# Industrial Maintenance Career Advice Needed



## sethmeisterflash (Oct 29, 2013)

I have just started in the electrical trade a couple years ago and I am 25 now. I started by attending my community college for an Electrical Technology AAS, and will finish that in one semester. 

The last six months, I have been working night shift at a manufacturing facility as maintenance, not specifically electrical maintenance. We do everything, from welding, hydraulics, and electrical. 

I feel like a glorified light bulb changer though, so far. I run conduit and troubleshoot a some motors (rarely.) Change light-bulbs all the time, hand ceiling tile etc.. 

The pay is okay for my area, but I don't feel like I'm growing within my trade. I was given the opportunity to rewire a punch press the other week and I failed, I couldn't figure out the interlock on the foot pedal and limit switch. However, I know that I need to learn more and get more comfortable with controls and PLC's. I just don't know if this is the right place for that career-wise. 

I would like to expand into controls and be maybe a maintenance manager someday or work for a company where I feel like I can provide my family a better than average quality of life. How do I know when to look for a better place? I've been treated fairly where and given the opportunity to work while in school, but I feel like I am not learning or growing any. Do I need to just be patient?

Thanks for any input, sorry if this is slightly rambling.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

sethmeisterflash said:


> I have just started in the electrical trade a couple years ago and I am 25 now. I started by attending my community college for an Electrical Technology AAS, and will finish that in one semester.
> 
> The last six months, I have been working night shift at a manufacturing facility as maintenance, not specifically electrical maintenance. We do everything, from welding, hydraulics, and electrical.
> 
> ...


It depends on what kind of equipment you have to work on. 
The plant, I started as an electrician had both manual and CNC machine tools, bridge cranes and many electric hoists, all kinds of punch presses, curing ovens, conveyer systems and the list goes on and on. Just about anything that used electricity. Of course, more than my share of lamp changing.
It was made clear to management, that I wanted to work on the electronics and the more complex projects. :thumbsup:


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

It's great that you work for company that has supported you while attending school. Unless it's a union shop, I think it's common that a lot of industrial electricians in smaller factories do more than just electrical work. As far as is this right place for you to stay and grow? It depends...

Is there anyone at the company who currently does what you want to do? If so, try to work with that guy (even if he's on a different shift you can ask to assist on his projects). Is there onsite electrical engineering staff that can help support your desire learn? Were you able to learn from your failure on the punch press, either on your own, from a co-worker, or external vendor? If your company gets a lot of electrical assistance from external contractors, try to work with and learn from those guys.

You say you've only been doing this job for 6 months, but how long have you been with the company? I'd give it some time (while of course always keeping my eyes open). Are you on LinkedIn? I constantly get messages from recruiters on there who simply see my profile and are looking for licensed industrial maintenance electricians.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Well, are you putting in extra effort by reading and studying? I'll be honest with you. When a new guy says he wants to be in management, I label them right away. And the label isn't good. The first time I supervised was at more than 15 years experience. And then I was at the top of the "food chain" at the time. We all want to get ahead, but 6 months is way too soon to be complaining.


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## sethmeisterflash (Oct 29, 2013)

I understand that I need experience and am willing to work hard, and once I finish my schooling, I plan to continue studying on my own time to get better with PLC, motor controls, relay logic, hydraulics, etc.. 


I am very thankful for the opportunity I have to learn, I don't want to be in management tomorrow, but I do want to ensure that I'm making the best choices to be an asset to this company and any future employers.


I guess I could ask a couple more specific questions.

For those of you in an industrial maintenance environment with more work experience, what advice would you give to someone just starting their career? What are things you regret doing or not doing? 

I don't want a short cut to the top, because I'm aware there is none, but I do want to be one of the best eventually and am willing to put in the time and the effort.


