# Is this a hack idea?



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

sounds plausible; the box would need to be secured somehow; thanks for the idea, I'll go get rich now!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Only if you cover the splice in Scotchkote to keep the moisture out


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> sounds plausible; the box would need to be secured somehow; thanks for the idea, I'll go get rich now!


Sure, you could do this splice right above a joist in an attic or along the joist in the basement, and just screw thru the box into the joist.

I'm sure I am not the first person to think of this, and I really don't feel like jumping thru the hoops to get an electrical product on the market, so the idea is all yours!


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Plausible??? We're not wiring up a golf cart or a speaker system:no:

And you're thinking of a good use for them on solid wire?:001_huh:


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

76nemo said:


> Plausible??? We're not wiring up a golf cart or a speaker system:no:


 So what? I've used scotchloks to wire up thousands of cove lights without a single issue. I've also used them when splicing into wires in a trough that are too tight to cut and splice the normal way, they are fully rated for that duty.


> And you're thinking of a good use for them on solid wire?:001_huh:


That model tap is there as an example, you can use any type your little heart desires. 

My question is about the validity of a box that will accept an uncut cable.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

hack .


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I think it's a very good idea that would sell very well in america (to hacks)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

You're a day late and a dollar short.


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## Selectric (Aug 18, 2009)

An old work box would work for this. Just take off one of the sides and take your dikes and snip the box so that the cable opening is now a slot.

Where's my money.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Selectric said:


> An old work box would work for this. Just take off one of the sides and take your dikes and snip the box so that the cable opening is now a slot.
> 
> Where's my money.


 you lost me


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Selectric said:


> An old work box would work for this. Just take off one of the sides and take your dikes and snip the box so that the cable opening is now a slot.
> 
> Where's my money.


Not much room to work in the back of that box, nor would it pass inspection.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> You're a day late and a dollar short.


I'm not seeing how those would work without breaking the cable.

Are those even allowed to be used in a house?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

interlock, I am confused. Where did you get the picture of this product if it doesn't already exist?


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> interlock, I am confused. Where did you get the picture of this product if it doesn't already exist?


The picture is just 3M Scotchlock taps, I'm surprised that you've never seen these before Dennis.

The product I am talking about is a box that will allow you to insert a cable and clamp it without cutting it. 

Think about a 4" square box with a romex coming straight thru the middle with a connector holding it on each side. Then you cut the sheath off and tap into each conductor with a tap of your choice. Pop the cover on the box and you're done.

Up til now, the only way to splice into a cable with no slack is to use two boxes and a jumper in between.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I think it would be hard to tap the conductors with no slack. I usually cut the cable and then install 2 boxes with a piece between them. It's not that hard. 

Now if you had something like the outdoor low voltage connectors that just snapped on that would be nice but I am not sure I would trust them.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Interlock said:


> The picture is just 3M Scotchlock taps, I'm surprised that you've never seen these before Dennis.
> 
> The product I am talking about is a box that will allow you to insert a cable and clamp it without cutting it.
> 
> ...


 


"Up til now, the only way to splice into a cable with no slack is to use two boxes and a jumper in between. "



................and I think that's for a darned good reason. Those connectors on building wire? No thank you, not with my name tied to it.

Any reason you just don't promote a flying butt splice? Again, this isn't a golf cart.


Not busting your chops, don't take me wrong, just thought you were looking for "agree's" or "disagree's".


Disagree.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Are the taps shown in the OP UL listed for 277? 120v? Even for AC?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

who cares. hacky wacky and tacky.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wildleg said:


> who cares. hacky wacky and tacky.



Tacky only if you slobbered Scotchkote all over 'em. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Tacky only if you slobbered Scotchkote all over 'em. :laughing:


Only if you use a spoon instead of the brush


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

480sparky said:


> You're a day late and a dollar short.


you beat me to it, I keep a couple of those on me, there rated for splicing with no box, I've only used one once. They make me nervous.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

with all the crazy sheeit homeowners plug in until something smokes, why you gonna stake your livlihood on some crackhead splice like that ?


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

76nemo said:


> Those connectors on building wire? No thank you, not with my name tied to it.


 Once again, you could use the connectors of your choice, I just gave examples. The issue is the box.

BTW, why do you think 3M, who makes some of the best wire nuts, doesn't make a good tap?


> Disagree.


You seem to be disagreeing on the tap connector. You haven't mentioned the box, which is the whole point of the thread.

I don't know how to change your focus.


