# Kinking conduit as I bend, me or the bender!?



## greg11

Hi guys, using a Greenlee 3/4" bender, I can't seem to nail down why the pipe keeps kinking. I don't think it's me, as I apply firm and steady pressure (some guys I work with "bounce" on the pipe several times to complete their bend, it looks very stupid).

Sometimes the bend will go well, but other times it goes smooth and then you feel the pipe sorta "pop" downward, and you know it just kinked.

Also, is anyone else somewhat astonished at how many electricians don't know what they're doing? I see some that are bending saddles and offsets by "eyeballing," with no use of measuring, multipliers or any concept of the math/marks on the benders. I'm a fresh 2nd year and it sucks wanting to learn this the "right way" when everyone seems to be a hack.

I mean, eyeballing is great, and I do it sometimes, but most people I see doing it end up doing the same bend about 5-6 times because they're "messing it up, tweak, messed it up, tweak again, still messed up, tweak a little more, nope, tweak again, got it!!" 

Then they laugh at me for measuring, and getting it right the first time.... 

Anyway....

Thanks boys!


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## MDShunk

It might be the bender, but it's probably you. 3/4 is bubble gum. Can't think of any reason to kink 3/4". 

You using the right size bender? Not using a dedicated 3/4" RMC bender on EMT? 

Use foot pressure only. Use the handle just to get your balance. Bouncing would actually be more correct than not bouncing if you need more foot pressure. 3/4" is soft enough to bend handle-down, in your arm pit, for lots of the bends.


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## BDB

Foot pressure foot pressure foot pressure...oh did I say foot pressure!!!


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## TimChaput69

Has anyone mentioned foot pressure? Need more pressure on the foot when bending and not so much on the handle, I'm a light weight guy so I also bounce a bit when bending.....you should se me on a piece of 1"1/4 conduit!!


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## Wirenuting

TimChaput69 said:


> Has anyone mentioned foot pressure? Need more pressure on the foot when bending and not so much on the handle, I'm a light weight guy so I also bounce a bit when bending.....you should se me on a piece of 1"1/4 conduit!!


^ x2 ^

1 1/4" is fun to bend, all day, by hand, in the middle of a room...


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## RePhase277

Make sure the shoe is round along the radius. I dropped a bender from a good height once and it ovaled part of the shoe. It would always kink after that.

And since no one else is willing to mention it, I will say FOOT PRESSURE!:laughing:


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## Chris Kennedy

greg11 said:


> Also, is anyone else somewhat astonished at how many electricians don't know what they're doing?


Nope, I live in Miami, I'm used to it.


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## B4T

The really shiny EMT that almost looks chrome gets ripples in the bend no matter what you do... the EMT is garbage... :no::no:

I like the EMT that is dull in color with blue marking the length of the conduit... much softer metal...


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## greg11

MDShunk said:


> It might be the bender, but it's probably you. 3/4 is bubble gum. Can't think of any reason to kink 3/4".
> 
> You using the right size bender? Not using a dedicated 3/4" RMC bender on EMT?
> 
> Use foot pressure only. Use the handle just to get your balance. Bouncing would actually be more correct than not bouncing if you need more foot pressure. 3/4" is soft enough to bend handle-down, in your arm pit, for lots of the bends.


Shoulda mentioned, this is handle down bending. In the pit.

Same with the guys who are bouncing the EMT. They're bouncing with the handle down...

Also, I'm bending 4-bend saddles a lot right now (ceiling beams and job requirements that we stay as high as possible at all times). So, bending on the floor isn't possible for the saddles... 

I bent 3 bends out of my 4, all perfect. Then, on the last bend, KINK! Seems to happen a lot. "Damn it!!!"


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## jza

greg11 said:


> Hi guys, using a Greenlee 3/4" bender, I can't seem to nail down why the pipe keeps kinking. I don't think it's me, as I apply firm and steady pressure (some guys I work with "bounce" on the pipe several times to complete their bend, it looks very stupid).
> 
> Sometimes the bend will go well, but other times it goes smooth and then you feel the pipe sorta "pop" downward, and you know it just kinked.
> 
> Also, is anyone else somewhat astonished at how many electricians don't know what they're doing? I see some that are bending saddles and offsets by "eyeballing," with no use of measuring, multipliers or any concept of the math/marks on the benders. I'm a fresh 2nd year and it sucks wanting to learn this the "right way" when everyone seems to be a hack.
> 
> I mean, eyeballing is great, and I do it sometimes, but most people I see doing it end up doing the same bend about 5-6 times because they're "messing it up, tweak, messed it up, tweak again, still messed up, tweak a little more, nope, tweak again, got it!!"
> 
> Then they laugh at me for measuring, and getting it right the first time....
> 
> Anyway....
> 
> Thanks boys!


