# Fluorescent to LED retrofit question



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I have a basement with (4) 4' T12 fixtures that I want to upgrade to LED. These are 4 lamp fixtures. The basement isn't that big, probably 500sqft. 

Should I only replace 2 lamps per fixture? I am thinking the LEDs will be plenty bright enough.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I have a basement with (4) 4' T12 fixtures that I want to upgrade to LED. These are 4 lamp fixtures. The basement isn't that big, probably 500sqft.
> 
> Should I only replace 2 lamps per fixture? I am thinking the LEDs will be plenty bright enough.


Just go with 2 lamp LED line voltage tubes that will pretty much match with old school 4 lamper due majorty of resdentail flourscent ballast are low power factor so they are not super bright as commercal side is.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Dumpster the fixtures and put 40w edge lit led drop ins in.:thumbsup: I'm sure the lenses on any T12 fixture are cracked and yellow and the sockets are half broken.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The retrofit LED's are $12 per lamp, and that's what the customer asked for.

How many hundreds are those fixtures you mentioned? And how do I get them here?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

What is the benefit to keeping the old fixtures?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> The retrofit LED's are $12 per lamp, and that's what the customer asked for.
> 
> How many hundreds are those fixtures you mentioned? And how do I get them here?


If that's what they asked for give it to them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> What is the benefit to keeping the old fixtures?


Cost, both material and labor.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Cost, both material and labor.


Is swapping a fixture that much more time than rewiring the tombstones?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Is swapping a fixture that much more time than rewiring the tombstones?


Yes, far more time and labor getting it out of the ceiling. That alone could be a fight since you know how they like to install the drop ceilings in basements as close to the joists as possible. Unsplicing each fixture. Decades worth of dust and mouse crap on top that needs to be cleaned, fixtures carried up and out and loaded on truck, then deposed of. Then you gotta install and rewire new fixture.

For the LED lamps, rewiring the ballast is optional. Cut the wires at the ballast, strip them, splice with levernuts. Takes a few minutes to figure out the first one and a minute each on all the rest.


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## FWLED (Mar 14, 2017)

Then you could buy double ended type B LED tube for the retrofitting, saving both time, and cost, and also remove the ballast.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

FWLED said:


> Then you could buy double ended type B LED tube for the retrofitting, saving both time, and cost, and also remove the ballast.


THese are what I have used in the past, are they what you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Hyperikon-Du...80/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Will 2 be enough or should I replace all 4?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I did a big office retrofit with the LED tubes in December. It started off slow but it picked up when I quit removing the old ballasts. Just cut the wires and wire the tombstones to power.

I got it down to 5 minutes per.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> I did a big office retrofit with the LED tubes in December. It started off slow but it picked up when I quit removing the old ballasts. Just cut the wires and wire the tombstones to power.
> 
> I got it down to 5 minutes per.


Did you label the fixtures line voltage?


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## FWLED (Mar 14, 2017)

HackWork said:


> THese are what I have used in the past, are they what you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Hyperikon-Du...80/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Will 2 be enough or should I replace all 4?


I think the link you sent is TypeA ballast compatible with AC function LED tube, if not, it could be single ended TypeB LED tube, because as far as I know, there is no one in the world now could pass the UL with Type B double ended power supply standard though there's someone add a switch on the tube to pass the UL, but this switch is easily to cause problem because it is mechanical. However, there is really one who designed real Type B double ended LED tube with patent and ETL this year. We replace our LED panel light(I remember they are about 40W or so) by 1 piece of 18W whole nano plastic LED tube, and it is really bright and brighter than the panel light. Hope my answer could be of help!


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> THese are what I have used in the past, are they what you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Hyperikon-Du...80/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Will 2 be enough or should I replace all 4?


Well they have a similar Lumen output (2200) as a 34 watt T12 (2600). LEDs they do point down whereas the T12 blows light all over and relies on the can to push some light down.