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## sethmeisterflash (Oct 29, 2013)

Michigan Master said:


> It's great that you work for company that has supported you while attending school. Unless it's a union shop, I think it's common that a lot of industrial electricians in smaller factories do more than just electrical work. As far as is this right place for you to stay and grow? It depends...
> 
> Is there anyone at the company who currently does what you want to do? If so, try to work with that guy (even if he's on a different shift you can ask to assist on his projects). Is there onsite electrical engineering staff that can help support your desire learn? Were you able to learn from your failure on the punch press, either on your own, from a co-worker, or external vendor? If your company gets a lot of electrical assistance from external contractors, try to work with and learn from those guys.
> 
> You say you've only been doing this job for 6 months, but how long have you been with the company? I'd give it some time (while of course always keeping my eyes open). Are you on LinkedIn? I constantly get messages from recruiters on there who simply see my profile and are looking for licensed industrial maintenance electricians.


I have been on night shift and only work with one other guy who's background is not electrical. My manager is probably the one guy who knows the most and does most of the projects I would like to work on. There's also a looming possibility of lay-off due to lack of orders. So, I will be going back to morning shift shortly and hopefully will be a able to learn more and enjoy some of the faster paced reactive maintenance vs PM's and special projects that are not electrical related. 

I don't want to give the impression that I am unhappy with this employer, I just want to make the best career choices. I figure I'll stick with them until I finish school and then throw a few lines out. Due to my small town environment, I may have to take a travelling job with a vendor, do those jobs pay well? Do they offer a good work to family life ratio? Do many guys make careers out of that type of work?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

sethmeisterflash said:


> I understand that I need experience and am willing to work hard, and once I finish my schooling, I plan to continue studying on my own time to get better with PLC, motor controls, relay logic, hydraulics, etc..
> 
> 
> I am very thankful for the opportunity I have to learn, I don't want to be in management tomorrow, but I do want to ensure that I'm making the best choices to be an asset to this company and any future employers.
> ...


I worked in mostly paper mills. Trouble shooting was my game. I would make friends with the operators. They can lead you to a problem or if you treat them poorly, can sink you. Understand how systems function. When there,s a problem, use "all" your senses. Study the prints, get your own set on real complex ones so you can mark them up with notes. Look at symptoms to narrow what could be wrong. If there are 15 things that need to be right and because of the symptoms, 10 couldn't be bad, you have just made the problem much smaller. Don't be a parts changer. Know what to expect a meter reading will be before you touch the probes. Think Think Think. Then after 30 years, you will make it look easy!

I looked into manufacture trouble shooting reps(Reliance Drives) but they are so narrow in focus. You get real good, but it's all you can do.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

One thing I have found helpful is to read the information for each piece of equipment in your plant on your breaks while other guys are plying cards in the shop. Pay attention to the troubleshooting guides both mechanical and electrical. This will help you be a faster troubleshooter. Also a big +1 on being friendly with the operators.


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## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

Take a look at the machines while they are running correctly . Take notes of what the indicators are doing when it's working right . Don't just wait until the machine breaks to see how things work on it .


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I did this work for many years.
I do understand working the night shift gives little towards projects. For me it was putting out fires and trying to stay awake.
If you are the only electrical guy on this shift alone, you must have proven yourself to them otherwise they would not trust you to work alone at night?

This can be a good job for some and hell for others. What kind of product are you manufacturing?

Oh and remember this: Its always an electrical problem until the electrician is called out of bed in the middle of the night to find a chain or belt has come off.
I always hated the mechanical end of manufacturing. But did plenty of it.
In the deep south, there are no trades. You are a necessary evil as you make no money for the facility in their eyes.
You and the guy that sweeps up are no different until you show them the difference.

Good luck and give it some more time. Its up to you to change peoples minds. They will not do it all by themselves.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

sethmeisterflash said:


> Due to my small town environment, I may have to take a travelling job with a vendor, do those jobs pay well? Do they offer a good work to family life ratio? Do many guys make careers out of that type of work?


No most are not good for family life, Drinking and divorce are common.

My advice is stay where you are at; if they gave you a project you will get other ones. Not all maintenance jobs get that chance and THAT is how you learn and it takes time, classes can't teach you how to do it.. You said you could not get the logic right, ask for help here or at PLCTALK.net both sites are willing to help if you make an effort and show us what you did, we can say where you went wrong or lead you in correct direction.

