# Luminus 4" led panel lights



## joebanana

Not familiar with them at all, but I can tell when a customer is going to beat me up over material cost.


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## kharasym

Ya that's my concern

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## Southeast Power

Install whatever they want, just maintain your margins. 

I like to think of it like to "you buy, we fry" places.
Im not cooking it for free and you have to buy two drinks and a couple of sides.


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## kharasym

That's a good way of thinking v

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## HackWork

joebanana said:


> Not familiar with them at all, but I can tell when a customer is going to beat me up over material cost.


Yeah, I don't let me customers know the price of anything like that. 

I would also tell them that I would not warranty that cheap light so if one goes dead it will cost them way more to pay me to replace it than they would save on using cheap lights in the first place.


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## kharasym

Ya I don't share material price. But it's a small job with mainly pot lights so it's not hard to figure out a rough cost. I'm gonna buy a set and try them at home. I definitely won't offer any warranty if I do use them. 

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## HackWork

This is one of those situations where the homeowner wants to save money by taking it out of your pocket and also making you do more work. These cheaper lights are harder to install since they have smaller wiring compartments and they don't come with Wago connectors so you have to wirenut each one. Plus the brackets are fragile and the clips break off easily. These are all things to tell the homeowner in addition to the warrantee to get them to keep their nose out of your business and let you put in the correct lights.


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## electricguy

The junction box is mounted to the back of those iirc they do come with Wagos.


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## socket2ya

Maybe those Cosco lights are nice, let us know how they are. Right off the bat though I can see that they don't look as versitile as the Lotus. It looks from the picture that the wiring compartment is located directly above the trim, I doubt that it will fit under a joist. The price sure looks good though


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## kharasym

Yes the jb is mounted directly to the light. They do have wagos which is good. I'm doing a new construction so the depth isn't an issue other than the fact that I can't mount a rough in ring and connect the driver ahead of time like I usually do with lotus. 

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## MechanicalDVR

Let them buy what they like and just charge accordingly and as others said you warranty no part of the light, just your own work.


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## BlackHowling

I put them in at my brother in laws and they have good light output and are very similar to the Standard Presto lights

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## DesignerMan

HackWork said:


> Yeah, I don't let me customers know the price of anything like that.
> 
> I would also tell them that I would not warranty that cheap light so if one goes dead it will cost them way more to pay me to replace it than they would save on using cheap lights in the first place.


I agree with Hack...I never break my pricing out to show materials and labor- just a flat price. 
This scenario is exactly why I started doing flat rate pricing.
Part of my profit is based on material mark-up which I lose if they supply the materials. With a flat price they can supply anything they want...I'm still going to add my mark-up in.
And like you said- I won't warranty what they supply.


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## LuckyLuke

I have used some of their products (not those in question), I would recommend NOT using them.....


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## kharasym

Any reason in particular why not to? They look OK. Lots of plastic instead of metal. I've yet to try one on a dimmer though. 

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## LuckyLuke

kharasym said:


> Any reason in particular why not to? They look OK. Lots of plastic instead of metal. I've yet to try one on a dimmer though.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


Half of the LED lamps I purchased from them had to be returned due to endless flickering.


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## HackWork

kharasym said:


> Any reason in particular why not to? They look OK. Lots of plastic instead of metal. I've yet to try one on a dimmer though.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


Let's say you have an issue with one of them, any type of issue from flickering to not dimming or something. When you go back, are you going to be able to charge them your full rate for the added time? Will you feel comfortable doing that? Or will the customer hate you for charging him to go back and not use you again?


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## kharasym

Ya after all being said I talked him out of these. I didn't even hook one up. They are getting returned. 

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## B-Nabs

Ban monsterled 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## 99cents

I had a customer supply them on a job. They're okay I guess. The JB is mounted on top so you need more clearance than a Lotus light. I get almost zero resistance when i recommend Lotus based on product quality, customer service and the fact that they invented them.


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## HackWork

Lithonia are more than fine, IMO. $30 on average. I can get them in 2 days from Amazon, often times they offer free 1 day shipping.


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## sbrn33

kharasym said:


> So I quoted a job using my preferred lotus lights for a client. Now he's messaged me asking if I'm familiar with the luminous lights at Costco. $15 for 2 after our provincial rebates.
> 
> Does anyone know firsthand what theses are like? Quality, appearance, light output, ease of install, etc. ?
> View attachment 106393
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


Are lighting up a shower?


