# here goes nothing



## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

well im gonna try to get in the union today - wish me luck


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

Well, how did it go?


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## tpr (Jan 10, 2008)

whats making you look down this avenue?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Must be a storm in Louisiana.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Better him than me.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Like everything else on this planet of ours it's got it's pros and cons. You can listen to everyone whine about this and that on both sides of the fence.....and you can listen for a long time because the ones who are die hard one side or the other aren't going to back down about anything. The IBEW works for some people and doesn't work for others and like everything you get out of your place of employment what you put into it. Join and decide for yourself and see if it's a good fit for you.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

still undecided - they were complete j/a at the hall - the first guy wanted my work history from the social security office - spent most of the morning there and paid 40 bucks for my 10 year history - got back & the guy takes one look at it and left - comes back and says lets go talk to this guy - this guy was the apprenticship guy - they would not consider the 3 years maintenence work history or the 7 years spent building and maintaning railroad equipment equipment (3208 cat generators and 20 hp electric motors and such as, but not an EC)- no discussion of a ce or cw program - flat told thats not happening - basicly if i want to do this i must take a pay cut down to 12 bucks and hour and complete the 5 year program - i am not completely opposed to this as of yet - the classroom time apeals to me - i cant get this anywhere else - but.... the idea of being 34 years old and making 12 bucks an hour after clawing my way to where im at now from 68,000 a year is less than apealing


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

nolabama said:


> where im at now from 68,000 a year is less than apealing


the highest scale I see listed for La is $25/hr. Obviously that is plus benes but even then, not sure I see the benefit for you to go this route. What prompts you to leave $68k/annum for less money? and is your $68k including bene's or not?


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

nola just how committed to 'narlins are you?

I suspect there are other locals that will either look at your history more generously or have higher green apprentice wage rates. Ya know?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

BryanMD said:


> nola just how committed to 'narlins are you?
> 
> I suspect there are other locals that will either look at your history more generously or have higher green apprentice wage rates. Ya know?


I think he is at a local with about the highest 1st year rate in the state. That $12 would be almost 50% of the $25/hr local I found which is a higher percentage than any local I have heard of.

40% JIW scale for the first 6 months is more typical.

as to the experience acceptance; maybe but I wouldn't hold my breath. While the work he did is very valuable, it does not translate well into a construction job. He might be able to get in as a 2nd year apprentice but higher than that, from what I have seen, ain;t happening. Dang, we had a guy with a PhD (engineering) and at least several years in the electrical field and he came in as a 3rd year.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

100 percent commited to new orleans and the high pay rate job was a lost cause - that was with 401k and good (in retrospect) insurance
neither here nor there - my situation is between the rtards that i work with not the money - i could conceivable take the pay cut - i just dont know if i want to


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## tpr (Jan 10, 2008)

sometimes you got to give up a quarter to make a dollar.balance it all out .the ibew has been around for over 100 years.how many contractors have been around that long?good luck.


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## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

If you think you won't be working with or for some "rtards" in the IBEW, you are going to be very disappointed. It sounds like you have a pretty good job for your area of the country right now. I would look into other possibilities were you're at. Have you thought about the downside to getting into the IBEW? I believe you are looking at LU130? I have worked with several 130 members in the west, in other words they were trampin around cause there wasn't any work for them at home. In my opinion you sound like someone who looks for oppertunities to get ahead. Working out of the hall you will be limited in those oppertunities, everyone works for the same pay scales, whether you are doing more than the other guy or not. Your future earning potential will most likely not keep up with the cost of living. When I was a first year app in the '70's I had more buying power than I did when I last worked as a JW a few years ago. Your health and welfare benefits are NOT guaranteed in retierment, the trustee's can take them away at any time or change the cost to you to keep them, depending on how the fund is doing. Do you have enough time left to build a "livable" retirement through the local? What if you have several years where you can't work enough hours to keep your medical benefits up or make enough contributions to your pension? There will be times when you can't buy a job, if you are married will your wife understand "warming the bench" down at the hall? As the IO continues to re-classify into lower pay scales, ie CE/CW's, are you prepared to compete with this even to the point of lowering your classification in order to work? Since you are in the south there, you have no doubt seen the influx of illegal workers in your area. The IBEW will be competing with this hoard of illegal wage killers, future wage increases will be affected by this. Not trying to depress anyone, but the hall may not remember to mention any of this to you. One other thing to consider, will the hall guarantee that you can get all your hours to turn out in 5 years? In other words lets say you get in and during your second year the work just goes away, it can happen, and you are out of work for 6 months, you have to make up those on the job hours somehow. Sometimes you can get the hours in a sister local if they have the work. Bottom line is it may take more than the 5 years to get your JW ticket. After turning out you may have to travel to other parts of the country to work, which has another whole set of "ethics" to consider.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> Have you thought about the downside to getting into the IBEW? blah blah blah <snip>


