# Code violation?



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Why are you doing it like this?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

It would just be a switch at that point......wouldn't matter what size breaker you used as long as it was at least 50 amps


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Majewski said:


> Why are you doing it like this?


Had to use a larger breaker at times when changing out panels.....existing wire wouldn't fit in the matching breaker


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Perfectly fine, as spec said.

You only need the main breaker if you are going to have more than 6 circuits, FWIW.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Just curious as to why. Not saying an opinion for or against.:thumbup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I assumed it was because many small panels have 100A main breakers as a minimum.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Why bother with the 100 amp breaker?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Why bother with the 100 amp breaker?


It could be a 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 55, or 50 it doesn't matter. If the wire fits it works. It just has to be at least a 50 amp for a disconnect.

If you wanted you could use a 200 amp breaker. As long as your panel buss is rated for it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

drspec said:


> It could be a 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 55, or 50 it doesn't matter. If the wire fits it works. It just has to be at least a 50 amp for a disconnect.
> 
> If you wanted you could use a 200 amp breaker.


I was typing faster than thinking, should be why use a main breaker panel instead of main lug?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I was typing faster than thinking, should be why use a main breaker panel instead of main lug?


Since it's a detached garage, he will need a main disconnect if there are more than 6 circuits.


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## Dash Dingo (Mar 3, 2012)

Majewski said:


> Just curious as to why. Not saying an opinion for or against.:thumbup:




Found one laying on top of a panel at another job.
The 12 ckt sub was brand new except for it had a KO punched out and I could not return in, whoops on a previous job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dash Dingo (Mar 3, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Why bother with the 100 amp breaker?




Been rolling around in the truck for to long.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I was typing faster than thinking, should be why use a main breaker panel instead of main lug?


Sometimes a panel package with a few breakers tossed in is cheaper than a MLO.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Sometimes a panel package with a few breakers tossed in is cheaper than a MLO.


Yeah, a lot of times a main breaker panel is cheaper than the same panel in MLO. I remember Peter D had 50 extra main breakers because he would buy the cheaper main breaker panel and remove it for a spare.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, a lot of times a main breaker panel is cheaper than the same panel in MLO. I remember Peter D had 50 extra main breakers because he would buy the cheaper main breaker panel and remove it for a spare.


That's something I like to do too.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I forget about the packages the big box places sell for cheap.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

But I think only having a 50 amp feed would be a violation. Iirc anything over 2 circuits requires a 60 amp feed.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

mbednarik said:


> But I think only having a 50 amp feed would be a violation. Iirc anything over 2 circuits requires a 60 amp feed.


Are you saying that's in the NEC? I've never seen it. I have fed sub-panels with 30A using abandoned dryer cables.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Yes, I'll find an code section when I get in the office. Chapter 2 somewhere.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I believe you are referring to 225.39. Mind you that only requires the disconnect to be rated 60 amps


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here is the article




> 225.39 Rating of Disconnect. The feeder or branch-circuit
> disconnecting means shall have a rating of not less than the
> calculated load to be supplied, determined in accordance
> with Parts I and II of Article 220 for branch circuits, Part III
> ...


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Yes that is what I was thinking of. Thanks for the clarification.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I believe you are referring to 225.39. Mind you that only requires the disconnect to be rated 60 amps


I don't understand, please explain.

Are you saying that I can't feed a MLO subpanel with 10-3 and a 30A breaker?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I am saying that the code requires a 60 amp disconnect not feeder. For some reason it says disconnect OR feeder must be rated 60 amps. I have never been able to get an answer as to why.

As I see it you can have a 30 amp breaker feeding 10/3 to a garage but the disconnect out at the garage must be rated 60 amp.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I will add that I have never met anyone where the inspector red tagged the install when there wasn't a 60 amp disconnect.

I wrote a proposal to try and correct this but their response was-- NO, the way it is written is correct


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I am saying that the code requires a 60 amp disconnect not feeder. For some reason it says disconnect OR feeder must be rated 60 amps. I have never been able to get an answer as to why.
> 
> As I see it you can have a 30 amp breaker feeding 10/3 to a garage but the disconnect out at the garage must be rated 60 amp.


 So in the scenario I asked about feeding a MLO subpanel with 10-3 and a 30A breaker, it would not be code compliant? But it would be code compliant if I added a 60a breaker to that MLO panel?

I am talking about a sub panel inside of the house, not a detached garage.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Well here's a code that makes no sense to me!


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## Pharon (Jan 20, 2014)

* deleted post*


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

HackWork said:


> So in the scenario I asked about feeding a MLO subpanel with 10-3 and a 30A breaker, it would not be code compliant? But it would be code compliant if I added a 60a breaker to that MLO panel?
> 
> I am talking about a sub panel inside of the house, not a detached garage.


Art. 225.39 would not come into play for a sub panel in a house. You can have a 15 amp sub panel there if you want-- no problem. I was talking about the detached garage because I thought that was what the op was saying.

My initial response was to mbednarik's post about this issue to a garage.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Well here's a code that makes no sense to me!


Nor to me either. I have asked many people and no one wants to deal with it or can explain it


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Art. 225.39 would not come into play for a sub panel in a house. You can have a 15 amp sub panel there if you want-- no problem. I was talking about the detached garage because I thought that was what the op was saying.
> 
> My initial response was to mbednarik's post about this issue to a garage.


I see, thanks.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I see, thanks.


I got some calls in on this issue -- lets see what happens


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Make it happen D man!


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