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## lighterup

kharasym said:


> Any reason in particular why not to? They look OK. Lots of plastic instead of metal. I've yet to try one on a dimmer though.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


Do they say dimmable and if so is the dimmer 
your providing compatible with the Costco product?


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## 99cents

lighterup said:


> Do they say dimmable and if so is the dimmer
> your providing compatible with the Costco product?


I put them on a Skylark no problem. They say they're dimmable.


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## Going_Commando

monsterled said:


> Low prices , means cheap quality . We carry echo line below $15 and premium high quality (like lotus /liteline). There are many low prices on the market , question is quality , who long will they last , will be the company be in business if they offer over 3 year warranty. Costco known for cheap prices, quality ? even if there policy is return, hassle to go thru defective units , need to be un installed , replace by electrcian. 99% time i know that drivers fail , due to bad quality .
> 
> check out monsteredlites.com



I can't wait until you are banned. Stop bumping old threads, and learn how to write in proper English.

ETA: Forgot to quote Monsterled. I am working on fixing that now, lol.


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## nestoribili

*LED luminaries*

I bought one pair of those Luminus PLT024T2 T8 substitution tubes at Cotsco some months ago. They are not dimmable and are meant to be used with an electronic (ultrasonic) ballast as there is nothing inside but the LEDs. Then if the ballast fails they may be damaged or stop working on the best case scenario.
As I pointed out I am a Costco customer for almost 10 years. On average Costco products are first quality, but their return policy is superb.
Both are working without trouble in my workshop. Better light output than fluorescents.


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## qwertyjjj

The reason customers get their own stuff is it costs an arm and a leg in labour and then you want to charge your own materials plus a percentage.
No wonder.
All the talk about warranty is a bit shaft the, I mean yes stuff breaks but it's like insurance on electronics. Not worth buying it.


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## HackWork

qwertyjjj said:


> The reason customers get their own stuff is it costs an arm and a leg in labour and then you want to charge your own materials plus a percentage.
> No wonder.
> All the talk about warranty is a bit shaft the, I mean yes stuff breaks but it's like insurance on electronics. Not worth buying it.


What? Are you begrudging contractors for charging markup on material, which is the basis of ALL sales since the beginning of time?


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## Kevin

HackWork said:


> What? Are you begrudging contractors for charging markup on material, which is the basis of ALL sales since the beginning of time?


He is a homeowner that has not been banned from the site yet.

Man, I wish there was a moderator here that could ban him.....

HAX AND KEVIN FOR MOD!

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## mofos be cray

qwertyjjj said:


> The reason customers get their own stuff is it costs an arm and a leg in labour and then you want to charge your own materials plus a percentage.
> No wonder.
> All the talk about warranty is a bit shaft the, I mean yes stuff breaks but it's like insurance on electronics. Not worth buying it.


Yes electricians mark up materials. So does every other trade. 
But we also select products with which we are familiar. Which means a faster, better install than having to learn the oddities of some product made by a company that will be tits up in two months.
It also means that we select and recommend products that we are confident will suit the application and will last for a good period of time.
So, if, you want to pay more money to install an inferior product then I, 100%, reccomend that you buy your own product.


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## JoeSparky

I supply a 1 year warranty on all of the materials that I supply. I also supply a 1 year labor warranty on those same parts. If I supplied it and it breaks within a year, I repair or replace at no charge to my customer. 
If my customer supplies some junk Costco store brand lights and they are defective, incompatible with normal LED dimmers etc within 1 year, they are on the hook to source replacement parts and my time to troubleshoot and replace them. Store brand lights from someplace other then HD or lowes probably won't be available in a few months and the customer will have to replace with a mismatched light if they are trying to match a room full of existing.


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## kb1jb1

One thing that I noticed about these "DEALS" at Costco, HD, or Lowes. If you need to add one next year, try to get one that will match. At least RAB, Lotus, Halo >>> is consistent with the style and color.


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## Kevin

qwertyjjj said:


> The reason customers get their own stuff is it costs an arm and a leg in labour and then you want to charge your own materials plus a percentage.
> 
> No wonder.
> 
> All the talk about warranty is a bit shaft the, I mean yes stuff breaks but it's like insurance on electronics. Not worth buying it.


