# Adding wire to existing splice



## marux (Mar 6, 2018)

Just wondering how you go about adding a #12 or #14 wire to an existing splice in a JB, should i redo the splice with the new wire or simply add it into the pre twisted splice and let the Wire nut twist it together.

Cheers,


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

marux said:


> Just wondering how you go about adding a #12 or #14 wire to an existing splice in a JB, should i redo the splice with the new wire or simply add it into the pre twisted splice and let the Wire nut twist it together.
> 
> Cheers,


That's such a puzzle that I recommend your lead man make the call.


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## Simpson Electric (May 22, 2012)

This is a doozie for sure....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Should I do a Telsa? No macmikeman, don't , please. Besides your older than him and your fingers have arthritis and will be sore so don't. Ok.


Condensed version: Bridge splice: Ok so there are twenty conductors under one gray wire nut (exaggeration). Ok ten then. Do not stick #11 in there it's too many. Instead just bust up the big pile into two reasonable splices with one "bridge" wire joining the two up. See how easy? Some dolts at electrical forums in the past when I described this method complained that the one bridge wire is now carrying too much load...... lol......... It is no different than what the home run is subjected to but hey, those guys seem to have drifted off to never never land anyway. There were some doozy's here in the past though. Yep , now my fingers are getting sore. Goodnight.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If the old splice is neat and in good condition, don't take it apart. Twist the new wire around the old ones. Ideal blues are best for this. If the old splice isn't very good, you might want to start fresh. Copper can weaken and break if worked too much so snip it and re-strip.

And listen to mac  .


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## Max C. (Sep 29, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> Condensed version: Bridge splice: Ok so there are twenty conductors under one gray wire nut (exaggeration). Ok ten then.


Which gray are we talking?










Or:


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

According to the wire nut manuals each size has a capacity...follow it! Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time. If you don’t pretwist it’s hard to get more than 2-3 wires to all go in evenly without falling out or falling halfway out and not making good contact. Third and this is getting off in the weeds if a wire nut is installed properly it deforms the wires permanently because it is cold welding them together. So it has a higher chance of failing if you don’t cut the used ends off and strip out new copper.

If you do troubleshooting and repair which is most of my business, I’ve seen tons of wire nut failures from all three causes. Taping is kind of stupid too. The open ones are only for clean dry locations so shouldn’t be used in damp or wet. The wet location ones can’t be reused and most bite into the wire to the point you have to cut them off. And if it falls off, you used to big of one or it was the contractor special no name brand from China. More arcing faults, fires, shocks, burned up wires, and destroyed peckerheads from these things than any other wiring method I’ve seen hands down.

I like to use them as temporaries and on low power/low stress joints only. Push ons and IDCs are faster and more reliable even in residential work. Better is insultaps but the price is crazy high. It’s also a very low cost way to differentiate yourself from the hacks out there. The best connections hands down are crimped on lugs and bolted connections but in residential work its total overkill and except butt splices takes way too long. Utilities even make ring terminals mandatory in substations. I hate using them except on CTs where if a wire ever gets loose under power it gets ugly real fast under power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

paulengr said:


> ...So it has a higher chance of failing if you don’t cut the used ends off and strip out new copper.


The only problem here is you're losing a little wire here every time and if the wire gets short, making a decent connection gets to be very difficult. 



> I like to use them as temporaries and on low power/low stress joints only. Push ons and IDCs are faster and more reliable even in residential work.


Are you saying you've had better luck and less trouble with wagos and scotchlocks than wire nuts?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

paulengr said:


> Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time.


I really wish you would go back to Mike Holt's with all the other people who have no actual experience.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Look at these connectors they have in Australia. Schneider bought a company that makes them. Why can't we have nice connectors like this?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Look at these connectors they have in Australia. Schneider bought a company that makes them. Why can't we have nice connectors like this?
> 
> [IMhttps://www.uniquip.net.au/wp-content/uploads/Screw-Connector-Single.jpg[/IMG]


We've got all that we need, young splatzle:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

OP...Telsa said what to do....ask your boss.

