# Old School Union Tactics (For Noah)



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

It has a Local 103 address at the bottom. Are they behind this?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

When are the non-union companies going to get smart and start inflating a giant python to swallow that stupid rat? 

They're already doing that with the union market share.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> It has a Local 103 address at the bottom. Are they behind this?


Hmmm, maybe, the pickup truck did have a 103 sticker on the back window. But why would an electrical union be sooo concerned about restaurant sanitation that they would go so far as to try to ruin the business?? that just sounds crazy to me.   Aren't they too busy getting out there trying to build good will between the union/non union shops???


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Hmmm, maybe, the pickup truck did have a 103 sticker on the back window. But why would an electrical union be sooo concerned about restaurant sanitation that they would go so far as to try to ruin the business?? that just sounds crazy to me.


I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. This one looks pretty desperate to me. 

Did anyone turn around and not go into the restaurant because of this picket?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. This one looks pretty desperate to me.
> 
> Did anyone turn around and not go into the restaurant because of this picket?


None that I saw. There were people sitting in there eating. I almost went in _because_ those guys were there.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Yeah, this type of crap is exactly the reason I didn't join 103. It's like egging your opponent into a boxing match and then kicking him in the balls. It's just low.

-John


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Hmmm, maybe, the pickup truck did have a 103 sticker on the back window. But why would an electrical union be sooo concerned about restaurant sanitation that they would go so far as to try to ruin the business?? that just sounds crazy to me.   Aren't they too busy getting out there trying to build good will between the union/non union shops???


Thats Boston go do a service call in the back bay.

You will get a parking ticket and four flat tires .

You just have to work that into your price..:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

It did not happen

You did not see it

That stuff is all in the past

They are concerned about our safety


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I wonder if that inflatable was Made In America?


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Cute thread by escott, and also several cute retorts. I would only guess this is an invitation for my reply. Cute, now where in your thread,post does anything become productive and or help any persons at all? What you have shown us is a negative to which your intent seems to be also negative(double negative) Yes I have witnessed similar attacks(was this sanctioned by lu103?)some of these protest have been on a personal case(without the IBEW aware of it) Now in a few cases when a particular contractor has been attacked in this fashion by the IBEW, the said contractor was bringing in all or most employee's from other states(protest to protect local economy, not just unions) I am sure that if you had the intellect to make this post then surely you were already aware of this merely fact but wished to stir dry dog poop(hey what ever floats your boats) I do appreciate the personal interest though. I have been working an outage at STP in Texas, with limited time to hit this board and oh how I missed all the fun we have together. Now escott if you would spend just a fraction of the the time you wasted on this post by only trying to improve work conditions,trade communications,the poor and needy then Boston would already be better from that said effort. I do miss Boston though, I will look you up next time I come into town and maybe we could visit the eatery together?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Now in a few cases when a particular contractor has been attacked in this fashion by the IBEW, the said contractor was bringing in all or most employee's from other states(protest to protect local economy, not just unions)


we have out of town union contractors coming into out town because of the good economy. Should they be Ratted?

The do hire some locally but many are from their company's original area.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

brian john said:


> I wonder if that inflatable was Made In America?


:laughing: nice...... Its to bad that they have to be that way...its so childish that it doesnt even warrent a response...


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I have said it many times that I am pro union but I have to admit that that balloon embarrasses me. It serves no purpose except to make the picketers laugh. I don't believe that it can do anything else unless it is just a prop that the "higher up" union officials use to keep the "little people"...us, occupied. Sorry about that. On second thought, I am not.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

There are plenty of Union companies out there that acually have class. For some reason I cant picture Brian Johns outfit hanging out with the rat ballon....


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Cute thread by escott, and also several cute retorts. I would only guess this is an invitation for my reply. Cute, now where in your thread,post does anything become productive and or help any persons at all? What you have shown us is a negative to which your intent seems to be also negative(double negative) Yes I have witnessed similar attacks(was this sanctioned by lu103?)some of these protest have been on a personal case(without the IBEW aware of it) Now in a few cases when a particular contractor has been attacked in this fashion by the IBEW, the said contractor was bringing in all or most employee's from other states(protest to protect local economy, not just unions) I am sure that if you had the intellect to make this post then surely you were already aware of this merely fact but wished to stir dry dog poop(hey what ever floats your boats) I do appreciate the personal interest though. I have been working an outage at STP in Texas, with limited time to hit this board and oh how I missed all the fun we have together. Now escott if you would spend just a fraction of the the time you wasted on this post by only trying to improve work conditions,trade communications,the poor and needy then Boston would already be better from that said effort. I do miss Boston though, I will look you up next time I come into town and maybe we could visit the eatery together?


Noah.. this is one big lump of dog poop you posted here and I didn't even read half of it..

You need to break it down into sections like you are reading what I am saying..

Having one sentence followed by another and another is just plain boring to the eyes..

And it has nothing to do with union VS non union and everything with making your point enjoyable to read.. :thumbsup:

The credit card people use your method of posting because they know people won't read it.. "Terms and Conditions" in small gray print.. :blink:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I'm so confused by this. Can somebody explain? :whistling2:



:laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Noah.. this is one big lump of dog poop you posted here and I didn't even read half of it..
> 
> You need to break it down into sections like you are reading what I am saying..
> 
> ...


OK, Forum Mom. :laughing::laughing:


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

brian john said:


> we have out of town union contractors coming into out town because of the good economy. Should they be Ratted?
> 
> The do hire some locally but many are from their company's original area.


In our area an out of town contractor can only have 4 wireman from outside our jurisdiction. After 4 they can only hire out of our hall. It sounds like thats not the case for you guys?


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> In our area an out of town contractor can only have 4 wireman from outside our jurisdiction. After 4 they can only hire out of our hall. It sounds like thats not the case for you guys?


If they are non-union they can hirer whomever they want.. I don't know about the Union rules regarding that here.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

captkirk said:


> There are plenty of Union companies out there that acually have class. For some reason I cant picture Brian Johns outfit hanging out with the rat ballon....


Our local does not endorse these type of work actions. For the most part we have a very good working relation withe the local. They do put the men first, but consider the contractors as well.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

captkirk said:


> There are plenty of Union companies out there that acually have class....


 Absolutely true. 

We have a big renovation going on right now and we're using union electricians, and they are absolutely grade-A. These guys are friendly, they work hard, they don't play asinine games. We've had union millwrights in here who were the same way. The kicker: All these guys were all from out of state.

I'm prejudiced as hell against Massachusetts unions. Every single one I've ever had the displeasure of working with: Millwrights, pipe fitters, elevator techs, electricians, has been a bunch of stooges; guys with huge attitude problems and very unimpressive technical ability.

I have no idea what the hell is in the drinking water in the local halls in this state, but maybe they should start filtering it. 

-John


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Big John said:


> Absolutely true.
> 
> We have a big renovation going on right now and we're using union electricians, and they are absolutely grade-A. These guys are friendly, they work hard, they don't play asinine games. We've had union millwrights in here who were the same way. The kicker: All these guys were all from out of state.
> 
> ...





> I'm prejudiced as hell against Massachusetts unions. Every single one I've ever had the displeasure of working with: Millwrights, pipe fitters, elevator techs, electricians, has been a bunch of stooges; guys with huge attitude problems and very unimpressive technical ability.
> 
> I have no idea what the hell is in the drinking water in the local halls in this state, but maybe they should start filtering it.



Same here they are the speacial ones .


And if you Don't Know know some one and or are related to someone then they will stomp on you in a way that can and will be painfull.

I have been there ...:no::no:


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## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

Big John said:


> Absolutely true.
> 
> We have a big renovation going on right now and we're using union electricians, and they are absolutely grade-A. These guys are friendly, they work hard, they don't play asinine games. We've had union millwrights in here who were the same way. The kicker: All these guys were all from out of state.
> 
> ...


Could it possibly have something to do with the personality of the people? Those willing to travel to work (or those a company might trust to send somewhere) versus those wanting to protect their easy gig close to home?

I'm in the local here and seeing this stuff is just embarrassing.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> we have out of town union contractors coming into out town because of the good economy. Should they be Ratted?
> 
> The do hire some locally but many are from their company's original area.


Brian if you knew as much as you thought you did about unions.You would be aware of our contracts restrictions on contractors bringing workers in from other areas. A person makes a post about another's post being to hard to read would stand to reason as telling an untruth(you had to read to be able to whine about that said post) or perhaps you got something in your eye in the midst of typing,talking on the phone and ironing your socks? An unknown person expects another to start posting the way they do, just because they can not understand easily enough(and this actually make sense to you?) Thank you the exposure though. I think this thread would have been better served if the picture brought to light what we need less of to have better relationships within our labor communities instead of the ill will.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Demac said:


> Could it possibly have something to do with the personality of the people? Those willing to travel to work (or those a company might trust to send somewhere) versus those wanting to protect their easy gig close to home?


 That's an interesting idea. But I sort of think it's unique to the Boston leadership. I started out in Local 26 in DC and I didn't see a lot of the crap I'm seeing up here.


> I'm in the local here and seeing this stuff is just embarrassing.


 I hear ya. It sucks to see this reflect on the Brotherhood as a whole. 

I know I would do better financially in 103 than I am right now, but I would have to take up with an outfit I don't respect. I couldn't do it.

-John


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Brian if you knew as much as you thought you did about unions.You would be aware of our contracts restrictions on contractors bringing workers in from other areas. A person makes a post about another's post being to hard to read would stand to reason as telling an untruth(you had to read to be able to whine about that said post) or perhaps you got something in your eye in the midst of typing,talking on the phone and ironing your socks? An unknown person expects another to start posting the way they do, just because they can not understand easily enough(and this actually make sense to you?) Thank you the exposure though. I think this thread would have been better served if the picture brought to light what we need less of to have better relationships within our labor communities instead of the ill will.


Someone call the waambulance!

Noah,
What do you do?
What is your job description?

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

walkerj said:


> Someone call the waambulance!
> 
> Noah,
> What do you do?
> ...


:laughing::laughing:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Now in a few cases when a particular contractor has been attacked in this fashion by the IBEW, the said contractor was bringing in all or most employee's from other states(protest to protect local economy, not just unions) I am sure that if you had the intellect to make this post then surely you were already aware of this merely fact but wished to stir dry dog poop(hey what ever floats your boats) I do appreciate the personal interest though. I have been working an outage at STP in Texas, with limited time to hit this board and oh how I missed all the fun we have together.


Shouldn't they be protesting your working in Texas then also?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MF Dagger said:


> Shouldn't they be protesting your working in Texas then also?



They should be..


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

This was too easy. :laughing:

Thanks for the chuckle Noah. :thumbup:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> I wonder if that inflatable was Made In America?


 
That makes me think, I should see where my blow up doll was made.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Big John said:


> Absolutely true.
> 
> We have a big renovation going on right now and we're using union electricians, and they are absolutely grade-A. These guys are friendly, they work hard, they don't play asinine games. We've had union millwrights in here who were the same way. The kicker: All these guys were all from out of state.
> 
> ...



Hey John, in my view it's not the unions per se, it's the union members/leadership. Particularly in the Boston area. I'm from Somerville so I know the people in that region all too well. There is an attitude and intelligence level in guys from certain cities in the greater Boston area that is hard to describe but if you are from the area you know it.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Big John said:


> I'm prejudiced as hell against Massachusetts unions. Every single one I've ever had the displeasure of working with: Millwrights, pipe fitters, elevator techs, electricians, has been a bunch of stooges; guys with huge attitude problems and very unimpressive technical ability.
> 
> I have no idea what the hell is in the drinking water in the local halls in this state, but maybe they should start filtering it.
> 
> -John


I guess that helps explain the attitudes displayed by EmanScott, BBQ, Harry and others.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> Millwrights, pipe fitters, elevator techs, electricians, has been a bunch of stooges; guys with huge attitude problems



To add to that, I have found if I am working with one of these guys one on one all that crap will be dropped and we will work together fine, get along etc.

As soon other 'members' walk in it is right back to treating me like I am crap on their shoe.  

I hate two faced SOBs.




hardworkingstiff said:


> I guess that helps explain the attitudes displayed by EmanScott, BBQ, Harry and others.



I was thinking the same thing. :laughing::laughing:


I am very willing to believe that it is not the same everywhere, if there is anything being on the forums has taught me it is that America is very different from one area to the next.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> I know the people in that region all too well. There is an attitude and intelligence level in guys from certain cities in the greater Boston area that is hard to describe but if you are from the area you know it.


I am choking on my coffee!:laughing:


(BTW, it ain't just the guys from there:whistling2


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

From the Boston area, union or non-union, they're all frick'en Massholes.:jester:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

drsparky said:


> From the Boston area, union or non-union, they're all frick'en Massholes.:jester:



LMAO!!!!


Its so funny cause it's true ....... :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Brian if you knew as much as you thought you did about unions.You would be aware of our contracts restrictions on contractors bringing workers in from other areas. A person makes a post about another's post being to hard to read would stand to reason as telling an untruth(you had to read to be able to whine about that said post) or perhaps you got something in your eye in the midst of typing,talking on the phone and ironing your socks? An unknown person expects another to start posting the way they do, just because they can not understand easily enough(and this actually make sense to you?) Thank you the exposure though. I think this thread would have been better served if the picture brought to light what we need less of to have better relationships within our labor communities instead of the ill will.


Noah, I only know what I see. You are one man, on one side of a contentious issue. I try to see with eye wide open. You see with blinders on, no matter how hard you try to present your opinion as be fair open. You post mean are way to bias and therefore mean NOTHING, to most. You do carry the die hards but they are a vanishing entity in the labor pool.

Your continual support of unions without admitting there are issues nullifies anything you might try to present in this forum. You have never admitted once there are issues with the union.

In the 1950 close to 46% of workers were union, today....11.8%. One half of that percentage is public service. So we have a very small 6%. (Source The Washington Post). Obviously the unions are doing something wrong. I have tried to present to you some of these issues.

BUT MEMBERS LIKE YOU ARE THE ISSUE. To blind, to arrogant, to pig headed to admit something must be done to turn this downhill slide around. You and your type will ultimately be responsible for killing the union.

What Seems to get under your skin? You seem to be upset that someone posted the truth? 

As for contract restrictions. SO WHAT, contractors see other contractors coming into their area in bad times the same way union members see men jumping the bench, or travelers taking the few jobs available. YOU WOULD NOT LIKE IT. You would be in your typical cry baby, BROTHER, BROTHER, BROTHER. 

For me out of state contractors help my business as they need my service as much as instate contractors. But my friends that are contractors are not happy about it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

walkerj said:


> Noah,
> What do you do?
> What is your job description?


How about it Noah?

What do you do?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Separate post for clarity.

You and I will never agree. We stand on different sides of issue that has been going on since man began working for other men.

Me I run a union shop, because I think it is best for my men, it offers little to me. I try to be open minded and if you read my post you will see, across the board I try to be fair to union and open shop alike. I do not think either side has a corner on quality. I do think the union has pay and benefits most open shop men will never see and if they do they get these benefits they generally are not transferable.

I have asked you over and over to post what being union does for a small contractor and in the typical Noah fashion you lay down 20 lines of BS, you avoid the real questions YOU DO NOT,or CANNOT answer this question.

I do not care if you cannot come up with a legitimate answer, but if you cannot answer this question with a REAL ANSWER, not your typical BS. Then the IBEW will continue to lose membership. And in my opinion that would be bad for all of us.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> Hey John, in my view it's not the unions per se, it's the union members/leadership. Particularly in the Boston area. I'm from Somerville so I know the people in that region all too well. There is an attitude and intelligence level in guys from certain cities in the greater Boston area that is hard to describe but if you are from the area you know it.


 
So what your saying in a nutshell is the problem is with Noah himself because we all know he is not a union worker but in leadership position.


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

brian john said:


> I have asked you over and over to post what being union does for a small contractor and in the typical Noah fashion you lay down 20 lines of BS, you avoid the real questions YOU DO NOT,or CANNOT answer this question.


And those lines he lays down (without answering the questions) doesn't have a single space between them. 

Roger


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

I have said it before, and will agian. I have seen these BS tactics used from inside and outside a union. Not exclusively the Ibew, but carpenters, boilermakes, etc. It's like being in the 3rd grade all over agian, playground rules. I will never agian let my money support this BS thuggery. I will no longer work harder to cover for lazy pieces of $h#t because he is a "brother". I will never work union agian, I don't give a damn how much it pays.


