# Math



## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

Algebra and trigonometry as well as a basic understanding of vectors with a wee bit of logic and of course arithmetic.
Not too much complexity but the equivament of grade 12 maths.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

We require one year of HS algebra with a minimum grade of C. The biggest reason for failures in first year is poor math skills. Also we don't permit the use of calculators for the first six months of class. We do run a 18 to 24 hour math refresher class before you start the actual first year classes.

I helped teach that class one year and was amazed at how poor the math skills were. They had a lot of trouble with fractions and decimals, but as I noted we don't permit calculators and many of the students hadn't done math without a calculator for many many years.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Brush up on multidimensional & vector calculus.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I took math 101 at a local college as a refresher before I applied for the apprenticeship, It had been 20 years since I graduated high school and wanted to get up to date. Lack of math skill tripped up lots o folks. Once in the field good math skills lead to promotions and more money, and people think you are smarter than you are.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Also we don't permit the use of calculators for the first six months of class.


A lot of the kids in high school can't do math without a calculator anymore. When I was in school we got in trouble if we had a calculator, now they get in trouble if they don't have one.
They teach the process instead of actual math facts anymore.

My kids think I'm a tyrant because I don't let them use a calculator an homework.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mattsilkwood said:


> My kids think I'm a tyrant because I don't let them use a calculator an homework.:laughing:


Yeah, you never know when they will be stranded on an island without any calculator and need to do some calculus. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Also we don't permit the use of calculators for the first six months of class.


To me that makes as little sense as requiring them to use a bit brace and Yankee screwdriver for the first six months in the field.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> To me that makes as little sense as requiring them to use a bit brace and Yankee screwdriver for the first six months in the field.


 It depends how deficient their math skills are: If someone literally cannot do long division because the calculator always divided for them, then that's a problem. 

I've done a lot of math with a carpenter's pencil on a wall when I didn't have a calculator.

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> It depends how deficient their math skills are: If someone literally cannot do long division because the calculator always divided for them, then that's a problem.


I see that as a problem like not knowing how to drive a Stanley steamer.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

bosephus256 said:


> It's been years since I've taken any math classes and am worried I won't remember a lot of it.


Brush up. *The Khan Academy* is a great site with free lesson in almost any discipline.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

One of the issues with calculator use is that if that is all you do, you don't have any idea if the number on the calculator is a reasonable number. 

As far as it making sense, I can see both sides of it. If you can't add and subtract fractions without a calculator, I don't want you working for me. That is something that you have to do every day if you are running conduit....that is until I can get my guys to use metric rulers.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

BBQ said:


> To me that makes as little sense as requiring them to use a bit brace and Yankee screwdriver for the first six months in the field.


 The brace and bit was on our required tool list when I started...I never saw anyone use one on the jobsite.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Just for fun I have a slide rule on my workbench. I have an informal collection of them.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

drsparky said:


> Just for fun I have a slide rule on my workbench. I have an informal collection of them.


The typical math student now days doesn't even know what that is.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I see that as a problem like not knowing how to drive a Stanley steamer.


 You've never had to scribble out a quick math problem on the sheetrock? 

I think a guy who was incapable of doing basic math without a calculator would be a liability unless he wasn't being paid to think.

-John


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The brace and bit was on our required tool list when I started...I never saw anyone use one on the jobsite.


I have one and I've used it. I refer to it as my first cordless drill. I also have a Stanley two speed egg-beater type.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

erics37 said:


> Brush up on multidimensional & vector calculus.


theoretical physics and quantum mechanics


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Hell, I need the tape measure with the little fractions written out in the spaces!
Now pay me bitch!::w00t:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I hated and stunk at math until I was in the service going thru electronics school. 
Vector analysis was a killer until one day it just all came together. Now I'm pretty good at it. And we couldn't use a calculator in class back then. Learning it the hard way made it easier to remember and do it right later.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, you never know when they will be stranded on an island without any calculator and need to do some calculus. :laughing:


 Do you use a calculator every time you figure a tip? How about when a cashier overcharges you? Figure material for a small job?
The fact is we use math every day, if you cant do simple calculations on your own you are at a serious disadvantage.

They have their place and they can be handy but to not be able to do ant math without one is just crazy.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

mattsilkwood said:


> Do you use a calculator every time you figure a tip? How about when a cashier overcharges you? Figure material for a small job?
> The fact is we use math every day, if you cant do simple calculations on your own you are at a serious disadvantage.
> 
> They have their place and they can be handy but to not be able to do ant math without one is just crazy.


I have an app for that


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