# Maintenance electricians vs Construction?



## Bbsound

They are 2 different kinds of jobs, and there are lots of different types of "construction" electricians. 

I started out working in maintenence of a hospital for 8 years, then went into construction for the past 13 years. 
The hospital electricians have to deal with many different types of systems and much more paperwork, and politics. It is a very different attitude than construction. 
I can not say if a maintenance electrician or a construction electrician is any better than one or another. I know very good ones and some idiots in both sides.


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## NSC

I've done both, and construction is harder because you're always working. Maintenece, you have to wait until something breaks and then you work for 5-30 mins to fix it.

I got paid the same at both jobs. Most employers will try and get away with paying you the legal bare minimum anyway so I don't think the salary will differ from construction to maintenence.


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## henderson14

NSC said:


> I've done both, and construction is harder because you're always working. Maintenece, you have to wait until something breaks and then you work for 5-30 mins to fix it.
> 
> I got paid the same at both jobs. Most employers will try and get away with paying you the legal bare minimum anyway so I don't think the salary will differ from construction to maintenence.



I'm not talking about "harder" as in physically harder. I was referring to mentally harder.


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## Big John

You'll get a lot more chances to build stuff as a construction electrician. You'll get a lot more chances to repair stuff as a maintenance electrician.

Other than that, there are so many different types of each it's almost impossible to say what your day would be like. In either field you can push yourself and excel or coast and stagnate.

-John


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## jimmy21

Most maintenance electricians don't know much unless they have done construction beforehand. Imo its because construction electricians have worked with many more people getting to see how many different people did things. Maintenance guys have only worked around a few people. 

I remember one maintenance guy, he know how to install motors no problem but installing complete systems he was totally lost. He couldn't figure out how to bend a 90 with a kick, so he just stuck a piece of sealtight flex in the middle of the run. He said "it works." That seems to be the attitude of most maintenance guys. Thy hack it in and are proud because "it works"


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## ponyboy

currently i am doing both. the plant i'm at consists of several buildings and there is constant expansion taking place. all the while if something breaks down during the day then its off i go to take care of it. i enjoy the construction part of it much more. they tell me what they're bringing in, i plan the layout, order all the equipment, pipe it, pull it, turn it on. as far as the maintenance side of it there are a couple guys there that can diagnose and fix almost all issues over the phone because they know the place so well (and have been there way too long). personally i try to let these guys take the trouble calls but we all have the same job title


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## drumnut08

henderson14 said:


> I don't hear a lot about maintenance electricians. Are they better electricians that construction? It seems like you need to know more because of all the troubleshooting and different equipment you work on. In construction you just run pipe and pull wire. But it seems like construction makes more money.


I've done both and as a maintenance electrician , you'll learn how to get things going again , permanent or by putting a band aid on it until the company you work for hires a contractor to do the work . In house guys , for the most part , reset breakers , but when a real problem arises , the company hires outside help . Trust me , you'll learn more as a construction electrician actually seeing how things go in ! Good luck !


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## Big John

jimmy21 said:


> Most maintenance electricians don't know much unless they have done construction beforehand. Imo its because construction electricians have worked with many more people getting to see how many different people did things. Maintenance guys have only worked around a few people....


 I agree, this is a risk. In a smaller facility you get a limited amount of equipment, and a limited amount of people to learn from. It doesn't lend itself to teaching different methods and materials. And if someone shows you something wrong, especially if you're green, you have no way of knowing, or of learning the correct way. 

You can also find this hazard in a small construction shop, but you at least have the opportunity to be exposed to different installation methods in the field.

-John


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## dronai

The maintenance Electricians I worked with at the airport were pretty good with electro/mechanical, automation, controls,conveyors, plcs, vfd's, etc. They didn't know or care about the installation process, or NEC codes.

Construction after 50 is hard on the body !


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## nolabama

I have done both. Maint. is harder on the brain for sure. I don't think small building Maint would be difficult tho.


