# Days work.



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

I would have bundled everything for the vertical drop to save time and real estate on the backboard.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> Got a whole house roped out today with catv and Ethernet. Small house. 3 bed. Total of 8 home runs of Ethernet and 9 home runs of catv. It's not complete yet. Still need to run 2 more cable lines and 3 more Ethernet lines. Also need to install Ethernet for security cameras and install those as well. That stuff is getting done in the winter and running it all in the attic. But here is just a section of my work from today, how could have I done it better. Also keep in mind that I still need to run to this point 3 more Ethernet. ( maybe 4) and 2 or 3 more catv lines so it will have to be redone. Also the long white ethernets already got cut up and re crimped.


Who's the round man with the gut..:laughing:


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

The home owner in utter shock of how neat it was. He usually does all his own work and has been down due to a bad arm. Good friends. Been helping them move into this "new" house.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

stuiec said:


> I would have bundled everything for the vertical drop to save time and real estate on the backboard.


I was thinking of that but wasn't how sure how neat it would look. All my usual stuff lands zip tied into a rack. How would you bundle, catv, Ethernet, and phone seperate or as one large one.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> I was thinking of that but wasn't how sure how neat it would look. All my usual stuff lands zip tied into a rack. How would you bundle, catv, Ethernet, and phone seperate or as one large one.


 
Depends on where they were going. One bundle. You can always peel out of the bundle to land somewhere else, and if neatness counts, a sticky-back (screwed on) does the trick. I usually pull everything and then arrange them, as opposed to stapling as I go.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

JoeKP, I'm going to be honest with you and if your a knob you will get all defensive if your a good [email protected]#$ you will take it on board as a learning experience, I'm not an expert this is just my personal opinion so I'm not attacking you just exposing you to a different way of doing things.

That looks like poos to me but the clients happy so you hit a home run.

We still timber frame a lot of commercial buildings here in NZ, so I'm not to fair away from residential type stuff, what I would want to see over that area is 2 cat wires one for the coax and another for the data stuff, there isn't really any need to separate them out like that they should be loomed on the catenary wire, your just wasting time doing that.
http://www.electrex.co.nz/electrex-products-catenary-wire.html
http://www.electrex.co.nz/electrex-products-chains-hooks.html

I normally build a backboard out of ply, put my coax splittermathingyjiggy mounted onto the ply and drill 12mm holes close to the ports of the splitter, I then drop the loom behind the splitter and bring the coaxes through the holes making it look like some kind of bionic spider. That also hides the slack you have in the top of your coax.

How many boxes or drums of cable did you have? When we pull cable we find the main arterial tray or catenary route then put all of our boxes there, label them up and pull as many cables at once as we can into the rack or panel, we then move the boxes to their drop points, when you put the box where the box is with the cable laying flat on the floor and a vertical drop where they were pulled from plus a metre that is a perfect measure off and we pull it back to the original pull point and pull it along the tray or catenary to its drop point. 

Overall zip ties and catenary wire is going to look better than using those cable clips or staples.


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## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

stuiec said:


> I would have bundled everything for the vertical drop to save time and real estate on the backboard.


Same with me, black cables behind white, neat drop top down


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

CDN EC said:


> Same with me, black cables behind white, neat drop top down


Black cables separate then the white cables loomed and the zip ties around each other if you really want to spin my propellors.


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## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

chewy said:


> Black cables separate then the white cables loomed and the zip ties around each other if you really want to spin my propellors.


Loom is a step in a whole other direction for me, air handlers love that stuff


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

This is what I mean by loom, a loom is 24 cables or less that has been dressed onto a catenary wire. This also shows a main arterial route going back to the cabinet.


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## Neoursa (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm doing more of this lately. I won't put the cat6 wire or coax on the board with the power. Someone else always steps in at some point and messes it up. Power, data separate.

That said, the power to the data parts on low end installs I mount a ups. Us more MTAs and cable modems have batteries but many don't. There's also security cam feeds to consider.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> This is what I mean by loom, a loom is 24 cables or less that has been dressed onto a catenary wire. This also shows a main arterial route going back to the cabinet.


If that is how you tried to do houses here you would be sitting at home due to no work. You would price yourself out of the jobs.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

BBQ said:


> If that is how you tried to do houses here you would be sitting at home due to no work. You would price yourself out of the jobs.


