# Lutron Caseta or RA



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Caseta has come a long way especially with the Caseta Pro Line... Why go through the troubles of RA? 

Getting ready to design a smart home and it’s pretty elaborate yet after looking at both models I still don’t have a need for RA.. 

just wondering what is the deciding factor to use RA versions VS. much simpler and user friendly Caseta systems? 


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

WronGun said:


> Caseta has come a long way especially with the Caseta Pro Line... Why go through the troubles of RA?
> 
> Getting ready to design a smart home and it’s pretty elaborate yet after looking at both models I still don’t have a need for RA..
> 
> ...


Caseta only supports 50 devices. 

RA supports 100.

Radio RA2 supports 200.

If you go with RA, you can later upgrade to Radio RA2. 

Caseta devices are only for Caseta. If you need more devices once you hit 50 you'll have to spend more money to change everything. 

I learned all this from a Lutron rep last week. Wish I'd have known before I bought all Caseta. 

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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Caseta only supports 50 devices.
> 
> RA supports 100.
> 
> ...




Ok but couldn’t you just add another bridge to the Caseta system to expand over 50?



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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

WronGun said:


> Ok but couldn’t you just add another bridge to the Caseta system to expand over 50?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not as far as I know. It only supports one hub. You can use a plug in dimmer (the first one you connect to the system) as a repeater to extend the range but as far as I know, it's 50 devices and that's it with Caseta.

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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have RA2 at home, just to learn it. I took the class and have the software. It has worked flawlessly. I just use it for basic things like outdoor lighting and a few rooms with dimmers that I can control with my phone. I have two repeaters to cover the whole house. I'd have to think carefully about installing in a customer's home. Like all of the wifi, remote control, phone app stuff, I don't want to get stuck with any lingering trouble, though I haven't had any. I use Caseta stuff for basic wireless switching scenarios all the time with success too. I've used Vive as well.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The smart home thing is relative. How complex is the scheme? Is it just basic switching and dimming at most locations? Does it need to include thermostats too? If it does, it may be wise to pick the thermostats ahead of time so there isn't a bunch of "integration" to do. Sometimes its just better to have multiple apps for things. One of my customers has his pool controls on an app from the pool pump manufacturer and wanted to integrate everything into one app. I said you could probably do that but it's out of my league.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

nrp3 said:


> The smart home thing is relative. How complex is the scheme? Is it just basic switching and dimming at most locations? Does it need to include thermostats too? If it does, it may be wise to pick the thermostats ahead of time so there isn't a bunch of "integration" to do. Sometimes its just better to have multiple apps for things. One of my customers has his pool controls on an app from the pool pump manufacturer and wanted to integrate everything into one app. I said you could probably do that but it's out of my league.


All the smart system makers want to take over the world, their dream is to have everything in their platform. Besides the traditional motivation - the money - they also get to pore over ALL your behavior to profile you. 

The installer likes that too - just one thing to learn, sell, install and support rather than a bunch. 

That always winds up a compromise for the consumer, I'd rather have the best camera app, the best thermostat app, the best lighting app, the best music app, etc., rather than a single app that does some well, some OK, some not great. 

What is the motive for the end user to have it all in one app? Building monopolies isn't good for the consumer so that's not it. Do I give a rats ass that I get to it all with just one icon on my phone's home screen to tap? No I do not.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

As for Caseta - I can't imagine there's any real reason, no reason the system can't address more than 50 devices, it's just an artificial limit they build into the system. I just assume that the 50 device limit is so they can continue to sell their more expensive product where there are deeper pockets to drain. 

