# Test Circuits before sheetrock???



## Dierte (May 12, 2009)

Im pretty sure cletis devices out and energizes everything before sheetrock


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## arni19 (Nov 20, 2009)

Go in after plumbers and tin wackers or back charge for fixes.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I tie 'em all together and megger 'em. If the whole bundle fails, I start breaking them down until I find the offending circuit.


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## Mwchavis (Jan 11, 2012)

480sparky said:


> I tie 'em all together and megger 'em. If the whole bundle fails, I start breaking them down until I find the offending circuit.




What's a megger??


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Mwchavis said:


> What's a megger??


Megohmeter. They're awesome.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I never test the circuits.. I'm not getting paid for it so why bother..

If something gets damaged.. it becomes a billable repair..

Once you start cutting open walls.. the builder or GC will get the message and talk to the other trades in a really nice voice.. :laughing:


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## Mwchavis (Jan 11, 2012)

What are some of the pros of a mega ohm meter????


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## Mwchavis (Jan 11, 2012)

erics37 said:


> Megohmeter. They're awesome.


What's the benefit of it??


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## Arc'n'Spark (Jul 21, 2011)

It tests the condition/quality of the insulation. Similar to " ohming them out" with a standard DMM, but gives a more accurate result because you put 1000 VDC across it.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Mwchavis said:


> What's the benefit of it??


Apprentices get meggered for the entertainment of the site, haha.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I loop my wiring thru the receptacles, if I feel the contractor is an azz I'll tie the feeds thru the switches and energize so it becomes apparent when they break something. It helps to temp it off the temp outlet circuit while doing this.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I never test the circuits.. I'm not getting paid for it so why bother..


You are getting paid for being a professional, that means checking to see if your installation is safe.:blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Zog said:


> You are getting paid for being a professional, that means checking to see if your installation is safe.:blink:


I installed my wiring in a safe professional manner.. it is called rough wiring for a reason..

You must not wire many houses.. :no::no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Zog said:


> You are getting paid for being a professional, that means checking to see if your installation is safe.:blink:


Zog.. you also took that sentence out of context.. you make it sound like I don't test anything..

Part of the finishing process is testing every item after all devices are installed..


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

i don't test before rock. The only problem i ever had was at my own home. 3 wire was bare for about 2 foot inside the other sheath. Ceiling didn't work. I would back charge the plumbers.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> I installed my wiring in a safe professional manner.. it is called rough wiring for a reason..
> 
> You must not wire many houses.. :no::no:



Must be nice to never find an issue with your wiring until the house is finished and the cause can be billed to someone else.

The rest of us live in the real world. We make mistakes and would rather catch & correct them with the smallest headache possible.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I do problably ten new home a year and I have never power checked my wiring before drywall. It would take more time to do that than fix the one out of twenty that has a broken wire. Plus around here if a plumber runs a screw though a wire chances are he would tell me.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

The benefit of testing before the walls are rocked is that you know 100% that if a problem pops up later, it wasn't something you did.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

If it is not too much work I will energize everything before leaving it to other clowns to hack up, although I got my azz chewed a couple times for leaving 277 ckts hot at the switches. I've done stores with hard lids and if possible I will light all the ckts up and even snap a couple pics with a few bulbs showing so I have evidence. backcharges for that stuff are bad money and it helps to have proof, even if one of the trades is nothing but a bunch of clowns. (it's also much easier/quicker to change out the ballasts if you get a few bad ones)


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

During the rough.. I make up all my splices and bend hooks for the devices..

Going back before the drywall is another trip I am not getting paid to do..

Those of you who like working for free must must enjoy it.. I don't..:no::no:

Since when does the electrician have to hold the hands of all the other trades on a job.. :blink::blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Must be nice to never find an issue with your wiring until the house is finished and the cause can be billed to someone else.
> 
> The rest of us live in the real world. We make mistakes and would rather catch & correct them with the smallest headache possible.


Sorry.. but I don't make mistakes wiring new houses.. :no::no::no:

I do live in the real world and double check my jobs before I leave at the end of the day..


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> Sorry.. but I don't make mistakes wiring new houses.. :no::no::no:
> 
> I do live in the real world and double check my jobs before I leave at the end of the day..


Why do you need half a dozen posts defending your position when it only takes one to say, "I don't own or know how to use a megger"


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

B4T said:


> I installed my wiring in a safe professional manner.. it is called rough wiring for a reason..
> 
> You must not wire many houses.. :no::no:


Wiring houses must be rough with all that cookie cutter work bores the hell outta me. I'll core through concrete floors in high-rises before I friggin start putting little holes in wood studs and having to nail plate them. Infact I'd rather hammer drill into a concrete ceiling to place anchors. Infact I'd rather run MC all day bare handed than touch a roll of fing romex...I guess I'm a hardcore commercial electrician i just found this out from this rant.


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

B4T said:


> During the rough.. I make up all my splices and bend hooks for the devices..
> 
> Going back before the drywall is another trip I am not getting paid to do..
> 
> ...


You don't hold hands you communicate and usually help each other out and not be a complete **** unless neccessary, usually the hvac guys kinda work hand in hand with us on jobs.


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

Mwchavis said:


> I had a plumber put a screw in one of my NM wires today!!!!! Found out after the Sheetrock was up!!! Think I'm gonna start testing all
> My circuits before the Sheetrock goes up... Any suggestions on an easy or solid way to do this economically????


omg! you know this happens quite often right? since you do so many of these houses you should know what's on what, start flipping the breakers whichever one trips there's you're offending circuit. Aslong as the sheetrock isn't painted I don't see it being that bad economically. Why you wouldn't test your circuits is beyond me, what if you got a bad splice in a hi-hat or something of the sort?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Electrician343 said:


> Wiring houses must be rough with all that cookie cutter work bores the hell outta me. I'll core through concrete floors in high-rises before I friggin start putting little holes in wood studs and having to nail plate them. Infact I'd rather hammer drill into a concrete ceiling to place anchors. Infact I'd rather run MC all day bare handed than touch a roll of fing romex...I guess I'm a hardcore commercial electrician i just found this out from this rant.


