# Structured Wiring



## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Does anybody have any suggestions on structured media panels? Preferred brands? What is your average install like? Do you integrate alarm system with cameras, media, network? I'm really looking for advice from people who have recent experience, since technology changes so fast.

I'm looking to do a basic install (network and cable distribution at the least) but I don't want to sell the guy short. If I'm not being specific enough, let me enough let me know.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

You can try ICC products or Legrand. 

If your looking for inexpensive keystone jacks and patch panels you can also try Monoprice.

Are you doing this install for residential?

If you run CAT6 to each room, TV location, WiFi access point location, camera location, etc. then you can bring them all down to a patch panel with nice labels. You can color code your wire and/or labeling to represent different uses. (ie: white for internet, red for TV's, blue for Wifi AP's). 
If wiring a new house or open structure now, I will always recommend a CAT6 to various locations or floors for WiFi AP's. 
If your running any home runs for TV's, whether it's from a TV to an equipment cabinet or TV to utility area, it's always good to run two lines for redundancy.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Commercial or residential? If it's residential, you want a wireless alarm system (less holes) You don't need Cat6 for a "home network", Cat5 will be fine. But doing it after the walls are closed, it's better to use Panduit, than trying to fish the walls (fire blocks). Hopefully it's a single story with a high attic. If you have a basement, you got it made. Home Depot should carry everything you'll need. (patch panels, inserts, cut-in plates, multi-port wall plates, etc.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Kaffeene said:


> You can try ICC products or Legrand.
> 
> If your looking for inexpensive keystone jacks and patch panels you can also try Monoprice.
> 
> ...


This is residential. I met with the homeowner for about 10 minutes, and I have 2 weeks to rewire existing electric and addition. I want to give him at least the bare necessities since I nor he knows what he really wants or needs. I wasn't sure about wireless access points. What do you use in residential?

I told him I would prewire the cameras but I wasn't sure how I should do that since I don't know what kind of system we would use. If I take them to a patch panel like you say, that would give me the most flexibility, correct?

When you talk about coax redundancy what are you typically preparing for? 

Do you run phone lines to each data location? This guy is happy with the minimum of one in the kitchen but should I just run them throughout to be safe?

Thanks for the info.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

joebanana said:


> Commercial or residential? If it's residential, you want a wireless alarm system (less holes) You don't need Cat6 for a "home network", Cat5 will be fine. But doing it after the walls are closed, it's better to use Panduit, than trying to fish the walls (fire blocks). Hopefully it's a single story with a high attic. If you have a basement, you got it made. Home Depot should carry everything you'll need. (patch panels, inserts, cut-in plates, multi-port wall plates, etc.


This is residential. I have never done an alarm system before and even though most of this job is open or new framing wireless sounds great. I didn't look at your profile, do you do alarms? Is wireless worth it? I have seen a lot of wireless stuff, and I recently worked with an alarm contractor with a bunch of wireless (switches, door locks, sensors) and it was very cool.

Thanks


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

Well you dont need CAT6 for a home network, but all the products I use recommend it for POE cameras, POE access points and HDMI extenders.

My experience with Home Depot low voltage products has been overpriced and low quality.
If you want decent inexpensive jacks then Monoprice is pretty good.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Kaffeene said:


> Well you dont need CAT6 for a home network, but all the products I use recommend it for POE cameras, POE access points and HDMI extenders.
> 
> My experience with Home Depot low voltage products has been overpriced and low quality.
> If you want decent inexpensive jacks then Monoprice is pretty good.


I honestly don't know where to start. I figured I would just buy a bunch of Leviton stuff and put it in their media box. Phones, network, catv, camera wires, all ran to the same enclosure and terminated to Leviton devices. And now, I realize I need access points. Any other suggestions?


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

CFL said:


> This is residential. I met with the homeowner for about 10 minutes, and I have 2 weeks to rewire existing electric and addition. I want to give him at least the bare necessities since I nor he knows what he really wants or needs. I wasn't sure about wireless access points. What do you use in residential?
> 
> I told him I would prewire the cameras but I wasn't sure how I should do that since I don't know what kind of system we would use. If I take them to a patch panel like you say, that would give me the most flexibility, correct?
> 
> ...


