# Customer threatening law suit



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I am closing this topic up for discussion. I misunderstood what this web sight is for.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

If the sump pump was not on the plans... the owner had no case.. :no::no:

He is just trying to pass the blame because HE screwed up...

Try to finish the job and never work for him again...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Lighten up lighterup, the onus of malfeasance is on the plaintiff

~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It's just threats, what is he actually going to sue you for, damaged tools because a pump didn't work during a power outage? The outage can be proven in court.

I would be sure to keep all documentation and (if legal in your state) record all discussions.

You have it in writing where he told you not to enter his property or else he will have you arrested? If so, that should be enough to clear you from his allegations that you are in breach of contract for not finishing the work. 

In the end, coolers heads prevail. Write out a very clear e-mail citing the code that requires a sump pump to be GFCI protected, info from the power company confirming the outage, and anything else.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

lighterup said:


> I am opening this topic up for discussion. I'm asking for advise as it relates to
> opinions about my perspective . I'm getting my cherry popped here , as this
> is the first time in my 13 years of business that someone is threatening me
> with a law suit.
> ...





> Customer was informed of cancellation and is now saying "i am in breach
> because I agreed to to all work under contract"....(WTF?)


:laughing::laughing::no:

This guy sounds like he has run out of money and wants to stiff you.

If this goes to court he will lose,that does not mean you will get paid however,because it sounds like he's broke and has lost his mind too.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> :laughing::laughing::no:
> 
> This guy sounds like he has run out of money and wants to stiff you.
> 
> If this goes to court he will lose,that does not mean you will get paid however,because it sounds like he's broke and has lost his mind too.


I invoice as I go along and have no grace periods , so I'm paid up to this
point. This is not the issue . As far as money goes , I suspect he . like many
other do-it your-selfers , would like to try to complete the finish phase 
himself and save a few bucks. That's fine with me , but not under my permit
or license or commercial liability . 

In his inexperience , I don't think he realized that I have civic authority to
cancel the electrical permit and that caught him off guard.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> It's just threats, what is he actually going to sue you for, damaged tools because a pump didn't work during a power outage? The outage can be proven in court.
> 
> I would be sure to keep all documentation and (if legal in your state) record all discussions.
> 
> ...



Yes , I have it on my I phone because when he wants to vent , he text
messages everything . That is admissable because he initiates the text , 
with full knowledge that it is being documented by the phone company.

I was actually on my way over there friday morning when he began his
on slaught of text messages . I informed him I was driving and almost there
and he seemed to hit the panic button , mispelling words left & right like he
was a nervous wreck , ...that's when he sprung it on me that I was'nt
allowed on the job anymore.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I think you're right about him not knowing that you could pull the permit.

Stick to your guns, be professional, he'll cave.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> Lighten up lighterup, the onus of malfeasance is on the plaintiff
> 
> ~CS~


I am light ..I care about my reputation because I'm in this for the long haul.
You don't sound like a business owner to me.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I think you're right about him not knowing that you could pull the permit.
> 
> Stick to your guns, be professional, he'll cave.


I appreciate the moral support , but can you or anyone else , yes even 
chicken steve , think of any other code references that can help me 
prepare for this guys attempt at a law suit against me...

For instance , code requires limited uses for extension cords and temporary
installations...code requires gfci protection for outlet receptacles in an
unfinished basement...Ohio law entitles me entry to a property where I
have an active electrical permit as the responsible party for electrical 
wiring and installations on the property....

Perhaps , I should ask that electrical contractors need only reply to this
post.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't think anyone is going to want to do much for you with this attitude you keep displaying.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

lighterup said:


> I am light ..I care about my reputation because I'm in this for the long haul.
> You don't sound like a business owner to me.


If you are concerned about your rep, act like a professional and get a lawyer involved.

You don't seem very concerned if you are looking for free legal advice on a Internet forum. 

Every interaction you have with this person has the potential to weaken your position, get real advice before you screw yourself trying to DIY the law.


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

lighterup said:


> I am light ..I care about my reputation because I'm in this for the long haul.
> You don't sound like a business owner to me.


