# side jobs



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Your unions contract should be available to you, read it and see what it sais about contracting your own work. More than likley it is not allowed, but I know it goes on. We do strictly commercial and industrial, so I dont care about the resi side jobbing going on, but if I find our men side jobbing anything other than resi I would push the issue.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

dawgs said:


> Your unions contract should be available to you, read it and see what it sais about contracting your own work. More than likley it is not allowed, but I know it goes on. We do strictly commercial and industrial, so I dont care about the resi side jobbing going on, but if I find our men side jobbing anything other than resi I would push the issue.


But some, not all side jobbers borrow material, use company tools, trucks and that exposes companies to certain liabilities.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

brian john said:


> But some, not all side jobbers borrow material, use company tools, trucks and that exposes companies to certain liabilities.


Very True.


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## duff7830 (Apr 29, 2008)

im not in the union yet im trying to get accepted but was just curious because ive heard different views.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I heard the samething when I was in the union,but I said the hell with that rule and I did a ton of side work.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I heard the samething when I was in the union,but I said the hell with that rule and I did a ton of side work.


Hell yeah. I'm the same way. I do tons of side work. But all of mine is residential and I don't use the company's material, nor am I taking any work away from any "brothers". So that's all I have to say about that!


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

our people say "there is a difference between 'need' and 'greed'" so if you have been laid off and are gonna lose your house I dont think side jobs are a big deal. I do side jobs here and there but I never bid bigger jobs/houses


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

steelersman said:


> Hell yeah. I'm the same way. I do tons of side work. But all of mine is residential and I don't use the company's material, nor am I taking any work away from any "brothers". So that's all I have to say about that!


Me too. Did a condo building and the condo owner's where wanting the company that I worked for at the time to hang the fixtures and they didn't want any part of it. So I did all of that work and made very good money.:thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Do you union guys who engage in non-union activities like side work also stand on picket lines protesting non-union construction activity?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

i wish i could live in a bubble...i love how no ones actions have any effect on anyone...


dawgs - i would ask you to reconsider your policy...the 2 man shop that's losing money to your sidejobbing employees may take some work from the 10 man shop who will in turn take some work from you...

it's the circle of life...we just tend to forget it...


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

oldman said:


> the 2 man shop that's losing money to your sidejobbing employees may take some work from the 10 man shop who will in turn take some work from you...
> 
> it's the circle of life...we just tend to forget it...


Just wait till you see my sidejob excel spreadsheet! It kicks out a great price real fast! Now if somebody wants the work done, I say, let me get you a price, and if Mom&Pop want to beat that price, they can sure go ahead and have that work, it would surely be a loser for them.

All the complaining about sidejobbers makes me ill, its all you ABC bottom feeders that are doing all the whining.

Oh man, my 'clientele' loves me too, they really get off on the generator panels, service changes, hottubs, and such. If I had to go legit though, I couldn't compete with the bottom feeders who actually do residential service for a living, you know what?? Some of you guys should find another line of work, but you're just not smart enough to get into the brotherhood. Hey, there's always a need for guys to hang sheetrock!


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Do you union guys who engage in non-union activities like side work also stand on picket lines protesting non-union construction activity?


not me. I've never been called to picket duty and I hope to never have to do it.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> If I had to go legit though, I couldn't compete with the bottom feeders who actually do residential service for a living, you know what?? Some of you guys should find another line of work, but you're just not smart enough to get into the brotherhood. Hey, there's always a need for guys to hang sheetrock!


No, it's that some of ARE smart enough to CHOOSE NOT join the union. 

So it's alright that you do your side work and take work away from a real contractor? As long as it is not a "brother", right?

Comments like yours are what give some union guys a bad name and make you look arrogant.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Maybe someday the Union will follow it's own rules.

I thought they had all the SS #'s and could verify any additional monies earned?

And if it is cash then that makes it even sweeter, I can remember a comment here not too long ago about illegal immigrants--at least the ones who get a paycheck pay taxes, taxes they'll never get back.

