# Ladder Safety



## susdron (Jun 4, 2010)

As previously stated, i'm a first year IBEW apprentice who is relatively inexperienced in the construction sector. One of the things that stands out in terms of safety, is the misuse of ladders on the job. Our crew is primarily running wire along the rafters of ceilings extending in the 20 + ft range. The only ladders they supply are 8ft & 10ft. I've witnessed journeyman routinely use the top rung along with the highest "step" to reach these heights. I'm perfectly comfortable using the ladder correctly, but using the ladder this way makes me nervous and uncomfortable. Unfortunately, this is a necessary part of my assigned job. Apart from the labels on the ladder, is this a formal workplace safety violation? Should I bring this to the attention of the contractor or my training director? Given the general hazardous nature of construction, i'm starting to see this as a dealbreaker. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Go to the training director. You have the right to work in a safe environment.


----------



## Buddha In Babylon (Mar 23, 2009)

Not only is it a safety violation, it's an OSHA violation. Not only that but it's a violation of your employers safety program which all employees must agree to abide by when they sign on with a company. Everyone knows you can't be doing that, and until your company gets you the proper tools to do your job, you need to do other things. Tell your foreman that you are willing to do any other task available except for using a ladder incorrectly to do that particular job. If it bothers you enough, call the safety guy in your company and tell him what's up. But before you do, you need to addrerss your concern with the foreman. Always tell the foreman first, about any damn thing. Your mechanics will ignore you, abuse you, and don't really care about you for the most part, so your safety is in your hands. They will call you a ***** and tell you that you will never make it in the trade if you don't work unsafe at times. That old school mentality needs to go the way of the dinosaur. Go home the way you showed up everyday.


----------



## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Second step from the top is the last one you are allowed to stand on.

You're a IBEW member.. Simply REFUSE! If they let you go file a grievance.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

What Buddha said, but don't make a huge deal out of it. Tell your supervisor you're concerned about it and don't feel comfortable working on top of a ladder like that. It's not that everyone is doing this out in the field. It's that your company is to cheap to buy the ladders for the job.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

although I do it regularly, I wouldn't if I didn't feel comfortable. And you shouldn't unless you do. And there is never a reason to do it that is actually a good one, the day I fall it will only be my fault.


----------



## susdron (Jun 4, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> What Buddha said, but don't make a huge deal out of it. Tell your supervisor you're concerned about it and don't feel comfortable working on top of a ladder like that. It's not that everyone is doing this out in the field. It's that your company is to cheap to buy the ladders for the job.


My foreman is a good guy. But his outfit is only doing this type of wiring. I can imagine that using the right equipment would be malfeasible, such as lugging a 15ft ladder through small rooms, or using scaffolding everywhere inside a building. With my experience and knowledge, there's not a whole lot else for me to do. Also, i'm technically not an IBEW member. So i'm not sure if I have a means to file a grievance.


----------



## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

susdron said:


> As previously stated, i'm a first year IBEW apprentice who is relatively inexperienced in the construction sector. One of the things that stands out in terms of safety, is the misuse of ladders on the job. Our crew is primarily running wire along the rafters of ceilings extending in the 20 + ft range. The only ladders they supply are 8ft & 10ft. I've witnessed journeyman routinely use the top rung along with the highest "step" to reach these heights. I'm perfectly comfortable using the ladder correctly, but using the ladder this way makes me nervous and uncomfortable. Unfortunately, this is a necessary part of my assigned job. Apart from the labels on the ladder, is this a formal workplace safety violation? Should I bring this to the attention of the contractor or my training director? Given the general hazardous nature of construction, i'm starting to see this as a dealbreaker.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Tell you what, if you were to come to me with that I would take you down to the ladder store and let you pick out whatever ladder you wanted.

We would put your name on it so no body would steal it and you could take it home with you every night. :thumbsup:

No, seriously, I wouldn't put anybody in a situation that may get them seriously hurt.


