# No work?



## Memphis2010 (May 25, 2010)

I have been accepted to local 474. I passed my drug test and on Monday I need to go in and pay my union dues then they will put my name in a book. What I'm worried about is the work. If it is reliable or not.

How long (average) do you think I will be waiting for a job call? I believe I am ranked 1st on the list.

Here's the link to my local's job list 

http://www.ibewlocal474.com/refer.htm

I don't understand what the hell it means.. is it saying there is only _one_ job available with 250 people waiting?

I am currently working and put in my two weeks..now I'm thinking that was a bad idea...

For gaps between working are we allowed to collect unemployment? Sorry I am just a nervous wreck with my first baby due in October.. 


any advice is great


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

> is it saying there is only _one_ job available with 250 people waiting?


 Yes, if there were more jobs there wouldn't be 250 people waiting.

On Monday the hall might get a call for 3 men, then 3 men go out. On Tuesday the hall might get a call for 15 men, then 15 men go out. On Wednesday that hall might not get any calls at all, then no one goes out. So on and so forth. You are never going to see that many open jobs because the men on the list will fill them. The only time you see a lot of open jobs are when times are good and the hall is empty.

I don't know much about your situation, why you would just be accepted and be first on the list, etc. The best people to talk to are your business agents.

Yes, if you get laid off you can collect unemployment.


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## Memphis2010 (May 25, 2010)

JLA said:


> Yes, if there were more jobs there wouldn't be 250 people waiting.
> 
> On Monday the hall might get a call for 3 men, then 3 men go out. On Tuesday the hall might get a call for 15 men, then 15 men go out. On Wednesday that hall might not get any calls at all, then no one goes out. So on and so forth. You are never going to see that many open jobs because the men on the list will fill them. The only time you see a lot of open jobs are when times are good and the hall is empty.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your response! That's definitely discouraging though. Do apprentices get more work than non-apprentices?

what does this mean?

"*There are 251 people on Book 1 and the Short Call was Un-Filled on Friday July 23rd"


*


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

Memphis2010 said:


> Thanks for your response! That's definitely discouraging though. Do apprentices get more work than non-apprentices?
> 
> what does this mean?
> 
> ...


Sure, usually the apprentice list is much shorter.

What that means is that there are 251 people out of work. The one job that came in on Friday was not filled, they will continue calling people on Monday morning.

As for why it's not filled, that could be many reasons. Men turn down jobs because they aren't optimal. Some people don't like wasting time on short calls, some men have too many hours and even a short call will send them to the back of the list. Some jobs are too far away. Some men just aren't near their phones.

I've talked to the referral agents, they can make 50 calls before finding someone willing to go out on a job.


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## Memphis2010 (May 25, 2010)

JLA said:


> Sure, usually the apprentice list is much shorter.
> 
> What that means is that there are 251 people out of work. The one job that came in on Friday was not filled, they will continue calling people on Monday morning.
> 
> ...



Ok that makes a lot of sense! Thanks so much for making it clear to me! I appreciate it!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Refusal of a short call is a lot like the guy who said "I make more money on unemployment". In my mind, refusal of a short call should count as a job turndown like the regular available for work list. This stuff's still gotta get done.


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Refusal of a short call is a lot like the guy who said "I make more money on unemployment". In my mind, refusal of a short call should count as a job turndown like the regular available for work list. This stuff's still gotta get done.


In my hall, refusal of a short call is counted as a turndown. There is no actualy short call list anymore, you can work up to 160 hours before going to the back of the list.

Some people already did a short call and have 160 hours logged. If they go out on another short call like a 1 or 2 week job, they are sent to the back of a 2 year waiting list.

It's a real bad situation.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

JLA said:


> In my hall, refusal of a short call is counted as a turndown. There is no actualy short call list anymore, you can work up to 160 hours before going to the back of the list.
> 
> Some people already did a short call and have 160 hours logged. If they go out on another short call like a 1 or 2 week job, they are sent to the back of a 2 year waiting list.
> 
> It's a real bad situation.


Does overtime count toward that 160? I think most halls are 80 hours, but overtime doesn't count toward that 80. That seems like a fair situation, otherwise guys would turn down the OT.


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Does overtime count toward that 160? I think most halls are 80 hours, but overtime doesn't count toward that 80. That seems like a fair situation, otherwise guys would turn down the OT.


No, overtime is not counted. 

We used to have a 120hour limit, but that was when there was a separate short call list. Now there is only one list so they made the short call time a little longer to try and help the guys out.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Refusal of a short call is a lot like the guy who said "I make more money on unemployment". In my mind, refusal of a short call should count as a job turndown like the regular available for work list. This stuff's still gotta get done.


