# Question about getting organized...



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

SoulFree said:


> I have been in the electrical field for 13 years now and been a certified for 6. I have been contacted by the local reps here for the past 2 years and finally took the plunge.
> I took a written test and 3 hands on, passed them all the first go round and have been happily working in my local for the past 2 months.
> I have gotten several different opinions from my co-workers on the job about me getting organized. Some don't like it others have said that its a good thing.
> I would like to know what the general opinion is on this subject.
> ...


The ones that don't like it are *****'S and fear that you will be kept and they will be fired because they're slackers.

Work as hard as you can and when a slacker tells you to slow down,,,,work harder,,,,,good luck and Welcome to ET....:thumbsup:


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

There isn't a general opinion, AFAIK. Your work will speak for itself, and that is as it should be.

You will likely get negative responses from those resenting the fact that they served a 4 or 5 year apprenticeship, while you possibly did not. Who cares? Stand your ground, take no ****, do your job. Some will change in their attitude toward you, the others aren't worth worrying about.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Well, in the union there are big jobs and small jobs.

The small jobs for the smaller contractors are just like everywhere else.

The big jobs are what I like, because the pace is slower. It's all supply and demand. When a big job goes down there is a big demand for men. So the bar is set lower. After the job is done, people go home. There is no incentive to bust your hump IMO. Just because some guy is slow doesn't mean he has no idea what is going on, he knows very well what is going on, and it's best to keep secret how much trade knowledge you really know.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

The problem you will face is not knowing all the union rules and traditions that you would have learned in an apprenticeship. Those rules and traditions are designed to benefit the group, and not the individual. You as the formerly non union worker are not used to that small difference.

Once you get that life will be smoother, but even so, there will be folks who will think you 'got away' without doing an apprenticeship. Those folks cannot be satisfied so just ignore them.

Personally I believe folks should do a proper and full apprenticeship - it benefits them and the collective membership and being shorted that experience will make folks work that much harder to find their way.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

eejack said:


> The problem you will face is not knowing all the union rules and traditions that you would have learned in an apprenticeship. Those rules and traditions are designed to benefit the group, and not the individual. You as the formerly non union worker are not used to that small difference.
> 
> Once you get that life will be smoother, but even so, there will be folks who will think you 'got away' without doing an apprenticeship. Those folks cannot be satisfied so just ignore them.
> 
> Personally I believe folks should do a proper and full apprenticeship - it benefits them and the collective membership and being shorted that experience will make folks work that much harder to find their way.


Why would a guy with 13 years experience take a 60% pay drop "just because"?

Tying their apprenticeship so hard to cheap labor pay isn't a great incentive to encourage a person to go through an arbitrarily 5 year program to maybe learn a few things he hadn't picked up before.

It would make more sense to find his weaknesses and encourage him to take the relevant classes while he's making journeyman pay. Continuing education. What many professionals get while making full time pay.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

eejack said:


> Personally I believe folks should do a proper and full apprenticeship - it benefits them and the collective membership and being shorted that experience will make folks work that much harder to find their way.


While true, a different program to organise non union is needed.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

I joined about 6 months ago and I have been told to slow down a few times. A favorite of mine is slow down you will work yourself out of a job. Thing is I just do what I swore in to do. I try to give 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. If I make money for the company I figure I will always have a job.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

blueheels2 said:


> I joined about 6 months ago and I have been told to slow down a few times. A favorite of mine is slow down you will work yourself out of a job. Thing is I just do what I swore in to do. I try to give 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. If I make money for the company I figure I will always have a job.


Being told to slow down is a violation of the agreement. Ignore it.
I fired the last guys that tried that crap.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

You will not work yourself out of a job. The men that produce efficiently will always have a job.


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## SoulFree (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks for all of the replies. I might have a hard time with trying to slow down. Its not in my nature. I walk fast everywhere I go and must be doing something at all times. I take tremendous pride in my craft and I believe that it shows in my work ethic.
Before joining the union, I was a foreman (non-union). Ran 2 crews on several different projects running concurrently. So moving fast is inherent.

