# Commercial Mixer Help



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

it says 220 at 60hz , and I can't tell if you might need 24v for control voltage.

this looks like internal schematic and you just need to land power ? you aren't going to have to build it are you ? (that would suck) I'd wait to see the machine, more than likely you just need to supply the power you already know what you need (but that's just me)

I haven't done a bakery and I don't know what the safety requirements are (do you need foot pedal/deadman's switch/safety switches ?)


----------



## circuitman1 (Mar 14, 2013)

i agree with wildleg. all you need to do is supply with 3 phase 240. the print seems to call for a supply of 200-240 volts 50/60 hz. so you ought to be good to go.:thumbsup:


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, it says 220V 50/60Hz, and you have 240V, so it's a little on the high side, but probably fine. I would not invest in transformers yet. 

What I would do is hook it up and have him run as large of a load of dough as he thinks he is ever going to make. While it is running, put a clamp-on ammeter on the main mixer motor and see if it is pulling more than the rated FLC. If it is not, you're golden. If the amp reading is higher than the nameplate, you should buck down to 220V, but do NOT go all the way down to 200V.

I too am hoping for your sake that the whole machine is pre-packaged and wired up, all you need to do is feed power to the input terminals.

But if not, you picked a doozie of a place to start learning about 3 phase motor wiring if you have to make up the motor leads on that Wye-Delta motor. If you do, hopefully all the terminal numbers that show on the drawings are actually there in the connection points. If so, just do EXACTLY what they say. 

Then if the motors spin backward, swap leads on the INPUT side of the cabinet. Both motors should have been phased together at the factory so swapping on the input side will change them both.


----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)

JRaef said:


> Well, it says 220V 50/60Hz, and you have 240V, so it's a little on the high side, but probably fine. I would not invest in transformers yet.
> 
> What I would do is hook it up and have him run as large of a load of dough as he thinks he is ever going to make. While it is running, put a clamp-on ammeter on the main mixer motor and see if it is pulling more than the rated FLC. If it is not, you're golden. If the amp reading is higher than the nameplate, you should buck down to 220V, but do NOT go all the way down to 200V.
> 
> ...


Follow his advice I agree with him. He is one of the best here I hope you won't need a trouble shooting. Which kind of mixer do you have shaffer or Hobart mixer let us know.


----------



## Northbank (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks for the input so far, guys. Really appreciate it. It seemed simple, but I'd much rather be safe than sorry. That's why I came to the experts.

The mixer is a WP Kemper. I've never heard of it. Looks like this one. It's the SP 50 model.

http://www.wpbakerygroupusa.com/site/food-service/mixing/

It appears that is has built-in overload protection. Should I wire a contactor between the disconnect and the mixer? It appears that the bowl motor runs both clockwise and counter clockwise. Is that an important consideration?

Here's a link to a cut sheet that has a little more info.

http://www.wpbakerygroupusa.com/site/download/31/


----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)

Northbank said:


> Thanks for the input so far, guys. Really appreciate it. It seemed simple, but I'd much rather be safe than sorry. That's why I came to the experts.
> 
> The mixer is a WP Kemper. I've never heard of it. Looks like this one. It's the SP 50 model.
> 
> ...


This machine used or new? I never work with but. All electrical connection build up already inside machine. Just you need hook up main power. Operation part They need to know what they need for operation. 
Good luck


----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)

Aydin2011 said:


> This machine used or new? I never work with but. All electrical connection build up already inside machine. Just you need hook up main power. Operation part They need to know what they need for operation.
> Good luck


I think u need hook up this machine with chiller. In that way they can cool down to dough


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Northbank said:


> Thanks for the input so far, guys. Really appreciate it. It seemed simple, but I'd much rather be safe than sorry. That's why I came to the experts.
> 
> The mixer is a WP Kemper. I've never heard of it. Looks like this one. It's the SP 50 model.
> 
> ...


I see no reason to wire a contactor ahead of it, everything looks to be self contained. The reversing starter is already built into the control scheme, nothing for you to worry about at this point. 

I think your only concern is determining the correct feeder conductor sizes and OCPD for those in accordance with Article 430 of the NEC. But also remember that if they are going to be using high pressure cleaning, all electrical components you use must be NEMA 4 and if they will use caustic cleaning agents, NEMA 4X. I might consider making this plug-in as well, it would make it easier for them to move it if they grow later.


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Don't forget to check the control voltage. 24vac - 26.4vac should still be fine but you may need to put in a new one rated for 240v not to expensive


----------



## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

Are you sure you have 240v 3ph? That would mean there is a high leg so watch out for that if you need controls. Didn't look at the schematics but if it is 208 it may or may not run.


----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)

buddhakii said:


> Are you sure you have 240v 3ph? That would mean there is a high leg so watch out for that if you need controls. Didn't look at the schematics but if it is 208 it may or may not run.


