# inspector removed bonding jumper



## jimmy21

I haven't done residential work since my apprenticeship, but I'm working on my own house. I did a service change, installed a meter main outside and a large sub panel inside. I made sure my ground and neutral were totally separate. The inspector came and I didn't mention I was an electrician, but if he couldn't tell from my installation, he's an idiot, because I really took my time. He looked in the sub panel and and sees the bonding jumper that bonds the metal enclosure to the ground. Thinking that Im a homeowner he starts explaining that I can't have that jumper in there because "it makes this a service and this is a sub panel." I respond, "my grounds and nuetrals are separate, that jumper just bonds the metal can." He says "right and you can only do that in a service and this is a sub panel, do you know the difference?" Then he pulled out a screwdriver and removed it. I was in complete shock that an inspector doesn't know the difference between bonding a piece of metal and bonding a neutral. The worst part is that I live in a large city. He is not a jack of all trades inspector, he's one of several dedicated electrical inspectors


----------



## 480sparky

If your main is outside, then you should NOT bond the neutral at the panel inside.

If the bond is for the grounding bar, then it should have been left in place.


----------



## Meadow

Ground needs to be bonded to the can, not the neutral. Is this a GE or Siemens panel with the split able neutral buss bars?


----------



## 3xdad

He's got some brass, tool'n around in someone else's panel.

i'd love to have that leverage photo.


----------



## jimmy21

Yes, I should have mentioned that. The jumper bonded from the ground bar to the can. The neutral bar is on the other side and I removed the jumper that bonds the two together.

I even thought maybe the inspector was thinking that my ground was my neutral, even though its entirely obvious. Nope, he wasn't confused on that. He just thinks that metal cans and ground bars can't be connected in sub panels.


Its an Eaton panel


----------



## ablyss

If the neutrals were isolated from the frame and the ground jumper was bonding the grounding lug then there was nothing wrong here.


----------



## jimmy21

heres a picture before the inspected showed up. The bonding jumper in question is the little green one on the left side






"cant have that in there. It makes this panel here a service"


----------



## aftershockews

jimmy21 said:


> heres a picture before the inspected showed up. The bonding jumper in question is the little green one on the left side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "cant have that in there. It makes this panel here a service"


When he left did you put the bonding jumper back?


----------



## Speedy Petey

jimmy21 said:


> heres a picture before the inspected showed up. The bonding jumper in question is the little green one on the left side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "cant have that in there. It makes this panel here a service"


Did you even try to explain it to him. It's pretty damn obvious to me that those bars are separate. 
I would have taken out my own screw driver and put it back right in front of him. Or told him off the bat: _"Do NOT touch my sh*t!"_


----------



## jimmy21

aftershockews said:


> When he left did you put the bonding jumper back?


Yes. 

The bad part is, he must go around the city removing ever bonding jumper he sees. "You can't bond this light switch box. It makes it a service!" How does someone get that job without understanding basic concepts? An in inspector that doesn't understand why you remove the neutral bonding jumper (other than because its what you do) is scary to me


----------



## macmikeman

You should send him to the Tradeworks Forum so he can learn about wiring.


----------



## jimmy21

I can't decide If I should call and complain about him. On one hand, I am not a busy body and HATE people that won't mind their own business. On the other hand, the man is obviously not qualified to be in his position


----------



## Big Pickles

Should have told him to hang onto the panel as you energized it.


----------



## erics37

Was this one of the PDX inspectors? I've heard lots of hit and miss things about that crew of champions.

Anyway, 408.40. I know it says Panelboards but I don't think the NEC differentiates between panelboards and loadcenters.


----------



## jimmy21

Ya eric. A Washington county inspector


----------



## erics37

jimmy21 said:


> I can't decide If I should call and complain about him. On one hand, I am not a busy body and HATE people that won't mind their own business. On the other hand, the man is obviously not qualified to be in his position


We have a new inspector around here and for the most part he is pretty receptive to polite debate on Code stuff, but there are a few things he is really anal (and incorrect) on. I've emailed him a few documents and such that back up my position on some things, and that has seemed to work with him.

