# Parking lot lights wiring.



## CNC (Dec 20, 2008)

Today's project: 
Parking lot lighting, several fixtures aren't working. After inspection they have melted wiring inside the ballast compartment.

They are 277v, 400w metal halide, mounted on wood, center bored poles.

Now, they are wired from a pull box at the bottom, with solid 12 thhn, all the way to the top, where from the top, splice into the fixtures, that have a 18-3, SEOW whip, that is wired into the ballast compartment, through the pole, and spliced in the top to the thhn supply wires. 

Where the SEOW sheathing is stripped back, the insulation is melted, and exposing copper. And some are just broken from being melted. Several fixtures have this issue. the SEOW, looks factory installed to me.

Is this code for a permanent install? Or should THHN be fed from the top of the pole, into the fixture? 

Why are they melting? They are rated for 105 C, and the fixture is stamped with "MINIMAL 90 C SUPPLY WIRES."

The current is only 1.8a @ 277v. 

Ballast getting to hot? They are RUDD fixtures. The ambient temp isn't very high in this area of CA. 

How would you make the repair, so it doesn't happen again? 

I'm changing the ballast kits when making the repair, the oil filled capacitors have failed in the ones I have tested.


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## CNC (Dec 20, 2008)

Here are some pics.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

CNC said:


> .............How would you make the repair, so it doesn't happen again? ........


Use Sealtight w/ THWN.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

I forget what the wire designation is (roll is on the truck), but I have wire that is rated 150 C. I had a similar problem, and this worked fine.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Use Sealtight w/ THWN.


Don't even need Sealtight, just some 90 C conductors.


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## CNC (Dec 20, 2008)

This is what I did. 

And silicone sealed all the mounting seams. 
I'd like to retrofit these goofy poles.

With SEOW cable, when the sheathing is stripped back, does this have the same temperature properties? It should right? That is the insulation failing.


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## CNC (Dec 20, 2008)

What the majority of these fixture look like inside.

They do have a braided hi temp sheath over the conductors after being stripped, but they still cook.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

The SO is factory. I've seen a zilion of them but never one that was melted. Maybe someone at the factory got heavy handed with stripping the SO and scliced into the conductors??

The fixtures look newish. Send the pics to Ruud, maybe they will hook you up somehow.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

CNC said:


> What the majority of these fixture look like inside.
> 
> They do have a braided hi temp sheath over the conductors after being stripped, but they still cook.


I've found that sheath can actually help cook the conductor in some cases.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Don't even need Sealtight, just some 90 C conductors.


Bob, are you saying that the conductors can be without a raceway inside a wood pole?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Bob, are you saying that the conductors can be without a raceway inside a wood pole?


Yes just like a metal pole if the same conditions are meet.



> 410.30 Supports.
> 
> (B) Metal or Nonmetallic Poles Supporting Luminaires.
> Metal or nonmetallic poles shall be permitted to be used to
> ...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I've found that sheath can actually help cook the conductor in some cases.


For the lamp socket leads that make good sense as much that heat is being conducted from the filament / electrode directly through the metal conductor not the air.


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## CNC (Dec 20, 2008)

220/221 said:


> The SO is factory. I've seen a zilion of them but never one that was melted. Maybe someone at the factory got heavy handed with stripping the SO and scliced into the conductors??
> 
> The fixtures look newish. Send the pics to Ruud, maybe they will hook you up somehow.


Its factory, there are probably 27 poles on this property, (I think close to seven, i have confirmed failed this way) 
If factory, how do they strip them? By hand? If they stripped them, and scored the wire, could it It could be moisture, creating corrosion, creating resistance, explaining the obvious heat damage? 
I tested the capacitors on the two I pulled down.... They were bad. What if the capacitors failed, and didn't regulate the current, causing the 18 awg wire to overheat?
I just want a good explanation to why I have to re-wire each one..... Thanks for the input guys.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

My WAG take on this is that you're right, cap failure causing excessive current draw which is overloading the SEOW cable. 

As 220/221 suggested, send the pics to RUDD and get their take on the problem. If you happened to save any of the damaged wire they may want you to send that to them. 

Electrical forensics is one of my fav hobbies. :thumbup:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Don't quote moi wrong on this one but did some of the RUDD luminaires did mention that you need to use 105°C rated conductor ??

I know with my luminaire I have in the shop it did mention 105°C rated conductors. { RUDD luminaires }

And for myself I will not use the 18 AWG cord as you mention in the photo.

Did you ever actally check the current drawage on the luminaire to make sure they are not really drawing too much current and with CWA ballast if the capaitor is shorted it will make the light dim and open capaitors the light will stay off even thru the ballast is getting power.

If other type of ballast it will really affect the current drawage and they should draw about 1.6 to 1.8 amp the most @ 277 volts 


How long was this " new " luminaire was installed ??

Merci.
Marc


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## CNC (Dec 20, 2008)

The poles I fixed were off, and already melted the wires. 
I did not get current readings. I am going back out today, to get a game plan on the rest, so I can get approval to repair them. 
I see alot of fixtures, with factory install SO or SO Type cable installed. HID flood lights, that pivot, often have pre wired whips, if it were my install, I would try to avoid something like that, it seems exposed to the sunlight, like it's just a matter of time, right? 

I'm just saying it's the wrong type of wiring if the rest check out the same. ( if all readings are within spec) 

What do you think? 

Time wise, what would you say it would take you to: 
Remove both fixture heads, install new ballast kit and lamp, remove existing wires from pole top, and install new THHN, re-mount, and makeup. All from a nice bucket truck. 
Just to compare with my thoughts.


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## netgeek723 (Feb 6, 2011)

I have a hard time believing the SO is factory installed based on how these heads are mounted. Unless that was a selected option at time of order? Normally these heads would be mounted to a steel pole where THHN would be brought right into the fixture, a minimum of #12 and probably larger based on VD and distance. The use hi temp wire for the ballast and cap leads so wouldn't they use high temp wire coming out of the fixture as well?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

netgeek723 said:


> I have a hard time believing the SO is factory installed based on how these heads are mounted. Unless that was a selected option at time of order? Normally these heads would be mounted to a steel pole where THHN would be brought right into the fixture, a minimum of #12 and probably larger based on VD and distance. The use hi temp wire for the ballast and cap leads so wouldn't they use high temp wire coming out of the fixture as well?


I have seen many pole fixtures wired with 16-3 or 14-3 SO or similar.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

...............


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> I have a hard time believing the SO is factory installed


I have a hard time believing you brought up an old post just to say that 

Google Ruud Lighting and see for yourself.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Where is the bulb located in reference to the wires? That bulb gets damn hot.
I had some pole lights that the wires were melted. it turned out that the installers did not bother to make sure the conductors behind the reflector plate were not were the 400 watt MH bulb was.
In other words the only thing keeping the wires away from the bulb was that reflector plate. I arranged the wires to be as far as possible from there and all was well from then on.
I've seen the same thing on wall packs as well.


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## Wiredude (May 14, 2010)

Just a thought but was the origional cord perhaps SJ not SJO or SO? I believe SJ is only rated for 60C.


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