# Home Owners are Hilarious... See if You Can Top This One



## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Gotta love it. They don't want to spend the money and just let it stay "broken" for a long time. Years ago when I did some residential stuff I had a customer ask if I could look at a couple of things while I was there. I said "sure". And the guy said " I have a plug were only the bottom half works, and a switch over there that does nothing." 

I walked over, unplugged his desk lamp from the bottom plug and put it in the top plug, turned on the switch and the lamp came on. He was absolutely stunned. " I have been tripping over the dog and stubbing my toes for years to walk over there and turn the lamp on, I was so upset and couldn't believe someone forgot to install the ceiling light." He thought I was a genius.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Its not just customers 

I brought a ford f150 standard cab and struggled to get things in the 2' gap behind the seats for years. I would slide the drivers seat forwards and cuss at the stupid design. 

Then one day while shopping my wife open the rear door. I muttered something like "you got to be f***ing kidding me" which she took as a reference to her shopping. So i either had to admit she knew something i didn't or go a week with her being mad. 

Not the first time shes been mad.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Gotta love it. They don't want to spend the money and just let it stay "broken" for a long time. Years ago when I did some residential stuff I had a customer ask if I could look at a couple of things while I was there. I said "sure". And the guy said " I have a plug were only the bottom half works, and a switch over there that does nothing."
> 
> I walked over, unplugged his desk lamp from the bottom plug and put it in the top plug, turned on the switch and the lamp came on. He was absolutely stunned. " I have been tripping over the dog and stubbing my toes for years to walk over there and turn the lamp on, I was so upset and couldn't believe *someone forgot to install the ceiling light*." He thought I was a genius.


That was my instant tip off that the outlets were switched. :smile:

I should have mentioned that I didn't charge her a penny... single mom with a severely handicapped daughter. Didn't seem right to charge her for what little I did.


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

I've shared this story here before I think, but this reminded me of it again.

The house I grew up in was an old cottage when my parents bought it, and they put a few large additions on it, so the electrical was a bit of a mixed bag of circuits everywhere. My mom was always after my dad (a seasoned electrician) to fix the two receptacles in the living room that had never worked at all. For ~15 years my dad never had time to look at it being busy with business and bookkeeping. So they go to sell the house and the buyer's home inspector flags the two non-functioning outlets; Now he has to fix it. I don't know if it took him longer to get the Marrettes, or to twist on the two Marrettes to the two wires that were already in the junction box in the unfinished basement. My mom was not impressed.


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## johnnygreenham (Aug 25, 2020)

I wired a small new build for some customers last year. They were super happy with everything but called me back about the switch at the bottom of the stairs to the basement. The lady asked that I rotate the switch in the box as it annoyed her husband that the light came on when the toggle was flipped down


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

I know I posted this before but this thread reminded me of it.

I was in a big engineering firm installing the fire alarm system. Well, this entailed running all new fire cable all over the building for smokes and notification devices. I was installing the devices on the wall in one cubicle of an obviously smarter than me fellow just by looking at his desk and the three computer screens he had on his desk with programs running like CAD and a calculating program with engineering papers strewn all over and on side tables.
He returned to his office and saw me installing this on the wall asking me what it was for.









I could not resist so I said, "If there is ever a fire in this building... you are going to be the first to know."

:vs_laugh: :vs_laugh: :vs_laugh:



.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

johnnygreenham said:


> I wired a small new build for some customers last year. They were super happy with everything but called me back about the switch at the bottom of the stairs to the basement. The lady asked that I rotate the switch in the box as it annoyed her husband that the light came on when the toggle was flipped down



You may think we are nuts but we install all our 3 ways & 4 ways so that at some point if all the switches are up or down then the light is off. One switched in a different posit then the lights were on.

You would be surprised how many customers have asked us to do this before we trimmed out... I told them we do that anyway


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

I got a call that a group of project managers, engineers and managers that were inspecting at a newly completed blg here at the airport and the lights were not working, they had been there for 45 minutes. I show up, walk in the door and flip on the light switch. 
I had the great pleasure of bringing the group back to the door and show them how I fixed it, I still tell people that story when I go to that blg.

Tim


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Heard years ago from an electrician out in Cali who had clients who were wealthy Indian immigrants (dot not feather). 

He'd get service calls for things as simple as replace a burned out bulb in a table lamp. 

It was their custom to hire someone to do that task. 

He'd charge large and take it to the bank with a smile on his face.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

gpop said:


> Its not just customers
> 
> I brought a ford f150 standard cab and struggled to get things in the 2' gap behind the seats for years. I would slide the drivers seat forwards and cuss at the stupid design.
> 
> ...


You’re not really an electrician, are you?


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

99cents said:


> You’re not really an electrician, are you?