If you tactfully back up your assertions with evidence he may be cool about it. On the other hand he could be a stubborn jackass with low self-esteem and get all butt hurt that you dared defy him. Hard to say.


----------



## erics37

jimmy21 said:


> Ya eric. A Washington county inspector


Anyway, how you doing?? Busy up there?


----------



## Big John

I'd write them about it. 

Maybe he just had a 'tarded moment, or else maybe he's really going around creating a bunch of unbonded panel enclosures. Besides which, it's also really poor form for him to modify _anything_, and I'd bet that could get their inspection department in a mess of legal trouble.


----------



## erics37

Big John said:


> I'd write them about it.
> 
> Maybe he just had a 'tarded moment, or else maybe he's really going around creating a bunch of unbonded panel enclosures. Besides which, it's also really poor form for him to modify _anything_, and I'd bet that could get their inspection department in a mess of legal trouble.


It's definitely an issue but I'd wager that the majority of panels have enough bare copper EGCs smooshed against the panel can that it is adequately bonded that way :thumbup:


----------



## macmikeman

I would have put the green screw back in my panel and then headed down to Teddy's Bigger Burgers for some lunch.


----------



## erics37

Anyway I wonder if this guy also goes around to every 4-square box and removes the ground pigtail. "Can't bond that switch box, that'd make it a service." :laughing:


----------



## macmikeman

The real truth is Jimmy, you should have installed the Eaton loadcenter and paid extra for the ground bar that screw bolts onto the can. Then that ''inspector'' would not have been so confused. It's all your fault. :thumbsup:


----------



## Roger

Big John said:


> I'd write them about it.


Same here and I would also call the chief inspector explaining that I am not trying to get anyone in trouble but this inspectors misunderstanding of the NEC and theory could get someone hurt or killed. 

Roger


----------



## jimmy21

erics37 said:


> Anyway, how you doing?? Busy up there?


Really well, its slowed down up here a little but thats alrite because I bought a fixer upper house (in an ideal location with a great oversized lot) and I have a gigantic list of projects to do. Damn near all of 2014 was a walk through with tons of overtime. 2015 is supposed to be even crazier


----------



## Big John

erics37 said:


> It's definitely an issue but I'd wager that the majority of panels have enough bare copper EGCs smooshed against the panel can that it is adequately bonded that way :thumbup:


 No argument. But it's like Roger said, that's obviously a guy who misunderstands an extremely fundamental part of his job. It's not about being a jerk, it's about correcting a problem.


----------



## jimmy21

Big John said:


> I'd write them about it.
> 
> Maybe he just had a 'tarded moment, or else maybe he's really going around creating a bunch of unbonded panel enclosures. Besides which, it's also really poor form for him to modify _anything_, and I'd bet that could get their inspection department in a mess of legal trouble.


I thought that at first. "You do realize that that is my ground bar and the neutral is over here and they are already separate and all that jumper does is bond the metal enclosure?" Then he says "yup but you can't have this jumper here, this is a sub panel. You do know what a sub panel is, right?"

At that point I knew he didn't understand what's going on and is un qualified and I'll just put it back when he leaves


He said a bunch of other things that made me think he's an idiot. He made sure to point out that he likes that my can lights were made up inside the junction boxes for the can lights.


----------



## theJcK

shouldve asked if he needed his eyes checked. and its a fancy can with an isolated ground bar. shame on you both. haha. ::jester::


----------



## sbrn33

OK,now on to the real question.

Why would you put a cheap 20 space panel in your own home?

I wouldn't put that panel in my worst enemies house. Then get rid of the mouse ears.


----------



## macmikeman

And since this is a sub panel, why the main breaker?


----------



## sbrn33

macmikeman said:


> And since this is a sub panel, why the main breaker?


