# Conduit Fill



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

GEORGE D said:


> Just wanted to clear up a few things here. I'm not close to my code book right now and wanted to know if branch circuits could be pulled in the same conduit as feeders, assuming there is enough capacity in the conduit. Also, can multiple feeders share a conduit?


Sure. You'd need to take into consideration the insulation voltage ratings of all the conductors, as well as possible derating issues.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes and yes.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I think alot of people confuse the fact that service conductors cannot share the same raceway as other conductors. Feeders and branch circuits are fine.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I think alot of people confuse the fact that service conductors cannot share the same raceway as other conductors. Feeders and branch circuits are fine.


Including me.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I think alot of people confuse the fact that service conductors cannot share the same raceway as other conductors. Feeders and branch circuits are fine.


is there a code article to back this up?
not saying your wrong.
for instance, on a 2 section panel i/we always use a separate nipple to pass branch circuits. 
its more or less common knowledge not to share, i never thought to doubt anyone.

my code book is at work, thanks


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

A feeder is just a large branch circuit


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Smoke said:


> is there a code article to back this up?
> not saying your wrong.
> for instance, on a 2 section panel i/we always use a separate nipple to pass branch circuits.
> its more or less common knowledge not to share, i never thought to doubt anyone.
> ...


NEC code for the most part tells what we *can't do*,not what we can do.

The code is safety driven per 90.1, and irritates me anytime they drift off, and start going into design issues...which they do occasionally.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Smoke said:


> is there a code article to back this up?


Yes there is.



> 230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable.
> Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable.
> Exception No. 1: Grounding conductors and bonding jumpers.
> Exception No. 2: Load management control conductors having overcurrent protection.


The part about feeders and branch circuits..... well there is no code that disallows it so it is okay.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

randas said:


> A feeder is just a large branch circuit


Hmm, sort of..


*Branch Circuit.* The circuit conductors between the final
overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet(s).

*Feeder.* All circuit conductors between the service equipment,
the source of a separately derived system, or other
power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent
device.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

randas said:


> A feeder is just a large branch circuit


In most cases it is larger however by definition it can be the same size. Picture this-- wire from a service panel goes to an a/c fusible disconnect. That wire is a feeder. Wire from the fusible disconnect is a branch circuit.

Now take out the fused disconnect and make it a non fused disconnect and the entire run is a branch circuit.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Even though feeders and branch circuits are allowed in the same conduit, it may not be the best idea.

The smaller branch circuit conductors may get damaged by the larger feeders during the pulling process.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

tkb said:


> Even though feeders and branch circuits are allowed in the same conduit, it may not be the best idea.
> 
> The smaller branch circuit conductors may get damaged by the larger feeders during the pulling process.


And the derating penalties will kill the ampacity of the feeder conductors.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

And if the ampacity of the feeder decreases, the feeder size might need to be increased, and once you do that the conduit size might also need to be increased.

And a round n round we go!


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> And if the ampacity of the feeder decreases, the feeder size might need to be increased, and once you do that the conduit size might also need to be increased.
> 
> And a round n round we go!


Wouldn't you increase the feeders and conduit when the ampacity increases not decreases?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Sparky3 said:


> Wouldn't you increase the feeders and conduit when the ampacity increases not decreases?


You are both saying the same thing. Magnettica is saying if the amp. of the feeder is reduced because of wire fill (derating) then the feeder must be larger.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

i may have wandered off the original question, but considering my situation im somewhat confused.
i wouldn't pull branch circuits with branch feeders (for any reason), but in a nipple, i am good?
or are we still debating.
thanks


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

You can put branches in with feeders in 100' of raceway or 4" of nipple but you will not have to derate the conductors in nipples under 24" 


So like you I might put them together in a short nipple but I stay away from it with full runs.


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