# adding lights to a 2 wire circuit



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I think I know the correct answer but Ill put it out there anyway. Kitchen light fed with a 2 wire no ground. Customer wants to remove light and add 4 can lights. Can I add them or do I have to pull a ground wire or a new circuit to it? Code ref???


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

410.40 pretty much hoses you.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> 410.40 pretty much hoses you.


What is the code art that allows you to run a seperate ground? Would that apply to what I have?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

300.3 (b)(2).


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Thanks 480!:thumbup:


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

In all honesty, (call me a hack!), if I'm tapping into a metal j-box, that is flexxed in, Ill just drill and tap a ground screw hole in the box, and loop my ground wire around that screw.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

You can't extend that old cir. without it having a ground. From what you have already posted I think you already know that, but just passing it along.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SparkYZ said:


> In all honesty, (call me a hack!), if I'm tapping into a metal j-box, that is flexxed in, Ill just drill and tap a ground screw hole in the box, and loop my ground wire around that screw.



What's hack about it? As long as two threads make contact with the box, you're golden!


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> What's hack about it? As long as two threads make contact with the box, you're golden!


The fact that steel flex is not and was not an approved EGC. It works as one yeah but its not approved


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

SparkYZ said:


> The fact that steel flex is not and was not an approved EGC. It works as one yeah but its not approved


 You sure? Check 250.118


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I was talking about 2 wire romex in a metal box. I knew it had to be grounded but wanted to make sure. The panel is in a kitchen cabinet and will be hard to get a new circuit out of. Oh well it is what it is.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

william1978 said:


> You sure? Check 250.118



A proper fitting for grounding, would that be the older styled set screw flex connectors? Do the screw in ones work? And I'm sure these flex runs are more than 6'.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

SparkYZ said:


> A proper fitting for grounding, would that be the older styled set screw flex connectors? Do the screw in ones work? And I'm sure these flex runs are more than 6'.


 As long as the conn. are listed for grounding they should be fine. I agree with you the runs are probably longer than 6'.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

the most important thing i have learned on this web site is to do whats right even if the code doesn't make you,,,and providing a proper ground in a way that meets or exceeds the code is all you can do...:thumbup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

zen said:


> the most important thing i have learned on this web site is to do whats right even if the code doesn't make you,,,and providing a proper ground in a way that meets or exceeds the code is all you can do...:thumbup:


 
So does a PROPER ground mean you use a self tapper? :no:
I agree.


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, what do you do if the house is wired in old 2 wire romex and the customer wants to add a light to a circuit? Or flex, how far 
back do you go? So now one set of lights in the house is grounded per code. 

I have one of those now. Bath remodel, existing wired with flex, no ground. The bath I'm completely re-wiring with NM, taking homeruns back to the panel, but what about the other 10 circuits coming out of the panel? I just explained the code to the customer, and let them make the call.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

bauler said:


> Ok, what do you do if the house is wired in old 2 wire romex and the customer wants to add a light to a circuit? Or flex, how far
> back do you go? So now one set of lights in the house is grounded per code.
> 
> I have one of those now. Bath remodel, existing wired with flex, no ground. The bath I'm completely re-wiring with NM, taking homeruns back to the panel, but what about the other 10 circuits coming out of the panel? I just explained the code to the customer, and let them make the call.


 
The other 10 are "grandfathered" in and can stay. But if you add lights you either run a ground to them or pull new cicruits with a ground.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> The other 10 are "grandfathered" in and can stay. But if you add lights you either run a ground to them or pull new cicruits with a ground.


 Yep.:thumbsup:


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Yea, thats what I'm doing. But by explaining the problem to the customer I'm getting more work to replace some of the old wiring that is easliy accessible :thumbsup:. 

The big question I have is what to do as asked above. You have an old 2 wire system and the customer wants to add a light. Is that grandfathered in? I know outlets you can just use a GFI plug, but lights???


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

bauler said:


> Yea, thats what I'm doing. But by explaining the problem to the customer I'm getting more work to replace some of the old wiring that is easliy accessible :thumbsup:.
> 
> The big question I have is what to do as asked above. You have an old 2 wire system and the customer wants to add a light. Is that grandfathered in? I know outlets you can just use a GFI plug, but lights???


You have to run a seperate ground wire or pull a new homerun. Or put up a plastic fixture.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> So does a PROPER ground mean you use a self tapper? :no:
> I agree.


 ive been warned and told do not use a self tapper..i did one time and the inspector said dont ever do that again in his city...so we drill and tap or nut and bolt.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

zen said:


> ive been warned and told do not use a self tapper..i did one time and the inspector said dont ever do that again in his city...so we drill and tap or nut and bolt.


What's wrong with a self-tapping machine screw?


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it was discussed before, sheet metal screws no, wood screws ok. I think sometimes you need to follow the intent of the code. I see no problem with self tapping machine screws.


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> You have to run a seperate ground wire or pull a new homerun. Or put up a plastic fixture.


 
You have to runs grounds with the other wires.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

If you GFCI protected the circuit it would make it safe. Would it make it legal?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

220/221 said:


> If you GFCI protected the circuit it would make it safe. Would it make it legal?


Nope. The GFCI option only applies to receptacles, not lighting outlets.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

bauler said:


> You have to runs grounds with the other wires.


What other wires? The old ones not being extended are grandfathered in.


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