# Staple NM to Cinderblock



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Cletis said:


> If your running cir down a wall furred out with plaster/lather can you tap a metal staple to hold your nm up against cinderblock keeping it 1.25" or more behind finished surface??


Why?:blink:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

You can do what ever you what in your make believe internet world


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Can you drive a staple into your forehead?


He will need a 32 oz framers hammer for that....:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Take a pneumatic framing gun. Load it with 20d galvanized ringshanks. Press against forehead. Pull trigger repeatedly.


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

Cletis said:


> If your running cir down a wall furred out with plaster/lather can you tap a metal staple to hold your nm up against cinderblock keeping it 1.25" or more behind finished surface??



How the heck do you intend on driving a staple into cinderblock? :001_unsure:


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

I believe im going to change my location after some of the post I've seen from this guy. :laughing:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Cletis said:


> If your running cir down a wall furred out with plaster/lather can you tap a metal staple to hold your nm up against cinderblock keeping it 1.25" or more behind finished surface??


If you predrill pilot holes you could.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Shane B said:


> How the heck do you intend on driving a staple into cinderblock? :001_unsure:


Just tap it with hammer, goes in easy. Ill take pics tomorrow


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Can you drive a staple into your forehead?





480sparky said:


> Take a pneumatic framing gun. Load it with 20d galvanized ringshanks. Press against forehead. Pull trigger repeatedly.


 
Ooh ooh ooh ooh let me pull the trigger............PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

Cletis said:


> Just tap it with hammer, goes in easy. Ill take pics tomorrow



So sounds like you've done it before, why ask about doing it this time?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Shane B said:


> So sounds like you've done it before, why ask about doing it this time?


Its the old pourous type indoors. Yes, plenty of times. Havent received a red tag on rough yet


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

Shane B said:


> I believe im going to change my location after some of the post I've seen from this guy. :laughing:


You are safe in Georgia.


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## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

Shane B said:


> I believe im going to change my location after some of the post I've seen from this guy. :laughing:


He is not from GA . Just don't change your location to Ohio .


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Shane B said:


> I believe im going to change my location after some of the post I've seen from this guy. :laughing:


That's why I have my location set the way I do!:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rollie73 said:


> Ooh ooh ooh ooh let me pull the trigger............PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.:thumbup::thumbup:


Only if you promise to reload. :whistling2:


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

8V71 said:


> You are safe in Georgia.





dthurmond said:


> He is not from GA . Just don't change your location to Ohio .



Thanks for letting me know guys.....


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Only if you promise to reload. :whistling2:


Thanks.......I'll reload many many many times.
:laughing:


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

jbfan said:


> That's why I have my location set the way I do!:laughing:


:thumbup: I like that


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Hot glue works.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Yes, no problem. I mean obviously you need to use the listed masonry nm staples, but it is done all the time.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

backstay said:


> Hot glue works.


Hot glue?










:laughing:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

eejack said:


> Yes, no problem. I mean obviously you need to use the listed masonry nm staples, but it is done all the time.


I recall a thread about wrapping an 8" piece of scrap nm around wire going down studs and determined its fine for securing. So, going by that the thing you use doesnt need to be listed ??


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

334.15 Exposed Work.
*(B)* *Protection from Physical Damage.* Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means
*(C)* *In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces.* Where cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running boards. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable installed on the wall of an unfinished basement shall be permitted to be installed in a listed conduit or tubing or shall be protected in accordance with *300.4*.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> 334.15 Exposed Work.
> (B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means
> (C) In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces. Where cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running boards. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable installed on the wall of an unfinished basement shall be permitted to be installed in a listed conduit or tubing or shall be protected in accordance with 300.4.


Yes, but it wont be exposed. Its in kitchen and will be covered with drywall


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Yes, but it wont be exposed. Its in kitchen and will be covered with drywall


Holding it against the wall sounds like a good idea, but I would use a small one hole strap & concrete anchor away from a stud, in case someone misses with a nail.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> obviously you need to use the *listed masonry nm staples,*



:thumbup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

How about NM stapled to masonary.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Cletis said:


> If your running cir down a wall furred out with plaster/lather can you tap a metal staple to hold your nm up against cinderblock keeping it 1.25" or more behind finished surface??


