# Union



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

I have no idea why so many people in the trade have been brainwashed to resent unions. The idea of the ibew is to organize all electricians in the field. It is corporate America that has given the unions in this country a bad name for their own gain. They put the common worker against each other. The reason unions are out there is for a better living for its members. To rid the states of unions is also anti-American. Republicans are constantly trying to change laws that keep the working man out of their hunting woods and off of their golf courses. For anyone considering getting into the trades, check out your local hall. How many older men and women do you see working non union. Is it cause they are wiser? Cause they got rid of for being slower? If you are serious about the trade and want to make a living out of it.....:thumbsup:


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

Uhhhhh........


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

butcher733 said:


> Uhhhhh........


Good one.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

:laughing:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

cl219um said:


> I have no idea why so many people in the trade have been brainwashed to resent unions.


It is quite simple actually. Large organizations want workers to have less rights, more fear and lower wages. Those organizations spend a LOT of money promoting those things, and they do so very smartly.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

not sure why nobody understands what will happen when they finally abolish all of the unions fighting for wages and standards of living. turn us all into part time walmart help. no offense to anyone who is currently working there trying to make ends meet. i just heard wallyworlds latest ploy to keep workers there through the holidays is to put some of the people with seniority to full time. wow. who would have thought that benefits would keep workers happy. what a concept..


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Most every evangelical church I have been in, is seriously anti-union. Catholics used to be another wing of the labor movement, until unions backed the pro-choice agenda. And now it's like radical leftists have co-opted the labor movement.

It doesn't have to be this way, we shouldn't be in politics at all, except when it comes to american jobs!! We can't give anyone an excuse to sideline us because of some politically polar agenda.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

its kinda weird how few replies that i have gotten on this post. the guys i work with spend half of if not more than their entire lunch hour talking pro-union/ politics everyday at work. to get such little opinion of this subject in the union forum just seems rediculouse to me. i thought it would have more following from other brothers out there trying to keep the union alive. just keeping it real. i myself love to put in a days work and getting paid at the end of the week. to know that i will be able to live after work the same way doesnt hurt. i hate to brag but...


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Chew on this.

Non-union, a lot of the "older" folks ended up moving up to the office estimating and managing projects.

Union it's common they continue to pound the pavement.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

TGGT said:


> Chew on this.
> 
> Non-union, a lot of the "older" folks ended up moving up to the office estimating and managing projects.
> 
> Union it's common they continue to pound the pavement.


i will. i am 39 and in the union. bid and worked PMing jobs as well. whats your point? guys get the same chance to move up in the same way. your point?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

cl219um said:


> i will. i am 39 and in the union. bid and worked PMing jobs as well. whats your point? guys get the same chance to move up in the same way. your point?


Do they?

My point is that I've seen more old folks doing hard labor union than I ever did non-union. I couldn't tell you how a guy has the same chance to move up in the same way. There are fewer signatory EC's than there are non-union EC's, so how could there be room for all the aging journeymen?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

cl219um said:


> I have no idea why so many people in the trade have been brainwashed to resent unions. The idea of the ibew is to organize all electricians in the field. It is corporate America that has given the unions in this country a bad name for their own gain. They put the common worker against each other. The reason unions are out there is for a better living for its members. To rid the states of unions is also anti-American. Republicans are constantly trying to change laws that keep the working man out of their hunting woods and off of their golf courses. For anyone considering getting into the trades, check out your local hall. How many older men and women do you see working non union. Is it cause they are wiser? Cause they got rid of for being slower? If you are serious about the trade and want to make a living out of it.....:thumbsup:


OK, here is my answer.
I have always worked non-union just so you know. 
I have been on all kinds of jobs, large and small. One job early in my career I was doing some controls at a powerhouse, the union guys blocked every single isle so I could not go down. Really didn't bother me as I was getting paid by the hour but they got nothing done and I got nothing done.
Next one we could not park on the job until the GC made separate entrances for the union and non union companies. Then they sat there and spit on the cars as they came in. This was a large Harley store.
Then when I opened my own business and started to hire employees they decided to go after my guys and explain how "stupid" they are and how bad I was for not treating them well, or if I did put an add in the paper they would flood me with applications and threaten to sue for not hiring. I have never lost a one as I treat my guys like family.
No don't get me wrong as none of this really ever affected my business as I am just a small time contractor but why would I ever want to go union or send my guys to be taught by guys that really just want to put every contractor out of business.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Not true. They want signatory contractors to live. They were probably picketing the job you were working on cause they wanted the electricians on the job to have the same benefits as they, and there forefathers worked to achieve. Seeing someone cross a Picket line to take over there job in an unfamiliar town from some out of town company that pays an unfair wage with no insurance is a kick in the nuts.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

TGGT said:


> Do they?
> 
> My point is that I've seen more old folks doing hard labor union than I ever did non-union. I couldn't tell you how a guy has the same chance to move up in the same way. There are fewer signatory EC's than there are non-union EC's, so how could there be room for all the aging journeymen?


For the most part our older journeymen still work the field - we just take care of them and let them share their experience and advice with the younger folks. I know way more retired field hands than folks who made it into the office.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Not true. They want signatory contractors to live. They were probably picketing the job you were working on cause they wanted the electricians on the job to have the same benefits as they, and there forefathers worked to achieve. Seeing someone cross a Picket line to take over there job in an unfamiliar town from some out of town company that pays an unfair wage with no insurance is a kick in the nuts.


Hahahahaha suuuuurrreeee. :thumbsup:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> Hahahahaha suuuuurrreeee. :thumbsup:


Coming from your greed is good, I can tell your paying your men top scale for their work in the field. Living the dream I bet...


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Coming from your greed is good, I can tell your paying your men top scale for their work in the field. Living the dream I bet...


My greed bad. Union worker greed good. Got it. :thumbup:


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Most of this talk is bull$hit, because even within the IBEW, every local operates differently from each other. Every local's culture, pay scale, benefits, program is different. I resent this notion that the IBEW as a whole is benevolent. It's a organization whose purpose is to sell it's members labor. Some locals approach this from the top down, and others are more democratic.

Some guy is gonna spout all the great benefits and privileges they have from their experience, and somebody else is gonna do the opposite. Best thing anyone can do is push for change within their own local.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> My greed bad. Union worker greed good. Got it. :thumbup:


Fair for all good. Not just the guy who signs the check. Duh. Not easy working in the field. Sure the man in the ivory tower is taking some risks. So is the guy working in a small shop with little to no training.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Fair for all good. Not just the guy who signs the check. Duh. Not easy working in the field. Sure the man in the ivory tower is taking some risks. So is the guy working in a small shop with little to no training.


And you get to be the decider of what's fair and who's properly trained because...... ???


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

This is awesome. 


My local is better than yours


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

cl219um said:


> Not true. They want signatory contractors to live. They were probably picketing the job you were working on cause they wanted the electricians on the job to have the same benefits as they, and there forefathers worked to achieve. Seeing someone cross a Picket line to take over there job in an unfamiliar town from some out of town company that pays an unfair wage with no insurance is a kick in the nuts.


Are you saying not true about my post? I hope not.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

TGGT said:


> Most of this talk is bull$hit, because even within the IBEW, every local operates differently from each other. Every local's culture, pay scale, benefits, program is different. I resent this notion that the IBEW as a whole is benevolent. It's a organization whose purpose is to sell it's members labor. Some locals approach this from the top down, and others are more democratic.
> 
> Some guy is gonna spout all the great benefits and privileges they have from their experience, and somebody else is gonna do the opposite. Best thing anyone can do is push for change within their own local.


