# Future of lighting controls



## integrator (Dec 17, 2019)

Good day


We are moving towards smart lighting and have read up on several products. It seems that wireless ZigBee and DALI will be the future of smart connected lighting - Any thoughts?


We have some nLight, but don't like the fact you need to run cat5 cable to each device and require nLight enable devices. It seems once you have this system in, you're locked into this product.


Thanks


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Welcome to ET
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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

integrator said:


> We have some nLight, but don't like the fact you need to run cat5 cable to each device and require nLight enable devices. It seems once you have this system in, you're locked into this product.


I mean, it's like that with anything though. 

Lutron Caseta? Only works with their hub/system (of course you can control it from other apps and whatnot but I will not get into that)
Control 4? Same thing. 
Radio RA2? Same thing.

I'm gonna stick with my old fashioned wiring. No PoE lighting in my home. I might do one room, but not the whole place.

Thing is, if you wire everything with cat5e or cat6 (or any other category cable) you can't easily go with line voltage lighting (at least not legally...). Now, lights that have built in network interface, sure, I would use those. Line voltage power supply and a network jack on each light (I'm thinking RGBAW lights now, similar to DJ lighting to create any color you want. Heck, throw in black light function as well and you got a badass lighting setup).

Well now I want to make RGBAW lights like this.. 

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Agree with Kevin ^ They are all proprietory, and you have limitations after wiring is completed, and drywall goes up


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

I suspect this will change over time. Hopefully, eventually, everything will communicate on some standard (like computer equipment on TCP/IP). Until then I'll install whatever a customer requests. I won't recommend anything, however.


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

Lutron Caseta has been easy to install and the customers find the App intuitive and easy to use. 
1. It's compatible with Nest Thermostat. When the Nest is in Away mode, Caseta will turn on lights randomly from 6-9pm, making it look like someone is home.
2. It's compatible with Amazon Alexa and Goggle Home. You can turn on lights and Scenes by voice
3. It works with Ring DoorBell. When the Ring detects motion or when the door button is pushed, lights can turn on, stay on for as long as you like and then turn off.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

People have been saying this or that is the future of smart lighting controls for at least 20 years. I have a number of customers with a nightmare because the old system (early 2000's) they installed is now impossible to maintain, the company that seemed like the leader / future at the time is now circling the bowl. 

They are currently letting that company rob them blind because replacing all the proprietary switches and starting over would be such a hairball. Also scouring eBay for used stuff that's no longer available to keep the thing limping along. When the company finally folds, they'll have to swallow the hairball. 

When that time comes, I will recommend that we fix things in such a way that they are never again at the mercy of a vendor that may take off or may fizzle and disappear, but rob us for a few years before they kick the bucket. Do you think any of them will say, "NO, I saw something really cool at a home show, and I really think THIS is the next big thing, let's go all in on another gamble!"


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

splatz said:


> People have been saying this or that is the future of smart lighting controls for at least 20 years. I have a number of customers with a nightmare because the old system (early 2000's) they installed is now impossible to maintain, the company that seemed like the leader / future at the time is now circling the bowl.
> 
> They are currently letting that company rob them blind because replacing all the proprietary switches and starting over would be such a hairball. Also scouring eBay for used stuff that's no longer available to keep the thing limping along. When the company finally folds, they'll have to swallow the hairball.
> 
> When that time comes, I will recommend that we fix things in such a way that they are never again at the mercy of a vendor that may take off or may fizzle and disappear, but rob us for a few years before they kick the bucket. Do you think any of them will say, "NO, I saw something really cool at a home show, and I really think THIS is the next big thing, let's go all in on another gamble!"


I agree, that's why I never installed any of those systems 15 or 20 years ago. It's like low voltage switching back in the 60's, try to find a GE relay or low voltage switches for that system.
That's why I like Lutron Caseta. For one thing, most of their devices do not require a Neutral.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Dan the electricman said:


> I suspect this will change over time. Hopefully, eventually, everything will communicate on some standard (like computer equipment on TCP/IP). Until then I'll install whatever a customer requests. I won't recommend anything, however.



