# A Crazy Idea for An Apprenticeship



## David C (May 19, 2015)

Just remember, everyone's first day on the job was with no real work experience (not talking about school or self-taught, or having someone show you). Contractors will ask for experienced workers because they rather have trained workers that will bring money in quick instead of having to train them and spend money on it.

Unless you can't even use a screwdriver, I don't think you should concern yourself with their minimum experience requirement, unless they are very specifically looking for a 2nd or 3rd level apprentice (usually related to the technical difficulty of the jobs they need the apprentice to do). If they're not very specific but more just 1 year of experience needed kinda thing, then go for it. If you're got any skills for this trade, then any good contractor will be able to see that you'd make a good apprentice and most likely will be willing to show you the ropes and granted you both get along, then you'll get to start building experience.

I don't know how it works in your state regarding union, schooling and apprenticeship regulations, but sounds like you need a job in order to apply for trade school ?

Don't work for free, instead ask for a trial period at a reasonable wage with a provision for better wage and benefit upon completion of the trial if the employer wants to keep you around, usually 2-3 weeks trial.

There's only two things you gotta do to keep your job.

#1 be on time, all the time. 
#2 don't argue (unless it's about safety) and only do as you're told.

That way your journeyman will be able to rely on his apprentice and you'll be staying clear of any responsibilities or decisions.

Plus as an apprentice you're cheap labor and this is a skilled trade, so don't go thinking your employer isn't gonna bill the client for your hard work because you're not asking to get paid. That's one of the reason why it's often easier to get a job when you're a first level apprentice because you don't cost much and they bill two guys and rack twice as much as they paid you haha.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I don't think it's an all bad idea. Another way to go, if you're going to give it away, give it to a worthy cause. People here have recommended habitat for humanity, that would work. Go to every church or charity around and ask if they have someone who donates electrical work, you'd like to help them to gain some experience and support a good cause in the process. You might be able to volunteer with maintenance departments at nursing homes, schools, etc. It might be changing fluorescent lamps and putting new aerators in faucets but who cares.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Free labor might conflict with labor laws (although some professions call slave labor an “internship”).


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

1st of all...no don't work for free

2nd of all ...just tell em you have 3 months experience. 

There's no way they can gauge that accurately....besides ,
most guys are just go fer's the first 3 months. It's not like they have
a guy in a 90 day probationary period doing anything of real value.

Oye-yoy-yoy


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Better yet...go to the orange store and spring for the 15$ book
on how to wire a house...read it ...and then go to your interview.

You'll come across sounding like you got 1 year experience.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Working for free got me a job at a bicycle/snowboard store when I was a teenager.

I had applied at every one in town with no luck. Walked into a small shop, just the owner and one employee that just got a shipment of about 30 new bikes. They were all in boxes. Told the owner I would build all the bikes for free for him. Took about a week and in that time I established a good relationship with the owner. Ended up working there for a few years and I’m still in contact with the owner.


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## Journey 2 Master (Mar 11, 2019)

If I was running a small outfit with not a lot of liability over my shoulders and was hiring apprentices I might do something like this...for the right person. If I had a kid show up hungry, wanting a job, was obvious they'd researched a lot about the trade and seemed like an impressive ass-busting worker...AND they said they'd work for free for a while until they proved their worth? **** ya, why not. Maybe just put a disclosure in that says the company is not liable for anything you **** up since you're not "technically" an employee yet. Large companies probably wouldn't touch a deal like this, but the small ones have a lot more flexibility.

Good luck, let us know if it ends up working out!


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## Journey 2 Master (Mar 11, 2019)

99cents said:


> Free labor might conflict with labor laws (although some professions call slave labor an “internship”).


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh: you're not wrong


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*It wouldn't work with the union?*



99cents said:


> Free labor might conflict with labor laws (although some professions call slave labor an “internship”).


I guess that means this has no chance of working if I wanted to get hours that the IBEW would later recognize in it's apprenticeship program by going to work for an IBEW contractor then.


