# Considering the switch



## Electrozappo (Apr 8, 2014)

Been considering going Union. 
I'm a licensed journeyman , and have 9 years in the field. 
I've only worked for one contractor and went through the abc program. 
I want to leave as merit shop is not as rewarding as they preach and the family aspect my company claims is rapidly declining as their labor force balloons with the best economy I as a guy in his 20s has ever known. 
They pay 20k less a year than Union and don't negotiate. So I figure if I'm just going to get what I get why not go to the highest bidder. 
The long term benefits and opportunities seem much better at local 11 than my contractor who just hires guys at way higher wages than the loyal guys get to run jobs instead of bumping us up. These guys don't care about the company or anyone there. 
After the years of hearing about the other big boys helix and berg I can tell my shop is the best merit shop in so. cal but they don't want to pay or provide opportunities for advancement. 

I've heard that when making the transition you Union boys are not so welcoming, just want to hear some good and bad stories from personal experience you guys got. 




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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

As someone who went the other way, they were very unfriendly. But 15 years later they(local guys) are better. In the end, it's what's best for you that counts.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Really depends on your coworkers, how they treat people that did not go through their apprenticeship. 

I can tell you that the apprentices are taught to not ever listen to a person that organised in, because they don't know anything.

At the end of the day they will get the short end of things. Not as much OT, laid off first, dispatch errors (you didn't get the same call you asked for), get hammered if you break any rules. it affects your income. 

They are all fine with you working union until it comes to you and not them working.

Some will go as far as complain to their foreman or stuard the person that organised in is getting something the good old boy isn't. Not that it's a formal rule against it.

Others are just fine. They may have organised in also, just out of the apprenticeship, or been around enough to know it's BS to do.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Aw hell I was hoping for another Bruce / Kaitlyn Jenner thread


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## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

Electrozappo said:


> Been considering going Union.
> I'm a licensed journeyman , and have 9 years in the field.
> I've only worked for one contractor and went through the abc program.
> I want to leave as merit shop is not as rewarding as they preach and the family aspect my company claims is rapidly declining as their labor force balloons with the best economy I as a guy in his 20s has ever known.
> ...


My advice to you is if you do join is to worry about yourself and not anybody else.


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

goodluck to you! im going to try to switch over myself


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> Really depends on your coworkers, how they treat people that did not go through their apprenticeship.
> 
> I can tell you that the apprentices are taught to not ever listen to a person that organised in, because they don't know anything.
> 
> ...



*1. I always made over scale

2. Only laid off when I needed some time for personal reasons

3. Was fortunate enough to work for companies that gave better than contract benefits

4. Had more OT than I could ask for

5. Was normally the guy that the bosses sent to their friends and their own homes*


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## Glock23gp (Mar 10, 2014)

The IBEW has been losing members and market share so they will welcome you with open arms if your a skilled tradesman.

With that said it's all going to depend on who you work for how your experience goes. Union or non union your going to have a$$ hat employees here and there.

When I organized in I was told don't be the fastest or slowest and you will fit in just fine.

I organized in a few yrs after I journeyed out and couldn't be happier. Unfortunately the economy crashed in 2007 right after I organized so I took off and worked on the road for a couple of years which was a great experience.

Before my divorce I had a ton of money in my retirement after only working a few years with a bunch of overtime.

I'm not sure if you know but they pay into your retirement a certain dollar amount for every hour you work so the more you work, the more you have in your retirement.

Remember happiness should supercede pay. However making the money you deserve is also important and if your employer doesn't recognize your value and try and do what's in their financial power I wouldn't heist to organize and make a ton more $.

GL whatever you decide.

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## Electrozappo (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks for the replies dudes. 
I'm really thinking it will provide the best and a bigger variety of opportunities and the allowance to give my kids the best I can. 
I have a review coming up in a couple months so I think I'll see what they have to offer then and make my decision. 
Seems to me it's just a different game and I can learn to play it. 
I do like all the training provided, that means a lot. 


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

My 2 cents on the OP "considering the switch"...

I've done both and in my humble opinion , if you're still in
your 20's I would either organize in or maybe even do the
apprenticeship while your still young(er)...

What I've noticed about small family run businesses has a
2 way perspective and depending on your point of view ,
there are valid points , so I'm not indicting family businesses
across the board , just a couple that I worked for.

