# Going out of business rate for 200 Amp service



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

$1,000 bucks per amp



:ban::ban::ban::ban::ban:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

$1.49. :whistling2:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

$1500 for most, $6500 if it is an old lady that I can rip off.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> $1500 for most, $6500 if it is an old lady that I can rip off.


Ripping off old ladies is the best. 

-Matt


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Ripping off old ladies is the best.
> 
> -Matt


Well, in that case I'll raise my price to $2.19.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Materials + markup + labor. 

Also depends on the quality of the install... Al or Cu, SEU riser or PVC/ Rigid, junk panel vs the goodie


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

It's New Jersey, I thought you just informed the customer how much they were going to paying you ......or go down there and whack in the head with you dike's.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

I charged $4500 for one I did last month and $1900 I did for one last week, too many variables.

Figure out your cost of doing business, how long you thing the service will take you, how much your material will be, how much you would like to profit, and go from there.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> Materials + markup + labor. .........



Crap. Make it $3.29 now.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> $1500 for most, $6500 if it is an old lady that I can rip off.


The *going rate* around here is $1800.00 - $2500.00 for a standard 200 amp. service change.

Only a very few guys go to $1500.00, but they are out there for sure.

The $6500.00 you quoted will never happen in the real world if the job goes out to bid and it was for a *150 amp. service change.*

It only works for slime ball electricians who find the elderly an easy mark to rip off..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Aw man, not another going rate thread.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah I know. GTF out of here!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Aw man, not another going rate thread.


Nothing wrong with the thread if you can handle the answer.. :thumbsup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Nothing wrong with the thread if you can handle the answer.. :thumbsup:


Ripping off old ladies?


~Matt


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Yeah I know. GTF out of here!


Buzz.. since when are you candy ass who runs from a good debate.. :blink: :no:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Buzz.. since when are you candy ass who runs from a good debate.. :blink: :no:


He is a master debater!


~Matt


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Nothing wrong with the thread if you can handle the answer.. :thumbsup:


I get the going rate but I see no problems charging more than it, sometimes way more. :laughing:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Buzz.. since when are you candy ass who runs from a good debate.. :blink: :no:


WTH kind of debate can you have with this question? It's been attempted a 100 times on here. It's ridiculous. To many variables.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Ripping off old ladies?
> 
> 
> ~Matt


NO.. 

The question was what is the *going rate* for a 200 amp service change.. 

Matt.. this is out of your league.. remember a good man knows his limitations.. :thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> WTH kind of debate can you have with this question? It's been attempted a 100 times on here. It's ridiculous. To many variables.


What variables?? :blink:

A standard 200 amp service change takes most of the guesswork out of it..

95% of the 200 amp. service changes out there are covered in the prices I quoted.

We get questions here all the time about prices on jobs.

The easiest one to answer is about service changes.. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> I get the going rate but I see no problems charging more than it, sometimes way more. :laughing:


Good for you.. nothing wrong with that at all.. :thumbsup:

Everyone sees a job differently.. it is when the job is out to bid that you need a really sharp pencil.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Good for you.. nothing wrong with that at all.. :thumbsup:
> 
> Everyone sees a job differently.. it is when the job is out to bid that you need a really sharp pencil.


If I was to throw out a price in this case I would say $2,000, considering we don't have all the facts.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> NO..
> 
> The question was what is the *going rate* for a 200 amp service change..
> 
> Matt.. this is out of your league.. remember a good man knows his limitations.. :thumbup:


It is out of my league. I dont really know anything about the going rate. I charge as much as I can, because eating steak is better than hot dogs.

~Matt


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

1) define service change...panel only or whole new disco, mast, panel, feeder?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> 1) define service change.


to change a service.:thumbup:


~Matt


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> What variables?? :blink:
> ........



Silly little details, really. Like is the house wood or brick? overhead or underground? If overhead, will trees need to be trimmed? Underground means locating. Does the AHJ require the rest of the house brought up to Code? What about AFCIs?

Nope... no variables at all. Carry on!


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Time to pull this pic out again


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

no fax. Just chatter

~Matt


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> The $6500.00 you quoted will never happen in the real world if the job goes out to bid and it was for a *150 amp. service change.*


You have a certain idea in your head of what a service change is.

What if it's underground 200' from the pole?

What if a 1000 other things that we do not know from the OP?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> You have a certain idea in your head of what a service change is.
> 
> What if it's underground 200' from the pole?
> 
> What if a 1000 other things that we do not know from the OP?


Those things dont matter to ole B4T

~Matt


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I will say that 6k or more does seem a tad bit high for a 150 amp service, there would have to be something pretty extreme involved for me to bid it that high. 

Yes I know I just kinda agreed with B4T. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You have a certain idea in your head of what a service change is.
> 
> What if it's underground 200' from the pole?
> 
> What if a 1000 other things that we do not know from the OP?


If you read back, I have always said it was a *standard *service change

Around here a underground service change is the same price as overhead.

The POCO rates their feeders from a different planet.. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> It is out of my league. I dont really know anything about the going rate. I charge as much as I can, because eating steak is better than hot dogs.
> 
> ~Matt


Don't steal Bob's line about what I like to eat.. he worked really hard to come up with that.. :laughing:

In the real world, you won't have to worry about what food your going to eat.

If the job is going out to bid, you will be using food stamps.. :thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> If you read back, I have always said it was a *standard *service change


WTF is a 'standard service change'. :laughing:

It is a big country and believe it or not the country does not base how it does thing on what LI does. :laughing:



> Around here a underground service change is the same price as overhead.


That makes little sense.:no:




> The POCO rates their feeders from a different planet.. :laughing:


Yes, the reality planet not the falsely inflated calculations of the NEC.

No one knows what the true load of a home is more accurately than the power company. :no::no:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Yes I know I just kinda agreed with B4T. :laughing:



You just made the list pal ........ 



























:laughing:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

~Matt


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> WTF is a 'standard service change'. :laughing:
> 
> It is a big country and believe it or not the country does not base how it does thing on what LI does. :laughing:
> The OP is from NJ.. Long Island has over 3 million homes with services that are basically the same.
> ...


OK... this is going to look ugly.. still working on the multiple quotes..


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

I am in NJ and I won't touch a 100 amp service for less then $1500 or a 200 amp for $2250.

I could care less what the "Going rate" is.