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## dthurmond

I do both now . I work in a factory and do electrical hvac and Maintenance. I also run my on electrical contracting business . The jobs are like apples and oranges to me . At the factory I work on motor controls plcs all types of motors . The side business is mostly residential but some light commercial . I put in security cameras with dvr and emergency phones . You will never know everthing because it may be electrical but electrical has so many sub groups .


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## ponyboy

dronai said:


> Construction after 50 is hard on the body !


thats what im thinking. i see these guys fly in for start ups and what not and i think thats what i should be doing when im 50. i love construction but i dont see a lot of older guys doing it except the lifers.


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## ampman66

I worked as a construction electrician for 20 years before switching to maintenance when the construction market took a hit due to the recession.
It's a different animal, to be sure.
I don't know if it's harder, or if it just seems that way because it's something that the construction guy isn't entirely familar with.
I agree that guys who have spent their entire careers working maintenance don't know much about proper installation, and that makes sense because it's not their focus, just like construction guys aren't entirely familar with maintenance.
Having experience in installation is an advantage when working maintenance because part of maintenance is tearing out old stuff and installing new, and installation experience will make you more valuable as an employee.


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## denny3992

Im at that point in my career now, 18 yrs constr experience and looking at getting into maint!

I def see the constr as a benefit to my next step and cant wait till i make the leap. My body cant take 25 more yrs of constr!


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## backstay

I worked maintenance for 18 years then went out on my own. Some guys working in plant did only construction( over 40 electricians). I was a troubleshooter. Worlds apart, I learned construction, you can't teach troubleshooting to some people.


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## iplaymydrums

I've done both, for the same company. Unfortunately, the maintenance was basically "re-construction" so I didn't learn anything and all the info. I studied, as an apprentice, and got high grades testing never got used. But on the bright side all the OT I got helped me pay cash for a home. It seems like in the union "suction " rules. If you have it , you'll always have work , even if/when you ffff up.


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## Hippie

I've met some maintenance electricians that were extremely smart and knowledgeable, and most of them started in construction. Having that background makes learning maintenance much easier, if you know how its built its easier to troubleshoot. I've also worked around a lot of so called maintenance electricians with no trade experience outside of one or two facilities that would have a hard time changing a light bulb at their own house. 

Personally I did maintenance for a year and that was all I could take. I couldn't stand the boredom of sitting around waiting for calls or the drudgery of routine PM's. And a little piece of your soul dies every time you rig something up with tie wraps and SO cord.

I don't want to still be crawling thru attics at 60 but I hope I never have to take another maintenance job, it may sound like a good deal but its definitely not compatible with everyone


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## nolabama

My coworker is soulless if what you say about SO is true.


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## iplaymydrums

"""" i love construction but i dont see a lot of older guys doing it except the lifers."""
Lifers don't get too dirty and almost always have truck and almost never get a layoff....WTF...and also take furloughs,,,,instead of layoffs,,,,welcome to brotherhood,,


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## rdvd

I know that some building maintenance companies offer maintenance electricians work across a network of properties. Typically these services are offered on an on-demand basis. This model may become more frequent as business are trying to save money on building maintenance costs.


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## bobelectric

iplaymydrums said:


> """" i love construction but i dont see a lot of older guys doing it except the lifers."""
> Lifers don't get too dirty and almost always have truck and almost never get a layoff....WTF...and also take furloughs,,,,instead of layoffs,,,,welcome to brotherhood,,


 True,but maybe a thank you from the contractor for years of making deadlines and keeping the jobs running smoothly,making them money.


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## maintenance man

I do both now. I work for a factory as an electrical mechainal tech and I work for a guy o the side doing construction. However my day job requires me to do way more than just electrical work. I love what I do. I work on everything from plc's to presses. I'm in the process of building a cabinet with an AB micrologix 1400 and 3 powerflex 4 drives. But the last few days have been spent working on an 800 ton press that spun its crank bearing and today I spent pulling a clutch/brake off of a 75 ton press. Tomorrow I will continue on with the cabinet.


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## maintenance man

I forgot to tell you the best part of my job.....it's non-union!


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## eejack

maintenance man said:


> I forgot to tell you the best part of my job.....it's non-union!


