# Getting into an IBEW Apprenticeship



## LGLS

The IBEW apprenticeship program is not expecting you to have any prior electrical experience or schooling, so that's not the reason they didn't accept you.


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## cwsims84

Do these locals have material handlers? That’s a good door in... also, I’ve worked non union and union... why not just go non union and continue to apply, I can ALMOST guarantee if you go non union and then apply, you’ll be ranked top 25. Non union isn’t that bad, worst case scenario, you spend 4yrs non union and then organize in.


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## username_placeholder

Thanks LawnGuyLandSparky and cwsims84 for the insight. I can't go for a non-union apprenticeship right now, because I'm still on the wait list for that. They do have something called the "CW [construction worker] program", which might be like being a material handler like you mentioned, so I guess I'll give that a shot.


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## joebanana

Don't feel bad, back in the early 90's I was rejected" by local 11 because, and I quote, "I didn't have any family in the union". I had around 15 years experience, and was doing industrial new construction, and maintenance electrical. They spun me right at the door. It was a different time for unions back then. A few years after that local 477 welcomed me with open arms. Even put me in the advanced apprenticeship program. But I had around 20 years experience by then. Bottom line, get some experience, and try again.


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## username_placeholder

joebanana said:


> Don't feel bad, back in the early 90's I was rejected" by local 11 because, and I quote, "I didn't have any family in the union". I had around 15 years experience, and was doing industrial new construction, and maintenance electrical. They spun me right at the door. It was a different time for unions back then. A few years after that local 477 welcomed me with open arms. Even put me in the advanced apprenticeship program. But I had around 20 years experience by then. Bottom line, get some experience, and try again.


joebanana, do you have any advice on how to get experience? All the jobs on indeed seem to be asking for people with experience.


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## joebanana

username_placeholder said:


> joebanana, do you have any advice on how to get experience? All the jobs on indeed seem to be asking for people with experience.


The CW/CE program is a recent development union-wise. It's a dual function program, in that it provides a foot in the door for the inexperienced, and cheap labor for the signatories. I'm not real familiar with the inner workings of the program, but after so many hours you can go right into the apprenticeship. And, there seem to be an abundance of them on projects. Talk to an organizer about it.


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## username_placeholder

joebanana said:


> the cw/ce program is a recent development union-wise. It's a dual function program, in that it provides a foot in the door for the inexperienced, and cheap labor for the signatories. I'm not real familiar with the inner workings of the program, but after so many hours you can go right into the apprenticeship. And, there seem to be an abundance of them on projects. Talk to an organizer about it.


thank you.


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## 277boy

Do the CW if you can.. I've applied before a few times to different locals with no success. Moved to my current local, got working about two months back as a CW and applied for apprenticeship. Just got the info for the orientation at the end of the month. 

It seems there is some animosity toward the CW but of you show interest in the trade and are working towards the apprenticeship you'll be treated fine.


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## stiffneck

What you need is a "Father In law" or a "Brother In law" or volunteer for a Democrat committeeman, to work the polls or phone bank or the like.
Here in Saint Louis, Missouri we have Local-2, which did this. Local-2 imported a guy from Czechoslovakia. This young man only had one thing going for him. His sister was married to a guy down at the hall, that's it. He had to be taught how to read, right, speak English and how to drive in the US, then try for his CDL. His apprenticeship started back in 2013. A time when other guys where bailing out of Saint Louis all together, because there was no work anywhere for them. Back in 2014, this import apprentice complained that I and my guys weren't using the out riggers on our 40' basket/bucket truck. His journey approached me and asked me why we weren't using the "outriggers". I looked at the truck, then I looked back at him and said; "The reason where not using the outriggers is because that truck DOESN'T HAVE ANY and if it did, we would be using them". At this point you could have heard a sharpie drop onto US Hwy-67 going underneath Runway 11-29. That's when the j-man threw the apprent. under the bus, said he wasn't sure how he's going to work out. And, told me the story of how that dummy got in. I asked, what's wrong with allowing someone local to come in and do an apprenticeship. The j-man turned and walked away. FPN, if an employer wants to hire an employees son, grandson, nephew no problems with that. But when that employer is forced to take someone they don't want and not allowed to hire you, what's that called? There's a name for it, but can't seem to remember.

