# Discontinuing my cordless tool system



## jculber (Apr 22, 2008)

When I first became a sparky a couple of years ago, I bought the Black and Decker Firestorm 18v Cordless tool set (drill, sawzall, circular saw, etc.) for use at work. I bought this set because I didn't have the money to really buy anything else. Two years later they are all running still and have not had a problem with any of the tools.

Today, unfortunately, I found out that Black and Decker is discontinuing this tool line and ceasing all manufacturing of the tools, batteries, chargers, etc. 

So now I am in the market for some new ones. I mean why keep a dying product anyway. Now I know a lot of people use DeWalt. For me though, the cost isn't justified by the product. It is still a tool that has probably the same problems as any other. What other brands do you use and what do you recommend as far as what cordless power tools I should have?

Thanks.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I will disagree and say Dewalt is worth the money. Rigid and Milwaukee are next in line. Don't waste your money on Ryobi!


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

I have had good results with all of the DeWalt tools from the XRP series, except the XRP hammerdrill, the clutch went out a couple of times and have heard that it is a common problem. So I just stick to the Bosch Hammerdrill when I need it. 

Love the XRP recip. saw, it's been dropped, beaten, abused and still runs as good as new.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I've had DeWalt 24v stuff since they first came out (7-8 years ago?). Haven't had much trouble. Nice addition is the 120v adapter to keep from tearing batteries up when AC is available.


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## wptski (Jun 30, 2008)

Don't know who absorbed who but DeWalt/Black&Decker are one in the same now.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

From what I hear Hilti is at the top of the list. They are very good quality. But whatever you do *STAY AWAY FROM HARBOUR FREIGHT!!!*


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

wptski said:


> Don't know who absorbed who but DeWalt/Black&Decker are one in the same now.


When the Black & Decker tool company started making weekender grade tools and especially when they started making toaster ovens and other consumer appliances their traditional line of B&D Industrial Tools began to get an udeserved bad rap by ill-informed people.

Their solution? Buy the remains of the DeWalt company and use that name to relabel their commercial and industrial duty tools. Simple.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm a Bosch man. (generally speaking)


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## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

Black and Decker bought out DeWalt back in the very early 60's, FWIW.

Some B&D do, or at least did, use the same batteries and chargers as DeWalt, you might check.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The cells in the vast majority of cordless tools are as common as belly buttons. Any tool repair shop worth it's salt should be able to rebuild a dead or dying battery pack.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

itsunclebill said:


> Black and Decker bought out DeWalt back in the very early 60's, FWIW.
> 
> Some B&D do, or at least did, use the same batteries and chargers as DeWalt, you might check.


in the old 18v firestorm or quantum? you could use the dewalt batteries in the b&d but you couldnt use the b&d in dewalt. they had a little tit that kept them from going in the dewalt. i guess so you couldnt use batteries that were half the price.

ive had batteries rebuilt but around here theres nowhere that does it so by the time you pay freight its about as cheap to buy new.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> When I first became a sparky a couple of years ago, I bought the Black and Decker Firestorm 18v C


Your employer should buying you ANY and ALL power tools.


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## proFeign (Dec 31, 2008)

480sparky said:


> The cells in the vast majority of cordless tools are as common as belly buttons. Any tool repair shop worth it's salt should be able to rebuild a dead or dying battery pack.


That's true but usually it's $40 to rebuild an 18V XRP NiCad and new ones are $100/pair.

I have the 18V XRPs because they have like 30+ tools that use them and this is a big selling point. Next buy will probably be to get the 18V Nano Li-Ion packs with a new tool. I do field work and in-house work (i'm an engineer at a small place where i have to build a lot of stuff personally and do field installs and fab) so I can't really justify buying Hilti (oh but I will try). and it's nice to have the same batteries for all the cordless drills/impact drivers/recip saws/circ saws/angle grinders in the whole building.

