# Crash course on cable TV, phone, etc.?



## Roger123

99cents said:


> Where can I learn about this chit? Is there an on-line course?


Don't laugh, YouTube! There is some good info there.


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## 99cents

Roger123 said:


> Don't laugh, YouTube! There is some good info there.


Good idea. I don't laugh at Youtube. I kept my old truck running off Youtube. I installed 600 square feet of hardwood, sanded and finished it off Youtube.

I should have thought of Youtube yesterday when I was playing beat the clock to get off a job and the customer's damn phone wasn't working  .


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## chicken steve

99cents said:


> I'm an electrician, not a cable dude. I did a panel swap this week and the customer lost the dial tone on his phone. I spent valuable time and embarrassment trouble shooting a phone modem before I got it going again. Where can I learn about this chit? Is there an on-line course?


Do you look good in plaid 99.......?:laughing:










~C:jester:S~


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## Rollie73

I don't know if you have anything like this one in Alberta or not 99....but this is the course that me and most of guys have taken. Lots of good info.:thumbsup:

http://www.nscc.ca/learning_programs/coned/Course.aspx?I=395


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## Black Dog

99cents said:


> I'm an electrician, not a cable dude. I did a panel swap this week and the customer lost the dial tone on his phone. I spent valuable time and embarrassment trouble shooting a phone modem before I got it going again. Where can I learn about this chit? Is there an on-line course?



Send a PM to The best, The man who invented the phone and cable....

*Ty Wrapp *
Senior Member

 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Shawnee KS
Posts: 1,707 
Rewards Points: 1,254 




:thumbup::thumbup:


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## 99cents

Rollie73 said:


> I don't know if you have anything like this one in Alberta or not 99....but this is the course that me and most of guys have taken. Lots of good info.:thumbsup:


What course, Rollie? I think we have a missing link :laughing:


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## 99cents

I couldn't find an image of a missing link so I used an image of a drywaller instead...

Same thing.


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## CADPoint

What was the problem and how did you fix it?


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## Rollie73

99cents said:


> What course, Rollie? I think we have a missing link :laughing:


 
I put the link there now 99. My bad.


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## 51360

99cents said:


> I'm an electrician, not a cable dude. I did a panel swap this week and the customer lost the dial tone on his phone. I spent valuable time and embarrassment *trouble shooting a phone modem before I got it going again*. Where can I learn about this chit? Is there an on-line course?


Good for you, you got it going again. :thumbsup:

Now you can work for Telus. They need good trouble shooters. 

Borgi


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## Ty Wrapp

Black Dog said:


> Send a PM to The best, The man who invented the phone and cable....
> 
> *Ty Wrapp *
> Senior Member
> 
> 
> 
> Join Date: Aug 2011
> Location: Shawnee KS
> Posts: 1,707
> Rewards Points: 1,254
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup::thumbup:


I'm embarrassed :blush:


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## Black Dog

Ty Wrapp said:


> I'm embarrassed :blush:


Just funning you sir,,,:laughing::thumbsup:


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## Ty Wrapp

My Mom switched her CATV, internet and phone service to another provider because she got a good deal (and my sister got a $100.00 referral fee).

The new provider showed up at 9:00AM to do the conversion. I stopped by Mom's house at 3:00PM to see how things went, the service tech was still there. 

He said the TV and internet went lickety split, but could not get the phone to work. He called 2 other techs and his boss for help, still could not get it to work. I looked the situation over and told the tech "scotchlock these 2 wires together, you're done".

He was grateful for the help.


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## Bootss

I was going to get additional training in phone and telecommunications back in the day but then I got laid off.
:icon_cry::icon_cry:


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## chicken steve

Ty Wrapp said:


> "scotchlock these 2 wires together, you're done".
> 
> He was grateful for the help.


B4T smiles from the great 'lectrical beyond....:thumbsup:

~CS~


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## Roger123

99cents said:


> Good idea. I don't laugh at Youtube. I kept my old truck running off Youtube. I installed 600 square feet of hardwood, sanded and finished it off Youtube.
> 
> I should have thought of YouTube yesterday when I was playing beat the clock to get off a job and the customer's damn phone wasn't working  .


Cool, I install a drop ceiling off of YouTube also!!! Even framed it around the basement's window off of YouTube.


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## LGLS

99cents said:


> I'm an electrician, not a cable dude. I did a panel swap this week and the customer lost the dial tone on his phone. I spent valuable time and embarrassment trouble shooting a phone modem before I got it going again. Where can I learn about this chit? Is there an on-line course?


Exactly how did swapping a panel affect the cable modem?


