# Electricians and Electrical Engineering



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I would stay with computer science.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Summy22 said:


> Another thing, I have not been able to find much information about electricians becoming electrical engineers.


Very rarely. If there is such a thing as a class system in the electrical world, engineers are the kings and electricians are the surfs.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Very rarely. If there is such a thing as a class system in the electrical world, engineers are the kings and electricians are the surfs.


Serfs. Surf is where your take your surfboard.

Besides, I thought we were pawns. Or peons, at the best. Maybe hireling? Or peasant.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

"Electronic Engineering" could be more focused on
things that are done with semiconductors, e.g. computer
circuits, power supplies, etc. and relatively less on
things like transformers, motors, transmission, etc.

The above is kind of generalities, because you might
be able to take coursework in any of the above in
either type of program.

I'd urge you to take as wide a range as possible. When
I got my my EE degree, I focused more on the
electronics stuff, and wish I had more coursework
on things like power engineering. That was >20 years
ago, and even though the computer industry was
booming, I think the highest paying job offered to
new BSEEs was one of the big power companies
was looking for hotshot engineers to do power
engineering.

Even though I have not used a lot of what I learned
specifically on the job, a pretty wide variety of it
comes up, and it was really worth taking a wide range
of courses.

Good luck, I think your time will be well invested.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Serfs. Surf is where your take your surfboard..


I know one or the other gets your clothes clean too.


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## shunt trip (Jan 15, 2009)

*college choice*

The more you know, the better. Knowledge is king. 
I would focus your skills to the job you envision. 
The jobs of the future will be in clean tech generation and transmission. 
The world has no choice, electricity will replace oil. Once we (USA) are committed to the venture, our trade will boom. Electrical engineers will be in high demand. Your timing is good.:thumbsup:


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well if you want to be a electrical engineer just join the mike holts forum after 6 weeks online with all them posting electrical engineers you can skip three years of engineering school . just joken sorry mike dont band me . most schooling in the engineering field i think requier you to work in that related field for two years after you graduate and then work under a certified electrical engineer for 5 years also but just ask mike holts guys they know everything .


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## 5volts (Jan 11, 2008)

Summy22 said:


> Another thing, I have not been able to find much information about electricians becoming electrical engineers. Is this a typical career path for someone who wants to advance?


No, too different career paths. Most engineers have a hard time understanding the "real world", such as hard wiring and relay logic.

They come out of school with no hands on experience can't not apply the physics they learned to actual troubleshooting in the field.

In my opinion the theory Electricians learn In a Electrical trade school or apprenticeship such as AC and DC theory mixed in with hands on you can out troubleshoot better then any Electrical engineer. Hes never had to trouble shoot a circuit that was back feeding, open neutral, open common, hes only sat in a class room and now he sits at a computer and deals with prints and tries to program PLC logic. 

In big companies I have seen most Electrical Engineers are the first to get layed off when times are tough, because the sharp electricians can do both the Electrical hard wiring, PLC programming, instrumentation and whatever job the engineer is supposed to be doing. I am talking from a Industrial perspective.

In know A lot of Electrical engineers that only make in the 65 to 75 k a year. Pretty bad for having a 4 year bachelors degree. I know A lot of Electricians that make a lot more than that. 

In the end you have to choose what you enjoy doing. If you are going to get the education I say good for you it can't hurt It gives you more options and you can find out what you like too do best. 

Personally I like to prove Electrical Engineers wrong all the time and bounce Electrical formulas off the their heads.


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Besides, I thought we were pawns. Or peons, at the best. Maybe hireling? Or peasant.


How 'bout chattel?


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

i think it is a good thing, an engineer with real world experience is a rare and valuable thing.


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## mayanees (Jan 12, 2009)

*Advice from an EE/Electrician*

Summy 22:

I'm a registered engineer and a Master electrician, so my background directly fits your situation, which is why I'm compelled to comment.
FWIW...
I obtained a 2-year degree from a Community College, an Associates in Applied Science in Electrical/Electronics Technology. After that, I transferred to RIT and ended up with a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering.
I started in Industry doing Electrical Project engineering, and now do critical power EE designs. All of this work is handed off to electricians for installation, so my career EE work directly relates to electrical construction since I'm there every step of the way. 

If you get the engineering degree, you may or may not settle into a niche that keeps you in touch with the electrician side of electrical engineering. Electricians live by the NEC, which is what I design to, so I'll always be there. But I can say that in my college, EEs weren't taught the NEC, nor ever shown how to wire a 3-way switch, so the typical EE graduate is not qualified to be an electrican in any sense of the word.

I kind of knew where my career interest was early on, so I was able to pick related classes like motors, transformers, controls, etc. There were still numerous other required courses like Electronics, magnetics, Linear Systems, etc, that aren't directly applicable, but were still required.

It's hard to make wise choices that affect your entire career. Someone in this post wrote: Take the classes, you can never learn enough.. and that's good advice. If your situation can handle it, keep working as an electrician and get that license, while working toward an EE degree. If you get the degree, you can ultimately get the PE license, which is another potential source of income.

Whatever you do, you're gonna do it for a long, long time. I'm 50 years-old, and I don't ever see myself retiring because I can be productive from a computer for years to come, and I like what I do. My particular specialty is Power Systems Analysis: Fault; Coordination; Arc Flash; Load FLow; etc And in the performance of this work, I'm in contact with the Electrical Testing outfits, which is fun.

