# Union vs Non-Union



## vangundyj (Feb 25, 2019)

I just recently took my aptitude test on 02/22 at IBEW Local 14 in La Crosse and also met with a company out of Mauston WI that same day to discuss a non-union opportunity. The non-union opportunity seemed pretty decent and the union route is always a damn waiting game when trying to get started. I'm wondering what some good advise would be as far as what I should take advantage of? I know I probably won't have my panel interview until the end of March but could very well be offered a job with this company out of Mauston. When I sat down and met with the owner of the company he told me that he hasn't laid anyone off in the last 20 years he's owned the company but I don't know him from Adam and can only take him at his word. Just looking for some good honest input/discussion.


Thanks in advance


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

First if you can get the union one go for it. Once you have completed it, no one can that that Journeyman card back.


Is the non union one an registered apprenticeship? 
What are the strings attached to it?
Don't get burnt by no records of time and training, this seems to slip by the cracks in non union.


If non union is a documented program take it if you can't get the union one.


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## vangundyj (Feb 25, 2019)

My thing with the Union route is they take top 10 candidates and try and place them. With no timeline given or a guaranteed placement if you make the top ten. I applied when I lived out in Oregon too and was placed in the top 3 (#2 actually) and I found that out in January of 2018, got one interview, and I'm still on that list ranked as a top 3 candidate. So as you can tell, I have a bit of skepticism about waiting for something that may never come and quite frankly I'm damn tired of listening to people say what a need there is for tradesman but the results I'm seeing are polar opposite of the supposed "need".


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

vangundyj said:


> I just recently took my aptitude test on 02/22 at IBEW Local 14 in La Crosse and also met with a company out of Mauston WI that same day to discuss a non-union opportunity. The non-union opportunity seemed pretty decent and the union route is always a damn waiting game when trying to get started.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering what some good advise would be as far as what I should take advantage of? I know I probably won't have my panel interview until the end of March but could very well be offered a job with this company out of Mauston.



A union isn't an employer and depending on how you're joining in, there's a process you have to contend with. 



> When I sat down and met with the owner of the company he told me that he hasn't laid anyone off in the last 20 years he's owned the company but I don't know him from Adam and can only take him at his word. Just looking for some good honest input/discussion.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


"I never laid off an employee" could mean he either fires with cause or just makes the employees quit on their own.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*just watch out*



just the cowboy said:


> Is the non union one an registered apprenticeship?
> What are the strings attached to it?
> Don't get burnt by no records of time and training, this seems to slip by the cracks in non union.


Again just watch out, we see a lot of people start out then two years in ask "How do I get credit for time I worked"


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

IIRC WI has strict requirements, so, make sure you get your apprentice card...

https://dsps.wi.gov/Pages/Professions/ElectricalApprentice/Default.aspx

https://dwd.wisconsin.gov/apprenticeship/default.htm


IIRC they require 8000hrs documented to take your jmans test...
https://dsps.wi.gov/Pages/Professions/JourneymanElectrician/Default.aspx


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

First off welcome aboard @vangundyj!

In your shoes I'd take the non union job for now and keep trying for a union position.

20 years in you won't be sorry for going union.


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## vangundyj (Feb 25, 2019)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> A union isn't an employer and depending on how you're joining in, there's a process you have to contend with.
> 
> 
> I understand that a union isn't an employer, but I guess because I'm ignorant to many of the dynamics of the profession I'm having a hard time understanding why the process is so drawn out when the demand is supposedly so high. I could understand if you had thousands of applicants trying to get into the program that it would take some time. When I took my test I was in a room with 13 other individuals...I'm seeing a disconnect in the process needing to take 4 months to apply, test, and interview. Seems like that is something that could be literally cut in half. But again, I am ignorant to the dynamics of the field


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## vangundyj (Feb 25, 2019)

In your shoes I'd take the non union job for now and keep trying for a union position.

20 years in you won't be sorry for going union.[/quote]


This is helpful. My biggest concern is making a decision out of ignorance and regretting what I've done later on. I'm really just trying to make sure I have all my bases covered and do this with tact. What would be some good questions to ask the non-union job?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

vangundyj said:


> I understand that a union isn't an employer, but I guess because I'm ignorant to many of the dynamics of the profession I'm having a hard time understanding why the process is so drawn out when the demand is supposedly so high. I could understand if you had thousands of applicants trying to get into the program that it would take some time. When I took my test I was in a room with 13 other individuals...I'm seeing a disconnect in the process needing to take 4 months to apply, test, and interview. Seems like that is something that could be literally cut in half. But again, I am ignorant to the dynamics of the field



You only see the small picture of what goes on with the union hall, a minuscule view of the dynamics.

My old local is taking applications and expects to get thousands of them.

Things take time but in the end it is all worth the effort if you get in.

Why do you think so many apply?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

vangundyj said:


> In your shoes I'd take the non union job for now and keep trying for a union position.
> 
> 20 years in you won't be sorry for going union.


