# Tech screws and pool bonding



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

A stainless steel bolt.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)




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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Hey Ron does the pool have only one pump..? Looks good to me. surprised you passed with the tech screws..What town...?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

cbxvmcngfxdbzsFBdngsnxd


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Hey Ron does the pool have only one pump..? Looks good to me. surprised you passed with the tech screws..What town...?


Metuchen. 

How the heck do I make this right with nut and bolt?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)




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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I think it needs to be a machine screw. How think is that metal..


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Metuchen.
> 
> How the heck do I make this right with nut and bolt?


Before the pool guys install you install your lug. If it was already up I guess you could use a ss toggle bolt.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


>


Nice video.. :thumbsup:

That trench doesn't look like 18" deep.. but it must be camera angle.. :whistling2:

I use the self drilling teck screws with the big head for lugs..

Also brush Scotchkote over the lug and connection to keep it dirt free..

Next time you go to HD.. buy a vinyl fence post and use that for the TC and receptacle.. 

They are 5" wide and long enough to get (2) pools out of one post..

Put a fence post cap on top and you have a setup most guys out there don't even think about.. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> Nice video.. :thumbsup:
> 
> That trench doesn't look like 18" deep.. but it must be camera angle.. :whistling2:
> 
> ...


The PVC fence is a great idea. I will def try that on the next one.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Oh by the way... 12" down with GFCI protection meets the NEC.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Oh by the way... 12" down with GFCI protection meets the NEC.


I didn't see the GFI breaker.. got it.. :thumbsup:


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## Techy (Mar 4, 2011)

ilsco gbl-4dbt comes with a SS 10-32 thread forming screw. iirc the pilot hole for a #10 screw is like 9/64


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Is that post metallic? Tek screws dont meet grounding requirments but I'd say your install is safe.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Magnettica said:


>



I guess no one knows how to drill and tap for a machine scew..


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## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

Not to be critical of the work,
but I must step in here as I have installed my own pool like the one pictured and can tell you that Bonding to that pillar is nonsense to me. That pillar is NOT rigidly connected to the pool wall. The bottom plate just clips on and slides under the pool wall- the top plate of that pillar is also movable & isn't connected to the pool wall by metal That plate also clips on and the PVC holds things together. 
Is this what code says to bond it by????? If so, it should be looked into..........


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

What about 680.10 it says 18" if located <5' from pool walls.

I usually take that lower cover off and install the lug under it. Sometimes there is a machine screw already there, if not the tap comes out.

Is there a water bond somewhere?

Tom


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I would have drilled and tapped, hopefully it's thick enough to get a good tap.

Also I probably would have put the lugs on so they were vertical so the wire sat flat against the post thingy.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

So next time drill a hole and use the thread maker thing I normally use for old worn out receptacle 6/32 slots?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Looks really good btw :thumbsup:



Magnettica said:


> So next time drill a hole and use the thread maker thing I normally use for old worn out receptacle 6/32 slots?


Yeah.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> So next time drill a hole and use the thread maker thing I normally use for old worn out receptacle 6/32 slots?


Any of the methods below.



> *250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding
> Equipment.
> 
> (A) Permitted Methods.* Grounding conductors and bonding
> ...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> So next time drill a hole and use the thread maker thing I normally use for old worn out receptacle 6/32 slots?


These work good made by Greenlee..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1G5VP4YTHTZ1QTTBFVF4


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> These work good made by Greenlee..


A perfect application for those bits.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Any of the methods below.





> (6) Thread-forming machine screws that engage not less
> than two threads in the enclosure


Isn't that just another way of saying Tek screws are ok?:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> A perfect application for those bits.


Yeah just have your drill set on the lowest tork setting because they break easy if you are not carefull..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Isn't that just another way of saying Tek screws are ok?:laughing:


This is a thread forming screw, you need to pre drill.











This is what allows certain tek screws



> (5) Machine screw-type fasteners that engage not less than
> two threads or are secured with a nut


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Isn't that just another way of saying Tek screws are ok?:laughing:


Not really, thread forming machine screws are machine screws that form, not cut, threads as you drive them and aren't self drilling.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> This is a thread forming screw, you need to pre drill.


That's totally an F point thread cutting screw.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> That's totally an F point thread cutting screw.


Comes up as thread forming, show me a picture of what you have in mind.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Comes up as thread forming, show me a picture of what you have in mind.


I have the page you took that bookmarked I think, hold on......

