# Is this legal? This Old Hack



## Conduit Phil

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20286269,00.html The guy installs a 3 gang plastic box with the nail tabs sawn off using drywall screws through the side of the box. Legal?


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## chenley

I can't say that I haven't done that before. 

They could have just used a 3-gang old-work box with the swing out tabs to do it the right way.


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## rdr

How you gonna get one of those tabs around the stud if the box isn't deep enough? I'd have been liable to do the exact same thing. 

I like how they have a big pop-up on the screen CONNECT BLACK TO BLACK WHITE TO WHITE AND GROUND TO GROUND. Nice touch.


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## cdnelectrician

You like your plastic boxes over in the US eh? We don't use them much here hehe


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## william1978

Conduit Phil said:


> http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20286269,00.html The guy installs a 3 gang plastic box with the nail tabs sawn off using drywall screws through the side of the box. Legal?


 Whats wrong with screwing screws through the side of the box? I have done it hundreds of times and I think it holds better.


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## cdnelectrician

Just watched the video, how many cables are allowed in a pancake box? only ONE!

Sloppy work.


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## william1978

cdnelectrician said:


> Just watched the video, how many cables are allowed in a pancake box? only ONE!
> 
> Sloppy work.


 Yep... only one.


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## william1978

Welcome to the forum.


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## sparks134

Looks OK, other than its in ROMEX!!!


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## william1978

sparks134 said:


> Looks OK, other than its in ROMEX!!!


 What's wrong with romex? I'm a conduit person myself.


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## sparks134

where do i start...


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## william1978

sparks134 said:


> where do i start...


 Go ahead we have all night.:laughing::laughing:


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## Kevin J

Yes, please enlighten me also.:001_huh:


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## william1978

Kevin J said:


> Yes, please enlighten me also.:001_huh:


 He is from Chicago. And the 11th commandment is Thou shall not use NM-B.


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## JoeKP

william1978 said:


> What's wrong with romex? I'm a conduit person myself.


conduit eh? i really cant see conduit being run in the ceiling, i think romex is much easier than bending pipes, it just doesn't seem practical, unless you were doing it on the outside of the ceiling....


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## JPRO2

I betcha he started drilling and hit the rafter smack on and that where the pan boxs came in lol Im sure he was planning to use regular octagons


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## Wireless

cdnelectrician said:


> Just watched the video, how many cables are allowed in a pancake box? only ONE!
> 
> Sloppy work.


If the canopy is marked it can add to the allowable space. On a side note, who makes joints?


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## Southeast Power

cdnelectrician said:


> Just watched the video, how many cables are allowed in a pancake box? only ONE!
> 
> Canopy space??
> 
> Sloppy work.


Two US

One Canadian


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## TheRick

Conduit Phil said:


> http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20286269,00.html The guy installs a 3 gang plastic box with the nail tabs sawn off using drywall screws through the side of the box. Legal?


No that is not a code compliant installation;

*NEC 2008 - *

*110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.*
*(B)* Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

*314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes.
*Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.

I have never done it myself, but have seen it done dozens of time. That it has been done over and over does not however make it right!


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## user4818

sparks134 said:


> where do i start...


No, please don't.


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## user4818

cdnelectrician said:


> You like your plastic boxes over in the US eh? We don't use them much here hehe


Yes, we certainly do. We install them by the millions. Fast, cheap and they save lots of time. Once upon a time metal was the standard even in residential but those days are long gone.


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## 480sparky

TheRick said:


> No that is not a code compliant installation;
> 
> *NEC 2008 - *
> 
> *110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.*
> *(B)* Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
> 
> *314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes.*
> Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.
> 
> I have never done it myself, but have seen it done dozens of time. That it has been done over and over does not however make it right!


 
So you put some tape over the screws and you're legal.


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## NolaTigaBait

480sparky said:


> So you put some tape over the screws and you're legal.


I countersink mine, when I violate the code.:jester:


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## Grimlock

I install my with PVC Glue, although sometimes there is enough tree sap on the studs to give a nice strong hold without requiring additional PVC cement...

Joking aside I have never met a service technician that has never installed a box using screws on the inside when they had to. What if you run the ground wire around the head of those screws, then it would be no different than the fasteners on a metal box; Grounded. I think a code revision is in order... Allow metal screws inside plastic boxes but ground them!

