# Gable end whole house exhaust fan..



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

This is the kind of fan I try and sell.. but Grainger is making this harder to sell..

The fan.. shutter motor and AL shutter goes for about $1000.00 just for parts..

They really do the job, but does anyone know of a different company that is more price friendly..

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...uery=7cc91&op=search&Ntt=7cc91&N=0&sst=subset


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm not even going to bother with a reply.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Anybody but Grainger. Seriously.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Anybody but Grainger. Seriously.


I agree.. but I am not going to HD or Lowes and buying Chinese crap..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I agree.. but I am not going to HD or Lowes and buying Chinese crap..


The Nutone stuff isn't a whole lot different. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The Nutone stuff isn't a whole lot different. :no:


Nutone USED to be good until Broan bought them out.. the first thing they changed to junk was the QT-110 bath exhaust fans..

The motor assembly on the new models are held in place with a wing nut..


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

They make gable end fans. That is a whole house fan -- why do you need a shutter? Is your Gable end vent that large or do you cut it thru the wall?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is a whole house fan --


He wants a whole house fan.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> He wants a whole house fan.


...to mount on the gable end? :blink: I might be a rookie but that's a new one on me.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I have the customer sold on a 30" gable end fan.. best thing you can have next to central A/C..

You can ventilate a (2) story house in a few minutes..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> ...to mount on the gable end? :blink: I might be a rookie but that's a new one on me.


They have a pull down attic stairs.. putting the fan on gable end vents the house and attic at the same time..

Also much quieter than a fan mounted in the hallway..


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

So you put the shutter in the ceiling and pull the insulation thru the attic- hope it isn't blown in....?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> So you put the shutter in the ceiling and pull the insulation thru the attic- hope it isn't blown in....?


No.. AL motorized shutter goes on gable end.. you just need to pull attic stairs down a few inches for air flow..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I've done service on similar installs, although there was a vent in the ceiling of each room with a flap that would open when the fan came on.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> I've done service on similar installs, although there was a vent in the ceiling of each room with a flap that would open when the fan came on.


With this fan, you just need to open a window in every room when the sun goes down..

It pulls out the hot air and brings in the cool outside air..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> With this fan, you just need to open a window in every room when the sun goes down..
> 
> It pulls out the hot air and brings in the cool outside air..


Yeah that was the other thing, crack the windows, worked well.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Find a poultry house supplier. They have complete fan assemblies for chicken house exhaust use. Much more reasonable than Grainger.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

kbsparky said:


> Find a poultry house supplier. They have complete fan assemblies for chicken house exhaust use. Much more reasonable than Grainger.


Goodluck on finding one of those on LI......Might be calling Jersey for that. What was farms is now mcmansions.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The internet is your friend. http://blujay.com/item/Attic-Fan-Home-Power-Exhaust-Gable-End-Mount-New-11220000-2948722


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> No.. AL motorized shutter goes on gable end.. you just need to pull attic stairs down a few inches for air flow..


I used to think, maybe he isn't really as much of a hack as everybody here makes him out to be. I was wrong. What a ******** setup.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

My father installed it like that 40 years ago. Belt driven and spring loaded shutters. It cooled that 2 story house in minutes. It didn't pull any insulation out, didn't make much noise and we had a hatch for the attic not stairs. Was on a timer in the hall. Thus was in central NJ. I plan to do the same here if I find the free time.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

There is no question they work well. They are noisy so I guess that is why B4T puts them in the gable. I would think if the house had good ventilation you would loose alot of the suction thru the gable vents, etc.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> I used to think, maybe he isn't really as much of a hack as everybody here makes him out to be. I was wrong. What a ******** setup.


Gee ..... you almost make me feel bad that I have a set up very much like that in my own home.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> T I would think if the house had good ventilation you would loose alot of the suction thru the gable vents, etc.


I think you are likely right, I am betting most of the homes that B4T does are older homes like my own with limited attic existing ventilation.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> No.. AL motorized shutter goes on gable end.. you just need to pull attic stairs down a few inches for air flow..





electricmanscott said:


> I used to think, maybe he isn't really as much of a hack as everybody here makes him out to be. I was wrong. What a ******** setup.





BBQ said:


> Gee ..... you almost make me feel bad that I have a set up very much like that in my own home.


So are you saying he's NOT a hack?? :laughing:

Really what I was getting at is simple. I'd be embarrassed to have to tell a customer they have to leave their attic stairs open for this fan I just installed to work effectively. A hacky setup, IMO.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I used to think, maybe he isn't really as much of a hack as everybody here makes him out to be. I was wrong. What a ******** setup.


