# Before and after pics



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Where did you get the Siemen panel..? Did you ever find out why Monarch stop stocking them..? Oh and what did they switch to.? I had a falling out with them and havent been back personally in months.... Nice panel..I dont think your thinking to much. I used to router pool panel boards.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

You guys in Jersey have it so easy with those basement panel changes...I have to change a panel in brick with the riser going through the roof...THose can be a pain...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Siemens panel is from Warshauer. 

Nola, do you mean the panels are recessed into the brick?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> You guys in Jersey have it so easy with those basement panel changes...I have to change a panel in brick with the riser going through the roof...THose can be a pain...


True, but time is money.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I see 220/221's panel changes are always on block and pipes and stuff going in at all sides. Alot different than a garage service meter/panel back to back we get around here. Basically 12 feet to service head down to meter pan with panel on the other side of the wall. I can basically do them myself in a long day. With two guys 4-6 hours. Thats a money maker.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> I see 220/221's panel changes are always on block and pipes and stuff going in at all sides. Alot different than a garage service meter/panel back to back we get around here. Basically 12 feet to service head down to meter pan with panel on the other side of the wall. I can basically do them myself in a long day. With two guys 4-6 hours. Thats a money maker.


Those are the best ones! No back and forth to the basement. Sometimes the branch circuits can be pain in the balls.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

It looks good with the routed edge.. a little darker gray than the panel would look the best. 

Nice job of centering the panel on the wood :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> It looks good with the routed edge.. a little darker gray than the panel would look the best.
> 
> Nice job of centering the panel on the wood :thumbsup:


It's off by 1/2" to the right you can't tell?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> It's off by 1/2" to the right you can't tell?


 
I can, but I was being kind and not splitting hairs


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Show more detail so we can pick it apart :thumbup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The QO panel I had there was soaking wet. I literally could dry my hands off after taking out a few breakers. Service was SE (surprise, surprise), and water leaking from the service head through the meter and down to the panel in basement. It got a clean bill of health from the township in 2003.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


> Show more detail so we can pick it apart :thumbup:


LOL

Here's a shot from a few feet away. That's spray foam insulation around where the conduit comes through the rim joist. I also applied it inside the LB to prevent any future moisture build up in the panel.


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## AWKrueger (Aug 4, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> LOL
> 
> Here's a shot from a few feet away. That's spray foam insulation around where the conduit comes through the rim joist. I also applied it inside the LB to prevent any future moisture build up in the panel.


 
Total hack!! It's not even level!! :laughing: 

Just kidding.... Looks very nice. Take some pics with that cover off. As an apprentice I need to take notes.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

It looks a tad crooked, or is it the angle ?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> It looks a tad crooked, or is it the angle ?


Must be the angle unless my level is broke.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I cannot tell which is the before and which is the after?


















<JK> Looks good.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I cannot tell which is the before and which is the after?


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

Not knocking anything....... but we would have to protect the wires above the panel. Either in conduits or build a chase and cover with drywall or plywood. Also our plywood on the block wall has to be PT or marine grade and painted with a fireproofing coating.
Another PITA... we have to supply load calcs on the house when any load is added to the electrical system and load calcs for a service or panel change out.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Innovative said:


> Not knocking anything....... but we would have to protect the wires above the panel. Either in conduits or build a chase and cover with drywall or plywood.


That is a typical New England New Jersey panel install, no protection required for the NMs at the top of the panel. The NEC does not require it.

Of course they are supposed to be secured within 12" of the enclosure and that is rarely done, I do not.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Siemens panel is from Warshauer.
> 
> Nola, do you mean the panels are recessed into the brick?


No, I just mean surface mounted outside on brick or weatherboard. The new panel are twice the size of the old ones and you really have to make it work...by busting out bricks and moving the wires....


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> That is a typical New England New Jersey panel install, no protection required for the NMs at the top of the panel. The NEC does not require it.


Add Long Island to that list.. there are almost (2) million homes here and never had a case of exposed NM attacking a home owner


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

lol b4t

The 3/4 plywood is mounted to (2) 2x4 PT studs. Lags and shields attach to wood to cinder blocks.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Are you not allowed to mount the panel to the block for some reason?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Are you not allowed to mount the panel to the block for some reason?


We have always mounted plywood to the concrete because of dampness that rusts out the panel


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I wouldn't waste time painting the plywood. I wouldn't even consider wasting even more time routing the edge. I would have used that time to find my level. 

The real question is why no pics with the panel cover off? :laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Innovative said:


> Not knocking anything....... but we would have to protect the wires above the panel. Either in conduits or build a chase and cover with drywall or plywood. Also our plywood on the block wall has to be PT or marine grade and painted with a fireproofing coating.
> Another PITA... we have to supply load calcs on the house when any load is added to the electrical system and load calcs for a service or panel change out.


Is it the heat or the humidity in Florida that makes everybody crazy?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I wouldn't waste time painting the plywood. I wouldn't even consider wasting even more time routing the edge. I would have used that time to find my level.
> 
> The real question is why no pics with the panel cover off? :laughing:


I paint my plywood also and don't consider it a waste of time.

