# 6 12 rule



## bgreen1922 (Apr 14, 2010)

What is the call for spacing on a wall behind a doorway? 6 feet from the jam on the wall where the door swing is a waste. Is it allowed to space it say 9 feet from jam, if its a 3 ft door, 

Just curious, I have alway done the 6 feet, but 9 makes more sense to me.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

why is it a waste..?


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## bgreen1922 (Apr 14, 2010)

I assume the code is ment for useable space. I dont see to many tables or book cases or lamps behind a door.


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

Six feet either way from an opening. In one direction, three feet of that space will be eaten up by the door, but you still have to do it that way.  What makes you think that nobody puts a table or dresser three feet from the edge of the open door anyway?

At least they were kind enough to not make us put a recep on the space behind the door swing, like they use to sometimes.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

You should read 210.52a1...no space more than 6' .........you have to measure from the jam...I know what ya mean about the door space but it is really nothing in the bigger picture..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kbatku said:


> At least they were kind enough to not make us put a recep on the space behind the door swing, like they use to sometimes.


If you have a space by itself wider than 24" behind a door swing the NEC requires a receptacle there.




> *210.52(A)(2) Wall Space.* As used in this section, a wall space shall
> include the following:
> 
> *(1)* Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
> ...


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

bgreen1922 said:


> I assume the code is ment for useable space. I dont see to many tables or book cases or lamps behind a door.


You assume wrong. :thumbsup: Receptacles aren't just for things that are usually stationary.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Behind a door on a 3' wall is a great place for a vacuum receptacle. It is nice not having to move furniture to get to a receptacle. Anyway, I agree the code makes no distinction. It used to be around here they would allow you to omit the recep. if the wall space behind the door didn't stick out move then one foot when the door was open. Not sure what they do know but we always install one there if it is T least 2 feet.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Gee, I was just talking about this in another post ....

First off, the code is not intended to be used as a design spec. Just because you CAN place the receptacle six feet from the door, it does not mean that you MUST.

If you're placing receptacles by starting at the door and using a tape measure, you're doing it wrong. 

The correct approach is to look at the room and place receptacles where they are needed - then, check to see if your plan meets the code requirement. It's quite possible that the result will be one wall with have two receptacles on it, while another will not have any. 

From the way you framed your question, I take it that you consider the space behind the door as unusable, and feel that it ought not be counted in receptacle placement. I once raised this issue myself.

I was surprised by the number of folks who replied "I really like that receptacle behind the door - it gets used every time we vacuum!." It is also a convenient 'feed' for a hallway receptacle.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Amish Electrician said:


> First off, the code is not intended to be used as a design spec. Just because you CAN place the receptacle six feet from the door, it does not mean that you MUST.
> 
> If you're placing receptacles by starting at the door and using a tape measure, you're doing it wrong.
> 
> The correct approach is to look at the room and place receptacles where they are needed - then, check to see if your plan meets the code requirement. It's quite possible that the result will be one wall with have two receptacles on it, while another will not have any.


Correct is up to the eye of the beholder.

Back when I had to worry about placement I went at it differently than you do. That does not make either of us 'incorrect'.

The first thing I would do is look at the room and see how many and where the code required receptacles would be. Once I had that in my head I would push them around to where I felt made sense. This often had the result of one or two more receptacles per room than the code required.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

There are a few things I look at. The first is which way the door swings and the next is where the bed will be placed. Generally we do a walk thru with the owner so that makes it easier. Once the bed placement is established I just check for where any built ins may be placed. I then try and place outlets no more than 10 feet apart, if possible.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Amish Electrician said:


> Gee, I was just talking about this in another post ....
> 
> First off, the code is not intended to be used as a design spec. Just because you CAN place the receptacle six feet from the door, it does not mean that you MUST.
> 
> ...


Well there you have it folks! The definitive receptacle layout guide.  :no:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I then try and place outlets no more than 10 feet apart, if possible.


Personally I think 10' is a much better limit than 12'.

I would not want the code changed, I just like to be a bit closer than the code requires.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I attack it as BBQ does.however the quote is for CODE minimum.

So,like Dennis, I arrive and mark it out,blue painters tape,then walk thru with HO/builder.Add and adjust,write up the change order and get started.

On private additions,working direct with the HO,I lay it out code first then as if I were going to live there. I get a lot of 'extras' that don't appear as extras,The HO is happy and gets a lot of things they never thought of but would regret later not doing.

work up the price and get started.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

The first house I wired for a slam-bang production EC, working with no plans, I placed the receptacles where they logically should go, and added a few more than code would require. The supervisor came by and started chewing me out. He showed me the "correct way" of measuring off the door 6 ft. then every 12 ft. thereafter. That wasn't the only issue we had. I didn't work there for long:laughing:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I like to take the time and do the walk thru. I hate adding after the fact,the way these houses are built now too much hassle.

Not like traditional old work.

My 1st addition, I placed a rec every 6'. Young and stupid,misunderstood the rule.
Same with the 20A SABC,20A rec. Never again!


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

leland said:


> My 1st addition, I placed a rec every 6'. Young and stupid,misunderstood the rule.
> Same with the 20A SABC,20A rec. Never again!


 Yep! Ive made plenty of these above and beyond mistakes. I figured it was better to err on the side of good judgement than to try and pull one that I didnt know if it was gonna fly or not.


