# Quality workmanship



## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)




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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The top image looks to be a ground rod.

The bottom one looks like the corner next to a free-standing tub.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

clever


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Cable on that ground rod is too large.
And get a silver spray bomb for the outlet box.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

nevermind the fact that the ground rod is 1.5 feet above earth or the metal box is rotted from the moisture placing it within 1 ft of a bathtub


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> nevermind the fact that the ground rod is 1.5 feet above earth


Maybe it's a 10 foot ground rod.:whistling2:

Chris


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

raider1 said:


> Maybe it's a 10 foot ground rod.:whistling2:
> 
> Chris



Maybe its to double for a game of horseshoes


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> Maybe its to double for a game of horseshoes


 :thumbup::thumbsup:

Chris


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Normally when the rod hits a rock or the foundation the guy cuts it off..
Sure there are thousands of cut off rods. 
Even heard of a guy that poured salt water on it so it would test OK. 
If they catch someone cutting a rod they should pull their license.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

BTW That wall with the box? 
That must be made of just panel board.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

The height of the ground rod is fine; the diameter of earth is too small.:jester:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Don't ever get old.









My eyes can't make anything out other than the ground rod and the bathtub.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Toronto Sparky said:


> Normally when the rod hits a rock or the foundation the guy cuts it off..
> Sure there are thousands of cut off rods.
> Even heard of a guy that poured salt water on it so it would test OK.
> If they catch someone cutting a rod they should pull their license.


Dig a small ditch and bend it over.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

As soon as someone tells me what purpose a ground rod actually serves other than lightning protection and incidental contact, then I'll believe that cutting a ground rod is going to cause some kind of hazard.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> As soon as someone tells me what purpose a ground rod actually serves other than lightning protection and incidental contact, then I'll believe that cutting a ground rod is going to cause some kind of hazard.


 
It certainly is a hazard. I tried it once, and pert near sheared off 3 of my digits.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Peter D said:


> As soon as someone tells me what purpose a ground rod actually serves other than lightning protection and incidental contact, then I'll believe that cutting a ground rod is going to cause some kind of hazard.


I agree that cutting a couple of inches off is no big deal, but I've seen guys cut them in half, or even 2' sections.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> I agree that cutting a couple of inches off is no big deal, but I've seen guys cut them in half, or even 2' sections.


I've cut a ground rod off only once, when I realized there was a terra cotta sewer line somewhere in the vicinity of where I was driving the ground rod. I cut off three feet or so.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Freakin' Hack.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Dig a small ditch and bend it over.


 
:thumbup:


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I've cut a ground rod off only once, when I realized there was a terra cotta sewer line somewhere in the vicinity of where I was driving the ground rod. I cut off three feet or so.


Sewage makes a great ground. Don't it?


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

I don't see any pictures. 

Sounds like a good one too


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

goose134 said:


> I don't see any pictures.
> 
> Sounds like a good one too


 
When it was there, I could see there was a picture.

Now it's pissadeared.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

I see dead people.. Opps that's the mirror.. Must be bed time..


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

someone edited my post? I re-hosted them and made them larger.


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## vinster888 (May 3, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Dig a small ditch and bend it over.


a 30" deep small ditch? lol

cut it off and hammer the head so it looks like you beat all 8' of it into a rock


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Peter D said:


> As soon as someone tells me what purpose a ground rod actually serves other than lightning protection and incidental contact, then I'll believe that cutting a ground rod is going to cause some kind of hazard.


I agree with you.
.
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.
.
.
.
.
.
I hate that. :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I_get_shocked said:


> someone edited my post?


Yes. You it seems.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> ......I hate that. :whistling2:


What? The purpose of ground rods, or that you agree with Peter?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> If they catch someone cutting a rod they should pull their license.


 

That's a little extreme...dontcha think? I was going to post a pic but got skeered.:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> I hate that. :whistling2:


Oh well...you'll get over it. :thumbsup:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

vinster888 said:


> a 30" deep small ditch? lol
> 
> cut it off and hammer the head so it looks like you beat all 8' of it into a rock


Who said anything about digging a 30" hole? If you are willing to violate the code by cutting it off, why would you not be willing to violate it by having the hole too shallow?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

I believe the code says you can drive a rod up to a 45 degree angle.... I have never had the need to cut a rod.

If its worth doing, its worth doing right.

~Matt


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## Safety-Guy (Jan 22, 2007)

250.54
(G) Rod and Pipe Electrodes. The electrode shall be installed
such that at least 2.44 m (8 ft) of length is in contact
with the soil. It shall be driven to a depth of not less than
2.44 m (8 ft) except that, where rock bottom is encountered,
the electrode shall be driven at an oblique angle not
to exceed 45 degrees from the vertical or, where rock bottom
is encountered at an angle up to 45 degrees, the electrode
shall be permitted to be buried in a trench that is at
least 750 mm (30 in.) deep. The upper end of the electrode
shall be flush with or below ground level unless the aboveground
end and the grounding electrode conductor attachment
are protected against physical damage as specified in
250.10.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Safety-Guy said:


> 250.54
> (G) Rod and Pipe Electrodes. The electrode shall be installed...


It seems that almost everyone here pretty much knows the code on the topic. The subject was basically that they didn't CARE...


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> What? ...........that you agree with Peter?


:thumbsup:






Peter D said:


> Oh well...you'll get over it. :thumbsup:


Oh, I'm sure I will. :laughing:


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

so if i get caught cutting off my ground rod i should answer,," because i wanted to install 2 ground rods but i dont have another one handy"


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

zen said:


> so if i get caught cutting off my ground rod i should answer,," because i wanted to install 2 ground rods but i dont have another one handy"


No. If someone catches you cutting a ground rod, you are to beat them to death with the piece you just cut off and dispose of the body. Don't they teach you guys in Texas anything?


