# The MWBC and 210.4(B) thing.



## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm currently doing a remodel at the airport which was built in the 80's. The place is loaded with existing MWBC's that I'm not touching but am adding handle ties to. This involved moving some circuits around so the breakers would be next to each other.

Also it has changed the way I label my 1900 blanks. I used to just put panel and circuit numbers on them. Now...


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Post of the day! :thumbup:


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

but ..... couldn't _Cletis_ write "I'm not Cletis", on his hand?


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I'm currently doing a remodel at the airport which was built in the 80's...


Funny 
but I thought all your pictures were required to have an open trench in them.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

BryanMD said:


> Funny
> but I thought all your pictures were required to have an open trench in them.


Doing a slab for a club next week. (weather is perfect for diggin here:thumbsup


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

BryanMD said:


> Funny
> but I thought all your pictures were required to have an open trench in them.



But sadly no black guy looking up at the camera smiling.....Hope you are doing well Al. :thumbsup:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Jesus, don't start labeling boxes like that. You're only gonna give the Code Panels bad ideas.

-John


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

so....4 cir handle tie?

~CS~


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

News flash.......... circ. 21 isn't next to 17.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*...*




He forgot the smiley face...couldn't have been me


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*...*

and his arms are too hairy and he writes too neat.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Cletis said:


> and his arms are too hairy and he writes too neat.


His arms are too hairy and he can _write_. :whistling2: :jester:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> News flash.......... circ. 21 isn't next to 17.


Smarty...  I will take a guess that it is 13, 15, 17 are the mwbc and 22 0r 21 is in the box also.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

And now we can presume he is right handed also-- . How many people are going to wear PPE for those wires-- Let me guess-- NONE


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Step back. Here is how its done.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Who the heck is Iyam C. Letis?

-John


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Big John said:


> Who the heck is Iyam C. Letis?
> 
> -John


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> News flash.......... circ. 21 isn't next to 17.


indeed not

nomeclature isn't always universally apparent, eh?

~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Big John said:


> Who the heck is Iyam C. Letis?
> 
> -John


 
Somebody with a 1.5" pointer finger


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Doesn't 210.4 kick up to 215?

~CS~


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Feeders? What am I missing here Steve?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Feeders? What am I missing here Steve?


probably not a thing Chris, there was a code debate on handle ties iirc, went back/forth a few code cycles

not that i can find it now (very frustrated!)

s*cks being an unsubtaintiated crummedgeon....

~CS~


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> s*cks being an unsubtaintiated crummedgeon....
> 
> ~CS~


At the very least you have a cool font.:whistling2:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

wel thanx...

so did ya find the handle ties? 

~CS~


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> wel thanx...
> 
> so did ya find the handle ties?
> 
> ~CS~


Yup, $3.80 for 5. Ordered 20. 15 to use and 5 to lose.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

that's a whole lot cheaper that 3ph brkrs by gawd

do they make them for e-frame size brkrs too?

~CS~


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Unqualified persons won't know what MWBC stands for. Besides that, it has been required for 100 years that only qualified personnel work on circuits, but it has yet to stop the hacks.:no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> Unqualified persons won't know what MWBC stands for........


May We Be Charred.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> that's a whole lot cheaper that 3ph brkrs by gawd


Yeah, bolt-in $100, couple handle ties, 80¢.




> do they make them for e-frame size brkrs too?


 Don't know.:001_huh:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Step back. Here is how its done.



Chincey Meter.

And for the RECORD. I Miss Al and the open trench. (C Kennedy)


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I'm currently doing a remodel at the airport which was built in the 80's. The place is loaded with existing MWBC's that I'm not touching but am adding handle ties to. This involved moving some circuits around so the breakers would be next to each other.
> 
> Also it has changed the way I label my 1900 blanks. I used to just put panel and circuit numbers on them. Now...


Chris,
I like that bushing on that pipe with the two red wire coming out of it.:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Chris,
> I like that bushing on that pipe with the two red wire coming out of it.:thumbsup:


Fire alarm.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Cletis said:


> and his arms are too hairy and he writes too neat.


So you haven't gone through pooberty yet, eh? :laughing::laughing:


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

That should be the rule for any pic that gets posted here. 

Put your hand in it and write "I am not Cletis." Sort of like the Peter D rule, the Cletis rule. 

That's classic. :laughing:


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## Roger. (Dec 18, 2011)

Since the job was put in in the 80's and you are not touching the MWBC's, why are you having to put handle ties on an existing installation?

Roger


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> This involved moving some circuits around so the breakers would be next to each other


 
i would think this validates $.80 handle ties......

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> i would think this validates $.80 handle ties......
> 
> ~CS~


Forgetting the recent handle tie requirement there is no reason or NEC requirement for them to be side by side. I often landed them all over the panel.

I would look at the prints, the circuit numbers would be specified by the EE so I would pick groups of three to run MWBC homeruns to.


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## Roger. (Dec 18, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Forgetting the recent handle tie requirement there is no reason or NEC requirement for them to be side by side. I often landed them all over the panel.


Exactly.

Roger


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

bbq said:


> . I often landed them all over the panel.


110.12

&

ansi-neca 1-2010

~cs~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> 110.12
> 
> &
> 
> ...


:lol::lol:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

advocating _hack_manship in one thread , while demonizing hacks in others this a.m. BBQ?

~CS~


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

chris i know you didnt fill that box.....but don't ya love it...box fill IMO is the most abused section of the code....:laughing: stuff'em and cover'em...:laughing:


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Roger. said:


> Since the job was put in in the 80's and you are not touching the MWBC's, why are you having to put handle ties on an existing installation?
> 
> Roger


Long story, but we got payed to do it.:thumbsup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

is there a problem selling code updates?

~CS~


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