# So who else got a raise?????



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> After tough negotiating and a near strike we got a new contract.
> The new contract is $8 over 3 years. $2 the first year, then $3 the second and $3 the third.
> 
> We also locked are health care up for the next 4 years with almost no increase in contributions.
> ...


What are they doing for the guys still out of work?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> What are they doing for the guys still out of work?



The list has been moving, slow but steady. We have been covering the out of work members (and there families) healthcare so they don't lapse coverage.

We have an emergency fund for members who lost there U.E. benefits.
$500 a week for JW and $350 a week for apprentices, for a maximum of 10 weeks, although I don't know anyone personally that's ran out of unemployment yet.

A couple of the large university/hospitals in the area are doing over a billion dollars worth of construction over the next few years and we signed them to union exclusive contracts.

The local utility (PECO) just got between 6 and 7 hundred million dollars in federal money to rebuild there metering system. Will no doubt get the balk of this work.

Things are slow for sure but the future looks good.


Also there offering early outs to close to 200 members as to make room for the guy's who are not so close to retirement.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> After tough negotiating and a near strike


I thought it was you that said the IBEW does not strike? 





> In a time were locals all over the country are giving back money and taking pay freezes we'll be ahead of the curve when the economy rebounds.


Or a higher percentage of you will remain on the bench but hell as long as some of you got more per hour I guess all is good. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> The list has been moving, slow but steady. We have been covering the out of work members (and there families) healthcare so they don't lapse coverage.
> 
> We have an emergency fund for members who lost there U.E. benefits.
> $500 a week for JW and $350 a week for apprentices, for a maximum of 10 weeks, although I don't know anyone personally that's ran out of unemployment yet.
> ...


Good to see they weren't left out of the "big dance" :thumbsup:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> I thought it was you that said the IBEW does not strike?


I don't remember saying that. But IBEW/NECA conflicts are very far and few between. My local has only went on strike once in the past 30 years.
The differences are almost always worked out amicably.




> Or a higher percentage of you will remain on the bench but hell as long as some of you got more per hour I guess all is good. :no:


That's not really how it works. My local is working every day trying to get guy's back to work. I wouldn't really expect YOU to understand the meaning of solidarity.:whistling2:


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## pzpoy (Jun 2, 2008)

http://www.ibew45.org/about/strikes.html

I believe our AJs are getting $2 this year(next month, LU 26), and $2.70 next year.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

pzpoy said:


> http://www.ibew45.org/about/strikes.html
> 
> I believe our AJs are getting $2 this year(next month, LU 26), and $2.70 next year.


Are you in a current contract or is this part of a new contract?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> That's not really how it works.


Are you under the delusion that a local raising their wages has no impact on the amount of work available to that locals members?




> My local is working every day trying to get guy's back to work.


Increasing the costs is working against that goal. 



> I wouldn't really expect YOU to understand the meaning of solidarity.:whistling2:


I am sure that solidarity pays the bills. :no:


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> What are they doing for the guys still out of work?





Bob Badger said:


> I thought it was you that said the IBEW does not strike?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Under Union Topics it clearly says " If you are sensitive to this topic please stay out"

I have noticed that both of you seem to pick fights when it comes to union topics. You have had bad experiances with the union in the past... I get it... get over it. Union electricians put their pants on the same way you do and we are all trying to make a living. We don't like it that many guys are out of work but their isn't anything we can do except show up to our job and do our best.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

running dummy said:


> Under Union Topics it clearly says " If you are sensitive to this topic please stay out"
> 
> I have noticed that both of you seem to pick fights when it comes to union topics. You have had bad experiances with the union in the past... I get it... get over it. Union electricians put their pants on the same way you do and we are all trying to make a living. We don't like it that many guys are out of work but their isn't anything we can do except show up to our job and do our best.


If you are too sensitive about my posts put me on your ignore list because I am not going anywhere.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> Are you under the delusion that a local raising their wages has no impact on the amount of work available to that locals members?


Oh yeah, just like lowering the rates magically creates work out of thin air




> Increasing the costs is working against that goal.


I don't know where you been, but EVERYTHING has gone up except one thing, the average joes wages. But I guess were the ones who are suppose to suffer.

I got news for ya, inflation is here to stay.




> I am sure that solidarity pays the bills.


It sure does. To the tune of $47 per hour in the check and another $24 per hour in pension and health care.

We had full employment plus travelers for years. It won't stay slow forever.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> If you are too sensitive about my posts put me on your ignore list because I am not going anywhere.



i didn't know there was a problem:jester:


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## pzpoy (Jun 2, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> Are you in a current contract or is this part of a new contract?


It'll be year 2


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

running dummy said:


> I have noticed that both of you seem to pick fights when it comes to union topics. You have had bad experiances with the union in the past... I get it... get over it.


Geez.. how am I picking a fight asking about the guys still out of work?? :blink:

See post #5


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Geez.. how am I picking a fight asking about the guys still out of work?? :blink:
> 
> See post #5



In your defense. I thought you were asking a legit question.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Hay Bob, your a trouble maker :laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

pzpoy said:


> It'll be year 2



of what, a 3 year or four year contract? It's a good time to be in the middle of a contract.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> In your defense. I thought you were asking a legit question.


I was, and I can't see how anyone could read a negative thought out of that :no:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I was, and I can't see how anyone could read a negative thought out of that :no:


I didn't.


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## pzpoy (Jun 2, 2008)

Of a 3 year contract. 

http://www.ibewlocal26.org/wage package/rates6_09aj.pdf - wage package

Quick question though, do these high pay increases in such a short period of time positively or negatively effect the non-union side? I could see on one side non-union ECs getting more bids thanks to a lower labor rate, or do their wages increase in turn?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

pzpoy said:


> Of a 3 year contract.
> 
> http://www.ibewlocal26.org/wage package/rates6_09aj.pdf - wage package
> 
> Quick question though, do these high pay increases in such a short period of time positively or negatively effect the non-union side? I could see on one side non-union ECs getting more bids thanks to a lower labor rate, or do their wages increase in turn?



