# Home Service-100amp to 200 amp



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

HOWE said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I live in NJ and currently have 100amo service. I need to change ny panel box as the current boox deonst have a main shut off. my question is twofold:
> 
> ...


Your profile says electrician, are you one?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

me thinks , NOT


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

I am apprenticing under a licensed electrician and like doing osme of my own research

Thanks,

Howe


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

HOWE said:


> I am apprenticing under a licensed electrician and like doing osme of my own research
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Howe


Did you ask the licensed electrician? The code book has examples of load calcs. You should look at them to help you practice your trade. Two wires under a lug is usually a no no.


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Yes I know but this is what was there when we moved in. Also due ot the double wores only one bus bar is live. 

I will have a look, but in short are you able to assist me based on the info provided?

Thanks

Howe


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

what i see there is wires on 2 different breakers, not a main


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

its definitely two bus bars but it seems that this may not be a breaker panel rather a split bus panel. I shut both 50 mp breakers and there is still power to the main bus bars hence the 50 amp breakers aren't the shutoffs. I need a main shut off as I have a stand alone generator and during power outages I would like to back feed and with no main I can potentially kill a service man working on the power lines. so in short I wish to replace the panel with either 100 amp or 200amp and would like to know your thoughts on this. and is the current wire can handle 200amps or i need to update this?

Thanks,

Howe


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If you're an apprentice, you started yesterday. Don't do this. You will hurt yourself.


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

general question. Can i install a 200amp panel box with 100 amp service and place a 100 amp main disconnect breaker in the panel box for now. When I upgrade I will replace the 100 amp breaker to 200amp?

Thanks,

Howe


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

This is not a DIY site.

You are asking DIY questions -- not apprentice questions.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HOWE, give me your address, I have some free time tomorrow. I will give you a service upgrade for $2,400 plus permit. A portable generator connect normally costs $700, but I will bundle it with the service for $500. Since you are an electrician, I will let you watch and I will give you as many tips and tricks as I can. 33% deposit, sign on the dotted line.


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

wow you guys are rough

True I am when I am not working I am working on updating my house....and the guy I work for doesn't like questions (did me a favor alowing me to join him) that's why I joined...I may sound stupid at times but didn't we all start out with minimal knowledge?

Thanks,

Howe


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Hackwork

I appreciate the offer but if I had the money I would have hired someone already

What would you charge me to show me hoe to do it? I but supplies and I pay y ou a fee to assist?

BTW I live in North Jersey

Thanks,

Howe


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HOWE said:


> wow you guys are rough
> 
> True I am when I am not working I am working on updating my house....and the guy I work for doesn't like questions (did me a favor alowing me to join him) that's why I joined...I may sound stupid at times but didn't we all start out with minimal knowledge?
> 
> ...


HOWE, here is a simple fact: By your questions, it is clear that you are not currently in the position to upgrade your panel. You will be soon, but not now. If you do it now, you will probably make mistakes, possibly dangerous ones.

Worry about changing your panel after you have helped change 10-20 of them with your employer and you find out all the caveats.

Until the, asking questions here is good. So is reading all the old threads.

Right now you should be looking into load calculations and practice doing it on your own house. You should also be looking into conductor ampacity and figure out the size of your service entrance.


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Hackwack.

Would you be interested in letting me apprentice with you?

I am dying to leave my current one as he isn't easy to work for and besides I am not learning much?

Thanks,

Howe


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't need any fulltime help and right now, I need part timers who know what they are doing. At this point in time for my company I don't have time to properly teach anyone.

Anyway, your feeders appear to be #2AL which means 100A. 

I am curious what is connected to each of those 2 50A breakers?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Howe., welcome to the fourm in here.,

Let me get straight to the point.,,

I know you want to change the panel but let us give few points. this is not a easy task due you will have to prepare the plan what to do with changeover.

Accourding the photo you provide that is 100 amp service but however something is not adding up right due look like a jumper wire was added there so I belive someone did bypass it before somehow which that is not safe at all.

Hackwork did make few very good points on this matter and he do know excatlly what to do with it. 

