# Dining Room Circuit



## jwjrw

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop
outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for
refrigeration equipment.
Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptacles
specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a
general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1),
Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.
Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration
equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual
branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.


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## Chas

Kitchen has 2 small appliance circuits apart from dining room circuit


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## jwjrw

Chas said:


> Kitchen has 2 small appliance circuits apart from dining room circuit



I should of said all dining room and kitchen outlets shall serve no other loads. My bad.


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## erics37

jw means that your dining room receptacles are required to be served by your 2 or more small appliance circuits. If your kitchen has 2, and you ran a separate circuit for your dining room receptacles, then it needs to serve those dining room receptacles only, and not lighting.


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## sparks134

Chas said:


> I was told today by someone that a diningroom circuit can not have any lights on it. Only receptacles. Is there anything in the NEC that states this and if so, which article. I was shocked when I heard this. It is one of the stupidest things I have heard.


I agree, it's stupid. But what can you do!


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## rkb185

Yes, this is rediculus. And not only that, but we now have to put arc-faults on all non dedicated circuits, and our inspectors consider dining room rec. non dedicated. We also do a lot of hud, multi-family jobs in which the so called dining room may only be one rec. which is a waste of a very expensive breaker.


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## B4T

It has a minimum of (2) 20 amp. SABC.. but you can have more circuits if the design calls for it..

But you still have to only use it for receptacles..


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## electricmanscott

rkb185 said:


> Yes, this is rediculus. And not only that, but we now have to put arc-faults on all non dedicated circuits, and our inspectors consider dining room rec. non dedicated. We also do a lot of hud, multi-family jobs in which the so called dining room may only be one rec. which is a waste of a very expensive breaker.


Might be time to read a code book. :thumbsup:


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## Dennis Alwon

I generally run one circuit for the dining room and breakfast nook. This avoids use AFCI on the kitchen counters.


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## bauler

CA just adapted the 2008 NEC. Haven't done a whole house for a awhile. Let see if I got this straight. You must put dining room outlets on one of the kitchen appliance circuits, and then it says elsewhere the dining outlets must be AFCI protected. Hmmm If you put it on the kitchen circuit there will be no AFCI protection and if you put it on its own ACFI it wouldn't be on the kitchen. Little confused. Have to break out the code book.


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## jwjrw

bauler said:


> CA just adapted the 2008 NEC. Haven't done a whole house for a awhile. Let see if I got this straight. You must put dining room outlets on one of the kitchen appliance circuits, and then it says elsewhere the dining outlets must be AFCI protected. Hmmm If you put it on the kitchen circuit there will be no AFCI protection and if you put it on its own ACFI it wouldn't be on the kitchen. Little confused. Have to break out the code book.



Your dining room receptacles are really just small appliance circuits. I just pull a dining room circuit and arc fault it. Or you could use gfi receptacles on kitchen counter top and arc fault the kitchen circuit.


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## dewarelectric

in canada dining room is seperate circuit only receptacles and its very clear and no such thing as a small appliance circuit only split plugs and 20a t gfci next to sinks seems like maybe were leading in this aspect ALL appliances need seperate circuits based on morals alone


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## bobelectric

Why would anyone want to put lighting and receptacles on the same circuit?​


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## BBQ

bobelectric said:


> Why would anyone want to put lighting and receptacles on the same ciruit?​


Because there is no reason not to. (Other than a few locations)


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## Dennis Alwon

bobelectric said:


> Why would anyone want to put lighting and receptacles on the same ciruit?​


You're kidding right?


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## bobelectric

No......


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## dewarelectric

*bob electric*

obviously you know what your talking about glad to see someone other than booksmart and concerned about there customers well being congrats


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## Dennis Alwon

dewarelectric said:


> obviously you know what your talking about glad to see someone other than booksmart and concerned about there customers well being congrats


So explain to me how install a light on a receptacle circuit has to do with concern for a customer. Think residential wiring for this one.


