# Wacky GFCI problem



## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Haven't seen this. Wild guess would be that a brown-out or spike causes 
something in the internal circuitry to lock up.


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## soe (Nov 22, 2013)

that's the only thing I came up with too. 

Maybe some sort of neutral/grounding issue upstream? But again these devices don't feed thru. 

I also thought it could be something inherent to the "self test" (if they even have that feature) .


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

soe said:


> I installed 3 customer supplied GFCI's. They were cheapo brand (smart electrician brand 15A I think they were the 'self testing' but I am not sure).
> 
> They were installed on 3 separate circuits. None feeding thru other devices.
> 
> ...


Seems the common denominator here is the cheap GFCI.
Do yourself and your customer a favor... put in a name brand GFCI.

Even if it was a surge or brownout, the fact that the other GFCIs were fine, still points to a crap device (bad run/bad design)

I don't do resi , but I wouldn't touch a job if the customer wanted me to use a cheap knock off PLC 
I supply the parts and install, that's the only way there is any guarantee !


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Off brand devices aint worth it. Get yourself some levitons or hubbells and swap out tge junk ones. Its not like they are big ticket items.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I would change that gfci to a better one..

I know few customers try to give me their cheap knockoff's ..
I tell them no warranty on them so tell the customer that you get a good namebrand that lsst much longer...


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## soe (Nov 22, 2013)

its easy to point the finger at cheap sh*t when in doubt but I fear there is another explanation. 

I could see one acting screwball but but 3 devices on 3 different circuits?


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

emtnut said:


> Seems the common denominator here is the cheap GFCI.
> Do yourself and your customer a favor... put in a name brand GFCI.
> 
> Even if it was a surge or brownout, the fact that the other GFCIs were fine, still points to a crap device (bad run/bad design)
> ...


I don't mind using customer parts as long as they're CSA or ULc
certified. In fact I like it. Means that if the parts fail I can charge
a service call, or time and materials, to fix the problem. Just make 
that clear to them up front.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

soe said:


> its easy to point the finger at cheap sh*t when in doubt but I fear there is another explanation.
> 
> I could see one acting screwball but but 3 devices on 3 different circuits?


I will say one thing about the assembly line ... consistency :whistling2:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

soe said:


> its easy to point the finger at cheap sh*t when in doubt but I fear there is another explanation.
> 
> I could see one acting screwball but but 3 devices on 3 different circuits?


That statement is actually further proof of the device itself being the most likely cause of the problem. 

Try ten more of the same brand on ten more different circuits and see more of the same results. Magic . 

We should close our borders to offbeat brands of devices before there are so many millions showing up all over the place that the makers of the good devices become over run and extinct leaving only a substandard broken down sorry assed excuse of an electrical system installed throughout the land................................:whistling2:


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## soe (Nov 22, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> That statement is actually further proof of the device itself being the most likely cause of the problem.
> 
> Try ten more of the same brand on ten more different circuits and see more of the same results. Magic .
> 
> We should close our borders to offbeat brands of devices before there are so many millions showing up all over the place that the makers of the good devices become over run and extinct leaving only a substandard broken down sorry assed excuse of an electrical system installed throughout the land................................:whistling2:


That's hogwash. There has to be explanation that is electrical in nature.

power fluctuation was mentioned and I mentioned grounding and the possibility that these are "self test".... if someone can rule all that out, I would be more willing to point the finger at the Chinese. :laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

soe said:


> That's hogwash. There has to be explanation that is electrical in nature.
> 
> power fluctuation was mentioned and I mentioned grounding and the possibility that these are "self test".... if someone can rule all that out, I would be more willing to point the finger at the Chinese. :laughing:


Um, how come we don't hear of such tales of Leviton , Hubbell, Slater gfi devices acting in a similar manner? If this mystery problem is specific to your actual location, then use a ''good'' brand and see if the problem repeats itself. When it doesn't, then you have your proof , and at no time did I point the finger at Chinese.........


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

since they were supplied by customer, you need to let the customer know before you return, that they are the customer's responsibility to warrant, and having you return to repair/replace is $xxx.xx dollars.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> soe said:
> 
> 
> > That's hogwash. There has to be explanation that is electrical in nature.
> ...


