# Advice on certificates please.



## holstein (Jan 23, 2014)

Could anyone help me with some advice about commercial premises please ?

There is a local social club that an elderly friend of mine frequents and it would appear to be run in a very slap-dash manner and I am concerned about whether it is a safe environment for him and others. It is a very old building and while I don't frequent the place very often it always looks as if the place is unloved. The plumbing is diabolical with leaks in toilets etc. but my main concern is that the electrical wiring may not be up to the required standard.

I should add that it is a drinking establishment. I suspect that there are standards for electrical installations in such premises which I presume have to be tested on a regular basis. And so my initial questions are what are those standards, who carries out any required testing, and who administers and monitors any such standards ?

It is a community owned establishment and I am becoming increasingly concerned about the safety of visitors to the club and to the validity of any insurance covering visitors and to the fabric of the building.

Thanks to anyone in advance who will help me with this concern that I have.


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## great68 (Dec 31, 2012)

There is no statutory requirement in this country for inspections, however the manager/owner has a duty of care for the patrons/premises and may not realise they would be personally legally responsible if something was to go wrong. 
The local council would be involved with things like emergency lighting, fire alarms and exit signs though . I find its only when the insurance company asks for a report, an inspection gets done.


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## holstein (Jan 23, 2014)

great68 said:


> There is no statutory requirement in this country for inspections, however the manager/owner has a duty of care for the patrons/premises and may not realise they would be personally legally responsible if something was to go wrong.
> The local council would be involved with things like emergency lighting, fire alarms and exit signs though . I find its only when the insurance company asks for a report, an inspection gets done.


Thank you very much for that. Would it be the case that without any kind of electrical certificate that any insurance would be null and void ? And can you tell me what the certificate is called please ? As you may have guessed, I am a little concerned about the sloppy existing management. Thanks again.


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## great68 (Dec 31, 2012)

If the installation is old ,the original 'Installation certificate' is probably not worth anything, that is if it even exists. A periodic test should be carried out every 5 years maximum and a 'Electrical instalation condition report' (EICR) issued. This will have only 'Satisfactory' or 'Unsatisfactory' on its front page. 
Some establishments that have dancing, alcohol or entertainment licenses often need more regular checks. The insurance may only be null & void if a report has been asked for, but not done. Unfortunately in this country it seems people are not bothered about electrical safety 'Well it works, why are you telling me its no good' is the norm. I know of 2 cases in the last few years of deaths in houses due to poor electrical maintenance and the landlords walked away claiming they didn't know, wern't aware.


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## holstein (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks again for that information. I am surprised that there isn't a requirement for regular testing. I am not connected with the electrical trade whatsoever (I hope that doesn't bar me from this Forum) but I have been in business for many years and in my area of activity we have to jump through many hoops to prove that we are operating in a safe environment and that we do not pose any threat to members of the public. 

And I am absolutely certain that the electrical environment has the potential to create far less safer environments than the one I am involved with.

The fact is that I just don't know where to go now. I am very concerned about the integrity of the electrical wiring and the fire escape routes and signs. Which is the public body that would normally oversee such things ?

Once again many thanks for your help.


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## great68 (Dec 31, 2012)

Over the last few years with all the penny pinching from the government, the onus of fire alarms, Emergency lighting, fire routes and general health and safety has been taken away from the local council, fire brigade etc and put onto the owners/operators of buildings.


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## great68 (Dec 31, 2012)

Only last week there was a parliamentary debate about electrical training, safety, testing etc & regular inspections was being pushed forwards. I am not sure how far it got.


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## holstein (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks once again for all the help and advice given. I have to say that I am amazed that whenever I go into a restaurant, department store, supermarket, or any other public place that there aren't statutory requirements as far as public safety is concerned.

There are employees at these premises, surely they must be safeguarded by some legislation somewhere ? I have public liability insurance which covers me for any harm that visitors to my premises might encounter, even if it was the result of sheer stupidity on their part.

You may have guessed by now that I am very concerned about the safety of patrons whilst on these premises. I have heard something about a PAT test. Is this a test just for appliances as opposed to the cabling and electrical infrastructure of the premises ?

Thanks again for your help.


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## great68 (Dec 31, 2012)

PAT, Portable appliance testing.


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## septiclecky (Oct 17, 2008)

great68 said:


> There is no statutory requirement in this country for inspections, however the manager/owner has a duty of care for the patrons/premises and may not realise they would be personally legally responsible if something was to go wrong.
> The local council would be involved with things like emergency lighting, fire alarms and exit signs though . I find its only when the insurance company asks for a report, an inspection gets done.


Think you will find there is otherwise the club or other premises similar would not be granted a licence by the local authority to allow the club to run sell alcohol etc


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## great68 (Dec 31, 2012)

septiclecky said:


> Think you will find there is otherwise the club or other premises similar would not be granted a licence by the local authority to allow the club to run sell alcohol etc



Please show me proof that it is a legal requirement to have testing carried out, as it will generate a lot of work for me.


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