# GFIs in series OK?



## NJMike (Dec 11, 2016)

Hi all,

I've heard that GFIs must not be installed in series or they won't work properly. Is that true? 

Normally this would not come up on an inspection because I wouldn't be able to see it - e.g., if someone wired a GFI outlet downstream of one that is line-load instead of pigtailed, I wouldn't be able to see it anyway. However, in this case, I see a swimming pool light that is controlled by a GFI switch, but then it is also on a GFI breaker. 

Is this improper? Do I need to tell them to get an electrician? 

Thanks,

Mike


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It's no problem at all.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

The gfi Line / Load is manufactured that way so you do not have 
]to purchase gfi outlet receptacles for each opening


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## Dizzykidd (Aug 3, 2016)

It will work the same way a normal outlet works that is off the load side of an GFCI. It's not wrong just unnecessary to have more than one GFCI if your going to do it that way.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Think of conductors passing thru these>>>










~CS~


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## dc-electric (Aug 1, 2013)

It just tells you that who ever wired it does not know what they are doing and shouldn't be doing it. I would look harder at other things that were done by the "handy-man"


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

NJMike said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've heard that GFIs must not be installed in series or they won't work properly. Is that true?
> 
> ...


What do you mean by a GFI switch?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

dc-electric said:


> It just tells you that who ever wired it does not know what they are doing and shouldn't be doing it. I would look harder at other things that were done by the "handy-man"


Silly statement. I double gfi dock receptacles and shore stations all the time. How many bad GFi's have you replaced. I have replaced a ton and that extra little protection is nice to have. 
I have also powered small tile heat off of the gfi circuit even though the t-stat has gfi protection.

I was swimming in that pool I would rather have that light doubled than not.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> Think of conductors passing thru these>>>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Steve, just how was that helpful? 
You know mike is a home inspector and are just trying to confuse him. Quit being an asshole.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Silly statement. I double gfi dock receptacles and shore stations all the time. How many bad GFi's have you replaced. I have replaced a ton and that extra little protection is nice to have.
> I have also powered small tile heat off of the gfi circuit even though the t-stat has gfi protection.
> 
> I was swimming in that pool I would rather have that light doubled than not.


dc-electric hasn't been here since 2016 yet he stopped by last night to make 4-5 posts, all telling people how they don't know what they are doing


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> dc-electric hasn't been here since 2016 yet he stopped by last night to make 4-5 posts, all telling people how they don't know what they are doing


He really doesn't seem very smart if you go by his posts.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> He really doesn't seem very smart if you go by his posts.


Did you try changing your profile icon on Google? If so, it's still the same on the review.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Did you try changing your profile icon on Google? If so, it's still the same on the review.


No I got busy.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Yeah, you can wire 10 of them up in series.

Then when you have no power, you have to go check each one, till you find the one that tripped.

Just plain stupid to do, if you ask me.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

OCD Alert !

This post rubbed me the wrong way first time I saw it, but it's an inspector so I didn't say anything.

You can't wire ANY receptacles in series.

They are wired in PARALLEL !!! 





I feel better now ... carry on :laughing:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

That was driving me nuts.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

splatz said:


> That was driving me nuts.


Wait ...hold on..If you are one of the guys who rely on 
backstabbing wiring into the back of receptacles (in one
set and out the other set ( with no wire nuts in the box)
that would be in series because it's relying on the device 
for continuity in the circuit...device burns and the rest of 
the circuit downstream is cut off. You know , like old 
Christmas Tree lighting

Wire nutting all conductors , in box , with one tail for each 
device is parallel.

this is how I see the differences


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

lighterup said:


> Wait ...hold on..If you are one of the guys who rely on
> backstabbing wiring into the back of receptacles (in one
> set and out the other set ( with no wire nuts in the box)
> that would be in series because it's relying on the device
> ...


It's parallel either way you described.

Series would be feeding the hot side and coming out of the neutral side and going to the hot in the next receptacle.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

lighterup said:


> Wait ...hold on..If you are one of the guys who rely on
> backstabbing wiring into the back of receptacles (in one
> set and out the other set ( with no wire nuts in the box)
> that would be in series because it's relying on the device
> ...


Remember that all reduces to the old ladder type diagram, the loads on branch circuits are all electrically parallel, even though the physical layout might kind of suggest series connection. 

