# Where in the NEC does it say a GFCI is need in a Commerical Building?



## DoOver (Mar 15, 2012)

Hi I'm new here. 
I have a customer who has a commercial wood working shop. He has 8 110 volt 20 amp GFCI receptacles mounting in the ceiling, 16' above the floor. These receptacles are for small hand held tools. He is having a big problem with nuisance tripping of the GFCI. He is using a nail in a long stick to reset the GFCI.
My question is, are the GFCI needed? If so where in the NEC is it stated?
Thanks,
Brian


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

DoOver said:


> Hi I'm new here.
> I have a customer who has a commercial wood working shop. He has 8 110 volt 20 amp GFCI receptacles mounting in the ceiling, 16' above the floor. These receptacles are for small hand held tools. He is having a big problem with nuisance tripping of the GFCI. He is using a nail in a long stick to reset the GFCI.
> My question is, are the GFCI needed? If so where in the NEC is it stated?
> Thanks,
> Brian


210.8(B)


*210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.* All 125-volt, singlephase,
15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations
specified in 210.8(B)(1) through (8) shall have
ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Kitchens
(3) Rooftops
(4) Outdoors
Exception No. 1 to (3) and (4): Receptacles that are not
readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit
dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and
vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be installed
in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.
Exception No. 2 to (4): In industrial establishments only,
where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure
that only qualified personnel are involved, an assured
equipment grounding conductor program as specified in
590.6(B)(2) shall be permitted for only those receptacle
outlets used to supply equipment that would create a
greater hazard if power is interrupted or having a design
that is not compatible with GFCI protection.
(5) Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m
(6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink.
Exception No. 1 to (5): In industrial laboratories, receptacles
used to supply equipment where removal of power
would introduce a greater hazard shall be permitted to be
installed without GFCI protection.
Exception No. 2 to (5): For receptacles located in patient
bed locations of general care or critical care areas of
health care facilities other than those covered under
210.8(B)(1), GFCI protection shall not be required.
(6) Indoor wet locations
(7) Locker rooms with associated showering facilities
(8) Garages, service bays, and similar areas where electrical
diagnostic equipment, electrical hand tools, or portable
lighting equipment are to be used.



Welcome to the forum Enjoy the ride......:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

DoOver said:


> Hi I'm new here.
> I have a customer who has a commercial wood working shop. He has 8 110 volt 20 amp GFCI receptacles mounting in the ceiling, 16' above the floor. These receptacles are for small hand held tools. He is having a big problem with nuisance tripping of the GFCI. He is using a nail in a long stick to reset the GFCI.
> My question is, are the GFCI needed? If so where in the NEC is it stated?
> Thanks,
> Brian


Sounds like maybe the former use was a "garage"? Receptacles in the ceiling of a woodworking shop doesn't seem to be one of the required GFCI protected locations. 

That said, you should try to sell him on getting his equipment checked by you or someone else for ground faults. Sounds like the "nuisance tripping" might really be "reason tripping". The reason just seems to be unknown at this time.


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## J.Tate (Mar 25, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> 210.8(B)
> 
> 
> *210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.* All 125-volt, singlephase,
> ...


Do you have an e-book format of the NEC?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

This reminds me of an old joke. One of my favorites. 

What do you call a dictionary on the ceiling?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

J.Tate said:


> Do you have an e-book format of the NEC?


Many of us do, but if you're getting ready to ask for a pirated copy, move on...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

J.Tate said:


> Do you have an e-book format of the NEC?


It is the NEC PDF....http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?pid=7011SB&icid=B484


BTW if you are in school the cost can be deducted from your income taxes under school books.

if you are in business it is a business expense also tax deductible. :thumbsup:


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## DoOver (Mar 15, 2012)

*Thank you guys for the warm welcome and quick answer*

Holy cow! I can't believe how fast you guys got back to me!
Thanks. 
No, this is a quanset hut style building, built new for this purpose. 
I think the nuisance tripping is from the way they hook it up. They shared the neutral and staggered the two 20 amp opposite phase circuit conductors between them the GFCI receptacles.
I am just going to take out the GFCI and install a 20 duplex.
Thanks again,:thumbsup:
Brian


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

While the NEC does not require GFCI protection for these outlets, it is likely that OSHA or other safety rules will require that the electric hand tools being used by the workers have GFCI protection.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

DoOver said:


> Holy cow! I can't believe how fast you guys got back to me!
> Thanks.
> No, this is a quanset hut style building, built new for this purpose.
> I think the nuisance tripping is from the way they hook it up. They shared the neutral and staggered the two 20 amp opposite phase circuit conductors between them the GFCI receptacles.
> ...


If they are older GFCI receptacles i think it would be better to replace them with new ones.

If it is a 3 phase system there is nothing wrong with sharing neutrals and would have nothing to do with the GFCI receptacles tripping .


It could just be that the receptacles are old or the tools they are using have issues.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

DoOver said:


> Holy cow! I can't believe how fast you guys got back to me!
> Thanks.
> No, this is a quanset hut style building, built new for this purpose.
> I think the nuisance tripping is from the way they hook it up. They shared the neutral and staggered the two 20 amp opposite phase circuit conductors between them the GFCI receptacles.
> ...


Replace the 2 breakers with a 2-pole GFCI breaker. Then change all the receptacles to regular decora receptacles. (That way you don't need new RS covers)


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Investigate the possibility of using gfci breakers rather than point of use


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## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

You could change from gfci in ceiling and buy the gfci cords that plug on to extension cords. Then if they trip it is right beside the power tool and easy to reset.


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Regarding the building and location, is this shop by any chance dirt-floored and/or unheated? Is the building insulated? All that would increase humidity and condensation in the building significantly, and GFCI receps not intended for wet location use tend to fail faster in that condition. The ultra fine dust in many woodworking shops also tends to play havoc. I second (third?) the suggestion to go with GFCI breakers, and urge the shop to keep the panel door shut as much as possible.


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## DoOver (Mar 15, 2012)

What a pleasure to hear from ELECTRICIANS!. I work by myself and have no one to bounce ideas off of. When I use the vernacular or jargon of the trade, I am generally talking to myself.
There are all excellent questions and course of action for repairs. 
The shop now uses drop cords with local GFCI protection. 
There is a poured concrete floor but the location is very dusty.
Brian


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

What about just changing them to twist loks and a gfi breaker.


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## di11igaf (Jan 1, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> If they are older GFCI receptacles i think it would be better to replace them with new ones.
> 
> If it is a 3 phase system there is nothing wrong with sharing neutrals and would have nothing to do with the GFCI receptacles tripping .
> 
> ...


It doesn't have to be 3 phase, if the the GFCI's on a mwbc on a single phase service are wired RIGHT, it shouldn't matter and it will work with single or three phase service?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

di11igaf said:


> It doesn't have to be 3 phase, if the the GFCI's on a mwbc on a single phase service are wired RIGHT, it shouldn't matter and it will work with single or three phase service?


That's right.

I think he just has worn out GFCI Receptacle's


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## Georgiafan16 (Feb 24, 2021)

when replacing a commercial rooftop packaged unit that could be 20 years old, when replacing, are we required to provide a GFCI outlet if there isnt one? when permitting the job, some counties call it out and some don't bother. just want to know for future projects.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

The only opinion that matters is that of the inspector. Sounds like a low cost bit of assurance to just put it in, with a new in-use cover. And doing so could also protect you from liability. You don't want to have the debate in front of a jury. If you put it in, you were as diligent as you could be.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Did you really have to respond to a 9 year old thread to ask that question?


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

I don't even know if that member is an electrician or not...

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