# OSHA fines USPS $272,000 for lack of arc flash training



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

It's okay, they'll just raise the price of stamps, again.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Zog said:


> The U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration has cited the U.S. Postal Service for workplace safety violations related to electrical hazards found at the Capitol Heights Processing and Distribution Center. Proposed penalties total $272,000.
> "These citations and sizable fines reflect the Postal Service's failure to equip its workers with the necessary knowledge and skills to safely work with live electrical parts," said Assistant Secretary of Labor for OSHA Dr. David Michaels. "The Postal Service knew that proper and effective training was needed for the safety of its workers but did not provide it."
> 
> For those who think they don't need 70E training, think again.
> ...


Zog, are you looking for work? Possibly as a trainer?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Ain't that great, the govt fining the govt.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

1. That story has to be a fabrication, I have never seen a postal electrican do a anything that resembles work.

2. We the tax payer are paying for the non working electricians and get slapped with a fine on top of that.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Our state was trying to fine the post office for not getting emission inspections on the mail trucks. I cant remember the fine but it was very high.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> It's okay, they'll just raise the price of stamps, again.



Why don't they just put some glue on the back of one-dollar bills and call it good for a couple more years? :001_huh:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Zog, are you looking for work? Possibly as a trainer?


No way, did that for 15 years and have retired from training, forever I hope.


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## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

Zog said:


> For those who think they don't need 70E training, think again.


So what are you saying, that every EC needs to give it's men 70E training or they are liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

BlueBox said:


> So what are you saying, that every EC needs to give it's men 70E training or they are liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines?


I think Zog just means that if you do that type of work often enough, get the training.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> Ain't that great, the govt fining the govt.


Holy moley! Emergency! One of my favorite shows from the 70's.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> So what are you saying, that every EC needs to give it's men 70E training or they are liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines?


Yes I am, and that is nothing new. the OSHA training requirements are very similar and have been around since 1981, this is nothing new. I get notifications of these fines everyday and see them quite often for electrical contractors. This should not be a suprise to you.


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> I think Zog just means that if you do that type of work often enough, get the training.


...so if you do that type of work infrequently, the proper training is not required? :blink:


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## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

voltz said:


> ...so if you do that type of work infrequently, the proper training is not required? :blink:


Where is the threshold? If there is a fine involved there has to be a specific frequency of work to determine whether you are breaking the law or not.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

USPS nailed again, this time for $420,000

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=18090


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

How does this work? I have been through the 70e classes but there is no certification that I know of. 
So what I am getting at is if Joe from Joe's Electric sits his guys down and says "Don't work hot or it'll blow up." are they now trained?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Another one today, $357,000. Those stampos are going to get expensive. 

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=18129


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> How does this work? I have been through the 70e classes but there is no certification that I know of.
> So what I am getting at is if Joe from Joe's Electric sits his guys down and says "Don't work hot or it'll blow up." are they now trained?


According to the NFPA 70E, a “Qualified Person" is one who is trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of the equipment or the specific work method, and be trained to recognize the hazards present with respect to that equipment or work method.

Such persons shall also be familiar with the use of the precautionary techniques, personal protective equipment, insulating and shielding materials, and insulated tools and test equipment. A person can be considered qualified with respect to certain tasks but still be unqualified for others.

An employee that is undergoing on the job training and who, in the course of such training, has demonstrated the ability to perform duties safely at his or her level of training and who is under the direct supervision of a qualified person shall be considered to be a qualified person for the performance of those duties. 

In addition, to be permitted to work within the limited approach of exposed energized conductors and circuit parts the person shall be trained in all of the following:
Qualified employees shall be trained and competent in: 

The skills and techniques necessary to distinguish exposed live parts from other parts of electric equipment
The skills and techniques necessary to determine the nominal voltage of exposed live parts
The minimum approach distances specified in this section corresponding to the voltages to which the qualified employee will be exposed, and,
The decision making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning necessary to perform the task safely
A few notes to add to the 70E definition. 