(BTW the OP is actually talking about something a little different from just parallel, he's talking about arranging the load side of one GFCI device on the loadedit LINE side of another...)


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

splatz said:


> (BTW the OP is actually talking about something a little different from just parallel, he's talking about arranging the load side of one GFCI device on the *Line* side of another...)


fify 

Which is OK (as Hack already said) ... Just confirming in case he comes back and is confuzzed :thumbsup:


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Would be series parallel wouldn't it?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> It's parallel either way you described.
> 
> Series would be feeding the hot side and coming out of the neutral side and going to the hot in the next receptacle.


Quit it, you know what he meant.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> Quit it, you know what he meant.


What ?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Quit it, you know what he meant.


I don't see any difference between pigtailing or feeding in and out of every device. It's parallel either way.

Parallel is two wires, series would be only one.

As for the topic of this thread, I remember having a brain fart on a job years ago when I was much less experienced in resi work trying to think whether you can put a GFCI on a circuit that was already GFCI protected. The way I figured it out was because I was in a bathroom and saw the hair dryer had a GFCI plug on the end of the cord. So it made me realize that apparently it works fine.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Yes, the receptacles are in series with the line voltage of the first GFI, and so on down the line.


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## dc-electric (Aug 1, 2013)

HackWork said:


> dc-electric hasn't been here since 2016 yet he stopped by last night to make 4-5 posts, all telling people how they don't know what they are doing


 
and?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

dc-electric said:


> and?


:boat:


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## dc-electric (Aug 1, 2013)

HackWork said:


> It's no problem at all.


 
So, I re-read his post. He said the light had a built in GFI and the breaker was GFI. I think that's fine for most electricians however
HACKWORK 
your fart smukin reply to me shows how much a little "Thread Queen" you are.

So you will wire multiple GFI's in a row line / load - line / load - line / load? You really think that's a good idea and you come at me for advising the inspector to check all other things someone like you wired up? 

Get a job and stop spending so much time as ruler of the web.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

<---Check out my new title :jester:


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Helmut said:


> Would be series parallel wouldn't it?


hack had best explanation


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

dc-electric said:


> So, I re-read his post. He said the light had a built in GFI and the breaker was GFI. I think that's fine for most electricians however
> HACKWORK
> your fart smukin reply to me shows how much a little "Thread Queen" you are.
> 
> ...


My own pool is fed from a GFCI breaker, then to a GFCI receptacle.
In my little mind, that is actually safer. 
Do you know something I don't ?


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

readydave8 said:


> hack had best explanation


How?

The gfi contacts break both the hot and neutral going to the receptacles and the load side of the GFI?

Therefore, wouldn't the receptacles be in series of these contacts?

Think of a 120V light and switch. Switch is in series with the light. Throw a 2 pole switch in there with hot on one contact and neutral on the other.

Light is still in series with switch.

What am I missing?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

All that's going to happen if you stack one GFCI behind another is you have a race, whichever one trips at a lower threshhold is going to trip first.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

picture worth a 1000 words ...










pic shows lights, but recepts the same.
GFCI changes nothing :no:


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> picture worth a 1000 words ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're missing the circuitry in the GFI?


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## dc-electric (Aug 1, 2013)

emtnut said:


> My own pool is fed from a GFCI breaker, then to a GFCI receptacle.
> In my little mind, that is actually safer.
> Do you know something I don't ?


 
That's the way we do it. I was talking about other applications like bathroom to bathroom. Sometimes these handymen hear "bathrooms need GFI's and mess it all up.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> My own pool is fed from a GFCI breaker, then to a GFCI receptacle.
> In my little mind, that is actually safer.
> Do you know something I don't ?


Trip currents are different on a GFI breaker than a Receptacle aren't they?

I forget which one is greater, think it's the breaker.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> Trip currents are different on a GFI breaker than a Receptacle aren't they?
> 
> I forget which one is greater, think it's the breaker.


As far as I know, they are both set for 6ma. (+/- a few uA )


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> You're missing the circuitry in the GFI?


The circuitry in the GFCI is irrelevant. It just opens the load side if it sees a fault. It is still wired in parallel, like any other receptacle ... whether you connect to line or load side.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> The circuitry in the GFCI is irrelevant.


Why is it?



emtnut said:


> It just opens the load side if it sees a fault. It is still wired in parallel, like any other receptacle ... whether you connect to line or load side.


