# Who does residential in Miami?



## Natan (May 27, 2013)

I have a question for you guys.

I spoke with the training coordinator of the MIAMI local (IBEW 349) and he mentioned that this local does very little residential. Who does residential in Miami then ?


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Non-Union?


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Non-Union?


Yup.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

Thank you guys. Is there any Association / organization doing residential then ? 

Does ABC (www.abc.org) do residential for example?

How much do residential electricians make an hour? The gentleman told me residential costs more than commercial, this is why the Union does very little of it.

There must be a lot of $$$ involved, considering the lots of people who live in Miami and all the hotels, restaurants, bars, etc.

I wonder if residential is bigger than commercial (industrial).


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## Ozzy1990 (Jan 24, 2013)

Illegals


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## southvalleysparky (Jul 25, 2013)

Natan said:


> The gentleman told me residential costs more than commercial, this is why the Union does very little of it.


This is backwards. Union contractors 99% of the time bid large scale jobs where profit margins are larger to make them more competitive with companies that have a lower wage rate. On a $5k-$10k job paying a first year apprentice $12-$14 an hour plus full health benefits and retirement is not viable because you're bidding against a guy paying $10 an hour plus a 401k for a similar worker. Seems like a small difference, but it's huge.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Natan said:


> I have a question for you guys.
> 
> I spoke with the training coordinator of the MIAMI local (IBEW 349) and he mentioned that this local does very little residential. Who does residential in Miami then ?






Snow Birds and 28 kinds of Third World .





Pete


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Chicago has to be the only city that the words "residential union electrician" are ever used consecutively.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, they call them flatters. We have building called 2 flats and 3 flats in the city. I guess that flat thing stuck. They are piping maniacs. Not uncommon to see a guy throw in and I mean THROW…. IN 1000ft in a 8 hrs day. The union also has a R card division.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

SVT CAMR said:


> Yes, they call the flatters. We have building called 2 flats and 3 flats in the city. I guess that flat thing stuck. They are piping maniacs. Not uncommon to see a guy throw in and I mean THROW…. IN 1000ft in a 8 hrs day. The union also has a R card division.


That sounds like quality work to me. :no:


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

MTW said:


> That sounds like quality work to me. :no:


It's not a car show. it just has to meet code and work.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Natan said:


> Thank you guys. Is there any Association / organization doing residential then ?
> 
> Does ABC (www.abc.org) do residential for example?
> 
> ...


The last time I was in Fla. my waiter was an electrician and said he makes more money waiting tables.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

Ozzy1990 said:


> Illegals


It cannot be illegals if they get paid more than an IBEW JM……


[By the way, are you Australian? Ozzy….]


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

southvalleysparky said:


> This is backwards. Union contractors 99% of the time bid large scale jobs where profit margins are larger to make them more competitive with companies that have a lower wage rate. On a $5k-$10k job paying a first year apprentice $12-$14 an hour plus full health benefits and retirement is not viable because you're bidding against a guy paying $10 an hour plus a 401k for a similar worker. Seems like a small difference, but it's huge.


What you say makes sense with what the guy said. Union contractors bid large INDUSTRIAL jobs, because if they bid small residential jobs, they would need to pay their JMs more and profits would be small or they would have a loss.

Does it make sense?


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

pete87 said:


> Snow Birds and 28 kinds of Third World .
> 
> Pete


What do you mean?


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

Bkessler said:


> Chicago has to be the only city that the words "residential union electrician" are ever used consecutively.


Do you mean that residential union electricians practically do not exist and residential is only done by Non-Union electricians?


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

SVT CAMR said:


> The last time I was in Fla. my waiter was an electrician and said he makes more money waiting tables.


That sucks. However, what kind of electrician? Did he have any experience?

A Union JM in South FL gets $27.5 / hour if I remember correctly and an apprentice starts at about $14/hour the first year.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Natan said:


> That sucks. However, what kind of electrician? Did he have any experience?
> 
> A Union JM in South FL gets $27.5 / hour if I remember correctly and an apprentice starts at about $14/hour the first year.


