# Is it official? July 2023, the end of incandescent light bulbs.



## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I see the "administration " moved the phase out date up for the ban on incandescent bulbs. Should I stock up now or 8s it too late?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Have they got an LED for your oven yet?


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

I remember when this was a huge inconvenience when those frickin liberals made me switch from my steam powered car to one of those new fangled gasoline automobiles. On a related note, I really do like that Mr. Ford's politics!


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Breakfasteatre said:


> I remember when this was a huge inconvenience when those frickin liberals made me switch from my steam powered car to one of those new fangled gasoline automobiles. On a related note, I really do like that Mr. Ford's politics!


I know. Those steam cars had a lot more horsepower. 
.


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## samgregger (Jan 23, 2013)

Why would you want to stock up on shitty, inefficient bulbs?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Breakfasteatre said:


> I remember when this was a huge inconvenience when those frickin liberals made me switch from my steam powered car to one of those new fangled gasoline automobiles. On a related note, I really do like that Mr. Ford's politics!


I think anyone who isn't switching away from incandescent is nuts. I just think my tax dollars are better spent elsewhere than "banning" anything like that from the consumer market.

Why not fluorescent? Inefficient, contains mercury, fraught with danger. Why not ban those? I'm sure the push-back would be similar.....

Incandescent would be obsolete all on it's own eventually, without some bozo in the government getting paid to pretend they are doing something.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

samgregger said:


> Why would you want to stock up on shitty, inefficient bulbs?


Troubleshooting aid. I also miss the flasher buttons which were also phased out. I think its a CCP plot to mess up American electrician's day..................


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

They're not banned, they just have to meet higher efficient standards.

This applies only to "general service bulbs" not signal bulbs, heat lamps, appliance bulbs, etc.

Cant imagine this will affect much of anyone. I dont know anyone who buys regular 60w and 100w bulbs any more.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

samgregger said:


> Why would you want to stock up on shitty, inefficient bulbs?


I like the crisp look of the halogen lamps and they dim better than LED. Some people have many dimmers so now they all have to be changed. LED bulbs are not consistent. Today's LED might be compatible with dimmers and AFCIs but when they redesign them you could have problems. Many other reasons.


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

There are a load of "exceptions" for this "ban" including high temp bulbs and three way lamps. You all sounds like the candle makers bemoaning the newfangled (incandescent) light bulb. Deal with it and move on.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

My church went through relamping recently and despite my suggestions they went all halogen/incandescent.

There were no drop in LED replacements. They would have had to either replace the fixtures, or retrofit LEDs designed for something else. I was advocating for the latter.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

kbatku said:


> There are a load of "exceptions" for this "ban" including high temp bulbs and three way lamps. You all sounds like the candle makers bemoaning the newfangled (incandescent) light bulb. Deal with it and move on.


I've been trying to determine if I'll still be able to get 300w utility bulbs, do you know?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Pssst, I have a few vintage 100 watt rough service “strawberry’s” for rent.
Just wait in the alleyway and I’ll bring the “strawberry’s” out in a plain paper bag.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> I see the "administration " moved the phase out date up for the ban on incandescent bulbs. Should I stock up now or 8s it too late?


To phase out date was already set before Trump got into office and eliminated it. And the right wing nut jobs went wild because hey. “freedom” oh and “annoy the left.”


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> Have they got an LED for your oven yet?


Yes - all glass LEDs exist.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> I think anyone who isn't switching away from incandescent is nuts. I just think my tax dollars are better spent elsewhere than "banning" anything like that from the consumer market.
> 
> Why not fluorescent? Inefficient, contains mercury, fraught with danger. Why not ban those? I'm sure the push-back would be similar.....
> 
> Incandescent would be obsolete all on it's own eventually, without some bozo in the government getting paid to pretend they are doing something.


lanation is very simple, and it requires that or inform you that that “bozo in government office“ is a heck of a lot smarter than you are. Because you’re pulling wires in bending pipe and he’s running a country. Now who is the bozo?

when they severely limit the sales of standard incandescent bulbs, this assures the free market that there will be a rush of people looking to purchase LEDs Dash and because of that, many different manufacturers begin competing with each other to capture that share of the market, forcing the prices down, and the supply up, which is a benefit to all Americans. Because some companies just won’t get into the LED manufacturing business if incandescence are still a Ubiquitous thing.

Now, does that help clarify things for you buddy… Or do I have to break out the flash cards and the crayons?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> I like the crisp look of the halogen lamps and they dim better than LED. Some people have many dimmers so now they all have to be changed. LED bulbs are not consistent. Today's LED might be compatible with dimmers and AFCIs but when they redesign them you could have problems. Many other reasons.


Wow man, can ‘t you think of just one good reason to agree or say yes… or is it all just a bunch of no’s shoved together and regurgitated for you??? If Trump proposed it you’d be on that proposal like white on rice.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

dspiffy said:


> My church went through relamping recently and despite my suggestions they went all halogen/incandescent.
> 
> There were no drop in LED replacements. They would have had to either replace the fixtures, or retrofit LEDs designed for something else. I was advocating for the latter.


