# gfci 15 or 20 amps?



## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

No need for 20. What are the 20 amp groups reasons?

Unless you have some local amendment.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

mikewillnot said:


> We're having an argument here. Residential rehab, new service entrance, no branch circuits connected except (1) 20-amp circuit feeding (1) GFCI outlet next to the panel box feeding (1) overhead pullchain light connected as a slave to the gfci. Does the gfci need to be a 20amp t-slot?


It can be a 15. There's no need for 20 amp devices in a dwelling unit, ever.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Allow me to rephrase the question
Is the gfci required by code to be a 20amp t-slot?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

mikewillnot said:


> Allow me to rephrase the question
> Is the gfci required by code to be a 20amp t-slot?


Not required.

Why is your light on the load side of the GFCI?


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

No particular reason other than General protection for idiot tenants who tend to stick things into light bulb sockets


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

You dont need 20A "T slot" receptacles on any general 20A circuit in a house period.


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## cortez (Oct 23, 2011)

15 amps here in Chicago (note own code here and not national code). 

We must remember that the various codes are legal in nature  and not necessarily empirically based on electrical theories or actuarially based assessments. 

Your location and "connections" politically determine their legality (sad but true). 

Get political and profit. :thumbsup:


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

I think his question is since the circuit is on a 20A breaker, does the GFCI receptacle need to be 20A or can it be a 15A.


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

FrunkSlammer said:


> I think his question is since the circuit is on a 20A breaker, does the GFCI receptacle need to be 20A or can it be a 15A.


That's the way I understood it too.
20 amp breaker in a 15 amp device?


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Correct


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MTW said:


> It can be a 15. There's no need for 20 amp devices in a dwelling unit, ever.





Bugz11B said:


> You dont need 20A "T slot" receptacles on any general 20A circuit in a house period.


Not totally true. If you run a 20 amp circuit to a single receptacle then it must be 20 amp-- as in a window unit a/c receptacle or something of that nature. art 210.21(B)(1)


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

This is a single receptacle. It is also a duplex GFCI. Its not dedicated to a single use though. Its just hangin there on the wall next to the panel box.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> This is a single receptacle. It is also a duplex GFCI. Its not dedicated to a single use though. Its just hangin there on the wall next to the panel box.


If it feeds more than one receptacle then it does not need 20 amp receptacles. We wire kitchens in dwellings and use 15 amp devices all the time.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Let's see. I could upgrade the gfci to 20 amps and spend 10 dollars or switch the breaker to fifteen amps.


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

mikewillnot said:


> Let's see. I could upgrade the gfci to 20 amps and spend 10 dollars or switch the breaker to fifteen amps.


You don't need to, the 15A gfci is good.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I cannot remember the last time I saw a piece of equipment with a 5-20 plug.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

MTW said:


> It can be a 15. There's no need for 20 amp devices in a dwelling unit, ever.


LOL What?


So, You _are _Cletis after all...

:laughing::laughing:


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

mikewillnot said:


> Allow me to rephrase the question
> Is the gfci required by code to be a 20amp t-slot?


Only if it is the only device on the circuit or it is dedicated to serve a greater than 15A load.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

mikewillnot said:


> This is a single receptacle. It is also a duplex GFCI. Its not dedicated to a single use though. Its just hangin there on the wall next to the panel box.


It is NOT a single receptacle. It is a duplex receptacle. It's TWO receptacles on a single device yoke. THIS is the reason you can have it on a 20A circuit.


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Not trying to criticize but how is feeding a 15 amp rated device with a 20 amp rated breaker ok?
Weather it's a single or duplex it's still rated at 15 amps right?


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

five.five-six said:


> Only if it is the only device on the circuit or it is dedicated to serve a greater than 15A load.


It's a duplex, it's no different than a laundry circuit or a bathroom circuit with only one gfci.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Hmacanada said:


> Not trying to criticize but how is feeding a 15 amp rated device with a 20 amp rated breaker ok?
> Weather it's a single or duplex it's still rated at 15 amps right?



210.21(B)(3).........that's how.

Same table allows 40a receps on 50a circuits.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Not totally true. If you run a 20 amp circuit to a single receptacle then it must be 20 amp-- as in a window unit a/c receptacle or something of that nature. art 210.21(B)(1)





Bugz11B said:


> You dont need 20A "T slot" receptacles on any general 20A circuit in a house period.


general meaning in the kitchen, dining ect SA circuits. can all be 20A with 15A receptacle.


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Just to be a smart a**!
Now I know how arc fault breakers got so popular down there


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Not totally true. If you run a 20 amp circuit to a single receptacle then it must be 20 amp-- as in a window unit a/c receptacle or something of that nature. art 210.21(B)(1)


I'm aware of that code reference.  But unless the cord cap is an actual 20 amp cap, there's no need to install a 20 amp receptacle.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MTW said:


> I'm aware of that code reference.  But unless the cord cap is an actual 20 amp cap, there's no need to install a 20 amp receptacle.


