# Help me choose an LED fixture for apt hallways



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Help me find a replacement for these:

http://www.americanfluorescent.com/artifacts/C20.pdf

Its the 2072 model or functionally equivalent. There are four of these in each entry. The customer expressed an interest in LED. They would like them to be controlled by motion sensors. One of the four in each hall is wall mounted, say 12 feet up in the stairs to the second floor. One fixture is at top of stairs between the two apartments on the second floor. One is overhead as you enter the front door. The fourth is in the hall to the first floor apartments.

The ceiling fixtures would be controlled by the sensor switch dual technology sensors to deal with possibly the light in the way of the sensor. The wall mounted fixture would need a wire fished down to switch height, say 50 inch to top of box and use a wall sensor to catch you coming in the front door.

I would like a wall sconce style fixture for the one up high.

I am looking for units that would fit in the same footprint of the existing fixture, have the same light output, and of course use less energy. 

Anyone have a couple of fixtures in mind that would work?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Possibly this although not shown as listed for wall mount. Maybe in the one foot length with the higher lumen output. Maybe two foot.

http://www.cooperlighting.com/specfiles/pdf/fail-safe/HVL8_LED_VR_101768_SSSx.pdf


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I've done one recently where the customer had purchased standard 2 light bowl w/ center rod fixtures and we used 6 watt LED 'a" bulbs and did control both hall stair lights in each unit via motion switch


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I looked at the small rab led wall packs today to get an idea of what their like. They show a fixture on their website that has two units attached end to end with a ceiling canopy. The one at the supply house looked good but I think they would have blinding sharp light at the ceiling level I am working with.


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

These might do.


http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/LL/documents/SpecSheets/VGR1C_LED.pdf


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The worst of all of this it is hard to find a sample of anything off the shelf to try out and see what it looks like. If you order something, you don't know till it gets there and probably not returnable. Long lead times for things that aren't labeled "quick ship".


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Looking at that VGR1C, it doesn't look that different from what it would be replacing. It has that frosted lense that likely won't blind anyone either. That might be worth trying in the 50w version. Good for wall and ceiling too.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Grainger has the bronze ones, we'd need white:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LITHONIA-Wall-Pack-6ECG9?Pid=search

Look at the price!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Graingers is always high and the price in book is not the one you pay ........ at least not what we pay.

Take a look at 'list prices' in a GE catalog or Square D etc, they are joke prices.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

True about Graingers, but I wonder how much lower they will go? Even in the $400 range is going to be tough to swallow, even with a utility rebate. Have to find a suitable fixture first to test with.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Another:

http://www.vandalite.com/PDFS/Reflex%20410.pdf


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> True about Graingers, but I wonder how much lower they will go? Even in the $400 range is going to be tough to swallow, even with a utility rebate. Have to find a suitable fixture first to test with.


Even at $200 that would be hard to sell.

Got to give Grainger credit they get their money..


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have account with them. Don't use them too often, but they have good customer service and ship quickly. Theres one close to me and is helpful when I need boiler controls or fans.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Another:
> 
> http://www.vandalite.com/PDFS/Reflex 410.pdf


How about this..
http://www.lightingdirect.com/sea-g...lete-fixture-surface-mount-downlight/p1209643


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

At $130 for a white one thats supposed to be in stock, thats a whole lot easier to stomach for a test.


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> At $130 for a white one thats supposed to be in stock, thats a whole lot easier to stomach for a test.


I'd check with your supplier in the Lithonia fixture, I'm sure it's way less than Graingers price as BBQ said. Plus it has a 5 year warranty....Seagull has 1 year. Nothing wrong with Seagull, but you usually get what you pay for.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

My fear with the seagull is that it will be like a couple of the early Halo led cans that I took out in a conference room because of that laser beam like output, glare whatever you want to call it. I'll check around for some prices on the Lithonia, just have to remember whose carrying lithonia around here.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Got to give Grainger credit they get their money..


Here at work we buy almost everything from Grainger. 

Ever try to purchase a job sized material list through them??? Great fun. :no: :blink:


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Ima Hack said:


> These might do.


