# Question about Union



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> Alright well I'm as new as they get. I did a co-op stage in highschool and worked for this Commercial Union company as a labor for 8 months. Because it was just a small company i was also doing some minor electrical work. Pulling wires, Wiring plugs and Lights.
> 
> Anyways, My boss hooked me up with the Union Test before i left to go to college (took a one year program to learn as much as i could) I'm finished in about 3 weeks but im not sure if my boss can get me back in as an apprentice since they're union.
> 
> ...



4. yes they will.

Welcome to the forum..:thumbup:


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## They-Call-Me-Sparky (Apr 14, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> 4. yes they will.
> 
> Welcome to the forum..:thumbup:


Thanks  I stumbles across this site an hour ago and thought it might be helpfull. People seemed friendly too.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> 1. Do i really have to wait for the union to call me up and assign me a company?





They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> 2.Can i go work for a non-union company until i get my first company? since im technically just in the "Pool" of guys waiting for a job.


Not Recommended


They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> 3.If i do get into union and end up getting let go because there isn't any work left, how long does it take to find another company? and do i get some kind of revenue while im not working?


 Depends on the local I think, I know L.U. 1739 you don't.


They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> Your guess is as good as mine, I was on the books for over a year as an apprentice.
> 4. Can companys cherry pick people if they have connections?


Yes


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## Fractured (Feb 15, 2011)

Working non-union while you are on the books only weakens the IBEW imho.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Fractured said:


> Working non-union while you are on the books only weakens the IBEW imho.


 
But it beats starving. The union can't put a man to work, yet to strengthen it's position it expects the man to not make a living.

The union's have to get a grip on reality.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> But it beats starving. The union can't put a man to work, yet to strengthen it's position it expects the man to not make a living.
> 
> The union's have to get a grip on reality.


The union does not live in reality. They are behind the times.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Fractured said:


> Working non-union while you are on the books only weakens the IBEW imho.


I am a union man but it doesn't make sense to let your family go hungry, or your standard of living decline just to prove that you are a man who wants all workers to enjoy their rights. The best thing that you can do is to be a good worker...union, or non.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I am a union man but it doesn't make sense to let your family go hungry, or your standard of living decline just to prove that you are a man who wants all workers to enjoy their rights. The best thing that you can do is to be a good worker...union, or non.


I would try working in another field, but that seldom will pay as much. I think the best thing is the local needs to realize the situation and ignore their men working to support their families.


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## unionwirewoman (Sep 7, 2008)

They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> Alright well I'm as new as they get. I did a co-op stage in highschool and worked for this Commercial Union company as a labor for 8 months. Because it was just a small company i was also doing some minor electrical work. Pulling wires, Wiring plugs and Lights.
> 
> Anyways, My boss hooked me up with the Union Test before i left to go to college (took a one year program to learn as much as i could) I'm finished in about 3 weeks but im not sure if my boss can get me back in as an apprentice since they're union.
> 
> ...


 
#1- you do have to wait until a contractor has picked you up...could be 2 days , could be 2 yrs depending on how many jobs are in your area .

#2- I am union , and we have had a few apprentices who were working for a non-union contractor while on the list . I don't see how this would hurt you...it would just give you more experience and credits if you do become union .

#3- If you are laid off , then it is up to your apprentice director or BA to find you your next job . Again , depending on jobs...and politics , it could be any given time range .

#4- The question should be "DO the companies cherry pick" . Yes they do , although it is against contract and is illegal . 

Good luck with whatever you choose , just know that whatever path you follow will be filled with hard work , and might pose obstacles that will challenge your morality , and self worth .


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

unionwirewoman said:


> #4- The question should be "DO the companies cherry pick" . Yes they do , although it is against contract and is illegal .
> .


It is illegal? As in against a local law, not just the union bylaws?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> But it beats starving. The union can't put a man to work, yet to strengthen it's position it expects the man to not make a living.


Yea, that's a problem.


> The union's have to get a grip on reality.


Which reality? The one where there are more electricians than there are need for electricians?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Yea, that's a problem.
> 
> Which reality? The one where there are more electricians than there are need for electricians?



Out of touch with reality: receiving a raise in a recession.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> But it beats starving. The union can't put a man to work, yet to strengthen it's position it expects the man to not make a living.
> 
> The union's have to get a grip on reality.


 Why does it have to be electrical work ? support your family flipping burgers.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> It is illegal? As in against a local law, not just the union bylaws?


 violates contract so creates a tort.


