# Charging to come out to give estimates?



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm seriously thinking about charging a small fee like $20 even if they are in my town. An estimate takes time, fuel and wear and tear on my vehicle. If I'm given the job then ofcorse the fee is waived.

I know Lowes and HomeDepot charge a fee to come out for estimates so why don't we?

I had Lowes install carpet in my house but i needed my steps carpeted so they had to come out and estimate and it cost $35.

Do you charge for estimates?


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

lovethetrade said:


> Do you charge for estimates?



The time is figured into annual OH. 

keep track of the non-billable hours.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> The time is figured into annual OH.
> 
> keep track of the non-billable hours.


Lets say I lose 3 estimates a week X 1.5 hrs roundtrip per estimate thats 18 hours a month 216 hours a year wasting time with tire kickers


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

It has always been Free Estimates.. just incorporate the cost of doing business into the jobs you land..

IMO.. the Free part will never change.. better to accept it and move on..

Lowes and HD charge for the estimate because they can.. being a multi billion dollar company does have its perks..


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> Lets say I lose 3 estimates a week X 1.5 hrs roundtrip per estimate thats 18 hours a month 216 hours a year wasting time with tire kickers


I wasted over (10) hours this past spring looking at (3) jobs for a large AC service company..

All (3) never came my way.. there won't be a 4th time.. :no:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> It has always been Free Estimates.. just incorporate the cost of doing business into the jobs you land..
> 
> IMO.. the Free part will never change.. better to accept it and move on..
> 
> Lowes and HD charge for the estimate because they can.. being a multi billion dollar company does have its perks..


I'm starting to agree with Peter D you say some funny stuff:laughing:

Lots of contractors charge for estimates and more and more that haven't are starting.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

lovethetrade said:


> Lets say I lose 3 estimates a week X 1.5 hrs roundtrip per estimate thats 18 hours a month 216 hours a year wasting time with tire kickers


So if you know what your hourly rate is multiply it by 216 and add that to your OH. You may or may not have to adjust your hourly rate too.

Or.... pre-qualify the tire kickers on the phone before wasting 216 hours per year.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> I'm starting to agree with Peter D you say some funny stuff:laughing:
> 
> Lots of contractors charge for estimates and more and more that haven't are starting.


Let me know when you start seeing a $20.00 estimate fee on Craigs list for electrical work.. :laughing:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> Let me know when you start seeing a $20.00 estimate fee on Craigs list for electrical work.. :laughing:


Craigslist? That's not where i get my work.

http://www.phcnews.com/march_09/ditoma.php

Read that link the whole thing it talks about plumbing contractors but it obviously doesn't matter what type of contractor you are.


"The question

Should contractors charge for estimates? Many do. But many contractors see this as a dilemma. They are fearful that if they charge for estimates they will lose work. But that’s not a certainty. However, if they don’t charge, they surely will lose money. If they never try to charge, they’ll never know if it’s possible. And if they persist in giving (not-so-free) free estimates, they shoot themselves in the foot by placing themselves in a competitive arena of fools."


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

This must have been quoted directly for you B4T:laughing::laughing::laughing:

"The answer

First, you must develop a higher testosterone level than the frightened dopes that really don’t belong in the contracting business because they are the people who create and/or support stupid business practices such as “free estimates.” There is not one of them who wouldn’t rather charge a fee for their estimating service. They are just too ignorant, fearful and stupid to do it."


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> I'm seriously thinking about charging a small fee like $20 even if they are in my town. An estimate takes time, fuel and wear and tear on my vehicle. If I'm given the job then ofcorse the fee is waived.
> 
> I know Lowes and HomeDepot charge a fee to come out for estimates so why don't we?
> 
> ...


Here is a trick they use they call you with a small problem a gfci triped in the kitchen so it takes you 5 minutes to find it then out comes the list they want a price it is allways less then $1,000 worth of work.

Do you charge them for the service call you just did and leave check in hand?.

Or do you incorporate that into your total price for all the work?


They are hopeing you will do that because they have no intention of calling you back


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> Craigslist?
> Read that link the whole thing it talks about plumbing contractors but it obviously doesn't matter what type of contractor you are.


 
:laughing::laughing:



Goodness, I need to stay out of this. 

Plumbing magazines :laughing::laughing:


Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> This must have been quoted directly for you B4T:laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> "The answer
> 
> First, you must develop a higher testosterone level than the frightened dopes that really don’t belong in the contracting business because they are the people who create and/or support stupid business practices such as “free estimates.” There is not one of them who wouldn’t rather charge a fee for their estimating service. They are just too ignorant, fearful and stupid to do it."


Everyone has their own style and beliefs on how to run a profitable business..

Find one that works for you and don't worry about the next guy..

I like the free estimate part because it gets my foot in the door and IMO a better chance of landing the job.. 

I have had people call me on the phone asking questions.. I tell them.. _"Let me come to your house and look at what you want to have done.. it is a free estimate.. so how can you go wrong"_

To some here that will sound dumb.. but it has been a good business practice for me.. :thumbsup:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Read the guys qualifications then maybe you won't laugh so much:thumbsup:
36 years experience. And what difference does it make if he is a plumber, painter, electrician, etc? We all give estimates and it costs time and money to do it.


----------



## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

Read this article Love of the trade. Its very good.

http://contractingbusiness.com/ar/cb_imp_13003/


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> Everyone has their own style and beliefs on how to run a profitable business..
> 
> 
> 
> I like the free estimate part because it gets my foot in the door and IMO a better chance of landing the job..


Sounds like your better qualified to run a thrift shop then a electrical business.

A free estimate gives you a better chance at getting the job?WOW


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> We all give estimates and it costs time and money to do it.


 
How does it cost you anything?


Your turn.....


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> How does it cost you anything?
> 
> 
> Your turn.....


Fuel? My time that I lost giving that estimate and not getting the job could have been used making money. Wear and tear on my truck.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> Fuel? My time that I lost giving that estimate and not getting the job could have been used making money. Wear and tear on my truck.


 
Then you have no clue how to sell, nor do you know how to properly charge an hourly rate.

Your time is better spent with a business coach, not going on estimates in a market you forgot to do research on and don't fully understand.

He quoted a plumbing article..:laughing::laughing::laughing:

You're killing me.:thumbsup:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> Sounds like your better qualified to run a thrift shop then a electrical business.
> 
> A free estimate gives you a better chance at getting the job?WOW


Sounds like your an ignorant sh!t slinger thats more qualified to run a pig farm. Try to make a point without bashing everyone that disagrees with you.

Free estimates give you more chances to get in front of a potential customer and show them the value of hiring you. Theres nothing wrong with charging for estimates but not charging also works very well.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Lets say I burn $20 in fuel a week on job estimates i didn't land. $1,040 just in fuel a year. Why should a contractor eat that cost?


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> Then you have no clue how to sell, nor do you know how to properly charge an hourly rate.
> 
> Your time is better spent with a business coach, not going on estimates in a market you forgot to do research on and don't fully understand.
> 
> ...


I have no clue how to sell because I lose jobs? So you don't lose any jobs nice:thumbsup:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> Lets say I burn $20 in fuel a week on job estimates i didn't land. $1,040 just in fuel a year. Why should a contractor eat that cost?


No way...:laughing::laughing:

I gotta stay up. This is gonna be a riot.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> Sounds like your an ignorant sh!t slinger thats more qualified to run a pig farm. Try to make a point without bashing everyone that disagrees with you.
> 
> Free estimates give you more chances to get in front of a potential customer and show them the value of hiring you. Theres nothing wrong with charging for estimates but not charging also works very well.


Fill me in to who I bashed expect B4T?

Let me know after your done bashing me


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Everyone has their own style and beliefs on how to run a profitable business..


I dare say none of your ideas will result in a profitable business. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> Read this article Love of the trade. Its very good.
> 
> http://contractingbusiness.com/ar/cb_imp_13003/


Yep very good article:thumbsup:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> Lets say I burn $20 in fuel a week on job estimates i didn't land. $1,040 just in fuel a year. Why should a contractor eat that cost?


If your eating those cost its because you failed to properly calculate your overhead and billable hours.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

gold said:


> If your eating those cost its because you failed to properly calculate your overhead and billable hours.


Yo trade, put the plumbing magazine down, and listen to Gold.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> Yo trade, put the plumbing magazine down, and listen to Gold.


Put his d ick down and then maybe I'll listen to you:laughing:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Oh, you'll go far.

Pm me when your ready to sell your stuff.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> Fill me in to who I bashed expect B4T?
> 
> Let me know after your done bashing me


You're not bashing me.. :no:

You asked a question and a tried on a few occasions to answer it the best way I can..

So get smart mouth instead and sound like an asshole.. I wish you luck..


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> You're not bashing me.. :no:
> 
> You asked a question and a tried on a few occasions to answer it the best way I can..
> 
> So get smart mouth instead and sound like an asshole.. I wish you luck..


