# Who should install ceiling medallions?



## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

Boss man wants me to cut out a hole in a dining room ceiling to install and reinforce a box for a heavy chandelier. He also wants me to install one of those ceiling medallions but shouldn't a drywaller or plaster man be doing this?
I have never actually installed one. He's not expecting me to paint it but just install it. Do they just get glued to the ceiling? It's a stipple sprayed ceiling too so does it have to be smoothed out behind the medallion first?


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Canaduh said:


> Boss man wants me to cut out a hole in a dining room ceiling to install and reinforce a box for a heavy chandelier. He also wants me to install one of those ceiling medallions but shouldn't a drywaller or plaster man be doing this?
> I have never actually installed one. he's not expecting me to paint it but just install it. Do they just get glued to the ceiling? It's a stipple sprayed ceiling too so does it have to be smoothed out around the medallion first?


Installing a medallion is a craft violation.

Bad idea.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

When needed, I have installed them. I keep 2 on the truck (small and larger). 

Some of them are a single piece and the light canopy will hold it up to the ceiling. In that situation I recommend the customer caulk around the outside of it to hold it up even better.

Others are 2-piece, I remember driving a couple of screws thru them into the ceiling to hold them up. Do it in an inconspicuous place and then tell them to paint the screw head.

I have never done one the size of the one in the OP's picture. The stipple ceiling shouldn't be an issue if you/they caulk around it.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Cut in your box and do what you need and when you are satisfied with it glue the medallion in place. 

Put on the caulk (I prefer pheonseal) real thick and slam her in place, twist it around a little and you can even pull it down a little and slam her back to get more adhesion. 

Some guys hold it in place with painters tape til it sets, I prefer two long box screws and a paint stick as a clamp until it sets up. Caulk around the edge with painter's caulk. All done and it looks pretty for a dust catcher.

Never had anyone install them for me.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> Installing a medallion is a craft violation.
> 
> Bad idea.


It's really no big deal, takes less than 5 minutes to caulk it in place.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

HackWork said:


> When needed, I have installed them. I keep 2 on the truck (small and larger).
> 
> Some of them are a single piece and the light canopy will hold it up to the ceiling. In that situation I recommend the customer caulk around the outside of it to hold it up even better.
> 
> ...


1) The OP is uncomfortable and green at the task.

2) You can't imagine anything that draws more eyeballs... requires perfection.

3) Let the GC perform the task... or any other sub.

I'd make an exception if the medallion is one of those cheesy, cheapo plastic// PVC items.

Those go up like most other trims.

The OP's photo shows a classic, seriously large medallion... common seventy-years ago. They'd be mudded in place. They are so touchy that I've seen re-habs wherein the ceiling was dropped ( two-feet!) just so that the old medallion did not have to be touched up. ( This Old House. )

The craft-art to deal with such plaster work is largely confined to the old cities of the Northeast. Classy medallions are rare in California. ( Think Hollywood mansions ninety-years old. )


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Pffft. What the hell is a craft violation? Is the drywallers union going to wobble grandma's house?

If an employee told me that was the drywaller's job I would have a one sided conversation with him.

Hang it. No need to scrape popcorn off. Those things are light so you shouldn't have to glue it on.


----------



## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

It becomes part of the fixture. You put it up. Make sure your box is down enough. 

As mentioned a bit of glue to hold it in place (or not) till the canopy slams it against the ceiling.

I'd have the painter, or you paint it first. Then touch it up as required after the install.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Pffft. What the hell is a craft violation? Is the drywallers union going to wobble grandma's house?
> 
> If an employee told me that was the drywaller's job I would have a one sided conversation with him.
> 
> Hang it. No need to scrape popcorn off. Those things are light so you shouldn't have to glue it on.


I knew there was something I liked about you!


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> I'd make an exception if the medallion is one of those cheesy, cheapo plastic// PVC items.
> 
> Those go up like most other trims.
> 
> ...



I'd bet it's just one of the more expensive foam backed beasts with a thin pvc veneer skin on the face. The OP used a stock pic he found online to make a point.


