# Florida Meter Panel



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Simpson Electric said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new to Florida and have noticed that none of the outdoor meter panels have a main switch, it’s always located at the subpanel. In California this was mandatory and makes sense to me.
> Is there an amendment to the code or some other reason inspectors don’t want to see the main switch outside?
> ...


When in Rome man, do as the Romans do. Nobody had main discos up until the code required them as of late. It was unique to the Southwest and California. Also outdoor panels for interior circuits, another freakish California/Southwest thingy. Not done anywhere along the East coast. Another Florida standard: Bringing all the NMs through ONE big KO and no gland or clamp. PS Florida sucks I'm sorry you're there - we despetately need sparks on Long Island and Upstate NY and the eentire Northeast region. We got 4 seasons, the Atlantic, Fire Island, Jones and Robert Moses beaches, and MONEY. And tradesmen are respected, coveted in fact. In the South you're just another has been or soon will be Methhead.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

It is not a subpanel when it is the main disconnecting means, it is the service with a meter socket out side.


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

LGLS said:


> Another Florida standard: Bringing all the NMs through ONE big KO and no gland or clamp. PS Florida sucks I'm sorry you're there - we despetately need sparks on Long Island and Upstate NY and the eentire Northeast region.


Interesting you mention that. In the past a panel change out was "like for like" and no need to update to any current code. (like changing a light switch really).
The last panel change in Pinellas County we changed out like for like, installed a new meter can, and installed new grounds as the originals were non-functional.
The inspector REJECTED the install. He did not give written rejection nor did he call out the code. He gave specific instruction that we could not use the 2 or 2.5 inch x 12 inch long conduit for branch circuits. The instruction was to bring EACH branch in through its own KO.

So apparently FL is not only beginning to enforce the clamped entry but will not allow a conduit entry with single clamp and is requiring UPGRADE in change out as well. All new for our county or all being required by a rogue inspector?

I had already left FL for family business so I did not get involved w the AHJ in this one. Had I been there I would have asked for the exact code that was being violated and the cause for rejection to that code in writing.
Frankly, every branch circuit had been tie wrapped in ways that created strain relief anyway. Grounds and neutrals bundled in the run with tie wraps as well. VERY clean install. There was no way to pull any wire up or down in the conduit. The bushing was in place properly. There was no actual justification to upgrade current code as changing like for like meets the code as far as I know and the tie wraps created effective clamps.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Djea3 said:


> Interesting you mention that. In the past a panel change out was "like for like" and no need to update to any current code. (like changing a light switch really).
> The last panel change in Pinellas County we changed out like for like, installed a new meter can, and installed new grounds as the originals were non-functional.
> The inspector REJECTED the install. He did not give written rejection nor did he call out the code. He gave specific instruction that we could not use the 2 or 2.5 inch x 12 inch long conduit for branch circuits. The instruction was to bring EACH branch in through its own KO.
> 
> ...


Well, truth be tols I never heard that changing like for like meant that you were grandfathered. Replace a vintage 1960's bathroom outlet it better be a GFCI, but from what you're saying a new receptacle instead of an old one is colpliance? 

Honestly, I'm glad to haer Florida isn't allowing the ridiculiously stupid tricks the residentia sun beaten, drug addicted hacks who work blue collar down there anymore. Or any less???


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

LGLS said:


> Well, truth be tols I never heard that changing like for like meant that you were grandfathered. Replace a vintage 1960's bathroom outlet it better be a GFCI, but from what you're saying a new receptacle instead of an old one is colpliance?
> 
> Honestly, I'm glad to haer Florida isn't allowing the ridiculiously stupid tricks the residentia sun beaten, drug addicted hacks who work blue collar down there anymore. Or any less???


I won't take it that you directed the degrading comment to me specifically.
I have changed out MANY panels like for like. And no, we do not have to change the breakers to AFC/GFC in a panel change out even if the new code states that a new build requires it. There is a lot of good reasoning behind it. 
Many older homes had mixed neutrals on branch circuits. AFC and GFC will not work in that case. Also, many homeowners change panels because several breakers quit working and they are showing signs of sparking at the buss. If a change out required full upgrade the cost would more than triple most likely and the customer would decide to live with it until the panel flamed. It is in public interest that like for like be allowed in general. BTW, if I KNOW a circuit does not have mixed neutrals I will usually install the bath/kitchen/wet location gfci's in the panel. Makes more sense in remodels now days.

I would never leave a kitchen or bath unprotected from GFCI in any service call , and I believe that particular upgrade IS required and not grandfathered at change out. It is certainly called out by any home inspector before any sale therefore it usually gets done within 7 years (average sale of home). 

I said a SWITCH, which is what a breaker is as well as a protective device. In fact I prefer panels with breakers that are switch rated if the customer can afford it. They will last much longer and have less issue.


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

SWDweller said:


> It is not a subpanel when it is the main disconnecting means, it is the service with a meter socket out side.


Since the main panel outside is the source of supply for the indoor panel isn't the outdoor panel the Service Disconnecting Means even if it was manufactured under a previous version of the six throws of the hand rule? Recent changes to the National Electric Code (NEC) prevent the use of a six double pole panel as a Service Disconnecting Means. The previous rule that required that a panel only have 1 or 2 disconnecting means put a stop to the use of split buss panels. This new approach puts a stop to the use of Six breakers serving as the Service Disconnecting Means unless they are mounted in separate enclosures or separate compartments of fewer enclosures. The upshot is that you cannot have any live parts exposed to contact in the same enclosure, or separate compartment within an enclosure, with terminals which may need to be inspected or repaired. 

Previous to these new rules the use of a 12 slot CTL panel as a service disconnecting means was rather common.

Tom Horne


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