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## thenazz (Feb 17, 2011)

what is the pay scale for the union


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

1 million dollars an hour but you will only work for one hour in your entire life.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

If you want to find out scale you need to find out what local you will be in first. It varies widely around the country.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> violates contract so creates a tort.


 
So you have a chance to pick up a guy you know is a good worker, you would have hired him at any time in the past if you had a chance. You are finally getting your company going again after some minor past issues. But your back, you need men and by need men I mean the best you know of. The next 4 guys on the bench are total slackers, you know this from first hand experience, number 5 is a guy you have wanted since day one.

What would you do? Create tort or suck it up and face another liquidation sale?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

The Union is only good in areas where you have to be Union to work, other than that they are just parasites for the most part. They have their hands in your pockets and you get little in return.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Deleted...posted to wrong thread....:whistling2:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Mr Rewire said:


> Why does it have to be electrical work ? support your family flipping burgers.


 

If you can make a living flipping burgers, why would you go to all the trouble to become an electrician? You can flip burgers and at the end of the month not even have enough to pay your cobra premium if you have a family.


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## nomad (Jul 27, 2010)

They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> So i have a few questions
> 
> 1. Do i really have to wait for the union to call me up and assign me a company?
> 
> ...


1. Yes....make sure you read word for word the paperwork you sign when you start your apprenticeship....the rules of what you can and cannot do. 

2. No....unless you have the blessing of the committee. Don't know if app. can work off SALT letters. 

3. Varies....depending on how many apprentices are before you waiting to work. Unemployment Insurance or you can find another job other than electrical.

4. Companies cherry pick quite often and yes, there are plenty of men out there that give them every reason too. Just because the Training Director sends you out on a job doesn't mean the company does not have the right to spin you. Go in with a good attitude, the right tools, and the JW's are there to teach you OJT.

I understand each local JATC runs their programs a little different from each other, but when I went through the apprenticeship, this would have been the answers to these questions. Again, ask your Training Director all these questions and make sure you understand what you are signing.


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## gardiner (Sep 25, 2007)

Unless things have changed a lot over the past few years in Eastern Ontario, I would suggest you either wait until the Union put you to work, or resign yourself to doing your apprenticeship non union. Once you cross over to non union the Union will most likely not want to touch you agian until you get your JW ticket.


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## cbr (Jun 14, 2011)

They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> So i have a few questions
> 
> 1. Do i really have to wait for the union to call me up and assign me a company?
> 
> ...



I worked Ibew in CA for 4 years and currently 2 in TX

1. As an apprentice you usually go to the school and they put you on a list. The contractor will put out calls for what period apprentice they want. When your name comes you take the call no choice.

As a JW you sign the books then when there are calls you go to hall and sign day sheet. Names are put in order of when you signed the books. You can either take a call or roll it. If the calls get to you but you either didn't show up or refused the call you get a ding, 3 dings and you are moved to back of the books.

2.That depends on where you are some locals don't care some do, its not like it use to be. Be careful you don't want to get a reputation before you are even in. That being said most do when times are hard your family comes first I just wouldn't be hanging out at the hall talking about it

3.Low level apprentices stay working usually, they are cheap labor how long you wait all depends on where you are. Im in Texas and was laid off early Jan signed book 1 at something like 350 now im down to 64. Some areas are slow some aren't its construction dont expect steady work. Take the OT when its offered.

You can file for unemployment seeing as your union you dont need to actively search for jobs as others who are nonunion. You may also "salt" salting agreement work in a nonunion shop on behalf of the union with their permission. 

4.Yes and no they can do call by name for foreman position but they also do a call by name that is kinda shady were they keep spinning guys until they get who they want. This all depends on how strong the local is.


Here is my take the Unions have given a lot up in the past 10 years. You can see a huge difference between the old timers and the younger generation. Some locals are a little shady some are very strong all depends on the local itself. There has been a huge change with the IJ program some say it is for the better some say it isnt.The members make the local what ever they want if there are good members the local will be strong it also goes the other way.

I walked out of the JATC in my 4th year for a job offer in the oil industry I wish I would have finished. Once you get that ticket you can travel anywhere you want.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

What I see posted on this thread has many twisted and out dated facts. With as little as a signature on a"SALT" card all have the ability to work for whom ever they can to support their family and or self. With in coming apprentice you are not expected to quit or deviate from being employed until that said local finds a contractor to hire you.If this thread is in reference to Canada, it may be a different case.Brian if you are a union contractor you should know this along with the fact a contractor has the right to spin who ever they please for no reason depending on certain contracts.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Brother Noah said:


> What I see posted on this thread has many twisted and out dated facts. With as little as a signature on a"SALT" card all have the ability to work for whom ever they can to support their family and or self. With in coming apprentice you are not expected to quit or deviate from being employed until that said local finds a contractor to hire you.If this thread is in reference to Canada, it may be a different case.Brian if you are a union contractor you should know this along with the fact a contractor has the right to spin who ever they please for no reason depending on certain contracts.


