# cinder block walls



## hogsmoss (Apr 30, 2009)

i would think that emt would look fine exposed in a garage, but are the finished walls in the living space cinder block?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

No. Just cinders in the basement. Everything upstairs is finished. I know emt is fine, just curious if anyone had done one of these and knew of a better way. It doesn't appear that I will be able to fish nm down the walls, b/c it would seem that there would be a beam sitting on top of the voids.


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## ricoreece1 (Jul 6, 2009)

Doesn't seem like you have a whole lot of option, emt or rigid would seem to be the best for exposed in this application. Only other option is to run inside the cavities of the cinder blocks and if your doing it from the slab up youll pretty much have to have it fabbed before they start blocking around the box. Good luck.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

ricoreece1 said:


> Doesn't seem like you have a whole lot of option, emt or rigid would seem to be the best for exposed in this application. Only other option is to run inside the cavities of the cinder blocks and if your doing it from the slab up youll pretty much have to have it fabbed before they start blocking around the box. Good luck.


Right, have it fabbed as it is going up....virtually impossible. Yeah, that what I told the GC as well. Oh well, emt it is .


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## ricoreece1 (Jul 6, 2009)

Well I meant fabbed as it is going up if you still had the means to run underground pvc and put stubups inside the cinderblocks. Sorry for the miscommunication.

I feel a little out of place without a rat picture on this topic.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Even so, it would be one hell of a job to do that .


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## ricoreece1 (Jul 6, 2009)

Yea it is, we roughed in a prison that way. Have to stay on the block layers ass and set the mudring of your box right above the mortar line of the block you want to be above the whole building round. They custom fit the block around it after that point. But if its residential and low budget (refering to the guy paying for your time) exposed would probably be the way to go.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

That would be ideal, but yeah, I think it will put the bid way out of the ball park.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Right, have it fabbed as it is going up....virtually impossible. Yeah, that what I told the GC as well. Oh well, emt it is .


Why not? It's done in commercial jobs all the time! Just because it's a dwelling garage doesn't mean they use a different sort of CMU.

It's just a matter of whether the HO wants to pay for it looking nice.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Why not? It's done in commercial jobs all the time! Just because it's a dwelling garage doesn't mean they use a different sort of CMU.
> 
> It's just a matter of whether the HO wants to pay for it looking nice.


Yeah, I should have not used the word impossible. I have no experience with this. I've never come across it. Just not sure how to accomplish this in a reasonable amount of time and expense.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Yeah, I should have not used the word impossible. I have no experience with this. I've never come across it. Just not sure how to accomplish this in a reasonable amount of time and expense.


I've been on big jobs where I spent weeks (even months!) chasing brickies, doing nothing but setting boxes and installing 30" chucks of EMT with couplings on them. A resi garage would be a piece of cake, compared to a comm job.

Just an hour or so of planning, a couple hours installing some PVC on the ground before the slab gets poured, and maybe another half day when the CMUs go in, and you're done! Come back when the lid's on, and start pulling THHN............


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok. It's a little foreign to me that is all. I've never done commercial work. Thanks for the help.


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

If you treat those block layers right,many times they'll darn near do your job for you. The offer of Barley Therapy is often all it takes,though you'll still want to oversee them.Usually they know just what you want,and will be happy to keep you out of their way.Just do an accurate lay-out, prefab your boxes(taped up well),30" pieces of pipe w/coupling,sit back and watch them.Keep them in frosty beverages,if the job conditions allow.Steve.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

What do you mean by 30'' with a coupling? Is that just enough to let them do their job and leave you alone for a while?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I feel like i'm a diyer asking dumb questions on this one:jester:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> What do you mean by 30'' with a coupling? Is that just enough to let them do their job and leave you alone for a while?


 What Ken was saying he uses 30" nipples so the mason can still put the blocks over your conduit. I use 40" pieces myself. No scrap with either measurement.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

william1978 said:


> What Ken was saying he uses 30" nipples so the mason can still put the blocks over your conduit. I use 40" pieces myself. No scrap with either measurement.


That's what I thought....I'm not as dumb as I thought-maybe.


