# FPE Stab-lok



## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

The Canadian version is fine, but you cannot get code-compliant CAFCI breakers for it. I am surprized you found a new FPE panel... There are also tons of counterfeit breakers out there now for Stab-Loc, always get the ones with the coloured handles. The one with the black handles have been found to be counterfeit.

Cheers
John


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## treznik (Nov 12, 2017)

Navyguy said:


> The Canadian version is fine, but you cannot get code-compliant CAFCI breakers for it. I am surprized you found a new FPE panel... There are also tons of counterfeit breakers out there now for Stab-Loc, always get the ones with the coloured handles. The one with the black handles have been found to be counterfeit.
> 
> Cheers
> John


Thanks John, I assume it was left over stock from a contractor he knew. Any chance you know what was different in the Canadian version. Would help ease my mind. Thanks for the tip on the circuit breakers.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

No I can't say what was different between the USA and Canadian versions, but the USA versions report a higher then average failure rate and it is pretty much an automatic change out in the USA when an American Electrician comes across one.

There are still tens of thousands of the FPE panels in use in Canada, I have one in my house and come across them almost everyday and they are in good shape.

Cheers
John


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## circuitman1 (Mar 14, 2013)

to chime in on this matter , here in the usa there were big problems with FPE , because they falsified test reports. they were many lawsuits against them. now a company named UBI makes replacements for these panels,there not cheap though. ZINSCO was another problem panel here in the US. can't say much on the canadian FPE, but seems they were better than ours.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## NormousD (Nov 12, 2017)

I see old FPE's everywhere (probably late 60's and up)... they seem fine to me. I just hate that you can't get tandems for them and any type of GF OR AF breaker is absurdly pricey. 

Heard a while back from a supply shop counter guy that they weren't producing FPE breakers any more and whatever stock shops had, would be about all there is. Is that true?


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## treznik (Nov 12, 2017)

They are readily available at Home Depot.


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## NormousD (Nov 12, 2017)

treznik said:


> They are readily available at Home Depot.


Not a 3pole push-on 60amp or 100amp which I needed to add a sub panel to a service. Think I got the last 60amp he had, didn't have a 100amp and said he couldn't order them any more because FPE breakers were no longer being made.

But who believes a counter sales guy?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Also be reminded that the FPE AFCI breakers are not combination type, so they will not pass inspection if they are installed.

Cheers

John


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I will chime in here real quick .,, 

The Americian FPE did have alot of issue going on and there were alot of failures due they did not follow the UL testing on them and I am not confirmed that if they did mess up the setting on usa UL testing mode.

the larger commercal / industrail FPE was in the fair game too so some were ok and some were not worth a crap.,,

The Canada verison have diffrent UL testing prodcures on that. 

but what I heard but not confirmed the FPE ( cand verison ) they will plan to pull out of the market due the AFCI requirement kick in.

I have simauir situation over here in Philippines too I ran into couple but not too many so far.


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## NormousD (Nov 12, 2017)

frenchelectrican said:


> but what I heard but not confirmed the FPE ( cand verison ) they will plan to pull out of the market due the AFCI requirement kick in.


I can relate... I also want to pull out of the market due to the AFCI requirements kicking in.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

treznik said:


> As a favour for my friend I just installed a FPE Stab-lok BE124-48-1C100 main service panel in his 1958 vintage home. He is on a tight budget, got this panel for free and the old 1958 FPE equipment was in very rough shape (had to do something). I mentioned to him what issues have been surrounding FPE Stab-lok but he had no funds to get more modern equipment. I also fixed up some very shoddy wiring that was visible. All circuit breakers had the robertson slot screw so I assume these were the newer versions. The panel was unused and all circuits fit tightly. This is the first FPE Stab-lok panel that I installed in a very long time. With the volume of negative views on these panels I was wondering if any of you think this equipment I just installed poses real risks or concerns.


Last I checked, everybody is on a tight budget.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

treznik said:


> Any chance you know what was different in the Canadian version.