Only the employer can deem an employee qualified after they have had the proper training and have demonstrated profinency using the skills and method learned.
There is no such thing as NFPA 70E certification, going to a training course does not make an employee qualified.
The most misunderstood part of the "qualified" term is that it is all emcompassing, you are "qualified" to work on a specific type or piece of equipment.
Neither a J-card, a masters license, or an engineering degree make you a "qualified person"
The word "electrician" is not anywhere in the definition of a "qualified person" meaning these rules apply to all employees and you dont have to be an electrician to be "qualified"


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## postahl (Aug 25, 2010)

the taxpayers do not pay for the post office it`s only revenue is from stamps and other mailing services it is the only so called government agency that is self supporting as said no tax money and yes these fines are correct i have a few friends who work on there eqipment there ppe are dewalt safety glasses and ironclad gloves and a flash jacket for ppe


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## NJPostman (Sep 9, 2010)

*OSHA, Arc Flash, Catagory 5 work*

Hey Folks,

I found this sight while searching for clarification of the new OSHA (?) requirements being put upon maintenance technicians at mail processing facilities.

The recent wave of training we all got broke down electrical work into 5 catagories which ranged from 0-50v to 600v and above. Anything over 480v, is expressly forbidden for us to work on. So the question is: Do the requirements refer strictly to line voltages or do they consider a 480volt fed variable frequency, or DC motor drive which puts out in excess of 480 volts at full speed to be prohibited work?

Specific example: An employee is performing the setup and calibration procedure on a servo motor controller, and the procedure requires a variety of parameter inputs while the device is powered up and the motor to be in motion, at times up to full speed. These inverters are said to operate at over 600 volts. The controller is finger safe; there are no exposed parts, but set up requires the tech to be in close proximity to the device and the device outputs could at times exceed 600volts.

The issue here is really that disgruntled postal workers (imagine that) are refusing to work on this equipment citing the catagory 5 prohibition, and are leaning heavily upon the younger workers who are willing to work on these devices. 

Thanks to everyone for reading this and for whatever knowledge and experience you might all share.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

NJPostman said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> I found this sight while searching for clarification of the new OSHA (?) requirements being put upon maintenance technicians at mail processing facilities.
> 
> ...


The "catagories" you are talking about do nto exist in OSHA, or the NFPA 70E, they must be a USPS generated classification. Basing the hazard level on voltage in a gross misconception of determining electrical hazards. In fact, for arc flash, almost all of the time a 480V system will have much larger Ei's than a 5kV or 15kV system. 

I can see why all of these fines are adding up, I was updating this thread on evey OSHA violation for the USPS for a while but got a couple new ones every week and got tired of posting each one. I seems there is a serious issue at the top of your safety chain of command. 

I am interested in what they are teaching thier employees, ask lots of questions, I will answer all the best I can.


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## NJPostman (Sep 9, 2010)

*Poatal Regulations*

You're right; I'm sure the PO is just covering their behinds with this stuff. Even so, it still irks me that younger guys who want to work are being harrassed by "postalized" morons who are afraid to get their hands dirty.

They've issued the men these obcene looking duffle bags with fire suits, insulated tools, special Fluke meters, and rubber gloves. These get-ups to be worn whenever they're working in a live 480 panel. Most of the time, all they're doing is resetting faults in smart motor controllers, or tracing problems on low voltage sensor circuits.


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## NJPostman (Sep 9, 2010)

*Just Curious*

_In fact, for arc flash, almost all of the time a 480V system will have much larger Ei's than a 5kV or 15kV system. 
_
Could you elaborate on this?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

NJPostman said:


> _In fact, for arc flash, almost all of the time a 480V system will have much larger Ei's than a 5kV or 15kV system. _
> 
> Could you elaborate on this?


The incident energy of a system depends on the available fault current and the clearing time of the overcurrent protective device protection that part of the system. In MV systems you typically see much lower fault currents than you do in a LV system. Plus in a MV system you will usually see more advanced relay systems, many LV systems have very basic protection. 

Perhaps the most common high arc flash hazard is a 480V switchgear lineup fed froma MV transformer that is fused on the MV (Primary side). You will have a high fault current on the seconday (LV) side of that transformer. Typically the main breaker in a 480V substation will not have an INST trip (Due to coordination issues) and will only employ a GF, ST< and LT trip. So if a fault occurs in that switchgear you have a built in time delay (1/2 second or so) coupled with a high fault current (30kA-120kA) which means a ton of heat energy being produced. 