Use more foot pressure. Those guys you see "bouncing", they aren't kinking the pipe, you and your ****ty technique are. I've never kinked a piece of 3/4 in my life, even bending it with a 1" bender. 

As for eyeing it out. I'll eye out pipe all day and run circles around you and your stupid measuring tape.


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## 480sparky

greg11 said:


> Shoulda mentioned, this is handle down bending. In the pit............


This means you're leaning your bender against the wall......with the head up and handle down......... so the bender can fall over........ and strike the floor................. messing it all to he11.


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## darren79

jza said:


> I've never kinked a piece of 3/4 in my life, even bending it with a 1" bender.
> 
> As for eyeing it out. I'll eye out pipe all day and run circles around you and your stupid measuring tape.



I find that hard to believe you have never kinked a piece of 3/4 pipe. I have when I try to get more bend in an offset then is physically possible with the bender. Doesn't happen very often but when trying to do something unconventional it may happen.


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## drsparky

High chrome (shinny EMT) sucks to bend, we once sent a master bundle (5000') back to the supply house because no one could bend it without kinking.


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## greg11

jza said:


> Use more foot pressure. Those guys you see "bouncing", they aren't kinking the pipe, you and your ****ty technique are. I've never kinked a piece of 3/4 in my life, even bending it with a 1" bender.
> 
> As for eyeing it out. I'll eye out pipe all day and run circles around you and your stupid measuring tape.


I don't know man, they are always missing their angles, usually putting 55 degrees into the pipe when they need 45 degrees. Perhaps you're right, that if you're good at it, it's better technique, but the people I'm seeing aren't getting *results*, which is how I gauge how good someone's technique (or their application of said technique).

WRT your comment about being faster than me, and your skill at eyeballing; again, that's you. You're obviously skilled enough to pull off some serious eyeball-work. I, on the other hand, am not. For now, I'll stick with my measuring tape, as I don't think my boss would appreciate me wasting piles and piles of pipe after I screw up my "eyeballing".

This is not to say that, someday, I won't be capable of eyeballing stuff in the future. But, for now, I need that tape. And it's working well for me.

However, as I said, the whole eyeballing thing *isn't* working out for the people on my particular job. They're tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. They've got a room filled with a pile of screwed up attempts at kicked 90's and offsets and saddles. They aren't as good at eyeballing as you are, and they're all over me to "eyeball it" along with them. I refuse.

Like I said, you're obviously better than these guys. I'd like to work with you because you'd learn me a thing or two for sure. Maybe I'd develop my eyeballing skills as well (something I'd like to learn eventually)

!!


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## FastFokker

greg11 said:


> Also, is anyone else somewhat astonished at how many electricians don't know what they're doing?


I kept getting on sites where the foremen would only put people on pipe who knew how to bend pipe. How the hell was I supposed to get experience? 

Eventually I just lied and said I could, so that I could learn.. I had to teach myself and I probably have no idea what I'm doing compared to traditional bending.

That kind of stuff happens in non-union, I suppose.


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## D-Bo

wheatland has been good to me as well as allied. republic has given me grief before. but like someone mentioned, in that size it shouldn't really matter. steady foot pressure with a well kept bending head should produce perfect results. foot pressure helps too


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## local134gt

greg11 said:


> Shoulda mentioned, this is handle down bending. In the pit.


Then make sure to keep pressure on the pipe close to the head. Don't use leverage to bend it


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## jza

greg11 said:


> I don't know man, they are always missing their angles, usually putting 55 degrees into the pipe when they need 45 degrees. Perhaps you're right, that if you're good at it, it's better technique, but the people I'm seeing aren't getting *results*, which is how I gauge how good someone's technique (or their application of said technique).
> 
> WRT your comment about being faster than me, and your skill at eyeballing; again, that's you. You're obviously skilled enough to pull off some serious eyeball-work. I, on the other hand, am not. For now, I'll stick with my measuring tape, as I don't think my boss would appreciate me wasting piles and piles of pipe after I screw up my "eyeballing".
> 
> This is not to say that, someday, I won't be capable of eyeballing stuff in the future. But, for now, I need that tape. And it's working well for me.
> 
> However, as I said, the whole eyeballing thing *isn't* working out for the people on my particular job. They're tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. They've got a room filled with a pile of screwed up attempts at kicked 90's and offsets and saddles. They aren't as good at eyeballing as you are, and they're all over me to "eyeball it" along with them. I refuse.
> 
> Like I said, you're obviously better than these guys. I'd like to work with you because you'd learn me a thing or two for sure. Maybe I'd develop my eyeballing skills as well (something I'd like to learn eventually)
> 
> !!