Industrial with a helper that does all the work including opening the truck door for me. Its not my fault honest.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

AK_sparky said:


> I've shared this story here before I think, but this reminded me of it again.
> 
> The house I grew up in was an old cottage when my parents bought it, and they put a few large additions on it, so the electrical was a bit of a mixed bag of circuits everywhere. My mom was always after my dad (a seasoned electrician) to fix the two receptacles in the living room that had never worked at all. For ~15 years my dad never had time to look at it being busy with business and bookkeeping. So they go to sell the house and the buyer's home inspector flags the two non-functioning outlets; Now he has to fix it. I don't know if it took him longer to get the *Marrettes*, or to twist on the two *Marrettes* to the two wires that were already in the junction box in the unfinished basement. My mom was not impressed.


I got to thinking about the term "Marrettes." There is no way we could use that in the States. Could you imagine a SH counterman saying, "That customer was so dumb he probably thought marrettes is a venereal disease." :vs_laugh:


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

LARMGUY said:


> I know I posted this before but this thread reminded me of it.
> 
> I was in a big engineering firm installing the fire alarm system. Well, this entailed running all new fire cable all over the building for smokes and notification devices. I was installing the devices on the wall in one cubicle of an obviously smarter than me fellow just by looking at his desk and the three computer screens he had on his desk with programs running like CAD and a calculating program with engineering papers strewn all over and on side tables.
> He returned to his office and saw me installing this on the wall asking me what it was for.
> ...


He might have been related to an EE I encountered once who designed a run of 3" rigid that ran right into a huge plenum. Of course, he blamed the error on the HVAC people.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Does installing 5 fans in 5 days in the same bedroom count?

Long time customer called and wanted to replace the fan in his bedroom, and the fan was waiting on me. I get there and replace the fan about the time he came home. He took one look and said he didn't like it. I took it down and boxed it up. Went back the next day, and same thing.

I think he went through most of HD's inventory at that time. I made good money from him over the years!


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You may think we are nuts but we install all our 3 ways & 4 ways so that at some point if all the switches are up or down then the light is off. One switched in a different posit then the lights were on.
> 
> You would be surprised how many customers have asked us to do this before we trimmed out... I told them we do that anyway



I had a customer ask me to change his 3-ways so they would all be the same. I didn't wire the house or install the switches. I explained to him that as soon as someone turned on/off the light from another location it would be different. He said he knew that, he just wanted me to make it so that if both switches were down, the lights would be off.


What I have been doing on new installs of 3-ways is this:
I put the black traveler on the same side as the common in one box and put the red traveler on the common side in the other box. I found this will let the switches be the same direction for on/off. If the line is in one box and the load in another, I usually put the black traveler on the common side in the box with the line just so I can remember what to do in the other box. I do this and not have to think each time which way to wire it.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

jbfan said:


> Does installing 5 fans in 5 days in the same bedroom count?
> 
> Long time customer called and wanted to replace the fan in his bedroom, and the fan was waiting on me. I get there and replace the fan about the time he came home. He took one look and said he didn't like it. I took it down and boxed it up. Went back the next day, and same thing.
> 
> I think he went through most of HD's inventory at that time. I made good money from him over the years!


I hooked up a machine for a guy 4 times in about 4 years. He kept moving it around. Once it was simply to the other side of the room right after we got it running.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

A customer called and needed me to fix his fan. 

He went through 3 of them and couldn’t get them to work. 

I show up and he has it installed (without blades). Says this doesn’t work either, I look up and he still has the shipping blocks on the motor. 

I removed them and low and behold the fan works. He was a little embarrassed.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

jbfan said:


> Does installing 5 fans in 5 days in the same bedroom count?
> 
> Long time customer called and wanted to replace the fan in his bedroom, and the fan was waiting on me. I get there and replace the fan about the time he came home. He took one look and said he didn't like it. I took it down and boxed it up. Went back the next day, and same thing.
> 
> I think he went through most of HD's inventory at that time. I made good money from him over the years!


I guess if he keeps paying you... Lord knows I have done a tone of them, but hanging ceiling fans is probably my least favorite jobs.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Resetting GFCI receptacles is another one, that happens a lot.

Cheers
John


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

When home computers were taking off in the 90's their #1 tech support problem was solved by plugging it in. It's the first question asked for a reason.


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

My neighbor sold his house. He is the original owner, built in 1959. He's in his late 80's and moving in with his daughter.

He called and asked: "Can you come over, the top half of my outlets in the living room don't work?
Me: "Do you have a switch in the living room that doesn't do anything?"
Him: "Ya, that's the other thing".

He lived there for 61 years and never knew. He said: "Wow, that would have been really convenient."


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

johnnygreenham said:


> I wired a small new build for some customers last year. They were super happy with everything but called me back about the switch at the bottom of the stairs to the basement. The lady asked that I rotate the switch in the box as it annoyed her husband that the light came on when the toggle was flipped down


Similar situation. The home owner wanted the light to be off when both 3ways were down.