Exactly, that means the receptacles, in this case the duplex faces, are in series with the line side contacts. No?

If so, this means all GFI's receptacles downstream of these contacts are in series with the line side of the first GFI contacts right?.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I guess a better example would be a switch turning on and off a receptacle.

But use a 2 pole switch.

Now think of the switch, as the contacts inside a GFI receptacle.

Switch is still in series with the receptacle, not in parallel.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *emtnut*  
_The circuitry in the GFCI is irrelevant._

Why is it?
It would be like saying a breaker is wired in series with regular receptacles

Quote:
Originally Posted by *emtnut*  
_
It just opens the load side if it sees a fault. It is still wired in parallel, like any other receptacle ... whether you connect to line or load side._

Exactly, that means the receptacles, in this case the duplex faces, are in series with the line side contacts. No?
No ! :no:

If so, this means all GFI's receptacles downstream of these contacts are in series with the line side of the first GFI contacts right?. 

no, they are still in parallel.

If they were in series, they would divide the voltage across them !


Not sure where you're getting confused.... A gfci is just a receptacle, only it can open the contacts on the line side ... apart from that, it's just a recept.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> I guess a better example would be a switch turning on and off a receptacle.
> 
> But use a 2 pole switch.
> 
> ...


Yes, a single pole switch (like a light switch) is wired in series.

A double pole would be wired in parallel thou


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Wow ! This is basic guys. Listen to emtnut, and hax Series- One single wire passes thru the load (resistor), and the only way out is thru one single wire


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> ]It would be like saying a breaker is wired in series with regular receptacles


It's not?

I suppose I need a refresher course.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Helmut said:


> It's not?
> 
> I suppose I need a refresher course.


To be in series, you would have to plug something in the receptacle for the circuit to close :laughing:


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

dronai said:


> To be in series, you would have to plug something in the receptacle for the circuit to close :laughing:


No, A breaker is in series with receptacles.

Prove me wrong. Draw it out.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

dronai said:


> To be in series, you would have to plug something in the receptacle for the circuit to close :laughing:


Any unused outlet would require a jumper to be plugged into it for anything on the circuit to work.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

And I'm not saying a receptacle is in series with each other, I am stating that GFI receptacles are in series with the break contacts inside a GFI receptacle.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

dronai said:


> To be in series, you would have to plug something in the receptacle for the circuit to close :laughing:


You jumped from a breaker to a receptacle. I was responding to emtnut about the breaker.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> It's not?
> 
> I suppose I need a refresher course.





Helmut said:


> No, A breaker is in series with receptacles.
> 
> Prove me wrong. Draw it out.


Yes, you are right there ... the switch part of the breaker is in series with the hot wire.... I was trying to say that from the breaker (power source) that all receptacles are wired in parallel .... If the recept is a GFCI, that doesn't change anything.

I'll check back in the morning ... I can draw it out for you if it hasn't clicked in yet :thumbsup:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Honestly,what the **** is wrong with you people? You totally ****ed up this guys thread.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Yes, you are right there ... the switch part of the breaker is in series with the hot wire.... I was trying to say that from the breaker (power source) that all receptacles are wired in parallel .... *If the recept is a GFCI, that doesn't change anything.*
> 
> I'll check back in the morning ... I can draw it out for you if it hasn't clicked in yet :thumbsup:


If the GFCI is pig tailed it changes nothing if it's fed through not so much!


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> Yes, you are right there ... the switch part of the breaker is in series with the hot wire.... I was trying to say that from the breaker (power source) that all receptacles are wired in parallel .... If the recept is a GFCI, that doesn't change anything.
> 
> I'll check back in the morning ... I can draw it out for you if it hasn't clicked in yet :thumbsup:


No argument there. 

Now draw out the line side of the GFI receptacle, it goes through break contacts within the receptacle itself, and then feeds the load side.

Tell me if the load side is, or is not in series with those break contacts.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> No argument there.
> 
> Now draw out the line side of the GFI receptacle, it goes through break contacts within the receptacle itself, and then feeds the load side.
> 
> *Tell me if the load side is, or is not in series with those break contacts*.


It is a double pole action, and is in parallel :thumbsup:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> Honestly,what the **** is wrong with you people? You totally ****ed up this guys thread.


