# Should I learn Rigid?



## mapmd (Oct 26, 2014)

So even though I'm a new apprentice (just shy of a year) I've been looking at job postings out in the northern mid-west. Almost all of them express a desire for new hires to have an understanding of Rigid or EMT systems (are those the same thing).

I do mostly residential with the company I work for with some sporadic commercial. It's a great company, but I just can't survive in this high cost of living area. I want to move for A.) the adventure, and B.) because I can literally double my wage or come close to it out in the oil fields (maybe with free housing which would be a great reason to make the jump).

So anyone have a rundown of what these things are and how they work? Should I get some basic materials and practice with it a bit? If so, what should I get? Like I said we've never used it and I don't think it's required around this area.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

It sounds like they want you to know how to run EMT (electrical metallic tubing). This includes bending 90's, offsets and the code for support and conduit fill. 

Rigid conduit is heavy wall galvanized conduit. This requires threading. They probably want you to know how to do this. Residential you may do 2" or 2.5" but you may not be threading it. You'll learn these methods in commercial work.


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## mapmd (Oct 26, 2014)

Service Call said:


> It sounds like they want you to know how to run EMT (electrical metallic tubing). This includes bending 90's, offsets and the code for support and conduit fill.
> 
> Rigid conduit is heavy wall galvanized conduit. This requires threading. They probably want you to know how to do this. Residential you may do 2" or 2.5" but you may not be threading it. You'll learn these methods in commercial work.


Which is exactly my dilemma. Can't learn it if I don't see much commercial work, and it doesn't help that in the commercial work we have done we haven't used it. From my understanding we don't at all and it's just not used here.

But...can't get the commercial/industrial jobs which pay more if I can't put that on my res. So do I teach myself?


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## dielectricunion (Nov 29, 2012)

EMT is fairly easy to work with. Invest in 1/2" and 3/4" benders, buy a dozen sticks of conduit, and look up some tutorials on how to do each bend.

Make a cheat sheet with all the multipliers and shrinkage etc that you can quickly reference. 

Either set up some mock electrical situations or maybe actually find a place in a friends garage or something where you can actually replace some runs in EMT.

Rigid is more difficult because, being threaded, you have to do the math so that you can cut a length and thread it before making any bends (typically).

It's quite a bit more investment to get set up to bend and thread rigid (RMC)


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

mapmd said:


> *Should I learn Rigid? *


Simple answer......yes. As an apprentice you should try to learn everything you can. 

Not so simple answer.......trying to find a spot to get that experience. Not all contractors do a wide variety of work types. You need some time with a commercial contractor in order to get a shot at learning some of these different aspects.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

mapmd said:


> So even though I'm a new apprentice (just shy of a year) I've been looking at job postings out in the northern mid-west. Almost all of them express a desire for new hires to have an understanding of Rigid or EMT systems (are those the same thing).
> 
> I do mostly residential with the company I work for with some sporadic commercial. It's a great company, but I just can't survive in this high cost of living area. I want to move for A.) the adventure, and B.) because I can literally double my wage or come close to it out in the oil fields (maybe with free housing which would be a great reason to make the jump).
> 
> So anyone have a rundown of what these things are and how they work? Should I get some basic materials and practice with it a bit? If so, what should I get? Like I said we've never used it and I don't think it's required around this area.


If you end up on a big job, you will be closely supervised and as a first year just say yes and they will expect you to know some things but not everything.
A guy that is an expert pipe bender but is too fat to move around or has a bad attitude is much less valuable than a young guy like yourself willing to show up every day and work hard.
Fake it until you make it. It's not like they are looking for a cable spliced or someone for the instrument crew. BTW, if you get a shot at that kind of work, jump on it.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Why wouldn't you want to learn something? Some of the best learning experiences and opportunities I've had so far are because other guys weren't driven to leave their comfort zone.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

I'd love the chance to learn rigid, I haven't been near the stuff yet as a second year.