Making mistakes and scarping pieces of pipe is part of the game. If I spent my days worrying about scraping a few feet from a $5 stick of EMT I wouldn't get anywhere. Labour wasted measuring a simple 4 point saddle adds up, fast.


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## greg11

jza said:


> Making mistakes and scarping pieces of pipe is part of the game. If I spent my days worrying about scraping a few feet from a $5 stick of EMT I wouldn't get anywhere. Labour wasted measuring a simple 4 point saddle adds up, fast.


So would the time invested in a single piece of pipe, only to put it up on the ceiling to see that it's totally fubar'd and won't work (repeat 3 times), no?

I take 30-40 seconds to measure, make my marks, make the bends, put it up, done. They're still bending, and rebending, and rebending, when I'm done and moved on.

I'm not talking about 4 bend saddles, specifically. 

I only mentioned the 4 bend because it was a particular piss off at the end of the day.


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## local134gt

jza said:


> Labour wasted measuring a simple 4 point saddle adds up, fast.


I call BS... No way in hell you can bend a 4 point saddle without measuring and have it come out right first try if ever.


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## D-Bo

local134gt said:


> I call BS... No way in hell you can bend a 4 point saddle without measuring and have it come out right first try if ever.


I'll take one measurement to center of obstruction if I'm in a hurry and I don't even like doing that


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## 480sparky

local134gt said:


> I call BS... No way in hell you can bend a 4 point saddle without measuring and have it come out right first try if ever.


Wanna bet?


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## jza

local134gt said:


> I call BS... No way in hell you can bend a 4 point saddle without measuring and have it come out right first try if ever.


A union member would say that.







3...2...1...


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## jza

greg11 said:


> So would the time invested in a single piece of pipe, only to put it up on the ceiling to see that it's totally fubar'd and won't work (repeat 3 times), no?
> 
> I take 30-40 seconds to measure, make my marks, make the bends, put it up, done. They're still bending, and rebending, and rebending, when I'm done and moved on.
> 
> I'm not talking about 4 bend saddles, specifically.
> 
> I only mentioned the 4 bend because it was a particular piss off at the end of the day.


What about all the **** calculations you were talking about?


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## D-Bo

480sparky said:


> Wanna bet?


Really? Eyeballing the offsets is simple enough but if you screw up your center mark you're cutting your conduit or rebending. My hats off to you sir if you can do it all on the fly


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## local134gt

jza said:


> A union member would say that.
> 
> 3...2...1...


I'll bite.... Your a POS douche bag for that comment. You have never and will never hear me bash anyone for being non-union. But morons like you keep the stupid feud going. 

If you are running pipe exposed and are not measuring saddles you are a complete hack, union or not.


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## k_buz

> If you are running pipe exposed and are not measuring saddles you are a complete hack, union or not.


I don't care who you are...that's funny right there.:laughing:


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## varmit

If you are installing multiple parallel runs of conduit, in an exposed area, proper layout and measuring CAN BE much faster and look more neat, for most folks.

It is sad, but some folks don't measure and lay out their bends because they don't know how to do the math.

As for as the kinking, as previously mentioned, some brands of EMT, usually the shiny stuff, are almost impossible to bend more than 30 degrees without kinking. If you are bending "handle down", be sure to have your hand grip, on the pipe, as close as possible to the bender shoe. The further away from the bender that your hands are, the more potential for kinking.


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## jza

local134gt said:


> I'll bite.... Your a POS douche bag for that comment. You have never and will never hear me bash anyone for being non-union. But morons like you keep the stupid feud going.
> 
> If you are running pipe exposed and are not measuring saddles you are a complete hack, union or not.


You'd never know I didn't measure it. How about that BROTHER.


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## TGGT

The greenlee benders are notorious for kinking pipe. I never kinked small conduit making a simple 90 with any other bender. That's also the consensus I've gotten from coworkers, so it's not just one defective bender, or my lack of skill.


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## cdnelectrician

jza said:


> What about all the **** calculations you were talking about?


Every electrician should know his conduit calculations, I personally have not seen any half decent looking conduit work coming from guys that don't measure first.


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## Jlarson

Oh no, not the eye balling vs. measuring bends sh1t. 

This is just as ******** as sharpie vs. pencil, ground up vs. ground down, conduit vs. MC, conduit vs. tray.......


It's electrical work, move along now. :laughing:


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## smiley mcrib

Jlarson said:


> Oh no, not the eye balling vs. measuring bends sh1t.
> 
> This is just as ******** as sharpie vs. pencil, ground up vs. ground down, conduit vs. MC, conduit vs. tray.......
> 
> It's electrical work, move along now. :laughing:


Grounds down is the correct way.


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## frenchelectrican

The shiney EMT conduit is the worst I have to deal they like to kink up very easy but I always find a way to get around them is add a lube on the bender (yeah I know I heard ya say :blink: but let me remind ya I do clean it when it get done ) that will useally make it slide better.

