# 20x20' room recessed cans



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TimChaput69 said:


> Hey guys...I'm looking to put some recessed cans in our family room. The room is 20'x20'. I only want effect lighting, no wall wallwashers, or big-ass 6" cans!! I just want some low level,dimmable, maybe 4" cans. I like the effect of MR16 bulbs but not sure if they are dimmable or not. Again I'm sorry for being an industrial puke and not knowing what I should install so (God Help Me) I'm asking you guys!! Has to be IC rated, but if worse comes to worse I could make boxes to go over the cans. I have an open attic with an r60 rating but could adjust for the lights.....let me know of some options....thanks in advance.:thumbsup:


Mr 16 lamps are dimmable,But if you plan on using LED or cfl's then they must be the dimmable type and the dimmer switches should be rated for use with LED's and CFL's.:thumbsup:


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

no....I'm pretty sure I want MR16s. No cfl's or LED's. I want small, and I want dimmable with really good color quality, but not sure if there is something better out there.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TimChaput69 said:


> no....I'm pretty sure I want MR16s. No cfl's or LED's. I want small, and I want dimmable with really good color quality, but not sure if there is something better out there.


The MR16's give good color but the new led's are better and are dimmable.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Im sure you know this but, the more lighting options the better.

Meaning, I would put the lights on more than one switch.


Inside,outside,middle.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Is this the type of lighting your looking for? Like a relaxing atmosphere?


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

That looks awsome!!!...but I only have 10" ceilings and we're only talking 4 cans. What I'm thinking is MR16's. but if LED's will put off the same color well then maybe I will consider those too....again I've seen MR16 in action, I haven't seen LED in action. Not really concerned with cost of lighting but with quality of lighting.


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## vinister (Apr 11, 2012)

the color of LED's sucks. I am seriously the biggest fan of LED's from an electrical perspective. I love everything about them except for the quality of light they produce. Which is, when you really think about it, the only part that really mattters. I have 8 MR16 halogens in my living room and they look awesome. They are on a dimmer and at around 50%, the glow is similar to what you would get from a campfire. very warm and relaxing, very "homey". I tried some LED retrofit bulbs, in "warm white". I was not pleased at all with the output. They are rated at 3000K, but such a narrow spectrum, that it is just stressful to be around. The halogens must be 2500-2700K, and a much wider spectrum, which is more natural feeling. 

I have ordered some 1/4 CTO film, its what they use in the movie and photography industries to lower the kelvin of LED lights into the range of halogen lights. It is a film that you cut to fit and lowers the color temperature by a few hundred kelvin. We will see what the results feel like, from the photo examples I have seen, it is what I am looking for. 

There is a company working on some led bulbs in the 2500K region. But it is a very inefficient region for led's to operate. You basically need to take a 3000K LED bulb, and filter away most of its efficient lighitng range, and you are left with much fewer lumens in the range you are looking for. They need to water-cool the bulbs in order to get enough lumens in the right color range. 

http://www.popsci.com/technology/ar...-cooled-led-bulb-will-light-your-house-edison

Go for MR16's on a dimmer - you won't be dissapointed. In the future, you can upgade the bulbs to LEDs when they figure out the color issue.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

360....that looks really cool, but thats "up" lighting. What I'm looking for is really sutle "down lighting, hence the 4" cans or MR's. again what I want is totally mood lighting not light to remove an appendix by!!!:thumbup:


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

vinister said:


> the color of LED's sucks. I am seriously the biggest fan of LED's from an electrical perspective. I love everything about them except for the quality of light they produce. Which is, when you really think about it, the only part that really mattters. I have 8 MR16 halogens in my living room and they look awesome. They are on a dimmer and at around 50%, the glow is similar to what you would get from a campfire. very warm and relaxing, very "homey". I tried some LED retrofit bulbs, in "warm white". I was not pleased at all with the output. They are rated at 3000K, but such a narrow spectrum, that it is just stressful to be around. The halogens must be 2500-2700K, and a much wider spectrum, which is more natural feeling.
> 
> I have ordered some 1/4 CTO film, its what they use in the movie and photography industries to lower the kelvin of LED lights into the range of halogen lights. It is a film that you cut to fit and lowers the color temperature by a few hundred kelvin. We will see what the results feel like, from the photo examples I have seen, it is what I am looking for.
> 
> ...


I have noticed that MR's have all the colors of the spectrum. there is blue,green, and yellow. I'm pretty sure thats why the color quality is there with those bulbs!!:thumbup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

TimChaput69 said:


> Hey guys...I'm looking to put some recessed cans in our family room. The room is 20'x20'. I only want effect lighting, no wall wallwashers, or big-ass 6" cans!! I just want some low level,dimmable, maybe 4" cans. I like the effect of MR16 bulbs but not sure if they are dimmable or not. Again I'm sorry for being an industrial puke and not knowing what I should install so (God Help Me) I'm asking you guys!! Has to be IC rated, but if worse comes to worse I could make boxes to go over the cans. I have an open attic with an r60 rating but could adjust for the lights.....let me know of some options....thanks in advance.:thumbsup:





TimChaput69 said:


> That looks awsome!!!...but I only have 10" ceilings and we're only talking 4 cans. What I'm thinking is MR16's. but if LED's will put off the same color well then maybe I will consider those too....again I've seen MR16 in action, I haven't seen LED in action. Not really concerned with cost of lighting but with quality of lighting.