Good luck Like someone said " learn the machines when they are running" then follow that on the prints. 
I always said " I may not know how a machine works but give me the prints and then I'll know how it is supposed to work."


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

the only problem with being a shift *maintenance electrician* is that you are generally considered a do it all man.
everything from changing light-bulbs to unclogging toilets, or repairing air and water lines.
most factories view you as such, and as an added bonus you can change fuses.
many factories take the approach of throw parts at it until it works!
don't fall into that pond as it wastes more money and time than it saves.

not to discourage you but this is generally how it is.

i highly recommend taking as much training as you can.
specializing in troubleshooting or panel building and designing makes you a valuable addition.
conduit bending skills come from knowing your math and lots of practice
speed is not essential but will come later with lots of practice.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

I have been in the trade 12 years doing maintenance and still have to replace ****ing lightbulbs. You got a long way to go.

Find a better place to go but make sure you work for the company and not a contractor or you will always get the ****ty jobs like lightbulbs.(that doesnt mean you won't get to do lights but it helps with other stuff)


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Jhellwig said:


> I have been in the trade 12 years doing maintenance and still have to replace ****ing lightbulbs. You got a long way to go.
> 
> Find a better place to go but make sure you work for the company and not a contractor or you will always get the ****ty jobs like lightbulbs.(that doesnt mean you won't get to do lights but it helps with other stuff)


Phew.. I thought I was the only one that loves lighting...


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Here's my advice.

Learn from your mistakes, but don't beat yourself up over them. I put on classes on VFDs and a lot of the people who attend ask me how I was able to learn all this stuff. My answer is always the same; one mistake at a time, but hopefully not the same mistake twice.

Yes, when you start out, you are given the crap jobs and yes, it seems frustrating at first. That's because a LOT of people will not put up with that and drop out, which means the veterans have to do the crap jobs, and they don't want to either. But they do it because it has to be done. So what you want to do is hang on until YOU are the veteran, and you can dump the crap jobs off onto the next newbie. It's always been that way and nobody will respect you until AFTER you have paid your "dues" in that way.

In my first industrial job, I worked for a steel mill and for the first 3 years, I changed light bulbs, bent conduit, replaced fuses and cleaned gunk out of boxes while laying on my back in cutting oil, all of this in a building in central California where it got to 110 degrees in the summer and 120 degrees inside the building all day long. Yes, I hated it and a number of the guys I started with quit and went back to residential work. But eventually they began to trust me to take on different projects and even though I made mistakes, they recognized that I was willing to learn. I gained experience that shaped my career for the rest of my life.


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## sethmeisterflash (Oct 29, 2013)

Thank You for all of the good advice and encouragement folks. I do need to read schematics of some of the machinery, but sometimes they've been so "Frankenstein'd" with all different parts and no new schematic, but I assume that's what will make you nimble on your feet as a troubleshooter. 



> This can be a good job for some and hell for others. What kind of product are you manufacturing?
> 
> Oh and remember this: Its always an electrical problem until the electrician is called out of bed in the middle of the night to find a chain or belt has come off.
> I always hated the mechanical end of manufacturing. But did plenty of it.
> ...


We build flat bed trailers for semi-trucks. What you're saying about the necessary evil of maintenance and not being seen as profit for the company is very true. With my company we hardly contract out many projects unless it's something big with concrete work or maybe a huge revamp of an old piece of machinery. 



> My advice is stay where you are at; if they gave you a project you will get other ones. Not all maintenance jobs get that chance and THAT is how you learn and it takes time, classes can't teach you how to do it.. You said you could not get the logic right, ask for help here or at PLCTALK.net both sites are willing to help if you make an effort and show us what you did, we can say where you went wrong or lead you in correct direction.


It was old relay logic, I have since then been brushing up on my motor controls and such and hope to continue working on these skills in my own studies and solidify what I was "exposed" to in school but not concretely taught. 

