# That scumbag foreman..



## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

*Bold for the key points..*

I'd like to think I'm a pretty upbeat guy. I really feel strongly that among other things, a good attitude is a fundamental part of being pretty much anything worth being.

In contrast, I've got the cliche low life foreman (who also plays the role of my journeyman) that gets away with showing up late every day, falsifying time cards, stealing company materials, treating me like a dog despite my relentless kindness etc. etc.

Lately it's really been eating at me that he seems to get away with murder doing all the things that constitute an utter low life while collecting a small fortune in wages.

My contractor on the other hand is outstanding, it's a multi generational business and they really do exemplify the best parts of a family atmosphere while largely omitting the bad.

*I find myself every day debating whether or not I need to be more outspoken about the tremendously shady behavior occurring just outside their purview VS keeping my head down and continuing to be the best electrician I can be without bothering them.*

With either decision my motivation is to be as good to my employer as they are to me. It's just this foreman and I down here a good distance from the shop and as such little to no effort is made to keep tabs on us.

This has been over the course of about 18 months, maybe I've let it go to my head to the extent that I'm not seeing something obvious.

*I know many of you have been in similar situations, maybe you've got some insight or a POV that hasn't occurred to me that you'd be willing to share?*

Please forgive the whiny undertones of this post.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Just keep working hard and keep your mouth shut. These things seem to get resolved on their own. If he is doing all these things sooner or later it will happen.
Don't get a bad name in the local.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

John Valdes said:


> Just keep working hard and keep your mouth shut. These things seem to get resolved on their own. If he is doing all these things sooner or later it will happen.
> Don't get a bad name in the local.


Thanks John, I appreciate your (as usual) timely response. Maybe just being able to let this out in relative confidence can get me through another 18 months until my exam.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Being the squeaky wheel in my experience is has always backfired on to me and the culprit is left unharmed. 
If you can tough it out do so. If you can not then see about being transferred within the company to a different project. One where you can get different experience, and a broader lesson with humans. 
Make it their idea if possible while you keep your mouth shut.


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Outperform him in every way, people will notice. Actions speak louder than words.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

SWDweller said:


> Being the squeaky wheel in my experience is has always backfired on to me and the culprit is left unharmed.
> If you can tough it out do so. If you can not then see about being transferred within the company to a different project. One where you can get different experience, and a broader lesson with humans.
> Make it their idea if possible while you keep your mouth shut.





CMP said:


> Outperform him in every way, people will notice. Actions speak louder than words.


Thank you guys, I've only just posted but I'm already seeing a consensus forming. I have received tremendous praise from the dozen or so other foremen I've worked for on and off at this company and as a result from the owners as well.

I know that his mediocrity can't stifle my efforts to be something better and it sounds like I just need to find my second wind in enduring his short comings.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Sadly, in our trade, if an apprentice complains about a journeyman/foreman, they get the rep of being a whining crybaby. 

We've all worked for jerks like this and almost always, they get their just desserts.........sooner or later..........

I would continue to do my best. Even though it doesn't seem like it, people will notice both good and bad.


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

When I was apprenticing with my former partner, he was a lazy slacking slug. After a while the customers would call my pager and ask me not to bring him to their job, they wanted me and a helper.

When I left him, just before his wife did, all of the customers left with me. Keeping the same pager number made it easy for them.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

I started a business, so there's that. Get your hours in and never look back.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

What goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch and it doesn't discriminate. Do what you can to avoid working with this person. The others are correct, rise above the best you can and it will get noticed. Move on to another job if you have to.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Yep. Scumbags always get what's coming to them, without your help. Let it go.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

ZacharyBob said:


> *Bold for the key points..*
> 
> I'd like to think I'm a pretty upbeat guy. I really feel strongly that among other things, a good attitude is a fundamental part of being pretty much anything worth being.
> 
> ...


No, just no... full stop. You worked for many foremen all with good rapport so, it's him not you. He does what he does because he can get away with it. I let mine cut out for 1 $ 1/2 years at Noon (Hence his long-term nickname "Nooner." man was never seen post lunch...) turns out he was also running a nonunion shop in Queens and eventually tossed from the local out on his ARSE after the local set me up to join him under the guise that I was a turncoat... and organized the chit outta his shop and cherry-picked all his worthwhile star players LOL. 