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## Journey 2 Master (Mar 11, 2019)

Probably not, but considering that you're just trying to get your foot in the door and an apprenticeship is years long so I wouldn't even go there in my mind. A couple weeks/months is nothing in the course of a 10-20 year career.

That being said I don't think I would agree to work for free for months. Maybe 30 days if I was really desperate. I'd say "let me show you what I can do, in 30 days you'll know whether or not I'm worth putting more time into PAID." And really put your A-game on for that 30 days. There's always the chance that it won't work out. You need to accept that ahead of time too.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

*A Better Use of Time*



Journey 2 Master said:


> I don't think I would agree to work for free for months. Maybe 30 days if I was really desperate. I'd say "let me show you what I can do, in 30 days you'll know whether or not I'm worth putting more time into PAID." And really put your A-game on for that 30 days. There's always the chance that it won't work out. You need to accept that ahead of time too.


Yeah, I'm thinking that might not necessarily be the best use of my time. I have a non-electrical job that I work, and so not only would be I be working for someone for free, but I'd also be passing up on a good bit of income from the non-electrical work that could be used to pay for classes at the local community college that would allow for some hands-on training, and potentially place me in an paid apprenticeship through the connections that the local community college has.

I'd have to look into it more, but I think working for an electrical contractor that they place people with, is a requirement to get either a certificate or diploma in electrical work at the community college. Except my goal wouldn't be to get the certificate, or diploma. It would be to get the experience.

By the way, I like your user name. Reminds me of the "Journey 2 Master", and "Electrician U" channels on Youtube. Some good stuff on there for electrical helpers.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

splatz said:


> I don't think it's an all bad idea. Another way to go, if you're going to give it away, give it to a worthy cause. People here have recommended habitat for humanity, that would work. Go to every church or charity around and ask if they have someone who donates electrical work, you'd like to help them to gain some experience and support a good cause in the process. You might be able to volunteer with maintenance departments at nursing homes, schools, etc. It might be changing fluorescent lamps and putting new aerators in faucets but who cares.



splaz is correct doing charity work for churches, HFH, nursing homes and your local fire dept can not only give you some good experience but you can also get some damn good references to put on your resume as well
and any time spent in earning experience is well used time!
also consider if you are doing work in a hospital you get specialized skill sets and possibly a permanent job offer out of it.


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## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

Do not work for free ever.

Call the local IBEW union hall and tell them you want to join the apprenticeship. They will refer you to the apprenticeship school who will give you a reading comprehension and algebra test. (if you are rusty, inexpensive review books are available at bookstores.) If you pass those, they will interview you to see if you are serious, or just wasting their time. Pass that and you are in.

They will assign you to paying jobs. Apprentices are in high demand in most places. You will be fully trained in the trade. In five years you will be a journeyman who can command a good wage and benefits.

If for some reason your local is not accepting apprentices at this time, it is worth your time to move near a local that is. If you are going to move, inquire about the pay and move near the one that pays the most compared to the cost of living. The journeyman rates vary across the country from about $20 to $50+ per hour.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> Working for free got me a job at a bicycle/snowboard store when I was a teenager.
> 
> I had applied at every one in town with no luck. Walked into a small shop, just the owner and one employee that just got a shipment of about 30 new bikes. They were all in boxes. Told the owner I would build all the bikes for free for him. Took about a week and in that time I established a good relationship with the owner. Ended up working there for a few years and I’m still in contact with the owner.


yeah...but eddy. You were a kid , my guess living under a parent or guardians roof ...no bills?

That's kinda different ...no?

OP could always do volunteer work in his idle time for a non profit , but work for free for a "for profit" biz..naahhhhh.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I don't think we can debate that illegal immigration is driving wages down especially in the trades they have now infiltrated.
If that's not bad enough , a precedence being set to work 30 days for free
in any business is just something we don't need to start in this country. 

Common people!