Yup. Start at the start and eliminate variables and wild cards. The junk offbrand gfi's are the most likely issues, and downstream devices still working fine says that it a nuetral or ground problem is unlikely. Gfi receptacles arent supposed to care about grounds anyway, since that is the listed replacement for ungrounded circuits.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

soe said:


> That's hogwash. There has to be explanation that is electrical in nature.
> 
> power fluctuation was mentioned and I mentioned grounding and the possibility that these are "self test".... if someone can rule all that out, I would be more willing to point the finger at the Chinese. :laughing:


I'd me more than happy to analyze them to prove it to you.
PM me and I'll set up the P.O. :whistling2:


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## soe (Nov 22, 2013)

OK, blame the Chinese then. 

So what electrical occurrence cause all 3 faulty devices to fart at once? 

I guess I am back to the brownout/surge theory. 

mwbc? loose neutral outside? then the self test feature kicked in (other gfcis in house are not self testing so no issue?).

Grasping at straws I guess for an "electrical" explanation. 

p.s.- also troublesome is they still had power when the test/trip didnt work.... so now they aren't protecting the end user until he reset the breakers and the outlets went green again.


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## WIsparky71 (Mar 7, 2015)

My boss learned his lesson a few years ago. For some reason he thought it was a good idea to save money by using cheap GFCI'S on spec houses. I think we ended up changing at least 50% of them. Any money he saved was lost in the first couple callbacks


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## Bay Ridge (May 21, 2015)

I had a similar problem with two customer supplied gfci's, also the smart electrician brand. They both showed the red light and would not reset, I did not try resetting the breaker. I told the customer to pick up some leviton gfci's , and they have been working just fine.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

soe said:


> OK, blame the Chinese then.
> 
> So what electrical occurrence cause all 3 faulty devices to fart at once?
> 
> ...


Yes, something caused the electronics inside them to go 'faulty'.
Brownout, spike ... poco line switching ...
Maybe the processor inside is running on a windows operating system:laughing:

It may never happen again ! 
I'd change all of them ... but if you want, change one out.

Next call from customer ... Hi, I have 2 GFCIs that have a red light :no:


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

soe said:


> its easy to point the finger at cheap sh*t when in doubt but I fear there is another explanation.
> 
> I could see one acting screwball but but 3 devices on 3 different circuits?


The OP said the customer supplied three cheapo's, and they were the ones with problems, "Three of these things are not like the others". And yes, it is easy to point the finger at off brand, made in China junk. Probably has a counterfeit UL listing label too. Not like they've never done it.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

soe said:


> Grasping at straws I guess for an "electrical" explanation.


The electrical explanation is that installing garbage electrical devices tends to lead to trouble. Why do you need to know specifically what the electrons did or didn't do? It's clear that the problem is related to the devices, so just remember that brand and don't use them again.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

soe said:


> p.s.- also troublesome is they still had power when the test/trip didnt work.... so now they aren't protecting the end user until he reset the breakers and the outlets went green again.


That's the part that 

A) Would concern me as to the safety for the end user 

and 

B) Makes me think the problem IS with the manufacturer.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

hardworkingstiff said:


> That's the part that
> 
> A) Would concern me as to the safety for the end user
> 
> ...


But more specifically the problem appears to be with this
manufacturer's design. Not a manufacturing problem. 
Not unlike the Chevy ignition problem that killed a few people. The 
parts were made exactly as designed but Chevy cheaped out on the 
design and then tried to hide it when people were dying.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

One would think a recall is in the works or horizon then Plugs....~CS~


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

I installed 22 of the Leviton brand about 2 months ago. Still no problems. I see the place everyday btw


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

soe said:


> OK, blame the Chinese then.
> 
> So what electrical occurrence cause all 3 faulty devices to fart at once?
> 
> ...


Its always more fun to try and come up with some complicated theory as to why some problem occurs. What I've found that works best for me when troubleshooting is starting with the dumb, easy to fix stuff first and work towards the complicated. 3 electronic devices from the same manufacturing lot showing the same problem speaks of defective parts moreso than some wonky power quality issue.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

PlugsAndLights said:


> I don't mind using customer parts as long as they're CSA or ULc
> certified. In fact I like it. Means that if the parts fail I can charge
> a service call, or time and materials, to fix the problem. Just make
> that clear to them up front.


Speaking of UL labels, the chinese pump out fake gfci's along with other electrical devices all day long .


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## transient (Jul 15, 2012)

soe said:


> its easy to point the finger at cheap sh*t when in doubt but I fear there is another explanation.
> 
> I could see one acting screwball but but 3 devices on 3 different circuits?


My dog pooped 3 times in 3 different spots in my backyard yesterday.
Today there are still 3 piles of dog poop in my backyard.
A piece of crap is a piece of crap.
The cheap GFCI's that your customer provided are crap. 
Install name brand products and charge appropriately. 
The explanation is simple: crappy devices.


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