# Why is it hated?



## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I can't speak for anyone else but myself. I don't hate residential but I prefer commercial/industrial. Personally I get along much better with commercial customers and their expectations of cost/value. I hate attics and under houses. I prefer larger jobs with more complicated controls. Most of the commercial jobs I go to the customer requires lic, bond, and very high insurance so it weeds out the trunk slammers, if you get into a niche market this really cuts down on the number of bids I do to get the same number of jobs. Also once you get a good customer base, you have a lot of regular repeat customers vs a huge customer base you see infrequently. 

I spend $0 in advertising and zero time dealing with online social media,etc to generate or maintain my customer base. Oh did I mention, I HATE attics. Most of my jobs I build in enough profit where I'm not in a rush, I can do the work the way I want too for a better product, if something changes I can upgrade to different equipment and do what ever is necessary to make sure everything is right and the customer is happy(most of the time). The downside to the work I do is that supply houses dont usually carry a lot of the stuff I need on a day to day basis so I end up stocking a lot more material and parts. The other main downside is that a lot of the jobs you don't get paid for 30-90 days.

Do what ever you enjoy and are good at. There is money to be made in all the markets.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I avoid residential work for the very same reasons @MotoGP1199 does. I find that in residential work it's very hard to find customers willing to pay more for better. 

I also don't like doing work for customer's whose main criteria for judging who does the best work, is who wipes their feet and takes out the trash and vacuums up after themselves best. Understandably homeowners in their dream home are a lot fussier with cosmetic minutia than the average commercial customer. At a commercial site, if I leave a few insulation scraps on the carpet for housekeeping to vacuum up that night, nobody cares. In a house, it will be on Yelp how I could have killed their toddler if they found those scraps. Imagine a commercial job where the architect lived on the job, that's residential. 

Industrial, if you don't spit on the floor and flush after yourself you're above average for cleanup but nobody cares.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

I have it easy because of a circle of contractors who refer me to customers that need the work done _yesterday _and pay a premium to meet a deadline. My customers need me and so I deal less with the whiney penny pinchers. But generally resi sucks compared to commercial because your workspace is occupied by little Johnny's Lego collection or Suzie's Barbie houses - _all of them, ever produced. And Suzie is 55 years old. _I often yearn for a frosty morning at 6am all by myself securing 12/4 mc cable with doubled over mechanics wire, but I'm just not there yet.

If I never apprenticed in commercial I would have never started my own business. There are so many valuable experiences in commercial, especially building materials and wiring methods, which have benefitted me in resi and saved my ass on a lot of jobs. Resi is kind of cookie cutter.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I had a good run with a high end residential reno GC and I loved almost every minute of it. He paid well and expected high quality work. He believed in demo and starting fresh. I didn’t spend a lot of time crawling in attics and fishing wire. He routinely cut floors open for plumbing and electrical. It makes a huge difference working for a guy who sees big picture and understands trade coordination.

Now I do mostly commercial work and fail to understand the snobbery of working with high ceilings, armoured cable, T-bar, steel studs, EMT and pulling wire.


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## MoscaFibra (Apr 15, 2021)

I feel the opposite in my trade lol. I'm industrial, but I find most construction / resi guys consider me a hack because I can't legally wire a house. I suppose it depends what side of the fence you sit on. I generally find automation to be more interesting but I do find enjoyment in construction as well. It is nice to see a job get finished! Automation is rarely ever truly done.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

sparkymarky84 said:


> Why does residential get so much hate? At least, that's what I keep seeing? Wondering about it.


Hate by who? 
Workers hating residential work or Commercial worker hating residential workers?

As an industrial guy I hate doing Residential work.
As an electrician, residential electricians have their set of skills I have mine, but we are all electricians.


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

MoscaFibra said:


> I feel the opposite in my trade lol. I'm industrial, but I find most construction / resi guys consider me a hack because I can't legally wire a house. I suppose it depends what side of the fence you sit on. I generally find automation to be more interesting but I do find enjoyment in construction as well. It is nice to see a job get finished! Automation is rarely ever truly done.


