# motor 6 lead identification



## erics37

Rikki said:


> I have a 125 horsepower 480 volt six lead motor. The little metal tags fell off all the leads but one. How do I get these reidentified and sorted out? Thanks.


Is it a single voltage wye start/delta run setup, done with remote starters?

If so, all the windings should be totally isolated inside the motor and you should be able to ring out each pair. Otherwise, maybe someone else can enlighten you :thumbup:


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## erics37

And also, here's a link to just about every motor connection diagram you can conjure up:

http://www.usmotors.com/TechDocs/Connection-Diagrams.aspx


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## MDShunk

6-lead is not too bad. You basically have three pairs. 

Ohm them out to find each pair. Label one pair T1 and T4, another pair T2 and T5, and another pair T3 and T6. Use U1 and U2, V1 and V2, and W1 and W2 if you're doing a European motor. 

Mind you, I'm assuming that this 125 horse motor is wye-delta. Probably is.


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## Rikki

Yes, it is wye delta. It has three contactors. One start, one run, and one that shorts the star point during starting. Thanks for the help! Didn't think this would be so easy. Good thing it wasn't a 12 lead motor!


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## MDShunk

Rikki said:


> Yes, it is wye delta. It has three contactors. One start, one run, and one that shorts the star point during starting. Thanks for the help! Didn't think this would be so easy. Good thing it wasn't a 12 lead motor!


Cool. The pic below is what you have then. Sometimes a picture helps get it straight in your head:










EDIT: I see, for some reason, they forgot to mark T6 in the pic. Should be pretty self-explanatory which terminal that is.


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## Southeast Power

MDShunk said:


> Cool. The pic below is what you have then. Sometimes a picture helps get it straight in your head:
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> EDIT: I see, for some reason, they forgot to mark T6 in the pic. Should be pretty self-explanatory which terminal that is.


Sequence of operation would be 1M/S Close, M2Close/ S open?

How are the timing intervals established for each of the contactor operations?


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## MDShunk

jrannis said:


> Sequence of operation would be 1M/S Close, M2Close/ S open?
> 
> How are the timing intervals established for each of the contactor operations?


Yes. 

The sequence is normally done with timers or timers and current sensing relays. The last one I did, I used the Plc for the timings, since the motor had a tach generator on it.


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## JRaef

jrannis said:


> Sequence of operation would be 1M/S Close, M2Close/ S open?
> 
> How are the timing intervals established for each of the contactor operations?


There has to be an open transition between S opening and M2 closing. If you don't have thet brief transition time, you can close M2 into a dead short through S, not good. You can buy dedicated timers that will take care of it all for you, they are called "Star-Delta Timers" (Star is what everyone else in the world calls "Wye"). Thye have the Star-to-Delta transition time adjustable to the user but the open transition time is fixed so it can't be effed up.

You can also do it with what are called "Early Make / Late Break" aux contacts on the contactors to prevent that closed transition, download a wiring diagram from a NEMA manufacturer like A-B or Sq. D if you want to see how it's done.


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## don_resqcapt19

Just finding the pairs is not enough to correctly identify the leads. You have to be able to be able to identify what end is what for each pair. That is on pair one you have to find out what end is T1 and what end is T4 and do the same with the other pairs.


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## sparky970

I was working on this Friday. No markings on the leads and nothing on the motor. Looked on their website and it referred to the diagram on the motor. I tried to call them, but they were east coast and already closed. The lead that looks red is actually orange. I need to wire this for 120v. Any help? By the way the lead that looks black is actually brown.


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## JRaef

sparky970 said:


> I was working on this Friday. No markings on the leads and nothing on the motor. Looked on their website and it referred to the diagram on the motor. I tried to call them, but they were east coast and already closed. The lead that looks red is actually orange. I need to wire this for 120v. Any help? By the way the lead that looks black is actually brown.


Did you post this to the wrong thread? What does this have to do with a 6 lead 3 phase Wye Delta motor?


