# Hacky or not???



## Supfoolitschris (Jan 29, 2013)

I was wiring several flourescent lites together and this is how i always do my grounds. Just strip about 2" of insulation back and wrap it around the ground screw so u dont have to cut the wire. Then i got to thinkin. How does everyone else do it?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I do the same but I use solid wire in that situation


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## Supfoolitschris (Jan 29, 2013)

Yea i normaly do too but stranded is all they had on this job


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Mass. says all connections under a wire binding screw must be made solid. Whatever I've got to achieve that is the method I'll use.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Nothing hack about it imo.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Seen the 360° wraps cause solid wires to break at the cross-over. Not a fan.

I don't think it'd be a problem with stranded.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Supfoolitschris said:


> I was wiring several flourescent lites together and this is how i always do my grounds. Just strip about 2" of insulation back and wrap it around the ground screw so u dont have to cut the wire. Then i got to thinkin. How does everyone else do it?


I've never been a huge fan of wrapping stranded wire under any binding screw . The natural clockwise tightening wants to always push the strands out from under the screw . If all they had was stranded , I'd either use a ground tail and a wire nut , or sta-kons if they were available ? If you had brass cup washers with the screws , you'd be golden . I personally wouldn't make then up that way , but I've seen way worse stuff than that over the years . What does your foreman say ?


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

drumnut08 said:


> I've never been a huge fan of wrapping stranded wire under any binding screw . The natural clockwise tightening wants to always push the strands out from under the screw.


A good tip to stop the strands from pushing out is to twist the wire strands in opposite direction.

Hope you can understand what I mean.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

forgotflying said:


> A good tip to stop the strands from pushing out is to twist the wire strands in opposite direction.
> 
> Hope you can understand what I mean.


I understand and have done that , but don't think it's too easy to do if its a length of continuous run . I've done it for terminations on breakers and it works well .


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

Stak-ons are definitely the way to go for terminating stranded under a wrap around screw. If I'm in a jam I skin the wire close to the end of it and push the insulation back instead of completely off. Then I twist the wire in the posited direction and wrap around the screw....
You should have some insulation sticking past the screw. Can you guys picture what I'm trying to say???


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Big John said:


> Seen the 360° wraps cause solid wires to break at the cross-over. Not a fan.
> 
> I don't think it'd be a problem with stranded.


With solid I would not do a 360 I would do a 358 no overlap.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I'd crimp on a fork connector.


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## MattHelm (Nov 12, 2011)

If it is a dead end, I crimp a spade or wirenut a solid pigtail. If it is in the middle, I loop it like you do.


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## Shane B (Feb 24, 2013)

Supfoolitschris said:


> I was wiring several flourescent lites together and this is how i always do my grounds. Just strip about 2" of insulation back and wrap it around the ground screw so u dont have to cut the wire. Then i got to thinkin. How does everyone else do it?


As long as it's a solid connection there's nothing wrong. No different then using a bond bushing.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I use solid so that's never an issue.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

thegoldenboy said:


> Mass. says all connections under a wire binding screw must be made solid. Whatever I've got to achieve that is the method I'll use.


Not entirely true, there is an 'or' in there.



> 110.14(A). Delete the last sentence of the first paragraph and insert the following two sentences in its place:
> 
> Connection by means of wire binding screws or studs and nuts having upturned lugs or equivalent shall be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller solid conductors. Where stranded conductors are terminated on and not looped through such terminals, the terminals shall be identified for such use, or the strands at the terminals shall be made solid.


So if looping like the OP, or if identified for stranded, and most are, there is no need to make them solid.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wendon said:


> I'd crimp on a fork connector.


In my opinion you are adding potential failure points for the sake of looks.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> In my opinion you are adding potential failure points for the sake of looks.


Not with this :no::no::no:


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

With solid I bend it in a u shape. With stranded I strip it and fold it use a Stakon and continue.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wendon said:


> Not with this :no::no::no:


Yes even with that.

As the OP has done it even if it were to fall off the grounding still continues to the next equipment 

On the other hand if you use two forks, or one fork on a pigtail and anything comes apart you loose the grounding down the line.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

wendon said:


> I'd crimp on a fork connector.


same here far more secure and professional


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

It's a cheap light fixture, not worth wasting crimps and having to haul another tool with you.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> It's a cheap light fixture, not worth wasting crimps and having to haul another tool with you.


Another tool? I use the crimped on my linesmans


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

So you are making no better of a connection then wrapping the wire.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> So you are making no better of a connection then wrapping the wire.