Problem solved... :nerd:


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## NolaTigaBait

I think it has more to do with possible damage to the conductors than anything else.


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## MF Dagger

I have done that quite a few times. Now I'm pretty well stocked on smart boxes and rarely have to. When I do it's usually that a box was knocked a little loose by the rockers or some other odd situation.


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## NolaTigaBait

MF Dagger said:


> I have done that quite a few times. Now I'm pretty well stocked on smart boxes and rarely have to. When I do it's usually that a box was knocked a little loose by the rockers or some other odd situation.


I really need to get some of those smart boxes.


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## MF Dagger

They are awesome. The knockouts kind of suck in them and it can be a PITA if someone folded wires into one that wasn't neat about it. I use more Smart boxes now than bracket remodels. The fan smart boxes are the cats ass too.


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## robnj772

Smart boxes are the cat's ass I must agree. They are a little deeper then the slater boxes. You can put an extra conductor in them. Saved my butt on a renovation the other day by using a 3 gang smart box instead of a 3 gang nail on.


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## gilbequick

I'd rather screw into the stud than use the wings on an old work box. It holds a lot better and is more secure. If possible I'll use the wings and screw it to the stud. Done it hundreds of times. 

If you think a bare part of an ungrounded or grounded conductor is going to touch the screw, wrap the device with a couple runs of tape.


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## WIREDOG

that guy is a freaking hack. the worst thing is that he showed millions of people how to eliminate our jobs. CLOWN SHOES!


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## John Valdes

Is this the "smart box" you are discussing?


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## egads

Yes, comes in many versions:

http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/Smart-Box/Item/SB1G/


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## Rudeboy

fan rated smart boxes? haven't seen those.


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## AaronJohnTurner

Not the biggest fan of plastic boxes. If anything they're more expensive. When I DO like plastic boxes is for outside walls, that way you don't have to mess with getting a metal box and nails inside of a vapour barrier.


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## robnj772

AaronJohnTurner said:


> Not the biggest fan of plastic boxes. If anything they're more expensive. When I DO like plastic boxes is for outside walls, that way you don't have to mess with getting a metal box and nails inside of a vapour barrier.


 
The vapor barrier would be the tar paper or tyvek wrap .

So your boxes on the outside walls aren't in the vapor barrier

Otherwise the sheetrock and insulation would be wet.

I pay like 55 cents for a plastic nail on,Thats cheaper then metal

The labor factor is less for plastic boxes also.


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## MF Dagger

Rudeboy said:


> fan rated smart boxes? haven't seen those.


It's the exact same box as the normal round with different attachment screws and a metal bracket around the top. And it's 6 bucks more.


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## Mr. Sparkle

Rob,

Is there a supplier in NJ that carries smart boxes or do you mail order?


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## robnj772

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Rob,
> 
> Is there a supplier in NJ that carries smart boxes or do you mail order?


 
Cooper has them

Warshuar has them

Goodfriend has them

Feldman has them

Billows has them

http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/Smart-Box/Item/SB1G/


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## Magnettica

Rahway Electric has them!

They work great!

http://gallery.me.com/electricianron/100483/IMG_3388/web.jpg


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## BuzzKill

Conduit Phil said:


> http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20286269,00.html The guy installs a 3 gang plastic box with the nail tabs sawn off using drywall screws through the side of the box. Legal?


 What a heart warming video! Thanks TOH! It's a bonding jumper, not a ground wire you dufus! 2 wires in pancake box....ehhhh? Who the hell has a helper anyway? LOL...I"m pushing that romex down the wall by myself! Oh, and what the hell is he using a plum bob for? Get a laser dude!


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## Mastertorturer

That's nothing.

Did any of you catch the elecrtician on This Old House when he was hooking up a temporary power box to the overhead service?

He goes up there with his extension ladder. That "host" in this video is on the other side of the service using an aluminum ladder. He cuts the LIVE service wires with non-insulated linesman pliers (knipix if you must know).

He then uses said pliers to score and strip the service conductors to splice. He then uses a non-insulated allenkey set to tighten his splice connector down. Which he then wraps black tape on. All while intermittedly touching bare hot conductor. (He was only isolated from ground by his ladder when he touched it.)