I started using Ubiquiti Unifi access points. Sure you can use WiFi repeaters / extenders, but this cuts the bandwidth in half. So if I have an opportunity to hard wire an access point or two or three, I'd rather do that. 
Also if someone has a big backyard then I use outdoor units. 

If everything goes back to a patch panel then you will have flexibility.
Typically IP cameras and AP's use POE (power over ethernet) and you can use either the POE injector provided with the device or a POE network switch by the patch panel to send power to the devices. 


Sorry I didn't clarify before, I wasn't referring to Coax redundancy, I was talking about CAT6 to TV's. I usually run 2 - CAT6's to a TV location, unless you have an HDMI cable there as well then you will be fine with one CAT6 to a TV.
Good HDMI extenders can send audio, video, ethernet & IR. This is good for long distance. 
Or if the customer only wants a TV on the wall above a piece of furniture to put a cable box and/or SAT box and/or Bluray in, then an HDMI cable for each piece of equipment (unless your using an AV Receiver) and perhaps an extra CAT6 for IR signals or hardwired ethernet. 
Don't forget to bring an RG6 Coax to the cabinet location. One Coax is sufficient.

Also I usually wire for audio. Whether be a single zone for music in the kitchen or multiple zones including a back patio and family room surround.

One phone line is probably fine. That's all I usually do now, sometimes maybe 2 if there is an office. These days a base unit is plugged into the jack and cordless handsets are distributed among the house. 


If you just want the bare necessities then a single phone line, couple of Coax to some TV equipment locations and a Cat5 or 6 to an office or computuer location and it's good to have hard wired ethernet at TV equipment locations.
If it's wired up nice you can always figure out the equipment for TV's, cameras, WiFi, audio, etc. later.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Kaffeene said:


> Well you dont need CAT6 for a home network, but all the products I use recommend it for POE cameras, POE access points and HDMI extenders.
> 
> My experience with Home Depot low voltage products has been overpriced and low quality.
> If you want decent inexpensive jacks then Monoprice is pretty good.


Leviton, and Beldin is "low quality"? Home depot is "high priced"? In my 39+ career I've NEVER HEARD of "Monoprice" must be a Canadian thing. But then all of my networking experience has been commercial, high rise, campus, and governmental. Who uses POE? Who has an MDF, or IDF in their homes? Who uses HDMI extenders in a home? IP/WiFi, seems to be the common method here in the US.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

CFL said:


> This is residential. I have never done an alarm system before and even though most of this job is open or new framing wireless sounds great. I didn't look at your profile, do you do alarms? Is wireless worth it? I have seen a lot of wireless stuff, and I recently worked with an alarm contractor with a bunch of wireless (switches, door locks, sensors) and it was very cool.
> 
> Thanks


I don't do "wired" residential alarms, too much hassle, not a good return. We call ADT(monitored system). Get in touch with that contractor you worked with, and see if he'll sub for ya. Don't forget your cut on the bid.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Kaffeene said:


> I started using Ubiquiti Unifi access points. Sure you can use WiFi repeaters / extenders, but this cuts the bandwidth in half. So if I have an opportunity to hard wire an access point or two or three, I'd rather do that.
> Also if someone has a big backyard then I use outdoor units.
> 
> If everything goes back to a patch panel then you will have flexibility.
> ...


Thank you for the excellent post. I have been out of residential for 10 years, and have more or less kept up with new stuff, but I needed the reassurance and advice, much appreciated.

Do you install a WIFI router in the patch panel? The reason I ask is I'm wondering what size panel I need. If I put camera equipment inside (or PoE injector) I know that will hog up some room. Also, if I do wire for audio, I was looking at putting that in the panel as well. I'm sorry if these sound like dumb questions, I just don't want to look like an idiot later setting crap up on the washing machine with wires coming out the panel door or something.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

joebanana said:


> I don't do "wired" residential alarms, too much hassle, not a good return. We call ADT(monitored system). Get in touch with that contractor you worked with, and see if he'll sub for ya. Don't forget your cut on the bid.


