# Apprentices....AAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!



## JacksonburgFarmer (Jul 5, 2008)

I have hired another apprentice, yesterday was his third day. I dont think this is gonna work...The BOY dont get it...Yesterday, he had to go home at 1:30 to, no ****, he said "clean his room":laughing: WTF??? Today he could come in untill 9 am because he had to watch his niece. :001_huh: 

SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO PEOPLE THESE DAYS???

The kid was then mad because I told him to stay home the rest of the week. This kinda crap is why the country is in the shape it is in. This boy is 18 years old. Cant correctly ID a *HOLE hawg* and *Band SAW* laying side by side when i ask for the drill to drill through 6X6 beam, or the saw to cut a peice of 2" EMT. Didnt know how to use a file, list goes on and on.... :bangin:

I knew when i hired him he didnt have much knowlege or experiance, but good night, this is rediculous......I think it is about time for the firin' ax....:wallbash:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Sometimes it's tough to fire someone so fast but you gotta let him go. He will give you high blood pressure and it's obvious he does not want to work.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

Never hire two apprentices that know each other & travel together in one vehicle. While I tried trusting them on a residential rough stage wiring in a secluded area, I found that they spent countless hours ramming rx staples in rows up in the rafters, scribbling artwork with a marker on the above side of the trusses and charged me for full day production.
When separating them, neither of them were worth anything and then asked me for a letter of recommendation when I let them go.

While they assured me of their experiences in other matters, Later, I found that they wired 24 hour timers backwards and excepted beer from a customer and then drove one of my company trucks back while under the influence.

I couldn't get away with not even being one minute late when an apprentice in my day, much less make my own self interests an ounce worth more than the company I worked for.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*Getting it off my chest, & then I won't say anymore.*

Since this subject had opened regarding 'Help', I'll attempt to share all that I remember concerning my experiences with apprentices & unlicensed journeymen.


An apprentice using a customer's brand new bath tub to throw up this nasty red colored, nose-hair curling, stomach convulsing mess that the employee didn't clean and then denied doing when the only worker on site in a week.
Another apprentice used service calls to meet women. Initial complaints were handled with doubt, but then as the complaints continued and the denials climbed, our employee turned out to not only have a very healthy libido, but another chance of looking for a job.
A unlicensed journeyman came at the usual time, loaded his tools and took a company truck for his assignment. Then he went directly home and went back to bed. A chance visit at the job site revealed that he didn't arrive at the job site all week long, but claimed 40 hours in his time sheet.
Another unlicensed journeyman picked fights with the superintendent and was barred from the jobsite. Then again from two more projects.
Another apprentice was caught sleeping on a piece of cardboard but claimed a full days work. The sleeping incident was brought to my attention only after he decided to quit.


Another apprentice hid in a jobsite porta-pot for four hours while the whole time on his nextel radio - While being observed and timed by owner.
So little is to be said for today's apprentice. And much testing and scrutiny of any potential employee.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Lazy kids who don't want to do anything and draw a paycheck, so they can go out and party all night. 

Guess I was raised the "old school" way... Father was in the military so it was show up early, leave late. Talk only when spoken too. List goes on, lol.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Kids think electricians don't have to work hard and get paid a lot. Then reality sets it. OR they get fired.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I thought I didn't start work until my 2nd year in...


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Our maintenance manager was to have a meeting with an apprentice yesterday to discuss classes he needed to take. 2 hours before the meeting, he had an emergency and had to leave. Turns out, he had to go home and water his lawn.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Don't want to work,go Home!


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

JacksonburgFarmer said:


> I have hired another apprentice, yesterday was his third day. I dont think this is gonna work...The BOY dont get it...Yesterday, he had to go home at 1:30 to, no ****, he said "clean his room":laughing: WTF??? Today he could come in untill 9 am because he had to watch his niece. :001_huh:
> 
> SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO PEOPLE THESE DAYS???
> 
> ...


#1) Bad excuse. (clean rm.
#2) watch Niece... Your let go... Not fired.
#3) Not knowing stuff.. tools etc. That is your job to teach. If you're too busy to teach basics a better screening process is needed.
Or a better advertising for what you need.

Personaly, I love teaching the kids, But and only if they want to learn. This only takes a day or 2 to figure out. He does not appear to be one of them.
Sometimes, the best helpers are.... the ones that stay in the truck!!!

As Far as what is wrong with people today....... You can't yell at or demand anything of them as you may "damage their phsyc"
I say too F$#@%^&G Bad!!!!!
Thats how you learn. Get demands placed upon you!!!

SH*& or get off the pot!!! This is life!! deal with it or find something else to do!

Most times you can get more done alone.

Best of luck. (can him)


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

In my opinion If this is a young kid, I totally put the blame on his parents for not preparing him to enter the real world. I see it all the time with parents now adays. For some reason it seems that more and more parents totally spoil their kids and they dont want to say no to them. Beileve me I have many examples of this even my cousins treat their kids like that. 
My old man was tough with me. Once I turned 16 I had a part time job after school, and their was no discussion on it. He told me "no part time job no wrestling" 
This summer I did alot of work at this one builders house that I worked for, and his kid (17 yrs old) would get up at 1:00!!!!!! in the AFTERNOON?. My dad would never let this happen. I remember I used to resent him for being so strict but looking back I cant thank him enough for pushing me. To this day I have a very solid work ethic, as does my wife who had equally tough parents. Dont get me wrong he wasnt totally unreasonable but .....getting up at 1;00 and no job HELLLL no. 
Kids are a direct relation to how their parents raised them.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

I remember one apprentice I had working with me. 1st day on any job, he was 18 and completely green, he tells me, "I had to quit smoking pot to get this job, but I still sell it" I just thought, what a dips**t. After a couple weeks, we were climbing in the racks installing cable tray. We needed some material so I was sending him to go get it. He had no pencil or paper. I told him to hold out his arm, then took a sharpie and wrote the list on his arm, and told him not to forget a pencil and paper anymore, he never did. He ended up washing out several months later


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Great points and points taken.
But without going into societies ills (wich I will glady partake in )

If we look at the young ones comming up now, and perhaps thier parents careers. we will probably see most parents are in the Hi-Tech Data splurge erra. With no real mechanical skills as Dad took care of that to put them thru school.
Nothing wrong with that. 
I think there is a half a generation that got no practical life skills due to the technical boom.
Along with that came the "Kindler-Gentler" crap.
I'll stop now. Need to keep the BP down.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

sparky970 said:


> I remember one apprentice I had working with me. 1st day on any job, he was 18 and completely green, he tells me, "I had to quit smoking pot to get this job, but I still sell it" I just thought, what a dips**t. After a couple weeks, we were climbing in the racks installing cable tray. We needed some material so I was sending him to go get it. He had no pencil or paper. I told him to hold out his arm, then took a sharpie and wrote the list on his arm, and told him not to forget a pencil and paper anymore, he never did. He ended up washing out several months later


That's so irritating hearing a story like that. I tried to get in the Union several times years ago and just got a run around. This kid was in and at 18. he could have had himself a nice carear. Some kids wouldnt know oppertunity if it came up and slapped them in the face.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

leland said:


> Great points and points taken.
> But without going into societies ills (wich I will glady partake in )
> 
> If we look at the young ones comming up now, and perhaps thier parents careers. we will probably see most parents are in the Hi-Tech Data splurge erra. With no real mechanical skills as Dad took care of that to put them thru school.
> ...


Hey man Im alright with that, I cant tell you how many silly service calls ive been on cause no one in the house has any clue how to fix anything and i mean anything. I fixed a ladys toilet once, hung an old ladys curtains another time, and I cant tell you how many light bulbs ive change. I charged this one lady an extra 100 bucks to change 4 light bulbs. Granted they were 25 feet high and I had to navigate and extension ladder through a room full of "Chachkies". But she had no problem with it, she said "oh finally its been 6 months ive been asking my husband to do it"


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## JRent (Jul 1, 2008)

I know what you guys are taliking about, i think the problem is that they dont konw what they want. Let me explain, im 24 with 2 years experience, one day an apprentice asked me how come i know so much and know how to do so much, if we almost have the same time doing electrical, and i asked him, is this what you want to do your whole life until you retire? he replied no. he said he didnt know what he wanted to do.
The problem is that these young kids dont want to be elctricians, the just work for the paycheck. Unlike them i want this trade to be my carreer for life therefore i try to learn as much as i can.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

JRent said:


> I know what you guys are taliking about, i think the problem is that they dont konw what they want. Let me explain, im 24 with 2 years experience, one day an apprentice asked me how come i know so much and know how to do so much, if we almost have the same time doing electrical, and i asked him, is this what you want to do your whole life until you retire? he replied no. he said he didnt know what he wanted to do.
> The problem is that these young kids dont want to be elctricians, the just work for the paycheck. Unlike them i want this trade to be my carreer for life therefore i try to learn as much as i can.


You found a good spot to proceed!!:thumbsup:

FWIW, I started at 22 yrs too. Laid off truck driver with "issues", 23 yrs later... Best thing I ever did. Best thing.
Alot of good things have followed, but this was the best thing I ever stumbled into.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

JRent said:


> I know what you guys are taliking about, i think the problem is that they dont konw what they want. Let me explain, im 24 with 2 years experience, one day an apprentice asked me how come i know so much and know how to do so much, if we almost have the same time doing electrical, and i asked him, is this what you want to do your whole life until you retire? he replied no. he said he didnt know what he wanted to do.
> The problem is that these young kids dont want to be elctricians, the just work for the paycheck. Unlike them i want this trade to be my carreer for life therefore i try to learn as much as i can.


That's a good point. I too changed careers years ago and I went to college and joined the USMCR. I definitely know that this is what I want to do.


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## JacksonburgFarmer (Jul 5, 2008)

I belive that it is mostly his parents fault. They have never taught him how to do ANYTHING, and dont even have a clue to tell him to go to work instead of pussyfooting around. I also enjoy teaching apprentices about the trade...And i have worked with apprentices before that didnt have enought knowlege to get out of a paper bag. BUT This goofballl wouldnt show up enough to teach anything.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

That is definitely a big part of most of the kids nowadays problem they don't know what they want to do. All they really know is they want money, and for free.

