# Can a controls technician obtain a JM license



## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Depends on what state you live in.
Hard to tell because it's not on your profile.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

Depends on local and state laws and how they determine acceptable experience for eligibility to test.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

In most states you need to be directly supervised by a licensed electrician for your hours to count. Those apprenticeship hour need to be certified by the employer.

You will get more help if you fill out your profile, I think you need to be on a PC to do so (not mobile).


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Welcome to Electrician Talk. 
Please take a few minutes and fill out your profile.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard @mhernandez1692!

As others have said it all depends on the location requirements where you are.

Most places you will need to be working under an electrical license to get your hours to qualify.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I've had both the fortune and extreme misfortune of working with men who "can pass any test". It's true... they can, indeed, pass the test. It's a more rare guy who can actually DO the work. That's why there's generally hours requirements as a prerequisite to testing an license issuance. Some places break it down by hours in certain categories of the trade to make sure you're rounded. I know that's how the CE/CW program works/worked.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

A license is nothing more than a permission slip from the government that allows you to make your living as you see fit. This is why I support the complete abolition of all trade licensing.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

MTW said:


> A license is nothing more than a permission slip from the government that allows you to make your living as you see fit. This is why I support the complete abolition of all trade licensing.


I'd rather work with a guy that can actually do this stuff before I'd pick a guy with a piece of paper that says he probably can. Or, a guy with a resume that proves years of success in all aspects of the trade over a guy that can pass a test.

That said, I'm all for training someone. I just don't want to train some poser who thinks he's got everything all figured out.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> I'd rather work with a guy that can actually do this stuff before I'd pick a guy with a piece of paper that says he probably can. Or, a guy with a resume that proves years of success in all aspects of the trade over a guy that can pass a test.
> 
> That said, I'm all for training someone. I just don't want to train some poser who thinks he's got everything all figured out.


Of course. I'm not suggesting we throw away standards and training. I'm advocating getting the government out the process. The trade is far too diverse and wide for a one-size-fits-all license issued by bureaucrats.


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

Probably not... how well do you know the electrical code, how much experience do you have safely (and legally) installing gear? Speaking as an instrumentation and controls guy, there's a bigger difference in experience than you'd think. Electrical theory/knowledge would probably help you through an electrician apprenticeship, but it can't really help you with proprietary knowledge and experience of installing to code.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MTW said:


> A license is nothing more than a permission slip from the government that allows you to make your living as you see fit. This is why I support the complete abolition of all trade licensing.


Do you support no inspections as well?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Do you support no inspections as well?


I know you were asking Peter, but I'll offer my comments. I do no support licensing in any way, but I support a strong plan review and strong inspection process. In fact, I might go as far as to say I support stronger inspections than we currently have, which are all over the place in terms of comprehensiveness and quality. Inspections are the only thing that can assure a safe and compliant installation. Trade licensing cannot.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I worked primarily in manufacturing doing control work and electrical work.
I have experience on both ends of this.
I was able to sit for the masters here in SC. They accepted all my time as I was titled electrician or industrial electrician in every job I have had. 

Contact your state licensing board for your details.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I know you were asking Peter, but I'll offer my comments. I do no support licensing in any way, but I support a strong plan review and strong inspection process. In fact, I might go as far as to say I support stronger inspections than we currently have, which are all over the place in terms of comprehensiveness and quality. Inspections are the only thing that can assure a safe and compliant installation. Trade licensing cannot.


I agree with you 100%.

I have done some jobs in places that required no license but I always still insisted on an inspection just for my own peace of mind.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Do you support no inspections as well?


It depends. I don't support the government system of inspection we have now. It simply doesn't work and is in fact highly detrimental to the trade. Therefore some kind of free market system should replace it.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

MTW said:


> It depends. I don't support the government system of inspection we have now. It simply doesn't work and is in fact highly detrimental to the trade. Therefore some kind of free market system should replace it.


Sort of what we have here in a lot of PA. You call an inspector off a list of qualified companies/men. Anyone you want. Doesn't matter.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MTW said:


> It depends. I don't support the government system of inspection we have now. It simply doesn't work and is in fact highly detrimental to the trade. Therefore some kind of free market system should replace it.


Are you kidding?

Please explain what type system of inspection you are talking about?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Are you kidding?
> 
> Please explain what type system of inspection you are talking about?


No, not kidding at all. What makes you think I'm kidding? My views on the licensing and inspection process are not unknown on this forum. 

As for a better system, anything that takes the government out of the equation is a massive improvement than what exists now.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

MTW said:


> A license is nothing more than a permission slip from the government that allows you to make your living as you see fit. This is why I support the complete abolition of all trade licensing.


As an inspector I highly highly disagree with this. Being able to pass the test proves that at the very least you know where to look or how to look for the appropriate information. I do wayyyy too many inspections for "contractors" and "electricians" that have bought permits and have not a clue what they are doing. It makes my job much more difficult because I basically have to put these guys through school. All the while all they want to do is argue with me because Johhny the inspector has always passed it like this so what is the problem...



