# Adding a single gang switch next to an existing switch



## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

Is it considered "Hacky" to add a separate single gang switch next to an existing single gang switch? I usually cut out the existing box and add a 2 gang old work box, but sometimes I run into trouble with short and tightly stapled wires, especially when there is 3 cables coming into the box (top and bottom). Add to the breaking plaster walls and sometimes it becomes a project I wish I never started.

What's your opinion on this? Just cut in a separate box?


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## paul_arc (Mar 31, 2009)

When ever I see something like that done I think it looks ugly and not professional. another option to get the box out of the wall is just cut/ break the box up to get the wires out, then you can pull the staples out and cut it open to a 2g


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

welcome 1900, you do lots of re-model ??? howzbiz????


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

paul d. said:


> welcome 1900, you do lots of re-model ??? howzbiz????


Not at all, I do mostly commercial work. It's nicer in commercial where you usually have a carpenter to patch the hole, a taper to spackle it, and a painter to paint it :thumbup::thumbup:

I've been doing some residential work on the weekends for my cousin who is a small EC and I'm running into situations which require a different etiquette.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Sometimes, there might be no other way if the wires are too short. I use smart boxes in this situation because I find old work boxes too small to fill the opening of a nail on. Doesn't get you around short wires. How about a stack switch?


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

*Different animals*

Weekly commercial, residential on the weekends. You are on a learning curve. Doing the weekend work will give you the hands on in all the trades.It keeps you at the top of the skill level. Glad to hear there's work to be had.Breaking the single gang is the way to go.Side by side single plates look like a mistake.Be extra careful if in a older home with plaster walls.Now that could turn into a nightmare.Good luck:thumbsup:


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

the worst is when its the old metal boxes buried behind plaster . the kind that have nailed-on side brackets that are difficult to reach.by BTW , i use a sawzall to cut the nails on a regular nail-in box, makes it much easier for me.just make sure to use short blade or you will be doing some patchwork.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't have an issue with side by side single gang boxes. I keep them separated by at least three inches.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

I would rather do a small patch myself then have to SGs side by side, I think it looks home owner.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

99% of all switch wires enter from the top of the box. And in old work, there tends to be only one cable, because the switch tap is usually made in a ceiling box. Newer residential is a little different, but most wires still enter from the top. Sometimes, moving the box up a little can help with short wires. You may have to patch a bit, but that's not bad, and a jumbo plate can be a big help too.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I most always modify,looks much nicer. or a stack switch if no dimmers are needed.
It depends on all the variables,depending on the level of destruction that may result,I revert to the home owner with the options.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I never do anything that doesn't look "stock"

It takes more patience but, even in a worst case scenario, drywall/plaster is pretty easy to patch.


It also gives you more room to reach in the wall and fish cables when you change out the box.


A screwdriver will generall work well to remove staples and give more room to work. I have, on occaision, poked a smal hole in the drywall, close to the staple and worked a flat blade long screwdriver to remove it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I always change the box.. it looks like a HO did his own wiring when one box is next to another. Use a Dremel to cut the plaster and go slow..you will feel better about the job looking at one box instead of two :thumbup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> 99% of all switch wires enter from the top of the box.


99% of all statistics are false.


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> 99% of all statistics are false.


85.43875% of statistics are made up on the spot.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

1900 said:


> 85.43875% of statistics are made up on the spot.


13.56125% of statistics are made up somewhere else.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

MF Dagger said:


> 13.56125% of statistics are made up somewhere else.


Yep. 53% of all people know that.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

1900 said:


> 85.43875% of statistics are made up on the spot.


Accurate to 5 decimal places... Wow! The sampling must be huge!


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> Yep. 53% of all people know that.


I don't. I just made it up.


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> How about a stack switch?


How about when one of the switches needs to be a 3-way, do they have 3-way stacks? I've seen stacked dimmers, they were in a decora style plate instead of the receptacle plate that most stacked toggle switches use, ugh.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

1900 said:


> How about when one of the switches needs to be a 3-way, do they have 3-way stacks? I've seen stacked dimmers, they were in a decora style plate instead of the receptacle plate that most stacked toggle switches use, ugh.


Yeah, stacked switches come in SP/SP, 3W/SP, and 3W/3W. Standard or Decora. The decora also comes in SP/SP/SP.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I find it a whole lot easier to fish the wire into the box with the box removed. If the wire jacket is short then I will strip a piece of jacket off some nm cable and slide it over. If you have old BX well, that's another story...