I had an apprentice that everyday on the way to the job would beg to stop by mc'd's for breakfast. Everyday it was the same answer you should have done that s*** before you got in my truck. I finally had to let him go because of crap like that everyday it was some reason to leave the job site, I sent him to go get a small list of parts from Irby. I called the list in to on of the counter guys I'm familiar with and it was ready and waiting for him when he walked in the door, they said he spent 45 minutes drinking coffee and talking. I couldn't believe it 45 minutes he was just sitting there!!!


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

I did have an apprentice that at 24 had been a manual machinist for 4 years. He work with me on his first job. It only took about 2 days to see he had great mechanical abilities, was willing to learn, not even phased by all the ribbing and joking a greenhorn gets from all the JW's, and a great personality. It was too bad he had to rotate out at 6 months. Since he topped out he has always had a job.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

leland said:


> You found a good spot to proceed!!:thumbsup:
> 
> FWIW, I started at 22 yrs too. Laid off truck driver with "issues", 23 yrs later... Best thing I ever did. Best thing.
> Alot of good things have followed, but this was the best thing I ever stumbled into.


I washed dishes in a country restaurant since I was sixteen. Graduated high school, didn't know what I wanted to do. Went to ITT Tech and got my Associates in Computer and Electronics Engineering Tech., couldn't find much of a job with that, customer support tech was about it, until it all went to India. Decided to go to the university here and major in Telecommunications Systems Management and got caught up in partying and not showing up to classes. Then was put on academic probabation, this pissed my father off. He in turn, got a hold of one of his good friends who runs a union pipefitting shop and had me go to work for them as a 'here's what the real world is,' to scare me back into school. My boss at that time called him and told him he had a problem. Ended up that I liked the work too much, which he started me off on jackhammering, which I don't mind at all. 

Ended up going into electrical work since it matched my background, in a way. Now working as full-time as I can while finishing up my degree that I will probably never use. I figure since I have thrown so much money into the degree, it would be pointless not to get it. 

It does piss my fellow students off when I show up for class all sweaty and smelly, I don't mind though, find it quite entertaining. Actually have landed a few contracts for the company through my professors, especially one business professor who deals heavily with buying rental houses to fix up.

All in all I love this trade, constantly learning and am staying busy even with the economic downturn, I won't get started on that though :no:.


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## Billy_Bob (Aug 25, 2008)

When I was a kid and I met an electrician, I was in awe!

Wow! A REAL electrician - an opportunity to ask questions and learn.

An electrician was way up there in my book, better than meeting the President!

Then every time I would see construction work going on, I would stop and watch what they were doing. Learn how things are done. Other kids would do the same. If the electricians were working, this was even better. Sometimes an electrician would invite me to watch and explain what he was doing. This was the best!

But these days it seems kids are not interested in watching construction or anything involved with "work". They would rather go play their video games.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*Thought I wasn't going to add to this but, here goes more:*

Between the 80's and the 90's, I worked for a few electrical contracting companies. Having a masters in-active during that time, but fresh out of still being dependent on others for their knowledge. You can go by the NEC but every jobsite involved specs that while the end result being the same, the methods of going about it were always different. When employed by others -especially in the beginning, you didn't say much except observe and learned the companies ways of doing things. You then ran with it while within company guide lines then melded into acceptance by owners, their family and subordinates. Your interest was always for the company in which hired you, and once proving yourself, you became one of the family. But, when in the beginning, while observing, the noticing of other workers and their methods of taking advantage of the company that has just hired you, you have just been introduced to their stealing hours and thievery, then offered to participate since having witnessed their actions. No, I didn't squeal nor did I give them reason(s) to ever hold something against me. As the new guy, you wonder to remember to not do as this company has done in trusting. Instead, you remember not to hire these same people if you were to be your own company again.

You usually see these guys (two apprentices - one knowing more than the other) in the supply houses, admiring the Klien tools and wasting time.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*Well, with no one commenting on this, I'll add another.*

At this same company for 4.5 years, I decided to leave for greener pastures. I was asked to train someone to replace me. They hired a non-licensed journeyman to handle all service calls and provide bids quotes in the field. This new guy asked me "if the boss would let him do side work", I told him that I didn't think so - as I knew it not appropriate. I told him that it be best if he asked. After I left my employment with them, I learned that he not only provided bid quotes for the company, but another bid quote for himself - and usually got that work on the side since his price was always lower than the quote he provided for the company. I was contacted months later to work a little for them, and I discovered that the company that I worked for were all going mad over turn down inspections - for jobs they didn't have records for. I visited these jobs and not only discovered the two bid scams but that there were 17 jobs with permits that he had the company permit girl pull permits for. He only kept the paper work and the money.

Then, I found out that when I left, they paid him $5. more an hour than they were paying me. I had the in-active masters and gave them my unflinching loyalty, they hired a non-licensed for more $ and betrayal. 

What a World.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Wow, $5 more, that's a big difference. 

You get paid what you accept, it looks like he wouldn't accept less and got it.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*YOU are absolutely Correct Sir.*



gilbequick said:


> Wow, $5 more, that's a big difference.
> 
> You get paid what you accept, it looks like he wouldn't accept less and got it.


Even today, I get phone calls from not only out of work electricians such as licensed, non licensed journeymen, experienced apprentice but also those wanting to begin from scratch without any experience. I talk to them, and when I ask what they want in a salary... 9 out of 10 usually say "TOP DOLLAR!"
Nobody, at the bottom, is willing to be paid minimum to start with. (I know the costs of living) but when I took the job where I stayed for 4.5 years, I accepted less than licensed journeyman wages. About what a non-licensed journeyman would get, and then worked my way up. (I accepted appreciation, being taken out to frequent lunches & dinners , personal invitations with the owners over more money in my paycheck.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

alcoelectrical said:


> Even today, I get phone calls from not only out of work electricians such as licensed, non licensed journeymen, experienced apprentice but also those wanting to begin from scratch without any experience. I talk to them, and when I ask what they want in a salary... 9 out of 10 usually say "TOP DOLLAR!"
> Nobody, at the bottom, is willing to be paid minimum to start with. (I know the costs of living) but when I took the job where I stayed for 4.5 years, I accepted less than licensed journeyman wages. About what a non-licensed journeyman would get, and then worked my way up. (I accepted appreciation, being taken out to frequent lunches & dinners , personal invitations with the owners over more money in my paycheck.


If your in a state that requires a journeymens license than what is a non licensed journeymen? I would say a experienced apprentice.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*You are Correct sir - Ed McMan*



Bkessler said:


> If your in a state that requires a journeymens license than what is a non licensed journeymen? I would say a experienced apprentice.


Lots of electricians that have much experience consider themselves journeymen, except they don't hold a journeyman's card. Lots of electrical companies have these guys ranging up in position as their 'head electricians' and some are 'supervisors' in charge of helpers. If someone possessed an actual journeyman card, you were big stuff. Anyone with a 'masters' card and you were highly respected and just about every apprentice mentioned wanting to one day take the master's exam.

Between the 80's & 90's - minimum was around $5. hr. A highly experienced apprentice (considered a journeyman) $9. hr. Lic. Journeyman - $12. hr.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I know they are self proclaimed journeymen, I just would not acknowledge it. Call it a motivational tool.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*State of Fl. Requirements NOW enforced*



Bkessler said:


> I know they are self proclaimed journeymen, I just would not acknowledge it. Call it a motivational tool.


No more 'self proclaimed' journeymen. Now enforced on all jobsites: There better be a licensed journeyman or the contractor himself at time of inspection or the job gets shutdown.


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## baldoman (Sep 17, 2008)

My dad never raised me to be a hard worker, mainly cause he wanted me to go to school and get some behind-a-desk-job, But he sure was hard on me, any mistake i made would result in an ass beating. i learned real quick not to mess up and do my **** right. well once out of high school i joined the USMCR and i learned how to work hard and stick to whatever it is your doing, 15 mins early, leave 45 mins late. make sure everything looks good when you leave. although i am only a trained aviation mechanic, nothing to do with the electrical field, but i do have a good work ethic, work at a lumber yard hauling timbers on my back and 94lbs of concrete all day, and i hope someone gives me the opportunity to be an apprentice for them.

Oz


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

alcoelectrical said:


> No more 'self proclaimed' journeymen. Now enforced on all jobsites: There better be a licensed journeyman or the contractor himself at time of inspection or the job gets shutdown.


That is the way it should be, in CA we have a license with zero enforcment.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*Sounds familiar to my background & Admirable*



baldoman said:


> My dad never raised me to be a hard worker, mainly cause he wanted me to go to school and get some behind-a-desk-job, But he sure was hard on me, any mistake i made would result in an ass beating. i learned real quick not to mess up and do my **** right. well once out of high school i joined the USMCR and i learned how to work hard and stick to whatever it is your doing, 15 mins early, leave 45 mins late. make sure everything looks good when you leave. although i am only a trained aviation mechanic, nothing to do with the electrical field, but i do have a good work ethic, work at a lumber yard hauling timbers on my back and 94lbs of concrete all day, and i hope someone gives me the opportunity to be an apprentice for them.
> 
> Oz


The above is what lacks in most potentials today. just about every candidate as an apprentice turns up at an interview with an ipod headphone in their ear after speeding up into your parking lot with music blasting. Then, expecting an easy and rewarding career.


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

alcoelectrical said:


> No more 'self proclaimed' journeymen. Now enforced on all jobsites: There better be a licensed journeyman or the contractor himself at time of inspection or the job gets shutdown.


Here there better be one license for every non-licensed person. A ratio of one to one is ridiculous IMO.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

Mountain Electrician said:


> Here there better be one license for every non-licensed person. A ratio of one to one is ridiculous IMO.


Here it is one to one for first year apprentice, and then 1 to 2 if both apprentice are 2 years or better.


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*Another 'apprentice' story - Not unlike the norm*

One of my employees came to me and said that one of his friends wanted to apply for work in my company. I received the call from him and listened to why he wanted to come on board with us. Currently, he was employed by the same company that I worked 4.5 years for. This disgruntled apprentice claimed to have lost his tool pouch from a locked company truck, behind a fenced yard at the company office during a break in. The company (that I worked 4.5 yrs for) had implemented an insurance regulation that did not cover personal items left in vehicles. And for anyone that took the chance of leaving their tools, the company would not be responsible. This apprentice proceeded to tell me that when the company wouldn't replace the tools, he deliberately sat down on the jobsite for 8 hours and didn't lift a finger to work in order to earn back his tools worth. Like I was supposed to agree with him and welcome him on board, I told my employee that referred him to never recommend a friend again.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

This apprentice proceeded to tell me that when the company wouldn't replace the tools said:


> Dang I was on the apprentices side till you hit that last thought.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

brian john said:


> Dang I was on the apprentices side till you hit that last thought.


me too, I can't believe the apprentice thought that was acceptable.


