# Receptacle above baseboard heat



## voltz

424.9 fpn: 08 code


----------



## Dennis Alwon

To add to what Voltz has written, I will say that I have never seen an electric baseboard heater that would allow a receptacle to be installed above it. 

Here is the accessory to accommodate code. They mount at the ends of the heaters. I have done a few this way but not for 20 years or more.


----------



## Otter

What about a height requirement? Could I put a recep. 7 ft above the unit and be alright?


----------



## Otter

Could I put a recep. in the floor in front of the baseboard?


----------



## oldtimer

Dennis Alwon said:


> To add to what Voltz has written, I will say that I have never seen an electric baseboard heater that would allow a receptacle to be installed above it.
> 
> Here is the accessory to accommodate code. They mount at the ends of the heaters. I have done a few this way but not for 20 years or more.


 I also did some like this many years ago, but I never liked it. My reason is;

Most electric baseboard heaters operate on 240/208 volt. Therefore you had to bring a 120 volt line to the receptacle, and by code the unit would have to be identified as having more than one power.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

oldtimer said:


> I also did some like this many years ago, but I never liked it. My reason is;
> 
> Most electric baseboard heaters operate on 240/208 volt. Therefore you had to bring a 120 volt line to the receptacle, and by code the unit would have to be identified as having more than one power.


Not sure what code that is but anyone should be able to see that there would be 2 power sources. I never labeled it. Maybe back then it wasn't necessary.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Otter said:


> What about a height requirement? Could I put a recep. 7 ft above the unit and be alright?


The NEC does not address this. It would be in the manufacturers instructions. I seem to remember something like 4' or so. 



Otter said:


> Could I put a recep. in the floor in front of the baseboard?


 Yes, the purpose is to keep cords from draping ontop of the heater. I don't believe there is an issue with a floor recep. in front of the unit.


----------



## Bob Badger

Canada ........ the great white North ehh?


----------



## jwjrw

Dennis Alwon said:


> Not sure what code that is but anyone should be able to see that there would be 2 power sources. I never labeled it. Maybe back then it wasn't necessary.


 

Or maybe it was and you missed it!:jester::laughing:


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Here are some instructions from a Cadet heater. Seems like no recep. is allowed above the heater at any height.



> 1. Read all instructions before using this heater.
> 2. Read all information labels. Verify that the electrical supply
> wires are the same voltage as the heater.
> 3. All electrical work and materials must comply with the
> National Electric Code (NEC), the Occupational Safety and
> Health Act (OSHA), and all state and local codes.
> 4. The heater must be grounded to the grounding pigtail (copper
> wire) provided.
> 5. If you need to install a new circuit or need additional wiring
> information, consult a qualified electrician.
> 6. Protect electrical supply from kinks, sharp objects, oil, grease,
> hot surfaces or chemicals.
> 7. Do not place heater against paperboard or low-density
> cellulose fiberboard surfaces.
> *8. Do not place heater below an electrical convenience receptacle.*





> Placement
> For best results, install the baseboard heater under a window, along
> an outside wall, or as close as possible to an outside door. Follow
> these instructions for selecting an ideal area of installation:
> the heater may need to be caulked to prevent dust from being drawn into the room.
> Heater should be set flush against surface of the wall.
> Remove any obstructions between the back of the unit and the surface of the wall.
> Baseboard heater may sit directly on any floor surface, including carpet.
> Do not allow carpet to block lower air intake located 1 inch from the bottom of the heater.
> Maintain at least 12 inches minimum clearance from objects hanging above (i.e. drapes).


----------



## oldtimer

Dennis; Our code is the C.E.C. There are amendments for specific provinces. You have amendments for specific states I think.


----------



## Edrick

heh someone doesn't want to come to this new house then. The whole house is wired with electric baseboard heating and it's under every window basically and under every outlet in the house. It'd be impossible to follow code to meet the minimum distance of outlets if they didn't put it over the baseboard heating.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Edrick said:


> heh someone doesn't want to come to this new house then. The whole house is wired with electric baseboard heating and it's under every window basically and under every outlet in the house. It'd be impossible to follow code to meet the minimum distance of outlets if they didn't put it over the baseboard heating.


Floor recep. would make it compliant and recep. in the end of heaters. Why would that not work?


----------



## Edrick

Good question I suppose that would of worked however I didn't wire the place a Master Electrician built the house back in 1995 so perhaps the rule wasn't in effect back then.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Edrick said:


> Good question I suppose that would of worked however I didn't wire the place a Master Electrician built the house back in 1995 so perhaps the rule wasn't in effect back then.


Yes it was, the inspector didn't catch it would be my guess. It is not an NEC issue but a manufacturers spec.


----------



## Otter

Thanks for all the input. Would I be able to install a panel board above the baseboard since there would be no cords hanging.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Otter said:


> Thanks for all the input. Would I be able to install a panel board above the baseboard since there would be no cords hanging.


That depends-- technically it would violate 110.26



> (3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to the height required by 110.26(E). Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the front of the electrical equipment.


----------



## Bob Badger

Edrick said:


> heh someone doesn't want to come to this new house then. The whole house is wired with electric baseboard heating and it's under every window basically and under every outlet in the house. It'd be impossible to follow code to meet the minimum distance of outlets if they didn't put it over the baseboard heating.


