# drilling bus bar



## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

Have you done any research as to why there are no mounting holes? I would say figure out if you can mount something there. I can't tell how everything is mounted there but it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
I should also ask.... WHY?


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

HawkShock said:


> Have you done any research as to why there are no mounting holes? I would say figure out if you can mount something there. I can't tell how everything is mounted there but it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
> I should also ask.... WHY?


I haven't done any research, I've just been told to make it work. The problem is, drilling through REALLY seems like a bad idea to me! The entire switch gear has to be replaced because it's so corroded, but the customer wants us to install these breakers now, so they cab get their new equipment up and running... the breaker I was given has different mounting brackets than the existing breakers, which is why the layout is different. I just don't feel comfortable drilling through it, so I'm trying to get some input on it.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Why risk it sometimes its easier to walk....


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

Sparky J said:


> Why risk it sometimes its easier to walk....


That's what I'm thinking.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't see any problem with it. I've done it before and won't lose any sleep over it.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

define mount a breaker. Are you trying to alter the switch gears breaker configuration by making a 'homemade' mounting bracket., than drilling the bus for the breaker 'fingers'?


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> I don't see any problem with it. I've done it before and won't lose any sleep over it.


You're not worried that if there's ever any kind of fault, somebody is coming after you? Would'nt this void the ul listing?


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

360max said:


> define mount a breaker. Are you trying to alter the switch gears breaker configuration by making a 'homemade' mounting bracket., than drilling the bus for the breaker 'fingers'?


Not altering the configuration. The breaker is the same model as the rest of the existing ones. For some reason, we couldn't get the same brackets/fingers as what's on the existing breakers, and the spacing on the holes on the new brackets is double the old ones. So if I put a bolt through the top hole I can put it through the hole on the bus, but when I try to put a bolt through the bottom hole it doesn't go all the way through the bus.
I hope I'm explaining myself well...


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

............


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Just order the correct mounting kit for the breaker


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

Zog said:


> Just order the correct mounting kit for the breaker


I don't know why, but apparently we couldn't get the same mounting brackets. We had to get the breakers from someplace that refurbished breakers, and they said these are the new mounting brackets for it.


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## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

It will last 30 years.


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

buddhakii said:


> It will last 30 years.


And then self-implode!? :laughing:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

gotshokd666 said:


> Not altering the configuration. The breaker is the same model as the rest of the existing ones. For some reason, we couldn't get the same brackets/fingers as what's on the existing breakers, and the spacing on the holes on the new brackets is double the old ones. So if I put a bolt through the top hole I can put it through the hole on the bus, but when I try to put a bolt through the bottom hole it doesn't go all the way through the bus.
> I hope I'm explaining myself well...


can you move some of the existing breakers around to get the pattern you need?


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> can you move some of the existing breakers around to get the pattern you need?


No. But even if we can, it wouldn't help. The existing brackets get mounted to two holes in a row, one directly below the other. The new brackets use every other hole.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

drill that ****er


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> drill that ****er


It seems like that's what's going to happen. I wanted to see if there would be any problem with that, but it seems like most guys here are saying to just go through with it...


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## FlatRateGator (Feb 13, 2013)

There's alot of what-if's and maybes, but I'd drill it. A "bus tap" is a tried and true method to squeeze a few more years out of old switchgear. Just don't be stupid and you'll be fine.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

gotshokd666 said:


> I don't know why, but apparently we couldn't get the same mounting brackets. We had to get the breakers from someplace that refurbished breakers, and they said these are the new mounting brackets for it.


What is the breaker type and panel type?


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

Zog said:


> What is the breaker type and panel type?


I don't remember offhand, and I'm not sure when I'll be back there.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Did you talk to the manufacturer? What did they say?


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Did you talk to the manufacturer? What did they say?


I haven't spoken to them yet, but now I've been told to hold off. Seems like the customer might go ahead with replacing the switch gear. Apparently their insurance co said if they don't replace it they lose their coverage... I guess I'll see what happens now.


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

The final decision is in. We will be changing the entire switch gear, thanks anyways for the advice...


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

gotshokd666 said:


> The final decision is in. We will be changing the entire switch gear, thanks anyways for the advice...


Next time you get there, post the breaker/panel type for us please.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

gotshokd666 said:


> The final decision is in. We will be changing the entire switch gear, thanks anyways for the advice...


Replacing the entire switchgear or order a $200 part and they are replacing the gear? Wow.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Zog said:


> Replacing the entire switchgear or order a $200 part and they are replacing the gear? Wow.


Read the third post. And three posts above your last. Looks like they were already on the fence about new gear. This just helped seal the deal


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## mikestew (Apr 18, 2011)

Fwiw I had an engineer instruct me to drill out some plates on a brand new mcc unit. According to him so long as the surface area meets or exceeds the manufacturers specs its a non issue. I'm not sure how I feel about that but as an apprentice it's not my call to make.


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## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

Wirenuting said:


> Next time you get there, post the breaker/panel type for us please.


Not sure when that's going to be, but I will def try to remember. 



