# Picked up some material for Monday



## zwodubber

11,000' of CAT6 for an office that is expanding. I have to get one more box on Monday because the supply house didn't have enough. 

Going to be 48 runs from the server room to cubicles yet to be installed and 3 offices. I meet with the furniture guy and start the runs monday morning. The walls have marks where they want data cables dropped.













Have to empty it in the garage because I have a lighting install tomorrow.












Some pics of the office space


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## HARRY304E

Looks like a fun job .

Are you going the have pictures of the server room?


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## erics37

Nice empty room! That would be really really nice.

We redid all the data wiring at the courthouse and other county buildings a couple years ago, I think we used up over one hundred 1000 foot boxes of Cat 6. A lot of it was weekend work too, but we had to fight office furniture and stuff the whole time


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## zwodubber

HARRY304E said:


> Looks like a fun job .
> 
> Are you going the have pictures of the server room?


I have pics of the existing room. The company bought the adjoining office space and took out the partition, lets just say what is existing is not pretty :whistling2:


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## zwodubber

Existing room... I'll be adding 48 runs from here to the open space


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## sarness

That's some long runs!


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## mikeh32

gonna keep that under 300 feet?


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## zwodubber

mikeh32 said:


> gonna keep that under 300 feet?


105' max


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## HARRY304E

zwodubber said:


> Existing room... I'll be adding 48 runs from here to the open space


Not that much room in there.


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## sarness

zwodubber said:


> 105' max


11 boxes of cable sounds like way too much then.


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## zwodubber

sarness said:


> 11 boxes of cable sounds like way too much then.


I actually meant 150' but we needed some CAT6 to keep in inventory because we were pretty much cleaned out.

We ordered 12 boxes to make life easier. I'll be pulling 48 runs in batches of 6 and 12 wires. The customer wants this done yesterday so we are trying to make the wire pulling as easy as possible.

They will only be charged for the wire used on their site.


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## sarness

Gotcha, much better then, multi pulls are good too, seen guys get burn through pulling just a couple cables.


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## rrolleston

That looks like a really fun job. Over 7k feet of cat 6. How long does something like this take?


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## jeffmoss26

Nice! Be sure to post some pics! What kind of jacks/panels are you using?


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## mikeh32

if you have mule string, use that. 

Works a lotbetter then pull string


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## zwodubber

didn't get to start this job till 1 because of a service call. Took final measurements, got the 13 low voltage mounting brackets in, and starting labeling wire for pulling tomorrow.

Some pics

Jacks, j-hooks, beam clamps, velcro wrap and bridles











mounting bracket











Labeling wire for the pulls


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## jeffmoss26

CAT32 j-hooks?


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## zwodubber

jeffmoss26 said:


> CAT32 j-hooks?


Yes 4" hooks and 2" bridles for branches


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## jeffmoss26

What brand are you using for jacks and patch panel?


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## jontar

*Cat 6*

Hi

I haven`t done comm. wiring for over 8yrs, I only do industrial and high volts now, why use cat6 in such a small building, do they need 1 gig plus or is it the sheilded cross in the middle is what they are after, for crossover(talk) or something

Just wondering as we use cat5e for ethernet, and ethernetIP up to 1 gig, we tried cat6 only twice, 300ft runs and if we have to go that fast we use 6 ch fibre in an orange teck cable.

thanks Jon


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## zwodubber

jontar said:


> Hi
> 
> I haven`t done comm. wiring for over 8yrs, I only do industrial and high volts now, why use cat6 in such a small building, do they need 1 gig plus or is it the sheilded cross in the middle is what they are after, for crossover(talk) or something
> 
> Just wondering as we use cat5e for ethernet, and ethernetIP up to 1 gig, we tried cat6 only twice, 300ft runs and if we have to go that fast we use 6 ch fibre in an orange teck cable.
> 
> thanks Jon



The customer specified that cat6 be installed. If they want to pay for it I'll put it in


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## mikeylikesit5805

Wow looks really good! I do a lot of work on smaller office that that 3-8 computers normally. In the Akron area, just found this site.


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## jontar

oh. ok 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't install cat6, I was just wondering why, from the pictures it looks like a smaller office building, so I was wondering if there was some special reasoning behind it, here in Alberta I'd be surpised and some of the big commerical (towers, huge depot store) guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but its generally cat5e (sheild and non-sheild) and if thats not good enough it straight to fibre. There is cat6 and i think either cat6x or 7x out there but not alot, that I know of. Most of the time for 1 gig was just use cat5e, and put repeaters ( boosters) in it.


