# Help with rough in for outside lights and receptacles



## 3D Electric

Use these boxes for both lights and receptacles. We use an oversized plate to cover the entire box. 3 5/8" hole saw and it will save you so much time. Good luck! :thumbsup:

*Edit. If necessary take your tin snips and cut the wing back a little bit, or use longer 8-32 screws to allow for a deeper wall thickness.


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## wendon

Ibewye said:


> Hey fellas, wiring up my new house and normally work in industrial/commercial. My siding is already on but exterior walls still open on inside. Two questions I need help with:
> 1) standard outside light sconce-what type of box do your normally use and what method for mounting? I was thinking hole saw through exterior wall and mounting metal octagon to a piece of blocking I can install from inside. Octagon would sit flush with siding. I could even put in a 8x6 piece of trim around box so light would sit flush. Does this sound right?
> 2) exterior gfi-same question, don't want surfaces mount box but I wasn't sure if there's a specific type of box just for this purpose. I did see a recessed box kit and supply house that had a flange for vinyl siding but it looked like it had to be roughed in before siding. Can I basically use the same idea I had for lights?
> I'm using a siding called LP smart side which is basically wood so I'm comfortable cutting and notching whatever I need to, and I'm using the flush gfi covers with the expandable rubber shroud thing. Thanks for any help and all the help you've given already.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We normally use siding blocks for lights etc. In your case I'd do just as you described. Cut your hole, mount your box on the block, set your box so it is flush with the angle of the siding and then screw the block into the studs. I prefer the siding blocks because you're only drilling a small hole into the envelope of the house.


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## 3xdad

Old work (remodel boxes).


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## 99cents

I just screw on a pan box with a piece of blocking in behind if I don't hit a stud. Sawzall a hole for the device box beside a stud. Might be a little more difficult if the siding is on already.


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## 480sparky

My first questions are what type of siding? Hardboard? Fiber-cement? Vertical? Shiplap? Cedar? Vinyl? What is the pattern.... overlap? Dutchlap? Board & batten?


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## Black Dog

http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=arl-8141dbl




http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=arl-8141dbl


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## Ibewye

480sparky said:


> My first questions are what type of siding? Hardboard? Fiber-cement? Vertical? Shiplap? Cedar? Vinyl? What is the pattern.... overlap? Dutchlap? Board & batten?



My siding is LP Smartside which is basically a 6"lap siding made made out of OSB, really easy to work with. My walls are still accessible from inside and I'm pretty good at notching and cutting anything with my oscillating saw.
There's been lots of helpful suggestions on here but as far as the siding plates they seem to all be plastic, my house trim is basically 5/4" stock up to 8" wide so it seems like I'm best to make my own plates to, just gotta find the right box to suit those needs. Between all the replies one of them will work, going through them now. 


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## Ibewye

99cents said:


> I just screw on a pan box with a piece of blocking in behind if I don't hit a stud. Sawzall a hole for the device box beside a stud. Might be a little more difficult if the siding is on already.



So your saying the pan box for the lights would essentially be surface mounted to the sheathing but still flush with the siding or a piece of trim I set over it correct...? This saves me from having to hole saw through exterior wall which is good, but you've never had an issue with an outdoor sconce having room not having enough room for wiring behind it? I'm only asking bc I honestly haven't installed a lot of resi lights or pancake boxes (they still seem odd to me) as everything at work has always been your standard box depth or surface mount. Thanks for help 


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## Ibewye

Black Dog said:


> http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=arl-8141dbl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=arl-8141dbl



So basically the octagon in the first pic mounts in wall and then this plate goes over top that essentially sealing everything but still giving you room for wiring behind the plate, correct? I like but not sure the vinyl wood go very well on the house as everything else is wood but once lights get on there I don't think anyone would notice, thanks again. 


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## chicken steve

You can make up your own backer plates Ibe, anything that seats the fixture(s) flush and secure will do.....~CS~


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## Ibewye

3D Electric said:


> Use these boxes for both lights and receptacles. We use an oversized plate to cover the entire box. 3 5/8" hole saw and it will save you so much time. Good luck! :thumbsup:
> 
> *Edit. If necessary take your tin snips and cut the wing back a little bit, or use longer 8-32 screws to allow for a deeper wall thickness.



So would you still need blocking if you use this box? And I'm assuming the plate is just acting as a seal and a flat surface to mount the lights on correct? And basically the box mounts flush with the shearing?


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## 99cents

Ibewye said:


> So your saying the pan box for the lights would essentially be surface mounted to the sheathing but still flush with the siding or a piece of trim I set over it correct...? This saves me from having to hole saw through exterior wall which is good, but you've never had an issue with an outdoor sconce having room not having enough room for wiring behind it? I'm only asking bc I honestly haven't installed a lot of resi lights or pancake boxes (they still seem odd to me) as everything at work has always been your standard box depth or surface mount. Thanks for help
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, just don't use the center knockout. And don't use a pan box for feed through.


