# picking up a "dropped ticket"



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

ddyoung said:


> Hi...My story isn't all that complicated. I went through apprenticeship in Tulsa Ok LU 584 back in the mid to late 80's. We went on strike when I was in my 4th yr and I "topped out" on the road. Duluth Mn was kind enough to let us attend classes and 584 and IBEW recognized that for our last yr. After the strike was over Tulsa was a no go for quite a few years (I moved up 5 spots in 2 yrs)... I tried to move my ticket a few times, but to no avail. That isn't an easy thing to pull off in most places. So I put my ticket "on ice" as they say, back in the early 90's...I Hated doing that.....I loved working union...I was proud of being an IBEW member...I was and am a very good electrician thanks in large part to the training I recieved through the IBEW....
> 
> I've tried at various times and in various places to "pick it back up" to no avail. Even though the IBEW has been aggressively organizing since the 90's in most places, because I was once a member I''ve been screwed.
> 
> Now I'm trying to move back home to northern Indiana as my parents are old and need help...i've still got 13 to 15 good years left and would love to finish in IBEW........is it something I need to give up on and let go,..or if not, how would one go about getting in one of the locals here...???



Give up on it , the union does not care about the individual person to them you are a rat use your training and make some money with your knowledge not your affiliation


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

I understand well the sometimes strong anti-union resentments that some tend to express. However an unfair experience I as an individual have had, it does not serve anyone's interest to ignore the benefit overall the IBEW has had on the industry as a whole and us personally as a result. I personally am aware of how the attitudes about some that have had to "drop their tickets" has developed over the years. There are some I'm sure that have "gamed" the system over the years by doing so...I assure you I am not one of those. I have always had the attitude that if the IBEW doesn't want me I will have to live with that...All I want is to be able to sign book 1 where I live....if there is no work I'll ride the bench or travel, my choice....If that is an unreasonable goal I'll leave it behind and forget about it....but I would like to try hard one more time before I give up on it....


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Have you talked with your local? Did you pay your dues all these years?


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

I have not talked to my home local in Tulsa Ok. I dont know what the point would be, because I've long since moved on with life and its highly unlikely I'd ever have a reason to go back there to live. I would have never left if we'd have not gone on strike, but that's life as they say...as I said in my first post, I intend to stay here in Indiana...family reasons...long story...but it is where I've lived the last 10 yrs and is where I'm from...I'm not going to live anywhere else. Like I said, I'd be willing to travel some, but I'll always live here.... and no, in order to keep ticket active I was told I'd have had to pay International portion plus death assessments..which I did for a while...but at the time I stopped I was living in Minnesota and working maintenance at a resort for 8 bucks an hr (a job I took cuz I didnt want to go Non Union), and I had a couple months in a row where the death assessments had my dues pretty high...I wish I had kept paying, but those were some desparately hard times for me and my wife...again a long story....


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

My local is fairly forgiving to guys who leave and then want to come back. 

Being that you want to join a different local than the one you left is really up to that local. It wouldn't hurt to ask. The worst thing that will happen is they will say no and you move on with your life.


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

Yes KG, I intend to try doing just that ...I have nothing to lose...but I have a feeling it won't be easy. I remember how militant some attitudes were, I hope that has changed over the years, and I don't wind up caught up in a lot of drama. There wasn't much I could have changed about my whole experience.. maybe a few things with hindsight, but when we came out of the other side of that strike there were only 5 signatory contractors out of 35 before the strike...I felt doomed to a life of travel....hard to do with a family...I did it for a few yrs... it sucked.. oh well If anyone has any advice on how best to handle it I'm all ears....


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Since it is the international office that is pushing organizing, you may want to talk to an international rep for your district. Either way it is an up hill battle. 

Good luck.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

My first thought would be to go back to your home local and talk to the BA.
You would be best to show up with or ask your BA if getting your OK license would help.
If you are trying to get into another local, you might dig up your old yellow ticket number and ask the BA or organizer at the local you want to join if they can do something for you.
It's a worthy endeavor, getting 10 or more years of a pension and decent health insurance could make a difference for you.
You also have to think about taking calls as an older electrician too.


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

cabletie said:


> Since it is the international office that is pushing organizing, you may want to talk to an international rep for your district. Either way it is an up hill battle.
> 
> Good luck.


This is an interesting idea ....I appreciate the feedback ..I'll be sure to look into this...

