# Pulling wire in conduit...



## Jlarson

First, pulling #10 solid in 1/2 always sucks. Did you use lube? How did you make up the head, all the conductors even or did you stagger them?


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## MDShunk

You should have had NO trouble with that pull. Either you made up your head huge, or you're a weakling. Nobody needs to "push" #10. Just guide it. I suspect that you need to hit the gym. If a 25' pull of #10 kicked your butt to the point where you were sore the next day, you've got a heck of a lot of days ahead where you'll be sore before you grow some muscle.


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## administr8tor

You need an Al for that:whistling2:

But seriously maybe your partner was pulling too:laughing:


(I like mdshunk's response better)


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## Fiki

Jlarson said:


> First, pulling #10 solid in 1/2 always sucks. Did you use lube? How did you make up the head, all the conductors even or did you stagger them?


My God, I have no idea what you're talking about.... I will have pics by tomorrow. No lube for sure. I will have pix tomorrow...


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## Big John

Something doesn't quite add up about that. 

I've seen guys "feeding" who don't have rhythm and get out of sync with the guy pulling, making the pull worse than if there was nobody there at all. Jerky movements are also no good on pulls. Slow, even pressure. And if you hit a spot where you're really stuck, have the "feeder" pull back a couple feet and then you try again.

Unless your instructor re-made the head before he pulled it, those are really the only things I can think of that would've made any difference.

-John


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## MDShunk

Fiki said:


> My God, I have no idea what you're talking about.... I will have pics by tomorrow. No lube for sure. I will have pix tomorrow...


Doesn't matter. You don't need lube for 25' feet, I don't care if you had 300 degrees of bend or not. If you made up your head right, and you're at least as strong as the average man your size, this is not a problem. The guy on the feed end just needs to keep the tangles and dropped loops out of it while you pull. When you make up a head, the goal is to have the head not be much larger than the bundle of wire you're pulling. 

edit.... sometimes the "pusher" actually fights you by pushing and makes the bundle expand in the pipe and it's harder to pull. Possibly this is what happened?


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> You should have had NO trouble with that pull. Either you made up your head huge, or you're a weakling. Nobody needs to "push" #10. Just guide it. I suspect that you need to hit the gym. If a 25' pull of #10 kicked your butt to the point where you were sore the next day, you've got a heck of a lot of days ahead where you'll be sore before you grow some muscle.


Man... I gotta admit I am skinny. I am not a beefy guy. I probably consume about 4500 to 6000 calories a day. Depending on how far I go. I can run 20 miles non-stop I just have no physical strength (training for a marathon). I do, just not enough I guess... My instructor can do it easily. And damnit, my partner must have 40 lbs on me and he cant do it. We had to switch from pulling/pushing because he wasn't getting an inch. I at least got a foot in total .


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## MDShunk

Fiki said:


> Man... I gotta admit I am skinny. I am not a beefy guy. I probably consume about 4500 to 6000 calories a day. Depending on how far I go. I can run 20 miles non-stop I just have no physical strength (training for a marathon). I do, just not enough I guess... My instructor can do it easily. And damnit, my partner must have 40 lbs on me and he cant do it. We had to switch from pulling/pushing because he wasn't getting an inch. I at least got a foot in total .


Huh? You only got that wire a foot into the pipe? Does not compute. I think your head was F'd up. Did your instructor pull it out and smash it a bit with a hammer or massage it with a pair of nines before he pulled it back in?


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> Doesn't matter. You don't need lube for 25' feet, I don't care if you had 300 degrees of bend or not. If you made up your head right, and you're at least as strong as the average man your size, this is not a problem. The guy on the feed end just needs to keep the tangles and dropped loops out of it while you pull. When you make up a head, the goal is to have the head not be much larger than the bundle of wire you're pulling.


You make it sound so easy. I would do it as quickly as you imply. My God, I just cannot. Im going to go into lab tomorrow. With guys twice my age. You know what I am going to do then? Fail. Im already behind because it took me to long to pull wire. I need an edge. If it is just brute force. Then damn it, I am going to do pull ups on those conductors. I pretty much was before. Idk how my instructor did it. I want to beat my class, I cannot let those 40 something year olds beat me. The NEC has nothing in this regard and you're damn right I am reading it right now.... Just art.250 grounding and bonding


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## Jlarson

MDShunk said:


> You don't need lube for 25' feet


I know I don't.


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## MDShunk

Fiki said:


> You make it sound so easy. I would do it as quickly as you imply. My God, I just cannot. Im going to go into lab tomorrow. With guys twice my age. You know what I am going to do then? Fail. Im already behind because it took me to long to pull wire. I need an edge. If it is just brute force. Then damn it, I am going to do pull ups on those conductors. I pretty much was before. Idk how my instructor did it. I want to beat my class, I cannot let those 40 something year olds beat me. The NEC has nothing in this regard and you're damn right I am reading it right now.... Just art.250 grounding and bonding


You're right. The NEC is not an instruction manual on pulling conductors in pipe. My guess is that you lack upper body strength, and possibly also lack the mechanical aptitude to make up a compact head on your pull. Quit running a maybe hit the bench press. What you're talking about is a VERY EASY pull. It would take an electrician longer to make up the head than it would take to pull it. Maybe 3 minutes total. I pulled 3-#10's and 5-#12's in a 3/4 RMC this afternoon, 40 couple feet, with 330 degrees of bend with just a wire cart, me, and maybe 10 minutes to complete the pull. It took almost no effort. I'm not a weakling, but certainly not one of the stronger guys you'll ever meet either.


