# 480 AC Contactor wont pull in



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard @gswilliams2003!

So the coil is 120v and you have 120v at the coil terminals and all it does is buzz?

Having 125v at the trans is great as long as it's getting to a 120v coil.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Sounds like a shorted coil.


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

When trouble shooting a coil such as yours the first thing I do is use an alternative power source to test. 
If your coil is 120 volt AC I assume then apply 120 volts from another source that you know is good. Many times the coil will energise and pull in which will tell you that the original control power source is suspect.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Walk your voltage out from xformer. 
Check across xformer.
leave one probe on grounded side of xformer.
move other probe to next spot down the line ( stop button or switch)
Move along line to next device.
end at coil all voltages should be real close to first reading.
If so repeat keeping probe at coil and moving the probe up the line from the grounded connection.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

gswilliams2003 said:


> I have a NEMA 1 Size Cutler Hammer contactor with a control power transformer in the bucket. When placed in "hand", the contactor just buzzes but does not pull in to send voltage to the motor. Replaced the contactor *and* the control transformer, same symptoms. I have 125 on the transformer output and 274-277 on the input power to the contactor on all three phases. Replaced overloads on contactor as well. Megged the motor and cables; OK. I am at the end of my skill level. Any ideas?


Do this contractor work fine in automatic mode ?

Did you ever check the switch to make sure it is good.

you may have to make a quick simple drawing to see where all the connection go and it will come to you on the answer.

what size control transfomer it is now ? ( it should be same size as before )


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## GeneC (Aug 28, 2017)

I use a cheater cord on my 277/480 systems with 120 V coil contactors to check coils, I just clip on to a good 120 volt supply and the coil. It sounds like contactor is hanging up. Does it work in auto mode? Did you check voltage at coil, disconnect it then check supply voltage there if good reconnect and try again. If it still does it you got a bad or weak coil. You should be able to depress plunger with a screw driver or something to see if is operating smoothly if it is try pushing it in while energized, probably gonna need a helper. Bottom line is you did everything except suspect a bad contactor. That sounds like your issue.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

GeneC said:


> I use a cheater cord on my 277/480 systems with 120 V coil contactors to check coils, I just clip on to a good 120 volt supply and the coil. It sounds like contactor is hanging up. Does it work in auto mode? Did you check voltage at coil, disconnect it then check supply voltage there if good reconnect and try again. If it still does it you got a bad or weak coil. You should be able to depress plunger with a screw driver or something to see if is operating smoothly if it is try pushing it in while energized, probably gonna need a helper. Bottom line is you did everything except suspect a bad contactor. That sounds like your issue.


1. He replaced the contactor and control trans an it does exactly what the old one did (buzz).

2. Never said he checked voltage at the coil.

3. I doubt there is the proper voltage at the coil.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

You are sure you have all 3 phases coming in, right? 

I only ask because last year I was called in by an EC I know to look at a 3-phase boiler. They had replaced control transformers and power supply boards and still couldn't get it to work. It took me about 10 seconds to show them they did not have one leg of the 3-phase circuit feeding the boiler.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

What haven't you changed? Switch? Overloads? Check there. Verify you have all 3 phases coming in.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Check for 120v directly on the coil terminals.

Put your meter on the coil terminals with all the wiring disconnected from the coil and see if you get any continuity. 

Measure the ohms while you're at it.

Also, on Nema starters I usually pull the coil and laminated cores out and hit them with some emery cloth and contact cleaner if they have any rust on them.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Check the starter overload relay. The neutral, for the contactor coil goes through a contact on this module.

If this MCC has the " pull apart" terminals check to see if they are mated correctly.

Are you using a digital meter to test voltage? You might use a Wiggy to be sure that you are not reading induced voltage.

As others have posted, if all else fails, make a test cord and connect the contactor coil to a known functional 120 VAC power source. Then trace back from the contactor.

Is this old or new equipment?

Does it work in "Auto"?

Is the problem only on this one starter?

If there is a short, in the control circuit, it could cause a voltage drop to where the coil would not pull in.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Hes gone.
Looks like he played component roulette.
That control circuit could go out through 100 contacts. 
Checking the transformer isnt a good place to start.
First thing to do is get a wiggy and get some real readings. :thumbsup:


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

My money is on a bad contact in the selector switch. He changed everything else, some of it needlessly I might add....


