# Pricing



## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Wondering if I can get a ideal of what to charge on a 1000 square foot residential home with basement. All new wiring with 100 amp upgrade old construction with plaster walls 35 outlets 15 switches 2 r three way. All lighting will b the existing light besides basement using cheap lites


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

What is your overhead and what kind of margins are you looking to get?


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

New construction is what I mainly work on but I now old construction can have fire blocks which cause double hours and plaster wall with wood slates scare me cause patch work. The basement allows me to use junction boxes so that's not so bad. I'm looking at around $2000 material and paying two guys to help but don't now much about electric. I'm figuring three days of work maybe more $700 for employes. Does $5000 sound right


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

It can be $2k, $5k, $10k, or $16k. Only you can price this to make your company money. Since you are new here, what you need to do is do a search on how to figure your overhead. You need to know exactly what your costs are. You can not be a successful contractor by pulling numbers out your hat (which is what it sounds like you are doing). 

A perfect example. There is a contractor on this site that is an hour south of me. Their hourly is around twice as much as mine, and if I stated what I charge, a lot of people would think I am crazy high. I know another guy who is probably losing $300 a day and doesn't even know it because he is always winging it. The point is, you cant even install a ceiling fan without knowing your actual costs.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Labor + Materials + Overhead + Profit = Price.



knowshorts said:


> ......... You can not be a successful contractor by pulling numbers out your hat (which is what it sounds like you are doing). ...........


And using someone else's pricelist will send you back into the 9-5 crowd just as fast.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks for the input I will do more research on pricing. I already now what the materials r going to cost was more worried about time so I know what to charge for labor. 
Again Thanks for ur input


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

This past year I made over $300,000 for profit but that's new construction. Work slowing down so I'm getting into old construction need to b smart cause I now it's a lot different with time and repairs.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Here's a list of the most common expenses for an EC. Not all of them may apply to your case, and there may be more than this that will affect you.
*
Building
*Building 
Warehouse Space
Trash Removal
Lawn Care
Snow removal
Upkeep & Repairs
*Office Expenses
*Computers
Stationary
Copy machine
Fax machine
Forms
Printing
Software
Office Equipment
Computer maintenance
Files
Postage
Office Supplies
*IT
*Internet service
Email accounts
Web site
-Initial creation
-Updating
-Maintenance
GPS services
*Benefits
*Vacation Pay
Holiday Pay
Uniforms
Uniform Maintenance
Unemployment
Bonuses
Incentives
Retirement Plan
Christmas Party
*Taxes
*Property Taxes
Tangible Taxes
Pay Roll Taxes
Income Taxes
Sales Tax
*Training
*Management Training
Office Training
In-House Training
Tech Training
Mfg. Training
Training Equipment
Safety Training
Update classes
License testing
*Insurance
*Building Insurance
Liability Insurance
Employee Insurance
Life Insurance
Business Insurance
Workers Comp.
*Utilities
*Gas
Electricity
Telephone / Fax lines
Internet Service
Toll Calls
Telephones
Pagers/Cell Phones
Radio Maintenance
*Vehicles
*Vehicle Maintenance
Ladder Racks
Interior bins
Fuel
Truck Signs / lettering / vinyl
Tires
*Financial
*Accounting
Loans
Tax Preparation
Interest
30+ Day Receivables
Bank Charges
*Travel
*Hotel
Meals
Airline / vehicle
*Unique to the electrical trade
*Permits
Licenses
Bonds
Inspections
Trade Association
Subscriptions
Memberships
Dues
Retainers
Safety PPE
-Lock-out/Tag-out kits
-Fall prevention harness
-Arc-flash clothing
-Hard hats
-Safety glasses
-Hearing protection
*Tools
*Company Tools
Safety Equipment
Ladders
2-way Radios
Test Equipment
Replacement Parts
Parts Storage
Damages
Tool Replacement
Job site storage
*Misc.
*Trips to Supply House
Theft
Uncollected Money
Collection fees
Unbillable Hours
Commissions
Call Backs / Warranty work
Shortages
Bad Checks
Delivery
Credit Card Sales
Drug Testing
*Legal 
*Legal advice
Law Suits
Incorporation / LLC fees
*Advertising
*Marketing
Business cards
Signs
Radio / TV
Newspaper
Flyers / brochures
Material Purchases
Inventory
*Labor
*Wages
Salaries
Dispatcher
Answering Service


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

And we are here to help. I could have been an asshole and just thrown a number out, but I wish success to every contractor. It's the guys who don't know their numbers who mess it for the entire industry.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Also, which level are you at?:

Level 0 is “Anything for a buck.”
Level 1 is knowing that you have to deduct the costs before you start counting "your money".
Level 2 is knowing what those costs are.
Level 3 is understanding that "your" time has value.
Level 4 is understanding that you need lots of "gross profit" to cover the "overhead"
Level 5 is understanding knowing what your net profit (before taxes, interest and depreciation) actually is.
Level 6 is having enough net profit (after taxes, interest and depreciation) left each month to cover the risk you take in earning that money.
Level 7 is having a comfortable cushion after covering the risk


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm at level 0. It's been over 5 years since I've eaten any venison.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm lucky as for as over head as of now I 1099 my employes. I've been to school for computer networking so that has no cost actually my over head is very low for now. My main jobs come from builders so I'm lucky for that I spend on over head around $10,000 yearly employees $50,000 and I work from home o I don't have that money coming out on property. Need to learn more before I purchase a place of business.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm rating my self a 5 on ur scale not doing to bad for first year knock on wood. Beats my last job only made 68,000 a year and love working for myself


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> This past year I made over $300,000 for profit





Saywhat16 said:


> my over head is very low for now. I spend on over head around $10,000 yearly employees $50,000 and I work from home o I don't have that money coming out on property.





