# Mix matching breakers



## ElectricalArtist (Jul 2, 2014)

Is it allowed to miss match Breakers that would fit in a panel? Is this against code? will it void homeowners insurance?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

How do I get off this planet??


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

ElectricalArtist said:


> Is it allowed to miss match Breakers that would fit in a panel? Is this against code? will it void homeowners insurance?


Yes, you can definitely use FPE breakers in a Pushmatic panel.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

ElectricalArtist said:


> Is it allowed to miss match Breakers that would fit in a panel? Is this against code? will it void homeowners insurance?


Rule of thumb is the HO's insurance does not
want to pay out , so if you do work , assuming you 
have the appropriate commercial liability insurance
that is specific to the classification of work your 
performing , the HO's homeowner insurance will not
hesitate to balk and go after your policy to cover a 
fire that starts in an area of work you performed.

The real question you should ask is , "why do I want to 
mismatch circuit breakers in an electrical distribution
panel?"


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## ElectricalArtist (Jul 2, 2014)

I was on a job that was already roughed in and the panel was full. It was a cutler hammer panel and we sent someone to home depot . He couldn't find cutler hammer or eaton tandoms . I know ge will fit but i didn't think they are allowed. I was told by someone" it should be ok" i don't believe it's ok


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

......


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## btharmy2 (Mar 11, 2017)

ElectricalArtist said:


> Is it allowed to miss match Breakers that would fit in a panel? Is this against code? will it void homeowners insurance?


Keep them the same. Why do anything different? The average Joe doesn't care about voiding the UL listing by putting in the wrong breaker. I guarantee the insurance company and lawyer will notice. Just because it fits doesn't mean it is right.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

You can. I put have put eaton breakers in GE and Square D homeline panels before and not had a problem. Just read the instructions that come with the breaker.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> ......


Eloquently stated.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f29/ah-burns-when-you-get-your-siemen-229889/


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

How about when you put a 2 pole CH br series gfi breaker in an Eaton Pool panel for a pool motor? An ass backwards deal?

I just did cause I had one in the box from some old pool job that got canceled ten or fifteen yrs ago. I lost zero sleep doing it, but haven't had my final Insp. yet.....


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Shouldn't be a problem. When that piece of garbage GE breaker goes up in smoke, there won't be anything left for the insurance investigator to see.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> How about when you put a 2 pole CH br series gfi breaker in an Eaton Pool panel for a pool motor? An ass backwards deal?
> 
> I just did cause I had one in the box from some old pool job that got canceled ten or fifteen yrs ago. I lost zero sleep doing it, but haven't had my final Insp. yet.....



Eaton BR covers a wide spectrum of "legacy" stuff - Challenger, Westinghouse, Bryant and finally Cutler Hammer which is now all called Eaton. You could also sneak General Switch and T&B breakers in there too. Functionally it has not changed. You can take the guts out of a 1990 Challenger panel and swap brand new Eaton guts into it and there is zero difference whatsoever.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MTW said:


> Eaton BR covers a wide spectrum of "legacy" stuff - Challenger, Westinghouse, Bryant and finally Cutler Hammer which is now all called Eaton. You could also sneak General Switch and T&B breakers in there too. Functionally it has not changed. You can take the guts out of a 1990 Challenger panel and swap brand new Eaton guts into it and there is zero difference whatsoever.


That's not the point, you are getting it backwards even though I put in a clue line for the really dull posters to see so they won't go "it's ok, Eaton BR covers a wide spectrum of legacy stuff" . I didn't put an Eaton into a CH panel, I put a CH into an Eaton panel, and I Guarantee that Eaton never paid to have that listed....


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> That's not the point, you are getting it backwards even though I put in a clue line for the really dull posters to see so they won't go "it's ok, Eaton BR covers a wide spectrum of legacy stuff" . I didn't put an Eaton into a CH panel, I put a CH into an Eaton panel, and I Guarantee that Eaton never paid to have that listed....


