# Track lighting without using a box?



## electricista

hayan453 said:


> just saw a track light with wiremold going to a ceiling fan... is this a code violation? or can you splice in the track inclosure?? just wondering..


Most tracks I have seen have a live end fitting in which you can bring your power to. I assume the wiremold is entering this enclosure. The enclosure usually has three terminal screws for neutral, hot and ground.


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## Celtic

hayan453 said:


> just saw a track light with wiremold going to a ceiling fan... is this a code violation? or can you splice in the track inclosure?? just wondering..


Most TL JB's have barely enough room for one cable...forget two.

They do make larger TL JB's, but there should be a box behind that point......as I recall :whistling2:


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## electricista

Celtic said:


> Most TL JB's have barely enough room for one cable...forget two.
> 
> They do make larger TL JB's, but there should be a box behind that point......as I recall :whistling2:


You could also feed into one end of the track and use a live end on the other side to feed out. Legal? I don't know for sure.


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## 480sparky

electricista said:


> You could also feed into one end of the track and use a live end on the other side to feed out. Legal? I don't know for sure.


 
Not legal because they are polarized and will only fit into one end of the track.


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## hayan453

oh i see so it terminates in the en of the track like terminating in a panel? same kinda screw type lugs?


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## hayan453

electricista is right they do have the opposite side so you can daisy chain the TL.. thank you google haha.. and thanks guys for the help :thumbsup:


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## manchestersparky

If I came across this on an inspection I would ask to see verification from the manufacture that the track light is approved for this set up. I'm willing to bet that it is not.


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## electricista

480sparky said:


> Not legal because they are polarized and will only fit into one end of the track.


I believe 480 sparky hit the nail on the head. 

I have seen , in the past, a track manufacturer that made the end fitting so that you break off a tab on one side-- basically you could decide which terminal was neutral or hot. I guess you would have to reverse the screws on the far side.

I also agree with manchestersparky, the track is probably not listed for this install. It is a bit atypical.


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## electricista

hayan453 said:


> electricista is right they do have the opposite side so you can daisy chain the TL.. thank you google haha.. and thanks guys for the help :thumbsup:


Do you have a link to the part you are talking about.


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## 480sparky

electricista said:


> I believe 480 sparky hit the nail on the head.
> 
> I have seen , in the past, a track manufacturer that made the end fitting so that you break off a tab on one side-- basically you could decide which terminal was neutral or hot. I guess you would have to reverse the screws on the far side.
> 
> I also agree with manchestersparky, the track is probably not listed for this install. It is a bit atypical.


How can you 'decide' which terminal is hot and which is neutral? The lampholders on the track must be kept polarized to satisfy 200.10(C), 410.50 and 410.90.


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## electricista

480sparky said:


> How can you 'decide' which terminal is hot and which is neutral? The lampholders on the track must be kept polarized to satisfy 200.10(C), 410.50 and 410.90.


This is true but I do recall this system. I am thinking it was an old juno vector system but am not certain. I may be wacked about this--it was 15 or more years ago.


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## MDShunk

hayan453 said:


> just saw a track light with wiremold going to a ceiling fan... is this a code violation? or can you splice in the track inclosure?? just wondering..


I'm not even sure I understand this setup. Track light... got it. Track light with Wiremold... okay, with you so far. I guess the Wiremold is feeding the track, eh? Track light with Wiremold going to a ceiling fan... this is where I get lost. I just can't picture what is is you're describing. What feeds the fan, exactly??? Are you saying someone somehow hung a fan off track?


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## te12co2w

I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about, but Halo makes what they call a conduit continuation kit, #L979. Designed as two live end connectors with a 1/2" conduit ko. Feed in a track and feed out the other end to go to another piece of track, or in this case, wiremold then out to a ceiling fan.


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## electricista

te12co2w said:


> I don't know if this is what you guys are talking about, but Halo makes what they call a conduit continuation kit, #L979. Designed as two live end connectors with a 1/2" conduit ko. Feed in a track and feed out the other end to go to another piece of track, or in this case, wiremold then out to a ceiling fan.



I believe you are correct










They are made as right and left end conduit continuation kit. This helps you get around obstacles.

Here is the link


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## hayan453

MDshunk there was an exsisting ceiling fan and the track lighting was put in later so they got power from the fan.. im guessing 12/3 to the fan and instead of having a fan/light setup they just had a fan.. and i shouldve copied the link... i'll try to find it again electricista..


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## 480sparky

hayan453 said:


> MDshunk there was an exsisting ceiling fan and the track lighting was put in later so they got power from the fan.. im guessing 12/3 to the fan and instead of having a fan/light setup they just had a fan.. and i shouldve copied the link... i'll try to find it again electricista..


Interesting. How did the wiring get from the ceiling fan box into the Wiremold?


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## electricista

480sparky said:


> Interesting. How did the wiring get from the ceiling fan box into the Wiremold?



How about the old notch in the canopy trick.


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## 480sparky

electricista said:


> How about the old notch in the canopy trick.


That would be my assumption..... hack work as it is.


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## JohnJ0906

electricista said:


> How about the old notch in the canopy trick.






















You mean like that?


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## electricista

JohnJ0906 said:


> You mean like that?