Not exactly the kind of thing I'd want people to see me do on television. What a moron.


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## 220/221

> So you put some tape over the screws and you're legal.


I've been called on this two times over the past 20 years. Each time I just went back and put a dab of caulk over the screws.

Stupid rule. How the hell is a screw terminal or wire going to contact a drywall screw sitting almost flush in the side of the box? If it does, you have some serious issues with your workmanship :jester:


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## NolaTigaBait

220/221 said:


> I've been called on this two times over the past 20 years. Each time I just went back and put a dab of caulk over the screws.
> 
> Stupid rule. How the hell is a screw terminal or wire going to contact a drywall screw sitting almost flush in the side of the box? If it does, you have some serious issues with your workmanship :jester:


Yep.


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## almcvay

What about plasric fan boxes that come with screws to run inside the box?
In some states Drywall screws are for draywall and NOT for boxes.
The head will ring off and the box will be loose.
The one thing iI see wrong is in cold weahter the box will crack.If I were to use screws I would use a # 10 pan hear and per-drill the box

ALM


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## 220/221

> If I were to use screws I would use a # 10 pan hear and per-drill the box


Not if you did it 10 times a day :laughing:

The pan head wouldn't be as good of a fit as they must go in at an angle and the head wouldn't sit flush. The 1" drywall.......err, box mounting, tapered head, sharp point screws are the ticket :thumbup:




> The one thing iI see wrong is in cold weahter the box will crack


I don't know about that. They seems really pliable to me....but I live in the desert.


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## smeric28

TheRick said:


> No that is not a code compliant installation;
> 
> *NEC 2008 - *
> 
> *110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.*
> *(B)* Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
> 
> *314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes.
> *Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.
> 
> I have never done it myself, but have seen it done dozens of time. That it has been done over and over does not however make it right!


How do smart boxes comply with 314.43? They seem to just have the drywall screws preinstalled.


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## JohnJ0906

smeric28 said:


> How do smart boxes comply with 314.43? They seem to just have the drywall screws preinstalled.



http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/Smart-Box/Item/SB1G/

If you check out the pictures, there are molded places for the screws to countersink. That would comply with 314.43



> *314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes.
> *Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside of the box, or *the box shall be constructed so as to prevent contact between *the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.


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## reddog552

*Drywall screws*

This is a pet pieve of mine.I consider use of drywall screws for mounting of anything but drywall a hack. they are allowed by NEC,but have no sheer strenth.


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## I_get_shocked

F that noise I'd use a tandem for the existing junk and a dimmer to the right... in the attic add a 4 square and come off that to each pancake. YEAAAAAABOYYYYYYYYY :thumbup:


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## RePhase277

reddog552 said:


> This is a pet pieve of mine.I consider use of drywall screws for mounting of anything but drywall a hack. they are allowed by NEC,but have no sheer strenth.


Get the f'k outta here.:laughing: Sheetrock screws are the most versatile screw found on a construction site.

Also, tek screws run a close second.


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## NolaTigaBait

InPhase277 said:


> Get the f'k outta here.:laughing: Sheetrock screws are the most versatile screw found on a construction site.
> 
> Also, tek screws run a close second.


I use em all the time. Very versatile. I won;t secure a fan box with them, but a pop-in box will be ok to use.


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## robnj772

reddog552 said:


> This is a pet pieve of mine.I consider use of drywall screws for mounting of anything but drywall a hack. they are allowed by NEC,but have no sheer strenth.


 
:laughing::laughing::laughing:

That is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too funny!!!

The sheer strength???? Of what?????

Old work boxes are held onto sheetrock with just wing nuts WTF do you need sheer strength for?????

What do you use to secure a box? or an exhaust fan? ETC ETC???


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## NolaTigaBait

robnj772 said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> That is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too funny!!!
> 
> The sheer strength???? Of what?????
> 
> Old work boxes are held onto sheetrock with just wing nuts WTF do you need sheer strength for?????
> 
> What do you use to secure a box? or an exhaust fan? ETC ETC???


Lag bolts.


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## rdr

NolaTigaBait said:


> Lag bolts.


