# Finished 9 months of salting.



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

No dirty tricks, nothing, just did my job.

Unfortunately for them, they can't find the help they need on the street. 

So is the way of specialty work.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> No dirty tricks, nothing, just did my job.
> 
> Unfortunately for them, they can't find the help they need on the street.
> 
> So is the way of specialty work.


So your work was that of good work and good will?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I am a forking electrical pimp.

NUFF SAID.


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> No dirty tricks, nothing, just did my job.
> 
> Unfortunately for them, they can't find the help they need on the street.
> 
> So is the way of specialty work.


 
I'm still on my tour. The same thing, nothing shady, just doing my job. :thumbsup:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I am a forking electrical pimp.
> 
> NUFF SAID.


Someone has to pave the way.Where would we be without Louis and Clark?


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> No dirty tricks, nothing, just did my job.
> 
> Unfortunately for them, they can't find the help they need on the street.
> 
> So is the way of specialty work.




what was the pay difference??


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Someone has to pave the way.Where would we be without Louis and Clark?



About 2 years later.

Jefferson wrote in his diary that it would take 1,000 generations to fill the vast expanse of the west. It was done in just four.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

I actually sat through a class this afternoon detailing how to salt and such. Hoping to get out this week....With all these guys coming in as CE's the non-union sector needs help...perhaps the CE program does work...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Someone has to pave the way.Where would we be without Louis and Clark?


Well I can just hope 10,000,000 buffalo stronger and a few American Natives tribes still roaming the west????????????????????


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

brian john said:


> Well I can just hope 10,000,000 buffalo stronger and a few American Natives tribes still roaming the west????????????????????



Naa. The Corps of Discovery made no difference on the demise of the Native American.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I am ignorant of salting? What is it?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> Well I can just hope 10,000,000 buffalo stronger and a few American Natives tribes still roaming the west????????????????????


Well, when you think about it that way it IS sad. We only have control over what is going on around us at this time. It is pretty much the same situation as what had happened in regards to slavery. I hate it but I had no control because I was not here.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> I am ignorant of salting? What is it?



My RAT understanding of it is you try to get rat shops to vote to join the union.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> I am ignorant of salting? What is it?


It is something they claim they don't do in one thread then brag about in the next.


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> I am ignorant of salting? What is it?


 
Union members working for non-union shops, with permission of the union hall. The idea is to help promote the union and hope that the other workers or shop will sign on with the union. The person salting can only do their salting during breaks or after hours and has to show the employer that thay are a model employee.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

480sparky said:


> My RAT understanding of it is you try to get shops to vote to join the union.


No voting involved. The local wants to woo the contractor and PM's.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> I am ignorant of salting? What is it?


Bolshevik nonsense.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

crazymurph said:


> The person salting can only do their salting during breaks or after hours and has to show the employer that thay are a model employee.


I didn't do any personal talk, other than listen to the hands bring up their myths and dispel them. No meetings or any wierd crap like that. No secret handshakes. The local doesn't want the hands, they want the contractor. There were only a couple guys worth pursuing. One was interested, and the other will never be interested, both had ideological reasons for their perspective.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Someone has to pave the way.Where would we be without Louis and Clark?


I am sorry, but this is a very lame comparison. 
It's not like the union is an uncharted and foreign territory. 

A better comparison would be a door to door salesman. He comes to your house and tries to sell you something.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> I am sorry, but this is a very lame comparison.
> It's not like the union is an uncharted and foreign territory.
> 
> A better comparison would be a door to door salesman. He comes to your house and tries to sell you something.


yeah, lol, a late night info-mercial on cable tv.:laughing:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Do the non union shops know your "salting" when they hire you?


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I didn't do any personal talk, other than listen to the hands bring up their myths and dispel them. No meetings or any wierd crap like that. No secret handshakes. The local doesn't want the hands, they want the contractor. There were only a couple guys worth pursuing. One was interested, and the other will never be interested, both had ideological reasons for their perspective.


 
The international orginization wants the numbers. The local union wants and needs the contractors. The local does not need anymore benchwarmers.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

crazymurph said:


> Union members working for non-union shops, with permission of the union hall. The idea is to help promote the union and hope that the other workers or shop will sign on with the union. The person salting can only do their salting during breaks or after hours and has to show the employer that thay are a model employee.


What better way to show that any person...union, or not can do a good day's work...and let the contractor decide.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> Do the non union shops know your "salting" when they hire you?


Usually.....it's tough to hide 5-10 years or more in the IBEW on a resume.... At the class I sat in today it was exactly like Miller is explaining...we'll just go out on the job and complete it while answering any questions the other hands have....you aren't there to sabotage or pull anything sheisty, what and who would that benefit, besides probably being illegal?....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> I didn't do any personal talk, other than listen to the hands bring up their myths and dispel them. No meetings or any wierd crap like that. No secret handshakes. The local doesn't want the hands, they want the contractor. There were only a couple guys worth pursuing. One was interested, and the other will never be interested, both had ideological reasons for their perspective.



So what happens to all the guys working for the merit shop if the owner decides to jump ship?


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So what happens to all the guys working for the merit shop if the owner decides to jump ship?


With the CW/CE program they can join up and not have to ride the book, so they'll probably be back out working before me.....


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> With the CW/CE program they can join up and not have to ride the book, so they'll probably be back out working before me.....


THAT would piss me off.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> THAT would piss me off.


I love it when you're pissed off.

That means somebody is doing something right.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> I love it when you're pissed off.
> 
> That means somebody is doing something right.


:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

So in other words, screw the rats.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> The local doesn't want the hands, they want the contractor.


The union ......... it is all about the workers.:no:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> yeah, lol, a late night info-mercial on cable tv.:laughing:


Naw. More like Amway. :laughing:


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> The union ......... it is all about the workers.:no:


 
Take your idiot test


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

It always seemed to me like the union use salts to screw the non-union competition. 
They make it hard to get in the union but yet they try to organize thier competitors in. 
And we all know that you can't do quality work without a union apprenticeship, so how do these guys that get organized in do quality work?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

crazymurph said:


> Take your idiot test


 :laughing:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I've noticed that most good electrician's are working, non union that is. Out of all my sparkie buddies, the one's not working are not working for a reason. They either suck, have major attitude problems or have substance abuse problems. I have never been unemployed personally. Is it the same way in the union? the crappy guys are working out of the books, and the good guys stay busy. My father in law is int he carpernters union here in LA He hasn't worked off the books in 20 years. He just makes calls and goes to work, he usually has a choice of jobs, Now he's at LAX.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

On a side note, workers who are sent out as salts are generally top-quality men. If you don't think you have much to be worried about, I think you get good work and great production from salts. In fact, I don't think that... I know that.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> My father in law is int he carpernters union here in LA He hasn't worked off the books in 20 years. He just makes calls and goes to work, he usually has a choice of jobs, Now he's at LAX.


wow, I thought that union was dead.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> On a side note, workers who are sent out as salts are generally top-quality men. If you don't think you have much to be worried about, I think you get good work and great production from salts. In fact, I don't think that... I know that.


Simple salesmenship: send your best worker to impress.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> Simple salesmenship: send your best worker to impress.


You bet, which is what makes it hard for a contractor to pass up. If the rest of your normal workforce is otherwise satisfied and happy, and you have no special operational problems, it's probably not going to be a source of future worry. Just like hiring someone from a temp service... which is basically what union work is when it comes right down to it. Just a gigantic skilled labor temp service.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

crazymurph said:


> Take your idiot test


Stuff it up your ass


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> Stuff it up your ass


 Tell us how you really feel.:laughing:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Just a gigantic skilled labor temp service.


simple and very effective analogy.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

crazymurph said:


> Take your idiot test



He can't.

He's a rat, working for 6¢ an hour. No way is he gonna have a 5-spot. :laughing:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

bob badger said:


> stuff it up your ass


ouch!!! Ouch!!!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow, I'm annoyed and disgusted at the same time... and I'm pro-union for the most part. 
Last thing I wanna talk about on the job is my bennies with a salter. 
If I wanted to go union I'd try and get into the local.

Lame thread.
Gay.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Wow, I'm annoyed and disgusted at the same time... and I'm pro-union for the most part.
> Last thing I wanna talk about on the job is my bennies with a salter.
> If I wanted to go union I'd try and get into the local.
> 
> ...


how bout them giants? third place til 2011.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> I've noticed that most good electrician's are working, non union that is. Out of all my sparkie buddies, the one's not working are not working for a reason. They either suck, have major attitude problems or have substance abuse problems. I have never been unemployed personally. Is it the same way in the union? the crappy guys are working out of the books, and the good guys stay busy. My father in law is int he carpernters union here in LA He hasn't worked off the books in 20 years. He just makes calls and goes to work, he usually has a choice of jobs, Now he's at LAX.


