# 220V 7-1/2 HP Irrigation pump



## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Hello,

I am connecting my first large irrigation pump. I am on my own to connect the control portion of the system. No diagram supplied. 

There is a a rain bird controller with what looks like a 24V DC output to signal to the pump. 

Can anyone please help lay out how I should layout this control circuit?


Thank you. 


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Is this a DIY question?

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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

The sprinkler controllers I've seen use 24VAC, that's pretty standard. Unless you can find the relay contact rating for the sprinkler controller, I might be inclined to fire a small 24v ice cube relay that in turn fires a 7.5HP nema rated contactor/starter with a 240v coil. 



Whether you need a complete starter or just a contactor will depend on whether the irrigation pump has a thermal protector built in to it or not. Most single phase do, but not all.


Pretty straight forward deal, would be good practice for a guy like yourself to sketch out a wiring schematic for practice. It'd be a good learning experience. 



Sketch something out, take a pic and post it, and we can tell you what you did wrong/right.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

Peewee0413 said:


> Is this a DIY question?
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


 sounds a lot like a test question too.
:vs_laugh:this is a very simple set-up to do!
consider what you need to control and what your control voltage and working voltage is.
design it on paper first 

are you going to use plc, relay logic, or manual control switching?


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Depends on the type of pump. Some pumps use a pressure switch and dont have any control wiring to the rain bird (you can add a relay in the circuit just to be sure a leak doesn't start the pump). Some rain birds controls solenoids for different zones. So it really depends on what hardware you have to begin with.


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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Peewee0413 said:


> Is this a DIY question?
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk




No,

Thanks for the help. 


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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Cow said:


> The sprinkler controllers I've seen use 24VAC, that's pretty standard. Unless you can find the relay contact rating for the sprinkler controller, I might be inclined to fire a small 24v ice cube relay that in turn fires a 7.5HP nema rated contactor/starter with a 240v coil.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you.









Here’s the motor in question. 

Thanks 


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

You really didnt give anyone enough info to help. 

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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Peewee0413 said:


> You really didnt give anyone enough info to help.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk




Literally all I have to go off of. 


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Well 24v can't run the motor, so a relay or contactor is a good start.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Peewee0413 said:


> Well 24v can't run the motor, so a relay is a good start.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Well 7.5hp, you may want to get a contactor.

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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Geez tapatalk was slow to post my stuff......

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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Peewee0413 said:


> Well 24v can't run the motor, so a relay or contactor is a good start.




Feel better about yourself? Congratulations.

Get a life. 


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

FVSparky said:


> Feel better about yourself? Congratulations.
> 
> Get a life.
> 
> ...


Wow... "Hands FVSparky a tampon"

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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

FVSparky said:


> Feel better about yourself? Congratulations.
> 
> Get a life.
> 
> ...



You have a funny way of asking for help on a forum full of bunch of people who have ZERO obligation to give a $hit about your problem or social awkwardness. So post a schematic of what YOU came up with or maybe try your luck on diychatroom or some landscaper forum where they may be able to better assist you.


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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Peewee0413 said:


> Wow... "Hands FVSparky a tampon"
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk




You are apart of the problem with these communities. 

Anytime I come on here, or look on an electrician group on FB, there’s a group of guys like yourself. Always looking to belittle and shame others. A simple question was asked, for you maybe it’s dead simple. For me, I’ve never had to even look at a motor in my career. I’m simply asking to be pointed in the right direction. And I appreciate those who took a minute to do so. 




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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Cow said:


> You have a funny way of asking for help on a forum full of bunch of people who have ZERO obligation to give a $hit about your problem or social awkwardness. So post a schematic of what YOU came up with or maybe try your luck on diychatroom or some landscaper forum where they may be able to better assist you.




My direct quote of Peewee has nothing to do with my original question, or pertains to anybody else on this board. 


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

I simply said there wasnt enough info to help. Gave the only answer i could with the info provided. You said 24v output and sent a pic of a 240v motor. I said use a relay or contactor. If you want a better answer let us know if there is a pressure switch.


FVSparky said:


> You are apart of the problem with these communities.
> 
> Anytime I come on here, or look on an electrician group on FB, there’s a group of guys like yourself. Always looking to belittle and shame others. A simple question was asked, for you maybe it’s dead simple. For me, I’ve never had to even look at a motor in my career. I’m simply asking to be pointed in the right direction. And I appreciate those who took a minute to do so.
> 
> ...


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Peewee0413 said:


> I simply said there wasnt enough info to help. Gave the only answer i could with the info provided. You said 24v output and sent a pic of a 240v motor. I said use a relay or contactor. If you want a better answer let us know if there is a pressure switch.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


And if youve never looked at a Motor in your career, then maybe for safety reasons you should have an experienced electrician perform the work. That noy belittling, thats knowing electricity is nothing to play with.

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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

Peewee0413 said:


> And if youve never looked at a Motor in your career, then maybe for safety reasons you should have an experienced electrician perform the work. That noy belittling, thats knowing electricity is nothing to play with.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk




Giving up and walking away wasn’t how I was taught, that’s not how you grow. 

I know enough to keep myself and others safe. A motor is simply a load, i understand how to feed it and connect it safely. My question pertains simply to the control of the motor, and how the rain bird is connected to the relay and the coil of the contactor. 


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

The first thing with controls, is you need to know your sequence and how you want it controlled, i.e. what tells it to start, when should it stop, what limits it(pressure switch?), etc.


Define your operation sequence, that's your first step.
Then draw it out, while also determining what devices you'll be needing to make it work.
Wire it.
Test it.
Drive away.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

FVSparky said:


> Giving up and walking away wasn’t how I was taught, that’s not how you grow.
> 
> I know enough to keep myself and others safe. A motor is simply a load, i understand how to feed it and connect it safely. My question pertains simply to the control of the motor, and how the rain bird is connected to the relay and the coil of the contactor.
> 
> ...


