# 2 pole arc faults



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Power21 said:


> Gentlemen, good friday! im having trouble tracking down a 2 pole 15 A cutler- hammer BR style ARC fault breaker. Ive looked on the Eaton website it seems that C-H may not have one, i just cant believe it with the new code stuff with mwbc's. Im putting in a new 200a panel and im trying to plan ahead for an existing 14/3 feeding bedrooms that the HO wants protected by AFCI's. The BR panelboard is my go-to just not sure if a breaker exists. Help! Thanks again


 

You're not going to find it. GE is currently the only MAN. who makes one that I know of.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Siemens is the only manufacturer of combo afcis that I have actually seen.


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks guys, that's kinda weird to me. Seems like there's a market for those puppies. So siemens or GE. Got it thanks again:thumbsup:


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

If you upgrade to a Cutler Hammer CH, they make them. I know because I had to order one 2 years ago. You are in DC. I ordered mine through Rexel. You'll need to raise your bid price, but if the HO is wise enough to want AFCI protection, he'll be wise enough to understand this.:thumbsup:


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Split Bolt said:


> If you upgrade to a Cutler Hammer CH, they make them. I know because I had to order one 2 years ago. You are in DC. I ordered mine through Rexel. You'll need to raise your bid price, but if the HO is wise enough to want AFCI protection, he'll be wise enough to understand this.:thumbsup:


Thanks man rexel was closed before I could ask but I'll def use the ch panel board thanks a lot sir


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

My main guy is a big C-H distributor. He recently told me that C-H is _no longer_ making ANY two-pole AFCI's.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

GE uses their standard single pole AFCI breakers with a handle tie as their DP. Theirs is the only designed breakers that will do this. The neutral from the MWBC just connects to one of the two breakers.


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## jay_bolton (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't know if they're still made, but the part numbers are in there.
http://downloads.eatoncanada.ca/dow...de/Loadcentre Product Guide December 2009.pdf


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> GE uses their standard single pole AFCI breakers with a handle tie as their DP. Theirs is the only designed breakers that will do this. The neutral from the MWBC just connects to one of the two breakers.


Seriously?


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

jay_bolton said:


> I don't know if they're still made, but the part numbers are in there.
> http://downloads.eatoncanada.ca/dow...de/Loadcentre Product Guide December 2009.pdf


Jay, do you have permission to use that avatar?:laughing:


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## Redogs54 (Jul 14, 2010)

I get them local through the supply house. BR215AR or BR215ARIT ( Independant trip ) or BR215ARGF ( Arc Fault w/GFCI Protection ). I have never purchased an ARIT or ARGF but have used the BR215AR before, seems like it ran a little over $100 my cost.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Redogs54 said:


> I get them local through the supply house. BR215AR or BR215ARIT ( Independant trip ) or BR215ARGF ( Arc Fault w/GFCI Protection ). I have never purchased an ARIT or ARGF but have used the BR215AR before, seems like it ran a little over $100 my cost.


I'm willing to bet NONE of those can be legally installed today.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Split Bolt said:


> If you upgrade to a Cutler Hammer CH, they make them. I know because I had to order one 2 years ago.


They do not show any combo afcis in their catalog.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> They do not show any combo afcis in their catalog.


It may not have been a combo. The OP said 2-pole Arc-fault only.

Just pulled my Rexel invoice. They listed it as a CH215AF. My price $111.41. Invoice date 10/08/09.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

Here is a link to Eaton. (might be obsolete)

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?Idc...Rendition=Primary&&dDocName=EPODLOADCENTER013


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## Wiredude (May 14, 2010)

A couple years ago, while I was still working at a supply house, I had to order a DP Murray Arc-fault for a customer. As I recally, it was for a baseboard heater in a bedroom. I think this may have been before the big change-over to the arc-fault combo units though.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Just to be clear as there seems to always be confusion on this subject. Combo AFCIs are the only type permitted to be installed per the NEC.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Wiredude said:


> A couple years ago, while I was still working at a supply house, I had to order a DP Murray Arc-fault for a customer. As I recally, it was for a baseboard heater in a bedroom. I think this may have been before the big change-over to the arc-fault combo units though.


You don't need arc fault for a baseboard heater if they are 240V or direct wired.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously?


Yes, seriously.


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## Wiredude (May 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You don't need arc fault for a baseboard heater if they are 240V or direct wired.


