# MC install instructions



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Who has a link to the install instructions for South Wire MC. Just failed an inspection because I didn't use a Roto Strip.:blink:


How would the inspector know what you used if the end of the MC is inside the fitting.. :blink::blink:


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

B4T said:


> How would the inspector know what you used if the end of the MC is inside the fitting.. :blink::blink:



He asked me.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Try this

http://www.southwire.com/documents/MC_InstallGuide.pdf


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Page 9 of the pdf




> Method 1: lengthwise cut
> Cut lengthwise along the interlocked armor, being careful not to cut into the insulated
> conductors. If the cut is too shallow to completely separate the segments, you can insert
> a small screwdriver into the cut to break them free.
> ...


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I would really let the inspector and his immediate supervisor have it verbally. If he's failing an inspection for something like that he's probably failing guys for other bull**** reasons. I once had an Anaheim inspector fail me because I used a plastic bushing instead of the bonding bushing in a residential sub panel feed.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> I would really let the inspector and his immediate supervisor have it verbally. If he's failing an inspection for something like that he's probably failing guys for other bull**** reasons. I once had an Anaheim inspector fail me because I used a plastic bushing instead of the bonding bushing in a residential sub panel feed.


Sometimes these inspectors intentions are good. Someone may have told him that mc has to be cut with the tool. Show them they are wrong and most will back down.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Thanks Dennis but that link is for Mega #6 and larger, using #12 here.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Thanks Dennis but that link is for Mega #6 and larger, using #12 here.


Why would it matter. Try this http://www.southwire.com/documents/MCAP_BrochureNEW.pdf



> • Cut cable with rotary cutter
> designed for use with interlocked
> armor or other suitable means
> and remove armor


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You can have the inspector call 

Product Support
1-800-444-1700 
ext. 5055


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## sparky402 (Oct 15, 2013)

I once got a red tag for using nolox in my meter even though ive used it everytime before.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris Kennedy said:


> He asked me.


I am the same way Chris, if an inspector asks me a direct question I answer honestly.

Sorry I don't have a link for what you are looking for.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> He asked me.


Did you ask for a code reference when he shot down your stripping method??


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Who has a link to the install instructions for South Wire MC. Just failed an inspection because I didn't use a Roto Strip.:blink:


Ok,
You gotta tell us what city it was.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

At Miami International Airport.


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

So what does he expect you to do? Rewire everything?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Ultrafault said:


> So what does he expect you to do? Rewire everything?


Of course he does... everybody knows that if the jacket of MC cable isn't removed properly the ampacity of the conductors have to be derated by 50%.

Pete


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

*Update*

Got re-inspection today. Handed the guy 2 pages of install instructions from Southwire. As he was reading them he says "This is good."

Also handed him NEMA bulletin 90 (at first inspection he told me I needed to use anti-shorts with MC, I resolved that at the time) and after he read that said "This is really good! Can I take this and show it to my Supervisor?" 

Go figure.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Did you ask him what code reference he was referring to when he questioned you about your installation method for MC cable??


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Did you ask him what code reference he was referring to when he questioned you about your installation method for MC cable??


It would be 110.3(B).


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

BBQ said:


> It would be 110.3(B).


Exactly, called the chief the next morning ane was told I needed to use a roto strip as per 110.3(B). How do you enforce 100.3(B) if you don't have a clue what the install instructions say? Well the BD has them now.

Just mind boggling this could happen at a BD the size of Miami Dades, and at an internation airport???:blink:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Why wouldn't you use a roto split?


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Why wouldn't you use a roto split?


Leaves a nasty sharp edge. I tried one on MC yesterday and my question would be;

Why would anyone use this?

I do use one on AC and MC-HCF but ArmorLite is just too thin.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Why wouldn't you use a roto split?


I did a small MC job last week with a pair of *****, but it was only because I had lent my MC cutters to my brother in law.

It was a real aggravation, Id HATE to do a large MC job without cutters.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Got re-inspection today. Handed the guy 2 pages of install instructions from Southwire. As he was reading them he says "This is good."
> 
> Also handed him NEMA bulletin 90 (at first inspection he told me I needed to use anti-shorts with MC, I resolved that at the time) and after he read that said "This is really good! Can I take this and show it to my Supervisor?"
> 
> Go figure.


My Jman still insists that you must use an anti short with MC as well as my supervisor.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I think this is a great site for great information.
Sometimes I wish the Mods would get a little sticker to weed out the hacks and DIYers.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

pudge565 said:


> My Jman still insists that you must use an anti short with MC as well as my supervisor.


