# Were old files made of better steel?



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

What are you using the file on?


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I used to purchase a lot of tools from pawn stores. The files I have now are at least 40 years old. I have had them for 30. 
You can check Ebay or other sites for used old tools. Problem I do not believe they can be resharpened

Watch out some half round files are called American Pattern.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Most of my older tools from prior to the 90’s are in better shape and hold their edge longer. 
I have my 1940’s era hand saw from my grandfather and when I sharpen it the edge lasts for a lot longer then the cheaper new saws.
When I set the teeth on newer ones I can almost see as they drive back to strait after each use.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

A little over 20 years ago my van was broken into and some tools stolen. Part of what was stolen were a couple of sets of wrenches I purchased as a teenager in the mid 60's. Reading this thread has made my heart ache about that incident. Those were nice wrenches and they has sentimental value. 

I used to go to yard sales a lot and my wife constantly asked me not to buy some old tools and bring them home to add to my clutter.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

oldsparky52 said:


> A little over 20 years ago my van was broken into and some tools stolen. Part of what was stolen were a couple of sets of wrenches I purchased as a teenager in the mid 60's. Reading this thread has made my heart ache about that incident. Those were nice wrenches and they has sentimental value.
> 
> I used to go to yard sales a lot and my wife constantly asked me not to buy some old tools and bring them home to add to my clutter.


Terrible. Some of my best tools are old tools I won't use any more, or will only use on a very special occasion, because I don't want to lose them, break them, etc., I want them sitting in the toolbox drawer, just the way they are.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Regarding new files - Nichols Chinese makers probably uses whatever steel is on special at the Wuhan recycling center, if the tomato can plant dumped scrap just before Nichols bought steel, you get a tomato can file. I think it's a lot harder than meets the eye to make a good file. I recently bought a couple Kobalt that seemed OK when I bought them, a good size like about 6" and a good medium pattern that ought to be good for general use, but they hardly cut any more on the push than the pull, just useless. I bought a couple unbranded from a little cardboard box on the clearance table at the supply house, too small for a lot of things but they cut really well. 

There is an old hardware store here that is like some kind of curiosity shop. Talking to the people at the register, the man that owned it died decades ago and his wife can't stand to sell it. It's only open spordically and the inventory is a mix of dollar store junk in a few bins near the entrance, some seasonal stuff like snow shovels or grass seed, and dusty old shelves with ancient hardware and tools. There is a lot of very old machine shop stuff there, I suspect they sold hardware to the rail yard that used to be down the street, big bandsaw blades, punches and pins, and a big stack of files. Too big for my work but now I am curious to try one and see how it cuts.


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## Superman (Mar 19, 2019)

i have purchased tools from Harry J Epstein. New old stock on many American made tools.
HJE Home American Made


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

From what I've heard the Portugal made bahco files are one of the best when it comes to new files. I think bahco might make several different lines of files so it might pay to research out the good ones. Several years ago when I was researching this stuff it seems to me that grobet files were still held in high regard. Things change so fast now days who knows though. Nicholson is basically garbage now. I'm sure the specs on the steel are basically the same as they always have been but the care taken in forming the teeth and heat treating is no longer there. 

There used to be an Australian feller on YouTube called clickspring who had a video where he made his own file. Really really cool videos of building really cool stuff out of nothing.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

SWDweller said:


> I used to purchase a lot of tools from pawn stores. The files I have now are at least 40 years old. I have had them for 30.
> You can check Ebay or other sites for used old tools. Problem I do not believe they can be resharpened
> 
> Watch out some half round files are called American Pattern.


Story about buying tools from pawn shops. My helper goes to thrift stores and pawn shops and buys old worn out tools that have the " lifetime guarantee " such as Klein and brings them for an exchange to Home Depot. He usually buys them for $2 or $3 at the thrift store and walks out of Home Depot with a new screwdriver or pliers. He is already flagged at several stores.


