# Failed Wagos?



## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

I was speaking with another electrician the other day and he was telling me that he doesn't trust Wago's and they fail all the time. He even goes as far as to cut them out and replace with wire nuts when doing can lights. I have used Wago's on lighting with no failures.

I could see how they may fail on a back stabbed receptacle, but there are other issues there. 

Have you seen a Wago fail?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

100% sincere, I have never seen one fail. Seen lots of wire nut failures tho. 

Cutting them out of Halo (and others) cans is throwing $$ in the bin if you ask me.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

The only issue I heard about was over 15 years ago. A certain Wago was not holding #10 and #12 wire. I guess the spring holding the 10 was loose on the 12. Otherwise I love em. 
P.s. the yellow 4 bangers by ideal sold at the home depot seem loose to me as well. I buy the 4 (orange) and six port at the supply house and have no problems. 

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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

It's been a while, but, are Wagos listed for #10s?


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> It's been a while, but, are Wagos listed for #10s?


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

The above was from their site.









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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Pffft! I have used thousands of Wagos and never had a failure. The only failure I have seen, and it's rare, is with Halo. I always check the Wago connections on cans.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

99cents said:


> Pffft! I have used thousands of Wagos and never had a failure. The only failure I have seen, and it's rare, is with Halo. I always check the Wago connections on cans.


We don't use wagos. What ones do you guys recommend to carry typically? That's part of the reason I use the 3M tan reds. I carry one wirenut for 90% of what I do.


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## Stickshaker (Jun 29, 2012)

99cents said:


> The only failure I have seen, and it's rare, is with Halo. I always check the Wago connections on cans.


True! I think about 1 of every 10 wagos in Halo cans don't have the wire pushed in far enough.


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## cad99 (Feb 19, 2012)

Cheap house no budget gets wagos. I have money do it nice 3m wire nuts.never had a wago fail. 


Living the dream one nightmare at a time


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Stickshaker said:


> True! I think about 1 of every 10 wagos in Halo cans don't have the wire pushed in far enough.


This is the most common issue I see. I also don't prefer to use these and will opt for ideal or 3m nuts but a "fail" from a wago, haven't seen it........yet


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

cad99 said:


> Cheap house no budget gets wagos. I have money do it nice 3m wire nuts.never had a wago fail.
> 
> 
> Living the dream one nightmare at a time


Yeah I second that thought, haven't seen problems with the real deal.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I only buy the orange four port Wagos. I like the square pattern. I was given the Ideal ones to try but the ports are in a straight line and the two centre ports are more difficult to push in. If I have more than four wires, I use a wire nut or pigtail from one Wago to another.

I have a trigger thumb that acts up if I twist too many wire nuts. With Wagos, there's no problem.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

99cents said:


> I only buy the orange four port Wagos. I like the square pattern. I was given the Ideal ones to try but the ports are in a straight line and the two centre ports are more difficult to push in. If I have more than four wires, I use a wire nut or pigtail from one Wago to another.
> 
> I have a trigger thumb that acts up if I twist too many wire nuts. With Wagos, there's no problem.


Try this...









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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

zac said:


> Try this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought one thinking it would be neat and I hated it.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

I like the 2 bangers when dealing with crammed spaces.

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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Majewski said:


> I bought one thinking it would be neat and I hated it.


Well I hate you! 
Go easy on the trigger stryker! 

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## Electrozappo (Apr 8, 2014)

The only issue I've seen is that they claim it takes solid as well as stranded. 
I've gotten lucky once with spending 5 minutes trying to shove a stranded #12 in a orange wago. 


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Funny, when I started on this forum, everybody was hard core wire twisters. Wagon pushers had their heads put on a stick. Now, not so much.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I had a GC give me one of those wire nut thingies you put on a drill. I threw it away when he wasn't looking.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I love Wago Lever Nuts more than life itself.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

99cents said:


> I had a GC give me one of those wire nut thingies you put on a drill. I threw it away when he wasn't looking.


Yet I get hated.... Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

99cents said:


> I had a GC give me one of those wire nut thingies you put on a drill. I threw it away when he wasn't looking.


You guys need to ease up on the trigger. 
I don't use mine often because I'm not going to go get it. But if I'm splicing all day..it's in the chuck. Guess it's just a personnel preference. Side note.. I started using these as an apprentice 20 years ago. 

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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Yet I get hated.... Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!


I hate you because you hate Pam! 

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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

no love for these?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

zac said:


> I hate you because you hate Pam!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I am what I am.... A Martin fan! Lol


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

splatz said:


> no love for these?


