# ? To charge for cans



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

It would depend on a number of things...

What type of cans/trims?
How far do you have to fish?
Patching?
Where's the switch?
Wiring method?


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

$999/Can


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Jeeeezzz. Going rate?? Only fools use that term


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

keepdry said:


> What is the going rate for installing remodel cans in an existing unacesaible ceiling?


Are you just replacing a surface mount fixture with a recessed light?


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## keepdry (Jul 24, 2012)

aftershockews said:


> Are you just replacing a surface mount fixture with a recessed light?


Removing two surface mount fixtures. Replacing them with 6 cans.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

keepdry said:


> What is the going rate for installing remodel cans in an existing unacesaible ceiling?


$325..:thumbup:
On anything like this you need to figure out how much per hour your labor is worth,How long it will take to install one can included in that time is going to get the can pay for it ,job set up and clean up.On the link provided there is a cost calculator,Use it to find out what your labor is worth with all of your business costs included,,add that all up and give your customer a grand total price for the whole job.Your calculations should be based on 1,000 billable hours per year.

http://www.electricalflatrate.com/


..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Paging B4T.

Going rate question.

B4T to the Resi Forum, please.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

keepdry said:


> Removing two surface mount fixtures. Replacing them with 6 cans.


Get the customer to supply the cans and figure how long it would take or you supply the cans+mark up and figure how long it would take.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

aftershockews said:


> Get the customer to supply the cans and figure how long it would take or you supply the cans+mark up and figure how long it would take.


Why throw away the profit you can make from the cans?:blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Why throw away the profit you can make from the cans?:blink:


As well as have to eff around making the customer-supplied can legal? They'll be more than happy to supply the ones without a jbox, whip and hanger straps.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> As well as have to eff around making the customer-supplied can legal? They'll be more than happy to supply the ones without a jbox, whip and hanger straps.


Well of course they would. They were the cheapest ones!


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

tree-fiddy....final answer


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Celtic said:


> tree-fiddy....final answer


.03..:thumbup:


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

What do you mean "unacesaible"/inaccessible?

If you can still drill through joists, for a standard step baffle line voltage can, $140/per is a good starting point depending on what you need.

Hopefully you can grab the feed somewhere near where one of your recessed lights is going. So remove fixture, install 6 standard 5" recessed step baffles would be right around $1k.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Where in IL. are you? There is a guy on craigslist for 99 per can light.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/sks/3519737082.html 
There is your going rate :laughing: Cant get any better than 1983 pricing 

to add further insult http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/sks/3519739143.html


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> Where in IL. are you? There is a guy on craigslist for 99 per can light.
> http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/sks/3519737082.html
> There is your going rate :laughing: Cant get any better than 1983 pricing
> 
> to add further insult http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/sks/3519739143.html


I flagged his ads..:laughing:


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> I flagged his ads..:laughing:


Your going to have to do it every single day. He is on there multiple times and every single day. No matter what day I look he is there. The sad part he is Licensed and insured and ligit. I guess it is cool if your the king of craigslist :whistling2:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> I flagged his ads..:laughing:





SVT CAMR said:


> Your going to have to do it every single day. He is on there multiple times and every single day. No matter what day I look he is there. The sad part he is Licensed and insured and ligit. I guess it is cool if your the king of craigslist :whistling2:



Harry...
If he is legit, why are you flagging him?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

On Craigslist he offers fan installs for $59, but on his business website he installs for $199...WTF


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

drspec said:


> On Craigslist he offers fan installs for $59, but on his business website he installs for $199...WTF


yeah thats strange. But who an I to question. We all know what happened to me.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Celtic said:


> Harry...
> If he is legit, why are you flagging him?


It would not have any effect anyway it take a bunch of them to flag them off.

And I was just trying to give you guys a chuckle,,I did not flag his ads It's Not my business.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

drspec said:


> On Craigslist he offers fan installs for $59, but on his business website he installs for $199...WTF


That's just bait and I'll bet he does not honor that.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> That's just bait and I'll bet he does not honor that.


How the hell does one stay in business buy not honoring their Ads?

or better yet how do you hang a fan for 59 and install cans for 99 and stay in business?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> How the hell does one stay in business buy not honoring their Ads?


Upselling.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Upselling.


Really? I read the ad it says cans 99 and comes with a switch.

