# Trimming Someone Else's Rough



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

First off, would you even consider doing the trim for final after someone else did the rough-in? Even when they pretty much crapped the whole thing up? 
How much time would you allow for about a 900 sq ft. house, two bedrooms, 1-1/2 baths, small kitchen, normal stuff?

I was asked to look at trimming out this small house for the final. The permit has already been pulled. This was red flag #1, the owner/flipper probably pulled it as a homeowner. I couldn't tell how the switches were made up, no method if any, that I've seen before. None of the homeruns are marked, some outlets need to (or owner wants) be moved, which would require removing or cutting the drywall. Hole for bath exhaust needs cutting. No smokes in the bedrooms, just in the hall outside the bedrooms. Stairway down to the basement has no light or 3-way switch. It's just a steep narrow set of steps into the unfinished, dirt floor basement, which the owner called a crawl space.
I honestly don't know how this place passed the rough, inspector must have been sick and wanted to get it over with. There is no way it should have passed.
On top of that, the owner is telling me what he will or wants to pay. He told me what others said they would do it for and I wouldn't even pull on site for that amount. The guy called me and said he needed this done quick and was willing to pay by the hour. He just didn't say how much per hour.
I asked why the guy that did the rough didn't finish it and he said he ran him off. I think this whole deal is a red flag, and I'm sure not going to touch it unless he agreed to my price, then with most of it down. Something is not right when he says everyone is too busy to help him. I think they ran like I'm going to.


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## Pinoysparky (Feb 23, 2012)

With a works hard to obtain I'm doing it if it's available.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*?*

that sounds weird? Trimming someone else's rough that is

Yes, many times. Usually they got paid too much and left the job. I just pull a new permit.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'd certainly be interested.

What will blow the 'customer' away is my price. What they will not be able to comprehend is 1. I need to verify every piece of cable installed (i.e., megger it all), 2. I need to figure out how and why it was wired this way by the previous installer, 3. I will need to add or change something because it's not to Code, and 4. I'm taking full, legal responsibility for the job.

It's NOT just a matter of slapping in devices and calling it good. Of course, that's what the HO will think needs done, and will end up hiring some jackleg from Cl to git 'er done.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Cletis said:


> that sounds weird? Trimming someone else's rough that is
> 
> Yes, many times. Usually they got paid too much and left the job. I just pull a new permit.


I don't think the problem was getting paid too much from what the guy told me he has paid in the past for getting the entire house wired. I think he's been hiring "Hank the handyman" and pulling the permits himself, or someone in the family as a homeowner. I think this last guy got in over his head from the looks of his rough and the owner said it did fail the first time. I think the other guy realized he lost his shirt on the rough and bailed. I don't know how you could trim one out after doing the rough yourself the way this guy did it.

Edit: I'm not saying I would never finish one that someone else started, just not one this bad and for what he wanted to pay.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

I would not do it. I am just not that desperate for work.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Cletis said:


> that sounds weird? Trimming someone else's rough that is
> 
> Yes, many times. Usually they got paid too much and left the job. I just pull a new permit.


 Cletis he said "Ruff" not "muff"


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I'd certainly be interested.
> 
> What will blow the 'customer' away is my price. What they will not be able to comprehend is 1. I need to verify every piece of cable installed (i.e., megger it all), 2. I need to figure out how and why it was wired this way by the previous installer, 3. I will need to add or change something because it's not to Code, and 4. I'm taking full, legal responsibility for the job.
> 
> It's NOT just a matter of slapping in devices and calling it good. Of course, that's what the HO will think needs done, and will end up hiring some jackleg from Cl to git 'er done.


I was interested enough to drive 30 miles to look at it. I would love to do a small house like that with no rush and other trades there.
I did explain to him it wasn't just sticking in the devices, I would have to check all the wiring, and identify what should have been marked. Also, to correct what should have been caught at the rough inspection.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Little-Lectric said:


> I was interested enough to drive 30 miles to look at it. I would love to do a small house like that with no rush and other trades there.
> I did explain to him it wasn't just sticking in the devices, I would have to check all the wiring, and identify what should have been marked. Also, to correct what should have been caught at the rough inspection.


