# This installation is unprofessional



## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

Well, this is my floor:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Got to love the marking tape.. someone has a sense of humor.. :no::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Stan B. said:


> since they did not take care to make sure the fuses were all the same length.


I wonder if they glow at FLC...:laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

That second picture, I've seen someone do that with a FA cable to an RTU no less. They didn't want to run a dedicated conduit through the roof, so they squeezed the FA wire through a gap in a flex connector and into the conduit for the RTU feeder.

We found it when the pinched cable faulted out and sent the alarm into trouble.

-John


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

Is that FPE? I'm on a renovation with switchgear and discos that have those same handles.


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

rdr said:


> Is that FPE? I'm on a renovation with switchgear and discos that have those same handles.


I believe so (took this picture 3 or 4 years ago), you see these guys everywhere.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Stan B. said:


> since they did not take care to make sure the fuses were all the same length.


 
Whatsamatter? They're color coded!


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Big John said:


> That second picture, I've seen someone do that with a FA cable to an RTU no less. They didn't want to run a dedicated conduit through the roof, so they squeezed the FA wire through a gap in a flex connector and into the conduit for the RTU feeder.
> 
> We found it when the pinched cable faulted out and sent the alarm into trouble.
> 
> -John



Every Fire Alarm contact I have ever seen in a RTU was a NC connection


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I_get_shocked said:


> Every Fire Alarm contact I have ever seen in a RTU was a NC connection


 It probably was. But it the pinched wire caused a ground fault.

-John


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Big John said:


> It probably was. But it the pinched wire caused a ground fault.
> 
> -John


That is what i thought.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> Every Fire Alarm contact I have ever seen in a RTU was a NC connection


 
Same here.

But, 99 percent of the time that contact is a dropout for the unit.

It just goes thru dry contacts in the Fire Alarm.

It doesnt tie into the system wiring.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

Stan B. said:


> I believe so (took this picture 3 or 4 years ago), you see these guys everywhere.


Yeah still getting over seeing them so often when I saw so few in the states.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Awg-Dawg said:


> Same here.
> 
> But, 99 percent of the time that contact is a dropout for the unit.
> 
> ...


Exactly I have mostly seen them on aux contacts on duct smokes, so I dont understand how it can place the Fire Alarm into trouble. Whats causing the ground fault?


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

I_get_shocked said:


> Every Fire Alarm contact I have ever seen in a RTU was a NC connection


Most fire alarm devices are NC. Current is sourced through these devices from the panel through the device and back. The "trouble" can be generated either through removal of the from it's base, total disconnection from the line, or on this case a ground fault. All the systems I have dealt with had the capability of sensing a ground fault on the zone wiring via built-in detection circuitry. It would also indicate a trouble indication at the panel.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I_get_shocked said:


> Exactly I have mostly seen them on aux contacts on duct smokes, so I dont understand how it can place the Fire Alarm into trouble. Whats causing the ground fault?


 I honestly couldn't say, it's been too long. All I remember is getting the fault, finding the wire and re-running it. We wouldn't have had any idea it faulted out if it hadn't shown up on the board, so I can say it wasn't a dry loop.

I'm tempted to say some sort of integral duct-smoke, but that's probably not right, because I remember installing separate duct smokes not far from the RTUs.

-John


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Big John said:


> I'm tempted to say some sort of integral duct-smoke, but that's probably not right, because I remember installing separate duct smokes not far from the RTUs.
> 
> -John


 
I remember wiring one that was integral.

So it is possible.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jmsmith said:


> Most fire alarm devices are NC. Current is sourced through these devices from the panel through the device and back. The "trouble" can be generated either through removal of the from it's base, total disconnection from the line, or on this case a ground fault. All the systems I have dealt with had the capability of sensing a ground fault on the zone wiring via built-in detection circuitry. It would also indicate a trouble indication at the panel.


Not so, most fire alarm initiating devices are NO and close on alarm.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Not so, most fire alarm initiating devices are NO and close ........


...... to initiate an alarm. :thumbsup:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Not so, most fire alarm initiating devices are NO and close on alarm.


 
I agree pork chop.

Ive never seen one with NC.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Awg-Dawg said:


> I agree pork chop.



:laughing:


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Not so, most fire alarm initiating devices are NO and close on alarm.


That's right... I stand corrected. Thinking backwards there. Thanks.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jmsmith said:


> Thinking backwards there.


It happens to us all. 

If you work with security devices most of them are NC.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> It happens to us all.
> 
> If you work with security devices most of them are NC.


Probably where I got than from... Have gotten to dabble in both on some of the projects I have worked on. Anyway, will try to engage brain before opening my mouth next time. Y'all have a good one.
:thumbsup:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

jmsmith said:


> Most fire alarm devices are NC. Current is sourced through these devices from the panel through the device and back. The "trouble" can be generated either through removal of the from it's base, total disconnection from the line, or on this case a ground fault. All the systems I have dealt with had the capability of sensing a ground fault on the zone wiring via built-in detection circuitry. It would also indicate a trouble indication at the panel.


 
That is true with supervisory devices.


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