All he is saying is " don't get excited". First, the burden of proof is on the home owner. If you are paid up to date, then just calmly go to the permit office and pull the permit back ( here, I must attach a letter as to why the permit is being rescinded). Gather up all written documentation such as your contract, plans, invoices and print out his text messages. Put them in a box for safe keeping and move on to bigger and better things. Who knows unless this guy is super rich the bank may be interested in what is happening with THEIR house. 
I know you care about your reputation but its a fact of business you will get these a**holes from time to time. They want something for nothing or they are just not happy unless they are causing some type of drama. Move on.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I think you're right about him not knowing that you could pull the permit.
> 
> Stick to your guns, be professional, he'll cave.


Agreed. There's a huge difference between the threat of a lawsuit and an actual lawsuit. Lawsuits are expensive and the up front costs can be substantial. It would be cheaper for the home owner to put his money into finishing his house.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> If you are concerned about your rep, act like a professional and get a lawyer involved.


Yep.



BBQ said:


> You don't seem very concerned if you are looking for free legal advice on a Internet forum.


What we think and say has ZIP to do with this 'case'



BBQ said:


> Every interaction you have with this person has the potential to weaken your position, get real advice before you screw yourself trying to DIY the law.


And this includes this thread showing up in any future legal proceedings.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

BBQ said:


> If you are concerned about your rep, act like a professional and get a lawyer involved.
> 
> You don't seem very concerned if you are looking for free legal advice on a Internet forum.
> 
> Every interaction you have with this person has the potential to weaken your position, get real advice before you screw yourself trying to DIY the law.


No sense getting a lawyer involved until papers are served. Doubtful it will ever come to that.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

99cents said:


> No sense getting a lawyer involved until papers are served. Doubtful it will ever come to that.


It might 'send a message' to have a lawyer draw up a letter on his/her stationary to send to the guy mentioning 'mitigation of damage' to any tools & material the OP still has on site. :whistling2: The OP is legally entitled to recover those items.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> No sense getting a lawyer involved until papers are served. Doubtful it will ever come to that.


Agreed. The whole "get a lawyer" cause some doofus says he's gonna sue you is criptarded.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> It's just threats, what is he actually going to sue you for, damaged tools because a pump didn't work during a power outage? The outage can be proven in court.
> 
> I would be sure to keep all documentation and (if legal in your state) record all discussions.
> 
> ...


No, no, no, no, NO!

First rule is to keep communication to a minimum, particularly anything in writing.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

HackWork said:


> Agreed. The whole "get a lawyer" cause some doofus says he's gonna sue you is criptarded.


As a business owner you should already "have a lawyer". Getting his/her opinion on this rather than the opinion of a group of know it all electricians on the internet seems like a logical option.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

99cents said:


> No sense getting a lawyer involved until papers are served. Doubtful it will ever come to that.


I disagree, he is still involved with the job, he has at least a temp service to retrieve from property he has been told to stay off of. 

If he just goes and does whatever he thinks is right he has a high potential to misstep and weaken his position.

If it was me, I would consult a lawyer that knows the laws in that area and have the lawyer send a letter to this customer explaining the law and my rights to get my equipment back. 

I do agree this customer is likely just blowing smoke about a suit but a letter from a real lawyer may very well putt his fire out.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Agreed. The whole "get a lawyer" cause some doofus says he's gonna sue you is criptarded.


He has equipment on property he has been told to stay off of or be arrested. 

Time to get a lawyer and not one named Hacklaw. :laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

480sparky said:


> It might 'send a message' to have a lawyer draw up a letter on his/her stationary to send to the guy mentioning 'mitigation of damage' to any tools & material the OP still has on site. :whistling2: The OP is legally entitled to recover those items.


Nope. That kind of legal one-upmanship only results in lawyers trading in their old BMW's to buy new ones.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> He has equipment on property he has been told to stay off of or be arrested.
> 
> Time to get a lawyer and not one named Hacklaw. :laughing:


I agree that the temp pole changes it. If the guy doesn't come to his sense in a day or two, then a lawyer is probability he best option.