No. What's wrong with using these to crimp the connectors. I crimp everything with these


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

JoeKP said:


> I crimp everything with these


Exactly.


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## Grogan14 (Jul 16, 2009)

As with others, I would have pigtailed a piece of solid, or used a Sta-Kon. 




JoeKP said:


> I crimp everything with these


Even Buchanan crimp sleeves?


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Grogan14 said:


> Even Buchanan crimp sleeves?


Not as often as stakons


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Yes even with that.
> 
> As the OP has done it even if it were to fall off the grounding still continues to the next equipment
> 
> On the other hand if you use two forks, or one fork on a pigtail and anything comes apart you loose the grounding down the line.


Wrapping stranded around a ground screw is Cletis hack in my opinion. You have to pigtail the other wires to connect to your ballast disconnect why not the ground. One yellow fork connector and the two wires are connected properly.:whistling2:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wendon said:


> Wrapping stranded around a ground screw is Cletis hack in my opinion. You have to pigtail the other wires to connect to your ballast disconnect why not the ground. One yellow fork connector and the two wires are connected properly.:whistling2:


To each their own, I do it all the time, I am much more concerned with how well something works over how it looks.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> No. What's wrong with using these to crimp the connectors. I crimp everything with these


It is an NEC violtion unless that tool is listed on the box of crimps.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

You guys would honestly waste time cutting, stripping, twisting on a pigtail, and then crimping a fork for a fluorescent light? Yikes. This is the same crowd that talks sh*t about Rotosplits because they "take too long". :laughing:

I don't go 360 degrees around the ground screw with stranded, I split the strands so that half go on one side of the ground screw and half on the other side. Effectively creating a "hole" in the middle of the wire through which the screw goes. Prevents any strands from escaping and doesn't create any stress points.


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## ed-flip (Feb 13, 2013)

do you guys wrap stranded on receptacles?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> It is an NEC violtion unless that tool is listed on the box of crimps.


oh get outta here with chit already bob. :laughing:


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## ed-flip (Feb 13, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> oh get outta here with chit already bob. :laughing:


technically the crimper on your lineman's is for non insulated terminals only.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

ed-flip said:


> technically the crimper on your lineman's is for non insulated terminals only.


i know, i don't have a linemans with a crimper on it. i use a klein high leverage crimper. which technically is against the rules because i doubt its UL listed with anybodys terminals


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## ed-flip (Feb 13, 2013)

I personally like to crimp terminals on stranded wire, mainly because being in service like myself, i open tons of box's with stranded wrapped around receptacles or my absolute favorite bell box ground screws, That are all frayed out and barely held on by 3 strands.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> oh get outta here with chit already bob. :laughing:


I did not say I have not broken that rule but the fact remains it is a violtion. 

Sorry if knowledge upsets you. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ed-flip said:


> do you guys wrap stranded on receptacles?


Of course, they are listed for stranded and solid. They are not tested or listed for fork or ring terminals. 

Again, pointing out the rules, not telling anyone what to do.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ed-flip said:


> technically the crimper on your lineman's is for non insulated terminals only.


Technically you can only use a crimping tool approved by the manufacturer of the crimps, insulated or not.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Technically you can only use a crimping tool approved by the manufacturer of the crimps, insulated or not.


Ok , so the back of a package of T and B sta-kons is going to tell you to use which crimper ? The one T and B makes of course . Same as ideal or panduit too , I'm sure ? This Is one way to end up with a large collection of crimping tools that all do the same thing IMO , lol . For the record the ratcheting ideal crimp master is still my favorite .


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

drumnut08 said:


> Ok , so the back of a package of T and B sta-kons is going to tell you to use which crimper ?


Or you may have to ask / look up the info.

Code wise small crimps are treated exactly the same way as large crimps and in each case you must use the tool / die that is specifically listed for use with a specific crimp. 

Again, just pointing out the rules, what each of us does is up to us ... or maybe an inspector.:jester:


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Or you may have to ask / look up the info.
> 
> Code wise small crimps are treated exactly the same way as large crimps and in each case you must use the tool / die that is specifically listed for use with a specific crimp.
> 
> Again, just pointing out the rules, what each of us does is up to us ... or maybe an inspector.:jester:


I'm not disputing you , but I question how many of us are going to give this a second thought now when making our next small crimp connection ? I'd still prefer a good crimp terminal on the end of stranded, rather than wrapping it around a screw . I'd mind terminating stranded under a screw less , if the screw had a larger shoulder on it ( like a welded on washer ) or a brass cup washer that contains all the strands . To each his own and in this case it's a continuous ground , so I'd probably do the same thing he is , unless I was instructed otherwise ?