If you don't have "Nepotism" available to you, you are wasting your time. FPN; also, be aware that hours/years worked as a "second class" citizen do NOT count towards any retirement/health care benefits. Something else you won't be told either.


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## stiffneck

joebanana said:


> Don't feel bad, back in the early 90's I was rejected" by local 11 because, and I quote, "I didn't have any family in the union". I had around 15 years experience, and was doing industrial new construction, and maintenance electrical. They spun me right at the door. *It was a different time for unions back then*. A few years after that local 477 welcomed me with open arms. Even put me in the advanced apprenticeship program. But I had around 20 years experience by then. Bottom line, get some experience, and try again.



Has that changed? Certainly not around here, for locals 1 and 2.


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## TGGT

stiffneck said:


> What you need is a "Father In law" or a "Brother In law" or volunteer for a Democrat committeeman, to work the polls or phone bank or the like.
> Here in Saint Louis, Missouri we have Local-2, which did this. Local-2 imported a guy from Czechoslovakia. This young man only had one thing going for him. His sister was married to a guy down at the hall, that's it. He had to be taught how to read, right, speak English and how to drive in the US, then try for his CDL. His apprenticeship started back in 2013. A time when other guys where bailing out of Saint Louis all together, because there was no work anywhere for them. Back in 2014, this import apprentice complained that I and my guys weren't using the out riggers on our 40' basket/bucket truck. His journey approached me and asked me why we weren't using the "outriggers". I looked at the truck, then I looked back at him and said; "The reason where not using the outriggers is because that truck DOESN'T HAVE ANY and if it did, we would be using them". At this point you could have heard a sharpie drop onto US Hwy-67 going underneath Runway 11-29. That's when the j-man threw the apprent. under the bus, said he wasn't sure how he's going to work out. And, told me the story of how that dummy got in. I asked, what's wrong with allowing someone local to come in and do an apprenticeship. The j-man turned and walked away. FPN, if an employer wants to hire an employees son, grandson, nephew no problems with that. But when that employer is forced to take someone they don't want and not allowed to hire you, what's that called? There's a name for it, but can't seem to remember.
> 
> If you don't have "Nepotism" available to you, you are wasting your time. FPN; also, be aware that hours/years worked as a "second class" citizen do NOT count towards any retirement/health care benefits. Something else you won't be told either.


Here in Dallas anybody can join the IBEW. It's like open shop but with better pay.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## stiffneck

TGGT said:


> Here in Dallas anybody can join the IBEW. It's like open shop but with better pay.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Do the hours/years worked go towards retirement pension/health care benefits?


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## TGGT

stiffneck said:


> Do the hours/years worked go towards retirement pension/health care benefits?


Yup. Last I checked it was about $2.50 towards pension and $5.50 for health insurance. Probably a bit higher now.

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## cwsims84

TGGT said:


> Yup. Last I checked it was about $2.50 towards pension and $5.50 for health insurance. Probably a bit higher now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


My Total package here in Portland when I was still working for the man was $86hr(including all the bull**** the company pays to the union that doesn’t mean ****) main benefits being $49hr on the check, $13hr towards pensions and $10hr towards health benefits


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## stiffneck

TGGT said:


> Yup. Last I checked it was about $2.50 towards pension and $5.50 for health insurance. Probably a bit higher now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


My bad for not being more specific. Do the hours/years count if you don't have an IBEW Journeyman's card. This is what is known as "second class citizenship" inside a 2-tier club.


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## TGGT

stiffneck said:


> My bad for not being more specific. Do the hours/years count if you don't have an IBEW Journeyman's card. This is what is known as "second class citizenship" inside a 2-tier club.


Our CE and CWs qualify for the pension, but not the annuity.

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## joebanana

stiffneck said:


> Has that changed? Certainly not around here, for locals 1 and 2.


I would like to think so, but......some locals are just more accepting than others, I suspect. I've noticed a few of the apprentices I've worked with lately have family in the local.


