# Call the power company...



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I upgraded a service not too long ago and used an LB to go around a corner on a house. I don't think it was the first time either. No one from the poco said a word about the LB.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

around my area I wouldn't do anything without talking to the poco, cause they mostly don't like that. If they do let you get away with it, they make you put a drilled stud so they can put tags on it (so they can spot unauthorized entry). Isn't there a poco engineer you can just call to get the answer you need ?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Could you locate the meter on the brick and then just go up to a weatherhead either straight or with a slight kick? I hope I'm not missing something.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Could you locate the meter on the brick and then just go up to a weatherhead either straight or with a slight kick? I hope I'm not missing something.


Good idea.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Could you locate the meter on the brick and then just go up to a weatherhead either straight or with a slight kick? I hope I'm not missing something.


 
Looks like putting it on the brick may put the service too close to the window.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

yeah put the service on the brick


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

wildleg said:


> around my area I wouldn't do anything without talking to the poco, cause they mostly don't like that. If they do let you get away with it, they make you put a drilled stud so they can put tags on it (so they can spot unauthorized entry). Isn't there a poco engineer you can just call to get the answer you need ?


That's what I was trying to do this morning. Apparently the meter man for the area I'll be working in is away until Monday. So I called the number he left on his voice mail and got someone else who wants me to fill out paper work all day before getting a simple yes or no answer on the LB. The person didn't even know what an LB was!!


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The brick is a chimney.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

the great police state of NJ


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> The brick is a chimney.


Is that a no-no?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> The brick is a chimney.


Well, to me it would not matter. Lead caulking anchors will do the trick and be nowhere near the firebox or chimney tiles. To me you would be saving about 3 hours just putting in the service.:thumbsup:


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

In our area an LB is a no-go on the line side...........overhead or underground feed.
We generally work with four power companies in the area we service (about 150 square miles). I have cell numbers to probably 25-35 of their engineers, depending on the area we are working in. Usually I can get someone on the phone in just a matter of minutes to answer my question or direct me to someone who can.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

We use LB's here all the time on line side and never an issue where someone is stealing power.

Our POCO uses "common sense" on some of these issues. :thumbsup:


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Are you required to pipe up to the head? If not I'd just use SEU and mount the meter on the chimney. You may want to PVC into the house and I'd use a hot box for that work. LB's and large conductors make a hard day.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I think service-entrance cable is garbage regardless if it's going to be a long day or not. Copper and PVC trumps SE and aluminum any day of the week.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Is an underground service out of the question ???


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I think service-entrance cable is garbage regardless if it's going to be a long day or not. Copper and PVC trumps SE and aluminum any day of the week.


To each his own. Then why don't you bend the PVC without the LB at the same angle as the cornice?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jw0445 said:


> To each his own. Then why don't you bend the PVC without the LB at the same angle as the cornice?


I've cleaned up and redone a few services lately that had bad water damage as a direct result of rain getting into the service head and down through the inside of the SE, through the meter, until it's final rusting place inside the panel, usually on the bus.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> Is that a no-no?


I'm assuming it is but the bigger problem is that the panel's in the basement and obviously going through the chimney with PVC is not an option :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Innovative said:


> In our area an LB is a no-go on the line side...........overhead or underground feed.
> We generally work with four power companies in the area we service (about 150 square miles). I have cell numbers to probably 25-35 of their engineers, depending on the area we are working in. Usually I can get someone on the phone in just a matter of minutes to answer my question or direct me to someone who can.


Unfortunately I can't get a hold of the guy for this area until Monday. We generally have 2 POCO's around here and I have a list of about 10 guys in my cell phone. I'll probably call the guy I speak with most often to see what he would require if it were in his jurisdiction. Tapping into an LB is a bit of stretch, don't you think so too?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

sparks134 said:


> Is an underground service out of the question ???


That would require trenching across a concrete block driveway and several thousands of dollars. We can certainly do it though.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

wildleg said:


> around my area I wouldn't do anything without talking to the poco, cause they mostly don't like that. If they do let you get away with it, they make you put a drilled stud so they can put tags on it (so they can spot unauthorized entry). Isn't there a poco engineer you can just call to get the answer you need ?


You would think it'd be that easy. But of course PSEG needs layers and layers of applications and down time. LOL. There probably is a guy I can call and get answers I need but I just haven't found that person yet, but I'm working on it. :thumbsup:


Here is the panel:


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I've cleaned up and redone a few services lately that had bad water damage as a direct result of rain getting into the service head and down through the inside of the SE, through the meter, until it's final rusting place inside the panel, usually on the bus.