Well said. I have had the opportunity to work both. I am grateful for everything the union has done. It kinda sucks that I haven't had much to say other than experience the non union gave me before I got in. I too crossed picket lines. I too worked without insurance while my wife was pregnant thinking how the heck am I ever going to pay the medical bills knowing my wife was going to need a c- section. I too worked out of town when the company told everyone on the road to find their own apartment. The job didn't have it in the budget to pay subsistence. I'm not here to go against the small contractors trying to argue why they are non union and wiring chicken shacks. I am arguing the big business sector. Paying guys low wages and screwing them over left and right.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Have you ever considered that non union contractors do big jobs also?
Non union contractors provide insurance?
Non union contractors pay per diem and supply room and board?
Non union contractors don't screw their employees left and right?


How does it work when you are a traveler? Does the contractor pay you per diem for that?
Oh that's different...


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Are you saying not true about my post? I hope not.


Saying pro union guys don't want every contractor to fail. Yes. Ones that treat guys bad. If they treat workers fairly I hope they do well.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

The last voice people really have are the collective voice offered by unions. Now that they are losing ground we are loosing our voice about the way we make our living.
We can only blame ourselves. We let the greedy, brainwash the ignorant, and now we have the ignorant regurgitating the propaganda they hear from those bought by anti worker money.

They all have the same story every day. I can turn Glenn Beck on the radio and tell what the lesson of the day will be. People just gobble it up. He gets paid and our country remains divided.
Starts again with the next radio guy.
Then on to the next day, next week, next month, next year.


Follow the money they say.
It leads to the money transfer out of the working mans hands by the corporate greed of the early 80s.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

walkerj said:


> Have you ever considered that non union contractors do big jobs also?
> Non union contractors provide insurance?
> Non union contractors pay per diem and supply room and board?
> Non union contractors don't screw their employees left and right?
> ...


Yes, some very very rare exceptions are out there but, they wouldn't be doing it if those minimum standards were not established by trade unions.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> Have you ever considered that non union contractors do big jobs also?
> Non union contractors provide insurance?
> Non union contractors pay per diem and supply room and board?
> Non union contractors don't screw their employees left and right?
> ...


I have been set up by contractors on the road with a truck, hotel. Expense acct. but only when I am representing the company running work. If I go into someone else's house other than that I work under there agreement and am there b cuz they have an abundance of work and need my help. I am not there taking unemployed men's work over ...


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

cl219um said:


> Well said. I have had the opportunity to work both. I am grateful for everything the union has done. It kinda sucks that I haven't had much to say other than experience the non union gave me before I got in. I too crossed picket lines. I too worked without insurance while my wife was pregnant thinking how the heck am I ever going to pay the medical bills knowing my wife was going to need a c- section. I too worked out of town when the company told everyone on the road to find their own apartment. The job didn't have it in the budget to pay subsistence. I'm not here to go against the small contractors trying to argue why they are non union and wiring chicken shacks. I am arguing the big business sector. Paying guys low wages and screwing them over left and right.


My non-union experience was great compared to my union experience so far.

I've managed to make _something_ change, but as a whole my local is disorganized, apathetic, and complacent. I have a personal goal to organize the organized.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

jrannis said:


> The last voice people really have are the collective voice offered by unions. Now that they are losing ground we are loosing our voice about the way we make our living.
> We can only blame ourselves. We let the greedy, brainwash the ignorant, and now we have the ignorant regurgitating the propaganda they hear from those bought by anti worker money.
> 
> They all have the same story every day. I can turn Glenn Beck on the radio and tell what the lesson of the day will be. People just gobble it up. He gets paid and our country remains divided.
> ...


This will be my last post in this but I believe the unions brought this on themselves with their lack of flexibility. Maybe not so much the IBEW but unions in general. Their thug like tactic don't help much either.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Yes, some very very rare exceptions are out there but, they wouldn't be doing it if those minimum standards were not established by trade unions.


So now it's the minimum standard as opposed to the better of the two?

You can't have your cake and throw it in someone's face too.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> This will be my last post in this but I believe the unions brought this on themselves with their lack of flexibility. Maybe not so much the IBEW but unions in general. Their thug like tactic don't help much either.


Go on a job today. We do a lot of our own work. What's ours we do. Don't cross craft lines.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

cl219um said:


> its kinda weird how few replies that i have gotten on this post. the guys i work with spend half of if not more than their entire lunch hour talking pro-union/ politics everyday at work. to get such little opinion of this subject in the union forum just seems rediculouse to me. i thought it would have more following from other brothers out there trying to keep the union alive. just keeping it real. i myself love to put in a days work and getting paid at the end of the week. to know that i will be able to live after work the same way doesnt hurt. i hate to brag but...


What do you want people to do, fight? That's what the union/non-union discussions usually end up being. I disagree with you that the large corporations have given the union a bad name. The union has done that for itself. I would agree that large corporations probably are against union labor. What gives the union a bad name is when they go on strike etc. and act in a manner that leaves a bad taste in the public's mouth. A number of the union guys on here have class and I wouldn't mind working with them at all. I don't think they're the kind that would come in an rip out a non-union contractor's work. Maybe the union needs to police it's workers a little better. I have very few union shops in my area though.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> So now it's the minimum standard as opposed to the better of the two?
> 
> You can't have your cake and throw it in someone's face too.


Heck yeah. If you pay better than a sig con, I'll work for you. No one in the union is against that. That's a standard. Not a double standard. Short bus?:laughing:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

wendon said:


> What do you want people to do, fight? That's what the union/non-union discussions usually end up being. I disagree with you that the large corporations have given the union a bad name. The union has done that for itself. I would agree that large corporations probably are against union labor. What gives the union a bad name is when they go on strike etc. and act in a manner that leaves a bad taste in the public's mouth. A number of the union guys on here have class and I wouldn't mind working with them at all. I don't think they're the kind that would come in an rip out a non-union contractor's work. Maybe the union needs to police it's workers a little better. I have very few union shops in my area though.


Yes. Fight for better way of living. Organize I say. I love my job and I see it falling to the wayside. Sorry if you don't see that as classy. I said nothing about the non union worker. We are electricians and I would love to see us all benefit from our hard labor we do. Sorry I don't see where you are coming from. No difference between a trained electrician working non. Just the benefits...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

cl219um said:


> Yes. Fight for better way of living. Organize I say. I love my job and I see it falling to the wayside. Sorry if you don't see that as classy. I said nothing about the non union worker. We are electricians and I would love to see us all benefit from our hard labor we do. Sorry I don't see where you are coming from. No difference between a trained electrician working non. Just the benefits...


I would love to see everyone have a shot at the training and benefits we have. 
I cant understand why someone would take great pride in being paid less and not having decent insurance or retirement. 
Maybe if you had no choice, you would just have to be accepting of your situation.
Just dont hate those of us who went the extra mile to get what we have.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Yes. Fight for better way of living. Organize I say. I love my job and I see it falling to the wayside. Sorry if you don't see that as classy. I said nothing about the non union worker. We are electricians and I would love to see us all benefit from our hard labor we do. Sorry I don't see where you are coming from. No difference between a trained electrician working non. Just the benefits...


