# 5 three way switches



## Dembones (Mar 24, 2007)

Ok, so before I hear any BS about how this would never happen, the following is a TEST of logic. This should be FUN. Please back up any attempts with a drawing, and NO CHEATING!!! 
A JW in Portland found this situation: Dwelling unit has five 3-way switches in a 5-gang box. If all the switches are up, the light is on. All are down, the light is on. No other toggle combination turns the light on. Is this possible? How?
. . . . .
. . . . .
. . . . .


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

:blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

*Way *too easy.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Dembones said:


> Ok, so before I hear any BS about how this would never happen,


This would never happen.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

steelersman said:


> This would never happen.


 No not here.:laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

why would someone want to do this? Just to confuse others maybe?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Now try this one:

You are working alone, and have a raceway from one end of a building to the other. The ends are too far apart to see from each other.

There are several conductors in the raceway, all black. Any number will work for this mind-bender.

Using nothing more than an ohmmeter and a pack of labels, make ONE round trip (from one end of the raceway to the other and back) and label each conductor correctly.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Now try this one:
> 
> You are working alone, and have a raceway from one end of a building to the other. The ends are too far apart to see from each other.
> 
> ...


can't I use my strippers to strip the ends of the wires?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

steelersman said:


> can't I use my strippers to strip the ends of the wires?


No, but I'll let you use your teeth! :laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Now try this one:
> 
> You are working alone, and have a raceway from one end of a building to the other. The ends are too far apart to see from each other.
> 
> ...


are you serious? This is possible to do? This one is more of a mind bender to me than the 5 3-ways


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## Dembones (Mar 24, 2007)

480sparky said:


> *Way *too easy.


WTF man, that is LOW. NO CHEATING!!!!!! I suppose you're going to give credit to Mike on EKR now right?
http://www.electricalknowledge.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6999&whichpage=3


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## Dembones (Mar 24, 2007)

And as if I needed a reminder why I stopped using this forum. You two enjoy your little circle jerk, i'm outta here.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

steelersman said:


> are you serious? This is possible to do? This one is more of a mind bender to me than the 5 3-ways


Absolutely, it can be done. There is *no limit* to the number of conductors. If you want to play using a million, or a billion, or 100 trillion, it *can *be done. But of course, a smaller number is easier to explain step-by-step.



Dembones said:


> And as if I needed a reminder why I stopped using this forum. You two enjoy your little circle jerk, i'm outta here.


 
You started it, so that makes you the Pivot.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Now try this one:
> 
> You are working alone, and have a raceway from one end of a building to the other. The ends are too far apart to see from each other.
> 
> ...


only way I can think of is to take 48 pieces of wire and string them out to the other end and wirenut them to the individual wires on one end and then ring them out, but I guess that's using more than just an ohmmeter and labels


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dembones said:


> WTF man, that is LOW. NO CHEATING!!!!!! I suppose you're going to give credit to Mike on EKR now right?
> http://www.electricalknowledge.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6999&whichpage=3


 :laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Dembones said:


> And as if I needed a reminder why I stopped using this forum. You two enjoy your little circle jerk, i'm outta here.


how did he cheat? he provided a drawing like you said to do.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> :laughing:


No one said Google was out of bounds!



steelersman said:


> how did he cheat? he provided a drawing like you said to do.


 
Actually, I had it already drawn out, *then* I checked on Google.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> No one said Google was out of bounds!


 Thats correct,:thumbup: Google is our friend.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No one said Google was out of bounds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok, I give up on the 48 conductors riddle. Would you tell me how to do it. Just use 12 conductors if that shortens the explanation.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

steelersman said:


> ok, I give up on the 48 conductors riddle. Would you tell me how to do it. Just use 12 conductors if that shortens the explanation.


I won't post an answer in order to give someone a chance to come up with it.



Or Google it.:whistling2:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dembones said:


> And as if I needed a reminder why I stopped using this forum. You two enjoy your little circle jerk, i'm outta here.


 Maybe you should change you name from Dembones to pivot man.:laughing:







480sparky said:


> You started it, so that makes you the Pivot.


:laughing::laughing:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Dembones said:


> And as if I needed a reminder why I stopped using this forum. You two enjoy your little circle jerk, i'm outta here.



Speaking of jerks...AMF.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Maybe you should change you name from Dembones to pivot man.:laughing:


 
I think '3-year-old' would be more appropriate:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I think '3-year-old' would be more appropriate:



LMAO...like tossing a turd in the punch bowl as you get kicked out the door. :laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I think '3-year-old' would be more appropriate:


 That is too funny. What a baby.:laughing:


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

how many ohmmeters can i use?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparkyboys said:


> how many ohmmeters can i use?