Thanks Cabletie ...I'm hoping to get someone with some "say" to "get" and care about what happened in my case...the "uphill" aspet I think merely stems from being a single individual problem, there is little incentive or pressure to "fix" this problem...I'm planning on pushing this alot harder this time though...don't know what the result will be, but the international rep is a good place to start..


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ampman said:


> Give up on it , the union does not care about the individual person to them you are a rat use your training and make some money with your knowledge not your affiliation


Let me guess?
You live near the I-4 corridor.


----------



## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

Seems odd that with the low rates of union participation that they would make it difficult for a willing, trained guy to join.


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

mitch65 said:


> Seems odd that with the low rates of union participation that they would make it difficult for a willing, trained guy to join.


Thats what I've thought for years.....some of the attitudes I've encountered would blow your mind.


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Let me guess?
> You live near the I-4 corridor.


Not for a million dollars on edit yes I would live in the corridor for a million dollars


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Move to Washington DC for a few years, you could get in here.


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

ddyoung said:


> Thats what I've thought for years.....some of the attitudes I've encountered would blow your mind.


I do not understand some members attitudes like you describe. I could understand members being pissed that a guy goes in and out all the time but given your circumstances I get why you had to leave.


----------



## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

kg7879 said:


> I do not understand some members attitudes like you describe. I could understand members being pissed that a guy goes in and out all the time but given your circumstances I get why you had to leave.


What your experiencing is the "Mob Mentality" at work. The best thing I have ever done is starting my own business. The harder your work the more you make. The IBEW is a great place to learn,but that's it !


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

ampman said:


> Give up on it , the union does not care about the individual person to them you are a rat use your training and make some money with your knowledge not your affiliation


How would you know? Do you have personal experience with the IBEW?



Spunk#7 said:


> What your experiencing is the "Mob Mentality" at work. The best thing I have ever done is starting my own business. The harder your work the more you make. The IBEW is a great place to learn,but that's it !


Purely an opinion.
Many guys like me would rather work for a pay check out of the local than run a business.
Besides, with the best training, why would the work be any different?


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> How would you know? Do you have personal experience with the IBEW
> 
> This is my opinion , don't be mad because it differs from yours


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

ampman said:


> John Valdes said:
> 
> 
> > How would you know? Do you have personal experience with the IBEW
> ...


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

John Valdes said:


> Purely an opinion.
> Many guys like me would rather work for a pay check out of the local than run a business.
> Besides, with the best training, why would the work be any different?


I agree with you for the most part, but the truth is in many locals they only get the big jobs so their is a lot of downtime and this is why a lot of guys go non union or start their own shop.

My local for the last ten years has been on average a six month local. Meaning you work your tail off for six months on a big project then you are laid off for six months. While the pay averages out, the members are at risk of being laid off longer because we only want the big jobs but we sure do complain about not getting all the jobs.

I personally think the IBEW needs a big dose of self awareness in many locals.


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> ampman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not mad. Just curious how you know these things if you have never been a member.
> ...


----------



## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

IBEW / Union.. Attitude: Brothers it starts at home.. It starts with you...
As for stealing the training ,_ btw The IBEW Provides The Best Electrical Industry Training in The World_ and then reneging on your sworn oath? Well That says it all doesnt it?
As for "coming back" there are rules in place and if you followed them its very easy to come back in , the first time.. #1. you needed to have taken a withdrawal. If you just quit paying your dues? You Quit.. You got your training, training that is valued in excess of $50,000.00 for free! Chances of dropping your yellow ticket in another mans local ? Pretty Slim, but a poster here said DC needs JW's badly and if you'll stick it out a few years and prove yourself, it could happen..Might the IO Rep assist you? Why? You are 50 years old and now all of a sudden you want back in? Reverse that.. Your Young wife leaves you for a better deal and decides 20+years and not the same as she was in her 20's and she wants back in , no hard feelings. She has decided it wasnt such a good deal after all , her future sucks, and wants to come back Home . What would your answer be? So I must ask you? What have you got to offer? No One Needs another Rope puller or even another EMT pipe bending wire puller. Have you been working Non-Union? Saved Nothing? Invested Nothing? Have No Health Care Insurance? No Pension? Look at it from all sides..
*Work was bad in Northern IL. in 1977* I left but I never left the Union.. I worked Coast to Coast and Border To Border : ) as we used to say and I did it for 8+ Years.. NEVER Dropped My Yellow Ticket .. I ran a lot of work or was at least the Foreman or General Foreman in 6 different states. My first question for you would be, prove to me you havent been a scab.. and maybe we can talk.. W-2's will be some get proof to start with..


