# Cat6 drops, how much?



## five.five-six

Runs are all about 100' excluding the patch panel, what's the going rate for cat6 drops in a comercial application? Regonaly, the job is in So Cal.


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## WhitehouseRT

five.five-six said:


> Runs are all about 100' excluding the patch panel, what's the going rate for cat6 drops in a comercial application? Regonaly, the job is in So Cal.


Cat-5 = $300 each
Cat-6 = $400 each


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## Next72969

WhitehouseRT said:


> Cat-5 = $300 each
> Cat-6 = $400 each


300 per run? By me people are losing 100/run bids to the guy bidding 95


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## five.five-six

WhitehouseRT said:


> Cat-5 = $300 each
> Cat-6 = $400 each


I'd be a millionaire

I was thinking $85 for the first drop at each location and $55 for each additional jack at that location...


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## Edrick

$125


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## sbrn33

Five five six, welcome to the world of make believe pricing. They can quote it as this all day but....


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## Wireless

Plenum? Drop ceiling? Existing conduit?


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## wcord

WhitehouseRT said:


> Cat-5 = $300 each
> Cat-6 = $400 each


Cat 6 is usually $300 for the data guy portion, but that's for certified Beldon or AMP.
EC runs the pathway, be it conduit, tray or J hooks. The data guy does the cabling and terminations, and supplies the patch cable.
Depends on how many cables, the pathway will cost $100 or more per drop.


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## wcord

five.five-six said:


> I'd be a millionaire
> 
> I was thinking $85 for the first drop at each location and $55 for each additional jack at that location...


Maybe for residential, Cat 5 with no terminations.


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## mikeh32

a buck a foot, and 25-50 per drop.


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## five.five-six

Wireless said:


> Plenum? Drop ceiling? Existing conduit?


CMR, grid, expandigng office space into the whearehouse steel stud construction.

I am not gong to cert it, but I will test it with a JDSU lanscaper.


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## 10492

five.five-six said:


> I'd be a millionaire
> 
> I was thinking $85 for the first drop at each location and $55 for each additional jack at that location...


FWIW.

We are doing a networking fit out now.

113 home runs.
Price for Cat 6 plenum= $300/1000'
We used Caddy beam clamps, 3/8" allthread, with double J hook brackets for the main trunk, and snap on J hooks for the branches.
Cat 6 jacks are $4/piece.


56 office/drywall locations, and 57 cubicals.

When you consider jacks, plates, surface mount boxes, cable tray in the IT room and punch downs, and labor to install,my cost is @ $140 per drop.

I charge $225.

Good luck with $80/drop. 

If you've never done it, and think it's as easy as pulling MC, good luck....


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## WhitehouseRT

Dnkldorf said:


> Good luck with $80/drop.
> 
> If you've never done it, and think it's as easy as pulling MC, good luck....


You get what you pay for....!!!!



.


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## five.five-six

I pay $110/k Honeywell CMR (building has ducted returns) and I pay $3.35 for ICC inserts. 

I just bought all the materials for the 24 drops including a 24port cat6 panel $530. that's $21/ drop in materials. 

At $110 for the first drop and $55 for each additional drop +350 for the panel + a few bucks for sleeves, came to $2,145 for 3 days work. I am alright making $500/day.


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## drspec

five.five-six said:


> I pay $110/k Honeywell CMR (building has ducted returns) and I pay $3.35 for ICC inserts.
> 
> I just bought all the materials for the 24 drops including a 24port cat6 panel $530. that's $21/ drop in materials.
> 
> At $110 for the first drop and $55 for each additional drop +350 for the panel + a few bucks for sleeves, came to $2,145 for 3 days work. I am alright making $500/day.


Wow......just wow

That's all I can say


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## five.five-six

drspec said:


> Wow......just wow
> 
> That's all I can say


well, that's helpful.


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## drspec

five.five-six said:


> well, that's helpful.


Do the math man.

You would be working for wages.

There is so much more overhead than just your hourly rate and materials. You'll figure out how much to charge one day.....maybe.


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## 10492

five.five-six said:


> I pay $110/k Honeywell CMR (building has ducted returns) and I pay $3.35 for ICC inserts.
> 
> I just bought all the materials for the 24 drops including a 24port cat6 panel $530. that's $21/ drop in materials.
> 
> At $110 for the first drop and $55 for each additional drop +350 for the panel + a few bucks for sleeves, came to $2,145 for 3 days work. I am alright making $500/day.



