# #10 Wire for Voltage Drop



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Not a problem at all as long as the overcurrent protective device is rated for the smallest conductor


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

OK by code. Make sure your boxes are big enough to 
meet the box fill requirements of your local code.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

If the person was adamant about correcting for voltage drop, I would rather talk them into a subpanel(s) closer to the loads, then run #10 everywhere.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cow said:


> If the person was adamant about correcting for voltage drop, I would rather talk them into a subpanel(s) closer to the loads, then run #10 everywhere.



For sure especially with afci circuits which do not like long runs. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'd take their money in a heartbeat.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> For sure especially with afci circuits which do not like long runs. :thumbsup:


I don't wire houses, I didn't know that. Thanks.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Dennis Alwon said:


> For sure especially with afci circuits which do not like long runs. :thumbsup:


Can you quantify that? Any theories as to why they (AFCI's) wouldn't like
long runs?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I don't know why exactly but that has been my experience. Some of the afci testers would not function on any of the outlets longer than 50' from the breaker but that is a different issue. 

All this aside I think it is a bad design to have only one location for a panel in a large home. 

I have run 10/2 homeruns in the past on long runs but that was before afci's


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## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

Its very common in commercial to run homeruns using #10 because there are times where panels may be feeding the core of a building for 3 floors so they are obviously long runs and if a house is large enough I suppose the same principle applies BUT after the first box it is completely idiotic to run #10 so use #12 for 20 amp circuits. This is a case of a home owner not knowing jack and getting bits and pieces of info. If the fool insists on using #10 for everything and won't be reasoned with then use metal 4 11/16 boxes with the proper ring and jam this fool on the price.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Oh Cletis, you always have the most interesting jobs.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Can you quantify that? Any theories as to why they (AFCI's) wouldn't like
> long runs?



Back when GFCIs started to be required for temp receps, using a 100' cord would trip them.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

If I had to guess, and it would just be a guess, I would say that the inductance and capacitance of a long run of wire causes the arc signature waveform to be damped and masked.

As for GFCIs, they don't like long runs because the natural leakage current becomes high enough to reach the trip threshold.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If they're long runs to the panel, I would run #10 to your first device and then #12 after that.


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

"jam this fool on the price". Do your customers know how little respect you have for them?


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## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

Missouri Bound said:


> "jam this fool on the price". Do your customers know how little respect you have for them?


Aren't you cute. Since when do the homeowners tell us how to do our job and what wire to use? You may be the type that lets people who have no idea what they are talking about tell you how to perform your job, I am not. The customer is not always right and imo if they persist in trying how to tell me how to do my job that I am trained to do then they pay for it. Being a pain in the butt makes the price go up and by telling someone what size wire they want when there is no need for it that falls into the pain in the butt category for me so the price goes up. 
I am the professional not the homeowner.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

You will cause more problems than you fix. With the boxes stuffed, you will have bad connections everywhere. If you ran 12/3 you would have a much better circuit.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Missouri Bound said:


> "jam this fool on the price". Do your customers know how little respect you have for them?


It's just another way of saying "maximize profit", something few electricians believe in.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I had a musician who wanted #10 run to his receptacles. Then he supplied some shwanky receptacles for me to install, platinum or something. Who am I to judge? He said he could tell the difference when he played music.

I charged him higher than going rate. Who wouldn't? When you get beat up on the commodity chit you have to make your money somewhere.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

So if I went to a top-notch restaurant and ordered a nice thick steak, I should leave because the waiter tells me I don't need a steak?

If I walked into a Ferrari dealership, is it up to the salesman to determine if I should drive a Volkswagen instead?

If I stopped into a jewelry store and started looking at $5-digit rings, should the clerk tell me to start buying boxes of Cracker Jacks?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

480sparky said:


> So if I went to a top-notch restaurant and ordered a nice thick steak, I should leave because the waiter tells me I don't need a steak?
> 
> If I walked into a Ferrari dealership, is it up to the salesman to determine if I should drive a Volkswagen instead?
> 
> If I stopped into a jewelry store and started looking at $5-digit rings, should the clerk tell me to start buying boxes of Cracker Jacks?


480, I have worked a lot of sides of this industry plus the plumbing, HVAC and instrumentation biz. Without hesitation, I can say that electricians are the worst at making money. An electrician will say, "You don't need that". A plumber will say, "I can do that".

An electrician will take money off the table and give it to someone else in a heartbeat.

I have seen intense competition and a race to the sewer when there was more business than available contractors to do it.

I don't know why we do this to each other.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

That's because electricians aren't the spawns of Satan like plumbers and tin jockeys. Karma is a cruel cold bitch. I would use #10 if they insisted, but I would feel obligated to tell them it was silly too.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

99cents said:


> 480, I have worked a lot of sides of this industry plus the plumbing, HVAC and instrumentation biz. Without hesitation, I can say that electricians are the worst at making money. An electrician will say, "You don't need that". A plumber will say, "I can do that".
> 
> An electrician will take money off the table and give it to someone else in a heartbeat.
> 
> ...


I have no problem being honest and perhaps not getting a job the problem is we don't charge as much as the plumbers or HVAC guys. I know that the plumbers here are getting $165/hr for 2 men and we have trouble charging 115/hour for 2 men. We do , as you say, cut our own throats


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

This V-drop cals #10 for anything over 60'.....

~CS~


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

backstay said:


> You will cause more problems than you fix. With the boxes stuffed, you will have bad connections everywhere. If you ran 12/3 you would have a much better circuit.


Solid #10 is a beast -- so every box would best need a steel 4sq box.

A better solution that nets the same effect: run parallel #12 circuits off of the same breaker -- 

That is, what started out as 9 receptacles on a 20A breaker fed by one #12 becomes two daisy chains of 4 & 5 with double home runs that only meet back at the panel... or just above it.

{ Set a gutter or go with Sq D QO breakers }

This scheme provides even lower resistance than a single daisy chain of #10...

Yet it uses the materials and techniques that the EC is used to.

#10 could still be run to dedicated loads -- such as the reefer -- boxed appropriately.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Or perhaps a ring circuit off phA & phA......:jester:~CS~:jester:


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

bobbarker said:


> Aren't you cute.


Yep, I am.
And smart enough to know that screwing someone just because YOU don't like it is bad business.


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## Sparkchaser1 (May 17, 2015)

Janjak said:


> A person building a fancy house wants us to run #10 NM for all the receptacle circuits and pigtail with #12 to the receptacle then put on a 20 amp breaker for voltage drop. Is this ok by code?
> 
> Janjak


Who's the electrician here, you or the homeowner?:001_huh: He's instructing you on code? How big is this house that voltage drop on a 20 amp circuit is an issue? Box fill issues are sure to come:whistling2:.


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## cad99 (Feb 19, 2012)

99cents said:


> I had a musician who wanted #10 run to his receptacles. Then he supplied some shwanky receptacles for me to install, platinum or something. Who am I to judge? He said he could tell the difference when he played music.
> 
> I charged him higher than going rate. Who wouldn't? When you get beat up on the commodity chit you have to make your money somewhere.



My music would have been cranked all the way to the bank.


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## mikesparky (Aug 1, 2015)

telsa said:


> Solid #10 is a beast -- so every box would best need a steel 4sq box.
> 
> A better solution that nets the same effect: run parallel #12 circuits off of the same breaker --
> 
> ...


you are right however the code (atleast in my area) does not permit #12 to be paralleled. and i would assume the same to be true in most areas. i would run #10 for the home run and connect plugs with 12/2 or have two separate 20A circuits


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