# Massholes, LV permits?



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Does anybody have a definitive answer on permitting for low voltage work. Some towns say yes, some say no. It's a statewide code and licensing so somebody is wrong.

I failed a final inspection today because there was no permit for the low voltage wiring. Small scale home theater. Of course I had nothing to do with this wiring.


----------



## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

Did you do the LV wiring?


----------



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Town by town. It's a money thing. I've done fit outs where the same thing happens, and specifically the musac installer had to hire us to pull permit cause they hold no license.


----------



## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

You need a license to do this kind of work???


----------



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Stupid electrician, should have provided an intersystem bonding bar


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Does anybody have a definitive answer on permitting for low voltage work. Some towns say yes, some say no. It's a statewide code and licensing so somebody is wrong.
> 
> I failed a final inspection today because there was no permit for the low voltage wiring. Small scale home theater. Of course I had nothing to do with this wiring.


Here is the law



> Section 3L. The board of fire prevention regulations shall make and promulgate, and from time to time may alter, amend and repeal, rules and regulations relative to the installation, repair and maintenance of electrical wiring and electrical fixtures used for light, heat and power purposes in buildings and structures subject to the provisions of sections three to sixty, inclusive, and the state building code. Such regulations shall be in accordance with generally accepted standards of engineering practice, and shall be designed to provide reasonable uniform requirements of safety in relation to life, fire and explosion.
> 
> Upon the making of such rules and regulations and prior to their promulgation, the board shall hold a public hearing thereon, notice of which shall be given by advertising in at least one newspaper in each of the cities of Boston, Worcester, Springfield, Fall River, Lowell and Lynn, at least ten days before said hearing. If, subsequent to their being deposited with the state secretary, as provided herein, the board on its own initiative contemplates changes in said rules and regulations, or if a petition is filed by any other person for changes therein, like notice and a hearing shall be given and held before the adoption thereof.
> 
> ...


Open to interpretation.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Does anybody have a definitive answer on permitting for low voltage work. Some towns say yes, some say no. It's a statewide code and licensing so somebody is wrong.
> 
> I failed a final inspection today because there was no permit for the low voltage wiring. Small scale home theater. Of course I had nothing to do with this wiring.


We are grandfathered for the Class (C) and (D) license although we do not have to carry one we have the same authority they have unless it is security work then we would need a (S) license.

Telephone and data are on the Electrical permit you just need to fill it out.


Not that i ever do...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Does anybody have a definitive answer on permitting for low voltage work. Some towns say yes, some say no. It's a statewide code and licensing so somebody is wrong.
> 
> I failed a final inspection today because there was no permit for the low voltage wiring. Small scale home theater. Of course I had nothing to do with this wiring.


Scott why the hell did he fail you if you did not do the wiring?:blink:


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> Does anybody have a definitive answer on permitting for low voltage work. Some towns say yes, some say no. It's a statewide code and licensing so somebody is wrong.
> 
> I failed a final inspection today because there was no permit for the low voltage wiring. Small scale home theater. Of course I had nothing to do with this wiring.


Maybe you failed because the plumbing wasn't right!


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chris Kennedy said:


> You need a license to do this kind of work???


Yes and that would not pass....:laughing::whistling2:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris Kennedy said:


> You need a license to do this kind of work???


Maybe.:jester:



> System means a fire warning, security or other inherently power-limited system, wire, conduit or device which conducts or consumes electricity and is electrically or electronically activated.





> Systems Technician means a holder of a Class D license and a person qualified to do the work of installing, repairing or maintaining wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures or other appliances used for systems.





> 13.08: Education Requirements for Class D (Systems Technician) License
> 
> (1) An apprentice shall furnish documentary proof satisfactory to the Board of having successfully completed without substantial interruption 300 clock hours of education as described in 237 CMR 22.00 based on the current or as the case may be a preceding Code before making an application for examination.
> 
> ...


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Couple city's around here you have to pull a permit, in fact, one near here you have to pull one for even a single wire/jack.

Permit effectively doubles, or even triples the cost for a single location. So yeah, not many people pull permits, I've been scr$wed by them before (for work I didn't do) so I just say no.


----------



## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

sarness said:


> Couple city's around here you have to pull a permit, in fact, one near here you have to pull one for even a single wire/jack.
> 
> Permit effectively doubles, or even triples the cost for a single location. So yeah, not many people pull permits, I've been scr$wed by them before (for work I didn't do) so I just say no.


