# Sitting for contractor



## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

How long would you guys sit? I am 3 months from becoming a JW and have been sitting for 3 months already. Basically every single week my contractor has been saying "a few more weeks." A week ago they said they will get busy in early June. Right now the wait for apprentices is probably about 2-3 months, but if I take a layoff I get subpay, which is an extra $300 a week, which I have been missing out on! My main concern is that I keep sitting and these jobs never materialize.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> How long would you guys sit? I am 3 months from becoming a JW and have been sitting for 3 months already. Basically every single week my contractor has been saying "a few more weeks." A week ago they said they will get busy in early June. Right now the wait for apprentices is probably about 2-3 months, but if I take a layoff I get subpay, which is an extra $300 a week, which I have been missing out on! My main concern is that I keep sitting and these jobs never materialize.


You are probably breaking a "self-furlough" rule, but more importantly...why would you wait for 1 guy when you could be avail yourself of all the available contractors looking for manpower?

By not collecting the SUB, that might also imply that you are not being forthcoming with the DOL about your unemployment job search....which could severely harm you financially.

If this guy _really_ wants you - even after you have gone back to work for someone else - he can probably "call you by name" or have you sent back as a foreman. ....thats IF he _really_ wants you.

JMO


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Celtic said:


> You are probably breaking a "self-furlough" rule, but more importantly...why would you wait for 1 guy when you could be avail yourself of all the available contractors looking for manpower?
> 
> By not collecting the SUB, that might also imply that you are not being forthcoming with the DOL about your unemployment job search....which could severely harm you financially.
> 
> ...


Like I just said in my post, there aren't contractors looking for manpower. There are 100 apprentices on the books. SUB has nothing to do with the DOL, and "looking for work" is not different whether I am on the books or sitting. Its the same difference. The school tells us to sit sometimes, and I have not been required to look for work since I get work through the hall. I actually am looking for other work anyways.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> Like I just said in my post, there aren't contractors looking for manpower. There are 100 apprentices on the books. SUB has nothing to do with the DOL, and "looking for work" is not different whether I am on the books or sitting. Its the same difference. The school tells us to sit sometimes, and I have not been required to look for work since I get work through the hall. I actually am looking for other work anyways.


If you are not collecting SUB, it must mean you have not signed the out of work list.
If you haven't signed the out of work list, you are not looking for work.
If you are not looking for work, and collecting UI...:whistling2:
In the eyes of the DOL, "sitting" w/o a definite "return to work date" is not the same as "looking for work".

JMO


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Celtic said:


> If you are not collecting SUB, it must mean you have not signed the out of work list.
> If you haven't signed the out of work list, you are not looking for work.
> If you are not looking for work, and collecting UI...:whistling2:
> In the eyes of the DOL, "sitting" w/o a definite "return to work date" is not the same as "looking for work".
> ...



Well Ive been through UI plenty of times and it has never been an issue and hasnt been an issue for anyone else in my local. Its what people do. You never have an official return to work date. Just because you have not signed an out of work list does not mean you are not looking for work and just because you have singed one does not mean you are looking for work. Signing the out of work list and looking for work are two independent issues. If you are out of work you are out of work no matter if you signed a book or not. Your logic makes no sense. Signing the out of work list is irrelevant.

Actually, I think the laws vary by state. I'm in Illinois.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> Well Ive been through UI plenty of times and it has never been an issue and hasnt been an issue for anyone else in my local. Its what people do. You never have an official return to work date. Just because you have not signed an out of work list does not mean you are not looking for work and just because you have singed one does not mean you are looking for work. Signing the out of work list and looking for work are two independent issues. If you are out of work you are out of work no matter if you signed a book or not. Your logic makes no sense. Signing the out of work list is irrelevant.


If you say so :whistling2:

So why aren't you getting the SUB?


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Celtic said:


> If you say so :whistling2:
> 
> So why aren't you getting the SUB?


Because SUB is from our local and we are required to be on the books to get it. Technically I don't think were supposed to sit, but its not enforced by the local.

