# Home automation



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Crestron.

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## erica (Apr 11, 2011)

Sub it out.


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## BEAMEUP (Sep 19, 2008)

I do the very High end to the entry level stuff, if you dont already know your systems and pricing, I would not attempt to do a high end system. The low end systems I do are HAI with Russound with leviton Z-Wave switches to start with.

The high end stuff is starting upwards of 100k and going into the 10m+ range and if this is what your client wants then I would sub it out.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Sorry Marc, AMX trumps Crestron in platform ability, programmability, and installer friendly use of standard CAT 5/6 cabling between devices.

AMX also has a partner company that provides an app for iPads to act as system controllers. 

I have found their customer and programmer support to be superior too. 

Cost is usually lower as well..but one must remember we are still talking big bucks for the integration either Crestron or AMX provides. 

I have literally made a toilet flush with an AMX system. :thumbup:

(It was stated to me a a request by a client, so during rough I got together with the plumbers and we set up the screening room's toilet to be electrically controlled. I ran the LV cable to the commode area, and during final we hooked it up. After the room was done and I was showing the client how to use the touchpanel, he saw the toilet icon and said "What's this?" I told him to push it and see what happens. The look on his face when the screening room toilet flushed was priceless. :laughing: He then said to me "You do know I was joking, right?" And I said (honestly) "You were very serious when you made the request so I had it done." "Oh, " he replied. "How much did it cost?" I told him no charge, I paid for it (and I did because I wanted to see it happen myself). He laughed then wrote me a check to reimburse me for it. :thumbup: For several months afterward he would call me and tell how much fun his guests had when he used that button. )


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Ford vs Chevy. 

I replied Crestron because that's really all I have any experience with.

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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Any good home automation courses out there vendor or otherwise?


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

i am a big fan of control 4, only because it is so modular, and you can do most anything with it, but im allways looking for next best thing... any suggestions?


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

allmost all my mid to upper end houses are C4 now.. but lookin for something newer or better to sell


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Hey MXslick, what is AMX. sounds like a good product. have you ever used control4 if so, is AMX superior to it?, I have not used this product,but i am interested in it. c4 you dont do any lv wiring to speak of (excluding Audio/video). is AMX all LV comm wiring between switches or only certain circumstances?.C4 can control every aspect of your house,hot water,pool&spa heat,PIP on TV for doorbell, lighting,home haeting/cooling,you can turn off your kids tv and lights whenever you decide from your iphone,but it still cant put the popcorn in the microwave for you and thats what im looking for..


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Ford vs Chevy.
> 
> I replied Crestron because that's really all I have any experience with.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app


No offense intended sir. I have had experience with both, and AMX won out in my applications. 



AFOREMA1 said:


> Any good home automation courses out there vendor or otherwise?


Yes, AMX and Crestron both offer courses (on their respective products only of course) but be prepared to break out your wallet. It is however worth the cost if you plan on getting involved in any level of home automation though. 



rnr electric said:


> Hey MXslick, what is AMX. sounds like a good product. have you ever used control4 if so, is AMX superior to it?, I have not used this product,but i am interested in it. c4 you dont do any lv wiring to speak of (excluding Audio/video). is AMX all LV comm wiring between switches or only certain circumstances?.C4 can control every aspect of your house,hot water,pool&spa heat,PIP on TV for doorbell, lighting,home haeting/cooling,you can turn off your kids tv and lights whenever you decide from your iphone,but it still cant put the popcorn in the microwave for you and thats what im looking for..


AMX is more reliable than any other system out there (Crestron also has very high reliability). I have not had experience with c4, but if it is all wireless there are always possibilities of interference or incomplete signal transmission so reliability can suffer. AMX (and Crestron) is indeed wired between the Master Controller and most devices (touchpanels are frequently wireless) but relays, switches, dimmers, etc. are wired. AMX is using CAT cable (I am not sure if Crestron has also made CAT-wired hardware available yet...Marc?) but Crestron I am familiar with uses a proprietary cable (CresNet) which is a shielded pair and 2cond. power cable. (If you've done any Lutron Grafik Eye it is similar.) 

EDIT: Crestron's new series of controllers is indeed CAT wired now as well. 

With the hardware AMX has available, and a good programmer, you can literally do anything with relative ease. 

AMX's products: http://amx.com/products/

Crestron: http://www.crestron.com/products/


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## Frank Mc (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi Guys

For DIY Home Automation i would recommend Homevison....

http://www.csi3.com/homevis2.htm

I have one and it controls my CBUS Lighting (hard wired system)...This link has some Clipsal CBUS info...

http://www.cleverhome.com.au/products/light.html

Heres a link to my hobby site which has some CBUS Lighting info which may interest some....
http://www.hobby.armaghelectrical.com.au/page38.html

HTH
Frank


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## csdesigner (Jun 1, 2011)

mxslick, what is the make/model of the toilet you were able to control from AMX?
I have a similar requirement from a client.
We will be using Crestron.