Good for you. Glad to see you are well enough off that you want to leave pay and benefits on the table.


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## maintenance man

eejack said:


> Good for you. Glad to see you are well enough off that you want to leave pay and benefits on the table.


I get paid above the area average and I make sure that I and my family get the benefits we need with the money I make. I take personal accountability to make sure are needs are met. I do not need to pay to keep my job nor do I need to pay a union to give me the things I'm capable of getting for myself. I work so I can live not live to work.


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## henderson14

eejack said:


> Good for you. Glad to see you are well enough off that you want to leave pay and benefits on the table.


Ya, but I bet he has vacation and holiday pay. Probably more benefits than we have.


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## eejack

maintenance man said:


> I get paid above the area average and I make sure that I and my family get the benefits we need with the money I make. I take personal accountability to make sure are needs are met. I do not need to pay to keep my job nor do I need to pay a union to give me the things I'm capable of getting for myself. I work so I can live not live to work.


So you get no benefits from the company you work for, you have no protection from that company and you are forced to hunt for and handle all of your own insurances, pension, annuities etc.

Instead of putting out a pittance in union dues and gaining all the protections and purchasing power of a collection of folks for benefits, you have to spend your own time and effort.

Good for you, glad you are well off enough to leave pay and benefits on the table and have the time to go make your own arrangements.


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## eejack

henderson14 said:


> Ya, but I bet he has vacation and holiday pay. Probably more benefits than we have.


Absolutely - I have neither of those. Well, I mean I have a vacation fund that gets money put into it every week ( 8% of the gross ) but I never get paid for an hour that I do not work.


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## Loose Neutral

I just look at dues as a business expense. Man you get a lot of bang for the buck.


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## Loose Neutral

henderson14 said:


> Ya, but I bet he has vacation and holiday pay. Probably more benefits than we have.


Our vacation is 4% of gross.


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## icefalkon

eejack said:


> ( 8% of the gross ) but I never get paid for an hour that I do not work.


Ours is 11% here in NYC. We get checks for all our paid holidays. Once furlough's are over...coming soon...we go back to paid vacations...My 26yrs gets me 4 weeks. 

The amount of our dues vs the amount of our retirement, medical, dental benefits is a ridiculously small portion. I pay $400 a year for what's ranked as one of the best dental plans in the country, for the base ability to retire with $6500/month (not including whats left in my B Fund and annuity), and medical for LIFE for myself and my spouse. How the hell can you even justify saying that the $400/year isn't worth THAT??


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## RGH

icefalkon said:


> Ours is 11% here in NYC. We get checks for all our paid holidays. Once furlough's are over...coming soon...we go back to paid vacations...My 26yrs gets me 4 weeks.
> 
> The amount of our dues vs the amount of our retirement, medical, dental benefits is a ridiculously small portion. I pay $400 a year for what's ranked as one of the best dental plans in the country, for the base ability to retire with $6500/month (not including whats left in my B Fund and annuity), and medical for LIFE for myself and my spouse. How the hell can you even justify saying that the $400/year isn't worth THAT??


...some guys just think we are getting robbed blind....my family medical is $28.10/wk.....w/ZERO co-pays...dental 100% paid by company..5 weeks vac/8 personal/8 hoildays/pension $9.45/hr paid by company...RX/eye glasses/disability ins./$100k life insurance/...and few other things....I am IBT....$13 a week to Hoffa...my god the humanity...:whistling2:


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## RGH

....oh braces for your kids...those baxtars...my local only paid for half the $5 grand it cost me.....(2 kids) my god....:whistling2:...robbery...:laughing:


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## nolabama

11 day paid vacation coming up.


