# Hair salon tools burning out



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Are you checking voltages with loads on the circuits? If not you need to do so, and you need to check voltage on a circuit on the opposite leg as well as the loaded circuit.
This may be a neutral issue with the service or with a multi-wire branch circuit.


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## mike9666 (Jul 28, 2015)

could it be an issue of too small of a service? there are multiple sub panels installed. I never did look to see what size the service is.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Voltage drops, current rises, current rises, tools burn up. Check voltage and current at outlet while tools are in use.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Similar thread below,

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f30/hair-dryers-56412/


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

drsparky said:


> Voltage drops, current rises, current rises, tools burn up. Check voltage and current at outlet while tools are in use.


Not with things like mentioned in the original post...they are mostly resistance heating loads. Lower voltage = less current and less heat.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> This may be a neutral issue with the service or with a multi-wire branch circuit.


This was my first thought as well.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

That and what was mentioned here about a higher voltage but, I suspect the users would quickly spot a higher heat than expected problem.

Is it possible they are using non professional household duty cycle tools?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Electric heating tools burn out. They don't last forever. When one financially depressed hairdresser raises a financially driven stink "I'm sick of buying new blow driers, etc" then all the other airheads jump on board with the idea that the problem is the building's electrical system, therefore the shop owner's fault.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

I to think that it is a lot of what's been said. It seems obvious the answer is on each label of the hair blower. The math can be done and combined with a quick circuit layout will all be understood.

Doesn't Canada Code also have a limit on continual circuit amperage loading?

Like;
12 Amps on 15 Amp circuit and 
16 Amps on 20 Amp circuit ?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

CADPoint said:


> I to think that it is a lot of what's been said. It seems obvious the answer is on each label of the hair blower. The math can be done and combined with a quick circuit layout will all be understood.
> 
> Doesn't Canada Code also have a limit on continual circuit amperage loading?
> 
> ...


Yep, I would think that 62-116(3) would apply to the service conductors and for the load calculations at 100% demand as well


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## mike9666 (Jul 28, 2015)

IslandGuy said:


> Electric heating tools burn out. They don't last forever. When one financially depressed hairdresser raises a financially driven stink "I'm sick of buying new blow driers, etc" then all the other airheads jump on board with the idea that the problem is the building's electrical system, therefore the shop owner's fault.


Yes this was my thoughts as well. But they all buy expensive high quality tools and it does seem to be happening too often and at different stations.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Someone posted a pic of a decora style receptacle but with a European 240 volt configuration. Have them buy 240v hair driers meant for European markets, and install those receptacles fed with 208v.

They'll never burn out a hairdrier again.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Not with things like mentioned in the original post...they are mostly resistance heating loads. Lower voltage = less current and less heat.


Ohms law still applies. a 60 Watt hair thingy draws .5 amps at 120 volts
.6 amps at 90 volts
1 amp at 60 volts
The resistance of the hair thingy doesn't change, and voltage drops current will rise.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

drsparky said:


> Ohms law still applies. a 60 Watt hair thingy draws .5 amps at 120 volts
> .6 amps at 90 volts
> 1 amp at 60 volts
> The resistance of the hair thingy doesn't change, and voltage drops current will rise.


You're doing your calculations with watts, rather than resistance.

If you had used resistance you'd have:

.5 amps at 120 volts 60w
.375 amps at 90 volts 33.75w
.25 amp at 60 volts 15w

Same principle as a water heater element having a lower given wattage at 208v.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

drsparky said:


> ...
> The resistance of the hair thingy doesn't change, and voltage drops current will rise.


and I always thought that I=E/R....don't see how I can go up when E goes down


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## Sparkchaser1 (May 17, 2015)

Cow said:


> You're doing your calculations with watts, rather than resistance.
> 
> If you had used resistance you'd have:
> 
> ...


Power is measured in watts. P= IxE.. or I=E2/R. Current and voltage are inversely proportional. A 60 watt whatever will try to draw 60 watts no matter what, so if the voltage goes down, the current will go up.:whistling2:


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## Sparkchaser1 (May 17, 2015)

and that's one reason why things burn up.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Sparkchaser1 said:


> Power is measured in watts. P= IxE.. or I=E2/R. Current and voltage are inversely proportional. A 60 watt whatever will try to draw 60 watts no matter what, so if the voltage goes down, the current will go up.:whistling2:


No, a 60 watt whatever will not always try to draw 60 watts. 

A resistance heater is one example of a "whatever" that will only draw its rated voltage when supplied at its rated current. It will produce less watts and draw a lower current at a lower voltage, and will produce more watts and draw more current at a higher voltage.


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## Sparkchaser1 (May 17, 2015)

I'll admit you're right about resistive loads...however...a blow dryer has an inductive load also, the fan, to which P=IxE still applies.


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## Sparkchaser1 (May 17, 2015)

And I=E/R, not


> E2/R


 like I mistakenly said.[


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Sparkchaser1 said:


> I'll admit you're right about resistive loads...however...a blow dryer has an inductive load also, the fan, to which P=IxE still applies.


A very very small portion of the load will be the motor load and will not make the total blow dyer current go up when the voltage drops.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Unless these tools are not professional grade its a miracle if they last 2 weeks.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> A very very small portion of the load will be the motor load and will not make the total blow dyer current go up when the voltage drops.


Yes, in fact most of the little blowers in things like hand held hair dryers are now using little permanent magnet DC motors, so they act more like a resistive load as well; when you reduced the voltage they just slow down. 

I'd be thinking more along the lines of a loose neutral or a poorly designed MWBC setup as mentioned already.


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## Hanzell85 (Dec 11, 2012)

Agree with JRaef. Load imbalances could cause higher voltage that would burn out those tools


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Do these problem devices say "made in China" on them? Are they UL labeled? I've noticed that things made in China, also have warning disclaimers on the packaging saying, "wash hands after use". (I assume because of the high lead content)


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