# Bit tips for breakers



## Four_2 (Feb 11, 2018)

Hi all, I was landing and installing breakers in a panel last week. Everything is fine until I go to torque the bolts and seems like 10-20 % of the square heads strip out before I get them torqued. Is there a better bit I should be using that fits better? Or just torque them with a straight blade tip? Thanks


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Four_2 said:


> Hi all, I was landing and installing breakers in a panel last week. Everything is fine until I go to torque the bolts and seems like 10-20 % of the square heads strip out before I get them torqued. Is there a better bit I should be using that fits better? Or just torque them with a straight blade tip? Thanks


You might find that you are over tightening them.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

If it's slipping out, you may be using the wrong driver.
If it's indeed stripping, you may be confusing inch pounds with feet pounds. 
Torque = distance * force. 
1 ft lb = 12 in lb


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

A square d QO breaker 10-30amps is supposed to be torqued to 36in-lbs and 35-70amps is 45 in-lbs. Its a lot less then you think.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:Torquing a small breaker.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

You're over-torquing them something silly.

Or you're using a #1 Robertson tip whereas they need a #2.

( _Very_ strange )


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## Four_2 (Feb 11, 2018)

Stripping them is perhaps the wrong word, yes I had it set to 36 in-lbs. the square is stripping out and I have to finish it with the straight blade. And laugh about torquing them if you will, it’s a requirement where I’m work.


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## Four_2 (Feb 11, 2018)

But looking around on the web I think this is what I’m looking for

Milwaukee
#2 ECX 2 in. Shockwave Impact Duty 



Wouldn’t let me put in a link


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Four_2 said:


> But looking around on the web I think this is what I’m looking for
> 
> Milwaukee
> #2 ECX 2 in. Shockwave Impact Duty
> ...


Now you are heading in the right direction.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

What type of breakers? I had the same issue with SQD Homeline style, switched to those same bits you are looking at and they stopped stripping out. We had it happening with several of our calibrated torque screwdrivers, and we were following all procedures properly.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Now you are heading in the right direction.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-2-ECX-Shockwave-Insert-Bit-2-Pack-48-32-4442/203393001

Amazon doesn't appear to have them.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

No no. Be careful. ECX does NOT work on those square/straight screws. It works on diamond/straight screws (a la emt fittings). It will not go in a square/straight. Some houses DO make a square/straight tip but not Milwaukee’s ECX. 

For panels, and mini breakers, I use a #2 Robertson (and it annoys me when they are only slotted screws on those breakers. Stupid). 

Be aware also that if you use a bit, it is POSSIBLE that it will fall out of your bit holder inside the panel, which can be bad. 

Personally, I use an ECX (screwdriver, not a 10-in-1) for fittings. You can really crank on them. For panels I use a #2 Robertson like I said. And word to the wise, don’t buy an ECX bit for your impact to use on fittings, because you’re guaranteed to slip and jam it into your palm! Fun!


Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Additionally, Klein’s “combo tip” is the same as the ECX - diamond/slotted. I’m trying to find who makes the square/slotted for breakers, not having any luck. 


Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

A #2 Robertson screwdriver always worked great for me in a GE panel.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

tjb said:


> No no. Be careful. ECX does NOT work on those square/straight screws. It works on diamond/straight screws (a la emt fittings). It will not go in a square/straight. Some houses DO make a square/straight tip but not Milwaukee’s ECX.
> 
> For panels, and mini breakers, I use a #2 Robertson (and it annoys me when they are only slotted screws on those breakers. Stupid).
> 
> ...





tjb said:


> Additionally, Klein’s “combo tip” is the same as the ECX - diamond/slotted. I’m trying to find who makes the square/slotted for breakers, not having any luck.
> 
> 
> Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might.


Please explain the difference between "diamond - straight" and "square - straight". 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Okay. So you got a square. Sides are top and bottom. The straight slot is basically a line bisecting that square, left to right. It passes through the left and right sides of the square. Like on a breaker. 

Diamond/straight. You got a diamond, basically a square but top and bottom aren’t the sides, they’re the corners. The same straight slot is again a horizontal line bisecting it from left to right. But on this, it passes through the left and right corner, not sides. 

Sorry, can’t find a good picture of them. 


Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Four_2 said:


> Stripping them is perhaps the wrong word, yes I had it set to 36 in-lbs. the square is stripping out and I have to finish it with the straight blade. And laugh about torquing them if you will, it’s a requirement where I’m work.


36 in-lbs = 3 foot-lbs.

Who is providing the pot-metal fasteners ? :surprise:

May I suggest that your torque readings need to be re-calibrated.

The last time I saw a lug broken while being torqued -- 

the torque wrench was busted.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Diamond/straight (ECX):

https://goo.gl/images/FRgdk2

Square/straight:

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...&ved=0ahUKEwjS-bmlgJ_ZAhWFjVkKHWKpCucQ-rYBCAQ


Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might.


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## Satch (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks tjb. Those photos make it easier for people to understand. Weird that two variants of the same fastener are in regular use. Sometimes within the same brand! 

Now, lets add to the confusion. Right now Wiha has a coule of insulated sets of their 'zeno' tipped drivers on sale. It kind of looks like the diamond/slot but I cannot find a clear photo of the tips. Anyone know what's what on these?


