# Busted buss



## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

You check the main fuses too or just incoming voltage lugs?


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

matt1124 said:


> You check the main fuses too or just incoming voltage lugs?


Absolutely, rest of the panel works

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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Got me then, sell 'em some breakers!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Take it all apart.
Clean it up, replace burned screws.
Reinstall. Check again in 60 years.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Sometimes the screw in the center of the fuse socket gets loose. Try tightening those up. Otherwise, look for joints in the bus where pieces come together and see if those are loose.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> Sometimes the screw in the center of the fuse socket gets loose. Try tightening those up. Otherwise, look for joints in the bus where pieces come together and see if those are loose.


You are assuming he knows how to remove those fuse adapters.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Why even play with an antique that old?

Let it die a happy death.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Why even play with an antique that old?
> 
> Let it die a happy death.


Mech,
I surprised you dont have one or ten of those fuse adapter taker-outers in your tool collections. 

I used to look for them at flea markets but I haven't run across a fusebox call in quite a while so, I gave that up.
A pocket knife tip works just as quick to peel up that brass lip and to release the tension spring.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> Mech,
> I surprised you dont have one or ten of those fuse adapter taker-outers in your tool collections.
> 
> I used to look for them at flea markets but I haven't run across a fusebox call in quite a while so, I gave that up.
> A pocket knife tip works just as quick to peel up that brass lip and to release the tension spring.


I haven't even thought of repairing a panel that old since The Brady Bunch was a new tv show.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Southeast Power said:


> You are assuming he knows how to remove those fuse adapters.


Yes, I generally assume people posting here have some modicum of mechanical ability.:laughing:



MechanicalDVR said:


> Why even play with an antique that old?
> 
> Let it die a happy death.


Because sometimes this is what you have to fix. Besides that, aside from the occasional problem like we see here, those things are bulletproof. Breakers, especially the snap in type, won't chooch for nearly as long as a fuse panel. That's the cool thing about fuses: they still work even if they're 100 years old.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

RePhase277 said:


> Because sometimes this is what you have to fix. Besides that, aside from the occasional problem like we see here, those things are bulletproof. Breakers, especially the snap in type, won't chooch for nearly as long as a fuse panel. That's the cool thing about fuses: they still work even if they're 100 years old.


:thumbsup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

My father was an electrician. When they sold the circa 1959 house we grew up in about 1983 or so, it had a fuse panel in it.
I bought a circa 1954 house in about that time and it had a fuse panel in it too.
I sold it 10 years later in 1994 with the same fuse panel it was built with.
Reason was, in both cases, the fuse panels were perfectly fine, not overloaded, and not blowing fuses.


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> You are assuming he knows how to remove those fuse adapters.


I can remove anything. It's getting it to work afterwords I worry about

So the two holes highlighted in red give you access to get a tester lead to the bussbar. Obviously that's a 60 amp fuse. In this schematic you can see the lugs of the panel. In the top right you can see that with the center piece containing the 60 amp fuses that heats up that top lug labeled sub feed. 

Issue I'm having is the center lug where the line is supposed to come in is hot, but if you test that bussbar in the places where it connects to the center switch it's dead at the bottom. The other is hot at the bottom and heats up the top lug with the center fuses installed.

I'm wondering if just pigtail and heat up that top lug backfeeding the buss and bypassing the 60 amp fuse. Is that safe?









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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

You're trying to repair it without knowing why it failed. Take it apart and find the problem.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ArchStanton said:


> I can remove anything. It's getting it to work afterwords I worry about
> 
> So the two holes highlighted in red give you access to get a tester lead to the bussbar. Obviously that's a 60 amp fuse. In this schematic you can see the lugs of the panel. In the top right you can see that with the center piece containing the 60 amp fuses that heats up that top lug labeled sub feed.
> 
> ...


Try testing leg to leg. :thumbsup:


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> Try testing leg to leg. [emoji106]


Continuity between sockets?

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

ArchStanton said:


> Continuity between sockets?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Hate to be the one to say this, but it's statements like this that make me wonder about one's actual qualifications to work on the case at hand.

Testing power between both phases has little to do with continuity.


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Hate to be the one to say this, but it's statements like this that make me wonder about one's actual qualifications to work on the case at hand.
> 
> Testing power between both phases has little to do with continuity.