Edit: http://www.elginfasteners.com/screw_types.htm


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Since it looks like sheet metal, can you use rivet nuts and be in compliance?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rivet-nuts/=cp7v63



> (5) Machine screw-type fasteners that engage not less than
> two threads or are secured with a nut


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The green grounding screws are 10/32 and with the Greenlee drill/tap are a snap to install..

I used that drill/tap to install ground bars.. the 10/32 threads always grab and so far never stripped out from too much hand torque..

Intermatic pool panels put the ground bar on the bottom of the panel.. much easier if located on the back..


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## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

mrmike said:


> Not to be critical of the work,
> but I must step in here as I have installed my own pool like the one pictured and can tell you that Bonding to that pillar is nonsense to me. That pillar is NOT rigidly connected to the pool wall. The bottom plate just clips on and slides under the pool wall- the top plate of that pillar is also movable & isn't connected to the pool wall by metal That plate also clips on and the PVC holds things together.
> Is this what code says to bond it by????? If so, it should be looked into..........


 
I am so surprised nobody has responding to my post, but just talk about a petty screw !!! That metal post is paper thin & is not BONDED TO the Pool wall !!!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

These are the screws I have used on metal supports for inground pools.. used them for years and always passed..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mrmike said:


> I am so surprised nobody has responding to my post, but just talk about a petty screw !!! That metal post is paper thin & is not BONDED TO the Pool wall !!!


In back of the post is the thick metal rib or the pool..

You would know right away if you were installing a screw into tin foil..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mrmike said:


> I am so surprised nobody has responding to my post, but just talk about a petty screw !!! That metal post is paper thin & is not BONDED TO the Pool wall !!!


The connection you are talking about is required by the NEC, and is how it is done.

Have no worries, every 3 years those code sections are scrutinized and changes made.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I have the page you took that bookmarked I think, hold on......
> 
> Edit: http://www.elginfasteners.com/screw_types.htm



That works good link....:thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I have the page you took that bookmarked I think, hold on......
> 
> Edit: http://www.elginfasteners.com/screw_types.htm


Thanks.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Thanks.


I'm quite confident I have a bookmark covering every random bit of info out there. I backed up my bookmark folders once and used most of a 2gb flash drive :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

To be clear here.. TEK screws are not compliant..

Self drilling screws = BAD

Drilling a pilot hole first and thread making machine screw = GOOD


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Lots of talk about drilling and tapping here but there is no chance of threading that thin sheet metal. Remove either the top or bottom plastic cover and nut and bolt to the metal piece that's under there.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

tkb said:


> Since it looks like sheet metal, can you use rivet nuts and be in compliance?
> 
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#rivet-nuts/=cp7v63


It just says nut, and rivet nuts are nuts, I'd say it's good.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I believe that self drilling, self tapping machine tek screws are ok, I am talking about the fine thread version shown on this site. They would have two threads in contact, and can be used with up to 3/4" steel depending on the variety you get.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

JohnR said:


> I believe that self drilling, self tapping machine tek screws are ok, I am talking about the fine thread version shown on this site. They would have two threads in contact, and can be used with up to 3/4" steel depending on the variety you get.


You can get them in 24 TPI but you still need pretty thick steel to get 2 threads. Even 32 TPI might not get you 2 threads in metal like that pool support.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Ought to be illegal, tinfoil _that_ thin.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

This looks like the same job electricalperson was bidding. Could Magnettica be the "cousin"?

Anyway, nice 2x6 structure.:thumbsup:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> This passed inspection recently but I know it's a violation.
> 
> How are you making this connection?
> 
> I have more pictures (even a video), if you'd like to see them.


 
Pull that cap off the post BELOW where you put that lug, under that cap are 3-4 screws that hold the post to the metal ring.

That is where your supposed to attach the lug,pull one of the scews out and put that lug under that screw. The screw is part of the pool and is threaded for the screw.

Snap that cap back on when your done and its a much cleaner look

Plus then you don't have a visible lug. IMHO if you did that to my pool I would not be happy.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks Rob. Half of the pool will be right up against a new deck and landscaping the rest of the way around so I don't think you'll even see these connections after that.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

I just skimmed through this thread, so im not sure if this was mentioned or not. The bond connection to the pool is supposed to be made where the seam of the pool shell is. It will be under one of those pillars that the current ground lug is attached to. When you open it up there will be a seam with about 20-30 bolts on it. Take one of them off and attach the lug to the bolt.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

I just watched the video, and i believe your mistaken about the 4 points of bonding around the pool. The bonding grid must have 4 points of bonding on the entire pool system. Pool shell, pump, water, and perimiter ground. Also, the deck must be bonded if it is a metal deck. You do not need to install 4 lugs around the base of the pool like you did. See my previous post about the pool shell bonding location.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> I just watched the video, and i believe your mistaken about the 4 points of bonding around the pool. The bonding grid must have 4 points of bonding on the entire pool system. Pool shell, pump, water, and perimiter ground. Also, the deck must be bonded if it is a metal deck. You do not need to install 4 lugs around the base of the pool like you did. See my previous post about the pool shell bonding location.


