# M12



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I think you will still need both. M12 is great but some jobs require the big guy.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm very happy with all my M12 tools and I have many of them. 

Screwdriver, impacts, right angle drill, 3/8" ratchet, oscillating tool, circular saw, rotary tool, etc


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

There seems to be a huge price difference between the regular M12 & M12 Fuel. I'm wondering if it's worth the difference to go the Fuel route.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I have the 18v 1/2" right angle drill, 1/2" hammer drill, 1" SDS drill, and sawzalls hardly ever take them out.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have the 18v 1/2" right angle drill, 1/2" hammer drill, 1" SDS drill, and sawzalls hardly ever take them out.


Same here but I could not do without them.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

bill39 said:


> There seems to be a huge price difference between the regular M12 & M12 Fuel. I'm wondering if it's worth the difference to go the Fuel route.


For an impact or saw I think Fuel is the way to go.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

eddy current said:


> Same here but I could not do without them.


For dealing with aged wood framing and holes larger than 1" the 18v is better, it just depends on how much of that you do.

Sawzalls need to be 18v as well.

I don't have the M12 SDS or bandsaw but everyone swears by them.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm going M18. Sometimes it gets gnarly. What's Surge?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

You really need both. Some tools you will want M12 and other M18.

The M18 drill is what you will use for your renovations when you need to drill lots and lots of studs. 

The M12 will work for everything else.

I just did a foyer renovation in which I left the M18 drill in my truck because my M12 impact gun with a daredevil spade bit was plenty for drilling the 12-15 studs/joists. But if it were bigger I would have gotten the M18.

It really depends on the tool.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> I'm going M18. Sometimes it gets gnarly. *What's Surge?*


1. A French Canadian guy with a poor attidude

2. When the ocean water is pushed into the beach by heavy winds

3. A new style impact that seems like an odd concept


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> I'm going M18. Sometimes it gets gnarly.


Listen to Hacks opinion!

You'll see!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> You really need both. Some tools you will want M12 and other M18.
> 
> The M18 drill is what you will use for your renovations when you need to drill lots and lots of studs.
> 
> ...


Why do I need both? I haven't used M12 anything in five years except a radio.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Why do I need both? I haven't used M12 anything in five years except a radio.


Finesse my friend.

M18 can be like a bull in a china shop.

Would you drive wire staples with a sledge hammer?

Unless you are changing tires or driving large lags you won't need more than an M12 in impact drivers.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Why do I need both? I haven't used M12 anything in five years except a radio.


I can't imagine going back to using a full size drill and battery for normal everyday tasks. It's just not necessary and it makes the day easier and faster having the smaller tool.

That M12 Fuel impact gun replaced 90% of what I used the full size 18V Dewalt drill for. And the impact gun fits right into my service tray or my pocket, instead of needing a separate hand to carry it in and around.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I can't imagine going back to using a full size drill and battery for normal everyday tasks. It's just not necessary and it makes the day easier and faster having the smaller tool.
> 
> That M12 Fuel impact gun replaced 90% of what I used the full size 18V Dewalt drill for. And the impact gun fits right into my service tray or my pocket, instead of needing a separate hand to carry it in and around.


Makes sense but I'm a minimalist. I hate owning things. I know it can be counterproductive but it's just the way I'm built.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Makes sense but I'm a minimalist. I hate owning things. I know it can be counterproductive but it's just the way I'm built.


Dude, so am I. I got rid of all the tools that I don't use often. 

But still, it makes no sense to use a huge, heavy, super powerful 18V drill to drive in a device screw (as one of 50 examples).


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

For installing boxes and straps I can see an M12 doing just fine. But for drilling 1" holes or using an auger bit or dversa bit, I think just having the larger tool is better for control. The weight of the heavier tool helps with control when drilling. 
I rest the handle and battery against my forearm at times to prevent the drill from spinning.
I think it's a good idea to have both voltages if you can afford it. I even have an M28 sds that stays in the garage most days. 
I also like that you can buy a charger that charges both m12 and m18.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Dude, so am I. I got rid of all the tools that I don't use often.
> 
> But still, it makes no sense to use a huge, heavy, super powerful 18V drill to drive in a device screw (as one of 50 examples).