I am not working simply cause I am "doing the right thing" waiting my turn on the books....there is maybe 1-2 calls going through here each week...at the same time I know there are many guys who avoid riding the books by riding the couch and never actually taking a layoff but just sit around 1-2 weeks or whatever until the shop calls them back....I could easily be working right now in the non-union, and when I was non-union I was never out of work....I also went from 15 dollars an hour as a fourth year to 26.41 an hour the day I joined.My previous employer offered an insurance package for my family of five at a premium of 521 a month with a 1500 dollar deductable...joining was a simple decision for me...I'd rather wait my turn than go back to those conditions....


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> how bout them giants? third place til 2011.


First place come September and beyond, mark my words. Fathers and Dodgers are gonna fall off. Only real worry is a CO surge... maybe, but I wouldn't put it past em.

Braves aint going to the playoffs, in case you're wondering.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Finished 9 months of salting


You must be great fry cook by now.:jester:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You must be great fry cook by now.:jester:


That sounded a little asian.
:laughing:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> First place come September and beyond, mark my words. Fathers and Dodgers are gonna fall off. Only real worry is a CO surge... maybe, but I wouldn't put it past em.
> 
> Braves aint going to the playoffs, in case you're wondering.


lol, that's funny, about as funny as the giants being any better than 3rd place.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> That sounded a little asian.
> :laughing:


he could of said, "Ah, you want fahk with you me-uh?"


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Widestance_Politics said:


> I am not working simply cause I am "doing the right thing" waiting my turn on the books....there is maybe 1-2 calls going through here each week...at the same time I know there are many guys who avoid riding the books by riding the couch and never actually taking a layoff but just sit around 1-2 weeks or whatever until the shop calls them back....I could easily be working right now in the non-union, and when I was non-union I was never out of work....I also went from 15 dollars an hour as a fourth year to 26.41 an hour the day I joined.My previous employer offered an insurance package for my family of five at a premium of 521 a month with a 1500 dollar deductable...joining was a simple decision for me...I'd rather wait my turn than go back to those conditions....


I have been there and I don't really know if it was right or wrong. It was called the furlough list. You were too good to let go but not good enough to work steady.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> lol, that's funny, about as funny as the giants being any better than 3rd place.


Mind backing it up with some stats? Or just talking sh!t?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Mind backing it up with some stats? Or just talking sh!t?


stats? better record for one.
pitching is there and offense has been clicking, averaging 5 runs a game for many weeks now...and Chipper, McCann and Escobar aren't even hitting well, YET.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Mind backing it up with some stats? Or just talking sh!t?


Actually, I bet you just hate the Braves because we have as many fans in your stadium as Giant's fans when we play out there. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Do baseball teams salt other teams? :001_huh:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Are you serious? LOL


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> stats? better record for one.
> pitching is there and offense has been clicking, averaging 5 runs a game for many weeks now...and Chipper, McCann and Escobar aren't even hitting well, YET.


Chipper=retire?
:laughing:
In the middle of the season?

The Braves defense is awful for one. Hitting is better than the Giants by a little bit but the pitching isn't. 

Record? Who cares about that, it's friggin June.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Do baseball teams salt other teams? :001_huh:


They pepper them.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> Are you serious? LOL


Who? Me?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Actually, I bet you just hate the Braves because we have as many fans in your stadium as Giant's fans when we play out there. :laughing:


Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. 

... and I don't hate the Braves. I hate the Dodgers.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I have been there and I don't really know if it was right or wrong. It was called the furlough list. You were too good to let go but not good enough to work steady.


And I'll be the first to admit that since I joined there are many similarities between the IBEW and other "big business",one being that who you know, or who you are related to will get you really far and on the inside track.It is exactly like a temp service, in fact that is one of the current targets of the salt program. A local temp agency that is hiring for a maintenance position for an electronics manufacturer. The biggest difference is that guy could go through them and make the 16-18 an hour that they offer,less the finders fee of the temp service,which is usually 4-5 dollars an hour, or organize with us and make just over 28 plus health and welfare benefits minus around 50 bucks a month in dues....That style of temp agency in my opinion caters more to the contractor than the employee also...


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Who? Me?


Yes, there's major salting in the MLB, NFL, NBA and probably hockey too.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

So if a salt joins a non-union shop, how do the existing employees(not the contractor himself) there tend to behave towards him if they know he's a union guy who's there to sell them on joining the IBEW? Are they wary and/or apprehensive of having this dude around?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Vintage Sounds said:


> So if a salt joins a non-union shop, how do the existing employees(not the contractor himself) there tend to behave towards him if they know he's a union guy who's there to sell them on joining the IBEW? Are they wary and/or apprehensive of having this dude around?



Since Miller doesn't seem to be answering the hard questions, the thread has turned to baseball.

Got any baseball questions?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Vintage Sounds said:


> So if a salt joins a non-union shop, how do the existing employees(not the contractor himself) there tend to behave towards him if they know he's a union guy who's there to sell them on joining the IBEW? Are they wary and/or apprehensive of having this dude around?


I could care less if a union guy is on the site. If he's doing the job he's paid to, no problem.

Now, if he spent every spare minute talking union vs. open, well, then I'd be annoyed.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Vintage Sounds said:


> So if a salt joins a non-union shop, how do the existing employees(not the contractor himself) there tend to behave towards him if they know he's a union guy who's there to sell them on joining the IBEW? Are they wary and/or apprehensive of having this dude around?


I haven't gone out yet, but I would assume that the reception is akin to the one on this forum Some would be open to hear about it and some would be adamant about wanting nothing to do with it. Does not mean you have to hate each other and not be able to work together. You don't even have to talk about any of it at all if you choose. Just outwork them, or at the very least keep up with em to hopefully change their perception of how the Union works.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> change their perception of how the Union works.


...or doesn't "work", IE, riding the pine.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Since Miller doesn't seem to be answering the hard questions, the thread has turned to baseball.
> 
> Got any baseball questions?


Sure...what's it like to play on a really well maintained field? I used to want to build a grass tennis court because to play on one is practically orgasmic compared to a regular paved one, but the maintenance is killer.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> ...or doesn't "work", IE, riding the pine.


I doubt you'll ever find the slugs salting a shop....in fact they hate a guy that salts just as much as you....To them we are helping a non-union shop make money, and ourselves, while they are on the books....plus I'm an organized hand so to a slug I get a double negative....


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

widestance_politics said:


> i doubt you'll ever find the slugs salting a shop....in fact they hate a guy that salts just as much as you....to them we are helping a non-union shop make money, and ourselves, while they are on the books....plus i'm an organized hand so to a slug i get a double negative....


here, here


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Wow, I'm annoyed and disgusted at the same time... and I'm pro-union for the most part.
> Last thing I wanna talk about on the job is my bennies with a salter.
> .


Heh heh heh.....

Like PAYING over a hundred bucks a week out of the check into a worthless health package? 

Speaking of retirement, yep, you build that off your bonuses when you're promoted to PM. NOT


Anyways, I never brought up that kind of sh1t when we talked, people never want to be told they work for an inferior package or outfit. They want to be excellent, everyone who is worth a sh1t wants to be with the like minded and build something excellent with excellent people. If a contractor does business in a fine upstanding local, he will have one hell of a time keeping his excellent hands from migrating towards what they have been shown is excellent.

I simply tell the greener that have high-potential they need to goto the trades classes at the community college, and really study their apprentice homework if they want to be excellent. I show them tips and tricks on a regular basis. I make them redo inferior work. I push them (c'mon, lets go...) to work faster and produce more. I tell them, 'we're the A-team.' That's all it takes folks. Pied Piper 101. I never push someone to make a decision, show them the direction to go to be excellent and the job does itself.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

you are about to realllly start the proverbial "kaka hitting the fan"


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I simply tell the greener that have high-potential they need to goto the trades classes at the community college, and really study their apprentice homework if they want to be excellent.


To think that apprentices that have formal training are smarter than non-union electricians is BS. Last union job I was on had the monkey's supporting four square boxes with EMT. I had to tell the lead that the thin metal strap on one of the transformers didn't bond the neutral to the ground. Had EMT ran in CMU walls at ground level(violates WA rules). Had over 500 degrees of bend in two underground PVC runs. That's the just the crap I noticed while there for two weeks.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Had over 500 degrees of bend in two underground PVC runs.


Okay, I've been guilty of that one myself more than a few times. :whistling2:


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

As an apprentice I had to find a discreet way to show my JW that he had over 800 degrees in one run of 1/2 inch.......later that day he busted me for not strapping within three feet of a junction. Nobody's perfect on either side of the fence, which is why inspectors stay employed........

edit: quoted the wrong poster...meant for Nitro...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> That sounded a little asian.
> :laughing:


 Bob has been known to get Chinese eyes. :rockon:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Since Miller doesn't seem to be answering the hard questions, the thread has turned to baseball.
> 
> Got any baseball questions?