:sleep1:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

For a union contractor I know very little about union rules. 95% of all my employees are hand picked men. I seldom have issues and seldom to never interface with the hall, except to send men to them that I think would be a good fit. I do have a few good friends that sit on boards and I can ask them questions if I do have issues, plus I have the Bylaw book.

And due to the economy I seldom get a chance to refer men to the hall these days.


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

brian john said:


> So you have a chance to pick up a guy you know is a good worker, you would have hired him at any time in the past if you had a chance. You are finally getting your company going again after some minor past issues. But your back, you need men and by need men I mean the best you know of. The next 4 guys on the bench are total slackers, you know this from first hand experience, number 5 is a guy you have wanted since day one.
> 
> What would you do? Create tort or suck it up and face another liquidation sale?


You can cherry pick guys here. I thin the way it works is that you can name hire your first guy, and the 2nd comes off the books (not necessarily the 1st guy on the list, but the highest guy on the list interested in the job), then your 3rd can be name hired and 4th off the books and so on...

That applies to a single batch of hires. The only rule I'm really aware of is that the name hired guys have to have been on the books for 2 weeks, there are probably a pile of other if ands and buts.

Another thing I was made aware of when I had my car accident on Dec 20th is that the company I worked for could hire me back without any consideration of the list. When I was ready to go back to work, they could have had me come back, no matter my position on the list or who ahead of me might want to work there.

If the OP is in 586 (Ottawa) or 353 (GTA) territory, I'd just work wherever I could and keep calling the hall once a week until they got so sick of hearing from me that they give me a job....

I know a couple of apprentices who had zero connections that got in that way. They were clean cut, polite and just kept calling once a week and occasionally visiting the hall. That kind of persistence does pay off eventually.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The Union is only good in areas where you have to be Union to work, other than that they are just parasites for the most part. They have their hands in your pockets and you get little in return.


Why don't you go find the Commercial Divers forum, this board is for electricians we have enough trolls here... :thumbsup:


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

brian john said:


> For a union contractor I know very little about union rules. 95% of all my employees are hand picked men. I seldom have issues and seldom to never interface with the hall, except to send men to them that I think would be a good fit. I do have a few good friends that sit on boards and I can ask them questions if I do have issues, plus I have the Bylaw book.
> 
> And due to the economy I seldom get a chance to refer men to the hall these days.


You have one strange set up. Did your shop get organized? I think you said you were organized, but i didn't know if you had your shop already. Anyways it works for you, so good. If you wanted to hire today would you hire from the hall?


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The Union is only good in areas where you have to be Union to work, other than that they are just parasites for the most part. They have their hands in your pockets and you get little in return.


Obviously a scorned man.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> If you can make a living flipping burgers, why would you go to all the trouble to become an electrician? You can flip burgers and at the end of the month not even have enough to pay your cobra premium if you have a family.


I can say that you are better off to NOT continue your insurance through Cobra. It is cheaper to just buy and pay for your own plan rather than pay for Cobra.


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Why don't you go find the Commercial Divers forum, this board is for electricians we have enough trolls here... :thumbsup:


Wouldn't this also apply to BN?


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> For a union contractor I know very little about union rules. 95% of all my employees are hand picked men. I seldom have issues and seldom to never interface with the hall, except to send men to them that I think would be a good fit. I do have a few good friends that sit on boards and I can ask them questions if I do have issues, plus I have the Bylaw book.
> 
> And due to the economy I seldom get a chance to refer men to the hall these days.


If I owned a business I would know what contract I signed. Just as I do electrical work for a different local the first thing I do before I leave the hall is get a copy of that said contract. The language in the majority of the contracts I work under gives the right to the contractor the right to refuse anyone for no reason(even if that person has never worked for them before). I am of the opinion that the unions have bent over backwards to help contractors be competitive destroying conditions set by sacrifices of our fore fathers, so when I see some of the rants posted on this board (some by Brian,a person who claims to be a union contractor) I must laugh. The IBEW numbers have dropped and yes actions are being made to adapt to today's world.I guess when a person tells a story they can tell like they want to after all it is their creation.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

cbr said:


> I walked out of the JATC in my 4th year for a job offer in the oil industry I wish I would have finished. *Once you get that ticket you can travel anywhere you want.*


Is that what they tell you?