Service changes can go easy or be a real Pita and if I am going to tie up a whole day and maybe even half of another I want to make it worth my while.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Silly little details, really. Like is the house wood or brick? overhead or underground? If overhead, will trees need to be trimmed? Underground means locating. Does the AHJ require the rest of the house brought up to Code? What about AFCIs?
> 
> Nope... no variables at all. Carry on!


What if it is a one story house,two story,3 story? Does the service need a mast? A disconnect? What if it is a duplex house? What if the panel is in the closet?The garage?A finished room? A finished basement?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

TOOL was taking a shot at me.. read it again.. :thumbsup:

I have used the words _*standard and basic*_.. really easy to understand words.. :no:

It means no mast or extra long runs of SEU


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> TOOL was taking a shot at me.. read it again.. :thumbsup:
> 
> I have used the words _*standard and basic*_.. really easy to understand words.. :no:
> 
> It means no mast or extra long runs of SEU



So your price includes just mounting the panel?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So your price includes just mounting the panel?



A service change is changing ALL the parts related and connected to the electrical service of the house.

A "service" for the HO starts where POCO is connected to house... everything from that point on, not including the meter, belongs to the HO.

I hope this clears up any confusion you may of had..


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> A "service" for the HO starts where POCO is connected to house... everything from that point on, not including the meter, belongs to the HO.
> 
> I hope this clears up any confusion you may of had..


Sure if I lived in LI.

Do you think that is the same everywhere?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Sure if I lived in LI.
> 
> Do you think that is the same everywhere?


Nope.. it varies.. we both know that.. :thumbsup:

The houses I have seen in NJ look like the same ones on Long Island.. all I am saying..


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

Oh and another thing.....I recently lost a job to upgrade a 50A FP panel with 16 circuits in it to a 150A Service.....

Details....

Panel in finished wall
Back to back
Bonding 40ft away in crawl
3 circuits from top, the rest from the bottom

My price $1950

Competitor $1100

He can have it.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Nope.. it varies.. we both know that.. :thumbsup:
> 
> The houses I have seen in NJ look like the same ones on Long Island.. all I am saying..


 
All the people I have seen from Long Island look like the people from MTV's Jersey Shore......


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> All the people I have seen from Long Island look like the people from MTV's Jersey Shore......


Where have you been looking..  :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Oh and another thing.....I recently lost a job to upgrade a 50A FP panel with 16 circuits in it to a 150A Service.....
> 
> Details....
> 
> ...


You have to "hungry" to compete with a price like that.. I would walk away also.

I lost a 200 amp service change with inspection to a guy who bid $1500.00.. I was at $2200.00.. good for him. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> A service change is changing ALL the parts related and connected to the electrical service of the house.
> 
> A "service" for the HO starts where POCO is connected to house... everything from that point on, not including the meter, belongs to the HO.
> 
> I hope this clears up any confusion you may of had..



So the price is the same for a 8' EMT riser strapped to the wall and a 20' GRC riser going through the soffit & roof, guyed back in 4 places?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> TOOL was taking a shot at me.. read it again.. :thumbsup:
> 
> I have used the words _*standard and basic*_.. really easy to understand words.. :no:
> 
> *It means no mast or extra long runs of SEU*


Don't you read things before picking them apart.. :no:


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Oh and another thing.....I recently lost a job to upgrade a 50A FP panel with 16 circuits in it to a 150A Service.....
> 
> Details....
> 
> ...


Also, not that I am claiming to be anything more then a hobbyist when it comes to legitimate business acumen at this stage of my foray into the EC'ing realm....... but getting beat like this on a quote can give people the impression that they are being ripped off. Which is exactly why lowballers who do absolutely zero research on how to properly figure out their cost of doing business need to be eradicated. 

Seriously, look at the details, look at the $1100 winning bid. 

Do the math, that EC is making less money on that job then he would if he worked for a reputable company. 

I should note that the EC that beat me is a one man show with a 1980's Ford rust bucket and two left shoes......there is no way anybody could do the above mentioned service alone in less than 8 hours, no way, no how.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Also, not that I am claiming to be anything more then a hobbyist when it comes to legitimate business acumen at this stage of my foray into the EC'ing realm....... but getting beat like this on a quote can give people the impression that they are being ripped off. Which is exactly why lowballers who do absolutely zero research on how to properly figure out their cost of doing business need to be eradicated.
> 
> Seriously, look at the details, look at the $1100 winning bid.
> 
> ...


 

You're full of it. I do 99.9% of my SFD service changes ALONE in ONE day. I can't even remember the last time a SFD service took multiple days. I don't need a helper standing over my shoulder all day. There's only room for one on a service change. I can easily do that job for $900 labor, $150 permit, $50 gas and $500 materials.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're full of it. I do 99.9% of my SFD service changes ALONE in ONE day. I can't even remember the last time a SFD service took multiple days. I don't need a helper standing over my shoulder all day. There's only room for one on a service change. I can easily do that job for $900 labor, $150 permit, $50 gas and $500 materials.


Are you joking or are you from the land of outdoor service panels? :blink:

Where I am at one inside guy and one outside guy are usually the norm and with a recessed panel with cables in both ends it is not going to be quick unless you leave a mess.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're full of it. I do 99.9% of my SFD service changes ALONE in ONE day. I can't even remember the last time a SFD service took multiple days. I don't need a helper standing over my shoulder all day. There's only room for one on a service change. I can easily do that job for $900 labor, $150 permit, $50 gas and $500 materials.


I'm talking about the variables of this specific job, not the average "going rate"  service change. I did not want to write a book describing the jobsite conditions, but I'll start by saying a few of the circuits had to be junctioned in the crawl to lengthen them, and the finished wall was knotty pine. (no big deal for me because I own a Rockwell Sonicrafter, but I would have loooooved to see how Mr. 2 left shoes neatly cut open that wall.........)

And your price is still $1600, not $1100, btw.


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## elecpatsfan (Oct 1, 2010)

For me it's 1800 bucks for _standard_ 200amp service change. Simple overhead, panel close to meter, 'bout 20 circuits. 

For 50-75' underground service I get 2500 plus 300 allowance for trenching.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're full of it. I do 99.9% of my SFD service changes ALONE in ONE day. I can't even remember the last time a SFD service took multiple days. I don't need a helper standing over my shoulder all day. There's only room for one on a service change. I can easily do that job for $900 labor, $150 permit, $50 gas and $500 materials.