Haha I was testing grounding in a substation with a current test set and had a foreman for the EC tell me I didn't know anything about electricity because I was just pushing buttons on the test set and using a laptop lol, he was not kidding.

TBH construction guys, resi guys in particular, have most narrow understanding of the trade. There are so many aspects and niches in this trade its insane.

On the flip side I just ran 20 ft of underground to a well house for a receptacle and some lights and it took me way too long and a few trips to HD and the supply house. 

I would have been fired twice lol. But it got done, it looks good and it's safe.

Just to play along with the thread that's why a lot of "industrial, controls, maintenance whatever guys" don't see construction guys as "real" electricians.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

sparkymarky84 said:


> Why does residential get so much hate? At least, that's what I keep seeing? Wondering about it.


It's boring, repetitive, and it sucks. Working residential while waiting for my application to the union to process was torture.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

When asked what I did for a living, I often would respond I'm a construction electrician.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I always found residential all about the Benjamins. No one really cares as you can not see the work, they look at the paint and furniture. We all know that proper lighting makes all the difference. Proper installations mean no safety problems, ever. Does that count? not much. I really do not care for the restrictions most residential projects present. I did one house in Phoenix 600 amp 3 phase 240v wild leg service. I remember 3 5 ton a/c's on the garage (8 cars). We had his and her's steam rooms. Never figured that out. The property had a guest house with a 100 amp draw if there was anyone in there. Every thing was electric. Most everything else was cost driven.


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## MoscaFibra (Apr 15, 2021)

SWDweller said:


> I did one house in Phoenix 600 amp 3 phase 240v wild leg service. I remember 3 5 ton a/c's on the garage (8 cars). We had his and her's steam rooms. Never figured that out. The property had a guest house with a 100 amp draw if there was anyone in there. Every thing was electric. Most everything else was cost driven.


600A residential....Jesus. That is a lot of juice. I have put in some heavy equipment on a line that didn't come equipped with that much juice


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

MoscaFibra said:


> 600A residential....Jesus. That is a lot of juice. I have put in some heavy equipment on a line that didn't come equipped with that much juice


Do you think they still get the residential rate?


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Yes they do get the residential rate. Which is a demand meter and the demand steps are not all that different from commercial or industrial here. I always assumed we would be called back for some form of demand control, never happened. I never looked at the meter once it was installed. To busy getting the rest of the electrical working. 
There was a 20 horse pump shooting through and 1.5" nozzle in the bottom of the pool about 5 feet deep. The owner wanted a Las Vegas type water feature. Worked great unless there was wind. The patio was about 10' wide so a lot of the water would enter the house. 
I was concerned with the amount of water shooting through the pool and having people in the water.
I was invited back after a year from completion. They did not run the fountain that evening.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

There is no shame in doing residential electrical work. The problem is the homeowner that want's to save a buck, and worse, not pay you, and the all the hack's and wannabe's from the Home Depot hiring hall that call themselves electricians. We've all seen the work these hacks do, but they are cheap. Turn the switch, the lights come on, all good. And the DIY'ers. We've all seen them too at Lo's or China Depot with j-boxes, plumbing fittings, and zip cord asking the sales guy how to do the job. 

I've seen nails driven down the center of Romex for strapping, RG-59 used to wire a pool room, and a whole house wired in SO cord. How do you compete?


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

FaultCurrent said:


> whole house wired in SO cord.





FaultCurrent said:


> *wired in SO cord. *





FaultCurrent said:


> * S O c o r d. *


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## MoscaFibra (Apr 15, 2021)

FaultCurrent said:


> There is no shame in doing residential electrical work. The problem is the homeowner that want's to save a buck, and worse, not pay you, and the all the hack's and wannabe's from the Home Depot hiring hall that call themselves electricians. We've all seen the work these hacks do, but they are cheap. Turn the switch, the lights come on, all good. And the DIY'ers. We've all seen them too at Lo's or China Depot with j-boxes, plumbing fittings, and zip cord asking the sales guy how to do the job.
> 
> I've seen nails driven down the center of Romex for strapping, RG-59 used to wire a pool room, and a whole house wired in SO cord. How do you compete?