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> Huh? You only got that wire a foot into the pipe? Does not compute. I think your head was F'd up. Did your instructor pull it out and smash it a bit with a hammer or massage it with a pair of nines before he pulled it back in?


Oh what I was told to do. We used the same as fish tape apparently. I had a ground going to panel, another was mine in addition to other conductors I had. I used my linemans to squish/twist ALL my conductors. Then I made a hook at the end of my ground going to panel, and a hook FROM the panel (a ground). I hooked them both up, made them nice and skinny using my lineman's and tried to pull. At least that is what I got from my teacher.


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## MDShunk

Fiki said:


> Oh what I was told to do. We used the same as fish tape apparently. I had a ground going to panel, another was mine in addition to other conductors I had. I used my linemans to squish/twist ALL my conductors. Then I made a hook at the end of my ground going to panel, and a hook FROM the panel (a ground). I hooked them both up, made them nice and skinny using my lineman's and tried to pull. At least that is what I got from my teacher.


I have no idea what you're saying here, but I'm glad you had a nice time doing it. :laughing:


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## Jlarson

Fiki said:


> Oh what I was told to do. We used the same as fish tape apparently. I had a ground going to panel, another was mine in addition to other conductors I had. I used my linemans to squish/twist ALL my conductors. Then I made a hook at the end of my ground going to panel, and a hook FROM the panel (a ground). I hooked them both up, made them nice and skinny using my lineman's and tried to pull. At least that is what I got from my teacher.


When I pull solid with a tape I take one wire and strip it back quite a bit then I loop that through the tape then I twist it back on its self. then I twist the rest of the wires on to that tight staggering them then I tape it up. Never had an issue this way.


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> You're right. The NEC is not an instruction manual on pulling conductors in pipe. My guess is that you lack upper body strength, and possibly also lack the mechanical aptitude to make up a compact head on your pull. Quit running a maybe hit the bench press. What you're talking about is a VERY EASY pull. It would take an electrician longer to make up the head than it would take to pull it. Maybe 3 minutes total.


Ah damnit, I dont want anyone to exploit my upper body weakness. I eat alot and go to the gym. I train for marathon running though . I can run a distance without stopping, just not as fast . for 26 miles, give me 3 hrs 45 min . Weak.... I know. Maybe ill get in industrial or residential .


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## MDShunk

Fiki said:


> Ah damnit, I dont want anyone to exploit my upper body weakness. I eat alot and go to the gym. I train for marathon running though . I can run a distance without stopping, just not as fast . for 26 miles, give me 3 hrs 45 min . Weak.... I know. Maybe ill get in industrial or residential .


You for real, dude? 

I feel like I'm being punked.

Suicide is always an option. Just sayin'.


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> I have no idea what you're saying here, but I'm glad you had a nice time doing it. :laughing:


Agreed, I am only following my instructor. This makes no sense to me... It does to him though. I need pics of this. I feel so ashamed because I was last to pull all my wires though.... I started in the middle and was last to finish... This is bad... I need to speed it up. I will have pics tomorrow night. Bending conduit is hard for a newbie though. I might just have to go residential before I can bend with journeyman like proficiency.


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## Fiki

sorry, rambiling


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## MDShunk

Fiki said:


> You are for real . **** should I delete this? Man I came here for help. Gluing my nose to the Nec! I cant help being physically weak. I got 114 Nec questions on my commercial wiring final in 1.5 weeks. Gah! If youre going to feed me "you're weak ahahhaa" slogans all day long I will take it. I am physically weak damn it. I am not going to stop in any case. I need a profession for Christ sake, and its two more years for electrical engineering. This is what I can do. Don't make fun of me. Thats what I can do. In theory I am great, you give me a hypothetical fault, I will find it. In practice. ****.... Im sorry I am physically weak.


You're a riot. I think you've got a few strands of female DNA mixed up in you someplace. :laughing: Bottom line- I think you'll do fine. You know your challenges. Don't get all weepy because it's not going to be as easy as you thought it would be.


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## Jlarson

MDShunk said:


> You for real, dude?
> 
> I feel like I'm being punked.
> 
> Suicide is always an option. Just sayin'.


Is it wrong I laughed kinda hard at this? :laughing::laughing:


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> You for real, dude?
> 
> I feel like I'm being punked.
> 
> Suicide is always an option. Just sayin'.


No, I am as green as it gets. I am not kidding. Please help. I have 100 and something pieces of code to memorize. Physically I am not very strong but neither is my partner. Who weights much more than me... Idk.... I dont weight alot but if my partner who is about 30lba more than me be heaving as much as me? I know physically I am less. But this guy is sweating as much as me. Not nearly as much as but as much as me. What the hell? It is not like I am not trying either. Hell, if anything I want to show up everybody....


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## Fiki

Jlarson said:


> Is it wrong I laughed kinda hard at this? :laughing::laughing:


Yes it is... I just started commercial god damnit


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## MDShunk

Fiki said:


> Yes it is... I just started commercial god damnit


:laughing::laughing: I'd love to provide some actual help, but unless I saw a video of what you did to point out what might be wrong, I don't have much to offer. In the mean time, I hope you don't mind if I am entertained by your situation and your outbursts.


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> You're a riot. I think you've got a few strands of female DNA mixed up in you someplace. :laughing: Bottom line- I think you'll do fine. You know your challenges. Don't get all weepy because it's not going to be as easy as you thought it would be.


You're as hard on me as my instructors. I will take it. Outlast those around me and continue. Damnit... I wanted some edge though. Ill work a full 24 hrs np. I just want the chance. Im hungry. I dont want my physical limitations make up for anything. I will work 2-4 hrs more on the job. I will still learn and make more than I am making now retail. I want that knowledge and I want the labor. Just help me .


