# insulated staples vs non insulated



## ElectricMon (Jan 17, 2018)

I know there is an upside in places that require listed fasteners but i was wondering what about ease of use and speed. Do you stab your finger nails less with insulated enough that it would justify the double cost for them? What about in difficult spaces does having the little nails on them make it easier to hammer in since you're not spreading your force against the whole staple?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Regular old staples for professionals an insulated staple does nothing for those that know what they are doing.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I can't recall ever using an insulated cable staple.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Myself and another inspector have this ongoing argument about insulated verses non-insulated staples.
He swears they should be code as they will reduce afci issues. I say they are not the problem and the use of them is a design/installer preference. I am a firm believer that if a person knows how to use regular non insulated staples there should be no issues.

Seriously when I got into the trade back in '82 I was taught how to drive a staple. I mean I was taught how to drive it straight and how not to drive it too far in !

Maybe instead of dumbing down everything ,we should just teach people how to do it correctly.........................


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

manchestersparky said:


> Myself and another inspector have this ongoing argument about insulated verses non-insulated staples.
> He swears they should be code as they will reduce afci issues. I say they are not the problem and the use of them is a design/installer preference. I am a firm believer that if a person knows how to use regular non insulated staples there should be no issues.
> 
> Seriously when I got into the trade back in '82 I was taught how to drive a staple. I mean I was taught how to drive it straight and how not to drive it too far in !
> ...



I think it depends on how you are taught as well. I was taught by a small shop, custom homes. We stapled as we wired. 
Worked for another big Ressidential outfit that wired as fast as they could and sent the first year guys to staple later with little supervision. Looked terrible and always had problems.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Staple driving is resi electrician 101. Like what you learn on your very first day. While I've had service calls related to overdriven staples, I think I can count them on one hand. It's not really a problem that requires solving by the use of insulated staples or anything else. Once you get it through a guy's head that the staple is just to hold the cable roughly in the center of the stud and not to secure it against the zombie apocalypse, you can use the regular uninsulated Viking staples electricians have used since the Roman times. :smile:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> Myself and another inspector have this ongoing argument about insulated verses non-insulated staples.
> He swears they should be code as they will reduce afci issues. I say they are not the problem and the use of them is a design/installer preference. I am a firm believer that if a person knows how to use regular non insulated staples there should be no issues.
> 
> Seriously when I got into the trade back in '82 I was taught how to drive a staple. I mean I was taught how to drive it straight and how not to drive it too far in !
> ...


Agree 100%, there is no need to go all gorilla on staples!


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Could be an area thing .... but I always thought the insulated staples, and the 2 nail type were a DIY product.

Funny how someone will drill 3/4" holes for a single 14/2 run, but then want the staples good and tight


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Could be an area thing .... but I always thought the insulated staples, and the 2 nail type were a DIY product.
> 
> Funny how someone will drill 3/4" holes for a single 14/2 run, but then want the staples good and tight


Me too. The only place I've even seen the 2-nail type and the wire type with the rubber dipped crowns was at the DIY stores.


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## ElectricMon (Jan 17, 2018)

Well I've seen them some in Idaho but no one really uses them in Washington here. I was curious because they aren't all that special but I could see some ergonomic upsides to not having a staple bend or stabbing your finger as you get at it in a difficult spot such as by ducts.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Staples, hell just use _electricians_ duct tape, or perhaps a big wad of electricians gum.:vs_closedeyes:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i've always thought that plastic staples were amateur. but in some circumstances they are easier such as in tight spots and they dont bounce as much on TGIs


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## SummitElectric1 (Aug 8, 2016)

Whenever I see insulated staples used to fasten NM cable I usually find a few Carlon boxes with tape on the yellow wire nuts.

The place I usually see insulated staples is in the unfinished part of a basement sometime after an unlicensed contractor completed the finished basement.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I use plastic staples all the time. Love them!


