# star Delta connection/VSD



## ajayi_adekunle (May 23, 2010)

How do i connect a variable speed drive to a star delta controled motor?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Don't worry about the star connection. Wire your drive for the delta connection and ramp it up in the programming.


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## ajayi_adekunle (May 23, 2010)

*Star/delta vsd*

Thanks, But how do i ramp it up with the programming.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

There will be a drive parameter "Start Ramp". In most drives the default time is 10 seconds. If, due to motor starting load, you need a longer start ramp, change this parameter to a longer time. This parameter allows the drive to function as a "soft start", which is the basic purpose of a wye/delta starter. The parameter number and setting procedure will vary depending on the brand of drive used.

Welcome to the site.

Hello in Nigeria.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Wire the motor for either low or high voltage (Your voltage) or "run" and connect three leads from the drive output to the motor. Yes, thats all you do. 
There is nothing to program.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> There is nothing to program.


That's pretty presumptuous, don't you think?


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## ajayi_adekunle (May 23, 2010)

Thx Every bdy:thumbsup:. i am really happy i joined dis forum. pls can nebdy advise me on oil and gas automation, as i will like to pick a career on dat path. what specific skills will i need to be a major player in oil and gas automation sector..


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I've done a few small oil refineries and stuff like that.

One thing you'll need to know is PLCs. Just about everything automated around oil and gas is controlled by a PLC. Not so much programming, but how to connect digital and analog components. 

For example, a pressure transducer is an analog device, so it'll go to an analog output block on the PLC. Sometimes, the design engineer will show it connected to a digital output block. A good installer will be able to spot these problems before they get hooked up wrong.

You'll also need to know a lot about classified (explosive and flammable) areas, and how to handle them using a minimum of expensive parts. 

A knowledge of the names of sensors, switches, and other components will also be needed. 

Rob


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## edcoho (May 23, 2010)

ajayi_adekunle said:


> how do i connect a variable speed drive to a star delta controled motor?


rtfm..........


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> That's pretty presumptuous, don't you think?


No, it's common knowledge and fact you connect 3 wires from the drive to the motor along with the EGC. The connections in the peckerhead mean nothing to the drive unless they are connected wrong.
There is no parameter to address in this regard. When you first set up the drive you enter all the motor nameplate information. The voltage parameter is the motor connection diagram.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> That's pretty presumptuous, don't you think?


 
Yes, it is. I have NEVER installed a drive that I didn't have to reconfigure from the default settings for any size motor. and I've installed pleny of different sizes and different brands. He made a huge assumption


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yes, it is. I have NEVER installed a drive that I didn't have to reconfigure from the default settings for that size motor. and I've installed pleny of different sizes and different brands. He made a huge assumption


Exactly my point.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yes, it is. I have NEVER installed a drive that I didn't have to reconfigure from the default settings for that size motor. and I've installed pleny of different sizes and different brands. He made a huge assumption


I have never set up a drive that did not require some programming right out of the box either. How many drives have you had to revert to factory settings?

When setting up a control, the first thing you do is set the MOTOR parameters. After this basic setup you can run the motor. Now of course we must address the application and program the drive to operate in the fashion we require.

VFD's only have three motor output terminals. If you have a 12, 9, 6 or 3 lead motor you can only use three connections. The drive does not make these connections for you. You make the motor connections. This has NOTHING to do with the control.
The control does not care if you have a twelve lead or three lead motor as long as your connections are correct. 

There is no parameter on any VFD that requires the installer to input the the number of motor leads. I cannot believe I am having to argue this most basic of points.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> I have never set up a drive that did not require some programming right out of the box either. How many drives have you had to revert to factory settings?
> 
> When setting up a control, the first thing you do is set the MOTOR parameters. After this basic setup you can run the motor. Now of course we must address the application and program the drive to operate in the fashion we require.
> 
> ...


 
I can't believe you're arguing it either,,,,,,since NOBODY EVER mentioned anything about the number of leads. What are you talking about? That's just something you dreamed up. Re read all the post and you will see why we said what we said.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I use Allen Bradley VFDs.Send them the reqs,they program the parameters,3 wires in,3 wires to motor!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> There is no parameter on any VFD that requires the installer to input the the number of motor leads. I cannot believe I am having to argue this most basic of points.


Um... maybe I missed something. Who's talking about number of leads here? Not me. I think you're reading one thing and thinking another. 

You suggested that no programming was necessary. I offered that this was probably not true. You did, after all, say to hook up the three wires and that's all you have to do. That's where I went, "huh"? There's always some sort of programming to do.