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## baldoman (Sep 17, 2008)

what an idiot guy, i know i have no room to speak cause im not even an apprentice, but what was he thinking....


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## calimurray (Apr 29, 2007)

we have this 19 yr old apprentice who is as dumb as a box of rocks. I told the boss he's not picking things up. The kid can't read a tape measure, send him to the truck to get something you'll kick yourself saying I should of went myself,I told him to put wire nuts on the wires in this box he spliced the red and the white together and used one wire nut. And blew the circuit.

The boss told him to take down 2 coach lights that needed to be relocated he cut the fixture wire out and didn't pull the wires out of the box.

I told him the other day to take a piece of conduit and stick it through the rolls of wire for easy pulling. He took a piece of conduit and pushed the wire through it and hooked the fish tape to the wires on the other end,then he was really confused.

these kids now a days have no common sense, no motivation, all he wants to do is hide on the job site and text his friends. 

I fear for the future of America If we don't teach our kids real life skills we will be sorry. The schools and Government have not done a good enough job .


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

calimurray said:


> we have this 19 yr old apprentice who is as dumb as a box of rocks. I told the boss he's not picking things up. The kid can't read a tape measure, send him to the truck to get something you'll kick yourself saying I should of went myself,I told him to put wire nuts on the wires in this box he spliced the red and the white together and used one wire nut. And blew the circuit.
> 
> The boss told him to take down 2 coach lights that needed to be relocated he cut the fixture wire out and didn't pull the wires out of the box.
> 
> ...


 how do these kids make it to 18?

I guess I just don't understand since I grew up on a farm, but I was able to stick weld when I was ten years old, I see all the time 18-20 year old kids that can't even bolt together a unistrut rack to hold conduit because they just don't understand how to assemble anything.

I think more kids need fathers that are real men. I absolutely cannot stand when I go to a house and the MAN OF THE HOUSE is there and he has myself and another trade fixing things. Damnit nobody comes to my house and fixes anything I do it all. I just don't get these people are they too good to do blue collar work and therefor they don't teach their kids any mechanical skills?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

You know what. The older guys considered us dumb as a box of rocks in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's and this generation will curse the next group headed up the ladder. 

Sometimes it takes them a while to catch on, other times they never catch on and go back the Wendy's or Walmart.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

brian john said:


> You know what. The older guys considered us dumb as a box of rocks in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's and this generation will curse the next group headed up the ladder.
> 
> Sometimes it takes them a while to catch on, other times they never catch on and go back the Wendy's or Walmart.


Im only 21, I'm part of the generation most people are cursing right now, and I'm also cursing at them, for being dumb when they have the chance to be a lot smarter!


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## kawaikfx400 (Jul 14, 2008)

im 23 and work as hard as i possibly can 50-60 hour weeks every week and go to school and learn as much as i can because i came from nothing and want to be successful, unlike these spoiled ones that dont have money issues. i have things because ive earned em, if ya dont have to earn em you'll never have a good work ethic.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

kawaikfx400 said:


> im 23 and work as hard as i possibly can 50-60 hour weeks every week and go to school and learn as much as i can because i came from nothing and want to be successful, unlike these spoiled ones that dont have money issues. i have things because ive earned em, if ya dont have to earn em you'll never have a good work ethic.


I'll be honest and say my parents gave me way more than I deserved as a kid but when I turned 18 the gravy train stopped and I got rocketed into the real world. I started making a living on my own very quickly!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

dowmace said:


> Im only 21, I'm part of the generation most people are cursing right now, and I'm also cursing at them, for being dumb when they have the chance to be a lot smarter!


 
My point is it is human nature to say. Kids whats the matter with kids today, kids, never listen to a thing we say, why can't they be like we were perfect in every way, what's the matter with kids today?

Bye Bye Birdie sometime in the early 60's


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

dowmace said:


> Im only 21, I'm part of the generation most people are cursing right now, and I'm also cursing at them, for being dumb when they have the chance to be a lot smarter!


A lot smarter like how.. by not accepting someone's pants half down his hips, like the wanna be's with rap blaring that apply for work and while they work they have have the mentality of common sense.
Besides, try climbing a ladder with them short stubby legs


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## alcoelectrical (Aug 19, 2008)

*Representing your company*

When you are on a jobsite, whether it be a new construction, no matter what type res. comm. or indus - you're representing your company.
Pierced earrings in an eyebrow, one in a nostril, tats up both sides of your neck and your clothes that make you look like you have really short legs and you want to show off your underwear - don't ask for a job and if you're working for someone already, please don't ask if you can do service calls because since you don't care, the company must not either.

Although, I do happen to have a pierced hole in one ear. BUT THAT"S IT!


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

When I was growing up, my dad had drag cars, drag boats, sandrails, dirt bikes, etc. I learned how do to mechanical things early. When I got to high school I got to take them all to auto shop and work on them. There was only a handful of people in our city with toys like this, so it was cool to work on them in shop.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

sparky970 said:


> When I was growing up, my dad had drag cars, drag boats, sandrails, dirt bikes, etc. I learned how do to mechanical things early. When I got to high school I got to take them all to auto shop and work on them. There was only a handful of people in our city with toys like this, so it was cool to work on them in shop.


i helped my dad swap his 290 to a 390 in his AMC rambler when I was 9 and then we did a full engine overhaul on his AMC AMX when I was 10, so needless to say I grew up very mechanically inclined!


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

dowmace said:


> i helped my dad swap his 290 to a 390 in his AMC rambler when I was 9 and then we did a full engine overhaul on his AMC AMX when I was 10, so needless to say I grew up very mechanically inclined!


 
My dad started with a 1970 AMX with a 390. After that he ran a 390 in a 32 Bantam, 27-T, and a 23-T altered. Always an odd combination, but very reliable.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

sparky970 said:


> My dad started with a 1970 AMX with a 390. After that he ran a 390 in a 32 Bantam, 27-T, and a 23-T altered. Always an odd combination, but very reliable.


awesome to hear there is still some AMC guys out there!


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## headrec (Feb 25, 2008)

I will be the first to say I don't know how some journeyman put up with apprentices (me) at times. I am very mechanically inclined (tear cars down and put them back together) but coming into this trade has been a very humbling experience to say the least. Honestly I will be thinking at times "I am a dumbass.":bangin: I guess things move at a fast pace and its easy to fall behind on whats going on and little setbacks or mistakes happen. So thank you to the patient people who keep teaching even when it seems hard and keep working on giving us a chance. I am picking it up quickly and a lot of the journeyman think I am an awesome apprentice (yeah you can see my chest puffing up haha) but I still have a lot to learn and a lot of mistakes to make. So try to understand its a learning curve for us apprentices, but over time we will eventually catch on.:yes:


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

headrec said:


> I will be the first to say I don't know how some journeyman put up with apprentices (me) at times. I am very mechanically inclined (tear cars down and put them back together) but coming into this trade has been a very humbling experience to say the least. Honestly I will be thinking at times "I am a dumbass.":bangin: I guess things move at a fast pace and its easy to fall behind on whats going on and little setbacks or mistakes happen. So thank you to the patient people who keep teaching even when it seems hard and keep working on giving us a chance. I am picking it up quickly and a lot of the journeyman think I am an apprentice (yeah you can see my chest puffing up haha) but I still have a lot to learn and a lot of mistakes to make. So try to understand its a learning curve for us apprentices, but over time we will eventually catch on.:yes:


Thats a good point of view to have. It's better to have the attitude of I don't know how to do this but i can learn, than to say I know everything when you walk on to the job. 

When I was an apprentice I had a jw that expected me to know everything as a second year, I was ahead of most apprentices at 2nd year but still I didn't know everything. He would leave me working running 2" GRC in the snow by myself as he sat in the truck with the heater on. Then at the end of the day tell me my work looked like sh** because I didn't do something the way a JW would have. He just didn't get that I was an apprentice :blink:


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

Some will say that it is natural for every generation of adults to complain about the younger kids just entering the workforce. Some say kids today are no different than they were 30 years ago, they just have different quirks/fads. I strongly disagree. In 1975, when I was a teenager, I worked on the family farm and in the summers I ran a custom hay baling operation. I used my dad's tractor, hay mower, baler and wagons and bought my own fuel and split the profits with dad. When it was time to bale and put up hay for a customer it only took 15 minutes of phone calls to have a crew of 6-8 teenage boys ready to work. I got paid by the bale so I paid them by the bale. In all the years I ran that business and the years dad ran it before me and after me I could count the slackers who showed up to work on one hand. Dad continued the custom baling for about 10 years after I gave it up but finally gave it up himself for lack of willing workers. Neighboring farmers today use Mexican migrants to put up baled hay now. High school kids find that job beneath them nowadays. A friend of mine manages a McDonalds and says the kids from the rural areas are always the best workers but even they are getting fewer and farther between. She said last week a kid came in to work and she told him to empty all of the trash cans in the dining room. He looked at her in disbelief and said, "but I did that yesterday!" I have no idea what he thought he was going to do instead. The work ethic i dealt with in the 70s is scarce among teenagers and young adults today.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

*cetwo*

On the street at 17 ,told i would never make it ,hooked up with a electrical contractor ,remember non unoin shop ,worked 6 days a week ,went to school for electrical /electronics/H.V.A.C,plumbing ,remember i was told i would not make it !Now that's called being assertive and busting your tail......how bad do want to learn ,you can do it if u try??????????/ Never say i can't do something........:jester::thumbsup:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

amptech said:


> Some will say that it is natural for every generation of adults to complain about the younger kids just entering the workforce. Some say kids today are no different than they were 30 years ago, they just have different quirks/fads. I strongly disagree. In 1975, when I was a teenager, I worked on the family farm and in the summers I ran a custom hay baling operation. I used my dad's tractor, hay mower, baler and wagons and bought my own fuel and split the profits with dad. When it was time to bale and put up hay for a customer it only took 15 minutes of phone calls to have a crew of 6-8 teenage boys ready to work. I got paid by the bale so I paid them by the bale. In all the years I ran that business and the years dad ran it before me and after me I could count the slackers who showed up to work on one hand. Dad continued the custom baling for about 10 years after I gave it up but finally gave it up himself for lack of willing workers. Neighboring farmers today use Mexican migrants to put up baled hay now. High school kids find that job beneath them nowadays. A friend of mine manages a McDonalds and says the kids from the rural areas are always the best workers but even they are getting fewer and farther between. She said last week a kid came in to work and she told him to empty all of the trash cans in the dining room. He looked at her in disbelief and said, "but I did that yesterday!" I have no idea what he thought he was going to do instead. The work ethic i dealt with in the 70s is scarce among teenagers and young adults today.


