# Mindgames from foremen



## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

Seen some of that at a big shop. Forman is an a$$ kisser and got his position that way manipulating his boss and the crews. If the job does poorly it's your fault, if it makes tons of money he looks good. Speed does not mean accuracy, got to make sure it's done right first. Just got to do the best you can.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

henderson14 said:


> Will foremen lie to you about what another foremen, GF, or super said about your performance to get you to work faster? I ask because it seems like it has been happening to me with the company I work for.
> 
> The first time this happened the Foreman said that the previous foremen and our super said I was a good worker. But later he said I needed to work faster and that the super said I haven't had a good review yet, not remembering what he first told me when I got on the job. I even asked him "didn't (previous forman name) say I did good?" He said he didn't say anything, but he actually did. A few days later he said that I was doing great and that I "was going to save his job." After I left the job he said he told the super that I was slow and just acted like I wasnt good. But after the job I was asked to sit by the super and he acted like he would do anything to keep me, so apparently everything he said was a lie.
> 
> The same thing is happening to me on the job I am on now. What the foreman is saying about my performance is not matching up or really making sense. After he got mad, he said our GF/hybrid GF/forman, sent me to him because he was tired of dealing with me and my partner. But we were both told we were doing good earlier in the job and really had no complaints or problems before we started with the new formen.


Yes as moral value declines bearing false witness to save the foreman's hide will prevail this is the worst part of any trade when a person of poor moral character is put in charge and does not himself pull his own weight

I worked as a foreman for many years and dealt with many back stabbers every time someone would come to me and say SO and SO is slow and a poor worker ,So I would check it out for my self I would find a few projects and put in a little more attention on the snitch and the accused without either one knowing what was going on and what I found was the snitch was the real slacker almost always.

Many of those guys rise to the top undetected because the one thing they are good at is blaming others to cover up the fact that they are really the slackers not the guy they try to pin it on.

And I'll bet this is the case with your foreman..Good luck


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

There's a ton of bs games. I deal with some of the same bs. Right now I am happy cause I'm doing the F/A which I need to learn. Not too tuff just never really did it.

As to the original question will the foreman lie...yes he will...


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

I don't think they are actually "throwing me under the bus", because I still had a good review after I was asked to sit. If that foreman would have actually given me a bad review my super wouldn't have wanted to keep me so bad. Thats why I think it is just to make me work faster.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

henderson14 said:


> Will foremen lie to you about what another foremen, GF, or super said about your performance to get you to work faster? I ask because it seems like it has been happening to me with the company I work for.
> 
> The first time this happened the Foreman said that the previous foremen and our super said I was a good worker. But later he said I needed to work faster and that the super said I haven't had a good review yet, not remembering what he first told me when I got on the job. I even asked him "didn't (previous forman name) say I did good?" He said he didn't say anything, but he actually did. A few days later he said that I was doing great and that I "was going to save his job." After I left the job he said he told the super that I was slow and just acted like I wasnt good. But after the job I was asked to sit by the super and he acted like he would do anything to keep me, so apparently everything he said was a lie.
> 
> The same thing is happening to me on the job I am on now. What the foreman is saying about my performance is not matching up or really making sense. After he got mad, he said our GF/hybrid GF/forman, sent me to him because he was tired of dealing with me and my partner. But we were both told we were doing good earlier in the job and really had no complaints or problems before we started with the new formen.



As a foreman, I will lie if asked by a worker what another foreman has said about them, if asked. I generally like to form my own opinions about a worker based on how he performs for me. I have 2 guys that came from another job who were not recommended by their previous foreman, but they came to be among my best workers. I would be annoyed if one of my guys started asking how he is doing all the time, if I see you are doing a good job I will personally come to you and say so. It totally depends on what kind of person you are working for, some of them can't be helped and should not be in their position in the first place.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Wait a sec... It is entirely possible that you're doing good AND you need to work faster. There's always room for improvement, and maybe he thinks your next area that needs improvement is speed?


