# One circut per pipe



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Sounds like a great place for hospital grade MC!


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

erics37 said:


> Sounds like a great place for hospital grade MC!


No mc allowed accept for fixture whips

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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Why is it a waste if you're being paid to do it?


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

And just how many 1/2" EMT's will go back to the panel ?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

:lol: I want to meet the genius who came up with that spec: All the work of a conduit installation but none of the advantages. 

-John


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Why is it a waste if you're being paid to do it?


Its wasteful for the hospital to pay for all that extra pipe and fittings

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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

noarcflash said:


> And just how many 1/2" EMT's will go back to the panel ?


Don't have a count but over 25

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## iAmCam (Dec 3, 2007)

What if a piece of equipment requires 240v power? Gonna have to have each hot in its own pipe? Then where's the neutral go?


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

And it's not one circuit per room there is at least 2 in every room and those same 2 will feed some other rooms

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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Big John said:


> :lol: I want to meet the genius who came up with that spec: All the work of a conduit installation but none of the advantages.
> 
> -John


That is really funny.:laughing:


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

iAmCam said:


> What if a piece of equipment requires 240v power? Gonna have to have each hot in its own pipe? Then where's the neutral go?


Well it would be A 240v circuit so it still falls under the 1 circuit rule

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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

JmanAllen said:


> We are doing a job, small health clinic, in the spec it say all HRs to be in 1/2"pipe with only one circuit per pipe. I've never heard of a job speccing anything like this before it seems to me it creates a huge waste of material not to mention the mess of all those 1/2"pipes in the panel room
> 
> Anyone else run in to this
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


Yes but is just over kill.


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> Yes but is just over kill.


I know it's over kill but it's way over kill you could just spec all 3/4" conduits with no more the 3 circuits per conduit. That would leave room for future

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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

I want a picture of 25 EMT runs going into the panel, with no trough.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

JmanAllen said:


> I know it's over kill but it's way over kill you could just spec all 3/4" conduits with no more the 3 circuits per conduit. That would leave room for future
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


I agree it would make much more sense.


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

noarcflash said:


> I want a picture of 25 EMT runs going into the panel, with no trough.


I didn't say in to the panel I said in to the panel room We will set a gutter above it but it's still a small panel room

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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

iAmCam said:


> What if a piece of equipment requires 240v power? Gonna have to have each hot in its own pipe? Then where's the neutral go?



The spec is one HR per pipe, not one ungrounded per pipe.

My question would be, with the spec of 1/2", what about any load over 50 amps?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Somebody tell the EE that pasted the spec into the plans to put the crack pipe down and slowly walk away backwards...


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

If the spec is actually worded "one circuit" then it allows for MWBC's


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

JmanAllen said:


> Its wasteful for the hospital to pay for all that extra pipe and fittings


There is more waste than just the conduit and fittings, there is more wire, greater I²xR losses, VD, etc....


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Fibes said:


> If the spec is actually worded "one circuit" then it allows for MWBC's


Specs as silly as this normally include no shared neutrals


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Only electricians would complain about being paid to do more work.


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Specs as silly as this normally include no shared neutrals


 Yeah I know, that's the reason I made it a point to say if they actually said "one circuit"


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Only electricians would complain about being paid to do more work.


 That's not true, I've done a lot of different jobs and complained just as much doing those. :whistling2:

-John


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> The spec is one HR per pipe, not one ungrounded per pipe.
> 
> My question would be, with the spec of 1/2", what about any load over 50 amps?


It allows for the ones over 30amps to be in other sizes and specs what size they want used

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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Specs as silly as this normally include no shared neutrals


That's right

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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I know the new code on Mwbc created a lot of new pipe work. More pipe=more money. I like the guys who get mad, when the customer for whatever reason want's something different. They take it personnel, I'm like yahoo more money and pension hours.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> I know the new code on Mwbc created a lot of new pipe work. More pipe=more money. I like the guys who get mad, when the customer for whatever reason want's something different. They take it personnel, I'm like yahoo more money and pension hours.


How did the 'new MWBC rules' affect running pipe? :001_huh:


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

more neutrals, more current carrying conductors. Now more pipe runs.


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## joethemechanic (Sep 21, 2011)

480sparky said:


> How did the 'new MWBC rules' affect running pipe? :001_huh:


More wire, more I²R heating ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

joethemechanic said:


> More wire, more I²R heating ?


Where does this alleged heat come from?


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## JGarcia (Jul 9, 2011)

Hmmm....can we say, "R.F.I."? Best thing about specs, NO ONE READS THEM. LOL. Just kidding they are very importand and should be...no i'm still lol'ing. 

Really, that sounds rediculous. 1 ckt per 1/2" emt. And if you set a gutter wouldn't you still need 1 - 1/2" per ckt anyway? I would really like to see this spec and how it's worded. I have done operating rooms in hosptials where the patients actually have a band that connects to them and is plugged into a grounding system. With outside testing companies and crazy 62 volts to ground panels that didn't have any specs on how many ckts. you could have in a pipe. What makes a small clinic so special? I would argue with the GC and get the engineer to amend that before you spend a lot of money on something so stupid.

