# Prayers for my local utility



## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Hi everyone, tonight has been a tragic evening, we just had a storm knock out a 12,470 volt line in my neighborhood. As we all know, generators are becoming increasingly popular and help us out with power outages, using one might seem simple but properly hooking one up to the electrical system in a house should be done carefully and professionally using a transfer switch. Tonight during the storm, a tree took out a 12,470 3 phase distribution line, and a resident had a new generac system installed incorrectly without a transfer switch, they switched their generator on and it backed through the pole transformer and energized the primary to 12,470 volts. As the linemen were working on restoring a broken pole, one of the crew members came into contact with the energized 12,470 line, God must have been with his soul because he only sustained severe third degree burns, he is in the hospital being treated as i type this out, please be careful using and installing home generators, it could be someone else's life on the line, literally.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Criminal negligence on whoever installed that.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

TGGT said:


> Criminal negligence on whoever installed that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It was the resident that had installed it, local utility is taking this into legal action


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Rule number one......Its not dead till its grounded.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

gpop said:


> Rule number one......Its not dead till its grounded.


He suffered severe 3rd degree burns from his right arm down to the right side of his ribs, im good friends with one of the linemen that were on the job at the time, he said he looked up and all he saw was the bright blue arc with the angry 60hz sound, hes at the hospital with him, visited him after the did all the major treatments, the guy said when it happened, it was fast, he could taste the electrical current, it was like the taste when sticking your tongue to a 9v battery but 1000 times more powerful, all he saw was pitch black, and slowly his vision began to turn a bright white, he couldn't stand up in his bucket, he was barely moving, still had conscious but barely any vision, he still felt like the current was rushing through him but it was tingly. He is still being treated, i will update yall often, the linework field is a dangerous trade, any electrical trade is dangerous, especially to those of whom don't know what they are doing, like I said, a simple mistake could put an innocent persons life on the line, literally


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

This angers me in ways words cannot convey. Why can't people just do the right thing?

Here's to hoping that lineman makes a speedy recovery.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Sorry to hear about the accident.
Very sad.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Metersocket648 said:


> Hi everyone, tonight has been a tragic evening, we just had a storm knock out a 12,470 volt line in my neighborhood. As we all know, generators are becoming increasingly popular and help us out with power outages, using one might seem simple but properly hooking one up to the electrical system in a house should be done carefully and professionally using a transfer switch. Tonight during the storm, a tree took out a 12,470 3 phase distribution line, and a resident had a new generac system installed incorrectly without a transfer switch, they switched their generator on and it backed through the pole transformer and energized the primary to 12,470 volts. As the linemen were working on restoring a broken pole, one of the crew members came into contact with the energized 12,470 line, God must have been with his soul because he only sustained severe third degree burns, he is in the hospital being treated as i type this out, please be careful using and installing home generators, it could be someone else's life on the line, literally.


Thank you for posting this. I wanted to thank your post but it seemed off to thank a post that shared such bad news. So, thanks for sharing that.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

oldsparky52 said:


> Thank you for posting this. I wanted to thank your post but it seemed off to thank a post that shared such bad news. So, thanks for sharing that.


I liked it just for the fact of sharing.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

gpop said:


> Rule number one......Its not dead till its grounded.


This is what I was taught. We had to install ground clamps before any work could be done. If upstream equipment blew up because some one screwed up energizing it of it tough luck you just saved a life at the site.
Cowboy


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Sad very sad..... Yes the lines should have been grounded before work started. Working during a storm and pressure to get customers online might have played a part in this terrible event. As for the homeowner who improperly wired his generator. He will probably be in a world of hurt over this and if he has a conscience he will have to carry this with him for the rest of his life.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Easy said:


> Sad very sad..... Yes the lines should have been grounded before work started.
> 
> When I was working at an open pit mine we had an instructor from Texas come out and explain to us with a model how to ground distribution lines. It was FAR more complicated and involved than I had imagined. Basically 2 sets of 2 grounds and work in the middle. The speed of light is awfully fast. He showed us with 12v dc how it really worked.
> I hope they convict the HO on attempted murder. Because that is what it was.
> 3rd degree burns might be enough to end his career or life. Worse is the recovery and the chance of MRSA which will be ever present for some time.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Easy said:


> Sad very sad..... Yes the lines should have been grounded before work started. Working during a storm and pressure to get customers online might have played a part in this terrible event. As for the homeowner who improperly wired his generator. He will probably be in a world of hurt over this and if he has a conscience he will have to carry this with him for the rest of his life.


