# Help with Art 410



## sokoservices (Feb 23, 2010)

Nec 2008:
410.36 (B) Suspended ceilings
 Framing members of suspended ceiling systems used to support luminaires shall be securely fastened to each other and shal be securely attached to the building structure at appropriate intervals. Luminaires shal be securely fastened to the ceiling framing member by mechanical means such as bolts, scres, or rivits. Listed clips indentified for use with type of ceiling framing member(s) and luminaire(s) shall also be permited.

Question is:
Where does it say you must use *4 *screws in the four corners? Its only says to use screws but doesnt say how many.
Where does it say if you dont screw it you must use 4 wires to the deck above?

I have a customer that had his ceiling guy hand the lights with only two wires because the other side was sitting on the track main and he said that was the secure side and the side he hung was the unsecure side... Will I fail if there are only two wires? This is a job from hell. I guess next time I will make sure i get the entire job and not bits and pieces of it...

Thanks
SOKO


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

sokoservices said:


> Nec 2008:
> 410.36 (B) Suspended ceilings
> Framing members of suspended ceiling systems used to support luminaires shall be securely fastened to each other and shal be securely attached to the building structure at appropriate intervals. Luminaires shal be securely fastened to the ceiling framing member by mechanical means such as bolts, scres, or rivits. Listed clips indentified for use with type of ceiling framing member(s) and luminaire(s) shall also be permited.
> 
> ...



I would check with the local ahj as I believe this is a subjective rule. Building code is what requires a fixture to be independently support the fixture. Normally we put independent wires with some orange spray paint to identify the wires that are not part of the ceiling.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Local thing. In Los Angeles we usually put two wires caddy corner, and two screws in the other corners. Some places require screws in all corners, so we usually do that everywhere.


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## wirenut71 (Dec 5, 2010)

We do the same here. Give inspector a call and find out what they require.


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## Joe Tedesco (Mar 25, 2007)

sokoservices said:


> Nec 2008:
> 410.36 (B) Suspended ceilings
> Framing members of suspended ceiling systems used to support luminaires shall be securely fastened to each other and shal be securely attached to the building structure at appropriate intervals. Luminaires shal be securely fastened to the ceiling framing member by mechanical means such as bolts, scres, or rivits. Listed clips indentified for use with type of ceiling framing member(s) and luminaire(s) shall also be permited.
> 
> ...


Take a look at the UL Marking guide here for information if the product has support requirements.


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## gnxtc2 (Feb 21, 2011)

Did work in an office building where the fire inspector wanted no light fixture screwed/clipped to the grid. He wanted the fixture jack chained to the deck. His reasoning was if there was a fire, the firefighters are going to rip down the ceiling and dont want the lights to fall upon them.

Sure enough, there was a fire inside an office and the fire deptment responded and tore down the suspended ceiling. The lights where suspended and the grid was lying on the floor.

I guess the fire inspector has more authority over the electrical inspector.

Billy T.
[email protected]


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I have always been told that the tywires are a building code. It is not an electrical code. I have also been told that these ty-wires need to be 12 gauge.

Ty opposite corners at least if you are only going to use two wires. Depending on job specs, I have seen 4 screws with 4 different pieces of wire, 2 screws with 2 wires, 2 screws with 1 long doubled wire, and 1 screw with 1 long doubled wire. 

I have heard also, that if you do use tywires, there has to be 3 complete twists of the wire around itself, to meet code. OH, and of course no wire at all. I think this is BOCA?

Most troffers I have seen, come with a fold out "hurricane clip" that most of the time the AHJ allows for NEC compliance.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

gnxtc2 said:


> Did work in an office building where the fire inspector wanted no light fixture screwed/clipped to the grid. He wanted the fixture jack chained to the deck. His reasoning was if there was a fire, the firefighters are going to rip down the ceiling and dont want the lights to fall upon them.
> 
> Sure enough, there was a fire inside an office and the fire deptment responded and tore down the suspended ceiling. The lights where suspended and the grid was lying on the floor.
> 
> ...


Two wires here in Alaska too. Plus the 515 Caddy clips, or screws.

The thing about the fire department - Swing that hose across the overhead to see if there are problems above - those accoustic tiles fly when that water hits them! Lights, not so much so, they need be where they won't come falling down when the fit hits the shan!


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