# Low Voltage Wired houses!



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Just because you're inexperienced in troubleshooting a particular wiring method or a type of equipment does not mean it's not a viable method.

Wait until you have to t'shoot your first VFD or PLC.

As for all the junk in the way, is that the LV wire's fault? You could easily have the exact same problems with line voltage wiriing.


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## PDX-SPARKY (Mar 5, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Just because you're inexperienced in troubleshooting a particular wiring method or a type of equipment does not mean it's not a viable method.
> 
> Wait until you have to t'shoot your first VFD or PLC.
> 
> As for all the junk in the way, is that the LV wire's fault? You could easily have the exact same problems with line voltage wiriing.


I never said it wasnt Viable, and yes inexperience may have a bit to do with it....:whistling2: 

Now bring on the VFD and PLC's.... :thumbup:


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

are you talking about the old lighting panels with all the relays they used to have? i seen a few houses like that. its not that bad to troubleshoot


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

I have one client with a Strand system. Luckily for me the original workmanship was first rate, all the relay panels are in one place and the plans are right there. But I have seen some relay panels that where a disaster.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> I never said it wasnt Viable, and yes inexperience may have a bit to do with it....


I'll say it. It's the most stupid thing I've ever seen. It's worse than aluminum wiring and it's worse than knob & tube. Hell, it's worse than aluminum knob & tube :jester:

A perfectly good, solid residential wiring system has been developed thru the years and some clowns come along and "improve" it by adding a complete secondary system to turn the damn lights on. It sucked in the 60's and it still sucks today.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The low-voltage switching is a sweet system for office and commercial buildings where they're constantly moving walls around for new tenants. I can honestly say that I love working on low-voltage switching systems. My one supply house gives out my name to people when they call looking for parts or advice to an old GE or Lutron low voltage switching systems. Every one I've ever worked on has turned into a permanent customer. Customers with low voltage switching invariably have a switch or a light that hasn't worked in years. When you get them patched up, they think you're a freaking magician. The relay panels look intimidating, but they're not really that bad. If documentation does not exist as to what relay does what (or what switches are connected to a certain relay), you're well served by spending a couple hours making a relay schedule for the next go 'round.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> T GE or Lutron low voltage switching systems.


You got a picture of one of those relay panels or a GE selectamatic switch?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nolabama said:


> You got a picture of one of those relay panels or a GE selectamatic switch?


No, but there's been quite a few posted here lately.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

60's style. :jester:





















Late model installatuions are just as bad. Twice the wiring, twice the potential for failure, twice the troubleshooting.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

What is control voltage in these systems? DC or AC? What voltage? Never had a chance to see one.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Twice the wiring, twice the potential for failure, twice the troubleshooting.


Sounds great, twice the money made fixing it.

Besides as bad as it looks the system is simple.


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## Mastertorturer (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm laughing my ass off at this. :laughing:

WTF is so difficult about... and may I correct.. 0-30 V is Extra Low Voltage... relay lighting?

Small voltage through a coil induces a magnetic field to push a plunger that closes a contact. 

You learn this the first year in college guys! 

As for the OP. It's not strange at all for a Master Relay to energize Slave Relays. Infact it's quite common for the very reason you mentioned. The lighting circuits are in three other panels. 

If you didn't use 2 or more slaves you'd have to 

#1. Buy a much larger contactor that would be able to handle the load from the other panel lighting ccts.
#2. Run your power from the second and third panel all the way back to the contactor. (Which is a waste of money compared to the price of ELV cable)

As for trouble shooting? It's pretty basic if you're using a latching relay. The only time it gets even remotely more difficult is if you're using occupancy sensors. You'd have to read the manual or instructions which are often stuck in the contactor panel.. OMG.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

I want to work on one of these ancient systems. It seems like an arcane art of some kind.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

220/221 said:


> 60's style.
> 
> Late model installatuions are just as bad.


What's the deal with all those 50VA transformers in the upper tub? Dedicated xfmrs for each lighting relay seems like overkill.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

220/221 said:


> 60's style. :jester:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 These were extreme miserable systems , I ended up using momentary contact 3 position spec grade switches as replacements since I could not locate OEM replacement switches. trying to utilize decora switches on others I found myself changing out the relays to amprobe closet relays.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

I have only worked in one home so far that had low voltage. I was able to diag the problem they were having and thankfully the control panel was accessible. This home had a main panel with 2 sub panels and two low voltage panels. The second low voltage panel i never found but i could hear it clicking above a finished ceiling in the 1st floor.


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