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> :laughing::laughing: I'd love to provide some actual help, but unless I saw a video of what you did to point out what might be wrong, I don't have much to offer. In the mean time, I hope you don't mind if I am entertained by your situation and your outbursts.


Yep... Your outburst is awesome. Pics coming tomorrow... Am I troll? I hope I am not.


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## Fiki

MDShunk said:


> :laughing::laughing: I'd love to provide some actual help, but unless I saw a video of what you did to point out what might be wrong, I don't have much to offer. In the mean time, I hope you don't mind if I am entertained by your situation and your outbursts.




AHHH! Another post. I know I am such a noob. But tomorrow late at night (about 1-2am est). I will post. Just help me is all I ask. Can you do that? I will make the video super clear. Just help me..... I am not fishing for answers. I am just.... Confused that is all...


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> AHHH! Another post. I know I am such a noob. But tomorrow late at night (about 1-2am est). I will post. Just help me is all I ask. Can you do that? I will make the video super clear. Just help me..... I am not fishing for answers. I am just.... Confused that is all...


Can you post them a little earlier so we on the east coast don't have to stay up all night.:laughing:


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## guest

Oh boy, this ought to be good........:laughing:


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> Can you post them a little earlier so we on the east coast don't have to stay up all night.:laughing:




Absolutely... From now on anyway. You guys... I am as green as it gets. This 'stuff' is hard for me... I know you can do it a million times over without a thought. I cannot. I will have pics tomorrow. I dont want any flaming is all. Can I get that little shard of respect? I was already told my journeyman wont help me much by my instructor. Can you guys give me a shard of respect? I know I dont know what I am talking about... Im not an electrician... I am genuinely here for help .


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## nitro71

Nitro smells troll!! Game on!!! This is like Justin Beiber trying to be an electrician, LOL! I tried so.. hard.. LMAO!


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## Fiki

nitro71 said:


> Nitro smells troll!! Game on!!! This is like Justin Beiber trying to be an electrician, LOL! I tried so.. hard.. LMAO!


Jesus christ..... I am not a troll.... Should I just shut up? My ego is about 0 right now. Im sure you guys were born with no knowledge. Should I just stop typing? I thought I had a mediocre question at least. Damn.... If I am going to get flamed for this. Maybe I should just pay my 20k tuition and quit. Christ, I thought people will help me on this site. Maybe make fun of me, but at least point me in the right direction as stupid as it is. Yeah, I know what I asked is stupid. I know you guys can answer all of it in your head. I can't.... I came here for help .









/


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## nitro71

Pulling wire is pretty simple. Make the tightest, strongest head you can. Lube it well. Pull on it. If you're using a fish tape and it won't pull put your linesmans on it and pull. If you're using a rope and it won't pull take a 2x4 and choke up on it. If that doesn't work grab a shiv and the nearest 4x4 in low gear. That's how ya do it.


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Absolutely... From now on anyway. You guys... I am as green as it gets. This 'stuff' is hard for me... I know you can do it a million times over without a thought. I cannot. I will have pics tomorrow. I dont want any flaming is all. Can I get that little shard of respect? I was already told my journeyman wont help me much by my instructor. Can you guys give me a shard of respect? I know I dont know what I am talking about... Im not an electrician... I am genuinely here for help .


Well it looks like you're getting respect you're thraed has 31 posts..

Think of it like this all of us here were greenie's just like you are now one day,, and we all had to go through what you are going through right now.

We all had to pay the dues and take a lot of crap to move up the ladder..

In this trade you need to have thick skin .. you're still trying and will get in the morning and do it.... you will be just fine .

Welcome to the trade..:thumbup:


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## The Lightman

Fiki said:


> Jesus christ..... I am not a troll.... Should I just shut up?/


NO, type away! Please come back tomorrow. I am on break, heading back out and decided to check in. I haven't laughed that hard in a while. These are good guys, just remembering their first days. I went to the Army electrician school, when I was at your level. At least your instructor isn't making you do push ups. Ask the instructor to show you what 500MCM is.


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## HARRY304E

The Lightman said:


> NO, type away! Please come back tomorrow. I am on break, heading back out and decided to check in. I haven't laughed that hard in a while. These are good guys, just remembering their first days. I went to the Army electrician school, when I was at your level. At least your instructor isn't making you do push ups. Ask the instructor to show you what 500MCM is.


 How about 750 MCM thats the good stuff and it will give you one hell of a workout..:laughing:


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## The Lightman

Wire wrestling!


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## erics37

First off, solid wire sucks unless it's part of a cable assembly. I don't think I've ever pulled solid wire into a pipe on purpose.

If it's any consolation, I had a job once where we had to replace some solid #12s in a 1/2" EMT... had maybe 300 degrees of bend in it. Installation was at least 30 years old.

The original plan was to use one of the original conductors as a pull string and make our head up onto it and pull the old ones out and the new ones in simultaneously. Tried it, and it would literally NOT BUDGE, even with two of us pulling on it. We tried everything we could think of, including banging on the pipe in the elbows, wrapping the pull end around a hammer handle for better grip, etc.... all that happened then was our pull wire snapped in two inside the pipe 

Eventually we just had to open a coupling up halfway through the run and pull them through that half, and then the second half. It was still difficult.

Hardest wire pull I've ever done. Close second was a 650-footer underground in 2½" (maybe it was 3"...) with a set of 200 amp feeders by hand with just two guys.


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## HARRY304E

The Lightman said:


> Wire wrestling!


 
The one time i worked with 750 MCM was a switch Geer with 16 4" rigid pipes coming in thats 64 wires to cut in that took a few days to land them all and make them look good it was a work out to say the least the greenlee rachett cutteres got a beating too and a few razer blades as well..