There's not enough info from you to help.

Such as the wire nut your using & how many
you're attempting to wire nut together.

Wire nuts have various UL listings as to a maximum
number (count) they will accept based on awg size.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I really wish you would go back to Mike Holt's with all the other people who have no actual experience.


I almost coughed my coffee up reading the “don’t pretwist solid as it will break off later.” 
I was beginning to think Of all those old splices popping open and burning the world down causing an increase in global warming.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

splatz said:


> Look at these connectors they have in Australia. Schneider bought a company that makes them. Why can't we have nice connectors like this?


Sorry, splatz, but that looks like a throwback to the 50's.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

paulengr said:


> Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time.


This is arguably the dumbest statement I have ever read on this forum, ever.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

paulengr said:


> According to the wire nut manuals each size has a capacity...follow it! Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time. If you don’t pretwist it’s hard to get more than 2-3 wires to all go in evenly without falling out or falling halfway out and not making good contact. Third and this is getting off in the weeds if a wire nut is installed properly it deforms the wires permanently because it is cold welding them together. So it has a higher chance of failing if you don’t cut the used ends off and strip out new copper.
> 
> If you do troubleshooting and repair which is most of my business, I’ve seen tons of wire nut failures from all three causes. Taping is kind of stupid too. The open ones are only for clean dry locations so shouldn’t be used in damp or wet. The wet location ones can’t be reused and most bite into the wire to the point you have to cut them off. And if it falls off, you used to big of one or it was the contractor special no name brand from China. More arcing faults, fires, shocks, burned up wires, and destroyed peckerheads from these things than any other wiring method I’ve seen hands down.
> 
> ...


Even in residential work? Tell me how an electron knows the difference between a restaurant and a house.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

paulengr said:


> Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time. .


Said no one that's actually twisted wires as an electrician.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

paulengr said:


> Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time. If you don’t pretwist it’s hard to get more than 2-3 wires to all go in evenly without falling out or falling halfway out and not making good contact.


You totally made that up. You should know that Ideal has had the instructions printed right on their very large boxes of wirenuts for generations on how to pretwist. Step #3 says "Pretwisting acceptable, but not required. For pretwisting instructions, see step #6".


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## Nixon (Mar 5, 2018)

Please pre-twist your solid wires when using a wire nut.. stranded wire will take care of it's self once its been twisted but ive seen too many dad connections done by other electricicians by not pre twisting their solid conductors. No need to burn up someones house!


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## QMED (Sep 14, 2016)

I love perfectly twisting the hell out of three #14's or #16's (stranded lol), cutting off the bad end, slipping the the crimp cap over the splice being careful not to let a single strand escape and then hitting it with with my Klein crimpers(and I actually use the part of the tool marked "INS" if you can believe that!).

So satisfying haha


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## StriickeN (Sep 11, 2017)

Sometimes im glad I read the whole thread, almost took bad advice


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I just skin my new wire, sort of half ass dress it down into the "curve" of the already twisted bundle with my pliers, then crank the wire nut back on.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Nixon said:


> Please pre-twist your solid wires when using a wire nut.. stranded wire will take care of it's self once its been twisted but ive seen too many dad connections done by other electricicians by not pre twisting their solid conductors. No need to burn up someones house!


You went full reta*d in the opposite direction as the other guy. 

It's my opinion that pre-twisting will make a better connection, if that is what you are looking for in that instance. But a good electrician can make a perfectly solid splice without pre-twisting. If a house burns down, that is the electrician's fault for not making the splice up correctly, not the lack of pre-twisting.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I just skin my new wire, sort of half ass dress it down into the "curve" of the already twisted bundle with my pliers, then crank the wire nut back on.


Most of the time the wires are short so this is what I do.

