# Keeping others out of Temp Panels



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I make custom-made covers for the panels.

An opening on the bottom allows access to the breakers.

Four circuits for 4 GFIs and a 50a 2-pole for a range recept. WP flip cover allows access to main if needed. 

Whole thing is just a sheet of steel cut. Cut to the same size and the panel, so there's no overlap. Drywallers can leave it in place & rotozip around it. I don't care if they get mudded or painted on the site. It keeps other trades from removing the cardboard everyone else uses to 'keep them out'. That cardboard ain't exactly the best idea, and once someone pulls it out, it gets tossed in the dumpster.

When not in use, I just pull the breakers off the bus bars and leave them wired to the receps. Undo the grounds and noodles, then it's all ready for the next job.

These are pix of one of the first ones I made. Later 'models' incorporate a piano hinge running horizontally just above the recepts that allow me to open the top portion of the cover to expose the panel guts so I can land HRs without pulling the whole cover off.

These covers keep the panels clean of mud, paint & dust. Keeps other trades' tootsies out. And looks good and professional on the site to boot!


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Nice! :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

As for Manuel and Julio doing things to/at the panel they're not qualified to do, solution is simple. No power. If they want electricity, they can go get a generator.

I have no problems shutting down temp power if crap like that happens (turning on circuits they have no business turning on, or opening the panel to hard-wire a cord). I've done it before, and I'll do it again. Open the main disco and install a #3 Master padlock.

Trimming an apartment building one time, we kept having a trim carpenter just start turning on breakers until the tripped one is reset and he has power to his saw again.

I told him if he touches another breaker, he'll find two things.... no power and a broken hand. Not more than half an hour later, there he was, flipping breakers on with no regard as to what they went to. "If my saw ain't spinnin, I ain't makin' money!" he cried. I asked him how much a dead electrician makes.

So down to the main I go. Boom. Off. Locked up. Told the crew (it was 2:30), "Let's go home early today, guys!"

GC next morning was *PO*d. I said the trim carpenter has absolutely no business turning breakers on. If he trips a breaker, he is to get ahold of me, or plug into another outlet. It's that simple. We've got guys in there grabbing these wires all day long putting is switches, receptacles, lights, etc.

Then I realized GC was mad at the trimmer, not me. Told him if it happens again, he's off the job for good.


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## jculber (Apr 22, 2008)

Maybe I will bring up that idea to the boss Monday morning. Would definately have to add more GFCI's than that but the basic idea would be the same.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jculber said:


> Maybe I will bring up that idea to the boss Monday morning. Would definately have to add more GFCI's than that but the basic idea would be the same.


One hint: A plasma cutter.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> As for Manuel and Julio doing things to/at the panel they're not qualified to do, solution is simple. No power. If they want electricity, they can go get a generator.
> 
> I have no problems shutting down temp power if crap like that happens (turning on circuits they have no business turning on, or opening the panel to hard-wire a cord). I've done it before, and I'll do it again. Open the main disco and install a #3 Master padlock.
> 
> ...


Should have thrown him off then. Too stupid to set foot on any job site.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

That is one really great idea. Well done.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

My battle was with hard wood floor installers. 
They would try to run 2 saws and 2 compressors off one circuit, which didn't work. So they made a cord pigtail by chopping off the female end of a cord, and attaching alligator clips. Hook it right to the bus of the panel, sometimes even the main lugs.
I found them with the electrical tape on the splices melting.
Of course, replacing a panel cover when they were done was out of the question.
I would confiscate these whenever I found one hooked up, and tell the GC. Had several crews banned from this builder's sites - _all_ of them.
Finally, the builder agreed to pay for more temp outlets.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> Should have thrown him off then. Too stupid to set foot on any job site.


I'm just an EC. I don't have that authority to pitch someone overboard. But I _do_ have authority over the electrical panels...


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I'm just an EC. I don't have that authority to pitch someone overboard. But I _do_ have authority over the electrical panels...


You always have the ability to do as much as you are comfortable dealing with (cops/lawsuits/etc). I have only been to court once and I would do it all the same way.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> You always have the ability to do as much as you are comfortable dealing with (cops/lawsuits/etc). I have only been to court once and I would do it all the same way.


CCW aside, I really don't want to pull some iron out on someone while on the job site.....:no:


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I make custom-made covers for the panels.
> 
> An opening on the bottom allows access to the breakers.
> 
> ...


Those panels are beautifull!


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

480sparky said:


> CCW aside, I really don't want to pull some iron out on someone while on the job site.....:no:


I reserve it as an option though!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

iaov said:


> I reserve it as an option though!


As do I. Some people are alive today solely due to the fact that it's against the law to kill them.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

480sparky said:


> As do I. Some people are alive today solely due to the fact that it's against the law to kill them.


God if that isn't gospel truth.


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## sparkysteve (Jan 23, 2007)

I recently caught head framer re-wiring gfi breakers to regualar breakers in a temp service because "it wastes time when his guys drag a cord through a puddle, trip it, and have to reset it" He was using his generator after I told him to find his own power. We also have one twist-lock outlet on each temp service too, which I have a homemade adapter for so there is always a circuit for just us to use. Call me greedy I guess.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

sparkysteve said:


> I recently caught head framer re-wiring gfi breakers to regualar breakers in a temp service because "it wastes time when his guys drag a cord through a puddle, trip it, and have to reset it" He was using his generator after I told him to find his own power. We also have one twist-lock outlet on each temp service too, which I have a homemade adapter for so there is always a circuit for just us to use. Call me greedy I guess.


How tempted were you to break his fingers????


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

sparkysteve said:


> I recently caught head framer re-wiring gfi breakers to regualar breakers in a temp service because "it wastes time when his guys drag a cord through a puddle, trip it, and have to reset it"



I wonder how much time would be "wasted" when someone gets electrocuted from those damaged cords.

