# Undergound trenching



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Depth is 300.5. 830.47(C) is about the closest I can find on the lowvoltage end. The NEC doesn't care how far apart they are.













Oh, and welcome to the forum!


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## Lithium (Apr 17, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Depth is 300.5. 830.47(C) is about the closest I can find on the lowvoltage end. The NEC doesn't care how far apart they are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Welcome to the forum.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

If this trenching is for a service, as opposed to e.g. an
outside feeder, and since you say Bay Area
in your profile, for PG&E look here:
http://www.pge.com/mybusiness/custo...ewconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/

If it's for a service with a municipal utility, check with
them.


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## Lithium (Apr 17, 2009)

This is not service. Construction is at Union City BART station. I did not find anything in "BART standard specifications".


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Back up one page and look at 830.47 (A) and (B).

(A) talks about a suitable barrier, and (B) talks about the need of separation for network-powered broadbandcommuniction cables, from AC cables.

Check the exception, and make sure that someone didn't slip in language mirroring the verbage into your scope of work somewere.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

You should really ask Al. The following pictures show a 5" for a 7kv POCO primary and three 2" Data/Comm and a 208y/120v feeder.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> You should really ask Al. The following pictures show a 5" for a 7kv POCO primary and three 2" Data/Comm and a 208y/120v feeder.


How does one 'Ask Al' when he never posts?


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> How does one 'Ask Al' when he never posts?


I'm working on it. BTW here is Al's butt. Notice the separation of different systems? Thats Al's design choice.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I'm working on it. BTW here is Al's butt. Notice the separation of different systems? Thats Al's design choice.


So burying Al and his butt legally seperates the two systems? And Al is fine with this?!!?!? :laughing:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Chris, Ref post 8 photo 1
You would not get in that trench for $1,000,000. That trench is not shored properly. OSHA could assess a fine from just that photo. No job is worth getting buried alive. Your operator needs to review stepping and and spoils placement.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Chris, Ref post 8 photo 1
> You would not get in that trench for $1,000,000.


Your right, I was in it for two days for $23.50 an hour. Don't get me started about the lack of OSHA enforcement here. I'm already in a foul mood.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Your right, I was in it for two days for $23.50 an hour.


 
:laughing:


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

drsparky said:


> OSHA could assess a fine from just that photo. No job is worth getting buried alive.


This is not the first time I have posted these photos. Our company has been in business for almost 40 years and we don't own even one FR shirt or a face shield. No one else here that is non-union that we bid against has a safety program either. It is heavy on my mind every day to say the least.

This statement is on the record along with my photos.

(just move along zog, nothing to see here.)


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I'm working on it. BTW here is Al's butt. Notice the separation of different systems? Thats Al's design choice.


Only in Florida can you use a snow shovel for trenching


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

walkerj said:


> Only in Florida can you use a snow shovel for trenching


Good eye, I didn't see that. Not my shovel BTW.

Is college football season soon?


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

It is always college football season in my heart!



I would like to start the "Get Al to Post" fund.

We can raise money and pay Al to post here:thumbup:

Edit: Al makes money and we learn about digging!
It's a win-win!


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well we do a lot of underground and i do meaning alot , florida is Class C soil its the worst you can not BENCH in florida by law . You must slope out the sides this picture would be different if osha was there .

Please dont be offended . lots of contractors in florida and other states dont digg per regulations . 

Now back to the op asking the question since ive been in the trade ive only seen the engineer 1600 specification make reference to spacen apart for other systems like power and data underground .Heres what is stated in most specs you can pass over power or data piping by one foot meaning cross . 

No power or data can be run together in the same trench unless its 3 foot from power or data . 

This is what we have been doing for many years but the specs are out of date engineers are using the old 1600 specs to save money to print new 1600 specs .We got fiber optics today!!! its not effected by magnetic fields so lets change it people . Take care be safe


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

walkerj said:


> Only in Florida can you use a snow shovel for trenching


I guess you've never shoveled snow, because that's not a snow shovel. That's a grain shovel.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Good eye, I didn't see that. Not my shovel BTW.


Must be Al's then. 




walkerj said:


> I would like to start the "Get Al to Post" fund.


 
Can we sell t-shirts? :laughing:


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

This constitutes a monumental blizzard in south LA


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

nick said:


> No power or data can be run together in the same trench unless its 3 foot from power or data .


For anyone in Fla. that cares, I have the FPL specs on a 103 page pdf. Separation from other utilities in mentioned and its 1 foot. PM me if you would like a copy of this.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

walkerj said:


> View attachment 1231
> 
> This constitutes a monumental blizzard in south LA


Is that your house Jason? Violation of 590.3(B)???


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Peter D said:


> I guess you've never shoveled snow, because that's not a snow shovel. That's a grain shovel.



Well yes i have shoveled snow lots of times born Edison New Jersey 1951 moved to florida in 1970 worked elect north worked elect south and dugg shale in jersey now i digg sand in florida and yes when i was in the trade as a helper we didnt have a back hoe we dugg by hand Peter .Take care


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Is that your house Jason? Violation of 590.3(B)???


Yes, and mi casa es su casa. 

That was months ago!