Saywhat16 said:


> not doing to bad for first year


This is exactly why I said you need to figure out YOUR numbers. All your comments above scream newbie. You're here now. I would highly recommend you spend the weekend searching and reading previous posts and acquiring some of the books mentioned.

You made over $300k in profit and this was your first year in business? I am not gonna call you a liar, but maybe you had $300k in sales, or even gross profit, but I doubt it was net. Sales and gross are not as important as net.

Your overhead is $10k. You are not even close. Try multiplying that number by at least 10. Look at the 3rd to the last item on 480's list. That is absolutely the most important item on his list. And also, most likely the largest expense.



> Need to learn more


Yes, you do.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> I'm lucky as for as over head as of now I 1099 my employes. .........


 That right there just screams, "HUGE RED FLAG!!!!!!!"

I got a dollar that says what you're doing is illegal.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> That right there just screams, "HUGE RED FLAG!!!!!!!"
> 
> I got a dollar that says what you're doing is illegal.


I have $10,000 dollars that says you are correct, the OP is operating illegally.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> This past year I made over $300,000 for profit ....



What were you gross sales to get you that profit?


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

You profited 300k and your only spent 60k :laughing:


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Excuse me 300,000 n total sales 100,000 total for materials, gas, ext... and around 60,000 n pay roll My bad for not adding another zero. Would be nice to profit that much. I'm sure after taxes,overhead,and payroll my profit will only b a third of total sales this is a round about number.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> but don't now much about electric.


Are you an Electrical Contractor or a general contractor?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

The_Modifier said:


> Are you an Electrical Contractor or a general contractor?


A gc checking in his prices from his ec sub


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I took it as his help doesn't know much. Could go either way with spelling and grammatical errors.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

I have now been on here long enough to officially know when I see a troll. 
BTW where is Peter D?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

You guys scared another one away


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks for the help and smart a$$ comments BOYS!!! Might not b a genius like some of u guys but I am doing the job right and making money.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

How do you make money when you need to ask a bunch of strangers how to price your work?


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> Thanks for the smart a$$ comments BOYS!!!.


Anytime  sorry, but by the way you have asked how to price jobs sets off a red flag as an unlicensed contractor. Re read your original post as a third person- you will see what we mean.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> ... I am .. making money.


How do you know if you don't know what your costs are?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> Thanks for the help and smart a$$ comments BOYS!!! Might not b a genius like some of u guys but I am doing the job right and making money.


Well I guess you learned to check your feelings at the door and wear your big boy pants when you come in here. :laughing::laughing:


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Like I said I did new construction working with builders. I asked a simply question about how to price homes already finished and older homes at that. Already knew material price I was asking about labor charge. Simple answer could of been double ur normal rates. Never told anyone what my labor rates r and I'm not picking ur rates everyone's is different. But no I see a lot of negative comments. For what I made this year was a good start and legal stated wrong on profit when I meant total sales (typing mistake) round about numbers also. Remarks about my workers only means they don't now electric like a real electrician but there young and learning. Maybe one or two people was respectful but u others where unprofessional with your remarks. I hope that's not how u act towards your clients.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> ...... Simple answer could of been double ur normal rates..........


Which would help you...... how?


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

We can settle this, saywhat, do you know ohm's law?


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Apparently I offended a lot of people with that Q could of been easier to say we don't discuss on this site but u want to act like bricks. No problem cause I found how to price the labor anyway. And I'm not leaving this site cause I'm here to get answers if I need and give answers to others if they need.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I think the one who is most offended is you.


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

The answer was given to you at least twice....grow a brick


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Put it like this I have associate n industrial electricity and n electronic technology. Also have a certifications n home automation from SanDiego. I have a license for electric so don't ask me about ohms law like I'm on here for as joke


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Not offended just the ones keep replying with unrelated marks that have no advice that's useful


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> Not offended just the ones keep replying with unrelated marks that have no advice that's useful


You might want to search the forum- it happens in EVERY thread.:thumbsup:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> Not offended just the ones keep replying with unrelated marks that have no advice that's useful


 
Never make eye contact with another guy while eating a banana.:jester:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> Not offended just the ones keep replying with unrelated marks that have no advice that's useful


And you just ignored the advice that _was_ given you.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Sparky I believe I said I figured it out all that u stated I already knew I was talking about time wise with existing plaster walls with wood slates. It's thicker than drywall and old work boxes don't work as well so I know it takes longer on each box installed plus repairs if needed. If u installed residential electric like that then u know it takes longer to install. So my main Q was how much more time does it take so I could give a good labor bid. Instead u come at me with smart comments which had no relation with my Q. And if u did like u say show me the post that was helpful to my Q cause I'm not seeing it.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

How many employees do you have?


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I have two they been working with me for 3 months I use them to run wire and I do check their work but I do the finish work until they get time under there belt.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

You pay a fair wage if your guys made 30k each in three months. :thumbup:


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Last year I worked n a chemical plant. I worked on motors, PLC, I was in valved working on designing assembly lines so residential is easy money and easy work. I decided to work for my self cause I have home builders i now that gave me all their work. Now I trying to expand and this is the first job I've ran into with plaster walls.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

They are fun you will learn as you go price the best you can and you should get out alive. Hopefully you have a lot of experience with fishing wires. You do pay your guys quite a bit for people that are new to the trade they both made 30k in three months last year and you can't trust them to do finish work?