One of the big reasons I stayed away from residential. I have a friend who tried to strike out a bit on his own. Found a carpenter running speaker cord to a ceiling an in the bathroom. He fixed it, only to get screwed out of 15k on another job by a non-payer. Took him to small claims court, all he got was a lien on his house, which means FA until he sells his house...


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

The most 'residential' I got in my apprenticeship was high-rise apartment condos. Concrete and steel stud... ENT, rigid PVC, ACWU, AC90. Even this realm is super cheaped-out. My employer at the time (union) didn't touch detached housing - there was no money in it. (This probably varies regionally though.) 

When I got into my self-employed chapter, I quickly learned about the residential service customer. Too many have an over-simplistic idea of what things cost and the time it takes. Never got into the home-builder circuit. Nobody wants to look at you unless your sqft rate is less than the other guy currently doing it. Then you have the builders that want to 'lease' your license so their labourers wire the homes instead.  

Frustration with residential is probably more accurate than hate.


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

On the plus side, nobody looks at me funny when I wear shorts and a tank top to crawl around a resi attic.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I only hate Rice.

I prefer not doing residential only becaise I'm to old and the soccer moms are to young.

Everything else is money in the bank.


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

Residential pricing is a race to the bottom. I look at the replies on here when someone asks "how much would you charge" and it ranges from some obscure sq/ft number like $3 to $12 a square foot, or more! Mind blowing. Also you're competing with EC's and GC's who use "sub-crews" that are not on the payroll where they pay crews that only do rough-in or trim. Don't pay taxes or insurance.
I like commercial because I'm on a level playing field, compete against the same EC's that work for the same GC's and pricing is based on real cost. We bid the same plans/specs and no one is allowed to lowball because bids are vetted prior to award.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

The homeowners who try to be their own general contractor are the worst. I really only like working for good resi reno GC’s and they do exist.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

cdslotz said:


> I like commercial because I'm on a level playing field, compete against the same EC's that work for the same GC's and pricing is based on real cost. We bid the same plans/specs and no one is allowed to lowball because bids are vetted prior to award.


I just awarded a 1.75 mil contract. I let it be know before hand that lowball bids will be frowned upon, as well as Fluff added to the bid to make it look better. They all new what the outcome of the project was to be and what was expected, amazing how close the bid became when you set the rules.

Cowboy


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

sparkymarky84 said:


> Why does residential get so much hate? At least, that's what I keep seeing? Wondering about it.


I'm not convinced people hate residential work. It's absolutely perfect for a one or two-man shop, and a perfect cash cow. I believe its nearly impossible to scale up beyond a very few very well-trusted close employees/ family members.
I cut my teeth in that market and I can tell you, you have to be an absolute go-getter and a problem solver to get into someone's house, find the problem, correct it in record-breaking time, collect the $$ and GTFO.
Renovations are very tough when working on a wholesale level for a GC. There just isn't any money for contingencies and changes. 
If you are starting out, its the very best way to make steady cash with very, very little investment or overhead. 

As for hating residential work, ask yourself why people dislike lift station work or working on slabs or roofs in the summer. People don't come on here and complain about that due to being so tired and dirty.


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

Southeast Power said:


> I'm not convinced people hate residential work. It's absolutely perfect for a one or two-man shop, and a perfect cash cow. I believe its nearly impossible to scale up beyond a very few very well-trusted close employees/ family members.
> I cut my teeth in that market and I can tell you, you have to be an absolute go-getter and a problem solver to get into someone's house, find the problem, correct it in record-breaking time, collect the $$ and GTFO.
> Renovations are very tough when working on a wholesale level for a GC. There just isn't any money for contingencies and changes.
> If you are starting out, its the very best way to make steady cash with very, very little investment or overhead.
> ...