It's hard to come by farms in Philadelphia, or New Orleans...or any major city.

In any case, I'm happy there are so many idiots, that means there's a helluva lot less competition for me.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

After I read all your stories, now I can see why no one wants to hire a beginning apprentice.:001_unsure:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I had an apprentice that come in to work about an hour late and said that he had fallen asleep on his couch and was dreaming that he was at work. All I could do was just laugh at him:laughing: because that was original.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I had an apprentice that come in to work about an hour late and said that he had fallen asleep on his couch and was dreaming that he was at work. All I could do was just laugh at him:laughing: because that was original.


That use to happen to me all the time when I was supposed to be up to go to school.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I had an apprentice that come in to work about an hour late and said that he had fallen asleep on his couch and was dreaming that he was at work. All I could do was just laugh at him:laughing: because that was original.


Did he say that he woke up tired? :laughing:

All kidding aside, I have been dreaming about work, and then the alarm woke me up.....


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

You could always say on payday ' I was sure I paid you, are you certain that you have not just got confused in a dream '


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Trimix-leccy said:


> You could always say on payday ' I was sure I paid you, are you certain that you have not just got confused in a dream '


 We ragged him for month's about this.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wireless said:


> That use to happen to me all the time when I was supposed to be up to go to school.


I woke up shaved, showered and ate hit the road when I noticed the truck clock had 2:30 AM, 4.5 hours to kill, better than late.


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## Sparkyprentice (Oct 24, 2008)

First day on the job, food poisoning. Looked and felt like a disaster. The only reason I wasn't canned on the spot (I later found out) was that I still showed up on time and worked until the boss sent me home out of pity several hours later, but still shy of a full day. 

A month later, some 'issues' arose that were dumped on me to handle. An ailing family member that chose for me to make decisions for him was the first hit, then a family of six was murdered last year's Christmas eve (while still caring for my grandfather). I was friends with one of the victims and had gone to school with one of the two accused. Wanted to work to escape all of that, but more-so, really just needed some 'time' with all of that on my plate. My boss was very understanding, even considering how busy the work was at the time, the big thing was keeping him informed.

Around all of that, I've given him 100% every day. By now, I'm sure that he's fully aware that I really do want this to be my career and that alone has probably spared me the chopping block more times than I know. It's not just a paycheck to me. It's the opportunity every day to learn and develop the required skill set to earn the kind of paycheck that in part drew me to this field, and mostly to be one of the lucky few that get to work in a field that they didn't just fall in to, but chose and enjoy. 

It's easy to dump on the new guys, and to bemoan the coming generations, I get it...lots of losers out there that don't think they need to put in an honest day's work. But maybe this topic wouldn't be as common if more employers would realize that it's a different market than whenever they started out. Maybe they shouldn't be hiring ten random bar-flies in a row that happened to come knocking and concentrate instead on finding new ways to attract/reach new talent that's actually worth the investment that's required to make electricians (etc.,) out of them. The talent still exists, it's probably just not found by the same means as 'before'. That's not to excuse the slackers clogging so many jobsites right now, but the best approach to handling them is to let your competition waste their time with them, unless of course you actually want to go out of business.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Well, unfortunately, anymore, manual labor has the stigma of being reserved for the losers who didn't go to college, or even graduate highschool. It's considered work for the "lower class".

It's all about college and desk jobs nowadays.

Bull$hit if you ask me...


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## Zenerohmma (Oct 24, 2008)

Do yourself and the shop that you work for a favor and send him back to the hall. Let the NJATC discipline him. Sooner or later he will have to clean up his act or be kicked out.


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## Panic661 (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm a first year apprentice... was one of those who got in at 18, actually a day before I turned 19.. but I was never one of those "I had to stop smoking pot to get this job" 

Younger people, my age, don't see "career" all they see is "paycheck" and they don't like to take things very seriously.. Not showing up to class, being late, disappearing on the jobsite for a halfhour at a time, backtalking journeymen, ect.. 

I've had a few incident where I had to miss work, it was understandable, I had a few days where I couldn't work the 14 hour day, understandable.. But never do I take things for granted and decided my JW doesn't know what hes talking about, or just pop in late for my class that I'm not really paying for..

Hey I got into the trade at 17, I had graduated highschool already, labor laws didn't necessarily apply anymore due to me having my diploma, and I didn't know anything about it. I learned, I listened, and I watched..and when the boss would let me work on things, I learned that way as well.. 

I'm 19 now, 20 next month coming up on my second year, I'll say it, its pathetic that so many people my age don't take things seriously.. just go out everynight and party and blow their paycheck, they'll figure it out later.. 

Especially with how the economy is plopping at this moment..


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## Mach (Dec 17, 2007)

brian john said:


> I woke up shaved, showered and ate hit the road when I noticed the truck clock had 2:30 AM, 4.5 hours to kill, better than late.


man that happened to me before. But not that bad.. 

Whats leadership? To me leadership is to lead by example not complain. Who hired these guys? It is what it is. either complain or lead. Case you haven't noticed but you meet/work with all kinds of people in life it's how you deal with them that matters.


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## ACB (Oct 21, 2008)

QUOTE "I think more kids need fathers that are real men. I absolutely cannot stand when I go to a house and the MAN OF THE HOUSE is there and he has myself and another trade fixing things. Damnit nobody comes to my house and fixes anything I do it all. I just don't get these people are they too good to do blue collar work and therefor they don't teach their kids any mechanical skills?"


I have found an attitude of superiority by some folks that DON"T get their hands "DIRTY" you see to most of them we are like lower class because we do manual labour, we get our hands dirty, we're lowly construction workers to them, barely a step above a ditch digger or garbage man. and most also think we get paid far to much for doing such meanial tasks.(that they have not a single clue how to do)

And of course I have to laugh my a$$ off at these idiots, ya I'll come fix your petty little problems and take home a nice little chunk of "your" paycheck with me every time you call.

The way I look at it if it was not for guys like us and all the other trades those idiots would still be living in caves starving to death waiting for someone skilled enough to light a fire to cook the animal that someone else obviously was skilled enough to catch kill and butcher for them. and now here comes their kids wanting everything for nothing


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## Benny (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm also a young apprentice 20 when I started, and 21 now. I take the trade seriously. I went to tech. school for two years then right before graduation I got my power limited lic. Did some low voltage work for a while then was accepted into the apprenticeship... I agree that there are a lot of lazy kids now a days. My parents made me work since I was 15! I also have had maybe two beers my whole life after 21, and don't think I have ever been too a party..... just to let you guys know that there are a few that still appreciate a quality career! Ben


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## Megawatts (Jan 12, 2009)

*Same thing*



ce2two said:


> On the street at 17 ,told i would never make it ,hooked up with a electrical contractor ,remember non unoin shop ,worked 6 days a week ,went to school for electrical /electronics/H.V.A.C,plumbing ,remember i was told i would not make it !Now that's called being assertive and busting your tail......how bad do want to learn ,you can do it if u try??????????/ Never say i can't do something........:jester::thumbsup:


When I was in Vo-tech durning Hi-School. A punk ass kid told me, 'Yu'll never be an electrician." Always putting me down. Till one day when the co. I worked for got a service call. It was to trouble shoot 3 and 4 way switch. So, I want to the house. And behold the punk ass. He didn't remember me, but he goes on to say, "I hooked up cause I had training, but can't understand why it's not working". I ripp the lights and boxes apart. I thinking to myself, " So, you don't think I'll be an electrician, huh?" I find the promblem. The 4 way is the X type. Switch the travlers and it worked. I gave the bill and he paid. I told him, "Don't you remember me from Vo-Tech?" So I told him my name and he remembered. Then I told him, " You wired it wrong. And I guess since you did it wrong, you'll never be an electrician since I fixed it." 

And this is what he does. Collects Welfare and drinks.


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## olduser55 (Jan 16, 2009)

Posted by alcoelectric.

"While I tried trusting them on a residential rough stage wiring in a secluded area, I found that they spent countless hours ramming rx staples in rows up in the rafters, scribbling artwork with a marker on the above side of the trusses and charged me for full day production."

Why are apprentices working without a JW? Maybe if they were being supervised like they are supposed to be the trade would have better apprentices.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ACB said:


> QUOTE "I think more kids need fathers that are real men. I absolutely cannot stand when I go to a house and the MAN OF THE HOUSE is there and he has myself and another trade fixing things.
> And of course I have to laugh my a$$ off at these idiots, ya I'll come fix your petty little problems and take home a nice little chunk of "your" paycheck with me every time you call.


I went to a house and the "HOT" wife was giving me jobs to do and complaining (bitching and running him down) about how worthless her husband was could not even change a light bulb.....The guy was a surgeon, I think he earned his right to hire others PROTECT THOSE HANDS. 

I also pray more HOs know nothing it is better for the trade in general.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

I've had a lot of problems with office types being totally disrespectful of tradespeople, and I have also met a lot of them that are envious of the job that we do and the money we get paid to do it! I'm very proud of my trade, don't think there is anything else I would rather do!:thumbup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

brian john said:


> The guy was a surgeon, I think he earned his right to hire others PROTECT THOSE HANDS.


I saw a how on TV a while back that had some sort of surgeon that took most of the fingers off his hand while doing a project on his table saw. Then was brought to his own hospital to have his doctors work on it.


