# dimming LED



## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

I am trying to put a dimmer on some LED tape. 120v. The customer supplied the tape and driver. Above cabinet lighting. 60 watt driver. Wall switch to receptacle above cabinet for driverI e-mailed Lutron and asked what driver they would recommend for something like this. The driver didn't have much info on it. I'm not sure it even had a manufacturer name, but I gave them the info I had. I can't remember what that info was now. Lutron responded by saying they couldn't recommend anything because that info was not in their system. They said to contact the manufacturer. I did a short search but of course found nothing. So I went through the Lutron list of led dimmers and tried one. DVCL-153PR-WH. That didn't do it. Then I bought a P&S H703PTUTC that my supplier thought might do the trick. It didn't work either. Is there some dimmer that anyone uses in this application?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Is the driver dimmable. Not all LED's are dimmable. Lutron as a CL dimmer or possibly a very expensive electronic low voltage dimmer that may work but you are shooting in the dark without that info


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

The customer supplied the materials. Let the customer supply the dimmer. Why are you wasting time on this?


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

jw0445 said:


> The customer supplied the materials. Let the customer supply the dimmer. Why are you wasting time on this?


 Thanks for that.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Sorry, didn't mean anything towards you. It just burns me up when customers think they're saving money by supplying materials leaving the electrician to fill in the gaps.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

What Dennis said. LED tape AND driver must be of the dimmable type. Then you would need a dimmer compatible with the driver. 

If the driver and tape are dimmable then even the Lutron CL dimmer should probably dim it, but maybe not correctly, it may not be the right dimmer for that driver and it could require an ELV dimmer. Cooper has a all in one dimmer that is not too expensive. About 1/3 the price of the Lutron one.

What brand tape and driver? Ask the customer. Perhaps it's not even dimmable, in which case it's not your responsibility.


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## mdnitedrftr (Aug 21, 2013)

jw0445 said:


> The customer supplied the materials. Let the customer supply the dimmer. Why are you wasting time on this?


I agree. Unless this is a really good customer, I would say, "Sorry, you're going to have to call the manufacturer to see which dimmer is compatible with the driver."


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

I had a customer last year buy a ceiling fan / light kit and dimmable remote kit. Called me to install and everything went well until I realized the light kit was made for GU24 CFL's with a max wattage of 13W per socket. It included Non-dimmable bulbs.

So I told the customer they have a few options. 

They could operate the fan via the chains on the fan and light instead of the remote. (not very favorable)

Get a new remote without dimming capability.

Don't use the dimmer on the remote and just press for on/off function.

Or get different GU24 CFL bulbs that are dimmable. (I gave her a link to the bulbs at HD):thumbsup:

She text and called me complaining about flickering, and I kept telling her to order the dimmable bulbs or I could even order them and come install them. I even offered to come by for free and just charge her for the bulbs since she is located in my town. 
Of course none of these things pleased her and she sent me a text saying, how she can't get any customer service and the situation is horrible. 
Never heard from her after that. :001_huh:


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

jw0445 said:


> Sorry, didn't mean anything towards you. It just burns me up when customers think they're saving money by supplying materials leaving the electrician to fill in the gaps.


 I understand. He showed me a package some of his parts came in; Return address, Jing Sheng Zhou, Zhu Guang Road, Xi Li, Nan Shan district, Shen Zhen, Guang Dong, China. I will have to cruise the 'net and see if I can find any parts that look like what he got. If this turns into a big headache, I may just tell him this stuff is not dimmable. I roughed in for a single pole switch to above cabinets without knowing what kind of lights they wanted.


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## randolph333 (Feb 10, 2015)

Shen Zhen, a bit north of Hong Kong on the Chinese mainland, is China's Silicon Valley, and there are tons of electronics manufacturers there. The customer ordered the product from somewhere. Do they have a record? Contacting that vendor would be my first step.