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## Lone Crapshooter

I have worked with several maintenance electricians and I can tell you from experience that the most of them were not finish electricians. The ones that come out of construction seeme to do allot better on the finish side. The ones that go through a in plant training program do not have a clue about what conduit should look like nor do they care . You will also see working maintenance grandaddy did it like this back in 1942 and that is the way we are going to it today.The maintenance mentality is keep it running we dont care what it looks like.
LC


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## icefalkon

LC gets a thanks for pulling it back to the thread's topic! LOL


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## maintenance man

Well I'll take it right back off topic for just a moment. I get paid vacation, I get 3 weeks to use as I please, and this year we got 13 paid holidays due to the days that the holiday falls on. Our insurance is around 30 a week for a family of 5 that includes vision, dental and life on all of my family. I also put 5% a week into 401K. But My wife works at the local hospital and her insurance is better, not by much but better so we use hers. However we have set up an account for medical expences and we also have other coverage that we have perchased on our own. In todays situation....(Obama care) you have to make sure you cover your back side. My point is I choose to use/buy or not use/buy insurance offered by my employer. There are plenty of benifets that I can use/buy but if I dont want too I dont have too. I get to choose what is best for me and my family. 


Now back on topic. I agree that there are plenty of guys, even around this plant, that dont care what there conduit looks like as long as the wire goes through it. But what is good and bad for industries rather than constructuion is the huge gray area that the NEC has when dealing with industry. We invite OSHA into the plant twice a year and when they come in we know what they are looking for. Last time it was racking. They over looked the vertical ran sealtight and the unanchored vertical EMT....crap that has been like that for 20+ years. We have presses that the safety is up-to-date only because we needed to fix some part of that system that broke. And others that sill operate off of ice cube relays. Our boss sugjest that we do our work hand in hand with the NEC but if it adds cost or will take too much time it is offten over looked. IMO working in new construction gives you more pride in your work.


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## glen1971

Both maintenace and construction have their pros and cons... I don't think you can properly maintain something til you have an understanding on how it was built.. I also think that you can become better at construction, if you've had to maintain it afterwards.. Like maybe adding a union to a run might make it easier to pull a motor, knowing how to install conduits and cable tray can make your job look better if you have add one later, etc...


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## Rollie73

maintenance man said:


> I forgot to tell you the ABSOLUTELY WORST part of my job.....it's non-union!


Fixed


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## jimmy21

I don't know how you guys have such good coverage. No copay? Ours here is 500 deductible per person. Then its 80/20 coverege to 10k. That means the max you can pay is 2500 per year per person. My wife having our baby cost 5k. 5k was a fraction but still a good chunk of money.


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## nolabama

20 copayment. 35 for a specialist.


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## Loose Neutral

Loose Neutral said:


> Our vacation is 4% of gross.


Woops. Our working dues are around 4% and vacation is 10%.


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## Loose Neutral

maintenance man said:


> Well I'll take it right back off topic for just a moment. I get paid vacation, I get 3 weeks to use as I please, and this year we got 13 paid holidays due to the days that the holiday falls on. Our insurance is around 30 a week for a family of 5 that includes vision, dental and life on all of my family. I also put 5% a week into 401K. But My wife works at the local hospital and her insurance is better, not by much but better so we use hers. However we have set up an account for medical expences and we also have other coverage that we have perchased on our own. In todays situation....(Obama care) you have to make sure you cover your back side. My point is I choose to use/buy or not use/buy insurance offered by my employer. There are plenty of benifets that I can use/buy but if I dont want too I dont have too. I get to choose what is best for me and my family.
> 
> 
> Now back on topic. I agree that there are plenty of guys, even around this plant, that dont care what there conduit looks like as long as the wire goes through it. But what is good and bad for industries rather than constructuion is the huge gray area that the NEC has when dealing with industry. We invite OSHA into the plant twice a year and when they come in we know what they are looking for. Last time it was racking. They over looked the vertical ran sealtight and the unanchored vertical EMT....crap that has been like that for 20+ years. We have presses that the safety is up-to-date only because we needed to fix some part of that system that broke. And others that sill operate off of ice cube relays. Our boss sugjest that we do our work hand in hand with the NEC but if it adds cost or will take too much time it is offten over looked. IMO working in new construction gives you more pride in your work.


Never had osha do an electrical inspection.


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## nolabama

Loose Neutral said:


> Never had osha do an electrical inspection.


They can. And they have some loose requirements.


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## Loose Neutral

Bastards.


