# 1099 Apprentice



## Yearounder (May 5, 2021)

Hey guys ,

I’m in uncharted waters as of now. I’ve worked for a electrical contractor as a W2 employee for 3 years and complete my 600 school hours . My company went down the tubes and now I’m currently working under 2 separate Licensed electricians who said they will 1099 me . Will this be an issue in regards of obtaining my final year of hours to test for my journeymen . Thanks for the knowledge!


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

You are an employee. Period. If they tell you when to show up and how to do the work you are an employee.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Vladaar (Mar 9, 2021)

If you are doing the 1099 thing, you might want to check these out.


----------



## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Yearounder said:


> I’m currently working under 2 separate Licensed electricians who said they will 1099 me .


It sounds like you are being screwed. 

In NC, that would be illegal if you were not and EC yourself (or you were working though an employment service).


----------



## Vladaar (Mar 9, 2021)

I think he can find that out by checking with his state's version of the below website. This is for Virginia but whatever state you happen to live in.






Department of Labor and Industry | Virginia.gov







www.virginia.gov





Just call them and verify.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Yearounder said:


> Hey guy ,
> 
> I’m in uncharted waters as of now. I’ve worked for a electrical contractor as a W2 employee for 3 years and complete my 600 school hours . My company went down the tubes and now I’m currently working under 2 separate Licensed electricians who said they will 1099 me . Will this be an issue in regards of obtaining my final year of hours to test for my journeymen . Thanks for the knowledge!


In most states, in order to install electrical work, one must be a licensed electrician. UNLESS you are in the employ of a licensed electrician, and have the necessary credentials as an apprentice/ helper/ trainee, if any. Because the department of labor / industry which oversee issues regarding employee/employer matters, wages, hours, unemployment insurance, and the licensing and regulation of professional licensed workers (doctors, barbers, license-required fields) and the tax department are separate, some contractors have adopted a scheme wherein a contractor will have employees in the eyes of one department, ("Joe Shmoe worked for this licensed contractor for 1,600 hours installing electrical work in 2021.") but non-employees (1099 independent contractors) in the eyes of the other. ("We contracted with Joe Shmoe in the FY 2021 for general labor and compensated in the sum of $----.--.")

In most states this arrangement is illegal - because a non-licensed electrician cannot contract for work, lacking an actual license to allow it. As such, a licensed contractor cannot _contract_ with an individual to install electrical works under their own license - because only those _employed_ by a licensed individual may do that - given that an employee answers to, is supervised by, and is guided and directed by their employer - who takes the responsibility of the installation. It's no more legal to be an independant contractor working under a licensed contractor's license than it is for a doctor to hire a nurse as a contractor to perform his surgeries.

As a helper/ apprentice/ trainee, required to achieve a number of classroom hours and work hours under the employ of a licensed electrician in order to obtain your own license, any time spent contracted by an electrician is not applicable to your work hours needed, since you are under your own employment and not the employee of the contractor. If you were really an independent contractor nobody could be tasked with teaching you on the job, guiding you, directing you, or correcting your mistakes. You're not in a position of learning, just a position of producing an outcome. If someone is directing your day to day activities, then you're an employee, and the 1099 arrangement is nothing more than a scheme to defraud, and tax evasion.

If the work you do will be directed as to what will be done, how it will be done, what materials will be used, when it will start, when it will finish, what time you will start, finish the day, etc... And you're likely paid $XX.XX per hour, again that fails to meet the definition of independent contractor - none of this is a legal arrangement. The trick is - the contractor hiring you is simply filling out quarterly forms with the departments of taxation and declaring you as a business expense as if your compensation was a bill from the overhead door company, or the parking lot paving company... And in the eyes of the department of labor you're not an employee because some business entity contracts you do do whatever, unaware of the intimate arrangement and any of the details of your association between you and the contractor, or that you're engaged in a license-required field. 