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## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

Satch said:


> Thanks tjb. Those photos make it easier for people to understand. Weird that two variants of the same fastener are in regular use. Sometimes within the same brand!
> 
> Now, lets add to the confusion. Right now Wiha has a coule of insulated sets of their 'zeno' tipped drivers on sale. It kind of looks like the diamond/slot but I cannot find a clear photo of the tips. Anyone know what's what on these?


This is a non PoziDriv Zeno #2










They really are the way to go for any sort of control panel terminals or DIN mount breakers. They fit lots of device screws perfectly too. The #1 Zeno fits smaller control panel terminals, and it also fits #6-32 phillips/slotted screws perfectly.


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## Satch (Mar 3, 2011)

ppsh said:


> This is a non PoziDriv Zeno #2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, this is what confuses me about all this. I went back to Wiha's site and looking a bit closer they list a number of these drivers as 'terminal block' and 'slotted/posidriv'. Alright, I get the latter since it is pretty self explanatory. But is the terminal block version the same general thing but a slotted/Philips? And I take it neither would be the precise choice for the square or diamond w/slot fastteners? To show you how closely they are related the part numbers are 30700 and 30701 for 1 and 2 terminal block and 30711 and 30712 for the sloted/posidriv cersions. Thanks.


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## Satch (Mar 3, 2011)

Oh, and sorry for the misspelling. It is actually 'Xeno' and not zeno. My mistake.


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## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

Satch said:


> Okay, this is what confuses me about all this. I went back to Wiha's site and looking a bit closer they list a number of these drivers as 'terminal block' and 'slotted/posidriv'. Alright, I get the latter since it is pretty self explanatory. But is the terminal block version the same general thing but a slotted/Philips? And I take it neither would be the precise choice for the square or diamond w/slot fastteners? To show you how closely they are related the part numbers are 30700 and 30701 for 1 and 2 terminal block and 30711 and 30712 for the sloted/posidriv cersions. Thanks.


Their terminal drivers are a slotted/phillips combo. They aren't the right choice for the Square D breaker terminals, the Milwaukee ECX style fits those best. The Wera and Wiha Square #2 drivers fit them great too.


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## Satch (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks ppsh. I don't know what anyone else would think about it but I wish all fasteners would switch over to Torx. Even the hex head stuff could have a Torx in the center since many of them have a combination slot/ph there now. It would help cut down on screwdriver clutter in the tool kit. On the other hand, this would eliminate good screwdriver threads on tool forums!


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Satch said:


> Thanks ppsh. I don't know what anyone else would think about it but I wish all fasteners would switch over to Torx. Even the hex head stuff could have a Torx in the center since many of them have a combination slot/ph there now. It would help cut down on screwdriver clutter in the tool kit. On the other hand, this would eliminate good screwdriver threads on tool forums!


I feel the same way but I would really rather the square drive took over. 

Too many sizes in Torx, who in the world decided T10 is just a red C. hair too big, we need a T9. Too hard to eyeball the size, and it can be fiddly getting the thing started. Same is true for hex socket. 

Square #1, #2, and #3 should be enough for anything that you drive between eyeglasses size and 1/4" hardware, and at that point it should be a nutdriver / socket / wrench. 

I'd hedge by making everything slotted-square. The slot doesn't hurt anything and it's there as a backup if you strip the square, which very very rarely happens. Plus for "backward compatibility"


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:Torquing a small breaker.


I know, huh? It's like wasting all that money on Romex staples, when you could just use duct tape, or string.
(wait for it.......I know that reply is going to trigger someone)


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


>


The TL 29.....I have my father's from his Korean war days.


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## Satch (Mar 3, 2011)

splatz said:


> I feel the same way but I would really rather the square drive took over.
> 
> Too many sizes in Torx, who in the world decided T10 is just a red C. hair too big, we need a T9. Too hard to eyeball the size, and it can be fiddly getting the thing started. Same is true for hex socket.
> 
> ...


Good post. Yeah, I never knew about all the baby Torx sizes as I call them til a few years ago. All I had ever used was the typical T10-30 stuff with the odd 27 for good measure.

Indeed, two or three sizes would do it all for small hardware from M2 or 4-40 up through 1/4-20 or around M7 for metric. I just cannot believe all the ridiculous drive types out there. I know most of the carpenters I talk to are using deck screws with Torx drive but hey, I could live with the 1, 2, 3 square drive. If for nothing else to get away from slotted screws which I have learned to detest.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

splatz said:


> I feel the same way but I would really rather the square drive took over.
> 
> Too many sizes in Torx, who in the world decided T10 is just a red C. hair too big, we need a T9. Too hard to eyeball the size, and it can be fiddly getting the thing started. Same is true for hex socket.
> 
> ...


I totally agree.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Four_2 said:


> Hi all, I was landing and installing breakers in a panel last week. Everything is fine until I go to torque the bolts and seems like 10-20 % of the square heads strip out before I get them torqued. Is there a better bit I should be using that fits better? Or just torque them with a straight blade tip? Thanks


I didn't use a torque screwdriver, but when we installed GE stuff for a bit, the #2 square drive would strip out before the screw was tight enough to even hold the wire in on the breakers and neutral bar. I just did it all the old fashioned way with a straight blade and cranked em down. Very annoying.


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