# tricks for reattaching house knob / wireholder?



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

around here, most houses have the utility tie-off at a screw-type porcelain wireholder like THIS.
























Usually the drop is attached a twisty thing like THIS, called a "guy wrap."










The knobs sometimes pull out -- weight from a tree limb, usually -- and more often than not, because they didn't use the ones with the 4" lag screw. I get calls regularly to reattach. Sometimes, there's obviously more work required (bad cable, pulled down cable, etc) which triggers a new riser, or more, with inspection etc, and a substantial price tag. Other times, a simple reattachment will suffice -- except I haven't figured out a reasonable way to do that yet without involving the POCO. 

I'm contemplating using a new clevis or bolt-on type insulator like THIS










that can be disassembled, bracket bolted to the wall with a long lag bolt, insulator inserted into the loop end of the guy wrap, and reassembled/attached. I can rig up something with rope/block to take the weight up off the drop for the reattachment. What I haven't figured out is how to get the old knob out of the loop. I can probably break the insulator somehow, but there's usually a steel thing inside, and it's at the top of a ladder, etc. 

I'm assuming someone else has cracked this nut. Any tricks or ideas?

THX.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

there's a million pole mount/wall mount types of insulators, lag and throughbolt, and assorted hardware. look through some catalogs.

here's a link to one, maybe you'll find something in there:

http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/catalogs/pole-line/05-plh.pdf


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Just unwrap the tie wire and use a wedge clamp. They do make screw type insulaters with longer lags. Look better and cheaper.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

wildleg said:


> there's a million pole mount/wall mount types of insulators, lag and throughbolt, and assorted hardware. look through some catalogs.
> 
> here's a link to one, maybe you'll find something in there:
> 
> http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/catalogs/pole-line/05-plh.pdf


The new/replacement hardware isn't so much the problem, seems to me. It's getting the old one out of the guy wrap without having to undo the guy wrap.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Just unwrap the tie wire and use a wedge clamp. They do make screw type insulaters with longer lags. Look better and cheaper.


I'll try it. Seemed like unwrapping the tie wire could be a PITA. 

The insulators I usually use have 4" lags. Longest I can find, and only one distributor around here carries them.


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## Buzz1067 (Dec 13, 2016)

Those wrap ties are called preforms. If you look at the very end, you'll see they are two different lengths. Unwrap the 4 or 5 strands that are the same all the way back to the house knob and it will come off. Put the new knob on and wrap the preform back on. Just get a New screw knob, take a straight blade screwdriver and hammer to start new hole and screw in with screwdriver.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Honestly that picture you have look like it has a kotter key to remove the insulator.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Buzz1067 said:


> *Those wrap ties are called preforms.* If you look at the very end, you'll see they are two different lengths. Unwrap the 4 or 5 strands that are the same all the way back to the house knob and it will come off. Put the new knob on and wrap the preform back on. Just get a New screw knob, take a straight blade screwdriver and hammer to start new hole and screw in with screwdriver.


We call them a preformed dead end. Absolutley correct about how one side is longer that the other. Start with the shorter side lined up at the painted mark and it will wrap right back on.

If you want to hold the drop up hands free, get a Howe Wire Tool http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/individual-hooks-and-blocks/howe-wire-tool and a short piece of rope using a couple of half hitches on the drop. (I don't like using grips on a live drop) 
Then you have both hands free to work on the preform.


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## lightman (Oct 14, 2015)

Unwrap half of the preform, remove the old insulator, reuse it or install a new one, pull the service back up to where you can work the preform back into the insulator and wrap it back. A skinning knife blade is good to start with when unwrapping the preform. A cheap tiedown like you use on your ladder rack makes a pretty good tool to hold or pull the service with. Hook the short end in the new wire holder and use a series of half hitches on the service wire. Watch for bare wire and cracked insulation on the service. It weather cracks where it makes its final wrap around the neutral. Handle it as little as possible!

Before I retired we started using a Hubbell insulator made of dense polymer that you could screw in with a cordless drill. Each one came with a little plastic bit.