But here is an example of what could happen to one of the other wires in that splice:


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

paulengr said:


> According to the wire nut manuals each size has a capacity...follow it! Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time. If you don’t pretwist it’s hard to get more than 2-3 wires to all go in evenly without falling out or falling halfway out and not making good contact. Third and this is getting off in the weeds if a wire nut is installed properly it deforms the wires permanently because it is cold welding them together. So it has a higher chance of failing if you don’t cut the used ends off and strip out new copper.
> 
> If you do troubleshooting and repair which is most of my business, I’ve seen tons of wire nut failures from all three causes. Taping is kind of stupid too. The open ones are only for clean dry locations so shouldn’t be used in damp or wet. The wet location ones can’t be reused and most bite into the wire to the point you have to cut them off. And if it falls off, you used to big of one or it was the contractor special no name brand from China. More arcing faults, fires, shocks, burned up wires, and destroyed peckerheads from these things than any other wiring method I’ve seen hands down.
> 
> ...


:wacko::wacko::wacko:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Signal1 said:


> :wacko::wacko::wacko:


I bet his fingers were sore after all that.........


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> This is arguably the dumbest statement I have ever read on this forum, ever.


It definitely rates right up there with some of the blither "whackwork" posts.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok, I dressed my wire real pretty without pre-twisting. 
Now how the heck will I get it back in the Jem box?


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> I really wish you would go back to Mike Holt's with all the other people who have no actual experience.


Actually ideals instructions for terminating wire nuts is not to pre twist the wires. And the NEC requires us to install things per manufacturer's requirements

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

electrokinetix said:


> Actually ideals instructions for terminating wire nuts is not to pre twist the wires. And the NEC requires us to install things per manufacturer's requirements
> 
> Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


Really no frothing-at-the-mouth replies yet? I was sure this would start a ****storm

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

electrokinetix said:


> Actually ideals instructions for terminating wire nuts is not to pre twist the wires. And the NEC requires us to install things per manufacturer's requirements
> 
> Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk



Thanks for clearing that up. 
I knew one of us didn’t know how to read.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

It would have if Harry was still around.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> *Actually ideals instructions for terminating wire nuts is not to pre twist the wires*. And the NEC requires us to install things per manufacturer's requirements
> 
> Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


As usual, your post is completely false.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> As usual, your post is completely false.


As usual your complete ****

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

electrokinetix said:


> Really no frothing-at-the-mouth replies yet? I was sure this would start a ****storm


Darn, you were right about something here. 




electrokinetix said:


> As usual your complete ****


:vs_mad:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> As usual your complete ****
> 
> Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


What word was censored out? Transexual? Oh no, that's you. 

Post some of your pictures of how pretty you are in a dress.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> What word was censored out? Transexual? Oh no, that's you.
> 
> Post some of your pictures of how pretty you are in a dress.


Why do your moderators allow this troll in the forum? I thought this site was moderated

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> Why do your moderators allow this troll in the forum? I thought this site was moderated
> 
> Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


You are being chicken steve.

You posted something that was completely wrong. It was proven wrong. You ignored it and insulted the messenger.

Also, I explained to you the last time you called me a troll that at the time you were here for a day in a half and made 48 posts while I have been here for 11 years. Yet you are questioning why I am here?

I have a feeling you are FrunkSlammer. Not sure, but possible.

So, are you going to admit to making a really bad and incorrect statement and back out of the thread, or continue this? Your choice, Nancy.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> You are being chicken steve.
> 
> You posted something that was completely wrong. It was proven wrong. You ignored it and insulted the messenger.
> 
> ...


There's something seriously wrong with you. The point has gone well beyond whether I was right or wrong in my post. Ideals instructions do in fact say that pre twisting is not required. The reason is because applying the wire nut without retwisting makes a very secure connection. Also my post was kind of done in a tongue-in-cheek manner. But your shape like brain does not have the processing power to comprehend that. I don't care how long you been on this forum. My guess is that you have been an a****** on this forum for 11 years. Your words and behavior are unprofessional and quite frankly embarrassing to the trade.

