# I-line Breaker change out



## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Find a time when you can turn it off. It’s faster, safer and easier.


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

if you are going from 40A to 225A
i suggest a thorough investigation of the amp ratings of the buss bars
as well as an inventory of the amps already being used
keep in mind breaker size is not always a good indicator of actual load


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Awg-Dawg said:


> Find a time when you can turn it off. It’s faster, safer and easier.


10 , 000 % agree, you never know for sure what will happen when you mess with old gear and truly high available fault current

almost no one is injured from electric shock in those situations, it is the burns and molten metal
i have read and seen pictures of what the resulting burns are 
i actually knew a man who lived through a 600V 100A switch gear draw out explosion
it blew him through a set of fiberglass double doors, 10ft high and 2 inches thick
burned him actually naked (25 yrs ago ,,, no arc flash protection required)
it took him a year to be able to walk out of the house and 3 years to recover enough that he could live a normal life

there are no second chances in this .... no do overs either

_*dont take chances*_


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

personally if they cant turn it off

then i cant do it

no hot work for me
to prove it i dont own any fr clothing because it would rot sitting on the shelf


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Almost Retired said:


> if you are going from 40A to 225A
> i suggest a thorough investigation of the amp ratings of the buss bars
> as well as an inventory of the amps already being used
> keep in mind breaker size is not always a good indicator of actual load


Already been done. And there’s plenty of buss bar capacity. There is no increase of load. There are 2 panels 350’ feet away feed with 3/0 and connected the share the same 3/0. I’m just putting these 2 panels on their own 3/0


----------



## mayanees (Jan 12, 2009)

The correct way to do the work energized is to put the responsibility back on the owner by having them sign an Energized Electrical Work Permit.

If you end up doing it on an energized system, I think you're likely covered with a 40-calorie suit as long as the upstream source is a 500 kVA transformer or smaller.


----------



## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I disagree, if you think a piece of paper protects you, your daft.
Most places I have been the bureaucrats that approve such paper have no bloody clue what they are signing.

I have done hot and under a load, including MV stuff. No more. Sticking a new breaker on live buss is just an accident looking for a place to happen. I will agree that the I line would be better than installing the connecting screws on other manufactures products.

If management will not provide a shut down it is time to look for another job. 

There are no old and bold linemen.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I-line are the safest breakers to change. No bus bolts to deal with. Loosen the hold down screw at the back, pop a screwdriver in the slots and lever it out. Pop in the new breaker, line it up, and lever it in. Tighten screw, good to go. Verify the i-line breaker phasing to make sure the bus tabs line up. I've done it live plenty of times, but I guess I'm a reckless cowboy.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I don't know how many I-Line breakers I've changed, removed and/or installed hot..........

Has anyone ever been blown up with this type of gear?


----------



## mayanees (Jan 12, 2009)

SWDweller said:


> I disagree, if you think a piece of paper protects you, your daft.
> Most places I have been the bureaucrats that approve such paper have no bloody clue what they are signing.
> 
> I have done hot and under a load, including MV stuff. No more. Sticking a new breaker on live buss is just an accident looking for a place to happen. I will agree that the I line would be better than installing the connecting screws on other manufactures products.
> ...


No, the PPE protects you in the event that something you do creates an arc flash. The EEWP protects you from violating OSHA regulations.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

five.five-six said:


> I have a job that involves changing out a 3 pole 40A 277/480 with a 225A breaker. I don’t do a ton of industrial and I did work on switchgear in my apprenticeship but now it’s once a year or so that I’m working changing out these breakers. I have a 40 calorie suit, insulated tools and an insulating blanket. Just wondering if there’s any proclivities with this switchgear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not convinced a


----------



## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Going_Commando said:


> I-line are the safest breakers to change. No bus bolts to deal with. Loosen the hold down screw at the back, pop a screwdriver in the slots and lever it out. Pop in the new breaker, line it up, and lever it in. Tighten screw, good to go. Verify the i-line breaker phasing to make sure the bus tabs line up. I've done it live plenty of times, but I guess I'm a reckless cowboy.


I'll agree with G_C.

Probably the safest breakers to install or remove.

Just recently I pulled four 30 amp breakers, then installed four 90 amp breakers.

Work in a food processing plant that runs 24/7, complete power outages are pretty much out of the question, so the swap out was done with the bus still energized.

Really can't even see the bus.

Always verify the breaker is off prior to installing the breaker.

Verify there is no continuity between any of the lugs of the breaker when the breaker is in the OFF position.

Work safe, if you don't feel safe, stop and re-evaluate the situation.