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## Alec thenice

*Unions in LA*



username_placeholder said:


> Hello everybody. I'm trying to get into an IBEW apprenticeship program here in Los Angeles, but I have no experience. I've interviewed with three different locals and wasn't accepted into any of them. I'm wondering what is the best thing for me to do -- go to school or get some experience?


Unions in LA are no joke, my buddy was lucky enough to have his dad be able to get him in the CW union, I asked if he could help me out since we played lacrosse together and he told me it doesn't work like that. I just interviewed with my local here in Virginia, there seems to be a more welcoming environment in medium level rural areas when I compare that to places out west that I have lived like LA and SF California. I know that's not what a guy from LA wants to hear.


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## Alec thenice

*My union experience*



stiffneck said:


> What you need is a "Father In law" or a "Brother In law" or volunteer for a Democrat committeeman, to work the polls or phone bank or the like.
> Here in Saint Louis, Missouri we have Local-2, which did this. Local-2 imported a guy from Czechoslovakia. This young man only had one thing going for him. His sister was married to a guy down at the hall, that's it. He had to be taught how to read, right, speak English and how to drive in the US, then try for his CDL. His apprenticeship started back in 2013. A time when other guys where bailing out of Saint Louis all together, because there was no work anywhere for them. Back in 2014, this import apprentice complained that I and my guys weren't using the out riggers on our 40' basket/bucket truck. His journey approached me and asked me why we weren't using the "outriggers". I looked at the truck, then I looked back at him and said; "The reason where not using the outriggers is because that truck DOESN'T HAVE ANY and if it did, we would be using them". At this point you could have heard a sharpie drop onto US Hwy-67 going underneath Runway 11-29. That's when the j-man threw the apprent. under the bus, said he wasn't sure how he's going to work out. And, told me the story of how that dummy got in. I asked, what's wrong with allowing someone local to come in and do an apprenticeship. The j-man turned and walked away. FPN, if an employer wants to hire an employees son, grandson, nephew no problems with that. But when that employer is forced to take someone they don't want and not allowed to hire you, what's that called? There's a name for it, but can't seem to remember.
> 
> If you don't have "Nepotism" available to you, you are wasting your time. FPN; also, be aware that hours/years worked as a "second class" citizen do NOT count towards any retirement/health care benefits. Something else you won't be told either.


Where did you begin your career? I take it not the IBEW? The local I have experience with seems honest to me. They are probably considered good 'ole boys but that's how it is where I live. I crossed paths with four end of year one apprentices before my interview (think that went well btw) and they didn't seem to have any apparent nepotism working in their favor. That being said, I want to be an electrician before I want to be a union member so any info about good beginner gigs would help me out. Thanks for sharing that story


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## TGGT

People unable to join the IBEW for BS reasons should consider forming their own trade union. The IBEW shouldn't get to decide who can join a union or not.

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## LGLS

TGGT said:


> People unable to join the IBEW for BS reasons should consider forming their own trade union. The IBEW shouldn't get to decide who can join a union or not.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh: 



Sorry, the cream rises to the top. We once got an entire shop just walked into the hall asking to be organized - something like 18 employees. All here on student or tourist visas.


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## Alec thenice

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the cream rises to the top. We once got an entire shop just walked into the hall asking to be organized - something like 18 employees. All here on student or tourist visas.


 Surely prospective members of an American trade union must have citizenship. I dont think that is a BS reason


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## TGGT

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the cream rises to the top. We once got an entire shop just walked into the hall asking to be organized - something like 18 employees. All here on student or tourist visas.


The IBEW does not have dominion over unionization, nor should they.

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## TGGT

Alec thenice said:


> Surely prospective members of an American trade union must have citizenship. I dont think that is a BS reason


It is the INTERNATIONAL brotherhood of electrical workers, not National.

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## splatz

TGGT said:


> The IBEW does not have dominion over unionization, nor should they.


This is something to think hard about ... I don't think anyone could say for sure but I think its likely the tradesman would benefit from competition between trade unions. 

Of course the existing trade unions and their members would only stand to lose if their monopoly was disrupted, so I wouldn't expect them to be in favor. But they are the minority. 