HE started it  ... Where's the forum MoM when you need her :001_huh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The Thread Queen will kick the Forum Mom's ass any day of the week.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> It is a double pole action, and is in parallel :thumbsup:


It can't be. Just can't.

Are all 240V switches in parallel t their loads? No, they in series.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> HE started it  ... Where's the forum MoM when you need her :001_huh:


I didn't start it, although I did confuse the hell out of them, and got them thinking,:thumbsup:

I still say wiring GFI's like the OP stated is a form of a series parallel circuit.

And I'm explaining how.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> I guess a better example would be a switch turning on and off a receptacle.
> 
> But use a 2 pole switch.
> 
> ...


OK... I'll try explaining this different.
Regular switch leg on a light ... yes, the switch is in series. This light itself is in Parallel with the power supply .. right 

Now think of 2 receptacles on a circuit ... parallel right ?

Now place yourself at the first receptacle... you have the 2 wires for the second receptacle in your hand .... you touch the hot and neut with them to power up the second recept. That is exactly what the GFCI is doing.
So everything is still parallel.




Helmut said:


> I didn't start it, although I did confuse the hell out of them, and got them thinking,:thumbsup:
> When I said 'HE' ... i meant the OP :thumbsup:
> I still say wiring GFI's like the OP stated is a form of a series parallel circuit.
> 
> And I'm explaining how.


clearer ?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Helmut said:


> No, A breaker is in series with receptacles.
> 
> Prove me wrong. Draw it out.


There you go a series circuit, and a parallel circuit.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> OK... I'll try explaining this different.
> Regular switch leg on a light ... yes, the switch is in series. This light itself is in Parallel with the power supply .. right
> 
> Now think of 2 receptacles on a circuit ... parallel right ?
> ...


No arguments so far. You're leaving out the break contacts inside the GFI.
That is what I have been saying all along.

Normal receptacles do not have these.

These break contacts inside the GFI, are in series with the rest of what ever is downstream. Everything downstream of these contacts are in parallel of each other. Whether they are regular receptacles of other GFI's.

Do you see it yet?


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

dronai said:


> There you go a series circuit, and a parallel circuit.


Wouldn't the bottom one be a series parallel circuit?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> No arguments so far. You're leaving out the break contacts inside the GFI.
> 
> Normal receptacles do not have these.
> 
> ...


read this again !!!!

... think of 2 receptacles on a circuit ... parallel right ?

Now place yourself at the first receptacle... you have the 2 wires for the second receptacle in your hand .... you touch the hot and neut with them to power up the second recept. That is exactly what the GFCI is doing.
So everything is still parallel.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> Do you see it yet?


Argggghhh!!!! Do YOU see it yet !


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> Argggghhh!!!! Do YOU see it yet !


Look at a GFI's internal circuitry. Find the break contacts that kill the power.

You'll see it then.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Helmut said:


> Would be series parallel wouldn't it?





Helmut said:


> Yes, the receptacles are in series with the line voltage of the first GFI, and so on down the line.



That's all I said.

Never said receptacles were in series with each other.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

If there is nothing plugged into the gfi, will it still work ?

If you trip the gfi breaker, you are opening up the parallel circuit !


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

dronai said:


> If there is nothing plugged into the gfi, will it still work ?
> 
> If you trip the gfi breaker, you are opening up the parallel circuit !


Yes, 

Yes, a breaker feeding GFI's would be a series parallel circuit, I would think.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Helmut said:


> Yes,
> 
> Yes, a breaker feeding GFI's would be a series parallel circuit, I would think.


 Just stare at that series drawing and don't ever mention that word here again

:laughing:


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

That was a fun thread. You guys had me rethinking so much stuff.:thumbsup:

You had me believing a switch and a breaker were wired in parallel.

Been a long time since I learned that stuff.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Helmut said:


> That was a fun thread. You guys had me rethinking so much stuff.:thumbsup:
> 
> You had me believing a switch and a breaker were wired in parallel.
> 
> Been a long time since I learned that stuff.


 I never said a residential switch was in parallel. A breaker from it source to it's termination screw is in series, but every else on the branch circuitry for a building is a parallel circuit. Goodnight


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

A breaker is a switch. An automatic switch, but it's a switch, SPST. It just breaks the circuit and it happens to be right on the bus. 

A GFCI is also an automatic switch. It breaks both the neutral and the hot so it's a two pole single throw switch (DPST). One pole of the switch is in series with the hot leg, one pole of the switch is in series with the neutral. 