AHHH! Professional sports. The biggest waste of time and money ever invented. I thought all of this basketball crap was over in March! 

I was never really amused at a bunch of grown men chasing a ball around. Put a few Pit Bulls, Dobermans or even some spastic Wiener Dogs out there with them and then you would have something to watch. :thumbsup:


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> No dirty tricks, nothing, just did my job.
> 
> Unfortunately for them, they can't find the help they need on the street.
> 
> So is the way of specialty work.


I have been in the Union for MANY years and I have never agreed with salting. So tell me, you salted for 9 months correct? What was the end result? What did you get resolved? What did the union get for your salting? What did the Non union contractor get (besides the union manning his job for him). Not trying to start an argument but I have never seen salting get anything done 99% of the time.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

BDB said:


> Not trying to start an argument but I have never seen salting get anything done 99% of the time.


Yep, nothing got accomplished. I think the contractor I was with got a little excited that I might stay, but I made it clear from the beginning it was only temporary. 

I've been non-union. I know it is better on the union side, but I won't ride any forking bench for any bunch of forking a-holes. Keepin it real, I'll lay on the couch for a week, but that's it. SALTING provided a legitimate way for me to get a job, while boosting the reputation of the local, and waiting out the book. Boost the reputation of the local, mission accomplished, its up to the local's management to work out some agreement with the contractor's management.

Without a doubt, everyone here is obsessed with their job. Its a way of life. A man like that can't just take a year off and do remodeling odd jobs. Skills got to be retained, new stuff learned. When I see a half-ways electrician who enjoys the time off, and isn't the greatest champ, I just scratch my head. I remember what an old manpower superintendint used to say to guys like that when they got their two checks, 'Now get the fork out of here, you piece of sh1t.' Heh heh hehhhh

I love this thread, I thought it would get five responses in a week and it got five pages in a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If you laid on the couch for a week, would you watch baseball?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Here in the South salting would not work. The shop or company would fire him the minute he mentioned the word union. I had to remove the IBEW from my resume when I moved here. I was not having any luck until I used the contractors names instead of the union. I had like six different employers over a 7 year period to account for. When I just had "IBEW" (various electrical contractors).
Just mention union here and EVERYONE goes bonkers. This is how you make enemies in the South. Just mention union here and see. 

The truth is, these idiots have no idea what a union is. They go by what their Daddy's and Grand Daddy's' said. They have no clue. No clue at all!

Yes, they do say Daddy. It's weird to hear a grown man say "Diddy". That's how it's pronounced down here. "Diddy".


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

BDB said:


> I have been in the Union for MANY years and I have never agreed with salting. So tell me, you salted for 9 months correct? What was the end result? What did you get resolved? What did the union get for your salting? What did the Non union contractor get (besides the union manning his job for him). Not trying to start an argument but I have never seen salting get anything done 99% of the time.


Well one way it can help is say an out of State contractor undercuts a bid in your local. 99% of the time these contractors hire local hands. Once you get some salts in there you start to gain some control and influence. If your local happens to have the majority of the labor pool, then you will have control of the contractor. As soon as he breaks the law, which could be intentional or not, you will have grounds for a labor dispute. It is a way to keep local guys working on local projects, and at the same time tell these roving shops to stay the fork out of here. They may not close their doors but if they aren't willing to negotiate with our local in our city, they will certainly think twice about ever returning and they are not going to walk out of the state with as much profit as they hoped. You don't treat a local contractor in a negative fashion as that helps no one. These guys live and work here and when you feel that you are "comfortable" in your situation you arent going to go look for information on the Union. Instead you will just believe the rumors and stories everyone tells or they have overheard. Salting is a method of getting actual hands out in the field to explain how the Union has helped them, rather than have an organizer from the hall show up in a suit and sell it like a car......


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> Here in the South salting would not work. The shop or company would fire him the minute he mentioned the word union. I had to remove the IBEW from my resume when I moved here. I was not having any luck until I used the contractors names instead of the union. I had like six different employers over a 7 year period to account for. When I just had "IBEW" (various electrical contractors).
> Just mention union here and EVERYONE goes bonkers. This is how you make enemies in the South. Just mention union here and see.
> 
> The truth is, these idiots have no idea what a union is. They go by what their Daddy's and Grand Daddy's' said. They have no clue. No clue at all!
> ...


 
It is true we dont think much of unions here in the south but to say we dont know what a union is or is about is not true. We know all about unions. I didn't need dad to help me form an opinion about unions.
I've lived in the south all my life and traveled thru all the states surrounding nc. Never have I heard anyone say diddy. Dad, Pops, daddy but never diddy.:no: Where are they saying it that way? That is crazy!:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> ........ Once you get some salts in there you start to gain some *control* and influence. If your local happens to have the majority of the labor pool, then you will have *control* of the contractor. ................ Salting is a method of getting actual hands out in the field to explain how the Union has helped them, .............


Does one who is "salting" explain why the union wants all that *control*? :001_huh:


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Does one who is "salting" explain why the union wants all that *control*? :001_huh:


I don't need it explained....if you control the labor pool and market, you control the wages and working conditions. I am all for keeping out of state contractors out of state, or at least changing the bid process/laws so that it is extremely hard for them to beat out a local contractor whether Union or Non-Union.....


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

So what does a rat do to entice a union boy to the dark side?

Can I come work on a union job just to sabotage?

I would love to see one of you guys come down here and try to pull that sh!t.:laughing:

You would be digging a hole all day every day. No breaks and no lunch.

If someone wanted to join they would try


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

walkerj said:


> So what does a rat do to entice a union boy to the dark side?
> 
> Can I come work on a union job just to sabotage?
> 
> ...



No, that is exactly what they would like the company to do to them than they will get lawyers and even if the company wins they will have put out a ton of money defending themselves.

The salts I have worked with would all push the legal limits, if the job starts at 7 they show up at 7, not second before.

Safety gear like safety glasses they need new pairs each day because yesterdays are scratched or they lost them. But the company better not complain about it or the salt will cry to whatever government department that will listen.

Personally I think salts are lower than the corn kernels in a turd. And I pretty much would tell them that at each break and lunch.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

walkerj said:


> So what does a rat do to entice a union boy to the dark side?
> 
> Can I come work on a union job just to sabotage?
> 
> ...


See? It looks as if we have a common ground....you don't want anyone coming into your area and screwing with your lively-hood either....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> I don't need it explained....if you control the labor pool and market, you control the wages and working conditions. I am all for keeping out of state contractors out of state, or at least changing the bid process/laws so that it is extremely hard for them to beat out a local contractor whether Union or Non-Union.....



So it's all about control? If so, then it's 'screw the free market and free enterprise'.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

My friend was salted and equipment kept breaking on just one particular where the salt was, the salt was constantly stirring up problems, so finally he was let go. My friend was brought before the NLRB for unfair discharge in a right to work state. He took a lawyer with r\him and finally won the case, but it cost him in time and money.

My knowledge of salting is not the good experience Miller had but mine is all . second hand knowledge. So a bit of exaggeration may be included.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)




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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So it's all about control? If so, then it's 'screw the free market and free enterprise'.


Right now in my area it is like that. We just went through a 15 year housing boom...Free-market and Right -to -work got us hundreds of fly-by-night shops from California and surrounding States. As a result, I now compete for jobs with guys who's only experience with a transformer was when they wired a doorbell....I started out framing homes and watched that industry drop to minimum wage and immigrants. All trades like framing, landscaping, insulation, agriculture and etc. have been decimated by free enterprise and immigration laws. Somewhere along the lines of the boom Boise was voted in the top 5 cities to move to, so the government decided that it would be a great idea to relocate refugees from Bosnia, Serbia, Darfur, Iraq, Jordan etc. etc. I hear it was the same for some cities in Illinois. So in my view the only way to combat this degrade is to help build the Union, or become a contractor and get in on the throat-cutting by hiring up guys willing to work for 14-15 an hour with limited experience, or a bunch of refugees in an effort to "help" them.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> an out of State contractor undercuts a bid in your local. 99% of the time these contractors hire local hands.


This is one of my BIG problems with salting. You / Union are helping this company out by manning the job for him. If I was non union I would love to know that I can get the hall to man the job for me and I do not have to pay any of the Union charges or go by any of the Union rules.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Widestance_Politics said:


> or become a contractor and get in on the


American dream and treat the people right.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Let me fully acknowledge that what my experience has been may be very different from others experience.

In my case all the salts on the job where undesirables and seemed that the goal was not to impress the company with skilled workers but fully intended to cause the company to do something that would allow legal action against the company.

