# RV Pedestals



## faber307 (Jan 22, 2007)

Any of you guys ever install RV pedestals?

I've been asked to install some at our local city park.
It seems you just bring your wires up the center and bury it.
Anything I'm missing? separate post? 

Just double checking.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

That's about the long and the short of it. Square D is popularly specified, but Midwest makes better stuff for about 1/2 the price. Some systems do require a small pad, sorts like a little parking lot light foundation. These are called "pad mounted pedestals", and the regular one's are just callled pedestals. Some just bury. Some you hammer in angle iron or Kindorf scraps, and the pedestal slides down over the hammered in angle iron or Kindorf "posts". Some you just bury, and they are self supporting. Most have a "foot" option that you can bolt onto the buried portion for increased stability, which I recommend. Swing in any local campground that has some age on it, and you'll see the direct buried RV pedestals that didn't have the buried stabilizer are far from plumb. 

http://www.midwestelectric.com/catalog/pdf/MEPC-RV05.pdf

http://www.midwestelectric.com/catalog/pdf/MEPB-PR05.pdf


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

They pretty much all have double or triple lugs, so you can loop your feeder from one pedestal to the next without H-Taps or split bolts. 

Here's a detail on the mounting of the two types:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

If you're able to do any upselling on this project, they are available with a photocell that turns on a small night light for "safety" whistling2: ) while plugging and unplugging at night. These will require service from time to time, and may bring you back to visit these pedestals every once in a while. That'll give you a chance to evaluate them for additional repairs that may be required at that time, such as vandalism repair.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Just thought I should add that the direct buriel pedestals are the most "normal" in my experience. The pad mounted one's are normally utilized when the whole RV parking spot is concrete, and the pedestal is also on concrete along with the water and possible sewer connection.


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## wireman3736 (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm going to be getting involved in an RV project that was partially done by another electrician, One section was already done and I see they fed them with 3 wire but some they pulled a separate bare ground wire with the three insulated, also I don't see any ground rods at the pedestals. I have read the code but I'm still a little confused on the grounding, 1st do you have to use 4 wire, 2nd does the equipment ground have to be insulated, 3rd am I required to drive ground rods and 4th if I drive ground rods am I required to use a grounding conductor from the main panel or can I use 3 conductor then bond my ground and neutral at the pedestal per 250.32 (b) 2. Looking for opinions:001_huh:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Ground rod, yes, because it is a seperate structure. Connect the GEC to the ECG buss in the pedestal, just like you would any detached structure. 4-wire, yes, if you also have other metallic paths such as phone and water lines associated with this structure.


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## wireman3736 (Mar 3, 2007)

The water pipe is plastic and there are no phone or cable lines, I thought I may have to run 4 wire but now that I have thought about it, as long as the cord on the RV is 4 wire coming from the pedestal then I believe your right, separate structure, I posted this on that other site too :whistling2: just trying to get differing opinions, I'll have to get the inspector in there to see there work before I touch it.:thumbup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I was just checking out 551, and it looks like you need 4 wire, regardless.


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## faber307 (Jan 22, 2007)

The pedestal they're asking for is 30amp 120 with a GFI outlet.
I planned on running 2 - #2AL direct bury and 1 - #4AL for ground.

But maybe I should scrap the ground if the neutral is to be bonded separately at each pedestal? I didn't think of those being similar to outbuildings?

Our local inspector has us pull 3 conductors for outbuildings and drive rod then bond.
The book says we can pull 4 wires and not bond. But it's his call.

I guess my question is why pull the ground if you're going to bond? (regarding 551)


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Tab... if you're installing provisions for 2 or more RV's, you'll have to comply with part VI of article 551. This includes minimum pedestal amp ratings and such.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Tab Faber said:


> But maybe I should scrap the ground if the neutral is to be bonded separately at each pedestal? I didn't think of those being similar to outbuildings?


It's looking like 551.76(C) wants you to run 4-wire, and keep the grounds and neutrals seperate.


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## wireman3736 (Mar 3, 2007)

I read 551.76(D) and it says you cannot connect the grounding electrode to the neutral on the load side of the service disconnect, but then list a couple of exceptions with one being 250.32(B) (2) for separate structures.


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## faber307 (Jan 22, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Tab... if you're installing provisions for 2 or more RV's, you'll have to comply with part VI of article 551. This includes minimum pedestal amp ratings and such.


alright, blowing dust offf the code book...............


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

wireman3736 said:


> I read 551.76(D) and it says you cannot connect the grounding electrode to the neutral on the load side of the service disconnect, but then list a couple of exceptions with one being 250.32(B) (2) for separate structures.


If you're running 4-wire, like it appears you need to, then your GEC would connect to the ECG buss, and not the neutral. This is getting really confusing. Interesting, though.


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## wireman3736 (Mar 3, 2007)

551.76(C) kinda contradics what I said in my last post


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## faber307 (Jan 22, 2007)

oh duh,

like a light pole base. 

sorry


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Tab Faber said:


> oh duh,
> 
> like a light pole base.
> 
> sorry


What's like a light pole base? The GEC to EGC connection?


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## faber307 (Jan 22, 2007)

I mean not bonding the neutral and grounding the can to the rod.

I'm thinking you should run the ground wire separate, drive a rod, and keep the neutral separate.

what do you think?


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## faber307 (Jan 22, 2007)

My estimate includes 7 of these babies,

http://www.rvpoweroutlet.com/RVU41CP.pdf

I was thinking I would only have to supply 120volts
but I may be wrong, might need 240? digging deeper


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Tab Faber said:


> I mean not bonding the neutral and grounding the can to the rod.
> 
> I'm thinking you should run the ground wire separate, drive a rod, and keep the neutral separate.
> 
> what do you think?


That's how I take it too. At least if that's how I've always done them. Just like light poles, it's never okay to drive a rod and not run an EGC. That's a recipie for electrocuted people.


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## faber307 (Jan 22, 2007)

Here's a note from :

http://www-gatago.com/rec/outdoors/rv-travel/21410207.html

In an RV park, the feeds to each site are wired using large, 0, 00, 000 size 
wire to each pedestal. Each run is wired, according to the information I've 
been able to get, using a single phase 120/240 feed, same as your house. 
There are actually 3 wires. Two hot and one neutral. *In a park with all 30 **amp boxes, every other box should use the opposite feed. *This means that if you could measure the hot from one box to the next, if the park is set up properly, you will get 240 volts across the hot's. I just went out and tested 2, 30 amp posts, measuring hot to hot, and sure enough, got 240 volts. Now, I understand that even a trained electrician could screw this up, but, again, IMO, he'd have to be pretty damn incompetent to do it. *One **of the main reason you would want the wiring done this way is to "balance" **the load to the main breaker for that run, and that's an important step in **wiring.* Now, as the park is wired the wire is run to the park pedestal, which is really nothing more that a fancy breaker box, and one of these leads is connected to the main service lug. If it's a 30/50 amp service, the box has both sides connected at the main service lugs in the box, allowing access to 240 volts at that box.

That makes sense, going back to ebm program to add a conductor.


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