My local did a study on this a while back. It helps the non union electrician. Generally the bigger and more successful non union shops will also raise there rates a bit to keep people from being interested in what the union has to offer. But even though this being the case I don't know any open shop paying what the local rates are,out side of P.W. jobs.

the only down side to this is the P.W. work. If the government money comes from the state then the P.W. will be identical to the local unions rates BUT and this is a big but when the monies come from the federal government then the P.W. will be based on davis bacon and the davis bacon rate is not always the same as the states P.W. rate. It could be much less, giving the non union a big advantage when bidding davis bacon jobs.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

A year and a half for me and 2 years for the wife since our last raise.

Good for you.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

jbfan said:


> A year and a half for me and 2 years for the wife since our last raise.
> 
> Good for you.



Yeah my wifes job was outsourced to India about a year ago. She took about a 50% pay cut with her new job.

Speaking of which, there was some idiot on c-span today trying to explain how outsourcing is beneficial to the American economy, is there anyone still buying that??:blink:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> of what, a 3 year or four year contract? It's a good time to be in the middle of a contract.


 Yea it would be a good time to be in the middle of a contract, but we just finished up one.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Yea it would be a good time to be in the middle of a contract, but we just finished up one.


So what's it look like for the next contract? Did you guy's start negotiations yet?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Yeah my wifes job was outsourced to India about a year ago. She took about a 50% pay cut with her new job.
> 
> Speaking of which, there was some idiot on c-span today trying to explain how outsourcing is beneficial to the American economy, is there anyone still buying that??:blink:


That sucks she lost her job.. what field was she in?

Those morons on c-span should lose their job and then tell us why it is good for the economy


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> So what's it look like for the next contract? Did you guy's start negotiations yet?


 I not sure. I just rejoined.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> That sucks she lost her job.. what field was she in?
> 
> Those morons on c-span should lose their job and then tell us why it is good for the economy



She was in education, it's a long and complicated story but if you knew WHAT was outsourced to a foreign country you be a bit shocked


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> My local did a study on this a while back. It helps the non union electrician. Generally the bigger and more successful non union shops will also raise there rates a bit to keep people from being interested in what the union has to offer


I hope that this is the case.

But even if I continue to make what I make now, I think I'm gonna be alright.

We've been looking at apartments up there and there are some nice places, in nice neighborhoods for really cheap!

Especially when you factor splitting rent 3 ways.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I not sure. I just rejoined.



Your current contract just expired? I hope the members are paying attention. What's gonna happen in the next few years is really important, I feel bad for all those locals who gave money back. The funny thing is there the ones who seem to be in the worst shape.

Stay involved:thumbsup:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> I hope that this is the case.
> 
> But even if I continue to make what I make now, I think I'm gonna be alright.
> 
> ...



Cool. How's the job search working out?? Where ya looking at??


Actually let me know where your looking, if your in the city, lots has changed over the past few years.

Some of the nicer neighborhoods aren't so nice anymore and a lot of the inner city neighborhoods have been gentrified and are really nice now.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> Cool. How's the job search working out?? Where ya looking at??
> 
> 
> Actually let me know where your looking, if your in the city, lots has changed over the past few years.
> ...


Well my to-be-roommate is looking to go to Drexel, so we're looking at University city, Northern Liberties, and some parts of South Philly.

Gotta love Google's street view.

I'm moving at the end of June, and I've held off from contacting employers at this point since I'm still working on my resume, but more so doin' research, checking craigslists, and brushing up with old friends.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Well my to-be-roommate is looking to go to Drexel, so we're looking at University city, Northern Liberties, and some parts of South Philly.
> 
> Gotta love Google's street view.
> 
> I'm moving at the end of June, and I've held off from contacting employers at this point since I'm still working on my resume, but more so doin' research, checking craigslists, and brushing up with old friends.



There some really great spots especially if your single.:thumbsup:

Good luck with the search and I hope your move back to Philly goes smooth.


I've been doing my post op p.t. at Penn sports medicine and I drive through Drexel's campus a couple of times a week, there are some gorgeous young women in uni city for sure.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Oh yeah, just like lowering the rates magically creates work out of thin air
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have to agree with that. But the cost of doing business is going up. And bids for contracts are going down.

Its just a matter of time for the small shops with low overhead to steam to the top.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Voltech said:


> I have to agree with that. But the cost of doing business is going up. And bids for contracts are going down.
> 
> Its just a matter of time for the small shops with low overhead to steam to the top.



Small shops, big shops it doesn't really matter. The efficient shops are the ones that will make out. Actually the big boys are the ones who have been hanging in there. They have the capital and the connections to do so. The smaller guy's are the ones who have been getting beat up.

The guy's that will steam to the top are the ones who can learn from the bad times and become better for it.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Yah. The shops with the massive overhead are having big trouble. One shop I was previously employed by had three vehicles for each PM. WTF? The ratio of field to office hands was close to 1:1. After a TI, I stopped by to check out the new store. The manager complained to me the shop charged him $425 to change a light bulb on the sign out front. He was on his way to Home Depot to buy an extension ladder because another light went out. I didn't have the heart to tell him it probably had something to do with running the 120V lighting conductors in the same conduit to the roof as the 480V roof top unit. What can I say? We made a buck on the job.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> If you are too sensitive about my posts put me on your ignore list because I am not going anywhere.


Oh bob you are so right, you are not going any where. You pick through many post by Brothers and take pot shots at them(some times it seems jealousy is the root of your evils, other times it appears you have a pure hatred for the same people who fight for your rights as well as their own) I just hope that you will realize that we all have many things in common and we can help each other in many aspects of life.We all strive to EARN our way in life through the electrical field. You do come acros as being half way intelligent but all that is skewed by your constant biased against an unknown enemy you call union. Bob you will stunt your mental growth with all your attacks of hatred. Lighten up a little you might actually make a few friends.Good luck in whatever your mind decides to allow you to do.


