# The house from HELL!



## Speedy Petey

Yup. That's CATV.









Halo mono-point.


















That is a zip cord going to a puck light transformer. The puck lights were being used as recessed lights, and of course the transformer was totally buried.


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## Speedy Petey

Water bond. Two #12's twisted.


















A 3-way dimmer, and a receptacle. BOTH worked!


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## brian john

Do not walk away from this RUN, because I doubt they have deep enough pockets to fix all these discrepancies.


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## John

brian john said:


> Do not walk away from this RUN, because I doubt they have deep enough pockets to fix all these discrepancies.


I will second that! You have to know when to bail out. Note that in picture #2 with the water and drain pipes. There is asbestos insulation on the pipes. This is another reason to bail out because you will most likely find more. Plus you might have to crawl around in the stuff. 

RUN!!!!


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## mickeyco

HOLY SH*T! Although a new use for plumbers putty.


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## frank

The job is a disgrace, If I ever come across such things I run away as fast as I can. I don't even want to be associated with any making good. Because you can't. I have even come across houses wired in bell wire!!!!!!!!!!!


Frank


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## Speedy Petey

It's all did!
A 50-something pair of really cool twin ladies from NYC bought the place and hired me carte blanch to fix everything.


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## jbfan

Great pics Petey!

PS How is the hand?


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## Speedy Petey

jbfan said:


> PS How is the hand?


Fine actually. I'd say about 85% movement and 75% strength.
He did say it would be probably 6 months to 100%.

Thanks for asking.


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## Dayne

Wow, if there was ever a reason to run. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but how does that 3 way dimmer work with the recep? I don't see a pair of travellers in the pic.


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## Speedy Petey

Dayne said:


> Wow, if there was ever a reason to run. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but how does that 3 way dimmer work with the recep? I don't see a pair of travellers in the pic.


You know, I stood there for about 45 seconds trying to figure out how they did it. Then I realized what a wast of my life that would be. 

They were switching the neutral somehow and using both travelers to feed the receptacle. BOTH ends were like this with a junction in the attic.
They were feeding that lovely mono-point in the pics.


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## Joe Tedesco

Probably some of the worst I have ever seen!


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## WIREDOG

how was the house ever passed for a meter? was this in the u.s. or a third world country?


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## Speedy Petey

The service was inspected. The house never was.

The head inspector around here took some interest that the service was passed.


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## gilbequick

That's just amazing. I bet the head inspector went back and found out who passed that service. 

How long did it take to correct all of that?

I'm glad the bill to fix all that mess didn't come to my mailbox!


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## BIGRED

"Ooo Fa", this is what you get when you do not want to pay! I hope it costs them thousands to fix that mess!!!


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## JohnJ0906

Speedy Petey said:


> The head inspector around here took some interest that the service was passed.


I'll bet he did.


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## Bkessler

I see stuff like that once a month is socal, And I finally learned to run. I hate to leave stuff like that but the only chance you have to fix it is when someone just buys the place and wants it fixed.


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## shazam

Thanks for the laugh Pete. :laughing:

I started to try to figure out the dimmer/recpt wiring and I had the same thoughts as you.....I don't need to know. :laughing:


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## Idaho Abe

*Thanks*

Thanks for pics I have seen worse but not all in the same house.


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## red-eye 445

got insurance?


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## Trimix-leccy

Still trying to understand the USA version of things...but I am getting there slowly:thumbsup:thanks to this site

Question...do you never fit any protective / insulating sleeving to the Earth [ground? / grounding?] wire ??


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## MDShunk

Trimix-leccy said:


> Question...do you never fit any protective / insulating sleeving to the Earth [ground? / grounding?] wire ??


Think about it... other than making the ground wire pretty, what useful purpose would sleeving it serve?


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## nick

*Bonus Time*

Well look at it this way they got a good bonus no material used ! but i didnt see any duck tape used did i miss something ? best to ya wow


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## william1978

I wouldn't even touch that house at all. :no:


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## JamesINla

I don't understand you guys...Why wouldn't you want that job? That is a friggin gold mine. The amount of work required to basically redo everything in a finished building? It doesn't get much better than that. A job like that will test every skill an electrician has with respect to residential code compliance and just good installation practices. If it's bid correctly, that is far more interesting that a panel upgrade or a NC rope job.


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## TOOL_5150

Yep, Id love that job "to do whatever it takes to bring the electrical system up to code"

Sounds like some people dont like troubleshooting. From the looks of it, it is mostly a complete tear out and new install.