Chances are the homeowner is more worried about the lawsuit than a guy getting hurt


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## Shake&Bake (Sep 1, 2014)

This is very sad to hear and more than likely the H.O. installed themselves to save a few bucks. I have always wondered why H.O.'s will question the price of electrical and not so much other trades. 

I wish this lineman a speedy and functional recovery.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Update: he is on his way to a speedy recovery, they spent hours last night treating his burns, he is still getting treatments here and there, expected release from the hospital is Wednesday April 14th. He is doing well, he wants to get back to work asap, of course he has to attend physical therapy, but other than that, he is doing great, I will keep yall posted


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Thank you for posting. Is there any link to an article about the accident? One that I could print out to keep in the truck?
Many times I have seen this type of installation. They would use the power inlet but no transfer switch or isolator. When I bring it to the HO attention I sort of get the feeling that they think I am selling something. Afterall an electrician did the installation. Often I am told by the GC I am working for to mind my own business and do my work.

You Tube is notorious for promoting this type of installation. Why aren't they banned?


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

kb1jb1 said:


> Thank you for posting. Is there any link to an article about the accident? One that I could print out to keep in the truck?
> Many times I have seen this type of installation. They would use the power inlet but no transfer switch or isolator. When I bring it to the HO attention I sort of get the feeling that they think I am selling something. Afterall an electrician did the installation. Often I am told by the GC I am working for to mind my own business and do my work.
> 
> You Tube is notorious for promoting this type of installation. Why aren't they banned?


I haven't seen any article anywhere about it, but I'm sure there will be soon, if i do find one, I'll share a link, and yes, youtube should really snuff out the DIY electrical videos,


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

After Super Storm Sandy, there were two houses locally that went on fire from the back feed method. The utility power came back on and the generators smoked. One on a porch and the other in a garage.


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## Shake&Bake (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks for the update Metersocket! 

I agree with all that mention youtube, I even dislike HGTV & the DIY channel. To me more that just a disclaimer should be required, maybe a short video of an arc flash to show the potential of shoddy or incomplete installs.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Probably won't see many details in the media until "allegedly" gets fully investigated.

Speedy recovery.


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## Phillipd (Jan 7, 2020)

Metersocket648 said:


> Hi everyone, tonight has been a tragic evening, we just had a storm knock out a 12,470 volt line in my neighborhood. As we all know, generators are becoming increasingly popular and help us out with power outages, using one might seem simple but properly hooking one up to the electrical system in a house should be done carefully and professionally using a transfer switch. Tonight during the storm, a tree took out a 12,470 3 phase distribution line, and a resident had a new generac system installed incorrectly without a transfer switch, they switched their generator on and it backed through the pole transformer and energized the primary to 12,470 volts. As the linemen were working on restoring a broken pole, one of the crew members came into contact with the energized 12,470 line, God must have been with his soul because he only sustained severe third degree burns, he is in the hospital being treated as i type this out, please be careful using and installing home generators, it could be someone else's life on the line, literally.


Prayers sent from here


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

wcord said:


> Chances are the homeowner is more worried about the lawsuit than a guy getting hurt


Your probably right. Some people don't seem to feel the pain they cause to other especially if they don't know the person. 
Hopefully the HO has lots of money that can be transferred to the injured party. Unfortunately there is no amount of money that would be comparable to the pain and suffering this poor guy has to go through. I really wish him the best outcome. Burns are a bad. 

The HO should have to watch some of the videos of what happens to people who suffer ark flash at 12kv.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I bet the HO felt like some sort of a big-shot because he had a generator during an outage...........bet he doesn't feel like such a big-shot now......

I'm glad he is recovering. Shocks and burns are the worst.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Phillipd said:


> Prayers sent from here


Same here.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Easy said:


> Your probably right. Some people don't seem to feel the pain they cause to other especially if they don't know the person.
> Hopefully the HO has lots of money that can be transferred to the injured party. Unfortunately there is no amount of money that would be comparable to the pain and suffering this poor guy has to go through. I really wish him the best outcome. Burns are a bad.
> 
> The HO should have to watch some of the videos of what happens to people who suffer ark flash at 12kv.


From my experience, conversing with HOs, they really seem to underestimate the power of any distribution line, it aint like your average 120/240 mains, its 12kV, your blood literally boils inside of your veins, its nothing close to a little surprise jolt from your receptacle, you're being cooked from the inside out,


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## AKGreen (Feb 3, 2021)

I'm curious. How did a Generac get installed without a building permit, which (in NC, at least) requires a transfer switch? I just got a permit to install one, and, for one thing, the propane company will not install the tank without an inspection. And, I will need panel mods, which involves the utility, and therefore inspectors.