I could invent that its a safety hazard and pressure local bodies to mandate that all work needs to be done like that... :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> I could invent that its a safety hazard and pressure local bodies to mandate that all work needs to be done like that... :laughing:


:laughing:

For what it is worth running a 'centenary line' (we would call it a 'messenger') for data is almost never done here. About the only place I might expect to see one is in industrial installations.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

BBQ said:


> :laughing:
> 
> For what it is worth running a 'centenary line' (we would call it a 'messenger') for data is almost never done here. About the only place I might expect to see one is in industrial installations.


Catenary is just a support, its just for zip tying or velcroing to. Its just no.08 wire with a plastic coating.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Bridal rings make it nice!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> Catenary is just a support, its just for zip tying or velcroing to. Its just no.08 wire with a plastic coating.


I understand, we would call it a 'messenger support' and other than for outside overhead work it is almost never done here.


This installation would have been done with some sort of individual supports to the structure.










Either these ...










Or these ...









I am not saying what you show is wrong, in fact it looks great. It is just different from what I see around here.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I understand, we would call it a 'messenger support' and other than for outside overhead work it is almost never done here.
> 
> This installation would have been done with some sort of individual supports to the structure.
> 
> ...


Ah I see, I thought that by messenger you meant it carried a signal or something. 

For concrete we either use mechanical eye anchors or we hammer in eyes that have a hardened dog leg in them. For most runs we use turnbuckles and for longer runs we have to use those fencing strainers that look like pizza cutters. How do extra low voltage guys support their cables in ceilings if you dont see that over there? Do they run tray for just a couple cables?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> How do extra low voltage guys support their cables in ceilings if you dont see that over there? Do they run tray for just a couple cables?


From the structure with hooks, if the structure happens to be much higher than the ceiling often a steel wire is used to drop the support down to the cable.

Or it's just left laying on top of the ceiling grid.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

BBQ said:


> From the structure with hooks, if the structure happens to be much higher than the ceiling often a steel wire is used to drop the support down to the cable.
> 
> Or it's just left laying on top of the ceiling grid.


Hard to make that look good, Id rather just drill 2 holes and run a wire than drill one every 2ft or whatever.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chewy said:


> Hard to make that look good, Id rather just drill 2 holes and run a wire than drill one every 2ft or whatever.


I don't disagree, it is just not a standard practice here, I don't know why. It seems like a good way to go sometimes.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> The home owner in utter shock of how neat it was. He usually does all his own work and has been down due to a bad arm. Good friends. Been helping them move into this "new" house.


Really?? I guess in comparison to the usual mess of cable and telephone wiring it is but IMO it looks like crap. I prefer the bundle approach but really all that matters is that you are satisfied and the HO is happy.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> If that is how you tried to do houses here you would be sitting at home due to no work. You would price yourself out of the jobs.


yes you would BBQ

but that doesn't mean we can't upsell once our foot's in the door....

datacom is probably one of the best places to do this too, i offer a lot of Leviton structured media>
http://store.leviton.com/Structured...369011?ie=UTF8&title=Structured+Media+Centers









want to manipulate multiple ph ,coax and data lines? _(they sell a dsl card, routers , etc, the models go up from this basic 14x14 panel)_

and Joe, if your still reading, i used to make fun of the data guys and thier girly man wiring all the time, until i found out they oull down some _serious _scratch!

watch the Leviton installation vids, or find yourself a local 'Chewy', and offer to carry his tools around for him....

~CS~


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

My boss makes alot of money, I just get paid the same as a construction electrician in my area, the equipment is so expensive most profit is through % mark up and billing the customer for materials delivered to site before the company is charged for it. Leviton used to be our budget network stuff and I quite liked it but now we use this crap from schnieder I dont really like.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

I don't mount backboards directly to the block wall, mount some 2x4's first. Then bundle the cables and drop them behind the backboard and out a hole where you want. Add a patch panel and call it good.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

crazyboy said:


> I don't mount backboards directly to the block wall, mount some 2x4's first. Then bundle the cables and drop them behind the backboard and out a hole where you want. Add a patch panel and call it good.


This backboard is mounted on 2x4s.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Every other place I have done including my own. I try to get a cabinet or rack. I am going to end up re doing this when the other items get pulled in. I didn't want to waste zip ties yet. But I am going to try out the bundling.