And stop making fun of my name


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> And stop making fun of my name


But it's so easy and so fun.:laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

lighterup said:


> I am light ..I care about my reputation because I'm in this for the long haul.
> You don't sound like a business owner to me.


since the mid 80's lighterup, how many litigation stories would you like? ~CS~


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

BBQ said:


> He has equipment on property he has been told to stay off of or be arrested.
> 
> Time to get a lawyer and not one named Hacklaw. :laughing:


This home owner is just huffing and puffing. Once he figures out that hiring a lawyer plus a new electrician would be a huge and costly PITA, he will calm down.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

99cents said:


> Nope. That kind of legal one-upmanship only results in lawyers trading in their old BMW's to buy new ones.



A one-hour bill certainly won't break the bank. I doubt the lawyers will be involved after that.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

99cents said:


> This home owner is just huffing and puffing. Once he figures out that hiring a lawyer plus a new electrician would be a huge and costly PITA, he will calm down.


To each their own.

The man asked for advice, I simply said what I would do.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> To each their own.
> 
> The man asked for advice, I simply said what I would do.


While denouncing everyone else's advice :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> since the mid 80's lighterup, how many litigation stories would you like? ~CS~


Exactly. I had a "friend" (let's call her that) who decided to sue a client. She had to pay legal fees and even put up $15,000.00 in advance to cover court costs. She lost. She ended up declaring personal and corporate bankruptcy. Pretty stupid.

If anything, this is something for insurance companies to figure out, assuming both sides have insurance.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> While denouncing everyone else's advice :laughing::laughing::laughing:


I must have missed the memo explaining we can only agree with each other.

I did not call anyone's views stupid, or wrong I simply said I disagree with them. If you have a problem with that it is on you not me. 

Maybe you need to get laid. :laughing:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

EBFD6 said:


> As a business owner you should already "have a lawyer". Getting his/her opinion on this rather than the opinion of a group of know it all electricians on the internet seems like a logical option.


Those of you that think you know everything are very annoying to those of us that do!


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Troll thread


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

You are right . Thanx


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

BBQ said:


> I disagree, he is still involved with the job, he has at least a temp service to retrieve from property he has been told to stay off of.
> 
> If he just goes and does whatever he thinks is right he has a high potential to misstep and weaken his position.
> 
> ...



BBQ .. I know what you are saying is correct and thanx for the post , BUT lawyers do not help unless there is bookoo money to be made by them.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

BBQ said:


> He has equipment on property he has been told to stay off of or be arrested.
> 
> Time to get a lawyer and not one named Hacklaw. :laughing:



:thumbsup:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

:laughing:


99cents said:


> Nope. That kind of legal one-upmanship only results in lawyers trading in their old BMW's to buy new ones.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> since the mid 80's lighterup, how many litigation stories would you like? ~CS~


uhhh..how many you got?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I don't think anyone is going to want to do much for you with this attitude you keep displaying.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

ceb58 said:


> All he is saying is " don't get excited". First, the burden of proof is on the home owner. If you are paid up to date, then just calmly go to the permit office and pull the permit back ( here, I must attach a letter as to why the permit is being rescinded). Gather up all written documentation such as your contract, plans, invoices and print out his text messages. Put them in a box for safe keeping and move on to bigger and better things. Who knows unless this guy is super rich the bank may be interested in what is happening with THEIR house.
> I know you care about your reputation but its a fact of business you will get these a**holes from time to time. They want something for nothing or they are just not happy unless they are causing some type of drama. Move on.


Senior..thanx for the reply . Just to be clear , I've had bad customers in the past , I've just never been sued. I have stopped talking to the guy. Once he
called the police and threatened me , he burned the bridge down. He has
lost my services ; I would not help any longer on his job if he begged.

As far as legal aid is concerned , lawyers are not interested in these small
claims . Under $5,000.00 , no lawyer gets involved.

My intent was to discuss this with like minded people and for the most part
I have received some very good comments (for the most part).

I'm fully aware that I'm on the internet and the potential of who else may
be on.

