# Which LED flood light for this purpose?



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Below is a picture of a light in the back of a customer's house. It shines down on their backyard. I am not sure of the wattage or anything else since it's up above the lower level roof.

They are happy with the light output, but the cover blew off and the bulbs were a pain to change since it's high up. So they would like me to replace it with an LED that will give the same output.

This is where I need your help, what size light should I get to match the output? I would appreciate any suggestions for the LED light itself, thanks.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

This 18 watt unit will do a nice job:

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154576/LITH-0050.html

Others, for some reason, use a 75watt as a replacement.


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

You want us to guess what wattage the light is so we can suggest alternatives?????? 

It could be anything from 100w to 500w in that type of fitting. 

A 100w halogen LED equivalent is around 10w

A 500w halogen LED equivalent is around 50w


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Suncoast Power said:


> This 18 watt unit will do a nice job:
> 
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154576/LITH-0050.html
> 
> Others, for some reason, use a 75watt as a replacement.


I've used this same one, but with 5 others in front of a store.

I am thinking that the customer has a 500w lamp in that light, so I might need something brighter.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I have seen replacement LEDS for quartz tubulars. Okay, I see the cover got blowed off good so that's not an option  ,


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

72,000 Lumens should do the trick 
Will be useful to contact extraterrestrial life as well.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Essex said:


> You want us to guess what wattage the light is so we can suggest alternatives??????
> 
> It could be anything from 100w to 500w in that type of fitting.
> 
> ...


He did mention the lamp was missing so, not much data to be given.


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

Suncoast Power said:


> He did mention the lamp was missing so, not much data to be given.




No, he said he was unsure because it was high up. He said the cover was missing not the lamp. The lamp can clearly be seen in the photo. 

Personally I would air on the side of caution and install a 50W LED floodlight.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

I have been replacing them with the RAB FFL18
and people love them


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Suncoast Power said:


> This 18 watt unit will do a nice job:
> 
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154576/LITH-0050.html
> 
> Others, for some reason, use a 75watt as a replacement.



18 watt is not very much even for LED-- I use , as a rule of thumb, 7 times

18 x 7 = 126 watts..... Not much from that height but I don't know their need

Looks like a 300 or 500 watt quartz


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

So recommend a light, Dennis.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The ones I know about are $300-$400.

I never have used econolights but check the ones at the bottom of the page

http://www.e-conolight.com/outdoor-...wt-TEk83zAw0N61PbgagEk-KTd9ShydF-BBoCW_7w_wcB


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I've used a bunch of the econolight mini floods and they're great for the price. 
I have at least 3 dozen in operation at an apt complex and as far as I know not a single failure


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electricalwiz said:


> I have been replacing them with the RAB FFL18
> and people love them


I'm not seeing those, is that the right model number?

18 watts seems low, what wattage halogen would you compare it to? Thanks.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> I've used a bunch of the econolight mini floods and they're great for the price.
> I have at least 3 dozen in operation at an apt complex and as far as I know not a single failure


Which ones?


I have been using a lot of these, but I am not sure if it is going to be bright enough: https://www.amazon.com/All-Pro-FSL2...d=1475360267&sr=8-2&keywords=cooper+led+flood


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Which ones?
> 
> 
> I have been using a lot of these, but I am not sure if it is going to be bright enough: https://www.amazon.com/All-Pro-FSL2...d=1475360267&sr=8-2&keywords=cooper+led+flood


These are the ones Ive been using

https://www.e-conolight.com/catalog...ategory/15671/?finish=5311&cct=5271#configtop

I generally use them for up lighting and sign lighting

They have several to choose from. I'm sure you can find something that will work for you.

https://www.e-conolight.com/outdoor-lighting/floodlight.html


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

That one might not be bright enough.

I will look thru the others.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It looks like a 500W quartz to me. This would have the same punch:

https://www.rabweb.com/product.php?product=FXLED105SF


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> It looks like a 500W quartz to me. This would have the same punch:
> 
> https://www.rabweb.com/product.php?product=FXLED105SF


That's big, that's 105watt 

It's also $600+


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

99cents said:


> It looks like a 500W quartz to me. This would have the same punch:
> 
> https://www.rabweb.com/product.php?product=FXLED105SF


explain to me how he's supposed to install a pole mount light on the side of a house


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> That's big, that's 105watt
> 
> It's also $600+


Look at the lumens. 11,000 for a 500W quartz, 10,900 for the Rab.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

drspec said:


> explain to me how he's supposed to install a pole mount light on the side of a house


Trunnion mount


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> explain to me how he's supposed to install a pole mount light on the side of a house


I didn't even look at that, I just saw the wattage and price.