24 home runs, 100' each?

MINUMUM 3 boxes. $330 (cheap china crap)
24 jacks at $4 $100
24 plates $50
24 lv Data rings $50
Punch down tool $50
Tester $100-1,000
Panel $350

Minumum, you have a $1000 in materials.

2145 - 1000= $1145

$1145/24 Man hours=$47/hr


Yeah, your making a killing.........

PM me when you've had enough and need to sell your stuff to pay your mortgage.


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## sbrn33

five.five-six said:


> I pay $110/k Honeywell CMR (building has ducted returns) and I pay $3.35 for ICC inserts.
> 
> I just bought all the materials for the 24 drops including a 24port cat6 panel $530. that's $21/ drop in materials.
> 
> At $110 for the first drop and $55 for each additional drop +350 for the panel + a few bucks for sleeves, came to $2,145 for 3 days work. I am alright making $500/day.


Did you test and certify them? without that they are almost useless.


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## five.five-six

Dnkldorf said:


> 24 home runs, 100' each?
> 
> MINUMUM 3 boxes. $330 (cheap china crap)* I pay $110 for Honeywell wire*, turns out the runs were 60-100 feet, I ran a few today so *$220*
> 24 jacks at $4 $100 *$3.35*
> 24 plates $50 *12 2port plates $10.90*
> 24 lv Data rings $50 *4 2 gang rings $9.20*
> Punch down tool $50
> Tester $100-1,000 *I own a tester*
> Panel $350 *ICC MPP02460 $95.00*
> 
> Minumum, you have a $1000 in materials.
> 
> 2145 - 1000= $1145
> 
> $1145/24 Man hours=$47/hr
> 
> 
> Yeah, your making a killing.........
> 
> PM me when you've had enough and need to sell your stuff to pay your mortgage.


What you listed came to $406, but you left out the EMT, bushings, straps and tax, worked out to just under $530 for all the materials, they are in my truck. 


Don't get mad at me because you pay too much for materials, but an electrical wholesale house is not the place to buy structured cabling materials. I spent 4 1/2 hours there today and I am about 1/4- 1/3 done.





> P.O/REF NBR SHIPPED DATE SHIPPED FROM SHIPPED VIA DATE INVOICE NUMBER MCGAW 10/08/13 ORANGE PICK UP 10/08/13
> BT9M04-01
> 
> QTY ORDERED ITEM DESCRIPTION LOT UNIT PRICE AMOUNT
> 2 WG-50922101 23/4PR CAT6+ CMR 1M RLBX WHT I 110.00 220.00
> 1 BF-MP2S LOW VOLTAGE BRK DBL GANG METAL I 2.30 2.30
> 4 TS-JH32W1 2" BTWNG J-HK SZ 32 I 2.60 10.40
> 
> TOTAL MATERIAL
> (.00%) SALES TAX
> FRT
> TOTAL
> 232.70
> 18.03
> .00
> 250.73





> QTY ORDERED ITEM DESCRIPTION LOT UNIT PRICE AMOUNT
> 3 BF-MP2S LOW VOLTAGE BRK DBL GANG METAL I 2.30 6.90
> 
> TOTAL MATERIAL
> (.00%) SALES TAX
> FRT
> TOTAL
> 6.90
> .53
> .00
> 7.43





> MCGAW FINISH QUOTE 100813 BT9N9200
> 11 H2-1078F6WH CAT6 INSERT 8P8C HD WHITE 3.35 36.85
> 11 H2-1078F6BL CAT6 INSERT 8P8C HD BUE 3.35 36.85
> 10 H2-107DI2WH 2-PORT BLANK DECOR INSERT WHT .91 9.10
> 5 H2-107DFDWH * DECOREX DOUBLE GANG FCPLT WH 1.30 6.50
> 1 H2-107DI6WH 6-PORT BLANK DECOR INSERT WHT 1.05 1.05
> 1 H2-MPP02460 CAT6 P-PANEL 24-PORT 8P8C 95.00 95.00
> 1 H2-CMSCMA41 1-RMS 1.75" 1-SIDE HORIZ PANEL 16.00 16.00
> 
> TOTAL MATERIALS 201.35


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## five.five-six

sbrn33 said:


> Did you test and certify them? without that they are almost useless.