Cheaper and HD has them


----------



## jimmy21

sbrn33 said:


> OK,now on to the real question.
> 
> Why would you put a cheap 20 space panel in your own home?
> 
> I wouldn't put that panel in my worst enemies house. Then get rid of the mouse ears.


Because I'm an idiot. I already want to change it out


----------



## erics37

jimmy21 said:


> Really well, its slowed down up here a little but thats alrite because I bought a fixer upper house (in an ideal location with a great oversized lot) and I have a gigantic list of projects to do. Damn near all of 2014 was a walk through with tons of overtime. 2015 is supposed to be even crazier


Right on, congrats.

I've been busy as f*ck. Working a good chunk of OT (which is getting old) and teaching class and being the new training director. Also studying for the Supervisor test.

I'm ready for steak and blowjob day to hurry up and get here.


----------



## gnuuser

yep he was wrong to remove it.
i can see by the pic that the neutral bond is removed but the ground bus needs to be bonded to the box
there was nothing wrong with your installation other than the zip tied hot and neutrals


----------



## jimmy21

erics37 said:


> Right on, congrats.
> 
> I've been busy as f*ck. Working a good chunk of OT (which is getting old) and teaching class and being the new training director. Also studying for the Supervisor test.
> 
> I'm ready for steak and blowjob day to hurry up and get here.


Did Judy quit?


----------



## Barjack

I was tagged once for this exact reason.

During a remodel, we installed a meter/main outside, and converted the inside main to a sub. I removed the connection between the two bars, left one bonded with the strap for the EGC, and the other floating for the neutral.

The inspector said that doing this violates the listing of the panel, and in his opinion, compromised the structural integrity of the floating neutral bars.

I was in no position to argue the point, and ended up installing ground bars, and replaced the strap.

I did later look at the instructions, and it does say that in non service situations, that ground bars must be used.


----------



## sbrn33

erics37 said:


> Right on, congrats.
> 
> I've been busy as f*ck. Working a good chunk of OT (which is getting old) and teaching class and being the new training director. Also studying for the Supervisor test.
> 
> I'm ready for steak and blowjob day to hurry up and get here.


Time to knock horns with Stevie.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Roger said:


> Same here and I would also call the chief inspector explaining that I am not trying to get anyone in trouble but this inspectors misunderstanding of the NEC and theory could get someone hurt or killed.
> 
> Roger


I would definitely do this also but only after I talked with the inspector and got no acknowledgement that he was incorrect. Ask him how the can is bonding when the screw is removed. All metal parts must be bonded.


----------



## wildleg

when the inspector comes back for final, ask him if you can take his picture so you can post it on electricantalk.com for an award thread. when he asks what the award is (hopefully after you've taken the pic), tell it's for the wall of shame. that'd be cool.


----------



## 480sparky

wildleg said:


> Before the inspector comes back for final, remove the bonding jumper. When he gets to the panel, have it open with a spare breaker in it and a 12' piece of #12 terminated on it.
> 
> Turn the breaker on, and touch the bare end of the wire to the panel tub. Ask, "I don't understand why this breaker won't trip when I touch the can. I would think it should, otherwise the can is energized and someone could get electrocuted. Isn't that the purpose of grounding and bonding, to get the breaker to open the circuit in case of a fault to help prevent getting killed?".


Fify.


----------



## RIVETER

jimmy21 said:


> I haven't done residential work since my apprenticeship, but I'm working on my own house. I did a service change, installed a meter main outside and a large sub panel inside. I made sure my ground and neutral were totally separate. The inspector came and I didn't mention I was an electrician, but if he couldn't tell from my installation, he's an idiot, because I really took my time. He looked in the sub panel and and sees the bonding jumper that bonds the metal enclosure to the ground. Thinking that Im a homeowner he starts explaining that I can't have that jumper in there because "it makes this a service and this is a sub panel." I respond, "my grounds and nuetrals are separate, that jumper just bonds the metal can." He says "right and you can only do that in a service and this is a sub panel, do you know the difference?" Then he pulled out a screwdriver and removed it. I was in complete shock that an inspector doesn't know the difference between bonding a piece of metal and bonding a neutral. The worst part is that I live in a large city. He is not a jack of all trades inspector, he's one of several dedicated electrical inspectors


No need for the jumper.