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## dewarelectric

ok well its you have any knowledge of arc faults seeing as you guys want them installed everywhere that would be one reason the other reason being why would you put a light on a recep circuit unless you had to or your greed inspired plus read the cec canadian electrical code


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## BBQ

dewarelectric said:


> ok well its you have any knowledge of arc faults seeing as you guys want them installed everywhere that would be one reason the other reason being who would you you put a light on a recep circuit unless you had to or your greed inspired plus read the cec canadian electrical code


Well I don't work under the CEC but I do work under the NEC and I can and do mix lighting and receptacles.


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## Dennis Alwon

dewarelectric said:


> ok well its you have any knowledge of arc faults seeing as you guys want them installed everywhere that would be one reason the other reason being who would you you put a light on a recep circuit unless you had to or your greed inspired plus read the cec canadian electrical code


You are the only one in this thread that uses the CEC so why would I read it. I don't see what AFCI's have to do with anything as they are required for recep as well as lights.


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## dewarelectric

ive read and installed in california have you ever read their code


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## dewarelectric

good thing the moderator reads all the codes lol cant wait for him to ban me for showing his laziness in learning


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## dewarelectric

think about heavy current draW ON UR PLUGS WHY WOULD YOU WANT YOUR LIGHTS TO GO OUT WHEN THE PLUG DOES


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## Dennis Alwon

dewarelectric said:


> ive read and installed in california have you ever read their code


The fact is you are saying that people who are wiring lights and receptacles on the same circuit are cheating their customers and don't read the code. Well, you're wrong-- California may have different amendments and different code cycles but you seem to think you know more about the NEC then we do. Please think before you attack others because you are way off base here.

There is nothing in the NEC that states we cannot put lights on with receptacles except for in certain areas such as kitchens, etc.


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## Dennis Alwon

dewarelectric said:


> think about heavy current draW ON UR PLUGS WHY WOULD YOU WANT YOUR LIGHTS TO GO OUT WHEN THE PLUG DOES


Now you are getting rude. Why do you want all your lights to go out at the same time. In a residence there is very little load on receptacles and if you wire the circuit with thought it is not an issue.


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## dewarelectric

i agree with you dennis alwon one hundred percent the fact im fighting is the actual code itself why dont we try to protect our own people more the cec is also full of flaws


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## Speedy Petey

dewarelectric said:


> good thing the moderator reads all the codes lol cant wait for him to ban me for showing his laziness in learning


Now this is just plain ignorant.


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## Speedy Petey

Dennis Alwon said:


> Why do you want all your lights to go out at the same time. In a residence there is very little load on receptacles and if you wire the circuit with thought it is not an issue.


I agree 100%.


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## dewarelectric

i didnt mean to attack but it is common sense that when our loads in our recep take the breaker down who in their right mind wants the lights going out too just saying how i wire with extra thought in mind there is no need to do the minimum


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## BBQ

dewarelectric said:


> good thing the moderator reads all the codes lol cant wait for him to ban me for showing his laziness in learning


You registered tonight and eight posts in you are posting the above.

Not a very clever troll.


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## Speedy Petey

dewarelectric said:


> i didnt mean to attack but it is common sense that when our loads in our recep take the breaker down who in their right mind wants the lights going out too just saying how i wire with extra thought in mind there is no need to do the minimum


Combining receptacle with lighting is no where near the "minimum". 

I'll reiterate, why would you want all your lights going out at the same time?

In a properly and thoughtfully wires home, WHAT are the real chances of a breaker tripping? And I do not mean a tract home with 15-18 receptacles on a circuit.


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## dewarelectric

hey bbq was i playing politics. no!!! im sure your very concerned with red and blue sides of fact me im not i prefer clear and safe i challenge you to a wire off r u a contractor or even schooled in anything try physics


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## dewarelectric

maybe you use the skill saw bam 15 amp i guess your standards are below the norm i dunno why would you put a plug on a light circuit


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## guest

dewarelectric said:


> hey bbq was i playing politics. no!!! im sure your very concerned with red and blue sides of fact me im not i prefer clear and safe i challenge you to a wire off r u a contractor or even schooled in anything try physics


You're trying really hard to be banned aren't you? 

BBQ is one of the LAST people on this forum you want to pick a fight with. 

Smartasses don't last long around here, so kindly watch your manners.