Trust me, if it's going to cost you $600 to get an electrician back to your home to change a pot light (that you supplied) because it burnt out and it requires 25' of scaffolding to change, you'll regret it.

Most electrical contractors offer a warranty on material and labour. If a light they installed burns out or stops working (within the terms of their warranty), they will replace it at no charge to you.

Now, imagine you buy some cheap China pot lights. You just paid to have one changed. Now another burns out and they electrician has to return with scaffolding and it's another $600. You would have wished they supplied the good brand name lights with their warranty.

How many more of those cheap lights are going to fail?

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## kolyan2k

Came in here to make a post about these type of recceseed lights, dont won't to start new topic.....

I had inspection today, and inspector told me he wants all conjunction boxes for those old work recessed lights accessible and at the same time secured to 2x4, beam, or whatever. Did anyone have to deal with this ever?

I like to use these from HD

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...nless-LED-Recessed-Kit-4-Pack-91365/306079856


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> Came in here to make a post about these type of recceseed lights, dont won't to start new topic.....
> 
> I had inspection today, and inspector told me he wants all conjunction boxes for those old work recessed lights accessible and at the same time secured to 2x4, beam, or whatever. Did anyone have to deal with this ever?
> 
> I like to use these from HD
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...nless-LED-Recessed-Kit-4-Pack-91365/306079856


A lot of times they have a Keyhole on the back of the driver box. So you put a screw into the joist and then you can reach in and hang the driver box on it.

Those lights that you linked to aren't much of a savings compared to the Halos. I'm not sure the difference, but I see 6" Halo's range from $17 to $30 each. Cheaper in the 4 pack.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-HL...-5000K-No-Can-Needed-HLB6099FS1EMWR/306051064 ($99 in the 4-pack)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-HL...tegrated-LED-Kit-HLBSL6099FS351EMWR/311575585
Difference?


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## kolyan2k

HackWork said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> Came in here to make a post about these type of recceseed lights, dont won't to start new topic.....
> 
> I had inspection today, and inspector told me he wants all conjunction boxes for those old work recessed lights accessible and at the same time secured to 2x4, beam, or whatever. Did anyone have to deal with this ever?
> 
> I like to use these from HD
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...nless-LED-Recessed-Kit-4-Pack-91365/306079856
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of times they have a Keyhole on the back of the driver box. So you put a screw into the joist and then you can reach in and hang the driver box on it.
> 
> Those lights that you linked to aren't much of a savings compared to the Halos. I'm not sure the difference, but I see 6" Halo's range from $17 to $30 each. Cheaper in the 4 pack.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-HL...-5000K-No-Can-Needed-HLB6099FS1EMWR/306051064 ($99 in the 4-pack)
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-HL...tegrated-LED-Kit-HLBSL6099FS351EMWR/311575585
> Difference?
Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty much the same thing. I guess I buy them because they are more available.

But how am I supposed to secure it to joist through a 4 inch hole in a finished ceiling? Its not like holes are all next to the joist, and you cant even get screw gun inside. I read the manual, one brand just says slide inside the ceiling, the other says do according to code.
On a job site where inspector asked me to do this the only way to do it is to slide 2x4 inside, screw that to ceiling and then screw the box. Its still pretty difficult because it's like 3 ceilings on top of each other (in one room its 4 ceilings). And this ceiling will be repaired anyway, what about finished ceilings? What about condos with metal studs? This makes absolutely zero sense.....
The inspector said if you cant secure the box, that means you cant use/install that light, and he doesnt care how I secure it and long at its done


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## HackWork

If you don't have a small impact gun that will fit thru the hole, you can use a long bit to drive the screw into the joist. It's no more than 4" to the nearest joist when they are 16" OC. With metal studs you can use a self tapper. 

