# Stranded wire -- Apprentice



## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

Why is it my apprentice can NOT strip THHN stranded wire without removing 1/2 the strands ?????????????????

I do it all day long with a little mini stripper. He tried 10 different tools, and just don't get it. By the time he's done, a 10ga THHN turns in an 18ga, and I have to do them all over.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

It sounds like he lacks the mechanical aptitude to be an electrician. Stripping a wire is the most basic of tasks that should be instantly mastered by an apprentice. I would fire him.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

You only have to do the ones over near the beginning of the circuit, once your load is down to 7 amps, his method is fine. -Concrete Joe


----------



## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

He's "turning"/"twisting" the strippers as he pulls the insulation off. 

Have him do the cut with the proper wire size groove, then move up a size or two and pull the insulation off (or use the tips of the strippers to pull the insulation off after doing the cut). 

If that doesn't work, hand him a toilet plunger and wish him luck in his new career.


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

MTW said:


> It sounds like he lacks the mechanical aptitude to be an electrician. Stripping a wire is the most basic of tasks that should be instantly mastered by an apprentice. I would fire him.


I had a journeyman, with several years of experience, use a pair of klein cable cutters (the small pouch size ones with the red handle) to "ring" the insulation before using a knife on it on a #6 on a motor crimp.. He buttoned it up and when I went down to change the rotation (in a confined space), there was about 1 or 2 strands left that weren't nicked to the point of breaking off.. Needless to say I was glad he only worked on 2 motors - both of which needed repairs...


----------



## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

I taught him how to glue PVC pipe. He got that right, no problem. He fixed the urinal in the shop bathroom, no leaks. He's fine with plumbing. Nicest kid, willing to work hard. Doesn't play with his phone all day.

Had him pull wire into a 1900 box. He cut the wire so short, it was useless. 

He just doesn't get electrical.

I'll teach him how to sweat pipe, we'll see how that goes.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Spark Master said:


> I taught him how to glue PVC pipe. He got that right, no problem. He fixed the urinal in the shop bathroom, no leaks. He's fine with plumbing. Nicest kid, willing to work hard. Doesn't play with his phone all day.
> 
> Had him pull wire into a 1900 box. He cut the wire so short, it was useless.
> 
> ...


How is he with coffee orders?
We all started with the basics. 

Let him practice on your scrap, make him use the same strippers and point out why the holes have numbers on them... 
If that don't work, get him the $5 Stanley strippers and you adjust it for #12.


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Spark Master said:


> Why is it my apprentice can NOT strip THHN stranded wire without removing 1/2 the strands ?????????????????
> 
> I do it all day long with a little mini stripper. He tried 10 different tools, and just don't get it. By the time he's done, a 10ga THHN turns in an 18ga, and I have to do them all over.


Maybe it is the teacher.:laughing::no:

I can do it with Kliens


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

I have a gap in my front teeth that fits 14ga perfectly. Freaks people out when I do that...


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

JRaef said:


> I have a gap in my front teeth that fits 14ga perfectly. Freaks people out when I do that...



When I was inThe army I was setting up the phones from guard point to point, they were a two wire style with 4 d batteries and a crank to make the other phones ring. Well in Iraq I didn't have strippers so I used my teeth right about the time I clamped down my battle buddy started cranking the other phone and zapped me good. Never stripped with my teeth again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

90 to 100 volts DC? Damn!

How many amps?


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

daks said:


> If that doesn't work, hand him a toilet plunger and wish him luck in his new career.


:laughing: :thumbup: 

Great post!


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bad Electrician said:


> Maybe it is the teacher.:laughing::no:
> 
> I can do it with Kliens


I worked with my Dad the first couple of years or so in the trade.
We only used #12 stranded.
He never owned a pair of strippers so, I learned how to trim out receptacles and switches using a pair of Kleins.
I have no problem either way but do carry a pair of those new stainless strippers with the screw cutter and needle nose.


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

LARMGUY said:


> 90 to 100 volts DC? Damn! How many amps?


 I have no idea. It was one of the few light hearted moments during war.


----------



## LoVolt134 (Dec 14, 2012)

Ring voltage on that crank phone would be 100 vac from the magneto. 90 vac from a central office. And that is one of the oldest tricks in the phone guys bag, right next to a bucket of dial tone. 

