# Re: 'Pump Pliers'. Reasons I prefer Knipex to ChannelLock brand



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

*Re: 'Pump Pliers'. Reasons I prefer Knipex to ChannelLock brand*

*Advantages of Knipex:*
1. *Better steel*. (Chrome Vanadinium Tool Steel).
2. *Hardened better*. (Higher Rockwell).
3. *Teeth stay sharper*, much longer.
4. *Don't pinch your fingers*. (There is a stop built in so even when jaws are closed, handles are still open enough to prevent pinches, knuckle-busters, and blood blisters).
5. *They grip like a pipe wrench*, unbelievably well !! , without having to squeeze the sh-t out of the handles.

*Disadvantages of Knipex:*
1. Not as well suited to using the back of the head for hammering.
2. Do not open QUITE as far as ChannelLocks for the same comparable size (ie. 10").

*Advantages of ChannelLocks:*
1. Made in U.S.A. (Knipex - Germany).
2. Less expensive.

My experiences:
In a food processing plant with steel, stainless and aluminum that was washed down nightly with some corrosive chems, the Knipex could *and did* break loose nuts, bolts, screws, pipes, and nearly everything else that I know the ChannelLocks would have slipped off. Even bolts that had rounded off corners that a wrench would not grab, and the round surface of regular screw heads, even the threads if thats all you could grab, like a stud.

When I started (my career) as a helper to the Head Mechanic/Millright at a precision tool and die shop ChannelLock was the no-brainer, no-other-choice pliers (except for copies of ChannelLock's arc-groove tongue-and-groove pliers).

I used ChannelLocks there for the entire 9 years I was there until the plant closed. When I started as a Technician/Machine Mechanic/Electrician at a ground beef processing and packaging plant previously mentioned, our Lead Tech and Maint Director showed his Knipex Alligator pliers to me. It only took a few uses to realize that I wanted a set for myself. (Sears sells them in 3-piece sets - 7", 9", 12"). 

I retired my ChannelLocks 12" and have not used them since. I am a first year IBEW Inside apprentice. I am using my Knipex on job sites and have had a couple JW use them and comment on how well they work and that they are lighter in weight. I have used them extensively for over 4 years now, they are still very sharp.

I may learn that the ChannelLocks have more advantages as I gain more experience as a Construction Electrician (Inside Wireman), but the Knipex's are staying for now. I carry the 10" and the 12", sometimes just the 10 & 7". Great for fittings/locknuts. 

*Oh, the CHANNELLOCKS that I DO take in my tool kit just in case are what I call the 'BIGASS Freakin' Pliers'. It is a set of 18 or 22" ChannelLocks. Worked great so far for tightening connectors for 2 1/2 EMT into C conduit bodies.*


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Knipex is a way better product than channel lock as far a slip joint pliers.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I agree with everything except this:


BP_redbear said:


> *Advantages of ChannelLocks:*
> 1. Made in U.S.A. (Knipex - Germany).


To me this is a non-issue. Especially since my Mother is a German immigrant.

Pretty much anything made there is IMO TOP quality and in my mind that's what counts.

Now if you had said Taiwan or China you'd have a totally valid point.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Being of German Swiss ancestry myself, I am very particular about Quality, especially my tools.

I hear ya, Speedy, Germans don't make junk, PERIOD.

Look at the Klein legacy...Mathias Klein emigrated here from Germany...:thumbsup:


----------



## Stan Mason (Oct 30, 2008)

Knipex Is the only way to Go I think i own most of there tools


----------



## Lz_69 (Nov 1, 2007)

You can scratch disadvantage #2 if you get the 10" wide opening cobra pliers pn#87 01 250.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

The last expensive tool I bought was made in germany... I like to buy anything possible made in the USA, but if its made in germany, I have no problem and dont think twice about it because I know I am going to get a dependable tool that will last for many years.

~Matt


----------



## wptski (Jun 30, 2008)

Why are you guys using pump pliers, arc joint pliers, etc. to remove/install nuts, bolts and screws? That's improper use of that tool! Use sockets, open end, box wrench , nut drivers or even a adjustable wrench for that.

They have their place like on pipe or after somebody destroyed something using those pliers in the first place! There's nothing like grabbing a burred up nut with your bare hand!


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

I have seen more fasteners riuned with wrenches than with knipex pliers. One thing about their pliers is they grip like a pipe wrench (meaning they don't slip).

And, when grabbing a hex shaped fastener with the Knipex pliers, force is applied to THREE sides, not just TWO. The thing about wrenches, and even sockets, is that there is always some play, unless it's an adjustable wrench, and even they have some play, and are rarely paralell at the jaws, so they just push on the corners.

