# Cat5 Termination question?



## Muddrummer14 (Oct 31, 2011)

Hey LV Guys!

I am a 4th year electrical apprentice and have been given the responsibility of terminating all the cat 5 for our data in the assisted living facility that is currently under construction. 
I have terminated cat5 before and have used specialized low volt tools. I believe one of the tools was called a dolphin... i think... maybe.
My foreman has instructed me to terminate the connections by stripping the jacket back, untwisting all 4 of the pairs (whtorg,org,whtgrn,grn,whtbrn,brn, and whtblu,blu) prepping them to terminate in the "B" order.
Heres my red flag though... after setting these conductors in the correct order in the jack i am supposed to put the white cover on and with a pair of channellocks tighten the plastic cover down on the jack.
I am worried that this method may comprimise the integrity of the jack... again we are not using any low volt tools and i wanted to know if i could somehow test my connection. 
On one hand i do not want to overthink this relatively simple application, but i am to do over 300 rooms and want to make sure i am doing this right!

What do you guys think? any quick way to perform a continuity test on an already terminated jack?

Thanks again.
-Mudd


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

So they are having you do over 300 rooms, and you are unsure of yourself??
Do they know this, or did they assume you know exactly what you are doing?

I am NOT questioning your abilities, I AM questioning their decision to have someone do such important work where they are unaware of your abilities and are unwilling to supply the correct tools. 

To answer your question directly we'd have to know the actual part you are using.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I see Speedy's point but as a Foreman I would consider this a very basic task and would expect a forth year guy to be able to do it or ask questions.

Dolphins are a brand of small wire connectors.

http://www.dolphincomponents.com/


As far as using channelocs on the connectors you are using that could be correct or wrong depending on the type of connectors.

Some are made to be installed without specialized tools.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I see Speedy's point but as a Foreman I would consider this a very basic task and would expect a forth year guy to be able to do it or ask questions.


OK, point taken.







BBQ said:


> Dolphins are a brand of small wire connectors.
> 
> http://www.dolphincomponents.com/
> 
> ...


How is the reliability with these? 
I have ton a ton of Cat5 terms and never liked the squeeze-on style. Then again, if you don't punch down the other style correctly you also have issues.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> How is the reliability with these?
> I have ton a ton of Cat5 terms and never liked the squeeze-on style. Then again, if you don't punch down the other style correctly you also have issues.


I don't do a lot of data stuff but I am not comfortable with squeeze on ones either. I can't say that I have reason for that it just seems those are more DIY than pro.

We use Panduit ones that we need a punch down tool for.

The only Dolphin product we use a lot of are these for security work.










You do not have to strip the wires, just push them in and squeeze with your linemens


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Looks like you can install those as you described, make sure the cover is square on before you squeeze.

I myself prefer leviton and a rapidjack, lace, squeeze, done.


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

BBQ said:


> The only Dolphin product we use a lot of are these for security work.


Rooster rubbers!


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I've used some squeeze ons for Cat6 and didn't mind them at all. 

To answer your other question, yes you should have them give you a tool to test (read: certify) the jacks/wiring.


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

The squeeze jacks were basically invented for sparkys without the punchdown tools, eg - hubble, systimax and clipsal. Most except Hubble will still accept a 110. I punchdown then crimp with channellocks as I want to see that each conductor is seated correctly before the cover goes on.


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

We can get a RJ45 wiremap and continuity tester for about $10 here. Must be cheaper over there.


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

You should have a Cat-5e tester that will tell you if the cable and connections pass or fails.


----------



## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

I know what you are talking about. 

its a panduit jack


looks like this











and the tool i think you are tlaking about is this right?












What type of jacks are they? 

all i do is low volt


----------



## FireInTheWire (Oct 30, 2011)

Hmmm... I do low volt sometimes too... interesting!


----------



## MattMc (May 30, 2011)

We just use punchdown style for both cat 5e and 6 , never used the other kind, I suppose they would be ok, but when your doing so many of them it's hard to believe they would use that type. As for the tester we use the ideal VDV tester it works well, but klein also makes one that is cheaper. The in house IT guys where we do most of our data terminations have a really nice fluke tester, if I did more I'd definately want the Fluke.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Muddrummer14 said:


> Hey LV Guys!
> 
> I am a 4th year electrical apprentice and have been given the responsibility of terminating all the cat 5 for our data in the assisted living facility that is currently under construction.
> I have terminated cat5 before and have used specialized low volt tools. I believe one of the tools was called a dolphin... i think... maybe.
> ...