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## eagerbeaver (Jan 29, 2012)

My journeyman/foreman definitely plays mind games with me. I am a first year apprentice, so I realize there are many things I do not know yet, but I often get the impression that I am expected to know these things from my journeyman. He took me through a crash course on bending conduit (bending 90s, kicks, and offsets) and now seems to expect me to be an expert pipe bender. Now when I ask him questions about bending pipe, he looks at me like I'm idiot, and tells me "didn't I already teach you that", which makes me think my progress is unsatisfactory. Then the monthly review comes around and he has given me great reviews so far, so I think he is playing mind games with me and trying to make me more capable of doing things on my own without his guidance.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

eagerbeaver said:


> My journeyman/foreman definitely plays mind games with me. I am a first year apprentice, so I realize there are many things I do not know yet, but I often get the impression that I am expected to know these things from my journeyman. He took me through a crash course on bending conduit (bending 90s, kicks, and offsets) and now seems to expect me to be an expert pipe bender. Now when I ask him questions about bending pipe, he looks at me like I'm idiot, and tells me "didn't I already teach you that", which makes me think my progress is unsatisfactory. Then the monthly review comes around and he has given me great reviews so far, so I think he is playing mind games with me and trying to make me more capable of doing things on my own without his guidance.


Bending conduit is easy.

Bending conduit with out waste and by eye, takes years of doing it. 

The first is a 10 minute bending course. 

The second is a skill that you continue to learn. 
But it's not something that a person can learn in a few minutes

If the conduit is hidden behind a wall then it don't need to be pretty. If its show pipe, then it's your own pride and skill that shows thru.

But you need to balance the idea of what waste is. Wasted time verses wasted material. Both cost $$$.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

henderson14 said:


> Will foremen lie to you about what another foremen, GF, or super said about your performance to get you to work faster?


Is your foreman a machine or a human?

If human anything is possible.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> Will foremen lie to you about what another foremen, GF, or super said about your performance to get you to work faster? I ask because it seems like it has been happening to me with the company I work for.
> 
> The first time this happened the Foreman said that the previous foremen and our super said I was a good worker. But later he said I needed to work faster and that the super said I haven't had a good review yet, not remembering what he first told me when I got on the job. I even asked him "didn't (previous forman name) say I did good?" He said he didn't say anything, but he actually did. A few days later he said that I was doing great and that I "was going to save his job." After I left the job he said he told the super that I was slow and just acted like I wasnt good. But after the job I was asked to sit by the super and he acted like he would do anything to keep me, so apparently everything he said was a lie.
> 
> The same thing is happening to me on the job I am on now. What the foreman is saying about my performance is not matching up or really making sense. After he got mad, he said our GF/hybrid GF/forman, sent me to him because he was tired of dealing with me and my partner. But we were both told we were doing good earlier in the job and really had no complaints or problems before we started with the new formen.


We all learn something as we invest time in our trade. 
I was brought up in a union shop. We were taught as apperintices to work hard, dont be afraid to get dirty and always go home tired. Then as a journeyman, it was understood that if you were not standing in front of someone, they were talking about you.
Just ignore the B.S. work smart, don't get caught up in the gossip and do your very best.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

jrannis said:


> We all learn something as we invest time in our trade.
> I was brought up in a union shop. We were taught as apperintices to work hard, dont be afraid to get dirty and always go home tired. *Then as a journeyman, it was understood that if you were not standing in front of someone, they were talking about you.*
> Just ignore the B.S. work smart, don't get caught up in the gossip and do your very best.


Well it's good to know this isn't a new phenomenon.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Is your foreman a machine or a human?
> 
> If human anything is possible.


 
Bob, Will you quit interjecting logic into our threads that is such a thread killer.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> Bob, Will you quit interjecting logic into out threads that is such a thread killer.:laughing:


:laughing:

Sorry 'bout that.


