# Who Would Have Given the Work To



## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I was stoped by a union electrician in the street and he said to me I understand that you wanted to give the work to the non-signitured contractor. I said that that was correct. He ask why and I expressed a consern that once the union contractors replace us they will not offer me a job but the non-signitured contractor would. I said that it was a matter of self preservation and I do not have any hard feelings to the individual members with the exception fo the lieing organizers that I have delt with in the past
In the 70's I was interviewed 5 times by the apprenticeship committee so there is ill will between me and that country club local we have in our town. The way I see it the local made me work non-signitured and they should be ashamed of what they did not try to make feel bad about working non-signitured.
In the past some union electricians would ask me why I worked for a perticular contractor and I would tell them that the contractor gave me a job when the local would not. The conversation was short lived.
LC


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

You bring up a good point about union mentality.

All -us- union members scream how electricians should be union only, work should be union, etc.

How hard is it to get in a union, tho? I guess it depends on your area, but around here, only the privileged get it, and it's even worse now since work is slow. 

So what about all the other people? What about all the people who want to be electricians, but don't have enough contacts in the hall to get them in? Are they just not supposed to be electricians? Give up their dream career because the union is only letting sons and goodfellas in?

The other day I witnessed a similar phenomenon. A couple Union Laborers were ****ing with Mexican laborers, giving them a hard time because they were non-union. The Union Laborers make $26+ per hour plus a lot of other benefits, healthcare, pension, etc. Don't you think the Mexicans would LOVE to be in the union? What do they make, $60 per 10 hour day? If they were given a chance, they would all go union. 

But since they haven't been invited to the club, they shouldn't do the work at all... That makes sense.


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

Hehe...both of you hit it on the head, along with Brian John's comments in the past. I greatly respect the man!

It's been a LONG standing joke around here that the 'Hall's' are trying to find someone that can spell and read to correct their own books/literature.

The proper spelling should be....'IB*U*EW'...International Brotherhood of *UNION* Electrical Workers!

The Non Union Electrician's are really the *'IBEW'*...as we *WILL *hire you! 

It does not matter what state you come from, where your training came from, who you worked for in the past....you want to do this for a career, we will employ you and train you. The pay may not be as high, there may not be full bene's, but, there are more of 'us' out there and you can still work, and take control of your future yourself. You don't have to decide whether to be an...inside electrician, resi, LV, etc.... You will make what you are worth, period. No worries or issues about the slacker making just as much as you, the hard worker, or him getting the raise just because it is time. No one else to tell you what to do with your earnings, slow your progress in learning, limit your investments in tools, or what you want to use in the field to make your job easier, etc....no BS rules. 

If the IBUEW incorporated some (not necessarily all) of these ideas, and others, and actually practiced the thought that UNION was the way to go, respected others training, experience, and showed complete happiness in the fact, others, decided to join up...then things would be different. The UNION would definately grow in memberships, strength, and the natural desire to join up.

But...until it is understood/accepted that WE are electricians as a whole....there is no true BROTHERHOOD! Just Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar vs Foreign.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

The constitution say's to organize all electrical workers. The problem is that each local has a financial responsibility to all the existing members. IMO they need to get more contractors to handle the employees. More contractors = more employees. Until they can do this they will maintain the same workforce. Personally I don't judge a man by his union or non union status, there is more than one way to skin a cat.


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## lectric_hand6855 (Jan 24, 2009)

BadSplice said:


> You bring up a good point about union mentality.
> 
> All -us- union members scream how electricians should be union only, work should be union, etc.
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better myself brother.



Shado said:


> Hehe...both of you hit it on the head, along with Brian John's comments in the past. I greatly respect the man!
> 
> It's been a LONG standing joke around here that the 'Hall's' are trying to find someone that can spell and read to correct their own books/literature.
> 
> ...


Your absolutely right, I'm a union member and to avoid a long post lets just say that I disagree with many more union activities than I agree with. Its disappointing, because there is alot of potential with the union with they would just get their heads on straight.


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

lectric_hand6855 said:


> Your absolutely right, I'm a union member and to avoid a long post lets just say that I disagree with many more union activities than I agree with.


I never really made a detailed list to see what I agree and disagree with, but I'd say I agree with more than I disagree.

Even in Shado's posts there were things that he called negative about the union that I agree with. For example:



> No one else to tell you what to do with your earnings, slow your progress in learning, *limit your investments in tools, or what you want to use in the field to make your job easier*


 I find that to be a positive. A couple days ago I read an old post on this forum in which a contractor spelled out a tool list from hell, he said how he makes his guys carry their own ladders, including 10 footers! Not only does that mean that the electrician has to have the ladders, but it now requires them to buy a truck too! On top of that, many areas won't let you park a truck with a ladder rack on the street at night, so if he doesn't have a driveway (and can't fit it in the garage with the rack) he might have to rent a private parking space? The amount of tools on this guy's list, especially disposable tools like multiple sizes of expensive Unibits and drill bits, was amazing. So having a reasonable limit of required tools seems like a good idea. 

And FWIW, the IBEW tool list from any of the locals I have worked in are always a *minimum*, meaning that list is all that is required. There are many other tools that will make your job easier that you can bring if you choose. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they added more tools and even required a cordless drill. I'm just glad that there is some level headed limits like not requiring 10 foot ladders, 5 benders, hammer drill, etc.


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## lectric_hand6855 (Jan 24, 2009)

BadSplice said:


> I never really made a detailed list to see what I agree and disagree with, but I'd say I agree with more than I disagree.
> 
> Even in Shado's posts there were things that he called negative about the union that I agree with. For example:
> 
> ...


I agree with you about the tool list. Regarding the post about the huge tool list, I think alot of that is the employee's fault. If a potential employer told me that (union or not) I would have to tell them to stick it :whistling2: unless I was making a $hit ton of money to cover it all.

I guess I should have been a little more specific in my previous post. The kind of things I disagree with are the ways they go about organizing workers & employers and IMO they could get more work if the hall would get out and stir the pot a little. This is just in my experience.

Also I'm sitting on the bench right now without insurance and struggling to stay busy with side work just to stay afloat yet they still want full dues every month. 

IDK I guess it just gets on my nerves that the union use to be such a good thing and I can only see it going down hill.


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

I do want it known that I harbor no ill feelings towards the Union in general. I think the basic idea is justified...but..the execution is poor.

I have 25+ years Non Union (self taught) for reasons mentioned above and others. I also interviewed 3 years in a row here. This was in the early 80's and back then, the books were only open for 2 weeks in Feburary. When I was accepted, (they were allowing left over's from the previous year 1st shot) the Union had taken a cut in pay...I was married, had a child, debts, etc...and already had time in, but couldn't afford the paycut at the time. So, I moved on, worked in a few different states, came back here and got licensed. 

One thing missing here is the option of schools. Would be great if one could take classes to better themselves and the trade, with no strings attached. Simply sign up, pay and learn!!

I have considered the Local 68 here, even took my nephew down to talk with them since he is interested in the trade. I told him the schooling was worth him going for it. Same issue as elsewhere....slow work and no openings.

We will all choose what is best for us at the time needed...even if the choice has to be between the *lesser of* *two Evils*!


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