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

I use 3M 567's all the time for devicing long runs of 4000 and 6000 Wiremold in labs/cleanrooms - but only with stranded THHN.Are they approved for solid wire?


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Are the taps shown in the OP UL listed for 277? 120v? Even for AC?


*Agency Approvals*: UL and CSA
*Maximum Recommended Voltage Rating*: 600 Volt


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

wildleg said:


> with all the crazy sheeit homeowners plug in until something smokes, why you gonna stake your livlihood on some crackhead splice like that ?


Again, this is someone talking about the type of connector and not the box idea itself. I give up...


I'm not following what you're talking about when you say that you're stake your livelihood on a crackhead splice?? Are you trying to say that using an approved 3M connector will risk your livelihood?? If you're that worried, it's time to find a new trade.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

ibuzzard said:


> I use 3M 567's all the time for devicing long runs of 4000 and 6000 Wiremold in labs/cleanrooms - but only with stranded THHN.Are they approved for solid wire?


I have used the taps on hundreds of feet of cove lighting. Instead of cutting and splicing in each 4' section I just pulled THHN straight thru and taped into it, it worked perfectly. I've seen this done before, I'm surprised that these other guys haven't seen the Scotchlok taps before.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Interlock said:


> Again, this is someone talking about the type of connector and not the box idea itself. I give up...
> 
> 
> I'm not following what you're talking about when you say that you're stake your livelihood on a crackhead splice?? Are you trying to say that using an approved 3M connector will risk your livelihood?? If you're that worried, it's time to find a new trade.


I have a better idea: you find a new trade. while you're at it, try keeping one screen name for more than a week.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

wildleg said:


> I have a better idea: you find a new trade. while you're at it, try keeping one screen name for more than a week.


Why would I find a new trade? What is wrong with trying to think outside the box and possibly find a new, better product? Just because you don't like the idea, it doesn't mean you have to bash me. And I have not even been here for a week.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you started it. and you can quit the BS "I been here a week" crap too.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

wildleg said:


> you started it. and you can quit the BS "I been here a week" crap too.


I started WHAT? You made comments about how using the connectors could risk your livelihood, then I asked you to confirm what you said (because it makes no sense whatsoever). Then you told me to find a new trade? What the hell is that about? I don't know who you think I am, but you are really acting like an ass.

My questions still stand.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

All you'd need is a box with a hinged back....done.

That coupled with a proper, reliability proven splice tap and I'd roll with it. It would have saved me hours in the past vs the old 2 boxes and a jumper trick.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

gilbequick said:


> All you'd need is a box with a hinged back....done.


And some way to get the cable into some type of clamps on each side.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You're a day late and a dollar short.


These are the first things I thought of when reading OP's post, I have a box of these somewhere. They are usually common in modular homes. Dad and I usually replace those connectors with JBs when doing a new modular home. We have only used them on our Christmas display. :santa: They work fine with both stranded and solid with wire sizes of #18-#12:thumbsup:.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Interlock said:


> Once again, you could use the connectors of your choice, I just gave examples. The issue is the box.
> 
> BTW, why do you think 3M, who makes some of the best wire nuts, doesn't make a good tap?
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, my focus was on the couple. I obviously read right by your point of box because I can't fathom the splice with that type of coupler.

Sorry man, I ran my mouth off topic.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> These are the first things I thought of when reading OP's post, I have a box of these somewhere. They are usually common in modular homes.


Are they legal to use in normal houses? If so, I'll pick some up.

Are they made in a t-tap type configuration?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

If you know you have to splice in an attic, take two boxes with you, two blanks, two ground screws, enough wire nuts, some staples with you when you go in there. It's not really a tough task, I keep some of those inline splices and some of those tyco's nms taps with me all the time.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

76nemo said:


> Sorry, my focus was on the couple. I obviously read right by your point of box because I can't fathom the splice with that type of coupler.
> 
> Sorry man, I ran my mouth off topic.


Cool, I appreciate your post.

FWIW, those Scotchlok taps are made by 3M and UL listed for up to 600V. I've used them in commercial applications with great success.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Interlock said:


> Again, this is someone talking about the type of connector and not the box idea itself. I give up...
> 
> 
> I'm not following what you're talking about when you say that you're stake your livelihood on a crackhead splice?? Are you trying to say that using an approved 3M connector will risk your livelihood?? If you're that worried, it's time to find a new trade.


 
Sorry Interlock, I jacked the thread


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

76nemo said:


> Sorry Interlock, I jacked the thread


Don't worry, I still like you. You haven't degraded to attacking me personally because you didn't like my idea :thumbsup:


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Interlock said:


> Are they legal to use in normal houses? If so, I'll pick some up.
> 
> Are they made in a t-tap type configuration?