----------



## Sparky J

RIVETER said:


> No need for the jumper.


Why, they're floating, it's needed.


----------



## RIVETER

Sparky J said:


> Why, they're floating, it's needed.


Please explain.


----------



## 480sparky

RIVETER said:


> Please explain.



Remove the jumper, and the can is not bonded as required.


----------



## RIVETER

480sparky said:


> Remove the jumper, and the can is not bonded as required.


If he uses an approved 'CAN", he only needs to run a #6 copper wire from the main "CAN", for it to be safe. The new sub panel should already be screwed to the "CAN".


----------



## Sparky J

That eaton panel has its common bars on plastic isolators with a removable bonding strap that ties the left to the right bar. Then the left bar has an additional smaller strap that ties it to the can. Both are removable depending on the useage of the panel.


----------



## RIVETER

Sparky J said:


> That eaton panel has its common bars on plastic isolators with a removable bonding strap that ties the left to the right bar. Then the left bar has an additional smaller strap that ties it to the can. Both are removable depending on the useage of the panel.


What other usage could it be? The equipment grounding buss is bolted to the panel.


----------



## macmikeman

RIVETER said:


> What other usage could it be? The equipment grounding buss is bolted to the panel.


Not included in most Eaton load center packages, the ground bar has to be purchased separately from the panel. Some contractor packs and 3r loadcenters from Eaton include a ground bus but only a few of the offerings.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

RIVETER said:


> No need for the jumper.



as usual, you're wrong. 






Sparky J said:


> Why, they're floating, it's needed.





Yep. Absolutely. 




RIVETER said:


> Please explain.



Please look at picture






480sparky said:


> Remove the jumper, and the can is not bonded as required.





amen




Sparky J said:


> That eaton panel has its common bars on plastic isolators with a removable bonding strap that ties the left to the right bar. Then the left bar has an additional smaller strap that ties it to the can. Both are removable depending on the useage of the panel.


Please excuse him. He's been doing nothing in an industrial plant for 30 years. He only ACTS like a contactor








RIVETER said:


> What other usage could it be? The equipment grounding buss is bolted to the panel.



Again, please look






macmikeman said:


> Not included in most Eaton load center packages, the ground bar has to be purchased separately from the panel. Some contractor packs and 3r loadcenters from Eaton include a ground bus but only a few of the offerings.


Preaching to the choir dude.


----------



## RIVETER

mcclary's electrical said:


> as usual, you're wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Absolutely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please look at picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please excuse him. He's been doing nothing in an industrial plant for 30 years. He only ACTS like a contactor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, please look
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Preaching to the choir dude.


Tough crowd.


----------



## Black Dog

jimmy21 said:


> heres a picture before the inspected showed up. The bonding jumper in question is the little green one on the left side
> 
> 
> Attached Thumbnails
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "cant have that in there. It makes this panel here a service"


:laughing:

You threw a rising curve ball right in the inspectors nuts...:laughing:

Those panels are nice, in a Murray the ground bar sits right on the can and the screws bond the bar right to the panel.

Those Eaton panels are great now that we need Afci breakers .


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

RIVETER said:


> Tough crowd.


You know I love you


----------



## RIVETER

Black Dog said:


> :laughing:
> 
> You threw a rising curve ball right in the inspectors nuts...:laughing:
> 
> Those panels are nice, in a Murray the ground bar sits right on the can and the screws bond the bar right to the panel.
> 
> Those Eaton panels are great now that we need Afci breakers .


Do you have a clue why Eaton would sell a panel like that for a SUB? A sub is what it is...downstream from the main source of voltage. I see no need for an isolated GROUNDING system...and I'm not talking about isolating it from the neutral.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

RIVETER said:


> Do you have a clue why Eaton would sell a panel like that for a SUB? A sub is what it is...downstream from the main source of voltage. I see no need for an isolated GROUNDING system...and I'm not talking about isolating it from the neutral.