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

Just show up on time, be interested in your work, have pride in your work, perform work as instructed, keep your hands out of your pockets and you will be great.
Don't make "how you are doing" be a constant topic of conversation.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

Wirenuting said:


> Bending conduit is easy.
> 
> Bending conduit with out waste and by eye, takes years of doing it.
> 
> ...


I don't know....... Good conduit bending takes intelligence and um.... talent if you will. The job i just got off of had TONS of pipe. Probably 10,000 feet ,or more, per day for 6 months over the whole job. Some of the guys on there had been bending pipe for 30 years, and they had been bending pipe like a ****** for 30 years. I find it almost laughable how many guys that had been doing it for 10x longer than me would over bend a kick by a full inch every time id ask them for one. One day i was explaining to my toolie how to calculate the distance between bends on a double 45 90. Two old guys overheard us and said "what hell are you guys doing, calculating rocket fuel over there?" Ive come to the conclusion that poor pipe benders will always be poor pipe benders.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

eagerbeaver said:


> My journeyman/foreman definitely plays mind games with me. I am a first year apprentice, so I realize there are many things I do not know yet, but I often get the impression that I am expected to know these things from my journeyman. He took me through a crash course on bending conduit (bending 90s, kicks, and offsets) and now seems to expect me to be an expert pipe bender. Now when I ask him questions about bending pipe, he looks at me like I'm idiot, and tells me "didn't I already teach you that", which makes me think my progress is unsatisfactory. Then the monthly review comes around and he has given me great reviews so far, so I think he is playing mind games with me and trying to make me more capable of doing things on my own without his guidance.



Ya, but you are a first year. As long as you show you care and are willing to learn nothing is a big deal. You don't want to be hearing that as a 5th year.


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## eagerbeaver (Jan 29, 2012)

jimmy21 said:


> "Ive come to the conclusion that poor pipe benders will always be poor pipe benders".


Thats a little harsh, I'll bet you were not a great pipe bender within the first week of ever even touching a bender. I'll admit I'm not a great bender now, but I don't think that means I'm destined to an entire career of not knowing how to bend a kick.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

You bend pipe to look nice if it needs to look nice, otherwise get it up and make it go where it needs to turn something _on.

_I've worked with several lead guys that will ask me what I think of the new guys. I stay pretty neutral on my opinion because it's just not my place. Usually they've already made up their mind anyhow and are just looking for validation. Women do that, y'know.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jimmy21 said:


> I don't know....... Good conduit bending takes intelligence and um.... talent if you will. The job i just got off of had TONS of pipe. Probably 10,000 feet ,or more, per day for 6 months over the whole job. Some of the guys on there had been bending pipe for 30 years, and they had been bending pipe like a ****** for 30 years. I find it almost laughable how many guys that had been doing it for 10x longer than me would over bend a kick by a full inch every time id ask them for one. One day i was explaining to my toolie how to calculate the distance between bends on a double 45 90. Two old guys overheard us and said "what hell are you guys doing, calculating rocket fuel over there?" Ive come to the conclusion that poor pipe benders will always be poor pipe benders.



Get real, with proper training and a few stick mod men can be average pip installers, with practice they can improve their work. This ain't brain science or maybe you are hanging with the wrong crowd.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

I've def seen some fascitating stuff from some folks who are mechanics. Like making 1,000 bends...hugging every nuiance of the ceiling structure when they coulda dropped allthread....kept the pipe straight and actually pulled wire through it. Just recently I witnessed 4-4 pt sadlles in a span of maybe 25'. Hilarious. Another was just amazing. He hugged every single thing in the ceiling twisting and turning his conduit. Beating the grid by a mile...in the hallway...entered the room well below the ceiling and set his j-box for the 6 3/4's. I mean the pipe work that was to be above the drop ceiling in the hall was AWESOME looking. Didn't need to be that but whatever. Same ace mechanic had existing well done work coming up from a slab into a j-box. They built everything off with kendorff and for some reason or another sistered it...Sh*t happens So instead of doing the same or build it out with allthread he bends all these 10 degree bends in the 1" and it looks a mess and he's very proud of his 10's...