I don't understand. Wouldn't you keep the pvc head vertical keeping water out, use pvc to the hub-bending as needed, then from the meter into the basement- bending as needed ?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I'm assuming it is but the bigger problem is that the panel's in the basement and obviously going through the chimney with PVC is not an option :laughing:


I can't see where the load side goes but that can be accomodated, as well. The brick is not the chimney...it is the veneer of the house.:thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jw0445 said:


> I don't understand. Wouldn't you keep the pvc head vertical keeping water out, use pvc to the hub-bending as needed, then from the meter into the basement- bending as needed ?


All I'm saying is that water gets into that SE all the time. I prefer not to use it and I also prefer not to use aluminum conductors. On my services I use PVC weather heads and I put duct seal in the holes between the conductors to avoid any moisture from entering the conduit. This was something I had never thought of until 480 Sparky suggested it. I also go above and beyond and install spray in foam in the conduit where it goes from the outside to the inside. This is usually done in the LB directly below the meter. This helps to eliminate condensation damage to the busbar.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I can't see where the load side goes but that can be accomodated, as well. The brick is not the chimney...it is the veneer of the house.:thumbsup:


Then I will run that thought by the town inspector to see if he approves. That would make my life a lot easier pulling those SEC's. However, I would still need to get around the brick back the wooden siding before going into the house and into the panel. If I can avoid going through the concrete foundation and into the back of the panel I'll do that every time. Banging out the concrete is a lot of work and this is an old house (1900), so whatever I can do to make it easier that's where I'm going.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> All I'm saying is that water gets into that SE all the time. I prefer not to use it and I also prefer not to use aluminum conductors. On my services I use PVC weather heads and I put duct seal in the holes between the conductors to avoid any moisture from entering the conduit. This was something I had never thought of until 480 Sparky suggested it. I also go above and beyond and install spray in foam in the conduit where it goes from the outside to the inside. This is usually done in the LB directly below the meter. This helps to eliminate condensation damage to the busbar.


I get it now. I switched gears when you said you didn't use seu and started thinking pvc and cu conductors. I think you can run pvc all the way just using a bender where needed instead of following the direct contour of the outside wall surface.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Then I will run that thought by the town inspector to see if he approves. That would make my life a lot easier pulling those SEC's. However, I would still need to get around the brick back the wooden siding before going into the house and into the panel. If I can avoid going through the concrete foundation and into the back of the panel I'll do that every time. Banging out the concrete is a lot of work and this is an old house (1900), so whatever I can do to make it easier that's where I'm going.


I hope that the inspector will accomodate what you want to do. Sometimes they have to be reminded that the brick is just the veneer and that a lead caulking anchor only goes in about an inch or so anyway. Good luck.


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## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I also go above and beyond and install spray in foam in the conduit where it goes from the outside to the inside.


That's a good idea, what have the inspectors said about it? Doesn't typical spray foam have solvent in it that will eat thru the insulation?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> That's a good idea, what have the inspectors said about it? Doesn't typical spray foam have solvent in it that will eat thru the insulation?


That's what the LB cover is for.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

MacroManage said:


> That's a good idea, what have the inspectors said about it? Doesn't typical spray foam have solvent in it that will eat thru the insulation?


None have said no so far, but then again none of them ever ask to take the LB cover off. I can't imagine the spray foam would eat the insulation on the conductors. It's the same stuff as what's sprayed on romex I think.


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## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> It's the same stuff as what's sprayed on romex I think.


Ohh, then I believe it's different than what I'm thinking of. I know the Hilti spray foam has solvents in it.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

MacroManage said:


> Ohh, then I believe it's different than what I'm thinking of. I know the Hilti spray foam has solvents in it.


 
Use clear silicone it's cheaper than foam and all foam isn't water resistant.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

I see LBs in the risers around MA a lot. I think its gross but do what you must. If it was my home I'd opt for an underground service if I could afford it


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> I'm assuming it is but the bigger problem is that the panel's in the basement and obviously going through the chimney with PVC is not an option :laughing:


set meter/disco on chimney, rigid up for mast, pvc pipe over to panel...?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

When ever I have a question on POCO stuff, I ask my electrical inspector.

They always answer their phone when I call :thumbup:


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

Hey Mag, What is on the right side corner of the house or is that the front of the house.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> When ever I have a question on POCO stuff, I ask my electrical inspector.
> 
> They always answer their phone when I call :thumbup:


Yeah I have no problem getting a hold of an engineer with Ga. Power.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

cobra50 said:


> Hey Mag, What is on the right side corner of the house or is that the front of the house.