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## Nomad860 (May 1, 2016)

Metersocket648 said:


> Hi everyone, tonight has been a tragic evening, we just had a storm knock out a 12,470 volt line in my neighborhood. As we all know, generators are becoming increasingly popular and help us out with power outages, using one might seem simple but properly hooking one up to the electrical system in a house should be done carefully and professionally using a transfer switch. Tonight during the storm, a tree took out a 12,470 3 phase distribution line, and a resident had a new generac system installed incorrectly without a transfer switch, they switched their generator on and it backed through the pole transformer and energized the primary to 12,470 volts. As the linemen were working on restoring a broken pole, one of the crew members came into contact with the energized 12,470 line, God must have been with his soul because he only sustained severe third degree burns, he is in the hospital being treated as i type this out, please be careful using and installing home generators, it could be someone else's life on the line, literally.


If god was truly with him he would have been uninjured. We are on our own in this world, no mythical heroes required.


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## Mr. Skookum (Mar 9, 2016)

I'm interested in knowing more details of how the accident happened if they become available. When I talk about the potential for generators to cause backfeeding accidents, people often express how unlikely they think such an accident is. They usually mention their belief that a small generator would stall or be unable to start with the load on it created by other customers connected to the same transformer and also possibly by other loads on the primary side. Details of actual accidents are hard to come by, so it would be good to have a concrete example of exactly how a backfeeding accident happened that involved utility workers and a generator at a residence.

Some questions I have:

Did the accident happen immediately at the transformer serving the customer operating the generator?
Was the customer operating the generator the only customer served by the transformer?
Was the primary of the transformer serving the customer operating the generator isolated from the primary feeder?
Were the lines not grounded for safety during the repair? If not, why weren't they?
How was the generator found? Could it be heard from where the accident happened?
Was it a portable generator or a standby generator intended for permanent installation?


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## Arc Phlash (Apr 26, 2021)

Mr. Skookum said:


> I'm interested in knowing more details of how the accident happened if they become available. When I talk about the potential for generators to cause backfeeding accidents, people often express how unlikely they think such an accident is. They usually mention their belief that a small generator would stall or be unable to start with the load on it created by other customers connected to the same transformer and also possibly by other loads on the primary side. Details of actual accidents are hard to come by, so it would be good to have a concrete example of exactly how a backfeeding accident happened that involved utility workers and a generator at a residence.
> 
> Some questions I have:
> 
> ...


Don't hold your breath waiting for answers. 

Most accidents involving linemen initially thought to be caused by lines backfed by portable generators turn out to be caused by something else. These accidents have attained urban legend status. It's like razor blades in Halloween candy. It's plausible but only happens extremely rarely. These accidents require the right circumstances coupled with serious negligence on both the parts of the generator operator and linemen.

A few years ago, several colleagues and I were tasked with researching this kind of accident to better understand the frequency and circumstances in which they happen. We found a handful of vague news reports concerning supposed instances of these accidents, but we struggled to find official documentation or accident reports. I think we found a total of two or three officially documented instances of a portable generator electrocuting a utility worker. One of which was this case. We found several industrial accidents involving generators backfeeding lines, but they didn't involve portable generators and utility linemen. Our research wasn't exhaustive, so I'm sure there are cases we didn't uncover. However, I feel confident that the perceived risk of this kind of accident is way, way greater than the actual risk.

You can't control what some yahoo is going to do with his portable generator, but the good news is these accidents are extremely rare and nearly 100% preventable by adhering to safety protocols already in place by virtually every American utility company.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I think its a bit interesting that a small generator can fill up a transformer like that without overloading itself.


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## batwing44 (Feb 2, 2010)

Any follow up on this sad incident? I searched on line but could not find any info.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

A newspaper reference would be nice to copy and keep to show people. Some homeowners think I am upsetting a job when I say they need a transfer switch or isolation means.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> A newspaper reference would be nice to copy and keep to show people. Some homeowners think I am upsetting a job when I say they need a transfer switch or isolation means.


Especially if it showed the homeowner being heavily fined and/or going to jail.


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

wcord said:


> Chances are the homeowner is more worried about the lawsuit than a guy getting hurt


Lawsuit hell! The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers has committed to seeking Criminally Reckless Maiming or Manslaughter charges as appropriate; the language of the statutes varies from State to State; against anyone who injures or kills a lineman by an unlawful generator connection without regard to the Union membership status of the Lineman. A lawsuit should be the least of this bozo's troubles. 

