# 60 circuit load center



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

just too bad its CH... bunch of garbage.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> just too bad its CH... bunch of garbage.


I would use one without a second thought.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I would use one without a second thought.


so would i.. thats all we install. Still doesnt set aside the fact that cutler hammer stuff is garbage. To be specific, CH-BR and the tubs/KO's and neutral bar placement.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

I like.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It's not painted gray. Brown panels are the second sign of being installed by a hack (after you-know-what!). :laughing:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

I'd use it:










> • Additional knockouts along each side wall for surface applications.
> • Easily add breakers with neutral bars that extend the entire length of the bus.
> • Fits within standard stud width.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

I used one a few weeks ago I did not use any of the neutral clip-on breakers though.
It's a big MF but the key hole cover does kick ass.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't like the neutral bar placement.. Murray has the right idea putting them closer to the outer edge of the panel and not part of the buss assembly..

The copper buss should make some members happy here...


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Sounds like a Ford vs. Chevy argument.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The clip on ones do clean up the panel without the pigtails. Probably not a lot in stock compared to the conventional type. I'd use it or any of the other large panels out there. Siemens has advertised one for a while. Seen it at the show last year or the year before. I'm sure sure they and siemens will have it at Mohegan on Friday.


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## thoenew (Jan 17, 2012)

We've installed a couple of them. They're definitely useful. The closer neutral is faster and looks better.:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> just too bad its CH... bunch of garbage.


CH-CH is not garbage, it's top notch.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I don't like the neutral bar placement.. Murray has the right idea putting them closer to the outer edge of the panel and not part of the buss assembly..
> 
> The copper buss should make some members happy here...


Only you would look at a premium CH-CH loadcenter and then say that Murray is better.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Only you would look at a premium CH-CH loadcenter and then say that Murray is better.


I said the *design* of the neutral bars was better.. try reading the words slower next time...


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I said the *design* of the neutral bars was better.. try reading the words slower next time...


Cmon guy, you think Murray is better than everything.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

They don't sell Murray in my area. Not sure of the quality of them?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> They don't sell Murray in my area. Not sure of the quality of them?


They are identical to Siemens panels but worse, they don't have staked, tri drive screws in the neutral/ground bars, and don't have a copper bus.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> They don't sell Murray in my area. Not sure of the quality of them?


How long do you guarantee your work for?

How long does your DVD player last?

How long does your truck last?

How long do you want your breaker panels to last?

One brand of residential panel is no better or worse than another....

Some guys here think spending more money for a product means it is better than a cheaper one.. good luck with that.. :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> They are identical to Siemens panels but worse, they don't have staked, tri drive screws in the neutral/ground bars, and don't have a copper bus.


Better check again.. tri drive screws are standard and why do you want copper bus when AL is just as good... :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> One brand of residential panel is no better or worse than another....
> 
> Some guys here think spending more money for a product means it is better than a cheaper one.. good luck with that.. :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:



There is no way you can tell me that a Murray is better than a CH-CH. The CH is superior in every way. And it has nothing to do with price but everything to do with design features.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> There is no way you can tell me that a Murray is better than a CH-CH. The CH is superior in every way. And it has nothing to do with price but everything to do with design features.


*AGAIN*.. you have trouble reading what I have posted.. one design of residential panel is no better or worse than another...

Even better... show me a study that backs up your rant.... :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> *AGAIN*.. you have trouble reading what I have posted.. one design of residential panel is no better or worse than another...
> 
> Even better... show me a study that backs up your rant.... :thumbsup:


Stop it with your ridiculous "I need a study".  I don't think anyone has ever done that study. A 1" breaker that stabs onto an aluminum bus bar is a design that is prone to failure, as evidences by the countless failures we see all the time with melted bus bars. The CH and QO design is far superior and makes a much better bus contact.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Stop it with your ridiculous "I need a study".  I don't think anyone has ever done that study. A 1" breaker that stabs onto an aluminum bus bar is a design that is prone to failure, as evidences by the countless failures we see all the time with melted bus bars. The CH and QO design is far superior and makes a much better bus contact.


:sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Out of curiousity.. What is wrong is CH-CH models? I like them alot, but maybe you guys know something I do not. :001_huh:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Peter D said:


> CH-CH is not garbage, it's top notch.


never said that:thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I don't like the neutral bar placement.. Murray has the right idea putting them closer to the outer edge of the panel and not part of the buss assembly..
> 
> The copper buss should make some members happy here...