 
You have to hit 4 equal points along the pool AND the water AND the pump

So yes he does have to install 4 lugs


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> You have to hit 4 equal points along the pool AND the water AND the pump
> 
> So yes he does have to install 4 lugs


 
For Conductive pool shells, YES. For Non-Conductive pool shells, NO.

*(1) Conductive Pool Shells.​*​​​​Bonding to conductive pool
shells shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(1)(a) or
(B)(1)(b). Poured concrete, pneumatically applied or sprayed
concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered coatings
shall all be considered conductive materials due to water
permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite​
shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials.

*(2) Perimeter Surfaces.​*​​​​The perimeter surface shall extend
for 1 m (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of
the pool and shall include unpaved surfaces, as well as
poured concrete surfaces and other types of paving. Perimeter
surfaces less than 1 m (3 ft) separated by a permanent
wall or building 1.5 m (5 ft) in height or more shall require
equipotential bonding on the pool side of the permanent
wall or building. Bonding to perimeter surfaces shall be
provided as specified in 680.26(B)(2)(a) or (2)(b) and shall
be attached to the pool reinforcing steel or copper conductor
grid at a minimum of four (4) points uniformly spaced
around the perimeter of the pool. For nonconductive pool​
shells, bonding at four points shall not be required.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

I have to price an above ground pool installation next week & I have not done one since I was a helper years and years ago, good info here thanks guys.

Ron, 

How many labor hours?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> For Conductive pool shells, YES. For Non-Conductive pool shells, NO.
> 
> 
> *(1) Conductive Pool Shells.
> ...





That pool in the above picture has a metal ring around the bottom,and metal parts, making it a conductive pool.

Every single above ground pool I ever saw was a CONDUCTIVE pool except for the set and fill blue pools they sell at walmart

You commented that he didn't have to hit four points and from what you just posted he does​


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

The pool has a vinyl liner making it NON-conductive. read the code excerpt. ANd ive been told this my numerous inspectors, including Suzanne Borek. The biggest confusion with this article is that it was orginally intented and only applied to inground pools. In 2008 it was changed to include above ground pools that hold more than 42 inches of water. A pool with a vinyl liner regardless of what the structure is made out of that holds it up is considered a NON-CONDUCTIVE pool.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> The pool has a vinyl liner making it NON-conductive. read the code excerpt. ANd ive been told this my numerous inspectors, including Suzanne Borek. The biggest confusion with this article is that it was orginally intented and only applied to inground pools. In 2008 it was changed to include above ground pools that hold more than 42 inches of water. A pool with a vinyl liner regardless of what the structure is made out of that holds it up is considered a NON-CONDUCTIVE pool.


Well this got interesting.. lots of confusing information..

Why can't the CMP that is involved with Article 680 get these talking points straight.. :blink::blink:


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> These work good made by Greenlee..
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1G5VP4YTHTZ1QTTBFVF4


i snapped off my fair share of bits like that. i happen to like the old fashioned kind with the tap wrench


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> The pool has a vinyl liner making it NON-conductive. read the code excerpt. ANd ive been told this my numerous inspectors, including Suzanne Borek. The biggest confusion with this article is that it was orginally intented and only applied to inground pools. In 2008 it was changed to include above ground pools that hold more than 42 inches of water. A pool with a vinyl liner regardless of what the structure is made out of that holds it up is considered a NON-CONDUCTIVE pool.


 
Ok well it says as you said 42 inches of water, The pool in the above pic holds more then 42 inches of water

That code states a vinyl liner AND compsite or fiberglass shell, Sorry but all the pools around here have a metal ring.It doesn't say vinyl liner. it says vinyl liner AND

It states here http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/ccc_art/articles/ccc_sp06.pdf

on page 14

Exception: The equipotential bonding grid shall not be required to be installed under vinyl lined polymer wall,fiberglass composite,or other pools constructed of nonconductive materials. *ANY METAL PARTS OF THE POOL,INCLUDING METAL STRUCTURAL SUPPORTS,SHALL BE BONDED IN ACCORDANCE WITH 680.26(B).*

and when I was at my code update classes Suzanne explained that YES you need to hit 4 points if the pool has metal. All above ground pools sold in the NJ area have a metal ring.