And no, they weren't up for more than 90 days and were all GFCI protected:thumbsup:


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Chris Kennedy said:


> For anyone in Fla. that cares, I have the FPL specs on a 103 page pdf. Separation from other utilities in mentioned and its 1 foot. PM me if you would like a copy of this.


Well Chris were talking on site digging not off site poc stuff just your normal duck banks on site tele and power but yes we know what your saying good point ! I know what its like in florida to digg Chris and the soft sand is costly ,most contractors dont have the equipment to digg deep . 

That sand really needs a trench box in a ditch but that would cost more than the project. florida soil gos from sand to that hard coral stuff on the coast . In florida Chris did ya ever hit them underground running springs 4 or 5 foot down and have water works running into you trench i hate them days ? take care


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

It's not uncommon to have water in a 2-foot trench around here.

Somehow the soil is still rock solid:001_huh:


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

walkerj said:


> It's not uncommon to have water in a 2-foot trench around here.
> 
> Somehow the soil is still rock solid:001_huh:


Well ya we see your at sea level too .

When i said hit water what i mean is we have running springs under florida and you hit them every once in a while meaning years but its a underground stream of water usally flowing north to south in direction and its bad ass pressure fills up your trench in seconds lots of fun pumping we use a well point system on most jobs that i do deep work for electrical were always under footers and 5 or 6 foot in depth . lots of pipes duck banks Take care


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> For anyone in Fla. that cares, I have the FPL specs on a 103 page pdf. Separation from other utilities in mentioned and its 1 foot. PM me if you would like a copy of this.


As shown in the photo the systems are separated by 2 feet. Must be twice as good as the 1 foot. OK, so the feet belong to Al, for this price you want good jokes?:jester::thumbup:


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Your right, I was in it for two days for $23.50 an hour. Don't get me started about the lack of OSHA enforcement here. I'm already in a foul mood.


dont be a chicken chit..:laughing:


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

walkerj said:


> It's not uncommon to have water in a 2-foot trench around here.
> 
> Somehow the soil is still rock solid:001_huh:


arent you below sea level? N.O. is a bowl in the middle of the ocean.lol


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

if you want to do some real trenching, use one of these babies!


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

redbeard43 said:


> arent you below sea level? N.O. is a bowl in the middle of the ocean.lol


 Parts of NOLA are below sea level but where I live is a whopping 10' above sea level. It is sometimes hard to breath because the are is so thin:jester:


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

walkerj said:


> Parts of NOLA are below sea level but where I live is a whopping 10' above sea level. It is sometimes hard to breath because the are is so thin:jester:


Well heres a electric room we started and you can see the well points on the top egde it was 56 feet across x 90 foot long the main electrical room 55 x 4 inch conduits 5 switchboards 5000 amps each it was a few years back !

But we cover to hold down pipes when its going to rain . http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt195/stringking/SKpicLL.gif Best to yas


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

nick said:


> Well heres a electric room we started and you can see the well points on the top egde it was 56 feet across x 90 foot long the main electrical room 55 x 4 inch conduits 5 switchboards 5000 amps each it was a few years back !
> 
> But we cover to hold down pipes when its going to rain . http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt195/stringking/SKpicLL.gif Best to yas


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

What in God's green earth was that giant, James Bond villain, world ending saw? THAT is exactly the kind of thing I expect to see in the end times.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Looks like a saw blade catapault. I think that it's located in germany for some crazy german thing they have going on.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Largest Earth Mover in the World 

Built by the German company, Krupp.

It is cheaper to build it so it's self-maneuvering, than to construct or reassemble onsite.

Specifications:
~ The mover stands 311 feet tall and 705 feet long. 
~ It weighs over 45,500 tons
~ Cost $100 million to build 
~ Took 5 years to design and manufacture 
~ 5 years to assemble. 
~ Requires 5 people to operate it. 
~ The Bucket Wheel is over 70 feet in diameter with 20 buckets,each of which can hold over 530 cubic feet of material. 
~ A 6-foot man can stand up inside one of the buckets. 
~ It moves on 12 crawlers (each is 12 feet wide, 8' high and 46 feet long).There are 8 crawlers in front and 4 in back. 
It has a maximum speed of 1 mile in 3 hours (1/3 mile/hour). 
~ It can remove over 76,455 cubic meters each day.(100,000 large dump trucks at 40yds. each)


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Largest Earth Mover in the World


So what do they use it for?


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

To mine lignite
http://www.olivepixel.com/misc/beast/beast.htm


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

This is the largest digging machine (or trencher or rotating shovel) in the world. It was built by Krupp and is shown here crossing a road in Germany on the way to its destination, an open air coal mine. Although at the mine the treads are unnecessary, it was cheaper to make the machine self-propelled than to try and move it with conventional hauling equipment. Some factoids: 

The machine is 95 meters high and 215 meters long (almost 2.5 football fields in length)
Weight is 45,500 tons (that's equivalent to a bumper to bumper line of jeeps 80 miles long)
It took 5 years to design and manufacture at a cost of $100 million
Maximum digging speed is 10 meters per minute
Can move more than 76,000 cubic meters of coal, rock, and earth per day


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

or here http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Trencher.htm


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

those are some awesome pics dagger, thankx 4 da link


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