Tell me....how do you put in old work boxes with lag bolts? I'm curious. :blink:


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## NolaTigaBait

rdr said:


> Tell me....how do you put in old work boxes with lag bolts? I'm curious. :blink:


I should have used a :jester: after that. I was joking. Didn't you read the post where I said that I use the black screws?


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## rdr

NolaTigaBait said:


> I should have used a :jester: after that. I was joking. Didn't you read the post where I said that I use the black screws?


Apparently not. I almost thought you were dumb enough to be serious about that for a second. Lest I forget the bbq bender :laughing:


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## B4T

I have been using the hack saw and drywall screws method for years.

Now I buy smart boxes, only because they are deeper.

Some here would NEVER do anything that was not code compliant


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> I
> Some here would NEVER do anything that was not code compliant


Really? Do tell!!


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## Rudeboy

If I'm on a job when the rockers are there I end up with a couple of handfulls of sheetrock screws, but if I'm and need some screws at the supply house i usually get a couple boxes of gold screws, different sizes.


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> Really? Do tell!!


:sleep1:any questions


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> :sleep1:any questions


The comedian strikes again. :yawn:


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## pinpoint

New here and had to put my two cents in,

Carlon makes a 1/2 pancake 1/2 deep box thats even rated for a fan that would have cured their problem of hitting the joist.


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## GEORGE D

I believe they sell a nm box that has the screws already inside the box, set up to be drilled to the stud . It doesnt look any different then doing it yourself with a standard nail-in except that it conveniently has the screws ready for you.


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## robnj772

GEORGE D said:


> I believe they sell a nm box that has the screws already inside the box, set up to be drilled to the stud . It doesnt look any different then doing it yourself with a standard nail-in except that it conveniently has the screws ready for you.


Do they REALLY ????? WOW!!!!!!!

What is it called? a Smartbox?????? 

Read forrest! Read!!!!!!


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## Old Spark

Most all residential (new) homes here in Ca. have plastic boxes. Commercial have metal. The plastic boxes vary in quality. Some actually feel more like fiberglass and are much more rigid.


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## leland

TheRick said:


> No that is not a code compliant installation;
> 
> *NEC 2008 - *
> 
> *110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.*
> *(B)* Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
> 
> *314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes.
> *Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.
> 
> I have never done it myself, but have seen it done dozens of time. That it has been done over and over does not however make it right!




314.23(B)(1) Nails and screws... (2008)

That part is Ok.


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## NolaTigaBait

robnj772 said:


> Do they REALLY ????? WOW!!!!!!!
> 
> What is it called? a Smartbox??????
> 
> Read forrest! Read!!!!!!


:laughing:


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## robnj772

This thread is like the movie "Groundhog Day"


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## BryanMD

robnj772 said:


> This thread is like the movie "Groundhog Day"


Once you get past the first 8-12 posts they ALL are.


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## minibdr

Ladies and gentleman this is whats out there wiring the homes and businesses . I am however enjoying the posts we print them and hand them out at the apprentiship school here. The contractors are getting a kick out of it also. You are actually joking about your illegal instalations. Freakin shame.


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## user4818

minibdr said:


> Ladies and gentleman this is whats out there wiring the homes and businesses . I am however enjoying the posts we print them and hand them out at the apprentiship school here. The contractors are getting a kick out of it also. You are actually joking about your illegal instalations. Freakin shame.


Oh wow! Look everybody! Minibdr is back. :notworthy: :notworthy:


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## user4818

minibdr said:


> Ladies and gentleman this is whats out there wiring the homes and businesses . I am however enjoying the posts we print them and hand them out at the apprentiship school here. The contractors are getting a kick out of it also. You are actually joking about your illegal instalations. Freakin shame.



Is this what you actually look like?


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## BuzzKill

minibdr said:


> Ladies and gentleman this is whats out there wiring the homes and businesses . I am however enjoying the posts we print them and hand them out at the apprentiship school here. The contractors are getting a kick out of it also. You are actually joking about your illegal instalations. Freakin shame.


 It's okay, really, we are master electricians.
We make code changes, amendments and such at our behooval...it's a license to kill, baby! 
(quite literally)


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## B4T

minibdr said:


> Ladies and gentleman this is whats out there wiring the homes and businesses . I am however enjoying the posts we print them and hand them out at the apprentiship school here. The contractors are getting a kick out of it also. You are actually joking about your illegal instalations. Freakin shame.