I love the ratcheting one! But I actually use the reamer with one of these in its handle, it doesn't ratchet. Once my hands get tired I use this to help.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

splatz said:


> no love for these?


I had one but like prior posts didn't agree with it. I DON'T like how the wires are braided a yard out ! Makes it a hassle to trouble shoot. 

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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Damnit zac, I forgot that. Now I hate this too.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Damnit zac, I forgot that. Now I hate this too.


You're not a braider..that's one thing about the cobra (wire nutt bit).
You can braid the wire quite a bit if not on target. 


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I am so not a braider!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

No hate here. Rock on.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Bird dog said:


> It's been a while, but, are Wagos listed for #10s?


Most of them arent, the blue ideal 3 Ports take 10-14awg


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

TheLivingBubba said:


> I was speaking with another electrician the other day and he was telling me that he doesn't trust Wago's and they fail all the time. He even goes as far as to cut them out and replace with wire nuts when doing can lights. I have used Wago's on lighting with no failures.
> 
> I could see how they may fail on a back stabbed receptacle, but there are other issues there.
> 
> Have you seen a Wago fail?


We use them for nearly everything, we still keep red wire nuts around for some situations where a wago won't work.


I'm working on a hospital that was built over 10 years ago. Everything I've had to get into was done with wagos and I haven't seen any issues.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

But, but but...

I thought Wagos were only good for residential and not commercial/institutional work???

Like a #12 wire knows it's in a hospital and not Grandma's house...


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

They fail all the time, right up there with FPE and Zinsco. Just the other night 100 homes spontaneously burst into flames due to Wago's.

I've seen one fail that was properly terminated, but only one. I still prefer wire nuts, but I don't cut them out on cans and fixtures and they work nice on short wires!


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

Switched said:


> They fail all the time, right up there with FPE and Zinsco. Just the other night 100 homes spontaneously burst into flames due to Wago's.
> 
> I've seen one fail that was properly terminated, but only one. I still prefer wire nuts, but I don't cut them out on cans and fixtures and they work nice on short wires!


On short wires I use the http://www.cableorganizer.com/ideal...-1042&ef_id=VvXMOAAAAFyijjG-:20160615033953:s

The one that you have seen fail was it on a commonly used receptacle or ???


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

TheLivingBubba said:


> On short wires I use the http://www.cableorganizer.com/ideal...-1042&ef_id=VvXMOAAAAFyijjG-:20160615033953:s
> 
> The one that you have seen fail was it on a commonly used receptacle or ???


It was on a house that someone had gone through and re-deviced, HO said it had been done 6 months prior. It was unused behind a piece of furniture. It appeared to have been installed correctly and after checking others the EC had done, everything looked good. Just a failed product.


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## LuckyLuke (Jun 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I love Wago Lever Nuts more than life itself.


Same here, I am still waiting for my order of the new smaller version to come in. :thumbsup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

zac said:


> Try this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't put mine in the drill. I put it into my palm and hand turn it . Way easier on the hand and fingers than twisting wirenuts without using it. My problem with wago's is I don't have a problem with them other than in some cases it is hard to see if your wire is inserted all the way, and getting the last two wires in is kinda hard compared to #1 and #2. When I get my sample bag of lever' nuts delivered to Kam's statue, I think that problem will be solved for good.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I don't put mine in the drill. I put it into my palm and hand turn it . Way easier on the hand and fingers than twisting wirenuts without using it. My problem with wago's is I don't have a problem with them other than in some cases it is hard to see if your wire is inserted all the way, and getting the last two wires in is kinda hard compared to #1 and #2. When I get my sample bag of lever' nuts delivered to Kam's statue, I think that problem will be solved for good.


That's so far from your house though. You should have them delivered closer.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> That's so far from your house though. You should have them delivered closer.


Ok, we will settle on halfway. Put them down on the ground inside Diamond Head crater. Don't worry , it is extinct.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

cad99 said:


> Cheap house no budget gets wagos. I have money do it nice 3m wire nuts.never had a wago fail.
> 
> 
> Living the dream one nightmare at a time


Aren't wago about 10 times more than tans?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Aren't wago about 10 times more than tans?


labor


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Aren't wago about 10 times more than tans?


No, push-in Wago's have gotten cheaper and cheaper. Plus, you save the time on labor.


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## cad99 (Feb 19, 2012)

Labor again owner is sold on them. 


Living the dream one nightmare at a time








Plus I like the empties.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Ya gotta admit, they beat the old solder pots and friction tape method.


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

Bird dog said:


> It's been a while, but, are Wagos listed for #10s?


We use the orange and clear lever nuts, I want to say 221 series, and sadly they are not rated for use with #10. 

