# Pigtailing outlets, required or not?



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

My monkey see, monkey do training always said pigtail commercial outlets. But I'm pretty sure you don't really have to do that. Is there any requirement to pigtail commercial receptacles vs just side wiring them? I'm aware of pigtailing neutrals where there is a MWBC present.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> My monkey see, monkey do training always said pigtail commercial outlets. But I'm pretty sure you don't really have to do that. Is there any requirement to pigtail commercial receptacles vs just side wiring them? I'm aware of pigtailing neutrals where there is a MWBC present.






That's the only reason, other than that, it's just good practice.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't feel that it always is a better practice but that's just me. Side screws make a pretty decent connection. Thanks for the heads up on that McClary.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> I don't feel that it always is a better practice but that's just me. Side screws make a pretty decent connection. Thanks for the heads up on that McClary.


 
I agree. I fully trust the sidescrew to make a good connection. :thumbsup:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I either pigtail or loop my wires on commercial work, you'll find less complaints from customers about computers going down over a device change.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

......................


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

william1978 said:


> ......................


 


awwww come on:thumbsup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I either pigtail or loop my wires on commercial work, you'll find less complaints from customers about computers going down over a device change.


 

So you're changing devices hot


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> So you're changing devices hot


I often do depending on the situation. Shoot me.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> So you're changing devices hot


I always work hot...only sometimes with the old rhw clothe I shut it down.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> [/color][/size]
> 
> 
> 
> That's the only reason, other than that, it's just good practice.


 

Sorry McC, I have to disagree there.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

we do up here....it a code thing...in the event said device fails, then the items downstream are not disrupted..........yes, good practice, and nothing to do with working hot.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Sorry McC, I have to disagree there.


 

Got a code reference?


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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

My inspector said I have to pigtail because he said the side wire straps on a 15 a receptical or switch arn't rated for passing on 20 amp downstream. I gave him a funny look and said OK:001_huh:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

den said:


> My inspector said I have to pigtail because he said the side wire straps on a 15 a receptical or switch arn't rated for passing on 20 amp downstream. I gave him a funny look and said OK:001_huh:


 
The feed thru portion of all 15 amp receptacles is rated for 20 amps.


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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The feed thru portion of all 15 amp receptacles is rated for 20 amps.


 thats what I thought but I never tried to verify it


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The feed thru portion of all 15 amp receptacles is rated for 20 amps.


hell it says that right on the box, does it not?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> hell it says that right on the box, does it not?


 

Yep:thumbup::laughing:


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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> hell it says that right on the box, does it not?


 I had to go to the shop and look. I have some [email protected] tr and non tr and a few gfi's and none of them state anywhere on the box or on the recep itself about having a 20 a pass thru rating that I can find ( in english any way) I even got out the magnifying glass to read all the small print. It wasnt an issue to me as I pigtail any way, Now I am going to have to check with 480 to get the real story!!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

den said:


> I had to go to the shop and look. I have some [email protected] tr and non tr and a few gfi's and none of them state anywhere on the box or on the recep itself about having a 20 a pass thru rating that I can find ( in english any way) I even got out the magnifying glass to read all the small print. It wasnt an issue to me as I pigtail any way, Now I am going to have to check with 480 to get the real story!!


Purty obvious to my feeble peepers.








​


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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

That looks like a 20 a to me. I was in reference to a 15 a recepticle being rated to pass 20 a thru it if it was not pigtailed. I don't see that as a rating on anything I have got. It is a non issue to me but that is what my inspector told me. would this be in the white book?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

den said:


> My inspector said I have to pigtail because he said the side wire straps on a 15 a receptical or switch arn't rated for passing on 20 amp downstream. I gave him a funny look and said OK:001_huh:


Was this a gumball machine inspector or an electrical inspector? 

Don't tell me. He is a municipal inspector and does ALL the trades, right?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

den said:


> That looks like a 20 a to me. I was in reference to a 15 a recepticle being rated to pass 20 a thru it if it was not pigtailed. I don't see that as a rating on anything I have got. It is a non issue to me but that is what my inspector told me. would this be in the white book?



Looks like a 15a recep in my pix.


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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

He is our state inspector for this co. I just never gave it any thought that a 15 a recep could or couldn't pass 20 a if side post wired and not pigtailed? I just don't see it listed that way on any receps I got now that this came up


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

No need for investigation. 
Just look at NEC Table 210.21(B)(3)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> No need for investigation.
> Just look at NEC Table 210.21(B)(3)



Neither the table nor the article address pigtailing.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

........................


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

den said:


> That looks like a 20 a to me. I was in reference to a 15 a recepticle being rated to pass 20 a thru it if it was not pigtailed. I don't see that as a rating on anything I have got. It is a non issue to me but that is what my inspector told me. would this be in the white book?


pretty sure the 20 A ones all have T slots.....at least all the ones I have ever used do.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Neither the table nor the article address pigtailing.


Sorry, I was referring to this:


den said:


> My inspector said I have to pigtail because he said the side wire straps on a 15 a receptical or switch arn't rated for passing on 20 amp downstream. I gave him a funny look and said OK:001_huh:





den said:


> thats what I thought but I never tried to verify it


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Neither the table nor the article address pigtailing.



Exactly the point I would imagine.