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

JRaef said:


> My money is on a bad contact in the selector switch. He changed everything else, some of it needlessly I might add....


That what I mention about the switch so I dont know if OP did get the reply on that yet but we will wait and see what he find out on his end.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

JRaef said:


> My money is on a bad contact in the selector switch. He changed everything else, some of it needlessly I might add....


All of it you mean?

Checking voltage at the coil is the first place to start.

I realize too many guys here don't actually read most posts.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> All of it you mean?
> 
> Checking voltage at the coil is the first place to start.
> 
> I realize too many guys here don't actually read most posts.


The key issue I dont know what type of voltmeter the OP using and if the OP used a cheap voltmeter it may not put any load on it and can cause the reading to be off the point.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> The key issue I dont know what type of voltmeter the OP using and if the OP used a cheap voltmeter it may not put any load on it and can cause the reading to be off the point.


I doubt he ever checked coil voltage at all.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> The key issue I dont know what type of voltmeter the OP using and if the OP used a cheap voltmeter it may not put any load on it and can cause the reading to be off the point.


I doubt he ever checked coil voltage at all.

Parts changers rarely make the proper tests.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I doubt he ever checked coil voltage at all.
> 
> Parts changers rarely make the proper tests.


That useally true ., alot of part changers dont bother with real troubleshooting properly at all.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> That useally true ., alot of part changers dont bother with real troubleshooting properly at all.


Exactly, they just guess and swap.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Do this contractor work fine in automatic mode ?


OP, if you stop in, please answer frenchelectrican's question.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> The key issue I dont know what type of voltmeter the OP using and if the OP used a cheap voltmeter it may not put any load on it and can cause the reading to be off the point.


Lately, every time I ask someone under 40 if they checked it with a Wiggy, I get a blank stare... Then I say "inductive voltage tester?", same thing. Then I pull mine out and show them, they are dumbfounded, they've never seen one.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

JRaef said:


> Lately, every time I ask someone under 40 if they checked it with a Wiggy, I get a blank stare... Then I say "inductive voltage tester?", same thing. Then I pull mine out and show them, they are dumbfounded, they've never seen one.


It is the same way with me when I ask someone about using the wiggy and they look at me as " WTF ?? " and I tell them " did anyone tell ya about using wiggy to get the ghost voltage out ? " all they do is shook their heads .,, aww jezz .,,, ( I just swear in my island langaunge .,, ) 

just try that with Megger unit. alot of young uns will never see it until I show them in first time they will say ahhh cool .,, Yuh ., right .,,


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Exactly!!

A megger and a wiggy, the 2 most _under valued under used _ tools by those _under 40_ or _under experienced_ in troubleshooting.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> You are sure you have all 3 phases coming in, right?
> 
> I only ask because last year I was called in by an EC I know to look at a 3-phase boiler. They had replaced control transformers and power supply boards and still couldn't get it to work. It took me about 10 seconds to show them they did not have one leg of the 3-phase circuit feeding the boiler.


If one leg was missing, he would not have heard anything. Open circuit.



MechanicalDVR said:


> All of it you mean?
> 
> Checking voltage at the coil is the first place to start.
> 
> I realize too many guys here don't actually read most posts.


I read your post and totally agree. Thats exactly where I would start. Attach meter leads to coil and turn switch to manual. If it hummed, and less than coil voltage is present, I would work my way backwards towards the source.

Putting one of the meter leads on the control transformer will not help with a bad OL contact. That can fool you and make more work.
Test the circuit at each point with both meter leads.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> If one leg was missing, he would not have heard anything. Open circuit.
> 
> *True but he said the contactor won't pull in, which to me is under voltage at the coil (maybe a short).
> *
> ...


:thumbup:

One of the other guys mentioned hop scotching like that through the control circuit and being old school that was how I was taught to proceed after checking for primary voltages and coil voltage.

So much easier when one starts at the beginning instead of in the middle.

I just don't think the younger guys have been taught how to troubleshoot by the old guard, many as you can see from reading here have been sent out on their own to install long before they are ready and then get sent out on trouble calls totally green.