Good Luck 

John M


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## ko929 (Feb 6, 2009)

heys guys i'm a first time poster. I am looking into expanding my education. I work offshore, so a campus is out for me. Im going to have to settle with an AS in Electrical Engineering Technology from Penn foster. Going to also take classes towards some certificates i've seen at the community colleges. I've seen the online course work and it's pretty intense. The more paperwork the better. Good luck to everyone.
http://www.pennfostercollege.edu/eleceng/index.html


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## ko929 (Feb 6, 2009)

*Rit??*



mayanees said:


> Summy 22:
> 
> I'm a registered engineer and a Master electrician, so my background directly fits your situation, which is why I'm compelled to comment.
> FWIW...
> ...


Whats RIT?


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

ko929 said:


> Whats RIT?


Could be Rochester Institute of Technology.
www.rit.edu


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## mayanees (Jan 12, 2009)

rexowner said:


> Could be Rochester Institute of Technology.
> www.rit.edu


 
Yes guys, it's Rochester Institute of Technology. Good school, IMO.

The best thing about them is that it's CO-OP based. I spent my first 2 years full-time (if you can call it that!) at a Community College, then transferred to RIT where it takes 3 years to finish the final 2 years of a 4-year curriculum. It was 3 months on, 3 months off, school, then work. It was valuable because you got the chance to see different career options in the field.
John M


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

p_logix said:


> No, too different career paths. Most engineers have a hard time understanding the "real world", such as hard wiring and relay logic.
> 
> They come out of school with no hands on experience can't not apply the physics they learned to actual troubleshooting in the field.
> 
> ...


 I agree :notworthy: with you i come across engineers , that shun us electricians , yet when there is a problem they can't fiqure out they call sparky , major comm. problems with the sonet, dacs, data nodes, hubs , cross connects ,fiber modems,t-1 transcievers  I try to make it a team effort at all costs..


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## Summy22 (Feb 1, 2009)

ko929 said:


> heys guys i'm a first time poster. I am looking into expanding my education. I work offshore, so a campus is out for me. Im going to have to settle with an AS in Electrical Engineering Technology from Penn foster. Going to also take classes towards some certificates i've seen at the community colleges. I've seen the online course work and it's pretty intense. The more paperwork the better. Good luck to everyone.
> http://www.pennfostercollege.edu/eleceng/index.html



I looked at that program too but decided against it because they are not regionally credited which means if you want to move on to your bachelors degree it'll be hard to find somewhere to accept those credits.

Thanks for all the feedback everything it has been very helpful.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well lets be honest about what we do and why .If i had a choice id take the electrical engineer side , at work our company has a program for high school kids they work with us during the summer months this kid asked me if this is a good way to earn a living ? I looked him in the eyes and said stay in school !! Next week the school trade teacher comes to work and asked me why i told him that , so i said lets watch my crew set up some wire pulls which were 750 mcm spools about 365 foot long he never said one more word . GET A EDUCATION .:thumbsup:


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

nick said:


> Well lets be honest about what we do and why .If i had a choice id take the electrical engineer side , at work our company has a program for high school kids they work with us during the summer months this kid asked me if this is a good way to earn a living ? I looked him in the eyes and said stay in school !! Next week the school trade teacher comes to work and asked me why i told him that , so i said lets watch my crew set up some wire pulls which were 750 mcm spools about 365 foot long he never said one more word . GET A EDUCATION .:thumbsup:


Hmm I don't know...I don't think I would want to sit behind a desk for most of the day, this is a good trade and an excellent way to make a living. If I had of gone the academic route I probably would have been an electrical engineer. But I do think that getting all the education you can is a definate plus. I really don't enjoy the heavy construction side of the trade (or residential), what I love the most about my job is the service side of the trade! If you are the type that can't sit still (like me) and you love seeing different things and places all the time then the electrical trade is for you:thumbsup:


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

p logix is taking the standard line berating engineers and I beg to differ. Yes we have all run into some that weren't worth a tinkers damn. Same is true of tradesman also. The factory where I used to work people loved to talk about college educated idiots and granted there are some of those. But it was not people with Tradeschool educations who invented the transistor, put men on the moon, developed vaccines,etc.,etc.etc. Engineers have brought us all the marvels of the modern age. I love being a Master Electrician and have enjoyed my entire career but if I had to do it over again I would buckle down and get that engineering degree!!


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## 5volts (Jan 11, 2008)

iaov said:


> p logix is taking the standard line berating engineers and I beg to differ. Yes we have all run into some that weren't worth a tinkers damn. Same is true of tradesman also.The factory where I used to work people loved to talk about college educated idiots and granted there are some of those. But it was not people with Tradeschool educations who invented the transistor, put men on the moon, developed vaccines,etc.,etc.etc. Engineers have brought us all the marvels of the modern age. I love being a Master Electrician and have enjoyed my entire career but if I had to do it over again I would buckle down and get that engineering degree!!


First off, I think the standard way of thinking is "Engineering is a career advancement for a electrician". And many people may think that way. I don't believe all tradesmen are equal and I don't believe all Engineers Are equal as well. However the engineers I am referring to are not like the _*scientists*_ who invented the transistor. Its the engineers who went to the colleges who advertise on the back of a book of matches, and even the finest universities do not even mention the NEC, schematics, they haven't even seen a Uglys book. So my point is Even if they know a lot calculus, physics, it doesn't really mean much when your losing $1000s of dollars a minute of downtime in a high speed production environment. 

Take a look at this thread, you see its not really to put any one down its just, electrical engineers a lot of times are expected to know what a electrician knows. http://www.electriciantalk.com/f9/locatoin-meters-main-service-5260/. 

Now if you had the opportunity to go back and become a EE, I bet you would be a Awesome one. You've already would have had your run as a Electrician. Personally I can only program a PLC or develop a panelview screen for so long then I start to go crazy. Degree or no degree I know one things for sure If you become a very knowledgeable Electrician you will never be out of work. 

_As far as the money goes I don't think the degree makes a difference, It depends on the person._


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