# No AFCI? No problem!



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Got sent to finish a small kitchen remodel that some of my co-workers roughed. Called the boss to fill him in on materials we needed to finish it.

Me: "It's an old Challenger panel, you want me to pick up some Eaton arc faults at the Depot on my way over?" [we use Homeline on all our new construction and service upgrades.]

Boss: "Not in the budget, plus that GC still owes me money from the last job we did. Forget the arc faults."

Me: "No problem boss, you got it." :biggrin:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Why would you ever install them if you could get away with it?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Why would you ever install them if you could get away with it?



Since we mostly do new houses and larger renovations which are always permitted, opportunities like these don't come along often.

But yeah, they don't get installed when they don't have to be. :whistling2:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Since we mostly do new houses and larger renovations which are always permitted, opportunities like these don't come along often.
> 
> But yeah, they don't get installed when they don't have to be. :whistling2:


That's what I was saying, if this job wasn't getting inspected I would think installing AFCI's would be throwing away many hundreds of dollars.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I been on a remodel for 6 weeks
Using all existing breakers ..no afci's 
and best of all cash payments once a week

yep I'm a trunk slammer and lovvving it


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## LibertyRising (Jan 2, 2018)

I just got a kitchen remodel and panel upgrade (not service upgrade) priced assuming permits and inspections.

Homeowner accepted price and declined building permits. What can I say those AFCIs are going to turn into cash in my pocket.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

You are all deplorable for bragging about it. I love deplorable people btw so take this post as a sign of endearment.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> That's what I was saying, if this job wasn't getting inspected I would think installing AFCI's would be throwing away many hundreds of dollars.


I like material markup on AFCI breakers more than on regular breakers.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> I like material markup on AFCI breakers more than on regular breakers.


If you are able to get the job with the AFCI’s priced into it, then you are still able to get the job for the same price while putting that money in your pocket.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> If you are able to get the job with the AFCI’s priced into it, then you are still able to get the job for the same price while putting that money in your pocket.


I feel dishonest pricing something to code, and then not providing it that way, regardless of whether I can get away with it or not. The only real code I break often is 110.3(B), and the new 110.3(C). Apparently the NEC people don't think an electrician is smart enough to toss a starter or two in a cabinet and throw a go button and a stop button on the front and have it pass muster. AFCIs are small potatoes compared to UL listed enclosures for controls for the work we do now. I have also had a grand total of 2 nuisance trips from AFCIs in my time working, and both times it was the ground bent such on a receptacle that it touched a neutral screw.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> I feel dishonest pricing something to code, and then not providing it that way, regardless of whether I can get away with it or not.


You're not pricing it to code. You are pricing it as high as you can get. And you are not installing the stupid AFCI's if you don't have to, since they don't do anything other than nuisance trip.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Arrow3030 said:


> You are all deplorable for bragging about it. I love deplorable people btw so take this post as a sign of endearment.



Yes we're spreading the love here so much the utter _warmth_ can be felt 3 pro rooms away Arrow....

:vs_cool:
~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> I feel dishonest pricing something to code, and then not providing it that way, regardless of whether I can get away with it or not. .


At least you've_ some _scrupples....:wink:


:vs_cool:
~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> At least you've_ some _scrupples....:wink:
> 
> 
> :vs_cool:
> ~CS~


Yeah, I bet he doesn't do electrical work drunk either. 

It's 7:30AM. How much _hair of the dog_ have you had?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I reluctantly asked the inspector today if I had to upgrade the house to afci/gfci. He said "nope, not in a case like this (fire), would be a trouble with the neutrals."

Music to my ears.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

TGGT said:


> I reluctantly asked the inspector today if I had to upgrade the house to afci/gfci. He said "nope, not in a case like this (fire), would be a trouble with the neutrals."
> 
> Music to my ears.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Based on your other resi post I'm guessing this was a panel change. If yes, AFCI is not required per code. It's required when you add an outlet or extend a required circuit more than 10' (or is it 6'?).