This is a problem with ECs that just focus on cash flow rather than guys that will grow with the company and become their top guys down the road.


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> Walk your voltage out from xformer.
> Check across xformer.
> leave one probe on grounded side of xformer.
> move other probe to next spot down the line ( stop button or switch)
> ...


I agree but I usually start at the coil and back to the transformer. Maybe your way is better. We all probably have our own starting point but the end result is not to change out parts until they are condemned.
This gentleman is a greenhorn for sure. He said he was at the end of his skill level but that happened before he opened the control panel door.There are several ways to test components that are in the circuit and several components at that. Even experienced troubleshooters will get false positive tests because switches and coils and transformers perform differently when under load and a meter can read 120 but it takes more than volts to operate any component. A bad (weak)neutral from the overload was suggested for example. The meter will read 120 v but the coil will just buzz. I usually start with the component that is non functional first. Then work back through switches or relays etc. Not saying the guy is dumb but has not experience in troubleshooting. Common sense will tell you that if there are other coils in the system operating correctly it probably is not the transformer so why start there. All you guys know what I am talking about so I am saying this for the gentleman working on this system. I have tested positive continuity on switches that were bad so I will sometimes use a jumper to test a switch. It was brought up that different meters will give different results and it is true but this person will have to learn for himself with experience. Most of what I learned is from working with old guys like I am now and just spending hours scratching my head trying to figure out WTF is going on and why is the system I am working on not doing what it is supposed to. I and most guys here can figure this problem out in a few minuites in most cases but that is because we have been doing it for decades.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

goodtimesgladly said:


> I agree but I usually start at the coil and back to the transformer. Maybe your way is better. *We all probably have our own starting point *but the end result is not to change out parts until they are condemned.
> This gentleman is a greenhorn for sure. He said he was at the end of his skill level but that happened before he opened the control panel door.There are several ways to test components that are in the circuit and several components at that. Even experienced troubleshooters will get false positive tests because switches and coils and transformers perform differently when under load and a meter can read 120 but it takes more than volts to operate any component. A bad (weak)neutral from the overload was suggested for example. The meter will read 120 v but the coil will just buzz. I usually start with the component that is non functional first. Then work back through switches or relays etc. Not saying the guy is dumb but has not experience in troubleshooting. Common sense will tell you that if there are other coils in the system operating correctly it probably is not the transformer so why start there. All you guys know what I am talking about so I am saying this for the gentleman working on this system. I have tested positive continuity on switches that were bad so I will sometimes use a jumper to test a switch. It was brought up that different meters will give different results and it is true but this person will have to learn for himself with experience. Most of what I learned is from working with old guys like I am now and just spending hours scratching my head trying to figure out WTF is going on and why is the system I am working on not doing what it is supposed to. I and most guys here can figure this problem out in a few minuites in most cases but that is because we have been doing it for decades.



I don't care if it's a $10million process machine or a domestic refrigerator, if it isn't working check for incoming power and then go deeper into the machine from there.


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I don't care if it's a $10million process machine or a domestic refrigerator, if it isn't working check for incoming power and then go deeper into the machine from there.


I agree but I guess I just took that for granted.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

goodtimesgladly said:


> I agree but I guess I just took that for granted.


Many of us do, but the youngins skip this step often it seems.


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## cmdr_suds (Jul 29, 2016)

Im wondering if the coil is even a 120VAC coil. If this is straight from the factory, maybe they put a 480v coil starter in by mistake. If he then replaced the the starter with the exact same starter he would still have a 480v coil.


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

Not just the youngsters.Years ago when I was a greenhorn myself I went to a convention as I was learning the Refrigeration Trade which is what lead me to Electrical Trade. A manufacturer Rep from a Machine company told a story about a machine that was brand new and would not run. The factory sent an engineer (college educated) and I mean put him on a plane and flew him in to figure out why this $100,000 machine would not run.
He arrived on location and turned on the safety switch (disconnect) and away it went.
True Story Now that is my definition of an expensive service call.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

cmdr_suds said:


> Im wondering if the coil is even a 120VAC coil. If this is straight from the factory, maybe they put a 480v coil starter in by mistake. If he then replaced the the starter with the exact same starter he would still have a 480v coil.


