# Protect Apprenticeships



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Don't you see where this is going? If everybody outside the construction industry is "required" to go through an apprenticeship, guess what's next? Required certification. I warned of this years ago. Once the states figure out how lucrative requiring certification for employment is, EVERYBODY will have to participate. Gas station attendants, cashier's, auto mechanic's, box boy's, waitresses, landscapers, exterminators, painters, etc. Yesser, the states are going to clean up with this proposal. But, the IBEW will still have one of the best apprenticeship programs out there.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd have to see the language to really see how or if this is bad, furthermore who is backing this. The other thing is, how would this change state mandated education and apprenticeship hours?


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Bwtn 8-8:05pm cs tried accessing your ibew. Must be offline for maintenance.
Are You trying to protect Your 19th Century European style hiring practices? Nothing is "shoddier" than "Henry's boy" local-1 and "Czech man" local-2.
Here in Saint Louis, we all know this; You don't go to a ibew hiring hall... _You don't do that, that's not how business gets done_... Unless you already know the results before you get there... Why the continued denial? Is Saint Louis somehow unique?


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## The.eletrical.worker (Aug 13, 2019)

stiffneck said:


> Bwtn 8-8:05pm cs tried accessing your ibew. Must be offline for maintenance.
> Are You trying to protect Your 19th Century European style hiring practices? Nothing is "shoddier" than "Henry's boy" local-1 and "Czech man" local-2.
> Here in Saint Louis, we all know this; You don't go to a ibew hiring hall... _You don't do that, that's not how business gets done_... Unless you already know the results before you get there... Why the continued denial? Is Saint Louis somehow unique?


I actually have a cousin that recently got into local one . He had zero contacts just has a lot of good experience . He can do controlls pipe work , switch gear , very well
Rounded . 

He has nothing but good things to say about this local I guess their very busy right now said he is on a big hospital job bjc I’m wesg county .

I guess everyone’s experience is diff


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard @The.eletrical.worker!

Please take a minute and fill out your profile about me section so we know a little about who we are talking to.

I was hoping you really knew how to spell 'electrical'!


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## Fist of lightning (Aug 15, 2019)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The IBEW urgently needs your help to protect our training programs from a pending federal rule that would let businesses run shoddy apprenticeships with minimal standards, oversight and pay.
> 
> For now, the construction industry is excluded from the Department of Laborâ€™️s proposed Apprenticeship Rule. Public comments being submitted now will help determine whether the exemption stays or goes once a final rule is issued.
> 
> ...


Just went on the io website and filled it out thanks for keeping everyone posted and taking the time to post the link great wrk brotha .

They actually mentioned this at our last meeting let’s put an end to that bill . Thanks again


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Fist of lightning said:


> Just went on the io website and filled it out thanks for keeping everyone posted and taking the time to post the link great wrk brotha .
> 
> They actually mentioned this at our last meeting let’s put an end to that bill . Thanks again


Welcome anytime!


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I didn't go through the apprenticeship and from what I hear I'm not missing much.

Plus last time I asked the IO for help they gave me the cold shoulder. You'd think after NECA hosted Trump his administration would be more favorable to their interests. Useful idiots I guess.

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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

The point is that any company can come up with their own bulls41t apprenticeship program. From that they can say their guys are enrolled, now pay them squat on prevailing wage jobs.

Another fleecing of the blue collar worker. It’s not a Union/Non-Union thing. The Non-Union electrician has just as much to loose.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

HertzHound said:


> The point is that any company can come up with their own bulls41t apprenticeship program. From that they can say their guys are enrolled, now pay them squat on prevailing wage jobs.
> 
> Another fleecing of the blue collar worker. It’s not a Union/Non-Union thing. The Non-Union electrician has just as much to loose.



The non-union electrician has just as much to lose, but won't know a thing about it until the deed is done. The non-union electrician contractor has everything to gain - which is the driving force. In their world, a jobsite with 40 "apprentices" and 2 journeymen (or whatever they're calling the equivalent) is the goal.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Under the proposed rule, entities such as trade, industry, and employer groups or associations, educational institutions, state and local government entities, non-profit organizations, unions, or a consortium or partnership of these entities could become a Standards Recognition Entity (SRE) that sets standards for training, structure, and curricula for IRAPs in relevant industries or occupational areas.* The SREs would be recognized through the U.S. Department of Labor to ensure that its requirements are met, resulting in only high-quality IRAPs.* This is a similar relationship to the one that exists between the U.S. Department of Education and higher education accrediting bodies.

