# Protest against The Home Depot



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Yeled said:


> Does it make sense that we all buy materials from The Home Depot and they stub us in the back by offering electrical services at lower prices? They compete with us using the their buying power that we give them...
> I stopped buying there and will never step foot in their stores again, until something will change.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


 They do not care who they sell to.

THEY JUST SELL!


MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeled said:


> Does it make sense that we all buy materials from The Home Depot and they stub us in the back by offering electrical services at lower prices? They compete with us using the their buying power that we give them...
> I stopped buying there and will never step foot in their stores again, until something will change.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


 
There's competition everywhere, get over it.

If I were the owner of this site, or a mad, both home depot threads would be trash. They are one of the advertisers here that makes this site possible. Mods, do the right thing, make these threads disappear.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The guys who do electrical work for HD are just like you.. local EC's who agree to do the job for the price HD quotes the customer..

This is the info I have been told.. but I have never worked for them.. 

Your boycott idea is a waste of time.. be a better to complain about the illegals hanging around the parking lot looking for cash day jobs.. IMO..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> If I were the owner of this site, or a mad, both home depot threads would be trash. They are one of the advertisers here that makes this site possible. Mods, do the right thing, make these threads disappear.


That is a bit extreme.. trashing HD has been going on in here since I joined.. :blink:


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## Yeled (Jan 5, 2012)

B4T said:


> The guys who do electrical work for HD are just like you.. local EC's who agree to do the job for the price HD quotes the customer..
> 
> This is the info I have been told.. but I have never worked for them..
> 
> Your boycott idea is a waste of time.. be a better to complain about the illegals hanging around the parking lot looking for cash day jobs.. IMO..


I agree, but it still makes me mad to see that they charge $99 to install a ceiling fan, and people use their services just because it's there.

Sent from my iPad2


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeled said:


> I agree, but it still makes me mad to see that they charge $99 to install a ceiling fan, and people use their services just because it's there.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


 
Why would you get mad at what somebody else charges? It has nothing to do with you.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Yeled said:


> Does it make sense that we all buy materials from The Home Depot and they stub us in the back by offering electrical services at lower prices?


_"We all.."_ ?? Speak for yourself. 

I only go here out of necessity and only occasionally. I feel sorry for any of you that have no other choice.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Yeled said:


> I agree, but it still makes me mad to see that they charge $99 to install a ceiling fan, and people use their services just because it's there.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


I have Craigslist guys doing 200 amp. service changes with copper wire for $1400.00.. there is cheap going on everywhere.. just ignore it..


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## Yeled (Jan 5, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Why would you get mad at what somebody else charges? It has nothing to do with you.


Because they are in the business of selling do-it-yourself stuff, this is not do-it-yourself and it's making me look bad when I bid on a job. I don't have the mass load of work that these guys have... Therefore my prices are usually higher.

Sent from my iPad2


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeled said:


> Because they are in the business of selling do-it-yourself stuff, this is not do-it-yourself and it's making me look bad when I bid on a job. I don't have the mass load of work that these guys have... Therefore my prices are usually higher.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


 
Who said that their business model is DIY only? Does that mean they will deny a sale to a professional? Get real, that is not their only business


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Yeled said:


> Does it make sense that we all buy materials from The Home Depot and they stub us in the back by offering electrical services at lower prices? They compete with us using the their buying power that we give them...


Or... they remove the deadwood low price clutter from the market...
the same way that the Kia dealer keeps those people from cluttering up the Chevy and Cadillac showroom.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Yeled said:


> Because they are in the business of selling do-it-yourself stuff, this is not do-it-yourself and it's making me look bad when I bid on a job. I don't have the mass load of work that these guys have... Therefore my prices are usually higher.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


Then you are comparing yourself to them and putting yourself on the same level. Bad idea.

You should be placing yourself higher and thinking you are better. This attitude WILL be noticed by the customer.


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## Roger. (Dec 18, 2011)

I wonder if professional auto mechanics get mad at parts stores for selling to the back yard mechanics?


Roger


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## Scott_w (Jan 1, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> Then you are comparing yourself to them and putting yourself on the same level. Bad idea.
> 
> You should be placing yourself higher and thinking you are better. This attitude WILL be noticed by the customer.


This is gold right here! :thumbup: 

In my previous business (not electrical... but renovations, additions etc) my prices were sometimes 2X the competitors. Most were charging $10-20/hr. I was averaging $50+ (mostly fixed price jobs). My theory was I didn't care what the next guy charged, even told the client they could get it done cheaper, but not as well as my company, or as professional. Larger projects I charged for the estimate and scope of work package.

Remember, it isn't always just the product, it is the whole experience. This is right down to the vehicle you pull up in, if you clean up, leave garbage on site, how you talk while working. I was busy for MANY years with no advertising, but decided I didn't want the worries anymore and took an apprenticeship that was offered to me. 

What the next guy charges doesn't matter. You need to explain to them WHY you are the man for the job, although your reputation should speak for itself.

REMEMBER there is a market for every price point. A client for example that wants a $2K bathroom reno would not pay me the min 8K I would estimate the job at. I always refused the "quick fixes" and people were shocked. I set myself up to be viewed as an expert, not as someone that just wanted to make money off everyone that came along. Someone that only was looking at spending 2K on a quick fix, was never a potential client to begin with. 

PRE-QUALIFY on the phone before going to every estimate. Not everyone is a potential client!:no:

scott


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Vote with your feet/wallet if you think they blow then don't go there...I use 2 different supply houses and H/d too. Different hours /needs locations...do as you please..they ain't goin now where just like waldo-mart...and they sponsor this site sooooo what ya goina do? post more?:no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Yeled said:


> Does it make sense that we all buy materials from The Home Depot and they stub us in the back by offering electrical services at lower prices? They compete with us using the their buying power that we give them...
> I stopped buying there and will never step foot in their stores again, until something will change.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


Remember you need to learn how to sell your product like a Maserati not a yugo like HD sells.

If the client you are selling to wants the lowest price someone will beat you no matter how low your prices are.

Sell the top of the line and you will make top dollar.:thumbup:


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

Yeled said:


> I agree, but it still makes me mad to see that they charge $99 to install a ceiling fan, and people use their services just because it's there.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


The $99.00 install is just a hook. Read the fine print. This is where the electrician makes his money. OH, box is not rated for a ceiling fan must replace, do you want to switch the fan and light separately? After it is said and done the $99.00 install cost $500.00.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So we're all Maserati sparky's, and HD's are Yugo's ?

well, i certainly see more of the latter than the former on the road....

~CS~


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> So we're all Maserati sparky's, and HD's are Yugo's ?
> 
> well, i certainly see more of the latter than the former on the road....
> 
> ~CS~


You are in Vermont "Yugo Central"..:laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

and almost an hour from the nearest HD Harry....~CS~


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> and almost an hour from the nearest HD Harry....~CS~


Give them a call and complain there is not one near you im sure they will build one near you.....................Maybe they will let you wire it as well..:laughing::thumbup:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't mind home depot. I do not buy much electrical material from them. Mainly romex because of the significant savings compared to the supply houses around here. I say, to each their own.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Give them a call and complain there is not one near you im sure they will build one near you.....................Maybe they will let you wire it as well..:laughing::thumbup:


actually big box stores employ their own crews

however, i did wire the _first _VT walmart

in Bennington

Wallyworld staged a prize fight to cross our borders into our turf, lastet _years_

the only reason i was on that job was they entered a reno building, hid the mame *'wallmart' *from the public, not on any prints, zoining, nothing

when it was fnally apparent to the small shop owers in the area that wallmart was moving in, my crew had to cross picket lines

All those self made men who didn't need government in their face & slaved to create a buisness folded quicker than_ sh*t_ through a goose

Libertopians, not just for breakfast anymore!
~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> I don't mind home depot. I do not buy much electrical material from them. Mainly romex because of the significant savings compared to the supply houses around here. I say, to each their own.


 
but, there's that _'sales with a brain'_ attraction as well Chris

now _think _about this, as contractors we make good while the iron is _hot_, right?

i can count on one hand the _'traditional electrical suppliers'_ that i can call and say 'need 100A service, 65' of seu, 30 cir panel, all the trimmings _PRONTO _

....and have the counterman get it 90% right for me

the day HD can do better, they're _history_ imho.....
 ~CS~


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Yeled said:


> Because they are in the business of selling do-it-yourself stuff, this is not do-it-yourself and it's making me look bad when I bid on a job. I don't have the mass load of work that these guys have... Therefore my prices are usually higher.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


Then you are not doing a good job of selling and explaining the price difference. There is always someone that will do the same job cheaper, maybe not as professional, maybe a cheaper fan, but cheaper and there is always someone looking for that guy.

I understand you attitude towards HD, and I would not buy from them for electrical. But on Sunday when m toilet float craps out HD here I come.


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## johnnyontheside (Aug 30, 2010)

This reminds me I need to go to home depot. The supply house here sells mc tuff. I hate that stuff.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

perhaps it's better to simply join 'em if ya can't beat 'em then

maybe i'll retire as a HD electrical dept crummedgeon

i'll give out advice _all day_ with a flask of Grande Marnier in my orange pouch....


~CS~


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Yeled said:


> I agree, but it still makes me mad to see that they charge $99 to install a ceiling fan, and people use their services just because it's there.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


Well, to be clear, they install a celing fan for $99 IF:
There is an existing FAN RATED BOX.
There is existing electrical ran TO the box FROOM a switch.

If neither of those conditions exist, the price goes way up.

Have you seen the quality of work HD puts out? What are you worried about??

Im doing a job next week for a lady I've worked for for about 6 years. The before me, she had asked her neighbor about electrical services from HD. Her neighbor had the same model condo, and there is a chandelier hanging above a landing going up the second floor. 

Anyways, she wanted it taken down and replaced with a recessed light. So..... the home depot guy came, removed the fixture, then went up in the attic to remove the box (suspended on a flat bar between the joists). He gets his sawz-all out, cuts one side, then the other..... and guess what? He was above my client's condo, and HER chandelier came crashing down to the floor, damaging a whole bunch of crap.

I say let home depot keep doin their thing.... keeps me busy


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## Hairbone (Feb 16, 2011)

HD, bi_g blue have national crews for the instalation of the lighting displays, carpent machine electric, etc, but the bldg wiring is usualy by a regional ec and they wire to junction boxes for those crews._


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I love The Home Depot. Always have. They have always made my job easier which earns me more money. I don't feel that I am in any way competing with them for business. They do their thing, I do mine.

If enough people don't like them, they will soon be out of business. I don't see that happening any time soon.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

220/221 said:


> They do their thing, I do mine.
> 
> .


until the day they do your thing, and your theirs 220/1.....~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I love HD and Lowes. I'm at one or the other almost every day. I'm buying more and more from them and I see that continuing. I haven't been in a distributor in three weeks.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I just ordered the trucks.....~CS~


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I love HD and Lowes. I'm at one or the other almost every day. I'm buying more and more from them and I see that continuing. I haven't been in a distributor in three weeks.


This is truly a shame. 
Where do you buy 3-phase equipment? Or lever bypass meter pans? Or heaters for a motor starter?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> So we're all Maserati sparky's, and HD's are Yugo's ?
> 
> well, i certainly see more of the latter than the former on the road....
> 
> ~CS~


Now this is just silly. When was the last time you saw a Yugo on the road? 
On the contrary, my friend owns a new Maserati GT. :thumbsup:

You need a better metaphor. :laughing:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is truly a shame.
> Where do you buy 3-phase equipment? Or lever bypass meter pans? Or heaters for a motor starter?


Supply House or Walmart.:laughing:


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Supply House or Walmart.:laughing:[/Q
> 
> He uses 1.5 single phase Murray panels and has a big conglomartion of pipe.and duct so he can run one ungrounded into each panel. Forget handle ties


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> . :thumbsup:
> 
> You need a better metaphor. :laughing:


how's about a song?






 
~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)




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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is truly a shame.
> Where do you buy 3-phase equipment? Or lever bypass meter pans? Or heaters for a motor starter?


Well duh, not at The Depot or Lowes.  I don't do that work so it is irrelevant anyway.

I'm in it for the money, no other reason. wherever I get the best deal is where you'll find me.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I'm in it for the money, no other reason. wherever I get the best deal is where you'll find me.


This is a shame really. This is the mentality that keeps walmart packed every day and puts the little guy out of business. 

I'll spend a few more dollars to try and keep the local economy strong.


