# Does side work pay??



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

Normally I've always said no to side work just because I don't like dealing with homeowners. I'm mainly a commercial guy may dabble in some industrial from time to time. But lately kinda need some extra $$. I got an old guy that wants me to hook up his pole barn. Like 14 8' shop lights and some outlets and welder outlet something a 100 amps should be no problem for. But he only has a 200 amp on a 4 pole breaker looks like? And 4/0 feeding the 200 amp panel in the house I've only seen these pics but I'm curious to see how full the panel is inside but he told me it was full. So which in turn would mean that this service is just about maxed out right. Idk I kinda wanted to know what u dudes thought


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Just because the inside panel is full doesn't mean the service is maxed out. To determine that you would need to do a load calculation per NEC Art. 220.

That being said, I see two empty breaker spaces in that picture :whistling2:


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

erics37 said:


> Just because the inside panel is full doesn't mean the service is maxed out. To determine that you would need to do a load calculation per NEC Art. 220.
> 
> That being said, I see two empty breaker spaces in that picture :whistling2:


That's kinda what I was thinking but this all comin from the old man and i havent been able to veiw in person but it almost looked like that neutral bar is kinda in the way and full so then I could just put a ground bar kit as for all the grounds as long as I bond it with that neutral bar right?


----------



## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

so you are planning on buying new tools and equipment with the money from this job?

Just being an arse. since you posted in this section


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

another option is turn EVERYTHING on and do a load check with amprobe. probly not maxed, unless theres more than the house on this. by the way, what brand panel is that? looks like ge but not clearby the way, with everthing on you derate full load as per tables


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Did you just get off a horse ?


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

dronai said:


> Did you just get off a horse ?


 WHO, ME? nope last horse i got off was rode wet and put away hard!:laughing:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

papaotis said:


> WHO, ME? nope last horse i got off was rode wet and put away hard!:laughing:


No the OP's picture :laughing:


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

dronai said:


> No the OP's picture :laughing:


Might have to get one I hear this place is in the boonies


----------



## ed-flip (Feb 13, 2013)

highly doubt a 200amp service is maxed out especially in a house. You can also use tandem breakers to get more space.


----------



## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

200 amp service should be fine. Very doubtful that he'll be running everything in his house while he's outside playing in his pole barn anyway


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

bkmichael65 said:


> 200 amp service should be fine. Very doubtful that he'll be running everything in his house while he's outside playing in his pole barn anyway


He will never brake 100 amps.


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

Cool I appreciate the insight. Like I said I normally don't do side work. I'm just a 3rd year apprentice and have a decent grasp but just question myself but it's easy at work with the jman to answer questions. Just don't know if sidework is work is worth the trouble depending on the job.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Jstanton27 said:


> Normally I've always said no to side work just because I don't like dealing with homeowners. I'm mainly a commercial guy may dabble in some industrial from time to time. But lately kinda need some extra $$.


So, you're a 3rd year _'commercial guy'_, who has a full time gig looking for some extra side $$$ in resi work?

Lotta profit in it for you, because *YOU* have zero overhead compared to all the EC's you're posting with here

But hey, just keep asking us real EC's advice on sh*t you've no _clue_ about, us _'dudes'_ will be more than happy to help you slice all our throats 

~CS~


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Yeah theres money in it but a lot of the unemplyed goat herders here will get jealous and asshurt that your working and there not.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Goldagain said:


> Yeah theres money in it but a lot of the unemplyed goat herders here will get jealous and asshurt that your working and there not.


Don't forget all the electrical software flat rate salesfolks who are constantly pushing a level playing field Goldone, or perhaps they should rethink software for moonlighting trunkslamers eh? ~CS~


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

By the time you add up all the hours you spend on this job talking to the customer, running around looking for material and figuring things out, you will wish you never got involved. You said it yourself, you don't like dealing with homeowners. 

The only way the guys on this forum make a buck on a job like this is through efficiency - they arrive on site, pull the ladders off the truck and get to work. They knock it off fast and cash the check. You're going to be running around looking for bits and pieces that these guys have in a magic box in the back of the truck.

There's gotta be a better way for you to make a few extra bucks.


----------



## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

You will get some real life experience. Might be ok.


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> So, you're a 3rd year 'commercial guy', who has a full time gig looking for some extra side $$$ in resi work?
> 
> Lotta profit in it for you, because YOU have zero overhead compared to all the EC's you're posting with here
> 
> ...


