# Motor Control Help



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Don't they give you the motor control book anymore?
Try Googling, "motor control diagrams", anything with a [PDF] is usually helpful.


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

Yeah they do, it's kinda a turd though. I'll see if I can find any PDF's, thanks for the suggestion. 



We are the first class to guinea pig the new online homework so it doesn't really help much either which sucks.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Try downloading this book by Schneider/Square D. It may help.

https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/download/document/0140CT9201/


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I stumbled across this guy on YouTube, I thought his videos were very good: 

Pete Vree

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWkyWCcJT9N4ihmtVC7kS5Q


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

There is an Allen Bradley book floating around which is very old, free (a first for AB I think), and has around 40-50 starter diagrams in it. Everything else is just a slight variation like adding additional interlocks, stops and E-Stops, and so on. On the "controls" end of things you really just have the choice of 2 wire or 3 wire controls. Everything else (JOA, HOA, job, run, run/stop, start/stop, with or without interlocks, timers, E-Stops, alternating relays, etc.) Is just a variation of those two. On the actual motor control side you have your basic contactor and then various combinations of and contacts and voltage/timer relays to do wye-delta (3 variants), two speed, capacitor start/run or variants like a centrifugal switch, timer, part winding, etc. Eventually you work your way up to synchronous (both brushed and brushless excitation) and wound rotor starters but by that time you'd be best off using the book and not drawing it by hand.

Did I mention DCs, electronically commutated, PMDCs, steppers, or reluctance motors? Course by this point you draw a big rectangle that says "controller" and show wiring and that's it.

For extra credit of course you can draw the IEC/IEEE symbols instead of JIC/NFPA and then show why IEC/IEEE symbols are stupid and ambiguous and should go back to Germany and never come out in public again. This is not just an imperial vs. metric argument.


Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Start with the 3 wire*

Start with understanding a three wire motor control circuit. All other circuits are just an extension of it or a shorter version. 

Get a stop button, start button, 24vdc power supply and plug in relay from automation direct, under $50. Go to town.


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

Wow thanks guys! I appreciate all the info, this is making me feel much better about it. Time to dive in an wrap my head around it.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Fill in your about me section, so we know more about you. Where are you from, I might be able to just send you some stuff to help you.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

paulengr said:


> There is an Allen Bradley book floating around which is very old, free (a first for AB I think), and has around 40-50 starter diagrams in it.


You mean this one?

http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/wd/gi-wd005_-en-p.pdf


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> Fill in your about me section, so we know more about you. Where are you from, I might be able to just send you some stuff to help you.



Got it done, thank you for taking the time to give me some help. I appreciate it everyone!


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

Surprised nobody has mentioned this, largely considered to be the #1 resource on motor controls. It's called "Electricians Guide to AC Motor Controls Book" by Richard Cox, currently on it's 2nd edition. While other suggestions are all valid sources of information, this is the comprehensive package. Available from the publisher https://www.coxco.net.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

muffintop said:


> Got it done, thank you for taking the time to give me some help. I appreciate it everyone!


Just remember that as you draw your control wiring diagrams, place the fuse in the proper location. If you get it wrong, you run the risk of starting a motor if there is a fault.


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

Wirenuting said:


> Just remember that as you draw your control wiring diagrams, place the fuse in the proper location. If you get it wrong, you run the risk of starting a motor if there is a fault.



Would that be like have overloads on a motor starter or is a fused disconnect used as well?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

muffintop said:


> Would that be like have overloads on a motor starter or is a fused disconnect used as well?


No,
The control fuse is to protect the control circuit. 

Overloads are for motor overload protection
Disconnect Fuses or circuit breakers are for motor short circuit protection. 

Like salt & pepper they work together.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*I can send you stuff free*



muffintop said:


> Got it done, thank you for taking the time to give me some help. I appreciate it everyone!


If you are interested I can send you some stuff free if you will use it. PM me if interested, you may need some more posts before you can PM.


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> If you are interested I can send you some stuff free if you will use it. PM me if interested, you may need some more posts before you can PM.



Yeah I'd be interested, when I go on your profile it says "leave visitor message or send message via Email"


Maybe I'm still too new to the board or something. I tried getting my post count up to 10 and still nothing. :vs_worry:


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

H


Rora said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned this, largely considered to be the #1 resource on motor controls. It's called "Electricians Guide to AC Motor Controls Book" by Richard Cox, currently on it's 2nd edition. While other suggestions are all valid sources of information, this is the comprehensive package. Available from the publisher https://www.coxco.net.


I could not agree more with you. This is by far the best book I’ve ever seen on the subject, especially the troubleshooting section.


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

Rora said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned this, largely considered to be the #1 resource on motor controls. It's called "Electricians Guide to AC Motor Controls Book" by Richard Cox, currently on it's 2nd edition. While other suggestions are all valid sources of information, this is the comprehensive package.



A cool $31 off Amazon, that isn't too bad. Thanks for the suggestion, I will likely be buying that in the future.


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

https://imgur.com/a/dFgsmYz


These are the diagrams that I have to draw up, does this seem kinda difficult to anyone else? I'm having trouble even trying to figure out how to put this stuff in order and wire it all up.


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

remember that overload relays if wired wrong doesn't cut power to motor even if overload is tripped, ive seen a lot of hack install that didn't use the overload contact to stop the contactor


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## muffintop (May 18, 2018)

Does this look like it could work for problem #1? Single pole toggle switch, stop/ start push buttons, motor (coil), light to identify that the motor is energized and an overload? I'm just trying to piece it together with basically no classroom teaching. Can anyone offer any advice if it's wrong?


(sorry if the picture is huge)


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