# GC's beating me up



## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

I've really been getting beat up and low balled by GC's lately. All telling me I'm too high and need to come down. Where are you guys at with recessed lights standard 5" with white baffle and outlets cost per. All new construction/additions so everything is always all open and easy access to panel. I'm starting to second guess myself and thinking maybe I am high. Won't tell you my numbers Til after responses. Don't way to sway answers just want honest answers thanks


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

New construction around here is like $45-55 per can.


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

$45????? Where's ur profit??? I use 5" juno I'm in them for close to $26 can trim bulb. Not to mention wire switch and of course time. I don't know how you make any money at that price unless I'm missing something


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Fear not, someone will be along to answer your question or give you some advice. :thumbsup:

...in the meantime.

Figure out what's the lowest you can go and still meet your profit objective? Only you know what your overhead is and what your willing to settle for in profit. 

Why don't you save some time and just ask the GC's where you need to be? Can't hurt.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

brady.electric said:


> $45????? Where's ur profit??? I use 5" juno I'm in them for close to $26 can trim bulb. Not to mention wire switch and of course time. I don't know how you make any money at that price unless I'm missing something


You asked what the new construction price was. There it is.

Are you pricing these jobs per unit or sq ft?


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

New construction pricing for 4" can is $75 per opening, 6" can is $65 per opening. Rough and final.


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

45 per outlet is reasonable how can you do a 5" recessed light for $45 and make a profit????


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

brady.electric said:


> $45????? Where's ur profit??? I use 5" juno I'm in them for close to $26 can trim bulb. Not to mention wire switch and of course time. I don't know how you make any money at that price unless I'm missing something


You are getting absolutely destroyed on your pricing. Where are you buying at? A 4" can with trim and bulb runs me $15.50. A 6" is only $13.80. Sounds like you need to shop around more. We use Juno and Nora. Whichever is in stock lol


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah, what 3d said. Your paying way to much for your materials.


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

Local supply house in my area. Best pricing bewtween other supply houses. How are you getting 4" juno that cheap?? Your 6" is where my prices are but never use 6" haven't for years. Where are you at on your 5" juno?


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

Maybe so MHE but please explain to me how you are making a profit at 45$ light??? That's the kinda numbers the craigslist cowboys throw around. Again unless I'm missing something I just don't see how you make a profit consider material cost,time,fuel,and overhead 


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

So let's say a contractor called you to wire a basement he framed. You would only charge him $45 per recessed light??? I wouldn't get out of bed for that. Just my opinion


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## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

brady.electric said:


> So let's say a contractor called you to wire a basement he framed. You would only charge him $45 per recessed light??? I wouldn't get out of bed for that. Just my opinion Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


no, we would charge to wire the basement, plus 45.00 per each can


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

brady.electric said:


> I've really been getting beat up and low balled by GC's lately. All telling me I'm too high and need to come down. Where are you guys at with recessed lights standard 5" with white baffle and outlets cost per. All new construction/additions so everything is always all open and easy access to panel. I'm starting to second guess myself and thinking maybe I am high. Won't tell you my numbers Til after responses. Don't way to sway answers just want honest answers thanks


You have to be high working for GC's and letting them tell you what to charge:no:


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

that's $1,000 for 22.3 cans.

Why bother,,,:no:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm driving right now, but I'll respond as soon as I get off the road.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Does the GC own the Electrical Co?

What number do you suppose whould make him the happiest?

Why would the GC say your bid was real close to the winner?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

gc's beating up a contractor caught on camera
http://media.photobucket.com/user/smilingjackchance/media/Picture16-22.png.html?filters[term]=beating%20a%20dead%20horse&filters[primary]=images&filters[secondary]=videos&sort=1&o=19


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Most of the _'cost per can' _ focus out there is going to HD for the 6 pack cheapo's

We install them, all we ask is proper listing /rating , no worries of warranty 

They _think_ they're getting a deal

We _let them _think they're getting a deal

~CS~


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

3D Electric said:


> New construction pricing for 4" can is $75 per opening, 6" can is $65 per opening. Rough and final.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

You're going to make this guy die poor and tired. 

Brady, you live in the northeast/dc corridor. You can't compare farm prices to certain regions. Call a couple contractors in the area and see what they get. We are considerably higher than $75/can, and so is every EC I know.

If you want to work in the area, it helps to live somewhat in the area. And charging those prices, you will lose any money on fuel!