 The real fun strarts when you go to install the three way switch and you only have two wires:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I'd certainly be interested.
> 
> What will blow the 'customer' away is my price. What they will not be able to comprehend is 1. I need to verify every piece of cable installed (i.e., megger it all), 2. I need to figure out how and why it was wired this way by the previous installer, 3. I will need to add or change something because it's not to Code, and 4. I'm taking full, legal responsibility for the job.
> 
> It's NOT just a matter of slapping in devices and calling it good. Of course, that's what the HO will think needs done, and will end up hiring some jackleg from Cl to git 'er done.





Little-Lectric said:


> First off, would you even consider doing the trim for final after someone else did the rough-in? Even when they pretty much crapped the whole thing up?
> How much time would you allow for about a 900 sq ft. house, two bedrooms, 1-1/2 baths, small kitchen, normal stuff?
> 
> I was asked to look at trimming out this small house for the final. The permit has already been pulled. This was red flag #1, the owner/flipper probably pulled it as a homeowner. I couldn't tell how the switches were made up, no method if any, that I've seen before. None of the homeruns are marked, some outlets need to (or owner wants) be moved, which would require removing or cutting the drywall. Hole for bath exhaust needs cutting. No smokes in the bedrooms, just in the hall outside the bedrooms. Stairway down to the basement has no light or 3-way switch. It's just a steep narrow set of steps into the unfinished, dirt floor basement, which the owner called a crawl space.
> ...


Just like Ken said.:thumbsup:

Also this is just a red flag all around you need to have the Electrical Inspector come out at the HO's expense and close out the previous permit and pull your own and price the job as if it was from scratch.


It sounds like this guy either wired it himself or he stiffed the first EC and that is why he wants it done fast..


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## Pinoysparky (Feb 23, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Just like Ken said.:thumbsup:
> 
> Also this is just a red flag all around you need to have the Electrical Inspector come out at the HO's expense and close out the previous permit and pull your own and price the job as if it was from scratch.
> 
> ...


Harry makes a good points. Usually owner provided the trim supplies on our job. Wages is payed daily inclusive of snack and jeep fare.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> It sounds like this guy either wired it himself *or he stiffed the first EC* and that is why he wants it done fast..


That was the first thing to come to mind when I initially read the OP.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I have finished a few jobs that were started by someone else.

Among the reasons (in no particular order):

1) Original electrician was incompetent and fired by homeowner
2) Original electrician died before job could be completed (happened more than once);
3) Original electrician went out of business/no longer available (but still alive)
4) Original electrician was stiffed by owner, and refuses to do any more work.

Reasons #1 and #4 would be cause for concern. #2-3 I'd do in a heartbeat.


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## Kev'71 (Feb 17, 2012)

Looked at a just trim it out job one time years ago, it was two story detached garage set up for an apartment. Started looking in switch boxes to see how everything was wired and found that all wiring was done in thhn...just individual single wire runs, no conduit. 

Gone in 60 seconds...or less.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Something I forgot to mention. All the homeruns were 12-2 and alot of the boxes had 14-2, not just switches and the smoke boxes. I would have to verify everything before I would know what breakers to install. I wouldn't worry much except on the circuits that require 20A. Some of this stuff had to have been done after the rough. I think even a blind inspector would have seen it.


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

I tried this once and will never do it again. The owner thought I was trying to run up the bill and was taking too much time. Like yours no switches were made up, things were missing and everything needed to be checked out to see where it went.

Run, don't walk.


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

We did a big rough years ago where the general stiffed us (first/last job for the guy). He also bailed on the home owner, who had to find another GC to finish the job. Then we get a call from the electrician "finishing" our job asking us for the fan trims (!!). Boss man says, "Sure! If you pay me $7,000 for them." We never heard back....

PS: The other guy got lucky, because we wired it & there wouldn't have been any problems. I hope.


