# Pulling through 14.4kv live



## gamer (Sep 9, 2014)

Hey. I was asked by Fm to pull secondaries through 14.4 kv to 208v xmr live. Anyone done this before? Any safety tips would be nice.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

gamer said:


> Hey. I was asked by Fm to pull secondaries through 14.4 kv to 208v xmr live. Anyone done this before? Any safety tips would be nice.


*14.4 KV ???*

Hummm .,, no way in hell if this is a convetail dry transfomer type .,, 

someone did lost the ball on that.

I would just shut the primary source first before you fool around this kind of crap. 

there is basically zero margin of error on that kind of voltage level. 

I done alot of MV works but ya need proper tools to do this.


----------



## gamer (Sep 9, 2014)

It's a oil insulated type, padmount. He said they would put a blanket over terminals.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

gamer said:


> Hey. I was asked by Fm to pull secondaries through 14.4 kv to 208v xmr live. Anyone done this before? Any safety tips would be nice.


Are you qualified to work on the level of voltage? Here in the states, you shouldn't get near that without training. I was asked to vacuum out a live 14.4kV transformer once long ago. I didn't just say no, I pulled the manufacturers manual, and read the procedure to the boss that clearly stated you could not enter the transformer live, couldn't remove panels from the primary compartment live. He was the typical "I know everything " boss that didn't know squat. I raised enough hell that he dropped it. I was worried he would try to BS someone else. At the end of the day, I was willing to go home for good if need be. Everyone on that kind of pull is in danger, not just the guy at the transformer.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

gamer said:


> It's a oil insulated type, padmount. He said they would put a blanket over terminals.


Do that company did have some type of training to dealt with that kind of voltage ?

a blanket may do a squat.,, sorry be harsh but 14.4 KV is something ya dont fool around with it. 

The Canada safety dept will be instering on your sistuation on that voltage level.

Is that padmount is POCO side or customer owned transfomer ?? 

if that is on POCO side .,, just stay the heck out of that!!!


----------



## gamer (Sep 9, 2014)

No Training... not even sure we have a company standard procedure for it thats why I am looking for some info. I think the xmer is POCO, consumer starts after that termination if i recall correctly.

I think there is going to be representative of a sub contractor for POCO on site when we pull in. Pretty sure we need someone from POCO to open it for us.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

gamer said:


> No Training... not even sure we have a company standard procedure for it thats why I am looking for some info. I think the xmer is POCO, consumer starts after that termination if i recall correctly.
> 
> I think there is going to be representative of a sub contractor for POCO on site when we pull in. Pretty sure we need someone from POCO to open it for us.


Ahhh I see.,,

no training on that part.,, I am sure there is something in the safety dept in your country do have some type of guideline to follow.

However the POCO will basically turn that transfomer off or boot it off ( make it safe ) depending on what their plan is. 

if that is single transfomer to feed that customer location the chance they will just deengerized it by boot it off or turn the fuse off at the riser one of two. which that is the SOP on the POCO part.

plan ahead with POCO for details and meeting to set up a plan to deal with it. 

that one reason why most POCO rather turn the transfomer off in first place due the arc flash is pretty insane at transfomer location. I have see it blasted few time before and I just saw one not too long ago not far where I am standing.


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

gamer said:


> It's a oil insulated type, padmount. He said they would put a blanket over terminals.


Who is putting "a blanket" over the terminals? If it isn't someone from the Utility, I wouldn't go near it with a 10' pole.. And that might be just long enough..

No training? No procedure for working around live 14.4 kv? Has the FM read or know anything of Z462 or know about Arc Flash? Limits of approach? If it is a pad mount, you'll be underneath the bushings..

Why can't this transformer be shutdown? Secondary feeder replacement? IMO it's too big of a risk that I'm betting no one can justify keeping it energized...

Any job can be done, until something goes sideways, something happens or someone gets hurt.. Then, as you're sitting in a courtroom, you'll be able to see "who told who what was ok to do.." I believe the term you'd be looking for is "hung out to dry" or "guilty as charged your honor"...


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Medium voltage feeders MUST be treated with total respect.

They can be only touched when they are cold.

After any work is completed, all elements need to be megged// hi-potted.

Only THEN can you think about re-energizing conductors.


----------



## circuitman1 (Mar 14, 2013)

they would either shut it off or i would walk away.like other's have said 14.4 is nothing to mess with. so it's going to inconvience them,i rather do that than go home in a box!i like to see my family when i go home.let us know how it goes!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

What's OSHA got to say about that?


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

joebanana said:


> What's OSHA got to say about that?


Joe.,, 

The OP is from Canada so there is a Canadain verison of OSHA so the Dept of Safety and Labour is the one if I recall it correct. 