I'm actually surprised that 99cents didn't tell me to put a Lotus out on the box :thumbup:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

That quartz flood was dirt cheap, probably thirty bucks. If he wants the equivalent punch in LED, he's going to have to open up his wallet.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Look at the lumens. 11,000 for a 500W quartz, 10,900 for the Rab.


You're right, i didn't realize that those quartz lights put out that many lumens.

But they don't seem that much brighter than the 1500-2000 lumen LED lights.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> You're right, i didn't realize that those quartz lights put out that many lumens.
> 
> But they don't seem that much brighter than the 1500-2000 lumen LED lights.


Lumen depreciation probably. Light loss with quartz is dismal.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

We've used e-conolight a bit and have had good success with them. I believe their 76w flood http://www.e-conolight.com/outdoor-...00-lumens-e-conolight.html?cct=5271#configtop would do the job. We have had two failures with their products, one right out of the box and one about a year after install but they replaced them both.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm still not wrapping my head around this. The 30watt 1900 lumen LED's that I have installed seem like they are at least the same output as a 300watt quartz light. Yet the 76watt lights linked to above say they are equivalent to 200watt lights.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I'm still not wrapping my head around this. The 30watt 1900 lumen LED's that I have installed seem like they are at least the same output as a 300watt quartz light. Yet the 76watt lights linked to above say they are equivalent to 200watt lights.


Lumen depreciation and dirt depreciation will significantly affect the performance of a fixture over time. 

It's tough to compare maintained lumens, LED vs. incandescent or HID, because they haven't figured out a formula for LED. The 76W vs. 200W comparison is probably accurate based on initial lumens.

Sorry if I sound like telsa but I'm IES trained.

That 76W fixture will probably work fine.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I'm still not wrapping my head around this. The 30watt 1900 lumen LED's that I have installed seem like they are at least the same output as a 300watt quartz light. Yet the 76watt lights linked to above say they are equivalent to 200watt lights.


I don't know either. If you compare lumen amounts exactly it doesn't seem to add up. I did mount 2 of them about 18' up in a 40 x 100 barn used for storage and they do a good job of what it's used for. I think they seem brighter than a 500w quartz.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Actually it says comparable to a 200w metal halide/150w pulse start MH. That could be the difference.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

I just installed a few of these, they did a great job and look nice.
https://www.rabweb.com/product.php?product=FFLED39B44W/PCS


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I'm not seeing those, is that the right model number?
> 
> 18 watts seems low, what wattage halogen would you compare it to? Thanks.


https://www.energyavenue.com/RAB-Lighting/FFLED18?gclid=CNfRp-r7us8CFQckhgodaQQOYQ



I have replaced both 300 and 500 watt halogens with no complaints
You will get less light than the 500 but everybody I have put them in for have been happy to never change a lamp again


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

3DDesign said:


> I just installed a few of these, they did a great job and look nice.
> https://www.rabweb.com/product.php?product=FFLED39B44W/PCS


Those are nice, but I think they are too big to put on a house 
I always felt the FFLED 18 was a better size for a house

just my opinion


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

electricalwiz said:


> Those are nice, but I think they are too big to put on a house
> I always felt the FFLED 18 was a better size for a house
> 
> just my opinion


I've installed the 18 watt also and I agree it's a good choice. The only possible problem I see is the existing fixture may be a 500W and to match the light output , you'll need more than 18W LED. A decrease in lumens could create an unhappy customer.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

I've ordered 7 of these...
https://www.rabweb.com/18-watt-led-wallpacks.php

I'll let you know how they work. 27 years at 10 hours a day.  Replace a 150 watt Metal Halide 

They steer these LEDs now days...
*'The new 18 Watt LPACK is designed with next generation LED chips and phosphor, precision engineered optics and super high efficiency driver.'*

$200 in 99's area of the world.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

daveEM said:


> I've ordered 7 of these...
> https://www.rabweb.com/18-watt-led-wallpacks.php
> 
> I'll let you know how they work. 27 years at 10 hours a day.  Replace a 150 watt Metal Halide
> ...


This fixture is 103 lumens per watt. They are comparing it to another fixture at 65 lumens per watt. This is why you have to compare lumens, not watts. LED's are confusing.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

If people are getting bright enough light from 18 watt lights, that is why I wonder if the 30 watt light I have been installing will be good enough:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFJ7IA...e=df0&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B00BFJ7IAA


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> If people are getting bright enough light from 18 watt lights, that is why I wonder if the 30 watt light I have been installing will be good enough:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFJ7IA...e=df0&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B00BFJ7IAA


I'm thinking it will be fine. You're not going to hang the 11,000 lumen battleship just to match the quartz. You're replacing a cheap piece of crap somebody bought at the hardware store.