Did someone hit you in the head as a child?:laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> How about NM stapled to masonary.


Looks like Habel block not masonry block


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Looks like Habel block not masonry block


I am unfamiliar with the term Habel Block. What it is in my terminology is AAC block. Autoclaved airated concrete. I was able to drill those holes with a paddle bit in a cordless drill. A wood router was used to make the channel.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

Cletis said:


> If your running cir down a wall furred out with plaster/lather can you tap a metal staple to hold your nm up against cinderblock keeping it 1.25" or more behind finished surface??


I've done it and it passed. Nailed it in a mortar joint.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

I've done it before, and in the right situation :whistling2: might do it again. Don't mean its right though.


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

Cletis said:


> Its the old pourous type indoors. Yes, plenty of times. Havent received a red tag on rough yet


I feel like you should get a "red tag" on life.
My hate for you keeps growing. My hate for you reminds me of a clogged toilet. Here is how.

You do business, clean up, turn around and flush. Ah, relief. Like how every time I look at your threads, I feel like I can help. Little do I know a catastrophe is imminent.

Uh oh, I'm familiar with this toilet's flushing characteristics, and that level of poo water is not normal. Much like how I feel a little uncomfortable when I read the thread I shouldn't have read. You are poo water.

Fear builds as the water level rises, nothing you can do now, the plunger is in the upstairs bathroom. Like how no mater how stupid you are, there is not much I can do, you are too far away (I hope). Really is just watching a car crash.

Finally, the poo water level reaches it's crest, be that above or below the threshold of the rim. If it is below, good for you. Too bad it never happens that way. Like how I am always surprised how stupid you can get, only to be more impressed every thread. I hope maybe I can learn something from your thread, but too bad it never happens.

Poo water coats the nice floor of the bathroom. Uh, clean up time. Like how you seem to make a mess of every thread you start with teasing what your next move in stupidity will be. News flash, nobody really wants to know what you are cobbling together, just like nobody wants to clean poop off of their floor.

Ok. I feel better.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I just looked at Hebel Block. Yep that is what it is. AAC block.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

So your interview with mr. electric didn't work out after you told him about your conduit bending skills. Or lack of it.


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## wireman64 (Feb 2, 2012)

Cletis said:


> If your running cir down a wall furred out with plaster/lather can you tap a metal staple to hold your nm up against cinderblock keeping it 1.25" or more behind finished surface??


Cinder is alot softer than concrete ! Which are you dealing with ? Ever thought of surface raceway ? Wire mold ?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

wireman64 said:


> Cinder is alot softer than concrete ! Which are you dealing with ? Ever thought of surface raceway ? Wire mold ?


Here.. Live action photos right before rough inspection. How do you like last photo?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Cletis said:


> ........ How do you like last photo?


It's underexposed, soft, is off-center and has no compositional value.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> It's underexposed, soft, is off-center and has no compositional value.


Yes, but what about the white balance and contrast levels???


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Yes, but what about the white balance and contrast levels???


WB is on the blue side. Contrast... you could reset the black and white points. Maybe a reverse S in the Curve would help.


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## wireman64 (Feb 2, 2012)

Cletis said:


> Here.. Live action photos right before rough inspection. How do you like last photo?


Why couldn't you sleeve it in emt ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wireman64 said:


> Why couldn't you sleeve it in emt ?


Then he'd have to create another thread asking if it's possible to sleeve NM in EMT.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wireman64 said:


> Why couldn't you sleeve it in emt ?


Other than being Cleitis and ugly I don't see any glaring code violations and no need to sleeve it in EMT. 

Truth be told we do a lot of similar work although we would likely use a ramset to set a clip to tie wrap the cables to. Not much masonry takes a staple.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Here.. Live action photos right before rough inspection. How do you like last photo?


