# Attaching boxes to steel beams



## acro (May 3, 2011)




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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

1/4 inch beam clamps, as pictured in the post above, are perfect for your application.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I have a job where the beams line up perfectly for my pendants, all I have to do is attach octagons to the beams. What’s quick and fast? I could shoot pins but don’t really want to. I don’t want to be cutting strut either.
> 
> You guys got some magic?
> 
> I guess I could drive Tek screws through but I’m thinking of some form of clamp.


Tek screws won't work on thick steel, they will strip their own threads out of the steel.

You can drill 1/4" holes thru the beam relatively easily, but standard beam clamps like posted above work a hell of a lot better.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Teck 5 screws. They are designed for heavy steel. I've used them in 1/2" steel beams and they work well. Once you get the hang of running them in it is faster than beam clamps and gives a nice flat surface to mount the boxes on.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

acro said:


>


You go through the center KO and use a fender washer?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> Teck 5 screws. They are designed for heavy steel. I've used them in 1/2" steel beams and they work well. Once you get the hang of running them in it is faster than beam clamps and gives a nice flat surface to mount the boxes on.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Those screws will work. When I said that tek screws wont work, I was basing it on the local slang word usage of "tek screw" meaning the little ones, also called zippies, used to hold metal studs to track.

Longer drill tipped self-drilling screws will work, I just did not know that they were called tek screws as well. Silly me.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> You go through the center KO and use a fender washer?


That will work. 

I don't think I ever mounted 4" round boxes so I am not sure if this will work, but with 4" square boxes I would use 2 beam clamps and just run a short 1/4-20 bolt thru the 1/4" holes in the back of the box.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

That was easy. Thanks, guys  .


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Those screws will work. When I said that tek screws wont work, I was basing it on the local slang word usage of "tek screw" meaning the little ones, also called zippies, used to hold metal studs to track.
> 
> Longer drill tipped self-drilling screws will work, I just did not know that they were called tek screws as well. Silly me.


Yeah, Tek is a trade name for self drilling screws. The little pointy ones for steel studs aren’t really Tek screws because they’re self tapping. I’ve never heard the word “zippies” before.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

We use Tek 5's for beams. If it's 1/2" or less steel the Teks are the simplest method for us.










http://fastening-solutions.itwbuild...-3/teks-5-steel-to-steel-self-drilling-screws

We use the 12-24x1.5" climaseal type all the time. The guys keep them on their trucks.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

HackWork said:


> That will work.
> 
> I don't think I ever mounted 4" round boxes so I am not sure if this will work, but with 4" square boxes I would use 2 beam clamps and just run a short 1/4-20 bolt thru the 1/4" holes in the back of the box.


not counting the extra time involved, your cost is probably 10x the cost of one tek screw


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

wcord said:


> not counting the extra time involved, your cost is probably 10x the cost of one tek screw


You're the man now dog.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

HackWork said:


> You're the man now dog.


with all the money you will save, you will be able to vacation as far as your back yard


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

99cents said:


> You go through the center KO and use a fender washer?


I would use one of the holes (in the back of the box) that are provided for mounting. A 1/4 20 bolt or screw into the clamp. The clamp is threaded to 1/4 20. You will need short screws or bolts.
Just use the same hole on each box so they are in perfect alignment.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

*clamps*

These are cheaper.

https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R1023


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

You still have to strap your conduit and AC cable, so are you going to use beam clamps for that too?
Tek screws-done.
as 99 says, put the money in your pocket and walk away


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

wcord said:


> You still have to strap your conduit and AC cable, so are you going to use beam clamps for that too?
> Tek screws-done.
> as 99 says, put the money in your pocket and walk away


In all the years of doing commercial work, I never performed, saw, or heard of self drilling screws into heavy building steel, only studs. A couple times we would drill and use 1/4-20 bolts, but the other 99.9% of the time we used beam clamps. Either the cast ones or the sheet metal ones like FaultCurrent posted. We used them for both boxes and pipe support. We would have the apprentices make up a bunch of clamps with cowboys (mineralacs) on the ground and then attach them as we went.