----------



## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

It's just a picture I found for those who do not know what a medallion is. Cutting a large enough hole will make fishing the wire and mounting the box a hell of a lot easier. 
I'm sure my boss will bring all of the required material but what kind of glue is normally used for this?
I'm wondering if that two sided gorilla tape would work well for this.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I wouldn't glue it on. He's already hanging a heavy fixture. It weighs nothing.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Canaduh said:


> It's just a picture I found for those who do not know what a medallion is. Cutting a large enough hole will make fishing the wire and mounting the box a hell of a lot easier.
> I'm sure my boss will bring all of the required material but what kind of glue is normally used for this?
> I'm wondering if that two sided gorilla tape would work well for this.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Canaduh said:


> It's just a picture I found for those who do not know what a medallion is. Cutting a large enough hole will make fishing the wire and mounting the box a hell of a lot easier.
> I'm sure my boss will bring all of the required material but what kind of glue is normally used for this?
> I'm wondering if that two sided gorilla tape would work well for this.


Is that the thick, foamy two sided tape? Yep, a couple of pieces of that could hold it up while you get the fixture organized.

If it was known where I have used two sided tape, I would be on the ET Wall of Shame.

Waiting for comments... :laughing:


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Is that the thick, foamy two sided tape? Yep, a couple of pieces of that could hold it up while you get the fixture organized.
> 
> If it was known where I have used two sided tape, I would be on the ET Wall of Shame.
> 
> Waiting for comments... :laughing:


If you buy the size that fits you don't need tape, I used to get magnums!


----------



## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

99cents said:


> Is that the thick, foamy two sided tape? Yep, a couple of pieces of that could hold it up while you get the fixture organized.
> 
> If it was known where I have used two sided tape, I would be on the ET Wall of Shame.
> 
> Waiting for comments... :laughing:


No it's the clear gorilla tape. It's really strong and I use it for a lot of things. We even use it to mount under cabinet lighting strips. I think 1" of the tape holds 10 lbs


----------



## Canaduh (Aug 31, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If you buy the size that fits you don't need tape, I used to get magnums!


:laughing:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I was talking about the Home Depot foam/PVC style.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

99cents said:


> Is that the thick, foamy two sided tape? Yep, a couple of pieces of that could hold it up while you get the fixture organized.
> 
> If it was known where I have used two sided tape, I would be on the ET Wall of Shame.
> 
> Waiting for comments... :laughing:


Don't be too proud.

You're all mouth -- and short a tooth. 

I _wonder_ how that happened.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I was talking about the Home Depot foam/PVC style.


Me too, I haven't seen plaster ones done by any other than a real plaster company. They are a big deal to put up.

I wouldn't touch one on a bet.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Canaduh said:


> Boss man wants me to cut out a hole in a dining room ceiling to install and reinforce a box for a heavy chandelier. He also wants me to install one of those ceiling medallions but shouldn't a drywaller or plaster man be doing this?
> I have never actually installed one. He's not expecting me to paint it but just install it. Do they just get glued to the ceiling? It's a stipple sprayed ceiling too so does it have to be smoothed out behind the medallion first?


Just use one of those ceiling fan brace kits you can install thru a 4 inch hole. No medallion required.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Just use one of those ceiling fan brace kits you can install thru a 4 inch hole. No medallion required.


 Or put it on the joist with a pancake box, even easier and cheaper :whistling2:


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Or put it on the joist with a pancake box, even easier and cheaper :whistling2:


Would that be suitable for the weight?

'Easier and cheaper' I went to school with those girls!


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Would that be suitable for the weight?
> 
> 'Easier and cheaper' I went to school with those girls!


Absolutely. A fan rated pancake box is rated 50lbs. for a fan and 70lbs. for a light, so weight wouldn't be a problem.

Or you can use a normal pancake box and drive some nice screws thru (or around the outside of) the box into the joist. Both ways are code compliant and safe, IMO.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Absolutely. A fan rated pancake box is rated 50lbs. for a fan and 70lbs. for a light, so weight wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Or you can use a normal pancake box and drive some nice screws thru (or around the outside of) the box into the joist. Both ways are code compliant and safe, IMO.