 
:laughing::laughing:

Thats some funny stuff there. I think the OP is talking about changing the entire service,not just the panel.

What does SFD stand for? Sloppy F-in Dogsh!t? :laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> ..........What does SFD stand for? Sloppy F-in Dogsh!t? :laughing::laughing:


Single Family Dwelling. Code-ese for a house.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're full of it. I do 99.9% of my SFD service changes ALONE in ONE day. I can't even remember the last time a SFD service took multiple days. I don't need a helper standing over my shoulder all day. There's only room for one on a service change. I can easily do that job for $900 labor, $150 permit, $50 gas and $500 materials.



I beg to differ, one guy does the riser and ground rods, while the other guy does the panel and water meter. There is NO standing over any shoulders at all :whistling2:

Then after we are done we go to the next call and make more $$$$.... more than the helper charges per day = more profit than you by yourself


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Single Family Dwelling. Code-ese for a house.


 
I know,I was just trying to be funny.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

I do them all the time for a six pack! (imported beer only...I'm not an idiot!)


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I have one coming up at $3200.00. All PVC, copper, and Cutler-Hammer BR 40-circuit MB panel. There's about 15 circuits that need to be reattached. I'm installing a pretty little pull chain and throwing in a GFCI in a 4" square box. This job comes from word of mouth. Those are the best ones. You certainly are not going to get some cheap ass from Craig's List to pay for the quality work that we deliver. Word.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I have one coming up at $3200.00. All PVC, copper, and Cutler-Hammer BR 40-circuit MB panel. There's about 15 circuits that need to be reattached. I'm installing a pretty little pull chain and throwing in a GFCI in a 4" square box. This job comes from word of mouth. Those are the best ones. You certainly are not going to get some cheap ass from Craig's List to pay the quality work that we do. Word.




This job comes from word of mouth are the best jobs and those customer allways pay top dollar:thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Split Bolt said:


> I do them all the time for a six pack! (imported beer only...I'm not an idiot!)


And Whats wrong with Beer made in the USA:001_huh:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I have one coming up at $3200.00. All PVC, copper, and Cutler-Hammer BR 40-circuit MB panel. There's about 15 circuits that need to be reattached. I'm installing a pretty little pull chain and throwing in a GFCI in a 4" square box. This job comes from word of mouth. Those are the best ones. You certainly are not going to get some cheap ass from Craig's List to pay for the quality work that we deliver. Word.


Nice score.. :thumbsup:


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> And Whats wrong with Beer made in the USA:001_huh:


Good question! Especially since my favorite is Sierra Nevada Pale Ale! I guess I misspoked!:laughing:
Seriously, 200A upgrades for me are usually about $1600 for a basic easy one and more as complications get thrown into the mix.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Split Bolt said:


> Good question! Especially since my favorite is Sierra Nevada Pale Ale! I guess I misspoked!:laughing:
> Seriously, 200A upgrades for me are usually about $1600 for a basic easy one and more as complications get thrown into the mix.



Me $2200 no less pipe and copper only:thumbup:


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## XCasper (Jan 30, 2009)

I've done one Resi 200A as cheep as $1200 and I think as high as $2400. If I had to guess a going rate `round here I'd guess $1800ish. And for those who care I made even more on that $1200 one than I expected. Love when things fall in that "best case" column.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Split Bolt said:


> Good question! Especially since my favorite is Sierra Nevada Pale Ale! I guess I misspoked!:laughing:
> Seriously, 200A upgrades for me are usually about $1600 for a basic easy one and more as complications get thrown into the mix.


Jack up your price:thumbup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You just made the list pal ........


Oh noes! What ever will I do? :laughing:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

The cheapest one I ever did was $1800. Ther is NO way I could do one for 1200. A few weeks ago, I did a 200 amp main panel replacement with a new grounding system. It was an "easy" It cost them $1067. I underpriced it by two hours, so it should have been almost $1200. Again, that was just the panel itself and a new grounding system


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Oh noes! What ever will I do? :laughing:


Bob will NEVER admit he is wrong, so being on the list means you are not blind

All these prices guys are posting and nothing near that $6450.00.. gee.. I wonder why that is.... :blink:

If I only knew all the facts.. :whistling2:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> All these prices guys are posting and nothing near that $6450.00.. gee.. I wonder why that is....


I would charge _anyone_(and I mean anyone) that much in a heartbeat but would lose bids left and right.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> I would charge _anyone_(and I mean anyone) that much in a heartbeat but would lose bids left and right.


Everyone would lose the job if it went out to bid.. exactly my point.

The numbers are just too far out of wack to be competitive and the numbers over at MH were in the same ballpark..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Everyone would lose the job if it went out to bid.. exactly my point.
> 
> The numbers are just too far out of wack to be competitive and the numbers over at MH were in the same ballpark..


Just for some prespective on the $6,450 for a service change, remeber that telemetry job I posted pictures of a while back? Anyone want to take a guess at what the material cost was?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Just for some prespective on the $6,450 for a service change, remeber that telemetry job I posted pictures of a while back? Anyone want to take a guess at what the material cost was?


Got that pic handy.. my brain has a (21) day look back period..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

And the answer for the material cost for that work was just under $6450. I must say it would have to be one heck of a service change to rise to total cost of $6,450. 

Really even though we don't know exactly what was involved for sure, how much could there be, _worst case_, to a 150 amp overhead change out? A meter socket, panel, service conductors, maybe a mast and a weather head and guy hardware, a ground rod or two and some copper for that possibly, maybe some cable if the panel isn't right next to the meter and your usual fittings and hardware. 

Aw I agree with B4T again. Sh1t, I really got to lay off the alcohol or something...


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Bob will NEVER admit he is wrong, so being on the list means you are not blind


Well that is just a lie, I can admit I am wrong when I am.

Can you admit you do not know any facts about the OPs installation?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> If I only knew all the facts.. :whistling2:


We are never going to have every fact. Heck I don't have all the facts on some of the jobs I have personally walked and priced. So really a_nything, anyone _of us says in threads like this is just speculation to one degree or another.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> We are never going to have every fact. Heck I don't have all the facts on some of the jobs I have personally walked and priced. So really a_nything, anyone _of us says in threads like this is just speculation to one degree or another.



That is true.

If B4T would just pull his head out of Bills ass:laughing: for a minute he would see that I never said $6500 was the 'going rate' for his idea of a 150 amp service.