As other poster mention the key item is foot pressure if you put a steady pressure it will bend very nice.

I have done inverted postion aka hand operated as well ( not the easy thing to do but it is doable )

The standard EMT conduit is not a issue they can bend pretty fast.

It don't matter if you have cast iron or alum bending shoe the key item is keep the grove clean without any debries or any type of UFO sticking inside of it that useally can ruin your day if not check on that from time to time.

Merci,
Marc


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## TimChaput69

I've also found that with the "shinny" EMT it helps if you find the seam and bend away from it, meaning put the seam opposite the bender shoe. I had a bucket load of "shinny" 1" a couple years ago that would kink once you got to about 75°, started placing the seam away and didn't have any more issues. Like some else mentioned here before, if your bending in the air apply pressure to the pipe as close to the shoe as you can and use your body weight also.


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## Amish Electrician

The pipe is kinking because you're letting it slide in the shoe. It's not so much about using a lot of pressure, as it is about using steady pressure. 

Solution might be to put a wire brush on an angle grinder and clean out the inside of the shoe. Or, get one of the Ideal balck benders.

Is the handle slipping on the floor? Cover the end with a crutch tip.

You want to measure? Measure! Whatever works for you. You're still learning, and your habits will probably change over time. All those guys who are 'doing it by eye' are also measuring, they're just doing it in their heads.


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## Fishingeveryday

Amish Electrician said:


> The pipe is kinking because you're letting it slide in the shoe. It's not so much about using a lot of pressure, as it is about using steady pressure.
> 
> Solution might be to put a wire brush on an angle grinder and clean out the inside of the shoe. Or, get one of the Ideal balck benders.
> 
> Is the handle slipping on the floor? Cover the end with a crutch tip.
> 
> You want to measure? Measure! Whatever works for you. You're still learning, and your habits will probably change over time. All those guys who are 'doing it by eye' are also measuring, they're just doing it in their heads.


One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the proximity of your bends. I have noticed lots of guys measure up their pipe and blindly bend away. Sometimes if it is a small offset or saddle you need to back off the boot enough so you don't affect the previous bend. Regardless of what the measurements say. Kinks every time if you don't. 

I was also taught to step up tight to the back of the bender, shove the pipe in your armpit, and bring your legs up to your body to make a solid consistent weight on the pipe. It was very helpful to learn the consistent pressure and location on the pipe required to avoid kinks. Also helps if your a small guy who hadn't developed the muscle yet. 

Lastly, talking crap about peoples pipe work is the easiest way to lose friends on a job. You are a second year. Shut up and do your job. Its not your responsibility to tell others how to do theirs. If you are good the boss will notice and better jobs and pay will come. It's better to have a laugh at work then people thinking your a know it all apprentice. Jm2c.


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## dtmartin408

All I've got to say about eyeballing pipe is good luck when your running banks of pipe. The guys who eyeball can't really bend pipe all they are doing is simple pipe runs with one run of pipe. Try that with multiple runs of pipe right next to one another or with rigid and lets see how good your eyeballing skills are then.


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## drumnut08

greg11 said:


> Hi guys, using a Greenlee 3/4" bender, I can't seem to nail down why the pipe keeps kinking. I don't think it's me, as I apply firm and steady pressure (some guys I work with "bounce" on the pipe several times to complete their bend, it looks very stupid).
> 
> Sometimes the bend will go well, but other times it goes smooth and then you feel the pipe sorta "pop" downward, and you know it just kinked.
> 
> Also, is anyone else somewhat astonished at how many electricians don't know what they're doing? I see some that are bending saddles and offsets by "eyeballing," with no use of measuring, multipliers or any concept of the math/marks on the benders. I'm a fresh 2nd year and it sucks wanting to learn this the "right way" when everyone seems to be a hack.
> 
> I mean, eyeballing is great, and I do it sometimes, but most people I see doing it end up doing the same bend about 5-6 times because they're "messing it up, tweak, messed it up, tweak again, still messed up, tweak a little more, nope, tweak again, got it!!"
> 
> Then they laugh at me for measuring, and getting it right the first time....
> 
> Anyway....
> 
> Thanks boys!


I've never been a fan of the greenlee benders since they came out . I had one that was kinking pipe , so I grabbed an ideal or Klein and bent the same piece of EMT with no different technique and it wasn't even rippled . The start of the radius on the greenlee was not smooth at all like the ideal . It could have been dropped or a manufacturing defect , but it wasn't me or the pipe . As far as bending conduit the right way , that's really up to the person . I'm more of a mark it out and bend it to fit once kind of guy , but I've worked with a few guys that don't mark a thing , eyeball everything and it's some of the nicest conduit work I've ever seen ! Some people just possess that skill with conduit , others don't , but it is possible .