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## stuiec

We did cat 6 in a tower last year. Not even 1/4 floor, but they spec'd it so we put it in. They also spec'd dedicated neutral for every cct.


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## zwodubber

jontar said:


> oh. ok
> 
> I'm not saying that you shouldn't install cat6, I was just wondering why, from the pictures it looks like a smaller office building, so I was wondering if there was some special reasoning behind it, here in Alberta I'd be surpised and some of the big commerical (towers, huge depot store) guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but its generally cat5e (sheild and non-sheild) and if thats not good enough it straight to fibre. There is cat6 and i think either cat6x or 7x out there but not alot, that I know of. Most of the time for 1 gig was just use cat5e, and put repeaters ( boosters) in it.


Yeah cat5e is pretty much our standard install, I'm not really sure why they wanted 6. Its a mortgage company so I really can't see the need for it.


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## sarness

mikeylikesit5805 said:


> Wow looks really good! I do a lot of work on smaller office that that 3-8 computers normally. In the Akron area, just found this site.


So your the one taking all my work!


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## Edrick

I hate installers who are still putting in Cat5e it's not even to spec anymore.


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## mikeh32

cat6 is needed due to voip


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## BBQ

mikeh32 said:


> cat6 is needed due to voip


Interesting, both our offices are using voip on Cat 5 with no issues at all.


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## BBQ

Edrick said:


> I hate installers who are still putting in Cat5e it's not even to spec anymore.


Whose spec?


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## jeffmoss26

Nobody says you can't run cat5e. Our whole office is cat5e and it works perfectly on gigabit, I still install cat5e for my customers unless they want cat 6.


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## mikeylikesit5805

same here. Cat5e unless they ask for something else


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## sarness

mikeh32 said:


> cat6 is needed due to voip


You can run VoIP over cat3 if ya wanted, cat5 is just fine, 5e better, 6 eventually well need all that bandwidth, but not for VoIP.


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## jeffmoss26

We run voip JUST FINE over cat5e...full gigabit.
so much misinformation!


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## mikeylikesit5805

sarness said:


> So your the one taking all my work!


Haha, I wish. Been real slow lately. Been doing some sub for for other guys around.


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## sarness

mikeylikesit5805 said:


> Haha, I wish. Been real slow lately. Been doing some sub for for other guys around.


Lucky you, I keep putting myself and work out there, but rarely a nibble. Sure would like to sub out for a few more people.


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## mikeylikesit5805

Sorry to hijack the thread! Cant wait to see the finished pictures.


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## sarness

mikeylikesit5805 said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread! Cant wait to see the finished pictures.


I'd like to see it too, as for hijacks, that's nothing new around here!

Back to our regularly scheduled on topic posting!


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## mikeh32

When in a business application, with a lot of traffic, if you do not run cat6e and run voip, your network is ****ed.


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## Edrick

I can't cite a code that says its not to "spec" however amongst IT persons and professionals in the data cabling world it's pretty much agreed upon. Most companies I use to purchase parts from don't even stock 5e anymore because it's not worth it. I know very few people who will actually by conscious decision install 5e. The only ones I know in fact that still do as SOP is electrical contractors and archaic security / POS (point of sales) companies.

Hell all the patch cables I see sold these days are cat6.


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## sarness

I'm confused, cat5e can run 1gb, cat6 runs 1gb, 10gb switches are just starting to make an appearance. You don't need 1gb let alone 10gb to run VoIP.

A T1 line, which is 1.5mb can handle 24 voice channels. Transmitting voice requires at most 64kb, that's kb, not mb. Even with overhead its less then 100kb that's .1mb or .0001gb.

Yes, some VoIP phones have a built in switch that you can plug your computer into so you don't need to run another cable. Even so you can still run the computer and VoIP phone on 5e, 6 just gives you future growth options.

At one time then even said that 5e wouldn't do 1gb, yet now it does, who's to say it can't go faster yet?

And just to throw this out there, I went to an old job I wired to add some new runs, they replaced the switch with a gb switch. Original wiring was cat5, not 5e, and they were getting gb connectivity.


