# Todays Callback, last months callback



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Both houses have 109 to 111 volts at receptacles, can this be a factor ?


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

How far from the tranny was the GFI breaker?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> How far from the tranny was the GFI breaker?


1st one was cord and plug, 3' the second hardwired, about 10'


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> 1st one was cord and plug, 3' the second hardwired, about 10'


I would try a 20 amp GFCI and breaker and see what happens. And loose the cooper crap I had the same thing happen, replaced it with a 20amp leviton and all is well, the same install went through 2 cooper 15amps before I got to it.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Has anyone encountered any problems like this concerning GFI's and transformers recently?
> Is there any known reason for these failures? I don't want to leave lighting around the pool not GFI protected but I also don't want to volunteer my time and fuel for fixing Junk products. The next burn out will result in non GFI replacement and the NFPA70 can suck my d***


A few times, yes I have. 

My fix was the same as your fix.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

You switch the transformer or the LV lights?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

brian john said:


> You switch the transformer or the LV lights?


feed to transformer is switched on one, the other is controlled by a electric eye..


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Why are you blaming the GFCI when it is likely the POS LV transformer?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Why are you blaming the GFCI when it is likely the POS LV transformer?


Their not POS lv transfgormers, one is a stainless steel 500 watt fused and the other a 500 watt fused. they don't trip the gfi, the pc boards in the gfi's, both outlet and breaker smoke.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Their not POS lv transfgormers, one is a stainless steel 500 watt fused and the other a 500 watt fused. they don't trip the gfi, the pc boards in the gfi's, both outlet and breaker smoke.


Do you have a way of measuring the current inrush, like a clamp meter with min/max or a dmm with a clamp?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Do you have a way of measuring the current inrush, like a clamp meter with min/max or a dmm with a clamp?


Got one although it was not used . Guess i should have pulled it out but I'm quick to blame todays manufacturing of the code mandated components.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Got one although it was not used . Guess i should have pulled it out but I'm quick to blame todays manufacturing of the code mandated components.


I would bet you catch a nice little spike on start up.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I would bet you catch a nice little spike on start up.


 I can't see that toasting the pc board though, sine waves ?


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I can't see that toasting the pc board though, sine waves ?


When the GFCI outlet toasts does it trip the breaker upstream?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> When the GFCI outlet toasts does it trip the breaker upstream?


no, the hardwired one toasted the breaker, i dissected it as well as the outlet


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Their not POS lv transfgormers, one is a stainless steel 500 watt fused and the other a 500 watt fused. they don't trip the gfi, the pc boards in the gfi's, both outlet and breaker smoke.


Guess I should read the thread before stuffing my foot in my mouth.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Guess I should read the thread before stuffing my foot in my mouth.


Yeah, get with the program bob. :jester:


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I replaced the new CH BR gfi w/ an old murray gfi, now lets see if old technology superseeds new, if it last over 60 days I'll start feeling better.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I replaced the new CH BR gfi w/ an old murray gfi, now lets see if old technology superseeds new, if it last over 60 days I'll start feeling better.



I've never had any issues out of CH gfi breakers. I did have a batch of cooper gfi's I used on a house go bad. That was a few years ago. We do a lot of low voltage landscape lighting. Can't say I have had any gfi issues with the systems we have installed.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I've never had any issues out of CH gfi breakers. I did have a batch of cooper gfi's I used on a house go bad. That was a few years ago. We do a lot of low voltage landscape lighting. Can't say I have had any gfi issues with the systems we have installed.


I used to like and use cooper gfi's exclusively but I too recieved a bad batch this spring. Having the breaker melt down on me while two others remained unaffected just seemed quit unusual. Can it just be that I got stuck with two crap gfi's , don't know yet for sure. Just want to make sure history does'nt repeat itself on the next installation. I wouldn't mind a callback if it's my error, going back for paid for material that fails , now that's miserable.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I used to like and use cooper gfi's exclusively but I too recieved a bad batch this spring. Having the breaker melt down on me while two others remained unaffected just seemed quit unusual. Can it just be that I got stuck with two crap gfi's , don't know yet for sure. Just want to make sure history does'nt repeat itself on the next installation. I wouldn't mind a callback if it's my error, going back for paid for material that fails , now that's miserable.



The ones I had fail were both outside in in use covers. Both fried to a crisp. Both were brown. Not that that matters.:no: That was 3 or 4 years ago. My main supply house carrys cooper so I buy them. If I have any issues again I will switch. We install CH on almost every job. I use a lot of the BR gfi breakers and have had no issues ever out of them. Not to say you didn't have a crap one. IDK.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

ShockDoc.,

I don't know but if possiblty if the GFCI was toasted due some type of power surge and I know one GFCI recpectale { Cooper } don't like transfomer load I do not know why but it may have do something with power surge or resontic { simaiur to harmomic } 

Noramlly I used P&S or Hubbel GFCI receptale they will hold up pretty well with the LV luminaires.

Did you talk to the supplier where you brought the GFCI from ? somecase they may replace it without a question { that IMO check it out } due it was pretty new device.

Merci.
Marc


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> I don't know but if possiblty if the GFCI was toasted due some type of power surge and I know one GFCI recpectale { Cooper } don't like transfomer load I do not know why but it may have do something with power surge or resontic { simaiur to harmomic }


That's what I'm thinking, that's why I recommended checking the inrush. (Actually ShockDoc min/max it on shut off too.) The fact the load is so close to the GFCI's probably isn't helping too, if there was more wire the impedance would help reduce the effect.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> That's what I'm thinking, that's why I recommended checking the inrush. (Actually ShockDoc min/max it on shut off too.) The fact the load is so close to the GFCI's probably isn't helping too, if there was more wire the impedance would help reduce the effect.


 
Yeah however Shockdoc did mention BBQ'ed breaker so I think something more than that.

There one item I wish I can add in here but I know it may not meet the NEC code for sure is choke reactor or choke coil to limit the inrush current which I have done twice in France to slove the BBQ'ed breaker with 12 volt landscaping luminaires { there were pretty big one btw }

Merci.
Marc


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> Yeah however Shockdoc did mention BBQ'ed breaker so I think something more than that.
> 
> There one item I wish I can add in here but I know it may not meet the NEC code for sure is choke reactor or choke coil to limit the inrush current which I have done twice in France to slove the BBQ'ed breaker with 12 volt landscaping luminaires { there were pretty big one btw }
> 
> ...


Yeah but only about 10 feet between the load and breaker. In my experience that really doesn't seem to do much. I hard wire xformers like that when ever possible to avoid the GFCI problem. I would change to 20 amp GFCIs and I would be tempted to make a nice long coil of wire inside the panel either.


----------