It has the exact same UL listing number on it, so nothing has changed.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

The real world answer is -- It's fine. Nobody cares.

But it won't pass inspection.


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## btharmy2 (Mar 11, 2017)

If you are going to "cheat" I would choose something besides a GE piece of junk to use.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

matt1124 said:


> You can. I put have put eaton breakers in GE and Square D homeline panels before and not had a problem. Just read the instructions that come with the breaker.


This subject comes up often, so I will post it again. 
The photo is a Homeline on the left and Siemens on the right. Note the "foot" that holds and centers the breaker in the panel. The Homeline slot is off center and smaller than the Siemens (and other commons 1" breakers). 
If you jam a Homeline in another panel they lock in tilted, the bus contact points then do not have even pressure. This can cause a hot spot and ruin the bus. Jam one in, load it up an you will see it on a thermal scan. Homeline are purposely designed to not fit in other panels. 
Other breakers in a Homeline panel will not lock in centered. They flop around.
If you really want another reason to not mix brands of breaker do a selective coordination study.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

drsparky said:


> This subject comes up often, so I will post it again.
> The photo is a Homeline on the left and Siemens on the right. Note the "foot" that holds and centers the breaker in the panel. The Homeline slot is off center and smaller than the Siemens (and other commons 1" breakers).
> If you jam a Homeline in another panel they lock in tilted, the bus contact points then do not have even pressure. This can cause a hot spot and ruin the bus. Jam one in, load it up an you will see it on a thermal scan. Homeline are purposely designed to not fit in other panels.
> Other breakers in a Homeline panel will not lock in centered. They flop around.
> If you really want another reason to not mix brands of breaker do a selective coordination study.


I was alluding to a classified breaker


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> The real world answer is -- It's fine. Nobody cares.


In this case I completely disagree. Mixing and matching breakers is amateur hack work. I will make many compromises but this is not one of them. The fact is that all breakers have small differences between brands which can ultimately cause buss failure.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I never mix breakers and panels.

That should tell you something about how hack and bad it really is.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

matt1124 said:


> I was alluding to a classified breaker


Here is what Square D has to say about classified breakers.

https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Classified_Breaker_Warning.php

It would look bad in court when a lawyer asked why you disregarded cautions and warnings to save a few bucks.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

drsparky said:


> Here is what Square D has to say about classified breakers.
> 
> https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Classified_Breaker_Warning.php
> 
> It would look bad in court when a lawyer asked why you disregarded cautions and warnings to save a few bucks.


They aren't my favorite option of course, original is always better.

I never understood the classified QO version. Theres either that, or actual QO. Why not carry genuine in this case? A supply house here carries the Eaton classified QO because they sell Eaton, but the other literally one a block away is a Square D distributor, and they have the genuine. It's so easy to just pop over and grab what you need.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

matt1124 said:


> They aren't my favorite option of course, original is always better.
> 
> I never understood the classified QO version. Theres either that, or actual QO. Why not carry genuine in this case? A supply house here carries the Eaton classified QO because they sell Eaton, but the other literally one a block away is a Square D distributor, and they have the genuine. It's so easy to just pop over and grab what you need.


It's because Square D is very selective about their distribution channel. Secondly, a Square D dealer can contractually only sell Square D. They cannot have a second line. So, that Eaton dealer can sell classified breakers, but the Square D dealer cannot sell any other brand of breaker.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Huh?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> It's because Square D is very selective about their distribution channel. Secondly, a Square D dealer can contractually only sell Square D. They cannot have a second line. So, that Eaton dealer can sell classified breakers, but the Square D dealer cannot sell any other brand of breaker.


Not true. My sonepar owned supply house sells sq. D, Siemens, GE.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> Not true. My sonepar owned supply house sells sq. D, Siemens, GE.


Every supply house here sells all major brands of breakers, including those that only sell Square D panels.

Who would patronize a supply house that did not stock the most basic item that an electrician needs?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Not true. My sonepar owned supply house sells sq. D, Siemens, GE.


