# Refrigeration efficiency system



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Currently at the midpoint of a very large Liquor store build. We have a cooler with 30 doors in which owners would like to add a relay system for energy efficiency. 

I’m not familiar with it and already have enough on my plate so I’m looking to sub this out. 

Question is who do I call ? Most electrical contractors I’ve chatted with do not get into this stuff, am I looking for a refrigeration company to handle this or an electrical contractor who does this type of work ? 


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## Glock23gp (Mar 10, 2014)

I would call a specialty control company.

Many out there specialize in and only do control work.

If you call a large HVAC contractor they would probably get you some names and numbers.

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## Glock23gp (Mar 10, 2014)

Www.tag-inc.us

This is a company here used a lot by large industrial facilities. I'd think similar companies there could help you.

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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

If I was still in business this would be perfect for me. Many of my customers were other electricians and HVAC companies.

Try Burnell Controls, they're in Andover.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Hussman.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I'd take it in a second, I love control work.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MTW said:


> I'd take it in a second, I love control work.




I’m pretty sure I would also like it, and if things were slower I would love to learn it. 

I’m already and still learning everyday , so maybe in future after I see how a couple are done 


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

WronGun said:


> Currently at the midpoint of a very large Liquor store build. We have a cooler with 30 doors in which owners would like to *add a relay system for energy efficiency*.
> 
> I’m not familiar with it and already have enough on my plate so I’m looking to sub this out.
> 
> ...


What do they want the relay system to do?


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## PaddyF924 (Feb 2, 2017)

Depending on where in mass you are you could try erie. They're a union shop and all they do is control work.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MikeFL said:


> What do they want the relay system to do?


Never heard of a relay system to add efficiency to a walk in box.

Now if they wanted a controller to sequence the various systems that cool the box by ambient temp inside it then I could see that.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*30 door unit*



MechanicalDVR said:


> Never heard of a relay system to add efficiency to a walk in box.
> 
> Now if they wanted a controller to sequence the various systems that cool the box by ambient temp inside it then I could see that.


Sounds like they want to shut off blowers in a area when a door is open so they are not blowing the cold air out of the cooler.

30 switchs 6 relays set of prints. $$$$ done take it wrongun

Add in a door open alarm while your at it, more $$$$$$$


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Never heard of a relay system to add efficiency to a walk in box.
> 
> Now if they wanted a controller to sequence the various systems that cool the box by ambient temp inside it then I could see that.



I did an add on wiring system job for another company at a marine base that had the contract but no local electrical license ability. All rigid conduit. Wired up the mess hall kitchen walk in's , shelves in walk in's , magnetic door locks and inside release, card readers, you name it. Weight of shelves was monitored to the ounce. Camera's. forgot about that. All to prevent shrinkage. Apparently that was an issue before we were done, lobsters and steaks maybe were growing legs. 
We had to bring in big genny's on 18 wheel trucks to keep the place powered up while swapping out the distribution system for the building as well. A plc system interface that was tied into the Pentagon. The software they put in was supposed to be able to track the number of men coming into the room and figure out how much of what ingredients would be needed for the meals of the day, and then it tracked by weight how much actually went in and out of the kitchen. I have no idea how well it all worked out cause I wasn't invited to the final top out of the project.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Head pressure control schemes, outdoor fan cycling, and demand defrost are the three main ways energy savings are obtained in reach in display coolers. I guess someone might super-simplify that and call them a "relay system". I dunno.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I don’t know the how it works exactly but i assume it saves energy by switching on cooling units at different times and not allowing it all to run together. 

I’m fine with making a little on it by subbing it out I did this with the HVAC also because the owners trust me and think I’m a GC for some reason. 

Most of you know I’m still new to most of this and wiring the cooler power , cooler interior lighting , etc., etc. is also new to me. 

For the last 6 months I’ve been very busy in the retail settings and really enjoy it. 

I have an S-License which I also put to use since every single one of these jobs comes with security and surveillance Projects. 

I can only learn so much at once. 




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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> Head pressure control schemes, outdoor fan cycling, and demand defrost are the three main ways energy savings are obtained in reach in display coolers. I guess someone might super-simplify that and call them a "relay system". I dunno.




The exact name for it I’m not sure , but I’ve seen a few very large enclosures full of relays that control some of these very large walk in coolers 


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

WronGun said:


> I’m fine with making a little on it by subbing it out I did this with the HVAC also because the owners trust me and think I’m a GC for some reason.


It's not that unusual for the EC to get prime. I made a career out of messing around with things I don't know much about.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

WronGun said:


> I don’t know the how it works exactly but i assume it saves energy by switching on cooling units at different times and not allowing it all to run together.
> 
> I’m fine with making a little on it by subbing it out I did this with the HVAC also because the owners trust me and think I’m a GC for some reason.
> 
> ...



If you were doing your own security system today and didn't want to subscribe to a monitoring company, how would you do it? An Ademco dialer and a burner cell phone? And could it livestream audio and video to your cell phone you carry?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MikeFL said:


> If you were doing your own security system today and didn't want to subscribe to a monitoring company, how would you do it? An Ademco dialer and a burner cell phone? And could it livestream audio and video to your cell phone you carry?




I would say 95% of installs people absolutely want monitoring and mobile access

The other 5% is simply a local alarm, on these I usually add an extra siren. 

I’m not familiar with setting up an independent dial out without monitoring/dispatch service if that’s what your referring too. Didn’t even know this was a possibility ? 