Zog said:


> Replacing the entire switchgear or order a $200 part and they are replacing the gear? Wow.


It has to be replaced regardless, it was just a question of when.



mikestew said:


> Fwiw I had an engineer instruct me to drill out some plates on a brand new mcc unit. According to him so long as the surface area meets or exceeds the manufacturers specs its a non issue. I'm not sure how I feel about that but as an apprentice it's not my call to make.


I wasn't really thrilled about it, but I'll be the first to admit it's an uninformed feeling. It's very possible there's nothing wrong with it, it just seems like a bad idea to me which is why I was looking for input...


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

As long as the bus can handle and is rated for the additional load it can be done. Because the gear is being replaced I would've ordered two new fused discos rated for whatever the breakers 
were and bolted them right to the side of that cabinet and temp that service out.

As for the apprentice... I cannot stress this enough please test and retest that bus every time you step away. Make sure the Forman or Journeyman you're working under shows you the switch that feeds that gear is locked out and tagged. It's also nice to learn how to drill and tap properly and to do bigger work like switch gear as an apprentice .


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## Whatsmyname789 (Jul 1, 2009)

We have come into issues like this before and we hired an UL inspector to approve it and he put something in writing which we gave the local inspector.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

gotshokd666 said:


> Does anybody know if there's any legal ramifications to drilling holes in a bus of switch gear? The bus looks like 3 plates stacked, and only the first plate has a hole in it. If I need to mount a breaker, can I drill a hole through the rest of it?
> There are some holes that go all the way through, but the layout won't work with the mounting brackets of the breaker...
> 
> View attachment 24402
> ...


Well you dont drill any switchboard new or old ever its the manufactures problem call them for the fix .


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

gotshokd666 said:


> You're not worried that if there's ever any kind of fault, somebody is coming after you? Would'nt this void the ul listing?


 
Why not contact the manufacturer and ask them?


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Did you talk to the manufacturer? What did they say?


 
Ha ha you already said what I did........ To obvious of an answer so everbody ignored :blink:


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## Travelboysteve (Aug 13, 2013)

This issue seems to have been resolved, but for future reference, there are quite a few questions left unasked / answered.
I have drilled for buss taps, and, not been able to drill for them.
from my point of view:
A few assumptions have been made:

---if it has to remain a listed assembly, then a field call is out of the question
---Along with listing, drilling holes or modifying a factory listed assembly HAS to be confirmed with the factory specs and a letter submitted by the factory to retain the UL listing of the assembly being altered. Remember, bussing and all other parts and material is sized, spaced and installed per MFR specs and design.
---if you drill holes, will it compromise the integrity of the buss? What size holes and tap?
---What is the Max allowable breaker configuration and sub load size? (I've seen guys butcher panel boards to get a bigger breaker to fit, a lot of resi guys have seen, or worse, done themselves, installed the wrong type or size of breaker jammed in a panel, you know who you are)

Just some things to consider when we, as professionals, take matters into our own hands, we need to remember that everything we install is, or at least should be considered a listed assembly.
Common sense only goes so far,......

now hand me my sledge hammer, I need to fix this dog leg,....


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

piperunner said:


> Well you dont drill any switchboard new or old ever its the manufactures problem call them for the fix .


Not everybody does only new construction with a set of prints and spec's. Sometimes us small guys have to think for themselves. Weird huh.


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## sparky976 (Feb 2, 2013)

What would you do if the manufacturer is no longer in business? No one around to contact for authorization to modify a Ul/CSA approved panel board? Maybe get an electrical engineer to signoff?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> Not everybody does only new construction with a set of prints and spec's. Sometimes us small guys have to think for themselves. Weird huh.


Don't blame him, 40 years of being an assembly line robot has taken away his ability to think.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well BBQ your a jerk as always anyone who drills into a buss bar in a switchboard is a idiot . LOL as a robot construction electrician remember we pipe it wire it terminate it do all the controls for you idiots who come in years later to add 1/2 " pipe for a sump pump or do a remodel on a new office .

Anyone in service is a waste of air just sitting around waiting for a bulb to burn out thats really tuff tech work or sniff burnt control circuits wow were impressed .

As far as your electrical time in the trade and what you have done you must be dreaming i forgot more than you have ever seen . 

What company electrical is out of business so call a engineer .Name one company who has gear out there thats not around anymore .

I have worked service 3 years General Electric plant ME union then US NAVY NIMITZ 4 years electricians mate plus 36 plus years field electrician you have not seen electrical BBQ you just stick with your code book and box stores . Or go back to the carneys and repair the cotton candy stand .

You dont drill a buss bar unless factory approved it get a life . :thumbup:


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Not everybody does only new construction with a set of prints and spec's. Sometimes us small guys have to think for themselves. Weird huh.


Yes there tons of companys that do want a list just look up the contractors in ECM mag theres a list for you . 

Well whats the difference small guys think more do you think a small company thinks more your guys are smarter because you dont follow a rule or a plan. Do you follow the code book lets look at the code iam fairly certain your breaking a rule by drilling UL LISTING rule .

Your work is so high tech because you dont have a print wow . 

Are your for real .


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