Inability to read forums does the same for me. In the OP it clearly says there is 240 in the panel.

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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

ArchStanton said:


> Inability to read forums does the same for me. In the OP it clearly says there is 240 in the panel.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Also the guy said to test between the legs? If he's suggesting what you think he is he means to test between the feeds.

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

ArchStanton said:


> Also the guy said to test between the legs? If he's suggesting what you think he is he means to test between the feeds.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Semantics, must be an east coast west coast terminology thing.

Why not just take it all apart and see what's what?


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## Stuff (Oct 14, 2012)

Why not take the cover panel off? No screwdriver available? Or don't want to mess up and have scratches in the paint?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Could have a new panel in by now...


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

Renter thought I was going to be quick. Landlord probably figured I would. Started sighing heavily and going on about homework. So she needed the lights that where working to work. So instead of tearing the panel apart more than popping the cover off and testing everything, I just bagged.

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

ArchStanton said:


> Renter thought I was going to be quick. Landlord probably figured I would. Started sighing heavily and going on about homework. So she needed the lights that where working to work. So instead of tearing the panel apart more than popping the cover off and testing everything, I just bagged.


Is it fixed or not?


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Is it fixed or not?


No, going to sell the landlord on a panel swap then go back on a Saturday and completely tear the panel apart see if it can be saved. If it can I'll double the charge for the time it took to fix the panel and it'll still be less than a panel swap. So landlord will be happy to overpay me.

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

ArchStanton said:


> No, going to sell the landlord on a panel swap then go back on a Saturday and completely tear the panel apart see if it can be saved. If it can I'll double the charge for the time it took to fix the panel and it'll still be less than a panel swap. So landlord will be happy to overpay me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


So you have a customer with a tenant that has no lights for 2 days so far and won't have them until 3 more days and you think he is going to be happy about that?

Do you do things like this often?


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> So you have a customer with a tenant that has no lights for 2 days so far and won't have them until 3 more days and you think he is going to be happy about that?
> 
> Do you do things like this often?


Tempted the wire for lights into the other fuse, so it's sharing a 15 amp fuse, told them to take it easy.

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## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

sounded like op was in over his head from the start?


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

heavysparky said:


> sounded like op was in over his head from the start?


Fixed it without having to change the panel. 500 for 2.5 total hours and a happy landlord because he saved 300 on the panel swap. 

Now let's find out how anyone but a color blind monkey could be over his head in a small residential sub panel swap. How's that commute home treating you buddy, burnt out already on Tuesday?

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## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

ArchStanton said:


> Fixed it without having to change the panel. 500 for 2.5 total hours and a happy landlord because he saved 300 on the panel swap.
> 
> Now let's find out how anyone but a color blind monkey could be over his head in a small residential sub panel swap. How's that commute home treating you buddy, burnt out already on Tuesday?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Hey it appeared like you were lost. the questions you asked made me think that.

sure other members were thinking the same. 

good its fixed 

enjoy the rest of your night


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Landlords can be funny. $500 for a working dog pile or $800 for brand new.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I'd have invested about 15 minutes in it an if it needed more than that it would have had a new panel.

You aren't talking enough time and material to add up to much.


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## ArchStanton (Aug 30, 2015)

matt1124 said:


> Landlords can be funny. $500 for a working dog pile or $800 for brand new.


I think I quoted him like 800-1200 depending on contingency. I knew it was ridged into the bottom, but didn't remember if it was ridged out the top. If that was the case it was going to be expensive. Plus the stud bay was modified to fit the old 10" panel and all I could get my hands on was standard size replacement.

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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Mech remember when I had to get a adapter out and I didn't have the tool? LOL


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

ArchStanton said:


> I think I quoted him like 800-1200 depending on contingency. I knew it was ridged into the bottom, but didn't remember if it was ridged out the top. If that was the case it was going to be expensive. Plus the stud bay was modified to fit the old 10" panel and all I could get my hands on was standard size replacement.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Lowes has an Eaton retro panel that’s 10” wide. Check ‘em out. 13” tall, 11.25 deep. Item # 89671, $57.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The OP is thinking like an electrician who just happens to own this joint.

