# Federal Pacific



## Haley (Oct 3, 2017)

I have customer asking me to install a surge protector in his old Federal Pacific panel. Are they one on the market that is listed for use in a FP panel?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

You should sell him smoke alarms instead.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> You should sell him smoke alarms instead.


:laughing:you a funny guy...

OP ...sell him a new breaker panel or walk...just my 2 cents.:thumbsup:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Haley said:


> I have customer asking me to install a surge protector in his old Federal Pacific panel. Are they one on the market that is listed for use in a FP panel?


I would tell the customer to ditch that old Federal Pacific panel and get a modern one.,,

I been replacing few bad one over here in Philippines we did have few Japanise verison and some of them were not any better than old Federal Pacific breaker what I ran into before. 
( very low AIC that is the moot point and they blow up with hard short circuits ) 

I have one customer asked me that many years ago about the Federal Pacific breaker panel and I told them ditch it or I walk out and the customer changed their mind and put in new panel plus new surge suppressor in there same time.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Depending on what code cycle they are on, you are doing them a favor. Change a receptacle here on the 14, you need an AFCI. You can go the receptacle AFCI route, but they end up behind furniture and its a pain. It's a practical upsell.


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## Haley (Oct 3, 2017)

RePhase277 said:


> You should sell him smoke alarms instead.


That's what I thought. Seems like he is spending his money in the wrong places.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The other thing is, If they are going to stay for a while and do some remodeling, kitchen for instance, another good reason to kick that to the curb and upgrade.


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## Haley (Oct 3, 2017)

nrp3 said:


> Depending on what code cycle they are on, you are doing them a favor. Change a receptacle here on the 14, you need an AFCI. You can go the receptacle AFCI route, but they end up behind furniture and its a pain. It's a practical upsell.


We don't go by the code here. Our inspector makes up his own rules, and they always seem to change on my projects. But that's a another tread.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

That gets old.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Federal Pacific equipment is no longer UL listed. They falsified the testing way back when. So nothing is listed to be used on a FPE panel. 

Sell the customer a service change. If they ever wish to sell the home, no insurance company will write home owners insurance on it.


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## RICK BOYD (Mar 10, 2008)

federal pacific units
are switches not breakers 

but you don't get those annoying trip outs !


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Haley said:


> I have customer asking me to install a surge protector in his old Federal Pacific panel. Are they one on the market that is listed for use in a FP panel?


What type of panel?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

OOoooooo....you said the "F" word. FPE panels require one thing............a dumpster.


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## overfused123 (Jan 31, 2018)

changing out 210 FPE panel into a condo blg. 23 floors and 20 electric rises(400amps) each. retro fit panels by Eaton work great. Insurance company will rise premiums if not replaced with in the year. I like to call them "FPE no blows"


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

overfused123 said:


> changing out 210 FPE panel into a condo blg. 23 floors and 20 electric rises(400amps) each. retro fit panels by Eaton work great. Insurance company will rise premiums if not replaced with in the year. I like to call them "FPE no blows"


You better have pictures of this.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Lets not judge Ford Motor Company based on a few Pinto explosions.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

overfused123 said:


> changing out 210 FPE panel into a condo blg. 23 floors and 20 electric rises(400amps) each. retro fit panels by Eaton work great. Insurance company will rise premiums if not replaced with in the year. I like to call them "FPE no blows"



They do. Took some figuring to get the first one to line up, but after that, it went quicker. I don't really see a better product for the job. I work in a lot of elderly housing units with these and Zinsco and waiting for either the subsidizing agencies or insurance to push this.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> They do. Took some figuring to get the first one to line up, but after that, it went quicker. I don't really see a better product for the job. I work in a lot of elderly housing units with these and Zinsco and waiting for either the subsidizing agencies or insurance to push this.


So where are your pictures??


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Probably somewhere lost on Photobucket that I can't post. Not much to see except three CH panels side by each.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I want to see how this works, darn it.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The tricky part was getting the guts laid out so the cover would fit right. At the time there wasn't much in the instructions to help on how to do it. I think if you had a lot to do of the same size, the thing to do would be to make a template for the remaining ones that would speed the layout.


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## RICK BOYD (Mar 10, 2008)

FPE means 
Fire Produced Electrically


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## volleyball (Sep 14, 2011)

varmit said:


> Federal Pacific equipment is no longer UL listed. They falsified the testing way back when. So nothing is listed to be used on a FPE panel.
> 
> Sell the customer a service change. If they ever wish to sell the home, no insurance company will write home owners insurance on it.



It should be some insurance companies won't write policies. 





As far as the original question, I don't get why not add a surge protector? It isn't going to hurt and could be very helpful. If you want to CYA then add verbage to suggest a new panel.


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

*Be careful how you word your warning!*



nrp3 said:


> The tricky part was getting the guts laid out so the cover would fit right. At the time there wasn't much in the instructions to help on how to do it. I think if you had a lot to do of the same size, the thing to do would be to make a template for the remaining ones that would speed the layout.


 I would think it wise to check the panels date of manufacture against a reliable source for the period when Federal Pacific Electric was cheating on their listing tests. There are a fair number of FPE panels installed which met all requirements for UL listing and are not an issue. I would be concerned that an overzealous consumer protection agency or state Attorney General's office would accuse me of consumer fraud for alleging that acceptable equipment was dangerous. 

If I didn't want to do the research I would explain what happened and tell the customer that I was unwilling to work on an FPE panel because we only know which ones they were caught falsifying the listing marks on. That does not mean that they weren't cheating on others. I know that sounds like legalistic ass covering but that is only because I've seen good people burned by failing to be careful how they said something. 

-- 
Tom Horne


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

For the retrofit kits, there isn’t anything left FPE but the box, no cover, no buss, just an empty can.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> For the retrofit kits, there isn’t anything left FPE but the box, no cover, no buss, just an empty can.


I wish they were't prohibitively expensive for basic residential. I'd much rather change the guts than pry the old out, being careful with that old cloth romex, and trying to carefully cut a little more room and measure for the hole in the back that is almost too close to the breaker hooks to be usable....


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

They really are better suited to flush mounted panels and ones that you have time to size the parts ahead of time, ie apartments and condos. I'm waiting for the day to arrive when the subsidized housing management group I work with has to do this for the Zinsco and FPE panels. I've offered it already. It'll happen eventually. Need it for distribution panels too.


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