His built pension was subsequently "misplaced" because of that whole Y2K computer SNAFU and since we all know that ping-pong ball in a blender never kept his stubs will NEVER be able to prove his hours nor pension credits... due to his house catching on fire... come his time to file... he's S.O.L... 

I did HIS work and MINE for 1 & 1/2 years after lunch and it worked... he used me. Organized hand he was BTW NOT a coinholder... don't make hm a bad person but his background is relevant here. 

Yea, that chit does happen but only to the RIGHT people. Oh Int'l has the same computer gitch I hear say... imagine that huh? Don't that beat all?


John Valdes said:


> Just keep working hard and keep your mouth shut. These things seem to get resolved on their own. If he is doing all these things sooner or later it will happen.
> Don't get a bad name in the local.


Yea that's one tactic pretty well suited for pussys who won't take a stand and do the right thing... 

But I bet there's another side to this story the OP ain't clued us in on, amirite OP???
SOmetimes you're treated like a **** (richard) for a darn good reason, or, I can see the company KNOWS this schitck all too well and sent YOU to make up for HIS shortcomings so it's all even for them... in which case your shop is the issue, not YOU.
Since he's the foreskin... you should do nothing when he aitn around but pay lip service and pretend to work, if caught just say "SHOW ME, I NEVER DID THIS BEFORE..." Sorry head cheese... he wasn't here to TELL ME or LAY OUT the work or what had to be done and I'm paid from THE NECK DOWN...

So maybe you should MAN UP. 


ZacharyBob said:


> Thanks John, I appreciate your (as usual) timely response. Maybe just being able to let this out in relative confidence can get me through another 18 months until my exam.


If you always do what yo always did you'll always get what you always got... this is NOT your first "HUman resourses" issue IIRC... 

Or is it?

You got options man... and if your honest, with YOURSELF first and foremost and above all the name of this game is to make some of THEIR money YOUR money... and YOU work for YOURSELF---> not any certificate of incorporation. THEY'RE NOT REAL Despite what the USSC says...




SWDweller said:


> Being the squeaky wheel in my experience is has always backfired on to me and the culprit is left unharmed.
> If you can tough it out do so. If you can not then see about being transferred within the company to a different project. One where you can get different experience, and a broader lesson with humans.
> Make it their idea if possible while you keep your mouth shut.


Oh madre de dios...

What a whimp... 

The man can and should not let sleeping dogs lie... but cry havoc and let forth the dogs of war... send this a-hole under the bus and have him dispatched... easily. PM Me OP for the correct approach which would be unassailable...
And PERFECT... like I try to be and have perfected my "art" of "malicious compliance..." 



CMP said:


> Outperform him in every way, people will notice. Actions speak louder than words.


Yea that's the ticket... work harder so he looks great and you get nothing but an atta-boy if you're lucky? What kind of scab does that anyway but some 2 bit bastard redheaded stepchild what writes with it's devil hand???




ZacharyBob said:


> Thank you guys, I've only just posted but I'm already seeing a consensus forming. I have received tremendous praise from the dozen or so other foremen I've worked for on and off at this company and as a result from the owners as well.
> 
> I know that his mediocrity can't stifle my efforts to be something better and it sounds like I just need to find my second wind in enduring his short comings.


Ignorance is bliss sometimes, just be sure this is that time... but smart money's on some kind of coming home in triumph and smelling like roses... is required. I think everybody here is warped and wrong and way off base... taking the weasles way out... but hey... Eagles may soar but... weasels never get sucked into jet engines, do they?

But it wasn't the first time and won't be the last I guarantee ya that much. 


micromind said:


> Sadly, in our trade, if an apprentice complains about a journeyman/foreman, they get the rep of being a whining crybaby.
> 
> We've all worked for jerks like this and almost always, they get their just desserts.........sooner or later..........
> 
> I would continue to do my best. Even though it doesn't seem like it, people will notice both good and bad.


But not now, huh? Inapplicable... bad comparison and your metaphor needs more training up.
Because I FOR ONE think your tact sucks.



CMP said:


> When I was apprenticing with my former partner, he was a lazy slacking slug. After a while the customers would call my pager and ask me not to bring him to their job, they wanted me and a helper.
> 
> When I left him, just before his wife did, all of the customers left with me. Keeping the same pager number made it easy for them.


