# mechanical and electrical continuity



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If you mean a circuit with just one ungrounded and one grounded, no.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Mechanical*



myenergy said:


> Hey, how's everybody out there? just a quick question. I know that 300.13 requires electrical continuity of the grounded conductor in a multiwire branch circuit. but is it required in individual branch circuits.


You may know what you are asking...but I don't think you are saying it correctly.


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## myenergy (Jan 25, 2010)

Let me clairify I realize it is good practice to pigtial the neutral. but is it reuired? can one use the device to maintain continuity?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Yes on circuits that do not share the same neutral you would. It would be a waste of labor hours to pigtail single circuits in boxes.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Mechanical and electrical continuity*



myenergy said:


> Let me clairify I realize it is good practice to pigtial the neutral. but is it reuired? can one use the device to maintain continuity?


 Your original post asked about electrical continuity of the GROUNDED conductor. You would have to have continuity if things were to work correctly. If you are wondering about the electrical and mechanical continuity of the mechanical ground, that is a different story...but the answer is still the same. Yes.


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## myenergy (Jan 25, 2010)

the reason I ask. is because I recently had another contractor read me the riot act because I told a journeyman the it was not required to pigtail the neutral on an individual branch circuit with several devices on it. 

thanks for you input enjoy your day


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

myenergy said:


> the reason I ask. is because I recently had another contractor read me the riot act because I told a journeyman the it was not required to pigtail the neutral on an individual branch circuit with several devices on it.
> 
> thanks for you input enjoy your day


Okay, did someone answer your question correctly?


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## myenergy (Jan 25, 2010)

all set thanks again.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

myenergy said:


> the reason I ask. is because I recently had another contractor read me the riot act because I told a journeyman the it was not required to pigtail the neutral on an individual branch circuit with several devices on it.
> 
> thanks for you input enjoy your day


 If hes writing your check He' right!:laughing::jester::laughing:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Yes on circuits that do not share the same neutral you would. It would be a waste of labor hours to pigtail single circuits in boxes.


The cost of labor to pigtail the wires probably just about balances the labor required to put four wires on the device. At any rate, it doesn't take that much to do, and you are ensured a superior circuit when you pigtail.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> The cost of labor to pigtail the wires probably just about balances the labor required to put four wires on the device. At any rate, it doesn't take that much to do, and you are ensured a superior circuit when you pigtail.


I dont agree. You have to pigtail then put the two wires on the device. I have never saw a recep that was installed properly not have a good connection. If the issue is the pigtail being superior to the screws on the recp then consider the pigtalled conductors are still dependent on the screws on the recep. I see no reason to pigtail and no reduction of QUALITY.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> . If the issue is the pigtail being superior to the screws on the recp then consider the pigtalled conductors are still dependent on the screws on the recep.


 Not for the downstream receptacles!:whistling2:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*mechanical and electrical continuity*



codeone said:


> Not for the downstream receptacles!:whistling2:


That is the only reason I've been given for using pigtails, but when I've worked on a receptacle I have never left it before it was completed.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> I dont agree. You have to pigtail then put the two wires on the device. I have never saw a recep that was installed properly not have a good connection. If the issue is the pigtail being superior to the screws on the recp then consider the pigtalled conductors are still dependent on the screws on the recep. I see no reason to pigtail and no reduction of QUALITY.


When I pigtail, I can remove any receptacle in the circuit without disrupting power to anything else on the circuit.


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

It may take a minute more and cost a few wirenuts but pigtailing is the best way.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*continuity*



crazymurph said:


> It may take a minute more and cost a few wirenuts but pigtailing is the best way.


 Isn't that the easiest way to get a rough in inspection done...most of the work is over.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Isn't that the easiest way to get a rough in inspection done...most of the work is over.


That's my view of a rough-in........ get as much work done as possible from the git-go. Some people just want to do enough so the insulators and rockers can start. Then they spend forever and a day trimming out.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Continuity*



480sparky said:


> that's my view of a rough-in........ Get as much work done as possible from the git-go. Some people just want to do enough so the insulators and rockers can start. Then they spend forever and a day trimming out.


 yep.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> When I pigtail, I can remove any receptacle in the circuit without disrupting power to anything else on the circuit.


But I'm not talking about that. What I'm saying is the neutral wire under a screw is not an inferior method. Yes the other outlets would continue to work if pigtailed and its necessary on a mwbc however the pigtailled neutral is still connected to the device with a SCREW:thumbsup:
Is it really a better install? Maybe. With copper wire and PROPER connection to device I havent seen any come loose.I say if its necessary or 3 wires in the box then sure. I was taught to do quality work and remember someone somewhere will see it and say either someone did good work or hacked it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> But I'm not talking about that. What I'm saying is the neutral wire under a screw is not an inferior method. Yes the other outlets would continue to work if pigtailed and its necessary on a mwbc however the pigtailled neutral is still connected to the device with a SCREW:thumbsup:
> Is it really a better install? Maybe. With copper wire and PROPER connection to device I havent seen any come loose.I say if its necessary or 3 wires in the box then sure. I was taught to do quality work and remember someone somewhere will see it and say either someone did good work or hacked it.