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

electrokinetix said:


> Actually ideals instructions for terminating wire nuts is not to pre twist the wires.


Which part?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I heard it was gay selfie avatar week , anyone joining in lain:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

.........


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> There's something seriously wrong with you. The point has gone well beyond whether I was right or wrong in my post. Ideals instructions do in fact say that pre twisting is not required.


 They do, but that is NOT what you said. Let me quote your post again:

"_Actually ideals instructions for terminating wire nuts is *not to pre twist the wires*. And the NEC requires us to install things per manufacturer's requirements._"



> But your shape like brain does not have the processing power to comprehend that.


 I find it odd that you insult my intelligence when you clearly have a mental illness. 



> Your words and behavior are unprofessional


I am probably the most professional electrician in my office right now. 



> and quite frankly embarrassing to the trade.


 More embarrassing than a male electrician who wears dresses? What's that they say about throwing stones in the woods? I mean the Pope in glass houses? Darn it, it's one of those. Catholic bears?


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> They do, but that is NOT what you said. Let me quote your post again:
> 
> "_Actually ideals instructions for terminating wire nuts is *not to pre twist the wires*. And the NEC requires us to install things per manufacturer's requirements._"
> 
> ...


What the hell are you talking about? Your words do not reflect that of a professional person

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

​


emtnut said:


> I heard it was gay selfie avatar week , anyone joining in lain:


Wasn’t that Lance Bass?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Your words do not reflect that of a professional person


Oh yeah? Well they are definitely the words of an awesome person. And handsome, you'd like me.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Oh yeah? Well they are definitely the words of an awesome person. And handsome, you'd like me.


For one, you know nothing about me. Secondly, from your words you are not an awesome person, you are a hateful bigot with nothing better to do than insult people on forums all day. What kind of life is that?

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> ​
> Wasn’t that Lance Bass?


Remember the guy who used the Jonathan Taylor Thomas avatar? :vs_laugh:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Remember the guy who used the Jonathan Taylor Thomas avatar? :vs_laugh:


:surprise:
Some things are best forgotten


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> For one, you know nothing about me. Secondly, from your words you are not an awesome person, you are a hateful bigot with nothing better to do than insult people on forums all day. What kind of life is that?


So let's just get this straight...

You have been following me around.
You found a post I made and replied saying I was wrong.
You were actually wrong and multiple people posted proof.
You don't admit to it.
You call me a troll and question why I have been here for 11 years while you have been here for 4 days.
You have 3 times as many posts per day as I do, yet say that I spend all day here.
You call me the hateful bigot even though it's you who has been stalking me thru threads.

Makes sense... Typical liberal hypocrisy.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Remember the guy who used the Jonathan Taylor Thomas avatar? :vs_laugh:


I don't see the humor in this :vs_mad:


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> So let's just get this straight...
> 
> You have been following me around.
> You found a post I made and replied saying I was wrong.
> ...


Typical self-centered narcissist to think that I'm following you around lol. You're so dumb. You have no defense for anything you said. If you said those things on a job site at least in a professional setting (which is the type of setting I work in), you would be fired, suspended, or at least severely reprimanded. But I doubt very much you would say these things to my face. I'm 6'4" and I lift weights daily. I'm guessing you would drop like a sack of potatoes.

