# IN WALL romex repair kit.



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I was told that 3M had an approved repair kit for in-wall boo-boos. I tried to purchase one today and was told that it isn't so........Is it?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah, and HD carries it. I THINK it only says its listed for use in manufactured homes though. Repairs and extensions.

This thread has been around once or twice before, and several guys here seem to get pretty upset about it. I say as long as its listed and legal, have at it.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Yeah, and HD carries it. I THINK it only says its listed for use in manufactured homes though. Repairs and extensions.
> 
> This thread has been around once or twice before, and several guys here seem to get pretty upset about it. I say as long as its listed and legal, have at it.


Thanks, I believe that a kit, if out there is born out of necessity. From the guy who said that it was not "out there" I bought a 3M kit for underground. It was a set screw type and only for solid wire. :thumbsup:


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## Captain_obvious (Aug 5, 2014)

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-2-Wire-1-Clam-CPGI-1116377-2/202204326/

Used them in a pinch few times rewiring flooded homes after sandy.

The really suck


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

Tyco splice and tap kit. Home Depot has them, and yes, they do suck.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Suck like you'd never use them again no matter what, or, suck like you just would'nt leave any business cards with the customer after the repair?


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Use these! 


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Hmacanada said:


> View attachment 38524
> 
> Use these!
> 
> ...


Que eso Hmacanada?
(whats that?)


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## Captain_obvious (Aug 5, 2014)

MHElectric said:


> Suck like you'd never use them again no matter what, or, suck like you just would'nt leave any business cards with the customer after the repair?


Suck as in they are a PITA to install


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## Captain_obvious (Aug 5, 2014)

zac said:


> Que eso Hmacanada? (whats that?)


I don't know but whatever that is isn't approved.

The POS I posted is, how I have no idea but it is...


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Suck like you'd never use them again no matter what, or, suck like you just would'nt leave any business cards with the customer after the repair?


They take way too much time to install. I don't think they'll fail, though.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Captain_obvious said:


> I don't know but whatever that is isn't approved.
> 
> The POS I posted is, how I have no idea but it is...


Thanks,
I have that kit but have never used it. I'm waiting for the day it is an absolute necessity! Thanks for the heads up.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Hmacanada said:


> View attachment 38524
> 
> Use these!
> 
> ...


Whats the size of that EGC, looks smaller?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Through crimps staggered then heat shrink, legal to bury in a wall here.

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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

zac said:


> Que eso Hmacanada?
> 
> (whats that?)



Heat shrink kits up to #8 for underground splices or submersible pump installs .
And no I don't make it a habit to use them in a wall .
They are approved but not for that use.
I was just being. Dumb a##


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

meadow said:


> Whats the size of that EGC, looks smaller?



Nmwu wire #14 to a pole light I hit the other day when digging a trench.

I can't stand screw type splices with shrink .
Saw way to many fail over time.
One little bit of moisture gets in and you have a nice little burn happening!

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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> PRODUCT OVERVIEW Model:# CPGI-1116377-2 | Internet/Catalog: # 202204326 | Store SKU:# 302061
> Tyco Electronic's Non-metallic splice and tap kits provide a fast and reliable method for splicing or tapping 2 wire w/ ground and splicing 3 wire w/ground non-metallic cables up to 300 volts. They are designed and approved for use in rework within existing structures. Splice and Tap Kits also eliminate wire nuts for installation and replace the conventional method for adding a splice or tap for non-metallic cable without the need for exposed and unsightly junction boxes. *NEC approved Article 334-40b.*
> 2 Wire Ccnnection
> For Use On 12 or 14 AWG (300 Volt) 2 wire NM cable with ground
> ...


pos....