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Depending upon your supply house(s) and volume you deal in you may be able to see about a quantity discount if you need to lower your fixture costs. As for what you charge maybe try to sell it better? Do you have a somewhat good repor with the GCs? Do you get their work done on time if not early? Are you dependable? Sell your self with your price. A EC buddy of mine I work with on and off has been helping me become more confident in that regard. But remember some GCs only want bottom barrel prices, those aren't the ones I want to work for.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

brady.electric said:


> 45 per outlet is reasonable how can you do a 5" recessed light for $45 and make a profit????
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


Hell I know I'm going to piss someone off on here but here it goes. I am charging 20 per recept or single pole opening, 28 for three way, 34 for 4 way. I do a TON of new construction for ********* housing. You really need to consider where you are at and what volume you are moving in. I do probably 3-4 houses a month on top of all the other crap I do. Square D Home line panels, leviton devices, allied black plastic nailons, fiberglass ceiling boxes (got tired of breaking screws). I can send my guys in and rough in a 4 bed house in two days and one to finish it. Just need to be fast and find a good supplier. I actually use four different supply houses because I'm a cheap bastard.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Also I make them deliver everything to either my shop or the job. Don't waste your gas, they'll deliver that crap for free!


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## fp.unit (Dec 18, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> that's $1,000 for 22.3 cans.
> 
> Why bother,,,:no:


because your apprentice can have that done by early afternoon and you paid him 150 to do it


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

brady.electric said:


> I've really been getting beat up and low balled by GC's lately. All telling me I'm too high and need to come down. Where are you guys at with recessed lights standard 5" with white baffle and outlets cost per. All new construction/additions so everything is always all open and easy access to panel. I'm starting to second guess myself and thinking maybe I am high. Won't tell you my numbers Til after responses. Don't way to sway answers just want honest answers thanks


The only good GC is a dead GC.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> The only good GC is a dead GC.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

3D Electric said:


> Hell I know I'm going to piss someone off on here but here it goes. I am charging 20 per recept or single pole opening, 28 for three way, 34 for 4 way. I do a TON of new construction for ********* housing. You really need to consider where you are at and what volume you are moving in. I do probably 3-4 houses a month on top of all the other crap I do. Square D Home line panels, leviton devices, allied black plastic nailons, fiberglass ceiling boxes (got tired of breaking screws). I can send my guys in and rough in a 4 bed house in two days and one to finish it. Just need to be fast and find a good supplier. I actually use four different supply houses because I'm a cheap bastard.


3 decades ago i worked the ski bunny condo gig , they were all cookie cutter models, it was all speed, and speed methods. 

We'd rough one a day, ready for ins. /rock the next

The EC had the fast part of the _good/fast/cheap_ axiom in his back pocket

I learned a lot from him

~CS~


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

3D Electric said:


> Also I make them deliver everything to either my shop or the job. Don't waste your gas, they'll deliver that crap for free!


all good stuff !


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

Fp unit....sure it's a 1000 and you only pay your apprentice 150 but what about material cost,fuel,overhead,return trip to trim out,there is no profit it in at that price I don't care how cheap you get your material. My profit margin is greater than $45 can. I don't know how some of you guys make a living. Most be very different cost of living in different areas 


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

I agree svh I am much more then $75 can as well. Where are you guys at to old work a can. I'm between 170-200 depending on access etc. I'm sure some of you guys will say your old working cans for 90 each or some crazy profit lacking number


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The idea is profit _making_, not profit_ lacking_ Brady....:whistling2:~CS~


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

Yea no kidding chicken Steve. That's my point. These guys are throwing numbers around with no profit. Don't know how or why they do it. Must be different areas I suppose


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Demographics play a role Brady. 

All the national _pimp-us-out _companies, as well as consumer advocate sites like Angie's etc catalog what we are, do & cost

This is because _we _, as a trade,_ give them _the information they need to spit an average market $$ back out.

None of us are posting $500 a can, are we? ....:whistling2:

So we will always , forever and a day, price out with the spectre of competitiveness AND maintain a company in the black

Capitalism , it's what's for dinner! :thumbup:

~CS~


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

brady.electric said:


> Fp unit....sure it's a 1000 and you only pay your apprentice 150 but what about material cost,fuel,overhead,return trip to trim out,there is no profit it in at that price I don't care how cheap you get your material. My profit margin is greater than $45 can. I don't know how some of you guys make a living. Most be very different cost of living in different areas
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


That's giving the work away:no:

I'm selling the LED trims now and getting a lot more per can, because I sell it as premium and tell them about their savings from the power bill, that adds up fast when you have cans in every room...sell the dimmer switches with it so you can jack up the profit even more.


Once a GC starts telling you what to charge it's time to seek other work because he will dump you when you least expect it.

GC's should be asking the EC what it will cost, then sell the job with his markup included.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Too much emphasis here on material costs. Certainly I know where my best deals are and what I can get away with but, in this business, time is money. 

3D nailed it. Be frugal with material costs but be prepared and hit the ground running. It's easy to say and difficult to practice. Every day I struggle with preparation, scheduling and efficiency.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

99cents said:


> Too much emphasis here on material costs. Certainly I know where my best deals are and what I can get away with but, in this business, time is money.
> 
> 3D nailed it. Be frugal with material costs but be prepared and hit the ground running. It's easy to say and difficult to practice. Every day I struggle with preparation, scheduling and efficiency.


I'm working alone later today---- there will be no efficiency:laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> I'm working alone later today---- there will be no efficiency:laughing:


Me too :laughing:

Some days this isn't a business, it's a hobby...


