# wiring ducts in panelboards



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

What is the problem trying to be solved?


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

FrunkSlammer said:


> What is the problem trying to be solved?


I don't know. Who said there was a problem to solve? Did you read my post?


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Why does Going Commando thank Frunkslammer for asking a worthless question? I don't get it.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

CFL said:


> I've never seen a wiring duct in a panelboard but it seems like a good idea. Other than the cost, does anyone see a reason why this would be a bad idea? My helper told me the other day that you can't ty wrap conductors in a panel, which I disagree with, but it got me thinking of a better way to do things. A wiring duct would be quick, easy, and neat. It would allow future electricians to move, add, and troubleshoot circuits. What do you guys think?


are you talking about something for wire management , like panduit ? Obviously the manufacturer would have to make this because anything you add to a panel is going to be way worse of a violation than a few Ty wraps and sticky back pads . I wouldn't mind it , but they keep making panels cheaper and cheaper . This would be a paid for option if they were ever to do it . Your helper is wrong too by the way .


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

CFL said:


> Why does Going Commando thank Frunkslammer for asking a worthless question? I don't get it.


Because we don't know what you think the problem is that you think a wiring duct in a panel would solve.

Elaborate/explain and we can give opinions. What's the problem you encounter?


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Because we don't know what you think the problem is that you think a wiring duct in a panel would solve.
> 
> Elaborate/explain and we can give opinions. What's the problem you encounter?


There is no problem. Millions of panels have been made up around the world in pretty much the same manner. I make up panels on a regular basis just like everyone else does. My post does not mention a problem. I asked what you think about using wiring duct in a panelboard. Simple question. I always look for a better way to do things and this might be one of them.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Well, I tell you what, I'll try it out on my next panel next week and let you know what I think. I guess there is a problem that can be fixed with this idea, messy panels done by guys with no skills. I don't have this problem so for me it's just searching for new methods.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

CFL said:


> There is no problem. Millions of panels have been made up around the world in pretty much the same manner. I make up panels on a regular basis just like everyone else does. My post does not mention a problem. I asked what you think about using wiring duct in a panelboard. Simple question. I always look for a better way to do things and this might be one of them.


please elaborate on what you're calling " wiring duct " . As I said before , like a plastic panduit or something to help with wire management ? It's hard for people to give you feedback , when you aren't exactly clear with what you're proposing .


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

drumnut08 said:


> please elaborate on what you're calling " wiring duct " . As I said before , like a plastic panduit or something to help with wire management ? It's hard for people to give you feedback , when you aren't exactly clear with what you're proposing .


Yeah, like plastic panduit or tnb or any other brand. The type with the snap on cover. We use it all the time in control cabinets, so I figure why not use it in a panelboard.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

CFL said:


> Yeah, like plastic panduit or tnb or any other brand. The type with the snap on cover. We use it all the time in control cabinets, so I figure why not use it in a panelboard.


ok , that's what I thought you meant . I guess if you got something no bigger than the depth of the panel , it would work nice , but is it legal ? I've thought of it myself , but never pursued it as I've always got Ty wraps and sticky backs , lol ! Try it , see what happens ? Take pictures .


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

CFL said:


> Why does Going Commando thank Frunkslammer for asking a worthless question? I don't get it.


Because duct in panels is a pointless idea and a ware of money? You know, kinda like Ty wraps. :laughing:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

drumnut08 said:


> ok , that's what I thought you meant . I guess if you got something no bigger than the depth of the panel , it would work nice , but is it legal ? I've thought of it myself , but never pursued it as I've always got Ty wraps and sticky backs , lol ! Try it , see what happens ? Take pictures .


Thanks for the reply. I will take pictures.


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## Nom Deplume (Jul 21, 2013)

CFL said:


> Why does Going Commando thank Frunkslammer for asking a worthless question? I don't get it.


Because they are the same person with different logins.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)




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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> Because duct in panels is a pointless idea and a ware of money? You know, kinda like Ty wraps. :laughing:
> 
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


It ain't broke, but it could be much better. Think about making up a panel in less time and still have it neat. Even the sloppiest guy on the crew could make up the panel just as neat as the others.

So, it's not pointless. Waste of money, maybe. I'll decide that for myself. Sometimes money is not an issue.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

I feel like this is the Shark Tank and I want to tell you this is the worst idea I've ever heard.

But I don't want to hurt your feelings because you seem very pumped about it.

Do it, take pics, show us and then ship the idea off to panelboard manufacturers. Maybe you'll change the world for the better, while the rest of us just laughed at your idea.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

FrunkSlammer said:


> I feel like this is the Shark Tank and I want to tell you this is the worst idea I've ever heard.
> 
> But I don't want to hurt your feelings because you seem very pumped about it.
> 
> Do it, take pics, show us and then ship the idea off to panelboard manufacturers. Maybe you'll change the world for the better, while the rest of us just laughed at your idea.