~CS~


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Here's where you make splices:

1) In junction boxes in inconspicuous places like a closet or behind doors.
2) In recessed lighting JB's or in a separate JB above a recessed light.
3) In a 4X4 box with a plaster ring in a switch or receptacle location
4) By adding an unplanned receptacle location and telling your customer it's a freebie 

I have never had an absolute need to make a splice inside a wall.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The modular homes all utilize similar connectors 

They are stab lock mechanisms , which any worthy electrician eschews , often carrying the entire 15 and/or 20 amp load, buried in the construction of them

Guess where we backfeed and abandon most nfg wiring.....:whistling2:

~CS~


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## Captain_obvious (Aug 5, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> The modular homes all utilize similar connectors They are stab lock mechanisms , which any worthy electrician eschews , often carrying the entire 15 and/or 20 amp load, buried in the construction of them Guess where we backfeed and abandon most nfg wiring.....:whistling2: ~CS~


Not all, I haven't seen them in a few years.

They used to be used where the boxes came together either in the attic or under neath. Now it's all just j- boxes


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Apex, which hails from Penn, still installs them Cap'n

~CS~


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

99cents said:


> Here's where you make splices: 1) In junction boxes in inconspicuous places like a closet or behind doors. 2) In recessed lighting JB's or in a separate JB above a recessed light. 3) In a 4X4 box with a plaster ring in a switch or receptacle location 4) By adding an unplanned receptacle location and telling your customer it's a freebie  I have never had an absolute need to make a splice inside a wall.


ive added (smoke det) wgen necessary


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

So what is safer that in-wall splice kit or one in a handy box and buried in the wall...illegaly?:whistling2:


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## Captain_obvious (Aug 5, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> Apex, which hails from Penn, still installs them Cap'n ~CS~


I just did an apex three weeks ago, four boxer up on pilings.

Not one of them splices were present.


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> pos....



First of all, I've never installed one of these in-wall splices. I used to carry one in my service truck when I did NM but I only use it now to tie my ladder down. 

You have a valid opinion CS but what is it borne of? Have you had a bad experience trying to chase down a poor connection and found this to be the culprit? And that's an open question. Has anyone experienced this?

I've worked on plenty of mobile (sorry; Manufactured) homes and have found theirs to be less than adequate. Their malfunctions are hard to locate, they are a jumbled mess, and difficult to repair. But, they are also installed hastely and by minimum wage workers. And, they are not quite the same product as the ones I've seen for NM.

Fact is I've never heard of a failure of one of these. They are code compliant and UL listed (QAAV - page 275 of the 2009 White Book).

Someone please tell me why every time this subject gets brought up around a heard of electricians that it becomes controversial? 

:tank: Ok, hit me; I'm ready !!!!!


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

BTW, are these kits only listed for manufactured homes, or all dwelling units?

What about using them on commercial jobs done in romex?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> So what is safer that in-wall splice kit or one in a handy box and buried in the wall...illegaly?:whistling2:


I bet the handy box does not have a cover on it.


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## Captain_obvious (Aug 5, 2014)

MHElectric said:


> BTW, are these kits only listed for manufactured homes, or all dwelling units? What about using them on commercial jobs done in romex?


 Tyco Electronic's Non-metallic splice and tap kits provide a fast and reliable method for splicing or tapping 2 wire w/ ground and splicing 3 wire w/ground non-metallic cables up to 300 volts. They are designed and approved for use in rework within existing structures. Splice and Tap Kits also eliminate wire nuts for installation and replace the conventional method for adding a splice or tap for non-metallic cable without the need for exposed and unsightly junction boxes. NEC approved Article 334-40b.
2 Wire Ccnnection
For Use On 12 or 14 AWG (300 Volt) 2 wire NM cable with ground
Eliminates junction boxes and wire nuts
Fast & simple to install
NEC compliant - article 334-40b, 2005 & 2008 NEC
UL & CSA listed


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

MHElectric said:


> BTW, are these kits only listed for manufactured homes, or all dwelling units?
> 
> What about using them on commercial jobs done in romex?