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

lighterup said:


> yeah...but eddy. You were a kid , my guess living under a parent or guardians roof ...no bills?
> 
> That's kinda different ...no?
> 
> .


No, I was on my own while still in high school. (Things were different then)

When I got this job, I was out of high school and working at a auto parts delivery place full time.(NAPA) I had my own car and lived with roommates. One week off to put together brand new bikes at a chance of getting a job doing what I loved was worth it to me at the time. 

I was a snowboarder and raced DH mountain bikes, wanted to work in the industry big time.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

All these would add time to the reach the end goal. If you can’t just go out and apply somewhere without worrying about the year experience, maybe apply to night school Vo-Tech. You could work your current job and go to school at night. The schools here have some sort of placement program. At least I know the contractors can look there for cheap labor. 

I don’t know how your state handles/requires a true apprenticeship. There is no such requirement here, but night school VoTech counts towards the requirements for getting your contractors license. 

In the past you didn’t need any school to sit for the exam. If you had school it reduced your in the field hours. Most probably didn’t do any school, just five years documented in the field and a cram course. Here you don’t need to be in an apprenticeship, or licensed to work for an EC.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> No, I was on my own while still in high school. (Things were different then)
> 
> When I got this job, I was out of high school and working at a auto parts delivery place full time.(NAPA) I had my own car and lived with roommates. One week off to put together brand new bikes at a chance of getting a job doing what I loved was worth it to me at the time.
> 
> I was a snowboarder and raced DH mountain bikes, wanted to work in the industry big time.


when i was about 14 years old , i worked in an exotic pet wholesalers 
business. I got paid in bags of refer:vs_laugh:...but I got paid.

Unfortunately...the guy was bootlegging all these central and south 
american birds , snakes , animals into the country and got caught by the Feds.

they came in and killed every one of em.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

You guys had cool jobs. 

I had a job junior year after school cleaning with the janitors. Me and the other kid at night would disappear for a bit. Then come back an jimmy the door on the baking shop for a snack!

By the following year I had a job over the summer with an EC. I worked it out that I left school at noon to go to work. CIE program.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HertzHound said:


> You guys had cool jobs.
> 
> I had a job junior year after school cleaning with the janitors. Me and the other kid at night would disappear for a bit. Then come back an jimmy the door on the baking shop for a snack!
> 
> By the following year I had a job over the summer with an EC. I worked it out that I left school at noon to go to work. CIE program.


Yeah I did the "janitor" jobs also , but through school OWA program.
It was for the burn outs who wouldn't or couldn't maintain an 8 hour day in classes:vs_laugh:


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## Bleddyn (Aug 29, 2018)

*If* you're wiling to 'work for free' to gain some experience, do so by volunteering on a Habitat for Humanity build; not for a for-profit business.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

Coppersmith said:


> Do not work for free ever.
> 
> Call the local IBEW union hall and tell them you want to join the apprenticeship. They will refer you to the apprenticeship school who will give you a reading comprehension and algebra test. (if you are rusty, inexpensive review books are available at bookstores.) If you pass those, they will interview you to see if you are serious, or just wasting their time. Pass that and you are in.


I have already contacted them. I was informed I have until April 29th to get the application in, but I don't feel all that encouraged about my odds of getting in. Their website indicates they get over a 100 applicants at any given time, and when I look at their most recent grads photo, I only see 7 people in that photo. Assuming my chances of getting in are only 7%, I'm not so sure that I should count on being able to.

So I'm thinking I should go about things in the following way:


 Try to get into the union apprenticeship, but don't count on it
 If that fails, then try to do a non-union apprenticeship
 If I can't do that, try signing up at the local community college and completing their electrical certificate program, which includes work-based learning. The certificate itself I would imagine would probably be worthless, but the knowledge and experience gained might be worth something.
 If none of the above work, then consider volunteer work for the habitat for humanity on a part time basis. 
 Assuming I didn't get into the union apprenticeship on the first try, maybe doing the other things would help me in doing so on the second try should it be necessary, and still what I want to do after gaining experience in other ways.