Your apprentice is probably stripping the stranded wire in the solid wire slot. I know on all my strippers each side says what gauge and either solid or stranded and often enough an apprentice is clueless and doesnt realize it.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

LoVolt134 said:


> Ring voltage on that crank phone would be 100 vac from the magneto. 90 vac from a central office. And that is one of the oldest tricks in the phone guys bag, right next to a bucket of dial tone.
> 
> I know on all my strippers each side says what gauge and either solid or stranded and often enough an apprentice is clueless and doesnt realize it.


I've never seen a wire stripper that distinguished between solid and stranded wire, could you let us know the brand/model so we can look it up?


----------



## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I've never seen a wire stripper that distinguished between solid and stranded wire, could you let us know the brand/model so we can look it up?


Every pair I've ever own had a solid and stranded markers. Stranded has a slightly larger diameter conductor due to air space between strands (AFAIK).


----------



## CzechMate (Jan 16, 2015)

AK_sparky said:


> Every pair I've ever own had a solid and stranded markers. Stranded has a slightly larger diameter conductor due to air space between strands (AFAIK).


I'm still new in this industry but that's exactly how I was taught. I was also told to go up a wire size for stripping stranded. Strip #12 stranded in #10 solid. They even told me that red handle strippers are for stranded yellow is for solid and blue is for either. My guess is if he is using the right stripper he is twisting or rocking the stripper on the wire.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

These are the ones I've used since the early 80's and I've never seen the solid and stranded ratings on the tool. I tried to check the specs and didn't see whether it said it was rated for solid only or for both solid and stranded.

I did learn early on that the best technique was to squeeze the handle to make the cut in the insulation then loosen your grip slightly when pulling off the insulation. I guess because the stranded wire was a little larger. I never had any problems (that I'm aware of) with the terminations.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

So just for chits and giggles, I looked at conductor properties in chapter 9 and compared the diameter of solid and stranded wire.

#14 stranded is 14.1% larger than #14 solid
#12 stranded is 13.6% larger than #12 solid
#10 stranded is 13.7% larger than #10 solid

#12 solid is 11% larger than #14 stranded
#10 solid is 10.9% larger than #12 stranded


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

AK_sparky said:


> Every pair I've ever own had a solid and stranded markers. Stranded has a slightly larger diameter conductor due to air space between strands (AFAIK).


So if you are using these strippers, what do you use to strip #10 stranded? :whistling2:


----------



## Selectric (Aug 18, 2009)

I have noticed that on a lot of strippers they mark the wire ranges on both sides of the tool. 
One side is marked SOL and the other, when you flip it over, STR. The AWG numbers are marking different holes depending which side you are looking at.


----------



## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

hardworkingstiff said:


> These are the ones I've used since the early 80's and I've never seen the solid and stranded ratings on the tool. I tried to check the specs and didn't see whether it said it was rated for solid only or for both solid and stranded.
> 
> I did learn early on that the best technique was to squeeze the handle to make the cut in the insulation then loosen your grip slightly when pulling off the insulation. I guess because the stranded wire was a little larger. I never had any problems (that I'm aware of) with the terminations.


Time to get a new pair of strippers, use what your preference is, I noticed this change in wire strippers about 2000-2001.


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

I use the Klein Katapult strippers for both stranded and solid.. Probably all I've used for 15 years..

I keep the Klein ones with the screw cutter as previously listed for a back-up or to cut screws..


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

glen1971 said:


> I use the Klein Katapult strippers for both stranded and solid.. Probably all I've used for 15 years..
> 
> I keep the Klein ones with the screw cutter as previously listed for a back-up or to cut screws..


Do they use the same hole for stranded and solid or is it marked like the yellow handled ones shown above (showing you should use a different hole for stranded vs solid of the same AWG)?


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Do they use the same hole for stranded and solid or is it marked like the yellow handled ones shown above (showing you should use a different hole for stranded vs solid of the same AWG)?


I think they have a note on them for solid or stranded.. Naturally I left them at work last week, so I'll have to check this week..


----------



## mapmd (Oct 26, 2014)

tates1882 said:


> When I was inThe army I was setting up the phones from guard point to point, they were a two wire style with 4 d batteries and a crank to make the other phones ring. Well in Iraq I didn't have strippers so I used my teeth right about the time I clamped down my battle buddy started cranking the other phone and zapped me good. Never stripped with my teeth again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Speaking of which, did you ever get to see some of the wiring over there? That was long before I ever thought of doing electric work, but I remember them sending some KBR guys (probably subcontracted through them) over to some of the palaces and servants quarters we were living in and eating out of. Those guys were probably raking in a quarter mil a year of the taxpayer dime.