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> Yah. The shops with the massive overhead are having big trouble. One shop I was previously employed by had three vehicles for each PM. WTF? The ratio of field to office hands was close to 1:1. After a TI, I stopped by to check out the new store. The manager complained to me the shop charged him $425 to change a light bulb on the sign out front. He was on his way to Home Depot to buy an extension ladder because another light went out. I didn't have the heart to tell him *it probably had something to do with running the 120V lighting conductors in the same conduit to the roof as the 480V roof top unit.* What can I say? We made a buck on the job.


 
Is that illegal?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Unions did a great job for the auto industry.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Unions did a great thing for all of us years ago. They aren't what they used to be.

As for raises, I care about what the company gives me over scale and as a bonus, my check is direct deposit so I don't pay any attention in regard to annual / contractual raises or anything like that.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> ........ I didn't have the heart to tell him it probably had something to do with running the 120V lighting conductors in the same conduit to the roof as the 480V roof top unit. ........


And why would that cause lamps to burn out?



Adam12 said:


> Is that illegal?


Nope.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Adam12 said:


> Is that illegal?


Where's Bob Badger? A 100A feeder is okay with a 20A branch ckt in the same raceway? 

I would say it is not a good practice.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Where's Bob Badger? A 100A feeder is okay with a 20A branch ckt in the same raceway?
> 
> I would say it is not a good practice.



But perfectly legal. And why would doing that cause lamps to burn out?


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

Nope.[/quote]

That's what I was getting at.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Where's Bob Badger? A 100A feeder is okay with a 20A branch ckt in the same raceway?
> 
> I would say it is not a good practice.


I'm your Huckleberry. Quote me the code article that says It is not allowed


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Oh bob you are so right, you are not going any where. You pick through many post by Brothers and take pot shots at them(some times it seems jealousy is the root of your evils, other times it appears you have a pure hatred for the same people who fight for your rights as well as their own) I just hope that you will realize that we all have many things in common and we can help each other in many aspects of life.We all strive to EARN our way in life through the electrical field. You do come acros as being half way intelligent but all that is skewed by your constant biased against an unknown enemy you call union. Bob you will stunt your mental growth with all your attacks of hatred. Lighten up a little you might actually make a few friends.Good luck in whatever your mind decides to allow you to do.


You have no idea about me, you can guess and you can pretend to be some deep thinker but I don't buy it.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

randomkiller said:


> Unions did a great thing for all of us years ago.


Without a doubt and I have never said otherwise. 



> They aren't what they used to be.


No they are not and neither is the workplace.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I didn't have the heart to tell him it probably had something to do with running the 120V lighting conductors in the same conduit to the roof as the 480V roof top unit. *What can I say? *


What can you say?

You could say why having 120 lighting conductors mixed with 480 volt HVAC conductors have anything to do with the light burning out.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Where's Bob Badger? A 100A feeder is okay with a 20A branch ckt in the same raceway?


Yes it is allowed. 



> I would say it is not a good practice.


I have to agree, because when you run branch circuits in with a feeder you will have to apply the derating rules to the feeder conductors, that will cost you money.

Also in my own opinion pulling a set of 12 AWGs in with large conductors risks having the smaller conductors damaged by the larger ones.

Now that said if I had to run 10 THHN in EMT running from an electrical room to a 30 amp 480 volt RTU and I also had to bring up 120 for lights and power you can bet that both voltages are going in the same conduit. :thumbsup:


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## Boneshaker (Jul 31, 2009)

Well done with your new contract. Our contract is up at the end of this month and we are currently in negotiations with our contractors. At this time the rising cost of health care is more of a concern to the rank and file than is the hourly rate. Even under the best of times negotiating is a tedious, pain staking, arduous activity, add in the current economy and we could be on our way to arbitration. (We have a no strike clause in our agreement)


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> You have no idea about me, you can guess and you can pretend to be some deep thinker but I don't buy it.


Bob it does not take much from the thought process to READ your post full of hatred. I make a claim to be a good father, husband and IBEW Brother, as far as DEEP thinker, a third grader can see the bias in your post. I joined this site with the hopes of learning from our fellow electrical workers and maybe helping each other grow to where we would not allow hatred interfere with whats good for human kind in the electrical field. Bob I have seen in some of your post where you give good imformation in your efforts to help others.I wish no ill will to or from you, just asking for more clarity in your post without such bias negative attacks.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Unions did a great job for the auto industry.


Yeah all they did was constantly give back and take cuts but the horrible management and an inefficient product that was put out by the companies had nothing to do with the collapse of the big three.
Rush Limbaugh must be your hero. 



randomkiller said:


> Unions did a great thing for all of us years ago. They aren't what they used to be.
> 
> As for raises, I care about what the company gives me over scale and as a bonus, my check is direct deposit so I don't pay any attention in regard to annual / contractual raises or anything like that.


So as long as you got yours, screw everyone else. That's cool.



Bob Badger said:


> No they are not and neither is the workplace.


Yet you seem to be doing fine. Are you the only electrician that's aloud to make a living?
So Bob tell me since the work place is so horrible what kind of concessions have you made to help your poor boss make ends meat?
The guy's in the shop must love working for you. I know you don't care, you got yours. 



Boneshaker said:


> Well done with your new contract. Our contract is up at the end of this month and we are currently in negotiations with our contractors. At this time the rising cost of health care is more of a concern to the rank and file than is the hourly rate. Even under the best of times negotiating is a tedious, pain staking, arduous activity, add in the current economy and we could be on our way to arbitration. (We have a no strike clause in our agreement)


 Our contract is mostly going towards the pension, annuity and health care. Were covering health care for the out of work members and there dependents, it's a bit expensive to say the least. We also lowered the retirement age and increased the amount going into the retirement.

There's also an early out for guy's close to retirement with an incentive check.


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## TagYoureIt (May 4, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Yeah all they did was constantly give back and take cuts~


That's simply NOT true. And since you are apparently opposed to using facts in a discussion, I don't see any reason to even continue this with you.

As for my local, if we get anything at all it will go into the pension and healthcare.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

TagYoureIt said:


> That's simply NOT true. And since you are apparently opposed to using facts in a discussion, I don't see any reason to even continue this with you.
> 
> As for my local, if we get anything at all it will go into the pension and healthcare.