We made a few bucks an the scrap...:whistling2::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> Well it looks like you're getting respect you're thraed has 31 posts..
> 
> Think of it like this all of us here were greenie's just like you are now one day,, and we all had to go through what you are going through right now.
> 
> We all had to pay the dues and take a lot of crap to move up the ladder..
> 
> In this trade you need to have thick skin .. you're still trying and will get in the morning and do it.... you will be just fine .
> 
> Welcome to the trade..:thumbup:


Man... When I can look at a set of plans... and just make it happen without a second glance.... Thats what I want. I am looking at my hw...Have a lot to learn... I will post pics around midnight tomorrow.... I am a scrub. If you guys post here before I post pics, just let me know what i can do to fix it. 
I am just learning commercial. Give me some romex and a fan/light. I can do it . But with emt/box fill/ ampacity and derating. I am not very good.... I am trying though.


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## erics37

Fiki said:


> Man... When I can look at a set of plans... and just make it happen without a second glance.... Thats what I want. I am looking at my hw...Have a lot to learn... I will post pics around midnight tomorrow.... I am a scrub. If you guys post here before I post pics, just let me know what i can do to fix it.
> I am just learning commercial. Give me some romex and a fan/light. I can do it . But with emt/box fill/ ampacity and derating. I am not very good.... I am trying though.


It's good that you have lofty goals and a tenacious attitude, but all of this stuff takes time. When I first started there were several mental speed bumps I had trouble getting past. First was 3-way switching of course, then after that it was understanding how a holding contact on a 3-wire start/stop motor control circuit works, and I think the last big hang-up I had was looking at a set of blueprints and visualizing the finished product. I still have a bit of trouble with that.

Don't fret it; these things will come naturally. Sometimes you may not be the top guy in class, but don't worry about it.... everyone has their weak spots. You'll do fine if you drop the plaintive tone and just do your best.


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Man... When I can look at a set of plans... and just make it happen without a second glance.... Thats what I want. I am looking at my hw...Have a lot to learn... I will post pics around midnight tomorrow.... I am a scrub. If you guys post here before I post pics, just let me know what i can do to fix it.
> I am just learning commercial. Give me some romex and a fan/light. I can do it . But with emt/box fill/ ampacity and derating. I am not very good.... I am trying though.


IDK if i will be up at midnight but i am sure these guys will help you out and get some good laughs with you as well .. This is how we all learn together..


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## mrmike

The one thing that I can think that might have been a difference in pulling that cable is where you are grabbing it & how you were pulling it.
The closer to the pipe you get with your hands the easier the cable will start to pull with least resistance . Also use your whole body to pull not just your arms "which I suspect you did"
Its like using a sledge hammer, get your body into it, not just your arm swing & it works twice as much.................


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## cthermond

It takes time to get the hang of the mechanical aspects of the trade. Some people are more naturally mechanically inclined and can pick up things faster than others. Ask questions, be observant, and hustle, move quickly. Being a marathom runner can help very much in your stamina. You need a more positive attitude of youself, a more healthy self esteem. Concentrate on your studies and you'll be fine. If you want to gain more strength you might try lifting weights. But remember, technique and method has a lot to do with wire pulling and other mechanical aspects of the trade.


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## tkb

Fiki said:


> Absolutely... From now on anyway. You guys... I am as green as it gets. This 'stuff' is hard for me... I know you can do it a million times over without a thought. I cannot. I will have pics tomorrow. I dont want any flaming is all. Can I get that little shard of respect? I was already told my journeyman wont help me much by my instructor. Can you guys give me a shard of respect? I know I dont know what I am talking about... Im not an electrician... I am genuinely here for help .


Sounds like you should give up electrical since you have no mechanical aptitude and try working a 7-11 pouring slurpies.


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## Rockyd

tkb said:


> Sounds like you should give up electrical since you have no mechanical aptitude and try working a 7-11 pouring slurpies.


TKB is right!

You don't ask for respect...you earn it! You may not be cut out for this work. A lot of guys that come to our our program are damn good residential hands already - looking to move up; that is respectable.

The woman that cuts my hair would smoke you in a New York minute. She tried the trade out years ago ( I had her for an Apprentice), and decided it wasn't for her. So no whining is the first rule for you...man up, or move on.

You'll find sympathy between sh!t and syphilis in the dictionary.


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## LARMGUY

I'll bet the instructor paid his partner $20 to pull when he did. Or they hooked the wire onto something.


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## eric7379

Fiki said:


> Jesus christ..... I am not a troll.... Should I just shut up? My ego is about 0 right now. Im sure you guys were born with no knowledge. Should I just stop typing? I thought I had a mediocre question at least. Damn.... If I am going to get flamed for this. Maybe I should just pay my 20k tuition and quit. Christ, I thought people will help me on this site. Maybe make fun of me, but at least point me in the right direction as stupid as it is. Yeah, I know what I asked is stupid. I know you guys can answer all of it in your head. I can't.... I came here for help  /


If you went into this with an ego and thought you were great, then you deserve to humbled in such a manner. Everybody has to start somewhere, and you start on the very bottom rung of the ladder. 

Pulling these 10's through 1/2" should not be a problem at all, and no you don't need to use lube, either. Even with 300 degrees of bends. How did you make up the head? As mentioned earlier, did you make it into a big wad and then wrap tape around it, or did you make a big ball of tape around it? Take the lead wire, loop it through the eye on the tape and then twist it back on to itself. Then stagger the other conductors.