Whereas he needs to stop that ... 

And start thinking like a BUSINESS MAN.

He should've LONG known what's on the market to replace such ancient gear.

I, myself, have an entire index prepared with all of the key dimensions -- the works -- so that I can merely look up what's available to slip in -- usually one-for-one -- it's amazing what cover trims can do to beautify an upgrade.

If this is your end of the market, you ought to have such a catalogue, too.

Then, instead of futzing around ET begging for help, you've long since ordered the gear right off of your cell phone -- having obtained the customer's assent.

It's a RARE customer that's thrilled with a bubble gum and fence wire solution to ancient gear -- stuff so old that the customer KNOWS it's days are virtually at an end.

BTW, ANY time you walk away from a fuse box, you should've sold spares -- and a carrier for them that can be mounted near the panel. For the ONE THING that makes fuses suck -- big time -- is no spares when they finally blow. Overloading receptacles can blow Edison fuses at ANY TIME. ( like X-mass )

The idea that you, or anyone, can have predictive abilities on this front is a joke.

Only the Lord above knows what the occupants will do in the future.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

One more thing: unless fuse rejectors are installed -- occupants are notorious for up-fusing -- until they burn the joint down. You can't ever assume that the fusing is correct -- unless they are 15A puppies. 

If the hardware store ever runs out of 15A ... you KNOW that the occupants are going to purchase 20A -- even 30A fuses. I can't recall the last time I saw 15A Edison fuses at the neighborhood hardware store. Even Big Box Hardware only stocks a pitiful number.

Ask the occupant just how long they want to be without power while they race around town trying to find this ( now rare ) fuse. ( rare in retail distribution -- they just don't 'turn over' like they used to. )


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The only fuses I'll replace are cartridge type. I have a few Edison in my van , but they have followed me for three or four vans lifecycle now. Never needed a one of em.


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## fdew (Mar 26, 2009)




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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If I have a customer who wants to keep that old piece of junk, I have the wrong customer.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> Mech remember when I had to get a adapter out and I didn't have the tool? LOL


Sure do and you got it done. :thumbsup:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Anyone would rather get the panel change, but if they paid @ArchStanton 's price, and it is a safe and compliant repair, I don't see any problem. I don't think it's the smartest way to spend their money but it's their money, I'll take it a variety of ways. 

The fuse panel is probably perfectly fine, the wiring is the part that's probably overdue for replacement, but if this fix meets your minimums and rates, and it leaves them better off than they were, that's a win.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

telsa said:


> One more thing: unless fuse rejectors are installed -- occupants are notorious for up-fusing -- until they burn the joint down. You can't ever assume that the fusing is correct -- unless they are 15A puppies.
> 
> If the hardware store ever runs out of 15A ... you KNOW that the occupants are going to purchase 20A -- even 30A fuses. I can't recall the last time I saw 15A Edison fuses at the neighborhood hardware store. Even Big Box Hardware only stocks a pitiful number.
> 
> Ask the occupant just how long they want to be without power while they race around town trying to find this ( now rare ) fuse. ( rare in retail distribution -- they just don't 'turn over' like they used to. )


One Thanksgiving before I arrived to my MIL's house, we got a call that there was no power in the kitchen. Turkey was in the oven and food was cooking on the stove.
Lucky for her, my FIL had squirreled away a box of fuses.
So The day was saved except for every single screw in fuse was 30 amp. Everyone of them.

I put in a new panel that weekend. What a ****ing mess.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> Mech,
> I surprised you dont have one or ten of those fuse adapter taker-outers in your tool collections.
> 
> I used to look for them at flea markets but I haven't run across a fusebox call in quite a while so, I gave that up.
> A pocket knife tip works just as quick to peel up that brass lip and to release the tension spring.


I have done this for quite a few years. Never ever seen that before.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> One Thanksgiving before I arrived to my MIL's house, we got a call that there was no power in the kitchen. Turkey was in the oven and food was cooking on the stove.
> Lucky for her, my FIL had squirreled away a box of fuses.
> So The day was saved except for every single screw in fuse was 30 amp. Everyone of them.
> 
> I put in a new panel that weekend. What a ****ing mess.


What a nice SIL you are.

I've done similar things for past inlaws.


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