All I have said is we do not have enough facts to say, if he bases his business on assumptions he is a fool.:jester:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> That is true.
> 
> If B4T would just pull his head out of Bills ass for a minute he would see that I never said $6500 was the 'going rate' for his idea of a 150 amp service.
> 
> All I have said is we do not have enough facts to say, if he bases his business on assumptions he is a fool.


:laughing: Yeah, plus really what one of us would say is an easy, basic service change the rest of us might say it's a hard, complicated one.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> And the answer for the material cost for that work was just under $6450. I must say it would have to be one heck of a service change to rise to total cost of $6,450.
> 
> Really even though we don't know exactly what was involved for sure, how much could there be, _worst case_, to a 150 amp overhead change out? A meter socket, panel, service conductors, maybe a mast and a weather head and guy hardware, a ground rod or two and some copper for that possibly, maybe some cable if the panel isn't right next to the meter and your usual fittings and hardware.
> 
> Aw I agree with B4T again. Sh1t, I really got to lay off the alcohol or something...


Originally it was the electrical inspector who told us the story.

The job was a simple straight up with SEU and basement panel, if I remember correctly..no gray areas for "facts" to be hiding out..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> That is true.
> 
> If B4T would just pull his head out of Bills ass:laughing: for a minute he would see that I never said $6500 was the 'going rate' for his idea of a 150 amp service.
> 
> ...



What more facts does a sane man need?? :blink:

Price.. $6450.00... materials.. say $500.00.. customer 82 yrs. old...EI said it was a simple job.. ALL the info points to a ripoff.. pure and simple.. why you don't see it, I don't get :blink:

GEEZ Bob.. what other facts do you need to see the "light".. :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Ok, thinking out loud here. It's an elderly customer right? Maybe the EC provided a generator and temp power for medical equipment or something like that.

Obviously the "what if" part of my brain is responsible for this thought. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Ok, thinking out loud here. It's an elderly customer right? Maybe the EC provided a generator and temp power for medical equipment or something like that.
> 
> Obviously the "what if" part of my brain is responsible for this thought. :laughing:


I see you do your best think after 12:00AM.. EST... :laughing:

Most of us have boxes we attach to the POCO wires for temp light and power.. 

Just to be safe here, I will add $15.00 for "equipment rental" of extension cord.

WOW.. one less unknown fact that could of driven up the cost.. :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I see you do your best think after 12:00AM.. EST...


Naw, crazy sh1t like that comes to me at all times, and I mean at all times. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Someone changed the title of this thread.. LMAO..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Naw, crazy sh1t like that comes to me at all times, and I mean at all times. :laughing:


It is good your thinking outside the box for things that could be an added expense for this job.. keep up the good work.. :thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> It is good your thinking outside the box for things that could be an added expense for this job..


There never was a box with me.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I suppose that if I totaled up all the 200 amp services I've ever done, and divide by however many of them there were, I could come up with an average price that I do 200 amp services for. When people say "going rate", I think they really mean "average price". For instance, if the "going rate" for a 200 amp service was 1800 bucks, a man certainly wouldn't do a $4000 worth of work on a 200 amp service upgrade and only charge 1800 bucks because that was the "going rate". 

Because there are many varied circumstances that can cause 200 amp services to have prices all over the chart, I really find talk about "going rate" and "average price" quite un-useful. For instance, if you were to let leak out to a customer that the average price for your 200 amp services is 1800 bucks, and theirs ended up costing 4000, they'd feel deceived and ripped off. For reasons like that, I find discussions about "the going rate" more of a curiosity than anything I'd ever use as a guideline for setting my prices or making business decisions.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> There never was a box with me.


There never is really a "box" with anyone, no matter what TOOL says..

For those of you from around the world who read this, it means thinking of things that are not normally on the list of causes or fixes..


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

I recently went on a blown fuse service call in a 150+ year old row house. The owner, who rents it out, is a 89 YO widow. Her husband had just died two weeks before the problem. She had her tenant call a "franchise" business out of the phone book (won't mention names) and she met the "tech" there to let him in. She said the guy spent a couple of hours running around the house, being told what to do on his cell phone. He couldn't get the fuse to stop blowing, charged her a few hundred dollars for "diagnostics" and said the fuse box would need to be changed to a breaker box. (don't ask me how that would fix a short circuit!) He said his boss would call later with a price. The boss called her later and told her $9,000.00 dollars for a 200 amp service! She freaked and called her neighbor, who happens to be my accountant, and was referred to me. I met her at the house. (old K&T and cloth covered cables w/ no grounds, like all the old houses in that area) I found and repaired the problem, which was a pinched wire in a ceiling light outlet and was done in about 1.25 hours. She asked me how much I would charge for a 200 amp service and I told her under $2,000 for sure. (meter back-to-back w/ panel) I've met the owner of this company that recently became a franchise and I felt like giving him a call, but didn't!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I suppose that if I totaled up all the 200 amp services I've ever done, and divide by however many of them there were, I could come up with an average price that I do 200 amp services for. When people say "going rate", I think they really mean "average price". For instance, if the "going rate" for a 200 amp service was 1800 bucks, a man certainly wouldn't do a $4000 worth of work on a 200 amp service upgrade and only charge 1800 bucks because that was the "going rate".
> 
> Because there are many varied circumstances that can cause 200 amp services to have prices all over the chart, I really find talk about "going rate" and "average price" quite un-useful. For instance, if you were to let leak out to a customer that the average price for your 200 amp services is 1800 bucks, and theirs ended up costing 4000, they'd feel deceived and ripped off. For reasons like that, I find discussions about "the going rate" more of a curiosity than anything I'd ever use as a guideline for setting my prices or making business decisions.


This is why I have used the words "standard and basic".. the point of attachment height is mostly 16' above grade.

Number of circuits on a 100 amp service is mostly (20) or less.

I can only speak for the houses here on Long Island, but from what others have said the prices are pretty close.

SEU is say $10.00 a foot, so even if a few more feet is needed, we are not talking about a lot of money added onto the basic price.

Again.. the going rate I am talking about is the ballpark I am bidding in.

If I quote $3000.00 for a 200amp. SC, I won't get the job if it it going out to bid.

There are guys around here doing them for $1500.00, it comes down to working for less money or not working at all.