Morons, No need unless you are not using a decent MC connector


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

pudge565 said:


> My Jman still insists that you must use an anti short with MC as well as my supervisor.


He is an idiot.
If the fittings have it built in, it makes it hard to use.
He might just be an old BX guy that can't get his head into modern installation procedures.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Got re-inspection today. Handed the guy 2 pages of install instructions from Southwire. As he was reading them he says "This is good."
> 
> Also handed him NEMA bulletin 90 (at first inspection he told me I needed to use anti-shorts with MC, I resolved that at the time) and after he read that said "This is really good! Can I take this and show it to my Supervisor?"
> 
> Go figure.


I think they are in the habit of expecting someone to hand them an envelope with some paper in it to pass.


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

jrannis said:


> I think they are in the habit of expecting someone to hand them an envelope with some paper in it to pass.


Does that really happen?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Ultrafault said:


> Does that really happen?


Not at the field level.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I don't use much mc but I have always used a hacksaw. I found the rotozip to be slower for me.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Why wouldn't you use a roto split?


Yup. I always use a rotosplit when I am cutting MC sheath for a connector. If it is for fishing, then I usually just use *****, since they are a bit faster, and the MC will get a clean strip with a rotosplit when I bring it through the box opening.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Leaves a nasty sharp edge. I tried one on MC yesterday and my question would be;
> 
> Why would anyone use this?
> 
> I do use one on AC and MC-HCF but ArmorLite is just too thin.


nothing is faster or easier than using a Roto-split on MC or AC cable.....

That sharp edge you mentioned happens no matter what you use.. I don't see a problem with it...:blink::blink:

You set it and forget it... :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> nothing is faster or easier than using a Roto-split on MC or AC cable.....


And here we go again, B4T telling very experienced electrcians that his way is the only way.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

B4T said:


> nothing is faster or easier than using a Roto-split on MC or AC cable:


Except a guy who's been doing it with a pair of ***** for ten years


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

jrannis said:


> I think they are in the habit of expecting someone to hand them an envelope with some paper in it to pass.


I'm married. I get $20 a week allowance. Probably would have made things worse if I handed him $4.28.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> And here we go again, B4T telling very experienced electrcians that his way is the only way.


I'm willing to put money on the table to prove my point.. are you that sure of yourself..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I'm willing to put money on the table to prove my point.. are you that sure of yourself..


:sleep1::sleep1:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> :sleep1::sleep1:


Figures...:no::no:... you like running your mouth and when challenged.. you run away like a scared little girl... :no:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> Figures...:no::no:... you like running your mouth and when challenged.. you run away like a scared little girl... :no:


Home Depot snow storm parking lot fight!!! Yay! Who's got the UHaul?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> nothing is faster or easier than using a Roto-split on MC or AC cable.....





BBQ said:


> And here we go again, B4T telling very experienced electrcians that his way is the only way.





B4T said:


> I'm willing to put money on the table to prove my point.. are you that sure of yourself..





BBQ said:


> :sleep1::sleep1:





B4T said:


> Figures...:no:... you like running your mouth and when challenged.. you run away like a scared little girl... :no:



Many people can go faster with these











Just because you cannot does not mean it is not so. And there is no reason at all for the name calling.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> Figures...:no::no:... you like running your mouth and when challenged.. you run away like a scared little girl... :no:


Oh look, there you go name calling again. That's just a cheap shot.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

B4T said:


> Figures...:no::no:... you like running your mouth and when challenged.. you run away like a scared little girl... :no:


I thought you stopped name calling you clown.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Troll proof


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Should have just said oh yeah we used rotosplits.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ and I have an "understanding".. I tell him his faults and he agrees with me.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:

He is the ONLY ONE I have this arrangement with.. but nice try by some of you to make more than what it is.. :no::no::no:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

B4T said:


> BBQ and I have an "understanding".. I tell him his faults and he agrees with me.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing: He is the ONLY ONE I have this arrangement with.. but nice try by some of you to make more than what it is.. :no::no::no:


You and BBQ are like twins. He's Arnold and your Danny.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I will utterly destroy anyone with my rotosplits. I'll be so far ahead that it won't even be a competition.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

How do you guys use a hacksaw?

It seems like it would be awkward to hold.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Awg-Dawg said:


> How do you guys use a hacksaw?
> 
> It seems like it would be awkward to hold.


I am very good using a hack saw for it because that was how I was first trained way back in 1980. 

I once raced a guy with a roto spilit and beat him, but that was an odd set up.

We each had about 25 pre-cut fixture whips laying on the floor and had to strip each end. Doing it that way allowed me to step on the MC to hold it tight and very still.

