# camera rough in ?



## sbrn33

I don't really do to much camera work but I am going to give it a shot. I need to rough in some offices with a drywall(double 5/8) ceiling. Should I just stub the wire out or will it be easier to put a box. I like the box idea but I don't want to screw my self at finish. 
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks


----------



## Hippie

Depends on the camera the dome type ones will mount to a box. I would just stup the wire out and cut in a box after if its needed


----------



## daveEM

sbrn33 said:


> I don't really do to much camera work but I am going to give it a shot. I need to rough in some offices with a *drywall(double 5/8) ceiling. *
> Thanks


I'm in Canada but the double drywall at 5/8 raises a flag for me. Fire Stop. I would do some checking on that about penetrating it.

A regular metal box is ok here but a pot light I need to build a double drywall enclosure maintaining the fire rating. 

I would not be destroying the ceiling while I fish in stuff.


----------



## Mshea

daveEM said:


> I'm in Canada but the double drywall at 5/8 raises a flag for me. Fire Stop. I would do some checking on that about penetrating it.
> 
> A regular metal box is ok here but a pot light I need to build a double drywall enclosure maintaining the fire rating.
> 
> I would not be destroying the ceiling while I fish in stuff.


A metal octagon box should be small enough to go into a rated cieling in Canada


----------



## sbrn33

I am not worried about the ceiling rating. Just about the camera mounting. 
Thanks for the replies. As of right now I may just mount a box.


----------



## B4T

Sometimes I cut in a old work jem box and use a white plate with a 3/8" hole...

You can buy the plates with just a hole and uni-bit it till the size is wide enough for the BNC connector to fit through....


----------



## B4T

I have bought from this company before.. they have a great selection and Tech Support in English you can understand...

If you are going to get into CCTV... I suggest you get power supply couplings that are either male or female ends... 

http://www.2mcctv.com/

http://www.2mcctv.com/power-leads/


----------



## CADPoint

Double 5/8" wall would be a fire rated wall around here.

I would use a Deep cut in box (single gang) and 1/2" flex to above ceiling and train it out of wall(if sheet rock not up)


----------



## walkerj

CADPoint said:


> Double 5/8" wall would be a fire rated wall around here.
> 
> I would use a Deep cut in box (single gang) and 1/2" flex to above ceiling and train it out of wall(if sheet rock not up)


If it is a rated assembly the opening cannot be greater than 16"sq and the box must be mounted to framing.


----------



## Cow

I never do any camera work so I'm curious, what do you run for wire if you don't know what kind of camera?


----------



## CADPoint

If this is truely a security issues it should be well defined if not detailed for the required obtainable information which should be available from somebody.

I've been burned on security and camera's when the over seer didn't realize that security is not on a power plan. The old what is this never registered!

Ask Questions, in the end; it's more of going and finding out what the clients application is then what you think they might need, beleive me!


----------



## Wired4Life10

I personally would do a box. It's clean assuming you don't use crap from newegg, tiger direct, or costco. Get real stuff like Speco, Pelco, Axis, or at least Digital Watchdog or Honeywell. Don't use the true consumer stuff. Make sure to use a somewhat known brand. Most of those domes will mount to a single gang box.


----------



## chewy

RJ45 plug on the the cable then drywall screw the camera to the ceiling, they dont weigh much. Get out of there and get paid.


----------



## sbrn33

Cow said:


> I never do any camera work so I'm curious, what do you run for wire if you don't know what kind of camera?[/QU
> 
> I am going to run a siamese cable. RG59 and 18-2 for power. I assume that will do anything I need.


----------



## sbrn33

Wired4Life10 said:


> I personally would do a box. It's clean assuming you don't use crap from newegg, tiger direct, or costco. Get real stuff like Speco, Pelco, Axis, or at least Digital Watchdog or Honeywell. Don't use the true consumer stuff. Make sure to use a somewhat known brand. Most of those domes will mount to a single gang box.


I was thinking of a 4 square with round p ring.???


----------



## Fredman

sbrn33 said:


> Cow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never do any camera work so I'm curious, what do you run for wire if you don't know what kind of camera?[/QU
> 
> I am going to run a siamese cable. RG59 and 18-2 for power. I assume that will do anything I need.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would throw 5 or 6 cats in with each run. Just to be sure.
> :laughing:
Click to expand...


----------



## sbrn33

I have run wires for a few banks and they always made me use the siamese cable. The cat 5 thing to me is new.


----------



## B4T

sbrn33 said:


> I have run wires for a few banks and they always made me use the siamese cable. The cat 5 thing to me is new.


I would buy the cameras first or check the specs before running wire..

Running both types is a waste of time and working blind is foolish..


----------



## CTshockhazard

Arlington, if you just want to stub for now:

FL430 Cam-Light box










8161TR Security camera mounting box


----------



## sbrn33

B4T said:


> I would buy the cameras first or check the specs before running wire..
> 
> Running both types is a waste of time and working blind is foolish..


It is for the future...


----------



## pudge565

sbrn33 said:


> I have run wires for a few banks and they always made me use the siamese cable. The cat 5 thing to me is new.