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I had two employees I let go then had two ready to work and I pay them good im not greedy i believe u do good by ur employess then they will do good for u a lot of people r unemployed so I'm trying to grow and hire more people. I only been doing this since Jan 2012. I'm hoping to do better than my first year and my first year was a good year. I payed myself what I made from my last job so my company made a good profit that sits n the bank. I don't have a shop I do all my work at home. U now how it goes (it's all who u now) and that's how I got started. Better than taking orders from a 23 year old engineer that always has his so called theory's.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Not three months a year. Two guys I have now only had for three months.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> Sparky I believe I said I figured it out all that u stated I already knew I was talking about time wise with existing plaster walls with wood slates. It's thicker than drywall and old work boxes don't work as well so I know it takes longer on each box installed plus repairs if needed. If u installed residential electric like that then u know it takes longer to install. So my main Q was how much more time does it take so I could give a good labor bid. Instead u come at me with smart comments which had no relation with my Q. And if u did like u say show me the post that was helpful to my Q cause I'm not seeing it.


Well, since you obviously have more experience than I do at wiring old houses, any response I make would be meaningless. I guess being in the trade for 20 years means nothing to a noob.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I pay 575 by check each week but their eager and young I'm hoping I can grow and use them to run a crew themselves but it takes time to learn. Can't grow if I'm always doing the work. I'm hoping n a couple of years I don't have to get n crawl spaces and attics. I just want to get the jobs and and over see the work. I believe that's everyone's plans that start up a company. It just don't happen over night.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Saywhat16 said:


> I pay 575 by check each week but their eager and young I'm hoping I can grow and use them to run a crew themselves but it takes time to learn. Can't grow if I'm always doing the work. I'm hoping n a couple of years I don't have to get n crawl spaces and attics. I just want to get the jobs and and over see the work. I believe that's everyone's plans that start up a company. It just don't happen over night.



Since this is your first time it will take longer than one of us that has done it a lot. So it's really hard to tell you how to price it. And we can't see the house to have any idea what you are dealing with. Hopefully you will post pics along the way though.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Sparky I wasn't downing u. U were not answering a simple Q I asked about how much more time it takes to install electric n plaster walls. If u had 20 years than u could of answered it with no problem but u throw out a bunch of crap like I'm running a massive company. I read ur post and it had nothing to do with what I asked. And I'm sure u now more than me that's why I joined this site to find answers not to get slammed.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I know it's sometimes difficult to type words exactly as you mean to say them. You've already corrected yourself with the sales/profit thing. But you said you 1099 your guys. Hey, we've all got skeletons, but is that really a risk you want to take? The way I have read your posts, your guys definitely do not qualify as independent contractors. That's not a little deal, I am guessing that is a federal crime.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

And you're gonna get slammed. Don't take offense. It's happened to all of us. You gotta grow thicker skin.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Saywhat16 said:


> Sparky I wasn't downing u. U were not answering a simple Q I asked about how much more time it takes to install electric n plaster walls.


Really all depends on the experience on the type of job and you have not done this type of job before so you will run into all sorts of gremlins along the way. And it will be a learning experience.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I charged $6,800 and the home owner gave me the job and told me my bid was 500 lower than the other guy and the highest price was $8,100 out of five total bidding. I estimated 40 hours to complete job. As I said before 1000 sf with open basement glow rods will do fine and junction boxes will use n basement. My profit for job will b $3000. I will have done n 30 hours. I now know what to charge


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

It's not a crime they claim self employed as labor. I have a tax accountant. Already did research they pay taxes on their earnings and get to use mileage for deductions and its 55 mile. Do ur research be for u call me a criminal. Or just stick to ur w-2 and turbo tax


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

And yeah knowshorts I'm using my iPhone to type my post and I made a mistake of saying profit when I meant total sales when I put 10000 I meant 100,000 so sue me for that. I didn't reread my post befor I sent. If I made 300000 profit and only paid 10000 overhead then yeah that's impossible unless I was getting a five finger discount and obvious that wouldn't fly with the IRS.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

New service and new wires will be a complete job. Will probably be required to do AFCI's. Will be required to bring it up to current codes to pass inspection. Wont be a cheap adventure.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Instead of trying to find something to run me down why don't u give advice that can help someone. Funny how people reply and just talk down on others Over a price Q. Seems to me not all but some r haters. U don't like working for the man then grow a set and start working for ur self. Not as easy than working a 8 hour job to make that same pay check every week. I work ass off to try to better my income and not take **** from a holes. No job is secure in this country u want something u have to do it ur self


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

No in this town AFCI r not required and if they where they only need to b in each bed room and there is only 2 rooms so what's that $50 each. But in the future they will be required in almost every circuit by then they will be around $25 apiece. I now the NEC it's the ad on the towns that change what they want.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Saywhat16 said:


> Instead of trying to find something to run me down why don't u give advice that can help someone. Funny how people reply and just talk down on others Over a price Q. Seems to me not all but some r haters. U don't like working for the man then grow a set and start working for ur self. Not as easy than working a 8 hour job to make that same pay check every week. I work ass off to try to better my income and not take **** from a holes. No job is secure in this country u want something u have to do it ur self



Just saying it seemed like a tight budget for a rewire of a 1000 sq ft home and bring it up to code to pass inspections. You say you have never done this before so it's hard for anyone to help you. And now you say you already had it priced out and knew what to charge and what your profit will be. Just my opinion but it seems low for the amount of work in a rewire.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> I'm lucky as for as over head as of now I 1099 my employes.


