# What I was told about Klein Quality



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I have looked at the new items that Klein is offering and it seems that the most of them *come from China*. I just put them back.
> 
> LC
> 
> Think Listen Solve


 Are you serious? Is this true? Are you talking hand tools, specifically?

Well, we will see if they've fixed their problems.

I can tell you I'm not buying any Klein tool made in China! :no:

They're certainly not going to solve any 'server', or quality issues by outsourcing production overseas. 

...unless quality declining is what they are considering as 'fixed' :whistling2:


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Do you have any other info that says Klein is making tools in China?

I could be wrong, but Im sure those tools are still made in the USA


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Hey all that Chinese sheetrock has worked out REAL well, why not the tools?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I went to the Klein website. It doesn't say anything about all tools being made in the US, so I'm thinking maybe you are right. Of course, on their catalog there is a US flag and it shows a pair of linesman's that shows the made in USA logo. As far as I can see, the latest info on the website is from 2006 (?). Anyhow, if their stuff was all made in US you can bet they would say that all over the site, so I'm thinking that they are outsourcing to stay competitive (just a guess tho)
http://www.kleintools.com/ToolCatalog/PDFs/CoverCatalog-Front.pdf

this website says some of klein's stuff is not made in US: http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/tools.html


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I know for a fact that the new level is (that is the one that is solid aluminum) the EMT cutter the voltage tester (proximity type) and several of their telcom tools are. Go to Home Depot and look at the Klein display and see for yourself. It is the most but not all of the tools that came out in the last year or so. If it does not have the American Flag on it you have found it.
Saw a Hilti small hammer drill (pistol grip type) at a trade show last month MADE IN CHINA.
I remember the first Hilti tools I saw back in the late 70's were made in aether Luxembourg or Lichtenstein but at least by free people.

LC

Think Listen Solve


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

It's very simple. If you see an American flag on the packaging of a Klein tool there's a good chance it's not made in the US. If it says Made in USA, good chance it's made here.
Many, many of their tools have the flag but guess what, no made in USA.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Interesting comment 
This happened several years ago I was looking at something that had the made in USA logo and I was reading the tag and it said made wherever a USA protectorate. 
LC 

Think Listen Solve


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> ...I was telling to him about what you all have said about Klein quality. He told me that about 12 to 18 month ago Klein had sever quality issues and that he has seen a lot of new broken tools he also was told by the Klein rep that they Klein has fixed the problem. The counter guy tells me know that return of broken tools has dropped off a lot from what it was...


This comment makes me wonder if the returns dropping off on new tools has anything to do with guys switching brands, and therefore not having new Klein tools to return?


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

The newer Klein tape measures say on the package "made in China". It really aggravated me that the Klein "150th Anniversary Edition" tape measure was made in China. I felt as if I had been slapped in the face after supporting Klein with my purchases for all these years. I still buy and use US made Klein tools mainly because Klein tries to sell tools to help the electric craft do our jobs more efficiently. Klein has had some of their products made by other companies for years, but these previously were other US companies. Klein is already selling a cheap grade of made in China pliers. No I won't buy these. For now, my "plan B" if Klein abandons the US manufacture of tools, is to switch to Channellock brand pliers. To the best of my knowledge Chanellock pliers are still US made. Their wrenches and screwdrivers are not though.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

The Klein voltage tester is a piece of junk.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Does anyone have a email address for klein so we can all make complaints about there tools being made in china?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MF Dagger said:


> The Klein voltage tester is a piece of junk.


I have never used one, but just from looking at them that is what I thought.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm going to mention it to the Klein rep when I see him. Sad we should have to tell them we don't use that made in China crap, they should know. I'm also going to email them.


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## Wingnut (Jan 31, 2010)

william1978 said:


> Does anyone have a email address for klein so we can all make complaints about there tools being made in china?


 
http://www.kleintools.com/about/contact2_english.html


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Wingnut said:


> http://www.kleintools.com/about/contact2_english.html


 I'm going to shoot them a email right now. Thanks.:thumbsup:


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I just sent them an email to.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

mattsilkwood said:


> I just sent them an email to.


 I have tried to send 2 emails and both have come back saying it can't be delivered.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

william1978 said:


> I have tried to send 2 emails and both have come back saying it can't be delivered.


