# Telecommunications Apprenticeship Program



## brian john

I would have to ask WHY telecommunications. Bite the bullet and become an electrician. Better pay, better job, electricians do telecommunications work in this area. Telecommunication men cannot do electric work.


----------



## Frasbee

brian john said:


> I would have to ask WHY telecommunications. Bite the bullet and become an electrician. Better pay, better job, electricians do telecommunications work in this area. Telecommunication men cannot do electric work.


Because 98's telecommunications apprenticeship accepts applicants every month, unlike the electrician's apprenticeship which accepts applicants for only 2 weeks in April out of the year.

http://www.atei98.org/applications.html


----------



## brian john

Frasbee said:


> Because 98's telecommunications apprenticeship accepts applicants every month, unlike the electrician's apprenticeship which accepts applicants for only 2 weeks in April out of the year.
> 
> http://www.atei98.org/applications.html


That’s because after they see what a dead end job it is, they quit and get a real job as an electrician.:icon_wink:


----------



## Frasbee

brian john said:


> That’s because after they see what a dead end job it is, they quit and get a real job as an electrician.:icon_wink:


What do telcom union boys make?

Can't be that bad compared to non-union electricians.


----------



## Edrick

I'm still waiting for a boneified electrician to impress me, he'll not even impress but not make me go wtf was he thinking? When it comes to telecom work. Mind you there are electricians who specialize in data and do a heck of a job at it. But the ones who are full time electricians and fly by night telecom installers those are the ones.


----------



## AdamG87

I respect your opinion but why call it a dead end career? I'm just looking for some reasoning behind it. The pay rates aren't really that bad. The telecom technology is constantly being upgraded and there are alot less telecom workers on the books. From what I heard, alot of actual electricians are out of work and have been for a while. Thats what influenced my decision.


----------



## brian john

AdamG87 said:


> I respect your opinion but why call it a dead end career? I'm just looking for some reasoning behind it. The pay rates aren't really that bad. The telecom technology is constantly being upgraded and there are alot less telecom workers on the books. From what I heard, alot of actual electricians are out of work and have been for a while. Thats what influenced my decision.


Repetitious, boring, in many areas 99% of the work is completed by semi skilled, with one finish guy, DID I SAY BORING..................And if you want to do telecommunications work, become an electrician and specialize. I’d bet better money and you have a real career.

Now I cannot speak for other areas but around here telecomm workers make less than electricians. Ask yourself WHY?


----------



## Frasbee

AdamG87 said:


> I respect your opinion but why call it a dead end career? I'm just looking for some reasoning behind it. The pay rates aren't really that bad. The telecom technology is constantly being upgraded and there are alot less telecom workers on the books. From what I heard, alot of actual electricians are out of work and have been for a while. Thats what influenced my decision.


What's journeyman scale for a union telcom guy here in Philly?


----------



## AdamG87

From what I've heard, I believe its around $30/hr.


----------



## mikeh32

AdamG87 said:


> From what I've heard, I believe its around $30/hr.


I make more then that. 2 bucks less then an a card, and half the work. though it involves a lot more thinking. 

I have to head to work, but shoot me any questions you have, and i can help you out. 

I am currently a c card apprentice


----------



## brian john

mikeh32 said:


> I make more then that. 2 bucks less then an a card, and half the work. though it involves a lot more thinking.


Morer thinking is it donuts or a bear claw today. You definetly have never done or do not understand what QUALIFIED electrician do.



> I am currently a c card apprentice


Have you ever wondered why all your life A means excellent

A on the report card.
Class A is the best

While a C on the report card is average to below average.

And call a woman a "C" and see what happens:no:


----------



## AdamG87

haha, brian john, i'm starting to get the feeling that you have a major dislike for telecom and anyone who does it. To be honest, the reason I picked it was because is seemed more in line with what I'm interested in and what I enjoy doing. I understand if it seems boring or mundane to you, but I don't really see it that way.

Thanks for the responses by the way! :thumbsup:

mikeh, I will shoot you a message with a few questions when I get off of work.


----------



## SpanishMilyon

Adam,

I just got the letter as well, but I didn't receive a sample guide for the aptitude test. Where can I get that from?

Thanks!

-Emily


----------



## AdamG87

I wasn't sure if you could post links on the forum so I just sent it in a message to you. On the left side of the page in the section with a blue background, you should see the sample questions for math and reading. If you have any problems with the link, let me know.