Yes there is transformer might be high leg. 240 delta transformer 1 Hot and grounded conductor 240 v ac the other two legs when you measure with grounded conductor each one give u 120 vac. Between phase to phase 240vac He can not use high leg any light or anyting 110 ac..


----------



## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

Aydin2011 said:


> Yes there is transformer might be high leg. 240 delta transformer 1 Hot and grounded conductor 240 v ac the other two legs when you measure with grounded conductor each one give u 120 vac. Between phase to phase 240vac He can not use high leg any light or anyting 110 ac..


I did not see anywhere that said he has a delta service. He just stated he has 240 3ph. He may not have actually broken out a meter which means he probably has 208v.


----------



## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

buddhakii said:


> I did not see anywhere that said he has a delta service. He just stated he has 240 3ph.


His customer said he has 240V 3phase, it can therefore ONLY be a Delta service. 

The other scenario of assuming it "probably" is 208V is to start off by telling your customer you think he is ignorant. I've never found that to lead to a good working relationship. You might find it to be true later, but I would never lead with that...



buddhakii said:


> Are you sure you have 240v 3ph? That would mean there is a high leg ...


Not necessarilly, there are plenty of straight 240V delta services out there in light industrial facilities where the majority of loads are 3 phase.


----------



## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

I was just making a suggestion that he may have 208 and not 240 due to the fact that his first statement was that he is a resi guy and probably doesn't deal with 3 ph. a whole lot. I never suggested he call his customer ignorant, only that he should confirm what the voltage is. Not to mention his customer is a buddy that is just starting this business so what are the chances he truly knows what voltage is present. I thought that 240 delta always gives a high leg measured to ground.


----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)

It was statement you made I thought you were asking what is high leg delta 240 ac v transformer.


----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)

buddhakii said:


> I was just making a suggestion that he may have 208 and not 240 due to the fact that his first statement was that he is a resi guy and probably doesn't deal with 3 ph. a whole lot. I never suggested he call his customer ignorant, only that he should confirm what the voltage is. Not to mention his customer is a buddy that is just starting this business so what are the chances he truly knows what voltage is present. I thought that 240 delta always gives a high leg measured to ground.


Hey it was your statement there is I think you were asking what is delta 240 vac high leg transformer. Language is big deal in this field which is you may have a lot of knowledge but if can't explain what u are or what you mean it is worst less. I am taking more English classes ))


----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)




----------



## Aydin2011 (Apr 2, 2013)

I had enough


----------



## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

Aydin2011 said:


> Hey it was your statement there is I think you were asking what is delta 240 vac high leg transformer. Language is big deal in this field which is you may have a lot of knowledge but if can't explain what u are or what you mean it is worst less. I am taking more English classes ))


Very very true. Keep on taking those classes. Welcome to the USA.:thumbsup:


----------



## topo242 (5 d ago)

Northbank said:


> Hey guys. I'm a resi journeyman with no real motor experience, unless you count the occasional pool equipment room. 🇳🇴 I have a buddy who is starting a bakery by a boot string and wants help wiring his new mixer. He sent me a schematic that the manufacturer sent with the mixer. He has a 240V 3PH service in the building. I know he's going to need a buck/boost transformer to buck the voltage down to 200V for the machine, but I'm clueless beyond that. I've attached the schematic. I'd sincerely appreciate any assistance from you. Thanks! 👍


 So did it work on 240V?


----------



## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

topo242 said:


> So did it work on 240V?


It's been 11 years since this post was made.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

No, they are still working on the motor voltage.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I thought that when they hit the switch, it exploded and they're still trying to put the pieces back together..........


----------



## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

I Got caught by another 20 year old thread,...


----------



## 598170513 (12 mo ago)

hi buddy, I'm far away in China, let me tell you my opinion, after reading your drawing, it's a three-phase motor,There are two motors in the circuit diagram, one of which is more powerful than the kneader motor, and it is a star-delta step-down starter. Only this circuit is difficult to handle if you don’t have professional knowledge. If your voltage capacity is large enough, you don’t need to use this circuit mode at all, just use a self-locking circuit to complete it. This is much easier. good luck


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

598170513 said:


> hi buddy, I'm far away in China, let me tell you my opinion, after reading your drawing, it's a three-phase motor,There are two motors in the circuit diagram, one of which is more powerful than the kneader motor, and it is a star-delta step-down starter. Only this circuit is difficult to handle if you don’t have professional knowledge. If your voltage capacity is large enough, you don’t need to use this circuit mode at all, just use a self-locking circuit to complete it. This is much easier. good luck


they stopped talking about it 11 years ago


----------



## 598170513 (12 mo ago)

thanks my frends


----------



## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

Your Welcome Comrade,...


----------



## 598170513 (12 mo ago)

I am very glad to meet all of you. If you lack a friend who is engaged in electrical work, please recommend me.


----------