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Arrow3030 said:


> Based on your other resi post I'm guessing this was a panel change. If yes, AFCI is not required per code. It's required when you add an outlet or extend a required circuit more than 10' (or is it 6'?).


6'



If it is getting inspected




By an inspector who actually gets out of the car and inspects things


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

TGGT said:


> I reluctantly asked the inspector today if I had to upgrade the house to afci/gfci. He said "nope, not in a case like this (fire), would be a trouble with the neutrals."
> 
> Music to my ears.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



Not _entirely_ true TG

Applying 1-pole Combination AFCIs to Shared Neutral Circuits

:vs_cool:

~CS~


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Switched said:


> 6'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's funny..

One time I was sitting in my van (out on the 
road in front of a job new home rough-in 
that i was starting .

The house next to it was a rough-in I just 
finished and was supposed to be getting 
a rough-in inspection.
A guy had pulled into that driveway.
He did not notice me sitting in my van on 
the road and I was looking to see if it 
was the county inspector , but the car was
not a county car.

First he sat in his car for 5-10 minutes.
Then I saw him walk into the garage 
where he was sort of lollygagging around
no clip board , not looking at any of the work.
He just stood in the garage for an eternity.

I was thinking .."what the eff is this 
guy doing?"

He then walked up into the house.

Curiosity got the best of me , so I walked
over there.

He was the inspector BTW.

He was around the corner in the powder 
room looking out the rear window 
smoking a cigarette.

I must have startled him cause he
hopped to it and started acting like 
he was inspecting the work...tugging
on all the horizontal romex runs 
(thru the bored holes)...like as if
that's what they look for .._yep 
all good here_...:001_huh:


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

OP........I hope you can sleep at night knowing you basically burned down a house full of orphans that were taking care of baby seals recovering from nearly being clubbed to death. Not to mention most of the orphans were pregnant. Also without those AFCI’s the ARC’s happening on every circuit backfed to the transformer and burned down the rest of the block in which one of the houses was full of AR15’s(loaded with bump stocks) that went off and killed the neighbors on the other side of the street. So sad.........you disgust me


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MotoGP1199 said:


> OP........I hope you can sleep at night knowing you basically burned down a house full of orphans that were taking care of baby seals recovering from nearly being clubbed to death. Not to mention most of the orphans were pregnant. Also without those AFCI’s the ARC’s happening on every circuit backfed to the transformer and burned down the rest of the block in which one of the houses was full of AR15’s(loaded with bump stocks) that went off and killed the neighbors on the other side of the street. So sad.........you disgust me


Jap bikes are gay.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Jap bikes are gay.


:biggrin:


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> Jap bikes are gay.


LOL........I really wish a US manufaturer would make a decent sport bike.

I require a motorcycle to do 3 things.
1. Accerlate
2. Turn
3. Brake

A Harley does non of those. If I wanted to go no wear and be comfortable I would stay home sitting on my couch.:devil3:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MotoGP1199 said:


> LOL........I really wish a US manufaturer would make a decent sport bike.
> 
> I require a motorcycle to do 3 things.
> 1. Accerlate
> ...


I will watch you on PD Live this Friday.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

MotoGP1199 said:


> OP........I hope you can sleep at night knowing you basically burned down a house full of orphans that were taking care of baby seals recovering from nearly being clubbed to death. Not to mention most of the orphans were pregnant. Also without those AFCI’s the ARC’s happening on every circuit backfed to the transformer and burned down the rest of the block in which one of the houses was full of AR15’s(loaded with bump stocks) that went off and killed the neighbors on the other side of the street. So sad.........you disgust me


He disgusts me too, but for completely different and arousing reasons.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> I will watch you on PD Live this Friday.


Why there? He's not from NC , Utah ,Texas , FLA or 
STREETSBORO OHIO (btw ...we call it "Streetstucky"

:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> He disgusts me too, but for completely different and arousing reasons.


you really should back off the ******
or whatever else your taking...damn


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

lighterup said:


> you really should back off the ******
> or whatever else your taking...damn


Even the electrical stuff? Did you see my old avatar?


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