# Main Breaker for SqD QO-16M panel needed



## Connx (Apr 18, 2019)

An ideas where to get this obsolete 100 amp breaker?
New or used


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

At the breaker store.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Connx said:


> An ideas where to get this obsolete 100 amp breaker?
> New or used


A qo2100 with a breaker tie down. Or quit being a cheap assed slumlord and have an electrician replace the panel.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

This one??


QOM100VH


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## Connx (Apr 18, 2019)

Thanks, but no.
It's the really old type that goes all the way across both sides of the panel. The handle appears through the front cover only on one side, above the distribution breakers on the same side.
Service wires connect only on the side like distribution breakers.


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## Connx (Apr 18, 2019)

HackWork said:


> At the breaker store.


What store carries these obsolete breakers?


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## Connx (Apr 18, 2019)

sbrn33 said:


> A qo2100 with a breaker tie down. Or quit being a cheap assed slumlord and have an electrician replace the panel.


Thought of QO2100. Will try but don't think it will pass inspection.


What 'cheap assed slumlord'? I'm the Electrician (aren't we all here?) trying to avoid a huge bill for two retired women living on fixed income. If I find the breaker the job is safe and no waste of working equipment.

Disrespectful comment.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I agree, sbrn33 is so rude.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

That's what your profile or lack thereof says. :shifty:


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I agree, sbrn33 is so rude.


Did he call him a crack head? Wait...some people that's the same thing.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

QO2100. you may be able to cobble together a hold down for it. That breaker was way more than a new panel if it is even available any more.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Google "Square D type Q1". There seems to be plenty available.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Connx said:


> Thanks, but no.
> It's the really old type that goes all the way across both sides of the panel. The handle appears through the front cover only on one side, above the distribution breakers on the same side.
> Service wires connect only on the side like distribution breakers.


I have a milk crate full of those.
They take up both sides of the bus.


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## Connx (Apr 18, 2019)

joe-nwt said:


> Google "Square D type Q1". There seems to be plenty available.


Thanks
Couldn't get the breaker out to find the model #

Type Q1 Q frame Square D Circuit Breakers Categories
Southland Electrical Supply


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## Connx (Apr 18, 2019)

Southeast Power said:


> I have a milk crate full of those.
> They take up both sides of the bus.


Where are you located?


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## Connx (Apr 18, 2019)

Connx said:


> Where are you located?


Sorry, I see it's Florida.
Can you ship to Canada?
Cost?
New? Used?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Connx said:


> Sorry, I see it's Florida.
> Can you ship to Canada?
> Cost?
> New? Used?


Ill post a pic tomorrow.
Make sure its what you need.
if it looks good. 4 rolls of 2-ply Tp will seal the deal.:biggrin:


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Hydro will want a permit I have a couple used ones that i try and keep for emergency repair until i can do a panel swap


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Connx said:


> Thanks, but no.
> It's the really old type that goes all the way across both sides of the panel. The handle appears through the front cover only on one side, above the distribution breakers on the same side.
> Service wires connect only on the side like distribution breakers.


That sounds like the QO breakers that used 4 spaces. At some point, Square D was unable to make a 100 amp breaker that worked in two spaces, so they made them span 4. I bet this breaker can be replaced by a regular QO.


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

From time to time we replace breaker panels. I save the mains if in good condition. They came in three forms. Both lugs on one end, one on each end conductor vertical, one on each end conductor horizontal. I have at least one of each style on hand.

In most cases these panels are 11-1/2" wide. They won't easily accept AFCI breakers.


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

CoolWill said:


> That sounds like the QO breakers that used 4 spaces. At some point, Square D was unable to make a 100 amp breaker that worked in two spaces, so they made them span 4. I bet this breaker can be replaced by a regular QO.


I think the two space breakers are more prone to buss to breaker failure. They require a hold down. 

Probably substituting a different breaker voids UL or other listing.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Willie B said:


> I think the two space breakers are more prone to buss to breaker failure. They require a hold down.