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is a shame really. This is the mentality that keeps walmart packed every day and puts the little guy out of business.
> 
> I'll spend a few more dollars to try and keep the local economy strong.


I wonder how many Walmart workers have their own houses and hire electrical contractors?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is a shame really. This is the mentality that keeps walmart packed every day and puts the little guy out of business.
> 
> I'll spend a few more dollars to try and keep the local economy strong.


A lot of small businesses stayed in business because merely for a lack of competition. With the big box stores you eliminate the bottom of the barrel of the mom and pop shops. The ones that are worth their salt usually stay in business. I do my shopping at "all of the above".


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Stan B. said:


> I wonder how many Walmart workers have their own houses and hire electrical contractors?


Seriously? :blink: Not many IMO. Have you checked the latest average wally salaries? Who's buying a house on that kind of money?

Walmart salaries are why places like HD thrive. Even if someone who works at walmart could afford to buy a home they would not be thriving to the point where they would be doing renovations or repairs and hiring them out. These are the places we see in the thereifixedit.com web site.

Don't get me wrong, there are places where there are no decent mom & pop shops of really any kind. Places like this deserve a HD or Lowes. There is one such place not too far from me. I just despise when they drop two or three of them within spitting distance of each other and thriving small stores.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> The ones that are worth their salt usually stay in business.


This I will totally agree on. 

I have a HD and Lowes, and WM and Sam's, within minutes of me. I also have a chain of a small family owned lumber yard/home center. The latter is thriving due to the disgust of the poor service and quality of material you get at the home centers. 
That said, these are few and far between and from what I have seen this is the exception rather than the rule.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is a shame really. This is the mentality that keeps walmart packed every day and puts the little guy out of business.
> 
> I'll spend a few more dollars to try and keep the local economy strong.



It's called competition. He chooses to shop at home depot. His choice. He doesn't live in Cuba where you don't have choices.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> It's called competition. He chooses to shop at home depot. His choice. He doesn't live in Cuba where you don't have choices.


Well no kidding.


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I'm in it for the money, no other reason. wherever I get the best deal is where you'll find me.


There is a problem with that line of thought,Scott. How many times, here and on other forums, have we complained about customers using unlicensed handymen to save a few dollars while the contractors are going under? The country has become "mart conditioned" to the lowest price possible with out seeing the real value in what they are getting.
Now I am not saying I have never bought from the box stores because I have. As some one mentioned the supply house cannot match their price on NM-B. And because the way it is you must have a sharp pencil when bidding. They are open when the supply house are not for the little things. But for the most part I will do as much as possiable with the supply houses.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I'll still buy my romex at home depot.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is a shame really. This is the mentality that keeps walmart packed every day and puts the little guy out of business.
> 
> I'll spend a few more dollars to try and keep the local economy strong.


So, spending more money for the same products at a supply house versus at home depot is the best thing to do because it supports the local economy? Hmmmm.... I've always been taught that financial decisions a company makes ought to be in the best interest of that company. Nobody is doing us any favors. And considering the local supply house (who you call the little guy) is netting a whole crapload more per year than me, and most of us, it seems that they ought to be doing what they can to support US, not the other way around.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously? :blink: Not many IMO. Have you checked the latest average wally salaries? Who's buying a house on that kind of money?
> 
> Walmart salaries are why places like HD thrive. Even if someone who works at walmart could afford to buy a home they would not be thriving to the point where they would be doing renovations or repairs and hiring them out. These are the places we see in the thereifixedit.com web site.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there are places where there are no decent mom & pop shops of really any kind. Places like this deserve a HD or Lowes. There is one such place not too far from me. I just despise when they drop two or three of them within spitting distance of each other and thriving small stores.


I know Rewire paid right around $60,000 for his house, in rural Missouri.. Most of you don't live in southern California, so, for the price of my house, I likely could have gotten two or three of yours. A Walmart employee can definitely afford to buy a house. As with anything else, it's not about how much you make, it's about whether or not you pay your bills on time.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

B W E said:


> I know Rewire paid right around $60,000 for his house, in rural Missouri.. Most of you don't live in southern California, so, for the price of my house, I likely could have gotten two or three of yours. A Walmart employee can definitely afford to buy a house. As with anything else, it's not about how much you make, it's about whether or not you pay your bills on time.


Rewire's entire house was about 1/2 my downpayment.....


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is a shame really. This is the mentality that keeps walmart packed every day and puts the little guy out of business.
> 
> I'll spend a few more dollars to try and keep the local economy strong.


I like to support local business but this is business. If I need an roll of 8 thwn right now and the HD is 20 minutes (typical) closer and $20 cheaper (also typical) than a supply house, I'm making the logical choice and putting that money in MY pocket. Even if the price was the same, the HD has locations 10 minutes from just about anywhere in my metro area. 

We do tons of service work and time is money. The HD can easily save me an hour in some cases. Hell, I'll look for an Ace or True Value just to save a 10 minute commute to the HD. I found a 1" sealtite connector at Ace last week. It was a long shot but they had it.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

B W E said:


> So, spending (edit: a bit more) money for the same (edit: plain vanilla) products at a supply house versus at home depot is the best thing to do because it supports the local economy?


Yeah. 



> And considering the local supply house...


...is the one you still want and NEED to be there AND able to offer reasonable prices on the other 
non vanilla things the HD's etc won't and don't stock  AND because they know you be willing to do 
just a little extra for a known customer (like let you have that more unusual item after hours).

These are just examples of course.
No one should just bend over because the SH is local owned.
But when your town is down to one commercial house... see what you pay.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

We buy everything we can from HD or Lowes. Then we order as much as possible online. Every supply house here has pissed me off multiple times.

One just botched a large wire order. Made for a sucky friday for me.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> We buy everything we can from HD or Lowes.
> Then we order as much as possible online.


This (online) is just as bad.



> Every supply house here has pissed me off multiple times.


Every one? Think about that for a minute.
What was the one common denominator in each of those transactions?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I've never had a good relationship with any supply house. That's why I love HD so much. You walk in, check prices, make your choices, pay and walk out.

If local supply houses were halfway smart, they would follow suit. They seem stuck in the olden days. They make you jump thru hoops to get pricing. I've been screwed at the counter too many times. I want to know the price of what I'm buying.





> Every one? Think about that for a minute.
> What was the one common denominator in each of those transactions?


Me too. Now what is the common denominator? 

I was setting up our warehouse a few years ago when we were really busy. I was there for weeks taking care of the daily ordering and recieving. I am not exaggerating when I say the 90% of the orders came in wrong due to supply house error.

They were stuck in the old days using outdated methods. My orders had to go through too many hands which meant too many chances for failure.

I think that things have improved a bit lately. Everything is emailed these days so at least our orders are documented.

If the suppliers would open up their inventory and let us order directly online, using their stock numbers, it would cut the mistakes drastically.


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## johnnyontheside (Aug 30, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously? :blink: Not many IMO. Have you checked the latest average wally salaries? Who's buying a house on that kind of money?
> 
> Walmart salaries are why places like HD thrive. Even if someone who works at walmart could afford to buy a home they would not be thriving to the point where they would be doing renovations or repairs and hiring them out. These are the places we see in the thereifixedit.com web site.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there are places where there are no decent mom & pop shops of really any kind. Places like this deserve a HD or Lowes. There is one such place not too far from me. I just despise when they drop two or three of them within spitting distance of each other and thriving small stores.


So how many people do the mom and pop stores employ, and how much more is their salary versus someone who works at Walmart?


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## LightsOn81 (Jan 6, 2012)

While I do feel for the little guy, and have little sympathy for Wally world and such the facts are this: lowes beat city electric and ESC by 100 dollars on a 500 ft roll of #4 thhn and the kicker is I was shopping for 400 ft at the time. Hd beats the supply house on common Klein hand tools by an average of 5 dollars. I prefer to deal with supply houses based on relationships and helpfulness but bottom line is saving 100 dollars AND getting 100 more feet of wire. At the end of the day if American business wants American customers it's got to lower it's prices. American customers do the same thing American business owners do: listen to the money talk


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is a shame really. This is the mentality that keeps walmart packed every day and puts the little guy out of business.
> 
> I'll spend a few more dollars to try and keep the local economy strong.


That's your opinion and are free to judge but you don't know what I do for my community so you probably shouldn't.

But either way, I really don't give a crap. As I said, I am in it for the money. no other reason. None. I am 41 and my time is limited. I want, and need to make as much as I can. 17 years of giving a crap got me nowhere. FTW! My entire attitude and outlook has been dramatically altered over the last few years. It's already paying off big time.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

johnnyontheside said:


> So how many people do the mom and pop stores employ, and how much more is their salary versus someone who works at Walmart?


Exactly. That argument is nonsense.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Exactly. That argument is nonsense.


No, it's certainly not nonsense. 

On a percentage basis (size of the company, both physical and fiscal) I bet the local shops employ more people. And I also know they pay a decent amount more. 

No one is telling anyone where to shop. All of this is just opinion and editorial.

I know I have it very good where I am. I have a few smaller places I can patronize, and my main supply house treats me so good I actually do MUCH better going there.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:



> Me too. Now what is the common denominator?


Clearly we're just idiots and all the mistakes were ours. And supply houses are perfect. Lol


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## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

It all comes down to money..if I can get the same equipment cheaper at HD then that's what I'm going to do! I'm very up front with my customers as far as my markup, so if I'm on a T&M job, I'll order everything from a supply house, but on bid jobs I'm going to HD.

I've also been plagued with wrong materials being delivered from supply houses. You ask for white fixtures...they don't have them, so they send you bronze! I order smoke detectors and get emergency lights! Then I have to deal with getting all this stuff back to them, credits, and hopefully getting the right materials before the job comes up, which doesn't always happen. Then on top of all this my supply house carries NOTHING any more, it all comes from the "HUB" over night to my door. You need a meter socket in the middle of the day because a tree ripped a service down? My supply house won't have it...HD will! 

and for the record...I don't worry about the HD hack electricians


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

the _we_ concept of collectivism that made this country great is slowly slipping away via the _me _generations inability to see beyond their own wallets folks....


~CS~


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> the _we_ concept of collectivism that made this country great is slowly slipping away via the _me _generations inability to see beyond their own wallets folks....
> 
> 
> ~CS~


This is a cause and effect arguement. 

Did the individuals bail or were they forced out?







It's too deep for me. I'm just a mechanic.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

220/221 said:


> > This is a cause and effect arguement.
> 
> 
> indeed so
> ...


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

All of this discussion and no one has even thought about who actually owns a lot of the "local" supply houses! I have seen so many in the last several years that the "owner" is in name only-they are actually run by major corps that even dictate what their profit margins will be! These places also dictate from corporate in a lot of instances who you will have on your sales team.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

good point

most the mom /pop supplies have been bought out by consortiums

~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> the _we_ concept of collectivism that made this country great is slowly slipping away via the _me _generations inability to see beyond their own wallets folks....
> 
> 
> ~CS~


Wake up. It's long gone!


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> i'm unsure who your refering to


In a collectively responsible society, everyone must do their part. If the supply houses don't provide the service their customers need, their customers will be driven to find alternative resources.

In my opinion, that is what has happened. Also, experience will tell you that we generally need more than electrical supplies to do our jobs. It was a waste of collective resources to travel to/deal with a lumber yard, masonary supply, paint store etc. as well as an electrical supply house.

Times change and supply houses seem to be slow to adapt.



> All of this discussion and no one has even thought about who actually owns a lot of the "local" supply houses!


 
A few years ago, HD Supply bought out a local supplier here. I believe they had/have 4 local locations. And yeah, HD is *the* HD and I do order materials there as well as from my other resources. And, they still operate the supply house like a supply house so I'd rather go to a retail HD if I need to pick something up.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The American dream is for those who _believe_ in America & Americans Scott

*'We'* have a colorful history that _proves _it 

*'Me'* ideologues dream in black & white



~CS~


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I'll give you one of my supply houses phone number. Seems like some members would be willing to pay more for their material. Would you guys like to pay $20 more per 250' roll of 12-2 romex? That's exactly what they were doing to me. So spend your dollars where it makes you feel good. I'm going where I can save some money and put more in my pocket.:thumbup:


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

220/221 said:


> In a collectively responsible society, everyone must do their part. If the supply houses don't provide the service their customers need, their customers will be driven to find alternative resources.
> 
> In my opinion, that is what has happened. Also, experience will tell you that we generally need more than electrical supplies to do our jobs. It was a waste of collective resources to travel to/deal with a lumber yard, masonary supply, paint store etc. as well as an electrical supply house.
> 
> ...