I wasn't calling you a criminal. But look real close at what I quoted. I am not a tax attorney and I don't play one on tv. The IRS guidelines are very clear. An independent contractor is not an employee. If your employees do not pay employment taxes, you will be responsible. Do you cover workmans comp? If I were in your shoes, I would get a second opinion just to cover your ass.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> Or just stick to ur w-2 and turbo tax


And by the way, I haven't seen a w2 in years and I have a real good tax guy.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

knowshorts said:


> I wasn't calling you a criminal. But look real close at what I quoted. I am not a tax attorney and I don't play one on tv. The IRS guidelines are very clear. An independent contractor is not an employee. If your employees do not pay employment taxes, you will be responsible. Do you cover workmans comp? If I were in your shoes, I would get a second opinion just to cover your ass.


Yeah and a previous employee that is let go will not claim anything just to f with you.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I might call them employees on here but they r independent contractors I said earlier they work for them selfs so yeah I hire them as sub contractors and they r allowed to work under my electrical licsense as long as I over see there work. That's why I'm allowed to pay them descent and 1099 them I don't have to pay but there check the job it self is under my insurance but for them they have to pay their own comp if they want it. Do the research before u put ur nonsense out there


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

So they are responsible for their own liability insurance for 575 a week?


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> Do the research before u put ur nonsense out there


Dude, you really need to lighten up. I have done nothing but try to help you. I have based all my posts on the words you have typed.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I cover my tracks I have copies of their licsense SSC and I paid by company check. If the first two don't file their 1099 then that's on them not me. I'm not new to residential I'm 39 years old been playing with electric for 20 years plus had it n high school went to collage for it. I know the NEC and what I don't now is easy to get.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Don't think I would be able to work as a sub contractor for 575 a week paying disability and insurance and taxes workers comp. It would be like min wage after all that.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

N time I hope to change to put them on payroll but for now company needs to grow. People work for much less with no insurance or comp. times r changing and for the people that r working should consider them selves lucky. Non of us really have job security and I'm working hard to help some people work. I work over 60 hours a week easy my other guys only work 40. But I have to get jobs wright bids. In time ill get better.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

I live in a poor area and I could not even put food on the table for my family with that deal. Would probably be a better write off to just hire them since you made 300k last year and only had 160k in expense.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

When u subcontract ( work for ur self) u get to claim mileage and its 55 cents a mile for deduction so if u traveled 10,000 miles that a $ 5,500 the IRS looks as tax u payed n then if they have dependent a that's $3,500 on each dependent up to three so both my guys have dependent and will get a refund. That's a fact


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I have to pay my wages from last job 68,000 a year it's what I'm custom to the rest go into the company so it will grow. Can't have a company if its not making money. These guys have no education other than high school they can quit any time but where will they work fast food jobs r very hard to find and the ones out there don't pay ****. They make more working for me and they don't complain just happy to work and if they stay for the long run it will pay off for them.


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

I 1099 everybody, also give them work truck to use(no side jobs with my material) ........All they have to do is show up with tools in hand............no complaints....do not call them employees............one of my hands has been 1099'd for 12 years working for me.......he does well with his money......I offer medical/dental packages, which they pay and is written off.....u on your own for retirement and SS, however, I have CPA who helps my guys out with anything tax related, I tried to go with w-2 system a few years back.....just seemed like more hassle and paperwork and gov't involvement ...........on newer guys, we deduct(with permission) 50$ a check(I pay every 2weeks) till end of year to help them with taxes .......the older guys done figured it out.......


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

This 1099 thing has got me baffled. I am eligible to be 1099ed by another contractor because I can meet the definition of an independent contractor. The only way I would do it is as a sub contractor. I sure as hell wouldn't do it for $14.375 an hour. In fact, I most likely wouldn't do it for hourly at all, it would be for a contract price. If I was in a jam, I might do it for $70 an hour maybe.

It just sounds to me like bad advice to 1099 your guys. If you have grown enough to need help, do it right. Payroll is not difficult. You can set up accounts with ADP and they handle everything for you. All you gotta do is contact your chick once a week. They even handle pay as you go WC so you don't need to bother with annual audits.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

You guys that are paying employees as subcontractors are asking to get fined.

If you tell these guys when to be where and what to do, you cannot win the case that they are subcontractors. You may also be breaking state contracting laws. In NC, you must have an electrical contractors license to contract electrical work. If you are paying someone as a subcontractor and they don't have the EC license, you can lose your license or possibly go to jail.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small...ndent-Contractor-(Self-Employed)-or-Employee?


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

On my journeymen, I don't pay by the hour, they get to profit-share......just easier that way .......whoever is at shop when call comes in , they get that job...........apprentices get paid daily rate per 8 hours on the clock.........I'm not responsible for your money management , they earn enough to live comfortably.......I pay good money for good help and sh*t gets done !!!!!


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

LegacyofTroy said:


> ...........apprentices get paid daily rate per 8 hours on the clock.......


Do apprentices get a W2 or a 1099?


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Also if you have had these guys three months and you can't trust them to do any finish work then it may be time to start teaching them and step their wage up a decent amount after they learn. Or cut them lose for someone you can trust.

If I can't trust anyone to at least wire some receptacles switches and lights under my supervision it's time to get someone I can trust.


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Do apprentices get a W2 or a 1099?


1099'd ,everybody ....even me


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

Here's a fact. You are breaking Federal law. Just saw a drywall guy get run out of business doing the same thing you are doing. The IRS and ICE stuck it to him.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Explain why 1099 is breaking the law when the IRS has a form for it? My help is just helpers not apprentice. If u want to post I'm breaking the law then go to IRS.gov and prove it other than that don't reply with out facts not hear say. I have a accountant that's been doing my taxes for years and talked about it before I even started working for my self.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> Explain why 1099 is breaking the law when the IRS has a form for it? My help is just helpers not apprentice. If u want to post I'm breaking the law then go to IRS.gov and prove it other than that don't reply with out facts not hear say. I have a accountant that's been doing my taxes for years and talked about it before I even started working for my self.





> Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed.


http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Employee-(Common-Law-Employee)

Do you control what will be done during the day?


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

Saywhat16 said:


> Explain why 1099 is breaking the law when the IRS has a form for it? My help is just helpers not apprentice. If u want to post I'm breaking the law then go to IRS.gov and prove it other than that don't reply with out facts not hear say. I have a accountant that's been doing my taxes for years and talked about it before I even started working for my self.


http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small...ndent-Contractor-(Self-Employed)-or-Employee?

Here you go...........


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)




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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> View attachment 21194


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I pay my accountant to do my taxes so if he is wrong than I'm not reliable for his mistakes. I trust my accountant cause that's what they do for a living and his company has been around for over thirty years so ill take his advise on that subject. This is a electrical forum not a tax lesson from a electrician. Do u do ur own taxes or u pay to have them done? Cause if u now so much u should switch jobs. They make more money.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

No there not


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> I pay my accountant to do my taxes so if he is wrong than I'm not reliable for his mistakes. ........


Liable, not reliable.

Either way, The IRS will say you are.




Saywhat16 said:


> ..... This is a electrical forum not a tax lesson from a electrician......


And being an EC is part of the trade. And knowing the laws is part of being an EC.


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

This is a fine example of one of the things wrong in this country. The Legit guys have to compete with this......


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Since they are not employees they can make up their own schedule show up and leave when they want take days off whenever as long as the job gets done on schedule? I don't know how they can work off your liability when they are not your employees.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Why do u guys even care about how I do things? It's legal and I'm legit and what's wrong with this country is the cry babies that r complaining about how I pay my help. The negative responses I get from some of u shows ur character. If u now so much about taxes than why do u have someone do them for u? It funny how I'm getting private messages about some u guys that all u do is cry and complain. If u have a problem then call ur congressman. Other than that go do ur job and worry about ur self.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I didn't realize trying to get you to understand the LAW is crying.

But if you don't want us to care about you..... We'vell be happy to oblige.


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

Race to the bottom.................


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Straight from the IRS. So don't try to bull $hit about something u don't have a clue about


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> Straight from the IRS. So don't try to bull $hit about something u don't have a clue about


That's for form 1099. That has NOTHING to do as to whether your guys are employees or not.

Just because you 1099 them does NOT make them ICs.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

I have a electrical license, business license, I'm insured all the things I need to b legit. I use guys to help with the grunt work. At the end of the year they get a 1099-misc they don't have to a apprentice to help it's totally legal. All that matters is the job gets done right and passes inspection. So why so many negative responses. U say u r trying to help but I only see u responding that I'm doing it wrong not once did I see u say try doing it like this. Seems like u have a issue about how I pay my help. No matter how u look at it the GOV still gets there money. I just don't see how u think I'm breaking the law by paying people to help. Most companys 1099 their help. If the help has a problem then they don't have to work but at least I'm helping people put food on their tables.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

What happens in the event one of those guys gets seriously injured and says they work for you at the hospital.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

They r self employed sole- proprietor it's on them. Like I explained before I only started my business a year ago it takes time to grow I have connections with builders and working on getting jobs with insurance company's on burn out homes. I want to get to the point to where I can employ this guys and offer health insurance retirement plans payed vacations but I need to grow first. As them getting hurt on the job it's on them.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

​


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Saywhat16 said:


> I have a electrical license, business license, I'm insured all the things I need to b legit. I use guys to help with the grunt work. At the end of the year they get a 1099-misc they don't have to a apprentice to help it's totally legal. All that matters is the job gets done right and passes inspection. So why so many negative responses. U say u r trying to help but I only see u responding that I'm doing it wrong not once did I see u say try doing it like this. Seems like u have a issue about how I pay my help. No matter how u look at it the GOV still gets there money. I just don't see how u think I'm breaking the law by paying people to help. Most companys 1099 their help. If the help has a problem then they don't have to work but at least I'm helping people put food on their tables.


Sure if you say so.

But the IRS seems to think they have the say.



> Employee (Common-Law Employee)
> 
> Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee* if you can control what will be done and how it will be done.* This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed.
> 
> ...


That quote is found here http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Employee-(Common-Law-Employee)


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Saywhat16 said:


> They r self employed sole- proprietor it's on them. Like I explained before I only started my business a year ago it takes time to grow I have connections with builders and working on getting jobs with insurance company's on burn out homes. I want to get to the point to where I can employ this guys and offer health insurance retirement plans payed vacations but I need to grow first. As them getting hurt on the job it's on them.


I do have a lawyer that wrote up documents that they signed so they can't sue me. 
I'm hoping to do good this year so I can hire another electrician so I can get my jobs done faster but just can't afford to pay one right now. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about running a company. I will learn as I go and I now I'm going to make mistakes at times but I'm deticated to make this work. Some of these guys jumped my original topic of asking about pricing a older house but gave no advice just smart comments on not knowing how to bid. But if u call different company's u get different prices from every one. I bought a MS means book that helps with pricing but don't give ideals on these older homes. I read some of these other forums and seen how others comment. To me it's not professional.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Saywhat16 said:


> They r self employed sole- proprietor it's on them. Like I explained before I only started my business a year ago it takes time to grow I have connections with builders and working on getting jobs with insurance company's on burn out homes. I want to get to the point to where I can employ this guys and offer health insurance retirement plans payed vacations but I need to grow first. As them getting hurt on the job it's on them.


