# adding a bathroom outlet ??



## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

Is there an issue or code ref. to adding an outlet to a bathroom separate to the existing outlet (has a GFI in it).Customer wants to add another outlet above bath vanity between the two sinks . the existing GFI outlet is mounted on side wall of vanity. And does the add outlet have to be supplied by a 20 amp branch ck? Can it be tapped from anything available and just have a GFI device installed in it?:blink:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

In my opinion if you add a new bathroom receptacle then it must be a 20 amp circuit that is separate from other switches, recep. etc unless it is another bathroom recep.

on the chance that the existing circuit in the bathroom is dedicate to the bathroom and is 20 amp already then you may add an outlet from it.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> In my opinion if you add a new bathroom receptacle then it must be a 20 amp circuit that is separate from other switches, recep. etc unless it is another bathroom recep.
> 
> on the chance that the existing circuit in the bathroom is dedicate to the bathroom and is 20 amp already then you may add an outlet from it.


 
The house is 50 something yrs old and has been greatly renovated probable just before the new owners (my customer ) recently bought it.
They have a escrow clause to satisfy the Home inspection deficiencies.
And are allowed some graces. I haven't done a lot of res'y work here in NC
but seem to see a free for all on installs I been coming across.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

acmax said:


> The house is 50 something yrs old and has been greatly renovated probable just before the new owners (my customer ) recently bought it.
> They have a escrow clause to satisfy the Home inspection deficiencies.
> And are allowed some graces. I haven't done a lot of res'y work here in NC
> but seem to see a free for all on installs I been coming across.


Well like everywhere else it depends on where you are. Certain inspectors will give more grace then others while others go by the book. I threw the book at you. 

Where are you in NC


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Well like everywhere else it depends on where you are. Certain inspectors will give more grace then others while others go by the book. I threw the book at you.
> 
> Where are you in NC


 
Greensboro, jobs in Winston Salem. Since things are so slow around here I do whatever comes up. And even then I 've been low balled repetitively. What sec of code states that added outlet has to be 20a ,and I can't access the existing GFI feed from bottom and tile on the wall.Is there a problem adding from a 15a ck .


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

acmax said:


> What sec of code states that added outlet has to be 20a ,and I can't access the existing GFI feed from bottom and tile on the wall.Is there a problem adding from a 15a ck .


Look at art. 210.11(C)(3)



> Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
> Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).
> FPN: See Examples D1(a), D1(b), D2(b), and D4(a) in Annex D.


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## vinster888 (May 3, 2009)

210.52 (D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle
outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft)
of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet
shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the
basin or basin countertop, or installed on the side or face of
the basin cabinet not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the
countertop.

for example one in between two sinks :wink:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

WTF if you have the code required 20 amp circut (which can be shared by many baths if you so wish) I dont see why you couldnt add a 15 amper if you wanted to. Not that I would ever install a 15 amper but you get the point. 
Take for instance those fancy butt warmer toilets, as long as you have your required 20 I cant see any reason why you couldnt install a 15 amp gfci protected duplex for the toilet. As long as the extra circut is gfci you all goood. I chalenge anyone to prove me wrong. And not just you opinion but show me with code.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I agree with you Kirk, as long as it's protected by GFCI it can be from any branch circuit. 

ACMAX, if I were you and this receptacle was going near and/ or around where a hair dryer or curling iron might be used it would be wise to install 20 amp dedicated circuit. Explain to the customer why it's wise to do this and the benefits of dedicated circuit versus picking off an existing circuit.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I would say that once the requirement of 210.11(C)(3) is met, then anything goes after that. If it was nearly impossible to get the new receptacle on the existing 20 A circuit, and I could grab power from a recept on the other side of the wall, I might consider it.


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## 1991 Storm Trooper (Apr 7, 2009)

captkirk said:


> WTF if you have the code required 20 amp circut (which can be shared by many baths if you so wish) I dont see why you couldnt add a 15 amper if you wanted to. Not that I would ever install a 15 amper but you get the point.
> Take for instance those fancy butt warmer toilets, as long as you have your required 20 I cant see any reason why you couldnt install a 15 amp gfci protected duplex for the toilet. As long as the extra circut is gfci you all goood. I chalenge anyone to prove me wrong. And not just you opinion but show me with code.


Your 100% currect with that kirk. 

Had a customer that wanted a quad box right next to the pooper. 1 night light and 1 outet. I really didn't want to now what she needed the outlet for. Get my drift.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

1991 Storm Trooper said:


> Your 100% currect with that kirk.
> 
> Had a customer that wanted a quad box right next to the pooper. 1 night light and 1 outet. I really didn't want to now what she needed the outlet for. Get my drift.


 LMFAO nice one. Your a dirty dirty man arent you LOL. I think the plug in jobbies are from a by gone era though. I think everything now is battery powered.