----------



## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

The money you earn is not much good when you're dead.. I took a spill off a under sized aluminum (tenant owned) ladder.. It gave me six months off and a permanent loss of smell and taste.. But I saved the company a couple of bucks by not having to go to the truck to get a larger ladder..

WORK SAFE OUT THERE! Nothing screws up your dreams like a preventable accident... 
.
.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Toronto Sparky said:


> The money you earn is not much good when you're dead...


Exactly. The old saying: If you don't feel safe, you're probably not. A fall from the top of a 10' ladder onto a concrete floor is not something you're likely to walk off.

I was once working on some new condos when a buddy pulled me aside and pointed out a stairway to the second floor. Apparently a painter had set a board across the stairwell in order to reach part of the ceiling. He fell off the board into the concrete stairwell. It was only a 12 or 13 foot drop, but he landed on his head and it killed him.

Bring it up with your foreman. Hauling a 12' ladder isn't a whole lot different than a 10' ladder, they're both a pain to lug around. And if you can reach it from the top of a 10-footer, then you'll be able to work safely on a 12.

-John


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

When you're tasked with working at a height above where a 10' ladder can safely reach, ask the person who assigned you that work where the 12 and 16 foot ladders are. When he tells you there aren't any, ask him what he wants you to do until the taller ladders arrive on the job. No need to make a huge to-do out of the matter, and I think most people would get the message.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

although a lot of guys don't hesitate to stand on the wrong part of the ladder, the fact is that something in the neighborhood of 50% of serious debiliitating injuries on construction sites are falls from step ladders. be safe.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

wildleg said:


> although a lot of guys don't hesitate to stand on the wrong part of the ladder, the fact is that something in the neighborhood of 50% of serious debiliitating injuries on construction sites are falls from step ladders. be safe.


I've read more than once that the #1 debilitating occupational injury among electricians is falls from a height.


----------



## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

wildleg said:


> although a lot of guys don't hesitate to stand on the wrong part of the ladder, the fact is that something in the neighborhood of 50% of serious debiliitating injuries on construction sites are falls from step ladders. be safe.


Wasn't as bad in the days of wooden ladders.. After all we used to joke it was the apprentice side of the ladder.. 

Most ladders had the round wooden rungs on the opposite side and steel rods running under them.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I knew two people who died falling off of a six foot ladder. All ladders are to be treated with respect. Proper heighths, and proper repair. When I was younger I was forced to step over a bad rung to get to the next. Those days are over and to the poster if you get hurt you WILL get the blame.


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

That is one thing I need to work on myself. I am terrible about standing on the top of a ladder. I've been doing it for as long as I can remember and it is a pretty hard habit to break. 
BUT in todays work place it is a big no-no. I have seen guys kicked off the job for it before.

I can't believe in todays law suit frenzied society they would set thier self up like that. For the cost of one accident you can buy a whole lot of ladders.


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I knew two people who died falling off of a six foot ladder. All ladders are to be treated with respect. Proper heighths, and proper repair. When I was younger I was forced to step over a bad rung to get to the next. Those days are over and to the poster if you get hurt you WILL get the blame.


 Come on guys, Admit it. We have all used faulty ladders at sometime. Of course they should be in the garbage. 

But what about those ladders that are sold as (for domestic use only). 

Can the average person also not have an accident from a piece of junk ladder? 


On the job site, no one should be asked to use a ladder that is not of the right height, or is faulty. On a previous post I mentioned that MOST ladders are made for only one person at a time. Someone thought that was funny, saying the other side of the ladder is for apprentices. Sorry, I don't think that is funny. THAT'S MY RANT OF THE DAY!!!!


----------



## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

Not only are you using a ladder incorrectly you did not mention being tied off with a fall arrest. So when the labour guy comes in writing tickets you get 1 for no harness and you get 1 for wrong ladder and you' ll get hell from the boss for getting caught and if they are doing these things wrong than they are probabily doing other things wrong so as a 1 st year apprentice you are on the right track to becoming a unsafe hack like your boss and all the others around you. Have a nice safe and prosperous career. Just a little tough love.