It might depend which side of the coin you're looking at. As a small business owner, it's a little tough to see your profits drain away in taxes, taxes and more taxes. Oh, and now threatened with penalties on top of everything else.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

wendon said:


> It might depend which side of the coin you're looking at. As a small business owner, it's a little tough to see your profits drain away in taxes, taxes and more taxes. Oh, and now threatened with penalties on top of everything else.


AND, tax credits!


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

jrannis said:


> AND, tax credits!


Let me know where I can sign up.........


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

jrannis said:


> The last voice people really have are the collective voice offered by unions. Now that they are losing ground we are loosing our voice about the way we make our living.
> We can only blame ourselves. We let the greedy, brainwash the ignorant, and now we have the ignorant regurgitating the propaganda they hear from those bought by anti worker money.
> 
> They all have the same story every day. I can turn Glenn Beck on the radio and tell what the lesson of the day will be. People just gobble it up. He gets paid and our country remains divided.
> ...


Good _one_ jrannis, and all _very _true too.

Imho, we'd need to go back to the gilded age to assume todays_ level_ of labor bashing propaganda 










There is no better time for the unions proletariat voice imho

Unions are in a similar position they were in a century ago , in that they could awaken and unite labor to the growing disparity, the greed, those that would degrade demean and divide for their own gain

In fact, it might well be said the entire _fate_ of the middle class rests at the feet of that last collective voice , the undeniable interconnectability escaping maybe those sorts living under a rock....

So....when are you folks gonna get started ??? :whistling2:


~CS~


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

cl219um said:


> I have no idea why so many people in the trade have been brainwashed to resent unions. The idea of the ibew is to organize all electricians in the field. It is corporate America that has given the unions in this country a bad name for their own gain. They put the common worker against each other. The reason unions are out there is for a better living for its members. To rid the states of unions is also anti-American. Democrats are constantly trying to change laws that keep the working man out of their hunting woods and off of their golf courses. For anyone considering getting into the trades, check out your local hall. How many older men and women do you see working non union. Is it cause they are wiser? Cause they got rid of for being slower? If you are serious about the trade and want to make a living out of it.....:thumbsup:


FIFY here's why,the establishment in both party's are working behind the scenes to cut your balls off,don't kid yourself,they come on TV and say what you want to hear and in the background on the golf course they're kissing each other's butts and working together to undercut us peasants.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)




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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

We got alot of broken down old timers on the job. The average age is like 45. Alot of people got limps and crooked backs.

1 apprentice to ten journeymen ratios.

LOL, about everyone of them could run all the work at a tiny shop or be a PM at a non-union EC. Most of them have. 

Where do you think people in this trade go to retire?? In many regions there is no place left for them to go.... they fade away sucking dry the treasury on disability and other welfares. Put your efforts where it pays back for the rest of us.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mr hands said:


> We got alot of broken down old timers on the job. The average age is like 45. Alot of people got limps and crooked backs.
> 
> 1 apprentice to ten journeymen ratios.
> 
> ...


Rather profound introspect Mr Hands.:thumbsup:

myself, i figure my fate will be in an orange smock, outdated advice, w/ hint of gin....

~CS~


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Rather profound introspect Mr Hands.:thumbsup:
> 
> myself, i figure my fate will be in an orange smock, outdated advice, w/ hint of gin....
> 
> ~CS~


Do you want ties with that???:laughing::laughing:


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> myself, i figure my fate will be in an orange smock, outdated advice, w/ hint of gin....


Owners like yourself have an out. It's the lumpsum that comes with selling the business. But the average non-union john doesn't have a prayer.

None of us has a prayer, really. When the silver tsunami comes, it will clean out the market and the treasury. All we have is each other, maybe there is enough time to learn to stick together. All I got is my health, in other words.

Looking back historically on the collapse of the soviet union, the people who survived were the slackers. They still had their baseline health and the system-wide failure was a relief for them. The hard workers who had burned the candle at both ends and lived for work and had the soviet equivalent of wealth, they had heart attacks and strokes.

I been reprioritizing my life since accepting that.


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## Dnewman (May 24, 2013)

why do you need a union to protect your rights? there are an entire book of state and federal employment laws that protect an employee, why do you need a union to organize for your "rights" the law protects you already. I think you sir are the one who is brain washed, unions are dying deal with it. Its not 1850 anymore


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## Dnewman (May 24, 2013)

also i treat my employee's like family , i am very much apart of there families and i have earned there respect , if i treated them poorly they would just go and work for someone else and i would loose good talent, quit your whining already


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Dnewman said:


> also i treat my employee's like family , i am very much apart of there families and i have earned there respect , if i treated them poorly they would just go and work for someone else and i would loose good talent, quit your whining already


You sound like the perfect boss in your own mind. There aren't a whole lot of you in real life though, we could use a little more.


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

Unions operate on the principle that everyone is the same. I am not the same, I am better. Plain and simple.
I will take care of myself, I don't need anyone's help. I will also take care of my employees, I don't need anyone to tell me to.
The rest of you can do as you see fit.


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## emahler (Oct 13, 2011)

cl219um said:


> I have no idea why so many people in the trade have been brainwashed to resent unions. The idea of the ibew is to organize all electricians in the field. It is corporate America that has given the unions in this country a bad name for their own gain. They put the common worker against each other. The reason unions are out there is for a better living for its members. To rid the states of unions is also anti-American. Republicans are constantly trying to change laws that keep the working man out of their hunting woods and off of their golf courses. For anyone considering getting into the trades, check out your local hall. How many older men and women do you see working non union. Is it cause they are wiser? Cause they got rid of for being slower? If you are serious about the trade and want to make a living out of it.....:thumbsup:


what you've said above sounds great...so does most of what Karl Marx said in his communist manifesto...the problem is that what you've said, rarely, if ever, ends up the reality..

i'm sure you've heard the saying "hide and seek for a grand a week"? it wasn't started by non-union guys, and it's been around for 40 years..

look inside, as well as outside, for the cause of the destruction..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

cl219um said:


> I have no idea why so many people in the trade have been brainwashed to resent unions.


You should ask the unions around me (Boston / Providence ) why they act like such douche bags. 

My feelings on the union all come from my personal experiences with them.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Had a job destroyed by "goons" in the early 80s. Went to the hall to see about signing, was told I would have to get rid of 28 guys and they would supply all the manpower I needed. Walked out and never looked back. Been sizing down the past few of years, down to six guys now. Four of them have been with me over 20 years. The "prevailing wage" in our area, with benefits, exceeds $80 an hour. I pay it when required. If I had to charge that for my regular customers, I wouldn't have the steady work that I have. With the steady customer base that I've developed, I don't have to "scrape the bottom " for work.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

cl219um said:


> I have no idea why so many people in the UNION have been brainwashed to resent OTHERS. The idea of the ibew is to STEAL DUES FROM all electricians in the field. It is the IBEW that has given the unions in this country a bad name for their own gain. They put the ELECTRICIANS against each other. The reason unions are out of WORK IS BECAUSE OF UNION GREED . To rid the states of unions is also American. DEMOCRATS are constantly trying to change laws that keep the AMERICAN WORKER( HERE LEGALLY) out of their hunting woods and off of their golf courses. For anyone considering getting into the trades, DONT!!!!!!. How many older men and women do you see OUT OF WORK SITTING ON THE BENCH. Is it cause they are wiser? Cause they got rid of for being GREEDY? If you are serious about the trade and want to SPEND 3/4 OF YOUR CAREER ON UNEMPLOYMENT AND DRUNK ON KOOL AID PAYING FOR GREEDY BUSINESS AGENTS VACATION HOMES..... GO UNION !!!!!:



Fixed it for you

Why is it that trolls always post this pro union crap but you never see a merit shop guy starting a thread bashing union?

