# cutting holes in drywall on ceiling to get thru joist when fishing romex?



## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

What size holes do you all normally cut?


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

i cut a strip long enough to access all the joist bays i need. seems to me that a long strip produces a cleaner patch then a bunch of holes.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

how far do you have to go..?and what are you trying to snake in


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

If you have to cut holes i agree with BWE ..... when you try to fade in 10 small holes it never looks quite right and its alot more efficient and quicker to try to work out of one long hole... One long strip is much easier to patch whether or not you or someone else is doing the patching.


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## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

About 8' on ceiling. However would like some input on long, short, close, far, down wall, across wall, you get the picture.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

4" down and a 4" hole,enough to get by the plate,and get the auger bit in and drill up.
Same on the ceiling,enough to be able to work the snake around.

Our ceilings are 'strapped' here, so once into the cavity we are free to rome.

I don't know how,nor would I have the patience to notch - strip or otherwise drill out every joist for a recessed light. Personally,I would take on a plumbers attitude.

"You want it there? No problem. Tear down the ceiling/wall-(what ever).":thumbup:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*cut holes*

we hardly ever cut holes anymore on high end fishing jobs


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I try to keep holes to a min.... Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but on most high hat jobs you have more than enough holes for the high hats to use as pull point and drill with long flex bit to each hole... It takes a lot of practice but ive come up with a really really good system and it works really well for me...


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Cletis said:


> we hardly ever cut holes anymore on high end fishing jobs


Surface mount?:whistling2:


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## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

captkirk said:


> I try to keep holes to a min.... Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but on most high hat jobs you have more than enough holes for the high hats to use as pull point and drill with long flex bit to each hole... It takes a lot of practice but ive come up with a really really good system and it works really well for me...


Well what is the system.....LOL


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Big Holes!!

Especially if you can easily get the sheetrock patched, you are working in area where you expect to run into piping from other trades, and you have to run FMC or some other unwieldy raceway.

Pictures below show a ceiling light retrofit where FMC is used. I had to use a 1" hole to fish 1/2" FMC. The slotted holes I cut in the sheet rock made it easy to get the drill aligned as well as giving me a look at what I was drilling into. There were several water pipes and ducts in the ceiling because it was below the kitchen. The light switch wall is common with the bathroom. The 3 gang you see is about 2" to the left of a 3/4" hot water line for the abovementioned kitchen.

A Fein multitool or similar works great for cutting holes in drywall. When installing the new drywall pieces, I put some 6-12" long 1/2" pine boards on each end of the hole. The boards are screwed to the existing sheet rock to form a solid surface to screw the new sheetrock into. Using this technique, you can get an even transition which is easy to patch. 

I use 3 layers of mud and sand each layer smooth before applying the next layer.

Usually I do not reuse the sheet rock pieces I cut out because they get broken by pulling up nails, and the textured finish is thick and harder to smooth over.

EJPHI


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I have read this in tricks of the trade and have used it a few times. Use a 4" hole saw and hole saw the sheetrock right on a stud. Then notch the stud, run the wire and put on a nail plate. Put the 4" sheetrock plug back over the hole and you are done. I would not try that with TJI joists though. Most of the time my sheetrock notches have looked like the ones in the picture.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*yep*



jbfan said:


> Surface mount?:whistling2:


Ewwwww  I hate that stuff



God man said:


> Well what is the system.....LOL


You know, combination of fishing through the switch hole through top plate, hooking and bringing to 1st channel of all the way depending on joist and drilling with flex bits through your can holes all the way (nice and slow as you poke through) then using the bit as fishing rod backwards. Also, we are very good at removing molding and crown to make our holes their (hidden). It's not easy at first but we try to do on only the upper echelon customers. Cheapo'l I just notch and patch. So

$100 / can poke holes 

$150 / can stealth


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Ewwwww  I hate that stuff
> 
> You know, combination of fishing through the switch hole through top plate, hooking and bringing to 1st channel of all the way depending on joist and drilling with flex bits through your can holes all the way (nice and slow as you poke through) then using the bit as fishing rod backwards. Also, we are very good at removing molding and crown to make our holes their (hidden). It's not easy at first but we try to do on only the upper echelon customers. Cheapo'l I just notch and patch. So
> 
> ...


Remove crown molding? How do you take down a piece that's painted without damage? And that has to be some huge molding to cover an area big enough to drill out the top plate....


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

RE: EJPHI-
When notching as in pic 1, I like to keep the width to 4-5",makes for a nice clean patch with a 6" knife. As opposed to doing 2 seams, now you have just one swipe with the knife.

Funny but,the bigger the easier to patch and blend.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

jbfan said:


> Surface mount?:whistling2:


 
Don't forget the sheetmetal cover!!!


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Hippie said:


> Remove crown molding? How do you take down a piece that's painted without damage? And that has to be some huge molding to cover an area big enough to drill out the top plate....



I stay away from this on the old Victorians,they are usually plaster.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I have always found if you cut out a 3" wide piece of rock any length needed with a small battery saw (I use a 9.6v makita with a 3.5" blade) at a 45deg bevel you don't normally have any screws or nails in the piece and it will go right back in with just joint compound and a 6" spackle knife will do a great job at making a smooth repair.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have always found if you cut out a 3" wide piece of rock any length needed with a small battery saw (I use a 9.6v makita with a 3.5" blade) at a 45deg bevel you don't normally have any screws or nails in the piece and it will go right back in with just joint compound and a 6" spackle knife will do a great job at making a smooth repair.


