# Sub-Panel Allowable Locations



## DECINC-JLarge (Mar 27, 2012)

Hello,

Im an electrical contractor out of Southern California, we are wiring a new 6000 sq ft custom home. Sub panel locations are limited, to me sub panels in certain locations has always been questionable. 

Are sub panels allowed to be installed in a walk in closet given it has all the clearances required. Thats one possible option, but even we are limited on stud and beam locations in the walk in closets. So with that being said, am I able to install a sub panel into an entrance to a large bathroom behind a door, still has all the required clearances, but seems somewhat unsafe in case someone is walking through door while electrician is working on it... 

Point is, I am very limited on space and would like to know where all the allowable locations of a sub panel, obviously laundry rooms work, just not sure about bedrooms and other places, like under stairs etc as long as they have easy access.

Thanks for your guys feedback in advance


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## brichter (Oct 26, 2009)

Behind door in bedroom is fine. Clothes closets are off limits. Beneath stairs with headroom and other workspace requirements is ok. Baths are of limits for residential.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

6000 Sq feet and the architect doesn't have a dedicated space? What a moron, oh wait, that's actually normal, never mind.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Finding places for panels can be difficult -- I try and get the owners to okay where they can go and I usually try and put them in a hall area where a picture can be placed over it. I also use the laundry area basements etc. Most people don't want a panel in their bedrooms but it is compliant. Closets are a no-no although some areas will allow it if the clearances are met and there isn't a clothes rod nearby.

A few of the code making panel members seem to think behind a closet door would be fine as long as the clothing is not near it.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I'm suprised that a 6000 sf home doesn't have some kind of arch/designer involved to which you could pose the question (and lay the blame)


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I'm suprised that a 6000 sf home doesn't have some kind of arch/designer involved to which you could pose the question (and lay the blame)


I find the bigger homes tend to be more open and thus less places for panels. I am doing a 12,000 sq.ft one now and we have one sub panel. It sucks


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I find the bigger homes tend to be more open and thus less places for panels. I am doing a 12,000 sq.ft one now and we have one sub panel. It sucks


I feel your pain. my only point was that your price (I assume you gave them a price) would have been based on a reasonable layout, and a condition in the job later which required a remote location for a panel and a bunch of extra cable/wire *might* be either
1) a reasonable change order and/or 
2) a reasonable RFI to the designer to provide a location (whereby the designer can take all the associated blame with the client for stupid location, lack of planning for any mechanical/electrical provisions, or whatever)


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I find the bigger homes tend to be more open and thus less places for panels. I am doing a 12,000 sq.ft one now and we have one sub panel. It sucks


what size service are you doing on that one Dennis?

I was going to partner up with my bro in law on one that is 12k sq ft. There were 3 of us that came in at the same numbers on the bid and a 4th EC was over $40k cheaper. 

Go for it bro. lol


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## DECINC-JLarge (Mar 27, 2012)

The sub panel price was determined to be a "worse case scenario" Its a wide open floor plan and yes there is limited wall space. The designer/general contractor is even having hard time deciding where to put it... When we originally bid job, it had 400 amp panel and no sub, so naturally we added into bid. So he was not prepared for it

John L.
DirectElectricCo.com


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I find the bigger homes tend to be more open and thus less places for panels. I am doing a 12,000 sq.ft one now and we have one sub panel. It sucks


what's the ballpark price on those size houses?
what's the crew size and time factors of finish that kind of house?

there's some houses going up that size in my area, who is it worth the headache ?


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## DECINC-JLarge (Mar 27, 2012)

Lep said:


> what's the ballpark price on those size houses?
> what's the crew size and time factors of finish that kind of house?
> 
> there's some houses going up that size in my area, who is it worth the headache ?


For the 6000 square foot house, its only about $40k - 2 men about 8 days, not pushing too hard, easy going. Rough in only

But last year we did a 8000 square foot addition to a already 4000 square foot house and costed him around $130k, this also included a 2000 square foot pool house about 200 feet from main panel and we used a 600 amp panel... but a ton of detail... took 2 years.

It really depends on how in depth the home is


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## mdnitedrftr (Aug 21, 2013)

sarness said:


> 6000 Sq feet and the architect doesn't have a dedicated space? What a moron, oh wait, that's actually normal, never mind.


:laughing:

I wish it wasnt true....


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The house in question that I am doing is 12,000 sq. ft. I originally gave them a guestimate - no plans- of about $60,000 and $20,000 for lighting. Then I saw the plans and the info started coming in. The lighting alone, minus chandeliers , outdoor and bath lights was $250,000. That is with tax, freight and a 10% markup. Unbelieveable. At this point the job will cost about $350,000-$400,000 -- my best guess. Fortunately it is T&M for me. 

Concrete slab in basement and 1st floor with over 30 concrete floor outlets. We are not talking the standard outlets but the ones that have the covers fit inside the box so the boxes must be set perfectly.

This is the box--


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The house in question that I am doing is 12,000 sq. ft. I originally gave them a guestimate - no plans- of about $60,000 and $20,000 for lighting. Then I saw the plans and the info started coming in. The lighting alone, minus chandeliers , outdoor and bath lights was $250,000. That is with tax, freight and a 10% markup. Unbelieveable. At this point the job will cost about $350,000-$400,000 -- my best guess. Fortunately it is T&M for me.
> 
> Concrete slab in basement and 1st floor with over 30 concrete floor outlets. We are not talking the standard outlets but the ones that have the covers fit inside the box so the boxes must be set perfectly.
> 
> This is the box--



I actually like those boxes. (don't worry, you can jackhammer around them to get em right if you don't succeed the 1st time. don't ask me how I know this.)


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Lep said:


> what's the ballpark price on those size houses?
> what's the crew size and time factors of finish that kind of house?
> 
> there's some houses going up that size in my area, who is it worth the headache ?



There is no time frame as the house has been dragging on for over a year and we haven't roughed it in yet. I got 2 guys and we may be able to handle it if it continues at the pace it is going.

Plans are for a 600 amp service but I don't think we need it as everything is led and the heating is geothermal. It will be a very tight house. 

I believe we will be using radio ra2 and there are other things I don't even know about yet. Baths have lighted mirror, and lighted vanities. The mirrors have an option of defoggers and nightlights. It goes on and on


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I actually like those boxes. (don't worry, you can jackhammer around them to get em right if you don't succeed the 1st time. don't ask me how I know this.)



The finish concrete will be architectural and you cannot jack hammer it. There is a slight adjustment in the boxes. The boxes were $90 each- my cost


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I find the bigger homes tend to be more open and thus less places for panels. I am doing a 12,000 sq.ft one now and we have one sub panel. It sucks




Dennis , I encourage them to plan a Picture / what ever / opening wall panel , on a hall wall ect. that will make the Panel invisible . Do not let who ever made the prints run with it . I always redesign the big ones , if no one has the for sight and is not apparent . I see that Quite a lot with the Big houses and remodels . Better to get it right from the start .



Pete


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

DECINC-JLarge said:


> Hello,
> 
> Im an electrical contractor out of Southern California, we are wiring a new 6000 sq ft custom home. Sub panel locations are limited, to me sub panels in certain locations has always been questionable.
> 
> ...




Custom Homes they just do not want the panels invisible . I find that if you give them a solution , they will go for the Sub Panel . The best areas is always a hall . 
So give them a way to hide it . 



Pete


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