*Cletis, were the staples galvanized or SS?*

300.6 Protection Against Corrosion and Deterioration
*(3)* *In Concrete or in Direct Contact with the Earth.* *Ferrous metal* raceways, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings, nipples, fittings, *supports, and support hardware* shall be permitted to be installed in concrete or in direct contact with the earth, or in areas subject to severe corrosive influences where made of material approved for the condition, or where provided with corrosion protection approved for the condition.

*CONDUIT AND CABLE HARDWARE (**DWMU**) *


*GENERAL *​
This category covers conduit straps, *staples*, and similar types of hardware for installation and use in wiring systems in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC), and the manufacturer's installation instructions and the following information. 
The mechanical strength of these products is investigated with consideration given to the intended installation. Metallic devices are also investigated for *resistance to corrosion,* and nonmetallic devices may be for flammability and exposure to elevated or cold temperatures. 


*Also, were the ty-wraps Type 2S or 21S ?*


*POSITIONING DEVICES (**ZODZ**) *


*GENERAL *​
This category covers cable ties, cable-tie mounts, and similar types of related hardware for field installation in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC). 


*Type 2S and Type 21S* — Type 2S and Type 21S products meet the same requirements as Type 2 and Type 21 products, respectively,* but have been additionally investigated for use as* *primary support for* a flexible conduit, flexible tubing, or *cable* in accordance with the NEC. Such products may also be marked "Support" in lieu of the "S" designation

*Lastly, did this work pass an inspection?*


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Cletis, were the staples galvanized or SS?
> 
> 300.6 Protection Against Corrosion and Deterioration
> (3) In Concrete or in Direct Contact with the Earth. Ferrous metal raceways, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings, nipples, fittings, supports, and support hardware shall be permitted to be installed in concrete or in direct contact with the earth, or in areas subject to severe corrosive influences where made of material approved for the condition, or where provided with corrosion protection approved for the condition.
> ...


Great info. Ill check. Will know in 1 hr


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Cletis said:


> Here.. Live action photos right before rough inspection. How do you like last photo?


Is this for one of your heavy industrial accounts?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Take a pneumatic framing gun. Load it with 20d galvanized ringshanks. Press against forehead. Pull trigger repeatedly.


↑↑↑

Thanks I'm gonna use that.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

cletis said:


> great info. Ill check. Will know in 1 hr


passed !!!


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

HawkShock said:


> I feel like you should get a "red tag" on life.
> My hate for you keeps growing. My hate for you reminds me of a clogged toilet. Here is how.
> 
> You do business, clean up, turn around and flush. Ah, relief. Like how every time I look at your threads, I feel like I can help. Little do I know a catastrophe is imminent.
> ...


Best description of a Cletis thread that I've ever read.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

:thumbsup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Cletis said:


> If your running cir down a wall furred out with plaster/lather can you tap a metal staple to hold your nm up against cinderblock keeping it 1.25" or more behind finished surface??


Nothing but block here.
We zig zag it down between two furring strips and put kick plates where we staple it.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

*Cletis*

Did this today for you Cletis


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Cletis said:


> passed !!!


It's funny you're excited your disgusting remodel got its rough in passed. Glad I don't have to rely on that type of work to keep up on my alimony payments or whatever you got going


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

ponyboy said:


> It's funny you're excited your disgusting remodel got its rough in passed. Glad I don't have to rely on that type of work to keep up on my alimony payments or whatever you got going


Take a pneumatic framing gun. Load it with 20d galvanized ringshanks. Press against forehead. Pull trigger repeatedly.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> Take a pneumatic framing gun. Load it with 20d galvanized ringshanks. Press against forehead. Pull trigger repeatedly.


Is that the cure for cleitis


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I was assuming he meant into the grout joints and I'd say, sure, why not. I've probably done it.

Just saw the pics. Nothing wrong with that. Our cinder block won't take staples like that though.

The purpose of the staple is to keep the cable in place so it doesn't get damaged during drywall installation. I'd say the job is done.


