# 10-3 NM with no ground?



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Only once.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Have never seen that before. But I see a lot of 10-3 that has an insulated green ground.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Used to install it all the time back in the 80's and early 90's.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Many times.. that was the way it was done here for (30)+years.. only changed when the code required a (4) wire system.. 

Some guys were even running 10/2.. with bare ground for dryers and it passed inspection..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Some guys were even running 10/2.. with bare ground for dryers and it passed inspection..


That was never code compliant.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

alselec53 said:


> Came across a 10-3 NM, Blk, RED, WHT, but no bare ground run to a dryer circuit. Anyone ever see this?


Are you sure they did not just cut off the ground?:blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> That was never code compliant.


Yeah but i find that all the time.:no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yeah but i find that all the time.:no:


I don't run into it much but I see the 10/3 without ground quite a bit, especially the old cloth romex.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

B4T said:


> Many times.. that was the way it was done here for (30)+years.. only changed when the code required a (4) wire system..
> 
> Some guys were even running 10/2.. with bare ground for dryers and it passed inspection..


I have seen 10/2 but not the other wire.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> That was never code compliant.


I know.. it was one of those AHJ things or the inspector didn't see it from his car..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I know.. it was one of those AHJ things or the inspector didn't see it from his car..



Around here it would pass with a bag of cash. 

I remember seeing a guy wiring new houses not that long ago running 10/2 to the dryer location. I have no clue at all how that passed inspection, but it did.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Around here it would pass with a bag of cash.
> 
> I remember seeing a guy wiring new houses not that long ago running 10/2 to the dryer location. I have no clue at all how that passed inspection, but it did.


Most of the older inspectors did that them selves.:whistling2:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Around here it would pass with a bag of cash.
> 
> I remember seeing a guy wiring new houses not that long ago running 10/2 to the dryer location. I have no clue at all how that passed inspection, but it did.


There are some out there that they would pigtail the bare conductor to hot the ground and the neutral terminals....:blink::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> There are some out there that they would pigtail the bare conductor to hot the ground and the neutral terminals....:blink::laughing:


Huh? :blink:

I once had a j-man tell me to put the ground and neutral together on the same terminal if you install a 3-wire dryer outlet where both are present.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Are you sure they did not just cut off the ground?:blink:


I bought and installed that back in the early 1980s as well. It was cheaper than the 10-3/g cable and not required since the receptacles in those days were a NEMA 10-30R.


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## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

Really weird, why would anyone make sheath NM wire without a ground. First time i have seen it, after many years of elec work.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

You could purchase nm without ground up until around 2005. NO idea why they made such wire for so long. Ive seen 10-3 w out ground in a few locations for dryers but it was mostly 10-2 in all other places:laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I've even seen 8/3 Al SE cable run for dryers, wish they had 8/3 Al SER these days, I'd be running it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

meadow said:


> You could purchase nm without ground up until around 2005. NO idea why they made such wire for so long. Ive seen 10-3 w out ground in a few locations for dryers but it was mostly 10-2 in all other places:laughing:


I've seen apt buildings wired with 8/3 no ground to each sub panel, #12 to the closest waterpipe for ground. 1963


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I've even seen 8/3 Al SE cable run for dryers, wish they had 8/3 Al SER these days, I'd be running it.


I worked for the guy who wired homes for Suffolk Village.. they had a bunch of models on Sunrise Hwy, Sayville.. now a car wash..

Suffolk built 1000's of houses and all we used for dryers and ranges was 8/3 AL SEU..

They had (3) vans strictly for roughing with 1000' spools racked in the back.. they used to just back the truck up close to a window and start pulling...


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> I worked for the guy who wired homes for Suffolk Village.. they had a bunch of models on Sunrise Hwy, Sayville.. now a car wash..
> 
> Suffolk built 1000's of houses and all we used for dryers and ranges was 8/3 AL SEU..
> 
> They had (3) vans strictly for roughing with 1000' spools racked in the back.. they used to just back the truck up close to a window and start pulling...


I saw guys working like that when I was around 8 years old wiring the new house next door. I was going to set a van up like that in PA when I was in the talks to wire tract homes.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Huh? :blink:
> 
> I once had a j-man tell me to put the ground and neutral together on the same terminal if you install a 3-wire dryer outlet where both are present.



That must be the guy here at Lowe's:jester:


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## wesleydnunder (Mar 19, 2012)

I see that wiring frequently on older houses.

Mark


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I've even seen 8/3 Al SE cable run for dryers, wish they had 8/3 Al SER these days, I'd be running it.


They still do: http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM46


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

meadow said:


> They still do:


Can't find it out here, also local building codes prohibit aluminum wire past the service on residential work. The nanny NY hype of *aluminum is dangerous* became law.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Can't find it out here, also local building codes prohibit aluminum wire past the service on residential work. The nanny NY hype of *aluminum is dangerous* became law.


That must suck. Aluminum is in about half of homes for all non 15 and 20 amp circuits. Cuts cost in 3rds.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

meadow said:


> That must suck. Aluminum is in about half of homes for all non 15 and 20 amp circuits. Cuts cost in 3rds.


I always said NY sucks.


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