When school is over, I may try to moonlight with some automation projects. Do any of ya'll do anything like that for extra monies?


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

sethmeisterflash said:


> When school is over, I may try to moonlight with some automation projects. Do any of ya'll do anything like that for extra monies?


build portable micro panels. *good practice and neat little devices.
*
micro plc, ssd relays, fuse blocks, power supply, and terminal blocks on a small backplane 
these can be used for many small tasks and experiments


the smallest one ive built had 6 inputs and 4 outputs, 4 ssd's, power supply, battery backup, and fuse blocks! 
it could be programmed to run things such as traffic lights, pump systems, multi zone temperature control, and ventilation.

but i have built larger units that controlled carton erectors and inserters, and case packers ( made portable units separate from main machine to isolate them from equipment vibration)


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## IP-EI (Apr 7, 2014)

I've been in maintenance for a little over 5 years (International Paper). We always have the new guys changing light bulbs, cleaning MCCs, replacing receptacles and running conduit....but it's always the regular day guys, not the shift guys. We don't put someone on shift until they have proven they can handle it. 

I've been on shift (my preference) most of the 5 years, and I'm now the supervisor on my shift. You can really shine doing shift work, if people notice they never get called out of bed when you are there because you fix it without needing help. 

It sounds like you work at a fairly small facility, if you handle all areas of maintenance. I would look at getting on with a big company. I highly recommend IP, but any major industrial company should be about the same. 

And as others have said, always work for the company that owns the facility, not a contractor, or you will always get the crap jobs. I also second making friends with your operators, they make or break you. 

I learned a lot more as a shift guy then I ever did in the day crew, because there's no one there to push you out of the way and fix it for you. You have to beat your head against the wall and troubleshoot until you figure it out. Which is why I love it.


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## theloop82 (Aug 18, 2011)

I worked for 10 years as an apprentice, JW and Foreman before I decided to "retire early" and landed a maintenance gig in a medium sized manufacturing plant.

There are lots of guys here who have been here as "electricians" for a loooong time that really don't know what the hell they are doing outside of changing light bulbs. They cant run conduit to save their life, don't know how to run even a small job from start to finish, and think a 480v motor splice is 2 wraps #33 instead of just one. They don't want to get any better because they don't have to. Don't be that guy.

There are also guys here who never worked on the outside who are exceptionally good a troubleshooting complex electro/mechanical/pneumatic/hydraulic systems (which is a skill you are very lucky to get on the outside, usually you just build it and maybe have a bit of headache during commissioning) and I learn a ton from these guys. Maybe I can cut in an outlet a bit faster than them but they are definatley very skilled and employable as electricians. Just maybe not construction electricians. 

I am glad every day that i have had the experience of building stuff outside, it gives you a ton of confidence that "I could run that 4" rigid, I just don't have to anymore". But it isnt necessary to be a good maintenance electrician. For that all you need is the hunger to be better, learn more, and take on complicated stuff that the other guys think you are crazy to want to get involved in. Just show up on jobs where other trades in your crew are working and get involved with learning more about their work because often understanding the mechanical or plumbing equipment in a process is as or more important than knowing about the electrical. Read everything you can get your hands on. Take all the classes they will send you to. And even when you are swapping out ballasts on a 2x4 troffer for the 1 billionth time, do it well and don't get complacent.

Especially if you are looking into management, having experience with the tools on makes a huge difference. We have managers here who have never gotten dirt under their nails and they are running maintenance crews. The few we have with experience are pretty much always the best so if you are into management in the future more power to you. I couldn't do it personally.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

theloop82 said:


> I worked for 10 years as an apprentice, JW and Foreman before I decided to "retire early" and landed a maintenance gig in a medium sized manufacturing plant.
> 
> There are lots of guys here who have been here as "electricians" for a loooong time that really don't know what the hell they are doing outside of changing light bulbs. They cant run conduit to save their life, don't know how to run even a small job from start to finish, and think a 480v motor splice is 2 wraps #33 instead of just one. They don't want to get any better because they don't have to. Don't be that guy.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a man thats done it and got the tee shirt to prove it. Well said sir! :thumbsup:


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## sethmeisterflash (Oct 29, 2013)

> There are lots of guys here who have been here as "electricians" for a loooong time that really don't know what the hell they are doing outside of changing light bulbs. They cant run conduit to save their life, don't know how to run even a small job from start to finish, and think a 480v motor splice is 2 wraps #33 instead of just one. They don't want to get any better because they don't have to. Don't be that guy.


