# Fairly new apprentice



## Ryanking (Mar 28, 2010)

I've been doing commercial electric work for about 7 months now, but over half of that time was spent on a four man light crew, where all I learned was some very simple wiring. My dad has been doing electric work for about 25years, and it's needless to say he is an exceptional electrician, but even though we work for the same company,I don't work with him very often so I haven't been able to learn much other than what I can pick up on my own. I start school in august but I was wondering what I should try to learn on my own to get a leg up in class?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

everything you come accross in class, learn thoroghly, so that you understand the principles behind it, and not memorizing stuff you don't understand. follow behind it by learning the codes and where they are in the book. later on this will help you.

don't believe everything you are told verbatim (consult multiple sources and keep an open mind, cause nobody knows everything and some guys work their whole life without understanding exactly how somethings work).


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Write down terminology that you hear on the jobsite and in class and research it on your own. Become an expert (in knowledge, at least) on everything you overhear.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

When someone starts preaching code to you, be careful. Some guys will preach the wrong information. Always verify in the code book. 
When your working on something at work, look it up in the code book at night. Read about it. This way you can relate to what your reading and will be thinking about the code the next day when doing the work. 

I did that for years and thats one way I learned my way around the code book. I still will look up items in the evenings or spare time during the day just to refresh.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> When someone starts preaching code to you, be careful. Some guys will preach the wrong information. Always verify in the code book.


Ain't that the truth. If I had a nickel for every time someone (including some inspectors) told me something was "code" and it actually wasn't, I'd be rich.


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## petek57 (Mar 3, 2009)

Great advice


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## petek57 (Mar 3, 2009)

*Take stuff apart*

You get discarded or defective devices on the job? Take them apart at home. Now you will know not only what they are, but exactly how they work. Start your own little home lab. 

Good things to take apart..
starters
relays
gear driven disconnects
circuit breakers


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Some formal education out there is overpriced.

You'll do most of your learning on the job, I haven't come across much in text books that I've had much opportunity to apply to my day to day job. A code book is good to have. If you're performing the same tasks over and over, look into the code book and see if what you're doing is even to code. Some electricians follow their own logic and turn their noses up to code, or even job specs.


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## BadContact (Mar 28, 2010)

The best advice I could give to an apprentice is to take in ALL information given, but then go and verify it on your own.

There is a wealth of information that the older guys could give you, stuff that will stick with you and help you thruout your career. On the other hand, those same guys with the tips and tricks might give you complete BS code references. 

Look it up yourself to be sure, but don't say anything to them or else they'll never try to help you again.

I can't tell you how many times I've just sat there holding my tongue while listening to 30 year veterans talking about completely false code issues. Just the other day in an OSHA class I overheard a pair of journeymen talking about how you have to bond the inlet and outlet of a water heater. When I asked for a code reference one of them said "Haven't you read 250!" and a couple other guys in the class agreed that it is required...

All I'm saying is to be on guard.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

wildleg said:


> don't believe everything you are told verbatim


More often then not the second hand information you get is wrong or partially wrong. Just nod your head yes then look it up later so you know how it's done.


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

Ryanking said:


> I've been doing commercial electric work for about 7 months now, but over half of that time was spent on a four man light crew, where all I learned was some very simple wiring. My dad has been doing electric work for about 25years, and it's needless to say he is an exceptional electrician, but even though we work for the same company,I don't work with him very often so I haven't been able to learn much other than what I can pick up on my own. I start school in august but I was wondering what I should try to learn on my own to get a leg up in class?


 
You have a gold mine of information with your old man. What I have done is some of the things I've seen on the job that confused me or that I didnt understand I would write down and ask some one later. It would help clear a couple of things up and you know your Dad will be straight up with you.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Ryanking said:


> I've been doing commercial electric work for about 7 months now, but over half of that time was spent on a four man light crew, where all I learned was some very simple wiring. My dad has been doing electric work for about 25years, and it's needless to say he is an exceptional electrician, but even though we work for the same company,I don't work with him very often so I haven't been able to learn much other than what I can pick up on my own. I start school in august but I was wondering what I should try to learn on my own to get a leg up in class?


You have probably learned, by now, that the majority of the electrical trade has to do with mechanical. Conduit, strapping, making joints. Concentrate on what the more learned people around you are doing and the classroom stuff will make a lot more sense.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Welcome to the forum.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

manchestersparky said:


> When someone starts preaching code to you, be careful. Some guys will preach the wrong information. Always verify in the code book.
> When your working on something at work, look it up in the code book at night. Read about it. This way you can relate to what your reading and will be thinking about the code the next day when doing the work.