All I needed was one post like yours to talk me out of it. Thanks, I really don't want to take on the alarm system because of the deadline.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

CFL said:


> All I needed was one post like yours to talk me out of it. Thanks, I really don't want to take on the alarm system because of the deadline.


Didn't mean to talk you out of work, but I'm pretty sure you'll be happier not doing it, especially with a completion date hanging over you. Unless you've done a lot of them, and have knowledgeable guy's it's probably better to take a pass.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

joebanana said:


> Didn't mean to talk you out of work, but I'm pretty sure you'll be happier not doing it, especially with a completion date hanging over you. Unless you've done a lot of them, and have knowledgeable guy's it's probably better to take a pass.


It's something I would like to get into. I just would like to be better educated, and obviously time being an issue, there's a lot of possibilities for screw ups.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

CFL said:


> It's something I would like to get into. I just would like to be better educated, and obviously time being an issue, there's a lot of possibilities for screw ups.


It seems that ADT has cornered the market on "home security", at least here in So. Cal. They just "peel-n-stick" motion detectors, and hook up their "billing machine" to the phone line, and they're done in a 1/2 hour. Who can compete with that?


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

joebanana said:


> It seems that ADT has cornered the market on "home security", at least here in So. Cal. They just "peel-n-stick" motion detectors, and hook up their "billing machine" to the phone line, and they're done in a 1/2 hour. Who can compete with that?


I just had a service call recently where the woman was asking if I knew a company other than ADT. The part I'm interested in is the integration of the alarm and automation.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

CFL said:


> Thank you for the excellent post. I have been out of residential for 10 years, and have more or less kept up with new stuff, but I needed the reassurance and advice, much appreciated.
> 
> Do you install a WIFI router in the patch panel? The reason I ask is I'm wondering what size panel I need. If I put camera equipment inside (or PoE injector) I know that will hog up some room. Also, if I do wire for audio, I was looking at putting that in the panel as well. I'm sorry if these sound like dumb questions, I just don't want to look like an idiot later setting crap up on the washing machine with wires coming out the panel door or something.


You can put the WiFi router near the equipment on a shelf or mount it to a wall. Inside any LV panel it will interfere with the wireless transmission, unless you just use a router (no WiFi) and use WiFi access points. 

You could install the phone, TV cable and network lines into a LV cabinet. Don't forget a Cat5e & RG6 cable from the LV cabinet to the exterior for connection to the cable, SAT and/or phone company. 

The equipment for audio and/or cameras would most likely be on shelf, in a cabinet or equipment rack. 
You can bring the speaker cables & camera lines to a nearby location in a cabinet or on a shelf. Run a network line from your LV cabinet to that location and just terminate it with a jack & wall plate so the camera DVR and audio gear can connect to the internet. 
Same thing for the WiFi router, run at lease 2 network lines from the LV cabinet to the WiFi router location (one in & one out), maybe a cable line too for a modem or if they use FiOS (unless you want to keep the modem in the LV cabinet). 
If your not doing any WiFi AP's in the house then I would keep the WiFi router central to and high up in the house for a better signal.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

joebanana said:


> Leviton, and Beldin is "low quality"? Home depot is "high priced"? In my 39+ career I've NEVER HEARD of "Monoprice" must be a Canadian thing. But then all of my networking experience has been commercial, high rise, campus, and governmental. Who uses POE? Who has an MDF, or IDF in their homes? Who uses HDMI extenders in a home? IP/WiFi, seems to be the common method here in the US.


I didn't say that Leviton and Beldin are low quality, just my experience with Home Depot LV products like CE Tech. Monoprice is an online site that sells lots of different things, LV products being some of what they sell. I was just saying some of their jacks and patch cables are decent for the price if someone wanted inexpensive and decent. Not always my first choice. 

I use power over ethernet & HDMI extenders all the time, in my house and customers. 
If I need an HDMI connection where the distance exceeds 50-75ft I use an extender. I also use them if an in-wall HDMI cable is damaged, but they have a CAT5 or 6.
All the cameras and ceiling mounted WiFi access points I use are all POE. 
The camera DVR's usually have POE ports built right in.


