# Wire nut for AL/AL wire



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

What about those alumicon connectors? They're rated AL-AL. I've often used a #14 or #12 aluminum split bolt too.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> What about those alumicon connectors? They're rated AL-AL. I've often used a #14 or #12 aluminum split bolt too.


I have to do a 5 bedroom hi-ranch with COLAR devices and the house was pigtailed back in the 80's.

All the wires are short and it is turning into a PITA to fix this mess

I will look into the alumicon and see if the AHJ will accept them.

I told HO I will not do the job without inspection


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Yeah, the alumiconn is just a little bus bar that is insulated. Each conductor goes in a hole in the bar and screws are bound down on it. FYI... the alumiconn connectors require the use of the manufacturer's torque screwdriver to use them.

BTW, if this is a ranch, can't you rewire major portions of it in copper for nearly the same price?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

House has a finished basement and vaulted ceilings on second floor

Garage was turned into family room when house was first built.

There must be close to 100 devices that need to be fixed


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> House has a finished basement and vaulted ceilings on second floor
> 
> Garage was turned into family room when house was first built.
> 
> There must be close to 100 devices that need to be fixed


Man, that sucks. Those alumiconn connectors are about 5 bucks a pop. On short wires, you can't even get the CopAlum crimper in there, so the Alumiconn connectors might be your only hope.


----------



## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

I wonder why these are not UL listed

http://www.tnb-canada.com/en/catalogues/online/comresconstruction/pdf/c5/09_marrcat_e.pdf


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricguy said:


> I wonder why these are not UL listed
> 
> http://www.tnb-canada.com/en/catalogues/online/comresconstruction/pdf/c5/09_marrcat_e.pdf


 
They are made by Thomas & Betts and are rated for AL/AL

My day just got brighter.. thanks for the link :thumbsup:

Just noticed.. NOT UL listed


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> They are made by Thomas & Betts and are rated for AL/AL
> 
> My day just got brighter.. thanks for the link :thumbsup:
> 
> Just noticed.. NOT UL listed


But they are CSA listed, so I'd use'em.


----------



## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, the alumiconn is just a little bus bar that is insulated. Each conductor goes in a hole in the bar and screws are bound down on it. FYI... the alumiconn connectors require the use of the manufacturer's torque screwdriver to use them.
> 
> BTW, if this is a ranch, can't you rewire major portions of it in copper for nearly the same price?



You can't just use any torque screwdriver? Only the manufacturers?


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> You can't just use any torque screwdriver? Only the manufacturers?


I suppose you could, but something as touchy as aluminum wiring, I'd opt for the manufacturer's screwdriver myself. It takes a screwdriver with a pretty small tip, which you might struggle to get in a 3rd party torque screwdriver.


----------



## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

Several of my torque screwdrivers use standard hex drive bits in them so finding the right tip for the Alumiconns is easy. Use the same one I use for receptacles.

Pricing is better if you can find a house that normally stocks them, although most don't keep enough stock to do a house. I usually need some lead time to get enough together.


----------



## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

electricguy said:


> I wonder why these are not UL listed
> 
> http://www.tnb-canada.com/en/catalogues/online/comresconstruction/pdf/c5/09_marrcat_e.pdf


We use these, they are CSA approved, and here in Canada thats the one that matters not UL, although generally either one is acknowledged as acceptable. 

PS, they work pretty good, but dont let starters use them, they will twist till the spice breaks off.


----------



## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

The manufacturer doesn’t require the use of any particular brand of torque screwdriver, only that a torque screwdriver be used to tighten the connector to the specified rating, for the installation to be compliant with the UL listing. 

The torque screwdriver they offer on their site is just the handle… there are no bits included with it. Whia sells a complete 51-piece set with a case and similar specs for less than the price of that handle alone. :thumbsup:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Should have saved a bag/box of wirenuts from the 70's.

Exact same product as today but rated for AL.

What changed? Everyone wanted to escape liability.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I called Ideal tech support today and they don't make a AL/AL wire nut

The Twister (purple) is only rated for AL/CU.. so the only wire nut out there is this 

http://www.tnb-canada.com/en/catalogues/online/comresconstruction/pdf/c5/09_marrcat_e.pdf


----------



## scruffy (Aug 7, 2009)

i belive the marrett brand has the AL/AL connector


----------



## RobbieN (Jun 1, 2011)

*alumiconn or copalum ONLY*

the problem I have with the marrette wire connectors is they don't address the main problem... oxydation/electrolysis between the copper and aluminum. if they are touching, and air is present, eventually there will be a problem. also, a wire nut with de-ox just isn't tight enough. The copalum crimps the wires to a point where no air can get in and alumiconn keeps them separated. we have used and like both. Tyco won't sell the crimping tool and we must rent it for three months at a time, so alumiconn is a good alternative. sometimes the Copalum crimper is too big to get to the point of splice.