The bus mount was "Re-engineered" to hold onto the busses a little more securely.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

With the reputation they have there is no way I'd install their equipment.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

OP:

Are you saving your pal some $$ or are you 'selling the joint' to the fire insurance company ?

A basic residential panel is a JOKE expense.

Be real.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

telsa said:


> OP:
> 
> Are you saving your pal some $$ or are you 'selling the joint' to the fire insurance company ?
> 
> ...


I was kinda thinking that too. Lowe's has a value pack, main breaker panel with a bunch of single poles for like $50


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

My plumber friend did me a favor by installing a used hot water heater. It was 9 years old but it's still working.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

HackWork said:


> My plumber friend did me a favor by installing a used hot water heater. It was 9 years old but it's still working.


In the attic, right?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> In the attic, right?


Yeah. Right next to the forced hot air system that my HVAC friend gives me used filters to put in. They're a little dusty but they still work.


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## treznik (Nov 12, 2017)

telsa said:


> OP:
> 
> Are you saving your pal some $$ or are you 'selling the joint' to the fire insurance company ?
> 
> ...


This is why I asked the question. His old panel was arcing and failing and needed immediate removal. I didn't know he had this FPE panel vs. a more modern one until I showed up. He is also out of work at this time. I figured this panel was at least free for him and was better than the fire hazard the old equipment was posing. All the equipment installed was unused and in a sealed box. I just wanted to get your comments as I wanted to validly recommend he eventually gets a newer panel which is code compliant.


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## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

The panels are long gone up here. I haven't seen one on a shelf for over 10 years. The breakers are still readily available though, for now. I also heard they're not manufacturing them anymore and all they have left to sell is what's left in stock. I imagine over the next 5 to 10 years they'll be almost impossible to find , kind of like those old bolt in commander breakers.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

If my friend was a close enough buddy that I'd change the panel for free I'd probably gratis the panel until he got on his feet.

Especially if later you'll be doing the work AGAIN when he can buy one.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> The Canadian version is fine, but you cannot get code-compliant CAFCI breakers for it. I am surprized you found a new FPE panel... There are also tons of counterfeit breakers out there now for Stab-Loc, always get the ones with the coloured handles. The one with the black handles have been found to be counterfeit.
> 
> Cheers
> John


Actually the Canadian ones were the only ones ever recalled. 1996-1997 https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/Federal_Pioneer_Recall_Canada.pdf

Also see note in that recall about the handle colours


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Dark Knight said:


> The panels are long gone up here. I haven't seen one on a shelf for over 10 years. The breakers are still readily available though, for now. I also heard they're not manufacturing them anymore and all they have left to sell is what's left in stock. I imagine over the next 5 to 10 years they'll be almost impossible to find , kind of like those old bolt in commander breakers.


I remember seeing new panels on SH shelves as late as about 2010, but you're right, nowadays all you'll find is breakers and they are becoming more scarce and more expensive. So expensive that if you need more than three or four it's the same price or cheaper to change the panel to a different brand.

Up here Federal Pioneer was acquired by Schneider, and they now distribute the few breakers you can still find.

Recalls or reputations or not, I hate them. I've personally seen breakers not trip on dead shorts. I also hate the bussing. Never felt very secure to me, and I don't like how the polarity alternates every two spaces instead of every space. Plenty of dummies install 2 pole breakers for an MWBC on only one pole and cook the neutral. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Dark Knight said:


> The panels are long gone up here. I haven't seen one on a shelf for over 10 years. The breakers are still readily available though, for now. I also heard they're not manufacturing them anymore and all they have left to sell is what's left in stock. I imagine over the next 5 to 10 years they'll be almost impossible to find , kind of like those old bolt in commander breakers.


I got a milk crate of commander bolt on in the garage, and probably 60 or 70 FPE breakers in the garage... I'm not running out of them any time soon. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Zog said:


> Actually the Canadian ones were the only ones ever recalled. 1996-1997 https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/Federal_Pioneer_Recall_Canada.pdf
> 
> Also see note in that recall about the handle colours


I think that was the first recall with the breakers and when they went to the coloured handles.