Having said that , my problem(s) working for a small family 
business was ..a) what you mentioned...being underpaid..
The big problem I had with that was there were family members
who worked in the office in "top heavy" management positions
who (in my perspective" were obviously making good money
based on the cars they drove , the houses they owned , the clothes
they wore , the toys ...RV's ...etc)

They were not in the trades..they did "office work"...whatever 
that means.

All that did for me was set a desire to start my own business
and what I suspected about "office work" was confirmed when
I opened my own doors...there's not that much work involved 
that requires 4-5 Office employees , I can tell ya that... and I am
considering the differences in work volume of those businesses
vs my small business.

So in a nut shell , the wages that the tradesman should be paid 
were being diverted to family members in meaningless jobs....
I guess they thought all of us were blind and wouldn't notice
that and I never made it a point to complain about that , I just
became their competition.


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## MCasey (Dec 7, 2016)

lighterup said:


> My 2 cents on the OP "considering the switch"...
> 
> I've done both and in my humble opinion , if you're still in
> your 20's I would either organize in or maybe even do the
> ...


Coming from a multigenerational family run business not all are the same. All but the girls in our family have been out there in the field long before ever being put in an office position. The boys of the family spent summers and school vacations working as helpers and ditch diggers in the business.. Even the girls have done warehouse duty while still in school and similar menial jobs in thebusiness. our patriarch came up through the trade and after military service and more time in the trade opened a business that he planned on leaving behind to his heirs.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MCasey said:


> Coming from a multigenerational family run business not all are the same. All but the girls in our family have been out there in the field long before ever being put in an office position. The boys of the family spent summers and school vacations working as helpers and ditch diggers in the business.. Even the girls have done warehouse duty while still in school and similar menial jobs in thebusiness. our patriarch came up through the trade and after military service and more time in the trade opened a business that he planned on leaving behind to his heirs.


I respect that , that's why i said "not indicting all small family run
businesses" , all I can share is what I experienced..

As a hard worker , it's disturbing to walk by and see higher paid "family members" in an office environment playing video games on their computers all the while knowing there is no chance whatsoever of upward mobility in a company that has preferred treatment based on blood relations is a sure 
fire way of loosing motivated employees.

Oh and BTW , when it comes to pay reviews it's even more disturbing
to be told one just isn't worth a buck or two more an hour after
witnessing such blatant waste.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

All jobs have an expiration date so to speak. When you've learned all you can and/or there is no more advancement, it's time to move on generally speaking.


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## MCasey (Dec 7, 2016)

lighterup said:


> I respect that , that's why i said "not indicting all small family run
> businesses" , all I can share is what I experienced..
> 
> As a hard worker , it's disturbing to walk by and see higher paid "family members" in an office environment playing video games on their computers all the while knowing there is no chance whatsoever of upward mobility in a company that has preferred treatment based on blood relations is a sure
> ...


thank you! We have been raised on a merit system that our founder started and supports still. While family is a good source of employees with a vested innterest in growth and company stability none of the younger generations have been solely steered into the business if they did not have the desire to be productive here. Having employees see unfair treatment in the compensation areas would be very disheartening. Building comppany loyalty is one of our misson statement goals.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MCasey said:


> thank you! We have been raised on a merit system that our founder started and supports still. While family is a good source of employees with a vested innterest in growth and company stability none of the younger generations have been solely steered into the business if they did not have the desire to be productive here. Having employees see unfair treatment in the compensation areas would be very disheartening. Building comppany loyalty is one of our misson statement goals.


Sounds like you guys are a good company , ducks are in a row...best of luck.


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## MCasey (Dec 7, 2016)

lighterup said:


> Sounds like you guys are a good company , ducks are in a row...best of luck.


Thanks, we have been arund a long while and plan on staying in the game for generations to come.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I clicked on this post due to the title of it and was fully prepared to consider the switch for a while. 















What a letdown


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

nvmd disregard my last


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## c-note (Jun 30, 2017)

As long as the man is paying you properly for the work you do, it is none of your business how many office people he has, who they're related to, or how much he pays them. The local union negotiates your wages. He can pay you more if he decides to, or he can offer you a foreman or management position, but he is not under any obligation to pay you more than your negotiated wages.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

c-note said:


> As long as the man is paying you properly for the work you do, it is none of your business how many office people he has, who they're related to, or how much he pays them. The local union negotiates your wages. He can pay you more if he decides to, or he can offer you a foreman or management position, *but he is not under any obligation to pay you more than your negotiated wages.*


Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine?


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