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Anybody ever have to wire a house with cinder block walls? The 1st floor/garage is all cinder block walls. Arlington makes a great box for outdoor applications, but i'm wondering what I should do for the inside. Not sure if I want to emt the whole place, it would look pretty commercial. Anyone know of any products out there to use in this application?


 all the time here 1- in a garage the top course of block is poured solid bypass that, sleeve with flex then fish down void and install cut in box (watch box fill) 2 - inside walls have 3/4 insu. board then 3/4 furing strip screw 1-1/2 deep 4 sq to wall use stand offs on furing strip romex conn./tomix to box install mud ring - bodda bing bodda boom


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> That's what I thought....I'm not as dumb as I thought-maybe.


 No. Better to ask a question before you get caught with your pants down.

I hope I never have to chase masons again, I spent about 7 years doing schools and everything was in the block walls. Would spend about 8 months out of the year chasing them.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Well, they aren't finishing the walls. Just painting the cinders. The ceiling will be finished rock.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Cinder block*



NolaTigaBait said:


> Anybody ever have to wire a house with cinder block walls? The 1st floor/garage is all cinder block walls. Arlington makes a great box for outdoor applications, but i'm wondering what I should do for the inside. Not sure if I want to emt the whole place, it would look pretty commercial. Anyone know of any products out there to use in this application?


Are you asking this because the interior walls of the basement may eventually be a finished living space?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> Are you asking this because the interior walls of the basement may eventually be a finished living space?


Not sure what the future plans may be. As of now, just cinder walls. I'm asking the question b/c i'm ignorant on the subject.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Ignorant*



NolaTigaBait said:


> Not sure what the future plans may be. As of now, just cinder walls. I'm asking the question b/c i'm ignorant on the subject.


Many people misunderstand the word IGNORANT. To be ignorant is not something bad. It is the same as saying that I am not knowledgeable of something. That, most likely, applies to all of us. The reason I asked is that, depending on the thickness of the WALL material they may be considering at a later date, it would make a difference in how I would do it originally.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I understand the meaning, that's why I used it. I also understand your question , as far as I know the wall will not ever be finished, so they would prefer that the wiring be concealed.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Cinder block walls*



NolaTigaBait said:


> I understand the meaning, that's why I used it. I also understand your question , as far as I know the wall will not ever be finished, so they would prefer that the wiring be concealed.


Okay, then, In order to be both concealed and available for future possible use I would go as close to the top of the wall and enter the block with with BX and use the VOIDS to get to wherever I needed to be. The boxes can be placed where they need to be...for now, and you can use extension rings, if necessary, for the future.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> Okay, then, In order to be both concealed and available for future possible use I would go as close to the top of the wall and enter the block with with BX and use the VOIDS to get to wherever I needed to be. The boxes can be placed where they need to be...for now, and you can use extension rings, if necessary, for the future.


:thumbsup:


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## idontknow (Jul 18, 2009)

ampman said:


> all the time here 1- in a garage the top course of block is poured solid bypass that, sleeve with flex then fish down void and install cut in box (watch box fill) - bodda bing bodda boom


We do the same thing though we use 1/2" EMT. Put a 30` kick on the end of a piece of pipe, cut to 16", install couplings or connectors.

Also you may want to try using a length of jack chain to help fish the voids.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Cinder block*



NolaTigaBait said:


> :thumbsup:


I hope you realize who you agreed with...and I hope that your future on this forum is not compromised.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> I hope you realize who you agreed with...and I hope that your future on this forum is not compromised.


:jester:. I don't have a problem with you. You got bunched in with that rewire guy...he was a j-off.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

You can also notch the block with an angle grinder and recess a box and approved wiring method. Mud it over smoothly, and, if the price is right, texture to match.

It isn't that hard. The grinder will cut block like butter, and I use an air hammer to chisel it. It works much better than an electric hammer.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> :jester:. I don't have a problem with you. You got bunched in with that rewire guy...he was a j-off.


 Yea, REWIRE fall off of his rocker.:whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Many people misunderstand the word IGNORANT. To be ignorant is not something bad. It is the same as saying that I am not knowledgeable of something. That, most likely, applies to all of us. The reason I asked is that, depending on the thickness of the WALL material they may be considering at a later date, it would make a difference in how I would do it originally.


 
We are ALL ignornant. Just on different subjects.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> We are ALL ignornant. Just on different subjects.


 yep, I agree.:thumbsup:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> You can also notch the block with an angle grinder and recess a box and approved wiring method. Mud it over smoothly, and, if the price is right, texture to match.
> 
> It isn't that hard. The grinder will cut block like butter, and I use an air hammer to chisel it. It works much better than an electric hammer.