Ya we can be rough sometime but it is for good reason because we did have few not too bright members sneak in and try to get some items answered but you can understand we have safety in our mind and yes you can ask alot of question but the best answer is when you work on the load centers and other items often the answer will be right on your face.

Please try to listen to us. we do not want anyone get hurt at all. 

I am glad you want to become electrician. 

Read alot of our posting related to the question you are asking for.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HOWE said:


> wow you guys are rough
> 
> True I am when I am not working I am working on updating my house....and the guy I work for doesn't like questions (did me a favor alowing me to join him) that's why I joined...*I may sound stupid at times but didn't we all start out with minimal knowledge?*
> 
> ...


This is correct but a smart man should know enough not to try and do work above the knowledge he has.

It's best to realize what you don't know.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

If your employer doesn't like questions, he seems like a horrible boss. Find a better contractor to work for. You seem to think that being an apprentice is one sided. His end of the bargain is to train you into the trade. Yours is to provide cheap labor and plenty of shovel work. I answer apprentices questions as much as possible. Like others have said, this is not a diy site. Read what you type before you post it. I can't read jibberish.


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Frenchlectrician,

Thanks for being honest

Howe


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Cl906um said:


> If your employer doesn't like questions, he seems like a horrible boss. Find a better contractor to work for. You seem to think that being an apprentice is one sided. His end of the bargain is to train you into the trade. Yours is to provide cheap labor and plenty of shovel work. I answer apprentices questions as much as possible. Like others have said, this is not a diy site. Read what you type before you post it. I can't read jibberish.


This bargain you speak of only exists if they both agreed to it. Howe said that the employer was clear up front, so he has nothing to complain about.

There is a difference between an apprentice and a helper. Some people aren't in the position to train others and just want manual labor.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

HOWE said:


> Hackwack.
> 
> Would you be interested in letting me apprentice with you?
> 
> ...


You willing to travel to central nj?
We work pretty much all over and looking for laborer/apprentice

If your not afraid of hard work, you will learn a sh×t ton as we do all kinds of electrical work.

Last week we started parking lot lights and didnt sub out any of the work. Lol
That was fun!

Ripped up 2ft across a street, but at least now i know how the wife feels to have a jackhammer between her legs!
Lol

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

HackWork said:


> This bargain you speak of only exists if they both agreed to it. Howe said that the employer was clear up front, so he has nothing to complain about.
> 
> There is a difference between an apprentice and a helper. Some people aren't in the position to train others and just want manual labor.


Most times you dont ask questions during the job, just do what your told!

Lunch ,after the job... i think most would be happy to answer questions then

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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Hackwork,

Good morning.

It seems that one of the lines (two phase) goes to the subpanel that is on my first floor which (basically) service the whole house. The second one is for a 4 tonnage unit. I am not sure why they are dedicating a two pahse line to a 50 amp breaker to this unit as it states that it needs is 26.5 amps?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HOWE said:


> Hackwork,
> 
> Good morning.
> 
> It seems that one of the lines (two phase) goes to the subpanel that is on my first floor which (basically) service the whole house. The second one is for a 4 tonnage unit. I am not sure why they are dedicating a two pahse line to a 50 amp breaker to this unit as it states that it needs is 26.5 amps?


I see.

And it's not 2 phase. It's single phase 240V.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

HackWork said:


> HOWE, give me your address, I have some free time tomorrow. I will give you a service upgrade for $2,400 plus permit. A portable generator connect normally costs $700, but I will bundle it with the service for $500. Since you are an electrician, I will let you watch and I will give you as many tips and tricks as I can. 33% deposit, sign on the dotted line.


On second thought, this may be your best bet.
See if you can work him on the price but keep in mind the knowledge he will give you is invaluable!
[emoji106] 

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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Hackwork.

Thanks for the response.

But cant I replace the 50 amp to pole breaker with a 30 amp two pole as this would suffice for the ac unit?

Howe


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Trentonmakes.

I know, but i am short on cash (aren't we all) so I do almost everything myself.

BTW do you need an apprentice? my current boss is a bit tough and not learning much?