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Black Dog said:


> That's giving the work away:no:
> 
> I'm selling the LED trims now and getting a lot more per can, because I sell it as premium and tell them about their savings from the power bill, that adds up fast when you have cans in every room...sell the dimmer switches with it so you can jack up the profit even more.
> 
> ...


Now you're talking! I love upgrades. I don't like the led trims though. If you put them in a kitchen and a few years later one fails even if they are covered under a warranty it will not match the others because of yellowing. I like standard trims with led lamps. Also I install led under cabinet lighting that we cut and solder into place. As I said, I love upgrades. The led lamps I buy have a 15 year warranty, are dimmable, and have a great color spectrum. On top of that they only run me about 10.25 for a br30. The standard a19 lamps run me about 3.75 each.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

That $45 a can was no joke. When I did new construction, that's what I got. That's also what the guys that do nothing but new houses charge. It's tough.

Now, that's not remodel/addition prices, it new construction, but that's what you asked for right? Here's how you make a profit at that price - you buy it as cheap as possible, you spend all of 30 seconds laying them out real quick, you slam 'em in, you never look back.

Maybe this answers your question? Also, I used 4" cans and I don't do new construction much anymore.


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## brady.electric (Aug 22, 2014)

Maybe for new construction when you have a contract for tons of houses and you have wire monkeys throwing them in for you I could maybe understand $45 a can using the cheapest crap cans and trims. But no way for additions and renovations that is basically new construction because it's all open and additions usually new framing 


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

brady.electric said:


> Maybe for new construction when you have a contract for tons of houses and you have wire monkeys throwing them in for you I could maybe understand $45 a can using the cheapest crap cans and trims. But no way for additions and renovations that is basically new construction because it's all open and additions usually new framing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


Sounds like there is a little confusion here..originally it looked like you were asking for new construction prices, and here it sounds like you're doing remodels. 2 different animals, and the prices are much different. Charge more on your remodels.

Slamming & jamming, that's the name of the game with new construction. Hard to compete in that market unless your fast fast fast and you get your materials for really cheap, especially around here.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Recess can installation for new construction - Prices starting from $145 each. 

Basic 6'' halo, basic white baffle trim, basic 65w incan lamp. 


Demographics do seem to matter, cause I like 3D's new shop but he could never afford to build that puppy around here charging $65 or $60 a can light.....


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## stwp (Sep 13, 2014)

macmikeman said:


> Recess can installation for new construction - Prices starting from $145 each.
> 
> Basic 6'' halo, basic white baffle trim, basic 65w incan lamp.
> 
> ...


Yup, this post is right on.

My 6" high hats start at $125/each and that is when they are super easy and require very limited layout work.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HA HA, you beat my edit to death that I changed after re-reading the entire thread again........:laughing:


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

3D Electric said:


> Now you're talking! I love upgrades. I don't like the led trims though. If you put them in a kitchen and a few years later one fails even if they are covered under a warranty it will not match the others because of yellowing. I like standard trims with led lamps. Also I install led under cabinet lighting that we cut and solder into place. As I said, I love upgrades. The led lamps I buy have a 15 year warranty, are dimmable, and have a great color spectrum. On top of that they only run me about 10.25 for a br30. The standard a19 lamps run me about 3.75 each.


Links my friend so we all can order some...:thumbup:


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## stwp (Sep 13, 2014)

Mikey, I live to torment you.









Well, not really... but once in a while is fun.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Black Dog said:


> Links my friend so we all can order some...:thumbup:


http://www.menards.com/main/mobile/p-2345610-c-7482.htm

This is the br30 I will find the a19 in a bit. They work wonderfully and I haven't had any issues with them.


Edit: I cannot find a link for the A19. I can tell you it is also a Polaroid and covered with the 15 year warranty. It is a 3000k 12 watt led round top lamp.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Recess can installation for new construction - Prices starting from $145 each.
> 
> Basic 6'' halo, basic white baffle trim, basic 65w incan lamp.
> 
> Demographics do seem to matter, cause I like 3D's new shop but he could never afford to build that puppy around here charging $65 or $60 a can light.....


That's why I like good old Kansas. The cost of living is so much lower here.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Recess can installation for new construction - Prices starting from $145 each.
> 
> Basic 6'' halo, basic white baffle trim, basic 65w incan lamp.
> 
> Demographics do seem to matter, cause I like 3D's new shop but he could never afford to build that puppy around here charging $65 or $60 a can light.....


That's why I like Kansas. The cost of living is so much lower. You can buy a very nice higher end house for close to $300K


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

3D Electric said:


> http://www.menards.com/main/mobile/p-2345610-c-7482.htm
> 
> This is the br30 I will find the a19 in a bit. They work wonderfully and I haven't had any issues with them.
> 
> ...


Nice, I did not know that Polaroid was making light bulbs:laughing:


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Black Dog said:


> Nice, I did not know that Polaroid was making light bulbs:laughing:


The thing that sold me was the 15 year warranty. I haven't seen anything with that type of a warranty.


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