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## Edrick

That there is your problem just because the computer says "gigabit connection" your real world throughout isn't. For facilities that actually need reliable gigabit you're not going to get away with cat5e. Cat5e is only gigabit "capable" for short runs.

Good luck getting any standard length run to certify at gigabit speeds.


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## sarness

Edrick said:


> I can't cite a code that says its not to "spec" however amongst IT persons and professionals in the data cabling world it's pretty much agreed upon. Most companies I use to purchase parts from don't even stock 5e anymore because it's not worth it. I know very few people who will actually by conscious decision install 5e. The only ones I know in fact that still do as SOP is electrical contractors and archaic security / POS (point of sales) companies.
> 
> Hell all the patch cables I see sold these days are cat6.


And that's very true, 6 is the newest thing and what is being pushed, no fault in that.

But saying you must use cat6 because your running VoIP is snake oil talk.

I'll install whatever the person I'm working for tells me to, I'm working for them. As for myself, I'll run 6 or 5e thats plenum rated.

I also always install jacks, but boss today said to put plugs on the end so that's what I did. Not how I would do it but eventually a patch panel is going in, just not right now.


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## Edrick

I personally said nothing about needing cat6 to run VoIP. Hell there's many many networks that employ cat5e and run phone networks. 

I'm also not saying cat5e doesn't work, what I'm saying is its no longer a current technology. Cat6 has been in use in installs since 2001. Only the ones who are inept to change are still actively installing it or they have a boss inept to change. 

Any networking person worth his degree will tell you 5e is not to gigabit spec for distances. There a different between what that little computer icon tells you and what is truly available. Cat6 is designed to reject more noise and interference to actually get gigabit speeds.

Even cat6 isn't 10gig spec, you need 6A 6ex or 7 for that


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## sarness

Edrick said:


> That there is your problem just because the computer says "gigabit connection" your real world throughout isn't. For facilities that actually need reliable gigabit you're not going to get away with cat5e. Cat5e is only gigabit "capable" for short runs.
> 
> Good luck getting any standard length run to certify at gigabit speeds.


I won't argue with you on that, I don't have access to a certifier anymore, so its possible as to those problems. Logs on the switches however report few errors and retransmission.

I recall some kids that connected two houses together, something like 800' apart, (100mb connection, 1gb copper wasn't around yet) throughput was only 18mb or so.


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## sarness

Sorry Edrick, I wasn't directing it at you, only to the remarks others made saying cat6 is a must have to run VoIP.


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## BBQ

mikeh32 said:


> When in a business application, with a lot of traffic, if you do not run cat6e and run voip, your network is ****ed.


That is really a not true.


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## chewy

BBQ said:


> That is really a not true.


If its not, selling fibre to the desktop networks is one hell of a scam :laughing:


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## Edrick

chewy said:


> If its not, selling fibre to the desktop networks is one hell of a scam :laughing:


Fiber networks now you're old school, next thing you'll be telling me is you're not using plasma networks for your power. 

Nuero networks is where it's at.


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## jeffmoss26

Edrick,
Not sure where you buy material but all of my supply houses sell both cat5e and cat 6 products. I don't consider what consumer stores sell as I don't buy from them.
I will agree that cat 6 has its place, and if people are willing to spend more, so be it.


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## mikeh32

you guys are all electricians right? 

any ccne, ccnp, or dces here?


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## mikeylikesit5805

lve got my ccna.... working on ccnp and cisco security


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## BBQ

mikeh32 said:


> you guys are all electricians right?


I am part of a large EC that has a service division, a construction division and a Tel/data division.

The company installs 100,000s of feet of cat 3, 5e and 6.

Yes, cat 3 some customer specs still desire it for POTs.


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## Edrick

jeffmoss26 said:


> Edrick,
> Not sure where you buy material but all of my supply houses sell both cat5e and cat 6 products. I don't consider what consumer stores sell as I don't buy from them.
> I will agree that cat 6 has its place, and if people are willing to spend more, so be it.


That's the thing supply houses stock it because electricians still purchase it. Network suppliers however for the most part do not usually have it from what I've seen especially in patch cables.

Although my beef is not with people who install it because the client speced it. I was refereeing to people who actively install it in new installs by choice. 

If you're concerned about cost then you're buying from the wrong place.