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Coppersmith said:


> Do not work for free ever.
> 
> *Call the local IBEW union hall and tell them you want to join the apprenticeship. They will refer you to the apprenticeship school who will give you a reading comprehension and algebra test. (if you are rusty, inexpensive review books are available at bookstores.) If you pass those, they will interview you to see if you are serious, or just wasting their time. Pass that and you are in.*
> 
> ...



Really?


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## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

DeterminedSparky said:


> I have already contacted them. I was informed I have until April 29th to get the application in, but I don't feel all that encouraged about my odds of getting in. Their website indicates they get over a 100 applicants at any given time, and when I look at their most recent grads photo, I only see 7 people in that photo. Assuming my chances of getting in are only 7%, I'm not so sure that I should count on being able to.


You are making an incorrect assumption. The reason you only see 7 people in the graduation photo is because 23 people either dropped out or failed out. This work is not for everybody. If you are motivated, you will succeed at it. We get lots of unmotivated people who start and never finish.


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## DeterminedSparky (Mar 14, 2019)

Coppersmith said:


> You are making an incorrect assumption. *The reason you only see 7 people in the graduation photo is because 23 people either dropped out or failed out.* This work is not for everybody. If you are motivated, you will succeed at it. We get lots of unmotivated people who start and never finish.


Well, thanks for pointing that out. Good to know my odds of getting in aren't quite that dismal.


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## RaptorsSparky (Dec 26, 2018)

You just have to wait for the right opportunity. It may take while to find, but i suggest you find another job for the time being while looking for an opportunity in the electrical trade. Don't work for free. Electrical work is hard work, if you do it day in and day out. Its high in demand you will get paid for it.


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

Depending on your state, might not even be allowed to do any electrical work without an apprentice license, and when you eventually go for your J-card don't be surprised to see that your time spent "interning" doesn't show up.


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## Alec thenice (May 31, 2019)

*IBEW apprenticeship*



Coppersmith said:


> Do not work for free ever.
> 
> Call the local IBEW union hall and tell them you want to join the apprenticeship. They will refer you to the apprenticeship school who will give you a reading comprehension and algebra test. (if you are rusty, inexpensive review books are available at bookstores.) If you pass those, they will interview you to see if you are serious, or just wasting their time. Pass that and you are in.
> 
> ...


I recently went through the process you described above. In my interview the men interviewing me seemed impressed. One man told me he was very impressed. How long can I expect to wait before I hear back from them? Should I be perusing other opportunities at this time?


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## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

Alec thenice said:


> I recently went through the process you described above. In my interview the men interviewing me seemed impressed. One man told me he was very impressed. How long can I expect to wait before I hear back from them? Should I be perusing other opportunities at this time?


Every apprenticeship board operates at it's own speed. I would wait a week and then call the school's director and ask "Has the board made a decision yet?". If s/he says no, ask "When do you expect a decision will be made?" That should get you the info you need.

Assuming you get in, and I have no doubt you will based on your description of events, you will likely be put to work immediately, however, you may not be placed in the school for several months. Don't worry. You will be gaining experience just the same. Your early experience will likely include running to get stuff and digging ditches. The longer you work, the more interesting and important the work you will be given. Remember this: In five years you will be a journeyman and will be commanding your own apprentices. 

If you need to look for other work while you are waiting, do what you need to do, but don't let it distract you from getting into the union. Your union training and experience is the golden ticket.


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

DeterminedSparky said:


> I guess that means this has no chance of working if I wanted to get hours that the IBEW would later recognize in it's apprenticeship program by going to work for an IBEW contractor then.



First off that is not how the IBEW works at least in my state. 
You pay a fee to take a test administered by the state and depending on your score you get accepted. How many apprentices are taken depends on the jurisdiction. In my local there were about 2600 people who took the test and around 350 people were accepted. 