Show me the facts were it proves the UAW ran the auto industry into the ground. GM, Ford, and Chrysler all negotiated the contracts with the auto workers union. Over the years they cut wages, eliminated positions, and made concessions in there pensions and health care. But the CEO's who made millions upon millions of dollars a year even though they refused to create an efficient and cost effective vehicle.

But I guess it's alright for the ceo's and management to make giant salaries as long as the average joe takes it up the a$$ with a smile.

Buy the way, what union and local are you a member off??

Why don't you just stick with your original screen name......


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I just got a raise too:thumbsup:

Oh, wait who cares I'm not in the Union:whistling2:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

walkerj said:


> I just got a raise too:thumbsup:
> 
> Oh, wait who cares I'm not in the Union:whistling2:


I care, we have an impact on each other, good and bad. If we get raises in the union it would make sense that the open shop contractors would have to give their employee's a raise also, as to compete with the union shops.I have seen post of ill will towards both union and non union and wonder how long these persons have been lost. We are good for one another. If either was not in place I know the abuse would be rampant and our scales would be compared to slave wages.We are in the business to sell our skilled labor and anytime we get a little more compensation for our efforts then that in itself is great. Thank you for your post.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> I care, we have an impact on each other, good and bad. If we get raises in the union it would make sense that the open shop contractors would have to give their employee's a raise also, as to compete with the union shops..............



So when I got my raises working as a rat, union scale went up?




















I didn't think so.









FWIW, most of my raises came from proving myself worthy of them, not because some piece of paper dictated that I get it.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> So as long as you got yours, screw everyone else. That's cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Is it common for people to be paid above scale?


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## StopBanningMeBro (May 5, 2010)

MF Dagger said:


> Is it common for people to be paid above scale?


Sure, mainly when times are fat.


Things such as company vehicles and gas cards are usually the first extra. Then either a higher hourly rate or a set number of hours extra in the paycheck.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> Is it common for people to be paid above scale?


 
In many companies it was a good way of keeping good guys a few years back, all the guys that have bad things to say about it at union meetings 
don't seem like they have ever been with a company for more than a few jobs. To me it's one of the things that will give you insentive to volunteer for 10 hour days or working a shut down change out or something along those lines.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So when I got my raises working as a rat, union scale went up?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I see a few cute quotes from those who think they have the answer but are unaware of what the question is. I repeat It pleases ME when anyone of the electrical working class gets an improvement in living increase, and yes when open shops as a whole start paying their employees more per hour then it does figure into how much a union shop will be offering at contract time(this is only basic economics) The misconceptions that have been demostrated by your post are an example of contractors stirring the pot between us and them so we will not be upset with them, for the slave wages they offer and the piss poor conditions. As far as you earning what your worth(you show pride by this statement) I would say you have been underpaid much of the time, as our contracts dictate the LEAST that a contractor can pay us.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> I see a few cute quotes from those who think they have the answer but are unaware of what the question is. I repeat It pleases ME when anyone of the electrical working class gets an improvement in living increase, and yes when open shops as a whole start paying their employees more per hour then it does figure into how much a union shop will be offering at contract time(this is only basic economics) The misconceptions that have been demostrated by your post are an example of contractors stirring the pot between us and them so we will not be upset with them, for the slave wages they offer and the piss poor conditions. As far as you earning what your worth(you show pride by this statement) I would say you have been underpaid much of the time, as our contracts dictate the LEAST that a contractor can pay us.



Well another common misconception is that the "unions dictates" our salary. First off it's an agreement. (no matter how many times you mention it it never seems to get through :icon_rolleyes Second it's the minimum allowable salary through the contract. If a contractor wants to pay over scale... for those who show their "worth" they are free to do so. And it happens all the time.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> ......... The misconceptions that have been demostrated by your post are an example of contractors stirring the pot between us and them so we will not be upset with them, for the slave wages they offer and the piss poor conditions. As far as you earning what your worth(you show pride by this statement) I would say you have been underpaid much of the time, as our contracts dictate the LEAST that a contractor can pay us.



I never said I was underpaid, even before I received a raise. You are just assuming as much without any facts. You also assume ALL non-union shops pay slave wages. The TRUTH of the matter is.... not all non-unions shops do.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

480sparky said:


> The TRUTH of the matter is.... not all non-unions shops do.


Dude.

You just blew my mind.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I never said I was underpaid, even before I received a raise. You are just assuming as much without any facts. You also assume ALL non-union shops pay slave wages. The TRUTH of the matter is.... not all non-unions shops do.


Whoa back up the only assumtion I had was that you had pride in your work ethics. I personally believe that both union and open shops do not pay what we ALL are worth. By this post you made, to me it comes across as hostility towards me directly and in reality I am on your side or I should say all of us who use our skilled labor to feed our family's.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So when I got my raises working as a rat, union scale went up?


Nope it sure didn't. Because generally when one insignificant person gets a raise it has no baring on an area. But when THOUSANDS of people in a particular area in a particular field get an increase it will effect the whole field.

Without knowing exactly where your at I'll use my neck of the woods as an example. The reason why your wages going up wouldn't have a direct result on union wages is quite frankly our wages are higher then yours already. I know a few non union electricians making good money(they all seem to hang out here) but I don't know any making $47 per hour in the check as a minimum.



> randomkiller;
> Well in a manner of speaking. The last two companies I have worked for
> pay some guys over scale. I have been with this company long enough to trust them on giving me any items due to me from our contract bargaining agreement. But, when it comes to bonuses and pay above scale, I want to make sure I get what a boss says I will get.


I know lot's of guy's making over scale, there's nothing wrong with that.
Maybe I interpreted your post wrong.
But the locals contract and the members position on it should still be important to you as a union member.




MF Dagger said:


> Is it common for people to be paid above scale?



Happens all the time. Isn't it weird how the people on this sight scream and cry about union members being overpaid, YET there still guy's out there making above and beyond the scale and contractors are still making out better.

Funny isn't it??.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

480sparky said:


> ALL non-union shops pay slave wages. The TRUTH of the matter is.... not all non-unions shops do.


