# 2/0 vs. 3/0 cu in a 2" conduit



## DriveGuru (Jul 29, 2012)

Hmmm... I thought you could use 2/0 to the masthead, but had to be 3/0 entering the panel??? Am I mistaken? I'm not a wireman by trade, I'm a troubleshooter.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

A couple of weeks ago, me and two other guys pulled 3 - 4/0, 1 - 2/0 and a #6 in a 2 inch. 

It was from a gutter, 20' up a wall, 90 over about 8' to a LB, about 100' to another LB, about 30' to a 90 then 10' down into a switchgear. 

It nearly killed all 3 or us........

Seriously, LBs and big wire are a royal bear. 

I would use the smallest wire I could with LBs. 

Even 2 - 2/0s, and a neutral in a 2" LB will be difficult. And back-to-back LBs are much worse.


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## Huggyd (Aug 24, 2014)

DriveGuru I am the same as you a Troubleshooter.... 
But I talked to the inspector yesterday and asked him about it, I assume he looked it up and he told me that 2/0 was good from the meter base to the panel. I looked it up in the 2009 CEC and yeah there is that footnote about 2/0 good for 200amp residential sevice.... I was looking at the tables and going from that its 3/0, I wonder about how they came to that conclusion but its in the book and the inspector he fine with it. I am just wondering about the pull.


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## DriveGuru (Jul 29, 2012)

I recently helped a buddy with his house, (he supplied the materials) 2-3/0 and a 2/0 neutral in a 1 1/2" with 1 90 and 2LLs. Don't do it,lmao. Use 2 1/2 ", I felt like somebody beat me up the next day,lmao.


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## Huggyd (Aug 24, 2014)

@micromind - sounds like you did a he*l of a pull.

I don't get around to doing this all that often so I talk to people around me who do, they tend to say the same as people on the here on the site. "its going to suck but its do-able" 
Really I'm just going for the easiest rout as possible I have myself + 2 friends + my old man, who is an Master Electrician but has been out of the game for a long while, he telling me to put LB and LR in place of the 90deg, he is telling me that will be easier, I keep telling him... "hmmm...nope I don't think so" but I can't tell him anything so I am going it my way and hope for the best.

@DriveGuru - you fit that in a 1.5" conduit, wow! 

I was thinking of going 2.5" but pick up the 2", I have to make that work unless It worth keeping the 3/0 and sitching out the conduit for the 2.5" but this is running along the side of the house above ground so hmm... 

Really is the 2/0 vs. 3/0 going to make that much of differece in the pull that its worth picking up the 2/0 ....


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

I am also a troubleshooter in an industrial plant. I like overkill and hate dimming lights. I would use the 3/0.

I have done some residential and wire pulling. One thing that helps pulling a lot is having someone feeding the wire as hard as they can. On lbs it helps if you pull the wire in the right direction. Pulling the wire out the back is harder for the guy pulling but it makes the last bit pull down in the lb easier. Bend the wire were it will lay in the lb before you pull it all the way in. It makes pulling it in easier.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Huggyd said:


> Do my own panel up grade from 100amp to 200amp and I went out and got my wire 8m (26') of #3/0cu, then I got to reading from postes here that opps the stupid little footnote in the code book says I can get away with using 2/0  my bad on that one..... but I am pulling it in a 2" conduit with 2 90deg bends which leads to the LB going into the house the a 90deg (or a another LB not sure what is a good idea) on the inside of the house that ends at the panel. Doing the pull with the 2 - #3/0 + my #3 Nutral.
> I was just thinking.... I can pick up more wire and this time go with the 2/0 as the code book says, which I hope will make it any easier time pulling. Then just use the 3/0 for a different job... Think its worth picking up the 2/0 or is it not going to make that much of a differance on the pull....
> I do have my Yellow77 set to go.


So you guys can use a #3 neutral in a 200 amp service?:blink:

Also I use 4/0 AL in 2" and it's a bitch in those puny LB's..:no:


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Black Dog said:


> Also I use 4/0 AL in 2" and it's a bitch in those puny LB's..:no:


Use a mougle or re down a 3 inch lb.......:thumbup:


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## Huggyd (Aug 24, 2014)

*Black Dog - Does this help? *We have a #6 for a neutral for a 100amp so double to 200amp and double the neutral to #3 thats how I kind of think of it.... I ran it by the inspector and he gave the ok... so, I guess it works.

*4-024 Size of neutral conductor *​​​​(see Appendix B)​
(1) The neutral conductor shall have sufficient ampacity to carry the unbalanced load.
(2) The maximum unbalanced load shall be the maximum connected load between the neutral and any one
ungrounded conductor as determined by Section 8 but subject to the following:
(a) there shall be no reduction in the size of the neutral for that portion of the load that consists of
(i) electric-discharge lighting; or
(ii) non-linear loads supplied from a 3-phase, 4-wire system; and
(b) except as required otherwise by Item (a), a demand factor of 70% shall be permitted to be applied
to that portion of the unbalanced load in excess of 200 A.
(3) The size of a service neutral shall be not smaller than the size of a neutral selected in accordance with
Subrule (1) and shall​(a) be not smaller than No. 10 AWG copper or No. 8 AWG aluminum; and 
(b) be sized not smaller than a grounded conductor as required by Rule 10-204(2), except in service
entrance cable or where the service conductors are No. 10 AWG copper or No. 8 AWG aluminum.
(4) In determining the ampacity of an uninsulated neutral conductor run in a raceway, it shall be considered
to be insulated with insulation having a temperature rating not higher than that of the adjacent circuit​conductors.


