# Gas manifold bonding



## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

Plumber installed a new manifold with the black flexible gas line coming off the manifold going throughout the house. He requested I bond it.

IMO this is a bond not a ground so the bond needs to be sized according to the service. Service is 600 amps with 2/0 copper bond to metal water pipe. Plan was to add another clamp to the water pipe and extend to the manifold. 

Am I right?


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

The NEC allows the EGC of gas appliances to bond the metal piping. So of you are just going above that, I would just use some #8. I don't think this has to be sized by the largest ungrounded service conductor.


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## Fishbulb (Jun 9, 2016)

blueheels2 said:


> Plumber installed a new manifold with the black flexible gas line coming off the manifold going throughout the house. He requested I bond it.


It's going to depend on building codes other than the NEC. The presence of corrugated stainless steel tubing can make a difference. Later fuel gas codes don't require the black arc resistant CSST to be treated any differently than standard steel pipe. But many areas have disallowed this exception and still treat it as regular CSST. Others are still using older codes which don't differentiate between the two types. You need to find out exactly what your locale requires. Generally pipefitters/plumbers in the area would know best but may still be using outdated information.



> IMO this is a bond not a ground so the bond needs to be sized according to the service.


If needed, it's actually a bond to the grounding electrode system, not to the electrical service. How that isn't grounding is beyond me but a discussion for another time. #6 copper is both the minimum and maximum required size if you do require 'bonding' regardless of the service size.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I agree that they are asking for this to be bonded because it is CSST. #6 will do.



> NFPA 54 National fuel Gas Code 7.13.2 CSST
> CSST gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system. The bonding jumper shall connect to a metallic pipe or fitting between the point of delivery and the first downstream CSST fitting. The bonding jumper shall not be smaller than # 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent. Gas piping systems that contain one ore more segments of CSST shall be bonded in accordance with this section.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

2018 CEC code deals with equipotential bonding. 10-708 requires minimum #6 copper or #4 aluminum. Not sure what the NEC equivalent is.

Personally, I think the guy who coined the word "equipotential" just wanted his 5 minutes of fame.......:wink:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Due to the location being "North Carolina" the CEC is irrelevant and Hack covered it well.


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## Fishbulb (Jun 9, 2016)

In addition to what HackWork posted, here is the recent code that may not require you to do anything at all.



> *7.12.3 Arc-Resistant Jacketed CSST.* CSST listed with an arc-resistant jacket or coating system in accordance with ANSI LC 1/CSA 6.26 Fuel Gas Piping Systems Using Corrugated Stainless-Steel Tubing, shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground fault current path. Where any CSST component of a piping system does not have an arc-resistant jacket or coating system, the bonding requirements of 7.12.2 shall apply. Arc-resistant jacketed CSST shall be considered bonded when it is connected to appliances that are connected to the appliance grounding conductor of the circuit supplying that appliance.


The black jacket designates the CSST as arc resistant. But as I wrote earlier, your location may not yet have adopted the recent version. Some locations that have adopted it still exclude the arc resistant exception.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Even if code doesn't require that particular type to be bonded, the plumber is asking for it to be bonded and if the owner is willing to pay, then $$$$$$$.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Fishbulb said:


> In addition to what HackWork posted, here is the recent code that may not require you to do anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> The black jacket designates the CSST as arc resistant. But as I wrote earlier, your location may not yet have adopted the recent version. Some locations that have adopted it still exclude the arc resistant exception.


Just for arguments sake where is location 7G?


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Even if code doesn't require that particular type to be bonded, the plumber is asking for it to be bonded and if the owner is willing to pay, then $$$$$$$.


Yeah this is where I’m going with it. 

When I see bond I automatically think size off largest ungrounded service conductor. Overkill in this scenario but I’ll call the AHJ and ask what he wants.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

blueheels2 said:


> Yeah this is where I’m going with it.
> 
> When I see bond I automatically think size off largest ungrounded service conductor. Overkill in this scenario but I’ll call the AHJ and ask what he wants.


It's not an electrical code or NEC requirement. I posted the gas code above that states #6 minimum. The manufacturer may require a larger size, but I doubt anyone will get that far into it, so I always just use #6.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Oh, it's CSST? I missed that whole thing. You'd be crazy not to bond it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> Oh, it's CSST? I missed that whole thing. You'd be crazy not to bond it.


FWIW, it's not electrical code and not the EC's responsibility. 

They put out a memo in my state citing that fact. Other trades can do the work legally if they bond to the water pipe or other methods, but only a licensed EC can bond to the inside of a panel/disco.