 What local did you say you were out of? There is more than one side to this story.Short call within the IBEW have been abused for years. Are the contractor responsible to pay workmans comp and or unemployment for a temp(short call) worker? On another side of the coin if I travel for several hundred miles putting my name on many books with the thought of getting a call that will take care of my family for more than just a week or two, only to take a short call, well my ethics dictate to me to take my name off those other books that I have spent time money and effort getting on in the first place, because it is an out of work list. Short call roots come from dire emergency (hospital transformer blows and people may die) therefore the contractor needs jws now but will not need them once this said job is done. Once at fort Gordon Georgia an entire hospital was built on short calls.Augusta's short calls are 14 working days and on 4-10's schedule thats 3 and half weeks.The contractor had about 15 shop empolyee's and would hire about 20+ new jw's every 3 and half weeks for 2 years.In a dire case of a real emergency I have and will donate my time to help those in need.As far as the logic of being to lazy to work for a living(maybe in some cases ) but the $450 a week and no benefits does not come close to the $2000 a week and full benefits. It is refreshing to see a difference of opinion on this issue though, thank you for your post.


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, I don't particularly agree that refusing a short call has anything to do with someone being comfortable with unemployment. People usually just refuse a short call in order to get a long call the next day. At a time when most locals have long waiting lists, getting a short call is like drawing the short straw.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

JLA said:


> Some people already did a short call like a 1 or 2 week job, they are sent to the back of a 2 year waiting list.


2 Years??? THAT SUCKS, where are you from?


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

brian john said:


> 2 Years??? THAT SUCKS, where are you from?


New Jersey.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> What local did you say you were out of? There is more than one side to this story.Short call within the IBEW have been abused for years. Are the contractor responsible to pay workmans comp and or unemployment for a temp(short call) worker? On another side of the coin if I travel for several hundred miles putting my name on many books with the thought of getting a call that will take care of my family for more than just a week or two, only to take a short call, well my ethics dictate to me to take my name off those other books that I have spent time money and effort getting on in the first place, because it is an out of work list. Short call roots come from dire emergency (hospital transformer blows and people may die) therefore the contractor needs jws now but will not need them once this said job is done. Once at fort Gordon Georgia an entire hospital was built on short calls.Augusta's short calls are 14 working days and on 4-10's schedule thats 3 and half weeks.The contractor had about 15 shop empolyee's and would hire about 20+ new jw's every 3 and half weeks for 2 years.In a dire case of a real emergency I have and will donate my time to help those in need.As far as the logic of being to lazy to work for a living(maybe in some cases ) but the $450 a week and no benefits does not come close to the $2000 a week and full benefits. It is refreshing to see a difference of opinion on this issue though, thank you for your post.


Do you normally abuse drugs? If you don't you should.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

JLA said:


> New Jersey.


Have you tried traveling? Where in Jersey


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

brian john said:


> Have you tried traveling?


I'm not out of work.

The problem with traveling for someone from a high cost of living state like NJ, NY, Ca, etc. is that the money that comes back isn't enough for pension credits or benefits and the hourly rate isn't enough to cover the expense of traveling. For example, both the package and the envelope rate in Florida is about half of ours. When working out of territory we no longer go by hours, everything is translated back into dollar amounts. This means even if we worked a full year in Florida, we would only get half a pension credit and we wouldn't have enough each quarter for the health and welfare. Add to that the fact that you are now making half as much money in the envelope and you not only have to send that home for the family, but pay for your living expenses on the road as well.

So if there isn't any big overtime job going on somewhere else, many times it's just better to stay home and get a completely different job.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Memphis2010 said:


> I have been accepted to local 474. I passed my drug test and on Monday I need to go in and pay my union dues then they will put my name in a book. What I'm worried about is the work. If it is reliable or not.
> 
> How long (average) do you think I will be waiting for a job call? I believe I am ranked 1st on the list.
> 
> ...


How many apprentices ahead of you? That will go out first? I would not quit a job until you KNOW when you'll be working. Stay at your job and stay in the union program till you get a job.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Short calls don't change your position on the list in my local. You don't lose position by taking the short call.


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Short calls don't change your position on the list in my local. You don't lose position by taking the short call.


Unless you go over the set number of hours that designates a job a short call, correct?