Thanks,

Howe


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Thanks,

BTW I see your from MI, funny I grew up in Oak Park, MI


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Central Jersey, what town?

What are your hours?

I have a little boy and scheduling is always an issue?

Howe


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Shop is in Hightstown
But like i said we work all over
Rahway, redbank, manalapan, yardley PA, princeton....

We are looking to take someone on....
I never read the rules here so if your interested send a pm, and i'll get you more info


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

"I never read the rules here so if your interested send a pm"

What a pm?

Howe


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Howe., thanks for the words ., 



HOWE said:


> Hackwork,
> 
> Good morning.
> 
> It seems that one of the lines (two phase) goes to the subpanel that is on my first floor which (basically) service the whole house. The second one is for a 4 tonnage unit. I am not sure why they are dedicating a two pahse line to a 50 amp breaker to this unit as it states that it needs is 26.5 amps?


see the answer below. 



HOWE said:


> Hackwork.
> 
> Thanks for the response.
> 
> ...


Howe., for the Air cond breaker I will give you the answer ., it will varies but normally we sized the breaker per nameplate specs on the unit typically on max size and conductor size too.

but I would not go smaller breaker due you say 26.5 amps that is kinda right on borderline for 30 amp breaker due the main issue is starting amps when the compressor kick in that will get ya. 

Note; most compressor starting current useally draw much 4 to 6 X of running amp current. 

If you did study the NEC codes it is very clearly stated in both art 430 and 440 that cover on motors and HVAC equiment. that is pretty clear on that.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HOWE said:


> "I never read the rules here so if your interested send a pm"
> 
> What a pm?
> 
> Howe


PM mean privite message.


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

I see

Thanks,

Howe


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Thanks but that's an hour form my home base...sorry:-( but really appreciate the offer!

Howe


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

I'm all for people learning to do stuff on their own and stepping outside of their comfort zone. Always trying to help someone better themselves, but man, you have no business doing this work yourself.

You see, the panel is the single device that protects every other device that the service feeds. To really oversimplify, the panel IS your safety device. The panel is also one of the few devices in a typical residential electrical system that can easily kill you without much effort on your part. (Live exposed busbars without the deadfront on, arc flash hazard, etc).

There is one single type of call my company always responds to immediately, day or not, regardless of a customer's willingness or ability to pay, and that is "burning smell or sparks coming from the panel."

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors into the electrical trade, but do not attempt this job yourself as you are demonstrating your lack of knowledge of electricity and lack of training to interpret the code book here.

Getting your generator working properly sooner rather than later isn't worth the lives of you, your family, or some unsuspecting lineman.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Howe, where are you located and what company you work for? You can PM it to me if you prefer.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

HOWE said:


> general question. Can i install a 200amp panel box with 100 amp service and place a 100 amp main disconnect breaker in the panel box for now. When I upgrade I will replace the 100 amp breaker to 200amp?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Howe


if you have a 100a service(wires big enough) then you can


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## vallyo323 (Feb 14, 2017)

Why is there a jumper their dude

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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

I wish I knew....


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Okay you win...I wont do it myself

Howe


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

How do I PM on this site?

Howe


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Sam Thalir electric 

I live in Passaic

Not sure how to PM...sorry:-(


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HOWE said:


> How do I PM on this site?
> 
> Howe


very easy.,,

Just click on the member name once or twice then a pop up screen will show up then scroll down to privite message to that person name and go from there.


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Thanks for your help!

Howe


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HOWE said:


> Sam Thalir electric
> 
> I live in Passaic
> 
> Not sure how to PM...sorry:-(


I'm not too far. I work in Clifton often but Passaic is a bit too crime ridden.

Is Sam Thalir electric a real electrical contractor??


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

How did this troll thread get to 3 pages?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

backstay said:


> How did this troll thread get to 3 pages?


Troll threads always have staying power  .


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Troll threads always have staying power  .


Exactly, just look at some of yours there buddy!:jester:


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Yes,

hes located in South Jersey, works solo, a friedn of mine hooked me up. Not ideal but "beggars cant be chossers"...

Howe


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Thanks for the support!


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## HOWE (Dec 1, 2016)

Amazing ain't it


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