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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

Sorry if I didn't post right. Been on nyquill all day and trying not to cough up a lung. I meant that I didn't agree with what the inspector said as far as a 15 a rec being on a 20 a circuit and not capable of feeding 20 a thru it but I didnot find anything on what 15a recep that I have and looked at as to what they are listed for on feeding thru. just that they were listed for 15 a. I pigtail everything anyway. just got "fog head" today


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## fondini (Dec 22, 2009)

300.13.b for multi-wire, we do all this way as a general practice:thumbsup:


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## stackappartment (Apr 4, 2010)

We had a inspector tell us we needed the last receptical on all 20 amp circuits had to be a 20 amp because that's were all the power flowed through before it returned.:001_huh: The same one told us to put ground rods in for a pool bonding and all tales on ground rods must be in the earth so they didn't spark in the air.:laughing:


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## nicholas (Aug 5, 2010)

den said:


> My inspector said I have to pigtail because he said the side wire straps on a 15 a receptical or switch arn't rated for passing on 20 amp downstream. I gave him a funny look and said OK:001_huh:


iam having a hard time understanding that - you feed a light switch with #12 and you are using a 15 amp sw and he wants you to pig tail the sw to #12 wire with a #14, first of all i dont think the code lets you do that and second if you can then you need to change the breaker to 15amp at the panel box....right or wrong


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nicholas said:


> iam having a hard time understanding that - you feed a light switch with #12 and you are using a 15 amp sw and he wants you to pig tail the sw to #12 wire with a #14, first of all i dont think the code lets you do that



If the circuit on a 20a breaker, it doesn't.



nicholas said:


> and second if you can then you need to change the breaker to 15amp at the panel box....right or wrong


Correct. You must protect the circuit with an OCPD sized to the lowest-ampacity conductor.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> If the circuit on a 20a breaker, it doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. You must protect the circuit with an OCPD sized to the lowest-ampacity conductor.


 Thats right:thumbsup:


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

nicholas said:


> iam having a hard time understanding that - you feed a light switch with #12 and you are using a 15 amp sw and he wants you to pig tail the sw to #12 wire with a #14, first of all i dont think the code lets you do that and second if you can then you need to change the breaker to 15amp at the panel box....right or wrong


What he's saying is that his Inspector is saying that the devices aren't rated to feed through 20A so by pigtailing the splice you're not relying on the device to carry on the circuit. Nothing was said about splicing #14 into #12. You can't fuse a 20A circuit at 20A if theres #14 in it, like you said you would have to drop down to a 15A OCPD because as 480 said you have to size to the lowest ampacity conductor. I personally pigtail all my splices unless I'm told otherwise, if that's the case then I don't. It's just my personal preference.


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## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

An E-Mail to a manufacturer's engineering Dept. usually gets these "questions" answered in pretty short order. Why bother arguing with these idiots when you can wave an "official" answer in front of them?

As an aside, have you ever taken apart a 15 AMP receptacle looked at the contacts? Just about all of them have the contact for the "flat" blade present and the only difference winds up being the front plastic piece that either doesn't have a T slot, or does - the metal stamping is exactly the same in both types.

_"We had a inspector tell us we needed the last receptical on all 20 amp circuits had to be a 20 amp because that's were all the power flowed through before it returned." _

I'd have asked if we could just do away with the receptacle and wire nut the hot and noodle together to make sure things worked right if nothing was plugged into the end receptacle.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Why all the fuss? Why not just pigtail?

It doesn't take that long and like BC said, if one recep fails...

And like Mc said... good practice.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Why all the fuss? Why not just pigtail?
> 
> It doesn't take that long and like BC said, if one recep fails...
> 
> And like Mc said... good practice.


Says you.

Some say why waste time pigtailing.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

stackappartment said:


> We had a inspector tell us we needed the last receptical on all 20 amp circuits had to be a 20 amp because that's were all the power flowed through before it returned.:001_huh: The same one told us to put ground rods in for a pool bonding and all tales on ground rods must be in the earth so they didn't spark in the air.:laughing:


 I bet he believes that electrons leak out of outlets too if not taped.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Says you.
> 
> Some say why waste time pigtailing.


Makes the finish a lot faster and easy.:thumbsup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Makes the finish a lot faster and easy.:thumbsup:


Makes the rough slower and harder. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Makes the finish a lot faster and easy.:thumbsup:


Hooking up 5 wires to a duplex takes more time than hooking 3 wires to a duplex.

It's also easier to push a duplex into the box and get it straight when you're only fighting 3 wires as opposed to 5.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Ground up or ground down? :laughing:

It's just personal choice, if i have time on the rough I will pigtail, of time is short I do not.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Pigtail*

I live in Belleville Il ,just across the river from St louie. Building codes here are some of the strictest I seen.I have wired Tv & radio transmitters, Asphalt, Cement Plants, Plastic Plants.Big box stores all over the country. Mostly Comm Ind work.Ive done app 120 Full house rewires, Very little New residential work. In Belleville All work MUST be pigtailed, Only #12 romex can be used.romex cannot be ran through parallel through joists in air ducts It must be in Emt.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

reddog552 said:


> .......In Belleville All work MUST be pigtailed, Only #12 romex can be used.romex cannot be ran through parallel through joists in air ducts It must be in Emt.


Now are those legally-adopted rules, or just something the inspector pulls out of his arse because that's the way he likes to see it?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Now are those legally-adopted rules, or just something the inspector pulls out of his arse because that's the way he likes to see it?



Ewwwwwwwww Bad visual.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Belleville Code*

Its on the books.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> pretty sure the 20 A ones all have T slots.....at least all the ones I have ever used do.


receptacles rated for 20A loads are, but that is to prevent a large device requiring a 20A from being plugged into a 15A branch.

20A T'd outlets are never permitted on a 15A branch. 

On the other hand, it's a very common practice to use a 20A circuit in a kitchen and use a string of 15A outlets. If two devices, each at 10A are plugged into two outlets on the ends, any outlet daisy chained upstream of them will be "passing through" 20A.


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