Or, Lithonia makes a joist bar that you can fit thru the hole: https://img.acuitybrands.com/public...8:45&DOC_Type=Installation_Instruction_Sheets


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## kolyan2k

HackWork said:


> If you don't have a small impact gun that will fit thru the hole, you can use a long bit to drive the screw into the joist. It's no more than 4" to the nearest joist when they are 16" OC. With metal studs you can use a self tapper.
> 
> Or, Lithonia makes a joist bar that you can fit thru the hole: https://img.acuitybrands.com/public...8:45&DOC_Type=Installation_Instruction_Sheets


I see, so there is code rule for this I guess, that all electrical boxes must be fixed in place etc. Then probably easier to use this type of light for this job

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Juno-White...cessed-Light-Kit-Fits-Opening-4-in/1000330975


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## CoolWill

qwertyjjj said:


> The reason customers get their own stuff is it costs an arm and a leg in labour and then you want to charge your own materials plus a percentage.
> No wonder.
> All the talk about warranty is a bit shaft the, I mean yes stuff breaks but it's like insurance on electronics. Not worth buying it.


I hope you get raped in a gas station bathroom.


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> I see, so there is code rule for this I guess, that all electrical boxes must be fixed in place etc. Then probably easier to use this type of light for this job
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Juno-White...cessed-Light-Kit-Fits-Opening-4-in/1000330975


That would work in many situations. But you lose the biggest benefit of pancake lights, the ability to put them directly under a joist since they are only half inch thick.

Honestly, it’s best not to get an inspection on retrofit work where the drywall is already up when mounting the driver box. No one will ever know they weren’t there already.


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## kolyan2k

HackWork said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so there is code rule for this I guess, that all electrical boxes must be fixed in place etc. Then probably easier to use this type of light for this job
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Juno-White...cessed-Light-Kit-Fits-Opening-4-in/1000330975
> 
> 
> 
> That would work in many situations. But you lose the biggest benefit of pancake lights, the ability to put them directly under a joist since they are only half inch thick.
> 
> Honestly, itâ€™️s best not to get an inspection on retrofit work where the drywall is already up when mounting the driver box. No one will ever know they werenâ€™️t there already.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's basically what I am forced to do in many situations...thanks to these nonsense rules. But on this particular job contractor decided to keep old ceiling and renovate everything else....so pretty much it's a complete new work renovation except for ceiling


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## Kevin

kolyan2k said:


> Came in here to make a post about these type of recceseed lights, dont won't to start new topic.....
> 
> I had inspection today, and inspector told me he wants all conjunction boxes for those old work recessed lights accessible and at the same time secured to 2x4, beam, or whatever. Did anyone have to deal with this ever?
> 
> I like to use these from HD
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...nless-LED-Recessed-Kit-4-Pack-91365/306079856


The inspectors here request that the driver be mounted to studs on new construction, but they can float freely for retrofits on existing buildings.


Seems kind of ridiculous to have to fasten it on existing buildings.... does he Also want you to staple the wires that you fish in?

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## mofos be cray

kolyan2k said:


> Came in here to make a post about these type of recceseed lights, dont won't to start new topic.....
> 
> I had inspection today, and inspector told me he wants all conjunction boxes for those old work recessed lights accessible and at the same time secured to 2x4, beam, or whatever. Did anyone have to deal with this ever?
> 
> I like to use these from HD
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...nless-LED-Recessed-Kit-4-Pack-91365/306079856


Usually, I think, the inspector in your situation would categorize as fished in. Bit ****y that yours didn't if you ask me.
Every reputable manufacturer makes extension cables for their drivers. So you could just fish those to a more accessible location.


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## kolyan2k

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> Came in here to make a post about these type of recceseed lights, dont won't to start new topic.....
> 
> I had inspection today, and inspector told me he wants all conjunction boxes for those old work recessed lights accessible and at the same time secured to 2x4, beam, or whatever. Did anyone have to deal with this ever?
> 
> I like to use these from HD
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...nless-LED-Recessed-Kit-4-Pack-91365/306079856
> 
> 
> 
> The inspectors here request that the driver be mounted to studs on new construction, but they can float freely for retrofits on existing buildings.
> 
> 
> Seems kind of ridiculous to have to fasten it on existing buildings.... does he Also want you to staple the wires that you fish in?
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
Click to expand...

Lol, yes that's the next step to staple all wires. Unfortunately cant argue with him. If he doesnt sign permit for rough, then I would be screwed even more, he will be checking lights at final now. Traffic these days is ridiculous, takes 1.5 hours to get to the job in the morning for inspection and then wait 1 hour and head back.


