# safety



## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

today a customer had a timer that went out. a 2 pole single throw. the clock on it was a 208/277.it was ran by 240v .2 hots 1 ground , no neutral. on my truck all i have is 2 pole single throw and the clock is 120v. do i use the ground for my neutral or go get the correct timer.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

zen said:


> today a customer had a timer that went out. a 2 pole single throw. the clock on it was a 208/277.it was ran by 240v .2 hots 1 ground , no neutral. on my truck all i have is 2 pole single throw and the clock is 120v. do i use the ground for my neutral or go get the correct timer.


do not even THINK about using the ground as a neutral.

Im not joking either.:no:

~Matt


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

zen said:


> go get the correct timer.


That is what you need to do.


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## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

TOOL_5150 said:


> do not even THINK about using the ground as a neutral.
> 
> Im not joking either.:no:
> 
> ~Matt





JohnJ0906 said:


> That is what you need to do.


 
DITTO on both! :thumbsup:


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

zen said:


> today a customer had a timer that went out. a 2 pole single throw. the clock on it was a 208/277.it was ran by 240v .2 hots 1 ground , no neutral. on my truck all i have is 2 pole single throw and the clock is 120v. do i use the ground for my neutral or go get the correct timer.


 
Only a true hack or a sign guy would use the ground to complete the circuit.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

zen said:


> do i use the ground for my neutral or go get the correct timer.


 What kind of answer do you think you are going to get here? You are a hack if you use the ground as a neutral. Go buy the right timer.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

zen said:


> today a customer had a timer that went out. a 2 pole single throw. the clock on it was a 208/277.it was ran by 240v .2 hots 1 ground , no neutral. on my truck all i have is 2 pole single throw and the clock is 120v. do i use the ground for my neutral or go get the correct timer.


That is just asking for trouble man....what were you thinking???


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

zen said:


> .......... do i use the ground for my neutral or go get the correct timer.


...maybe you should sub it out to someone who has a clue


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Don't use the ground. Why would you even ask that? Thats how you get people killed.

Go get the right timer or rewire the circuit to 120.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

Celtic said:


> ...maybe you should sub it out to someone who has a clue


 mabye the next time i ask a question cause im trying to learn something ,,mind your own buisness because im not asking you.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

this service call is for a sub so itll end up being a freebie. so what i have is a very long run to get a neutral back to the panel. im wondering what my most correct option is. 1 take the ground on the circut and make it a neutral in the panel and at the time clock, then find the nearest ground and run that to the time clock for the 220 circut.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

This is crazy. You must be a troll to suggest this as a solution. Run a new circuit. An entirely new circuit. Don't just run a single conductor, unless it's in conduit. And if it is then keep the ground as it is and use the new conductor as the neutral. Think McFly think.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

After reading you original post a second time, the clock (a new one?) is 120 volts? If so then you already have the correct number of conductors. Just rewire it in the panel to send out 120 instead of 240 and tape the old hot wire3 that you remove off of the breaker white as your new neutral.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

zen said:


> do i use the ground for my neutral or go get the correct timer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YOU don't get to make that decision.:no:
YOU post a question - it's gets answered....whether or not you "approve" of the answer is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that is obvious you are OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE here:




zen said:


> this service call is for a sub so itll end up being a freebie. so what i have is a very long run to get a neutral back to the panel. im wondering what my most correct option is. 1 take the ground on the circut and make it a neutral in the panel and at the time clock, then find the nearest ground and run that to the time clock for the 220 circut.


You are embarrassing yourself :whistling2:


....but don't stop on my account ~ I'll just enjoy the show


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

zen said:


> this service call is for a sub so itll end up being a freebie. so what i have is a very long run to get a neutral back to the panel. im wondering what my most correct option is. 1 take the ground on the circut and make it a neutral in the panel and at the time clock, then find the nearest ground and run that to the time clock for the 220 circut.


Have you considered the voltage of the load controlled by the timer?


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## Ray Cyr (Nov 21, 2007)

steelersman said:


> After reading you original post a second time, the clock (a new one?) is 120 volts? If so then you already have the correct number of conductors. Just rewire it in the panel to send out 120 instead of 240 and tape the old hot wire3 that you remove off of the breaker white as your new neutral.


I only have a minute so i don't have time to look up the code reference, but isn't there a minimum size conductor that you can do this with unless it is part of a cable assembly?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Ray Cyr said:


> I only have a minute so i don't have time to look up the code reference, but isn't there a minimum size conductor that you can do this with unless it is part of a cable assembly?


Check 300.3


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

steelersman said:


> After reading you original post a second time, the clock (a new one?) is 120 volts? If so then you already have the correct number of conductors. Just rewire it in the panel to send out 120 instead of 240 and tape the old hot wire3 that you remove off of the breaker white as your new neutral.


 That's what I said.:thumbsup:


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Ray Cyr said:


> I only have a minute so i don't have time to look up the code reference, but isn't there a minimum size conductor that you can do this with unless it is part of a cable assembly?


I would much rather see this done than use the ground for a ccc. I would do it and not give it a second thought.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

steelersman said:


> This is crazy. You must be a troll to suggest this as a solution. Run a new circuit. An entirely new circuit. Don't just run a single conductor, unless it's in conduit. And if it is then keep the ground as it is and use the new conductor as the neutral. Think McFly think.


 yes its all in conduit and its a fairly long way from the panel. basically this was a freebie for a sub and now my boss may have to spend more time and money than its really worth..me posting this was to learn all my alternatives for this scenario and maybe come up with a better idea than the obvious,,,monday ill be either running a neutral from the panel for it or getting a 220 time clock..i do appreciate all the input...the time clock needs to be 220v for the line side because the load is 220v.so i dont thenk i can wire it 110 only


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

this is a intermatic timer double pole single throw.the clock is a 220v and gets its power when the 220 circut is connected to the line side.the new timer has a set screwfor each 110 leg also as well as a neutral set screw. the clock is is powered by one leg of the 220 but needs a neutral,,unfortunatelly there isnt one..


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> That's what I said.:thumbsup:


My bad. I see it now.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

*don't do it*

No, no, no. Don't use the ground for a neut.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

te12co2w said:


> No, no, no. Don't use the ground for a neut.


 well i learned a few things about timers today,1 that the timer its self is easily replaced and so i picked up a 208/277 timer that i can change out with the 120 one..2 that if i use the ground for a neutral if the ground from the timer to the panel gets disconnected somehow it will now have a load on it.not good at all.. so thanx for all the feed back


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

zen said:


> well i learned a few things about timers today,1 that the timer its self is easily replaced and so i picked up a 208/277 timer that i can change out with the 120 one..2 that if i use the ground for a neutral if the ground from the timer to the panel gets disconnected somehow it will now have a load on it.not good at all.. so thanx for all the feed back


if the load is 240 how you gonna use the 120 time clock


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

nolabama said:


> if the load is 240 how you gonna use the 120 time clock


 that was my problem.i needed a neutral.i had a supply house get another timer/clock and changed it out with the 120v clock..2 small allen head screws is all that halds them on


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## thekoolcody (Aug 30, 2008)

te12co2w said:


> No, no, no. Don't use the ground for a neut.


 
Who would use a neutral for a ground?


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

thekoolcody said:


> Who would use a neutral for a ground? [/quot
> 
> Sign guys...


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