I never imagined using self drilling screws in I-beams. It's interesting to hear that they drill quickly.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

FaultCurrent said:


> These are cheaper.
> 
> https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R1023


If the pendants aren't heavy, I like these. With TEK screws, I've had problems with breaking heads off or not screwing all the way in.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

wcord said:


> You still have to strap your conduit and AC cable, so are you going to use beam clamps for that too?
> Tek screws-done.
> as 99 says, put the money in your pocket and walk away


Tie wraps. Done.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Caddy makes all sorts of drive on clamps and straps for beams. Very fast.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm still a bit intrigued by the self drilling screw idea.

But one other issue I thought of is if you are on a ladder, it would be a bit of a pain to hold the box and drill with one hand, not having a hand to steady yourself if needed, and having all those hot metal shavings falling down onto you. 

With the beam clamp idea, all of the boxes are made up at once on the ground, then you just hang it over the beam and give the bolt a few twists with your nut driver and it's good.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

tmessner said:


> Caddy makes all sorts of drive on clamps and straps for beams. Very fast.


You might be able to get these for a 3/8" flange...

https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...lips/Erico-Caddy/M24S/product.aspx?zpid=13253


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Cow said:


> We use Tek 5's for beams. If it's 1/2" or less steel the Teks are the simplest method for us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Expensive, but astounding labor savings.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

@HackWork - note that the Teks that drill heavy steel are the Teks 5's not regular teks. You won't get far with regular Teks in I-beams. 

I think Tek bought a company that made 5-fluted self drilling - self tapping screws, I can't remember the name. They are obviously very good to keep on hand. 

I still use beam clamps more often. You get two holes with a beam clamp, which is often helpful. No sharp point sticking out. Easier to put on in odd positions, no running the drill on a ladder. Easily repositionable. 

I don't pay much more for the regular malleable type than the Caddy stamped metal type. The malleable are stronger. I like the normal set screw on the Caddy stamped rather than the ridiculous square head screw on the malleable.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I have not done much heavy beam work in a while, but when I did we Hilti shot everything with 1/4" x 20 studs and red shots.

I have drilled and tapped lots of 1/4" x 20 holes in beams too. The only difference was the engineer that talked about structural integrity in drilling vice shots; everyone seems to have a different take in it.

Cheers
John


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Bird dog said:


> You might be able to get these for a 3/8" flange...
> 
> https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...lips/Erico-Caddy/M24S/product.aspx?zpid=13253


That's what I would do. Just need a nut and done.

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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

The last beam work I did I mounted the boxes with caddy stamped beam clamps ($.79/ea iirc), 1/2" long 1/4x20 bolts, and used caddy pound on emt hangers. Where I ran MC I used the bang ons with a hoop and zip tied them up. 

If they are bar joists and not beams then I would use toggle bolts between the angle iron to hold up the boxes and zip tie the bx/ac/mc whatever to the cross members.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

We get our Tek5 screws on eBay. Don't ask me who the seller is, but they end up at about $.08/piece. From Fastenal it's up around $.25 or more. It's been awhile since we got any there. I've found the eBay ones actually work better. I'm kind of surprised at that because they are stamped, and the ones from Fastenal are machined.

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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

HackWork said:


> In all the years of doing commercial work, I never performed, saw, or heard of self drilling screws into heavy building steel, only studs. A couple times we would drill and use 1/4-20 bolts, but the other 99.9% of the time we used beam clamps. Either the cast ones or the sheet metal ones like FaultCurrent posted. We used them for both boxes and pipe support. We would have the apprentices make up a bunch of clamps with cowboys (mineralacs) on the ground and then attach them as we went.
> 
> I never imagined using self drilling screws in I-beams. It's interesting to hear that they drill quickly.