~Matt


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## electricalperson

i worked in a house like that once. it had an electrical fire in it. i cant believe the home inspector let them buy the house. the panel was a complete rats nest and the HO decided to remove every wire off the breaker for whatever reason. there were so many electrical problems in that house it was crazy every box i had at least 4 - 6 major code violations in it. i had to replace so many burned and melted wires and it was incredibly hard to know where everything really went. he also engineered some weird water system controlled with solenoids and push buttons around the house i dont know what it did at all


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## justin4287

I can't believe they make us have licenses when people can do work as good as that......apparently they had several people in there that were real pros!


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## bobelectric

The only violation I saw was in the last picture. The receptacle had reverse porlarity. Gentlemen, there's our competition.


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## Trimix-leccy

MDShunk said:


> Think about it... other than making the ground wire pretty, what useful purpose would sleeving it serve?


In UK EVERY CPC [earth wire] is sleeved. Not to make it pretty [does look rather fetching in its little green an yellow striped jacket though]
We sleeve it to avoid contact with any other conductors in the back box etc coz it says so in the Wiring Regs. You can have a job knocked back if there is no sleeve. Heinous error, non compliance etc etc etc


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## electricalperson

bobelectric said:


> The only violation I saw was in the last picture. The receptacle had reverse porlarity. Gentlemen, there's our competition.


is that the only violation you see in all those pictures?


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## ralph

That looks like a money maker. I see that nonsence all the time, well , not quite that bad. This area is full of " jack of all trades----- master of none".


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## leland

I guess those DIY sites really are helpfull!

I saw a few things there that as described in writeing or with your eyes shut could be interpritaded as correct and safe.

All(most) of the cables had notes on them......


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## Mr 440

It's most difficult to be this to be a good job!!!


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## rude boy splicer

:no:
:wallbash:
wow, that's all i can say.
:scooter:


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## frank

MD

An American thing that I have noticed is the use of staples for cable fixing. Every US job I have scanned with my critical eye has had surface cable dressed in this way. I know that plastic cable clips are available over the pond and that using them makes a neater tram line job - so why do folks not use them?

Frank


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## randomkiller

frank said:


> MD
> 
> An American thing that I have noticed is the use of staples for cable fixing. Every US job I have scanned with my critical eye has had surface cable dressed in this way. I know that plastic cable clips are available over the pond and that using them makes a neater tram line job - so why do folks not use them?
> 
> Frank


 
In a word: COST


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## robnj772

They don't cost that much,about 19 cents each .I use them on all boxes that are bigger then a two gang.Figure on a three gang box you use like say nine staples,thats like 27 cents in staples right there,not to count labor in installing them and making the wire look neat.The stackers would cost you 38 cents if you used 2 but save you a couple a minutes so it evens out.I think it comes down to guys caring what their works looks like,someone who cares will use them,someone who doesn't wont.


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## chain_dogg

Speedy Petey said:


>


 


My Favorite !!


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## Frank DuVal

Speedy Petey said:


> You know, I stood there for about 45 seconds trying to figure out how they did it. Then I realized what a wast of my life that would be.
> 
> They were switching the neutral somehow and using both travelers to feed the receptacle. BOTH ends were like this with a junction in the attic.
> They were feeding that lovely mono-point in the pics.



It must be a Chcago three way as described in another thread. The common terminal of both three way switches go to the lamp and hot & neutral go to the traveler terminals of each switch. Common in the knob & tube era, but illegal now...

Frank


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## electricalperson

Frank DuVal said:


> It must be a Chcago three way as described in another thread. The common terminal of both three way switches go to the lamp and hot & neutral go to the traveler terminals of each switch. Common in the knob & tube era, but illegal now...
> 
> Frank


the book "old electrical wiring" has diagrams about this. ive actually come across these carter 3 ways and from reading books i was able to troubleshoot them. only reason people done it that way was to save on running one extra wire. highly illegal and highly dangerous now a days. reason its so dangerous is because they switch the neutral. if the neutral breaks the light is out and the unexperienced electrician will go up there to work on it and get a hell of a zap if he gets grounded. probably one of the only times id use a wand to check for power is when working on old knob and tube. you can also use an extension cord plugged into a 3 prong receptacle that you can use to test for power. put the wiggy in the neutral slot of the cord and the other end to the wires to check for power


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## Black Dog

Frank DuVal said:


> It must be a Chcago three way as described in another thread. The common terminal of both three way switches go to the lamp and hot & neutral go to the traveler terminals of each switch. Common in the knob & tube era, but illegal now...
> 
> Frank


Could be the Carter system as well..

*Carter system*

 The Carter system is now prohibited.