Wow, your a "commercial" electrician! You must be really smart.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Sorry.. but I don't make mistakes wiring new houses.. :no::no::no:


Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the perfect electrician. :laughing::laughing:


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Electrician343 said:


> you communicate and usually help each other out and not be a complete **** unless neccessary,


Pot, meet Kettle.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I wired an addition last year. what a sweet little vacation. just me and my cup of coffee, no bunch of monkees running around all on top of each other. no looming deadline making normal morons act like complete psycho-tards. no aching feet from walking on concrete all day. no mc oil on my hands. I wouldn't mind doing that for a living.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Variety is good. A little mc slime, some romex the next day. Sitting outside waiting for a storm cell to pass while my hole fills up with rain again. Finally got the megger readings I wanted. Oh well, could be up in an attic. Listening to some pandora radio in the meantime. Need a pump.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Speaking of testing houses before the sheetrock is up, I sometimes test for missing wire runs. On big houses where there is a bunch of lights with multiple switch runs and lots of three ways and four ways. I'd rather be sure ahead of the rock than have to deal with either figuring out a way to save my butt afterward, or worse, start cutting finished sheetrock out to run another nm cable from someplace to someplace. My method- make up boxes first, (I don't pigtail hots or neuts, no need with this test method) , then before making up the panel completely is to tone test all the lighting circuits. Tone tester hooked up between ground conductor and neutral at panel before panel wires landed.
Take the wand out for a walk around the house. You will hear (detect) the places where the circuit is complete, and not hear where you missed something like maybe at a switch box that didn't get tied into the branch circuit properly. This has saved my butt once in a while I admit it. Usually if I am having to rush a job for whatever reason is where I get any problem leaving out a run, and my test works really good to not have that happen.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

It's all about economics.

Testing everthing all the time will cost more than it saves. On some small jobs where things can be easily energized, I try to energize everthing and do a quick test. On a whole house wire, no way. 

If you do things to code and in order (plumbing/HVAC should be before elec), you will be covered and get paid to troubleshoot and repair any screw damage.




> The benefit of testing before the walls are rocked is that you know 100% that if a problem pops up later, it wasn't something you did.


You will (probably) find out as soon as you troubleshoot it  It's got to be repaired no matter who's fault it was. I just assume I did the installation properly. If I screwed the pooch, oh well. It wouldn't be the first or last time. If someone else did the damage, I will at least get paid.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the perfect electrician. :laughing::laughing:


I never knew wiring a new house was such a challenge for you.. poor guy.. 

There is a slim margin of profit to begin with and you are making extra trips to check to make sure the wiring is good.. :no::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> I never knew wiring a new house was such a challenge for you.. poor guy..
> 
> There is a slim margin of profit to begin with and you are making extra trips to check to make sure the wiring is good.. :no::laughing:



Most of us are smart enough to bring the megger with us when we rough in a house. When we're done taking out the drill, ladder, cords and leftover Carlon blue nail-on boxes out to the truck, we go back in with the megger.

We're not so dumb we need to back to the shop and get it.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Most of us are smart enough to bring the megger with us when we rough in a house. When we're done taking out the drill, ladder, cords and leftover Carlon blue nail-on boxes out to the truck, we go back in with the megger.
> 
> We're not so dumb we need to back to the shop and get it.


 
SO you make up and safe off all the feed thru receps and switch legs ?

Have you ever found an issue that you caused?

Seems like a waste of time for normal installations and it doesn't tell you the whole story like, if you left out a jumper or made something up wrong.


My theory/practice is to do one circuit at a time (not jump around and forget to feed something) and make sure I don't leave any cabling too exposed.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

220/221 said:


> SO you make up and safe off all the feed thru receps and switch legs ?
> 
> Have you ever found an issue that you caused?
> 
> ...


All my boxes are 100% made-up during rough-in. So I can megger the circuits up to any switches, Line-Load GFCIs, etc. For that, I'll wirenut the wires together.

When I meg everything, I'll land all my grounds on the bar, but leave the neutrals off. I tie all the hots together and all the neutrals together and megger the whole shebang. If the test fails, I start dividing the circuits down until I find the offending circuit.

Once I find the circuit, I'll start hunting down the cause.

Yes, I've effed up a time or two. Usually when stripping the sheath, but sometimes I'll find a hot that's been stripped back too far and is against the ground wire or even the metal box.

Since I use an Arrow T-75 stapler, I have found a couple times where my staple has penetrated the wire. Despite those here who will say otherwise, I've never claimed to be perfect.

I record the final results in my daily log so if it ever becomes a point of contention, I have some proof that my installation was fine when I left the job.


It's kinda hard to 'not leave cable "too exposed"' when drywallers will use the NM running perpendicular through the studs to slide the sheets of drywall across...... or the plumber uses a box as a quick step up to glue that PVC joint he missed last week......

Upon returning for trim, I megger out all the circuits again to see if there was any damage during my absence. If I find an issue, again, it gets recorded in my daily log for future reference. Meggering again at trim goes much quicker since all my wires are stripped and prepped at this point. If there were no issues found at rough-in, and no damage has incurred since, the entire test takes what?.......... a whole minute? All the neutrals are still tied together, as well as all the hots tied together.


If B4T doesn't want to charge for doing this, that's fine with me. But I _DO _charge for it, so I'm not out anything. Nor to I take extra trips to the job site for these tests. I do them as a matter of SOP while I'm already there.



Fact is, megging my work is one of my selling points. I feel it puts me a step above all those who are too cheap to buy a mater or are too lazy to use it.


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Must be nice to never find an issue with your wiring until the house is finished and the cause can be billed to someone else.
> 
> The rest of us live in the real world. We make mistakes and would rather catch & correct them with the smallest headache possible.