All of that you just posted can happen anytime, anywhere, whether you are working for a union shop or an independent shop. Quit scaring the guy into tricking himself into thinking what might be best for himself.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

i appreciate all this information guys you have been a great help - and yes i was looking for oportunity for advance - lets see what happens next


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

oh nap - im not thinking about leaving a high paying job now for the union :no: i left that august 8 2005 - i wanted to come to the gulf coast and be a general contractor :thumbsup: well we all know what happend later that month - competition with all the contractors in america was not a good thing - im just glad i was able to stay away from some of the shaddier practices and not land a spot in prison :thumbup: so i had to eat a lot of crow for a while - i did not know what romex was when i got here all of my wire was pulled from a cart/stand - well i learn fast and im getting back to where i once belonged i just thought i could learn a bit more in the union than i can in the merit shops - being self taught sucks - not that i am completely self taught of course - i got mdshrunk:whistling2: and you guys to help me out along the way of course - 

as for rtards at the shop i work for - this morning contractor and ace resi guy are trying to figure out where to buy two prong (non grounding outlets ) because you cant put a three prong (grounding) outlet on an old non grounding conductor romex, 'cordin to code ya' know - i suggested a GFCI breaker for the solution -


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

sorry to hear of the tribulations from the aftermath of the hurricane. 


Personally, I believe the IBEW training is generally quite good. Considering it is no cost (except for the books and your time, at least in my local) it's not a bad deal either.

as far as what worn kleins said: not saying all IBEW are whiz kids but generally we are a smart bunch. One reason a person travels is they have trouble keeping a job in their home local. I have known guys that could not remain employed when there was full employment due to problems they have. So, they go and travel.
Some guys travel because the like to. I have known several that travel just becauese they like to. Like in any place in life, there is more than one story.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

nolabama said:


> still undecided - they were complete j/a at the hall - the first guy wanted my work history from the social security office...


You have to remember, *you* want to join, not the other way around. There are alot of people that think they can simply sign some paper to join the union, and then just reap the benefits. It's a brotherhood, and they take a lot of pride in what they stand for and they will never give away their jobs to just anybody off the street. 

It is in the best interests of the unions to make absolutely sure they have the best and highest qualified workers for their respective positions. Union contractors pay premium wages, and that cost is passed on to the consumer. It's easy to figure out why the union wouldn't want just any Joe Blow to just sign up and start working... it ain't that easy.

I actually just signed onto the books for the first time yesterday. I have my CA Journeyman General Electrician cert. and I have been in contact with the union representatives and president for the past two years (for a variety of reasons). It's the president's final decision on whether or not to let you sign on HIS books, and their are tons of criteria upon which will weigh on him letting you join or not. 

For example, the pres. of my LU told me _"sure, I'll let you sign my books. When you go out for a call, they'll expect journeyman work outta' you and I am confident that you have the skills and competence it takes to succeed out there."_ If he didn't know me, didn't know where I worked and under whom I worked for during the past couple years, I seriously doubt I coulda' just walked up to the counter and said _"hey I'm Joe Blow and I have a paper in my hand saying I can do electric, can I join?"_ and end up having him allow me to sign the books.

Anyone else with me on this?