Tom


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

side jobs, aka "hangin sheetrock". :laughing:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Just wait till you see my sidejob excel spreadsheet! It kicks out a great price real fast! Now if somebody wants the work done, I say, let me get you a price, and if Mom&Pop want to beat that price, they can sure go ahead and have that work, it would surely be a loser for them.
> 
> All the complaining about sidejobbers makes me ill, its all you ABC bottom feeders that are doing all the whining.
> 
> Oh man, my 'clientele' loves me too, they really get off on the generator panels, service changes, hottubs, and such. If I had to go legit though, I couldn't compete with the bottom feeders who actually do residential service for a living, you know what?? Some of you guys should find another line of work, but you're just not smart enough to get into the brotherhood. Hey, there's always a need for guys to hang sheetrock!


Ok scarecrow.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> side jobs, aka "hangin sheetrock". :laughing:


 
Thats what my side work was hanging and finishing on permitted jobs.



> Oh man, my 'clientele' loves me too, they really get off on the generator panels, service changes, hottubs, and such. If I had to go legit though, I couldn't compete with the bottom feeders who actually do residential service for a living, you know what?? Some of you guys should find another line of work, but you're just not smart enough to get into the brotherhood. Hey, there's always a need for guys to hang sheetrock!


Do you pay taxes? Or are you just a scoff law in all you endeavours.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

duff7830 said:


> im a little confused on this subject. i have been told that if your under a union contract than side jobs are a big no no. but then i heard that when its slow its ok if uncle joe-shmo wants to throw you a couple bucks to put in some high hats in his kitchen or so and so has a friend that needs some work done. im confused on what they consider side work actually is and what is considered wrong and what is acceptable.


Think about it. If you were a contractor, was abiding by all of the rules in the agreement, why would you not want language in the working agreement that prevented guys from contracting around you?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Think about it. If you were a contractor, was abiding by all of the rules in the agreement, why would you not want language in the working agreement that prevented guys from contracting around you?


And that sums it up, you can make all the excuses you want but by contract it is wrong.

I had a side job thief tell me, well I worked 115 minutes past 3:30 so I just figured instead of turning OT, I take a few boxes of switches. The whole time he worked for me he never made 8.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

brian john said:


> And that sums it up, you can make all the excuses you want but by contract it is wrong.
> 
> I had a side job thief tell me, well I worked 115 minutes past 3:30 so I just figured instead of turning OT, I take a few boxes of switches. The whole time he worked for me he never made 8.


You didn't fire him once you found out that he was stealing from you?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

william1978 said:


> You didn't fire him once you found out that he was stealing from you?


Oh yeah, he was history; as well as stealing material he was stealing time.


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## Noe (Apr 7, 2009)

union rules aside for a minute, does licensing agency or AHJ monitor non-contractor work?


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

Noe said:


> union rules aside for a minute, does licensing agency or AHJ monitor non-contractor work?


 Get got doing unpermitted work, without business license and insurance, is a good way to lose your tradesman lincense. rightfully so.


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## Noe (Apr 7, 2009)

wingz said:


> Get got doing unpermitted work, without business license and insurance, is a good way to lose your tradesman lincense. rightfully so.


Agree. Not to mention fines and possible jail time. In TX, TDLR just fined some handymen for unlicensed electrical activity. I believe fines ranged from $500 to $2500.
Not to mention my real problem with side jobbers...My wife expects me to do that much work at home!


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

Noe said:


> My wife expects me to do that much work at home!


All too true for me also.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

A discussion like this was going around a job site not too long ago. One guy pipes up with what makes alot of sense to me.... "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life"

Everything else aside, I have to agree 110% with that and think we would not be in quite as big a mess country wide if more people had that attitude.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

s.kelly said:


> "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life".



Either that or get a higher paying job, but that's not always feasible, especially in this economy. 

I make good money but also like to do side work for the extra-curricular things in life. To each his own.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

s.kelly said:


> "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life".


I belive most of us can make it on 40 hrs a week. As for me I like to work side work because the money that I make is spent on the fun things in life.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

brian john said:


> Oh yeah, he was history; as well as stealing material he was stealing time.


 :thumbsup: good job.:thumbsup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Noe said:


> union rules aside for a minute, does licensing agency or AHJ monitor non-contractor work?


 They try to around here, but its hard to catch those guy's because you can't always catch them in the act. If I see one that is doing work without permits or a state license I turn them in.:thumbup:


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I make good money but also like to do side work for the extra-curricular things in life. To each his own.