Does this work as well as a phone/cat5 crimp er?


----------



## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

mikeh32 said:


> I know what you are talking about.
> 
> its a panduit jack
> 
> ...


We custom make different lengths of cat 5 with rj45 connectors......We don't use the 3 M sqeezes:no:I hate the 110 punch down,prefer 66 block punch down ....We do tons of cat 5 splicing,single mode fiber splicing,50 pair copper splicing ...COMM work is easy to install ,trouble shooting is another animal in it's self:thumbup:


----------



## Muddrummer14 (Oct 31, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> So they are having you do over 300 rooms, and you are unsure of yourself??
> Do they know this, or did they assume you know exactly what you are doing?
> 
> I am NOT questioning your abilities, I AM questioning their decision to have someone do such important work where they are unaware of your abilities and are unwilling to supply the correct tools.
> ...



Like i said, My foreman has assured this is the correct method and it seems like a few other low volt guys here have no qualms with it, but why not test this forum/resource out and get a second opinion? Believe me It seemed a little hack espescially scince they make low volt tools specifically for this application. What im learning though is that some tools are a bit unnessesarry. All im doing is asking for a professional second opinion, i can find those here, right? or am i in the wrong place...


----------



## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

I do them all. and the channel locks do work as the op said


----------



## Muddrummer14 (Oct 31, 2011)

Yup! thats them! I'm ok then using the channellocks.


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

ce2two said:


> I hate the 110 punch down,prefer 66 block punch down


I prefer 110, no need to untwist the pairs. Also, most 66 blocks are not cat5 rated, properly terminating c5 to 66 blocks is time consuming.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I use one of these:










and one of these:










Seems to do me just fine :whistling2:


----------



## Clintmiljavac (Aug 18, 2011)

I do cat 5e and 6 every now n then...the B term is 









Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Clintmiljavac said:


> I do cat 5e and 6 every now n then...the B term is


You need to charge up your phone, dude.


----------



## Clintmiljavac (Aug 18, 2011)

erics37 said:


> You need to charge up your phone, dude.


Ya end of night getting ready to plug her in now!

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


----------



## Wired4Life10 (Jul 9, 2011)

Clintmiljavac said:


> I do cat 5e and 6 every now n then...the B term is
> 
> View attachment 10000
> 
> ...


What app is this??


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

sarness said:


> I myself prefer leviton and a rapidjack, lace, squeeze, done.


My bad, its actually called a JackRapid,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkeNMIUbECo


----------



## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

sarness said:


> My bad, its actually called a JackRapid,
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkeNMIUbECo


Lol... I never see any low volt guys with one of those. 

I can normally get about 200 jacks done in 8hrs


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

I had a guy that claimed he was "King Terminator" I was able to do 3-4 jacks to his 2. And he was terminating all eight conductors at once, which is not recommended. He also left a mess and I didn't, course I've also been at it for 20+ years now.

How many jacks per hour? I couldn't tell you as I haven't been on jobs that big. But when I started using it I saved about 10-15 minutes per location (outlet 2 cat3 jacks, 1-2 cat5 and 1-2 cat5 for patch)

It's a good tool, I like it, makes it simpler and less problematic. More so since you don't have to mess with a hockey puck to hold the jack (if you use one).


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

sarness said:


> I had a guy that claimed he was "King Terminator" I was able to do 3-4 jacks to his 2. And he was terminating all eight conductors at once, which is not recommended. He also left a mess and I didn't, course I've also been at it for 20+ years now.
> 
> How many jacks per hour? I couldn't tell you as I haven't been on jobs that big. But when I started using it I saved about 10-15 minutes per location (outlet 2 cat3 jacks, 1-2 cat5 and 1-2 cat5 for patch)
> 
> It's a good tool, I like it, makes it simpler and less problematic. More so since you don't have to mess with a hockey puck to hold the jack (if you use one).


What do you mean by all 8 conductors at once? Is there another way? My routine is strip the cable, organise your pairs, pull them on to the splitter of the jack with white and colour on the right side x4 then punch them all down and visual inspection then move on.


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

chewy said:


> What do you mean by all 8 conductors at once? Is there another way? My routine is strip the cable, organise your pairs, pull them on to the splitter of the jack with white and colour on the right side x4 then punch them all down and visual inspection then move on.