 I dunno, at the time I was working at the counter of the supply house, that's what the customer said they needed, so that's what we ordered them. I may be remembering incorrectly (like I said, been a few years), or it's possible that it was a local code issue as well (Pittsburgh PA). Heck, for all I remember, it might have been a MWBC in the bedroom.
I paid attention and learned quite a bit when I was working at the supply house, but I've learned a whole lot more since coming to handle materials from the contractor side of the counter.


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## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

Power21 said:


> Gentlemen, good friday! im having trouble tracking down a 2 pole 15 A cutler- hammer BR style ARC fault breaker. Ive looked on the Eaton website it seems that C-H may not have one, i just cant believe it with the new code stuff with mwbc's. Im putting in a new 200a panel and im trying to plan ahead for an existing 14/3 feeding bedrooms that the HO wants protected by AFCI's. The BR panelboard is my go-to just not sure if a breaker exists. Help! Thanks again


Not going to find them anymore now that arcs have to be series/parralell combo types. That went into effect with 2008. Simple fact is they cant share a neutral, so its not even legal anymore. And thats why you cant find them...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> Not going to find them anymore now that arcs have to be series/parralell combo types. That went into effect with 2008. Simple fact is they cant share a neutral, so its not even legal anymore. And thats why you cant find them...



Whatcha call this, then?











​


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

redseal said:


> Not going to find them anymore now that arcs have to be series/parralell combo types. That went into effect with 2008. Simple fact is they cant share a neutral, so its not even legal anymore. And thats why you cant find them...


Oopsie. Somebody didn't read the thread before replying. :no:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Wiredude said:


> I dunno, at the time I was working at the counter of the supply house, that's what the customer said they needed, so that's what we ordered them. I may be remembering incorrectly (like I said, been a few years), or it's possible that it was a local code issue as well (Pittsburgh PA). Heck, for all I remember, it might have been a MWBC in the bedroom.
> I paid attention and learned quite a bit when I was working at the supply house, but I've learned a whole lot more since coming to handle materials from the contractor side of the counter.


You need to take all the info you heard over the years and start finding the code that confirms the statements. Many things I have heard over the years have turned out to be untruths.



> 210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
> (A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI). A device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.
> (B) Dwelling Units. *All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets* installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.


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## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Whatcha call this, then?


I'll be damned! I stand corrected. Any other manufactures have the combo 2 pole arcs? Not a big Siemans/ITE fan. Thanks 480:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redseal said:


> I'll be damned! I stand corrected. Any other manufactures have the combo 2 pole arcs? Not a big Siemans/ITE fan. Thanks 480:thumbsup:



I think GE has taken the GFCI protection out of their combo AFCIs so they can share a neutral. You can put two single-poles together with a handle-tie and the neutral only needs to be landed on one of them.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

redseal said:


> I'll be damned! I stand corrected. Any other manufactures have the combo 2 pole arcs? Not a big Siemans/ITE fan. Thanks 480:thumbsup:


Still haven't red the thread yet huh. Is this my mother in law? She likes to jump into conversations with questions that have been answered already had she been paying attention all the time. :laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Still haven't red the thread yet huh. Is this my mother in law? She likes to jump into conversations with questions that have been answered already had she been paying attention all the time. :laughing:


 
She doesn't like you either, Scott:laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Have not tried it yet but I was told one can feed the neutral from one breaker thru the other breaker to form a double pole AFI.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Have not tried it yet but I was told one can feed the neutral from one breaker thru the other breaker to form a double pole AFI.


That is not true. For a MWBC you need a DP afci unless you use GE as I stated earlier. The diagram I posted shows no jumper either. This will only work with GE breakers that were designed with this purpose in mind.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

What about us backward Virginia folk who are still stuck in the 2005 NEC?:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> Have not tried it yet but I was told one can feed the neutral from one breaker thru the other breaker to form a double pole AFI.



You owe me $10,000. Cash will be fine.



















Hey, I tried! :laughing:


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## mejdi (Nov 25, 2010)

*Hi everyone*

Hi everyone, just i'm testing my account

Thnk you


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> You owe me $10,000.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll write you an IOU:laughing:


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## WHC (Apr 14, 2012)

*Location for Cutler Hammer 15 Amp 2 Pole AFCI*

I want to thank everyone on this thread for their useful and TIMELY information. I believe I have located the desired object.

PLATT.COM based in Oregon has:

CH215AF
15 Amp, 2-Pole, Type CH Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter, Common Trip, 10 kAIC, 120/240 VAC. (This will fit a CH "EATON" panel box) 

URL = http://www.platt.com/search.aspx?q=ch215af


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