# Unbalanced load?



## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

You have lost a leg somewhere. I suspect the breaker may be bad looking at that last picture. When turning on the dryer, you induce voltage on the dead leg and things appear to have voltage, but will not support a load.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

jbfan said:


> You have lost a leg somewhere. I suspect the breaker may be bad looking at that last picture. When turning on the dryer, you induce voltage on the dead leg and things appear to have voltage, but will not support a load.


That's what I was just thinking, because the power only lasts about 5 to 10 minutes after i turn the dryer on, id hate to use my damn dryer to switch on half the house until tomorrow so I can check out what's going on, the neutral wire from the ouside disconnect is pretty da





















mn loose but I tightened it up and its still doing this, I'd have no idea where one of my hot legs may be lost at though, ill start at the breaker panel and go from there. Hell, if I have to ill test the voltage between the 2 legs and the neutral where the PoCo service drop comes in,


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Just kill the main and test for 240v. and 120v on each leg. If not, call the POCO now.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Just kill the main and test for 240v. and 120v on each leg. If not, call the POCO now.


One leg measures 118.5 and the other measures 125.8, damn. That ain't right


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Metersocket648 said:


> One leg measures 118.5 and the other measures 125.8, damn. That ain't right


Probably bad neutral, did you use a low impedance meter?


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

mofos be cray said:


> Probably bad neutral, did you use a low impedance meter?


Yes I did,


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Metersocket648 said:


> One leg measures 118.5 and the other measures 125.8, damn. That ain't right


(edited)
measure leg to leg and leg to ground with the main off on the incoming side

repeat with main on but on the load side. 

post all 6 numbers


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Personally I would not backfeed through the dryer to keep the power on. If anything, temporarily move the necessary circuits to the working phase until POCO can fix (assuming it's on their end.)


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

dspiffy said:


> Personally I would not backfeed through the dryer to keep the power on. If anything, temporarily move the necessary circuits to the working phase until POCO can fix (assuming it's on their end.)


I wouldn't either, i taken some necessary stuff like my fridge, nuker, and my TV and ran an extension cord to another 20 anp citcuit for tonight and tomorrow morning, I just bought a new panel and mobile home feeders and I go pick them up tomorrow morning, ill post before and after pics of the install, its about time I need an upgrade anyway.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

gpop said:


> (edited)
> measure leg to leg and leg to ground with the main off on the incoming side
> 
> repeat with main on but on the load side.
> ...


So with power on its 117.6 from phase to ground, 125.9 from phase to ground and from phase to phase its 238.9 and power off its 121.6 phase to ground, 121.4 phase to ground and 241.7 phase to phase


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

It's 1.30am and maybe I'm not thinking clearly but it seems to almost certainly be a neutral issue on your side.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

dspiffy said:


> It's 1.30am and maybe I'm not thinking clearly but it seems to almost certainly be a neutral issue on your side.


But why would it be when I turn on my dryer, it induces a voltage into the other leg and powers on everything? Idk if its a neutral or a dead leg in the system🤔🤔


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

dspiffy said:


> It's 1.30am and maybe I'm not thinking clearly but it seems to almost certainly be a neutral issue on your side.





dspiffy said:


> It's 1.30am and maybe I'm not thinking clearly but it seems to almost certainly be a neutral issue on your side.


Well now its gotten to the point to where if we turn the dryer on, the other phase turns on, but as soon as we turn the dryer or any other 240volt load off, the other phase goes out again, at some points in time I'm measuring 121.5 phase to ground on one leg and 0v phase to ground on the other and hardly anything in between the two phases, 😫😩 if its my main breaker that's not functioning properly, I aint looking forward to replacing a whole panel, especially in this cold weather in Ohio, i need my heat and my furnace runs on a 90 amp circuit and I only have a portable generator rated for 30 amps🥺 oh well, that'll give me another discussion topic where I will post my before, mid installation and after pics🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Metersocket648 said:


> View attachment 154139


I suggest you a fall of potential test on this device (also at the MB in the panel in the trailer). Since you have one leg to neutral working and the other one not (at least that's what I understand you to be saying) I think it's not the neutral and it appears you have a defective breaker on one leg. The fall of potential test should confirm this (or not  ).