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## 480sparky

smiley mcrib said:


> Grounds down is the correct way.


Eyeballing bends in the ground wires with a Sharpie is the correct method.


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## Wirenuting

480sparky said:


> Eyeballing bends in the ground wires with a Sharpie is the correct method.


China marker!!!!!!


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## TGGT

drumnut08 said:


> I've never been a fan of the greenlee benders since they came out . I had one that was kinking pipe , so I grabbed an ideal or Klein and bent the same piece of EMT with no different technique and it wasn't even rippled . The start of the radius on the greenlee was not smooth at all like the ideal . It could have been dropped or a manufacturing defect , but it wasn't me or the pipe . As far as bending conduit the right way , that's really up to the person . I'm more of a mark it out and bend it to fit once kind of guy , but I've worked with a few guys that don't mark a thing , eyeball everything and it's some of the nicest conduit work I've ever seen ! Some people just possess that skill with conduit , others don't , but it is possible .


My whole job is supplied with mostly greenlee benders. I see kinks and ripples everywhere. Ideal or klein, preferably the iron shoe. Haven't used the GB benders enough to have an opinion on them.


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## 04gixx6

drumnut08 said:


> I've never been a fan of the greenlee benders since they came out . I had one that was kinking pipe , so I grabbed an ideal or Klein and bent the same piece of EMT with no different technique and it wasn't even rippled . The start of the radius on the greenlee was not smooth at all like the ideal . It could have been dropped or a manufacturing defect , but it wasn't me or the pipe . As far as bending conduit the right way , that's really up to the person . I'm more of a mark it out and bend it to fit once kind of guy , but I've worked with a few guys that don't mark a thing , eyeball everything and it's some of the nicest conduit work I've ever seen ! Some people just possess that skill with conduit , others don't , but it is possible .


Yep, not a fan of Greenlee benders either. I don't like the layout marks compared to Klein or Ideal. They are huge compared to the nice line on the other two. 30 degrees isn't with the handle at 90 which seems to be the norm with the others also. I just haven't been able to be very consistent with them.


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## eejack

jza said:


> As for eyeing it out. I'll eye out pipe all day and run circles around you and your stupid measuring tape.


LOL.

I like these guys who claim this. Next time you have to bend identical bends on a rack - like say a 10 offsets all right next to each other - take a picture and post it here.

Here is some of that nasty using a measuring tape pipe.


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## 360max

jza said:


> You'd never know I didn't measure it. How about that BROTHER.


...on multiply runs, any conduit pro would pick that up in a second, kid.. Continue trolling!!


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## eejack

jza said:


> An electrician would say that.
> 
> 3...2...1...


Fixed it for you.


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## Jlarson

I never got why when someone says they "eyeball" conduit others instantly assume they meant they do it to every piece of conduit they bend. "Eyeballing" and measuring both have their time and place.


When I do racks of conduit or process lines I measure, when I'm running a run or two of 1/2", 3/4", 1", sometimes larger pipe or conduit around I usually don't measure, sometimes I do, all depends.


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## jimmy21

Single pipes, sure, you can get away with not measuring. If you have multiple pipes its going to look like hell if you don't calculate and measure. When working with racks of multiple pipes, you can pretty easily tell the guys that know what they are doing from the guys that are just faking it


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## uconduit

eejack said:


> LOL.
> 
> I like these guys who claim this. Next time you have to bend identical bends on a rack - like say a 10 offsets all right next to each other - take a picture and post it here.
> 
> Here is some of that nasty using a measuring tape pipe.


I wonder if it's worth it to measure 4" rigid....


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## 480sparky

Wait.... since when did we start talking about 4" rigid? Since when did you start bending 4" rigid under your armpits?

I thought the thread was about ¾" EMT!


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## uconduit

480sparky said:


> Wait.... since when did we start talking about 4" rigid? Since when did you start bending 4" rigid under your armpits?
> 
> I thought the thread was about ¾" EMT!


i digress...


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## oww-is-that-hot?

What's funny is that the people who say they eyeball it are really just resi guys that don't know the NEEDED calculations. Not that resi guys aren't electricians, they just know different aspects of the trade than we do and the same goes for us and pipe bending. I've worked with and for some real old school electricians and they don't eyeball saddles or offsets or 90's. Yes kicks get eyeballed alot, even by me- the stupid third year day laborer. These guys are good, and REALLY into saving a dollar. Kicks = eyeballed pretty often, 90's= eyeballed every so often when the CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW. Offsets = RARELY. Saddles= HECK NO. Cmon dude, your full of it. if you can't read a tape measurer just say so...


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## oww-is-that-hot?