It says I can use nm in the voids of masonry. Its pretty obvious that there is a million different ways to tackle the problem. I've never been on a job with cinders, so I don't know what to expect.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Ignorant*



480sparky said:


> We are ALL ignornant. Just on different subjects.


True.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If the customer wants the wiring method concealed, they need to both pay for it and _*have a plan*_. It gets expensive to retrofit CMU walls.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

480sparky said:


> If the customer wants the wiring method concealed, they need to both pay for it and _*have a plan*_. It gets expensive to retrofit CMU walls.


 I agree. The plan is where I come in:jester::laughing:. I need to figure this out. I don't want to retro fit the walls by any means. I think the underground would be a bitch. There are 3 ways and 4 ways and outlets and blah blah blah. Can they put plastic boxes in cmu walls? Or should I go with metallic?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I agree. The plan is where I come in:jester::laughing:. I need to figure this out. I don't want to retro fit the walls by any means. I think the underground would be a bitch. There are 3 ways and 4 ways and outlets and blah blah blah. Can they put plastic boxes in cmu walls? Or should I go with metallic?


 
I'm not saying ALL the wiring should be underground. Just from recep to recep. The lighting should pretty much be from the switches up. Having the recep pipes down low keeps you from having 40 runs up the walls to tie everything together.

UG is the preferred method in commercial. I can't see any reason it wouldn't be preferred in resi work.

Plastic can be used, but I've never done it. EMT & metal moxes for me.

Do you at least have a floor plan with the electrical on it?


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## idontknow (Jul 18, 2009)

If you're flush mounting devices, plastic boxes are fine but be aware that the ears on a plastic box are much narrower than those of a metallic box. Knock the hole a little too big and you could end up with the box falling through the hole. 

As a side note, if you do make the hole too big, you can use spray foam to fill in the area behind the box and all around it to effectively glue it in place


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I'm not saying ALL the wiring should be underground. Just from recep to recep. The lighting should pretty much be from the switches up. Having the recep pipes down low keeps you from having 40 runs up the walls to tie everything together.
> 
> UG is the preferred method in commercial. I can't see any reason it wouldn't be preferred in resi work.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have the floor plan. I'm not too confused about the underground. It makes sense what you say about the recepts. I need to use pvc for the slab and I could use emt for above the slab in the walls. I'll probably end up sleeving nm for the switch legs.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

There are tons of CB houses here. The big issue is the bond beam.

If it's exposed block you have to work with the masons and know where you want to access the walls and get a PVC sub or block out in there.

Boxes are an issue with exposed block. You can bang ion a handy box pretty tight but they are too small for general stuff. A masory box holds well if it's installed by the mason and grouted in while he's building the wall. The best bet tin those situations is deep masonry boxes with PVC stubs installed during construction.

If it's furred out drywal over block we would run exposed past the bond beam, drop into the wall, then cover that short section with channel iron. If the block is fyrred the boxes aren't an issue because you can nail a shallow box to the furring.


In a tract situation the masons would leave an opening in selected chases and we would drill the top plate and fish down the wall with jack chain. In a custom, you better be there before they grout.

If it's just the basement walls it seems like you could drill the bottom plate of the first floor framed walls and rotohammer thru the bond beam into a chase then fish down.


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

The reason these guys are talking about 30" or 40" emt pieces is because CMU block is laid three courses at a time. (each day) More than that and the grout squeezes out. So the block layers will set the first course in the foundation and come back the next day and lay three more courses and so on. There was a whole thread about this a while ago.


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

I would also suggest doing a search here with the terms:

Concrete Block

Here's one thread:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/conduit-block-1794/


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

egads said:


> The reason these guys are talking about 30" or 40" emt pieces is because CMU block is laid three courses at a time. (each day) More than that and the grout squeezes out. So the block layers will set the first course in the foundation and come back the next day and lay three more courses and so on. There was a whole thread about this a while ago.


I've been on jobs where there were a dozen brickies on the scaffold laying 30-40 courses a day. And _every cell_ was grouted.

The _real _reason for short pieces of pipe are so the brickes can lift a CMU over the top of the pipe and lower it into place.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks for the help fellas.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'd only put PVC in the walls if I were you. You might have problems code wise with EMT in the block. Read that section and ask the AHJ. 