2009 White Book page 275:
NONMETALLIC-SHEATHED CABLE
INTERCONNECTORS (QAAV)

NEC 334.40 (B) The 2011 uses the term "tap device". The 2014 clarifies by using the official word "interconnector". It doesn't change the meaning, only clarifies what it already meant.

"...for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished."

No other restriction or specification that I've found. :shrug:


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

These things are only approved to be buried in walls when one must "repair" wiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed. Example: someone cuts the NM cable while cutting in a door , you can use one of those things to repair the NM cable. You can not use them to add more wiring or splice new wiring and bury them. 

2014 NEC
334.40(B) Self contained switches,self contained receptacles, and non metallic sheathed cable interconnector devices of insulating material that are listed shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for repair wiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

manchestersparky said:


> These things are only approved to be buried in walls when one must "repair" wiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed. Example: someone cuts the NM cable while cutting in a door , you can use one of those things to repair the NM cable. You can not use them to add more wiring or splice new wiring and bury them.
> 
> 2014 NEC
> 334.40(B) Self contained switches,self contained receptacles, and non metallic sheathed cable interconnector devices of insulating material that are listed shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for repair wiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed.


In the 2014, it looks like the word "repair wiring" has been added, or is new. What did it say before?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Captain_obvious said:


> I just did an apex three weeks ago, four boxer up on pilings.
> 
> Not one of them splices were present.


Maybe they got sued enough and smartened up Cap'n....~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Walkman said:


> You have a valid opinion CS but what is it borne of?


Because most of my service work is someone elses _bad_ connection Walkman.

I look at any marketed connection or device that makes a connection with decades of such experience(s) 

~CS~


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

MHElectric said:


> In the 2014, it looks like the word "repair wiring" has been added, or is new. What did it say before?


 
Here is the 2011 wording.

* (B) Devices of Insulating Material.​*​​​​Switch, outlet, and​
tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be​ used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring​ in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and​ fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit​ around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall​ fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of​ the covering has been removed. Where connections to conductors​ are by binding-screw terminals, there shall be available​ as many terminals as conductors.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Awg-Dawg said:


> Here is the 2011 wording.
> 
> * (B) Devices of Insulating Material.​*​​​​Switch, outlet, and​
> tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be​ used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring​ in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and​ fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit​ around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall​ fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of​ the covering has been removed. Where connections to conductors​ are by binding-screw terminals, there shall be available​ as many terminals as conductors.


Sounds like under the 11 code, it was not limited to repairs only. Interesting. The 14 is definitely written better, but now you can't use it for anything other than a repair. 

I wonder why they decided on that? What the heck is the difference between using this product for a repair or an extension??!!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

manchestersparky said:


> These things are only approved to be buried in walls when one must "repair" wiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed. Example: someone cuts the NM cable while cutting in a door , you can use one of those things to repair the NM cable. You can not use them to add more wiring or splice new wiring and bury them.
> 
> 2014 NEC
> 334.40(B) Self contained switches,self contained receptacles, and non metallic sheathed cable interconnector devices of insulating material that are listed shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for repair wiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed.


It is for repairing and adding a tap.
All here know that I dispise solid wire, and therefore Romex but, it is a necessary evil.
With that said, yes, HD does carry them and I do keep them on the truck.
BTW, I now only carry the tap style just due to the fact that they can be used for both a splice and a tap.
They are very easy to use and have solved lots of problems that are typical with rope installs


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Good Q MH.....

~CS~


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

It's weird how you get conditioned, everything in me says using those is wrong. I agree with _Semi-ret_ though: If I was gonna bury a splice in the wall, I'd be a hell of a lot more comfortable enclosing it in a JB than using that Tyco splice.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

It's made so that each side is assembled and then they plug together.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Hmacanada said:


> Nmwu wire #14 to a pole light I hit the other day when digging a trench.
> 
> I can't stand screw type splices with shrink .
> Saw way to many fail over time.
> ...


