# NEC and Boiler Wiring



## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

What are the wiring requirements with regard to the NEC and fossil fueled heating boilers, specifically the wire type to feed the boiler?

Thanks

Ron


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I know of no special requirements. Are you looking for something specific?


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

NM, AC, FMC, MC or EMT what is acceptable for the feed to the boiler.

I'm not really sure.

Read this for kicks: http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=OILHEAT;action=display;num=1259456854


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

One thing is for sure. If the plumber or oil burner serviceman wired the boiler you can pretty much rest assured it's a hack job. I have never once seen a plumber or oil burner guy do a good job of wiring a boiler.


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Peter D said:


> One thing is for sure. If the plumber or oil burner serviceman wired the boiler you can pretty much rest assured it's a hack job. I have never once seen a plumber or oil burner guy do a good job of wiring a boiler.


Did ya check the link, I'm the oil burner guy!


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> Did ya check the link, I'm the oil burner guy!


No, I didn't. :laughing:


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Please let me know if I'm a hack. Thank You.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Typically boilers and furnaces are wired with a combination of MC, flex and EMT. If the furnace is in the attic I'll just wire it with NM cable directly and be done with it.


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

How's the wiring look here: http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/attachments/dscf1586.jpg

and here
http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/attachments/dscf1589.jpg


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Is there a requirement that the run to the boiler be EMT?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

R Mannino said:


> Is there a requirement that the run to the boiler be EMT?


 just curious but shouldn't the electrician be doing all this? You know,someone familiar with the certain codes of such an install?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> Is there a requirement that the run to the boiler be EMT?


Nope.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> How's the wiring look here: http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/attachments/dscf1586.jpg
> 
> and here
> http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/attachments/dscf1589.jpg


The lack of strapping of the MC or flex is pretty hack. Also, I don't see any support on that EMT either. Otherwise it looks pretty good. I'm not a fan of strapping raceways to heating pipes either.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

What part of NY are you from?


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Long Island


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> Long Island


Some places in Nassau have wacky codes.. Suffolk is any wiring in Chapter 3.. NM, BX, MC, EMT


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> just curious but shouldn't the electrician be doing all this? You know,someone familiar with the certain codes of such an install?


I'm not aware of a code requiring EMT to the boiler, that's why I'm asking.
I'm also interested in improving my installations.


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Some places in Nassau have wacky codes.. Suffolk is any wiring in Chapter 3.. NM, BX, MC, EMT


That install is in Suffolk, so NM is still within code, correct?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> That install is in Suffolk, so NM is still within code, correct?


 
Yes.. Suffolk is NM


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I agree. Unless you have some local amendments, there is NO requirement for EMT. 

I was getting the main site before when I clicked on that link. Now I see the thread. 
Some of those guys are a riot. I love the guy who when questioned and was asked for a code quote used the old _"I was always taught..."_ defense.


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Yes.. Suffolk is NM



So it is completely code compliant to use NM for every aspect of boiler wiring within Suffolk County? That's the way NEC 70 read for me.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Most oil burner companies I have seen use #14 BX to wire the boilers.

Seems to do a nicer job and you don't have to get a ground wire into those TACO circulators


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> So it is completely code compliant to use NM for every aspect of boiler wiring within Suffolk County? That's the way NEC 70 read for me.


Yes it is


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks man.

Ron


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Good luck :thumbsup:


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## AWKrueger (Aug 4, 2008)

Is there requirment in NY for emergency shut offs at each entryway to the boiler room or a switch lock out on the service switch for the boiler?

If I walked into a boiler room and saw NM used to wire a boiler, the first thing I would think would be "HACK". 
Every time I wire a boiler it's in emt w/ some mc, mostly whips to the circ. pumps.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

MC or romex or emt/romex for me. I Might use the emt for a stub up but unless is a commercial job prone to damage than why go all the way with emt...?


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

IMO, although the actual conductors themselves would likely be fine, MC cable should only be used if secured within 12-inches of each box, cabinet or fitting. 
330.30[D] allows for unsupported lengths of up to 6-feet max only when MC cable is fished in concealed spaces or when used in an accessible ceiling.
I believe this stands even if for some reason the manufacturer used MC cable for their factory connections, since that is covered under the equipment listing. 

Among other things, NM cables have similar issues, since 334.30 requires them to be secured within 12-inches of a box, cabinet, conduit body or other NM cable termination. 
334.30* allows NM to be used in unsupported in lengths of up to 4-1/2 feet max only where the cable is fished in concealed spaces or used within an accessible ceiling.**

On the other hand, FMC, LFMC and even AC cables are allowed to be unsupported in certain lengths where flexibility is required.*


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

AWKrueger said:


> Is there requirment in NY for emergency shut offs at each entryway to the boiler room or a switch lock out on the service switch for the boiler?
> 
> If I walked into a boiler room and saw NM used to wire a boiler, the first thing I would think would be "HACK".
> Every time I wire a boiler it's in emt w/ some mc, mostly whips to the circ. pumps.


I agree even if NM is allowed it is prudent to use MC, FMC or EMT.

This particular job has a switch at the top of the stairs and also on the wall panel.


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## partimer31 (Jun 9, 2009)

*What brand of solder did you used?*

R Mannino

If you don't mind, I have a question, first I look at the pictures of 
your copper tubbing piping job. So what brand of solder did you
used?

