# Greenie vs. Copper crimp



## sparky711 (Oct 1, 2011)

Most of the guys I work with carry a separate copper crimping tool to secure multiple ground wires in a box. A couple others use a "Greenie". It was explained to me that the copper connection is a stronger hold and takes up less space in the box. Greenie takes up more space but can be removed easily for future work. What do you guys use?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Crimps by far, greenies cost too much.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I use crimps. Guys who don't use them often hate them. I can cut one off without cutting the wires as quick as most guys can untwist a wirenut.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I use crimps. Guys who don't use them often hate them. I can cut one off without cutting the wires as quick as most guys can untwist a wirenut.


And can leave multiple tails in multi gang boxes.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

sparky711 said:


> Most of the guys I work with carry a separate copper crimping tool to secure multiple ground wires in a box. A couple others use a "Greenie". It was explained to me that the copper connection is a stronger hold and takes up less space in the box. Greenie takes up more space but can be removed easily for future work. What do you guys use?


I use the crimps as well just use these as your linesmen pliers:thumbup:
D2000-9NE-CR


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## sparky711 (Oct 1, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> I use the crimps as well just use these as your linesmen pliers:thumbup:
> D2000-9NE-CR


Damn...you're right. I just bought linesmen's but with out the crimper.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

sparky711 said:


> Damn...you're right. I just bought linesmen's but with out the crimper.


It's always good to have a spare pair kicking around..:thumbup:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Crimps*

Steel

http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-30-410-Steel-Crimp-Connector/dp/B00286A1M6


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## sparky711 (Oct 1, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Industr...f=sr_1_43?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1318186983&sr=1-43
Anybody use these? Its the only tool I've seen the guys I work with use for this application.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Cu v.s. Steel*

On a sidebar

Why do some of you think copper crimps are better than steel crimps??

Steel are waaaay cheaper...


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Cletis said:


> On a sidebar
> 
> Why do some of you think copper crimps are better than steel crimps??
> 
> Steel are waaaay cheaper...



We only use steel......


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

What is a greenie? 

I've never seen a crimp in any building wired after the 60s.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Jeff000 said:


> What is a greenie?
> 
> I've never seen a crimp in any building wired after the 60s.


Enforcement/ code in the early 80's for all grounding connections inside boxes to have a connector instead of simple twisting. B crimp/ ideal are to name a couple. Greenie is an Ideal trademark name for a wirenut with a hole in end to allow a single piece of #12 or 14 to exit.


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## sparky711 (Oct 1, 2011)

Jeff000 said:


> What is a greenie?
> 
> I've never seen a crimp in any building wired after the 60s.


http://www.idealindustries.com/media/img/product/small/30-092.jpg

Didn't know they made em in steel...if its cheaper that's what I'll buy!


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

sparky711 said:


> http://www.idealindustries.com/media/img/product/small/30-092.jpg


Well I'll be.
Never used or seen one before. Is that a resi thing? 
I always just use blue ideal can twists and leave a tail.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

sparky711 said:



> http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Industries-C-24-Crimping-Tool/dp/B001735U4U/ref=sr_1_43?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1318186983&sr=1-43
> Anybody use these? Its the only tool I've seen the guys I work with use for this application.


I got mine in the 70's when we used them to crimp the Buchanan crimp sleeves and the plastic caps on all splices.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Guys who don't use them often hate them.


I use them just because most hate them :laughing::laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I love the arguments "hard to remove" & "hard to make changes". 
SO WHAT?? 

How often do you have to go back into a finished box to add a wire or make changes? Even then, add another crimp ahead of the existing one. 
How often do you have to remove a wire? Just cut it off behind the crimp. 

I have yet to hear one VALID argument against crimps. 

If <collective> you need to go back into boxes so regularly maybe you should get better at roughing in. :laughing:


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

I've always heard that crimps are only legal for residential, can someone confirm this?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> I've always heard that crimps are only legal for residential, can someone confirm this?


You can use them any where you want..:thumbup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

SparkYZ said:


> I've always heard that crimps are only legal for residential, can someone confirm this?


they can be used anywhere, they are UL listed. As long as you follow Mfg directions, you're golden.


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## Clarky (Sep 25, 2011)

I use crimps primarily, take up less room in the box and can leave multi tails. Also I think for the ground your only suppose to use a crimp or Greenie, no other nuts.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> I have yet to hear one VALID argument against crimps.


_They suck_, that is as valid as your opinion that they are good. :thumbsup:

I consider them another item that at one time was a good choice but now better choices have come along.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Clarky said:


> I I think for the ground your only suppose to use a crimp or Greenie, no other nuts.