I'm sorry I hurt your feelings saying you should run a thrift shop:laughing::laughing:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Trade, when the phone rings a sale is made.

Either you sold the customer on you and your services, or they sold you on why they don't want you.

Don't let them sell you, you sell them.



That's all you need to know to be successful.


Good luck.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I dare say none of your ideas will result in a profitable business. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:



How about yours...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> How about yours...:laughing::laughing:


I already told you I'm a self employed electrician, not running a profitable business. Nice try though. :thumbsup:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> How about yours...:laughing::laughing:


I would hire Peter D any day if I wasn't an electrician.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> I would hire Peter D any day if I wasn't an electrician.


Ya but he is a butcher,,

At least i will install a 200 amp service in 2" pipe all copper and charge you $1,000 more....:blink::laughing::laughing:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Ok forget what the plumbers say:laughing: here's what an electrical company says (not mine)

http://www.prolectricllc.com/blog/tag/trip-fees


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

"
There are companies that do not charge a trip fee. But in the end they will get their money by charging more for the repair. If they don't they will not be in business very long."

Yeah, he's full of it.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> "
> There are companies that do not charge a trip fee. But in the end they will get their money by charging more for the repair. If they don't they will not be in business very long."
> 
> Yeah, he's full of it.


Why is he full of it? Because you give free estimates and lose lots of money?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Ya but he is a butcher,,
> 
> At least i will install a 200 amp service in 2" pipe all copper and charge you $1,000 more....:blink::laughing::laughing:


OK Harry, if that's what makes you all warm and fuzzy inside. :laughing: If you come in $1000 higher on a service, you won't be doing very many of them. :no:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

$39 trip charge

http://www.keepaustinwired.com/repair_services.html


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

lovethetrade said:


> I'm seriously thinking about charging a small fee like $20 even if they are in my town. An estimate takes time, fuel and wear and tear on my vehicle. If I'm given the job then ofcorse the fee is waived.
> 
> I know Lowes and HomeDepot charge a fee to come out for estimates so why don't we?
> 
> ...


If someone wants an estimate on a $1500 or more job, no we will not charge, however if it is under the $1500 then it is a service call and many charge from $90 plus just to get to the home and then quote the cost of doing the job or repair

Sears came to look at my washer, they charged my credit card $90 before they would come and give a price, and when the serviceman arrived he took 5 minutes to tell me the repair would be $370 
And if I accepted the quote the $90 would be applied to the $370

When your in business and have all the overhead and operating expenses to meet every day you had better charge for everything you do.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> Why is he full of it? Because you give free estimates and lose lots of money?


I give free estimates and close 90% of the leads I run. If your having a problem closing your leads maybe you should address that instead.


----------



## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Peter D said:


> OK Harry, if that's what makes you all warm and fuzzy inside. :laughing: If you come in $1000 higher on a service, you won't be doing very many of them. :no:


I think this is Harry's attempt at sarcasm.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Peter D said:


> OK Harry, if that's what makes you all warm and fuzzy inside. :laughing: If you come in $1000 higher on a service, you won't be doing very many of them. :no:


Bullsh!t


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> I think this is Harry's attempt at sarcasm.


Maybe it is. I'm never really sure about anything he posts. I think he might be a drunk. :drink:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> I give free estimates and close 90% of the leads I run. If your having a problem closing your leads maybe you should address that instead.


Because I want to charge a fee to come out and give an estimate I have a problem closing leads?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

gold said:


> Bullsh!t



Absolutely brilliant analysis! :no: If you have 3 quotes all within a few hundred dollars, then Mr. Pipe and Copper rolls in and he's $1000 higher, that's not going to make a difference?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> I'm sorry I hurt your feelings saying you should run a thrift shop:laughing::laughing:


Good to see you have all the answers and are able to judge people over the Internet..

You should write a book and share all the knowledge that is lodged in the brain of yours and dying to get out.. :no:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Good to see you have all the answers and are able to judge people over the Internet..


Does calling me a rookie count on that "judging people over the internet" thing?


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> Lets say I lose 3 estimates a week ... :


I Inferred by your post that you were considering charging for estimates because you wanted to be compensated for your lost time and you considered time spent on estimates for jobs you don't get lost time. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> Good to see you have all the answers and are able to judge people over the Internet..
> 
> You should write a book and share all the knowledge that is lodged in the brain of yours and dying to get out.. :no:


I just judge you by reading your responses to Peter D's threads and I agree you say some strange things. That's all.:laughing:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Absolutely brilliant analysis! :no: If you have 3 quotes all within a few hundred dollars, then Mr. Pipe and Copper rolls in and he's $1000 higher, that's not going to make a difference?


If Mr pipe and copper creates a better customer experience and shows a better value he has an equal or better chance of winning that job.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Does calling me a rookie count on that "judging people over the internet" thing?


I was looking at the pictures of the screws in the wrong place and the wrong way to demo a panel and the wrong way to use space on a mounting board..

So YES.. I can say those are rookie mistakes since pictures don't lie..

Now you can call me a troll as a reply.. :no::laughing:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Please stop the fuc king fa ggotry in this fuc king forum its soo fuc king old. 

This stupid **** is what caused this forum to suck the last half a year stfu stop the sh!t slinging.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> I Inferred by your post that you were considering charging for estimates because you wanted to be compensated for your lost time and you considered time spent on estimates for jobs you don't get lost time. Correct me if I am wrong.


Again..... you don't lose any jobs? If you do you better rethink your ways of closing your leads


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I was looking at the pictures of the screws in the wrong place and the wrong way to demo a panel and the wrong way to use space on a mounting board..
> 
> So YES.. I can say those are rookie mistakes since pictures don't lie..
> 
> Now you can call me a troll as a reply.. :no::laughing:


Nah, we've been down that road already. Your critiques are foolish and stupid. I offer up a challenge for you. Post some pics of service changes that you do. :thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

gold said:


> If Mr pipe and copper creates a better customer experience and shows a better value he has an equal or better chance of winning that job.


And I agree. But if he's bidding against 3 guys pricing SEU cable, it's going to be a tough sell.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> I just judge you by reading your responses to Peter D's threads and I agree you say some strange things. That's all.:laughing:


So that makes (2).. the number of people who say I say "strange things"..

There would be (3) if Hackwork was still with us.. :laughing:

But the rest of the members of this forum don't share those views since I don't see any posts like yours..

You will have to wait till the morning so BBQ can chime in and say something sarcastic.. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

The article by Charlie Greer that James posted is a good one. I had a call this week from someone that needed a quote for his home purchase qualification process. These are to give a written quote to a bank for someone who doesn't own the home. It's a non-sale. He didn't want to pay the small service charge. I have little doubt he'll find a few guys to provide the quote. Small service charges can help in qualifying solid leads IMO.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Lol this thread went off the tracks what a suprise on ET:laughing:

The typical ET thread lasts 1 - 2 pages then falls off the track.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Nah, we've been down that road already. Your critiques are foolish and stupid. I offer up a challenge for you. Post some pics of service changes that you do. :thumbsup:


Too bad they are all true.. nice try at the song n dance.. but you need to more your feet faster.. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> But the rest of the members of this forum don't share those views since I don't see any posts like yours..


Add that to the list of silly things that you say. :laughing:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> Again..... you don't lose any jobs? If you do you better rethink your ways of closing your leads


Your response to what you quoted doesn't make sense. Try again.

You quoted me answering your question and I said yes I assumed ... Your response makes no sense. I'm sure its me not you but please help me make sense of your last post.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Too bad they are all true.. nice try at the song n dance.. but you need to more your feet faster.. :laughing:


Just as I thought. I challenged you and you backed down. No surprise there.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> So that makes (2).. the number of people who say I say "strange things"..
> 
> There would be (3) if Hackwork was still with us.. :laughing:
> 
> ...


Ehh I don't care about the kid **** that goes on here. You can call me a hack, a jack, a d ick, a prick whatever you want. At the end of the day I have money in my pocket and my phone rings daily for work.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Add that to the list of silly things that you say. :laughing:


The truth will set you free.. but keep trying to wiggle out of a rock and a hard place.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> Your response to what you quoted doesn't make sense. Try again.
> 
> You quoted me answering your question and I said yes I assumed ... Your response makes no sense. I'm sure its me not you but please help me make sense of your last post.


ditto:whistling2:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> The truth will set you free.. but keep trying to wiggle out of a rock and a hard place..


I do give you credit. You are a really good troll. You troll better than most of the professional trolls ever could.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> E At the end of the day I have money in my pocket and my phone rings daily for work.


That's all that really matters. A lot of guys here are all talk and no action, like B4T.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Peter D said:


> And I agree. But if he's bidding against 3 guys pricing SEU cable, it's going to be a tough sell.


I'm not being argumentative with you Petey but I mentioned 2 things;

customer experience
value

I'm pretty certain you understand the concept of value based on other post, but do you really understand what customer experience is and how you influence it?

