# How do you guys wire nut?



## bricktown86 (May 26, 2008)

Hello everyone, new to the site but am finding it a very cool place to look and browse. Anywho, I have a couple of questions. Here goes.

How many twists do you put in your splice before you put your wire nut on? ( I usually make sure there is a good hold and see around 2-3 turns.)

How many wires do you limit on a wire nut? (I use the RED Ideas, and limit to 4-5 #12.)

How far down do you strip your wire before twisting? (I usually strip long, twist together, and on my kliens, there is a relief behind the cutting edge, I line up the insulation of the wire with this relief and cut. Perfect length every time.)

With grounds- Say you have a 4+ gang box and you have many many runs. How many ground will you put in that BLUE wire nut before you need another? Do any of you guys splice from one wire nut to another? or just drill in another ground screw and pig tail another lead off that?

Also, here is a little trick I picked up with those crappy b-caps. If you can get the red ones, 5 ft of 1/2 emt, and a drywall screw, you got a good pigeon shooter. Basically, get your Red buhcannon wirenut, Drill in that drywall screw about half to 3/4 way in so that the point faces out, put it in your 1/2 emt and you can now use it like a blow gun. If you got a framer with a compressor around, it makes things a whole lot funner. Be sure to destroy the evidence though, and dont leave them things layin' around.

Thx for leaving a respond. -Mike-


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bricktown86 said:


> Hello everyone, new to the site but am finding it a very cool place to look and browse. Anywho, I have a couple of questions. Here goes.
> 
> How many twists do you put in your splice before you put your wire nut on? ( I usually make sure there is a good hold and see around 2-3 turns.)


Same for me.



bricktown86 said:


> How many wires do you limit on a wire nut? (I use the RED Ideas, and limit to 4-5 #12.)


Whatever the manufacturer states would be the limit. But most of the time it's just good old-fashioned 'feel'.



bricktown86 said:


> How far down do you strip your wire before twisting? (I usually strip long, twist together, and on my kliens, there is a relief behind the cutting edge, I line up the insulation of the wire with this relief and cut. Perfect length every time.)


No need to measure. I just strip enough to make the splice, then cut off any excess.



bricktown86 said:


> With grounds- Say you have a 4+ gang box and you have many many runs. How many ground will you put in that BLUE wire nut before you need another? Do any of you guys splice from one wire nut to another? or just drill in another ground screw and pig tail another lead off that?


Again, number of wires depends on the maker. They're not all the same.



bricktown86 said:


> Also, here is a little trick I picked up with those crappy b-caps. If you can get the red ones, 5 ft of 1/2 emt, and a drywall screw, you got a good pigeon shooter. Basically, get your Red buhcannon wirenut, Drill in that drywall screw about half to 3/4 way in so that the point faces out, put it in your 1/2 emt and you can now use it like a blow gun. If you got a framer with a compressor around, it makes things a whole lot funner. Be sure to destroy the evidence though, and dont leave them things layin' around.


All fun and games until someone loses an eye.:no:


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## Golden Arc (Apr 28, 2008)

The first place I ever worked they wouldnt even twist the wires before putting a wire nut on. They used those Ideal twist wire nuts and said its not required with those.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

Tim Crimson said:


> The first place I ever worked they wouldnt even twist the wires before putting a wire nut on. They used those Ideal twist wire nuts and said its not required with those.


correct according to the listing you do not have to pretwist to have a solid connection, actually i believe most if not all ideal wire nuts do not require pretwisting:thumbsup:


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## subelect (Nov 25, 2007)

I asked this question to the previous owner (still works in the shop after 50 years on the job).
He told me that if there would ever be a remote chance that you would want to disconnect a wire from the bundle in the near future, don't pre-twist. It is alot easier to take them apart when they have not been twisted with lineman's pliers.
But, if you definitely need a connection that will never come apart/loosen up, he told me to pre-twist before the wire nut.
Plus, any device that has motion, especially motor terminal boxes, he said to put some electrician's tape on the wire nut and surface of the wire. Kind of overkill, but if you stop and think how cheap tape is, I can't see how it could hurt.


