# Can Mere Mortals Buy HDPE Conduit?



## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

Jerome208 said:


> We have jobs that require snaking around all kinds of minor obstacles in the ground. Requiring lots of heating or gluing in bends on PVC. Usually 1.25" to 2" size conduit.
> 
> 
> Been looking around for some time now for a source that would sell HDPE conduit of these sizes in lengths less than a thousand feet or whatever.
> ...


When we've needed bits of it we buy it from the local directional drillers.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

You can buy the stuff easy enough but it's expensive if you don't buy big reels. 

Buy handholes too, the bends count even if they are gentle or are just the memory of the HDPE.


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## Jerome208 (May 10, 2013)

If you can buy partial lengths of it, I have not found it. 



Any pointers to an outlet of the material?


We don't have a lot of HDD guys near here, town is too small.



It is more about the potential labor savings. Cost of the material is probably not real important in the grand scheme.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Try 

https://www.innderduct.com


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

We use a fair amount of HDPE. We also have some leftover reels of sch.40 UL 1.25, 2, and 3" HDPE sitting at our shop right now.

That said, if I knew I was going to running around a bunch of minor obstacles in the ground, I would not be bringing the HDPE with me.

I would be using pvc.

Couple that with our (2) propane torches(hotbend) or our 7500w Honda generator and Greenlee 6" hotbox and underground goes quick, obstacles or not.

I only drag the HDPE reels out when I know I've got a fairly straight run of 1000'+. Shorter than that or larger than 3", I just buy 20' sticks of pvc and get to it.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Our directional bore contractor left us some curved up out of the ground.
We couldn't do anything at all with it and had to cut it off and switch to sch.40,
With the set of 350s in it. :sad:


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## Jerome208 (May 10, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> Our directional bore contractor left us some curved up out of the ground.
> We couldn't do anything at all with it and had to cut it off and switch to sch.40,
> With the set of 350s in it. :sad:



I imagine that was a fair bit larger than 1.25", but what was the boring contractor supposed to have done with it instead?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

OP: Sealtite.

Immense labor savings.

I just only use it for trick situations.

For some reason it never enters anyone's head that it's listed for underground usage.

But it says that right on its side!


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## Jerome208 (May 10, 2013)

I have no problem with Sealtite in this application but how do you make the transition to the rigid PVC risers? Can the mechanical fittings be used underground with female TAs or what?


And what is wrong with the manufacturers not making the stuff listed to be glued like other PVC? One of my pet peeves.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Jerome208 said:


> I have no problem with Sealtite in this application but how do you make the transition to the rigid PVC risers? Can the mechanical fittings be used underground with female TAs or what?


I don't think there's any listing issue with a male adapter on the LFNC and a female adapter on the RNC. You might get a headache using a RMC coupling between two male LFNC / RNC fittings, not that I'd lose sleep over it. 

If you wanted to come up in metallic conduit, again you may have a problem using a rigid coupling, but there are listed transition fittings to go between the metallic conduit and sealtight.


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## Jerome208 (May 10, 2013)

Carflex is what is available in our area and not direct bury above 1" trade size. We usually need 1.25 minimum.


It looks like other brands may be direct bury in the larger sizes, but so far I have not figured where to buy them.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Mucking around trying to find unobtainum is a total waste of your time.

Sealtite is available at every supply house. You're only going to need this stuff rarely -- and but short lengths, anyway.

So it's specific cost per foot is NOT what you should be concerned with. Focus on your total cost of acquisition. Get it?

Put an F/A on the PVC. Put a STRAIGHT male fitting on the Sealtite. DONE. 

I've used Sealtite over and over. My labor savings are astounding. I can knock an HOUR off each time I use Sealtite. Do the math.

Forget about Sealtite's cost per foot. In the larger sizes your SH should sell you custom cuts, too. If not, (tragic) buy their shortest roll... and buck up.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

telsa said:


> Mucking around trying to find unobtainum is a total waste of your time.
> 
> Sealtite is available at every supply house. You're only going to need this stuff rarely -- and but short lengths, anyway.
> 
> ...


I can't tell if you're talking about nonmetallic or metallic flexible conduit?

Are all your components DB rated?

I can understand flex being easier in some places. But I still can't see the cost advantages when a person has the right equipment and the proper planning to get around obstructions though. 