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## Big John

icefalkon said:


> ...I pay $400 a year for what's ranked as one of the best dental plans in the country, for the base ability to retire with $6500/month....


 :icon_eek: Has someone checked out the solvency of that plan...? A man that worked for 40 years would over-run his contributions within the first 3 years of retirement.


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## icefalkon

Big John said:


> :icon_eek: Has someone checked out the solvency of that plan...? A man that worked for 40 years would over-run his contributions within the first 3 years of retirement.


We have over 30,000 members in LU3. A-Construction JW's union dues are $400/yr...other Divisions dues are more as they have less members. We are also the bank of the IBEW with assets that would boggle the mind. So our total retirement is not in any trouble at all. Part of the benefit of the great planning by Harry Van Arsdale Jr. was to purchase huge tracts of land in NYC. We own approximately 5 square miles in one Borough, a huge estate in the Hamptons, various properties around the city. All of this generates income to the Local and part of those monies go towards our retirement benefit as we "all" own a piece of the pie.


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## Loose Neutral

I'm sure there are more dollar's involved, just contractor paid.


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## icefalkon

Yes.


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## maintenance man

Loose Neutral said:


> Never had osha do an electrical inspection.


Not in the 5 years I've been there. I know some of the more bone head obvious stuff has been there for a lot longer than that. I just make a point to correct what is wrong with the machine when I'm working on it.


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## icefalkon

OSHA only has the right to site you on hazardous electrical violations, not on Code Compliance or installation issues. We have to point that out to them constantly on our project. They have a role and their role is not to determine what is or is not installed as per NFPA 70 + the NYC Amendments.


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## RGH

In a nut shell it all depends where (who) you work for as to what you will be doing....construction is very seasonal...ups and downs for lots of men..if you work in a plant/factory etc it is steady and usually there is ot....some plants are extraordinary some are dumps...constuction you can be a road warrier or a home guy...I have done both....and I like a steady check and am an ot guy...top ot guys at my place this year....well into the $30k.....over base....not bad....there are road guys that probably banged out a hundo as well....do a little of all if you can...good luck and keep learning and be safe..:thumbsup:...test..touch..test for life.


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## retiredsparktech

maintenance man said:


> I forgot to tell you the best part of my job.....it's non-union!


 You should have left that statement out, especially for a new member.
I was never a radical union member, but working in a non-union firm, left a bad impression on me in my first years of working.


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## maintenance man

retiredsparktech said:


> You should have left that statement out, especially for a new member.
> I was never a radical union member, but working in a non-union firm, left a bad impression on me in my first years of working.


 

Well, I have had the same thing happen to me but it was the other way around. I worked in an other factory that was non-union for just shy of 5 years. They made valves and gears for the big 3. When the auto workers went on strike it effected us all! And for what... so they can get more out of there retirement, thus causing their products price to go up and the quality to go down. At one point our plant manager showed us what they were fighting for during a plant wide meeting. It showed that for every 1 worker that was getting paid to produce a product there were 7 retired workers getting benefits and were not producing any more. Bottom line, its thinking like this that has gotten us were we are as a country today. Everyone has a hand out wanting more for less. The unions HAD a purpose in the first half of the 20th century, but not necessary today. Their too big and have been dug in too deep to just get rid of, I get that. I have read what you union guys are talking about. You love your union out of one side of your mouth and b!tch about it out of the other. Its all about money, who does the work, who get laid off and who you family is. Why not have the right guy for the job, not the one that's next in line. And god for bid, some contractor or company hires out side of the local *** there will be a picket line out side, broken windows, and now no way to get there supplies. Look at Michigan right now.


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## 360max

iplaymydrums said:


> """" i love construction but i dont see a lot of older guys doing it except the lifers."""
> Lifers don't get too dirty and almost always have truck and almost never get a layoff....WTF...and also take furloughs,,,,instead of layoffs,,,,welcome to brotherhood,,


could you define 'lifers' for me?