 That is great advice.:thumbsup:


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Come to this site and ask questions and read other posts. Most here are some of the smartest you will see and interact with.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Come to this site and ask questions and read other posts. Most here are some of the smartest you will see and interact with.


Especially me.


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## knomore (Mar 21, 2010)

It's cute to know the theory behind electricity, and how things work on the inside... but when you get in the field I could care less if you know why things work, but rather you know how to make them work. IE. can you wire a drive without blowing it up, and can you do layout work and not screw it up.

If knowing the left hand rule helps you run pipe and pull wire then I'm all about it, but if you got on my job site and only had book knowledge your worthless to me. What I'm trying to say is... school is great, but what you learn in the field is what you really need to pay attention to. 80% of what I do every day I learned in the field, 15% I learned in collage (business major), and the other 5% is pure bs.


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## PDX-SPARKY (Mar 5, 2010)

If you haven't already, learn OHMS LAW and remember it so that you can do it in your sleep. Study up on some simple circuitry and Series/Parallel circuits. Whenever there is a mention of a code reference either in class or on the job write it down and look it up, this will help you immensley not so much as remembering the code but it does help you remember where to look in the code book if need be. Oh and finally study the hell outa Trigonometry. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Good luck with class and have fun... Finishing up my first year of class in June.


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## Jeffdeg84 (Apr 2, 2010)

LEARN TO BEND CONDUIT!
If you don't already know, then learn. As a foreman for a large company, I can't tell you how valuable this is. I can find any Joe Blow to pull MC, but I have a very hard time finding someone that can run conduit. It amazes me how many "electricians" don't know how to bend an offset!


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## AWKrueger (Aug 4, 2008)

Jeffdeg84 said:


> LEARN TO BEND CONDUIT!
> If you don't already know, then learn. As a foreman for a large company, I can't tell you how valuable this is. I can find any Joe Blow to pull MC, but I have a very hard time finding someone that can run conduit. It amazes me how many "electricians" don't know how to bend an offset!


In your experience do you find it better for guys to know the formulas to bend conduit properly or do you think its sufficient to pretty much eyeball it and have it look neat?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

AWKrueger said:


> In your experience do you find it better for guys to know the formulas to bend conduit properly or do you think its sufficient to pretty much eyeball it and have it look neat?


In my experience, I'd say that I don't care how it gets done. It must look right and get done in a timely manner.


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## AWKrueger (Aug 4, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> In my experience, I'd say that I don't care how it gets done. It must look right and get done in a timely manner.


 
Without wasted conduit, excessive couplings etc....

I've had my boss complain about use of 1-hole straps to get things looking level on runs with alot of bends.

I would think you would spend more time using the proper formulae if you didn't know them like the back of your hand. It's the concentric bends on racked conduit that gets me...


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I wouldn't even know how to bend a concentric - my foreman would flip if he saw me trying anyway.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I would prefer, however, that a guy learned how to bend pipe the proper way (with measurements and math) before he move on to the eyeball method. The guys that have bent conduit forever by eyeballing have a harder time going "backwards" and learning to do it right. 

You're pretty much forced into measurements if you have a rack of conduits, just to get things to look right. And, yeah, if you're using the straps to make up for ****ty bend skills, you really need to learn to do it right.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nolabama said:


> I wouldn't even know how to bend a concentric - my foreman would flip if he saw me trying anyway.


I do segment bend every once in a blue moon when obstructions require an unusual bend. That's maybe 10 times in my entire career.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Nick bends by the eyeball method, and cannot bend by formula - and will not bend a saddle. He has me do it, I don't know if he cant or just wont.


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## AWKrueger (Aug 4, 2008)

I definetly have alot to learn.


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## Jeffdeg84 (Apr 2, 2010)

AWKrueger said:


> In your experience do you find it better for guys to know the formulas to bend conduit properly or do you think its sufficient to pretty much eyeball it and have it look neat?


Formulas are what I like to see. Now I am all for someone eyeballing it if they can get it right. But how often is this? 90% of the time, the guy eyeballing his bends will end up tweaking his bends over and over again, not to mention using excessive couplings, and kinks in the conduit from tweaking. By the time he gets it right, it would have been just as quick to take a few measurements, and bend it correctly.

Lets take an electrical room for instance. A guy that can only eyeball(or rarely uses formulas) would have a hard time running a rack of 20 conduits out of a panel, and making it uniform. Where as the guy using formulas could take a few measurements from a ladder when he gets started, and basically bend all 20 on the ground before climbing back on the ladder to install them. The only reason for cutting the conduit would be due to a bend landing on the end of the stick of conduit...

Thats just my two cents though... :thumbsup:

I would like to hear everyone elses comments and what they prefer!
-Jeff


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## 3phase (Jan 16, 2007)

As for conduit bending, I use the Benfield book.


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