 
By pigtailing, the only time you will have a problem with a specific receptacle with a loose connection is when there's a heavy load on that receptacle _and that receptacle alone_.

If you don't pigtail, and use both terminals on a receptacle, then any load downstreams can cause a problem anywhere upstream there's a loose connection.

For instance, let's say there's 12 receptacles on a circuit. If they are all pigtailed, and I plug something into the 11th receptacle, the terminals - loose or not - on all the other receptacles have no bearing on whether they can create a problem.

But if I don't pigtail, and I have a poor termination in any upstream receptacle, then the heavy load on receptacle #11 will cause a problem.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Mech. And elec.*

Based on the condition you have presented, the Heavy, but possibly legal ,load on the eleventh receptacle could cause an arcing condition at the first receptacle. That arcing condition could cause overheating and with the right conditions...curtains, wallpaper overlay, etc, a fire could start. This alone makes me a believer of pigtailing whether the code says it's ok or not. 480volt sparky...I agree with you....You did say that , didn't you?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> By pigtailing, the only time you will have a problem with a specific receptacle with a loose connection is when there's a heavy load on that receptacle _and that receptacle alone_.
> 
> If you don't pigtail, and use both terminals on a receptacle, then any load downstreams can cause a problem anywhere upstream there's a loose connection.
> 
> ...


 
But if I dont pigtail them I can usally plug in my tester and wiggle it back and forth lights usally blink or the tester does and my problem is right there. A customer is more likely to call a licensed electrician if a bunch of outlets do not work than if its only one. Either way passes an inspection and I feel is just as good a job.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> But if I dont pigtail them I can usally plug in my tester and wiggle it back and forth lights usally blink or the tester does and my problem is right there. A customer is more likely to call a licensed electrician if a bunch of outlets do not work than if its only one. Either way passes an inspection and I feel is just as good a job.


Either way is legal, however, it is simply my personal opinion that a circuit that does not depend on the device is inherently a better circuit.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> Either way is legal, however, it is simply my personal opinion that a circuit that does not depend on the device is inherently a better circuit.


I wont argue that point but I will say if done properly it will stay connected and give years of trouble free service. If done improper even a pigtail circuit could have a bad connection. 

Strange I wont backstab and thats legal also. Im just saying on a resi job I think its safe and lasts to each his own.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> But if I dont pigtail them I can usally plug in my tester and wiggle it back and forth lights usally blink or the tester does and my problem is right there. .........


You install receps _that _loose?











jwjrw said:


> .......... A customer is more likely to call a licensed electrician if a bunch of outlets do not work than if its only one............


Which has absolutely nothing to do with proper installation.



jwjrw said:


> ........... Either way passes an inspection and I feel is just as good a job.


You say toe-may-toe, I say tuh-mah-toe. You throw yours at poor actors, I make sandwiches out of mine.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> You install receps _that _loose?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mr Sparky. From past exp if I have a room with some receps not working I wiggle my tester and if they are not pigtailed its usally easy to find the one that is the problem.


As far as proper installation I believe If god didnt want us to connect the 4 wires to the 4 screws he would of made an exception :thumbup: in the code.

Im not saying I'm right just that pigtailing dosent make it a better job. I see pros and cons either way.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> Mr Sparky. From past exp if I have a room with some receps not working I wiggle my tester and if they are not pigtailed its usally easy to find the one that is the problem. ............


You first have to determine if they're pigtailed or not. Even if they are pigtailed, a poor pigtail could be the culprit. And if I can wiggle a recep enough to cause a poor pigtail to manifest itself, then the receps are way too loose.



jwjrw said:


> ...........As far as proper installation I believe If god didnt want us to connect the 4 wires to the 4 screws he would of made an exception in the code..........


So what do you do with 6 wires?:whistling2:. :laughing:



jwjrw said:


> ...........Im not saying I'm right just that pigtailing dosent make it a better job. I see pros and cons either way.


I'm not saying pigtail is the only way to go (other than with MWBCs). I'm just been saying I'm in the pigtail camp. Been doing it that way for years, and have never had any problems. Again.... You say toe-may-toe, I say tuh-mah-toe. You throw yours at poor actors, I make sandwiches out of mine.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> You first have to determine if they're pigtailed or not. Even if they are pigtailed, a poor pigtail could be the culprit. And if I can wiggle a recep enough to cause a poor pigtail to manifest itself, then the receps are way too loose.
> 
> I
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you. Seems like no one here pigtailed and I learned that way. Have never had a problem and neither have you. As long as you do quality work dosent matter how you do it it passes either way.


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