Was your letter written in Chinese? :jester:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BP_redbear said:


> Was your letter written in Chinese? :jester:


 No, Maybe I should try that huh?:laughing:


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't know, but I believe that many Klein products are still made in USA.

It is tricky (and deceiving) how companies are using the US flag, and stamping their company's home US city and state on their products, leaving off the 'Made In' altogether.

Many older, vintage tools were stamped with city and state, actually. Not necessarily stating 'Made In'.

Nowadays, if it doesn't say 'Made In USA' or 'USA', I am skeptical.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BP_redbear said:


> I don't know, but I believe that many Klein products are still made in USA.
> 
> It is tricky (and deceiving) how companies are using the US flag, and stamping their company's home US city and state on their products, leaving off the 'Made In' altogether.
> 
> ...


AMP make some ridiculously priced crimpers, but I can confirm that they are all still made in the USA. When I need a crimp tool, I check AMP first, Burndy second, and Kearney third. They're all three made in the USA. AMP crimp tools have the finest tolerances, but they're hard to buy from. Kearney and Burndy are easier to buy from, but the tolerances are slightly more sloppy (but still well within spec). I like to consider tools as an investment.


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## qckrun (May 18, 2009)

After all these type of threads I think I am switching from Klein to Wiha and or Knipex. I havent had any problems with any of my klein tools, but most are almost 5 years old and have lasted a very long time obvisouly. But I am soon due for some new screwdrivers and I will be looking elsewhere for some now.

Now I just need to find some local places that carry Wiha and Knipex.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> I ...consider tools as an investment.


Here, here!!!

or is it 

"Hear. Hear" !!!

Anyway, I agree. That's why I spend so much time here on the 'TOOLS' board. I, too, consider tools as an investment. Accordingly, I strive to buy the best, highest quality tool that I can reasonably afford.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BP_redbear said:


> Here, here!!!
> 
> or is it
> 
> ...


They all wear out, eventually, but I appreciate tools that I can abuse without any special consequences. That's the reality of how tools are used. I think that more manufacturers should design tools with that in mind.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

heres a way to fix a problem with the klein quality. swith to ideal


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> heres a way to fix a problem with the klein quality. swith to ideal


I think SOME of Ideal's stuff is top-notch. Matter of fact, my current set of line pliers are Ideals (with Klein replacement grips, because Ideal's grips suck hind tit on a boar hog).


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> I think SOME of Ideal's stuff is top-notch. Matter of fact, my current set of line pliers are Ideals (with Klein replacement grips, because Ideal's grips suck hind tit on a boar hog).


 i use the screwdrivers and dipped handle pliers. i was eyeballing the premium pliers but dont want to spend 190 dollars on them


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> i use the screwdrivers and dipped handle pliers. i was eyeballing the premium pliers but dont want to spend 190 dollars on them


 
I have a pair for a while now and love them.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> i use the screwdrivers and dipped handle pliers. i was eyeballing the premium pliers but dont want to spend 190 dollars on them


I had a healthy coating of oil or grease on my hands when my Ideal line pliers were still pretty new, and the grips started to turn into "GOO" right in my hands. The very next time I was at the supply house, I got a pair of the Klein replacement grips and put them on my Ideal pliers.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Ive become a fan of Knipex linesman and *****. I also prefer Ideal screwdrivers and strippers. The Stanley Fat Max is my prefered tape measure.


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## Romex Butcher (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm using a pair of Ideal linesmans right now but they don't seem to have the leverage that the Klein ones do. I may grudgingly buy another set of Klein pliers for the leverage, not because they're good quality.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BP_redbear said:


> Here, here!!!
> 
> or is it
> 
> "Hear. Hear" !!!....



Try "Hear _Here_" !!
:blink:


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

kbsparky said:


> Try "Hear _Here_" !!
> :blink:


Ya know, kb...

I actually thought of that exact wording, just a little while ago!!! :yes:

"Hear Here!!!"


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Romex Butcher said:


> I'm using a pair of Ideal linesmans right now but they don't seem to have the leverage that the Klein ones do. I may grudgingly buy another set of Klein pliers for the leverage, not because they're good quality.


Knipex
Knipex
Knipex
!!!

Ask at yer local supply house, even if they have to order one in for ya.

Check www.aktoolsonline.com
or
www.chadstoolbox.com

for price comparison on Klein vs. Knipex on comparable models; head features, grip style.