Looping your receptacle from the bottom in the slab with 3/4 PVC would be how I would do it. I would also try to make each end of the loop terminate into a accessible box or area in case you lose a conduit. The reason to go in the ground for looping them versus above is ease of installation. You'll be in the joists for looping your PVC. Or you could just run a PVC chase up into the joists void then fish NM and use the PVC as a protective chase. I'd check with the AHJ before doing that though. There's some real clowns out there for inspectors it seems from the electrical board chatter.

You mentioned the lid will be rock covered? Will that be over a joist type construction? What access from the top of the CMU wall to the void in the trusses is there going to be? I'd probably run a couple of PVC chases out of my switch boxes and stub them into the truss void. Then pull NM for my switch legs.

If you decide to go with boxes in the masonry it's not that hard to work with. Just have to prep your materials and plan on being present for the wall construction. Factor that into your cost. You have to be there for every block laid.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

ricoreece1 said:


> Doesn't seem like you have a whole lot of option, emt or rigid would seem to be the best for exposed in this application. Only other option is to run inside the cavities of the cinder blocks and if your doing it from the slab up youll pretty much have to have it fabbed before they start blocking around the box. Good luck.


Thats right. Its new construction and this is how it's done. 



NolaTigaBait said:


> Even so, it would be one hell of a job to do that .


Actually if you use your head before the pour it will be easier. Get as much run in the slab as possible. EMT or PVC.



480sparky said:


> Why not? It's done in commercial jobs all the time! Just because it's a dwelling garage doesn't mean they use a different sort of CMU.


Its because of the plastic and NM ideology. Throw in some conduit, metal boxes and concrete and they no longer are electricians. We cut our teeth on this stuff during apprenticeships. Heck, when I first started out, NM was not allowed in my jurisdiction.



NolaTigaBait said:


> Yeah, I should have not used the word impossible. I have no experience with this. I've never come across it. Just not sure how to accomplish this in a reasonable amount of time and expense.


I keep forgetting most everyone here was raised up on plastic boxes and NM. I can see why this seems so difficult.



480sparky said:


> I've been on big jobs where I spent weeks (even months!) chasing brickies, doing nothing but setting boxes and installing 30" chucks of EMT with couplings on them. A resi garage would be a piece of cake, compared to a comm job.
> 
> Just an hour or so of planning, a couple hours installing some PVC on the ground before the slab gets poured, and maybe another half day when the CMUs go in, and you're done! Come back when the lid's on, and start pulling THHN............


480. This just a prime example of residential guys not familiar with commercial work. Its a shame as when I was learning this trade, I was taught how to do these things. 



ibuzzard said:


> If you treat those block layers right,many times they'll darn near do your job for you. The offer of Barley Therapy is often all it takes,though you'll still want to oversee them.Usually they know just what you want,and will be happy to keep you out of their way.Just do an accurate lay-out, prefab your boxes(taped up well),30" pieces of pipe w/coupling,sit back and watch them.Keep them in frosty beverages,if the job conditions allow.Steve.


Thats the truth and they can ruin your job too. Make sure you stay on their good side and all should go well.



NolaTigaBait said:


> I feel like i'm a diyer asking dumb questions on this one:jester:


Are you a licensed contractor?



ampman said:


> all the time here 1- in a garage the top course of block is poured solid bypass that, sleeve with flex then fish down void and install cut in box (watch box fill) 2 - inside walls have 3/4 insu. board then 3/4 furing strip screw 1-1/2 deep 4 sq to wall use stand offs on furing strip romex conn./tomix to box install mud ring - bodda bing bodda boom


I wish I could understand what you are talking about. 



NolaTigaBait said:


> I understand the meaning, that's why I used it. I also understand your question , as far as I know the wall will not ever be finished, so they would prefer that the wiring be concealed.


You never install for the future, unless its your house. You install to pass inspection. Inspectors do not have crystal balls and can only inspect what you have today. What happens down the road is addressed , well, down the road.



RIVETER said:


> Okay, then, In order to be both concealed and available for future possible use I would go as close to the top of the wall and enter the block with with BX and use the VOIDS to get to wherever I needed to be. The boxes can be placed where they need to be...for now, and you can use extension rings, if necessary, for the future.


