# Two machines 220 or 440



## Johnnyp (Aug 7, 2019)

Went and briefly did a walk thru on wiring two machines. Could not find a name plate on it. The control cabinet is labeled 220 or 440 but there is a sticker near shut off labeled 220. My question is I have to do a little more research on what the draw will be I would rather wire it for 480 since the building has it available. But do I have re wire the entire control cabinet I assume probably change some pins around for the control transformer, but how bout the motor or 
motors ?


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Is there any drawing at all for the control panel? That would tell you how the dual voltage part is done. Schematics on the motor? What kind of "sticker" has the 220 label? If it is a hand written one, I'd be skeptical. Might have to dig out your meter, some paper and a pen and make a drawing or two.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Usually to best indicator of previous voltage connection is how the control transformer line side is connected. BUT ALWAYS CHECK EVERYTHING BEFORE CONNECTING THE EQUIPMENT. 

If the voltage connection needs to be changed, the line side transformer jumpers would be changed and the motor connections in the motor pecker head. If there are heaters or other equipment that operates on line voltage, these may need some connection changes.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

If it’s old enough to be labeled 220-440, it should be gone over carefully and old repairs looked at. That was a voltage standard circa 50’s and before. The machine was probably built to last, but wire insulation gets brittle after 50+ years.


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

Also check the Cycles. A customer purchased used equipment that was 220/440, 50 Hz. The instructions were in Italian only. It was interesting to connect and required a lot a research.
Look at the motors.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Going from 220 to 440 (240 to 480), the motor starters will all be fine because the motor current will go DOWN, meaning the components will have more than enough of a rating (it's not always so going the other way). But in addition to the control transformer taps, you WILL have to change / adjust the overloads and replace any motor circuit breakers or fuses to meet code at the higher voltage / lower current.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

JRaef said:


> Going from 220 to 440 (240 to 480), the motor starters will all be fine because the motor current will go DOWN, meaning the components will have more than enough of a rating (it's not always so going the other way). But in addition to the control transformer taps, you WILL have to change / adjust the overloads and replace any motor circuit breakers or fuses to meet code at the higher voltage / lower current.


This is where it sometimes gets interesting, if it's a AB or Sq.D you'll be fine, if it's a Clark Controller or an ITE,[or some other old odd brand] well it's Ebay or a starter swap.:sad:


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Be careful if the equipment is 440 volts. Older equipment usually has a 10 % variance and 10 % added to 440 is 484 volts. Around here the 480 volt services can average 490 volts in the winter time when the network loading is low. That would be stressing out the 440 volt equipment. As someone else said, check the motor tags and how they are connected and check the control transformers. I am sure many of us burnt out equipment because of some undocumented modifications. I know I have.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

440 is also typically 50 Hz not 60. Which means the motor turns faster but since V/Hz is constant the motor rated voltage is now 528 V (it will take 490 V easily) so as a consequence since the voltage is now below what it was designed for (440 @ 50 Hz or 528 @ 60 Hz) the name plate HP and torque is much less. If it gets loaded it will be “weak” and overload easily.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

On older equipment markings it was a common, though technically incorrect, marking of 480 volt equipment at 440 volt. Now days, 440 usually does signify 50 hertz equipment.


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> This is where it sometimes gets interesting, if it's a AB or Sq.D you'll be fine, if it's a Clark Controller or an ITE,[or some other old odd brand] well it's Ebay or a starter swap.:sad:


Had to change the voltage on a cardboard baler that was wired for 480 & they only had 240V 3Ø, and the OEM starter was a Joslyn-Clark, was simpler to stick a A-B in & be done with it.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The winding taps and how they were connected is highly revealing.

The Frame Size can be for a truly old motor.

'U' became 'T' in the 1960s. Look for its frame size on the legend, if any.

Just on the economics, any motor that old should be scrapped.

They use too much juice versus current technology. They'd have to be driving some special mechanism that operates but a short time each season, or some such.

This makes them a waste of labor to even install.

Other indications of extreme age: how are the bearings ? 

Of course, you should meg it as a matter of routine. Scrap-worthy motors are fobbed off on to fools all the time in the second-hand market.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't know how big of machine you are working on....But i would keep the voltage its currently at.....you could be opening up a can of worms...you will think you need to just change a few motors and control transformer and it will expanding to many other unknown things.


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