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## randolph333 (Feb 10, 2015)

Other than that, here's a link to LED tape suppliers in Shen Zhen. :-(


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Customer is not saying much, but I did find some stuff on amazon by LED wholesalers that looks similar to the tape he had. Maybe a lot of that tape looks similar, I don't know. If it is LED wholesaler, they claim their tape is dimmable. I couldn't find a driver that looked exactly like the one he has though. Maybe if I ignore it long enough he will decide he doesn't need a dimmer. If not, I'll look for a dimmable driver and go from there. Thanks for the comments.


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## randolph333 (Feb 10, 2015)

All LED tape is dimmable; they're just LEDS and put out more or less light depending on how the driver provides power. The dimming (or not) is provided by the driver, so that's the piece you need to look at.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

te12co2w said:


> I understand. He showed me a package some of his parts came in; Return address, Jing Sheng Zhou, Zhu Guang Road, Xi Li, Nan Shan district, Shen Zhen, Guang Dong, China. I will have to cruise the 'net and see if I can find any parts that look like what he got. If this turns into a big headache, I may just tell him this stuff is not dimmable. I roughed in for a single pole switch to above cabinets without knowing what kind of lights they wanted.


Maybe a good time to brush up on Chinese. :laughing:


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## randolph333 (Feb 10, 2015)

Fortuitously, I just learned a bit more about drivers for one of my own projects. I suspect what you have there is a magnetic dimming driver. If so, it probably looks somewhat like what is pictured here and will have some heft to it. You need an MLV (magnetic low voltage) dimmer for it to work properly. Here's Diode LED's list of compatible dimmers.

If the customer complains about flicker (and it will flicker) tell them they'll have to get an electronic driver.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Not all "L E D bulbs" are passive devices. The 12v types generally have circuits. 

You have the L E D circuitry thingy
You have the driver electronics 
If you're using a dimmer, then you've now got dimmer. 

All these things must be compatible.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Tape light no dim, no dim for you. Too cheap cheap.
Lights to dim bring much health, luck,happiness,and cost to bring more money.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Or, you can email those folks in China and wait a week to hear the same thing.


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## randolph333 (Feb 10, 2015)

Right, Electric Light, I wasn't thinking. I still suspect a magnetic driver; they're the cheapest.

In other topics, how would people suggest representing LED tape on lighting plans? I'm tempted to just draw thick dashed lines, but wonder if there might be something better.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

randolph333 said:


> Right, Electric Light, I wasn't thinking. I still suspect a magnetic driver; they're the cheapest.
> 
> In other topics, *how would people suggest representing LED tape on lighting plans*? I'm tempted to just draw thick dashed lines, but wonder if there might be something better.


You make the specification requirements 100 pages long, written by an attorney to cover your butt and make the vendor 101% responsible for any type of interoperability and performance issues conceivable.

You order samples. Try them out. Once you figure out the combination that works, you pray that the actual product shipments have not had engineering changes that cause adverse effects.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I do not dim tape lights. They are usually just fine off or on.
i have found that the type that dim have an integrated control.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

If the driver is dimable, it will say so on the driver label 95%+ of the time. Besides, you can't control a standard receptacle with a dimmer switch anyway. You have more to consider than just the driver being dimable.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

btharmy said:


> If the driver is dimable, it will say so on the driver label 95%+ of the time. Besides, you can't control a standard receptacle with a dimmer switch anyway. You have more to consider than just the driver being dimable.


The volt rated ones and mA rated ones are not the same. 
The mA rated ones are wired like Christmas lights that use tiny bulbs. The ones that use purpose specific, DC output "LED DRIVER" and dim using Lutron EcoSystem or 0-10v are very unlikely to have any issues. 

The "low voltage transformer" rated ones are wired like Xmas lights that use 120v bulbs in parallel. These are the ones that are designed also operate incandescent lamps like MR16s. 

This is the kind that where you must consider the dimmer, driver and the selected lamp(s) compatibility. This is the gist of what Lutron Electronics has to say and I wouldn't argue with what Lutron says. They know dimming far more than I do. 

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3683586_Challenges_of_Dimming_Whitepaper.pdf


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