# Inside apprentice, or telecommunications?



## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Unless your telcom classes are in wireless I would avoid that dead end.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

I think the question is more Arenu gonna be union or non union. In the union the telco guys got it made
Its only a few $ a hour less but still a good pay. It’s way easier on your body you don’t have to rh. Conduit or pull big wire. And most telco guys who are any good her Forman’s wages so that puts them even closer to wiremans pay. If your on union your gonna spend 20-40k to learn to be a glorified cable guy making 15 an hour working you ass off.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

J∑3 said:


> *I'm in the process of applying for an apprenticeship at a local trade school*, and I'm torn between inside wireman and telecom.


This is the part you should be thinking very hard about, so many times trade school is a huge waste of time and money. 

Regarding telecom versus wireman - usually the higher the voltage, the higher the pay, so there's that.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Inside wireman would be my suggestion.


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## Bourbon County (Aug 19, 2020)

I tend to agree that telecom is headed the way of the dinosaur, with one exception. If this infrastructure bill goes through and rural broadband is made a priority there may be lots of jobs for fiber optic splicers. If this is a consideration, you might have to go to someplace that GPS can't locate to work.


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## J∑3 (Aug 14, 2021)

splatz said:


> This is the part you should be thinking very hard about, so many times trade school is a huge waste of time and money.
> 
> Regarding telecom versus wireman - usually the higher the voltage, the higher the pay, so there's that.


Can you elaborate on why tradeschool is a waste of time?


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Bourbon County said:


> I tend to agree that telecom is headed the way of the dinosaur, with one exception. If this infrastructure bill goes through and rural broadband is made a priority there may be lots of jobs for fiber optic splicers. If this is a consideration, you might have to go to someplace that GPS can't locate to work.


Is broadband going to be fiber? I've been involved with two different broadband companies, both wireless. I think that is the way to do a rural broadband build out. 
I've also talked to a guy that used to be a well paid fiber splicing tech. Along came fusion splicing, and his job of splicing by hand became obsolete. He would have had to take a severe pay cut to stay on with them as it is now a fairly robust and low skill process for which his skills were no longer needed.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

J∑3 said:


> Can you elaborate on why tradeschool is a waste of time?


In most trades, it's seldom worth the job opportunities it opens up for you. Maybe HVACR but not the electrical programs. 

The unions have their own training program which costs you little to nothing out of pocket. Other apprenticeship programs have education that costs much less than trade school, and with an apprenticeship you work while you're in the program. 

In my area there are some decent community college programs that are not expensive. If you want to spend a lot of money on your education, get a bachelor's degree and not in something like basketweaving or barista studies.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Telecommunications or a real career, that is the question.


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## Bourbon County (Aug 19, 2020)

Forge Boyz said:


> Is broadband going to be fiber? I've been involved with two different broadband companies, both wireless. I think that is the way to do a rural broadband build out.
> I've also talked to a guy that used to be a well paid fiber splicing tech. Along came fusion splicing, and his job of splicing by hand became obsolete. He would have had to take a severe pay cut to stay on with them as it is now a fairly robust and low skill process for which his skills were no longer needed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


It might be a regional thing. I live in a rural area with digital cable less than 2 miles away in either direction, fiber phone service within 1 mile. When I built the house 23 years ago, I was so optimistic I dropped a 300 ft long 1 inch PVC conduit in a ditch so the fiber optic could be fished in without disturbing the yard! Both the cable company and phone company told me they have no plans to extend service to my house since there just weren't enough customers to be economically feasible. Both companies also told me that Metronet which is to my understanding is all fiber would be along soon. I was contacted by T Mobile about a year ago with an offer for a mobile hot spot internet service which I jumped on quickly. My previous internet service was the slowest DSL ever made, I went from a blazing 0.6 meg to 50 meg. It was life changing for me. According to T Mobile they only offered their internet if you lived within a certain distance from a tower. There is a tower within sight of my house, maybe a mile or so away.