What kind of Incandescent/halogen lamps does your church use?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Pssst, I have a few vintage 100 watt rough service “strawberry’s” for rent.
> Just wait in the alleyway and I’ll bring the “strawberry’s” out in a plain paper bag.
> View attachment 164810


Excuse me but I called Dibs on the alleyway.

Friggin interloper…


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

LGLS said:


> Excuse me but I called Dibs on the alleyway.
> 
> Friggin interloper…


Ok, ok 
I’ll use the phone booth on the corner.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Ok, ok
> I’ll use the phone booth on the corner.


Freeze superman is in trouble huh? I don’t even think there are payphones anymore. Maybe at a train station, or in an airport.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

LGLS said:


> Wow man, can ‘t you think of just one good reason to agree or say yes… or is it all just a bunch of no’s shoved together and regurgitated for you??? If Trump proposed it you’d be on that proposal like white on rice.


LEDs serve a purpose and they are about the only lights I use. However if there are perfectly good incandescent or fluorescent lights working why change them? I have only seen one LED R30 that dims with a true warm white. They cost about $12.00 each. Add the $32.00 dimmer plus labor, where is the money savings? If you know of any economical LEDs that dim down to 20% without the ugly grayish color please let me know. I use the Lutron Diva dimmers for LED.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> LEDs serve a purpose and they are about the only lights I use. However if there are perfectly good incandescent or fluorescent lights working why change them? I have only seen one LED R30 that dims with a true warm white. They cost about $12.00 each. Add the $32.00 dimmer plus labor, where is the money savings? If you know of any economical LEDs that dim down to 20% without the ugly grayish color please let me know. I use the Lutron Diva dimmers for LED.


Every LED bulb I purchased has been in multi packs, most from Home Depot or Lowe’s or electrical supply houses, and they dim down fine maybe they go to 20% or 15%… No, I realize they don’t dim down to a say a two or 3% like an incandescent can but really who needs that? The color temperature of my LEDs when damage is perfectly acceptable but they start off as 2700 K… I also have some 3000 K in the kitchen for a bit brighter white or clear light, more like halogen. Still they dim fine and retain their color temp throughout the range as far as I can detect.

I have some LEDs in the bathroom and other areas of the house that have an amber tinted glass and they are just great.

I have not ever had any problem with an LED being unable to dim as long as the package said that they are dimmer compatible. Maybe some of the earlier LEDs required a certain specific dimmer but I’m not sure that is the case anymore. I even have some regular rotary dimmers that have no problems with compatibility with my LEDs. Even my LED Christmas lights which I have a few strings of our dimmable with a six dollar rotary 600 W dimmer.

The last R-20s, R-30s, and even R-40s I purchased were also about $12. For a four pack. I don’t know where you’re buying your LEDs…

I don’t know what you’re referring to when you say that people should be not have to remove their florescent or incandescents if they’re perfectly fine and working.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I went to a store at a local mall to see about adding some lights. The store had low voltage MR16 lamps and they were replaced with LED lamps under the rebate program. Now the store looks like it is closed because it is dark. They saved the store owner money on electricity by cutting the light in the store. Now he has to replace the $6.00 LED lamp with an $85.00 LED track head. 75 heads? I guess he will get his payback in about 5 years. Retail is more concerned about what the show room looks like rather than save energy.


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## BleedingLungsMurphy (10 mo ago)

Coming soon to a lighting retailer near you: Repackaged *Vintage Incandescent light bulbs *only $19.99 each!


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

LGLS said:


> Every LED bulb I purchased has been in multi packs, most from Home Depot or Lowe’s or electrical supply houses, and they dim down fine maybe they go to 20% or 15%… No, I realize they don’t dim down to a say a two or 3% like an incandescent can but really who needs that? The color temperature of my LEDs when damage is perfectly acceptable but they start off as 2700 K… I also have some 3000 K in the kitchen for a bit brighter white or clear light, more like halogen. Still they dim fine and retain their color temp throughout the range as far as I can detect.
> 
> I have some LEDs in the bathroom and other areas of the house that have an amber tinted glass and they are just great.
> 
> ...











These are the ones I like to use. They dim very similar to a halogen. I haven't found a 6 inch retrofit that can dim down and still keep the color. They all go gray. I don't know about today's LEDs but the older dimmable versions life expectancy was cut down when dimming.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Those bulbs are the type that get warmer and warmer as you dim them (warmer in color temperature not heat output) you might have better luck with the type that aren’t designed to do that, but even with incandescents when you dim them down to a very low output they get redder and redder and redder or because they are no longer burning white-hot. Perhaps your expectation belies physical reality.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Incandescents will, by nature, eventually be replaced with LEDs or something similar but I have an intense dislike for the government deciding so.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Pssst, I have a few vintage 100 watt rough service “strawberry’s” for rent.
> Just wait in the alleyway and I’ll bring the “strawberry’s” out in a plain paper bag.
> View attachment 164810


Throw in a flasher button and I'm your man........


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

LGLS said:


> What kind of Incandescent/halogen lamps does your church use?