----------



## Mtsparky911 (Jun 23, 2015)

They have no problem organizing new members from the non union tho. Smh


----------



## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Yes they are, and they have been for around .......30 years. They should be Only Selecting The CREAM.. The Very Best that the non-union has to offer.. TTBOMK "We" My home local , Never Took In / Signed Up , an entire shop and then gave away yellow tickets by the fist full.. Its an INSULT To Brothers who came in the RIGHT WAY and it can make our Union Tickets worth - less , and it also dilutes our employee pool .. There are too many , unanswered question here as well. Depending on what kind of Pension and Health Care program is at stake.., someone coming back in , after a long absence could be disproportionately compensated.. thats NOT Fair to the Brothers who did it right... As for organizing.....A young man has longevity to offer, though my contention has always been. Once NON-Union always Non-union..I have seen this in operation, at the first sign or a lack of steady work many of the previously non-union go right back to working Non-union , but now with better training and better skills. What did I and thousands of GOOD Brothers do? We made phone calls and put our tools in the truck a suitcase in the back and went and found a local with work.. BTDT!!! *1996 * work was bad in all of IL. I drove south signing books looking for a njob until I got to San Antonio Tx where I was given a job that as a JW paid what my home local was paying a 3rd year app. But I was working I was working legal and I was paying my dues and my pension and healthcare to some degree..


Mtsparky911 said:


> They have no problem organizing new members from the non union tho. Smh


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

Divecoz said:


> IBEW / Union.. Attitude: Brothers it starts at home.. It starts with you...
> As for stealing the training ,_ btw The IBEW Provides The Best Electrical Industry Training in The World_ and then reneging on your sworn oath? Well That says it all doesnt it?
> As for "coming back" there are rules in place and if you followed them its very easy to come back in , the first time.. #1. you needed to have taken a withdrawal. If you just quit paying your dues? You Quit.. You got your training, training that is valued in excess of $50,000.00 for free! Chances of dropping your yellow ticket in another mans local ? Pretty Slim, but a poster here said DC needs JW's badly and if you'll stick it out a few years and prove yourself, it could happen..Might the IO Rep assist you? Why? *You are 50 years old and now all of a sudden you want back in? Reverse that.. Your Young wife leaves you for a better deal and decides 20+years and not the same as she was in her 20's and she wants back in , no hard feelings. She has decided it wasnt such a good deal after all , her future sucks, and wants to come back Home .* What would your answer be? So I must ask you? What have you got to offer? No One Needs another Rope puller or even another EMT pipe bending wire puller. Have you been working Non-Union? Saved Nothing? Invested Nothing? Have No Health Care Insurance? No Pension? Look at it from all sides..
> *Work was bad in Northern IL. in 1977* I left but I never left the Union.. I worked Coast to Coast and Border To Border : ) as we used to say and I did it for 8+ Years.. NEVER Dropped My Yellow Ticket .. I ran a lot of work or was at least the Foreman or General Foreman in 6 different states. My first question for you would be, prove to me you havent been a scab.. and maybe we can talk.. W-2's will be some get proof to start with..


I wish I had seen this post earlier but I havent looked at this thread in a week or so....to answer some of your points...yes I did take a "withdrawal" .. I by the way am a lot more than a wire puller/pipe bender...I have held masters licenses in 3 differrent states, ran my own business, am currently a hospital electrician...I have extensive experence in and would feel totally compfortable on any residential commercial or industrial job

...your analogy about a younger wife doesn't fit AT ALL and is more than a little offensive...YOU had a home local to go back to ...I did not...for years mine was broken and limping...like I said in my opening posts, I moved up 5 spots in 2 yrs...........I'm also a religious person with a family and had kids at home...TRAVEL??? I did that for almost as long as you say you did, but the only difference is that I would have had to ALWAYS travel...MY family and myself was not willing to do that....I tried numerous times to come back, but to do that I would have had to go back to Tulsa...I DON'T live there anymore and havent for years and won't in the future...I couldn't if I wanted to..I want to sign book 1 where I live....simple as that ....if that isn't possible then ok..lets just be plain spoken about it...if that is the case then who left who?? I would say I did not vote for the strike...and I would also say I was ALWAYS willing to come back at any time if I could sign book 1 where I live...


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

We went on strike...I did not leave for 6 years...I travelled.....organizing going on all around me ALL THE TIME WHERE I LIVE....and you want to suggest that I am like a guy who just quit paying dues cuz things got a little slow?...wow...that is exactly the attitude that I butt up against any time I try to inquire about it ...I thought that maybe things had changed over some years for some but there it is....its obviously alive and kicking still...