It was interesting stuff: knew instantly that it was 3rd world hackery, couple dozen guys died from electrocution over there just from walking around and inadvertently touching some live 480v hanging out of a wall, or taking a shower in the wrong place at the wrong time. Makes you wonder what the citizenry in some countries go though. Wonder how bad a place like India is with hack job wiring.


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

mapmd said:


> Speaking of which, did you ever get to see some of the wiring over there? That was long before I ever thought of doing electric work, but I remember them sending some KBR guys (probably subcontracted through them) over to some of the palaces and servants quarters we were living in and eating out of. Those guys were probably raking in a quarter mil a year of the taxpayer dime. It was interesting stuff: knew instantly that it was 3rd world hackery, couple dozen guys died from electrocution over there just from walking around and inadvertently touching some live 480v hanging out of a wall, or taking a shower in the wrong place at the wrong time. Makes you wonder what the citizenry in some countries go though. Wonder how bad a place like India is with hack job wiring.


 I was there at the very beginning for a year then a break for 3 months then a year. We were mostly self sufficient, some of the target switches and small nodes came with 5-15 kW gens.. I didn't see hot water for the first nine months and only seen chow when we stopped into one of the bases. Toward then end there were more civilians but mainly bus and truck drivers.


----------



## KDC (Oct 19, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Do they use the same hole for stranded and solid or is it marked like the yellow handled ones shown above (showing you should use a different hole for stranded vs solid of the same AWG)?


They have 2 sizes listed per hole, one on the top blade and one on the bottom. Don't recall seeing them say stranded or solid, they might just expect a person to learn quick.


----------



## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

My strippers (Klein Kurve) have different numbers for stranded and solid, but I find that when stripping stranded if you follow the stripper's markings it's a pain to strip, so I just use the same hole for solid or stranded, along with a modicum of caution, and it works just fine.


----------



## 211mike70 (May 18, 2015)

Practice, practice and practice. In school I found during the few times we used stranded that stripping was a pain in the ass. Finally bought a pair of Klein Katapult strippers that made easy work of it.

That being said I still start with a pair of regular strippers but will change over before I get frustrated. Have found that different wire manufactures, or even different production runs, are easier then others to strip.

Just my 2 cents as a student and new entry into the electrical trade.


----------



## STEM (Jan 16, 2015)

First I'd have him strip a wire the way he normally does it. Then I'd show him how easily a nicked wire breaks off. Then I'd give him 10 feet of #16 and tell him to strip 100 times - an inch apart and examine each one. If that doesn't work then have him write on the white board 100 times "I will not nick wire when I strip".


----------



## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

211mike70 said:


> Practice, practice and practice. In school I found during the few times we used stranded that stripping was a pain in the ass. Finally bought a pair of Klein Katapult strippers that made easy work of it.
> 
> That being said I still start with a pair of regular strippers but will change over before I get frustrated. Have found that different wire manufactures, or even different production runs, are easier then others to strip.
> 
> Just my 2 cents as a student and new entry into the electrical trade.


Wait till you have strip single or multimode fiber..You will be fired...Fiber stripping is about care and angle and the right size strippers for cladding, fiber, etc...


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I clicked on this thread to learn the ways of strippers -- 

And all I see are concerns about being '_nicked_.'


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

As to the OP...

Your boy has no wrist sense.

I also sense a great deal of conductor anger in the kid.

He may prove out to be a nature Romex racer. Who knows?


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Spark Master said:


> Why is it my apprentice can NOT strip THHN stranded wire without removing 1/2 the strands ?????????????????
> 
> I do it all day long with a little mini stripper. He tried 10 different tools, and just don't get it. By the time he's done, a 10ga THHN turns in an 18ga, and I have to do them all over.


Stripper tool worn out.


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

knicked? who knicks?


----------



## Dhender1985 (Jul 26, 2015)

I've used my linesman since about day one. Gives me they perfect strip every time, whether I'm splicing, or wiring switches. And as far as I know, I rarely score the wire. Just takes a little finnes. And I don't like using wire stripers cause I have a hard time getting the right amount of strip at the end (not very good at measurement perception).


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> These are the ones I've used since the early 80's


You used the same strippers since the early 80's? You may be my new hero.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

When I became an apprentice, I was an art school dropout with almost zero mechanical abilities. What I did possess, however, was attention to detail and the desire to do things right.

If this apprentice is hacking off strands and throwing things together, than you have a problem. His quality of work is probably poor in general and I don't know if that's something that can be taught.