Its like little man syndrome


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Fixed it for you
> 
> Why is it that trolls always post this pro union crap but you never see a merit shop guy starting a thread bashing union?
> 
> Its like little man syndrome


Half of the threads in this section of the forum are non union folks starting union bashing threads. It is pretty monotonous actually.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

In a shocking twist eejackoff kinda gave me a compliment in another thread so I'll take a pass on trolling for the time being. :thumbup:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> In a shocking twist eejackoff kinda gave me a compliment in another thread so I'll take a pass on trolling for the time being. :thumbup:


Hey, you earned it. Troll away if it makes you happy. :thumbsup:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Fixed it for you
> 
> Why is it that trolls always post this pro union crap but you never see a merit shop guy starting a thread bashing union?
> 
> Its like little man syndrome


Gee. This is the UNION topic section, not the merit shop section. So it could be said you felt compelled to post in a pro union thread. So WHOM is the troll here sir?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BBQ said:


> You should ask the unions around me (Boston / Providence ) why they act like such douche bags.
> 
> My feelings on the union all come from my personal experiences with them.


I imagine it's because most anyone I ever met from Boston was a douche.:laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

big2bird said:


> I imagine it's because most anyone I ever met from Boston was a douche.:laughing:


Can't argue with that. :laughing:


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Dnewman said:


> also i treat my employee's like family , i am very much apart of there families and i have earned there respect , if i treated them poorly they would just go and work for someone else and i would loose good talent, quit your whining already


$20.00 says I made more today than you pay your guys in a week.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

big2bird said:


> Gee. This is the UNION topic section, not the merit shop section. So it could be said you felt compelled to post in a pro union thread. So WHOM is the troll here sir?


It is the union section it doesn't say Pro or Anti.:laughing::laughing:

Like electrical work we just assume we own everything?


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

brian john said:


> It is the union section it doesn't say Pro or Anti.:laughing::laughing:
> 
> Like electrical work we just assume we own everything?


Took you long enough to show up in this thread. :thumbsup:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

big2bird said:


> $20.00 says I made more today than you pay your guys in a week.


I'll take that bet!:laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> $20.00 says I made more today than you pay your guys in a week.


b2b,

Here is the thing, I know I could make more per hour with the union, yet still the actions of the union in this area made me decide long ago I would gladly give up the little bit extra to stay out of the 'gang' and the rep they have.

Sad isn't it?

Your brothers act like such DBs that I would rather make less than be one of them.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> I imagine it's because most anyone I ever met from Boston was a douche.:laughing:


:laughing:

Yeah, but the organized DBs are the worst.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

brian john said:


> It is the union section it doesn't say Pro or Anti.:laughing::laughing:
> 
> Like electrical work we just assume we own everything?


The guy was bitching about a union topic in the union section. WTF else would it be?


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

brian john said:


> I'll take that bet!:laughing:


You aren't the guy I was talking about. However, I bet I'm up there with your guys Brian.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BBQ said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Yeah, but the organized DBs are the worst.


The Red Sox?:laughing:


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Oh well. 3 more years and I will hit 62 and almost 60,000 hours. I am SO done with the whole deal.
My hope is that I am not the end of the middle class as we know it.


----------



## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

I never in my life said unions were all bad. I have said they abuse their power into the ridiculous level. Common sense is abandoned in favor of "being fair". I'm really not sure if abandoned is the correct word because it is so far beyond there really is no word for it. Purposefully abused? Taken advantage of? Obtuse? 

Actually, Unions remind me of the parable the scorpion and the frog. 

* A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the 
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The 
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion 
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of 
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?" 

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."*

It's just the nature of unions to become all powerful and therefore self destructive.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

I have seen 35 years of this stuff. When work is good, we get some advances in terms and wages. 
When times are bad, we give up plenty of concessions.
It's a pendulum that swings back and forth.
Since we only have power when work is good, and we know we will give back when times are poor, OF COURSE we ask for better conditions when work is good. It's the only time when we can.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

big2bird said:


> $20.00 says I made more today than you pay your guys in a week.


always the puffed chest  I probably shouldn't , but I feel sorry you folks can't validate your existence better than this.....:no:~CS~


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Steve,
It's not about bragging really. It's about making what your worth.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

big2bird said:


> Steve,
> It's not about bragging really. It's about making what your worth.


Isn't that completely the opposite of the union way??


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> Isn't that completely the opposite of the union way??


Making a fair wage is exactly what the union is based on.
Having to use food stamps to eat is Wal Marts way.


----------



## emahler (Oct 13, 2011)

big2bird said:


> Steve,
> It's not about bragging really. It's about making what your worth.


Honest question- is a guy who can't read blueprints worth $90/hr? Calculate pipe fill? Determine proper wire size? Wire a 3 way? 4 way? Etc. 

Cause I've had to pay $90/hr to all those guys. And even at Pw and union job rates, they didn't make me money.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

emahler said:


> Honest question- is a guy who can't read blueprints worth $90/hr? Calculate pipe fill? Determine proper wire size? Wire a 3 way? 4 way? Etc.
> 
> Cause I've had to pay $90/hr to all those guys. And even at Pw and union job rates, they didn't make me money.


Nope. If I had a guy that cannot do those chores, he was down the road. Been there, done that.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

big2bird said:


> Making a fair wage is exactly what the union is based on.


Ah a fair wage, determined by????

What you said though was "making what you're worth" which is completely in opposition the what the union is all about.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> Ah a fair wage, determined by????
> 
> What you said though was "making what you're worth" which is completely in opposition the what the union is all about.


Let me tell you a little secret. Union scale is a minimum. A contractor can pay you all they want above that scale. As GF I made a lot of money, and got bonuses. Capiche?


----------



## emahler (Oct 13, 2011)

big2bird said:


> Nope. If I had a guy that cannot do those chores, he was down the road. Been there, done that.


Doesn't solve the problem. Kicks the can down the road, but doesn't fix it. 

I've had ones who were so and so's brother/BIL/nephew/son/etc. 

And I might only pay them for a week or 2(and lose quite a bit of money in the process) but they just get sent to the next job. 

So, they work 6-9 months instead of 12, but they ain't worth the money. 

There needs to be a sliding scale.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

emahler said:


> Doesn't solve the problem. Kicks the can down the road, but doesn't fix it.
> 
> I've had ones who were so and so's brother/BIL/nephew/son/etc.
> 
> ...


There needs to be better, mandatory continuing education. 
Guys that get spun over and over because they are worthless eventually quit and work "elsewhere."


----------



## emahler (Oct 13, 2011)

big2bird said:


> There needs to be better, mandatory continuing education.
> Guys that get spun over and over because they are worthless eventually quit and work "elsewhere."


Eventually. But at what cost? 

Point is, the promise is not fulfilled nearly enough.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

There certainly seems to be a difference between the left and right coast as to how things work. Just sayin.............


----------



## emahler (Oct 13, 2011)

big2bird said:


> There certainly seems to be a difference between the left and right coast as to how things work. Just sayin.............


Northeast was one of the last strongholds. They overplayed their hand though. They went fighting for the avg man to hurting the avg man. 2 yr waits. 4 months work in between. Shop guys vs hall guys. Overpricing (nothing to do with actual dollars-everything to do with productivity for the money). 