I find it fascinating that they can learn to run such nice looking pipe with very little else thought going into it. I think it comes from working in big companies and all they do is run pipe and don't have to pull into pipes they ran very often to know the pitfalls. Just a theory...Not everybody of course just a few I've seen. Again it's the knowledge that they posses combined with the knowledge they don't that is amazing to me.

I swear I've been bending a ton of pipe the past few years and I've bent maybe (2)3 pt saddles in that time. Had one just the other week. No way around it.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

brian john said:


> Get real, with proper training and a few stick mod men can be average pip installers, with practice they can improve their work. This ain't brain science or maybe you are hanging with the wrong crowd.


im not talking about the mechanics of bending the pipe. How to bend a 3 bend saddle, etc. You can teach a monkey to do that. Im talking about the entire installation. I agree its not overly complicated, but you can't teach people to not be retards. They kick when they should offset, offset when they should kick, not know where to drop supports from. People do stupid stuff. 

One thing that seems to be a common theme, (and im curious if people on here do the same thing) If you bend a 90 with a kick, everyone seems to measure the kick at the end of the pipe. This is fine if your bending a stub 90, but anything longer than that and it should be measured directly after the 90. It seems that even if there were 6 feet of pipe sticking out, after the 90, people would still just put their level on it and measure at the end of the pipe. Doing this and you are assuming that the ground is 100% dead nuts level and your level is 100% dead nuts perfect. A fraction of a degree will throw that measurement off by major amounts. This is why every time id ask somebody to bend a kick, it would come back and be way off. There were multiple people that i tried to show what i was talking about and they just look at me like this :blink:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

eagerbeaver said:


> My journeyman/foreman definitely plays mind games with me. I am a first year apprentice, so I realize there are many things I do not know yet, but I often get the impression that I am expected to know these things from my journeyman. He took me through a crash course on bending conduit (bending 90s, kicks, and offsets) and now seems to expect me to be an expert pipe bender. Now when I ask him questions about bending pipe, he looks at me like I'm idiot, and tells me "didn't I already teach you that", which makes me think my progress is unsatisfactory. Then the monthly review comes around and he has given me great reviews so far, so I think he is playing mind games with me and trying to make me more capable of doing things on my own without his guidance.


i used to lend my bendfield manual and bender to noobs, along with all the scrap pipe they want to take home for the weekend

perhaps you could try that yourself eagerone

i'll bet you come in monday morning with a trick or two down....

~CS~


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Jimmy...I don't do what your talking about. I measure at the end of the pipe. I sometimes put a level on the floor to see what I'm dealing with. What seems difficult about what I think your saying, and I'm open to learn something here, is getting an accurate measurment. For me it's easier to get an accurate 3" kick for example measuring at the end of the pipe. If I'm at 3 and I'm level and the floor is level I'm good. A 3/4 emt and prolly a 1" has a little play in it with a 90 there.

If I have 6' sticking out like you say and no one's around I have been setting my measuring tape at the end of the pipe. I remeasure my tape every time cause I can't recall but I think it's 3" long. So if I need a 5" kick on my 90 I pull 2" out of the tape (making it 5" long now) and bend my kick with the level down closer to me and the bender. When the end of the pipe gets to the top of the tape I'm damn close. I then hold it up to another piece of pipe or a doorframe or something to check if that's really needed. ie exposed.

Measuring right after the 90 like you say...Do you measure from the floor to the bottom of the pipe right there or what?