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## minichopper6hp (Apr 19, 2014)

Not missing much. Harder to bend and install.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

mapmd said:


> So even though I'm a new apprentice (just shy of a year) I've been looking at job postings out in the northern mid-west. Almost all of them express a desire for new hires to have an understanding of Rigid or EMT systems (are those the same thing).
> 
> I do mostly residential with the company I work for with some sporadic commercial. It's a great company, but I just can't survive in this high cost of living area. I want to move for A.) the adventure, and B.) because I can literally double my wage or come close to it out in the oil fields (maybe with free housing which would be a great reason to make the jump).
> 
> So anyone have a rundown of what these things are and how they work? Should I get some basic materials and practice with it a bit? If so, what should I get? Like I said we've never used it and I don't think it's required around this area.


You should learn everything from pulling Romex to wiring controls. Then specialize in something after you have learned all that.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Do you not learn any in school? Our first years do EMT and rigid bending with a hand bender and even some hydrolic bending


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

mapmd said:


> So even though I'm a new apprentice (just shy of a year) I've been looking at job postings out in the northern mid-west. Almost all of them express a desire for new hires to have an understanding of Rigid or EMT systems (are those the same thing).
> 
> I do mostly residential with the company I work for with some sporadic commercial. It's a great company, but I just can't survive in this high cost of living area. I want to move for A.) the adventure, and B.) because I can literally double my wage or come close to it out in the oil fields (maybe with free housing which would be a great reason to make the jump).
> 
> So anyone have a rundown of what these things are and how they work? Should I get some basic materials and practice with it a bit? If so, what should I get? Like I said we've never used it and I don't think it's required around this area.


Yes learn it and live it, make yourself the best electrician money can buy.

This will sharpen your bending skills fast......



Pipe bending EMT.

Go buy 100' of 3/4" EMT AND A 3/4" Ideal EMT bender with the handle and the book ,, read the book many times.

Now set up a sheet of plywood in your garage or basement.

Put a 4" square box at the 6 o'clock position 1' above that have a 2" PVC going across your path measure up another foot and make a mark,,,,about 30" to the right place another box at the 3 o'clock position .

Now make a box-offset to come out of your box at the 6 o'clock position then make a 3 point saddle to go over your 2" PVC, then measure to make a 90 DEG bend to your box at the 3 o'clock position make a box-offset to hit the box at the 3 o'clock position, use some one-hole clips to secure your pipe.

You must do this in one piece "NO COUPLINGS"....:laughing:

Doing this is good practice and you can make it even harder for good measure .

Take your time and teach yourself this once you get this down you'll have a much better understanding of bending pipe and installing it like it's a piece of cake.

When you're doing such things as back to back 90's you should use two torpedo levels to make your work perfect the first time.


Have fun messing around with it,as you practice you'll see results within the first 100'.

I've done this myself many times just to get the practice and keep these skills sharp.

Good luck and Welcome to the electrical trade..


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Yes learn how to bend all types of conduit especially if there is a local trade school you can goto.


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## 1.21gigawatts (Jun 22, 2013)

Keep your head on a swivel when you are out at retail locations or large buildings looking at the exposed pipework. Pay attention how the supports are attached and the path of the rack and how kicks, offsets and 90's are laid out. Some will be better than others. I would start with 1/2" emt for practice as it is forgiving.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

When talking about rigid on the forum most everybody mentions the calc's for the bending and threading including the shrinkage which is real important. But........ One more thing to think about, and I admit- modern fittings have negated a lot of what I am going to say about rigid conduit. You need to think thru the entire run of conduit from box to box before you start installing any of the run, or you most likely will be uninstalling some of it on a regular basis, unless your able to use the new threadless fittings they have out now. I'll explain- a couple of 90's and a kick or two makes it awfully hard to spin onto a coupling a length of threaded conduit that has one or more bends when there is not enough room to spin it. Not like emt where you can simply slip the tubing into a coupling. When you learn how to master this thinking it gets much easier , and it helps you out when you run emt if you get to where thinking the whole run thru becomes your mindset. Some specs do not allow union fittings or the new compression ones that have no threads so it pays to learn what I am telling you up in front so you don't paint yourself into a corner. 