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> I will no longer work harder to cover for lazy pieces of $h#t because he is a "brother". I will never work union agian, I don't give a damn how much it pays.


I am in agreement with this but why let those losers win. You are totally correct but they are still winning because you left. I prefer to run the jobs and run off the slackers.


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

If that were the only problem. I have known guys that were strong armed after speaking up at meetings. i have been told flat out, we will not help you because you are a good worker, we are saving our clout to defend the drunk that can barely show up to work. I have had a steward that I helped keep his job, turn on me once he made steward. Watched him use his position to avoid work. Screw people over just to justify his own job. It is broken beyond fixing. If you make progress fixing your local, eventually the boys in the black car will show up to have a "talk". F___ the union. I will do everything in my power to discourage people from joining or hiring them.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> we have out of town union contractors coming into out town because of the good economy. Should they be Ratted?
> 
> The do hire some locally but many are from their company's original area.


I was just comparing ourselves with a coworker to that of the Mexican workers. Traveling long distances for low pay just to work. It really blew his mind. Philly rats have effectively infiltrated MD, WV, and VA.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

These posts are: :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

drsparky said:


> From the Boston area, union or non-union, they're all frick'en Massholes.:jester:


 :laughing: :laughing: :thumbup: That's exactly the problem!


brian john said:


> ...Then the IBEW will continue to lose membership. And in my opinion that would be bad for all of us.


 I do agree with this.

-John


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Saw the rat at a local subdivision 2 weeks ago. Seems they are concerned about the loss of wet land. 

But what got me was a story in today's paper about an 80yo electrician getting ready to go to Afghanistan for work. His wife is bed ridden and he has no insurance. 
After 60 years in the trade & a IBEW dues paying member he is left out to dry. I'm sure this two tour Nam vet knows he won't make it home and the heat will kill him. But I'm sure he is doing what he has to do to care for his wife. 

I believe in the power unions can have, but were are they when you need them most?

Was Andrew Carnegie right so many years ago?


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah, I only know what I see. You are one man, on one side of a contentious issue. I try to see with eye wide open. You see with blinders on, no matter how hard you try to present your opinion as be fair open. You post mean are way to bias and therefore mean NOTHING, to most. You do carry the die hards but they are a vanishing entity in the labor pool.
> 
> Your continual support of unions without admitting there are issues nullifies anything you might try to present in this forum. You have never admitted once there are issues with the union.
> 
> ...


Brian I do admit that there are several problems within the IBEW, many of which I protest against(in several ways)(I should have expected that tactic from you though) I have no problem with the TRUTH but when someone takes a picture of a wrong(yes once again the IBEW has faults) with no true good intentions, then I say that is negative and will not lead to much of anything good. I do not rally for those whom claim to fame are they have a yellow ticket or in your claim to be a union contractor as a good cause, but the ideals of what the unions were created for(to help all working class) and do champion those who make true sacrifices to help our fellow workers. I am a journeyman wireman who makes a living plying the trade but will make personal efforts if for a good cause. Now Brian you claim to make your living off the labors of others yet you accuse me of being blind and having an ego problem(really) I will admit to being pig headed(I will fight for what I believe in till the end) I do not agree with negative actions(such as the blow up rat,I suspect made in China) I do not like putting others down because they are not part of a union(many have not been given that opportunity) by calling 
them names. As I have posted before if you go looking for black, you will find black.Why not look for answers to our problems , instead of finding a dry turd and trying to goad others to stir up that aroma?Oh before I forget, yes in Texas I was one of a very few who were allowed by contract to be working at that said nuclear generation plant from outside the area(so I was there as the tramp invader) Please enjoy life while its available.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Brian I do admit that there are several problems within the IBEW, many of which I protest against(in several ways)(I should have expected that tactic from you though) I have no problem with the TRUTH but when someone takes a picture of a wrong(yes once again the IBEW has faults) with no true good intentions, then I say that is negative and will not lead to much of anything good. I do not rally for those whom claim to fame are they have a yellow ticket or in your claim to be a union contractor as a good cause, but the ideals of what the unions were created for(to help all working class) and do champion those who make true sacrifices to help our fellow workers. I am a journeyman wireman who makes a living plying the trade but will make personal efforts if for a good cause. Now Brian you claim to make your living off the labors of others yet you accuse me of being blind and having an ego problem(really) I will admit to being pig headed(I will fight for what I believe in till the end) I do not agree with negative actions(such as the blow up rat,I suspect made in China) I do not like putting others down because they are not part of a union(many have not been given that opportunity) by calling 
them names. As I have posted before if you go looking for black, you will find black.Why not look for answers to our problems , instead of finding a dry turd and trying to goad others to stir up that aroma?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> That makes me think, I should see where my blow up doll was made.


Well, you did get the asian didn't you.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

I get sick of people saying union guys are slow and don't work quickly etc. Thats the biggest line of BS. The guys who are dont stay working. Everyjob I've been on they keep the producers and lay off the trouble makers.

Every time I read that I laugh because it doesnt have the slightest bit of truth to it.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> I get sick of people saying union guys are slow and don't work quickly etc. Thats the biggest line of BS. The guys who are dont stay working. Everyjob I've been on they keep the producers and lay off the trouble makers.
> 
> Every time I read that I laugh because it doesnt have the slightest bit of truth to it.


Your funny.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> I get sick of people saying union guys are slow and don't work quickly etc. Thats the biggest line of BS. The guys who are dont stay working. Everyjob I've been on they keep the producers and lay off the trouble makers.
> 
> Every time I read that I laugh because it doesnt have the slightest bit of truth to it.


 
This post is dildos


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

brian john said:


> I wonder if that inflatable was Made In America?



It is... non-union though.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fsb/0705/gallery.inflated.fsb/index.html


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> This post is dildos


Contractors will not keep someone on who just stands around all day. Disagree with me if you want but I and nearly everyone I've worked with shows up every day on time and ready to work. We get alot done and dont have to hack it in to produce.

No need to run if you work with your head and are efficient. I'd bet money I can get it in just as quick and do just as good of a job if not better then any open shop guy.

At the end of the day I go home happy knowing that I worked hard kept busy and I was worth every dollar I got paid and more. Most of the Union brothers in my local are just like that.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> Contractors will not keep someone on who just stands around all day. Disagree with me if you want but I and nearly everyone I've worked with shows up every day on time and ready to work. We get alot done and dont have to hack it in to produce.
> t.


Not picking on you and your limited experience but as an apprentice you still have a lot to see. In my experience open shop or union on large jobs, there are always some who are slackers and can hide and fiddle the day away every so often. On medium to small jobs this is not happening anywhere (unless it is the bosses son).

You slack on a medium to size to small project and someone else is carrying your weight.


----------



## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

brian john said:


> Not picking on you and your limited experience but as an apprentice you still have a lot to see. In my experience open shop or union on large jobs, there are always some who are slackers and can hide and fiddle the day away every so often. On medium to small jobs this is not happening anywhere (unless it is the bosses son).
> 
> You slack on a medium to size to small project and someone else is carrying your weight.


I have been on some larger jobs but just like you said union and non union have good and bad. I would be more then happy to kick those guys out of the trade if possible. It gives us a bad name.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> I have been on some larger jobs but just like you said union and non union have good and bad. I would be more then happy to kick those guys out of the trade if possible. It gives us a bad name.


 
Your an apprentice??? Now your post is double dildos !!!!

How old are you? Like 21? 22?


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Cute thread by escott, and also several cute retorts. I would only guess this is an invitation for my reply. Cute, now where in your thread,post does anything become productive and or help any persons at all? What you have shown us is a negative to which your intent seems to be also negative(double negative) Yes I have witnessed similar attacks(was this sanctioned by lu103?)some of these protest have been on a personal case(without the IBEW aware of it) Now in a few cases when a particular contractor has been attacked in this fashion by the IBEW, the said contractor was bringing in all or most employee's from other states(protest to protect local economy, not just unions) I am sure that if you had the intellect to make this post then surely you were already aware of this merely fact but wished to stir dry dog poop(hey what ever floats your boats) I do appreciate the personal interest though. I have been working an outage at STP in Texas, with limited time to hit this board and oh how I missed all the fun we have together. Now escott if you would spend just a fraction of the the time you wasted on this post by only trying to improve work conditions,trade communications,the poor and needy then Boston would already be better from that said effort. I do miss Boston though, I will look you up next time I come into town and maybe we could visit the eatery together?


Cute dread by escott, and also several cute reto'ts. ah' would only guess dis be an invitashun fo' mah' reply. Slap mah fro! Cute, now where in yo' dread,post duz nuthin become productive and o' help any sucka's at all? Whut ya' gots shown us be a negative t'which yo' intent seems t'be also negative(double negative) Yeah dude I gots witnessed similar attacks(wuz dis sancshuned by lu103?)some uh dese protest gots been on some sucka'al case(widout da damn IBEW aware uh it) Now in some few cases when some particular contracto' gots been attacked in dis fashion by de IBEW, de said contracto' wuz brin'in' in all o' most employee's fum oda' states(protest t'protect local economy, not plum unions) ah' am sho' man dat if ya' had da damn intellect t'make dis post den sho' manly ya' wuz already aware uh dis merely fact but wished t'stir dry dog poop(hey whut eva' floats yo' boats) ah' do appreciate da damn sucka'al interest dough. Lop some boogie. ah' have been wo'kin' an outage at STP in Texas, wid limited time t'hit dis bo'd and oh how ah' missed all de fun we gots'tageder. Ah be baaad... Now escott if ya' would spend plum a fracshun uh de da damn time ya' wuzted on dis post by only tryin' t'improve wo'k condishuns,trade communicashuns,de poo' and needy den Boston would already be betta' from dat said effo't. Man! ah' do miss Boston dough, ah' gots'ta look ya' down next time ah' come into town and maybe we could visit da damn eatery togeder?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> I have been on some larger jobs but just like you said union and non union have good and bad. I would be more then happy to kick those guys out of the trade if possible. It gives us a bad name.


Takes all kinds and they exist in every profession.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I WISH stuff like this happened around here. 

All in all I think we get along well with the labor unions in this area. 

I would think a hardcore union man would sit on the bench at home to free up some jobs in other people's home locals instead of traveling half way across the country?

A business (also known as enterprise or firm) is an organization designed to provide goods, services, or both to consumers. Businesses are predominant in capitalist economies, in which most of them are privately owned and formed to earn profit to increase the wealth of their OWNERS.

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

walkerj said:


> formed to earn profit to increase the wealth of their OWNERS.



And that sounds like music to my ears.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

brian john said:


> And that sounds like music to my ears.


Mr Gaquin,

I know it does!
The bottom line is, without business owners, union or not, we would all be unemployed (including govt employees; no tax revenue)
YOU took the risk therefore YOU should get the profit. 

And I am an EMPLOYEE of sound mind.

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


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## Sparky208 (Feb 25, 2011)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> I'd bet money I can get it in just as quick and do just as good of a job if not better then any open shop guy.


Your only an apprentice? If you really think this you have a lot to learn.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

walkerj said:


> Mr Gaquin,
> 
> I know it does!
> The bottom line is, without business owners, union or not, we would all be unemployed (including govt employees; no tax revenue)
> ...


 did you tell your boss you would not accept any pay over minimum wage?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> did you tell your boss you would not accept any pay over minimum wage?


Minimum wage was a union idea (I THINK).


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> did you tell your boss you would not accept any pay over minimum wage?


No sir. 
What I am payed is between me and my boss. Years of experience, dues paid, and all that nonsense means nothing in business. 
Money matters. 
You should know this being a small business owner.

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

walkerj said:


> Mr Gaquin,
> 
> I know it does!
> The bottom line is, without business owners, union or not, we would all be unemployed (including govt employees; no tax revenue)
> ...


Employees don't have to be an expense. They can be, but they don't have to be.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> Employees don't have to be an expense. They can be, but they don't have to be.


I couldn't agree with you more. Many are an expense, though. 

That's why what I am payed is between me and my boss. 
If I turn a profit of $xxx,xxx I get my salary plus $xx,xxx. ( not real x's)

So I try to turn as much profit as I can because it is beneficial to the owner, the business, and myself. 

The labor lemmings can work work work all day but there has to be someone there to tell them what to do!
If said person is labor, they don't know much about business. 
If said person is management, they likely will clash with the workers. 
If said person is both, it is a win win

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

walkerj said:


> I couldn't agree with you more. Many are an expense, though.
> 
> That's why what I am payed is between me and my boss.
> If I turn a profit of $xxx,xxx I get my salary plus $xx,xxx. ( not real x's)
> ...


 Who ever coined the phrase "win win" should have the sh1t kicked out of them.:laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Who ever coined the phrase "win win" should have the sh1t kicked out of them.:laughing:


You need to think outside the box, be proactive.


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## brison1208 (Feb 1, 2011)

I love how a few weeks ago there was talk of closing the "Union" portion of these forums because of the **** talking, and trouble.

Then Brian allows this to be posted, directly to a member at that, and allows it to just stay open so everyone can post FU this, FU that. 

WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD? 

Everything that is being said weather pro union/pro non-union can be said vice-versa. No one here is going to agree, so close the thread!


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

All these useless facts should be destroyed!

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

brison1208 said:


> No one here is going to agree, so close the thread!


If only your opinion mattered…


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Who ever coined the phrase "win win" should have the sh1t kicked out of them.:laughing:


If you make money, you win. 
If, at the same time, your employee makes money, he wins. 
Hence win-win. 

FWIW, I respect everyone who has worked hard for what they have. 
Restaurant or electrical contractor. 
Server or JW. 
Busboy or apprentice. 
Dishwasher or helper. 
Union or not. 

Oh the tangled web we weave!

Sent from your mom's iPhone. She says hi.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

brison1208 said:


> I love how a few weeks ago there was talk of closing the "Union" portion of these forums because of the **** talking, and trouble.
> 
> Then Brian allows this to be posted, directly to a member at that, and allows it to just stay open so everyone can post FU this, FU that.
> 
> ...


I do not remember anyone (besides me) thinking the portion of the forum should be closed. There has been no FU that I saw and I barely remember what the original topic was?

As fo this section, it is very active and before this was opened there was union chatter every where.

I do have to ask why do you find this offensive? Because it was addressed to Noah, or because some pick on the union?


----------



## brison1208 (Feb 1, 2011)

brian john said:


> I do not remember anyone (besides me) thinking the portion of the forum should be closed. There has been no FU that I saw and I barely remember what the original topic was?
> 
> As fo this section, it is very active and before this was opened there was union chatter every where.
> 
> I do have to ask why do you find this offensive? Because it was addressed to Noah, or because some pick on the union?


I wouldn't say I find it offensive, not a lot offends me. 

I do think it was pretty low that someone wants to call out a specific member, and then instead of closing the thread because you know where it's going to head, you leave it open.

There were some threads being closed back when the Wisconsin debate was hot, because of trash talk, etc. and around that time it was being questioned weather the Union section should be closed.

I know if a known union member was on here starting threads bad-mouthing non-union or a member it would get closed FAST.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

brison1208 said:


> I
> 
> I know if a known union member was on here starting threads bad-mouthing non-union or a member it would get closed FAST.


I'll reread the post and see if this is any worse than other post.

Noah is a self proclaimed leader of workers here and seems to do pretty well defending his side of the discussion. If he asked the mods I think this thread would be shut down ASAP.

Noah has made comments in the past the the "old union tactics" were mostly dead. The OP was (I THINK) pointing this out to Noah.
I think (and I could be wrong) that Noah enjoys the banter back and forth.


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## brison1208 (Feb 1, 2011)

brian john said:


> I'll reread the post and see if this is any worse than other post.
> 
> Noah is a self proclaimed leader of workers here and seems to do pretty well defending his side of the discussion. If he asked the mods I think this thread would be shut down ASAP.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's any worse then other post, but I do agree with Noah. I don't think this was really backed by any local, and if it was then I agree that is was dirty/stupid/low tactic. 

The IBEW is one yes, but it can't control all of it's members and I'm sure dumb **** like this was backed by no-one. If I look at all the dumb **** I have seen non-union companies do, does that mean they all are like that?