Then you are more of a loud mouth moron than I thought before..

You really have no clue what you are talking about.. :no:

No wonder you couldn't make it in business..


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> Then you are more of a loud mouth moron than I thought before..
> 
> You really have no clue what you are talking about.. :no:
> 
> No wonder you couldn't make it in business..


:stupid: ........


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Really what I was getting at is simple. I'd be embarrassed to have to tell a customer they have to leave their attic stairs open for this fan I just installed to work effectively. A hacky setup, IMO.


So it is much better to cut a 30X30 hole in the hallway after I take out the attic stairs and then cut a 12X16 hole in a closet to get access to the attic..

Great planning there Scott.. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Personally I probably wouldn't want to have to pull the attic stairs down to use the fan.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I am so loving that I got under your skin. Happy Friday. :drink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> There is no question they work well. They are noisy so I guess that is why B4T puts them in the gable. I would think if the house had good ventilation you would loose alot of the suction thru the gable vents, etc.


I have used that setup in new houses also.. a fan can only pull out as much air as it can take in..

The attic vents are no where near the capacity of the fan and opening all the windows creates a draft everywhere..


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> So it is much better to cut a 30X30 hole in the hallway after I take out the attic stairs and then cut a 12X16 hole in a closet to get access to the attic..
> 
> Great planning there Scott.. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


 Why would you take out the stairs??? 

Just install the fan properly in its own opening.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I am so loving that I got under your skin. Happy Friday. :drink:


No.. you just make really stupid posts when you have no clue what you are talking about.. :no:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> No.. you just make really stupid posts when you have no clue what you are talking about.. :no:


Oh I know exactly what I'm talking about. Hack installations. :jester:

Having to prop open a pull down attic stair a few inches for ventilation is a third rate hack installation. Not to mention, would probably not provide a large enough opening for effective ventilation.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> No.. you just make really stupid posts when you have no clue what you are talking about.. :no:


Whats worse, stupid posts or stupid people????

See below....




> So it looks like Donald Chump has fooled a lot of people.. including me


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> No wonder you couldn't make it in business..


Do you want to compare schedule c's for the last two decades?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Why would you take out the stairs???
> 
> Just install the fan properly in its own opening.


OK.. so I will move the hallway recessed lights to make the room..

Then I will add move vents to the roof because you can't force out the CFM's the fan can pull into the house..

Then I will build a insulated box to put over the fan in winter time..

YES.. doing all that is much easier than pulling down the attic stairs a few inches..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> I've done service on similar installs, although there was a vent in the ceiling of each room with a flap that would open when the fan came on.


This is the way to go if you are gonna put the fan in the gabble.










No need to mess with the stairs.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> OK.. so I will move the hallway recessed lights to make the room..
> 
> Then I will add move vents to the roof because you can't force out the CFM's the fan can pull into the house..
> 
> ...


    

:lol:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Personally I probably wouldn't want to have to pull the attic stairs down to use the fan.


The customer gets the option of either that or the hallway shutter with insulated box..

Most people.. yes I have sold many of these over the years.. just use a small block of wood and leave the stairs down for the summer..

The house stays cooler this way also since there is constant air flow when the hot air is not trapped in the second story rooms..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> This is the way to go if you are gonna put the fan in the gabble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never seen that before.. but we don't live in a desert and that box would still need to be insulated for the winter..

The attic stairs is a really simple thing to do.. I have never had a customer ask me for another way..


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> This is the way to go if you are gonna put the fan in the gabble.
> 
> No need to mess with the stairs.


I heard of this. With a water curtain at each window it cools the house like a giant swamp cooler. 
I have to get them when I do my fan. Thanks


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> Never seen that before.. but we don't live in a desert and that box would still need to be insulated for the winter..


The HVAC guys in colder areas here just wrap the sides in some pink insulation.... never really bothered to take any temp measurements to see how they do in the winter but I'd bet it's not much different then a can light.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Personally I probably wouldn't want to have to pull the attic stairs down to use the fan.


I agree, and this would be an unacceptable way for me to sell this job. It's also very energy ineffecient to leave your attic stairs propped open during the summer.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You would need (3) of them for a standard attic it looks like..

http://www.dialmfg.com/Technical Assistance/TECHINICAL PDF DOCUMENTS/Updux Venitlation.pdf


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I agree, and this would be an unacceptable way for me to sell this job. It's also very energy ineffecient to leave your attic stairs propped open during the summer.


