# Residential rough in pro tips for speed



## Sparkyjo (Sep 29, 2018)

Hey guys I would love some tips from resi guys on how to rough in houses/basements faster and more efficient as I've worked commercial my whole career but I'm now picking up more resi jobs. Any tips would be helpful but my main concern is recessed lighting layout/installing smash plates faster as I'm sure there are tricks that I'm not aware of. I currently run twine for my center lines, then put up my smash plates but I'm finding this to be a little time consuming. I've heard of guys not even using smash plate because they are a pita and they'll save about $3 per light by not using them, they run all the wires to joist cavities where lights will be and then come back right after drywall before tapping, chalk out their cross hairs and drill out the lights themselve opposed to having drywallers router them out. I would love to hear your opinions/tips, 
Thanks


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Use a line laser or chalk line on the floor and then shoot a beam up with a laser plumb. Forget about wafer lights in new construction. Use cans.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If the customer agrees, I use these with an octagon box.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Ladders are usually slower than a Baker//Perry scaffold.

With a sabre saw// Sawzall you can trim plywood into a setting jig.

One then simply sets the jig with speed-clamps.

Then tosses the can where it must go and screw it.

Working off a scaffold, you can daisy chain your make-up at the same time.

Use a rotating // or fanning laser to establish your main line of advance.

Place the fanning laser on an off-set so that you don't block it when setting the jig.

As for the jig: Imagine it's a portion of the final build -- drywall. 

This also allows you to dial in the can's final flush fit at the same time.

With the above scheme, you can place an entire room's full of cans on your Baker... so less humping up and down.

Drill all standard top plates while walking the floor -- use a robust extention.

Go cordless.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Join our club by filling out your profile.

You'll get more responses.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

telsa said:


> Ladders are usually slower than a Baker//Perry scaffold.
> 
> With a sabre saw// Sawzall you can trim plywood into a setting jig.
> 
> ...


I’m thinking this guy is working with 8’ ceilings. Unless he’s a midget, a scaffold would be completely impractical. Besides that, if he’s using a laser plumb, the scaffold would block his beam.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Wear a tool belt rig that has pouches for staples and wire nuts, a hammer loop, and the basic roughing tools. I have a dedicated setup just for roughing.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

99cents said:


> I’m thinking this guy is working with 8’ ceilings. Unless he’s a midget, a scaffold would be completely impractical. *Besides that, if he’s using a laser plumb, the scaffold would block his beam*.


You copied the post -- but didn't read it. :devil3:

Out here 9' foot ceilings are the norm. 

A baker is only 6' up and nowhere did I mention how high it be set.

Doing basements ? Route to the poor-house. :crying:

It's too DIY.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

OP...seriously...if you have your foot in the commercial door and
are established there....my sincere advise....stay there.

Residential used to be run much much more efficiently and like clock 
work , but now that it's a **** show , it's extremely difficult to turn a 
profit.

I'm convinced 2008 wiped out many skilled craftsmen who doubled as 
Home Builders and the advent of *HG TV * brought about a new crowd
of house flippers / real estate agents deciding to double as "Builders" eg
_El Cheapo General Contracting_ 

I recently read an article that had home builders claiming they cannot fill 
the void of trades they need to meet the "housing shortages" demand.

I call Bull S*** on this. They cannot find the trades because most of 
them are inept and will not pay adequate rates and want each trade to 
assume more of the costs , liabilities and RESPONSIBILITIES of building
the house. Yes I said _responsibilities_...meaning they don't even 
show up throughout the building process until it's time to organize the closing.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

lighterup said:


> i call bull s*** on this. *they cannot find the trades because most of them are inept and will not pay adequate rates and want each trade to assume more of the costs , liabilities and responsibilities of building the house.* yes i said _responsibilities_...meaning they don't even show up throughout the building process until it's time to organize the closing.



*AMENn.!*


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

splatz said:


> *AMENn.!*


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## Sparkyjo (Sep 29, 2018)

telsa said:


> Ladders are usually slower than a Baker//Perry scaffold.
> 
> With a sabre saw// Sawzall you can trim plywood into a setting jig.
> 
> ...