You dumbfuucckk. I'm guessing you're a twenty-something dumbaasss helper typing on your faggottty little smartphone all day with almost no electrical experience. You don't know sshhiitt and you ffuucckk up this forum on a regular basis. Keep your stupid posts in the off topic section and let the professionals speak to each other.

And just to stoop to your level for a sec, if you were my helper with your bitchasssss little attitude I would gladly get fired to smash your coccksucking little face in.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

CFL said:


> I've never seen a wiring duct in a panelboard but it seems like a good idea. Other than the cost, does anyone see a reason why this would be a bad idea? My helper told me the other day that you can't ty wrap conductors in a panel, which I disagree with, but it got me thinking of a better way to do things. A wiring duct would be quick, easy, and neat. It would allow future electricians to move, add, and troubleshoot circuits. What do you guys think?


OK, you are asking us what we think.

I think it is a bad idea, a waste of time and a waste of money. 

And tell your helper they are wrong about tie wraps.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> OK, you are asking us what we think.
> 
> I think it is a bad idea, a waste of time and a waste of money.
> 
> And tell your helper they are wrong about tie wraps.


I know my helper is wrong, that's why I disagree with him. At least you answered my question. I'm disappointed that your answer sucks. And go ffuuckk yourself.:thumbsup:


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

CFL said:


> You dumbfuucckk. I'm guessing you're a twenty-something dumbaasss helper typing on your faggottty little smartphone all day with almost no electrical experience.


Basically.

Except I'm 35, married, 2.5 kids, work for myself and basically know a bad idea when I hear one. 

*I'm out.*

So 3 sharks are out.. only 2 left, can you sell your idea?


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Basically.
> 
> Except I'm 35, married, 2.5 kids, work for myself and basically know a bad idea when I hear one.
> 
> ...


Thank you for clearing that up. Your opinion doesn't mean sshhiitt. I'm looking for a pro's opinion. You use this site for socializing, I come here for ideas or answers, not to make friends. So ffuucckk off.

2.5 kids, what a douche. They let ffaaggotts adopt and get married in your parts? What a shame.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

CFL said:


> 2.5 kids, what a douche. They let ffaaggotts adopt and get married in your parts? What a shame.


2.5, my wife is pregnant with the third. 

You sure are easy to rile up. You gotta take some voluntary anger management classes before you become like Shockdoc and get forced by the courts. 

Kevin Leary wants to know how's it going to MAKE HIM MONEY? And Robert Herjavec just wants to hear your immigrant story, so you better have one!


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

CFL said:


> Thank you for clearing that up. Your opinion doesn't ****tt. I'm looking for a pro's opinion. You use this site for socializing, I come here for ideas or answers, not to make friends. So ffuucckk off. 2.5 kids, what a douche. They let ffaaggotts adopt and get married in your parts? What a shame.


Jesus settle down Shirley. You're embarrassing yourself getting all worked up like this. Take things personal much?

Oh and your bright idea is stupid


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

IMO [which is worthless to anyone but me] I wouldn't modify the panelboard & put a duct or wireway inside it. I would think it voids the UL listing.

I would also think any fires or electrical hazards "if" they happen would be blamed on this modification regardless of it being the actual cause or not, and then it would be on the person/business that installed the duct.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

CFL said:


> Thanks for the reply. I will take pictures.


no problem , but you really need to accept and expect constructive criticism here . Opinions are like assh---'s , everybody has one , lol ! Once you start name calling , you lose your credibility and show that you're easy to get to . Furthermore , who cares what others think ? I question voiding the UL listing as well and I'm sure an inspector or two , may have a problem with it .


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

With stranded wire it MIGHT make wire management simpler early on, but as the spaghetti makers move in it would be butchered.

Tie wraps are a PIA.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

When I put the panel in my shop I installed small wire straps like you would use on thermostat wire if you were surface mounting it. I use them to hold tyraps . When I was finished wiring the I tightened the tyraps . 
Makes a nice looking job and you don't have to worry about sticky backs pulling off . 

I would like to se the manufacturers stamp in a indentation designed to hold a tyrap. That would make neat panels easer.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> When I put the panel in my shop I installed small wire straps like you would use on thermostat wire if you were surface mounting it. I use them to hold tyraps . When I was finished wiring the I tightened the tyraps .
> Makes a nice looking job and you don't have to worry about sticky backs pulling off .
> 
> I would like to se the manufacturers stamp in a indentation designed to hold a tyrap. That would make neat panels easer.


A PIA to trouble shoot and a heat bundle with maximum loaded branch circuits such as you see in a panel feeding lighting or VAV's


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I would like to se the manufacturers stamp in a indentation designed to hold a tyrap. That would make neat panels easer.


