# Friendly reminder for the red seal grant



## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

If you've changed levels (or have worked a minimum amount of set hours in a year in Quebec) don't forget to claim your Red Seal grant!

Men get 1,000$ per level (for two levels maximum) and then 2000$ when you become a journeyman

Women have a special grant to try to get more women in the trades, it's 3000$ per year (for two levels maximum) and then 2000$ when they advance to journeyman level. 

There's a time limit and they do NOT backdate if you miss it. You have just under a month after sending in your online application to send in your required documents. 

:glasses:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

What if I identify as a female ??? Do I get the extra cash ?? :biggrin:


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

emtnut said:


> What if I identify as a female ??? Do I get the extra cash ?? :biggrin:


Actually I think they ask that you identify as female, I don't know how they'd go about investigating that! lain:


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

@Martine your profile says you joined a little over 2 years ago, but also says you're a first year... are you still a first year apprentice?

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> @Martine your profile says you joined a little over 2 years ago, but also says you're a first year... are you still a first year apprentice?
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


I joined when I was a student. In Quebec we have to do 1800 hours of schooling (about a year and a half) before ever stepping on a job site. I’d also be a 2nd year by now but I’m pregnant and not working. I have under 300 hours left to be a 2nd year, so I’ll be doing that once I’m done my maternity leave (which is pretty long in Canada, haha)


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Martine said:


> I joined when I was a student. In Quebec we have to do 1800 hours of schooling (about a year and a half) before ever stepping on a job site.


Ah, that's interesting to know. Glad I didn't have to do that here in Ontario.


> I’d also be a 2nd year by now but I’m pregnant and not working. I have under 300 hours left to be a 2nd year, so I’ll be doing that once I’m done my maternity leave (which is pretty long in Canada, haha)


Oooo, a child. Stay safe during this pandemic. Hopefully the curve has started to flatten by the time he/she/they/it/howevertheyidentify is born. I take it you went on maternity leave before this whole pandemic started? Sounds like you dogged a bullet there...


Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Ah, that's interesting to know. Glad I didn't have to do that here in Ontario.
> 
> Oooo, a child. Stay safe during this pandemic. Hopefully the curve has started to flatten by the time he/she/they/it/howevertheyidentify is born. I take it you went on maternity leave before this whole pandemic started? Sounds like you dogged a bullet there...
> 
> ...


I got put on preventative leave due to the workplace dangers, we have a special program for pregnant women in Quebec.

And honestly I’ve left my house once in the last 2 weeks and I’m going a little stir crazy but I’m doing ok! And as for the schooling, Im glad I had some kind of knowledge of HOW things work before stepping on a job site, even though it was very basic and obviously kept learning a lot of stuff. I *could* have gone the other route and not went to school if I had found an employer wanting to hire and train me, but only because I’m a woman. I don’t know the English term but we have “bassins” when there’s a lack of workers that people can apply without having done the schooling, and then have to do a route Similar to Ontario, and they’re not open very often at all unless you’re in a less populated area that doesn’t have enough workers. They made it that for women the “bassins” are always open though. I didn’t want to do that and wanted to do it the same way as any guy would have had to do it, so that’s what I did.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I think my wife has it tougher than I do right now, because I can go to work still. I can get out during the day. The kids are home with her and though they are allowed to go places there really isn't much to do. My oldest is doing remote learning from junior highschool and my guess is that will go to the end of the school year at this point. Probably wise as the worst hasn't made it's way from either Boston or New York. Hopefully you can get back to work soon or when the time is right. Been streaming a lot of shows to keep entertained. Things could be worse and I don't know anyone locally that has this yet. Stay sane and things will get better.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

nrp3 said:


> I think my wife has it tougher than I do right now, because I can go to work still. I can get out during the day. The kids are home with her and though they are allowed to go places there really isn't much to do. My oldest is doing remote learning from junior highschool and my guess is that will go to the end of the school year at this point. Probably wise as the worst hasn't made it's way from either Boston or New York. Hopefully you can get back to work soon or when the time is right. Been streaming a lot of shows to keep entertained. Things could be worse and I don't know anyone locally that has this yet. Stay sane and things will get better.