Signal1 is correct, they are called preforms or dead ends. The insulator is usually called a house knob.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

GREAT. Thanks for all the good suggestions.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

I remember seeing the Howe Wire Tool in use some years ago by one of the utility linemen around here, but couldn't describe it at a supplier well enough. THX.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

I maintained a rental home that had it's service drop torn off the house four times by limbs off their property.

Because the drop was so well attached, the roof had to be replaced twice, at the owners expense.

After #3 I used a 2" rigid coupling, just above the roof (yes a Code violation).

Well after #4 the service drop was laying on the ground but the coupling had just broke.
Which made for an easy fix.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

6 ft piece of 14-2 romex and some staples and you won't need to ask us again for another 12 yrs.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> 6 ft piece of 14-2 romex and some staples and you won't need to ask us again for another 12 yrs.


And I hear that's perfectly acceptable in rural NY, Pennsylvania and Vermont. At least it looks that way from my travels.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

If you have decent access from the attic space, it can be a very satisfying feeling using the insulator with the long 3/8" or 1/2" threaded rod mount (instead of wood lag thread) and using 2-3 blank 1900 covers with the 1/2" KO stamped in them, some heavy pattern washers, a lock washer and nylock. You'll rip the entire fascia board off before that pulls out again.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

drewsserviceco said:


> If you have decent access from the attic space, it can be a very satisfying feeling using the insulator with the long 3/8" or 1/2" threaded rod mount (instead of wood lag thread) and using 2-3 blank 1900 covers with the 1/2" KO stamped in them, some heavy pattern washers, a lock washer and nylock. You'll rip the entire fascia board off before that pulls out again.


Yup 'mechanically' secure.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

drewsserviceco said:


> If you have decent access from the attic space, it can be a very satisfying feeling using the insulator with the long 3/8" or 1/2" threaded rod mount (instead of wood lag thread) and using 2-3 blank 1900 covers with the 1/2" KO stamped in them, some heavy pattern washers, a lock washer and nylock. You'll rip the entire fascia board off before that pulls out again.


Sounds good. Only it adds another $150 to the job.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Sounds good. Only it adds another $150 to the job.


I can't see that taking more than an hour to install, so while it will add billable time if this is a repeat job it's best to do it right for the last time than be back again.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

drewsserviceco said:


> If you have decent access from the attic space, it can be a very satisfying feeling using the insulator with the long 3/8" or 1/2" threaded rod mount (instead of wood lag thread) and using 2-3 blank 1900 covers with the 1/2" KO stamped in them, some heavy pattern washers, a lock washer and nylock. You'll rip the entire fascia board off before that pulls out again.


I like it! Now for me, this is the kind of thing I save strut scraps for, I'd use that instead of the covers. I like to think that if anything ever does happen it doesn't look like I improvised and cut a corner. 

Simpson (the joist hanger manufacturer) makes a line of products called DTT that are available at the big box stores etc. that might work in a lot of situations, just a few bucks and might save you some time depending on the structure and what's in stock local to you. 




























etc


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

[OP] this is a ghetto rental. Property manager didn't like my $250 quote to reattach using a new long lag knob and preform, removing old knob. My guess is they found somebody for $100 to quick throw in a new knob and a wedge clamp, leaving the old knob as it was on the preform..


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

mikewillnot said:


> [OP] this is a ghetto rental. Property manager didn't like my $250 quote to reattach using a new long lag knob and preform, removing old knob. My guess is they found somebody for $100 to quick throw in a new knob and a wedge clamp, leaving the old knob as it was on the preform..


If he got it done for $100, he may call back.


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## Gnome (Dec 25, 2013)

drewsserviceco said:


> If you have decent access from the attic space, it can be a very satisfying feeling using the insulator with the long 3/8" or 1/2" threaded rod mount (instead of wood lag thread) and using 2-3 blank 1900 covers with the 1/2" KO stamped in them, some heavy pattern washers, a lock washer and nylock. You'll rip the entire fascia board off before that pulls out again.


Something similar is the minimum requirement here; we aren't allowed to use lag bolt Emily knobs for services; they have to be through bolted.


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