Want a free can of Scotchcote? :whistling2:


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## robnj772

I am so glad MINI Balls D-ck and Rectum is back.....:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## NolaTigaBait

minibdr said:


> Ladies and gentleman this is whats out there wiring the homes and businesses . I am however enjoying the posts we print them and hand them out at the apprentiship school here. The contractors are getting a kick out of it also. You are actually joking about your illegal instalations. Freakin shame.


Doooooooooouuuucccccchhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebbbbbbbbbbbbaggggggggg:thumbsup:


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## B4T

These guys do a drive by.. talk some trash.. and POOF.. they are gone. :no:

What a bunch of wimps


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## minibdr

I simply reply to a thread as such any member of this site is allowed to and this is what I get. You are supposed to be electricians and post the things you do that prove otherwise, I call you on it and I get name calling. Are you guys in third grade still? The electrical skill says so but must the responce as well? You are what the customer gets when they want cheap they know it I know it and you know it and you will survive because people will allways want cheap unskilled labor they think they are saving a buck, it`s humon nature. Just don`t get pissed at me when I call you on it.


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## B4T

minibdr said:


> I simply reply to a thread as such any member of this site is allowed to and this is what I get. You are supposed to be electricians and post the things you do that prove otherwise, I call you on it and I get name calling. Are you guys in third grade still? The electrical skill says so but must the responce as well? You are what the customer gets when they want cheap they know it I know it and you know it and you will survive because people will allways want cheap unskilled labor they think they are saving a buck, it`s humon nature. Just don`t get pissed at me when I call you on it.


Do us all a favor and.. :whistling2:


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## user4818

minibdr said:


> I simply reply to a thread as such any member of this site is allowed to and this is what I get. You are supposed to be electricians and post the things you do that prove otherwise, I call you on it and I get name calling. Are you guys in third grade still? The electrical skill says so but must the responce as well? You are what the customer gets when they want cheap they know it I know it and you know it and you will survive because people will allways want cheap unskilled labor they think they are saving a buck, it`s humon nature. Just don`t get pissed at me when I call you on it.


How's the union koolaid taste?


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## minibdr

Why? Because I call you on your stupid childish games you play here? You laugh at yourselves. You laugh at your lack of skills I don`t get it. Don`t you want to be profesionals? You people that post this garbage are installers. When you speak as such but attempt to represent yourselves are electricians it makes us look bad.


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## Advanced37

reddog552 said:


> This is a pet pieve of mine.I consider use of drywall screws for mounting of anything but drywall a hack. they are allowed by NEC,but have no sheer strenth.



.......+1


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## user4818

minibdr said:


> Why? Because I call you on your stupid childish games you play here? You laugh at yourselves. You laugh at your lack of skills I don`t get it. Don`t you want to be profesionals? You people that post this garbage are installers. When you speak as such but attempt to represent yourselves are electricians it makes us look bad.



Ouch, you got us. Now go back to NYC and continue your brainwashing sessions.


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## minibdr

Teaching profesionalism is brainwashing? Thats your comeback? Thats all you got? lol Talk with pride and knowlege this is a great industry not a hobby.


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## user4818

minibdr said:


> Teaching profesionalism is brainwashing? Thats your comeback? Thats all you got? lol Talk with pride and knowlege this is a great industry not a hobby.


What are you even ranting and raving about? Because a guy used sheetrock screws to hold in a box? Oh, the horror.


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## minibdr

And multiple conductors in an enclousour and it`s a code violation and the fact that these are the simplest instalations that a homeowner does on a daily basis yet you the so called elite self proclaimed " electricians" can`t get it right come here and brag about it. And I~m brainwashed for being profesional for my contractor?


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## paul d.

mini, are you currently working ?


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## Bob Badger

paul d. said:


> mini, are you currently working ?


I sure he is working on a bottle of something.


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## robnj772

minibdr said:


> Why? Because I call you on your stupid childish games you play here? You laugh at yourselves. You laugh at your lack of skills I don`t get it. Don`t you want to be profesionals? .