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

My two cents. If your wearing out files on rigid conduit running, your doing it wrong. Use a rigid pipe cutter in good condition, there will be no external burrs to file off. For the interior use a Rigid pipe reamer in good condition, done properly there will be no need to file the inside of the conduit, unless you are running over 2” conduit.

Treat all of your files like a hand saw, they only cut on the push stroke, lift it out of the cut on the return stroke. Do not drag it on the backstroke unless you want to dull it prematurely.

For quality files buy them at a machinist supply store that sells endmills and cutter inserts, not at a box store that sells on price. Machinist won’t accept tools that don’t cut metal reliably.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

If you go to YouTube METAL TIPS AND TRICKS Sharpening Files he explains how to sharpen files.

Also look at YouTube I FILED BACKWARDS 2500 TIMES ,THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED.

He also uses PFERD files I think they art a German company but they have a presence in the US. Maybe in Wisconsin
LC


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

I was always taught if you use a file wrong it will not cut until you clean the teeth especially on soft material like conduit. I haven't seen a file brush in years but a few wipes use to fix the problem.


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

Half-round file, What are you using it for?
Lots of variables:
Do you want a Rasp or a File? Coarse Cut , Single Cut Mill Bastard, Double Cut Mill Bastard, Second Cut, or Smooth?
Tempered Steel or Case Hardened?
Steel or Industrial Diamond?


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Superman said:


> i have purchased tools from Harry J Epstein. New old stock on many American made tools.
> HJE Home American Made


Do you live in Kansas City? I stop in Harry J Epsteins every time I go downtown. That place is like going back in time.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

NoBot said:


> Half-round file, What are you using it for?
> Lots of variables:
> Do you want a Rasp or a File? Coarse Cut , Single Cut Mill Bastard, Double Cut Mill Bastard, Second Cut, or Smooth?
> Tempered Steel or Case Hardened?
> Steel or Industrial Diamond?


I like the double cut mill bastard. Tempered. Has better flex and longer life.
I also like the knife file in single and double cut. Tempered. Great for getting rid of soft foot on motor alinement. When just a hair Needs to be shaved and you ran out of proper shims


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

Mellow said:


> I need a new half round file for a rigid job. I know files are a cheap and replaceable tool, but are any brands made with better steel that last longer? I got about 2 years out of my Bahco half round with periodic use, and it's very dulled. Was wondering if you vintage tool guys think picking up an old USA made half round file at a garage sale might be superior to the Chinese made files from Home Depot. Even Nicholson is made in China nowadays...


Dumb question, are you using a file card?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

CMP said:


> Treat all of your files like a hand saw, they only cut on the push stroke, lift it out of the cut on the return stroke. Do not drag it on the backstroke unless you want to dull it prematurely.


You might be surprised.


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## Mellow (Jul 14, 2018)

NoBot said:


> Half-round file, What are you using it for?
> Lots of variables:
> Do you want a Rasp or a File? Coarse Cut , Single Cut Mill Bastard, Double Cut Mill Bastard, Second Cut, or Smooth?
> Tempered Steel or Case Hardened?
> Steel or Industrial Diamond?


Who are you calling a double cut mill bastard? 
Joking aside, I had no idea there were a million file types. I'm using it for 4" rigid conduit right now. In the past and future.... strut, stainless strut, regular emt, and deburring my toenails.


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## Mellow (Jul 14, 2018)

Mbit said:


> Dumb question, are you using a file card?


I'm not, and I had to Google what that was. Had no idea it existed.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Mellow said:


> I'm not, and I had to Google what that was. Had no idea it existed.


i just use a standard wire brush when needed


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

Mellow said:


> Who are you calling a double cut mill bastard?
> Joking aside, I had no idea there were a million file types. I'm using it for 4" rigid conduit right now. In the past and future.... strut, stainless strut, regular emt, and deburring my toenails.


Best choice is a half round double cut bastard. Also known as a double cut mill bastard because they were the favorite of Millwrights


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

Mellow said:


> I'm not, and I had to Google what that was. Had no idea it existed.


