# Driving a Ground Rod at a generator,Should you?



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

We just went thru this in a code seminar, and I forget what the panel's take on it was. I believe that if it is a SDS, then yes.

It might be in the IAEI's Analysis Of Changes book which I did not purchase.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Deep Cover said:


> We just went thru this in a code seminar, and I forget what the panel's take on it was. I believe that if it is a SDS, then yes.
> 
> It might be in the IAEI's Analysis Of Changes book which I did not purchase.


I will provide the answer later in this thread.:laughing:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

NO, per the following

I follow all rules per 1926.404(f)(3)(i)(b) and 

(A) Portable Generators. The frame of a portable generator
shall not be required to be connected to a grounding
electrode as defined in 250.52 for a system supplied by the
generator under the following conditions:
(1) The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the
generator, cord-and-plug-connected equipment through
receptacles mounted on the generator, or both, and
(2) The normally non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment
and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of
the receptacles are connected to the generator frame.


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

I think he needs more tools in his pouch.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Cletis said:


> NO, per the following
> 
> I follow all rules per 1926.404(f)(3)(i)(b) and
> 
> ...


Good, But this is about permanently installed Generators.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Depends on whether your transfer switch also switches the neutral


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Just after 5 minutes this video tells you to drive a ground rod and connect it to the lug on the generator ..


No it doesn't, it says the same thing Generac says in their instructions, "As specified by local regulations (code, etc.)".

No ground rod is required by code unless it's an SDS.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I voted no but if you did it is fine also. Can't really hurt much.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> I voted no but if you did it is fine also. Can't really hurt much.


Yes it can.:whistling2:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes it can.:whistling2:


Really? I wouldn't do it anyway but I never thought supplemental ground ever hurt. The older I get the dumber I get.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

If you don't drive a ground rod.. be smart and take off the lug.. 

It will eliminate everyone asking why you forgot to "ground" the unit...


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Really? I wouldn't do it anyway but I never thought supplemental ground ever hurt. The older I get the dumber I get.


The extra $8 bucks is going to hurt his wallet


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

bkmichael65 said:


> The extra $8 bucks is going to hurt his wallet


Yes it could in a case of lightning strike close by....:whistling2:


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## MWayne (Nov 8, 2010)

On my first generator install the Kohler rep refused to start commissioning it until I agreed to make a run and get/install a ground rod. The guy was mostly a diesel mechanic and didn't know why one should be installed other than "the boss insists on it". Since then I always put one in no matter what kind of neutral connection.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> I will provide the answer later in this thread.:laughing:


Harry, are you going to post Mike Holt's thing on lightning at the end of the thread like it's a gameshow and that's the big surprise?? :laughing:

In the end, of the generator requires it, or if it's an SDS and the NEC requires it, or if the local amendments require it, then it's required no matter if it's dangerous or not.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

When does a standby generator become a separately derived system?


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Goldagain said:


> When does a standby generator become a separately derived system?


When the neutral is switched in the transfer switch.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

DIYer4Life said:


> When the neutral is switched in the transfer switch.


Right, but isn't the neutral switched because its separately derived?

What situation requires you to make it separately derived and cause you to switch the neutral and connect the generator to the GEC?

Real question, I'm not being cryptic.

edit 
I should have asked;
Isn't the neutral switched to make it separately derived?


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> Right, but isn't the neutral switched because its separately derived? What situation requires you to make it separately derived and cause you to switch the neutral and connect the generator to the GEC? Real question, I'm not being cryptic.


Hospital emergency systems have switched neutrals and places with sensitive electronics


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Goldagain said:


> Right, but isn't the neutral switched because its separately derived?
> 
> What situation requires you to make it separately derived and cause you to switch the neutral and connect the generator to the GEC?
> 
> ...


I can't see the reasoning for resi other than local code.

One of the guys here who does a lot of generators (nrp3 or ceb maybe) lives in an area that requires switching neutrals on the transfers switches and also a disconnect on the inlet.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

DIYer4Life said:


> I can't see the reasoning for resi other than local code.
> 
> One of the guys here who does a lot of generators (nrp3 or ceb maybe) lives in an area that requires switching neutrals on the transfers switches and also a disconnect on the inlet.


The inlet is a disconnect.

I've asked this before I'm real curious when a system needs to be SDS and when its standby.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Goldagain said:


> The inlet is a disconnect.


 That's up to the AHJ. As I mentioned, some places want a disconnect on the inlet. Most manufacturers make inlets with the disconnect for that reason:











> I've asked this before I'm real curious when a system needs to be SDS and when its standby.


Again, I can't see any reason for a residence other than local code.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I have had inspectors OK the gas shutoff valve as a disconnect...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

DIYer4Life said:


> Harry, are you going to post Mike Holt's thing on lightning at the end of the thread like it's a gameshow and that's the big surprise?? :laughing:
> 
> In the end, of the generator requires it, or if it's an SDS and the NEC requires it, or if the local amendments require it, then it's required no matter if it's dangerous or not.


Why don't you post it!


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Why don't you post it.


It's your thread, I don't want to steal your sunshine :thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

DIYer4Life said:


> It's your thread, I don't want to steal your sunshine :thumbup:


He starts talking about Generators just before the 50 minute mark.

But everyone should take the time to watch the whole thing.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

I wonder how many ground rods have been driven on items that shouldn't have ground rods around the world ??? Millions ?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

I cant seem to watch him for more then 20 seconds without trying to gouge my eyes out.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Goldagain said:


> I cant seem to watch him for more then 20 seconds without trying to gouge my eyes out.



:laughing: 

Come on you can do it...:laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have had inspectors OK the gas shutoff valve as a disconnect...


Maybe they can't read?


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## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

Goldagain said:


> The inlet is a disconnect.
> 
> I've asked this before I'm real curious when a system needs to be SDS and when its standby.


One instance where you would want the generator to be a sds is if you have a high leg delta service and a y generator. At least that's the reason the engineer on one of my projects gave to me.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Goldagain said:


> The inlet is a disconnect.


It's not service rated.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

BBQ said:


> It's not service rated.


Good call.

I checked the inlets with the disconnects like I posted above and sure enough:

"UL listed and suitable for use as service equipment."


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes you must?
> 
> 
> No you must not?
> ...


I did not look at the video but I have to say that the purpose of a rod in the case of a stand alone generator would not be of any use that I can see. If the generator is a back up and is physically tied into the house system mechanically, it is a different story, IMO.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

BBQ said:


> It's not service rated.


Would it have to be if its not a SDS?


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

buddhakii said:


> One instance where you would want the generator to be a sds is if you have a high leg delta service and a y generator. At least that's the reason the engineer on one of my projects gave to me.


please explain not heard this before


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Goldagain said:


> Would it have to be if its not a SDS?


Yes, just like the disconnect for an automatic standby generator would have to be SUSE. As you know, we generally get away without that disconnect for either type of generator, but some areas specifically require them.


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