Breaker hold-downs are usually dinky little pieces of plastic that will still allow you to move the breaker quite a bit. They are not required to mitigate breaker-buss connection failures.

They are only required when backfeeding a breaker to stop someone from pulling the breaker off the bus, which would leave the connection point energized. There is an exception to this rule when backfeeding a breaker for solar, since it will shutdown on it's own when removed from the bus.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Willie B said:


> I think the two space breakers are more prone to buss to breaker failure. They require a hold down.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably substituting a different breaker voids UL or other listing.


OP is in canada. So it would be CSA or ULc listing that is voided.

Also, IIRC, at least in Ontario, we do not require a hold down kit.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

HackWork said:


> Breaker hold-downs are usually dinky little pieces of plastic that will still allow you to move the breaker quite a bit. They are not required to mitigate breaker-buss connection failures.
> 
> They are only required when backfeeding a breaker to stop someone from pulling the breaker off the bus, which would leave the connection point energized. There is an exception to this rule when backfeeding a breaker for solar, since it will shutdown on it's own when removed from the bus.


I should have separated into two paragraphs. Breaker to buss failure isn't related to the hold down. More a reminder to not pull it off the buss. I've seen a few failures in the two place breakers as a main. Despite my father using them even for 200 amp services in hundreds of electric heat houses in the 60s & 70s, I haven't seen many failures in the four place. In the day they weren't using dielectric grease on the jaws. The old ones did have a pretty reliable track record.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> I have a milk crate full of those.
> They take up both sides of the bus.


Have they been properly tested? If I have learned one thing on this site it is that you can never put a used breaker back into service. You are taking a huge chance. Think about the kids man.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

sbrn33 said:


> Have they been properly tested? If I have learned one thing on this site it is that you can never put a used breaker back into service. You are taking a huge chance. Think about the kids man.


I'm sure he's got a 200 amp service he can test them with :vs_laugh:

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

You need a Main breaker to be tested by a certified outfit. 

You should be able to ask your AHJ as to which firms are acceptable.

No ordinary LEC can expect to stand muster.

You might find that converting to MLO and setting a knife-switch disconnect up the line is the way forward. 

You might find that C-H retro-guts are the way forward.

I can't see your set up from my house. The decision usually turns on many factors.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

the QO 2 pole 100 will not line up with the hole it sits almost to the one side off centre for the main breaker opening I should add that our QO panels have always had a separate compartment for the main breaker and service conductors iirc also this 16 circuit panel has tandem breaker rejectors so cant add much to the panel , double check the buss for arcing


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## Willie B (Jan 31, 2020)

Many years ago I got a call on Friday night. A plumber in his home had suffered a main breaker, (service disconnect), failure. 
The installation was horrific. NM cables entered through knock outs without removing the knock out, no connector. More cables entered through the open face, no cover.

I explained this was among the worst I had seen. It needed a new panel. Manufacturer didn't offer a replacement, they did offer a new breaker with adapter terminals. 

I went back to the owner, I could replace the panel, clear up numerous other hazards. He declined, all he wanted was a new breaker. Meanwhile he lived without electric heat in his garage using a 60 amp as a makeshift main.

I got the substitute parts, and installed them.

He reported me to the State Inspector, claimed the mess in the panel was my work. 

I received a written reprimand from the State, and, no, I never got paid.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Have they been properly tested? If I have learned one thing on this site it is that you can never put a used breaker back into service. You are taking a huge chance. Think about the kids man.


Yes.
The test was how many I could fit in a milk crate.
The answer to the test is 28.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> Yes.
> The test was how many I could fit in a milk crate.
> The answer to the test is 28.



i had a couple of these panels in the used pile I kept the covers and threw out the panels then i get a call from an ec asking if i had the guts for one i am assuming burnt buss


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## Uncle_Al (Nov 17, 2014)

Did you get a replacement? I had to replace one awhile back now.... I had my supply guys contact shnieder and confirm you can use a QO2100 for replacment. Do you have a picture to confirm though??


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

the service section dead front will not line up the breaker opening using a standard 2 pole 100 amp QO breaker


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