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

I get the same answer from everyone. Yes, you can READ THE TAPE more accuratly at the end, but i guarantee that your actual measuremant is more accurate measuring at right after the 90. Get down on your knees put your tape on the back side of the pipe. Bend down a little to where you can read it. I can read it accurately down to 1/16th. I bet you aren't holding your pipe parallel to the ground within 1/4" if your 5 feet out there.



i added a picture. The two measurements are 7/16 different, Which one would you go with? The one at the end of the pipe? Just because you can measure down to a 32nd?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

jimmy21 said:


> I get the same answer from everyone. Yes, you can READ THE TAPE more accuratly at the end, but i guarantee that your actual measuremant is more accurate measuring at right after the 90. Get down on your knees put your tape on the back side of the pipe. Bend down a little to where you can read it. I can read it accurately down to 1/16th. I bet you aren't holding your pipe parallel to the ground within 1/4" if your 5 feet out there.


You know how many lights, receptacles, and equipment work with imperfect kicks? Way more than ones with perfect kicks.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

Frasbee said:


> You know how many lights, receptacles, and equipment work with imperfect kicks? Way more than ones with perfect kicks.


youve got that right. I thought we were talking about good, efficient pipe bending here. Not crooked stuff that takes forever to put in because they spend forever trying to make it work. I guess in that case, ya, anyone can learn to bend pipe................

Anyway, do you know how bad i want to punch somebody when i crawl up in to some f'd up spot, wedged in between a duct and a sprinkler pipe and the pipe, that a 20 year journeyman hands me, doesn't fit because he can't accurately measure it?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I read after the bend. That's the way I learned. 
The guy that taught me the most retired 20 years ago. 
As soon as he would get a new wooden ruler, he whacked off the first 5". He eye balled 90% of what he bent. Show pipe he was anal about, hidden stuff didn't mater. 

I still use a wooden ruler, I have a tape in my bag, but rarely need it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> I read after the bend. That's the way I learned.
> The guy that taught me the most retired 20 years ago.
> As soon as he would get a new wooden ruler, he whacked off the first 5". He eye balled 90% of what he bent. Show pipe he was anal about, hidden stuff didn't mater.
> 
> I still use a wooden ruler, I have a tape in my bag, but rarely need it.


I do not bend pipe anymore but I did a slew of schools all RMC and EMT and got good at eyeballing and show work. I always used a wooden ruler as well. Today due to the large amount go gear work I have a plastic ruler.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

jimmy21 said:


> im not talking about the mechanics of bending the pipe. How to bend a 3 bend saddle, etc. You can teach a monkey to do that. Im talking about the entire installation. I agree its not overly complicated, but you can't teach people to not be retards. They kick when they should offset, offset when they should kick, not know where to drop supports from. People do stupid stuff.
> 
> One thing that seems to be a common theme, (and im curious if people on here do the same thing) If you bend a 90 with a kick, everyone seems to measure the kick at the end of the pipe. This is fine if your bending a stub 90, but anything longer than that and it should be measured directly after the 90. It seems that even if there were 6 feet of pipe sticking out, after the 90, people would still just put their level on it and measure at the end of the pipe. Doing this and you are assuming that the ground is 100% dead nuts level and your level is 100% dead nuts perfect. A fraction of a degree will throw that measurement off by major amounts. This is why every time id ask somebody to bend a kick, it would come back and be way off. There were multiple people that i tried to show what i was talking about and they just look at me like this :blink:


I almost spit out my coffee. 
I am out of a pipe and wire jurisdiction.
I bend it and hang it. I don't need to measure a kick, offset or a saddle after I bend it. I do this for a living.
I think I would fire an OCD guy who does such a thing.

Just be careful bending the last stick of pipe on the job, those kind of mistakes cost big money.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

jimmy21 said:


> youve got that right. I thought we were talking about good, efficient pipe bending here. Not crooked stuff that takes forever to put in because they spend forever trying to make it work. I guess in that case, ya, anyone can learn to bend pipe................
> 
> Anyway, do you know how bad i want to punch somebody when i crawl up in to some f'd up spot, wedged in between a duct and a sprinkler pipe and the pipe, that a 20 year journeyman hands me, doesn't fit because he can't accurately measure it?