Sarness, what kind of company do you work for? TELCO or vendor. As a TELCO employee I can not even begin to understand how the permit process would work for our type of work.

I get loaded out with 5 to 8 jobs a day, there is no way to pull permits and complete those jobs on the due date. I get many jobs installing service to the demarc with no jacks on the order. Then the customer decides they want jacks. How would that work?

I have been doing this job for 32 years and I do not have a license. I work in Kansas and Missouri, is a license not required or what? It has never been an issue or a condition for employment.:blink:


----------



## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Yes the installer needs a permit. I don't see why he/she wouldn't.

We pull MA permits for lv control work all the time.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

So I went to the building dept. and of course the inspector had just left for vacation. The woman in the office told me I need an AV permit for the AV wiring. Is a license required I ask. Yes she says. But they don't enforce that as long as you have insurance. :001_huh: So whoever did the av wiring has to get a permit. Ok, that's fine. I said I did not do this wiring, (Which the inspector was told on site by the GC who actually installed the wiring) I have no involvement with it, and my work was permitted properly and is complete so why did he not sign off?? "He said there are exposed wires" she tells me. Which is true. There are speaker wires that aren't connected to anything but again, not my wiring. "Take it up with the inspector" was how she left it.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

So, your inspection department is staffed with morons, then?

-John


----------



## Arc'n'Spark (Jul 21, 2011)

Wow, that's ********. That looks like every job I trim out before the AV guy shows up.


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

What city is this? I'll make sure never to pull a permit out there. What a freakin headache.


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Sarness, what kind of company do you work for? TELCO or vendor. As a TELCO employee I can not even begin to understand how the permit process would work for our type of work.
> 
> I get loaded out with 5 to 8 jobs a day, there is no way to pull permits and complete those jobs on the due date. I get many jobs installing service to the demarc with no jacks on the order. Then the customer decides they want jacks. How would that work?
> 
> I have been doing this job for 32 years and I do not have a license. I work in Kansas and Missouri, is a license not required or what? It has never been an issue or a condition for employment.:blink:


Vendor, I have never pulled a LV permit myself, and I can only think of 1-2 jobs an actual permit was pulled for new construction. No license was needed last I checked, non of the people I contract for ask for one either. But yeah, if a customer calls up and needs work done, we just go do it, I think my one boss said it was $125 for the initial permit, then like $12 per outlet. The whole city inspection department got taken over by the county department due to all the corruption going on. I didn't pull a permit when I rewired my house when I lived there, but a competent inspector would find it hard to fault any of the work I did.

The one particular job I did was running a horizontal phone cable from a vertical cable chase (sky rise mechanical room with the phone system in it) out to an office. I went through an existing firestopped nipple and hangers and such to stubbed up box. Day later boss gets a call from an inspector (he didn't pull a permit, but inspector was doing a walk through and saw the new cable (at the time we were using green plenum cable, did stand out a bit) and asked the client about it) and says we have to firestop all the holes. Well I remember that there were a large number of holes beaten through the block wall with other conduits and cables running through them, none of which was related to the work I did. And I had replaced the firestopping in the chase I used. Inspector however forced him to come out and firestop every vertical and horizontal penetration in that room or he was going to fine him. Lost a good bit of money on that job for something we didn't do.


----------



## bullmike (Jun 13, 2011)

electricmanscott I thought all that was needed in Massachusetts was a GC permit for LV . Unlike Rhode Island which you need either a telecommunications license ( $ 20 / year ) or a A license. I pull a lot of permits for low voltage companies from Massachusetts doing work in Rhode Island and they rarely get called on a permit or a violation. And that is taking into consideration work like the above pictures or worse.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Does anybody have a definitive answer on permitting for low voltage work. Some towns say yes, some say no. It's a statewide code and licensing so somebody is wrong.
> 
> I failed a final inspection today because there was no permit for the low voltage wiring. Small scale home theater. Of course I had nothing to do with this wiring.


So if the wirings not listed on the permit, how is the inspector flagging you for it? :no:


----------



## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Besides being a Fu&knut (I know we are in two different areas also) I have had inspectors try to deny a final inspection due to the Av guys or homeowner installed wiring hanging out of the wall unterminated or not "jacked out" siting fire code. On one custom home a couple of years ago they paid me to blank plate all the LV rings off to get a final as the resi. inspections are combination inspections in some areas here they inspect all trades at once.
A lot of these areas are really just trying to make up for their budget downfalls somewhere IMHO. But is it really necessary????? Some like to play "god" also.


----------

