# Swimming Pool Bonding



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

stevo1020 said:


> I have been an electrician for almost 10 years and have never done an in ground swimming pool. I just want to make sure that what I did is correct. I ran 6 bare (wholesale house doesn't sell 8 bare) around the grid of the pool bonding the rebarb, light, and ladder all the way back to the pool panel. Then from the panel, I ran a 6 bare to the heater, the pump, and the aqua rite system. They are pouring concrete Monday and just didn't want a safety issue to come up later. Also, my boss didn't have a clue on this and he has been an electrician for 35 years. I guess he doesn't know how to read a code book and won't loan it to me to look at to make sure is right. Thanks in advance.


Where I''m at we are 2008 code so ... You didn't need to run the grid back to a panel. It is not serving as a "ground" , its an equipotential grid meant to keep all surfaces around the pool at the same voltage potential. Also there has to be a bond to the water of a minimum square inches now. Your ladder I think covers this for you though since you have one. I hit the pool rebar, coping steel, ladders, pumps, lights, railings, controllers, and any objects within the area's outlined by the code book that are metal on the surface within the zones identified if they are going to be present, such as gutters and window frames.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You don't need the grid to tie directly to the panel. You bond the pool metals, do the perimeter bonding and tie back to the pump. If the pump is a double insulated pump then you would just tie the #8 (or #6 in your case) to the EGC of the pump.

All the grid and bonding does is keep everything at the same voltage potential should there be any voltage in the area. It prevents feeling any shock.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You don't need the grid to tie directly to the panel. You bond the pool metals, do the perimeter bonding and tie back to the pump. If the pump is a double insulated pump then you would just tie the #8 (or #6 in your case) to the EGC of the pump.
> 
> All the grid and bonding does is keep everything at the same voltage potential should there be any voltage in the area. It prevents feeling any shock.



Is that an 11 change? If not then where is it written to do that?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> Is that an 11 change? If not then where is it written to do that?


well where else would you bond to? All I have ever known to do was bond to the motor..


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> well where else would you bond to? All I have ever known to do was bond to the motor..


Why would I want to attempt to bond a double insulated motor for? Unless like I asked if it is a 2011 change, in which case I still have about 2 years to fool around before coming up to speed cause we are on 08.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Why would I want to attempt to bond a double insulated motor for? Unless like I asked if it is a 2011 change, in which case I still have about 2 years to fool around before coming up to speed cause we are on 08.


Okay look at 680.26(6)(a). It has not changed. If there is no electrical equipment in the loop then the bond needs to connect to the egc. If there is electrical equipment in the bonded group then the wire must be left long enough at the double insulated pump in case of a future pump that is not double insulated.

If there is a light in the system then you don't need to connect the egc of the double ins. pump-- I guess I should have been clearer.


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## stevo1020 (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks to all!


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Okay look at 680.26(6)(a). It has not changed. If there is no electrical equipment in the loop then the bond needs to connect to the egc. If there is electrical equipment in the bonded group then the wire must be left long enough at the double insulated pump in case of a future pump that is not double insulated.
> 
> If there is a light in the system then you don't need to connect the egc of the double ins. pump-- I guess I should have been clearer.


I had an inspector require that also on indoor Jacuzzis for a 75 unit townhome development. The first half of the development had metal motors and then they started coming shipped double insulated.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

cabletie said:


> I had an inspector require that also on indoor Jacuzzis for a 75 unit townhome development. The first half of the development had metal motors and then they started coming shipped double insulated.


Are you saying he required a bond back to the panel??


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## psbmt (Jun 24, 2010)

I just did a pool that had a panel, provided by the pool guy, that had lugs on the outside for bonding.

(6) Electrical Equipment. Metal parts of electrical equipment
associated with the pool water circulating system, including
pump motors and metal parts of equipment associated
with pool covers, including electric motors, shall be bonded.

Seems to me the panel is a metal part some what associated with providing power for the water circulating system...it can not hurt to bond the panel.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

psbmt said:


> I just did a pool that had a panel, provided by the pool guy, that had lugs on the outside for bonding.
> 
> (6) Electrical Equipment. Metal parts of electrical equipment
> associated with the pool water circulating system, including
> ...


I don't see a panel as fitting in that description but it is an interesting question. I suspect that panel is a specialized pool panel.

BTW- what are you doing awake so early after Bob S. party.


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## psbmt (Jun 24, 2010)

you know us old folks, can't sleep past 6....btw, it says metal parts of electrical equipment....


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Are you saying he required a bond back to the panel??


No just to the outlet box. That was 18 years ago I think we started using metal boxes with a ground lug on the outside of the box to satisfy the inspector and make things easier for us. Hot, cold, metal box


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

psbmt said:


> you know us old folks, can't sleep past 6....btw, it says metal parts of electrical equipment....


Read the sentence- metal parts of electrical equipment associated with....


