# Replacing wet niche fixture in a full pool



## bobbyho (Oct 15, 2007)

This is a stupid question but is it possible to change a inground pool light fixture while there is water in the pool? Replacing a lamp is one thing but I would assume that changing the fixture may be something else entirely. Wouldn't the water run straight into the conduit that goes to the junction box? I have never installed one but I would assume at the back of the wet niche fixture there is some kind of potting to keep water from filling up the conduit to the junction box.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The water won't run up the pipe.. water stays the same level that is in the pool no matter what.. that is how water levels work.

Are you trying to change just the lamp or the entire socket?

The lamp is designed to have water around it.

Changing the lamp socket is a whole other can of worms and I wouldn't go there :no:


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## bobbyho (Oct 15, 2007)

The whole thing needs to be replaced, I believe. The homeowner told me the pool company has come down and replaced the lamp a few times and as soon as they are out of the driveway,bam, it goes out again. I found the gfci breaker tripped to it. When I disconnected at the junction box and powered up the circuit all was fine. Could be the lamp popped and shorted but after a few times I would assume that the socket itself is compromised. If it is not a good idea to change the fixture till the summer is over and the pool is drained, I understand. I just don't want to go in blind to this having never done one at all, with the water out.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Speaking from experience as someone who has changed these fixtures in full pools, you will have to do the following:

1) Put on your swim trunks
2) Get into the pool, and using the appropriate screwdriver, remove the mounting screw(s) holding the fixture in the niche.
3) There should be sufficient slack on the fixture cord to bring it to the surface, and place it on the deck, for servicing.
4) If you want to replace the whole fixture, you will have to open the junction box, disconnect all the wires, and pull them out of the conduit through the opening in the niche.
5) I would recommend tying a string on the junction box end of the wire before doing step #4, to facilitate the re-installation of the new fixture cord through the conduit in the back of the niche.

This procedure is best done in hot weather. I have done it in both hot and not-so-hot weather, and its a pain during the off season. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

bobbyho said:


> The whole thing needs to be replaced, I believe. The homeowner told me the pool company has come down and replaced the lamp a few times and as soon as they are out of the driveway,bam, it goes out again. I found the gfci breaker tripped to it. When I disconnected at the junction box and powered up the circuit all was fine. Could be the lamp popped and shorted but after a few times I would assume that the socket itself is compromised. If it is not a good idea to change the fixture till the summer is over and the pool is drained, I understand. I just don't want to go in blind to this having never done one at all, with the water out.


Have you tried changing the GFI??

Multiple lamp failures has nothing to do with the socket unless is has sharp metal cutting the wire someplace, which I doubt very much.

Changing the lamp socket is really a job for the pool company.

You have to work with the liner and any mistakes will cost you many thousands to fix


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## bobbyho (Oct 15, 2007)

Good point, I originally told her the pool company should do this but they said to her that she needs an electrician to do the job. Lot of finger pointing. I didn't think about a liner issue. Guess I will be doing some pointing now.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

tie a string on the end of the cord in the light fixtures jbox before you loosen it up.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Electricians replace the fixture and associated conductors.
A pool company would replace the back box that supports the fixture.
Get you megger and megger the conductors in the fixture to ground and the feed from the panel to the J-box line to neutral and neutral to ground, hot to ground.

And then you can wrap this one up.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

brian john said:


> Electricians replace the fixture and associated conductors.
> A pool company would replace the back box that supports the fixture.


Here the pool companies change the lamps, IMO it is better to let them take the liability and headaches.

You never know if the guy who installed the last lamp stripped any screws or even put all the screws back in.

Not enough profit for me to be hanging over the side of a pool trying to change a lamp. :no:


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

You can buy the whole housing, cord, already lamped for fairly cheap. The longer the cord the more it cost. Most can get by with the 15 or 30 foot cord. You can get up to 100 foot cords. What happens is the chemicals break down the insulation on the cords eventually. The cord is always sumerged in the water thats why the fixture comes complete with cord. The housing socket is set in epoxy resin. Get a Amerilite 400 watt for about $150. Or a lamp for $30 a gasket for $26 the labor to change a reseal. Then you find out the housing and cord are the problem. So make sure you test the green to black, Black to white, white to green for any leakage or that GFI will keep tripping even with new lamp/gasket. This can all be done in a full water level pool. But don't try to hang over the side and do it. Jump in and it will be so much easier.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Out here we change lamps all the time, with no problems what so ever. The important thing to remember is everytime you open a poollight, REPLACE THE GASKET!