Besides any metal within 5 ft of a pool or hot tub needs to be bonded anyway why the hell wouldn't you need to bond the metal parts of the pool itself just because the liner is vinyl ??????


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I have to price an above ground pool installation next week & I have not done one since I was a helper years and years ago, good info here thanks guys.
> 
> Ron,
> 
> How many labor hours?


Billable hours came to 12 and the HO did all the trenching. Something about I charge too much to do the trenching. If they agree to let me do the trenching than that's another billable 6 hours plus the ditchwich rental fee from HD. I try nit to have to do the trenching. After all, I'm an electrician not a well you know.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Billable hours came to 12 and the HO did all the trenching. Something about I charge too much to do the trenching. If they agree to let me do the trenching than that's another billable 6 hours plus the ditchwich rental fee from HD. I try nit to have to do the trenching. After all, I'm an electrician not a well you know.


What does HD charge for a trencher??


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

B4T said:


> What does HD charge for a trencher??


It doesn't say on their site but the trencher they rent only does 12 inches according to their site.

I got lucky and aquired a trencher that does 18 " off a landscaper who was down on his luck for $400 bucks

It was only used once, It kinda sucks because most of the places I have to trench have so many sprinkler pipes and crap I can't use it.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> What does HD charge for a trencher??


The smallest one they rent here goes to 18", it's not self propelled and goes for 88 for 4 hours.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

electricalperson said:


> i snapped off my fair share of bits like that...


 That's why I never bothered buying those. I've snapped too many taps while turning them by hand to believe that those things would last more than a couple uses in a drill.

-John


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> The smallest one they rent here goes to 18", it's not self propelled and goes for 88 for 4 hours.


Did you by chance mean it does not have a 'transport mode'?

Only not self propelled trenchers I have ever seen are accessories for skid loader or some other self propelled machine. They are also not self powered. 

I would hate to have to hang on to one that is not self propelled let alone try to make it move while trenching.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

kwired said:


> Did you by chance mean it does not have a 'transport mode'?


Yeah, you have to pull it along yourself.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> This passed inspection recently but I know it's a violation.
> 
> How are you making this connection?
> 
> I have more pictures (even a video), if you'd like to see them.


Why is it a violation?


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Big John said:


> That's why I never bothered buying those. I've snapped too many taps while turning them by hand to believe that those things would last more than a couple uses in a drill.
> 
> -John


the secret is to drill something that is thinner than the actual drill part. if you drill something and it starts to tap before the bit is through thats when it will snap


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

bonding barb said:


> I did not see any connection to a device for bonding of the water.there is a new product that is U L approved and approved for equipment bonding You should check out the website......................


I am sure the op used the bondsafe 680 plate.

But thanks for the spam anyway


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> the secret is to drill something that is thinner than the actual drill part. if you drill something and it starts to tap before the bit is through thats when it will snap


You need clearance behind the panel you are drilling also otherwise you will have same problem.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Big John said:


> That's why I never bothered buying those. I've snapped too many taps while turning them by hand to believe that those things would last more than a couple uses in a drill.
> 
> -John


 the trick to using the hand tappers is for every 3/4 turns you have to back it out the other way to let the little metal bits fall out. If you just go one way the whole way through you will break it especially the 6/32 tap and make sure you dont shift the angle while you are turning. Ive had my hand tapper for about 7 years now...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Bond Safe 680 plate. 










... and used a spilt-bolt connector to connect to the grid (which is #6 btw).


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Billable hours came to 12 and the HO did all the trenching. Something about I charge too much to do the trenching. If they agree to let me do the trenching than that's another billable 6 hours plus the ditchwich rental fee from HD. I try nit to have to do the trenching. After all, I'm an electrician not a well you know.


No wonder my customers love me, I hire my SIL and his freinds to hand dig my trenches and backfill too. Maybe one sprinkler line in ten digs, charge the customer $650, pay the kids and end up with a nice clean finished job.:thumbup:. Ditchwitch is for new work.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> No wonder my customers love me, I hire my SIL and his freinds to hand dig my trenches and backfill too. Maybe one sprinkler line in ten digs, charge the customer $650, pay the kids and end up with a nice clean finished job.:thumbup:. Ditchwitch is for new work.


As I'm sure you are well aware of... not every customer has $650 for a trench.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Lets get out of the trench.

I want to hear more about this not having to do 4 points if the pool has a vinyl liner stuff.

What do other think about that?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> As I'm sure you are well aware of... not every customer has $650 for a trench.