Are you a contractor with a business license and insurance? If not you are illegal.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

> "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life"


Sure he might be getting 40, but is he giving 40? That is the question. There are a lot of people out there who are brainwashed into thinking they are entitled to royal treatment regardless of what they actually accomplish with their day...

For instance, I have a close friend who is a union floor layer for 11 years and boy let me tell you, here is his average day (paraphrased from his own words with a smidge of my indulgence):

Job at 7.....drink some coffee and set up shop

Break at 9.....supposed to be short but its cool cause me and so and so are cool, so it actually lasts until 10.

Lunch at 11:30.....big powwow about where we are going.......ok lets go there......get there at 12:00 and sit to eat........ok finished eating, hey if they served alchohol you know I had some. Ok, let's go back, but first I gotta stop and get some scratch-offs.......a frenzy ensues....man we better get back, it's :10 after 1.....woops I mean 2pm, I mixed the hands up....must have been the breers, I mean beers.

2:05pm - talk for 10 or 15 minutes about how you have indigestion from the food at lunch, never addressing the fact that it might be from the beers.

2:45pm - Slowly start cleaning up.

3:15pm - Brake lights baby!

Now I am not saying that that is everyone's game but I will point out that this is the same guy who never stops talking pro-union/anti-non union garbage while he will scoop up any floor laying job he can on the side for cash..........

So, I am not anti union but I sure hope any of you union guys that do engage in "side-work" have open minded opinions on union or non-union topics because I would consider it some pretty heavy sh!t if you are one of the ones who goes through life with the over the top union ego while you are basically taking the food off anothers plate by doing cash work on the side.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

wingz said:


> Are you a contractor with a business license and insurance? If not you are illegal.


Hey pal, if I want any lip from you, I'll peel it off my zipper. 

Just joking. Seriously, I only have a masters license. I used to have the whole she-bang. Business license, class C contractors license (all I do is small jobs, tiny actually), and a small bond ($10,000 to be precise). But to be honest, I only used my credentials twice I think in the first year to pull a permit, so it wasn't worth renewing the business and contractors license and the bond. So now I'm left with only my masters license. However, if a job that would require a permit comes up I have my masters license paired up with my good friend's class A contractors license and therefore the job is covered under his insurance. 

I hope you aren't trying to call me out, because it sure seems like you are. I am not doing anything illegal. Because think about it this way, the homowner can pull their own permit and hire anyone to do the work. At least when they hire me, they are getting a licensed master electrician and not some shlub handyman illegal immigrant advertising on CL. Also I'm a Steelers fan so you can't go wrong with that!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

steelersman said:


> Hey pal, if I want any lip from you, I'll peel it off my zipper.


 :laughing::laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Now I am not saying that that is everyone's game but I will point out that this is the same guy who never stops talking pro-union/anti-non union garbage while he will scoop up any floor laying job he can on the side for cash..........
> 
> So, I am not anti union but I sure hope any of you union guys that do engage in "side-work" have open minded opinions on union or non-union topics because I would consider it some pretty heavy sh!t if you are one of the ones who goes through life with the over the top union ego while you are basically taking the food off anothers plate by doing cash work on the side.


I gotcha. Of course there are people out there like that. Union and non-union. The non-union ones are less likely to ba able to get away with it though. I personally am not a union pusher-guy. I used to be non-union. I didn't go to the union apprenticeship. I went through ABC school. My 4th and final year teacher, who is an inspector at the Pentagon, referred me to the company who I now have worked for for the last 7 years. My pay nearly doubled immediately from day one since taking that job offer. I like my job and I can admit that it's not an average electrical job, or union electrical job for that matter. We do strictly controls, low voltage (sub-contractors for Johnson Controls) wiring for HVAC equipment and the like.
I consider myself "lucky" to be where I am. Actually extremely lucky. 

