# Common panel/meter



## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

See NEC 210.25 (B)

The lighting you mention , any common are smoke alarms, outdoor lighting (if its a common yard etc.) would need to be separately metered.
Used to get away with "owner occupied" but not so much anymore.

Meter will need a bypass.


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Probably inquire with the power utility first.

Around here, nowadays, getting an extra meter to a resi building or property after-the-fact is next to impossible.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I will check with town and utility. 

This service needs a serious redesign. The outside is a tricky mess. Supposedly, the first 2 guys he called walked away. Panels will also need to move 15’. They are currently completely surrounded by plumbing and gas. 

While on another call today, semi-temping a service for new vinyl siding for an out of state company mentioned where they are from they don’t allow J channel around a service.










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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

I just did a service the other day on the inspector's day off :whistling2:
2 family with no main outside. Meter socket 3' away from gas meters. Overhead connections can be reached from a 6' ladder on the 2nd floor deck. 
Virtually impossible to be compliant for any reasonable amount of money there. It would have to have a stupid high mast or underground. 

Lady just wanted her rusty service replaced. I disclaimered myself out of code upgrades and permit fees and just put back the same 2 meter outside service she had with new stuff.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

JoeSparky said:


> I just did a service the other day on the inspector's day off :whistling2:
> 2 family with no main outside. Meter socket 3' away from gas meters. Overhead connections can be reached from a 6' ladder on the 2nd floor deck.
> Virtually impossible to be compliant for any reasonable amount of money there. It would have to have a stupid high mast or underground.
> 
> Lady just wanted her rusty service replaced. I disclaimered myself out of code upgrades and permit fees and just put back the same 2 meter outside service she had with new stuff.


Budgets often determine what's at all practical. :crying:


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

JoeSparky said:


> Virtually impossible to be compliant for any reasonable amount of money there. It would have to have a stupid high mast.


Oh, so a mast like this... i laugh every time I see it.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Does anyone see a problem with me keeping the current riser configuration? 

It looks horrible IMO, but I’m limited with options here. My only change would be to try to get more supports and face the weather head away from the window which will also redirect the drip loop away. 

Possibly move the POA to the backside corner of the house also. 


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Run a mast through the roof to get it away from the window? It might look silly that high but would probably be neater than doing something goofy around the window.

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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Oh, so a mast like this... i laugh every time I see it.


When I see jobs like that, I wonder what the contractor was thinking. I have a hard time to believe that the client would not pay for a UG service.

Perhaps the utility would not allow an UG service, but they usually don't allow a POA that high either.

There has to be more to the story for sure.

Cheers
John


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Did 6 new two family houses in NY. Two panels and two meters. Common area lighting and power split between the two. 

POCO will allow third meter but municipalities won’t because basement apartments are illegal. Not all but most. 


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

These masts are the norm around here. Its all about what you're used to seeing. Better its up high than have street traffic rip it down.

An underground hookup here means you need your own pole on your property (unsightly & $$$$) to accept the overhead drop, mount the meter, and then feed it underground to your house. :biggrin:



VELOCI3 said:


> POCO will allow third meter but municipalities won’t because basement apartments are illegal. Not all but most.


^ This. 

No municipality here, but its to dissuade illegal occupancies just the same.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

u2slow said:


> These masts are the norm around here. Its all about what you're used to seeing. Better its up high than have street traffic rip it down.
> 
> An underground hookup here means you need your own pole on your property (unsightly & $$$$) to accept the overhead drop, mount the meter, and then feed it underground to your house.


I agree it is better high, then low. Why would client need a pole on their yard? Just do a direct burial (directional bore) to the utility pole across the street and up their pole; that is where the secondary comes from anyway.

No need for a client pole on their property.

Cheers
John


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Navyguy said:


> I agree it is better high, then low. Why would client need a pole on their yard? Just do a direct burial (directional bore) to the utility pole across the street and up their pole; that is where the secondary comes from anyway.
> 
> No need for a client pole on their property.


PoCo rules... in this case BC Hydro. You may attach to the utility in the format they serve the area with. You want to do something different, you do it on your own property.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

There is something fishy about this job request. It may have to do with a future basement finish. 

Technically he can leave everything as is, he just wants to “bring it up to current code” for no reason at all?! Lol. 

However he is very persistent in hiring me and knows it’s $$$$$, especially with relocation of panels and probably close to 50 AFCI breakers. 