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## CADPoint

CADPoint said:


> What was the problem and how did you fix it?





IslandGuy said:


> Exactly how did swapping a panel affect the cable modem?


Maybe that little tag that cable tech's put on the wire off their drops that says please maintain connection to ground...


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## 99cents

CADPoint said:


> What was the problem and how did you fix it?


Dumbass cable guy stuffed the modem above the disconnect so tight that it took a crowbar and hand grenades to get it out. Coax got pulled out in the process.


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## jeffmoss26

Sounds like most cable guys!


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## Ty Wrapp

99cents said:


> Dumbass cable guy stuffed the modem above the disconnect so tight that it took a crowbar and hand grenades to get it out. Coax got pulled out in the process.


Around here, they leave the modem dangling in mid-air.


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## five.five-six

I do both, and the stuff that requires a nice sewing kit is far more complicated than the stuff that can kill you....Sewing kit pays better too, I just find electrical more enjoyable.


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## triden

TIP (T) and RING (R), is there more to it?


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## Ty Wrapp

five.five-six said:


> I do both, and the stuff that requires a nice sewing kit is far more complicated than the stuff that can kill you....Sewing kit pays better too, I just find electrical more enjoyable.


I'm guessing that you are calling it a sewing kit because of the scissors. Then why are they called ELECTRICIAN SCISSORS?

http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/electricians-scissors/electricians-scissors-stripping-notches

By the way, those of us in the "Sewing Trade" refer to them as "snips". Never have been called scissors. Snips are one tool I can not work without, it does not take 9" lineman pliers to cut 19 to 26 gauge wire. Once you get the hang of working with snips, you will wonder how you got along without them. I know you think snips are not manly, but I believe in using the right tool for the job.


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## Ty Wrapp

triden said:


> TIP (T) and RING (R), is there more to it?


I have 20 pages of training records that says otherwise :whistling2:


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## Edrick

Why cant I get a dial tone?! Those are fun to troubleshoot. Just as a phone guy may not be able to troubleshoot a 120 circuit and why the lights flicker an electrician might not be able to figure out why the customer is dropping dial tone. 

Or why the network keeps dropping out with no pattern or reason. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 51360

Ty Wrapp said:


> I have 20 pages of training records that says otherwise :whistling2:


Quick question. If the coax cable was removed from the modem, would you lose your dial tone. I would say no.

Borgi


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## 99cents

Borgi said:


> Quick question. If the coax cable was removed from the modem, would you lose your dial tone. I would say no.
> 
> Borgi


When it's cable phone, yes.


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## 51360

99cents said:


> When it's cable phone, yes.


Agreed, but why would you not have a LAN line as well?

Not questioning what happened 99cents, just seems odd that someone would trust a cable phone, without back up! Although my neighbour did use VOIP for years, unsuccessfully I might add. :laughing:

Borgi


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## daveEM

Here Borgi Shaw (the cable co. for others) tries to talk you out of your landline. Suggesting their system is just as good.

Myself I use Wind as my cell provider ($35 a month for everything) but even prior to them when I was with Fido I cancelled my land line. So no land line for at least 10 years.

I must have saved a few bucks.


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## 51360

Ty Wrapp said:


> I'm guessing that you are calling it a sewing kit because of the scissors. Then why are they called ELECTRICIAN SCISSORS?
> 
> http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/electricians-scissors/electricians-scissors-stripping-notches
> 
> By the way, those of us in the "Sewing Trade" *refer to them as "snips". Never have been called scissors. *Snips are one tool I can not work without, it does not take 9" lineman pliers to cut 19 to 26 gauge wire. Once you get the hang of working with snips, you will wonder how you got along without them. I know you think snips are not manly, but I believe in using the right tool for the job.


My mother always told me NOT to run with scissors, she never mentioned snips.

:laughing:

Actually I seen a Telus guy using them, and he loved them. 

Borgi


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## 51360

daveEM said:


> Here Borgi Shaw (the cable co. for others) tries to talk you out of your landline. Suggesting their system is just as good.
> 
> Myself I use Wind as my cell provider ($35 a month for everything) but even prior to them when I was with Fido I cancelled my land line. So no land line for at least 10 years.
> 
> I must have saved a few bucks.


I agree, it's a land line. 

My sister has Shaw, but she kept her land line. That's where I seen Mr. Scissor hands. :laughing:

Where I am, in a rural area, we can't get reliable cell service from anyone. We use Telus land lines for telephone, and HotLink broadband for Internet service. They do provide VOIP, but it's not reliable.