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## ACB (Oct 21, 2008)

My hands to me are just as important as a suergeon's hands to him, cause if mine become nonfunctional or nonexistant I would be f***ed as well. No disrespect to that occupation or the intellegent and highly skilled people in it. but any one of us would personally be worse off at such a loss than any one of them as they rely more on their mind and their feild can still utilize them for that in some other area,,,,, us,,, we would just be f***ed

my previous comment that was quoted was based more on the average in sociaty where they think they are better than us cause we do manual labour and get our hands dirty so they can live in comfort, around here its office workers and school teachers that seem to have the superiority complex, I know it bugged the crap out of one that I did some work for, you could telll her and his attidues by the way they talked to you, they were extremely saticfied with my professionalism and the quality of my work, they openly admitted to that, as they expected the worse to happen in their presious home, a couple weeks later I bumped into her at the local video store and she seemed a little surprised to see me and my GF all dressed up as we had just came back from a nice dinner out and a live theater performance as we looked upper class she talked breifly mostly commenting on the work and how nice I looked cleaned up, as we were leaving the store at the same time, but suddenly got quiet when I deactivated the alarm on my Cadi parked 2 cars over from her toyota. I bumped into both of them about a week later (small town) and they walked passed me like I didn't exist. I later heard they had made a comment to someone I know that I make to much money, that person said that they told them I work as much hours a week as both of them put together, thats why I can afford a few luxuries, aperently that shut them up but they still thought I made to much money. These are the types here that discourage their children from a carreer like ours, and don't let them learn mechanical skills.... Way back when I was in highschool there were kids who's parents controled the classes they took and would not let them take a shop class commonly stating theres no future in it.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

we had one kid, 18 years old, we were going out of town for a few days when we told him what was planned he says i dont know ill have to ask my mom! 

as for me i started working when i was 12, my dad built levys and he would get me and a couple friends the job of seeding them and spreading straw. i put up hay, swept floors for a local contractor, cut grass, shoveled driveways, whatever i could do to make a buck.

i just dont understand these kids that would rather sit on their a$$ and play playstation all day.

i try to teach my kids nothing is free and you have to work for anything you want. if they want something sure but you have to work for it.


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## [email protected] (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm sorry this is all funny to me I'm 23 I can work hard but I don't I'm in my 1st year and I work maintenance all I do is drink coffee and change the odd light I love this trade oh and I'm payed 2 times to much but ill not tell them that.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I'm sorry this is all funny to me I'm 23 I can work hard but I don't I'm in my 1st year and I work maintenance all I do is drink coffee and change the odd light I love this trade oh and I'm payed 2 times to much but ill not tell them that.


 And if you stick with this job you'll never be an electrician all you'll ever be is a bulb changer a job that needs to be completed but a bore fest for me.


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## ACB (Oct 21, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I'm sorry this is all funny to me I'm 23 I can work hard but I don't I'm in my 1st year and I work maintenance all I do is drink coffee and change the odd light I love this trade oh and I'm payed 2 times to much but ill not tell them that.


I sincerely hope you don't plan on doing your entire aprentiship like that,,,, for your own benifit,,,, cause you won't learn what you truely need to be able to do work at a regular company.
I had the misfortune of working with a journeyman who aprenticed at the west edmonton mall in maintainance there, he moved to this area and started in construction and had to start learnig all over again, took him a couple years and getting fired from 2 places to get up to the same leval as about a 4th year aprentice, he regretted serving his aprenticeship that way, was nice and easy he said but very very embarassing to be put on a construction job and not know how to do even the easy stuff at a journeyman's leval.


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## Melissa809 (Aug 28, 2008)

AND...he will look like a complete JACKASS when he can't wire up a 3 way switch...or bend a rolled saddle using the pythagorean theorum!!!!!...or when his female partner shows him up!!!....haha


I truly believe that today's kids would have benefited from a few spankings in their childhood....and all you non-spankers..don't go and get all OPRAH on me!!!!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

A good apprenticeship will cover many aspects of the trade to allow an electrician t be well rounded. Light bulb changing should take 2 days of that training.

The poster is not doing himself any FAVORS and will either be stuck in a rut or bask in doing nothing the rest of his career. He seems to favor basking in doing nothing and most likely would not make it in the "FIELD".


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Melissa809 said:


> I truly believe that today's kids would have benefited from a few spankings in their childhood....and all you non-spankers..don't go and get all OPRAH on me!!!!


The hell?

What does spanking have to do with anything?


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

calimurray said:


> we have this 19 yr old apprentice who is as dumb as a box of rocks. I told the boss he's not picking things up. The kid can't read a tape measure, send him to the truck to get something you'll kick yourself saying I should of went myself,I told him to put wire nuts on the wires in this box he spliced the red and the white together and used one wire nut. And blew the circuit.
> 
> The boss told him to take down 2 coach lights that needed to be relocated he cut the fixture wire out and didn't pull the wires out of the box.
> 
> ...


i had a helper like that a few years ago. i had him run 2 cat 5's 50 feet on the second floor of a house. he was up there for half a day, went to the bathroom about 3 or 4 times and just sat there and texted. i told him to put his phone in the truck and he wouldnt listen. i yelled at him and said quite a few swears. few days later after he sits down on the job instead of picking a broom up and sweeping he was fired. he was the worst helper i ever had. on the other hand i have helpers that want to learn and suceed in this industry.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

brian john said:


> A good apprenticeship will cover many aspects of the trade to allow an electrician t be well rounded. Light bulb changing should take 2 days of that training.
> 
> The poster is doing himself any FAVORS and will either be stuck in a rut or bask in doing nothing the rest of his career. He seems to favor basking in doing nothing and most likely would not make it in the "FIELD".


He didnt specifically mention that he actually is in an apprenticeship, just his 1st year "in the trade".

Either way, his attitude is horrible and wont get him very far in life.


This is a professional forum, and his attitude is not professional by any means.


~Matt


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> The hell?
> 
> What does spanking have to do with anything?


I agree I say beat those little tykes hard and often:no:


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## gokingsgo888 (Jan 6, 2009)

Very interesting to read all these comments. I'm 22, I have a 4 year college degree (advertising) and I would like nothing more than to become an apprentice. My dad is a JW and wanted me to go to college and have a clean desk job. So I did. I HATE the jobs I've been getting. I'm either trying to sell something to someone or I'm stuck behind a computer all day putting together spreadsheets. I went to work with my dad once and I really liked what he was doing. Sure its physical and sometimes dirty, but I can't imagine a better feeling than saying "I know how to do something important. Something that most other people don't know how to do. I'm useful because of my ability to do something with my mind and my hands, not because of my ability to talk someone out of their money." Anyone my age can make cold calls and work on a computer. This is why recent college grads don't make sh*t! Cause there are 10 other liberal arts degrees ready to take their place for 28K a year, no benefits, no job security, etc.

So, to wrap up my rant, I'm taking the apprenticeship test at the end of Feb. I've always had strong work ethic, but if my heart isn't in it, it's useless. Like I said, I can't stand office jobs. I really want this career because it is an honest job (unlike sales!) and it teaches you rare skills. I'm disgusted by the stories of these lazy apprentices. I just hope I get the chance to show my work ethic and eagerness to learn.


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## [email protected] (Jan 19, 2009)

Really I do get to drink a lot of coffee and don't have to do much many of the day but i also look after a lot of CNC mills and lasers from mazak its a fab shop for "Case New Holland" I like it do to everyday is not the same old house same floor plane as the last floor you guys are right ill never be fast or good at getting a home done in 2 days or a aparment floor done in a week or less or know the code by my heart but I get to trouble shot everyday and that I like and get to take old motors apart rewind them once in a blue moon and see some of the new fab equment that gets made every year oh and the motor controls and PLCs are fun to me to see what is not working and what happen that made it brake.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> I agree I say beat those little tykes hard and often:no:


I suppose if I was beaten more as a child I'd be a journeyman before the end of my 1st year.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I suppose if I was beaten more as a child I'd be a journeyman before the end of my 1st year.


You sure wouldn't respond that way to your elders!  
Just kidding. And I'm pretty sure Brian was too


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## kevgeez (Jun 2, 2009)

alcoelectrical said:


> Since this subject had opened regarding 'Help', I'll attempt to share all that I remember concerning my experiences with apprentices & unlicensed journeymen.
> 
> 
> An apprentice using a customer's brand new bath tub to throw up this nasty red colored, nose-hair curling, stomach convulsing mess that the employee didn't clean and then denied doing when the only worker on site in a week.
> ...


:laughing:
****in classic.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

If you can't size up a new guy, apprentice or green helper by morning break the first day they show up it's on you. After all, your the one who supposed to know what to do, and if you leave an inexperienced man, or boy to think for one second then it's your fault when they screw up or don't know something.If your incapable of teaching and having patience with goofball kids then do it yourself.I expect every kid to be a knuckle head. And every once in a while a good one comes along.


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## Buddha In Babylon (Mar 23, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Really I do get to drink a lot of coffee and don't have to do much many of the day but i also look after a lot of CNC mills and lasers from mazak its a fab shop for "Case New Holland" I like it do to everyday is not the same old house same floor plane as the last floor you guys are right ill never be fast or good at getting a home done in 2 days or a aparment floor done in a week or less or know the code by my heart but I get to trouble shot everyday and that I like and get to take old motors apart rewind them once in a blue moon and see some of the new fab equment that gets made every year oh and the motor controls and PLCs are fun to me to see what is not working and what happen that made it brake.


I am disgusted with you and i hope you get fired.

In my time i aspire to be the bane of my generations lack of motivation. I will be the hammer that destroys all chance for any slackers in my peer group to succeed unless they have as much drive, will, spirit, motivation, and determination as I. I have met a couple guys my age (25) who can really work, and i don't mean just bust their knuckles, i mean THINK, and understand, and do things efficiently and anticipate their JW's next move or need, like i do. And they i call friends. Any young man my age or abouts that doesn't get it, should not be allowed to be in this trade period. It's far too dangerous for stupid jackasses with no respect or awareness to be calling themselves electricians. GOD!!!! This is a topic close to my heart because i go to work every damn day. I am never late. I have every tool i need(because i don't waste my money on weed, iphones, and new shoes) i work hard, i am respectful, professional, clean and motivated far beyond measure. It makes me sick to see some of the apprentices i go to school with. The bottom line is some of these cats just don't get it and those same jokers are the bottom of society and don't deserve to be associated with skilled labor.