I love that idea.......it would be an awesome addition.

A panel trimmed out neatly is a work of art. :thumbup:


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

drumnut08 said:


> no problem , but you really need to accept and expect constructive criticism here . Opinions are like assh---'s , everybody has one , lol ! Once you start name calling , you lose your credibility and show that you're easy to get to . Furthermore , who cares what others think ? I question voiding the UL listing as well and I'm sure an inspector or two , may have a problem with it .


I have no problem with constructive criticism. That's what I wanted. What I didn't want was stupid answers. I am easy to get to, even worse in person. I have a violent temper too, which is why I'm using my old laptop right now (new one is dead).

I guess the concern with the UL listing would be regarding heat. I know it's not a good argument, but cable ties would be more likely to cause excess heat in my opinion.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> Jesus settle down Shirley. You're embarrassing yourself getting all worked up like this. Take things personal much?
> 
> Oh and your bright idea is stupid


It's hard to embarass myself when nobody knows who I am.

Oh and thanks for trying to further piss me off. Must not be much to do over there, eh? What a waste of your time.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

FrunkSlammer said:


> 2.5, my wife is pregnant with the third.
> 
> You sure are easy to rile up. You gotta take some voluntary anger management classes before you become like Shockdoc and get forced by the courts.


I've already been forced by the court. I've also been "forced" by my boss, but it is illegal for him to check on my progress so I never followed through on it.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> With stranded wire it MIGHT make wire management simpler early on, but as the spaghetti makers move in it would be butchered.
> 
> Tie wraps are a PIA.


In the first paragraph are you referring to tie wraps or duct. As far as people making spaghetti out of it, I've seen some pretty bad control cabinets. But in this case we're not talking about that many wires. 

I was only thinking of stranded wire. I doubt it would work well with solid wire.

Thanks


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

I have another way of putting this to get the answer that I want to hear. If the panelboard manufacturer sold the panel with the wire duct built in, and they gave you the option of easily removing it, would you use it or would you remove it and do it the old fashion way?


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

remove it


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

DH ELECTRIC said:


> remove it


Pretty much. What happens when you want to run a sub panel or 2 off of the panel with panduit? Running 1/0 AL through Panduit doesn't sound like much fun to me.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> Pretty much. What happens when you want to run a sub panel or 2 off of the panel with panduit? Running 1/0 AL through Panduit doesn't sound like much fun to me.


You would just run the 1/0 outside of the duct, pretty simple.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

CFL said:


> You would just run the 1/0 outside of the duct, pretty simple.


Ok, so a panel usually has about 3" of space on either side of the "guts" right? You want to put panduit in that space, which will take up 2" of it. That leaves 1/2" an inch on either side of the panduit to run larger conductors, get the proper bend radius on the conductor, and terminate it on a breaker. Except now you have an inch or so to work with instead of the 3" (which is still a bit tight sometimes). Hmmm. Or, you just throw the panduit out, and wire the panel the same way it has been done for 100 years, and not have to d*ck around with panduit.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> Ok, so a panel usually has about 3" of space on either side of the "guts" right? You want to put panduit in that space, which will take up 2" of it. That leaves 1/2" an inch on either side of the panduit to run larger conductors, get the proper bend radius on the conductor, and terminate it on a breaker. Except now you have an inch or so to work with instead of the 3" (which is still a bit tight sometimes). Hmmm. Or, you just throw the panduit out, and wire the panel the same way it has been done for 100 years, and not have to d*ck around with panduit.


I'll be honest, I don't know exactly how much room is in a typical panelboard. I know there's enough room to run a bundle of grounds, a bundle of neutrals, and a bundle of hots, side by side, tie wrapped to sticky backs. One wire duct seems like it would take up less space.

You see, when someone tells me why it's a bad idea, it makes me see other angles. I'm not convinced it's a horrible idea yet, but I appreciate your explanation.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Don't panel boards already come with covers to hide the ugly?

It's just a useless idea.. like spinning rims. 










Wait. Then again, maybe you'll make millions off it.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

It would never work in a loadcenter and you really wouldn't need it in a panelboard


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Lol lol


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Next72969 said:


> Lol lol


Exactly


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

If I saw someone putting panduit in a panelboard I'd take it from them and beat them with it.

You don't need zip ties, stickies, special bump outs, zip tie mounts either. Pull wire, cut wire to length, strip wire, hook wire to breaker, put cover on, walk away.


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## TQuade (Jan 22, 2010)

Only guys I ever see put panduit above their panels is fire alarm guys cause they put modules in them when I put fire panels in we run pipe start to finish


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## ButcherSlayer (Oct 4, 2013)

CFL said:


> I've never seen a wiring duct in a panelboard but it seems like a good idea. Other than the cost, does anyone see a reason why this would be a bad idea? My helper told me the other day that you can't ty wrap conductors in a panel, which I disagree with, but it got me thinking of a better way to do things. A wiring duct would be quick, easy, and neat. It would allow future electricians to move, add, and troubleshoot circuits. What do you guys think?


