# Exposed cord in cabinets



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I need to run power thru a cabinet to install an u/c light. I know I can carflex it but customer dosent want that. Is there any type of cord that would be legal to run exposed in the cabinet? Any other ideas? Tile backsplash is up and a handyman ran exposed romex in cabinets. Owner had the nerve to ask if it was gonna be more than 300.00.:001_huh: Because I only paid the last guy that..........And the last guy ripped you off.......:laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I need to run power thru a cabinet to install an u/c light. I know I can carflex it but customer dosent want that. Is there any type of cord that would be legal to run exposed in the cabinet? Any other ideas? Tile backsplash is up and a handyman ran exposed romex in cabinets. Owner had the nerve to ask if it was gonna be more than 300.00.:001_huh: Because I only paid the last guy that..........And the last guy ripped you off.......:laughing:


 

I like MC cable beacuse it's small enough when tucked under a shelf you can't see it


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I like MC cable beacuse it's small enough when tucked under a shelf you can't see it


 
I thought of that but wanted to know if there was anything that I could hide a little better. I guess they could paint it if they didn't like it.

And since I cant get into the wall I'm scared the mc conn will show up in the reflection off the granite.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I thought of that but wanted to know if there was anything that I could hide a little better. I guess they could paint it if they didn't like it.
> 
> And since I cant get into the wall I'm scared the mc conn will show up in the reflection off the granite.


 

The house I was in last week, fising would have been impossible without some damage, so I took down two cabinets. There were only (4) screws holding them up, it made the job clean and quick. With the cabinets out of my way, I could open the wall up all I wanted


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The house I was in last week, fising would have been impossible without some damage, so I took down two cabinets. There were only (4) screws holding them up, it made the job clean and quick. With the cabinets out of my way, I could open the wall up all I wanted


My first comment to the owner was it would be nice if the cabinets could be removed. They are custom built with valances , columns and trim all connected to each other. Real fancy things..


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

What is wrong with NM?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> What is wrong with NM?


 
I was thinking it would be illegal. Subject to physical damage. Not that I think dishes would hurt nm just that I think my ahj see its that way.


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## eds (Mar 21, 2009)

can you pull the bottom out of some 700 wiremold and sleeve the romex with the top part


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I was thinking it would be illegal. Subject to physical damage. Not that I think dishes would hurt nm just that I think my ahj see its that way.


 Does anyone remember a cable called ALUSHEATH. It was a black conductor and a white conductor (14/2) in a sheath of aluminum.( no ground wire ). You stripped it by scoring the sheath with a sharp knife, then bending it back and forth a couple of times. The sheath would then slide off. It had special box connectors.
It was used in places where the cable was exposed,and could be painted with the wall, making it almost invisible. There also was a 14/3. Maybe other sizes!!

I'm really showing my age aren't I ?


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> I was thinking it would be illegal. Subject to physical damage. Not that I think dishes would hurt nm just that I think my ahj see its that way.


You quote that the NM in cabinet would be subject to physical damage- 
wouldn't a cord be just as subject, besides you can not use cords for permanent wiring.


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## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

I guess the wire is already ran? I would take it out and rerun it under the cabinet hiding at least most of the wire in wiremold. I guess these are florescent lights not something nice like the low volt stuff from SeaGull.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

ludlam said:


> I guess the wire is already ran? I would take it out and rerun it under the cabinet hiding at least most of the wire in wiremold. I guess these are florescent lights not something nice like the low volt stuff from SeaGull.


 

Low volt seagulll nice????? Please:no:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

manchestersparky said:


> You quote that the NM in cabinet would be subject to physical damage-
> wouldn't a cord be just as subject, besides you can not use cords for permanent wiring.


 
Cord may have been the wrong word. I should of asked what types of cable would be legal. I dont want to flex. And I was wanting something that wouldnt stand out as bad as mc.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

eds said:


> can you pull the bottom out of some 700 wiremold and sleeve the romex with the top part


 
Thought of that also and it may turn out to be the cleanest looking option. That is why I was asking if they made something I could run exposed.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

ludlam said:


> I guess the wire is already ran? I would take it out and rerun it under the cabinet hiding at least most of the wire in wiremold. I guess these are florescent lights not something nice like the low volt stuff from SeaGull.