For the past month I have been asked to work OT every Saturday and have.
Mind you that my foreman and I are the only ones to be working on those days.
I was also asked recently if I wanted to become foreman, I respectfully declined as I would like to get my feet more wet before taking on greater responsibility.

My plan is to be a active member and volunteer as much time as I can to my local as I believe in its purpose whole-heartedly.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Keep doing what you're doing! Deadwood needs to sink, and live sticks are always on top. Bench warmers are a dime a dozen...good electricians need to be in the field. 

Keep in mind that situations change too. the worst guy on one project may be great on another...and the ass you kick today will be the one you kiss tomorrow. Best you can do is to do your work in a responsible, workmanlike manner, and it will speak for itself. Sounds like it already has! Welcome to the canoe club


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

blueheels2 said:


> If I make money for the company I figure I will always have a job.


That is the hardest thing to realize - the company does not care about you at all. I might work for lots of companies in one year, none of them care about me since they know they can lay me off and get another one just like me from the hall.

Difficult concept to grasp, but important.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

TGGT said:


> Why would a guy with 13 years experience take a 60% pay drop "just because"?
> 
> Tying their apprenticeship so hard to cheap labor pay isn't a great incentive to encourage a person to go through an arbitrarily 5 year program to maybe learn a few things he hadn't picked up before.
> 
> It would make more sense to find his weaknesses and encourage him to take the relevant classes while he's making journeyman pay. Continuing education. What many professionals get while making full time pay.


I agree with you on this - I don't think organized folks should 'suffer' but there should be some sort of educational program for them. We really can do better by our organized brothers in that regard.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

The only way for the small commercial / resi organized hands to get the proper experience is to be tooled up with veteran hands on the big jobs.

I spend alot of my time with recently organized hands who have no relevant experience. They come out to the job, and the emt they did before, the owner bought 3/4 inch factory bends for when he had to run pipe. Given enough time and patience, they can be taught to 555, table bend, wireway all into the smallest windows. I don't give a if the contractor makes money, it's all about making a more capable labor pool IMO. When the time comes to pull out the stops, I am confident everyone will give enough to keep the game moving forward.

It is a game after all? Do the minimum required so I can enjoy MY life and not burn myself out fattening xyz electric's war chest?? :thumbup:


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Since I never did an IBEW apprenticeship, if I wanted to join the union now, I would need to re-do my apprenticeship?

Is that common in the IBEW or just in some locations?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eejack said:


> That is the hardest thing to realize - the company does not care about you at all. I might work for lots of companies in one year, none of them care about me since they know they can lay me off and get another one just like me from the hall.
> 
> Difficult concept to grasp, but important.


The point that you're missing is that if you are truly a good worker who knows what he is doing, it's not so easy to replace you with the next man on the list. That's why many of us have kept jobs for long periods of time over the years.

No matter what they tell you, you are not all equal. Difficult concept to grasp, but important.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

SoulFree said:


> I have been in the electrical field for 13 years now and been a certified for 6. I have been contacted by the local reps here for the past 2 years and finally took the plunge.
> I took a written test and 3 hands on, passed them all the first go round and have been happily working in my local for the past 2 months.
> I have gotten several different opinions from my co-workers on the job about me getting organized. Some don't like it others have said that its a good thing.
> I would like to know what the general opinion is on this subject.
> ...


Same way I got into the union. Had many mixed feelings from coworkers. I have since worked with a really great bunch of guys that aren't gonna knife you as soon as you turn your back. Then after time, still find there are some pickle puffers that couldn't stand to be away from home, and do whatever it takes to stay at home. People are the same wherever you go. Just at a higher rate of pay.:laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

This is the only kind of organization I respect


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Shockdoc said:


> This is the only kind of organization I respect


What - the penal system?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

eejack said:


> What - the penal system?


No not the penis system, the mob.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

shockdoc don't matter anyways.

union shops aren't running around high on meth hanging paddle fans.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Since I never did an IBEW apprenticeship, if I wanted to join the union now, I would need to re-do my apprenticeship?
> 
> Is that common in the IBEW or just in some locations?