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

1. Realize that a 40 cal suit quite often is USELESS on I line panels. The problem is that if something goes wrong the arc can jump over the main NFPA has measured this in the lab. Most of the time it takes a long time for the primary side breaker/fuse to trip creating high arc flash values, often higher than 40 cals. The safest approach as mentioned is power down the feeder to the panel. If the primary protection is external this is no longer as big if an issue but regardless of what the NFPA tables say the correct PPE is based on upstream equipment breakers/fuses and short circuit currents. I’ve seen I Lines with over 200 cal/cm2 ratings. At that point it doesn’t matter if you wear 40 cal arc flash suit or not.

2. I line has 3 sizes/generations: A, B, C. Not all breakers are interchangeable. Check that ahead of time. I’ve been burned on this multiple times.

3. I line is very similar to a miniature draw out system but the bus is right there and open when you pull back the breaker. I have never seen a problem with the bus bar system itself. I have had problems with the little screw clip failing (stripping out). I’ve had breakers fail (fail to latch, fail to trip, one or more poles welded shut). I’ve had problems especially with wiring that us stripped too much of where it is tight or twisted or routed around other cables. Generally with big breakers the side troughs get so full or the wiring is so oversized that you can’t safely remove and attach leads under power. This is especially true if you are going from 40 A to 225 A wiring. Remember just like house wiring if you accidentally drop a lead and it shorts that’s where you get arcing and bad things happen.

4. Older I Line covers are very flimsy and the latches are often bad. Opening isn’t too bad but getting them closed and latched can be ugly. For this one reason just de-energize.

I Lines have been around since the 1970s. Some are pretty rough condition. They can be safer than draw out equipment but not always.


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> I'm not convinced a


Convinced a ?


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

paulengr said:


> 4. Older I Line covers are very flimsy and the latches are often bad. Opening isn’t too bad but getting them closed and latched can be ugly. For this one reason just de-energize.


these covers are not flimsy, in fact they are rather stout.


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks for all the help, I did power down the building last night and got the breaker changed out. 



Who the hell brings 4 4/0 in a service through a 2” LL when there’s no obstruction to use a LB? Those conductors and insulation were effed the F up. A couple of places the insulation was gouged all the way to copper and repaired wit h tape.


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

five.five-six said:


> Thanks for all the help, I did power down the building last night and got the breaker changed out.
> 
> 
> 
> Who the hell brings 4 4/0 in a service through a 2” LL when there’s no obstruction to use a LB? Those conductors and insulation were effed the F up. A couple of places the insulation was gouged all the way to copper and repaired wit h tape.


When all you have on the truck is a LL and the SH is 30 miles away…..


----------



## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

460 Delta said:


> When all you have on the truck is a LL and the SH is 30 miles away…..


who the hell doesnt have a better plan and material list for a run of 4 - 4/0
than i hope i have one on the truck
if i had that job i would know down to every single fitting and strap just exactly what i needed


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> who the hell doesnt have a better plan and material list for a run of 4 - 4/0
> than i hope i have one on the truck
> if i had that job i would know down to every single fitting and strap just exactly what i needed


I dunno, sometimes life just happens I guess.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

460 Delta said:


> I dunno, sometimes life just happens I guess.


Or sometimes the nitwits at the supply house either don't know their LL from their LB, or decided to "upgrade" you to LLs for free, without asking, because they were out of LBs, or one of a million other ways the best laid plans of mice and men might not work out.


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Almost Retired said:


> who the hell doesnt have a better plan and material list for a run of 4 - 4/0
> than i hope i have one on the truck
> if i had that job i would know down to every single fitting and strap just exactly what i needed


I don’t know about exactly but I wasn’t 10% under or over any of the materials I originally ordered for this job. I have just a handful of straps and couplings left and 4 sticks of pipe. 

Now that I have my my mule tape in the conduit to measure the run, I can order my wire


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

460 Delta said:


> When all you have on the truck is a LL and the SH is 30 miles away…..


I think it would take less time to drive 60 miles to get an LB or a 10x10x8 can than to shove and beat all that 4/0 through a 2” LL.


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

460 Delta said:


> When all you have on the truck is a LL and the SH is 30 miles away…..


Who carries a 2" LL on their truck?


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

splatz said:


> Or sometimes the nitwits at the supply house either don't know their LL from their LB, or decided to "upgrade" you to LLs for free, without asking, because they were out of LBs, or one of a million other ways the best laid plans of mice and men might not work out.


On tis job, the nitwits at the SH decided I didn’t need the panel because it was backordered for a month… so when I ordered the material delivered, they just kept that a secret. 

I’m going through the materials on the job site and “no panel on the palates” was the first I knew of it. I had to scramble to find a panel while I’m paying for labor and a lift rental sitting around doing nothing. 

Shout out to Western Enterprises and Memo (the owner) in riverside CA who came through with flying colors same day.


----------

