# 60 volts from neutral to ground?



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

open N? backfed N?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Probably a control transformer, would be my guess. They don't always bond the secondary on small control transformers. You could get all kinds of wacky readings.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Probably a control transformer, would be my guess....


 I'll second that; I'm betting you've got a floating secondary.

-John


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## Trickelcharge (Mar 4, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Probably a control transformer, would be my guess. They don't always bond the secondary on small control transformers. You could get all kinds of wacky readings.


Would it be safe to rely on this as coil power? That is the way it was previously wired.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

I'd chase that weird stuff down; something could happen later and you might get stuck with the blame.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Just reference the neural to ground at the control transformer.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Trickelcharge said:


> Would it be safe to rely on this as coil power? That is the way it was previously wired.


Yeah, lots of CPT's (Control Power Transformer) out there are not bonded to ground and both x1 and x2 are fused. I have a whole bunch of stuff we demoed the other day that was like that, all red wires, fun fun fun. :laughing:


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## Trickelcharge (Mar 4, 2011)

There is a receptacle and a switch within a foot or two, with good clean 120 volts I'm thinking those existing wires might just get capped off.:whistling2:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Trickelcharge said:


> There is a receptacle and a switch within a foot or two, with good clean 120 volts I'm thinking those existing wires might just get capped off.:whistling2:


 I wouldn't. Odds are that 120V in the starter is control power specifically for the purpose of running that motor starter. 

If you use a general receptacle circuit for that 120V power you risk knocking out the control power for your motor when someone overloads a receptacle.

I don't believe there's anything wrong with your existing setup, and I think it's a step backwards not to use it.

-John


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> I wouldn't. Odds are that 120V in the starter is control power specifically for the purpose of running that motor starter.
> 
> If you use a general receptacle circuit for that 120V power you risk knocking out the control power for your motor when someone overloads a receptacle.
> 
> I don't believe there's anything wrong with your existing setup, and I think it's a step backwards not to use it.


Yeah don't fix what ain't broke.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Trickelcharge said:


> There is a receptacle and a switch within a foot or two, with good clean 120 volts I'm thinking those existing wires might just get capped off.:whistling2:


Don't do that! I'm typing on my phone, so I can't write as much, but suffice it to say that you have NO problem.

Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Probably a control transformer, would be my guess. They don't always bond the secondary on small control transformers. You could get all kinds of wacky readings.





Big John said:


> I'll second that; I'm betting you've got a floating secondary.
> 
> -John


I'll third it. Control transformer. Measure for full 120v across the two coil leads when the coil is supposed to be energized and if that's good move on. 



Trickelcharge said:


> Would it be safe to rely on this as coil power? That is the way it was previously wired.


Yes is would be safe, and if the new coil works run with it. 



Trickelcharge said:


> There is a receptacle and a switch within a foot or two, with good clean 120 volts I'm thinking those existing wires might just get capped off.:whistling2:


Along with the others who said essentially the same thing:

That would be a waste of time and incredibly stupid. DO NOT alter the configuration of an existing starter unless you are absolutely sure that ALL overloads and other safety features will not be bypassed/affected by the change. 

I think you are either in way over your head on this one or simply overthinking it.


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## Trickelcharge (Mar 4, 2011)

In over my head? maybe alilbit, but hey Im a residential guy up till about a month ago. Just started with this new company mostly commercial, and Im in the service end of the deal. So I will take the advice with a grain of salt, and double check the voltage between hot and neutral if its good Ill say go with it. Im still the FNG, so what the boss says goes. This was the last call of the day so I didn't have time to trace wires down, just demo today, install new starter switch tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.


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## Trickelcharge (Mar 4, 2011)

New starter switch has built in overload with reset. I just don't want to f-up a new starter switch. Starting at 600$ ea.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

If you're starting to work on motors, get or use one of these








Then check the coil supply voltage hot to neutral. That's what the coil sees.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I agree with the others, what you have is a control transformer that isn't bonded. 
Your measurement from ground to neutral means absolutely nothing. 
DO NOT move the feed to the nearby receptacle.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Yeah, lots of CPT's (Control Power Transformer) out there are not bonded to ground and both x1 and x2 are fused. I have a whole bunch of stuff we demoed the other day that was like that, all red wires, fun fun fun. :laughing:


Yeah tell me about it I have see it the same thing over other side of the pond as well.



Trickelcharge said:


> There is a receptacle and a switch within a foot or two, with good clean 120 volts I'm thinking those existing wires might just get capped off.:whistling2:


My advise to ya *Jamais* { never } do that and also if you need a clean 120 volt receptale power run it thru it own transfomer do not go off from control transfomer due some of the control transfomer is not very big at all.

Merci,
Marc


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## Trickelcharge (Mar 4, 2011)

I checked the hot to neutral it is indeed 120v so I just rolled with it. Starter and motor worked fine, it was just kind of a curve ball no issues with it. Thanks for the useful info, it had to be a control transformer upstream. Didn't feel like chasing rainbows, or wild geese. _I did find the transformer, and no it was not bonded. In fact the maintenance guy said any time they touch the ceiling grid they get a little buzz._ I think bonding the secondary of the xformer might resolve some issues no? It is 480v to 208/120.


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