So back to my original question


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Once you sit you will always be a sitter when things slow down.

Looking back I wasted many years of my life sitting and waiting hoping for better days. 

Go out and get what you want. 

42.40 per hr. with all the benefits in the world means nothing if you are constantly not working. Start averaging it out on a 5 year timeline.  (Yes I understand there are exceptions) 

In this time you could be building something for yourself. 

Right now I assume you're young and your mid-late 20's. when you hit 40 and have some little ones and a mortgage you will look in the mirror and say what the f was I thinking sitting around waiting for things I cannot control. 

I have nothing against the union. Just saying this maybe a snapshot of what is to come on the future. 

From what I have heard they just threw everybody under the bus with the "Helper Designation" 12.60 per hr. This should be a sign for what is to come in the future.

If I was you I would not ask anybody for permission on what you should do. Do what you have to do and think about your future. F everybody else. I mean this to the fullest extent. When the **** hits the fan tell me where your brothers will be.

If UE is your thing then stay your course. Be fore warned this entitlement will make you lazy and dependent. Not right away but over time you will become use to it and know all the rules and how things work. This should be your first sign that you have fallen into a ditch. I could go on and on but all I can say go out and claim what is yours do not ask permission and take no prisoners. Stop sitting around like something will magically change. You will be disappointed if you do. 

I don't care if you make more money on UE than most people make in a week. In the long run it will ruin you. Meaning you will start to think differently. I sat for 2 years then worked for 5 months, now I would be looking at 3 years. F that I have moved on and not looking back.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> Once you sit you will always be a sitter when things slow down.
> 
> Looking back I wasted many years of my life sitting and waiting hoping for better days.
> 
> ...


Good lord. Don't you guys get anything. I'm not asking about after my apprenticship, I'm going to finish my last 3 months regardless of what I do after. My question about "sitting" is not regarding being on the books laid off. I am sitting so I don't have to go on the books. My question is about taking an official layoff from my contractor vs sitting for my contractor to stay with them when things pick back up. Period. Nothing else. I already have plans for after I finish my apprenticeship. I don't get what your saying by "take what is mine." If your referring to subfund that means I will have to take an official layoff from my contractor when there are 100 apprentices on the book. And the helper designation is designed to help us, not hurt us.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Do what you want. As far as sitting goes that makes you a sell out. This is why the books do not move. I know the situation all too well. This is why they will never see another dime from me. Jumping the book, sitting waiting for the contractor, borrowing men from other companies, paying the men 32 hrs. on the books and 1099 for the other 8 so they can save money on the beni's. The list goes on. Where do you draw the line? Or are you if I'm working that is all that counts? Mean while they are dreaming up ways to push you out when the **** really hits the fan. Beleive me it is coming. Good luck.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

henderson14 said:


> Good lord. Don't you guys get anything.


I get all to well.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> Once you sit you will always be a sitter when things slow down.
> 
> Looking back I wasted many years of my life sitting and waiting hoping for better days.
> 
> ...


Your other advice was good and true, and I share the same opinion, but not relevant to what I asked.


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

Make sure you find out from EIT how long your insurance is good for. Eventually you will have to start paying for it out of pocket if you sit too long. 

Also if you eventually do take the layoff you might not be able to get the SUB fund anymore if you don't have enough hours. 

You basically screwed yourself by not taking the layoff from the get-go because now you will be signing the J-man books and you'll be #2,000 instead of apprentice #100 3 months ago.

Either way, good luck


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> Good lord. Don't you guys get anything.


The problem is ~ you don't.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

local134gt said:


> Make sure you find out from EIT how long your insurance is good for. Eventually you will have to start paying for it out of pocket if you sit too long.
> 
> Also if you eventually do take the layoff you might not be able to get the SUB fund anymore if you don't have enough hours.
> 
> ...


 I am also behind on my hours, so I actually have to be working for 3 months. Apprentices actually don't want to top out now. Being behind is a good thing. What has the world come to.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Just got called back today!!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> Once you sit you will always be a sitter when things slow down.
> 
> Looking back I wasted many years of my life sitting and waiting hoping for better days.
> 
> ...