This service drop is actually in the back of the house. It'll sure be nice to have the van in the driveway 10' away from where I'll be working. Doing this upgrade all by myself. :thumbsup:


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> This service drop is actually in the back of the house. It'll sure be nice to have the van in the driveway 10' away from where I'll be working. Doing this upgrade all by myself. :thumbsup:


Can you move to the side of the house and install a meter/Disconect.
Looks like the poco lateral would be long enough.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jw0445 said:


> To each his own. Then why don't you bend the PVC without the LB at the same angle as the cornice?


I'm seriously beginning to like this idea. I've been wanting to purchase a hot box (the Greenlee) for the longest time and here would be a good place to break it in. :thumbsup: It'll be a tough pull because I'm figuring to use all 360º of bend space that I have with the riser.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

In a pinch you can use a tail pipe of a truck as long as it is long enough to heat the area you want.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Well, to me it would not matter. Lead caulking anchors will do the trick and be nowhere near the firebox or chimney tiles. To me you would be saving about 3 hours just putting in the service.:thumbsup:


 I would go with the chimney too.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Slightly off and on topic:

Why would the poco really care if you have an LB? I imagine it's theft. But if I (and I wouldn't) were to steal power I'd rather tap the drop than the wire in an LB.
But that's just me.


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## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Slightly off and on topic:
> 
> Why would the poco really care if you have an LB? I imagine it's theft. But if I (and I wouldn't) were to steal power I'd rather tap the drop than the wire in an LB.
> But that's just me.


Tapping the drop is more apparent to the meter man. The LB gives a thief access to make splices but the wiring could come out the back into the house where it's unseen.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> Tapping the drop is more apparent to the meter man. The LB gives a thief access to make splices but the wiring could come out the back into the house where it's unseen.


Run me through this. So one would drill a hole through the back of the LB and into the house, run the wire and splice?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

In New Jersey you can basically go around the house all you want, Once you go through to inside you need to go right into the main breaker. If you go through the house first and say the main is 10 feet away you have to install a main breaker outside then go in with ser. 
Ron if I was u I would just put it on the brick and go straight up through the fake roof. 
I you plan on bending the pvc like you said than you should first fill it with regular sand, tape both ends real good with duct tape and then heat it. The sand will allow you to bend the pipe without kinking it. I first saw this technique in Votech from an another electrician. I was amazed how nice he bent the pipe. I would bring a couple of extra sticks of pvc if you decide to try it. Its a great technique and can really help you out of some tight bends. If you do decide to do all those bends i would definatly use 2/0 copper.


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## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Run me through this. So one would drill a hole through the back of the LB and into the house, run the wire and splice?


Yup, they could wrap the wire around a tech screw and screw it right into the conductor. I'm sure some of you has seen the picture of that :laughing:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> Yup, they could wrap the wire around a tech screw and screw it right into the conductor. I'm sure some of you has seen the picture of that :laughing:


Never seen that exactly but a big I for ingenuity.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> In New Jersey you can basically go around the house all you want, Once you go through to inside you need to go right into the main breaker. If you go through the house first and say the main is 10 feet away you have to install a main breaker outside then go in with ser.
> Ron if I was u I would just put it on the brick and go straight up through the fake roof.
> I you plan on bending the pvc like you said than you should first fill it with regular sand, tape both ends real good with duct tape and then heat it. The sand will allow you to bend the pipe without kinking it. I first saw this technique in Votech from an another electrician. I was amazed how nice he bent the pipe. I would bring a couple of extra sticks of pvc if you decide to try it. Its a great technique and can really help you out of some tight bends. If you do decide to do all those bends i would definatly use 2/0 copper.


So how much sand do I need to fill a 10' length of 2" RNC?


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## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

I've never used sand. Just keep spinning it and taking it out to try it. As long as you don't overheat it it will bend fine. Kinks (or "egged" pipe as we call it) are easy to squeeze back to round before you cool the pipe down. Keep a bucket of water with you to pour over it when you have the bend right.


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I'm seriously beginning to like this idea. I've been wanting to purchase a hot box (the Greenlee) for the longest time and here would be a good place to break it in. :thumbsup: It'll be a tough pull because I'm figuring to use all 360º of bend space that I have with the riser.


Buy the one made by Current Tools, it is alot cheaper and it is identical. I have both and the only difference is the color...........