All I was trying to point out is the fact that many of the locals are not so "local" anymore.... And HD is just another name on the list... I have worked in the utilities and heavy industrial end, and have seen quite a few good supply houses ruined service and product wise by corporate buyouts.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

220/221 said:


> In a collectively responsible society, everyone must do their part. If the supply houses don't provide the service their customers need, their customers will be driven to find alternative resources.
> 
> In my opinion, that is what has happened. Also, experience will tell you that we generally need more than electrical supplies to do our jobs. It was a waste of collective resources to travel to/deal with a lumber yard, masonary supply, paint store etc. as well as an electrical supply house.
> 
> ...


They bought out our main supply house also but they sold all of them.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...poWqAg&usg=AFQjCNGq6pczunN_ZWCy-MwZVnrVbfaOuQ


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

220/221 said:


> In a collectively responsible society, everyone must do their part. If the supply houses don't provide the service their customers need, their customers will be driven to find alternative resources.
> 
> In my opinion, that is what has happened. Also, experience will tell you that we generally need more than electrical supplies to do our jobs. It was a waste of collective resources to travel to/deal with a lumber yard, masonary supply, paint store etc. as well as an electrical supply house.
> 
> ...


 

imho, all you are describing is the race to the bottom 220/1 

what you need to realize is, you , i, and everyone else in this country are along for the ride

given the big box rate of proliferation, we'll all have either the choice of working_ for_ them or _with_ them, but never fully independent _from_ them in a generation

we can then foldly reminise about those _'easy $$$'_ days your posting

~CS~


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Bulldog1 said:


> They bought out our main supply house also but they sold all of them.
> 
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdm.com%2FHome-Depot-to-Sell-HD-Supply-for-10-3B-updated-%2FPARAMS%2Farticle%2F4179&ei=ENQIT4iiNajb0QHFpoWqAg&usg=AFQjCNGq6pczunN_ZWCy-MwZVnrVbfaOuQ


That was what I was wondering... I knew that at the time HD was doing buyouts here down south, it was HD SUPPLY... A totally different animal from HOME DEPOT. But from what I've seen, the way they handle their "locals" aren't any different from the other players in the game!


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

jmsmith said:


> That was what I was wondering... I knew that at the time HD was doing buyouts here down south, it was HD SUPPLY... A totally different animal from HOME DEPOT. But from what I've seen, the way they handle their "locals" aren't any different from the other players in the game!



Nothing really changed at my supply house except they are closed saturdays since HD sold them.


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## 1joeyj (Nov 21, 2011)

HD is like herpes, you can't get rid of them but, you can control the outbreak.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

let's cut to the chase then....>

[URL="http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/china-wants-to-construct-a-50-square-mile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idaho"][URL="http://[SIZE=3][URL]http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/china-wants-to-construct-a-50-square-mile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idaho[/URL][/SIZE][URL="http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/china-wants-to-construct-a-50-square-mile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idaho"][/URL]
[/URL][/URL]

you fella's ok with _'the strong survive'_ being foriegn nationals?

~CS~


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> given the big box rate of proliferation, we'll all have either the choice of working_ for_ them or _with_ them, but never fully independent _from_ them in a generation


 Sure we can. We can still go live off the land if we want. I think there will always be enough work for the professionals as well as the bottom feeders. 



> we can then foldly reminise about those _'easy $$$'_ days your posting


Actually, that post had nothing to do with HD. It was nice for a change not to have to struggle to make a buck. It seems like 90% of the work I do is more difficult than it should because of outside influences. Sometimes though, things just fall into place.


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## Electrical Student (Jun 6, 2011)

my 2 cents adds up to the guys running the supply houses just have to put in more time and work a little harder. I love going into mom and pop type supply houses, hardware stores and especially tackle shops. The couple dollar markup on their products bugs me a little but its the hours they usually keep that deters me from going to them. If your not open when i need my supplies well... I know that other store down the road is! 

My supply house closes at 5! 5pm. Thats it till tomorrow. Or even worse till monday and thats if theirs no goofy "holiday". Drives me nutts. They have stayed open a half hour or so for me on occasion but like i said, that other guy will gladly take my money till 10pm any night of the week.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Bulldog1 said:


> Nothing really changed at my supply house except they are closed saturdays since HD sold them.


Where I mostly have seen the change was mostly with the "outside sales" folks. Just about everyone I had dealt with have been replaced at one time or another because they could not meet profit margins and what-not. Some inside sales personnel, also. Sad thing is... In most cases it was people you could depend on no matter what! (Sorry for the little rant here!) It's just a crying shame!


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## yankeewired (Jul 3, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> There's competition everywhere, get over it.
> 
> If I were the owner of this site, or a mad, both home depot threads would be trash. They are one of the advertisers here that makes this site possible. Mods, do the right thing, make these threads disappear.



You're kidding me right? Who do you think you are? Stalin? Frankly this whole thread pisses me off. I don't have a right to voice my opinion because it may not be the same as yours or the owners or the advertisers or whoevers? This is America and I will say what I want and shop where I want and bitch about what I want to .


----------



## johnnyontheside (Aug 30, 2010)

yankeewired said:


> You're kidding me right? Who do you think you are? Stalin? Frankly this whole thread pisses me off. I don't have a right to voice my opinion because it may not be the same as yours or the owners or the advertisers or whoevers? This is America and I will say what I want and shop where I want and bitch about what I want to .


I thought it was one of his best post.
Don't f**k with the people that pay the bills.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

yankeewired said:


> You're kidding me right? Who do you think you are? Stalin? Frankly this whole thread pisses me off. I don't have a right to voice my opinion because it may not be the same as yours or the owners or the advertisers or whoevers? This is America and I will say what I want and shop where I want and bitch about what I want to .



No one told you to stick a cork in it, this is your first post in this thread, I'd calm down if I were you. 

"Stalin", that's funny.


----------



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

BryanMD said:


> Yeah.
> 
> ...is the one you still want and NEED to be there AND able to offer reasonable prices on the other
> non vanilla things the HD's etc won't and don't stock AND because they know you be willing to do
> ...


You don't need to edit my posts to reflect YOUR opinions. 

My city has two SH, and they both suck. I used to work at one, back in the day. I primarily do residential, and I can assure you that there is NOTHING my local supply houses can beat the prices of HD, Lowes, or online retailers on.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

yankeewired said:


> You're kidding me right? Who do you think you are? Stalin? Frankly this whole thread pisses me off. I don't have a right to voice my opinion because it may not be the same as yours or the owners or the advertisers or whoevers? This is America and I will say what I want and shop where I want and bitch about what I want to .


While I don't necessarily agree with McClary, I don't agree with you either. 

This is NOT America. This is a privately owned web site, and the rules are set by the owner of the site. Much as you'd like, your first amendment rights really do not apply here. 
Same as if you go into someone's home. If you start cursing and spitting on the floor you will likely be asked to leave because more than likely that is a violation of the house rules.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> The American dream is for those who _believe_ in America & Americans Scott
> 
> *'We'* have a colorful history that _proves _it
> 
> ...


The dream is over. Look around.

My deal is this, I am done with worrying about everything and everybody. I have done my share of it and it's hopeless. Politics is a joke and everything that happens stems from that. It isn't worth the stress and there ain't a damn thing that is going to change anything. It is worse than ever and is not going back the other way. I'm all about me, for better or worse. I don't want to end up like Harry or B4t. :laughing:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Well Scott, that's you opinion and you are definitely entitled to it. Thankfully there are some of us out here who feel differently. I think we still have a chance.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

The Lowes in my small city employs 50 (guessing)

They pay income taxes, and spend their money here.

People buy millions of $ of product(guessing) That money stays here.

Your Mom and Pop shop cant do that.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I don't want to end up like Harry or B4t. :laughing:


Sure Scott.. it would really suck for someone like you to care about a complete stranger who lost his job because the store he worked in for the last (20) years went out of business.. :no:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Awg-Dawg said:


> *The Lowes in my small city employs 50 (guessing)*
> 
> They pay income taxes, and spend their money here.
> 
> ...


Are you saying your local Lowes invest *all* the profits of the store back into your community? :blink:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Are you saying your local Lowes invest *all* the profits of the store back into your community? :blink:


 
No.

Are you saying the supply houses put ALL their profits back into their community?


----------



## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> let's cut to the chase then....>
> 
> http://[/FONThttp://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...ile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idahohttp://[SIZE=3][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=3...ile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idaho
> 
> ...


I'm not, yet they've done just that here in Vancouver. I'm a minority here


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Awg-Dawg said:


> No.
> 
> Are you saying the supply houses put ALL their profits back into their community?


Now we are going around in circles. I was questioning what YOU said about the millions of $$. What did you mean by _"That money stays here."_??




Either way, the supply houses in my area ARE owned by locals, so yes, the money does stay local.


----------



## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Now we are going around in circles. I was questioning what YOU said about the millions of $$. What did you mean by _"That money stays here."_??
> 
> Tax revenue. I assumed you knew what I meant.
> 
> ...


Ill take Lowes over your supply houses to fund my city.
Just so you know, I have nothing against supply houses,I just think their reign is over.IMHO


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> The dream is over. Look around.
> 
> My deal is this, I am done with worrying about everything and everybody. I have done my share of it and it's hopeless. Politics is a joke and everything that happens stems from that. It isn't worth the stress and there ain't a damn thing that is going to change anything. It is worse than ever and is not going back the other way. I'm all about me, for better or worse. I don't want to end up like Harry or B4t. :laughing:



I agree.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> The dream is over. Look around.
> 
> My deal is this, I am done with worrying about everything and everybody. I have done my share of it and it's hopeless. Politics is a joke and everything that happens stems from that. It isn't worth the stress and there ain't a damn thing that is going to change anything. It is worse than ever and is not going back the other way. I'm all about me, for better or worse. I don't want to end up like Harry or B4t. :laughing:


You don't want to end up like Harry or B4T, Really ?..:blink:

First of all i come here to learn about the Electrical trade so does B4T and so does just about every member on here.

B4T has many good post that i have learned something from and i thank him for that..:thumbup:

You do too and i thank you as well.

Here is the beef,, YOU come across as an Ale more than you need to.



> My deal is this, I am done with worrying about everything and everybody. I have done my share of it and it's hopeless. Politics is a joke and everything that happens stems from that.


Politics effects everything that we can and can not do,.

And it is our job to pay attention to everything politicians are doing to prevent us from making as much money to support our family's with out the Government telling us what to do under the cloak of it is for the children that we need a European type Government.

It is not a lost cause .

If it was 1776 then yes it would be harder to believe that Human beings can be FREE.:thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> I agree.


No 

you don't.................:laughing:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> No
> 
> you don't.................:laughing:



I don't agree with what he said about you and. B4T. for the record.

:thumbsup:


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

yankeewired said:


> You're kidding me right? Who do you think you are? Stalin? Frankly this whole thread pisses me off. I don't have a right to voice my opinion because it may not be the same as yours or the owners or the advertisers or whoevers? This is America and I will say what I want and shop *where I want and bitch about what I want to* .


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> I don't agree with what he said about you and. B4T. for the record.
> 
> :thumbsup:


:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Ok, show of hands. I bet the guys who hate on the big box stores, just love the big box guns and ammo stores right?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> Ok, show of hands. I bet the guys who hate on the big box stores, just love the big box guns and ammo stores right?


:yes::yes::yes::yes::laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Ok, show of hands. I bet the guys who hate on the big box stores, just love the big box guns and ammo stores right?


I really have no use for guns.. but I would love to own a 50 cal. sniper rifle..


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> I really have no use for guns.. but I would love to own a 50 cal. sniper rifle..



I want a 65 foot Bertram with a tuna tower. Be nice if Lowe's had em. I could get 10% off with that fact over at Home Depot.....:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> I really have no use for guns.. but I would love to own a 50 cal. sniper rifle..


Just don't let your GF use it...:laughing::laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So, we have a majority here who bow down to corporate aquistions , and monopolistic proliferation , right up to and including foreign nations outright _ownership_ of it all

We have a few that would have the 1st Amd basically bought by them, which not only proves free speach isn't free, it's _literally_ on the auction block for the highest bidder

We have a prevailing _survival of the fittest_ attitude , despite the skewed playing field , with a self imposed juggernaut death sentence easily projected from the exponetial infiltration of the last 20 or so years forward

We have Constitutional fundamentalists who would , given the insiduos machinations of the _too big to fail_ contigents ability to suck us all down the drain , even to the extent of a 3rd world lifestyle, insistently cloak it all under the guise of capitalsim

We have a majority that subscribes to all the above occuring by entities who have absolutley _no allegiance_ to this country, dismissing patriots _who _do believe in this country as dreamers, insisiting one should line their own pockets first and foremost

excuse me, i think i need to puke....