CAT6 is pretty much useless anyway, CAT5e is rated for 1gig, CAT6 is rated for 10gig, even _if_ there is a 10gig nic in the building, any equipment that will utilize OC192 bandwidth is going to cost well over 5 figures. Outside of a LEC environment, running CAT6 is like running 1,000mcm to 20 amp convenience receptacles.

1/2 of these runs are to supply POE voip phones, total bandwidth = 64kb

POE max = 100mbps, cat6 is a total waste.

Yes, I tested them, no I didn't certify them.


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## Edrick

five.five-six said:


> CAT6 is pretty much useless anyway, CAT5e is rated for 1gig, CAT6 is rated for 10gig, even if there is a 10gig nic in the building, any equipment that will utilize OC192 bandwidth is going to cost well over 5 figures. Outside of a LEC environment, running CAT6 is like running 1,000mcm to 20 amp convenience receptacles. 1/2 of these runs are to supply POE voip phones, total bandwidth = 64kb POE max = 100mbps, cat6 is a total waste. Yes, I tested them, no I didn't certify them.


Cat6 is useless you say? Hmmmmmm


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## chewy

Edrick said:


> Cat6 is useless you say? Hmmmmmm


Better cut this box off and forget about it.


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## five.five-six

Edrick said:


> Cat6 is useless you say? Hmmmmmm


If you are hooking up desktop workstations, POE cameras or VOIP phones yes it is a total waste of money. If you are providing backbone for LEC, some of the larger gameing servers, eBay, yahoo, NSA data collection site that sort of thing, then it makes sense.


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## five.five-six

Edrick said:


> Cat6 is useless you say? Hmmmmmm


You have peaked my interest, what exactly do you use CAT6 for?


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> If you are hooking up desktop workstations, POE cameras or VOIP phones yes it is a total waste of money. If you are providing backbone for LEC, some of the larger gameing servers, eBay, yahoo, NSA data collection site that sort of thing, then it makes sense.


In which cat6a or cat7 would be better as an auxillary to fibre.


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## five.five-six

chewy said:


> In which cat6a or cat7 would be better as an auxillary to fibre.


Do you even have the slightest idea of what you are talking about? Are you installing MSNs ROADMs and/or SONNETs?

In all sincerity, what would cause you to specify CAT6 cabling on an installation? Serious question.


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> Do you even have the slightest idea of what you are talking about? Are you installing MSNs ROADMs and/or SONNETs?


Herpy derp derp.


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## five.five-six

chewy said:


> Herpy derp derp.


I will take that as no, you don't have any idea what you are talking about.


I will ask again, where is the practical application that necessitates the use of CAT6 wire? Or do you just sell it to people because you _think_ it's faster?


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## daveEM

five.five-six said:


> I will take that as no, you don't have any idea what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> I will ask again, where is the practical application that necessitates the use of CAT6 wire? Or do you just sell it to people because you _think_ it's faster?


Keep squeezing his nuts. The answer should be forthcoming. I'm thinking he knows of what he speaks.


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## five.five-six

daveEM said:


> Keep squeezing his nuts. The answer should be forthcoming. I'm thinking he knows of what he speaks.


if he does know of what he speaks, he sure has done a damn skippy job of obscuring it. :laughing:


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## jeffmoss26

five.five-six said:


> Do you even have the slightest idea of what you are talking about? Are you installing MSNs ROADMs and/or SONNETs?
> 
> In all sincerity, what would cause you to specify CAT6 cabling on an installation? Serious question.


wtf is MSN?
ROADM is fiber
SONET, not SONNET, is also fiber

If the customer wants Cat 6, they get Cat 6. Otherwise I stick with Cat 5e which has proved to be more than adequate for 1 gig ethernet.


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## 10492

five.five-six said:


> I will ask again, where is the practical application that necessitates the use of CAT6 wire?


Beats me, I'm not an IT guy, I just put in whatever they pay for.


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## Mike D

Why all the egos? I charge what the market will bear for a specific job.

Everyone charges differently. Some people need to get over themselves.


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## five.five-six

*SRY, autocorrect added an N to SONET*



jeffmoss26 said:


> wtf is MSN? *It's a broad term AKA multiservice network, generally inside plant networks that communicate frame relay, IP and ATM. *
> ROADM is fiber *and a street is a car*
> SONET, not SONNET, is also fiber *No, not really*
> 
> If the customer wants Cat 6, they get Cat 6. Otherwise I stick with Cat 5e which has proved to be more than adequate for 1 gig ethernet.