Since he changed everything, the question (from a couple of people) about the selector switch seems to be where the problem might be. At least that is where my head is now on this.


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## GeneC (Aug 28, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> 1. He replaced the contactor and control trans an it does exactly what the old one did (buzz).
> 
> 2. Never said he checked voltage at the coil.
> 
> 3. I doubt there is the proper voltage at the coil.


OOPS misread the OP. Also could just be a vibration somewhere. Had one of those recently.


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## GeneC (Aug 28, 2017)

frenchelectrican said:


> It is the same way with me when I ask someone about using the wiggy and they look at me as " WTF ?? " and I tell them " did anyone tell ya about using wiggy to get the ghost voltage out ? " all they do is shook their heads .,, aww jezz .,,, ( I just swear in my island langaunge .,, )
> 
> just try that with Megger unit. alot of young uns will never see it until I show them in first time they will say ahhh cool .,, Yuh ., right .,,


Youngins will never get it, I love my wiggy and that's it's name so hand me my wiggy and I get what is that. So I use a lot of my language (italian) but the suckers are getting to know it. Keeps everyone on their toes.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Noobs often don't comprehend that the circuit passes through the Over Loads. ( heaters ) 

In this instance, I'm not sure whether he swapped them out right along with the contactor.

BTW, they have to be of the correct value.

Buzzing can also mean that -- somewhere -- you're dealing with pitted or corroded contacts at this or that relay. This situation can drive you nuts as enough current is passed to fake out meters. It only fails under load.

Which gets back to the unsaid: what is the over all condition of the gear. Is this in a highly corrosive environment ? 

Filthy ?

Dusty ?

Wash-down wet ?

Abused ?


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

GeneC said:


> OOPS misread the OP. Also could just be a vibration somewhere. Had one of those recently.


One that vexed me was a control panel on a machine that vibrated a lot. The contactors chattered like crazy and kept beating themselves to pieces. I checked and eventually replaced EVERYTHING and it kept happening. I eventually got to that point of putting jumpers around each set of control contacts to isolate which one was giving me fits. Turned out that the ABB E-Stop switch was really weak and crappy so the vibration was opening the NC contacts momentarily. Even the new switch did the exact same thing. Changed out the switch to a different brand and the problem went away.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

goodtimesgladly said:


> Not just the youngsters.Years ago when I was a greenhorn myself I went to a convention as I was learning the Refrigeration Trade which is what lead me to Electrical Trade. A manufacturer Rep from a Machine company told a story about a machine that was brand new and would not run. The factory sent an engineer (college educated) and I mean put him on a plane and flew him in to figure out why this $100,000 machine would not run.
> He arrived on location and turned on the safety switch (disconnect) and away it went.
> True Story Now that is my definition of an expensive service call.


Last company I worked for was factory service for AAON units.

Many of the calls on brand new equipment were just such issues. 

Service Call: Condenser fans never come on. 
(Individual cond. fan breakers off)

No heat 
(Gas to building off)

Nothing works 
(No controls connected to unit)

These were very common service issues.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Last company I worked for was factory service for AAON units.
> 
> Many of the calls on brand new equipment were just such issues.
> 
> ...


And then the end user doesn't understand why you would send him a bill for coming out and flipping a switch.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

GeneC said:


> OOPS misread the OP. Also could just be a vibration somewhere. Had one of those recently.


No problem.

When I read these posts as I'm talking to someone I often miss a few words.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> And then the end user doesn't understand why you would send him a bill for coming out and flipping a switch.


Depending on the amount of the total sale and how many nuisance calls there were or weren't billed.

Many times if the weather had an abrupt change GCs would call to have a unit(s) turned on prior to being commissioned and they'd be billed extra for that.

But yeah man, I've had many different heat calls that turned out to be the 'Emergency' switch or a winter/summer switch or breakers in case of a/c units that were just off.

Many times it's just a case of a new tenant in an old building.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Did it ever work? 

If it's a new installation, it'll troubleshoot differently than one that used to work and has now failed.


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

hardworkingstiff said:


> And then the end user doesn't understand why you would send him a bill for coming out and flipping a switch.


