# Arc Fault issue



## damonjensen (Jan 25, 2015)

Hi all. I'm having an issue with a living room arc fault. The issue seems to be when the home owner runs a vacuum sealer on his kitchen circuit it trips the living room arc fault. I've replaced the arc fault with a new one and I seem to encounter the same issue when the vacuum sealer is ran. This is a kitchen circuit that is on the opposite phase and come nowhere near contact except in the main panel. Has anyone had this type of experience and if so what were your solutions?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Put either circuit on a different leg. Sometimes that works.


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## damonjensen (Jan 25, 2015)

I've tried that. Their on opposite phases now so I'm curious if I'm going to need to use an isobar receptacle or some sort of filter.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

And what is an 'isobar' receptacle?


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## damonjensen (Jan 25, 2015)

Surge protector type of receptacle that has an rfi/emi type of noise filter


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

A house we wired about 7 yrs ago. 
2- 200 amp Eaton BR main panels in garage.
1 - 100 amp sub panel on opposite side of house for CAC and a few 110 circuits.
If any breaker in the sub trips, it causes all the AFCI breakers in the main feeding it to trip as well.:001_huh:


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## damonjensen (Jan 25, 2015)

Aftershockews how do you explain to the homeowner that it's the technology in the arc fault and not your wiring? That's the hard part I'm having. This guy looks at me like I'm trying to pull one over on him when it's his own vacuum sealer causing the problems....


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Apparently these type of problems are becoming the "Check Engine Light" of residential electrical contracting. Good Luck!


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

We were working on a duplex and the arc fault was tripping in one side. We tracked everything down and even went so far as to get a arc fault circuit tester from seimens. Actually found that the problem was in the neighbors laptop charger and it was backfeeding across the common neutral bar in the meter can. I hate arc faults.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

When I finish a job, I like to do a walk-through with the customer, showing him his dimmer switches, shiny new panel, blah, blah, blah and then I zero in on arc fault breakers. I tell him that they're temperamental, good in theory, etc., and he may have to change the way he does things. That way, when he does have problems, he is expecting them and is less likely to start finger pointing.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

3D Electric said:


> We were working on a duplex and the arc fault was tripping in one side. We tracked everything down and even went so far as to get a arc fault circuit tester from seimens. Actually found that the problem was in the neighbors laptop charger and it was backfeeding across the common neutral bar in the meter can. I hate arc faults.


That story alone is enough to outlaw them. What if a smoke detector is on that circuit? So much for safety...


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

3D Electric said:


> We were working on a duplex and the arc fault was tripping in one side. We tracked everything down and even went so far as to get a arc fault circuit tester from seimens. Actually found that the problem was in the neighbors laptop charger and it was backfeeding across the common neutral bar in the meter can. I hate arc faults.


Did you determine exactly what the charger was putting on the neutral? Spikes,harmonics,arcs,etc.? I haven't seen the Siemens tester,does it have a display or LEDs.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Spunk#7 said:


> Did you determine exactly what the charger was putting on the neutral? Spikes,harmonics,arcs,etc.? I haven't seen the Siemens tester,does it have a display or LEDs.


It was the fold out prongs on the charger that was causing a small arc that tripped the breaker it was a nightmare


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Spunk#7 said:


> Did you determine exactly what the charger was putting on the neutral? Spikes,harmonics,arcs,etc.? I haven't seen the Siemens tester,does it have a display or LEDs.


The Siemens tester we used had led lights and a wand. You can hook up the circuit in question to it and follow it throughout the home and find where the arc fault is.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

1) Remove AFCI.

2) Smash with hammer until it's unrecognizable small bits of plastic.

3) Replace with regular breaker.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> 1) Remove AFCI.
> 
> 2) Smash with hammer until it's unrecognizable small bits of plastic.
> 
> ...


Fify......:thumbup:


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## Lukeetal (Oct 13, 2010)

1) move the vac sealer to a different circuit, if it still trips, you are done! Hand customer a bill for service call.
2) swap the breaker again and check the grounding in the circuit.
3) amprobe the vac sealer at the outlet and breaker. Put an equal load on the circuit to test breakers ampacity. 
4) check the grounding and bonding of the house.
5) check the service connections.
6) use a piece of Romex as a temporary home run and isolate each part of the branch. 

I could argue these might not be in the best order but you will find the source this way.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

3D Electric said:


> It was the fold out prongs on the charger that was causing a small arc that tripped the breaker it was a nightmare


Y'know, I've got a laptop that arcs every time I plug it in if the computer is plugged in first. When I leave the computer unplugged, plug in the charger then the laptop, no arc.

Come to think of it the vacuum arcs every plug in too. Is this the arc that causes these to trip? What can be done to prevent the arc?


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

MTW said:


> 1) Remove AFCI.
> 
> 2) Smash with hammer until it's unrecognizable small bits of plastic.
> 
> 3) Replace with regular breaker.


One of the few times I agree with you 100%. :thumbup::laughing:



LARMGUY said:


> Y'know, I've got a laptop that arcs every time I plug it in if the computer is plugged in first. When I leave the computer unplugged, plug in the charger then the laptop, no arc.
> 
> Come to think of it the vacuum arcs every plug in too. _* Is this the arc that causes these to trip? What can be done to prevent the arc?*_


Yes and nothing, other than following MTW's advice above. :thumbsup:


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## Circuit Tracer (Feb 5, 2015)

I've had the same kind of problems with siemens arc fault breakers. What brand is it?

Mike


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## damonjensen (Jan 25, 2015)

The one in dealing with is a Siemens. I sure wish I could find fault in the wiring or a damaged conductor but as it is now I'm still in search of a solution....


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## Circuit Tracer (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi Damonjenson,

Try using a Cutler Hammer or Square D Arc Fault Breaker. I know they are not listed for the Siemens panel, but this may solve the issue. I've had problems with false tripping with Siemens Arc Fault Breakers.

Mike


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

3D Electric said:


> We were working on a duplex and the arc fault was tripping in one side. We tracked everything down and even went so far as to get a arc fault circuit tester from seimens. Actually found that the problem was in the neighbors laptop charger and it was backfeeding across the common neutral bar in the meter can. I hate arc faults.


Take this time to read my signature:


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