Bottom line is we all have to work and eat and survive. Union or non-union. If my job where I'm at now would have been non-union then I'd be a non-union guy right now. I like my job and the pay so this is where I'm at. If someday a better opportunity presents itself to me then I will weigh the pros and cons and act accordingly. For me it isn't an issue of union or non-union, but more an issue of: " are you happy and fulfilled doing what you're doing". Sometimes for me the answer is no. I get bored once in a while at my job. Doing side work is also a change of pace for me. It's residential work and I miss it. That's where I cut my teeth, so I do miss it sometimes.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

s.kelly said:


> A discussion like this was going around a job site not too long ago. One guy pipes up with what makes alot of sense to me.... "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life".


In my company overime is standard most guys getting a minimum of 8 a week some make as much or more money than their straight time wages every year.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I gotcha. Of course there are people out there like that. Union and non-union. The non-union ones are less likely to ba able to get away with it though. I personally am not a union pusher-guy. I used to be non-union. I didn't go to the union apprenticeship. I went through ABC school. My 4th and final year teacher, who is an inspector at the Pentagon, referred me to the company who I now have worked for for the last 7 years. My pay nearly doubled immediately from day one since taking that job offer. I like my job and I can admit that it's not an average electrical job, or union electrical job for that matter. We do strictly controls, low voltage (sub-contractors for Johnson Controls) wiring for HVAC equipment and the like.
> I consider myself "lucky" to be where I am. Actually extremely lucky.
> 
> Bottom line is we all have to work and eat and survive. Union or non-union. If my job where I'm at now would have been non-union then I'd be a non-union guy right now. I like my job and the pay so this is where I'm at. If someday a better opportunity presents itself to me then I will weigh the pros and cons and act accordingly. For me it isn't an issue of union or non-union, but more an issue of: " are you happy and fulfilled doing what you're doing". Sometimes for me the answer is no. I get bored once in a while at my job. Doing side work is also a change of pace for me. It's residential work and I miss it. That's where I cut my teeth, so I do miss it sometimes.


And, IMHO you appear to be a logical human being.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> And, IMHO you appear to be a logical human being.


Besides being a steelers fan.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

brian john said:


> In my company overime is standard most guys getting a minimum of 8 a week some make as much or more money than their straight time wages every year.


 This sounds like a company I would like to work for.:thumbsup:


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I have a friend who is an IBEW journeyman lineman for the local PoCo. He has an electrical contracting company set up with his wife as the owner that he runs "on the side". He has 2 grunts that he keeps busy during the day and he sets up/bids jobs after he gets off of work in the afternoon and on weekends. He has his basic electrical license, which restricts him to residential work. He can't do anything but residential in the city where he has to pull a permit but he can do anything he wants in the county. He doesn't bother me because he can't compete with me due to time constraints and lack of commercial/industrial knowledge. But some of the local resi-sparkys don't like it one bit. He advertises "100A up-grades from $400.00" in the local paper. Full-time contractors can't compete with that. You couldn't buy the materials I would use for a 100A up-grade for $400.00. But he keeps busy with his "side" work. He can afford to be cheap when he's making $40.00 per hr with benefits at his day job. I'm glad I don't have to compete with him for work.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

JohnJ0906 said:


> Besides being a steelers fan.


John, John, John. When are you going to realize, that in the end, it never pays off to harbor jealousy of the Sixburgh Steelers baby?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Do you union guys who engage in non-union activities like side work also stand on picket lines protesting non-union construction activity?


Absolutely.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

davis9 said:


> Maybe someday the Union will follow it's own rules.
> 
> I thought they had all the SS #'s and could verify any additional monies earned?


How do you suppose a union could find out, having a member's SS#, about other earnings through other sources?



> And if it is cash then that makes it even sweeter, I can remember a comment here not too long ago about illegal immigrants--at least the ones who get a paycheck pay taxes, taxes they'll never get back.
> 
> Tom


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

s.kelly said:


> A discussion like this was going around a job site not too long ago. One guy pipes up with what makes alot of sense to me.... "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life"
> 
> Everything else aside, I have to agree 110% with that and think we would not be in quite as big a mess country wide if more people had that attitude.


The attitude that one should make it on 40 is all fine and good... the problem is, especially in the nonunion sector, is what the definition of "make it" actually is. In Fla and the Carolinas electricians are making 12 - 18 bucks an hour. NO benifits, NO pension. NO 401k!!! Pathetic, and 40 hours a week is NOT "making it."


