdictions have different rules regarding the breakers to be used in service upgrades. Some want the same name brand in service upgrades while others are okay with any breaker of the right type.


What do you mean by 'same name brand in service upgrades"? If you have an existing C-H panel, you can only upgrade to another C-H?



waco said:


> As I recall, Cutler Hammer BR, Homeline, and GE work in a Siemans, but I recommend you use Siemans.


They may _work_ in a Siemens, but are they _listed for use_ in a Siemens?


----------



## kbsparky

480sparky said:


> ....They may _work_ in a Siemens, but are they _listed for use_ in a Siemens?


The Cutler-Hammer "CL" breakers are _classified_ for use in a Siemens panel. :blink:

I don't think any of them are "listed" except the Siemens brand itself.


----------



## waco

I'd have to say there is a big difference between service panels and the breakers used in service panels. What I wrote means some jurisdictions want GE breakers in a new GE panel; Siemens breakers in a new Siemens panel; QO breakers in a new Square D panel; and Homeline breakers in a new Homeline panel.

Others don't care.

At any rate, a Cutler-Hammer CH breaker won't work in a Siemens.


----------



## MDShunk

The Murray breakers are 100% identical, and probably roll off the same assembly line. I've drilled apart a Muray and a Siemens breaker, and they're part-for-part exactly the same. BUT> Murray breakers are not rated for in a Siemens panel. The Cutler Hammer type CL (not CH) is the only one on the market right now that is rated to go in the Siemens panel, as far as I know, besides a Siemens breaker. If memory serves, the short-lived T&B breaker line was also rated for use in the Siemens panels.


----------



## BIGRED

Yo MD, where you been at?


----------



## waco

I should have included Murray and I agree, I think Murray and Siemens are virtually identical.


----------



## MF Dagger

At one point I think on this very forum there was a picture of a murray arc fault breaker in a siemens box straight from the factory.


----------



## jjdrees

Thanks for everyones input.


----------



## chmed

*Siemens 3 phase panel?*



jjdrees said:


> Can anyone tell me if a cutler hammer CH breaker will fit into a siemens panel??? If not what other breaker will work? thanks


I need to install a breaker temporarily in a 3 phase siemens panel and I don't have complete info on the panel. What I do have is a grainy photo that I took with a cell phone. What I need to do is install a 2 pole breaker to feed a temporary power distro. I've got a 50A dual CH breaker that fits most panels I encounter. Can anyone make out enough from the photo to help direct me? 

thanks


----------



## kbsparky

It's hard to tell, but that looks like a bolt-on panelboard. If that is the case, then no other brand of breaker should "fit" except for the Siemens.


----------



## chmed

kbsparky said:


> It's hard to tell, but that looks like a bolt-on panelboard. If that is the case, then no other brand of breaker should "fit" except for the Siemens.


I stopped by a Siemens distributor and told him it was a "P1" panel and he told me that didn't tell him what he needed to know. He pulled out a Cutler Hammer snap in breaker and said that it was a cheap breaker that might fit. I already had the same breaker in my kit so i didn't take it. Because its a 3 phase panel I had concerns that it would require a special breaker. I've spent some time at the Siemens site trying to find documentation. There is a sea of info that has been difficult to wade through. I guess I need to get the complete numbers off the panel and try to call Siemens. Thanks.


----------



## nyerinfl

kbsparky said:


> It's hard to tell, but that looks like a bolt-on panelboard. If that is the case, then no other brand of breaker should "fit" except for the Siemens.


I agree definetly a bolt on, and a 2-pole 50 for that is expensive, plus you probobly won't find it at big box, most likely you need to find a local siemens distributor.


----------



## nyerinfl

chmed said:


> I stopped by a Siemens distributor ...


Have you opened this panel and looked at it? If you go back to the distributor and ask for a 2 pole 50 amp bolt on breaker it should fit.


----------



## chmed

nyerinfl said:


> Have you opened this panel and looked at it? If you go back to the distributor and ask for a 2 pole 50 amp bolt on breaker it should fit.


I didn't take the cover off when I was there. But it looked to me like a simple snap-in affair. And I took a photo that I thought contained the info I needed but later on I found that it wasn't detailed enough to make out all the numbers. What I can make out is: P1C3??L125C?S. The distributor made it sound like there were so many different kinds that there was little chance that we could figure it out. 
I unfortunately can't get back to this panel till the day I have to use it. 

Thanks


----------



## 220/221

Call somebody at the building and ask them to read the label on an existing breaker or on the sticker. I can't make it out on my screen.

If it's a QP, it's a plug in. 

If it's a B something, it's a bolt on.


----------



## KayJay

chmed said:


> I stopped by a Siemens distributor and told him it was a "P1" panel and he told me that didn't tell him what he needed to know.


I sure hope you find a better distributor than that in you area.:laughing:


The P1 panel uses bolt-on breakers, so the Siemens 50A 2-pole breaker would be a B250, a 3-pole would be a B350.


----------



## KayJay

MDShunk said:


> If memory serves, the short-lived T&B breaker line was also rated for use in the Siemens panels.


I was just checking the labels on some T&B Classified CB's I have left in stock. Ironically, they are rated for Murray, but not for Siemans. Go figure.


----------



## micromind

That panel very likely takes the Siemens BL type. This is a bolt-on breaker, similar to a CH BA, or a GE THQB, but neither of these will fit. 

Rob


----------



## waco

I don't know about a Siemans three phase, but I know a CH breaker, in my experience, fits nothing but a Cutler-Hammer CH type panel. The Siemans will probably take a Cutler-Hammer BR type breaker. The BR fits GE and Murray and Homeline.


----------



## chmed

micromind said:


> That panel very likely takes the Siemens BL type.
> 
> Rob


This is what I have deduced from the Siemens catalog page 10-19. Its starting to come into focus. Thanks guys.


----------



## nrpelectric

*what fits a siemens panelboard*

its a little overdue it seems but a cutler hammer CH will not fit.. the Cutler Hammer BR or a homeline will work too.


----------



## drsparky

waco said:


> I don't know about a Siemans three phase, but I know a CH breaker, in my experience, fits nothing but a Cutler-Hammer CH type panel. The Siemans will probably take a Cutler-Hammer BR type breaker. The BR fits GE and Murray and Homeline.


Not only are Homeline not listed for a listed for a siemens panel they don't fit. If you look at the back of the Homeline breaker the slot were it hooks to the rail is offset about 1/16 of an inch. On the Siemens/ GE/ BR/ect. the slot is centered. If you put a Homeline in another company’s panel the sit slightly cocked. This puts uneven pressure on the bus clips and will lead to early failure of the bus.


----------



## Toronto Sparky

Mine are Siemens or ITE. Aval. at Torbram in Toronto area..


----------