Wow, what a great post and yes I think you 'get it' perfectly.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

I don't. In most cases an apprentice can't just drag up from the union and go work non union.



If there is other opportunities out there, do no sit. Go sign sign the books and get dispatched to a new shop. If the out of work list isn't moving and has s few hundred guys on it, you don't have much choice but to sit


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

You can travel. There are locals that are getting into book 2 and getting overtime jobs. Cali and Oregon are the big ones right now as far as I know. I've heard rumors of work coming up in San Francisco.... the highest paid local in the us 54$+ on the check I believe. The minute I graduate I plan on signing book2 throughout Oregon and California. I refuse to sit at home for 2 ears and wait at the chance of a call. That isn't the kind of life I want.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> You can travel. There are locals that are getting into book 2 and getting overtime jobs. Cali and Oregon are the big ones right now as far as I know. I've heard rumors of work coming up in San Francisco.... the highest paid local in the us 54$+ on the check I believe. The minute I graduate I plan on signing book2 throughout Oregon and California. I refuse to sit at home for 2 ears and wait at the chance of a call. That isn't the kind of life I want.


He's an apprentice... Apprentices don't travel.

Oregon isn't booming other than Portland. Portland has a lot of work right now. Can't speak for California. I know they are building that stadium in san fran. But its a show up hall. Thats an expensive place to sit and camp out waiting for a call


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

jimmy21 said:


> He's an apprentice... Apprentices don't travel.


 
Apprentices are more then able to travel. One 4th year from our local is working down in the States right now. He says it's pretty backwards down there.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jordan_paul said:


> Apprentices are more then able to travel. One 4th year from our local is working down in the States right now. *He says it's pretty backwards down there*.


That is an ignorant statement, I can say the same about places in Canada.

It depends on where you live.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Doesn't everyone say that about other territories.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> Doesn't everyone say that about other territories.


I don't.....well other than West VA.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

In our local if the contractor doesn't work you at least 8hrs in a 21 day period, they have to lay you off. If you haven't signed the out of work list you're condsiderd a member not in good standing and will be denied unemployment benefits unless you're actively seeking work. You will get audited here and must provide a log of your job searches. Stop being a douche and take a layoff.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Sitting for a contractor is stupid. Union or not. No one is gonna look out for you except YOU. The problem with life is, nothing comes easy. Consider this a learning experience and move on son.

The last EC that asked me to sit for him also shorted my H&W by 80 hours. 79 of which I needed to maintain my Insurance. Thank God I kept mt stubs or I would have been out my H&W. Sitting for anyone is not gonna put the food on the table.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Slick Would you do 32's or 24's assuming at the hall there are quite a few ahead of you?


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Sitting for a contractor is stupid. Union or not. No one is gonna look out for you except YOU. The problem with life is, nothing comes easy. Consider this a learning experience and move on son.
> 
> The last EC that asked me to sit for him also shorted my H&W by 80 hours. 79 of which I needed to maintain my Insurance. Thank God I kept mt stubs or I would have been out my H&W. Sitting for anyone is not gonna put the food on the table.


I got called back already. Looks like it wasn't so stupid. Stupid is taking a layoff when there is over a 2 year wait! Being out of work for over 2 years is not going to put food on the table either.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

I was in a similiar situation and really regret asking for a layoff but I did. If you are content with who your working for then stick around or give him a deadline. 
One brother did say that it affects the list in which I agree. 
But, overall when times are bad it doesn't make a bit difference in your earnings at the end. 
Sometimes you'll end up making more money sitting a month or week here and their then signing the list. 
I would suggest riding this one out with your current contractor.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> Slick Would you do 32's or 24's assuming at the hall there are quite a few ahead of you?


Sure. As long as it was approved. In the end, it's the Local who's gonna have my best interest in mind, not the contractor.



henderson14 said:


> I got called back already. Looks like it wasn't so stupid. Stupid is taking a layoff when there is over a 2 year wait! Being out of work for over 2 years is not going to put food on the table either.