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

If you place it on the brick you will save enough money in labor to buy the hot box for the next job.:thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Meter on the brick is OUT because customer was asked about it and does not want it. What I would like to do is offset nipple out of the meter and up the brick to underside of the overhang of the second floor floor joists to an LB and the 3-4' up the service head. The customer will probably want the same circus act you see there now done in SE cable. Their house, not mine.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Meter on the brick is OUT because customer was asked about it and does not want it. What I would like to do is offset nipple out of the meter and up the brick to underside of the overhang of the second floor floor joists to an LB and the 3-4' up the service head. The customer will probably want the same circus act you see there now done in SE cable. Their house, not mine.


If you can't use the brick then your idea sounds as good as any. However, tonight I watched Holmes on Homes and it was about grow houses (weed). It would be hard to believe that the utility would ok an LB, but good luck.


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## bauler (Jan 2, 2008)

Would require some carpentry skills, but can you remove the wood on soffit? Feed it up through under the soffit and then the wall? The existing setup I count 5 90s. I think around here the POCO wouldn't stand for any LBs on the riser.

Another thought. Run it the same way as it is now, but when you reach the soffit run the sweep at at 45 angle across it to meet another sweep going up the upper wall. Use some strut to hold it out from the wall enough to make the upper outside bend. Would look kinda industrial, but would work. ???
Interesting head scratcher, let us know how you do it.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)




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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

So the POCO let you put a LB...Looks a lot better. Good job Mag! :thumbup:


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

Looks great:thumbup:, I love services in pipe.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

Looks good, but are my eyes going or did you tape up your neutral tap


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

That's to hide the romex connector.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Did the POCO put a tag on the LB too?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

sparks134 said:


> Did the POCO put a tag on the LB too?


No. The city inspector is the only one who'll see this service other than the meter reader.


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

Looks good Mag:thumbsup: I remember coming out the side of the the meter pan and the poco rejecting it. Was a long time ago...I think it was a underground pan. Looks like the wood siding split at the hook.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Looks better than I thought. Good install.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Nothing wrong with that. 

I never was a huge fan of using the PVC straps with PVC conduit. They break over time. I use RMC straps with PVC.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Magnettica said:


>


where does the flex on the left of the pic go?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

JoeKP said:


> where does the flex on the left of the pic go?


Good eye. The flex is protecting some telephone wiring.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> where does the flex on the left of the pic go?


 I think it is B.X.flex, Probably used as mechanical protection for the ground cable.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> I never was a huge fan of using the PVC straps with PVC conduit. They break over time. I use RMC straps with PVC.


I do that with smaller conduit. We've had this discussion before. Some inspectors would fail for RMC straps with PVC so I've never used them on a service. But yes I totally agree, stronger straps make for a better installation. :thumbsup:


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

I Stand Corrected. :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Hard at work!


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Electric Al said:


> I Stand Corrected. :laughing:


No problem. I was hoping it was a 120 volt line that would need to be replaced $$$.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Hard at work!


Came out nice, I cannot say I have to do a service with so much in the way. 


What is up with the yellow house? Are they running a pait shop in their attic? Look at the size of the louvers on the house. You might have to zoom in like I did.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Tucked in shirt _and_ white tennis shoes. 

Rocking the Seinfeld look.
:thumbup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Rocking the Seinfeld look.
> :thumbup:


:laughing: LOL...turned out nice; that's a tight squeeze between the ornamental support and the window.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I always wear sneakers at work nowadays.

No tennis playing here.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Tucked in shirt _and_ white tennis shoes.
> 
> Rocking the Seinfeld look.
> :thumbup:


 No soup for you! :chef:


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

I was gonna say you could do 3 90's and an offset to avoid the LB but looks like you got it! :thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

sparks134 said:


> No soup for you! :chef:


I was in a small dinner in ME and they had the soup Nazi's autographed 'head shot' on the wall.

He signs it with 'No Soup For You'


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> I was in a small dinner in ME and they had the soup Nazi's autographed 'head shot' on the wall.
> 
> He signs it with 'No Soup For You'


 I thought he actually opened up soup shops after the show.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I thought he actually opened up soup shops after the show.


You made me go looking and I found this




> In 2006, Thomas began selling autographed photographs of himself through catalogs such as Wall Street Creations Inc., glaring at the camera in chef's garb, with the handwritten notation "No soup for you!"



Man, I thought he had stopped by this dinner and gave them a custom autograph. 

He is really milking his 15 minutes

http://67.55.70.141/soupnazi/soupnazihome.htm


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

Ive actually been to his store in NYC....................
it was like 9 something for a small soup....
Im serious bro ridiculous I wouldn't pay that for a soup. maybe at a four star restaraunt but not at a soup store.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I was in a small dinner in ME and they had the soup Nazi's autographed 'head shot' on the wall.
> 
> He signs it with 'No Soup For You'


I believe he opened up or tried to open up shop in Chi-town!


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