Yeah you can go anywhere, and then try to get a license in that area.


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## cbr (Jun 14, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Is that what they tell you?
> 
> Yeah you can go anywhere, and then try to get a license in that area.



Most contractors will let you work with an apprentice card for that state, a lot of states reciprocate as well.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> But it beats starving. The union can't put a man to work, yet to strengthen it's position it expects the man to not make a living.
> 
> The union's have to get a grip on reality.


 


It is really a catch 23 situation. However, a person ultimately has to do what they have to do. If they ultimately have to leave the union to bring in some money, they have to. Or, don't get caught.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Is that what they tell you?
> 
> Yeah you can go anywhere, and then try to get a license in that area.


 

I like fairy tales. When I was younger I spent a ton of money for an education that was supposed to provide economic security and stability. I'm now on my third career.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Is that what they tell you?
> 
> Yeah you can go anywhere, and then try to get a license in that area.


I know of a lot of guy's who do just that. I think he means to work out of another jurisdictions book 2.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I can say that you are better off to NOT continue your insurance through Cobra. It is cheaper to just buy and pay for your own plan rather than pay for Cobra.


 

If you are flipping burgers, does it really matter? You can't afford it anyway.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> If I owned a business I would know what contract I signed.


I have lawyers for that. I worry about what I have to worry about. Our local for the most part is a pro work local, supporting the men but understanding the needs of a contractor. So why should I waste time with something that does not need my attention.



> I am of the opinion that the unions have bent over backwards to help contractors be competitive destroying conditions set by sacrifices of our fore fathers,


Some how I doubt the contractors would agree with you. Taking a hefty raise in a depressed economy does not seem logical to me, Our "A" men just got a raise.



> so when I see some of the rants posted on this board (some by Brian,a person who claims to be a union contractor) I must laugh.


You have a sense of humor, PLEASE.



> The IBEW numbers have dropped and yes actions are being made to adapt to today's world.I guess when a person tells a story they can tell like they want to after all it is their creation.


Noah where your credibility suffers is you believe every negative union post is a fairy tale and every anti-management post is gospel. YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY. Where as, I TRY see all 3 sides of the issue, management, IBEW's and open shop electricians.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mike_586 said:


> You can cherry pick guys here. I thin the way it works is that you can name hire your first guy, and the 2nd comes off the books (not necessarily the 1st guy on the list, but the highest guy on the list interested in the job), then your 3rd can be name hired and 4th off the books and so on...
> .


 
This is my company, my money, my livelihood, I am a speciality contractor, I am not turning over my customers, equipment, vehicles and ability to sleep through the night to any man off the bench. I need to know who is driving my trucks. We have to pay above scale to hand pick union members and many of my men I found in open shops and brought them in. Some were apprentices under me.

I was union prior to going in business and we were a union shop from the day we opened the door.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> You have one strange set up. Did your shop get organized? I think you said you were organized, but i didn't know if you had your shop already. Anyways it works for you, so good. If you wanted to hire today would you hire from the hall?


 
I know an apprentice, I hired him green and got him in the "A" he will be starting his last year in December. I called him yesterday and asked him to request returning to my shop. I know quite a few "A" men that would jump ship to my firm if I need them. At this point I do not need any help. The apprentice I was discussing will ride with a mechanic to learn what we do, it will often cost me money to have a 2nd JW in lieu of an apprentice on a truck, but that is the price of business. He will be a long term investment.

Other than that if we cherry pick men from the hall we have to pay them foreman scale.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> If you are flipping burgers, does it really matter? You can't afford it anyway.



Well you certainly would have a hard time supporting a family by flipping burgers I would think. But what I meant was, my insurance from the local 26 is about to expire at the end of July because I've been out of work since October. If I want to continue with Cobra, then I will pay $800 per month. I can buy my own plan for starting at $270/month. It's a no-brainer.:thumbsup:


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

brian john said:


> This is my company, my money, my livelihood, I am a speciality contractor, I am not turning over my customers, equipment, vehicles and ability to sleep through the night to any man off the bench. I need to know who is driving my trucks. We have to pay above scale to hand pick union members and many of my men I found in open shops and brought them in. Some were apprentices under me.
> 
> I was union prior to going in business and we were a union shop from the day we opened the door.


I get where your coming from. I just got hired on to do service work for a company, I'll be filling out the paperwork on Friday and starting next Monday.

