# box supported soley by raceways



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't know why, but that box reminds me of this guy for somw reason


View attachment 15417


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

elecpatsfan said:


> Big hotel renovation here on Cape Cod, I pop the ceiling tile and see this box floating in mid air supported by nothing more than the conduits and cables running into it. It's disgusting but it's par for the course around this place!


What is that an EMT off set connector ....:laughing:


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

3 or more pipes and no support required, not that I agree with that.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

347sparky said:


> 3 or more pipes and no support required, not that I agree with that.


 
Really?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

347sparky said:


> 3 or more pipes and no support required, not that I agree with that.


You will have to show me that code section. 

I do know one that allows two or more threaded conduits to support a box with threaded hubs.


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

347sparky said:


> 3 or more pipes and no support required, not that I agree with that.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

I'd be willing to bet that box did hang on a wall at some point in time and after a remodel (with no Electricians present) it was left that way:-( See it way too often and catch alot of other trades doing it to the plumbing and electrical!


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

That's nothing extraordinary.

The lights still work don't they?


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

Frasbee said:


> That's nothing extraordinary.
> 
> The lights still work don't they?


Nope it's not. Came across this beauty today.


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

> You will have to show me that code section.
> 
> I do know one that allows two or more threaded conduits to support a box with threaded hubs.


 

That's what I get for using my memory, threaded hubs only.


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## kevink1955 (Apr 25, 2012)

Was it ever permited to support 1900 boxes with conduit.

I service a building (firehouse) that was built in 1963, it's all cinder block construction including the interior walls. The original ceilings were spline tile now long gone and replaced by lay in tile.

All the original conduit (3/4" emt) was supported by tie wire mid span and the holes in the cinder block when it passed from room to room. Every place they needed to do a fixture wip they installed a 1900 in mid air supported by the EMT. Not to mention the original spline tile made all the boxes inaccessable.

The job passed inspection in 1963 by the NY Board Of Fire Underwriters and of all the buildings I serviced over 30 years this one has been the most trouble free, never had a bad splice (old bakelite wire nuts) and Hatfield Havinol type TW wire. Care was taken by the original installers in splicing, all evenly twisted before the wirenuts were installed, a nice clean install done by people who cared.

The building has had a few renovations over the years and the inspectors never questioned the floating boxes even when existing circiuts were extended.

So was it ever legal to float and conceal boxes as was done here??


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

elecpatsfan said:


> Big hotel renovation here on Cape Cod, I pop the ceiling tile and see this box floating in mid air supported by nothing more than the conduits and cables running into it. It's disgusting but it's par for the course around this place!


haha that is almost exactly what i had to deal with today in the Tbar ceiling. I threw an extension on the box, added my cable and moved on. it was supported with 2 strands of bailing wire though... :laughing:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

No, it was never legal to support a 4-square by the pipe alone. 

In tough situations, I've done this:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No, it was never legal to support a 4-square by the pipe alone.
> 
> In tough situations, I've done this:


Didn't that idea come from George Stolz originally?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Didn't that idea come from George Stolz originally?


No. It's possible he did something similar. I think he did something tricky with pipe stub-outs from the top of partition walls or something. That pic I just posted is at least 10 years old. Maybe 15.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No. It's possible he did something similar. I think he did something tricky with pipe stub-outs from the top of partition walls or something. That pic I just posted is at least 10 years old. Maybe 15.


Oh, ok. I could've sworn he posted that picture at M.H. forum from one of his jobs, but I guess my memory is failing me.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Oh, ok. I could've sworn he posted that picture at M.H. forum from one of his jobs, but I guess my memory is failing me.


Hmmm... Seems I posted it there in 2007. Maybe a couple times before that. I'm not sure.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=85347&p=669960#post669960

That picture has been robbed and reposted by many, and has even appeared in print. Once you put it on the internet, I guess it's fair game.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

kevink1955 said:


> Was it ever permited to support 1900 boxes with conduit.
> 
> I service a building (firehouse) that was built in 1963, it's all cinder block construction including the interior walls. The original ceilings were spline tile now long gone and replaced by lay in tile.
> 
> ...


NYBFU, they passed anything large payers sent them. Mayfair Garden Apts, Commack Bldg 7 , 40' of 400 amp service lateral run in RMC unfused from LIPA Xformer in a concealed ceiling , flied by Newbridge in 64'


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## kevink1955 (Apr 25, 2012)

So much for service disconnect close to entry point, you still see 40 feet of SER run across a home to the panel without an outside disconnect but being from the area you already know that.

