# marking gutter for conduits



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> I do some work a convenience/gas station occasionally. In the "electrical room" against a wall there are a dozen or more conduits coming up out of the slab. Someone stuck a 5 or 6' gutter on top of them and then ran larger conduits up to panel. I liked that idea, but it always made me wonder how well the knock outs lined up on the bottom of the gutter. One day I was working there and the inspector showed up. He asked me how I liked the way the contractor had stubbed all those conduits into the gutter. I told him I never looked. He said open it up and take a look. Some one had cut a slot in the bottom of the gutter long enough and wide enough to get all those conduits up into there. The stub ups were not attached to anything. I know, I should have taken pictures.
> It made me wonder how someone else would have mapped out the ko locations on the bottom of the gutter. I have used wax paper as a template with good results. Construction paper and even cardboard. How does everyone else lay these things out?


Um, tape measure and a notebook......


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

te12co2w said:


> I do some work a convenience/gas station occasionally. In the "electrical room" against a wall there are a dozen or more conduits coming up out of the slab. Someone stuck a 5 or 6' gutter on top of them and then ran larger conduits up to panel. I liked that idea, but it always made me wonder how well the knock outs lined up on the bottom of the gutter. One day I was working there and the inspector showed up. He asked me how I liked the way the contractor had stubbed all those conduits into the gutter. I told him I never looked. He said open it up and take a look. Some one had cut a slot in the bottom of the gutter long enough and wide enough to get all those conduits up into there. The stub ups were not attached to anything. I know, I should have taken pictures. It made me wonder how someone else would have mapped out the ko locations on the bottom of the gutter. I have used wax paper as a template with good results. Construction paper and even cardboard. How does everyone else lay these things out?


Maxis marksman


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

http://youtu.be/A8TwiAGKeN4


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## Nom Deplume (Jul 21, 2013)

I would use a piece of cardboard the same size as the equipment and a hammer to tap the cardboard onto the pipes. 
This will cut holes in the cardboard in the exact locations. 
Then use the cardboard to mark the equipment.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Nom Deplume said:


> I would use a piece of cardboard the same size as the equipment and a hammer to tap the cardboard onto the pipes.
> This will cut holes in the cardboard in the exact locations.
> Then use the cardboard to mark the equipment.


:thumbsup:

And that is the way you electric.:laughing:

Old school works every time.

Oh just do not flip the cardboard the wrong way.


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

Cardboard trick works every time. 

Try measuring 30 unevenly spaced pipes...


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

ampman said:


> http://youtu.be/A8TwiAGKeN4


 :thumbsup: Never saw before


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Cardboard and a ball peen can do great things. All sorts of fabrication possibilities.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Crayon or lipstick on the conduits, it will transfer once you sit the trough onto it.


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## Nuzzie (Jan 11, 2012)

yeah sure chewy _that's_ why you carry lipstick around


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I've probably wired more gas stations than some of you have houses.

I like the cardboard idea, but lucky for me I never had to come back behind someone else doing the rough in. I always took time to stub up the conduits as perfect as I could get them (and it actually got a comment from the executive VP of the company I worked for telling me how those conduits just jumped out at you they were so straight and evenly spaced). So when I came back it was pretty easy to punch the holes in the right space.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> One day I was working there and the inspector showed up. He asked me how I liked the way the contractor had stubbed all those conduits into the gutter. I told him I never looked. He said open it up and take a look. Some one had cut a slot in the bottom of the gutter long enough and wide enough to get all those conduits up into there. The stub ups were not attached to anything.


What did the inspector say about that install?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

ampman said:


> http://youtu.be/A8TwiAGKeN4


That's a pretty neat tool, :thumbsup:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

For the very few times I had to deal with someone else's poor rough in, I would just put the trough on top of the nipples coming out of the sealoffs and draw a circle around the conduit, use a center punch in the middle of the circle and drill away.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

For only a few I use a wooden rule an note pad. For more about 6, I use a china marker. 
For a large gaggle of stub ups, it's cardboard & rubber mallet.
I do gutter replacement 99% of the time. It's rare for me to work an old well installed stub up. Most days nothing is lined up.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

I have seen electricians leave the stub-ups short, cut the bottom of the trough out and sit it over the conduits anchored to the floor and install bond bushings to ground the conduit and trough.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

running dummy said:


> Cardboard trick works every time.
> 
> Try measuring 30 unevenly spaced pipes...


used to do it all the time. Never had an issue. Its just basic math- x inches over and x inches out.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Bad Electrician said:


> I have seen electricians leave the stub-ups short, cut the bottom of the trough out and sit it over the conduits anchored to the floor and install bond bushings to ground the conduit and trough.


Compliant with 300.10 but not 300.12. 

That's pretty hack IMO


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> Compliant with 300.10 but not 300.12.
> 
> That's pretty hack IMO


I've done it many times when large conduits are not strait. It's really no different then stubbing into bottom of switch gears.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

dawgs said:


> I've done it many times when large conduits are not strait. It's really no different then stubbing into bottom of switch gears.


Me too. There's an exception to 300.12 specifically for open bottom gear. A gutter isn't open bottom gear. I'd probably do it if I had absolutely no other options but I haven't come across that scenario yet.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> Me too. There's an exception to 300.12 specifically for open bottom gear. A gutter isn't open bottom gear. I'd probably do it if I had absolutely no other options but I haven't come across that scenario yet.


