# be careful in here



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I like the well-worn "KEEP OUT" painted on the floor.

How about some details?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Is that all still in service? I've only got one plant left that still uses rheostats to adjust excitation and I'm pushing like hell to get it all ripped out.

Very cool to look at; sucks to work on.

-John


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Where are the arc flash warning placards? How about a coordination study? :jester:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

This is still in operation in a pulp mill. It's controls for the turbine generators. We ran a conduit from the white cabinet in pic 2 to the panel behind the ladder in pic 4. We are adding relays to parallel the governor control. I soaped almost all 1974' of that triplex cable in pic 4 back in 95, when I was an apprentice. Actually parallel runs and 2 2" runs of GRC full of contols. When I get a chance, I'll take some pictures of a scarier room.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Where are the arc flash warning placards? How about a coordination study? :jester:


:shutup::shutup::whistling2:


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Great pics, thanks for sharing!!:thumbup:

Like I have said in the past in relation to some similar old gear in the Avalon Theatre on Catalina Island, none of the "new and improved" gear we install today is gonna last as long as this old stuff has.


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

Very Cool, and its clean in there too! Nice not to see stuff piled in, like its a spare staorage area.

There is more of this stuff around then most people realise- and it just keeps cooking along.

Now tell me, how is a guy in a bubble supposed to get a job working here?:laughing:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

That's very hazardous looking.. How do you lock that out before working in there? No cabinets for anything. Everything exposed..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> That's very hazardous looking.. How do you lock that out before working in there? No cabinets for anything. Everything exposed..



Looks like a big telaphone company service room..


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

nitro71 said:


> That's very hazardous looking.. How do you lock that out before working in there? No cabinets for anything. Everything exposed..


You open the gates on both ends


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> That's very hazardous looking.. How do you lock that out before working in there? No cabinets for anything. Everything exposed..


 


I see that little step stool in there. I bet money guys eat their lunch and talk on the phone while sitting on it.

And not ONE of them is wearing a suit or has gloves on.

You guys crack me up.:laughing:


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> You open the gates on both ends


 
Exactly.

Thats why I said it nice not to see boxes and wheelie carts everywhere. If it ever gets to be "run time", I dont want to be tripping over cleaning supplies and crap.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Wow what voltage is that running at?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

lefleuron said:


> I see that little step stool in there. I bet money guys eat their lunch and talk on the phone while sitting on it.
> 
> And not ONE of them is wearing a suit or has gloves on.
> 
> You guys crack me up.:laughing:


wanna bet?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

cdnelectrician said:


> Wow what voltage is that running at?



480Vac and less and 125Vdc


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

cdnelectrician said:


> Wow what voltage is that running at?


 Not the OP, but I'm gonna guess most of that is DC: 125V for the controls and closer to 200V for all those big rheostats.

Mix in some random 120VAC control power, and 600VAC generator power for those big conductors and stuff like that three-pole knife-switch on the right.

Not the type of place you want to sneeze.

-John


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> wanna bet?


 On which part, the lunch or the phone?

Maybe I couldn't get reception in there, but lunch is definitely on!:laughing:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

They keep that room pretty secure, they won't even let us open the the big T/G controls doors at the far end of pic 3 and 4, which is fine with me. I've seen those relays trip when a little caution and/or common sense wasn't used.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> 480Vac and less and 125Vdc


 Nuts, I was close. 

Do you know if those generators have always been 480V or did they have them rebuilt? I've never seen 480V equipment that old.

-John


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Big John said:


> Nuts, I was close.
> 
> Do you know if those generators have always been 480V or did they have them rebuilt? I've never seen 480V equipment that old.
> 
> -John


I'm not sure, but the mill was built back in the 1920's.


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> They keep that room pretty secure, they won't even let us open the the big T/G controls doors at the far end of pic 3 and 4, which is fine with me. I've seen those relays trip when a little caution and/or common sense wasn't used.


 
Thats the worst part of this stuff. It works well, but its old.

We have a control room door with a flashy new sticker that says "CAUTION!! fed from many sources"

And underneath in black marker it says "Dont slam this door, unless you want to go back in!":laughing:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Looks just like the paper mill I use to work in. 575 volt 3 ph and 500 volt DC, all open on both sides. Nice and easy access to everything. :thumbup:


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

I am waiting for the safety nazis, and bubble boys to explain how they would go about shutting all this down to enter the area......

Strange how they jump all over the Industrial guys with their ideas of "safety", but they are quiet when there are no outlets or ballests that can be easily isolated by a sharp 10 year old....:laughing::whistling2:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

I guess you could draped Vera-Shield down both sides


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Da-yum 

When I first started my apprenticeship I worked on a brand new turbine generator facility at a pulp mill. Two 15 mW steam turbines. If I remember correctly (I was a dumb greenhorn at the time) the turbine exciters were supplied from a neat little gray box a few feet in each dimension. I wish I could go back there and look around now that I'd probably have a better idea of what all the s**t is that I helped install!