Do you have a contract that states this so if one of them gets hurt and says they work for you they can't claim workers comp? Since you are paying them every week they could easily say they work for you and got hurt working for you. If you don't have a contract then you would not have a leg to stand on when trying to get out of paying their workers comp and medical bills.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> ........ But if u call different company's u get different prices from every one. ......


That is why asking US what WE charge has _NO bearing_ on what _YOU_ need to charge.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> I do have a lawyer that wrote up documents that they signed so they can't sue me.


I call BS.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

rrolleston said:


> Do you have a contract that states this so if one of them gets hurt and says they work for you they can't claim workers comp? Since you are paying them every week they could easily say they work for you and got hurt working for you. If you don't have a contract then you would not have a leg to stand on when trying to get out of paying their workers comp and medical bills.


That's why I have a lawyer which wrote a document saying if they get hurt I'm not responsible. They signed if they didn't I would of not used them. It's covering my ass I am capable of doing the work my self but it helps to get jobs done faster with help. My helpers work when they want I don't make them work its their choice


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

With that kind of deal I would be better off flipping burgers than working for you because there is no benefits at all not even workers com. You profited close to 100k your first year after you pay yourself and your helpers are starving with that cheap pay.

Seems you would be better off just hiring them on and providing benefits. I bet you would get more work out of them if they felt more secure about the job.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Straight from the IRS website:



> A sole proprietor is someone who *owns an unincorporated business* by himself or herself.


Then you:


> These guys have no education other than high school they can quit any time but where will they work fast food jobs r very hard to find and the ones out there don't pay ****.


Does everyone of your help own a business? It sure doesn't sound like it. You said you have copies of their Social Security cards. Why? The only reason to have a copy is when they filled out an I-9 (as an employee). They should have filled out a W9 and instead of using their SS#, they should have given you a FEIN number. 



> I had two employees I let go then had two ready to work and *I pay them good*..........*I pay 575* by check each week.....That's why I'm allowed to *pay them descent*


I just did a little bid of math and 575 per week as an IC equals $6.44 as an employee according to my figures from my payroll chick.



> I have a tax accountant...... I have a accountant that's been doing my taxes for years and talked about it before I even started working for my self.


Yet you're sticking to your guns believing one guy when lots of guys are telling you he is wrong. If it was legal, we'd all be doing it.



> When u subcontract ( work for ur self) u get to claim mileage and its 55 cents a mile for deduction so if u traveled 10,000 miles that a $ 5,500 the IRS looks as tax u payed n then if they have dependent a that's $3,500 on each dependent up to three so both my guys have dependent and will get a refund. That's a fact


Not a fact. 1st of all, if you claim auto expenses, you can either go actual cost or mileage, and if you use more than a certain number of vehicles, then you are limited to actual costs only. 2nd of all, the mileage rate is $0.555 per mile for tax year 2012.



> I have to pay my wages from last job 68,000 a year


Something that hasn't been brought up. That may be what you earned, but that equates to about $90k of labor burden from your old employer. You just took a cut in pay.



> About Saywhat16 What is your electrical related field/trade:Industrial, and residential *electrician*LocationIllinois


I don't know about you, but I am very proud of what I accomplished. When someone asks me what I do for a living, I say "I am an Electrical Contractor".


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Like I said this is my first year I didn't now what to expect. This year I will change how I pay these guys they knew from the start and they make more than they would flipping burgers. They also get 55 cents to the mile that they drove to job sites which gives them a income tax refund. U want to complain about paying complain to ur government for taking jobs to other country's cause a$$ like u think u should make more than what ur worth. U must work for someone that don't pay u well cause u sound upset lol


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

troll........................


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> Like I said this is my first year I didn't now what to expect. This year I will change how I pay these guys they knew from the start and they make more than they would flipping burgers.


No, they would make $8.25 an hour flipping burgers. You're paying them the equivalent of around $6.44 per hour.



> They also get 55 cents to the mile that they drove to job sites which gives them a income tax refund.


I like your thinking. When I hire an office chick, I am going to find a gal with at least 3 kids. That way with the dependent deductions and EIC I can get away with paying her $3.50 a hour. She won't get much from me, but she'll get a refund.



> U want to complain about paying complain to ur government for taking jobs to other country's cause a$$ like u think u should make more than what ur worth.


Actually, I think I will complain to you. I think I am worth a 7 figure salary, but, unfortunately I must settle with a 6 figure salary because I have to compete with illegal contractors whose labor burden is $14.38 an hour rather than my labor burden of at least $40 an hour (if I had employees).



> U must work for someone that don't pay u well cause u sound upset lol


No, I work for many people and they all pay me well. I have a name for them. I call them customers. And I am not the one who sounds upset.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Ur not very good at math cause $575/ 40 hours equals $14.35 where do u get $6 a hour from that


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> Ur not very good at math cause $575/ 40 hours equals $14.35 where do u get $6 a hour from that


Because they have to pay their own taxes instead of you. I am not talking federal and state income taxes, I am talking payroll taxes. Labor burden - look it up.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Saywhat16 said:


> Like I said this is my first year I didn't now what to expect. This year I will change how I pay these guys they knew from the start and they make more than they would flipping burgers. They also get 55 cents to the mile that they drove to job sites which gives them a income tax refund. U want to complain about paying complain to ur government for taking jobs to other country's cause a$$ like u think u should make more than what ur worth. U must work for someone that don't pay u well cause u sound upset lol


Pay well I would not even get out of bed for a job like that because there is no way I could justify paying all my own expenses for 575 a week.

Figure about 150 taxes a week they would have to drive a lot of miles every week to claim enough on their taxes to equal $150 every week just so they get a return.

