# 70s Panel Manufacturer



## sogorman (Sep 7, 2019)

Good morning, hoping someone can identify the manufacturer of my mid 70s electrical panel. All of the paper labels inside have long weathered away and the only logo that is visible has a few layers of paint on it. 


Here is a pic of the logo on the outside of the panel... any guesses? 










Thanks!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

ITE, they are gone. Some Siemens components might work, but just replace the whole panel. I'll do it for you for $6,853.


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## sogorman (Sep 7, 2019)

Thank you! $6,853 sounds like a steal!


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Oh, it is! It is!


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

It's well past its design life.

Don't treat it like a light bulb -- that is -- use it until it fails.

Fires are so messy.


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## sogorman (Sep 7, 2019)

Yea I think I am going to have to... trying to add about 13Kw AC of PV and I doubt I can find a 150A main breaker to replace the center fed panel with... guess I need to add some money to my budget for a panel swap.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sogorman said:


> Yea I think I am going to have to... trying to add about 13Kw AC of PV and I doubt I can find a 150A main breaker to replace the center fed panel with... guess I need to add some money to my budget for a panel swap.


Center feed panel? Do you mean a split-bus panel? If so, of course you can't add a 150A main breaker to it.

Just buy a new panel, why would you put a new solar installation into a 40+ year old, outdated piece of junk?


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## sogorman (Sep 7, 2019)

"Just buy a new panel, why would you put a new solar installation into a 40+ year old, outdated piece of junk?"

Not planning on it, going to swap it out!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

This is what is under all that paint.


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## sogorman (Sep 7, 2019)

joe-nwt, I am impressed with your photoshop skills! Thanks everyone!


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

FYI,
Inverse
Time
Element


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

sogorman said:


> "Just buy a new panel, why would you put a new solar installation into a 40+ year old, outdated piece of junk?"
> 
> Not planning on it, going to HAVE AN ELECTRICIAN swap it out!


fify


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

There is absolutely no way that a HO is not going to screw such work up -- usually tragically.

Get a professional -- do NOT go for the lowest bidder -- go for the dude with an outstanding rep.

The price difference -- the risk difference -- ... well... thank me later.

Most of your $$$ goes for the INSTALL -- not the gear.

In a factory, robots can be used, not so at your house.

You can't afford to have your install look like trash -- and SUBTRACT from your asset value. Yes, this happens ALL THE TIME.

The truly clueless can't quite figure this out. No-one wants non-professional work.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

sogorman said:


> joe-nwt, I am impressed with your photoshop skills! Thanks everyone!


Actually, that was a demonstration of my cut and paste skills.:biggrin:


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## FreedomRydr (Apr 25, 2020)

*'ITE' Trivia*



sogorman said:


> joe-nwt, I am impressed with your photoshop skills! Thanks everyone!


FYI: 'ITE' = 'Inverse Time Element'- The 1904 ITE innovation, was in not having to replace the fuse element after every trip. (They invented the CB!) The company who made them was Cutter Mfg in Philadelphia, but they changed the name to 'ITE' in 1928, because of the wild success of the product. I-T-E Circuit Breaker Company then became I-T-E Imperial Corp, which according to a old I-T-E records, was sold to Gould Inc. in April 1976. The company was passed around in its life, finally landing with Siemens in 1983, and the 'ITE' brand all but disappeared, sucked up in the mergers and acquisitions game we play in this capitalist world we live in. :wink:


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

@CMP will be in here any minute to tell us all that we can't use Siemens breakers in a Gould panel:vs_laugh:


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Ah yes, bumping threads... at least the information is useful.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

HackWork said:


> Center feed panel? Do you mean a split-bus panel? If so, of course you can't add a 150A main breaker to it.
> 
> Just buy a new panel, why would you put a new solar installation into a 40+ year old, outdated piece of junk?