Now about the kinks... I dunno what your issue is. I've kinked 1" a time or two, and 1¼" once and that's it. We have a greenlee and an ideal for pretty much each size except our biggin' which is GB. I've never kinked anything else unless it was on purpose and I only weigh a buck-fifty or so, so I have a heck of a time with the 1" and up emt. All I can say is that I just use about 99% foot pressure...


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## sparky970

uconduit said:


> I wonder if it's worth it to measure 4" rigid....


Not if you have a good eye. :whistling2


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## Wirenuting

Besides a bad bundle, I think the worse thing for kinking conduit is a worn or bent bender. 
If you have the skill and practice, kinking it isn't easy. 
That's why I never lend my benders to anyone if they want to take them out of my sight. 

Oh ya, I eye ball every bend. I have 20/20 hind sight.


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## brian john

We had a load 1" pipe that kinked very easy, also had an 1-1/4" bender that was famous for kinking, got a different bender and no problem.


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## backstay

oww-is-that-hot? said:


> What's funny is that the people who say they eyeball it are really just resi guys that don't know the NEEDED calculations. Not that resi guys aren't electricians, they just know different aspects of the trade than we do and the same goes for us and pipe bending. I've worked with and for some real old school electricians and they don't eyeball saddles or offsets or 90's. Yes kicks get eyeballed alot, even by me- the stupid third year day laborer. These guys are good, and REALLY into saving a dollar. Kicks = eyeballed pretty often, 90's= eyeballed every so often when the CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW. Offsets = RARELY. Saddles= HECK NO. Cmon dude, your full of it. if you can't read a tape measurer just say so...


Third year that knows it all, oh please.


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## jza

Jlarson said:


> I never got why when someone says they "eyeball" conduit others instantly assume they meant they do it to every piece of conduit they bend. "Eyeballing" and measuring both have their time and place.
> 
> 
> When I do racks of conduit or process lines I measure, when I'm running a run or two of 1/2", 3/4", 1", sometimes larger pipe or conduit around I usually don't measure, sometimes I do, all depends.


This guy's got it.



eejack said:


> LOL.
> 
> I like these guys who claim this. Next time you have to bend identical bends on a rack - like say a 10 offsets all right next to each other - take a picture and post it here.
> 
> Here is some of that nasty using a measuring tape pipe.


Read above quote. I can measure if need be. Thankfully I'm not stuck running conduit all day. I've got real work to do, you have fun though.


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## eejack

jza said:


> Read above quote. I can measure if need be. Thankfully I'm not stuck running conduit all day. I've got real work to do, you have fun though.


So you actually know how to run pipe in a fast and professional manner and you choose to just chuck it up because you feel it is beneath you. 

You want people to know you are a hack so you advertise that fact.

Good for you.:thumbsup:


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## jza

eejack said:


> so you actually know how to run pipe in a fast and professional manner and you choose to just chuck it up because you feel it is beneath you.
> 
> You want people to know you are a hack so you advertise that fact.
> 
> Good for you.:thumbsup:


brotherrrrr!!!


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## icefalkon

jza said:


> As for eyeing it out. I'll eye out pipe all day and run circles around you and your stupid measuring tape.


In a word sir...Bullsh*t. That's a time and age old response from people who aren't very good at concentric bends/complicated bending techniques and who are better friends with their hacksaw/sawzall than their tape measure or stick ruler. 

You do realize that your ridiculous comment is identical to the guy who says that after 30yrs in the business, he's never been shocked. 

To which I again reply...Bullsh*t. 

WTF have you been doing for the last 30yrs that you have never been shocked in any way? Oh I know...eyeballing 1/2" EMT...gotcha...


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## Clarky

Could be the pipe, had a batch of 1"on one job that 3 or 4 us couldn't bend without kinking it.


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## piperunner

480sparky said:


> Wanna bet?


 It will look like you bent it 
with out a tape measure so yea you can but you must be bending 1/2" or 3/4 " try it with 4 inch on a real rack job .


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## brian john

Clarky said:


> Could be the pipe, had a batch of 1"on one job that 3 or 4 us couldn't bend without kinking it.


As the kids use to say Been There, Done That.

Also had some 3/4" that would crack down the weld when bent if the weld was on the inside of the bend.


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## Clarky

done that


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## brian john

When we did schools and all wiring was EMT above grade we would eye ball some of the conduit in the walls, but for everything else I use a stick and tape.


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## 480sparky

piperunner said:


> It will look like you bent it
> with out a tape measure so yea you can but you must be bending 1/2" or 3/4 " try it with 4 inch on a real rack job .



No... it will look like YOU bent it.

Of course, we WERE discussing ½ and ¾ EMT . Then some of you decided to add 4 inch to the thread.