I have al lot of equipment connected to customers power supply. (Remote locations) They will call me and say " My machine is not working" I say " Is the electrical on"? Then they say " I don't know". Then I say "Can you check" and they say " How do I do that" Then I say "Can you hear any sound" In other words I ask "Is the machine running and not performing or just not running"?
Next question is if the machine is not running "is the breaker on or is the GFI tripped" Then they say "what is that"? Finally I just send out a service man or go myself and show them how to check a GFI or breaker or more importantly in general how life works.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

cmdr_suds said:


> Im wondering if the coil is even a 120VAC coil. If this is straight from the factory, maybe they put a 480v coil starter in by mistake. If he then replaced the the starter with the exact same starter he would still have a 480v coil.


One of the most common mistakes that can be made when ordering a contactor. Wrong coil voltage. Good CSR's ask what voltage you want.

I always built my own part number using the instructions in the catalog or manual.
The complete part number, with _*coil voltage code*_. This ensures in most cases that you indeed get what you ordered.
It is very easy to place an order and get a 24 volt ac coil. This happened to me a lot before I started paying much more attention.

Moral of the story.
You know way more than the guy that's taking your order. I hope.
Seems especially concerning with IEC contactors. I think they assemble them at the factory with 24 volts ac coils*. The reason I say this is each time I did not specify, I ended up with 24 volt ac coil.



goodtimesgladly said:


> Not just the youngsters.Years ago when I was a greenhorn myself I went to a convention as I was learning the Refrigeration Trade which is what lead me to Electrical Trade. A manufacturer Rep from a Machine company told a story about a machine that was brand new and would not run. The factory sent an engineer (college educated) and I mean put him on a plane and flew him in to figure out why this $100,000 machine would not run.
> He arrived on location and turned on the safety switch (disconnect) and away it went.
> True Story Now that is my definition of an expensive service call.


Back when I was a young apprentice at the railroad, electricians had the refrigeration as well as the electrical.



hardworkingstiff said:


> Since he changed everything, the question (from a couple of people) about the selector switch seems to be where the problem might be. At least that is where my head is now on this.


I guess it possible. But he says he hears the coil/contactor buzzing. I would think if the switch was bad he would hear nothing when he turns it on.



JRaef said:


> One that vexed me was a control panel on a machine that vibrated a lot. The contactors chattered like crazy and kept beating themselves to pieces. I checked and eventually replaced EVERYTHING and it kept happening. I eventually got to that point of putting jumpers around each set of control contacts to isolate which one was giving me fits. Turned out that the ABB E-Stop switch was really weak and crappy so the vibration was opening the NC contacts momentarily. Even the new switch did the exact same thing. Changed out the switch to a different brand and the problem went away.


That reminded me of a problem I had some years ago. I might have discussed this before.
I had a brake motor on a punch press. This motor was located on the ram itself. It rode up and smashed down along with the press ram.
It had an old U frame cast iron motor that I replaced with a stock motor and had to use frame rails to allow it to fit. 
That stock brake motor was in pieces within weeks. Days actually.
Bad part was. We tossed the old U frame motor and the scrap metal shop had already taken away the bin. 



goodtimesgladly said:


> I have al lot of equipment connected to customers power supply. (Remote locations) They will call me and say " My machine is not working" I say " Is the electrical on"? Then they say " I don't know". Then I say "Can you check" and they say " How do I do that" Then I say "Can you hear any sound" In other words I ask "Is the machine running and not performing or just not running"?
> Next question is if the machine is not running "is the breaker on or is the GFI tripped" Then they say "what is that"? Finally I just send out a service man or go myself and show them how to check a GFI or breaker or more importantly in general how life works.


I lost my company money helping people over the phone. Its amazing how many problems can be corrected over the phone.
It did not take long for me to figure out the service call was much more lucrative than telling them over the phone how to fix it.

I was a green sales rep and wanted the customers to like and remember me. So, I had no issue helping as much as I could before sending someone.
Then that same customer gives all the gravy work to a competing shop.
There is no loyalty. Get what you can when you can.


