# Anti-shorts



## ~48~ (Jul 24, 2016)

I'm sure this is brought up frequently, but anti-shorts are not required for any MC, unless the wire manufacturer has had their product tested that way for their listing. Is that actually the case for every MC? Are we talking about a 110.3(B) issue? Because it doesn't say anywhere in 330 you need anti-shorts.

Yes yes, use them anyways. Even though they suck and don't do a good job at what they're meant to do.. the ONLY bushing in existence that doesn't have a way to stay put somehow? Greeeaaat.

I posed this question to a code guru and he looked pretty indignant when I called him out on this..


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

They are not required by any code I have ever heard of but most guys still use them.


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

personally i dont like shorts either, but the bushings are needed with the right fittings


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

~48~ said:


> I'm sure this is brought up frequently, but anti-shorts are not required for any MC, unless the wire manufacturer has had their product tested that way for their listing. Is that actually the case for every MC? Are we talking about a 110.3(B) issue? Because it doesn't say anywhere in 330 you need anti-shorts.
> 
> Yes yes, use them anyways. Even though they suck and don't do a good job at what they're meant to do..the ONLY bushing in existence that doesn't have a way to stay put somehow? Greeeaaat
> 
> I posed this question to a code guru and he looked pretty indignant when I called him out on this..


Don't cut the plastic wrap off before installing the red head. Slide on the red over the plastic wrap, and then take the wrap and pull it back towards the metal sheath. Slide on the mc cable connector and tighten screw(s). Now your redhead is held in place inside the connector. Try doing it so that there will still be a bonding connection to the metal sheath by the connector, you can accomplish it really easy. Now cut off excess plastic wrap.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

"And that folks was the Macmikeman tech tip of the day." Ya slipping brudda!


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> Don't cut the plastic wrap off before installing the red head. Slide on the red over the plastic wrap, and then take the wrap and pull it back towards the metal sheath. Slide on the mc cable connector and tighten screw(s). Now your redhead is held in place inside the connector. Try doing it so that there will still be a bonding connection to the metal sheath by the connector, you can accomplish it really easy. Now cut off excess plastic wrap.


I HAVE to quote you. :thumbsup:

:laughing:


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> "And that folks was the Macmikeman tech tip of the day." Ya slipping brudda!


It's called ''Mactip Of The Day!'' and that one would be a repeat. I only title em once, but I might say em twice..............


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> It's called ''Mactip Of The Day!'' and that one would be a repeat. I only title em once, but I might say em twice..............


It's all in the small details, I wasn't aware of these.


----------



## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

~48~ said:


> Is that actually the case for every MC? Are we talking about a 110.3(B) issue? Because it doesn't say anywhere in 330 you need anti-shorts.


Read 330.40 and compare it to the wording in 320.40.

Then there is this



> ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT
> BULLETIN
> No. 90
> 
> ...


 Roger


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Don't cut the plastic wrap off before installing the red head. Slide on the red over the plastic wrap, and then take the wrap and pull it back towards the metal sheath. Slide on the mc cable connector and tighten screw(s). Now your redhead is held in place inside the connector. Try doing it so that there will still be a bonding connection to the metal sheath by the connector, you can accomplish it really easy. Now cut off excess plastic wrap.


Nice but, the MC jacket isn't considered to be any kind of bond.
I use the snap on fittings or any fitting with its own bushing.
The little bag of red heads that come with the MC goes straight into the trash. If I catch someone trying to use them with fittings that already have bushings, they get to be the first lay off.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Suncoast Power said:


> *Nice but, the MC jacket isn't considered to be any kind of bond.*
> I use the snap on fittings or any fitting with its own bushing.
> The little bag of red heads that come with the MC goes straight into the trash. If I catch someone trying to use them with fittings that already have bushings, they get to be the first lay off.


It's needs to be bonded.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Also, having to take out a cutting tool to cut the plastic is a time waster. Cut the plastic by pulling it against the cut edge of the metal sheath, then install the red head and connector.


----------



## Electrozappo (Apr 8, 2014)

Ah! The "anti short" I hate those things. 
And that is a misleading name. They don't prevent a short. I call them Red Devils 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Also, having to take out a cutting tool to cut the plastic is a time waster. Cut the plastic by pulling it against the cut edge of the metal sheath, then install the red head and connector.


Seems second nature to the guys I've always worked with and around.


----------



## ~48~ (Jul 24, 2016)

There isn't a need to bond MC unless it's over 250 volts, in which case the connector w/ locknut usually accomplishes that. For lower voltages, somehow those 3 tiny teeth in a 38AST act as a bond in the case of the cable becoming energized, I'm assuming.

I can't recall where it says all metal raceways need to have a path to ground, now that I think about it. But I know it does say that somewhere.

Yes, the insulated throat of the connector is why the anti-shorts aren't needed. I knew someone would straighten me out. They do fall out sometimes. Not like how with EMT connectors they do, but sometimes.

Thanks again folks.