The cat5 cameras are nice. Its hard to say what to run unless they tell you what they plan to install. If they want remote access to cameras bet on an ethernet camera set up with cat5. I like POE cameras one less wire to run.


----------



## MisterCMK

B4T said:


> I have bought from this company before.. they have a great selection and Tech Support in English you can understand...
> 
> If you are going to get into CCTV... I suggest you get power supply couplings that are either male or female ends...
> 
> http://www.2mcctv.com/
> 
> http://www.2mcctv.com/power-leads/


If you are doing CCTV work don't buy **** cameras that need a barrel for the power...


----------



## B4T

MisterCMK said:


> If you are doing CCTV work don't buy **** cameras that need a barrel for the power...


Sometimes it can be customer supplied cameras...

The point is to have *ALL* the parts you might need to get the job done and get paid...

Investing $5.00 for leads that use a barrel connector is not a budget breaker....


----------



## LARMGUY

sbrn33 said:


> I am not worried about the ceiling rating. Just about the camera mounting.
> Thanks for the replies. As of right now I may just mount a box.


Just use firecaulk if they are worried about fire rating.

I use drywall screws and those HVAC insulation hold on disks above the sheetrock.
The screws will NOT loosen up.


----------



## Wired4Life10

Just run cat5e Siamese. You can buy it from ADI. They normally stock 18/4 I believe though. Run Siamese for power and cat with baluns for video. If they want PoE, cat is there.


----------



## five.five-six

Cow said:


> I never do any camera work so I'm curious, what do you run for wire if you don't know what kind of camera?


 Siamesewire + a cat5, it they end up wanting a PTZ camera though, you can have some real problems.


----------



## Wired4Life10

five.five-six said:


> Siamesewire + a cat5, it they end up wanting a PTZ camera though, you can have some real problems.


Not really. It all works out well because another pair of the cat5e can be used for ptz


----------



## pudge565

Wired4Life10 said:


> Not really. It all works out well because another pair of the cat5e can be used for ptz


Exactly, the cat5 only uses two pairs for communications that leaves a pair for POE and a pair for the PTZ.


----------



## Wired4Life10

pudge565 said:


> Exactly, the cat5 only uses two pairs for communications that leaves a pair for POE and a pair for the PTZ.


PoE cameras don't need a PTZ pair. It's controlled via IP. I was saying that if he runs cat5e with baluns for analog, another pair can be used for PTZ if needed. Would still want separate power of either a 16/4-Cat5e combo, or just a separate 18/2 and Cat5e.


----------



## MHElectric

Fredman said:


> sbrn33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would throw 5 or 6 cats in with each run. Just to be sure.
> :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sbrn33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have run wires for a few banks and they always made me use the siamese cable. The cat 5 thing to me is new.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did 15 cameras at a nursing facility about 8 months ago, we ran Cat V. But this wasn't New construction, it was an existing building. Its just like hooking up a double phone Jack, the camera plugs into the phone Jack, and then it lands on the patch panel. The path panel part was a little interesting, one of their techs had to tell us a designed spot to punch everything down at.
> 
> As far as your OP, I'd land it in a box with plenty of slack.
Click to expand...


----------



## Fredman

B4T said:


> I would buy the cameras first or check the specs before running wire..
> 
> Running both types is a waste of time and working blind is foolish..


Oh ok. just chuck in the 59/U and hope for the best. :laughing::no:

Not knowing brand would be problem. Completion date, customer expectations in that situa would drive me to throw in the cat. It's cheap


----------



## sbrn33

Screw it Pudge. Why don't you just come down and I will open a low volt division.


----------



## pudge565

sbrn33 said:


> Screw it Pudge. Why don't you just come down and I will open a low volt division.


Well hell with all this fiber work I've been doing I damn well could take networking on. Btw it would be over and mabe slightly up.


----------



## five.five-six

Wired4Life10 said:


> Not really. It all works out well because another pair of the cat5e can be used for ptz



Well, you can have problems. Most PTZ manufactures specify a max length of the power cable run. The reason being is that when the motors run it increases load and hence the voltage drop. On a POE PTZ, so long as you are using an 802.11AF switch, if you have this problem it is the manufactures problem.


----------



## Wired4Life10

five.five-six said:


> Well, you can have problems. Most PTZ manufactures specify a max length of the power cable run. The reason being is that when the motors run it increases load and hence the voltage drop. On a POE PTZ, so long as you are using an 802.11AF switch, if you have this problem it is the manufactures problem.


But I was specifying ip versus analog. There is a major difference. I did specify that if it's an ip cam, PTZ is handled by ip. If it's analog, just use another pair for PTZ with blue pair being video with baluns.


----------



## five.five-six

Wired4Life10 said:


> But I was specifying ip versus analog. There is a major difference. I did specify that if it's an ip cam, PTZ is handled by ip. If it's analog, just use another pair for PTZ with blue pair being video with baluns.


Yes, you are correct, in a IP PTZ camera there is no RS485 control. It is controlled by IP. On an analog PTZ camera, the cat5 can be used for your Pelco loop. The problem I was referring to is that Siamese wire has a 18 gauge power component and could cause a voltage drop problem over a reasonably short run.


----------