They lost their way


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> There certainly seems to be a difference between the left and right coast as to how things work. Just sayin.............


That seems to be the case ....


And yes .... you were bragging and still are to some extent.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BBQ said:


> And yes .... you were bragging and still are to some extent.


If that bothers you, I will try and accelerate it.:laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> If that bothers you, I will try and accelerate it.:laughing:


:laughing:

It does not bother me that you want to act like just another union DB, I got used to that about 25 years ago. :whistling2:


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BBQ said:


> :laughing:
> 
> It does not bother me that you want to act like just another union DB, I got used to that about 25 years ago. :whistling2:


Okay. I'm a union DB, and your a rat bastard. Happy?:laughing:


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

emahler said:


> Northeast was one of the last strongholds. They overplayed their hand though. *They went fighting for the avg man to hurting the avg man.* 2 yr waits. 4 months work in between. Shop guys vs hall guys. Overpricing (nothing to do with actual dollars-everything to do with productivity for the money).
> 
> They lost their way


I'm afraid that sums it up rather well emahler

the shame of it is, if they really were swingin' for Joe Average, we'd all have their back

~CS~


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> Okay. I'm a union DB, and your a rat bastard. Happy?:laughing:


:thumbup:

At least amused.


----------



## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

big2bird said:


> I have seen 35 years of this stuff. When work is good, we get some advances in terms and wages.
> When times are bad, we give up plenty of concessions.
> It's a pendulum that swings back and forth.
> Since we only have power when work is good, and we know we will give back when times are poor, OF COURSE we ask for better conditions when work is good. It's the only time when we can.


That statement brought to mind a scene I saw over and over every year around Christmas time at Boeing in Wichita. There was always a strike during the winter. The diehard unions set up tents and cots and heaters for the protesters. Boeing had no work during that time of year so they didn't care what the unionites did freezing their aszes off holding signs waving at traffic. It was an effort in shear futility.


----------



## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

big2bird said:


> There needs to be better, mandatory continuing education.
> Guys that get spun over and over because they are worthless eventually quit and work *"elsewhere."[/*quote]
> 
> 
> Elsewhere meaning non-union? So you are saying these fellows weed themselves out of the union and following the logic further, them's that is left is the crème de la crème?


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

How do you folks get toolbelts to fit around such enormous egos? ~CS~


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> How do you folks get toolbelts to fit around such enormous egos? ~CS~


Sorry Steve. If you wish to talk egos, look no further than all the "hey look at me" threads in general.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

LARMGUY said:


> big2bird said:
> 
> 
> > There needs to be better, mandatory continuing education.
> ...


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> the shame of it is, if they really were swingin' for Joe Average, we'd all have their back
> 
> ~CS~


Reading all the hostility on here, I doubt it. Every time a union guy starts a thread on here, the same 5 "thugs" come down and pour threadlocker all over it just for kicks in the name of "opinion." 
I am just tired of it. 
The forum says it welcomes union members here, but the rules are skewed against us. You know it, and I know it. It's the same thing over and over.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

big2bird said:


> Reading all the hostility on here, I doubt it. Every time a union guy starts a thread on here, the same 5 "thugs" come down and pour threadlocker all over it just for kicks in the name of "opinion."
> I am just tired of it.
> The forum says it welcomes union members here, but the rules are skewed against us. You know it, and I know it. It's the same thing over and over.


Just like in real life, the thuggish attitude coupled with extreme one sided opinions coupled with whining and crying coupled with entitlement issues, makes union members the minority here.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Just like in real life, the thuggish attitude coupled with extreme one sided opinions coupled with whining and crying coupled with entitlement issues, makes non-union members the majority here.


There ya go.FIFY


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

big2bird said:


> ...
> Guys that get spun over and over because they are worthless eventually quit and work "elsewhere."


 Unfortunately those guys are mostly lazy and don't quit in the downtimes. More good hard working JWs leave the union in the downtimes than do the guys who get spun all the time.

The biggest union problem is that contractors don't fire workers that need to be fired.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The biggest union problem is that contractors don't fire workers that need to be fired.


And do you think that could be the result of contractors having to defend wrongful termination suits brought on by the unions?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> The forum says it welcomes union members here, but the rules are skewed against us. You know it, and I know it. It's the same thing over and over.


What a load of bull.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Sorry Steve. If you wish to talk egos, look no further than all the "hey look at me" threads in general.


You mean like the OP of this thread?


----------



## skinnyj41004 (Mar 17, 2007)

It could be because of who they know more than what they know.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The biggest union problem is that contractors don't fire workers that need to be fired.


I have fired my share. I usually try to find a fellow's talent and use it but I have never had a problem sending anyone back to the hall. Some go back with a clean layoff but others go back with a firing slip.

The biggest problem unions have is that anyone can make up anything they want about unions and someone will believe it applies universally to all unions all the time.:thumbsup:


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> And do you think that could be the result of contractors having to defend wrongful termination suits brought on by the unions?


Actually there is a grievance system in place to handle those things - they cannot go to court as long as the contractor follows the proper protocols.


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

eejack said:


> I have fired my share. I usually try to find a fellow's talent and use it but I have never had a problem sending anyone back to the hall. Some go back with a clean layoff but others go back with a firing slip.
> 
> The biggest problem unions have is that anyone can make up anything they want about unions and someone will believe it applies universally to all unions all the time.:thumbsup:


How many guys that you know of have actually been fired from the Union, where the union said you are no longer welcome for poor performance. I understand getting sent back to the hall that is not being fired from the union


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

electricalwiz said:


> How many guys that you know of have actually been fired from the Union, where the union said you are no longer welcome for poor performance. I understand getting sent back to the hall that is not being fired from the union


If you get fired twice in one calendar year in my local, you are reviewed by the executive board ( 50.50 split members contractors ) and can be ousted. I know of two, one of which I was responsible for firing their first time.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> Actually there is a grievance system in place to handle those things - they cannot go to court as long as the contractor follows the proper protocols.


I don't doubt it.

Now I own a company, do I waste my money having my staff go through the 'grievance system' with an unknown outcome or do I just tell the bad worker that work is slowing down go back to the hall?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> The biggest problem unions have is that anyone can make up anything they want about unions and someone will believe it applies universally to all unions all the time.:thumbsup:


Funny I would say one of the unions biggest issues is members like yourself who can't honestly look at how the public perceives the unions.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> I don't doubt it.
> 
> Now I own a company, do I waste my money having my staff go through the 'grievance system' with an unknown outcome or do I just tell the bad worker that work is slowing down go back to the hall?


You just send them back to the hall. You can lay off anyone at any time. Firing is different, that requires cause.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Funny I would say one of the unions biggest issues is members like yourself who can't honestly look at how the public perceives the unions.


I know how the public perceives us, and why.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> You just send them back to the hall. You can lay off anyone at any time. Firing is different, that requires cause.




Exactly the point people were talking about, the deadwood just gets recycled. 



eejack said:


> I know how the public perceives us, and why.


You have made it 100% clear that you do not.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

eejack said:


> I know how the public perceives us, and why.


methinks it could use a wee bit of attention eejack.....~CS~


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Exactly the point people were talking about, the deadwood just gets recycled.
> 
> You have made it 100% clear that you do not.


It gets recycled to a point, but they can only burn so many bridges and just find themselves on the out of work list often.