Not a big deal, 10 secs to flip one over, but to them it was important


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Had another one, who had me move a few plugs (during rough-in) to the other side of the stud. She had measured every piece of furniture, knew where everything was sitting. Didn't want the receptacles behind said furniture


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## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

I did a service call where the water heater stopped working. I did all kinds of testing and tracing until I found a snap switch high up on the kitchen wall that was the disconnect for the water heater. It was turned off. I asked the homeowner if he had turned that switch off recently and he said he had. He said he flipped it a couple of time and didn't see where it controlled anything so he decided to leave it off.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Just thought of one that I don't know how I forgot about. I had a call to an apartment complex that I had been working on for the owner when they needed something electrical done. The owner has a handyman to do maintenance and odd jobs. Occasionally he ventures off to something electrical.


The owner called me and asked me to meet the handyman at one of the apts. When I get there he said he took a light down that wasn't working and put up a ceiling fan. But the fan wasn't working. I checked the switch (easiest first) and had power there and the switch was good. So I proceeded to take the fan apart to check the wiring. When I took the canopy off I found that he had sort of wired it incorrectly. What he did was, he took the hot, neutral, and ground from the fan and tied them all together. No connection to the circuit hot & neutral.
Probably good that he didn't connect to the circuit, those old breakers probably wouldn't have made it!


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Quickservice said:


> I guess if he keeps paying you... Lord knows I have done a tone of them, but hanging ceiling fans is probably my least favorite jobs.


He never even question the price. When I first started doing work for him, he would often tell me my prices were slightly low compared to others. so I went up on my prices.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

ever notice how often DIY has recep not working, changes it out, calls and says still not working? just plain ol' recep, not gfci


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I get the switched receptacle thing at least twice a year in the subsidized housing I work on. The GFCI thing at least a couple times a year in a variety of situations. I've only had the three way switch thing once and I don't think I ever got called back after I swapped it around. She was a bit OCD and all upset over it. Explanation didn't matter. I have had the generator comes on but no power thing a bunch of times. Yesterday's was the disconnect on the house was turned off. He was cool about it though. I got paid.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

MikeFL said:


> When home computers were taking off in the 90's their #1 tech support problem was solved by plugging it in. It's the first question asked for a reason.


I remember one guy couldn't find the CD ROM. Tech support told him to press the little button and tell him what happened. 

The owner said nothing happened but that little drink holder came out again.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

*3-way attack*

This happened last week... The homeowner calls and says, "I bought a new fixture for my bedroom and when I took the old fixture down I lost track of which wires went where. There are a ton of wires in this box!!!!" 

Poor guy, they had routed the 3-way runners through his ceiling box. :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

readydave8 said:


> ever notice how often DIY has recep not working, changes it out, calls and says still not working? just plain ol' recep, not gfci


Exactly... and the majority of the time it is a bad stab-in feed-through that is feeding it. I learned a long time ago, even before it came up in the NEC, to pigtail every outlet.


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

I had a guy call yesterday. He was pulling new wire for his furnace and A/C from the panel to the basement. He lost it inside the main floor wall. He wondered if I had any tricks to get it out. Maybe I could come by ASAP?

I told him I was booked 7 days out, and referred him to another company.

I'll wager he's gonna get a new hole in that wall!


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Quickservice said:


> I learned a long time ago, even before it came up in the NEC, to pigtail every outlet.


when did NEC outlaw backstabs?


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

readydave8 said:


> when did NEC outlaw backstabs?


I have to head out to a project... will explain later.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Quickservice said:


> later.


Later, after it is written into NEC?


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

readydave8 said:


> Later, after it is written into NEC?


 Exactly... and the majority of the time it is a bad *stab-in feed-through* that is feeding it. I learned a long time ago, even before it came up in the NEC, to pigtail every outlet.

UL would be the one to outlaw stab-ins, which they have never done even though some manufacturers couldn’t seem to make them to last more than 10 years. Circle F was a classic example. So the problems arose when they were used for feeding through the entire eight-outlet circuit After many, many service calls trying to find the one outlet where the stab-ins oxidized I resolved to pigtail all the hots and neutrals and tie the leads to the binding-screws. My reference to the NEC was just in reference to the neutral requirement in 300.13. UL did drop the stab-ins on outlets from #12 to #14, but I never use #14 for power circuits... have seen too many homeowners who have abused an outlet circuit with potable heaters and such.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Quickservice said:


> Exactly... and the majority of the time it is a bad *stab-in feed-through* that is feeding it. I learned a long time ago, even before it came up in the NEC, to pigtail every outlet.
> 
> UL would be the one to outlaw stab-ins, which they have never done even though some manufacturers couldn’t seem to make them to last more than 10 years. Circle F was a classic example. So the problems arose when they were used for feeding through the entire eight-outlet circuit After many, many service calls trying to find the one outlet where the stab-ins oxidized I resolved to pigtail all the hots and neutrals and tie the leads to the binding-screws. My reference to the NEC was just in reference to the neutral requirement in 300.13. UL did drop the stab-ins on outlets from #12 to #14, but I never use #14 for power circuits... have seen too many homeowners who have abused an outlet circuit with potable heaters and such.


