# Need advise please.



## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Not wishing to put a spanner in the works but

On the link it states '4weeks practical work' No way near enough in my opinion, if this is the only practical you are doing

C&G 2392 is the dumbed down version of 2391. At last weeks NIC meeting it was described as 'plug in a tester, record answer and walk away'

Other sites have a different definition of the exams...most state that 2392 is multiple-guess whereas 2391 is written

If you are goin to work for yourself it may be enough, but. If the sh!t hits the fan and you have to stand up in a Court to defend youself would you be classd as competent

How much is the total course?
Try to find some people who have done it, how they feel and if it has got them a job. If the course is reputable I would have thought that they would be only too pleased to supply you with a list of successful .
participants

IMHO the only way is an Apprenticeship

Hope this helps a little:thumbup:


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## KTM (Feb 20, 2008)

Trimix-leccy said:


> Not wishing to put a spanner in the works but
> 
> On the link it states '4weeks practical work' No way near enough in my opinion, if this is the only practical you are doing
> 
> ...


Hi Trimix-leccy, thanks for the info after speaking to some sparkys on http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/general-electrical-discussion/564-please-advise-me.html#post2555 appears that these qualifications only qualify me to do PAT testing which is not what I'm after, I can only thankyou for your advise!, I've come to the conclusion that this course is a monkey course & I need to find a way to gain my C&G 2330, 2392 & 2383 to become an employable fully qualified sparky!, man these people who sell these course's will tell you anything to sell them,  thanks for the reply mate. :thumbsup:


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

A penny saved and all that  

How much did they want to slap you for?? It doesn't look cheap


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

Seems like you almost got your pants pulled down there KTM ! i understood that the 2392 was a "no brainer" plug and test,write then scarper.The main guts behind the 2391 was it stated that "The inspector has SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE" something you can't get with a short course.

As Trimmy points out four weeks practical is a very big joke,no way can you even get close to having sufficent knowledge as for the part p then thats a joke in itself !

I find the last bit quite funny CSCS card ( joint industry board ) when i started out JIB electricians where the dogs nads,you started out as an apprentice with some grumpy old git who would beast you around all day and tell you at least 37 times a day how useless you really was.when i first started the old [email protected] i got put with gave me a lump of wood with a hole in it and told me he wanted 40 bits of black enamel conduit making into equal sets and if they were'nt right i'd get a thick ear for wasting it !

No offense KTM but the JIB will take anyone with a pulse now ( At times i think they will consider no pulse candidates but they have to have an IQ of at least 6 :laughing: or the same inteligence as two jags prescott)

Check out what else is on offer bud

Good luck

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

*Maybe I am being a tad cynical*

Called at the wholesalers today and picked up a copy of Professional Electrician.

I was entertained by reading about the 'youngest NAPIT member' a youth of 18 years of age.

I feel I will have to sign off at this stage due to iminent detonation of my usually laid back persona 

Read the article, I eagerly await your feedback:whistling2:


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

hmm i picked up a copy of prof lecky on monday when i went in to Edmundsons for the prescription cup of coffee ( i feel as though i will have to change wholesalers as the blokes at edmundsons don't " Bite" anymore when i tell them i get lots more discount at ERF or Wades ! )

Anyway,where was i ? ahhh yes the mag,i think i scanned through it quickly and saw that page,i thought he looked about twelve !

But i will definately read it tomorrow :001_huh: 

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Edms round here cannot be bothered ! They ran a suggestion scheme. I suggested that they install a mirror behind the counter. When the Manager asked me 'why the mirror?' my reply was, 'So that when the customers see their own reflection they will know that they still exist'. Bunch of arrogant to55ers. Obviously only my opinion and not those of the management:whistling2:


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## KTM (Feb 20, 2008)

chrisb271 said:


> Seems like you almost got your pants pulled down there KTM ! i understood that the 2392 was a "no brainer" plug and test,write then scarper.The main guts behind the 2391 was it stated that "The inspector has SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE" something you can't get with a short course.
> 
> As Trimmy points out four weeks practical is a very big joke,no way can you even get close to having sufficent knowledge as for the part p then thats a joke in itself !
> 
> ...


3 and a half grand for that course  Your right I nearly did get me pants pulled down I never invest that type of money without looking into it 100%, it sickens me that some suckers will pay that for a monkey ticket!, anyway thanks for the help lads. :thumbsup:


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

3 and a half grand! JAYZUS...unbelievable 

Concensus of opinion is, get taken on by a 'good firm' and a proper apprenticeship.