Not that I know of, but they can definitely simplify the 2 boxes with a jumper deal...:thumbsup:


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> Not that I know of, but they can definitely simplify the 2 boxes with a jumper deal...:thumbsup:


How is that?


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Interlock said:


> How is that?


I can think of 2 ways right now, 

1. Use these connectors in the attic, and cut the feeder, and use the connectors and send each wire down to the new outlet.
2. only use one box in the attic, one to the new outlet, and use the connector to extend one end of the wire to avoid the second box.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> I can think of 2 ways right now,
> 
> 1. Use these connectors in the attic, and cut the feeder, and use the connectors and send each wire down to the new outlet.
> 2. only use one box in the attic, one to the new outlet, and use the connector to extend one end of the wire to avoid the second box.


I am assuming the connectors are expensive so I'm not sure if it would be ideal to use them.

My box idea would only be a buck more than a normal box, if that :thumbsup:


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

im not sure how much they cost, I got all of mine for free...


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Interlock said:


> Don't worry, I still like you. You haven't degraded to attacking me personally because you didn't like my idea :thumbsup:


 
I'm not like that at all. That's just ignorant. I like a forum that's useful and informant, not a bunch of old hags pizzing and moaning.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> im not sure how much they cost, I got all of mine for free...


So play like Obama and _spread the wealth_ :thumbup::thumbup:


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Interlock said:


> So play like Obama and _spread the wealth_ :thumbup::thumbup:


If I find them, Ill send you a few. I remember dad throwing a bunch of them away the other day...


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Interlock said:


> Once again, you could use the connectors of your choice, I just gave examples. The issue is the box.
> 
> BTW, why do you think 3M, who makes some of the best wire nuts, doesn't make a good tap?
> 
> ...


I would like to know how your j-box will comply with the 6" to splice from back of box requirement. the way you are referring to your idea, it doesn't sound like you have covered that. or were you thinking of getting a deferral from the code board?

That through, which wire nuts that 3M make do you call the best? Scotchlocs? IMO they rate right along with those pictures you posted. :banThe worst.)


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

JohnR said:


> I would like to know how your j-box will comply with the 6" to splice from back of box requirement. the way you are referring to your idea, it doesn't sound like you have covered that. or were you thinking of getting a deferral from the code board?


 We'll make the box 12 1/4" long. How's that sound?


> That through, which wire nuts that 3M make do you call the best?


Nothing compares to the wire nuts attached below.



> Scotchlocs? IMO they rate right along with those pictures you posted. :banThe worst.)


 You seem very competitive, like you're out to get me. Why can't this be a civil discussion instead of a penis measuring contest?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

"You seem very competitive, like you're out to get me. Why can't this be a civil discussion instead of a penis measuring contest?"



Because I'd lose you jerk:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I think it's a interesting idea. I just don't see myself carrying one around in case I needed it. How about something like a Wago but in a Tee configuration?


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

I really don't see this situation coming up enough for the industry to really NEED it. Also, many actual hacks would probably try to get away with it at every opportunity if it were available...meaning in a new construction application not just remodels, cuz how many inspectors you meet that go into an attic or crawl? Imagine what would happen if these were sold at Home Depot!......The two box method takes a tad bit more time but not to the point that it's that much of a hassle.....


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> I think it's a interesting idea. I just don't see myself carrying one around in case I needed it. How about something like a Wago but in a Tee configuration?


That WOULD work! A T-tap wago would allow you to use a normal box and just cut the cable and feed it in from each side.

Now I have to kill you for coming up with a competing idea. :whistling2::whistling2:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Interlock said:


> And some way to get the cable into some type of clamps on each side.


 

The same NM clamps that are in the junction box of a HALO H7ict


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Interlock said:


> That WOULD work! A T-tap wago would allow you to use a normal box and just cut the cable and feed it in from each side.
> 
> Now I have to kill you for coming up with a competing idea. :whistling2::whistling2:


That wouldn't work. If your romex has no slack for a proper splice, then how is a t-tap wago gonna help. You're basically thinking of splicing a pull through conductor and then tapping of of it. That splice needs to be outside the box.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> That wouldn't work. If your romex has no slack for a proper splice, then how is a t-tap wago gonna help.