They have to have a registered business to claim mileage on their taxes. The only way they can claim mileage as an individual is that they have to travel out of their work area during work hours but that would not work since they are not an employee they are a private business owner.

So what you have is sub contractor working for you that is unlicensed and uninsured and is being paid under their name and not their business name because they do not own a business.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Labor burden taxes I pay as a company it doesn't refer to the other guys


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Saywhat16 said:


> Ur not very good at math cause $575/ 40 hours equals $14.35 where do u get $6 a hour from that



They say it costs close to twice what you are paying an employee in wages or more due to all the expenses the employer has. You are paying them 14.35 but if you think about it you are paying them less than half that after they pay their own expenses.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Saywhat16 said:


> Labor burden taxes I pay as a company it doesn't refer to the other guys


The only labour burden you have is from your salary. subs will have to pay their own.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Well I guess I will find out here next week when I turn n all my paper work. Call me a greedy ass. Better yet I should get into politics so I can screw every one. Every man for them selves this is what this country is about anyway.


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

Sweet zombie jesus.

You should take a business class, and take an english class while you're at the community college.

People like you give the trades a bad image.

How stupid are the people working for you?

I dont know how it goes down in the U.S., but here in Canada you cant hold an employee financially responsible for damages. Even if you make them sign a contract saying otherwise.

You are the scum of employers, acting like you are saving these people when really you are trying to screw them as best you can to save a couple bucks.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm going to chime in here. Not that I take the OP very serious.

Even if you have an accountant, you are not protected. The IRS is going to go after YOU. They can and HAVE gone after companies that 1099 employees and call them sub contractors. I know of companies that got hit for back taxes, penalties and interest. NO company could recover from that type of tax burden. But do as you wish. You may get away with this for 10 years, 20 years, but someday you will get caught. The IRS is cracking down on companies that operate this way. 

As far as considering your employess as subcontractors I am not sure how it works in your state, but in NC, if they are not licensed electrical contractors, that is considered aiding and abetting an unlicensed contractor. You can and will lose your license for that type of thing.

About 15 years ago when I started in this trade I was working for my brother in law. His accountant gave him some very bad advice such as what you are doing now. A jealous electrical contractor caught wind of the 1099 pay route and reported him. He almost lost his license and way of life because of that. Do you think anyone went after the accountant? 

Do as you choose, but realize that everyone here has given you good advice. You do what you want with that.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

drspec said:


> I'm going to chime in here. Not that I take the OP very serious.
> 
> Even if you have an accountant, you are not protected. The IRS is going to go after YOU. They can and HAVE gone after companies that 1099 employees and call them sub contractors. I know of companies that got hit for back taxes, penalties and interest. NO company could recover from that type of tax burden. But do as you wish. You may get away with this for 10 years, 20 years, but someday you will get caught. The IRS is cracking down on companies that operate this way.
> 
> ...



I agree the lawyer and accountant is just doing what you want they will come after you not your lawyer or accountant. But your lawyer will be the only one that profits from this if something does happen and he/she has to represent you.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Saywhat16 said:


> I hire them as sub contractors and they r allowed to work under my electrical licsense as long as I over see there work.


Illinois is a no license state. 
How can your employees, work under something you might not have?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Illinois is a no license state.
> How can your employees, work under something you might not have?


They're not _employees_!

They're_ Independent Contractors_! Saywhat16 1099's 'em... therefore they're not employees.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

480sparky said:


> They're not employees!
> 
> They're Independent Contractors! Saywhat16 1099's 'em... therefore they're not employees.


Ya, I read all that before I posted..
I'm sue if you asked the"workers" who their employer is they won't say they are self employed.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Saywhat16 said:


> U don't like working for the man then grow a set and start working for ur self.


Actually I do have my own company, and I know how to spell full words- without the need for caps lock like a 5 year old.

Welcome- from Canada by the way.


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## Copper 0/2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Hi every one  I'm new to this site and read the threads on this saywhat16 post. Illinois does have a no license state only in certain counties and they allow this, but inspectors r down to the T on the work they do. As what little I now about how he is taxing his ( so called helpers ) employees to 1099-misc I believe they have to claim them selves as independent contractors. I'm guessing they must be in this country illegally lol and if so these guys will work for almost nothing. If it was me I would these guys half of 575. When it comes to taxes he won't her from them I'm sure of that. The profit he claims the IRS will take it all lol


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

Welcome to combat....oops the forum


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

parnellelectric said:


> troll........................


:thumbsup: And one that needs spell check!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Copper 0/2 said:


> Hi every one  I'm new to this site and read the threads on this saywhat16 post. Illinois does have a no license state only in certain counties and they allow this, but inspectors r down to the T on the work they do.......


It's not a state or AHJ or even an inspection issue. It's a _federal tax law_ issue.




Copper 0/2 said:


> .......As what little I now about how he is taxing his ( so called helpers ) employees to 1099-misc I believe they have to claim them selves as independent contractors.......


They (or the OP) can _claim_ to be whatever they want to be. A doughnut, a space ship, a ballerina. The IRS's determination is the only one that will matter.


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## Copper 0/2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Yeah he might be better off taking the hit and claimed he worked alone.


