# Two inch conduit from basement to attic?



## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

This is a Fire Code Question. In Ontario, PVC piping of any type should not be installed in insulated walls/ceilings/etc


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Blockisle9 said:


> Back in the 80s I use to run 2- 2 inch pvc conduits from the basement to the attic for future use.
> Is this allowed today if I seal the ends with fire stop?


If it's 2x4 framing or if it's a shear wall framed 2x6 you might not be allowed to bore 2.5" holes in the plates without reinforcing plates or something like that. 

You might not have to seal the ends with fire stop, but you will have to seal between the outside of the pipe and the holes in the plates.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I use vac pipe and wrap the end sticking up through the attic with Tuck Tape. It saved my ass one time when I missed a home run.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

PokeySmokey said:


> This is a Fire Code Question. In Ontario, PVC piping of any type should not be installed in insulated walls/ceilings/etc


What about central vac? Never mind, you said insulated. Plastic pipe usually goes in partition walls.


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

I use coreline. Its great cause you just bend it as you need. And its rated to be enclosed in insulation.


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## Blockisle9 (Oct 31, 2020)

Thanks everyone


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

mofos be cray said:


> I use coreline. Its great cause you just bend it as you need. And its rated to be enclosed in insulation.


Only issue with corline is how easy it is to make 1000° of bends without really noticing while snaking it thru framing... ask me how I know  

I do agree though, corline is the best for this.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Two questions.
1 What is corline? Is it like what we call inner duct?
2. Why can't you use PVC in an insulated wall? Plumbers do it. I have done it. Is it a Canadian thing?


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

kb1jb1 said:


> Two questions.
> 1 What is corline? Is it like what we call inner duct?
> 2. Why can't you use PVC in an insulated wall? Plumbers do it. I have done it. Is it a Canadian thing?


1. ENT
2. Must be as I see PVC in walls here all the time. (unless it is a fire rated wall).


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

kb1jb1 said:


> Two questions.
> 1 What is corline? Is it like what we call inner duct?
> 2. Why can't you use PVC in an insulated wall? Plumbers do it. I have done it. Is it a Canadian thing?


I think it has to do with overheating and the pvc getting soft.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

kb1jb1 said:


> Two questions.
> 1 What is corline? Is it like what we call inner duct?
> 2. Why can't you use PVC in an insulated wall? Plumbers do it. I have done it. Is it a Canadian thing?


Corline is a brand of ENT.

Why can't we use PVC in an insulated wall? Good question, I've been wondering the same thing. Unfortunately the only answer I have for you is because our code says rigid PVC cannot be installed in a thermally insulated wall. There are obviously exceptions to this, such as passing thru a wall from outside to inside.

ENT is cheaper anyway.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Rule says “where enclosed in thermal insulation”. Strap it to a stud and it isn’t enclosed. In this case, it isn’t a raceway anyway, it’s a chase. Rule doesn’t apply.


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

99cents said:


> Rule says “where enclosed in thermal insulation”. Strap it to a stud and it isn’t enclosed. In this case, it isn’t a raceway anyway, it’s a chase. Rule doesn’t apply.


Good argument, has an inspector sided with you o that? I might try it with my guys here. It should would be nice on occasion.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Ontario Canada bulletin 12-29-4 allows PVC in insulation.

2) Rigid PVC in thermal insulation
Background
The way Rule 12-1102 is written would not permit PVC conduit to be installed when enclosed with thermal insulation. Historically, when this rule first appeared in the code, PVC had different properties. There are other PVC conduits and tubing that do not have this restriction, such as DB2 and ENT.

Direction
Notwithstanding Rule 12-1102, ESA will permit rigid PVC conduits to be used in locations enclosed in thermal insulation. Rule 12-1104 would handle the issue of installing PVC conduit when enclosed with thermal insulation intended for use with wires and cables with a maximum operating temperature of 75 °C.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

mofos be cray said:


> Good argument, has an inspector sided with you o that? I might try it with my guys here. It should would be nice on occasion.


I ran PVC conduit through an uninsulated garage attic and the inspector tagged it saying it could be insulated in the future. He passed it after a ran a 2 X 4 beside it. 

It’s a dumb rule anyway. PVC conduit will get softer in the sun on our one day of summer than it will be enclosed in insulation. It’s probably better in insulation because the temperature is more constant with less expansion and contraction.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I would think it was based on some idea that PVC holds heat and in an insulated wall, it wouldn't dissipate heat, throwing off the derating rules for number of current carrying conductors.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I read this about PVC. "Polystyrene insulation, commonly used as either loose fill or in board form, causes the plasticiser used in the PVC to migrate, " Although they were talking about cable rather than conduit it make me wonder. Found the info here 
I would love to know the real reason for this rule but perhaps Splatz is correct in his thinking. I avoid PVC indoors because it can off gas in a fire. Probably does not apply to residential work ?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Easy said:


> I read this about PVC. "Polystyrene insulation, commonly used as either loose fill or in board form, causes the plasticiser used in the PVC to migrate, " Although they were talking about cable rather than conduit it make me wonder. Found the info here
> I would love to know the real reason for this rule but perhaps Splatz is correct in his thinking. I avoid PVC indoors because it can off gas in a fire. Probably does not apply to residential work ?


In a house with vinyl flooring, polyester furniture and IKEA cabinets made of glue and filler. How does a stick of PVC conduit even matter?


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

99cents said:


> In a house with vinyl flooring, polyester furniture and IKEA cabinets made of glue and filler. How does a stick of PVC conduit even matter?


Good point...


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Haven't wired a house in many moons, but when I did, I would drill some extra holes lined up vertically in the stud space, and to one side of the insulation. Then put in a few pull strings, tied off to a staple. top and bottom. Fire-stop the holes as required, and that would cover you for any unforeseen circuit additions. String is cheap and easier to install than a conduit.

Never needed to use one, but they are there for the next guy, when needed.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

mofos be cray said:


> I use coreline. Its great cause you just bend it as you need. And its rated to be enclosed in insulation.


Great idea.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

mofos be cray said:


> I think it has to do with overheating and the pvc getting soft.


If the PVC overheats and starts to get soft, then you have a bigger problem with something else going on. I know it burns over 600 degrees F. What is the temperature where it starts to bend? 250 F. +/- ??? I would think steel conduit would be worse.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

99cents said:


> In a house with vinyl flooring, polyester furniture and IKEA cabinets made of glue and filler. How does a stick of PVC conduit even matter?


The plumbing pipe for the DWV is all PVC here. Is it the same in Canada? Plus they are using PEX pipe instaed of copper.


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

kb1jb1 said:


> If the PVC overheats and starts to get soft, then you have a bigger problem with something else going on. I know it burns over 600 degrees F. What is the temperature where it starts to bend? 250 F. +/- ??? I would think steel conduit would be worse.


Well considering that i can bend it pretty easy with a heat gun idk, might be less than 250. Also it does dance around if in the hot sun.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

mofos be cray said:


> Well considering that i can bend it pretty easy with a heat gun idk, might be less than 250. Also it does dance around if in the hot sun.


It's around 250 degrees Fahrenheit. It's above the boiling point of water.

The actual number from IPEX is 260 degrees... "The necessary temperature for bending Scepter Rigid PVC pipe is 260°F. "
Source:
Page 5 (PDF Page 11)


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I know in summer time when it hits 120* a stick of 1/2 PVC stubbed up through concrete not terminating in a box will be able to bend at the point where it is in contact with the concrete fairly easy. I have seen it more than once


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