Metronet is very actively building lines in my part of the state and seems like they always have help wanted ads for fiber splicers posted. I have never actually done any fiber optic work and wasn't aware of the fusion splicing. 

Who knows, Elon Musk might just have the answer.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Bourbon County said:


> It might be a regional thing. I live in a rural area with digital cable less than 2 miles away in either direction, fiber phone service within 1 mile. When I built the house 23 years ago, I was so optimistic I dropped a 300 ft long 1 inch PVC conduit in a ditch so the fiber optic could be fished in without disturbing the yard! Both the cable company and phone company told me they have no plans to extend service to my house since there just weren't enough customers to be economically feasible. Both companies also told me that Metronet which is to my understanding is all fiber would be along soon. I was contacted by T Mobile about a year ago with an offer for a mobile hot spot internet service which I jumped on quickly. My previous internet service was the slowest DSL ever made, I went from a blazing 0.6 meg to 50 meg. It was life changing for me. According to T Mobile they only offered their internet if you lived within a certain distance from a tower. There is a tower within sight of my house, maybe a mile or so away.
> 
> Metronet is very actively building lines in my part of the state and seems like they always have help wanted ads for fiber splicers posted. I have never actually done any fiber optic work and wasn't aware of the fusion splicing.
> 
> Who knows, Elon Musk might just have the answer.


What I am talking about is not cellular. The 2 companies I referenced are operating what is called a WISP. Wireless Internet Service Provider. 
They buy bandwidth from a fiber provider, then distribute it all wirelessly. Between towers they use directional antennae that can go up to around 20 miles.
On the towers they use sector arrays that can then distribute in all directions. I think the towers have around a 10 mile effective range. They will then put a dish on the customer's building, connected to a router in their building. Anyone within line of sight to the tower is a potential customer. 
Both of these companies received CARES money to do build outs in underserved areas. The one company definitely was building out in the sticks!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

Your thinking is ahead of the curve for a lot of us older types. It's going to be like this and so much better?, faster? ...not sure, but it's going to be a lot different than plain old wifi in the next few decades what with LIFI right around the corner and 5G being just the tip of the burg for microcells. Quantum computing and light-based processors are going to need much fatter pipes, so to speak.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

J∑3 said:


> I am sure this topic has been discussed to death, but I'd still like to hear some input. I'm 19 years old, and I've decided to become an electrician. I'm in the process of applying for an apprenticeship at a local trade school, and I'm torn between inside wireman and telecom. Are there any perks to being one over the other. I've also heard that wiremen can just specialize in telecom work. Is that true?


This is a very misleading term used by trade schools. If they are not providing any job placement *from day one* they are not doing an apprenticeship. They are just providing entry training and want your money. We see many guys come on here thinking they will be electricians when done but without field experience it don't mean anything. This is not a learn classroom only trade it requires real life training on what you just learned, other wise you will not remember it.


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

My BiL works for a larger electrical contractor firm. Their non-power side (data, low-voltage, etc) is collectively known as the 'security' division, because that's the biggest chunk of the work in that field nowadays. They also support guys brought up in either field to advance into the other if they're keen and productive.

That said, I believe the electrical (inside wireman) route is the better way to start. 

As other guys have touched on - you apply for an apprenticeship through your *trades authority body* - not a tradeschool (they just want tuition money). One catch to this... some employers won't touch guys that don't have 9mos-2yrs pre-apprenticeship education. OTOH, if you have some labour experience and skills from other construction work, that is attractive on its own.


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## J∑3 (Aug 14, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> This is a very misleading term used by trade schools. If they are not providing any job placement *from day one* they are not doing an apprenticeship. They are just providing entry training and want your money. We see many guys come on here thinking they will be electricians when done but without field experience, it doesn't mean anything. This is not a learn classroom only trade it requires real-life training on what you just learned, otherwise you will not remember it.


This might sound a bit uneducated, but what's the difference between a trade school and an apprenticeship? I thought those terms were used interchangeably. At the place I'm applying at, we're supposed to work 40 hours a week and go to school 2 times a night.


