# Plastic Sign lighting



## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Are T12 high outputs still the standard for plexiglass enclosed signs? Or has T8's replaced T12's in plastic signs? I have a ton of HO ballast and 8 cases of T12 HO 96" lamps. I'm wondering if I should even hang on to this stuff. It takes up alot of space. I also have a ton of T12 VHO ballast, what would these be good for? I hate to throw out brand new ballast, but I don't want to store big heavy parts I can't use.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Maybe sell them on Ebay for local pickup? Surely someone could use them. 

We are starting to see more LED rope lighting taking the place of neon, but it appears to be a couple of years from being main stream. HO still seems to be the standard for much of what is out there in signage. It handles the cold better than standard T8. I wouldn't want to own too much stock of it though.


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

I also have a few cases of VHO lamps called T17 Power Groove. Made by GE. These are some weird looking Flourescent tubes. They look like standard tubes (except much larger diameter), but they are pinched flat every couple inches along the tube lenght. What in gods name is the reason for this design? The 6' tubes are 215watt each. High school gave all this crud to me, boxes and boxes of stuff brand new from the early 70's.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

I had some of those fluorescent lamps in stock for many years, they are High Output. They were used for lighting on islands over gas pumps. I finally dumped the last two I had. No-one wanted them.


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Electric Al said:


> I had some of those fluorescent lamps in stock for many years, they are High Output. They were used for lighting on islands over gas pumps. I finally dumped the last two I had. No-one wanted them.


 Don't they look funky? I wonder if that was for looks or served some purpose in the lamp performance.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

According to this page, those lights may have some value to collectors. Pretty cool. 

http://bulbcollector.com/forum/index.php?topic=523.0

another recent discussion on them here too:

http://www.lighting-gallery.net/index.php?topic=1352.0

From Wiki:



> *High output/very high output lamps*
> 
> High-output lamps are brighter and draw more electrical current, have different ends on the pins so they cannot be used in the wrong fixture, and are labeled F##T##HO, or F##T##VHO for very high output. Since about the early to mid 1950s to today, General Electric developed and improved the _Power Groove_ lamp with the label F##PG17. These lamps are recognizable by their large diameter (17/8" or 21/8"), grooved tube shape and an R17d cap on each end of them.


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> According to this page, those lights may have some value to collectors. Pretty cool.
> 
> http://bulbcollector.com/forum/index.php?topic=523.0
> 
> ...


 That is very interesting, There are people out there who want this stuff. I notice in that second link that they even want those big heavy ballast to run T17 PG's. I got so many of those brand new in the original Advance boxes. The old Advance logo is better than the new design. I guess I won't be tossing this stuff afterall. I wonder what else of this crap in my garage is collectible. Maybe those 60 amp 5 wire Hubblelock recepticles are worth keeping too.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Would anyone like a large load of PCB ballasts lol? I will hook you up!


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## fastfreddy (May 11, 2010)

The idea behind the power groove fluorescent lamp shape is to make the distance that the lamp arc must travel longer, while maintaining a standard 8 foot lamp length.

Increasing the arc length increases the lamp power and provides more light output.

The lamp is still manufactured today.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

> Are T12 high outputs still the standard for plexiglass enclosed signs? Or has T8's replaced T12's in plastic signs? I have a ton of HO ballast and 8 cases of T12 HO 96" lamps. I'm wondering if I should even hang on to this stuff. It takes up alot of space. I also have a ton of T12 VHO ballast, what would these be good for? I hate to throw out brand new ballast, but I don't want to store big heavy parts I can't use.


I really don't know much about signs, but F96T12/CW/HO 110W is still legal for outdoor and low temperature service and I believe they will continue to be legal after 2012, but 86W T8 HOs have the same light output, so it doesn't make economic sense from users point of view. They'll probably have a place for legacy maintenance jobs, but unless you don't miss the space they're using and willing to risk higher disposal cost as environmental regulations tightens, get rid of 'em even if it means pennies on the dollar on Craigslist. Better, find a job where you can install them for labor + disposal cost of old lamps or do it for a NPO and write off the full retail cost of lamps as tax deductible donation. 

Personally, I'd be interested in exploring extreme temperature T5HOs. 54W lamps have a similar per-foot loading as 110W HO T12 lamps and the output doesn't sag even if it gets hot inside on hot days. 

http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/p-5924.pdf





fastfreddy said:


> The idea behind the power groove fluorescent lamp shape is to make the distance that the lamp arc must travel longer, while maintaining a standard 8 foot lamp length.
> 
> Increasing the arc length increases the lamp power and provides more light output.
> 
> The lamp is still manufactured today.



The former Duro Test used to make Vita Lite Power Twist based on similar concepts. It looks cool, I'm not sure about real merit.


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