That's exactly the guy I don't want to become. I learned a lot in school, but I know that some things I will only really learn through repetition and physically putting my hands on these devices. Some things you just are not going to run into every day though. I think I've watched a PLC be troubleshooted once since I've been here. Aside from maybe changing some fuses or control transformers for them.

I'm a bit confused as to what ya'll are referring to as shift vs regular day maintenance. As far as I know we have a day shift and a smaller night shift that has less line call, thus we get more projects but our titles are the same essentially.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

gnuuser said:


> the only problem with being a shift *maintenance electrician* is that you are generally considered a do it all man.
> everything from changing light-bulbs to unclogging toilets, or repairing air and water lines.
> most factories view you as such, and as an added bonus you can change fuses.
> many factories take the approach of throw parts at it until it works!
> ...


I think that is probably how it is generally at smaller plants; however, larger plants are different. I work for a fairly large company (we employ 40+ in-house licensed electricians) and although we're non-union, changing a large motor out typically takes 2 trades; it requires an electrician to unwire and then a machine repairman to unbolt and remove belts then once he's got the new in we come back and wire it up.

At our plants we have basically 3 different electrician jobs: 
1. facilities electrical maintenance,
2. equipment build/install, 
3. and production coverage. 

Then we have all the other maintenance staff: machine repairmen, plumbers, mill wrights, fabricators, weld techs, tool & die makers, machinists, lubers, painters and building maintenance. 

Because industrial maintenance electricians are expensive, hard to find, and we have a lot of electrical related work we aren't tasked with non-electrical labor; it just doesn't make sense to have an electrician unclogging toilets when you can have the building maintenance guy do it.


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

I have been in maintenance now is my fourth year still with the same company. I love nyt shifts since its the only time you can prove that 
You are confident to handle a breakdown alone.



Sent from my HUAWEI Y330-U01 using Tapatalk


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## sethmeisterflash (Oct 29, 2013)

I notice some of you are journeyman or master electricians. In my state Alabama, I'm not sure if any industrial electricians are journeyman or masters. How can I get a journeyman's card other than working construction and apply for an apprentices card? 

I'm really confused about this and hoping some of ya'll can clear up what it means to be a journeyman in an industrial environment in a right to work state.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

sethmeisterflash said:


> I notice some of you are journeyman or master electricians. In my state Alabama, I'm not sure if any industrial electricians are journeyman or masters. How can I get a journeyman's card other than working construction and apply for an apprentices card?
> 
> I'm really confused about this and hoping some of ya'll can clear up what it means to be a journeyman in an industrial environment in a right to work state.


Michigan is also a right to work state... but electrical licensing requirements will depend on each individual state's laws and requirements. Look here for Alabama (see forms): http://www.aecb.state.al.us/

In Michigan all electricians must be licensed and the same journeyman/master licensing requirements applies to residential, commercial and industrial applications; the only specialty electrical licenses in our state are for signs and fire alarms.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

In our state, as long as it is industrial, electrician's don't have to be licensed or work under a master. The plant assumes liability for their actions. That being said, I'm fortunate enough to work with a master electrician to get my time in so I can get a journeyman license, but I'm more interested in controls and integration than full-blown electrician's work.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

dthurmond said:


> Take a look at the machines while they are running correctly....


 Definitely. A huge part of troubleshooting an unfamiliar system is figuring out how it is _supposed _to work: You can't fix what you don't understand.

Start looking at how components work and interact with each other. All these complicated systems are just huge groups of very basic systems.


