# Laying Wire on the Ground



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Pull it on the weekend?
Problem solved lol


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

What authority does he have? Hired by the owners as QC? Good luck fighting it. It sounds like a BS requirement that they could use to pay you less than you bid the job for. 
You might ask him what he thinks the environment will be in the conduits 5 years from now. If he is expecting them to be perfectly clean and dry then, you know he is an idiot.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

If it’s not in the bid specs for it not to touch the ground, he needs to kick rocks. Is there a chain of custody from the manufacturer that it has never touched the ground from the instant it was manufactured until it was received by you?


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

I would have to ask for a definition of on the ground. 
On many occasions i have figure eight-ed the wire on top of a ground sheet to avoid picking up sand on a wire due to it being covered in lube. 600 feet with 5 pull points is still a easy lift for 2 people that know what they are doing.

If its control wire thinner than 12 i might be willing to put up a fight as that tends to get to messy to figure eight.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Is your contract with the owner? Explain how you bid the job and be able to show lots of picture of other projects in the area with wire on the ground.

I did it for decades, just needed an extra person feeding the cables so that they could be wiped off.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Code reference?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

An “Inspector for the Owner?”
Is that a new term for my wife’s gynecologist?


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

1/4” Masonite


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

micromind said:


> Code reference?


All inspectors that make crap up need to hear that!

AHJ means over the NEC. Not the make up of the universe.


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## Ty the electric guy (Feb 16, 2014)

Roll out a few rolls of poly. Pretty cheap


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

Some windex and a cloth and tell him your also polishing the wires as they are going in the conduit.

Hell, maybe plege would be better ask him to decide.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

First off I ask for credentials. And..... Those credentials include a fully licensed electrician, and.... it better be a "master" level one at that, since I am. The military doesn't let privates tell generals what to do. 

And no, electrical engineering license doesn't count. Nor certificate of architectural degree. Nor a shiny white hard hat with zero scratches. 

I laid wire on the ground all 50 yrs of work, not a problem except for that one time with figure 8 gone mad when pulling fiber. 

Foremen on the jobs should always have a good nasty German Shepard dog they can just let off the leash when the white shiny hard hats show up.....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

CAUSA said:


> Some windex and a cloth and tell him your also polishing the wires as they are going in the conduit.
> 
> Hell, maybe plege would be better ask him to decide.


Proven harmful to wire insulation.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Proven harmful to wire insulation.


I know, I was being sarcastically Joking.

But it is a way of see if the inspector knows his stuff. And P!ss him off at the same time.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I can see the owner's agent point. It has little to do with electrical codes but the owner's preference. He is signing the check so you have to do what he wants. We have all laid wires on the floor and seen what they can pick up. One wire pull I had the wires neatly laid out and everybody was rolling over and stepping on the cables. I don't speak dirt bag so the other workers on the sit did not understand, " keep off the wires". DATA and sensor wires are very fragile so extra care is needed. Cables will fail long after the contractor is paid.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

I used to do a lot of work at rock crushing facilities, if laying cable on the dirt before pulling was a bad thing, there would be a LOT of "bad" installations out there.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

That’s nuts, show me a standard or spec.

We just do each run separately a few feet at a time depending on the room. So if the first run is 100 feet we maybe pull 120 feet. Lay 20 feet on the ground. Then feed the 20 feet in and pull another 20 feet in. Keep repeating. At pull 2 when we end up with slack on the ground again pull some out then feed it on run 3. Don’t ever let the “loop” on each pull go in until you reach the end. You need one man at each pull point or you run you rear end off going back and forth. Lube at usually just the spool end. We don’t usually add more at each pull point, but with that length and that many pulls I’d be tempted to just pull a lot more out on the ground and try to avoid manning every pull point. Otherwise you’d use a huge crew to pull for a couple hours then pay for travel.


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## htneighbors (Jan 23, 2009)

I've been on both ends of this exact issue. As a contractor, I've had specs requiring us to keep the conductors from contacting the earth or floors before, during and after installation. 'Maintain separation' was the terminology used several times. Cardboard, tarps, visqueen, plywood, etc...simple fix, yet pain to deal with in some situations. 

