# A new wage and benefit package proposal.



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

sounds like it's time for you to go work for an open shop...


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> I think this one may have a shot, the market and bonds have lost so much that retirements have gone backwards a few years
> 
> Here's what I propose:
> 
> ...


 

Right after my apprenticeship I WAS an signatory contractor, tore the agreement up all the above sounds like what I told my ba ,Now I am open shop myselfe and my guys put the money (includeing hospitalization they insist I pay when my wife already has it and pays) IN MY POCKET. No one has controll of my pension but me, I DONT NEED SOMONE to tell me what to do with my retirement and take my money so I dont drink it and piss it away on payday then give me a limited amount each month if I live to see retirement.

JUST REMBER all the IO cares about is dues assesments and percapita and watch the crook handling the money

IF I could pay dues only and be a member and a contractor and work with my tools too I probably would join.

Sounds like MILLER-ELEX :thumbsup: you are right on target.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Sounds like other than oldman there has been some heavy toking going on already.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

I partially agree. I would much rather pay the whole shot to the employee, and let each of them do what they want with the money, whether its buy a retirement plan or a health care plan or booze and whores. As a contractor it would be much simpler accounting wise. My wife is filling out the board 63's right now. I can think of better things to be doing at 10:15 at night.:thumbsup:


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

board 63's?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> I
> 
> What do y'all think?


tell me which local you are in so I don't make the mistake of hitting that one if I move out there to be with my sis and little bro.

our system isn't perfect but I have seen very few guys do better on their own.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

As for the open shop comment,

been there, and its no comparison to what the union offers here. Market share is very high, and the hourly wage alone is $5 higher, not to mention how much those poor 'merit' guys pay for a health package out of their own pocket. Its at least $120 a week for a healthy family of four on the non-union side.

When it comes to the PW work, the non-union shop hands take home the base wage plus fringe. That's about $50 an hour that they see on the check. This is supposed to be fair? 

Any other comments about avoiding this local if such a change were to happen... You're Book 2 anyways, I'm sure there are plenty of guys on Book 3 and 4 who would gladly take the call, and yes they do get work here.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> As for the open shop comment,
> 
> been there, and its no comparison to what the union offers here. Market share is very high, and the hourly wage alone is $5 higher, not to mention how much those poor 'merit' guys pay for a health package out of their own pocket. Its at least $120 a week for a healthy family of four on the non-union side.
> 
> ...


 
If I would move permanent, book 1 is in the future.

book 3 and 4 call outs? 

You do realize that book 2 goes out before book 3 and 4, don't you? I would get a call before a book 3 or 4.

seems 932 says not getting into book 2 as of 12/1

659 says work is slow for travellers as of 10/2 29 on book 1 and 8 on book 2. Must be a very small local.

280 says 160 on book 1 and calls are slow 12/9

48 80 on book 1 with 85 on book 2 available for work as of 12/9 they sent out 87 (JIW) in November. 

and Oregons licensing requirements are very similar to Michigans so book 3 and 4 call outs? You a funny guy.

book 3 and 4 would have to work under an apprentice card because if they had their license, they would be able to be book 1.

from your comment on PW work, I would have to say you are in LU 48. Now I do see that they did send out a book 2 guy on the last call out and you have 5 calls for tomorrow. With 80 on book 1 and 85 on book 2, you aren't getting to 3 or 4 unless they are really bad jobs.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

There are Book 2 guys who have been living and working here for over twenty years.

They are still Book 2.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

> miller_elex said:
> 
> 
> > There are Book 2 guys who have been living and working here for over twenty years.
> ...


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> When it comes to the PW work, the non-union shop hands take home the base wage plus fringe. That's about $50 an hour that they see on the check. This is supposed to be fair?


Not if you work for one of my old contractors that I worked for. He paid all of us regular wages and didn't even tell us the job was PW. Somewhere near the middle of the job, the union came poking around and started raising some questions. My old boss got his hands caught in the cookie jar.

Hmm. I should make a thread about that.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

*PW Fringe*



spoon said:


> He paid all of us regular wages and didn't even tell us the job was PW.


Right now we are subbing for a non-union mechanical contractor who does primarily PW jobs. Personally, I like the hands and work well with them. Its best never to bring up the U word first, because it is the elephant in the room. This always works best, because it disarms the situation once they know most people are only in the union for the better pay. This point doesn't hold water, because these hands are paid more than we make (because nothing gets subtracted out,) and typically work year round. 