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

Pliney the Elder complained about how lazy and useless the next generation was. That was 3,000 years ago in ancient Greece.Every generation thinks the next does not measure up. It's a symptom of getting old. I do think however that we are producing a nation of Nancy boys who worry about thier feelings and whose sole idea of adventure is a video game. I blame it on the same thinking/people who have brought us TR receptacles and AFCI's!F numbnut dogooders!


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

iaov said:


> Pliney the Elder complained about how lazy and useless the next generation was. That was 3,000 years ago in ancient Greece.Every generation thinks the next does not measure up. It's a symptom of getting old. I do think however that we are producing a nation of Nancy boys who worry about thier feelings and whose sole idea of adventure is a video game. I blame it on the same thinking/people who have brought us TR receptacles and AFCI's!F numbnut dogooders!



I'm still a young buck, but AMEN brother!!!:thumbsup:


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm not real worried about this generation as some of them do know how to rock and roll!!:thumbsup:


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## Shaffer87 (Feb 11, 2009)

Quit hiring ******* if you want good apprentices. They are worthless and have no taste. They are easy to spot though so decypering them should be no problem...

At our shop I would say 1 out of 5 green new hires is actually worth teaching. 

As for this generation sucking, I would disagree. There are many young apprentices at my shop that are worthy.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Shaffer87 said:


> At our shop I would say 1 out of 5 green new hires is actually worth teaching.
> 
> As for this generation sucking, I would disagree. There are many young apprentices at my shop that are worthy.


And in the 70's the ratios were the same I agree many good and some not so good.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Shaffer87 said:


> As for this generation sucking, I would disagree. There are many young apprentices at my shop that are worthy.


Like anything, you will find some good and some not worth a crap. My experiance tells me that now days you find ALOT more that are not worth a crap then you did back in the good ole days :whistling2:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

You old men complain too much.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Buddha In Babylon said:


> I am disgusted with you and i hope you get fired.
> 
> In my time i aspire to be the bane of my generations lack of motivation. I will be the hammer that destroys all chance for any slackers in my peer group to succeed unless they have as much drive, will, spirit, motivation, and determination as I. I have met a couple guys my age (25) who can really work, and i don't mean just bust their knuckles, i mean THINK, and understand, and do things efficiently and anticipate their JW's next move or need, like i do. And they i call friends. Any young man my age or abouts that doesn't get it, should not be allowed to be in this trade period. It's far too dangerous for stupid jackasses with no respect or awareness to be calling themselves electricians. GOD!!!! This is a topic close to my heart because i go to work every damn day. I am never late. I have every tool i need(because i don't waste my money on weed, iphones, and new shoes) i work hard, i am respectful, professional, clean and motivated far beyond measure. It makes me sick to see some of the apprentices i go to school with. The bottom line is some of these cats just don't get it and those same jokers are the bottom of society and don't deserve to be associated with skilled labor.


I like your attutude Buddha! You sound like like the one in a million. The needle in the haystack. The diamond in the rough. You get my point. It's refreshing to hear that there are a few young guys who don't fit the common mold of the majority youth that I call generation slacker. I can't stand these young punks that text all damn day. What happened to dialing a number and using your mouth to actually communicate with another person? Anyway with your excellent attutude you're sure to have a great career and you're the type that should never be out of work and I'm sure you won't.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Shaffer87 said:


> Quit hiring ******* if you want good apprentices.


 
That's pretty damn funny! But I think it is pretty true as far as stereotypes go, even though I used to be one of those *******! But I wasn't the kind that let my pants sag down to my knees. I was called a ****** simply for listening to rap or hip hop music. I didn't try to be or talk any certain way. I was just myself. :thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Shaffer87 said:


> Quit hiring ******* if you want good apprentices.


 
That's funny! I used to get called a ****** every so often by people. But I wasn't the kind that would make my parents embarassed to take me out in public. You know the ones with the pants sagging down to their knees. That wasn't me. I simply liked rap and hip hop music. It was my favorite. And to be honest it still is my favorite. I still listen to it and I'm 34. But most artists today suck big time compared to the ones of old. Old school hop hop is where it's at! :thumbsup:


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## Shaffer87 (Feb 11, 2009)

Rap is dead. They have gone too far from the source. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Hey "Darth," I think you might be losing your mind tonight. You just double posted.


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## Buddha In Babylon (Mar 23, 2009)

thank you friend for your kind words. All i can say is that i was taught to work hard, and have had to work hard for every damn thing in my life that is good. Fortune has graced my path but few times and when it has, i was always grateful. 
I am not exceptional. There is nothing in my genetic makeup that differs from the slackjaws that text and look up **** on their iphones all day. The ONLY difference is that i am fascinated by electricity. Tesla is my electrical/spiritual ancestor. Lightning is my inspiration to ponder the workings of theory. Brainwaves and spiritual/psychic frequencies are my playground. I see a direct correlation with life force when i see a receptacle. My motivation is the only difference.
Anyhow...I will say it again. The meaning of the word apprentice has been forgotten and my sole purpose in life for the next 3.5 years is to restore the essence of a master/apprentice path. 
Nature looks for the one. The one that will adapt and survive the tumultuous conditions of existence. That same one evolves and becomes more. Those that do not learn or change perish and fade into obscurity and obsolesence.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Hey "Darth," I think you might be losing your mind tonight. You just double posted.


yeah my mistake.


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## Buddha In Babylon (Mar 23, 2009)

BTW KRSone is the shiznit.
also plipmode is the squidawd.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

i think i'm gonna puke


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Buddha In Babylon said:


> I see a direct correlation with life force when i see a receptacle.


You're whack.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Buddha In Babylon said:


> BTW KRSone is the shiznit.
> also plipmode is the squidawd.


Hahahaha. You mean flipmode.


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

Buddha In Babylon said:


> thank you friend for your kind words. All i can say is that i was taught to work hard, and have had to work hard for every damn thing in my life that is good. Fortune has graced my path but few times and when it has, i was always grateful.
> I am not exceptional. There is nothing in my genetic makeup that differs from the slackjaws that text and look up **** on their iphones all day. The ONLY difference is that i am fascinated by electricity. Tesla is my electrical/spiritual ancestor. Lightning is my inspiration to ponder the workings of theory. Brainwaves and spiritual/psychic frequencies are my playground. I see a direct correlation with life force when i see a receptacle. My motivation is the only difference.
> Anyhow...I will say it again. The meaning of the word apprentice has been forgotten and my sole purpose in life for the next 3.5 years is to restore the essence of a master/apprentice path.
> Nature looks for the one. The one that will adapt and survive the tumultuous conditions of existence. That same one evolves and becomes more. Those that do not learn or change perish and fade into obscurity and obsolesence.




The force is strong in this one.


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## fraydo (Mar 30, 2009)

Whatever with this hip hop stuff what about punk?

Changed careers after 15 years in sales. Helped me appreciate the trade more than if i had started at 18. I could only spew BS for so long. Most of these kids just need a good dose of reality, i know i did. Partied extra hard until four years ago-didn't want to chance a serious accident when hung over. Was never proud to be a salesman but am proud to be an electrician


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

If you're a young punk who thinks old guys all we do is complain about the young guys.... do me a favor... and the country a favor... go enlist. 

Army, Navy, Marines, whichever... go become a man, learn the trade, and earn the respect of your countrymen. 

Uncle Sam Loves You!


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## fraydo (Mar 30, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> If you're a young punk who thinks old guys all we do is complain about the young guys.... do me a favor... and the country a favor... go enlist.
> 
> Army, Navy, Marines, whichever... go become a man, learn the trade, and earn the respect of your countrymen.
> 
> Uncle Sam Loves You!


What about theAir Force? My brother in law was a plumber in the Air Force


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## kawaikfx400 (Jul 14, 2008)

*apprentices*

Im 23 and I'm laid off right now and it sucks, I've done 3 years for 50+ hour weeks and this sitting around stuff is awful. I just enjoy getting up early and going to work. I work for two different companies and both have no work. Im most certainly will not work for some of these big companies, you'll never learn anything its the small companies thats where its at. It all has to do with how some guys are brought up. I didnt have anything when i was younger so working got me what i wanted ,truck,atv,etc. But when you get everything handed to you theres no drive there to go to work. You know someone will bail you out if you get in fianicial trouble,mommy and daddy. I have a few friends like that and it pisses me off.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

kawaikfx400 said:


> Im 23 and I'm laid off right now and it sucks, I've done 3 years for 50+ hour weeks and this sitting around stuff is awful. I just enjoy getting up early and going to work. I work for two different companies and both have no work. I'm most certainly will not work for some of these big companies, you'll never learn anything its the small companies that's where its at. It all has to do with how some guys are brought up. I didn't have anything when i was younger so working got me what i wanted ,truck,atv,etc. But when you get everything handed to you there's no drive there to go to work. You know someone will bail you out if you get in financial trouble,mommy and daddy. I have a few friends like that and it pisses me off.


 
I feel for you it is tough being out of work and can become depressing. I worked for some of the big boys and if you show you have some intuition they will let you take the lead. 

At this point if I were you I'd take any thing that comes by in the trade, and some that is not trade related to pay bills.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

Is it possible that not only are these kids failing, but the union that sends them out is also?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I don't know why you guys are complaining about the young guys when it was the old men that were more involved with our nation's financial meltdown.

Somebody must've been shakin' their heads watchin' you guys take the helm.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I don't know why you guys are complaining about the young guys when it was the old men that were more involved with our nation's financial meltdown.
> 
> Somebody must've been shakin' their heads watchin' you guys take the helm.


Because it is human nature.

You know an old young thing. So either you will learn from this and remember this or in 25 years you will be bitching about those young apprentices.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> Because it is human nature.
> 
> You know an old young thing. So either you will learn from this and remember this or in 25 years you will be bitching about those young apprentices.


I'm looking forward to it. :thumbsup:


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I don't know why you guys are complaining about the young guys when it was the old men that were more involved with our nation's financial meltdown.
> 
> Somebody must've been shakin' their heads watchin' you guys take the helm.



Good one! I am one of those old men, and I am still shakin' my head about our financial situation.:blink:


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## Mastertorturer (Jan 28, 2009)

JRent said:


> The problem is that these young kids dont want to be elctricians, they just work for the paycheck. Unlike them I want this trade to be my carreer for life therefore I try to learn as much as I can.