My point is a properly influenced and structured customer experience that incorporates value will trump the other 3 bids.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

You mention Obama or the other forum and the mods rape you. B4T makes a post in ANY thread and it gets spammed to hell with this fukkery and it goes unchecked. Is he the new Forum jackass now? When ever he post we just say fukk the op and the original topic and run a train on him?


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> Lol this thread went off the tracks what a suprise on ET:laughing:
> 
> The typical ET thread lasts 1 - 2 pages then falls off the track.


It was a decent thread.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

gold said:


> I'm not being argumentative with you Petey but I mentioned 2 things;
> 
> customer experience
> value
> ...


I totally get all of that and I agree completely. I'm all about "good, better, and best" options based on customer needs and desires. 

Harry was saying I'm a butcher because I don't use copper and pipe. That's just dumb.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> You mention Obama or the other forum and the mods rape you. B4T makes a post in ANY thread and it gets spammed to hell with this fukkery and it goes unchecked. Is he the new Forum jackass now? When ever he post we just say fukk the op and the original topic and run a train on him?


Not sure spouting off obscenities like you did would make me want to agree with you:laughing:

It's the internet you shouldn't take it that serious. 99% of people on the internet are keyboard warriors.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

gold said:


> Is he the new Forum jackass now?


I keep telling everyone he is a troll. Laugh if you want, but he is. The body of evidence is pretty overwhelming that he is.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Peter D said:


> I keep telling everyone he is a troll. Laugh if you want, but he is. The body of evidence is pretty overwhelming that he is.


Just stop. Enough already. You Both have great post weather everyone agrees or not but the constant sh!t talking in every thread is tiresome.
:thumbsup:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> Just stop. Enough already. You Both have great post weather everyone agrees or not but the constant sh!t talking in every thread is tiresome.
> :thumbsup:


Where is south jersey are you? I lived in cape may county for 15+ years. Worked for Sawyer Electric, Bucks Electric, Anzelone Electric


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> Where is south jersey are you? I lived in cape may county for 15+ years. Worked for Sawyer Electric, Bucks Electric, Anzelone Electric


Salem Cumberland Gloucester Camden Burlington Mercer Cape Ocean and Atlantic.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

B4T said:


> It has always been Free Estimates.. just incorporate the cost of doing business into the jobs you land..
> 
> IMO.. the Free part will never change.. better to accept it and move on..
> 
> Lowes and HD charge for the estimate because they can.. being a multi billion dollar company does have its perks..



While I don't disagree.
'The Times they are a changin' '

My friend with a auto service station- charges when he hooks up the computer. 'Fee'-use me and the 'Fee' is waived.

Unfortunately,we gotta charge the 'tire kickers'.

They (the customer) need a little incentive.
And we (the contractor) have to train them like a dog.

There is a right and wrong way to do this,scare tactics,fire-union-what ever,is not correct.

Dazzle with brilliance-Baffle with BS-!

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets take our PROFESSION back !!!!

:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> OK Harry, if that's what makes you all warm and fuzzy inside. :laughing: If you come in $1000 higher on a service, you won't be doing very many of them. :no:


That is funny because i have no problem selling them..:thumbup:

You just have to be smooth...:laughing:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

leland said:


> While I don't disagree.
> 'The Times they are a changin' '
> 
> My friend with a auto service station- charges when he hooks up the computer. 'Fee'-use me and the 'Fee' is waived.
> ...


This is a box full of the sense you make.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

I wish I could get away with charging for preparing proposals. I sometimes decline to give a proposal. I simply ask if price is their number 1 consideration. If they answer yes, I simply thank them for calling and tell them that I will be among the highest priced so it is not worth the time for me to look at their job.​


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

gold said:


> This is a box full of the sense you make.


 
The box is empty. WTF?????


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You just have to be smooth...:laughing:


Let me translate. You instill fear in them that if they install anything less than copper wire, they are paying for a substandard job, and that any electrician who uses aluminum and/or SEU cable is a hack. I'm sure your "sales pitch" includes some of that fear mongering, right?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Let me translate. You instill fear in them that if they install anything less than copper wire, they are paying for a substandard job, and that any electrician who uses aluminum and/or SEU cable is a hack. I'm sure your "sales pitch" includes some of that fear mongering, right?


Nope not at all.

usually i can give a price right there looking so I know if i got the job before i leave ,.

,If i leave without the go ahead that means that they have others coming over to look and the last guy there has the best chance of getting the job


----------



## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

LK1 said:


> If someone wants an estimate on a $1500 or more job, no we will not charge, however if it is under the $1500 then it is a service call and many charge from $90 plus just to get to the home and then quote the cost of doing the job or repair
> 
> Sears came to look at my washer, they charged my credit card $90 before they would come and give a price, and when the serviceman arrived he took 5 minutes to tell me the repair would be $370
> And if I accepted the quote the $90 would be applied to the $370
> ...


 I don't feel that it's appropriate to charge a fee for an estimate even though I wish I could. Service repair companies charge a fee because there issues are isolated to that appliance in question. Once the repairman determines a cause he then explains to the customer what needs to be replaced. So, in most cases HO would dismiss the repair and do it themselves. Are service is similar but requires a lot more work.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

leland said:


> My friend with a auto service station- charges when he hooks up the computer. 'Fee'-use me and the 'Fee' is waived.


Your friend has the customer in front of his shop and not over the phone.. BIG difference..

The customer has a problem with his car.. it would be stupid for him to drive someplace else and break down on the road..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Nope not at all.
> 
> usually i can give a price right there looking so I know if i got the job before i leave ,.
> 
> ,If i leave without the go ahead that means that they have others coming over to look and the last guy there has the best chance of getting the job


No, I mean in when you're in a situation where it's an apples to oranges comparison. If you're the only guy who is selling a copper service, and the rest are aluminum in pipe or SEU, how do you sell them on the additional cost of copper?


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

It's a Wal*mart world, guys. 


Behave accordingly.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

gold said:


> You mention Obama or the other forum and the mods rape you. B4T makes a post in ANY thread and it gets spammed to hell with this fukkery and it goes unchecked. Is he the new Forum jackass now? When ever he post we just say fukk the op and the original topic and run a train on him?


Guys ask questions and you take the time to post legitimate information that works for you..

Some can't accept the message and the personal attacks start.. nothing new..

For every loud mouth that says I "should run a thrift shop".. there are many more who will read the posts and get some useful information out of it..

Some think reading a book will make you an instant success.. a plumber with (36) years in business said so.. :laughing:


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

CraigV said:


> It's a Wal*mart world, guys.
> 
> 
> Behave accordingly.


 If you believe that you already failed.


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

B4T said:


> Everyone has their own style and beliefs on how to run a profitable business..
> 
> Find one that works for you and don't worry about the next guy..
> 
> ...


Yes, you have to find out what works for you, and your right once you loose that phone contact, they are gone and on to the next guy

Around here, the flat rate guys ate our lunch a few years ago, and now dominate the market in this area, they do charge for estimates SOME TIMES not all the time so don't be fooled into thinking they charge all the time they are a fox when it comes to business, they also do not always charge the highest prices for their work, they do as you are suggesting make that customer contact and sell the job.

It's funny just this last week a few of the older area EC's were talking about how the area changed, our town had about 17 EC's a few years ago, then the market tanked and we went town to about 6 EC,s and now we have 4 active EC,s left two of them flat rate companies, and this is how the other areas near us have gone, the little one and 2 man shops are just not making it, anymore, with all the talk of what is better and what is right or wrong the simple fact is, you need to be making money to stay in business.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> If you believe that you already failed.


You piss me off when you make sense.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> Some think reading a book will make you an instant success.. a plumber with (36) years in business said so.. :laughing:



I was just showing you many contractors charge to come out and give an estimate. You think no one does and it's crazy to do so.

I said you should run a thrift shop because those places are all about giving customers deals which you are all about.:thumbsup:


----------



## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

LK1 said:


> Yes, you have to find out what works for you, and your right once you loose that phone contact, they are gone and on to the next guy
> 
> Around here, the flat rate guys ate our lunch a few years ago, and now dominate the market in this area, they do charge for estimates SOME TIMES not all the time so don't be fooled into thinking they charge all the time they are a fox when it comes to business, they also do not always charge the highest prices for their work, they do as you are suggesting make that customer contact and sell the job.
> 
> It's funny just this last week a few of the older area EC's were talking about how the area changed, our town had about 17 EC's a few years ago, then the market tanked and we went town to about 6 EC,s and now we have 4 active EC,s left two of them flat rate companies, and this is how the other areas near us have gone, the little one and 2 man shops are just not making it, anymore, with all the talk of what is better and what is right or wrong the simple fact is, you need to be making money to stay in business.


One of the largest union contractors in the area does about 5% residential service. If you want to schedule an appointment with them for residential service it's a little more than $200 which covers the first hour. If you don't agree to that charge on the phone, they don't dispatch the van.