----------



## susdron (Jun 4, 2010)

sparky105 said:


> Not only are you using a ladder incorrectly you did not mention being tied off with a fall arrest. So when the labour guy comes in writing tickets you get 1 for no harness and you get 1 for wrong ladder and you' ll get hell from the boss for getting caught and if they are doing these things wrong than they are probably doing other things wrong so as a 1 st year apprentice you are on the right track to becoming a unsafe hack like your boss and all the others around you. Have a nice safe and prosperous career. Just a little tough love.


I've yet too even lay my eyes on that type of equipment. In my estimation, no workers on the site come close to following regulations. I'm not looking to start trouble, but why am I even in this position to have to raise these concerns? I'll bet that most job sites in my area function similarly in terms of safety. That being said, our safety director is failing miserably. Sparky, are you suggesting that I just live with it?


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

The fall arrester is not required everywhere. There usually is not something to tie off to anyways. As a electrician you should expect ladders in decent shape that are the proper height. You should also recieve some training on using them but most shops do not do that. If you use a extension ladder make sure the feet are secure. On asphalt you can drive in your awl behind one of the feet. Also tie off the top of the ladder. Outside in the wind you can easily have a un-loaded ladder blow down. I WON'T stand on the top step of any ladder if I can't support myself above with my arms, such as climbing into a crawl. Falls injure a lot of workers.


----------



## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

susdron said:


> ... but why am I even in this position to have to raise these concerns?


 
Your in that position because the JW's on the job don't want to make a fuss and risk being the first guy to get let go when lay offs come.

Don't ever do anything unsafe just because everyone else is doing it. You have to watch out for youself.


----------



## susdron (Jun 4, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> Your in that position because the JW's on the job don't want to make a fuss and risk being the first guy to get let go when lay offs come.
> 
> Don't ever do anything unsafe just because everyone else is doing it. You have to watch out for youself.


Agreed, but this isn't the only safety hazard on the site. No safety glasses, no hard hats, metal ladders, no scaffolding, people just perform work without looking around. How often do OSHA inspectors come around? I'm relatively unfamiliar with how a construction site operates.


----------



## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> Your in that position because the JW's on the job don't want to make a fuss and risk being the first guy to get let go when lay offs come.


That's very true. Things have changed over the years.

Call me an ass, but I am not going to lie. If I had someone take 10 minutes to walk to the other side of the job to get a taller ladder because they didn't want to stand on the top rung of a 6 footer to make one splice, I would put them at the top of the lay off list. The same for people who won't hook up a circuit in a live panel, or drill a 1 1/8" hole in a live panel to bring a pipe in. In the real world, they don't pay doubletime to bring workers in on a Sunday to do such a small task. Even on a Sunday, a shutdown at a hospital is a big deal and most see it as unnecessary for the things I mentioned. 

Sometimes it just is what it is.


----------



## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

susdron said:


> How often do OSHA inspectors come around?.


I've never seen an OSHA inspector ever. There aren't enough of them to go to every job. If you do see one,it's probably because someone called.


----------



## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> I've never seen an OSHA inspector ever. There aren't enough of them to go to every job. If you do see one,it's probably because someone called.


I've called for multiple reasons over the years, none came. The only time I've seen them is after someone has been killed on the job. Unfortunately I've seen that many times too many


----------



## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

Interlock said:


> Call me an ass, but I am not going to lie. If I had someone take 10 minutes to walk to the other side of the job to get a taller ladder because they didn't want to stand on the top rung of a 6 footer to make one splice, I would put them at the top of the lay off list.


I see where your coming from.I personally would have no problem standing on top of a 6' ladder if all I had to do is make a simple splice.The promblem that I see is when you obviously need a 10' ladder for several days and all they give is an 8 footer because the foreman doesn't feel like calling the shop to ask for one.