Yes there are those hardcore members who still think its the OLD days, but from what I have seen they are far and few between and usually out of work because no one wants to put up with jackasses like that weather union/non-union


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

brison1208 said:


> I
> 
> Yes there are those hardcore members who still think its the OLD days, but from what I have seen they are far and few between and usually out of work because no one wants to put up with jackasses like that weather union/non-union


Unfortunately, as Grandma use to say a few bad apples....And the news is not putting those guys working on Christmas in April on TV, the inflatable rat gets better headlines. Remember most of the news papers and new agencies are union.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

brison1208 said:


> I wouldn't say I find it offensive, not a lot offends me.
> 
> I do think it was pretty low that someone wants to call out a specific member, and then instead of closing the thread because you know where it's going to head, you leave it open.
> 
> ...


You have belonged to this forum for a little over 2 months and have 7 posts under your belt. You should click on "Brother Noah's" name and click read all post and topics and read all the crap he has posted if you can (most of it is run on sentences) 

Then you might think about taking back your comments made on this thread.

And while your at it try contributing to something other then the union section or are you just one of them who is just here to push the kool aid like your buddy Noah ?


----------



## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

brison1208 said:


> I don't think it's any worse then other post, but I do agree with Noah. I don't think this was really backed by any local, and if it was then I agree that is was dirty/stupid/low tactic.
> 
> The IBEW is one yes, but it can't control all of it's members and I'm sure dumb **** like this was backed by no-one. If I look at all the dumb **** I have seen non-union companies do, does that mean they all are like that?
> 
> Yes there are those hardcore members who still think its the OLD days, but from what I have seen they are far and few between and usually out of work because no one wants to put up with jackasses like that weather union/non-union



The rat is backed by the 103 here.

All too common in MA. I wonder if they honestly think it will help their cause? But. hey they can do what the want it's the USA!

Tom:thumbup:


http://www.newburyportnews.com/local/x1527123144/Electricians-protest-job-at-hospital
http://www.eagletribune.com/local/x1013554866/Union-to-let-its-rat-do-the-talking
http://www.wickedlocal.com/danvers/news/x449721755


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> I'll reread the post and see if this is any worse than other post.
> 
> Noah is a self proclaimed leader of workers here and seems to do pretty well defending his side of the discussion. If he asked the mods I think this thread would be shut down ASAP.
> 
> ...


Thank you Brian.I do not lay claim to being any ones leader but only to make sacrifices to help those in need and I do strive to create a better union. I believe that this thread had the intent to prove to me that this type of trash happens even today(that fact was already known) my point would be what should we do now that would benefit us all? Every action we make has some sort of reaction. What our IO has been putting out for many years is to befriend all those in our industry for harmonic working conditions(as I rarely agree with the IO this is where I know will help us all) My views are adored by few and scorned by many including within the IBEW. We all have seen abuse on both sides of the labor line, but who pays in the end? The workers are the ones(union and nonunion alike) who get shorted when any political power play comes into the equation. I wish you all well and look forward to more questions of combat duty?


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

nevermind lol


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## brison1208 (Feb 1, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> You have belonged to this forum for a little over 2 months and have 7 posts under your belt. You should click on "*robnj772*" name and click read all post and topics and read all the crap *I* have posted if you can (most of it is run on sentences)
> 
> Then you might think about taking back your comments made on this thread.
> 
> And while your at it try contributing to something other then the union section or are you just one of them who is just here to push the kool aid like your buddy Noah ?


Actually this is my 2nd account. I signed up long ago but never logged in and forgot the name and password.

Also I fixed your post for you. You can thank me later :thumbsup:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

brison1208 said:


> Actually this is my 2nd account. I signed up long ago but never logged on
> 
> I would like to tell you a bit about guys like me
> 
> ...


Here I fixed your post for you You can thank ME later :laughing:


----------



## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Using that stupid ass blow up rat, is about as Donald Trump dropping F - bombs. No one is impressed, ans turns lots of people off with such a first contact. Way to go Boston 103 in turning people against what you purport to support.

It's embarrassing being union when leadership chooses to be stuck on stupid.  Think I'm kidding?  Ask the community if this would influence them to use our services. Stick a knife in the damn blow-up rat, and throw it away before you run anymore potential customers off.:thumbsup:


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## Mitchonthespot (May 2, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Here I fixed your post for you You can thank ME later :laughing:


Actually, he should thank ME for that :whistling2:


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Mitchonthespot said:


> Actually, he should thank ME for that :whistling2:


 
Hey man you did say it was all mine!!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> Contractors will not keep someone on who just stands around all day. Disagree with me if you want but I and nearly everyone I've worked with shows up every day on time and ready to work. We get alot done and dont have to hack it in to produce.
> 
> No need to run if you work with your head and are efficient. I'd bet money I can get it in* just as quick* and do* just as good* of a job if not better then any open shop guy.
> 
> At the end of the day I go home happy knowing that I worked hard* kept busy* and I was worth every dollar I got paid and more. *Most of the Union brothers in my local are just like that*.


This is probably the most honest statement ever made on ET.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Cute dread by escott, and also several cute reto'ts. ah' would only guess dis be an invitashun fo' mah' reply. Slap mah fro! Cute, now where in yo' dread,post duz nuthin become productive and o' help any sucka's at all? Whut ya' gots shown us be a negative t'which yo' intent seems t'be also negative(double negative) Yeah dude I gots witnessed similar attacks(wuz dis sancshuned by lu103?)some uh dese protest gots been on some sucka'al case(widout da damn IBEW aware uh it) Now in some few cases when some particular contracto' gots been attacked in dis fashion by de IBEW, de said contracto' wuz brin'in' in all o' most employee's fum oda' states(protest t'protect local economy, not plum unions) ah' am sho' man dat if ya' had da damn intellect t'make dis post den sho' manly ya' wuz already aware uh dis merely fact but wished t'stir dry dog poop(hey whut eva' floats yo' boats) ah' do appreciate da damn sucka'al interest dough. Lop some boogie. ah' have been wo'kin' an outage at STP in Texas, wid limited time t'hit dis bo'd and oh how ah' missed all de fun we gots'tageder. Ah be baaad... Now escott if ya' would spend plum a fracshun uh de da damn time ya' wuzted on dis post by only tryin' t'improve wo'k condishuns,trade communicashuns,de poo' and needy den Boston would already be betta' from dat said effo't. Man! ah' do miss Boston dough, ah' gots'ta look ya' down next time ah' come into town and maybe we could visit da damn eatery togeder?


Your a Mod try to act like one.


----------



## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

gold said:


> This is probably the most honest statement ever made on ET.


 Really, the most honest answer? 

Compared to what, all the decieving answers the rest of us give?

What makes this statement anymore honest than someone else's? 

It may be what he honestly thinks. Does not make it fact. Just one guys opinion. 

I honestly think a two year apprentice is no where near keeping up with a 10-20 year journeyman. But that does not make my statement fact.


----------



## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

Skipp said:


> Really, the most honest answer?
> 
> Compared to what, all the decieving answers the rest of us give?
> 
> ...


I never said I think I'm quicker then a 10-20 year journeyman. I'm almost a fifth year apprentice. I will say I believe im just a quick as someone else who has been in the trade the same amount of time as me.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Skipp said:


> Really, the most honest answer?
> 
> Compared to what, all the decieving answers the rest of us give?
> 
> ...


Al13 SEEMS to be a decent worker, just based on what one can glean from a chat forum. I take him on and be glad he was on board. Of course we tone the IBEW banner down some.

He cares enough to belong hrere and try to learn more than the basic schooling.


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> And while your at it try contributing to something other then the union section or are you just one of them who is just here to push the kool aid like your buddy Noah ?



Your one to talk. You spend so much time on the "Union Topics" I would have thought you were union!! No matter what you think, this isn't how you join the IBEW rob! I know you really want to but you have to go to your local and apply, not here.

Also why don't you post more in the NON-UNION section? OH YEAH THATS RIGHT :whistling2:


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Your one to talk. You spend so much time on the "Union Topics" I would have thought you were union!! No matter what you think, this isn't how you join the IBEW rob! I know you really want to but you have to go to your local and apply, not here.
> 
> Also why don't you post more in the NON-UNION section? OH YEAH THATS RIGHT :whistling2:


 
I WAS a union guy key word WAS I left and pursued my own business and got away from the union crap I make myself money and the amount of money I make is based on how hard I work not just how long I have been a brother....

I post all over this forum unlike you,you have never left the union section,I just checked.

This is the union section not the union only section. The op isn't union,this thread is kinda anti union so I am glad to be here. 

Did my re quote of that brison guy hit a nerve.... :laughing::laughing::laughing: You must be a slug


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> I WAS a union girl


Keep telling yourself that buddy :thumbsup:


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Keep telling yourself that buddy :thumbsup:


Look son we all feel bad for you but it is what it is.

Just because that rat looks like your mom it isn't my fault.


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> Look son we all feel bad for you but it is what it is.
> 
> Just because that rat looks like your mom it isn't my fault.


Hold on let me use one of your famous quotes, "Your post is dildos !!!! How old are you? Like 12? 13?"

And you want me to believe that YOU own a company? Your mom, your dad, your grandma!

WOW just wow!


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Hold on let me use one of your famous quotes, "Your post is dildos !!!! How old are you? Like 12? 13?"
> 
> And you want me to believe that YOU own a company? Your mom, your dad, your grandma!
> 
> WOW just wow!


Your not even entertaining ,your putting me to :sleep1:

Wake me up when Noah comes back , you one post wonders really are lame.


----------



## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

captkirk said:


> There are plenty of Union companies out there that acually have class. For some reason I cant picture Brian Johns outfit hanging out with the rat ballon....


Lots of good and bad on both sides of the fence.



robnj772 said:


> Look son we all feel bad for you but it is what it is.
> 
> Just because that rat looks like your mom it isn't my fault.


Poor kid....












































.....a giant rat for a mother and you for a dad.

You walked right into that one man :laughing:


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Your not even entertaining ,your putting me to :sleep1:
> 
> Wake me up when Noah comes back , you one post wonders really are lame.


I knew you would miss me Brother! Anyway why do we feel the need to sling insults in order to get a point across? Yes the inflatable doll should be exiled for good and we all need to try to help our fellow workers, no matter if they are represented by an union or not. Hey I would love to have all the answers myself but my small brain and only 29 years in the trade I will be able, but just maybe with a little help from others(hint hint) life would be a nicer place for us all. Oh yeah and Brian exactly what did you mean by "tone the IBEW banner down some"? Surely your intent is not to step on a person rights is it? Well lets all kiss and make up and when the bell rings come out swinging.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Brother Noah said:


> Surely your intent is not to step on a person rights is it?


Really? What rights would you be referring too?


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> Your not even entertaining ,your putting me to :sleep1:
> 
> Wake me up when Noah comes back , you one post wonders really are lame.


You must sleep a lot then old man seeing how those one post wonders come straight from you! Maybe you should just get off and go to bed. You say the same **** to everyone, every time.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> You must sleep a lot then old man seeing how those one post wonders come straight from you! Maybe you should just get off and go to bed. You say the same **** to everyone, every time.


I sleep at night and I work during the day and when I work I actually WORK.

Since I just say"the same **** to everyone" (did it maybe occur to you that you only see me say simular things because you only try to start union/non union fights)

This one is for you jackass

*I know you. I don't know you personally, but I know your kind exactly. 

You're the asshole who takes twice as long to do any simple task, yet complains all day how you don't get paid enough. ($48/hr and almost $80/hr in the package isn't enough for pulling MC and running pipe, huh?)
You're the idiot who is in a local that has more marketshare than any other in the country, yet you never work because you can't hold a job. 
You're the dip**** who has SOJ available at your local, yet you can't use it because no company would ever purposely hire you since you don't produce. 
You're the slug that doesn't understand that your sole purpose is to make money for the contractor and do good work for the customer, as long as you do that, everything else will fall into place.

Thank you for putting your name on the IBEW... And we wonder why everyone looks at the in such a bad light. *

Now lets get back to that rat. Down by me they are building an Olive Garden. The rat is there and there even is a sign out front stating that the job " Is not being built to Codes required by the state of NJ"
so are they also pointing fingers at the town?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> . Oh yeah and Brian exactly what did you mean by "tone the IBEW banner down some”?



Die in the wool union types do well on large jobs. Bring that calling the hall every other day to whine, doesn’t fly in a small company.

My men are well compensated above scale and above mandated benefits, I do not need the constant “BROTHER RANTS” and my employees have no reason to complain, STRICTLY MY OPINION. But if they do not like it leave.


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## Mitchonthespot (May 2, 2011)

You guys have to understand something about Noah, he comes from a world in which every worker is a victim, no matter how well he/she is paid. The contractor is always out to get them, and so are the other workers who don't conform 100% to the union mentality.

If you want insight, go register at IBEWFriendsandFamily.com and read some of the threads posted. You'll be amazed. Apparently any worker who carries a tool pouch is a worm. I read a story about one of them showing up for the first day on the job and saw other workers around the gangbox at 6:55, so he said that he walked up to the foreman and told him that he won't be working there  I'm not kidding. Apparently using your own cell phone is a horrible thing, even if you have hundreds of free minutes or free mobile to mobile.

Noah posts a lot over there, take a look.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Mitchonthespot said:


> If you want insight, go register at IBEWFriendsandFamily.com and read some of the threads posted.


Why would any of us want to go and read stuff posted by the laziest and most annoying people in the trade?


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## Mitchonthespot (May 2, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Why would any of us want to go and read stuff posted by the laziest and most annoying people in the trade?


It's like looking at the aftermath of a bad car wreck, you just can't look away :thumbsup:


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Why would any of us want to go and read stuff posted by the laziest and most annoying people in the trade?


To find out where all the unskilled, wage undermining Rats are working.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Sparky3 said:


> To find out where all the unskilled, wage undermining Rats are working.


 
The key word to this post would be *Working :thumbup:*


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Sparky3 said:


> To find out where all the unskilled, wage undermining Rats are working.


Oh you mean all the electricians that are working and not bitching and inflating giant rat inflatables all over?


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## Mitchonthespot (May 2, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Oh you mean all the electricians that are working and not bitching and inflating giant rat inflatables all over?


It's actually fun setting them up. We didn't have one of our own so we had to borrow the Pipe Fitter's. 

I remember I had to leave one picket earlier to go work for a non-union contractor that I did sidework with :thumbup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Mitchonthespot said:


> It's actually fun setting them up. We didn't have one of our own so we had to borrow the Pipe Fitter's.
> 
> I remember I had to leave one picket earlier to go work for a non-union contractor that I did sidework with :thumbup:


I will say I have a list of companies that I'd enjoy inflating a rat in front of just for kicks. I wonder if I can get the local here to do it for me :laughing::laughing:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Sparky3 said:


> To find out where all the unskilled, wage undermining Rats are working.


Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, and D.C.

Come and get me motherf*cker.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, and D.C.
> 
> Come and get me motherf*cker.


No ****, you need bus fare sparky3?


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

do the smaller locals just use an inflatable cheese?


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Mitchonthespot said:


> You guys have to understand something about Noah, he comes from a world in which every worker is a victim, no matter how well he/she is paid. The contractor is always out to get them, and so are the other workers who don't conform 100% to the union mentality.
> 
> If you want insight, go register at IBEWFriendsandFamily.com and read some of the threads posted. You'll be amazed. Apparently any worker who carries a tool pouch is a worm. I read a story about one of them showing up for the first day on the job and saw other workers around the gangbox at 6:55, so he said that he walked up to the foreman and told him that he won't be working there  I'm not kidding. Apparently using your own cell phone is a horrible thing, even if you have hundreds of free minutes or free mobile to mobile.
> 
> Noah posts a lot over there, take a look.