The isolators COULD have been removed. However, what the op did is just fine.


----------



## Black Dog

RIVETER said:


> Do you have a clue why Eaton would sell a panel like that for a SUB? A sub is what it is...downstream from the main source of voltage. I see no need for an isolated GROUNDING system...and I'm not talking about isolating it from the neutral.


All the panels are the same and can be used as either with the proper guts in it.

Eaton gives you the isolated bars on both sides because each neutral needs a single space.

But if you want to use one side for all of your EGC's then just use the Bond setup that comes with the panel.


----------



## RIVETER

Black Dog said:


> All the panels are the same and can be used as either with the proper guts in it.
> 
> Eaton gives you the isolated bars on both sides because each neutral needs a single space.
> 
> But if you want to use one side for all of your EGC's then just use the Bond setup that comes with the panel.


I can't possibly know it all...just ask my wife. But, why would they give a panel with possibly two neutral busses and not a one ground/egc buss?


----------



## 480sparky

RIVETER said:


> I can't possibly know it all...just ask my wife. But, why would they give a panel with possibly two neutral busses and not a one ground/egc buss?


So they can sell you a ground bar for more money.


----------



## RIVETER

480sparky said:


> So they can sell you a ground bar for more money.


I'll give you that possibility but I don't believe that they would risk the liability.


----------



## btharmy

RIVETER wrote:
"I can't possibly know it all...just ask my wife. But, why would they give a panel with possibly two neutral busses and not a one ground/egc buss?"


For versatility. It can be used as a main or sub panel. As a sub you can buy some ground bars and screw them to the tub for the EGC. Then you can use the two existing isolated bars as neutral bars, one on each side. Or, use it as a main panel and bond the two isolated bars to the panel to land neutrals and EGC on each side. Or, do what the OP did for his sub and remove the tie bar between them, bond one to the tub for the EGC and leave the other isolated for the neutrals. You just need to know what you're doing when you do it.


----------



## btharmy

RIVETER said:


> I'll give you that possibility but I don't believe that they would risk the liability.


 How is there any liability? If you don't know how to install a lousy ground bar, maybe you shouldn't be installing the panel in the first place.

By the way. I'm using the word "you" in general. Not as if directed at you personally.


----------



## macmikeman

btharmy said:


> RIVETER wrote:
> "I can't possibly know it all...just ask my wife. But, why would they give a panel with possibly two neutral busses and not a one ground/egc buss?"
> 
> 
> For versatility. It can be used as a main or sub panel. As a sub you can buy some ground bars and screw them to the tub for the EGC. Then you can use the two existing isolated bars as neutral bars, one on each side. Or, use it as a main panel and bond the two isolated bars to the panel to land neutrals and EGC on each side. Or, do what the OP did for his sub and remove the tie bar between them, bond one to the tub for the EGC and leave the other isolated for the neutrals. You just need to know what you're doing when you do it.


Eaton doesn't list removing the tie bar , GE does..


----------



## RIVETER

btharmy said:


> How is there any liability? If you don't know how to install a lousy ground bar, maybe you shouldn't be installing the panel in the first place.
> 
> By the way. I'm using the word "you" in general. Not as if directed at you personally.


I appreciate that.


----------



## Meadow

jimmy21 said:


> heres a picture before the inspected showed up. The bonding jumper in question is the little green one on the left side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "cant have that in there. It makes this panel here a service"


That is correct. Your inspector is an idiot.


----------



## Meadow

jimmy21 said:


> Yes.
> 
> The bad part is, he must go around the city removing ever bonding jumper he sees. "You can't bond this light switch box. It makes it a service!" How does someone get that job without understanding basic concepts? An in inspector that doesn't understand why you remove the neutral bonding jumper (other than because its what you do) is scary to me


He will get someone killed. Id report him, raise hell and then some. I agree with Speedy Petey, this is basic stuff that's obvious. I might bring up the double tapped neutral holes, but he is just wrong.