Some may think they can't do that and will go out of business. They will be in business for years to come and they are cherry-picking many of the best customers.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Tiger said:


> One of the largest union contractors in the area does about 5% residential service. If you want to schedule an appointment with them for residential service it's a little more than $200 which covers the first hour. If you don't agree to that charge on the phone, they don't dispatch the van.
> 
> Some may think they can't do that and will go out of business. They will be in business for years to come and they are cherry-picking many of the best customers.


If there cherry picking then by default there not concerned with market saturation and that business model is effective.


----------



## HugoStiglitz (Apr 11, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> If you believe that you already failed.


Geeze, I might have to agree with you on this one (to some extent).


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm about to head out now and do one of those free estimates right now. Some convenience store lady wants a price on some new receptacles. It could be an $800.00 job or maybe not. I'm willing to take a risk and drive down there to see if I can sell this job.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I'm about to head out now and do one of those free estimates right now. Some convenience store lady wants a price on some new receptacles. It could be an $800.00 job or maybe not. I'm willing to take a risk and drive down there to see if I can sell this job.


Good luck.. I hope she has no dots.. :thumbup:


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> Good luck.. I hope she has no dots.. :thumbup:


Me too! :thumbup:


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

Tiger said:


> One of the largest union contractors in the area does about 5% residential service. If you want to schedule an appointment with them for residential service it's a little more than $200 which covers the first hour. If you don't agree to that charge on the phone, they don't dispatch the van.
> 
> Some may think they can't do that and will go out of business. They will be in business for years to come and they are cherry-picking many of the best customers.


Yup, if you want the best customers you will need to cherry pick and qualify your customers, let the guys that want to do social work and think flea market prices will win customers, and they are right, they can get a lot of work, at low pay and in many cases no pay, I would think guys that are afraid to charge, should not be in business for their own good, and the good of the rest of the trade, trying to make a decent living, to support their families.


----------



## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

This is if you are a T&M company.
For the guys that give free estimates that say to incorporate the cost in their price. Please see this example.
If your new to business and do not have a year or two under your belt to know how many you close or don't close, it could be a little hard to determine how much expense do you add into your price. For this example, we will only use time, no other factors.

Now, if my break even is $100.00 an hour and I want to make 20%. My price would be $125.00 an hour.

After a years time, I average that I do six estimates a day. I close 4 out of those six. Leaving 2 estimates that a day, that my time has to be accounted for.
Lets say that each estimate takes one hour of time. Getting there, doing the estimate, getting back at the shop.
That's 2 hours a day at $125.00. $125 x 2 = $250.00 a day.
$250.00 x 5 days a week = $1250 total for the week. 
$1250 x 50 weeks a year, = $62,500.00 

Now that $250.00 that you lost that day has to be covered by the people that do want your service, which in my opinion, is not fair to them. The four people are having to pay for the two customers that did not want your services.
$250.00 in lost time / by 4 customers = $62.50 that needs to be added to each customer who uses your service.

This is one reason I like trip charges. I do not want my paying customers having to pay for the tire kickers.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

CraigV said:


> It's a Wal*mart world, guys.
> 
> 
> Behave accordingly.





Mr Rewire said:


> If you believe that you already failed.


I respectfully disagree. 

The _majority_ (not all ) of people shop price over quality. Is that not true? It has been true in my life, in my experience. YMMV

The economy is in the tank. So the number of possible jobs is way down. True, or not? Again, maybe you're very busy.

If you have no real competition, charge what you want. Charge for estimates. You'll still get the work you would have gotten. But if the competition is estimating for free, and if your market is tough, then you are going to lose jobs right out of the gate to the free estimators. And yes, I fully understand that you often don't want the work if it's a "this is a free estimate, right?" kinda customer. Those jobs turn ugly way more often. 

But I also understand that the bank expects the mortgage payment every month, the fridge doesn't fill itself, and the truck's gas tank somehow winds up empty by Thursday. "What the market can bear" is a good way to charge. In good times, charge for estimates when you're booked 3 months out and the phone and email are ringing. When times are tough, and price is king, driving out for free is part of the cost of doing business.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

CraigV said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> The _majority_ (not all ) of people shop price over quality. Is that not true? It has been true in my life, in my experience. YMMV


 People may shop price but we "sell" quality. Price is a factor but it does not have to be the driving factor.


> The economy is in the tank. So the number of possible jobs is way down. True, or not? Again, maybe you're very busy.


 I don't care how many jobs are out their what I focus on is the job I am bidding today and if I will be profitable.


> If you have no real competition, charge what you want. Charge for estimates. You'll still get the work you would have gotten. But if the competition is estimating for free, and if your market is tough, then you are going to lose jobs right out of the gate to the free estimators. And yes, I fully understand that you often don't want the work if it's a "this is a free estimate, right?" kinda customer. Those jobs turn ugly way more often.
> 
> *But I also understand that the bank expects the mortgage payment every month, the fridge doesn't fill itself, and the truck's gas tank somehow winds up empty by Thursday.* "What the market can bear" is a good way to charge. In good times, charge for estimates when you're booked 3 months out and the phone and email are ringing. When times are tough, and price is king, driving out for free is part of the cost of doing business.


 I was going to address each part of the paragraph but the section in bold tells me all I need to know.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> People may shop price but we "sell" quality. Price is a factor but it does not have to be the driving factor. I don't care how many jobs are out their what I focus on is the job I am bidding today and if I will be profitable.
> I was going to address each part of the paragraph but the section in bold tells me all I need to know.


My point is only that in every line of business, you have to address your market, your competition, and your customer. All of these aspects are different in different parts of the country, and they also change within these areas. You can always do what you want to do...it's your business...and if you are sucessful with a given model, there's no need to change it. But if you are charging for estimates and the phone isn't ringing, or you get "I'll call you back", and no callback, consider that this may be a factor.

Edit: I'm addressing only the issue of charging, or not, for estimates. Whether you estimate for free or charge for your time should have no bearing on the quality of work you offer, or the price of the job, other than possibly refunding estimate time when hired.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

CraigV said:


> My point is only that in every line of business, you have to address your market, your competition, and your customer. All of these aspects are different in different parts of the country, and they also change within these areas. You can always do what you want to do...it's your business...and if you are sucessful with a given model, there's no need to change it. But if you are charging for estimates and the phone isn't ringing, or you get "I'll call you back", and no callback, consider that this may be a factor.


 I could care less what my competition is doing. The problem with a phone that doesn't ring is the longer the time the more price becomes a factor not for the customer but for you. A desperate EC will throw sound busiuness pracdtices out the window just to make a buck when all they are doing is buying one more day to circle the bowl.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> I could care less what my competition is doing. The problem with a phone that doesn't ring is the longer the time the more price becomes a factor not for the customer but for you. A desperate EC will throw sound busiuness pracdtices out the window just to make a buck when all they are doing is buying one more day to circle the bowl.


 
Offering free estimates is neither unsound business practice nor desperation. It's just one possible tool for getting in the door. Sound business practice includes adjusting to the factors I've listed.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

CraigV said:


> Offering free estimates is neither unsound business practice nor desperation. It's just one possible tool for getting in the door. Sound business practice includes adjusting to the factors I've listed.



The whole free estimate thing started from a contractor that didn't know how to market himself and thought free estimates is the only way to lure customers in. Then it snowballed and others followed thinking that is the way to do business.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

CraigV said:


> Offering free estimates is neither unsound business practice nor desperation. It's just one possible tool for getting in the door. Sound business practice includes adjusting to the factors I've listed.


Why stop there with free estimates? Offer a free hotdog and soda or coffee and donuts with every estimate:laughing:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> This is if you are a T&M company.
> For the guys that give free estimates that say to incorporate the cost in their price. Please see this example.
> If your new to business and do not have a year or two under your belt to know how many you close or don't close, it could be a little hard to determine how much expense do you add into your price. For this example, we will only use time, no other factors.
> 
> ...


 
Without getting too involved, you're example was tailored to fit your point, and you're running a very inefficient business model. You know that, and that's why your post is structured the way it is.

Let me say this. You, and only you, for this point I am making, are using a trip charge as a way to "pre-qualify" people who may not be your ideal customer in the first place. 

If this is true, fine. 

Do you think it's possible to "pre-qualify" a customer without a trip charge? 

And do you think that a company who advertises, that they don't have a trip charge like their competition, would have an advantage of getting themselves in front of potential customers more, less, or the same as the companies who have a trip charge?


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> Why stop there with free estimates? Offer a free hotdog and soda or coffee and donuts with every estimate:laughing:


Laugh all you want, but,

Don't you hand out free business cards, free refrigerator magnets, pens with your name on them.......ect.


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> This is if you are a T&M company.
> For the guys that give free estimates that say to incorporate the cost in their price. Please see this example.
> If your new to business and do not have a year or two under your belt to know how many you close or don't close, it could be a little hard to determine how much expense do you add into your price. For this example, we will only use time, no other factors.
> 
> ...