Under normal circumstances a i think roto spit is faster than a hack saw and you are much less likely to run the saw blade over the back of your thumb.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I am very good using a hack saw for it because that was how I was first trained way back in 1980.


 
It must be an east coast thing, Ive never heard of anyone doing it here.

If Im ever in Mass, I should be able to pick out an electrician, 

they will be the guys with hacked up thumbs.:laughing:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I am very good using a hack saw for it because that was how I was first trained way back in 1980.


Also, I don't remember seeing MC cable in this area till the late 80s.

Im sure it was around, I just never saw it used until then.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I am very good using a hack saw for it because that was how I was first trained way back in 1980.
> 
> I once raced a guy with a roto spilit and beat him, but that was an odd set up.
> 
> ...


It takes making (3) circles with a Roto-split handle to cut through the AL armor on MC or AC cable...

I just can't see how any other tool could do the job as fast and I even watched Union electricians doing a Macy's reno... these guys were S L O W using those side cutters...


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## Haxwoper (Dec 13, 2013)

B4T said:


> It takes making (3) circles with a Roto-split handle to cut through the AL armor on MC or AC cable...
> 
> I just can't see how any other tool could do the job as fast and I even watched Union electricians doing a Macy's reno... these guys were S L O W using those side cutters...


No one is faster that a novice with a Rotosplit.

It just never happens.

The old guys with their hacksaw, snips, or BX shears always talk tough, but when it's time to race the 2nd year apprentice with a Rotosplit beats every other method no matter who is doing it and how much experience they have.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Haxwoper said:


> No one is faster that a novice with a Rotosplit.
> 
> It just never happens.
> 
> The old guys with their hacksaw, snips, or BX shears always talk tough, but when it's time to race the 2nd year apprentice with a Rotosplit beats every other method no matter who is doing it and how much experience they have.


*OMG... WE AGREE*..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Awg-Dawg said:


> they will be the guys with hacked up thumbs.:laughing:


:laughing:


I got mine real good once, down to the bone. But that teaches me not to do it again. :laughing:

Most electricians around here use splits or *****.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Hax... good luck.. I am done with you.. :no::no:





B4T said:


> Figures...:no:... you like running your mouth and when challenged.. you run away like a scared little girl... :no:



:whistling2:


:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> :laughing:
> 
> 
> I got mine real good once, down to the bone. But that teaches me not to do it again. :laughing:
> ...


MC and AC is easy now that they switched over to AL armor... 

It must of been a bitch cutting the steel armor when that was the only game in town...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> MC and AC is easy now that they switched over to AL armor...


We can get it in steel or AL and different thicknesses. It depends on job specs. 



> It must of been a bitch cutting the steel armor when that was the only game in town...


Yes, for sure and if dealing with steel MC I would rather use roto splits. 

It is good to know how to do it with a hack saw though because I have not seen roto splits for very large MC. Say 4/0 etc. or when you need to shorten a flex with wires already in it.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> One last thing... this forum was a much better place when you decided to stay away...


It would be even better if you decided to go away.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Should have just said oh yeah we used rotosplits.


I'm an obvious lair. Never really got the hang of that. Just got one of those faces that you can tell.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I'm an obvious lair. Never really got the hang of that. Just got one of those faces that you can tell.


:laughing:

Same here, I have no poker face at all.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Come on guys enough with the cheap shots-- let it go please


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Come on guys enough with the cheap shots--


OK, then I'll have a shot of Templeton Rye please.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Do they make a rotor split for 3c-500's?


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

sparky970 said:


> Do they make a rotor split for 3c-500's?


 
This PDF shows a rotary cutter.

I don't know if it is a tool especially made for it tho.

http://www.southwire.com/documents/MC_InstallGuide.pdf


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

The stuff in the Southwire PDF looks just like powered strippers Seatek makes.


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## fp.unit (Dec 18, 2012)

I've never seen a roto split in action, I was taught once with a hacksaw in pre-trade school then on the job everyone I've seen uses *****

figure out where your cut is, bend/crack at that point, with only a handful of practice (few weeks maybe) you can get very accurate and land the crack on the ring you want. then twist, snip, twist off. it's really pretty fast. at my company we do pop anti shorts in everything because of the fact all use ***** so that might slow it down a bit (hunting for the tiny buggers) but we buy them by the case.

I've heard mc in America is a little different then Canada maybe that has something to do with it. I might try roto splits one day but even with less then a year on the job I find crack, snip, twist is so fast. 