If you're not using tape, it's gonna crack.


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## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

From what it looks like some of you patch your own holes. If you patch your own holes how do you include that in your price and how long does it take you, I know you have to put a couple of coats on.

For those of you who don't patch how do you work that?


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

God man said:


> From what it looks like some of you patch your own holes. If you patch your own holes how do you include that in your price and how long does it take you, I know you have to put a couple of coats on.
> 
> For those of you who don't patch how do you work that?


 
I will put a patch on what I open but it's just closed up and needs a real spackle job and finishing by someone else.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

God man said:


> From what it looks like some of you patch your own holes. If you patch your own holes how do you include that in your price and how long does it take you, I know you have to put a couple of coats on.
> 
> For those of you who don't patch how do you work that?


Before I give them a price, I ask them if they would like for me to include the drywall patching and repainting of the ceiling


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> If you're not using tape, it's gonna crack.


 
I use paper tape, I just meant no nails or screws, the piece is held in place with compound. It saves from having to buy sheetrock and is the 3" opening is more than enough room to drill in and run your wiring.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

i usually use the 45min setting type mud. First cut holes and run the wires. Then replace rock and 1st coat. Then you can usually do 2nd coat in 1/2 and hour. Again 3rd coat in about half an hour. Come back the next day sand if needed and use some texture in a can, usually drys in about 20 minutes, and paint.


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## oldschool (Aug 2, 2008)

I have a few times

pulled the carpet back in a room above,
set my circ saw the depth of the subfloor,
cut out a slot, drilled and wired from above
roll carpet back down, kick it back on the tack strip and tuck it back under the baseboard


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

oldschool said:


> I have a few times
> 
> pulled the carpet back in a room above,
> set my circ saw the depth of the subfloor,
> ...


 
And have a soft spot in the floor for the life of the house.


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## oldschool (Aug 2, 2008)

MechanicalDVR said:


> And have a soft spot in the floor for the life of the house.


never know it was touched
cut within a foot of the baseboard, 2x4 blocks between floor joist, screws
your gold


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## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

mbednarik said:


> i usually use the 45min setting type mud. First cut holes and run the wires. Then replace rock and 1st coat. Then you can usually do 2nd coat in 1/2 and hour. Again 3rd coat in about half an hour. Come back the next day sand if needed and use some texture in a can, usually drys in about 20 minutes, and paint.


If you do that how is the inspector going to see the work?


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## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

Now that I think about it how many of you get this type of work inspected? I would think the inspector would have to see the work you did above the ceiling and that would add hours to the job. Please do not take this the wrong way I am just trying to get some pointers.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

God man said:


> Now that I think about it how many of you get this type of work inspected? I would think the inspector would have to see the work you did above the ceiling and that would add hours to the job. Please do not take this the wrong way I am just trying to get some pointers.


Never.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

God man said:


> If you do that how is the inspector going to see the work?


this would not require an inspection here. Only adding new circuits and/or major additions/remodels and new construction.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

would an inspector be concerned where holes are drilled i beams?
like in the middle of ceiling,or closer to walls for support?
drilling in middle of ceiling won't weaken beams?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Lep said:


> would an inspector be concerned where holes are drilled i beams?
> like in the middle of ceiling,or closer to walls for support?
> drilling in middle of ceiling won't weaken beams?


 
Actually, that's where you're supposed to drill. The middle 1/3.


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## wick19 (Apr 8, 2011)

Lep said:


> would an inspector be concerned where holes are drilled i beams?
> like in the middle of ceiling,or closer to walls for support?
> drilling in middle of ceiling won't weaken beams?



You can drill a joist at any point as long as you are 2" or more from the edge. No notching a joist in the middle 1/3. No drilling a beam.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

wick19 said:


> You can drill a joist at any point as long as you are 2" or more from the edge. No notching a joist in the middle 1/3. No drilling a beam.


Is there a code reference?


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## wick19 (Apr 8, 2011)

http://www22.pair.com/routt/building/handouts/notching.pdf


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Drill bits with flex adapter extensions and fish tape usually I have minimum damage if going along the joist but if going across them there are a few more holes. My spade bit extension and flex adapter can go almost 2' plus the length of the bit. I have some 1' extensions and a 2' extension I can use to limit the amount of holes in the wall or ceiling. I have not tried those really long flex bits yet.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

God man said:


> What size holes do you all normally cut?


I use a 4" hole saw and patch include that on the price.

When you cut the whole save the puck and have some strapping in the truck for this screw the puck back in and patch it saves you time and the holes will have to be patched anyways.:thumbsup:


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> Drill bits with flex adapter extensions and fish tape usually I have minimum damage if going along the joist but if going across them there are a few more holes. My spade bit extension and flex adapter can go almost 2' plus the length of the bit. I have some 1' extensions and a 2' extension I can use to limit the amount of holes in the wall or ceiling. I have not tried those really long flex bits yet.


I love the long flex bits, however its easy to break them if they run into a nail or when backing them out if they get stuck, which sucks since they're like $40 and up


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## Zparme (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm usually too paranoid to use the flex bits. I prefer cutting holes only because I'd hate to drill into something unseen.


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