Read the damn links, the neutral bar is where it is becuse GFCI and AFCI breakers plug into it


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Read the damn links, the neutral bar is where it is because GFCI and AFCI breakers plug into it


I saw that.. but adding circuits to panels that have neutral bar so close to where the breakers are is a PIA if you can't shut the panel down...

Now don't go off about live work.. old news and I am exempt....


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I saw that.. but adding circuits to panels that have neutral bar so close to where the breakers are is a PIA if you can't shut the panel down...


You land the new neutral on the bar before you put in the new breaker. I am missing the hard part.

Honestly if the shop sent me a Murry I would install it, I rarely specify a brand, just the size / type I need and they (purchasing) shop it out. Or in new construction it has already been decided.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Not saying one is better than the other , but as far as placement of neutral bars and whatnot, I prefer the Siemens/Murray over Homeline/Ch/qo etc etc...I find its much easier to make up a panel with arc faults using the Siemens brand.


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## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

B4T said:


> I don't like the neutral bar placement.


Eaton rep said they make one like the normal CH panel as well. 

I just havent seen one yet.

This was the one he brought to lunch

(did I mention I am in Indiana, and we are the last to see new stuff hit shelves of supply house)?


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## thoenew (Jan 17, 2012)

Not having pigtailed neutrals looks much better.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Just spoke to my supply houses SQD rep the last week. He mentioned they are coming out with a QO plug in full space 54 ckt and full 60 ckt, both panels will have plug in neutral, so like ch no more pigtail neutrals. As of now they have a 40/60 ckt that sells for around 290 if you have there wonderfully screwball CPA that they have most of us locked into


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

My biggest request from SQD for a long time on there single phase res plug in QO panels is to have the top and bottom blank like there I- line and NQOD panels. All our high end residential services a/c gray plywood with trough across top of panels, all branch romex line leveled in rows of staples at angle. Then equipment ground bars in trough. Clean with no equipment grounds in panel. Trough on bottom with just service entrance sets in them. With thousands of posts here, I have yet to see anyone take it to that level with high end residential on this site


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## yankeewired (Jul 3, 2008)

Peter D said:


> There is no way you can tell me that a Murray is better than a CH-CH. The CH is superior in every way. And it has nothing to do with price but everything to do with design features.



Does the CH-CH Arc Fault breakers have diagnostic leds? If yes then I would agree.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

123electric said:


> Just spoke to my supply houses SQD rep the last week. He mentioned they are coming out with a QO plug in full space 54 ckt and full 60 ckt, both panels will have plug in neutral, so like ch no more pigtail neutrals. As of now they have a 40/60 ckt that sells for around 290 if you have there wonderfully screwball CPA that they have most of us locked into


Plug on neutral? Bout damn time! :thumbup:


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes I was shocked to when our Sqd area rep informed me about there plug on neutral bus as well like you said about time!


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## yankeewired (Jul 3, 2008)

Every Manufacturer should be mandated to make arc and ground faults that plug onto a neutral bar . All those darn curly cues fill up the space requirement and are a downright mess .


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

yankeewired said:


> All those darn curly cues fill up the space requirement and are a downright mess .


I put my screwdriver in the middle of the loops and pull the breaker toward me..

The pigtail straightens right out.. :thumbsup:


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

123electric said:


> My biggest request from SQD for a long time on there single phase res plug in QO panels is to have the top and bottom blank like there I- line and NQOD panels. All our high end residential services a/c gray plywood with trough across top of panels, all branch romex line leveled in rows of staples at angle. Then equipment ground bars in trough. Clean with no equipment grounds in panel. Trough on bottom with just service entrance sets in them. With thousands of posts here, I have yet to see anyone take it to that level with high end residential on this site


Assuming ur service comes in from the top how do u install the trough across it


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## thoenew (Jan 17, 2012)

yankeewired said:


> Does the CH-CH Arc Fault breakers have diagnostic leds? If yes then I would agree.


They're available, but apparently have bugs to work out yet.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Called our local supply house, at $340.00 i think its a lil steep!


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Sounds a bit high. They quoted me 290 with the little bs CPA crap, lol


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

But here lies the key question to the bidder and tightwad customer.......How much does it cost?


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

denny3992 said:


> Called our local supply house, at $340.00 i think its a lil steep!


And they only had 1 between the 5 branches they have!


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

TOOL_5150 said:


> just too bad its CH... bunch of garbage.


 
Why though? I thought it was second to QO? Some say even first?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I have a 60/120 CHCH in the back of the truck right now.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

I have a 120/240 CHCH in my garage right now! :jester:


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