# Bonding Question



## EMCorp (Jul 27, 2018)

I am wondering if I need to run a wire to bond the Neutral to Ground Bar in a Power Board.

We usually install basic residential GE Power Panels (TM2010CCU or TLM2412CCU) that always have a "Bonding Screw" in the neutral bar, so this is a little out of our scope:

A customer has requested a 400/240V, 3PH Power Board. Does the neutral bar need to bonded to the ground bar with a wire?

We only have 240V 1PH power supply to test the panel before shipping the shelter to the customer, so we are running one hot leg at a time, with the neutral and the ground connected, and the second hot capped. At the 15A/240V receptacle we are getting 17V with the breaker off. Could this be due to not being bonded?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Are you licensed to do electrical work? We really need you to fill out your profile so we know what we are dealing with. This may have to be done with a pc or mac, not a smart phone.


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## EMCorp (Jul 27, 2018)

No, I am not licensed, I'm the production Manager at an OEM manufacturing plant. We do very little/basic residential electrical installations. This is out of the realm of what we normally do.


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## EMCorp (Jul 27, 2018)

I don't even own a smart phone, I threw some very basic info up.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

Then you should head over to the DIY chat room not this one. This forum is for electricians only. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

"A customer has requested a 400/240V, 3PH Power Board" That is a British voltage system. Where is your customer located?


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## EMCorp (Jul 27, 2018)

Customer is in Saudi Arabia.

I was hoping since this isn't a DIY thing at home, I do this for a living, and we are a company with 20+ employees for the last 50 years, that it'd be considered professional enough. If this community feels otherwise, I can go somewhere else.


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## EMCorp (Jul 27, 2018)

Customer is in Saudi Arabia.

I was hoping since this isn't a DIY thing at home, I do this for a living, and we are a company with 20+ employees for the last 50 years, that it'd be considered professional enough. If everyone here feels otherwise, I'll get lost.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

EMCorp said:


> Customer is in Saudi Arabia.


Does your customer realize you won't be putting in RCDs or RCBOs?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> Does your customer realize you won't be putting in RCDs or RCBOs?


I too was wondering if the customer spec'd the panel and associated equipment. I'm envisioning this boomeranging right back if it's headed for the middle east.

To the OP, what input has your staff electrician given you on this? Why wouldn't you just put this on him or her to sort out?


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Read up on the subject of induced voltage


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## EMCorp (Jul 27, 2018)

I'm unsure what the customer expects....we've done a few buildings for them in the past with no issue. They've never requested a 400/240V Power Board either. I believe the spec came from their end customer. we are setting this up the same way we always have.

I reached out to a local electrician, and he said if the Panel Board needs to be bonded, the electrician will bond it when they hook power up when it gets to Saudi. We are going to leave the Board as it came to us.

thanks for trying to help even though I'm clearly in over my head.


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## EMCorp (Jul 27, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> I too was wondering if the customer spec'd the panel and associated equipment. I'm envisioning this boomeranging right back if it's headed for the middle east.
> 
> To the OP, what input has your staff electrician given you on this? Why wouldn't you just put this on him or her to sort out?


We've never had a licensed electrician, just a couple guys that were trained by the guy before them. 

Being the (new) Production Manager, I'm expected to start figuring this stuff out.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

EMCorp said:


> We've never had a licensed electrician, just a couple guys that were trained by the guy before them.
> 
> Being the (new) Production Manager, I'm expected to start figuring this stuff out.


here is where you can run into liability issues, regardless if your people can do the work or not getting a licensed electrician (preferably a master) is the best way to cover your @$$.
If you have a master or licensed journeyman then you will be able to properly apprentice the other guys so the can get their license as well.

the hardest part is convincing yourself and other managers that it is in their best interest to have the proper people employed.
the savings show up as lower labor cost for repairs because they are done correctly in the first place, and elimination of unneeded replacement due to mis-diagnosed problems and usually a dramatic drop in down time.

being a production manager its great if you want to learn this stuff, but its better if you learn the limitations of the machines. because faster is not always better!

In my old job we were responsible for troubleshooting inspection equipment in a bottle factory and some of the machines had to physically handle the bottles (rotate, transport via clamp wheels, etc.)
if the bottle was too far out of round it would mishandle and affect inspection, and crash the machine(primarily when the machine was running too fast).
it took a long time to explain it to our production crews that if they wanted the machine to run faster they had to make better bottles.

if they didn't want to make better ware then they had be limited to how the speed the machine could handle safely without excessive ware loss!


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

The bad thing about the old guy leaving is that the trainie becomes the trainer and they always forget the reasons behind the training. 

Higher an electrician and since your manufacturing something, have it designed and engineered. Then the electrician can build what your manufacturing and watch over the minions banging things together.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

This sound like a prefab.

Everything is built in a factory flat packed then sent abroad to be assembled. In most cases a prototype is assembled and tested both on and off site to what ever code is used in the country where the unit is to be installed. 

By the time it hits production you no longer need a electrician you just have skilled people who follow the specs. Most company's do not hire a electrician full time as they lack the skills to do assembly. (the whole point of having it tested is everything has to be the same. No adjustments allowed, Not many electricians are capable of doing that or want to do that) 

The trouble starts when someone in sales sells a one off as there no approved and tested prototype so you end up with production trying to wing a job. Most electricians wouldn't have a clue how to wire something with out assembling it first and no one wants to assemble it completely let alone have it re-tested. 

If this is correct the best course would have been to tell sales that you require a local electrician on delivery to do the custom wiring.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Well, if it's anything like the place Im at now, I'd say "ship it". 

We get brand new machines in all the time from OEM's thar are about about 90% right (even after factory commissioning). We pretty much expect we'll take it the last 10%. I wonder if other companies are the same way?


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## xnuke (May 10, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> Well, if it's anything like the place Im at now, I'd say "ship it".
> 
> We get brand new machines in all the time from OEM's thar are about about 90% right (even after factory commissioning). We pretty much expect we'll take it the last 10%.* I wonder if other companies are the same way?*



You just described every paper mill I've worked at.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

put a sufficiently sized lug on the neutral bar and on the can, and include a suitably sized bonding jumper (unattached) in the can with a label on it that says, in english and arabic:
"neutral - ground bonding jumper, use if required":وصلة ربط محايد - أرضي ، تستخدم إذا لزم الأمر

ship it. get paid.

that should cover your butt.


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