# swimming pool pumps gfci protected



## Shawn23 (Jan 5, 2011)

In my CE class it was said that the 2011 code is requiring pool pumps to be gfci protected.
My question is how can you do that when the pump does not have a neutral?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Shawn23 said:


> In my CE class it was said that the 2011 code is requiring pool pumps to be gfci protected.
> My question is how can you do that when the pump does not have a neutral?


The pump doesn't have to. The breaker will (if it's a 2 pole).

Pete


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Shawn23 said:


> In my CE class it was said that the 2011 code is requiring pool pumps to be gfci protected.
> My question is how can you do that when the pump does not have a neutral?


Two pole gfi's monitor current on each ''leg'' or whatever we have decided to call them around here. If it gets out of balance then off goes the device. 2 pole gfi's come with a neutral pigtail on them, so theoretically you could hook up a 240 volt something or other that did have a neutral and it will work for that also.


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## Shawn23 (Jan 5, 2011)

2011 680.21 (C) Says it has to be


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

sometimes a pix helps....









~CS~


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## nyerinfl (Dec 1, 2007)

Piggybacking off the original question if you have a 50 amp supply to a pool panel with multiple pumps is it permissible to gfi protect the 50 amp supply, thus the whole panel, and then use non-gfi breakers to supply the individual pumps?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

nyerinfl said:


> Piggybacking off the original question if you have a 50 amp supply to a pool panel with multiple pumps is it permissible to gfi protect the 50 amp supply, thus the whole panel, and then use non-gfi breakers to supply the individual pumps?


Yes it is. The downside to that configuration is that all the leakage current is additive. Once the feeder breaker senses 4 to 6 mA the whole panel goes down.

Pete


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Shawn23 said:


> In my CE class it was said that the 2011 code is requiring pool pumps to be gfci protected.
> My question is how can you do that when the pump does not have a neutral?


 *Sorry for the late response.*​ ​ *(C) GFCI Protection. *​​​​Outlets supplying pool pump motors​
connected to single-phase, 120 volt through 240 volt branch​ circuits, *rated 15 or 20 amperes*, whether by receptacle or by​ direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuitinterrupter​ protection for personnel.

No. Not if the breaker is 25A or above.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Shawn23 said:


> 2011 680.21 (C) Says it has to be


Yes the pump needs gfci but the breaker does not need a load side neutral just the line side neutral


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

I think I need to take one last code refresher course another words" one more for the Gipper".
:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yes the pump needs gfci but the breaker does not need a load side neutral just the line side neutral


Not under the 2011 NEC.. 2014 NEC requires GFI protection for all single phase pump motors.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

electures said:


> Not under the 2011 NEC.. 2014 NEC requires GFI protection for all single phase pump motors.


What does the 2014 NEC change have to do with what I stated.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I stated you need gfci protection but you do not need to have a load side neutral for the gfci breaker to function


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> What does the 2014 NEC change have to do with what I stated.


The 15A and 20A wording was eliminated. It now states all single phase have to be GFI protected.

The 2011 states only 15A and 20A.


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I stated you need gfci protection but you do not need to have a load side neutral for the gfci breaker to function


 Please explain how GFI protection is required. I stated the exact NEC section from the 2011 NEC.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

electures said:


> The 15A and 20A wording was eliminated. It now states all single phase have to be GFI protected.
> 
> The 2011 states only 15A and 20A.





electures said:


> Please explain how GFI protection is required. I stated the exact NEC section from the 2011 NEC.


The op was asking about pool pumps needing gfci protection. Of course in the 2011 it was only required for single phase 15 and 20 amp pumps. I never stated that was not the case. In the 2014 it expanded the gfci to include all single phase motors because some contractors would install a dp 25 amp breaker on the pool motor and forego the gfci requirement-- that is why they changed it in 2014.

The OP was, I assumed talking about residential pools - in most cases they are not more than 20 amps- requiring gfci protection but more specifically he was asking how to do it without a neutral to the pump. I stated you did not need a neutral to the pump for the gfci to work. Not sure where the confusion is...


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Sorry for the late posts. Haven't been on in a while and was cruzing the forum. Thanks for your responses.

Kevin


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

The 2014 changes to the NEC are irrelevant to the OP's question anyway.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Shawn23 said:


> In my CE class it was said that the 2011 code is requiring pool pumps to be gfci protected.
> My question is how can you do that when the pump does not have a neutral?


The two pole GFCI breaker has the comparator circuit in it between the two ungrounded phases. You will bond the EGC in the normal fashion.


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