Trying to put stack switches, esp 2- 3ways makes it almost a no-go because of wire fill in those old boxes.

Push come to shove I would install a box above the other one and not beside it.


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> 13.56125% of statistics are made up somewhere else.


Averaged over the population of practically any town in the world then, the average person has less than 4 limbs

quote..*.A politician uses statistics in the same way as a tramp uses a streetlight; more for support than for the illumination which it provides
* :whistling2:


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

Trimix-leccy said:


> Averaged over the population of practically any town in the world then, the average person has less than 4 limbs
> 
> quote..*.A politician uses statistics in the same way as a tramp uses a streetlight; more for support than for the illumination which it provides
> * :whistling2:


Every single person who has even drank water... ... has died!!!!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

1900 said:


> Every single person who has even drank water... ... has died!!!!


No not yet but they will eventually. Does that prove that drinking water leads to death? :laughing:


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> No not yet but they will eventually. Does that prove that drinking water leads to death? :laughing:


100% of the people who have posted in this thread... ...will die!!!!!!!


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I find it a whole lot easier to fish the wire into the box with the box removed. If the wire jacket is short then I will strip a piece of jacket off some nm cable and slide it over. If you have old BX well, that's another story...
> 
> Trying to put stack switches, esp 2- 3ways makes it almost a no-go because of wire fill in those old boxes.
> 
> Push come to shove I would install a box above the other one and not beside it.


 Thanks for the post. Removing the box is sometimes the biggest problem when it's plastered in on an old home.

Fill?? What's that? :whistling2::whistling2:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> No not yet but they will eventually. Does that prove that drinking water leads to death? :laughing:


Yeah and spit causes cancer, but only swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time..So we are in the clear?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

brian john said:


> Yeah and spit causes cancer, but only swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time..So we are in the clear?


actually, it hasn't been proven that spit causes cancer. but scientists have discovered a *link *between eating, drinking, sleeping, spitting and cancer.


(everytime I hear the work link in the bull**** news "statistics" I want to throw up)


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

wildleg said:


> actually, it hasn't been proven that spit causes cancer. but scientists have discovered a *link *between eating, drinking, sleeping, spitting and cancer.
> 
> 
> (everytime I hear the work link in the bull**** news "statistics" I want to throw up)


Everyone who watches the news throws up, true statistic.


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Yeah, stacked switches come in SP/SP, 3W/SP, and 3W/3W. Standard or Decora. The decora also comes in SP/SP/SP.


I took a look at Leviton and P&S devices, they both had what you mentioned. Before I commit, do you know of any other good brand that has this configuration? I would prefer one where the switches toggled vertically like a normal switch instead of horizontally like these combinations switches.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd like to say that the P&S stack switch we used recently had vertical switches. It was a sp/sp though and Decora, if the style matters.


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## 1900 (May 4, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I'd like to say that the P&S stack switch we used recently had vertical switches. It was a sp/sp though and Decora, if the style matters.


You are right, and they make it in sp/3-way so it's exactly what I am looking for.

Lowes stocks P&S?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

1900 said:


> You are right, and they make it in sp/3-way so it's exactly what I am looking for.
> 
> Lowes stocks P&S?


 I don't think the big bleu will stock that in there the last time I did look for it and only have hubbel / coupper devices there.

Merci,Marc


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Smart boxes are the best thing to come onto the scene in years. They are perfect for this application. And whoever mentioned using a sawzall to cut the nails, that's what I do too, except for plaster walls because that's entirely another deal.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Speaking of plaster wall especally if have wire mesh behind that will really raise the fun factor pretty high.

What I useally do is take a rotozip or cutoff wheel one of the two and with rotozip you will need at least two diffrent cutting blades one for mansory type and second one for metal so it will cut the wire mesh pretty neat.

For the standard nail on box just take a sawall and cut it the nails off and it will useally pop out without much issue but somecase it will be pain in ase with it { it do happend from time to time } 


Merci,Marc


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Christ. Just sledge the whole stud bay out, do the work, and call the patcher... and MerryMaids.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

A standard nail-on will come off with a screwdriver. Pry it off at the stud while pushing it back on the opposite side. You have to alternate where you pry: top and bottom. Usually it is necessary to drop the box into the stub bay, but who really cares?

Same with ancient metal boxes. The ones where the nails are actually inside the box. A few swift whacks with a beater screwdriver on those nails, and they are out, then push the box into the bay.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Do they make a rotozip bit for metal? I've got a couple of different ones for tile and plaster, but haven't seen one of those yet.


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