My bad. When I made that statement I did not realize it was in the union section.

I have no idea was his status or experience was.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Natan said:


> Do you mean that residential union electricians practically do not exist and residential is only done by Non-Union electricians?


Pretty much. It is tough for residential electricians to make a living, especially with Home Depot telling everyone they can do it themselves ( and puts all the material pricing out there in the open so marking it up is more difficult ) - I wager that really cuts into the profit margin - and union workers make too much to allow for any really profitability in that market.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Natan said:


> I have a question for you guys.
> 
> I spoke with the training coordinator of the MIAMI local (IBEW 349) and he mentioned that this local does very little residential. Who does residential in Miami then ?


You might be interested that electricians don't do not residential units in Miami.
It's more like very entry level piece workers, no licensed person within 100 miles.
High rises were 100% union until the early 80s, them the IEC and the ABC deluded our license laws and then everybody became paid as helpers.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

SVT CAMR said:


> Yes, they call them flatters. We have building called 2 flats and 3 flats in the city. I guess that flat thing stuck. They are piping maniacs. Not uncommon to see a guy throw in and I mean THROW…. IN 1000ft in a 8 hrs day. The union also has a R card division.


When I was coming up in the trade, everything was piped here.
10 bundles of 1/2" moved really fast then.
1000' a day was not unreasonable


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> Chicago has to be the only city that the words "residential union electrician" are ever used consecutively.


Not completely true as there are lots of them in Toronto. Local 353 is one of the biggest in the whole IBEW(so I was told?) and has two entire divisions for residential guys - high rise condo towers and "house wireman" which essentially limits them to single family dwellings, townhomes and small apartment buildings.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Natan said:


> What do you mean?


 The Trade People from the North are the Snow Birds 


28 different kinds of Spanish is spoken in Miami . The third world has many countries .


Chicago will be in better shape with the wiring in pipe .



Pete


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

jrannis said:


> When I was coming up in the trade, everything was piped here.
> 10 bundles of 1/2" moved really fast then.
> 1000' a day was not unreasonable




I assume you mean Piped in Florida ? 

If they put EMT in Floor Pours , I hope they pulled a ground . There cement quality was always suspect .




Pete


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

eejack said:


> Pretty much. It is tough for residential electricians to make a living, especially with Home Depot telling everyone they can do it themselves ( and puts all the material pricing out there in the open so marking it up is more difficult ) - I wager that really cuts into the profit margin - and union workers make too much to allow for any really profitability in that market.


Thank you very much for your reply. Much appreciated. Home Depot can even tell people they can do it themselves, but it is impossible and even if they manage to do sth themselves, I bet the results are disastrous. 

Going back to what the guy told me though (residential not done but IBEW electricians because it "costs" too much), made me wonder if residential electricians then get paid more than commercial electricians in the Miami area.

Or is this a wrong assumption ?


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

jrannis said:


> You might be interested that electricians don't do not residential units in Miami.
> It's more like very entry level piece workers, no licensed person within 100 miles.
> High rises were 100% union until the early 80s, them the IEC and the ABC deluded our license laws and then everybody became paid as helpers.


Thank you. Ok, entry level. Can an entry level electrician install a security (cameras) system in a house for example? Can he wire the gates or the garage door of a house for example - just to make an example of "easy" things ??

This is what I do not understand. According to what you guys say, it seems like anyone can do residential.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Not completely true as there are lots of them in Toronto. Local 353 is one of the biggest in the whole IBEW(so I was told?) and has two entire divisions for residential guys - high rise condo towers and "house wireman" which essentially limits them to single family dwellings, townhomes and small apartment buildings.


Hi, things going really well in Calgary, eh ? With the booming oil industry….