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## Chrismcd (Apr 9, 2014)

Industrial maintenance is really not for the guy wanting to be in management. In reality it will take 5 or more years to even get a small amount of respect from most guys. Sales is easy to get in to management but doesn't pay well. So id say learn and learn then guess what learn some more. Get to the point where you're at the point where the older guys are and beyond. I'm currently in industrial maintenance I don't change bulbs often there's guys with 20 years experience that are unable to troubleshoot so they do that. So prove you can troubleshoot fast, repair properly and take the right steps i mean if you came to me saying you couldn't wire a interlock i'd never let you live it down 

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk


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## C_951 (Nov 4, 2015)

Either two scenarios can come of this, you show your worth and prove to the maintenance manager that your a dam good electrician and he moves you to first shift, you become the favorite, you get sent to all these cool training classes and life is good, scenario two, just like scenario one, you prove yourself your a dam good electrician and the maintenance manager decides to keep you on nights because he knows with you on nights he has nothing to worry about and knows that you'll take care of everything, out of site out of mind, you get stuck on nights for the rest of your life and never grow.

The point is that you have to sort of be a good judge of character when it comes to your surroundings, meaning take a look at your supervisors and your managers, do they seem like good guys who would like to see you grow in your career? or the complete opposite? I believe only you can make this decision as none of us work with you. I started at a manufacturing plant, i stayed there for 2 years before i realize that company was going to take me know where in my career, 5 years later now i work on SCADA systems.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Keep your electrical education going if you feel comfortable go for an electrical engineer ,Industrial Management 4 year degree(JRaef can probably give you a couple pointers about this). You had an idea of maybe moonlighting a little bit that sounds like a good idea. Keep an eye out for super good jobs and apply for them. Good luck:thumbup:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Something to consider ... If you can get on as an apprentice somewhere, It may well be worth it. Your just 25 with a whole career ahead of you.
I also have the technologist/Industrial, but the m&c/Industrial opens 'every' door for you.
I have done well in automation of water/sewage plants, but in my own business, the electrical work I have to sub out. 
Just my 3c


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## Tony S (Jan 27, 2014)

I’ll give just one bit of advice, learn the process the plant uses. If you don’t know what a machine is supposed to do you can’t fix it in a reasonable time. 

Downtime = £$£$£$


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## Jabberwoky (Sep 2, 2012)

dthurmond said:


> Take a look at the machines while they are running correctly . Take notes of what the indicators are doing when it's working right . Don't just wait until the machine breaks to see how things work on it .


Good Lord I can't stress this concept enough. Early in my career I was thrown in the deep end learning on machines that did not work. Midnight service calls to a place you have never been, there are zero prints or manuals, and the internet was just barely commercialized = hell on earth for a kid just out of college.

Now I work on the same equipment for months at a time. I spend every second studying and understanding exactly how everything on them works (all systems hydraulic, pneumatic, mechanical, electrical). I now spend a good portion of my day training everyone else and developing procedures. Unfortunately the down side is that when there is something they can't resolve I get a phone call.


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## Jabberwoky (Sep 2, 2012)

Michigan Master said:


> Michigan is also a right to work state... but electrical licensing requirements will depend on each individual state's laws and requirements. Look here for Alabama (see forms): http://www.aecb.state.al.us/
> 
> In Michigan all electricians must be licensed and the same journeyman/master licensing requirements applies to residential, commercial and industrial applications; the only specialty electrical licenses in our state are for signs and fire alarms.



Technically yeah to be considered an electrician you need a license but you can still do electrical work that has liability covered by a company without a license. I think out of the last 50 guys I worked with on electrical only 2 had a journeyman license. The industrial non-union environment is not nearly as strict as residential or commercial.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

sethmeisterflash said:


> I notice some of you are journeyman or master electricians. In my state Alabama, I'm not sure if any industrial electricians are journeyman or masters. How can I get a journeyman's card other than working construction and apply for an apprentices card?
> 
> I'm really confused about this and hoping some of ya'll can clear up what it means to be a journeyman in an industrial environment in a right to work state.


