# residential swimming pool heater



## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Not 100% sure on code but we always gfi protect heater and pretty much everything else with pools.

Texting and Driving


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> Not 100% sure on code but we always gfi protect heater and pretty much everything else with pools.
> 
> Texting and Driving


I feel the same way. Thanx.:thumbsup:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

lighterup said:


> working under 2014 NEC
> 
> 680.9 electric swimming pool water Heaters says nothing with regard
> to gfci protection
> ...


Most pool heater do not have any pumps inside but they have a flow switch inside the heater and some models do have interlock switch so if the pool pump is running then the heater can kick in.

is this heater is straight electric or gas fired heater ? 

and yes put GFCI on that.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I'd GFCI anything in any contact with a pool and don't forget to tie in the bond to the cabinet.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> Most pool heater do not have any pumps inside but they have a flow switch inside the heater and some models do have interlock switch so if the pool pump is running then the heater can kick in.
> 
> is this heater is straight electric or gas fired heater ?
> 
> and yes put GFCI on that.


Thanx for input. It is a 240 volt minimum fuse 40 amps
Maximum OCP is 50 amps.

I am thinking of using a Eaton CH 50 amp GFCI disconnect on 
house and then underground pipe w/ 6 awg thhn in pipe to a
240 volt fused disconnect / fused a 40 amps.

I want the Eaton ch disconnect cause it will also accomodate
a separate 120 volt circuit for the 120 volt 20 amp pool pump
which is cord & plug connected at 5' off pool base . I'm running
separate conduits for the two circuits

What could it hurt to GFCI heater?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I'd GFCI anything in any contact with a pool and don't forget to tie in the bond to the cabinet.


Pool is all vinyl around it .No metal , but thanx for heads up anyhoo.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Thanx for input. It is a 240 volt minimum fuse 40 amps
> Maximum OCP is 50 amps.
> 
> I am thinking of using a Eaton CH 50 amp GFCI disconnect on
> ...



It could sure hurt more if you don't.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

lighterup said:


> Pool is all vinyl around it .No metal , but thanx for heads up anyhoo.


Heater casing needs to be bonded along with pump water lug and any other equipment....blowers,salters,lights...

Texting and Driving


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> Heater casing needs to be bonded along with pump water lug and any other equipment....blowers,salters,lights...
> 
> Texting and Driving


It's above ground pool/ Per my evaluation , everything is plastic (vinyl) 
even heater casing appears that way , but I'll keep my eye on it.

As a matter of fact , I'm goin back to take 2nd look. Thanx


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

You could get one of those intermatic panels with a timer for pump.
Set a post and sleeve and mount a receptacle on the side.









Texting and Driving


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

trentonmakes said:


> You could get one of those intermatic panels with a timer for pump.
> Set a post and sleeve and mount a receptacle on the side.
> 
> 
> ...


How much do those run?


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

We get em for about $135

Texting and Driving


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

trentonmakes said:


> We get em for about $135
> 
> Texting and Driving



:thumbsup:

I like the looks of that!


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

lighterup said:


> It's above ground pool/ Per my evaluation , everything is plastic (vinyl)
> even heater casing appears that way , but I'll keep my eye on it.
> 
> As a matter of fact , I'm goin back to take 2nd look. Thanx


I went back and looked at all the products to verify metal or vinyl.
the supports on the pool seem harder than vinyl but I cannot tell
what the material is. If it needs bonding , wouldn't there be lugs on each support as you walked the circumference of the pool...would see lugs
maybe along the base of each one..no?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> You could get one of those intermatic panels with a timer for pump.
> Set a post and sleeve and mount a receptacle on the side.
> 
> 
> ...


I like that. I'm gonna check that out.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> I went back and looked at all the products to verify metal or vinyl.
> the supports on the pool seem harder than vinyl but I cannot tell
> what the material is. If it needs bonding , wouldn't there be lugs on each support as you walked the circumference of the pool...would see lugs
> maybe along the base of each one..no?



Pool manufacturers don't give you anything they make you work for it, you need to look around the base ring that the sidewall engages in for tabs to bolt on to.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

You have to put the lugs on...

Above or inground?
I dunno about above grounds but guessing you could drill a hole and use nut n bolt for the lug....i would run 4 tails and the 360 grid, but honestly no idea on above ground pools.

Inground Im guessing your looking at the coping? They usually shoot it with a nail gun and you would see studs with a nut every couple feet.

I just slap a lug on one of those studs 

Texting and Driving


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

That white trim around pool is the coping. I think its aliluminum, but not sure. Definitely metal.









Texting and Driving


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> You have to put the lugs on...
> 
> Above or inground?
> I dunno about above grounds but guessing you could drill a hole and use nut n bolt for the lug....i would run 4 tails and the 360 grid, but honestly no idea on above ground pools.
> ...


The last time I did any EC work for a pool it was in ground. The pool 
company had a metal grid all around it to be concrete slab around
the pool. I ran # 8 bare all around that grid and crimped the #8's to
each grid as it went around the pool . Ran the # 8 to my outdoor
panel where the pool pump was at. Bonded it all together there.

This one is above ground. I see the bonding lug on the heater chassis 
but I see nothing on the pool structure which is vinyl between the 
rigid supports. 

I just submitted the bid to include adding a lug on each support
and running # 8 in 1 continuous run all around it from lug to lug and
then back to the ground bar on the outdoor panel.

P.S. I think this might be that material you speak of (coping)


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

No its not coping, thats just the supports. I would do 4 tails instead of each support then attach to your 360 grid. 
But again i know nothing about above ground, im thinking of the 4 tails on cement pool attached to the rebar.