Why is it energy inefficient during the summer since you are creating natural air flow that keeps the hot air from being trapped in the second story.. :blink:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod1;ft1_cooling_exhaust_fans-ft1_exhaust_fans;pg109286.html


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> The HVAC guys in colder areas here just wrap the sides in some pink insulation.... never really bothered to take any temp measurements to see how they do in the winter but I'd bet it's not much different then a can light.


Someone still has to do this two times a year.. still easier using attic stairs and no extra work..

All these complaints about having to pull on a string hanging from the ceiling just does not happen on my installations since the stairs have been there for years to begin with..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Why is it energy inefficient during the summer since you are creating natural air flow that keeps the hot air from being trapped in the second story.. :blink:


Without good attic ventilation, the heat is going to stay trapped. Are you adding the proper amount of attic ventilation?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

backstay said:


> http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod1;ft1_cooling_exhaust_fans-ft1_exhaust_fans;pg109286.html


Those cost even more than Grainger and the installation would be more involved..

I use a motorized shutter.. so I need space between both units..

A shutter motor increases the efficiency of the fan since there is no resistance to air flow..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bottom line for me is - if people go for putting a block of wood to keep their stairs propped open, go for it.

To me, it's lazy hack work to go that route. Installing the proper shutters shouldn't be a great hardship.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Without good attic ventilation, the heat is going to stay trapped. Are you adding the proper amount of attic ventilation?


Yes.. I am cutting a 30" hole into the side of the house.. the shutters are not air tight..

The average roof life is (25) years and roofers always sell more venting with a new roof.. that is a no brainer for them.. surprising.. isn't it..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> Someone still has to do this two times a year..


:blink: I mean the wrap the sides when they install it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Bottom line for me is - if people go for putting a block of wood to keep their stairs propped open, go for it.
> 
> To me, it's lazy hack work to go that route. Installing the proper shutters shouldn't be a great hardship.


I have spelled out ALL the reasons for the design of the job and you call it hack work.. you just don't get it.. move on to a different thread.. you have nothing of interest to post here anymore.. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> :blink: I mean the wrap the sides when they install it.


Who is going to winterize this tin box in the winter time.. :blink:

You will have heat leaking through the top of the box..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> Who is going to winterize this tin box in the winter time.. :blink:
> 
> You will have heat leaking through the top of the box..


Yeah I couldn't find a picture of the plastic ones I'm used to, they have a seal at the top.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have spelled out ALL the reasons for the design of the job and you call it hack work.. you just don't get it.. move on to a different thread..


I think I get it just fine. You said:




B4T said:


> The customer gets the option of either that or the hallway shutter with insulated box..
> 
> Most people.. yes I have sold many of these over the years.. just use a small block of wood and leave the stairs down for the summer..


It sounds like you do this on most jobs, no?

Like I said, if people go for this, fine. I still say it's amateur hack work when there are products made for a proper solution to this.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It sounds like you do this on most jobs, no?
> 
> Like I said, if people go for this, fine. I still say it's amateur hack work when there are products made for a proper solution to this.


I have even sold the customer attic stairs that worked with the fan AND for storage..

Also better lighting in the attic becomes necessary.. always a way to make improvements to existing conditions..

People don't have all the objections you seem to find.. so since they are paying me money.. the problem is YOU.. 

Keep in mind these fans are geared toward people who can't afford to keep AC running 24/7 and paying $900.00 a month for electric.. 

But feel free to call it a hack job even if you are the only person with that opinion.. :notworthy:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Personally I probably wouldn't want to have to pull the attic stairs down to use the fan.


Well....you have to go around and crack all the windows so it wouldn't be a lot of extra work to open the hatch/stairs.

Whole house fans are rare here but they would work well a few weeks out of the year, like right now, at night.

I did a similar installation about a year ago. It was the customers design. I haven't been back there to see if it worked out for him.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

What do y'all do about whole house fans installed where there are gas appliances? Seems like it would blow all the pilots out any time you kicked this thing on.

-John


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Well....you have to go around and crack all the windows so it wouldn't be a lot of extra work to open the hatch/stairs.
> Whole house fans are rare here but they would work well a few weeks out of the year, like right now, at night.


I give the customer options on how they want to control the air access from the rest of the house..

A hallway mounted 30" shutter motor, shutter, and installation can add $350.00 to the price..

If I put the 30" fan in the hallway.. I still have to add attic vents since I can only take in the same volume of air as I can exhaust..

That is why a gable mounted fan works so well and you don't get the racket of a fan mounted in the hallway..

A hallway mounted fan needs an insulated box built around it for the winter time to keep the heat from entering through the shutter..