Some locals may give a placement test for apprentices with experience but others do not and this generally only applies to apprentices who were organized in. I was a non union apprentice with 4 years experience who also went to a local college to get an electrical certificate before I ever worked in the electrical industry. When organized in I started as a 3 year so I basically lost 2 years looking at it from a non union perspective because of the timing of when I was organized in and when the school semester started and it was still the best move I ever made concerning my career and never bothered me at all. Other apprentices in different years had to start as first years. 


Experience has zero to do with becoming an IBEW apprentice. I have worked with at 2 apprentices who were public school teachers and had no electrical experience. I have worked with young women who have no experience as the IBEW seek to recruit women into the industry. I have many apprentices and experience matters very little. Knowing basic algebra and a little geometry is needed, hand tools we use in our industry ( and I mean the proper name not what we actually call them) is helpful as well as the ability to listen and work without whining will carry you

Never work for free either. You are not a slave. 
Your labor regardless of experience has value and DONT you ever forget that


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

bostonPedro said:


> First off that is not how the IBEW works at least in my state.....
> 
> 
> *.....Experience has zero to do with becoming an IBEW apprentice*. I have worked with at 2 apprentices who were public school teachers and had no electrical experience. I have worked with young women who have no experience as the IBEW seek to recruit women into the industry. I have many apprentices and experience matters very little. Knowing basic algebra and a little geometry is needed, hand tools we use in our industry ( and I mean the proper name not what we actually call them) is helpful as well as the ability to listen and work without whining will carry you
> ...


 You are spot on with this one. Here in Saint Louis, You can be a high school drop out, drivers license somewhere between suspended or revoked and have a sealed juvenile "juvey" record(one or more felony convictions before age 18) and get opportunity after opportunity after opportunity, a.k.a. "Henry's Boy". All you need is "connections".
On the other hand, you can have relevant post secondary education, military or work experience and a clean record and never be allowed to test/interview for anything ever. Be told you'll never qualify and if you need work to go down to the carpenters hall and apply. I should have saved that 1987 document, like so many others got.


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## Alec thenice (May 31, 2019)

Coppersmith said:


> Every apprenticeship board operates at it's own speed. I would wait a week and then call the school's director and ask "Has the board made a decision yet?". If s/he says no, ask "When do you expect a decision will be made?" That should get you the info you need.
> 
> Assuming you get in, and I have no doubt you will based on your description of events, you will likely be put to work immediately, however, you may not be placed in the school for several months. Don't worry. You will be gaining experience just the same. Your early experience will likely include running to get stuff and digging ditches. The longer you work, the more interesting and important the work you will be given. Remember this: In five years you will be a journeyman and will be commanding your own apprentices.
> 
> If you need to look for other work while you are waiting, do what you need to do, but don't let it distract you from getting into the union. Your union training and experience is the golden ticket.


My organizer followed up with me on Monday via phone call and told me that there were 10 applicants and the board didnt make a decision before closing the day we interviewed. He says the next classes are slated for Sept. They may be postponed and the organizer is unsure if work will begin before classes. I dont have much contracting experience but it sounds like they didnt get as many applicants as they had planned. What does this sound like to experienced heads?


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## Coppersmith (Aug 11, 2017)

Alec thenice said:


> My organizer followed up with me on Monday via phone call and told me that there were 10 applicants and the board didnt make a decision before closing the day we interviewed. He says the next classes are slated for Sept. They may be postponed and the organizer is unsure if work will begin before classes. I dont have much contracting experience but it sounds like they didnt get as many applicants as they had planned. What does this sound like to experienced heads?


Sounds like they don't have enough work for the current membership and they don't want to bring in more apprentices until they do.


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## Alec thenice (May 31, 2019)

Coppersmith said:


> Sounds like they don't have enough work for the current membership and they don't want to bring in more apprentices until they do.


Interesting, I wonder if I can persue other apprentice oppertunities until I get more information? I obviously have no idea how to gauge when more work will come. I have seen listings for helpers and apprentices with non-union employers. I held off on applying because I had thought that the IBEW interview went so well.


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