# Customer wants tombstones replaced



## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

Gave a price to change out 11 bad T12 mag ballasts, 4 bulb 4 ' fixtures, 2 ballasts ea. He then, (through the office manager) said he wants a price on replacing tombstones... I don't really see a point in this unless they are broken ( and the ones I looked at weren't). Since he is wanting to do this, would you just try to sell him on a whole T8 or T5 fixture upgrade? I figure pricing will not be much higher after figuring labor on ballasts and tombstones of 20 yr old fixtures. 

Any of you lighting gurus care to share some talking points on selling the upgrade? Thanks


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I might try to up sell a retro fit kit



http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...near_lighting/retrofit/_135276.resources.html


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I would sell it exactly that way, for the cost of labor to refurbish an old fixture, you can have a brand new one for marginal extra cost. 

Regarding the tombstones, if they have been up there for any length of time, they get very brittle and break apart very frequently during relamping. I think replacing the whole light is a good idea.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I might try to up sell a retro fit kit
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...near_lighting/retrofit/_135276.resources.html


Cool, I imagine those only work in existing Cooper fixtures though?


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## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I might try to up sell a retro fit kit
> 
> http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/lighting/products/recessed_linear_lighting/retrofit/_135276.resources.html


Those are slick. I will check them out. 

Is there a relatively standard efficiency advantage percentage I could throw at him. T8 vs T12 Feel free to tell me to quit being lazy and search old threads  or not.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Cool, I imagine those only work in existing Cooper fixtures though?


No, if you find the data sheet it gives you the required dimensions for it to fit.

You can get just the sockets, holders and reflector.

Or ballast, sockets, holders and reflector.

Or new lens, ballast, sockets, holders and reflector.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Prices anywhere?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

What's a "tombstone"?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Little-Lectric said:


> What's a "tombstone"?


Trade slang for fluorescent lampholder. 

Although we still have to leave the field open so 480sparky can post a picture of Tombstone pizza.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Trade slang for fluorescent lampholder.
> 
> Although we still have to leave the field open so 480sparky can post a picture of Tombstone pizza.


Kinda what I thought after thinking about what the sockets look like.
Yeah, waiting for the pizza pic.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Honestly said:


> Gave a price to change out 11 bad T12 mag ballasts, 4 bulb 4 ' fixtures, 2 ballasts ea. He then, (through the office manager) said he wants a price on replacing tombstones... I don't really see a point in this unless they are broken ( and the ones I looked at weren't). Since he is wanting to do this, would you just try to sell him on a whole T8 or T5 fixture upgrade? I figure pricing will not be much higher after figuring labor on ballasts and tombstones of 20 yr old fixtures.
> 
> Any of you lighting gurus care to share some talking points on selling the upgrade? Thanks


If you are replacing the ballasts and the sockets, they are equivalent to new fixtures.


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## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

New, but not an upgrade. T12 to T8 is what I was going to pitch.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Little-Lectric said:


> Kinda what I thought after thinking about what the sockets look like.
> Yeah, waiting for the pizza pic.


I will try to beat 480's game at the moment.










Affamé quelqu'un ?

(Hungry anyone ??)

Merci,
Marc


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I replace tombstones a lot, part of the package, and most fixtures, if you're pulling out the old T12 ballasts, you have to splice, so sometimes it's just as fast popping in new tombstones.

I think a whole new fixture is $50. A T8 ballast is $15. 8 tombstones is like $4.

If I were given a choice between replacing a fixture and ripping the guts out and putting new guts in, I'd put new guts in. It's not as wasteful, it doesn't fill up your garbage bin or your van, and it's the same result.

I think putting in a whole new fixture is probably more time-consuming.

Don't forget to wipe the lenses!


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I was just reading, you want to replace T12 magnetic with T12 magnetic ballasts?

They don't even make em anymore do they?

I've measured the amp draw between 4 T12 bulbs and 4 T8 bulbs, magnetic T12 ballasts (2) and 1 electronic ballast. Going down to T8s saved 60 watts per fixture. 60 watts for 4 bulbs.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

If someone want's their Tombstone replaced I tell em "I'm your huckleberry".


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

You've got to change the entire area to T8, or spot replace failed ballasts with T12 electronic. If you mix the two, they will get mis-lamped. There's not much you can do to keep T12s out of T8 fixtures and vice versa other than a marking somewhere on the fixture and instructing the end user, but this is completely dependent on end user complying with instructions years down the road as interlocking is not possible.

If you're going to switch over to T8 instant start, you'll have to jumper each socket.
If you use new sockets, you can use pre-jumpered sockets.

Lenses are expensive. If they're yellowed, push for full room or more T8 retrofit. 

Given a comparable cost, its better to operate lamps at lower power in a newer, higher utilization coefficient fixture than it is to run lamps at full power in an existing, degraded fixtures with lower utilization coefficient to begin with. 

0.87 BF T8 is approximately comparable to F40T12/34W. If you use a fixture with better light utilization, then 0.77 system can be used to maintain same illumination and reduced power consumption.


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