----------



## UncleBill (Oct 23, 2014)

*Red insert*

As much as I hate MC I have a rule when I have to use that conforms to the local municipality. If the connector has a red throat/insert no Anti-short, as in the AST38 connectors, the snap on type. For a two-screw connector, which I use for cut-in boxes, I use an anti-short. 

You always need to know your local requirements because most Inspectors I deal with with randomly look for that red throat as it is required to have some protection here.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

UncleBill said:


> As much as I hate MC I have a rule when I have to use that conforms to the local municipality. If the connector has a red throat/insert no Anti-short, as in the AST38 connectors, the snap on type. For a two-screw connector, which I use for cut-in boxes, I use an anti-short.
> 
> You always need to know your local requirements because most Inspectors I deal with with randomly look for that red throat as it is required to have some protection here.


I tell the inspector that I am installing it according to the manufactures instructions. If he wants something more than that, he needs to work out with the owner who is going to pay us for the fantasy work.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So this is a listing issue, I.E. ~the _'fitting'_ has to be listed >*OR*< we use a redhead, do i have that right?

~CS~


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

With 2-screw connectors and for boxes with mc clamps, I use redheads. I prefer using snap-in connectors like the AST-38s, but if I don't order the material for a job I end up with 2-screws and redheads.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

We pretty much use the Arlington connectors and no red heads. We also use a mc cutter instead of ***** as I believe it makes a much less sharp cut. 
If I had my way we would outlaw MC in general and use EMT and flex, but I am not getting my way ever.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> We pretty much use the Arlington connectors and no red heads. We also use a mc cutter instead of ***** as I believe it makes a much less sharp cut.
> If I had my way we would outlaw MC in general and use EMT and flex, but I am not getting my way ever.


I'm glad you aren't getting your way. MC is awesome.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

~48~ said:


> I'm sure this is brought up frequently, but anti-shorts are not required for any MC, unless the wire manufacturer has had their product tested that way for their listing. Is that actually the case for every MC? Are we talking about a 110.3(B) issue? Because it doesn't say anywhere in 330 you need anti-shorts.
> 
> Yes yes, use them anyways.* Even though they suck and don't do a good job at what they're meant to do.. the ONLY bushing in existence that doesn't have a way to stay put somehow?* Greeeaaat.
> 
> I posed this question to a code guru and he looked pretty indignant when I called him out on this..


*Listed fittings for MC actually have elements that hold the red hat in place. So they actually can't fall out. Further, listed fittings will have a portal such that any inspector can SEE that the red hat is in place.*

How long have you been at this game ?

I can't recall the last time a red hat fell out of the MC I was hooking up.

You do want to use the correct size of red hat, BTW. 

Out here, our AHJ flatly insist upon red hats and roto-splits. 

***** => red tag the whole job. Yup. 

It all has to come out. Then you get inspected. Then you start over.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

yeah the MC box cons have a 'view port' , but many redheads also have a 'tail' for the same purpose

~CS~


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

telsa said:


> Out here, our AHJ flatly insist upon red hats and roto-splits.


Wait till they find out that red heads cause cancer, but only in California. 

If the reel comes with them I will give an attempt to use them. If they fall out I don't sweat it. Good thing my boss buys only buys MC AP and in barrels. I have never seen the barrels come with red heads. Also make sure you don't get the MC AP with the paper around the conductors. Major time waster.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

telsa said:


> *Listed fittings for MC actually have elements that hold the red hat in place. So they actually can't fall out. Further, listed fittings will have a portal such that any inspector can SEE that the red hat is in place.*
> 
> How long have you been at this game ?
> 
> ...


Only globalists use rotosplits.


----------



## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

telsa said:


> *Listed fittings for MC actually have elements that hold the red hat in place. So they actually can't fall out. Further, listed fittings will have a portal such that any inspector can SEE that the red hat is in place.*
> 
> How long have you been at this game ?
> 
> ...



How can he tell the difference?

Because of the half cut ring below where the MC actually separated?

When I used to use a rotosplit I got in the habit of tearing that half cut ring the rest of the way off because I didn't like it.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Redheads
Red Eyes
Anti-shorts

any more names?

Have not seen one in 25 years


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

anti-shorts is a bad name for them IMO, since it confuses them with
the famous Yonkers anti-shorts law.

http://einsteinsrefrigerator.com/wordpress/yonkers-anti-shorts-law/


----------



## UncleBill (Oct 23, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> So this is a listing issue, I.E. ~the _'fitting'_ has to be listed >*OR*< we use a redhead, do i have that right?
> 
> ~CS~


Yes. That's the crux of it. If the connector has a bushing then that is your anti-short, if not you add one


----------



## UncleBill (Oct 23, 2014)

brian john said:


> Redheads
> Red Eyes
> Anti-shorts
> 
> ...


I have always called them Anti's Panties


----------



## UncleBill (Oct 23, 2014)

Suncoast Power said:


> I tell the inspector that I am installing it according to the manufactures instructions. If he wants something more than that, he needs to work out with the owner who is going to pay us for the fantasy work.


