# Confusing 3 way switching



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

jbfan said:


> I have a friend that was changing his switches and receptacles out in his old home.
> 
> He ran into a problem on one of his 3 way circuits.
> 
> ...


 Feed through neutral. From your description, that is what it sounds like.

Draw it out.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jbfan said:


> I have a friend that was changing his switches and receptacles out in his old home.
> 
> He ran into a problem on one of his 3 way circuits.
> 
> ...


It sounds like he took apart a splice in the switch box.

I don't think you need a new wire you just need to ID the travelers between the 2 switches.


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

Not sure but this is how I'd wire it.

The feed is coming into to s1. Black on common, white connected straight through onto white of 3 wire. Black and red of 3 wire are travelers.

3 wire comes into fixture. White on white of lamp. Black and red connected with red and white of 2nd 3 wire as travelers inside fixture. Black of the 2nd 3 wire connected to light.

2nd 3way - red and white as travelers, black as common.

Hope that helps.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Turn power of and take both switches out.

Turn power on and identify the ONE wire of the six that has power. Turn power back off.

Take that one wire and hook up to the COMMON terminal of a switch. Hook the other two to the traveller terminals.

Turn power back on, and identify the one wire at the other switch location that has power. Flip the installed 3-way, and another wire will have power. Those two are the travellers for the second switch.

Turn the power off and install the two travellers to the traveller terminals of the second 3-way, and the odd third wire to the common.

Turn power on and it should work.


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## knowledge29 (Nov 6, 2010)

you mean "travelers".


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Travelers are small bands of Irish men that do low quality home repairs and scoot off to the next town.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Aegis said:


> Not sure but this is how I'd wire it.
> 
> The feed is coming into to s1. Black on common, white connected straight through onto white of 3 wire. Black and red of 3 wire are travelers.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. I would probably still use the BK/R on the 3-wire to S2 as the travelers, and re-identify the white as an ungrounded conductor.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
When I arrived this morning, he had pulled a switch leg to S2 and we wired it that way.

The neutrals were not switched, and no connections had been distrubed at S1.
All the original connections were soldered.

It was worth it to make him crawl into the attic anyway!

Thanks.


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

jbfan said:


> Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
> When I arrived this morning, he had pulled a switch leg to S2 and we wired it that way.
> 
> The neutrals were not switched, and no connections had been distrubed at S1.
> ...


Nice job on the attic crawling  lol was the new wire you pulled a 3 wire?

I'm still kind of wondering why the whole setup wouldn't work with the existing wiring. Unless he's got rats that are having a snack on the travelers.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Wired back in 85' you should have two whites for the light fixture as the blk/rd travelers get tied thru at the fixture. White should be the common at S2 unless a color swap was done at the fixture


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Aegis said:


> Nice job on the attic crawling  lol was the new wire you pulled a 3 wire?
> 
> I'm still kind of wondering why the whole setup wouldn't work with the existing wiring. Unless he's got rats that are having a snack on the travelers.


 
It was a 2 wire.
In the fixture, I made up the 3 wire color to color.
Basicly it is hot to S1, 3 wire to S2, and switch leg to fixture.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

This sounds pretty basic. How did you have trouble figuring this out?


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

jbfan said:


> It was a 2 wire.
> In the fixture, I made up the 3 wire color to color.
> Basicly it is hot to S1, 3 wire to S2, and switch leg to fixture.


So you have 5 wires in the box of S2? What are the other 2 wires doing?

EDIT: did you bring the neutral down to s2?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

If I'm reading it correctly...

The neutral is going from S1 to the light on the white wire.

The red and black from S1 are the travelers, tie them straight through the fixture J-box to the red and black from S2. The 3rd wire from S2 to the light will be the switch leg.

This set-up will only work with one light; if you add more then you won't physically have enough wires to have both a switch leg and a neutral (unless you get some 4-wire cable).


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## ptcrtn (Mar 14, 2011)




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## IBEW191 (Apr 4, 2011)

I replaced a set of three ways at my moms house, put it back the just the way it was wired before and it didn't work right. The travelers were on the bottom of the switch instead of the side. Quick fix but a pain non the less.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Is it just me, or is it surprising to anyone else that so many professional, skilled electricians have such a hard time with three way switches???


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Travelers are small bands of Irish men that do low quality home repairs and scoot off to the next town.


:thumbsup::lol::yes:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B W E said:


> Is it just me, or is it surprising to anyone else that so many professional, skilled electricians have such a hard time with three way switches???


I came across one a few weeks ago in an oooooooooold house that had the following:

14-2 from S1 to light

Two 14-2s from S2 to light.

I figured out how it worked but it was all sorts of messed up.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

B W E said:


> Is it just me, or is it surprising to anyone else that so many professional, skilled electricians have such a hard time with three way switches???


After 3 months in the trade wiring track homes i remembered the line side and load side, relative to switch boxes and never feed a 3 way thru the light box :no: pwr . in 1 switch box or the other, you have 2 choices:whistling2:To confuse them a little bit more, a 3 way switch is a single pole double throw and a 4 way is a double pole double throw ... :thumbsup:


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

erics37 said:


> I came across one a few weeks ago in an oooooooooold house that had the following:
> 
> 14-2 from S1 to light
> 
> ...


WHO has come across what they call COAST system AKA A 3-WAY pain in the arse...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

ce2two said:


> WHO has come across what they call COAST system AKA A 3-WAY pain in the arse...



You mean a California 3-way?

I have. Twice.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

480sparky said:


> You mean a California 3-way?
> 
> I have. Twice.


I found a coast system 3 way in a victorian home in los feliz california... in 1982:whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

ce2two said:


> I found a coast system 3 way in a victorian home in los feliz california... in 1982:whistling2:



I'm sure there's many out there that were created by pure, dumb, blind luck of some DIYer who quit once it worked.


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## Ontariojer (May 19, 2011)

B W E said:


> Is it just me, or is it surprising to anyone else that so many professional, skilled electricians have such a hard time with three way switches???


I too used to marvel at this, then I realized that the people who have trouble with this kind of stuff are rarely the troubleshooter type, instead they are the installation type. Some people are both. Most people aren't. 

Just for fun, ask a group of electricians why you don't have to upsize the neutral on a 15a mwbc(don't reply to this people, I know how it works). If you understand electrical theory, I think you will be shocked by the discussion among JM electricians.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Sounds like a normal 3way run through the fixture. I don't like them that way, but I have wired one or two because it had to be done for box fill reasons.


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

I've come across this also when the feed is in the drop ceiling in 5" box on a CBS bar. Feeds up at the box and two three wires up from the switches. Noodle right to the fixture and travelers go together. Then you're left with a switch leg. I hardly think you have to be a troubleshooter to figure out 3 ways. California style is weird if u haven't done any work in old homes.

Too be honest I don't know many electricians that are only installers and have problems with 3 ways. We learned 3 way systems as apprentices in school. I guess there are a few morons in every trade though


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