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## psbmt (Jun 24, 2010)

yea, so read my first post, and I strap emt every 4 1/2 feet too...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

psbmt said:


> yand I strap emt every 4 1/2 feet too...


Yes, I know that all too well. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

If the panel is out at the pool, I think depending on it's location you could argue it needs bonding.


On the other hand in general this applies.

From 2011 NEC 680.26(B)


> An 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor provided to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes.


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## psbmt (Jun 24, 2010)

Dennis has convinced me..again! The panel need not be bonded...I guess the idea is that any piece of equipment with water running through it should be bonded to the grid. Hopefully the panel does not have pool water running through it.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*Misunderstood:*

Most common misunderstanding I hear regards the 'water bonding'.
That applies to vinyl/plastic pools only,the gunite/concrete acts as the bond for the water.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

leland said:


> Most common misunderstanding I hear regards the 'water bonding'.
> That applies to vinyl/plastic pools only,the gunite/concrete acts as the bond for the water.


Where did you get this info from?


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Where did you get this info from?


680.2(6)b(1)


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

psbmt said:


> Dennis has convinced me..again! The panel need not be bonded...I guess the idea is that any piece of equipment with water running through it should be bonded to the grid. Hopefully the panel does not have pool water running through it.


This does assume 680.26(B)(7) does not apply.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

kennydmeek said:


> 680.2(6)b(1)


Maybe I mis read what Leland wrote. I don't see how this exempts the water from being bonded on concrete pools.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Where did you get this info from?


I think this covers it. 



> 680.26(C) Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 800 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. *This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B).*


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> This does assume 680.26(B)(7) does not apply.


I don't see how it does unless the panel is within 5 feet of the pool.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I think this covers it.


I see, so it seems that a conductive bonded pool will bond the water. I always thought that it had to be a light , ladder, etc that was in contact with the water. But that does make sense.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Maybe I mis read what Leland wrote. I don't see how this exempts the water from being bonded on concrete pools.


You still have to bond the rebar. It just means you don't have to go out of your way otherwise if the ladder or something else doesn't meet the surface area requirement....as I understand it...


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

kennydmeek said:


> You still have to bond the rebar. It just means you don't have to go out of your way otherwise if the ladder or something else doesn't meet the surface area requirement....as I understand it...


Like some vinyl pools actually come with a bonding plate that goes in the skimmer or whatever. Not necessary with concrete..


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

kennydmeek said:


> You still have to bond the rebar. It just means you don't have to go out of your way otherwise if the ladder or something else doesn't meet the surface area requirement....as I understand it...


It is interesting because if the pool is bonded and the water is bonded because the pool conductive shell is bonded then why, if the ladder is bolted to the pool and touch the water, does the ladder have to be bonded? Rhetorical question.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> It is interesting because if the pool is bonded and the water is bonded because the pool conductive shell is bonded then why, if the ladder is bolted to the pool and touch the water, does the ladder have to be bonded? Rhetorical question.


Because water is more resistive than a piece of number 8 and a human and water touching an otherwise unbonded ladder will create a parrallel path..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> It is interesting because if the pool is bonded and the water is bonded because the pool conductive shell is bonded then why, if the ladder is bolted to the pool and touch the water, does the ladder have to be bonded? *Rhetorical question.*


Interesting none the less.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Volleyball*

What about those little volleyball setups on pools. Should you bond that? 

Tek screw / :laughing:lug ?


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

Cletis said:


> What about those little volleyball setups on pools. Should you bond that?
> 
> Tek screw / :laughing:lug ?


Yes....the ball too. Only Tetherball is allowed!


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Cletis said:


> What about those little volleyball setups on pools. Should you bond that?
> 
> Tek screw / :laughing:lug ?


 
What about a can of beer?

If you like your beer out of a can and you like to drink in the pool should you bond the beer can to the ladder?


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> What about a can of beer?
> 
> If you like your beer out of a can and you like to drink in the pool should you bond the beer can to the ladder?


Or the diving board...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't see how it does unless the panel is within 5 feet of the pool.


That is what I am saying.


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## mprocacc (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi all....newbie here. I've got a new gunite pool taking shape in my backyard. The contractor has left several rebar points available for me to bond. Do I need to run SOLID #8 or may I run THHN stranded #8?

Thanks so much in advance.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

mprocacc said:


> Hi all....newbie here. I've got a new gunite pool taking shape in my backyard. The contractor has left several rebar points available for me to bond. Do I need to run SOLID #8 or may I run THHN stranded #8?
> 
> Thanks so much in advance.


See 680.26(B)


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mprocacc said:


> Hi all....newbie here. I've got a new gunite pool taking shape in my backyard. The contractor has left several rebar points available for me to bond. Do I need to run SOLID #8 or may I run THHN stranded #8?
> 
> Thanks so much in advance.


This site is for electricians so we are not at liberty to help. I would strongly advise getting an electrician to help you thru this as it can be very dangerous if not done correctly.


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