# Grounding gas meters???



## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Hey guys,
I had another electrician inspect one of my completed homes today after a lightning strike. His only concern was the gas line was not grounded. This caused great concern with me (obviously) but as I look at the NEC all if find is 250.104(b) stating my ECG for that circuit will suffice. Any input?. Obviously if it's an oversight I want to fix all issues now and not let them haunt me later. Thanks in advance for your input


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

*Grounding gas meters??*

Hey guys
I had another electrician inspect one of my completed homes today after a lightning strike. His only concern was the gas line was not grounded. This caused great concern with me (obviously) but as I look at the NEC all if find is 250.104(b) stating my ECG for that circuit will suffice. Any input?. Obviously if it's an oversight I want to fix all issues now and not let them haunt me later. Thanks in advance for your input. BTW I posted this on NEC code forum and got no answer. Sorry if I'm not supposed to do that


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

The type of piping will affect the answer. What type do you have?


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## Executive (Aug 11, 2012)

Older versions of the NEC had an article that required bonding of the metal gas piping system "upstream of the gas shut-off valve" this caused great confusion as it seemed to contradict 250.52(B)(1) which prohibits the use of a gas pipe as a grounding electrode.

In the 2011 NEC, 250.104(B) requires that "other metal piping", including gas piping, that is likely to become energized be _bonded_ to one of several possible points on the grounding electrode system. According to the 2011 NEC Handbook, "likely to become energized" means that failure of electrical insulation in or near a piece of equipment with an electrical circuit -metal piping system interface.

I would think that the EGC at each such piece of equipment (appliance) would suffice as the "grounding" your critic was looking for. I would, however check for non-metallic or insulating mechanical breaks in the gas system and install an appropriate jumper to insure a completely bonded system.

Hope this helps.

Chris


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> The type of piping will affect the answer. What type do you have?


Plastic to meter, flex from meter inside..with a union buried somewhere I assume. One pipe going in.
Typical home as follows.
Gas range
Gas lighting (outside only)
Gas HWT
Fireplace
Gas guy is ALLWAYS the last in on rough. (it is my interpratation that at union I must have bonding jumpers at supposed union)


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Executive said:


> Older versions of the NEC had an article that required bonding of the metal gas piping system "upstream of the gas shut-off valve" this caused great confusion as it seemed to contradict 250.52(B)(1) which prohibits the use of a gas pipe as a grounding electrode.
> 
> In the 2011 NEC, 250.104(B) requires that "other metal piping", including gas piping, that is likely to become energized be bonded to one of several possible points on the grounding electrode system. According to the 2011 NEC Handbook, "likely to become energized" means that failure of electrical insulation in or near a piece of equipment with an electrical circuit -metal piping system interface.
> 
> ...


Yes.. That is the same answer I have come up with. I (technically) should have a bonding jumper at unions but my "interpretation" here is my EGC for the appliance circuit will suffice


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

rnr electric said:


> "interpretation" here is my EGC for the appliance circuit will suffice


 
Not if there's CSST envolved it's not. You need a minimum of a #6 bond and some CSST manufacturers require a 250.66 bond.


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## niteshift (Nov 21, 2007)

The only conductor I've seen near a gas line/meter connection is from underground, it's only a tracer, cause of the non-metalic piping. Really can't recall seeing a steel piped gas line/meter grounded either. Never searched for one.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Bonding is required.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

With the new plastic to the meters and flex gas lines in the house are we just grounding the appliances again?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Theriot said:


> With the new plastic to the meters and flex gas lines in the house are we just grounding the appliances again?


We are bonding the piping. That's the same as we've always been doing. Some of the flex piping is required by manufacturers specs to be bonded above what the NEC requirements are.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

For the sake of simplicity, I merged these two posts.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

rnr electric said:


> Plastic to meter, flex from meter inside..with a union buried somewhere I assume. One pipe going in.
> Typical home as follows.
> Gas range
> Gas lighting (outside only)
> ...