I have done enough of these to know what I am talking about.. but some of you guys bitch, moan, and complain the minute I make a post..

You all know who you are.. :sleep1::thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Big John said:


> What do y'all do about whole house fans installed where there are gas appliances? Seems like it would blow all the pilots out any time you kicked this thing on.
> 
> -John


It does and has.. so I tell the customer to make sure the windows and doors are opened before operating the fan..

It also depends if the doors separating the mechanical room are open or closed..

95% of the time this is never a problem..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)




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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> But feel free to call it a hack job even if you are the only person with that opinion.. :notworthy:


Well actually Scott called you a hack too, so I'm not the only with that opinion.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Well actually Scott called you a hack too, so I'm not the only with that opinion.


Seems some of you guys from Massachusetts have many issues.. but there is hope since Harry turned out all right..:thumbup:

But you and Scott can continue your worthless post on my threads and maybe some day someone here will care what you think.. :sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Seems some of you guys from Massachusetts have many issues..


I'm not from Mass. 




> but there is hope since Harry turned out all right..:thumbup:


That's possibly one of the most mind blowing things I have ever read in my life. 



> But you and Scott can continue your worthless post on my threads and maybe some day someone here will care what you think..


Thanks for you permission, hack boy. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

"Well sir/ma'am. I can install a nice whole house ventilation system. There's just one detail you need to know about. In order for it to work properly you need to keep your attic pull down stairs open just a tad to let the air up and out of the house." 

:blink:

I can't even imagine having that conversation with a customer. I would be completely ashamed of myself. Unprofessional hack work. I stand by it. :thumbsup:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I can't say I'm a fan of the attic-stairs idea, but I'd have absolutely no problem offering it as a backup plan if they hemmed and hawed about the cost of installing shutter vents.

It's their house.

-John


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont like whole house fans....they really dont do much when its humid out...and it seems to always be humid here in the north east from may to early sept.....
When people want to vent their attics I usually go with roof fans..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> "Well sir/ma'am. I can install a nice whole house ventilation system. There's just one detail you need to know about. In order for it to work properly you need to keep your attic pull down stairs open just a tad to let the air up and out of the house."
> 
> :blink:
> 
> I can't even imagine having that conversation with a customer. I would be completely ashamed of myself. Unprofessional hack work. I stand by it. :thumbsup:


You must need reading glasses since I have explained it a few times and you STILL don't get it.. :no:

The customer gets options and I explain each one and what it cost.. no matter what I say.. you will always stand on a spackle bucket and yell hack..

The people paying the money are the ones I need to make happy.. you are like dog chit on the bottom of my sneaker.. useless :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I dont like whole house fans....they really dont do much when its humid out...and it seems to always be humid here in the north east from may to early sept.....
> When people want to vent their attics I usually go with roof fans..


True, whole house fans are pretty rare, attic-only vent fans are far more common.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I dont like whole house fans....they really dont do much when its humid out...and it seems to always be humid here in the north east from may to early sept.....
> When people want to vent their attics I usually go with roof fans..


The people I have installed them for have a much different take on the idea.. 

Right now it is 67 degrees outside.. when I got home tonight it was 87 in my house..

In (10) minutes all the hot air is gone and it is 70 in here.. :thumbsup:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I had a lady today ask me about instaling a exhaust fan...I told her they do work but dont expect your house to feel like it has air conditioning..It might help lower the temp on the top floor 5 degrees or so... but its better than nothing...
I try to keep it real for people. 
I put one in my home years ago before I got air conditioning installed and It helped a little but i cant say that it was really worth the effort, especially when its humid out.. 
Do you guys agree..? 
I would hate to have some one drop 1600- 2000 bucks expecting a huge differance.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> The customer gets options and I explain each one and what it cost.. no matter what I say.. you will always stand on a spackle bucket and yell hack..


Yes, telling a customer they need to leave their attic stairs ajar for the whole summer to make a vent system work is hack in my book. Sorry if you disagree, but it is. It would be hack if I did it, it would be hack if BBQ did it, it would be hack if your boy RobNJ did it. It would be hack if anyone did it. 