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> Speaking from experience as someone who has changed these fixtures in full pools, you will have to do the following:
> 
> 1) Put on your swim trunks
> 2) Get into the pool, and using the appropriate screwdriver, remove the mounting screw(s) holding the fixture in the niche.
> ...


I second the motion! The deck box is above the pool level, and there is pool water inside the conduit - all the time while the pool is full.

The cord insulation has probably broken down enough to cause an issue - especially if its been installed for more than 10 years. I just replaced my neighbor's 17 year old lights and his installation had a #8 equipotential bond conductor in the conduit as well. I practically popped a vein in my head trying to pull just the cord out of the conduit. I finally realized that it was probably stuck to the insulation of the #8 grounding wire (which was still attached to the deck box). I disconnected that and pulled the entire cord and conductor out of the conduit. It was stuck alright...:yes:. Replaced with a new corded fixture and reused the #8. All is good....and I had a nice swim to boot!


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

LJSMITH1 said:


> .and I had a nice swim to boot!


Not commando style I hope. :jester:


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Not commando style I hope. :jester:


 
...not that there's anything wrong with that!:jester:...I did get a nice suntan in areas that don't usually see sun...LOL!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I do an awful lot of service work that I really have no business doing, but working on pool lights is one of the few things I don't do. Just too much of a pain for my temperament. If the pool company removes it, I'll wire up the new one and lay it on the deck and let the pool company put it back in. That's maybe one fixture in the last 5 years. Call the right pool company, and they'll just take care of the whole shebang.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Skipp said:


> You can buy the whole housing, cord, already lamped for fairly cheap. The longer the cord the more it cost. Most can get by with the 15 or 30 foot cord. You can get up to 100 foot cords. What happens is the chemicals break down the insulation on the cords eventually. The cord is always sumerged in the water thats why the fixture comes complete with cord. The housing socket is set in epoxy resin. .


 
That's my method. If the old fixture is not leaking, it will likely be leaking after you open it to screw in a new lamp. Buy a new one and be done.

The new fixture will want to float and you might have to struggle to get it in place.

Be sure and leave enough cable coiled in the niche for the next guy.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

220/221 said:


> That's my method. If the old fixture is not leaking, it will likely be leaking after you open it to screw in a new lamp. Buy a new one and be done.
> 
> The new fixture will want to float and you might have to struggle to get it in place.
> 
> Be sure and leave enough cable coiled in the niche for the next guy.


Unless the fixture is OLD, a new gasket will usually suffice.
And always leave enough cord slack so that you can pull the light above the surface of the water, onto the deck.


Oh and as far as in-deck boxes go, we dont even touch those. If it's in a deck box, we only touch it if we can re-do it with a modern,lexan covered pool light j-box. too much liablity not to.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Unless the fixture is OLD, a new gasket will* usually* suffice.


Usually doesn't cut it in service work like this. I'm not going back for free to do it again :no:. 

If it's my pool, I'd probably just replace the lamp. A real customer gets a new fixture.


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Usually doesn't cut it in service work like this. I'm not going back for free to do it again :no:.
> 
> If it's my pool, I'd probably just replace the lamp. A real customer gets a new fixture.


 
I agree. If the fixture is only a couple of years old, and just has a burned out bulb - replace the bulb.

However, for my money, if the fixture is 8-10 years old, the cord is going to eventually fail sooner than later. I would also replace the entire fixture..:thumbsup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

You guys that live in pool-land.... how much are these underwater lights, generally? I've never replaced one.


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## LJSMITH1 (May 4, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> You guys that live in pool-land.... how much are these underwater lights, generally? I've never replaced one.


Amerlite is the brand I have replaced before...50' cord about $175 (wet niche is not included - and usually you don't replace that).


http://www.amerimerc.com/inground-pool-light-standard~amerlight.htm

I also had a broken retaining screw in the niche, so I had to use this since I didn't have an ROV with an underwater drill&tap...

http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/QuickNicheRepairKitOM.pdf


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

MD.,

The last pool luminaire unit I did replace it cost little over 220€ but the bulb itself that run 48€ that is on 12 volts { we do not allow 240 volts bulbs in pool system but can use 120 volts bulbs if the situation called for }

Merci,Marc


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