# Fun with DIY rental unit outlets



## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

So I finnaly got around to checking the electrical outlets for ground in my new rental unit with a plug in checker, and my bathroom GFR was showing no ground.

I emailed the owners and asked if it was okay if I took a quick look, they said sure, but they have never had any problems.

So this weekend when I had some time:

*Warning: Graphic Images, not recommended for sensitive viewers:* 











So yeah thats neutral going to the neutral screw, a bare copper ground going to the hot screw, and hot just terminated in a wire nut not connected. The grounding wire is labled with an arrow (I thought that meant home run, but I guess they could mean ground/common like in electronics.) And yes this type has termination holes for use instead of the screws.

_I proceeded to back away slowly while not breaking eye contact._

So the worse part about this is that it actually re charged my electric shaver no problem while I was away. Now the only way I could "disconnect this receptical" is to turn off the breaker going to the nearby hot water tank (there is a sub panel for my downstairs unit but I had to use the main breaker). Now unfortunately my meters are at work, but what I think is happening is that this outlet is shorting the unbalanced load when anything is plugged in to it, and so over the course of the day it was able to recharge my electric shaver.

I have emailed this to the owners to see if they know anything about it, or did it themselves. In the meantime any second opinions on what the heck is going on here? Hopefully it is just a DYI receptical replacement and it can just be rewired, I guess I will know more when I bring my meter home on Monday to test the neutral to ground voltage.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

As Anita Bryant used to say,
An electrician without a meter, a screwdriver, and a pair of kleins
is like a day without sunshine. Don't be that day.

The owners of the unit should be put on notice (written notice) that the wiring in the unit is substandard. Since you are an apprentice, I assume you are not qualified to fix (?), nor should you take the liability. Have them send an electrician to repair.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Hmmm, I'll be interested to see what you find with your meter. Unbalanced
neutral might result in a couple volts. Not enough to charge razor or do 
anything else. Let us know what you find. 
P&L


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Hmmm, I'll be interested to see what you find with your meter. Unbalanced
> neutral might result in a couple volts. Not enough to charge razor or do
> anything else. Let us know what you find.
> P&L


Yeah I was thinking about that in the truck after I wrote this, my guess makes no sense does it. I am wrong about it charging my razor, or they are using the ground wire as a hot conductor?

And yes don't worry, I will not do anything other then look at it and take a measurement as I am still an apprentice. I just wanted to collect some information to convince them of an electrician or if I end up having to send pictures to the local inspector when I move out. (its only a 3 month lease)


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

I always love the "it didn't give us any problems " I get a overwhelming feeling that this is the tip of the iceberg there. I can honestly say I wear two hats here. I am a landlord and a contractor that shot reeks of dyi not even handyman level work. Kid put it back together and get out the home finder guys that are that negligent should not be in the business. Send him via email so you have proof that you reported that issue, I not saying run out of the door there screaming but theses things have patterns.


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

They got back to me and they said that they did replace it themselves (probably to upgrade to GFR), but said that they never had any problems with it or any complaints of it not working from tenants, but dont remember ever actually using it.

So yeah I will just check the voltage and its probably just a case of misinformation.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

I should wait to see what you find with your meter, but, I'm going to take a guess:
Since you had to turn off the hot water tank to disconnect this plug, I'll say that
this is part of 240V cct NOT A 120V CCT. If so you'll measure 120 between 
either the black or white and the bond. Between the black and white you'll 
measure 240V. If so, they're using the bond wire as a neutral AND they wired 
the plug backwards. 
Not too confidant in my guess.....but it could be...........


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Just, WOW. I wouldn't touch it. I sure would call the rental company and raise a stink. You can bet, that's not the only problem.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

PlugsAndLights said:


> I should wait to see what you find with your meter, but, I'm going to take a guess:
> Since you had to turn off the hot water tank to disconnect this plug, I'll say that
> this is part of 240V cct NOT A 120V CCT. If so you'll measure 120 between
> either the black or white and the bond. Between the black and white you'll
> ...


I think your on to something.
Only other possibility is the neutral is hot.

Or there's a bare wire on the breaker in the panel :laughing:
In which case as RGH said ...


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

A heads up to electricians:

No end of DIYers think that AC field wiring uses the same conventions as DC automotive wiring.

Automotive wiring always uses Black as common ground.

Green is commonly used as a power conductor -- typically a Dark Green.

White is commonly used as striping -- and pure white -- for this or that. (Aux power to radio harnesses and such inside the dash.)

Keep all of this in mind when you see DIY hack work.

I've seen twist lock power cords wherein the green was the Hot, and black was the Grounding conductor.

Where this gets interesting is when one cord-cap gets the DC automotive scheme -- and the other gets the correct AC field wiring scheme.

Yes, yes, such transpositions have killed people. 

&&&&&&

This is SO common that I never take for granted that a non-electrician will have made the correct connections for any (field assembled) cord cap. 

I always test and inspect.

This issue will become more pronounced with all of the new Americans that we've imported.

Our color scheme is sure to be novel to them.

'Creole wiring' is lethal wiring.


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

PlugsAndLights said:


> I should wait to see what you find with your meter, but, I'm going to take a guess:
> Since you had to turn off the hot water tank to disconnect this plug, I'll say that
> this is part of 240V cct NOT A 120V CCT. If so you'll measure 120 between
> either the black or white and the bond. Between the black and white you'll
> ...


Oops I have been saying ground instead of bonding (I have been out of school for a year and working with ungrounded 24V systems the whole time.)