If it became a real thing, I bet the legacy trade unions would stop resting on their laurels, dividing the cream up between their sons nephews and brother in laws.


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## HertzHound

The carpenters union in St Louis started their own electrical division to compete with the IBEW. Not sure whatever happened. 

I’m sure Stiffneck could put a spin on it.


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## HertzHound

Also there is two sprinkler fitters unions here. One is AFL-CIO one is not.


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## TGGT

splatz said:


> This is something to think hard about ... I don't think anyone could say for sure but I think its likely the tradesman would benefit from competition between trade unions.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the existing trade unions and their members would only stand to lose if their monopoly was disrupted, so I wouldn't expect them to be in favor. But they are the minority.
> 
> 
> 
> If it became a real thing, I bet the legacy trade unions would stop resting on their laurels, dividing the cream up between their sons nephews and brother in laws.


The IBEW is essentially a monopolistic franchise, they have established economic and political infrastructure on their side. I could only imagine an idealistic, radical businessman being able to successfully pull off starting a competing union.

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## Alec thenice

TGGT said:


> It is the INTERNATIONAL brotherhood of electrical workers, not National.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I know but the ability to vote has somthing to do with the whole reason we organize. I had always thought it was political and legal representation. I get international is in the name


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## Coppersmith

Alec thenice said:


> Where did you begin your career? I take it not the IBEW? The local I have experience with seems honest to me. They are probably considered good 'ole boys but that's how it is where I live. I crossed paths with four end of year one apprentices before my interview (think that went well btw) and they didn't seem to have any apparent nepotism working in their favor. That being said, I want to be an electrician before I want to be a union member so any info about good beginner gigs would help me out. Thanks for sharing that story


Each local is run by it's local members so you will see differences among locals in how they act and recruit. Years ago it was hard to get into the union because many locals were protecting the jobs of their members. They didn't want to grow too big and have guys fighting over work. Unfortunately, this caused shortages of workers and pissed off union employers who needed men. These employer's left the union and the members were left to fight over the remaining work.

Realizing the folly of their actions, the union is much more open to recruiting now. The CE/CW program is an example of that. Electricians who are organized in from non-union jobs are placed in this program and are not required to go through the apprenticeship program (although it's encouraged).

The thought process now is "if we have plenty of men, the employers will sign up to gain access to the men". The ultimate goal would be to get ALL the men and have a monopoly. That will never happen of course.


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## LGLS

International in the name doesn't mean a local is obliged to represent illegal aliens. Whatever synapses fired in your brain to come to that conclusion is probably the reason the IBEW told you to tell your story walkin'...


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## Coppersmith

TGGT said:


> People unable to join the IBEW for BS reasons should consider forming their own trade union.





TGGT said:


> The IBEW is essentially a monopolistic franchise, they have established economic and political infrastructure on their side. I could only imagine an idealistic, radical businessman being able to successfully pull off starting a competing union.


As both a IBEW signatory employer and an IBEW member, I get a lot of insight into how things work in the local. Running the local is an incredibly hard balancing act and also a chicken and egg problem. It would be very difficult to start a competing union. 

The union wants new signatories, but can't guarantee they will have enough workers to supply these companies. This makes it hard to sign up companies. When there are shortfalls, signatories go elsewhere. There are contracts in place and the union will try to make it hard to leave, but companies do leave.

The union wants more members, but can't guarantee jobs. When wo/men sit on the out-of-work list for a while, they start to jump ship for non-union work. There are rules in place to try and prevent this, but it happens often. If workers would be patient, the union could wield much more control over employers. But workers need money to survive and aren't patient for very long.

If both companies and members held fast, starting a union would be easy. They don't. Also the AFL-CIO with all it's money supporting member union efforts isn't going to recognize a competing union.


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## TGGT

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> International in the name doesn't mean a local is obliged to represent illegal aliens. Whatever synapses fired in your brain to come to that conclusion is probably the reason the IBEW told you to tell your story walkin'...


Our refusal to represent illegal labor is why we will always be second to non-union shops, they get all the spoils of illegal labor and we complain about how we can't compete with their prices.

