# Lifts vs. Ladders.



## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Backstory: I was changing lighting at a shop with around an 15 foot ceiling. I had a lift, and a 12 foot ladder.

Today I was on a lift. A safety guy came along and inspected my harness. I mean, he looked at EVERYTHING!! He asked me what kind of fall restraint I was using, and I told him that I was going to use a motion limiter instead of a full fall protection thing because I'd hit ground before it reached its maximum.

Anyway I borrowed one of his super-awesome retractable fall restraints. It's like a seatbelt device so it'll allow you to move when you want, but locks up when you go too fast. I mean, I didn't even notice it when I was wearing it!!!

I set up my 12 foot ladder by a junction box so I could disconnect a circut at a time so I don't have to work on anything hot.

Now I didn't need anything to go up the ladder, but a beautiful platform, stable, I needed all this stuff. But the ladder? The tippy wobbly ladder? As long as I 3-point up, no problem.

Safety, sometimes, confuses me.

(btw I now wear safety glasses all the time at work, regardless of my work, unless I need to see into my pouch)


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

OSHA does not require harnesses on ladders or scissor lifts. (If you were in the US)


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## rma1998 (Jun 27, 2010)

_Scissor lifts_
Workers on scissor lifts must either be tied-off or protected by guardrails. The Aerial Lift standard (§1926.453) applies to equipment covered in ANSI A92.2 (1969). Scissor lifts are not addressed in that ANSI standard; consequently, they are not covered by the Aerial Lift standard. Since they are a type of work platform, they are covered under the scaffold standard, §1926.451. Paragraph (g)(1)(vii) of §1926.451 requires that employees be protected by a personal fall arrest system or a guardrail system that meets the requirements of §1926.451(g)(4).

*Fixed ladders: fall protection must be provided for employees climbing or working on fixed ladders above 24 feet.*
29 CFR 1926.1053(a)(19) states that fall protection must be provided whenever the length of climb on a fixed ladder equals or exceeds 24 feet. A fixed ladder is "a ladder that cannot be readily moved or carried because it is an integral part of a building or structure" (§1926.1050(b)). Also, even if the length of climb is less than 24 feet, under §1926.1053(a)(18), cages, wells, ladder safety devices, or self-retracting lifelines must be provided where the top of the fixed ladder is greater than 24 feet above lower levels.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Most places are making you wear a harness on a scissor lift nowadays, which is stupid IMO. It's just one more thing to have to get tangled up in. 

I can see the point in a boom lift but I still hate wearing one.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

It's a company policiy to follow on-site specific safety policies that supersede our own.

Plus, you do what the customer says hahaha.


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## rma1998 (Jun 27, 2010)

kaboler said:


> It's a company policiy to follow on-site specific safety policies that supersede our own.
> 
> Plus, you do what the customer says hahaha.



Usually your insurance company has a say as well....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I stopped having employee's in 1993. Guess what played a big part of that decision?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

rma1998 said:


> _Scissor lifts_
> Workers on scissor lifts must either be tied-off or protected by guardrails. The Aerial Lift standard (§1926.453) applies to equipment covered in ANSI A92.2 (1969). Scissor lifts are not addressed in that ANSI standard; consequently, they are not covered by the Aerial Lift standard. Since they are a type of work platform, they are covered under the scaffold standard, §1926.451. Paragraph (g)(1)(vii) of §1926.451 requires that employees be protected by a personal fall arrest system or a guardrail system that meets the requirements of §1926.451(g)(4).
> 
> *Fixed ladders: fall protection must be provided for employees climbing or working on fixed ladders above 24 feet.*
> 29 CFR 1926.1053(a)(19) states that fall protection must be provided whenever the length of climb on a fixed ladder equals or exceeds 24 feet. A fixed ladder is "a ladder that cannot be readily moved or carried because it is an integral part of a building or structure" (§1926.1050(b)). Also, even if the length of climb is less than 24 feet, under §1926.1053(a)(18), cages, wells, ladder safety devices, or self-retracting lifelines must be provided where the top of the fixed ladder is greater than 24 feet above lower levels.


Is there point here?


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Is there point here?


 The moral of the story is; you're fired before you hit the ground.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mattsilkwood said:


> The moral of the story is; you're fired before you hit the ground.


LMAO ........... until I realize that is not so far from the truth.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rma1998 said:


> _................_*Fixed ladders: fall protection must be provided for employees climbing or working on fixed ladders above 24 feet.*
> 29 CFR 1926.1053(a)(19) states that fall protection must be provided whenever the length of climb on a fixed ladder equals or exceeds 24 feet. A fixed ladder is "a ladder that cannot be readily moved or carried because it is an integral part of a building or structure" (§1926.1050(b)). Also, even if the length of climb is less than 24 feet, under §1926.1053(a)(18), cages, wells, ladder safety devices, or self-retracting lifelines must be provided where the top of the fixed ladder is greater than 24 feet above lower levels.


I'm curious to know how often you set up a 'fixed ladder'.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> LMAO ........... until I realize that is not so far from the truth.


 There is a few roofers around here that roll like that. They pay their help as subcontractors, no overtime, no workers comp. The guys they have are pretty low on the food chain and they don't have a clue that any of it is illegal. 
There was a guy a few years ago that fell and broke his back, there was a couple months where the city was checking everyones license and insurance but that fizzed out pretty quick. I don't know whatever happened with the guy that fell.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Most customers of ours- over 6'- harness, no matter what your on.
Some 100 % all hooks. This can be a real PITA for some tasks !


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

leland said:


> Most customers of ours- over 6'- harness, no matter what your on.
> Some 100 % all hooks. This can be a real PITA for some tasks !


I worked at a place where you had to have a spotter if you were working on a ladder 6' or more.

I just don't like having to wear a harness for lifts, yet nothing for a 12' ladder. SUP!!!!


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