# agitate cycle



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Got a call to check out lights flickering when washing machine agitates only. I see the lights dim when it starts like normal. But then it starts a slight pulsing. Aluminum wiring, dedicated 20 amp circuit. Federal Pacific panel(with AL branch circuits) Anyway checked all the normal things. Found the service neutral a little loose but not the issue. It was affecting all the lights downstairs. different circuits too. Pulling 8 amps steady. My guess is the washing machine itself. Any one run across anything similar? And yes I sent them a proposal to change the panel. :whistling2:


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## Jbird66 (Oct 26, 2010)

I have noticed the same thing with the newer higher efficient appliances. 

Does the light happen to be on a dimmer. I have noticed dimmers make the lights act a lot worse. You might check for loose connections on the Hot legs also and call the Power company to check their connections.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

This could be a loose connection issue and this ahould be investigated, utilizing a DMM at the panel. 

In addition this could be a VD issue.

Light flicker (dimming and restoration of light to near pre-flicker level) of lights from motor inrush) is a byproduct of several factors and generally is difficult to over come.

AC motor loads (in particular compressors) but all motor loads have inrush currents. These inrush currents result in voltage drop in the branch circuit, panel bus, service laterals, utility transformer and possibility the utility HV feeders.

Flicker is in addition user dependent; some people are more susceptible to flicker. For some reason flicker seems to bother women more that men (based upon personal experience).

A Voltage Drop (VD) as little as 3 volts on a nominal 120 VAC system is noticeable (by me), 2.5% VD.

We have had cases were the VD was all a byproduct of primarily single phase 120 VAC loads, in these cases we were able to put the lighting on L1 and all the motor loads on L2, the HVAC compressors were something the homeowner had to live with. This minimizes the flicker.


To test for this VD and resulting flicker to determine the source of the inrush, use a min max amp clamp and min max multimeter at the main service watch the lights(it may take two workers) and correlate to the meters.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Got a call to check out lights flickering when washing machine agitates only. I see the lights dim when it starts like normal. But then it starts a slight pulsing. Aluminum wiring, dedicated 20 amp circuit. Federal Pacific panel(with AL branch circuits) Anyway checked all the normal things. Found the service neutral a little loose but not the issue. It was affecting all the lights downstairs. different circuits too. Pulling 8 amps steady. My guess is the washing machine itself. Any one run across anything similar? And yes I sent them a proposal to change the panel. :whistling2:


How old is the washing machine? if old it may just about ready to bite the dust

Did you watch for Voltage varyations while it was in the agitate cycle?

Is it all the lights in the whole house? or just the downstairs.

If it is the whole house it could be the tranformer on the street is maxed out.

Hope they let you get rid of all that Aluminum wiring

Before the Fire:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I would unplug the washer and take a voltage reading.

Then I would plug in a good size load, a space heater or maybe a hair dryer etc and see what the voltage reading does when you load the circuit, it it plummets I would look for loose connections.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Jbird66 said:


> I have noticed the same thing with the newer higher efficient appliances.
> 
> Does the light happen to be on a dimmer. I have noticed dimmers make the lights act a lot worse. You might check for loose connections on the Hot legs also and call the Power company to check their connections.



One light is the rest are not. I did recommend him to call POCO and ask for a recorder to be installed to see if they have a problem on their end.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> How old is the washing machine? if old it may just about ready to bite the dust


Maybe 2 years old but that does not mean it is not the problem



HARRY304E said:


> Did you watch for Voltage varyations while it was in the agitate cycle?



When I said it pulled 8 amps steady that meant that I watched it as it ran and also checked voltages and for loose connections in panels and receptacle. And ONLY the agitate cycle causes it to happen.:blink:



HARRY304E said:


> Is it all the lights in the whole house? or just the downstairs.


Seemed to just be downstairs but different circuits and PHASES.:001_huh:



HARRY304E said:


> If it is the whole house it could be the tranformer on the street is maxed out.



I think it could be washer or poco. But IDK so thats why I'm posting here.





HARRY304E said:


> Hope they let you get rid of all that Aluminum wiring
> 
> Before the Fire:laughing:



The aluminum has been pigtailed with copper. It will probably still be there when I die. It's the FP panel that scares me. I did include a price to run a copper circuit to the washer with the panel estimate.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

brian john said:


> This could be a loose connection issue and this ahould be investigated, utilizing a DMM at the panel.
> 
> In addition this could be a VD issue.
> 
> ...





Thank you for the great info you share here.:thumbsup: I will be doing so checking before I change the panel.


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## wayne g (Nov 28, 2010)

Al wiring as branch circuits was a bad choice by the code panel it appears to create many problems mostly with the high drawing circuits. Maybe with the washer due to expansion and contraction (due to heat) of the connections it could very well cause the lights to flicker. I like your idea to run a separate 12/2 copper branch circuit for the washer.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I _hate _flicker cases with a passion, they are such a pain in the ass, because like Brian said some notice it more than others.

So the lights are pulsing and going dimmer and back to full bright, they aren't getting brighter than normal though right?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I _hate _flicker cases with a passion, they are such a pain in the ass, because like Brian said some notice it more than others.
> 
> So the lights are pulsing and going dimmer and back to full bright, they aren't getting brighter than normal though right?



No not any brighter than normal.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Tell the homeowners to blink their eyes in time with the lights and they'll never notice the flicker.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> No not any brighter than normal.


You already checked for loose connections at the panel and recep and found nothing right? I would use an extension cord and move the washer around to different circuits and see what happens.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> You already checked for loose connections at the panel and recep and found nothing right? I would use an extension cord and move the washer around to different circuits and see what happens.



I plan to hook a receptacle into the panel outside and run a cord to the washer.
Try it on both phases too. My first thing is to replace that FP panel.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I plan to hook a receptacle into the panel outside and run a cord to the washer.
> Try it on both phases too. My first thing is to replace that FP panel.


Sounds good.


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