2 different things going on here, thus my confusion

NEC does not address pigtailing or backstabbed receptacles

except that neutral of multiwire circuit cannot depend on receptacle for continuity 

because "unqualified" person can get shock when changing out receptacle

I know what I said is paraphrasing and so hope it is accurate


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## 5kv flash (Jul 15, 2016)

Quickservice said:


> This happened last week... The homeowner calls and says, "I bought a new fixture for my bedroom and when I took the old fixture down I lost track of which wires went where. There are a ton of wires in this box!!!!"
> 
> Poor guy, they had routed the 3-way runners through his ceiling box. :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


Bozo the clown was there 1st lol...

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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

A guy that goes to my church called me recently and the conversation went like this:

*HO - All of my outside, kitchen, and bathroom outlets have died.*
Me - You have tripped a GFCI.
*HO - What is a GFCI*
Me - A receptacle that has a test button and also a reset buttons on it, or a breaker that has just one test button.
*HO - I don't think I have any of those, but let me hang up and look.*
_Hours later he calls me back_
*HO - I don't have any receptacles or breakers like that. *
Me - How old is the house?
*HO - 1990's*
Me - Then you have to have at least one somewhere.
*HO - I swear that I don't!*
Me - Keep looking.
*HO - Groan*
_Two days later and I have not heard back, so I called the guy._
*HO - I was too embarrassed to call you back, I finally found it... it was a receptacle with two buttons and 
MY WIFE HAD HUNG A MIRROR OVER IT.*
Me - You owe me $50.00 for a service call over the phone! *  *


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Similar story..............
I had a customer call and say that his pool pump wasn't working. I asked if he had checked the GFCI breaker. He asked what that was. I explained that it was a breaker in his pool panel with a white test button on it. He said he would look and let me know. He calls back and said he found it but it wouldn't stay on. I asked if he tried to reset it and even told him to turn it all the way off, then back on. He said he did but it wouldn't stay on. So I told him I would come and check it.
When I get there, the breaker is tripped so I reset it and it held. I tested it several times and it reset eveytime. So I thought maybe there was a problem with the pump. So I let it run for about half an hour with no trips.

I called the customer while I was there and told him I couldn't find anything wrong and the breaker would reset everytime. I asked him to describe exactly what he did to reset it. He said he turned it off all the way then back on. I asked if it reset. He said he thought so but when he pushed the reset button it would go off!!!!!!!
I almost felt bad taking his check for my service call!


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

A Little Short said:


> Similar story..............
> I had a customer call and say that his pool pump wasn't working. I asked if he had checked the GFCI breaker. He asked what that was. I explained that it was a breaker in his pool panel with a white test button on it. He said he would look and let me know. He calls back and said he found it but it wouldn't stay on. I asked if he tried to reset it and even told him to turn it all the way off, then back on. He said he did but it wouldn't stay on. So I told him I would come and check it.
> When I get there, the breaker is tripped so I reset it and it held. I tested it several times and it reset eveytime. So I thought maybe there was a problem with the pump. So I let it run for about half an hour with no trips.
> 
> ...


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

If I get a call for something residential, it's a referral from friends/family/neighbors or someone I've worked for before, and I tell them to make it clear I only take on small jobs.

I'd say at least 25% of those calls are either GFCIs that need to be reset, or little old ladies with burned out light bulbs. About half the time they swear they already checked for those things. The other half they simply couldnt do it themselves.

At least twice I've gotten calls to a 60s era house with a lighted ceiling in either the kitchen or laundry room where a significant percentage of the bulbs were out, and they were literally hiring me just to relamp. Chasing down some of those odd length fluorescent tubes gets interesting.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

Got a call from a friend who said his brother's (120V) window air conditioner was tripping a breaker. Turned out that the guy had installed the unit in a sunroom that had been added to the house... less any receptacles. So he ran a drop cord from the air conditioner to an outlet in his kitchen. Yep, you guessed it, it was on the same circuit as the refrigerator. Now get this, there was an outlet, on a circuit that had only two table lamps on it just inside the sunroom door but *he was too lazy to use it because it had a hutch sitting in front of it!* 

I went ahead and installed a new receptacle under the air conditioner. By-the-way, his garage was completely packed with junk. Unreal!


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## Orthalion (Oct 8, 2021)

Had a call out to a mechanics shop at 4pm, the lights in the shop hadn't been working all day. The shop is a franchise and they have a maintenance guy for all the shops in the area. He's been there all day and has just about every junction box in the shop opened up, it's done all in pipe. He shows us how the lights work if he grabs power for them off of another circuit. He shows us which circuit breaker does the lights and tells us that's how they turn them on and off. My journeyman opens up the panel to test the circuit breaker, it's all good. I noticed some connections that looked like a switch loop inside of the panel. We followed the wire through the ceiling of the office area and turned the switch on. That maintenance guy was none too happy, he'd been there all day and it took us less than half an hour to find the switch and get the lights on. 

That's still one of my favourite service calls and that was in the second year of my apprenticeship. Tripped GFI calls are also amusing. Before I get there, I always try to guess if it will be a receptacle or a breaker that will need resetting.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Not a homeowner but a company engineer. We are quoting some buss duct for a facility, and the engineer wants it quoted as IP55 because the roof leaks in places.

