# 200 amp refit



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

I got a call to fix this previous tenant stole the panels.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

You could box and splice both of those. But what's the run look like? How far?


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

*200 Amp refit*

Already on it first pics were taken 1 week ago This are 200 amp 3 ph panels


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Are those getting inspected?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Nice tenant.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

*insp.*

They will probably be inspected when the Bays are redone when rerented


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> They will probably be inspected when the Bays are redone when rerented


I hope they don't fail it due to those boxes being in the workspace.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

I spoke to the owner about that. These two runs are 49' & 79' X 4 -3 /0 Id order 530' at $3.10 or so a foot, He said he would deal with it when he had a dedicated tenant.I put 4 of these bays in 6 years ago. Owner is a "Very money conscious"He almost had a hart attack at my bid of $3.000 to fix this With out pulling new wire.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

It looks like you installed a $20 dollar insulated tap on the ground and didn't even bond the box, instead of just using a much cheaper 2 hole mechanical lug you could of grounded the box with?


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

You had to extend the wire already. Couldn't you move each panel over for clearance? 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Truth be told, sometimes my back gets a little sore standing in the same spot for a while. Putting one foot up onto those spliceboxes would be very comfortable for me :thumbsup: :laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Spliced ground doesn't fly here.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Spliced ground doesn't fly here.


You can't splice a long feeder run? :blink:


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## ktown (May 15, 2014)

99cents said:


> Spliced ground doesn't fly here.


Thats an MLO panel, which leads me to believe there's a main disconnect somewhere else where the neutral is bonded. That makes his ground a bond wire, which can be spliced as many times as you want (at least around here). If it were his grounding conductor than I would agree - mechanical crimp or no-go.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

ktown said:


> Thats an MLO panel, which leads me to believe there's a main disconnect somewhere else where the neutral is bonded. That makes his ground a bond wire, which can be spliced as many times as you want (at least around here). If it were his grounding conductor than I would agree - mechanical crimp or no-go.


Yeah, I didn't look close enough to see it was MLO. I was just being petulant.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cow said:


> It looks like you installed a $20 dollar insulated tap on the ground and didn't even bond the box, instead of just using a much cheaper 2 hole mechanical lug you could of grounded the box with?


The box is bonded. Look at the panel and the conduit. There are 2 equipment grounding conductor's coming into the panel and one goes to the box. Hard to see but I believe I see the wire in the box but not the lug-- it is behind the splice.

I hope the inspector doesn't fail it for not have enough free wire in the box



> 300.14 Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions,
> and Switch Points. *At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free
> conductor, measured from the point in the box where it
> emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be left at
> ...


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> There are 2 equipment grounding conductor's coming into the panel and one goes to the box. Hard to see but I believe I see the wire in the box but not the lug-- it is behind the splice.


Take a look at the 2nd and 3rd pictures, if that were true that second ground wire seen in the photos is considerably smaller than the one that is spliced. Too small to bond that box.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cow said:


> Take a look at the 2nd and 3rd pictures, if that were true that second ground wire seen in the photos is considerably smaller than the one that is spliced. Too small to bond that box.


I didn't catch that-- you are correct and if that box isn't 16" it wouldn't be compliant either


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

reddog552 said:


> They will probably be inspected when the Bays are redone when rerented


Don't know how things work down there, but up here, this answer 
would get an EC a nice fine....if they got caught.....and....the best way 
to get caught would be for the owner to have an inspection any time
soon.
Other than that, if it were me, I'd want to pull in new AL.
P&L


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Is the pull box screwed to anything or are you just using the conduit to hold it in place?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

50-80 foot run, I replace it all. Either way I would have used a PVC box and crimps. No way I do that without a permit, but that is different everywhere. 
You seem more worried about what your customer wants than what you know is right. Ypou could have pulled in new wire in about the same time it took to **** around with that mess. Chances are is he is going to sue or turn it into insurance. Why not do it right and make a bit of $


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

reddog552 said:


> I spoke to the owner about that. These two runs are 49' & 79' X 4 -3 /0 Id order 530' at $3.10 or so a foot, He said he would deal with it when he had a dedicated tenant.I put 4 of these bays in 6 years ago. Owner is a "Very money conscious"He almost had a hart attack at my bid of $3.000 to fix this With out pulling new wire.