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## Smoke

Fiki said:


> So this was the first module where I had to pull wire. I was on top of a ladder, about 5 feet off the ground with my head banging against a fluorescent luminaire. I was yanking and pulling and telling my partner at the very end to push more. Still, we could go no longer. We had in total, about 300 degrees in bends, using 10AWG solid in 1/2" emt over the distance of 25 feet. So for about an hour in total I was pulling wire, my own and my partners. My God, I was so sore in the morning. Yet, my instructor, came up on top of the ladder and without any help... Pulled all the wires. On his own... Now I was yanking on those conductors as hard as I could and I am sure my partner was pushing as hard as he could. Is there some sort of secret to pulling conductors through raceway? I feel like there is. I am a skinny guy, about 140lbs, so is my instructor. It is just the way he manhandled all that wire?... I dont think I could... I got up there as far as I could and pulled as hard as I could. I tried hard too, damnit. I was pouring sweat before my teacher did it without stopping. He is as thin as me, it cant be a muscle difference.... Idk... It just has me frustrated.


i could read through 3 pages or i could just say, STOP USING 1/2 EMT LOL
we only use 1/2 for security.
stranded wire would surely help you seriously


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## mdfriday

Somebody was playing a prank.

The instructor told your buddy to hold the wire while you stuggled to pull it....

:laughing:


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## wirenut71

I agree young fellow, someone might have been playing a joke on you. Where are the pics?


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## Shockdoc

I can pull 10s myself. my secret is continuos motion. once i get them rolling I keep the snake moving and the reels self feed.


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## Englishsparky

I can't wait for the pics either, I hope there is one of the monkeys fist and maybe one of him struggling on the steps lol...


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## nitro71

Unfortunately Nathan asked us to keep this family friendly so I can't talk about how I show gals how to choke up on the pull when I'm training them:whistling2:


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## tkb

wirenut71 said:


> I agree young fellow, someone might have been playing a joke on you. Where are the pics?


I think he took his ball and went home. :whistling2:


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## wirenut71

tkb said:


> I think he took his ball and went home. :whistling2:



I think so too. I remember I had someone play the same prank on me. I returned the favor to the same guy on a long feeder. He got mad and went home for two days.


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## nitro71

wirenut71 said:


> I think so too. I remember I had someone play the same prank on me. I returned the favor to the same guy on a long feeder. He got mad and went home for two days.


I was in this panel one time with a 3' bar yanking a 100' run a foot at a time. Pretty sure they had someone pulling on the other end.


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## sparky105

I pulled a 40 foot run by myself tied my tool box to a rope and the fish to the wire . Put my tool box on a man lift and pulled the rope the wieght of the tool box pulled the wire and I fed it.:thumbup:


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## Fiki

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This is what we had, half hot receptacle, 2 single pole switches, and a luminaire. 



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

My conduit is the one far right side with 90 degree going to the gutter.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Thats my instructor on the right, we call him captain or skipper, a good instructor.

Again to reiterate, I am not strong, but it took me 2 hrs to pull those wires. I was just hoping for an easier way to do it. Im trying here guys.


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## Fiki

Oh and as a FYI all my lights, switches, and panel make up went well. Didnt have conductors on the same phase, the neutral worked fine and everything seemed to work. I did it right but it took me 2 damn hours to pull that wire. I just wanted an easier way.


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Oh and as a FYI all my lights, switches, and panel make up went well. Didnt have conductors on the same phase, the neutral worked fine and everything seemed to work. I did it right but it took me 2 damn hours to pull that wire. I just wanted an easier way.


That is a good looking set up.
Did you guys put up all the unistrut as well..?


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Oh and as a FYI all my lights, switches, and panel make up went well. Didnt have conductors on the same phase, the neutral worked fine and everything seemed to work. I did it right but it took me 2 damn hours to pull that wire. I just wanted an easier way.


It looks like you had ten different wire pulls there so it takes a little time to set it up and acutally do it..

Remember it is more important to do it right the first time ,then to do it fast and have all kinds of rework to do afterwords...


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> It looks like you had ten different wire pulls there so it takes a little time to set it up and acutally do it..
> 
> Remember it is more important to do it right the first time ,then to do it fast and have all kinds of rework to do afterwords...


Ah that makes sense, I was the furthest from the panel and had to pull my wires through the conduit at the gutter, it was so hard. It took me 2 hrs to do it. I was pissed and had an older 40 year old guy gloating to me that he did it in half the time. You guys might not like my attitude and I probably messed up. The thing is, I tried. I pulled that wire and was sweating bricks. I want to be the best! I took no days off in class. I did my blue prints. Had everything ready. I am just to weak for pulling. My Achilles heel. I would be happy to do it quicker but... I guess I am to weak. Im starting working out more. I still think it is an admirable quality to try and be better than I am. I hunger for perfection. I want that respect. More than anything.


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## Fiki

So what should I focus on? Box/conduit fill? I seem to figure that out quick. I am to weak to pull them, even with a partner on the other side. It takes me a while to pull though, I even get to the top end of the ladder with my head bagning on the celing and just pulling wire 1-3mm at a time. Pouring sweat and weak from the numerous pulls. I need to make this happen for my future.


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> It looks like you had ten different wire pulls there so it takes a little time to set it up and acutally do it..
> 
> Remember it is more important to do it right the first time ,then to do it fast and have all kinds of rework to do afterwords...


Well my circuits worked well. The only problem was how long it took to pull wires. Idk... I needed help on that


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## Fiki

tkb said:


> Sounds like you should give up electrical since you have no mechanical aptitude and try working a 7-11 pouring slurpies.


That is an insult. I try hard, I study, I make my own simple circuits like lasers that have decent results. I know enough that I know nothing. I NEED to be better IS all.