Something came up about 10 years ago +/- where there were tons of black handled breakers that were counterfeit and FPE stated that only their coloured handle breakers were the real ones... for the NCO style. This did not apply to the NA or NB style breakers, but I doubt people were counterfeiting those breakers anyway...

I am sure patents have run out by now anyway so I am not sure what / if it even matters anyway now.

Cheers

John


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

treznik said:


> As a favour for my friend I just installed a FPE Stab-lok BE124-48-1C100 main service panel in his 1958 vintage home. He is on a tight budget, got this panel for free and the old 1958 FPE equipment was in very rough shape (had to do something). I mentioned to him what issues have been surrounding FPE Stab-lok but he had no funds to get more modern equipment. I also fixed up some very shoddy wiring that was visible. All circuit breakers had the robertson slot screw so I assume these were the newer versions. The panel was unused and all circuits fit tightly. This is the first FPE Stab-lok panel that I installed in a very long time. With the volume of negative views on these panels I was wondering if any of you think this equipment I just installed poses real risks or concerns.


In America, that wouldn’t be a favor.:laughing:


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

I had a box full of stab-lok breakers, the white ones with colored handles. They were basically new from Home Depot. I sold them to a guy on Kijiji. When he came to pick them up, I felt like I was signing his death warrant.
I sometimes wonder how the Chinese market has not got their hands on manufacturing panels. All hell will break loose then.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Went on a call yesterday, mice had chewed up the wiring in a nasty rental. Had stab-lok, one was a black handle counterfeit. "Here, look..." the owner says, as a shower of sparks spray out of one he turns on. It did shut back off after a second or two of buzzing, I was surprised. 

Planning to meg every circuit out but told him before I touch anything, that panel has to go and we have breakers that will actually trip.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> I got a milk crate of commander bolt on in the garage, and probably 60 or 70 FPE breakers in the garage... I'm not running out of them any time soon.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Sell them.

Cutler hammer /Eaton make replacements and they charge big $ for those.

A double pole 100 amp retails for $150 at Home Depot.


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

We know about all the USA problems with the FPE panels....I did ask an Electrical Inspector in BC once about these....he just pointed to the CSA sticker and said "ours have that !"....."The USA ones don't!"


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

eddy current said:


> Sell them.
> 
> Cutler hammer /Eaton make replacements and they charge big $ for those.
> 
> A double pole 100 amp retails for $150 at Home Depot.


We sell them when we need them. Gone through about 40 FPE breakers already.

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## Simpson Electric (May 22, 2012)

In California FPE panels are pretty much the devil. You trash them. No questions asked.


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## cc2kj (Aug 3, 2012)

I got my hands on new outdoor AC compressor that uses R12 refrigerant. Not sure why it was so cheap?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

cc2kj said:


> I got my hands on new outdoor AC compressor that uses R12 refrigerant. Not sure why it was so cheap?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If it's new and R12 it's probably factory charged. Score!:tt2:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Was this permitted and inspected? I am interested in knowing if an inspector would green sticker this even if the panel is fresh out of the box.

For a friend, I would have thrown in a fresh Siemens panel and given him some time to pay me back. Almost anybody can invent 200 bucks in short order; it's only a few boxes of beer.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Was this permitted and inspected? I am interested in knowing if an inspector would green sticker this even if the panel is fresh out of the box.
> 
> For a friend, I would have thrown in a fresh Siemens panel and given him some time to pay me back. Almost anybody can invent 200 bucks in short order; it's only a few boxes of beer.


Buddy!!!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Buddy!!!


I got bored so I decided to see what you azzhats were up to. Seems to be the same around here, about as inspirational as a week old bowl of porridge :laughing: .


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

99cents said:


> I got bored so I decided to see what you azzhats were up to. Seems to be the same around here, about as inspirational as a week old bowl of porridge :laughing: .


Everything old is new again, thanks to MTW. 

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## Dpm1132 (Oct 18, 2017)

Throw the FPE in the trash!!!! I've come across many faulty breakers.... also plenty burnt ones and non resetable ones.. 25 main breakers 100 amp melted.... FPE is a fire hazard insurance companies know that too...


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