In our local, you get 160 hours before going to the back of the list. That 160 hours is a total amount meaning if you go out on a short call for 4 weeks, you go back to your spot on the list. However, if you are sent to another job, even if it is only 1 day long, you will go to the back of the list since you passed the 160 hours. That is why guys who have their 160 hours (or close to it) will turn down a short call in hopes that the next one is a longer term job.


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## nomad (Jul 27, 2010)

Memphis, I'm curious as to why you are going off of the JW books and not talking to your Training Director as far as job list for apprentices (unless times have changed). You have 5 yrs before you have to worry about what the JW books are doing. Your TD is who places you with a job and when I went through the program apprentices weren't allowed to turn down jobs unless a valid reason and if you did or quit a job, you'd be in front of the apprenticeship committee.

Most of the time I don't see too many apprentices out of work especially a 1st year (cheap labor), unless of course the job market in the local area is struggling. Talk to your Training Director of your concerns because he is your POC and not the BA.


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## JLA (Jul 25, 2010)

nomad, the training director has nothing to do with sending apprentices out to work in my hall, the referral agents do it. They maintain the list for both JW's and apprentices.

Further, a contractor can request a specific year apprentice, but they can't demand it. It's up to the referral agents to decide what year apprentice to send out. With this system, all year apprentices work relatively equally. 

It all goes to show that each and every hall runs their business differently, the best place to get info is from your hall it's it's members who have been thru this before.


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## nomad (Jul 27, 2010)

JLA said:


> nomad, the training director has nothing to do with sending apprentices out to work in my hall, the referral agents do it. They maintain the list for both JW's and apprentices.
> 
> Further, a contractor can request a specific year apprentice, but they can't demand it. It's up to the referral agents to decide what year apprentice to send out. With this system, all year apprentices work relatively equally.
> 
> It all goes to show that each and every hall runs their business differently, the best place to get info is from your hall it's it's members who have been thru this before.


 
Interesting as for as apprentice referrals go in different locals because I've been through 3 locals (started out at 354,194, graduated from 76) as an apprentice (due to military PCSing...my wife's career) and each local the TD is who keeps the apprentice job's list and refers them out to work. As an apprentice, I never stepped foot in the hall unless going to a meeting or paying dues. I got all my job referrels from my TD. I guess some locals are different but it seems Memphis is looking at the JW books which the apprentice books are different in my experience.

You're right as far as the apprentices going out in order on the books, but it's rare to see 1st and 2nd year apprentices out of work unless the local job market is hurting as a whole. From what I've seen, contractors prefer the 'cheap' labor.

Oh well, this is a tough job market for JWs and apprentices. I wish Memphis luck.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Do you normally abuse drugs? If you don't you should.


 No I do not drink,smoke or do drugs or date guys, but I am curious to your concern, sounds like you have an over zealous interest in my habits.
Brian if you read a post and do not understand it, thats okay it does not mean the person who wrote it is on drugs nor does it mean that your an idiot, it only means that some one has a closed mind to what is white or wrong and only they have the combination to the depths of the brain. I wish you well with all you do in life, remember every day top side dirt is a marvel.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> No I do not drink,smoke or do drugs or date guys, but I am curious to your concern, sounds like you have an over zealous interest in my habits.
> Brian if you read a post and do not understand it, thats okay it does not mean the person who wrote it is on drugs nor does it mean that your an idiot, it only means that some one has a closed mind to what is white or wrong and only they have the combination to the depths of the brain. I wish you well with all you do in life, remember every day top side dirt is a marvel.


WHITE or wrong. :001_huh:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> WHITE or wrong. :001_huh:


 It is a pun, or play on words.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> No I do not drink,smoke or do drugs or date guys, but I am curious to your concern, sounds like you have an over zealous interest in my habits.


I understand your post, it is just that they often come across like the ramblings of a crack addict.


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## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> It is a pun, or play on words.


...or racism.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> I understand your post, it is just that they often come across like the ramblings of a crack addict.


 I admit to rambling but I am no racist as one of my neighbors questioned (nildogg) I suspect this interest you very little as to what your intent was a bit more malice. We do not have to like all on this board to post and or read post Brian, but once again I wish you well in solving your problems.


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## Wandering Idiot (Jul 20, 2010)

Enough of the sidetracking and back to topic. I just took my test last week for local 474. Memphis, our test administrator mentioned that once class starts, most everyone this year will be picked up by a specific company (I will PM you). I'm almost positive I passed my test, so I just have the wait a week and change now for my interview date to come in the mail. 