One....


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

What the hell got stuck in that guy's craw? Was there an exchange of private messages that we're not privy to?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I guess he thought he had a fun game and Ken ruined it on him. When he saw that Ken had used the drawings from another forum he got mad. C'est la vie.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I guess he thought he had a fun game and Ken ruined it on him. When he saw that Ken had used the drawings from another forum he got mad. C'est la vie.


Dámn that Ken. He's such a tool!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Dámn that Ken. He's such a tool!


Interesting that the OP used the question from that site--- that was okay but giving the answer from there wasn't.

You







you.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Interesting that the OP used the question from that site--- that was okay but giving the answer from there wasn't.


 Thats just double standards.:wallbash: :bangin:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> What the hell got stuck in that guy's craw?


 I'm not sure he was the pivot man at one point in this thread.:laughing:


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

would the ohm reading be different for each wire?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparkyboys said:


> would the ohm reading be different for each wire?


Only if they were all different sizes. I always figured they'd be the same size. Otherwise, you could sort them out by size alone.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I give up. I'm sure the answer is right in front of my nose.


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

my brain is hurting


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Cut all conductors the same length at the 1st end. Go to the other end then do the same, then pull one conductor slightly longer than the next, until all are a different length from shortest to longest label them 1,2,3 etc, then back to the other end and label the longest to shortest 1,2 3 etc...


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Cut all conductors the same length at the 1st end. Go to the other end then do the same, then pull one conductor slightly longer than the next, until all are a different length from shortest to longest label them 1,2,3 etc, then back to the other end and label the longest to shortest 1,2 3 etc...


excellent brain teaser
(cannot imagine this being practical for >10 or anything but "easy pull")


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

ha ha ha kens a tool:thumbup:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

wildleg said:


> excellent brain teaser
> (cannot imagine this being practical for >10 or anything but "easy pull")


 
Heres another:

I give to TEN hi hats to install on the ceiling (10)

I want 5 rows of 4.

Make it so...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Heres another:
> 
> I give to TEN hi hats to install on the ceiling (10)
> 
> ...


 
Two solutions:


















 
​


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I've also seen a 5-pointed star, but I can't find the graphic.​


You cheated again. Didn't you learn your lesson.:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You cheated again. Didn't you learn your lesson.:laughing:


I didn't cheat. I already knew the answer. Bin dere, dun dat.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I didn't cheat. I already knew the answer. Bin dere, dun dat.


don't be such a tool!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

steelersman said:


> don't be such a tool!


Sorry. I can't help myself. I'm such a tool.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I didn't cheat. I already knew the answer. Bin dere, dun dat.


 I guess you knowing the answer to both of those questions is what made you a tool.:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I guess you knowing the answer to both of those questions is what made you a tool.:laughing:


Not really. Because I _didn't _know the answer to one of them and looked it up.........*that* made me a tool.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

God, I'm so glad I'm not a tool. I can't even imagine what life would be like if I were one. :laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Not really. Because I _didn't _know the answer to one of them and looked it up.........*that* made me a tool.


 Ok, I gotcha.:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

steelersman said:


> God, I'm so glad I'm not a tool. I can't even imagine what life would be like if I were one. :laughing:


I can't help get the feeling that being called a tool is a _bad_ thing? :001_huh:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I can't help get the feeling that being called a tool is a _bad_ thing? :001_huh:


it's suppossed to be a put down. If your a tool, I guess it means you always get used by people. I'm not sure if that is how it originated, but I do know that it is a putdown. It's not cool to be a tool!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

steelersman said:


> it's suppossed to be a put down. If your a tool, I guess it means you always get used by people. I'm not sure if that is how it originated, but I do know that it is a putdown. It's not cool to be a tool!


Geez. do I ever feel bummed out now.

I was livin' large there for a while.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

steelersman said:


> it's suppossed to be a put down. If your a tool, I guess it means you always get used by people. I'm not sure if that is how it originated, but I do know that it is a putdown. It's not cool to be a tool!


A tool is used to fix or make something and that has to be a good thing :hammer:


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Cut all conductors the same length at the 1st end. Go to the other end then do the same, then pull one conductor slightly longer than the next, until all are a different length from shortest to longest label them 1,2,3 etc, then back to the other end and label the longest to shortest 1,2 3 etc...


so is this really the answer...?480....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparkyboys said:


> so is this really the answer...?480....