Knipex pliers (Alligator and Cobra) have the notches in the jaws that are the correct angle to fit on hex shaped items.


----------



## k2x (May 20, 2008)

TOOL_5150 said:


> The last expensive tool I bought was made in germany... I like to buy anything possible made in the USA, but if its made in germany, I have no problem and dont think twice about it because I know I am going to get a dependable tool that will last for many years.
> 
> ~Matt


The greatest German/American manufacturing story has to be C.F. Martin of Nazareth PA. Every Guitar out of that factory has had a lifetime warrantee from the days when Andrew Jackson was president and Texas was an independent sovereign nation... I bought one in 1971 for 500 bucks and Martin has probably spent a couple of grand tweaking it for me over the years. I've bought a few more since then. 

Yes a guitar is a tool for some people . for others it is a closet decoration.


----------



## wptski (Jun 30, 2008)

BP_redbear said:


> I have seen more fasteners riuned with wrenches than with knipex pliers. One thing about their pliers is they grip like a pipe wrench (meaning they don't slip).
> 
> And, when grabbing a hex shaped fastener with the Knipex pliers, force is applied to THREE sides, not just TWO. The thing about wrenches, and even sockets, is that there is always some play, unless it's an adjustable wrench, and even they have some play, and are rarely paralell at the jaws, so they just push on the corners.
> 
> Knipex pliers (Alligator and Cobra) have the notches in the jaws that are the correct angle to fit on hex shaped items.


A pipe wrench don't leave marks or burrs??

Try six-point sockets instead of 12-point. What do you do about torque specs too?

Those pliers may be good enough for a electrician's type of mechanical work but probably not for a 100% mechanical work.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

When I worked in a food processing and packaging plant, those Knipex pliers were used in combination with combination wrenches, sockets and ratchets. (My posts are not intended to mean that pliers are the only tools that were used). When the fasteners were corroded and siezed, the pliers were usually the best bet for getting it loose. Sockets tend to twist a little bit sideways, causing them to slip (especially when someone already tried with the open end of a combo wrench or a 12-point socket).

That plant is the reason that I purchase a full set of 6-point sockets and combo wrenches.

The Knipex pliers 'grip like a pipe wrench', they just don't 'leave marks like a pipe wrench' if they are used correctly.

When I worked in (two) tool & die manufacturing shops, sockets and wrenches were probably used more than the pliers.

Since I started my apprenticeship, I probably use my pliers more on conduit fittings and pipe than on fasteners, however when tightening a hex-head screw and nut, put a wrench on the head and Knipex pliers on the nut, turn the screw, works fine, doesn't ruin anything. Beats carrying two of each size of wrench or wrench and socket, or using an adjustable wrench (which were banned from use in the food plant due to their sloppy fit and tendency to round off anything they touched).

Just my experience.


----------



## headrec (Feb 25, 2008)

I love my knipex pliers. I have used them in place of socket or wrench and they do a great job. Like them a lot better then channellocks.


----------



## wptski (Jun 30, 2008)

BP_redbear said:


> When I worked in a food processing and packaging plant, those Knipex pliers were used in combination with combination wrenches, sockets and ratchets. (My posts are not intended to mean that pliers are the only tools that were used). When the fasteners were corroded and siezed, the pliers were usually the best bet for getting it loose. Sockets tend to twist a little bit sideways, causing them to slip (especially when someone already tried with the open end of a combo wrench or a 12-point socket).
> 
> That plant is the reason that I purchase a full set of 6-point sockets and combo wrenches.
> 
> ...


If the Knipex pliers are good enough for the type of work you do, that's fine. I seldom used pliers of any kind.

I didn't work out of a pouch or back pocket. My toolbox was on wheels with a handle to push/pull and probably was over 200 lbs. I also had a cabinet full of stuff that I didn't carry all the time. I retired on 4/1 after 35 1/2 years as a machine repairman in the auto industry.

I've found out that the people or trade that carries the least amount of tools try to use the wrong tool for the job. If I was around and seen this, I always tried to provide the proper tool!

I lost my visegrips a couple of years ago but never replaced them. I actually bought a pair of small arc-joint pliers for one speacial job but it didn't help any!


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

k2x said:


> The greatest German/American manufacturing story has to be C.F. Martin of Nazareth PA. Every Guitar out of that factory has had a lifetime warrantee from the days when Andrew Jackson was president and Texas was an independent sovereign nation... I bought one in 1971 for 500 bucks and Martin has probably spent a couple of grand tweaking it for me over the years. I've bought a few more since then.
> 
> Yes a guitar is a tool for some people . for others it is a closet decoration.