Oh and my muscular arms look great in my strapless

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I'd give sh!t to an apprentice for not twisting the wires , Not sure what I'd do if he recommended using a VFD on a portable saw .... Guess we'd keep him around for comic relief :biggrin:


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

emtnut said:


> I'd give sh!t to an apprentice for not twisting the wires , Not sure what I'd do if he recommended using a VFD on a portable saw .... Guess we'd keep him around for comic relief


Yet another ape who can't comprehend sarcasm

Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

emtnut said:


> I don't see the humor in this :vs_mad:


Dude, I cracked up. I'm still laughing :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

electrokinetix said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Your words do not reflect that of a professional person
> 
> Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


So, when YOU give out wrong information, you are still a professional because it was just sarcasm :vs_whistle:

Oh, I'm 6'7" , and I lift weights too ..... with my nutsac :biggrin:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

emtnut said:


> So, when YOU give out wrong information, you are still a professional because it was just sarcasm :vs_whistle:
> 
> Oh, I'm 6'7" , and I lift weights too ..... with my nutsac :biggrin:


Was that last part a poke at me? Cause if it was, I will show you my muscular arms. You'll be scared then :vs_laugh:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Was that last part a poke at me? Cause if it was, I will show you my muscular arms. You'll be scared then :vs_laugh:


Ohhhhh, does this mean you're going to send me pics again ?? :brows:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

emtnut said:


> So, when YOU give out wrong information, you are still a professional because it was just sarcasm :vs_whistle:
> 
> Oh, I'm 6'7" , and I lift weights too ..... with my nutsac :biggrin:


I'm skinny and my arm gets tired brushing my teeth. Does that make me a lesser tradesman?

Here's a hint to that question: My brain can lift twice the weight you can. Here's another hint: Hack would dance around you on the jobsite.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

99cents said:


> I'm skinny and my arm gets tired brushing my teeth. Does that make me a lesser tradesman?
> 
> Here's a hint to that question: My brain can lift twice the weight you can. Here's another hint: Hack would dance around you on the jobsite.


That's cause you walk around with a hockey helmet on :biggrin:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

emtnut said:


> That's cause you walk around with a hockey helmet on :biggrin:


Sorry, nut. I didn't realize it was you with your new surgery. I'm sorry, I wouldn't normally say bad things about you  .


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Here's another hint: Hack would dance around you on the jobsite.


I can't tell, was 99cents being mean again or saying something nice?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BTW, don't you guys love making threads awesome?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I can't tell, was 99cents being mean again or saying something nice?


Both.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I wouldn't call what I typically do on jobsites dancing... I think prancing describes it much better.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> BTW, don't you guys love making threads awesome?


This thread delivered :biggrin:


My new awesome avatar is an added bonus :vs_laugh:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

99cents said:


> I'm skinny and my arm gets tired brushing my teeth. Does that make me a lesser tradesman?
> 
> Here's a hint to that question: My brain can lift twice the weight you can. Here's another hint: Hack would dance around *with* you on the jobsite.





HackWork said:


> I can't tell, was 99cents being mean again or saying something nice?



It was a typo ... I fixed it for him


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I feel awful. I belittled a Canadian. This is a bad day.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I feel awful. I belittled a Canadian. This is a bad day.


A Canadian with a JTT avatar. That's double bad, maybe even triple. You never mess with JTT.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> You are being chicken steve.
> 
> You posted something that was completely wrong. It was proven wrong. You ignored it and insulted the messenger.
> 
> ...


Awesome...pop corn is ready...keep going please:devil3:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> So let's just get this straight...
> 
> You have been following me around.
> You found a post I made and replied saying I was wrong.
> ...


I think he likes you....."Like-Like's" you...:vs_laugh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Sorry buddy, but this one seemed to die down quicker than usual. Maybe electrokinetix learned his place.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I don't know about you guys, but I like when I take a wirenut off, and all the hots fly out like an umbrella :biggrin:

Now I know that Ideal wants us to do it that way :glasses:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> BTW, don't you guys love making threads awesome?


I'm late to the fun because of, you know, work and all. But being awesome is all I know how to do. It's almost crippling sometimes.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> I'm late to the fun because of, you know, work and all. But being awesome is all I know how to do. It's almost crippling sometimes.


You must be UPS cause your avatar has some nice packages!

BTW, you should never let work get in the way of good foruming.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

RePhase277 said:


> I'm late to the fun because of, you know, work and all. But being awesome is all I know how to do. It's almost crippling sometimes.