A good majority of buildings over here are steel structures.

We run the Tek 5's I posted above into building steel all the time, sq. tube columns, i beams, you name it. The only time we don't use tek 5's, is if we get into the huge clearspan steel buildings with beams that have 3/4"+ flanges on them. 

1/2" and less is fair game though.

It's pretty common to hold a 4 sq up and mark one of the holes with a sharpie. Set the box down and drill the hole with a Tek 5. Then back it out and screw the box in place. Then run a second Tek 5 through the back of the box. Done.

Beam clamps and such space the box off too much and don't support nearly as well as a box with it's entire surface area resting against a beam or column face.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Forgot to mention, with those tek 5's I linked to above, they are a 12-24 machine thread. Which means we also use them to attach ground lugs to building steel, especially when it's into columns where you can't get to the backside to use a bolt and nut. 

Also works well for highway billboard services where it's just a huge chunk of pipe embedded in the ground holding the sign up and you need to mount your service to it and bond it with a lug.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Forge Boyz said:


> We get our Tek5 screws on eBay. Don't ask me who the seller is, but they end up at about $.08/piece. From Fastenal it's up around $.25 or more. It's been awhile since we got any there. I've found the eBay ones actually work better. I'm kind of surprised at that because they are stamped, and the ones from Fastenal are machined.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


I tried some E-bay ones. I thought they were made from butter. I bite the bullet and use Fastenal.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

tmessner said:


> I tried some E-bay ones. I thought they were made from butter. I bite the bullet and use Fastenal.


I don't know. I wasn't expecting them to be very good, but they thoroughly impressed me. And at 1/3 the price? I'm not arguing.

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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I love the Tek 5's, use a crap ton of them, always have some stocked in my trucks. 



I much prefer the look of the boxes and stuff mounted flat and clean to the beam then on clamps, and of it's somewhere monkeys can get to it then for sure no clamps.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Beam clamps are what the old timers without impact drivers used. # 12 or larger teks for most building steel works fine and is dirt cheap. Thick I beams, the tek5 12/24 long cutting tip screws that have already been mentioned are the cats as$.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Yeah, Tek is a trade name for self drilling screws. The little pointy ones for steel studs aren’t really Tek screws because they’re self tapping. I’ve never heard the word “zippies” before.



The pointed screws are just called 'zip screws'!


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The pointed screws are just called 'zip screws'!


We just call them "pan heads" here.

I don't think I've ever heard some one call them zip screws or zippies.


Technically the type of screws we use are not pan heads though, they are "truss head"


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

These are what I am talking about. And when I typed "zippie" into Google to find this picture, it automatically added "screw" to the end of it, which means many people searched for that phrase before. 










They also make zippies that have a sharp point tip instead of a drill tip, they are for lighter gauge studs.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

freeagnt54 said:


> We just call them "pan heads" here.
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard some one call them zip screws or zippies.
> 
> ...



That **** will just end in frustration more often than not with thick steel and an impact driver.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

acro said:


> That **** will just end in frustration more often than not with thick steel and an impact driver.


You can't use any self drilling screw on steel thicker than the length of the drill tip's flutes.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

freeagnt54 said:


> We just call them "pan heads" here.
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard some one call them zip screws or zippies.
> 
> ...


Around here we call those wafer screws

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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Something like this

Just screw the box to the hole in back of the clamp

Easy peesy japaneesy









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## QMED (Sep 14, 2016)

I've mounted boxes to beams before with self tappers but you usually burn 2 or 3 before one of them threads in.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

These babies. Make sure they are #12 or larger so they don't snap when they are threading in. Hex is better than phillips unless you like stripping the heads and snapping the tip on your impact driver. The self tapping head has to be at least as long as the steel is thick or you are just going to snap the tip off in the hole.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

freeagnt54 said:


> We just call them "pan heads" here.
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard some one call them zip screws or zippies.
> 
> ...