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> So, we have a majority here who bow down to corporate aquistions , and monopolistic proliferation , right up to and including foreign nations outright _ownership_ of it all
> 
> We have a few that would have the 1st Amd basically bought by them, which not only proves free speach isn't free, it's _literally_ on the auction block for the highest bidder
> 
> ...



And here we have a guy with no answers only cryptic posts bitching about how much everything sucks. :laughing:


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

two (one would think obvious) words BBQ

Free Traitors....

*‘Free Traitors’ Blamed for U.S. Financial Collapse*
__
By Alejandro Lichauco​As one watches with unavoidable sympathy the anguish and desperate cry of the American electorate for relief from their deepening impoverishment, one must at the same time decry their failure to gasp that their plight has been brought about by a traitor class. And who constitutes that class and wherein lies its treason?​ 
That class is the group of free traders and free market ideologues who have dominated the domestic and foreign policy of the United States since the last world war. And wherein lies their treason?​ 
Their treason lies in the ideology which they had imposed on a chain of captive U.S. governments and which culminated in what is known as globalization. If you find this bizarre and difficult to believe then just ponder on the answer which former Federal Reserve Bank Chairman Alan Greenspan gave to a recent U.S. Senate inquiry. When asked by the investigating committee on what went wrong and why the there was a Wall
Street meltdown, Greenspan’s answer was: “My flawed ideology.” ​ 
Meaning the ideology of the free market. All through his career (at the Fed), which spanned 20 years, Greenspan admitted that his policies and acts were dictated by his ideology: The ideology of the free market. It’s an ideology which Greenspan said dictated that the state, or government, should stay out of the economy and shouldn’t attempt to regulate private business—particularly the banks and Wall Street.​ 

Years ago, the U.S. Congress had already sensed that there was something wrong with the lending operation of the banks, and asked Greenspan to regulate it. But Greenspan didn’t and trusted fully, so he claimed, in the dogma of his ideology that the market doesn’t commit mistakes; and if it does then the market can be trusted to correct its own mistakes.​ 
That kind of thinking was what destroyed America’s industrial base because it was an intrinsic part of the ideology that the government shouldn’t regulate imports to protect domestic industries. And so, imports flooded the American market until they destroyed just about every industry worth the name. Years ago, American women complained that they couldn’t find American-made bras in the market.​ 
In a year’s time, the American automobile industry—already a skeleton of its former self—will be gone. GM, Ford and Chrysler, which once dominated the world car industry, are now on the verge of bankruptcy. As for the steel industry, there isn’t any such thing now in the U.S., and it was the steel and car industries that constituted the core of America’s industrial power.​ 
How did all this come about? How did the U.S. come to adopt and practice for so long an ideology which killed the American economy—at one time the only economy in the world worth talking about?​ 
A traitor class—that’s what American patriots and nationalists like Pat Buchanan, once a senior consultant to President Reagan and a Republican presidential candidate, maintain.​ 
In the 1990s, Buchanan wrote a book he entitled _The Great Betrayal_. The main theme of the book was that the American economy was being handled by a class—the class of free traders—which didn’t believe in national loyalties and whose loyalty lay primarily, if not exclusively, with the multinational corporations.​ 
Over the years, this class of American-made traitors, consisting in the main of multinational CEOs (chief executive officers) managed to convince just about every U.S. administration that the U.S. government shouldn’t do anything to protect America’s domestic industries from the flood of cheap imports. That would be a violation of the free market doctrine, so the traitors argued. And with enormous lobby money behind them, it wasn’t too difficult to convince those who manned the strategic high places of the U.S. government to take to the free market, free trade doctrine.​ 
Another American patriot, Ross Perot, years ago complained of how former American bureaucrats negotiating America’s trade agreements eventually wound up as lobbyists for foreign governments determined to flood the American market with cheap imports produced in their home countries. With America’s industrial class gone, the principal source of prime borrowers evaporated. Banks thus found themselves with money oozing out of their ears and they didn’t have any prime borrowers to lend to, and so they wound up lending to sub-prime borrowers—borrowers without the ability to pay. ​ 
That’s how a treasonous ideology, weaved by an American traitor class, broke America down and reduced it to a miserable Third World state.​ 




~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

another would be VAT>>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT#VAT_Rates

note , *China 17%, USA 0%* (not to be confused with state sales taxes)

how's that workin' out for American manufacturers?

~CS~


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> Well Scott, that's you opinion and you are definitely entitled to it. Thankfully there are some of us out here who feel differently. I think we still have a chance.


That nice. If that works for you good but don't piss on me because I see it differently. 



B4T said:


> Sure Scott.. it would really suck for someone like you to care about a complete stranger who lost his job because the store he worked in for the last (20) years went out of business.. :no:



Not at all what I meant or said but it happens all the time. Ever heard of Zayre? Bradlees? Jordan Marsh? Lechemere sales? on and on and on. You'd think a Fox News zealot would understand and support a free market economy. be stagnant and die or adapt and survive. I'm sure there are a few beeper companies that were smart enough to know they were a dead technology and did somthing about it to survive. :thumbsup:



HARRY304E said:


> You don't want to end up like Harry or B4T, Really ?..:blink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It isn't 1776, and people should wake up and realize that. It's a global society/economy in 2012. This is not ye Olde America and hell it's not even 1976. I'm not going to pretend like everybody here, that I have all the answers. I know I don't and I won't allow the biased media to tell me what the answers are. I will be looking out for me. end of rant, I have to go run and then go to Lowes. Red White and Blue Lowes. :laughing:

Edit to add... Romney 2012


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Not at all what I meant or said but it happens all the time. Ever heard of Zayre? Bradlees? Jordan Marsh? Lechemere sales? on and on and on.


Or even the 20 stores that Lowes closed.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> two (one would think obvious) words BBQ


You really sound like a loon, now I know you will take that with pride, like you are some sort of revolutionary that sees the future but it is much simpler than that. Your just a loon.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> And here we have a guy with no answers only cryptic posts bitching about how much everything sucks. :laughing:


i'm more than capable of stayin' on topic , and introducing the underlying elements for debate

that you'll find the issue not as black / white as you may wish is not any fault of mine

i'm looking for those with the hp to digest / respond 

~CS~


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> You really sound like a loon, now I know you will take that with pride, like you are some sort of revolutionary that sees the future but it is much simpler than that. Your just a loon.


One word.... Vermont


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> You really sound like a loon, now I know you will take that with pride, like you are some sort of revolutionary that sees the future but it is much simpler than that. Your just a loon.


non sequiturs are below you sir.....

~CS~


----------



## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

Awg-Dawg said:


> The Lowes in my small city employs 50 (guessing)
> 
> They pay income taxes, and spend their money here.
> 
> ...


 
I will jump in on this post. First, Lowes HD, & Walmart always ask for tax breaks when negotiating to build one in the towns/cities. Can the little guy get these??? They may also talk the Town into leasing the land to build on, like they did in a town nearby here. 

Then if they don't think they are making enough- they close it done & leave with the building left behind & the workers left without a job-literally overnight! This happened just recently at Lowes here and in other towns across the US. 
This same town has a Walmart that was caught with illegal immigrints working at night. So much for supporting the town. I knew workers there that said they had sign in the back rooms to stomp out a nearby department store. 

While they were here for a few short years- they put out of business a lumberyard & some hardware store. Now the town has nothing.
That money these store make doesn't stay in that town whereas the little guy's does.!! 

I have a hard time going to these big store because of they are all about "me" as someone on here keeps preaching. That is what is happening to our economy & they are the big part of it.
,


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> non sequiturs are below you sir.....
> 
> ~CS~


I call it like I see it, your rants are getting longer and more incomprehensible each day.

You seem to think if we don't understand you it is our fault and I am saying it is your writing style that is the problem not the members trying to read them.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

*QQ*



BBQ said:


> I call it like I see it, your rants are getting longer and more incomprehensible each day.
> 
> You seem to think if we don't understand you it is our fault and I am saying it is your writing style that is the problem not the members trying to read them.


 Can the ad hominens , and stick to the issue at hand then BBQ

I'll take it you've no problem with the writing skills of _others_, have the courtesy to respond to the material posted

on topic>


http://www.skeptically.org/polrec/id11.html

A summary of the confluence of principle deleterious forces:

*1). The trend towards decrease in durable goods production and the concomitant increases in services. *

*2). The outsourcing jobs both unskilled and now skilled.*

*3). The failure of our politicians to place domestic prosperity before the short-term goals of business. *

*4). The deficit federal financing with its increasing debt load as a percentage of federal budget expenditures, which rising interest rates will exacerbate. *

*5). The gross imbalance of trade going back over 2 decades, which entails an every greater percentage of U.S. assets being in foreign hands.*

*6). The ever increasing overall inability of the American people to understand that their interests are much different than the interests of business and as a consequence to exert sufficient political clout to compel the politicians to better attend to their needs.**[1]* 

*7). The lack of tariff barriers which would protect U.S. jobs and a reasonable standard of living for the masses*.


~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm off to do some work..... 

as i have been accused of b*tching _without_ solution , i have posted information pertinent to this threads OP

while the solution is _obviously_ debatable, the best way to one is to _understand_ the issue to begin with 

 i expect that you'll be forwarding your response to the material* i've posted , pertinent to _issue_ 

please have the courtesy to distinguish message /messenger Mr BBQ

thanx in advance

~CS~
_*(oodles more out there btw)_


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> I'll take it you've no problem with the writing skills of _others__..._


Then you take it all completely wrong... 
especially if you consider this presentation in any way helpful.

It's the speakers job to make themselves understood by the audience they are addressing. If they aren't understood, or worse if they alienate themselves and their ideas, then they only have themselves to blame.

This is why Sarah Palin was (is?) favored over Jon Huntsman.


----------



## Mikenra (Dec 16, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> There's competition everywhere, get over it.
> 
> If I were the owner of this site, or a mad, both home depot threads would be trash. They are one of the advertisers here that makes this site possible. Mods, do the right thing, make these threads disappear.


Yea!!! No free expression of thought or opinions about companies giving us money!


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

BryanMD said:


> It's the speakers job to make themselves understood by the audience they are addressing. If they aren't understood, or worse if they alienate themselves and their ideas, then they only have themselves to blame.


BINGO!

Well put.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> non sequiturs are below you sir.....
> 
> ~CS~



You should do a poll...


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BryanMD said:


> Then you take it all completely wrong...
> especially if you consider this presentation in any way helpful.
> 
> .


I _'other writers'_ i'm referring to are the information i've posted 

If those sources or writers are not understandable, you may _address_ them as such

Other's can be found that _you_, or the participants of this debate may digest easier

Presentationin the form of links _is_ helpful btw

further, posters who don't understand each other are free to _ask_ for an explanation

they are free to disregard that courtesy, and lower themselves into the _'gee, can't understand you'_ spit fest as well

this is what is commonly referred to as intellectual dishonesty on the 'net btw

they are usually victims of their own volition , purposely killing threads that could achieve fruition, alienating quality posters who would do so

~CS~


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> I _'other writers'_ i'm referring to are the information i've posted
> 
> If those sources or writers are not understandable, you may _address_ them as such
> 
> ...



:wacko:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> I 'other writers' i'm referring to are the information i've posted
> 
> If those sources or writers are not understandable, you may address them as such
> 
> ...


Dude, what is the point if no one has a clue WTF you are trying to say?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Dude, what is the point if no one has a clue WTF you are trying to say?


Because his font wasn't annoying enough.. so he decided to string a bunch of words together that make no point other than to avoid his posts.. :no:


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Is there a poster in the forum interested in the 'protest HD' topic, and do they wish to read links related to the issue ?

~CS~


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Is there a poster in the forum interested in the 'protest HD' topic, and do they wish to read links related to the issue ?
> 
> ~CS~


Is that was this is about? :laughing: I love Home Depot, one stop shopping. Lumber, wire, screws, illegal labor pool. What's not to love?! :thumbup:


----------



## LowesDepot (Aug 22, 2010)

The "Land of the Free", "The Home of the Brave". 