----------



## Meadow

jimmy21 said:


> I can't decide If I should call and complain about him. On one hand, I am not a busy body and HATE people that won't mind their own business. On the other hand, the man is obviously not qualified to be in his position


Reporting him will save a few lives. You are doing your country a favor. He will keep enforcing his incompetence. Other electricians who are borderline will think he is correct and follow like that on every job. Suddenly loss of life or property happens. Then everyone asks how it happened, why no one brought it up. 

I see to many code violations to sit still on stuff like this.


----------



## RIVETER

jimmy21 said:


> I haven't done residential work since my apprenticeship, but I'm working on my own house. I did a service change, installed a meter main outside and a large sub panel inside. I made sure my ground and neutral were totally separate. The inspector came and I didn't mention I was an electrician, but if he couldn't tell from my installation, he's an idiot, because I really took my time. He looked in the sub panel and and sees the bonding jumper that bonds the metal enclosure to the ground. Thinking that Im a homeowner he starts explaining that I can't have that jumper in there because "it makes this a service and this is a sub panel." I respond, "my grounds and nuetrals are separate, that jumper just bonds the metal can." He says "right and you can only do that in a service and this is a sub panel, do you know the difference?" Then he pulled out a screwdriver and removed it. I was in complete shock that an inspector doesn't know the difference between bonding a piece of metal and bonding a neutral. The worst part is that I live in a large city. He is not a jack of all trades inspector, he's one of several dedicated electrical inspectors


You are "bull****ting" a bull****ter. No inspector will work in a panel that he is inspecting.


----------



## Bootss

jimmy21 said:


> I can't decide If I should call and complain about him. On one hand, I am not a busy body and HATE people that won't mind their own business. On the other hand, the man is obviously not qualified to be in his position


well if you do file a complaint do it anonymously


----------



## 51360

RIVETER said:


> You are "bull****ting" a bull****ter. No inspector will work in a panel that he is inspecting.


I agree! I am finding it difficult to pick up what the op is putting down! 

:laughing:


----------



## hardworkingstiff

I would have failed that for 2 neutrals under one screw on the neutral bar.


----------



## Southeast Power

jimmy21 said:


> heres a picture before the inspected showed up. The bonding jumper in question is the little green one on the left side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "cant have that in there. It makes this panel here a service"


Maybe the curly que feeders and the tywraps made him suspect something was up.
Did you mention to him that you had removed the bar and that the panel was listed for that type of configuration?


----------



## Southeast Power

hardworkingstiff said:


> I would have failed that for 2 neutrals under one screw on the neutral bar.


Most loadcenters are made for that.


----------



## Southeast Power

macmikeman said:


> Not included in most Eaton load center packages, the ground bar has to be purchased separately from the panel. Some contractor packs and 3r loadcenters from Eaton include a ground bus but only a few of the offerings.


Mac,
I have noticed that the copper bus loadcenters come with a ground bar.


----------



## btharmy

jrannis said:


> Most loadcenters are made for that.


I thought it was grounds only, not neutrals?


----------



## Dennis Alwon

RIVETER said:


> You are "bull****ting" a bull****ter. No inspector will work in a panel that he is inspecting.


 I have seen many inspectors open panels. That quote does not state the panel was energized either


----------



## Going_Commando

jrannis said:


> Most loadcenters are made for that.


No they aren't. Many are listed for 2-3 egcs, but not neutrals. Do you even code book bro?

"*408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations*. Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor."


----------



## Going_Commando

Borgi said:


> I agree! I am finding it difficult to pick up what the op is putting down!
> 
> :laughing:


Yes, it makes perfect sense for the OP to lie about an inspector carrying a screwdriver and trying to help a homeowner do things right, even though the inspector is wrong. An inspector would NEVER touch electrical equipment.  Puh-lease.


----------



## hardworkingstiff

Someone beat me to it and I didn't see that until after I posted.