 I'm curious to see a picture of this jig even though i don't use cans, i might start using them.


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## Sparkyjo (Sep 29, 2018)

telsa said:


> Doing basements ? Route to the poor-house. :crying:
> 
> It's too DIY.


Not in Toronto


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## Sparkyjo (Sep 29, 2018)

what are your methods of installing 4" rough-in smash plates?


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

What's a smash plate?


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Cow said:


> What's a smash plate?


I think they are the rings for potlights. You know the ones that the drywaller can rotozip out?

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Sparkyjo said:


> what are your methods of installing 4" rough-in smash plates?


Laser level

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Sparkyjo said:


> I'm curious to see a picture of this jig even though i don't use cans, i might start using them.


You'll want a jig for each thickness of drywall -- if that's your gig.

1/2 plywood and some scrap lumber, screws, speed square -- and such.

Speed clamps -- essential to make setting the jig ultra fast and dead on your mark/ laser.

PM me for how to slap it together.

My apprentices were ALWAYS blown away how handy it was... especially as some cans required being 144" AFF -- outside on a slanted walkway -- it being one story up. Just how much fiddling around does anyone want to do on such a ladder? ( No, this time it had to be ladder work. )

With the jig to hold the can, I found it actually practical to half-wire a daisy-chained soffit light -- that is one leg of the chain was already clipped and stripped for make-up while on the ground. I could haul the assembly up with ease, and just plop the can in position -- loose -- then haul up the tail and strap it -- with slack. The prior MC was brought across the joists -- strapped slackly -- and then stuck in. Yeah, it had already been Roto-Splitted. This method completely eliminated coming back to any can twice.

The MC was always 12-3. For, in my Commercial World, every dang design has EM lights in the daisy chain.


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Stilts depending on height. Wire nut wrench or wagos. Some guys on here swear by lever nuts. I've never used but they sound sweet.


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## Ty the electric guy (Feb 16, 2014)

telsa said:


> Ladders are usually slower than a Baker//Perry scaffold.
> 
> With a sabre saw// Sawzall you can trim plywood into a setting jig.
> 
> ...




Bakers scaffolds are way too slow and bulky for any roughing. They are also a pain to climb up/down if you need any tools or supplies. And as 99 said they are often in the way of the laser. 

I’d also like a picture of the jig you were talking about. Seems like it would be time consuming to build one for each light.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

lighterup said:


> I recently read an article that had home builders claiming they cannot fill
> the void of trades they need to meet the "housing shortages" demand.


Come to Florida and you will find that builders have no problem finding workers - except they are almost all Mexicans doing piece work for the electrical, HVAC and plumbing. That's great if you can do it quickly and don't care about quality, which they don't.


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## 0day (Dec 27, 2018)

If you have a whole community to rough-in completing a 1400sqft home in a day what I have found to be efficient is having one guy drilling holes, another boxing in once one or the other is done they start wiring the place/cutting in. 3 guys would be great but I've seen it done with 2.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Ty the electric guy said:


> Bakers scaffolds are way too slow and bulky for any roughing. They are also a pain to climb up/down if you need any tools or supplies. And as 99 said they are often in the way of the laser.
> 
> I’d also like a picture of the jig you were talking about. Seems like it would be time consuming to build one for each light.


I climb up and down with an 6-foot ladder.

The jigs come together FAST. I only ever had ONE.

I'm Commercial -- meaning Halo 6" every last time.

It's drastically faster to set the jig -- dead on -- than messing with the can's struts.

The can can ONLY go where it's supposed to go -- and in seconds.

Then you can play with strapping the MC// Romex even before it tugs on the can.

Finally, a few screws.

Release clamps after make-up. DONE.

As for your unfounded belief. I came up with this scheme in a side-by-side compo.

It's not even close. :vs_laugh:

You stop shifting a ladder all over creation, with your supplies, too.

Ladder work is deemed anywhere from 6x to 8x floor speed in every estimating program.

Working off a Baker is as if you're on the floor. Why the !!!! do scaffolds even exist ?

I hope that everyone here holds to your opinion. :biggrin:


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I also toss a tool rail onto my Baker.

Yeah, it's custom.