> The people paying the money are the ones I need to make happy.. you are like dog chit on the bottom of my sneaker.. useless :thumbsup:


You can upsell someone something nearly worthless like point-of-use GFCI protection on a counter top, but you can't upsell a set of attic fan shutters? Makes no sense whatsoever.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

B4T said:


> The people I have installed them for have a much different take on the idea..
> 
> Right now it is 67 degrees outside.. when I got home tonight it was 87 in my house..
> 
> In (10) minutes all the hot air is gone and it is 70 in here.. :thumbsup:


 I really think they are old school. There only good for a few weeks before all hell breaks loose. At least with a attic exhaust fan you can still run window ac's and not loose cool air with the whole house fan running.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I put one in my home years ago before I got air conditioning installed and It helped a little but i cant say that it was really worth the effort, especially when its humid out..
> Do you guys agree..?
> I would hate to have some one drop 1600- 2000 bucks expecting a huge differance.


I agree. Absolutely worthless for humid days. A $150 window shaker is a much better investment.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I had a lady today ask me about instaling a exhaust fan...I told her they do work but dont expect your house to feel like it has air conditioning..It might help lower the temp on the top floor 5 degrees or so... but its better than nothing...
> I try to keep it real for people.
> I put one in my home years ago before I got air conditioning installed and It helped a little but i cant say that it was really worth the effort, especially when its humid out..
> Do you guys agree..?
> I would hate to have some one drop 1600- 2000 bucks expecting a huge differance.


When the outside temp goes above 85.. a whole house fan won't do anything to make the house more comfortable..

It is at night when the temperature drops to say 75 that you can feel more comfortable..

Even people with central AC have used whole house fans because the AC has to work much less the cool the air..


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

It seems like every attic exhaust fan I see installed are usually installed incorrectly...The fan is working to expell air from the attic and it needs a way to make up the air it is taking out and so many times there is inadequet venting in the attic. People love to stuff their eave vents with insulation thinking they are doing good for winter insulation....
There has to be a way to get outside air into the attic for the fan to work properly...you guys agree?


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Down here, not many people install gable ends. Hell, not many gable ends to install them on... anyway, what we do have a lot of is the rooftop ventilators. either wind driven or electric. No, they don't make the house feel that much cooler but they do make the attic more bearable when you're up there.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

B4T said:


> When the outside temp goes above 85.. a whole house fan won't do anything to make the house more comfortable..
> 
> It is at night when the temperature drops to say 75 that you can feel more comfortable..
> 
> Even people with central AC have used whole house fans because the AC has to work much less the cool the air..


 Yea maybe.....years and years ago my parents had a whole house fan and it seemed to work ok but they have a small cape so there was alot of air flow to the upstairs..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yes, telling a customer they need to leave their attic stairs ajar for the whole summer to make a vent system work is hack in my book. Sorry if you disagree, but it is. It would be hack if I did it, it would be hack if BBQ did it, it would be hack if your boy RobNJ did it. It would be hack if anyone did it.
> 
> 
> 
> You can upsell someone something nearly worthless like point-of-use GFCI protection on a counter top, but you can't upsell a set of attic fan shutters? Makes no sense whatsoever.


LOL.. you are so full of good thoughts..too bad the people writing the check see things differently.. :thumbsup:

You really are a waste of time.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> LOL.. you are so full of good thoughts..too bad the people writing the check see things differently.. :thumbsup:
> 
> You really are a waste of time.. :no:


Why did you waste the time writing a reply then? :icon_wink:

If your customers don't mind paying for hack work, what can I say then? :laughing:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

B4T have you ever considered the whole house fans that go in the home like at the top of the stairs in the ceiling..? I think those might be a little better because they dont have to open the attic stairs at all..It basically pushes the air into the attic.. They even make ones that straddle the ceiling joists..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Damn I'm an idiot (shut up guys), I didn't see a big positive to B4T's idea, at least for somebody like me in a hot climate, I'd have the option of pulling the stairs open and using it as a whole house fan or leaving them closed and using it as an attic fan in the summer if I put in another controllable vent in the attic. 


Hum I'm considering this now.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Damn I'm an idiot (shut up guys), I didn't see a big positive to B4T's idea, at least for somebody like me in a hot climate, I'd have the option of pulling the stairs open and using it as a whole house fan or leaving them closed and using it as an attic fan in the summer if I put in another controllable vent in the attic.
> 
> 
> Hum I'm considering this now.


 Yea but you live in AZ. Its a dry heat out there...I was in Tuscon back in 96 and we were in the dessert for about two weeks, even at 110 it really wasnt that bad.... 85 degrees with high humidity is a bitch....and thats what its like here pretty much all summer.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Leaving your attic stairs open, even a tad, is going to radiate and convect quite a bit of heat back into the house.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

How dare you suggest anything different!! (professional) :laughing:



captkirk said:


> B4T have you ever considered the whole house fans that go in the home like at the top of the stairs in the ceiling..? I think those might be a little better because they dont have to open the attic stairs at all..It basically pushes the air into the attic.. They even make ones that straddle the ceiling joists..