----------



## Southeast Power

Going_Commando said:


> No they aren't. Many are listed for 2-3 egcs, but not neutrals. Do you even code book bro?
> 
> "*408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations*. Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor."


Oops, grounds yes, grounded, no.
I think the logic is that someone would loosen the terminal screw and increase the chance for an over voltage situation if it was part of a MWBC.


----------



## Going_Commando

jrannis said:


> Oops, grounds yes, grounded, no.
> I think the logic is that someone would loosen the terminal screw and increase the chance for an over voltage situation if it was part of a MWBC.


Thats my best guess as for rationale too.


----------



## Going_Commando

Dennis Alwon said:


> I have seen many inspectors open panels. That quote does not state the panel was energized either


Yup. Its a lot less exciting than calling the OP a liar though.


----------



## erics37

jimmy21 said:


> Did Judy quit?


Yeah. She submitted her resignation in July or something. The Committee asked me if I was interested in the position and I said, "No but do I have a choice?" and they said no so I took over. It sucks balls.



RIVETER said:


> You are "bull****ting" a bull****ter. No inspector will work in a panel that he is inspecting.


I've seen plenty of inspectors go and mess around with sh!t.


----------



## RIVETER

erics37 said:


> Yeah. She submitted her resignation in July or something. The Committee asked me if I was interested in the position and I said, "No but do I have a choice?" and they said no so I took over. It sucks balls.
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen plenty of inspectors go and f*ck around with sh!t.


You're hanging with the wrong crowd.


----------



## jimmy21

We live in a world where people will sucker punch old people for fun 
http://www.examiner.com/article/sen...ckout-game-where-teens-kill-older-pedestrians

id love to be so ignorant to the world that you can't even fathom the authority having jurisdiction trying to help someone out, because its not in his job description.


----------



## FaultCurrent

Really, was the inspector a real electrical inspector, or a combined inspector? He should know better if he was a specialty electrical inspector, but the usual combined inspector is usually a broke down carpenter or GC and knows only what he was told regarding electrical. Either way he was trying to be helpful and should be informed politely of the error of his ways.

Those Siemens panels with neutrals on both sides make it easier to make up for the Romex contractor. Plus Siemens gets to charge you extra for a ground bar. 

Some inspectors get in a tizzy over removing the factory neutral tie bar and using one as a ground bar saying the panel is not listed for this use. I guess some argument could be made that you have to use the Siemens ground bar kit. But this seems a little silly. 
How will the electrons know what the listing of the bar is as they flow merrily along their way?


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

FaultCurrent said:


> Really, was the inspector a real electrical inspector, or a combined inspector? He should know better if he was a specialty electrical inspector, but the usual combined inspector is usually a broke down carpenter or GC and knows only what he was told regarding electrical. Either way he was trying to be helpful and should be informed politely of the error of his ways.
> 
> Those Siemens panels with neutrals on both sides make it easier to make up for the Romex contractor. Plus Siemens gets to charge you extra for a ground bar.
> 
> Some inspectors get in a tizzy over removing the factory neutral tie bar and using one as a ground bar saying the panel is not listed for this use. I guess some argument could be made that you have to use the Siemens ground bar kit. But this seems a little silly.
> How will the electrons know what the listing of the bar is as they flow merrily along their way?


The isolators can be removed also, leaving no need for a jumper.


----------



## aftershockews

We have a once detached garage. It had a 50 amp sub panel fed from the panel on the side of the house.
Not less than a year after we moved in, a local inspector came by and removed the 50 amp breaker supplying the load for this garage and told us a permit was never pulled.
This was back in the day when I was just a material handler in a warehouse.

I had a buddy drop by and install another breaker so as to fire up the panel in the garage.:thumbup:


----------



## RIVETER

aftershockews said:


> We have a once detached garage. It had a 50 amp sub panel fed from the panel on the side of the house.
> Not less than a year after we moved in, a local inspector came by and removed the 50 amp breaker supplying the load for this garage and told us a permit was never pulled.
> This was back in the day when I was just a material handler in a warehouse.
> 
> I had a buddy drop by and install another breaker so as to fire up the panel in the garage.:thumbup:


I suppose that weird stuff like that can happen but it would be rare. 27 years ago I moved in this house. With moving, and all, I placed about 25 to thirty garbage bags and boxes at the street for pickup. A truck came by and took it all the day before "garbage" day and the guy left a note at the door saying that I could not do that because I had not paid the dues.