Hey dude we're all learning every day. That's what separates us from the guys who wear welders caps under their hardhat....🤣


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

CMP said:


> My two cents. If your wearing out files on rigid conduit running, your doing it wrong. Use a rigid pipe cutter in good condition, there will be no external burrs to file off. For the interior use a Rigid pipe reamer in good condition, done properly there will be no need to file the inside of the conduit, unless you are running over 2” conduit.
> 
> Treat all of your files like a hand saw, they only cut on the push stroke, lift it out of the cut on the return stroke. Do not drag it on the backstroke unless you want to dull it prematurely.
> 
> For quality files buy them at a machinist supply store that sells endmills and cutter inserts, not at a box store that sells on price. Machinist won’t accept tools that don’t cut metal reliably.


What he said, I also keep my files in a cardboard cover made with duct tape, so they don't bounce around in the tool box, it helps


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

gpop said:


> I was always taught if you use a file wrong it will not cut until you clean the teeth especially on soft material like conduit. I haven't seen a file brush in years but a few wipes use to fix the problem.


This is true for band saw blades also, I was taught to cut a piece of steel after cutting soft stuff to clean out the teeth before it sets hard.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

I've heard it advised in various metalworking circles to have dedicated files for each material. A set for steel, a set for aluminum, a set for brass, etc.


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

mburtis said:


> I've heard it advised in various metalworking circles to have dedicated files for each material. A set for steel, a set for aluminum, a set for brass, etc.


Having been in manufacturing QA/ Mfg Engineering from baby beds to Stealth bombers and from Nuclear missiles to potato harvesters....food delivery trams for prisons to wind turbines generators....nope, I have NEVER heard of any production shop that ever had files for each material. 
Did some manufacturing employees do that at Lockheed? I would bet they did...as they could get the files issued to them over time on different jobs. Many of those guys collected thousands of tools over the years at government expense. I know that as an inspector I collected yards of precision shim stock in various thicknesses. They were extremely useful in my jobs and even at home later.

Did any or some of the manufacturing companies have NO files at all? YUP. Files were almost never seen or heard of in any precision shop or precision assembly area. If they were used it was not by the average employee.


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

mburtis said:


> I've heard it advised in various metalworking circles to have dedicated files for each material. A set for steel, a set for aluminum, a set for brass, etc.


There is some truth to that. If you're working stainless you do not want to contaminate it with non stainless steel. Gotta have separate tools


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Mbit said:


> There is some truth to that. If you're working stainless you do not want to contaminate it with non stainless steel. Gotta have separate tools


Well I didn't know about the contamination. Thanks for my learning of the day!


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

mburtis said:


> I've heard it advised in various metalworking circles to have dedicated files for each material. A set for steel, a set for aluminum, a set for brass, etc.


I remember someone telling me it's good to break in new files on brass then use it for steel. So you always use your newest file for brass, steel files are hand-me-downs from brass.


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## timeless (Jul 17, 2014)

CMP said:


> My two cents. If your wearing out files on rigid conduit running, your doing it wrong. Use a rigid pipe cutter in good condition, there will be no external burrs to file off. For the interior use a Rigid pipe reamer in good condition, done properly there will be no need to file the inside of the conduit, unless you are running over 2” conduit.
> 
> Treat all of your files like a hand saw, they only cut on the push stroke, lift it out of the cut on the return stroke. Do not drag it on the backstroke unless you want to dull it prematurely.
> 
> For quality files buy them at a machinist supply store that sells endmills and cutter inserts, not at a box store that sells on price. Machinist won’t accept tools that don’t cut metal reliably.


GREAT ADVICE AND SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Half-round file on 2" and larger conduit.

Rat-tail file on the smaller sizes.

The rat-tail will work on all sizes if you're trying to keep the tools to a minimum.

As far as different files for different materials, I was taught that is true.

Learned about using the correct file based on the material.

A buddy's Dad was a metallurgist at NASA, Johnson Space Center, working on materials used during the Apollo Missions.

