# Power pole



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Pull out your Wiremold catalogue.

$$$$

Charge Large.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Good call 

We had inspection on this store today and we walked inn to find those 2 coolers powered with extension cords and duct tape , inspector was not happy to see that 


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

telsa said:


> Pull out your Wiremold catalogue.
> 
> $$$$
> 
> Charge Large.


Ditto


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Don't forget that you're going to have to run MC -- probably 12-3 -- from some over the grid j-box which may be near or far -- or may require you to go all the way back to the panel.

For these puppies are essentially dedicated loads, reefers.

Such work will be ladder work -- which proceeds at about 1/8th of normal speed -- with all the merchandise in the way. Yes, the joint is CLOGGED... especially back near the panel... purge yourself of any positive thoughts.

Charge Large.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

That looks like you'll need longer than the standard 10' power pole, I always get high prices and long lead times for special orders. You could just run rigid down to a box, with a 18" nipple and a floor flange below the box. It will look fine, it will be reasonable, and you could be done tomorrow.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Wiremold has a huge warehouse just over the Sierras.

I never Value Engineer for Retail Selling spaces.

Basic GRC is unacceptable -- and would require a painter -- primer coat -- color coats -- etc.

I always blame the $$$$ on the building inspector.

I don't give the customer options. That would be Bad Salesmanship.

BTW, have you seen the profit margins on Rockstar ?

Weep not.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes we ran dedicated MC circuits to 9 coolers that are on the back wall already to the panel , these are actually closer 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

splatz said:


> That looks like you'll need longer than the standard 10' power pole, I always get high prices and long lead times for special orders. You could just run rigid down to a box, with a 18" nipple and a floor flange below the box. It will look fine, it will be reasonable, and you could be done tomorrow.




And support the rigid how? Ceiling is 14’ in this area.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

WronGun said:


> And support the rigid how? Ceiling is 14’ in this area.


You could support it at the floor with a floor flange, an 18" nipple up into the bottom of the box. At the top, strap the pipe to a piece of strut clamped from truss to truss. You can go 20' vertically between supports with RMC.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> And support the rigid how? Ceiling is 14’ in this area.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Splatz have one good idea and this is my other idea is use the wiremold power pole but how fast ya can order that depending on where you deal with supplier.,

if not super circital then other option which I done few time is run RMC but get a pair of TB fittings ( one at top and one at bottom about half meter away from top and bottom ) and put a 1900 box on the back of TB fitting and go from there. 

the reason why I used the TB fitting due the TB fitting is stronger so it can hold the weight of RMC pretty nice plus I dont have to worry about the 1900 get off square once you land the RMC above the 1900. 

so that is the two options that is legit per NEC codes


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Plan A: Purchase off-the-shelf 12 footer -- and support it from below with wood craft... say a hunk of 2x4 painted black attached to one of the reefer displays with conventional hardware.

Plan B: Wiremold sells an Extender that takes you all the way to 14 feet.

Google is your friend.

Power poles can be re-located quite quickly. That's all important to a retailer. They just never let things stay the way they are. Never.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

telsa said:


> Plan A: Purchase off-the-shelf 12 footer -- and support it from below with wood craft... say a hunk of 2x4 painted black attached to one of the reefer displays with conventional hardware.
> 
> Plan B: Wiremold sells an Extender that takes you all the way to 14 feet.
> 
> ...




Gotta ask , what’s a reefer display ? 

I googled it ..and according to google , there are no reefer displays in the photo ..... unfortunately...


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

telsa said:


> Plan A: Purchase off-the-shelf 12 footer -- and support it from below with wood craft... say a hunk of 2x4 painted black attached to one of the reefer displays with conventional hardware.
> 
> Telsa.,, are you aware if you do go that route some area they do not want to attached to the reefer units due some area they required to move the reefer units around to keep the floor clean ?,
> 
> ...


Reefer display aka small soda cooler with slider glass door.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Why not a pendant drop?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Helmut said:


> Why not a pendant drop?


I'd think that's the quickest easiest way to go but might look a little janky to customers like an extension cord dangling through the drop ceiling, especially if you can't keep it hanging dead plumb.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

What kind of power pole? The Wiremold kind, of course. Run a 12-3 to feed it and split the tab on a spec grade receptacle.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

splatz said:


> You could support it at the floor with a floor flange, an 18" nipple up into the bottom of the box. At the top, strap the pipe to a piece of strut clamped from truss to truss. You can go 20' vertically between supports with RMC.


314.23 Says you need to support the conduit within 18" of the box if it contains a device,or within 36" of the box if does not contain a device.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't think a long power pole is that uncommon. Just call around.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

manchestersparky said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> 314.23 Says you need to support the conduit within 18" of the box if it contains a device,or within 36" of the box if does not contain a device.


That's why I figured an 18" nipple rather than 24".