-- 
Tom Horne


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

Southeast Power said:


> I think its a bit interesting that a small generator can fill up a transformer like that without overloading itself.


Fill Up? Now there's a term I hadn't seen used in electrical work before. The states of Georgia and South Carolina both did studies of there multiple electrocutions a during hurricane recovery decades ago. *IF* memory serves there were less than 10 cases between the 2 states. Only 4, I think, involved generator back feeds. Only 2 of the 4 back feed decedents were employed as lineman. The study found a commonality between the 4 back feed deaths. The transformers or lines involved were isolated by extensive storm damage. The generators involved were only energizing a small section of line in the destroyed overhead plant. 3 of the decedents were not engaged in work on lines when they were electrocuted. The lineman who was actually working on overhead plant was engaged in installing grounds when he was electrocuted. He may have let his guard down in the belief that the lines in that area were broken in too many places to be connected to any source of current. The lineman who was not engaged in overhead line work attempted to move a downed line and was wearing the wrong rating of gloves. He was working by truck scene lighting. He apparently mistook a feeder for a lower voltage local service line. Yes I know my terms are wrong. I'm a retired inside guy. A tree trimmer working to create access for line crews came into contact with a back fed local line amongst the foliage of the downed trees in the dark. A meter reader was on his way to let the family of an electrically powered medical equipment dependent relative who's battery back up was failing that the power would soon be back on. When he found his way blocked by downed trees he attempted to cross over a chain link fence which had been energized by a downed line energized by a back feed. It's not always linemen who are maimed or killed. It is often associated craft people who had not the training or equipment to protect themselves. Having everyone engaged in electrical restoration work wear some sort of non contact electrical field detector might work to prevent many of these deaths but I don't know if such a device is available, reliable, nor affordable. 

When I was taking my firefighter scene safety training the instructor showed us an incident video of medics working on a patient from a motor vehicle accident. Lines had been broken free of the insulators at the pole that one of the vehicles slammed into after being deflected off of the roadway. One of the medics was acting as the team lead giving directions on the care of the patient. Unlike the firefighters on scene he was not wearing a helmet. he backed up one step and the back of his head touched a line. There was a visible arc and he died instantly. They should not have begun care in proximity to those lines until after the truckies had pulled those sagging lines back with what we call a PEPCO rope. Those are provided by our local electrical utility for moving downed lines. They are polypropylene and each end is tied to a steel rod ~6 inches long. Rings are welded to each end at right angles to each other. No matter how that thing lands one of those rings will be sticking up and can be snagged by a Ladder trucks longest pike pole. Either of the ring bars are thrown over the line and then hooked with the fiberglass pike pole reaching under the line. It end up with both ends of the rope on one side with the downed power line in between. Using the 100 foot line at it's looped back 50 foot effective length the line is then pulled clear of the previously trapped person and physical extraction and medical rescue begin simultaneously. It is never used except during training or when a person is trapped. In 45 years as an active volunteer firefighter in a busy firehouse I used it once and saw it used maybe 3 other times. On 2 different occasions I resorted to the use of fire truck tire chains to ground out a downed line. It took as many as 5 throws to have one land on the arcing point which is a good thing because fire trucks only carry 6 chains but it worked. Each time the chain landed on the arc there would be a sound like a shotgun blast and then another. And last the third. No one should take this as gospel but in our area the overhead line circuit breakers will re-close twice after opening on a fault. Once it opens for that last time there is no way that anyone can get it to re-close other than to de-energize it, ground it out, manually reset it, remove the grounding, and resupply it from it's source. 

-- 
Tom Horne


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

micromind said:


> Especially if it showed the homeowner being heavily fined and/or going to jail.



That probably will not happen. Im guessing a slap on the wrist as he can claim stupidity unless he has received electrical training. His homeowners insurance will pay the max of the policy and the poco will pay the rest of the claim plus a fine. 

Ive seen the power company accidentally close in a remote tie and start 25kv generators during a requested power outage. Power outage was meant to be to check something not to touch anything as it was not grounded and the jacks were still in. Burnt the hell out of 2 guys but they survived. End of the day the lawyers went after who had the most money.


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## batwing44 (Feb 2, 2010)

batwing44 said:


> Any follow up on this sad incident? I searched on line but could not find any info.


Again I ask, Any follow up on this sad incident? I am still trying to find out details, a published news report would be nice, is it bs or? 


batwing44 said:


> Any follow up on this sad incident? I searched on line but could not find any info.


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