MDShunk said:


> I know you were asking Peter, but I'll offer my comments. I do no support licensing in any way, but I support a strong plan review and strong inspection process. In fact, I might go as far as to say I support stronger inspections than we currently have, which are all over the place in terms of comprehensiveness and quality. Inspections are the only thing that can assure a safe and compliant installation. Trade licensing cannot.


A strong inspection process only works when the guys doing the work are qualified in the first place. If you don't know the code you're installing to then the inspection is just going to be difficult and have the inspector ready to beat his head into a wall...

Granted, licensing does not stop crap work totally, nothing will, but it sure as hell does cut down on it quite a bit.



MDShunk said:


> Sort of what we have here in a lot of PA. You call an inspector off a list of qualified companies/men. Anyone you want. Doesn't matter.


That is not true of all of PA. It is left up to the municipality on how they enforce the UCC if they opt-in. Some are "open" in which you can choose whoever you like as you describe. Others have a limited list of agencies you can call. Some have a contract with a single agency and that is who you will use, you have no choice. If the municipality opts-out of enforcing the UCC then the state, by default, has ALL commercial inspections and residential inspections remain "open" and the homeowner can choose any agency properly licensed for that area by the state.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

pudge565 said:


> As an inspector I highly highly disagree with this. Being able to pass the test proves that at the very least you know where to look or how to look for the appropriate information. I do wayyyy too many inspections for "contractors" and "electricians" that have bought permits and have not a clue what they are doing. It makes my job much more difficult because I basically have to put these guys through school. All the while all they want to do is argue with me because Johhny the inspector has always passed it like this so what is the problem...


Being able to pass a test means absolutely nothing. I live in a heavily licensed and regulated environment and the license is a piece of toilet paper. It says nothing about one's competence, abilities or work ethic. The worst electricians I've ever worked with all had that piece of paper that said "journeyman" or "electrical contractor" on it.


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## gottspeed (Mar 8, 2010)

MTW said:


> Being able to pass a test means absolutely nothing. I live in a heavily licensed and regulated environment and the license is a piece of toilet paper. It says nothing about one's competence, abilities or work ethic. The worst electricians I've ever worked with all had that piece of paper that said "journeyman" or "electrical contractor" on it.



Please don't tell me your ideal system is letting anybody with a pack of smokes and a pair of sweat-pants work in our trade as long as they can pass an inspection. You're making it sound like you're salty because you can't pick up all your employees at Home Depot in the morning.


There is a reason there is a barrier to entry in almost everything worth engaging in.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

gottspeed said:


> There is a reason there is a barrier to entry in almost everything worth engaging in.


Explain to me what that reason is, and I'll show you why you're wrong.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Explain to me what that reason is, and I'll show you why you're wrong.


I'd say because there are minimum codes in place to try and ensure the health and safety of those using or occupying the buildings/facilities being built and or renovated.

A licensing requirement is there to ensure that those doing the work have a basic understanding of the codes at hand.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

A proper inspection will sort that out. No license needed. All the license would do is make the inspector's job easier (maybe).


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

gottspeed said:


> Please don't tell me your ideal system is letting anybody with a pack of smokes and a pair of sweat-pants work in our trade as long as they can pass an inspection.


Yes, that's what I'm saying.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

gottspeed said:


> Please don't tell me your ideal system is letting anybody with a pack of smokes and a pair of sweat-pants work in our trade as long as they can pass an inspection.


Yes, that's what I'm saying.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

MTW said:


> Being able to pass a test means absolutely nothing. I live in a heavily licensed and regulated environment and the license is a piece of toilet paper. It says nothing about one's competence, abilities or work ethic. The worst electricians I've ever worked with all had that piece of paper that said "journeyman" or "electrical contractor" on it.


Nice way to quote only a single portion of what I said just so you could argue about it. My second portion in that post clearly says that licensing will not totally stop crap work however it sure as hell does cut it down by a lot. I have experience with this being an inspector and seeing the quality of unlicensed guys buying permits and those that actually hold a license doing the work. Of course no licensing is worth a **** if there is no enforcement of the rules which seems to be the case in Filthadelphia...



MDShunk said:


> A proper inspection will sort that out. No license needed. All the license would do is make the inspector's job easier (maybe).


From my day to day experience I can tell you that licensing sure as hell makes the work quality much better. That being said, it does not necessarily make the inspection easier. I have plenty of contractors, licensed or not, that when I call a violation out tell me they have been doing it longer than I've been alive or insert number of years here or the classic no other inspector fails me for that... The problem is a lot of guys that pass the test for a license (if there even is one since most places in PA have no test, just pay a fee and show insurance and you're good to go) don't open the NEC up after they pass.

The other issue is crappy inspectors. If you do have inspectors passing violations then it undermines the entire inspection process, even the inspectors doing their job properly.


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