You need to get out more dude. You take this stuff way too seriously.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

So you are on the floor with your eyeballs about 3" off the floor so that you can have a straight visual underneath the 3" kick? So it can be perfect and you can hang it up above the duct and sprinklers? Just asking...

I've never had a problem whatsoever with the way I do it. Funny I remember getting corrected by my mentor for measuring right there after the 90. You got a lot going on there with the level on top of the pipe. The bender still on the pipe and you holding the bender. Then your head is 3" off the floor and you gotta read the level, hold the tape, hold the bender, read the tape, read the level all at the same time.

You don't by any chance have a hard time getting guys to work with you do you? Consider yourself lucky. We don't get no mechanics down on the ground bending our pipe for us. We gotta do it all...most of the time.

All to the good Jimmy. If you can learn me something I'm all for it. I think I'll stick to my method for now.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

cultch said:


> So you are on the floor with your eyeballs about 3" off the floor so that you can have a straight visual underneath the 3" kick? So it can be perfect and you can hang it up above the duct and sprinklers? Just asking...


 it probably sounds more awkward than it is. It doesn't take any longer to measure at one spot than another.





cultch said:


> I've never had a problem whatsoever with the way I do it. Funny I remember getting corrected by my mentor for measuring right there after the 90. You got a lot going on there with the level on top of the pipe. The bender still on the pipe and you holding the bender. Then your head is 3" off the floor and you gotta read the level, hold the tape, hold the bender, read the tape, read the level all at the same time.


 like i said, it sounds more awkward than it is. I find it to be faster and more accurate. When bending with a hand bender, i just hunch a little, i don't like get on my hands and knees. Just give it a quick glance. At that point its within 1/4". Good enough for most stuff. If its something that is super crucial to have it accurate, then i will set the bender down and get down and measure and tweak it. I find it more awkward to do it the way you do it.




cultch said:


> You don't by any chance have a hard time getting guys to work with you do you? Consider yourself lucky. We don't get no mechanics down on the ground bending our pipe for us. We gotta do it all...most of the time.


 Around here people don't normally work alone. Everyone gets tooled up with a partner. I don't have any problem working with people. I know i come off as an arrogant control freak on here, but im actually quite the opposite. Im a very quiet person. If i think someone is doing something a dumb way, i will usually just roll my eyes and let them do it their way. I don't go around correcting people unless we are talking about it. I actually wish i was more arrogant. I find that the arrogant guys, that always talk themselves up all day long. The foreman usually think are just studs and 90% of the time those guys aren't worth a ****. I find this to be very true


HARRY304E said:


> I worked as a foreman for many years and dealt with many back stabbers every time someone would come to me and say SO and SO is slow and a poor worker ,So I would check it out for my self I would find a few projects and put in a little more attention on the snitch and the accused without either one knowing what was going on and what I found was the snitch was the real slacker almost always.








jrannis said:


> I almost spit out my coffee.
> I am out of a pipe and wire jurisdiction.
> I bend it and hang it. I don't need to measure a kick, offset or a saddle after I bend it. I do this for a living.
> I think I would fire an OCD guy who does such a thing.


I think we must be talking about two different types of jobs here. You must be talking about stuff inside walls, above tbar ceilings, underground, etc. Im talking about exposed racks of conduit. I probably installed around 15,000 feet of conduit in the last 6 months. 90% of which is exposed to anyone that walks by. Some of it had 30 pipes all offsetting together, all 90 together, etc. If it didn't look good, you weren't going to last very long on the job. 
We are far beyond my original point. My original point was people do stupid things


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

brian john said:


> I do not bend pipe anymore but I did a slew of schools all RMC and EMT and got good at eyeballing and show work. I always used a wooden ruler as well. Today due to the large amount go gear work I have a plastic ruler.


A plastic folding ruler? Is it an inside ruler?
I gotta find one of them. I'm the only one left here that still uses one.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Wirenuting said:


> I read after the bend. That's the way I learned.
> The guy that taught me the most retired 20 years ago.
> As soon as he would get a new wooden ruler, he whacked off the first 5". He eye balled 90% of what he bent. Show pipe he was anal about, hidden stuff didn't mater.
> 
> I still use a wooden ruler, I have a tape in my bag, but rarely need it.


