# Sub-panels in bathroom



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mgarc said:


> I understand that they are not allowed per the NEC, what is the reason, moisture???


It depends-- if it is non dwelling then the sub panel may be in the bathroom. Look at 240.24(E) which prohibits the overcurrent protection from being in certain occupancies.

I believe because in dwelling people may be bare footed but not sure.


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## mgarc (Aug 2, 2012)

*sub panel in bathroom*

It is located in a large residential bathroom. i have reseached this question of why it cannot be located in a bathroom. Assuming that it is properly installed, grounded and bonded what is the danger? I have heard that over time the moisture could corrode cause the metal parts to bond and not trip when necessary.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mgarc said:


> It is located in a large residential bathroom. i have reseached this question of why it cannot be located in a bathroom. Assuming that it is properly installed, grounded and bonded what is the danger? I have heard that over time the moisture could corrode cause the metal parts to bond and not trip when necessary.


I really don't think that that is the issue esp. since there are panels in damp basements all over the place. The only reason I can come up with is what I already stated.

Maybe someone else would know.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Maybe it was more an issue of the places they were getting installed that forced a ban on the bathroom. Most bathrooms I've been in would have a hard time meeting set backs. I was in one that had a panel on the wall behind the tub.


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## mgarc (Aug 2, 2012)

*Sub panels in bathrooms*

It would be useful to have a master file with the justification on codes changes or proposals. 

I hate the idea of making someone spend a lot of money to move a panel becasue of some outdated requirement or concern that may be handled through other code requirements, such as cold water bonding or separating a neutral and grounded conductor in a sub-panel.


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## P-Electrician (Aug 2, 2012)

A few years ago we moved the main panel in a church that was originally located in the bathroom. You could use the urinal and flip breakers at the same time lol


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Isn't the trick with bathrooms the actual overcurrent protection, and not the panel? I.e., you specifically can't have breakers and fuses in there regardless of what they're mounted in? 

I wonder if that harkens back to the days of edison-base fuses and the potential for live parts in a routinely wet environment.

-John


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## mgarc (Aug 2, 2012)

*Sub panels in bathrooms*

Yes, it is the overcurrent protection that are prohibited, just can't wrap my head around why. are there any elelctrical engineers that can shed some light on this issue. Maybe it is the old days when the wiring was exposed once the cover was opened or the screw in type fuse was on the surface.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Well let's think about why??

If any of you have kids which I have 3 rug rats. When the little one is in the bathtub, she so happens to manage to knock off the hand held sprayer and complete flood the entire room. 

Also, my little one always manages to lock herself in the bathroom as well as locking the door and closing it shut so no one can enter.


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## scrypps (Apr 3, 2011)

ITS REAL SIMPLE. 

Everything in the bathroom has to be GFI protected except for lights. Why's that? Because if you electrocute yourself in the bathtub you have 15s to live maximum, your chances aren't that much better if the floor is wet and you make a path to ground, so why on earth would you put tons of power in a bathroom? Thats like asking if its a good idea to put a barbecue in a closet.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

scrypps said:


> ITS REAL SIMPLE.
> 
> Everything in the bathroom has to be GFI protected except for lights. Why's that? Because if you electrocute yourself in the bathtub you have 15s to live maximum, your chances aren't that much better if the floor is wet and you make a path to ground, so why on earth would you put tons of power in a bathroom? Thats like asking if its a good idea to put a barbecue in a closet.


You do realize that you could have a GF protected sub panel? Think spa tub.


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## mgarc (Aug 2, 2012)

That makes since. thanks all for your input.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

One can speculate all they want ....

The pattern seems to be that someone sees a couple really outrageous installations, then sends pictures of them along with a proposal to the NEC. Next thing you know, there's a rule against it.

I saw this happen with home-made extension cords, with the use of sheet metal screws, with outdoor receptacle covers, and with ordinary light switches. Some patently wrong thing was done, and the 'solution' was to write another rule for the skunk to ignore.

From a design standpoint, I can think of plenty of problems with mounting a panel in a bathroom. Primarily, these problems are related either to condensation/corrosion or working space. 

The ban came about after a few panels were found to be installed IN THE SHOWER. The code only said switches and receptacles could not be in the shower, and only required GFCI's for receptacles; it didn't say a thing about panels.

Overlooked in the discussion was that every one of these bathrooms was an after-the-fact remodel. Most often, the bathroom was added when the basement was finished, and the panel also happened to be located close to the plumbing. So, that's where the bathroom was built.

I'm thinking of the last Mcmansion I worked on. In that house, the master bath had enough space to roller skate, and two of the 'closets' off of it were as large as my living room. There were enough things in that bathroom - accent lighting, jacuzzi, steam shower, etc. - that having a subpanel for the bathroom alone would have made sense. You'd just have a hard time finding another sensible place in the house to hang it, since the bath and the closets are verboten.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Charlie E a mod at Holts and a CMP member for overcurrent protection has said it is about the humidity in dwelling unit bathrooms.


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

Amish Electrician said:


> The ban came about after a few panels were found to be installed IN THE SHOWER. The code only said switches and receptacles could not be in the shower, and only required GFCI's for receptacles; it didn't say a thing about panels.


 
I went to an old farmhouse a couple of weeks ago where the previos owner built a shower in the basement with cinder block and the panel was in there too. New owner does not use it as a shower.


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## mgarc (Aug 2, 2012)

*sub panel in bathroom*

Thanks you all for your input.


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