I won't go below $2000.00 on the low end and $3000.00 on the high end.. those are my going rates.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> This is why I have used the words "standard and basic".. the point of attachment height is mostly 16' above grade.
> 
> Number of circuits on a 100 amp service is mostly (20) or less.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but why calculate that number in the first place? If I calculate my average price, lowest price, and highest price, what do I do with those numbers? I'd find them to be in no way useful to me. 

Even if I knew the average price of every single EC in my local market, and could develop the local market's "going rate", of what use is that number to me? I submit that this number would be completely meaningless to me.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Split Bolt said:


> I recently went on a blown fuse service call in a 150+ year old row house. The owner, who rents it out, is a 89 YO widow. Her husband had just died two weeks before the problem. She had her tenant call a "franchise" business out of the phone book (won't mention names) and she met the "tech" there to let him in. She said the guy spent a couple of hours running around the house, being told what to do on his cell phone. He couldn't get the fuse to stop blowing, charged her a few hundred dollars for "diagnostics" and said the fuse box would need to be changed to a breaker box. (don't ask me how that would fix a short circuit!) He said his boss would call later with a price. The boss called her later and told her $9,000.00 dollars for a 200 amp service! She freaked and called her neighbor, who happens to be my accountant, and was referred to me. I met her at the house. (old K&T and cloth covered cables w/ no grounds, like all the old houses in that area) I found and repaired the problem, which was a pinched wire in a ceiling light outlet and was done in about 1.25 hours. She asked me how much I would charge for a 200 amp service and I told her under $2,000 for sure. (meter back-to-back w/ panel) I've met the owner of this company that recently became a franchise and I felt like giving him a call, but didn't!


If she has the estimate in writing, I would call the local newspaper.

I would make that guys life miserable.. 

Some day that good deed will come back to you.. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, but why calculate that number in the first place? If I calculate my average price, lowest price, and highest price, what do I do with those numbers? I'd find them to be in no way useful to me.
> 
> Even if I knew the average price of every single EC in my local market, and could develop the local market's "going rate", of what use is that number to me? I submit that this number would be completely meaningless to me.



I am bidding the job on the spot.. having those numbers raises the chance of me getting the job.

Not all customers, as you know, take the lowest price.

My presentation and price is the tools I am using to win the job.

Some of these people call (5) guys.. I have to look better than the before and after me.

If my price is close to the rest of the estimates, I have a better chance than if I was the _highest_ estimate.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I am bidding the job on the spot.. having those numbers raises the chance of me getting the job.
> 
> Not all customers, as you know, take the lowest price.
> 
> ...


Ah, I see. You're selling to a market segment where price is one of their main concerns, and you're afraid that you'll price yourself out of their market. Fear not. When you price yourself OUT of one market, you price yourself INTO another market.

For me, I pay more attention the my own closing ratio to determine how I stack up. I know some people pay too much attention to what other people are charging, and that's bass-ackwards, in my opinion. Pay more attention to your closing ratio and less attention to what anyone else is doing. I couldn't tell you what other people in my market are charging for anything if my life depended on it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Ah, I see. You're selling to a market segment where price is one of their main concerns, and you're afraid that you'll price yourself out of their market. Fear not. When you price yourself OUT of one market, you price yourself INTO another market.
> 
> For me, I pay more attention the my own closing ratio to determine how I stack up. I know some people pay too much attention to what other people are charging, and that's bass-ackwards, in my opinion. Pay more attention to your closing ratio and less attention to what anyone else is doing. I couldn't tell you what other people in my market are charging for anything if my life depended on it.


The service change market is one I do very well in and get most of the jobs I bid on.

It is not just price that win me the jobs.. most of the estimates are by recommendation or people have seen me on the road.

Even if a service change is not going out to bid, I keep the price the same as if it did.

There is not one customer out there who can say I overcharged them and I like it that way.

The best thing IMO is to have an idea what the competition is charging for certain cookie cutter type jobs.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Getting most of the jobs you bid on is the textbook sign that you're not charging enough.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> There never is really a "box" with anyone, no matter what TOOL says..


You bet your old ass... I charge as much as I can for my work. Sometimes I don't get the job, but that comes with the territory. It's all made up when I do get the high hitting jobs. 

-Matt


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Getting most of the jobs you bid on is the textbook sign that you're not charging enough.


You would think that would be blatantly obvious to all.:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You would think that would be blatantly obvious to all.


Apparently not everyone has read that textbook. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> The best thing IMO is to have an idea what the competition is charging for certain cookie cutter type jobs.


Yeah, we got that, we got that 1000 posts ago. 





Now will you please STF up about it. :laughing:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm still fuzzy on the value of knowing what the competition is charging. It's not like my overhead suddenly shrunk if I learn of someone doing it cheaper.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I'm still fuzzy on the value of knowing what the competition is charging. It's not like my overhead suddenly shrunk if I learn of someone doing it cheaper.


Marc you are so dumb. 


The value is you will get the job .......... who cares if you can't pay the bills .......... you are out there working hard so it must be right.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Are you joking or are you from the land of outdoor service panels? :blink:
> 
> Where I am at one inside guy and one outside guy are usually the norm and with a recessed panel with cables in both ends it is not going to be quick unless you leave a mess.


 

No Bob. I'm not joking. I do 99% of my service changes alone. 2 people can't wire a panel at once. One's doing a whole lot of watching. I know of at least (10) different one man shops around here that operate the same way on service changes. Dominion handles the service drop, overhead or underground. There's nothing to do outside but mount the meter. That takes ten minutes. Straight up panel install. Why would that take two guys? or two days? nonsense.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I'm still fuzzy on the value of knowing what the competition is charging. It's not like my overhead suddenly shrunk if I learn of someone doing it cheaper.


It helps keep more money in my pocket, rather than leaving it on the table.

Knowing what my comp charges is priceless.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

:sleep1: :sleep1:


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> No Bob. I'm not joking. I do 99% of my service changes alone. 2 people can't wire a panel at once. One's doing a whole lot of watching. I know of at least (10) different one man shops around here that operate the same way on service changes. Dominion handles the service drop, overhead or underground. There's nothing to do outside but mount the meter. That takes ten minutes. Straight up panel install. Why would that take two guys? or two days? nonsense.