Follow some idiots on a slab rough and you will come across the situation more time then you would like.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

dawgs said:


> It's really no different then stubbing into bottom of switch gears.


It's a little different in that the switch gear cabinet contacts the floor all around the conduits where in this scenario, the metal that is cut out outside of the actual conduit is open. I don't see that would be a large issue, but I don't think it's fair to say it's not different than open bottom switch gear. I guess it would be easier for a mouse to get into the trough this way.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Wasn't there a thread about cutting out the bottom of a pull/junction box and mounting it over conduits coming out of the slab? Was there a consensus on whether that was acceptable or not?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

dawgs said:


> Follow some idiots on a slab rough and you will come across the situation more time then you would like.


Haha I haven't had the pleasure yet. We grow good electricians in Iowa I guess. Plenty of dumbass concrete workers though.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> It's a little different in that the switch gear cabinet contacts the floor all around the conduits where in this scenario, the metal that is cut out outside of the actual conduit is open. I don't see that would be a large issue, but I don't think it's fair to say it's not different than open bottom switch gear. I guess it would be easier for a mouse to get into the trough this way.


I guess I wasn't to clear. I'm talking about mounting the box or wire way on the floor.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> It's a little different in that the switch gear cabinet contacts the floor all around the conduits where in this scenario, the metal that is cut out outside of the actual conduit is open. I don't see that would be a large issue, but I don't think it's fair to say it's not different than open bottom switch gear. I guess it would be easier for a mouse to get into the trough this way.


I agree with you. I don't see any kind of safety or mechanical issue with it but the fact of the matter is it's not code compliant. No matter how similar it may be to open bottom equipment, which are pad mount 99% of the time


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> Haha I haven't had the pleasure yet. We grow good electricians in Iowa I guess. Plenty of dumbass concrete workers though.


Send some my way then.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

dawgs said:


> I guess I wasn't to clear. I'm talking about mounting the box or wire way on the floor.


I thought we were talking about a gas station back room where sealoffs are required to be installed which would mean it would be impossible to install the trough on the floor.

Sorry I missed your perspective.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I thought we were talking about a gas station back room where sealoffs are required to be installed which would mean it would be impossible to install the trough on the floor.
> 
> Sorry I missed your perspective.


No. I would never do that with classified work. 

I remember as a third-year apprentice roughing in the gas pump conduits stubbing inside the building. Had everything all lined up with seals installed mounted on the block wall nice and even. The site guys Tamped the ground around the stubs and made them all uneven Spent the first four hours of the next day straightening everything back out before the pour.


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

te12co2w said:


> ..How does everyone else lay these things out?


ive done measure and cut, lay can and mark with Sharpie and cardboard marking. never the slot.. total hack. cut stub-outs level.. lay can on them and spray paint bottom. easiest ive found.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> That's a pretty neat tool, :thumbsup:


 They sell them at bLowe's.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> What did the inspector say about that install?


 He didn't have much good to say. It was an out of state contractor, and had been done 2 years earlier. He thought he wouldn't win that fight.


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## Jmcstevenson (Sep 11, 2010)

Good timing; tomorrow I've got 20ish 3/4", 1" ceiling stubs I'm dropping into a 4' gutter, I'll try the cardboard and mallet. Wholesaler sent me a gutter with provisions for knockouts - anyone have tricks for ko'ing a box where your holes overlap with the factory ko's? Its always a battle trying to not take out the existing ko's


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Jmcstevenson said:


> Good timing; tomorrow I've got 20ish 3/4", 1" ceiling stubs I'm dropping into a 4' gutter, I'll try the cardboard and mallet. Wholesaler sent me a gutter with provisions for knockouts - anyone have tricks for ko'ing a box where your holes overlap with the factory ko's? Its always a battle trying to not take out the existing ko's


I only buy the kind without KO's. Also, the type with hinged covers are garbage too. Screwcover only!


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## Rns (Mar 23, 2013)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NFS_T4Ra6DM

Have you guys seen these?


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Rns said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NFS_T4Ra6DM
> 
> Have you guys seen these?


Videos too long I had the idea down 7 seconds in.
I would either not have enough stamps or lose them in a week to 10 days.
There is more than a minute 30 to the layout as he extended the cross hairs with pencil.

Not a bad idea but not for me, if I did this type of work.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

I have followed many , Main Dist Rooms , Sub Dist Rooms , Ect...

Mac Man hit it right , pencil and paper off the back wall and work down the line marking holes . 

You learn to be good when you hit 3 uneven rows of 3/4 & 1' ...ect

It might take me what it takes , but then I did not do the rough , deck.



Pete


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## Rns (Mar 23, 2013)

I use a ruler and pencil myself, I just remember seeing those in a magazine years ago. Doesn't seem to practical to me.


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## g-alberta (Dec 1, 2012)

The ruler and pencil work great most time. Two years ago installing a 5' gutter. Measure and transferto gutter. Knockout holes. Try to put the gutter on.

Poured in place concrete wall. Slight kick in the wall almost dead centre of my gutter. So I could only get half my pipes to line up. I chose one side to Line up. Thankfully we stubbed up in pvc. Tiger torch to realign half my pipes and then a few washers behind the gutter.

Easy fix but was still frustrating as hell.


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## shnorse1 (Aug 20, 2014)

Just lay the trough on top of the stubs right where you want it, sharpie around each pipe and drill in the center of all the black circles... That's how i've always done it, easy peasy


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