It's a funny thing because the Caseta line might be built on better base technology and is forced to compete with the more active low end market - very possible it's the superior product. So RA costs more but it's not as good.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I think if you are going into this, either have someone who is good at setting these up if its more than a handful of devices or consider farming out the programming or maybe the whole thing. You can do a crazy amount of things with these, scenes, shades, garage doors, geo fencing. Just be careful about what you promise the customer.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

It was interesting to talk about what was the reason behind all the levels of these systems. Integration with Apple products was initially a Caseta thing. Then it seems there was a mid tier Ra2, that would give you ability to have more devices, maybe without taking a class. I tried Ra2 because I thought if I didn't start learning some of these things, I'd be left behind. The guys in the class were far ahead of me and this was something they worked with on a daily basis. As I mentioned, I'd be careful about what you promise unless you know you can deliver.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

splatz said:


> I just assume that the 50 device limit is so they can continue to sell their more expensive product where there are deeper pockets to drain. .



When I took the Caseta class, that is exactly what the instructor/salesman said. 



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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

nrp3 said:


> I think if you are going into this, either have someone who is good at setting these up if its more than a handful of devices or consider farming out the programming or maybe the whole thing. You can do a crazy amount of things with these, scenes, shades, garage doors, geo fencing. Just be careful about what you promise the customer.




The Caseta offers some advanced capabilities like geofencing and works with many platforms, RA doesn’t have this. 

It also doesn’t require certification aka access to software to upgrade or add to it. 

The client already has an older RA system with just a few devices but he has trouble finding people to work on it so he’s looking for other options.

We have around 35 devices (movie theater , living area, pool, and Spa)

I was told with Caseta just add another bridge, could be wrong though. 

Caseta Pro line offers all the personalization settings and more like the RA systems....like 1-touch room control. 

RA seems to offer to control more devices, wall control options, and covers a larger area. 

I’d like to learn the more advanced stuff though 


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Are you replacing what's there with all new?


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

The real question is whether you want the internet of things to know everything about you and your habits. The first smart homes I was involved with were in the 1980s.

They had proprietary software, dedicated stand alone PC's for controls. A visual map of the home was on the screen and touch menus for everything from HVAC room by room (actually wall by wall temp control) to coffee makers and sprinkler systems that sensed the moisture in the lawns. The list was as long as it was today. If I recall the cost for a new home control system was about 30K then.

While it would take a lot more work and bell wire the true privacy and security of a hard wired control system or at least a system with actual isolation from the internet makes sense to me.

Just my two cents.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I am really curious whether at any time in the near future (like ten years) there will be demand for a more secure and less intrusive system. At this point most people are just going with the flow and don't care too much about it, younger consumers don't know anything different. 



Djea3 said:


> The real question is whether you want the internet of things to know everything about you and your habits. The first smart homes I was involved with were in the 1980s.
> 
> They had proprietary software, dedicated stand alone PC's for controls. A visual map of the home was on the screen and touch menus for everything from HVAC room by room (actually wall by wall temp control) to coffee makers and sprinkler systems that sensed the moisture in the lawns. The list was as long as it was today. If I recall the cost for a new home control system was about 30K then.
> 
> ...


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

At this point, I can't imagine what if anything my RA2 system would be gathering. The network itself seems to know what consumer items I have been looking at and Home Depot knows when I've bought something there or maybe even when I'm at the store. Amazon sends emails based upon things I've looked at, whether it be on their site or not. Some of the adds on this sites mobile app are amusing. Sometimes they are actually worth clicking on. Does anyone make a truly hardwired low voltage system with similar features and isn't going to disappear anytime soon? Awful lot of work though.


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

nrp3 said:


> I can't imagine what if anything my RA2 system would be gathering.


Remember that just a few years ago an attack was made that affected even manufacturing equipment nationwide. Some of it was not even online full time. Some of it was addressable only through CNC programming types of computers. Even some old OS control systems (windows 98 etc) were affected. If you are interested you might want to look up the "internet of things" to see how invasive tech has become.
Apparently existing firewalls are not too good at gapping the systems from attack or monitoring externally by unauthorized persons or companies (including the makers of the devices). Wireless is the issue.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I suppose if you have a way to bypass the firewall wirelessly to get in, then its a problem. My credit and debit cards have gotten hit a couple of times in recent years and no idea how. Probably lots of ways, maybe not related to my home network, not sure. I understand the threat posed by attacks made to industry and military networks externally. I'll have to consider that when making changes throughout the coming years. I'm not too found of talking to my stuff so no Siri or Alexa. I have both but chose not to install or use them.