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## toolaholic (Aug 13, 2010)

*Why be upset with these interesting threads ?*

Cletis brings color to this forum.:thumbsup:


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

toolaholic said:


> Cletis brings color to this forum.:thumbsup:


Because he makes me spend hours in the books to prove he's wrong:laughing:


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

Is this thread still going?


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Here.. Live action photos right before rough inspection. How do you like last photo?


 
The staple on the left in the second picture looks overdriven:whistling2:


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## toolaholic (Aug 13, 2010)

*Every forum needs ...................................*



Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Because he makes me spend hours in the books to prove he's wrong:laughing:


 A DOC MARTIN !!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Because he makes me spend hours in the books to prove he's wrong:laughing:


I did not see any violations. 

You did post the UL info about staples but that only applies if he is using listed staples. The NEC does not require the use of listed staples and most of the ones I get are not listed.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> How about NM stapled to masonary.


Is that some kind of Hawaiian pizza oven there on the right or does the dog dig da herb so much he needs a chimney?


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Because he makes me spend hours in the books to prove he's wrong:laughing:


See.....in the end he makes us all smarter. Maybe Cletis isn't a real person, but some entity from a far away galaxy spewing controvational information to keep our tiny brains exercised to prevent some future demise of the earth. :blink:

The only mistake that had been made is "it" thinks this is an Extraterrestrial Forum (ET). :laughing:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I did not see any violations.
> 
> You did post the UL info about staples but that only applies if he is using listed staples. The NEC does not require the use of listed staples and most of the ones I get are not listed.


Oh no, now you had to go and open that can of worms.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

LOL I agree with a bunch of you guys. Staples are the least of our friend from GA's problems. 

And, 220 IMO is right on. In work that will be concealed, we're all better off if there were no staples, after the rock is up.

But, as was pointed out Mr. C compels us to crack the books with his wild "can I do dis". No telling how many NEC changes he has brought about:laughing:


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## donselec (May 7, 2011)

haven't used a non insulated staple in a long time time


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Furring strip standoffs/stackers, not too good of a picture.


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Furring strip stacker.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Is that some kind of Hawaiian pizza oven there on the right or does the dog dig da herb so much he needs a chimney?


That isn't my house, but yeah, it is an oven. Called an Imu.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Last pic is what I do at 3 and 4 gang boxes.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

donselec said:


> haven't used a non insulated staple in a long time time


I've seen lots of wiring failures using steel staples that were overdriven in wood.

Driving them in concrete could be a nightmare


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## DMILL (Oct 26, 2010)

Rollie73 said:


> Ooh ooh ooh ooh let me pull the trigger............PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.:thumbup::thumbup:


We can all take turns!


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I've seen lots of wiring failures using steel staples that were overdriven in wood.
> 
> Driving them in concrete could be a nightmare


The whole cinderblock wall could be energized!! Good eye. Ill go take them all out monday before drywall goes up


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I've seen lots of wiring failures using steel staples that were overdriven in wood.
> 
> Driving them in concrete could be a nightmare



I have seen lots I would consider overdriven , but never have seen one cause any insulation failure or fault .


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I have seen lots I would consider overdriven , but never have seen one cause any insulation failure or fault .


Any pinch point is a likely spot for insulation failure, even tight bend radius. Lightning stikes are cumulative, it may take ten storms and two years, but overdriven staples, overtightned connectors, tight turns in LB's etc are where arc-over will occur.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Any pinch point is a likely spot for insulation failure, even tight bend radius. Lightning stikes are cumulative, it may take ten storms and two years, but overdriven staples, overtightned connectors, tight turns in LB's etc are where arc-over will occur.


Whats the purpose for using metal staple? I've never seen them up here on any new construction, just in the south. Are they listed for stapling two romex stacked?


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

wendon said:


> Whats the purpose for using metal staple? I've never seen them up here on any new construction, just in the south. Are they listed for stapling two romex stacked?


Ones I've seen haven't been listed but the manfacturer says the're for wood and yes Code allows eliptical cable (NM) two can be stapled, if both lay flat.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I think it's Hebel Block.


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