I bet ya $5 you'll go Knipex!!! :yes:

(Unless your loyalty to US vs. Euro mfr. is that strong, or you need one now and Klein is all you can find that day).

Even if you have to compare, view online, then have one ordered in for you locally


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## Romex Butcher (Apr 12, 2010)

BP_redbear said:


> Knipex
> Knipex
> Knipex
> !!!
> ...


Are you on Knipex's payroll by any chance? 

Seriously though, they sell Knipex at Lowes now. I kinda like to get a feel for a pair of pliers before I use them so I won't buy something sight unseen online.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

I had a set of Ideal 1000V insulated US-made linemans pliers, and they got a chip in the blades, which I blame on myself for hammering on that side. The blades were *way* shorter than Klein or Knipex, also. And, there was a gap in the craw of the cutter where strands of conductor and jet line would get pinched and not cut. 

For $75 retail, Ideal could do *way* better! Shame! (They were a free demo from ACTool, a site sponsor, which I appreciated). Sold them on eBay.

Grips were too sticky, as far as dropping them in pockets and pouches go... Head was thinner and lighter. Just didn't have that 'Klein' traditional feel...

*bduerler* may kick my ass for that review of Ideal...

My set of Insulated 09 06 240 Knipex beat Ideal in price, features, durability, feel, and use by a mile (or 1.5 km) :jester:

I may give Channellock a chance... although I have heard they are just like the Ideals. Maybe Channy makes them for Ideal.

Just my $.03. (inflation) :shifty:

P.S. I don't consider Klein's lineman pliers a bad choice, although I have had their J-man grips break loose and require epoxying in place. I beat the sh*t out of my Kleins and they are doing fine. (I'm kinda doing a casual study of Klein vs. Knipex). The only thing that I 'baby' are the 1000V Insulated grips on my Knipexes. They don't go in ditches, and such...


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I have noticed there is no "break in" for knipex. I always hated getting a new pair of kleins, for about 3 months they will wear you out. 

All of my knipex will fall open right out of the package.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Romex Butcher said:


> Are you on Knipex's payroll by any chance?


Are you PeterD by any chance. :yes::yes:


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## Romex Butcher (Apr 12, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Are you PeterD by any chance. :yes::yes:



Why yes I am. :yes:

PS. You forgot a question mark. :jester:


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Romex Butcher said:


> Are you on Knipex's payroll by any chance?


Don't I wish this to be true... I should be compensated for all the free advertising that I give them... I am just interested in sharing my experience and overall positive experience with my use of Knipex products. I gots a lot of 'em!



Romex Butcher said:


> Seriously though, they sell Knipex at Lowes now. I kinda like to get a feel for a pair of pliers before I use them so I won't buy something sight unseen online.


I understand you there, on that point. Just watch out at the big box stores. Know the price that you should expect to see.

bp out.


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## Romex Butcher (Apr 12, 2010)

BP_redbear said:


> I understand you there, on that point. Just watch out at the big box stores. Know the price that you should expect to see.
> 
> bp out.


Will do. I may just "test drive" them at the store and look for a better price online once I find the right model. :thumbsup:


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## Chevyman30571 (Jan 30, 2009)

I just picked up a set of klein nut drivers and they say on the handle made in U.S. and it did have the American flag on it. So i don't know about the hand tools. Maybe other things.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

Chevyman30571 said:


> I just picked up a set of klein nut drivers and they say on the handle made in U.S. and it did have the American flag on it. So i don't know about the hand tools. Maybe other things.


a trick ive seen. the handle might be made in the us... but not everything else, and its probably assembled elsewhere


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## Voltage Hazard (Aug 10, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> I don't know, but I believe that many Klein products are still made in USA.
> 
> It is tricky (and deceiving) how companies are using the US flag, and stamping their company's home US city and state on their products, leaving off the 'Made In' altogether.
> 
> ...


I think the WORST company for doing this is Ideal. When I look at Ideal tools at Lowes, I can find a bunch of tools where the package says "Made In China", but the tool itself is simply stamped with "Sycamore, IL". The tool does not say "Made In", just "Sycamore, IL". So, after you throw away the package that says "Made In China", all you see on the tool is the "Sycamore, IL", and most users will assume the tool is made there.