A Democracy. Governmental separation of powers. The Constitution. The Bill of Rights.

Anyone can become President. The "melting pot" of the planets
inhabitants.

Mom, apple pie, the flag!

Shame, shame, shame on all of you!


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Sitting here doing estimates. Getting pricing from Home Depot.com!


----------



## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Only one local supply house in my county, usually have to go from there to Lowe's to finish filling an order. But I do go there 1st, except for Romex price is usually better, I know the countermen,etc. 

Lowes has a way better return policy than locals, and of course more hours open per week.

So my question is, should I be figuring a percentage of the money I spend at Lowe's and mailing an extra check to local supplier every month? According to what I've heard, this would help our local economy.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> , i have posted information pertinent to this threads


 
I skimmed thru, saw "Pat Buccanan" and stopped trying to understand anything else. I don't know much about how things really work but I do know an idiot when I see one.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

LowesDepot said:


> A Democracy. Governmental separation of powers. The Constitution. The Bill of Rights.
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> LowesDepot said:
> 
> 
> > A Democracy. Governmental separation of powers. The Constitution. The Bill of Rights.
> ...


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> This I will totally agree on.
> 
> I have a HD and Lowes, and WM and Sam's, within minutes of me. I also have a chain of a small family owned lumber yard/home center. The latter is thriving due to the disgust of the poor service and quality of material you get at the home centers.
> That said, these are few and far between and from what I have seen this is the exception rather than the rule.


I just reread much of this thread. This one popped out. It pretty much sums up the free market and the way it should be.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> chicken steve said:
> 
> 
> > I believe those corporations employee citizens.
> ...


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Steve,

You did not answer the question.


----------



## Outdoorguy (Sep 5, 2011)

I would rather boycott all junk made in China or any other foreign country.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> well Mr BBQ
> 
> If this isn't too broad a _concept_
> 
> ...


So you can't or won't answer a simple question.

Pretty much what I expected.


----------



## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Let's take the OP at his word, and assume that HD is somehow in the wrong.

Is it ONLY HD, or is Lowes guilty as well? What about the other box stores? Or, is the OP's quest only against HD? 

If it is only against HD, then his points are dishonest- as they apply to the others as well. If he's against all, he should not have singled out HD.

As I see it, HD provides a needed service- as evidenced by their commercial success. 

"Ma and Pa" stores are far from innocent in this matter. They've been quite happy to use every means, fair or foul, to restrict competition. Look at the typical 'strip mall' lease; there are usually stipulations regarding competing businesses. "Ma and Pa" have also been quite adamant about selling what they prefer to sell, rather than what I might wish to buy.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

brian john said:


> Steve,
> 
> You did not answer the question.


BBQ is not going to _accept _my answer Brian

He has, so far amounted to nothing more that non sequiturs & ad homeniens for anything _i've_ offered

instead, i'm informing BBQ that he (et all) can _easily_ find the anwsers he seeks , and post the link(s) he desires

unless of course, he really isn't _interested_ in an answer

~CS~


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)




----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Just bought a bunch of romex from HD. Saved some money.:thumbsup::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbup:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Just bought a bunch of romex from HD. Saved some money.:thumbsup::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbup:


F'n commie :laughing: Thanks for ruining America. Hope you're happy.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> F'n commie :laughing: Thanks for ruining America. Hope you're happy.


Ruining America one, 250' roll of 14-2 at a time.:thumbsup::laughing:

I hope this is offset by the apprentice I hired last year?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Ruining America one, 250' roll of 14-2 at a time.:thumbsup::laughing:
> 
> I hope this is offset by the apprentice I hired last year?


I bet the apprentice is an illegal alien.

Should we take a poll?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> BBQ is not going to _accept _my answer Brian
> 
> He has, so far amounted to nothing more that non sequiturs & ad homeniens for anything _i've_ offered
> 
> ...


I would have to actually understand what you have offered.

Try it once, say it in your own, clear and concise words what you have against the big box stores.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I bet the apprentice is an illegal alien.
> 
> Should we take a poll?



No. He's an American citizen. No poll needed.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

A lot of electrical fittings are made in india.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> A lot of electrical fittings are made in india.


A lot of spammers live in India.:no:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I just reread this thread. I have to say, I really amuse myself! :thumbup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Protest HD? Yeah, ok. :lol:

BTW a lot of supply houses are nothing but big faceless corporate giants now. About half the ones in my area are, anyway.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Protest HD? Yeah, ok. :lol:
> 
> BTW a lot of supply houses are nothing but big faceless corporate giants now. About half the ones in my area are, anyway.



Sounds good cletis....:laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Protest HD? Yeah, ok. :lol:
> 
> BTW a lot of supply houses are nothing but big faceless corporate giants now. About half the ones in my area are, anyway.


My "Local" supply house... Rexel, Headquarters: Paris France. Home Depot, headquarters: Atlanta Georgia


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

If HD has their own crews, who Masters these stores? Does each store have a Master?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> My "Local" supply house... Rexel, Headquarters: Paris France. Home Depot, headquarters: Atlanta Georgia



Northeast Distributors which is probably the largest supplier in New England next to Rexel is owned by Sonepar, also based in Paris.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> My "Local" supply house... Rexel, Headquarters: Paris France. Home Depot, headquarters: Atlanta Georgia


Rexel recently made a deal to acquire Platt Electric Supply, one of the larger distributors in the region (over 100 branches throughout the West). They're takin' over!

Actually I'm looking forward to increased readily available product lines and distributorships. Platt's main deals are Eaton (sometimes okay, sometimes crap, depends on what you're getting) and ABB, which I like just fine if I need IEC type controls.


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## Staxmaloney (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm not really for or against HD. I think the problem lies with the manufacturers. When I was in high school I worked at a mom and pop guitar store. And then the Internet sales boom and guitar center happened. All of a sudden the box box music stores were selling products for less than what it cost us to get them in the door. In one case they were selling a very popular model of guitar for almost 75 dollars less than our COST. Not counting the shipping. Eventually the manufacturers enacted MAP, (minimum advertised pricing, if you're not familiar) which forbade any distributor, online or otherwise, from advertising an item for less than a set amount. This really helped level the playing field in that industry. Is it inconceivable for this industry to do the same thing? Think about it, HD's buying power wouldn't be an issue. Sure, there margins might be bigger, but they wouldn't be able to undercut the small supply houses by a ton and they supply houses will be able to sell at the same price as HD, but may have slightly smaller margins. It seems everyone would win.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

id rather go to home depot than some of the crappy supply houses we have around here. However, my boss is an idiot and requires we get materials from these lame places.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Yeled said:


> I agree, but it still makes me mad to see that they charge $99 to install a ceiling fan, and people use their services just because it's there.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2


They need to find a sucker who carries liabilty and comp insurance and license if applicable to jurisdiction. It's not HD, blame the sucker who's willing to install that ceiling fan for $75 because you know HD is tagging at least $25 to it.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Staxmaloney said:


> I'm not really for or against HD. I think the problem lies with the manufacturers. When I was in high school I worked at a mom and pop guitar store. And then the Internet sales boom and guitar center happened. All of a sudden the box box music stores were selling products for less than what it cost us to get them in the door. In one case they were selling a very popular model of guitar for almost 75 dollars less than our COST. Not counting the shipping. Eventually the manufacturers enacted MAP, (minimum advertised pricing, if you're not familiar) which forbade any distributor, online or otherwise, from advertising an item for less than a set amount. This really helped level the playing field in that industry. Is it inconceivable for this industry to do the same thing? Think about it, HD's buying power wouldn't be an issue. Sure, there margins might be bigger, but they wouldn't be able to undercut the small supply houses by a ton and they supply houses will be able to sell at the same price as HD, but may have slightly smaller margins. It seems everyone would win.


my stars! someone with a brain! i'm inspired to song!

*Each time we have an install*
_*It almost breaks my heart*_
_*'Cause I'm so afraid , of all these chinese parts*_

_*Each night I ask the stars up above*_
_*Why must I be a lectrician in lowes*_

_*One day I feel so happy*_
_*Next day I feel so sad*_
_*I guess I'll learn to take the good with the bad*_

_*'Cause each night I ask the stars up above*_
_*Why must I be a lectrician in lowes*_

_*I cried monopoly , but my Congressdude knew*_
_*He'd be the lonely one , if he said it was true*_
_*Well if you want to make me buy*_
_*were the 'por folk always do*_
_*just keep that 'ol MAP high*_
_*and we'll all go on loving you*_

_*Each night I ask the stars up above*_
_*Why must I be a lectrican in lowes*_

~CS~


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## Staxmaloney (Jun 8, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> my stars! someone with a brain! i'm inspired to song!
> 
> Each time we have an install
> It almost breaks my heart
> ...


Rofl. I would copyright that ASAP.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

i can't help being the class clown Stax, what i would like to do is hear more objective market overviews like you posed.....~CS~


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## Staxmaloney (Jun 8, 2012)

Bottom line: you can't blame people, especially in this day and age, for wanting to spend less money. As long as the big box stores aren't bound by any kind of price agreement, they will always be able to undercut the little guys. It's elementary economics. Home Depot is a business. They are there to make money, just like you and I. I for one don't take offense to them doing what they have to do to succeed because you, me and everyone else would do the same thing. In fact, I would go so far as to say the $99 installation is a good thing. Why? Because it breeds competition, at least at an economic level, and competition is good for business. It's what makes it thrive. The quality of an HD installation may be less, but most people know they get what they pay for. If I need a no frills ceiling fan, I'd call HD. If I need a state of the art HVAC system, Id call an electrician. There will always be a market for higher end, quality work. If there wasn't a market for it, we wouldn't have ferraris or Klein tools. All we would have would be Kia and Commercial Electric.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

lemme see if i can spark it up....


*Control Over Price*


A monopolist is by definition the only supplier of a particular good or service in a particular market. The definition of the relevant "market" is often a subject of intense debate. You might wonder, for example, whether the only retailer of widgets in Minneapolis is a monopolist, given the ease of travel to St. Paul (where there may be other widget sellers) or, for many consumers, the ease of ordering widgets online from anywhere. In principle, a monopolist has some control over its output and its price, in contrast to the seller in a competitive market.



Read more: Monopolistic Pricing Strategies | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8452835_monopolistic-pricing-strategies.html#ixzz1yeOFGlTZ



always good to check out the nieghbors market protectants as well>

http://www.tmf-vat.com/vat.html?gclid=COuC6vOa5bACFQjf4AodGRbg0A

some pros/ cons from the bowels of the 'net>

http://www.governing.com/columns/public-money/The-Value-Added-Tax-.html

~CS~​


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Staxmaloney said:


> Bottom line: you can't blame people, especially in this day and age, for wanting to spend less money. As long as the big box stores aren't bound by any kind of price agreement, they will always be able to undercut the little guys. It's elementary economics. Home Depot is a business. They are there to make money, just like you and I. I for one don't take offense to them doing what they have to do to succeed because you, me and everyone else would do the same thing. In fact, I would go so far as to say the $99 installation is a good thing. Why? Because it breeds competition, at least at an economic level, and competition is good for business. It's what makes it thrive. The quality of an HD installation may be less, but most people know they get what they pay for. If I need a no frills ceiling fan, I'd call HD. If I need a state of the art HVAC system, Id call an electrician. There will always be a market for higher end, quality work. If there wasn't a market for it, we wouldn't have ferraris or Klein tools. All we would have would be Kia and Commercial Electric.


agreed, but the jist is a level playing field, a company, corporation, or even country that had _no_ market protectants will be eaten alive by those that _do_ employ them Stax

~CS~


----------



## Staxmaloney (Jun 8, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> agreed, but the jist is a level playing field, a company, corporation, or even country that had no market protectants will be eaten alive by those that do employ them Stax
> 
> ~CS~


Absolutely true. That goes back to my earlier comment about MAP. A distributor sells 100 of something to Mom 'n' Pop 'lectric at $1 each. They can only afford to carry the overhead on 100 pieces. At the same time, the same distributor sells 1000 of the same unit to HD at (assuming a price break for quantity, which they almost certainly get) $.80 each. HD is able to absorb the overhead due to their size, obviously. Now, at the same percentage markup, let's say 25 percent, HD is easily able to beat Mom 'n' Pops price all because of the quantity price break and no MAP. This isn't the fault of HD. They are only doing the thing that makes the most business sense. I say force the manufacturer/distributor to enforce a MAP, that way HD and Mom and Pop can (in theory) sell the same product for the same price. That's fair for everyone.