I'll be taking a van home, dealing with clients directly, buying materials, paperwork, etc. I'll be doing a mix of residential, commercial and industrial, along with a lot of schools and government work requiring security clearances. One day I can be in a local school filled with kids, the next a government office around an MP with a cabinet portfolio, and the next in a persons home. I don't just have to be able to do the work, paperwork, but I also represent the company with very little oversight and all that places a high level of faith in me.

No EC in their right mind would want just anyone in that position without some sort of screening process they had control over. So interviews were a requirement to get the job. I find it encouraging that the local allows ECs to screen guys for certain positions like service, foreman and other jobs and cherry pick (no rate increase for picking a cherry) half the automatons they need for construction. 

Its not perfect by a long shot, there are still a lot of glaring (to be honest I think most of those are imposed by IO) flaws, but I see a little give and take from both sides.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> I have lawyers for that. I worry about what I have to worry about. Our local for the most part is a pro work local, supporting the men but understanding the needs of a contractor. So why should I waste time with something that does not need my attention.
> 
> Noah where your credibility suffers is you believe every negative union post is a fairy tale and every anti-management post is gospel. YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY. Where as, I TRY see all 3 sides of the issue, management, IBEW's and open shop electricians.


You (by your post) own the company where you do not worry about what the contract has in it because you have lawyers to worry about it? The you say I have credibility issues??? If you are the owner of a union shop as you claim then that would require YOUR signature on that said contract.Something in your story just does not add up Brian.I hope you understand that all union contractors in that jurisdiction have to agree to the same contract? It resembles a court hearing where each side present their sides?(ring a bell yet?) There are offers and counter offers from both sides of the table(anything yet?)
Now for your point of view on my stance on contracts, I agree to work for a contract then I believe that contractor has to make money(that is my responsibility) I also believe that workers deserve to be treated humane and fair. So if you like to lay off the workers who went to the water keg more than twice a day in 100 degree heat I will file charges against you(so yeah I am pro worker)
Now Brian you say you are a union contractor but post numerous anti union post and do not appear to have a good grasp of the way unions actually 
work today.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Noah (if that is your name)


I can prove I am a EC, I can prove I am a union contractor, You CANNOT prove you are an electrician. AND that’s the truth.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Is that what they tell you?
> 
> Yeah you can go anywhere, and then try to get a license in that area.


From what I have read here Massachusetts must be strict. Unfortunately here in N.J. if you are looking for an electrical job just pick up the classifieds. You will see contractors looking for helpers and mechanics. No body decides when you changed from helper to mechanic but the ads usually say mechanic with 5 years experience so 5 years sounds about right. Anyone can work under a licensed contractor who has a business permit. There is no such thing as a journeyman test outside of the union. I have also completed a 4 year non union apprenticeship (read school). All it says is that I have completed so many hours of school. They tried to get some sort of state journeyman license but it never went through. I have worked with guys that have traveled all over the country and never heard of it being a problem, other than being away from home.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Every state is different, few in my experience enforce anything. In addition travelers often work large projects and no one is checking for licenses. Many union men seldom to never work in their locals but spend a life time traveling.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> Every state is different, few in my experience enforce anything. In addition travelers often work large projects and no one is checking for licenses. Many union men seldom to never work in their locals but spend a life time traveling.



Seems to me the Union doesn't care if you are licensed. All they care about is that you went through "their" school. For me, after being denied a spot in "their" apprenticeship a long time ago, I went to non union school and then got my license and came back to the union and they then gave me my A status.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> Every state is different, few in my experience enforce anything. In addition travelers often work large projects and no one is checking for licenses. Many union men seldom to never work in their locals but spend a life time traveling.


I can tell you that is not the case here in MA, RI & CT. Licensing is enforced.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> You (by your post) own the company where you do not worry about what the contract has in it because you have lawyers to worry about it? The you say I have credibility issues??? If you are the owner of a union shop as you claim then that would require YOUR signature on that said contract.Something in your story just does not add up Brian.I hope you understand that all union contractors in that jurisdiction have to agree to the same contract? It resembles a court hearing where each side present their sides?(ring a bell yet?) There are offers and counter offers from both sides of the table(anything yet?)
> Now for your point of view on my stance on contracts, I agree to work for a contract then I believe that contractor has to make money(that is my responsibility) I also believe that workers deserve to be treated humane and fair. So if you like to lay off the workers who went to the water keg more than twice a day in 100 degree heat I will file charges against you(so yeah I am pro worker)
> Now Brian you say you are a union contractor but post numerous anti union post and do not appear to have a good grasp of the way unions actually
> work today.