I dig what you're saying and it's kind of what I was getting at. It's always about UL listings with this type of thing, which is why I said that you look for the red throat. I will use them when that red bushing isn't present because I prefer to limit problems down the road. I have seen guys get called out by an inspector and they weren't able to show the listing because they threw out the box or something. Typically, as I stated, I always use them when i have two screw connectors. 

I prefer to do things in the way I would want it down if I was the customer, and I do things above the minimum requirement per the NEC, to some degree. I see a lot of electricians who won't go more than the code allows which is not necessarily right. The NEC is about the bare minimal you are allowed to do, not the 'Standard' to build by.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

My wiring will outlast the crappy shot together with nail guns and cheap simpson ties structure every time. 

Last summer I relocated some wiring at a house where several decks were originally installed sitting on TJI joists that cantilevered out from under the house. They literally melted after a few years of constant rain coming down, since they were back in the jungle in Manoa Valley. There seems to be a bit of non compliant building happening from time to time.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Suncoast Power said:


> Nice but, the MC jacket isn't considered to be any kind of bond.
> I use the snap on fittings or any fitting with its own bushing.
> The little bag of red heads that come with the MC goes straight into the trash. If I catch someone trying to use them with fittings that already have bushings, they get to be the first lay off.


Wow. If I had to work for you, I would probably sit it the break table making fixture whips with the box of anti shorts I just called in from the supply house. Our inspector likes to see us put the witches hats in mc cuts. You are a bit over the top.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

TGGT said:


> Only globalists use rotosplits.


Or people trying to do a quality job.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Or people trying to do a quality job.


I've never had a problem snipping with ***** or twisting with lineman pliers.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Just like the builtin that Roger posted, the insulated throat has nothing to do with it. As long as the connector or clamp is listed, it doesn't need an anti short. It would be real hard to find a clamp or connector not listed for aluminum jacketed MC. The only one I can think of is the single screw Bx connector that would crush the jacket and pinch the wires.


----------



## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

I didn't read every single comment, but I scanned through most. 

My understanding about the anti short requirement had to do with the design of the connector, but not exactly the built in bushing. More because the listed connectors have a means built in to keep the conductors centered in the cable jacket. Think of the ring built into the inner lip of the connector, the one you will sometimes see people remove to fit a 10/4 cable in instead of getting the right size connector. 

The teardrop, set screw connectors for AC/BX don't have this feature and require an anti short (as well as being listed for the correct cable type)

This came to light when the multi listed connectors came about, the two screw ones that could do MC or Romex. They looked like a regular Romex connector with the only difference being the built in centering means.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Cl906um said:


> Wow. If I had to work for you, I would probably sit it the break table making fixture whips with the box of anti shorts I just called in from the supply house. Our inspector likes to see us put the witches hats in mc cuts. You are a bit over the top.


Seriously, I would tell the inspector to want in one hand and shlt in the other one and see which one fills up first.
If I'm paying extra for AST fittings or any fitting that has a red bushing inside, that little bag of red things that comes with the MC is going in the trash.
I've seen guys try to put those on and then try to put on an AST, there isn't room for that, it's not required on MC fittings and that would be about as far as the conversation would go if I was signing paychecks.

I had an inspector yesterday that had been out of the trade for so long, he thought I could just walk into Graybar and buy a 400 amp panelboard with all of the breakers. :blink:


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Suncoast Power said:


> Seriously, I would tell the inspector to want in one hand and shlt in the other one and see which one fills up first.
> If I'm paying extra for AST fittings or any fitting that has a red bushing inside, that little bag of red things that comes with the MC is going in the trash.
> I've seen guys try to put those on and then try to put on an AST, there isn't room for that, it's not required on MC fittings and that would be about as far as the conversation would go if I was signing paychecks.
> 
> I had an inspector yesterday that had been out of the trade for so long, he thought I could just walk into Graybar and buy a 400 amp panelboard with all of the breakers. :blink:


You can get an I line panel amazingly fast for a time and material job built when you throw enough money at them. We got two in a weeks notice. Not bad. I use the anti shorts in the two screw fittings, but usually have the the 38ast style with the thread and locknut now. They are great for when you have to fish into a box. No hang ups on insulation like the screws do.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Cl906um said:


> You can get an I line panel amazingly fast for a time and material job built when you throw enough money at them.



What? Yeah maybe the tub. You can throw all the money in the world at your wholesaler but it's probably not going to produce you an I-line interior of the exact specifications you need on the day you walk in there. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fishbulb (Jun 9, 2016)

cabletie said:


> Wait till they find out that red heads cause cancer, but only in California.


After reading this I was curious so I looked for a Proposition 65 warning on the packages I had on hand. I picked up one opened bag by the wrong end and ended up dumping them all out onto the floor. Do you feel bad? You should feel bad.

No cancer warning on any of them, in case anyone was worried. Everyone can sleep a little easier knowing that.

But for the first time I looked closely at the package labels. Each was UL/CSA listed either for "Armored Cable and Flexible Metal Conduit" or "Armored Cable" only. No mention of MC anywhere. So not only are they not required for MC, wouldn't their use be a technical violation of their product listing?


----------