Do you think that they would have the bonding wire spliced to neutral within the branch circuit and not connected to any true bonding wire, or would this bonding wire they are using as a neutral be part of the whole bonding system and goes back to the bonding bus on the panel?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Another day as a minority on this DIY rock....:no:~CS~


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

!Tom said:


> Do you think that they would have the bonding wire spliced to neutral within the branch circuit and not connected to any true bonding wire, or would this bonding wire they are using as a neutral be part of the whole bonding system and goes back to the bonding bus on the panel?


*If* they powered this plug off the 240V water heater cct, there'd be 
no neutral there for them to use. Right? 
Two other things:
1)If everything in my other post measures as I guessed except that the 
black to bond measures zero, that indicates they've done what I said 
but marretted off the black at both ends. 
2)You're plug tester didn't show the hot/neutral as reversed, but think 
about this: If you were to put your voltmeter between a hot and a 
neutral with no ability to check any other points, would you be able to
tell which was which?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

How do I keep ending up on the Canadian section of this site????
"Marretted'? WTF is that? Is "wirenut" that difficult for our English speaking members?
Sheesh!
jk.


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## danhasenauer (Jun 10, 2009)

joebanana said:


> How do I keep ending up on the Canadian section of this site????
> "Marretted'? WTF is that? Is "wirenut" that difficult for our English speaking members?
> Sheesh!
> jk.


Shhhhh! Don't pi$$ them off too much or else they'll build that wall and make us pay for it............


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Careful boys ... Don't make me get out the Maple syrup and feathers :hammer:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

:lol:~CS~:lol:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Another day as a minority on this DIY rock....:no:~CS~




With the DIYs ruling their forums as pro experts :laughing::no:


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

PlugsAndLights said:


> *If* they powered this plug off the 240V water heater cct, there'd be
> no neutral there for them to use. Right?
> Two other things:
> 1)If everything in my other post measures as I guessed except that the
> ...


Yeah that makes sense.

Also I just looked and the hot water heater has been converted to gas, and I am thinking that the bathroom might be the newest part of the house and that outlet is the only thing on its circuit.

That means I can turn the circuit off and I will both probably not die in my sleep and we can still keep things warm.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

im sure i know, but whats a GFR?:laughing:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

My google box says "Glomerular filtration rate"


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

sounds good to me! whats that mean?:laughing:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Heck... now I have to go look again!? Ok but only because you're cool.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gfr


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Got to love it, I bet the installer charged like a pro.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Majewski said:


> Heck... now I have to go look again!? Ok but only because you're cool.
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gfr


Now there's something that will come in handy :laughing::laughing:


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

When at work today ask your Jman how to use this quick dirty little trick. You'll be able to identify hot line in a second. Don't ever use this thing for more than that. But a useful tool in this case.


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

PlugsAndLights said:


> *If* they powered this plug off the 240V water heater cct, there'd be
> no neutral there for them to use. Right?
> Two other things:
> 1)If everything in my other post measures as I guessed except that the
> ...


Yup, 120 volts from the white wire the the bare wire. I didint bother opening it up again to check the black wire as just the fact thats its 120 from neutral to ground is enough to know they are going to have to call someone licensed to deal with it anyway.

What I am trying to figure out now is if the new gas water heater is using the old circuit to light up so I know if I can just keep the HWT circuit off for now. I don't think it is because it seems to be integrated with the furnace now witch has its own circuit (the vent on the top goes to the furnace unit.) I actually couldn't find any wiring to the hot water tank, but it has some wires runing from the timmer to the insides. How does that work?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

RGH said:


> View attachment 75713
> 
> 
> When at work today ask your Jman how to use this quick dirty little trick. You'll be able to identify hot line in a second. Don't ever use this thing for more than that. But a useful tool in this case.


Proof you were around before Volt Tic's RG......:whistling2:~CS~:thumbup:


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

!Tom said:


> Yup, 120 volts from the white wire the the bare wire. I didint bother opening it up again to check the black wire as they are going to have to call someone licensed to deal with it anyway.
> 
> What I am trying to figure out now is if the new gas water heater is using the old circuit to light up so I know if I can just keep the HWT circuit off for now. I don't think it is because it seems to be integrated with the furnace now witch has its own circuit (the vent on the top goes to the furnace unit.) I actually couldn't find any wiring to the hot water tank, but it has some wires runing from the timmer to the insides. How does that work?


Gas hot water heaters don't need external power for their control circuits,
only for the power vent. Not all gas hot water tanks have a power vent. 
The power vent is a plug in fan on top of the unit.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Just few (decades) Steve lol. I was lucky to have a great master with even more patience!!!


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Gas hot water heaters don't need external power for their control circuits,
> only for the power vent. Not all gas hot water tanks have a power vent.
> The power vent is a plug in fan on top of the unit.


Ok good, yeah the furnace does the exausting for it.

Well good guess you got it right after all.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

!Tom said:


> Ok good, yeah the furnace does the exausting for it.
> 
> Well good guess you got it right after all.


Glad I could help !Tom. 
BTW, as well as being an electrical contractor I also own a couple 
rental properties. From the landlord point of view I'll say; give your 
landlord a break and don't find any more faults for a while. They 
probably have enough problems..............
Not that you shouldn't have a properly wired GF receptacle. 
Cheers,
P&L


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Glad I could help !Tom.
> BTW, as well as being an electrical contractor I also own a couple
> rental properties. From the landlord point of view I'll say; give your
> landlord a break and don't find any more faults for a while. They
> ...


Yeah I told them I wasent going out of my way to find stuff, but yes I just cant leave an ungrounded receptacle alone encase someone gets killed and I never said anything. They are happy to just keep that breaker off indefinitely, I don't care that I have no bathroom receptacle.


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