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## edcoho (May 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Um... maybe I missed something. Who's talking about number of leads here? Not me. I think you're reading one thing and thinking another.
> 
> You suggested that no programming was necessary. I offered that this was probably not true. You did, after all, say to hook up the three wires and that's all you have to do. That's where I went, "huh"? There's always some sort of programming to do.


 Line in, motor leads out. As far as programming you'll have to bite the bullet and RTFM!!:thumbsup:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Marc, yes it looks like there are some communication issues here. But his first question was: 

_"How do i connect a variable speed drive to a star delta controled motor"?_

This is a wiring question not a programming question.

Then Varmit chimes in with a ramp function that is a programmable feature, He said:

_"There will be a drive parameter "Start Ramp". In most drives the default time is 10 seconds. If, due to motor starting load, you need a longer start ramp, change this parameter to a longer time. This parameter allows the drive to function as a "soft start", which is the basic purpose of a wye/delta starter. The parameter number and setting procedure will vary depending on the brand of drive used".
_
This started the conflicting responses. *The initial question was how to wire a six lead motor to a VFD.*
The answer to the OP's question does not lie in the parameters. It all about connecting the motor to the drive.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> *The initial question was how to wire a six lead motor to a VFD.*
> The answer to the OP's question does not lie in the parameters. It all about connecting the motor to the drive.


Right, which is why I told him to just wire it for delta, and further went on to tell him to adjust the start ramp in the drive. 

You're a little up tight. Go get a massage or something.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Right, which is why I told him to just wire it for delta, and further went on to tell him to adjust the start ramp in the drive.
> 
> You're a little up tight. Go get a massage or something.


Being a bit presumptuous aren't you? If the motor is a six lead dual voltage motor and he needs the high voltage connection he would wire it in WYE, not Delta.
And why instruct him to adjust ramp when he does not even know how to wire the motor to the drive.


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## mior (Mar 7, 2010)

*Connection of Star-Delta & VSD*



ajayi_adekunle said:


> How do i connect a variable speed drive to a star delta controled motor?


Please correct me if I’m wrong; as far as I concern, star-delta & VSD is the types of starter for motors and each motor only having 1 type of starter. So, you are not able to connect star-delta & VSD since there will be only 1 starter in 1 time.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

mior said:


> Please correct me if I’m wrong; as far as I concern, star-delta & VSD is the types of starter for motors and each motor only having 1 type of starter. So, you are not able to connect star-delta & VSD since there will be only 1 starter in 1 time.


 

He has a motor with star configuration, and delta configuration. He's not sure how to wire it to a VSD. He's not speaking of wiring a stardelta starter and VSD, to a motor, as you said there's no need for that.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Being a bit presumptuous aren't you? If the motor is a six lead dual voltage motor and he needs the high voltage connection he would wire it in WYE, not Delta.
> And why instruct him to adjust ramp when he does not even know how to wire the motor to the drive.


 He would not wire the motor in WYE. He never said it was a six lead (did he?). The motor has to be connected in delta. If it's dual voltage, it's probably 12 lead.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

ajayi_adekunle said:


> How do i connect a variable speed drive to a star delta controled motor?


This is what he asked. A simple question.



CFL said:


> He would not wire the motor in WYE. He never said it was a six lead (did he?). The motor has to be connected in delta. If it's dual voltage, it's probably 12 lead.


It can only be a 6 or 12 lead motor. How do you know its a 12 lead? My guess would be six lead. Your guess is 12 lead. 
He must use the wye connection if he is connecting for high voltage and delta for low voltage. He never said if the motor was dual voltage, or if was 6 or 12 lead. He said "star/delta" This indicates a 6 or 12 lead motor. I added dual voltage as he never mentioned it and it very well could be rated dual voltage with 6 leads.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> This is what he asked. A simple question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Finally have a chance to check back in. So, you're saying on a 6 lead motor, high voltage would be connected wye, low voltage delta? I thought all dual voltage motors used the same configuration (wye or delta) only they have 2 sets of windings. High volt is connected series, low volt connected parallel. Please don't reply with some BS answer. Think about it first. I would say if it's a 6 lead motor, and it's wye start, delta run, then it MUST be single voltage.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

CFL said:


> Finally have a chance to check back in. So, you're saying on a 6 lead motor, high voltage would be connected wye, low voltage delta? I thought all dual voltage motors used the same configuration (wye or delta) only they have 2 sets of windings. High volt is connected series, low volt connected parallel. Please don't reply with some BS answer. Think about it first. I would say if it's a 6 lead motor, and it's wye start, delta run, then it MUST be single voltage.