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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Quickservice said:


> By-the-way, his garage was completely packed with junk. Unreal!


Hold up now.


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## frankendodge (Oct 25, 2019)

Plugs in a porch, after a panel change I'm told aren't working.. You mean these two that are wired together, but not to anything else? You swear they used to work eh? Ill bet.

Half cocked breakers are easily as common as a tripped gfi. I'm sure you all get "well l watched a video how to change my plugs" and now the counter split plugs wont turn on.


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## greenlee (Feb 7, 2012)

I've reset tripped breakers a hundred times with the customer telling me its not that because he checked the breaker already. Trying to switch it on from tripped position without clicking it off first. They are always amazed when I do it and the lights go on. I charge a service call and go on my way.


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## Viggmundir (Sep 13, 2019)

Got a call about a month ago, lady needed help. The phone guys had been out to hookup internet to the customer's new RTM, but there was no hole anywhere for them to bring the cable in. Company policy was they were not allowed to drill the hole themselves, told the customer to get an electrician. They even left her the chunk of 1" PVC conduit to go in the hole. She was totally willing to pay me to drive over and drill the hole for her if I could do it that day. It was a 80km/55min drive each way for me to do it...


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

greenlee said:


> I've reset tripped breakers a hundred times with the customer telling me its not that because he checked the breaker already. Trying to switch it on from tripped position without clicking it off first. They are always amazed when I do it and the lights go on. I charge a service call and go on my way.


I think I have mentioned that before on a differenct thread... has also happened to me over and over. HO's will even do that on QO's when the red flag is showing. I even had one HO'er tell me, "I ain't going no where near a breaker panel!"


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Viggmundir said:


> Company policy was they were not allowed to drill the hole themselves, told the customer to get an electrician.


This actually is not a bad idea. We have already had to repair a service when an internet guy stuck his bit into the service cable.

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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Forge Boyz said:


> This actually is not a bad idea. We have already had to repair a service when an internet guy stuck his bit into the service cable.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Usually they just cause major damage when they do this through siding in a second floor with no flashing or sealing of any kind, not even a drip loop in the cable. CATV is worse than telco which is saying something.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

As a favor to an older neighbor lady who was having trouble with her outdoor Christmas lights that would not light up.

Turns out she had several strings plugged into a multi outlet plug strip …….but she failed to plug the outlet strip into a live wall receptacle. Wa la, problem solved!


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

happened numerous times:

HO has receptacle stop working

So he changes out receptacle

and it *still *doesn't work!


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

LMAOOOOOO . . been there done that, try to explain and they still dont understand


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

HO says breaker keeps tripping, i replaced it with bigger one, still tripping

i get there and ohm it out, dead short.
Usually a plug stabbed in the back with a heater plugged into it and obviously burned. Inside the insulation is so charred the hot has welded to the neutral or ground.
Then the long explanation about never use a bigger breaker (which i can tell they dont understand or believe). I figger the next ppl he calls will be the fire dept


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

readydave8 said:


> happened numerous times:
> 
> HO has receptacle stop working
> 
> ...


I have had many calls exactly like that. The last time it turned out that the neutral had worked loose from the neutral bar in an old FPE load center. Also had the same thing happen many times with light switches, HO changes the switch on his own, but still no go. On one of those service calls it turned out the only thing wrong was that bulb had burned out in the ceiling fixture!


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Quickservice said:


> I have had many calls exactly like that. The last time it turned out that the neutral had worked loose from the neutral bar in an old FPE load center. Also had the same thing happen many times with light switches, HO changes the switch on his own, but still no go. On one of those service calls it turned out the only thing wrong was that bulb had burned out in the ceiling fixture!


Burned out bulb. I have seen that more than once myself. Especially on older women, less often on men, but they do it too.
"Have you checked the bulb?" Yes. (no other probs found) "Do you have another bulb?" Yes. (they get it out of a plain cardboard box of loose bulbs.) "This one is working." (they put the bad bulb back in the same box)


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

Quickservice said:


> Got a call from a friend who said his brother's (120V) window air conditioner was tripping a breaker. Turned out that the guy had installed the unit in a sunroom that had been added to the house... less any receptacles. So he ran a drop cord from the air conditioner to an outlet in his kitchen. Yep, you guessed it, it was on the same circuit as the refrigerator. Now get this, there was an outlet, on a circuit that had only two table lamps on it just inside the sunroom door but *he was too lazy to use it because it had a hutch sitting in front of it!*
> 
> I went ahead and installed a new receptacle under the air conditioner. By-the-way, his garage was completely packed with junk. Unreal!


Are you ready for this.... The guy (The brother of my friend) called me back the next day and said that I must have done something wrong because his ceiling fan in that sunroom was not working. Groan! Turns out that he had tripped the GFCI in the sunroom with an old worn out boom box, and yes, the ceiling fan was fed down stream from the GFCI!!