Yes those pictured are truss head tek screws. Probably #8 x 1/2"


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Zip screws:




https://www.toolbarn.com/malco-hw8x1zx.html/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CPCS+-+Shopping&utm_term=shopping&utm_content=geKpfRJC_pcrid_90615801974_pkw__pmt__pdv_c_product_malco-HW8X1ZX_&gclid=CjwKCAjw_MnmBRAoEiwAPRRWW5TCa0p8WFK7INpXx0LX-uaAMvygTldN1kKuCPZmQX-W9DzKf7IEhRoCUw0QAvD_BwE


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

QMED said:


> I've mounted boxes to beams before with self tappers but you usually burn 2 or 3 before one of them threads in.


Where I'd have a dozen mounted with the beam clamps....99 could get 2, possibly 3, so he's still ahead if he used the correct parts

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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Grabbed some scrap EMT shorties, attached it to the beam, U-bolt, done.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Grabbed some scrap EMT shorties, attached it to the beam, U-bolt, done.


I have no idea what you are saying here. How did you do it?


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

I find it fascinating it's taken three pages to figure out how to mount a box to a beam...lol


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

cdslotz said:


> I find it fascinating it's taken three pages to figure out how to mount a box to a beam...lol


:biggrin:

But it's good though. Now I know that I could get self tappers for thick steel, and will put some on the truck.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

99cents said:


> Grabbed some scrap EMT shorties, attached it to the beam, U-bolt, done.





HackWork said:


> I have no idea what you are saying here. How did you do it?


If you attach the EMT to the beam, you can u bolt the box to the EMT, but you have the same question, what do you mount EMT to the beam with? 

Unless ... did you cut the pipe to wedge between the flanges of the beam?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> :biggrin:
> 
> But it's good though. Now I know that I could get self tappers for thick steel, and will put some on the truck.


Never look around when you go in Fastenal or Up Tite?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> If you attach the EMT to the beam, you can u bolt the box to the EMT, but you have the same question, what do you mount EMT to the beam with?
> 
> Unless ... did you cut the pipe to wedge between the flanges of the beam?


With seismic code requirements you'd still need to clamp down the EMT


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Never look around when you go in Fastenal or Up Tite?


 I have seen self tappers with long drill tips, but I never really thought that they could be used on thick building steel like I-beams.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

99cents said:


> Grabbed some scrap EMT shorties, attached it to the beam, U-bolt, done.


I cut a piece of 1” EMT about 18” long. Attached the octagon box to it with a U-bolt on the ground. Went up, banged a couple of conduit clamps onto the beam, attached the pipe, done.


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

99cents said:


> I cut a piece of 1” EMT about 18” long. Attached the octagon box to it with a U-bolt on the ground. Went up, banged a couple of conduit clamps onto the beam, attached the pipe, done.


Is that a UL listed assembly?....lol


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

cdslotz said:


> Is that a UL listed assembly?....lol


It has 99 cents worth of approval  .


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

What hasn't been said yet is the various self tappers shown have a tendency to shear off while drilling into steel beams. Best to drill a pilot hole with a plain ole steel drill bit first before sending in a self tapper into the beam unless you like moving the stock to a new place and trying again........ It can be a real pain if exact box placement is really critical and the screws snap off in the spot where the box has a hole for securing.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> :biggrin:
> 
> But it's good though. Now I know that I could get self tappers for thick steel, and will put some on the truck.


Same. I plain never knew they existed.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> What hasn't been said yet is the various self tappers shown have a tendency to shear off while drilling into steel beams. Best to drill a pilot hole with a plain ole steel drill bit first before sending in a self tapper into the beam unless you like moving the stock to a new place and trying again........ It can be a real pain if exact box placement is really critical and the screws snap off in the spot where the box has a hole for securing.


If it's critical, drill a hole & mount the box with a toggle bolt (molly bolt).


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

99cents said:


> I cut a piece of 1” EMT about 18” long. Attached the octagon box to it with a U-bolt on the ground. Went up, banged a couple of conduit clamps onto the beam, attached the pipe, done.