If I can help with any of the math portion, I'd be more then happy too.


----------



## Frasbee

AdamG87 said:


> From what I've heard, I believe its around $30/hr.


Even if it were a bit less.

A non-union "electrician" makes anywhere between $16-$35 around here. And it definitely errs towards the lower end for most guys.

Congratulations Adam. If I was going to stay in Philadelphia longer I would've applied to 98's telcom. Getting in is the hardest part.


----------



## brian john

AdamG87 said:


> haha, brian john, i'm starting to get the feeling that you have a major dislike for telecom and anyone who does it.
> mikeh, I will shoot you a message with a few questions when I get off of work.


I am just having fun with the topic. Many guys that left high school with me and did telecom changed field because of the boredom.


----------



## AdamG87

I do appreciate the input! 

You actually made me second guess myself there for a minute, haha


----------



## mikeh32

if you a cards are so great.... why are you all out of work, and the c cards are not?

just wondering


----------



## brian john

AdamG87 said:


> I do appreciate the input!
> 
> You actually made me second guess myself there for a minute, haha


 
The job market encompasses all types and thank goodness not everyone wants to be an electrician.

A guy I use to work with, had a neighbor that gave his son a used honey bucket (septic truck). The kid drove it on summer break between freshmen and sophomore years in college. Next summer he bought a 2nd truck, he drove one and his employee drove the other. That fall he hired a 2nd full time driver. The kid now owns a fleet of these trucks, making money pumping poop...There is money in anything, and somebody somewhere will do it, if you like it go for it.

Me I watch those guys and say NOT ME.


----------



## Jlarson

Brian stop hating on the telecom guys, you know they are a sensitive bunch. :laughing:


----------



## brian john

mikeh32 said:


> if you a cards are so great.... why are you all out of work, and the c cards are not?
> 
> just wondering


Me out of work, in 40 years I have missed one day. I employee 20 union electricians and last I looked they were working, and making more than a “C” card.


----------



## brian john

Jlarson said:


> Brian stop hating on the telecom guys, you know they are a sensitive bunch. :laughing:


I am just having fun. In something I think is ridiculous a special card for telecomm.


----------



## cabletie

brian john said:


> I am just having fun. In something I think is ridiculous a special card for telecomm.


I can’t believe you being a union contractor would not support different cards. Why would you not want to hire guys to do the teledata at a reduced rate? Or sub it out to a teledata company. We have 3 different rates (cards) in our local, and would think that every contractor would love to take advantage of it. Manufactures charge different prices for a 30a. 250v. single phase disconnect compared to a 30a 600v three phase disconnect, even though there isn't that big a difference in material. I think contractors should also charge accordingly. 23 to 29 years ago my old non-union boss would pay me the same $9.00 an hour if I was working in a plant adding product lines or in a house adding paddle fans (he really didn't do residential). I definitely did not think that was right, Paying residential scale for industrial work.


----------



## brian john

cabletie said:


> I can’t believe you being a union contractor would not support different cards. Why would you not want to hire guys to do the teledata at a reduced rate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I? My employees are all long term employees, many have 15 plus years with me. I'll keep them busy any way I can.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not even know if my local has "C" cards, all the jobs I have been on are manned by open shops employing basically laborers with one knowledgeable man. Before you condemn this the jobs look very neat and the customers seem pleased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely did not think that was right, Paying residential scale for industrial work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He did not pay you residential scale he paid you a sum of money agreed upon between him and you. He could make money at that rate and you had the option of quitting, if you felt the money was wrong.
Click to expand...


----------



## Frasbee

brian john said:


> Why would I? My employees are all long term employees, many have 15 plus years with me. I'll keep them busy any way I can.


I know this is a bit off topic, but my current employer, once I informed them I couldn't collect unemployment (at that time), put me to work ASAP, even though they didn't really need me for a few of those 1 day projects.

They really seem to bend over backwards for their guys, it actually makes me feel uncomfortable coming from a company that threatened lay offs near every day, for over a year, for no reason.


----------



## mikeh32

in chicago, all c cards are working, a cards not so much. b cards are pretty much done with. 

there is a lot out here that c cards do, that a can not. fiber, fire alarms, security systems. It has a lot to do with at&t/bell also being HQ'd here too. 