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## Huggyd (Aug 24, 2014)

Jhellwig said:


> Use a mougle or re down a 3 inch lb.......:thumbup:


 
what do you mean by use a mougle??


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

micromind said:


> A couple of weeks ago, me and two other guys pulled 3 - 4/0, 1 - 2/0 and a #6 in a 2 inch.
> 
> It was from a gutter, 20' up a wall, 90 over about 8' to a LB, about 100' to another LB, about 30' to a 90 then 10' down into a switchgear.
> 
> ...


Don't take this the wrong way, because I know that you know way more than me. was that really a 2" LB (I'm hoping you left out the part that they
oversized the LB. otherwise tsk tsk.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/crousehinds/resources/pdfs/instruction-sheets/if964.pdf


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Huggyd said:


> what do you mean by use a mougle??


They are special LB's -- mogul conduit bodies. do a search


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

wildleg said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, because I know that you know way more than me. was that really a 2" LB (I'm hoping you left out the part that they
> oversized the LB. otherwise tsk tsk.
> 
> http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/crousehinds/resources/pdfs/instruction-sheets/if964.pdf


Yes, they were 2" LBs. It was an existing installation that originally had 3 - 2/0s that fed a 3Ø 3 wire panel at a roof truss manufacturing plant. 

They added another gang saw and wanted some 120 stuff so we removed the existing and pulled in the 4/0s and neutral. 

I very likely would have replaced the LBs with cans but they were in the middle of several other pipes with LBs. 

I use LBs all the time for control wire, small stuff pulls right in. But big wire is a royal pain.


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## Huggyd (Aug 24, 2014)

mogul conduit bodies - nice.
I did a google search and look for images but did see any made from pvc, is there such a animal?


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## Huggyd (Aug 24, 2014)

"I use LBs all the time for control wire, small stuff pulls right in. But big wire is a royal pain. "

*So I'm better off with a manufactured 90 and lube it up (yellow77) and just pull.*


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Huggyd said:


> Do my own panel up grade from 100amp to 200amp and I went out and got my wire 8m (26') of #3/0cu, then I got to reading from postes here that opps the stupid little footnote in the code book says I can get away with using 2/0  my bad on that one..... but I am pulling it in a 2" conduit with 2 90deg bends which leads to the LB going into the house the a 90deg (or a another LB not sure what is a good idea) on the inside of the house that ends at the panel. Doing the pull with the 2 - #3/0 + my #3 Nutral.
> I was just thinking.... I can pick up more wire and this time go with the 2/0 as the code book says, which I hope will make it any easier time pulling. Then just use the 3/0 for a different job... Think its worth picking up the 2/0 or is it not going to make that much of a differance on the pull....
> I do have my Yellow77 set to go.


You only mentioned copper.
I would use 4/0-4/0-#2-#6 Aluminum.
What do you have in your house that would even come close to 200 Amps?
Most all electric houses I see run about 60 or 70 amps max.


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm used to using copper all the time. But for services like this, like others have said - use aluminum. Pull one at a time when pulling that last little bit through the LB.

Go use aluminum, and once you're done come back and thank us.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Huggyd said:


> mogul conduit bodies - nice.
> I did a google search and look for images but did see any made from pvc, is there such a animal?


I have never seen a PVC one or ever needed one. I was joking about using a mougle. They are twice as long as a regular lb and weigh a ton. It would look funny in a house.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I squeezed two 250 mcm, one 2/0 and one #2 in 2" pvc over the weekend.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I've used a mallet to get big wire in a trade sized (but improperly sized) LB - but if you're running the pipe just make sure you read the inside of the LB so it's sized correctly.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

wildleg said:


> I've used a mallet to get big wire in a trade sized (but improperly sized) LB - but if you're running the pipe just make sure you read the inside of the LB so it's sized correctly.


We had a 350 run just blow out a couple weeks ago. It was a feed for a chiller and even though the LB was "properly" sized 3 years ago, the installer beat it with a mallet to get it in, the run was twisted. 
You can guess what happened next. 

For me it was an "I told ya so" moment.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Shockdoc said:


> I squeezed two 250 mcm, one 2/0 and one #2 in 2" pvc over the weekend.


Was a hammer involved?


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Lb condulets are marked with max wire size, have a different fill than the conduit, and have their own chart for bending radius. Whoever claims to slam such and such huge conductors in a Lb is a hack and moron. Just saying... Real electricians use the right size and oversize. Have had troubles with reducing bushings. They seem to be smaller than the conduit when dealing in rigid metal. Have upsized whole conduit run at times. Three hours wasted with four to five guys on a pull can buy a lot of next size up conduit.


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