I think their rules is simauir to the OSHA.


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

frenchelectrican said:


> Joe.,,
> 
> The OP is from Canada so there is a Canadain verison of OSHA so the Dept of Safety and Labour is the one if I recall it correct.
> 
> I think their rules is simauir to the OSHA.


Yeah.....I wasn't sure what youz guyz called it either, but I figured there's gotta be a similar entity up there.
In any case, what are they planning on telling the insurance/bond company if it doesn't work out so well?
Voltages that high will reach out and touch you.
I would drag up first, that's just nutso.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Yeah.....I wasn't sure what youz guyz called it either, but I figured there's gotta be a similar entity up there.
> In any case, what are they planning on telling the insurance/bond company if it doesn't work out so well?
> Voltages that high will reach out and touch you.
> I would drag up first, that's just nutso.


I agree with that Joe.,,

I been wonding about that related to the insurance/bond company and if anything go heckva mess they will be not too thrilled with it.


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

gamer said:


> Hey. I was asked by Fm to pull secondaries through 14.4 kv to 208v xmr live. Anyone done this before? *Any safety tips would be nice*.


Don't do it!!!!


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Have the POCO verify it is DEAD & they put & leave their shorting cables on it until you are finished & have cleared the area.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Just worked a paramount fault that started as a failed loadbreak: The blast vaporized most of the 1/8" steel divider between high and low sides and the doors where blown almost all the way off. Blankets wouldn't have done chit. 

There's absolutely no way I'd agree to pull through a hot transformer.


----------



## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

Nope. Unless your company has a written procedure on this and everyone involved is properly trained on that procedure, this is exactly the sort of thing the law that allows you to refuse unsafe work is written for. You aren't even allowed to plug buckets into live MCC cubicles at 600V in the mills around here any more.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Big John said:


> Just worked a paramount fault that started as a failed loadbreak: The blast vaporized most of the 1/8" steel divider between high and low sides and the doors where blown almost all the way off.* Blankets wouldn't have done chit. *
> 
> There's absolutely no way I'd agree to pull through a hot transformer.


Flying carpet, anyone ?


----------



## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

gamer said:


> It's a oil insulated type, padmount. He said they would put a blanket over terminals.


Neither Fortis or Atco will allow anyone inside their transformer unless it is safe.


----------



## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

If something goes wrong, you will look like a smoking piece of bacon, with a melted lineman's blanket glued to it.

Shut it off.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Big John said:


> Just worked a paramount fault that started as a failed loadbreak: The blast vaporized most of the 1/8" steel divider between high and low sides and the doors where blown almost all the way off. Blankets wouldn't have done chit.
> 
> There's absolutely no way I'd agree to pull through a hot transformer.


I agree with you and if you did read on #7 posting I did mention that time I was replying to the forum in here and I was only 20 meters away from the transfomer and when it failed ( isolator switch on padmount transfomer ) and just really blew it apart and it was loud and can see arc flash there so we were working near by and myself and couple guys with me and we were aware of arc flash on that. that was a 300 KVA transfomer with 14.4 KV primary.


----------



## gamer (Sep 9, 2014)

So we did the pull today, the Pocos sub guys did all the stuff in the pad and past the opening of the door. We got to sit a way back and pull off the reels. They had a rubber blanket they draped over the exposed secondary terminals and the stress cones isolated them from the high side. They used a hot stick to reach into the pit and they had a 'bazooka', it was a 4' chunk of flex with some plastic ends that was used to guide wires into the pipe.

Thanks for all the replies. I guess this is a good lesson for me not to jump to conclusions.


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Okay...I'm not as savvy at this web sight linking gadgetry as most of 
you guys are , but I recently read a story about a guy getting lit up
and then died in ER because he also was..
* working on a high voltage area
* inadequate training
* no space suit
The tool he was using touched (1) ..that's right..ONE strand that was 
a stray hanging off a lug..

The only way I know how to direct those interested is to direct you to
google "Thompson Electric" / Cuyahoga Falls Ohio and the story is
there.

OP I would freaking walk before I relied on the bosses blanket.
Just Sayin.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Please let me know if the link is broke...
https://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2002/01-1544.html


----------



## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Bird dog said:


> Please let me know if the link is broke...
> https://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2002/01-1544.html


Link is fine :thumbsup: ... I'm not sure if it's broke, but I could throw in a few bucks, or we could set up a go fund me page :jester:


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Okay...I'm not as savvy at this web sight linking gadgetry as most of
> you guys are , but I recently read a story about a guy getting lit up
> and then died in ER because he also was..
> * working on a high voltage area
> ...



When looking up Thompson Electric it seems they have had more than one similar fatality. 

It's a wonder they are still in business.


----------