What is the standard journeyman slave wage? How low does the bar go?

I'd venture that it is about 50% of the area's prevailing wage on the check.

If you are a real journeyman in Philadelphia working for $23.50 an hour with no benefits, then you sir, are a gawddammed rah-tard, and should not be in the trade dragging the rest of us down. (this is not toward you 480Sp.)


To work here, legally, a man must show proof of completing an apprenticeship, or 16000 legal verifiable experience under a master electrician, and pass a difficult exam, often with questions that have no bearing on day-to-day workings of the trade, then he may work for an electrical contractor as a journeyman. That keeps the wages pretty high compared to other places with a similar population makeup.

State-wide licensing IS the answer to better wages. It keeps outsiders fly-by-niters OUT.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> What is the standard journeyman slave wage? How low does the bar go?
> ................



So tell me, how to all you union guys know what I made?

Or are you just assuming because I'm a rat I work for cheese puffs?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> What is the standard journeyman slave wage? How low does the bar go?
> 
> I'd venture that it is about 50% of the area's prevailing wage on the check.
> 
> ...


Sadly Pennsylvania is in the dark ages and for some reason refuses to have a state wide license.

Some townships require a license and some don't. There's townships that allow you to do residential work with no license what so ever.

Oh yeah, only the contractor is required to have an electrical license.
If one desired to be an electrical contractor in the Philadelphia/Metro area you would most likely require three license's. The Philly license, the Jersey license, and the Cheltenham township license. The funny part about the last one is, it's basically an extension of Philadelphia but doesn't recognize the Philly license.

And then to make matters worse, in a lot of area's in Pennsy they don't have township inspectors you hire your own. So tell me how do you fail an inspection when your paying the inspector?????:blink:

When I worked open shop in the suburbs of Philadelphia anything over $18 per hour was considered high and the only guy's making over $25 were the guy's who have been with the contractor's for 10 or more years.

I worked for 3 different open shops doing new commercial construction and it was all pretty much the same. Even when I went on interviews contractor's wanted you to have a minimum of 5 years experience and know how to do everything under the sun for a whopping $15.

I'm sure wages went up a little since then but then again some of the guy's that I've remained friends with from my open shop days haven't had an increase in over a year due to the economy:whistling2:


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

Why so much union hate? Being from the south, I've never been a union member, but...all they are is a collective group of employees who insist on a contract. Every business owner wants a contract, too. Hell, I can't get my oil changed without signing papers first. What's the difference? :confused1:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

millerdrr said:


> Why so much union hate? Being from the south, I've never been a union member, but...all they are is a collective group of employees who insist on a contract. Every business owner wants a contract, too. Hell, I can't get my oil changed without signing papers first. What's the difference? :confused1:



Because unions are evil and are the cause of all problems in the workplace and are full of THUGS! Thugs I tell ya! And thieves too. And we... ooops... I mean THEY are ANTI management! ANTI ANTI ANTI! 

Well that's some of the reasons you'll hear. I'm sure you'll hear some more. In all seriousness... I'm a union member and I couldn't be happier. I'm grateful that I am able to live a humble life in the city I work in and I grateful for all the opportunities I have been given through my union. 

I'm also grateful that the owner of my shop owns a $15 million home in addition to other property and has plenty of big boy toys and even has a personal driver who can drive him to the private jet he owns a share of to take him to his vacation spot in the caribbean. Without him and people like him myself and fellow union brothers and sister (yea I said it and meant it) wouldn't be where we are.


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Because unions are evil and are the cause of all problems in the workplace and are full of THUGS! Thugs I tell ya! And thieves too. And we... ooops... I mean THEY are ANTI management! ANTI ANTI ANTI!
> 
> Well that's some of the reasons you'll hear. I'm sure you'll hear some more. In all seriousness... I'm a union member and I couldn't be happier. I'm grateful that I am able to live a humble life in the city I work in and I grateful for all the opportunities I have been given through my union.
> 
> I'm also grateful that the owner of my shop owns a $15 million home in addition to other property and has plenty of big boy toys and even has a personal driver who can drive him to the private jet he owns a share of to take him to his vacation spot in the caribbean. Without him and people like him myself and fellow union brothers and sister (yea I said it and meant it) wouldn't be where we are.


I'm glad you posted that last paragraph and I hope you meant it. The loudest pro-union voices on this forum have repeatedly expressed opinions contrary to yours as expressed in that last paragraph.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

amptech said:


> I'm glad you posted that last paragraph and I hope you meant it. The loudest pro-union voices on this forum have repeatedly expressed opinions contrary to yours as expressed in that last paragraph.



Of course I meant it. And it's true. 

But at the same time some of the loudest anti-union voices express themselves in a way that the organized workers demand too much. And there are those who state that if someone isn't happy move on or become a boss. Which is a great idea on paper but isn't always possible. 

The owner of my shop started out as an electrician and went through the apprenticeship. Bought a shop that employed less than 10 men and grew into a shop that reached it's peak at about 500 - 600 men. And I applaud him for that. That's a wonderful thing.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

amptech said:


> I'm glad you posted that last paragraph and I hope you meant it. The loudest pro-union voices on this forum have repeatedly expressed opinions contrary to yours as expressed in that last paragraph.


 You lost me somewhere.It has always been expressed to me that we as a whole must help a contractor earn money with all our efforts so in turn they will be able to hire more in the future. Once again this is basic ideals of economics within electrical construction.It makes no difference if we are union are not.One of the problems I have had is that the workers do their part and then greed takes over some contractors mindset to the point they do not allow the funds to trickle down to the workers. I have witnessed on an UI site a request for a state certified electrician paying $7.50 an hour.If a contractor can not afford to pay decent wages for quality work (with todays economy I do not see many that would qualify as decent wages) then why should they expect us to work for them?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Man many of you guys should be embarrassed to be crying so much.:jester:

Here we have a forum that has no real effect on anything, least of all any of our abilities to make a living.

But when people post things that do not complement the IBEW many of you cry like little kids.