Well I'll be happy to take u up on ur offer obviously you must of been born with the god givin talent of electricity and no one ever had to throw u a bone. I'm also sorry if my lack of knowledge and troglodyte vocabulary offends you didn't know I was in the company of scholars mr chicken s**t


----------



## Acadian9 (Jun 6, 2009)

Jstanton27 said:


> Well I'll be happy to take u up on ur offer obviously you must of been born with the god givin talent of electricity and no one ever had to throw u a bone. I'm also sorry if my lack of knowledge and troglodyte vocabulary offends you didn't know I was in the company of scholars mr chicken s**t


I hope you will be getting a permit for this side work. Oh wait... :no:


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

Acadian9 said:


> I hope you will be getting a permit for this side work. Oh wait... :no:


Apparently my EC is alot less worried about me taking business away than some kinda cool when he'll pull a permit for guy trying to get a new truck


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Dont sweat it Stanton, once some people become contractors they pretend they never did sidework.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Jstanton27 said:


> Normally I've always said no to side work just because I don't like dealing with homeowners. I'm mainly a commercial guy may dabble in some industrial from time to time. But lately kinda need some extra $$. I got an old guy that wants me to hook up his pole barn. Like 14 8' shop lights and some outlets and welder outlet something a 100 amps should be no problem for. But he only has a 200 amp on a 4 pole breaker looks like? And 4/0 feeding the 200 amp panel in the house I've only seen these pics but I'm curious to see how full the panel is inside but he told me it was full. So which in turn would mean that this service is just about maxed out right. Idk I kinda wanted to know what u dudes thought


 
Maybe since you have to ask you should tell them to find someone qualified to do it.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Jstanton27 said:


> Well I'll be happy to take u up on ur offer obviously you must of been born with the god givin talent of electricity and no one ever had to throw u a bone. I'm also sorry if my lack of knowledge and troglodyte vocabulary offends you didn't know I was in the company of scholars mr chicken s**t


Ummmm...this is a website for professional electricians. Maybe you should join www.moonlightingapprenticewithattitude.com.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Just put the breaker in and run the pipe and wire already. :laughing:


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

99cents said:


> Ummmm...this is a website for professional electricians. Maybe you should join www.moonlightingapprenticewithattitude.com.


I bet your a hit at the local parts store cake eater


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Jstanton27 said:


> I bet your a hit at the local parts store cake eater


All that and I can spell too.


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

The Church Is Overflowing With Spirit


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Jstanton27 said:


> Apparently my EC is alot less worried about me taking business away than some kinda cool when he'll pull a permit for guy trying to get a new truck


Yeah, becasue he's a big commercial guy. He doesn't care that you're taking work away from the "lowly resi guys". 

Yeah, we all did some side work, thing is, it's best to know what you're doing BEFORE doing it. Sure, asking questions is the first step, but if you think that is a 4-pole breaker, and that a panel is maxed out because there is no breaker room, I'd say it's time to brush up on things and get some real world residential experience. Doing commercial/industrial work only is NOT a good experience base to draw on for doing resi work. Especially after only 3 years.
Add this to the self professed fact that you don't like dealing with customers makes it a tough call. You honestly sound like the quintessential union/commercial/industrial guy. I know of a lot of guys just like you. MOst were miserable doing side work but got used to the money and living above their means (not necessarily you though). Stick with what you know and you'll be MUCH better off in the long run IMO.


----------



## BraddaJ (Feb 23, 2013)

Passing the cheese platter around...


----------



## BraddaJ (Feb 23, 2013)

Oh and side work does pay... But if you have no residential experience, I wouldn't recommend doing it alone


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Goldagain said:


> Dont sweat it Stanton, once some people become contractors they pretend they never did sidework.


This post deserves two thumbs up. :thumbup:

I'd take a bet that close to 90% of us have been side jobbers before. I have a legit business that I run on the side, I know how hard it is to make a buck. When your competing against other EC's, side jobbers, and every other clown in town, its hard to make any money....but, it also isn't exactly easy to make money working for the man either. 

Kinda hard to get mad at a guy for trying to keep food on the table and the bills paid, and thats all side work boils down to anyhow.


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> Yeah, becasue he's a big commercial guy. He doesn't care that you're taking work away from the "lowly resi guys".
> 
> Yeah, we all did some side work, thing is, it's best to know what you're doing BEFORE doing it. Sure, asking questions is the first step, but if you think that is a 4-pole breaker, and that a panel is maxed out because there is no breaker room, I'd say it's time to brush up on things and get some real world residential experience. Doing commercial/industrial work only is NOT a good experience base to draw on for doing resi work. Especially after only 3 years.
> Add this to the self professed fact that you don't like dealing with customers makes it a tough call. You honestly sound like the quintessential union/commercial/industrial guy. I know of a lot of guys just like you. MOst were miserable doing side work but got used to the money and living above their means (not necessarily you though). Stick with what you know and you'll be MUCH better off in the long run IMO.