It is only when the entire scheme is taken as a whole that it becomes clear the scam your employer is pulling. Your employer is doing this because as a non-employee, he has no worker's compensation costs or liability should you become injured or maimed. You need to carry your own and pay for your own. No unemployment insurance taxes to cover you. As a non-employee you can't even buy that insurance for yourself. No need to match your federal withholding taxes on medicare or social security as their own tax, you have to pay that entirely on your own, which is 2x what used to be deducted from your paycheck as an employee. 

From Wiki: It generally requires *employers* to *withhold* Social Security and Medicare taxes from their employees' earnings (wages, salaries, commissions, bonuses, etc.) and then *match* the amounts *withheld*. ... The *employer* must then *match* the $2,295 and remit the total of $4,590 to the *federal* government. 

Since you are not an employee, what little protections you get as an emloyee are inapplicable. 









Intentional misclassification of construction workers causing concern - The Indiana Lawyer


Workers on construction sites across Indiana can be found nailing plywall from atop scaffolds, scaling roofs or painting newly built homes. But what isn’t evident is whether those workers are part of a shady trend construction industry experts say is a serious concern — payroll tax fraud.




www.theindianalawyer.com


----------



## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

They're trying to 1099 you so they won't be responsible for workers comp, you'll basically be a sub contractor at that point. You wouldn't have rights to unemployment benefits and such if they end the relationship with you.

In CT an employer has to register an apprentice as an employee, so in CT I don't think this situation would fly with the Dept of Labor. You're state could be different but why not just find a legit apprenticeship job?


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

And this scheme is not new - employers have been scheming for ways to rip off their employees for decades. 






Drywall Company Owners Face Prison Time for Extensive Misclassification| Workers Compensation News | WorkCompCentral







www.workcompcentral.com





This electrical contractor did it to the tune of 3.4 million. 









Connecticut construction exec sentenced to prison for defrauding employees out of $3.4M


The owner of Ferguson Mechanical and Ferguson Electric deducted sham pension administrative fees from his 300 employees' paychecks and diverted the cash for his own use.




www.constructiondive.com


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

yankeejoe1141 said:


> They're trying to 1099 you so they won't be responsible for workers comp, you'll basically be a sub contractor at that point. You wouldn't have rights to unemployment benefits and such if they end the relationship with you.
> In CT an employer has to register an apprentice as an employee, so in CT I don't think this situation would fly with the Dept of Labor. You're state could be different but why not just find a legit apprenticeship job?


Furgeson Mechanical/ Electrical has entered the chat.


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

First fill out your about me section so we know the rules for your area.
Second do you have any records besides pay stubs for the hours worked?
Third NO these hours won't count and will only get you in trouble in most states.

Lets hope you did not waste 3 years if this was not a formal program. I have said this over and over again, YOU are the one responsible to track hours and what type of work you did. A paystub don't prove you did electrical work you could of been scrubbing toilets for them.

Good Luck
Cowboy


----------



## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

LGLS said:


> And this scheme is not new - employers have been scheming for ways to rip off their employees for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh wow, that second article was an interesting one. When I first got out of the service someone suggested I go there to start out because they’re so big they basically hire anyone. Glad I found a better job.


----------



## ElectronFlow (Dec 21, 2014)

Yearounder said:


> Hey guys ,
> 
> I’m in uncharted waters as of now. I’ve worked for a electrical contractor as a W2 employee for 3 years and complete my 600 school hours . My company went down the tubes and now I’m currently working under 2 separate Licensed electricians who said they will 1099 me . Will this be an issue in regards of obtaining my final year of hours to test for my journeymen . Thanks for the knowledge!


it means neither of them has you listed as an employee, so there may not be workers comp.
for you. you are also not an employee of an electrician, so you aren't an apprentice, legally.

what you are, is screwed. normally, in your situation, you are a "cash under the table" guy.
you have no identity. except that you have no rights as an employee, and have to pay taxes
like an employee.

other than that, everything is fine.


----------