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## jeffmoss26

I'm a network administrator and I do computer work/cabling on the side.
Always thought about getting Cisco certified but haven't. My day-to-day stuff is mainly desktops and servers.
Edrick, I stock and use cat5e and have no plans to change that. My customers are small businesses and residential, they arent transferring gigs of files at a time.
At work we've had no problems with gigabit on cat5e even with some distance involved.


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## mikeylikesit5805

Jeff, sounds like I am in the same boat at you. I am a network admin as well. But luckily I get to go setup new jobs every so often (about one a week). When a job starts they setup a temporary office. I go in an setup the phones/network and VPN back to the office. Nice mix of getting my hands dirty and being a cubicle monkey.


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## zwodubber

Some pics from this job. I keep getting pulled from this to do other jobs...

Anyway here are some pics. 6 cubicle stations with 2 cables to each and 3 offices with 6 cables to each. Measured everything out, made a head, brought it to the ceiling and set up the trunk. Once the trunk was in the data room I ran the branches to designated areas.

Measurements were pretty much dead on except I had an extra 20ft for the copier :no:






























Peeking in the data room, the rest is still up top.











Last 3 branches


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## MDShunk

That's a weird way to pull, but glad it worked out for you. :thumbsup:


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## zwodubber

MDShunk said:


> That's a weird way to pull, but glad it worked out for you. :thumbsup:



Yeah, I was on my own for this one because we are so busy. I wanted to try to get as much pulled at once as I could instead of runs from the box to the data room. If I had a helper I would have run that way. I gotta tell you though it made me nervous cutting all those runs before pulling them into the data room...


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## MDShunk

zwodubber said:


> Yeah, I was on my own for this one because we are so busy. I wanted to try to get as much pulled at once as I could instead of runs from the box to the data room. If I had a helper I would have run that way. I gotta tell you though it made me nervous cutting all those runs before pulling them into the data room...


Yeah, I'd like to think those footage markings on the cable are correct, but there's always some measure of doubt in my mind. I'd be taking a double gulp when pre-cutting that much cable.


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## jeffmoss26

you must own stock in 3M electrical tape


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## zwodubber

jeffmoss26 said:


> you must own stock in 3M electrical tape



Picked up 6 rolls of phase tape, still have a bunch left :thumbsup:


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## zwodubber

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, I'd like to think those footage markings on the cable are correct, but there's always some measure of doubt in my mind. I'd be taking a double gulp when pre-cutting that much cable.


I measured twice and went over the blueprints a few times before I made those first cuts. Everything worked out great, just need to fish and punch jacks and patch panel now.


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## MDShunk

zwodubber said:


> Everything worked out great, just need to fish and punch jacks and patch panel now.


The thing that sucks (for me) is that it takes me as long or longer to punch both ends down as it does to run the cable.


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## zwodubber

MDShunk said:


> The thing that sucks (for me) is that it takes me as long or longer to punch both ends down as it does to run the cable.


Yep, it gets VERY tedious on large installs


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## chewy

zwodubber said:


> Some pics from this job. I keep getting pulled from this to do other jobs...
> 
> Anyway here are some pics. 6 cubicle stations with 2 cables to each and 3 offices with 6 cables to each. Measured everything out, made a head, brought it to the ceiling and set up the trunk. Once the trunk was in the data room I ran the branches to designated areas.
> 
> Measurements were pretty much dead on except I had an extra 20ft for the copier :no:
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> Last 3 branches


Get some of these - http://www.eckind.com/product_43598_garden-hose-guide.htm makes pulling cable so much easer by yourself, max bends I found they will do is 270 degrees on cable tray.


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## chewy

zwodubber said:


> Yep, it gets VERY tedious on large installs


Its not so bad out in the field end where your moving around but being stuck in a rack sucks, though I'd take fitting off copper over splicing fibre anyday!


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## MDShunk

chewy said:


> Its not so bad out in the field end where your moving around but being stuck in a rack sucks, though I'd take fitting off copper over splicing fibre anyday!


I always wondered, but never asked...

Does anyone else do like me and, instead of installing fiber fittings on the ends of the run, I cut a patch cable in half and splice that on to each end. Seems pretty quick, and looks fine on the TDR.


