# old timer rule of thumb for bids



## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

That may have worked for him since he was in business for 30 years....alot of job cost data for him.

Your requirements would/should be different. Since you have been in business for 5 years....what does your cost history kinda inform you?
You might be able to garner an idea similar to his based on your needs.

One of the last outfits I worked for in the past, said to figure out how many hours for the job and double it, and that would get close to a ballpark figure for just the basics. Extras are just that....extras.

Getting answers of prices from other EC's is a great thing to do, since it will at least give you an idea of what your market can handle. If your needs are at the upper end and market allows....good for you....if not, then may have to rethink your costs.

Good Luck...hope this helped a bit :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I doubt you could use a figure like that to start bidding houses from day 1. You're far better off doing take-offs, figuring your actual costs of doing business, bnechmark your work, and after 30 or 40 houses, you could come up with a 'per opening' price.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

$35 dollars seems very low if you plan on using that method.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

What he is advocating is having set prices for common "assemblies" like all the crap that constitutes a type of outlet. 

How much to charge for each of them (NOT $35!) is a whole other can of worms and REQUIRES deep understanding of your businesses expenses and far more than just what the switch and plate cost.

But the principle is still valid.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

a basic bedroom will have about 7 openings

3 x 7 = 21

a living room will have 10

1 x 10 = 10

a dining room will have 7

1 x 7 = 7

a kitchen will have 15

1 x 13 = 15

bathroom will have 5

2 x 5 = 10

laundry room will have 4

1 x 4 = 4

garage 6

1 x 6 = 6

outside 5

1 x 5 = 5

6 smokes

1 x 6 = 6 

84 x 35 = 3040


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## Power Tech (Aug 23, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> $35 dollars seems very low if you plan on using that method.


It is low in CA but it all depends on where you live. 

My father taught my the unit price, sat me down and said count the fixtures. I can make money on $75 per light (T bar commercial). 

That was the 80's.

In resi., I unit price all switches and receptacles and common fixtures.

I add in for bath fans, sub panels, AC units, chandeliers, fans, etc. or you can get burned.

Then square foot cross reference to make sure I am not under $5 ft.---now it will be more, I have not done a new house that require AFCI's on everything. I would put another $1500 for that.

Take a shot, that is the best way to see where YOU are at. Keep track of the job expenses and at the end of the job you will know.

Figure in for 10' and vaulted ceilings sloped cans.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

rewire said:


> a basic bedroom will have about 7 openings
> 
> 3 x 7 = 21
> 
> ...


So you'll do my house for 3040?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> So you'll do my house for 3040?


Only if you don't want the service, telephone, cable tv, computer, etc........


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## Deter P (Nov 15, 2009)

I hear $55-$100 tract - custom in my area all the time


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Power Tech said:


> It is low in CA but it all depends on where you live.
> 
> My father taught my the unit price, sat me down and said count the fixtures. I can make money on $75 per light (T bar commercial).
> 
> ...


That's the problem with counting just openings for a bid. A fart fan and a 1g opening aren't the same thing. how about $100 per opening? how much for a four gang opening? $400?
But, i see your reasoning.


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## Power Tech (Aug 23, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> That's the problem with counting just openings for a bid. A fart fan and a 1g opening aren't the same thing. how about $100 per opening? how much for a four gang opening? $400?
> But, i see your reasoning.


X4, 4 gang, it is per switch not opening. Good point. 

I just count switches.

Itemize everything else and the length of the runs and piece it out.

A big job is a bunch of small jobs.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Only if you don't want the service, telephone, cable tv, computer, etc........


how much for all that stuff? i don't need multiple cat-6's and rg's, just one in every bedroom and the kitchen and living room and dining room---oh i need a phone in the garage. Did i mention I own seven televisions so i need lv and power behind the mirror in the master bathroom. I have in mind a graphic eye for the kitchen so can we wire it for that just in case?
:whistling2:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Dude you cant go on what someone else does. Thats rule number one in my book. Last year I had another pretty ell established electrician tell me that I was ripping customers off by charging 2500 and up for a 200 amp service change....! he told me I should be more like 17-1800......LOL 
Some of these old timers get stuck in their pricing. You really have to do your own homework and go off of your own business plan not someone elses.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I think $2500 and up for a service upgrade is a fair price.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I think $2500 and up for a service upgrade is a fair price.


 So do I. 3000 would be better but its getting harder and harder to get 2500.


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## Power Tech (Aug 23, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Dude you cant go on what someone else does. Thats rule number one in my book. Last year I had another pretty ell established electrician tell me that I was ripping customers off by charging 2500 and up for a 200 amp service change....! he told me I should be more like 17-1800......LOL
> Some of these old timers get stuck in their pricing. You really have to do your own homework and go off of your own business plan not someone elses.