A picture is worth a thousand words, but for me, sometimes I have to DRAW the picture, not just look at it for the a-ha bulb to come on over my head. 

GFCI's break at 5ma +/- 1ma so 4-6ma for safety, both breakers and receptacles, but there's also GFPE devices to protect equipment which can have MUCH higher trip threshhold (like 1000+ amps).


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

(The actual circuit in the GFCI is a little more complicated) 

From https://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/NEMA-GFCI-2012-Field-Representative-Presentation.pdf


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> A breaker is a switch. An automatic switch, but it's a switch, SPST. It just breaks the circuit and it happens to be right on the bus.
> 
> A GFCI is also an automatic switch. It breaks both the neutral and the hot so it's a two pole single throw switch (DPST). One pole of the switch is in series with the hot leg, one pole of the switch is in series with the neutral.
> 
> ...


The GFCI receptacle is in parallel with the other GFCI receptacles, that's what the discussion was about. 

The thread starter was speaking about the GFCI receptacles themselves when he said they were in series. They are not, they are in parallel. Someone else later brought in the internal switches/circuitry of the GFCI to try and find a way to be correct.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> The thread starter was speaking about the GFCI receptacles themselves when he said they were in series. They are not, they are in parallel.[\quote]
> 
> 
> Technically, they are in a series parallel configuration.
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Since the thread is over a month old and the thread starter hasn't been here in weeks, I now claim ownership.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> The GFCI receptacle is in parallel with the other GFCI receptacles, that's what the discussion was about.


Hmmm, now that I think about it... 

If you look at the GFCI receptacle as a DPST switch, it doesn't really make sense to talk about the whole device in series or parallel. You can try to beat it to death with semantics but there are two poles in there. 

The hot pole of the first GFCI receptacle is in series with the hot pole of the downstream GFCI device. The neutral pole of the first GFCI receptacle is in series with the neutral pole of the downstream GFCI receptacle. 

I think the OP was just using the term casually, but if you look at it that way, you can make the argument they are in series. 

A regular receptacle is just a parallel tap. 

With few exceptions, for electrical, the loads are in parallel, the switches are in series, and if you look at GFCI devices as DPST switches, you could say they're in series.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Helmut said:


> Yeah, you can wire 10 of them up in series.
> 
> Then when you have no power, you have to go check each one, till you find the one that tripped.
> 
> Just plain stupid to do, if you ask me.


This was your first statement in this thread.

That is just WRONG information.

I'm still not sure if you're a troll or just dumb


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Hmmm, now that I think about it...
> 
> If you look at the GFCI receptacle as a DPST switch, it doesn't really make sense to talk about the whole device in series or parallel. You can try to beat it to death with semantics but there are two poles in there.
> 
> ...


 Just to reiterate what I said in my last post, The 0P wasn't talking about the internal switches. He was talking about the outlets themselves. Outlets are in parallel.

The internal switches were only brought into this by one person to try to make his argument correct. The internal switches really have nothing to do with this topic at all.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

emtnut said:


> This was your first statement in this thread.
> 
> That is just WRONG information.
> 
> I'm still not sure if you're a troll or just dumb


 You're making me love you.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

By Helmut's definition, regular receptacles are wired series/parallel also.

If you only look at ONLY the hot wire, it is in series with the rest of the hots on that circuit.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> You're making me love you.


I'm feeling it too .... not sure how that happened


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Just to reiterate what I said in my last post, The 0P wasn't talking about the internal switches. He was talking about the outlets themselves. Outlets are in parallel.


I see what you mean, looking at the receptacle part of the GFCI as a separate component - separate from the switches - it's still just a parallel tap. 
:thumbsup: 

Power distribution would be a nightmare if you didn't keep all the loads in parallel. All that series / series-parallel stuff is for inside devices / loads.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

No splazt, I mean looking at the GFCI as a whole unit. No one is breaking it down into a receptacle and set of switches. That makes no sense, it's just what one guy is doing to try and finagle his way into winning a stupid argument.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> You're making me love you.





emtnut said:


> I'm feeling it too .... not sure how that happened


You never know where cupid will strike! 

And, you never know how disturbing it might be to watch for us innocent bystanders.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I feel like I gave the only decent advise in the whole thread. The rest came from the fluffers.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The normal electrical circuit in a house is a parallel circuit. Just because there is a breaker in line with the hot wire, it doesn't turn that into a series parallel circuit. It's still a parallel circuit. 