The last one you did, inground, sounds like a metal pool.
Same thing, i drill 4 holes too attach lugs and tails to 360 grid.Then run my 360 under all those metal support straps of course half off em are buried! Lol

Bonding (inground], you only need too bond any metal within 5ft of pool, the earth, the water, equipment and any lights.

Is there a water lug on the piping by the pump and a lug on the pump!? You may need to put one in.

FYI
You also need an outlet within 20ft of the pool. Keep that in mind!

Texting and Driving


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> No its not coping, thats just the supports. I would do 4 tails instead of each support then attach to your 360 grid.
> But again i know nothing about above ground, im thinking of the 4 tails on cement pool attached to the rebar.
> 
> The last one you did, inground, sounds like a metal pool.
> ...


The pump has no metal on casing or lug . the pump piping is a plastic
flex / no metal.

I do have the gfci receptacle on the corner of the house. Made it by 1'/
it's 19' from the nearest pool edge.


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## damprobe (Aug 25, 2017)

Curious why you guys run your equi bond back to panels? Is it a local inspection thing?

I rarely do pools and always thought the the equi was to eliminate differences in voltage potential not ground the pool - although in the case of a vinyl pool it does merit 'grounding'. Similar to the reason they don't want you bonding to a double insulated pump (except for leaving a bond wire nearby for any future motor replacement) and let the EGC do that job. 

Though I think for any kind of pool they still want the water 'bonded' by means of anything with 9 sq.in. of conductive metal in direct contact with water (ladder, wet-niche, etc.)


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

damprobe said:


> Curious why you guys run your equi bond back to panels? Is it a local inspection thing?
> 
> I rarely do pools and always thought the the equi was to eliminate differences in voltage potential not ground the pool - although in the case of a vinyl pool it does merit 'grounding'. Similar to the reason they don't want you bonding to a double insulated pump (except for leaving a bond wire nearby for any future motor replacement) and let the EGC do that job.
> 
> Though I think for any kind of pool they still want the water 'bonded' by means of anything with 9 sq.in. of conductive metal in direct contact with water (ladder, wet-niche, etc.)


We dont bring it too the panel.
But, i believe they all make it back to the panel via the deck box.
I guess in that respect it is like a redundant ground.

ANSWERE THE QUESTION STEVIE!


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> No its not coping, thats just the supports. I would do 4 tails instead of each support then attach to your 360 grid.
> But again i know nothing about above ground, im thinking of the 4 tails on cement pool attached to the rebar.
> 
> The last one you did, inground, sounds like a metal pool.
> ...


I just thought I would *update* all interested parties..

I went to building department and asked what they wanted and here is what I ended up doing..

This is a round above ground pool . 
There is a 120 volt 15 amp circulating pump with a grounding/bonding lug
attached to the motor casing up & underneath it.
There is a 240 volt / 40 amp electric heating unit.

The pool sides were vinyl and the supports were coated with a non 
conductive type of paint(?:001_huh 
(Building department inspector said more & more pools are coming this
way now.)

I had to order a skimmer grounding/bonding lug kit that I installed on 
the skimmer. It had a steel plate that sits inside the skimmer in the
water to ground the water in the pool.

I had to get about 130' #8 bare solid CU , dig a few inches around 
the entire pool and run it continuously starting from the skimmer
all the way around the pool , through the pool pump bonding lug 
then through the heater bonding lug , then up into my CH outdoor
panel grounding bar.

I set the CH 240 volt 50 amp NEMA 3R panel about 6' away from
pool on treated lumber board I made with 4x4 posts and 1x6's.

I fed an outdoor single yoke outlet receptacle / bubble cover for 
the 15 amp pump to plug into and a 240 volt 60 amp disco with 
40 amp fuses in it for the heater (with sealtight whip to unit).

I fed the panel @ 60 amps from indoor main.
1-1/4" pvc Pipe and wire #6's x 4 (I had a 500' reel of #6 thhn in 
stock) for a 70' run from indoor panel to outdoor panel.

Passed inspection. Got paid. Going to California to see in laws and
have some fun at a Hukelau and to the Monterey wharf for sea food. 
BTW that thread about writing off vacations has me thinking now:notworthy:


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Non conductive paint huh?
What if it chips or peels? Lol

So basicly it seems the same as in ground pools.

Glad to hear it passed

We do same board for jandy panels but use 2x12x10
Crappy pic but i deleted all the others









ANSWERE THE QUESTION STEVIE!


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

trentonmakes said:


> Non conductive paint huh?
> What if it chips or peels? Lol
> 
> So basicly it seems the same as in ground pools.
> ...


I don't know if its paint or some kind of coating. 
Building official said pool manufacturers are putting
it on the supports specifically to avoid conductivity issues.

Nothing about the pool itself was conductive to include the ladder.
They want the ground ring to prevent any issues coming from under ground/pool.

Said they just had an issue a few towns over where a string of 
older POCO ground rods (at the base of each pole) rotted out and
someone who owned a nearby above ground swimming pool was
getting a jolt when they stuck their feet into the water.
The EC could not figure out why and somehow it was discovered
that the POCO ground was leaking voltage into the neighborhood
earth.
P.S. We build the exact same outdoor treated lumber board!


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## damprobe (Aug 25, 2017)

lighterup said:


> I just thought I would *update* all interested parties..
> 
> I went to building department and asked what they wanted and here is what I ended up doing...



Good info, thanks for passing along. _(no GFCI on pump though?)_


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

damprobe said:


> Good info, thanks for passing along. _(no GFCI on pump though?)_


Oh ...yes definitely . Panel was listed for GE breakers so I protected 
the pump outlet with THQL 120 volt 15 amp GFCI breaker.:thumbsup:


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