# Mounting 100 amp panel upside down



## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

Hey guys, Does the code say anything specific about mounting a panel upside down ? Am I allowed to mount a panel upside down?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

For newer panels there is no such thing as "upside down". 
Pretty much all newer panels have main breakers that move side-to-side, so its breaker top or breaker bottom. Look at all the writing and stickers on the panel. Pretty much all are written sideways.

Edit: Sorry, I just noticed your location. I'm not sure what the exact rules are in Canada. I know you guys could mount panels sideways, so I don't know. My answer applies to the US.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

powerblitz said:


> Hey guys, Does the code say anything specific about mounting a panel upside down ? Am I allowed to mount a panel upside down?


 
Dude you're in Canada......we can even mount our panels sideways. There are a few codes restricting mounting of panelboards but nothing about orientation of the main breaker per se.




> *26-402 Location of panelboards *
> *(see Appendix G)*
> 
> (1) Panelboards shall not be located in coal bins, clothes closets, bathrooms, stairways, high ambient rooms,
> ...


​​​​
​


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> For newer panels there is no such thing as "upside down".
> Pretty much all newer panels have main breakers that move side-to-side, so its breaker top or breaker bottom. Look at all the writing and stickers on the panel. Pretty much all are written sideways.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, I just noticed your location. I'm not sure what the exact rules are in Canada. I know you guys could mount panels sideways, so I don't know. My answer applies to the US.


 
You're still basically correct Speedy:thumbsup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Of interest is our particular NEC code here>



> *408.55* Wire-Bending Space Within an Enclosure Con-
> taining a Panel board.
> 
> (A) Top and Bottom Wire-Bending Space. The enclosure
> ...


The _literal_ interpretation dictating our panel position up or down, but not sideways....~CS~


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Rollie73 said:


> Dude you're in Canada......we can even mount our panels sideways. There are a few codes restricting mounting of panelboards but nothing about orientation of the main breaker per se.
> 
> 
> 
> [/LEFT]


I've seen that on HGTV, what advantage does it have being mounted sideways?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

3DDesign said:


> I've seen that on HGTV, what advantage does it have being mounted sideways?


 
Sometimes we are restricted by space constraints and are unable to achieve the maximum breaker height of 1.7M with some larger panels. 

For example if the panel were to be mounted above a knee wall in a split entry style home and the wall was 1m high. Regardless of top or bottom orientation of the main breaker we would have breakers that exceed the 1.7m height above the finished floor. Hence the allowance to mount it sideways and keep all the breakers well under that 1.7m.


Just one example.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Rollie73 said:


> Sometimes we are restricted by space constraints and are unable to achieve the maximum breaker height of 1.7M with some larger panels.
> 
> For example if the panel were to be mounted above a knee wall in a split entry style home and the wall was 1m high. Regardless of top or bottom orientation of the main breaker we would have breakers that exceed the 1.7m height above the finished floor. Hence the allowance to mount it sideways and keep all the breakers well under that 1.7m.
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

NEC - 240.33 "Vertical Position"

They can be installed horizontally if a vertical position is impracticable and the circuit breaker(s) would be installed according to 240.81 "Indicating"
Which is UP position is ON or closed, if they are operated vertically. ( this applies to all breakers in the panel, not just a main breaker)


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## g-alberta (Dec 1, 2012)

So in the states if you mount a panel horizontally you can only use half the breakers?


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

g-alberta said:


> So in the states if you mount a panel horizontally you can only use half the breakers?


If the panel needs to be mounted horizontally for whatever reason that would be, then any positions for the overcurrent devices that now operate vertically could only have breakers installed with the top handle position being on or closed.

So far I've never had to do this.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Pretty darn rare that we would mount a panel sideways.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I have never seen a situation where we it would have beneficial to mount a panel sideways here in the US


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> Pretty darn rare that we would mount a panel sideways.





Dennis Alwon said:


> I have never seen a situation where we it would have beneficial to mount a panel sideways here in the US


 
Do you guys have the same (or similar) height restrictions on breakers that us folks north of the border deal with?

I posted that code rule earlier in this thread.


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Rollie73 said:


> Do you guys have the same (or similar) height restrictions on breakers that us folks north of the border deal with?
> 
> I posted that code rule earlier in this thread.


6' 6" main breaker height (max)


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

Kaffeene said:


> If the panel needs to be mounted horizontally for whatever reason that would be, then any positions for the overcurrent devices that now operate vertically could only have breakers installed with the top handle position being on or closed.
> 
> So far I've never had to do this.


maybe im not reading this right, but what other way could it be? but on or closed:001_huh:got it. on or open, depending on your train of thought


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

papaotis said:


> maybe im not reading this right, but what other way could it be? but on or closed:001_huh:got it. on or open, depending on your train of thought


I had an inspector tell me if the breaker said "NO" then it was wrong!:whistling2:


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

papaotis said:


> maybe im not reading this right, but what other way could it be? but on or closed:001_huh:got it. on or open, depending on your train of thought


If you take a standard load center with 2 rows of breakers on the left and right sides that operate left & right. Now turn the panel horizontally, the now horizontal top row of breakers operate vertically and is in the ON (closed) position when the operating handle is in the down position.

The bottom horizontal row of breakers is in the ON (closed) position when the operating handle is in the up position.
The bottom row would be the only row you could use and the metal blanks would remain in the top horizontal row. 

An inspector could argue that the top horizontal row could easily accommodate breakers if someone wanted to use those spaces, and overcurrent devices would be in the wrong indicating handle position.

Of course this is a rare or non existent situation. If you did have to mount it horizontally, you might just want to look at a different load center size and design that would better accommodate the space.

"...Upside down", the name of this topic, is more common.


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## Jmiester (Apr 8, 2015)

IMHO
2014 NEC. 240.24 (A) Accessibility. "Overcurrent devices shall be readily accessible and shall be so installed so that the center of the grip of the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker, when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working platform, unless one of the following applies:
(1) For busways, as provided in 368.17(C).
(2) For supplementary overcurrent protection, as described in 240.10.
(3) For overcurrent devices, as described in 225.40 and 230.92.
(4) For overcurrent devices adjacent to utilization equipment that they supply, access shall be permitted to be by portable means." 
jmiester


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

If a main breaker panel has a the breaker handle operating in a up/down position then it could not be flipped for bottom feed,, unless it was permitted to flip the main breaker around to have the correct position of the handle, most models of loadcenters have horizontally operated handles to allow top or bottom feed. Unless it is made for top feed only, it's not upside down or right side up.


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## Big Pickles (Oct 25, 2014)

4SQUARE said:


> 6' 6" main breaker height (max)


Give or take an inch


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Big Pickles said:


> Give or take an inch


Playing it safe. :laughing:


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