Yet you come in here and stir up crap,name call etc etc

Your the childish one

And oh yea if your going to use the word professional you should at least spell it correctly

on the other hand at least you are forming complete sentences now .I guess that troll grammar boot camp the union sent you too kinda paid off.

Welcome Back MINI Balls D-ck Rectum...we missed you..... :w00t:


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## electagb

Mastertorturer said:


> That's nothing.
> 
> Did any of you catch the elecrtician on This Old House when he was hooking up a temporary power box to the overhead service?
> 
> He goes up there with his extension ladder. That "host" in this video is on the other side of the service using an aluminum ladder. He cuts the LIVE service wires with non-insulated linesman pliers (knipix if you must know).
> 
> He then uses said pliers to score and strip the service conductors to splice. He then uses a non-insulated allenkey set to tighten his splice connector down. Which he then wraps black tape on. All while intermittedly touching bare hot conductor. (He was only isolated from ground by his ladder when he touched it.)
> 
> Not exactly the kind of thing I'd want people to see me do on television. What a moron.


I noticed the same safety concerns as you when I watched this installation. The lack of insulated gloves and safety glasses is most disturbing. He must have never seen an arc flash because if he did he would be wearing both safety items.


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## robnj772

electagb said:


> I noticed the same safety concerns as you when I watched this installation. The lack of insulated gloves and safety glasses is most disturbing. He must have never seen an arc flash because if he did he would be wearing both safety items.


So you found THAT most disturbing. I think while being on an aluminum ladder with uninsulated pliers the least of your problems would be an arch flash.......

If there is no load.IE the breaker is off,the meter is pulled there is no potential for this arc flash you speak off


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## electagb

robnj772 said:


> So you found THAT most disturbing. I think while being on an aluminum ladder with uninsulated pliers the least of your problems would be an arch flash.......
> 
> If there is no load.IE the breaker is off,the meter is pulled there is no potential for this arc flash you speak off


Let me be clear what was going on here. The host of the show was on the aluminum ladder not the electrician who was performing the bare handed work. Secondly, the metered being pulled has nothing to due with the fact that he is working on an energized sevice lateral from the power company which will supply a very large amount of fault current if he causes a phase to phase(I know its single phase,two hots) or phase to neutral short. So yes, the chances of an arc fault is real and potentially dangerous.


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## Bob Badger

robnj772 said:


> And oh yea if your going to use the word professional you should at least spell it correctly



You bet, spelled wrong it really removes all it's meaning. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger

robnj772 said:


> If there is no load.IE the breaker is off,the meter is pulled there is no potential for this arc flash you speak off


You still run the risk of a hot contacting the messenger which could be a bad day.


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## robnj772

Bob Badger said:


> You still run the risk of a hot contacting the messenger which could be a bad day.


 
Yea but it that happens those gloves and glasses aren't going help much.

My point was more about the metal ladder and bare tools.

But still this thread has been going in circles for 2 months now.....


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## electagb

robnj772 said:


> Yea but it that happens those gloves and glasses aren't going help much.
> 
> My point was more about the metal ladder and bare tools.
> 
> But still this thread has been going in circles for 2 months now.....


Won't help much? Says who? So you ignore all PPE when working on energized wires because you think it won't help much? A very foolish and dangerous mindset for an electrician. My second point was I know working on a metal ladder is dangerous but it was being used by the host Steve of This Old House not the electrician performing the work. Still not a good idea by him to be in the vicinity of the work with a metal ladder. I apologize for adding on to this thread but I just recently signed on to this web site. I'm curious to know is everyone else on here this cavalier when it comes to their own personal safety? I like to leave a jobsite the same way I arrived, in one piece and with my eye sight.

Regards, Alex


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## robnj772

Hey look kids,big Ben,Parliament!!!


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## Bob Badger

robnj772 said:


> Hey look kids,big Ben,Parliament!!!



:laughing:


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## user4818

robnj772 said:


> on the other hand at least you are forming complete sentences now .I guess that troll grammar boot camp the union sent you too kinda paid off.


I think he washed out of that boot camp. :laughing:


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## User14727

Quit using so much damn tape Greeny!!!!!


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## robnj772

aguywithfeet said:


> Quit using so much damn tape Greeny!!!!!