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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

WronGun said:


> I would say 95% of installs people absolutely want monitoring and mobile access
> 
> The other 5% is simply a local alarm, on these I usually add an extra siren.
> 
> ...


All the monitoring company is doing is programming the dialer to call them. Any non-proprietary dialer can call any number you tell it to call. I'd think by now there would be capability to stream the video & audio.

Do you agree that could be done simply via internet? Have it text you or call your phone?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MikeFL said:


> All the monitoring company is doing is programming the dialer to call them. Any non-proprietary dialer can call any number you tell it to call. I'd think by now there would be capability to stream the video & audio.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you agree that could be done simply via internet? Have it text you or call your phone?




I understand. 

Absolutely , there must be a way to do this. 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MikeFL said:


> All the monitoring company is doing is programming the dialer to call them. Any non-proprietary dialer can call any number you tell it to call. I'd think by now there would be capability to stream the video & audio.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you agree that could be done simply via internet? Have it text you or call your phone?













Just some products I found 



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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

I think Honeywell bought Ademco. They were always the industry standard for quality, commercial alarm systems. You'd buy a cabinet and whatever modules you needed and build as complex or simple of a system as you want. Back then it had a single phone line going to it. I'm sure today they'll connect to anything you want. 

With all the technology there is out there I've been considering building a new alarm system to supplement what we have now which is a DVR with remote viewing from a phone, laptop or pc, and standard contacts & motion detectors on an ADT monitored system (now called Tyco Integrated Security for commercial systems).

I want the dialer to ring my phone and show live stream audio & video. I think that would be the best. Fortunately it's been years since an alarm event but you can never let your guard down.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I love the NVR POE setups they have now , so much better than the older BNC/Power or RCA/Power. 

I started out installing QSEE Systems but lately I’ve found their software not very user friendly which led me to being a reseller/Installer for ExacQVision so far I’m very impressed. 

Designing a 25 camera system for the project this thread is about. 

The alarm system will be a wireless setup because that’s what they have in their other locations and like it very much. 

Seems most products are becoming wireless. I receive many calls to design/install Simplisafe systems and I do! At no cheaper than regular rates and not 1 wire is involved. 

Most of the time Is spent on a laptop during installations. I will say a Simplisafe system is pretty impressive for the cost. However , I know some companies are hating this wireless stuff.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

I won't go wireless. But I respect that many people do. To me it just leaves too many doors wide open.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Head pressure control schemes, outdoor fan cycling, and demand defrost are the three main ways energy savings are obtained in reach in display coolers. I guess someone might super-simplify that and call them a "relay system". I dunno.


That reminds me of these little guys , which (two things) are very very great little add on's that do what three different Caps were called for in the past. And 2nd thing is they are made by SUPCO, which also makes the most professional of all the insulation testing meters by virtue of colored led lights in a graduated scale instead of those silly old school dinosaur OHM'S thingy's. 










https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supco-RCO410-3-In-1-Start-Solid-State-Relay-Overload-Start-Capacitor-Combination/173186545194?epid=5015530487&hash=item2852b8f62a:g:6n0AAOSwZEValx-M


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

MikeFL said:


> With all the technology there is out there I've been considering building a new alarm system to supplement what we have now which is a DVR with remote viewing from a phone, laptop or pc, and standard contacts & motion detectors...


What I did with my fairly old system (Ademco Vista 20) was add a simple relay to the alarm out that closes an alarm in contact on my DVR which in turn both emails me and texts me (via email) instantaneously. I can then very quickly open my dvr viewing app to see what might be going on.



> Most mobile providers allow email to text conversion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honeywell bought Ademco many years ago, and many ADT systems, at least in my area, are a rebranded Vista 20.

IPDataTel makes some nice universal communicators but I much preferred the $14 cost of my work-around. :biggrin:


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

CTshockhazard said:


> What I did with my fairly old system (Ademco Vista 20) was add a simple relay to the alarm out that closes an alarm in contact on my DVR which in turn both emails me and texts me (via email) instantaneously. I can then very quickly open my dvr viewing app to see what might be going on.
> 
> Honeywell bought Ademco many years ago, and many ADT systems, at least in my area, are a rebranded Vista 20.
> 
> IPDataTel makes some nice universal communicators but I much preferred the $14 cost of my work-around. :biggrin:


With a cell phone we can have a unique ringtone based on the caller id. I guess we can't do that with a text yet. I don't do email on my phone and I doubt I'd hear a text especially if I'm asleep or in a noisy environment. But I like what you're talking. I want to figure out how to integrate a burner cell phone which uses cell service to call me so I can have that unique alarm/ ringtone. A better case scenario would be if we could make the receiving phone sound and display an alarm which is loud and constant until acknowledged. 

One day I'll get it all figured out and build it. And I want audio too, both ways. Right now I just have streaming video.

Thanks for the post.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

I should have mentioned that that is in addition to a stand alone dialer that indeed rings a very different and annoying ringtone. It is a United Security Products AD-2001, that features 2 way audio.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

The efficient refrigerations systems I've seen are computer controlled. They have one large compressor feeding many different coolers. These systems are built and maintained by highly trained technicians.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

3DDesign said:


> The efficient refrigerations systems I've seen are computer controlled. They have one large compressor feeding many different coolers. These systems are built and maintained by highly trained technicians.


Yeah a rack system, that is more super market type systems that I've worked on in the past with computerized expansion valves and all. 

They are a far cry from just a few relays.


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