I have nothing to hide but when you say I come from a world in which every one is a victim, well that is an all out lie! I do not hesitate to stand up for workers rights but, what we sell is labor(some on this forum boast about working hard for the pay you get)(thats exactly what you paid for) now when the union contract calls for only certain tools to be supplied by the employee, yet the contractor will rof a person if they refuse to use their own (lets say, drill motors,porta band,pony or yes even their own personal phone) well I do have a problem with those that violate our said contract(this would be under the job conditions set by our forefathers making many sacrifices in the past for the future generations to benefit from) It would take a person lacking knowledge of good working conditions and or naive to even phantom that to raise your voice for using your own personal phone would be something to harp about? In many cases it is not actually the contractor where my problem lies but in the company supervisors, that with an over zealous ambition take it upon their self to violate the contract and put the employee's jobs jeopardy and the contractor may find litigation pending(so not good for any one) In other words if you have never had these said job conditions then you would make jokes on a board such as this about others you really have no idea what their discussion is concerning. I do appreciate all the attention that this thread has generated for the most part it seems healthy, now at the bell(well you know what to do)


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## Mitchonthespot (May 2, 2011)

Brother Noah said:


> I have nothing to hide but when you say I come from a world in which every one is a victim, well that is an all out lie! I do not hesitate to stand up for workers rights but, what we sell is labor(some on this forum boast about working hard for the pay you get)(thats exactly what you paid for) now when the union contract calls for only certain tools to be supplied by the employee, yet the contractor will rof a person if they refuse to use their own (lets say, drill motors,porta band,pony or yes even their own personal phone) well I do have a problem with those that violate our said contract(this would be under the job conditions set by our forefathers making many sacrifices in the past for the future generations to benefit from)


 But that is not what I said. I said someone who wears a tool pouch, THAT is a worm according to many of your buddies. Hell, many of your friends will call anyone with more tools that the powerhouse 5 a contractor ass kisser.




> It would take a person lacking knowledge of good working conditions and or naive to even phantom that to raise your voice for using your own personal phone would be something to harp about? In many cases it is not actually the contractor where my problem lies but in the company supervisors, that with an over zealous ambition take it upon their self to violate the contract and put the employee's jobs jeopardy and the contractor may find litigation pending(so not good for any one) In other words if you have never had these said job conditions then you would make jokes on a board such as this about others you really have no idea what their discussion is concerning. I do appreciate all the attention that this thread has generated for the most part it seems healthy, now at the bell(well you know what to do)


More drivel...


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

I will say from my Union experience which is around 5 years. There is a lot of flex around the contract. If you're one who harps about every little thing you will not stay working. Especially in this economy. The contractors will just find someone who doesn't whine. We try to uphold the contract to the best of our abilities.

In my experience it is best to show up, keep your mouth shut unless there is something blatantly wrong, work your ass off. Then go home.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> I will say from my Union experience which is around 5 years. There is a lot of flex around the contract. If you're one who harps about every little thing you will not stay working. Especially in this economy. The contractors will just find someone who doesn't whine. We try to uphold the contract to the best of our abilities.
> 
> In my experience it is best to show up, keep your mouth shut unless there is something blatantly wrong, work your ass off. Then go home.


Then the economic situation will dictate work ethics? I do agree it is best not to harp on minor issues at every available chance(this would be counter productive) but there is a difference when between constantly whining and allowing whomever to have their way with you because your in fear of being fired. Some do live with this fear(and for good cause) and some are unaware of even whats in the contract (shame on them) If you are only performing on your job out of fear then you may be part of our problems(8 for 8 scared are not)


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Mitchonthespot said:


> But that is not what I said. I said someone who wears a tool pouch, THAT is a worm according to many of your buddies. Hell, many of your friends will call anyone with more tools that the powerhouse 5 a contractor ass kisser.
> 
> 
> 
> More drivel...


You are correct you did not say that but you did post it as well as the issue about wearing a tool pouch(you lost me on that one, I carry a tool pouch on occasion so I guess I am a wiggler) as far as carrying tools, like I posted before there are conditions that you have yet to experience or you would understand what working by the contract means and would not be at sea on yet another issue. You refer to the people on the other site as my friends and buddies which I also consider most on this board(maybe you could get into a little bit more detail) like names, and maybe cite a reference to what threads,post that seem so foul to your senses? Many of us in the union have never met but we treat each other with common decency that we would extend to our own family members(unless they give us reasons to forgo this) when we travel we open our doors (maybe just a floor to sleep on) and help one another as we should. I have also seen humanity extended by those who do not have a union to represent them.Well good luck in what ever path you choose, and remember any day top side dirt is a good day.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Let's do the math.

3 stores inspected quarterly from 2009 to date = 30 inspections.

39 violations in 30 inspections isn't bad at all. Around here, you will rarely see 100% on a health inspection.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Come on Noah, the space bar is your friend.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Noah,

I know lots of died in the wool union lovers. But none with the fervor you carry.
You sir are a true beliver, or having a heck of a good time BS'ing us.


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> I sleep at night and I work during the day and when I work I actually WORK.
> 
> Since I just say"the same **** to everyone" (did it maybe occur to you that you only see me say simular things because you only try to start union/non union fights)
> 
> ...


Most people do sleep at night and work during the day jackass!

Also you are right about one thing, I do make $48.84 an hour. You probably could too but see all you care about is under cutting every electrical contractor in town. Usually you don't turn a profit, you cut all the corners and hack your way through the project, and if you do make money, its barely enough for you to buy something off the McDonald's $1 menu. 

You want your guys to own $10,000 in tools (not to mention maintenance) yet you want to pay them $10-$11/hr. You hire kids right off the street with no experience and throw them in a live panel their first day. Congratulations on doing your part in the "Race to the bottom". You are really making a name for yourself, I believe its called Mexico and China!


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

anonymousbikes said:


> Most people do sleep at night and work during the day jackass!
> 
> Also you are right about one thing, I do make $48.84 an hour. You probably could too but see all you care about is under cutting every electrical contractor in town. Usually you don't turn a profit, you cut all the corners and hack your way through the project, and if you do make money, its barely enough for you to buy something off the McDonald's $1 menu.
> 
> You want your guys to own $10,000 in tools (not to mention maintenance) yet you want to pay them $10-$11/hr. You hire kids right off the street with no experience and throw them in a live panel their first day. Congratulations on doing your part in the "Race to the bottom". You are really making a name for yourself, I believe its called Mexico and China!


The IBEW should really consider giving up electrical work entirely and going into the brainwashing business. They'd be damn good at it.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Then the economic situation will dictate work ethics? I do agree it is best not to harp on minor issues at every available chance(this would be counter productive) but there is a difference when between constantly whining and allowing whomever to have their way with you because your in fear of being fired. Some do live with this fear(and for good cause) and some are unaware of even whats in the contract (shame on them) If you are only performing on your job out of fear then you may be part of our problems(8 for 8 scared are not)


I agree with everything you just said. I don't work out of fear. I just realize some minor things in the contract don't need to be harped about on a constant basis. If you have to use your phone a couple times to get in touch with somebody. Not the end of the world IMO. Now if the foreman is calling you all day long or something that's a different story.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> The IBEW should really consider giving up electrical work entirely and going into the brainwashing business. They'd be damn good at it.


Such hate. Sad Indeed. I don't think the Non-union is bad. Just trying to make a living just as we in the IBEW are.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Most people do sleep at night and work during the day jackass!
> 
> Also you are right about one thing, I do make $48.84 an hour. You probably could too but see all you care about is under cutting every electrical contractor in town. Usually you don't turn a profit, you cut all the corners and hack your way through the project, and if you do make money, its barely enough for you to buy something off the McDonald's $1 menu.
> 
> You want your guys to own $10,000 in tools (not to mention maintenance) yet you want to pay them $10-$11/hr. You hire kids right off the street with no experience and throw them in a live panel their first day. Congratulations on doing your part in the "Race to the bottom". You are really making a name for yourself, I believe its called Mexico and China!


What do you mean? I thought you said I was lying about owning my contracting business? 

I supplied all the tools for the last helper because the other guy left and left his tools here and my helpers start at more the 11$ so nice try asshole.

Keep drinking that kool aid but I hope that you can live off that **** because that is all your gonna have soon. Guys like you and your girlfriend Noah do nothing but give the union a bad name and turn off contractors. Soon when there are no union contractors left you will be mowing my lawn.

But could you stay on topic this is about a rat infront of a store. Not a topic for you union slugs to grandstand


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

anonymousbikes said:


> You want your guys to own $10,000 in tools (not to mention maintenance) yet you want to pay them $10-$11/hr. You hire kids right off the street with no experience and throw them in a live panel their first day. Congratulations on doing your part in the "Race to the bottom". You are really making a name for yourself, I believe its called Mexico and China!



That is such a load, not all non-union shops are like that.

We pay close to union wages, provide health dental and eye care. Provide required schooling at no charge, provide other training all the time such as confined space, electrical safety, CPR etc.

We provide everything but hand tools, some guys choose to bring their own power tools in but are not required to.

And finally no apprentice is thrown into a live panel, the company has a strictly enforced no hot work policy for everyone.

So before you swallow everything the hall tells you open your brain and think for yourself.

I am not putting down the union, just pointing out that there are two sides to everything and getting all your info from one source is not the way to go.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> Such hate. Sad Indeed. I don't think the Non-union is bad. Just trying to make a living just as we in the IBEW are.


I don't see the hate, I see someone pointing out that getting all your info from the hall is foolish and you will end up not knowing the truth.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> You want your guys to own $10,000 in tools (not to mention maintenance) yet you want to pay them $10-$11/hr. You hire kids right off the street with no experience and throw them in a live panel their first day. Congratulations on doing your part in the "Race to the bottom". You are really making a name for yourself, I believe its called Mexico and China!


 
Many of my customers are EC's and even in the worst shops I have NEVER seen what you are talking about here.

Wages are generally less than union, though not always, benefits seldom equal to union, but sometimes they are. Tools issues are basically the same. I know of NO companies union or open shop that allow apprentices to work in energized panels.

What you fail to realize is there are insurance issues and OSHA. Insurance companies will raise your rates or jerk your coverage, if you operate an unsafe shop.

You are either upset and ranting with some exaggeration , parroting the union drivel, lying or just full of BS.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I don't see the hate, I see someone pointing out that getting all your info from the hall is foolish and you will end up not knowing the truth.


Although I agree be leery of what our politicians are feeding you(they are motivated in regard to staying a politician) I do believe in the ideal of the union for the benefit of all workers.Now for the claim that fair contractors paying the same as union contractors, I once worked on the other side of the counter (mid 90's in the Augusta area) an the only occasion that this would occur was on government projects that mandated it. On a norm the scales were $8-12 an hour less with H&W almost unheard of (maybe self pay) Now I personally would like to see all construction workers make more for plying their trade not just the union members.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I don't see the hate, I see someone pointing out that getting all your info from the hall is foolish and you will end up not knowing the truth.





Brother Noah said:


> Although I agree be leery of what our politicians are feeding you(they are motivated in regard to staying a politician)


All organizations from the cub scouts, to political parties, to the union hall, to merit contractors trade groups have their own motivations to spin things and steer peoples beliefs to fit the organizations goals. I consider this a well established fact, union or non-union.

The fact you try to deny the union has such motivations really hurts your credibility. 



> I do believe in the ideal of the union for the benefit of all workers.


I have never said otherwise, I have even said it would be bad for all of us if the union folded. But if the union wants to survive they must learn, adapt and compromise in today's world.




> Now for the claim that fair contractors paying the same as union contractors, I once worked on the other side of the counter (mid 90's in the Augusta area) an the only occasion that this would occur was on government projects that mandated it.


I did not claim we pay the same I said we pay close to the same hourly, wrap our benefits like vacation in there and we are damn close.

In fact when I have been on PW jobs under RI 'residential' rates my hourly would have dropped. 




> On a norm the scales were $8-12 an hour less with H&W almost unheard of (maybe self pay)


I have never worked for a shop that did not provide H&W for me, this spans the range from really small shops to large shops.

Of course that is not the case at all non-union shops ........ but that is were personal responsibility should come into action. No one has to take a job that they do not want to.




> Now I personally would like to see all construction workers make more for plying their trade not just the union members.


I wish we all had a Jennie like Barbra Eden but wishes and hopes will not change the world.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> All organizations from the cub scouts, to political parties, to the union hall, to merit contractors trade groups have their own motivations to spin things and steer peoples beliefs to fit the organizations goals. I consider this a well established fact, union or non-union.
> 
> The fact you try to deny the union has such motivations really hurts your credibility.
> 
> ...


Well then I do trust the unions and my Brothers and Sisters, yet I do not trust many of the politicians that run the unions(there is a difference you know?) Now when you say the unions need to adapt and compromise to survive, are you implying we lower our wages,give the 40 hour work week,OSHA,our fight against biased employers or what do we need to do to lower our basic needs to suit what your ideal of an union should be? Well I have posted before that IO has pretty much opened the doors for all to enter the union without any obligation with the new CE/CW program that will allow all to work for the union at a reduced scale(therefore the fair shops will have to start cutting your pay in order to compete)(something I disagree with) 
As far as a genie, no I do not have big breast or even look near as good as Barbra but if we all were to make small efforts to only help each other we could see a change(the world is a larger step) Why go through life with anger and hostility when it could be a peaceful place with our efforts? As far as your report on scales(what your pooping I am not scooping) maybe residential but is anyone really earning anything on building houses in this economy?


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

BBQ said:


> All organizations from the cub scouts, to political parties, to the union hall, to merit contractors trade groups have their own motivations to spin things and steer peoples beliefs to fit the organizations goals. I consider this a well established fact, union or non-union.
> 
> The fact you try to deny the union has such motivations really hurts your credibility.
> 
> ...


Solid observations.

I often wonder, how much dfference in cultural clash there is.We have East coast vs West coast, City vs Rural, Liberal vs Conservative. You find various sets of all three, in both - union, and open shop.

For union growth to occur, we have to get beyond the tail wagging the dog. Old nonunion guys carrying a grudge for 900 years, won't do anyone any good. Union guys with blow up damn rats (probably made in China) jut piss people off.

It takes three to four generations for a country to change on most issues. Unions need leaders.Right now, they are on slow motion Charlie Sheen....Till enough young guys get screwed by unscrupulious employers, and the old guys want better retirements, I don't see the tide changing much. When it does change though...it'll be a huge wave.

Course most electricians don't know what they are worth either. Sometimes it's a good thing


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> if we all were to make small efforts to only help each other we could see a change(the world is a larger step) Why go through life with anger and hostility when it could be a peaceful place with our efforts?


Tell that to these guys. 


electricmanscott said:


>


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Remember that little phase when everyone had a rat avatar? Those were the good days :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> Such hate. Sad Indeed. I don't think the Non-union is bad. Just trying to make a living just as we in the IBEW are.


No hate. Just the truth, as seen by an experienced electrician, manager, and soon to be EE that has to deal with union members all the time.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> Wages are generally less than union, though not always, benefits seldom equal to union, but sometimes they are. Tools issues are basically the same. I know of NO companies union or open shop that allow apprentices to work in energized panels.


Every non union shop I know here puts the union away in every area. Better pay, nicer, take home, trucks. No tool issues. Contrary to what BS has been pushed by the union, our guys are highly qualified, we don't hire just anyone, we care about their safety and everything else.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Every non union shop I know here puts the union away in every area. Better pay, nicer, take home, trucks. No tool issues. Contrary to what BS has been pushed by the union, our guys are highly qualified, we don't hire just anyone, we care about their safety and everything else.


That's cool.

How about retirement benefits? I'm 5 years away (59 full benney's start if you have pension hours enough to "pull the pin", No mandatory retirement)...what do have to offer?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Everyone seems to be a little different in that area. But I'd say they are all on par with the union here. If you've been jumping between shops your whole career is where you'll run into problems, since you'll have all these different plans.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Every non union shop I know here puts the union away in every area. Better pay, nicer, take home, trucks. No tool issues.


I wish it was like that here, if it was I would drop the union without a second thought.

Sure, there are some good paying jobs, but they are few and far between. I keep my eyes open, but all I see are mid to low $20's per hour, sometimes in the teens, and that's for a service electrician or construction foreman with experience. Those rates are below the poverty level here. I could certainly understand that they couldn't keep up with the union rates, but most openings are offering less than the janitor at the school I was at today makes. I don't think it's unreasonable for a skilled and experienced service electrician in a very high cost of living state to make $30/hr.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Everyone seems to be a little different in that area. But I'd say they are all on par with the union here. If you've been jumping between shops your whole career is where you'll run into problems, since you'll have all these different plans.


We are much more seasonal than AZ. Also depends on who has the work ...With the union here, all your benefits, go to the same spot. So no matter which union shop you work for, your growing your retirement (unless you have a cast on, and doing recovery:whistling2 fund,and insurance (thankfully). 

We probably have a larger share of the market here for those very reasons.


