# Forgot to post my service upgrade.



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Overhead resi circa 1960. Existing 3 phase delta (for original AC)











Managed to get the added on circuits cleanly down the wall. AC condenser was piped in thru the attic..











Went to 200A single phase. I started to get some heat stroke/dehydration going on so I pulled off and left my guy to finish up. I told him he could use sealtite on the AC but it looks like hell to me. House in escrow. Seller didn't care. I will get over it.

Damn inspector puts the tag on the outside of the panel. I hate when the do that. I moved it


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Must....resist.....temptation............to.....call.........it............hack...........work..........:jester:

Nice job! :thumbsup: Even though it's kind of :yawn: by now.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Why sealtite coming in the top instead of pipe?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

WTF Happened to the wall?

Was that intentional?

Um looks uh good :blink:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I'll put up a commercial service for you on Monday. This has been in meltdown mode for over a week. Trying to get permits and POCO lined up. They put a bunch off crap on a generator to stay open (restaurant)


It's a 20's era house with a resi panel upgrade from the 90's and loads of stuff hacked in.























I have to move it over and hang it on the boarded up window to get distance from the gas meter. :jester: The cardboard was to keep it shaded. It is tripping the 200A main a few times a day. The whole panel was hot to the touch at 6AM. There is a fan and umbrella over it now lol.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

You are just cranking out those service changes !!!

What temp, when you work on those ? You must be used to it, or built like a Camel !

Plan on working in the early mornings.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

backstay said:


> Why sealtite coming in the top instead of pipe?





> I started to get some heat stroke/dehydration going on so I pulled off and left my guy to finish up. I told him he could use sealtite on the AC but it looks like hell to me


It just much easier to use flex on short pieces. When adding circuits, I have taken to using flex up into the attuc space instead of the old LB/EMT method. Sometimes it looks great.


.



> WTF Happened to the wall?
> 
> Was that intentional?
> 
> Um looks uh good :blink:


Part of it was there from original construction. I beat out the left 1/3 to land the cables where they needed to be. It looks fine when the panel goes up :thumbup:. I don't _think_ the structural integrity was compromised significantly.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I beat out the left 1/3 to land the cables where they needed to be. It looks fine when the panel goes up :thumbup:. I don't _think_ the structural integrity was compromised significantly.



Peter, what is the word that this brings to mind? :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Does it rhyme with hack?

Sometime in life, you need to make adjustments.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Peter, what is the word that this brings to mind? :laughing:


Ummm, let's see. A resourceful contractor making the best use of time and material to get the job done in a professional manner. 





Oh wait, this is 220 we are talking about. In that case, unprofessional hack work. :thumbup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

220/221 said:


> Does it rhyme with hack?
> 
> Sometime in life, you need to make adjustments.


 



*But it all works out in the end.*


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

The original service in the first pic; it looks a lot like a delta breaker in the bottom right. 

I've seen a few of those around here, they were common on a 240∆ service with a lot of single phase loads and only one 3ø load.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

micromind said:


> The original service in the first pic; it looks a lot like a delta breaker in the bottom right.
> 
> I've seen a few of those around here, they were common on a 240∆ service with a lot of single phase loads and only one 3ø load.


 
That's what it is. They are very common around here too.

Not a great pic but the red wire comes straight from the meter into a lug behind the load side of the bottom lug. 

Usually when the AC guys switch to single phase, they disconnect the high leg. In this case they didn't.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

220/221 said:


> That's what it is. They are very common around here too.
> 
> Not a great pic but the red wire comes straight from the meter into a lug behind the load side of the bottom lug.
> 
> Usually when the AC guys switch to single phase, they disconnect the high leg. In this case they didn't.


 BY JOVE!!! It's an F.P E panel, where are the flames???:blink:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

There are tens of thousands of these out here along with it's cousin Zinsco. They put them outside too and they are almost never raintight.


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## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

I sure do wish my home had three phase. Most folks tak it out. I wouldnt. But then again, most folks dont know how they can benefit from it.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Do you caulk along the panel edges to keep rain water out? Also, do you re-mud the area you beat out to get to the wire?


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

*Wtf???*

Really??? 








Nice 180 on the bottom of the panel


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Jmohl said:


> Really???
> View attachment 8296
> 
> 
> Nice 180 on the bottom of the panel



Were allowed 360, right?


And yeah Buzz, I caulk in the panels when necessary but, although it would be a better job, I dont mud the holes behind them.

Tackdriver, what are the benefits of having a 3 phase service on your residence? Ser ratings are higher on single phase units and supply/demand makes the electrical and hvac more affordable. I advise everykone to yank it.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> what are the benefits of having a 3 phase service on your residence?


I'm thinking running 3 phase shop equipment.

Sent from my brick phone


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Tackdriver said:


> I sure do wish my home had three phase. Most folks tak it out. I wouldnt. But then again, most folks dont know how they can benefit from it.


OK, I am electrician, please explain how a three phase service at my home would be a benefit.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I have made U-Turns when I have had to, but there is this.




> *225.22 Raceways on Exterior Surfaces of Buildings or
> Other Structures. *Raceways on exteriors of buildings or
> other structures shall be arranged to drain and shall be
> suitable for use in wet locations.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I have made U-Turns when I have had to, but there is this.