Personally, I wouldn't care if he strips stranded wire with a utility knife. If his intention is to do the job properly, then that's what really matters. As his mechanical skills improve so will his speed and efficiency.


----------



## Wirenut951 (Aug 3, 2014)

Spark Master said:


> Why is it my apprentice can NOT strip THHN stranded wire without removing 1/2 the strands ?????????????????
> 
> I do it all day long with a little mini stripper. He tried 10 different tools, and just don't get it. By the time he's done, a 10ga THHN turns in an 18ga, and I have to do them all over.


Show him the proper way and make sure he is using the right notches on his strippers. Everyone deserves a "reasonable" amount of time to learn how to do their job, but stripping a wire shouldn't take more than a day or two to figure out. Electrical work isn't for everyone.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

daks said:


> He's "turning"/"twisting" the strippers as he pulls the insulation off....


 Agreed, probably because he's got too much leverage on the handle and it's taking a lot of force to pull the insulation off towards himself.

Once he makes his score with the strippers show him how to take the hand holding the wire and use that thumb to push the insulation off the wire. This results in a smooth force applied close to the cable and reduces all that jimmying that's eating strands.

Seen enough guys srew up stripping with knives and Kleins to know that nothing is as easy as we think it should be.


----------



## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

I think weak hands and wrists are the probable cause. Big johns advice is sound.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

He could be green enough, blind enough, that #10 looks like #12 -- and he slots it so.

He could be slow enough to think that #12 is the big wire and #10 is the small wire.

This kind of error can go on by -- for a long time -- because the seasoned hand can't imagine that a noob could ever be under that impression.

Whereas, most things in life get bigger -- with bigger numbers: shoe sizes, dress sizes, rebar sizes, etc.

The noob will never babble about it -- 'cause he thinks he's got it nailed.

The pro will never address it -- 'cause he doesn't even think about something so obvious... obvious to him.


----------



## ELECTRICK2 (Feb 21, 2015)

Spark Master said:


> Why is it my apprentice can NOT strip THHN stranded wire without removing 1/2 the strands ?????????????????
> 
> I do it all day long with a little mini stripper. He tried 10 different tools, and just don't get it. By the time he's done, a 10ga THHN turns in an 18ga, and I have to do them all over.


Give him100ft of wire to take home. Strip the wire until he can do it without copper ending up on the floor. If he won`t or can not then he may want to find another line of work


----------



## teufelhounden91 (Jul 8, 2012)

I tell my apprentices to line up the hole in the strippers, clinch down with the strippers at a 45deg angle instead of perpendicular as if you were trying to cut the wire in half, then turn your wrist back to perpendicular and pull off the sheathing while pushing off with the thumb of the hand holding the wire.

If he's pulling the sheathing off with the strippers cocked at an angle the stripper blade is scraping and cutting the strands. Make sure he knows that. Gotta try to keep the strippers at 90deg so the wire can smoothly slide through the hole. Mix that with the wrong hole being used...bad stripping.

I make my apprentices cut a small piece of #12 stranded and tie it to their tool belt and leave it there for the first month they're working. They'll know that wire size really well seeing it everyday so when a #10 or #14 comes up they know there's a difference in the size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## teufelhounden91 (Jul 8, 2012)

ELECTRICK2 said:


> Give him100ft of wire to take home. Strip the wire until he can do it without copper ending up on the floor. If he won`t or can not then he may want to find another line of work



That's a good one too...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

CzechMate said:


> I'm still new in this industry but that's exactly how I was taught. I was also told to go up a wire size for stripping stranded. Strip #12 stranded in #10 solid. They even told me that red handle strippers are for stranded yellow is for solid and blue is for either. My guess is if he is using the right stripper he is twisting or rocking the stripper on the wire.


Teach him electrical theory. (Resistance) Buy him something better than HF strippers. Everyone has their own preference. I like the Crocs and my son likes the Kleins.
Maybe he has poor eyesight and can't properly judge the size of the conductor? As for wrist strength, put him in a walk-in freezer with 100' of stranded #10, and tell him to cut it in 1' pieces and strip both ends.


----------



## teufelhounden91 (Jul 8, 2012)

wendon said:


> As for wrist strength, put him in a walk-in freezer with 100' of stranded #10, and tell him to cut it in 1' pieces and strip both ends.



Hahaha that'll do the trick!