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## ElectricMon (Jan 17, 2018)

99cents said:


> I use plastic staples all the time. Love them!


Do you use the kind that are listed for stacked romex all the time or switch it up between the cheaper ones that only can do one and the stacker ones?


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## John M. (Oct 29, 2016)

I use insulated staples, too. There have been degrading remarks here about those who use them...as if it is unprofessional. You do need to learn how to staple romex, but even for a pro, the insulated staple gives added protection. I use the King 06022 staples


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

ElectricMon said:


> Do you use the kind that are listed for stacked romex all the time or switch it up between the cheaper ones that only can do one and the stacker ones?


Are these what you're talking about? I put two 14/2's or 12/2's under these. I don't know if they are approved for two cables but I do it all the time.

If somebody calls me unprofessional for using them, I don't care. They're better than those stamped steel ones with the shoulder. Those things suck donkey ballz.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If you're having problems banging in staples, buy a good hammer. Estwing hammers have magic inside of them. They hit straight every time. Made in America too  .


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I was once told ( and I don't buy it) that
these plastic ends on the staples 99 just posted
reduce AFCI nuisance tripping cause (allegedly)
they prevent arcing across the neutral and hot
(which according to this person saying this meant 
magnetically).


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> If you're having problems banging in staples, buy a good hammer. *Estwing hammers have magic inside of them. They hit straight every time. Made in America too*  .


Not sure about the made in America part any longer, I know from calling them that they don't warranty the stacked leather handles now, if they crack it's on you.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I was once told ( and I don't buy it) that
> these plastic ends on the staples 99 just posted
> reduce AFCI nuisance tripping cause (allegedly)
> they prevent arcing across the neutral and hot
> ...


Was it the same guy who puts a pre-hung door in front of a sub?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> I was once told ( and I don't buy it) that
> these plastic ends on the staples 99 just posted
> reduce AFCI nuisance tripping cause (allegedly)
> they prevent arcing across the neutral and hot
> ...


I could buy into the first part of that statement due to over driven staples.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

It’s very rare for me to run rope. 
I would rather use the plastic ones these days and save myself the grief of over pounding the staples. It’s just not worth it, I would rather spend my free time insuring trim screws are verticals.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

99cents said:


> Was it the same guy who puts a pre-hung door in front of a sub?


No , it was the same guy who said receptacle 
outlets are supposed to be installed every 6'.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> It’s very rare for me to run rope.
> I would rather use the plastic ones these days and save myself the grief of over pounding the staples. It’s just not worth it, I would rather spend my free time insuring trim screws are verticals.


horizontal...verticle is so retro


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

lighterup said:


> horizontal...verticle is so retro


I know it’s retro,,, but atleast the paint will run out the slot after I leave. 
I’m always thinking of the next poor sap following behind me fixing my pretwisted splices.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> I know it’s retro,,, but atleast the paint will run out the slot after I leave.
> I’m always thinking of the next poor sap following behind me fixing my pretwisted splices.


Paint, dust, debris, etc......j/s


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Just make your own staples:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> I know it’s retro,,, but atleast the paint will run out the slot after I leave.
> I’m always thinking of the next poor sap following behind me fixing my pretwisted splices.


:devil3:You do work up here don't you?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just make your own staples:


:vs_OMG: razer blades and roofing nails...:vs_laugh:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

lighterup said:


> :devil3:You do work up here don't you?