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> What do you mean? I thought you said I was lying about owning my contracting business?
> 
> I supplied all the tools for the last helper because the other guy left and left his tools here and my helpers start at more the 11$ so nice try asshole.
> 
> ...


Somebody get this guy the "Employer of the Year" award! Wow you gave tools to someone that were left by someone else. That was real white of you! You must have really pissed the other guy off to the point that instead of finding a new place to work, he left the trade!

I think you need to quit drinking your own Kool-aid there. How long has the IBEW been around? They survived back then when people like you said the same **** your saying now. And if for some reason there was no more IBEW, I think it is the hacks like yourself that will be out of a job. 



BBQ said:


> That is such a load, not all non-union shops are like that.
> 
> We pay close to union wages, provide health dental and eye care. Provide required schooling at no charge, provide other training all the time such as confined space, electrical safety, CPR etc.
> 
> ...


Not all unions are like you guys portray them either! Yet you all still give your one-sided opinions all day long.

Unlike 95% of the people on here, I have worked both sides. I have worked more in the non-union side then the union side. The non-union side is what drove me to join the union! 

This is a fact in my area of Indianapolis that there are honestly 3 good non-union companies that do closely match the union when it comes to pay/benefits/tools. Besides those 3, yes all the others hire greenest guys on this planet, pay them crap wages, expect them to have every tool made, put them in constant danger. 

In fact that was me when I first got in this trade. My first day they had me landing breakers in a panel that was hot. I told the guy running the job I have no experience at all and I didn't feel comfortable. He said don't touch anything metal in the middle or at the top, you'll be fine, I can't babysit you all day.

I worked for 4 other contractors and saw the same **** all the time. Other guys I talk with have seen it happen also.

So congratulations, you found a non-union contractor that is actually decent. A rarity! 



brian john said:


> Many of my customers are EC's and even in the worst shops I have NEVER seen what you are talking about here.
> 
> Wages are generally less than union, though not always, benefits seldom equal to union, but sometimes they are. Tools issues are basically the same. I know of NO companies union or open shop that allow apprentices to work in energized panels.
> 
> ...


How does anyone know if your running an unsafe shop or not if **** doesn't get reported, guys are getting paid under the table, hush hush money is being thrown around? 

Im not upset/ranting at all. I could careless if you or anyone else on this forum wants to work for less. I have a good thing and I have to actually thank the non-union companies for making my life better. No more days of hoping I make it back home tonight, no more days hoping my boss is in a good mood today so I can get that raise I should have had 2 years ago, no more days heading home after a service call, that kept me out late already, just to have my boss call when I'm in my driveway, to go out and do another job while he is golfing. Can't tell him no for fear of loosing my job.


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> Every non union shop I know here puts the union away in every area. Better pay, nicer, take home, trucks. No tool issues. Contrary to what BS has been pushed by the union, our guys are highly qualified, we don't hire just anyone, we care about their safety and everything else.


You say WE like you represent all non-union! Last time I checked, non-union doesn't have any collective bargaining. You are one of the few that found a good non-union contractor.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

anonymousbikes said:


> You say WE like you represent all non-union! Last time I checked, non-union doesn't have any collective bargaining. You are one of the few that found a good non-union contractor.


Sorry you don't like my writing style. There are by far more good contractor than bad ones though from what I can see. 

Oh no what ever will I do without collective bargaining? :laughing:


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Unlike 95% of the people on here, I have worked both sides. I have worked more in the non-union side then the union side. The non-union side is what drove me to join the union!
> 
> 
> Im not upset/ranting at all. I could careless if you or anyone else on this forum wants to work for less. .



Well I also worked both sides and the lazy worthless slugs are what got me away from the union. Do good nothings that cried and whined but got paid the same as the hard workers.. where is the incentive to do a good job? NOWHERE. Yay for me and F everyone else.

How long has the union been around you ask.. a long time but they keep losing market shares and not getting any new ones so how long will the union be around ? not much longer

BTW you are upest and ranting otherwise you wouldn't be here..

Us RATS must be getting under your skin.... :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Remember that little phase when everyone had a rat avatar? Those were the good days :laughing:


:laughing: :laughing: I remember that now.


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> Well I also worked both sides and the lazy worthless slugs are what got me away from the union. Do good nothings that cried and whined but got paid the same as the hard workers.. where is the incentive to do a good job? NOWHERE. Yay for me and F everyone else.
> 
> How long has the union been around you ask.. a long time but they keep losing market shares and not getting any new ones so how long will the union be around ? not much longer
> 
> ...


Yeah because those same type of people don't work non-union either!

How much longer will your supposed shop be around? Keep selling your self out, it will be a lot quicker.

So me being here makes me upset and ranting? Well looks like me and you are in the same boat.

Now your calling yourself a RAT?! Wow you must not really like yourself uh, I should have known that though I mean look, you could be making more but naw you settle for that $1 menu.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> where is the incentive to do a good job? NOWHERE.


Us rat shops have no such problems;










:laughing:


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> Sorry you don't like my writing style. There are by far more good contractor than bad ones though from what I can see.
> 
> Oh no what ever will I do without collective bargaining? :laughing:


You probably won't retire at 55-60 and live comfortably, but hey this is America..........land of the free!


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

anonymousbikes said:


> You probably won't retire at 55-60 and live comfortably


I never planned on retiring. I like what I do, I plan on moving into engineering when I'm too old to do field work.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> , you could be making more but naw you settle for that $1 menu.


 
Well the resurants I wire don't have dollar menus, you must be confused because that is where you go with your un employment check.... 

Keep milking the taxpayers.. your union you deserve it!!!


Funny all you union slugs have the exact same lines. It must be in the union manual for trolling they issue you when you sit on the bench.

Look kids, Big Ben... Parliment.....


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

A dedicated Teamsters Union worker was attending a convention 
in Las Vegas and decided to check out the local brothels. When 
he got to the first one, he asked the Madam, "Is this a union 
house?" 


"No," she replied, "I'm sorry, it isn't." 


"Well, if I pay you $100.00, what cut do the girls get?" 


"The house gets $80.00 and the girls get $20.00." 


Mightily offended at such unfair dealings, the man stomped off 
down the street in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized 
shop. His search continued until finally he reached a brothel 
where the Madam responded, "Why, yes, sir, this IS a Union House." 


The man asked, "And if I pay you $100.00, what cut do the girls get?" 


"The girls get $80.00 and the house gets $20.00." 


"That's more like it!!!" the Teamster said. He handed the Madam $100.00, 
looked around the room and pointed to a stunningly attractive blonde. 
"I'd like her for the night." 


"I'm sure you would, sir," said the Madam, then pointing to an 85 
year-old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has seniority."

:laughing:

Two managers and a union worker were fishing on a lake one day, when Jesus walked across the water and joined them in the boat. When the three astonished men had settled down enough to speak, the first guy asked humbly, "Jesus, I've suffered from 
back pain ever since I took shrapnel in the Vietnam war...could you help me?" "Of course, my son", Jesus said, and when he touched the man's back, he felt relief for the first time in years. The second man, who wore very thick glasses and had a hard time reading and driving, asked if Jesus could do anything about his eyesight. Jesus smiled, removed the man's glasses and tossed them in the lake. When they hit the water, the man's eyes cleared and he could see everything distinctly. When Jesus turned to heal the union worker, the guy put his hands up and cried defensively, "Don't touch me! I'm on long term disability."

:laughing:

- How can you tell when a Union Electrician died? The doughnut drops out of his hand.
:laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> No hate. Just the truth, as seen by an experienced electrician, manager, and soon to *be EE that has *to deal with union members all the time.


You? *WOW* and WAY TO GO?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> You probably won't retire at 55-60 and live comfortably, but hey this is America..........land of the free!


I am union and do not plan to retire especially at such a young age.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> You? *WOW* and WAY TO GO?


Wow, thanks for the faith in my abilities. :laughing::laughing:

Yeah, i've had kinda a odd school career, few classes here, few there, been like that since high school, I'll have to find time to do the lab classes now.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> How does anyone know if your running an unsafe shop or not if **** doesn't get reported, guys are getting paid under the table, hush hush money is being thrown around?


As surprising as this might sound insurance companies keep records of accident rates. 



> Im not upset/ranting at all. I could careless if you or anyone else on this forum wants to work for less. .


I doubt I make less than you. When my parents relocated to Indianapolis, I was 18 and I check the wages there, compared to what I was making here. AT the time I was working open shop and your union scale was less than my open shop wages.

And you are ranting, because if you cared less, you would have stopped posting long ago. But then some of us are ranting also.


Fact is neither side will win or lose the union open shop debate. Fact is the unions have lost 40% of the work force. Fact is inflatable Rats are not a positive thing for the union image. Fact is unless unions do something positive they will continue to shrink.

The public sees this RAT as red neck IGNORANT. Not a positive impression, unions need to win back public support and instead they continue to alienate the public. They support the Dems with 99% of their funding in lieu of trying to BE SMART and spreading the cash 60% dem 40% rep. LIKE 99% of businesses do.

All the money the unions threw at Big “O” and what did you get? Card Check? NOPE, Wisconsin? NOPE, Maryland a liberal state? SLIPPING AWAY, Massachusetts? Sliding away, NJ working for change. They got a high price lawyer on the NLRB and he is looking around DC trying to better himself when the “O” change, changes. (Washington Post last week)


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

Don't edit my post and put words in my mouth. Post for yourself!


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Tell that to these guys.


escott what point did you prove? All I see is you posting a picture of your self in front a blow up doll that is meant to stir others ire. So is it your intent to stir bad emotions with your post? Yes these people who originally are responsible for for this terrible show on the streets of Boston have caused negative emotions but where does it stop? So are you a part of the solutions or the problems? Now Rob there has seems to be something that you are not telling the board in regards to your past relationship with the IBEW, If I were to quit on the union and my future pension I for sure would never tell others it was because of other people being lazy(really?) Now I myself have been wronged by corrupt politicians within the IBEW and can understand animosity for being wronged but to openly tell others I quit because others were lazy??? One of the first jobs I worked for a nonunion contractor was West Georgia Electric at Fort Gordon in the new construction a of a data center and we all were told to hide,sleep,play cards or whatever because we were only there to milk the job(there are lazy and unethical on both sides) So I say if we only made attempts to help each other we would all benefit, instead of the constant bickering and trying to harm others.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

anonymousbikes said:


> Don't edit my post and put words in my mouth. Post for yourself!


Mods do that occasionally. If you ever mod a vBulletin forum you'll find that the edit post and quote with reply are right next to each other. I make that mistake daily, I usually catch it though.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> escott what point did you prove?


His point _*is very clear*_.

All your BS about union low class tactics being in that past are just that ... BS.

His picture shows very recent and common activity of the 103 IBEW.

If you think that sort of thing helps the IBEWs image you are a fool. 

As far as the rest of your post ....... it is just trying to make Scott look like the bad guy for reporting the IBEWs activities.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

The ones that call themselves "Brothers" are always the laziest POSs....just sayin......:whistling2:


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Brother Noah said:


> escott what point did you prove? All I see is you posting a picture of your self in front a blow up doll that is meant to stir others ire.
> 
> So is it your intent to stir bad emotions with your post? Yes these people who originally are responsible for for this terrible show on the streets of Boston have caused negative emotions but where does it stop? So are you a part of the solutions or the problems?
> 
> ...


 
There I fixed your post :laughing::laughing::laughing: 

*THEY ARE CALLED PARAGRAPHS USE THEM !!!*

I left the union because of assholes like you

I started my own business

What part don't you understand?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

The point is the union has control over this bad press and bad public image. They can work to change that. But they won’t or will not do this and it may be a little to late.

Grandma use to say you get more with sugar than vinegar. And this is as true to day as it was 50 years ago.

Win friends don’t make enemies. The basic union mentality does not promote that.


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> His point _*is very clear*_.
> 
> All your BS about union low class tactics being in that past are just that ... BS.
> 
> ...


You twist the facts to suit your story,its yours after all tell it like you want to. If you want to get the truth out you might want to ask others.Look around you and I am sure you will see strange events that rarely happen.The IBEW IO has pushed for creating a friendly atmosphere within our field and feel sure they do not back this type of activity.Now if it is a persons goal in life to merely prove others wrong then they them self are negative in their approach to life and suffer from many insecurities and ism. We are humans (last time I checked) we all(yes even me) make mistakes, what escott reported was fine in itself except in my opinion his intent and demeanor (of course this is what I see) it was not done in a productive fashion but with ill will.
Once again rob you evade the whole story with a short because of those azzholes.Well any way I think it is wonderful that you found what you enjoy doing for a trade, I wish you luck brother.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> Don't edit my post and put words in my mouth. Post for yourself!


 
ANONY

I may have done that in the past I caught it. If I did it waas a TOTAL ACCIDENT.

I would not alter your post intentionally.

My Apologies, I'll make a double dues payment this month as my penance.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> You twist the facts to suit your story,its yours after all tell it like you want to. If you want to get the truth out you might want to ask others.Look around you and I am sure you will see strange events that rarely happen.The IBEW IO has pushed for creating a friendly atmosphere within our field and feel sure they do not back this type of activity.Now if it is a persons goal in life to merely prove others wrong then they them self are negative in their approach to life and suffer from many insecurities and ism. We are humans (last time I checked) we all(yes even me) make mistakes, what escott reported was fine in itself except in my opinion his intent and demeanor (of course this is what I see) it was not done in a productive fashion but with ill will.
> Once again rob you evade the whole story with a short because of those azzholes.Well any way I think it is wonderful that you found what you enjoy doing for a trade, I wish you luck brother.


 
Noah,

Surely you are in the wrong profession, you should get an English Degree and be a spin doctor.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> escott what point did you prove? All I see is you posting a picture of your self in front a blow up doll that is meant to stir others ire. So is it your intent to stir bad emotions with your post? Yes these people who originally are responsible for for this terrible show on the streets of Boston have caused negative emotions but where does it stop? So are you a part of the solutions or the problems?


BBQ answered perfectly but he left out the part about how my post and your subsequent posts once again show you are a phony. That and I wanted to show everybody how handsome I am. :thumbup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> You twist the facts to suit your story,


What part do you think I twisted?

I am really asking you, what did I twist? 





> If you want to get the truth out you might want to ask others.Look around you and I am sure you will see strange events that rarely happen.


The rat and it's followers are not rare or strange events in this area.




> The IBEW IO has pushed for creating a friendly atmosphere within our field and feel sure they do not back this type of activity.


If that is true than they certainly are not doing a good job of it or getting the word out to the locals around my area. 




> Now if it is a persons goal in life to merely prove others wrong then they them self are negative in their approach to life and suffer from many insecurities and ism.


It is not my goal in life, but this is a discussion forum, it is not Noah's forum to say what he wants without being questioned.

If you post things I do not agree with or believe I will post my thoughts, that is how a forum works. 




> We are humans (last time I checked) we all(yes even me) make mistakes, what escott reported was fine in itself except in my opinion his intent and demeanor (of course this is what I see) it was not done in a productive fashion but with ill will.


Yes, I agree, Scott has some ill will and so do I. But not nearly as much as the group that tries to say a restaurant is unhealthy because it does not hire the IBEW. That is ill will and threatens the livelihood of the employes at that restaurant.

So while you are getting upset about words on a forum that mean nothing you don't seem to care at all about real IBEW actions that may harm others. 




> Once again rob you evade the whole story with a short because of those azzholes.


What is the whole story?




> Well any way I think it is wonderful that you found what you enjoy doing for a trade, I wish you luck brother.


I am not your brother and never will be.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah,
> 
> Surely you are in the wrong profession, you should get an English Degree and be a spin doctor.


I'm sure he would fit right in on FOX,

Just to keep things fair and balanced..:laughing:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Mods do that occasionally. If you ever mod a vBulletin forum you'll find that the edit post and quote with reply are right next to each other. I make that mistake daily, I usually catch it though.


Moderators of vB forums suck, all of them.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> The ones that call themselves "Brothers" are always the laziest POSs....just sayin......:whistling2:


That is TRUE. Those people need to rely on others. 

Now me on the other hand, I hate all my "brothers" because I always find ways that they hold me down and make me look bad.


----------



## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

HackWork said:


> That is TRUE. Those people need to rely on others.
> 
> Now me on the other hand, I hate all my "brothers" because I always find ways that they hold me down and make me look bad.


You are a hack how could your brothers make you look bad?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Sparky3 said:


> You are a hack how could your brothers make you look bad?


