# Residential code q?



## MAKALUA09 (Mar 29, 2009)

Is there any violation for using a 100a subpanel as a 60a subpanel? I've looked in the 2008 and have yet to find anything? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Nope.


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

not that I Know of.


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## MAKALUA09 (Mar 29, 2009)

thanks guys!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

What is the connected load? As long as it isn't over 60a then there is no problem.


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## MAKALUA09 (Mar 29, 2009)

william1978 said:


> What is the connected load? As long as it isn't over 60a then there is no problem.


 

Im gonna be feeding the kitchen with this subpanel. I'm gonna be putting a 60a breaker on it so i'm hoping the inspector doesnt say " what if the HO decides to add more circuits because the panel would have more room".

My thing is if its being protected by a 60a breaker the wire should be protected no matter how much it draws. If everything were to be on at the same time then Im assuming the breaker would do its job.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

The inspector is there to inspect not suspect.


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## MAKALUA09 (Mar 29, 2009)

william1978 said:


> The inspector is there to inspect not suspect.


 

guess im just overthinking it.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MAKALUA09 said:


> guess im just overthinking it.


 No. Had a inspector tell me once that he doesn't care what they plan on doing latter on he only wanted to look at what was installed at this point.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> The inspector is there to inspect not suspect.


Or expect.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Or expect.


 I would like fries with that please.:whistling2:


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## MAKALUA09 (Mar 29, 2009)

I appreciate it guys! Have a good one


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I would like fries with that please.:whistling2:


Sorry pal, we're cleaning the grease fryer right now. We don't have any fries today so how about picking something else?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*100 amp sub-panel*

I am just throwing this out there; I have not done residential in a long time. Let's say the kitchen would now, or in the future have a range with a self cleaning oven. HIGH draw. Let's say that it is thanksgiving and the oven, and all of the surface burners are in use. Now add a microwave and a couple of warming trays and a crockpot ,or two. That is the way it is here on T-day. What would be the current draw? And since it would be on presumably, more than two hours. What size sub panel should it be?
What size feeder, as well?


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## MAKALUA09 (Mar 29, 2009)

Lmao 480


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I am just throwing this out there; I have not done residential in a long time. Let's say the kitchen would now, or in the future have a range with a self cleaning oven. HIGH draw. Let's say that it is thanksgiving and the oven, and all of the surface burners are in use. Now add a microwave and a couple of warming trays and a crockpot ,or two. That is the way it is here on T-day. What would be the current draw? And since it would be on presumably, more than two hours. What size sub panel should it be?
> What size feeder, as well?


That would be the sole responsibility of the person (hopefully a qualified electrician) to determine at the time.

There's just no way you can plan for the future. If you wanted to size the panel for a future range, why not size it just in case someone wants to add a hot tub outside? And a whirlypool in the master bath? And then stick a double-broiling oven next to the range? And a Viking fridge & freezer pair?..................


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

480sparky said:


> That would be the sole responsibility of the person (hopefully a qualified electrician) to determine at the time.
> 
> There's just no way you can plan for the future. If you wanted to size the panel for a future range, why not size it just in case someone wants to add a hot tub outside? And a whirlypool in the master bath? And then stick a double-broiling oven next to the range? And a Viking fridge & freezer pair?..................


Yeah, just install a 400 amp subpanel.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

What if the guy wants an arc welder installed on the countertop instead of a microwave?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> What if the guy wants an arc welder installed on the countertop instead of a microwave?


:laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MAKALUA09 said:


> I appreciate it guys! Have a good one


 You welcome, You too.:thumbsup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> What if the guy wants an arc welder installed on the countertop instead of a microwave?


 :laughing:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

william1978 said:


> :laughing:


Uh, I already said that.....and did I mention, WELCOME TO THE FORUM.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> :laughing:





william1978 said:


> :laughing:





NolaTigaBait said:


> Uh, I already said that.....and did I mention, WELCOME TO THE FORUM.


 :laughing: Welcome to the forum.:whistling2:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

So you agree?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> So you agree?


 Yes I agree WELCOME TO THE FORUM.:laughing:


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## MAKALUA09 (Mar 29, 2009)

Totally. I couldn't find anything and it makes perfect sense. Appreciate it






NolaTigaBait said:


> So you agree?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*100 amp sub-panel*



480sparky said:


> That would be the sole responsibility of the person (hopefully a qualified electrician) to determine at the time.
> 
> There's just no way you can plan for the future. If you wanted to size the panel for a future range, why not size it just in case someone wants to add a hot tub outside? And a whirlypool in the master bath? And then stick a double-broiling oven next to the range? And a Viking fridge & freezer pair?..................


My bad, I just assumed since it was a kitchen it would have a range. Why I said future...I don't know. It is just that I spell so well I tend to use a lot of words.
And, I was hoping for someone to use the term "demand factor" in sizing the feeders. Just an honest question.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> . It is just that I spell so well I tend to use a lot of words.


 Are you Peter D or steelersman?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Sorry pal, we're cleaning the grease fryer right now. We don't have any fries today so how about picking something else?


 I still want some fries with that.:whistling2:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

MAKALUA09 said:


> Lmao 480


 480 is the man with the plan...and the original RAT.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

william1978 said:


> Yes I agree WELCOME TO THE FORUM.:laughing:


 Welcome to hell is more like it, and some us like it here. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> 480 is the man with the plan...and the original RAT.