There is no question that flat rate pricing is better, all the EC's in my area using it are growing, even with their trip charges, most of the customers with the ability to pay want good service.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

CraigV said:


> The _majority_ (not all ) of people shop price over quality. Is that not true? It has been true in my life, in my experience. YMMV


That is your target customer. 

Change your customer base, to people who want quality over price.

It is not easy and takes some time, but you'll be happier for it.

The tough thing about resi, is you don't have the repeat business to build this base quickly.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> Without getting too involved, you're example was tailored to fit your point, and you're running a very inefficient business model. You know that, and that's why your post is structured the way it is.
> 
> Let me say this. You, and only you, for this point I am making, are using a trip charge as a way to "pre-qualify" people who may not be your ideal customer in the first place.
> 
> ...


For me I'm not charging a trip charge to "pre qualify" I'm simply charging to cover costs of doing that estimate simple as that.

I also agree 100% why should a paying customer pay for my lost jobs. What other costs do you pass on to the new customers besides normal overhead and profit?


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

lovethetrade said:


> Why stop there with free estimates? Offer a free hotdog and soda or coffee and donuts with every estimate:laughing:


That's hack. Backrubs and a happy ending are where it's at.


FWIW, _nothing_ is free. Anyone who's walked this planet should understand that no business "absorbs" any incurred cost. It's all passed along, unless you incur it the day before you retire...


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> I also agree 100% why should a paying customer pay for my lost jobs.


Because that's what businesses do, and you have to, to survive.



lovethetrade said:


> What other costs do you pass on to the new customers besides normal overhead and profit?


Every cost of doing business you have, otherwise you ain't charging enough.
There is no, I can't pass this on, 

but there is, how can I be more effiecent so I don't have to pass on so much to the customer, which makes me a better value, over my competition.


----------



## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> Without getting too involved, you're example was tailored to fit your point, and you're running a very inefficient business model. You know that, and that's why your post is structured the way it is.
> 
> Let me say this. You, and only you, for this point I am making, are using a trip charge as a way to "pre-qualify" people who may not be your ideal customer in the first place.
> 
> ...


DNK, trust me when I say, my business is not running inefficient. To make that statement is ignorant without seeing what we do on paper.

*What I wrote was simply to help new guys figure what they need to charge if they are going to give free estimates.*

For me it all comes back to this article. 
How do you determine a flat rate for your trip charge? I say it should be $19, $29, $39, $49, $59, $69, $79 or $89. 
What kind of an answer is that? What about your break even-point, your overhead, your direct cost and your market statistics? 
Unlike the rest of your pricing, the trip charge isn't a factor of your break-even point, your direct costs, your overhead expenses, or anything else like that.Your trip charge is your "regulator." 
*Two Types of Contractors*
For the purpose of this discussion, we'll divide contractors into two groups. One group has all the work they can handle. The other group is short on work. 
If you have more work than you can handle, go with a trip charge in the higher range, such as $69, $79, or even $89. 
You might say, "If I do that, I'll lose half my customers!" That's the point. Because you have more work than you can handle, you can use a higher trip charge to discourage overly price sensitive consumers. 
If you're not in the position to lose a few customers, then you should go with something more moderate, such as $49. 
If you're really hurting for business, remember this: The lower your trip charge, the fewer hangups you'll get, and the more service you'll run. Go with a number on the lower end of the scale, such as $19 or $29. 
To this you might respond, "Go out to the house for $19? I'll go broke!" No, you won't. 
*The Pricing Strategy*
Most flat-rate pricing systems have two prices for every task. One is called the primary repair; the other is the secondary or additional repair. 
The primary repair is any repair priced somewhat higher than the same repair would be if it were a secondary or additional repair. 
It's more cost-effective for the service company to do as much as is needed on one call than it is to do the same amount of work over several trips. Therefore, you can pass the savings on to consumers in the form of lower prices for additional tasks. These are the secondary or additional repairs, which are priced lower than the same task when classified as a primary repair. 
If you're offering a cut-rate trip charge just to get in the door, you can recoup those expenses by incorporating them into the price of the primary repair. 
From a sales point of view, it helps me to get a higher average service call by offering customers an incentive to buy more now. I can say, "The more we do while we're here, the more you save." 
You might wonder, "What if we have a technician who's always just charging the minimum charge? Won't we lose money with a low diagnostic fee?" 
The answer is absolutely yes. Any one of your technicians who consistently collects only the diagnostic fee either needs some additional training or should be let go so he can work for a competitor and cost that company an arm and a leg in lost business and profits. 
Nearly 100% of the calls that I run with technicians involving non-working equipment result in our doing the repair. 
This isn't to be mistaken with people calling around looking for prices on replacement equipment. That's an entirely different conversation. I'm talking about people with nonworking equipment who are looking to have it repaired. 
My experience has been that by the time I get to their home, these customers have already done their price shopping. They want it repaired, and if they didn't think it would cost money, they wouldn't have called me out there in the first place. 
People calling around comparing service rates will often use your trip charge as the only factor in comparing your service prices with that of your competition. In other words, a cut-rate trip charge could actually convey the message that your service rates are lower than your competitions', when in reality, they may be considerably higher. 
It's funny. Your trip charge gives customers the least amount of information regarding your company, yet it influences their entire decision. Forget about the quality of your service. You could be sending people out on a prison work release program to do the work. However, they will never know it, because they based their entire decision on your trip charge. 
*The Incoming Price Inquiry*
How the incoming call for service is handled is vitally important. You don't want customers to be uncertain about what it costs to have a service technician out to the house. It's nice and easy to say, "For $x we'll send a tech out to look things over. At that time, you'll get a firm price on everything that needs to be done." 
That beats the daylights out of trying to explain hourly rates over the phone. Anything requiring a lengthy explanation should be simplified. It's too easy to confuse people, and a confused mind always says "no." 
*What to Call It*
Don't call your trip charge a diagnostic fee. That term leads to all kinds of unnecessary arguments. 

Take your pick from the following: 

Trip charge
Service charge
Service call fee
Minimum charge
Dispatch fee.
*Should You Waive It?*
If you incorporate all the costs associated with your showing up at the door and getting the job into the primary tasks, you can "waive" your trip charge if the work is done while you're there. Another way of wording the same thing is to say you'll "apply" the minimum charge to the work. Experiment with both and see which you're more comfortable using. Many of the discussions about your minimum charges go away when you're willing to waive the trip charge, so it can help you to book more calls. 
This is especially helpful if the person answering the phones isn't a particularly good closer. Waiving the trip charge makes justifying your price easier, and I'm all for taking the easiest route. 
*Some Final Words*
The trip charge is your "regulator." It allows the people taking the incoming calls to give simple answers to simple questions. If you need more calls, reduce it. If you have too many calls, jump it up a bit. Use the law of supply and demand to your benefit.

Do you think it's possible to "pre-qualify" a customer without a trip charge?* Yes.*

And do you think that a company who advertises, that they don't have a trip charge like their competition, would have an advantage of getting themselves in front of potential customers more, less, or the same as the companies who have a trip charge?[/quote] Yes and no. It depends on what type of customers you want.
We are on a higher scale on our rates. Many customers understand that nothing is free. We tell them we will waive the dispatch fee if, they choose us.
*This works for us. I'm not telling you to do what we do or its the only way.*


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

TheBrushman007

So what do you do in your experience with lost jobs do you ask for a check for the trip charge before you leave?


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> DNK, trust me when I say, my business is not running inefficient. To make that statement is ignorant without seeing what we do on paper.


Jim, I did not imply, that your current business is ineffiecent. I have no clue what you do. You read that wrong.

Your post of running a T&M business, is a very ineffecient way of running it. That is what I was referring to as being ineffecient. 

I sense you already knew, that the example you posted of running a T&M call is an inefiecent way of doing it. You posted that to prove your particular point of a T&M day, and one you beleive is how all T&M shops should run, just so you can prove that trip charges are better.

I am also saying that if you run a T&M business, in the fashion you posted, that the likely hood of doing well goes way down, unless you change a couple things.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Its raining and all our work is out doors except for a couple small jobs I got two guys out doing . I am taking an office cleanup day, so what are the rest of you business "experts" doing here posting on a thursday morning instead of working :laughing:


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Its raining and all our work is out doors except for a couple small jobs I got two guys out doing . I am taking an office cleanup day, so what are the rest of you business "experts" doing here posting on a thursday morning instead of working :laughing:


I am working.
:thumbsup:
I am currently chatting with leviton support concerning occ sensors to control bathroom exaust fans.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> Its raining and all our work is out doors except for a couple small jobs I got two guys out doing . I am taking an office cleanup day, so what are the rest of you business "experts" doing here posting on a thursday morning instead of working :laughing:


I don't need to lie like you I don't have any work lined up today but tommorow I do.:thumbsup::laughing:


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

I really am cleaning the office today :thumbup:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> Nearly 100% of the calls that I run with technicians involving non-working equipment result in our doing the repair.
> This isn't to be mistaken with people calling around looking for prices on replacement equipment. That's an entirely different conversation. I'm talking about people with nonworking equipment who are looking to have it repaired.