I produce and make my contractor money. My brothers complain that I am working too hard and that Friday is for the men


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> You are a hack how could your brothers make you look bad?


I think you might have him there. :laughing:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I think you might have him there. :laughing:


I only hack sidework.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Moderators of vB forums suck, all of them.


Yes, and they smell like cabbage.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Yes, and they smell like cabbage.


Speak for yourself. I smell like glue lam beams today :laughing:


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> What part do you think I twisted?
> 
> I am really asking you, what did I twist?
> When you put a persons post in your own words and or opinion of what they thought(this is what I am calling a twist)
> ...


It seems to me(yes my thoughts) you are testy about the moniker I used to refer to you(I only thought it posted better than BBQ,darling,sweetheart, etc)


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> It seems to me(yes my thoughts) you are testy about the moniker I used to refer to you(I only thought it posted better than BBQ,darling,sweetheart, etc)


Noah, a lot of men dislike, resent or HATE being called brother, unless you are their brother. 

I do not like to be called brother, never have, never will.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> Noah, a lot of men dislike, resent or HATE being called brother, unless you are their brother.
> 
> I do not like to be called brother, never have, never will.


My bad, brah.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Of all the threads getting slammed closed lately how is this Piece of sh!t still going?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> It seems to me(yes my thoughts) you are testy about the moniker I used to refer to you(I only thought it posted better than BBQ,darling,sweetheart, etc)


It's funny that any other time you would post pages of crap, yet when someone actually calls you out you have nothing but one sentence to say...


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

HackWork said:


> It's funny that any other time you would post pages of crap, yet when someone actually calls you out you have nothing but one sentence to say...


Do you really want to read a 4578 word responce with out one space.?:blink::laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

gold said:


> Of all the threads getting slammed closed lately how is this Piece of sh!t still going?


 
I have given it thought, but I am to deeply involved it would have to be one of the other mods. 

Like a lawyer a conflict of interest.


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

gold said:


> Of all the threads getting slammed closed lately how is this Piece of sh!t still going?


The mods are one-sided. They will edit your post to their liking also.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> The mods are one-sided. They will edit your post to their liking also.


I apologized to you in a public forum.

I apologized to you in private.

That you are not man enough to realize mistakes are made and accept it as an accident that I fully explained, says so much about your character or lack of.

Once again I am/was sorry for my mistake.

Are the moderators one sided. I think I have adequatly explained my beliefs, more than once and they show the pluses and minues of being union. Open and fair.

As for the other moderators ask them yourself.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

anonymousbikes said:


> The mods are one-sided. They will edit your post to their liking also.


If one was to complain about moderators here, the absolute last one you should do so about is brian john. Quit being a baby.


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

brian john said:


> I apologize to you in a public forum.
> 
> I apologized to you in private.
> 
> ...



Sure is funny no other post were edited. You had the power to edit it, why don't you go ahead and put it back like it was then?


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

HackWork said:


> Quit being a baby.


I just want to fit in with the rest of you guys :thumbsup:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

anonymousbikes said:


> Sure is funny no other post were edited. You had the power to edit it, why don't you go ahead and put it back like it was then?


Because he doesn't know what was written there. Once again, the edit button is right next to the quote button, it's a common thing for moderators to do.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Moderators of vB forums suck, all of them.


Let's get back on subject guys. Thanks


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Let's get back on subject guys. Thanks


Thank you for not conforming. IT is good to mostly light hearted post, I see no need for constant darkness in our post. This is no romper room for the mild at heart, this board can be caustic at times(many times just for shiggles) If you have tender feelings then you may feel a tiny bit of stress(wow) at times on this board.All in all though no matter if we argue or agree, we have the opportunity to express our thoughts(twisted as they may be) to very little scrutiny as long as you do not verbally assault others.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Thank you for not conforming. IT is good to mostly light hearted post, I see no need for constant darkness in our post. This is no romper room for the mild at heart, this board can be caustic at times(many times just for shiggles) If you have tender feelings then you may feel a tiny bit of stress(wow) at times on this board.All in all though no matter if we argue or agree, we have the opportunity to express our thoughts(twisted as they may be) to very little scrutiny as long as you do not verbally assault others.


You have taken a few hits and stood up to it! It can get caustic and this particular topic (UNIONS) gets under the skin of both sides.


----------



## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Let's get back on subject guys. Thanks


There is a subject? I mean I know there was on like the 1st page, but after that its just union bashing and **** talking! Yet this topic stays open, interesting :whistling2:


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## Trickelcharge (Mar 4, 2011)

Brothers don't shake hands, brothers gotta hug!!!! rest in peace Chris Farley


----------



## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> The ones that call themselves "Brothers" are always the laziest POSs....just sayin......:whistling2:


This is actually kinda funny, we have a running joke at work. Normal conversation between us is done using names, but anytime we do something, on purpose or accident, that screws another electrician, we laugh it off by calling them 'brother'.

"Hey John, how was dinner last night?"
"Hey brother, you just used my last coupling."

Etc.


----------



## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

Funny random story about unions. When I joined I worked for a few months prior to being sworn in. I heard a lot of talk at work about 'riding the goat' and due to my previous service time I understood the unwritten rules of 'hazing' and getting 'jumped in' etc.

The day I got sworn in, as we finished the little ceremony thing and signed in on the books and stuff, my heart rate was going a million miles an hour and I kept my back to the wall the entire time. I was absolutely convinced I was going to get tackled and thrown in water, or made to sit on a goat, or ..whatever. I knew they'd get me but I was gonna make someone hurt before I went down.

The night ended rather anticlimactically when none of the foreseen circumstance developed, and some old crusty fella came up with pure joy on his face and shook my hand, "welcome brother"...

I'm laughing again as I post this. It was a new experience for me.:laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Demac said:


> I'm laughing again as I post this. It was a new experience for me.:laughing:


There is a lot of good work the union does and even some of the open shop men have said this. What a few members do not or will not admit is what the OP was trying to state.

The rat and and the tactics (listed as old school) are negative to the union. They do not benefit the union. THEY HURT THE UNION.

And those most vocally pro union here seem to ignore this or admit it, but only begrudgingly and then say it is only the minority of the members out of control. Did you see the idiots in the Wisconsin State House? They did nothing for the cause.

Well this may be a stretch but Osama Bin and his group is a minority, but they have done more to hurt the image of Islam around the world than anyone in centuries.

And that is the point. Get control of the idiots (and the local was aware of this as the rat is theirs), reign in the rhetoric and open up. Show open shop men why union is better, show open shops why union is better.

I was with a few members in downtown DC and the big rat was outside a hotel. With picketers acting like “A” holes*. I said stupid another member told me they are paid picketers. So the union is relying on paid picketers to present their image to the public?

Seems like a bad idea.

* The picketers were getting in the faces of arriving guest, telling them they are staying at a rat hotel. 

The Madison one of DC top hotels and in a town with average 96% hotel occupancy, so changing hotels is not an option.

I am pro union, I am not pro STUPID ACTIONS. I have stated this before, I do as much to try to enlist open shop members as anyone I know. But the “old school” crap is hard to defend, and this is one thing that riles open shop electricians.


----------



## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

brian john said:


> <snip>


Either you misunderstood me, or more likely I misunderstood you. I can get on board with pretty much your entire post. I was just dropping a bit of jocularity for some of the people whose blood pressure was inching upward...:thumbsup:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Demac said:


> Either you misunderstood me, or more likely I misunderstood you. I can get on board with pretty much your entire post. I was just dropping a bit of jocularity for some of the people whose blood pressure was inching upward...:thumbsup:


And I was agreeing with you that there are good members and good ideas and good actions in the union. All that makes the press is negativity. The union needs a good press agent.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Here's the problem Brian...

I've seen you make the same argument literally dozens of times. Most of us agree with you, the few that don't, like Noah, will NEVER change their mind. 

I've seen the dark side many times, it's not going to change, it never will. There will always be people out their inflating rats or setting up coffins, yelling how oppressed they are by the evil corporations and the other workers willing to work for table scraps. 

Unfortunately you are just wasting your keystrokes. The only realistic outcome is that the union falls completely.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I can see a lot of deficiencies within the union organization, but, I have never met a person with a union job who was sorry that he had a union job.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I can see a lot of deficiencies within the union organization, but, I have never met a person with a union job who was sorry that he had a union job.


Only because the pay and benefits are usually higher. It's hard to argue with money :laughing:

But there are a LOT of people in unions that don't get them any more money, sometimes less. These people are all angry that they were forced to join a union just to get that job. Just because you haven't met them, it doesn't mean that they aren't out there.


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> There is a lot of good work the union does and even some of the open shop men have said this. What a few members do not or will not admit is what the OP was trying to state.
> 
> The rat and and the tactics (listed as old school) are negative to the union. They do not benefit the union. THEY HURT THE UNION.
> 
> ...


Now Brian I have posted that this blow doll antic is wrong in so many ways (no matter who is responsible.)The education I offered to those who post as if they know so much about todays IBEW is that our IO is NOT into backing any thing even close to what escott posted.Another point you tried to explain is about what happened in Wisconsin.Were you there? Well I did attend only to film(documentary later) and the idiots that I witnessed was the very few that represented the Tea Party. Yes they would jump in front of others trying only to start fights.You can always trust FOX(I never did see those palm trees though)I will repost that if you read the bill you might have a different opinion of what the true cause in Wisconsin was.The union issue was merely a smoke screen to divert the publics attention away from corrupt politicians desire to rob the general public of their rights and or freedoms ( Scott Walker did not give 2 cents if you were union or not) but yes the unions did show up to defend workers(union and nonunion alike) So Brian was the protest in DC done by the IBEW? Did the IBEW pay any one to
picket and or protest for their causes? So for clarity, yes I think what escott posted was wrong by whom ever did it.I believe that union members were involved although I find it hard to believe that IO would okay any thing like this in the last decade.I am referring to the IBEW(My knowledge of other 
unions is limited) Now Brian I have work on a few occasions for the media but never had I been exposed to such a corrupt media as in Wisconsin(even some of the IBEW union media"cbs & nbc) only shot and reported the portion of news they wanted the world to see.The real news was just to boring to sell. Brian you do not seem to be lazy by your post so I would like to only ask you to please read the whole bill. No ill will only concern of the twisted facts.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Seriously Noah what does the tea party have to do with this topic?

And why were you filming a documentry? I thought you were "just a worker"

STFU!!!

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Would you all complain so much if non union people used a picture of a rat to promote thier cause or would you say that is different?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Would you all complain so much if non union people used a picture of a rat to promote thier cause or would you say that is different?


I'd still think it's one of the most obnoxious, offensive immature and rude things going. 

That blow-up rat is an eye sore and a joke! I for the life of me don't understand how the union cannot see just how stupid it makes them look.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> I'd still think it's one of the most obnoxious, offensive immature and rude things going.
> 
> That blow-up rat is an eye sore and a joke! I for the life of me don't understand how the union cannot see just how stupid it makes them look.


Sure, the rat is obnoxious and offensive, but that is their entire point.

In a way, the rat is a direct insult towards you, as a non-union contractor, so it stands to reason why you feel the way you do.

However, I have talked to people who seem to love it, and I am talking about non-union people outside of the trade. I have talked to people who said it really gets the point across.

Sure, there are a lot of people who think it's stupid and lame, myself included. But I just wanted to make it clear that it is effective to some.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I can see a lot of deficiencies within the union organization, but, I have never met a person with a union job who was sorry that he had a union job.


 Interestingly enough, I have worked with one, and currently work with another, guy who used to be union and now is not. One quit the union because he was sick of the politics and BS (so he said), and the other just found that it was easier to get a job without the union. This second guy kept himself on the books in a non-working status or something.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

"Why can't we all just get along!!"

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

HackWork said:


> In a way, the rat is a direct insult towards you, as a non-union contractor, so it stands to reason why you feel the way you do.
> 
> However, I have talked to people who seem to love it, and I am talking about non-union people outside of the trade. I have talked to people who said it really gets the point across.


That is a sad, sad statement about our society.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Sure, the rat is obnoxious and offensive, but that is their entire point.


What is their point? 'We are obnoxious and offensive'.



> However, I have talked to people who seem to love it, and I am talking about non-union people outside of the trade. I have talked to people who said it really gets the point across.


What point are these nonunion people saying is 'getting across'?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> What is their point? 'We are obnoxious and offensive'.


 You know their point, to be as insulting as possible. 



> What point are these nonunion people saying is 'getting across'?


That non-union companies are evil, horrible rats and treat their workers terribly, etc. etc. What else would make them inflate such an offensive demon and protest with such vigor, and so on...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> You know their point, to be as insulting as possible.


Why?

How does that help? 




> That non-union companies are evil, horrible rats and treat their workers terribly, etc. etc. What else would make them inflate such an offensive demon and protest with such vigor, and so on...


You must talk to different people than I do.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> That non-union companies are evil, horrible rats


The Rat is aimed at the employees not the company.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Why?
> 
> How does that help?


 You seem to want to argue with me for some reason. 

I don't know why you would choose ME to argue with about the reasoning why a union would put a rat up, especially after I clearly said that I don't agree with the practice.


> You must talk to different people than I do.


Apparently. but for some reason you seem to think that *everyone* who sees the rat automatically looks down on the people who put it up. What I am telling you is that is not true.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> The Rat is aimed at the employees not the company.


I disagree.

The large demonic rat is to symbolize the evil employer. The workers are good people being abused by the employer, the union guys out there protesting and setting up the rat are out there to help the workers, remember? :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The large demonic rat is to symbolize the evil employer. The workers are good people being abused by the employer, the union guys out there protesting and setting up the rat are out there to help the workers, remember? :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


B. U. L. L. S. H. I. T. !! They are there to destroy the non-union contractor who got the job from the general contractor who won the job legit. The union is jealous that the customer gave the Job to non-union who previously awarded a previous job union. They the " customer" got fed up with union tactics. So, the union retaliates with the big rat.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> B. U. L. L. S. H. I. T. !! They are there to destroy the non-union contractor who got the job from the general contractor who won the job legit. The union is jealous that the customer gave the Job to non-union who previously awarded a previous job union. They the " customer" got fed up with union tactics. So, the union retaliates with the big rat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


That sure is some story you got there.

The general contractor won the job legit? What the only way he can is to use union?

Where is that STFU button?

In the case of the OP the rat is there because the resturant won't hire union food service workers. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN BUILT!!!!!

So nice try with the B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T. but your the one who is full of it.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> In the case of the OP the rat is there because the resturant won't hire union food service workers. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN BUILT!!!!!
> .


No the rat is there because THE GC didn't hire a union electrical sub. So for some reason the restaurant should suffer. As if anybody actually should.


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> B. U. L. L. S. H. I. T. !! They are there to destroy the non-union contractor who got the job from the general contractor who won the job legit. The union is jealous that the customer gave the Job to non-union who previously awarded a previous job union. They the " customer" got fed up with union tactics. So, the union retaliates with the big rat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


That's some statement, you couldn't have been a local 3 journeyman.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> No the rat is there because THE GC didn't hire a union electrical sub. So for some reason the restaurant should suffer. As if anybody actually should.


 
OHHHH

That makes it even more f-ed up

I was working at a supermarket that just opened up about 10 years ago. The guy didn't hire unionized workers so they put up the rat and picketed the place. Telling shoppers on thier way in that there were rats and cockroaches in the store.

I was swapping out wall packs on the outside of the place and some union scum walked over and started harrasing my helper who was holding the ladder for me. you should have seen him jump when the lamp slipped out of my hand and exploded at his feet.

A couple of goons came over as we were packing it up. They were all talking tough until I pulled out the 1 1/4 pipe bender and I asked them if I could get in some batting practice. :lol:


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> That sure is some story you got there.
> 
> The general contractor won the job legit? What the only way he can is to use union?
> 
> ...


 You look handsome in that picture.. Did you pluck your nose hairs recently, it looks like you colored your hair I love the new color.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Sparky3 said:


> That's some statement, you couldn't have been a local 3 journeyman.


Of course I am!!! You must also be one too!!

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> OHHHH
> 
> That makes it even more f-ed up
> 
> ...