In no way shape or form did the company benefit from the 4 salts we had on a 20 man crew. The salts where low production high maintenance whiners.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Let me fully acknowledge that what my experience has been may be very different from others experience.
> 
> In my case all the salts on the job where undesirables and seemed that the goal was not to impress the company with skilled workers but fully intended to cause the company to do something that would allow legal action against the company.
> 
> In no way shape or form did the company benefit from the 4 salts we had on a 20 man crew. The salts where low production high maintenance whiners.


I am not trying to convince anyone of the benefits of salting, or to say that there is not any negatives tied to it. I am not trying to organize anyone on this forum either. I'm just answering the questions with what I see happen around me, and what I was told would be required of me in the class.I can say that I will not go onto a job and conciously try to screw another man out of his job or company. I can make my own decisions and will speak my mind if anyone expects me to do something I don't agree with. I grew up in Indiana where at that time a kid could get a summer job topping corn...every kid in my town did it over the summer. When I came out west at 14 I found one farm that hired local teenagers and gave them 2 breaks and 1/2 hour lunch for an 8 hour day. Being young and oblivious to my surroundings I can remember us driving out to fields and passing the mexicans who had already started work around 4:30 or 5 am. We were off around three every day and when I would drive into town I would see them out in the fields until dusk. We would laugh at how ignorant we thought they were to work those hours for less than minimum wage, let alone the run-down labor camps they go home to. The next year the same farm I worked for was hiring mexican immigrants to make a profit, or at the very least stay afloat. I see this happen in every trade, or industry in my area......I refuse to watch this happen to a career that I really do enjoy and have invested a lot of time and effort into....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Right now in my area it is like that. We just went through a 15 year housing boom...Free-market and Right -to -work got us hundreds of fly-by-night shops from California and surrounding States. As a result, I now compete for jobs with guys who's only experience with a transformer was when they wired a doorbell....I started out framing homes and watched that industry drop to minimum wage and immigrants. All trades like framing, landscaping, insulation, agriculture and etc. have been decimated by free enterprise and immigration laws. Somewhere along the lines of the boom Boise was voted in the top 5 cities to move to, so the government decided that it would be a great idea to relocate refugees from Bosnia, Serbia, Darfur, Iraq, Jordan etc. etc. I hear it was the same for some cities in Illinois. So in my view the only way to combat this degrade is to help build the Union, or become a contractor and get in on the throat-cutting by hiring up guys willing to work for 14-15 an hour with limited experience, or a bunch of refugees in an effort to "help" them.


What was that? I couldn't hear you. There was a baby crying.



Sorry, but this country was _built_ on free enterprise. Now it's OK for the union to destroy the free market? Just because you can't learn to compete in an open market doesn't give you the right to take your competition out by forcing your views and methods on them. That's being the Mafia, not a union.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Right now in my area it is like that. We just went through a 15 year housing boom...Free-market and Right -to -work got us hundreds of fly-by-night shops from California and surrounding States.


That is the fault of your building enforcement department, we have out of state contractors here all the time they play by the same rules we do, except one union contractor from Florida, that pays Florida scale in our area ( I HAVE BEEN TOLD)


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> What was that? I couldn't hear you. There was a baby crying.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but this country was _built_ on free enterprise. Now it's OK for the union to destroy the free market? Just because you can't learn to compete in an open market doesn't give you the right to take your competition out by forcing your views and methods on them. That's being the Mafia, not a union.


I guess you forgot about that section of history where our nation was built upon slavery and our great- grandparents worked 18 hour days for a pittance at the age 10 in a factory.....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> I guess you forgot about that section of history where our nation was built upon slavery and our great- grandparents worked 18 hour days for a pittance at the age 10 in a factory.....


And those are _still_ great ideas. Maybe I should force you to adopt them. I could care less whether or not you agree with them or not. I just want to control you.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> And those are _still_ great ideas. Maybe I should force you to adopt them. I could care less whether or not you agree with them or not. I just want to control you.


Where did anyone say that you were forced to hire Union labor? The contractors that hire us know full well what they are doing. I'm not sure why you are getting so worked up over the topic, it's not like we are advocating sending out apprentice's to wire up a swimming pool in the name of free enterprise.....


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Widestance_Politics said:


> I guess you forgot about that section of history where our nation was built upon slavery


Yes and there are now laws against that and the unions had nothing to do with those laws.



> and our great- grandparents worked 18 hour days for a pittance at the age 10 in a factory.....


There are also laws against those issues as well, most assuredly unions supported those laws, I have no doubt about that. Back in the day the unions causes where very noble. Union members where beaten, killed or harassed for their part in bringing some terrible workplace conditions to an end. I salute those people for what they did.

But at this point in time IMPO most of the unions causes today are anything but noble, more like selfish and self serving. The unions themselves now harass non-union workers .......... kind of a full circle kind of thing.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Where did anyone say that you were forced to hire Union labor?......



You did. You want to control the contractors. By controlling the contractors, you will require them to hire union workers, won't you?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Where did anyone say that you were forced to hire Union labor?


Ahh if the shop votes union the company owner really does not get a choice. IMPO that is nearly criminal.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> You did. You want to control the contractors. By controlling the contractors, you will require them to hire union workers, won't you?


That is the ultimate, long-term goal that I don't see happening. I assume that if an area ever became close to controlling 100% of the market that they would fall under laws regarding a Monopoly. I think the Union would implode on itself actually if it controlled the contractors (management) and the labor, besides being an oxy-moron. The Union contractors have their own board NECA who negotiates the agreement with the hall. Signing signatory as a contractor to the Union does not mean that the Union owns you. The hall is subject to the same labor laws as anyone else, and have lost their fair share of lawsuits as well. 

And regarding Bob's comment, if a shop truly treats his employees well why would they vote against him? I know three guys that work for BERG in Oregon and you would never get those guys to vote against the shop. From what they say the shop used to be Union and left over regulations/rules but took almost the entire crew with them because they kept all of the pay/benefits and everyone I have met that worked for them will only speak positive.

I am learning about the Union as I go, I haven't been in very long and am certainly not the guy with all the answers. And what is happening in my area may be 180 degrees from what goes on in Cornpatch, but for me and my family the Union is the best option.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> ........, but for me and my family the Union is the best option.



That's fine. I'm happy for you.

But don't try to force the same standards on me.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

BDB said:


> This is one of my BIG problems with salting. You / Union are helping this company out by manning the job for him. If I was non union I would love to know that I can get the hall to man the job for me and I do not have to pay any of the Union charges or go by any of the Union rules.


You are helping yourself by getting a job. Don't you think that contractor can find someone to do the work?

The Union in my area is not low handed or full of lazy people. They work hard and don't force the union view on everyone else. Except for a few hardcore members. On the other hand they are no better electricians than many of the non-union ones I've worked with. They can come down off their imaginary high horse any time.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> That's fine. I'm happy for you.
> 
> But don't try to force the same standards on me.


Agreed, don't show up in my town to make a quick buck then drop everybody 
as you move on and we'll get along famously


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> No, that is exactly what they would like the company to do to them than they will get lawyers and even if the company wins they will have put out a ton of money defending themselves.
> 
> The salts I have worked with would all push the legal limits, if the job starts at 7 they show up at 7, not second before.
> 
> ...


 
Well Bob, here in Louisiana breaks are not required so he would be screwed.

As far as safety glasses and other contractor provided consumables, I deal with that with all my guys anyway.

We can also let people go for "unsatisfactory job performance" so if the hole wasn't three feet deep by 9AM and I needed it to be well then tough titty.

I don't think it would be a problem where I work because we make higher than scale with very comparable benefits.

This is just my opinion:whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Agreed, don't show up in my town to make a quick buck then drop everybody
> as you move on and we'll get along famously


Why should I agree to limit my trade area?

Oh, that's right. You want to control me by forcing your standards on me.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Why should I agree to limit my trade area?
> 
> Oh, that's right. You want to control me by forcing your standards on me.


Show up with the manpower and required training/licensing and you won't have to worry about being forced into anything......


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Show up with the manpower and required training/licensing...........


But you don't want me to work on your area, do you? Which is it?

If I did do any work in your area, that's the only way I would do it.... legally.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

this thread was designed to go down the toilet from the first post & title.

time to flush it.

it's the never ending story. miller wanted a rise out of you guys and he got it. again.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Agreed, don't show up in my town to make a quick buck then drop everybody
> as you move on and we'll get along famously


Why not? If the contractor meets all the mandatory rules of the state And local government for performing work what is the issue?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

brian john said:


> Why not? If the contractor meets all the mandatory rules of the state And local government for performing work what is the issue?



It's his 'entitlement' to get all the local work. :whistling2:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

wildleg said:


> this thread was designed to go down the toilet from the first post & title.
> 
> time to flush it.
> 
> it's the never ending story. miller wanted a rise out of you guys and he got it. again.