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Absolutely.


And you see no hypocrisy in that whatsoever either, right? 

I'd argue with you, but I've read your rantings and ravings in the past and I know have to do verbal gymnastics to justify that practice. I hope you at least realize how bad you make your fellow union workers look with your hypocrisy. 

If you sign your name on the dotted line stating "I will not engage in non-union activity" and then go right ahead and do it anyway, you might as well start going to work in a clown suit.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> In Fla and the Carolinas electricians are making 12 - 18 bucks an hour. NO benifits, NO pension. NO 401k!!! Pathetic, and 40 hours a week is NOT "making it."


 I don't think you have all of your info correct on this.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I don't think you have all of your info correct on this.


have you learned nothing on these forums? facts are never allowed to get in the way of good opinions...simple as that...


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Peter D said:


> And you see no hypocrisy in that whatsoever either, right?
> 
> I'd argue with you, but I've read your rantings and ravings in the past and I know have to do verbal gymnastics to justify that practice. I hope you at least realize how bad you make your fellow union workers look with your hypocrisy.
> 
> If you sign your name on the dotted line stating "I will not engage in non-union activity" and then go right ahead and do it anyway, you might as well start going to work in a clown suit.


True, I've been down this road before on many occasions.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> How do you suppose a union could find out, having a member's SS#, about other earnings through other sources?



A simple Income verification though many sources. 

Tom


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

davis9 said:


> A simple Income verification though many sources.
> 
> Tom


If you are doing unpermitted, unlicensed work, how is any income verification going to work?

If someone slips you a couple bills for hanging a fan, who will find out you made money?


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

jbfan said:


> If you are doing unpermitted, unlicensed work, how is any income verification going to work?
> 
> If someone slips you a couple bills for hanging a fan, who will find out you made money?



No one, that just reinforces the No tax paying problem... In my area there are quite a few Resi Union shops that would take exception to a union guy doing "side work" in their areas.

Tom


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jbfan said:


> If someone slips you a couple bills for hanging a fan, who will find out you made money?


Some people still have cash? Durn, I cannot remember what it looks like, green I think?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Oldman called me out on the excel spreadsheet claim, as if I don't know how to work excel or whatnot as a mere 'journeyman.'

So here yah go, play around with the formulas in this one!

FYI: I predict my labor based on materials for the job. I can guess just about every fastener, breaker, strap, condulet, etc. just walking the job. No assemblys yet, but 1 assembly at such and such linear feet will automatically add to the line items, which gives me a detailed takeoff for the shopping list. I predict my hours by material cost, just like every other trade out there who doesn't do it by sqft. Its really a hobby thing I like to play with for fun.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

i didn't say anything about the spreadsheet...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Oldman called me out on the excel spreadsheet claim, as if I don't know how to work excel or whatnot as a mere 'journeyman.'
> 
> So here yah go, play around with the formulas in this one!
> 
> FYI: I predict my labor based on materials for the job. I can guess just about every fastener, breaker, strap, condulet, etc. just walking the job. No assemblys yet, but 1 assembly at such and such linear feet will automatically add to the line items, which gives me a detailed takeoff for the shopping list. I predict my hours by material cost, just like every other trade out there who doesn't do it by sqft. Its really a hobby thing I like to play with for fun.


That's a lot more than I do for what I am sure are in many cases much larger projects.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

davis9 said:


> No one, that just reinforces the No tax paying problem... In my area there are quite a few Resi Union shops that would take exception to a union guy doing "side work" in their areas.
> 
> Tom


Of course they would, but by focusing on the one union guy they might be able to do something about, there's 1500 other nonunion guys and other "handymen" doing the same thing slipping under the radar.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Of course they would, but by focusing on the one union guy they might be able to do something about, there's 1500 other nonunion guys and other "handymen" doing the same thing slipping under the radar.



Probably more than 1500, but there a few thousand union guys oow and that adds to the existing problem. Now if they followed the rules saturation would be LESS of an issue.

Tom

And the non-union guys aren't necessarily slipping under the radar. Proper insurance, licensing, permits, taxes etc.


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

s.kelly said:


> A discussion like this was going around a job site not too long ago. One guy pipes up with what makes alot of sense to me.... "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life"
> 
> Everything else aside, I have to agree 110% with that and think we would not be in quite as big a mess country wide if more people had that attitude.