Mostly 250w E11. There's about 50 of those, about 20 500w PAR56


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

dspiffy said:


> Mostly 250w E11. There's about 50 of those, about 20 500w PAR56


Wow. Yeah… It wasn’t until I worked in Saint Patrick’s cathedral that I became aware of how many watts the humongous chandeliers hanging over the sanctuary have. Fixtures I assume to be 150 W par spotlights Recessed in the ceiling were actually 1200 watt ellipsodial theatrical fixtures.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

micromind said:


> Incandescents will, by nature, eventually be replaced with LEDs or something similar but I have an intense dislike for the government deciding so.


👆
This right here. When legislation wades into matters like this, you know “campaign” contributions were made discreetly.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> 👆
> This right here. When legislation wades into matters like this, you know “campaign” contributions were made discreetly.


Although you’re not wrong, you left out the part where contributions were made from both sides of the issue and one side won over the other.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> 👆
> This right here. When legislation wades into matters like this, you know “campaign” contributions were made discreetly.


And who makes 85% of LED lamps?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

LGLS said:


> Although you’re not wrong, you left out the part where contributions were made from both sides of the issue and one side won over the other.


Highest bidder wins.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I never liked this legislation. As a Democrat I'd be happy to blame the Bush administration who first implemented it, but the truth is, other than the last administration (who wanted to go fully back to incandescent which is even worse) it has bipartisan support.

I fully support government regulation in many many cases but this is a perfect example of when left unregulated, the problem would solve itself, and the people writing the laws do not have a comprehensive understanding.

I was involved in the energy efficiency standards for ceiling fans. They are garbage. The way the regulations measure airflow is useless.


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

Anyone with sense wants to do what we can to fight gl;obal warming while those who really don't care if their grandchildren live or die get upset by every change or inconvenience associated with trying to not all die.

Truth is we ARE NOT GOING TO DO NEARLY ENOUGH to significantly impact the advance of global warming. Because of greed, laziness, and human nature (not to mention politics) we are going to ride this pony into the ground and quite literally go down in flames. We had a good run and I hope our cockroach overlords will be kind to whatever few humans survive our debacle of a civilization.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

kbatku said:


> Anyone with sense wants to do what we can to fight gl;obal warming while those who really don't care if their grandchildren live or die get upset by every change or inconvenience associated with trying to not all die.
> 
> Truth is we ARE NOT GOING TO DO NEARLY ENOUGH to significantly impact the advance of global warming. Because of greed, laziness, and human nature (not to mention politics) we are going to ride this pony into the ground and quite literally go down in flames. We had a good run and I hope our cockroach overlords will be kind to whatever few humans survive our debacle of a civilization.


Ok first this is not the political section. Second how does this have to do with light bulbs?


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

paulengr said:


> Ok first this is not the political section. Second how does this have to do with light bulbs?


lol, like the intention of the OP wasn't to stir up a political discussion


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

I was curious about the other effects of lightbulb changes besides the energy savings.

There is a good article with a good spiderweb graph (not sure what its actually called) comparing the different types of bulbs






Study: Environmental Benefits of LEDs Greater Than CFLs


Final results of a three-part Energy Department-funded study found that LEDs have less negative environmental impacts than incandescent bulbs and a slight edge over CFLs.




www.energy.gov





I think the point that Kbatku is trying to make is that unless the government steps in a forces citizens to embrace environmentally friendly options, then this earth will be doomed faster than if they didnt

I dont think its a coincidence that the conservative members of this forum are mostly old guys. Climate change will really not effect you during the last years/decades of your lives, so why embrace change?


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Sure looks like talks are happening


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

LGLS said:


> Well you continue to listen if you want but please stop talking. There is no ban or talk of any natural gas usage ban on Long Island or New York.


Yes there is . Any new construction below 7 stories has to be all electric. I don’t remember when it starts but it was on the news last week.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

If you do go to the bank and take out a loan buying a U Store row to hold all you incandescent inventory, they will probably outlaw the possession and sale of them as they did R22 refrigerant. They would even create a new federal agency to enforce it using H-60 Blackhawks and FLIR.

That would be my luck.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> Yes there is . Any new construction below 7 stories has to be all electric. I don’t remember when it starts but it was on the news last week.


By golly you are right! Damn I’m not exactly batting a dowsing here am I? I wonder why buildings larger than seven stories get to continue to get hooked up to gas? Wouldn’t they be the largest polluters? On second thought, come to think of it… If the city wants to cut down on gas emission pollution then what it should do is require higher efficiency boilers. Most of the boilers I’ve ever seen in New York City have always been the builder grade garbage… Or some really top-of-the-line cast-iron stuff which is generally only installed in city owned or a state owned or federally owned buildings.

But landlords in New York City are more than happy to force each tenant to own and maintain their own water heater and their own space boiler, these small ridiculous apartment size boiler heaters that are becoming more and more common, as landlords attempt to **** off their responsibility to provide heat on to their tenants. But these boilers collectively in apartment building are far more in efficient than one central well-built boiler.


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