First thing is testing the wiring before the sheet rock is installed won't reveal the screws the sheet rock guys install after you test! so sure you can test in advance but that is so easy if the panel is not enrgised.. Lift the bonding jumper and the wire from the meter base neutral to the main neutral since that wire is grounded. Test neutral to ground and witth all the breakers turned on test line 1 to ground and line 2 to ground all should be infinite resistance. All we have proven is we are free of ground faults and it will not reveal open wires if they are cut off for example.

Now I agree we all make mistakes but in 30 years I never pre-tested any wiring for faults before we start finishing and to date that has worked fine for me. I once asked a guy how he prices a house? His answer included 2 hours of trouble shooting to fix splicing errors. I asked him why he has so many faults and he told me apprentices inexperience etc. I still cannot fathom that answer as failure is part of his buisiness plan? Mistakes should be anomalies and not the norm.

If I spliced it I got it right the first time and to date I have never made a bad splice or missed termination ( I know of) except with a batch of bad RJ 45 jacks in my own house (Parts were cheap for a reason). I am not claiming I never made a mistake but I certainly did not add hours to fix them in advance of the mistake. I just ate the time and fixed it. If it was my personal error I also fixed it on my time and not my employers. Kind of motivation to do it once and do it right.
Now finding a screw in the wire can be a lot of fun but it is billable time but there won't be any screws from the drywall until after the drywall is hung.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Mshea said:


> First thing is testing the wiring before the sheet rock is installed won't reveal the screws the sheet rock guys install after you test!.........


The test is to verify that MY installation is correct when I'm done roughing in. If there's a problem, I find & correct it. At that point, there's no issues.

I test again upon returning. *THAT* test will find the sheetrockers using 3" screws.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

erics37 said:


> Why do you need half a dozen posts defending your position when it only takes one to say, "I don't own or know how to use a megger"


Here is a news flash for you.. I don't own a megger..

In fact.. I never knew how good of a tool they were until I started reading Marc's posts on the topic..

But that has nothing to do with checking circuits before they install the drywall..

I am not defending anything.. just telling you doing that is dumb because you are not getting paid for it..

Since when did working for free become part of the job.. :blink::blink:

Eric.. your pictures still suck.. join the modern world and buy a camera.. :no:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Mwchavis said:


> I had a plumber put a screw in one of my NM wires today!!!!! Found out after the Sheetrock was up!!!


How did you determine the plumber was at fault?


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## Mwchavis (Jan 11, 2012)

Celtic said:


> How did you determine the plumber was at fault?


The plumber screwed up a bracket to hold up an pipe and I had a home run on the other side of the 2x4... Honest mistake but made my life hell finding it behind the Sheetrock!!!!! I don't have a megger or saw one in use. I do mostly residential and light commercial, and don't know if that particular tool is worth it to me?????


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Wow, your a "commercial" electrician! You must be really smart.


Much smarter than a residential one, and actually yes I am very smart. Maths my thing you know kinda helps in the electrical field.


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

Mwchavis said:


> The plumber screwed up a bracket to hold up an pipe and I had a home run on the other side of the 2x4... Honest mistake but made my life hell finding it behind the Sheetrock!!!!! I don't have a megger or saw one in use. I do mostly residential and light commercial, and don't know if that particular tool is worth it to me?????


I don't know what you're talking about did you identify where the problem is? How bad is it? Obviously you aren't going to repull the home-run so make it work, splice it conceal it maybe alittle yellow tape. nobody will know the difference. It happens.


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## Electrician343 (May 1, 2009)

480sparky said:


> The test is to verify that MY installation is correct when I'm done roughing in. If there's a problem, I find & correct it. At that point, there's no issues.
> 
> I test again upon returning. *THAT* test will find the sheetrockers using 3" screws.


LOL excellent post...


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> Here is a news flash for you.. I don't own a megger..
> 
> In fact.. I never knew how good of a tool they were until I started reading Marc's posts on the topic..
> 
> ...


I'm not going to argue with you on this one because your position is pretty much indefensible and you're clinging to whatever pride you've got left.

And don't accuse me of being technologically behind-the-times when you're rocking a ****ing pager :laughing: my camera is just my iPhone, it's utilitarian and I never clean the lens but I'm not making a documentary.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Electrician343 said:


> Much smarter than a residential one, and actually yes I am very smart. Maths my thing you know kinda helps in the electrical field.


I would take a residential over a strickly comm anyday. They know how to lay out their own jobs and trouble shoot. No prints to hold their hand. I personally feel that the control guys are probably the smartest but for all around electrician give me a resi guy anytime.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> I would take a residential over a strickly comm anyday. They know how to lay out their own jobs and trouble shoot. No prints to hold their hand. I personally feel that the control guys are probably the smartest but for all around electrician give me a resi guy anytime.


I do whatever I can to avoid resi work, short of killing people. And that may happen soon anyway regardless.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

erics37 said:


> And don't accuse me of being technologically behind-the-times when you're rocking a ****ing pager :laughing: my camera is just my iPhone, it's utilitarian and I never clean the lens but I'm not making a documentary.


It was pretty hilarious seeing B4T lecture you about upgrading technology. :laughing::laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Electrician343 said:


> Much smarter than a residential one, and actually yes I am very smart. Maths my thing you know kinda helps in the electrical field.


I do a lot of work in both sides. Each side of the trade has its easy repetitive stuff and some difficult to accomplish stuff. Anybody who lives in an area where houses get built onto the sides of cliffs will instantly understand what I am talking about. It was somewhere around having installed my one millionth 2x4 lay in troffer light that I realized its all just work...... ***


*** Them that do nothing but program and fix plc and drive operated machinery all day may kindly ignore this post, You guys are a whole nother ball game, you deserve the right to be arrogant.


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## DannyBoy (Jun 1, 2012)

Like what b4t said. Its all about billable hours. If you like doing free work be my guest, but I used to test all my branch circuits before trim time and it never fails.....you'll be on a wild goose chase....on your own time.