----------



## Staxmaloney (Jun 8, 2012)

But, as it often the case, the way things are and the way things ought to be are two totally different scenarios.


----------



## Staxmaloney (Jun 8, 2012)

And as a separate argument: I don't buy the " don't buy from big box stores, pay a little more and buy local" argument. In the end, the only person who it hurts is the consumer. Think about it, I buy '500 ft of romex for 100 bucks less at HD than from the local supply house. That means it costs the customer 100 bucks less (unless somebody is being dishonest). If I buy the romex at the local place for the extra money, that has to be absorbed by somebody. Whether its me or the customer, it costs somebody money and only the local shop benefits. You're just robbing from Peter to pay Paul.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Capitalism, imho, is an animal that'll eat itself when left alone Stax

that's what we're witness to in this economy

unfortunatley, the large corps with the influential $$$'s can buy legislative favor, be it regulation or deregulation

this constitues that great divide, or disparity we're living in, worst in 90 odd yrs here

imho (and i'm rather opinionated) , jump starting this economy means the little guy has the same capitalist chance, bells whistles and all, that the big boys have

that what made this country great (again mho)

the mother of invention may be necessity, but the father surely was a fledgling enterpenure 

i often feel this concept orphaned , dismissed as nonesense by the captains of industry who refuse to play fair, to the point where competition in the true capitalist sense would light a fire under them

HD has cheap romex?

i want to import a fleet of it on their no-vat no-tariff-off shore tax rate status


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I can only count half of the rivets holding that ship together. Can you find a bigger picture?

-John


----------



## Staxmaloney (Jun 8, 2012)

I honestly have no clue if romex is cheaper there. I just pulled that example out of you know where. And you hit the nail on the head with the whole no tariff tax thing. NAFTA is another thread all together. Again, hard to blame a company for going overseas when it's a huge advantage to them. Not that that's right, but it isn't the company's fault, it's the laws fault.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Big John said:


> I can only count half of the rivets holding that ship together. Can you find a bigger picture?
> 
> -John


sorry 'bout that

~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Staxmaloney said:


> > And you hit the nail on the head with the whole no tariff tax thing. NAFTA is another thread all together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I'm a HUGE Home Depot fan. Always have been. 

They made my life SO much easier. Supply houses suck. In the old days, they treated me like crap and charged whatever they wanted at the counter. Since the Home Depot has come into play, the supply houses are trying to be all friendly but they STILL try to screw you on pricing occasionally.

The supply houses do deliver next day/free, no minimum, so they do get the bulk of my business.

I don't care if they offer installation. It will be done by the bottom feeders and I don't consider them competition.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

somewhat anecdotal 220/1, but then the entire ecomnic snafu is due to a group myoptism, with a touch of munchenhausen......

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> somewhat anecdotal 220/1, but then the entire ecomnic snafu is due to a group myoptism, with a touch of munchenhausen......
> 
> ~CS~


If only everyone could see things as clearly as steve the world would be perfect.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> If only everyone could see things as clearly as steve the world would be perfect.


perfect what..?





 
~CS~


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I'm a HUGE Home Depot fan. Always have been.
> 
> They made my life SO much easier. Supply houses suck. In the old days, they treated me like crap and charged whatever they wanted at the counter. Since the Home Depot has come into play, the supply houses are trying to be all friendly but they STILL try to screw you on pricing occasionally.


That is my biggest gripe with suppliers. You have no idea what you're going to get charged for something on any given day. They always blame the discrepancies on the "matrix pricing."  I think you should pay the same price on your account whether you buy at the counter or use an inside sales person. You shouldn't have to always be chasing down people at the SH about incorrect/ out of whack pricing either.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I think you should pay the same price on your account whether you buy at the counter or use an inside sales person.


It would be nice but it is what it is, even for high volume buyers.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> perfect what..?


I don't know steve but it seems there is not a subject on this earth you don't have bitch about, it kind of becomes meaningless.

Can you point one of your positive posts? Maybe I missed them.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It would be nice but it is what it is, even for high volume buyers.


Hence why I hate supply houses. I consider them a necessary evil. :laughing:


----------



## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Peter D said:


> That is my biggest gripe with suppliers. You have no idea what you're going to get charged for something on any given day. They always blame the discrepancies on the "matrix pricing."  I think you should pay the same price on your account whether you buy at the counter or use an inside sales person. You shouldn't have to always be chasing down people at the SH about incorrect/ out of whack pricing either.


Peter, once a year I sit with my supplier and get a "negotiated pricing" list . This means I will not pay more than their quoted price for anything no matter if they change brands or if the price goes up, if the price goes down I still get the savings. You might ask about this at your supplier also. This does not include wire though as this is a more volatile market.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I don't know steve but it seems there is not a subject on this earth you don't have bitch about, it kind of becomes meaningless.
> 
> Can you point one of your positive posts? Maybe I missed them.


you confuse b*tch with objectivity BBQ

look at the posts here

_subjective_ - gee, this really works for me! 

_objective_- what if it doesn't work out in the long run

ergo, your answer sir....

~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> That is my biggest gripe with suppliers. You have no idea what you're going to get charged for something on any given day. They always blame the discrepancies on the "matrix pricing."  I think you should pay the same price on your account whether you buy at the counter or use an inside sales person. You shouldn't have to always be chasing down people at the SH about incorrect/ out of whack pricing either.





BBQ said:


> It would be nice but it is what it is, even for high volume buyers.


That's why they are losing good customers. I'm small potatoes but there are lots of us small potatoes. They are operating in dinosaur mode. It's 2012 and I can't log in to an account and and pay my invoices. 

Less hours, less material on the shelf, and less visits by me and guys like me.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> you confuse b*tch with objectivity BBQ
> 
> look at the posts here
> 
> ...


:wacko:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> That's why they are losing good customers. I'm small potatoes but there are lots of us small potatoes. They are operating in dinosaur mode. It's 2012 and I can't log in to an account and and pay my invoices.
> 
> Less hours, less material on the shelf, and less visits by me and guys like me.


Yup, and more trips to Depot and Lowes to make up for it. The big boxes are more expensive on a lot of stuff, but when you factor in time wasted with supply houses it washes out in the end.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> That's why they are losing good customers. I'm small potatoes but there are lots of us small potatoes. They are operating in dinosaur mode. It's 2012 and I can't log in to an account and and pay my invoices....


 We have one supplier that still rings everything up by flipping through 3-ring binders until they find the stock item, and then writing each price down on a carbon-copy receipt. :blink: It's a great place, has a ton of stuff nobody else carries, but at that rate, I'm waiting for them to go under.

-John


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Yup, and more trips to Depot and Lowes to make up for it. The big boxes are more expensive on a lot of stuff, but when you factor in time wasted with supply houses it washes out in the end.


I was trying to explain this to the guys at the branch the other day. They said it's not them it's the big guys.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> They said it's not them it's the big guys.


I don't buy that and I'll tell you why. I used to work for Electrical Wholesalers about 10 years ago and the branch is only as good as the manager and salespeople. We worked hard to keep our regular customers happy with limited amounts of manpower (remember this was during the housing boom when things were nuts). We didn't have a great deal of control over pricing but we sure had control of what we kept in stock. Maintaining proper width and deptfh of inventory is a full time job at a supply house and if the guys aren't on top of that, the branch suffers. Now the supply houses are all lazy and just transfer everything in from the warehouse.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> . It's 2012 and I can't log in to an account and and pay my invoices.
> 
> Less hours, less material on the shelf, and less visits by me and guys like me.


Exactly. We should be ordering directly from their system online. We do of course email orders but it usually gets screwed up on their end because it doesn't go straight into the system. The have to re"_write_" it up and that's where mistakes start.

People did business over the phone in the olden days. Most supply houses are still stuck there.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont have a problem with home depot. If i have to do a post light, i would rather get my cement, sono tube, and what ever else i need in one stop shop... I go there alot for my house too... They have good prices on some stuff but they definatly get you on other stuff... its not all cheaper there guys... HD wanted 32 bucks for a UF splice kit, Monarch electric has it for 11 bucks.. And the same goes for a lot of stuff. If i do a year end wire purchase I usually go to HD...In the long run i save several hundred bucks..


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

The big box stores only carries what sells, the supplyhouse carries evrything well almost everything. Simple things like a regular single receptacle plate are not stocked at HD, I needed one for a AC receptacle on a w/m box. All HD sold are goof sizes for that. What's good about the box stores are the return policies, something supplyhouses are rather miserable about. Anyone who shops the box stores exclusively is a fool, flip side anyone who shops supplyhouses exclusively is a fool. A mix from both is the best.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

If i go to home depot, its usually becuase i need something that the supply house doesnt have, like venting material, flex duct, certain buiding materials, (and as much as it hurts me to occasionall have to pay for these) sheet rock screws, cement.... and if i happen to need something electric i will just pick it up there, but i never go there with a big electrical shopping list... I basically give one supply house all my business now.... I used to go to cooper too, but im not sure what what is going on with them.... they seem to be really expensive now...


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

captkirk said:


> If i go to home depot, its usually becuase i need something that the supply house doesnt have, like venting material, flex duct, certain buiding materials, (and as much as it hurts me to occasionall have to pay for these) sheet rock screws, cement.... and if i happen to need something electric i will just pick it up there, but i never go there with a big electrical shopping list... I basically give one supply house all my business now.... I used to go to cooper too, but im not sure what what is going on with them.... they seem to be really expensive now...


You got to keep that quiet or else you might end like me getting called a handyman.....I'll be damned if I got buy blue carlon boxes and HD. But if it's a job i need to jump on and HD is 10 minutes away versuse a half hour to supplyhouse. Hack boxes it will be.I'll buy my panels and romex at HD,lowes. Would I buy meter pans, conduit, fittings, large wire ,etc there. Hell no unless it's an emergency .


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> You got to keep that quiet or else you might end like me getting called a handyman.....I'll be damned if I got buy blue carlon boxes and HD. But if it's a job i need to jump on and HD is 10 minutes away versuse a half hour to supplyhouse. Hack boxes it will be.I'll buy my panels and romex at HD,lowes. Would I buy meter pans, conduit, fittings, large wire ,etc there. Hell no unless it's an emergency .


 You actually loose out on fittings and boxes at home depot.. they sell them by the piece at a larger mark up than most supply houses.. With regular stuff like small emt fittings i buy them by the box and just keep it in my garage..


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> That's why they are losing good customers. I'm small potatoes but there are lots of us small potatoes. They are operating in dinosaur mode. It's 2012 and I can't log in to an account and and pay my invoices.
> 
> Less hours, less material on the shelf, and less visits by me and guys like me.


 tell me about it....I laugh at their computer system.... It almost looks like an old DOS system, I wish i could log on and order stuff.... and they wonder where all the customers are.....


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Time to boycott HD and shop at Hardware Hank's....:laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

captkirk said:


> You actually loose out on fittings and boxes at home depot.. they sell them by the piece at a larger mark up than most supply houses.. With regular stuff like small emt fittings i buy them by the box and just keep it in my garage..


Same here. A long ways back they sold smaller fittings in bulk cheap. Now it all supply house for me for that stuff. Certain items such as Hot tub 50 amp GFCI breaker and enclosure , value pack panels, small ga. romex , 3 pack GFCIs are cheaper there.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> Same here. A long ways back they sold smaller fittings in bulk cheap. Now it all supply house for me for that stuff. Certain items such as Hot tub 50 amp GFCI breaker and enclosure , value pack panels, small ga. romex , 3 pack GFCIs are cheaper there.


 Oh yea, i remember a while back many of the Home Depots had a fire sale on lots of good stuff. I got two 60 amp spa panels for like 30 bucks each... among a list of other goodies... Later on i was kicking myself for not cleaning them out of all the spa stuff. and generator stuff... would have came in real handy a year later...


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> That's why they are losing good customers. I'm small potatoes but there are lots of us small potatoes. They are operating in dinosaur mode. It's 2012 and I can't log in to an account and and pay my invoices.
> 
> Less hours, less material on the shelf, and less visits by me and guys like me.


At least they have computers, there are two SHs out here that write all the prices out of a 6" thick book on a ticket. 1975' like .


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> At least they have computers, there are two SHs out here that write all the prices out of a 6" thick book on a ticket. 1975' like .


 :laughing::laughing:...no kidding.....LOL..


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

captkirk said:


> :laughing::laughing:...no kidding.....LOL..


Ironically the name of one is Nu Merit. Nothing new about it.