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

Cat5 is enough?? No! You're supposed to upsell to Cat6a for the central media server simulstreaming 4k 3D to the den and the mancave without lag drops in Junior's Call of Duty!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

I mostly install Cat6a all the time anyway now. It doesn't cost that much more than 5e.


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

Kaffeene said:


> I mostly install Cat6a all the time anyway now. It doesn't cost that much more than 5e.


Do you go the whole nine yards with the shielded Cat6a connectors & plugs or use regular fittings and leave that as a future upgrade option? 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

Jarp Habib said:


> Do you go the whole nine yards with the shielded Cat6a connectors & plugs or use regular fittings and leave that as a future upgrade option?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


I don't use the shielded, but it is recommended for use with an HDMI extender I use. I haven't had any issues not using it though.


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## triden (Jun 13, 2012)

Jarp Habib said:


> Cat5 is enough?? No! You're supposed to upsell to Cat6a for the central media server simulstreaming 4k 3D to the den and the mancave without lag drops in Junior's Call of Duty!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


You laugh now but wait two years...


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm done with the rough in, now I'm ordering parts for trim. I used an Onq panel to house patch panel, video splitter etc.. I was going to use onq modules from the supply house without knowing any better. Doing some searching on here I saw several people calling their stuff crap. What is wrong with it other than being different from something you would use in other than residential? Too expensive? Too cheap? I don't see how it wouldn't get the job done, Any opinions?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

CFL said:


> I'm done with the rough in, now I'm ordering parts for trim. I used an Onq panel to house patch panel, video splitter etc.. I was going to use onq modules from the supply house without knowing any better. Doing some searching on here I saw several people calling their stuff crap. What is wrong with it other than being different from something you would use in other than residential? Too expensive? Too cheap? I don't see how it wouldn't get the job done, Any opinions?


I am not an OnQ fan, but I'd just make it all OnQ rather than mix it up now. You're already committed to OnQ in the frame. It's not that big of a deal. There's no real value in using one brand from end to end, but I usually do it anyway. Sometimes it's necessary for manufacturer's warranties etc. 

Anything I install I use top quality brands, but once in a while I use the cheapos. For example I occasionally get basket case job, reterminating and cleaning up after DIYs or others that made a mess of a frame. Invariably the part I'm not touching is a mess - crap cable, poorly installed, trimmed in garbage. I dress it up and make it manageable but I can't make it all right. 

I'm not going to torment fine high quality jacks by installing them in these ****bird networks, they deserve better. And it wouldn't make the finished product any better, no more than giving me a manicure would make me an underpants model. 

So I buy cheapos, I have a couple brands of cheapos that I have found really aren't that bad. OnQ is one of these better-crap jacks. My problem is they are overpriced for what they are, crap but not rock bottom price. I'd use them in a pinch without a second thought.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

i agree with the idea of wiring redundant circuits
when ever wiring communications and audio networking always prepare for future expansion.
it makes your life a lot easier for you and your customer alike.:thumbup:


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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

CFL said:


> I'm done with the rough in, now I'm ordering parts for trim. I used an Onq panel to house patch panel, video splitter etc.. I was going to use onq modules from the supply house without knowing any better. Doing some searching on here I saw several people calling their stuff crap. What is wrong with it other than being different from something you would use in other than residential? Too expensive? Too cheap? I don't see how it wouldn't get the job done, Any opinions?



--

I typically use the OnQ ends. I have not used their panels, but just keystones. I found the keystones to work quite well, have not had any issues, other than some were incorrect from the wholesaler, but that is not the fault of OnQ.

They are not the most expensive, nor that cheap either. I found them to be better than some of the other brands, and their keystones seem to fit all the plate covers that I have thrown at it, whereas some of the other brands are more finicky.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Thread moved here....


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

I priced a 12 port onq CAT6 patch panel at $80 vs same number of ports on a standard vertical patch panel for $30. I'll go with the $30 one!

Thanks for the help guys.


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