I would really like you guys to consider how you would react if a bunch of merit shop workers tried to physically block you from getting to work and earning your living. I can bet you would not take kindly to that. That is the crap that has soured me towards the IBEWs methods.

So grow some skin or don't read the posts if all you can deal with is posts that kiss the IBEWs butt. :thumbsup:

Back to what I simply asked slick earlier.

Does anyone thing that a local raising there rates at this point in the economy is a good thing for those sitting on the bench?

And by the way, merit shops will not raise their pay scales during this economy regardless of what the locals do. :no:

When times are good I certainly received raises to keep up with the locals and I will never deny that, but right now times are not good and we will not raise our wages.

Slick said 'everything is going up'. Well that is not true, construction projects are going for less then they have in a while.


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Does anyone thing that a local raising there rates at this point in the economy is a good thing for those sitting on the bench?


 
Bob, I normally get tired of you chiming in on the union topics but in this case you make a valid point. The brothers and sisters need to hold the line or even take a cut in order to get the work. The good times are behind us, we need to start gaining back our share of the market. One half of a local living high on the hog and the other half in fear of losing thier homes. That is not brotherhood.


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> You lost me somewhere.It has always been expressed to me that we as a whole must help a contractor earn money with all our efforts so in turn they will be able to hire more in the future. Once again this is basic ideals of economics within electrical construction.It makes no difference if we are union are not.One of the problems I have had is that the workers do their part and then greed takes over some contractors mindset to the point they do not allow the funds to trickle down to the workers. I have witnessed on an UI site a request for a state certified electrician paying $7.50 an hour.If a contractor can not afford to pay decent wages for quality work (with todays economy I do not see many that would qualify as decent wages) then why should they expect us to work for them?


I don't know where or how I lost you. The most vocal union advocates on this site have made the point and pounded it home many times that the contractor is nothing more than a "pimp" and is not deserving of more than a token share of the profits. The position has always been that the contractor is actually paid by the workers and if the contractor makes too much money, the contract needs re-negotiating to better favor the worker. The union position, as expressed on this site, is that contractors actually risk little to nothing and reap large profits from the sweat of others. The destruction of a contractor only allows another to fill it's shoes because the work is always there. One notoriously vocal poster here suggested the role of a contractor should be non-profit so as to ensure the union worker received the maximum for his labor.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

crazymurph said:


> Bob, I normally get tired of you chiming in on the union topics but in this case you make a valid point.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day. :thumbsup:

And I will point out I stay out of all the threads with titles like 'Should I join the union?' 'How do I get in the union?' etc.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

crazymurph said:


> Bob, I normally get tired of you chiming in on the union topics but in this case you make a valid point. The brothers and sisters need to hold the line or even take a cut in order to get the work. The good times are behind us, we need to start gaining back our share of the market. One half of a local living high on the hog and the other half in fear of losing thier homes. That is not brotherhood.


well said:thumbsup:


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

bob is a very negative nasty person. I feel bad that his life revolves around belittling something he proves with every post he know nothing about. He is the loud mouth in the school yard that you look at but pitty. Shame he at one point in life probably had possibilities


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

minibdr said:


> bob is a very negative nasty person. I feel bad that his life revolves around belittling something he proves with every post he know nothing about. He is the loud mouth in the school yard that you look at but pitty. Shame he at one point in life probably had possibilities


Mini.. good to see you do another drive by and reinforce the reason why you weren't missed. 

About minibdr How did you find ElectricianTalk.com? 
Someone laughing about a good scab story


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

minibdr said:


> bob is a very negative nasty person.


Yeah, I push old ladies down the stairs and steal money from the poor. :thumbsup: 




> I feel bad that his life revolves around belittling something he proves with every post he know nothing about.


Don't be a shy girl, tell me what I do not know about.



> He is the loud mouth in the school yard


Could not be further from the truth. 



> Shame he at one point in life probably had possibilities


And you have likely always been a waste of protein. :yes:


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

amptech said:


> I'm glad you posted that last paragraph and I hope you meant it. The loudest pro-union voices on this forum have repeatedly expressed opinions contrary to yours as expressed in that last paragraph.


if the company is profitable we are profitable. I've been a member here in Ontario for the last 20 years and in those 20 years we have had a no lockout no walk out clause since 1990 and a raise of more than 60 cents every year. Granted not every year was the raise seen on the take home but we now have 90 % health and welfare benifits, a state of the art training school at our hall and over $6.50 per hour in our retirement savings plan.

We are slowly losing our traditional steel industry work but we are now starting to replace those jobs with wind and solar, institution, university and research and I can say that I make a great living in the service truck. I have also seen the nonunion contracter prosper and it is a fact that with every rate increase we get with our new contract the non union guys get an increase very shortly afterward.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Chances are good that if you are a member of the IBEW, 
you have had all kinds of mixed feelings about how the referral system works against us.

I do take notice, however, that areas with a higher market share have higher wages for everyone.

So the system works, but it doesn't???

Vic277, make me feel better about being organized. 

If I am working PW jobs, close to home, at a slower pace unlike a union sweat shop... how is it to my benefit to go back to work for a union EC who likes to smoke a couple Johns every Friday to keep the crew scared?

I want to be a member, and stay a member, I believe in the idea, but is it really working out best for me? Being a member now is just a good deed, and as they say, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

Maybe there is too many electricians, and not enough work. I am glad to have a job where I don't have to bow and scrape to hold on to it, but many many electricians aren't so lucky.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

amptech said:


> I don't know where or how I lost you. The most vocal union advocates on this site have made the point and pounded it home many times that the contractor is nothing more than a "pimp" and is not deserving of more than a token share of the profits. The position has always been that the contractor is actually paid by the workers and if the contractor makes too much money, the contract needs re-negotiating to better favor the worker. The union position, as expressed on this site, is that contractors actually risk little to nothing and reap large profits from the sweat of others. The destruction of a contractor only allows another to fill it's shoes because the work is always there. One notoriously vocal poster here suggested the role of a contractor should be non-profit so as to ensure the union worker received the maximum for his labor.