I worked for many years as an electrician without a SC license as its not required in manufacturing.
But I was calling myself an electrician, I was taking jobs titled electrician, my business card said industrial electrician, so I figured the least I could do was get licensed.
It also helped that I ran into an apprentice that worked under me and he had his license.
I got no raise nor did I start my own company even though I got my masters through the contractors association.
It still sits in my wallet, current, doing nothing but taking up space.
But I got it and I'm glad I did.

I just felt like it was important to have a license if you are an electrician.
Never know what the future holds.
Who knows, maybe one day I get to use it.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Takes time*



sethmeisterflash said:


> For those of you in an industrial maintenance environment with more work experience, what advice would you give to someone just starting their career? What are things you regret doing or not doing?
> 
> I don't want a short cut to the top, because I'm aware there is none, but I do want to be one of the best eventually and am willing to put in the time and the effort.


I have been an electrician for almost 40 years, 30 of them were in industrial maintenance. What I regret doing was starting my own business and getting away from maintenance for the 10 years, a lot of new things came out in that time now I am catching up ( codesys ). 
Just because you failed at the punch press don't give up. If the company is allowing you to try something like this, it is learning experience that is priceless.
If I'm not mistaken you came to this site after the punch press not during it, you could have got the help here if they are not giving it there.
Also remember a good maintenance electrician can make more money with overtime than most of their managers.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Jabberwoky said:


> Technically yeah to be considered an electrician you need a license but you can still do electrical work that has liability covered by a company without a license. I think out of the last 50 guys I worked with on electrical only 2 had a journeyman license. The industrial non-union environment is not nearly as strict as residential or commercial.


No, that's inaccurate. You can be a general maintenance guy, or engineering technician or something like that, whose tasks may involve electrical troubleshooting and minor electrical repairs, providing you meet the minimum OSHA requirements for qualified electrical worker, but you are *not* authorized to perform electrical installations. 

Your employer should be contracting that work out if they do not hold an electrical contractor's license and employ a licensed master electrician. If you look at the application for electrical contractor there are four different types, one of which is Facility Electrical Contractor (i.e. schools, factories, hospitals, etc.).

If a license were not required, Act 217 would include verbiage similar to the proposed wording in SB0358. In 2013 they tried to almost completely eliminate the licensing requirement for electricians in manufacturing and mining; however this was referred to the Committee on Regulatory Reform and never made it into Act 217.

The fact that many manufacturing sites employ unlicensed electricians does not surprise me, but that doesn't mean it's actually permitted. I work in manufacturing for a nonunion shop and we only hire licensed electrician since we expect them to be able to build and install equipment.
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## Jabberwoky (Sep 2, 2012)

Michigan Master said:


> No, that's inaccurate. You can be a general maintenance guy, or engineering technician or something like that, whose tasks may involve electrical troubleshooting and minor electrical repairs, providing you meet the minimum OSHA requirements for qualified electrical worker, but you are *not* authorized to perform electrical installations.
> 
> Your employer should be contracting that work out if they do not hold an electrical contractor's license and employ a licensed master electrician. If you look at the application for electrical contractor there are four different types, one of which is Facility Electrical Contractor (i.e. schools, factories, hospitals, etc.).
> 
> ...



I was working for a small company that repaired and installed drives systems and controls for about 6 years. I know at the time none of us had a license and yet the insurance covered at least two major installation failures. I would think if this was not permitted the underwriter would have a good reason to deny the claim. Unless this may have been considered a repair because the production lines already existed we just installed new equipment on an existing line. This would also explain how we got around installing an entire printing press and almost a third of a paper mill line.

At my current location we typically have a contractor run the mains and we install all the controls and cabinets. I do not believe I have had to handle anything bigger than 500 MCM or 500Vac/750Vdc. Lately we have the machine manufacturer take care of the whole thing to make it as turn-key as possible. Our capacity has nearly doubled in 3 years and we can not hire enough techs.


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