Thank you for your comments.
lighterup


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So let this a-hole spend his $$$ spinning his wheels ligthone, h*ll let his subpoena you if he likes, HE is the one who has to prove YOU wrong

Or, if you want to play games, countersue , especially if you can prove slander in any public way pursuant to you and/or your companies reputation.

Or better yet, go crack a cold one , and _faaaagabuuuuaaait_ , it's sunday for gawds sake!

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

lighterup said:


> BBQ .. I know what you are saying is correct and thanx for the post , BUT lawyers do not help unless there is bookoo money to be made by them.


You would have to pay by the hour for their services.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

lighterup said:


> BBQ .. I know what you are saying is correct and thanx for the post , BUT lawyers do not help unless there is bookoo money to be made by them.


So are you saying you do not already have a lawyer that you use for business purposes?

I'm not in business, so maybe (actually certainly) I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. However, if I were to decide to go into business tomorrow the first 2 phone calls I would make would be to a lawyer and an accountant. How can you be a successful business without sound legal and financial advice?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

EBFD6 said:


> So are you saying you do not already have a lawyer that you use for business purposes?
> 
> I'm not in business, so maybe (actually certainly) I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. However, if I were to decide to go into business tomorrow the first 2 phone calls I would make would be to a lawyer and an accountant. *How can you be a successful business without sound legal and financial advice?*


Ask the hundreds of thousands of successful small businesses that did not use a lawyer at the beginning how they did it.

This is just a guess, but I bet the vast majority of 1-2 men shops here never used a lawyer at the beginning, not until they start doing larger contracted work.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

My 2 cents, based on similar experiences.

He can THREATEN you with legal action, it is entirely a different matter to accomplish that. To do so, he has to find a lawyer to take the case. Any DECENT lawyer will look at it and blow him off for any number of reasons, the first being it has no merit. You cannot sue people for imaginary damages, so he would have to show real damages, PROVE negligence on your part, AND that the damages are the result of ONLY that negligence. "Feelings" don't count, so decent lawyers will blow him off.

Then of the lawyers who don't care about that, they will need to see some serious money involved. 

The sharks will then look for blood in the water, either his or yours, it doesn't matter to them. But none of them will take this kind of case on contingency, they will want payment up front, and most likely more than the entire cost of your electrical contract. If HE has money to burn, it's not likely he would be fighting this so hard. They will check that out first and drop him like a hot potato if he is not sitting on Ft. Knox. You on the other hand will have limited liability and an insurance company, therefore limited to the point of the sharks not seeing a big enough meal ticket. Remember, they only get a PORTION of the award, if any. 

If anything, he may find an ambulance chaser to write a threatening sounding letter for a few hundred dollars, but it won't go further than that. Bottom line, it's all bluster, he isn't going to do anything. And if he did call the police on you for showing up to retrieve your tools, they would not respond. They know better. But if he threatens you physically when you do show up, THEN they will get involved, on your side.

When this sort of thing has happened to me, I just left it alone until it either went away, or it got real, as in court summons, at which time I called the insurance company. Nothing ever got further than that, because once the sharks saw I wasn't going to just lay down and expose my belly to them, they lost interest. But as others have said, by NO means correspond with this guy any more, other than to retrieve your lawful property.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

lighterup said:


> I am closing this topic up for discussion. I misunderstood what this web sight is for.


This web site is exactly for this discussion,not every reply you get will be a good one but most of them will help you out.

You said you're looking for code reference to your issue.

210.8 and article 590.3 will pretty much cover what you are looking for,.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> So are you saying you do not already have a lawyer that you use for business purposes?
> 
> I'm not in business, so maybe (actually certainly) I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. However, if I were to decide to go into business tomorrow the first 2 phone calls I would make would be to a lawyer and an accountant. How can you be a successful business without sound legal and financial advice?