I believe it's older than 40 years. Even when they were new, I hated them. My father was less pleasant about them. Here, they were used for contract price work, and DIY projects. Electrical wholesalers sold typically two lines. They might have Cutler Hammer, or Square D, and they would offer a cheap line such as ITE. The breaker panel & breakers are not the most expensive thing in a project. Why try to save money on the safety net of a high wire act?

Oh, find an electrician too. You can brag the rest of your life about the wisdom of making sound decisions. We spend thousands of hours learning, and will spend tens of thousands of hours learning our trade OTJ.

Assuming you as a DIYer have it all figured out might be a risky thing. A home wired by DIY electricians is a time bomb. Owners hope they can sell before an inspector notices how bad it is.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

We have tons of ITE panels around here. They are the bulk of the panel change outs we do. 

They seem to fail more than FPE. Of course FPE wasn't really designed to fail, much less work correctly either. LOL!


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## FreedomRydr (Apr 25, 2020)

*DIYers?*

"Assuming you as a DIYer have it all figured out might be a risky thing. A home wired by DIY electricians is a time bomb." (Oops, that QUOTE is a 'link', I guess)

Unless, like myself, and no doubt many others on the board, the 'DIYer' happens to be an 'Electrician', i.e., does this (or did for many years) for a living!~ :vs_laugh:

I need the posts to get to 20 so I can add images and links. Strange requirement, but not like I have anything else to do... lain:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

FreedomRydr said:


> "Assuming you as a DIYer have it all figured out might be a risky thing. A home wired by DIY electricians is a time bomb." (Oops, that QUOTE is a 'link', I guess)
> 
> Unless, like myself, and no doubt many others on the board, the 'DIYer' happens to be an 'Electrician', i.e., does this (or did for many years) for a living!~ :vs_laugh:
> 
> I need the posts to get to 20 so I can add images and links. Strange requirement, but not like I have anything else to do... lain:


Then he wouldn’t be a DIYer.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Swapping out panels isn't for the weekend wanna be electrician. Call in a pro. IBTL


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck........

A 50 year old panel, like a fifty year old car, having had zero maintenance is suspect. Asking it to do something it was never intended to do is flawed thinking. 

I've never seen a fifty year old panel that wasn't overfull. I worked on one extensively last week, classic story; A homeowner has owned a house 10 years, has renovated kitchen, and bathrooms. The 1972 panel was overfull when he bought the house. Several renovation projects he found his mailman's cousin's neighbor's nephew, who "knows how to do electric real good". 

The home inspector gave his report. Homeowner wants a fixed price sight unseen. He boils the home inspector's report to six items. 

Over several conversations, he was shopping price. I didn't imagine we would be involved beyond wasting TOO much time fact finding, and pricing.

At one point I explained "Vermont does not require you to use an electrician. The guy who mows your lawn can legally wire your house." "If you knock on 10 doors at random you will meet 5 people who consider themselves to be an electrician." "All of them work cheaper than we do, and will do a better job than the people who installed wiring since 1985 (NM-B) and 2003 (white, yellow NM-B). I'm confident you will save money knocking doors." He made it clear spending ANY money was out of the question.

I didn't hear from him several weeks, then he seemed alarmed, the closing date for the sale fast approached, when did I plan to do the work?!!!!

"Gee, I haven't yet been hired."

Ultimately, I received a copy of the home inspector's report. It was 84 pages! over 100 photographs showed electrical code violations. Unlike typical inspection reports where they might separate electrical violations, this was un sorted. Each of 84 pages included electrical issues. 

The seller stuck to his guns, he wanted his original list addressed, but "NO NEW PANEL!"

The 16 circuit panel had 17 neutral terminals. There were more than 50 conductors terminated. I felt wrong adding an equipment ground terminal assembly, removing 28 ground wires from it and still scrambling to land all the neutrals.


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

Ibtl


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Wardenclyffe said:


> Ibtl


Not gonna lie - sometimes I've lurked around on forums for other trades to pick up a few home repair ideas too.


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