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## TGGT

Coppersmith said:


> As both a IBEW signatory employer and an IBEW member, I get a lot of insight into how things work in the local. Running the local is an incredibly hard balancing act and also a chicken and egg problem. It would be very difficult to start a competing union.
> 
> The union wants new signatories, but can't guarantee they will have enough workers to supply these companies. This makes it hard to sign up companies. When there are shortfalls, signatories go elsewhere. There are contracts in place and the union will try to make it hard to leave, but companies do leave.
> 
> The union wants more members, but can't guarantee jobs. When wo/men sit on the out-of-work list for a while, they start to jump ship for non-union work. There are rules in place to try and prevent this, but it happens often. If workers would be patient, the union could wield much more control over employers. But workers need money to survive and aren't patient for very long.
> 
> If both companies and members held fast, starting a union would be easy. They don't. Also the AFL-CIO with all it's money supporting member union efforts isn't going to recognize a competing union.


The AFL-CIO does not have recognize any union. Again, they don't have dominion on who gets to be union. United Electrical and Radio Workers (UE) are an independent union.

I'm just saying that people should know there can be alternatives to the IBEW. It doesn't have to be IBEW or nothing at all.

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## bostonPedro

username_placeholder said:


> Hello everybody. I'm trying to get into an IBEW apprenticeship program here in Los Angeles, but I have no experience. I've interviewed with three different locals and wasn't accepted into any of them. I'm wondering what is the best thing for me to do -- go to school or get some experience?


In my state you have to take a test that was designed and administered by the state. Did you have to do the same? 

Also a newer development is a CW tag for apprentices who failed the test. They work for one year. After 1 year their working hours will be looked over, they will be interviewed and possibly contractor will be asked about them...still new and in the works so the last part may not be true


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## bostonPedro

TGGT said:


> The IBEW is essentially a monopolistic franchise, they have established economic and political infrastructure on their side. I could only imagine an idealistic, radical businessman being able to successfully pull off starting a competing union.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Wrong. Typically unions just respect each others trade. Carpenters who are not part of the AFL_CIO tried to start their own electrical union unit in St Louis and the IBEW went right after them as they should have. Carpenters left the AFL CIO and joined change to win union which is a complete joke


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## cyrusalmighty

cwsims84 said:


> Do these locals have material handlers? That’s a good door in... also, I’ve worked non union and union... why not just go non union and continue to apply, I can ALMOST guarantee if you go non union and then apply, you’ll be ranked top 25. Non union isn’t that bad, worst case scenario, you spend 4yrs non union and then organize in.


I agree. In my case I passed the test for 2 electricial Unions and Linesmen Union, didn't ace the interviews and sat on waiting lists until I finally couldn't wait anymore. I went to night classes and got into non-union apprenticeship.

Im not far from my E2 Journeyman License exam now and maybe I can join a union later. 

Last guy who worked with my company did some of his apprenticeship here and spent a year or 2 after getting license here and got called for union. He said its great for him there now in comparison. I think you can still make it to union after the fact if thats what you want.

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## stiffneck

Alec thenice said:


> Where did you begin your career? I take it not the IBEW? The local I have experience with seems honest to me. They are probably considered good 'ole boys but that's how it is where I live. I crossed paths with four end of year one apprentices before my interview (think that went well btw) and they didn't seem to have any apparent nepotism working in their favor. That being said, I want to be an electrician before I want to be a union member so any info about good beginner gigs would help me out. Thanks for sharing that story