Actually I never thought Miller was baiting anyone, he was making a statement and his work method for salting is acceptable. He kept employed and ( per his post) work ethically with in the laws and the contractor kept him around.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> But you don't want me to work on your area, do you? Which is it?
> 
> If I did do any work in your area, that's the only way I would do it.... legally.


What I mean by that quote is that if you showed up with a skilled/licensed crew than you would have no reason to secure a Union salt, so you would have nothing to worry about....but if you show up here without a Master Electrician licensed in the state of Idaho, and need to secure one to pull your permits, don't be surprised when we start applying.....You have the right to work here, and you have the right to hire from the market here. I have the right to apply, and you have the right to decide on employing me. If you feel that the Union is doing anything underhanded or illegal, then by all means hire an attorney. Because they have many lawyers waiting for you to break the law. If every shop that came through here followed the laws and treated people fair then I don't see how my local could even exist.....


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I've worked as a salt. The EC is a very good friend of mine and needed an extra hand while I was laid off due to weather. I asked him if he was ready to sign up as a union contractor and we had a good laugh. I called the hall and they approved it. I was working for $10 an hour less but it was easy work, (a commercial office building) and a lot of fun. 
It was a good experience and was nice to see the other side of the electrical world.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> Personally I think salts are lower than the corn kernels in a turd. And I pretty much would tell them that at each break and lunch.


Bob, judge not lest ye be judged.

That being said, I can comfortably say many, many people feel that way about yerself.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> Yes and there are now laws against that and the unions had nothing to do with those laws.


B.S. Unions had everything to do with those laws. 

B Badger needs a college course in US History, not some Glenn Beck commentary.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Why should I agree to limit my trade area?


The only thing limiting your success is the god-awful amount of posting you do on forums. Somehow the union is to blame for this?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Bob, judge not lest ye be judged.


You may well be the exception but as I explained the Salts I have had to deal with were not out to be helpful or friendly.



> That being said, I can comfortably say many, many people feel that way about yerself.


Yeah I get that a lot from those that want their hand held. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> B.S. Unions had everything to do with those laws.


Go back and read what I said.

The topic was _*slavery*_ and if you think the unions had to do with the abolishment of slavery you are a moron that is beyond help.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> The only thing limiting your success is the god-awful amount of posting you do on forums. Somehow the union is to blame for this?


so you resort to name calling and chastisement....nice.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> The only thing limiting your success is the god-awful amount of posting you do on forums. Somehow the union is to blame for this?


Any time you want to stop putting words in my mouth is fine with me.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)




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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> B.S. Unions had everything to do with those laws.
> 
> B Badger needs a college course in US History, not some Glenn Beck commentary.


You had me till you said this, did you flunk American History, or just plain blinded by the union?

As for Glenn Beck not my favorite person but he is a constitutionalist, you have issues with the constitution?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Right now in my area it is like that. We just went through a 15 year housing boom...Free-market and Right -to -work got us hundreds of fly-by-night shops from California and surrounding States.
> So your saying the free market created new business' and new jobs? Wow thats a fu**ing tradgedy.
> As a result, I now compete for jobs
> Competition is bad?
> ...


I dont understand that, How do Serbians, Bosnians, Iraqis, and Jordanians Degrade Boise? Are they somehow lower class then the union workers? 
How should we handle these Lower class? Turn on the showers and fire the ovens? Help me understand your point. Whats your solution.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> No dirty tricks, nothing, just did my job.
> 
> Unfortunately for them, they can't find the help they need on the street.
> 
> So is the way of specialty work.


Why would you even want to be an undercover agent and then come in here telling us about it??

Is this something to be proud of?? :blink:


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

gold said:


> I dont understand that, How do Serbians, Bosnians, Iraqis, and Jordanians Degrade Boise? Are they somehow lower class then the union workers?
> How should we handle these Lower class? Turn on the showers and fire the ovens? Help me understand your point. Whats your solution.


Send them to Jersey......:jester:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Send them to Jersey......:jester:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Send them to Jersey......:jester:


Bigotry is frowned on in the union! They have sensitivity training to reprogram those thought to be narrow minded. Shame, shame, shame, shame on you,:blink:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> Bigotry is frowned on in the union!


Frowned upon by the 3% that attend union meetings. Riddle me that BATMAN!


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

bob badger said:


> yeah i get that a lot from those that want their hand held. :laughing:


lol! 

Nice!


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> As for Glenn Beck not my favorite person but he is a constitutionalist,


Not to get on The Beckinator, but he's an entertainer. He can call himself whatever he wants as long as he sells advertising. 

You can't pull wool over my eyes, I'm related to siege mentality rabid right-wingers with a mini-bunker and food stuffs. They call themselves constitutionalists too. Hah ha!


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Why would you even want to be an undercover agent and then come in here telling us about it??


Nothing undercover about it. Everyone knew.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Finished 9 months of salting? :thumbup:

I guess if you were a choice employee, you wouldn't have to stoop to this to have a job.

I couldn't even imagine being told, "they only job we have for you, is to go work here and spread our propaganda". And then 9 months later, you accomplished nothing.

I think I'd shoot myself for being a failure.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Frowned upon by the 3% that attend union meetings. Riddle me that BATMAN!


Our local required all members to take a sensitivity course to minimize racial and fem issues.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

nitro71 said:


> You are helping yourself by getting a job. Don't you think that contractor can find someone to do the work?



So it is ok for the union men to go work non union, but if I want to hire joe blow from off the street and not through the hall, what do you think would happen? I call it double standard.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

BDB said:


> So it is ok for the union men to go work non union, but if I want to hire joe blow from off the street and not through the hall, what do you think would happen? I call it double standard.


Actually it is called the CE program.....If you are a Union contractor you can take advantage of this program...call your local hall for info, although if you were a Union contractor I assume you would know about this...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Actually it is called the CE program.....If you are a Union contractor you can take advantage of this program...call your local hall for info, although if you were a Union contractor I assume you would know about this...


Yes then the CE / open shop is treated as a low life like the Serbians, Bosnians, Iraqis, and Jordanians you think so little of. Now theres a position a man wants to place him self in.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Actually it is called the CE program.....If you are a Union contractor you can take advantage of this program...call your local hall for info, although if you were a Union contractor I assume you would know about this...


No IF about it young man, I am a Union Contractor and I know about the CE program(CE program has ratio, some benefits,a pay scale etc.), I am not talking about the CE program. I am talking about me just getting someone off the street and not someone that is in the CE program and not someone the hall knows about.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

brian john said:


> Yes then the CE / open shop is treated as a low life like the Serbians, Bosnians, Iraqis, and Jordanians you think so little of. Now theres a position a man wants to place him self in.


There are many Americans I hold on the same level in my personal opinion and view...I don't center my distaste on any one race/religion/credo/Nationality.....If a guy doesn't want to place himself in that position than he doesn't have to...If you are a non-union contractor that doesn't agree with hiring a "salt" then throw away his resume....If you don't agree with how something is being handled in your area of the world or country then by all means take the steps you deem necessary to change it...If I was Non-Union I would feel the same way about the contractor down the street hiring immigrants or cutting corners to secure a bid all under the guise of "free enterprise"..... If you don't agree with me that is cool too...


----------



## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

BDB said:


> No IF about it young man, I am a Union Contractor and I know about the CE program(CE program has ratio, some benefits,a pay scale etc.), I am not talking about the CE program. I am talking about me just getting someone off the street and not someone that is in the CE program and not someone the hall knows about.


Well I can't comment on any agreement that you signed....perhaps you have a copy of it?.....


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> I think I'd shoot myself for being a failure.


Don't let me stop you, this ain't no suicide hotline.


----------



## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Well I can't comment on any agreement that you signed....perhaps you have a copy of it?.....


Of course I do, what does that have to do with what we are talking about?


----------



## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

BDB said:


> Of course I do, what does that have to do with what we are talking about?


Well your asking what would happen to you if you hired a guy off the street and put him to work without contacting the hall, or trying to skew the CE ratio...I assume that somewhere in your agreement they detail what would happen.....


----------



## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Well your asking what would happen to you if you hired a guy off the street and put him to work without contacting the hall, or trying to skew the CE ratio...I assume that somewhere in your agreement they detail what would happen.....


It was NOT a question I needed you to answer, you know as well as I do the hall would not go for that and there would be charges filed. But the hall lets union guys salt.I am just saying it is a double standard on how they do things.


----------



## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

BDB said:


> It was NOT a question I needed you to answer, you know as well as I do the hall would not go for that and there would be charges filed. But the hall lets union guys salt.I am just saying it is a double standard on how they do things.


Many of the Union members are just as unhappy about it as you are.....Many more are unhappy about the CE program...


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> Yes then the CE / open shop is treated as a low life.


The respectable earn the respect they deserve. There's bullys and jerks in all occupations and walks of life. Good electricians will not suffer a jerk or bully.