I was pulled out of work way before the pandemic, since January to be precise. :smile: They consider working higher than 3 steps on a ladder a danger that's worth being pulled out for to give you an idea. So I'm pulled out until September, and then I have maternity leave for a year (it's a lot longer in Canada), so I won't be working for a while either way. My partner isn't working either, even though he's considered an essential service as a carpenter depending on the job, because his boss doesn't want him to risk bringing it home to me since they're not 100% sure what effect the virus could have on a fetus. (They don't think there's any risk so far, but you never really know with these things)

And absolutely, I'm sure your wife is going a little stir crazy too. The lack of human interaction is exhausting. I'm glad you guys are healthy and doing ok though!


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## Cosmorok (Jun 3, 2019)

Bassins de main-d'œuvre are labour pools I believe, I'm translating pretty literal though so maybe there is a different term. I don't think Ontario has anything like that, we do have OYAP(Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program) though, it starts in either grade 11 or 12 and the student has a chance to become an apprentice while getting their high school diploma.

Also, good reminder to get your grant money because it's very easy to not spend ten minutes and fill out the info to get it, silly reason not to get 1000$.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I have heard some dumb things out of the Great White North but this is not only the DUMBEST but it seems Canada is also discriminating against men.


And they increase your taxes to give yourself a bonus. 

BUILD THE WALL.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

brian john said:


> I have heard some dumb things out of the Great White North but this is not only the DUMBEST but it seems Canada is also discriminating against men.
> 
> 
> And they increase your taxes to give yourself a bonus.
> ...


You don't need a wall to keep out all the Canadians that aren't clamouring to come to your ridiculous country.

Also, she's taking about Québec; these programs aren't identical across the country. This relates to points 99 raised in the other thread about national licensing. You can have national licensing (as we do) without everything else being exactly the same. 

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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

brian john said:


> I have heard some dumb things out of the Great White North but this is not only the DUMBEST but it seems Canada is also discriminating against men.
> 
> 
> And they increase your taxes to give yourself a bonus.
> ...


Quebec likes to take care of their own. Settle down.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

The grants are from the federal government and are national, not only in Quebec.

An no they are not discriminatory. There are very few women in trades (maybe 2%?) so this was put in to try and boost that. The idea being there will be a major shortage of people in trades so getting women in will help. There are other incentives available for others like aboriginals.

There was no grant at all for anyone when I went to trade school.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I guess there is not enough motivation to get to work so the government has to encourage you to work? Better than sitting on welfare but to pay every apprentice money and women more is beyond dumb.

Is there a shortage of apprentices?

Is there a minimum I have pay apprentices otherwise I could pay less as the government supplements their income.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

brian john said:


> I guess there is not enough motivation to get to work so the government has to encourage you to work? Better than sitting on welfare but to pay every apprentice money and women more is beyond dumb.


I agree.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

eddy current said:


> There was no grant at all for anyone when I went to trade school.


Me either, although I seem to recall some sort of tool allowance or something like that. On the other hand, it did not cost us (me) anything to go to school either...

When I did trade school, we got a special EI rate (think it was called UI at the time) and (higher than normal), did not pay any sort of tuition, was paid a mileage allowance to drive (over a certain distance) and all books, parking, etc was covered.

Trade school was also 4 terms, basic, intermediate, advanced and post-advanced. To "graduate" you had to a current standard first aid certificate which was part of the apprenticeship program.

Cheers
John


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

brian john said:


> Is there a minimum I have pay apprentices otherwise I could pay less as the government supplements their income.


There is. Here in Ontario our minimum wage is $14/h and the apprentice is supposed to be paid a % of a journeyman pay. I'm not sure the rates, but that's how it's supposed to be done. 

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

99cents said:


> Quebec likes to take care of their own. Settle down.


We look upon our own with suspicion and resentment down here.

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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

eddy current said:


> The grants are from the federal government and are national, not only in Quebec.
> 
> An no they are not discriminatory. There are very few women in trades (maybe 2%?) so this was put in to try and boost that. The idea being there will be a major shortage of people in trades so getting women in will help. There are other incentives available for others like aboriginals.
> 
> There was no grant at all for anyone when I went to trade school.


It's a whopping 3% actually.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

brian john said:


> I guess there is not enough motivation to get to work so the government has to encourage you to work? Better than sitting on welfare but to pay every apprentice money and women more is beyond dumb.
> 
> Is there a shortage of apprentices?
> 
> Is there a minimum I have pay apprentices otherwise I could pay less as the government supplements their income.


It's supposed to help cover tools and other things you need to buy, as our deductions actually make it that a 1st year apprentice makes less than minimum wage. 

So it's not to convince them to work, it's to try to get them to stay in construction when they have a hard time paying bills and want to do another job that would pay more. 