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## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Spoon, you signed the books for the first time yesterday? Have you taken the oath and become a member of the local? You will soon find out that it is not the rule that the locals only take in the best. In a lot of the cases we get some really great electricians, and sometimes we don't. There is a tremendous amount of pressure put on the locals to take in just about anybody that is willing to sign up. The position of the IO is that the new members can be trained, and if they don't speak English, we'll teach them. I believe local 26 even boasted in a past issue of the journal about having an English class for new members. I have worked with some really great guys that were organized and we were lucky to have them. The local has also taken in guys that had no business doing any kind of electrical work at all, union or non-union.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> You will soon find out that* it is not the rule* that the locals only take in the best. In a lot of the cases we get some really great electricians, and sometimes we don't.


I never said it was a rule. It _is_ in the LU's best interest to maintain a strong talent pool. That's why the apprenticeship program is doing what it does. And if it has anything at all to do with this, no, I have yet to swear in at my local, but of course will be required to soon after signing on my first job.



worn kleins said:


> There is a tremendous amount of *pressure put on the locals to take in just about anybody* that is willing to sign up. The position of the IO is that the new members can be trained, *and if they don't speak English, we'll teach them*.




This cannot be said for all locals. I was turned away from my local on a couple occasions, which made it look as if there was no pressure on them at all. Not only that, all classes at my local (Journeyman level and Apprenticeship) are taught in English. The classes are in English, the apprenticeship application process is in English, and even the aptitude tests and oral interviews are in English.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

spoon said:


> You have to remember, *you* want to join, not the other way around. There are alot of people that think they can simply sign some paper to join the union, and then just reap the benefits. It's a brotherhood, and they take a lot of pride in what they stand for and they will never give away their jobs to just anybody off the street.
> 
> It is in the best interests of the unions to make absolutely sure they have the best and highest qualified workers for their respective positions. Union contractors pay premium wages, and that cost is passed on to the consumer. It's easy to figure out why the union wouldn't want just any Joe Blow to just sign up and start working... it ain't that easy.
> 
> ...


im not joe blow im nolabama - their is a difference i was simply looking for a quality of life move in employment - i was told the union could be a route to take - this will require three steps back before i can move forward - the package is great - dont get me wrong - i feel that they are by far and away the best in the city (union vs non) as far as pay goes 
i may not rule them out - i just cant do this right now and feel good about it givin what they were offering


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

nolabama said:


> im not joe blow im nolabama - their is a difference i was simply looking for a quality of life move in employment - i was told the union could be a route to take - this will require three steps back before i can move forward - the package is great - dont get me wrong - i feel that they are by far and away the best in the city (union vs non) as far as pay goes
> i may not rule them out - i just cant do this right now and feel good about it givin what they were offering


That's all you need. Best of luck to ya', Joe.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I considered 130.

First they told me I would take a pay cut, and I said "hell no".

Then they said they could take me in on my current rate (12), instead of the 10 they wanted to start me on.

Then I realized what a commitment it was.

I have it pretty good as is, and I based off what I hear from others in the field and people here, I've learned a lot more a lot faster than how the 130 would roll me.

Until I reach that ceiling I think I'll be fine without the Union.

Maybe one day when I want to reap the benefits I'll peak back in the door.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Maybe one day when I want to reap the benefits I'll peak back in the door.


 
Maybe you got the words mixed up, you see, when you're a good foreman at a non-union shop, the guys from the hall will come around and want you to peek in the back door.


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## Rong (Feb 23, 2008)

worn kleins said:


> Spoon, you signed the books for the first time yesterday? Have you taken the oath and become a member of the local? You will soon find out that it is not the rule that the locals only take in the best. In a lot of the cases we get some really great electricians, and sometimes we don't. There is a tremendous amount of pressure put on the locals to take in just about anybody that is willing to sign up. The position of the IO is that the new members can be trained, and if they don't speak English, we'll teach them. I believe local 26 even boasted in a past issue of the journal about having an English class for new members. I have worked with some really great guys that were organized and we were lucky to have them. The local has also taken in guys that had no business doing any kind of electrical work at all, union or non-union.



You have about said it all in that statement. It is the same here in my Local as well. Just because you belong to the IBEW does not make a super electrician out of you.


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## spoon (Dec 9, 2008)

Rong said:


> *You have about said it all in that statement.* It is the same here in my Local as well. Just because you belong to the IBEW does not make a super electrician out of you.