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Ah that makes sense, I was the furthest from the panel and had to pull my wires through the conduit at the gutter, it was so hard. It took me 2 hrs to do it. I was pissed and had an older 40 year old guy gloating to me that he did it in half the time. You guys might not like my attitude and I probably messed up. The thing is, I tried. I pulled that wire and was sweating bricks. I want to be the best! I took no days off in class. I did my blue prints. Had everything ready. I am just to weak for pulling. My Achilles heel. I would be happy to do it quicker but... I guess I am to weak. Im starting working out more. I still think it is an admirable quality to try and be better than I am. I hunger for perfection. I want that respect. More than anything.


You have my respect..

I wore your boots one day as well.
And it looks like you have the drive to be the top Dog :thumbup:

Remember the guys that stand in you're way just want to make them selves look better then you because they are insecure..:no: 

It is you're job to overcome all the obstacles in your life Because you want to be the best..:thumbup:


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Well my circuits worked well. The only problem was how long it took to pull wires. Idk... I needed help on that


Remember it takes years to master this trade 

I am still working on it myself...:thumbup:


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> You have my respect..
> 
> I wore your boots one day as well.
> And it looks like you have the drive to be the top Dog :thumbup:
> 
> Remember the guys that stand in you're way just want to make them selves look better then you because they are insecure..:no:
> 
> It is you're job to overcome all the obstacles in your life Because you want to be the best..:thumbup:


You made the most sense to me. I want to be the best. I want the Nec to recognize me. I plan to do this for at least another 10 years before I decide to be an engineer. I dont want a damn soul to be better than I am. I just want things to go above and beyond the call of duty. I want my journeyman to ask me for help. I NEED to be the best. Always.. My dad is an electrical engineer. I need to put him in his place!


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## erics37

Fiki said:


> You made the most sense to me. I want to be the best. I want the Nec to recognize me. I plan to do this for at least another 10 years before I decide to be an engineer. I dont want a damn soul to be better than I am. I just want things to go above and beyond the call of duty. I want my journeyman to ask me for help. I NEED to be the best. Always.. My dad is an electrical engineer. I need to put him in his place!


You've got the right attitude, now just put your money where your mouth is! Sounds like you've got a handle on most everything you've tackled so far. If your wire-pulling sucks then ask your instructor how you can improve it. Hit the gym too if you need it.

Get a few years under your belt in the field wiring stuff... then go for the engineering! God knows we need more EEs that have actually wired something. I'm doing the same thing; I've been slowly tackling classes (one or two per term) for the last couple of years at the local community college making progress toward an EE degree.

But one thing is for sure; my dad will always be smarter than me :thumbup:


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## SparkYZ

Fiki said:


> You made the most sense to me. I want to be the best. I want the Nec to recognize me. I plan to do this for at least another 10 years before I decide to be an engineer. I dont want a damn soul to be better than I am. I just want things to go above and beyond the call of duty. I want my journeyman to ask me for help. I NEED to be the best. Always.. My dad is an electrical engineer. I need to put him in his place!


I know the feeling. Any company I go to, I always want to be referred to as a Damn good electrician. I lime it when the foreman asks me questions.

Anyways, you have the motivation to be a great electrician. Don't lose that drive, and you will be.


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> You made the most sense to me. I want to be the best. I want the Nec to recognize me. I plan to do this for at least another 10 years before I decide to be an engineer. I dont want a damn soul to be better than I am. I just want things to go above and beyond the call of duty. I want my journeyman to ask me for help. I NEED to be the best. Always.. My dad is an electrical engineer. I need to put him in his place!





> My dad is an electrical engineer. I need to put him in his place![/


:laughing::laughing:

Thats cool like i said you can #1 and that is the hardest work of all and it seems that you have the drive to do it..

When you get there you can teach the guys behind you how to become the best damm Electrician and Become an Electrical Engineer as well..

The best "Electricians never stop learning" Thats a quote from one of our members jlarson:thumbup::thumbup:


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## erics37

HARRY304E said:


> The best "Electricians never stop learning" Thats a quote from one of our members jlarson:thumbup::thumbup:


I stop learning at about 11 PM every night.


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> Thats cool like i said you can #1 and that is the hardest work of all and it seems that you have the drive to do it..
> 
> When you get there you can teach the guys behind you how to become the best damm Electrician and Become an Electrical Engineer as well..
> 
> The best "Electricians never stop learning" Thats a quote from one of our members jlarson:thumbup::thumbup:


Brilliant thought. I want an IEEE engineering degree but stay an electrician. I have such a strong desire towards being the best. I cant have anyone bettter than me.I still talk to these apprentices in my class. I love ripping new ones. I just demand perfection, I want to leave no stone uncharted. My dad was always better than all, as an engineer


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## HARRY304E

erics37 said:


> I stop learning at about 11 PM every night.


It's 02:08 here i should be..:sleep1:


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Brilliant thought. I want an IEEE engineering degree but stay an electrician. I have such a strong desire towards being the best. I cant have anyone bettter than me.I still talk to these apprentices in my class. I love ripping new ones. I just demand perfection, I want to leave no stone uncharted. My dad was always better than all, as an engineer


Remember you can learn lots from your dad..:thumbup:


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## Fiki

I take no sleep. I dropped my girlfriend of 2 years because she wanted to move to france... **** HER. I want to be better. I want to take all predecessors out with an eloquent knowledge. Damnit! I need a job, show up 3 hrs early with no pay. Make it look like a master do it. If the master does not like it, show me what I did wrong and accept it. I will still be al over it, pick his mind and conquer it. I want to be a bad ass like all of you.