Prove it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Every supply house here sells all major brands of breakers, including those that only sell Square D panels.
> 
> Who would patronize a supply house that did not stock the most basic item that an electrician needs?


Breakers, yes. But if they are selling Square D panels they cannot sell other brands of panels, motor starters, switchgear, etc.

You can argue about this all you want but it's a verifiable fact.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> Prove it.


I have nothing to prove to you other than to say that your statement about Sq. D is incorrect. When I order online, I can order Sq. D, Siemens or GE from one supply house.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> I have nothing to prove to you other than to say that your statement about Sq. D is incorrect. When I order online, I can order Sq. D, Siemens or GE from one supply house.


You can order breakers but you cannot order Square D panels from one source that sells other brands.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Breakers, yes. But if they are selling Square D panels they cannot sell other brands of panels, motor starters, switchgear, etc.
> 
> You can argue about this all you want but it's a verifiable fact.


We were talking about breakers you fool. You replied to Matt who was specifically talking about a supply house not carrying QO breakers.

You have now officially taken over for chicken Steve.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> We were talking about breakers you fool. You replied to Matt who was specifically talking about a supply house not carrying QO breakers.
> 
> You have now officially taken over for chicken Steve.


Thanks forum mom.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Thanks forum mom.


Just like Steve, you won't admit you were wrong.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> You can order breakers but you cannot order Square D panels from one source that sells other brands.


Not true. If I wanted to, I could order a Sq. D panels as well.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Just like Steve, you won't admit you were wrong.



Everything I've said is true and verifiable.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Not true. If I wanted to, I could order a Sq. D panels as well.


Then they are violating their contract rules to sell Square D.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> Then they are violating their contract rules to sell Square D.


I am unaware as to what the contract is between Sq. D and this supply house.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Everything I've said is true and verifiable.


Liar.



> It's because Square D is very selective about their distribution channel. Secondly, a Square D dealer can contractually only sell Square D.


I can buy any brand breaker at Cooper and the other supply houses that only sell Square D panels and gear.

We were talking about breakers when you decided to ruin yet another thread 

Now let's see if you do the right thing...


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Liar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I stand by what I said. If those supplier are selling other brands of breakers, they are doing it via the gray market. They are sold through channels like Breakers Unlimited through the supply house.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> I stand by what I said. If those supplier are selling other brands of breakers, they are doing it via the gray market. They are sold through channels like Breakers Unlimited through the supply house.


I don’t think Sq. D breakers are as exclusive to one supply house as you mentioned.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Chris, I think it's time we both give up on Peter. 

I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but he has become the exact same thing that he constantly laments.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> I don’t think Sq. D breakers are as exclusive to one supply house as you mentioned.


I just explained how Square D breakers are sold on the gray market. I worked at a supply house and I know how this process works.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Chris, I think it's time we both give up on Peter.
> 
> I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but he has become the exact same thing that he constantly laments.


Or could it be you're the one that can't admit to being wrong?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It's so tragic that Peter D died such a fiery death. He was so young, but too old to be a virgin.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> I just explained how Square D breakers are sold on the gray market. I worked at a supply house and I know how this process works.


I just went to my supply house website and yes, I can order a Sq. D panel from them.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> It's so tragic that Peter D died such a fiery death. He was so young, but too old to be a virgin.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> I just went to my supply house website and yes, I can order a Sq. D panel from them.


Show the screen shot.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> Show the screen shot.


Not going to happen. It can be done ordering the Sq. D panels. You just don’t know all the facts.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Not going to happen. It can be done ordering the Sq. D panels. You just don’t know all the facts.


The burden of proof is on you. You can't provide a screen shot because you're lying.