Resi service is a complete different animal than resi new construction. Did you ever compete in new construction?


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

In many union locals there is a lower pay rate for doing residential compared to commercial.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

splatz said:


> I avoid residential work for the very same reasons @MotoGP1199 does. I find that in residential work it's very hard to find customers willing to pay more for better.
> 
> I also don't like doing work for customer's whose main criteria for judging who does the best work, is who wipes their feet and takes out the trash and vacuums up after themselves best. Understandably homeowners in their dream home are a lot fussier with cosmetic minutia than the average commercial customer. At a commercial site, if I leave a few insulation scraps on the carpet for housekeeping to vacuum up that night, nobody cares. In a house, it will be on Yelp how I could have killed their toddler if they found those scraps. Imagine a commercial job where the architect lived on the job, that's residential.
> 
> Industrial, if you don't spit on the floor and flush after yourself you're above average for cleanup but nobody cares.


Your mentioning about clean ups brings to mind something my father said to a home owner years ago.
We were on a jobs in a wealthy area house. We picked up the cuttings, stripping, and particles that the dust pan could. As we are packing up the lady ask if we are going to dust the furniture and floors. My father turns around and tells the lady, " my name is not Hazel". That did not go over well. That was a job from hell anyway.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

eddy current said:


> In many union locals there is a lower pay rate for doing residential compared to commercial.


Around here it's still not low enough. There used to be shops that only did residential and some small commercial with "B" guys. As the owners retired, the shops all went away. You just can't compete with the low wages around here. I would have avoided track homes and condos altogether if I never went Union. It's too bad we don't get that type of work anymore. You learn a lot more doing that then being a material handler on the big jobs. The pension credits are all the same. So if for whatever reason, if you get stuck there a little longer than you'd like, at least you get the pension credits. Health insurance was all the same back then also. Not so anymore.

I'm on a 70 unit residential Romex job now at "A" rate. First time in twenty years. I love it! I could do without all the trash though. I've never been on a job so filthy in my life. It used to be the first thing you learned was to bend over nails in 2x4s. Maybe that's just a North American thing?

Residential Jobbing (service work) might be better for the contractor, but not the employee. Wages are still rock bottom, and your schedule is all over the place. Oddly enough, sometimes the schedule may be the good part of the job?


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

HertzHound said:


> Around here it's still not low enough. There used to be shops that only did residential and some small commercial with "B" guys. As the owners retired, the shops all went away. You just can't compete with the low wages around here. I would have avoided track homes and condos altogether if I never went Union. It's too bad we don't get that type of work anymore. You learn a lot more doing that then being a material handler on the big jobs. The pension credits are all the same. So if for whatever reason, if you get stuck there a little longer than you'd like, at least you get the pension credits. Health insurance was all the same back then also. Not so anymore.
> 
> I'm on a 70 unit residential Romex job now at "A" rate. First time in twenty years. I love it! I could do without all the trash though. I've never been on a job so filthy in my life. It used to be the first thing you learned was to bend over nails in 2x4s. Maybe that's a North American thing?
> 
> Residential Jobbing (service work) might be better for the contractor, but not the employee. Wages are still rock bottom, and your schedule is all over the place. Oddly enough, sometimes the schedule may be the good part of the job?


Our local does lots of residential. Almost all the condo style buildings are union and almost 100% of new track home developments are also union. We also have many 1 to 5 men shops that do a mix of both.
The ressi rate is lower but the pension contributions are actually larger. Ressi is 40 hours a week where commercial is 36. At the end of the week it works out almost the same on your pay check.
We also have a comms division and rate but our market share is low on that


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Southeast Power said:


> As for hating residential work, ask yourself why people dislike lift station work or working on slabs or roofs in the summer. People don't come on here and complain about that due to being so tired and dirty.


I don’t mind lift station work. I don’t take no Sh/t and it smells better then some residential units I’ve been in.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I wouldn't mind doing six months of residential new work in the Chicago area. I'd love to rough in a house with 1/2" EMT. I guess it's just like anything though. When you have to do a lot of it, and you are always pushed to do more, it gets old quick.