Exactly! 

The cause in my opinion is the skilled trades shortage. In Ontaro the province is promoting trades like crazy. There is a $1000 incentive grant for completing 1st and 2nd terms ($2000 in total). 0% loans to buy tools. There are tax breaks for pre-apprenticeship tuitions. If that wasn't enough these pre-apprenticeship courses work with the government to subsidize an apprentice wage. They cover HALF the wage.

I broke into the trade through a pre-app. course. Started at $12 an hour. Can you believe my employer was only paying $6 an hour to test a well trained employee for 3 months?! So all these chucklehead burn-outs are being funneled into this trade. 

There is no reason to suffer even a little BS from apprentices or helpers. Once you let them get away with something they will prey on your kindness. 

This trade isn't like selling sneakers in the mall. It's about intelligence, pride and quality service.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> I don't know why you guys are complaining about the young guys when it was the old men that were more involved with our nation's financial meltdown.
> 
> Somebody must've been shakin' their heads watchin' you guys take the helm.


Keep in mind that it takes a lifetime to get the power to *really* screw things up. Young people can only watch and say never trust anyone over 30. I said the same thing watching Richard Nixon do a song n dance over Watergate. Then there was Bill Clinton who.. *Didn't have sex with that woman.. :laughing:*


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Mastertorturer said:


> Exactly!
> 
> The cause in my opinion is the skilled trades shortage. In Ontaro the province is promoting trades like crazy. There is a $1000 incentive grant for completing 1st and 2nd terms ($2000 in total). 0% loans to buy tools. There are tax breaks for pre-apprenticeship tuitions. If that wasn't enough these pre-apprenticeship courses work with the government to subsidize an apprentice wage. They cover HALF the wage.
> 
> ...




Skilled Tradesman shortage? Right.. Need an Electrician in Toronto? Call the hall they can send ya a thousand or two..

Whats there is in Ontario is a shortage of CHEAP skilled tradesmen.

As for the Pre Apprentices .. Seems to me there should be no one on a jobsite that is not registered in their trade. The pre apprentice is just easy to get rid of cheap labor. Sure most don't ever get a contract.


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## Thomps (Nov 27, 2008)

T.O. Sparky - but there is more to the province than just Toronto. 

whether some want to face it or not, Ontario will face a shrinking skilled labour pool over the next 6-7 years. It's simply down to the fact that there are more people leaving the trade than there are people getting into it. As Master Tortourer pointed out, the province has been pushing Skilled trades as a career choice for the better part of five years. Everything from incentive programs to get apprentices to complete the programs, to marketing to seondary school boards through OYAP & CO-OP programs. 

Because of the slow down in property development, we have seen a decrease in job applications, but over the past 2-3 years, we have been flooded with applications from post secondary school grads looking to get into the trade. We have to tell them that we aren't in a position to offer new apprenticeship opportunities. It's hard to accept because they are being told by everyone from parents to teachers to adverts they see on T.V. that apprenticeships are the place to go, and then they are being held up at the door, becuase employers can't employ them.


I would disagrre with Master Tortourer on one issue though. when he claimed that the trade in Ontario is being flooded with chuckleheads and burnouts, I would suggest that it is completely the opposite. As an employer, I am not going to "waste" an apprenticeship position on someone who I feel isn't going to benefit the company or make the most of the opportunity when I know that I may not see another opening for 6 months to a year.


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## rfortuna25 (Apr 23, 2009)

kawaikfx400 said:


> im 23 and work as hard as i possibly can 50-60 hour weeks every week and go to school and learn as much as i can because i came from nothing and want to be successful, unlike these spoiled ones that dont have money issues. i have things because ive earned em, if ya dont have to earn em you'll never have a good work ethic.


 
F*king A dude... I agree 100000000000000%... Some people just got mom and dad to do sh!t for them... I myself been working since I was 5 helping my dad at a restaurant/bar we used to own in Dominican Republic serving drinks, moping floors, cleaning dishes you name it I've done it... My father used to tell me "I will one day die and you need to know all the business from the ground up, And I will not ask you to do something I would not do myself so I want you to do everything here so when you take over you will never ask an employee to do something for you that you havent done" Needless to say when I turned 13 my father turned the business over to me and he was only upstairs overseeing stuff... I would go to school in the morning and work all afternoon and night til 1-2 am and wake up the next day at 7am and do the same.... I think that some kids just need to wake up smell the flowers and work as much as they can to get real life experience, and dads or moms out there PLEASE dont spoil your kids by putting them in a bubble.... Trust me that bubble will one day blow up right in their face and they'll not know what to do


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

rfortuna25 said:


> I would go to school in the morning and work all afternoon and night til 1-2 am and wake up the next day at 7am and do the same....



Can you say: "holy child slave labor Batman!" :no:


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

steelersman said:


> Can you say: "holy child slave labor Batman!" :no:


If a certain team played that hard...














ok ok. see you in December.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Even though my Steelers lost and the Ravens won yesterday, I can still take solace in the fact that the Jets put a whooping on those punk ass Patriots. God Bill Bellicheat is such a pompous ass punk.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

steelersman said:


> God Bill Bellicheat is such a pompous ass punk.


He is such a sore loser and has no class at all.. never has.. never will

Even with the cameras on him, he can't give a decent hand shake after his team got their ass kicked :no:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> He is such a sore loser and has no class at all.. never has.. never will
> 
> Even with the cameras on him, he can't give a decent hand shake after his team got their ass kicked :no:


I'll never forget a game I saw where his Patriots beat the Colts and he totally snubbed Tony Dungy. Didn't even give him a half assed shake. I mean how the hell could you not like Tony Dungy. Dungy is one of the nicest and classiest coaches out there, if not the nicest and classiest. Unbelievable. I wish Hell was a real place, cause Bill Bellicheat would definitely go there.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I knew he had a dark side when he snubbed the Jets and signed with the Patriots

Again... no class the way he did it


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I like the Steelers, but come on, man to bad mouth the Pats is a little ridiculous. Mike Tomlin is the best high-fiver in the league. He's not even in the same class as Belichick.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm bad mouthing the Pats coach, more than the team. Tomlin is the youngest coach to ever win the big game. Bellicheat is a pompous ass. Plain and simple. Classless. No comparison to Tomlin.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Lots of qualified apprentices on the market these days.....

and journeymen.....

and a few masters as well.....

I'm hoping to lock up a couple crews of good guys before it all turns around.


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## lynx82 (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm only 27 and one thing I've noticed even though it sounds stupid is that in the winter when it snows a lot, no kids are knocking on your door asking to shovel snow. When I was a kid that snow was white gold, it was like hitting the lottery if we got overe 8-10 inches. We'd be out all day. I have to go and shovel my mothers house and a family friends house everytime it snows now on top of my house even though I'd be glad to give some kids a few bucks to do it. When I was 12-13 me and my friends covered all four seasons. I used to walk around the neighborhod with a lawnmower knocking on doors, rakes in the fall, shoveling snow in winter etc.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

lynx82 said:


> I'm only 27 and one thing I've noticed even though it sounds stupid is that in the winter when it snows a lot, no kids are knocking on your door asking to shovel snow. When I was a kid that snow was white gold, it was like hitting the lottery if we got overe 8-10 inches. We'd be out all day. I have to go and shovel my mothers house and a family friends house everytime it snows now on top of my house even though I'd be glad to give some kids a few bucks to do it. When I was 12-13 me and my friends covered all four seasons. I used to walk around the neighborhod with a lawnmower knocking on doors, rakes in the fall, shoveling snow in winter etc.


 Same here. I will never forget the first time I made 100 bucks shoveling snow alllllllllllllllllllll day. I kept counting it over and over, laid it out on the floor, rolled in up in a wad and stuck it in my pocket and took a sip of apple juice from a highball glass with ice and pretended I was JR Ewing, the richest man alive.......Now I spend 100 bucks to fill up my van...


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Same here. I will never forget the first time I made 100 bucks shoveling snow alllllllllllllllllllll day. I kept counting it over and over, laid it out on the floor, rolled in up in a wad and stuck it in my pocket and took a sip of apple juice from a highball glass with ice and pretended I was JR Ewing, the richest man alive.......Now I spend 100 bucks to fill up my van...


 
Guess I'm jealous, I never made $100 shoveling snow as a kid, we used to just run a brontosaurus up and down the driveway to compact the snow.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

In highschool, I could make 20 dollars last all week.


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## rfortuna25 (Apr 23, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> It's hard to come by farms in Philadelphia, or New Orleans...or any major city.
> 
> In any case, I'm happy there are so many idiots, that means there's a helluva lot less competition for me.


 
I'm glad too... If there are that many idiots man I think we'll be ok, as long as we keep our heads out of our butts lol


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## rfortuna25 (Apr 23, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Can you say: "holy child slave labor Batman!" :no:


 
Actually at the time I looked at it like that but nowdays I am glad my dad was that though it thought me to be a man and earn my keep from a very early age


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

I can understand that. It just seems so medievil.


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## rfortuna25 (Apr 23, 2009)

I myself didnt ever do any snow as a kid (no snow in the caribbean)... But I used to get 50 pesos for cleaning my dad's, and my neighbors pool which at the time I think would had been like 5 US dollars... It used to buy me 2 movie tickets, a popcorn, a coke and a ride on the ferry wheel... That was some good times.... Nowdays $50.00 is like 1.5 US dollars... Good for nothing


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## Sguthrie (Sep 29, 2009)

JacksonburgFarmer said:


> I have hired another apprentice, yesterday was his third day. I dont think this is gonna work...The BOY dont get it...Yesterday, he had to go home at 1:30 to, no ****, he said "clean his room":laughing: WTF??? Today he could come in untill 9 am because he had to watch his niece. :001_huh:
> 
> SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO PEOPLE THESE DAYS???
> 
> ...


This is incredibly frustrating to me. I am currently in my application process awaiting my interview. I have an extremely strong desire to become an electrician, and hearing stories about all these kids that don't care about their job makes me mad. I'm gonna work my ass off when I get in to the apprenticeship!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Sguthrie said:


> This is incredibly frustrating to me. I am currently in my application process awaiting my interview. I have an extremely strong desire to become an electrician, and hearing stories about all these kids that don't care about their job makes me mad. I'm gonna work my ass off when I get in to the apprenticeship!


