# Surveillance, 5E or 6



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

That is correct.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Well, I know cat 5E will do just fine because that’s all I’ve used for surveillance systems. 

I should’ve given more detail. 

I’m starting a tenant fit up which includes 30 cameras spread out over 15,000 sq’ 

8 of the cameras run a distance of 150’ away from the Server 

This is why I questioned whether or not to use cat 6. 


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

WronGun said:


> Well, I know cat 5E will do just fine because that’s all I’ve used for surveillance systems.
> 
> I should’ve given more detail.
> 
> ...


Both have the same distance limit, you're fine at 150'


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I have a spec that calls for running cat6 to each of 5 treadmills in a clubhouse renovation. WTF?. It's more of a PITA to terminate so, no Cat6 for them.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> I have a spec that calls for running cat6 to each of 5 treadmills in a clubhouse renovation. WTF?. It's more of a PITA to terminate so, no Cat6 for them.




We do a good amount of smaller telecom
Jobs and I use Cat 6 for everything (lately)

However , I’m trying to be financially efficient on this job but I don’t want to take away from performance. 

There was a considerable difference in cost from using 5E vs. 6..... and most of what I read said it wasn’t worth the cost to use 6. 

The system is high end, at least to me it is. Cameras in which I got at discounts from supplier and manufacturer installer/reseller program came to me at $690 each. 

I suppose it doesn’t matter if they are only capable of speeds far less than what 5E can support. 




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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

WronGun said:


> We do a good amount of smaller telecom
> Jobs and I use Cat 6 for everything (lately)
> 
> However , I’m trying to be financially efficient on this job but I don’t want to take away from performance.
> ...


Splatz knows more than I can comment on but, we installed some Mobotix cameras and they are pretty high end and only need cat5.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Cat5e is plenty..., it is plenty for 99% of the stuff out there because 99% of the clients don't have anything to support Cat6 or fibre at or beyond the closet anyway.

Cheers
John


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## Stuff (Oct 14, 2012)

Shh! You guys need to stop talking about this. Cat6 has been a great money maker for the last few years. No one needs to know they don't need it. I have found telling the client they really don't need it is like telling someone in Arizona they don't need air conditioning.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

CAT 6 is an orphan. The Ethernet standards jumped past it and nothing else has the bandwidth. The only actual advantage is the cable is smoother than 5E so the pull is slightly easier but not enough for the cost. I continue to make money off the low voltage hacks that don't know this when I educate the customer and embarrass them when I give them the right questions to ask that the competitor can't answer like explaining NEXT and FEXT and RJ45 bandwidth and 1 and GBPS bandwidth requirements. Works every time.

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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Are there any rules regarding running cat 5E under decking, cable tie’d to beams ?

I’m guessing no because this would be an extremely expensive job if it was in pipe... 

Again , I’ve installed plenty of camera systems none in a fully exposed setting. We are dropping all runs into 5’ downrods 


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## Stuff (Oct 14, 2012)

You are to keep it away from the roof deck itself. Protecting from screws.
Also: In a clean ceiling go with a white jacket if you can.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Stuff said:


> You are to keep it away from the roof deck itself. Protecting from screws.
> Also: In a clean ceiling go with a white jacket if you can.




Ya using white 5E.

Trying to visualize it , going across cross-beams and making turns it’s not all going to be neatly hidden and bundled on the over side of the purlins. 

Maybe I’m being too picky . I try to visualize every detail before starting 


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

WronGun said:


> Are there any rules regarding running cat 5E under decking, cable tie’d to beams ?
> 
> I’m guessing no because this would be an extremely expensive job if it was in pipe...
> 
> Again , I’ve installed plenty of camera systems none in a fully exposed setting. We are dropping all runs into 5’ downrods


There are some rules explicitly spelled out in chapter 8 of the NEC, and there is a note in there that refers to the TIA standards, which are in many cases over the top. However IME it's not really strictly enforced, if you're reasonably neat nobody gives a rat's tar star. It only makes sense to use common sense such as keeping clear of the deck etc.


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## UncleMike (Jan 2, 2013)

paulengr said:


> CAT 6 is an orphan. The Ethernet standards jumped past it and nothing else has the bandwidth. The only actual advantage is the cable is smoother than 5E so the pull is slightly easier but not enough for the cost. I continue to make money off the low voltage hacks that don't know this when I educate the customer and embarrass them when I give them the right questions to ask that the competitor can't answer like explaining NEXT and FEXT and RJ45 bandwidth and 1 and GBPS bandwidth requirements. Works every time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


I bet they're pretty embarrassed when the now educated customer tells them that RJ45 is a term commonly misused by "hacks" to refer to the 8P8C modular connectors used for Ethernet, and that GBPS means gigabytes per second, not gigabits per second (abbreviated Gbps). If only you could see the looks on their faces.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Well the client asked for cat 6 for the computer system , 5E ok for cameras .... ok 


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

UncleMike said:


> I bet they're pretty embarrassed when the now educated customer tells them that RJ45 is a term commonly misused by "hacks" to refer to the 8P8C modular connectors used for Ethernet, and that GBPS means gigabytes per second, not gigabits per second (abbreviated Gbps). If only you could see the looks on their faces.


OK, I'll bite ... What do YOU call the 8P8C connector ?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

WronGun said:


> Well the client asked for cat 6 for the computer system , 5E ok for cameras .... ok
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, It's their money ... take it :biggrin:
If they truly need 10gig Ethernet, then that is the required cabling.

fwiw ... Broadcast quality video is 6Mbps (Max, without compression)
Assuming 70% network congestion, that's 115 cameras on a 1 Gig network.
HDTV on gigabit, would limit you to 35 cameras. (@ 70%)

Then there's UHDTV, but I doubt you have that !