I was just looking over local 474's site and there's now 265 people on book one. Of course, I have little to no understanding of how this whole book process works, and if I'm reading right, it won't make a difference for me anyhow because I'll be going in first year, and the training director will more or less assign me to a company (as long as they don't find a problem with me and have room/work). Do I have the gist of this right? Being on 'book' doesn't really matter until you're journeyman?


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

Wandering Idiot said:


> Enough of the sidetracking and back to topic. I just took my test last week for local 474. Memphis, our test administrator mentioned that once class starts, most everyone this year will be picked up by a specific company (I will PM you). I'm almost positive I passed my test, so I just have the wait a week and change now for my interview date to come in the mail.
> 
> I was just looking over local 474's site and there's now 265 people on book one. Of course, I have little to no understanding of how this whole book process works, and if I'm reading right, it won't make a difference for me anyhow because I'll be going in first year, and the training director will more or less assign me to a company (as long as they don't find a problem with me and have room/work). Do I have the gist of this right? Being on 'book' doesn't really matter until you're journeyman?


 
Yes, you have it right, however, some locals are hurting so bad with unemployment that they have a book for their apprentices. Those locals are most likely not even starting/picking up any one at this time. It sounds if your local may have a large job coming up that they will be able to use a large number of apprentices. Good luck to you both.


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## dplayboi (Feb 12, 2010)

At Memphis, just stick to it. I was out of work for 2months the most and now i'm working again as a 4th year apprentice. Alot of work is coming out of New Orleans for the next 10yrs...Charity and VA Hospital and 2 Nuclear Reactors from the ground up should break ground by next year. Stay for your company for at least 6months to collect unemployment for a good 3months and you will be working in no time. Dont go rat


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

dplayboi said:


> At Memphis, just stick to it. I was out of work for 2months the most and now i'm working again as a 4th year apprentice. Alot of work is coming out of New Orleans for the next 10yrs...Charity and VA Hospital and 2 Nuclear Reactors from the ground up should break ground by next year. Stay for your company for at least 6months to collect unemployment for a good 3months and you will be working in no time. *Dont go rat*


Don't be a hater. Just be a dumb ass:laughing:


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## Wandering Idiot (Jul 20, 2010)

That's all good to hear. From what I gather, there's going to be a very sizable class for us at 474 this year. When I tested last week, there were 20-24 people there, so figure 12-16 actually pass and make it to interview. Along with Memphis2010's group, and I'm sure there were a few more test dates this summer. We'll probably have at least 40-50 people in first year classes. 

I'm just tired of floating. I was laid off last winter from a niche field with no union representation (blasting seismology) and have been floating off unemployment since, with exception to a temp position stocking shelves. If worse comes to worse, I'd go back to the Army, but that's not a favorable option, at least in the eyes of the wife.

Thanks guys, it's a relief to hear all this, amidst all the frustration.


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## Memphis2010 (May 25, 2010)

Thank you everyone for all the good information and feedback! I appreciate it!! I, apparently, was looking at the wrong book. Apprentices get worked based off of a different system!

and...


I got my job placement today!!!! yesss!! The lady called and said to come in and fill out some paper work. Good news is that it's at the airport where I currently work weekends so I already have the badge that's necessary to work there!

How about that!!?


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## Wandering Idiot (Jul 20, 2010)

Good stuff, congrats. I received my test pass letter and interview date letter last saturday. The interview is in about 6 hours, so I'm just passing time until I need to get ready. 

Hopefully 474 has room for one more. I'm sick of unemployment and the memphis job market sucks.


dplayboi, where'd you hear about the nuke facility and hospital projects? I tried digging up info on them and haven't found a lick.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I have to ask, why does Bob make you feel so inferior that you must hide behind a made up screen name??

Life under that bridge must be pretty tough for you in this bad economy :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob's Badger said:


> No idea what you mean? please explain


 
:sleep1::sleep1:.......


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> :sleep1::sleep1:.......



I think he's too stupid to understand a simple question.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I think he's too stupid to understand a simple question.


He is gone already.. that little red button works great.. :thumbup:


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## zappedjack21 (Aug 16, 2010)

JLA said:


> In my hall, refusal of a short call is counted as a turndown. There is no actualy short call list anymore, you can work up to 160 hours before going to the back of the list.
> 
> Some people already did a short call and have 160 hours logged. If they go out on another short call like a 1 or 2 week job, they are sent to the back of a 2 year waiting list.
> 
> It's a real bad situation.


 
Thats why Union Sucks stay Non Union make less money with all benies but have all steady work and side work if you have them. Union you just deal with a bunch of headaches and waiting for a damn phone call.


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