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

splatz said:


> That's why I figured an 18" nipple rather than 24".


The nipple going down to the floor is not the issue. The issue is the conduit going up to the ceiling


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

manchestersparky said:


> The nipple going down to the floor is not the issue. The issue is the conduit going up to the ceiling


Does the box have to be supported on both sides within 18"?


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

splatz said:


> Does the box have to be supported on both sides within 18"?


The code states Each Conduit shall be secured within 18" of the enclosure

314.23(F)-
) Raceway-Supported Enclosures, with Devices, Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that contains a device(s), other than splicing devices, or supports a luminaire(s), a lampholder, or other equipment and is supported by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3 (100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or identified hubs. It shall be supported by two or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Wiremold is a Listed canned solution that looks elegant and will totally satisfy the inspector -- who is sure to be coming back.

Don't disappoint him.

Don't Value Engineer ANY project that's driven by the local AHJ. 

That's NOT how one makes it in our trade.

Shoot for quality, elegance, and a one-time-only install. 

How does it help if you're standing there trying to get the AHJ to accept your improv ?

This is NOT a factory floor, it's NOT a private garage, it's a VERY PUBLIC selling space.

And the customer is making a small fortune selling Rockstar, etc.

Charge Large.

That's the ticket.

The customer has the wallet -- take the money. 

Sheesh.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*exception for drops*



manchestersparky said:


> The code states Each Conduit shall be secured within 18" of the enclosure
> 
> 314.23(F)-
> ) Raceway-Supported Enclosures, with Devices, Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that contains a device(s), other than splicing devices, or supports a luminaire(s), a lampholder, or other equipment and is supported by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3 (100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or identified hubs. It shall be supported by two or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure.


I know there is an exception for drops, but don't know where. It is done on machines all the time, I thought it was 19 feet drop in ridgid supported top and bottom .

Also if he used ridged alum no need for paint.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

just the cowboy said:


> I know there is an exception for drops, but don't know where. It is done on machines all the time, I thought it was 19 feet drop in ridgid supported top and bottom .
> 
> Also if he used ridged alum no need for paint.


That's Industrial Thinking.

This is RETAIL.

You're not designing to Code. 

You're designing for elegance.

If it does not 'look right' it is not acceptable to the customer... regardless of the Code.

That's why you keep seeing Wiremold power poles... and why Wiremold can get such high prices. The market demands it... the market... not the Code.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

This job is PRE SOLD.

It's a mandatory install -- to keep the AHJ off their backs -- and to keep selling Rockstar -- which is a money machine for the customer. That's why that reefer is out in the middle of the floor.

The fella that signs off on your work is most unlikely to be the guy paying for it. 

The retailer has STANDARDS that have to be met. ( Franchisee or Corporate )

Hacked up Code solutions that would be fine and dandy back at the warehouse// factory simply will not do.

Wiremold knows that they're practically the only game in town. Hence their pricing is high.

You should be too.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

telsa said:


> This job is PRE SOLD.
> 
> It's a mandatory install -- to keep the AHJ off their backs -- and to keep selling Rockstar -- which is a money machine for the customer. That's why that reefer is out in the middle of the floor.
> 
> ...



I doubt any of that has any importance to this small job.
First off, the floor is too nice to have to drill into and set a anchor for the pole. Secondly, if you look at how bad the roof leaks and how many tiles have water damage, I doubt someone or some company is really paying attention to what the customer see's.

Give them a cost for a pole, and then give them a cost for a drop. Guarantee you they go for the drop, between the two machines.No floor damage and is flexible in case you'd like to move things around later.

No brainer.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Helmut said:


> I doubt any of that has any importance to this small job.
> First off, the floor is too nice to have to drill into and set a anchor for the pole. Secondly, if you look at how bad the roof leaks and how many tiles have water damage, I doubt someone or some company is really paying attention to what the customer see's.
> 
> Give them a cost for a pole, and then give them a cost for a drop. Guarantee you they go for the drop, between the two machines.No floor damage and is flexible in case you'd like to move things around later.
> ...


It is a no brainer.

I've NEVER seen a drop in any retail location in my neck of the woods.

It's Wiremold power poles EVERY TIME.

In a RETAIL SPACE the AHJ is going to have a fit with a cord drop.

You're in a PUBLIC environment with Kids and Teens.

Cord drops fly in the back room, not out in retail selling spaces.

Cord drop = hick install.

The driver of this is the AHJ. Don't you comprehend that ? It's a done deal.

Saving the customer money here can only mean that YOUR profits collapse. 

How do you mark up a dropped extension cord ? You can't.

You've got nothing to point to.

Whose side are you on ?

You're intent is to save the retailer some bucks -- my intent is to keep the OP in clover.