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## icefalkon

We have an old timer who's retired and now teaches Lockout/Tagout who was a Conduit Foreman on...by low estimate...23 buildings of the NYC skyline. He's an old Irish guy. He comes to some of the bigger jobs by invitation sometimes and whenever he does, he would find a kid...either journeyman or apprentice...who's using a tape measure and give him the business. 

"Why are you using a carpenters tool young man? What in Gods name are you doing in an electrical closet with that lightning rod...are you CRAZY?? We are electricians and I don't give a damn if you're union or non union...we use THIS (pulling out an ancient wooden rule)."

This is always choreographed with the Foreman ahead of time...

Someone will ALWAYS say...but Mr. O...how can you lay out a floor with THAT? It's the 21st Century...come on now...we have to be more "productive" than times were back then...

Oh BOY...

Mr. O would just look at the group and go...YOU...lad...do me a favor and give me a shoelace (no lie here!)...and the kid would look around and eventually someone would give him a boot lace...

Then to another....Laddie...let me have your black tape....

George would tape the boot lace to the end of his wooden ruler and toss it to the ground! Using the lace as a sling he pulls out a piece of chalk...yeah...chalk! and would lay out a 25' line in SECONDS. HA!! 

Then he would take it apart, hand the boot lace and put his ruler away and go...

"If anyone wants to learn how to do THAT...stick around here at lunchtime...and we'll see if we can advance your education."

Know what...whenever that man would show up...he'd have an audience at lunchtime that would blow your mind. 

It's things like THAT...that will be missed when his generation are gone. I'm just glad I got to learn to use my stick ruler like that when I was coming up.

Ok...back to running conduit. LOL


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## Rochsolid

I will eye ball once in a while, usually in a crawl space. But where it is visible, always use my tape just to make it look nice.


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## icefalkon

I love those kindolf straps. You can get the conduit much closer than the standard old fashioned ones. Ha...important when your rack can only be "so big"...lol


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## Clarky

Someone should u tube a video of this guy [ the irish gentleman] I would love to see it, lost art I'm sure


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## icefalkon

Clarky said:


> Someone should u tube a video of this guy [ the irish gentleman] I would love to see it, lost art I'm sure


Know what...after Thanksgiving I start a new Code Class...right across the hall from George. I'll ask him if he'd be ok with me videoing him and putting it up on YouTube. Ha..one of his best lines is:

*This city was built with a wooden ruler...don't tell ME that you NEED that damn metal conductor with numbers on it!
* 
It is a lost art man....again, it doesn't matter if you're union or not...just to learn some of the tricks these guys did is amazing. 

We should have a thread dedicated to that on here...


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## ptcrtn

I was a conduit bender and threader at a power house job. My job was to man the bender table and threading machine. For conduits larger than 2" the men would give me their measurements and and my apprentice and I would cut and thread and bend to order.


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## jza

icefalkon said:


> We have an old timer who's retired and now teaches Lockout/Tagout who was a Conduit Foreman on...by low estimate...23 buildings of the NYC skyline. He's an old Irish guy. He comes to some of the bigger jobs by invitation sometimes and whenever he does, he would find a kid...either journeyman or apprentice...who's using a tape measure and give him the business.
> 
> "Why are you using a carpenters tool young man? What in Gods name are you doing in an electrical closet with that lightning rod...are you CRAZY?? We are electricians and I don't give a damn if you're union or non union...we use THIS (pulling out an ancient wooden rule)."
> 
> This is always choreographed with the Foreman ahead of time...
> 
> Someone will ALWAYS say...but Mr. O...how can you lay out a floor with THAT? It's the 21st Century...come on now...we have to be more "productive" than times were back then...
> 
> Oh BOY...
> 
> Mr. O would just look at the group and go...YOU...lad...do me a favor and give me a shoelace (no lie here!)...and the kid would look around and eventually someone would give him a boot lace...
> 
> Then to another....Laddie...let me have your black tape....
> 
> George would tape the boot lace to the end of his wooden ruler and toss it to the ground! Using the lace as a sling he pulls out a piece of chalk...yeah...chalk! and would lay out a 25' line in SECONDS. HA!!
> 
> Then he would take it apart, hand the boot lace and put his ruler away and go...
> 
> "If anyone wants to learn how to do THAT...stick around here at lunchtime...and we'll see if we can advance your education."
> 
> Know what...whenever that man would show up...he'd have an audience at lunchtime that would blow your mind.
> 
> It's things like THAT...that will be missed when his generation are gone. I'm just glad I got to learn to use my stick ruler like that when I was coming up.
> 
> Ok...back to running conduit. LOL


TLDR.

Someone hire this windbag and get his bored ass off the bench already.


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## icefalkon

jza said:


> TLDR.
> 
> Someone hire this windbag and get his bored ass off the bench already.