Just my thoughts.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

JmanAllen said:


> No mc allowed accept for fixture whips
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


If those fixtures are located in a patient care area then standard MC is not permitted and HCF AC cable or MCAP cable would be required.

Chris


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

raider1 said:


> If those fixtures are located in a patient care area then standard MC is not permitted and HCF AC cable or MCAP cable would be required.
> 
> Chris


 
I recall you posting this a couple of years ago.

I had to read that section a few times before it sunk in.:thumbsup:


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## JGarcia (Jul 9, 2011)

raider1 said:


> If those fixtures are located in a patient care area then standard MC is not permitted and HCF AC cable or MCAP cable would be required.
> 
> Chris


Yeah, that's what we are using at the hospital I'm working at. It's green with black, white, green, and a bare aluminum ground. Also has eac conductor individually wrapped in paper. It weighs twice as much as normal mc.


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

Big John said:


> That's not true, I've done a lot of different jobs and complained just as much doing those. :whistling2:
> 
> -John


Bwahahaha


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

It does seem wasteful. I did some work at a University lab that had no more than 4 hots in a pipe, minimum 3/4", horizontal runs in walls were limited to 30", and there had to be junction boxes in every room.


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Only electricians would complain about being paid to do more work.


I don't complain about the being paid more part, just the more work part.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

goose134 said:


> It does seem wasteful. I did some work at a University lab that had no more than 4 hots in a pipe, minimum 3/4", horizontal runs in walls were limited to 30", and there had to be junction boxes in every room.


That's not too bad as long as the ceilings are accessible.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MarkyMark said:


> I don't complain about the being paid more part, just the more work part.



As opposed to complaining about lack of paying work?


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

raider1 said:


> If those fixtures are located in a patient care area then standard MC is not permitted and HCF AC cable or MCAP cable would be required.
> 
> Chris


if the fixtures are above 7'?


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## Krummholz (Feb 9, 2011)

JmanAllen said:


> We are doing a job, small health clinic, in the spec it say all HRs to be in 1/2"pipe with only one circuit per pipe. I've never heard of a job speccing anything like this before it seems to me it creates a huge waste of material not to mention the mess of all those 1/2"pipes in the panel room
> 
> Anyone else run in to this
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


There's an engineer behind every stupid spec - and this one's no exception.


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## sureline (Jun 11, 2011)

noarcflash said:


> And just how many 1/2" EMT's will go back to the panel ?


You must be speculating a code violation, huh? LMAO!!! LOL!!! ...Do you need some code advice?

When you finish apprentice school, I can help you with that.:laughing:


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

sureline said:


> You must be speculating a code violation, huh? LMAO!!! LOL!!! ...Do you need some code advice?
> 
> When you finish apprentice school, I can help you with that.:laughing:


 
another dumb comment from the black hole.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sureline said:


> You must be speculating a code violation, huh? LMAO!!! LOL!!! ...Do you need some code advice?
> 
> When you finish apprentice school, I can help you with that.:laughing:



Please don't make us wait.... how about posting your answer NOW?


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## Roger. (Dec 18, 2011)

Bbsound said:


> if the fixtures are above 7'?


That would be 7.5' and the answer is yes, you must use a wiring method that the raceway is recognized as an EGC per 250.118 and standard MC does not meet this requirement. See Excepton No 2 to 517.13(B), it only permits doing away with the insulated wire EGC.

Roger


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Only electricians would complain about being paid to do more work.


That's not true...good work gets more good work. You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t:no:

Value engineering and a good EE stamp are worth a lot in capturing future work.


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## LightsOn81 (Jan 6, 2012)

The engineer that came up with that spec owns a supply house or is being paid off by a supplier


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Everyone is quick to trash the EE. Did anyone give thought to it may be the hospital's requirement ?? Not all stupid chit come from Engineers, sometimes it comes from the building owners.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Roger. said:


> That would be 7.5' and the answer is yes, you must use a wiring method that the raceway is recognized as an EGC per 250.118 and standard MC does not meet this requirement. See Excepton No 2 to 517.13(B), it only permits doing away with the insulated wire EGC.
> 
> Roger


 
For some reason this exception confuses the crap out of alot of people


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

would all 3 phases + a neutral be allowed in that 1 pipe ?
or just 1 leg and a neutral?


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

noarcflash said:


> would all 3 phases + a neutral be allowed in that 1 pipe ?
> or just 1 leg and a neutral?


 
According to the NEC the answer is Yes.
3 phases and a neutral are a multiwire circuit and are required to be on a multipole breaker or have approved handle ties. It is ONE circuit by the NEC


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## MasterE (Dec 31, 2011)

JmanAllen said:


> I didn't say in to the panel I said in to the panel room We will set a gutter above it but it's still a small panel room
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


25 circuits would be more than 30 current caring conductors in a wire way. Now you get to d-rate


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## JGarcia (Jul 9, 2011)

noarcflash said:


> would all 3 phases + a neutral be allowed in that 1 pipe ?
> or just 1 leg and a neutral?


The way I see it, a circuit consist of a complete path. So I would consider that the operate circuits even they have to be controlled simultaneously. 

Just my two cents.


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