Go to Lowes and check it out. You will be very surprised.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

We should start a list of tools that are NOT made in China.

I bet it would be a very short list....


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Romex Butcher said:


> I'm using a pair of Ideal linesmans right now but they don't seem to have the leverage that the Klein ones do. I may grudgingly buy another set of Klein pliers for the leverage, not because they're good quality.


 how much leverage do you need? i dont have any problem with my pliers. i cut screws and nails with them too


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

well bp i wont kick your ass over that lol knipex is a good brand. as long as you like your hammer i can live with that review


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> I had a set of Ideal 1000V insulated US-made linemans pliers, and they got a chip in the blades, which I blame on myself for hammering on that side. The blades were *way* shorter than Klein or Knipex, also. And, there was a gap in the craw of the cutter where strands of conductor and jet line would get pinched and not cut.
> 
> For $75 retail, Ideal could do *way* better! Shame! (They were a free demo from ACTool, a site sponsor, which I appreciated). Sold them on eBay.
> 
> ...


well in terms of beatin with them idk how they react i use a pair of craftsman to destroy:thumbup: but i do like the feel of ideals compared to klein the ideals just seem to fit my hand better than klein does. and i like the ideal smart grips and there dipped grips better than kleins


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

*yep*



Voltage Hazard said:


> I think the WORST company for doing this is Ideal. When I look at Ideal tools at Lowes, I can find a bunch of tools where the package says "Made In China", but the tool itself is simply stamped with "Sycamore, IL". The tool does not say "Made In", just "Sycamore, IL". So, after you throw away the package that says "Made In China", all you see on the tool is the "Sycamore, IL", and most users will assume the tool is made there.
> 
> Go to Lowes and check it out. You will be very surprised.


Yeah, that's kinda (exactly) what I'm sayin'. you get it, too.

Maybe we need to lobby Congress to pass a 'MADE IN' law...:thumbsup:

It's just my observation and opinion, but I believe that it's either a US import law, or a Chinese export law, or just a Chinese policy that EVERYTHING made in China bear the 'MADE IN CHINA' statement, from toys to tools, electronics, dishes, clothes, 98% of Wal-Mart, etc.. Anyone else notice or believe this? (Or a combination of any or all of the things that I mentioned).

Like it's advertising by the Chinese gov't. saying "Look at our manufacturing capabilities." or the US just making sure that goods made in China (or outside US borders) be marked with country of origin.

I saw a tool today at out shop, bolt cutters, I believe, that said 'H.K. Porter, U.S.A. MADE IN USA'. (Not a new tool, either).


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

bduerler said:


> well bp i wont kick your ass over that lol knipex is a good brand. as long as you like your hammer i can live with that review


Oh, my *hammer*... _actual_ hammer...

Yeah, I thought you were referring to my lineman side-cutters as a hammer, lol! (which they certainly are, sometimes).

Yes, the IDEAL brand 35-210 18oz. electricians all-steel-handle hammer with rubber grip and anti-vibe feature (replacement for the 35-210 18oz. fiberglass handle hammer). I do like it. 

<It seems odd that a company would use the identical part number for a very different (although discontinued) item. What if they choose to produce them both, at some time in the future? Strange.>

The steel Ideal has a handle length that is more like an Estwing 20oz. ripping hammer versus the fiberglass Ideal which compares to a 16oz. Estwing.

Thanks again for the lead on the hammer. Next time you see yer bud in Beaumont at Wholesale Electric, tell him a job well done for me.

'All sedd 'n dunn', it's a little bit more than I would like to pay for a hammer. I also look to buy quality tools at a reasonable price, knowing that generally you don't get a well-made product for less (or the same price as) a cheap-Chinese-made-generic-crap-ola-tool.

Soon, I will take pictures of the two Ideal electrician hammer models side-by-side in a new thread for comparison.

bp out


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## KleinToolsCC (Dec 2, 2009)

*What Does "Made in USA" Mean to Klein Tools?*

What does "Made in USA" mean at Klein Tools? 

Klein Tools operates eight plants in the US: 
· Skokie, IL makes pliers, grips, fish tapes, and other tools. 

· Lincolnshire, IL makes screwdrivers and nut drivers. 

· Roselle, IL manufactures wire strippers, pump pliers and adjustable wrenches. 