Your young, dumb, and short sighted. Great, you took an illegal furlough and it paid off. Congratulations. What about if the call from the EC never came back? How would you explain that to your apprentice director? What about your H&W? Does your local cover the unemployed members? If so, aren't you suppose to call the hiring agent the day your laid off? What if you would of kept waiting and waiting, and waiting????? Every week that goes by, more people will be ahead of you on the list making your wait even longer. Your in apprentice school right? Don't you have to turn in work reports? What did you do, lie on them? Is there apprentices really sitting out for 2 years?


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

henderson14 said:


> I got called back already. Looks like it wasn't so stupid. Stupid is taking a layoff when there is over a 2 year wait! Being out of work for over 2 years is not going to put food on the table either.


Yea that's what brotherhood is all about.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

jimmy21 said:


> Oregon isn't booming other than Portland.


For the record, most of the shops here on the Central coast are busier than s**t but we don't like outsiders so back off :laughing:


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

erics37 said:


> For the record, most of the shops here on the Central coast are busier than s**t but we don't like outsiders so back off :laughing:


Oh ya, how many calls have you put in to the hall?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

jimmy21 said:


> Oh ya, how many calls have you put in to the hall?


None. I mean most of the shops are busy. In-house.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Sure. As long as it was approved. In the end, it's the Local who's gonna have my best interest in mind, not the contractor.
> 
> 
> 
> Your young, dumb, and short sighted. Great, you took an illegal furlough and it paid off. Congratulations. What about if the call from the EC never came back? How would you explain that to your apprentice director? What about your H&W? Does your local cover the unemployed members? If so, aren't you suppose to call the hiring agent the day your laid off? What if you would of kept waiting and waiting, and waiting????? Every week that goes by, more people will be ahead of you on the list making your wait even longer. Your in apprentice school right? Don't you have to turn in work reports? What did you do, lie on them? Is there apprentices really sitting out for 2 years?



The school lets us sit and they told me it was up to me so there was no "explaining to my apprentice director." It was a calculated risk that paid off. It was a tough decision.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

erics37 said:


> None. I mean most of the shops are busy. In-house.


That was my point. Somebody said they were going to sign the books in Oregon. I meant only 48 is putting out book 2. 932 has had a 2 or 3 calls but not going to book 2. 659 had a few calls for a solar plant but I doubt its going to even reach book 2. 280 has calls for Facebook every week that get book 2 and would be a good call to get, but it may be too late to sign.

Hence why I said only 48 is booming


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

All the local union electricians I talk to haven't worked steady for years around here. they build the bay bridge, bart railway currently under construction ,railway being extended, 49er coliseum coming up.
There are a bunch of oil refiners here union Guy told me not much call from them.
All the liberals ,Crap on any industrial projects around here.
A multi billion dollar train project,from sfo. To l.a. about ready to die.
If your union, looking for work around here good luck.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

Lep said:


> All the local union electricians I talk to haven't worked steady for years around here. they build the bay bridge, bart railway currently under construction ,railway being extended, 49er coliseum coming up.
> There are a bunch of oil refiners here union Guy told me not much call from them.
> All the liberals ,Crap on any industrial projects around here.
> A multi billion dollar train project,from sfo. To l.a. about ready to die.
> If your union, looking for work around here good luck.



everyone here is talking about the 49er stadium? Is that going to put out much book 2 labor?


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Well with niner stadium project, local electric railway project extension, plus the oil refinery work. union electricians I know are not too hopeful. mention those projects they just stare at you. I'm not sure what the stadium will do affect the union hall.

The stadium project is already in progress, project is in santa clara,if someone from
Out of area wants to land a job on that project,or others around here.
Good luck


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

troublemaker1701 said:


> Yea that's what brotherhood is all about.


**** "Brotherhood," all I care about is my family. A real man would do what it takes to feed them, not sit on glorified welfare for two years because he's a "union man."


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