The *Carter system* was a method of wiring 3-way switches in the era of early knob-and-tube wiring. This obsolete wiring method has been prohibited by the National Electrical Code since 1923 (actual: see NEC Article 404.2 [3]), even in new knob-and-tube installations which are still permitted under certain circumstances. This wiring system may still be encountered in older "grandfathered" electrical installations.
In the Carter system, the incoming live (energized) and neutral wires were connected to the traveler screws of both 3-way switches, and the lamp was connected between the common screws of the two switches. If both switches were flipped to hot or both were flipped to neutral, the light would remain off; but if they were switched to opposite positions, the light would illuminate. The advantage of this method was that it used just one wire to the light from each switch, having a hot and neutral in both switches.
The major problem with this method is that two of the four switch combinations apply the energized wire to the outer shell of the light socket, presenting a shock hazard. The shell may be energized even with the light off, which poses a risk when changing a bulb. Because of this problem, this method is prohibited in modern building wiring.


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## B4T

Speedy... I can only imagine the stuff hidden in the attic and buried in the walls... greats pics.. :thumbsup:

This thread should be the poster child for my Carlon Blue box theory... :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Amish Electrician

Well, your hack was consistent  

It's like Deja Vu all over again ....

I've done a number of 'complete gut' remodels, and the story is usually the same: everything original (no matter how old) is basically OK, everything the occupants touched is pure hack. My oh my, are they creative in their hacks, as well.

My current project didn't look so bad ... but as a 1957 house, there was no ground wire. I noticed that every receptacle was a 3-prong (no surprise), that a couple of circuits had been added to the no-main panel, and that several receptacles had damaged drywalll immediately sround them. 

It wasn't until I started meggering the circuits did I get concerned. After testing two circuits, and having two failures, I decided to run 'temporary' wiring and not use the existing circuits during the remodel.

As I get deeper into the job, I am finding lots of little things that confirm the wisdom of that judgement call. Some examples are:

1) I found white romex leaving the panel and black cloth romex at the devices. Then I found evidence of a pretty bad attic fire - the wires ran through the attic - and, as you can guess, 'flying' splices;

2) I found an extension cord going from a receptacle into a hole in the floor. Sure enough, this had a 'flying' splice transition to some Romex, to feed another receptacle;

3) Many of the receptacle boxes were 'floating.' Guess that explains the drywall damage. Why they detached the boxes is a mystery to me.

All in all, not too bad. The universal nature of these 'little things' really supports my original 'complete rewire' call.

Naturally, the hacks didn't confine themselves to the electrical. Nope; the place has all manner of plumbing, mechanical, and even structural hacks with which to contend. If ignorance is bliss, these folks were the happiest guys in town!

Probably my favorite hack of theirs was having the wash machine drain simply dump the water into the crawl space.


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## Big John

Speedy Petey said:


> You know, I stood there for about 45 seconds trying to figure out how they did it. Then I realized what a waste of my life that would be....


 :thumbup: I was gonna ask how the hell it was rigged, but there's a lot of wisdom in these words.

-John


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## tbcorreo

*I found who do it !!!!*


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## electrocop

Most of the installations that are not meeting code are because an amateur did them, and they never requested for an inspection. As we all know the economy is bad and many people hire unlicensed contractors and noncertified electricians not knowing that the labor is cheaper and the hazards that come with cheap labor can be very costly and sometimes with a human fatality. from Riverside Ca Jose A. Guillen Icc residential electrical inspector


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## glen1971

I don't know that it is just the unlicensed contractors doing piss poor work, although I am definately NOT disputing that... I have seen bigger companies north of the 49th do work, with no permit, no inspection and then I go in to troubleshoot why it doesn't work, and I can see why they didn't get an inspection - they wouldn't pass...


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## rrolleston

My first big job was a home like this. The only way I would agree to take the job was if I was able to rip out all the wires and circuits in the panel and start over fishing all new wires.


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## electrocop

*house from hell*

In the interest of safety and working with good moral and ethics we all would want to do a good job and be recognized for that. :thumbup:


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## electricmanscott

Since this thread started in 2007 I was hoping that the newest post would be a picture of the house burned to the ground and an insurance company saying sucks to be you, should have had the work done legally. How disappointing.


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## rrolleston

Looks like my parents fixer upper that I did years ago. I refused to touch it unless we abandoned all the existing wiring and started over. I was not going to be responsible for something going somewhere we could not figure out. And there were way too many hidden splice boxes some even tied into old knob and tube wiring and cloth wiring.

That is the only way I would accept to work on a project like this.


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## retiredsparktech

In the second group of pictures, dated 6/22/07 shows the meter installation. It looks like it originally had an old "A" base meter, according to the siding cutout.


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## gnuuser

actually the house im living in *was* like that.
it didnt take me long to completely pull all the old wiring, panels, and all (complete rewire, and had all the plumbing redone as well)


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