Yup, I’m north of Chicago. 
You understand,, stuff always flows downhill.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just make your own staples:


Now that is very impressive. 
Maybe I should steal it and pretend I did it. Oh the stories I could weave at break time.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

We use insulated staples 100% of the time on romex.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> Yup, I’m north of Chicago.
> You understand,, stuff always flows downhill.


your in lake Michigan?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

```

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lighterup said:


> your in lake Michigan?


Every morning I drive down the beach front watching the sun rise. 
This morning I had to stop twice in the middle of the road. First for a deer meandering across. Then a bunch of them stupid geese standing around looking stupid.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

In the northern Kentucky area, the plastic staples are a local code requirement.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Staples with the two nails and a plastic strap between, or just with some sort of insulating material?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> :vs_OMG: razer blades and roofing nails...:vs_laugh:


You missed the 10d common.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> Every morning I drive down the beach front watching the sun rise.
> This morning I had to stop twice in the middle of the road. First for a deer meandering across. Then a bunch of them stupid geese standing around looking stupid.


Goose breast tastes just like beef, makes a nice stew.


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## ElectricMon (Jan 17, 2018)

nrp3 said:


> Staples with the two nails and a plastic strap between, or just with some sort of insulating material?


ya just like the ones 99cent showed.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Now that is very impressive.
> Maybe I should steal it and pretend I did it. Oh the stories I could weave at break time.


Just ask the guys to save you their old razor knife blades, then you can fill them in as to why.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

as an electrician in Massachusetts for 2-3 decades ( how depressing) I've never seen non insulated staples because they have been allowed.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

two-nail staples are easier to get in to old, old house lumber, which is sometimes hard as hell.


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

farmantenna said:


> as an electrician in Massachusetts for 2-3 decades ( how depressing) I've never seen non insulated staples because they have been allowed.



Me neither. I think it all depends on where you are as to what the "norms" are


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

farmantenna said:


> as an electrician in Massachusetts for 2-3 decades ( how depressing) I've never seen non insulated staples because they have been allowed.


I didn't know they had insulated staples 30 years ago.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

I like these ones. However I don't go out of my way to get them.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

99cents said:


> Are these what you're talking about? I put two 14/2's or 12/2's under these. I don't know if they are approved for two cables but I do it all the time.
> 
> If somebody calls me unprofessional for using them, I don't care. They're better than those stamped steel ones with the shoulder. Those things suck donkey ballz.


99 how much do those cost you at westburne? I pick up 300 of these for under $15 when they go on sale but those you posted look better.
I find that the nails are too long with the GB's and if I am going into 1/2" ply on concrete, the nails bottom out before seating into the plastic.


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## Neo151 (Apr 5, 2021)

99cents said:


> Are these what you're talking about? I put two 14/2's or 12/2's under these. I don't know if they are approved for two cables but I do it all the time.
> 
> If somebody calls me unprofessional for using them, I don't care. They're better than those stamped steel ones with the shoulder. Those things suck donkey ballz.


Hi! Its hilarious to listen to all these neanderthal old sparkys that are afraid to update their thinking.
It's common sense, is it not?
That it is a very strong mechanical fastener with the correct plastic against insulation.
Its still connected by one or two wood tack nails or a u nail.
It eliminates all the crimping and crushing of the insulation due to over depthing.
It eliminates eventual destruction of the insulation from friction by the fastener.
Its much easier to install. It looks way better also!!
Oh yeah , like you said those fence post style dinosaur days u nails/Staples suck donkey balls .
So I guess, so do the morons that use them.


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## Neo151 (Apr 5, 2021)

Arrow3030 said:


> I like these ones. However I don't go out of my way to get them.


Excellent choice.
Guess what the bonus is?????
Wait for it...........
U can get manual staple guns that fires those as ammo.
Big increase in production.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

back in 2018 (when this thread was new) I hammered in several or more old-timey staples

no problems so far (or for that matter, none from most that I drove in the previous 40 years)

and I've still got some of the money from hammering them in (probably around 18%)

gee I'm such a moron


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Neo151 said:


> It eliminates eventual destruction of the insulation from friction by the fastener.
> 
> Oh yeah , like you said those fence post style dinosaur days u nails/Staples suck donkey balls .
> So I guess, so do the morons that use them.


How fast is your cable moving relative to your fastener that you have a friction issue?
Also, I bet you make friends real easily, what with your cunty, judgemental statements by way of introduction.


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