 
This is helpful. My biggest concern is making a decision out of ignorance and regretting what I've done later on. I'm really just trying to make sure I have all my bases covered and do this with tact. What would be some good questions to ask the non-union job?[/QUOTE]

1. Check out any perspective employer with the BBB.

2. Google them and see what else you can find.

3. Ask how many of their guys went on to get licenses?

4. How do they document hours?

5. Do they guarantee you 40 hours a week?

6. Do they have a recognized apprenticeship program?

7. Who pays for classes?

8. How long have the current employees been there?

9. What are you responsible to have (tools/clothing/PPE)?


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## vangundyj (Feb 25, 2019)

I guess I'm not sure why so many apply. I wish I would have applied sooner in life. I unfortunately took the 4 year schooling route and became a teacher and found out the hard way that education is so broke IDK if they'll ever fix it. So now I'm just a hopeful 27 year old looking to make a career change and get rid of my BS student debt.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

vangundyj said:


> I guess I'm not sure why so many apply. I wish I would have applied sooner in life. I unfortunately took the 4 year schooling route and became a teacher and found out the hard way that education is so broke IDK if they'll ever fix it. So now I'm just a hopeful 27 year old looking to make a career change and get rid of my BS student debt.


Relax bro!

Look in posts in this forum and you maybe shocked by the number of guys 20 years your senior that switched or are in the process of going to electrical work.

There was a post here a day or so ago about a guy that topped out at 65 and retired.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

And if you do go non union, learn everything you can. Noone can take experience away either.

You do not have to stay with that contractor either. Go union, gain some experience and apply at another non union, this time sell yourself, because now you got some experience under your belt!

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

If you are able to get an apprenticeship through the union, they often have better training programs and register you in an actual Wisconsin recognized apprentice program.

As others have replied concerning non-union companies; make sure they do register their apprentices in a Wisconsin recognized apprenticeship.

Check the information in the following website:

https://dwd.wisconsin.gov/apprenticeship/trades/construction_electrician.htm


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

vangundyj said:


> I guess I'm not sure why so many apply. I wish I would have applied sooner in life. I unfortunately took the 4 year schooling route and became a teacher and found out the hard way that education is so broke IDK if they'll ever fix it. So now I'm just a hopeful 27 year old looking to make a career change and get rid of my BS student debt.


 Being "27" years old is nowhere near being old. You'll do just fine.
No employer can guarantee "no lay offs" will ever happen.


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> You only see the small picture of what _goes on with the union hall_, a minuscule view of the dynamics.
> 
> My old local is taking applications and expects to get thousands of them.
> 
> ...



Here in Saint Louis, Local-1; "Henry's Boy" had no wait time at all. All three times of it  This was between 5-10 years ago when unemployment was much higher. "Henry's Boy" washed out all three times as well :laughing:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

vangundyj said:


> LawnGuyLandSparky said:
> 
> 
> > A union isn't an employer and depending on how you're joining in, there's a process you have to contend with.
> ...


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Small town rural America jobs are by and large nonunion. I am a non union employer and I think we do a good job of treating our employees properly. I know there are poor employers and good employers all over. Please do not paint al non union with the same brush. If you want to work in a small local setting for a company that has a lot of variety in the scope of work contact me and we can visit.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Many years ago, I was in the same position. I didn't care what it took, I just wanted to get my j-card. I applied to two union apprenticeships and one nonunion.

The nonunion was the first one to call back and put me to work. 15 years later I still work for the same company helping to manage it now. I've never been laid off and the worst I've had in all those years is a few short weeks. And I mean 25-30 hours at the least.

Just like everything in life, there is good, bad, and everything in between.

Do your due diligence on whoever you decide to go to work for.



tmessner said:


> Small town rural America jobs are by and large nonunion. I am a non union employer and I think we do a good job of treating our employees properly. I know there are poor employers and good employers all over. Please do not paint al non union with the same brush. If you want to work in a small local setting for a company that has a lot of variety in the scope of work contact me and we can visit.


I agree. We get a lot of variety, where some of the union outfits around here take on the big jobs(datacenters and similar) and seem to get stuck on one crew doing the same task over and over for quite some time.

Then when it's over, quite a few of them start traveling to get to the next job.

I've never really had to travel to stay busy, maybe a couple months when I was an apprentice. Other than that, the majority of work has all been within an hour or so of our shop, and we get paid drive time both directions. 

That's hard to beat, being home every night. Different strokes and all.

Bottom line, electricians are in demand. Once you get in the electrical trade, if you're good at what you do, you will stay busy until you retire.

That's a fact.:smile:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

vangundyj said:


> I guess I'm not sure why so many apply. I wish I would have applied sooner in life. I unfortunately took the 4 year schooling route and became a teacher and found out the hard way that education is so broke IDK if they'll ever fix it. So now I'm just a hopeful 27 year old looking to make a career change and get rid of my BS student debt.


Please check your messages.


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## Morales5712 (Oct 13, 2018)

trentonmakes said:


> And if you do go non union, learn everything you can. Noone can take experience away either.
> 
> You do not have to stay with that contractor either. Go union, gain some experience and apply at another non union, this time sell yourself, because now you got some experience under your belt!
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


This is the route I’m currently going.


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