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

There are 4K cameras now, but even without compression, these don't take up a full gigabit - it's basically 4x 1080P high def. 

It is possible to get into layouts where the uplink between switches or to the NVR benefits from 10GB, but realistically you're better off using fiber for the uplinks. 10GB has short distance limits on Cat6. 

It's conceivable that you could have a situation where you want 10GB for the NVR, but it would probably be in an equipment room, a patch cord to a switch, not an installed cable. It's also going to be likely that the processing requirements make it more feasible to install more, smaller NVRs that can handle 1GB of feed, rather than building bigger NVRs. 

So, there is little real advantage of Cat6 over Cat5e, even if you need 10GB, you're better off with fiber. 

Regarding the RJ45 - I think officially there actually is no such thing. The RJ- designations are from "registered jack" types the telcos use. There is an RJ45S, and RJ48s, and all kinds of other RJs of different configurations. But I just call them Cat5e or Cat6 plugs.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Yes, RJ45 is the standard that the wiring conforms to, and everybody calls it an RJ45 connector.

I've wired up many Radio Modems, that use an RJ45 connector for the serial port. The manufacturer refers to it as an 'RJ45' connector (although obviously not Ethernet)


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

We are installing 30 higher end Axis model cameras using 5E

Cabling to computers and Exacq Servers we will use cat 6 

The system is designed for 2 Exacq servers and 2 trendnet 16 port Poe switches. 

Server room is in the middle of the entire space so no camera will be more than 150’ away 

We will also be sending a video signal to the front end from the servers probably using (2) cat 6 and convert to HDMI Into a secondary monitor 




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## Stuff (Oct 14, 2012)

UncleMike said:


> I bet they're pretty embarrassed when the now educated customer tells them that RJ45 is a term commonly misused by "hacks" to refer to the 8P8C modular connectors used for Ethernet, and that GBPS means gigabytes per second, not gigabits per second (abbreviated Gbps). If only you could see the looks on their faces.


They must break down and cry when they realize they have been calling cables wires. And they paid the bill anyway!:vs_laugh:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Those Trendnet switches do not belong in the same building with those cameras. 

The HDMI extenders are a whole different animal, if they say they need Cat6, they need Cat6. 



WronGun said:


> We are installing 30 higher end Axis model cameras using 5E
> 
> Cabling to computers and Exacq Servers we will use cat 6
> 
> ...


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Any recommendations for a hand held test monitor ? 


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## UncleMike (Jan 2, 2013)

emtnut said:


> OK, I'll bite ... What do YOU call the 8P8C connector ?


I'll sometimes call it a Cat5e plug (assuming were referring to plugs, and not jacks), or I might even call it an RJ45 depending on who I'm talking to. But I wouldn't call it an RJ45 if I was throwing out terms with a customer in an attempt to make the _competition_ look like a hack.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

WronGun said:


> Any recommendations for a hand held test monitor ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the Northern 3.5" screen test monitor. It supports TVI, PAL, NTSC, and IP cameras. (Pan and tilt as well.) 

I have yet to use it for anything other than TVI. it's a great little test monitor though.

Model: NTH-IP35TM

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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

UncleMike said:


> I'll sometimes call it a Cat5e plug (assuming were referring to plugs, and not jacks), or I might even call it an RJ45 depending on who I'm talking to. But I wouldn't call it an RJ45 if I was throwing out terms with a customer in an attempt to make the _competition_ look like a hack.


I agree with you on the GBps and Gbps ... but the connector and jack is called RJ45 by everyone, mfrs included.

If it is actually something different, what is the real trade name ?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

WronGun said:


> Any recommendations for a hand held test monitor ?


With IP cameras it's easy enough to just use your phone.


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## mjbasford (Oct 2, 2016)

emtnut said:


> UncleMike said:
> 
> 
> > I'll sometimes call it a Cat5e plug (assuming were referring to plugs, and not jacks), or I might even call it an RJ45 depending on who I'm talking to. But I wouldn't call it an RJ45 if I was throwing out terms with a customer in an attempt to make the _competition_ look like a hack.
> ...


This is a bit of a pet peeves of mine. The proper name is actually 8P8C connector, but no one uses that in normal speak. Everyone called them rj45's, or mod ends, mod plugs, ice cubes, etc...

Calling people out for calling it a rj45 is stupid. It's similar to calling someone out for calling nm-b Romex, regardless of the brand. Who cares how accurate I'm being, you know exactly what I mean.

Definitely talking about talking to co workers etc here, knowing the proper names is important, but knowing how people talk is equally important.

While I do agree using 8P8C to try to make someone else bidding the job look dumb could work, not sure I've ever had a customer who cares about what I call my connector, unless it was an engineered bid, in which case who cares, everyone is calling it whatever the engineer called it.


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## UncleMike (Jan 2, 2013)

emtnut said:


> UncleMike said:
> 
> 
> > I'll sometimes call it a Cat5e plug (assuming were referring to plugs, and not jacks), or I might even call it an RJ45 depending on who I'm talking to. But I wouldn't call it an RJ45 if I was throwing out terms with a customer in an attempt to make the _competition_ look like a hack.
> ...


I agree that everyone calls it an RJ45 at times, but it's technically an 8P8C Modular Connector. I would never call it that in normal conversation, and probably stick to calling it RJ45, plug or jack, if for no other reason than to avoid confusion or argument over something almost everyone does. But if someone is going to publicly say how they use technical terms with their customer in an attempt to make their competitors look like hacks, they should be prepared to be called out on their misuse of those same terms.


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