Good question... I had to think about it for a bit. I don't have a career, so there was no beginning. Instead I have a job and before that another job and before that another job and before that some post secondary education and jobs before that. I'm not considered an Electrician nor do I have a journeyman's card in any electrical classification. Never mind the fact that I'm the one who had to teach the young Electrical Foreman from Sach's Electric how troubleshoot his first to science projects, because they didn't work. And I was one of two who set up a job for Guarantee Electric. Guys like me never get credit, we're just taken for granted, sometimes assumed we have a j-card from ibew. Now, it's not that I didn't think it was necessary to do an apprenticeship, or didn't try. From 1985-2000 I tried breaking in and finally said the heck with it. By 2000 I had already worked 5-years at Airport Electric Shop with it's ups and downs. Today someone starting out (in Saint Louis) can go IEC or AEC (Local-57) and these have nothing to do with ibew. The first 7-years I worked at Airport Electric Shop I paid dues to ibew local-1. The only thing ibew-1 did was take our money and laugh in our face. When we stopped paying nothing was said, because ibew didn't want to represent us in the first place. As far as getting into ibew today, the only thing I can tell you is this; From 2002-2015 ibew dropped by 500,000 members, U.S. numbers only, not sure about Canada. Their International developed a U-Tube video (2015) to "teach" hiring halls how to hire. Find one of those halls that "gets it" to get started, may have to move to another area to do so.


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## stiffneck

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the cream rises to the top. We once got an entire shop just walked into the hall asking to be organized - something like 18 employees. All here on student or tourist visas.



Speaking of "cream" here's what your "cream" looks like :vs_laugh:


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## splatz

*Q. How is the world's largest electrical union 
*









*like a hillbilly girl's pants? * 










*A. The hardest part about getting into them 
is convincing them you're their cousin.*


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## LGLS

stiffneck said:


> Speaking of "cream" here's what your "cream" looks like :vs_laugh:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G45TUZbg8E





How is this video relevant to the IBEW?


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## stiffneck

HertzHound said:


> The carpenters union in St Louis started their own electrical division to compete with the IBEW. Not sure whatever happened.
> 
> I’m sure Stiffneck could put a spin on it.


 Facts and History don't spin. So what "spin" are you accusing me of?
The information you are looking for (Local-57 AEC) is on the Internet. So why ask me if you think I'm someone who; "put a spin on it".


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## stiffneck

bostonPedro said:


> *Wrong*. Typically unions just respect each others trade. Carpenters who are not part of the AFL_CIO tried to start their own electrical union unit in St Louis and the IBEW went right after them as they should have. Carpenters left the AFL CIO and joined change to win union which is a complete joke


 Wrong, it's ibew-1 who crosses a UAW picket line at the Chrysler plants in Fenton(St. Louis), MO. late 80's. Wrong, it's ibew-1 who crosses a Machinist picket line at Boeing in Berkerley(Airport), MO. 1998. Wrong, it's ibew-1 who pisses off Labor local-110, (FPN; these are the Sopranos) of Saint Louis, MO. Wrong, it's ibew-1 who starts a fight with the much smaller Elevator/Operator local-3 and looses at Convention Center early 00's. Wrong, it's the ibew-1 who started it with the Carpenters at the Lumiere Casino over who gets to plug in either adjustable window awnings or louvers. I forgot which, but the stories are posted, if you care to read about it. After that, there's ibew-2 here in Saint Louis, MO. Who takes in someone from Eastern Europe over someone domestic during a bust economy. And they wonder why "them there trade schools" are doing so well and employers are hiring graduates directly.
Hope Ur local back east has more brains than "them there" people do.


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## stiffneck

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> How is this video relevant to the IBEW?


 It's a parody of some of your ibew working here at my Airport over the last 24 years. The fun stopped when some got Electrocuted. The incident was sad, tragic and HIGHLY PREVENTABLE. Then a few years later, an arc flash incident, one of which would never be able to work again. And the rumor got started that it was one of us, who just random threw the switch on.


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## stiffneck

joebanana said:


> I would like to think so, but......some locals are just more accepting than others, I suspect. I've noticed a few of the apprentices I've worked with lately have family in the local.


I'm one of those who never was allowed to test (hands on or written) or interview, stand before a board etc. Just love it when one comes along and just assumes that I "didn't make it", or pass some test. I've even passed the "masters exam" at the time the cit-ay was using Experior testing company and it was the 100 questions and needed 75 correct in 4-hours. Guess who filed with the Electrical board to try and stop me. Yup, good ol ibew local-1. Now I've been told that I can go down to their hall and go to work as early as the next day  Now this same club is trying to stop it's own members from getting the all new "state" license. Plus, the St. Louis County Executive has been indicted and may actually go to jail, instead of just a fine. It's a pay to play scheme that hopefully will pull some ibew into the vortex. Long overdue cleaning of house needed here in Saint Louis.