 
You would have to see how this so called electrician ran the wires. The way I plan to do it is the only option without removing cabinets. 


I'm selling him Kichler fixtures. All my customers love them and the bulbs last forever. Correction...I'm trying to sell him Kichlers.

He made the comment willl it be more than 300.00 so I'm guessing I won't get it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> Thought of that also and it may turn out to be the cleanest looking option. That is why I was asking if they made something I could run exposed.


You could fly to Honolulu and then go from the airport straight down Nimitz until you see a Zippy's. Make a left turn there. 1 block up is City Mill. They sell 2 wire redwood molding to cover over nm cables. Works fine here:thumbsup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> What is wrong with NM?


 

Are you saying I could run NM exposed thru the cabinet?:001_huh:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> What is wrong with NM?


 
Bob are you saying nm would be ok to run in the cabinet????


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Bob are you saying nm would be ok to run in the cabinet????


I think it is ok to do that. Its not subject to physical damage...It even says you can run it exposed on walls...


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I think it is ok to do that. Its not subject to physical damage...It even says you can run it exposed on walls...


 

Time to call the AHJ!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Wiremold certainly would work. It's pretty low profile, can be painted etc.


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## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Low volt seagulll nice????? Please:no:


Whats wrong with it? Everyone down here at the shore gets that or the stuff made by Juno? Quick and ez install, dimmable, clean.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Why are you overthinking this job if the customer has already said he don't want to pay more than $300 ? Give his ass some 3/4" PVC through the cabinets with keyless lamp holders and call it a day.

I mean seriously, parts are going to be half that amount at least

Wiremold = $10 a stick plus fittings at rediculously high prices
light fixtures
wire
misc.

Please, give him the keyless with the ugly pull strings mounted on metal octagon boxes and some 23 watt spiral FL bulbs


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## Big City Electrician (Jul 5, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I was thinking it would be illegal. Subject to physical damage. Not that I think dishes would hurt nm just that I think my ahj see its that way.


Interestingly, MC cable is also not allowed where subject to physical damage. 330.12(1)

But, I would not have a problem with Romex if it was routed discreetly.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

_Subject to physical damage_ is vague and undefined. It's always up for interpretation. I'm still on the fence when it comes to running exposed nm or mc under and within cabinets.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> _Subject to physical damage_ is vague and undefined. It's always up for interpretation. I'm still on the fence when it comes to running exposed nm or mc under and within cabinets.


I agree. Rigid it is


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I agree. Rigid it is


I always have some extra 6-3 nm sheath laying around. Wrap it up with that.
:shifty:


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

We install convenience boxes everywhere. Of course, its spec'ed. Probably because our client sells convenience boxes.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

I think concealed NM runs are uglier than exposed


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Granite counter tops and they are only spending 300 on lighting? WTF!! 

Give them a Few stick up lights and tell them thats all they can afford.

Dont let the customer dictate your wiring methods, and sacrafice quality to meet there budget. Give them options, show them the difference and set your price. $300 will get you a few hockey pucks plugged into the countertop outlets. You want something Nice on that granite in your $20,000 kitchen add a digit to that budget, otherwise you get a garbage install. IMO any install with any kind of wire in the cabinet is less than good. 

Pull a lower cabinet out and old work it from there. Charge accordingly.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

gold said:


> Granite counter tops and they are only spending 300 on lighting? WTF!!
> 
> Give them a Few stick up lights and tell them thats all they can afford.
> 
> ...


 

Oh I did....$1347.00 worth.....I asked for him to please let me know he received my email with the proposal. Think he even did that? Nope.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Oh I did....$1347.00 worth.....I asked for him to please let me know he received my email with the proposal. Think he even did that? Nope.


Probably why most of the estimates I do for UC lighting results in me wanting to choke the **** out of someone.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

gold said:


> Probably why most of the estimates I do for UC lighting results in me wanting to choke the **** out of someone.