 Thats a great attitude to have. You will go far in this trade. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

This thread is going to need sticky status...3500+ hits.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> This thread is going to need sticky status...3500+ hits.


 What is sticky status?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

william1978 said:


> What is sticky status?


That's when someone dumps a whole bucket of rubber cement on the server.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> That's when someone dumps a whole bucket of rubber cement on the server.


 Someone is trying to be a comedian today.:whistling2::laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> This thread is going to need sticky status...3500+ hits.


 It's over 6500 hits.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

How can you tell the number of hits this thread has had?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

steelersman said:


> How can you tell the number of hits this thread has had?


 It is under (Views).


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

I had to look


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

william1978 said:


> It is under (Views).


Okay. I guess I'm blind. I can't find "views".


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

It's next to replies on the right side of the page...


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks.


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Thanks.


No problem....:thumbup:


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

I overheard some Jw's talking about me and one of them said I was independent. The other JW my foreman agreed. Is this good? I think this means I don't have to be baby sat all the time. I don't get yelled at and only have to be shown/taught once. Think I'm doing ok. Show up, work and pay attention seems to be working well for me.


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## extrac (Sep 22, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> I thought I didn't start work until my 2nd year in...


 
That's a fact Jack !


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Shado said:


> It's next to replies on the right side of the page...



Still don't see it. I don't see replies either. I think you and William 1978 are messing with me. :laughing:


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> The hell?
> 
> What does spanking have to do with anything?


 Builds character!


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Still don't see it. I don't see replies either. I think you and William 1978 are messing with me. :laughing:


Seriously? You can't see it?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Seriously


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## slow cooker (Oct 1, 2009)

*Should i let him go or should he stay*

Boy..o..boy, glad to see you folks are sufferin similar stuff. I have had a look at this site and its a working electrical dudes dream.:thumbsup:

You guys are so knowledgable maybe you can help me with my depression. Guys I have this third year apprentice, whom I think hates me and wants me dead. He gets paid the award plus an extra 20 bucks a day. even though I drive an extra four miles a day out of my way to pick him up, I still think he hates me. Last year as, a day or two after he was having a real old fashioned jaw session with my wife, he somehow managed to electrify my step ladder and i ended up in hospital with serious brain damage. I recovered over the next few months and got back into my work when blow me down he shot me in the foot with a nail gun, causing me to fall 17 foot into an open underground trench (that should have been filled in man) goring my left shoulder with a piece of over extended rod. I really wanted to smack the asshole but i couldn't swing my left arm nor could i run after him. My wife tells me he's a nice kid. what should i do?:001_huh:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

slow cooker said:


> Boy..o..boy, glad to see you folks are sufferin similar stuff. I have had a look at this site and its a working electrical dudes dream.:thumbsup:
> 
> You guys are so knowledgable maybe you can help me with my depression. Guys I have this third year apprentice, whom I think hates me and wants me dead. He gets paid the award plus an extra 20 bucks a day. even though I drive an extra four miles a day out of my way to pick him up, I still think he hates me. Last year as, a day or two after he was having a real old fashioned jaw session with my wife, he somehow managed to electrify my step ladder and i ended up in hospital with serious brain damage. I recovered over the next few months and got back into my work when blow me down he shot me in the foot with a nail gun, causing me to fall 17 foot into an open underground trench (that should have been filled in man) goring my left shoulder with a piece of over extended rod. I really wanted to smack the asshole but i couldn't swing my left arm nor could i run after him. My wife tells me he's a nice kid. what should i do?:001_huh:


 Are you serious??
Time to let the guy go, I think.:whistling2:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

I have a hard time buying this story.


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## extrac (Sep 22, 2009)

slow cooker said:


> Boy..o..boy, glad to see you folks are sufferin similar stuff. I have had a look at this site and its a working electrical dudes dream.:thumbsup:
> 
> You guys are so knowledgable maybe you can help me with my depression. Guys I have this third year apprentice, whom I think hates me and wants me dead. He gets paid the award plus an extra 20 bucks a day. even though I drive an extra four miles a day out of my way to pick him up, I still think he hates me. Last year as, a day or two after he was having a real old fashioned jaw session with my wife, he somehow managed to electrify my step ladder and i ended up in hospital with serious brain damage. I recovered over the next few months and got back into my work when blow me down he shot me in the foot with a nail gun, causing me to fall 17 foot into an open underground trench (that should have been filled in man) goring my left shoulder with a piece of over extended rod. I really wanted to smack the asshole but i couldn't swing my left arm nor could i run after him. My wife tells me he's a nice kid. what should i do?:001_huh:


 
I Would love to here how he energized your ladder :whistling2:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

It's a bull**** story from an asshole with nothing better to do. Probably that "I'm The New Guy" idiot.

The site edited the third word in my post immediately. I mean before it even showed. Thats fast. Sorry Nathan.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

slow cooker said:


> Boy..o..boy, glad to see you folks are sufferin similar stuff. I have had a look at this site and its a working electrical dudes dream.:thumbsup:
> 
> You guys are so knowledgable maybe you can help me with my depression. Guys I have this third year apprentice, whom I think hates me and wants me dead. He gets paid the award plus an extra 20 bucks a day. even though I drive an extra four miles a day out of my way to pick him up, I still think he hates me. Last year as, a day or two after he was having a real old fashioned jaw session with my wife, he somehow managed to electrify my step ladder and i ended up in hospital with serious brain damage. I recovered over the next few months and got back into my work when blow me down he shot me in the foot with a nail gun, causing me to fall 17 foot into an open underground trench (that should have been filled in man) goring my left shoulder with a piece of over extended rod. I really wanted to smack the asshole but i couldn't swing my left arm nor could i run after him. My wife tells me he's a nice kid. what should i do?:001_huh:


 name your next child after him:laughing:


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## nickthegr81 (Feb 17, 2009)

after i started having to deal with apprentices as a foreman, i went to my old foreman and apologized whole heartedly for being an apprentice.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

nickthegr81 said:


> after i started having to deal with apprentices as a foreman, i went to my old foreman and apologized whole heartedly for being an apprentice.


 lol! Good idea.


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## slow cooker (Oct 1, 2009)

*Listen old timer*



John Valdes said:


> It's a bull**** story from an asshole with nothing better to do. Probably that "I'm The New Guy" idiot.
> 
> The site edited the third word in my post immediately. I mean before it even showed. Thats fast. Sorry Nathan.


I'm good at my gig fella, a unoin heavy:jester: came on to site in 
Albuquerque and told the gang about this site:thumbsup:, this is why you will see a few new older guys picking up this site soon, keep an eye out for one of the best spatkies atound today, he will be going under the name Micro Wave. this guy knows his stuff he also knows my goddamn ex apprentic:bangin:e.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm not going to read this whole thread but those of you that are sending apprentices out to do work unsupervised by journeyman deserve whatever you get. In WA a apprentice is not allowed to work unsupervised. If your state does allow them to work unsupervised then why aren't you paying them journeyman wages? Are they teaching themselves the trade? 

If you judge a apprentice by 3 days on the job I wouldn't want to work for you. Now the going home because you have to babysit or clean your room is grounds for termination.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> I'm not going to read this whole thread but those of you that are sending apprentices out to do work unsupervised by journeyman deserve whatever you get. In WA a apprentice is not allowed to work unsupervised. If your state does allow them to work unsupervised then why aren't you paying them journeyman wages? Are they teaching themselves the trade?
> 
> If you judge a apprentice by 3 days on the job I wouldn't want to work for you. Now the going home because you have to babysit or clean your room is grounds for termination.


You don't get it. If I ask you to bring me 100' of 1/2" EMT and you pull out your tape measure, I don't need three days.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> You don't get it. If I ask you to bring me 100' of 1/2" EMT and you pull out your tape measure, I don't need three days.


Thats funny Sh!t right there, but did you atleast teach the kid that a bundle is a 100' or just expect him to know that


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## shakey pete (Oct 2, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> I'm not going to read this whole thread but those of you that are sending apprentices out to do work unsupervised by journeyman deserve whatever you get. In WA a apprentice is not allowed to work unsupervised. If your state does allow them to work unsupervised then why aren't you paying them journeyman wages? Are they teaching themselves the trade?
> 
> If you judge a apprentice by 3 days on the job I wouldn't want to work for you. Now the going home because you have to babysit or clean your room is grounds for termination.


 mate, i was roughing in 3 storey buildings after 12 months into my 1st year.my boss was always turning up drunk and horney. goddam!! i said goddam boss, why you gotta turn up to work drunk and horney every day? don't judge a book by the cover is what he use to say. 

there's something in that for all of us sparkies......think about it dudes.:thumbsup:


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## lladnek (Oct 8, 2009)

Wow, after reading some of the posts here I can tell most electricians here are old timers. The slam on the younger generation is amazing. It's funny how everyone here blames the younger generation, but doesnt want to teach them. If someone would have told me that conduit came in 10' sticks when I first got on the job site I know it would have helped. There are a lot of basics that should be taught to first timers.

I quit the electrical field because most of the guys I worked with were drunk/stoned or on some other kind of drug while at work. Not only that, they felt they could just boss the apprentices around and treat you like a piece of ****.

Nothing more I cant stand than someone who cant show respect for someone. I quit the electrical industry and went back to computers. I could relate this field the same way. How come anyone older is an idiot? I can complete the work it takes them a month to do in 2 days. It has nothing to do with the generation, it has to do with the person.

Either you are there for a paycheck, or you are there because you take pride in what you do.

Needless to say I now make almost 2x as much as my brother in law that is an electrician... Why would the younger generation want to do manual work if they can make more behind a desk?

It's all perspective.

I am 27 btw.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

You're the man! You obviously weren't cut out for electrical work is all. There definitely is some truth to it though. It's like stereotypes. A lot of them are true, but they aren't the rule with every single person. There are some exceptions to the rule.


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## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

I quit the electrical field because most of the guys I worked with were drunk/stoned or on some other kind of drug while at work. Not only that, they felt they could just boss the apprentices around and treat you like a piece of ****.


What the hell? You live in Alaska or something?


Oh wait, you do! Sorry.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

sounds like somebody needs their binky.... :whistling2:


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