# How would you manage this dense of a project



## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Southeast Power said:


> We were invited to negotiate a small building renovation.
> 
> One part is to relocate the distribution from the first floor to 11' above some kind of FEMA flood elevation. No problem. All new gear, a few 112s and a 150 kva. That's what we like to do.
> 
> ...




Big jobs are nothing but a bunch of small jobs stuck together. Some running simultaneously and others in a particular sequence dependent upon other variables. They key is to know the labor in time, manpower and sequence. This is not a simple task but knowing the labor amount will give you a better picture into how many bodies you need in the time frame allotted. Service work like this is extra complicated. Lead time on purchases, downtime on building power etc. Also, can the new equipment be installed and then cutover in a short amount of time. 
Look. It’s a big undertaking. Just be glad you’re prepared for this. You’re an electrician not a painter


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

The devil is in the details. 
Cubicles---ok who supplies the furniture feeds. Do you need to core holes for furniture feeds not along a wall or column or do they have posts that reach into the ceiling? 

Fire alarm system...who is doing it
Security system if any 
Lighting system..no office around here uses just toggles anymore and they haven't for years....what about where you are? 
----motion switches are easy enough but what about motion sensors and power packs or if its a complete lighting system like Lutron
ETC etc etc
Do you actually have the workers already who can do the work required or are they more just power guys good at that spectrum of our industry but not familiar enough with others to be able to do it in an efficient manner aka a manner that will make you money? 
Can some of us who do commercial cross over and do other tasks--absolutely for the most part but can you cross over because you are well rounded enough to do it efficiently is a skill others do not posses and only you know your manpower


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Me and my kid , we could whip that in three months no problem. But we are not available, I'm putting in hotel wiring and he is doing hospital remodeling.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

There are for sure dozens of core holes for poke thru combos for the open area desks.
We are doing the fire alarm and all of the systems.
My labor might get into the 30k to 35k per week.
I’ll need to get 150k in mobilization money to buffer the payroll and enough progress money to pay vendors.

I haven’t set up a line of credit. Is this something to consider. It’s a bit stressful to run these jobs on cash.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

The first thing is finding out the contract time to substantial completion.


Then you'll have an idea what it'll take for a labor force and if it'll be manageable or not.


Last thing you want to do is wrap yourself up in a big project and then piss off your regular customers you can't get too.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Southeast Power said:


> There are for sure dozens of core holes for poke thru combos for the open area desks.
> 
> We are doing the fire alarm and all of the systems.
> 
> ...




Nailed it. Who is the customer and who is the PM/GC in charge of requisition fulfillment and/or progress payments. Do they pay. It’s better to lose a job than lose money on a job. 


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

You can't figure out the first thing until until you've seen their critical path.

If they do not have one -- this project is in big trouble already.

For EVERYTHING you do must be in sync with their larger plan. 

THAT'S what determines your manning. You may well find that you have to surge - then back off - then back on, etc. This is where the IBEW shines. 

I don't know the size of your labor pool available -- but my hunch is that this job is too big for you.

It's the SURGES.

If you get behind -- you're totally screwed. 

For the GC is not going to slow down for you -- not even a second.

I take for granted that the building will be totally unoccupied -- and that a gen-set will be brought in to provide temp power while you play with the secondaries and your dry-type transformers.

I'm assuming an underground feed that must be re-piped to the upper floor. 

Cubicle feeds can be a breeze -- or a cluster -- based on whether the GC knows even the first thing about their submittals. The usual drill is that the upper floors must be fed from the plenum below -- and that the first floor will have a wet cut trench or two to route #10 THWN-2 to them. That can be quite a tab -- payable to the sub.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Do you suffer from high blood pressure, indigestion and insomnia? Eat a lot of tums?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

telsa said:


> You can't figure out the first thing until until you've seen their critical path.
> 
> If they do not have one -- this project is in big trouble already.
> 
> ...


The GC is a large national-level size contractor. I do not have any qualms about payment or project management on their side.
We have access to labor including journeymen and apprentices.
Temporary power will for sure be an issue.
The first-floor distribution plan, now that I look at it, isnt completely moving the electric room. 
It looks like they will be decking up the first floor to about +10' and we will need to relocate the two existing 150 kvas and the one 112kva to the west wall, Install them and new panelboards at a minimum of +12'
I think I would like to build a rack stack the transformers on the wall opposite the door.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Become an IBEW signatory. Manpower will be no problem, foremen run the project, and deal with the headaches, no worries about hiring/firing, and depending on how you bid it, it'll be done on schedule, and under budget.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Become an IBEW signatory. Manpower will be no problem, foremen run the project, and deal with the headaches, no worries about hiring/firing, and depending on how you bid it, it'll be done on schedule, and under budget.