Also have him unroll a full 250' steel fish tape and then roll it back up without switching hands or stopping, then do it again but opposite hand. Twice a day for a week and he'll have hulk arms lol

(Even better have him use an old rusty bent up one)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

I honestly prefer to use my pliers to strip stranded most of the time.

Might not hurt to start there just to understand how much pressure you actually need to strip the wire. It really isn't much. 

Hell, I learned to strip coax with a knife when I first started out. Gave me a better understanding of how it should come out of the stripper.


----------



## Jay82304 (May 12, 2015)

I know I learned with stranded 12 and 14 awg wire it's hard to strip if the end isn't completely straight. If it is slightly bent and you strip pushing back straight, it cuts into the strands. Tell him make sure the wire is straight and to loosen up on the strippers after he makes the score.


----------



## bhartman (Nov 19, 2015)

When I started in 2001, my journeyman fired me every day because I did something "wrong" I didn't learn anything from him! Now I am a master electrician and he works for me! I fire him everyday, he frustrates me daily. Very good journeyman electrician though.


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

bhartman said:


> When I started in 2001, my journeyman fired me every day because I did something "wrong" I didn't learn anything from him! Now I am a master electrician and he works for me! I fire him everyday, he frustrates me daily. Very good journeyman electrician though.


When I was a helper I vowed to treat anyone working for me like I wished I had been treated when I was a helper. 

So far it seems to have paid off.


----------



## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

Most people own strippers marked for solid wire and some don't realize that they should go to the next biggest size when working with stranded wire. 
ie #12 wire stranded should be stripped using the notch for #10 on strippers marked for solid wire


----------



## mapmd (Oct 26, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> When I was a helper I vowed to treat anyone working for me like I wished I had been treated when I was a helper.
> 
> So far it seems to have paid off.


3/4ths of my journeymen seem to get this. It makes for a successful company overall. Better helpers/apprentices = more production, more speed, better quality. It's better to go through life assuming others are trainable. New =/= Idiot like so many people wish to believe. If the work ethic and the desire to learn is there you can bank on anyone. 

After 12-18 months you should be able to say to your helper _"go take care of X & Y"_ and you should be able to count on X & Y being done in a reasonable amount of time without having to give instruction how to do it. You may wish to convey a placement preference, but over time even that won't be necessary.


----------



## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I have a few pair of these



But I'm too lazy to walk over to the truck, so I use my kleins for everything :thumbsup:


----------



## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

I use a small butane torch. That pure blue jet will strip insulation wherever you want ;-) 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Jarp Habib said:


> I use a small butane torch. That pure blue jet will strip insulation wherever you want ;-)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Can't use 'em where open flames are prohibited.. That and I couldn't handle getting laughed at when I sparked it up to melt the insulation off.. 
IMO...Right tool for the right job...


----------



## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

JRaef said:


> I have a gap in my front teeth that fits 14ga perfectly. Freaks people out when I do that...


we need a video, NOW!:thumbup:


----------



## murph7489 (May 8, 2016)

Quick story about a helper...I worked at a college as a maintenance electrician. During the summer they would give me a helper that was a work study student that was in our electrical vocation classes. 

Anyways I was running some 500 wiremold (they loved that crap at the college) for a simple receptacle circuit. I roughed it in and told him to go ahead and wire the devices in while I started the lighting circuit. He told me he was done so I went to check it before energizing it, and noticed he had pigtailed the grounds to the hot conductors...

I was in disbelief, so I asked him what did you do that for, the green wire is the ground! so he then says to me, oh I didn't notice that, I am colorblind...lol..suffice to say I demoted him to running the conduit only and told my boss about it at the end of the day and said to him, uh ya know that helper you gave me? He can't be an electrician he is color blind...my boss was like WHAT?? I was like yeah, I told him I didn't say anything to the kid like umm you can't be an electrician, because I felt bad for him so I left that task up to my boss and asked him what do you want me to do? I said he can run conduit pretty well and I can still use him to do that...So that's what I did. he left before the summer was even over and I never saw him again...shame really because he was a really nice kid and smart...just wanted a way out of the ghetto in NYC and wanted to be an electrician...


----------



## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

You are in violation of the ADA, and many employment laws. You must accommodate the color blind kid, no matter what. I hope he sues your employer.


----------



## murph7489 (May 8, 2016)

he was accommodated..I let him run pipe..


----------



## inetdog (Apr 13, 2016)

He just needs to use glasses with colored filter inserts in one area. 
Like the ones in National Treasure, maybe?


----------