 
I think this is the part that is getting confused here. Most of us get 99% of our jobs, with equiptment not working.


I'd like to hear about the "replacing equiptment conversation".


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

dronai said:


> I think this is the part that is getting confused here. Most of us get 99% of our jobs, with equiptment not working.
> 
> 
> I'd like to hear about the "replacing equiptment conversation".


 Also keep residential and commercial seperate.:whistling2:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> I really am cleaning the office today :thumbup:


Love that 80's wood paneling:laughing:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> Also keep residential and commercial seperate.:whistling2:


 
*Substitute*- "Equipment not working" for power out, or troubleshooting, residential/comm.

And "equipment replacement", for Service changes, addtional lighting/plugs, etc.

Looks like the article, was from an appliance repair company.


----------



## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

lovethetrade said:


> TheBrushman007
> 
> So what do you do in your experience with lost jobs do you ask for a check for the trip charge before you leave?


Better yet take their credit card # and charge it before dispatching a truck roll.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

lovethetrade said:


> Love that 80's wood paneling:laughing:


The '80's was all about "dusty rose" (pink) walls, brass and lacquer furniture, and coke.


good times:no:


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

electricguy said:


> Better yet take their credit card # and charge it before dispatching a truck roll.


 
"Quick, write me a check before I come to my senses" :laughing:


----------



## srlaws (May 27, 2010)

I've never charged directly for an estimate, to me it's part of the overhead, but I don't give small estimates (under $1000) if it's over 30 miles from the office.


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

electricguy said:


> Better yet take their credit card # and charge it before dispatching a truck roll.


We always get the card approved before we dispatch the truck, the trip charge is in the bag, no more days of getting the old my husband has the check book, just bill me, and in your next life, I will send you one of my rubber checks.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Wow. A lot happened in this thread since the last time I was here. And without the **** slinging mostly. I like all the opinions here too and there is clearly two different very effective theories. IMO I think a lot of people overlook the fact that there is a large portion of most markets that don't want to pay that service fee. That market is not necessarily a "cheap" market. Loosing the opportunity to put yourself in front of that customer can cost you more then what you may loose in lost time. 

007
You gave the example that you loose 4 calls a week at a cost of $250. How many people choose not to use your service every week because you charge that fee? (based on my own experience I am going to say 4 but correct me if I am wrong) What is your average invoice amount and what is your close rate?
If you put yourself in front of those 4 and your closing at only 75% with a meager $600 average your loosing $1800.
I understand your point and I like your business model, just showing the other side.

Craig
You mentioned that the majority of the market shops price. Residential service speaking I completely disagree. Furthermore if your having those type of issues I recommended taking a more consultive approach and spend more time educating your customers. An educated customer is not motivated by price. 

Dnkldorf
You mention pre-qualifying customers. I think this is a bad idea because you may likely end up Pre-judging a very qualified lead. I can't tell you how many times customers tell me no one else would come out.

lovethetrade
You sarcastically suggested bringing hot dogs and a coke. I'm going to put that back on you. Why not? Hypothetically why not add value to your service before charging? Not only do I not charge for estimates but we do a complete evaluation before charging a penny when we give an estimate.
Check smoke bats, duct seal at service entrance, general wiring condition, plug tester, and a lot more, soon I will be adding thermal imaging, also included with the free estimate. Then we list recommended repairs and rate the level of importance so we can either arrange a maintenance schedule or remind them via email and send the occasional special offer.


The model that includes charging for estimates does work but don't assume that those of us who don't are undercharging bottom feeders working our way out of business.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I just checked Yellow Book and every ad for "Electrical Contractors" had free estimates is the job description..

Any consumer out there is going to go for the FREE estimate before paying a small fee no matter how you word it..

Smart advertising is all about buzz words and FREE will always be #1..

I also checked" Plumbing Contractors".. not one of them mentioned free estimates.. 

I guess their work is more cut and dry.. how much to repair a faucet.. running toilet.. or clogged drain..


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> I also checked" Plumbing Contractors".. not one of them mentioned free estimates..
> 
> I guess their work is more cut and dry.. how much to repair a faucet.. running toilet.. or clogged drain..


 
When you're up to your chin in runny sh!t, you'll pay pretty much anyone pretty much anything....:laughing:


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

gold said:


> Wow. A lot happened in this thread since the last time I was here. And without the **** slinging mostly. I like all the opinions here too and there is clearly two different very effective theories. IMO I think a lot of people overlook the fact that there is a large portion of most markets that don't want to pay that service fee. That market is not necessarily a "cheap" market. Loosing the opportunity to put yourself in front of that customer can cost you more then what you may loose in lost time.
> 
> 007
> You gave the example that you loose 4 calls a week at a cost of $250. How many people choose not to use your service every week because you charge that fee? (based on my own experience I am going to say 4 but correct me if I am wrong) What is your average invoice amount and what is your close rate?
> ...


There may be a big misunderstanding. About what it is to qualify a customer, you qualify a customer by checking their ability to pay, on service calls we ask for their card before we dispatch, if a project is over $700 we run a credit check before we start the project, we learned many years ago to qualify after we took a few high dollar losses. 

Operating without securing accounts may be ok for the side job guys who have good day income and benefits , but for those of us in business we need to operate on a professional level.


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

do you guys only charge an estimate for residential ?

i cant imagine any company paying me to give them a estimate


----------



## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

B4T said:


> I just checked Yellow Book and every ad for "Electrical Contractors" had free estimates is the job description..
> 
> *Any consumer out there is going to go for the FREE estimate before paying a small fee no matter how you word it..*
> 
> ...


Not true, thank God. I haven't figured out a nice way to say it, but what I'd like to say to people when Free Estimate is their primary motivation..."Some restaurants offer free coffee (or is it free refills? I don't drink coffee). Would you only choose to do business with restaurants that offer free coffee. Would that choice have excluded your favorite restaurant?"


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

If you want to charge for estimates go for it man, why do you need our approval...? I dont charge, and I am doing just fine.....acually I would even go a step further and say Im doing great. My chances of closing a deal is much much better when I meet the people face to face....thats when the charm kicks in....

But if you dont know how to work in your estimating time than just charge for it and see how it works out for you.... I for one would be really curious as to how it turns out for ya......


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Tiger said:


> Not true, thank God. I haven't figured out a nice way to say it, but what I'd like to say to people when Free Estimate is their primary motivation..."Some restaurants offer free coffee (or is it free refills? I don't drink coffee). Would you only choose to do business with restaurants that offer free coffee. Would that choice have excluded your favorite restaurant?"


You can't bring a restaurant into the debate.. different world..

Check the Yellow Pages where you are and let my know what you find..

I once tried to charge $20.00 for an estimate a few years back when my insurance rates doubled..

Even at that small fee.. I got people telling me they will call me back.. they never did..


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

LK1 said:


> There may be a big misunderstanding. About what it is to qualify a customer, you qualify a customer by checking their ability to pay, on service calls we ask for their card before we dispatch, if a project is over $700 we run a credit check before we start the project, we learned many years ago to qualify after we took a few high dollar losses.
> 
> Operating without securing accounts may be ok for the side job guys who have good day income and benefits , but for those of us in business we need to operate on a professional level.


Are you for real or just trolling?

You run a credit check???? Is that even legal? don't you need consent to do that? That is way too funny:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Hell by the time that credit report comes back I bet someone else did the job and got paid without paying for a credit check.

If some contractor came to my house and wanted to check my credit before he replaced a couple of GFI's I would laugh in his face and then slam the door in it.

I guess i am just a "side job guy who have good day income" and not professional because I don't credit check my service calls .


If someone had no intention of paying you they still may have good credit.
Get a lawyer to write you up a good contract.

Thanks for the laughs


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

B4T said:


> You can't bring a restaurant into the debate.. different world..
> 
> Check the Yellow Pages where you are and let my know what you find..
> 
> ...


 


B4T, it depends on the size of the job ! 

I would never go to a service call for free.


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Are you for real or just trolling?
> 
> You run a credit check???? Is that even legal? don't you need consent to do that? That is way too funny:laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> ...


Your the joke


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

LK1

do you charge companies (commercial) for a bid


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

dronai said:


> B4T, it depends on the size of the job !
> 
> I would never go to a service call for free.


A service call is $90.00.. an estimate for electrical work is free..

The difference is when I put on my tool belt it is never for free..


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

LK1 said:


> Your the joke


You posted that you ask the customer for his credit card information over the phone without ever meeting you.. :blink:

Who in their right mind would ever tell a complete stranger that information??

There is something wrong with what you are telling us..