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## Southeast Power

username_placeholder said:


> Hello everybody. I'm trying to get into an IBEW apprenticeship program here in Los Angeles, but I have no experience. I've interviewed with three different locals and wasn't accepted into any of them. I'm wondering what is the best thing for me to do -- go to school or get some experience?


OP,
I sorry the guys took the opportunity to crap on your thread.
Yes, there are some exceptions but, if you have a shot to get in, take it. :smile:


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## HertzHound

stiffneck said:


> Facts and History don't spin. So what "spin" are you accusing me of?
> The information you are looking for (Local-57 AEC) is on the Internet. So why ask me if you think I'm someone who; "put a spin on it".



Well my post was pretty short. So I'm sure it looks like I didn't really have a point. Basically the thread leading up to this point was about an elitist trade union not opening up it's doors. The argument being lets just start a new Union. Then the part of the post above mine which caught my eye said... 





> This is something to think hard about ... I don't think anyone could say for sure but I think its likely the tradesman would benefit from competition between trade unions.
> 
> Of course the existing trade unions and their members would only stand to lose if their monopoly was disrupted, so I wouldn't expect them to be in favor. But they are the minority.
> 
> If it became a real thing, I bet the legacy trade unions would stop resting on their laurels, dividing the cream up between their sons nephews and brother in laws.


My point, without explaining it before, was that others have started competing trade unions. They started these to drive down the labor rates, not to break up nepotism. Since every post you make about the Unions is about nepotism I figured you could put a different spin on it.


It's hard for anyone here to set a standard on labor rates. The same guy that will complain about a trunk slammer driving down rates, probably just drove down the rates on some other competitive bid job. From what I understand the carpenters, which were not affiliated with the AFL-CIO at the time, started the electrical division to get the labor rate down so their GC's would get more work. Sounds like a race to the bottom to me. I don't see how this would benefit tradesmen.


As for me, I have no relatives in the Union. Probably 75% of my local didn't have relatives either. I didn't know a soul when I went down there. The last 25% you would probably have anywhere. I started with a father and two sons company Non-Union. There was one other mechanic. Guess who would be the first to go if things got slow? It wouldn't be me, I was making minimum wage. Next company was a bigger company that only did industrial. Half the company all came from US Steel when they closed here. Once one guy was hired, he got all his buddies hired. The Unions didn't start the phrase "It's not who you know....."


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## stiffneck

HertzHound said:


> Well my post was pretty short. So I'm sure it looks like I didn't really have a point. Basically the thread leading up to this point was about an elitist trade union not opening up it's doors. The argument being lets just start a new Union. Then the part of the post above mine which caught my eye said...
> 
> 
> 
> My point, without explaining it before, was that others have started competing trade unions. They started these to drive down the labor rates, not to break up nepotism. Since every post you make about the Unions is about nepotism I figured you could put a different spin on it.
> 
> 
> It's hard for anyone here to set a standard on labor rates. The same guy that will complain about a trunk slammer driving down rates, probably just drove down the rates on some other competitive bid job. From what I understand the carpenters, which were not affiliated with the AFL-CIO at the time, started the electrical division to get the labor rate down so their GC's would get more work. Sounds like a race to the bottom to me. I don't see how this would benefit tradesmen.
> 
> 
> As for me, I have no relatives in the Union. Probably 75% of my local didn't have relatives either. I didn't know a soul when I went down there. The last 25% you would probably have anywhere. I started with a father and two sons company Non-Union. There was one other mechanic. Guess who would be the first to go if things got slow? It wouldn't be me, I was making minimum wage. Next company was a bigger company that only did industrial. Half the company all came from US Steel when they closed here. Once one guy was hired, he got all his buddies hired. The Unions didn't start the phrase "It's not who you know....."



I took your statement as "spin" or spinning facts and history. I just finished a detailed response but it disappeared, so I'll keep it brief this time. Just met the "57" contractor the other day. The project they are doing does include 47 miles of new cable when complete. "57" was started as a dispute as to who was going to plug something in. Yes we are talk petty and that does describe St. Louis. To late in life to just up and leave, should have gone years ago. To the OP, there are alternatives to ibew.