MTW, you can put three of those smiley's with the eyebrows looking up right here please.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> MTW, you can put three of those smiley's with the eyebrows looking up right here please.


Can't blame a guy for tryin'.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

joebanana said:


> Become an IBEW signatory. Manpower will be no problem, foremen run the project, and deal with the headaches, no worries about hiring/firing, and depending on how you bid it, it'll be done on schedule, and under budget.


We have been signatory since day one.:biggrin:
Its not worry-free.:wink:


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Southeast Power said:


> We have been signatory since day one.:biggrin:
> Its not worry-free.:wink:


 Well yeah, audience participation is required. As far as I've seen, as long as we've got the current revision print, material, and interaction with the office, and builder, it's less worry than hiring whatever you can get, and hoping for the best, and that they all get along. 

What's the problem you're having? Just a plan of attack, logistics, and procurement type pondering's, or trustworthy manpower?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I think NewElect85 can do the job by himself.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MTW said:


> I think NewElect85 can do the job by himself.


Especially if Jrannis came out of retirement to help him. Those two guys would make SunCoastpower or whatever his handle is called a super duper combination......


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

joebanana said:


> Well yeah, audience participation is required. As far as I've seen, as long as we've got the current revision print, material, and interaction with the office, and builder, it's less worry than hiring whatever you can get, and hoping for the best, and that they all get along.
> 
> What's the problem you're having? Just a plan of attack, logistics, and procurement type pondering's, or trustworthy manpower?


Labor is the least of my worries. 
I don't like the idea of closing shop for a year to do one project. it really hurt my service customers the last time we did something similar. 
I like service work just due to the cash flow. 
I have two long term jobs going on right now. The stakes are higher and the margin is tighter vs service work.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> Labor is the least of my worries.
> I don't like the idea of closing shop for a year to do one project. it really hurt my service customers the last time we did something similar.
> I like service work just due to the cash flow.
> I have two long term jobs going on right now. The stakes are higher and the margin is tighter vs service work.


I am of no help here, the only way I know to see how far you can stretch is hindsight, figuring it out often involves hurting yourself. 

Is your accounting system's job costing really tight? If it is at least you get the hindsight, see if it was worth the agita after the fact. You could set up a separate set of books just for this job if your job costing isn't all there. 

I did a stretch project with another contractor a while back. I set up a separate set of books for that project but we really should have set up a separate LLC. I don't know if that would make credit a problem though.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Just write a check for 50k, give it to the GC and walk away from the job. You'll be way ahead.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Southeast Power said:


> Labor is the least of my worries.
> I don't like the idea of closing shop for a year to do one project. it really hurt my service customers the last time we did something similar.
> I like service work just due to the cash flow.
> I have two long term jobs going on right now. The stakes are higher and the margin is tighter vs service work.


Sounds like you're looking for someone to talk you out of it, understandable. Stick with what makes you money, and what you're comfortable with. Projects like that can go sideways real quick. There always seems to be a "gotcha" somewhere in the specs that can turn a good day bad in a heartbeat. As a side note, if you get a job with a bunch of cores, just buy the damn core drill. Them things can be a gold mine.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

joebanana said:


> Sounds like you're looking for someone to talk you out of it, understandable. Stick with what makes you money, and what you're comfortable with. Projects like that can go sideways real quick. There always seems to be a "gotcha" somewhere in the specs that can turn a good day bad in a heartbeat. As a side note, if you get a job with a bunch of cores, just buy the damn core drill. Them things can be a gold mine.




Only Hilti bits cut. Tried a bunch of brands. Hilti has more cutting media in the teeth


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Southeast Power said:


> Labor is the least of my worries.
> I don't like the idea of closing shop for a year to do one project. it really hurt my service customers the last time we did something similar.
> I like service work just due to the cash flow.
> I have two long term jobs going on right now. The stakes are higher and the margin is tighter vs service work.


Work is good right now and lots of companies are remodeling and expanding but if it slows down a big job like this might be a good thing. I think it would be kind of a scary process bidding on this large of a job. Hopefully they will give you enough time to carefully go over the plans and specks. There must be a ton of things to consider. I have seen contractors bid remodel jobs and are making great headway then a week later the owner changes the game plan and restricts the hours they can work to only nights because of the noise or dust. That hurts. Good luck on this. Take your time making that final decision.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

The schedule is going to be paramount.
I’ll leaning more towards just pulling the permit, doing the demo and relocating the electric room.
That will chop it into enough pieces for me to decide if I want to do the build out.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

VELOCI3 said:


> Only Hilti bits cut. Tried a bunch of brands. Hilti has more cutting media in the teeth
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good point, bro. The Hilti core rig is pretty dope too. Harbor Freight core bits aint worth the money you'd save. And use lots of water.


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