Another thread going on in this section is similar, they have 180cal.cm2 arc flash hazard, PPE is only good up to 40 cal/cm2, a 2nd degree burn on your skin occurs at 1.2cal/cm2. Just to put that in perspective.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

NJPostman said:


> You're right; I'm sure the PO is just covering their behinds with this stuff. Even so, it still irks me that younger guys who want to work are being harrassed by "postalized" morons who are afraid to get their hands dirty.
> 
> They've issued the men these obcene looking duffle bags with fire suits, insulated tools, special Fluke meters, and rubber gloves. These get-ups to be worn whenever they're working in a live 480 panel. Most of the time, all they're doing is resetting faults in smart motor controllers, or tracing problems on low voltage sensor circuits.


It is obvious the training the USPS has privided is FUBAR, which explains the excess of $1M in fines OSHA has hit them with the last couple months for violations of the electrical standards, OSHA will enforce the requirements in the 70E. 

Most people think of the NFPA 70E as some sort of guide to working on energized equipment when actually it is just the opposite. There are very rare occasions when energized work is permitted. 

NFPA 70E Article 130.1 *Justification for work. *Live parts to which an employee might be exposed shall be put into an electrically safe work condition before an employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. 

Energized parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground are not required to be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.

NOTE 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include, but are not limited to, interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment 

NOTE 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near exposed energized electrical conductors or circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include performing diagnostics and testing (e.g., start-up or troubleshooting) of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous process that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment. 

*(Zog's note:* If you dont know what "Infeasible" means, look it up; it means "incapable of being done". Dont confuse feasible with convenient.)


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## NJPostman (Sep 9, 2010)

*Energized Work*

Thank you for all the time you're putting into this.....

The majority of "energized work" is performed in motor control panels where a dozen or so smart motor controllers and their assocaied circuit breakers, PLCs, and whatnot reside. It's certainly not _infeasable _but it's plenty _inconvenient _to shut these panels down as this would disrupt production; _we can't have that...._ moreover, it seems so unnecessary. The panels are finger safe, and all the tech usually does is clear the fault using the keypad and then he'll manually push in the relay to preset the belt. He shouldn't be anywhere near any live parts; nothing he could bump into or drop a screwdriver across. This new wave of training and safety has been all about arc flash, not about any electrocution or fire hazards.

What does NFPA 70E Article 130.1 say about troubleshooting? Most of the time, we need power on to find that faulty relay, or loose wire....


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## postahl (Aug 25, 2010)

i know the p.o. has a lot of issues with this training they just won`t admit they are wrong i have received my postal 70 e training from someone who has never worked in the maintenance field when i asked about the 50 volt rule and rubber gloves from arcticle 130 he said the gloves from iron clad where ok to use


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Zog said:


> *(Zog's note:* If you dont know what "Infeasible" means, look it up; it means "incapable of being done". Dont confuse feasible with convenient.)


That is a huge and important point.

Also consider if something happens and you have to explain your decisions during a deposition or testimony how would it really sound?

Would it sound like you made the correct decisions or would it sound like you where just taking short cuts?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

postahl said:


> i know the p.o. has a lot of issues with this training they just won`t admit they are wrong i have received my postal 70 e training from someone who has never worked in the maintenance field when i asked about the 50 volt rule and rubber gloves from arcticle 130 he said the gloves from iron clad where ok to use


Yikes! I know some good 70E training companies in your area that can deveop a special program to fit your needs. PM me if you want some contact info, I used to do this training in Michigan.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> That is a huge and important point.
> 
> Also consider if something happens and you have to explain your decisions during a deposition or testimony how would it really sound?
> 
> Would it sound like you made the correct decisions or would it sound like you where just taking short cuts?


Exactly, I have been involved in some of these cases. The look on the defendants face when asked why they did not just trun off power is always priceless. Actually, there usually is a "price".

This is the way I used to put it to safety managers in my 70E compliance training for industrial facilities. If you think the judge will agree with your reason for not sutting it off, then proceed with an EEWP. If not, turn it off. 

I am very involved in the nuclear world these days, shutting off power to a cooling pump that is needed for a safe shut down of the reactor is "infeasable". :thumbsup:. Not shutting off power because the mall is open for business is not. :no:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

NJPostman said:


> What does NFPA 70E Article 130.1 say about troubleshooting? Most of the time, we need power on to find that faulty relay, or loose wire....


T/S is the excepting to the rule, because you can't take voltage measurements without voltage.

T/S is also an excepting to the EEWP requirements. But you still need to wear the proper PPE for both shock and arc flash protection. 

Not so sure about the "loose wire" though.


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