The same with wiring GFCI receptacles to each other. They are wired in parallel. The fact that there are internal switches doesn't change that.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> This message is hidden because sbrn33 is on your ignore list


:no:


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

emtnut said:


> This was your first statement in this thread.
> 
> That is just WRONG information.


Yes, I was wrong by saying you can wire them up in series.
I should of not used the word series.

The rest of the post about being a stupid way of wiring them up, and how you would have to try to find the one that tripped, I stand by.





emtnut said:


> I'm still not sure if you're a troll or just dumb


Not a troll, dumb compared to some people I will give you.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> The normal electrical circuit in a house is a parallel circuit. Just because there is a breaker in line with the hot wire, it doesn't turn that into a series parallel circuit. It's still a parallel circuit.


That is incorrect. 
A normal Household circuit is a series parallel circuit, in fact, I can't think of any household circuit that is truly a parallel circuit.
If you can show me one, from the breaker to the load, I am all ears.




HackWork said:


> The same with wiring GFCI receptacles to each other. They are wired in parallel. The fact that there are internal switches doesn't change that.


I agree. I don't think I ever stated on this thread that they weren't. I stated that the load side of a GFI is in series with the line side contacts, technically making it a Series Parallel circuit.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

splatz said:


> A breaker is a switch. An automatic switch, but it's a switch, SPST. It just breaks the circuit and it happens to be right on the bus.
> 
> A GFCI is also an automatic switch. It breaks both the neutral and the hot so it's a two pole single throw switch (DPST). One pole of the switch is in series with the hot leg, one pole of the switch is in series with the neutral.
> 
> ...


Helmet, you even liked this. Take a close look because it is accurate. If you throw in a switch it would be between the receptacle and L1. So that little part is series but the circuit as a whole is parallel.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Emtnut, FWIW, you really had my brain thinking last night with the 1 wire in a switch is series, and 2 wires make it parallel. And when you stated a breaker is not in series with a load, I really thought I lost it.

It's been a long time for me thinking about basic stuff like that. 

Sometimes I like these discussions, cause it makes me think about stuff I haven't used in a long, long time.:thumbsup:


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> Helmet, you even liked this. Take a close look because it is accurate. If you throw in a switch it would be between the receptacle and L1. So that little part is series but the circuit as a whole is parallel.



I see a series parallel circuit drawn there. 

How is it not?

Take the breaker and break contacts out of that drawing, and yes, I would see a truly parallel circuit.

Oh, is it because that a switch contact or break contact offers such little resistance, that it is not considered part of a circuit? Now that could be.....


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Helmut said:


> I see a series parallel circuit drawn there.
> 
> How is it not?
> 
> ...


No I agree with you actually.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

HackWork said:


> it's just what one guy is doing to try and finagle his way into winning a stupid argument.



:yes:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> *I feel like I gave the only decent advise in the whole thread.* The rest came from the fluffers.


Watch out don't injure your elbow!


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> That makes no sense, it's just what one guy is doing to try and finagle his way into winning a stupid argument.


No, it's not a stupid argument. It's a polite discussion about things some of us may or may not of forgot about the simplest of things.

If any of us took a page out of your playbook, we'd all throw hissy fits about being right or wrong, call each other jerks and idiots, and then throw each other on ignore.

But we don't play by your rules.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Watch out don't injure your elbow!


Sabrina needs this. I didn't want to steal his thunder :jester:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Christ, it's just a 'n GFI guys, ....get over it!  ~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Christ, it's just a 'n GFI guys, ....get over it!  ~CS~


The first reply had it right.

That guy is not only smart, but damn good looking.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> Christ, it's just a 'n GFI guys, ....get over it!  ~CS~


Stevie..:no:...your a funny guy


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

Wait until we get to the hard questions such as .....does the rotating electrical field change direction nearer the South Pole ?
Or....do we really care ?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

chicken steve said:


> Christ, it's just a 'n GFI guys, ....get over it!  ~CS~


Jezus Stevie ... It's just a 'n GFI ... but we need to know if they're in series 

:jester:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Jezus Stevie ... It's just a 'n GFI ... but we need to know if they're in series
> 
> :jester:


6 pages and 104 posts it could have more than one season in the series.


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