Before pvc became the most widely used underground method , we would often be running rigid conduit in trench work as well, and on those jobs I would assemble most of the run up on the topside and lower entire runs into the ditches, especially ones with bends and turns in them.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Mac is correct, in taking the time to figure out your pipe run before you start it.
With EMT. you only have to worry about where to place your pull points. Add assembly to the mix, and rigid gets more complicated. 
Knowing how to work with EMT is a definite asset. 
In this last year, we've worked on 4 projects with rigid (all explosion proof areas), about 30,000 feet altogether, so my guys have gotten quite proficient but tired of the stuff. The first years are really tired of cutting threads and hauling the stuff around :laughing:
Point of pride when working with rigid , minimum use of unions:thumbsup:
Time to get a nice teck job:thumbup:
Although you only have residential experience, apply anyways. Whats the worst that can happen? You don't get the job, but you just might.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

You owe it to yourself to learn as much as you can during your apprenticeship and that probably means working for multiple contractors. You need to learn how to run pipe, definitely. Running EMT will teach you a lot about planning your runs and making bends. Like mac says, rigid takes more planning because you're spinning it on. You're journeyman should teach you that stuff. You need a pipe wrench and a good pair of pump pliers.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

As mentioned here. It doesn't take very long to learn how to bend conduit, the experience comes from routing the conduit elevation to save as many bends as possible while space alloted to other crafts.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

I saw a garage in a plant once that they did in rigid and the guys doing it had no clue what they were doing.. I think I counted close to 50 unions in it!! After looking at it I think I figured the whole thing could have been done using about 5 - end devices only... 
To this day I have no idea why they used rigid in a garage - unclassified and not subject to mechanical damage (light switches and receptacles were at the same height)... Musta been cost plus....lol..


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Learning the proper formulas and techniques of conduit bending is only 1/2 of the battle.

Getting the correct measurement may be the most important part. How can that be so hard? Well, often times you can't just take one measurement to get the offset or 90 distance. You may have to deduct so much for the beam clamp and minnie, add 1-5/" for the unistrut, add so much for threads inside of the JB, etc.

If your measurements are off just a little bit then so will your bend.

Take your time.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

glen1971 said:


> I saw a garage in a plant once that they did in rigid and the guys doing it had no clue what they were doing.. I think I counted close to 50 unions in it!! After looking at it I think I figured the whole thing could have been done using about 5 - end devices only...
> To this day I have no idea why they used rigid in a garage - unclassified and not subject to mechanical damage (light switches and receptacles were at the same height)... Musta been cost plus....lol..


I was taught rigid pipe by old school artists who almost never used unions. It was a matter of pride. The only time we used unions was when we had no choice, usually when we were splicing into an existing conduit run. Those guys are probably bending pipe in the sky now.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

If you want to be an oilfield electrician you better know how to bend pipe, period. That will be your life, no romex in the patch. Like others have said, you have to have the big picture, the entire run and how it will lay out. And no eyeballin'. Measure and calculate each bend. Eventually, after a lot of duds and rejects, you will start to get the hang of it. Takes experience that can only be gained by doing it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

99cents said:


> I was taught rigid pipe by old school artists who almost never used unions. It was a matter of pride. The only time we used unions was when we had no choice, usually when we were splicing into an existing conduit run. Those guys are probably bending pipe in the sky now.


Not all of em, at least not yet. My old employers frowned heavily on unions. I would get an ass chewing when I used one, and a couple of times I went on my own time to Wesco to buy one or two so that the boss didn't have to hear about it. 
PVC wasn't allowed in underground wiring for service station pumps and tank work till sometime late 80's or early 90's as I recall. Once I became a contractor I used to contract a lot of the gas station re-tanking jobs imposed on them by EPA and between that and various security and luggage conveyor jobs at airports I have had my share. Enough. Now its just a service mast or three a year is all I have to bother threading pipe for and that is plenty enough to suit me.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Ask the women .