All the locals we are signatory with have a right to refusal. We use it all the time. If we had previously fired an employee we just refuse them on the next call. If they want to be a deadbeat for another contractor, go ahead, but not us.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Fixed it for you
> 
> Why is it that trolls always post this pro union crap but you never see a merit shop guy starting a thread bashing union?
> 
> Its like little man syndrome


all the response that i got i am sure is not by employees of merit shop. most are probably the open shop owners that probably havent touched a wire in years. just defending their greed. there have been a few that seem to care for their employees, but most are just trashing the union for their own financial gain. hate to see anyone from out in the field out at their country club on the weekends. as for you hacks changing my quotes along the way, shows how much we can trust any of you...


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

cl219um said:


> all the response that i got i am sure is not by employees of merit shop. most are probably the open shop owners that probably havent touched a wire in years. just defending their greed. there have been a few that seem to care for their employees, but most are just trashing the union for their own financial gain. hate to see anyone from out in the field out at their country club on the weekends. as for you hacks changing my quotes along the way, shows how much we can trust any of you...


Well I WAS a union guy, I have been on both sides of the fence, they both have pros and cons.

I went thru the apprenticeship program when I was honorably discharged from the military. While I was an apprentice I served in the Guard. One time I was activated for a hurricane I missed 4 nights of school and was laid off and sent back to the hall. Not only did I get benched I also got yelled and cursed at by the business agent. Now is that anyway a decorated military vet who was called back to serve his country should be treated ? That was the first sour taste the union put in my mouth.

On September 11th 2001 I was activated once again for over a month. I was on guard duty on the George Washington Bridge. When I was released I returned to the hall to get reprimanded once again this time by a different business agent. Funny how there are all kinds of laws to protect military reservists if they get activated, but apparently the IBEW didn't care .

I was out of work for several months, I was riding the bench,collecting and fishing down the shore on my old mans boat all summer, Met a girl and kinda stayed down here. When the local decided to call me back I told them I was down here so they offered to hook me up with the local closer by. When I went there they told me that when they were slow in the 80's they sent guys north and they were turned away so maybe if we need you we will call you.

I said screw these jerks and got me a non union job. I worked for a guy who treated me better then most of the union turds I worked for. I got licensed and started my own business. Leaving the union was the best thing that ever happened to me.

I treat my guys good, I have two ex union guys working for me right now. I am in the field every day, I did a 200 amp service today while two of my guys roughed the inside of a oceanfront.

This county club you speak of, I bet the business agent from your local spends more time there then any merit shop owner. I think if you ever sober up from you kool aid drunken stupor and remove them rose colored sunglasses you will see that your business agent is more like these CONs you speak of then the non union contractors you have been brainwashed to despise.

Now I am sure I will be attacked and called names like liar and rat but there are very few guys on here that can honestly say that they have worked on both sides.

I have, the pay was good WHEN i actually worked on union jobs, I didn't enjoy financing the business agents summer home with my dues, I didn't enjoy seeing lazy slobs get paid the same as me for doing much less work.

I own my own business and am master of my own destiny. I am rewarded for MY hard work not held down by the man.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

It is in the best interests of both the union and the contractors to weed out the poor performers. The international president is on record as saying that we need to weed out the bottom 10 to 15% of the membership, but there is not a real effective tool to make that happen.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> You just send them back to the hall. You can lay off anyone at any time. Firing is different, that requires cause.


And put on the pink slip not eligible for rehire


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> all the response that i got i am sure is not by employees of merit shop. most are probably the open shop owners that probably havent touched a wire in years. just defending their greed. there have been a few that seem to care for their employees, but most are just trashing the union for their own financial gain. hate to see anyone from out in the field out at their country club on the weekends. as for you hacks changing my quotes along the way, shows how much we can trust any of you...


I am an employee and I spend most mornings at the country club drinking mimosas while the owner is at the office working so you sir can GFY.


----------



## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

emahler said:


> Shop guys vs hall guys.


Some are just better actors than others.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BBQ said:


> And do you think that could be the result of contractors having to defend wrongful termination suits brought on by the unions?


Where do you get this crap BBQ?


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Well I WAS a union guy, I have been on both sides of the fence, they both have pros and cons.
> 
> I went thru the apprenticeship program when I was honorably discharged from the military. While I was an apprentice I served in the Guard. One time I was activated for a hurricane I missed 4 nights of school and was laid off and sent back to the hall. Not only did I get benched I also got yelled and cursed at by the business agent. Now is that anyway a decorated military vet who was called back to serve his country should be treated ? That was the first sour taste the union put in my mouth.
> 
> ...


You just sound like a hot head jerk that washed out of the military, then washed out of the union, now is bragging about a shop of 3. :jester:


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> You just sound like a hot head jerk that washed out of the military, then washed out of the union, now is bragging about a shop of 3. :jester:


No I got 12 guys working for me.


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> No I got 12 guys working for me.


Goodie.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> No I got 12 guys working for me.


When you say guys you mean kids fresh out of high school that think ten bucks an hour cash and no benefits is better than working at Walmart.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> When you say guys you mean kids fresh out of high school that think ten bucks an hour cash and no benefits is better than working at Walmart.


You are an idiot


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

walkerj said:


> You are an idiot


I second that


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> You are an idiot


 Guess I hit you on a sore subject. Sucks to be you.


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

cl219um said:


> When you say guys you mean kids fresh out of high school that think ten bucks an hour cash and no benefits is better than working at Walmart.


Im impressed . Youve come full circle. Started with wah wah whine why are people brainwashed to think blah blah unions they are so great. Then you label the non union ec paying horrible no benefits . Pathetic


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

cl219um said:


> When you say guys you mean kids fresh out of high school that think ten bucks an hour cash and no benefits is better than working at Walmart.


You know, you could say that more pleasantly. I mean you are most likely correct - based on his attitude he cannot keep quality guys working for him as there are many good non union contractors to choose from, but gosh golly, no reason to rub his nose in it.

If you had said, "Well I am glad you can find jobs for high school kids and get them started in the trades"...


----------



## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

I can here the pitter patter of little rat feet coming.:laughing:


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Next72969 said:


> Im impressed . Youve come full circle. Started with wah wah whine why are people brainwashed to think blah blah unions they are so great. Then you label the non union ec paying horrible no benefits . Pathetic


I tried the other side too. Don't blame me for them getting a bad name on my account. I got screwed out of six years of company matched 401k funds. That's just the start of my gripes..


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

big2bird said:


> I can here the pitter patter of little rat feet coming.:laughing:


You rang?! :laughing:


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> Guess I hit you on a sore subject. Sucks to be you.


Yes, because we pay our guys $10 an hour with no benefits and we make them drive their '92 civics to the job with their own 555s and KO sets. 
We won't even consider paying our supers scale apprentice wages. 
I actually make $16 to run all the work and crawl under baldy and Fattys desk everyday to thank them and say can I please have another. 
You are the problem. 
Our guys are paid well above scale here. 
Are you obtuse?
Possibly a learning disability from years of inbreeding with other members. 
Just because you are ****ing someone from the next local over doesn't mean you aren't related. He is still your cousin. Jesus grow up you ****ing child.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> You rang?! :laughing:


Seriously, just spit my coffee across the desk. Impeccable timing, would read again. :thumbsup:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

eejack said:


> Seriously, just spit my coffee across the desk. Impeccable timing, would read again. :thumbsup:


I'm just enjoying the topic at hand. Who doesn't love a good pissing contest. :laughing:


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I'm just enjoying the topic at hand. Who doesn't love a good pissing contest. :laughing:


I am the greatest electrician ever. 
We can just end this now because we all know its true. 