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

oh and by the way Divecoz...the purpose behind organizing is to control "marketshare" .... NOT to select "the cream"as you say .. attitudes like yours are what has turned the IBEW into a "hiring hall" instead of a Union, and will ultimately be it's undoing if attitudes don't change...

But thanks for your replies, I got some answers from them...


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

Asking a person to put the IBEW first by asking them to travel while they have little kids at home is a stretch. Especially since most locals and especially the international do not have their crap together.

The biggest thing the IBEW is doing is wrong is being stuck in the old mentality that all they need to do is control the manpower. The IBEW needs to sell itself as a valuable partner to the contractors and the industry.

Our attitude shouldn't be us vs the contractors. 

The IBEW mission statement should be to provide the most educated, trained and efficient workforce in the industry.


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

kg7879 said:


> Asking a person to put the IBEW first by *asking them to travel while they have little kids at home is a stretch. *Especially since most locals and especially the international do not have their crap together.
> 
> The biggest thing the IBEW is doing is wrong is being stuck in the old mentality that all they need to do is control the manpower. The IBEW needs to sell itself as a valuable partner to the contractors and the industry.
> 
> ...


....and in my case, to travel PERMANENTLY ..... 

.


----------



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

ddyoung said:


> ....and in my case, to travel PERMANENTLY .....
> 
> .


What is the benefit to that? To stanby and hope for a decent project one day? 
Id rather just go to a normal job where you dont need to play these games, like waiting your turn to have a job.....
Thats just me, i guess


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

Nac...in my case the criticism aimed at me by earlier posts that I should have "stuck it out and travelled" I was pointing out wasn't fair. If all that I was facing was a "work slowdown" in my home local, I would have absolutely traveled until I could have returned to working in my home local....but that is not what happened in my case. We went on strike. After the strike there were 5 signatory contractors out of 35 before the strike....on book one for 2 yrs I moved up 5 spots! THAT is not a work slowdown. THAT for me meant belonging to what was for years a travelling local. So I took a withdrawal. 

...but now..I would like to come back (and would have liked to have come back at any point since the strike) if at all possible...I hated taking the withdrawal...I was proud of my Union affiliation and training...


----------



## danhasenauer (Jun 10, 2009)

Talk to the Organizer in the Local you are looking to sign Book 1 in. My Local is very aggressive in recruiting new members as well as taking back former members who had to leave for personal and/or family financial reasons. Apprenticeship papers are recognized whether they are JATC or ABC, as long as they are State DOL recognized programs. Guys without papers are put into the CE/CW program at an appropriate level and then schooled further to assist them in eventually reaching JW, although it can be a lot longer process than an Apprenticeship. The noobs and younger guys in the CE/CW program sometimes get admitted into an Apprenticeship program after demonstrating their desire and ability to make it through the program. Some former JW's are brought back as CE-3's for 6 months of "probation" before they get their JW card back. We don't want only the best jobs here, we want the whole market! Having different classifications and corresponding labor rates has allowed our NECA shops to bid very competitively against non-Union EC's and get a lot of work that we had previously labor-priced ourselves out of (big-box stores, strip malls, private sector office buildings, etc.). We have had a "no-strike" clause in our contract for a lot of years, but we have also always respected another Trade's picket line on any sites we are on. Contact them and talk to them. Good luck!


----------



## danhasenauer (Jun 10, 2009)

ampman said:


> John Valdes said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing in there that says its a fact ,opinion only, now John don't get bent out of shape because you can't get everyone to think like you that is a liberal trait accept the fact that your opinion is not like everyone's .
> ...


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

Ahhh finally...I was hoping when I registered to post here that I'd find someone with a perspective of sanity and reason...of course I will do exactly that. Thanks for posting that Dan, I really do appreciate it. I actually have letters of recommendation and introduction papers from apprenticeship and from when I was travelling as a JW. I will take those with me when I visit the Organizer.

Also I am encouraged to hear the attitude of competition and gaining back marketshare. It's the only path forward for us. It's a winnable game for the IBEW. I would love to be back in it. You are also right about committed non-union never been in it perspectives. They haven't got a clue...a guy like me probably really puzzles them...