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## J∑3 (Aug 14, 2021)

u2slow said:


> As other guys have touched on - you apply for an apprenticeship through your *trades authority body* - not a tradeschool (they just want tuition money). One catch to this... some employers won't touch guys that don't have 9mos-2yrs pre-apprenticeship education. OTOH, if you have some labour experience and skills from other construction work, that is attractive on its own.


Ahh, I just got the difference, I was mistakenly using apprenticeship and trade school as though they were equal. The place I'm applying definitely offers a legit apprenticeship as they aren't charging anything. Sorry for the added confusion.


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## tedanderson (Jan 31, 2021)

So many pros and cons on both sides. I'm a telecom guy and everyone on the electrical side wishes they had my job because our work is generally clean, it's not very labor intensive, and for the most part we're not subject to the elements of working outdoors. And if we have to work outdoors it's on fair weather days. But the pay is crappy in comparison. 

I got my license to play with high voltage simply because I got tired of being at the bottom end of the pay scale. Telecom and low voltage work is more intricate and requires a stronger sense of planning and troubleshooting.. and sometimes engineering. But the industry doesn't seem to think that what I do is important enough to pay higher than what it does. 

So don't get me wrong. I LOVE what I do and I enjoy having a skill that most people don't have but I really wish I made the money that the wiremen make.


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

Data sucks, go inside.


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## wattsgood1337 (Oct 9, 2021)

u2slow said:


> My BiL works for a larger electrical contractor firm. Their non-power side (data, low-voltage, etc) is collectively known as the 'security' division, because that's the biggest chunk of the work in that field nowadays. They also support guys brought up in either field to advance into the other if they're keen and productive.
> 
> That said, I believe the electrical (inside wireman) route is the better way to start.
> 
> As other guys have touched on - you apply for an apprenticeship through your *trades authority body* - not a tradeschool (they just want tuition money). One catch to this... some employers won't touch guys that don't have 9mos-2yrs pre-apprenticeship education. OTOH, if you have some labour experience and skills from other construction work, that is attractive on its own.


Hello, what do you mean by trades authority body, is that the same as union. and are the certifications you get through one union recognized nationally? Thank you


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

wattsgood1337 said:


> Hello, what do you mean by trades authority body, is that the same as union. and are the certifications you get through one union recognized nationally? Thank you


@u2slow is from Canada and responding from a Canadian perspective, in the States it's totally different.


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

wattsgood1337 said:


> Hello, what do you mean by trades authority body, is that the same as union. and are the certifications you get through one union recognized nationally? Thank you


A gov't branch that registers, oversees, and certifies apprentices. You work toward the same certification whether union or not. 





SkilledTradesBC


SkilledTradesBC leads BC’s skilled trades system. SkilledTradesBC manages credentials, apprenticeships, and standards, and promotes trades opportunities.




www.itabc.ca





I'm not sure what happens in the states or if it's the same in all the states.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

u2slow said:


> A gov't branch that registers, oversees, and certifies apprentices. You work toward the same certification whether union or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Each state has the authority to issue all trade licenses, and no it isnt the same from state to state. Some states will recognize some of the other states licenses, and that is it.


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## wattsgood1337 (Oct 9, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> Each state has the authority to issue all trade licenses, and no it isnt the same from state to state. Some states will recognize some of the other states licenses, and that is it.


How do you know which authority that is, do they have a database with this information. and can you get your apprenticeship through them directly. I am getting my information from the department of labor and industries. is this an accredited source


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

wattsgood1337 said:


> How do you know which authority that is, do they have a database with this information. and can you get your apprenticeship through them directly. I am getting my information from the department of labor and industries. is this an accredited source


In my state, Louisiana, the state government issues all licenses. I suggest a web search in your state because i dont know what your state is or its requirements I am reasonably certain that it will be an organized process and you will simply have to find it and do the research. Most likely the same group that issues licenses in your state will be the one to look into


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

If it's like my province (BC) the apprenticeship authority (all trades) has nothing to do with licensing.

These days, all the pertinent stuff should be available online, for your state.


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