We do 1000's of feet of underground in all sizes in a given year. 

We have not once felt the need to resort to flex to "save one hour" since in the time it takes you to buy and bring the parts to the site, we could already have the pvc heated with the torch and done, not even considering the material costs for flex, connectors, fa's and assembly time for all the components. 

Furthermore, we don't even use couplings underground except at stubups when necessary. Introducing fa's and flex connectors midrun especially at an obstruction is just one more place for the conduit to potentially pull apart.

I want the joints to be bell ends, not fa's or couplings which pull out far easier.

Different strokes and all....


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## Jerome208 (May 10, 2013)

Are you using Sealtite as a genericised trademark or do you get Sealtite brand in Sacramento?


Here everybody sells Carflex and it is not DB above 1" so 1.25" is out. Maybe other brands allow it but have not found anything but Carflex in our usual SHs. I will explore this further.


I agree this is to save on labor. I don't care about cost per foot either.


But I am trying to stay within listing.







telsa said:


> Mucking around trying to find unobtainum is a total waste of your time.
> 
> Sealtite is available at every supply house. You're only going to need this stuff rarely -- and but short lengths, anyway.
> 
> ...


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

If you are really hung up on innerduct, we get less than full rolls from our local telcom. They would even let us take the big roll and cut off what is needed and return the rest. Remember that stuff is like a big coil spring trying to unroll as soon as you cut the tie rope that is holding it all together. it is nearly impossible to lay in a trench and hold it down flat until you backfill. It is meant to be plowed or pulled in. Paige Electric out of Nebraska has listed transition fittings to transition to pvc at the ends.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Sealtite works for me because I'm using 1" or 3/4" trade sizes.

If things get large, my trenches get large, too. Then it's PVC 40 or DB120.

Those virtually always run conventionally.

My big stuff is not permitted to be field bent. ( I'm talking Poco rules and Poco inspected runs. Yes they really stick their noses in, mandrel the pipes, too. )


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

telsa said:


> Sealtite works for me because I'm using 1" or 3/4" trade sizes.



A hotbend torch and BBQ propane tank is around $950.


We can heat and bend smaller sizes like you mentioned in a minute.


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## Jerome208 (May 10, 2013)

The job is done. We used Electri-flex. Inspectors did not look twice.


We would not have been able to do field bends or even glue in pre-made bends easily because it was a narrow trench among landscaping with bores under sidewalks, around trees, etc.


I was not able to be there but the guys who actually pulled in the wire said it was miserable because the inside of the LFNC is so "sticky". They used plenty of lube of course, they are not novices, but had to resort to straightening it out, pulling and then pushing one end back into place.


Any words of wisdom for using this stuff with a full 360° of bends if we can't resort to this trick? Is there a better brand of lube?


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Yes, I have the answer
Next time listen to Cow, not Telsa:wink:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't get it, if I'm working with a tight trench I just heat, cut, glue, whatever I gotta do and shove the pipe in the trench.


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## WPNortheast (Jun 4, 2017)

I was not able to be there but the guys who actually pulled in the wire said it was miserable because the inside of the LFNC is so "sticky". They used plenty of lube of course, they are not novices, but had to resort to straightening it out, pulling and then pushing one end back into place.

Any words of wisdom for using this stuff with a full 360° of bends if we can't resort to this trick? Is there a better brand of lube

Been there, now I always use silicone spray. I like Permatex in the blue can.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

WPNortheast said:


> > I was not able to be there but the guys who actually pulled in the wire said it was miserable because the inside of the LFNC is so "sticky". ... Is there a better brand of lube?
> 
> 
> Been there, now I always use silicone spray. I like Permatex in the blue can.


I have used silicone spray in a pinch, I hesitate a little because it's not made for the purpose. I found a product from American Polywater that works well and is kosher: 



> Polywater® + Silicone™ Types NN and NB are a family of high-performance, specification-grade, cable pulling lubricants that demonstrate superior performance in two areas: Friction reduction on HDPE (polyethylene conduits) and PVC materials. These lubricants provide continuous lubrication when pulling through water and are suitable for all types of cable pulling.


If you ever noticed silicone products are hard to clean off your clothes or hands, the same thing makes them stay with the cable. 

Sometimes it's worth pushing a lube-soaked rag on the end of your fish tape, as long as you make sure it doesn't fall off in there :thumbsup:


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