Brian only writes anti-union comments towards the begining of the month when he has to write that check for 10 grand to NECA for the MPR. The other three weeks, when he goes to the bank, hes OK.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Brother Noah said:


> Brian.I hope you understand that all union contractors in that jurisdiction have to agree to the same contract? It resembles a court hearing where each side present their sides?(ring a bell yet?) There are offers and counter offers from both sides of the table(anything yet?)
> Now for your point of view on my stance on contracts, *I agree to work for a contract *then I believe that contractor has to make money(that is my responsibility)


Wish the Union workers did live up to the contract they agree to around here.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BDB said:


> Wish the Union workers did live up to the contract they agree to around here.


The last job I worked at STP nuclear in Texas.
Brian you post so naive about the way the IBEW conducts business it leads those of us who actually have working knowledge of the IBEW doubt your post. I do not wish to work for a contractor who signs a contract without reading it first.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> The last job I worked at STP nuclear in Texas.
> Brian you post so naive about the way the IBEW conducts business it leads those of us who actually have working knowledge of the IBEW doubt your post. *I do not wish to work for a contractor* who signs a contract without reading it first.


Good, because there is not a snowballs chance in Haiti you would ever work for me. I have QUALIFIED electricians doing electric work, not contract reading lawyers, those guys I keep on retainer.

Yeah working for me would be a bust, over scale, above union benefits, bonuses, uniforms, company vehicle, travel pay on overtime jobs, 40 hours a week pretty much guaranteed, training above and beyond what the JATC offers ALL tools furnished, if you want or need a tool buy it all I ask is you take care of the tools. Yeah I am a real C**K SUCKER to work for, because I hired a lawyer to review and read ALL my contracts.

Lastly if you think any of the owners of a large corporation are reading a contract for the IBEW (I am assuming most of the jobs you hide on are for large firms). You really have a major misconception of how business works.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I can tell you that is not the case here in MA, RI & CT. Licensing is enforced.


 
Bob I know some states are tough as nails others could care less. Or they care but do nothing about it.

On large utility plants I do not think the local AHJ's, get involved?


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Good, because there is not a snowballs chance in Haiti you would ever work for me. I have QUALIFIED electricians doing electric work, not contract reading lawyers, those guys I keep on retainer.
> 
> Yeah working for me would be a bust, over scale, above union benefits, bonuses, uniforms, company vehicle, travel pay on overtime jobs, 40 hours a week pretty much guaranteed, training above and beyond what the JATC offers ALL tools furnished, if you want or need a tool buy it all I ask is you take care of the tools. Yeah I am a real C**K SUCKER to work for, because I hired a lawyer to review and read ALL my contracts.
> 
> Lastly if you think any of the owners of a large corporation are reading a contract for the IBEW (I am assuming most of the jobs you hide on are for large firms). You really have a major misconception of how business works.


So Brian are you not working on a government project where all tools are supplied? Cost plus? You come across to me a nonunion supervisor(not owner) large corporation owners spending the time you do on this site when they have a business to run makes little sense, but it your story tell as you wish.As I posted before the contractors take part in negotiations of the said contracts, not their lawyers. So you would like to have YOUR electricians in the dark about what is expected from them by the contract?That is not a productive way to do business is it? I have worked on a nonunion job as a supervisor on a government project where all tools were provided to the contractor and the employees got paid well and even then I read the contract I was working under.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> So Brian are you not working on a government project where all tools are supplied? Cost plus?


Do you know anything about the business? 




> You come across to me a nonunion supervisor(not owner) large corporation owners spending the time you do on this site when they have a business to run makes little sense, but it your story tell as you wish.As I posted before the contractors take part in negotiations of the said contracts, not their lawyers. So you would like to have YOUR electricians in the dark about what is expected from them by the contract?That is not a productive way to do business is it? I have worked on a nonunion job as a supervisor on a government project where all tools were provided to the contractor and the employees got paid well and even then I read the contract I was working under.


Like I said earlier a typical union lawyer type worker, not worth much on the job.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Several members on this forum are working on governemnt jobs. How many are getting ALL tools supplied, talking about your basic hand tools.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Brian only writes anti-union comments towards the begining of the month when he has to write that check for 10 grand to NECA for the MPR. The other three weeks, when he goes to the bank, hes OK.


 
Oh and I AM NOT a NECA member.


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## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

brian john said:


> Several members on this forum are working on governemnt jobs. How many are getting ALL tools supplied, talking about your basic hand tools.


Wish I was getting All tools provided. And 75% of our work is government.

Charlie


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

brian john said:


> Oh and I AM NOT a NECA member.


I dont know where yours go but ours are made out to Electrical Industry Escrow Account.