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> Yes, that's basically what I am forced to do in many situations...thanks to these nonsense rules. But on this particular job contractor decided to keep old ceiling and renovate everything else....so pretty much it's a complete new work renovation except for ceiling


Don't let the GC stand in your way of passing inspections for his own benefit. If the inspector wants the driver supported, cut a hole in the ceiling for access to attach the driver.


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## mofos be cray

HackWork said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's basically what I am forced to do in many situations...thanks to these nonsense rules. But on this particular job contractor decided to keep old ceiling and renovate everything else....so pretty much it's a complete new work renovation except for ceiling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't let the GC stand in your way of passing inspections for his own benefit. If the inspector wants the driver supported, cut a hole in the ceiling for access to attach the driver.
Click to expand...

Probably worried asbestos might be in the one of the layers of drywall on the ceiling. I would put good money that that is the reason the gc didn't pull the ceiling.


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## Kevin

mofos be cray said:


> Probably worried asbestos might be in the one of the layers of drywall on the ceiling. I would put good money that that is the reason the gc didn't pull the ceiling.


Did I hear "extra"?

Tell the GC you need the ceiling opened to mount the drivers as per the electrical inspectors requirements. If he isn't willing to do it, let him know you can do it yourself and tack on some extra costs. 

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## kolyan2k

GCs don't pull the ceilings simply because its lots off demo, old insulation comes out, and then need to install new ceiling


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## kolyan2k

I just finished another job, we had to bury driver boxes in ceiling because ceiling construction and fire blocking required by code was so much in the way of lights, it was impossible to slide the box inside through 4inch hole. Both customer and contractor said they want it done this way because otherwise lights would not be centered


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> I just finished another job, we had to bury driver boxes in ceiling because ceiling construction and fire blocking required by code was so much in the way of lights, it was impossible to slide the box inside through 4inch hole. Both customer and contractor said they want it done this way because otherwise lights would not be centered


In those situations I will install the drivers in the holes of other lights and run low voltage cable over tot he lights that have framing in the way.


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## 99cents

kolyan2k said:


> GCs don't pull the ceilings simply because its lots off demo, old insulation comes out, and then need to install new ceiling


Depends entirely on the job.


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## kolyan2k

How much do you guys charge per light for labor for old work and new?

I mean I guess everything is doable but at what cost. I dont know about you, but I feel like construction jobs haven't increased in salary in recent years compared to other office jobs. 
I remember many years ago my dad used to charge people 80 per hour on small pay per hour jobs, and today when I tell customers I charge 80-90....many say I am crazy and find someone else. Meanwhile when I finished college, tech jobs paid 80k per year, today my buddy from same college makes 140k-150k


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> I remember many years ago my dad used to charge people 80 per hour on small pay per hour jobs, and today when I tell customers *I charge 80-90....many say I am crazy and find someone else*.


First, find new customers. 

Second, don't tell them your hourly rate, price the entire job.

I guarantee if I told my customers what their job broke down to hourly, I would lose half of them. And the remaining half wouldn't be very happy.

Instead, I give them a price for the entire job. They are happy with that price for the job.


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## kolyan2k

HackWork said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember many years ago my dad used to charge people 80 per hour on small pay per hour jobs, and today when I tell customers *I charge 80-90....many say I am crazy and find someone else*.
> 
> 
> 
> First, find new customers.
> 
> Second, don't tell them your hourly rate, price the entire job.
> 
> I guarantee if I told my customers what their job broke down to hourly, I would lose half of them. And the remaining half wouldn't be very happy.
> 
> Instead, I give them a price for the entire job. They are happy with that price for the job.
Click to expand...

Yes I know what you mean. I price per job, but some jobs I have to do it by hour.


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> Yes I know what you mean. I price per job, but some jobs I have to do it by hour.


Some jobs might require the contractor that does them to charge hourly, but you don't have to be that contractor. Certainly not if they tell you that you are crazy for charging $80-90/hour.


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## JoeSparky

kolyan2k said:


> How much do you guys charge per light for labor for old work and new?


