# Need some advice



## toddpritch (Jan 9, 2015)

I have been in the trade for almost 5 years and am about to get my journeymans license this month. I am tired of doing the basic switches, lights, receptacles, etc. and I would like to specialize my skills. 

Controls, VFDs, and PLCs really interest me but I am having a difficult time figuring out how I can get my "foot in the door" so to speak. Where can I get training for this and most importantly what are my best options? 

I would like to get with an installation company for a few years to learn more and then possibly get with a company like Siemans, Trane, Johnson Controls, etc. and become a technician. 

I do have some low voltage(Hvac/VAV) experience however it was during the first few years of my apprenticeship and I didn't have the understanding of things like I do now.

How can I get into this field? What do employers care about the most? What would you do if you were me? 

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

There are 200 free courses here.

*Schneider Electric:* the global specialist in energy management

You have to sign up! 

At least you can read and choose to study up on things of interest, and only spend your time as desired. 

There are courses that do require money.


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

CADPoint said:


> There are 200 free courses here.
> 
> *Schneider Electric:* the global specialist in energy management
> 
> ...


I use a ton of their stuff and I didn't even know these existed. Bookmarked.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

NC EET said:


> I use a ton of their stuff and I didn't even know these existed. Bookmarked.


....X2:thumbsup:


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## mikey383 (May 21, 2012)

X3! :thumbsup:


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## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

toddpritch said:


> I have been in the trade for almost 5 years and am about to get my journeymans license this month. I am tired of doing the basic switches, lights, receptacles, etc. and I would like to specialize my skills.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am having a similar problem. I have a little less experience and my state doesn't have a j-mans license, but I would love to be in the field of energy management, controls and automation. But I have no idea how to get "my foot in the door" like you said. 

Those courses are great thank you. Knowledge is power. 

But anyone with any advice on where/how to look for employment in these fields I would also like to know. 

Thanks in advance.


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## mikey383 (May 21, 2012)

toddpritch said:


> I have been in the trade for almost 5 years and am about to get my journeymans license this month. I am tired of doing the basic switches, lights, receptacles, etc. and I would like to specialize my skills.
> 
> Controls, VFDs, and PLCs really interest me but I am having a difficult time figuring out how I can get my "foot in the door" so to speak. Where can I get training for this and most importantly what are my best options?
> 
> ...


IMO, the best training you can get is the hands-on type. Classes help, but if you're not out there working on the equipment all the time, you tend to forget what you learned in the class. 

I had 12 years in installation, then took a position at a local factory as an operator/maintenance tech. I took a slight pay cut, but looking back, the experience was well worth it. I worked there for about 3 years troubleshooting the machines I ran. If I needed help, I called the maintenance crew, who would assist me, and taught me a lot about PLCs and VFDs. That job allowed me to get a foot in the door with a small local contractor (which I'm currently with) who is contracted to do all installation, programming, and troubleshooting at a local food processing facility. This company has paid for my training on PLC programming, HMI programming, and basic Fanuc programming classes, amongst other classes. 

I love my job, because it challenges me nearly every day. Some days I'll do installation, some days I'm troubleshooting a machine, some days I'm doing programming.


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## knomore (Mar 21, 2010)

It's almost like everyone who just got a license wants to be a plc guru. There are a lot more jobs bending pipe and pulling wire than there are landing a control cabinet.


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

knomore said:


> It's almost like everyone who just got a license wants to be a plc guru. There are a lot more jobs bending pipe and pulling wire than there are landing a control cabinet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I couldn't imagine why that is. More money, less physically demanding, better working conditions, better hours...

I honestly can't see what the fuss is about, you're right.


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## knomore (Mar 21, 2010)

I've been in the controls business for a decade. It's not better paying. It is less physically demanding. The working conditions are no better other than having a bucket to numb your butt on. Might even be a bit worse considering you are isolated and do the same mind numbing task for hours on end. You work the same hours as all the rest or more. 


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## jimhan (Jan 10, 2015)

mikey383 said:


> This company has paid for my training on PLC programming, HMI programming, and basic Fanuc programming classes, amongst other classes.


 Is that the old GE Fanuc 90/30's ?? or does G.E. have a new version now?

A factory that I worked at years ago had the 90/30's and, if memory serves me correctly, the Series 1's.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

mikey383 said:


> IMO, the best training you can get is the hands-on type. Classes help, but if you're not out there working on the equipment all the time, you tend to forget what you learned in the class.
> 
> I had 12 years in installation, then took a position at a local factory as an operator/maintenance tech. I took a slight pay cut, but looking back, the experience was well worth it. I worked there for about 3 years troubleshooting the machines I ran. If I needed help, I called the maintenance crew, who would assist me, and taught me a lot about PLCs and VFDs. That job allowed me to get a foot in the door with a small local contractor (which I'm currently with) who is contracted to do all installation, programming, and troubleshooting at a local food processing facility. This company has paid for my training on PLC programming, HMI programming, and basic Fanuc programming classes, amongst other classes.
> 
> I love my job, because it challenges me nearly every day. Some days I'll do installation, some days I'm troubleshooting a machine, some days I'm doing programming.


Similar to my background as i also came from construction to factory work 25 years ago.
I am no expert in any discipline. But can adapt to any control type environment. I learned this by doing it and taking advantage of what my distributors and manufactures provide me as training for free.
I was able to get a job with a distributor and put down my tools.



knomore said:


> It's almost like everyone who just got a license wants to be a plc guru. There are a lot more jobs bending pipe and pulling wire than there are landing a control cabinet.