Step one: (assuming even number of wires, odd numbers is a slight variation, see below)

Splice pairs of wires together at one end. Now go to the other end. Find a pair that is shorted together. Label one of them a #1, and ground it. Label the other as #2.

OK, find another pair. Label one of them as #3, and tie it to #2. Label the other as #4.

Find another pair, and tie one of them to #4, labeling it #5, the other #6.

Repeat through the entire sets of pairs.

Once you get the one end labeled, go back to the other end. One pair of wires will be shorted to ground. Take them apart and find the one that is grounded. That's #1, the other is #2. #2 will be shorted to another pair of wires. Find that pair and take them apart. The one shorted to #2 will be #3, the other #4.

Continue until you label the other end.




If you start out with an _odd_ number:

Ground one wire. Label it #1. Start tying the remaining pairs of wires together.

Go to other end and locate grounded wire. It’s #1. Find a pair of wires, and label one #2, tie it to #1. Label other #3.

Find another pair, label one #4 and tie to #3. Label other #5. Continue until you label them all.

Now go back to the other end. Find the one pair that’s shorted to #1, and take them apart. The one that is still shorted to #1 is #2, and the other is #3. Find the pair shorted to #3, and take them apart. The one still shorted to #3 is #4, the other is #5. Continue until you label them all.


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

480, you are shizzle dizzle, my nizzle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparkyboys said:


> 480, you are shizzle dizzle, my nizzle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Is that better than being a tool?:001_huh:


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Is that better than being a tool?:001_huh:


ummm, sheah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> A tool is used to fix or make something and that has to be a good thing :hammer:


You repair things with tools, you fix things with a hammer.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

480sparky said:


> You started it, so that makes you the Pivot.


Come on:laughing:

and GOOD BYE


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

In some cases the difference between a mechanic and an installer is knowing where to look for the answers. You cannot know it all but if you know where to find the answer, may put you ahead of the competition.


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## wvwirenut (Apr 24, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Step one: (assuming even number of wires, odd numbers is a slight variation, see below)
> 
> Splice pairs of wires together at one end. Now go to the other end. Find a pair that is shorted together. Label one of them a #1, and ground it. Label the other as #2.
> 
> ...


 
That was a brain buster! The situation could come up. It's always good to know alternate solutions to a problem.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wvwirenut said:


> That was a brain buster! The situation could come up. It's always good to know alternate solutions to a problem.


I actually has for me. I had a co-worker pull in 38 12's in a pipe from one end of the building to another (control wires, so let's not get into derating, please!) and cut the labels off as soon as the head came through.

I marked them all in about 3 minutes.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I actually has for me. I had a co-worker pull in 38 12's in a pipe from one end of the building to another (control wires, so let's not get into derating, please!) and cut the labels off as soon as the head came through.


 Been there before.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Been there before.


 

Save cut off head. After reading this thread mine exploded :blink:


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## wvwirenut (Apr 24, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I actually has for me. I had a co-worker pull in 38 12's in a pipe from one end of the building to another (control wires, so let's not get into derating, please!) and cut the labels off as soon as the head came through.
> 
> I marked them all in about 3 minutes.


I bet you had all your coworkers in amazement.:thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wvwirenut said:


> I bet you had all your coworkers in amazement.:thumbup:


They could have cared less. All they knew is someone saved their arses.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Dembones said:


> And as if I needed a reminder why I stopped using this forum. You two enjoy your little circle jerk, i'm outta here.





Dembones said:


> WTF man, that is LOW. NO CHEATING!!!!!! I suppose you're going to give credit to Mike on EKR now right?
> http://www.electricalknowledge.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6999&whichpage=3


 
that was so funny:laughing::laughing:


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

I asspire to toolhood. I am honored to be sitting in this circle, no matter what we're doing.Being ex-Navy I am able to change hands and gain a stroke.:thumbup:


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## BEAMEUP (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey all, I heard that all the tools hang out in this thread, How do I become a tool. I own a bunch of tools & use them every day. But I am not a tool yet. Is there a secret hand shake too?:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BEAMEUP said:


> Hey all, I heard that all the tools hang out in this thread, How do I become a tool. I own a bunch of tools & use them every day. But I am not a tool yet. Is there a secret hand shake too?:laughing:


I could tell you about the secret handshake, but then I'd have to kill you.










Our initiation ceremony is a lot like getting knighted by British royalty. 'Cept there's no sword tapped light on the shoulders. We crack you on the noggin with a baseball bat.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

It's an electric train. There is no smoke.


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