And I plan on heading back to the huge mousetrap with all the cheese in it.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I am just throwing this out there; I have not done residential in a long time. Let's say the kitchen would now, or in the future have a range with a self cleaning oven. HIGH draw. Let's say that it is thanksgiving and the oven, and all of the surface burners are in use. Now add a microwave and a couple of warming trays and a crockpot ,or two. That is the way it is here on T-day. What would be the current draw? And since it would be on presumably, more than two hours. What size sub panel should it be?
> What size feeder, as well?


What could possibly take 2 hours to cook on high on all 2 burners?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> What could possibly take 2 hours to cook on high on all 2 burners?


 Where the heck ahve YOU been, LGLS?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> What could possibly take 2 hours to cook on high on all 2 burners?


Why should we care?

Then again, what's so special about two hours?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> What could possibly take 2 hours to cook on high on all 2 burners?


 Agreed, in order to compensate for everything on at once we'd be installing commercial services in 1500' homes.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> what's so special about two hours?


 I think that's the time of the slow death from getting caught in a RAT trap going after all that tasty cheese.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

MAKALUA09 said:


> Totally. I couldn't find anything and it makes perfect sense. Appreciate it


Where did you look? :whistling2:

Article 408 - Switchboard and Panelboards

408.36 Overcurrent Protection

Welcome to the forum.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Resi code*



LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> What could possibly take 2 hours to cook on high on all 2 burners?


The turkey and pies...in the oven, of course.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*residential code*



480sparky said:


> Why should we care?
> 
> Then again, what's so special about two hours?


I may be wrong, but it used to be that if a load is run continuously for two or more hours you have to derate to 80%.TREATED AS A CONTINUOUS LOAD, Has that changed? Just an honest question.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I may be wrong, but it used to be that if a load is run continuously for two or more hours you have to derate to 80%.TREATED AS A CONTINUOUS LOAD, Has that changed? Just an honest question.


 
Three hours. Definition of *Continuous Load*.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Residential code*



480sparky said:


> Three hours. Definition of *Continuous Load*.


If that is true, I respectfully STAND CORRECTED....But what about two turkeys.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

What the hell are you talking about?


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## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> What the hell are you talking about?


He's a troll.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Residential code*



NolaTigaBait said:


> What the hell are you talking about?


Sorry, my bad. I didn't use a smiley face to show that I was kind of kidding.I just figured maybe two turkeys would take THREE HOURS.Again,sorry.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

EDM said:


> He's a troll.


Who?


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## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Who?


Riveter.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*resi code*



EDM said:


> Riveter.


Come on EDM; You have not got the corner on the humor market. I raz, as I am razzed, but I still respect all, including yourself. This a pretty good forum but our relationship is still budding.Take it easy.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> What if the guy wants an arc welder installed on the countertop instead of a microwave?


Im not sure why, but that struck me a very funny. I can almost hear the tone in that sentence.:thumbup:

~Matt


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> Where the heck ahve YOU been, LGLS?


Busy.
Bought and renovated TWO houses.
Built the shed of DEATH at my house - try that on a HILL on Long Island's NORTH SHORE.
Bought a bike and have been TRYING to ride as much as possible.
Adopted a blind puppy - trying to train it.
Some stuff at work, now I actually have to be there sometimes... :whistling2::laughing: fkn pricks... 

So... "Contractor talk" just had to take a back seat.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

EDM said:


> Riveter.


He's not a troll.


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> What if the guy wants an arc welder installed on the countertop instead of a microwave?


or a plasma cutter that's what you need for some of my wifes cooking:no:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

sparky105 said:


> or a plasma cutter that's what you need for some of my wifes cooking:no:


 :laughing: Thats cold.:laughing:


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

just wondering seeing as I don't do alot of res stuff maybe you could enlighten me 
Y even use the little pnl it's not like breaker pnls are expensive just put in a new main pnl with more slots
I have never understood this theory of stacking sub pnls 
Again it is just the way my head works.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparky105 said:


> just wondering seeing as I don't do alot of res stuff maybe you could enlighten me
> Y even use the little pnl it's not like breaker pnls are expensive just put in a new main pnl with more slots
> I have never understood this theory of stacking sub pnls
> Again it is just the way my head works.


price is king in many mrkts it's tuff to compete when theres so many others out there in a race 2 the bttm being able 2 take 20 or 30 bcks off each job can get attractive 2 many and its not just pnls evrythng gets slashed devices lights brkrs conduit yea it wld b nice to have the biggest and best of evrythng but that's not how it works when some1 else is footing the bill


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

480sparky said:


> price is king in many mrkts it's tuff to compete when theres so many others out there in a race 2 the bttm being able 2 take 20 or 30 bcks off each job can get attractive 2 many and its not just pnls evrythng gets slashed devices lights brkrs conduit yea it wld b nice to have the biggest and best of evrythng but that's not how it works when some1 else is footing the bill


 thanks I kind of figured it was about the $ But I've seen some places lately that have 4 or 5 sub pnls and I just shake my head they must have cost more in the long run maybe not at the time of install. mabe we need a code change.


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