 
I will keep it simple due I dealt with alot of European motours and with 6 leads Y-D format if you going to hook up the VSD just hook up in Delta format { you can not leave on wye too long otherwise you will burn up the winding when it get up to the running speed }

For the dual voltage motor it will wired for either Wye or Delta all it depending on couple key items the quick tip is look at nameplate it will tell ya the quick way to see if on delta or on wye. { becarefull some will have interal common wye point }

Merci,Marc


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

6 lead motors come in a lot of different configurations. 

Some are dual-voltage wye-delta, like Marc described above. With this type, the voltages are not double/half. It'll be something like 240/415. Very common with European/IEC motors.

A lot of larger single-voltage motors have 6 leads, to facilitate wye-delta starting. Always use the delta connection for across-the-line, soft-start, and VFDs. (L1=T1,T6; L2=T2,T4; L3=T3,T5)

Some single-voltage two-speed motors have 6 leads. The connection will depend on the type of motor (constant torque/HP, or variable torque).

A single-voltage motor designed for part-winding start will have 6 leads also. The dead giveaway here is they're labeled T1, T2, T3; T7, T8, T9. Use the run connection for across-the-line starting, soft-start, and VFDs (L1=T1,T7; L2=T2,T8; L3=T3,T9).

12 lead dual voltage motors must be connected for delta or run for across-the-line, soft-start, or VFDs. (High voltage L1=T1,T12; L2=T2,T10; L3=T3,T11; splice T4&T7; splice T5&T8; splice T6&T9. Low voltage L1=T1,T6,T7,T12; L2=T2,T4,T8,T10; L3=T3,T5,T9,T11).

There could be others, that's all I can think of right now.

Rob


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Rob.,

I will give you our common European connections on 6 leads motours.

Run mode delta connection 

L1- U1&W2 
L2- V1&U2
L3- W1&V2

If you want other listing let me know I will list more in both 6 et 12 leads connections.

Merci,Marc


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

A *6 lead dual voltage motor* connected to A VFD or across line must be connected in a *wye for high** voltage* and *delta for low voltage*. Guys we are making to big a deal here. Check your engineering handbooks.

IEC Nomenclature 6 lead.
Dual Voltage

High Voltage Wye
L1 - U1 
L2 - V1
L3 - W1
U2,V2,W2 Tied Together.

Low Voltage Delta
L1 - U1,W2
L2 - V1,U2,
L3 - W1,V2

NEMA Nomenclature 6 Leads
Dual Voltage

High Voltage Wye
L1 - 1
L2 - 2
L3 - 3
4,5,6 connected together

Low Voltage Delta
L1 - 1,6
L2 - 2,4
L3 - 3,5

All dual voltage motors are connected for the supply voltage. Single voltage motors are always connected for delta run and wye start. This is not true for 6 lead dual voltage motors.
We are not discussing wye start delta run.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Rob.,
> 
> I will give you our common European connections on 6 leads motours.
> 
> ...


Marc,
You are showing a single voltage connection for run or the low voltage connection in a *dual voltage 6 lead motor*. 
Anyone that has a pocket engineering handbook (yes, the little free books you guys toss into a drawer and never look at) have the IEC and the NEMA terminal markings and connections.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

John V.,

The connections I provide is on delta { 240 volt triphase or 415 volts triphase } 

however with 12 lead motour that will be complety diffrent beast to deal but here the list

Low voltage { 240 volt triphase }

Star connection { wye connection }

L1 - U1&U5
L2- V1&V5
L3- W1&W5

Join - U2&V2&W2&U6&V6&W6

Delta connection

L1- U1&U5&W2&W6
L2- V1&V5&U2&U6
L3- W1&W5&V2&V6

Join - none 

Now next conferation is high voltage { typical 415 volts }

Star { Wye connection } 

L1-U1
L2-V1
L3-W1

Join 
U2&U5, V2&V5, W2&W5, U6&V6&W6

Delta connection

L1-U1&W6
L2-V1&U6
L3-W1&V6

Join 

U2&U5, V2&V5, W2&W5

Hope that clear up a bit.

Merci,Marc


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

It's sorta funny, I can quote just about any motor connection from memory, if the leads are marked T1, T2, etc. But the U,V,W markings are completely confusing.

I can connect a motor properly with IEC lead markings, but I have to look at the diagram.

Lack of experience, I guess.

Rob


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