If you like steak dinners and enjoy patting other contractors on the back, the NECA meetings can be a real hoot.


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

brian john said:


> Several members on this forum are working on governemnt jobs. How many are getting ALL tools supplied, talking about your basic hand tools.


I doubt you'll hear from any...


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> Several members on this forum are working on governemnt jobs. How many are getting ALL tools supplied, talking about your basic hand tools.



For 8 years I worked on nothing but Federal jobsites in the local 26. We worked at the Pentagon, FDIC, NIH, PTO, AFRRI to name a few and I can tell you that we got no tools provided to us on any of those jobs.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

And let me add that we had it alot better than the big box electrical contractor on those sites (MC Dean) (non union) who makes their employees buy their own gangboxes and cordless drills and power tools. The only tools union electricians have to supply are their own hand tools. Power tools and gangboxes are provided by the contractor.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

And that is how it should be.


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

They-Call-Me-Sparky said:


> Alright well I'm as new as they get. I did a co-op stage in highschool and worked for this Commercial Union company as a labor for 8 months. Because it was just a small company i was also doing some minor electrical work. Pulling wires, Wiring plugs and Lights.
> 
> Anyways, My boss hooked me up with the Union Test before i left to go to college (took a one year program to learn as much as i could) I'm finished in about 3 weeks but im not sure if my boss can get me back in as an apprentice since they're union.
> 
> ...


On ElectricianTalk, the non-union members fancy themselves to be the utmost experts on the inner workings of the union.

They also seem to have a lot of time on their hands to union-bash. I mean a _lot_ of time.

I suggest you look at it as entertainment.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Stan B. said:


> On ElectricianTalk, the non-union members fancy themselves to be the utmost experts on the inner workings of the union.
> 
> They also seem to have a lot of time on their hands to union-bash. I mean a _lot_ of time.
> 
> I suggest you look at it as entertainment.


Where is there any union bashing going on in this post? Other than some disgruntled union members doing what they do best CRYING.

Jeeze and you wonder why the public in general dis-likes unions?


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

You wanna know what the weird thing is? My union hall is doing everything they can to help secure work with a non-union contractor named DynCorp. how weird is that. Hopefully next moth this time I'll be in Afghanistan serving my country for a second time. for 120,000.00 a year tax free and not paying for lodging or food. yeah!


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## cbr (Jun 14, 2011)

All-Circuits said:


> You wanna know what the weird thing is? My union hall is doing everything they can to help secure work with a non-union contractor named DynCorp. how weird is that. Hopefully next moth this time I'll be in Afghanistan serving my country for a second time. for 120,000.00 a year tax free and not paying for lodging or food. yeah!


its not all its cracked up to be i have been there 3 times once as military twice as a electrician depending on who you are with the hours suck. Both times i was stuck building a camp then taking it down then building it again in teh middle of no where. the hours were long and hard


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I can tell you that is not the case here in MA, RI & CT. Licensing is enforced.


Don't forget New hamshire and Maine,,, Vermont that is another world..:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Stan B. said:


> On ElectricianTalk, the non-union members fancy themselves to be the utmost experts on the inner workings of the union.


Some of us have positions where we have to put up with union crap all the time. Personally I worked as a consultant for many companies that used union labor, now our company works for clients that have in house union employees. Some of us used to be union then became non union too.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Is that what they tell you?
> 
> Yeah you can go anywhere, and then try to get a license in that area.


I know some non union programs that are guilty of saying the same thing.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

cbr said:


> its not all its cracked up to be i have been there 3 times once as military twice as a electrician depending on who you are with the hours suck. Both times i was stuck building a camp then taking it down then building it again in teh middle of no where. the hours were long and hard


 Well I'm being courted for a general foreman position, do you know what thatbnis like, I have no idea. But it's better money then I'm making now which is nothing. lol


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Where is there any union bashing going on in this post? Other than some disgruntled union members doing what they do best CRYING.
> 
> Jeeze and you wonder why the public in general dis-likes unions?


Now Brian this is your opinion or did you by chance have some data to back up your union bashing assertion? I do not know the answer but my question for a local #26 hand, do they supply all tools at Calverts Cliffs still? I just took a job at Savannah River Site (Department of Energy) in Aiken South Carolina where the government supplies even hand tools.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> I just took a job at Savannah River Site (Department of Energy) in Aiken South Carolina where the government supplies even hand tools.



OK you win, be all see all Noah.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> the government supplies even hand tools.


The feds never gave us hand tools on the many jobs that we worked on.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

> government supplies even hand tools.