Again, install for this inspection. Bury everything in the walls during construction. Receptacles and switches. You can always stub out for lighting. You will need mud rings on every box that will hold a device or fixture. Use standard 1900 boxes and mug rings. 



InPhase277 said:


> You can also notch the block with an angle grinder and recess a box and approved wiring method. Mud it over smoothly, and, if the price is right, texture to match.
> 
> It isn't that hard. The grinder will cut block like butter, and I use an air hammer to chisel it. It works much better than an electric hammer.


Not when I can get it in before the walls are finished. 



480sparky said:


> I'm not saying ALL the wiring should be underground. Just from recep to recep. The lighting should pretty much be from the switches up. Having the recep pipes down low keeps you from having 40 runs up the walls to tie everything together.
> 
> UG is the preferred method in commercial. I can't see any reason it wouldn't be preferred in resi work.
> 
> ...


I will say everything possible should be concealed either in the slab or in the wall. Running conduit in the slab saves time, conduit and wire. Plastic would be a mistake IMO.



idontknow said:


> If you're flush mounting devices, plastic boxes are fine but be aware that the ears on a plastic box are much narrower than those of a metallic box. Knock the hole a little too big and you could end up with the box falling through the hole.
> 
> As a side note, if you do make the hole too big, you can use spray foam to fill in the area behind the box and all around it to effectively glue it in place


Crazy. Use metal boxes and mortar. No special boxes either. Just every day 1900 boxes.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Yes, I am a licensed contractor. What does this have to do with anything? I said that I have no experience with this kind of work. You even said it yourself, we grew up using plastic boxes and romex.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

They make a PVC coated MC cable. I've never used it but I would think that it would be rated for use in CMU construction. Not sure I'd want to trust that the blockies won't bust it up with rebar though.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I guess I'm having a tough time visualizing a cinder-block constructed dwelling without finished interior walls. Seems to me, exposed block is perfect for exposed EMT and all.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

We wired a 6000' residence a couple years ago where ALL the interior walls were exposed block. The prep work didn't take that long. I was there for a few hours, two different days.

I made up all my boxes (I prefer deep masonry boxes) with 3/4" PVC x 32" stubs, ground pigtails and duct taped the openings and conduit ends.

I taped a piece of yellow caution tape on the floor, everywhere I wanted a recep (bottom of the box on top of the second course) and put the box/stub nearby. On a big project with a dozen masons, you have to hump to make sure they don't leave one out. On a simple basement it shouldn't be too hard.

After the third course is complete you can relax for a bit until they get to the fifth course. Then you start humping again making sure you get your sw boxes in place and extend your recep stubs another 32" or so.

Keep all open ends taped up and tape all box openings.

All you are doing is providing a chase from the ceiling or floor joist area to the sw and recep boxes.





> Use metal boxes and mortar. No special boxes either. Just every day 1900 boxes


IMO, the masonry boxes are easier to secure flush in the block. The KO's are deep so the conduit is back in the chase. When you use a 4s box, do you use something like a 1.5" or 2" mud ring?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

220/221 said:


> We wired a 6000' residence a couple years ago where ALL the interior walls were exposed block. The prep work didn't take that long. I was there for a few hours, two different days.
> 
> I made up all my boxes (I prefer deep masonry boxes) with 3/4" PVC x 32" stubs, ground pigtails and duct taped the openings and conduit ends.
> 
> ...


Good advice. I know this is what a couple others was trying to say, you just seem to explain it better. The part that I wasn't getting was teh top plate of teh cinders. Just stub it so I can access it when I start to wire later.:thumbsup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Just stub it so I can access it when I start to wire later


That's it. Put extra stubs at the sw boxes :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> We are ALL ignornant. Just on different subjects.


Speak for yourself. :whistling2:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Speak for yourself. :whistling2:


Peter knows all:notworthy:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Speak for yourself. :whistling2:


Yeah............Some people are ignorant on all subjects.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Speak for yourself. :whistling2:


 Peter " The Great One".:thumbsup:


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

idontknow said:


> We do the same thing though we use 1/2" EMT. Put a 30` kick on the end of a piece of pipe, cut to 16", install couplings or connectors.
> 
> Also you may want to try using a length of jack chain to help fish the voids.


 yes emt does look better and jack chain is your freind with block walls


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Thats right. Its new construction and this is how it's done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 how the hell do you do that


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

ampman said:


> how the hell do you do that


 
Reply with Quote for the first post. Type response. Copy the entire post with quote. 