Look at the specifications on the Acuity. 
http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/LL/documents/SpecSheets/VGR1C_LED.pdf

You're looking at 36 lumens per watt _INITIAL_ with the 3500K. That's borderline mediocre. They normally specify 30% depreciation on LEDs, so you're down to 25 lumens per watt near the end of life. That's worse than halogen automotive headlamps. I think you can get about twice the efficacy using PL-T CFL.

They should let go of fixation to LEDs for now and seriously consider mercury gas-phosphor system utilizing industry standard foot print ballasts and lamps. 

FC12T5 55w for a larger fixture (12" dia) or PL-L 26W, 32W or 42W for compact ones.


Look at the ambient temperature range on the Grainger one. It's fairly restrictive even in areas with mild summer.
*23 to 86F

*As for the Seagull one, I wouldn't listen to this 

"Designed to last 35,000 hours, or approximately 20 years under normal use of 4-5 hours per day., but we only warrant it for a year" non-sense. That's basically the same as a used car sales man telling you "these cars last 150,000 miles and with 100,000 miles on it now, you've at least 50,000 miles left, but we won't warranty it for more than 3 months". I like that how they tell you "more foot candle @ 8' than 26W CFL" but don't reveal the lumen. If you make the beam focused and have a spot light pattern, you can make it have more foot candle directly below the fixture.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I like being able to buy through their website. They seem to be better able to tell you when you will have something even if they don't have it in stock. The extra cost is paying for that infrastructure. They have their place.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd probably use the 50w 4100k version with plastic lense. According to:

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/Library/LL/documents/specsheets/VGR1C_LED.pdf

2490/50= 49.8 Any better?


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> I'd probably use the 50w 4100k version with plastic lense. According to:
> 
> http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/Library/LL/documents/specsheets/VGR1C_LED.pdf
> 
> 2490/50= 49.8 Any better?


You're going to have to ask your end user if they're ok with 4100K. If they want 3500K you're SOL. 

For the wall mount, if you want a downward light, CREE LR6 is one of the best. Use it with the wall mount fixture. They have a SC6 surface mount if you don't want to build a can into the ceiling but I don't know if your customer would like the look of it. 

You just use it with a LR6-DR1000 which is rated at 12.5W/1000lm or 80 lm/W out the bottom which is better than any CFL solution now. $115 for the LED system. All the LEDs, thermal management and electronics are built into this module. The "fixture" you'd use with this is literally just a decorative shell. I'm not sure about the cost of surface mount or wall mount fixture. 80lm/W luminaire efficacy is actually about as good as you get with best 4' T8 lamp-ballast system in best fixtures. If you can get this to work design wise, that's what I would go with. 

The CREE is only available in 2700 and 3500K though. I'd probably go with 3500K. 

http://www.creeledlighting.com/products.aspx

In my opinion though, if the design is acceptable to your user, CREE is the best of the best .


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

They like the higher kelvin #s. I think 4100k would work for them. The nice thing about the existing fixture although it looks funny on the wall is that it throws light all over the stairwell or rather lights up the whole thing fairly well.

That wall mount would probably work nicely and look better than whats there now. The other three would need to use the remodel housing. I think cans tend to just shine down as opposed to all around with a surface fixture. The first floor hall might need an additional fixture. Still these are cheaper and even with the addition of an extra fixture, the energy savings are there. 4x90w vs 5x12.5w. I'd still like to try it out and see what it looks like.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

You'll have to contact Lithonia and get photometric data on the existing fixture. It does look like it uses electronic ballast already, so the system efficacy is probably in 70s used in conjunction with triphosphor lamps. You'll have to check the ballast label to check the input wattage. 

Many magnetic ballasts used more wattage than sum of lamp wattage while electronic ones use about the same or less than rated lamp wattage. Unlike incandescent lamps, the input wattage depends on the ballast as well as the lamp.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have one of the existing ones in my lap, poached it out of one of the storage closets. They don't install them anymore. They are magnetic ballasts. They use two bulbs each, a 32w and 40w circline bulb. The ballast says .54 amp/120v but that has to be for the smaller combination of bulbs it will drive. Another decal says to multiply the lamp wattage by 1.25 for line va. 1.25x72=90va which seems more likely. As for lumens etc, the American fluorescent website says to call for that info.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Sold them on one hallway set up with motion sensors with the existing fixtures. Haven't given up though.


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