Can't be done anyway! :no:



B4T said:


> OK.. so I will move the hallway recessed lights to make the room..
> 
> Then I will add move vents to the roof because you can't force out the CFM's the fan can pull into the house..
> 
> ...


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Why don't you assholes stop trolling b4t?

The setup he is talking about is a very common thing.

Seriously, a couple of you guys have turned into real ****ing assholes. You should go out and work instead of camping on here posting PVC box crap and calling people hacks for legitiamte work. You spend more time online talking about electrical work them actually working.

It is almost unbearable and causing members to go elsewhere.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> Why don't you assholes stop trolling b4t?


Why don't you stop trolling Rewire? 

I stand by what I said. Leaving your attic stairs propped open is hack work, plain and simple. There are far better ways to do the job than that.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Why don't you assholes stop trolling b4t?
> 
> The setup he is talking about is a very common thing.
> 
> ...


teehee. :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

This has gone far enough. If you all don't like what B4T did fine - you are entitled to your opinion but the name calling needs to stop. I for one would not have done it that way but if the customer prefers that to grills in the ceiling that need to get cover up n winter than so be it. It is not our call. 

Please stop the attack on members it is getting old and annoying and is against the rules.



> Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on ElectricianTalk.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> B4T have you ever considered the whole house fans that go in the home like at the top of the stairs in the ceiling..? I think those might be a little better because they dont have to open the attic stairs at all..It basically pushes the air into the attic.. They even make ones that straddle the ceiling joists..


I have been in hundreds of attics and always looked to see what someone else engineered..

Yes.. those types of fans are easier to install.. but most guys do not add roof venting..

Again.. you can only intake the volume of cooler air as you can exhaust the hot air..

To the HO.. it looks like the fan is working just fine.. but no where near the capacity it should be..

That type of fan still needs to be covered and uncovered (2) times a year to keep the cold attic air from flowing into the house..

The energy code has us using a sealed can for a 6" light because of heat loss.. 

How much heat loss will you get by a 30"X30" hole through the insulation..  

I don't tell the customer they have to use the attic stairs for air intake..

It is only an option and saves them money..

Without attic stairs.. I mount a 24'X24" motorized shutter in the hallway..

I build a box out of 2" rigid insulation board that gets assembled on site since it won't fit through the shutter opening..


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

We are obviously talking about bargain basement cooling here. After all it's B4T installing it and he did start this thread asking about a cheaper fan to use. The design seems to be quite focused on a specific use, namely having a house closed up all day, coming home and turning on an attic vent fan and cracking open the stair and opening windows to pull in cooler air. If cheap enough and you are willing to deal with it, why not? 

Now does anyone know of a cheap enough fan to make this worth bothering with?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

*Pics of the fan setup in my house..*

I install a (3) gang box by fan.. switch for shutter motor.. switch for fan motor.. receptacle for portable fan needed by installer.. me.. 










Having a switch allows me to open shutter while changing belt.. fan is almost (30) years old.. all original except for belt..










Fan is mounted on 3/4" rubber strips to cut down on vibration..










Having a motorized shutter helps the air flow since the shutter is held open mechanically..










I installed an awning window in attic for natural light and increased air flow..










Outside shutter is aluminum is just needs a good cleaning.. still in perfect working condition..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I like it :thumbsup:, you sold me on this idea.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


>



Brown devices, white plate?

Tacky, very very tacky. :laughing:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

The idea of covering up the fan opening for winter to keep the cold out is not a valid reason to not install a fan. 
The idea of attic ventilation is to remove as much heat as posable both during the summer and winter. It makes the roof last longer. 
Attic insulation is more important then anything else to keep the cooling/heating were you need it most, downstairs. 
Installing it like B4T did is a good idea.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Looks good...:thumbup:

They don't make fans that heavy duty anymore..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Brown devices, white plate?
> 
> Tacky, very very tacky. :laughing:


I agree.. brown was the norm (30) years ago..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> They don't make fans that heavy duty anymore..


Dayton fans are still made heavy duty.. almost seems impossible during "cheap China" times.. I closed the sale yesterday for this fan job.. :thumbup:

Grainger is over priced.. but sometimes you got to bite the bullet..


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Is yours an A or B sized belt?
I find the BX sized last longer in attics especially when they are idle for long periods. 
Direct drive is what I plan on doing. 
I change enough belts at work on my slow days and hate it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> Is yours an A or B sized belt?
> I find the BX sized last longer in attics especially when they are idle for long periods.
> Direct drive is what I plan on doing.
> I change enough belts at work on my slow days and hate it.