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> I would take a residential over a strickly comm anyday. They know how to lay out their own jobs and trouble shoot. No prints to hold their hand. I personally feel that the control guys are probably the smartest but for all around electrician give me a resi guy anytime.


I am strictly commercial and industrial and I have never had a print to "hold my hand". All as build anymore. I have layed out many jobs from small remodel to designing and building control circuits for large equipment at grain elevators. I have jobs with many guys and have done them on my own. I have also wired residential for some of our clients. I know from experience resi work is brainless. Drill holes pull wire device out. The only thing that counts is how fast you move. Laying out a resi job is not hard and nothing to brag about.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

erics37 said:


> I'm not going to argue with you on this one because your position is pretty much indefensible and you're clinging to whatever pride you've got left.
> 
> And don't accuse me of being technologically behind-the-times when you're rocking a ****ing pager :laughing: my camera is just my iPhone, it's utilitarian and I never clean the lens but I'm not making a documentary.


Nice try.. but unfortunately you have failed miserably at making a valid point..

Since you don't do much new housing.. let me clue you in on a very important fact..

The electrician should always be the last trade in.. wiring a house before the insulation and drywall goes up..

I will not start my job till the other trades are done with theirs.. this is how it always has been..

Follow that simple rule and there is no making free trips to check your wiring.. 

Now about using a phone to take pics.. really lame not to have a decent camera.. :no::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> Nice try.. but unfortunately you have failed miserably at making a valid point..
> 
> Since you don't do much new housing.. let me clue you in on a very important fact..
> 
> ...



If you can't price your jobs to afford a megger, you can't afford a 'decent' camera, either.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If you can't price your jobs to afford a megger, you can't afford a 'decent' camera, either.


That has nothing to do with anything.. but nice try at pulling a rabbit out of thin air.. :no:

I lost count at the number of posts here on ET about wiring new houses and the amount of dwindling profit those jobs provide..

But you make extra trips to "check your wiring"..:blink::blink::blink::blink:

Why not follow the way it works here.. electric is last trade in before the walls get closed..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> That has nothing to do with anything.. but nice try at pulling a rabbit out of thin air.. :no:
> 
> I lost count at the number of posts here on ET about wiring new houses and the amount of dwindling profit those jobs provide..
> 
> ...


Nice try, but you still haven't understood the concept of NOT MAKING EXTRA TRIPS.

So I'll explain it again.

Megger the job when you're done, BUT BEFORE YOU LEAVE.

Load up your ladders, drill, cords, radio, etc. and grab the megger WHILE YOU'RE STILL ON THE JOB> DO NOT>>>>>> DO NOT....... DO NOT make another trip back to do this.

TAKE YOUR MEGGER TO THE JOB SITE TO BEGIN WITH AND YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE ANY 'EXTRA TRIPS'.

Simple as that. It only take 2-3 minutes to megger your work at the panel during rough-in. And far far less time to repeat the test when you come back to start trimming out. If that's simply too much time and you can't afford it, you're not pricing your jobs right.


You also must not understand the concept of customers changing their minds and having the turd-herders and tin-knockers come back and change their work even when we're done,....... nor understand that most drywallers and insulators don't give a crap about the wiring.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Nice try, but you still haven't understood the concept of NOT MAKING EXTRA TRIPS.
> 
> So I'll explain it again.
> 
> ...


IMO.. you are just spinning your wheels.. so knock yourself out..

In the past say (25) years.. I have had only ONE problem.. the insulators staple that I posted pics of.. 

You would still of had the same problem I did.. so you gained nothing..

When cutting the boxes in on the rough.. I bend hooks for the devices while the strippers are in my hand..

Going back for the finish is a snap.. unroll the wires and install the devices..

To each their own.. I wish you luck going the extra useless step.. :thumbsup:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> I would take a residential over a strickly comm anyday. They know how to lay out their own jobs and trouble shoot. No prints to hold their hand. I personally feel that the control guys are probably the smartest but for all around electrician give me a resi guy anytime.


There is a lot more to commercial electrical work than following the prints. Your post makes me think you have not spent a lot of time doing different commercial/industrial work.

I've done residential work, commercial work, and control wiring. I agree, the control wiring will tax your brain the most, and it's my favorite work (well, 2nd favorite just behind the work that pays me the most, whatever it is :laughing: ).


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> IMO.. you are just spinning your wheels.. so knock yourself out..
> 
> In the past say (25) years.. I have had only ONE problem.. the insulators staple that I posted pics of..
> 
> ...


So.... what would prepping the ends of the wires with loops have to do with stapling the NM? Does putting loops in your wires prevent all other mistakes? Does taking the time to loop your wires during rough instead of trim somehow keep others from damaging your wiring?

Would you care to IDENTIFY this 'extra useless step' I'm taking? You keep claiming there's one, but you repeatedly fail to point it out.

Nice try... please play again.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Since I don't do residential work anymore I guess my thoughts don't mean anything, but if I did, with the arc fault breaker requirements, I think I might be tempted to check my wiring prior to sheetrock. I'm not sure exactly how I'd do it, but I believe I'd do it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Since I don't do residential work anymore I guess my thoughts don't mean anything, but if I did, with the arc fault breaker requirements, I think I might be tempted to check my wiring prior to sheetrock. I'm not sure exactly how I'd do it, but I believe I'd do it.


The insulator's staple I mentioned in my last post was causing the AFCI to trip.. testing the circuits would of been a waste of time at the end of the rough..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Would you care to IDENTIFY this 'extra useless step' I'm taking? You keep claiming there's one, but you repeatedly fail to point it out.
> 
> Nice try... please play again.


Remember that B4T does perfect work on perfect jobsites under perfect conditions all the time.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Remember that B4T does perfect work on perfect jobsites under perfect conditions all the time.