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## JohnJ65

If your siding is already up I would use one of these for the receptacles. Use the horizontal version so it will fit on one of the siding slats and not overlap two of them. It is made of PVC and can be painted to match your siding when finished. 

http://www.amazon.com/Arlington-DBHR1C-1-Electrical-Weatherproof-Construction/dp/B004K1G0OU

I have used several of these for retrofit outside lights or where the house has been sided and the lights are not supported or are screwed up after a siding job. The ones without the flanges are not easy to find so I just get the flanged ones and break the flanges off for retrofit jobs(they are made to do that). They can also be painted to match. You can get them with a larger flange for larger fixtures. Cat#8081FDBL. 

http://www.amazon.com/Arlington-808...qid=1423324915&sr=1-1&keywords=arlington+8081

Hope this helps you out.


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## nrp3

Arlington products are great if you find ones that work with your siding type. The receptacle boxes recess into the wall so you aren't stuck with the awful bubble covers. Those siding blocks for lights work great but best with #14. Sometimes making a flat with Azek and using a metal octagon with wings or a round plastic old work box is the way to go.


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## trevorawalton

Having a similar issue. I'm a commercial electrician for the most part with minimal residential experience. 
Bought these trim blocks for outdoor recepticles, used a metal handy box and passed inspection just fine. Went to trim out with GFCI and Hubbell ML500Z low profile waterproof cover and found that the Handy box is way to shallow for the GFCI and looks and fits like **** with that cover on there. I could use a GFCI breaker, or a big Bell box, sure. But those aren't my favorite options.
The last picture was my mock up for how it was supposed to look!
Any other suggestions?


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## cabletie

Wow 19,000 views and few replies. 

http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/i...for-flat-surface-retrofit-construction/DBVR1C


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## Mulder

cabletie said:


> Wow 19,000 views and few replies.
> 
> http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/i...for-flat-surface-retrofit-construction/DBVR1C



3 1/2 year old thread.


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## ElectricMon

They also have slim leviton ones you just have to look for it idk if they make a slim wr though


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## lighterup

cabletie said:


> Wow 19,000 views and few replies.
> 
> http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/i...for-flat-surface-retrofit-construction/DBVR1C


HO's / DIYers generally don't know about these products cause
big box store doesn't sell them ...but yep...that's the way I would go too.


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## flyboy

trevorawalton said:


> Having a similar issue. I'm a commercial electrician for the most part with minimal residential experience.
> Bought these trim blocks for outdoor recepticles, used a metal handy box and passed inspection just fine. Went to trim out with GFCI and Hubbell ML500Z low profile waterproof cover and found that the Handy box is way to shallow for the GFCI and looks and fits like **** with that cover on there. I could use a GFCI breaker, or a big Bell box, sure. But those aren't my favorite options.
> The last picture was my mock up for how it was supposed to look!
> Any other suggestions?


Are you kidding? I don't mean be harsh, but what electrician would even consider using a handy box for any electrical application today? Much less to install a GFCI device in. :no:

Handy boxes should be gathered up and melted down to make kick plates. :vs_laugh:


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## lighterup

flyboy said:


> Are you kidding? I don't mean be harsh, but what electrician would even consider using a handy box for any electrical application today? Much less to install a GFCI device in. :no:
> 
> Handy boxes should be gathered up and melted down to make kick plates. :vs_laugh:


Bingo!
Hence my DIYer / HO comment above....:devil3:

Whenever someone comes on ET , doesn't fill out their profile 
and starts out by saying ..."I usually only do commercial ...but"....

As if there's really that vast gulf of difference....:vs_laugh:

It's a dead give away.


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## readydave8

trevorawalton said:


> Having a similar issue. I'm a commercial electrician for the most part with minimal residential experience.
> Bought these trim blocks for outdoor recepticles, used a metal handy box and passed inspection just fine. Went to trim out with GFCI and Hubbell ML500Z low profile waterproof cover and found that the Handy box is way to shallow for the GFCI and looks and fits like **** with that cover on there. I could use a GFCI breaker, or a big Bell box, sure. But those aren't my favorite options.
> The last picture was my mock up for how it was supposed to look!
> Any other suggestions?


yeah I'm wondering also why a commercial electrician would not have an idea how big a handybox is and how big a GFCI receptacle is

Bet that ain't all you missed!

What is that trim block? Looks homemade.

but anyway tear it out and do it right, cheap education


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## tmessner

Arlington Industries makes something for any occasion. Now if the supply house would stock 3 of everything in every color.


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## Switched

tmessner said:


> Arlington Industries makes something for any occasion. Now if the supply house would stock 3 of everything in every color.


If the SH would stock anything these days. I keep calling in for an order, and they keep saying "This and that are on backorder..." 

At that point I just tell them, cancel the order I'll go to HD or order off of Amazon.


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## lighterup

Switched said:


> If the SH would stock anything these days. I keep calling in for an order, and they keep saying "This and that are on backorder..."
> 
> At that point I just tell them, cancel the order I'll go to HD or order off of Amazon.


Last week I went to supply house for an order and they wanted me
to wait for the following...

....250' rolls of NM
....Acorn nuts (ground rod termination)

:vs_laugh:


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## Forge Boyz

lighterup said:


> Last week I went to supply house for an order and they wanted me
> to wait for the following...
> 
> ....250' rolls of NM
> ....Acorn nuts (ground rod termination)
> 
> :vs_laugh:


Unfortunately this is all too familiar. Seems like they are always out of very common stock.

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## matt1124

Wanted H7ICAT cans today, out.

They have a pallet of 50# bags of deer corn for some promotion going on, but no can lights.


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