The phase and neut #12?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

jrannis said:


> It's made so that each side is assembled and then they plug together.


So if the repair makes the wire too short you just have to add another, along with a piece of NM?


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## Al Lamke (Sep 15, 2010)

2014 NEC Check art 334.40!


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> Because most of my service work is someone elses _bad_ connection Walkman.
> 
> I look at any marketed connection or device that makes a connection with decades of such experience(s)
> 
> ~CS~


And this is why I asked the question. I mentioned that I don't have any experiences with this product. It's like Big John said about being conditioned to not like a new method or product. I was asking if you or anyone else has had any bad experiences with this particular product. 

In the past, I did everything I could not to have to use one because of my conditioning but as of yet have never heard of an incident where someone found one of these interconnectors to have failed.

I don't like the idea of them either 'cause I hafta follow unlicensed, substandard people's work around everyday and I am forever putting their crap back together so it'll stay when someone touches it. I even had a job today where this very thing happened to me. So I believe that I understand your apprehension but at the same time I don't share your reticence to accept a compliant and listed product for it's intended use.

I'm not saying this is a good product. I'm saying that I don't know if it is or not. Has anyone seen one of these fail?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Big John is right Walkman. 

We exist in a trade which foists another _'magic widget'_ upon us the whim of manufacturers.

Most of which know that if the 1 1/2 Dz NRTL's won't pass it, or pass it with concessions, the independent labs will

The trade rags , who's writers are never on line anymore, and would rather have _#14 solid thrust under their nails_ than opine at any consumer reportage level, will run full page ads on it

The cmp's _(some of which actually seat ex-nrtl employees)_ will pen accommodating codes advocating 3rd world and/or substandard installs 
_( art 550 being the most obvious dinner bell)_

The inspectors will insist we provide a listing , and grudgingly acknowledge yet another bureaucratic debacle in our midst

The spectre of counterfeit goods, which are in reality made in the same 3rd world sweatshop by the same manufacturers howling we should be better trained to recognize them ,will blame us if they're imported here by mistake 

The fire dept's , most of which claim it's _'electrical in nature'_, with no more than a smoking cellar hole for forensics , will result on a licensed and qualified EC being the focal point of all the above players, last but not least the insurance cabal's wrath.

I think this way with every electrical good i carry

So if you see some of us as conditioned , we come by it honestly

~CS~


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I dunno. If it's only approved for repairs of concealed wiring, you have to expose the damaged cable to install the widget. That probably means opening a wall or ceiling. I would prefer to make the splice in a box, even if it means installing a blank plate, a receptacle or dummy switch.

Even if the gizmo is approved, I like to have splices accessible. Personal preference.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

A 4" octagon with twisted splices and good old fashioned wirenuts. When in a pinch, this method has proved reliable since our grandfather's as a concealed splice.

Note; I do not endorse or encourage concealing splices, but there are times reality supersedes code.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> A 4" octagon with twisted splices and good old fashioned wirenuts. When in a pinch, this method has proved reliable since our grandfather's as a concealed splice.
> 
> Note; I do not endorse or encourage concealing splices, but there are times reality supersedes code.


I doubt there is many electricians who's hands are clean of this. Nobody likes it, but it is what it is, Especially when your caught in a tight jam. Not encouraging it either, but I won't pretend like I haven't done it before.

Doing remodels, you see this stuff all the time. Commercial jobs, residential jobs, it doesn't matter - once they tear the sheetrock down you won't believe how many buried splices have been there the whole time. 

I go to far lengths not to bury a box, but if this product is code compliant and reliable, then I think I may pick a few up and see how it does.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Big John is right Walkman.
> 
> We exist in a trade which foists another _'magic widget'_ upon us the whim of manufacturers.
> 
> ...


So are you saying you like the product or not?:jester:


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I never bury splices in boxes in the wall. The sheetrock guys do it for me:whistling2:.