 Sure it would work. A normal splice requires you to fold the conductors up next to each other for a bit, which you can't do when there is no slack. The T-tap Wago that nitro 71 came up with would have an entry point on opposing sides (like a butt splice). You cut the cable and insert it into each side of a 4" square box and then insert each side of the wire into the T-tap Wago. The Wago also has a third port for the T-tap in which you connect the wires going to your new receptacle.

That nitro71 guy is gonna put me out of business :surrender:


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The same NM clamps that are in the junction box of a HALO H7ict


Are you talking about the clamps that you just push the romex under and it grabs, basically just a piece of metal acting like a flapper, similar to a plastic box clamp?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Interlock said:


> Are you talking about the clamps that you just push the romex under and it grabs, basically just a piece of metal acting like a flapper, similar to a plastic box clamp?


 


No, you would have to cut the cable for those to work, these you slide the NM in edge first. You could one connector on each side of a 4" square, lay a piece of unbroken NM accross both connectors, push down, and put on your taps. Then install cover


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## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

Interlock said:


> We'll make the box 12 1/4" long. How's that sound?



Um... really bad. :whistling2:


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

I see what you're saying. We still have to get around the conductor length, altho since we are not breaking the conductor, where would we have to measure from? Since there is no outlet, we don't have to worry about the 3" outside the opening rule, correct? So all we have to do is consider the 6" from the point where it emerges rule, and if we measure from the point which it enters to the point that it leaves, we would only need a 6" box.

Hmmmmm.


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## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

Interlock said:


> I see what you're saying. We still have to get around the conductor length, altho since we are not breaking the conductor, where would we have to measure from? Since there is no outlet, we don't have to worry about the 3" outside the opening rule, correct? So all we have to do is consider the 6" from the point where it emerges rule, and if we measure from the point which it enters to the point that it leaves, we would only need a 6" box.
> 
> Hmmmmm.


You have no outlet, you aren't going to break the conductor, but you still have a splice. 300.14 (first sentence) looks strait forward to me.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Fredman said:


> You have no outlet, you aren't going to break the conductor, but you still have a splice. 300.14 (first sentence) looks strait forward to me.


I don't know if it's as straight forward as you say. It only specifies one side, where the conductor is to be measured FROM, it doesn't say where it needs to be measured TO. In a normal situation you would assume that the measurement is TO the end of the wire. But when the wire goes unbroken, that needs clarification. 

This is ground breaking stuff here, don't piss in my cornflakes. One day I'll be famous and you'll wish you jumped in on the ground floor.


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## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

Interlock said:


> I don't know if it's as straight forward as you say. It only specifies one side, where the conductor is to be measured FROM, it doesn't say where it needs to be measured TO. In a normal situation you would assume that the measurement is TO the end of the wire. But when the wire goes unbroken, that needs clarification.
> 
> This is ground breaking stuff here, don't piss in my cornflakes. One day I'll be famous and you'll wish you jumped in on the ground floor.


ground breaking... famous....:blink: 

Maybe to us. 
















No scratch that. 

:laughing:


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Fredman said:


> ground breaking... famous....:blink:
> 
> Maybe to us.
> 
> ...


:furious::furious::furious:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Fredman said:


> You have no outlet, you aren't going to break the conductor, but you still have a splice. 300.14 (first sentence) looks strait forward to me.


 



Not so straight forward

1) 300.14 is for the length of free conductors, which these are not, they "pass thru"
2) His conductors meet the exception of 300.14 due to the fact they are not being spliced, they are bing tapped.
3) the "free conductor" that he attaches to this tap would have to comply with 300.14

Lets see you tap 1000mcm in a trough and leave "slack" to comply with 300.14


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## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Not so straight forward
> 
> 1) 300.14 is for the length of free conductors, which these are not, they "pass thru"
> 2) His conductors meet the exception of 300.14 due to the fact they are not being spliced, they are bing tapped.
> ...



I interpret "passing through" as meaning the conductor is not spliced or tapped.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Fredman said:


> I interpret "passing through" as meaning the conductor is not spliced or tapped.


 


Iguess it's open to interprtation, but if what you say is true, you would have to leave 6" of "slack" in a 1000MCM being tapped in a trough. His is only a miniature version of the same thing


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## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

Interlock said:


> :furious::furious::furious:



It's all in good fun. Best O luck :thumbsup:


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Fredman said:


> It's all in good fun. Best O luck :thumbsup:


I gave up on the idea long ago, now it's just a learning experience.

I still want to know if those modular home splices are completely legal to use and bury in a wall. Where could you get those? They seem like a good idea for when a ship auger bit cuts thru a cable :whistling2:


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