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## johnsmithabe (May 3, 2011)

depends on technology and technicians.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I have a bunch of single pole and 3-way switches in my house. Does that count as a home automation system? :laughing:


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## johnsmithabe (May 3, 2011)

good links


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Crestron for full integration 


I have to add, my buddy installs a lot of Vantage systems.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I have a bunch of single pole and 3-way switches in my house. Does that count as a home automation system? :laughing:


 I once built a custom home where the H/O had us install about a dozen 3-ways next to their bed so they could turn lights on and off from there.... I still wonder what happens if they ever decide to move their bed. 

-John


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

csdesigner said:


> mxslick, what is the make/model of the toilet you were able to control from AMX?
> I have a similar requirement from a client.
> We will be using Crestron.


That was many years ago and I honestly do not remember the specifics of the toilet/flush valve used. All I provided with the AMX was a dry contact closure for the flush valve. IIRC the valve was 12vdc. 

The flush valve and toilet were spec'd and provided by the plumbing contractor. 

At UC Irvine all the new toilet/urinals are electric flush valves, with IR sensors. Sloan makes the valves and the toilets are Kohler.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Big John said:


> I once built a custom home where the H/O had us install about a dozen 3-ways next to their bed so they could turn lights on and off from there.... I still wonder what happens if they ever decide to move their bed.
> 
> -John


I had a Japanese customer who had me do that too. Only he asked for 4 ways in case he did decide to move the bed. 3 sets of 15 in just the master bedroom alone.


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## roflwaffle (Jun 4, 2011)

I like X10 because of it's cost and the ease of scripting for it via any computer w/ a serial or USB interface, but figuring out where and why signals die/do weird things can be a pain.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

roflwaffle said:


> I like X10 because of it's cost and the ease of scripting for it via any computer w/ a serial or USB interface, but figuring out where and why signals die/do weird things can be a pain.


Having been an "X10 contractor" for a while.. For the most part - that stuff is garbage.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

no matter what you decide to install there will be something better in a years time...Control 4 seems to be the easiest to work with. Just install the switches, a little programing and away you go. 
I can see it being worth your while if you live in a serious Mansion but for most homes its just something to play with.
The only thing that I find worth while is the control four for your thermostat. Other than than who cares if you can tell that your dishwasher is running..? 
Just my two cents..


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## robstyles21 (May 12, 2010)

We recently started to get involved in installing home automation systems. We've done one Vantage and one Crestron so far. The Crestron project is in the process of being programmed this week and the Vantage job is still a few months away. As the electrical contractor we did the entire installation aside from the programming which we subbed out. My questions for those who have experience in installing these systems are:

1. Is it normal practice for the EC to do the installation of the hardware (ie. panels, modules, keypads, wiring, etc.) and have a programmer do the software programming?
2. If I were to take the next step and get certified in the software programming aspect, which brand would you recommend? If I went with Crestron for example, would I have a good enough understanding to handle the programming of a Control 4 system or would I need to be trained in each specific brand?

I've also done one Marlin system for a University ballroom and programmed that one on my own. Very simple.

Thanks.


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## valeech (Jun 21, 2011)

For super a hi-end system check out SavantAV (http://www.savantav.com/).

It is a system built completely off of Apple Mac Mini computers and is quite impressive. Better have the bucks though.


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## CheapCharlie (Feb 4, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I had a Japanese customer who had me do that too. Only he asked for 4 ways in case he did decide to move the bed. 3 sets of 15 in just the master bedroom alone.


Sounds like a lot of work for that. How the heck would he know from his bedroom which ones to switch to turn off lights? Up or down could be on for a 3-way or 4-way!! One of those things...you pay me, I'll put it in...lol


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

robstyles21 said:


> We recently started to get involved in installing home automation systems. We've done one Vantage and one Crestron so far. The Crestron project is in the process of being programmed this week and the Vantage job is still a few months away. As the electrical contractor we did the entire installation aside from the programming which we subbed out. My questions for those who have experience in installing these systems are:
> 
> 1. Is it normal practice for the EC to do the installation of the hardware (ie. panels, modules, keypads, wiring, etc.) and have a programmer do the software programming?
> 2. If I were to take the next step and get certified in the software programming aspect, which brand would you recommend? If I went with Crestron for example, would I have a good enough understanding to handle the programming of a Control 4 system or would I need to be trained in each specific brand?
> ...


In my experiences:

1: The EC (or LV tech) would do the wiring and rough-in of panel mounts/in-wall cans. The LV tech would install all of the keypads, etc, during trim. Programming was subbed out in most cases (until I got proficient at programming then I started to do it all myself.)

2: My personal preference is for AMX (see post #5) but Crestron is also quite good. I can't speak for Control 4 because I have not used it, but the basic answer to the question of understanding is no. AMX and Crestron use totally different protocols and programming codes, so learning one will not help much with the other. You will need to be trained and certified in each brand. 

If you wish to do extensive automation work, either sub out to an established, authorized from the equipment mfgr. dealer/installer, or get one or more of your employees certified.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

csdesigner said:


> mxslick, what is the make/model of the toilet you were able to control from AMX?
> I have a similar requirement from a client.
> We will be using Crestron.


??????? Is the handle too hard to use? Just asking. It sounds neat, but is it realistic? What if you walk by the panel and forget to push the flush icon? Close the door and let it sit there for a while. Ewwww.


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## meldel (Apr 8, 2011)

does any one knows savant? it is a really good product and it works on mac os


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