# Led vs T-8



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> This guy has low bay lighting 250w per fixture in his store and wants to change them out. I suggested 6 tube t-8's He's thinking led. Are these led's putting out the same lumen's per tube or ? I know the led's are expensive. I have little experience with them. Anybody have any experience on these led's vs. the t-8's?


I would go with T-5 ,HO's you will get more light from a four lamp fixture.

I do not know how the LED's would do in this case you should go and look at a job that has been done like that first.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Yeah, thanks I meant to say T-5. Damn now the title is all screwed up.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I wonder what the lumens output of the led would be compared to the t-5?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> I wonder what the lumens output of the led would be compared to the t-5?



I did not read all this stuff but check it out and see if it helps.

http://lumiversal.net/upload/T5%20v.%20LED.pdf


http://lumiversal.net/upload/LED vs. T5_ Part II.pdf








......


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks Harry You da man. I just got off the phone with the united rep and he basically said the same. Leds are expensive as hell and don't perform as well as the T-5.


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

If the existing fixture is a 250 MH, you would replace that with a three lamp T5. A six lamp T5 would be way to bright. The T5 that I use are 5000 lumens per lamp


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

The problem is not enough light. He basically has 2 250 watts lights covering a 1250 sq area 25*50. There are 5 mini rows. I was going to put 2 4 lamps in each row. The rows are about 25' long and the lights will be about 12-14' AFF. It's a liqour store, so this guy wants lot's of light. Does this seem like over kill?


----------



## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

What are you getting quotes per bulb average with driver? We have a manufacturer who has some nice ones for a decent price. Ill check the price now..


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm going with the T-5s. Thanks though.


----------



## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

I believe the cost was somewhere around $60-$75 per bulb with driver included and 100k claimed life of the bulb.


----------



## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

T8s and T5s are more or less comparable in performance. If it gets really hot (i.e. high bay in unconditioned warehouse in Texas), T5 AMALGAM is better. 


Not an intrinsic benefit to T5 design. Its just that T5 amalgam lamps are more readily availble than T8 amalgam(never seen one personally).

Since you said its low-bay, I would go with T8s. The lower surface brightness of T8s mean less glare. 

T5 28W lamps are basically useless when you have enough room to accommodate T8s and T5 HOs are very bright on surface, so they glare. 

T5HO/54W and F32T8 are common lamps in MRO use. 
28W T5s are rather low volume oddball lamps.

If the existing lamps are PROBE START 250W, then 14,000 lumens is a fair mean output. If it's pulse, then around 19,000. 
Brand new, they're about 21,000 either way. 
So, a 6 lamp T8 with 0.87(normal) or (.77) low or 4 lamp high (1.18) will approximate probe start 250W.

A 6 lamp T8 high (1.18) or 4 lamp T5HO will compare with 250W pulse start. Home Depot 6lamp 95% reflector 1.18 T8 SKU 187271 is around $87. F32T8 RE80 lamps should be about $2.25 ea in quantity. So, complete fixture + lamps would only cost about $100.
I don't know what kind of store your customer operates, but if it's 3500K is generally good and is warmer looking than MH. 

That Lithonia from HD is meant for commercial use with 120-277v ballast.

5,000K works good for production environment and 4100K if you want the generic Super WalMart like look.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

EL,
perhaps you could expand on the led's anchor sized heat sinks? ~CS~


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

It's a liquor store and he wants lot's of light. Do you think the t-5 4 lamp is overkill?


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> There are 5 mini rows. I was going to put 2 4 lamps in each row. The rows are about 25' long and the lights will be about 12-14' AFF. It's a liqour store, so this guy wants lot's of light. Does this seem like over kill?


If you mean, you would use 8' (4 lamp) fixtures for the rows, this sounds doable. I'd still use T-8 fixtures, over T-5, and would use 841 bulbs.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> It's a liquor store and he wants lot's of light. Do you think the t-5 4 lamp is overkill?


No I do not think so ,But you may want to look into the 3500K lamps like Electric_Light suggested.:thumbsup:


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

go with the t5.... led are expensive and overrated for your application.. IMO leds are good if light color and intensity arent important. in your case you want as much light as possible.. You wont get that with led and if you do be prepared to pay out the butt... Just my 2 cents.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> If you mean, you would use 8' (4 lamp) fixtures for the rows, this sounds doable. I'd still use T-8 fixtures, over T-5, and would use 841 bulbs.