----------



## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> I see where your coming from.I personally would have no problem standing on top of a 6' ladder if all I had to do is make a simple splice.The promblem that I see is when you obviously need a 10' ladder for several days and all they give is an 8 footer because the foreman doesn't feel like calling the shop to ask for one.


That's a different story, and as a foreman, I would make sure a taller ladder was there the next day, even if I had to buy one on the way home from work.


----------



## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

Interlock said:


> I've called for multiple reasons over the years, none came. The only time I've seen them is after someone has been killed on the job. Unfortunately I've seen that many times too many


I wonder how many times an OSHA inspector has showed up after someone has been killed falling off a ladder.


----------



## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

Interlock said:


> That's a different story, and as a foreman, I would make sure a taller ladder was there the next day, even if I had to buy one on the way home from work.


I've seen so many foreman who are so scared of asking for tools for some reason or another. I guess they don't want to be seen as a pain in the a$$.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Interlock said:


> That's very true. Things have changed over the years.
> 
> Call me an ass, but I am not going to lie. If I had someone take 10 minutes to walk to the other side of the job to get a taller ladder because they didn't want to stand on the top rung of a 6 footer to make one splice, I would put them at the top of the lay off list. The same for people who won't hook up a circuit in a live panel, or drill a 1 1/8" hole in a live panel to bring a pipe in. In the real world, they don't pay doubletime to bring workers in on a Sunday to do such a small task. Even on a Sunday, a shutdown at a hospital is a big deal and most see it as unnecessary for the things I mentioned.
> 
> Sometimes it just is what it is.


You'd put someone on the lay off list because they took ten minutes to get the right ladder? Have to be honest I don't want to work on your job site.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

To the OP(original poster) like another guy said you have to look out for YOURSELF. Nobody else will in this trade. You're at the point right now where you need to decide if you are going to do this till you're 65 or if you'll be bent and broken at 50. Most of the retards you are working with fall into the latter category.


----------



## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> You'd put someone on the lay off list because they took ten minutes to get the right ladder? Have to be honest I don't want to work on your job site.


I said I would put them at "the top of the lay off list" which is different than what you said. I wouldn't lay them off for it, but they would go before the other guys when a layoff comes around.

Sorry, but that's life.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Interlock said:


> I said I would put them at "the top of the lay off list" which is different than what you said. I wouldn't lay them off for it, but they would go before the other guys when a layoff comes around.
> 
> Sorry, but that's life.


And you have a bunch of hacks working for you also.


----------



## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> And you have a bunch of hacks working for you also.


Not true.

I'm sure in your perfect, by the book world only a "hack" uses the top rung of a ladder to make a splice. But in the real world, some mighty fine, skilled, experienced electrician do it to.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Interlock said:


> Not true.


Retards that will work off the top of ladders are hacks. That's just a fact.


----------



## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Retards that will work off the top of ladders are hacks. That's just a fact.


:sleep1:


----------



## susdron (Jun 4, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> To the OP(original poster) like another guy said you have to look out for YOURSELF. Nobody else will in this trade. You're at the point right now where you need to decide if you are going to do this till you're 65 or if you'll be bent and broken at 50. Most of the retards you are working with fall into the latter category.


Thanks for that. I'm learning, relatively early in my career, that you never really know what your getting into, until your actually doing it. This is good and bad, in that I've tried multiple career path's, but I hopefully won't be stuck doing something that was avoidable in the first place.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Look out for yourself. You'll work for a lot of contractors. Don't lift things that are to heavy and don't fall off things. The crappy contractors like you are working for are the first to lay off. It's gonna be rough till we get manufacturing back.


----------



## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> As a electrician you should expect ladders in decent shape that are the proper height. You should also recieve some training on using them but most shops do not do that.