Nice work John. :thumbup:


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## JohnJ0906

electricista said:


> Nice work John. :thumbup:


Thanks!



















I kept the disconnecting means close.... for safety!


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## JohnJ0906

(Above pictures from this thread, originally)


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## electricista

JohnJ0906 said:


> (Above pictures from this thread, originally)


They couldn't even match the colors on the plate to the receptacle.

I wonder how that got that big plug thru the wiremold.


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## user4818

Look on the bright side...at least it's a grounded heavy duty cord instead of zip cord. :jester:


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## hayan453

I dont know how they did it.. forgot already but its probably something like johns pictures i would think.. how would you guys do it? an exposed round box under the canopy would look too tacky i think.. do they have something for this kind of situation?


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## electricista

hayan453 said:


> I dont know how they did it.. forgot already but its probably something like johns pictures i would think.. how would you guys do it? an exposed round box under the canopy would look too tacky i think.. do they have something for this kind of situation?



A surface box may be tacky but that is one legal and safe way to do it. The pictures are flagrant violations of the NEC.

Here is what I would do. Assuming no attic, I would fish a piece of wire out the fan box into the back of a live end connector. The track would then be connected to that connector. Clean and fairly simple. 

If the fan is on a surface that cannot be fished then I would add a wiremold round extension ring and have the wiremold come out of the box as it should. Shown in this picture. Then take the wiremold into the track conduit end fitting










Here is the Halo live end fitting. The ko is in the back.


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## te12co2w

electricista said:


> If the fan is on a surface that cannot be fished then I would add a wiremold round extension ring and have the wiremold come out of the box as it should. Shown in this picture. Then take the wiremold into the track conduit end fitting
> 
> 
> Does wiremold make a round ext ring, or a box for that matter, that is fan rated?


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## electricista

te12co2w said:


> electricista said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the fan is on a surface that cannot be fished then I would add a wiremold round extension ring and have the wiremold come out of the box as it should. Shown in this picture. Then take the wiremold into the track conduit end fitting
> 
> 
> Does wiremold make a round ext ring, or a box for that matter, that is fan rated?
> 
> 
> 
> You would not be hanging the fan from the wiremold box but rather from the box above which we all *hope *is fan rated.
> 
> Also wiremold does make a fan rated round box that is fan rated.
> 
> 
> V5738A part number
Click to expand...


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## JohnJ0906

electricista said:


> You would not be hanging the fan from the wiremold box but rather from the box above which we all *hope *is fan rated.


Or support the fan independently of the box.


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## electricista

JohnJ0906 said:


> Or support the fan independently of the box.


That is certainly an option if there is some framing behind the box to attach the fan bracket.


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## manchestersparky

OH -- OK , Now I see it!

When I first read the original post I read it as the feed went to the track light first then to the fan, using the track light as a raceway to get the fan wires to the fan. 
Brain Fart ? Old Age setting In ? Reading more into it then there was -You decide. :confused1: 

I recant my prior statement and say:
As long as the fan is supported properly,according to the NEC in force, and the wiremold is ran according to it's listing,using all the proper fittings and supports there shouldn't be a problem


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## electricista

manchestersparky said:


> OH -- OK , Now I see it!
> 
> When I first read the original post I read it as the feed went to the track light first then to the fan, using the track light as a raceway to get the fan wires to the fan.
> Brain Fart ? Old Age setting In ? Reading more into it then there was -You decide. :confused1:
> 
> I recant my prior statement and say:
> As long as the fan is supported properly,according to the NEC in force, and the wiremold is ran according to it's listing,using all the proper fittings and supports there shouldn't be a problem


I thought that was a possibly scenario also. With the fittings I showed in the earlier post I believe that would be an okay install.


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## hayan453

Wow you learn something new everyday... thats a great idea electricista.. does the wiremold round ext. box come with a KO on the side?


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## 480sparky

hayan453 said:


> Wow you learn something new everyday... thats a great idea electricista.. does the wiremold round ext. box come with a KO on the side?


It's round.... so it can't. 314.2.


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## hayan453

oh ya stupid question  didnt really think about that one.. so how does electricists setup work? "I would add a wiremold round extension ring and have the wiremold come out of the box as it should" <--- this part?


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## electricista

hayan453 said:


> oh ya stupid question  didnt really think about that one.. so how does electricists setup work? "I would add a wiremold round extension ring and have the wiremold come out of the box as it should" <--- this part?


The wiremold slips into the slot on the wiremold ext. ring. From there it will go to the track light using a wiremold adapter.










This would screw into the halo track fitting.


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## hayan453

what secures the connector to the ext. ring?


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## electricista

hayan453 said:


> what secures the connector to the ext. ring?


Have you ever used wiremold? The wiremold box has a tab that the wiremold slides into. It is just a pressure fit-- no connector. Wiremold has a metal backing. The cover , so to speak, has a channel on the back side so that the box tab can slide in snuggly. It is a tight fit.

Look at page 7 of this wiremold PDF . You can see the tabs on the box there.


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## hayan453

I have used wiremold before but not this particular type of connector.. its hard to see it when i look at the "drawing" of it..


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## hayan453

okay i understand now.. sorry, it took awhile to register :blink: we dont do too much of this stuff in high rises haha..


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