For $2,00.00+ you get the best job possible, it all adds up to a successful business practice. 

The service panel will be there most likely for the next (30) years and will always look like the installer takes pride in his work. :thumbsup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I wouldn't waste time painting the plywood. I wouldn't even consider wasting even more time routing the edge. I would have used that time to find my level.


I can take a couple hours on Saturday and get a heck of a lot of backboards made and painted. I just get them to saw the sheets at Lowe's when I pick them up, according to my cut plan. Takes 5-10 minutes to router a whole pile of them. I buy cheap exterior paint at the discount stores, in whatever color they happen to have at the time that makes sense for a backboard, for 8 - 10 bucks a gallon. A gallon does a lots and lots of backboards.

On tip, though, is that you have to paint both sides, or the plywood will warp.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> I paint my plywood also and don't consider it a waste of time.
> 
> For $2,00.00+ you get the best job possible, it all adds up to a successful business practice.
> 
> The service panel will be there most likely for the next (30) years and will always look like the installer takes pride in his work. :thumbsup:


My bad. Paint DOES make the job better, what the hell was I thinking. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> My bad. Paint DOES make the job better, what the hell was I thinking. :no:


It is called creative thinking.. how can I make my job look better than the EC's job down the street.

Only thing after paint and routed edges is molding, but _*that*_ is excessive_ :thumbsup:_


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> It is called creative thinking.. how can I make my job look better than the EC's job down the street.
> 
> Only thing after paint and routed edges is molding, but _*that*_ is excessive_ :thumbsup:_


Believe me I get it but I bet the only person that will notice other than you is the EC down the street.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I buy some of that old growth lumber from the swamp loggers, I mill it and assembly it into panels, some molding, I hand engrave the Klein symbol into the wood then no less than 17 coats of hand mixed natural varnish.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I am proud when I use a level.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I buy some of that old growth lumber from the swamp loggers, I mill it and assembly it into panels, some molding, I hand engrave the Klein symbol into the wood then no less than 17 coats of hand mixed natural varnish.


Any tips on making those mortise and tendon joints to join the boards together


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Believe me I get it but I bet the only person that will notice other than you is the EC down the street.


That might be true or it could be a family member or friend who is in construction or is mechanically inclined and appreciated the new "look"

Nothing ventured.. nothing gained.. I would rather try and snag another job from the one I just completed.

If nothing else, the electrical inspector will notice and _that _is always a good thing.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I would have laminated the ply with Mahogany and picture framed it with crown moulding. If I had time, I'd add some gold leaf to the panel cover.


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## Buddha In Babylon (Mar 23, 2009)

I honestly know a guy who has a sub panel in his studio/garage that is recessed into the wall with panelling on the walls, and a nice stained picture frame type configuration of molding around a stained door (around 12x12) with brass hardware that opens up to expose the subpanel. The guys brother, whom is an excellent carpenter, kinda went to town on the studio for his little bro. I thought it was a really nice touch.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


> I would have laminated the ply with Mahogany and picture framed it with crown moulding. If I had time, I'd add some gold leaf to the panel cover.


A gold leaf? :laughing:


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## nick.pei (Jun 15, 2009)

I'm only new, but I thought you were not allowed to bring the wires in through the top with the main lines coming in??


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

nick.pei said:


> I'm only new, but I thought you were not allowed to bring the wires in through the top with the main lines coming in??


 
I never heard of that rule here in the states :blink:

Where did you see or hear this in Canada?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Somebody is pulling your leg....or maybe they are just full of sh!t.:laughing:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Canada actually has that rule. Their main breaker section is actually a separate compartment inside the panel. No branch circuits permitted in there. That's why the Canadian panel pictures you see all have the circuits coming in the sides of the box.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Yeah and they hang their panels sideways. ???


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Krazy Kanucks :jester:


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

cover off w/ outside meter & riser pics please. So far so good. I like Siemens panels.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Anyone notice there is no pics with the cover off?:whistling2: Ill assume the inside looks as good as the outside does. Good job!:thumbsup:


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> We have always mounted plywood to the concrete because of dampness that rusts out the panel


 Is there a code reference for that?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

sparks134 said:


> Is there a code reference for that?


No.. just a thing that has always been done.. like putting receptacles with ground facing down :jester:


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

gotcha! so an inspector cant nail you for that, sweet!


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Canada actually has that rule. Their main breaker section is actually a separate compartment inside the panel. No branch circuits permitted in there. That's why the Canadian panel pictures you see all have the circuits coming in the sides of the box.


Right....unless its being fed from below as most stuff around here is now days.

I've got a panel lying around somewhere, I'll post a pic once I find it.



nick.pei said:


> I'm only new, but I thought you were not allowed to bring the wires in through the top with the main lines coming in??


