# 240v L1 and L2



## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Is this a 240 delta high leg system? Maybe the controls don't care much for 208 L-N.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Did that work. I would be surprised unless it is supposed to be a 3 phase system and it is marked incorrectly.


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

It's in a residential house. 200amp 120/240 overhead


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mikewardjr said:


> It's in a residential house. 200amp 120/240 overhead


Did you switch it. Switching the L1 and L2 shouldn't change anything.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

mikewardjr said:


> It's in a residential house. 200amp 120/240 overhead





Dennis Alwon said:


> Did you switch it. Switching the L1 and L2 shouldn't change anything.


Agreed.


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

I haven't yet. I'm going to humor the contractor and switch it tomorrow. Ill tell him if it fixes the issue I won't charge. If it doesnt. He's getting a bill. I agree with you guys. Shouldn't/doesn't matter


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## cal1947 (Nov 14, 2009)

*cal1947*



Dennis Alwon said:


> Did you switch it. Switching the L1 and L2 shouldn't change anything.


 i seen on a single phase 208 volt condenser fan run backwards , had to switch phases


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## Cujo (Feb 4, 2012)

I would be surprised to see that fixing the issue. If it does try to get your hand on a schematic to show us.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

cal1947 said:


> i seen on a single phase 208 volt condenser fan run backwards , had to switch phases


 That does not appear to be what the OP was talking about but I don't see how that could be. Internal wiring in the motor can reverse a single phase motor but I have never seen one reverse by switching the L1 & L2.


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That does not appear to be what the OP was talking about but I don't see how that could be. Internal wiring in the motor can reverse a single phase motor but I have never seen one reverse by switching the L1 & L2.


This is 120/240. I'll snap a few pics of the schematics tomorrow.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Maybe I'm about to get an education, but I don't see how OP's problem or Cal's 208 motor would be affected by swapping leads.

Single phase motors ain't my specialty, but as best as I know the only way to reverse one is swap the start winding connections.

-John


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

Big John said:


> Maybe I'm about to get an education, but I don't see how OP's problem or Cal's 208 motor would be affected by swapping leads.
> 
> Single phase motors ain't my specialty, but as best as I know the only way to reverse one is swap the start winding connections.
> 
> -John


I agree with you


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## aussielecky (Jun 3, 2012)

Big John said:


> Maybe I'm about to get an education, but I don't see how OP's problem or Cal's 208 motor would be affected by swapping leads.
> 
> Single phase motors ain't my specialty, but as best as I know the only way to reverse one is swap the start winding connections.
> 
> -John


or the run winding or if its a shaded pole swap the rotor around


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

I agree with everyone else swapping the L1/L2 should do nothing.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> I agree with everyone else swapping the L1/L2 should do nothing.


And I agree with you agreeing with everyone else.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

probably missing a jumper wire somewhere. Would not waste my time switching phases to humor them.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I not only agree with everyone, I KNOW that switching L1 and L2 will do nothing.

If the run button doesn't work, there's a factory defect or shipping damage in the unit someplace.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

I agree with all the agreeers in their agreements and agreements on the agreements.

And I agree it's more likely something like a missing jumper. 

But I also want to know the name of the idiotic company that says to "swap L1 and L2, it happens all the time"...

I want to make sure I never recommend them to anyone. :blink:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

After reading all this, I agree.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I agree.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

To hell with all of you. I disagree.









Actually I do agree but it was too trite to say as much.


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I not only agree with everyone, I KNOW that switching L1 and L2 will do nothing.
> 
> If the run button doesn't work, there's a factory defect or shipping damage in the unit someplace.


This was my thoughts exactly!!


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

This is the schematic. As you can see next to the breakers there isn't really much room for error. I switched L1and L2 that were going to the pump motor on one of the panels and the manual run button worked. But when I went to do the same thing in a panel I wired Down the street it did not solve the problem. So now I'm very confused. 


:-/


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I cannot see the entire setup but switch L1 and L2 did not work-- did it. You switch wires somewhere else where the wire goes thru that spdt transfer switch. I am guess there is something going on with which leg is switched thru that.

Which wires did you switch exactly???


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

So did you run an alarm circuit also? I don't see how this is compliant because if the pump shorts and kills the dp breaker feeding the box then the alarm loses power.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

It has to be the electronics which are looking for something. A simple contactor circuit definitely would not behave this way
Doesnt make any sense, but since the manufacturer claims this happens all the time, there has to be some reason.
Maybe measuring the phase angle - I'm stumped


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

These panels do not require the separate alarm feed like the septic panels do. The alarm is tapped off the line side of one side of the two pole. 

I swapped L1 and L2 going to the pump motor. The right two terminals on that gray block. It worked on one panel but not the other


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

wcord said:


> It has to be the electronics which are looking for something....


 That's the only thing I would've guessed when I said "Maybe I'm about to get an education." But for the life of me, I can't even think of how you'd design a circuit to do that. If you're only comparing the voltages on two points, how on earth would it know which one should be L1 and which one should be L2?

-John


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Why is a 120/240 volt system referred to as "single phase"? :jester:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I not only agree with everyone, I KNOW that switching L1 and L2 will do nothing.
> 
> If the run button doesn't work, there's a factory defect or shipping damage in the unit someplace.


agreed, swapping will do NOTHING.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Why is a 120/240 volt system referred to as "single phase"? :jester:


Because it is single phase, hits the xformer, gets split into 2 equal halves and drops to the house. I know you know this, just felt like typing it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mikewardjr said:


> These panels do not require the separate alarm feed like the septic panels do. The alarm is tapped off the line side of one side of the two pole.


So what good is the alarm if the circuit trips at the panel?




> I swapped L1 and L2 going to the pump motor. The right two terminals on that gray block. It worked on one panel but not the other


 If that black and red go directly to the pump that I have no idea how that would change anything.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

the op said the manual run switch is not operating....did you try to jump/by pass this switch?...L1/L2 is non sense....there is a problem with electronics here...get out your meter and that sch-mat and start chasing this to ground...you'll find issue..:thumbup:...I always go nc/no first..quick and dirty...those are easy points to check. good luck !!!


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Very odd that it appeared to work, but then when you said it DIDN'T work on the other one, that has me thinking it's a noise issue. Most likely something on the PCB is highly sensitive to common mode noise and is tapping off of one line to neutral to power the DC power supply in the PCB. You had more noise on one line than the other so when you swapped them, the issue that was preventing the electronics from enabling the manual run command went away. But in the other location, you may have had too much noise on both lines, or it was on the neutral so it didn't help to swap lines. It has to be something like that.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

mikewardjr said:


> This is the schematic. As you can see next to the breakers there isn't really much room for error. I switched L1and L2 that were going to the pump motor on one of the panels and the manual run button worked. But when I went to do the same thing in a panel I wired Down the street it did not solve the problem. So now I'm very confused.
> 
> 
> :-/


Why are there splices for a new installation?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

When they said to swap L1 and L2. why did you swap the motor leads and not the line?


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## LightsOn81 (Jan 6, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Did that work. I would be surprised unless it is supposed to be a 3 phase system and it is marked incorrectly.


That would be the only problem. Unless Thera a component in all this that's 3 phase that thing should work


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

Solution

After arguing with the company. They came out and came to the conclusion that 2 of the 3 panels were defective.


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## bthesparky (Jan 23, 2009)

There's a shocker lol


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