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other post. Copy the entire new post, now with two quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with three quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with four quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with five quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with six quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with seven quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with eight quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with nine quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with ten quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with eleven quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Copy the entire new post, now with twelve quotes.

Move to the next post, and Reply with Qoute to that one. Type in response, then insert what was copied from the other posts. Press Submit Reply.

I hope that helped you.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

You guys have to be talking about the conduit concealed in walls for places like old schools. No I haven't done this type of job ever.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

If you are using AC90 (BX) with an aluminum sheath, you have to watch it with block walls as some mortar mix will react with the aluminum sheath of the cable and corrode it. 

You could always use wiremold! In a garage though, I would just stick with EMT...done nicely I think it looks kinda cool!


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## cal1947 (Nov 14, 2009)

*retired and wore out*



480sparky said:


> I've been on big jobs where I spent weeks (even months!) chasing brickies, doing nothing but setting boxes and installing 30" chucks of EMT with couplings on them. A resi garage would be a piece of cake, compared to a comm job.
> 
> Just an hour or so of planning, a couple hours installing some PVC on the ground before the slab gets poured, and maybe another half day when the CMUs go in, and you're done! Come back when the lid's on, and start pulling THHN............


 thwn


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

cal1947 said:


> thwn


It's (most of the time) thhn/thwn. And I think we all know what he meant.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> It's (most of the time) thhn/thwn. And I think we all know what he meant.


:sleep1:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Peter D said:


> :sleep1:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


>


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Peter D said:


>


Yeah, that's right. I'm over here trying to be a productive member of electriciantalk.com and you have to come on to my thread, no less, and just dump on it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Yeah, that's right. I'm over here trying to be a productive member of electriciantalk.com and you have to come on to my thread, no less, and just dump on it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.




:sleep1:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

.:no:.:blink:..:jester:.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

220/221 said:


> IMO, the masonry boxes are easier to secure flush in the block. The KO's are deep so the conduit is back in the chase. When you use a 4s box, do you use something like a 1.5" or 2" mud ring?


They are. But I have yet to work for a commercial contractor that did not watch every dime spent. If 1900's will work, they get used. Mud rings are determined by the finished wall. Its in your best interest to set the boxes exactly alike. You should not have to use different raised rings. On a well oiled project, you only have one size to choose from. Plan, Plan, Plan.



ampman said:


> how the hell do you do that


Do you mean the post or the work?



cdnelectrician said:


> You could always use wiremold! In a garage though, I would just stick with EMT...done nicely I think it looks kinda cool!


I would rather have sex with my mother in law than use Wiremold!

EMT exposed does look good if installed with high regard to craftsmanship. In a basement I see no reason not to have exposed conduit. But the OP said he did not like the institutional look.



Magnettica said:


> You guys have to be talking about the conduit concealed in walls for places like old schools. No I haven't done this type of job ever.


New schools too. Most any block or masonry commercial project is done this way. Next time you go to a Costco or Sams, places like that, look at the electrical system. You will see how most all commercial EC's have this in common. Especially look down at the floor under panels. This is electrical construction at its best.


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## merlin1926 (Oct 29, 2010)

Just don't **** the brick layers with full sticks of pvc goin up you'll find out who gets ****ed.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

This thread is old.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

This thread is old.
\

But on the same note, if you do get some mud in your conduits and find out early enough, you can use a strong vinegar wash to soften the plug, maybe removing it. Other alternative, kick the wall down while it is green.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

JohnR said:


> But on the same note, if you do get some mud in your conduits and find out early enough, you can use a strong vinegar wash to soften the plug, maybe removing it. Other alternative, kick the wall down while it is green.


Even if it drys there are ways to resolve it. Not dissolve it, resolve it. I save old fish tapes. When there is an obstruction in the conduit like concrete, I cut a length of fish tape and insert one end into a drill. The other end gets turned over just like normal. Then just squeeze the trigger until it passes through the obstruction. Works like a charm. :thumbsup:


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## Johnpaul (Oct 2, 2008)

I would talk to the owner. If they want it bare I would do the EMT runs along the top of the wall and then drop downs for outlets and switches. It makes it easier for a carpenter to frame in later and sheetrock the walls if the homeowner, current or future, decides to upgrade their garage (or basement). If they decide to do it as part of the project then I would have the carpenter due the framing, then come in and run the wire like a normal job, and then have the carpenter or sheetrock people come in to finish the job. 