An electrician's talent is pretty obvious, it is displayed everywhere he has been. It is not unheard of to see an inferior electrician make trouble for a talented one because he feels threatened. 

In my past experience, a good electrician will also not idly stand by while an inferior electrician is unfairly bullied. Matter of fact, it is MY personal policy to not suffer an a-hole, or see my friends undeservedly suffer an a-hole,(by the PM,) and that folks, is how I came to the Book in the first place. Does that answer your question doucheldorf?


----------



## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Many of the Union members are just as unhappy about it as you are.....Many more are unhappy about the CE program...


Ok, but how many are "upset" with the salting?


----------



## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

BDB said:


> Ok, but how many are "upset" with the salting?


Enough that they informed us at the class we would probably catch flack from guys if we are noticed around town.....no idea how many actually...


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

BDB said:


> Ok, but how many are "upset" with the salting?


All the slug milk maid types.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> Our local required all members to take a sensitivity course to minimize racial and fem issues.


It was a rough go with the sensitivity during the last presidential election. The N-word was dropped on a regular basis, on a hospital new construction job no less. Nothing hushed about it.

Not condoning that.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

BDB said:


> So it is ok for the union men to go work non union, but if I want to hire joe blow from off the street and not through the hall, what do you think would happen? I call it double standard.


I wouldn't get all up in arms about the SALTING epidemic.

It is LESS than 1 SALT per 100 guys on the list, maybe even less than 1 per 150. But more than 1 per 200.

On a brutally honest note, not sure about how many are working outside of the salt program, officially on the rolls of a non-union EC.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> I wouldn't get all up in arms about the SALTING epidemic.
> 
> It is LESS than 1 SALT per 100 guys on the list, maybe even less than 1 per 150. But more than 1 per 200.
> 
> On a brutally honest note, not sure about how many are working outside of the salt program, officially on the rolls of a non-union EC.


Don't you think that since you guys have to salt that there may be a problem with the way you do things?

Kinda like how a pedophile has to use candy and toys to get the kid in the van.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Don't you think that since you guys have to salt that there may be a problem with the way you do things?
> 
> Kinda like how a pedophile has to use candy and toys to get the kid in the van.


 :laughing:


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> Kinda like how a pedophile has to use candy and toys to get the kid in the van.


Is this based on personal experience?


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> It is true we dont think much of unions here in the south but to say we dont know what a union is or is about is not true. We know all about unions. I didn't need dad to help me form an opinion about unions.
> I've lived in the south all my life and traveled thru all the states surrounding nc. Never have I heard anyone say diddy. Dad, Pops, daddy but never diddy. Where are they saying it that way? That is crazy!:laughing:


I should have said it's pronounced "Diddy". Listen to yourself and see.
I would put money that you have never been in a strong union like the IBEW. Unless you were a member you really don't know.



walkerj said:


> So what does a rat do to entice a union boy to the dark side?


Will not work. You don't go from the penthouse to the sh*t house.



Bob Badger said:


> No, that is exactly what they would like the company to do to them than they will get lawyers and even if the company wins they will have put out a ton of money defending themselves.
> 
> The salts I have worked with would all push the legal limits, if the job starts at 7 they show up at 7, not second before.
> 
> ...


Bob, Are you sure your not from SC. or GA.?



Bob Badger said:


> Let me fully acknowledge that what my experience has been may be very different from others experience.
> 
> In my case all the salts on the job where undesirables and seemed that the goal was not to impress the company with skilled workers but fully intended to cause the company to do something that would allow legal action against the company.
> 
> In no way shape or form did the company benefit from the 4 salts we had on a 20 man crew. The salts where low production high maintenance whiners.


Funny thing is I have heard all about salting but never saw it in real life. Like MDshunk you must 200 years old with all the background. I was in the union and never even met a salt.



Bob Badger said:


> Ahh if the shop votes union the company owner really does not get a choice. IMPO that is nearly criminal.


Once again a previous member and have never seen it happen. Can we say 300 years old. :laughing:



Widestance_Politics said:


> Show up with the manpower and required training/licensing and you won't have to worry about being forced into anything......


This is a very good point. This is something I actually witnessed. Union shops from my experience were much more prepared for medium/large projects and the non-union shops could barely get a scissor lift onto the site. Not to mention all electricians had to have at least a minimum JW license excluding apprentices. Non-union will have one JW and 100 helpers! :whistling2: 



miller_elex said:


> Is this based on personal experience?


Yes. :laughing:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> I should have said it's pronounced "Diddy". Listen to yourself and see.
> I would put money that you have never been in a strong union like the IBEW. Unless you were a member you really don't know.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

480sparky said:


> That's fine. I'm happy for you.
> 
> But don't try to force the same standards on me.


 
Man you like to twist it up. Salting just shows the contractor that if he chooses to be union he can have access to a highly skilled labor force. Some contractors choose not be union which is fine and some find it beneficial that they can bid all the work they want and not have to worryabout manning the job. It's all about choice. Just trying to sell services like you would try to sell your services.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> Man you like to twist it up. Salting just shows the contractor that if he chooses to be union he can have access to a highly skilled labor force. Some contractors choose not be union which is fine and some find it beneficial that they can bid all the work they want and not have to worryabout manning the job. It's all about choice. Just trying to sell services like you would try to sell your services.



I'm not twisting anything up. Widestance already stated he wants the union to control my company.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> Man you like to twist it up. Salting just shows the contractor that if he chooses to be union he can have access to a highly skilled labor force. Some contractors choose not be union which is fine and some find it beneficial that they can bid all the work they want and not have to worryabout manning the job. It's all about choice. Just trying to sell services like you would try to sell your services.


 

So you are saying if you are not union you aren't highly skilled? Does the union keep morons from joining? Slackers? Idiots? I imagine you are saying better trained from school etc. A lot of non union companys have crews that have been with them for a long time and do not have issues manning jobs. At least here they don't.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> I am sorry, but this is a very lame comparison.
> It's not like the union is an uncharted and foreign territory.
> 
> A better comparison would be a door to door salesman. He comes to your house and tries to sell you something.


And if you don't want to buy...you don't buy. Nothing to be upset about.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm Not saying anything about the non union side just telling you what we have to offer period.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> Man you like to twist it up. Salting just shows the contractor that if he chooses to be union he can have access to a highly skilled labor force. Some contractors choose not be union which is fine and some find it beneficial that they can bid all the work they want and not have to worryabout manning the job. It's all about choice. Just trying to sell services like you would try to sell your services.


This is all nonsense.


You have to be invited to bid, and once the Union salts you and forceably takes your company, you will not be invited to bid anything. This trick is one of the oldest in the book. 

And once they turn you, they send you slugs just to hurt you more, not highly skilled electricians.

Who you trying to kid?


----------



## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> This is all nonsense.
> 
> 
> You have to be invited to bid, and once the Union salts you and forceably takes your company, you will not be invited to bid anything. This trick is one of the oldest in the book.
> ...


WOW


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> This is all nonsense.
> 
> 
> You have to be invited to bid, and once the Union salts you and forceably takes your company, you will not be invited to bid anything. This trick is one of the oldest in the book.
> ...


WTF are you................. Dinkle, are you drunk already??

Invited.....bid...salt .....takes ...... company....not....invited....slugs....?????????????
Old .......Trick.....:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

This thread must die.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> This is all nonsense.
> 
> 
> You have to be invited to bid, and once the Union salts you and forceably takes your company, you will not be invited to bid anything. This trick is one of the oldest in the book.
> ...


You make no sense. A contractor that can't bid doesn't make money. That would defeat the whole purpose.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I have worked open shop and union, I liked all the contractors I worked for open shop (except one), all the contractors were fair and took good care of me. BUT I wanted to be union because of the benefits and and pay. I had to fight my way in and took crap from men that were not good enough to carry my tools, these slackers looked down their noses at anyone that got in the backdoor as a substandard person not worth communicating with. The first all union job I was on I could not believe the crap quality work, the open shops I worked for would NEVER have accepted the crap quality work. Since then I have been on some union jobs that were works of art TOP NOTCH, similar to the open shops I had worked for. 

Quality and what happens is a byproduct of management and and how they run their jobs, union, open shop quality and skilled workers exist in both places.

For a worker IMO being union is the best alternative, if you are a good SKILLED worker chances are you will be employed, and if you are just another get your 40 and bitch about the boss you will sit on the bench when times are slow.

For me being a union contractor has few to no advantages, I have hired all my men (with the exception of 1) from the street or from other contractors union and open shop. There is a certain frustration dealing with the men that have only worked union. The men that worked open shop have a better understanding of what makes a good working relationship, the long time union men see it as an us and them issue not a team effort.