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> I suggest you a fall of potential test on this device (also at the MB in the panel in the trailer). Since you have one leg to neutral working and the other one not (at least that's what I understand you to be saying) I think it's not the neutral and it appears you have a defective breaker on one leg. The fall of potential test should confirm this (or not  ).


Good thing my fluke tester does fall of potential.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

oldsparky52 said:


> I suggest you a fall of potential test on this device (also at the MB in the panel in the trailer). Since you have one leg to neutral working and the other one not (at least that's what I understand you to be saying) I think it's not the neutral and it appears you have a defective breaker on one leg. The fall of potential test should confirm this (or not  ).


fall of potential test . At this point i think call a electrician or take a guess and start changing parts is probably a better option.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

A few minutes with a Wiggy walking it out from the WIRES first at the main breaker, then the lugs and on out will tell you what the problem is. Likely a bad main breaker or the POCO has a bad crimp on one leg.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

The amount of time talking about this it could have had a whole new service installed.

From your posts it sounds like an ungrounded conductor is missing. These can be hard to troubleshoot when it could be a POCO issue outside that is blowing in the wind.

Where I am, we can call the POCO to come check their end first. They'll use a device they call the BEAST to check the wiring to the main breaker. I think the beast is a load bank and power quality analyzer but I'm not sure.... All I know is that thing sure would be handy to have for this lol


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I would start looking here, at the breaker just below.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I hate to say it but these photos should be posted in "Gems of the trade". Times are tough right now for many of us and coming up with the extra time and money to do a service change out is not always possible. It's common for electricians to do real nice installs for others but we neglect our own stuff. This really looks like a priority in this case. At least I would re-dress the service and fit it with new breakers and cabling where needed even if it's an issue with your incoming utility this panel looks like it's on it's last leg.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Easy said:


> It's common for electricians to do real nice installs for others but we neglect our own stuff.


TRUTH! ^


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## jkvas (Dec 30, 2017)

Metersocket648 said:


> So this house had perfect working electrical wiring. Until this morning, i woke up, and tried to put some oatmeal in the microwave, wouldn't turn on, it was plugged in so I just figured hey, its time to get a new one, went to go heat it up on the stove (electric stove 240 volts) and it wouldn't turn on, some stuff in the house had power, and some stuff especially my 240 volt load appliances had no power, so I went to the breaker panel and checked the breakers, everything was on, now I was really concerned, so I took a step further, went out to the outside meter pole (I live in a mobile home and my electric meter and main disconnect is on the pole outside) and checked the main disconnect out there, i opened the panel cover and the fist thing I noticed was it looked like my SE cable between the meter and the outside main disconnect was burnt on one of the 120 volt conductors. At this point I immediately thought to myself that we are pulling an imbalanced load, so i went back inside to the breaker panel, and looked at what phase carried each breaker, and come to find out, the 120v circuits that weren't functioning were all on the same phase, the kitchen circuits and bed/living room circuit were off as well as all of my 240volt appliances were not functioning, so I turned every single breaker off, shut the main off, turned the main breaker back on and turned each individual breaker on at a time and everything turned on like normal, then it happened again a few minutes ago, I went outside to shut off the main disconnect, and made sure my SE conductors that are coming from the service pole to my inside breaker panel were tightened, so i checked that, the only one that needed tightened was my neutral line from my service pole, and even after that, half my house still loses power from time to time, just now it happened and I turned on my dryer and everything turned on, could it be the transformer on the utility side ( it is a really old transformer too)
> View attachment 154139
> View attachment 154140
> View attachment 154141


Imbalanced load is a possibility, but a loose terminal screw can cause thermal connection decay and get worse over time. This then creates an imbalanced load. Where possible, I always take the opportunity to put a screwdriver blade to all the terminal screws in a panel and torque-check or tighten all the connections. I usually find something can use a bit of tightening.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Metersocket648 said:


> But why would it be when I turn on my dryer, it induces a voltage into the other leg and powers on everything? Idk if its a neutral or a dead leg in the system🤔🤔


Really you're not inducing voltage thru dryer, make a drawing that shows dryer as resistor to see how you're feeding back thru dryer breaker to make dead half of panel 'hot (but less volts)

By the way, from description, is not neutral problem


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Metersocket648 said:


> But why would it be when I turn on my dryer, it induces a voltage into the other leg and powers on everything? Idk if its a neutral or a dead leg in the system🤔🤔


It is not an induced voltage. Are you an electrician? These are basic things that an electrician knows... What is a series circuit for 2000$ please Alex...


