# "readily accessible," dishwasher gfci's, 2014?



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

A gfci in the basement is readily accessible. It does not state that the gfci needs to be in sight.

The kitchen, including the dishwasher, in the 2014 NEC, also needs to be on afci


----------



## BSK3720 (Mar 29, 2014)

AFCI breaker, GFCI receptacle under the sink, SO cord on the dishwasher. Only way to meet NEC 2014 without the dual purpose breaker.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

BSK3720 said:


> AFCI breaker, GFCI receptacle under the sink, SO cord on the dishwasher. Only way to meet NEC 2014 without the dual purpose breaker.


Since things are stored under the sink, the GFCI installed in that location may not be considered "readily accessible" by your inspector.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

IMO, if the gfci were installed up high close to the cabinet door then I think the inspector would be hard pressed to red tag it.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I had been under the impression SO cord & male cord cap met the 430 requirements for disco w/in sight for dish & pig. I'm aware of some juristictions requiring a switch because the dish&pigs are not lotto compliant for direct wiring of them.

So now a gfci has to be 'readily accessible' vs. 'accessible' ? That means nothing in the way, so a toaster gets us tagged....? :blink:

~C:001_huh:S~ 

_PS>>>>emphasis on the_ :001_huh:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

It all depends on an inspector... Most are reasonable but I don't think a toaster is an issue. LOL


----------



## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

BSK3720 said:


> AFCI breaker, GFCI receptacle under the sink, SO cord on the dishwasher. Only way to meet NEC 2014 without the dual purpose breaker.


Don't forget about the ever famous blank face / deadfront gfci device. There are multiple places that one could locate them to gain the GFCI protection and keep the deadfront device readily accessible.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

manchestersparky said:


> Don't forget about the ever famous blank face / deadfront gfci device. There are multiple places that one could locate them to gain the GFCI protection and keep the deadfront device readily accessible.


The breaker in the panel meets the definition of really accessible


----------



## chris.b (Jan 28, 2013)

I have a municipality that will not allow the outlet for the dishwasher unless the cord for the dishwasher is less than 4ft., and it can't be in the next cabinet. I can't remember what code article that is and I don't have the book with me at home to look it up.

Edit:
422.16 Flexible Cords.(2) The length of the cord shall be 0.9 m to 1.2 m (3 ft to 4 ft) measured from the face of the attachment plug to the plane of the rear of the appliance.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

chris.b said:


> I have a municipality that will not allow the outlet for the dishwasher unless the cord for the dishwasher is less than 4ft., and it can't be in the next cabinet. I can't remember what code article that is and I don't have the book with me at home to look it up.
> 
> Edit:
> 422.16 Flexible Cords.(2) The length of the cord shall be 0.9 m to 1.2 m (3 ft to 4 ft) measured from the face of the attachment plug to the plane of the rear of the appliance.


And the cord must be listed by the manufacturer of the dishwasher.

From the UL White Book



> This category covers household dishwashers intended to be installed in
> accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code.’’
> Household dishwashing machines may be of the cord-and-plug-connected
> or permanently connected type.
> ...


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The breaker in the panel meets the definition of really accessible


But is it lotto capable ? My ahj had me install a hasp/hook on a panel a while ago after i argued this....

~CS~


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Most dishwasher aren't listed to be used with a cord. The only way to meet 2014 nec is hardwired with fmc, with either a switch insight of the dishwasher or a loto attachment at the breaker. 

Another note passing the so cord or any cord through a cabinet wall is also a NoGo, violates art 4XX something.


----------



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

tates1882 said:


> a loto attachment at the breaker


What's a loto attachment?


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> What's a loto attachment?


a breaker capable of being locked in the open position. I don't believe that a temporary loto is acceptable.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

wildleg said:


> a breaker capable of being locked in the open position. I don't believe that a temporary loto is acceptable.


Well that's kinda my Q Wildone. I've got lotto kits on board chicken electrics fleet , inclusive of the breaker type.....~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Allow me to_ confuse_ myself further,,,,,



> *422.31 Disconnection of Permanently Connected Appli-
> ances. *
> (C) Motor-Operated Appliances Rated over 1/8 Horse-
> power.
> ...



How does the ex's *unit switch* comply in conjunction with 422.34 A,B,C,D , or are all dish's manufactured with the following>>>>???





> *422.34 Unit Switch(es) * as Disconnecting Means. *A unit
> switch( es) with a marked-off position that is a part of an
> appliance and disconnects all ungrounded conductors* shall
> be permitted as the disconnecting means required by this
> ...


~CS~


----------



## BSK3720 (Mar 29, 2014)

Thanks for spreading the confusion.


