# 60.2 amp oven



## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

I have a customer who wants to install a new free standing range.

This is only a little 30" wide unit, but because of the convection, etc, it's 60.2 amps

The instructions say minimum 50 amp. But that won't suppercede the code. I'm on 2008. I see that upto 12k I can size the wire and breaker for 80%, but since this is over 12kw, I guess I'm stuck at 100%.

So I need to run a 4ga copper NM, hard wired since a range cord is only rated for 50 amps.

Any advice would be apreciated.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Wow 60.2a oven!! Post some pic's of it. If you have instructions that say 50a min. as long as you have 50a min. you would be fine.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Wow 60.2a oven!! Post some pic's of it. If you have instructions that say 50a min. as long as you have 50a min. you would be fine.


It also says you only need to use a 4 wire supply if it's in a mobile home.

While there are specific exceptions, this is not one. So I need to feed it with a 70 amp breaker and wire.

If I'm wrong, please explain why.

Oh, BTW it's an electrolux


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Does the name plate have a min.? If not I think what you have planned would be the safest way to go.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> Wow 60.2a oven!! Post some pic's of it. If you have instructions that say 50a min. as long as you have 50a min. you would be fine.


 

If it says 50a min then that should be all you need. But you do need to find the nameplate for sure.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

heel600 said:


> I have a customer who wants to install a new free standing range.
> 
> This is only a little 30" wide unit, but because of the convection, etc, it's 60.2 amps
> 
> ...


I think you missed Something in the chart. 
" 2008 NEC
NOTE 1
Over 12 kW through 27 kW ranges all of same rating. For ranges individually rated more than 12 kW but not more than 27 kW, the maximum
demand in Column C shall be increased 5 percent for each additional kilowatt of rating or major fraction thereof by which the rating of individual
ranges exceeds 12 kW."

I take it you have 60.2 X 240=14448 W or 14.5KW so take the 80% and add 15% to it gives 95%

14448 X.95=13725.6 / 240v=57.19A

So you have to have wire rated for 58 A Which according to T310.16 is 4tw ,breaker would be 60


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## guschash (Jul 8, 2007)

I would go with what the manufactor says. If he says min. 50amps, thats what I would go by. I think 220.50 note 4 would apply.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

guschash said:


> I would go with what the manufactor says. If he says min. 50amps, thats what I would go by. I think 220.50 note 4 would apply.


Same here.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

heel600 said:


> This is only a little 30" wide unit, but because of the convection, etc, it's 60.2 amps


Where did this number come from? What is the KW on the nameplate? I have never seen a residential range that needed more than 50 amps.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I did a quick search for large stand alone convection range,and came up with this spec for power
120/240 VAC, 120/208 VAC, 15.3kW/40A, 11.5kW/40A 

but I don't see how 15.3KW can translate to 40A either. 15.3/240=63.75 so go figure ????:blink:

I guess different MFG same math?


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

> So you have to have wire rated for 58 A Which according to T310.16 is 4tw ,breaker would be 60


The walmart near my house only had 53 amp wire. I was able to get the last 58 amp breaker though.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Heel 600-- you are not stuck with 100% unless it is commercial. Since NM was discussed and T. 220.55 was being mentioned, I think it is resi.

15.3kw range figured for commercial would be 62.5 amps however the same range for resi would be calculated using 220.55

Col. C states 8kw plus (note 1) 5% for each kw over 12. 3.3kw * 5%= 16.5%

8kw * 1.165 = 9.32 kw
9320/240 = 38.8 amps

So for a resi hookup 40 amps not sure where the 50 amps comes from. Manufacturers perogative, I suppose. If the unit were wired with 40 amps and the stove tripped breakers then the mfg. would be getting calls. 

Perhaps they are protecting for time like xmas and thanksgiving when the range is on for longer periods of time and all burners are going.

I would wire it to the 50 amps also.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Article 220 isn't there to size your range circuit conductors from what I understand, it's for load calcs. Directions say 50 amp minumum. I'd personally like to see that on the nameplate also. Really you are looking at a 50 amp breaker with wire rated for 50 amps. Manufacturer already took into account the branch circuit calculation. Same as on a AC.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

You also can take a look at 210.19(A)(3).


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Where did this number come from? What is the KW on the nameplate? I have never seen a residential range that needed more than 50 amps.


Residential grade Viking brand ranges are often in the 60-amp category. Some Thermador ranges are over 50 amp. Even some of the Sears Kenmore professional series ranges are over 50 amp.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Residential grade Viking brand ranges are often in the 60-amp category.