If you don't know our rules very well yet, this place is going to confuse the hell out of you. While the vast majority of our rules are pretty close, there are a lot of differences between Canada and the US that will trip you up if you don't know where the differences are.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

From a whole house rewire I'm doing. 1st day.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

You need to flip that panel!...Is that a Bulldog pushmatic?


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> LOL
> 
> Here's a shot from a few feet away. That's spray foam insulation around where the conduit comes through the rim joist. I also applied it inside the LB to prevent any future moisture build up in the panel.


 
Looks good! But spray foam IN the LB? hmmmmm I dunno!


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## nick.pei (Jun 15, 2009)

I second the flipping part.



NolaTigaBait said:


> You need to flip that panel!...Is that a Bulldog pushmatic?


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

nick.pei said:


> I second the flipping part.


Just caught that! Thought that was an ML panel till i saw the main breaker. Is that allowed where you are?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

cdnelectrician said:


> Just caught that! Thought that was an ML panel till i saw the main breaker. Is that allowed where you are?


Yeah, it's marked LINE either way and the Main throws left to right...


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Yeah, it's marked LINE either way and the Main throws left to right...


 
I see that now. Thanks:thumbsup:


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## nick.pei (Jun 15, 2009)

Yes, as far as I know. still learning though.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Flipping panels is hard to get used too.. just one of those things that die hard.

I understand why, but they always look upside down when you flip it


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Flip it? Never done that, to me that wouldn't be right.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

And all your grounds and neutrals would need to be super long unless u added another ground bar.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> And all your grounds and neutrals would need to be super long unless u added another ground bar.


Very good point :thumbsup:

I only use Murray panels and the neutral bar is about in the middle, BUT it still looks upside down when your done, if you flip it


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Yeah, I never have liked having the main at the bottom. It is not the common place for people to look for it, therefore it will look "upside down" even though most panels are not directional.

~Matt


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Someone wanted to see the riser/ meter set up and the inside of the panel so here you go. I thought I seriously f'd up with the clearance from the window (230.9), but the inspector did not say anything. If the intent of the code is to allow firemen access to the window, I believe, and so did the inspector, that the intent was met. The utility drop is a midspan connection that comes over the roof as you can see. 




























Passed the inspection this morning.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Someone wanted to see the riser/ meter set up and the inside of the panel so here you go. I thought I seriously f'd up with the clearance from the window (230.9), but the inspector did not say anything. If the intent of the code is to allow firemen access to the window, I believe, and so did the inspector, that the intent was met. The utility drop is a midspan connection that comes over the roof as you can see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really nice job. :thumbsup:


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Someone wanted to see the riser/ meter set up and the inside of the panel so here you go. I thought I seriously f'd up with the clearance from the window (230.9), but the inspector did not say anything. If the intent of the code is to allow firemen access to the window, I believe, and so did the inspector, that the intent was met. The utility drop is a midspan connection that comes over the roof as you can see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pardon my ignorance but did you drive ground rods? I am used to seeing a 1/2" pvc coming out of the meter can


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> Pardon my ignorance but did you drive ground rods? I am used to seeing a 1/2" pvc coming out of the meter can


That's a good question.

Yes, two ground rods were driven, but around here our power company (PSEG) wants us to do the bonding of the grounded conductor at the main breaker. So the grounding electrode conductor goes from the ground rod to the main panel on the inside.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Really nice job. :thumbsup:


No Scotchkote! :notworthy:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> No Scotchkote! :notworthy:


Ahhh.. you forgot to do the ground clamp.. it will never rust or corrode


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

Is it code? Do you have to use a bushing (plastic) on your incoming conduit? :blink: Just curious!


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Electric Al said:


> Is it code? Do you have to use a bushing (plastic) on your incoming conduit? :blink: Just curious!


Yeah, for #4 and larger wires.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

nice job Ron. Thank god your not a curlly cue guy. I hate it when guys do the little curl on conductors. Or the down and up before they land it on the breaker....


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> nice job Ron. Thank god your not a curlly cue guy. I hate it when guys do the little curl on conductors. Or the down and up before they land it on the breaker....


That's the most ridiculous thing. There's no point to it. 

Hey Tone... I'm still working on that lunch truck. 

Next time we talk I'll tell you all about it (it's all good).


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> That's the most ridiculous thing. There's no point to it.
> 
> Hey Tone... I'm still working on that lunch truck.
> 
> Next time we talk I'll tell you all about it (it's all good).


 Cool, I thought you didnt want to do it. I'm dieing to hear what you did. I would have love to have done it, it seemed like a cool challenge.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Cool, I thought you didnt want to do it. I'm dieing to hear what you did. I would have love to have done it, it seemed like a cool challenge.


That's what it was; a challenge. Seems like I've had a few of those jobs lately. :laughing:

The nice thing about jobs like that is that it makes some of the other jobs seem easy. I used to hate it when the boss would send me to challenge-type jobs because I was able to handle myself, but now I seem to relish these jobs. Probably because the pays much better. arty::yes:


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## Lyndon (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh god what is this all confusion I think this will be so complicated why don't you contact a electrician for clearing it....


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