# potential load cal



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I'm not sure I understand the question? You want to know how much a circuit is rated for?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

tie003uk said:


> on one circuit of recepticals how do you measure the full potentail load, is it full load for the first receptical then half for the next then quarter for the rest?


For load calculations only, each rec. is counted as 180 VA. Each double duplex is 360 VA


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> For load calculations only, each rec. is counted as 180 VA. Each double duplex is 360 VA


sorry coming from the uk to usa are you calling a double duplex 2 rec in a 2 gang box?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> sorry coming from the uk to usa are you calling a double duplex 2 rec in a 2 gang box?


Yeah that would be 360va.


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

thanks


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Is this a commercial application?


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

nah just a question. for load on lights you just add them up but for recepticals there is no load conected at this time to measure, so was just asking. i can remember one of my bosses saying back in england that to cal the full load of a rec circuit you have full load at the first rec then half at the next then i forget the rest and there is a something if you have a fused spur on the line and all that good stuff that you might not understand with you being in the usa.thanks


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

If its a residence, then there is no limit to the amount of recepts. you can put on a circuit. You just know how many general purpose circuits are required by the load calc for the whole house.


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

as a general rule we only put 12 rec on a 100ft branch in uk and use 2.5mm cable which would be 12gauge wire here in the usa and we also wire the rec in a loop from service panel and then from the last rec return to the service


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> as a general rule we only put 12 rec on a 100ft branch in uk and use 2.5mm cable which would be 12gauge wire here in the usa and we also wire the rec in a loop from service panel and then from the last rec return to the service


Gotcha. Yeah, I don't put 30 on a circuit, It just depends on what I feel like doing that day.


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

i just added 4 two bulb lights to a receptical circuit and was concerned about overload and stress on the cable.

oh and one more for you why is it ok to conect neutral and ground together at the service but not ok at the fixture?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Objectional current.You would create a parallel path to ground. Metal parts of the fixture aren't allowed to carry current.


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

but they are always going to be carrying the neutral into the ground even if its not conected at the fixure because its conected together at the service.

if you have old wire with no gorund you have to conect a bonding jumper to neutral.


so going back to my first question whats the load on the rec's. i can't just add 12 15A rec together its not done like that.how and what?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

You should never hook a "jumper" from a neutral. It creates a parallel path. There is no current on the metal part of the fixture b/c it is bonded at the service.

As far as the load, for commercial it 180 va per recept. For residential you need to perform a load calc to determine the minimum number of circuits. There is no max recepts per circuit in residential .


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

thats just nutts.....

forgive me as i am getting to know how they do things over here and i am apply for a union job and they are giving me training


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Potential load cal*



tie003uk said:


> i just added 4 two bulb lights to a receptical circuit and was concerned about overload and stress on the cable.
> 
> oh and one more for you why is it ok to conect neutral and ground together at the service but not ok at the fixture?


If you connect the neutral, which IS a circuit conductor, to the equipment ground, beyond the service, the fixture can also be a parallel path of circuit current. If a person happens to be working on that fixture, they can become a parallel path of circuit current, as well. Not good.


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

as i said before if you have a circuit with only hot and neutral and no ground you have to conect neutral to ground to provide some form of protection


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> as i said before if you have a circuit with only hot and neutral and no ground you have to conect neutral to ground to provide some form of protection


That is bad. You can become part of the path if you do this. You aren't protecting anything, you make it worse.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

tie003uk said:


> as i said before if you have a circuit with only hot and neutral and no ground you have to conect neutral to ground to provide some form of protection


 
says who??????? that's wrong


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> as i said before if you have a circuit with only hot and neutral and no ground you have to conect neutral to ground to provide some form of protection


there is no neutral in a two wire circuit, just hot and ground.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> i just added 4 two bulb lights


 Their called "lamps" not bulbs...bulbs are what you put in the ground.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> but they are always going to be carrying the neutral into the ground even if its not conected at the fixure because its conected together at the service.
> 
> if you have old wire with no gorund you have to conect a bonding jumper to neutral.
> 
> ...


 I would honestly sugtgest an apprenticeship program,prehaps through the IEC or the union; get a job over here being an apprentice/helper and the comnay should pay your way through school. You need to pick up some theory.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Neutral to ground*



tie003uk said:


> as i said before if you have a circuit with only hot and neutral and no ground you have to conect neutral to ground to provide some form of protection


You may have said it...but it is not safe.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> there is no neutral in a two wire circuit, just hot and ground.


Hot and ground*ed*, not hot and ground


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Their called "lamps" not bulbs...bulbs are what you put in the ground.


 
i know they are called lamps.....****er


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> i know they are called lamps.....****er


 Easy big guy! That was ground in to my head when I was young sapling in the trade...


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Easy big guy! That was ground in to my head when I was young sapling in the trade...


 yep me too....i'm going through the union at the moment but being out of the trade for 5yrs and not using the 10yr old college stuff as much on site you tend to forget stuff 15yrs on.


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## tie003uk (Nov 7, 2009)

you know i did 2yrs of college in the uk on electrical....and it seams like i wasted my time sometimes when i can't remember half of it. it was just different comeing here and trying to learn the diffs, even getting to know things as simple as the wire gauge and how you have 2 feeders N AND ground into the service as the uk has only a live(hot), neutral and ground as a 230V and this voltage to all power points of the house. i feel like a dumb ass sometimes asking simple questions but you just gotta ask them.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

tie003uk said:


> you know i did 2yrs of college in the uk on electrical....and it seams like i wasted my time sometimes when i can't remember half of it. it was just different comeing here and trying to learn the diffs, even getting to know things as simple as the wire gauge and how you have 2 feeders N AND ground into the service as the uk has only a live(hot), neutral and ground as a 230V and this voltage to all power points of the house. i feel like a dumb ass sometimes asking simple questions but you just gotta ask them.


 Granted most US sparkies would be lost going to Europe and working the trade, so don't feel so lost.


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