At least Cooper gives you a little bit of photometry and your Allpro fixture gives you pretty good spread at 5 foot-candles, which is perfectly acceptable for outdoor lighting.

Just do it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I'm thinking it will be fine. You're not going to hang the 11,000 lumen battleship just to match the quartz. You're replacing a cheap piece of crap somebody bought at the hardware store.
> 
> At least Cooper gives you a little bit of photometry and your Allpro fixture gives you pretty good spread at 5 foot-candles, which is perfectly acceptable for outdoor lighting.
> 
> Just do it.


Yeah, I think I will. Thanks.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

99cents said:


> This fixture is 103 lumens per watt. They are comparing it to another fixture at 65 lumens per watt. This is why you have to compare lumens, not watts. LED's are confusing.


They're not comparing it to just 'another' fixture. They are comparing their 'new' 18 watt and their 'old' 20 watt.

^^ They are telling you how much more efficient they made their new one as to lumen output (double) and less wattage and extended life (100,000 hours).

Now what they really want to tell you is that with their new *"precision engineered optics"* is that it will replace a "150 watt Metal Halide *"0ne for one".*

^^ And they do tell you that.

You are correct this LED stuff can be confusing. The 150 watt Metal Halide is pumping out an astounding 9500 lumens.
http://www.eclipselightinginc.com/pages/posts/metal-halide-mh-lamping-lumens-output36.php

I am going to replace seven 100 watt metal Halides (at 8500 lumens) with this new super efficient 18 watt, 2044 lumen job.

We shall see. 

The thing is with older fixtures, including linear types is they blow the light all over hell's half acre. So by directing or targeting the light the real manufacturers seem to think they can replace these old fixtures.

_Leds and lumens_ don't mean a lot it seems.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

daveEM said:


> Their not comparing it to just 'another' fixture. They are comparing their 'new' 18 watt and their 'old' 20 watt.


Yeah, I get that. 103 lumens per watt is impressive. Hack's Allpro is at about 70.

I'm not a big Cooper fan but they have always been good at providing practical photometry even with Allpro, which is their budget line. At least it gives you an idea of what kind of light you're going to get. You don't get that from Chinese Junk Manufacturing.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Yeah, I get that. 103 lumens per watt is impressive. Hack's Allpro is at about 70.
> 
> I'm not a big Cooper fan but they have always been good at providing practical photometry even with Allpro, which is their budget line. At least it gives you an idea of what kind of light you're going to get. You don't get that from Chinese Junk Manufacturing.


I didn't realize that these were budget line fixtures. I've used them for commercial purposes, I hope they last!

Do you have a recommendation for a better line that isn't too expensive? 

These are around $65, the comparable RAB's are around $200+. Something in the middle?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Go with the econolight mini floods. They will be fine.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I didn't realize that these were budget line fixtures. I've used them for commercial purposes, I hope they last!
> 
> Do you have a recommendation for a better line that isn't too expensive?
> 
> These are around $65, the comparable RAB's are around $200+. Something in the middle?


I don't think there's anything wrong with Allpro. Sometimes it's just marketing with some products aimed at the contractor market and some aimed at the spec market.

When I was with Juno, they developed a budget line that was almost identical to their other products. They didn't provide photometry so you couldn't punch it in to a lighting program or provide spec sheets for approval.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Go with the econolight mini floods. They will be fine.


I may do that if for no other reason than they will mount to the existing box.

The Allpro light will require a new box and an adapter.

You always recommended the Allpro light, you light the Econolight Mini Flood better?


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## Kyrton (Feb 2, 2016)

I know I am late chiming in here-
I replaced 2- 300w halogen flood lights with the FFLED18 5000k Rab fixtures. They are in the front lawn and light up the front of the house. They then had me replace a few wall mounted with the same lights because they liked them so much.

I love RAB's products. They are expensive, but quality always is. 10 year 100000 hr warranty, who can beat that!


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I may do that if for no other reason than they will mount to the existing box.
> 
> The Allpro light will require a new box and an adapter.
> 
> You always recommended the Allpro light, you light the Econolight Mini Flood better?


We have had great luck with Econolight fixtures. We've slapped in a pile of them, and the only failures where with HID fixtures with econolight photocells. I've never used that allpro light, so I can't speak to that. I would slap up an econolight flood or mini flood to replace that halogen in a minute.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I may do that if for no other reason than they will mount to the existing box.
> 
> The Allpro light will require a new box and an adapter.
> 
> You always recommended the Allpro light, you light the Econolight Mini Flood better?


Only because you don't need that stupid ****ing adapter for a bell box.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I have the small round econlight floods at my own house.


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