# No Overcurrent Protection 400amp service



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes. Not a good thing, either.

We had to relocate the meter, install a new 400 Amp safety switch, and completely redo the other wiring in that electric shed. Years' worth of jack-leg wiring was readily apparent in that place, for sure!


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Can be fine with a service rated ATS if the overcurrent protection is nearby.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

We always install a fuseable disconnect after the meter before the service rated ats.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> We always install a fuseable disconnect after the meter before the service rated ats.


If you do that it is an entire waste of money to use a service rated ATS and if it is service rated it would have to have the option to isolate the neutral or you would have a code violation.

230.91 allows the overcurrent protection to be 'immediately adjacent to' the service disconnect.

A service rated ATS is intended to serve as the service disconnect, the overcurrent protection can be on the load side of the ATS if it is 'immediately adjacent to' the ATS.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

OK how about installing an ATS ahead of a meter or meterbank?


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> If you do that it is an entire waste of money to use a service rated ATS and if it is service rated it would have to have the option to isolate the neutral or you would have a code violation.
> 
> 230.91 allows the overcurrent protection to be 'immediately adjacent to' the service disconnect.
> 
> A service rated ATS is intended to serve as the service disconnect, the overcurrent protection can be on the load side of the ATS if it is 'immediately adjacent to' the ATS.


 
I just followed the prints on the two I did. The ATS was capable of switching the neutral and was service rated. Thanks for the information Bob. I come on here to learn and finding out things like that makes it worth while.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I just followed the prints on the two I did. The ATS was capable of switching the neutral and was service rated.


Which should also mean the neutral is isolated from the enclosure which is what I was getting too. 

For a transfer switch to be service rated it must have a way to bond the neutral to the enclosure just like any service rated equipment. But a service rated switch could also come with the neutral _permanently bonded_ to the enclosure and in that case could not be connected to a feeder.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> OK how about installing an ATS ahead of a meter or meterbank?


That would be fine with the NEC if it was service rated, the power company might have an issue with that or not.


----------



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The job we dealt with was a chicken farm. The ATS was NOT service rated. Fed directly from the meter box. They had tapped the 120V battery charger outlet directly off the incoming 400 Amp mains, without any overcurrent protection. 

If that #12 wire had shorted out, it would have burnt a hole right through the frame of the unit!! :blink:

They wanted us to reconfigure the load side of the ATS with an additional feeder to a new chicken house. Not before we fixed the major violations first!


----------



## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

JRANNIS: WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PAY THE POWER COMPANY FOR THE POWER YOU ARE PRODUCING YOURSELF???? :001_huh:


----------

