# HELP I want to learn to bid jobs



## Jordon-the-sparky (Nov 4, 2017)

I guess i meant I want to learn to estimate jobs


----------



## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

When I started my business right after earning my Masters, it didn't take me long to figure out I was out of my league. So I took a job with a company as a trainee.
After 37 years of professional estimating, I was still learning.
People think it's something they can knock out in a short period of time.
Find some classes, learn to do it by hand before jumping into software. When you find a software that works for your style and size, take those classes and seminars. Start small and slow. 
It only takes one job to bring you down....


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Allow me to do as I have many times here: http://electricalresources.com/Help/Electrical_Estimating_Techniques/NetHelp/default.htm


dig around in this for a few days


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Bidding/ Estimating is a constantly moving target.

Commonly, when you win a bid -- it's because you screwed up.

That's why you were the lowest bidder.

The unspoken question: at what scale are you bidding ?


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Jordon-the-sparky said:


> Hey guys Jordon here ! I'm a journey person from Ontario who's really interested on learning to bid jobs properly. I was wondering if anyone here has links to videos, websites, or anything that can help me learn specifically for residential or smaller commercial. Also how did you guys learn? Thanks in advance guys !!:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Also any smaller EC's here in Ontario or Canada in general know if people here use web sites such as angies list or homeadvisor to find work? Or do we use mostly Kijiji in canada ?


Bidding resi work is a no brainer, evident by the hordes of tradesmen that couldn't fill a McD's job app out running amok 

Smaller commercial jobs simply include details most resi jobs do not, larger commercial jobs have details parsed out toward and all inclusive #

One can obtain academic levels in estimating , seek out those that have such knowledge , as well as _buy into_ their tutelage, yet there is _ONE_ factor that will stand out as king no matter who or what you may choose to read and/or listen to

It is _what the market will bare_, or in the case of 'babes in the wood'..._bear_

This holds true for any commodity or service from lemonade stands up to wall st. high finance 

So how does one _know thy market_? 

Easy, ask your local competition, surf the angies, advisors, _et al _internet 3rd parties looking to whore us out

Good luck

~CS~


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jordon-the-sparky said:


> I guess i meant I want to learn to estimate jobs


The best advice I can give to an aspiring estimator is to know your costs, otherwise, you are just counting, measuring footage, and collecting data.

The only way you can make money in the market you are looking into is to have a legion of very cheap help you have to closely manage and grind work out of.

It not for everybody and requires a decent amount of working capital to pull off.

Best thing is to have someone critique your work while asking where you went wrong if you won a bid.


----------



## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> Bidding resi work is a no brainer, evident by the hordes of tradesmen that couldn't fill a McD's job app out running amok
> 
> Smaller commercial jobs simply include details most resi jobs do not, larger commercial jobs have details parsed out toward and all inclusive #
> 
> ...


This incoherent advice should be avoided.....


----------



## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Go to Amazon or Ebay and there are books out there.
Used books can be inexpensive.
Read all you can find.
Some more generic construction estimating books (not electrical based) may help.
Just keep in mind some trades may bid different. But you should know all the basic methods.
Not everything is current, but the main ideas still work.
I wouldn't agree with everything written, and all the books are not written the same.
But read them all, take some things with a grain of salt.

Estimating really involves more aspects then counting items and multiplying by a number. Like said above you have to know you numbers. That gets into business management and basic accounting. More books to study.

There are some free hourly cost calculators for Excel out there. It helps you get thinking in the right direction.

Don't think you have no overhead. Lots of new contractors think this way. "Well I already own a truck with gas in it, use the home bedroom for an office, and garage for storage, have a cell phone... So I have no OH." WRONG

The hardest part is you have no past history to reference. As you work jobs keep track of all your numbers for future reference.

Don't just use other peoples numbers or less than. You really got to know your own numbers.

Some things to be found searching back here. But not in depth & organized like a book.


----------



## Peter Goldwing (Sep 23, 2011)

Estimating comes with experience. Price the job for what the material cost you and you'll have very happy customers ( free labor) Add $100 for each day you expect to be on the job and you'll be a very poor wannabe contractor
Next job price it higher until you are happy with the profits.
If you get every job you bid on you are too low. Houses could be bid at sq ft, give or take electrical appliances. Or you could bid it by nr of points. A single gang box is one point, a three gang box is 3 points etc. Then you have to add for feeders and service. Try to get someones else's bid and you have a point of reference.
The first Dunkin Donuts I wired for just over $20,000.00 I made good money on it ( 30 years ago)Coincidentally a guy that helped me, with a crane, to put up the lighting poles also had bid on the same job. We agreed to share each other bidding price . His was $37,000.00 I asked him if he was going to put in gold lighting poles.
The bid was prepared for him by a professional estimator. That was my first commercial job and I went on with larger projects.
You are at the beginning;a bit less organized less experienced less business contacts.Dont be afraid to be a bit cheaper. Even if you don't make large profits you gain on all other aspects. Good luck!


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

cdslotz said:


> This incoherent advice should be avoided.....



>>>



> What is your electrical related field/trade:
> *Electrical Estimator*
> General Location
> Colleyville, Tx


An apt response from one who _CAN NOT DO_, and thus needs to find another way to pull it down

For your info, i've been doing my thing since the 80's, everythings paid for ,shop,truck(s) house, fat & happy

AND i get calls from 'n deadbeats like YOU every week informing me how much i could $$$ , *IF* i put it in their back pocket

seriously, you got _no game_, _predator_!

~CS~


----------



## Jordon-the-sparky (Nov 4, 2017)

active1 said:


> Go to Amazon or Ebay and there are books out there.
> Used books can be inexpensive.
> Read all you can find.
> Some more generic construction estimating books (not electrical based) may help.
> ...





Any recommendations on books? Also, it seems many of them are from the US. Would they still apply to me in Canada? For example, labour costs and material costs may differ. 

These any good?

DeWalt Electrical Estimating Professional Reference
BNI Electrical Costbook Series


----------



## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Once you get a number add zero's . 

I bid all of our work then I hand it to the man who adds zero's .
400 feet of pipe becomes 400 sticks of pipe in the blink of an eye .
Do not forget all jobs saw blades , razor blades , drill bits , tape , wire nuts , etc in the bid
If it is a big wire job you are buying us new cutters large or small it is in the bid .

He also adds a "misc" in the bid that is never less than 100 bucks to thousands of bucks.
the misc is what we forgot or might be needed like plywood 2x4s sheet rock repair , roof jacks .

Gas , insurance , overhead goes in that bid .
Then he adds more zeros and hands it to me to give to you .

We get close to 90% of what we bid . 
Granted we are food service contractors and 99.9 percent of our work is food service and we come highly recommended . We don't even have business cards and have more work than we can handle . My boss always says they called us we were not looking for work when they called !!!


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

That's called the *CODB* (_cost of doing biz_) , or overhead. 

The other term any contractor needs learn is PE ratio

This isn't rocket science, it's very _very_ basic economics

Biz is all about _calculated_ risk

And one _will _learn it quickly _living_ it , absolutely no comparison *vs.* wash outs growing an azz the shape of their seats trying to *sell* you '_the way_'
:no::no::no:
~CS~


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Misc, consumables, PM, fuel, parking, storage.
We used to run laundry lists like that sit at the table and ask where the competition put those costs.
Then ask if the low bidder even knew his costs and what happens when they go broke and can't finish the job or ask the owner for more money.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Then there's the disingenuous low bidder, who knows how to work a poorly worded contract into a cornucopia of extras....~CS~


----------