Also with a hacksaw, sometimes like today I'm up in a finished cramped t-bar ceiling at a weird angle, would not be fun cutting in situations like that.


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## mark35 (Mar 24, 2009)

Up on a ladder I'm using a roto-split (Greenlee's version) on the ground I'm using a hacksaw. By the way, I would never challenge BBQ to anything related to electrical work :thumbsup:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Haxwoper said:


> No one is faster that a novice with a Rotosplit.
> 
> It just never happens.
> 
> The old guys with their hacksaw, snips, or BX shears always talk tough, but when it's time to race the 2nd year apprentice with a Rotosplit beats every other method no matter who is doing it and how much experience they have.


Plus they don't leave that freaking sharp tail that shorts out in five years or so. The rotosplit if foolproof.


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## robmac85 (Nov 20, 2013)

When I first started I used a roto, then it stepped up to those klein snips and now for the past 10 years I've just been doing the ol' crack and snip with the *****. I actually had some ancient BX the other day and with that stuff if you crackand twist that you know the wires get all gnared up, so I had to go back to the trusty hacksaw for that job since I havent seen my rotos in years. I've seen guys wreck the wire trying to snip it with *****, I dont get it. I know I can smoke anyone using a splitter!


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

.......


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## TheChosenOne (Jan 20, 2014)

the rotosplits are much faster, they just don't fit in the tool pouch very well...


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

Trade school showed us the hacksaw method, I was also shown the bend and snip method, I took a rotosplit to a job when I was an apprentice and got laughed at, I always worried that the bend and snip may score the insulation so I was shown the twist and snip, about as fast as the rotosplit and does not run the risk of scoring the insulation.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

This thread sounds a lot like the offset bender gizmo thread.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

My grandfather taught me to cut AC with a hacksaw and while I am very very fast with a hacksaw on MC I am much faster and safer with a rotosplit - plus the tool fits in my pouch's hammer loop.

I still do teach apprentices how to do it with a hacksaw - it helps them with the larger cables that are becoming more and more common, and because hacksaws are on the required tool list and rotosplits are not. If the contractor does not supply the better tool, they best know how to do it with what they already carry.


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## Troyboy (Jan 21, 2014)

What is mc ? I've never heard of it. I use side cutters or hacksaw. Wth is a rotosplit? Ahh did some research. Mc looks just like teck without the jacket. And I have never seen a rotosplit. All the teck I use comes with connectors that give instruction to cut it with a hacksaw


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

eejack said:


> My grandfather taught me to cut AC with a hacksaw and while I am very very fast with a hacksaw on MC I am much faster and safer with a rotosplit - plus the tool fits in my pouch's hammer loop.
> 
> I still do teach apprentices how to do it with a hacksaw - it helps them with the larger cables that are becoming more and more common, and because hacksaws are on the required tool list and rotosplits are not. If the contractor does not supply the better tool, they best know how to do it with what they already carry.


This is actually one of your better posts. Here is my problem, if a rotosplit is not on the "required" tool list would you really have your guys use a hacksaw and take 6 times as long? Why would a contractor either not put that on the list or you not tell you guys to go get one or grab a broom?


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

sbrn33 said:


> This is actually one of your better posts. Here is my problem, if a rotosplit is not on the "required" tool list would you really have your guys use a hacksaw and take 6 times as long? Why would a contractor either not put that on the list or you not tell you guys to go get one or grab a broom?


Union tool list. If it's not on the list its up to the contractor to supply it, and technically one could get in trouble for carrying a tool not on the tool list.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

freeagnt54 said:


> Union tool list. If it's not on the list its up to the contractor to supply it, and technically one could get in trouble for carrying a tool not on the tool list.




I Hate Roto Splits and i like carrying my favorite tools ... List or No List .






Pete


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

Haxwoper said:


> No one is faster that a novice with a Rotosplit.
> 
> It just never happens.
> 
> The old guys with their hacksaw, snips, or BX shears always talk tough, but when it's time to race the 2nd year apprentice with a Rotosplit beats every other method no matter who is doing it and how much experience they have.


I'm an apprentice and I will take you up on that, When I do mc I like to bend it until it breaks, pull back a few inches, push it back some, then there is a nice single ridge that has popped up that I cut with ***** or tin snips. trim off a sharp point if there is one, trim the plastic in same manner and slide off the trash. done. I have used the roto plenty, and Its faster doing it without. never had a nick in the conductors etc.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> Plus they don't leave that freaking sharp tail that shorts out in five years or so. The rotosplit if foolproof.


all the roto's ive used leave a point that u should trim off also.:whistling2:


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