Peter Dic strikes again with his useless posts.. :no::no::no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Peter Dic strikes again with his useless posts.. :no::no::no:


It wasn't useless at all. You're making fun of people who check their work and know how to use a megger properly. You're the fool here.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> The insulator's staple I mentioned in my last post was causing the AFCI to trip.. testing the circuits would of been a waste of time at the end of the rough..



But certainly not a waste of time when you repeat the test at the beginning of trim-out.:whistling2:

How much time did you waste searching for the cause by opening boxes you've already trimmed before you came to the conclusion it wasn't caused by your and your work?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It wasn't useless at all. You're making fun of people who check their work and know how to use a megger properly. You're the fool here.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

B4T said:


> The insulator's staple I mentioned in my last post was causing the AFCI to trip.. testing the circuits would of been a waste of time at the end of the rough..


How did that staple cause the arc fault breaker to trip? Did it have some continuity to another conductor? If not, then what, did it change the sine wave somehow? I'm sincere in my question because I have no exposure to these (other than reading ET or MH).

How is it that a tester (I assume megger) would not find the fault? If a megger won't do it, what about an arc fault tester? Could you adapt it? 

Do you guys ever have problems with bad romex?

Have you guys ever had problems that were your fault?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> You're making fun of people who check their work and know how to use a megger properly.


It does seem a pretty ridiculous position for someone ....... Unless they are trolling.


----------



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> I never knew wiring a new house was such a challenge for you.. poor guy..
> 
> There is a slim margin of profit to begin with and you are making extra trips to check to make sure the wiring is good.. :no::laughing:


Wait a second, you said earlier that you don't have to test the wiring because you check it each day before you leave. Then you talk about the slim PM and wasting money by making extra trips to check. Which is it? How much time do you spend "checking everything before I leave for the day"?? 

I would think checking once when you finish rough is a lot quicker and more accurate then looking at everything each day before you leave.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> How did that staple cause the arc fault breaker to trip? Did it have some continuity to another conductor? If not, then what, did it change the sine wave somehow? I'm sincere in my question because I have no exposure to these (other than reading ET or MH).
> 
> How is it that a tester (I assume megger) would not find the fault? If a megger won't do it, what about an arc fault tester? Could you adapt it?
> 
> ...


The staple was hitting ground and neutral at the same time causing AFCI to trip..

A megger would not of helped find the problem.. this did.. called a Shortstop Cable fault finder..

It measures in feet from any point in the circuit to the short..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It does seem a pretty ridiculous position for someone ....... Unless they are trolling.


Yes. So the obvious answer is that B4T is a troll and an attention whore.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

B W E said:


> Wait a second, you said earlier that you don't have to test the wiring because you check it each day before you leave. Then you talk about the slim PM and wasting money by making extra trips to check. Which is it? How much time do you spend "checking everything before I leave for the day"??
> 
> I would think checking once when you finish rough is a lot quicker and more accurate then looking at everything each day before you leave.


I check what was installed already.. just a quick walk around.. how about as fast as you can walk from one room to another..


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It does seem a pretty ridiculous position for someone ....... Unless they are trolling.


You just enjoy stroking your little buddy.. be honest for once.. :no:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yes. So the obvious answer is that B4T is a troll and an attention whore.


Peter Dic and his useless commentary that means nothing and goes nowhere.. :thumbsup:


----------



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> I check what was installed already.. just a quick walk around.. how about as fast as you can walk from one room to another..


How well did that work on the insulation staple?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> You just enjoy stroking your little buddy.. be honest for once.. :no:


I was honest, your position here in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Peter Dic and his useless commentary that means nothing and goes nowhere.. :thumbsup:


Actually it was the other Peter (Speedy) who first recognized your attention whoreiness. I'm just agreeing with him. :thumbsup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

B W E said:


> How well did that work on the insulation staple?


I isolated the short between (2) receptacles.. measured from both end.. had to cut (2) holes in the rock to find it..


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I was honest, your position here in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.


I posted what works for me.. you want to waste your time.. knock yourself out.. :thumbsup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Actually it was the other Peter (Speedy) who first recognized your attention whoreiness. I'm just agreeing with him. :thumbsup:


That is his opinion.. he is a moderator.. he calls the shots.. but he does not know me anymore than anyone else here..

He is entitled to his opinion.. right or wrong.. :thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I posted what works for me.. you want to waste your time.. knock yourself out.. :thumbsup:


It's obviously not a waste of time for those who test their work. You're just being stubborn and small minded.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Yes. So the obvious answer is that B4T is a troll and an attention whore.


It can't be that obvious if it took 21,000 posts for B4T's fiendish plan to be discovered.








​


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Celtic said:


> It can't be that obvious if it took 21,000 posts for B4T's fiendish plan to be discovered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep you got me.. my plan in life to to troll an Internet forum.. :no::no:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Yep you got me.. my plan in life to to troll an Internet forum..


We know, we all know.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Yep you got me.. my plan in life to to troll an Internet forum.. :no::no:


You may not plan it, but you still do a great job anyway.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> We know, we all know.


WOW.. now you speak for the entire forum.. you really are a legend in your own mind..


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> The staple was hitting ground and neutral at the same time causing AFCI to trip..
> 
> A megger would not of helped find the problem..


This gets my nomination for "Post Of The Year".



B4T said:


> ........ this did.. called a Shortstop Cable fault finder..
> 
> It measures in feet from any point in the circuit to the short..


I will ask again....... how much time did you spend finding the staple?

Or did you magically know exactly which box to open, remove the device, separate the conductors, and know which conductors to hook your B4T's Stupendously Fantastic Box to?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You may not plan it, but you still do a great job anyway.


You still manage to be Peter Dic.. no matter what you say.. :thumbup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> This gets my nomination for "Post Of The Year".


Does a megger measure in feet to a short.. :blink::blink:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

B4T said:


> The staple was hitting ground and neutral at the same time causing AFCI to trip..
> 
> A megger would not of helped find the problem.. this did.. called a Shortstop Cable fault finder..
> 
> It measures in feet from any point in the circuit to the short..