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

danhasenauer said:


> Talk to the Organizer in the Local you are looking to sign Book 1 in. My Local is very aggressive in recruiting new members as well as taking back former members who had to leave for personal and/or family financial reasons. Apprenticeship papers are recognized whether they are JATC or ABC, as long as they are State DOL recognized programs. Guys without papers are put into the CE/CW program at an appropriate level and then schooled further to assist them in eventually reaching JW, although it can be a lot longer process than an Apprenticeship. The noobs and younger guys in the CE/CW program sometimes get admitted into an Apprenticeship program after demonstrating their desire and ability to make it through the program. Some former JW's are brought back as CE-3's for 6 months of "probation" before they get their JW card back. We don't want only the best jobs here, we want the whole market! Having different classifications and corresponding labor rates has allowed our NECA shops to bid very competitively against non-Union EC's and get a lot of work that we had previously labor-priced ourselves out of (big-box stores, strip malls, private sector office buildings, etc.). We have had a "no-strike" clause in our contract for a lot of years, but we have also always respected another Trade's picket line on any sites we are on. Contact them and talk to them. Good luck!



I just got through talking to the organizer in the local in the jurisdiction where I'll be living for the next 15 yrs or more, ..(until I retire) and it is a no go... I was told I can work off book 2 If I activate my ticket out of Tulsa Ok local 584 but moving it or coming in at any level is an emphatic NO...He also told me that jamming it in after working as a traveler for any length of time will be virtually impossible so basically unless I'm willing to move back to Tulsa I'll never sign book 1 anywhere much less where I live...

so....nothing's changed....they are taking guys in that have never gone through apprenticeship or had any formal training...hundreds of them...who don't have the roots in that area that I do...I'm from there ..graduated high school there ...got married there ...trying to move back there is going to have to be done by working non-union or landing a maintenance job of some sort...unfortunately...


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

ddyoung said:


> I just got through talking to the organizer in the local in the jurisdiction where I'll be living for the next 15 yrs or more, ..(until I retire) and it is a no go... I was told I can work off book 2 If I activate my ticket out of Tulsa Ok local 584 but moving it or coming in at any level is an emphatic NO...He also told me that jamming it in after working as a traveler for any length of time will be virtually impossible so basically unless I'm willing to move back to Tulsa I'll never sign book 1 anywhere much less where I live... so....nothing's changed....they are taking guys in that have never gone through apprenticeship or had any formal training...hundreds of them...who don't have the roots in that area that I do...I'm from there ..graduated high school there ...got married there ...trying to move back there is going to have to be done by working non-union or landing a maintenance job of some sort...unfortunately...


Sorry to hear that. I don't understand why so many locals are so different. We just hired a guy that did his apprenticeship through Local 25 many years ago and is on book 1 at our local. He had also worked non-union for quite a while. Pretty close to your situation.


----------



## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

The Ba's do whatever they want! Cronyism,nepotism,ethnic background,etc. are the main stepping stones to anything in the IBEW.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Sorry to hear that also. 

I don't understand why they make it so difficult. I don't go to meetings, but when I did, they were always swearing in someone new to our "B" program. Guys with no past connections and no family connections. Just guys who are going to be in this trade for their careers and have proven that by their experience. That is how I got in. 

How is work in your area. That has a lot to do with it also. Our hall has been a walk through all summer. The job I am on has four travelers.


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

cabletie said:


> Sorry to hear that also.
> 
> I don't understand why they make it so difficult. I don't go to meetings, but when I did, they were always swearing in someone new to our "B" program. Guys with no past connections and no family connections. Just guys who are going to be in this trade for their careers and have proven that by their experience. That is how I got in.
> 
> How is work in your area. That has a lot to do with it also. Our hall has been a walk through all summer. The job I am on has four travelers.


It's very busy here... all the locals up here in northern Indiana are deep into book 2 so I'm told. My only option is to take a freaking road trip to Oklahoma, activate my ticket (if I can..who knows what obstacles await me there!) ..go back home to northern Indiana and then sign book 2 everywhere I can, and ride the book 2 horse til he bucks me off....It's my only option I think....it sucks...it's not fair...but "life isn't always fair" my Dad use to say


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

....or find the largest non-union contractor up there and go to work for them....

..........orrrr go on my own ....again....


----------



## ddyoung (Sep 15, 2012)

thought I'd give an update... I activated my ticket after all these years...have decided to work off book 2 where I live as much as I can and either hit the road for "traveling vacation" or do some A/C changeouts and hvac stuff on side at home if we dont want to travel......I am once again a union electrician and it is a wonderful feeling and I am thrilled to be back ...can't wait to sign some books and give notice at hospital where I am currently employed....


----------