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

nrp3 said:


> My credit and debit cards have gotten hit a couple of times in recent years and no idea how.


I grew up in silicon valley, worked there for years. There is no way to stop attacks because we all must address our own systems. Therefore they are vulnerable. There is no system made that can not be attacked (unless air gapped etc.), the question is how easily and can one trust the manufacturers themselves?

Think about it, use Google and they sell your searches to advertisers. Install a google device in your home? Do you really want to do that? Even if you have a great firewall, manufacturers can install sub-programs that send data about you to data collection centers using your own internet connection. Not considered a breach when done that way. Consider the breaches of webcams and microphones on televisions a few years ago. Not for me, thanks.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have a piece of tape on my laptop camera. Paranoia....? Had a customer comment on that once. It seemed like a good idea, and she agreed. Even without Alexa, my wife and I would be discussing something and like magic, that product would show up on one of our website's ads. Can be amusing or creepy.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

nrp3 said:


> I have a piece of tape on my laptop camera. Paranoia....? Had a customer comment on that once. It seemed like a good idea, and she agreed. *Even without Alexa, my wife and I would be discussing something and like magic, that product would show up on one of our website's ads. Can be amusing or creepy.*


Phones have been listening to us a lot longer than Alexa etc. have been, if you have the voice commands on they are listening to you at all times. Creepy.


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## Nukie Poo (Sep 3, 2012)

WronGun said:


> The Caseta offers some advanced capabilities like geofencing and works with many platforms, RA doesn’t have this.
> 
> It also doesn’t require certification aka access to software to upgrade or add to it.
> 
> ...




RadioRA 2 has geofencing. Take a class and learn how to set it up. There’s nothing about Caseta, other than its economy, that surpasses RadioRA. 


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Our house lighting is operated by a Lutron hub and controlled by us through our Alarm.com account App.
We dont use the Lutron app at all.
The Alarm.com provides the geofencing. Not a big deal until you drive away and forget to close your garage door.
Im with Splaz on the unnecessary need to integrate different systems.
We had an Alarm.com enabled thermostat but it was so laggy I just switched back to a Nest.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I use the Lutron app and the only criticism I have is that you have to wait for it to open to be able to use it every time. My guess if it didn't, it would use a lot of memory or whatever to keep it running in the background. Works well otherwise.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Ours are all timed to come on and go off. I have Picos and wall o\mounted dimmers to bypass all of that or I can stay seated and use either the Alarm.com app or the Lutron app if I want to vary the scenes


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have the outside lights on the timer function and found it really easy to work with. Not sure the astronomical function is accurate as I’d like, but haven’t found the time or desire to mess with it. No scenes programmed though it might be a good exercise someday.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I have the outside lights on the timer function and found it really easy to work with. Not sure the astronomical function is accurate as I’d like, but haven’t found the time or desire to mess with it. No scenes programmed though it might be a good exercise someday.


Its more of the "schedules" for me. Now anyway.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I think the next step is couple of their thermostats.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I think the next step is couple of their thermostats.


I have had a few different types,
The Nest worked best for us.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The nest has been easy to install the few times I've done it. I'm a little intimidated by all it does. I am likely to get the Lutron/Honeywell (think thats the correct brand) type. I have a customer that didn't like the way the Nest learned, he and his wife with competing temperature needs...


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I’m wondering if it’s worth it to get RA certified ? 

Is this technology going to stay around and grow ?


I was at my clients house and his system is pretty serious. He claims its impossible to find anyone who can work on it. It’s almost worth taking the class for this client because he’s interested in adding heavily to his current setup. The amount of lighting control in this house is ridiculous. The Pool area alone has 12 light controls. 

I would also assume this would be 1 way of getting into the faces of very wealthy clients. 


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I think it's kind of its own world and if you can master it, great. I think you have to want to do it and be all in to be successful. It's interesting stuff. I'd try it again as long as it's not too technically challenging. My all in is generator service so it's tough to do both, if not impossible.


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