Honestly I would like to see how this looks. Even if it's just an experiment. Like you said you just want to see if it looks better or looks neater. If u you do post some pics.Think outside the panel


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

CFL said:


> I've already been forced by the court. I've also been "forced" by my boss, but it is illegal for him to check on my progress so I never followed through on it.


May I recommend (hopefully w/out upsetting you),


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

brian john said:


> Tie wraps are a PIA.


:001_huh::001_huh::001_huh:


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> If I saw someone putting panduit in a panelboard I'd take it from them and beat them with it.


:lol: So now you have a bat and panduit in your arsenal. Thanks for the laugh man!!


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

CFL said:


> Thank you for clearing that up. Your opinion doesn't mean sshhiitt. I'm looking for a pro's opinion. You use this site for socializing, I come here for ideas or answers, not to make friends. So ffuucckk off.
> 
> 2.5 kids, what a douche. They let ffaaggotts adopt and get married in your parts? What a shame.


So you ask for opinions and get pissed off when someone doesn't agree with you, I think you are the 20 something on your smartphone.


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## Bobaker (Sep 15, 2013)

I found this gem the other day


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

pudge565 said:


> So you ask for opinions and get pissed off when someone doesn't agree with you, I think you are the 20 something on your smartphone.


No, I was pissed off because frunkslammer is an idiot and he started posting bullshhhiitt. Him not agreeing with me validates my idea. I don't even own a phone.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> It would never work in a loadcenter and you really wouldn't need it in a panelboard


The thing is, some people like to do clean, professional looking work. Half of the people on this forum don't care about neatness, or being professional. Or they just act that way on here, who knows. This argument is repeated on here every day. I do alot of service work, and I would say the majority of electricians out there either don't care about quality or they just suck at what they do.

Believe it or not some of us have the ability to do quality work just as fast or faster than alot of the sloppy, wannabe electricians out there.

I know I don't need it in a panelboard. I don't need to do alot of the stuff I do.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> May I recommend (hopefully w/out upsetting you),


 Sure, I would gladly wipe my ass with that.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

So, the wire inside the panel is messy, so you want to put it inside panduit?

What happens when the wire inside the panduit is messy, is it gonna get put in smurf-tube?

What if the wire in the smurf-tube is messy....?


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> If I saw someone putting panduit in a panelboard I'd take it from them and beat them with it.
> 
> You don't need zip ties, stickies, special bump outs, zip tie mounts either. Pull wire, cut wire to length, strip wire, hook wire to breaker, put cover on, walk away.


Oh, oh, hurry, everybody say thanks to Jlarson.

I know that's not how you do your panels. your full of shiit.

Keep knockin' my idea, you'll feel stupid when everybody's doin' but you.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Big John said:


> So, the wire inside the panel is messy, so you want to put it inside panduit? What happens when the wire inside the panduit is messy, is it gonna get put in smurf-tube? What if the wire in the smurf-tube is messy....?


split loom or spiral wrap comes after smurf tube ! I thought everyone knew that , lol ?


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> So, the wire inside the panel is messy, so you want to put it inside panduit?
> 
> What happens when the wire inside the panduit is messy, is it gonna get put in smurf-tube?
> 
> What if the wire in the smurf-tube is messy....?


No. Do you use cable ties in your panels? It just manages the wires, holds them in place, makes it look orderly.

I don't put smurf tube in my control cabinets, but I do use panduit.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Next72969 said:


> Lol lol


how gay


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

CFL said:


> No. Do you use cable ties in your panels? It just manages the wires, holds them in place, makes it look orderly.
> 
> I don't put smurf tube in my control cabinets, but I do use panduit.


 I do. And I guess the only thing I can say as far as the difference goes is that I'm a lot more likely to have to troubleshoot a control panel where neatness can be a real time saver, and there are also often many more wires than even the most packed panelboard.

I've got respect for guys who aren't afraid to try new tricks so by all means, post it. But personally I just put a few zip ties in panels and call it good: I don't see the labor/money savings.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> I do. And I guess the only thing I can say as far as the difference goes is that I'm a lot more likely to have to troubleshoot a control panel where neatness can be a real time saver, and there are also often many more wires than even the most packed panelboard.
> 
> I've got respect for guys who aren't afraid to try new tricks so by all means, post it. But personally I just put a few zip ties in panels and call it good: I don't see the labor/money savings.


I don't think it would save money, labor yes. My point is the labor might offset some of the cost.

I'm just gonna try it once regardless of what everybody says.


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