We'll leave it at that.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

telsa said:


> Whose side are you on ?
> 
> You're intent is to save the retailer some bucks -- my intent is to keep the OP in clover.
> 
> We'll leave it at that.


I like options. 

Good 

Better 

Best


You offer two options, your way or no way.

Tough business model.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Helmut said:


> I like options.
> 
> Good
> 
> ...


It's PRE SOLD.

One of the first lessons I ran across: your best sales are when the AHJ demands them.

Now you've really got someone to blame.

You're approach is fine and dandy in general principle.

It's what I'd use in the General Case.

Though, for me, it's only two options:

Tolerable and Really Fine.

That way the prospect can flip a coin if they have too.

Landlords go with Tolerable. Nothing but the Benjamins.

Owners go with Really Fine. They have to live with the results.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I really just don't like those power poles. I don't think they look nicer than pipe. To me they smack of carpet squares institutional commercial cubicle farms. 

This isn't like a Starbucks grade interior, this is a nicer than average six pack store. The best thing on the menu is the corn nuts with barbeque seasoning. If the owner works there he's cheap as hell, and if he doesn't work there he's cheaper. If nobody can use the pipe to rob him and it holds up to late night drunks he's fine. I wouldn't pain the pipe, if I was going to paint anything, and I'm not, I'd paint that chipped up gondola shelving. 

If it had to look nice I could paint it a lot faster than I could get pole in from Wiremold. If it was a starbucks I'd call it a steampunk power pipe and twist a string of LED lights around it and charge triple. They'd go for it all day and night and half the next day.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

splatz said:


> I really just don't like those power poles. I don't think they look nicer than pipe. To me they smack of carpet squares institutional commercial cubicle farms.
> 
> This isn't like a Starbucks grade interior, this is a nicer than average six pack store. The best thing on the menu is the corn nuts with barbeque seasoning. If the owner works there he's cheap as hell, and if he doesn't work there he's cheaper. If nobody can use the pipe to rob him and it holds up to late night drunks he's fine. I wouldn't pain the pipe, if I was going to paint anything, and I'm not, I'd paint that chipped up gondola shelving.
> 
> If it had to look nice I could paint it a lot faster than I could get pole in from Wiremold. If it was a starbucks I'd call it a steampunk power pipe and twist a string of LED lights around it and charge triple. They'd go for it all day and night and half the next day.


I guess I'm biased. Wiremold is a next-day item for me. Their West Coast master warehouse is just over the hill. It's huge.

You guys keep posting based on what YOU think should fly.

Whereas, the AHJ has shot bullets through Plan A.

Wait until he shoots bullets through your Plan B.

BTW, your opinion counts for naught.

As for STANDARDS... these stores are USUALLY franchises.

Around here, I've never seen one that wasn't tied into Big Oil.

Big Oil has one universal convention -- keep the authorities happy -- very happy.

I've never seen one of these in-and-out joints that wasn't tied into gas pumps.

Your situation may vary.

If this joint is actually free-and-independent, well that's a totally different ball of wax.

If so, he's on the route to bankruptcy, BTW.

Without gas pumps -- where is his draw ?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

BTW, my dentist has rotten light fixtures in a soiled T-grid.

He's ROLLING in money.

No AHJ can fault a retail establishment for naughty ceiling tiles.

They never killed anyone.

So, I NEVER take the dirtiness of tiles as any kind of indication.

Some of the FILTHIEST tiles I EVER saw were above a bank.

Utterly disgusting.

Rodent central.

I had to wear Category Ten protection to deal with them.

The filth came off as sheets.

Never figure on ceiling tiles as a 'tell' for the budget of the joint.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

THE magic words are always :* it's failed inspection.*

Thank you very much.

The customer is no longer the customer -- he's just the payer.

The new customer is the AHJ.

That's who's calling the shot.

Tough on the proprietor.

And, yes, I've worn both shoes.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

just the cowboy said:


> I know there is an exception for drops, but don't know where. It is done on machines all the time, I thought it was 19 feet drop in ridgid supported top and bottom .
> 
> Also if he used ridged alum no need for paint.


The issue is not the drop - Its the box . 
Thats what I quoted the code section for.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

telsa said:


> I guess I'm biased. Wiremold is a next-day item for me. Their West Coast master warehouse is just over the hill. It's huge.
> 
> You guys keep posting based on what YOU think should fly.
> 
> ...


There is NO SUCH THING as a convenience store without gas pumps. Also NONE are independently owned.

Who are you? 

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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> *There is NO SUCH THING as a convenience store without gas pumps*. Also NONE are independently owned.
> 
> Who are you?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Then you hold the same opinion as I.

Thank you very much.

BTW, most are actually franchisees... so they really are independently owned.

But they still have to dance to the tune of Big Oil... the franchisor.

McDonalds and Big Oil use the same format: they own the property -- and the franchisee owns the business -- but he has to dance to their business model.