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## Super_33 (Jan 12, 2008)

I twist the  outta mine. I twist until I have at least 1" of tightly twisted insulation. 

Not pre twisting the wires before wire nutting is absolutely rediculous. No matter what 'type' of wire nut you're using or how many wires you're splicing. That 'type' of wire nut may have made it into the bottom of the legal spectrum but don't let the quality of your work suffer because of it. A large portion of house fires are caused from loose or bad splices.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Super_33 said:


> I twist the  outta mine. I twist until I have at least 1" of tightly twisted insulation.
> 
> Not pre twisting the wires before wire nutting is absolutely rediculous. No matter what 'type' of wire nut you're using or how many wires you're splicing. That 'type' of wire nut may have made it into the bottom of the legal spectrum but don't let the quality of your work suffer because of it. A large portion of house fires are caused from loose or bad splices.


I'm in this camp as well. To me, the spring is to simply hold the nut on, not make the electrical connection. My 9kniens make the splice. The wire nut is just an insulator.

The only time I _don't_ pretwist is when I'm splicing all stranded wires.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

I use twisters and a driver in a battery screwdriver and I don't pretwist.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

> ;28539]I asked this question to the previous owner (still works in the shop after 50 years on the job).
> He told me that if there would ever be a remote chance that you would want to disconnect a wire from the bundle in the near future, don't pre-twist. It is alot easier to take them apart when they have not been twisted with lineman's pliers.


hate to tell you but you rboss is wrong. Ideal (and I would presume the other major amnuf. state that pre-twisting is not neccessary but you must twist the wire nut until the wires are twisted together a certain amount, The result is the wires in the nut will get twosted together.





> Plus, any device that has motion, especially motor terminal boxes, he said to put some electrician's tape on the wire nut and surface of the wire. Kind of overkill, but if you stop and think how cheap tape is, I can't see how it could hurt.[


$.50 a roll for 33+ is cheap?. I hate when people put tape on a wire joint. All it does is make a mess when you need to open it up.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Assuming all 12g: If 4 wires on less I never pretwist, I just use the drill with the wire nut driver. 5 plus they get pre twisted. As a general rule, 5 wires in a red wire nut, more than 5 in blue. If there are a ton of ground wires I'll break up the wires between wire nuts, but to be honest I really don't like doing that, but it work and makes for a clean, neat job.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I generally pre-twist, but Ideals don't require it and do a good job of twisting for themselves.

I never exceed the wirenut manufacturer's instructions on number of wires.

As for ECGs, I use Buchanans. I'm not sure I understand, but some inspectors have issues with wirenuts and ECGs, something to do with "permanent connections" I think.

In my experience, inspectors are okay with wirenuts from a device pigtail to an EGC lead in a box, but the ECGs entering and leaving a box have to be crimped.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I always pre-twist neutrals and grounds; you'll never take one of those apart hot. I never pre-twist phases or switch legs, but in reality, once the splice is complete they're pretty well twisted together anyway.

Generally speaking, in my experience, job guys will pre-twist everything, while service guys don't pre-twist anything. Exceptions abound, but it seems to lean that way.

Rob


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

actually if I used solid wire, I probably would pre-twist but since I use stranded, I don't.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

Super_33 said:


> I twist the  outta mine. I twist until I have at least 1" of tightly twisted insulation.
> 
> Not pre twisting the wires before wire nutting is absolutely rediculous. No matter what 'type' of wire nut you're using or how many wires you're splicing. That 'type' of wire nut may have made it into the bottom of the legal spectrum but don't let the quality of your work suffer because of it. A large portion of house fires are caused from loose or bad splices.


I use Idea Twisters, and I don't pre-twist. I just crank down on the wire nut, and it's all twisted together.

I used to pretwist, saw someone not, and called him a butcher. He put on a wire nut, and took it off, and guess what? the wires were twisted together just like I would do with my Kliens. 