As for paying women extra more or not, they have grants for many other people in many other situations, they've taken other measures to get women into the trades that don't have anything to do with money. It's just something extra they came up with.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> There is. Here in Ontario our minimum wage is $14/h and the apprentice is supposed to be paid a % of a journeyman pay. I'm not sure the rates, but that's how it's supposed to be done.
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


In Quebec it's a little different, everyone makes a set amount that's set by the CCQ if you're working anything but a few select jobs (industrial, renovations, etc)

otherwise, you've got a set salary that the employer has no say on.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

Thing I came here to do: remind apprentices to redeem a grant they're eligible for
Thing I did not come here to do: discuss or argue the discrimination against men


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Martine said:


> Thing I came here to do: remind apprentices to redeem a grant they're eligible for
> Thing I did not come here to do: discuss or argue the discrimination against men


I understand your point but when you put something in a public forum all takers get a shot. But you do not need to defend or argue the rules in your area.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eddy current said:


> The grants are from the federal government and are national, not only in Quebec.
> 
> An no they are not discriminatory. There are very few women in trades (maybe 2%?) so this was put in to try and boost that. The idea being there will be a major shortage of people in trades so getting women in will help. There are other incentives available for others like aboriginals.
> 
> There was no grant at all for anyone when I went to trade school.


Why do we need more women in the trades or better yet why artificially encourage them with monetary enhancements?

Not sure how it works her NOW, but we had a much higher fall rate among women over men in the apprenticeship.

We have apprenticeship programs the contractors pay for the schooling and apprentices make a base pay with raises every 6 months as a percentage of a journeyman's pay.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

brian john said:


> Why do we need more women in the trades or better yet why artificially encourage them with monetary enhancements?
> 
> Not sure how it works her NOW, but we had a much higher fall rate among women over men in the apprenticeship.


The ratio of how many women who stay in construction after a few years VS. men is quite drastic. 

As I said previously, the grant is one of many many things, including the government reimbursing 30% of a woman's salary for the first year to an employer (on the condition that the 2 day course I'm going to mention is completed), not being counted in the apprentice/journeyman ratio, a paid 2 day course how to properly integrate women into a team, etc. 

To a certain extent I don't understand why they're giving more money to women for the grant other than an incentive to convince women to stay the course and keep going, and I do understand your view in it being more of a bribe than anything. That being said, I won't refuse an extra 2 grand being offered to me. 

As for WHY they want more women in the trades, is like why they made an effort to add an equal amount of men and women to the Prime Minister's cabinet, and they want to see more women enter the trades workforce. It's a well paying career and in Quebec we have great insurance with the CCQ (they covered my 800$ genetic testing 100% for my pregnancy and 95$ with no deductible for my medication, to give you an idea), a good retirement fund, and a much higher salary than the average Canadian woman. It's good for the economy, and it's good for women's lives and careers.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Incentives may have been necessary when the trades were run by cavemen but I live in a ******* province and even here nobody cares anymore. Any guy who complains about a woman on site risks going head first into the dumpster. 

I had one female apprentice who was a know-it-all because she took a pre-apprenticeship program for women. She didn’t know it all and wasn’t very good so she never got called back. I had another who was great. She worked in her father’s shop from the time she was a kid. Just like guys, you get good ones and bad ones.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Martine said:


> It's good for the economy, and it's good for women's lives and careers.


It's not really any better for the economy, the economy does not know which gender the electrician identifies as.

It is better for women, which should be enough encouragement to get eager and ambitious women out there. The taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing it.


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

99cents said:


> Incentives may have been necessary when the trades were run by cavemen but I live in a ******* province and even here nobody cares anymore. Any guy who complains about a woman on site risks going head first into the dumpster.
> 
> I had one female apprentice who was a know-it-all because she took a pre-apprenticeship program for women. She didn’t know it all and wasn’t very good so she never got called back. I had another who was great. She worked in her father’s shop from the time she was a kid. Just like guys, you get good ones and bad ones.


Oh I don't doubt that one bit, I've actually never heard of a pre-apprenticeship program for women. I did my 1800 hours with the guys. I think anyone who shows up with a know it all attitude is digging their own grave with an employer


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> Martine said:
> 
> 
> > The ratio of how many women who stay in construction after a few years VS. men is quite drastic.
> ...


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Think of it this way. 

