# 2017 code change breaker locks



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Sometimes it appears that every three years the code guys get together and search for stuff that makes electrical work easy for the installing people, and they stomp the foot on that somehow or another , making the job more expensive, or just plain undoable. It reminds me of how women act.


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## Anathera (Feb 16, 2016)

I've seen some people do loto clips but I don't like the look or having to take the lock off to get the flash cover off. Until I'm told different I'm going to assume 700 overrides more general rules


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

110.25 and nowhere does it talk about tools.


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## Anathera (Feb 16, 2016)

My understanding is the change in the definition of readily accessible makes the qo breaker locks no longer readily accessible


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Here it is. Not readily removed.


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## Anathera (Feb 16, 2016)

I'm asking more about the locks that lock a breaker in the closed position not the open


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Anathera said:


> I'm asking more about the locks that lock a breaker in the closed position not the open


I have not seen a code requirement for that. This ref is for open only and would not cover that. I'd say you're good to go.


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## Anathera (Feb 16, 2016)

Fire alarm systems have to have them.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

In looking at this ref 110.25, the change is not in the use of the lock, it the wording and cord and plug connections. 

So your fire alarm systems are covered by fire code, not NEC?


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

110.25 is referring to LOTO devices.

NFPA 70- 760.41 (B)- Non-Power limited, and 760.121(B) Power limited, the branch circuit supplying fire alarm equipment shall be identified in red and labeled "Fire Alarm Circuit" and shall be accessible *only to qualified personnel*.

This is generally interpreted that if the panel is not in a secured area, the breaker lock should require tools to remove. 

NFPA-72 10.6.5.4 Specifically requires that a listed circuit breaker locking device be installed on the branch circuit supplying fire alarm equipment.

The "use tools" change was in the 2014 NEC, not the 2017, but I would say in both NFPA-70 and NFPA-72 the intent is to prevent power from being shut off (accidentally or not) to the fire alarm equipment and any inspector that would push "readily accessible" on a fire alarm breaker lock would be a fool as it's there for a reason.


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## Anathera (Feb 16, 2016)

Cool that's what I'm going with then. Thanks guys


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Signal1 said:


> 110.25 is referring to LOTO devices.
> 
> NFPA 70- 760.41 (B)- Non-Power limited, and 760.121(B) Power limited, the branch circuit supplying fire alarm equipment shall be identified in red and labeled "Fire Alarm Circuit" and shall be accessible *only to qualified personnel*.
> 
> ...


The OP asked about the 2017 NEC changes, there is nothing in 2014 or 2017 about tools required to remove. The only change was the word " Where" was replaced with if. This is how urban legends start.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

backstay said:


> The OP asked about the 2017 NEC changes, there is nothing in 2014 or 2017 about tools required to remove. The only change was the word " Where" was replaced with if. This is how urban legends start.


Regarding 110.25 you are correct. That is for locking a disconnect *OFF*

The OP's question has nothing to do with Locking out, he was talking about breaker locks for a fire alarm panel to keep the circuit *ON* and whether they must be readily accessible.

In post #5 Anathera referred to using tools (like a screwdriver) to remove a breaker lock would make it *not*-readily accessible.

Read the definition of readily accessible - it now says "action such as to use tools". That was added in 2014. The phrase (other than using keys) was added in 2017.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Signal1 said:


> Regarding 110.25 you are correct. That is for locking a disconnect *OFF*
> 
> The OP's question has nothing to do with Locking out, he was talking about breaker locks for a fire alarm panel to keep the circuit *ON* and whether they must be readily accessible.
> 
> ...



Hey signal .,,

Thanks for clear up on that detail due I am on 2011 modifed NEC code in Philippines so I am little behind but we will be kicking the later edition pretty soon I do not know when yet. 

But I am glad you make good point there.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Signal1 said:


> Regarding 110.25 you are correct. That is for locking a disconnect *OFF*
> 
> The OP's question has nothing to do with Locking out, he was talking about breaker locks for a fire alarm panel to keep the circuit *ON* and whether they must be readily accessible.
> 
> ...


I must not be reading the same thread you are. His question is two part. The first part is no, the NEC does not say you need tools. His second part is meaning less because there was no change. Just the word where vs if. 



Anathera said:


> *So I was told that 2017 nec no longer allows breaker locks that cannot be removed without tools.* What does this mean for the traditional sqd qo breaker lock we have been using for fire alarm circuits?
> 
> As a side note are any of the square d reps on here still that could suggest a product that could satisfy the fire alarm requirements without requiring a tool to remove


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Signal1 said:


> 110.25 is referring to LOTO devices.
> 
> NFPA 70- 760.41 (B)- Non-Power limited, and 760.121(B) the branch circuit supplying fire alarm equipment shall be identified in red


So using blue or black would be a violation.........how about the neutral, must it be red also? Red ground as well??

Inquiring minds want to know.....lol.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

micromind said:


> So using blue or black would be a violation.........how about the neutral, must it be red also? Red ground as well??
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know.....lol.


C'mon micro, I gave the code reference, look it up.

760.41(B) AND 760.121(B)-_"the branch circuit disconnecting means shall have red identification"_


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

backstay said:


> I must not be reading the same thread you are. His question is two part. The first part is no, the NEC does not say you need tools. His second part is meaning less because there was no change. Just the word where vs if.


backstay, I know you are a smart guy, so I guess we just don't seem to see this the same way.

You keep referring to 110.25, *not relevant.* 

Take a look at the definition of _readily accessible_- it clearly says _"action such as to use tools"_.

This is why Anathera is questioning the use of a breaker lock that has a screw as opposed to one that just clips on. He even posted a picture of one.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Signal1 said:


> backstay, I know you are a smart guy, so I guess we just don't seem to see this the same way.
> 
> You keep referring to 110.25, *not relevant.*
> 
> ...


You really need to READ the op.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Hey signal .,,
> 
> Thanks for clear up on that detail due I am on 2011 modifed NEC code in Philippines so I am little behind but we will be kicking the later edition pretty soon I do not know when yet.
> 
> But I am glad you make good point there.



Hey this is neat to read,, I just found out that the Philippines are one code ahead of Hawaii. I still use the 8 every day. We got's the bestest AHJ's in the world as far as I know. Maybe somebody from India or Haiti might come in and prove me wrong though.


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