But C cards make about 2-4 bucks less, and do much less work. though its a lot more detailed. 

I have met many many many a cards that could punch down a 25/50/100 pair to save there lives, let alone pull and terminate fiber. 

there is a lot more to a c card then just telephones


----------



## cabletie

> Why would I? My employees are all long term employees, many have 15 plus years with me. I'll keep them busy any way I can.


That is very commendable. I myself have worked for two employers since I have gotten in (one for 2 week shorty) with, 7 months missed in 23 years. I also appreciate that my boss keeps me busy any way he can, but he also subs his teledata work out to stay competitive. We do basics on small jobs and the rest goes to subs with well trained guys.


> He did not pay you residential scale he paid you a sum of money agreed upon between him and you. He could make money at that rate and you had the option of quitting, if you felt the money was wrong.


which I did after a while when I found out that guys with 20 years more experience than me were only getting $5.00 more an hour with no retirement. I got in on a B card making $2.00 more an hour ringing door bells doing residential than what he was paying for doing sub-station work for the huge new plant he just wired! I did my time went through all the programs and believe that all the different rates serve a good purpose. If he wishes to take it as far as a teledata ticket that is fine. Your encouragement to go farther is also good. Hopefully his work in the teledata field will help improve market share while earning a living.


----------



## brian john

mikeh32 said:


> I have met many many many a cards that could punch down a 25/50/100 pair to save there lives, let alone pull and terminate fiber.
> 
> there is a lot more to a c card then just telephones


Oh please, get real....A little OJT and they are working side by side.


This work we do is not magic. A large percentage of it can be performed by semi skilled laborers.

Two of my daughters knuckled headed friends from high school became doctors. Telcomm work is not quite as difficult as heart surgery so, I’d bet most electricians could learn how to to telecom work. And I’d bet long before a telcomm worker could perform a minimum of electric work.


----------



## brian john

cabletie said:


> B card.



What does a “B” card worker do?


----------



## cabletie

B book is residential, small commercial. There is a dollar amount on the electrical contract that separates B from A. You could do a large strip mall with B (each store is a different contract) and do the anchor store like a home depot with A. In that situation the contractor might use A forman and B workers for the smaller stores, but he could use any mix he wants. They just did half the waterfront in Long Branch with condos and restaurants; they took the property with eminent domain. All condos were A forman and B wireman. Not sure what the stores were. I think they are doing away with it, and now it will become ce/cw. probably half our local went through the B program.


----------



## brian john

cabletie said:


> B book is residential, small commercial. .



Thank you, we have an “R” grade here; residential, though few contractors do residential work.


----------



## lefleuron

The only ones who seam to think telephone guys are "highly trained, special people" are other telephone guys. I think the schooling is about 6 weeks or something like that- I could wrong though.

A job is a job, and most people need one.

But to be honest, don't expect to be treated as "highly trained" around electricians. Some of them ridicule our in house "Data" guys- these three have real names, but I have no idea what they actually are.

People just call them "Sue, Sarah and Sally". Its really not nice, but it is what it is. 

Those three, and the guy cleaning puke off a bus both have jobs- I wouldn't want their jobs though. That's just me, and I am just saying...


----------



## mikeh32

c card in the ibew is 4 years.... not 6 weeks. 

never really got why a cards hate c cards.


----------



## cdnelectrician

I worked in telecom and the inside work was pretty boring....the outside work was fun chasing troubles on wet cables etc. I decided that electrical was a better choice and I am glad I did it, there is no money in comm work. I still do comm stuff at work once in awhile because most electricians have no clue how to do it.


----------



## Detroit 58

heres a question:
I interview for telecom and residential in a cpl weeks. I have a cpl friends that work inside wiremen, which is what i wanted and they both told me to try and get the telecom for now and then after a year try and switch to inside wiremen program. have you heard of this before and if so is going the route of telecom the best option?

(from looking at the posts telecom = c card, residential = b card, and inside wiremen= a card, correct me if I'm wrong) this all relates to what each group is qualified to do and pay rate...

Thanks


----------



## brian john

Detroit,

Yes you turn a 5 year apprenticeship into a 8-10 year program, working below wage for an additional 3-5 years.


----------



## mikeh32

I know our b-card devision was just closed completely. Well, not just but its gone. 

as for pay, I make about $2 bucks less then an A card


----------