I'm suddenly very attracted to you :blush:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

emtnut said:


> I'm suddenly very attracted to you :blush:


Don't lie. You've always had a thing for me. You're the only reason I have a passport.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

RePhase277 said:


> Don't lie. You've always had a thing for me. You're the only reason I have a passport.


I thought it was mutual, but then you go and post a pic of Hax kissing you :sad:

I need some time in my quiet space :crying:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

emtnut said:


> I thought it was mutual, but then you go and post a pic of Hax kissing you :sad:
> 
> I need some time in my quiet space :crying:


So I guess this means sex is out of the question??


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> So I guess this means sex is out of the question??


OK fine, but I'm not making you a sandwich after :biggrin:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

This thread is now officially gay


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

emtnut said:


> OK fine, but I'm not making you a sandwich after :biggrin:


The sandwich is all I really want :sad:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

lighterup said:


> This thread is now officially gay



Makes you wonder where the OP went :biggrin:

Admit it Lighter ... you keep coming back for the avatars


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The OP hasn't returned since he posted the question. I can't wait to see what he says lol.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

emtnut said:


> Makes you wonder where the OP went :biggrin:


who?...the elctronetflix guy?

nevermind ...I had to go look ...forgot who
started this cluster f**k


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> The sandwich is all I really want :sad:


Really?? , you ... me ... rephase ... in a sandwich? :biggrin:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

emtnut said:


> Makes you wonder where the OP went :biggrin:
> 
> Admit it Lighter ... you keep coming back for the avatars


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:that's hilarious.

"okay...I'll stay away...no-no-no don't do it don't look...
doooonnnn't ...OKAY JUST A QUICK PEEK!:vs_laugh:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

99cents said:


> Sorry, splatz, but that looks like a throwback to the 50's.


I think I know what you mean, it looks like those old wire nuts with the set screw. I think Ideal might even still make those ... not sure whether they suck or not. 

But I think these are more like a pressure plate inside there, in other words it isn't the screw that bears directly on the wires. That's what I really want, something secure like a split bolt but already insulated, or like a Polaris only not gigantic.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

splatz said:


> I think I know what you mean, it looks like those old wire nuts with the set screw. I think Ideal might even still make those ... not sure whether they suck or not.
> 
> But I think these are more like a pressure plate inside there, in other words it isn't the screw that bears directly on the wires. That's what I really want, something secure like a split bolt but already insulated, or like a Polaris only not gigantic.


Oh thank Gawd...someones changing the direction of
this **** thread


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> You went full reta*d in the opposite direction as the other guy.
> 
> It's my opinion that pre-twisting will make a better connection, if that is what you are looking for in that instance. But a good electrician can make a perfectly solid splice without pre-twisting. If a house burns down, that is the electrician's fault for not making the splice up correctly, not the lack of pre-twisting.


I have looked at this quite a bit out of curiosity. 

With #14 and #12 wire up to maybe four conductors, nice straight wires lying nicely, not stripped too short, and a wire nut that comfortably holds them - room for more - the wire nut usually twists the wire beautifully. 

If I pre twist them myself, it's not "usually" it's "always" and the bundle that I insert into the nut is trimmed just right. So I prefer to pre-twist. 

I am not sure, and will **** around splicing scraps of wire and undoing them and looking at them in my laboratory / garage for years yet before I'll know for sure.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> I think I know what you mean, it looks like those old wire nuts with the set screw. I think Ideal might even still make those ... not sure whether they suck or not.
> 
> But I think these are more like a pressure plate inside there, in other words it isn't the screw that bears directly on the wires. That's what I really want, something secure like a split bolt but already insulated, or like a Polaris only not gigantic.


Why?

I understand your initial motivation, but then we have to admit that wirenuts work just fine. So what will the screw connector do for you?