1 hour per light either way. Plus materials, markup and travel. The hourly dollar amount is proportional to your cost of doing business. It also depends on whether you prefer eating steak or ramen noodles and if you prefer to live in a house with or without axles:smile:


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## kolyan2k

JoeSparky said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much do you guys charge per light for labor for old work and new?
> 
> 
> 
> 1 hour per light either way. Plus materials, markup and travel. The hourly dollar amount is proportional to your cost of doing business. It also depends on whether you prefer eating steak or ramen noodles and if you prefer to live in a house with or without axles
Click to expand...

I am in MA, can't even afford a house )) looking for one right now, anything less then half a mil is a shed


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## kolyan2k

Priced out a job for a very good contractor that I've known for many years....guy said he cant pay me what I want because his electrical quote is like half the price. Got into argument how I am charging way too much for jobs and electricians dont make that much money. 
These constant arguments make me what to do something else or just become an inspector or something.

Ps. Quoted him $6k labor for full rewire of 3 bedrooms, hallway, 3 bathrooms, 14 recessed lights, 6 smokes, and some other minor stuff moving switches, demolition etc. Half of the job needs snaking too ..old work with walls and ceilings that have 3 or 4 layers


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## mjbasford

kolyan2k said:


> Priced out a job for a very good contractor that I've known for many years....guy said he cant pay me what I want because his electrical quote is like half the price. Got into argument how I am charging way too much for jobs and electricians dont make that much money.
> These constant arguments make me what to do something else or just become an inspector or something.
> 
> Ps. Quoted him $6k labor for full rewire of 3 bedrooms, hallway, 3 bathrooms, 14 recessed lights, 6 smokes, and some other minor stuff moving switches, demolition etc. Half of the job needs snaking too ..old work with walls and ceilings that have 3 or 4 layers


He is right, electricians don't make that much. What are you going to make on that job, $5? 

And that's assuming it's a one story house with a nice crawl and attic.


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## Switched

kolyan2k said:


> Yeah, pretty much the same thing. I guess I buy them because they are more available.
> 
> But how am I supposed to secure it to joist through a 4 inch hole in a finished ceiling? Its not like holes are all next to the joist, and you cant even get screw gun inside. I read the manual, one brand just says slide inside the ceiling, the other says do according to code.
> On a job site where inspector asked me to do this the only way to do it is to slide 2x4 inside, screw that to ceiling and then screw the box. Its still pretty difficult because it's like 3 ceilings on top of each other (in one room its 4 ceilings). And this ceiling will be repaired anyway, what about finished ceilings? What about condos with metal studs? This makes absolutely zero sense.....
> The inspector said if you cant secure the box, that means you cant use/install that light, and he doesnt care how I secure it and long at its done


Late to the game on this reply, and not sure if MTW has said it.... But that's why a permit is stupid sometimes. Just saying.....:wink:


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> Priced out a job for a very good contractor that I've known for many years....guy said he cant pay me what I want because his electrical quote is like half the price. Got into argument how I am charging way too much for jobs and electricians dont make that much money.
> These constant arguments make me what to do something else or just become an inspector or something.
> 
> Ps. Quoted him $6k labor for full rewire of 3 bedrooms, hallway, 3 bathrooms, 14 recessed lights, 6 smokes, and some other minor stuff moving switches, demolition etc. Half of the job needs snaking too ..old work with walls and ceilings that have 3 or 4 layers


This is the huge problem that all contractors see, and it's also a fork in the road for you.

This is where you decide which direction your life will go.

Do you go left? Going left is accepting what this guy told you, that electrician don't make that much. You will continue to work for less for this guy and other customers and your business will ultimately die, but not before ruining you and hurting your family.

Or do you go right? Going to the right means that you ignore this one idiot. You tell him that you left some stuff out and you amend your estimate to add an extra $4,000 (which you should have priced in the first place). When he balks, you chuckle and leave. You go find other customers and work for them. It might be some hard work to find other contractors, but working is why you are here. Every time you find a customer that is like this guy, you ignore them just the same and move on to the next one. You continue to do this as your business prospers.

Which way will you go?


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## JoeSparky

@kolyan2k , Hax is right. Time to kick this GC to the curb. There is plenty of money to be made in this trade. You don't need to cut your own throat to do it.


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## MTW

Small anecodate but relevant. Several months back I was asked to look at a house with K&T by a realtor. I said that it's no problem but it will take several hours and I'm charging for the time to do a full survey. 