With almost 40 years in the trade, I've spent almost half of those as an "inspector for the owner". This is usually referred to as a QA Inspector. The owner's rep. There is a huge difference between QA (Quality Assurance) and QC (Quality Control). Many (MOST) people in the industry have no idea the difference. They are certainly NOT the same, for good reason. The OP doesn't mention anything about what was in the bid specs. This is most important. If this spec was in the bid...BOOM - do it. If not, they have a leg to stand on in refusing to comply, or simply add any additional change order costs. 

Many, no...I'd say MOST inspectors - regardless of whether they are city, county, state or project - inspect based on their own personal preference. This is what's wrong! I could care less what they 'prefer'. Does it comply with codes, standards, and specs? That's ALL that matters. And most contractors simply comply to get along. This is also wrong. If it is in compliance with all codes, standards, and specs...piss on them. It doesn't matter what they prefer. When I began inspecting, I decided immediately to never be the prick inspector as many I had dealt with previously, but be fair and professional. 

As a Quality Assurance (QA - Owner's Rep) Inspector, my responsibilities were to inspect the installation of the project and determine whether it was in compliance with any and all applicable codes and standards (yes...there are many beyond the NEC) as well as owner's specifications. Period. Personal preference has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are many ways to do a task. The only question is: Regardless of my preference, is it in compliance with codes and specs? Many inspectors have too big of an ego to consider this.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Here in Southeast Texas, unpaved roads and driveways are built using an easy to obtain material, oyster shell.

We had an underground wire pull, across an area that was to be a lay down yard.

There were 4 in ground concrete boxes spaced about 200 ft apart to get power to a "shack" that was the shipping/receiving office and scale house.

The conduits had been blown clean when the pig was blown through.

We pulled in 4 #2's and 1#6, easy pull.

We pulled slack out at each box.

Terminated the wires on both ends, then flipped the breaker ON...loud pop.

Did anyone megger the wires?

Several "not me" replies.

The wire apparently picked up some pieces of oyster shell when the wire was coiled on the ground with nothing under it.

Had to pull the wires back out.

That is when we found the oyster shell had shredded the insulation in several places.

No salvaging the wire, so the journeyman had to call the shop and have them reorder 4 1000 foot reels of #2 and 1000 feet of #6.

Shop not happy.

So keep your wire clean.

Since I was the apprentice at the time, I had to untangle the wires we pulled out, then try to roll them back onto the reels.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

when you lay a single wire on the ground, usually the most it will pick up is dust, mud if it is wet
when you lay a bare coil of wire on the ground and the coils are stacked you have added weight to the bottom piece and it can get damaged
i have been around the shell roads you are talking about, most of the pieces are not that sharp, jostling against each other in transport or spreading will dull them
but yes some of them survive with sharp places on them, if you step on one just right to be wrong it will cut your boot sole

i have seen ropers pick up a new 250' roll of 12-2G and carelessly throw it around on trash etc or on shovels, picks, etc. in the truck
they have never had to replace some wire because they damaged it before the install

in some cases i can agree that wire needs to stay off the ground, but not in most


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Code officials responsibility is “protection of the public interest”. They could care less about safety or standards. Their job is to keep the voters from voting out politicians because we saddled responsibility for keeping contractors in line with the government. Most of those guys will have a fit over a single machine screw missing from a draw out switchgear lineup missed at the factory and not even consider checking breaker settings even though that is Code and far more critical.

In other words they are not QC or QA.

I also disagree with your assessment of QA. Your description is QC. QC does tests and inspections for quality. Their thing is the acceptance and commissioning steps although arguably according to Deming it should happen much earlier in the process than the traditional work flow.

QA is outside the process. They drive the implementation. For the n stance they would be checking Why certain QC issues keep coming up and address deficiencies. They should provide verification on what QC is doing. They would certainly get involved with regulatory compliance both conferencing issues when codeofficials are out of line and to avoid creating issues. But they would also make sure that for instance the extra testing is done on transformers over 10 MVA. They might even get involved in quality control on drawings.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I would hand them a change order for double your contract price.


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