Of course he was working with "exotic" metals that he said would dull a file in a stroke or two.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

Most of my knowledge of files comes from guys building 5000 dollar hand built muzzleloading longrifles and other high demand niches so I'm not sure how it applies to general industry.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I don’t have any dull files. I loose them long before they go dull. I also don’t drag them backwards and don’t loan them out. I don’t loan out tin snips either. Not since a guy borrowed mine to cut some hardened Caddy clips with them years ago.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I have tools from my GGrandfather that basically don't even rust, there is nothing like old tool steel composition.

I've always stayed with Nicholson of Sandvik files and they hold up just fine.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have tools from my GGrandfather that basically don't even rust, there is nothing like old tool steel composition.
> 
> I've always stayed with Nicholson of Sandvik files and they hold up just fine.


Nicholson used to be such a good brand. Sadly once they moved production to Mexico and Brazil their qaulity went down a long ways. The predictable demise of a once great American company by current generations relying on the legacy of previous generations while lowering standards to get rich. Probably still work just fine for knocking burrs off pipe but utterly useless for demanding applications like sharpening saws.


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## tonytonon48 (Jan 4, 2022)

The last file I bought (6 yrs ago) was a Nicholson bastard file and marked made in Brazil. It has served me well when used on old elec panels (12 gauge, soft steel?)


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

CMP said:


> My two cents. If your wearing out files on rigid conduit running, your doing it wrong. Use a rigid pipe cutter in good condition, there will be no external burrs to file off. For the interior use a Rigid pipe reamer in good condition, done properly there will be no need to file the inside of the conduit, unless you are running over 2” conduit.
> 
> Treat all of your files like a hand saw, they only cut on the push stroke, lift it out of the cut on the return stroke. Do not drag it on the backstroke unless you want to dull it prematurely.
> 
> For quality files buy them at a machinist supply store that sells endmills and cutter inserts, not at a box store that sells on price. Machinist won’t accept tools that don’t cut metal reliably.


 The old timers would tell me to let the tool do the work. I usally get the deer in headlights stare when I mention that to helpers.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

40 plus years in the trade and I have never been compelled to but out a file on a piece of pipe. If I need to ream a piece of rigid, I use a reamer, if it’s EMT, it’s a piece of 3/8 allthread.
I have a couple of younger guys that want to file the ends of unistrut, the only good thing about that is I know who is getting layed off first.🤫


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> 40 plus years in the trade and I have never been compelled to but out a file on a piece of pipe. If I need to ream a piece of rigid, I use a reamer, if it’s EMT, it’s a piece of 3/8 allthread.
> I have a couple of younger guys that want to file the ends of unistrut, the only good thing about that is I know who is getting layed off first.🤫


Hey I file the cut ends of Strut, but I had my own file and did it after I cut the strut on my way to get to the location where I am installing it. (The band saw, or the Porter band, was often in one central location or two locations on the floor, and everyone had to share them.“)

Then on one job, I guess The job specs, the GC, or just the electrical contractor provided plastic caps to slam onto the end of all cut pieces of strut. So I got into a big argument with someone else who was filing the ends of theirs because I was no longer filing the ends of mine , and he claimed I was “knocking down conditions.“

Of course, his brother was in the pipefitters union. And in that union, which is very small and only represents a couple hundred people, (do not confuse pipefitters with plumbers) they were still working under union rules where they had to thread their own threaded rod , and they did not have to provide any handtools themselves whatsoever other than a pad to write things down in and a pencil or pen.

Once the brush guard caps were installed on the end of strut, it was practically impossible to get them off even if you tried, and I argued that it was not a safety thing, it was simply a make works thing … And at this moment the local was pushing the eight for eight (well in our case seven for seven since we worked 35 hour weeks in New York City not 40, before overtime kicks in) as well as a campaign to focus on productivity led by the international.

Some people it seems, just can’t shake off the old ways and live in the here and now, and reality Like the rest of us. They get taught somethings someway, and think that everybody who does it different is wrong.


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