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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> In their world, a jobsite with 40 "apprentices" and 2 journeymen (or whatever they're calling the equivalent) is the goal.


We already have that here in Texas without IRAPS, I guess that's why I don't see what the big deal is.

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## Fist of lightning (Aug 15, 2019)

HertzHound said:


> The point is that any company can come up with their own bulls41t apprenticeship program. From that they can say their guys are enrolled, now pay them squat on prevailing wage jobs.
> 
> Another fleecing of the blue collar worker. Itâ€™️s not a Union/Non-Union thing. The Non-Union electrician has just as much to loose.


Yes absolutely and then they can underbid on all the state and federal 
Pw jobs , Bc now they don’t have to pay their men the pw with all the fridge benefits as well . And they won’t have to follow any ratio of men either .

Plus I’m shure their apprenticeship will not be the five years and as many hours . Etc seems like a taste to the bottom with just the contractor benefiting.


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## Incognito (Apr 14, 2019)

So this is from your federal government? 

Up here we have government legislated apprenticeship but it is not easy to become a registered training facility, most of the training facilities are at community colleges. All apprentices, union and non union go to the same trade school.


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## Fist of lightning (Aug 15, 2019)

TGGT said:


> LawnGuyLandSparky said:
> 
> 
> > In their world, a jobsite with 40 "apprentices" and 2 journeymen (or whatever they're calling the equivalent) is the goal.
> ...


And open shop underbids on a lot of jobs Bc of this .while closed shops have to follow a ratio .

If the nonunion apprenticeship program resulted in the men geting paid around the pw wage and getting the workers fringe benifts and five years of highly skilled training , and the contractors would have to follow the ratio of jw to apprentices . 

I would be all for it . It would level out the playing feild and bring up workers in general .

But in my opion it seems like a race to the bottom with just the non union contractor benifits .

Now can pay his men low wages , no fringe benies, no retirement, does not have to follow the ratio , and now he can low bid on pw jobs and dosnt have to pay the men jw on those jobs I don’t see 
How everyone will benefit except the openshop contractor 

I’ve seen it befor I worked for a shop
That only did pw he was openshop. 

He fcked us out of the pw didn’t pay us the correct wage for over a year or so until someone filled a complaint . He got a slap on the rist

So after he got a target on him how he got around having to pay his men the pw wage was he payed for them to go to an “ apprenticeship “ and as they were enrolled he now payed them the first year rate in that program , not shure if they got the benies or not . But it was away around having to pay all his men the pw.

And when they graduated and we’re off the pw jobs he still could pay them what ever he wanted their was no set wage or contract to be fit his men .


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Good luck trying to get a Republican DOL to give a $hit about union interests. Associated Builders and Contractors and Associated General Contractors want the new rule, they are steadfast Republican donors.

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## Fist of lightning (Aug 15, 2019)

TGGT said:


> Good luck trying to get a Republican DOL to give a $hit about union interests. Associated Builders and Contractors and Associated General Contractors want the new rule, they are steadfast Republican donors.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes they donate a lot of money to the republicans I believe they call them the round table . They started in the 80s yheir mo was to lower labor cost and construction cost . 
By undermining union labor and contractors . 

A race to the bottom


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Welcome aboard @*The.eletrical.worker*!
> 
> Please take a minute and fill out your profile about me section so we know a little about who we are talking to.
> 
> I was hoping you really knew how to spell 'electrical'!



Definitely IBEW material ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Have him drink some coffee or something


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

The.eletrical.worker said:


> I actually have a cousin that recently got into local one . He had zero contacts just has a lot of good experience . He can do controlls pipe work , switch gear , very well
> Rounded .
> 
> He has nothing but good things to say about this local I guess their very busy right now said he is on a big hospital job bjc I’m wesg county .
> ...


 Of course I can go down to local-1 club and go to work immediately. Start working out of book-3 as a "2nd class citizen" while being expected to pay 1rst class citizenship. The instant (no time delay) the boom economy goes bust I get bumped and why should I subsidize a benefit program I'm not eligible for? You think we don't know this, seen this, experience this before? You want to tell us how many are listed in book-1 as "out of work"... and why? I do know local-1 is desperate for good people. Your reputation has been known for a long time 
PS, how is it possible for your cousin to have "a lot of good experience" before joining local-1. That does not compute :no: You see here, only local-1 and 2 know them there wiring things.
So go ahead and tell us who you really are, Local-1 or 2?


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