I think you are making a mistake by agreeing with blanket statements such as your buddies' just then. Like I said before, at my LU all applications, classes, texts, and people are all English written/spoken. It is *not* the responsibility of the IBEW to teach English to those who can't speak it, and THEN make them good electricians. 

Although there might be tons of boneheads out there in the trade (IBEW or non), and I understand this having dealt with a few of them, you cannot argue that it's not in the best interest of the IBEW to maintain the highest level of talent possible. I also understand now that some LU's may have more of an overstock of boneheads than others. And to reiterate, I cannot speak for other LU's out there, but I know for a fact that my LU has never been in the practice of just accepting _anyone_ off the streets. It took me a few trials to get in, and I even have documented experience, and I speak engrish! :jester:


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## Rong (Feb 23, 2008)

spoon said:


> I think you are making a mistake by agreeing with blanket statements such as your buddies' just then. Like I said before, at my LU all applications, classes, texts, and people are all English written/spoken. It is *not* the responsibility of the IBEW to teach English to those who can't speak it, and THEN make them good electricians.
> 
> Although there might be tons of boneheads out there in the trade (IBEW or non), and I understand this having dealt with a few of them, you cannot argue that it's not in the best interest of the IBEW to maintain the highest level of talent possible. I also understand now that some LU's may have more of an overstock of boneheads than others. And to reiterate, I cannot speak for other LU's out there, but I know for a fact that my LU has never been in the practice of just accepting _anyone_ off the streets. It took me a few trials to get in, and I even have documented experience, and I speak engrish! :jester:


 Spoon I did not "grow up in the Union". In fact I worked 10 yrs in open shops and then 20 yrs for the State before I organized. I tried to join in the early 70's but was it was not to be. So I did the best thing that I could. I worked in open shops, studied and asked alot of questions. Do I think of myself as the best electrician no, but I try to do the best that I can and strive to have a job that a fellow electrician would admire and not think what hack did this job. 

I am leaving the English speaking/reading thing alone. I have very strong feelings along these lines. Just know that I am a good "all American *******".


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## roland (Dec 13, 2008)

BryanMD said:


> nola just how committed to 'narlins are you?
> 
> I suspect there are other locals that will either look at your history more generously or have higher green apprentice wage rates. Ya know?


__________________
"ET.com is NOT an ibew discussion forum. So **lay off** trying to twist every topic into an us vs them. It will get you more grief than joy and will undercut the value that the *occasional* pro organization comment could have."

If ET is not an ibew discussion forum, then why have a "union topics" thread on "ET"?


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## collin.thomas (Apr 14, 2008)

roland said:


> __________________
> "ET.com is NOT an ibew discussion forum. So **lay off** trying to twist every topic into an us vs them. It will get you more grief than joy and will undercut the value that the *occasional* pro organization comment could have."
> 
> If ET is not an ibew discussion forum, then why have a "union topics" thread on "ET"?


It is a "union topics" board, not a "bash non-union" board


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Only the one section of the ET.com forum (the one called "union topics") is for union topics... gee funny how that works out eh? The **other** SEVENTEEN sections are NOT for union topics. 

fyi... the union topics section was added well after the forum was started because the owner and moderators agreed that it was a good thing to do. This is the same site owner at that other site where it was mentioned to be a good target for wading into and disrupting.

Something you'll be seeing more of in the other forum sections:

found here: Cool IBEW Sites
Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum (great ibew electrical discussion forum, talks about jatc scores, and so much more) - http://www.electriciantalk.com/

Just a heads up to all the loyal IBEW brothers who have joined here of late...
whatever you may believe or may have been told ET.com is NOT an ibew discussion forum. 

Brothers are more than welcome to participate in any of the chatter on actual work or theory or anything else but **lay off** trying to twist every topic into an us vs them argument. It will get you more grief than joy and will undercut the value that the *occasional* and actually on topic pro organization comment could have.

In the "Union Topics" section of the forum... go for it. But understand that most merit shop guys won't even looking at your words there; let alone absorbing the message.

And for everybody else... Don't engage them when they start up.


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