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## GeneC (Aug 28, 2017)

Why not just get right breaker from supply house. Mine (CES) carries them. If need be order it. I have seen results of handy work from HO and mismatched breakers. All resulted in buss failures. All resulted in panel changes. Cost them money but now they are safe. "I didn't think it mattered" was the stock answer. HD and L's are ok for boxes, fittings and such in a pinch, but I never buy anything else there unless emergency. My supplier has what I need and delivers to job within 1/2 hour even if it a receptacle. They do not carry SQ D and will not order but have approved breakers that fit. Point is if your name is on it and you are the last pair of hands in that panel, you own it. CH is a good reliable brand now and all I use in my commercial work.


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

Where it gets dicey is when you have manufacturers who have gone out of business like, Zinsco/Sylvania/Challenger, Wadsworth, FPE, and the only thing out there is either the used market, or a UL classified breaker from UBI, then you have name changes like ITE Circuit Breaker Co., ITE Imperial Corp., Gould/ITE, ITE Electrical Products, that Siemens is the successor company, which also applies to Murray/Crouse-Hinds/Murray, The Siemens QP, & current Murray MP are both breaker designs that were introduced when Gould Inc. owned ITE in the late 1970's. To my knowledge, SQ D Homeline is not UL classified to be used in any competitive makes of panel, Eaton & Siemens both make a UL Classified replacement for QO, the list goes on and on....


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> The burden of proof is on you. You can't provide a screen shot because you're lying.


You brought up the whole contractual exclusivity agreement Sq. D has with Supply house’s. I’m telling you that you are wrong. I have nothing to prove to you. The burden of proof lies with you for spouting off about something you clearly know nothing about.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

This new to the area company that bought out Rasko Supply (One Source Distributors) will only sell square-d breakers and panels now that the stock of Eaton is pretty well gone. I saw the card table with the Eaton left over panels so you could pick up one still technically, but they told me that once they are all cleared out that's it, Square -d only. So after that I only go to them for three phase, large size conduit stuff, 1/0 ser cable and other stuff Home Depot don't carry. When I get stuck for special breakers that are not square d I will have to go to Wesco, the company that won't accept cash or checks, credit card only or have an account .........


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> You brought up the whole contractual exclusivity agreement Sq. D has with Supply house’s. I’m telling you that you are wrong. I have nothing to prove to you. The burden of proof lies with you for spouting off about something you clearly know nothing about.


If they are selling multiple lines, they cannot be sold at the same store. I'm guessing Sonepar bought up multiple suppliers in your area that sold different brands and combined the different chains into one. That would explain it. I know far more about this than you do, clearly.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> If they are selling multiple lines, they cannot be sold at the same store. I'm guessing Sonepar bought up multiple suppliers in your area that sold different brands and combined the different chains into one. That would explain it. I know far more about this than you do, clearly.


I agree. You are correct.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> It's so tragic that Peter D died such a fiery death. He was so young, but too old to be a virgin.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Cooper, one of the largest suppliers around is apparently selling black market material 

A search for loadcenters:










A search for 20A breaker:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Cooper, one of the largest suppliers around is apparently selling black market material
> 
> A search for loadcenters:


We've already established that a large chain like Sonepar (which owns Cooper) sells multiple lines because they bought out individual chains and rolled them into one. 

As I said before, you can't buy Square D products at the same location as other brands. So yes, one Cooper store might sell GE or CH while another has Square D only. 

But go on, continue to desperately attempt to prove me wrong. :thumbup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wow, this can't be true. Last Tuesday I just could NOT have bought both a Murray panel and a Sq D panel as well as Sq D breakers and Siemens breakers from a local supply house (not Copper, I don't go there much).


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wow, look at all these different brands of breakers all sold in-store at my closest Cooper location:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

The answer is simple - these are not "full line" Square D distributors then.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Y'all better step off my man Peter D. I've got an account with Uhaul and can get one at a moments notice.

But I do have a question: Why can Home Depot and Lowe's, and others, sell Square D and other brands but supply houses can't?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> Y'all better step off my man Peter D. I've got an account with Uhaul and can get one at a moments notice.
> 
> But I do have a question: Why can Home Depot and Lowe's, and others, sell Square D and other brands but supply houses can't?