If you had megged from neutral to ground (before the conductors were landed on their respective buss, it would have showed you had a problem. Heck, a DMM would have found it.

You are correct, the megger would not have told you how far away the problem was.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

B4T said:


> Yep you got me..





BBQ said:


> We know, we all know.









​ 

:laughing:
The interweb is a funny place :thumbup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> That is his opinion.. he is a moderator.. he calls the shots.. but he does not know me anymore than anyone else here..
> 
> He is entitled to his opinion.. right or wrong.. :thumbsup:



You're not a moderator, and you're entitled to your opinion as well, right or wrong.

Nice try, please play again.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> Does a megger measure in feet to a short.. :blink::blink:



Try answering just ONE of my questions instead of constantly evading them and asking more and more of your own.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You're not a moderator, and you're entitled to your opinion as well, right or wrong.
> 
> Nice try, please play again.


You forgot who calls the shots.. :thumbsup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> You forgot who calls the shots.. :thumbsup:


How does speedys being a moderator have to do with anything?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> Peter Dic and his useless commentary that means nothing and goes nowhere.. :thumbsup:


And calling him names helps you.......... how? Getting banned?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> You forgot who calls the shots.. :thumbsup:



Oh, do tell. Please. Try answering ONE question.

Just one.

Uno.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Try answering just ONE of my questions instead of constantly evading them and asking more and more of your own.


OK.. I energize the circuits.. nothing trips.. I test each receptacle.. everything checks out good..

Something trips.. I do what I have just posted,,

You can meg all you want.. end result you would have the same staple in the same wire unless you checked the job after each trade did their work..

If that is how you like to roll.. good luck with that..

Those new houses don't pay that kind of profit to babysit other trades.. *FOR ME..*


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> OK.. I energize the circuits.. nothing trips.. I test each receptacle.. everything checks out good..
> 
> Something trips.. I do what I have just posted,,
> 
> ...



Yet you still haven't ANSWERED my question.


OK, once again:

_How long did it take you to find that staple?_


Or is the question too difficult?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> And calling him names helps you.......... how? Getting banned?


You forget where the name calling started.. it was not me.. :no::no::no:

I try to avoid Peter as much as I can.. trust me.. :thumbsup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> You forget where the name calling started.. it was not me.. :no::no::no:


With you, it almost always starts with you and than Harry joins in.

Peter says things you don't want to hear but you come back at him with name calling.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Yet you still haven't ANSWERED my question.
> 
> 
> OK, once again:
> ...


I had to break the circuit about (5) times before I found the right run from box to box.. 

Time wise.. less than an hour..


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> With you, it almost always starts with you.


BS.. and you know it.. :no:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> You forget where the name calling started.. it was not me.. :no::no::no:
> 
> I try to avoid Peter as much as I can.. trust me.. :thumbsup:


I point out something completely ridiculous that you say (which is very frequent) and you start the name calling. Once again, stop posting your nonsense here if you don't want anyone to comment about it.


----------



## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Speaking of testing houses before the sheetrock is up, I sometimes test for missing wire runs. On big houses where there is a bunch of lights with multiple switch runs and lots of three ways and four ways. I'd rather be sure ahead of the rock than have to deal with either figuring out a way to save my butt afterward, or worse, start cutting finished sheetrock out to run another nm cable from someplace to someplace. My method- make up boxes first, (I don't pigtail hots or neuts, no need with this test method) , then before making up the panel completely is to tone test all the lighting circuits. Tone tester hooked up between ground conductor and neutral at panel before panel wires landed.
> Take the wand out for a walk around the house. You will hear (detect) the places where the circuit is complete, and not hear where you missed something like maybe at a switch box that didn't get tied into the branch circuit properly. This has saved my butt once in a while I admit it. Usually if I am having to rush a job for whatever reason is where I get any problem leaving out a run, and my test works really good to not have that happen.


Mac I do the toner trick also and to confirm the neutral just touch the hot & neutral together..tone drops considerably.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> BS.. and you know it.. :no:


It is not BS.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It is not BS.


BBQ.. your full of it.. :no::no::no:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> I had to break the circuit about (5) times before I found the right run from box to box..
> 
> Time wise.. less than an hour..



So, that includes walking around and removing devices you already had installed. Then there's the extra step of putting the devices back in.


Hmmmm. I'd say you probably could have done it in 5 minutes if you had megged the circuit before starting trim.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I point out something completely ridiculous that you say (which is very frequent) and you start the name calling. Once again, stop posting your nonsense here if you don't want anyone to comment about it.


Think back Pete.. when did you start the name calling with "Doofus".. or is that OK by forum standards..


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

How about we drop the name-calling and get back on topic?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So, that includes walking around and removing devices you already had installed. Then there's the extra step of putting the devices back in.
> 
> 
> Hmmmm. I'd say you probably could have done it in 5 minutes if you had megged the circuit before starting trim.


OK.. how does that tell you where to cut open the wall to find the fault causing the AFCI to trip..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Think back Pete.. when did you start the name calling with "Doofus".. or is that OK by forum standards..


In my book, it's ok if the person on the receiving end has a thick skin, which you obviously don't. People rag on me constantly (calling me a hack, loser, troll, no girlfriend, etc) but I don't cry about it the way you do.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> How about we drop the name-calling and get back on topic?


The nature pictures you post are awesome.:thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> OK.. how does that tell you where to cut open the wall to find the fault causing the AFCI to trip..


Where did I say a megger would?

What I'm saying is...........

Megger the circuit before you start installing devices. If there's damage, like your staple, NOW is the time to start looking for it, not after you install all the devices and find out you need to start tearing them all out.

What took you 'less than an hour', which I'll take to mean 59 minutes, could have been located in 5 minutes when you don't have to undo all your trim work to find it.