I'm a one man shop and I do lots of service changes alone! It only goes into a second day if I forgot something. (I left a 2-pole 40 GE breaker in a panel overnight recently because I had purchased a Siemens 2-pole 50 to replace an existing 50 that ended-up being the wrong size) Or if I need to do other work that prompted the service upgrade to begin with. I'm just a little North of you, so the Dominion rules are the same here. We have a lot of NOVEC served areas here, but they are about the same as Dominion. When I was in Richmond, there were some areas served by the RPA. On those, we had to run SEC from new weather head to meter base. That took more time. Is it still like that down there? I think a lot of ECs around the country have to do things differently for their POCOS, so a lot of this is comparing apples to oranges.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> No Bob. I'm not joking. I do 99% of my service changes alone. 2 people can't wire a panel at once. One's doing a whole lot of watching. I know of at least (10) different one man shops around here that operate the same way on service changes. Dominion handles the service drop, overhead or underground. There's nothing to do outside but mount the meter. That takes ten minutes. Straight up panel install. Why would that take two guys? or two days? nonsense.


 
So that isn't a service change.

Your just replacing the meter and panel. Where I am,we have to cut the power,demo the drop,replace the drop and cut it back in.One guy will do this while the other guy is doing the panel.Once the outside guy is done he usually runs the grounds,cleans up then hand the inside guy breakers if the inside guy isn't done and help him mark the panel.

One guy can do the entire thing but why kill yourself for less profit.

That is the number one problem in our trade,guys undervaluing themselves


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

After reading the three pages that got posted since I visited the Sandman last night, I'll add my 2¢ worth.

I could care less what someone else charges. If they are smart, they'll charge enough to cover their expenses, and not give a damn what I charge. And if that's the way to play the game, well, dammit, I'll play it that way.

Whenever I give a customer a price and they immediately respond with "Well, so-and-so can do it for less," I respond with a remark that I can just as easily find someone who will charge you more than me. If the other guy's price is ridiculously low, I'll tell them to sign them up before they go out of business, and call me when they can't come back for their warranty work.

This lets me know right away if the person is interested in price alone, or whether it's worth pursuing any further.

Every EC is different. They perform their work different, their costs are different, and they have different work ethics. We're not car salesmen, and the new minivan sitting in our lot is _exactly_ like the new minivan sitting in the competitor's lot.

Yes, the end result of a service upgrade is the same... you have your old 100a FPE panel taken out and you get a nice new 200a C-H or SqD or Siemens panel in its place, meter socket, a new riser or mast, and maybe a ground rod or two.

But the difference between one EC's price and mine may be the cheap-o guy will take 3 days, and the power will be off during the day for all of those 3 days. Me.... I'll have the power down for a couple hours, and be done in a day.

But if I were to explain to a customer these types of differences, that becomes a selling point on which I can peddle my services. If the customer is only interested in price, I hand 'em a card, thank them for their consideration and leave.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Getting most of the jobs you bid on is the textbook sign that you're not charging enough.


As I stated a long time ago here, I always ask the customer if they got other bids for the job.

When people are happy with the finished product, they don't mind telling you the "stories" of the other guys they talked too and their estimates.

This is where all the info for that *going rate *comes from.. just losing a job means nothing unless you know why.

I am never the cheapest guy with my price.. just the lucky one.. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> ............I am never the cheapest guy with my price.. just the lucky one.. :thumbsup:


You'd be better off being the good salesman than lucky. :whistling2:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You would think that would be blatantly obvious to all.:laughing:



See post #112.. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Apparently not everyone has read that textbook. :laughing:



What I just told the other guy..  :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah, we got that, we got that 1000 posts ago.
> Now will you please STF up about it. :laughing:


Some guys don't read the beginning of the thread and miss important information..

Not a chance I will STFU.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> .........Not a chance I will STFU.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


You did for about a month, didn't you? :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You'd be better off being the good salesman than lucky. :whistling2:


I would get blasted about that if I did.. I'm having enough fun wondering why more guys don't want to know what the competition is charging for their work.

It is FREE and easily obtainable.. just have to ask.. :blink: 

I do service changes by myself all the time and usually done in (7) hours on average.

Not back breaking work and a really nice pay day when the customer hands you (22) one hundred dollar bills.. :thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You did for about a month, didn't you? :laughing:



No.. I just you the time to come back better and stronger.. :whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I would get blasted about that if I did.. I'm having enough fun wondering why more guys don't want to know what the competition is charging for their work...........



OK, so I charge $2500. Joe charges $2200, Steve charges $2600 and Dave charges $2150.

Now what?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> OK, so I charge $2500. Joe charges $2200, Steve charges $2600 and Dave charges $2150.
> 
> Now what?


You're in the ballpark with the rest of the bids.. now it is up to the HO who he trusts, likes, and thinks will give him the best job for the money.

If you were $3200.00.. chances are you would be one of the losers.

Some people throw out the highest and lowest bid and work from the middle.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> You're in the ballpark with the rest of the bids.. now it is up to the HO who he trusts, likes, and thinks will give him the best job for the money.
> 
> If you were $3200.00.. chances are you would be one of the losers.
> 
> Some people throw out the highest and lowest bid and work from the middle.



OK, so I charge $2500. Joe charges $1675, Steve charges $3200 and Dave charges $2150.

Now what?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> OK, so I charge $2500. Joe charges $1675, Steve charges $3200 and Dave charges $2150.
> 
> Now what?


I just told you.. it is up to the HO.. or who is ever signing the check


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I just told you.. it is up to the HO.. or who is ever signing the check



But.... but.... I'm trying to find the 'going rate' to base my price on instead. Do I need to raise my price? Lower it? What? It's vitally important I know this.

Suppose Joe charges $1200, Steve charges $2200 and Dave charges $6700? What should I do? It is imperative that I know.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Not back breaking work and a really nice pay day when the customer hands you (22) one hundred dollar bills.. :thumbup:


I am willing to bet $9.32 that stack of bills did not get invoiced properly and somehow found it's way into your personal accounts. Or maybe it's buried in the back yard.......


Give it a rest. You ain't gonna win with this going rate crap.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> What more facts does a sane man need?? :blink:
> 
> Price.. $6450.00... materials.. say $500.00.. customer 82 yrs. old...EI said it was a simple job.. ALL the info points to a ripoff.. pure and simple.. why you don't see it, I don't get :blink:
> 
> GEEZ Bob.. what other facts do you need to see the "light".. :laughing:


I was talking about the OP in this thread ya dip chit. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> I am willing to bet $9.32 that stack of bills did not get invoiced properly and somehow found it's way into your personal accounts. Or maybe it's buried in the back yard.......
> 
> 
> Give it a rest. You ain't gonna win with this going rate crap.