Now if I'm doing 4 or 5 wires, I do pre twist, but not with 2 or 3.


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## gardner (Dec 22, 2007)

A different prospective on this subject.. In the 50's, they used to use the old style barrel connectors, crimped and wraped in electrical tape. 
40 years later, a bad connection lead to a melting copper wire. This in turn lead to a half of house failure in lighting and power. I feel that is why they went to a spring in a wire nut. Expansion and contraction of a loose connection, still kept a tight connection because of the spring. 
Also, I make a connection with a wire nut. Then, I try to pull each wire out of the wire nut (slight force). You would be amazed at how many times a wire will pull free. 
Just my thoughts, 
Kris.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

gardner said:


> A different prospective on this subject.. In the 50's, they used to use the old style barrel connectors, crimped and wraped in electrical tape.
> 40 years later, a bad connection lead to a melting copper wire. This in turn lead to a half of house failure in lighting and power. I feel that is why they went to a spring in a wire nut. Expansion and contraction of a loose connection, still kept a tight connection because of the spring.
> Also, I make a connection with a wire nut. Then, I try to pull each wire out of the wire nut (slight force). You would be amazed at how many times a wire will pull free.
> Just my thoughts,
> Kris.


barrel crimps are still legal and still used. They used to solder joints as well but that itsn't legal anymore (just solder). As the times change, new methods and materials are designed.

Twist on wire connectors also allow an easier alteration to the joint than any other type of connection except a polaris.($)


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

I never pretwist and have never come across someone that does. I've only heard of it from travelers and on here. Weird how different practices are used around the country


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I pretwist them when mixing stranded with solid only.


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## a-bulb (Feb 13, 2008)

RUSSIAN said:


> I never pretwist and have never come across someone that does. I've only heard of it from travelers and on here. Weird how different practices are used around the country


Wow! I'm surprised at how many people don't pretwist. I've never met an electrician that didn't. I agree with you about diffrent practices around the country. Funny thing is trade lingo. I was born and raised in CT learned the trade here then moved to FL for a while and the hardest thing was going to the supply house I had to learn material names all over again :laughing:


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## a-bulb (Feb 13, 2008)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I pretwist them when mixing stranded with solid only.


I do the opposite when splicing stranded to solid the wire nut will wrap the stranded around the solid. I find if you pretwist, the stranded will slide down the solid and not get caught under the spring sometimes.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Mixing stranded and solid requires technique, but I usually pretwist them and leave the stranded a little long so it gets picked up first.

I prefer pretwisting because if you have to work a hot circuit, the wires are easier to control.


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## a-bulb (Feb 13, 2008)

waco said:


> Mixing stranded and solid requires technique, but I usually pretwist them and leave the stranded a little long so it gets picked up first.
> 
> I prefer pretwisting because if you have to work a hot circuit, the wires are easier to control.


Ok. :thumbup:


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

Used to pre-twist until I started using the Ideal Twisters. Don't do it any more. My Ideal screwdriver handle has a wirenut driver built into it which works well for getting that extra few twists.

When connecting solid and stranded, I always lead the stranded a little before I put on the wirenut. I also tug on the conductors when I'm done, just to make sure the connection is good.

For making up grounds, I prefer green wire nuts for single devices, and Ideal's In-Sure connectors when there is more than one device.

My wirenut preferences, from best to worst:








Twisters...the best wirenut in the business, bar none








Scotchlok...used to be my fav, still great







Wing nut type...makes a good connection, but kind of flimsy







Wire nut....last resort, I use these only in an emergency


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## Rong (Feb 23, 2008)

I always twist soild wire however we rarely use solid wire around here anymore. I have seen careless electricians not checking the connection after they installed a wire nut and not all the wires were complety seated correctly. Plus I hate it when you open a JB and when you undo the wire nut the wire explodes (meaning wires going everywhere).


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I prefer the "Twisters" to all others (in that range) and Ideal's orange nuts to all other brands. I've had problems with orange nuts making good joints, but never with the Ideal brand.


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