# Rebar becomes live LA



## MoscaFibra (Apr 15, 2021)

1 dead, 2 injured after rebar becomes energized and sparks fire at under-construction high-rise in West L.A.


Three workers were injured, one fatally, after rebar became electrically energized and ignited a high-rise structure being built in West Los Angeles Thursday afternoon, officials said. Crews respon…




www.google.com





I’m curious as to what happened. This seems a bit crazy, how did the rebar become live? I’m sure some of the construction guys can give more of a glimpse


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Without getting what really happened there is no way of really knowing.
Were the workers moving rebar and shoved one end into something energized?
With as many floors that appear to have very been erected the rebar in the concrete should have been already grounded and would not become energized.

Worked quite a few high rise buildings back in the late 70's, early 80's.
As each floor, whether steel beams or poured concrete construction, was being constructed, we verified we had continuity to ground as the building went up.

My guess is they shoved a piece of rebar into something energized.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

When all else fails blame electricity. I used to have a detailed report of a hay barn burning in Iowa. The paper was convinced that it was an electrical fire. I knew for a fact that there was no electricity in the hay barn


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

We had a fire in a water pumping station that was under construction years ago. 800 amp service pulled in and feeders pulled in laying on the floor throughout the building. Building 500' back in the woods. New padmount transformer outside. Cause was determined to be electrical until I explained that our 500' utility primary cable wasn't pulled in yet. No power any where around. My 4" threader head is still charred black from being in the building but still works fine. Oh, in that case the cigarette butts and beer bottles found on site must have been kids partying there. We had 2 three in rigid conduits coming out of the floor with about 12' offsets to bring them away from the wall for a piece of equipment to mount on the wall. The "fire inspectors" said that the fire was so hot that the 3" conduits got deformed. I had to explain that I bent those conduits that way. The building was originally a wood frame building supplied by the developer to match the 2000 homes that they would eventually build there. Ended up tearing the structure down and building a block structure on the same footprint and installing vinyl siding on the outside to match the future homes.


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## MoscaFibra (Apr 15, 2021)

SWDweller said:


> When all else fails blame electricity. I used to have a detailed report of a hay barn burning in Iowa. The paper was convinced that it was an electrical fire. I knew for a fact that there was no electricity in the hay barn


It was those induced currents from the methane off gassing.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I wonder what they're going to blame it on when all circuits are AFCI?

Most likely the service or the panel but certainly not the smart meter or the required disconnect outside the building..........


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Another news station said the rebar had touched "high voltage" and it took 20 minutes to get the building shut down. Does not sound like any high voltage circuits I know of.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

High voltage to the news is anything >12VDC.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

SWDweller said:


> When all else fails blame electricity. I used to have a detailed report of a hay barn burning in Iowa. The paper was convinced that it was an electrical fire. I knew for a fact that there was no electricity in the hay barn


Never heard of hay static?



SteveBayshore said:


> We had a fire in a water pumping station that was under construction years ago. 800 amp service pulled in and feeders pulled in laying on the floor throughout the building. Building 500' back in the woods. New padmount transformer outside. Cause was determined to be electrical until I explained that our 500' utility primary cable wasn't pulled in yet. No power any where around. My 4" threader head is still charred black from being in the building but still works fine. Oh, in that case the cigarette butts and beer bottles found on site must have been kids partying there. We had 2 three in rigid conduits coming out of the floor with about 12' offsets to bring them away from the wall for a piece of equipment to mount on the wall. The "fire inspectors" said that the fire was so hot that the 3" conduits got deformed. I had to explain that I bent those conduits that way. The building was originally a wood frame building supplied by the developer to match the 2000 homes that they would eventually build there. Ended up tearing the structure down and building a block structure on the same footprint and installing vinyl siding on the outside to match the future homes.





micromind said:


> I wonder what they're going to blame it on when all circuits are AFCI?
> 
> Most likely the service or the panel but certainly not the smart meter or the required disconnect outside the building..........


 You Micromind. They're going to blame you. The electrician.
The fire commissioners (volunteers, Long Island) have a solve rate of 100% when it comes to the cause of any and every fire. NYC has forensic arson investigators who at best solve 60% of the cases they get. It is almost always an electrical fire.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

LGLS said:


> You Micromind. They're going to blame you. The electrician.
> The fire commissioners (volunteers, Long Island) have a solve rate of 100% when it comes to the cause of any and every fire. NYC has forensic arson investigators who at best solve 60% of the cases they get. It is almost always an electrical fire.


Unfortunately, I think you're right.

If they can't come up with a provable cause, they'll blame the person who can't fight back.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

SWDweller said:


> When all else fails blame electricity. I used to have a detailed report of a hay barn burning in Iowa. The paper was convinced that it was an electrical fire. I knew for a fact that there was no electricity in the hay barn


They put up wet hay. We did the same thing and even salted each tier but during supper the barn blew up.


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## MrThrills (Jan 7, 2019)

MoscaFibra said:


> 1 dead, 2 injured after rebar becomes energized and sparks fire at under-construction high-rise in West L.A.
> 
> 
> Three workers were injured, one fatally, after rebar became electrically energized and ignited a high-rise structure being built in West Los Angeles Thursday afternoon, officials said. Crews respon…
> ...


One obvious scenario is building steel somehow touched a distribution line. Of course, for it to stay hot for 30 straight minutes is a miracle, and the article says an exact cause is unknown.

Another possibility is someone nicked a feeder while core drilling or cutting concrete. In slab, conduit is tied to rebar all the time. And when you're operating a core bore or a saw, conduit feels like rebar ("give it more water and pressure") so if you get both at the same time, you've got a solid connection.

I haven't yet been on a site where a feeder was cored into, but older guys tell me it's quite loud.

Regardless, we're never gonna know the full story because whichever set of crews messed up are gonna try to cover their asses as best as possible.

I also wonder if building steel wasn't bonded to ground. Most new transformers and services I've seen installed, they want you to bond it to building steel, rebar, a ground rod, and also even a water pipe. That fault SHOULD have found a path solid enough to trip a breaker somewhere, either at the premises or at a substation.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Wet hay is a terrible thing, We had a rainy summer one year and our hay crop got pretty long because of the rains. When I finally cut it it laid in the field for almost a week because of the weather. Then I got ready to rake it for bailing and dad said you rake no more than we can do in an hour. More misting of rain. Finally got some bailed and when to stack them in the barn and I could dad had me stack one bail width with a space and so on. Needless to say it was a pain in the ass to stack. There was no way we were going to have enough inside for the season. Weather finally turned and we stacked hay outside and tarped it. Our barn did not burn but several in the area did. 
Glad that did not happen but once while I was on the farm.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I also wonder if building steel wasn't bonded to ground. Most new transformers and services I've seen installed, they want you to bond it to building steel, rebar, a ground rod, and also even a water pipe. That fault SHOULD have found a path solid enough to trip a breaker somewhere, either at the premises or at a substation.
[/QUOTE]

I have worked in LA, the utility does not allow its feeders to be inside floors. Everything I ever did for DWP was in a dedicated easement. DWP is not even close to being the best utility out there but they did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

I am betting it was not High voltage or even Medium voltage, but a feeder on the job someone got into. That is why it did not trip. Being under construction the coordination study has not been done and who among us has not tweaked the breaker settings under construction? I make the breakers super sensitive during construction just because I would rather deal with a thousand tripped breakers than sit in a court room again because of a death. It is really not a lot of fun.


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