Imagine a Skilled trade that is dominated by women and in the near future it is projected that there will be a big shortage of workers. There is not enough women getting into this imaginary trade so the government provides incentives to try and get men to join in hopes that it will help with the shortage. 


But it is not a big deal and it is not working. There are still very few women getting into trades so the minimal grant money going out is not an issue


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eddy current said:


> Think of it this way.
> 
> Imagine a Skilled trade that is dominated by women and in the near future it is projected that there will be a big shortage of workers. There is not enough women getting into this imaginary trade so the government provides incentives to try and get men to join in hopes that it will help with the shortage.


That makes absolutely no sense to me. 

Why segregate it into genders? If they need more workers, give incentives for new workers. 

The military does it with bigger enlistment bonuses and other benefits when they need more soldiers. Many industries offer free or less expensive education or training to get thru labor shortages. 

But to give those extras to someone based on their gender is ludicrous, and prejudice.


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

Could make a career out of Maternity leave , 50 weeks per child, work about eight years and twelve kids,...


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

Wardenclyffe said:


> Could make a career out of Maternity leave , 50 weeks per child, work about eight years and twelve kids,...


you'd need to have enough insurable hours between maternity leaves, and also considering that for the majority of the maternity leave the salary is about half of what a normal salary would be, and you need to support said children, the costs would add up quite quickly, but yes, in theory a woman could spend a large part of her working life at home raising children. 

In Quebec you could also have the father take 10 months off to take care of said child instead of the mother (men get 5 weeks paid leave and parents can decide who stays home after maternity leave ends and parental leave starts, they're two separate things)

So a man could also make a career out of paternity leave.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

HackWork said:


> That makes absolutely no sense to me.
> 
> Why segregate it into genders? If they need more workers, give incentives for new workers.
> 
> ...


It's called leveling the playing field. Women were actively DIScouraged, first from entering the workforce at all, then later from taking certain jobs perceived as being "for men". So there's work to be done to break those stereotypes, and to encourage women to pursue those jobs. They also still face more barriers to entering many of these fields than men, be it because of workplace culture, or even something as simple as being provided their own washroom (I know many larger sites do have them now but it's a relatively recent change). Also, women still statistically make less than men, and they have expenses we don't have (menstrual products for example, and things like cosmetics and birth control which are optional but more or less societally expected). There is an important difference between equality and equity.









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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

B-Nabs said:


> It's called leveling the playing field. Women were actively DIScouraged, first from entering the workforce at all, then later from taking certain jobs perceived as being "for men". So there's work to be done to break those stereotypes, and to encourage women to pursue those jobs. They also still face more barriers to entering many of these fields than men, be it because of workplace culture, or even something as simple as being provided their own washroom (I know many larger sites do have them now but it's a relatively recent change). Also, women still statistically make less than men, and they have expenses we don't have (menstrual products for example, and things like cosmetics and birth control which are optional but more or less societally expected). There is an important difference between equality and equity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd give you ten likes if I could.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> It's called leveling the playing field. Women were actively DIScouraged, first from entering the workforce at all, then later from taking certain jobs perceived as being "for men". So there's work to be done to break those stereotypes, and to encourage women to pursue those jobs. They also still face more barriers to entering many of these fields than men, be it because of workplace culture, or even something as simple as being provided their own washroom (I know many larger sites do have them now but it's a relatively recent change). Also, women still statistically make less than men, and they have expenses we don't have (menstrual products for example, and things like cosmetics and birth control which are optional but more or less societally expected). There is an important difference between equality and equity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is completely different than what Eddy said.

As for what you said, I don’t believe in using sexism or racism in order to try to right a far gone wrong.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> It's called leveling the playing field. Women were actively DIScouraged, first from entering the workforce at all, then later from taking certain jobs perceived as being "for men". So there's work to be done to break those stereotypes, and to encourage women to pursue those jobs. They also still face more barriers to entering many of these fields than men, be it because of workplace culture, or even something as simple as being provided their own washroom (I know many larger sites do have them now but it's a relatively recent change). Also, women still statistically make less than men, and they have expenses we don't have (menstrual products for example, and things like cosmetics and birth control which are optional but more or less societally expected). There is an important difference between equality and equity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So the barrier is cash ?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don’t know what to say anymore. Women have to buy tampons and make up so we have to give them special government handouts. 

The worst part about this is that the people who make and support these programs are the ones disparaging women. They are treating them like feeble minded idiots. It’s 2020, all women know that they are equal and could do any job they want. You don’t have to treat them like halfwits and entice them with bait.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

emtnut said:


> So the barrier is cash ?