Well I guess I and now realizing misunderstood with my wording. I pretty sure I was aware that breaker was a 2 pole 200 amp breaker that takes up 4 slots but upon quick look it looks like a 4 pole from the high volt electrician passed down to me cuz thats how first learned bout this job Because he is just as inexperienced about resi as I And realized it would be as simple as throwing a 2 pole 100 amp and wammo. But was mainly directed towards the capacity for the system considering he does have ground source heat and a huge house and his own mechanical room from what i heard not only considering this barn is of quite distance from where these pictures were taken( at least 400 ft) which in turn I would have to upsize my wire starting from 1/0 Direct buried. And if that dinky panel would have enough space to work in. And the code reference to 220.87 helped me but When I insisted it prolly be easier to put a new service on his barn and then I wouldn't have to trench around his house. And no I don't do much residential because I'm to busy being sent bailing all the commercial guys out cuz im the mule a built high volt subs before. So yea I might have trouble with a thermostat from time to time But I can hook up and wire a 230 kva transformer but I'm always willing to learn because I ask questions and am not afraid to say I don't know because this isn't the business to assume And throw it on I bet I would be angered to see how you contractors treat your apprentices


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I started my business doing sidework for $50 an hour/$400 cash a day. Paid for all my tools and first truck.


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> This post deserves two thumbs up. :thumbup:
> 
> I'd take a bet that close to 90% of us have been side jobbers before. I have a legit business that I run on the side, I know how hard it is to make a buck. When your competing against other EC's, side jobbers, and every other clown in town, its hard to make any money....but, it also isn't exactly easy to make money working for the man either.
> 
> (Kinda hard to get mad at a guy for trying to keep food on the table and the bills paid, and thats all side work boils down to anyhow.


)
for some it just buys the extra toys:whistling2:by the way, my toys are tools i couldnt afford before.


----------



## Jstanton27 (Jul 19, 2011)

papaotis said:


> )
> for some it just buys the extra toys:whistling2:by the way, my toys are tools i couldnt afford before.


Amen


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> So, you're a 3rd year _'commercial guy'_, who has a full time gig looking for some extra side $$$ in resi work?
> 
> Lotta profit in it for you, because *YOU* have zero overhead compared to all the EC's you're posting with here
> 
> ...


Is there a single business that wasn't inherited that didn't start out doing side work? Get off your high horse.



BraddaJ said:


> Oh and side work does pay... But if you have no residential experience, I wouldn't recommend doing it alone


I agree


----------



## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

Aside from some that others have mentioned, the VERY first thing I would think about is insurance. If you don't have it, don't do it. Period! If his shop burns down because he's out there lighting farts, the first thing he's going to tell his insurance company is "I just had an unlicensed electrician do some work out there," and you sir are what we call screwed.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jstanton27 said:


> Normally I've always said no to side work just because I don't like dealing with homeowners. I'm mainly a commercial guy may dabble in some industrial from time to time. But lately kinda need some extra $$. I got an old guy that wants me to hook up his pole barn. Like 14 8' shop lights and some outlets and welder outlet something a 100 amps should be no problem for. But he only has a 200 amp on a 4 pole breaker looks like? And 4/0 feeding the 200 amp panel in the house I've only seen these pics but I'm curious to see how full the panel is inside but he told me it was full. So which in turn would mean that this service is just about maxed out right. Idk I kinda wanted to know what u dudes thought


You have room for a 2pole 100 right next to those 1pole 20s.
What's the problem?

Here agricultural work is exempt from permitting.
Maybe find out before you get yourself in trouble.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Jstanton27 said:


> Well I guess I and now realizing misunderstood with my wording. I pretty sure I was aware that breaker was a 2 pole 200 amp breaker that takes up 4 slots but upon quick look it looks like a 4 pole from the high volt electrician passed down to me cuz thats how first learned bout this job Because he is just as inexperienced about resi as I And realized it would be as simple as throwing a 2 pole 100 amp and wammo. But was mainly directed towards the capacity for the system considering he does have ground source heat and a huge house and his own mechanical room from what i heard not only considering this barn is of quite distance from where these pictures were taken( at least 400 ft) which in turn I would have to upsize my wire starting from 1/0 Direct buried. And if that dinky panel would have enough space to work in. And the code reference to 220.87 helped me but When I insisted it prolly be easier to put a new service on his barn and then I wouldn't have to trench around his house. And no I don't do much residential because I'm to busy being sent bailing all the commercial guys out cuz im the mule a built high volt subs before. So yea I might have trouble with a thermostat from time to time But I can hook up and wire a 230 kva transformer but I'm always willing to learn because I ask questions and am not afraid to say I don't know because this isn't the business to assume And throw it on I bet I would be angered to see how you contractors treat your apprentices


After 3 whole years as an apprentice, you're not qualified to work alone on this. In MN you can't take the test as a Master until you have 10,000 documented hours. Then you are able to plan work per the state. As far as making money, I make more fixing these after 3rd years muck it up.


----------