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Well just n case u guys were wondering about how I 1099 my self employed workers and got away with it and IRS was fine with 1099. They r independent contractor, and yes they pay all taxes them selves. So I took to heart what every one had to say so since the company made a very good profit I gave a generous bonus to help them with taxes. Since we did good and we r growing even more I gave them $2 and hour extra set It up for W2 but not insurance yet ( does any one now of a decent insurance company that won't rap u?) and bought a truck for my now employees to get back and forth to work. So I'm learning and trying to do the right thing. Learned a lot about taxes with running a company and appreciate most of ur guys input was never trying to b a **** was just frustrated so sorry if I offended any one. But some advice I got was wrong it all worked out just fine. Something some guys needed to understand is I needed to make money the first year so I could do the right thing. My employees love working for me and they r doing great work. Next year if we do good again and it's looking positive ill start giving some retirement plans. So the ones who downed talked me u can kiss my ass. Word of Mouth been getting me a lot of jobs cause we do great work and no complaints. Got my commercial liscence beginning of this year and already getting jobs that's pissing the union off ( which before to long they won't be around thanks to Obama ). If any one looking for a job I need someone that can run a crew and is a journeyman. Send me private message and number we can talk. Benifits will be the same as mine and pay will be for your knowledge and experience. I believe a happy employee makes a company grow. Thanks for reading Saywhat16 out


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## Saywhat16 (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh yeah I forgot I have a family member who works for the IRS and read all these post. He laughed at the ones that said red flag written all over it did nothing illegal. I think I just pissed the ones off that feel offended about how I was able to bid cheaper cause I didn't have over head well I do now and my price is not cheap ecspecially on commercial for some reason they like the higher bids go figure.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

wow.


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## Copper 0/2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Ur right saywhat it's not illegal u did what u had to do to start a company. Sounds like your guys will appreciate what u did in the long run. I think some of the guys where confused on what u where trying to say. We r electricians not accountants. I do now 1099 is a common practice or there wouldn't b a form for it. And u do need a SSN to 1099. Not every one on here runs a company so they don't now the stress of it and hours we put n. u did right brother by helping them pay some of there tax. People don't understand that millions r out of jobs and u helped others make a living no matter how u did it. I read all the post on this and ask my accountant also he said u guys r electricians and I wouldn't tell u how to wire a home so don't give advice on how taxes can b done cause there r 1000s of tax laws. 2 things u don't ask 1- pricing 2- don't put your buisness on here unless it n electrical Q or u will get ****** answer from non tax accountants. Good luck on your jobs n 2013


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Some of you guys should take a high school class on punctuation, sentence structure and paragraphs. It may help you more than you know in your business.


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## Copper 0/2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Who's worried about grammar on this forum. It's not an English class.


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## Copper 0/2 (Jan 19, 2013)

I believe that's the secretary's job. Little do u know short hand is going to be the new thing. My grammar sucks but I don't care. If I wanted to be a writer I would have focused on English. But I did some how collect credits for 101 & 102 English with A's


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## Copper 0/2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Even in the military they could care less about grammar.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Copper 0/2 said:


> Even in the military they could care less about grammar.


Well yea, can't have critical thinking in the military. They mostly want followers and just a few leaders. The more uneducated gun ho the followers are the better.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Copper 0/2 said:


> I believe that's the secretary's job. Little do u know short hand is going to be the new thing. My grammar sucks but I don't care. If I wanted to be a writer I would have focused on English. But I did some how collect credits for 101 & 102 English with A's


I'm curious, why did you think my post was addressed to you?


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

This thread is Cletis.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Saywhat16 said:


> Well just n case u guys were wondering about how I 1099 my self employed workers and got away with it and IRS was fine with 1099. They r independent contractor, and yes they pay all taxes them selves. So I took to heart what every one had to say so since the company made a very good profit I gave a generous bonus to help them with taxes. Since we did good and we r growing even more I gave them $2 and hour extra set It up for W2 but not insurance yet ( does any one now of a decent insurance company that won't rap u?) and bought a truck for my now employees to get back and forth to work. So I'm learning and trying to do the right thing. Learned a lot about taxes with running a company and appreciate most of ur guys input was never trying to b a **** was just frustrated so sorry if I offended any one. But some advice I got was wrong it all worked out just fine. Something some guys needed to understand is I needed to make money the first year so I could do the right thing. My employees love working for me and they r doing great work. Next year if we do good again and it's looking positive ill start giving some retirement plans. So the ones who downed talked me u can kiss my ass. Word of Mouth been getting me a lot of jobs cause we do great work and no complaints. Got my commercial liscence beginning of this year and already getting jobs that's pissing the union off ( which before to long they won't be around thanks to Obama ). If any one looking for a job I need someone that can run a crew and is a journeyman. Send me private message and number we can talk. Benifits will be the same as mine and pay will be for your knowledge and experience. I believe a happy employee makes a company grow. Thanks for reading Saywhat16 out



Where did you get your license?


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## foothillselectrical (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow, thats about all I can say. Looks like a couple more guys just learned how to intall a receptacle and started an electrical business! I would hate to be their insurance company, but I would love to be their lawyer.


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## Cypress2000 (Jun 26, 2011)

I know of a few ECs who go the 1099 route with their employees. Yes........ employees. Good luck to them when one of these employees gets pissed off and realizes that it isn't such a good deal for him/her after all and the "boss" is saving a ton of money and breaking lots of laws in the process.

When "1099 John" gets hurt on the job and cannot work, he WILL be looking for a "payday" from someone. He WILL get an attorney and he they WILL contact the IRS, the Labor Board and any other agency that WILL get them that money. And that money WILL come from the business that improperly classified that employee as a subcontractor.

The IRS does NOT screw around with companies that screw with their payroll taxes. There are no payment plans or grace periods or deals made like with income taxes. 

I thought about 1099ing people for about 30 seconds when I first started up in 2000. I realized I had employees and that I had damn well better classify them as such. I got a payroll company to handle the details of all my W2 employees. I pay my taxes ( I don't like it any more than the next person) and sleep well each night. When I have to fire an employee, there is no worry about what they might do for a "payday or payback" on my dime other than go collect unemployment and talk crap.


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