So you think it's crap.. others don't see it that way, especially me.

Don't read the thread if it upsets you so much..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I was talking about the OP in this thread ya dip chit. :laughing:


Thanks Bob.. I almost forgot you were here.. :thumbup:


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> Give it a rest. You ain't gonna win with this going rate crap.


And why not?

You use the "going rate" thinking everyday and now somehow it doesn't apply to consumers looking for eletrical work.

I got time. Tell me how the "going rate" doesn't apply to electrical work.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> And why not?
> 
> You use the "going rate" thinking everyday and now somehow it doesn't apply to consumers looking for eletrical work.
> 
> I got time. Tell me how the "going rate" doesn't apply to electrical work.


I don't use the "going rate" every day. I fill my tank at the same stations, regardless of price. I buy the same things inside that station. I don't care about the price. I'm not paying. My customers are. The "going rate" for a number 1 combo at lunch is $6.50. I don't pick the combo by price. I pick by convenience and taste. Sometimes lunch is $1.08 and some times it's $25.00. 

Sure, I like to save money here and there, but that is comparing apples to apples. My service change and B4T's and anyone else's are all going to be different.

There is definitely a market for customers who wish to pay the going rate. You can find them on Craigslist. Not my cup of tea. My customers are not paying me because of my price. They are paying me for what I give them.

Why not have a poll on what every contractor charges per hour? It's pointless. Everyone is different. You and I can have the exact same expenses down to the fricken penny and our hourly rate can vary by $50 an hour.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The only time I'd really give a crap about what others are charging is if I charged 2500 for a service update, and everyone else was 4,000+.

Of course, I'd figure it out because I would be doing nothing but service updates every day, so then I'd start creeping my price up closer to 3,500. :whistling2:


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're full of it. I do 99.9% of my SFD service changes ALONE in ONE day. I can't even remember the last time a SFD service took multiple days. I don't need a helper standing over my shoulder all day. There's only room for one on a service change. I can easily do that job for $900 labor, $150 permit, $50 gas and $500 materials.





mcclary's electrical said:


> No Bob. I'm not joking. I do 99% of my service changes alone. 2 people can't wire a panel at once. One's doing a whole lot of watching. I know of at least (10) different one man shops around here that operate the same way on service changes. Dominion handles the service drop, overhead or underground. There's nothing to do outside but mount the meter. That takes ten minutes. Straight up panel install. Why would that take two guys? or two days? nonsense.





robnj772 said:


> So that isn't a service change.
> 
> Your just replacing the meter and panel. Where I am,we have to cut the power,demo the drop,replace the drop and cut it back in.One guy will do this while the other guy is doing the panel.Once the outside guy is done he usually runs the grounds,cleans up then hand the inside guy breakers if the inside guy isn't done and help him mark the panel.
> 
> ...


Still think I am full of it mcclary? :whistling2:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

All this talk about service changes has brought me an estimate I am doing tomorrow morning.. :thumbsup:

HO called me tonight, I was recommended by a very good customer to him..

He is getting central air installed and has a 150A split bus panel.

Already I know he has talked to at least (3) different electricians..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> All this talk about service changes has brought me an estimate I am doing tomorrow morning.. .:thumbsup:......


So why are you going over there? Can't you just give him a going rate price?



Black4Truck said:


> .........Already I know he has talked to at least (3) different electricians..


So what is the going rate for those three other electricians?


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> All this talk about service changes has brought me an estimate I am doing tomorrow morning.. :thumbsup:
> 
> HO called me tonight, I was recommended by a very good customer to him..
> 
> ...


 
Sounds like an Indian.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So why are you going over there? Can't you just give him a going rate price?
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the going rate for those three other electricians?


I will find out tomorrow and post the results.. 

You will NEVER win the price game over the phone.. I don't play that game


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I will find out tomorrow and post the results..
> 
> You will NEVER win the price game over the phone.. I don't play that game



Isn't that why you know the 'going rate' to begin with?


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

These are the type of calls that are good ones to do a little prequalifying. I'd probably ask if the lowest price is the determining factor in who they will choose to do the work.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Isn't that why you know the 'going rate' to begin with?


NO!!... your not paying attention to all the things I have posted since I mentioned how I price certain jobs.

One has nothing to do with the other.. :no:

He already has a 150 amp service.. I am sure one of the other guys just told him to change the panel.

That is a waste of money, so I am going to sell a new 200A service instead..:thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> These are the type of calls that are good ones to do a little prequalifying. I'd probably ask if the lowest price is the determining factor in who they will choose to do the work.


That is a really bad idea.. :no:

Always better to meet the customer and see what he has and what he has been told by the other guys.

Only question I ask is when do you plan on doing the work.. more than (3) weeks call me back then..


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

I know this is an older post and will agree that a ball park figure is too complicated due to all the variables. I charge anywhere from $800-$4k for an upgrade depending on situation.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Yes, too many variables. Plus, it usually takees me a couple of days to get back to a customer with a hard price.

I do not negotiate on price and I always use QO panels. It is my way or f*ck ya. I have no more tolerance for bull****. I am the professional, I make the decisions. Therefore I do not give options on a new service, If I am going to do the worki "CADILLAC" the job because my name goes on it.


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

*THE RIGHT PRICE , THE WRONG PRICE , and MY PRICE*

I am with the "Cadillac Guy"






Don " Outstanding Citizen of the Conch Republic"


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

doubleoh7 said:


> Yes, too many variables. Plus, it usually takees me a couple of days to get back to a customer with a hard price.
> 
> I do not negotiate on price and I always use QO panels. If I am going to do the worki "CADILLAC" the job because my name goes on it.


No wonder it takes you a couple days to get a price... seen how much QO twins cost?

WTF 007?? Sq D Homeline isn't good enough? Your sh1t don't stink bro. :laughing:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> No wonder it takes you a couple days to get a price... seen how much QO twins cost?
> 
> WTF 007?? Sq D Homeline isn't good enough? Your sh1t don't stink bro. :laughing:


My **** stinks, really bad!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> My **** stinks, really bad!