Im guess from that statement you have purchased the box that has a relay and a contactor already built in. If that is the case i have no idea what could be confusing as its prewired.


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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

gpop said:


> Im guess from that statement you have purchased the box that has a relay and a contactor already built in. If that is the case i have no idea what could be confusing as its prewired.




No, I have not purchased this, as I have no idea it exists. If it did that would save me the hassle of building from scratch. 


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

The basics: You will need a starter with a coil that is compatible to your control circuit to cycle power off-on to the motor. The controls can be as simple as an off-on switch, but usually there are more controls involved- timers, pressure switches, zone control valves, etc. If there is a "store bought" controller, it may take care of all of the control logic. How your customer wants this system to operate will determine the control functions needed.

If the controller has a 24 VAC output for pump run, and this controller will do all control functions required, use this output to energize an interposing relay. Use a contact, on this relay, to energize the starter coil with what ever control voltage used.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

FVSparky said:


> No, I have not purchased this, as I have no idea it exists. If it did that would save me the hassle of building from scratch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


goggle "sprinkler pump starter 40 amp"

Also 240v disconnect (commonly used on ac units)

Depending on how you plan to get power to the controller you may also need a push button breaker.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

the rainbird manuals, which you can download, contain a lot of the information that you probably are looking for. you haven't provided much detail, and a 7hp motor is way larger than a normal house, so don't even know what you are working on.


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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

varmit said:


> The basics: You will need a starter with a coil that is compatible to your control circuit to cycle power off-on to the motor. The controls can be as simple as an off-on switch, but usually there are more controls involved- timers, pressure switches, zone control valves, etc. If there is a "store bought" controller, it may take care of all of the control logic. How your customer wants this system to operate will determine the control functions needed.
> 
> If the controller has a 24 VAC output for pump run, and this controller will do all control functions required, use this output to energize an interposing relay. Use a contact, on this relay, to energize the starter coil with what ever control voltage used.




10/4. I think I have a handle on this now. I appreciate your input. 

The pump is on a farm for getting water to the back field. The only demand for the pump is going to be determined by the timer in the rain bird. He’s also asked for a bypass switch. I think a bypass could easily be done on the rain bird itself though. 




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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

gpop said:


> goggle "sprinkler pump starter 40 amp"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I do have a 240v fused disconnect in line. 


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Well that was fun.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

FVSparky said:


> 10/4. I think I have a handle on this now. I appreciate your input
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Honestly? I don't think you do.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Such a beast needs a #2 NEMA contactor. At 24 Volts that puppy is going to suck down the Amps.


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## FVSparky (Jul 30, 2017)

telsa said:


> Such a beast needs a #2 NEMA contactor. At 24 Volts that puppy is going to suck down the Amps.




Pretty sure the title states the motor is 220. 

The control portion is 24V 

Thanks for your input. 


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

At 24V the COIL is going to suck down the amps.

The motor is going to run 43-50 Amps, depending upon load.

I have two of these puppies, so I know.

Say, do you want a spare?


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

FVSparky said:


> Pretty sure the title states the motor is 220.
> 
> The control portion is 24V
> 
> ...



taking offense at what is said is common but understand this we have so many diy who do not follow rules that we tend to get testy about it.
as the others have stated how you post a question influences our response.
your answer to our responses tends to peg you as a diy.
we don't mind helping out but don't get into a pissing match here.
if you've never been belted with 220 i can tell you it hurts like hell!


as i posted before draw the complete circuit out on paper. so you can see where the current flows.
your control voltage is 24 volts! it will not run a 220 volt motor 



so you need the control voltage to actuate a contactor large enough to handle the voltage and current draw of the motor.
this is a simple task! 

if you think its hard you should try designing a multilevel cascade relay alarm system.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Cow said:


> Pretty straight forward deal, would be good practice for a guy like yourself to sketch out a wiring schematic for practice. It'd be a good learning experience.
> Sketch something out, take a pic and post it, and we can tell you what you did wrong/right.


OP. This is the way you "grow" using your words.
This is simple for guys that work on detailed control systems and processes. So take it easy.

*The key to learning how to do motor control starts with paper and pencil with a good eraser.*


Also we are probably much older than you and we did not have a place like this to come to for advice.
We either got help on the job or found help from the motor or sprinkler company. 

But the majority of the guys that are responding had to learn themselves.
You are so damn lucky to be able to ask these questions and you are getting answers for FREE.


There is one guy here that is running a company purely on advice from this forum. In our day that could not have been possible.


So look up, Google "basic motor control diagrams" and pick one you think best suits the situation. Copy it and post it and tell us the plan. Use the drawing to make your own drawing if that helps.

I bet you get a lot more help this way.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Drive a small relay off the controller then run your controls of that, some of those controller outputs don't have a lot of balls.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Drive a small relay off the controller then run your controls of that, some of those controller outputs don't have a lot of balls.



If he just followed your accurate advice and it worked he would probably never learn to actually draw out the circuit himself.


This was me in my early years when controls were foreign to me.
I had guys on the job draw it for me and I would go and install from the drawing. But I did not know how to make my own drawing. To use my head.

That translates to "I really did not know how the circuit behaved". If it worked I was good.


Later when I got into manufacturing I had a guy (retired Navy electrician) take me under his wing and actually teach me.
Show me how everything worked and even gave me sample drawing tests. To see if I could do it myself from start to finish. I had the finish part down long before that. But the true start was the drawing.


He taught me all he knew and when I left that job I was teaching other guys and doing the things my teacher had taught me all by myself.


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