I have a 12V Bosch ratcheting head driver I use for devices and getting into tight spots. It's a cool little driver, actually.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

NDC said:


> For installing boxes and straps I can see an M12 doing just fine. But for drilling 1" holes or using an auger bit or dversa bit, I think just having the larger tool is better for control. The weight of the heavier tool helps with control when drilling.
> I rest the handle and battery against my forearm at times to prevent the drill from spinning.
> I think it's a good idea to have both voltages if you can afford it. I even have an M28 sds that stays in the garage most days.
> I also like that you can buy a charger that charges both m12 and m18.


Yup, very true.

For most of my work nowadays (service work) I only have to make a few holes so the little M12 impact with a dare devil is fine for a dozen 1" holes. But for large renovations the M18 is definitely better.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

99cents said:


> I have a 12V Bosch ratcheting head driver I use for devices and getting into tight spots. It's a cool little driver, actually.


Once you use the M12, you will try and use it for everything. So light, small and powerful. 

Too bad they don’t have a package deal with both the M18 Hammer and the M12 regular driver with a keyless chuck.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

I'd sell you my M18 stuff but I may never retire and you are hard on tools.  I guess I don't work as hard as you and if I ever did I used my 1/2" Magnum...










^^ I do love that drill but times do change and I haven't used it in a few years.


You would probably wreck the M12 stuff in a day.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

daveEM said:


> I'd sell you my M18 stuff but I may never retire and you are hard on tools.  I guess I don't work as hard as you and if I ever did I used my 1/2" Magnum...
> 
> [IG]https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/484a79bd-5c01-4b90-94b6-aee587d8f703/svn/milwaukee-drill-drivers-0299-20-64_1000.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> ...


Dave, you may or may not remember that I was also a big fan of that drill and used it often for larger holesaws or self feed bits.

But ever since I got the new second generation M18 drill I never looked back. I actually sold the Magnum Holeshooter. The M18 is more powerful. 1,200inlbs of torque for a drill is insane. And it runs all day.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Makes sense but I'm a minimalist. I hate owning things. I know it can be counterproductive but *it's just the way I'm built*.


At your age maybe a small remodel is in order!

Work smarter not harder.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

daveEM said:


> I'd sell you my M18 stuff but I may never retire and you are hard on tools.  I guess I don't work as hard as you and if I ever did I used my 1/2" Magnum...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The M#0234-1 1/2" magnum holeshooter, mine is 25 years old and going strong when there is tough work to be done.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> But ever since I got the new second generation M18 drill I never looked back. I actually sold the Magnum Holeshooter. The M18 is more powerful. 1,200inlbs of torque for a drill is insane. And it runs all day.


Yeah, that's the wrong pic. Mine is also the hole shooter and has the keyless chuck. 

I didn't realize the M18 had more torque. Quite the thing. I did drill out a basement a couple of years ago with the M18 and it did fine. At the time I was too lazy to get my cords out.

I just can't seem to sell my tools. That magnum I bought in 1979. Now it sits in the bottom of my toolbox on the truck "just in case" . I've not used it since I got the M18 four or so years ago.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

daveEM said:


> Yeah, that's the wrong pic. Mine is also the hole shooter and has the keyless chuck.
> 
> I didn't realize the M18 had more torque. Quite the thing. I did drill out a basement a couple of years ago with the M18 and it did fine. At the time I was too lazy to get my cords out.
> 
> *I just can't seem to sell my tools*. That magnum I bought in 1979. Now it sits in the bottom of my toolbox on the truck "just in case" . I've not used it since I got the M18 four or so years ago.


I won't sell a tool that has been a real pleasure to use and never let me down.


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## NorCalChico (Sep 29, 2017)

The new M12 (gen 2) should be coming out this month, I plan on getting a set.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Hax have you sold your Dewalt 18 volt stuff? That stuff is the ****. Best drill ever made.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Hax have you sold your Dewalt 18 volt stuff? That stuff is the ****. Best drill ever made.


I have a few that are close to new if you are looking to buy.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Hax have you sold your Dewalt 18 volt stuff? That stuff is the ****. Best drill ever made.


Yes, a while ago. I sold off everything. Now I have just the essentials.