What people ask for is not necessarily what they really want. Helps to suggest at least a couple different approaches and let them decide.


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## motorhead (Jun 6, 2012)

any new forums on this subject?


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## motorhead (Jun 6, 2012)

*Wire inside cinder block wall*

I have a house that is 50 + yrs old and has wire through out the house inside the block walls already. I am trying to add an outside GFI in a weather prof box. Can I run wire thru the block walls or do I have to run conduit down the outside walls?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

motorhead said:


> I have a house that is 50 + yrs old and has wire through out the house inside the block walls already. I am trying to add an outside GFI in a weather prof box. Can I run wire thru the block walls or do I have to run conduit down the outside walls?


You can snake inside the cinders,NMC, UF, MC.


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## motorhead (Jun 6, 2012)

Thanks Shockdoc, Do I need any speical conduit, or just the wire?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

motorhead said:


> Thanks Shockdoc, Do I need any speical conduit, or just the wire?


I don't have the book in front of me but is is permissable to snake into the cinders of a block wall, you might even be able to use NM-B.I know UF , MC if damp conditions are present. Boxes are easy, just drill and chip out Gem boxes and either wedge them, extended madison clip them or epoxy then in place.


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## motorhead (Jun 6, 2012)

Thank you very much Shockdoc. Sounds easy enough.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I don't own a code book and even if I did I would ignore it but is is permissable to snake into the cinders of a block wall, you might even be able to use NM-B.I know UF , MC if damp conditions are present. Boxes are easy, just drill and chip out Gem boxes and either wedge them, extended madison clip them or epoxy then in place.


Fixed for ya!:laughing:


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

Sounds easy enough personally I'd go with EMT and just let them know they need to have it painted, if you're good at pipe bending which you should be it'll look nice make sure it's routed neatly though. I myself would not be fishing through cinderblock without seeing and inspecting it for any possible issues that will make my life and my man hours and my stress levels go way up when I can just bang out pipe, if it's a residential living space chances are they're going to paint it...i've done warehouses like this aslong as the pipe work is nice neat and professional after it's painted it looks excellent...


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I don't have the book in front of me but is is permissable to snake into the cinders of a block wall, you might even be able to use NM-B.I know UF , MC if damp conditions are present. Boxes are easy, just drill and chip out Gem boxes and either wedge them, extended madison clip them or epoxy then in place.


Shockdoc is the codebook. When you go to take your exam he actually sits next to you and recites every table, chapter, and formula you may need.


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## bookworm42003 (May 28, 2015)

Reading this old thread...I always wonder about the possibility of moisture inside switch and receptacle boxes mounted within CMU's below ground. If the runs are in EMT or plastic on the face of the wall, this provides more distance from a potential unanticipated drainage plane. Also, how "residential" is a block wall below grade ever going to "feel" anyway?...Unless there is a wood stove in the downstairs, the exposed CMU's are going to keep the space cold, pending exterior polystyrene insulation. If you're really going to make it "residential" felling/looking, then nowadays the interior blocks should have polystyrene insulation with a fire barrier sheathing. To me that further makes runs on the face of the block more ideal. Usually when I'm a residential block structure, and the boxes are set flush to the CMU, this is what I think: We couldn't afford better then and we knew we couldn't afford better later. When I'm in a residential block structure with exposed conduit, I think "They could afford then, but they planned to make it possible to do more later." Also, with the strict air-sealing these days, bringing the conduit/runs closer to the conditioned space, and out of the cold/moisture laden(?) CMU voids, makes more sense for heat loss. Although small, a negligible amount of air will leak around the devices, & travel through the blocks, in all but cases where wire is fished and fire-caulked at the exits of the blocks. If, for whatever reason, the CMU voids have moisture entry, where will that moisture condense if the room is warmed abruptly?...going out on a limb here with an analogy to an exterior single pane window with condensation in the winter. Back to conduit on the wall, if the HO later sheaths the wall in 2" polystyrene, the backsides of the conduit can be sprayfoamed putting all but the clips in the conditioned space. I just wanted to offer these sharing points for consideration by both the contractor for themselves and for steering the client in a direction that is not only visually aesthetic but technically aesthetic. -P.P. ,


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