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## bgreen1922 (Apr 14, 2010)

I was just curious, Like I said a always put them within 6 ft from the door, Just looking to save some time. When your doin a 300 unit apartment complex 1 less recp in a room saves some time and cash.

As for the vacume, I have never had to do to much searching for a recp in a room that was laid out at 6-12 min. There are always open receps in the room or a hall. I can vacum about 70% of my main floor in my house from one recp in the kitchen. Just sayin.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

bgreen1922 said:


> I was just curious, Like I said a always put them within 6 ft from the door, Just looking to save some time. When your doin a 300 unit apartment complex 1 less recp in a room saves some time and cash.
> 
> Correct. so,If doing 300 units- - should be spec'd and drawn out.
> 
> ...


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## bgreen1922 (Apr 14, 2010)

leland said:


> bgreen1922 said:
> 
> 
> > I was just curious, Like I said a always put them within 6 ft from the door, Just looking to save some time. When your doin a 300 unit apartment complex 1 less recp in a room saves some time and cash.
> ...


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## bgreen1922 (Apr 14, 2010)

leland said:


> bgreen1922 said:
> 
> 
> > I was just curious, Like I said a always put them within 6 ft from the door, Just looking to save some time. When your doin a 300 unit apartment complex 1 less recp in a room saves some time and cash.
> ...


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

bgreen1922 said:


> leland said:
> 
> 
> > No spec, design build, I was just curious as I have been laying units out thats all.
> ...


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## SHOCKnAWE (Dec 25, 2011)

If you follow the 6/12 rule and measure linear between the outlets, you would be in violation unless you put the outlets at floor level. The code reads that you measure from the floor, up to the first outlet 6', then from that outlet down to the floor 6' and back up 6' to the next outlet height. If the outlets are higher, for say, they will be closer together than 6/12. For kitchen counter-tops, the 2/4 rule is a straight line between the outlets.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

SHOCKnAWE said:


> If you follow the 6/12 rule and measure linear between the outlets, you would be in violation unless you put the outlets at floor level. The code reads that you measure from the floor, up to the first outlet 6', then from that outlet down to the floor 6' and back up 6' to the next outlet height. If the outlets are higher, for say, they will be closer together than 6/12.


Sorry, but this is wrong. There is no requirement to measure up from the floor.


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## SHOCKnAWE (Dec 25, 2011)

I have an inspector that called it that way on a job for a handicap unit where the outlets were 30" off the floor. It wasn't a job I did, but he said he called it. 

It certainly could be called like that since the code reads general outlet requirements are to be based on the floor line, unlike kitchen counter top outlets which are measured along the wall line. Is it likely to be called in a conventional dwelling? Probably not, but personally I would take note of it where dwelling outlets were set at a higher than normal. I'm sure it's all based on an item such as a floor lamp where the cord is at the base and being 6' long, you have to be able to plug it in either direction without moving the lamp. 

The code says its to be measured from the outlet to the floor, not outlet to outlet.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

SHOCKnAWE said:


> The code says its to be measured from the outlet to the floor, not outlet to outlet.


Wrong, wrong, wrong. :no:
This is simply a case of an inspector gone rogue. 



> *(1)* *Spacing.* Receptacles shall be installed such that no point measured horizontally along the floor line of any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.


The only thing I'll give him in his interpretation is that it does say _"*no point* measured horizontally along the floor line"_ shall be more than 6' from a receptacle. 
SO, even if his interpretation stood, you would NOT have to measure down to the floor at a right angle then along the floor line. You would measure directly to the receptacle from any point on the floor line. You do not have to _measure_ along the floor line, it's that the point you measure from is at the floor line. 

What is idiotic about this interpretation is that if your receptacles were at the maximum height for a required receptacle then you'd need on every two feet or so.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

SHOCKnAWE said:


> It certainly could be called like that since the code reads general outlet requirements are to be based on the floor line, *unlike kitchen counter top* outlets which are measured along the wall line.


Also, this is the exact same thing.
One is measure along the floor at the wall, and the other is measured along the counter top along the wall.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

What is idiotic about this interpretation is that if your receptacles were at the maximum height for a required receptacle then you'd need on every two feet or so.[/quote]
Maximum height. I didnt know there was 1 ?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

SHOCKnAWE said:


> If you follow the 6/12 rule and measure linear between the outlets, you would be in violation unless you put the outlets at floor level. The code reads that you measure from the floor, up to the first outlet 6', then from that outlet down to the floor 6' and back up 6' to the next outlet height. If the outlets are higher, for say, they will be closer together than 6/12. For kitchen counter-tops, the 2/4 rule is a straight line between the outlets.


 

:no::no::no::no::no:


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

I believe the NEC allows a receptacle to be as much as 6-ft above the floor, and still be counted as one on the required receptacles.

If you included the height from the floor in your measurements, the entire room could have a receptacle on every stud at the 6-ft mark, and still not comply with the "6-12 rule." The height above the floor is not relevant to the measurement.


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## SHOCKnAWE (Dec 25, 2011)

Generally speaking, for an average dwelling outlet height, each method could be used. One method for a bid job and the other for T&M.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

reddog552 said:


> Maximum height. I didnt know there was 1 ?


Re-read what I wrote. 



> .....the maximum height for a *required* receptacle.....


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