As for the original topic, I generally wouldn't put lighting on a receptacle circuit, but have no real problem with it. I agree that it is far worse to have ALL of the lighting on a single circuit.


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## dewarelectric

mxslick why is someone filtering what most people that wire should know do you understand why you dont want your light to go out if you plug something in or it that a moral concept that eludes you


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## Speedy Petey

dewarelectric said:


> maybe you use the skill saw bam 15 amp i guess your standards are below the norm i dunno why would you put a plug on a light circuit


Give it a rest already.


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## dewarelectric

ill give it a rest lol if you guys worked for me you would be fired we mostly do 5000+ sqft homes that are completely automated and your answers scare me for the mere fact that the industry has gone to ****


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## BCSparkyGirl

dewarelectric said:


> ok well its you have any knowledge of arc faults seeing as you guys want them installed everywhere that would be one reason the other reason being why would you put a light on a recep circuit unless you had to or your greed inspired plus read the cec canadian electrical code


WTF are you talking about. Light and recep on the same circuit are not forbidden in the CEC. Go back and re read it, sweetheart.


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## Dennis Alwon

BCSparkyGirl said:


> WTF are you talking about. Light and recep on the same circuit are not forbidden in the CEC. Go back and re read it, sweetheart.


Take him home with you will ya. :laughing:


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## BBQ

Dennis Alwon said:


> Take him home with you will ya. :laughing:




We love the Eeeeeevil Bitch way to much to stick her with this guy. :laughing:


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## Speedy Petey

dewarelectric said:


> ill give it a rest lol if you guys worked for me you would be fired we mostly do 5000+ sqft homes that are completely automated and your answers scare me for the mere fact that the industry has gone to ****


So we'd be fire for not agreeing with your backwards way of thinking. Guess what, with your attitude I doubt you'd last a day with me.

Oh, and I've wired my share of 5000+ sq/ft homes myself, along with retail stores, restaurants, etc. So don't think you are anything special.


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## guest

I think we need this: 










:laughing:


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## BCSparkyGirl

Dennis Alwon said:


> Take him home with you will ya. :laughing:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o19CaOSuD8


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## Speedy Petey

Oh, and the give it a rest comment was about the fact that all you are doing is repeating yourself trying to convince us you are right. Which you are not. :no:


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## dewarelectric

again with moral problems does anyone see that they should not put lights on the same circuit as recep its a pretty plain matter of fact issue have u ever trouble shot an arc problem with bulbs involved or even maybe you could wire a whole floor light circuit together and save cost on wire


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## Speedy Petey

dewarelectric said:


> again with moral problems does anyone see that they should not put lights on the same circuit as recep its a pretty plain matter of fact issue have u ever trouble shot an arc problem with bulbs involved or even maybe you could wire a whole floor light circuit together and save cost on wire


I think that last Molson put you over the edge. Now you are making NO sense at all.


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## BCSparkyGirl

dewarelectric said:


> again with moral problems does anyone see that they should not put lights on the same circuit as recep its a pretty plain matter of fact issue have u ever trouble shot an arc problem with bulbs involved or even maybe you could wire a whole floor light circuit together and save cost on wire


Many floors I wire have more than 12 lights on it, so you are incorrect as to do this as well. Bedroom lights are typically separate from bedroom recep, due to bedroom receps being on arc circuits, but the is not a gawd dang thing wrong with mixing lights and plugs anywhere else. Greed and morals have nothing to do with anything. Learn how to troubleshoot, and it's not exactly rocket science.


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## dewarelectric

alright guys i cave to the bc sparky girl but this convo has definately showed the sites awareness thanks from mit lol


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## Dennis Alwon

I'm done here-- we are just feeding into what he wants. I ain't obliging anymore.


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## dewarelectric

were not engineers or anything lol best of luck


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## racerjim0

And then every light on that floor goes out---brilliant.
I usually wire one AFCI per bedroom including the lights. If the breaker were to trip, the hallway has lights, no problem.


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## dewarelectric

oh by the way there is a gaw dam thing wrong with more than 12 anything on a 15 amp circuit


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## Speedy Petey

Chas, if you did not get your answer please start another thread. This one is done.


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