I have no issue in keeping that same rigid mast and just turning it, adding supports, and have poco relocate POA. It wouldn’t be my initial design but this is a congested city side street, utility lines are cutting through trees from the street behind the house. Driveways are tight and funny, I have limited practical options. 

Given the situation I may ask for a decent deposit to get city documents approved and possibly a POCO design engineer visit. 


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

WronGun said:


> There is something fishy about this job request. It may have to do with a future basement finish.


:vs_blush::vs_smile:


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Any suggestions on how to do the riser over ? 

I’m using the Siemens unipak. Has anyone had an issue with setting risers recessed like this ? 























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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

WronGun said:


> Any suggestions on how to do the riser over ?
> 
> I’m using the Siemens unipak. Has anyone had an issue with setting risers recessed like this ?
> 
> ...


Can I ask how much did this piece of equipment cost? I just did a two gang meter system and used separate components and built the system. The price for the two gang equipment was over $1,500.00. The price for Trough, meters, disconnects was $500.00 and three extra hours labor.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Wrongun, nevermind. We need to use ringless and lever bypass equipment. Much more expensive.
When I was an electrical inspector I had a inspection where the contractor installed a 9 gang system. I was a nice clean install but he bought his equipment from HD on line and it did not conform to local codes. Not ringless and no lever bypass.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Oh, so a mast like this... i laugh every time I see it.


This is very common in Southern California. Pretty much any neighborhood older than 1970 has something similar.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

MotoGP1199 said:


> This is very common in Southern California. Pretty much any neighborhood older than 1970 has something similar.


This is most definitely not common to see here. This is the first house in the city I've seen with a POA higher than the secondaries on a hydro pole.

I've seen a few in the country where its a long run of triplex so it's above the minimum height after sagging, but in the city it's just weird...


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> This is most definitely not common to see here. This is the first house in the city I've seen with a POA higher than the secondaries on a hydro pole.
> 
> I've seen a few in the country where its a long run of triplex so it's above the minimum height after sagging, but in the city it's just weird...


Most are definitely not higher than the secondaries but our POCO poles are a taller than the ones pictured. Depending on the building I do see some coming through the roof on 2 story buildings. On taller buildings they try to attach to the side if possible. The local POCO's pretty much demand on anything newer that is fed overhead that it must be at a location closest to the pole and does not go over the building. So they do sometimes have to go through the roof.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

kb1jb1 said:


> Wrongun, nevermind. We need to use ringless and lever bypass equipment. Much more expensive.
> When I was an electrical inspector I had a inspection where the contractor installed a 9 gang system. I was a nice clean install but he bought his equipment from HD on line and it did not conform to local codes. Not ringless and no lever bypass.



This is $500 

It is ringless style with horn bypass. I will check with utility if they want a lever.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Signal1 said:


> See NEC 210.25 (B)
> 
> The lighting you mention , any common are smoke alarms, outdoor lighting (if its a common yard etc.) would need to be separately metered.
> Used to get away with "owner occupied" but not so much anymore.
> ...



NEC 210.25(B)










This is dependent upon interpretation by the AHJ. This could mean separate meter or panel. It could also be waived. 


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Just a thought. Does 210.25 apply to a house that is divided into two or does it only apply to a legally defined two family dwelling? A house that is truly divided needs fire walls and all the other necessary separations otherwise it is just a single family house with two panels. The panels / service disconnects have to be grouped together and not one upstairs and one downstairs. Many people take a high ranch and divide it into illegal apartments. This is not a two family dwelling.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

VELOCI3 said:


> NEC 210.25(B)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I’m installing a common meter and panel on this job and rewiring all common circuits. It’s required if there are common areas. 

The utility book is confusing as far as bypassing goes. It reads as if they only consider levers as bypasses. 

It’s required in commercial and residential only if a common meter is present. 

$1300 meter socket w/Lever

I’m still going to ask if Horn is acceptable. 


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

WronGun said:


> I’m installing a common meter and panel on this job and rewiring all common circuits. It’s required if there are common areas.
> 
> The utility book is confusing as far as bypassing goes. It reads as if they only consider levers as bypasses.
> 
> ...



A lever bypass is for locking jaw pans. In order to bypass and remove the meter you must remove the cover. Then swing the bypass handle to release the meter. 

There are two ways power passes through the meter socket. 

-with the cover off and bypass handle in the up position 

-meter installed with the handle down. 

Handle down locks the meter in. The bypass also allows meter changes without service interruption. 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Because I really don’t want to touch the riser I went with the Siemens Power Mod Assemblies. 
Lever bypass on the common. 










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