It's the same in commercial / Industrial. Guy's say they like to run conduit. For some reason when guy's think conduit, they think laid back art work. They wouldn't say that if they had to get thousands of feet up a day. Then it's just like anything else. Lots of hard work. Although I might wan't to try it once, I'm glad never had to do high rise deck work. That's gotta send you home whooped and tired. Even if it's all ENT nowadays.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

cdslotz said:


> Resi service is a complete different animal than resi new construction. Did you ever compete in new construction?


We did one of those Carvana car tower projects.
it was a last look kind of a project. The best I can recall is we lost about 40k on that job.
We are not at all setup for plan and spec work.
The best analogy I can come up with is that you need workers that are more or less cattle, we have pets.


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## cutlerhammer (Aug 16, 2011)

sparkymarky84 said:


> Why does residential get so much hate? At least, that's what I keep seeing? Wondering about it.


Mark box locations, nail up boxes, pull Romex, staple wires, strip insulation from Romex, strip insulation from wires, twist wires and either use sta-ons or wirenuts,ons, etc...Over and over every day. Gotta love it....


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## Sparkchaser1 (May 17, 2015)

It's easier to fix your mistakes on a commercial job.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

What I dislike about residential is following a previous electrician. Right now I am on a partial house renovation. Upscale house that had a reno 10 years ago. Right now the designer and sheetrocker are not to happy with me. The ceiling and walls are now Swiss cheese. I have found many buried boxes and splices along with crappy wiring. The kitchen cabinets were changed and the designer did not think to tell anyone. My recessed lights are now placed wrong and several receptacles have to be moved. More cutting and patching. Are we getting any more money? No, we are on a budget. What's to like about residential?


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

kb1jb1 said:


> What I dislike about residential is following a previous electrician. Right now I am on a partial house renovation. Upscale house that had a reno 10 years ago. Right now the designer and sheetrocker are not to happy with me. The ceiling and walls are now Swiss cheese. I have found many buried boxes and splices along with crappy wiring. The kitchen cabinets were changed and the designer did not think to tell anyone. My recessed lights are now placed wrong and several receptacles have to be moved. More cutting and patching. Are we getting any more money? No, we are on a budget. What's to like about residential?


This is why I won't do resi work (other than troubleshooting/repair) without a written quote.

Exact materials and labor are part of the quote. If anything changes, it costs the homeowner more money.

I'm not in business to lose money!


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Dan the electricman said:


> This is why I won't do resi work (other than troubleshooting/repair) without a written quote.
> 
> Exact materials and labor are part of the quote. If anything changes, it costs the homeowner more money.
> 
> I'm not in business to lose money!


Homeowner is a several time repeat customer. It is the designer who screwed up. I had a talking with the HO about all the extra charges. On these jobs it is almost impossible to get change orders every hour. On this $4,800. reno job I would be up to over 30 change orders. Commercial is so much easier when it comes to design and plans.


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

kb1jb1 said:


> Homeowner is a several time repeat customer. It is the designer who screwed up. I had a talking with the HO about all the extra charges. On these jobs it is almost impossible to get change orders every hour. On this $4,800. reno job I would be up to over 30 change orders. Commercial is so much easier when it comes to design and plans.


I understand. I'm a small one-man shop, so I simply don't get into these situations, luckily!


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

kb1jb1 said:


> Homeowner is a several time repeat customer. It is the designer who screwed up. I had a talking with the HO about all the extra charges. On these jobs it is almost impossible to get change orders every hour. On this $4,800. reno job I would be up to over 30 change orders. Commercial is so much easier when it comes to design and plans.


On commercial that $4800 would be 3-4 days LABOR ONLY for one guy.


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

Residential involves a lot of working with possibly difficult customers. Some people aren't very good at this and after they've smacked a few customers upside the head with a hammer they usually gravitate to commercial


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