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## denny3992

maintenance man said:


> Well, I have had the same thing happen to me but it was the other way around. I worked in an other factory that was non-union for just shy of 5 years. They made valves and gears for the big 3. When the auto workers went on strike it effected us all! And for what... so they can get more out of there retirement, thus causing their products price to go up and the quality to go down. At one point our plant manager showed us what they were fighting for during a plant wide meeting. It showed that for every 1 worker that was getting paid to produce a product there were 7 retired workers getting benefits and were not producing any more. Bottom line, its thinking like this that has gotten us were we are as a country today. Everyone has a hand out wanting more for less. The unions HAD a purpose in the first half of the 20th century, but not necessary today. Their too big and have been dug in too deep to just get rid of, I get that. I have read what you union guys are talking about. You love your union out of one side of your mouth and b!tch about it out of the other. Its all about money, who does the work, who get laid off and who you family is. Why not have the right guy for the job, not the one that's next in line. And god for bid, some contractor or company hires out side of the local *** there will be a picket line out side, broken windows, and now no way to get there supplies. Look at Michigan right now.


But u would work union if it meant making the wage and having gr8 healthcare for life? Im not union ( but will be afscme in 3 mnths) why did i take the job for the same pay as i was making.... Job security, pension, better healthcare.........thats what the union has to offer!!!


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## maintenance man

denny3992 said:


> But u would work union if it meant making the wage and having gr8 healthcare for life? Im not union ( but will be afscme in 3 mnths) why did i take the job for the same pay as i was making.... Job security, pension, better healthcare.........thats what the union has to offer!!!


Let me know how that's going for ya when your laid off or the company that has your union contract has to move over sea's because it can't afford to pay the overhead. For the record I have good health care and the job I have Is In the aftermarket oil, air, fuel and water filters. We have a great product and good hard working employees..... for the most part. They have to do there job or they will not have one. We don't pay for job security, we provide it by the work we do.


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## denny3992

maintenance man said:


> Let me know how that's going for ya when your laid off or the company that has your union contract has to move over sea's because it can't afford to pay the overhead. For the record I have good health care and the job I have Is In the aftermarket oil, air, fuel and water filters. We have a great product and good hard working employees..... for the most part. They have to do there job or they will not have one. We don't pay for job security, we provide it by the work we do.


I agree but u didnt answer the question....


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## John Valdes

drumnut08 said:


> I've done both and as a maintenance electrician , you'll learn how to get things going again , permanent or by putting a band aid on it until the company you work for hires a contractor to do the work . In house guys , for the most part , reset breakers , but when a real problem arises , the company hires outside help . Trust me , you'll learn more as a construction electrician actually seeing how things go in ! Good luck !


I have a great deal of experience working in plants. I was fortunate to have 10 plus years construction experience before I moved to "maintenance" as some call factory work.
In my case, they never called in anyone. That's what they hired me to do.
I could be running pipe one day and troubleshooting controls the next.
We did everything ourselves and never hired any outside contractors with the exception of building contractors. Roofing, HVAC and building additions.
This was true in every plant I have worked in.

I learned how to bend conduit, pull wire, rough in and trim out buildings in construction.
I learned the rest as a factory electrician/ electronics tech.
I would have never met a VFD or PLC had I stayed in construction.
The construction work was the prerequisite for the real learning. It layed the ground work for the technical end of our business.



maintenance man said:


> I forgot to tell you the best part of my job.....it's non-union!


And you brag about it? :whistling2:



RGH said:


> ....oh braces for your kids...those baxtars...my local only paid for half the $5 grand it cost me.....(2 kids) my god....:whistling2:...robbery...:laughing:


I had dental insurance, but it did not cover orthodontic services. I had three daughters in braces all at the same time.
It is rare to see any insurance that covers orthodontic services. 



jimmy21 said:


> I don't know how you guys have such good coverage. No copay? Ours here is 500 deductible per person. Then its 80/20 coverege to 10k. That means the max you can pay is 2500 per year per person. My wife having our baby cost 5k. 5k was a fraction but still a good chunk of money.