*M18*
Drill w/ hammer function - Fuel (2nd gen, a real beast)
Oscillating tool
Fan


*M12*
Impact - Fuel
Sticklight
Floodlight
SDS Rotary Hammer - Fuel
Bandsaw
Drill w/hammer function (non-Fuel, it's one of the small originals)


As for the Dewalt tools, I used them for a long time and liked them back then, but the 18V NiCad batteries are crap. I would often have to use 2 batteries to finish one small task. An M18 battery lasts me multiple jobs. My little M12 Fuel hackzawl is as powerful as the Dewalt 18V sawzall.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Dave, you may or may not remember that I was also a big fan of that drill and used it often for larger holesaws or self feed bits.


You used a pistol grip drill for hole saws and self feed bits? :blink:


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## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

You can do finesse work with the M18. It's got a variable speed trigger, not to mention 3 speeds. Get slim batteries for it and it feels way lighter and better balanced. 

The surge is a hydraulic impact that's 50% quieter than a standard impact. I've had it for about 2 weeks now and I love it. Most of the time I feel like it's way quieter than 50% less.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

And don’t forget all the M12 heated gear you can get. Sweaters, jackets.......


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## mdnitedrftr (Aug 21, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Hax have you sold your Dewalt 18 volt stuff? That stuff is the ****. Best drill ever made.


That stuff was/is bulletproof. Not like the crap now.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

I like the m12 line it has more power than you would think and they are light . 

For what I get into the m18 is the cats arse and the surge kicks arse until you get to the big lags yo .


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I am a big fan of the M12 and for commercial it's my choice. For the mix of tasks you do in residential - I think if you're going to go one or the other, the M18 wins hands down. 

The impact driver: the M18 is much better for boring wood. It has three settings instead of two. It's only a little bigger and bulkier than the M12. 

The hammer drill-driver: M18 is quite a bit better, the bulk is probably not a factor. 

Hackzall - don't know, can't say; hate 

Oscillating tool gets a lot of use in residential - M18 

SDS drills - for residential, it's M18 or corded IMO.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

MTW said:


> You used a pistol grip drill for hole saws and self feed bits? :blink:


The pic isn't quite clear but you can see it has a rotating 'T' handle near the chuck.

Load a 4 inch hole saw in that guy and if you aren't careful it break both your wrists. Wonderful drill.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Dark Knight said:


> You can do finesse work with the M18. It's got a variable speed trigger, not to mention 3 speeds. Get slim batteries for it and it feels way lighter and better balanced.
> 
> The surge is a hydraulic impact that's 50% quieter than a standard impact. I've had it for about 2 weeks now and I love it. Most of the time I feel like it's way quieter than 50% less.


It's more the size and weight of the M18 that I find off putting for small work, yeah you can use it but why have to make concessions?

While the surge maybe so much more quiet the torque is much lower than the regular M18 impact, so to me it's more a hammer drill than a serious impact.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

daveEM said:


> The pic isn't quite clear but you can see it has a rotating 'T' handle near the chuck.
> 
> Load a 4 inch hole saw in that guy and if you aren't careful it break both your wrists. Wonderful drill.


The old fashioned (no clutch) hole hawg has caused many injuries.

I still like a RAD for large self feeds or holesaws.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> SDS drills - for residential, it's M18 or corded IMO.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


>


Yeah we know you have that compact M12 sds badass.

The 18v Milwaukee I have isn't much different in size than a Bosch Bulldog.

If it's anchor holes I use the 18v, larger holes the Bulldog or the next size large Bosch.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Yeah we know you have that compact M12 sds badass.
> 
> The 18v Milwaukee I have isn't much different in size than a Bosch Bulldog.
> 
> If it's anchor holes I use the 18v, larger holes the Bulldog or the next size large Bosch.


I had a corded Hilti TE-7C SDS-Plus that I sold since I never used it after getting the M12 Fuel SDS. Everyone who has touched the M12 Fuel SDS praises it. It's tiny but it's a brute. It works as well as the Hilti and it's completely taken over all SDS-Plus tasks. 

I only break out the bigger Hilti SDS-Max TE-60 for ground rods.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I've said it many times how I used to love the Bosch Bulldogs. They were bulletproof.