I would've given him some low dosage asprin and a higher quote.

I would've used bigger cans and placed them as low as I could possibly pull off.

It's a CERTAINTY that he's collected from his insurance, so you've done the limbo on your own profits.

*NEVER* buy into landlord whining over work that must surely be covered by his insurance. :no:

A complete re-do is much easier to defend upon inspection. You can be dinged over your undersized cans.

One appears to be mounted sideways... which is really weird for a repair.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

*No on insurance*

I know the owner well he won't turn it in to Insurance. I also have an inside collaborator on this. I'm trying to help him out while making a Good PAY.I think I need to Ground bond this right.Do I need to bond the GEC In this box, Or is a #4 to the box ground lug from the panel right???


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I hope they don't fail it due to those boxes being in the workspace.



Splice box can't be there?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Helmut said:


> Splice box can't be there?


Not in the workspace of the panel


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Not in the workspace of the panel


I don't have my code book on me, but i believe a splice box can be under the panel, but the front of the box can't extend past the front of the panel, otherwise the splice box is technically in the "working space" of a panel. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

smiley mcrib said:


> I don't have my code book on me, but i believe a splice box can be under the panel, but the front of the box can't extend past the front of the panel, otherwise the splice box is technically in the "working space" of a panel. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


 You are correct, a splice box can be above, below, or beside a panel. But if it extends out past the panel then it can't be inside of the working space. The OP's splice boxes both extend out further than the panel, he posted earlier that he knew that.


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

HackWork said:


> You are correct, a splice box can be above, below, or beside a panel. But if it extends out past the panel then it can't be inside of the working space. The OP's splice boxes both extend out further than the panel, he posted earlier that he knew that.


That's what I thought, but thought I was incorrect. Thanks for the clarification!


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

smiley mcrib said:


> I don't have my code book on me, but i believe a splice box can be under the panel, but the front of the box can't extend past the front of the panel, otherwise the splice box is technically in the "working space" of a panel. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


I thought they changed that a few years ago.


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

As far as I know they havent, I was almost positive you could have any type of enclosure above/below a panel, but the enclosure couldn't extend past the depth of the panel. Basically, from my basic understanding, nothing is allowed in the working space of a panel. And the working space starts from the front of the panel.

Now, I believe you can have a enclosure extend past the panel depth if it is above the panel, because I believe the work space is limited to the height of the actual panel. 

Again, I'm pooping at work and only am using what personal experiences. I really need to study the code more.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> You are correct, a splice box can be above, below, or beside a panel. But if it extends out past the panel then it can't be inside of the working space. The OP's splice boxes both extend out further than the panel, he posted earlier that he knew that.




I'm not so sure. Maybe if it was foreign to the electrical system. I can't find the section corroborating your claim


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

I am wrong, so are you hackwork? From my understanding, you have another 6 inches to play with from the front of the panel.


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## shocksystems (Apr 25, 2009)

NEC 110.26 (A) 3 

I *think* this allows it as long as it does not extend more than 6 inches beyond the front of the electrical equipment.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

smiley mcrib said:


> I am wrong, so are you hackwork? From my understanding, you have another 6 inches to play with from the front of the panel.


Yup, you are right. Hell, I have been bumping out my panels when there is a deeper trough underneath or above and lower than 6.5'. What a waste.


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Yup, you are right. Hell, I have been bumping out my panels when there is a deeper trough underneath or above and lower than 6.5'. What a waste.


I only know what I've been taught. I need to study and know the actual code, instead of just going off of what my foreman says.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I didn't catch that-- you are correct and if that box isn't 16" it wouldn't be compliant either


A enclosure with a splice is only required to be sized per the angle pull rules in 314.28(A)(2).


> (2) Angle or U Pulls, or *Splices*. Where *splices or where angle or U pulls are made*, the distance between each raceway entry inside the box or conduit ...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> A enclosure with a splice is only required to be sized per the angle pull rules in 314.28(A)(2).


Thank you-- I realized that after I posted but it didn't seem to matter because my point was the size of the box was not large enough.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Yup, they allowed to be there...


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