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## davew (Feb 25, 2012)

Danger Will Robinson!!!

lol

If you must, then two things:

1) Make sure they know up front that you are gonna fix anything that you can see that doesn't work right.

and

2) Let them know up front that your warranty only covers the things you actually touch (and document what you do touch, with pics if you can)


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## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

This truely sounds like a "run away fast" job, but figure a cost...double it...and ask for 50% up front. If he says no, just walk


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Sounds like the inspector made a little midnight special here....that is the only way to play in this mess...no names..no faces..no papers..just cash-n-go.....half now half done...don't f-me or you'll have no power....there is always a taker...I don't do 'em know plenty of guys who do.. :whistling2:


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## Cypress2000 (Jun 26, 2011)

1. There is ALWAYS more to the story than you are being told.
2. 90% of the time MONEY ISSUES of some kind were involved.
3. You are NOT the first person who has been called to look at it.
4. You WILL be asked daily HOW LONG until you are done.
5. No one will "know" where any of the trim out material went.
6. The job WILL take you 50% longer than you think as it is 50% more screwed up than evident @ first look.

I have done these jobs. Usually, as we hear later, it originally went to the lowest bidder. Sometimes we had even bid on the work. We do these T&M ONLY until we have "hot-checked" everything and put eyes on every box, wire and installed item. Once we get it to where it becomes "just" a set & trim, we can give a price on the finish from there. That depends on client/builder attitudes(4. above) and timely payments of certified funds to that point. This goes directly back to items 1. & 2. above.


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

Once upon a time, I found an electrician's contact information on the note pad in a house I was working on (remodel, no permit, no license, long time ago). From that day forward, every time I left, I made sure there was something important undone. Switchleg missing, HR not pulled, just something I knew would take somebody a few hours to fix. It's never good if the EC knows they are about to be fired.

On the other hand, I was asked to give a price to finish a rough and trim the job out because the other EC was "taking too long". I walked the job with the homeowner (who is also and incompetent, yet still in business, GC), and told him how long the rough would take to finish, how long the trim would take, explaining that all the existing wiring would have to be verified. I did not tell him about the homeruns (just a couple) that were missing in the "completed" area, the wire that I suspected to be the wrong size for the AHU, or any thing else I saw that was wrong.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Podagrower said:


> Once upon a time, I found an electrician's contact information on the note pad in a house I was working on (remodel, no permit, no license, long time ago). From that day forward, every time I left, I made sure there was something important undone. Switchleg missing, HR not pulled, just something I knew would take somebody a few hours to fix. It's never good if the EC knows they are about to be fired.


Just leaving a switch leg unhooked at both ends will make a number of handymen scratching their head. Went back to finish out a porch once on the time that I scheduled and they had some handyman family member there. Had some words with the homeowner and on my way out said how does this light work because the light was on but switch was off. They screamed as I flipped it and left. He must have put white to white and black to black.:laughing:


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

We had a problem when things got slow guys off the street were trying to offer GC s to finish jobs for cheap. To avoid these I stopped marking wire in switch boxes and didn't label anything. My crew and I knew what they are because I had a system of how the wires went into the boxes. For someone to come in and try to figure out what everything was would take a load of time making it almost impossible to under cut me.


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## Svtlightning207 (Apr 2, 2012)

Ive recently done an estimate, where everything was roughed in, and nothing was finished. I gave a price of $750 to install 7 receptacles, wire in 15 lights, four switches, and tie in sub-panel and feeds. The previous "electrician" didn't even run three wire between the three way switches, or any three wire at all. and ran all lighting circuits with 12-2. I thought my price was fair, apparently he didn't. but as I always say, you get what you pay for, i'm sure he went with the cheapest bidder.


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## wesleydnunder (Mar 19, 2012)

I've done it once and wouldn't do it again. The job was so ****ed up it amounted to one long service call that wound up costing the customer more than if I'd wired it to start with.

It was a 4500 sq. ft two story garage/apt...gar. downstairs and 3 br apt. upstairs. Every time I handed the owner an invoice he cried like a baby. I can't tell you how many open splices I found in the walls and ceilings. His entire property (3500 sq. ft house, new gar/apt, boat house, tennis cts, cabana, etc) was fed by one 150A FPE panel. 

Just the new 400A service and new panels cost him $10K. 

Never again.

Mark


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