However they are very heavy. I will stay with DeWalt just for commonality and overall excellent value and durability and power for the price. $299 for the XRP hammerdrill and impact driver and two batteries and a charger where a Hilti is $400 for a 15V drill alone. No argument that the Hilti is a better tool but it's over twice as much money for the same capabilities.

I did augment my set with a Bosch pocket driver and use this thing for 99% of non-drilling tasks, light with plenty of power and with hex shank countersink bits it can save a lot of time. It runs really slow (n0=450 rpm) but it really is pocketable and they claim it will drive 300 3" deck screws on a charge. Here are some pics with a small milwaukee right angle attachment with an unshortened countersink attachment. Try deburring like this with a hammerdrill!



















I wish I had some Hilti stuff but these three all fit in the toolbag at once with spare batteries and except for minor gripes they fit the bill well. The impact driver is a must for wood screws and lags and at 2400 rpm it's a great thing to use for those rotozip-style drill/saw sidecutting bits. Not an easy way to enlarge a hole but in a pinch it will do. I use the "baby drill" a lot. Our shop also has the Ridgid version of of the little bosch (the Ridgid has a chuck instead of a 1/4 hex socket, is 12V and runs at n0=600 rpm) and I'd probably get the Ridgid again since the chuck is a nice touch but it adds weight and bulk. Mostly I'd like a little more speed. Having a feather-touch chuck setting is really nice though. On clutch setting "1" it won't even twist off 2-56 machine screws. It's nice to be able to run everything down quickly with no fear of stripping things out and then make a pass by hand on assembly jobs.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

proFeign said:


> That's true but usually it's $40 to rebuild an 18V XRP NiCad and new ones are $100/pair.....


So compare 'forty clams for a rebuild' to 'unable to buy a new one'.


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## proFeign (Dec 31, 2008)

480sparky said:


> So compare 'forty clams for a rebuild' to 'unable to buy a new one'.


point taken, but then you're still using black & decker cordless tools. i see "failing battery" as a sign that it's time to upgrade the whole set.


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## proFeign (Dec 31, 2008)

A machinist I once knew had what I consider to be the best philosophy/motto about buying tools:

High price only hurts once.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

proFeign said:


> Our shop also has the Ridgid version of of the little bosch (the Ridgid has a chuck instead of a 1/4 hex socket, is 12V and runs at n0=600 rpm) and I'd probably get the Ridgid again since the chuck is a nice touch but it adds weight and bulk. Mostly I'd like a little more speed.


Like this baby?










220 Lbs of Torque

2 Speeds (1st-0-400rpm/2nd-1-1,000rpm)


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## proFeign (Dec 31, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Like this baby?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


damn it! just what i needed; more tools to lust after. I don't expect that I'll need to retire my little bosch for another 4-5 years though.

Bosch must listen to customer feedback! Except for what must be the extra bulk of the gearbox I would think that's awesome. Really for this little guy the big benefit it has is its incredibly shallow depth so it'll fit places even the little impact driver won't. They look like they got this one pretty good! The 1/4" hex collet is nice for a lot of things and really quick to change driver bits etc but if it was just going to be one tool i would want a real chuck.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

proFeign said:


> point taken, but then you're still using black & decker cordless tools. i see "failing battery" as a sign that it's time to upgrade the whole set.


Kinda like driving a Pinto? :yes:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

proFeign said:


> damn it! just what i needed; more tools to lust after. I don't expect that I'll need to retire my little bosch for another 4-5 years though.
> 
> Bosch must listen to customer feedback! Except for what must be the extra bulk of the gearbox I would think that's awesome. Really for this little guy the big benefit it has is its incredibly shallow depth so it'll fit places even the little impact driver won't. They look like they got this one pretty good! The 1/4" hex collet is nice for a lot of things and really quick to change driver bits etc but if it was just going to be one tool i would want a real chuck.


I feel ya.

I have the little quick change mini-drill too, but I'm going to retire it to the "reserve" bag I have and tote this one along.