I do wish such a thing existed.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

KennyW said:


> We use the orange and clear lever nuts, I want to say 221 series, and sadly they are not rated for use with #10.
> 
> I do wish such a thing existed.


Yes sir. The newer ones are the 221 line. The older gray ones are the 222. 

People who use Lever Nuts are simply a higher class of people.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I've come to the conclusion that Wago's are garbage and I will not use them, and I'm usually the first in line to try a new product. There is no way a piece of spring steel will make a better connection than copper to copper in a wire nut. I think long term reliability is the Achilles heel of the push-in style connector.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I've come to the conclusion that Wago's are garbage and I will not use them, and I'm usually the first in line to try a new product. There is no way a piece of spring steel will make a better connection than copper to copper in a wire nut. I think long term reliability is the Achilles heel of the push-in style connector.


I'm sure you're right that the Wago doesn't make as good of contact as properly twisted conductors held tight by a Wirenut.

But it makes more than enough contact to pass the intended current. The Lever Nuts that I use are rated for 32A while I will only be using a max of 20A. That's good enough for me.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I'm sure you're right that the Wago doesn't make as good of contact as properly twisted conductors held tight by a Wirenut.
> 
> But it makes more than enough contact to pass the intended current. The Lever Nuts that I use are rated for 32A while I will only be using a max of 20A. That's good enough for me.


True, but I think we're talking apples and oranges. The lever nuts and push-ins are different. At least the lever nut has mechanical pressure on the splice at all times while the push-in can and likely will loosen up over time.


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Yes sir. The newer ones are the 221 line. The older gray ones are the 222.
> 
> People who use Lever Nuts are simply a higher class of people.


Agreed. They are the best. I can see failures with the push in one's for a couple reasons - 1 the connectors supplied in fixtures are not always genuine Wago. 2 the fixture wiring itself is often fine stranded and without ferrules this isn't a very good match for a push in. 

But lever nuts are bulletproof in my experience.


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

Remind me of backstabs.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

It has been my impression that most of the Wayo connection technology started out inside DIN rail terminal blocks.

So the stuff has been out a tad longer than you might think.

The move to ( screwless ) spring pressure connections was highlighted in catalogues so old I've thrown them out.

Since I never worked that end of the street -- I'll defer to the PLC// robotics experts on the specifics.

Suffice it to say, that Wagos have taken the European market over.

I'm now seeing them (or clones) included in countless pre-fab assemblies offered by American manufacturers.

So, _confidence_ is high. :thumbsup:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Guess who used a wago today!?


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

I prefer lever nuts.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> I've come to the conclusion that Wago's are garbage and I will not use them, and I'm usually the first in line to try a new product. There is no way a piece of spring steel will make a better connection than copper to copper in a wire nut. I think long term reliability is the Achilles heel of the push-in style connector.



Wire nuts only got a bad rap because some can't make a good splice.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I couldn't do a butt splice to save my life.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Only the cheap chi crap that came in cans. NSI's, Wagos and Ideals never had an issue.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

AcidTrip said:


> Wire nuts only got a bad rap because some can't make a good splice.


Doesn't the human element normally make or break any mechanical install ?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I use these crimped with klein crimping pliers when wires are too short in boxes or panels. My old man is solidly in the anti-wago camp so I dont expect to be using them anytime soon.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> I use these crimped with klein crimping pliers when wires are too short in boxes or panels. My old man is solidly in the anti-wago camp so I dont expect to be using them anytime soon.


I don't like crimps on solid wire, especially when it's in the back of a box and hard to get to.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Western union splice*



joebanana said:


> Ya gotta admit, they beat the old solder pots and friction tape method.


I remember back in school having to learn to make a western union splice with solid wire and soldering it with a solder pot. Teacher use to pull on them first to see if it was wrapped correctly, he also said that he should be able to hang from our wirenut connections. Bet you can't hang on a Wago.


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## nbb (Jul 12, 2014)

Going_Commando said:


> I use these crimped with klein crimping pliers when wires are too short in boxes or panels. My old man is solidly in the anti-wago camp so I dont expect to be using them anytime soon.


Sorry, off-topic, but your post has itching to ask a question I brought to myself a while ago. I have never complained about a 3M product, that was not my own doing, using it outside of the specs it was designed for. I am wondering if this is a universal thing or if all material has a bad batch here and there.

Don't even get me started on the difference of 33+ tape versus the cheap crap. 

I know Wago, Ideal, Panduit, and NSi also make very good consumables, but it just seems like 3M is top notch all the time.


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

3M is solid wagos just remind me of backstabs to much.


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