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

I shop HD for my residential jobs. I go to my favorite supply house for my commercial projects. This supply house doesn't deal in residential materials and I couldn't buy blue plastic boxes there if I wanted to. Problem solved.

(My favorite supply house won my business when they found a replacement unusual euro-sized 3-phase motor starter two states away and had it in my hands 40 hours later. HD could never do that.
This supply house is also *faster* and *cheaper* than the supply house I used to go to.)


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> They need to find a sucker who carries liabilty and comp insurance and license if applicable to jurisdiction. It's not HD, blame the sucker who's willing to install that ceiling fan for $75 because you know HD is tagging at least $25 to it.


A customer of mine said I was too expensive because HD would install ceiling fan for $99. He called me back a few weeks later! Apparently $99 is only under perfect conditions, when the contractor from HD came out to look at the job the price went up.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

joe cool said:


> I shop HD for my residential jobs. I go to my favorite supply house for my commercial projects. This supply house doesn't deal in residential materials and I couldn't buy blue plastic boxes there if I wanted to. Problem solved.
> 
> (My favorite supply house won my business when they found a replacement unusual euro-sized 3-phase motor starter two states away and had it in my hands 40 hours later. HD could never do that.
> This supply house is also *faster* and *cheaper* than the supply house I used to go to.)


the universal axiom _good, fast & cheap_ applys up/down the food chain Joe

for instance, those of little HC resource(s) may find a wally-appendectomy to meet two outta three that work for them, and say _good nuff_!

http://www.canadiangrocer.com/top-stories/wal-mart-to-add-13-medical-clinics-to-supercentres-6694





> I'm a HUGE Home Depot fan. Always have been.
> 
> 
> I don't care if they offer installation. It will be done by the bottom feeders and I don't consider them competition.


 
well that's the problem with monopolies 220/1

sooner or later, you and I _will be_ in competition with them

we are not now, nor ever going to be an isolated part of the economy

studies bear this point out....>




http://www.ilsr.org/key-studies-walmart-and-bigbox-retail/





more pointed might be....>

http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/mm2006/092006/interview-mitchell.html



> *Multinational Monitor:* What is the big box “swindle?”
> 
> *Stacy Mitchell:* The swindle is that many of us believe that we are doing well by shopping at big box stores, that the chain retailers are bringing us economic growth, prosperity, jobs and low prices. But, in fact, we are paying a huge hidden cost for these retailers. That is the swindle.
> 
> ...


 




sing along?





~CS~


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> sooner or later, you and I _will be_ in competition with them


I'm going to quite enjoy watching home depot try to become my competition. That's gonna be some funny stuff :laughing:

Too bad it will never really happen.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> I'm going to quite enjoy watching home depot try to become my competition. That's gonna be some funny stuff :laughing:
> 
> Too bad it will never really happen.


_really? _

so you'd turn down $26hr (2007 $$$) to drive cieling fans around all day?


http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/home-depot-hiring-qualified-help-1031/

~CS~


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## AllPhaser (Jul 20, 2012)

B4T said:


> The guys who do electrical work for HD are just like you.. local EC's who agree to do the job for the price HD quotes the customer..
> 
> This is the info I have been told.. but I have never worked for them..
> 
> Your boycott idea is a waste of time.. be a better to complain about the illegals hanging around the parking lot looking for cash day jobs.. IMO..


THUMBS UP!! On the cash day hangers.. Hmm.? I wonder why home depot wouldn't sub out work. With these hangers...


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## AllPhaser (Jul 20, 2012)

AllPhaser said:


> THUMBS UP!! On the cash day hangers.. Hmm.? I wonder why home depot wouldn't sub out work. With these hangers...


Maybe they do. One way or the other.


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## AllPhaser (Jul 20, 2012)

AllPhaser said:


> Maybe they do. One way or the other.


Ok well they do let them hangout in the parking lot with flatbed trucks etc. .oh and advertising what they do for $


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> but, there's that _'sales with a brain'_ attraction as well Chris
> 
> now _think _about this, as contractors we make good while the iron is _hot_, right?
> 
> ...


There is a HD near here that I buy quite a bit from. Over the years I got to be close friends w/ the electrical dept and upper managment. We call each other all the time, go to dinner w/ the wives etc. I can call (home or cellphone) for info or have an order filled w/ a phone call. Refunds or faulty goods are never a problem. They special order and stock what I ask.

When the new Codes come out I've spent hours on the phone w/ their headquarters in Atlanta advising them what to stock. 

If I get good service I fill out their reply on the ticket and name the employee. Next time I go to the store I'm very welcomed.

But, the same goes for my electrical supply house.

People just like to be appreciated.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Can you ask them in Atlanta what their obsession with light almond devices is? If you carry it in almond, please carry it in ivory. There's not too many houses with almond devices, yes a have done two, but there is tons of homes with ivory devices. From a service viewpoint it's annoying. Lowes is the same way.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Can you ask them in Atlanta what their obsession with light almond devices is? If you carry it in almond, please carry it in ivory. There's not too many houses with almond devices, yes a have done two, but there is tons of homes with ivory devices. From a service viewpoint it's annoying. Lowes is the same way.


My #1 device is light almond. For me if it's not white it's light almond or sometimes Lutron satin colors. Ivory is the new brown.  That said, the one's I go to all have the same stuff in white, ivory and light almond. 

BTW, was at HD the other day, well every day, the boycott doesn't seem to be picking up any momentum. :laughing:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The last two new homes I did in almond. I like the color too. Most of the selection carries through the color selection. The problem has been with some of the more oddball devices. I needed one those gfi's with a switch for a weekend service call. They had it in white and almond, I needed ivory. Almond was close enough for sat night. All the apartments I service are white or ivory. The new brown, I agree.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Ivory devices? :laughing: Those went out of style decades ago.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> BTW, was at HD the other day, well every day, the boycott doesn't seem to be picking up any momentum. :laughing:


You mean you don't want to support the French companies that own most of the supply houses around here? :whistling2:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> There is a HD near here that I buy quite a bit from. Over the years I got to be close friends w/ the electrical dept and upper managment. We call each other all the time, go to dinner w/ the wives etc. I can call (home or cellphone) for info or have an order filled w/ a phone call. Refunds or faulty goods are never a problem. They special order and stock what I ask.
> 
> When the new Codes come out I've spent hours on the phone w/ their headquarters in Atlanta advising them what to stock.
> 
> ...


 
Good luck on your venture as consultant SRE

~CS~


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

I bought four (4) 20" x 20" air filters yesterday for $.75 ea. Got paid $100.00 for installing them.

Thanks Home Depot. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Roadhouse said:


> I bought four (4) 20" x 20" air filters yesterday for $.75 ea. Got paid $100.00 for installing them.
> 
> Thanks Home Depot. :thumbsup:


So why is this tin knocker who knows nothing about electrical work posting here?


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

You mean to tell I didn't install this 240 disconnect properly? 










:laughing:

Must not have been me who re-wired this entire condenser (only to conclude the compressor was locked up).


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

The Home Depot clearly states its business under it's front sign, it reads.

" Do it Yourself Headquarters".

That's the class of people you will find there, and those who want the cheapest possible price since they can't do it themselves. I personally don't care to cater to that crowd anymore, there's minimal money there.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Or even the 20 stores that Lowes closed.


When Lowe's opened up around here, I don't remember a single supply house closing down. 



Outdoorguy said:


> I would rather boycott all junk made in China or any other foreign country.


You'll have to stop buying a lot of stuff (I know, its depressing).



electricmanscott said:


> My "Local" supply house... Rexel, Headquarters: Paris France. Home Depot, headquarters: Atlanta Georgia


I boycott HD for different reasons, no Rexel around here. Just Burch's (formerly owned by my wife's family, though still locally owned and operated), Don's (not sure what their deal is), and B&G the next county over (owned by my wife's family, from which I can get a line of credit until the job is done - Lowe's doesn't even offer anything similar).



Staxmaloney said:


> Bottom line: you can't blame people, especially in this day and age, for wanting to spend less money. As long as the big box stores aren't bound by any kind of price agreement, they will always be able to undercut the little guys. It's elementary economics. Home Depot is a business. They are there to make money, just like you and I. I for one don't take offense to them doing what they have to do to succeed because you, me and everyone else would do the same thing. In fact, I would go so far as to say the $99 installation is a good thing. Why? Because it breeds competition, at least at an economic level, and competition is good for business. It's what makes it thrive. The quality of an HD installation may be less, but most people know they get what they pay for. If I need a no frills ceiling fan, I'd call HD. If I need a state of the art HVAC system, Id call an electrician. There will always be a market for higher end, quality work. If there wasn't a market for it, we wouldn't have ferraris or Klein tools. All we would have would be Kia and Commercial Electric.


I happen to agree with you except for the HVAC part. For that i'd call a licensed HVAC installer. 



chicken steve said:


> agreed, but the jist is a level playing field, a company, corporation, or even country that had _no_ market protectants will be eaten alive by those that _do_ employ them Stax
> 
> ~CS~


Market protectionism is corporatism, not capitalism and definitely not a free market. 



Staxmaloney said:


> Absolutely true. That goes back to my earlier comment about MAP. A distributor sells 100 of something to Mom 'n' Pop 'lectric at $1 each. They can only afford to carry the overhead on 100 pieces. At the same time, the same distributor sells 1000 of the same unit to HD at (assuming a price break for quantity, which they almost certainly get) $.80 each. HD is able to absorb the overhead due to their size, obviously. Now, at the same percentage markup, let's say 25 percent, HD is easily able to beat Mom 'n' Pops price all because of the quantity price break and no MAP. This isn't the fault of HD. They are only doing the thing that makes the most business sense. I say force the manufacturer/distributor to enforce a MAP, that way HD and Mom and Pop can (in theory) sell the same product for the same price. That's fair for everyone.


Fair? No one said this life was going to be fair. I'm sorry for the little mom & pop stores that can't compete with the bigger stores, but perhaps its time the 20+ year old mom & pop stores moved into the 21st century? Or even better yet, start expanding and growing.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> Market protectionism is corporatism, not capitalism and definitely not a free market.


free trade , lack of VAT, zero tariffs are what monopolies in this country want Janagy

you'll probably note the _free traitor_ card being played more this election cycle , because the 30yr old supply side economic structure that demanded it is having it's _'race to the bottom'_ effects realized by even the most disenfranchised of voters


> thus the level playing field i speak of
> 
> ~CS~


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong on this.

Enjoy your corporate protectionism and the government force that would have to go along with it to make it work.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> Fair? No one said this life was going to be fair. I'm sorry for the little mom & pop stores that can't compete with the bigger stores, but perhaps its time the 20+ year old mom & pop stores moved into the 21st century? Or even better yet, start expanding and growing.


check the percentage of sm biz compared to other countries for an eye opener here Janagy

keep in mind that we define (SBA) a small biz as up to 500 employees , so the stats you may get are deceiving


also keep in mind monopolies love to legislate anything to send those mom & pops into retirement, and make it improbable for their hiers to embrace the same entreprenuership that made our system and country great

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong on this.
> 
> Enjoy your corporate protectionism and the government force that would have to go along with it to make it work.


you have nothing more to offer than my being _wrong_ here Janagy?

do you not realize the market , bear or bull, needs to be tamed , at least to the extent that it does not eat itself?

have you learned _anything_ from Congress bailing out wall street, at main streets expense?, seems that might be the best example to debate your point.......!

~CS~


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> you have nothing more to offer than my being _wrong_ here Janagy?
> 
> do you not realize the market , bear or bull, needs to be tamed , at least to the extent that it does not eat itself?
> 
> ...


Congress bailing out Wall Street is a symptom of Congress bothering itself with Wall Street in the first place! From the first government regulated banks to today! The housing market bubble? Government interference in that market too! Keep your liberal ideas to yourself buddy. Reduce the deficit, reduce spending, reduce the government and watch this country prosper once again. That won't happen with government granted monopolies and corporate protectionism.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Unfortunately I don't expect to learn much from this political debate since most such arguments are each side trying to prove itself correct, rarely does the person on one side learn from the person on the other.

Labelling the other side liberal or conservative is a convenient shortcut, takes away the need to consider that there may be some kernel of truth in what he's saying.