On leviton cat3-5e jacks the terminations go along the body. Instructions say to lace the first two pairs (blue/green) and punch those down, then lace the remaining pairs and terminate those. Reason being is that if you lace it all at once, you crush the wires on the end when you terminate the blue pair.

End terminated jacks don't seem to suffer from this (cat6) but I've almost always used the jackrapid and crushing the wires is not an issue.

Edit: From step 3 in the install instructions, I believe when I fist started using them it said to do the first two pairs, now your supposed to terminate after each pair. I've done all eight at once and have crushed the wires, no shorts, but poor practice.

3. Route the wires for termination as shown in
Table 1. Terminate one pair at a time starting
from rear of connector. Terminating each pair
after placement will prevent crushing the inside
pairs with the punchdown tool.


----------



## Clintmiljavac (Aug 18, 2011)

Wired4Life10 said:


> What app is this??


Elec ref

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


----------



## pc9460 (Jan 15, 2010)

Clintmiljavac said:


> I do cat 5e and 6 every now n then...the B term is
> 
> <img src="http://www.electriciantalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10000"/>
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


What is the name of this app?


----------



## pc9460 (Jan 15, 2010)

Nvm didn't see the next page (on iPhone)


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

sarness said:


> On leviton cat3-5e jacks the terminations go along the body. Instructions say to lace the first two pairs (blue/green) and punch those down, then lace the remaining pairs and terminate those. Reason being is that if you lace it all at once, you crush the wires on the end when you terminate the blue pair.
> 
> End terminated jacks don't seem to suffer from this (cat6) but I've almost always used the jackrapid and crushing the wires is not an issue.
> 
> ...


Oh I get ya, I havent used Leviton in about a year.


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Leviton is most common around here, then a mix of Siemens and generic quickport stuff.


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

sarness said:


> Leviton is most common around here, then a mix of Siemens and generic quickport stuff.


We use Belden and Systimax mostly for the warranty. Levitons common around here aswell.


----------



## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

sarness said:


> I prefer 110, no need to untwist the pairs. Also, most 66 blocks are not cat5 rated, properly terminating c5 to 66 blocks is time consuming.


We work with 50 pair into a data node some times we punch down cat.5 never had a problem with 66 blocks ...From a 25 pair block to the 66 block p/down ...i realize your a comm. contractor yet we work with more comm. in the goverment then a contractor works in 20 life times....If it documented and where might it be that cat.5 is not rated for 66 block:blink:We always use all 8 wires in RJ45's, if you don't it could spell sheer inexperience relative to cat 5....I have question maybe you can answer this, i reject more comm. jobs because contractors fail to use (end bells) ...after it's all spliced and pretty, i tell them to rip apart there splice and install the end bells and then mortar around them in the comm. vaults...These contractors lose there azz ..having to redo the work....:whistling2:


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

ce2two said:


> We work with 50 pair into a data node some times we punch down cat.5 never had a problem with 66 blocks ...From a 25 pair block to the 66 block p/down ...i realize your a comm. contractor yet we work with more comm. in the goverment then a contractor works in 20 life times....If it documented and where might it be that cat.5 is not rated for 66 block:blink:


Ok, do I understand that you say you take six 4 pair cables and combine them into one 25 pair cable?

I used to do this also, but I thought it fell out of favor due to crosstalk?

Yes, you can use 66 for cat5, fact they used to make a special version where 2 rows were closer to each other and also had more separation to the next pair. I switched to 110 for data a long time ago and haven't kept up on the specs for 66 blocks so honestly I can't say.

I was taught when terminating c5 to 66 that you bring 1 pair through the slot and run one wire up and one down. Doing this maintains the 1/2" untwisted restriction.



ce2two said:


> We always use all 8 wires in RJ45's, if you don't it could spell sheer inexperience relative to cat 5....


I use all 8 also, even though the original standard only specified 4, with the other 4 dedicated to a phone and mainframe? I forget, lol. I've never split an Ethernet cable.



ce2two said:


> I have question maybe you can answer this, i reject more comm. jobs because contractors fail to use (end bells) ...after it's all spliced and pretty, i tell them to rip apart there splice and install the end bells and then mortar around them in the comm. vaults...These contractors lose there azz ..having to redo the work....:whistling2:


Lucky me! I haven't had to do much vault work. Quick look at what your talking about makes me wonder why you wouldn't do it? Can you provide an example?


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

erics37 said:


> I use one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What the heck is that blue thing?