And, to NAP, why is book 1 so important to you? Do you have plans of working for alot of different contractors? How many W-2's did you get last year?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> And, to NAP, why is book 1 so important to you? Do you have plans of working for alot of different contractors? How many W-2's did you get last year?


because book 1 goes out before book 2.

last year; 1 w-2


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

What are the difference in books?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Not every local defines each book exactly the same but here is one locals interpretation:

Book 1: All Journeyman Wireman that have their "ticket" in their home Local, have passed the J.W. test and have worked for one year under a collective bargaining agreement

. 

Book 2: All Journeyman Wireman who have traveled from their home Local to another Local to secure work. Any Journeyman Wireman who has passed the J.W. test, but has not worked under a collective bargaining agreement for one year.


Book 3: Any member of a Local that is not a Journeyman Wireman, but is employed in the electrical field. An example of this would be an electronics technician.


Book 4: Usually limited to newly organized people who have not passed the J.W. test and have not worked under a collective bargaining agreement for one year.

Book 5: This is normally the "out of class" book. It would include anyone hired on a part time or short term basis that is not looking to join the Union. These people are usually hired when all the other books are clear and calls are going unfilled. 

Ours, in my local, are not exactly like that but generally pretty similar. Work referrals are filled starting with book one. If it cannot be filled by somebody on book 1, it rolls to book 2 and on and on down the line.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

spoon said:


> Not if you work for one of my old contractors that I worked for. He paid all of us regular wages and didn't even tell us the job was PW. Somewhere near the middle of the job, the union came poking around and started raising some questions. My old boss got his hands caught in the cookie jar.
> 
> Hmm. I should make a thread about that.


did you get your back wages?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> As for the open shop comment,
> 
> been there, and its no comparison to what the union offers here. Market share is very high, and the hourly wage alone is $5 higher, not to mention how much those poor 'merit' guys pay for a health package out of their own pocket. Its at least $120 a week for a healthy family of four on the non-union side.
> 
> ...


 
Ahhh, so that's what ruffling your feathers.


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> Right now we are subbing for a non-union mechanical contractor who does primarily PW jobs. Personally, I like the hands and work well with them. Its best never to bring up the U word first, because it is the elephant in the room. This always works best, because it disarms the situation once they know most people are only in the union for the better pay. This point doesn't hold water, because these hands are paid more than we make (because nothing gets subtracted out,) and typically work year round.
> 
> And, to NAP, why is book 1 so important to you? Do you have plans of working for alot of different contractors? How many W-2's did you get last year?


Glad to see you understand why I operate the way I DO , I can pay my guys better and they get all the money,BA 'S AND ORGANIZERS have no jurisdiction on federal property jou just call the mp's and have them removed:thumbsup:, 
As far as changeing the IBEW I dobut you will have any luck the IO will probably buck you first ,Then the local, gee wheres the sallaries for all the officals and secreteries comeing from .

AS to nap traveling it dont matter what book he sighns.:laughing:


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

If you could pay collective bargaining portion only and opt in or out of the rest membership would flourish.


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## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Miller_elex, my hat off to you sir! I would like to see a major shake up of the IBEW. I think you would have the 9th district reps and the IO up your ass about 2 minutes after being elected, if ya got that far. Changes need to be done though. Myself and my old-timer buddies all feel that the current state of affairs is just sickening to watch. I remember when the local and the IO wasn't in our pockets for every nickle and dime they can squeeze out of us. We had a business manager/FS and an assistant/dispatcher and one secretary once upon a time. Today there is the BM/FS and at least 3 assistants, 2 organizers, 1 dispatcher and they all have their own secretaries. The working dues used to be very little because there was a cap on how much could be put into the general fund. Now the dues percentage is up above 5% and there is no cap. (does this sound remotely like the government?)
Well, I'm just a grumpy old electrician that remembers when. I see things like my first journeymen saw things when I was an apprentice. They are all gone on to the great overtime job in the sky now, but I remember them saying things were going to hell in a hand basket. Good thing though, if they were to walk into the hall today and see all the assistants and secretaries they would have a heart attack.
Good luck Miller_elex if you run, I think you would have more support than you know, although, it would mostly be silent.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

nap said:


> did you get your back wages?


Suing him as we speak.


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