But they are now like a brace and bit, old and stupid. There is absolutely no reason to use a cord when the battery options are so much more powerful.


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## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> It's more the size and weight of the M18 that I find off putting for small work, yeah you can use it but why have to make concessions?
> 
> While the surge maybe so much more quiet the torque is much lower than the regular M18 impact, so to me it's more a hammer drill than a serious impact.


For anything up to a 3" screw the surge is faster than the standard impact. 3" is about the same. The surge has higher IPM, and RPM is the same, I think, I'd have to double check. I haven't done any lags with it yet, so my opinion of it might change when that happens, but so far it's better than the standard impact.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

The M12 hacksaw is the handiest thing I've purchased in the last 5 years or so. I use it for all kinds of cutting including small firewood.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I had a corded Hilti TE-7C SDS-Plus that I sold since I never used it after getting the M12 Fuel SDS. Everyone who has touched the M12 Fuel SDS praises it. It's tiny but it's a brute. It works as well as the Hilti and it's completely taken over all SDS-Plus tasks.
> 
> I only break out the bigger Hilti SDS-Max TE-60 for ground rods.


If I did enough concrete drilling to get good use out of it I'd go for the M12 SDS, but in the last few years I've done very little in that area.

I hear raves about that little drill all the time.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I've said it many times how I used to love the Bosch Bulldogs. They were bulletproof.
> 
> But they are now like a brace and bit, old and stupid. There is absolutely no reason to use a cord when the battery options are so much more powerful.


Bulldogs are still bulletproof. Nothing wrong with them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Bulldogs are still bulletproof. Nothing wrong with them.


There is something very wrong with them, they need to be plugged in and they still produce less power than the inexpensive cordless options available today.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I have tried both and the Bulldog hands down outperforms the M12 fuel SDS hands down for 1-3/8" and up holes with thinwall core bits through foundations. That's not surprising. 

The M12 Fuel SDS is great if you have a lot of 1/4" anchor holes to drill. It's light and fast and works great. But IMO a lot of 1/4" anchors doesn't come up that often in residential work. The M12 SDS is better than the M18 hammer drill / driver, but you have to be doing a lot of holes for it to save you much time. 

If you're doing 3/8" holes for drop ins or etc., the M12 Fuel SDS is great, but doing a lot of those is even more unusual in residential work. 

In fact really if you do mostly residential work and you are a minimalist, get the M18 Fuel impact and hammer drill-driver set, and a good corded SDS max drill, and use an SDS max shaft for core bits for drilling foundations for service pipes, and you're pretty much all set for making holes and driving ground rods. Add the oscillating tool, hackzall if you're one of those guys, and you're done.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Until I hit a job where a cordless SDS drill is essential, I will continue to use my Bulldog.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Until I hit a job where a cordless SDS drill is essential, I will continue to use my Bulldog.


I'm not telling you to get a new one. I am just saying that some of the M18 SDS-Plus rotary hammers are more powerful and inexpensive. I can't see any reason to buy a Bulldog today when there are better options.

The M12 SDS-Plus isn't as powerful, but for resi work it's always been more than necessary.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Did a town hall renovation (built 1852). Brick building with brick interior walls all over the place. Wish I’d had the m12, but the boss’ m28 sds was a lifesaver. 

Resi work yeah no real need for anything more than you hammer setting on a drill/driver. Corded hammer drill for the rare big hole through a foundation or driving ground rods maybe.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

tjb said:


> Resi work yeah no real need for anything more than you hammer setting on a drill/driver. Corded hammer drill for the rare big hole through a foundation or driving ground rods maybe.


I really hate using a drill that has a hammer function for hammer drilling. I think it hurts the drill more than anything, and it doesn't drill that well. The M12 SDS really shines for that type of stuff. 

I use it often for drilling thru foundations, from 5/8" for a 10-3 romex to 1" for a 1/2" EMT. It drills it like butter.

Another instance that it really works well is on brick houses. Drilling 1 handed off of an extension ladder is a breeze, and it drills the hard brick like butter. It really made a night and day difference in installing service risers on brick houses.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

daveEM said:


> The pic isn't quite clear but you can see it has a rotating 'T' handle near the chuck.
> 
> Load a 4 inch hole saw in that guy and if you aren't careful it break both your wrists. Wonderful drill.