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## sparky970

JRaef said:


> Did you post this to the wrong thread? What does this have to do with a 6 lead 3 phase Wye Delta motor?


 I did, my mistake. It does have 6 leads though


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## JRaef

For future reference you should start another thread if it not directly related. But since you are here, without the nameplate info it's difficult to tell. 1 phase motors usually don't have that many leads, so the extras are probably thermal sensors or moisture sensors or both. Not having the diagram cam be a disaster if you guess wrong. I take it the diagram on the inside cover of the connection box is gone? If so you can contact Bluffton Motor Works in Indiana and ask them for it.


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## sparky970

JRaef said:


> For future reference you should start another thread if it not directly related. But since you are here, without the nameplate info it's difficult to tell. 1 phase motors usually don't have that many leads, so the extras are probably thermal sensors or moisture sensors or both. Not having the diagram cam be a disaster if you guess wrong. I take it the diagram on the inside cover of the connection box is gone? If so you can contact Bluffton Motor Works in Indiana and ask them for it.


They were closed when I called Friday. Didn't want to guess and ruin a new motor. Color code didn't match NEMA. I'll need try tomorrow. Again didn't mean to hijack this thread.


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## MDShunk

I think Bluffton is just Franklin Electric by another name, and they always did use screwy color codes.


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## micromind

MDShunk said:


> I think Bluffton is just Franklin Electric by another name, and they always did use screwy color codes.


They sure did! And not always the same colors from one motor to the next.

BTW, the unwritten standard color codes for motor leads (both single and 3ø) used by a number of manufacturers are;

T1= Blue

T2 = White

T3 = Orange

T4 = Yellow 

T5 = Black

T6 = Purple (sometimes brown)

T7 = Pink

T8 = Red

T9 = Gray

On a single phase motor with a built-in thermal protector, P1 and P2 are often brown and purple, but in no particular order.


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## MDShunk

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Just finding the pairs is not enough to correctly identify the leads. You have to be able to be able to identify what end is what for each pair. That is on pair one you have to find out what end is T1 and what end is T4 and do the same with the other pairs.


Not sure why that would even matter.


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## micromind

MDShunk said:


> Not sure why that would even matter.


The full voltage connection of a basic 6 lead motor is L1 = T1 & T6; L2 = T2 &T4; L3 = T3 & T5.

If it were to be connected L1 = T6 & T1 and the others connected as stated above, 2/3 of the motor will turn one direction, the other 1/3 the other direction. 

Motor coils have polarity, and the polarity must be in proper sequence.


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## sparky970

micromind said:


> The full voltage connection of a basic 6 lead motor is L1 = T1 & T6; L2 = T2 &T4; L3 = T3 & T5.
> 
> If it were to be connected L1 = T6 & T1 and the others connected as stated above, 2/3 of the motor will turn one direction, the other 1/3 the other direction.
> 
> Motor coils have polarity, and the polarity must be in proper sequence.




:blink: huh?


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## micromind

sparky970 said:


> :blink: huh?


Oops, I stated that wrong.....

If it were connected L1 = T4 & T6; L2 = T4 & T1; T3 = T3 & T5 (in this case, the T1 to T4 coil is reversed), you'd have trouble. 

Draw it out, then reverse T1 and T4.


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## erics37

micromind said:


> Oops, I stated that wrong.....
> 
> If it were connected L1 = T4 & T6; L2 = T4 & T1; T3 = T3 & T5 (in this case, the T1 to T4 coil is reversed), you'd have trouble.
> 
> Draw it out, then reverse T1 and T4.


I get it.

So how would you determine which end of each winding is which?


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## Jlarson

erics37 said:


> I get it.
> 
> So how would you determine which end of each winding is which?


Analog meter and a lantern battery.


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## Spannerz

Galvanometer your time has come. I choose you. GO!!


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## don_resqcapt19

MDShunk said:


> Not sure why that would even matter.


The field can be in opposition if you don't have the coils connected correctly.


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