 I guess I missed that class, I have always given a contractor what he pays for, I can not post for all, I only know what I have been exposed to.

Bob I see the hostility in your post.I have been denied employment from an open shop several times because(I was told by the owners) you are union. This discrimination you describe goes both ways.
Now this thread should be a joyous event of our fellow mankind getting a cost of living raise but somehow it has turned into us versus them, WHY?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> ...............Bob I see the hostility in your post.I have been denied employment from an open shop several times because(I was told by the owners) you are union. This discrimination you describe goes both ways..............


I can't speak for Bob, but I think you're comparing apples and oranges here.

You were told by open-shop ECs they wouldn't hire you because you're union. They do that because they don't want salts in their shops.

Bob is saying he has been _physically prevented from entering a job site _to _do the job he had been hired to do_.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Bob I see the hostility in your post.


You are 'seeing' things that are not there. I don't wish any harm to the IBEW or it's decent members. (The A-Holes can burn in hell, but I feel that way about any A-hole) I just do not agree with all the union tactics. Since when is it wrong in America to voice ones disappointment with certain aspects of life. I love living in the US but firmly believe our government could do better. Does that mean I am 'hostile' to the United States?




> I have been denied employment from an open shop several times because(I was told by the owners) you are union. This discrimination you describe goes both ways.


I sure that happens, I have never said it does not. Merit shops are not perfect either. It happens where I work we have hired union members knowing full well they where salts, we have to.

But yet that is still not the same as having some uninvited group showing up at my job site and try to stop me from earning my money. If this happened to you you would be POed.




> Now this thread should be a joyous event of our fellow mankind getting a cost of living raise but somehow it has turned into us versus them, WHY?


No venom from me but I just do not see the boost to mankind when a small group just raised there wages to the determent of a large group sitting on a bench waiting for work. That does not sound very 'brotherly' to me.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> No venom from me but I just do not see the boost to mankind when a small group just raised there wages to the determent of a large group sitting on a bench waiting for work. That does not sound very 'brotherly' to me.



Bob I always took you for a smart guy but I'm kinda amazed that you can't see past your nose on this one. 

Lowering or freezing the wages has created ZERO job's. Now I understand in each area things will be a bit different but we have majority market share in our jurisdiction. There's no "B" ticket, no CE/CW classification, no small works agreement, the going JW rate is what the market pays for electrical work here.

What strikes me is the locals that have taken pay cuts and froze the wages are the ones that are in the worst shape.

How does an increase help the out of work members you ask?
Well the members that are working are taking care of the out of work members, our increase will pay for there health insurance(were covering the members and there families), it also will go towards our unemployment fund witch will be able to be extended once the fund starts to increase.The guy's who are out of work now understand that when they get back to work the increase in there pay will now help the people who are unemployed.

We're also increasing the pension contributions, lowering the retirement age and offering an early out with a $15k incentive check.
All this is being paid by the working membership and it's designed to get some of the older guy's to retire sooner then they would have been able to, witch in turn will get the unemployed back to work sooner. 

Here's a question I have, If an increase is so bad for business why did NECA fold like a wet paper bag during the negotiations? They went from wanting to give nothing and possibly get back to giving exactly what we asked.

Yes we have 800 members out of work BUT we still have 4200 members working.The list is moving and the way I see it everyone will have a turn.This is what unionism is suppose to be all about.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I can't speak for Bob, but I think you're comparing apples and oranges here.
> 
> You were told by open-shop ECs they wouldn't hire you because you're union. They do that because they don't want salts in their shops.
> 
> Bob is saying he has been _physically prevented from entering a job site _to _do the job he had been hired to do_.


 I do uderstand what Bob referred to was different, I only intended to explain we all have hardships in the construction field.Nice of you to take enough interest to post though.
Slickvic I agree that cuts in pay has NEVER created more work for more employee's, only more money for the contractors in the long run therfore the workers suffer. We are a skilled labor work force and I feel we should be paid a fair wage for a fair day of work.As I give 8 for 8 I expect to recieve it.


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## peanut136 (May 7, 2010)

I am new to the forum but I am a 3rd yr app out of 136. And in birmingham. Our negotaitions are coming up. But if the roomers are tru looks like we won't get anythijg and if nothing we may loose money. I hope all you brothers and sisters out there out of work get back soon. Good luck to all with contracts coming up.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

peanut136 said:


> I am new to the forum but I am a 3rd yr app out of 136. And in birmingham. Our negotaitions are coming up. But if the roomers are tru looks like we won't get anythijg and if nothing we may loose money. I hope all you brothers and sisters out there out of work get back soon. Good luck to all with contracts coming up.


Things that bad you have to take on roomers? :laughing:


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## peanut136 (May 7, 2010)

We have a heard from diff members on the commity diff stories. We vote tue so ill know for sure then. 480 sparky what local are you out of by the way


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

peanut136 said:


> We have a heard from diff members on the commity diff stories. We vote tue so ill know for sure then. 480 sparky what local are you out of by the way


Good luck to you on this site(we are but guest). The majority here have no union affiliation, some with past affliction with unions that bleed through their post.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Bob I always took you for a smart guy but I'm kinda amazed that you can't see past your nose on this one.


I can see past my nose it fine, it's my feet I have trouble seeing. :laughing:



> Lowering or freezing the wages has created ZERO job's.


Show me where I said it has?

But raising your wage will only help the group that is working, it does not help those on the bench.

Raising the costs of construction will take a certain number of jobs off the table. That is a fact.





> Now I understand in each area things will be a bit different but we have majority market share in our jurisdiction. There's no "B" ticket, no CE/CW classification, no small works agreement, the going JW rate is what the market pays for electrical work here.


Yet still, if you raise the costs of construction some jobs will get put off.



> What strikes me is the locals that have taken pay cuts and froze the wages are the ones that are in the worst shape.


Which came first?

You want to put this like freezing wages caused them to be in the worst shape when really being in the worst shape probably led to the freeze.





> How does an increase help the out of work members you ask?


I did not ask but I will read it. 