So I call you out to have 4 cans installed in my kitchen and the switch is included and you tell me no cans are 200 each and switches are 250. Then you up sell me? A $400 job just became a $1050. 

This what you call upselling? I call it dishonest and a outright lie. Then I throw you out. :laughing:


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Here there are so many electricians that offer cheap work in the 40-50 an hour range. Wonder how they make any money with insurance and all the costs of doing business.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> Really? I read the ad it says cans 99 and comes with a switch.
> 
> So I call you out to have 4 cans installed in my kitchen and the switch is included and you tell me no cans are 200 each and switches are 250. Then you up sell me? A $400 job just became a $1050.
> 
> This what you call upselling? I call it dishonest and a outright lie. Then I throw you out. :laughing:



No.. that's called bait and switch.

Upselling is installing the 4 cans and the switch for the advertised price...... then getting a panel swap for $1800 out of the deal.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

SVT CAMR said:


> How the hell does one stay in business buy not honoring their Ads?
> 
> or better yet how do you hang a fan for 59 and install cans for 99 and stay in business?





480sparky said:


> Upselling.





SVT CAMR said:


> Really? I read the ad it says cans 99 and comes with a switch.
> 
> So I call you out to have 4 cans installed in my kitchen and the switch is included and you tell me no cans are 200 each and switches are 250. Then you up sell me? A $400 job just became a $1050.
> 
> This what you call upselling? I call it dishonest and a outright lie. Then I throw you out. :laughing:





480sparky said:


> No.. that's called bait and switch.
> 
> Upselling is installing the 4 cans and the switch for the advertised price...... then getting a panel swap for $1800 out of the deal.


um :blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> How the hell does one stay in business buy not honoring their Ads?
> 
> or better yet how do you hang a fan for 59 and install cans for 99 and stay in business?


They do that all the time they hit the customer once and never go there again.

That guy may have money in the bank from a wind fall and that is how he is doing it.

However the money will run out at those prices.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> um :blink:


What don't you understand?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> No.. that's called bait and switch.
> 
> .


we are offering a winter special, a 33 point_ 'panel inspection'_ for $30 

this is tool less, save for unscrewing the panel cover

participants need only print out & present our web site coupon

oh, and you get a free panel schedule......:whistling2:

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

as to the OP

this is_ 'old work'_

_not _new construction......

unless you've Xray eyes, any fixed $$$ would need to be rather high

this is why we have T&M, T&M isn't the glorious profit fixed pricing can be, but it'll beat out anyone thinking they DO have Xray eyes every time

like it or not, we are a_ competitive_ trade folks.....

~CS~


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> um :blink:


think about it....you add some lights...next thing ya know, the ckts overloaded.
who is gonna fix that?


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Celtic said:


> think about it....you add some lights...next thing ya know, the ckts overloaded.
> who is gonna fix that?


Not saying this could not happen. That was not my point. Highly unlikely though you trip a breaker with a four cans added. Could happen though. I would not cut pricing 50% because of work that COULD happen as a result. 

*Please read post #25 and tell me that answer even makes sense. i asked him "how does one stay in business by not honoring their ads". his response was "upsell" :blink:
The rest of his responses after we're to prove his point on another agenda so he could be right. *

Your not going to walk into someone's home who read an ad for 99 per can or 59 for a fan swap and then all of the sudden double or almost quadruple your price on these specific items. It is dishonest and would discredit you immediately. Who would want to do business with you. it would be a waste of both parties time. 

You can try to sell more work though. I do agree with that. Nothing wrong there.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> .........
> You can try to sell more work though. I do agree with that. Nothing wrong there.


That's what upselling is.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Again please read post #25 and tell me this makes sense. In fact this is how our exchange of posts started. 

This entire thread and situation is moot because neither you or I would act or charge in this manner putting ads that are not real and if they are real it's a looser from the word go in 90% of the cases. So I'm just letting it go after your final response.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> Again please read post #25 and tell me this makes sense. In fact this is how our exchange of posts started.
> 
> This entire thread and situation is moot because neither you or I would act or charge in this manner putting ads that are not real and if they are real it's a looser from the word go in 90% of the cases. So I'm just letting it go after your final response.



Try reading yourself.



480sparky said:


> No.. that's called bait and switch.
> 
> Upselling is installing the 4 cans and the switch for the advertised price...... then getting a panel swap for $1800 out of the deal.