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Almost Retired said:


> Burned out bulb. I have seen that more than once myself. Especially on older women, less often on men, but they do it too.
> "Have you checked the bulb?" Yes. (no other probs found) "Do you have another bulb?" Yes. (they get it out of a plain cardboard box of loose bulbs.) "This one is working." (they put the bad bulb back in the same box)


That is more common than you would believe.
I've even run into calls where the customer bought cheap offshore bulbs from the big box stores and had them DOA.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

wcord said:


> That is more common than you would believe.
> I've even run into calls where the customer bought *cheap offshore bulbs* from the big box stores and had them DOA.


There was a thread on ET last year where a bunch of guys (Including me) were complaining about the drivers going bad in off-shore LED bulbs.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

I got called for "everything in this house isn't working!" Young couple, first home, they got stuck with a bad flip. Among the bad backstabs, not a single ground wire connected, bad bulbs, junk switches, mystery switches mounted at outlet height (they opted to let the mystery remain as long as wiring in box was safe- i couldn't readily find what they controlled)... the "strangest" thing in that place was tv outlet turned off by a 20A 2 pole breaker AND a 20A 1p. I landed the neutral from the 2p on the N bus, and had them monitor for a week or two to see if they noticed anything not working. During my next couple calls to them, i went over every outlet and switch, including the ac disco. Everything worked. I mentioned that since literally every device i opened had problems, they might want to have me check the lights/fans. "No... i feel safe knowing that the outlets are good."


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

WannabeTesla said:


> I got called for "everything in this house isn't working!" Young couple, first home, they got stuck with a bad flip. Among the *bad backstabs*, not a single ground wire connected, bad bulbs, junk switches, mystery switches mounted at outlet height (they opted to let the mystery remain as long as wiring in box was safe- i couldn't readily find what they controlled)... the "strangest" thing in that place was tv outlet turned off by a 20A 2 pole breaker AND a 20A 1p. I landed the neutral from the 2p on the N bus, and had them monitor for a week or two to see if they noticed anything not working. During my next couple calls to them, i went over every outlet and switch, including the ac disco. Everything worked. I mentioned that since literally every device i opened had problems, they might want to have me check the lights/fans. "No... i feel safe knowing that the outlets are good."


I groan every time I think about all the bad backstabs I have encountered... some of them scorched black. Has to be one of the worst deisgns ever that UL approved.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Quickservice said:


> I groan every time I think about all the bad backstabs I have encountered... some of them scorched black. Has to be one of the worst deisgns ever that UL approved.


I have seen many newer back stabs burn the insulation back at least 3/4 inch on hot and neutral.

however, i have seen some 60 or 70s era back stabs that were still in very good shape, they also accepted #12AWG

Apparently somebody said these were too Over engineered and were lasting too long, lets drop the bar a bit and see if we can sell more plugs


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

Hmmm... any thoughts on the 2 breaker tv outlet?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Quickservice said:


> I groan every time I think about all the bad backstabs I have encountered... some of them scorched black. * Has to be one of the worst designs ever that UL approved.*





Almost Retired said:


> however, i have seen some 60 or 70s era back stabs that were still in very good shape, they also accepted #12AWG
> *Apparently somebody said these were too Over engineered and were lasting too long, lets drop the bar a bit and see if we can sell more plugs*


Had to be one of these two, either lax testing or "value engineering." 🤢 

I don't want to throw the backstab out with the bathwater. 

I have used spring clamp type terminal blocks etc., the clamps in there seem much better made than the junk you find inside $0.79 receptacles. 

I hear mixed reviews of the push-in type wire connectors like Wago and Ideal make, I suspect they are pretty good, about as good as wire nuts. The Wago lever nuts have been discussed a LOT on here, there are a lot of people that say "I don't trust them" but little or none that have been found to actually fail.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

WannabeTesla said:


> the "strangest" thing in that place was tv outlet turned off by a 20A 2 pole breaker AND a 20A 1p.





WannabeTesla said:


> Hmmm... any thoughts on the 2 breaker tv outlet?


So if either breaker was turned off, the receptacle was off? That is weird...


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Quickservice said:


> I groan every time I think about all the bad backstabs I have encountered... some of them scorched black. Has to be one of the worst deisgns ever that UL turned a blind eye to.


FIFY.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

In all honesty how much worse would this trade be if a Ralph Nader would take up back stab devices as Unsafe At Any Gauge.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

splatz said:


> The Wago lever nuts [...] little or none that have been found to actually fail.


Agreed. My primary issue with the lever vs nuts debate is that (in my experience) guys will be difficult about using both/either. My opinion is just use what's available and get it finished. I frequently hear that this or that one is junk. I'm all for using what you like but sometimes you don't have what you like and walking away from the job because of that is a bad option to exercise. If a guy has bad fingers, i get it. Use only the levers. But if an apprentice is saying he uses the levers exclusively, I'm gonna beat him up on it because nuts are far from obsolete at this point and, in my opinion at least, every competent worker knows how to finish the job using multiple methods.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> FIFY.