You must instill fear when you look in the mirror.LOL


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

alOn the local news here in So-Cal it seems that Pinks Tacos used a pink donkey for an advertisement and now there are 40 or so protesters in front of the eatery with a picket signs and all. Not one has been identified as having any affiliation with any known union. Escott you do not seem(by your post) to be hostile in any fashion in regards to this thread, so why are others posting like some one pooped in their hard hat? This is a negative issue but please do not allow it to get the best of your emotions to where you post unfriendly post or even initials that are meant to stimulate a more vulgar side of us all.(similar to the way children communicate) Now if a pissing contest is what you wish then go out side whip it out and when the police show up you will be cited with minor possession. Really this board is enough entertainment with out the bravado.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Noah,

When the union forum was started I thought (knew) that it could get out of hand on occasion and it would be a back and forth contensious topic.

The fact is some (many?) open shop men have been mistreated by union members (not just the IBEW). Called names, damaged vehicles, damaged equipment on jobs, slighted by being told they are not qualified, they have no right to work. When some are fortunate enough to get in the local many union members look down on them and never accept them.

The OP brought up something the union does regularly around the nation, not individual members but sanctioned protest using the inflatable RAT. Most open shop men I know despise this freaking RAT and see it as typical manifestation of union bullying.

So now the union is losing membership, can’t keep their men working, faltering and some men that have put up with “OLD SCHOOL” union tactics, are thinking maybe the birds have come home to roost.

You ask for kindness, where was that kindness when I was a 17, year old apprentice and union men would not let us on the elevator because we were scabs? When the union men poured mastic in our conduits? When I tried to get in the local several times and was told the years I worked open shop meant nothing? When I got in and the whiners continuously called the hall on me? When the president of the local refused to shake my hand in a crowd of brothers because “I was that guy”? There is more than this items that make me dislike the “OLD SCHOOL “ tactics and I am sure other men could attest to the similar issues.

But the RAT issue came home to me when hired thugs got in my 23 year old daughters face, while she was entering a building she worked in. SO sorry to say but YOU have an uphill battle and and crap thrown your way was earned over the years. Crying to drain the swamp when you are up to your tushie in alligators won’t fly from most open shop men I know.

YOU/WE/THE UNION HAVE TO MAKE THIS RIGHT, not the other side.

Take a razor knife to all the RATS for starters.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> When I was told the years I worked open shop meant nothing?


Brian, this is often done in many locals. I believe it was you who once said how it's not accurate that the union promotes their members as highly trained when many of them were organized and trained elsewhere. I know a lot of people who worked open shop and later joined the union, but were forced to join at 3rd or 4th year apprentice level, depending on their experience. None of them that I spoke to seemed to mind because 3rd year rate is more than they were making before they joined the union. This works out well because it eliminates the problem of organized men not being trained to the same standard, as you brought up in the past (I'm pretty sure it was you).


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah,
> 
> When the union forum was started I thought (knew) that it could get out of hand on occasion and it would be a back and forth contensious topic.
> 
> ...


Bravo! :clap::clap:

-John


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> A couple of goons came over as we were packing it up. They were all talking tough until I pulled out the 1 1/4 pipe bender and I asked them if I could get in some batting practice. :lol:


Good thing they were wearing their boots! :laughing:


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

brian john said:


> You ask for kindness, where was that kindness when I was a 17, year old apprentice and union men would not let us on the elevator because we were scabs? When the union men poured mastic in our conduits? When I tried to get in the local several times and was told the years I worked open shop meant nothing? When I got in and the whiners continuously called the hall on me? When the president of the local refused to shake my hand in a crowd of brothers because “I was that guy”? There is more than this items that make me dislike the “OLD SCHOOL “ tactics and I am sure other men could attest to the similar issues.


Just curious, but why after all that did you still pursue the union path, and then go on to be a union contractor?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Just curious, but why after all that did you still pursue the union path, and then go on to be a union contractor?


It's easier to make a difference from the inside.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> Just curious, but why after all that did you still pursue the union path, and then go on to be a union contractor?


I was topped out open shop, getting a divorce and the wife was a government employee, needed insurance. I was called one night at home and made a good offer. That accepted me for what I was.

I have explained before why I went union. I had been union for sometime, the contacts I had all required a union shop and I have felt from day one that union is the best thing for men. I feel employees deserve a good wage and good benefits.

I would do it all the same again. I believe in the idea of union I do not believe in the some of the crap that comes from misguided members.

Hiring unemployed non-union workers to man picket lines with the RAT is BS to the extreme.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> I was topped out open shop, getting a divorce and the wife was a government employee, needed insurance. I was called one night at home and made a good offer. That accepted me for what I was.
> 
> I have explained before why I went union. I had been union for sometime, the contacts I had all required a union shop and I have felt from day one that union is the best thing for men. I feel employees deserve a good wage and good benefits.
> 
> ...


Now Brian you are posting in a skewed manner because of the treatment you received in the past and your daughter lately? I did contact Ed an questioned if IO backed this antic? No was the answer but because of freedom of speech he could not force those men and or locals from this sort of activity.So your report about other unions? I am sure you realize just because a group puts union somewhere in their name or just claim to be a union does not mean they are associated with the building and trades yet you have added that they have paid thugs to picket for them as if to associate with a credible union such as the IBEW. Now if you crossed a picket line at 17 but are to young to retire(as you posted earlier) then besides getting in the middle of violating a possible contract(not enough detail) or you yourself may have intended to violate some child labor law(again not enough data) Now on to your point about me asking for kindness, maybe you misunderstood a plea for humanity for a weakness. I ask all to question if their motives are serving any good towards mankind or just to harm others?
I was ask to come help(not paid) in Wisconsin with a non profit organization to live stream this event.I was not allowed to protest in any manner(as part of the media) and was responsible for my own expenses(slept on a Brothers couch or floor)
Brian I do have well wishes for you and your family with any problems such as the abuse you have posted of before.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Noah, your posts suck.
They look like someone mashing there fingers across the keyboard.
I would say more but I could not bring myself to take the time necessary to translate whatever you wrote.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

..................<removed>..................


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Just curious, but why after all that did you still pursue the union path, and then go on to be a union contractor?


 
I already know the answer..nevermind


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Noah,

You will never get it. You are the loving parent enabling the addicted son.

IBEW, SEIU, AFL-CIO, Teamsters, union this union that. It makes no difference which union. In this country all unions are grouped under one big umbrella. My daughters issue lead her to make a comment UNIONS suck. Not a particular union but ALL UNIONS.

When the unions in France pull their stupid strikes over some issue. The population in our country does not say of the French Waiters union is protesting. The comment from the majority of people I know is union have to much control in France, we can't let that happen here

So spin away Noah, but, something has to be done to stop the downward spiral and the continual burying your head in the sand ain't it.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I can't help but to wonder how much more effective Noah would be if he wrote in a style that is more easily understood.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah,
> 
> You will never get it. You are the loving parent enabling the addicted son.
> 
> ...


Yet you yourself are a proclaimed owner of an union shop who condemns the unions with no productive solutions. I find this to be a double negative. You are asking in your post for others to change, what have you done to help with this issue because surely it directly affects your business? The American civil liberty union(is this also a union?) So what your post states is that if we are all Americans and one American wrongs another we should all bear their weight? No all unions are not the same.Years ago while salting I applied for through an ad in the paper of an multi-craft union(ended up being a person from another country who would hire you,charge dues, then skip town ) In my previous post I meant no ill will towards you or your family only that in time things will improve.Now for others to make snide remarks with an apparent attempt to stir ones ire, well I am sure they will help someone somewhere one day.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> I can't help but to wonder how much more effective Noah would be if he wrote in a style that is more easily understood.


 
There is nothing more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge. 
*Hunter S. Thompson*


​


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Yet you yourself are a proclaimed owner of an union shop who condemns the unions with no productive solutions. I find this to be a double negative. You are asking in your post for others to change, what have you done to help with this issue because surely it directly affects your business? The American civil liberty union(is this also a union?) So what your post states is that if we are all Americans and one American wrongs another we should all bear their weight? No all unions are not the same.Years ago while salting I applied for through an ad in the paper of an multi-craft union(ended up being a person from another country who would hire you,charge dues, then skip town ) In my previous post I meant no ill will towards you or your family only that in time things will improve.Now for others to make snide remarks with an apparent attempt to stir ones ire, well I am sure they will help someone somewhere one day.


He IS saying stop the negativity and build up the image, but you choose not to listen. That is the biggest problem of all. The lack of listening and understanding. Brothers want more money for their paycheck / benefit funds, but do not care if it will GREATLY effect their contractor. 

What happens if ALL the Union contractors give up.....30% of them are gone in this area.....

Where did they all go? Hmmmm....

What happens if ALL the customers will not let union contractors on *their* job site. We have lost jobs, even though we were the low bidder, because the *owner* refused to let union contractors do *his* work.

Food for thought....this whole debate reminds me of a line in the movie "Syriana."

Edit, now that I think of it a line from "Rush Hour" as well.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Rush hour - 

"It seems as if you like to talk. I like to let people talk who like to talk. It lets me see how full of **** they are. -what the hell did you just say?"


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

My brother in law is a union guy. he is a retired meat pac worker that went after his electrical license when the Hispanics started taking over the industry. Came to me after he retired. Worked for a few years and didn't know **** about electrical.
So he decided to go union. worked for a while when there were big jobs going. Now his does handy man crap as he wait for the union to call him up. The family wants me to hire him but, I am like "He had his chance, let him sit the bench" 
Am I such a bad person?


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

sbrn33 said:


> My brother in law is a union guy. he is a retired meat pac worker that went after his electrical license when the Hispanics started taking over the industry. Came to me after he retired. Worked for a few years and didn't know **** about electrical.
> So he decided to go union. worked for a while when there were big jobs going. Now his does handy man crap as he wait for the union to call him up. The family wants me to hire him but, I am like "He had his chance, let him sit the bench"
> Am I such a bad person?


Your mad at the man because he went a different direction then you?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh no not at all.
Just saying that he wonders why he can't find work. When he had good work to start with.
No, I love the guy.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Yet you yourself are a proclaimed owner of an union shop who condemns the unions with no productive solutions.one day.


 
Noah,

I DO NOT CONDEM THE UNIONS. I condemn their stupid ways, I condemn taking a raise in the middle of a recession, I condemn those with blinders on that continue down a road to nowhere.

I have plenty of productive solutions, but you are not listening, nor do you care to. I have listed these over and over, which proves you are not listening.

In addition I have given this tons of thought over the last 12-18 months and in particular the last month. In addition I have talked to union members. And I am convinced that unfortunatly the unions are too entrenched with die hard brothers (your term not mine) that, do not want to change, will not change and will ride the union to a 1%-3% market share. BECAUSE THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE UNION NOT CHANGING, or are too pig headed to realize change is required.

The working men have little say so in this ride.

Now if the economy makes a drastic turn around, all I posetd might go out the window.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Noah, quick question for you. Have you ever installed a single piece of electrical equipment in your life?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Noah, quick question for you. Have you ever installed a single piece of electrical equipment in your life?


Does plugging in the blower for an inflatable rat count? :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Does plugging in the blower for an inflatable rat count? :laughing:


They hire non-union labor under the table for those tasks.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Does plugging in the blower for an inflatable rat count? :laughing:


:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Does plugging in the blower for an inflatable rat count? :laughing:


 
I am laughing my tushie off on that one.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> They hire non-union labor under the table for those tasks.


Do they keep a non-union guy around to keep the burring barrel fed too?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Does plugging in the blower for an inflatable rat count? :laughing:



You do raise a good point. What if it's determined that the power source was installed by non-union labor? And if a generator is needed, does the generator have to be made with union labor? What about the extension cord? Nothing Chinese would be allowed of course!


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

brian john said:


> I am laughing my tushie off on that one.


I can't help it, I am too. :thumbup:

Roger


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah,
> 
> I DO NOT CONDEM THE UNIONS. I condemn their stupid ways, I condemn taking a raise in the middle of a recession, I condemn those with blinders on that continue down a road to nowhere.
> 
> ...


Your solution always turns to others doing something instead of your self it seems to me(this may be why you receive so much resistance ?) Now for your comment on the die hard brothers being my words (yes I have made this statement but that in itself does not constitute ownership) You have not given us all the skinny on your position except that your an owner of an union shop that wants the union members to take all these concessions and change many of their ways(because you think its a must for the IBEW to survive) Now from what you have posted you can not deny that your stance would be biased against the workers getting any raise. One thing would make sense in this case would be a government job(I think you mentioned this) that requires the contractors to hire through the halls (many DOE and DOD have this stipulation) so your required to pay all employees lets say $68 an hour package and you on the other hand get $96 for every hour worked under your contract(no matter how productive, unless your on a hard bid "RARE" ) but you have frustration from lack of control over many issues(hours on end discussion) which you want others to change to suit your liking because after all you are the boss? I know many union contractors who come up through the ranks yet through the thought of doing business really lost interest in IBEW's best interest so what is the burning desire from within to help us help ourself so much?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Your solution always turns to others doing something instead of your self it seems to me(this may be why you receive so much resistance ?) Now for your comment on the die hard brothers being my words (yes I have made this statement but that in itself does not constitute ownership) You have not given us all the skinny on your position except that your an owner of an union shop that wants the union members to take all these concessions and change many of their ways(because you think its a must for the IBEW to survive) Now from what you have posted you can not deny that your stance would be biased against the workers getting any raise. One thing would make sense in this case would be a government job(I think you mentioned this) that requires the contractors to hire through the halls (many DOE and DOD have this stipulation) so your required to pay all employees lets say $68 an hour package and you on the other hand get $96 for every hour worked under your contract(no matter how productive, unless your on a hard bid "RARE" ) but you have frustration from lack of control over many issues(hours on end discussion) which you want others to change to suit your liking because after all you are the boss? I know many union contractors who come up through the ranks yet through the thought of doing business really lost interest in IBEW's best interest so what is the burning desire from within to help us help ourself so much?


The , space , bar ,would , help ,


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Noah, quick question for you. Have you ever installed a single piece of electrical equipment in your life?


Well Petey nice of you to ask. I have actually installed a fan,light, and heater in a dog house(not a joke) as well as a few other slightly more taxing projects. What do you have in mind?If this a trick sex question then I must tell you my wife has shown a jealous side before.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The , space , bar ,would , help ,


Thank you Harry.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The , space , bar ,would , help ,





Brother Noah said:


> Thank you Harry.


Noah, all kidding and ball busting aside your posts are very hard to read ......... really ......... use the enter key to break the post up.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Oh no not at all.
> Just saying that he wonders why he can't find work. When he had good work to start with.
> No, I love the guy.


Have you taught him your lesson yet?


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Noah, all kidding and ball busting aside your posts are very hard to read ......... really ......... use the enter key to break the post up.


As many times as he has been asked and then chosen to ignore the suggestions, I would say it has become flat out refusal on his part to take suggestions from any member trying to help him with his poor typing skills


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Unions should be disbanded they serve no useful purpose in todays economy. We should also get rid of minimum wagw why should an employer be forced to pay what the government says it should be between the employer and the employee. Overtime is another one we need to trash why should i have to pay 1 1/2 times what I pay just because I went over 40 hours?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Mr Rewire said:


> Overtime is another one we need to trash why should i have to pay 1 1/2 times what I pay just because I went over 40 hours?


Simply to avoid bosses who will work their employees to death and not give them extra comp.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Unions should be disbanded they serve no useful purpose in todays economy. We should also get rid of minimum wagw why should an employer be forced to pay what the government says it should be between the employer and the employee. Overtime is another one we need to trash why should i have to pay 1 1/2 times what I pay just because I went over 40 hours?


Can you point to one person in this thread (other than maybe Harry) that has said unions should be disbanded?


It seems that both Brian and I feel the unions serve an important purpose but need to smarten up and face the changing landscape.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Hey Noah,

Take a look at this post http://www.electriciantalk.com/f26/local-3-a-23972/#post446368 for both it's content and the fact that is long but still easy to read.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Hey Noah,
> 
> Take a look at this post http://www.electriciantalk.com/f26/local-3-a-23972/#post446368 for both it's content and the fact that is long but still easy to read.