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

pete87 said:


> The Trade People from the North are the Snow Birds
> 
> 28 different kinds of Spanish is spoken in Miami . The third world has many countries .
> 
> ...


Oh ok, I knew about the Snow Birds, I thought you meant sth else.

I do not know about residential in Chicago, but commercial is apparently doing fine, even though there are quite some JMs on the books, I heard. However the IBEW electricians who work get a good $43/hour….


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Natan said:


> Going back to what the guy told me though (residential not done but IBEW electricians because it "costs" too much), made me wonder if residential electricians then get paid more than commercial electricians in the Miami area.
> 
> Or is this a wrong assumption ?


Generally speaking, across the country, residential has the lowest wages. Generally, IBEW electricians are too expensive to do residential.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Natan, are you an electrician? Are you in 134? Are you thinking of moving to Florida? If you do you will need to get a journeyman's license.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

eejack said:


> Generally speaking, across the country, residential has the lowest wages. Generally, IBEW electricians are too expensive to do residential.


Ok…! I see what you mean now. Before I was seeing it from the employer's perspective, meaning a union contractor who would not do residential because he would need to pay his JM employees more (than the IBEW's hourly rate).


Thanks.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

SVT CAMR said:


> Natan, are you an electrician? Are you in 134? Are you thinking of moving to Florida? If you do you will need to get a journeyman's license.


Thank you for the information. I am not.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

pete87 said:


> I assume you mean Piped in Florida ?
> 
> If they put EMT in Floor Pours , I hope they pulled a ground . There cement quality was always suspect .
> 
> ...


Sorry, not Florida, Miami-Dade county. 
If it was in EMT, it didn't get a ground wire. Not even a stove or water heater.
It was only in the pool equipment circuit.
I know the problem you mention with the concrete. It's mostly in areas right on the water. The rebar in balconies and parking garages in condos blow out the concrete.
Way back, washed beach sand was rumored to have been used in concrete, as some of the buildings are really bad.
We don't really see much problems with EMT in the average slab work.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Natan said:


> Thank you. Ok, entry level. Can an entry level electrician install a security (cameras) system in a house for example? Can he wire the gates or the garage door of a house for example - just to make an example of "easy" things ??
> 
> This is what I do not understand. According to what you guys say, it seems like anyone can do residential.


No, not just entry level jobs, residential is just production work here, tasks are easy to master in just a few days and if a guy wants more money, they turn him over and get another one. It's all piecework. The guys could never be electricians with the training they receive.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

jrannis said:


> No, not just entry level jobs, residential is just production work here, tasks are easy to master in just a few days and if a guy wants more money, they turn him over and get another one. It's all piecework. The guys could never be electricians with the training they receive.


Is residential done by big companies (that pay their guy little) then? So no single electricians (one-man company) working on their own and doing only residential work?


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

jrannis said:


> No, not just entry level jobs, residential is just production work here, tasks are easy to master in just a few days and if a guy wants more money, they turn him over and get another one. It's all piecework.


Not true of the high end dwellings.



> The guys could never be electricians with the training they receive.


True


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Not true of the high end dwellings.
> 
> 
> 
> True


Production apartment buildings and tract homes, marginally trained pieceworkers,
Big fancy McMansions, are small contractor speciality work
We never see residential work as typical electrical contractors. It's a penny business here unless it's very high end or custom like Chris mentioned.
Lots of residential service work with decent margins can be found.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

jrannis said:


> Sorry, not Florida, Miami-Dade county.
> If it was in EMT, it didn't get a ground wire. Not even a stove or water heater.
> It was only in the pool equipment circuit.
> I know the problem you mention with the concrete. It's mostly in areas right on the water. The rebar in balconies and parking garages in condos blow out the concrete.
> ...




So true , I know , No Ground wire pulled .

I am also wondering about ... " Post Stressed Concrete " Have you ever seen the Blowouts ? Maybe construction method ... Maybe concrete ... Maybe Both 




Pete


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