The long time union men no matter how good they have it they still see it as the man trying to screw them.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Good and Bad on both side of the fence. Better opportunity on this side though for the most part.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I'm not twisting anything up. Widestance already stated he wants the union to control my company.


And you said slavery was STILL a great idea so why you so against us owning you?....:thumbsup:

That is a tongue in cheek comment before someone wants to have a 3 page run with it BTW.....


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> A contractor that can't bid doesn't make money. That would defeat the whole purpose.


Correct.

If you can not bid a job, you can't make any money.
So, if a Merit shop is constantly winning bids against Union shops, the Union shops would need to eliminate the competition.

They have lots of tricks to do this. Some legal, some not.

One trick is to salt them with workers who intentionally screw up work costing the Merit shop money.

Another is having the supply houses to boycott them with materials.

Another is greasing the hands of the city Licensing and Inspections.


It's all business.

If the Unions really wanted any Merit Shop to become a Union shop and prosper, they would invite the business owners to lunch or something and sell them on their services, or offer to buy the company from the Merit Owner.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> And you said slavery was STILL a great idea so why you so against us owning you?....:thumbsup:....


I guess my sarcasm was lost on you.

My point is, I started my business for *my* benefit, not yours.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> My point is, I started my business for *my* benefit, not yours.



*WHAT!!!* are you serious?


You are a horrible, horrible ..... terrible person how dare you try to take care of yourself.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> *WHAT!!!* are you serious?
> 
> 
> You are a horrible, horrible ..... terrible person how dare you try to take care of yourself.


You don't get it, do you, Bob?

See, I want to be wildly successful.... you know, make millions in profit every fiscal quarter.

That way, I can give all that money to my hirelings. I want them to live in nice houses, drive new trucks and take vacations while I, as the business owner, live in squalor in a tar-paper shack, drive a 1986 GMC, and treat myself to a 'vacation' of stopping by the Kwik-E-Mart for a Slurpie.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You don't get it, do you, Bob?.



Actually I am not sure you got it. 

I was joking. :laughing:

You know I believe the owner takes the risks and should be rewarded for that.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> You know I believe the owner takes the risks and should be rewarded for that.


You sick sonofabitch. I'm on my way to your house with an inflatable rat. :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Actually I am not sure you got it.
> 
> I was joking. :laughing:.


I know you were.:yes:



Bob Badger said:


> You know I believe the owner takes the risks and should be rewarded for that.


Yes. And that reward should be being taken over by the union. They, of course, only have my best interest at heart. :laughing:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> You sick sonofabitch. I'm on my way to your house with an inflatable rat. :laughing:



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You can even plug it into the outlet on my porch.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> You can even plug it into the outlet on my porch.



What are you trying to do, kill him? We all know you wired that outlet, so sadistic mo-fu. No way can it be safe to even _stand_ on your porch, let alone use that outlet! :jester:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> What are you trying to do, kill him? We all know you wired that outlet, so sadistic mo-fu.


Shush, x-nay on the outlet-ay.

Don't let him know I swapped hot and ground.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> What are you trying to do, kill him? We all know you wired that outlet, so sadistic mo-fu. No way can it be safe to even _stand_ on your porch, let alone use that outlet! :jester:


 
Is that because Bob has no union training?


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Is that because Bob has no union training?


Itz just cause I ams wicked stupit.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> Is that because Bob has no union training?



Only toilet training. :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Shush, x-nay on the outlet-ay.
> 
> Don't let him know I swapped hot and ground.



You installed a *ground*? :001_huh: Man, I can't believe you wasted money on that shît. You could have paid your union dues instead!


----------



## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Well why not ask one of these Union Contractors if their shop grew or have they been reduced to squalor?Did their bid pool expand or decrease?....Of course there are undesirables mixed around in the Union, but I guess from the non-union perspective every hand you have met was a top notch employee ( I mean disregarding the ones that are willing to work for less than half the local rate....of course to a contractor they are the best)......I noticed last night in another thread a couple of you seemed to get all up in arms about a Florida contractor who was undercutting at a rate you can't compete with....why not combat that healthy competition by lowering your own rates a bit, I mean c'mon this is 'Merica dammit! Built on Free Enterprise!

And Dunkledorf...if you really believe what you are typing....then even you have to admit that those same contractors, supposedly screwed over by a salt, were to ignorant to realize that there are laws and many lawyers to protect them.

As said before if you are adamant about a salt only being out to destroy you and steal your crew with their voodoo....be aware of who you interview, that way you can turn them away and send them to your competitor down the street.....


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Only toilet training. :laughing:


 
Of the two types I perfer him have the toilet training.:laughing:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Widestance_Politics said:


> !
> 
> And Dunkledorf...if you really believe what you are typing....then even you have to admit that those same contractors, supposedly screwed over by a salt, were to ignorant to realize that there are laws and many lawyers to protect them.


Agree.

It is a tough racket to be in. 

You'll always have someone who wants what you built, all for them, and then you have to deal with lawyers who will drain you, just to protect what you built.

Business blows sometimes.

What ever happened to the handshake, and meaning it?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Widestance_Politics said:


> And Dunkledorf...if you really believe what you are typing....then even you have to admit that those same contractors, supposedly screwed over by a salt, were to ignorant to realize that there are laws and many lawyers to protect them.
> 
> As said before if you are adamant about a salt only being out to destroy you and steal your crew with their voodoo....be aware of who you interview, that way you can turn them away and send them to your competitor down the street.....


get a lawyer, you fool!


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> Business blows sometimes.
> What ever happened to the handshake, and meaning it?


Business blows all the time. Why not work where you make enough money such that you can put your mind on your work? Leave business to the executives and profit to the shareholders.

Handshakes don't mean sh1t to the GC. But they will smile at you all day long.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Business blows all the time. Why not work where you make enough money such that you can put your mind on your work? Leave business to the executives and profit to the shareholders.
> 
> Handshakes don't mean sh1t to the GC. But they will smile at you all day long.


Many more of my customers are good on a hand shake, then those I do not trust, it is the few (just as there are some workers) that suck and make al the additional paper work necessary.

But being a worker with your back ground I would expect a blanket statement like this.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Business blows all the time. Why not work where you make enough money such that you can put your mind on your work? Leave business to the executives and profit to the shareholders.


This is 50% bullsh*t. 

Business does not blow all the time. Not even close. :no:
What not work where YOU are the executive and shareholder yourself? I happen to like it that way. :thumbsup:


----------



## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Bob, it sounds like you were hit with fleas, not salts. I've worked with one guy who was a flea, and it is their avowed mission to cost the contractor as much money as humanly possible. They will never tell you they are fleas, and I can't see the union acknowledging their exsistence, but they are there. I can't see the point, really. Guys you're pretty sure or are sure are union making trouble, not producing, and generally being a pain in the a$$ doesn't reflect well.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

goose134 said:


> Bob, it sounds like you were hit with fleas, not salts.



I don't think we will find a rock solid definition of either salts or Fles. But I have never heard the term fle to describe what we had.

Here we call them salts if they are union members working at merit shops regardless if there intentions are good or bad.

Click here for 'FLE' information.

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f26/fle-question-6751/

http://www.cpcs.umb.edu/lrc/documents/22_1980_11_24_p5.pdf


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

goose134 said:


> I can't see the point, really. Guys you're pretty sure or are sure are union making trouble, not producing, and generally being a pain in the a$$ doesn't reflect well.


The intention of the kind of salt I have run into is not to produce a good impression of the union. The point is to cost the non-union company money plain and simple.

In my case the union had been trying to get the shop I worked for to go union for years, but the shop treated the guys well and we were happy so we did not want to go union.

After a while when they could not win us over they tried to cost the company money. 

Now obviously the link I post below has some bias, but try to read beyond the bias and then do some searching on the web yourself and I think you will find it is only union members who have good things to say about salts. 

http://www.fklaborlaw.com/articles/Union-Salting-Objectives.html


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> The intention of the kind of salt I have run into is not to produce a good impression of the union
> 
> http://www.fklaborlaw.com/articles/Union-Salting-Objectives.html


I only know of two salt operations and in both cases the intent of the salts was to cost the contractor money.

How these salts of a bitcxhes do not end up in a morque is beyond me. Salting is the same as stealing a mans tool. Cost time and money and slows down profits and production.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> I only know of two salt operations and in both cases the intent of the salts was to cost the contractor money.
> 
> How these salts of a bitcxhes do not end up in a morque is beyond me. Salting is the same as stealing a mans tool. Cost time and money and slows down profits and production.