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricalwiz said:


> LK1
> 
> do you charge companies (commercial) for a bid


 
I bet he never even saw the inside of a commercial job

That is the problem with threads like this.

The ones talking about charging for estimates,flat rate books,dispatch fees,getting credit info before they send a truck are service electricians.

They only reset breakers for little old ladys and don't do additions,new construction,commerical fit outs.

They are kinda disconnected to most of the electrical contracting work out there.


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Are you for real or just trolling?
> 
> You run a credit check???? Is that even legal? don't you need consent to do that? That is way too funny:laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> ...


For many years we used a credit card on service calls 
Where did you read a credit check for a service call? 

When they sign our contract we secure a credit check we already have the contract signed, there is no waiting, you appear to be the troll


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> There is something wrong with what you are telling us..


:yes: 


Run people's credit :lol:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

I think that what's getting confused here.

A larger job requires an estimate. I don't think builders, or landlords, will pay anyone to talk about a project.

That's when the selling starts. and

William Shatner has the "Charm" to win more jobs than the ugly guys.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

dronai said:


> I think that what's getting confused here.
> 
> A larger job requires an estimate. I don't think builders, or landlords, will pay anyone to talk about a project.
> 
> ...


Yea and as long as you are willing to give a DNA sample from you first born male you can get LK1 to install 3 ceiling fans in you home.....:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

LK1 said:


> For many years we used a credit card on service calls
> Where did you read a credit check for a service call?
> 
> When they sign our contract we secure a credit check we already have the contract signed, there is no waiting, you appear to be the troll


 


How much do you pay for a credit check ? 
*Actually, there was one Taliban family, I wished I'd ran a credit check on, and maybe security check.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

LK1 said:


> Where did you read a credit check for a service call?
> 
> When they sign our contract we secure a credit check we already have the contract signed, there is no waiting, you appear to be the troll


_ About what it is to qualify a customer, you qualify a customer by checking their ability to pay, on* service calls we ask for their card before we dispatch*, if a project is over $700 we run a credit check before we start the project, we learned many years ago to qualify after we took a few high dollar losses._


----------



## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

Ok, I've read through "most" of this, and see the points to both sides. I personally don't charge for estimates. I just don't think it would fly around here. I will say this...If a customer calls and ASKS if I give free estimates? I say "no I don't" and a few words later, hang up. I would never get that work. I know I do excellent work and I'm definitely not the cheapest.....


----------



## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

I think what LK1 is saying on the credit check, he is talking about large jobs, not service calls. I do not want to speak for him, but that's what I got out of it.

For the record, I'm not against free estimates. 

As business owners, we must do what we feel is best for our companies.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Whatevva said:


> Ok, I've read through "most" of this, and see the points to both sides. I personally don't charge for estimates. I just don't think it would fly around here. I will say this...If a customer calls and ASKS if I give free estimates? I say "no I don't" and a few words later, hang up. I would never get that work. I know I do excellent work and I'm definitely not the cheapest.....


Why kill a sale by saying the word NO.. and you never know if you would of got the job if you didn't spent the time to look at it.. IMO


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> I think what LK1 is saying on the credit check, he is talking about large jobs, not service calls. I do not want to speak for him, but that's what I got out of it.
> 
> For the record, I'm not against free estimates.
> 
> As business owners, we must do what we feel is best for our companies.


 
I wouldn't call $700 a large job.

And would you give your credit card number over the phone to some random guy you called to come over and do some work?


----------



## TheBrushMan007 (Nov 21, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> I wouldn't call $700 a large job.
> And would you give your credit card number over the phone to some random guy you called to come over and do some work?


Oops, I miss read.

If someone called me, no I would not.

If I called a business, depending what the business was, then yes.

IMO, I do not feel taking CC numbers would work in this area.
In certain parts of the country, I would guess, it could work, especially in large cities.

I always ask at the end of the conversation, "how will you be paying for todays service call, check,cash or CC?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

TheBrushMan007 said:


> I always ask at the end of the conversation, "how will you be paying for todays service call, check,cash or CC?


Some guys have been known to say.. _"pay me in cash and there is no sales tax".._..:whistling2:


----------



## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

B4T said:


> Why kill a sale by saying the word NO.. and you never know if you would of got the job if you didn't spent the time to look at it.. IMO


Because, for the first 6 years I quoted all of those jobs and never got a single one. People that ask that question are looking for the cheapest price out there, and are probably going to get 5 or 6 quotes and give the job to the CL electrician that's working for $40/hr. "He's licensed, right? Must be good then"


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

B4T said:


> Some guys have been known to say.. _"pay me in cash and there is no sales tax".._..:whistling2:


 thats one of the benifits of having your own business...


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

electricalwiz said:


> LK1
> 
> do you charge companies (commercial) for a bid


No we don't charge commercial accounts we have accounts with high rise fit up work and the office space fit up's can take a bit of time to review and bid.

We also don't charge to do large dollar residential work, but be do charge a small fee for service calls and the flat rate the work.

You do what works for you, and just make sure you know your cost of doing business is so you have a rate established.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Whatevva said:


> Because, for the first 6 years I quoted all of those jobs and never got a single one. People that ask that question are looking for the cheapest price out there, and are probably going to get 5 or 6 quotes and give the job to the CL electrician that's working for $40/hr. "He's licensed, right? Must be good then"


Anyone who calls me on the phone puts $$ signs on my pad where I write down the name and address..

I look at every call as someone standing in a doorway with a fist full of $100.00 bills in their hand..

I would rather waste my time and lose the job instead of sitting home saying what cheap jerks the customers are who call me..


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> Do you charge for estimates?


Only if we get the job:thumbsup:

I'd settle for free plans


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

B4T said:


> You posted that you ask the customer for his credit card information over the phone without ever meeting you.. :blink:
> 
> Who in their right mind would ever tell a complete stranger that information??
> 
> There is something wrong with what you are telling us..


For a service call they give us their credit card information and we dispatch the call, what are you having trouble understanding for over 20 years we have been accepting credit cards.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

LK1 said:


> For a service call they give us their credit card information and we dispatch the call, what are you having trouble understanding for over 20 years we have been accepting credit cards.


I understand it.. I just don't see it happening in the real world.. IMO


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Maybe you need to sell a little more up front before heading out to look at a job. I once read someone post on this site doing this, it has really helped me.

I start every conversation with, If your just looking for the cheapest price, we more than likely wont be. But I would be glad to give you a list of references of happy customers from 2 years ago, or 2 days ago. Im sure we can add you to that list.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

captkirk said:


> thats one of the benifits of having your own business...


Just be sure you dont get material under that cust name. We call that job "stock"


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

B4T said:


> I understand it.. I just don't see it happening in the real world.. IMO


I agree, I have seen you on this forum for years, but I would not give you my info.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

LK1 said:


> Operating without securing accounts may be ok for the side job guys who have good day income and benefits , but for those of us in business we need to operate on a professional level.


Side job guys? 

Welcome to the forum LK1, Your a smart guy. I don't run credit checks or cherry pick my customers by requiring a CC but I am the guy about take your lunch and devour your market share. I will be up north in a few more months I'll show you how we do it. 

My work is done here. :thumbsup:

Were growing like crab grass!!


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

captkirk said:


> If you want to charge for estimates go for it man, why do you need our approval...?


Is this directed at me?:blink:

I don't see anywhere in my initial thread post where i asked your approval that's insane.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

gold said:


> Dnkldorf
> You mention pre-qualifying customers. I think this is a bad idea because you may likely end up Pre-judging a very qualified lead. I can't tell you how many times customers tell me no one else would come out.


I have to disagree with you here.

I believe your phone skills have a lot to do with prescreening/prequalifying potential customers. 

If you got your chit together, you should be able to diagnose the person by the way they talk, by the questions they ask, how they found you, the phone number they are calling from, and the address of where they live.

You know, or at least should know, where the nice homes and upper class people live. You know where the government mandated section 8 and low income housing developments are. 

Just by understanding things like that, you can save money by not running dry calls, and better direct market yourself to the higher end folks.

IMO


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

B4T said:


> You posted that you ask the customer for his credit card information over the phone without ever meeting you.. :blink:
> 
> Who in their right mind would ever tell a complete stranger that information??
> 
> There is something wrong with what you are telling us..


 You need to move out of Mayberry . You think like a self employed electrician. :no:

People do billions of dollars worth of sales over the net and these are websites. When a customer calls my "business" they are not dealing with a stranger but my company. I have never had a problem getting the info to charge a CC over the phone because I didn't call them they called me.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> You need to move out of Mayberry . You think like a self employed electrician. :no:
> 
> People do billions of dollars worth of sales over the net and these are websites. When a customer calls my "business" they are not dealing with a stranger but my company. I have never had a problem getting the info to charge a CC over the phone because I didn't call them they called me.