That is not true. There is nothing in art 210.21(B)((1) that gives exception for a cord cap


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is not true. There is nothing in art 210.21(B)((1) that gives exception for a cord cap


I know what the code says. I'm declaring what _I_ would do. :thumbsup:


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## silver50032000 (Jan 21, 2014)

Hmacanada said:


> That's the way I understood it too.
> 20 amp breaker in a 15 amp device?


Lights cannot be fed from a 20 amp circuit in a residence,am I correct?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

silver50032000 said:


> Lights cannot be fed from a 20 amp circuit in a residence,am I correct?


That would be a Canadian thing. In the US, it's perfectly legal.


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## silver50032000 (Jan 21, 2014)

480sparky said:


> That would be a Canadian thing. In the US, it's perfectly legal.


I didn't know that.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Hmacanada said:


> Not trying to criticize but how is feeding a 15 amp rated device with a 20 amp rated breaker ok?
> Weather it's a single or duplex it's still rated at 15 amps right?


Because a 15A duplex is TWO 15A rated receptacles sharing a single device yoke. EACH receptacle is rated for 15A.
The DEVICE is rated for 20A feed-thru.


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

silver50032000 said:


> Lights cannot be fed from a 20 amp circuit in a residence,am I correct?


Actually lights can be on a 20 amp circ .
But only lights and fixed loads


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Hmacanada said:


> Actually lights can be on a 20 amp circ .
> But only lights and fixed loads


You sure? I was under the impression as well that lights cannot be on a breaker greater than 15A. I'll gonna go digging in the good book.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

FrunkSlammer said:


> You sure? I was under the impression as well that lights cannot be on a breaker greater than 15A. I'll gonna go digging in the good book.


If this is true, I've been wrong for a very long time.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Legacyelectric said:


> If this is true, I've been wrong for a very long time.


In Canada, in residential dwellings.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Oh, in Canada. Ok.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Found it. 30-104(a)


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Educate me, I noticed the reference voltage is 347v. What is residential voltage in Canada? Forgive my ignorance


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Legacyelectric said:


> Educate me, I noticed the reference voltage is 347v. What is residential voltage in Canada? Forgive my ignorance


347/600 is commercial/industrial. Resi is either 120/240 or 120/208.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

120/208 3 ph?


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

347/600.... I had NO IDEA. Very cool info. Thanks!


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Found it. 30-104(a)


 Thanks frunk!
I knew the rule# was going to come in


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Do I understand that FrunkSlammer's code reference is from the Canadian code? 
And that things are down south here, as I always knew they were?


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

mikewillnot said:


> Do I understand that FrunkSlammer's code reference is from the Canadian code?
> And that things are down south here, as I always knew they were?


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## Canadian sparky (Sep 19, 2011)

Only 15 amps for lighting circuits in dwellings..
See 30-104(a)


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

MTW said:


> It can be a 15. There's no need for 20 amp devices in a dwelling unit, ever.


wrong. Check your code. 210.21 B 2


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

rewire said:


> wrong. Check your code. 210.21 B 2


Dude, I've forgotten more code than most electricians know. :thumbsup:


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

MTW said:


> Dude, I've forgotten more code than most electricians know. :thumbsup:


Is that good or bad?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MTW said:


> I know what the code says. I'm declaring what _I_ would do. :thumbsup:


I wondered why you kept going there because I was sure you knew the code-- I thought that you were saying what you would do but it wasn't what you wrote so I wanted it to be clear to the others.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

The only time a t slot 20 amp device is required is when there is only one single receptacle on a dedicated circuit . It must be rated to the ocpd.


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## electricianlife (Jul 3, 2013)

210.21(b)(3)


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

4SQUARE said:


> You don't need to, the 15A gfci is good.


My PVC hot box had one so I had to twist it vertically to fit.:whistling2:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

cortez said:


> 15 amps here in Chicago (note own code here and not national code).
> 
> We must remember that the various codes are legal in nature and not necessarily empirically based on electrical theories or actuarially based assessments.
> 
> ...


Best statement in a long time. That's going to be my new signature :laughing:


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## icemanjc (Dec 25, 2012)

jrannis said:


> My PVC hot box had one so I had to twist it vertically to fit.:whistling2:


We didn't like the idea of OSHA chewing our faces off and taking our money so we just cut off all the ends and threw on 15 amp ends.

It's just very humorous when someone plugs the hot box into a 100 ft 16 gauge cord. That baby burns!


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Something is wrong with this thread. I see my name and avatar with posts I didn't make...


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Bugz11B said:


> Something is wrong with this thread. I see my name and avatar with posts I didn't make...


Could you have been drunk?:jester:


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Switched said:


> Could you have been drunk?:jester:


Nope, I remember it now, I thought this was a similar thread from today but it's months old.


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