The point is that without the need for over 600MBPS throughput, and I dare you to show me a business office that uses that much bandwidth, CaT6 runs are a compete waste of money.

If you are not using 10GBPS NICs Routers and switches, It's like putting K rated tires on economy car.


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## SparkyDino

Mike D said:


> Why all the egos? I charge what the market will bear for a specific job.
> 
> Everyone charges differently. Some people need to get over themselves.


.......and area to area is a different market, even within a single state, much less state to state comparing.

"You'll work for only wages bidding that way?" whose wages? I did the same job for wages that varied by $20 per hour depending where I took the call out of.


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> The point is that without the need for over 600MBPS throughput, and I dare you to show me a business office that uses that much bandwidth, CaT6 runs are a compete waste of money.
> 
> If you are not using 10GBPS NICs Routers and switches, It's like putting K rated tires on economy car.


I dont know your abreviations but I usually install om3 backbones, links and stacks and run 6 or 6a for the network, its usually the clients specification since this is govt work. The big push for bring your own device capable WAPs has meant we no longer bother with 5e.


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## five.five-six

chewy said:


> I dont know your abreviations but I usually install om3 backbones, links and stacks and run 6 or 6a for the network, its usually the clients specification since this is govt work. The big push for bring your own device capable WAPs has meant we no longer bother with 5e.


You are not running your multimode fiber for throughput, it's for the distance. for larger campuses and backhaul you would use single mode. 10GBPS is equivalent to a OC192. It will support about 130,000 phone calls or 100 10meg internet connections. It is a really big pipe. If the office has less than 30 people that are paid to watch **** all day, CAT6 is a waste.


This thread, as described in the OP, is about a small TI expansion into a warehouse. The application was PoE VoIP phones and workstations. 


If you are awarded a government contract for CAT6, you install CAT6. If the demand for throughput is under 600MBPS, It is a waste. Generally I meet with the IT director in the bidding stage of a project and they are generally happy that I have saved them money. That is why I started this thread, I don't sell many CAT6 drops.





For most of my customers, connection a WAP to to a company LAN is grounds for termination over security concerns. On this particular project, being a tech company subject to industrial espionage, the specification is for all jacks that are not being used to be stuffed in the wall behind a blank plate. 



Do you run CAT6 to PoE WAPs?


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## chewy

When we do a network its all RJ45 and every outlet is a dual CAT6/CAT6a so everything is interchangeble and we RJ45 the existing phones because we terminate our voice onto RJ45 panels from the main PABX which is usually still Krone blocks. Ideally each desk location has dual power recepticle and dual data, one will be patched to network and another patched to phone. We dont downgrade cabling for specific uses. For WAPs its exactly like a desk dual outlet.


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## chewy

As far as security goes, there are no WAPs or cordless phones allowed in those buildings to start with and any electronic device is quarantined in a faraday cage and taken apart by their inhouse techs. They use propietry clear plastic surface run conduits and outlets and its nearly all voip and fibre to the desktop.


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## five.five-six

chewy said:


> As far as security goes, there are no WAPs or cordless phones allowed in those buildings to start with and any electronic device is quarantined in a faraday cage and taken apart by their inhouse techs. They use propietry clear plastic surface run conduits and outlets and its nearly all voip and fibre to the desktop.


If it's VoIP PoE devices, without a new IEEE specification the max throughput is 100MBPS even if you found some CAT7 to use, CAT3 meets the specification for PoE VoIP.


fibre to the desktop? seriously? Just another example of government wasting tax money. I am glad that you are making a living.


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## Dawizman

five.five-six said:


> If it's VoIP PoE devices, without a new IEEE specification the max throughput is 100MBPS even if you found some CAT7 to use, CAT3 meets the specification for PoE VoIP.
> 
> fibre to the desktop? seriously? Just another example of government wasting tax money. I am glad that you are making a living.


We regularly install devices powered by 802.3at poe that operate at 1000mbps.


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> If it's VoIP PoE devices, without a new IEEE specification the max throughput is 100MBPS even if you found some CAT7 to use, CAT3 meets the specification for PoE VoIP.
> 
> fibre to the desktop? seriously? Just another example of government wasting tax money. I am glad that you are making a living.