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## highleg (May 11, 2013)

The Buchanan crimp sleeves list 4 or 5 different crimpers that you can use with them. One is that 4-way crimper, the others are normal Ideal crimpers and linemen pliers with the little crimp die like the Klein posted earlier has. So if you tell the inspector that you used that specific model Ideal lineman plier to make the crimps, he would have no way to tell if it was done with Klein or any other brand.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

highleg said:


> So if you tell the inspector that you used that specific model Ideal lineman plier to make the crimps, he would have no way to tell if it was done with Klein or any other brand.


I have never had one ask me, not once.

But if one did I would answer honestly even if that meant a fail


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

I as a competent person feel that my linesmans give me the best connection so that is what I will continue to use!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

JoeKP said:


> I as a competent person feel that my linesmans give me the best connection so that is what I will continue to use!


The picture of the underground work you were doing says you are not. :no:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

drumnut08 said:


> I'm not disputing you ,


Sorry if I came off as a jerk, that was what I was trying to avoid.

Just passing on the info, I use the crimper I have with what ever crimps I have.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

BBQ said:


> The picture of the underground work you were doing says you are not. :no:


How so. That box is accessible and the rest of the pipe is at the correct height. I used 4 45degree connectors to raise the box then drop it again.


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## highleg (May 11, 2013)

BBQ said:


> I have never had one ask me, not once.
> 
> *But if one did I would answer honestly even if that meant a fail*


And that, in itself, is a giant fail :whistling2::thumbup:


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Sorry if I came off as a jerk, that was what I was trying to avoid.
> 
> Just passing on the info, I use the crimper I have with what ever crimps I have.


You didn't come off as a jerk bob , lol ! I understand your point completely , but most of us will continue to do what we've been doing . Besides , I always give the connection the pull test . If it doesn't come off in my hand , it works for me .


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

BBQ said:


> I have never had one ask me, not once.
> 
> But if one did I would answer honestly even if that meant a fail


A few years back we had an inspector attempt to fail a job because of crimping.
He thought that my helper had used the jaws of the Kleins.
We had to literally show him on new crimp sleeves that the indentions on the installed crimp sleeves matched up with the crimpers he used.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

highleg said:


> And that, in itself, is a giant fail :whistling2::thumbup:


There are few things one can claim as their own, integrity is one of them.


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## highleg (May 11, 2013)

BBQ said:


> There are few things one can claim as their own, integrity is one of them.


So you've never lied to an inspector? You've never lied to anyone, right?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

highleg said:


> So you've never lied to an inspector?


Not that I can recall ..... really.

I may be guilty of not offering info they did not ask for but if they ask me a direct question I give them a direct answer



> You've never lied to anyone, right?


I wish I could say yes to that but I cannot.

Regardless I feel lying is one of the least 'manly' things a man can do.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I have never had one ask me, not once.


I have, UL inspectors, electrical inspectors, client QA inspectors and engineers. 


Do I still use my Klien 1005? Yeah I do, but I also use the crap out of our many proper ratchet crimpers.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

drspec said:


> A few years back we had an inspector attempt to fail a job because of crimping.
> He thought that my helper had used the jaws of the Kleins.
> We had to literally show him on new crimp sleeves that the indentions on the installed crimp sleeves matched up with the crimpers he used.


Wow ! That's rare , but then again every inspector has there pet peeve . There could be a million things wrong everywhere else , but that crimp better have been made with a crimp tool and not linemans , lol ! I had an inspector years ago that made the plumber , fitter and sprinkler guy install drip pans anywhere their piping was running over our equipment . It was a matter of we were where we had to be ( no choice ) they're piping didn't have to take the route it did in most cases . That was his thing though .


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

I'd of skinned it waaay less and turned screw counterclockwise, other than that its fine and makes the most logical sense and practicality.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

On the subject of which crimper to use, I was working in Collier County Florida (Naples) back in mid seventies and they (electrical inspectors) only allowed 4 point buchanon (sp) crimpers and same brand copper tubes. No wire nuts for the grounds allowed. 
All sparkies on the job were required by the company I worked for to pack a pair while working anywhere around Naples. Don't have any idea what is required around that neck of the woods nowadays.


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## Alhenry92 (Sep 14, 2012)

i wouldve made a pigtail with a scrap piece of solid. Either way its grounded


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