I like, nice clean looking job. Don't see that type of work in my area.


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Those are ProPress fitting from Viega. They are more expensive than regular fittings, but it is faster and easier than soldering.

We like it too, thanks.

Ron


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

Did a job in VT (NICE house) and the owner paid the painter to put a laquer on the pipes to keep the copper nice and shiny forever.


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## smeric28 (Nov 16, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> I agree even if NM is allowed it is prudent to use MC, FMC or EMT.
> 
> This particular job has a switch at the top of the stairs and also on the wall panel.



The main problem with using NM is that i must be protected or run in walls when under 8' from the floor. your install looks pretty good like the other guy said use some straps for the nm runs and the one run off the bottom of the switch it too short, i would have made it longer and strapped it to the wall once before running over. If the heater is in an attic or concealed in a wall you could run romex right to it.....


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

smeric28 said:


> The main problem with using NM is that i must be protected or run in walls when under 8' from the floor.


Says who? That is not an NEC requirement.


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

According to my peers my installation is not code compliant because I didn't use EMT to the boiler and that's an NEC requirement.

http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=OILHEAT;action=display;num=1259456854


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> According to my peers my installation is not code compliant because I didn't use EMT to the boiler and that's an NEC requirement.
> 
> http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=OILHEAT;action=display;num=1259456854


One thing you find out from this forum is there is a lot of mis-information going around.

If the boiler in in the basement and the wires come out of the ceiling, you need to sleeve it in EMT.

The wires just can't "float" out of the ceiling for six feet.

If the wires are run on a concrete wall.. all you need is a piece of 1x4 wood mounted to the concrete and the wires get stapled to the wood.


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

It makes sense to use EMT for a boiler drop. But in this particular installation it does not make sense to me to use EMT. I believe that misinformation in general is common in many aspects of life.

Thanks for all the help gents and I'll try to tighten up my installs in the future on the electrical side.

Ron


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

R Mannino said:


> According to my peers my installation is not code compliant because I didn't use EMT to the boiler and that's an NEC requirement.
> 
> http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=OILHEAT;action=display;num=1259456854


They are wrong. Any wiring method is suitable as long as it's NEC and local code compliant.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Two things to remember about wiring a boiler, physical protection of the conductors and the equipment grounding conductor.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Two things to remember about wiring a boiler, physical protection of the conductors and the equipment grounding conductor.


Truth be told I don't get too concerned about the EGC, at least between the pumps, controls, etc. You have a metal boiler that is interconnected with metal tubing and fittings. It doesn't get bonded much better than a boiler. :laughing:


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## NoSpark (Dec 11, 2009)

Is the wiring to this 4" box code compliant? http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/attachments/dscf1812.jpg


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

NoSpark said:


> Is the wiring to this 4" box code compliant? http://forum.oiltechtalk.com/attachments/dscf1812.jpg


It's had to tell if it's a deep box or not, but it looks like it's way over filled. That's one of the most common mistakes I see that oil burner electricians make is stuffing a box full of wires like that.


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## NoSpark (Dec 11, 2009)

I can tell you that its NOT a deep box. At 11 conductors, I too would have to say its overloaded. Not being a professional electrician, my knowledge of code is admittedly weak so a big THANKS for your reply. Can you quote the section of NEC that applies to an obvioulsy overloaded box like that one?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It's had to tell if it's a deep box or not, but it looks like it's way over filled. That's one of the most common mistakes I see that oil burner electricians make is stuffing a box full of wires like that.


They are not "oil burner electricians" :no:

They are oil burner service men or plumbers :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> They are not "oil burner electricians" :no:
> 
> They are oil burner service men or plumbers :thumbsup:


If you say so. 

We have an "oil burner electrician" license where I live.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> If you say so.
> 
> We have an "oil burner electrician" license where I live.


We have "restricted licenses" here also for A/C and Boiler Installers

I go what the trucks says.. HACKS PLUMBING SERVICE 

If you had a restricted license to install toilet bowls with seat heaters. would you be called a plumber?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> We have "restricted licenses" here also for A/C and Boiler Installers
> 
> I go what the trucks says.. HACKS PLUMBING SERVICE
> 
> If you had a restricted license to install toilet bowls with seat heaters. would you be called a plumber?


:sleep1:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> :sleep1:


Is that in LAYMENS terms :laughing::laughing:


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> just curious but shouldn't the electrician be doing all this? You know,someone familiar with the certain codes of such an install?


Here in the Great Police of New Jersey plumbers and HVAC contractors are exempt from electrical licensing laws for the installation of the boiler or furnace. They do however, have to obtain a permit. AC units and water heaters are required to be installed by NJ licensed electrical contractors and require permits. 

In my experience plumbers and HVAC contractors don't have a clue about proper grounding, wiring methods, transition of wiring methods, box fill and grounding. One of my favorites is when they slide the AC cable down the EMT without using the proper connectors for the transition in wiring methods. To hell with grounding!!


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## R Mannino (Dec 2, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It's had to tell if it's a deep box or not, but it looks like it's way over filled. That's one of the most common mistakes I see that oil burner electricians make is stuffing a box full of wires like that.



Yes it's over filled, I couldn't find an extension box.


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