Could be bull s**t. They throw out these numbers to make their argument stronger.
I have had some great insurance in the past. But there was always some out of pocket expenses. 
I do remember when my oldest daughter was born in 1976. I was working at the RR. I think the only cost I had was the postage to send in the claim forms.



retiredsparktech said:


> You should have left that statement out, especially for a new member.
> I was never a radical union member, but working in a non-union firm, left a bad impression on me in my first years of working.


I started in the union and then moved to SC which ended my union service.
While I liked my jobs here, it was the attitude towards unions that made me want to go back to the union.
The thinking, especially here in the south was extremely negative towards unions. Negative, with nothing to substantiate their stance.
This thinking is passed down from generation to generation. Like a good cornbread recipe. :laughing:


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## di11igaf

maintenance man said:


> Let me know how that's going for ya when your laid off or the company that has your union contract has to move over sea's because it can't afford to pay the overhead. For the record I have good health care and the job I have Is In the aftermarket oil, air, fuel and water filters. We have a great product and good hard working employees..... for the most part. They have to do there job or they will not have one. We don't pay for job security, we provide it by the work we do.


Please, another one of these guys. All our country's problems are all because of the unions, even though less than 12% of the entire US workforce is unionized. If a union business goes out of business its always the unions fault.. What about when non-union businesses close up shop, or move over seas(like they do every single day)? Unions fault?
You honestly believe a company paying an employee at most 10-15% higher because they are union makes the company go overseas? Get real. Really think about this.
Union business(factory, plant whatever-just generalizing here)
Wages for union employee paid by employer's
Hourly-20$ 
Benefits/insurance-6$
Total around 26$/hour

Non-union
Hourly-17$
Benefits/insurance-2$
Total around 19$/hour

Same worker in China 
1.50-2.00$/hour literally. 
These guys make less in an day than either US worker makes in an hour.
You actually believe keeping a business non-union to keep wages down 10-20% can compete with a worker in another country making 20$ a day?


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## piperunner

Well i see lots of electricians who dont have a understanding of the fundamentals of electric how it works the trade schools they attend even today are not good enough IMO thats union or non union . We teach them to just start out to bend a little conduit to get a little bit of theory and then 4 years your out the door ready to take on the world . Ive been in the trade since 1969 General electric plant electrician 2 years then US NAVY EM 4 years and have been in construction since its not what you do its who you are and what you learn .
There not going to teach you more than what it takes to do the job you have to continue to educate your self go to school at nite or read a book theres more info on this computer you could not learn in your life time and i dont mean a electricians forum .
I wish i had a computer 40 years ago i would not have been in this trade so pick what you feel is your bag dont let anyone tell you its better here or there i ended up in construction because i had to support my kids and i made a living . Iam telling you construction its a ruff road if your young you will never understand what iam telling you . Trust me on this one


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## maintenance man

denny3992 said:


> I agree but u didnt answer the question....


No. I want the freedom to buy what I want with my money(benefits/healthcare) and k don't want to be told I have to agree or disagree with what an union tells me. So if I were ever faced with the option of joining a union I would pass.


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## RIVETER

henderson14 said:


> I don't hear a lot about maintenance electricians. Are they better electricians that construction? It seems like you need to know more because of all the troubleshooting and different equipment you work on. In construction you just run pipe and pull wire. But it seems like construction makes more money.


There are many types of work in the industry; I've done both construction and maintenance. I made fair money in construction but fairly good money in the other. I never got over the pride I took in a good "pipe" job. The newer electricians coming up in both areas seem to be very good with the newer technologies. I just hope they don't blow it with poor working attitudes and constant cell phone activities on the job.


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## Southeast Power

maintenance man said:


> No. I want the freedom to buy what I want with my money(benefits/healthcare) and k don't want to be told I have to agree or disagree with what an union tells me. So if I were ever faced with the option of joining a union I would pass.


This is the difference between union and non-union. 
BTW, Union is the upper pic.


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## Hippie

jrannis said:


> This is the difference between union and non-union.
> BTW, Union is the upper pic.


Lol. Probably was more accurate a few years ago though, soon enough we're all going to be riding rusty bicycles to jobs with homemade ladders tied to our backs if the economy keeps sucking the way it is.