 

Is there CSST in the house? (not appliance whips)


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Not if there's CSST envolved it's not. You need a minimum of a #6 bond and some CSST manufacturers require a 250.66 bond.


I'm sorry what is a csst.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

rnr electric said:


> I'm sorry what is a csst.


It's this stuff


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Is there CSST in the house? (not appliance whips)


All whips, (except maybe in this case.. Fireplace May be hard wired)


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

A few years old but the info is probably ok

http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2009/07/bonding-metal-gas-piping/


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> It's this stuff


Yes this stuff is involved, (we call it quickgas here) and does require a bond. But, from the hard pipe gas meter into the home this stuff is behind drywall. So the other electrician could not have known this.
But my question is what is bonding requirements at the meter, I ALLWAYS thought the gas company did this. Kinda like the phone co.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

rnr electric said:


> Yes this stuff is involved, (we call it quickgas here) and does require a bond. But, from the hard pipe gas meter into the home this stuff is behind drywall. So the other electrician could not have known this.
> But my question is what is bonding requirements at the meter, I ALLWAYS thought the gas company did this. Kinda like the phone co.


There isn't a bonding requirement at the meter. Bond the manifold where the csst's all branch out from.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> There isn't a bonding requirement at the meter. Bond the manifold where the csst's all branch out from.


Yes, I agree, that's what I was referring to as the union.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> There isn't a bonding requirement at the meter. Bond the manifold where the csst's all branch out from.


The manifold that is


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

The bonding requirement is a safety issue. Our inspector says actually its the responsibility of the one installing the gas line in the house. The reason for the bonding is because the stainless flex is a poor conductor of electricity and if a lightening strike occurs, it can blow pin holes (it has occurred) in the line and cause an explosion. I don't think it's an electrical code issue but a gas issue. The bond needs to be ahead of any csst in the structure.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

wendon said:


> The bonding requirement is a safety issue. Our inspector says actually its the responsibility of the one installing the gas line in the house. The reason for the bonding is because the stainless flex is a poor conductor of electricity and if a lightening strike occurs, it can blow pin holes (it has occurred) in the line and cause an explosion. I don't think it's an electrical code issue but a gas issue. The bond needs to be ahead of any csst in the structure.


Yes, i agree. Gas code 301.1.1 ( I think).. Shall be bonded with not smaller with a #6awg. Gas code here not NEC. So who would be responsible? I wonder


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

rnr electric said:


> Yes, i agree. Gas code 301.1.1 ( I think).. Shall be bonded with not smaller with a #6awg. Gas code here not NEC. So who would be responsible? I wonder


The way our state electrical inspector put it, if they want to hire you to bond their gas line for them that's fine, but you are not responsible for it.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

wendon said:


> The way our state electrical inspector put it, if they want to hire you to bond their gas line for them that's fine, but you are not responsible for it.


Agreed, however I don't mind doing it.. But the gas guy is allways behind me. So I don't know where his manifolds are,nor do I know what is going to BE gas. I always prewire for 120/240 v even if I think it's gas. On gas lights I will cut in a box and cap off wires at the light and blank off switch leg.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

wendon said:


> The way our state electrical inspector put it, if they want to hire you to bond their gas line for them that's fine, but you are not responsible for it.


 
I agree with that call, but several other states (NC is one of them )have made it the EC's responsibility.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

While the bonding of the CSST with a #6 or larger is required by the manufacturer's instructions and by a rule in NFPA 54, the Fuel Gas Code, it is not required by the NEC. When the proposal was made to CMP5 to require this bonding, it was rejected because there is no technical substation that says this bonding will solve the problem with CSST and lightning.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I agree with that call, but several other states (NC is one of them )have made it the EC's responsibility.


Same here though I'm long gone before one piece of gas is installed. It's always fun to make another trip for grounding the gas. I have left number 6 enough to reach anywhere there was going to gas and a clamp already on the copper and the plumbers still won't put it on their pipe and turn a screw.


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