It stops me from bending over, and over, and over.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I don't bring the Baker to TINY jobs... Ones and twos.

It's killer for arrays -- long strings.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

telsa said:


> I don't bring the Baker to TINY jobs... Ones and twos.
> 
> It's killer for arrays -- long strings.


I have (2) bakers with the extra set of wheels for when I 
stack them for higher work. It's definitely more suitable for me
to work off the baker scaffolding then a ladder. ( That's not to say
that I don't use ladders. Sometimes I just have to.
It's easier on my feet when I use the baker (cause of the flat smooth 
surface) then stepping on a ladder all day. 

My feet don'e ache & swell near as much.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MTW said:


> Come to Florida and you will find that builders have no problem finding workers - except they are almost all Mexicans doing piece work for the electrical, HVAC and plumbing. That's great if you can do it quickly and don't care about quality, which they don't.


I see them here too , but not in electrical....yet.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

We have have done a few houses this year....we have been using them flate rough in brackets with the wafer lights they work pretty well.....but you gota stock them...supply houses never have them and online usually take a like week.

you can get them for 6-8$....I buy them in boxes of 50....4" and 6".

if they want 3" i talk them into 4 "


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

When you guys are working on Bakers Scaffold, do you have someone pushing you around?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

No.

Too uneconomic.

The labor savings come from not hauling around can after can on foot. 

On larger builds, this drain becomes extreme. 

In Commercial work, the fixtures are drop-shipped. I've built my own -- cheapo -- dolly just for them. This allows everyone to shift my materials around. At my scale, the cans always end up in the wrong// blocking location. I don't want them to be roughly handled. It's a crowd pleaser, and my stuff doesn't get trashed. My dolly is marked up silly, so it has yet to be stolen. 

I'd use a Baker -- but they DO get stolen.

You can buy a tool cart from Rubbermaid. I make my own custom equipment, instead.

My favorite is a WEMCO reel for MC coils. I don't have to guess how long a whip is -- it's metered.

The whole get-up is on a wheeled chassis. 

Tin studding means that I can promptly predict the whip length required... then pull the MC in as if the coil was reverse wound. I just pull in the tail first. It goes much faster, of course.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

NoBot said:


> When you guys are working on Bakers Scaffold, do you have someone pushing you around?


No. I set the height so my head is about 18" below 
ceiling joists and I pull myself along as I'm putting
up boxing , drilling , pulling wire etc..


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MTW said:


> Come to Florida and you will find that builders have no problem finding workers - except they are almost all Mexicans doing piece work for the electrical, HVAC and plumbing. That's great if you can do it quickly and don't care about quality, which they don't.


Boy. You don’t know shlt about Florida. We have Cubans. They live 5 families to a house, steal every possible government service out there and they love Trump.
It’s a total mind F**k here. You should come visit. I’ll show you how it all works. :wink:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> Boy. You don’t know shlt about Florida. We have Cubans. They live 5 families to a house, steal every possible government service out there and they love Trump.
> It’s a total mind F**k here. You should come visit. I’ll show you how it all works. :wink:


You're right, I don't know anything.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

I've been using a 5' flex drill bit to drill the studs. You can drill through several without moving the drill. It also keeps the holes lined up. I can even drill up through the top plate without a ladder or drill through joists without a ladder. Only draw back is I buy the flex bits that are made on the rod and they are not nail eaters. Have to be careful of not hitting nails. If I know there might be nails, I just use my nail eater bit for that area.


I have a rolling stool with a tray built on the bottom that I use to make up boxes. Keep Buchanan crimps, "Greenies", etc on the tray. You sometimes have to clean out a path for it to roll but it saves my back and knees. Then on final/trim, I make sure the wheels are clean and use it to trim out. I can keep a box of devices and plates on the tray along with hand tools.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

There is only one way to get good at romex -- start roughing in houses or room additions every day. 

Mark everything out. Box it out. Pull everything. Staple. Cut in. 

This really seems to be the best method.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Henry Ford gave us the assembly line .

Just think that way .
If you need more vision listen to Vince Lombardi speeches or read his books . 

I just gave you the keys to the kingdom !!