'Was paid to turn a blind eye to..........'


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

splatz said:


> So if either breaker was turned off, the receptacle was off? That is weird...


Yes. After removing the neutral from the 2p and landing it on the bus, everything worked Nirmal and only the 1p operated the receptacle. Monitored home for several weeks and nothing else changed after relocating the neutral. I verified neutral at the receptacle before and after.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

splatz said:


> So if either breaker was turned off, the receptacle was off? That is weird...


Wait. Both breakers had to be on to have the outlet on, or both breakers had to be off to turn if off? Big difference.


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

johnnygreenham said:


> I wired a small new build for some customers last year. They were super happy with everything but called me back about the switch at the bottom of the stairs to the basement. The lady asked that I rotate the switch in the box as it annoyed her husband that the light came on when the toggle was flipped down


I had 1 customer that was so obsessive about which way the switch went that I changed both switches out to double throw momentary and put in a latching relay. He was quite happy to pay the full bill and just kept asking why the other electrician didn't wire it that way. 

-- 
Tom Horne


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

hornetd said:


> I had 1 customer that was so obsessive about which way the switch went that I changed both switches out to double throw momentary and put in a latching relay. He was quite happy to pay the full bill and just kept asking why the other electrician didn't wire it that way.
> 
> --
> Tom Horne


That's not a bad idea.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

460 Delta said:


> FIFY.


Perfect FIFY!


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

dspiffy said:


> Wait. Both breakers had to be on to have the outlet on, or both breakers had to be off to turn if off? Big difference.


You read my mind.... or was the whole thing mind blowing?!


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Quickservice said:


> the only thing wrong was that bulb had burned out in the ceiling fixture!


I get some of those, and some where they put in a new bulb that was bad


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

dspiffy said:


> Wait. Both breakers had to be on to have the outlet on, or both breakers had to be off to turn if off? Big difference.


Both had to be on- the 2p and the 1p.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

WannabeTesla said:


> Both had to be on- the 2p and the 1p.


Sounds like they were somehow wired in series. Turn either one off and you loose the feed to the circuit.


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## deltahigh360 (Oct 7, 2021)

forgot to mention, I’m not an electrician. Just a stupid homeowner. Probably will get banned after this post, but I love this **** and felt like showing off my work (even though it’s crap).


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

WannabeTesla said:


> Both had to be on- the 2p and the 1p.


That is by far the stranger answer.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

A Little Short said:


> Sounds like they were somehow wired in series. Turn either one off and you loose the feed to the circuit.


This one is pretty strange.
How would you wire two breakers installed in a panel in series?


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

Ill


deltahigh360 said:


> View attachment 159787
> View attachment 159789
> 
> 
> ...


I’ll bite…why is there an IR camera in your basement? Ghosts?


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

cuba_pete said:


> Ill
> I’ll bite…why is there an IR camera in your basement? Ghosts?


His pictures (and statement) open up a whole lot of questions and I dont want to know the answers to any of them.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

wiz1997 said:


> This one is pretty strange.
> How would you wire two breakers installed in a panel in series?


. . . backfeeding, somewhere? I've approached this from all sides and cant get there.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

WannabeTesla said:


> Both had to be on- the 2p and the 1p.



2p is feeding a 120/240 load with a bad neutral back to the panel. 1P is bugged on the same neutral bad neutral.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Got called to the office as 2 lady's had lost power to there desks. Under the desk they both had surge suppression power strips.
Somehow they had managed to plug one power strip into the other then repeat the problem and plugged that power strip back into the first. Funny thing is no one noticed the receptacles had nothing plugged into them.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

A Little Short said:


> Sounds like they were somehow wired in series. Turn either one off and you loose the feed to the circuit.


how can you wire circuit breakers in series?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

gpop said:


> 2p is feeding a 120/240 load with a bad neutral back to the panel. 1P is bugged on the same neutral bad neutral.


I have seen " bugged on " used here before, im not familiar with and not sure what you mean with that term ?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> I have seen " bugged on " used here before, im not familiar with and not sure what you mean with that term ?


Tapped on or connected to. Around here oldsters say Kearneyed on.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

460 Delta said:


> Tapped on or connected to. Around here oldsters say Kearneyed on.


My old journeyman said kearneyed LOL. and that was the only thing i knew about if it wouldnt fit in a big blue wnut LOL

I am going to assume this is single phase. So in other words he had a 120/240 MWBC (we say 12-3 feeder) and some one else added another circuit to it from a third pole breaker? So now you have twice the current on the neutral and that second circuit is a real problem


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## deltahigh360 (Oct 7, 2021)

cuba_pete said:


> Ill
> I’ll bite…why is there an IR camera in your basement? Ghosts?


