# Switching locations



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

I cant believe i read that for no reason


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Mshow1323 said:


> ...
> 
> That's it, I'm building a single story and putting 27 switches next to my panel and walking away.


That would comply with the rules in the electrical code, for the most part. If there is a storage or equipment space, the light switch has to be at the normal point of entry to those spaces.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> That would comply with the rules in the electrical code, for the most part. If there is a storage or equipment space, the light switch has to be at the normal point of entry to those spaces.


I've always thought that was an embarrassing oversight by the committee.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Don't blame the NEC. Blame Harry. He made you switch.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*404.8(a)*

(A) LOCATION. ALL switches....operated from a readily accessible place......


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

leland said:


> (A) LOCATION. ALL switches....operated from a readily accessible place......


You're right I should have said that the article doesn't say that, I over looked that part. That being said:

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Quickly is subjective. I'm not trying to interpret what the code intends. I'm reading what the code has written. 

No one on earth would group their switches like this. I brought it up because, years ago a GC told me a switch outside a bedroom door was against code.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

leland said:


> (A) LOCATION. ALL switches....operated from a readily accessible place......


Not an issue with the 27 switches next to the panel...the breakers have to be readily accessible.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Mshow1323 said:


> 210.70 Lighting Outlets Required. Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C).
> (A) Dwelling Units. In dwelling units, lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3).
> (1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed *in* every habitable room and bathroom.
> Exception No. 1:  In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.
> ...


What part of "in" don't you understand?:laughing::laughing:


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

wendon said:


> What part of "in" don't you understand?:laughing::laughing:



(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.

Switch-controlled lighting outlet. 

Art. 100 Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire.

Seems to me a "lighting outlet" is not a switch, and therefore a lighting outlet or LIGHT FIXTURE (or switched recep) is required to be *in* the room

:bangin:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Mshow1323 said:


> (1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.
> 
> Switch-controlled lighting outlet.
> 
> ...


Man! I think you're onto something! And here I've been wasting time installing all those switch loops.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

leland said:


> (A) LOCATION. ALL switches....operated from a readily accessible place......


How about behind the door?

We have roughed in many places only to have the builder send out the wrong swing door. Too cheap to send it back, they hung it anyways.

Inspector did not make us move the wall switches, even though they are now a pain in the (insert favorite body part here) ....


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## Tigerloose (Dec 5, 2010)

deleted


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## mertabird (Nov 14, 2013)

kbsparky said:


> How about behind the door?
> 
> We have roughed in many places only to have the builder send out the wrong swing door. Too cheap to send it back, they hung it anyways.
> 
> Inspector did not make us move the wall switches, even though they are now a pain in the (insert favorite body part here) ....


Hate when that happens....

All this talk is pretty interesting... but practically speaking... if I were the AHJ... I'd make us put the switches in a sensible location whether the code absolutely requires it or not.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

mertabird said:


> Hate when that happens....
> 
> All this talk is pretty interesting... but practically speaking... if I were the AHJ... I'd make us put the switches in a sensible location whether the code absolutely requires it or not.


And you would be one those inspectors that everyone here b*tches about ! Making up rules as you go.
Keep in mind the code is not a design manual.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Mshow1323 said:


> That's it, I'm building a single story and putting 27 switches next to my panel and walking away.


Save the money on boxes and devices and let the breakers be the switches!


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

I'd pass the inspection, but i promise it would be the last job I did in the county


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

leland said:


> (A) LOCATION. ALL switches....operated from a readily accessible place......


The whole first floor, from two 10 gang switch boxes in the foyer.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> The whole first floor, from two 10 gang switch boxes in the foyer.


Fine with me as long as they are all wireless or multi-way masters and you've got remote/slaves everywhere else.

I've stuck them in wiring closets before when the masters didn't have the same look as the slaves and the HO wanted them all to match.

There is usually more dimmer hum/buzzing at the master. Lutron also sells an accessory coil to re-direct the noise to a closet.


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

I HATE switched outlets. So much so, that I am PROUD to say (even as a licensed electrician) that my house contains NO switched outlets. So, unless I evoke the phrase "under engineering supervision", my house technically does not meet code. However, designed under engineering supervision (mine), EVERY light in the house is controllable from ALL possible points of convenience, some from half a dozen or more locations, and ALL lights can be turned off from any room in the house.
I grew up in a house with lots of free standing lamps plugged in to switched outlets, some complicated by 3-way switches. You never knew whether the lamp had been turned off at the fixture or not. It always took me 3 or 4 tries to turn on the lights in the living room! I swore I would never build such a dysfunctional house. In my first house, I used a lot of relays. In this house, a PLC. My wife has been happy with my electrical engineering for 52 years.


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

By the way, EVERY inspector in the county saw that house. The chief inspector said he sent a different one each time because he wanted them all to see it! Mechanical, structural, plumbing, and electrical.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

That switched ceiling box is an outlet.


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

MikeFL said:


> That switched ceiling box is an outlet.


OOOHHH! Does that mean I DO meet code?


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

"Switched OUTLET" NOT "Switched RECEPTACLE"! ...subtle difference...


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

@GladMech how far away can the switch be?


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

They are not wireless, just very convenient configurable (by jumpers at the central terminal strip) 24VAC hardwiring. I have one box on a tree 150' from the house for a streetlight, garage, basement, and "all off". Since all switches are parallel, I can have as many as I want to the same device. Oh, btw, they are all momentary push on/push off, latched in the PLC program. Power goes off, comes back on, same lights will still be on.


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## InsptD (Jul 10, 2021)

In New Mexico the state electrical code calls out; that the switch must be within five feet of the door. That includes behind the door...


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