10 Inch ceiling??  :laughing:


You are using 4 cans for a 20x20 room?

Is there a ceiling in place now or is this new work?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Tim if you do not want accent or hilight type lighting why do you want to use an MR16 or even a par 20? These are made for accent lighting.
Hat to say it but what you what for general lighting is a 5 or 6 inch can with a R30 lamp to get the spread you need. The ones you want will be spotty so if you go that route put in plenty and dim them.
JMHO


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

4 5" 75w BR30 halogens in the roughly 3'x3' to 4'x4' corners is common practice for a family room area. If you go with low voltage mr16's, you might find yourself wanting to add additional cans since you will have more deadspots.

If you go with 4" line voltage 50w bulbs, its going to be that annoying amount of light where you wish you had more.

Do you have a center fixture/fan light in your family room for lighting? If you have a center light fixture, you should be able to use the 4 4" line voltage cans or low voltage for supplemental lighting.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

for a 20 foot room i would go with at least 8 three inch cans. If your gonna go with MR16 there is no point in going with four inch.. unless you really like it. 
Halo actually makes a really nice four inch LED trim that is on the 2700 k scale. The color is nice and not to blueish but if your looking for warmer color go with the MR 16.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

captkirk said:


> for a 20 foot room i would go with at least 8 three inch cans. If your gonna go with MR16 there is no point in going with four inch.. unless you really like it.
> Halo actually makes a really nice four inch LED trim that is on the 2700 k scale. The color is nice and not to blueish but if your looking for warmer color go with the MR 16.


I always worry about glare/reflection off the tv when you put too many lights in a family room. Then you go to use a different trim, and find yourself with too many spotlights that don't brighten the general area or give a nice effect.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

All this ceiling light talk is foreign to me, I like the light from simple table lamps. :thumbup:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Why don't you just put a few sconses around the perimeter wall if you only want low level dimming. Quick and easy and energy efficient


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## RICK BOYD (Mar 10, 2008)

this shows some angles and spread patterns of various bulbs 
starting on page 114


http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...brary/literature/Halo/ADV051640_HaloTrack.swf


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

since your going with small cans 8 will lay down a nice blanket of general lighting...MR16's are not as bright as you think. And with a dimmer you can control the level. Go with a reflective trim or recessed wht baffle. And a wide angle bulb... You cant miss.. If you want to go LED stay away from the screw in bulb type... They are way to spoty imo....
I would add a few scones too. And a couple of table lamps is not a bad idea. 
You dont want to just have light coming from one direction... Thats how you light an office or work space not home. You want to avoid lighting fatigue... You want to use light to create some shadows to give the room some depth.
Most tv screens are anti glare. I have two four inch cans over my tv and i dont get any glare... If your that worried about it put them on a different switch..


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## RICK BOYD (Mar 10, 2008)

ooooh


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

captkirk said:


> since your going with small cans 8 will lay down a nice blanket of general lighting...MR16's are not as bright as you think. And with a dimmer you can control the level. Go with a reflective trim or recessed wht baffle. And a wide angle bulb... You cant miss.. If you want to go LED stay away from the screw in bulb type... They are way to spoty imo....
> I would add a few scones too. And a couple of table lamps is not a bad idea.
> You dont want to just have light coming from one direction... Thats how you light an office or work space not home. You want to avoid lighting fatigue... You want to use light to create some shadows to give the room some depth.
> Most tv screens are anti glare. I have two four inch cans over my tv and i dont get any glare... If your that worried about it put them on a different switch..


A 12v 50w mr16 is right around 1000lm's. Or it is roughly equivalent to a 120v 75w r30. (unless you are referring to a line voltage mr, which are junk anyway, and if you are talking a 3" can, maybe you're saying a line voltage 35w, which would be accurate with not a lot of light.....at all, pretty much a waste at that point). 


I'm also curious about the led claim that you make, and how screw in ones are some how more spotty. Can you clarify this statement?


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

Personally, I hate the light of an mr16. too hot where its aimed to be practically unuseable, causes temp blindness if you look at it, and everywhere else is cast in hard shadows.

Par all the way.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

TimChaput69 said:


> Hey guys...I'm looking to put some recessed cans in our family room. The room is 20'x20'. I only want effect lighting, no wall wallwashers, or big-ass 6" cans!! I just want some low level,dimmable, maybe 4" cans. I like the effect of MR16 bulbs but not sure if they are dimmable or not. Again I'm sorry for being an industrial puke and not knowing what I should install so (God Help Me) I'm asking you guys!! Has to be IC rated, but if worse comes to worse I could make boxes to go over the cans. I have an open attic with an r60 rating but could adjust for the lights.....let me know of some options....thanks in advance.:thumbsup:


Put a cheater cord on a couple of fixtures, get out your screwgun and play with them. It's not like your on a scheduled time frame.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

check that i was actually thinking of r20 leds. they only have led at the bottom as opposed the three littlenones i see on the mr16type I bought several types of R twenty LED bulbs and they all seem to make a spot on the floor pretty ugly in my opinion
I put in lots of 3 inch halo line voltage cans haven't had a problem yet sure you get an occasional bad connection but it's not any worse than the MR 16 low voltage


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