We have used Cat7 for certain customers more for the security aspect, they liked the shielding. Bonded pairs that are foiled, foiled again with drain wire then braid and foiled again, real PITA to termimate.


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## five.five-six

chewy said:


> We have used Cat7 for certain customers more for the security aspect, they liked the shielding. Bonded pairs that are foiled, foiled again with drain wire then braid and foiled again, real PITA to termimate.


It's ideas like this that makes me fearful of healthcare run by government. It is full of idiots that spend money like drunken sailors.

ETA, I just looked up CAT7 at my distributor, is that stuff really $600USD/k


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## Dawizman

five.five-six said:


> It's ideas like this that makes me fearful of healthcare run by government. It is full of idiots that spend money like drunken sailors.
> 
> ETA, I just looked up CAT7 at my distributor, is that stuff really $600USD/k


Yeah, it's bloody expensive. I can get 48 strand armoured single mode for that price.


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## five.five-six

Dawizman said:


> Yeah, it's bloody expensive. I can get 48 strand armoured single mode for that price.


That's basically why the TP76400 has all but excluded the use of CAT7


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## jeffmoss26

...or the fact that it's not a recognized standard.


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## five.five-six

jeffmoss26 said:


> ...or the fact that it's not a recognized standard.


I thought it had been adopted, I guess I was wrong. I kinda lost interest in it when I read about the 15meter limitation.


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## chewy

jeffmoss26 said:


> ...or the fact that it's not a recognized standard.


Thats correct we only permlink certified to 6a levels.


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## five.five-six

chewy said:


> As far as security goes, there are no WAPs or cordless phones allowed in those buildings to start with and any electronic device is quarantined in a faraday cage and taken apart by their inhouse techs. They use propietry clear plastic surface run conduits and outlets and its nearly all voip and fibre to the desktop.


I still don't understand why you are running CAT6 to VOIP phones, it's 130,000 times the bandwidth the phone will use.

And then your have to certify it because what? the phone won't work if it's not 10GBPS on a PoE switch that will only do 100MBPS? What kind of ****ty VoIP phones do you guys have in new Zealand? And why don't you have any decent engineers?


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> I still don't understand why you are running CAT6 to VOIP phones, it's 130,000 times the bandwidth the phone will use.
> 
> And then your have to certify it because what? the phone won't work if it's not 10GBPS on a PoE switch that will only do 100MBPS? What kind of ****ty VoIP phones do you guys have in new Zealand? And why don't you have any decent engineers?


We certify it because it has a 10 year manufacturers warranty if certified, your starting to sound like a big fish in a small pond. 

For instance in a 24 port cat6 panel we might have - 

Port 1 - patched to switch
Port 2 - patched to voice tie 1 (Mr Smith ext 490)
port 3 - patched to switch
port 4 - patched to voice tie 4 (Ms Jones ext 493)
port 5 - patched to switch (WAP)
Port 6 - 
Port 7 - photocopier patched to switch
Port 8 - patched to voice tie 9 (Copier room fax ext 854)
Port 9 - 
Port 10-
Port 11-
Port 12 - Patched to switch
Port 13 - Patched to voice tie (Mailroom ext 905)
etc etc etc.

We primarily install cisco voip phones. Are you suggesting I install cat6 for data then pull cat3 for the phones? 

And our ****ty engineers that I have worked for are from Google, my defense force, your defense force, intelligence communities, private data centers, shell oil, various embassies etc etc.


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## five.five-six

Nothing you have listed comes close to using 100MBPS, let alone 1GBPS, and 10GBPS is just redonkulous

So yes, it is poorly engineered. 


How much do you charge for a certified CAT6 cable?


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> Nothing you have listed comes close to using 100MBPS, let alone 1GBPS, and 10GBPS is just redonkulous
> 
> So yes, it is poorly engineered.
> 
> How much do you charge for a certified CAT6 cable?


I think about $200NZD plus labour.


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## five.five-six

I don't think I would be getting any jobs if I charged that much, then again I am not bidding government jobs. There is a lot of overhead in office work to get those jobs.


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## chewy

five.five-six said:


> I don't think I would be getting any jobs if I charged that much, then again I am not bidding government jobs. There is a lot of overhead in office work to get those jobs.


This is standard service rates for any clients, I wouldnt know what the price boiled down to on the multi million dollar jobs that required tray and conduits installed also.


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