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> Remember you can learn lots from your dad..:thumbup:


He has no knowledge of the NEC. That bastard made chips for the latest patriot interception missile programs. He laughs at being an electrician... He respects it but he believes it is easy very easy. gahhhh


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> He has no knowledge of the NEC. That bastard made chips for the latest patriot interception missile programs. He laughs at being an electrician... He respects it but he believes it is easy very easy. gahhhh


5 years from now which will pass in no time.
You will have your lisense and then you can have him work as your helper..:laughing::laughing:


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> I take no sleep. I dropped my girlfriend of 2 years because she wanted to move to france... **** HER. I want to be better. I want to take all predecessors out with an eloquent knowledge. Damnit! I need a job, show up 3 hrs early with no pay. Make it look like a master do it. If the master does not like it, show me what I did wrong and accept it. I will still be al over it, pick his mind and conquer it. I want to be a bad ass like all of you.


Never let your GF run you're life..:laughing:


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## Jlarson

HARRY304E said:


> "The best Electricians never stop learning"


What jack ass said that? 





Oh wait.... :laughing:



erics37 said:


> I stop learning at about 11 PM every night.


I'm pretty sure I learn things after 11 but whether I remember any of it in the morning is anybodies guess. :001_huh:


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## cal1947

*retired*

it's all about pushing the same time as pulling


Fiki said:


> So this was the first module where I had to pull wire. I was on top of a ladder, about 5 feet off the ground with my head banging against a fluorescent luminaire. I was yanking and pulling and telling my partner at the very end to push more. Still, we could go no longer. We had in total, about 300 degrees in bends, using 10AWG solid in 1/2" emt over the distance of 25 feet. So for about an hour in total I was pulling wire, my own and my partners. My God, I was so sore in the morning. Yet, my instructor, came up on top of the ladder and without any help... Pulled all the wires. On his own... Now I was yanking on those conductors as hard as I could and I am sure my partner was pushing as hard as he could. Is there some sort of secret to pulling conductors through raceway? I feel like there is. I am a skinny guy, about 140lbs, so is my instructor. It is just the way he manhandled all that wire?... I dont think I could... I got up there as far as I could and pulled as hard as I could. I tried hard too, damnit. I was pouring sweat before my teacher did it without stopping. He is as thin as me, it cant be a muscle difference.... Idk... It just has me frustrated.


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## JohnR

Fiki said:


> We had in total, about 300 degrees in bends, using 10AWG solid in 1/2" emt


You never said how many wires were in the conduit. later you said that there were other wires in the conduit. What gives? Did you check pipefill?


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## muck

Whenever possible I always try to pull from the floor and let gravity help as much as possible. Plus it's safer than on a ladder and you will have alot more leverage.


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## Fiki

JohnR said:


> You never said how many wires were in the conduit. later you said that there were other wires in the conduit. What gives? Did you check pipefill?


Oh there were alright, but just in the gutter box, we had to share the afternoon and morning classes conduit once we got to the gutter .


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Oh there were alright, but just in the gutter box, we had to share the afternoon and morning classes conduit once we got to the gutter .


So do you have to pull out all the wire for the after noon class.??


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> So do you have to pull out all the wire for the after noon class.??


Nah, just have to work around it. But from the gutter box we use the same conduit, naturally we take conduit fill into account but its still a bitch.


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Nah, just have to work around it. But from the gutter box we use the same conduit, naturally we take conduit fill into account but its still a bitch.


 So how many wires in each pipe..?


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> So how many wires in each pipe..?


Well, in my conduuit alone I had 2 hots, N, and a G. From the gutter I ran mine with someone elses conductors so it brought it up to 8. Just enough space according to the nec.


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## The_Modifier

Oh so you where re-fishing through other wires??? Try to include that in the frist post next time friend. I'm sure that others where thinking it was an empty pipe you where drawing wire into.


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## walkerj

This may help


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## oldtimer

The_Modifier said:


> Oh so you where re-fishing through other wires??? Try to include that in the frist post next time friend. I'm sure that others where thinking it was (an empty pie)you where drawing wire into.


 I prefer rhubarb in mine.:laughing::laughing:


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## The_Modifier

oldtimer said:


> I prefer rhubarb in mine.:laughing::laughing:


Damn gotta read my grammer before I click submit, lol. Corrected. ty friend
:thumbup:


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## Big John

walkerj said:


> This may help


 :lol: That's what was wrong on that pull, my hardhat isn't yellow....

-John


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## electrolover

Fiki said:


> Oh and as a FYI all my lights, switches, and panel make up went well. Didnt have conductors on the same phase, the neutral worked fine and everything seemed to work. I did it right but it took me 2 damn hours to pull that wire. I just wanted an easier way.



from the look of the ****ty a$$ pipe work you need a better teacher. if i did work like that i would be fired that day. thats the worst, non thought out, spider web, mess i have ever laid eyes on. 

and what the heel is it a 6foot ceiling or something? otherwise your below grid. you should have built proper pipe racks ABOVE GRID. AND WHO THE HELL PUTS A COMMERCIAL PANEL IN A WALL?


its jake legs like this that make me want to quit the trade. just slam it in and get paid huh? you might as well of romexed it


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## Fiki

electrolover said:


> from the look of the ****ty a$$ pipe work you need a better teacher. if i did work like that i would be fired that day. thats the worst, non thought out, spider web, mess i have ever laid eyes on.
> 
> and what the heel is it a 6foot ceiling or something? otherwise your below grid. you should have built proper pipe racks ABOVE GRID. AND WHO THE HELL PUTS A COMMERCIAL PANEL IN A WALL?
> 
> 
> its jake legs like this that make me want to quit the trade. just slam it in and get paid huh? you might as well of romexed it



Lol, thanks for the constructive critisizm. We don't have a ton of room to work with so the panel is in the wall. Was my first time running conduit so I naturally can use improvement. And that spider web mess you are reffering to is what happens when you get 60 people in 3 classes running conduit for the first time in a 10x50 foot room. Ill try to do art work next time and post pics.