Lots of "drive by inspections" done around here.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

kevink1955 said:


> So much for service disconnect close to entry point, you still see 40 feet of SER run across a home to the panel without an outside disconnect but being from the area you already know that.
> 
> Lots of "drive by inspections" done around here.


Many of the 60's tract homes wired by a large IBEW25 contractor had parallel #6 al GECs for 200 amp services. There's a reason why NYBFU went under, I've seen work pass that I personally would have said, rip it out and start all over.


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

TOOL_5150 said:


> haha that is almost exactly what i had to deal with today in the Tbar ceiling. I threw an extension on the box, added my cable and moved on. it was supported with 2 strands of bailing wire though... :laughing:


i remember my first jobsite too...

You guys must have been following eachother around by what im reading here. 

complain complain, then when it comes down to it you still take the easy way out.. diddnt i see one of you are union? man i dont know what theyre teachin the boys down at the hall, but  hey! i know the other qualities are easy, the laziness, work smart not hard attitude, arrogance, etc. but also being ignorant on top of all of that.. dang.. good luck in the field!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

WyeDelta said:


> i remember my first jobsite too...
> 
> You guys must have been following eachother around by what im reading here.
> 
> complain complain, then when it comes down to it you still take the easy way out.. diddnt i see one of you are union? man i dont know what theyre teachin the boys down at the hall, but  hey! i know the other qualities are easy, the laziness, work smart not hard attitude, arrogance, etc. but also being ignorant on top of all of that.. dang.. good luck in the field!


Welcome back to ET troll. :laughing:


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## YeahOkay (Jun 5, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> No, it was never legal to support a 4-square by the pipe alone.
> 
> In tough situations, I've done this:


Why wouldn't you just drop a piece of Kindorf/Strut and use spring/square nuts to support the boxes instead of using sheet metal? I must be missing something because I don't see the tricky part.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

YeahOkay said:


> Why wouldn't you just drop a piece of Kindorf/Strut and use spring/square nuts to support the boxes instead of using sheet metal? I must be missing something because I don't see the tricky part.


You're missing the requirement to secure the conduit to the box within 3'. The sheet metal accomplishes that.


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## YeahOkay (Jun 5, 2011)

Ah I couldn't even see the straps into the sheet metal before you said that. It still looks hackish to me, I would rather see 3 trapezes for an install like that. At the very lest a piece of strut above that sheet metal to give it some actual rigid support.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Many of the 60's tract homes wired by a large IBEW25 contractor had parallel #6 al GECs for 200 amp services. There's a reason why NYBFU went under, I've seen work pass that I personally would have said, rip it out and start all over.


They also used EMT for the riser on UG services instead of RMC.. 

So far I have not found one EMT riser that wasn't rusted through at grade level..

Some of those developments are 500+ high end houses.. :no::no:


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

WyeDelta said:


> i remember my first jobsite too...
> 
> You guys must have been following eachother around by what im reading here.
> 
> complain complain, then when it comes down to it you still take the easy way out.. diddnt i see one of you are union? man i dont know what theyre teachin the boys down at the hall, but  hey! i know the other qualities are easy, the laziness, work smart not hard attitude, arrogance, etc. but also being ignorant on top of all of that.. dang.. good luck in the field!


Wow seven posts along and you're already a pos troll. Good for you.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> Wow seven posts along and you're already a pos troll. Good for you.


I think the above was his first post ...... :laughing:


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

YeahOkay said:


> Ah I couldn't even see the straps into the sheet metal before you said that. It still looks hackish to me, I would rather see 3 trapezes for an install like that. At the very lest a piece of strut above that sheet metal to give it some actual rigid support.


i agree, sheet metal plates are kinda tacky, buuuuut he did only have to use 2 pieces of rod and like 20 minis and asst. nuts bolts etc. cost of material, as well as time spent, i think your spot on (and i believe the code does allow to strap with in 5 feet of box, unbroken, where structurally able.) either way if thats exposed ehh b-, a+ in a ciling, kindorf just looks better exposed u know!:thumbup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

YeahOkay said:


> Ah I couldn't even see the straps into the sheet metal before you said that. It still looks hackish to me, I would rather see 3 trapezes for an install like that. At the very lest a piece of strut above that sheet metal to give it some actual rigid support.


You'll be interested to know that this pic has also appeared in black and white, in a NECA workmanship guide under the section on proper support. :laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> They also used EMT for the riser on UG services instead of RMC..
> 
> So far I have not found one EMT riser that wasn't rusted through at grade level..
> 
> Some of those developments are 500+ high end houses.. :no::no:


I worked for that IBEW residential shop in the mid 90's on the estimating team. It was a pleasant place while the original founder, Herb was at the wheel. But the workplace practices and crews were robbing them blind. They finally went under.


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