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## 1pattic1

Just told I was accepted into the Hybrid Apprenticeship. Is this even worth it or should I just ask to be placed on the regular electrical apprenticeship list? This does pay less than the traditional route. Does anyone know how long it takes?


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## CholulaSauceMan

*Getting into ETI Electrician Program via IBEW Local 11 Apprenticeship*

Hi All, 

I am new to Electrician Talk just joined for some insight into the process of becoming an Electrician via IBEW Local 11 Apprenticeship program. I just applied to the program and have yet to here from them to take the entrance exam. 
After high school I decided to go to college at UCSD, but that has not worked out well for me since I graduated. So now I am pursuing something more practical that I know I will like since I was in high school the physics of electricity have always intrigued me. I am fundamentally strong with Math and physics as I took Calculus and Physics Honors in High School. I am confident I will do well in the entrance exam, but I want to know how long the entire process takes: From Application completion, entrance exam, oral interview, to first day of class. Any info regarding what tools or things I will be needing to start class would also be greatly appreciated. I am very excited in becoming a full-fledged member of the electrician community so i want to make entrance process as quick and smooth as possible.


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## Alec thenice

CholulaSauceMan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new to Electrician Talk just joined for some insight into the process of becoming an Electrician via IBEW Local 11 Apprenticeship program. I just applied to the program and have yet to here from them to take the entrance exam.
> After high school I decided to go to college at UCSD, but that has not worked out well for me since I graduated. So now I am pursuing something more practical that I know I will like since I was in high school the physics of electricity have always intrigued me. I am fundamentally strong with Math and physics as I took Calculus and Physics Honors in High School. I am confident I will do well in the entrance exam, but I want to know how long the entire process takes: From Application completion, entrance exam, oral interview, to first day of class. Any info regarding what tools or things I will be needing to start class would also be greatly appreciated. I am very excited in becoming a full-fledged member of the electrician community so i want to make entrance process as quick and smooth as possible.


The acceptance process for local 80 in chesapeake VA took me about two months, i believe the process is governed by work the union expects to get and instructor availability. The test was a cake walk, I too had a similar education backround. The oral interview was not very intimidating, the group of representatives seemed to want to know my backround and work experience and gain a sense of my charecter. I never did attend a union apprentice class. While I was working as a helper for a non union contractor I was approached by a foreman from John Hall Electric and was soon hired on at that contractor as an apprentice and am now in my second year of training with the virginia chapter of Associated Bussinesses and contractors. If you are in need of work and money I reccomend trying to find a quality non union contractor to higher you. Non union shops often pay higher wages since raises/rates are merit based rather than seniority based (or connection based). There is also many education options offered by non union contractors but that being said it is also your responsibility to inform your employer that you want more education and plan on getting your Jcard. Dont let the slowness of the union slow down your career is my closing peice of advice.


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## CholulaSauceMan

Thank you for your advice! I will be looking into working with a non-union contractor to build up my experience in that area. Hope all is well on the East Coast.


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## Alec thenice

CholulaSauceMan said:


> Thank you for your advice! I will be looking into working with a non-union contractor to build up my experience in that area. Hope all is well on the East Coast.


All is good bro, being an electrician/apprentice is a lifestyle somtimes though. Try to get into service work so you can see a lot of different aspects of the trade and find where you fit and what you like. That route did me right


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## Easy

The sooner you start working union or non-union the better. Get some experience under your belt and start earning money. Talk to other electricians in your area and maybe there will be an opening for you. I meet all kinds of electricians just taking walks with my dog in the morning. The best way to get a job is though someone. I was very supersized that within a 2 block radius of my home there are 5 electricians. One works for the power company SCE and inspects transmission lines, there is an electrical foreman that works in LA, another one is a contractor and another just does electrical testing on switch gear. They all are potential shoe ins for work. My current employer is a general contractor and was my next door neighbor. Don't waist your time with places like indeed or jobs.com ... Put yourself out there face to face just like the good old days before Al Gore invented the internet.


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