I stated he DOES do the installs for the advertised price. Then he UPSELLS. A panel swap for $1800. Or a new service for $2250.

Again: He installs what he says he will for the price advertised.

It's call a_ Loss Leader_.


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## CTC Electrical (Jan 5, 2013)

We don't use flat rate pricing. There are just too many variables to make it work for our company. 

As for the CL guys, I don't worry about what they are doing. We don't use CL to generate business, never have and never will.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> Not saying this could not happen. That was not my point. Highly unlikely though you trip a breaker with a four cans added. Could happen though. I would not cut pricing 50% because of work that COULD happen as a result.
> 
> *Please read post #25 and tell me that answer even makes sense. i asked him "how does one stay in business by not honoring their ads". his response was "upsell" :blink:
> The rest of his responses after we're to prove his point on another agenda so he could be right. *
> ...



There is a very common business practice - used primarily in retail - called a "loss leader".

The retailer knowingly sells an item for less than anyone could imagine. A certain percentage of people will buy that one item and whatever else is on sale and move onto the next store and the next sale. There will be another percentage of folks that come to buy this "sale of the week" item....and then load their cart with other items that may or may not be sale....that are priced substantially higher than other stores....etc.

Its a gamble, sure....but retailers have been doing it for some time, so obviously it works.

Why couldn't a contractor use that same concept?
You call for a $59 fan install....only to discover the box is not rated, there is only a single pole switch (or no switch at all)....the installer "notices" your recept. and plates are broken/painted/missing etc....he tells how nice a dimmer on the DR chandelier is.....how unsightly all those cable boxes, dvrs, game consoles are under that stunning flat screen TV ~ even though there is NO flat screen TV there.

Use some imagination.

Get the picture?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> It's call a_ Loss Leader_.



I hadn't even seen your post until AFTER I replied to SVT...LOL :jester:


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

I said I was not going to reply but out of respect for you taking the time to post I will. 

Thanks for the defination of lost leader. 

I completely understand. I also completely understand what an upsell is. 

The reason I went on and on was because in post # 25 I thought 480 implied that it was ok to have dishonest ads from his reply of upsell

I understand hang ceiling fan for 59 and the box is not rated and you upsell the box change. I understand that cans are 99 and he could possibly do a service upgrade. 

I also understand this ad posted on CL is not some weekly or monthly special...it is normal operations for this guy. 

I also wonder how many of the cheap people he deals with on CL that tell him get out If you won't hang the fan for 59 as advertised. I also wonder how many cans he puts in with switch included and the people say no that's all we want. I guess it is not for everyone. I know one thing it is not for me.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> I guess it is not for everyone. I know one thing it is not for me.


Nor I....but it is what it is.


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

I usually get about $150 for first can , 100 for each additional......

Rule #38 never trust Craigslist


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

LegacyofTroy said:


> I usually get about $150 for first can , 100 for each additional......


I keep the price the same.
why drop it?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Celtic said:


> I keep the price the same.
> why drop it?



The first can covers the trip costs.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

480sparky said:


> The first can covers the trip costs.


 

So does dividing the trip cost by the number of cans and adding that amount to each can. Each can should cost the same amount.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> I said I was not going to reply but out of respect for you taking the time to post I will.
> Thanks for the defination of lost leader.


It's a loss leader

This is a Lost Leader :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> So does dividing the trip cost by the number of cans and adding that amount to each can. Each can should cost the same amount.



So you give a price for 12 cans to Joe Smith. You divide the total cost by 12, and bill for 12 cans per. For example, you say you will install 12 cans for $1200. 

You get there, and they say the only want 8. Do you install the 8 for $800?



Whatever you decide, Joe's neighbor sees your work and calls you. "I want you to install a recessed light in my basement stairway. It's totally finished, and I don't want any drywall damage." Do you install that one for a c-note?


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

Understand that it's $150 for first can, $100 for each additional, very simple math.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> The first can covers the trip costs.


$100 is not enough for a can


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

LegacyofTroy said:


> Understand that it's $150 for first can, $100 for each additional, very simple math.


looks like get-in-debt-quick scheme to me.
how much does the can cost (COG)?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Celtic said:


> looks like get-in-debt-quick scheme to me.
> how much does the can cost (COG)?


 I get Juno 6" remodel cans, trims and lamps for somewhere around $16.