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## Ty Wrapp

zwodubber said:


> didn't get to start this job till 1 because of a service call. Took final measurements, got the 13 low voltage mounting brackets in, and starting labeling wire for pulling tomorrow.
> 
> Some pics
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> Jacks, j-hooks, beam clamps, velcro wrap and bridles
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> Labeling wire for the pulls


Did a job with 680 stations ( phone & data ) labeled everything before hand. With all the handling of the wire & taping, the labels became useless. Had to tone & tag all wires before terminating could begin. 2 people with radios is a must.


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## chewy

MDShunk said:


> I always wondered, but never asked...
> 
> Does anyone else do like me and, instead of installing fiber fittings on the ends of the run, I cut a patch cable in half and splice that on to each end. Seems pretty quick, and looks fine on the TDR.


We buy pre terminated pig tails with LC connectors on them in the colour codes and fusion splice those onto the ends of the cables but your way is probally more cost effective for just a few cores.


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## chewy

Ty Wrapp said:


> Did a job with 680 stations ( phone & data ) labeled everything before hand. With all the handling of the wire & taping, the labels became useless. Had to tone & tag all wires before terminating could begin. 2 people with radios is a must.


We label 3 times over a metre (3 ft) and dont have many problems, you always get that 1 or 2 you have to tone on a job with 500+ cables.


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## chewy

chewy said:


> We label 3 times over a metre (3 ft) and dont have many problems, you always get that 1 or 2 you have to tone on a job with 500+ cables.


Also should mention we use sharpies as wrap arounds are for final fix in cabinets and mutos but we dont bother with them for standard wall plates.


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## jeffmoss26

zwodubber, I got the Fluke Jackrapid tool for terminating Leviton jacks and it is so much more efficient. Don't know what brand of jacks you're using (you still never told me lol) but they do make them for various manufacturers.


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## zwodubber

jeffmoss26 said:


> zwodubber, I got the Fluke Jackrapid tool for terminating Leviton jacks and it is so much more efficient. Don't know what brand of jacks you're using (you still never told me lol) but they do make them for various manufacturers.



Sorry! they are pass and seymour jacks.

And that Fluke rapidjack looks pretty sweet, thanks for sharing :thumbsup:


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## sarness

Looks good! :thumbsup:

I love my JackRapid too, lot faster terminations (by half or more) and you can hold onto the trimmings instead of them going all over the place.


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## zwodubber

Finished until the cubicles and patch panel arrive...



















All the labels survived!











I made three of these up from scraps on my truck on my lunch break to help speed things up, worked nice since the j hooks and bridles were on the same I beam. Just some trapeze and 4" PVC :laughing:

Used the "pulleys" for the run and then popped the cables into the supports. I might even keep them in case I get stuck alone again :thumbsup:


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## zwodubber

Got a call from the customer today that the cubicle people cut some of the existing 5e voice and data lines so they could move the cubicles (as people were working in them)

Got over there in about 20 and luckily there was enough in the ceiling to make temporary drops until the cubes are finished and I get the data room organized. This project has become much larger than originally planned which is cool for me, been a while since I was able to do this all myself. 

Since the patch panel arrived at the SH I picked it up and mounted it after getting everyone reconnected. Went with an ortronics OR - PHD66U24 and hinged wall mount (2U for future growth). 

We also discussed cleaning up the data room existing equipment. It is too narrow for a rack so they will stick with wall mount. Can't wait to get this cleaned up and organized :thumbsup:


New patch panel mounted











Data room as it looked my first day on the job











:no:


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## chewy

Looks like your nearly there mate, I'm not being critical your just doing things differently to what I'm used to so I'm going to fire some questions at you if you dont mind, haha.

Does your code dictate that since the cubicles are tempory walls the cables need to be in at least smurf tube? Why not just fit a gang plate at the wall and run longer patch leads which would avoid the cubicle guys cutting wires or are the cubicles considered a permanent fixture?

Do you think you will use some tray or trunking to loom down to the new panel?

Is that a freaken UPS hanging off that plywood on the wall? How stable is that?


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## rrolleston

Great job. I really love to do any kind of wiring but have never been that good with data cable. I can pull the cable but the connections really slow me down. I respect anyone that can make that look nice.


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## jeffmoss26

Looking better!