Why did he cut off the first 5"?



95% of the pipe I've been running the last 3 months has been exposed so it has to look pretty, so all the bends have to be accurate. Especially when you have QA/QC and 2 or 3 other electrical contractors judging it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

You design piperuns to ease wire pulling. In line thru runs, I often push my snake from the end box all the way to the panel and pull every conductor thru and then pull loops at boxes and others back.

No clue pipe runners not only run with no clue where they constantly need to saddle over their own work, pulling wire box to box because they enter and exit side to side.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

freeagnt54 said:


> Why did he cut off the first 5"?
> 
> 95% of the pipe I've been running the last 3 months has been exposed so it has to look pretty, so all the bends have to be accurate. Especially when you have QA/QC and 2 or 3 other electrical contractors judging it.


It's the take up for 1/2".
After 40 years it's how he did it. And he had an eye for pipe.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

jrannis said:


> I almost spit out my coffee.
> I am out of a pipe and wire jurisdiction.
> I bend it and hang it. I don't need to measure a kick, offset or a saddle after I bend it. I do this for a living.
> *I think I would fire an OCD guy who does such a thing.
> ...


...most job specs call for conduit runs to be perpendicular to the building, and installed in a neat and workmanlike manner. My names on it, I try to do my best and make it look great so contractor develops a reputation as a contractor that does great work. The more jobs contractor gets, the longer I work, win win!


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> You design piperuns to ease wire pulling. In line thru runs, I often push my snake from the end box all the way to the panel and pull every conductor thru and then pull loops at boxes and others back.
> 
> *No clue pipe runners not only run with no clue where they constantly need to saddle over their own work, pulling wire box to box because they enter and exit side to side.*


*

*


....change of direction, change in elevation. Meaning east to west at on height, north to south at different height. One of first things that someone who is 'one with the conduit' :shuriken: teaches an apprentice.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

henderson14 said:


> Will foremen lie to you about what another foremen, GF, or super said about your performance to get you to work faster? I ask because it seems like it has been happening to me with the company I work for.


Yes. Sadly, some folks believe in being dishonest - believe that doing 'whatever it takes' to get something done can include lying, stealing, cheating and being unkind. This is not solely in the realm of electrical foremen, all walks of humanity have those with this failing.

If you show up ready to work, every day, on time, sober and put in a good effort you have done as well as anyone can expect.

On a side note to the pipe bending discussion in this thread. Good pipe bending is a skill that can be learned and should be practiced regardless if it is in view. I am a very good pipe bender and I find it difficult to put up not good pipe behind a wall.

On the other hand, great pipe bending is a gift, a gift only the rare few have, so when you meet those folks watch and learn and be a bit envious like the rest of us.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

jimmy21 said:


> This is why every time id ask somebody to bend a kick, it would come back and be way off. There were multiple people that i tried to show what i was talking about and they just look at me like this :blink:


Perhaps, and this is only a perhaps mind you, if everyone bends the kicks you ask for wrong, then there might something on the initial measuring that is off.

I recall working with a fellow who measured to the center of the pipe for things and we were always off ( since I was measuring to the top of the pipe on a kick for example ). What was funny is we both - without telling the other, switched to the others measuring method and we were still off.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

eejack said:


> Perhaps, and this is only a perhaps mind you, if everyone bends the kicks you ask for wrong, then there might something on the initial measuring that is off.
> 
> I recall working with a fellow who measured to the center of the pipe for things and we were always off ( since I was measuring to the top of the pipe on a kick for example ). What was funny is we both - without telling the other, switched to the others measuring method and we were still off.


No, not the case.... I worked with a guy one time that would measure to the top of the pipe. He said it was easier to see his tape:blink: You could have told me that before I bent the pipe.


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