Those other 54 minutes can now be spent megging another dozen houses.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> In my book, it's ok if the person on the receiving end has a thick skin, which you obviously don't. People rag on me constantly (calling me a hack, loser, troll, no girlfriend, etc) but I don't cry about it the way you do.


I can't reply to that.. not worth it.. how about we just ignore each other and don't reply to any posts.. seems like a simple solution.. this way "your book" is closed.. :thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I can't reply to that.. not worth it.. how about we just ignore each other and don't reply to any posts.. seems like a simple solution.. this way "your book" is closed.. :thumbsup:


Not a chance, the only way I'll stop replying to anyone's postings here is when they leave the forum and stop posting.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Where did I say a megger would?
> 
> What I'm saying is...........
> 
> ...


You're giving me dribble.. I want to find and fix the problem and go home.. the megger is useless at getting me up and running.. all I am saying.. 

I knew I had a problem when the AFCI tripped.. I didn't need a meeger to tell me that..


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> You're giving me dribble.. I want to find and fix the problem and go home.. the megger is useless at getting me up and running.. all I am saying..
> 
> I knew I had a problem when the AFCI tripped.. I didn't need a meeger to tell me that..


What if it was on a circuit that wasn't supplied from an AFCI breaker? Now you have a downstream neutral-ground bond along with all the inherent problems that that can create.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

erics37 said:


> What if it was on a circuit that wasn't supplied from an AFCI breaker? Now you have a downstream neutral-ground bond along with all the inherent problems that that can create.


You have a neutral bond connection at the panel.. what problems are you talking about.. 

If this was some kind of hidden danger you speak of.. wouldn't it of been mandatory long time ago to meg any circuits you installed..


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> You have a neutral bond connection at the panel.. what problems are you talking about..
> 
> If this was some kind of hidden danger you speak of.. wouldn't it of been mandatory long time ago to meg any circuits you installed..




Sorry, you rendered me speechless.

Where did you learn electrical work? Has anyone ever explained to you what an effective ground fault current path is, and why the neutral (grounded) conductor shouldn't be part of it anywhere downstream from the main bonding jumper? Do you know what the main bonding jumper is for?

Wow dude.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> You're giving me dribble..


Only because you're head is buried in the sand.



B4T said:


> I want to find and fix the problem and go home..


No you don't. You want to spend the maximum amount of time finding a problem.



B4T said:


> the megger is useless at getting me up and running..


Not at all. It would have saved you almost an hour of labor.



B4T said:


> all I am saying..
> 
> I knew I had a problem when the AFCI tripped.. I didn't need a meeger to tell me that..


So you spent an extra 55 minutes spinning your wheels, claiming your method is somehow faster because you strip and hook at rough and claiming I am taking 'extra steps' and 'extra trips' when _you_ are the one who ended up taking extra steps and extra trips.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> You have a neutral bond connection at the panel.. what problems are you talking about.. .


If N-G connections aren't a 'problem', why do you run separate neutral & ground past the panel then?

Why not just run 2-wire cable and tie the neutrals & grounds together at the devices?





B4T said:


> If this was some kind of hidden danger you speak of.. wouldn't it of been mandatory long time ago to meg any circuits you installed..


Try 110.7.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

erics37 said:


>


Forget the funny faces.. I'm asking you a legit question.. if you don't have an answer.. say so.. :no:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Just when you think B4T can't go any lower, he grabs a shovel and starts digging.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If N-G connections aren't a 'problem', why do you run separate neutral & ground past the panel then?
> 
> Why not just run 2-wire cable and tie the neutrals & grounds together at the devices?


I got that.. my plug in receptacle tester would pick up a N-G connection..


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Just when you think B4T can't go any lower, he grabs a shovel and starts digging.


This is where the BS starts.. there is your TROLL..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> This is where the BS starts.. there is your TROLL..


I don't think so. You're opposing some of the best and brightest minds in the trade. The more you dig in your heels on this, the more foolish you look.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> Forget the funny faces.. I'm asking you a legit question.. if you don't have an answer.. say so.. :no:


The neutral is a circuit conductor, meaning it is designed, installed, and wired to actively carry current on the circuit to and from its source of supply (the utility transformer).

If you tie the neutral to your EGC downstream of your main bonding jumper, then you are creating a parallel current path and potentially putting neutral current on your equipment grounding system. And by extension, every metal frame and enclosure that you have bonded into your EGC system.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If N-G connections aren't a 'problem', why do you run separate neutral & ground past the panel then?
> 
> Why not just run 2-wire cable and tie the neutrals & grounds together at the devices?
> Try 110.7.


110.7 Wiring Integrity. Completed wiring installations
shall be free from short circuits, ground faults, or any connections
to ground other than as required or permitted elsewhere
in this Code.

So you are saying it is mandatory to meg all circuits and the basic outlet analyzer is useless??


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I don't think so. You're opposing some of the best and brightest minds in the trade. The more you dig in your heels on this, the more foolish you look.


FU.. Im out


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> 110.7 Wiring Integrity. Completed wiring installations
> shall be free from short circuits, ground faults, or any connections
> to ground other than as required or permitted elsewhere
> in this Code.
> ...


It is not mandatory but in my opinion perhaps it should be. I think I remember frenchelectrician mentioning that megging circuits before cover is required in France.

A circuit analyzer has its uses but it's pretty much a "yes or no" gizmo. The megger can inform you of the insulation integrity, the presence of direct shorts or faults, and even some of those pesky "intermittent" issues which are often caused by wiring failures that haven't reached the point of a total short circuit or ground fault.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

erics37 said:


> It is not mandatory but in my opinion perhaps it should be. I think I remember frenchelectrician mentioning that megging circuits before cover is required in France.


Quite a few countries require insulation testing on an ongoing basis.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

B4T said:


> *You have a neutral bond connection at the panel.. what problems are you talking about..
> *
> If this was some kind of hidden danger you speak of.. wouldn't it of been mandatory long time ago to meg any circuits you installed..