Originally was a two family when I bought it. Had to give basement access to tenant. Just wanted to make sure I had proof if they ever fooled with the electric or furnace. Ive learned to cover my ass over the years.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

deltahigh360 said:


> View attachment 159787
> View attachment 159789
> 
> 
> ...


have you counted the total degrees of bends between pull points ?
if you havent some of those may not pull


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## deltahigh360 (Oct 7, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> have you counted the total degrees of bends between pull points ?
> if you havent some of those may not pull


Everything is below 360. The 12 solid is a bitch but I’m getting it. The 4 point saddles into offset were bent with a 3/4 bender at 22.5. And then the 3/4 was bent at just over 10 degrees. (180 degrees in those 4 runs). Wanted the 1/2” to match the 3/4. Still dogged the 3/4 piece which pisses me off but whatever.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

I always make it a point to make the 4th 90 a pull point (LB, or box) I seriously avoid more than 270 total degrees


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

deltahigh360 said:


> Originally was a two family when I bought it. Had to give basement access to tenant. Just wanted to make sure I had proof if they ever fooled with the electric or furnace. Ive learned to cover my ass over the years.


Good call


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

gpop said:


> 2p is feeding a 120/240 load with a bad neutral back to the panel. 1P is bugged on the same neutral bad neutral.


But he said he repaired the problem by landing one side of the 2 pole to the neutral. Doesnt sound like there could have been a separate load.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

WannabeTesla said:


> Yes. After removing the neutral from the 2p and landing it on the bus, everything worked Nirmal and only the 1p operated the receptacle. Monitored home for several weeks and nothing else changed after relocating the neutral. I verified neutral at the receptacle before and after.


@WannabeTesla so you are saying there was an actual neutral connected to a 2pole breaker, im wondering why that didnt put 220V on everything and burn it up?


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

dspiffy said:


> . . . backfeeding, somewhere? I've approached this from all sides and cant get there.





gpop said:


> 2p is feeding a 120/240 load with a bad neutral back to the panel. 1P is bugged on the same neutral bad neutral.





Almost Retired said:


> how can you wire circuit breakers in series?





dspiffy said:


> But he said he repaired the problem by landing one side of the 2 pole to the neutral. Doesnt sound like there could have been a separate load.





Almost Retired said:


> @WannabeTesla so you are saying there was an actual neutral connected to a 2pole breaker, im wondering why that didnt put 220V on everything and burn it up?


I'm stumped too. I can go back and recreate it if i want. They're great people. I can't recall ever coming across this before. I was going to stick a ground rod in and bond it to the roof then keep quiet about it for 6 years, but then i realized that others might enjoy being baffled as well.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

WannabeTesla said:


> I'm stumped too. I can go back and recreate it if i want. They're great people. I can't recall ever coming across this before. I was going to stick a ground rod in and bond it to the roof then keep quiet about it for 6 years, but then i realized that others might enjoy being baffled as well.












This is what i thought. By fixing the neutral back to the bar the light bulb goes back to only working with one breaker.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

460 Delta said:


> Tapped on or connected to. Around here oldsters say Kearneyed on.


Its normally used here as a slang term for a less than code connection. 

"I needed a neutral so i just bugged the closest white wire"


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

gpop said:


> View attachment 159833
> 
> 
> This is what i thought. By fixing the neutral back to the bar the light bulb goes back to only working with one breaker.


But he solved it by taking one side of "unknown load" and connecting it to neutral. That would result in
1. A short
2. Whatever the unknown load is no longer working.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

Neutral was present before and after fix.
I really wanted to find the actual problem but not on my $0.1. So i read the symptoms, metered everything as i went, randomly switched some things around (like a boss!), and walked away.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

dspiffy said:


> But he solved it by taking one side of "unknown load" and connecting it to neutral. That would result in
> 1. A short
> 2. Whatever the unknown load is no longer working.


" i couldn't readily find what they controlled)... the "strangest" thing in that place was tv outlet turned off by a 20A 2 pole breaker AND a 20A 1p. I landed the neutral from the 2p on the N bus, and had them monitor for a week or two to see if they noticed anything not working. During my next couple calls to them, i went over every outlet and switch, including the ac disco. Everything worked. I mentioned that since literally every device i opened had problems, they might want to have me check the lights/fans. "No... i feel safe knowing that the outlets are good."

I read that as the neutral was not landed "I landed the neutral from the 2p on the N bus"


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

dspiffy said:


> But he solved it by taking one side of "unknown load" and connecting it to neutral. That would result in
> 1. A short
> 2. Whatever the unknown load is no longer working.



1/ nope it would just half the voltage over 2 unknown loads (load / loads would still be there)
2/ depends if it can handle half the voltage. Not sure what the cut off voltage is for a led bulb.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Still works just a little low on voltage


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

It was an outlet circuit. I didn't find anything other than 120 wherever i put my leads. Chirp stick chirped appropriately. The only thing they had on at the time was the tv.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

gpop said:


> View attachment 159835
> 
> 
> Still works just a little low on voltage


Maybe if it was a resistive load, but not a TV.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

wiz1997 said:


> This one is pretty strange.
> How would you wire two breakers installed in a panel in series?


If you notice, I said "somehow". So I don't know. I was just going by the symptoms. I have found switches wired in series where both switches had to be on for the load to work.


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