Peeling off into your own business is not most people's solutions, one shouldn't be forced into an inferno just cause there's fuel on the everyday fire... 

If ya can get me... then YOU'RE COOKING wit GAS!!!



ohm it hertz said:


> I started a business, so there's that. Get your hours in and never look back.


Yea.. another quitter. 

Majors NEVER LOSE and...
Minors never win. 

Another one - man - in - a - van... to race to the bottom along with all the other malcontents and so-called "God-Like_almighty-licensed-contractors" who does "Custom Wiring.... " just like the repetitive cookie cutter chit pizza joints and chit Hallmark card shops and Chit take out Chinese foods and Chit Bodegas/delis/ and on aand on and on, rinse repeat... 

And yet never solved that problem anyway just RAN AWAY, like "Brave Sir Robin" of Monty-Python fame...


nrp3 said:


> What goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch and it doesn't discriminate. Do what you can to avoid working with this person. The others are correct, rise above the best you can and it will get noticed. Move on to another job if you have to.


If Karma doesn't discriminate explain David Koch? Or his dead brother? Fred is it? Or Ellen Degeneros?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> Yep. Scumbags always get what's coming to them, without your help. Let it go.


Spoken like a well-whipped wage-slave who never once thought to stand up and man up and knows nothing of dignity at work. Good boy. Now shattup and produce, you're an electrician not a shrink.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

LGLS said:


> No, just no... full stop. You worked for many foremen all with good rapport so, it's him not you. He does what he does because he can get away with it. I let mine cut out for 1 $ 1/2 years at Noon (Hence his long-term nickname "Nooner." man was never seen post lunch...) turns out he was also running a nonunion shop in Queens and eventually tossed from the local out on his ARSE after the local set me up to join him under the guise that I was a turncoat... and organized the chit outta his shop and cherry-picked all his worthwhile star players LOL.
> 
> His built pension was subsequently "misplaced" because of that whole Y2K computer SNAFU and since we all know that ping-pong ball in a blender never kept his stubs will NEVER be able to prove his hours nor pension credits... due to his house catching on fire... come his time to file... he's S.O.L...
> 
> ...


Very thorough! I don't always agree, but I do always read your replies in full. I appreciate your response and where you're coming from. 

I tend to let things slide and get stepped on, but I have reprimanded him like a child more than once. Most recently it was in front of our GC's foreman who applauded my efforts and had his own talk afterwards. I've had to draw the line with the way that he talks to me but when it comes to the offenses that are largely against our contractor it's been a battle. 

It goes against my thinking to not work at all when I'm on the clock but I do refuse to let him rush me through things. I've let that happen in the past and it was easy to see that he'd push me into making mistakes that he could chastise me over and turn the whole day into a vicious cycle. 

If I thought I was giving him reason to treat me badly I'd save us all the time and quit that BS in a hurry. 
I've got a break from this guy for an unknown duration, but this foreman is the only other guy down here in California with me so I'll have to find a way to deal if I'm going to be on the jobs closest to home. The rest of our locals work is 45 minutes away in Oregon.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

ZacharyBob said:


> Very thorough! I don't always agree, but I do always read your replies in full. I appreciate your response and where you're coming from.
> 
> I tend to let things slide and get stepped on, but I have reprimanded him like a child more than once. Most recently it was in front of our GC's foreman who applauded my efforts and had his own talk afterwards. I've had to draw the line with the way that he talks to me but *when it comes to the offenses that are largely against our contractor it's been a battle.*


That's not your circus, and he's not your monkey... 


> It goes against my thinking to not work at all when I'm on the clock but I do refuse to let him rush me through things. I've let that happen in the past and it was easy to see that he'd push me into making mistakes that he could chastise me over and turn the whole day into a vicious cycle.


He's making you look like a bad guy to divert the subject away from the 800# gorilla in the room... I was taught and seem to learn the best from those who lead by example... 

Also he thinks spreading his stressors onto you somehow alleviates the guilt and BS he's been feeling... I'm thinking drug or other personal problem... or maybe some sort of "test" for you? Like a set-up for a future takedown???