So I am just saying that the OP wouldn't be liable if the bond wasn't installed.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> FWIW, it's not electrical code and not the EC's responsibility.
> 
> They put out a memo in my state citing that fact. Other trades can do the work legally if they bond to the water pipe or other methods, but only a licensed EC can bond to the inside of a panel/disco.
> 
> So I am just saying that the OP wouldn't be liable if the bond wasn't installed.


Word. I didn't mean "you" as in the EC. I meant "you" as in the collective people that have CSST or install it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

According to some manufacturers of CSST you need to bond it base on 250.102 which means it could require 2/0 as the op mentioned. I think most inspection offices only require what the gas code requires which is a minimum #6 copper


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> According to some manufacturers of CSST you need to bond it base on 250.102 which means it could require 2/0 as the op mentioned. I think most inspection offices only require what the gas code requires which is a minimum #6 copper


This is true, if the manufacturer specs a certain size you have to follow that.

Witht hat said, I've installed a lot of these bonds in the last 5 years across many different towns and in my experience an inspector never asked about the manufacturer's requirements, they have always been happy with #6.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

AHJ says umber 6 is fine but he wants me to run it back to the service and connect it there. Not at the water pipe. More money for me. I’ll have to check the CSSt tomorrow and look up what the manufacturer wants.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

blueheels2 said:


> AHJ says umber 6 is fine but he wants me to run it back to the service and connect it there. Not at the water pipe. More money for me. I’ll have to check the CSSt tomorrow and look up what the manufacturer wants.


Connecting it to the water pipe within 5' of it entering the house is a *better* place to connect it than the electrical panel. IMO it's better to connect it directly to a grounding electrode than to the panel's ground.

The entire point of bonding the CSST is to direct lighting strikes back outside to the ground, so keeping the distance short and out of the panel is a good thing.

You want to connect to the gas system either outside of the house or as close to where it enters as possible. And you want to connect the other end to the electrical grounding system as close tot he electrodes as possible.











> The purpose of the bonding jumper required by these sections is to reduce the likelihood of damage to the CSST caused by the electrical energy from an indirect lightning strike. As you know, NOTHING is capable of protecting ANYTHING from a direct lightning strike. In the case of an indirect strike, the electrical energy could travel along metal piping and tubing and "jump" off to other metal components in the building. This causes an arcing that could burn and perforate the wall of CSST tubing due to the lack of thickness of its exterior wall thus causing a gas leak. Per the IRC/2009 Commentary, the bonding of the CSST directly to the electrical service grounding electrode system has been shown in laboratory testing to greatly reduce this risk.
> Remember that the bonding clamp must connect to the rigid steel piping at the point where the gas service enters the building and may be located
> either inside or outside the building. The bonding conductor must be continuous with the other end connected to the steel enclosure of the electrical service equipment or the grounded conductor at the electrical service or the grounding electrode conductor (if od sufficient size) between the service equipment and the grounding electrode(s) or one or more of the grounding electrodes for the electrical system. The bonding jumper may be connected as per the diagram below. The diagram is a reprint, with permission from the International Code Council (ICC), from the IRC/2009 Commentary. As you can see, ICC Commentaries provide wonderful insight into the intent of the code provisions and are a useful tool in any code official’s library.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

blueheels2 said:


> AHJ says umber 6 is fine but he wants me to run it back to the service and connect it there. Not at the water pipe. More money for me. I’ll have to check the CSSt tomorrow and look up what the manufacturer wants.


That's fine-- I don't think it is a violation to hit the water pipes however, if they change the pex then you've lost the bond. We always bring it back to the service or the ground rod.


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## Fishbulb (Jun 9, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just for arguments sake where is location 7G?


Sector 7G is home to various carbon blobs, fork and spoon operators, and chair moisteners at the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Due to the location being "North Carolina" the CEC is irrelevant and Hack covered it well.


I just assumed the NEC would have an equivalent rule as most of our code is based on yours. That's all.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> I just assumed the NEC would have an equivalent rule as most of our code is based on yours. That's all.


No offense intended, the CEC seems much more rigid than the NEC from what I read here.

Not being able to connect a PVC female adapter to a PVC male thread just for one example....


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

Another question. In this home The 2/0 from the service to water pipe is run bumpy itself in 1/14” EMT that is properly bonded at all ends of the raceway to prevent a choke point. Would it be acceptable to route this # 6 from the manifold in the same conduit?


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