Problem solved. Next question.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

walkerj said:


> Yes, because we pay our guys $10 an hour with no benefits and we make them drive their '92 civics to the job with their own 555s and KO sets.
> We won't even consider paying our supers scale apprentice wages.
> I actually make $16 to run all the work and crawl under baldy and Fattys desk everyday to thank them and say can I please have another.
> You are the problem.
> ...


Fair enough. Just what is scale where you are?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

walkerj said:


> I am the greatest electrician ever.
> We can just end this now because we all know its true.
> 
> Problem solved. Next question.


It's on the internet, it has to be true! Congratulations! :thumbup:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

walkerj said:


> I am the greatest electrician ever.
> We can just end this now because we all know its true.
> 
> Problem solved. Next question.


Chicken Steve has a tool belt for you.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> Yes, because we pay our guys $10 an hour with no benefits and we make them drive their '92 civics to the job with their own 555s and KO sets.
> We won't even consider paying our supers scale apprentice wages.
> I actually make $16 to run all the work and crawl under baldy and Fattys desk everyday to thank them and say can I please have another.
> You are the problem.
> ...


Wow you are a sensitive one. If you are paid above scale your not the fight. It's the contractors that have one guy that actually know a good amount and three apprentices, four helpers, and a bunch of guys that come to work from the temployment agency with Velcro shoes. You know. They give them a hard hat as a test to see if they can actually put it together.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

big2bird said:


> Fair enough. Just what is scale where you are?


29.10 in New Orleans.
22.87 in Baton Rouge


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

big2bird said:


> Fair enough. Just what is scale where you are?


995 for life bro. 
I'm not doing your homework for you. 
You tell me. You know where to look just as well as I do


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> 995 for life bro.
> I'm not doing your homework for you.
> You tell me. You know where to look just as well as I do


Total package, or just scale? Cause that's just on the check...


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> Total package, or just scale? Cause that's just on the check...


Look if eejack can figure out where to find it I would hope you can too.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> Look if eejack can figure out where to find it I would hope you can too.


Sensitive and puzzling


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

cl219um said:


> When you say guys you mean kids fresh out of high school that think ten bucks an hour cash and no benefits is better than working at Walmart.



Hmmm well let's see


41,38, 35x2, 28,27, 25, 23 x2 ,22,21,18 

Not really kids, technically


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Hmmm well let's see
> 
> 
> 41,38, 35x2, 28,27, 25, 23 x2 ,22,21,18
> ...


I have socks that old.:laughing:


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## Thomps (Nov 27, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> Hmmm well let's see 41,38, 35x2, 28,27, 25, 23 x2 ,22,21,18 Not really kids, technically



On average, how long have your guys been with you?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

eejack said:


> You know, you could say that more pleasantly. I mean you are most likely correct - based on his attitude he cannot keep quality guys working for him as there are many good non union contractors to choose from, but gosh golly, no reason to rub his nose in it. If you had said, "Well I am glad you can find jobs for high school kids and get them started in the trades"...


Yea I can't keep quality guys.

Two guys have been with me since before I even started my business. The rest mostly have been with me for about five or six years, a few are new since sandy, never had anyone quit, bug I have fired a few.

I did predict attacks for my post, thanks for not disappointing me .


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> Total package, or just scale? Cause that's just on the check...


The problem is there is like 5 jobs going on in 995 territory right now and none of them are big jobs so unless its like $50 on the check its just like working anywhere else because you won't stay employed year round unless you are an evil shoppie. 

We pay our guys worth a **** scale or better and they have more perks like paid vacation instead of unemployment benefits. 

Now NOLA is a completely different story but we do work and compete with 130 even on PW jobs. 

We have 3 PW jobs going on in 130 territory and our guys get paid that rate all above the table. 
No tomfoolery. Look it up, report us, whatever. 

All that is happening right now is the 'hood is just making itself look just as bad to prospective members because of some folks beliefs. 
I think the IBEW is fantastic for some but it's just not for me. 

Can we just agree that I am the greatest electrician ever?
I mean that's what the real argument is, is it not?


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Hmmm well let's see
> 
> 
> 41,38, 35x2, 28,27, 25, 23 x2 ,22,21,18
> ...


That's great. What happens when they are older and not so quick on their feet. I am sure they will always have a spot in your heart at least. Maybe you should watch band of brothers. You may learn something.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> I did predict attacks for my post, thanks for not disappointing me .


Happy to help. :thumbsup:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

walkerj said:


> Can we just agree that I am the greatest electrician ever?
> I mean that's what the real argument is, is it not?


Some truths are undeniable.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> That's great. What happens when they are older and not so quick on their feet. I am sure they will always have a spot in your heart at least. Maybe you should watch band of brothers. You may learn something.


If he runs his firm correctly he should grow at a rate at which he can move those guys in to management.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

eejack said:


> Some truths are undeniable.


For that, I will concede that you are the second best.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> The problem is there is like 5 jobs going on in 995 territory right now and none of them are big jobs so unless its like $50 on the check its just like working anywhere else because you won't stay employed year round unless you are an evil shoppie.
> 
> We pay our guys worth a **** scale or better and they have more perks like paid vacation instead of unemployment benefits.
> 
> ...


I don't know... I am kind of good at this job too. Twenty years in this last summer. 11 non and 9 union. Not gonna back down is what I am saying I guess.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Hmmm well let's see
> 
> 
> 41,38, 35x2, 28,27, 25, 23 x2 ,22,21,18
> ...


I started when your oldest guy was 6, in a shop of 365 guys in the field.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> I don't know... I am kind of good at this job too. Twenty years in this last summer. 11 non and 9 union. Not gonna back down is what I am saying I guess.


I think most everyone here will agree that in terms of greatest electrician to ever walk this earth since Jesus, I have you beat. 
Can I get an Amen?!


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

cl219um said:


> That's great. What happens when they are older and not so quick on their feet. I am sure they will always have a spot in your heart at least. Maybe you should watch band of brothers. You may learn something.


Say what troll boy?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

walkerj said:


> I think most everyone here will agree that in terms of greatest electrician to ever walk this earth since Jesus, I have you beat.
> Can I get an Amen?!


BBQ will never agree to that. If post whore makes you the best, he wins.:laughing:


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

big2bird said:


> BBQ will never agree to that. If post whore makes you the best, he wins.:laughing:


Well since IWire is the missing link he may be the vote for the other best I will split the title with him.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> BBQ will never agree to that. If post whore makes you the best, he wins.:laughing:


Go run some extension cords you old fart.:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Go run some extension cords you old fart.:laughing:


I just did that today.:laughing:

Two more shows, and it's two months off. God I love this job.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BTW, our heaviest extension cord weighs 120 lbs. :laughing:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

walkerj said:


> I think most everyone here will agree that in terms of greatest electrician to ever walk this earth since Jesus, I have you beat.
> Can I get an Amen?!


Said the guy who earlier posted on another subject. "If it has wires and we can't or don't know how we sub it out." Not exactly, but that's what I got out of it. Whatever.. People have changed my quote throughout this subject on my thread.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

cl219um said:


> Said the guy who earlier posted on another subject. "If it has wires and we can't or don't know how we sub it out." Not exactly, but that's what I got out of it. Whatever.. People have changed my quote throughout this subject on my thread.