I never got the job and later found out the owner of the house was a psycho. That right there is proof positive of why you need to by upfront about rates and charging for your time because you end up weeding out the bad customers and time wasters immediately.


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## kolyan2k

I ended up making a deal with contractor. He is going to help me wire the place up and I will charge him less. Works for me.


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## 99cents

kolyan2k said:


> I ended up making a deal with contractor. He is going to help me wire the place up and I will charge him less. Works for me.


These are some things that I will let the customer do to save a few loonies:

Put on cover plates.
Garbage disposal.
Sweep up.
Wait for inspector


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## 99cents

kolyan2k said:


> I ended up making a deal with contractor. He is going to help me wire the place up and I will charge him less. Works for me.


These are some things that I will let the customer or GC do to save a few loonies:

Put on cover plates.
Garbage disposal.
Sweep up.
Wait for inspector


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## HackWork

99cents said:


> These are some things that I will let the customer do to save a few loonies:
> 
> Put on cover plates.
> *Garbage disposal.*
> Sweep up.
> Wait for inspector


You install garbage disposals? I've never done that, always the plumber along with installing the dishwasher.


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## kolyan2k

99cents said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> I ended up making a deal with contractor. He is going to help me wire the place up and I will charge him less. Works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> These are some things that I will let the customer or GC do to save a few loonies:
> 
> Put on cover plates.
> Garbage disposal.
> Sweep up.
> Wait for inspector
Click to expand...

Disposal is plumbers job here. Waiting for inspector can be a hit or miss because they want electrician to wait for them. Plates and cleanup are extremely minor things


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## kolyan2k

mjbasford said:


> kolyan2k said:
> 
> 
> 
> Priced out a job for a very good contractor that I've known for many years....guy said he cant pay me what I want because his electrical quote is like half the price. Got into argument how I am charging way too much for jobs and electricians dont make that much money.
> These constant arguments make me what to do something else or just become an inspector or something.
> 
> Ps. Quoted him $6k labor for full rewire of 3 bedrooms, hallway, 3 bathrooms, 14 recessed lights, 6 smokes, and some other minor stuff moving switches, demolition etc. Half of the job needs snaking too ..old work with walls and ceilings that have 3 or 4 layers
> 
> 
> 
> He is right, electricians don't make that much. What are you going to make on that job, $5?
> 
> And that's assuming it's a one story house with a nice crawl and attic.
Click to expand...

I wanted to make 6, plus now some additional work. It's a townhouse 2 floors and no attic. 2nd fl full rewire, 1st just bathroom and some additions


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## JoeSparky

kolyan2k said:


> I ended up making a deal with contractor. He is going to help me wire the place up and I will charge him less. Works for me.


Mark my words. This will be the last job you ever do for this contractor. He's not going to help nearly as much as you have taken money off of the bid. 
Sometimes you need to walk away. Education is expensive. You will be paying for it over the course of this job.


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## HackWork

kolyan2k said:


> I ended up making a deal with contractor. He is going to help me wire the place up and I will charge him less. Works for me.





kolyan2k said:


> I wanted to make 6, plus now some additional work. It's a townhouse 2 floors and no attic. 2nd fl full rewire, 1st just bathroom and some additions


I think you are going about this all wrong. $6K was WAY too low for what you described, now you are charging even less?!?!?!

I am willing to bet that the garbage men who remove the trash from that townhouse community make more than you actual make from this job. I'm serious.

Remember that fork in the road I mentioned earlier? You made your choice.


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## sbrn33

kolyan2k said:


> I ended up making a deal with contractor. He is going to help me wire the place up and I will charge him less. Works for me.


This is a really good idea. I am sure this will turn out well.


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## 99cents

HackWork said:


> You install garbage disposals? I've never done that, always the plumber along with installing the dishwasher.





I meant taking out the rubbish.


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## HackWork

99cents said:


> I meant taking out the rubbish.


Ok ok, I'll take the silly goose award for this one.

But I wasn't alone, kolyan2k thought the same thing :biggrin:


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## readydave8

99cents said:


> These are some things that I will let the customer or GC do to save a few loonies:
> 
> Put on cover plates.


Had a customer (a long time ago) put on his own cover plates

a while later he called me to complain that they were crooked:biggrin:


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