Most particularly, the franchisee HAS TO keep the authorities happy -- very happy.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

The biggest question isn't what kind of pole to use, but rather, will the Indian that owns the store try to talk your price down?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Out my way it's Sikhs -- and they'll hire their cousin to erect the whole dang thing.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

telsa said:


> Then you hold the same opinion as I.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> ...


I was being sarcastic. There are lots of little one off convenience stores, independently owned, that have no gas pumps. 

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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Who has never seen a drop in a store? Ever see the rack for rotisserie chicken by the register at walmart? The box with the hot french bread? Drops, ugly ones too, big #8 or better. You probably never noticed.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> Who has never seen a drop in a store? Ever see the rack for rotisserie chicken by the register at walmart? The box with the hot french bread? Drops, ugly ones too, big #8 or better. You probably never noticed.


I have see it couple time before and my daughter send me a photo of the cord drop but she did not get one part what I asked her but I kinda figured out the wally world do that in few spot due they keep the food warmer moved around pretty often but not for cash registers that do get power/data pole.

and yes they are #8 or #6 ( I belive they are at the latter part accounting of distance from the panel ) the last one I remember it was wired for 208 volt circuit but I think they were single phase IIRC .,, but few did have three phase drop due some area have pretty big warmer but not all store will have three phase cord drop.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> I was being sarcastic. There are lots of little one off convenience stores, independently owned, that have no gas pumps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Such used to exist around here.

They all went under - or cut-in a set of pumps.

We used to have a slew of quasi-independent gas station repair shops.

These no longer exist, either. Their repair shops were converted into mini-marts more than a generation ago.

Mini-marts simply produce MUCH more profit than the old service bays -- which usually sat idle. They also required skilled mechanics. The move to imported cars sealed their doom. They, the old lube bays, were never set up to handle imports. 

( Japanese manufacturers limited the distribution of their repair parts to their own network. This repair action is where Toyota and the rest really made their money. )


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> I was being sarcastic. There are lots of little one off convenience stores, independently owned, that have no gas pumps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


It must be a 'country, thing.

Not one of these exists for fifty-miles around.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Side note, just for future reference, I don't think anyone really was able to rebut @manchestersparky with a code reference about the box support if you ran rigid through the box and used a floor flange. 

This is kind of silly because if you put 3' of strut on a floor fitting and strapped the pipe and the box to the strut, you'd be OK, and that is clearly an inferior install. In fact if you ran 3' of pipe to a floor flange and fastened the box and the pipe to the floor flange you'd be OK.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

telsa said:


> Such used to exist around here.
> 
> They all went under - or cut-in a set of pumps.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. There aren't a ton of them, and they're fewer all the time, but they are around. 

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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

In my area drop cords are the standard for produce coolers and small refrigerator displays. just make sure you install a box flush with the ceiling for it to terminate to, I learned the hard way that SO cord is a no no in plenum ceilings. 

You could even install a flush mounted twist lock receptacle in the ceiling and then make a cord from it to the refrigerator. Maybe install a Kellum grip hanger so it drops right where you want it.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

JohnJ65 said:


> In my area drop cords are the standard for produce coolers and small refrigerator displays. just make sure you install a box flush with the ceiling for it to terminate to, I learned the hard way that SO cord is a no no in plenum ceilings.
> 
> 
> 
> You could even install a flush mounted twist lock receptacle in the ceiling and then make a cord from it to the refrigerator. Maybe install a Kellum grip hanger so it drops right where you want it.




Really , 

Just a cord plugged into the ceiling ? How can this be supported to avoid someone pulling on the cord 


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

JohnJ65 said:


> In my area drop cords are the standard for produce coolers and small refrigerator displays. just make sure you install a box flush with the ceiling for it to terminate to, I learned the hard way that SO cord is a no no in plenum ceilings.
> 
> You could even install a flush mounted twist lock receptacle in the ceiling and then make a cord from it to the refrigerator. Maybe install a Kellum grip hanger so it drops right where you want it.





WronGun said:


> Really ,
> 
> Just a cord plugged into the ceiling ? How can this be supported to avoid someone pulling on the cord


The twist lock would prevent it from yanking out, but with the kellems to position it, it wouldn't even be pulling on the twist lock. I see this setup for computer equipment racks in some places, but don't think I've seen it in the customer areas in retail space.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

telsa said:


> It is a no brainer.
> 
> I've NEVER seen a drop in any retail location in my neck of the woods.
> 
> ...


I think I saw multiple cord drops in my new local Bed Bath and Beyond. They were black retractable ones like the ones I put in a storage/work garage.surprised me


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

I installed some brushed aluminum power poles that were,I think, were 15' long in an open office with cubicles. I think they were $190 apiece.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Do dedicated receptacles for coolers like this need Circuit protection ? 

Assuming yes...


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