It's not like we have a legal department we can phone from the corner office. Most of us have a business lawyer like you have a personal lawyer - the guy you used to write up your will. Certainly, the OP can see a lawyer and, if this drags on long enough, he should. What many of us are saying, however, is that most guys who threaten a lawsuit are just hot heads who come to their senses after a while. If we ran to the lawyer every time a customer turned into a babbling lunatic, we would have our own parking stall at the law office with our name on it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

JRaef said:


> My 2 cents, based on similar experiences.
> 
> He can THREATEN you with legal action, it is entirely a different matter to accomplish that. To do so, he has to find a lawyer to take the case. Any DECENT lawyer will look at it and blow him off for any number of reasons, the first being it has no merit. You cannot sue people for imaginary damages, so he would have to show real damages, PROVE negligence on your part, AND that the damages are the result of ONLY that negligence. "Feelings" don't count, so decent lawyers will blow him off.
> 
> ...


That sums it up really nice  .


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> This web site is exactly for this discussion,not every reply you get will be a good one but most of them will help you out.
> 
> You said you're looking for code reference to your issue.
> 
> 210.8 and article 590.3 will pretty much cover what you are looking for,.


:thumbup:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> So are you saying you do not already have a lawyer that you use for business purposes?
> 
> I'm not in business, so maybe (actually certainly) I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. However, if I were to decide to go into business tomorrow the first 2 phone calls I would make would be to a lawyer and an accountant. How can you be a successful business without sound legal and financial advice?


 I had a customer refusing to pay his finish bill. I disliked the guy so 
much that I went to the attorney firm here in town where I live and told 
him he could keep everything as his fee. (it was around $2,000.00). I just
didn't want the customer to get away with his B.S..

Much to my amazement the lawyer blew it off and told me he wasn't interested in helping.

His advise as is all the ones I've gone to is , take them to small claims court.

The problem with small claims court is that you spend more money , more time and more energy on something that , even if the court awards you
your money , it does not have teeth to force the person to pay you.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> So let this a-hole spend his $$$ spinning his wheels ligthone, h*ll let his subpoena you if he likes, HE is the one who has to prove YOU wrong
> 
> Or, if you want to play games, countersue , especially if you can prove slander in any public way pursuant to you and/or your companies reputation.
> 
> ...


Isn't Sunday the day when we have time to sit and talk like this ? I mostly
am working Mon-Sat..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

lighterup said:


> ....., even if the court awards you
> your money ....


Small claims doesn't award money. They award _judgements_.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I'd tell him to go get some cheese to go with his whine then tell him to find a new contractor.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Small claims doesn't award money. They award _judgements_.


For the most part this is true, in fact it's a long paper chase that most people tire of pursuing. 

They do, however, eventually come to certain provisions that can be taken advantage of

One is a Writ of Attachment, which to my knowledge is not universal throughout the states in it's specifics>



> Definition of 'Writ of Attachment'
> A form of prejudgment process in which a court orders the attachment or seizure of property specifically described in the writ. The property is seized and maintained in the custody of a designated official, who is usually a U.S. Marshal or law enforcement officer, under court supervision.


 


> Investopedia explains 'Writ of Attachment'
> A writ of attachment is generally used to freeze assets of a defendant pending the outcome of a legal action. That is, the plaintiff obtains a contingent lien on the defendant's assets that can be exercised should the plaintiff be successful in obtaining a judgment against the defendant. There are a number of different types of attachment, including garnishment, replevin and sequestration.




That said, a lot of these avenues that _appear_ clear cut will choke to death on their own sluggish bureaucracy . For instance, a defendant has the right to face his/her accusers, still a fundamental aspect of our judicial system. But if the defendant is incarcerated, the process to have this happen is of divine intervention caliber , even if via telephone

~CS~


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Jlarson said:


> I'd tell him to go get some cheese to go with his whine then tell him to find a new contractor.


HA:laughing:! HA!...I don't think I mentioned this yet , but he is a whiner...he has complained to me throughout the job how he is unhappy with the plumber...
the excavator ...the hvac contractor ....the building department .....and I guess it's my turn now....I feel sorry for the dry wall / mud & taper ...it's a couple 
of Amish guys who told me that they "usually don't do dry walling".. it looked that way too.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Judge Judy!


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