 Nice neat job, but I do not like the 1/2 inch copper water line so close to the panel!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Nice neat job, but I do not like the 1/2 inch copper water line so close to the panel!


Actually that is also an NEC violation. Not a big deal just pointing it out. 



> 110.26(A)(3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be
> clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to the
> height required by 110.26(E). Within the height requirements
> of this section, other equipment that is associated
> ...


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I like the 180. I just use a back to back 90's in cases like that. 
Are people advising to come straight out of the panel to an L type fitting and then 90'ing up the wall? Or come out of the side of the panel? In this case the right side of the panel, but that may not have been an option.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

In Arizona, I think any water in that EMT will just boil away. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> In Arizona, I think any water in that EMT will just boil away. :laughing:


I was wondering if any would even get in there. 

You know here it would be full to the panel connector ....... or the bottom of the U-Turn would be rotted through.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> or the bottom of the U-Turn would be rotted through.


Yeah that's gonna take like a billion years here :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Yeah that's gonna take like a billion years here :laughing:


Typical scenario here, pipe gets some water in a low spot, winter freeze comes, EMT splits making a drain but exposing raw steel to the water and the rust / rot comes next.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I was wondering if any would even get in there.
> 
> You know here it would be full to the panel connector ....... or the bottom of the U-Turn would be rotted through.


Yeah. EMT outdoors here?  :no:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Typical scenario here, pipe gets some water in a low spot, winter freeze comes, EMT splits making a drain but exposing raw steel to the water and the rust / rot comes next.


Yeah, we see that up north. A conduit body (w/ weep hole ) and a 90 for up there.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I have made U-Turns when I have had to, but there is this.


it will drain just fine, after it goes through the P trap.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Actually that is also an NEC violation. Not a big deal just pointing it out.


 
Im not getting that from the quoted section. I read, it can be there if not more than 6" out from the wall.

And I think the 90/90 looks good. Better that trying to get it around the mast, into the top. I think the plumbing looks good too  It was a last minute, DOH! True value was across the street and everything worked out fine.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah the water is a violation, the 6 inch thing only applies to other electrical stuff, that prevents someone from plopping something like a big ass xformer in front of a panel that we then have to reach over.


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## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

Three phase makes stationary power tools run so much better. Wish I had it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Tackdriver said:


> Three phase makes stationary power tools run so much better.


Please explain?

The only real advantage is that the same HP is smaller in 3 phase, beyond that an HP is an HP is it not?


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## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

HP is the same, yes, but the TYPES of motors are different. single phase uses some scheme of start-run windings. Three phase motors do not. Three phase motors start loads eaiser, there is less wind-up in the machine, there seems to be less bog when the cutter hits the wood or metal or whatever. 

I told my friend how to convert a lathe to run on three phase. Got rid of the single phase motor and the variable displacement pulley thing. The shop (house) didnt have single phase installed either, so I speced a oversize Omron freq drive and a Baldor three phase motor on the lathe. My friend was amazed at how much better it was. Same HP, but smoother running, fewer chatter marks from the cutter, nearly instantanious spool up, infineately variable speed.


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## Oklahoma sparky (Jul 12, 2011)

Why no chase nipple where your nm comes into the back of the panel?


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## john120/240 (May 28, 2010)

Oklahoma sparky said:


> Why no chase nipple where your nm comes into the back of the panel?


Because this is Pheonix & thats how it is done with a plastic bushing
in their neck of the woods.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Oklahoma sparky said:


> Why no chase nipple where your nm comes into the back of the panel?


Snap in bushings are less bulky, less expensive and do the same job.


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## Oklahoma sparky (Jul 12, 2011)

220/221 said:


> Snap in bushings are less bulky, less expensive and do the same job.


That makes sense I wish we could do that here


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Oklahoma sparky said:


> That makes sense I wish we could do that here


We could do that here, but it would fail inspection and you would be called a hack. :laughing:

In all honestly, I can see why they do it that way out there, just like we mount our SE cable weatherheads at an angle. :thumbup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Peter D said:


> We could do that here, but it would fail inspection and you would be called a hack. :laughing:
> 
> In all honestly, I can see why they do it that way out there, just like we mount our SE cable weatherheads at an angle. :thumbup:


what angle isthat?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> what angle isthat?



Anywhere from horizontal to vertical. It all depends on the style of the house and where the service is located. But generally speaking a great deal of SE cable is mounted at an angle.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I always mount my weatherheads appx 180 degrees away from the direction of the servive drop. The wires roll out and around much cleaner.

A lot of the time the POCO guys loosen it and twist it around because it _looks wrong_ to them.:jester: I guess they prefer the S bends. I think the electrons prefer the simple loop.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Tackdriver said:


> HP is the same, yes, but the TYPES of motors are different. single phase uses some scheme of start-run windings. Three phase motors do not. Three phase motors start loads eaiser, there is less wind-up in the machine, there seems to be less bog when the cutter hits the wood or metal or whatever.
> 
> I told my friend how to convert a lathe to run on three phase. Got rid of the single phase motor and the variable displacement pulley thing. The shop (house) didnt have single phase installed either, so I speced a oversize Omron freq drive and a Baldor three phase motor on the lathe. My friend was amazed at how much better it was. Same HP, but smoother running, fewer chatter marks from the cutter, nearly instantanious spool up, infineately variable speed.


 
That's what the drive managed, not having three different legs.


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