Read the article on the 18 year old Napit....I'm scared. There are pages on the subject. The trouble is that nowadays the apprenticeship is dumbed down and the majority of second year apprentices I come across are void of thinking. They can only rip out and replace or only install new on new sites. Pyro work took 1 day, conduit half a day, swa 1 hour according to my mates son. Wanted to know if I would take him on as he 'had done it all at college'. He sees working for me [and all the electrical trade] as easy money. Likes the idea as we sometimes work abroad,we install Data and Fibre optics, cable jointing, machine tool control as well as all the standard UK sparky stuff. We work for some 'top notch' clients who put us up in 4* ans 5* hotels [not all the time though]. It has taken me a loooooooooooooooong time to get to this point and he thinks it is a doddle:no: ....rant finishes:laughing:


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

FFS ! i can't believe they wanted pull yer pants down to a tune of 3 and half grand !!!!!! They very nearly saw you coming bud,big time !
Never ceases to amaze me the amount of rip off merchants play on ppls hopes and dreams B*ST*RDS !

Like trim says Check out the local stuff,i'll second his opinion that the only real way to become an electrician with any worth is by apprenticeship,its tried and tested bud,the real deal.

Good luck m8

Chris


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

Trim

I read that article in the prof lecky today and my comment on the issue would be 

What a load of  its treating the old school like a bunch of  to55ers  its just another  whitewash,really does grip my sh*t

I thought it was some sort of tribute to jeremy beadle at first,like a fairwell wind up ! I always thought kids today left school at 16 not 14 ? 
He says " He learnt a lot in those two years " well woop de f***ing doo ! Its complete pants it really is.
Really if we look at the big picture its a whole lot easier for the government censored: ing government ) to talk pple out of doing these long apprenticeships in favour of the three day electrician course,it saves them the hassle of sorting this stuff out and makes them look good as the amount of trades are on the up.

As you and i know the only true way is time served and its not just the wiring of a circuit is it, its everything that goes with it,the plumbing,the carpentry,the plastering,the stone mason and above all its the engineering skills we pick up from the old fart that teaches us,its passed on from one electrician to the next.

Something you cant pick up in two years !

the trade is going completely barking mad !!!

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

It resurrects your faith in Part P and NAPIT [ where the feck did they suddenly appear from  ] woke up one morning and there they were. NAPIT this and NAPIT that. We are the one and only etc etc etc. Trying to find a local NAPIT seminar to 'visit'....purely for research purposes:whistling2: .

Brought back memories when you mentioned the 'block of wood with a hole in it'. I once spent a complete day hand threading [manual stocks and dies] 2 lengths of 3/4 BE to make nipples 

What about Rawl Drills, Star drills, hand augers. Invention of the hammer drill. wooden back boxes, Screwits [midgets and normals] blakeley tape, ivory MK accessories, copperclad, AlCuMICC [still got some ends], wedge pyro pots [still got some], sweating lugs, water filled storage heaters, Billy Cans, 
I think I will start a nostalgia thread:laughing:


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

ha ha the block of wood is how it all started for me,i left school on the friday and the old man signed me up with south west electricity board on the monday,indentured.

The old fart i was with scared the crap out of me at the time,he said "Get your hands out your pockets as you belong to me now,when i say jump you don't ask you just keep jumping,i'm your mum your dad and your worst enemy " its a wonder i ever stayed :laughing: 

The year i qualified he retired,i shook his hand and thanked him for all he taught me,he was a tyrant at times but all said and done i did respect the man.

I've always wondered where NAPIT came from,it sort of crawled out of the woodwork overnight,it always used to be ECA and NICEIC now its the new boy in the lead.
guess us lepers that are not part of NAPIT will soon have to wear a sign saying " unclean" on it.

It really is a crazy old world !

Chris


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

Bl**dy hell trim,i've spent many blistering hour with a rawl plug tool and brace and bit putting B/E conduit on concrete ceilings,lovely :laughing: 
had many a bo**ocking for not keep the buckle clips straight :laughing: 
And blamed a couple of times for trying to kill the old fart with a hilti gun.

The good old days,it was hard going but what a laugh.

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Tell that to the kids nowadays:laughing: 
"Sorry can't do the job we need another Battery SDS drill"..."If I had priced for a new drill in the job becaue it warrented it then you would have got one now go swiftly to your place of work lest I create a new human waste product elimination orifice for you" 

wooden rawlplugs
black plastic plugs before they turned red
Alix plugs
that asbetos cement coated rag that you used to wet and wrap around the screw [recently returned]
Insulating our tools with the sheath of Pyro
Being frightened of the 'meter man'
floor board saw
wooden handled padsaw
1 1/2" 6sfor the switch plates onto the wooden back box
7s 6d per hour
10 to a van


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

hehe

we used to have an old commer van,it was cream crackered but it was home.we got upgraded to an austin J4,now that was living the life of luxury WoW you could drive with the doors fully slid back,was a lot better for a lot of things,you were able to bung your *** ends and crisp packets out a lot easier.