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## Auselect (Dec 2, 2011)

drspec said:


> I get Juno 6" remodel cans, trims and lamps for somewhere around $16.


That's a great price....supply house or online?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Auselect said:


> That's a great price....supply house or online?


Local supply house. I'm always beating my salesman up on pricing. He is also the branch manager.
It's an OK price for a little man like me with no buying power. But I get pretty comparable prices that the big boys get.

I think my trims are around $2.50 each.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> It's a loss leader
> 
> This is a Lost Leader :laughing:


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::icon_redface:


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

On bids we charge $150. per can and $50. per single switch. I can understand this bid on rooms with 4 or more cans because of the time to align them, but I have started lowering the bid for something like a shower can or 2 or 3 cans in a closet.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Celtic said:


> $100 is not enough for a can


$100 is just an example.

The first can price is the cost of installing the can AND the trip charge. Each can after that is the cost of installing the can.

Simple enough?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

LegacyofTroy said:


> I usually get about $150 for first can , 100 for each additional......
> 
> 
> 
> ...





480sparky said:


> $100 is just an example.
> 
> The first can price is the cost of installing the can AND the trip charge. Each can after that is the cost of installing the can.
> 
> Simple enough?


No it isn't "simple enough"....no where did anyone say "$100 is just an example" until now.
Even as an example...1988 wants their price book back...:laughing:










Pretty sure I posted that in 2005ish

Now thats simple.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Celtic said:


> No it isn't "simple enough"....no where did anyone say "$100 is just an example" until now.........



Try again.



480sparky said:


> So you give a price for 12 cans to Joe Smith. You divide the total cost by 12, and bill for 12 cans per. For example, you say you will install 12 cans for $1200.
> 
> You get there, and they say the only want 8. Do you install the 8 for $800?
> 
> ...


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Try again.


Fail


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Celtic said:


> I Failed to see the obvious


FIFY :laughing:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480...just because you injected some mythical job priced at $100/can in post #*49*, that doesn't change what was said in #*44* 10 hours earlier....by someone else :whistling2:.


Nice try at re-writing history.
You get another F
FAIL


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Celtic said:


> 480...just because you injected some mythical job priced at $100/can in post #*49*, that doesn't change what was said in #*44* 10 hours earlier....by someone else :whistling2:.
> 
> 
> Nice try at re-writing history.
> ...



Don't the *WORDS* FOR EXAMPLE mean..... _FOR EXAMPLE?

_You say in Post 59 ".no where did anyone say '$100 is just an example" until now.' Doesn't Post 49 prove otherwise?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Don't the *WORDS* FOR EXAMPLE mean..... _FOR EXAMPLE?
> 
> _You say in Post 59 ".no where did anyone say '$100 is just an example" until now.' Doesn't Post 49 prove otherwise?


If you makes you feel better, sure.


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

$9 dollars /can and $2.50/ trim, I have only 10 mile radius, $150 first can , $175 if it's shower trim, $100 for additional, (in same area, same switch) , new room, $150 , .....then I carry several types of switches/covers/dimmers for upsale.......bulbs extra..but I got those too.......anyways...I win


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Celtic said:


> If you makes you feel better, sure.


Dude don't get sucked in by 480 changing the point in the middle of the debate.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> Dude don't get sucked in by 480 changing the point in the middle of the debate.


Ask him about a Ford Transit. :laughing: :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> Dude don't get sucked in by 480 changing the point in the middle of the debate.


I changed no point. Im not responsible for anyone else's inability to read and comprehend the words.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Ask him about a Ford Transit. :laughing: :no:


Isn't that "changing the point"?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

```

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```

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480sparky said:


> Isn't that "changing the point"?


isn't that the point:laughing:


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## sparkyforlife (Sep 4, 2012)

"You want to charge me $150 a light?!?! I was at home depot the other day and the housing cost was $15 why so much?!?!?"

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

We've retro'd thousands of cielings for cans amongst ourselves, obviously some go easy, some hard. 

But to claim there can be a solid ###'s for all the unknowns in an old work situation _relies _on said ###'s being the profitable common denominator of volume sales

So , if your a specialty_ 'can electrician'_ , or have run some kind of promotional can offer , and all you do is install cans, you might come about an all inclusive ###

And that ### would _still_ need to be within the realm of competitiveness , which no sparky can exist outside of for long....

or to twist an old addage ...>

You can _can_ some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time....

~CS~


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