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

A Little Short said:


> So are you saying you like the product or not?:jester:


I was thinking that it's not so much a matter of liking the product or not liking it as it is a matter of if the product is any good or not.

I've yet to hear of anyone who has found a failure of this product. :detective:

:::waiting patiently:::


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

You won't find a documented afci failure either Walkman.

That's because few realize what they can/can't do

Mr Lee of the CSPC _(another suck up)_ claims a class action suit needs a contingent of field examples pursuant to it's validity

It's a perfect storm, other than the multitudes of us that assume it's crap ,only a handful of posters here can take the it down to nuts/bolts.

The same goes for much of what we install



~CS~


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> You won't find a documented afci failure either Walkman.



I haven't looked for any documented failures but that's irrelevant 'cause in the case of AFCI's; they fail all the time and many of us have personal experiences as evidenced by the many discussions. 

The Product Safety Commission's treachery notwithstanding, I'm just asking if there's anyone here who has experienced a failure of this product.

:2guns:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :walkman: 

Please don't kill me for being curious.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Walkman said:


> Please don't kill me for being curious.


No, not I Walkman

Actually i applaude you for being curious, go you!

But what you're asking is hard to come by, because failure is so often an orphan

~CS~


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Big John is right Walkman.
> 
> We exist in a trade which foists another _'magic widget'_ upon us the whim of manufacturers.
> 
> ...





A Little Short said:


> So are you saying you like the product or not?:jester:





Walkman said:


> I was thinking that it's not so much a matter of liking the product or not liking it as it is a matter of if the product is any good or not.
> 
> I've yet to hear of anyone who has found a failure of this product. :detective:
> 
> :::waiting patiently:::



My shot went right over your head!

I was just ragging CS over his long reply that (as usual) needed a translator.:laughing:


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## Insomnia (Jan 15, 2012)

I always put a retrofit box with a blank cover if I have one of those situations. At least the connections will be accessible. 


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## Fabulous (Nov 7, 2012)

Last month, boss used 2 wirenuts in the wall on a 240v circuit!


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Fabulous said:


> Last month, boss used 2 wirenuts in the wall on a 240v circuit!


And how did that make you feel?


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

I've had to crawl under 2 mobile homes to find those POS's have failed. I will NOT use them. Especially in a wall.


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

A Little Short said:


> My shot went right over your head!
> 
> I was just ragging CS over his long reply that (as usual) needed a translator.:laughing:



 Yep, guess so. But in my defense, I've noticed that when you engage with CS you have to stay focused. inch:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

A Little Short said:


> My shot went right over your head!
> 
> I was just ragging CS over his long reply that (as usual) needed a translator.:laughing:



Line forms to the rear Shorty, chicken translators available .....:thumbsup: ~CS~


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

99cents said:


> Here's where you make splices:
> 
> 1) In junction boxes in inconspicuous places like a closet or behind doors.
> 2) In recessed lighting JB's or in a separate JB above a recessed light.
> ...


 
My wife keeps asking why I added so many receptacles! LOL


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Too bad no one makes an old work box cover that could both allow access but be mudded over.

Maybe with a magnet to help locate it later.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

sure Retired one

maybe they could install a little 2" Cletis in it to yell when it needs to be found too....:jester: ~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

A Little Short said:


> So if the repair makes the wire too short you just have to add another, along with a piece of NM?


Yes,
I found a piece of rope cut wrapping around a staircase. Two cuts and two kits later, I was on my way. Owner patched the holes


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> sure Retired one
> 
> maybe they could install a little 2" Cletis in it to yell when it needs to be found too....:jester: ~CS~


What is the box fill of a 2" Cletis?:laughing:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Yeah, and HD carries it. I THINK it only says its listed for use in manufactured homes though. Repairs and extensions.
> 
> This thread has been around once or twice before, and several guys here seem to get pretty upset about it. I say as long as its listed and legal, have at it.


Thanks, I actually found the kit at HD, and so far have not had to use it.:thumbsup:


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