Most electricians thought all electricity board staff were of satans loins,if ppl were discussing electrical work in the local they used to change the conversation when we went in,strange :no: 

Did you ever use that stuff made by "rawlplug" in a box,you mixed it with water and stuffed it in the hole,then when it was dry you could screw straight into it.
Turned out to be made mainly from asbestos  

i've still got my floorboard saw,it always left two huge dents in the adjoining board if you wasn't carefull:whistling2: 


whatever happened to Dencil oil and calenoid,footprint grips and jammey dodgers ha ha.

think we had the best era trimy,definately :thumbup: 

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

We had an old Bedford with the column change and sliding doors. My 'boss' [bloke who I was apprenticed to, used to keep his barn door tool box on the little recess on the step. Went round a corner, door slid open all tools allover the road [including screws etc]

That Rawlplug stuff you mention is the one I mean ; I thought it was a cloth :no: but now that you mention it :thumbsup: was it called rawlfill or rawlgap?

I am only 51 and 11/12 ths. Used to go on site [pre HSE COSHH etc] from about aged 12 upwards so I have seen / used most stuff. O levels, A levels, ONC, Salford University [degreeless:whistling2: ] apprenticeship etc etc. So I am mystcally drawn to the 4 week curses [sic] . How much of my life have I wasted in learning:wallbash:


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

hehe 

I honestly cant remember the name of that stuff for sure,i can remember the orange box and you always got a shiney steel implement with a point on to ram the mix in the hole.

On the board we always had a cloth type insulting tape,not the pvc stuff of today,you nearly needed a sharp hacksaw to cut it :laughing: 

I'm 52 in december trimy so you got the edge on me slightly :laughing: 
My old dad was an electrician and i can remember right back to going on site with him,making off the old lead sheathed into those little boxs with the clamps in then going over to rubber.
Even drawing in VIR's :laughing: 

Think my old dad would and probably is turning in his grave at the thought of (so called )electricians after four weeks.

I get quite annoyed when i think about all the time i've spent at colledge and uni all that studying and trying to make things stay in my head,was it a waste of time ? it just seems to all be turning to sh!t.
Done electrical work for nearly forty odd years to be told that i'm not qualified to wire kitchens,bathrooms and outdoors unless i have a test and inspection by some jumped up little 12 years old,wet behind the ears who gets his info out of a book.

Ok rant over before i blow a fuse :laughing: 

SDS drills are a brilliant invention BUT are wasted on the youth of today  

Chris


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

Bl**dy hell trimy ! 

Your a bad influence on me,we've hyjacked KTM's thread and strolled down memory lane again.

They'll be kicking our ar5e5 and throwing us off here :laughing: 

Chris


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## aijaz (Mar 24, 2008)

*misplaced nostalgia*

I have read your nostalgic input, very interesting, at times it feels as if you are all ready to jump into your coffins. Printers in fleet street also use to think sun shines out of their  . World has changed. Let us face it, you people were on a cushy number and had a closed shop. Now with new technologies as in other industries brawn is out brain is in. For a defiend scope, 4 weeks is long enough. I would never call myself an electrician let alone qualified electrician, domestic installer is what I am and happy that when I start a job I can complete it without relying on any one else.

You people remind me of Albert "during the war..


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

WoW

" Domestic Installer "

You should be on the DIY site chap,reading stuff you know nothing about will get you no where.

As for domestic installations , trained monkeys get bored so easily.

And if it takes brain to do your job then most of the " APPROVED ELECTRICIANS AND TECHNICIANS " on here could just sit and pull your string


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

This could get interesting...I shall sit back and watch. Maybe I will learn something as at present I am like Manuel _'I know naaarthing'  _


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Reading your guys posts is fun and like learning a new language at the same time.


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## aijaz (Mar 24, 2008)

You say "reading stuff you know nothing about will get you no where"

I knew nothing about electrics, I read some and am Domestic Installer now.

I knew nothing about Gas, I read some and am now Corgi reg gas installer.

I am looking for something new. Oh yes how to mix powder to make rawl plugs, I guess it will keep me busy for a year or two.


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

posting on these forums is like pruning roses really

you always get ONE PRICK !


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## craigfitzhugh (Oct 1, 2007)

I am currently on one of your "monkey courses". 
I would have prefered doing an Apprenticeship or adult training only to find out I was too old. 
I also looked at being an electricians mate and going to college to learn the trade that way, only to be told I needed knowlege of the 16th edition and experiance. 
The way I see it the "monkey course" is the only available route for the older learner. 
I am very aware my skills will be very limited on completion of the course, but hopefully it will get my foot in the door. then my training will really begin


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

Theres a bloke in the village who is doing college one day a week,he is so keen he is financing himself through the course, he's 52 years old so age has naff all to do with getting qualified.

Talking in the wholesalers to chaps who do domestic stuff most say pricing is keen ?
Can't see the point myself of ripping each others throats out just for a couple of poxy house jobs that has more paper work attached than you really want ?

If thats the route you " domestic installers " want to go then your welcome to it.

*As you are aware when you read the small print and signed up the forum was set up for ELECTRICIANS and ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS to discuss topics of electrical work and practices*


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