So you have to try it as replacing 2 will give you 1/2 or less Lumen output as you have now.

5000K might be a bit harsh for a resi unit. Will look bright tho.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

FWLED said:


> I think the link you sent is TypeA ballast compatible with AC function LED tube, if not, it could be single ended TypeB LED tube, because as far as I know, there is no one in the world now could pass the UL with Type B double ended power supply standard though there's someone add a switch on the tube to pass the UL, but this switch is easily to cause problem because it is mechanical. However, there is really one who designed real Type B double ended LED tube with patent and ETL this year. We replace our LED panel light(I remember they are about 40W or so) by 1 piece of 18W whole nano plastic LED tube, and it is really bright and brighter than the panel light. Hope my answer could be of help!


No, I am more confused now.


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## FWLED (Mar 14, 2017)

HackWork said:


> No, I am more confused now.


:sad::sad:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Did you label the fixtures line voltage?


You bet. Had a big sheet of stickers for it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

daveEM said:


> Well they have a similar Lumen output (2200) as a 34 watt T12 (2600). LEDs they do point down whereas the T12 blows light all over and relies on the can to push some light down.
> 
> So you have to try it as replacing 2 will give you 1/2 or less Lumen output as you have now.
> 
> 5000K might be a bit harsh for a resi unit. Will look bright tho.


So I'll order 4 new LED lamps for each, thanks.

It's a resi basement so I will go with 3000K.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Do you have access to these door replacement retrofit kits?
They look really nice:

https://assets2.sylvania.com/media/img/osram-dam-1361644

Retrofit Door Kits
The Retrofit Door Kits are easy to install with a single piece “door frame” and improve vertical illuminance while minimizing glare. Offering up to 44% in energy savings, these retrofit kits are ideal for retrofitting fluorescent lens troffer luminaires, and offered in two sizes for illuminating educational, office, retail or hospitality areas.
​

​ Product Features: 
Offered in 35W, 42W
Up to 111 LPW
Input Voltage: UNV (120-277V)
Control ready with 0-10V dimming (down to 10%) for increased energy savings
Retrofit into existing fluorescent fixtures
Emergency Back up option
Fast and easy installation using a single piece construction
cETLus, FCC, RoHS, DLC (DLC pending on emergency version)


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

You would be doing them a favor by talking them into those cree zr fixtures I keep talking about. It would cost them less than $300 more but the job would be way more professional. 
I am just not a fan of those retrofit tubes. They are going to be trouble down the road. I can feel it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> You would be doing them a favor by talking them into those cree zr fixtures I keep talking about. It would cost them less than $300 more but the job would be way more professional.


 How do you figure less than $300 more?



> I am just not a fan of those retrofit tubes. They are going to be trouble down the road. I can feel it.


You can say that about any LED, or CFL, and I'm sure they said that about incans.

If there is trouble, they will pay me to fix it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> You bet. Had a big sheet of stickers for it.


:thumbsup:

I've been waiting for a thread where they weren't labeled to hear what happened.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> I've been waiting for a thread where they weren't labeled to hear what happened.


Exactly, You have 15 amps going to this end that was designed for a T12. The next guy isn't going to like that led for some reason and stick a T8 in there. The average homeowner doesn't know enough to read that labeling. It is not that much more expensive to do it right.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Exactly, You have 15 amps going to this end that was designed for a T12. The next guy isn't going to like that led for some reason and stick a T8 in there. The average homeowner doesn't know enough to read that labeling. It is not that much more expensive to do it right.


The whole fiasco would be great to have on video just to see the results.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Sorry gentlemen but I don't subscribe to the theory that we are supposed to install things so that novices can handle them. Just like the way I don't like ballast disconnects, handle ties on multiwire branch circuits, and all of the other dumbing down of the trade.

Any real electrician should check the voltage and the wiring before touching a light fixture that clearly has an LED upgrade installed it.

If they get shocked, too bad. Pain is how stupid people learn.


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