I understand you. I have quite a few of expensive guitars. [thats where all my money goes] 

~Matt


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

wptski said:


> If the Knipex pliers are good enough for the type of work you do, that's fine. I seldom used pliers of any kind.
> 
> I didn't work out of a pouch or back pocket. My toolbox was on wheels with a handle to push/pull and probably was over 200 lbs. I also had a cabinet full of stuff that I didn't carry all the time. I retired on 4/1 after 35 1/2 years as a machine repairman in the auto industry.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. When I was in the tool & die shops, I had a roll-away tool chest that was full (More like 300 to 400 pounds). That, _plus_ a benchtop tool chest, AND my toolbag that I carried nearly everywhere I went.

It's definitely an adjustment getting used to having ONLY the tool bag, and deciding what is necessary, what is 'nice to have', what will be used, but only rarely, and what will just not be used at all.

I have always been of the school of thought that tools have specific purposes and should not be used for other purposes (like prying with a screwdriver, or scraping or punching with it... or hammering with pliers...)

Reminds me of working in the food processing plant when a co-worker and I were repairing a conveyor's gearbox and drive chain. I always had a USGI M16 ammo mag pouch on my belt with a hammer hanging from one of the grenade loops and a basic set of tools in the pouch that I used each of EVERY day: Knipex pliers, 7/16 combo wrench, plus 1/2, 9/16, 10-in 1 Klein, control screwdriver, allen wrench set, 6 in pocket scale, knife. 
Anyway, the co-worker had my knipex pliers (new ones), and as he began to hammer with them on the side of a sprocket I said "wait, I don't hammer with those." (Not that you can easily damage or break Knipex pliers). He threw them down and gruffed "Well, you aint never been a farmer have ya?? You learn to use what you have at hand!".

Reaching to my side, I pulled out the hammer, and said "Hammer with this, or don't farmers use hammers??" We actually got along pretty good. This guy was the hardest worker I have ever worked with, although very rough on tools. From that time on, anytime he gave back a tool that he had used I would act like I was inspecting it, and I would say "Man, you scratched it!!" He would laugh, he knew I was both joking at him and me. It was especially funny when the tool was a wrecking bar and he was hammering on it.

Anyway, I do try to use the proper tool for the job, especially if a fastener or piece of equipment (or the tool) could be damaged by a tool's misuse. I have learned (still learning!) to balance this against the time it takes to stop and go fetch a different tool versus using what I 'have at hand'. I guess that's the farmer in me fighting with the precision machine tool tech/mechanic.

out


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Ever since my back started to give me issues I've not only loosened it so it virtually hangs off my a$$, thug style, but dropped the amount of tools I was toting as well. So while I'll try to prep my belt for what I'm doin', I don't always have the prime tool on hand, especially if I'm 20 ft up in a scissor lift.

I've used channels plenty of times to loosen large nuts, and have used them as a hammer once or twice.

I'll also buy anything German made. Quality products should be supported no matter where they're from. Bosch anyone?


----------



## Stan Mason (Oct 30, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Ever since my back started to give me issues I've not only loosened it so it virtually hangs off my a$$, thug style, but dropped the amount of tools I was toting as well. So while I'll try to prep my belt for what I'm doin', I don't always have the prime tool on hand, especially if I'm 20 ft up in a scissor lift.
> 
> I've used channels plenty of times to loosen large nuts, and have used them as a hammer once or twice.
> 
> I'll also buy anything German made. Quality products should be supported no matter where they're from. Bosch anyone?


Did you know that the Milwakie drills are made in germany?


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Stan Mason said:


> Did you know that the Milwakie drills are made in germany?


Had no idea, thought they were US made.

I'm not partial to any country of origin, though I do try to avoid some things (like tools) that are made in China.


----------



## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

I won't buy milwaukee anymore...side from their sawzalls. Their new drills are made in CHINA I'm so sick of made in china garbage


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

China owns you.


----------



## Marcus (Mar 30, 2010)

Is BP_Redbear a Knipex employee?


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Marcus said:


> Is BP_Redbear a Knipex employee?


I'm only a pleased customer.
I also own a Channellock cable cutters, 420, 440, and 460 water pump pliers.


----------



## Marcus (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm just kidding mate.. 

Do you guys have trouble with Channellock pliers ceasing up over there? Last 3 pairs I have had just get all stiff after about a month and the jaws wear out REALLY quick, which makes twisting up small conductors a REAL pain in the arse.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Marcus said:


> I'm just kidding mate..
> 
> Do you guys have trouble with Channellock pliers ceasing up over there? Last 3 pairs I have had just get all stiff after about a month and the jaws wear out REALLY quick, which makes twisting up small conductors a REAL pain in the arse.


Yeah, that's what I don't like about them, they get stuck if you don't keep them oiled and clean.

Knipex never do that.


----------