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## 1991 Storm Trooper (Apr 7, 2009)

Ahhh... Maybe she need to recharge her batteries. :whistling2:

Sh#t!!! My batteries are dead. Not a problem,, I have some recharged ones right over here...

Seriously. Why do ya need a outlet right next to the pooper!!!! It's almost like putting a outlet behind a door just because the wall is 2' long. It will never get used.:blink:

If they got the money, I really don't care. I can do what ever they want as long as the check doesn't bounce. If they got the money,,, I got the time..


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

captkirk said:


> as long as you have your required 20 I cant see any reason why you couldnt install a 15 amp gfci protected duplex for the toilet. As long as the extra circut is gfci you all goood. I chalenge anyone to prove me wrong. And not just you opinion but show me with code.


The house is 50 years old so I seriously doubt the recep. on the vanity meets the 20 amp requirement with no other outlets etc. Plus this is not a butt warmer but a vanity recep. that is being installed.

Perhaps the wording does not specifically state all outlets must be 20 amp but with your thinking then I could add one 20 amp recep. at the vanity that is a designated circuit and on the other end of the vanity that is a 15 amp circuit. I would like to see how many AHJ's would allow that install.

I would not recommend trying that.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The house is 50 years old so I seriously doubt the recep. on the vanity meets the 20 amp requirement with no other outlets etc. Plus this is not a butt warmer but a vanity recep. that is being installed.
> 
> Perhaps the wording does not specifically state all outlets must be 20 amp but with your thinking then I could add one 20 amp recep. at the vanity that is a designated circuit and on the other end of the vanity that is a 15 amp circuit. I would like to see how many AHJ's would allow that install.
> 
> I would not recommend trying that.


I agree that it's not the best idea in the world, but I'd like to see how many AHJs could point out where in the Code it is expressly forbidden. They can't make up code on the spot.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I agree. If you have at least your one 20 amp bathroom receptacle on a bathroom circuit, the way I read things is that you can pick up additional receptacles off whatever circuit you want. Functionally, I'm not sure how that will work out for the occupant. They won't necessarily know which one is the "bathroom circuit" and which one is on with other stuff. You know good and well that they're going to plug their hairdryer into the receptalce that you installed off the other nearby circuit; probably the one that does a couple window air conditioners too.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I agree. As long as the bathroom is served by a dedicated 20 amp branch circuit, I doubt it matters how you power any other outlets. I always run the bathroom lighting separate from the receptacle circuit, but I also never put more than one bathroom on a 20 amp branch circuit.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Why would one need a 20A GFI unless the tub jets are fed off it?
Biggest load off a plug would be a blow drier @ 1500W


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

A couple of curling irons and a blow dryer; curling irons never turned off, easy 29 amps. Heck, I didn't write the code, I just run wire.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

All valid positions. I really dislike the slam it in and good luck attitude ,but customer wants the outlet.I looked at code and was pretty sure that after 
the first required 20a ck anything goes. Customer wants total of three outlets added,island in kitchen and out on deck for motorised awning.Been a few yrs since doing res'y work forgot all the fun.This all came to question because her panel is maxed out, so adding dedicated ck was not happening Thanks:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Add me to the "As long as there's at least one receptacle on a dedicated 20a circuit, you can put another one in on another circuit" camp.

The way I read 210.11(C)(3)



> (3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.


It says I must supply *at least* the 20a circuit. Anything I do above and beyond that is strictly a design. I can supply two 20a circuits, or 5, or 500 if I want to.

It doesn't say ALL receps must be on 20a bath circuits. So once 210.11(C)(3) is met, there's nothing that says I can't bring in a 15a circuit as well.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Add me to the "As long as there's at least one receptacle on a dedicated 20a circuit, you can put another one in on another circuit" camp.
> 
> The way I read 210.11(C)(3)
> 
> ...


yep... I bet we'll see the day TWO 20 amp circuits are wanted in bathrooms.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

waco said:


> yep... I bet we'll see the day TWO 20 amp circuits are wanted in bathrooms.


More than likely, the requirement will be specifically that all receps in baths are to be on the bath circuit.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

acmax said:


> All valid positions. I really dislike the slam it in and good luck attitude ,but customer wants the outlet.I looked at code and was pretty sure that after
> the first required 20a ck anything goes. Customer wants total of three outlets added,island in kitchen and out on deck for motorised awning.Been a few yrs since doing res'y work forgot all the fun.This all came to question because her panel is maxed out, so adding dedicated ck was not happening Thanks:thumbsup:



If that was the case around here an updated service would be going in.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

waco said:


> yep... I bet we'll see the day TWO 20 amp circuits are wanted in bathrooms.



I've done that already. A his and hers so to speak dedicated 20 amp circuits for each. It was pretty big master bath.


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