# Main Panel in Bathroom



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

I've been asked to quote a new main panel for a commercial building, it is an accounting office. Welllllllllll - the main panel is in a bathroom. It has only a toilet and sink, no shower. 

In my area there is no licensing, permits, inspections, etc. They do require a permit and inspection for NEW construction in the city limits. As a practical matter it does not bother me to put a new one in the same location since there is not a shower.

The panel is mounted on a block wall and has (4) 1 1/2 -2" rigid conduits entering the top. It would be a real bear to relocate it. I can mount it on the opposite wall and use the old panel as a J box. This would require running a few short conduits between the two. The wall is a block wall. Also, the opposite wall has 2x furring strips with paneling over them, So there would be some carpentry involved.

Sometimes, I hate these jobs, because of these dilemas. But it is better than not working at all.

What would YOU do. Opinions would be appreciated.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

What's the dilema?


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## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

The NEC definition of a bathroom is an area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub, or a shower. Check Article 230.70(A)(2) and make a decision.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I would tell them it has to be moved. I have faced this several times myself.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Put a main disconnect elsewhere upstream, and turn the panel into a subpanel. Separate and isolate the neutrals & grounds when you install the new tub & guts and call it a day.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> What's the dilema?


 

The dilema is that it is against code. However, as a practical matter, I do not have a problem doing it because there is no tub or shower. The existing panel is a Federal Pacific stab lock. Which is the only reason for quoting a replacement.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Put a main disconnect elsewhere upstream, and turn the panel into a subpanel. Separate and isolate the neutrals & grounds when you install the new tub & guts and call it a day.


 
I'm gonig to start digging in my code book. Is a subpanel legal in a batroom? I think that is what you are telling me?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> I'm gonig to start digging in my code book. Is a subpanel legal in a batroom? I think that is what you are telling me?



If the service disconnect is elsewhere, 230.70(A)(2) won't apply. Then a subpanel is legal in the bathroom.


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> I'm gonig to start digging in my code book. Is a subpanel legal in a batroom? I think that is what you are telling me?


Yes. You just can't have the main service disconnect in a restroom(other than dwelling). Every Walmart around here has the distribution panels in the men's room. The service disconnects are elsewhere. I've done churches like this as well. The architect puts them there because if you put them in a mechanical/storage room in a church they will soon become burried with chairs, tables and Christmas decorations and be inaccessible. Nobody piles junk in the restrooms.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

amptech said:


> .......The architect puts them there because if you put them in a mechanical/storage room in a church they will soon become burried with chairs, tables and Christmas decorations and be inaccessible. ........



It's not just churches! Restaurants and hotels are far far worse.


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

230.70(A)(2)." Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms."

240.24(E)*Not Located in Bathrooms.* "In dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, overcurrent devices, other than supplementary overcurrent protection, shall not be located in bathrooms."

So I understand these articles to say that you can't put the main in a bathroom anywhere but you can put a sub panel in a bathroom unless it is in a dwelling, hotel or motel.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

amptech said:


> 230.70(A)(2)." Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms."
> 
> 240.24(E)*Not Located in Bathrooms.* "In dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, overcurrent devices, other than supplementary overcurrent protection, shall not be located in bathrooms."
> 
> So I understand these articles to say that you can't put the main in a bathroom anywhere but you can put a sub panel in a bathroom unless it is in a dwelling, hotel or motel.










​


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

480sparky said:


> It's not just churches! Restaurants and hotels are far far worse.


All your picture lacks is a couple of 5 gallon buckets of old deep fryer grease and the gas cans for the weedeater.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If the service disconnect is elsewhere, 230.70(A)(2) won't apply. Then a subpanel is legal in the bathroom.


 
480, you're a genius! There is my out! Thanks!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

amptech said:


> All your picture lacks is a couple of 5 gallon buckets of old deep fryer grease and the gas cans for the weedeater.



I'm surprised there aren't mops & brooms hanging from the unistrut.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> 480, you're a genius! .......



Dammit. I was getting used to being a tool.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> It's not just churches! Restaurants and hotels are far far worse.


Now John Valdes can't view the thread.


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## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Now John Valdes can't view the thread.


 :laughing::laughing::thumbup:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. To kill!


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

amptech said:


> Yes. You just can't have the main service disconnect in a restroom(other than dwelling). Every Walmart around here has the distribution panels in the men's room. The service disconnects are elsewhere. I've done churches like this as well. The architect puts them there because if you put them in a mechanical/storage room in a church they will soon become burried with chairs, tables and Christmas decorations and be inaccessible. Nobody piles junk in the restrooms.


Amptech.,

Speaking of Walmart stores in Wisconsin they DO not allow distribution panels in the bathrooms at all this part is stated for new construction code I know it don't mention much in Comm 16 { Wisconsin Electrical code } but Building code yeah if I recall it they do not allow it but older place they will let it go due it is grandfather clause but once you upgrade or replace panels they will ask ya to move it somewhere else.

Merci.
Marc


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Amptech.,
> 
> Speaking of Walmart stores in Wisconsin they DO not allow distribution panels in the bathrooms at all this part is stated for new construction code I know it don't mention much in Comm 16 { Wisconsin Electrical code } but Building code yeah if I recall it they do not allow it but older place they will let it go due it is grandfather clause but once you upgrade or replace panels they will ask ya to move it somewhere else.
> 
> ...


I wonder what their reasoning is for over-ruling the NEC?


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. To kill!


I like my rats shaken, not stirred!:thumbup:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

amptech said:


> I wonder what their reasoning is for over-ruling the NEC?


If I remember right it was related to Fire marshal request plus building inspector requirement.{ I will have to dig up my notepad to confirm this one }

Plus what more the panels I dealt with Walmart majorty of them are wired for 480Y277 then they have secondary distubation voltage aka 208Y120 and they are located in one area. beside the Bakery dept will have it own distubation centre there. and that it 

Merci.
Marc


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