Yes I can see in this case they would, or large utilities acting as electrical contractors. No tools in no tools out at some plants. Otherwise employees bring what they are required to and employers supply whatever else the job will need. And that is how it would be every where including military bases.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

cabletie said:


> ! No tools in no tools out. Otherwise employees bring what they are required to and employers supply whatever else the job will need. And that is how it would be every where including military bases.



Are you a pothead Focker?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

cabletie said:


> Yes I can see in this case they would, or large utilities acting as electrical contractors. Nothing leaves a nuke plant already in operation! No tools in no tools out. Otherwise employees bring what they are required to and employers supply whatever else the job will need. And that is how it would be every where including military bases.



The nukes I understand. As far as military facilities go, I live in the heart of military facilities and have worked at countless bases here and around the country. Not one hand tool was ever furnished. I was at a base today and everyone on site was utilizing their own hand tools. And as bases go this particular facility has the highest level of security in the area.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> The nukes I understand. As far as military facilities go, I live in the heart of military facilities and have worked at countless bases here and around the country. Not one hand tool was ever furnished. I was at a base today and everyone on site was utilizing their own hand tools. And as bases go this particular facility has the highest level of security in the area.


Tell these clowns Brian....:thumbsup:


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## Rob Roy. (Jun 21, 2011)

I know Noah. He's a white trash gypsy who talks smack out of his rear. I can't believe I find this place and he's here too, again. The union is good for a fat daddy pay check, but dealing with the noah's of the world makes me second guess my affiliation sometimes.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rob Roy. said:


> I know Noah. He's a white trash gypsy who talks smack out of his rear. I can't believe I find this place and he's here too, again. The union is good for a fat daddy pay check, but dealing with the noah's of the world makes me second guess my affiliation sometimes.


It takes all kinds, for every slacker there are a lot more hard working men and women doing their job, concerned with safety, quality making money for THE MAN and supporting their family.

But most of the members here had him pegged some time ago.


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## Colorado Jim (Jun 21, 2011)

brian john said:


> It takes all kinds, for every slacker there are a lot more hard working men and women doing their job, concerned with safety, quality making money for THE MAN and supporting their family.
> 
> But most of the members here had him pegged some time ago.


 Agreed!


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Rob Roy. said:


> I know Noah. He's a white trash gypsy who talks smack out of his rear. I can't believe I find this place and he's here too, again. The union is good for a fat daddy pay check, but dealing with the noah's of the world makes me second guess my affiliation sometimes.


LOL, I do travel a good bit some how missed a rob roy(or whatever moniker you are using for this post) Look Brian you have proven your self by your own post and now are making attempts to slander me.(to me a sign of fear of over exposure) You do not understand contract language, then reply that you have lawyers to take care of that. I have no problem with who I am or my work ethics. Now as far as a fat daddy check, 8 for 8 means you earn what you are paid.


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## randy.wagner (Jun 21, 2011)

I've seen the Noah's on the big jobs.

They want 10% above scale just to act interested in what's happening.

If not, they sound like a broken record, 'tell me what to do?? I want to help. Just let me hand you tools. Please, spoon feed me.'


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> LOL, I do travel a good bit some how missed a rob roy(or whatever moniker you are using for this post) Look Brian you have proven your self by your own post and now are making attempts to slander me.(to me a sign of fear of over exposure) You do not understand contract language, then reply that you have lawyers to take care of that. I have no problem with who I am or my work ethics. Now as far as a fat daddy check, 8 for 8 means you earn what you are paid.


Noah I do not have to slander you, you do a good enough job every time you post.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah I do not have to slander you, you do a good enough job every time you post.


Thats it? No productive solutions? It has been some time since I worked nonunion but just reading the way some have posted here it must be a dreary life. I do wish all who work for a living a better way of life on and off the job.


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Thats it? No productive solutions? It has been some time since I worked nonunion


From what I can tell you have never done electrical work at all union or nonunion.

Others have mentioned that you have never participated in answering electrical questions and after searching 10 pages of your posts I can not find any either.

I thought these forums were for electrically related tradespeople which IMO means you shouldn't be posting here at all.


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## UnitedWeStand (Jun 18, 2011)

oh no more fighting on this site. i'd like to see you two in the octagon


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

UnitedWeStand said:


> oh no more fighting on this site. i'd like to see you two in the octagon


We are not fighting we are having a disagreement. Noah thinks anyone that is not a love or leave it kind of guy is anti-union. The union is not perfect and need some changes. He can’t or won’t believe that.


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## cbr (Jun 14, 2011)

To me the union today has almost become what it once fought against


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