Did any of the 60-amp ones say 50 amp MCA?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Residential grade Viking brand ranges are often in the 60-amp category. Some Thermador ranges are over 50 amp. Even some of the Sears Kenmore professional series ranges are over 50 amp.


 

I've done a bunch of vikings and now I seem to recall one did take a 60a breaker.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I have only done one Viking range and to the best of my memory I think it took a 50a breaker.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Did any of the 60-amp ones say 50 amp MCA?


Beats me. I think that the OP was dealing with a sorely outdated instruction sheet that hasn't been revised, particularly since it mentions that you only need 4-wire in trailer homes.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> I have only done one Viking range and to the best of my memory I think it took a 50a breaker.


In Foxcroft alone I've wired at least 20. One Gc I work for only uses Viking


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> In Foxcroft alone I've wired at least 20. One Gc I work for only uses Viking


 Well, I wouln't expect anything less from the people that live in Foxcroft.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Beats me. I think that the OP was dealing with a sorely outdated instruction sheet that hasn't been revised, particularly since it mentions that you only need 4-wire in trailer homes.


 I think you might have hit the nail on the head.:thumbsup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

These spec homes in Foxcroft? Pretty unusual for the GC to pick out the appliances, unless it's a spec.


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

If you have more than 12kw range and still have instructions that allow 50 amp circuit this is because not all of the heating elements are expected to be on at the same time remember that you have thermostatically controlled and cycling controlled elements and you will never see 50 amps of load for very long if you ever do see 50 amps.

There is no 125% factor added to range circuit because it is not a continuous load.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> These spec homes in Foxcroft? Pretty unusual for the GC to pick out the appliances, unless it's a spec.


 

No all high end kitchen remodel work. Not a one under 100k. Most more like 200k. We would finish one and after the wife's friends came over we would have another to do. After the banks started laying off the upper people most of the big projects are on the back burner.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> These spec homes in Foxcroft?


 The houses in Foxcroft are about the farthest thing from a spec house.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw if you do a lot of work in Foxcroft it is a wonder that we have not crossed path's.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> The houses in Foxcroft are about the farthest thing from a spec house.


 
Yea all million to multiple million dollar houses. And thats not even the rich side of town!:no:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> These spec homes in Foxcroft? Pretty unusual for the GC to pick out the appliances, unless it's a spec.


 
Every job we've done for him we have put in Viking. I don't know if he actually recommends Viking or if the customers just see them in the neighbors and want the same thing.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> jwjrw if you do a lot of work in Foxcroft it is a wonder that we have not crossed path's.


It is a wonder. Mickey D got to know me pretty well. He inspected a bunch of my jobs. I've done MAJOR work in at least 25 houses. The CFO of SHELCO was a 500k addition. I still do work there. Was at the swimclub a few weeks ago working.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> It is a wonder. Mickey D got to know me pretty well. He inspected a bunch of my jobs. I've done MAJOR work in at least 25 houses. The CFO of SHELCO was a 500k addition. I still do work there. Was at the swimclub a few weeks ago working.


 I used to work in Mickey D area all the time. I enjoyed seeing the way some get to live in this city.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> I used to work in Mickey D area all the time. I enjoyed seeing the way some get to live in this city.


 

I hope to be one of them one day!! :thumbsup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> I hope to be one of them one day!! :thumbsup:


 Me too.:whistling2:


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

JohnR said:


> I did a quick search for large stand alone convection range,and came up with this spec for power
> 120/240 VAC, 120/208 VAC, 15.3kW/40A, 11.5kW/40A
> 
> but I don't see how 15.3KW can translate to 40A either. 15.3/240=63.75 so go figure ????:blink:
> ...


240/120 delta 3 ph. 120v is only used for control circuits. 

15.3kVA/240/sqrt 3 = 36.8A
11.5kVA/208/sqrt 3 = 32A 
You're above 30A, so you can't use 30. Go up one more and you've got 40.

Wait... WTF that product is single phase. Perhaps they're assuming you won't have every single heating element turned on all at once.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

yeah silly math:no:


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

Electric_Light said:


> ... Perhaps they're assuming you won't have every single heating element turned on all at once.


You are catching on to something here:thumbsup:

Even if you have them all switched on you will not have the full capacity on at a continuous rate because of thermostats, and cycling controls attempting to keep a constant level of heat.

If you have everything on and were drawing 60.2 amps that is about 17% overload - how long does it take to trip a 50 amp breaker, probably longer than it remains loaded at this level before a control device cycles off - I don't know what time will take to trip and it probably varies from one model of breaker to another.


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