No, the barrier is systemic. Cash is an example of an attempt at the "equity" shown in the middle of the picture I posted above. Removing systemic barriers takes a lot of time and work and societal change, and so attempts at equity are a first step toward that kind of change. Ideally, one day everyone can "see through the fence", and we won't need to give people "bigger risers" to have the same opportunities. But until that time, these kinds of programs play an important role in moving all of us forward together. 

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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I don’t know what to say anymore. Women have to buy tampons and make up so we have to give them special government handouts.
> 
> The worst part about this is that the people who make and support these programs are the ones disparaging women. They are treating them like feeble minded idiots. It’s 2020, all women know that they are equal and could do any job they want. You don’t have to treat them like halfwits and entice them with bait.


This opens another can of worms that I already know we don't agree on, but let's talk about how we "have to give [women] special government handouts" because they have to buy menstrual products. In my opinion, these should be covered as part of a universal healthcare system, as they are necessary healthcare items. And if they were, and if other societal barriers to equity were removed, we wouldn't have to give cash handouts to try to make up for the disparity. But you don't believe in universal healthcare, so there you go. 

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> No, the barrier is systemic. Cash is an example of an attempt at the "equity" shown in the middle of the picture I posted above. Removing systemic barriers takes a lot of time and work and societal change, and so attempts at equity are a first step toward that kind of change. Ideally, one day everyone can "see through the fence", and we won't need to give people "bigger risers" to have the same opportunities. But until that time, these kinds of programs play an important role in moving all of us forward together.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


I could make a really awesome sandwich with your post. I would fry it up and add a little cheese and mustard.

The barriers that you speak of are long gone. Now it’s just pandering to the voters with feel-good BS. The patriarchy Mansplaining to the feeble minded women that they can do it to :vs_laugh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> This opens another can of worms that I already know we don't agree on, but let's talk about how we "have to give [women] special government handouts" because they have to buy menstrual products. In my opinion, these should be covered as part of a universal healthcare system, as they are necessary healthcare items. And if they were, and if other societal barriers to equity were removed, we wouldn't have to give cash handouts to try to make up for the disparity. But you don't believe in universal healthcare, so there you go.


If women should get handouts to cover tampons and make up, then men should get handouts to cover always having to pay for dinner and buy gifts while dating women.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> If women should get handouts to cover tampons and make up, then men should get handouts to cover always having to pay for dinner and buy gifts while dating women.


Forgot my wallet on the first date with my wife, so....

Not to mention that I took her to a fancy restaurant before I realized my wallet was in my truck several blocks away.

And I couldn't pronounce prosciutto, I had to ask "What is Prosecute "O"?"

And why did that waiter want to place a napkin on my lap?

Yeah, I grew up poor, uneducated and ignorant. Not at all like her, so she paid for our first date.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

HackWork said:


> The barriers that you speak of are long gone.


No, they're not. But I don't actually care what you believe, and I don't feel like expending the energy arguing with you about it.



HackWork said:


> If women should get handouts to cover tampons and make up, then men should get handouts to cover always having to pay for dinner and buy gifts while dating women.


a) Men don't always have to pay for everything. That is an example of how the patriarchy also governs society's expectations of men. You see, feminism isn't simply about women's rights, it is about human rights. Men benefit from a release from traditional gender-based expectations and rules as well as women.

b) The idea that men should pay for those things is tied to the historical subjugation of women, their essential "ownership" by first their fathers and then their husbands. They didn't have any assets so of course the men had to pay. Today this idea is just a holdover of that outdated paradigm.

OK go ahead and tell me all my ideas are sandwich meat and I'm a liberal cuck. 

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## Max C. (Sep 29, 2016)

Look boys and girls, we could fling sh!t at each other over the issue all day long, however Martine's original post was simply a reminder about grants.

Regarding the political-side of this, there's plenty of room in the Controversial Talk section


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## Martine (Jan 26, 2018)

Max C. said:


> Look boys and girls, we could fling sh!t at each other over the issue all day long, however Martine's original post was simply a reminder about grants.
> 
> Regarding the political-side of this, there's plenty of room in the Controversial Talk section


I'd be lying if I said I never saw this coming, but wanted to make sure any women were aware since you only ever hear people talking about the men's grant. I'm just no longer addressing the replies as my original point has been made and that's all that matters. :glasses:


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