Quit drinking in the day time troll!!!!!!


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## Southeast Power

InPhase277 said:


> Get the f'k outta here.:laughing: Sheetrock screws are the most versatile screw found on a construction site.
> 
> Also, tek screws run a close second.


And the most type of screw found in tires on a construction site.


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## slowmo

like to give an extra squeeze on my device wires with my strippers before i tighten down the screw to make extra sure.


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## sparky723

New to the "Electrician Talk" forum. I come from another forum that is very good ,too. Some of the members here are members there also. I have gotten alot of advice from that other forum, but I keep coming back to this one because I like the extra topic discussions this forum has compared to that one such as the 'Electricians Swap' and etc... :thumbsup:
I watched the video and like some (and unlike some others), I have never put screws into the inside of a box like that (per the question in the OP). It just seems too "Not supposed to be there" for me to do. I really like the winged boxes for old work. After seeing the Smartboxes, I'm probably going to start liking those even more. I DO use drywall screws for hanging boxes. I can say that I have used them on fan boxes and havent had one fall yet. Although I make sure they are long enough and there are plenty spread around. I read through 107 posts before someone finally mentioned the "extra squeeze" on the device wires before tightening. That is a PP of mine. They must be squeezed and going in the direction of the screw turn. I like what someone said about a stack switch and 4 sq. in the attic and a dimmer for the pendants. Maybe the HO didnt want a bigazz 3 ganger cut right above her countertop. And since Im here, did BobBadger used to be called Iwire? (just wondering due to the C.E. photo).


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## iAmCam

I dont know where you guys are from but I know according the the Canadian Electrical Code, you can not use more than a two wire feed into a pan box if it does not have a pan box extention ring.


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## Shockdoc

And they needtwo guys to fish the wire ......that was the most ******** thing I've seen yet. I personally cut all my holes, then enter the attic with cordless drill , light and snake , pull the wire from the last hole , drill plate , attach to medium snake, push down wall, guestimate length, leave uncut loops at other points, and return to floor level to finish up terminations.


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## elecpatsfan

480sparky said:


> So you put some tape over the screws and you're legal.


I looked this up one time and if I remember correctly the wording that is used is something to the extent of "approved coating of screw heads to avoid abrasion". Don't know what an approved coating would be but I have to imagine that tape would dry and fall off eventually. I liked someone's suggestion of using a dab of silicon that's got to be just what the doctor ordered. 
Just for the record, Minibdr, I am a _plastic box penetrator_ myself. I think as far as NEC code violations go, this one's pretty far down there on the totem pole and not worth getting up in arms over.


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## Redogs54

The local AHJ here would have a couple of problems with the installation. I would have used a three gang old work/cut in box. Removing the tabs and screwing the box to a stud is a local violation but is not enforced and I have seen this done many times. They do make boxes with screws in the side for this type of work if an old work box is not desired. Pancake boxes are only allowed to contain one wire. I don't know which circuit he tied on to, typically a two gang switch at the sink contains switches for the dishwasher and disposal but I think he mentioned a fixture above the sink. Locally we can not use either the disposal or dishwasher circuit for a lighting circuit. If the location of the boxes was absolutely critical, ie could not be shifted to avoid the ceilng joist, I would have set a junction box in the attic and run one wire each to the pancake boxes. Romex is perfectly fine in our area. Charlotte, NC


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## Shockdoc

jrannis said:


> And the most type of screw found in tires on a construction site.


I prefer a 3" drywall leaned on a 45degree angle into the tire sidewall. I once had a HVAC guy steal some dimmers from us, I passed him after work while his van sat on an angle with two flats on the same side. Beepbeep


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## McClary’s Electrical

Shockdoc said:


> I prefer a 3" drywall leaned on a 45degree angle into the tire sidewall. I once had a HVAC guy steal some dimmers from us, I passed him after work while his van sat on an angle with two flats on the same side. Beepbeep


 

Between this, and the mailbox post, I'm liking your style:laughing:


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## Shockdoc

mcclary's electrical said:


> Between this, and the mailbox post, I'm liking your style:laughing:


 Never get mad, learned that at Anger management- Get Even:thumbup:


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## elecapp79

We dont use those plastic boxes in Canada.......We only see those in DIY'ers


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