Not 'imposable' at all and the job should fail.

Either use the receptacles that install in the baseboard or never run more than 12' continuous feet of baseboard heat.


----------



## oldtimer

In new construction, I have had to install 2 small heaters with a space between, to comply with the receptacle spacing rules. A little more work and expense. But an option.


----------



## Otter

Why would it violate 110.26? The baseboard only extends 4 inches beyond the front of the panel.


----------



## Bob Badger

Otter said:


> Why would it violate 110.26? The baseboard only extends 4 inches beyond the front of the panel.


IMO The baseboard heater is not 'associated with' the panel but I think that would be the AHJs call.


----------



## 480sparky

Only if the manufacturer prohibits receptacles over the baseboard is it an issue.

See the first FPN to 210.52.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

480sparky said:


> Only if the manufacturer prohibits receptacles over the baseboard is it an issue.
> See the first FPN to 210.52.


That was already mentioned in the 2nd post by Voltz-- same FPN different article



voltz said:


> 424.9 fpn: 08 code


Again, its been years since I have installed baseboard heaters but all the ones I have used state not to install under a receptacle.


----------



## jwjrw

480sparky said:


> Only if the manufacturer prohibits receptacles over the baseboard is it an issue.
> 
> See the first FPN to 210.52.


 

I've never installed one that said you could. I think Dennis said this also. That dosen't mean all brands are that way. But the 3 brands I have installed all said no.


----------



## voltz

Otter said:


> What about a height requirement? Could I put a recep. 7 ft above the unit and be alright?


similar to a clock outlet that is recessed? I can not see a problem with that, but again, I would think the UL listed heater would dictate that, as it does with normal outlets


----------



## Otter

Thanks again guys. I will put my receps one ft away from each end of a 8 ft baseboard heater. I still think you should be able to mount a panelboard above it though.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Otter said:


> I still think you should be able to mount a panelboard above it though.


This is not a manufacturer spec but rather a NEC issue. I agree with you, but the NEC is clear on that, IMO.


----------



## TOOL_5150

oldtimer said:


> Dennis; Our code is the C.E.C. There are amendments for specific provinces. You have amendments for specific states I think.


CEC Means california electrical code to me.

~Matt


----------



## CTshockhazard

Otter said:


> Are there any restrictions on putting
> receptacles above baseboard heat? Can I put a receptacle above a
> baseboard heater knowing full well that someone will plug something into
> the receptacle and allow the cord to drape over the baseboard heat? If
> yes, does it depend on the type of heat - radiant heat vs electric
> baseboard for example?
> Is there a different ambient temp in the wall for derating of the wire?





> 1. Read all instructions before using this heater.
> 2. Read all information labels. Verify that the electrical supply
> wires are the same voltage as the heater.
> 3. All electrical work and materials must comply with the
> National Electric Code (NEC), the Occupational Safety and
> Health Act (OSHA), and all state and local codes.
> 4. The heater must be grounded to the grounding pigtail (copper
> wire) provided.
> 5. If you need to install a new circuit or need additional wiring
> information, consult a qualified electrician.
> 6. Protect electrical supply from kinks, sharp objects, oil, grease,
> hot surfaces or chemicals.
> 7. Do not place heater against paperboard or low-density
> cellulose fiberboard surfaces.
> 8. Do not place heater below an electrical convenience receptacle.


Well that only stops you from installing the heater below the receptacle, it doesn't stop you from installing a receptacle above the heater.:laughing:


Several years ago, while installing some electric baseboard heaters, I figured it was a good opportunity to teach the apprentice with me at the time about this issue. The only problem was that there was nothing on the box or in the paperwork with the heaters preventing them from being installed under receptacles. The kid thought I was full of it. Unfortunately I don't remember the manufacturer.


----------



## Shockdoc

Not 100% sure since we rarely have electric heat out here but I believe it is legal to have an outlet above a electric hydronic baseboard. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Shorty Circuit

Bob Badger said:


> IMO The baseboard heater is not 'associated with' the panel but I think that would be the AHJs call.


If I were the AHJ I might let you get away with it....if it was on the next floor at least one flight up :gunsmilie: ....and then again.....:2guns:


----------



## Dennis Alwon

Shockdoc said:


> Not 100% sure since we rarely have electric heat out here but I believe it is legal to have an outlet above a electric hydronic baseboard. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


 That is correct that is why I specifically stated electric baseboard heaters in my original post #3


----------



## Shorty Circuit

*A heater by any other source*



Otter said:


> Are there any restrictions on putting
> receptacles above baseboard heat? Can I put a receptacle above a
> baseboard heater knowing full well that someone will plug something into
> the receptacle and allow the cord to drape over the baseboard heat? If
> yes, does it depend on the type of heat - radiant heat vs electric
> baseboard for example?
> Is there a different ambient temp in the wall for derating of the wire?


Why would it matter if the baseboard radiator was heated electrically or by hot water? Isn't the concern the heat and not the way it is generated? Wouldn't a power cord also drape over a hot water convection heater below it? Wouldn't the main consideration be temperature? The house I grew up in had circulating hot water baseboard radiators with lots of receptacles above them...but it was built in the early 1950s...when power cords didn't melt? Or maybe the code committees had other things on their minds...like whether or not they'd begin allowing aluminum wiring. :blink:


----------