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

i was thinkin the same thing ,but its been a while since i did a" you cought me so i bashed you with the evedince and disposed of your body service" i thought the code said 6ft min. direct body durial unless incased in concrete,, if thats the case i might have to do some cuttin


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

gentlemen,

the leftover piece should only be used to kill them if you don't have what it takes to kill them with your bare hands, then you should beat them with the leftover piece after the fact to confuse the police. at this point, the body may be disposed.

if you have any other questions, please consult the manual.


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## gardiner (Sep 25, 2007)

Gentlemen the ground rod in the picture was set into the right height. Its just that was a while ago and erosion has taken place. :whistling2:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

It could have been a 10' rod.

~Matt


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## jsb (Apr 5, 2009)

i have been doing this a while and i think i have driven about 10 ground rods. how come everyone acts like they drive them everyday? where do people drive them all the time?

temp services need them
resi should have footer ground and water for ground, right? no need for a ground rod? i guess maybe before footer ground was required you drove one @ all houses??

i do mainly commercial and dont think i have ever needed a ground rod in a commercial building


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

jsb said:


> i have been doing this a while and i think i have driven about 10 ground rods. how come everyone acts like they drive them everyday? where do people drive them all the time?
> 
> temp services need them
> resi should have footer ground and water for ground, right? no need for a ground rod? i guess maybe before footer ground was required you drove one @ all houses??
> ...



Used to drive two rods every house, water pipe is plastic, and just recently started using Ufer and one rod. I don't drive them everyday, but have driven enough to reach China by now.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Last job we probably put in 100 10' X 3/4 rods, made 500 exothermic welds and 1000s of feet of 4/0 bare copper.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Last job we probably put in 100 10' X 3/4 rods, made 500 exothermic welds and 1000s of feet of 4/0 bare copper.


That must have been some seriously poor soil, or the engineer was plain guessing. 

I have to wonder how many grounding system designs actually started with a soils resistivity test like you're supposed to, or if the engineer just threw the customer's checkbook at the matter.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Rod every 50' for ground grid encircle buildings. All even numbered columns had ground 4/0 welded to grid. Each odd numbered column had 4/0 welded to rebar in foundation. All medium voltage duct banks had 4/0 in rebar grid. All Ballards, transformers, switchgear, baghouses, machinery, and motors grounded to grid. Cable trays 3/0 run complete length. Project total; two years $147,000,000.:thumbsup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Rod every 50' for ground grid encircle buildings. All even numbered columns had ground 4/0 welded to grid. Each odd numbered column had 4/0 welded to rebar in foundation. All medium voltage duct banks had 4/0 in rebar grid. All Ballards, transformers, switchgear, baghouses, machinery, and motors grounded to grid. Cable trays 3/0 run complete length. Project total; two years $147,000,000.:thumbsup:


Oh, I see. Much of what you describe is more like bonding.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Oh, I see. Much of what you describe is more like bonding.


The cable tray is definitely bonding. The rest was underground with bare conductors, the outer grid was 10’ out from the edge of foundation to keep it from drying out. I guess it was serving as both.


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## prldrp1 (Jun 1, 2009)

some inspectors around here want the top of the rod and the connection exposed....others want it buried, so I always have the sledge ready at inspection


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## prldrp1 (Jun 1, 2009)

jsb said:


> i have been doing this a while and i think i have driven about 10 ground rods. how come everyone acts like they drive them everyday? where do people drive them all the time?
> 
> temp services need them
> resi should have footer ground and water for ground, right? no need for a ground rod? i guess maybe before footer ground was required you drove one @ all houses??
> ...


 
ALL residential in Chicago require steel (copper)water pipe AND a grn rod. most commercial work require a grn rod in the bottom of the gear....a structural steel grn and a rebar ground....all at the main gear....some office jobs also call for a triangular grid out past the foundation for dedicated circuits


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

prldrp1 said:


> some office jobs also call for a triangular grid out past the foundation for dedicated circuits


A dedicated grounding grid? Is it isolated from the building GE system? If so, that is an NEC violation.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> As soon as someone tells me what purpose a ground rod actually serves other than lightning protection and incidental contact, then I'll believe that cutting a ground rod is going to cause some kind of hazard.


Don't they also serve as an alternate path for the neutral current if the POCO neutral somehow becomes null and void? I know it would be a very high resistance path using the house ground rod -> earth->POCO ground rod->transformer, but nonetheless I thought it also served this purpose.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> Don't they also serve as an alternate path for the neutral current if the POCO neutral somehow becomes null and void? I know it would be a very high resistance path using the house ground rod -> earth->POCO ground rod->transformer, but nonetheless I thought it also served this purpose.


 if that was the case then why does the NEC allow us to run a #6 to a rod on any size service. 1200 amp service will only require a #6


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Good point


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

great pics!


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## Lhaimbhee (May 28, 2009)

newb question....... Why would you even feel the need to cut the grounding rod? I seriously dont know and wonder why people would do it.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

sometimes the ground is so stinking hard, or you are on bedrock and there is no where for the rod to go......

Not often, but on occasion.


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## thekoolcody (Aug 30, 2008)

I_get_shocked said:


> clever


Agree


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## Lhaimbhee (May 28, 2009)

Lighting Retro said:


> sometimes the ground is so stinking hard, or you are on bedrock and there is no where for the rod to go......
> 
> Not often, but on occasion.


if the rod is shorter will it become a problem, if so what?


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