Real men are Rigid .









Pete


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

mapmd said:


> So even though I'm a new apprentice (just shy of a year) I've been looking at job postings out in the northern mid-west. Almost all of them express a desire for new hires to have an understanding of Rigid or EMT systems (are those the same thing). So anyone have a rundown of what these things are and how they work? Should I get some basic materials and practice with it a bit? If so, what should I get? Like I said we've never used it and I don't think it's required around this area.


If the new hire is a journeyman, having an understanding of, and experience with, RMC and EMT is a reasonable expectation; however, the expectation may be different for a green apprentice. 

Rigid (RMC) and EMT are not the same thing; they are different types of conduit. Even if you don’t ever use it, you should still learn a little about them in code class - see article 300. In a nutshell, RMC is much more heavy-duty and has threaded connections.

Start by doing some thorough exploring of manufacturer's websites, reading conduit bending guides and handbooks, and watching some good YouTube videos; of course this is not the same as actual experience which only comes from hands-on practice.

If you do decided to invest in some hands-on practice, your best bet is to ask around your shop; it’s possible someone may have a bender at home you can borrow. If purchasing a bender, look for one for ¾” EMT and ½” RMC so you can do both. Of course you’d still need to purchase different conduit, fittings, connectors, clamps…




99cents said:


> I was taught rigid pipe by old school artists who almost never used unions. It was a matter of pride. The only time we used unions was when we had no choice, usually when we were splicing into an existing conduit run. Those guys are probably bending pipe in the sky now.


Same here. I was taught unions are a shameful sin. 
Clarification: the three piece coupling kind, not the organized labor kind. :laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

My old boss used to want us to make running threads cause he didn't want to pay for three piece unions.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> My old boss used to want us to make running threads cause he didn't want to pay for three piece unions.


 
Running threads are not legal. Also Triple Crown is on


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

dronai said:


> Running threads are not legal. Also Triple Crown is on



there was way more than that he ''requested '' than running threads. It is dark out. I don't think the Triple Crown is on right now.


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## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

minichopper6hp said:


> Not missing much. Harder to bend and install.


True but its also harder to kink. So it can be easier to cover up screw ups.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Realistically, unless it's an all RMC job, the apprentices are going to be doing the EMT work, and more experienced hands are going to be putting up the more expensive RMC. I don't think a real green guy needs to get too twisted up about lack of rigid knowledge and experience.

Remember also, every job opening you'll ever read is their ideal, pie in the sky candidate. Don't let the fact that you don't meet the criteria prevent you from expressing your interest in the job by way of sending emails, resumes, etc.


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## samc (Oct 19, 2013)

Take it from someone who works with tubing all day, only way to learn it is to get a job in it. Doing a 90 wont teach you anything about pipe bending. You have to be doing the work to learn all the secrets that you can't learn from any book. 

But a good way to start is to buy a bender and practice. And I ageee get a 3/4" bender and start with that. But doing actual installs and not just random bends. 

You are correct, my salary nearly doubled after I went into this line of work. But I will admit that my bending skills def needed improvement in the beginning. Its all practice, just be patient.


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## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

Starting as a residential hand you will learn basic wiring skills and troubleshooting. You will learn to understand circuitry and small calculations. 
As you progress to commercial you will learn conduit bending and fill. Thru trial and error you will learn to plan your routes and how to fix it when you screw up. The big pipe will follow and you will become intimate with the triple nickel and the 881 till you can bend almost anything by yourself. 
As you progress to industrial you will learn That everything you know about emt is worthless and you get sick of bending, threading, and taking back apart because your a 1/2 inch too long or your 90 is open or closed, until one day it will click in your head. You will forget about couplings and connectors and learn about EYSs and LBDs. STL8 will be in your tool box. 
All experience you are gaining right now is valuable, and when you are ready to advance a door will open for you. It's better to be the apprentice who knows how to get it done than a wireman who hasn't got the skill set to accomplish the mission. Keep your head up and put in the work. It will pay off down the road.


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