Won't it be great when none of us will have to ever move off the couch ever? Trendy! It'l be super de duper. We will all have time to grow our man buns then. What's gonna be hard though is we might have to get up off the couch to go get more tribal tattoo's so not only lighting, we need more automation in the tattoo department also............... I love trendy


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> Won't it be great when none of us will have to ever move off the couch ever?


I mean, I'm already at that point. Between my logitech harmony remote and lutron caseta for all my lights, I don't have to get up once I sit down for the night. 

I think what I like most about my caseta system is that I can show clients what you can do with the app. 



Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Zigbee and/or Z-wave is the way to go as far as I am concerned. Both open protocols with multiple manufacturers of devices.Never locked into one particular brand for your system. Both act as repeaters for their own protocol devices. 
You do need a Smart hub to operate these, but there are many of them. Some of them work without the manufacturers web server handling the back end. This is important because if they go out of business, your hub may not work. Your devices will continue to work though. With Wi-Fi devices, you are always tied to the manufacturer's web server backend. 
Lutron caseta is great for a few devices. It gets pricey otherwise and again you're tied to one manufacturer. I don't think Lutron is going anywhere anytime soon, but if they do, your casetta smarthub will cease to function and all of your smart switches will become dumb switches.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The good thing about most of this stuff is you can wire normally for residential and either device with smart devices or use regular devices and replace later on. The commercial stuff likely will require wiring ahead of time for 0-10v or addition of 0-10v modules someplace that are controlled wirelessly. Usually a way to retrofit most schemes. I can't predict whats coming down the road so I've stuck with Lutron stuff. It seems to work for the basic scenarios I need to work.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The good thing about this stuff is I have to put neutrals into all switch boxes now so that guys who served coffee in Starbucks can now be suddenly "system integrators" that push Casseta , Zwave , and all that without hooking the ground wire to the white terminal. But it's ok cause they wear pressed shorts and **** and span tennis shoes to the jobs. They're Trendy!


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## dgarmstrong (Dec 20, 2019)

I stick to the Control 4 system that works off Zigbee. There really isn’t any limitations that the zigbee signal can’t handle. Z-way has limitations and the more you put into the system the slower and slower it becomes.
I’ve done jobs with 50+ control 4 switches with touch screens and tv controls on 8 tvs. No lag. No glitches. No problems.
The customer was nothing but pleased and happy with the system


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## integrator (Dec 17, 2019)

Thanks for all the great input.


It sure would be nice if the smart lighting folks were on the same page. For Building Automation systems, BACnet MS/TP and IP are the now recognized technology. 
Would you say that 99% of LED fixtures are now fitted with 0-10VDC driver? which support different types of modules -- nLight, DALI or ZigBee. From what I understand, the fixture has 120VAC power all the time, and the module reduces the light from 0 to 100%. If this is the case, and you have a relay system which turns on\off the 120VAC power, does this reduce the life of the fixture. I guess once you start to use relays, it's no longer a connected system as you don't have control of each fixture.


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## dgarmstrong (Dec 20, 2019)

integrator said:


> Thanks for all the great input.
> 
> 
> It sure would be nice if the smart lighting folks were on the same page. For Building Automation systems, BACnet MS/TP and IP are the now recognized technology.
> Would you say that 99% of LED fixtures are now fitted with 0-10VDC driver? which support different types of modules -- nLight, DALI or ZigBee. From what I understand, the fixture has 120VAC power all the time, and the module reduces the light from 0 to 100%. If this is the case, and you have a relay system which turns on\off the 120VAC power, does this reduce the life of the fixture. I guess once you start to use relays, it's no longer a connected system as you don't have control of each fixture.


Yes. When working with 0-10v dimming. The switch operates the 120v side of the fixture and the dimming operates the 0-10v. I’m not 100% sure what dimming does to a light fixtures life span. But as long as you are using correct dimmers and nothing is flickering. Than they should be fine. LED us weird. They are either going to last for a month. Or last for 5+ years. So when you are on the job site. Keep the lights on as much as possible.


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