----------



## hardworkingstiff

mcclary's electrical said:


> The isolators can be removed also, leaving no need for a jumper.


Listing maintained? You know the AHJs are getting tough with this listing thing.


----------



## hardworkingstiff

RIVETER said:


> A truck came by and took it all the day before "garbage" day and the guy left a note at the door saying that I could not do that because I had not paid the dues.


----------



## gnuuser

hardworkingstiff said:


>


in many municipalities in order to get large loads removed on trash day you must submit a removal fee at the local borough office (generally 25 to 30 dollars) per truck load and it doesn't matter what is being hauled away.

aside from that there is regular trash pick up service fees that must be arranged


----------



## hardworkingstiff

gnuuser said:


> in many municipalities in order to get large loads removed on trash day you must submit a removal fee at the local borough office (generally 25 to 30 dollars) per truck load and it doesn't matter what is being hauled away.
> 
> aside from that there is regular trash pick up service fees that must be arranged


OK, but they picked up his trash and told him he could not put it out to be picked up because he didn't pay a fee. You don't find that odd?


----------



## RIVETER

hardworkingstiff said:


> OK, but they picked up his trash and told him he could not put it out to be picked up because he didn't pay a fee. You don't find that odd?


Finally, someone got it.:thumbsup:


----------



## hardworkingstiff

RIVETER said:


> Finally, someone got it.:thumbsup:


:laughing: I got it as soon as I read it.


----------



## Inspector Grump

Big Pickles said:


> Should have told him to hang onto the panel as you energized it.


With his feet in water


----------



## Meadow

FaultCurrent said:


> Really, was the inspector a real electrical inspector, or a combined inspector? He should know better if he was a specialty electrical inspector, but the usual combined inspector is usually a broke down carpenter or GC and knows only what he was told regarding electrical. Either way he was trying to be helpful and should be informed politely of the error of his ways.
> 
> Those Siemens panels with neutrals on both sides make it easier to make up for the Romex contractor. Plus Siemens gets to charge you extra for a ground bar.
> 
> Some inspectors get in a tizzy over removing the factory neutral tie bar and using one as a ground bar saying the panel is not listed for this use. I guess some argument could be made that you have to use the Siemens ground bar kit. But this seems a little silly.
> How will the electrons know what the listing of the bar is as they flow merrily along their way?




If the tie bar is listed to be removed then yes, Id do it. Siemens and GE are listed for that. However BR and CH is not, and to remove the tie bar you need to remove the guts.


----------



## btharmy

meadow said:


> If the tie bar is listed to be removed then yes, Id do it. Siemens and GE are listed for that. However BR and CH is not, and to remove the tie bar you need to remove the guts.


Siemens is only listed to be removed if replaced with a plastic bar.


----------



## Meadow

btharmy said:


> Siemens is only listed to be removed if replaced with a plastic bar.


:001_huh:

Brain freeze :laughing:


----------



## amigi968

What happens when you run an electrified wire in a circle?


----------



## hardworkingstiff

amigi968 said:


> What happens when you run an electrified wire in a circle?


Electron's version of NASCAR?  :jester:


----------



## tates1882

aftershockews said:


> We have a once detached garage. It had a 50 amp sub panel fed from the panel on the side of the house.
> Not less than a year after we moved in, a local inspector came by and removed the 50 amp breaker supplying the load for this garage and told us a permit was never pulled.
> This was back in the day when I was just a material handler in a warehouse.
> 
> I had a buddy drop by and install another breaker so as to fire up the panel in the garage.:thumbup:


That inspector would have been shot for trespassing here.


----------