Who needs a license to do this work. In fact, most of the guys I worked with were not electricians. They were college graduates that got these jobs because of college. The distributor and manufacturer guys I mean.
Having experience actually working on this stuff is a giant help.



knomore said:


> I've been in the controls business for a decade. It's not better paying. It is less physically demanding. The working conditions are no better other than having a bucket to numb your butt on. Might even be a bit worse considering you are isolated and do the same mind numbing task for hours on end. You work the same hours as all the rest or more.


I am not sure what you mean. Knowing more than other candidates equals more pay. It always has in my career.
Of course a guy can make good money running pipe all day, but some guys like myself always wanted more.
Wanting and working towards these objectives raised my salary and made my working conditions much better.
I would rather sell or provide the product, teach people how to use the product, help them to correct issues with the product, than I would be actually doing the labor part of it.
It also paid more. A base salary with commission allows you to make as much as you can. You just have to work harder to make more.


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## jimhan (Jan 10, 2015)

In my experience, talented electrical troubleshooters have always made more than the every day installer.
If you really want to make "good" money putting your electrical training and experience to work, then mining electrical work is something you may want to check out. Decent mining electricians make anywhere from $50K up to about $200k depending on where they work.


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## mikey383 (May 21, 2012)

jimhan said:


> Is that the old GE Fanuc 90/30's ?? or does G.E. have a new version now?
> 
> A factory that I worked at years ago had the 90/30's and, if memory serves me correctly, the Series 1's.


GE and Fanuc split a while back. I can't even recall what type we have, becuase I typically don't have anything to do with them. They normally don't have any issues. I know we have 4 really old robots and 2 brand new ones. 




knomore said:


> I've been in the controls business for a decade. It's not better paying. It is less physically demanding. The working conditions are no better other than having a bucket to numb your butt on. Might even be a bit worse considering you are isolated and do the same mind numbing task for hours on end. You work the same hours as all the rest or more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm making almost double what I did doing installation. Yes, it is less physically demanding, but at times it's more mentally demanding, especially when you're troubleshooting a machine that has been modified and either has no prints, or the last person didn't update them. Add to that, not having the correct parts on hand and having to modify the wiring to make a certain part work until you can get a replacement part delivered. 

I will agree on the hours...they're not much better. While our installation crew normally goes home after 8 hours, I might be there 14 hours or more until I get a machine up and running again after a major failure.

EDIT: 

I'll add that wiring a control cabinet is also much different than doing troubleshooting or programming. There's nothing fun about wiring a cabinet.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

NC EET said:


> I couldn't imagine why that is. More money, less physically demanding, better working conditions, better hours...
> 
> I honestly can't see what the fuss is about, you're right.


*More money, probably for some

*less physically demanding, yeah, but mental stress of get the line working 

*Better working conditions, nope, don't agree

*Better hours , wrong !! 
Longer hours, stay until it's working.


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## ScooterMcGavin (Jan 24, 2011)

To be a truly good PLC "guru" you have to be skilled in so many seemingly unrelated skills.

1) The basics of computer programming, and how computers think, Binary, hexadecimal, arrays, structures, object orientated programming concepts, logic design, Boolean algebra.

2) Computer networking. How to setup IP addresses DHCP, VPN's. If you can't connect the PLC to the computer than you won't be able to do much with it.

3) Process control (depending on the industry) PID's, control loops, cascade control, feedforward etc. How different pumps work, flow dynamics through valves.

4) Instrumentation: Transmitters(temp, pressure, level, flow. etc) How they work and how to troubleshoot them.

5) Electrical and motor controls: How starters work, VFD's, overloads etc. etc.

6) Pneumatics: How valve positioners work, how valve actuators work, the different fail modes and how to troubleshoot a valve that doesn't want to do what the PLC tells it to do.

7) Technical writing: Can you document the PLC program and describe succinctly how everything is supposed to work?

8) Detective: When the operator just says "Yup it don't work" Can you ask the right questions to coax the real problem out of him, or what he did that broke it and he doesn't want to admit to.

9) Politician: Can you tell people to get lost and let you do your job without pissing everyone off and making enemies? Can you explain what the problem was without completely throwing somebody under the bus for their bone headed mistake?

10) Oh yeah, and you know have to know how to program PLC's and how the PLC works as well.

Programming is usually the simplest part. If everyone has done their job it should be a simple matter of throwing some rungs on the screen and hitting the go button. But how often does that happen?

I realize you don't need all these skills for every job. If you want to be a prima donna programmer who just barks orders from your computer thats one way to approach it. But if really want to be in an elite group, you can pretty much fix any problem that comes up regardless of whether it's the program (very rare in my experience) or the broken sensor in the field. 

And yes the hours can be terrible and the stress is incredible at times but I wouldn't give it up for anything.


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

scameron81 said:


> To be a truly good PLC "guru" you have to be skilled in so many seemingly unrelated skills.
> 
> 1) The basics of computer programming, and how computers think, Binary, hexadecimal, arrays, structures, object orientated programming concepts, logic design, Boolean algebra.
> 
> ...


Excellent post!


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## GuessLogical (Jan 17, 2015)

scameron81 said:


> To be a truly good PLC "guru" you have to be skilled in so many seemingly unrelated skills.
> 
> 1) The basics of computer programming, and how computers think, Binary, hexadecimal, arrays, structures, object orientated programming concepts, logic design, Boolean algebra.
> 
> ...



This sums it Up!


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## Jairus (Feb 19, 2014)

From siemens you can try this link.

http://www.industry.usa.siemens.com...-courses/Pages/Online-quickSTEP-Training.aspx


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