----------



## BSK3720 (Mar 29, 2014)

tates1882 said:


> Most dishwasher aren't listed to be used with a cord. The only way to meet 2014 nec is hardwired with fmc, with either a switch insight of the dishwasher or a loto attachment at the breaker.
> 
> Another note passing the so cord or any cord through a cabinet wall is also a NoGo, violates art 4XX something.


This is new to me. We've run cords through cabinet walls for years. Can you narrow down 4xx something? And don't tell my inspector. :whistling2:


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BSK3720 said:


> This is new to me. We've run cords through cabinet walls for years. Can you narrow down 4xx something? And don't tell my inspector. :whistling2:


imho a cabinet is not a 'wall' , but.....



> *400.8 Uses Not Permitted.* Unless specifically permitted
> in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the
> following:
> (1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
> ...


~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BSK3720 said:


> Thanks for spreading the confusion.


It's my gift in this life.....~CS~


----------



## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> imho a cabinet is not a 'wall' , but.....
> 
> ~CS~


I was always under the impression that a cabinet is a partition of the cabinet assembly. There is no code I have seen that forbids running through the cabinet. Would a 20 amp gfci installed in the back of the adjacent cabinet suffice for the new code? We can get over the cord by just having the customer order it with the dishwasher from the manufacturer. My question is is a gfci with cord and plug connection for the dishwasher an approved means of disconnect? This is how we have been doing it here.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

3D Electric said:


> > I was always under the impression that a cabinet is a partition of the cabinet assembly. There is no code I have seen that forbids running through the cabinet.
> 
> 
> Well said 3D , i may have to steal that....
> ...


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

BSK3720 said:


> This is new to me. We've run cords through cabinet walls for years. Can you narrow down 4xx something? And don't tell my inspector. :whistling2:


just because it's done that way for years doesn't make it correct. It all really boils down to what your ahj will accept. Although running a dishwasher cord through a cabinet wall and plugging it in will most likely never cause damage to personnel or property, it's not accepted in the two states I work in. My favorite was to put the receptacle in the bottom right corner of dishwasher cabinet nailed to baseplate, 6ft appliance pigtail and gfci protection from an upstream device. Same situation probably would never cause damage to personnel and property but now it's prevented by my ahj's interpretation of 2014 nec.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Receptacle under sink, cord run through the same hole as the flexible drain and water supply hoses is how we fly here. If a cabinet is considered a wall, how do you install those range hood/microwaves with the cord coming out of the top??


----------



## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

wendon said:


> Receptacle under sink, cord run through the same hole as the flexible drain and water supply hoses is how we fly here. If a cabinet is considered a wall, how do you install those range hood/microwaves with the cord coming out of the top??


That's how we do it here as well. Two single gang boxes. One with a gfci (dishwasher plugs in here) and the other is a switched receptacle for the disposal. Our AHJ wants the receptacle under the sink gfci protected in case the sink leaks.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> But is it lotto capable ? My ahj had me install a hasp/hook on a panel a while ago after i argued this....
> 
> ~CS~


Well of course it needs a breaker lock on it.


----------



## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

BSK3720 said:


> AFCI breaker, GFCI receptacle under the sink, SO cord on the dishwasher. Only way to meet NEC 2014 without the dual purpose breaker.





manchestersparky said:


> Don't forget about the ever famous blank face / deadfront gfci device. There are multiple places that one could locate them to gain the GFCI protection and keep the deadfront device readily accessible.





mcclary's electrical said:


> The breaker in the panel meets the definition of really accessible


McClary - agree 100% My reply was aimed at BSK3720's post about a gfci receptacle under the sink as the only way to meet code without using a dual rated breker


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank You NFPA for fattening the pockets of manufacturers again. YOU SUCK.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

3D Electric said:


> Our AHJ wants the receptacle under the sink gfci protected in case the sink leaks.


I laugh because that is not, IMO, the purpose of the gfci. It is for protection to people.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Well of course it needs a breaker lock on it.



would this be the applicable code?




> *110.25 Lockable Disconnecting Means.* Where a discon-
> necting means is required to be lockable open elsewhere in
> this Code, it shall be capable of being locked in the open
> position. The provisions for locking shall remain in place
> with or without the lock installed.




~CS~


----------



## dbrickles (Feb 4, 2020)

A kitche


Dennis Alwon said:


> A gfci in the basement is readily accessible. It does not state that the gfci needs to be in sight.
> 
> The kitchen, including the dishwasher, in the 2014 NEC, also needs to be on afci
> The kitchen small appliance circuits in NEC 210.8 are required to be dual protected with both GFCI/AFCI protected!!


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

This thread is almost 6 years old


----------