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Just kill the main and test for 240v. and 120v on each leg. If not, call the POCO now.


I commented in a recent thread about the same thing happening to one of my clients.... As it ended up the POCO had to replace their old rusty pole line transformer.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Kevin said:


> Where I am, we can call the POCO to come check their end first. They'll use a device they call the BEAST to check the wiring to the main breaker. I think the beast is a load bank and power quality analyzer but I'm not sure.... All I know is that thing sure would be handy to have for this lol


The beast is basically 2 coil heaters and a fan with 2 volt meters on the front. It simply loads both legs and converts the energy into heat that is blown out the sides. While its doing that you watch the needles to see what the voltage is doing. I have personnel seen the beast unable to find a bad neutral. It was only after they replaced a neutral crimp we found that 90% of the homes load was on one leg including a workshop wired with a 100 amp 120v so-cord feed to a sub panel (That was more single leg load then the beast could put on the meter can).


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

readydave8 said:


> Really you're not inducing voltage thru dryer, make a drawing that shows dryer as resistor to see how you're feeding back thru dryer breaker to make dead half of panel 'hot (but less volts)
> 
> By the way, from description, is not neutral problem


So its more of the stove that does this but for example: Phases A and B both go to one stove element, so when i turn on the stove, the 120 volts goes through the element and goes back to the panel through phase B (the dead leg) and the voltage from the stove on phase B powers the bus bar on that dead phase, thus feeding the voltage through the rest of the breakers on phase B, then the loads (a lamp for example) gets the voltage from phase B (powered by backfeed through the stove) and goes through the lamp and back through neutral finally completing a circuit, but in this case the stove element and lamp are in parallel, thats why nothing on phase B is full power. The lamps still turn on but are significantly dim, the damn TV won't even turn on. Basically everything on phase B is in parallel with the stove.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Metersocket648 said:


> So its more of the stove that does this but for example: Phases A and B both go to one stove element, so when i turn on the stove, the 120 volts goes through the element and goes back to the panel through phase B (the dead leg) and the voltage from the stove on phase B powers the bus bar on that dead phase, thus feeding the voltage through the rest of the breakers on phase B, then the loads (a lamp for example) gets the voltage from phase B (powered by backfeed through the stove) and goes through the lamp and back through neutral finally completing a circuit, but in this case the stove element and lamp are in parallel, thats why nothing on phase B is full power. The lamps still turn on but are significantly dim, the damn TV won't even turn on. Basically everything on phase B is in parallel with the stove.


You have this correct in the way you are explaining how the voltage gets from A phase to B phase. I would not use the word "parallel" to explain what's happening because the 120V light (or whatever) that is connected to B phase and neutral is getting a hot from the series connection to A phase through the stove (or dryer or some 240V load).


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> You have this correct in the way you are explaining how the voltage gets from A phase to B phase. I would not use the word "parallel" to explain what's happening because the 120V light (or whatever) that is connected to B phase and neutral is getting a hot from the series connection to A phase through the stove (or dryer or some 240V load).


I meant series lol, I was thinking of something else while typing that


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Metersocket648 said:


> I meant series lol, I was thinking of something else while typing that


LOL, I bet everyone in here has done that. 

So, it's been 3 days. Did you fix this? What was the problem?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I have closed the thread as the op is not responding to questions asked by a moderator. Also, a lot of questions about his personal home leads us to believe he is not an electrician. We will wait and see.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I have re-opened this thread seeing as the op responded and has been an electrician for a year and a half


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