Even wagos work better than the wire's insulation:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

lighterup said:


> This thread is now officially gay


What does it take to make a thread "officially" gay?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> What does it take to make a thread "officially" gay?


A man in drag talking about how good his biceps look in a spaghetti strap dress?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> A man in drag talking about how good his biceps look in a spaghetti strap dress?


That would surely do it.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

MTW said:


> What does it take to make a thread "officially" gay?


 
I think it just has to involve Hax in some way?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> A man in drag talking about how good his biceps look in a spaghetti strap dress?


or three men in a sandwich should do it too
:glasses:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

emtnut said:


> I heard it was gay selfie avatar week , anyone joining in lain:


In...


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

splatz said:


> In...


When I looked at my notifications, and saw the avatar ...:laughing::laughing:

:lol::lol::lol:


I'm still LOL :biggrin:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

lighterup said:


> Oh thank Gawd...someones changing the direction of
> this **** thread


You are by now disappointed, but for that brief moment, you're welcome.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey guys, what's going on?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Why?
> 
> I understand your initial motivation, but then we have to admit that wirenuts work just fine. So what will the screw connector do for you?
> 
> ...


I've been using Ideal push in connectors in lieu
of wire nuts for years and have not had a problem
or incident of them melting. I"m talking a whole 
house or remodel.

I've heard guys say they did not like them and
I have had times when I came across "others" 
usage , troubleshooting someones work and once
the reason the afci was tripping cause the guy who
did the make ups stripped an inch off of all wires 
and when they folded in to the box , the bare
excess stripping of neutral & ground would make contact.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Why?
> 
> I understand your initial motivation, but then we have to admit that wirenuts work just fine. So what will the screw connector do for you?
> 
> ...


Mostly bigger wires and special cases. I was replacing a thermostat for electric heat a few weeks ago, #10 wire (lever nuts only go to #12) and the wire was pitifully short. I would feel better about this thing that extending the wire with a screw terminal butt splice. 

I think they also might be better for small motors where there's vibration and not room for bulky connectors, and leads too short to split bolt and tape. 

Do you use the lever nuts on circuits that are heavily loaded? I see the video but I trust the wire nut, so much more surface area of contact... These connectors would have that good surface area too.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

emtnut said:


> Really?? , you ... me ... rephase ... in a sandwich? :biggrin:


I'm already oiled up. And. Rock. Hard.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

lighterup said:


> I've been using Ideal push in connectors in lieu
> of wire nuts for years and have not had a problem
> or incident of them melting. I"m talking a whole
> house or remodel.
> ...


A friend of mine made the switch a few years ago and says he hasn't had one problem either...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Mostly bigger wires and special cases. I was replacing a thermostat for electric heat a few weeks ago, #10 wire (lever nuts only go to #12) and the wire was pitifully short. I would feel better about this thing that extending the wire with a screw terminal butt splice.
> 
> I think they also might be better for small motors where there's vibration and not room for bulky connectors, and leads too short to split bolt and tape.
> 
> Do you use the lever nuts on circuits that are heavily loaded? I see the video but I trust the wire nut, so much more surface area of contact... These connectors would have that good surface area too.


I don't usually use lever nuts for circuits that will have a big load and I don't often use them in panels either. I will typically use wirenuts, which I know are bulletproof. 

The bigger connector in the pictures does 1/0-#14. The smaller one does #2-14. It's very small and would work fine for you.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> A friend of mine made the switch a few years ago and says he hasn't had one problem either...


The only thing I don't like about the standard Wagos is that it could be hard to push in the wires, especially if they are short and you can't get a good grip. I also don't like using them for stranded, a few strands always push off to the side and that's perfect to cause a short.

Both of those issues are fixed by using the Lever Nut.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I don't remember seeing those short ones, I will be keeping those on hand at all time. 