Depends on the local and the work picture. There used to be a "white ticket" program in many locals. Ask your local about joining and the terms, schooling, etc. If work is good, they will be receptive. However, do realize, when work is slow they are very reluctant to organize a guy on just to have him sit, and that is fair also.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

big2bird said:


> While true, a different program to organise non union is needed.


Our local, local 440 has an advanced program for us special ed children. I joined with 13 years and passed all the hands on and did great they said on my written exam but my math "fractions" we're terrible. These fraction questions were worth more then the electrical questions themselves. Consequently I failed the exam. I've never found the common denominator at work on drywall but hey I'm in and enjoying the knowledge being given to me by an excellent teacher. Excuse me I'm still a little sour about the whole fraction thing. In solidarity local 440!!!!


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

Our local, local 440 has an advanced program for us special ed children. I joined with 13 years and passed all the hands on and did great they said on my written exam but my math "fractions" we're terrible. These fraction questions were worth more then the electrical questions themselves. Consequently I failed the exam. I've never found the common denominator at work on drywall but hey I'm in and enjoying the knowledge being given to me by an excellent teacher. Excuse me I'm still a little sour about the whole fraction thing. In solidarity local 440!!!!


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

Wow excuse me I tried responding to someone's reply about having a course for non union organizing. How do I respond to someone direct?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Our local, local 440 has an advanced program for us special ed children. I joined with 13 years and passed all the hands on and did great they said on my written exam but my math "fractions" we're terrible. These fraction questions were worth more then the electrical questions themselves. Consequently I failed the exam. I've never found the common denominator at work on drywall but hey I'm in and enjoying the knowledge being given to me by an excellent teacher. Excuse me I'm still a little sour about the whole fraction thing. In solidarity local 440!!!!


Ok, you should be able to solve this now. 1/4- 6/8 = 

How did you do on the Algebra ?


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

About getting organized, it depends on what shops you came from, and what kind of shops you are going to.

We need to organize some of these shops in the ibew now. They get these naive first term apprentices and brainwash them into company drones, then make them foremen when they turn out. Then the green foremen lose a butt ton of money on the jobs and the PM makes them feel indentured to the company all over again, working alot of extra time for free. :thumbup:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Wow excuse me I tried responding to someone's reply about having a course for non union organizing. How do I respond to someone direct?


Underneath the post you wish to respond to is a button marked 'Quote'. Click it and that post will appear in the area where you write your post.

Welcome to the site.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

SoulFree said:


> I have been in the electrical field for 13 years now and been a certified for 6. I have been contacted by the local reps here for the past 2 years and finally took the plunge.
> I took a written test and 3 hands on, passed them all the first go round and have been happily working in my local for the past 2 months.
> I have gotten several different opinions from my co-workers on the job about me getting organized. Some don't like it others have said that its a good thing.
> I would like to know what the general opinion is on this subject.
> ...


This first step to getting organized it go to home depot and get some storage bins


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

SoulFree said:


> My plan is to be a active member and volunteer as much time as I can to my local as I believe in its purpose whole-heartedly.



that's the way brother :thumbup:

show them you aren't "just" some organized hand, that you've been shown the light.

I, also, highly recommend being a tramp a little bit in this great land of ours when other halls scream for manpower. learn their local ways [sometimes they can teach you something to bring back to your local to improve things], talk to traveling brothers.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Since I never did an IBEW apprenticeship, if I wanted to join the union now, I would need to re-do my apprenticeship?
> 
> Is that common in the IBEW or just in some locations?


Since Canada already has a nationwide apprenticeship program which culminates in our Red Seal Program.....most of the Canadian locals do not have their own apprenticeship training program. It is usually handled by the province/territory and their respective department of education. This is also the reason that union and non-union electricians alike get the same theory training.

Most of our locals do have a Joint Apprentice Training Program in place with the province that states that the local will provide the hands on training for the apprentice by placing him to work with various contractors learning many different aspects of our trade and the provincial dept.of education will provide the classroom theory training. It works out very well.

To answer your question very simply though.......NO.....you would NOT have to do the apprenticeship if you already have that Red Seal:thumbsup:


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