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## electrolover

Fiki said:


> Lol, thanks for the constructive critisizm. We don't have a ton of room to work with so the panel is in the wall. Was my first time running conduit so I naturally can use improvement. And that spider web mess you are reffering to is what happens when you get 60 people in 3 classes running conduit for the first time in a 10x50 foot room. Ill try to do art work next time and post pics.



if your job depended on it you would. 
at any given time there are 50 pipe slingin mexicans ready to replace me for 3dollars less an hr and make pipe runs look like art. perfectly spaced well thought out racks that are laid out with a laser.

commercial is very competitive for us hired hands. if your ever gonna work in schools or hospitals you need to know how to build a good rack and the proper way to use it. its all about looks and quality.

and if a mexican is doing it its all about looks. pull boxes? 360 deg max? no savy!! no joke i have pulled 12 10awg threw one 3/4 150 feet with 400+ deg of bend. it just takes 6 men, a good head, a strong rope, and alot of soap


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## erics37

walkerj said:


> This may help


I don't remember, but I'm fairly sure that I drew that and posted it on MH a year or three ago when I was still an apprentice :laughing:


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Well, in my conduuit alone I had 2 hots, N, and a G. From the gutter I ran mine with someone elses conductors so it brought it up to 8. Just enough space according to the nec.


 
so you had 8 wires in a pipe what size were they in a half inch pipe...


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> so you had 8 wires in a pipe what size were they in a half inch pipe...



12 AWG

I thin I said 10AWG earlier but I was mistaken, its 12.


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## walkerj

erics37 said:


> I don't remember, but I'm fairly sure that I drew that and posted it on MH a year or three ago when I was still an apprentice :laughing:


That is very possible as I know it isn't mine. 
I save most pics other people post, especially good smart-ass ones like that.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> 12 AWG
> 
> I thin I said 10AWG earlier but I was mistaken, its 12.


 Ahhh that is better ..

How many #12 in the pipe are you running...


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> 12 AWG
> 
> I thin I said 10AWG earlier but I was mistaken, its 12.


Thats fine we forgive you...:thumbup:


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> Ahhh that is better ..
> 
> How many #12 in the pipe are you running...


In my conduit alone I had 4, and from the gutter I had to squeeze in with someone elses 4 conductors in there. It was just an ordeal is all .


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> In my conduit alone I had 4, and from the gutter I had to squeeze in with someone elses 4 conductors in there. It was just an ordeal is all .


So there were 8#12's in the pipe when you were done with the pull..

Right?


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> So there were 8#12's in the pipe when you were done with the pull..
> 
> Right?


Well from the gutter to the panel ya. There were only so many pieces of conduit going from the gutter to panel that I had to use an existing piece with 4 conductors already in place.


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## TOOL_5150

This reminds me when I thought my helper and I could pull 3 4/0 [AL XHHW] and a #6 [CU THHN] Through 2" emt, 180 degrees of bends for roughly 40 feet without any lube. I was dead wrong. We got to the 2nd 90 and it stopped, I broke the pulling rope. We took apart the 2nd 90 and pushed from there.

I have nothing else to add to this loony tune thread.

~Matt


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Well from the gutter to the panel ya. There were only so many pieces of conduit going from the gutter to panel that I had to use an existing piece with 4 conductors already in place.



So you pulled 4 more conductors in...Right.?


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## Fiki

HARRY304E said:


> So you pulled 4 more conductors in...Right.?


Yes sir, sorry if it was hard to understand that haha. Made sense to me when I was typing it.


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## HARRY304E

Fiki said:


> Yes sir, sorry if it was hard to understand that haha. Made sense to me when I was typing it.



Your quote is welcome.. we are here to work together:thumbup:


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## Smoke

electrolover said:


> no joke i have pulled 12 10awg threw one 3/4 150 feet with 400+ deg of bend. it just takes 6 men, a good head, a strong rope, and alot of soap


i want to meet the guy who ran that pipe....
so can fire him on the spot. 
hacks


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## electrolover

Smoke said:


> i want to meet the guy who ran that pipe....
> so can fire him on the spot.
> hacks



the worst pull i have ever done was one circuit in 1/2 in. i dont know the length or deg because it was all out of sight but i used a vac to get a string in and pulled in a 1/4 rope. it took three of us to pull it and by the time it got there the insulation was loose on the wire. it had been stretched to 14 awg copper. thats the way it is sometimes. you can really tell the difference in quality when your in a 30 year old building verses one built last week, especially the pipe runs!


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## lefleuron

This is the most interesting thread I have ever read! 

Have you ever thought about becoming a policeman? After reading this thread all the way through, I am positive you have LMS, and that will always make your job harder as an electrician.

That is why I asked about law enforcement, that is the one occupation where candidates must have LMS to excel- its what makes them the best of the best.
Maybe its not too late to change your career path?


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## electrolover

lefleuron said:


> This is the most interesting thread I have ever read!
> 
> Have you ever thought about becoming a policeman? After reading this thread all the way through, I am positive you have LMS, and that will always make your job harder as an electrician.
> 
> That is why I asked about law enforcement, that is the one occupation where candidates must have LMS to excel- its what makes them the best of the best.
> Maybe its not too late to change your career path?



maybe some folks give a sh1t about quality work unlike jake leg, _....**comments removed**..._


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