Borgi


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## Ty Wrapp

Borgi said:


> Quick question. If the coax cable was removed from the modem, would you lose your dial tone. I would say no.
> 
> Borgi


If that coax is the feeder to the modem, yes you would lose dial tone as well as tv and internet. The coax brings in the digital signal and the modem splits it all out.


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## Ty Wrapp

Borgi said:


> ... Mr. Scissor hands. :laughing:
> 
> 
> Borgi


I like that. I may need to add that to my signature line :thumbup:


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## 99cents

Ty Wrapp said:


> If that coax is the feeder to the modem, yes you would lose dial tone as well as tv and internet. The coax brings in the digital signal and the modem splits it all out.


Two modems in this place - one for internet and TV, one for phone.


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## five.five-six

triden said:


> TIP (T) and RING (R), is there more to it?


Here's a trivia question (no goggling the answer): 

Why are they called tip and ring?


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## Edrick

The old phone patch cord days with the operators, we still use the patch cables in the audio world in patch bays. 

Also TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) 

Tip of the connector and the physical ring on the connector I suppose


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## five.five-six

Edrick said:


> The old phone patch cord days with the operators, we still use the patch cables in the audio world in patch bays.
> 
> Also TRS (tip, ring, sleeve)
> 
> Tip of the connector and the physical ring on the connector I suppose


Outstanding!

Next question (also no goggling):

Do you know who invented the first telephone switch (American) and why they did?


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## 51360

Who invented the telephone? 

Borgi


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## five.five-six

Borgi said:


> Who invented the telephone?
> 
> Borgi


The answer to my question is actually quite fascinating. The guy that invented the phone switch was in an occupation that couldn't be more unrelated to telephony.... But his need inspired the innovation. His competitor's wife was a cord board operator.


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## 99cents

Borgi said:


> Who invented the telephone?
> 
> Borgi


I think it was Steve Jobs.


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## RIVETER

99cents said:


> I'm an electrician, not a cable dude. I did a panel swap this week and the customer lost the dial tone on his phone. I spent valuable time and embarrassment trouble shooting a phone modem before I got it going again. Where can I learn about this chit? Is there an on-line course?


Unplug router...wait one minute, and then plug it in.


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## Ty Wrapp

99cents said:


> Two modems in this place - one for internet and TV, one for phone.


Not possible! Please explain.


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## Ty Wrapp

Borgi said:


> Who invented the telephone?
> 
> Borgi


My guess would be Alexander Graham Bell.


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## Ty Wrapp

Why is phone voltage -48 volts?


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## five.five-six

Ty Wrapp said:


> Why is phone voltage -48 volts?


It's not. It's -52. That's inside plant voltage. 

Inside plant battery strings are comprised of 24 wet cells, that's why.


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## Ty Wrapp

five.five-six said:


> It's not. It's -52. That's inside plant voltage.
> 
> Inside plant battery strings are comprised of 24 wet cells, that's why.


Actually the voltage fluxuates by a few volts.

The original phone system was built using street car batteries. the batteries were -48v.


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## five.five-six

Ty Wrapp said:


> Actually the voltage fluxuates by a few volts.


Trust me, it doesn't. If it ever did, it would be a major event. Both commercial power and the generators would have to be down for over an hour for it to drop a few volts. You may be seeing variations in voltage because of line conditions and because of the fact that you could be hundreds or thousands of feet from the CO, but inside plant voltage is stable within a few hundred millivolts.


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## Ty Wrapp

Just curious, what is your telephony experience?


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## five.five-six

I've done a little work inside COs. 

Nominal it's a 48 volt system but float voltage is 52.80 and it stays right there.


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## Ty Wrapp

I've spent some time in C.O.s. but it was usually running jumpers and doing pair transfers, not concentrating on the voltmeters on the equipment. My main job was out in the field, so my experiences are a little different.


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## five.five-six

Ty Wrapp said:


> I've spent some time in C.O.s. but it was usually running jumpers and doing pair transfers, not concentrating on the voltmeters on the equipment. My main job was out in the field, so my experiences are a little different.


What kind of jumpers were you running? Did you work for a colocator?


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## 99cents

Ty Wrapp said:


> Not possible! Please explain.


Okay, let's just call them black boxes...


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## A Little Short

five.five-six said:


> Do you know who invented the first telephone switch (American) and why they did?


Al Gore......right before he invented the internet!:whistling2:


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## five.five-six

A Little Short said:


> Al Gore......right before he invented the internet!:whistling2:


No, it wasn't Al Gore. All he invented was the internet and global warming. 

The patent for the automatic telephone exchange was in 1891, few years before Gore was born.


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## Ty Wrapp

five.five-six said:


> What kind of jumpers were you running? Did you work for a colocator?