· Elk Grove Village, IL produces tool forgings of high quality, proprietary tool steel. 

· Fort Smith, AR manufactures leather and canvas goods. 
· Bolivar, NY makes high quality scissors and other cutlery products. 

· Rockford, MI produces high quality plastic products.
· Cedar Rapids, IA manages worldwide distribution.



Klein Tools de Mexico has operated a plant in Mexico City since 1970. This plant produces products for the Mexican and Central American markets. A few tools that are made here are sold in the US, like our knockout punches, but for the most part Mexican made products are consumed in Mexico.
 


Klein Tools has never closed a US plant and outsourced manufacturing to other countries – and we have no plans to do so.
Klein Tools does sell some products that are made in other countries to our quality standards. For the most part, these are items that are simply not produced in the US any more – a good example is electronic products like multimeters.
So, you can rest assured that Klein Tools remains firmly committed to US manufacturing and continues to invest in the latest technologies for our US production facilities. 
Sincerely,
Klein Tools Corporate Communications


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I think KleinToolsCC is here to try to do damage control.


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

It seems they are here to stop the rumors from flying... like alot of stuff around here does......


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

KleinToolsCC said:


> Klein Tools operates eight plants in the US:
> Skokie, IL
> Lincolnshire, IL
> Roselle, IL
> ...


Glad to hear it. This is good.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

william1978 said:


> I think KleinToolsCC is here to try to do damage control.


Which is perfectly fine, as long as what they say is the truth.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

mattsilkwood said:


> I have noticed there is no "break in" for knipex. I always hated getting a new pair of kleins, for about 3 months they will wear you out.
> 
> All of my knipex will fall open right out of the package.


Exactly. They work perfect right out of the packaging. I will never use anything other than their 10 inch dikes ever again. I bought 1 pair and then lost them about a week later [doing some demo work] and went back to lowes and bought another $35 pair the next day. You WILL see the difference in quality almost immediately.

~Matt


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Innovative said:


> It seems they are here to stop the rumors from flying... like alot of stuff around here does......


I see no rumors - I honestly hate klein tools, thats not a rumor, thats the truth - especially since I have much better alternatives available to me.

Like I said in another post - there are 2 klein tools I will definitely buy again, but for the most part, their stuff is crap. My tool bag is turning into a big assortment of branded tools, each MFG has a few tools that I believe in. I cant seem to find any 1 mfg that has every tool that I like.

~Matt


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

The "9' standout" tape measure stands out approximately 7 1/2 feet if anyone was wondering.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I bought a pair of Klein "JW" gloves that were maid in asia. They sucked after one hour. 

I doubt that _gloves_ are "simply not produced in the USA anymore".

That Klein rep is full of it.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> That Klein rep is full of it.


 Tell us how you really feel.:laughing::laughing:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> You WILL see the difference in quality almost immediately.
> 
> ~Matt


This is the truth.

First thing I ever bought made by knipex was a pair of ***** and I was amazed. Still use them everyday on the job and still happy about the purchase.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Tell us how you really feel.:laughing::laughing:


HE'S FULL OF IT!
:laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> HE'S FULL OF IT!
> :laughing:


 :laughing::laughing:


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

OK, so he states that most stuff is still made in the U.S.A. 

But (and there's always a but) will he address the loss of quality? 

Or the lack of consistent warranty policy? 

When you have professional users of your product discussing the decline in 
quality on an internet forum, you have issues to address. 

I will give him this: He has Googled his product to find this thread. What is it they say about admitting you have a problem?


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

KleinToolsCC said:


> What does "Made in USA" mean at Klein Tools?
> 
> Klein Tools operates eight plants in the US:
> · Skokie, IL makes pliers, grips, fish tapes, and other tools.
> ...


no thanks i will take ideals laseredge line and all of there hammers and screwdrivers, nutdrivers and meters over anything klein has to offer because well kleins quality sucks as does your bull**** of a lifetime warranty, plus your data comm tools are a joke, ideal is way better in there and klein cant even touch ideals quality on there benders, drill bits, fishtapes and tape measures. hell none of kleins products come close to the great quality of Ideals. i am so pissed after reading all your bull**** i think im gonna go buy me some more ideal hand tools. i already own there full line of everything that involves hand tools but im gonna go buy more why because they are that much better of a product than the SH!T klein makes


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