Every supply house that I have been to (which is a lot in my area) as well as Lowes, Home Depot, etc. sells Square D and most other brands. Some might leave one or two brands out, but it varies.

Some places are mainly Square D, like Cooper. Cooper is the supplier that gave me the QO membership plan that allowed me to buy QO panels and breakers for super cheap, less than Murray. But they still sell all brands of breakers and some other brands of panels.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> Y'all better step off my man Peter D. I've got an account with Uhaul and can get one at a moments notice.


He's dead now. 



> But I do have a question: Why can Home Depot and Lowe's, and others, sell Square D and other brands but supply houses can't?


It has to do with being a "full line" distributor or not. A full line Square D distributor literally can sell everything SQD makes, but that is all they sell and is all they are contractually obligated to sell. Graybar is a prime example. 

All the SQD distributors in my area are full line and don't offer competitive products.

Conversely, places like HD and Lowes are obviously not full line. You can't buy motor starters, meter stacks, gear, industrial breakers, etc.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

MTW said:


> He's dead now.


So tragic. That must have been painful for you. Does BBQ know?



> It has to do with being a "full line" distributor or not. A full line Square D distributor literally can sell everything SQD makes, but that is all they sell and is all they are contractually obligated to sell. Graybar is a prime example.
> 
> All the SQD distributors in my area are full line and don't offer competitive products.
> 
> Conversely, places like HD and Lowes are obviously not full line. You can't buy motor starters, meter stacks, gear, industrial breakers, etc.


I see.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Isn't Graybar strictly Square-D?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> So tragic. That must have been painful for you. Does BBQ know?


No, but Chris is not taking it well from what I've heard. 





> I see.


:lol:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Isn't Graybar strictly Square-D?


Yes. They are a full line SQD distributor.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> No, but Chris is not taking it well from what I've heard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m busy watching Caddyshack.:thumbup::laughing:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> I’m busy watching Caddyshack.:thumbup::laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I have to sincerely apologize. I was dead wrong.

When we were talking about supply houses, I made the stupid mistake of believing we were speaking about all supply houses, or at least the majority of them.

I was an idiot to not know that we were only speaking about the 0.01% of supply houses that support Peter's narrative. 

When I visit his grace I will tell him he was right.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

To get back on topic, in a situation in which your work won't be scrutinized and you could get away with using a mismatched breaker, there is no reason to use a cheater at all. Just make yourself an open spot by doubling up a couple of general use circuits that you know don't get much loaded on them.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I have to sincerely apologize. I was dead wrong.
> 
> When we were talking about supply houses, I made the stupid mistake of believing we were speaking about all supply houses, or at least the majority of them.
> 
> ...


Yeah, .01%. That's accurate.  But at least you're capable of admitting that you're wrong. :thumbsup:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I have to sincerely apologize. I was dead wrong.
> 
> When we were talking about supply houses, I made the stupid mistake of believing we were speaking about all supply houses, or at least the majority of them.
> 
> ...


You shall bow to the king of all electricians. Do not, I repeat. Do not look him in the eye. Dilly Dilly.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Sir Brad will give you personal tour of the pit of misery.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I can buy Sq. D along with other brand electrical panels.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> View attachment 117010
> 
> 
> I can buy Sq. D along with other brand electrical panels.


We all can, except for the deceased.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

HackWork said:


> We all can, except for the deceased.


Hopefully he died a quick death.:thumbup:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Chris1971 said:


> Hopefully he died a quick death.:thumbup:


Oh, this is funny to you? You're a bastard. One of the greatest humans to ever wall the Earth gave the best years of his life to you, and all you have is a Fonzie smilie? Even Hax acknowledged this tragedy in his tag line, but you just grin. This is what Peter was talking about in his last days.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> Hopefully he died a quick death.:thumbup:


Peter has been very rude to me lately and dissolved our friendship. So I hope his last minutes were slow enough for him to live thru that again and understand how wrong his insolence truly was.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

I've probably posted this before, but it comes up again time to time, so it's worth restating. I used to work for Siemens and was a "breaker guy" inside.