Seriously dude?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> FU.. Im out


http://www.uhaul.com/


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> FU.. Im out


Finally, you need to preserve some dignity.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Only because you're head is buried in the sand.


So much for no name calling.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> 110.7 Wiring Integrity. Completed wiring installations
> shall be free from short circuits, ground faults, or any connections
> to ground other than as required or permitted elsewhere
> in this Code.
> ...



Are you saying having the neutral and ground connected just anywhere in the circuit is safe?


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I agree with B4T.:thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> I agree with B4T.:thumbsup:


With what exactly?


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

You guys give B4T a lot of crap. He must be doing something right. He's been in business 30 plus years.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> You guys give B4T a lot of crap. He must be doing something right. He's been in business 30 plus years.


#1 He says and does a lot of ridiculous stuff, so that's why he gets the feedback that he does. 

#2 Time in business is no marker of being right or successful, as a lot of his postings clearly indicate.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

In case B4T should return to face the walk of shame...or in case anyone else cares for some more understanding...

NEC 250.6 ~ Objectionable Current

http://ecmweb.com/content/get-heart-objectionable-current

I have a Grounding Presentation.ppt [Power Point Presentation 738kb] that Bob Ludecke has given me permission to distribute...
yours for free by PM'ing me your email address...
or downloading directly here: 
*grounding_presentation.ppt.*



You'll need a free Power Point Viewer, available here:
*PowerPoint Viewer - Microsoft Download Center ...*


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> You guys give B4T a lot of crap. He must be doing something right. He's been in business 30 plus years.


The gubbamints been 'in business' for 236. What does that prove?


----------



## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

*i made a big mistake....*

i removed b four t from my block list, and may have suffered
neurological damage as a result. i put the block back, but the
damage has been done. what an a$$ whole.

that is my personal opinion, without documentation or footnotes.

it's funny... his whole thing about not needing a megger... today,
i had a couple long hard pulls to make, and i meggered them as soon
as i cut off the pull rope, before they were cut off the spools on
the other end. if the insulation was damaged, it's usually at the
beginning of the pull, so i could horse another 30 feet if i had a 
bad conductor.

instead of making it up, lighting it up, and having it trip in two
weeks, 'cause the insulation was damaged almost to the point of
failure, but you had no way of knowing that, 'CAUSE YOU ARE
TOO FREAKING LAZY, DUMB, OR CHEAP TO BUY A TOOL THAT
CAN BE HAD NEW FOR A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS.

"i don't get paid to do that, so i don't do it."

isn't there a job somewhere in civil service where you'd fit in
nicely? maybe as a plan checker in a building department?

truth be told, i think this forum has passed a point of diminishing 
returns for me... it's pretty toxic, to be honest, and i doubt i'm
contributing anything here that is worthwhile. i'd reached that
decision a while ago, but still peeked in here a bit, sort of like
seeing a bad car wreck on the freeway, and looking..... i think
i'm done.

thanks to the people who were friendly.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

FulThrotl said:


> i think
> i'm done.
> 
> thanks to the people who were friendly.


Before you go, how did your van repair go? Back in tip top shape?


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

dude ! say it aint so. I realize there is a lot of ridiculous teeth gnashing between some here that seem to have nothing better to do, but there are still some worthwhile topics now and then.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> You guys give B4T a lot of crap. He must be doing something right. He's been in business 30 plus years.


Think About it he's absolutely unemployable he has no other choice


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> #1 He says and does a lot of ridiculous stuff, so that's why he gets the feedback that he does.
> 
> #2 Time in business is no marker of being right or successful, as a lot of his postings clearly indicate.


This coming from a guy who still lives with his parents.. MR. SUCCESS him self.. :laughing:

You enjoy being a useless Troll.. that has been proven many times over.. I give my opinion.. you don't agree.. not my problem.. 

Your last claim to fame was being a spelling cop.. but then you moved up in the ranks and became Hack.. :no::no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Think About it he's absolutely unemployable he has no other choice


Yea right.. go massage your truck nuts little man.. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> This coming from a guy who still lives with his parents.. MR. SUCCESS him self.. :laughing:


False.



> You enjoy being a useless Troll.. that has been proven many times over.. I give my opinion.. you don't agree.. not my problem..


Then don't cry like a baby when someone disagrees with you. And you're a much bigger troll than just about anyone here. 




> Your last claim to fame was being a spelling cop.. but then you moved up in the ranks and became Hack.. :no::no:



After those pics you posted of that service the other day, you're the last person to be calling anyone a hack. :whistling2:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Celtic said:


> In case B4T should return to face the walk of shame...or in case anyone else cares for some more understanding...
> 
> NEC 250.6 ~ Objectionable Current
> 
> ...



There is no shame.. my goal in life is not to impress a bunch of people I never met and never will..

Everyone has their own style of working.. you don't like mine.. not my problem.. go meg all you want.. I will stick to what is mandatory..

So knock yourself out.. I am done responding to this thread before I get banned again..

If you have any questions.. feel free to send me a PM..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Just thinking if we all move on from this thread that no one will get any time off. 


That is my one voice of reason comment for the month.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> There is no shame.. my goal in life is not to impress a bunch of people I never met and never will..


Yeah right. :lol: 21,000 posts and you start more threads than just about anyone else. I said it before, I'll say it again - you're an attention whore.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Just thinking if we all move on from this thread that no one will get any time off.
> 
> 
> That is my one voice of reason comment for the month.


This thread is B4T.

And have you considered a career in philosophy?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> The benefit of testing before the walls are rocked is that you know 100% that if a problem pops up later, it wasn't something you did.


But it's still a problem you have..


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> BBQ.. your full of it.. :no::no::no:


"You're" :whistling2:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Celtic said:


> In case B4T should return to face the walk of shame...or in case anyone else cares for some more understanding...
> 
> NEC 250.6 ~ Objectionable Current
> 
> ...


On a Mac.... these files will open in Keynote. :thumbsup:


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