These kind of jumpers...










I worked for AT&T. 3 out 4 COs that I dealt with were unmanned. I could call out a frame attendant and wait for hours or I could drive to the CO and wire it myself.


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## A Little Short

five.five-six said:


> No, it wasn't Al Gore. All he invented was the internet and global warming.
> 
> The patent for the automatic telephone exchange was in 1891, few years before Gore was born.


Obviously you missed this :whistling2: in my post!


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## five.five-six

Ty Wrapp said:


> These kind of jumpers...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked for AT&T. 3 out 4 COs that I dealt with were unmanned. I could call out a frame attendant and wait for hours or I could drive to the CO and wire it myself.


Did you have to solder your wire wraps? 

What did the CWA members say when they caught you doing their work? You know that you were taking food off their tables, right?


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## Ty Wrapp

The CO I worked at were all fairly new so they were punch down lugs.
I did work in a mall and a old folks home that were solder terminals.

I'm a CWA member. No problems running my own jumpers in the CO. 
The frame attendants were already overworked so they appreciated the help.


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## five.five-six

Overworked frame attendants? This must have been at least 12 years ago.


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## five.five-six

A Little Short said:


> Obviously you missed this :whistling2: in my post!


No, I 'm just pimping my question about whom invented the automatic telephone exchange. I'm hoping somebody knows.


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> No, I 'm just pimping my question about whom invented the automatic telephone exchange. I'm hoping somebody knows.


Its the funeral director thing right? A guy from Belden had it in one of his presentations.


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## GrayHair

*Who invented the telephone switch?*

Strowger (spelling may not be correct) . First name Adam?? Quite a few were built and used before he sold his patents; of course Bell ended up with them. Commonly called a "stepped switch", the basic concept remained in use until relatively (my perspective) recently.

I'll throw one in the ring: 
*Transposition brackets* -- What were they and why were they used?​ Regards!


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## Ty Wrapp

Listening to the clickety clack of a stepped switch was deafening and would drive a person insane


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## five.five-six

I just thought that it was fascinating, that the impetus for his innovation was because there were 2 funeral homes in town, his competitor's wife was a cord board operator and would patch all his calls through to her husband. It was costing him money, so to solve the problem he invented the automatic telephone exchange. 


Step by step then cross bar then into the 4E's etc


Step by step leads us into the next question:

*Why were the original area codes for LA 213, and New York 212? *

Hint: It was engineered that way.

no googling!


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## five.five-six

Ty Wrapp said:


> Listening to the clickety clack of a stepped switch was deafening and would drive a person insane



Actually, the N-techs that worked in those switches didn't even hear it after a few years. But if a contact was sticking, they could walk right to it. I have never been in in a Step CO, but I did have to walk through a crossbar CO a few times and that was enough for me. 



GrayHair said:


> *Transposition brackets* -- What were they and why were they used?​Regards!


Good question, can't wait to find out!


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## Ty Wrapp

five.five-six said:


> *Why were the original area codes for LA 213, and New York 212? *
> 
> Hint: It was engineered that way.
> 
> no googling!


It was so that dialing on a rotary phone was faster.


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## five.five-six

Ty Wrapp said:


> It was so that dialing on a rotary phone was faster.


Right, so that the longest and most expensive transcontinental trunks would be seized for a shorter time. It would shave a few seconds off each call allowing for more erlangs.


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## Ty Wrapp

Five Guy, did you ever work for Pac Bell?


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## jeffmoss26

Ty Wrapp said:


> I'm guessing that you are calling it a sewing kit because of the scissors. Then why are they called ELECTRICIAN SCISSORS?
> 
> http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/electricians-scissors/electricians-scissors-stripping-notches
> 
> By the way, those of us in the "Sewing Trade" refer to them as "snips". Never have been called scissors. Snips are one tool I can not work without, it does not take 9" lineman pliers to cut 19 to 26 gauge wire. Once you get the hang of working with snips, you will wonder how you got along without them. I know you think snips are not manly, but I believe in using the right tool for the job.


YES! Snips all the way!


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## five.five-six

Ty Wrapp said:


> Five Guy, did you ever work for Pac Bell?


No, I have never worked for Pacific Bell.


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## xpertpc

The only thing I knew about was Tip & Ring, and that was probably wrong too.

The amount of information I get from this site never ceases to amaze me, I'd bet with our combined knowledge we could start our own country, Then every 3 months we could vote in a new dictator who would get 10% off Harbor Freight.


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## Edrick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCgCSMq5Xpo#t=856
Tells the creation with the undertaker


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