So instead of one beam clamp you've got two beam clamps, a piece of pipe and a u-bolt? 

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> If it's critical, drill a hole & mount the box with a toggle bolt (molly bolt).


A nut and lock washer is much stronger.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

HackWork said:


> A nut and lock washer is much stronger.


True, or double nut the bolt.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Just drag the MIG around and fill in the holes in the box.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Geeze, all you old timers, stop waving your cane and beam clamps at the neighborhood kids, telling them to get off of your lawn:wheelchair: Grab your impact driver, shoot some tek screws into the beam and get back to work:bangin:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

B-Nabs said:


> So instead of one beam clamp you've got two beam clamps, a piece of pipe and a u-bolt?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Sure. I had everything on site already. Improvise.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I have seen self tappers with long drill tips, but I never really thought that they could be used on thick building steel like I-beams.


When we had a Hilti guy come by the shop at one company I worked I always listened to his sales talks about new stuff they were pushing and that was where I first saw them.


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## chapinsc (Jan 21, 2018)

We mounted 12 cord reels to 3/8" thick beams this week with the "beam cutter" screws that i call them. Quick and easy !!


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

chapinsc said:


> We mounted 12 cord reels to 3/8" thick beams this week with the "beam cutter" screws that i call them. Quick and easy !!


That's great. Do you have a name, part number, manufacturer or a link?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Cow said:


> We use Tek 5's for beams. If it's 1/2" or less steel the Teks are the simplest method for us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We were setting boxes and straps on 3/8" steel columns.
A local distributor set us to a wholesale screw place. The sales guy was very helpful but said they only sold them in 5000pc boxes. 
The price was about $20. That was eight years ago and we are still using them.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> If it's critical, drill a hole & mount the box with a toggle bolt (molly bolt).


Thank you for the useful information that I have been using when necessary for the last 45 years now. And Hax is right, a nut and machine screw is stronger so more frequently when it's critical I do that . 

Ceiling fans in elementary schools by the hundreds. I usually hate hanging ceiling fans , but when you can bid $600 a piece for assembling and hanging customer supplied fans (pipe and wire and switching extra and beyond the 600) since it's a public school, it is one of my favorite tasks........... I usually used the toggles on the steel beams...

Somehow or another this tie's in with the current thread on how much it costs to build a school...:vs_laugh:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> We were setting boxes and straps on 3/8" steel columns.
> A local distributor set us to a wholesale screw place. The sales guy was very helpful but said they only sold them in 5000pc boxes.
> The price was about $20. That was eight years ago and we are still using them.


You know those drawers that American Van sells that come with van purchases?
The ones that have ball bearing slides? Always two of the compartments are for the self tapping 1" screws. I buy mine at Industrial Hardware or Tugman . By the caseload.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Thank you for the useful information that I have been using when necessary for the last 45 years now. And Hax is right, a nut and machine screw is stronger so more frequently when it's critical I do that .
> 
> Ceiling fans in elementary schools by the hundreds. I usually hate hanging ceiling fans , but when you can bid $600 a piece for assembling and hanging customer supplied fans (pipe and wire and switching extra and beyond the 600) since it's a public school, it is one of my favorite tasks........... I usually used the toggles on the steel beams...
> 
> Somehow or another this tie's in with the current thread on how much it costs to build a school...:vs_laugh:


You should be ashamed of yourself.

On second thought, I love this. It isn’t often we end up with tax dollars in our jeans. Carry on.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

If you have Hilti powder actuated tool

https://www.hilti.com/c/CLS_FASTENE...LEMENTS_7135/CLS_CONDUIT_FASTENERS_7135/r5356

https://www.hilti.com/c/CLS_FASTENE...CLS_NAILS_FOR_POWDERACTUATED_TOOLS_7135/r3650


Or "Bang on" fittings

https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R1302


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