What about if you put a ring on it to accommodate the medallion?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> What about if you put a ring on it to accommodate the medallion?


I don't know what this means.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Absolutely. A fan rated pancake box is rated 50lbs. for a fan and 70lbs. for a light, so weight wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Or you can use a normal pancake box and drive some nice screws thru (or around the outside of) the box into the joist. Both ways are code compliant and safe, IMO.


Thanks, that type of resi was never on my plate.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I don't know what this means.


.....


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> .....


I've never seen such a shallow extension ring.

I just put the medallion and fixture/fan up attaching directly to the box. The center part of the medallion where the canopy sits is usually very thin, like 1/8" or so.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Or put it on the joist with a pancake box, even easier and cheaper :whistling2:


I was thinking it was an existing box. One of those fan rated smart boxes would be OK also. 
We so smart.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> We so smart.


We should team up and make an electrical contracting company.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

telsa said:


> 1) The OP is uncomfortable and green at the task.
> 
> 2) You can't imagine anything that draws more eyeballs... requires perfection.
> 
> ...


That's not what happened on This Old House at all. They took down the medallion that was damaged, a plaster guy made a mold of the still good part, and then they built a new one (or repaired the old one) and remounted it. The plaster guy shot a few 3" sheetrock screws into it to hold it in place. It was the NYC brownstone season, and they also had a plaster guy make new plaster crown molding.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Going_Commando said:


> That's not what happened on This Old House at all. They took down the medallion that was damaged, a plaster guy made a mold of the still good part, and then they built a new one (or repaired the old one) and remounted it. The plaster guy shot a few 3" sheetrock screws into it to hold it in place. It was the NYC brownstone season, and they also had a plaster guy make new plaster crown molding.


Not quite.

My tale is of the before.

Your tale is of the after -- when This Old House performed _their_ re-hab... taking down all the old cr$%.


----------



## BlueOval5272 (Jul 25, 2015)

Canaduh said:


> No it's the clear gorilla tape. It's really strong and I use it for a lot of things. We even use it to mount under cabinet lighting strips. I think 1" of the tape holds 10 lbs




Why not short(1/2") pan head screws? 

As far as your original question, the fixture should hold up the medallion. Caulk around the piece to cover up any seams and you're golden. You can use glue and whatever else, but any that I have ever used didn't weigh enough to really need all that effort


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

99cents said:


> .....


Wtf was this extension? Cool!

I carry two medallions in the van and one or two of those arlington medallion looking int/ext fan rated boxes.

Medallions are common for old work, resi...bla bla bla. Is OP talking about rough in?


----------



## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

Most of the modern medallions are just thin plastic. I did have to put up a large 36" medallion that was the foam with plastic veneer, but was custom faux finished and almost 2" thick where it would contact the box. 

Had to get longer 1/2" threaded nipple to mount chandelier but I mounted the medallion with quick grab panel adhesive and something like mech's idea to set it up while running for the nipple.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

drewsserviceco said:


> Most of the modern medallions are just thin plastic. I did have to put up a large 36" medallion that was the foam with plastic veneer, but was custom faux finished and almost 2" thick where it would contact the box.
> 
> Had to get longer 1/2" threaded nipple to mount chandelier but I mounted the medallion with quick grab panel adhesive and something like mech's idea to set it up while running for the nipple.


I've done a few just like you describe while helping my BIL build his part time business. I was afraid to run a screw through them as not to crack the plastic or damage the things. 

I would mount them and let them set up a while why I did other things and come back to mount the fixture. Final set was running a bead of caulk around the perimeter of the thing. 

Glad I didn't have to install them on a regular basis.

Those small flat rings type plates are a walk in the park and basically just a part of the fixture.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> > Originally Posted by sbrn33 View Post
> > We so smart.
> 
> 
> We should team up and make an electrical contracting company.


I thought you said you two were opening a bed and breakfast?


----------