 
Brian John I do not mean any disrespect but I have been a Salt in the past and have been through several classes on the objectives of Salting. Everything that I was taught or did was to show a good impression with the unions hope of the contractor wanting to sit down and discuss signing a contract after that said job was through.As far as stealing my tools, thats another case of you had rather jack off a wildcat in a phonebooth with a handfull of sandspurs.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Brian John I do not mean any disrespect but I have been a Salt in the past and have been through several classes on the objectives of Salting. Everything that I was taught or did was to show a good impression with the unions hope of the contractor wanting to sit down and discuss signing a contract after that said job was through.As far as stealing my tools, thats another case of you had rather jack off a wildcat in a phonebooth with a handfull of sandspurs.


So I guess because you say you have never seen it, the info on the web, the first hand experience I had and the experience Brain had must be untrue.

I think you choose to see what you want to see.


----------



## moman (Apr 15, 2010)

I have never seen salting get anything done 99% of the time.[/quote]
I like how things never happen 99% of the time


----------



## moman (Apr 15, 2010)

rudeboy said:


> first place come september and beyond, mark my words. Fathers and dodgers are gonna fall off. Only real worry is a co surge... Maybe, but i wouldn't put it past em.
> 
> Braves aint going to the playoffs, in case you're wondering.


go giants


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

moman said:


> I have never seen salting get anything done 99% of the time.


 1% is a start.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> find it beneficial that they can bid all the work they want and not have to worryabout manning the job.


This is completely false!!!!


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> So I guess because you say you have never seen it, the info on the web, the first hand experience I had and the experience Brain had must be untrue.
> 
> I think you choose to see what you want to see.


Bob I have heard of many things occurring of different jobs, I only posted what I experienced personally. With the times as hard as they are I think the unions are having a hard time keeping up with who does what(as far as those who are suppose to be Salting or not) Bob some of what I have been exposed too was unethical souls going out on their own in an effort to just make a quick buck with the excuse(a lie) that they were Salting. I have seen very little if any effect from Salting but the intention has always been of good will, we are even asking the contractors out to eat or play golf to show our good will. I came to this board with hopes of learning and to grow but this thread is a good example of truths being twisted and minds being warped about who said what.Bob you and I have had words but I have grown to respect your post (some times your out there) We do not have to be of the same color,creed, male or female or belong to the same church or even if one of us belongs to the IBEW and the other does'nt will this make us instant enemy's? Should it? Just from what I read in post on this board there are many here that are hard working ethical people that make their living in the electrical construction field, just as I try to.I believe there was a thread before that I posted we can get along, but WE have to make the effort.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

BDB said:


> This is completely false!!!!



Whats false about it? That's a huge advantage to know if you land a job needing 50 men you can just make a call. When the job is done you can then lay off 50 men. I see nothing false there.


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## fondini (Dec 22, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> he could of said, "Ah, you want fahk with you me-uh?"


 had a waitress ask me once "you want fahk?" I about pissed myself laughing! I did say yes but only got a fork. Back to the thread, if the local is the answer, why are you salting? All contractors want to make money and if it is such a great deal, wouldn't you be flooded with companies wanting to sign on?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Bob I have heard of many things occurring of different jobs, I only posted what I experienced personally. With the times as hard as they are I think the unions are having a hard time keeping up with who does what(as far as those who are suppose to be Salting or not) Bob some of what I have been exposed too was unethical souls going out on their own in an effort to just make a quick buck with the excuse(a lie) that they were Salting. I have seen very little if any effect from Salting but the intention has always been of good will, we are even asking the contractors out to eat or play golf to show our good will. I came to this board with hopes of learning and to grow but this thread is a good example of truths being twisted and minds being warped about who said what.Bob you and I have had words but I have grown to respect your post (some times your out there) We do not have to be of the same color,creed, male or female or belong to the same church or even if one of us belongs to the IBEW and the other does'nt will this make us instant enemy's? Should it? Just from what I read in post on this board there are many here that are hard working ethical people that make their living in the electrical construction field, just as I try to.I believe there was a thread before that I posted we can get along, but WE have to make the effort.


Bob, I'll save you the reading. :laughing:

To sum up... "Bob you are full of it. You promote hate and tell lies. I promote peace and harmony but ONLY if it is in MY best interest and agrees with MY philosphy. Any way other than my way is wrong. Any efforts to undermine a legitimate contractor that is not IBEW are just fairy tales. We can get along if only you would just view things MY way. blah blah blah....and yes I am a phony fruitcake"


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> Whats false about it? That's a huge advantage to know if you land a job needing 50 men you can just make a call. When the job is done you can then lay off 50 men. I see nothing false there.


I will tell you what is false about it. There is NO guarantee the hall will get you any men. We had a job and had a call in for 15 men took over a month to get anyone and to get the men we had to almost double the scale from what our agreement stated plus pay per diem. So no one can tell me the Union has the advantage by just calling the hall and getting how ever many men you want at any time.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Bob I have heard of many things occurring of different jobs, I only posted what I experienced personally. With the times as hard as they are I think the unions are having a hard time keeping up with who does what(as far as those who are suppose to be Salting or not) Bob some of what I have been exposed too was unethical souls going out on their own in an effort to just make a quick buck with the excuse(a lie) that they were Salting. I have seen very little if any effect from Salting but the intention has always been of good will, we are even asking the contractors out to eat or play golf to show our good will. I came to this board with hopes of learning and to grow but this thread is a good example of truths being twisted and minds being warped about who said what.Bob you and I have had words but I have grown to respect your post (some times your out there) We do not have to be of the same color,creed, male or female or belong to the same church or even if one of us belongs to the IBEW and the other does'nt will this make us instant enemy's? Should it? Just from what I read in post on this board there are many here that are hard working ethical people that make their living in the electrical construction field, just as I try to.I believe there was a thread before that I posted we can get along, but WE have to make the effort.



Maybe someday you will pull your head out of your sphincter long enough to see the world as it actually is but I sure am not going to count on that.:laughing:

Do you really think a post that obviously ignores reality is read and respected?

I can, and have admitted that I am sure there are some Salts that do not cause trouble. Now you should man up and admit that there are also salts whose intention is to cost the non-union companies money. Trying to deny that fact is like trying to deny the sun is hot.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> ......... Trying to deny that fact is like trying to deny the sun is hot.


Technically, on a stellar scale the sun is quite cool. In the entire range of stellar temperatures (2,500 - 60,000°K), the Sun is a rather chilly body at only 6,000.

But your analogy would be appropriate if you were to compare only the temperatures within our own solar system. In that case, yes the sun is hot.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Technically, on a stellar scale the sun is quite cool. In the entire range of stellar temperatures (2,500 - 60,000°K), the Sun is a rather chilly body at only 6,000.
> 
> But your analogy would be appropriate if you were to compare only the temperatures within our own solar system. In that case, yes the sun is hot.


And compared to some folks you are not an ass but I digress.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Bob, I'll save you the reading. :laughing:
> 
> To sum up... "Bob you are full of it. You promote hate and tell lies. I promote peace and harmony but ONLY if it is in MY best interest and agrees with MY philosphy. Any way other than my way is wrong. Any efforts to undermine a legitimate contractor that is not IBEW are just fairy tales. We can get along if only you would just view things MY way. blah blah blah....and yes I am a phony fruitcake"


Eman you are at least predictable,I only wished I could be as steady as you. Bob Once back in the early 90's I heard of a negative campaign against the nonunioin contractors but EVERYTHING that is coming down from our IO now is to be on time ready to work do a good job and if the opportunity arrives make an invite for a game of golf and or out to eat in an effort to break the ice from years of hate from both sides.There is no need for us to ever agree in order to post in polite way instead of a childish, negative manner.I personally see faults in both union and nonunion way of doing business some of which has not even been brought up yet.Please do not stress to hard, we are top side today, enjoy life.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Widestance_Politics said:


> And regarding Bob's comment, if a shop truly treats his employees well why would they vote against him? I know three guys that work for BERG in Oregon and you would never get those guys to vote against the shop. .


Let me guess. RT, Jim , and Dase?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> No dirty tricks, nothing, just did my job.
> 
> Unfortunately for them, they can't find the help they need on the street.
> 
> So is the way of specialty work.


Tosser.
:laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

moman said:


> I have never seen salting get anything done 99% of the time.


I like how things never happen 99% of the time[/quote]


It is a union job 99% of wasted effort is good.:laughing::laughing:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Brother Noah said:


> Eman you are at least predictable,I only wished I could be as steady as you. Bob Once back in the early 90's I heard of a negative campaign against the nonunioin contractors but EVERYTHING that is coming down from our IO now is to be on time ready to work do a good job and if the opportunity arrives make an invite for a game of golf and or out to eat in an effort to break the ice from years of hate from both sides.There is no need for us to ever agree in order to post in polite way instead of a childish, negative manner.I personally see faults in both union and nonunion way of doing business some of which has not even been brought up yet.Please do not stress to hard, we are top side today, enjoy life.


Have you EVER posted anything but un-readable pro union jibberish?

Nevermind sorry I contibuted to re surfacing an old thread


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