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## zwodubber

chewy said:


> Looks like your nearly there mate, I'm not being critical your just doing things differently to what I'm used to so I'm going to fire some questions at you if you dont mind, haha.
> 
> Does your code dictate that since the cubicles are tempory walls the cables need to be in at least smurf tube? Why not just fit a gang plate at the wall and run longer patch leads which would avoid the cubicle guys cutting wires or are the cubicles considered a permanent fixture?
> 
> Do you think you will use some tray or trunking to loom down to the new panel?
> 
> Is that a freaken UPS hanging off that plywood on the wall? How stable is that?


OK ill try to answer these as best I can.

The box on the plywood is for the T1 line. I will be using vertical mounting brackets for the trunk cable management.

As far as the gang plate, the wires were placed so they run directly into the cubicles built in cable trays. The cubicles are in groups of 3, so the wires enter the first cube and run through to the third. There are a few ways this could have been done but they wanted to try to keep costs down.

Ill open the cubicle covers and get some pics on monday.


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## zwodubber

Cubicles are in place, time to make terminations and label stations :thumbsup:


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## BBQ

zwodubber said:


> Cubicles are in place, time to make terminations and label stations :thumbsup:


Man. I never see it that easy, good for you. 

What I see this being done the furniture guys are building the furniture on top of the data guys.


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## zwodubber

BBQ said:


> Man. I never see it that easy, good for you.
> 
> What I see this being done the furniture guys are building the furniture on top of the data guys.


Yep got lucky on this one I thought the furniture guys would be here today


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## BBQ

zwodubber said:


> Yep got lucky on this one I thought the furniture guys would be here today


I would make the most of it even if that meant staying late.


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## zwodubber

BBQ said:


> I would make the most of it even if that meant staying late.


Yeah gonna stay and get the Jacks in place. I got the data jacks all in and patched about half into the panel and tested them, now I want all the phone jacks done so I can just work in the data room tomorrow


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## zwodubber

Data and phone jacks are all in the cubes, still no furniture guys today...












Started the panel, the bridle is just for temporary strain relief and the 66 block is just in with 1 screw to keep voice lines organized and out of the way.











As far as vertical trunk management I'll be using these since it is such a short run.











And something like this will be mounted with the panel as final strain relief.


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## mikeylikesit5805

Looking good! I have to run wire for 34 Kronos Units in next few weeks. I will try and get some pictures for you all. (BTW kronos is pretty much just a digital time clock) just two cat5 pulls to each one.


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## zwodubber

Office is coming together, furniture guys left before they installed all the plates on the cubes. Guess they're coming back tomorrow.


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## mikeylikesit5805

Looks very nice. Must be a hassle to keep coming back to the job for little things and working around the furniture guys no? 

Hows the back room coming along?


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## zwodubber

mikeylikesit5805 said:


> Looks very nice. Must be a hassle to keep coming back to the job for little things and working around the furniture guys no?
> 
> Hows the back room coming along?


Should be finished with it on saturday, I have a higher priority service tomorrow. I'll get pics then :thumbsup:


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## zwodubber

I was to busy cutting the grass yesterday so I put this off until today. Still waiting on the D Rings and tray so just temporary strain relief again. I'll start the phone wiring tomorrow.



















Threw a patch cable on after testing each port.











damn sonicwall :no:


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## jeffmoss26

Looking good!!


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## sarness

Great job! I myself actually bundle the cable and tyrap it to the back of the panel, that way you can still swing it out easily for future add's.


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## zwodubber

sarness said:


> Great job! I myself actually bundle the cable and tyrap it to the back of the panel, that way you can still swing it out easily for future add's.


I have the wires tied to the management bar that came on the back of the panel. The hinge is on the left side and it opens very nicely, I think thats how you do it also?


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## sarness

zwodubber said:


> I have the wires tied to the management bar that came on the back of the panel. The hinge is on the left side and it opens very nicely, I think thats how you do it also?


Could be, it's hard to see the management bar in the picture, and honestly I didn't think you could swing it open with the bar attached. Wouldn't it extend too far and hit the right side if you were to open it?

I see better on the computer (rather then my phone) how you have them laid out and how it would still swing. Typically I keep it as a whole bundle going to the patch panel. On a leviton panel there's a mounting hole for the bar that I'll stick a bullet hole and tyrap on. Then I'll tyrap between each of the modules.

Of course if your in a rack then you have room to use the manegement bar and go straight in securing to the bar for strain relief.


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## triden

Looks like a good install. Love pulling power voltage wire every once in a while.


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