# Laws of live work in B.C.?



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Felandro said:


> I was wondering what the laws are regarding live work in B.C. I looked at worksafebc but didn't quite understand the regulation. It seems to be just guidelines but seems to say everything at 250v and below is okay to work on, is this correct because it seems there is no actual laws like in Ontario where it blatantly says it is illegal.


Working live should be illegal everywhere.... read this... http://www.electriciantalk.com/f12/teen-helper-electrocuted-attic-88305/


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## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

Felandro said:


> I was wondering what the laws are regarding live work in B.C. I looked at worksafebc but didn't quite understand the regulation. It seems to be just guidelines but seems to say everything at 250v and below is okay to work on, is this correct because it seems there is no actual laws like in Ontario where it blatantly says it is illegal.


CEC Rule *2-304* restricts working live, *" except where complete disconnection of the equipment is not feasible." * B.C. may have amendments to that rule.

Members from B.C. would certainly know for sure. :thumbsup:

Hope that helps. 

Borgi


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Z462. It isn't law but it's a consensus standard. It means that lack of knowledge of Z462 is not an excuse in a court of law, so it may as well be considered the law.


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

Yes z462.

Over 50 volts if you are not De - energizing then you follow the guidelines for limited and restricted approach . 

disconnection is never feasible when any troubleshooting whose scope extends beyond doing a continuity check so the CEC rule is a bit pointless for many industries. 

If I couldn't work live I basically couldn't do any work. I'm a controls guy and I can't test anything if the power ain't on. 

I like 462 becuase it's not nannying everyone to death. Basically if it's live pay attention and don't be a dumbass.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Whats considered working live, having the covers off a panel? How do you trouble shoot if you cant work live?


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

chewy said:


> Whats considered working live, having the covers off a panel? How do you trouble shoot if you cant work live?


My short definition of live work is installing/removing components/conductors. Troubleshooting is what you do to determine what work needs to be done.


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## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

Felandro said:


> I was wondering what the laws are regarding live work in B.C. I looked at *worksafebc but didn't quite understand the regulation.* It seems to be just guidelines but seems to say everything at 250v and below is okay to work on, is this correct because it seems there is no actual laws like in Ontario where it blatantly says it is illegal.


Are you talking about this site? ( let us know if the link doesn't work, please )

http://http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/OHSRegulation/GuidelinePart19.asp

It is lengthy, but that's government. 

Nobody can make you work live. It's your choice. :thumbsup:

Borgi


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

Trouble shooting is one condition of live work as well as if shutting the power off creates a greater risk than live work.
In BC this is in the Safety Standards act that makes the CE code law. that rule in section 2 is law and WorkSafe rules reinforce this under their regulations.
Work live and you can get a Worksafe fine and lose your contractors licence in 1 shot


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## Felandro (Mar 16, 2014)

When I say live I mean like installing lights live or splicing live, not troubleshooting just installing things live especially lighting.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Not permitted. And if it's 347 volt it could easily kill you.


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## Felandro (Mar 16, 2014)

99cents said:


> Not permitted. And if it's 347 volt it could easily kill you.


Not permitted as in illegal/ could be charged and can tell anyone asking to go **** themselves for asking? Or just not permitted under certain conditions, I keep seeing the "if not feasible to de-energize safety protocols will be followed." When is it considered not feasible to shut down a circuit or panel? I have seen a couple pages and documents stating it is actually illegal and you could be charged in Ontario but seen nothing similar for B.C.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Felandro said:


> When is it considered not feasible to shut down a circuit or panel?


Don't confuse the term "feasible" with "convenient".


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

Michigan Master said:


> Don't confuse the term "feasible" with "convenient".


Also don't confuse the term legal/illegal and code compliant, or even a workforce implied rule. in the US a law is passed by either the state or federal legislative branch and has a verifiable statute number attributed to it.


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

My last 2 employers (last 15 years) had an in house rule that if violated would lead to immediate termination without exception, and that is sticking any body part or tool into a live panel without PPE. With my last employer being a 100 billion dollar corporation.

So with that in mind breaking the plane within one inch of an energized panels opening required PPE, even resetting a VFD or attaching a computer to a PLC would apply. Most newer panels have external data ports and many 50+ years old ones even have 3 phase power indicators on the face.

PPE certainly makes troubleshooting 24 volt control circuit difficult when it is in the same box with line voltage, however we were allowed to permanently affix Plexiglas covering over the higher voltage areas so sanitation or line workers could LOTO a dead fronted breaker box inside the main enclosure.

I have honed my skills to be able to troubleshoot using nothing but the input/output table and blinky lights on a PLC, and with the aid a helper or operator can verify that 90% of problems are remote sensors or cut/shorted cables, all without breaking the plane.

I have been in this business for the better part of 40 years and did some stupid things in my time and thanks to the new rules have lived to retirement. I better knock wood or may just die of fibrillation the next time I test a 9 volt battery with my tongue.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Careful on troubleshooting being ok... 
One client I work with did an arc flash study and labelled everything. While labelling I noticed the "Load" side of a main breaker was at 55 cal., and labelled "No safe PPE available".. When I asked how can I troubleshoot safely and within their rules as the "Load" side of the main was the same as the "Line" side of every starter breaker? They had to redo the coordination study and ended up changing the arc flash labels and it is now around 12 cal...


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

We are governed by occupational health and safety, insurance companies, worker's comp, code rules, etc. If you are being asked to perform unsafe work then you will find an organization or law that will protect you if you search it out. If you are performing unsafe work yourself, or asking someone else to perform unsafe work, you only have to ask yourself what would happen if you ended up in front of a judge in a court of law  .


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