I have no clue what the difference is.. but when this one breaks I will be sure to get a "BX" style.. :thumbsup:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

B4T said:


> I have no clue what the difference is.. but when this one breaks I will be sure to get a "BX" style.. :thumbsup:


A or B is how wide it is 
A-47 is A sized & 47 inches long. 
B-47 is a little wider & 47 inches long. 
The X style belt is ribbed looking on the inside and not smooth. The X style just seem to last longer IMO. 
Anything other then Opti-belt brand. They stink and seem to fray & split faster. 
A belt should sit in the sheeves with just a peek of belt showing above the sheeve. 
Alot of people like to put A sized belts on a B sized sheeve. They ride down inside and get ripped up quicker. Makes for more service calls. Also using an adjustable sheeve allows for greater setting of the fan speed but the trade off is a shredded belt. 

Other sizing is 4L320 and 5L320, ect,ect. 
This kind of belt sizing is a pain to remember how they cross reference to the A,B,C belt sizing and length. I keep a reference chart on my truck and always write it on the outside of roof top exhaust fans. Make life easier for the next guy.

Oh ya, of you do service calls for belts, feel the sheaves. If they are groved and worn, you can sell the replacement sheaves. And the customer saves $$ with a more efficient fan and fewer belt changes.


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> The idea of covering up the fan opening for winter to keep the cold out is not a valid reason to not install a fan.
> The idea of attic ventilation is to remove as much heat as posable both during the summer and winter. It makes the roof last longer.
> Attic insulation is more important then anything else to keep the cooling/heating were you need it most, downstairs.
> Installing it like B4T did is a good idea.


These whole house fans have a door that automatically closes when it's not in operation and forms an airtite seal. The doors have R22 insulation. No need to seal anything up in the winter. Nice price too roughly $500
http://www.suburbanfan.com/tamarack/hv-1000


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> These whole house fans have a door that automatically closes when it's not in operation and forms an airtite seal. The doors have R22 insulation. No need to seal anything up in the winter. Nice price too roughly $500
> http://www.suburbanfan.com/tamarack/hv-1000


You still need roof venting and will that company be around in a few years when spare parts are needed..


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> These whole house fans have a door that automatically closes when it's not in operation and forms an airtite seal. The doors have R22 insulation. No need to seal anything up in the winter. Nice price too roughly $500
> http://www.suburbanfan.com/tamarack/hv-1000


I like that, and the insulated doors are great.
But I personally hate the sound of a ceiling mounted fan. I grew up with a gable mounted one and we never heard it running.


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> You still need roof venting and will that company be around in a few years when spare parts are needed..


Why wouldn't the company be around? And you are not required to have an attic fan for this but obviously would help.

Most homes have ridge vents in the roof and soffit venting with gable end vent grills. Plenty of places for heat to escape. Older homes sometimes have sealed soffits in that case i would install an attic fan with the whole house fan.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Outside shutter is aluminum is just needs a good cleaning.. still in perfect working condition..


It's also time to clean some of the mildew off your siding.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> Why wouldn't the company be around? And you are not required to have an attic fan for this but obviously would help.
> 
> Most homes have ridge vents in the roof and soffit venting with gable end vent grills. Plenty of places for heat to escape. Older homes sometimes have sealed soffits in that case i would install an attic fan with the whole house fan.


In the past month I have had Nutone fans go bad.. no more replacement motors available since Broan bought them out and redesigned the QT line..

Atlite lighting fixtures was bought out by Cooper lighting and the 148 & 149 line was cut..

I have been installing that line for the last (30) years.. no replacement parts..

So I have no faith in a manufacture being still in business a few years down the line..

Dayton is still going strong and all their fan parts are universal with other manufactures..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It's also time to clean some of the mildew off your siding.


I am ripping all the T&G off and going vinyl siding instead..royal PIA on maintenance and the raccoons and squirrels are trying my patience..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> In the past month I have had Nutone fans go bad.. no more replacement motors available since Broan bought them out and redesigned the QT line..


Did you contact Nutone directly? They have many parts available for all of their product lines. I find it hard to believe those motors are not available anymore.


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> In the past month I have had Nutone fans go bad.. no more replacement motors available since Broan bought them out and redesigned the QT line..
> 
> Atlite lighting fixtures was bought out by Cooper lighting and the 148 & 149 line was cut..
> 
> ...




