# Backfeeding GFCI breaker for a generator and no interlock??



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

rrolleston said:


> I tried telling a customer that he can't back feed a GFCI breaker and needs to have an interlock kit so that it can be considered a safe install and I guess I lost that job. He hired someone that says it's safe to finish the job. Then after trying to convince him it was not legal. He tried saying that he had it installed when the inspector came and said it was OK with the inspector. LOL


Do the have real Electrical inspectors there?:blink::laughing:


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah I think he put that receptacle and breaker in after the inspector was there even though he said he put it in before the inspector was there. Either way I hate having someone mess with my work.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Heard you can smoke the GFCI if you backfeed it never tried it though.


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> Heard you can smoke the GFCI if you backfeed it never tried it though.


Yes, at a spa panel had a hand install incoming 240v and noodle to a 2p50 GFCI breaker,, smoked breaker immediately,........ (without a load). here's layout: 2pole 50 breaker feeding a hot tub panel in spa room , all new everything.... Instead of connecting wires to lugs, he connects them to GFCI breaker attempting to use GFCI as main breaker for hot tub sub panel, assuming protection for 120v circuit For lights and 120v circuit for radio and waterfall, (however , those were internally protected, unbeknownst to him ), upon turning power on to hot tub panel, GFCI breaker smoked itself immediately, Grrrrrrrr, thats a new breaker (outta his check $125), valuable 
Lesson he learned that day, but..........that's how ya learn


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Does a smoked breaker stay energized or does it stop working? Have seen a smoked gfci when someone accidently put 240 to it and it just stuck on. Would not trip anymore. But have never seen it happen to a breaker.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Not on the job anymore he said he found someone more qualified that says it going to work. Good for him. I get to sit back and wait I am sure I will hear the word around this hole in the wall town.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Probaly it will be a refresher for ya.,



> Heard you can smoke the GFCI if you backfeed it never tried it though.


Never backfeed or reverse run the GFCI breakers. The electronic control can get fried up like that.

To answer your question about smoke ., Oui I did see it once a while.


Merci,
Marc


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Been there, done that. Learned expen$ive lesson:

NEVER backfeed a GFCI breaker. NEVER!


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Well I did not think it would work and warned him it could ruin the breaker and that there should be an interlock kit installed with a standard breaker but it will be a nice lesson for him and his know it all electrician.

It's just a sugar house and I hope his drunken sons don't back feed the utility by mistake some night during an outage.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

just CYA in writing and keep the correspondence in a folder on file for the future lawsuit. make sure you use the words "life threatening" and "code violation by others".


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

FWIW never backfeed any device that is marked with line and / or load terminals.

It is bad voodoo and a code violation.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

How does it hurt the circuitry? I mean, the line and load aren't connected through the circuit board, they are connected like any breaker. I agree it shouldn't be done, but I can't see how it would damage it. All I can imagine is that when it trips, it de-energizes the sensing circuit, because power is on the wrong side of the gap.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> How does it hurt the circuitry? I mean, the line and load aren't connected through the circuit board, they are connected like any breaker. I agree it shouldn't be done, but I can't see how it would damage it. All I can imagine is that when it trips, it de-energizes the sensing circuit, because power is on the wrong side of the gap.


I had the same questions but was not as curious.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I had people buy the Honda inverter generators but refuse to pay for the interlock. Go figure. You are on your own pal.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Going out to swap out the meter main panel because of a manufacturing defect and I am not going to reinstall the back feed setup. Wish me luck. Will just l say its not my work and its not safe so I am not installing it in the new panel.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Why backfeed the GFCI, I was backfeeding the AC disconnects or dryer outlets in the days after the hurricane.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Why backfeed the GFCI, I was backfeeding the AC disconnects or dryer outlets in the days after the hurricane.



Did those all turn into generator jobs?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Did those all turn into generator jobs?


The better half of them requested a proper lockout/ inlet install when I have more time. It was good cash for a while, I was charging $250 to $350 for a twistlock, 25' of 12/3 nm for a temp tie in.Did 10 to 12 of them a day.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Shockdoc said:


> The better half of them requested a proper lockout/ inlet install when I have more time. It was good cash for a while, I was charging $250 to $350 for a twistlock, 25' of 12/3 nm for a temp tie in.Did 10 to 12 of them a day.


I think i would like to do something to prevent a back feed maybe pull the meter and cover the tabs to be safe.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

rrolleston said:


> I think i would like to do something to prevent a back feed maybe pull the meter and cover the tabs to be safe.


I simply turned the mains off, black tape is extra.

It was proven to me it is impossible to backfeed the grid from a 7500kw genny, on the one service where I forgot to shut the main, the genny breaker instantly tripped when I turned it on. There is no way it will remain on with the load of the house and the load of the xformer windings and whatever else is tied off that string. The concern that the HO could stupidly turn the main on once power is restored without disconnecting the genny first is the only one I have, but they where all instructed on what to do once power gets restored on their block and a few called to get refreshed. No explosions , fires or deaths.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Older GFCIs worked just fine when they were backfed, but did not provide any protection. Newer ones won't work when they are backfed, but I don't think that they suffer any damage.


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## stephenj99 (Dec 27, 2012)

Has any of you had problems putting gfi protection on ceiling fans and or general lighting circuits? Cause i sure am. I try to avoid gfi's and ceiling fans at all cost bc of past experience, but now i have a situation where i have to make it work and i'm already having problems.


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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

The receptacle can be back fed with out damage to receptacle(won't function properly ), but if you backfeed a breaker, it will fry like an egg,


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

LegacyofTroy said:


> The receptacle can be back fed with out damage to receptacle(won't function properly ), but if you backfeed a breaker, it will fry like an egg,


Try telling a customer my customer that installed it and is determined to use it. I will just wait and see when the power goes out and if I hear about it I will I just laugh at them and hand up the phone.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Thought for sure I had this guy talked into doing it the right way but guess he is set on doing it his way. Good thing all customers are not like this.


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## Promethius (Jan 1, 2013)

Shockdoc said:


> Why backfeed the GFCI, I was backfeeding the AC disconnects or dryer outlets in the days after the hurricane.


How do you backfeed AC disconnects? All the ones I've seen are 240V only. You using the ground for the neutral or are the AC's in your area 120/240V?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Promethius said:


> How do you backfeed AC disconnects? All the ones I've seen are 240V only. You using the ground for the neutral or are the AC's in your area 120/240V?


He is a rebel, rules are for fools. The Making of a Hack


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## Promethius (Jan 1, 2013)

BBQ said:


> He is a rebel, rules are for fools. The Making of a Hack


I don't mind rigging something up during an emergency, I am just wondering how he did it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Promethius said:


> How do you backfeed AC disconnects? All the ones I've seen are 240V only. You using the ground for the neutral or are the AC's in your area 120/240V?


yes, using the ground as a neutral. Good as long as it's not type AC cable.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes I would also not be against rigging something up during an emergency but not a permanent new install. Have done the same thing to keep my family warm in power outages.


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> The better half of them requested a proper lockout/ inlet install when I have more time. It was good cash for a while, I was charging $250 to $350 for a twistlock, 25' of 12/3 nm for a temp tie in.Did 10 to 12 of them a day.


Wow!
Sweet $$$


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