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

That's a jack holder, aka hockey puck, the jack sits in the middle, the cable gets held in the pincer looking thing on the end.

It makes it easier to terminate a jack.


----------



## Wired4Life10 (Jul 9, 2011)

sarness said:


> That's a jack holder, aka hockey puck, the jack sits in the middle, the cable gets held in the pincer looking thing on the end.
> 
> It makes it easier to terminate a jack.


Funny... I used one once and hated it so much, I threw it out in the street and kept working by hand. I guess it's just too hard to change your methods


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Wired4Life10 said:


> Funny... I used one once and hated it so much, I threw it out in the street and kept working by hand. I guess it's just too hard to change your methods


I agree with ya, I used to terminate them on my leg. Look into that jackrapid though, just lace the jack, stick it, squeeze the handle, put the cap on and your done.


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

sarness said:


> It makes it easier to terminate a jack.


Oh... I dont know... I got a good callouse going on my left index finger on the 3rd bone down :laughing:


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

chewy said:


> What the heck is that blue thing?





sarness said:


> That's a jack holder, aka hockey puck, the jack sits in the middle, the cable gets held in the pincer looking thing on the end.
> 
> It makes it easier to terminate a jack.


What he said.


----------



## bullheadpond (Jan 6, 2012)

It will be fine once you put the caps on. Most of the time you can snap them on with your fingers. as long as you punched the wires down far enough and correctly. 

I use this tester to test continuity.
http://www.dnrdataconnection.com/productDetail.php?id=157&


----------



## RWallace (Dec 18, 2008)

sarness said:


> My bad, its actually called a JackRapid,
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkeNMIUbECo



Very cool, very fast, BUT DAMN! Looks like you have to have different tools for different levition jacks, which are $8.18 when I can get them in bulk for $2.00 each Too damn expensive unless it is a gov job.....


----------



## RWallace (Dec 18, 2008)

ce2two said:


> We work with 50 pair into a data node some times we punch down cat.5 never had a problem with 66 blocks ...From a 25 pair block to the 66 block p/down ...i realize your a comm. contractor yet we work with more comm. in the goverment then a contractor works in 20 life times....If it documented and where might it be that cat.5 is not rated for 66 block:blink:We always use all 8 wires in RJ45's, if you don't it could spell sheer inexperience relative to cat 5....I have question maybe you can answer this, i reject more comm. jobs because contractors fail to use (end bells) ...after it's all spliced and pretty, i tell them to rip apart there splice and install the end bells and then mortar around them in the comm. vaults...These contractors lose there azz ..having to redo the work....:whistling2:


Even though I use wikipedia as reference, as my own alama mater of "DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME", I whole heartily agree with the following

"Currently, 66 blocks are considered legacy devices. Compared to more contemporary wire terminating devices they are physically large, and because of their maximum 16 MHz Category 3 signaling compatibility, they are ill suited for high speed data circuits faster than 10BASE-T. However, there are special Cat5e Certified 66 blocks available from manufacturers such as Siemon which meet all standards for Cat5e termination.[1]
"Split 50" 66 blocks are still used as network interface blocks in distribution frames to interconnect circuits with bridging clips, but are primarily limited to narrowband circuits such as POTS/DSL, DS0, or DS1 circuits.
Modern 110 blocks have largely supplanted 66 blocks in new installations because the newer termination is almost always Category 5 compliant, and capable of supporting 100 MHz or faster signaling."


RW


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Clintmiljavac said:


> I do cat 5e and 6 every now n then...the B term is
> 
> View attachment 10000
> 
> ...


 Hey man what app is that...? I know how to do it but i havent seen that app around. Looks cool..
I always use the punch down tool and disk holder for most jobs and pair test all my conections. 
Pretty simpe task if you ask me.. but ive got a touch of color blindness so i have been know to mess up certain brands of cat 5 that are a little harder for me to determine colors..


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

RWallace said:


> Very cool, very fast, BUT DAMN! Looks like you have to have different tools for different levition jacks, which are $8.18 when I can get them in bulk for $2.00 each Too damn expensive unless it is a gov job.....


Leviton has changed the jacks around so they all terminate in the back instead of on the top.

I don't know if they still sell it, but you could get the termination insert separately. Thus you just swap out the insert, they were supposed to have different inserts for different brands also. I use 100% Leviton though, rarely come across anything 5e existing that's not. I'll install whatever the customer wants though, with a disclaimerif it's not up to standards.


----------