Stupid moron. He should be immediately escorted off site.

There should be an IQ test given before _*ANYONE*_ is permitted on a job site.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I wonder how much time would be "wasted" when someone gets electrocuted from those damaged cords.
> 
> Stupid moron. He should be immediately escorted off site.
> 
> There should be an IQ test given before _*ANYONE*_ is permitted on a job site.


You can't test them, there wouldn't be anymore English speaking hammer jockey's on site. We would be stuck with the short tanned ones that no habla. Too bad the Darwin factor didn't work at a faster rate.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> You can't test them, there wouldn't be anymore English speaking hammer jockey's on site. We would be stuck with the short tanned ones that no habla. Too bad the Darwin factor didn't work at a faster rate.


I don't mind him killing himself (unless I do it 1st) but he is endangering the guys that work under him.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I don't mind him killing himself (unless I do it 1st) but he is endangering the guys that work under him.


In that situation I would have had to leave the job before the urge to go Marine took control and I killed the guy.

The lack of brain content with guys like that floors me sometimes. We carry those short GFI three ways on the trucks and use them when ever we run cords on a job site, I over heard one of our guys at the shop last week asking if the safety guy would really write him up if they didn't use the GFI, his had been tripping the morning before on a metal roof deck that was wet. DUH, what was he thinking?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

> jculber said:
> 
> 
> > According to OSHA the panels must be readily accessible at all times (so no locking them out). quote]
> ...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If the panels must be accessible, how does locking them make them accessible?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

480sparky said:


> If the panels must be accessible, how does locking them make them accessible?


the greater question is; why must they be accessable.

My understanding is for the fact if the need to turn off a circuit, if the panel is locked, it is not possible and therefore actually may cause a dangerous situation. If there is a disco, it will provide the same ability to disconnect the power therefore removing any dangerous situation.

In other words, it isn't a matter of the breakers in general being accessable but being able to disconnect the power if needed. The disco would allow that so why would this not be acceptable.


btw; Not that this proves my point but does tend to support it; I was working a new school build and had an OSHA inspector on the job every day. all day. Panels were locked to prevent tampering and there was never any problems with this, and believe me, she was a PITA. She actually stood by and watched a guy drive over an extension cord with a scissor lift right before she wrote a citation for it. She was in a position to prevent the possible dangerous situation from ever existing yet she failed to act only to cite for the illegal action. What a b.

there were main panels in the same room that would turn off all of the circuits within each untilty room which would be paramount to my suggestion of using a main but seperate disco.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

But would it also be possible to create a greater hazard by shutting everything down? Take a large commercial project that has temp receps and lights from one panel. If you lock the panel, but leave a diconnect available, what happens when the whole project goes completely dark when someone turns off the disco? You could also turn off saws & other machines that may be hazardous when power is restored.... Remember the scene with the drop cords in _The Money Pit_?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

480sparky said:


> But would it also be possible to create a greater hazard by shutting everything down? Take a large commercial project that has temp receps and lights from one panel. If you lock the panel, but leave a diconnect available, what happens when the whole project goes completely dark when someone turns off the disco? You could also turn off saws & other machines that may be hazardous when power is restored.... Remember the scene with the drop cords in _The Money Pit_?


what happens when lightning strikes? Power is out and then can come back on with no action by onsite personel. Maybe the OSHA folks need to have a talk with God.:whistling2:

You can have the exact same situation BECAUSE a panel is not locked as well so using your argument, you should lock the panel. With the yahoos running around flipping breakers, it is very common for them to de-energize an active piece of equipment and then turn it right back on. Now THAT is dangerous.

if you have a main, there is less likelyhood that anybody will de-energize the complete system and turn it back on without intelligent intervention (electricians).

I would like to know the real answer to this but I suspect the answer is not finite. Even an OSHA instructor told us the bottom line is, regardless what he taught us, if the inspector in the field walked out and cited us for doing it the way the instructor told us to do something, the cite is still legit because the AHJ (inspector on site) has that authority.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nap said:


> if you have a main, there is less likelyhood that anybody will de-energize the complete system and turn it back on without intelligent intervention (electricians).


If some yahoo shuts the main off, they certainly have enough brain cells to figure out how to turn it back on.



nap said:


> I would like to know the real answer to this but I suspect the answer is not finite. Even an OSHA instructor told us the bottom line is, regardless what he taught us, if the inspector in the field walked out and cited us for doing it the way the instructor told us to do something, the cite is still legit because the AHJ (inspector on site) has that authority.


Truth is, even if you do it the way an OSHA inspector says to, the next OSHA inspector can cite you for it. Been there, done that.



nap said:


> Maybe the OSHA folks need to have a talk with God.:whistling2:


They already have.... they called Him into their office back in '96 and had a little chat..... :laughing:


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

> =480sparky;31471]If some yahoo shuts the main off, they certainly have enough brain cells to figure out how to turn it back on.


my inference was that they would typically not turn it off since most of them do understand that when they pop a breaker, it is one of the little ones.




> Truth is, even if you do it the way an OSHA inspector says to, the next OSHA inspector can cite you for it. Been there, done that.


I can believe it.





> They already have.... they called Him into their office back in '96 and had a little chat..... :laughing:


I'm betting any fines imposed were waived.


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## JRent (Jul 1, 2008)

one time i was under a building and this flooring guy starting flipping breakers while i was splicing some wires, so when he got to the circuit i was working on he flipped it on and there was a big boom 6inches from my face, when 2 hots touched the metal box. my boss heard me yelling "who the f**k is turning breakers" and almost strangled the guy...i almost lost my eyebrows


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