 
:laughing::laughing:


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

I did one uc job with a "panduit" type wiring channel, came out looking pretty good. May not have worked in your situation.

And the bill came to more than $300.


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## nccomputersales.com (Aug 15, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I need to run power thru a cabinet to install an u/c light. I know I can carflex it but customer dosent want that. Is there any type of cord that would be legal to run exposed in the cabinet? Any other ideas? Tile backsplash is up and a handyman ran exposed romex in cabinets. Owner had the nerve to ask if it was gonna be more than 300.00.:001_huh: Because I only paid the last guy that..........And the last guy ripped you off.......:laughing:


 

is wire mold an option?
http://nccomputersales.com


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

nccomputersales.com said:


> is wire mold an option?
> http://nccomputersales.com


 
There were a few ways to do it. I would not want to put our company name on any of them. The idiot just had the cabinets refaced. He should of done it then. I'm sorta glad I never heard back from him.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

ludlam said:


> Whats wrong with it? Everyone down here at the shore gets that or the stuff made by Juno? Quick and ez install, dimmable, clean.


 


I don't like the way the lights stab in the wires. You always have to jiggle them to get them to burn. The transformers are overrated too. They cut out even when they're not overloaded. I've had a few go bad. I quit installing the product.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Why not cord mold it underneath the cabinets and then penetrate at your termination point.


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## migidametz (Aug 11, 2010)

Most cabinents, all I have encountered, have side panels and fronts that extend about an inch and a half below the bottom shelf. I usually try to utilize that space and drill in the back corner of the cabinet and usually can use the side panels, in addition to shallow staples for support. I use the shallow(7/8" I think) switch box w/ the brackets spray painted the color of the cabinets) with a handy box cover of matching color as a J box for a retrofit to bring the power out of the wall. Its big enough for a 1/2" KO Bushing. Without a device in the box, you shouldn't have a problem with box fill and the j box is hard to see when standing in a kitchen, especially spray painted. I try to always use puck lights that come with lamp cords. A 3/8" hole in the back corner, at the bottom outside of the cabinet, usually is plenty of room for this cord. If I can find a picture I will post it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

migidametz said:


> Most cabinents, all I have encountered, have side panels and fronts that extend about an inch and a half below the bottom shelf. I usually try to utilize that space and drill in the back corner of the cabinet and usually can use the side panels, in addition to shallow staples for support. I use the shallow(7/8" I think) switch box w/ the brackets spray painted the color of the cabinets) with a handy box cover of matching color as a J box for a retrofit to bring the power out of the wall. Its big enough for a 1/2" KO Bushing. Without a device in the box, you shouldn't have a problem with box fill and the j box is hard to see when standing in a kitchen, especially spray painted. I try to always use puck lights that come with lamp cords. A 3/8" hole in the back corner, at the bottom outside of the cabinet, usually is plenty of room for this cord. If I can find a picture I will post it.


Please hurry up with that picture, I can't wait to see it.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

No light rail on these cabinets. We always come thru the lightrail and butt the fixture up against the back. Not an option here. You would of had to see it to understand.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> No light rail on these cabinets. We always come thru the lightrail and butt the fixture up against the back. Not an option here. You would of had to see it to understand.


 


LED lighting. expensive but good in that situation


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> LED lighting. expensive but good in that situation


There were many options but none would of been attractive in the reflection off the granite top. Cheap sob got what he paid for.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm still waiting to see a lovely picture of zip cord run thru a hole into the wall cavity....


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Wiremold certainly would work. It's pretty low profile, can be painted etc.


definitely.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> definitely.


 
I could of done several different things. I was trying to find something in Mr cheapskates budget. Couldn't be done for what he wanted to pay. Hell 1 light would of cost that.:laughing:


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The house I was in last week, fising would have been impossible without some damage, so I took down two cabinets. There were only (4) screws holding them up, it made the job clean and quick. With the cabinets out of my way, I could open the wall up all I wanted


but did you properly close it to maintain fire rating? :whistling2:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I'm still waiting to see a lovely picture of zip cord run thru a hole into the wall cavity....


 
Me too 

I am waiting for that as well before I will run to the beach as well.

Merci.
Marc


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