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

scruffy said:


> i belive the marrett brand has the AL/AL connector


 Marrette is a trade name of the MARR company.


----------



## RobbieN (Jun 1, 2011)

I think it's still only a wirenut with an al/cu spring


----------



## RobbieN (Jun 1, 2011)

This site has a lot of useful info, esp regarding aluminum wiring

http://inspectapedia.com/aluminum/AluminumOther.htm


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Alumiconn's*

I just did 400 devices. I bought 2000 wholesale for $ 2.40 per 

As long as you torque it correctly and don't bend around the old aluminum while your doing it this is a great method and is approved by cps as next best to copalum.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

The Crimper, best results.


----------



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> I called Ideal tech support today and they don't make a AL/AL wire nut
> 
> The Twister (purple) is only rated for AL/CU...


SO?? Stick a copper pigtail in it, and then cap it off if you don't need to use it. Now you are in compliance!!


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> SO?? Stick a copper pigtail in it, and then cap it off if you don't need to use it. Now you are in compliance!!


Best advice so far.

Or you could just use regular pigtails and fill the nuts with nolox, which as we all know, is the same thing as those purple things.
:whistling2:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

So B4T the hack, how did this job go, seeing this thread was started in 2009?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> So B4T the hack, how did this job go, seeing this thread was started in 2009?


It went just fine and I put all AFCI breakers in the panel.. CYA at its best..:thumbsup:

When I started to take receptacles out.. I came across this wiring "method"..

Anyone who knows WTF they are doing installing receptacles knows you keep all the conductors the same length..

It is much easier and faster when it is a "unit".. not like this moron..

He has the blacks and whites twice as long as the ground.. :blink::blink:


----------



## RobbieN (Jun 1, 2011)

I am simply stating that the copalum method and alumiconn are the best methods and only methods my company will use. the others may be "acceptable" to your local jurisdictions, but it doesn't mean they are safe over the long run. as far as co/alr devices... NEVER!! I can't tell you how many of these "acceptable" devices we've pulled out with a smoke ring around the plate or worse as I'm sure all of you have. there's just too much evidence against using the "wirenut full of goop" method as well. I've gone back and re-repaired several of these that were done 5-10 yrs prior. personally, i am looking for the safest fix out there. Not something that will last through the warranty period.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

RobbieN said:


> I am simply stating that the copalum method and alumiconn are the best methods and only methods my company will use. the others may be "acceptable" to your local jurisdictions, but it doesn't mean they are safe over the long run. as far as co/alr devices... NEVER!! I can't tell you how many of these "acceptable" devices we've pulled out with a smoke ring around the plate or worse as I'm sure all of you have. there's just too much evidence against using the "wirenut full of goop" method as well. I've gone back and re-repaired several of these that were done 5-10 yrs prior. personally, i am looking for the safest fix out there. Not something that will last through the warranty period.


The site you posted earlier is one of the most biased on the internet and your entire paragraph above is nothing more than your personal opinion.

Now of course you are entitled to your opinion but it is wrong to present an opinion as fact.


----------



## RobbieN (Jun 1, 2011)

it's not opinion. it's what I've seen (burned wirenuts with de-ox and burned co/alr devices) and a bit of science. Aluminum and copper don't like each other when air is present. and yes, I would agree that the site is biased against unsafe practices.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

RobbieN said:


> I am simply stating that the copalum method and alumiconn are the best methods and only methods my company will use. the others may be "acceptable" to your local jurisdictions, but it doesn't mean they are safe over the long run. as far as co/alr devices... NEVER!! I can't tell you how many of these "acceptable" devices we've pulled out with a smoke ring around the plate or worse as I'm sure all of you have. there's just too much evidence against using the "wirenut full of goop" method as well. I've gone back and re-repaired several of these that were done 5-10 yrs prior. personally, i am looking for the safest fix out there. Not something that will last through the warranty period.


I personally have never seen a problem with the purple wire nuts or the 80's fix of regular wire nuts filled with the "goop" you talk about..

Like any other product we come across in our trade.. it is only as good as the person installing it..

Some guys twist the hell out of the connection and it looks like a coil spring.. 

Other guys give the wire nut two twists of the wrist and jam it into the box..


----------



## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

RobbieN said:


> I would agree that the site is biased against unsafe practices.


It's a Copalum spam site.

Every once in awhile Copalum has people spam for their product on this site as well. You can usually tell them from their low post count, and responses to years old threads. :whistling2:


----------



## RobbieN (Jun 1, 2011)

Mark, There is as much info about alumiconn as copalum..... doubt copalum would promote the competion. 
B4T, I agree, wholeheartedly. copalum and alumicon take some of the possibility of user error out of the equation. we can't stand over our electricians and apprentices and make sure every joint is perfectly tight and every exposed surface is covered with de-ox before installation.


----------



## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

They must have put the Alumiconn stuff on there fairly recently. I stand corrected.


----------