Most of mine gladly pay it, the kids go as far as reseeding after raking. I got them hand digging a UG service going in next month. I hate earthwork and shovels, that's for the younger generation or illegals.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Lets get out of the trench.
> 
> I want to hear more about this not having to do 4 points if the pool has a vinyl liner stuff.
> 
> What do other think about that?


I think we'd all be best off being on the same page. I believe this pool requires the 4 point bonding including the water and Bond Safe 680. An inflatable pool from Walmart does not require anything other than GFCI protection.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I think we'd all be best off being on the same page. I believe this pool requires the 4 point bonding including the water and Bond Safe 680. An inflatable pool from Walmart does not require anything other than GFCI protection.


I agree that it needs to be bonded at 4 points. I don't believe I've seen a permanent above ground pool without a vinyl liner.

If the pool has a metal ladder bonded, isn't that a sufficient water bond?


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> I'm quite confident I have a bookmark covering every random bit of info out there. I backed up my bookmark folders once and used most of a 2gb flash drive :laughing:


How much of that is ****?


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## TCON2998 (Jun 12, 2011)

*Pool bonding*

The bonding wire around the pool is 18" to 24" from pool or 3ft , I'm a little confused on this . Also is it necessary to loop the bond wire back to the pool or could you just tap off with a split lug and hit the posts on the pool? .Last,are lay in lugs are accepted in all areas or does it vary ?


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Here you go...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Why is it a violation?


Because of the 2008 NEC 

250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding
Equipment.
(A) Permitted Methods. Grounding conductors and bonding
jumpers shall be connected by one of the following
means:
(1) Listed pressure connectors
(2) Terminal bars
(3) Pressure connectors listed as grounding and bonding
equipment
(4) Exothermic welding process
(5) Machine screw-type fasteners that engage not less than
two threads or are secured with a nut
(6) Thread-forming machine screws that engage not less
than two threads in the enclosure
(7) Connections that are part of a listed assembly
(8) Other listed means
(B) Methods Not Permitted. Connection devices or fittings
that depend solely on solder shall not be used.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jefft110 said:


> I agree that it needs to be bonded at 4 points. I don't believe I've seen a permanent above ground pool without a vinyl liner.
> 
> If the pool has a metal ladder bonded, isn't that a sufficient water bond?


Yes, it is.

680.26 (C)

(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive
surface area of 5806 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed
in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted
to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in
680.26(B).


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

egads said:


> How much of that is ****?


:laughing::laughing: None, technically company laptop


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Because of the 2008 NEC
> 
> 250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding
> Equipment.
> ...


I knew I could draw it out of you. You knew the answer before you posted, and that is okay because it was a good question.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I knew I could draw it out of you. You knew the answer before you posted, and that is okay because it was a good question.


The way I really feel is that if it's required it has to be for a reason. The people responsible for drafting these articles, rules, and regulations I assume know what they're doing sand anything worth doing is worth doing the right way. You can bet the next pool I do like this will be done the correct, not with this dopey tech screw.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> The way I really feel is that if it's required it has to be for a reason. The people responsible for drafting these articles, rules, and regulations I assume know what they're doing sand anything worth doing is worth doing the right way. You can bet the next pool I do like this will be done the correct, not with this dopey tech screw.


Pressure connectors are always the best. I never really liked a bonding system that relies on a "twisty" type of squeezing effect that an angular thread of a screw would afford. Machine screws are vastly better. And, again, I think you asked a good question.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Where did "Electricjoe" go with his "if the pool has a vinyl liner you don't need to bond it" theory?

I really wanted to hear more about that.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

I never said you dont have to bond the pool if it has a vinyl liner. I said that you dont have to connect to 4 points of the frame with the grid. The 5 pools ive done since 2008 were all above ground pools and i did them all the exact same way and they all passed inspection. Also, they were all in different towns, and some in very hard nosed inspectors towns. I had perimiter ground, water ground (in skimmer), deck ground (if its metal) pump ground, and pool shell ground ( connection made at the seam of the shell). Ive never once been questioned on this, and every inspector wanted to see how i bonded the shell, and i would pull off a support cover and show them the lug under one of the 30 odd bolts on the seam. I also went a little overboard and used one continuous piece of #8. I dont like to rely on split bolts, and i dont do enough to warrant buying an exothermic welding kit.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Oh by the way... 12" down with GFCI protection meets the NEC.


Not to bust your balls here, I just did an above ground pool and noticed something in the NEC.

Just an FYI:

Table 680.10

18" minimum cover depth for pools run in PVC.


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