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> I guess you could draped Vera-Shield down both sides


 
In another thread, I asked Big John what their blankets looked like, or if he had a link.

Our blankets are maybe 9 feet high, and about 12 feet long. They are black, and maybe 1 and 1/2 inch thick. I am guessing they weigh 150- 200 pounds each. We call them "blast blankets", but there is no name or markings on them at all.

I have never seen this "Vera-Shield" stuff, but does it sound like what I am describing?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

lefleuron said:


> In another thread, I asked Big John what their blankets looked like, or if he had a link....


 Sorry, buddy, I must've missed that.

I've seen what you describe, we don't use anything that fancy. Ours are just Salisbury insulating blankets.









I thought about pushing for the blast blankets, but my thinking (right or wrong) was that if an arc flash was really that much of a possibility I didn't want to rely on the blanket for protection.

When do you guys use the blast blankets?

-John


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

Big John said:


> Sorry, buddy, I must've missed that.
> 
> I've seen what you describe, we don't use anything that fancy. Ours are just Salisbury insulating blankets.
> 
> ...


 
John,

As seldom as humanly possible.:laughing:



We dont have set rules on when to use the blankets- its completely up to the guy doing the work.

I have used them twice, once when working in a bad 4160 sub, and once when working near a badly placed solvent pumping header.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

lefleuron said:


> In another thread, I asked Big John what their blankets looked like, or if he had a link.
> 
> Our blankets are maybe 9 feet high, and about 12 feet long. They are black, and maybe 1 and 1/2 inch thick. I am guessing they weigh 150- 200 pounds each. We call them "blast blankets", but there is no name or markings on them at all.
> 
> ...


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

http://www.highvoltagesupplies.com/store/product/clear-pvc-roll-blankets-class-1-1082.cfm#details


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

sparky970 said:


> http://www.highvoltagesupplies.com/store/product/clear-pvc-roll-blankets-class-1-1082.cfm#details


I love that stuff. 


We do overhauls of similar rooms, sometimes they are total gut and redos, sometimes just shut it down and fab enclosures around it all. Either way it's interesting.


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## T-Bart (Jun 24, 2011)

That is really cool looking stuff!

You guys actually work on that stuff while its energized? You guys must have a lot of schooling and training to do that I cant even recognise alot of that.

So what is the difference between and industrial electrician, and a commercial electrician? Or are they the same thing?


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Looks like a big telaphone company service room..


 Yea its just like the AT&T building down the road



Then again those guys REALLY are smarter than me so I shouldn't question them
Should I ?:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jhall.sparky said:


> Yea its just like the AT&T building down the road
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You never know do you...:laughing:


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

T-Bart said:


> That is really cool looking stuff!
> 
> You guys actually work on that stuff while its energized? You guys must have a lot of schooling and training to do that I cant even recognise a lot of that.
> 
> So what is the difference between and industrial electrician, and a commercial electrician? Or are they the same thing?


 

This thread is getting old, but I will try and answer your question.

Industrial electricians install, and work with (trouble shoot) many different systems. Everything from 4160 subs, through the 4-20mA signals. We work in plants having the latest and greatest robotic systems, and 200 yards away equipment that was built and has been maintained since the 1920s. Motors, drives, PLCs, micro-controllers all the way down to motor-gen sets and key-less tie breakers.

Commercial electricians do just what it says- commercial buildings. The service, the conduit, the lighting, the outlets, maybe elevators and other sub-systems. Think of a giant shopping mall, or hospital and all that goes into those buildings- that commercial.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

T-Bart said:


> So what is the difference between and industrial electrician, and a commercial electrician?


Nothing, just a different part of the industry with different skills and experiences. Some make industrial out to be the best  and way more complicated then it really is . Neither is better than the other.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

What are those round things in the pictures? They look like wheels with a big needle.


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## ilikepez (Mar 24, 2011)

They look like big rheostats. Some look conventional and the others seem to switch in big banks of resistors.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

kaboler said:


> What are those round things in the pictures? They look like wheels with a big needle.


It is le grand rheostats typically used on larger generator or Wound rotor motour { I will fill that antiqué SOB later } 



ilikepez said:


> They look like big rheostats. Some look conventional and the others seem to switch in big banks of resistors.


It is as I mention used on generator or WRM or some case DC motours as well{ can adjust the shunt or control series connection }

I have see simauir arrangement in one of the rubber manufactering plant many years ago and also got one oddball beast is Mercury Arc recfier that is pretty cool but if you crack open the panel of MAR you will get green colour so just a head up with it { that is a prescureder of SCR }

Merci,
Marc


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