> If I thought I was giving him reason to treat me badly I'd save us all the time and quit that BS in a hurry.
> I've got a break from this guy for an unknown duration, but this foreman is the only other guy down here in California with me so I'll have to find a way to deal if I'm going to be on the jobs closest to home. The rest of our locals work is 45 minutes away in Oregon.


Hmmm... NW California / SW Oregon... must be beautiful I wanna road trip the entire northern 1/3 of this country in a few years after my investments are all ducks in a row... Maybe talk to your BA or is there a steward whose ear you can bend... share a drink... or a member's assistance program might do HIM wonders... if my suspicions are correct. Or even if not. Man needs to start thinking critically, and maybe you can take a page from that book as well methinks?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

LGLS said:


> Spoken like a well-whipped wage-slave who never once thought to stand up and man up and knows nothing of dignity at work. Good boy. Now shattup and produce, you're an electrician not a shrink.


I'm a one-man-in-a-van. I've done modestly well for myself in that role.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> I'm a one-man-in-a-van. I've done modestly well for myself in that role.


That's great buddy. Now tell someone who cares.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

LGLS said:


> Spoken like a well-whipped wage-slave who never once thought to stand up and man up and knows nothing of dignity at work. Good boy. Now shattup and produce, you're an electrician not a shrink.


But, but,....I thought YOU cared.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> But, but,....I thought YOU cared.


Will ya just humor me and play along for once? Why must you contine to tilt at this windmill or do ya need the last word again??? Is that it? OK shoot buddy: I'll not respoind so... have at it, and make it a good one!


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

This here is some funny stuff.



> Yea that's the ticket... work harder so he looks great and you get nothing but an atta-boy if you're lucky? What kind of scab does that anyway but some 2 bit bastard redheaded stepchild what writes with it's devil hand???





> Peeling off into your own business is not most people's solutions, one shouldn't be forced into an inferno just cause there's fuel on the everyday fire...
> 
> If ya can get me... then YOU'RE COOKING wit GAS!!!


Sounds like you had a fine time this weekend with those newly acquired zippos and pipes, along with the ingested consumables. 

Like I told you before, I’m glad I didn’t learn from the best of the best. 

But your reading comprehension lacks a bit when your inebriated, I didn’t peel off to start a competing business, I already owned that one, just needed to get away from another perpetual inebriated soul. Life has been so much better since then. 30 more good years.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

When I started a new job in upstate NY, I was looked down upon because I worked hard. They tried telling me that I was making them look bad. I said you all are making yourselves look bad I am just doing my job the way I normally work. These guys were with this company for years. Months later he had to lay some people off for a few weeks and guess who went? I was the only one he kept on while the others got a short vacation. I told the boss I should be let go since I was the new guy but he was afraid I would look for another job. I finally promised him I wouldn't go anywhere and please don't make me paint another room in your house. haha

I think I had 2 days break before he called me back

My point is do your job and take pride in it and don't worry about the others.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

CMP said:


> This here is some funny stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good for you man!


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I too, make no apologies for the path I’ve taken either. To each their own.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> When I started a new job in upstate NY, I was looked down upon because I worked hard. They tried telling me that I was making them look bad. I said you all are making yourselves look bad I am just doing my job the way I normally work. These guys were with this company for years. Months later he had to lay some people off for a few weeks and guess who went? I was the only one he kept on while the others got a short vacation. I told the boss I should be let go since I was the new guy but he was afraid I would look for another job. I finally promised him I wouldn't go anywhere and please don't make me paint another room in your house. haha
> 
> I think I had 2 days break before he called me back
> 
> My point is do your job and take pride in it and don't worry about the others.


Great outlook "you do you let them worry about themselves..." I had a tough start battling production and knowledge and wits and know how with some old-school stalwarts wgho still subscribed to the old addage and tradition of "the less you do the more you get paid and the better it is for while ol all of 23,24, 25 who just naturally put most around me to shame, even the better ones, but I was at least humbled whether I deserved to be or not and looking back... I woul;dn't change a minute of my experiences both good and bad, nor do I think if iI could I would have improved on the wher at all


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## B.Jenkins (Apr 14, 2016)

ZacharyBob said:


> *Bold for the key points..*
> 
> I'd like to think I'm a pretty upbeat guy. I really feel strongly that among other things, a good attitude is a fundamental part of being pretty much anything worth being.
> 
> ...