Agreed, it is not the same for everyone. 

You have to stay current. 

You have to have the huevous to charge enough and know the industry standard price per task.

I have had more trouble with the old timer customers that are stuck in there pricing.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

I know a guy in my area who will wire a three bedroom ,2 bath ,kitchen, livingroom, diningroom, laundry and two car garage 200 amp service for $5000.00. He works out of his house has no workmans comp insurance no advertising an old truck and enough tools to do a house.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Power Tech said:


> Agreed, it is not the same for everyone.
> 
> You have to stay current.
> 
> ...


 Yea I hear that. Another thing that Ive learned so far is that you just gotta let some customers go.....You could tell some people 50 bucks for an old work can (Not that I would or have ever charged that little) , between floors and they would still say thats to much......Oh well you just move on to the next one...


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

rewire said:


> I know a guy in my area who will wire a three bedroom ,2 bath ,kitchen, livingroom, diningroom, laundry and two car garage 200 amp service for $5000.00. He works out of his house has no workmans comp insurance no advertising an old truck and enough tools to do a house.


 Yea I know a few guys like that too. All cheapo parts too. 696 exhaust fans, cheap devices......


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## Power Tech (Aug 23, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Yea I hear that. Another thing that Ive learned so far is that you just gotta let some customers go.....You could tell some people 50 bucks for an old work can (Not that I would or have ever charged that little) , between floors and they would still say thats to much......Oh well you just move on to the next one...


I keep cheep customers phone numbers on my cell, just so I don't answer by mistake.

I like it when the customer pays good with no complaints, likes my work and service.:thumbup:


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

captkirk said:


> So do I. 3000 would be better but its getting harder and harder to get 2500.


 1800 is getting hard to get here


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

rewire said:


> 1800 is getting hard to get here


You live in a small town and get 1800? Wow, I got denied telling someone 1200 for a service change.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> You live in a small town and get 1800? Wow, I got denied telling someone 1200 for a service change.


 The town is small but the Lake area is large and many of these upgrades are on older second homes of people who live in larger metro areas they expect cheaper prices so I still have to sell the sizzle.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

well if its a real easy back to back one, and I have a light week and I can easily do it by myself in a few hours Ill come down from the clouds once in a while for the quick cash. But I wont go lower than 2 grand. I wouldnt be able to sleep if I did. I dont see how you can provide your men with decent bennies and good wages working so cheap. But what do I know...


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Even though I only have temp help at the moment I still price like they are full timers. I dont see any other way if I want to grow.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

captkirk said:


> well if its a real easy back to back one, and I have a light week and I can easily do it by myself in a few hours Ill come down from the clouds once in a while for the quick cash. But I wont go lower than 2 grand. I wouldnt be able to sleep if I did. I dont see how you can provide your men with decent bennies and good wages working so cheap. But what do I know...


 We do almost any upgrade in about 10 manhours my labor costs are $40.00/hr so I have so I have $400.00 in labor materials are $500.00 thats $900.00 which gives me $900.00 for overhead and profit. A residential electrician earns $15.75/hr HW is $5.00/hr retirement is $1.25/hr total package is $22.00/hr


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

10 manhours @ $22/hr = $400?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

10 man hours....? really..? that sounds kind of low to me.. As does 15 an hour for a decent man...... And your the one that's been carrying on about union wages and such........(scratching my head) I have a helper that I pay 15 bucks to... yea sure you put in 5 in his retirement but most guys I know would rather have that money and do what they want with it......
what about the site visit, permit run, waiting for inspector....And before you go ape ship I'm not criticizing you just talking shop


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

oldman said:


> 10 manhours @ $22/hr = $400?


he bills his guys out at $40 per hour. In CA that would be really, really low. But I dunno about Missouri.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

captkirk said:


> 10 man hours....? really..? that sounds kind of low to me.. As does 15 an hour for a decent man...... And your the one that's been carrying on about union wages and such........(scratching my head) I have a helper that I pay 15 bucks to... yea sure you put in 5 in his retirement but most guys I know would rather have that money and do what they want with it......
> what about the site visit, permit run, waiting for inspector....And before you go ape ship I'm not criticizing you just talking shop


 start at 8 with two men one inside starting on panel the apprentice unloads material drives ground rod Ameran at 8.30 cut out, apprentice starts removing old meter by 11 the new meterbase is in the new panel is ready to start landingone guy takes lunch while one lands panel then they switch off inspection at 1130 ameren returns at 1 to reconnect back in shop by 130 total manhours 10. You get non union guys for 12/hr with no bennies its all about were you are at. My wage is a p[art of overhead and that covers site visits and permits and inspections are not always needed and when they are I take care of it.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

oldman said:


> 10 manhours @ $22/hr = $400?


 labor cost is $40.00/hr more to labor cost than just wage


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