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## 0volt

piperunner said:


> Well i see lots of electricians who dont have a understanding of the fundamentals of electric how it works the trade schools they attend even today are not good enough IMO thats union or non union . We teach them to just start out to bend a little conduit to get a little bit of theory and then 4 years your out the door ready to take on the world . Ive been in the trade since 1969 General electric plant electrician 2 years then US NAVY EM 4 years and have been in construction since its not what you do its who you are and what you learn .
> There not going to teach you more than what it takes to do the job you have to continue to educate your self go to school at nite or read a book theres more info on this computer you could not learn in your life time and i dont mean a electricians forum .
> I wish i had a computer 40 years ago i would not have been in this trade so pick what you feel is your bag dont let anyone tell you its better here or there i ended up in construction because i had to support my kids and i made a living . Iam telling you construction its a ruff road if your young you will never understand what iam telling you . Trust me on this one


I completed an IBEW apprenticeship 14 years after you in the Midwest. At this time the region was still industrialized. Demographics played a part in what courses were included in the apprenticeship program. The apprenticeship I completed was 2 semesters of day school 2 days a week at an accredited technical college and the remainder of 4 years was 4 hours 2 days a week after work on our own time.

The course work started with theory, basic electricity and advanced mathematics and progressed to industrial electronics, PLC’s ect. Testing was required on a regular basis and the apprentice had to keep their grades up. Completing the 4-5 year apprenticeship required passing a state approved electrical exam. Notice I said “state approved electrical exam.” This exam was created by the local JATC and was more in-depth and actually harder than the state electrical exam. This was a selling point for this local jurisdiction; our electricians are highly skilled journeyman tradesman above the competition. Apprentices did fail due to not keeping up grades and not passing the final exam.

I check the credentials of the doctor or surgeon; if I were a customer seeking electrical work I would want one who was properly trained and has the skills. Unfortunately look at the shoddy work pictures on this site; unskilled electricians have installed some of these installations and the customers did not know any better. Overall if someone completes an apprenticeship you are going to get a better job; nothing is perfect I realize some hacks slip through. One thing I would like to see throughout the IBEW is that everyone that is classified as Journeyman must have passed and completed an apprenticeship; not just passing the hall test or state exam. Some may have passed a test but lacks of mechanical skills are defiantly noticeable. When the local accepts a new member that has not completed an apprenticeship; I believe it would be a good idea based on this new members skills and experience be placed in an apprenticeship class already in progress that meets his/hers experience level and complete the program to earn the title Journeyman.


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## icefalkon

0volt said:


> I would like to see throughout the IBEW is that everyone that is classified as Journeyman must have passed and completed an apprenticeship; not just passing the hall test or state exam. Some may have passed a test but lacks of mechanical skills are defiantly noticeable. When the local accepts a new member that has not completed an apprenticeship; I believe it would be a good idea based on this new members skills and experience be placed in an apprenticeship class already in progress that meets his/hers experience level and complete the program to earn the title Journeyman.


I'm an NJATC Instructor and every year all the instructors around the country are sent for continuing education out at the National Training Institute in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I also teach at this event. One of the biggest topics we cover is enforcing the already on the books rule that to be classified as and A Rate Inside Wireman...you MUST have completed the Apprenticeship Program.

Our program here in NYC has the kids do a four hour night each of theory and college courses...and upon completion of their 5th Year (NYC has always had a 5yr Apprenticeship)...they take their Craft Certification Exam (A Test) and also receive an Associates Degree in Labor Management. Just about every single IBEW Local has a Craft Certification Exam and yes...in some cases they are much more difficult than a State test. It depends on the jurisdiction. Here...we train installers not owners. That has been the focus of Local 3 for over 100yrs. I don't necessarily agree with it, but in lieu of it...I teach Project Management and Supervision Courses to Journeymen. 

There is a way to check whether a member has gone through the apprenticeship in most locals. We talk about this every freaking year.

In Local 3 it is revealed whether you were accepted in as an open shop member or whether you went through the program in the Group Number. This way a Steward, General Foreman, Owner...knows where you came from. It doesn't tell the HISTORY of the person...just how they got in.


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