There are two "components" to a load center that need UL listing; the panel, and the breakers. Manufacturers have to spend a BUTTLOAD of money with UL to list a device, upwards of $50k per LINE ITEM. So when they test a panel, that line item cost has to be amortized over a relatively low number of products sold, compared to the cost of listing a breaker, which will be sold by the millions. Breakers must also be listed with specific panels as well, but because there is so much more volume, the costs, distributed among millions of devices, is relatively low. Save that issue in your mind for later...

So to get a panel listed, it must be listed WITH the breakers intended for use with it. When Siemens then goes to list their panel, they have ZERO incentive to list their panel with an Eaton circuit breaker inside of it. Their panels are therefor ONLY listed with their OWN breakers. So when doing new construction and getting a job inspected, technically if you install ANYTHING in that panel that was not listed WITH that panel, you have voided the UL listing.

But when doing RETROFIT work, where the panel has _already _been installed and inspected (presumably), ADDING a breaker to it then becomes a BREAKER listing issue, not a panel listing issue, because the panel is ALREADY there. So breaker mfrs make what are called "Classified" breakers where they *TEST their breakers in a competitor's panel*. So when Eaton wants to "classify" a breaker to work in a Siemens panel, they buy a Siemens panel and do a $50k destructive test with UL. If it passes, that Eaton breaker is now "Classified" to work in ANY Siemens panel _*that uses the same bus bar and mounting system*_. So remember that cost earlier? If you can sell millions more of a breaker by classifying it to work with competitor's panels, the cost of destructive testing of a competitor's panel becomes insignificant.

The caveat is however, that when you buy a Classified breaker, _*it comes with a SPECIFIC list of panels that it can be plugged into*_. There is no interpretation or deviation or guessing, it is very exact. So as an electrical professional it is incumbent upon YOU to know exactly what you are doing when installing a Classified breaker. An AHJ can in fact require you to produce documentation as to the suitability of a Classified breaker for your panel, so if you tossed the packaging, you may be stuck replacing it. Also, just because it will fit does NOT mean it is legally allowable, that has almost nothing to do with it. It must be TESTED and listed for the purpose. Anything else is hack work. As a side note, most GE THQP breakers will physically fit, but are NOT classified to work in other mfrs' panels. And then Tandem breakers add a whole other kettle of fish, because in some panels, you cannot use tandems even of the SAME mfr!

By the way, EVERY manufacturer has a letter similar to the one Sq. D put out, claiming how unsafe it is to use a competitor's breaker inside of their panel. They HAVE to say that, it's a CYA move pushed by their lawyers. If you put a Siemens classified QO replacement breaker into a Sq. D panel and it causes a fire, Sq. D can point back to that letter and say they "warned you"; it gets them off the hook. Siemens would technically be on the hook _*if *_the problem turned out to be a product defect.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

They advertise the classified breakers like that's all you need on the truck but I have quickly figured out that actual approved panel list is VERY limited.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

When I first went into business I looked around for the classified breakers but no one had them locally. I looked online but they were very expensive. So I did what normal electrician do and stocked up on basic brands of breakers. They don't take up much space at all.

Five years later I have never been in a situation in which I wish I had a classified breaker on the truck.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> When I first went into business I looked around for the classified breakers but no one had them locally. I looked online but they were very expensive. So I did what normal electrician do and stocked up on basic brands of breakers. They don't take up much space at all.
> 
> Five years later I have never been in a situation in which I wish I had a classified breaker on the truck.


About 10 years ago a small hardware store was closing down and selling a lot of stuff cheap. I picked up a total of 80 classified breakers they were selling for $1 apiece, including a few of the QO-style. I have long since used them. I haven't re-stocked them, because nobody has them readily available. I have no regrets.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Peter, Delande is a full line sq D distributor and they sell Eaton BR breakers as well


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