I know this is an old thread, but I just had to comment on this post.

I'm not advocating doing illegal sidework, but I am opposing your statement.

I see absolutely NO problem with someone working more than 40 hours. If someone wants a second job or wants to work extra time to make more money, more power to them. I think that is a GREAT thing. I think one of the problems with this country is the lack of ambition and initiative to go out and work, everyone wants 8 hours of leisure a day to watch TV and play video games. 40 hours a week is a cakewalk, if everyone was willing to work more than that we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. Less mortgage crisis, less credit card and personal debt, etc. Instead, people think they only need to work their 40 hour job and whatever they can't afford they put on the credit card or don't pay the mortgage that month.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

dawgs said:


> Your unions contract should be available to you, read it and see what it sais about contracting your own work. More than likley it is not allowed, but I know it goes on. We do strictly commercial and industrial, so I dont care about the resi side jobbing going on, but if I find our men side jobbing anything other than resi I would push the issue.


 And all of us UNION residential contractors thank you.....


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

BadSplice said:


> I see absolutely NO problem with someone working more than 40 hours. If someone wants...


which is NOT what he was talking about.

You make choices in life. eg: do you choose to bank up that OT to have an extra week or two at the beach with the family or do you choose to coach your sons little league team.

But if the choice is having to work that extra job or you can't afford even the first week at the beach (or whatever else) then you get back to the original and still quite valid argument: "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life"


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

BryanMD said:


> which is NOT what he was talking about.
> 
> You make choices in life. eg: do you choose to bank up that OT to have an extra week or two at the beach with the family or do you choose to coach your sons little league team.
> 
> But if the choice is having to work that extra job or you can't afford even the first week at the beach (or whatever else) then you get back to the original and still quite valid argument: "If you can't make it on 40 you need to take a look at your life"


I know what he was talking about, and I disagree for the reasons that I previously stated.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

BadSplice said:


> 40 hours a week is a cakewalk, if everyone was willing to work more than that we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.



If we worked less hours....more people would be needed to perform the work we weren't there to do....resulting in 100% employment in all fields at all times.



:thumbsup:

I should run for president under the "20 hour work week" slogan.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

BadSplice said:


> I know what he was talking about, and I disagree for the reasons that I previously stated.


I suspect you are operating with a different understanding of what "making it" means.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Celtic said:


> If we worked less hours....more people would be needed to perform the work we weren't there to do....resulting in 100% employment in all fields at all times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hell yeah. That's how they do in Europe and I think it would result in less stress, which in turn would result in less health care costs. :thumbsup:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

i'm down with the cause...i'll even go so far as to advocate the 10 hour week...think of all the extra errands we could run


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

Celtic said:


> If we worked less hours....more people would be needed to perform the work we weren't there to do....resulting in 100% employment in all fields at all times.


That wouldn't work because 25% of the country doesn't want to work at all and over half the country seems to want to cover the people who don't work so the rest of us have to work more than 40 hours because they take so much money out in taxes to pay for the slackers. :thumbsup:


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

BryanMD said:


> I suspect you are operating with a different understanding of what "making it" means.


I used to have this argument with girls in the 7th grade.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

oldman said:


> i'm down with the cause...i'll even go so far as to advocate the 10 hour week...think of all the extra errands we could run


do those 10 hours include lunch and coffee breaks? 

In France the number is 35.
Recently someone was fined serious money for coming in after hours.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

BadSplice said:


> That wouldn't work because 25% of the country doesn't want to work at all and over half the country seems to want to cover the people who don't work so the rest of us have to work more than 40 hours because they take so much money out in taxes to pay for the slackers. :thumbsup:



10 hour work week...
no welfare waiters....
there is a job for every man, woman and child in this country.

:thumbup:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

BryanMD said:


> do those 10 hours include lunch and coffee breaks?
> 
> In France the number is 35.
> Recently someone was fined serious money for coming in after hours.


yep...i volunteer to make my work day from 11a to 1pm...i'll take a 30 min coffee break in the am...an hour for lunch...and a 30 min coffee break in the pm...i'm good with that...


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