You can use any listed wire connector for EGCs.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Ford-Chevy Chocolate-Vanilla Crimps-Greenies


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Ford-Chevy Chocolate-Vanilla Crimps-Greenies


Black tape works best...:whistling2::laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Side note... Do any of you still twist egc's all the way down to the cable clamp? If so GFY :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Ford-Chevy Chocolate-Vanilla Crimps-Greenies


B4T-Normal thinking.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> B4T-Normal thinking.


Under ground-on the ground


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Side note... Do any of you still twist egc's all the way down to the cable clamp? If so GFY :laughing:


When I cut in a panel I put all the EGCs in my cordless chuck and spin them so tight all the way to the connectors that God himself could not pull them apart. :jester:















:no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Side note... Do any of you still twist egc's all the way down to the cable clamp? If so GFY :laughing:


That is how i learned to do it but i got lazy.:laughing: 

So i only twist them past the wire nut,..


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I grew up on pipe and wire and still cringe at the thought of a bare ground wire lurking around in a box. inch:

I saw a bag of those crimps on a shelf at the supply house and thought someone was being nostalgic. I gotta get out more........


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> You can use any listed wire connector for EGCs.


A careful check of UL reveals (performed by another forum member, a very well respected one, I don't waste my own time with this sort of foolish rubbish) that "Greenies" are the only "listed" connector for equipment grounds.



But since I like crimps, I gave that about a .0000000001 seconds worth of consideration when I first learned of it.


By the way, it is still legal as far as I know to use the copper tube crimps for joining any conductors together as long as proper insulation is applied to it after. That one I don't do myself.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

BBQ said:


> They suck, that is as valid as your opinion that they are good. :thumbsup:
> 
> I consider them another item that at one time was a good choice but now better choices have come along.


Oh, you can't leave it hanging like that. What better choices are you referring to?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> Oh, you can't leave it hanging like that. What better choices are you referring to?


Well for me greenies and crimps would both be a PITA as MC has an insulated EGC. So typically I just used wirenuts, now the company would use Wagos.

When I used to do a lot of NM I used greens because that makes me happy like crimps make you happy. My first two years in the trade the guy I worked for liked crimps, I never got into them.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> A careful check of UL reveals (performed by another forum member, a very well respected one, I don't waste my own time with this sort of foolish rubbish) that "Greenies" are the only "listed" connector for equipment grounds.


That is interesting but ...


2011 NEC


> 250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding Equipment.
> 
> (A) Permitted Methods. Equipment grounding conductors,
> grounding electrode conductors, and bonding jumpers
> ...



All I need is a listed pressure connector (AKA a wirenut)


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Well for me greenies and crimps would both be a PITA as MC has an insulated EGC. So typically I just used wirenuts, now the company would use Wagos.
> 
> When I used to do a lot of NM I used greens because that makes me happy like crimps make you happy. My first two years in the trade the guy I worked for liked crimps, I never got into them.



I use copper barrel tubes to join mc cable grounds together all the time. You haven't lived till you get the hang of that time and space saver.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> That is interesting but ...
> 
> 
> 2011 NEC
> ...


Ah yes, 2011 which is not adopted here yet........ It's a gray background for that paragraph I bet huh?

I'm glad they finally put the whole stupid issue to a reasonable end. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> I use copper barrel tubes to join mc cable grounds together all the time. You haven't lived till you get the hang of that time and space saver.


Yeah I could strip and likely have to hit device screws.

But truth be told I think they are crap, when I use them with 12 solid and push them back in the box they seem to slide and loosen under the crimp, in other words the crimp is too weak for the conductors.

I just don't like them and choose not to use them, to each their own. 

I am not sure why you guys or so concerned with space, most times I size the boxes big enough to make trim out quick and easy.

Of course there are times when trying to jam a GFCI in an old box or splicing plugmold together every little bit of space helps.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> Ah yes, 2011 which is not adopted here yet........ It's a gray background for that paragraph I bet huh?
> 
> I'm glad they finally put the whole stupid issue to a reasonable end. :thumbsup:


:blink:


NEC 2008



> 250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding
> Equipment.
> (A) Permitted Methods. Grounding conductors and bonding
> jumpers shall be connected by one of the following
> ...



Maybe there is another code section I am missing and you are thinking of.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> But truth be told I think they are crap, when I use them with 12 solid and push them back in the box they seem to slide and loosen under the crimp, in other words the crimp is too weak for the conductors..


If you twist the wires together first that wont happen...:whistling2::laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> If you twist the wires together first that wont happen...:whistling2::laughing:


That must be it. :laughing::laughing:


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