> Well the members that are working are taking care of the out of work members, our increase will pay for there health insurance(were covering the members and there families), it also will go towards our unemployment fund witch will be able to be extended once the fund starts to increase.The guy's who are out of work now understand that when they get back to work the increase in there pay will now help the people who are unemployed.


I know that would make me feel much better as I sit at home...... NOT!

Personally I would rather be working then taking handouts or other folks deciding what is best for me as I try to pay my bills.





> Here's a question I have, If an increase is so bad for business why did NECA fold like a wet paper bag during the negotiations? They went from wanting to give nothing and possibly get back to giving exactly what we asked.


You have already said.....



slickvic277 said:


> After tough negotiating and a near strike we got a new contract.


So which was it? Was it tough or did they fold like a wet bag? 

Sounds like the local threatened costly work stoppages at a time when no contractor can deal with more nails in their coffins. 



> Yes we have 800 members out of work BUT we still have 4200 members working.


So screw the 800, the 4200 got a raise, sorry I am missing the solidarity there. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

peanut136 said:


> ............. 480 sparky what local are you out of by the way



Now that right there is funny. I don't care who you are!


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Sounds like the local threatened costly work stoppages at a time when no contractor can deal with more nails in their coffins. 



So screw the 800, the 4200 got a raise, sorry I am missing the solidarity there. :no:[/quote]

Just about all locals have a NO STRIKE clause in their contracts. We advocate helping one another in hard times so it would be a hand Up not out. Any time any one of the working class gets a raise it is good for us ALL. If we held to the logic of helping each other instead of the "I got mine" adage, we would have a better working relationships.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> Bob Badger;
> Show me where I said it has?


Right here;



> ]Bob Badger;
> Back to what I simply asked slick earlier.
> 
> Does anyone thing that a local raising there rates at this point in the economy is a good thing for those sitting on the bench?


I explained this to you but i guess you don't get it.



> But raising your wage will only help the group that is working, it does not help those on the bench.


Again I explained this but I guess it flew over your head.



> Raising the costs of construction will take a certain number of jobs off the table. That is a fact.


Raising the price of construction might push some jobs back but the ones that were canceled would have been canceled anyway. The FACT is that a majority of the contractors electrical or other already figured there bids with an increase included since most of the area trades were all coming to the end of there contracts this year.




> Yet still, if you raise the costs of construction some jobs will get put off.


I don't buy it. The jobs that were canceled would have been canceled anyway. Mostly the projects that got held up were do to financing from banks way before a small increase in labor cost were figured.






> Which came first?
> 
> You want to put this like freezing wages caused them to be in the worst shape when really being in the worst shape probably led to the freeze.


No doubt a lot of unions across the country were in bad shape before the wage freeze or give backs but it's a desperation move IMO. People act like taking a cut creates or saves jobs and it doesn't. You dig yourself into a hole that you can't get out of.

You have to prepare yourself for the future and be financially sound.
Pensions got crushed in the market, people lost the value's of there homes and credit dried up. Meanwhile the cost of living keeps going up.

When the out of work members get back to work they'll be able to catch up. All the guy's who take pay cuts and freezes will be chasing money for a long long time.







> I did not ask but I will read it


. 


Yes you did.



> I know that would make me feel much better as I sit at home...... NOT!
> 
> Personally I would rather be working then taking handouts or other folks deciding what is best for me as I try to pay my bills.


.......and this is why I know you have no idea of the meaning of unionism, a GROUP of people working towards a common goal. Everyone shares in both the good and the bad.
And as much as you don't want to admit it you are the exception to the non union electrician not the rule. Many, many open shop electricians lost there jobs and if they were lucky enough to find another most took a significant pay cut. Wasn't there a thread recently about being able to take advantage of this situation if your an employer.

I realize not every local is the same and each market is different but in my neck of the woods we will not be unemployed for ever and our local won't go belly up, everyone will get back to work eventually and when they do they'll be earning a good wage not a decrease from an already pathetic rate. 







> So which was it? Was it tough or did they fold like a wet bag?
> 
> Sounds like the local threatened costly work stoppages at a time when no contractor can deal with more nails in their coffins.


It was both, they thought that they could use the economy against us and make demands without compromise. When they realized that we wouldn't be bullied they turned on there negotiating team and decided to sign the agreement. The fact of the matter was that most contractors bid all there current jobs with an increase included because of the upcoming contract, they were banking on a freeze and hoped to turn a bigger profit.




> So screw the 800, the 4200 got a raise, sorry I am missing the solidarity there. :no:


I explained it already. You just don't get it but I wouldn't really expect you to. In the end it doesn't matter we've been successful and faced tougher times in the past. We'll get through this and be better off then most once we do.


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

Our contract was ratified this evening. A modest raise, some work rule changes to help us compete with the rats and a first I think in the construction trades. Tell me if I`m wrong but we just got sick and personal days. Does any other local have such an animal?


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## Fusion (May 13, 2010)

At least minibdr doesn't write like a crack head anymore.


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

Another badger fan with absolutly nothing to say. Try to have a conversation and this is what you get. Shame.


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## Fusion (May 13, 2010)

minibdr said:


> Another badger fan with absolutly nothing to say. Try to have a conversation and this is what you get. Shame.


You don't buy yourself much good will when you throw the term "rat" around so flippantly, so don't expect anyone to take you seriously.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

minibdr said:


> Our contract was ratified this evening. A modest raise, some work rule changes to help us compete with the rats and a first I think in the construction trades. Tell me if I`m wrong but we just got sick and personal days. Does any other local have such an animal?



Sick and personal days???? Are they paid for?? Way to go. :thumbsup:


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## Boneshaker (Jul 31, 2009)

We settled with the contractors last week and we bring it to the body next week. It was actually one of the easiest contracts I have been involved with negotiating. We got a bit of a raise in three increments on a 2 year contract with some language changes to the collective bargaining agreement. We did not lose anything nor did the contractors really ask for anything, a nice change from previous negotiations. Now if we can do something about the rising cost of health insurance maybe those raises can go in the pockets of the men.

By the way minibdr nice going on the personal and sick days. We have tried for those a few times over the years but to no avail.


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