I didn't change your words but I see how it is.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> BTW, our heaviest extension cord weighs 120 lbs. :laughing:


And union rules require six men to carry it with spotters in front and back.:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

BBQ said:


> And union rules require six men to carry it with spotters in front and back.:laughing:


Company rules state 80 lbs max, but I carry them by myself. PITA. I prefer help, as your back gets pretty sore.
I can roll up a 4/0 welding cord 100' long in 23 seconds. I'd like to see some of the pussys on here try that trick.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Company rules state 80 lbs max, but I carry them by myself. PITA. I prefer help, as your back gets pretty sore. I can roll up a 4/0 welding cord 100' long in 23 seconds. I'd like to see some of the pussys on here try that trick.



Ohhhh you wormy bastard


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> I can roll up a 4/0 welding cord 100' long in 23 seconds. I'd like to see some of the pussys on here try that trick.


I do lots of 4/0 temp power cord, it can be tough.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

big2bird said:


> Company rules state 80 lbs max, but I carry them by myself. PITA. I prefer help, as your back gets pretty sore.
> I can roll up a 4/0 welding cord 100' long in 23 seconds. I'd like to see some of the pussys on here try that trick.





*Well in OC California
On the baddest job in town
And if you go down there
You better just beware of a man named Big2Bird

Now BigBird, more than trouble
You see he stand 'bout six foot four
All the benched Jmen call him 'effin muther
All the rats just call him Sir

He got a custom greenlee bender
He got a diesle tugger too
He got a hilti gun in his pocket for fun
He got a kline knife in his shoe

And it's bad, bad Big2Bird
The baddest man on the whole damned job
Badder than old King Kong
And meaner than a junkyard dog*

~CS~


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> *Well in OC California
> On the baddest job in town
> And if you go down there
> You better just beware of a man named Big2Bird
> ...


I'm flattered Steve. Funniest part is I am 6'4".:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Ohhhh you wormy bastard


I prefer stubborn.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

big2bird said:


> Company rules state 80 lbs max, but I carry them by myself. PITA. I prefer help, as your back gets pretty sore.
> I can roll up a 4/0 welding cord 100' long in 23 seconds. I'd like to see some of the pussys on here try that trick.


I have taken all our 100 footers and made them 50 footers.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

brian john said:


> I have taken all our 100 footers and made them 50 footers.


Smart. That makes a coil about 40 lbs. Much easier to handle. Lot's more cam locks though.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

big2bird said:


> Smart. That makes a coil about 40 lbs. Much easier to handle. Lot's more cam locks though.


But less back issues.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Say what troll boy?


That's pretty funny considering he is the OP of this thread.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> That's pretty funny considering he is the OP of this thread.



Yea I guess it is.

No one has ever started a thread to troll.

That would just be crazy, it's never happened before.......

Please read my post using a very sarcastic voice.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Yea I guess it is.
> 
> No one has ever started a thread to troll.
> 
> ...


I prefer this voice.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> I prefer this voice.


Obviously my post was too intelligent for you


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Obviously my post was too intelligent for you


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Yea I guess it is.
> 
> No one has ever started a thread to troll.
> 
> ...


this thread started as a pro union post by me, and remains. i hope by all the negativity by non union employers and management that this post will be viewed by people interested in the trade as useful as possible. if you want to work in the field and be relived of your job by attrition rather than a new strong back i believe the union is the place for you. whatever route you go, good luck. when you decide to be in this field for the long run, you are always welcome imo. if you are someone who wants to jam yourself into the trade and not afraid of slamming your coworker.... maybe the union isnt the place for you. brother up. in it together. united. how can that be wrong?


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

i was looking for one with the middle finger held high, but this one goes out to my br5others and sisters that are dedicated to their jobs. not reliant on some douche con. that could give two ****s about them.:thumbsup:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

big2bird said:


> I have socks that old.:laughing:


lucky me. i get to work with you old timers. its all good. i have been told by your era that you forgot more than i know.. lucky me you guys that share the trade with the future i give you hats off.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

cl219um said:


> lucky me. i get to work with you old timers. its all good. i have been told by your era that you forgot more than i know.. lucky me you guys that share the trade with the future i give you hats off.


We have to share all that knowledge, that is the arrangement. Someone showed us back in the day. :thumbsup:

One day, you will realize you are the old timer. :laughing:


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

All I can say is "Union,Yes."


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

cl219um said:


> this thread started as a pro union post by me, and remains. i hope by all the negativity by non union employers and management that this post will be viewed by people interested in the trade as useful as possible. if you want to work in the field and be relived of your job by attrition rather than a new strong back i believe the union is the place for you. whatever route you go, good luck. when you decide to be in this field for the long run, you are always welcome imo. if you are someone who wants to jam yourself into the trade and not afraid of slamming your coworker.... maybe the union isnt the place for you. brother up. in it together. united. how can that be wrong?


So you are either trolling without knowing .

Or you have a really small penis.

I'm thinking both.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

*all hands....*



cl219um said:


> brother up. in it together. united. how can that be wrong?


It _isn't _Cl

In fact, there's probably no better time in our economic history to be instigating the sentiment of collectivism

It's been my stance all along the good ship _skilled labor _ is slowly taking on water, listing astarboard.... 

Man the helm! 

Us old rats residing in the bilge know it ends badly for us _first_, man the yards before the pirates of capitalism scuttle us all!

~CS~


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> So you are either trolling without knowing .
> 
> Or you have a really small penis.
> 
> I'm both.


You have issues. The sad part is you don't know it yet.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

big2bird said:


> You have issues. The sad part is you don't know it yet.


No.... he doesn't know.

But it's obvious to everybody else. :laughing:


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

mr hands said:


> No.... he doesn't know. But it's obvious to everybody else. :laughing:


Says the guy who have several meltdowns for an entire forum to see!


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> You have issues. The sad part is you don't know it yet.


:sleeping:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> So you are either trolling without knowing .
> 
> Or you have a really small penis.
> 
> I'm thinking both.


It gets the job done. I have two great kids and wife, Insurance, house, cars, and when I am working at home, get to sleep in my own bed. There currently is some work here and am happy to be at home. Taking the family to Disney this December. Kind of living the dream. Glad I worked hard to get where I am. If you are trying to steal my thunder, good luck trying. Worked overtime for a good stretch out of town last winter, 200 miles away from my family. If you think I didn't earn this trip to Florida, you can suck my little penis. What are we twelve?


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> So you are either trolling without knowing .
> 
> Or you have a really small penis.
> 
> I'm thinking both.


Guess I haven't stared at others to know any better...****.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Stop the _ego_?

Ok, i'll play....

This is what you union folks need to realize, and need to _openly _express to gain support

You are simply _no better or worse_ than your non union counterparts

You are just.......*unionized*

~CS~


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

cl219um said:


> It gets the job done. I have two great kids and wife, Insurance, house, cars, and when I am working at home, get to sleep in my own bed. There currently is some work here and am happy to be at home. Taking the family to Disney this December. Kind of living the dream. Glad I worked hard to get where I am. If you are trying to steal my thunder, good luck trying. Worked overtime for a good stretch out of town last winter, 200 miles away from my family. If you think I didn't earn this trip to Florida, you can suck my little penis. What are we twelve?


Yes and that's why you are over compensating by trolling.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

cl219um said:


> Guess I haven't stared at others to know any better...****.


Oh who is twelve now.

I will now stoop to your level...

Your mom didn't think I was a **** last night!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I think i'll keep mom home at night from now on....:no::whistling2:....~CS~


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