I would never dream of running a hole saw with a pistol grip. Only a right angle drill for me. One time I tore my finger open using a large Daredevil bit in my regular fuel drill and it got stock and twisted the drill, jamming my finger against the wood. From that point forward I only drill large diameter holes with the Fuel Hole Hawg or regular Hole Hawg.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I really like the look of some of the M18 rotary hammers, but they're just so expensive. I have a Makita 18V D-handle rotary hammer that I've been beating the tar out of for over 5 years and it's still going strong. Around here you can get it tool only for under $200. The same form factor Milwaukee drill is around twice the price tool only! I'd like to get a Milwaukee because then I would be on one battery system, but I just can't justify the price.

What I really want is the 1 1/8" M18 rotary hammer with the dust extractor, but damn is that spendy.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

B-Nabs said:


> I really like the look of some of the M18 rotary hammers, but they're just so expensive. I have a Makita 18V D-handle rotary hammer that I've been beating the tar out of for over 5 years and it's still going strong. Around here you can get it tool only for under $200. The same form factor Milwaukee drill is around twice the price tool only! I'd like to get a Milwaukee because then I would be on one battery system, but I just can't justify the price.
> 
> What I really want is the 1 1/8" M18 rotary hammer with the dust extractor, but damn is that spendy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Seems to me since the Fuel line of tools is so popular that Milwaukee is going crazy with M18 prices.

Even their batteries are way more than other brands.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Here is a corded Bosch Bulldog Extreme Sds-Plus rotary hammer which has 2.0 Ft.-Lbs. of impact energy for $200: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-7...y-Handle-and-Carrying-Case-11255VSR/202080348

Here is a cordless Milwaukee M18 SDS-Plus rotary hammer which has 3.3 ft-lbs of impact energy for $350: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...lus-Rotary-Hammer-Tool-Only-2715-20/205563079

The M18 is more money, but it is also more powerful by a significant amount and it's cordless.

Not having to deal with cords not only saves frustration, but money. 

Also remember that my Hilti TE-7C (which is very common) only had 1.7 ft-lbs of impact energy and it cost $400

As for M18 batteries, they are all over the place in price. You need to look for the good deals. I got 4 of the 5.0's for $200 last year. I love them because they just work and seem to last for a long time.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I bought the 1" M18 Fuel SDS for a job I did last year that required lots of anchors and the occasional hole through block. I seriously can't even imagine going back to a corded hammer drill now.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Seems to me since the Fuel line of tools is so popular that Milwaukee is going crazy with M18 prices.
> 
> Even their batteries are way more than other brands.


In my observation, a lot of the 18v tools are comparable in price or even cheaper than the other brands, but the rotary hammers are much more for some reason. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

B-Nabs said:


> In my observation, a lot of the 18v tools are comparable in price or even cheaper than the other brands, but the rotary hammers are much more for some reason.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Looking at their M18 prices compared to 18V Makita their tools are far more overall and I know the Makita 18v tools work well.


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## UncleMike (Jan 2, 2013)

HackWork said:


> As for M18 batteries, they are all over the place in price. You need to look for the good deals. I got 4 of the 5.0's for $200 last year. I love them because they just work and seem to last for a long time.


Don't forget to keep an eye out for combo deals or Milwaukee's "overpack" bundles - like the current M18 Fuel Sawzall or M18 Fuel circular saw, each bundled with a 9.0Ah battery and rapid charger. Back in August Home Depot had 2 9.0Ah batteries and a rapid charger for $199. In September I bought 2 of the Sawzall overpack bundles at a local Home Depot for $125 each (on clearance), and sold the Sawzalls for $120 and $100 - leaving me with 2 9.0Ah batteries and 2 rapid charger for a total of $30.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

UncleMike said:


> Back in August Home Depot had 2 9.0Ah batteries and a rapid charger for $199.


I scored one of those as soon as I saw the display. They sold out very quickly. I also bought the circular saw bundle and then I bought the buy one, get one free deal with the hedge trimmer and weed whacker, and scored yet another 9 AH battery. :thumbup:


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