The OCD does wish they had a side by side splice like that as well as a butt so it lays and folds nicer.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is the larger one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackbu...rier-Wire-Stop-2-Pack-ASR1114-B2-10/100126602
This is the smaller one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackbu...rier-Wire-Stop-2-Pack-ASR0214-B2-10/100172350

Yes, the smaller one is more expensive. But they are nice in small subpanels when you have to extend the feeders.

And these are the big ones that will do a 200A service (They are actually rounded, not square like in the picture): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackbu...lid-Barrier-Wire-Stop-ASR2506-B1-10/100190266


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Can I put Swampy back?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> The only thing I don't like about the standard Wagos is that it could be hard to push in the wires, especially if they are short and you can't get a good grip. I also don't like using them for stranded, a few strands always push off to the side and that's perfect to cause a short.
> 
> Both of those issues are fixed by using the Lever Nut.


I don't like removing the wire from regular push ins, you pull on the wire while twisting and it works its way out. But I don't think that's necessarily good for the other wires in the connector. You can remove and replace the wires in the lever nuts repeatedly with no real effect on the wires.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Can I put Swampy back?


H**l No! This just took me 1/2 hr to put 
on all my make up:vs_mad:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

lighterup said:


> This thread is now officially gay


I agree. 
I leave for a few minutes and when I get back, I find a big jobsite group hug with prancing men in strapless dresses.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> I agree.
> I leave for a few minutes and when I get back, I find a big jobsite group hug with prancing men in strapless dresses.


and you didn't even notice my top hat & cane...hmppph


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

*post-twist*

I was curious so took a wing nut back off

would pre-twisting have improved connection?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

lighterup said:


> and you didn't even notice my top hat & cane...hmppph


You look marvelous in that,,,, so dapper


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

readydave8 said:


> I was curious so took a wing nut back off
> 
> would pre-twisting have improved connection?


In my experience, installing a wirenut on loose wires doesn’t twist the conductors together that much. You must have really torqued that wirenut down. And if you are going to do that, I find it easier to just use my lineman pliers to twist the wires together first instead of using my finger tips to do all the work on the wirenut.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

....


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I went out to the lab and put together this side-by-side comparison. One is twisted with linesmen's pliers, the other with just a wirenut. Can you spot which is which?


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

HackWork said:


> finger tips to do all the work on the wirenut.


After starting I use the Ideal screwdriver/combo tool to tighten

Sure do like the lever nuts by the way, as per your advice


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I can't get a good splice pretwisting with a linesman *any longer*. Mine used to be bulletproof, but the hands are not as strong as once. So now I grip the wirenut wrench in my right hand and use a tan twister to go over 3 or 4 #14 or twelves and start twisting using my whole hand. And keep twisting for a while. Once the wires wrap up around each other back where they are insulated and not in the nut I stop. And then I look real careful at the wire nut to make sure I didn't just poke one wire thru it or ruin the wirenut by overtorking it too much. If I remove the nut the wire ends are spun up perfectly doing this, as good as my old linesman way. (maybe better, it would take Brians explodo machine to really answer that question.) I could just slip that red wire nut wrench into my makita impact, but that bastard will usually overdrive the wires right thru the damn plastic unless I am really cautious with it. I don't like impacting the wire nuts. Hand turn them. This isn't the end of the world. Worse things can happen to your d!ck at a certain age than what this wire nut calamity causes to your hand, so I recommend you take good care of your d!ck and keep it out of Hack's ass you bunch of *******. Have a good day! :biggrin:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> so I recommend you take good care of your d!ck and keep it out of Hack's ass you bunch of *******.


Bologna.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

......


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## WPNortheast (Jun 4, 2017)

Untwist slightly, lay wire in, twist back together. Voila


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

WPNortheast said:


> Untwist slightly, lay wire in, twist back together. Voila


I find that most of the time I actually hope the bundle stays twisted because I'm normally adding something to a hot circuit.


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

"Second, you never pretwist solid wires and it is optional with stranded. If you pretwist it overstretched the wire and will break off over time."

:vs_laugh:


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