LOL this windbag isn't bored and happens to be employed. If you don't like the responses to the ridiculous posts you make, then try thinking about what you post before hitting submit.


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## icefalkon

jza said:


> TLDR.
> 
> Someone hire this windbag and get his bored ass off the bench already.


As an addition...if something is too long for you to read and yet you actually make a comment about it...then you have an attention span problem that there is medication for...

Just saying.


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## eejack

jza said:


> TLDR.
> 
> Someone hire this windbag and get his bored ass off the bench already.


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## Big John

I see this thread is now funny dog de-motivationals:









:laughing:
-John


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## eejack

icefalkon said:


> LOL this windbag isn't bored and happens to be employed. If you don't like the responses to the ridiculous posts you make, then try thinking about what you post before hitting submit.


Poor kid is just confused. You are the employed fair minded fellow who understands how to communicate effectively ( if not with any brevity ).

*I* am the unemployed windbag.

Hard to imagine anyone confusing us.


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## icefalkon

eejack said:


> Poor kid is just confused. You are the employed fair minded fellow who understands how to communicate effectively ( if not with any brevity ).
> 
> *I* am the unemployed windbag.
> 
> Hard to imagine anyone confusing us.


LOL you just made me spit out coffee. Thanks. LOL


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## icefalkon

Nope...I write a lot...and use words as descriptors...I'd apologize...but I'm not sorry for it. LOL


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## BBQ

eejack said:


> You are the employed fair minded fellow who understands how to communicate effectively (* if not with any brevity* ).



:laughing:






> *I* *am the* unemployed* windbag.*


Wow, some soul searching going on. :laughing:


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## icefalkon

BBQ said:


> :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, some soul searching going on. :laughing:


LOL damn Bob...that didn't take you long!


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## piperunner

I see not much has changed about bending conduit to each his own .
But if your a professional electrician and run lots of conduit that needs to look like a pro installed it exposed or concealed and you take pride in your work then use a tape measure if not just wing it and never learn how to do it the correct way . Stay small and complacent doing box stores .:laughing:


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## MIKEFLASH

Here's what it looks like when you measure 









Try eyeballing that sucka


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## icefalkon

Very nice!


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## jimmy21

Your couplings aren't lined up perfect. They are off. Are you sure that wasn't just eye balled?



Just kidding. It looks good


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## zwodubber

I'm on the measuring team :thumbsup:

These were taken before the support was installed before the offsets.


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## piperunner

Well i like the photos nice work looks like you used a measuring tape .
Id put some photos up of conduit but everytime in the past they would give me a hell on here so i stopped . Great work thats what it should look like.:thumbsup:


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## ponyboy

I'm also of the measuring variety


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## piperunner

Well we even use a level sometimes cant trust the eyes .


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## piperunner

*Conduit with measuring tape*

A few more with a tape measure and level we dont eyeball it.


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## brian john

Yeah, well you hacks stick to your rulers, I still say my eyeball works efficiently


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## piperunner

Well very impressive work Brian John yes i can see how the eye ball is a improvement over not using a tape measure . Do you have a sub contractor to fire seal for your company or do you guys just do it. A nice arrangement well executed looks good . You should send that photo in for the ABC yearly craftsmanship awards for 2013 .:thumbsup:


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## brian john

piperunner said:


> Well very impressive work Brian John yes i can see how the eye ball is a improvement over not using a tape measure . Do you have a sub contractor to fire seal for your company or do you guys just do it. A nice arrangement well executed looks good . You should send that photo in for the ABC yearly craftsmanship awards for 2013 .:thumbsup:


The sad fact is that was typical for this job, This was in the main electric room.

With all the BX and MC not sure why they even bothered with 1/2" Emt for the lights.


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## piperunner

Gee i like the 2 inch conduit elbow upper right corner just barely hanging out of the coupling the panel screws installed on the panel top on the right nice . Must be a fun place to due service ill bet the panel schedules are 
correct up to date & typed i guess one could just follow the path of the mc and walk it out . Wow


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## Chris Kennedy

Welcome back piperunner.


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## piperunner

Chris Kennedy said:


> Welcome back piperunner.


Hey Chris hows south florida doing


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## brian john

piperunner said:


> Gee i like the 2 inch conduit elbow upper right corner just barely hanging out of the coupling the panel screws installed on the panel top on the right nice . Must be a fun place to due service ill bet the panel schedules are
> correct up to date & typed i guess one could just follow the path of the mc and walk it out . Wow


 
I noticed that but that is not why I was there, so it is on someone else, they had other issues and hired us to try and ascertain what was going on.


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## Deadshort23

Im going to have to agree with the men who say use the measuring tape. If your running a stick of 3/4" emt in a drop ceiling and you want to eye ball real quick, that's one thing. When your running 20 pipe's on a rack exposed, use the tape.


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