Do you think that a four lamp T-8 fixture would give enough light?

I am curious about why you would go with the T-8's instead of the T-5's?


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Do you think that a four lamp T-8 fixture would give enough light?


Plenty, the store is only 25x50. If he has 5 rows, I "assume" the rows run parallel with the short side of the store. (5) rows, each 15-18' long.

Come 3' off the wall, mount a fixture, 3 feet mount a fixture.




HARRY304E said:


> I am curious about why you would go with the T-8's instead of the T-5's?


Stocking issues for one. 

Performance, cost, and call backs for another.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> Plenty, the store is only 25x50. If he has 5 rows, I "assume" the rows run parallel with the short side of the store. (5) rows, each 15-18' long.
> 
> Come 3' off the wall, mount a fixture, 3 feet mount a fixture.


Thanks I did not know that the store was that small.:thumbsup:






Dnkldorf said:


> Stocking issues for one.
> 
> Performance, cost, and call backs for another.


So the T-5 HO's have Performance issues?

So far "knock on wood" I have not had any call backs ,but my oldest install of this type of fixture is only about 3 years old.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

You know, thinking about this more, my idea might be wayyyy too much light.

Maybe (2) 2 bulb, 8' T-8's would be enough in the rows at12', and (1) 4 bulber over the checkout.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

The store is really 3750 sq. The area I'm addressing is 1250 sq with rows like you said. I don't trhink I can go wrong with the 2 4 lamp t-5's per row. He want's the bottles to light up so?


----------



## chrisfnl (Sep 13, 2010)

I took part in a project to replace a fair number (Approx 800) T12 tubes with LED lighting... included survey of fixtures, power study, and test installation...

While it fit the bill for us, and I'd highly recommend LED lighting for some uses.... I still give it a few years before it's there for general use... 

For your application, T-5.


----------



## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> The store is really 3750 sq. The area I'm addressing is 1250 sq with rows like you said. I don't trhink I can go wrong with the 2 4 lamp t-5's per row. He want's the bottles to light up so?


4 lamp T5/54W or 6 lamp T8/32W (high BF)... almost the same output. The 6 lamp T8 would glare less as the surface brightness is lower and the mounting height isn't that high. 

4 lamp T5s are better for higher ceiling. Home Depot stores use T5s and glare isn't a big issue, but their ceiling is much higher than a liquor store.

But then.. to keep energy cost in check, lower the fixture as much as practical. Arrange fixtures in a way that maximizes light use and use the least amount of lamps you need for satisfactory result.


----------



## Runion Energy (Aug 17, 2011)

These are a direct replacement for 250 watt hid fixtures good pricing.

http://www.lusiolighting.com/pdf/datasheets/LW-LUSIO-ES-BAY-2M.pdf


----------



## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Runion Energy said:


> These are a direct replacement for 250 watt hid fixtures good pricing.
> 
> http://www.lusiolighting.com/pdf/datasheets/LW-LUSIO-ES-BAY-2M.pdf



11,600 lumen NEW is replacement for 250W mean since when? 

The specification of "11,600 average" is misleading. "mean lumen" in lighting is the lumen output of each lamp after about 40% of rated life is spent and sampled from a large number. 

Problem with LED marketeers...
Compare: our product right out of the box before any depreciation. 

Reference: lowest performing MH (probe start) after depreciation


----------



## gnxtc2 (Feb 21, 2011)

What is the ceiling height/mounting height of the fixture? If the height is around 12'-15' then go with a T8. A T5HO is not going to perform correctly at that height. 

Plus, maintenance cost for a T8 ballast is way cheaper than a T5HO.

Billy T.
[email protected]


----------



## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

I think the maintenance cost of T5 HO high bays are 20x the cost of 400W MH.

The warehouse manager will be replacing T5 lamps on a regular basis... where as 1) 400w MH lamp last for 5-6 years.

And if T5-HO ballast fail as often as T8 ballast, some warehouse manager is going to be very unhappy.


----------