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

*A little hard*

I think in my case anyway some of us were a little hard on the gentleman trying to troubleshoot this issue of the contactor. I am relatively new here so I do not know my place exactly but I was wrong in my mind calling him a greenhorn. I sent him a message offering to help anyway I can to help get this machine running. Maybe he got it going and maybe not but I can't help wondering what the problem was. Either way I feel bad because this is an Electrical forum and if I can help an apprentice for example that his boss sent him on a job over his head instead of going himself I think I should help instead of criticize. No one here wants to help a guy that is not in the electrical field and is just trying to avoid calling a qualified Electrician. General Contractors and maintenance people are sometimes easy to spot by the stupid things they do and then ask questions why they did such a dumb thing. It would be nice if guys would give more background information such as is this a new machine or some piece of sh*t sitting around for a decade. Any advice from you more experienced guys on forum issues (not industrial or hvac questions) here will be helpful to me.
Main issue is how to help these guys or not?


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## RMC4ME (Oct 25, 2017)

JRaef said:


> Lately, every time I ask someone under 40 if they checked it with a Wiggy, I get a blank stare... Then I say "inductive voltage tester?", same thing. Then I pull mine out and show them, they are dumbfounded, they've never seen one.


I pulled a Wiggy out once in industrial facility and the maintenance electrician took it quicker than I could blink, and gave me a fluke. He said its cheaper for him to buy me a fluke than for me to connect a shut down switch checking voltage on control circuits. I love mine for finding GFCI's though.


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## GeneC (Aug 28, 2017)

On that context had a 2:00 A.M. service call years back when did on call work, complaint was auto strapping machine was down. Final leg in manufacture process that would shut plant down. show up notice cabinet door open so reach in depress safety switch start machine and ask what is the problem. Went home 400.00 richer and back to bed. Point is trouble shooting is an art and does not have to be difficult if you have the right tools, knowledge and (patience), Most times it's right in front of your face. I had all these problems and more over the years and now that's all I do is trouble shoot and repair. It's my niche and it pays well. A lot of posts and opinions and I agree with all, so many different approaches to a situation I like that cause I am still not to old to learn a few tricks. I really haven't seen much dialogue with OP on this matter, usually a post of results on matter or findings would be helpful. Maybe I missed something. If so Sorry


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

*Cranky old man*

I do not do service calls anymore unless it is my equipment and I have to because it is mine. It would be different if I could find a good person to work for me but I do not have the patience to baby sit new guys. These dumb asses (customers) only call on Friday night when you are out to eat with the wife or something. When you talk to them you discover that the malfunctioning machine has been off for at least a day or longer. They claim they just discovered it and of course it is an emergency but you know they are lying or more likely they are just too stupid to figure out when a machine is not running. I am too old and tired to play the service games so I you can not bring your machine into my shop then find someone else to work on it because I am not going to let you ruin my Saturday night with a stupid phone call from a stupid person.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

goodtimesgladly said:


> I agree but I usually start at the coil and back to the transformer. Maybe your way is better. We all probably have our own starting point but the end result is not to change out parts until they are condemned.
> .


I told him that to not get him confused. Me I check at the coil, then go back half way and check again, repeat forward or back as needed. 
I was taught the divide and conquer way.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

goodtimesgladly said:


> I have al lot of equipment connected to customers power supply. (Remote locations) They will call me and say " My machine is not working" I say " Is the electrical on"? Then they say " I don't know". Then I say "Can you check" and they say " How do I do that" Then I say "Can you hear any sound" In other words I ask "Is the machine running and not performing or just not running"?
> Next question is if the machine is not running "is the breaker on or is the GFI tripped" Then they say "what is that"? Finally I just send out a service man or go myself and show them how to check a GFI or breaker or more importantly in general how life works.


Which is all fine and dandy as long as you charge fully for 1 on 1 instruction.


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> I told him that to not get him confused. Me I check at the coil, then go back half way and check again, repeat forward or back as needed.
> I was taught the divide and conquer way.


I agree with you as we all have our methods and how we were taught. 
My brain works a little differently than most here which is why I catch allot of Sh*t
Me, I had to teach myself so I do it the way I was taught lol


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## goodtimesgladly (Sep 12, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Which is all fine and dandy as long as you charge fully for 1 on 1 instruction.


Ok but how much do you charge for choking the Sh*t out of somebody?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

goodtimesgladly said:


> Ok but how much do you charge for choking the Sh*t out of somebody?


I used to get like $1000 but if you have a real long list of people I can call a friend and see if he'll give a group discount!


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