Here in Ontario training is mandatory and you must produce the card to say you have had training in fall protection before you are allowed on a site.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Interlock said:


> I've called for multiple reasons over the years, none came. The only time I've seen them is after someone has been killed on the job. Unfortunately I've seen that many times too many


I wonder why..


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Interlock said:


> Call me an ass, but I am not going to lie. If I had someone take 10 minutes to walk to the other side of the job to get a taller ladder because they didn't want to stand on the top rung of a 6 footer to make one splice, I would put them at the top of the lay off list. The same for people who won't hook up a circuit in a live panel, or drill a 1 1/8" hole in a live panel to bring a pipe in.


You do not deserve to be in charge of anything.


----------



## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

Interlock,your kind is ,thankfully,a dieing breed - and good riddance.Fortunately,most forward thinking (and lawsuit-conscious) contractors realize that that so-called foremen with your kind of attitude are a liability, putting them and their other employees at risk.I'm glad your type is being weeded out.When I'm drawing foreman pay,I wouldn't have you on my crew,and wouldn't want to work for you as a J.W. . But,boy,you sure are macho.


----------



## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

susdron said:


> I've yet too even lay my eyes on that type of equipment. In my estimation, no workers on the site come close to following regulations. I'm not looking to start trouble, but why am I even in this position to have to raise these concerns? I'll bet that most job sites in my area function similarly in terms of safety. That being said, our safety director is failing miserably. Sparky, are you suggesting that I just live with it?


No way do not except anything but safe. It is only a job there are others you have a right to refuse unsafe working conditions .Educate yourself and then you can help the others around you.
I understand being new but it is not an excuse you have rights and they have obligations where the law is concerned and if you get run move on and try agian. It will not be the only time you change jobs in this career.But do you really want to start out on the wrong foot by learning everything wrong anyways. However don't come off as a smart ass be very careful how you address the refusal and follow the right procedures for your employer when starting something. Agian know the facts and how to get them across call the hall they will go to bat for you, usually. sorry for the late reply I have been away for a bit.


----------



## Schultz134 (Jul 25, 2010)

I will willingly stand on top of a 6, 8, or even 10 foot ladder as long as I have something around me when I'm up there to hold onto or grab incase I lose my balance. That is the key to my comfort. If I am just standing in the middle of a room with nothing around me, I won't stand on top of those ladders. In my experience if your focusing on something you can easily shift your weight and need to recenter and lets be honest. There is no room to shift your feet once your on the top.

With all this said, since I plan to own a company one day on top of being a foreman, I would never call anybody a ***** or get angry about them getting the right tool for the job. 

Just the other day I had to chip out cinderblock with a Bosch Bulldog rotary hammer that has a just hammer setting. I asked my boss for earplugs since I would be doing this all day in small 12x12 rooms that were empty. It was loud and the echo made it even worse. Granted it wasn't the worst, I didn't appreciate being laughed at and told to stop being a ***** because I didn't feel like listening to my ears ring after about 5 rooms. Which they did. 

I think everybody has the right to work in a safe environment. No matter if it be safety glasses, hard hats, ear plugs, gloves, the right size ladder, etc. I think the contractor should have all those things on hand for his employee's.


----------



## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

I agree 100% with you on the ladder situation. It all depends on whats around you. It can actually be safe to stand on top, as long as you have something to grab on to.That being said, I would not expect someone else to do it unless they were completely comfortable with it.

As for the earplugs,I,ve been in that situation as well and it pisses me off when I ask for a 25 cent pair of earplugs and they act like your being a puss. I have deminished hearing in one ear from years of working like I was indestructable. I am not. I would have been better off if I was taught at a younger age, to work smarter not harder.

The best I can say about safety in general is to *Always *look out for yourself and to be prepared as much as possible. Make sure that you always have safety glasses, earplugs, and gloves with you ,even if it's the contractors responsibility to provide them. You can avoid alot of problems by being prepared in advance.


----------