For jobs like screwing in metal boxes to those thin metal studs, my hammer drill is over kill, and the mini bosch struggles with the thicker outside studs.

I love Bosch. :notworthy:


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

I had bought one of those 18V B&D's as well. I use it like your "baby" drills. You hold this B&D in your hand and then pick up a Milwaukee. The B&D feels weightless.

I have a 1/2" B&D corded hammer drill in one of my boxes that will sprain your wrist when you're not expecting it.


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

4 piece 18v xrp dewalt kit with the impact driver, does everything I need. If I need more power, grab a corded tool.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> Like this baby?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

"inch pounds", it's a huge difference.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

After reading all these posts, I will agree with a couple of points:

First off DeWalt is the most commonly seen tools on sites, still doesn't come close to making them the best overall.

Secondly, if you have limited storage space, having a common battery is very important.

I try and match the best tool for the job at hand, like in weaponry. You don't go after big game with a .22, you don't plan on a day of 2 1/8" holes in conrete with a battery tool. And just to set the record straight, Hilti tools are no heavier in weight than any other brands, just much more heavy duty.

I prefer Milwaukee 18v tools, for the most part. Hilti hammers are by far in a league of their own. I haven't used much more than the Bosch 10v impactor daily use driving fasteners since they have been on my truck.


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## proFeign (Dec 31, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> "inch pounds", it's a huge difference.


...but that's pretty good for that little freaking pocket tool. if you can borrow one from a friend for a couple days you'll find yourself using the big stuff way less than you would have imagined.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

proFeign said:


> ...but that's pretty good for that little freaking pocket tool. if you can borrow one from a friend for a couple days you'll find yourself using the big stuff way less than you would have imagined.


 
A standard 18v drill will give you 500 in lbs, the 10.8v impactor I use daily is 800 in lbs.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

76nemo said:


> I had bought one of those 18V B&D's as well. I use it like your "baby" drills. You hold this B&D in your hand and then pick up a Milwaukee. The B&D feels weightless.
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I bought a Milwaukee M18 hammer drill/driver around 12/01/08. It delivers 650 in lbs of torque and 0-450 rpm. It out-performs my Milwaukee 18V nicad Loc-Tor easily in the torque and battery life catagories. I also got a M12 impactor last fall. It delivers 850 in lbs of torque and 0-2000 rpm. I have a Bosch 10.8 impactor and like it but the M12 turns higher rmp and that makes shooting tek screws in purlans easier.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> 76nemo said:
> 
> 
> > I had bought one of those 18V B&D's as well. I use it like your "baby" drills. You hold this B&D in your hand and then pick up a Milwaukee. The B&D feels weightless.
> ...


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

Its my personal experience that makes me stay away from Dewalt. Now all I use is either Milwaukee or Bosch. I had a Dewalt 18v XRP cordless hammerdrill fall about 12ft to a dirt floor and the case split, trigger cracked and came off the drill. Now my Milwaukee 18v fell about 18ft out of a roof hatch to a concrete floor, bounced twice and the battery pack flew off into the other room. I climbed down the ladder thinking oh . Picked up the drill got the battery pack, snapped it in and the drill worked perfect. Ive been using this same Milwaukee drill now for over a year after that happened.


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## TerryBW (Aug 4, 2021)

jculber said:


> When I first became a sparky a couple of years ago, I bought the Black and Decker Firestorm 18v Cordless tool set (drill, sawzall, circular saw, etc.) for use at work. I bought this set because I didn't have the money to really buy anything else. Two years later they are all running still and have not had a problem with any of the tools.
> 
> Today, unfortunately, I found out that Black and Decker is discontinuing this tool line and ceasing all manufacturing of the tools, batteries, chargers, etc.
> 
> ...


DeWalt is made by Black and Decker


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

TerryBW said:


> DeWalt is made by Black and Decker


Zombie thread


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