For a different view I guess this post is educational? Last time I worked out of local 3 they had a sub fund that would supplement your ui (about $500 a week) so comparing being out of work in a situation where you have near $1000 a week coming end is by no means what I believe to be poverty stricken. 
Now although your other remark is viable it too has become some what trite. I lay no claim to being an English scholar and if this is where one chooses to complain then, I find this in poor taste compared to our other more dire issues at hand. I am passionate about the unions.I agree we have problems as well as all others have problems. I do believe if the unions were not here then, oh yes then many contractors would be in their own sort of heaven, and abuse would become rampant on all workers( I realize my phobias are not a proven fact.) What many fail to understand (union and nonunion) is the unions are suppose to create better working and or living conditions for all workers not just their members. We should work for what we receive in compensation, to ensure the contractors earn money in order for them to continue to hire in the future. We should be allotted H&W and retirement for plying our trade as part of our pay. Yes those in the construction end of the business will go without work some times and may have to travel. Yes there is always the possibility of corruption within the unions just as with all aspects of life. 
I have also found a family style of caring within the rank and file members, that will extend a helping hand to those in need.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rewire,

One does not have to be anti-union to feel there are issues that need corrected. Just as someone can protest against our government and still be pro-American.

I am not a love it or leave it kind of guy.


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> I lay no claim to being an English scholar and if this is where one chooses to complain then,


You don't have to be an English scholar to hit the enter button and break up your posts a little, or is it your intent to make them hard to read?

You must know somebody that can show you how to use a keyboard.

Roger


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> One does not have to be anti-union to feel there are issues that need corrected. Just as someone can protest against our government and still be pro-American.


It is just that simple and it is baffling why everyone can't understand it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Now although your other remark is viable it too has become some what trite. I lay no claim to being an English scholar and if this is where one chooses to complain then, I find this in poor taste compared to our other more dire issues at hand.


It was not a complaint as much as helpful suggestion.

You obviously spend some time typing the posts, I can only assume you want your words to be read. Hitting the enter key at the end of a train of thought is not rocket science. 

But do whatever you want, I really don't care if people read your posts or not.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

I stopped reading noah's posts some months back. It's difficult and time consuming.
Maybe he has some excellent commentary, I hope he finds the enter key.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> It was not a complaint as much as helpful suggestion.
> 
> You obviously spend some time typing the posts, I can only assume you want your words to be read. Hitting the enter key at the end of a train of thought is not rocket science.
> 
> But do whatever you want, I really don't care if people read your posts or not.


LOL thank you for your concern.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

K2500 said:


> I stopped reading noah's posts some months back. It's difficult and time consuming.
> Maybe he has some excellent commentary, I hope he finds the enter key.


You are not missing a thing. :laughing:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Yes the nay sayers are correct in that my writing abilities have something to be desired and then you have those that they merely wish to help the unions by dictating what they should change.(making sure to steer clear of doing anything their self) Why would a union contractor be so concerned about the IBEW welfare unless it benefited their company in a monetary fashion? I have not intention to overtly offend any of the working class but I do believe in the union ideals and make sacrifices to further its cause(I do not get paid for this dedication) Yes people in unions make mistakes just as all walks of life but I just have become accustom to getting paid for the work I do and leaving my job free from injury, having H&W and Retirement as part of my hourly package. Now if my post are offensive(please do not read) but if your wish not to read my post because the content does not agree with your logic(well then that would seem like a camel sticking his head in the sand)


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I stopped reading before the 5th word. Seriously, if you want to be the spokesman for all things holy and union hire a stenographer.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> hire a stenographer.


Is there a stenographer's union? He can't be hiring just any rat stenographer off the street.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

As long as it's not a big commercial stenography job the union doesn't care if he uses one of the guys on the side.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

You guys crack me up, do you use your own dialog at time also?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Yes the nay sayers are correct in that my writing abilities have something to be desired and then you have those that they merely wish to help the unions by dictating what they should change.(making sure to steer clear of doing anything their self) Why would a union contractor be so concerned about the IBEW welfare unless it benefited their company in a monetary fashion? I have not intention to overtly offend any of the working class but I do believe in the union ideals and make sacrifices to further its cause(I do not get paid for this dedication) Yes people in unions make mistakes just as all walks of life but I just have become accustom to getting paid for the work I do and leaving my job free from injury, having H&W and Retirement as part of my hourly package. Now if my post are offensive(please do not read) but if your wish not to read my post because the content does not agree with your logic(*well then that would seem like a camel sticking his head in the sand*)



Funny choice of words coming from you.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Funny choice of words coming from you.


 There was a reason behind that rhyme.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Yes the nay sayers are correct in that my writing abilities have something to be desired and then you have those that they merely wish to help the unions by dictating what they should change.(making sure to steer clear of doing anything their self) Why would a union contractor be so concerned about the IBEW welfare unless it benefited their company in a monetary fashion? I have not intention to overtly offend any of the working class but I do believe in the union ideals and make sacrifices to further its cause(I do not get paid for this dedication) Yes people in unions make mistakes just as all walks of life but I just have become accustom to getting paid for the work I do and leaving my job free from injury, having H&W and Retirement as part of my hourly package. Now if my post are offensive(please do not read) but if your wish not to read my post because the content does not agree with your logic(well then that would seem like a camel sticking his head in the sand)


I thought Ostriches did that! Re; last line in parentheses.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

The Ostrich does not hide it head in the sand though it is a old saying.

From WIKI



A camel is an even-toed ungulate within the genus Camelus, bearing distinctive fatty deposits, known as humps, on its back. There are two species of camels: the dromedary or Arabian camel has a single hump, and the Bactrian Camel has two humps. Dromedaries are native to the dry desert areas of West Asia, and Bactrian camels are native to Central and East Asia. Both species are domesticated; they provide milk and meat, and are beasts of burden.
The term camel, (from the Hebrew גמל, ǧml, derived from the triconsonantal root signifying "beauty"), is also used more broadly to describe any of the six camel-like creatures in the family Camelidae: the two true camels, and the four South American camelids: the llama, alpaca, guanaco, and vicuña.
The average life expectancy of a camel is 40 to 50 years. A fully grown adult camel stands 1.85 m (6 ft 1 in) at the shoulder and 2.15 m (7 ft 1 in) at the hump. The hump rises about 30 in (76.20 cm) out of its body. Camels can run at up to 65 km/h (40 mph) in short bursts and sustain speeds of up to 40 km/h (25 mph).


The Ostrich, (Struthio camelus), is a large flightless bird native to Africa. It is the only living species of its family, Struthionidae and its genus, Struthio. Ostriches share the order Struthioniformes with the kiwis, emus, and other ratites. It is distinctive in its appearance, with a long neck and legs and the ability to run at maximum speeds of about 97.5 kilometres per hour (60.6 mph), the top land speed of any bird.[3][4] The Ostrich is the largest living species of bird and lays the largest egg of any living bird (extinct elephant birds of Madagascar and the giant moa of New Zealand did lay larger eggs).
The diet of the Ostrich mainly consists of plant matter, though it also eats invertebrates. It lives in nomadic groups which contain between five and fifty birds. When threatened, the Ostrich will either hide itself *by lying flat against the ground,* or will run away. If cornered, it can attack with a kick from its powerful legs. Mating patterns differ by geographical region, but territorial males fight for a harem of two to seven females. These fights usually last just minutes, but they can easily cause death through slamming their heads into opponents.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> Unions should be disbanded they serve no useful purpose in todays economy. We should also get rid of minimum wagw why should an employer be forced to pay what the government says it should be between the employer and the employee. Overtime is another one we need to trash why should i have to pay 1 1/2 times what I pay just because I went over 40 hours?


 This is sarcasm right? If not you have issues and if thats how you really feel you should be the first to experience your new S### wage and 80 hour work week.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rust said:


> This is sarcasm right? If not you have issues and if thats how you really feel you should be the first to experience your new S### wage and 80 hour work week.


niether would happen the intent of the minimum wage is to control wages and that is why it is set at such a low level without all the wage controls in place wages would go way up that is how the free market works,,

Take a look at how employer paid health insurence came about,,

In the 1940's Employers started offering health insurence to bypass the governments wage controls to keep emplyee's because they were not allowed to give higher wages,,,"Hence the phrase wage inflation"

And they are still doing it right now with tax incentives and other sneaky tools to keep wages low.

That is why CEO's get big bonuses verses high salary's


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> niether would happen the intent of the minimum wage is to control wages and that is why it is set at such a low level without all the wage controls in place wages would go way up that is how the free market works,,


I think my head just exploded.

Did you just say the governments minimum wage requirements keep wages down? 




> In the 1940's Employers started offering health insurence to bypass the governments wage controls to keep emplyee's because they were not allowed to give higher wages,,,"Hence the phrase wage inflation"


What?????????????



> And they are still doing it right now with tax incentives and other sneaky tools to keep wages low.



Harry, companies do not need incentives to keep wages _down_. 



> That is why CEO's get big bonuses verses high salary's


Harry ......... they get both.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I think my head just exploded.
> 
> Did you just say the governments minimum wage requirements keep wages down?
> 
> ...


The info is all out there google is your friend.

My insurence company sent me a letter about the tax deductions that i can use for poviding my Employees with health insurence as long as the wages i pay is $50,000 or less otherwise that tax break get canned,,

Gee i wonder why that is in the new health care law...??


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I think my head just exploded.
> 
> Did you just say the governments minimum wage requirements keep wages down?
> 
> ...





> Harry, companies do not need incentives to keep wages _down_.


Yes they do and the gov makes sure of it through regulation..

Wich is better for insurence companys when it comes to workmans comp..

An employee that makes $250,000 per year or $25,000 per year you make the call.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes they do and the gov makes sure of it through regulation..
> 
> Wich is better for insurence companys when it comes to workmans comp..
> 
> An employee that makes $250,000 per year or $25,000 per year you make the call.


Come on Harry you are joking right?Harry? Any way the last time I checked workman comp in Mass there was a cap of $1365 pay out a week no matter if you made over a million a year, so common sense leads us to believe there would also be a cap on the premiums charged per employee based on their personal income.Now if your firm has over a certain amount of your employees getting hurt then odds are you will pay more for your insurance. I wonder if its on google then does that make it a fact? The web is a wonderful and dangerous adventure that has shown to skew the average brain(okay I was born that way)


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I hate to say it but Harry is correct about the birth of employer provided health insurance. The labor unions like to take full credit for fringe benefits but the fact is, federal wage freezes during WWII forced employers to get creative in order to attract workers to meet wartime production schedules.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Here are two fun stories, _kind of_ related.

1. I had *just started* in the work force @ 19 years old in 1971. I was making just over minimum wage. The federal government thought it would be a good idea to freeze wages in orfer to get a handle on inflation.

Nice. I'm stuck at $1.65 an hour. :jester:

2. A few years later I had gotten into electrical work and, due to a course of events, ended up in an IBEW apprenticship program. The schooling was really good but the politics were not my style so I quit after a year. 

Right after I left, a head national IBEW guy from came to town for a meeting with the local business manager about some shenanigans. 

The local guy pulls a *pistol* out of his desk and shoots the national guy. *That's old school union tactics!! *When I read about it in the paper, I realized I made the right move.

This had to be about 1976. I have been looking on the net for archived news reports but haven't found any. I do know the guys name was Glynn Ross and that he was expelled from the IBEW.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Come on Harry you are joking right?Harry? Any way the last time I checked workman comp in Mass there was a cap of $1365 pay out a week no matter if you made over a million a year, so common sense leads us to believe there would also be a cap on the premiums charged per employee based on their personal income.Now if your firm has over a certain amount of your employees getting hurt then odds are you will pay more for your insurance. I wonder if its on google then does that make it a fact? The web is a wonderful and dangerous adventure that has shown to skew the average brain(okay I was born that way)


$1365 per week,,,Hmmm the majority of people that live here take home 1/2 that per week so the insurence co's don't have much to worry about.

As with any news article it is up to you to deside if it is fact or fiction,, Remember there is an agenda behind everthing you read from any "news" source.

I am no longer in the business of Employing people if i need help i call one of the other one man shops around here it is so much cheaper than have all the paper work and every other head ake that comes with this states stupid Employee/employor rules and regs that are there to keep the money out of the hands of the Employed..."Hence the phrase wage control"


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> $1365 per week,,,Hmmm the majority of people that live here take home 1/2 that per week so the insurence co's don't have much to worry about.
> 
> As with any news article it is up to you to deside if it is fact or fiction,, Remember there is an agenda behind everthing you read from any "news" source.
> 
> I am no longer in the business of Employing people if i need help i call one of the other one man shops around here it is so much cheaper than have all the paper work and every other head ake that comes with this states stupid Employee/employor rules and regs that are there to keep the money out of the hands of the Employed..."Hence the phrase wage control"


Now Harry this I can understand, and agree with. I am no where close to being as radical with my ideals as say the wobbly's but I feel that those who performed the actual work within the construction field should get what they deserve. I also think the contractors enable the construction to happen should receive their fair portion, but as a norm the greed for the dollar almost always gets in the way of whats actually fair.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Now Harry this I can understand, and agree with. I am no where close to being as radical with my ideals as say the wobbly's but I feel that those who performed the actual work within the construction field should get what they deserve. I also think the contractors enable the construction to happen should receive their fair portion, but as a norm the greed for the dollar almost always gets in the way of whats actually fair.





> but I feel that those who performed the actual work within the construction field should get what they deserve


So do i at least we can agree on somthing..:thumbsup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Now Harry this I can understand, and agree with. I am no where close to being as radical with my ideals as say the wobbly's but I feel that those who performed the actual work within the construction field should get what they deserve. I also think the contractors enable the construction to happen should receive their fair portion, but as a norm the greed for the dollar almost always gets in the way of whats actually fair.


But what makes it up to you and your ilk to decide what the number should be and why if I as the actual business owner disagree you try to derail my business.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Now Harry this I can understand, and agree with. I am no where close to being as radical with my ideals as say the wobbly's but I feel that those who performed the actual work within the construction field should get what they deserve. I also think the contractors enable the construction to happen should receive their fair portion, but as a norm the greed for the dollar almost always gets in the way of whats actually fair.


 
Who decides what's fair?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Theres only one way to settle this.
:boxing:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> But what makes it up to you and your ilk to decide what the number should be and why if I as the actual business owner disagree you try to derail my business.


Now escott why do they have to be considered MY ILK? We should all know by now that unions formed to protect the working class from numerous years of abuse at the hands of slave driving owners.The safety or well being were not up for consideration.Along the way unions have been targeted by organized goons who also had ill will intent for the greed of the dollar and yes the unions have made mistakes in their journey to protect the working class. A far as who decides what.Unions sit down with contractors to mediate an agreed contract that will benefit both the contractors and the workers. Who decides for you?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Now escott why do they have to be considered MY ILK? We should all know by now that unions formed to protect the working class from numerous years of abuse at the hands of slave driving owners.The safety or well being were not up for consideration.Along the way unions have been targeted by organized goons who also had ill will intent for the greed of the dollar and yes the unions have made mistakes in their journey to protect the working class. A far as who decides what.Unions sit down with contractors to mediate an agreed contract that will benefit both the contractors and the workers. Who decides for you?



First, I decide for me. If I don't like what I'm offered, I look elsewhere.

Second, in regards to the rest of your reply, see first post of this thread.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Now escott why do they have to be considered MY ILK? We should all know by now that unions formed to protect the working class from numerous years of abuse at the hands of slave driving owners.The safety or well being were not up for consideration.Along the way unions have been targeted by organized goons who also had ill will intent for the greed of the dollar and yes the unions have made mistakes in their journey to protect the working class. A far as who decides what.Unions sit down with contractors to mediate an agreed contract that will benefit both the contractors and the workers. Who decides for you?


 Who decides for you? 

I M O, you should be able to decide for yourself.:blink:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Who decides for you?
> 
> I M O, you should be able to decide for yourself.:blink:


 Now ask your self why would some one who owns a home in Georgia, work and reside in California? After getting information on which locals that will have work for travelers and the monetary logic of the adventure adds up, I choose where to go to work. Now there have been occasions when I have went to other locals for the benefit of others again because I decided too. If you wish to go deeper if we are unsatisfied with our contracts because we feel that a BM's has not done their job properly then we have the option of making efforts to elect another to represent us(sorta like every citizen elects those who are suppose represent the voters, which does not always happen) As far as the intent of a contract, as a norm a BM, maybe a few Ba's, and an IO rep along with a possible lawyer or two usually represent the workers side of our contracts(I am told they do pretty darn good job)


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Just saying ...


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

I think the ABC's rat is bigger.


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