During my 1st year I did get away with getting in the face of the lead guy on one of the jobs I was on but you have to pick your battles, if he's being a **** and if it was me I would put him in his place.



> It's just this foreman and I down here a good distance from the shop and as such little to no effort is made to keep tabs on us.


Why do they need to babysit you guys? You're expected to do your job without anyone babysitting you all, trust me at the end of the job if ****'s messed up he'll be the one who gets shitcanned or demoted.



> In contrast, I've got the cliche low life foreman (who also plays the role of my journeyman) that gets away with showing up late every day


How do you know he's not going by the supply house in the morning or the shop? So what if he's late? That's on him, quit being a busybody and just do your job. 



> falsifying time cards


What do you mean by falsifying time cards? Not putting down his time for lunch? Be specific



> stealing company materials


What material is he stealing? Wire? If it's something major I would probably try to get off his job otherwise he could blame you for stealing material, again how much material is he taking?


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

B.Jenkins said:


> During my 1st year I did get away with getting in the face of the lead guy on one of the jobs I was on but you have to pick your battles, if he's being a **** and if it was me I would put him in his place.
> 
> I*’m not interested in getting in any ones face, it’s a jobsite not a bar. His “place” is as my superior so that’s really not applicable. I ended up telling him calmly and sternly that if I had to tell him not to talk to me like that again we’d need to have that conversation include the office. *
> Why do they need to babysit you guys? You're expected to do your job without anyone babysitting you all, trust me at the end of the job if ****'s messed up he'll be the one who gets shitcanned or demoted.
> ...


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## B.Jenkins (Apr 14, 2016)

ZacharyBob said:


> *Bold for the key points..*
> 
> I'd like to think I'm a pretty upbeat guy. I really feel strongly that among other things, a good attitude is a fundamental part of being pretty much anything worth being.
> 
> ...


Right now everyone is looking for helpers, you might end up in a better situation or an even worse situation but sounds like you're miserable and if you are, you really don't have to put yourself through this, there are plenty of folks out there who would be happy to have an extra set of hands on a job right now, don't be like me and wait over 6 years before you decide to quit, get your resume together and put it out on the various employment search sites.


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## stamaster21 (7 mo ago)

Interesting topic the only thing i agree with is not getting into other peoples face, remember its a construction site with danger all around, you shouldn't be getting into other folks face, you got something to stay you can be calm and assertive and get your point across without getting into someone's face to escalate to physical violence. As for the other points hes THE FOREMAN that means he is above you aka higher rank, he can come to job site anytime he wants, just focus on your duties, because being a helper thinking your gonna win vs a foreman and tell him what time he has to be there your gonna lose everytime. You get payed on the clock if the foreman is not there and you can't get on the jobsite just put the time you came in simple as that.


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## B.Jenkins (Apr 14, 2016)

stamaster21 said:


> Interesting topic the only thing i agree with is not getting into other peoples face, remember its a construction site with danger all around, you shouldn't be getting into other folks face, you got something to stay you can be calm and assertive and get your point across without getting into someone's face to escalate to physical violence. As for the other points hes THE FOREMAN that means he is above you aka higher rank, he can come to job site anytime he wants, just focus on your duties, because being a helper thinking your gonna win vs a foreman and tell him what time he has to be there your gonna lose everytime. You get payed on the clock if the foreman is not there and you can't get on the jobsite just put the time you came in simple as that.


Everyone kinda thought it was funny when I stood up to the lead guy, unironically he changed his tone real quick after he got called out and was pretty helpful to me from that point on, some people take being polite and kind as a form of weakness but since being in the trade years later I don't even bother taking other assholes seriously, I'm there because I'm getting paid to do a job and try to have fun while doing it.


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## B.Jenkins (Apr 14, 2016)

But if OP disagrees with what the foreman is doing morally then he should just quit or try to get transferred.


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## stamaster21 (7 mo ago)

B.Jenkins said:


> But if OP disagrees with what the foreman is doing morally then he should just quit or try to get transferred.


I agree folks don't realize the foreman/supervisor is the boss he can come in anytime he wants hes in charge he makes the rules not YOU.
The foreman/foreman has power and privileges that you don't have. A person going to another site or company won't change that. Every job has this power dynamic, lunch is a hour but the foreman/supervisor or boss has a 2 hour lunch.


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