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## Cat5Installer (Jul 19, 2009)

That messenger wire setup is pretty cool! I'll keep it in mind, I just seem to have too many direction changes on most installs. Around here datacom gets roughed in after electric and HVAC. The best routes are usually taken by then. 

I like J hooks. It's quick, looks pretty decent, and multiple direction changes are no problem. I have 2 Cable Joe's and rough-in most jobs solo. 










JoeKP, if it's in the budget... think about using a leviton quickport multi-media panel. Great on small jobs and you just snap-in whatever insert you need. Voice, Data, Video, ect. I have even used the little 12 port mini-patch panel model with the vertical orientation that has the same footprint as a 66 block.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

This is a job thrown at me last minute while our company was doing the electrical on a house that had a fire.

Guy decided he wanted 24 CAT6 home runs, 18 (if I remember correctly) phone jacks and 24 RG6 cable jacks. Mind you this is in a half a double 4 story house :blink:

All the boosters for cable were done in the basement so each run was straight to it's destination. Wish I had grabbed more pics.

This guy kept changing his mind and changing the prints he designed himself we were glad for this one to be over with. Unfortunately I did not get any finished pics but the HO loved it even though it was not up to my own specs.


roughing in






























RG6 runs


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

While we all may do things differently, it is still a lot better than 99 percent of what I encounter!
Cat5installer and zwodubber, nice work as always!


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

zwodubber said:


> This is a job thrown at me last minute while our company was doing the electrical on a house that had a fire.
> 
> Guy decided he wanted 24 CAT6 home runs, 18 (if I remember correctly) phone jacks and 24 RG6 cable jacks. Mind you this is in a half a double 4 story house :blink:
> 
> ...


I like those rg6 blocks. Where did you get em and how much??


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

JoeKP said:


> Also need to install Ethernet for security cameras and install those as well.


Hope you have the S License


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

............


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## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

chewy said:


> This is what I mean by loom, a loom is 24 cables or less that has been dressed onto a catenary wire. This also shows a main arterial route going back to the cabinet.


Ahhh...I was thinking this stuff:


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## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

chewy said:


> How do extra low voltage guys support their cables in ceilings if you dont see that over there? Do they run tray for just a couple cables?


In open ceilings, we've done as much as eye-strapped above the ductwork with pipe running to the individual drops, and in T-bar just the main arterial runs on J-hooks with the drops strapped to the wire hangers.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> Hope you have the S License


A who. And nah. They are just stuff purchased locally. Nothing fancy. Just ip cams


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> A who. And nah. They are just stuff purchased locally. Nothing fancy. Just ip cams


I think he means where he is located u meed a special license to do low volt and security?


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

denny3992 said:


> I think he means where he is located u meed a special license to do low volt and security?


Not that I know of.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

JoeKP said:


> Not that I know of.



www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/dps/ *s*-*license*.html



> Massachusetts Security Contractors License​ *S-License and Certificate of Clearance*
> 
> In addition to an electrical license - Anyone who wishes to engage in the business of installing, repairing, maintaining, or selling any Security Systems, CCTV/Surveillance Systems, Access Control Systems, Door Entry Systems must obtain an S-license from the Department of Public Safety.


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## Neoursa (Sep 22, 2012)

More red tape, fees. That looks like it just checks the criminal records, nothing skilled based.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/dps/ s-license.html


Of course. -__- well I'm gonna say that these don't count. Cause according to my plans. All I'm providing is a cat6 and bell wire to a wall plate and that's it. Only requirements is that the plate is 8" down from ceiling.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> Of course. -__- well I'm gonna say that these don't count. Cause according to my plans. All I'm providing is a cat6 and bell wire to a wall plate and that's it. Only requirements is that the plate is 8" down from ceiling.


I wire for security all the time but I cant sell a product or install alarms or anything like that.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> Of course. -__- well I'm gonna say that these don't count. Cause according to my plans. All I'm providing is a cat6 and bell wire to a wall plate and that's it. Only requirements is that the plate is 8" down from ceiling.


:laughing:

It's not like there is a task force out busting guys for this. 

That said, you are in business, get the S licenses, it's easy unless you have been convicted of some crimes.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

BBQ said:


> :laughing:
> 
> It's not like there is a task force out busting guys for this.
> 
> That said, you are in business, get the S licenses, it's easy unless you have been convicted of some crimes.


I'm clean. Lol. I'm gonna look into it. Would be nice to have


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