More assine useless rambling from a failed business..... :shutup:


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> More assine useless rambling from a failed business..... :shutup:


 Are you still on that kick?:no: You must enjoy playing the fool.:jester:Sorry your business is not doing as well as mine but thems the breaks.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Wow, and I thought "democrat or republican" had dividing lines. That's got nuthin' on this!


----------



## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

I envy the guys that get CC approval in advance AND I envy the guys that do full free inspections (and I assume have wicked sales skills). I don't envy the other 98% that are running free estimates to anyone and everyone without sales skills. Been there, done that.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> I have to disagree with you here.
> 
> I believe your phone skills have a lot to do with prescreening/prequalifying potential customers.
> 
> ...


LOOK!! We can disagree without having a ****slinging contest. It's a proud day at ET.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> Are you still on that kick?:no: You must enjoy playing the fool.:jester:Sorry your business is not doing as well as mine but thems the breaks.


Yea that is why I am too busy to be online during the day but you somehow seem to be camped out here posting you blabber all day, every day :lol:


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Voltech said:


> Just be sure you dont get material under that cust name. We call that job "stock"


 I hang on to everything....and I mean everything....if the IRS ever calls me Im ready to dance ...... I only hope they call, i will shove every recipt up their ass.....


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Yea that is why I am too busy to be online during the day but you somehow seem to be camped out here posting you blabber all day, every day :lol:


Well it is not my fault your boss wont let you post from his computer. The nice thing about NOT being a one man show is I have employees out making me money so I don't have to be in the field all day.:thumbup:

Of course some days are total rain outs.
We went from clouds








to downpour in a few minutes









Fortunatly the check didn't get wet:thumbsup:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> I just checked Yellow Book and every ad for "Electrical Contractors" had free estimates is the job description..
> 
> Any consumer out there is going to go for the FREE estimate before paying a small fee no matter how you word it..
> 
> ...


The Yellow book for advertising:laughing: I haven't used a phone book in years they still make them?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> The Yellow book for advertising:laughing: I haven't used a phone book in years they still make them?


Yes.. they are still being used and LOTS of full page ads in there..


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> The Yellow book for advertising:laughing: I haven't used a phone book in years they still make them?


I get a ton of calls from yellowbook. No full page adds tho.


----------



## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Gold, from the calls you receive, how many looked you up knowing your name and just needed the number vs someone who had no idea who you were before?


----------



## LK1 (May 7, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> Gold, from the calls you receive, how many looked you up knowing your name and just needed the number vs someone who had no idea who you were before?


Your asking all the right questions, and you view on screening calls is on target, over the years these practices have worked well for us


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Not all strtagies will work in all areas. Some strategies work they just take more time in different areas .Some strategies just dont work in different areas . The best strategies will work anywhere. The challenge in business is finding those "best " strategies.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> Not all strtagies will work in all areas. Some strategies work they just take more time in different areas .Some strategies just dont work in different areas . The best strategies will work anywhere. The challenge in business is finding those "best " strategies.


 
:sleep1:


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> :sleep1:


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


>


:shutup:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> Not all strtagies will work in all areas. Some strategies work they just take more time in different areas .Some strategies just dont work in different areas . The best strategies will work anywhere. The challenge in business is finding those "best " strategies.


I love how you speak for the entire electrical industry when you make comments.:laughing:


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

lovethetrade said:


> I love how you speak for the entire electrical industry when you make comments.:laughing:


 add another to the list


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> add another to the list


 
:yawn: ......


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> Gold, from the calls you receive, how many looked you up knowing your name and just needed the number vs someone who had no idea who you were before?


Considering I have only been in business for myself for about 1 1/2 years Its fairly safe to say that most are cold calls. I should say tho not the first business I have ran nor the first yellow page adds I have placed. 

Size (of the add) doesn't always matter
Knowing your market does
Designing your add to match your market works
Use a professional marketing service to help you 
otherwise your throwing money away.

Sorry for the late response I was elsewhere.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> Considering I have only been in business for myself for about 1 1/2 years Its fairly safe to say that most are cold calls. I should say tho not the first business I have ran nor the first yellow page adds I have placed.
> 
> Size (of the add) doesn't always matter
> Knowing your market does
> ...


A yellow page ad is a waste of money. 98% of people google up electricians before they use a phone book. With computers and smart phones everyone just uses google. 

I see stacks of phone books left by mailboxes never to be picked up. They are rained on so much they just disintegrate into the ground:laughing:


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

lovethetrade said:


> A yellow page ad is a waste of money. 98% of people google up electricians before they use a phone book. With computers and smart phones everyone just uses google.
> 
> I see stacks of phone books left by mailboxes never to be picked up. They are rained on so much they just disintegrate into the ground:laughing:


Your Troll is Fail.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> A yellow page ad is a waste of money. 98% of people google up electricians before they use a phone book. With computers and smart phones everyone just uses google.
> 
> I see stacks of phone books left by mailboxes never to be picked up. They are rained on so much they just disintegrate into the ground:laughing:


Then there are many very stupid EC's out there who continue to pay big bucks year after year for full page ads in Yellow Pages.. :blink:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> Your Troll is Fail.


Aren't you the one who had a melt down last week about all the sh it on this forum and now you post this?


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> Then there are many very stupid EC's out there who continue to pay big bucks year after year for full page ads in Yellow Pages.. :blink:


If you don't know that the yellow pages is dead and has been for years then I don't know what to tell you.

Your money for the yellow pages ad is better off being spent on google adwords keywords like " your town electrician"

You also only pay when someone clicks on your website link.

Craigslist killed the newspapers and the internet killed the yellow pages.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

B4T said:


> Then there are many very stupid EC's out there who continue to pay big bucks year after year for full page ads in Yellow Pages.. :blink:


What kind of customers would you get advertising on craigslist? What kind of customers do you get from the yellow pages? Both hypothetical questions of course.

There is more then one way to advertise I'm just saying with some forethought Yellow pages can still produce.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

gold said:


> What kind of customers would you get advertising on craigslist? What kind of customers do you get from the yellow pages? Both hypothetical questions of course.
> 
> There is more then one way to advertise I'm just saying with some forethought Yellow pages can still produce.


They must produce or people would not still be buys full pages ads for many thousands every year..


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

gold said:


> What kind of customers would you get advertising on craigslist? What kind of customers do you get from the yellow pages? Both hypothetical questions of course.
> 
> There is more then one way to advertise I'm just saying with some forethought Yellow pages can still produce.


There are many ways to advertise on the internet and Craigslist is way down on the list for bottomfeeders.

1. SEO for your website
2. Google adwords
3. Youtube
4. Facebook

And the worst online methods in my opinion are Craigslist, Angieslist


----------



## bkdaniels (Apr 30, 2014)

Hello all! I am grateful to be a part of this forum.

Anyways, to add a different perspective on the topic, giving FREE estimates is very important from a sale point-of-view. When I was in sales, years ago, it was pretty common among salesmen to enforce the concept "Just get the appointment."

This was a way of explaining how difficult it is for some sales people to "get in the door." You cannot get a sale if you cannot get inside to talk. Therefore, when a sales person follow-up on a lead, they are trained not to give any details. Simply just make the appointment. Many people a prone to give rejections over the phone (It's too easy to say no) rather than in person.

Many electricians (with all do respect) are not trained in sales. Many HVAC techs are. Perhaps that is why they are given commissions for products sold by them. But, electricians are more apt to doing the work the contractor sets up. If you want to be successful in this business, you must change this. Get some training in sales.

For the electrician, giving the estimate is a part of the sales process. Most of the time, if you get the estimate, you can also get the sale. You may hear a few stories how customers use the free estimate as a way of comparing prices, but this is just a latent effect and not actually the intended reason for the estimate.

You can see this daily, especially, when it comes to repairs. Let's say you were called to give an estimate for a light inoperable. You go out and see it's only a tripped breaker. What do you do? Do you give a firm price, walk away, and allow a 3 second solution evolve into a three month negotiating process? No. You determine the customer's budget and find a solution to fit. 

Often times, the sale is not given to the lowest bid, but the service that is flexible. $500 in one whoop is heavy, compared to $100 over a period of five months. So, with techniques such as this, you can learn how to give the estimate and close the sale. :thumbup:
​


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

bkdaniels said:


> Hello all! I am grateful to be a part of this forum.
> 
> Anyways, to add a different perspective on the topic, giving FREE estimates is very important from a sale point-of-view. When I was in sales, years ago, it was pretty common among salesmen to enforce the concept "Just get the appointment."
> 
> ...


Old thread but you bring up very good points. Once you become a contractor, you are no longer simply an electrician. As a matter of fact, some of the most successful contractors I know were pathetic electricians. They know how to make money, though  .


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

99cents said:


> Old thread but you bring up very good points. Once you become a contractor, you are no longer simply an electrician. As a matter of fact, some of the most successful contractors I know were pathetic electricians. They know how to make money, though  .


Reminds me of a thought for a topic I had the other day. "Are you a better electrician or business person?"


----------