Eat some high protein bars and RAW onions and you will smell like bakery fresh blue berry muffins:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You can stand on the mountain all day and pound your chest selling "Cadillac" equipment.. :thumbsup:

Someone beats your estimate by selling Murray "junk"... you will lose the job most of the time.

But stick to your values if it makes you feel like your KING.. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> You can stand on the mountain all day and pound your chest selling "Cadillac" equipment.. :thumbsup:
> 
> Someone beats your estimate by selling Murray "junk"... you will lose the job most of the time.
> 
> But stick to your values if it makes you feel like your KING.. :laughing:


I wonder how many electricians lost jobs in an eastern-seaboard state which shall remain unnamed to someone who buries PVC boxes 'at grade, but below the grass' instead of installing code-compliant Quazite-type boxes.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> You can stand on the mountain all day and pound your chest selling "Cadillac" equipment.. :thumbsup:
> 
> Someone beats your estimate by selling Murray "junk"... you will lose the job most of the time.
> 
> But stick to your values if it makes you feel like your KING.. :laughing:


He also drives a Cadillac pick up to all his job bids:laughing::laughing:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> You can stand on the mountain all day and pound your chest selling "Cadillac" equipment.. :thumbsup:
> 
> Someone beats your estimate by selling Murray "junk"... you will lose the job most of the time.
> 
> But stick to your values if it makes you feel like your KING.. :laughing:


That is where salemanship comes in. I explain to them that I use Square D QO equipment which is superior to other products on the market, that is one of the reasons that they can expect my price to be higher than some of my competitors. I tell them that I do this because I warranty my work, and that I have never seen a failed bussbar on a QO product. If they do not like that, well, then eff'em.

Here we go, I sure some guys here are going to argue with me that I should use the cheapest product on the market.......


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I wonder how many electricians lost jobs in an eastern-seaboard state which shall remain unnamed to someone who buries PVC boxes 'at grade, but below the grass' instead of installing code-compliant Quazite-type boxes.



How about the ones who use "Direct buried blue wire nuts" where the splice is 18" down and NO map.. :laughing:

There is nothing wrong with using PVC boxes.. they do a fine job.. :thumbsup:

That Quazite box does NOTHING except cost a chit load more money.. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> That is where salemanship comes in. I explain to them that I use Square D QO equipment which is superior to other products on the market, that is one of the reasons that they can expect my price to be higher than some of my competitors. I tell them that I do this because I warranty my work, and that I have never seen a failed bussbar on a QO product. If they do not like that, well, then eff'em.
> 
> Here we go, I sure some guys here are going to argue with me that I should use the cheapest product on the market.......


Hay... what ever floats your boat..:thumbsup:

I sell Murray.. they last and the price is right..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> There is nothing wrong with using PVC boxes.. they do a fine job.. :thumbsup:


Yeah there is nothing wrong with them if you like to do hack work. If you are into hack work they are the greatest. :laughing: DIYs use lots of them. 




> That Quazite box does NOTHING except cost a chit load more money.. :no:


Nothing except last much longer and not break when run over by landscape equipment.

But no they will not help if you put them in the path of a snowplow. :whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> How about the ones who use "Direct buried blue wire nuts" where the splice is 18" down and NO map.. :laughing:
> 
> There is nothing wrong with using PVC boxes.. they do a fine job.. :thumbsup:


'Ceptin' it ain't legal. 



Black4Truck said:


> That Quazite box does NOTHING except cost a chit load more money.. :no:


'Ceptin it IS legal.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> That Quazite box does NOTHING except cost a chit load more money.. :no:


Since when are you paying for them? Last I checked it is the customer's responsibility to reimburse me for the material I install on their property. This includes the retail price of the product, sales tax, and 40% markup, plus profit. 

I'm no math genius, but if something costs a chit load, then that puts MORE money in my pocket.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I can't say that Quazite boxes really cost a 'chit load. I think the last one I got was something like 45 bucks for around a 12x16.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

You want rip off? $4500 to replace 9 uc lights, install hood, put plug and receptacle on range, change light bulb, replace two outside landscape fixtures. Two days and $500 material.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

GE panel/ aluminum conductors standard $1850 inc underwriters, package can be upgraded to SQ D and copper for additional cost. Hi end areas start at $2500.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> You want rip off? $4500 to replace 9 uc lights, install hood, put plug and receptacle on range, change light bulb, replace two outside landscape fixtures. Two days and $500 material.


$2000 a day labor is very fair in my opinion. When I quote jobs I always assume whole days with minimum materials to be about $2000 or so, more like $2500.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electrictim510 said:


> $2000 a day labor is very fair in my opinion. When I quote jobs I always assume whole days with minimum materials to be about $2000 or so, more like $2500.


How about making $4000.00 for a day doing a simple 150 amp. service change that was billed out at $6,450.00 to an 82 yr. old lady.. :furious:


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

$6500 may be a little high but I would have to see the service to say. I personally think services should have a higher rate though. I only price mine at about 2-3k because of competition and I think it needs to be slightly higher but '$6500' and 'old lady' seem like someone is taking advantage more than anything. 

I don't have as much of a problem with charging higher rates as I do with recommending work that is unnecessary like telling a customer that "to fix your lights and plugs we HAVE to replace your service".


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> $1500 for most, $6500 if it is an old lady that I can rip off.



Now that just aint right Bob.

Ya gotta screw everybody! Just some more.:thumbsup:

And as far as the boiler post.....

Why the ..BLEEP.... Do ya think he called the Electrician before the Plumber !!!!!!!????????


DAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!:whistling2:

Sorry,just hit me.:jester:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I want multi stack services, took a pic of one I done early this year for $11,000 but pic was to big to post.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> I want multi stack services, took a pic of one I done early this year for $11,000 but pic was to big to post.



Resize it.:thumbsup:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Resize it.:thumbsup:


This is too much of a headache to deal with....I tried.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> This is too much of a headache to deal with....I tried.



Wow. Of all the things you can do with graphics programs, resizing an image is the_ easiest_!


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Wow. Of all the things you can do with graphics programs, resizing an image is the_ easiest_!


I find it easier to wrestle with 500mcm in a 6" troft. The size restriction sucks.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I find it easier to wrestle with 500mcm in a 6" *troft*.


Holy Moses!!!


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> I find it easier to wrestle with 500mcm in a 6" troft. The size restriction sucks.


copper or aluminum? :laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

randas said:


> copper or aluminum? :laughing:


Copper of course.


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