And I do buy from HD & Lowes, prefer local supplier. In fact many mornings I leave local supplier with only part of my order, go to Lowe's for the items they were short.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Maybe you haven't heard of the history of Glass Steagal Janagy

google it if your interested, it's a _good_ study in government interference.

the lesson learned is, like it or not the governement has an _obligation _to monitor the checks and balances of the market

the pendelum swings too far either way, and it doesn't work very well 

granted, it's not a _perfect_ science, but then any social science is not a _hard _science, is it?

pursuant to that, i don't think there's many out there that will argue our economic condition as a sympthom of greed

greed is killing the nation, because greed was let off it's leash , and no the _'free market'_ does not supply this restraint

but those that have made good on this recent fiscal debauchery don't wish to be outed as the perps, and further would like to continue it

this is why we have this socially engineered gestalt of _government interference_ in any form being the culprit here

trust me, i've no love for them being a sm biz man, but what i have come to realize is the playing field isn't level , and it needs to be if sm biz is to survive

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

readydave8 said:


> Unfortunately I don't expect to learn much from this political debate since most such arguments are each side trying to prove itself correct, rarely does the person on one side learn from the person on the other.
> 
> Labelling the other side liberal or conservative is a convenient shortcut, takes away the need to consider that there may be some kernel of truth in what he's saying.
> 
> And I do buy from HD & Lowes, prefer local supplier. In fact many mornings I leave local supplier with only part of my order, go to Lowe's for the items they were short.


labels are a copout

good debating requires folks to _read _Dave

it also requires details, statistics, and concepts to be laid out, etc

look for those that bring these items to the table, and your in leauge with posters that have outgrown lables

~CS~


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

There is no "kernel of truth" when you use government thuggery to protect your business from competition.

I do buy from wherever I have to, prefer local suppliers when I can but I do agree they need to move into the 21st century or they won't be in business much longer. The only computers I see in use at my wife's family's shop is used strictly for accounting (and its getting too old for the software being used).


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> There is no "kernel of truth" when you use government thuggery to protect your business from competition.


government thuggery is an apt term for the _free traitors_ who maintain lack of any American manufactures from being a competitive thorn in a monopolies a*s here Janagy

~CS~


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Maybe you haven't heard of the history of Glass Steagal Janagy
> 
> google it if your interested, it's a _good_ study in government interference.
> 
> ...


The only obligation of the government is to punish real crime (and not invent new ways of making people criminals). The free market can and does regulate itself.



chicken steve said:


> labels are a copout
> 
> good debating requires folks to _read _Dave
> 
> ...


I'm not here to debate market economics with another arm-chair pundit. Do I resort to labels? When accurate, yes. Otherwise you should notice I do try to avoid them.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> government thuggery is an apt term for the _free traitors_ who maintain lack of any American manufactures from being a competitive thorn in a monopolies a*s here Janagy
> 
> ~CS~


Talking about labels...

NAFTA has nothing to do with free trade (I do not support that abhorrent piece of crap legislation).

You've posted nothing worth taking the time to respond to with definitive sources fellow sparky so I'm stopping my part of the conversation here. have fun spinning your wheels.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> There is no "kernel of truth" when you use government thuggery to protect your business from competition.
> 
> I do buy from wherever I have to, prefer local suppliers when I can but I do agree they need to move into the 21st century or they won't be in business much longer. The only computers I see in use at my wife's family's shop is used strictly for accounting (and its getting too old for the software being used).


Sometimes an item you need sits so long on the shelf at a Mom & Pop the price is real good, because the forgot to mark it up:laughing:

When I see that I clean out the shelf.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

Now that's a deal.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> You mean you don't want to support the French companies that own most of the supply houses around here? :whistling2:


Couple weeks ago bought a Pannasonic Fan at Rexel. Looked at the slip as I was walking out the door, 250 bucks. I put it back on the counter and said ya right. It somehow turned into 175 which was still high but more reasonable. It's a daily battle and never used to be.

My go-tos: Depot, Lowes, Granite City Electric (Ok prices but at least Massachusetts Based) Rexel is seeing less and less of me.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'll do Amazon if I need to. At least I know I'll get it on time. Can't argue with their or HD's return policy. No way I'm paying that for a Panasonic, unless its one of the large ones or inline.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Roadhouse said:


> Must not have been me who re-wired this entire condenser (only to conclude the compressor was locked up).



Troubleshooting an a/c unit doesn't make you an electrician.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Couple weeks ago bought a Pannasonic Fan at Rexel. Looked at the slip as I was walking out the door, 250 bucks. I put it back on the counter and said ya right. It somehow turned into 175 which was still high but more reasonable. It's a daily battle and never used to be.


Nice. 



> My go-tos: Depot, Lowes, Granite City Electric (Ok prices but at least Massachusetts Based) Rexel is seeing less and less of me.


I wouldn't go to Granite City if they were giving away electrical supplies. For some reason they are an outrageous rip off. I use the first two evil empires, and a couple locally owned places. I hate the regional chains owned the French.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> > The only obligation of the government is to punish real crime (and not invent new ways of making people criminals). The free market can and does regulate itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> Couple weeks ago bought a Pannasonic Fan at Rexel. Looked at the slip as I was walking out the door, 250 bucks. I put it back on the counter and said ya right. It somehow turned into 175 which was still high but more reasonable. It's a daily battle and never used to be.
> 
> My go-tos: Depot, Lowes, Granite City Electric (Ok prices but at least Massachusetts Based) Rexel is seeing less and less of me.


a recent quote via a project manager revealed Rexel as almost twice that of local compeditors

when he asked me how it was the largest nation chain could do that i replied>>>>

*"Confidence"*

~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Watch a few episodes of Frontline. I think they sometimes go a bit overboard with regulation. On the other hand we can all go back to living like the industrial revolution. Has to be a balance somewhere. It's tough to be on top of every issue when your busy running your own business and raising a family. I need them to help watching out for us.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> Watch a few episodes of Frontline. I think they sometimes go a bit overboard with regulation. On the other hand we can all go back to living like the industrial revolution.* Has to be a balance somewhere.* It's tough to be on top of every issue when your busy running your own business and raising a family. I need them to help watching out for us.


 
:thumbsup:


egggactly......~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I would be willing to bet if you called them on that, you'd get some of the difference back. I get burned because I lose track sometimes. I have the prices on the invoices when I pick up. I bill daily.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> janagyjr said:
> 
> 
> > first off , we've quite a few foxes in the congressional hen house
> ...


First off, I'm no libertarian (though I do fall on the scale in the 90th percentile). Secondly, I would love to see many of those UnConstitutional agencies GONE. Thirdly, the NFPA is voluntarily adopted or not at the state level. OSHA is a joke with the extremes they go to. 

Listen, I'm here to learn about electricity and rant about big box stores, not debate an arm-chair pundit (seeing as I am one). I'm too lazy to look up anything to back up my position just because I'm to the point of knowing it doesn't matter in the long run whether you're a Conservative, Liberal, Centrist, Statist, or Libertarian. 

If you don't freakin' chill out I will resort to ignoring you (and i'd rather not, you're fairly intelligent and have some good ideas coiled up in that ball of liberal misguidedness).


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Yeled, I think you're having a 'senior moment.' 

Home Depot, and the other home centers, make money because they provide a valuable service. Where else will you get the odd bits of hardware, lumber, etc., that you need?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

*I know a place called Home Depot
They got a cool little clique, all good to go
They can wire and plumb and tile too
And do that crazy hack jive too

Hack jive, hack jive, hack jive, doin' that crazy hack jive*

*Papa Bob Vila gonna reno my home
Said all that hack jive have got the go
Code geeks don't dare put them down
They're doin' the hack jive all over town

Hack jive, hack jive, hack jive, doin' that crazy hack jive

Mama, Mama look at Tim Allen
He's doin' that hack jive comedian
Grandpa tuned in to catch a line
Gonna do that hack jive one more time*
*Hack jive, hack jive, hack jive, doin' that crazy hack jive*

*Well, osha and the lawyers and an nec chief
They all dig that crazy beat*
*Big Box store gave 'em all a treat
When they taught that hack jive with their feet *
*Hack jive, hack jive, hack jive, doin' that crazy hack jive

HD & Lowes got married last fall
They had a little merger, and that ain't all
They knew how to use the media, you see
Doin' that hand jive on TV *
*Hack jive, hack jive, hack jive, doin' that crazy hack jive*

*~CS~ (with appologies to Johnny Otis)*


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

:stupid::stupid::laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Yeled said:


> Because they are in the business of selling do-it-yourself stuff, this is not do-it-yourself and it's making me look bad when I bid on a job. I don't have the mass load of work that these guys have... Therefore my prices are usually higher.
> 
> Sent from my iPad2




If it's not working, work harder.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> If it's not working, work harder.


Where do you get these phrases?


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

*qo price*

I checked my prices for a SD QO 120 breaker today from my supplier. $7.89. Home Depot is about $2 cheaper. I don't like buying there but on a hard dollar job that can make a difference.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I prefer work smart not hard.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I was just there tonight. :thumbup:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I was just there tonight. :thumbup:


Where?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> Where?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I was just there tonight. :thumbup:


:cursing:


I'll be there in the morning. :thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> :cursing:
> 
> 
> I'll be there in the morning. :thumbup:


Traitor. :laughing:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

te12co2w said:


> I checked my prices for a SD QO 120 breaker today from my supplier. $7.89. Home Depot is about $2 cheaper. I don't like buying there but on a hard dollar job that can make a difference.


I pay $5.59 from supplier. See if you can get on direct pricing through Square D. My supplier set me up a long time ago. I think there is a minimum amount you have to purchase in a years time. I think Square D pricing is supposed to increase again this month. Hopefully the Home Depot's, Menards etc will see the same price increase but it seems they're treated differently. STINKS!!


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

wendon said:


> I pay $5.59 from supplier. See if you can get on direct pricing through Square D. My supplier set me up a long time ago. I think there is a minimum amount you have to purchase in a years time.


You have to be on the Square D buying program and the minimum quantities are pretty big, IIRC.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Peter D said:


> You have to be on the Square D buying program and the minimum quantities are pretty big, IIRC.


I can buy one breaker at a time if I want. It's just that you have to purchase a minimum amount in 1 years time. I think when I started out it was $2500 dollars or something like that. What I don't like is that some get better pricing than others depending on what type of a deal your salesman works out with Square D.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Peter D said:


>


:no:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I only buy wire, and spackle, caulk, wood, cement, and GFCI receptacles from the Home Depot. I also own a couple of table lamps that were onsale. Everything else is bought from my trusted Supply House who delivers my material for no addition cost. They used to be right here in Rahway until hurricane Irene and the Rahway river crested and destroyed the building.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Add drop clothes and paint brushes to the list. I buy all of our sheet metal hexhead screws from Ace. I also make it a point to whoever is the salesmen at the HD who actually does help me gets thanked and shown appreciation. Everyone likes to be feel appreciated and that's what makes people want to help you. HD used to be about good service but not every store is good 0r employed by good people.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)




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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I only buy wire, and spackle, caulk, wood, cement, and GFCI receptacles from the Home Depot. I also own a couple of table lamps that were onsale. Everything else is bought from my trusted Supply House who delivers my material for no addition cost.


No extra cost? :laughing: It's built into the outrageous prices that supply houses typically charge.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

The "Capitalistic System is where goods are produced privately and sold for a profit." 

If a business decision does not increase profit, it's a bad decision. 

If a business decision has a negative impact on company profit you have to limit such decisions in the future or you or your company will soon be out of business. 

It is also theft. You are stealling from your family and company and anyone else who relies on you to remain in business. It also hurts the party who benfited from the transaction because you will not be able to do business with them, for very long.

Home Depot as well as all of us make these decisions every day. 

Every transaction or contract we enter into has to be a win-win for both parties, or it probably won't be repeated.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

*SD*



wendon said:


> I pay $5.59 from supplier. See if you can get on direct pricing through Square D. My supplier set me up a long time ago. I think there is a minimum amount you have to purchase in a years time. I think Square D pricing is supposed to increase again this month. Hopefully the Home Depot's, Menards etc will see the same price increase but it seems they're treated differently. STINKS!!


 I got set up years ago with contractor pricing and it definitely gave me better prices. I had a suspicion that I wasn't getting treated the same the past 2 years, but never brought it up with my supplier. One thing that happened was a change in the manager at the supply house. My old contact is still there but no longer in charge. I didn't know there was a minimum per year. Maybe I haven't been meeting that because I have been buying more at the orange store. Buy more at Home Depot, buy less at supply house and lose the contractor pricing? Could be happening. I have to drive 100 miles to Home Depot too. Thanks!


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