You worry about the strangest things 

Plus the fan you showed looks like the commercial ones I wire in hotels in the laundry rooms. Not sure many homeowners want a big beastly fan like that on the end of the house. Doesn't look very appealing looks like a warehouse fan.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Did you contact Nutone directly? They have many parts available for all of their product lines. I find it hard to believe those motors are not available anymore.


I asked my supply house.. but I will ask Nutone just to be sure..:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I asked my supply house.. but I will ask Nutone just to be sure..:thumbsup:


The QT line was extremely popular. I guarantee you can still get motors for those.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> You worry about the strangest things
> 
> Plus the fan you showed looks like the commercial ones I wire in hotels in the laundry rooms. Not sure many homeowners want a big beastly fan like that on the end of the house. Doesn't look very appealing looks like a warehouse fan.


I don't worry.. just plan a head and the customers who have these fan are more than happy with the performance..

You don't "see" the fan.. only feel the cool breeze coming in through every door and window of the house..

People don't mind spending the money for this type installation..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I am ripping all the T&G off and going vinyl siding instead..royal PIA on maintenance and the raccoons and squirrels are trying my patience..


Looks like your trees are too close to your house. That will help with the squirrel problem.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The QT line was extremely popular. I guarantee you can still get motors for those.



I will check it out.. I have changed (4) of them in the last few months..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Looks like your trees are too close to your house. That will help with the squirrel problem.


I have all kinds of claw makes on the corners of the siding from the raccoons..
it looks like I have a black bear running a muck..


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## gnxtc2 (Feb 21, 2011)

I have one in my shop. If I don't open a window, it sucks in the garage door. The fan creates a huge draft.

Some houses that have the louvers in the hallway open with the fan's suction.










Billy T.
[email protected]


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gnxtc2 said:


> I have one in my shop. If I don't open a window, it sucks in the garage door. The fan creates a huge draft.
> 
> Some houses that have the louvers in the hallway open with the fan's suction.
> 
> ...


I have no doubt those fans will suck the wig off Trumps head but the outside frame and louvers look to industrial to me to put on a nice home.

Just my opinion though. On that note I'm out it's MD weekend time to relax and have fun:thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

gnxtc2 said:


>


I bet we all wish all attics were this well lit. :laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I grew up with a whole house fan in the hallway and big louvers on the outside. Worked great, I personally don't mind the noise, but the shutters outside are horrible looking.

B4T, WHY _motorized_ louvers???


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> B4T, WHY _motorized_ louvers???


More air flow since the louvers are held open and the louvers close tighter when de-energized..

I have had problems where I used a spring loaded louver and the wind would force it open..

Also the retaining springs lose their tension being exposed to the weather..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> I asked my supply house.. but I will ask Nutone just to be sure..:thumbsup:


Here is a good place to get all the fan parts you need...:thumbup:


http://www.centralfan.com/


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If I went thru all the trouble to install a louver I think I would just install a permanently open gable end vent or is that not done up North.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If I went thru all the trouble to install a louver I think I would just install a permanently open gable end vent or is that not done up North.


Bad idea.. driving rain even got through my closed shutter during a winter storm..

The fan would rust out in no time... mine faces north and we get some really bad storms blowing in from that direction..


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

We have screened opened louvers all over the south. I imagine an occasional bit of rain may get in but that is how the attics breathe. You wouldn't have to mount the fan against the outside wall.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

B4T said:


> Bad idea.. driving rain even got through my closed shutter during a winter storm..
> 
> The fan would rust out in no time... mine faces north and we get some really bad storms blowing in from that direction..


Most of the older buildings I work in that had gable fans were installed with a box frame around it. This kept the fan about a foot off the wall and the box was slightly pitched so any water rolled back outside. 
They had drive open, spring closed louvers ether electric or pneumatic operated with an end switch.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> We have screened opened louvers all over the south. I imagine an occasional bit of rain may get in but that is how the attics breathe. You wouldn't have to mount the fan against the outside wall.


I have never seen that setup around here.. if it would work.. I don't know..

Aluminum shutters last indefinitely.. I don't know about the screen your louvers have keeping the insects out..


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Here is a good place to get all the fan parts you need...:thumbup:
> 
> 
> http://www.centralfan.com/


In my experience, if they don't have it you aren't going to find it. :thumbup:


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> Dayton fans are still made heavy duty.. almost seems impossible during "cheap China" times.. I closed the sale yesterday for this fan job.. :thumbup:
> 
> Grainger is over priced.. but sometimes you got to bite the bullet..


Maybe you already know, but Dayton is Grainger, that is their in house brand.


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