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

telsa said:


> You copied the post -- but didn't read it. :devil3:
> 
> Out here 9' foot ceilings are the norm.
> 
> ...


I agree with this 100%...these are notoriously run by DIYer's with
their own short cut ideas or general contractor / handy man jobs 
that are being done under the radar , not to code and "we supply 
all the materials" gambit.:vs_laugh:

Maybe it's different north of the Great Lakes cause regulation 
sounds much more diligent there...
IDK...can only speak for here and I can assure you when I get 
calls asking for estimates on these kind of projects I can barely
stop myself from immediate hanging up while their still yammering 
on about all their ground rules....:vs_poop:


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

It's been a while but I remember working as an apprentice and this is how the journeymen trained me. 
1)Limit the amount of tools you carry when you do the rough in. The less times you reach into your pouch is wasted time. We used roofing axes with sharp blades. Pull your romex to a box. Chop it off with the ax then flip the ax over and drive your staple. Sounds crazy but it worked. 
2) wear an apron with all your staples and wire nuts so you did not have to reach for parts.
3) use stilts so you can sting romex through the overhead without having to use a ladder.
4) Drill from the hip and keep your bits sharp. 

I'ts all a personal choice really but if it's track houses you just have to hustle to make money. Not a pleasurable experience at all. It brings back nightmares.


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## tommyjeans (Dec 8, 2018)

Like others have said, small tool belt and an apron. One pouch for staples, other for wirenuts/screws. I label every wire I run at the bottom of the romex and further up the wall so I don't accidentally cut it off and forget what the circuit was. Run all wires before starting to cut in also. Other than that, you'll pick things up on the go and figure out what works for you and what doesn't.


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## Max C. (Sep 29, 2016)

After transitioning from a fairly commercial-centric company to crew that does residential left right and center, I've picked up some tricks. Here are some company practices and personal preferences...

Following the "box-it, drill-it, pull-it" method has never let me down.

Cable reel jacks/Rack-A-Tiers _*are a must*_ to keep your pulls efficient. It pains me to see all of the DIYers on YouTube p!ssing around with some magled, 18-foot scrap of NM when trying to complete a project. Reel jacks aren't terribly expensive and they save an unbelievable amount of time. The process is especially efficient when you can pull multiple runs simultaneously.

Keep your material nearby. Ideally a pouch however work-pants with deep pockets will suffice for hand-tools tools, staples and screws.

Wago LeverNuts for light fixtures. Although the up-front cost is more than traditional wire connectors, they make like life much easier when putting up awkward chandeliers and outdoor fixtures in less-than-pleasant weather. https://www.wago.com/221/us/

Unless its immediately obvious, label everything. You would not believe how much grief trying to trace cables after they're pulled can cause, especially during a tight time-line. *Every single home-run and GFCI circuit I pull is labeled*. As for switch-legs, I'll label unless its simply two 14/2s in a box. Some companies use notches, others will invest in permanent-markers. Whatever you use, develop a system to identify stuff and stick with it.

Out guess the client. With countless callbacks to add items to a house after the drywall is up, my boss is insisting on dropping four spare-circuits in crawl-spaces, no questions asked. Trust me, its better to "waste" a trivial amount of NM than rip apart somebody's moved-into living room for one added receptacle.

AFCI-protection is a fact of life. Be prepared for that. Neutrals and grounds touching will trip them, so make-up your receptacle boxes neatly. Certain appliances may also cause "nuisance-trips," so don't be surprised if you get a callback or two based on that. No fault of anybody except the breaker manufacturer, I suppose...


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## JBrzoz00 (Nov 17, 2013)

I try to set cans as much as I can on rough. Least amount of cutting in finished drywall as possible.


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## CwDavis85 (Dec 4, 2019)

*Cool Tools*

I got one of those electric palm hammer things for Christmas one year and thought it was the dumbest thing in the world. But for nail on boxes in tight places you cant beat it. I wont wire a house with out one. Also and I know Im gona take some heat for this. Two "Grabbers". Those things you pull the trigger on to grab things you cant reach behind the sofa. Use them for pulling romex through attic trusses without the need for a ladder. Everyone who has ever seen me do it, teases me. But I always pull more wire than them in a day.


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