# Merit shop - skill/pay progression?



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

No one can give you an answer, this depends not only on the area you are in and the laws that govern it, but also the individual contractor.

There are contractors who will send you to school, pay you as you progress, etc. Then there are other contractors that will use you like a laborer, just a pair of hands. 

It's like anything else in life. You can be a lawyer for a huge law firm, or you can work for a firm that has you chasing ambulances and drawing up divorces.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> No one can give you an answer, this depends not only on the area you are in and the laws that govern it, but also the individual contractor.
> 
> There are contractors who will send you to school, pay you as you progress, etc. Then there are other contractors that will use you like a laborer, just a pair of hands.
> 
> It's like anything else in life. You can be a lawyer for a huge law firm, or you can work for a firm that has you chasing ambulances and drawing up divorces.


I like you analogy!


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Some of it depends upon what you put into it, learning, and who you network with.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

SparkySparkyBoomMan said:


> I'm looking into becoming an apprentice at a merit shop in my area, I was just curious about the rate for progressing from apprentice to Journeyman? Is it based on skill/how fast you learn? Is hard work rewarded or do your bosses try to keep you at apprentice level as long as possible? Sorry if this seems like a silly question but I've worked other jobs where management didn't want you advancing at all.
> 
> Also the only reason I wanted to know if pay rate increases with skill level is because I'm taking a pay cut to learn this, I know pay will increase eventually but is it like years or months or what? And I just would like to plan a budget around that. Thank you for any help.


You just have to take whatever they offer. The journeyman pay is whatever you can get for yourself.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

IMO he needs to get into some type of training program whether he or the employer pays for it. That might include a two year technology degree from a technical school (night classes maybe) or NCCR (see link below), moving where he can get the training. Shoot for becoming a commercial or industrial electrician (not residential).

https://www.nccer.org/


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Which apprenticeship program are you looking at? ABC? NECA? NIETC? You'll probably have to register with your states DIR/labor board as an apprentice while you're in school. Normally, it's a 5 year program, with annual pay raises depending on an evaluation report. But, merit shops don't pay anywhere near a union shop, and your benefits, health care, and pension are most probably non-existent. And, you'll probably have to pay for the school yourself.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> IMO he needs to get into some type of training program whether he or the employer pays for it. That might include a two year technology degree from a technical school (night classes maybe) or NCCR (see link below), moving where he can get the training. Shoot for becoming a commercial or industrial electrician (not residential).
> 
> https://www.nccer.org/


I would caution against taking out a loan for a $30.000 course that provides a worthless certificate.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> I would caution against taking out a loan for a $30.000 course that provides a worthless certificate.


I agree. You have to check it all out & decide is it worthless, take a few courses or just get some ideas. I'm just throwing out ideas. I never had any formal training (not even an apprenticeship), but, it would've helped.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> I agree. You have to check it all out & decide is it worthless, take a few courses or just get some ideas. I'm just throwing out ideas. I never had any formal training (not even an apprenticeship), but, it would've helped.


This comment is proof that OJT is paramount in our trade.
An entry level person does not need a single thing but the ability to follow instructions, have good mechanical ability and a strong work ethic.

I took on two green apprentices last year. 
One was very personable, 30 years old, jaded past, couldn't get to work on time and had very little ability to work with tools or follow instructions. He appeared completely green but had been in the trade as a CE for more than a year. They used him as a driver and a shop boy. He just didn't have it in him. Failed a background check, we Let him go.

Second one. 20 year old. Nice kid but grew up in queens, had been shot, it broke his leg and exited his gut, talked like a street thug. Green as could be. Didn't know a coupling from a strap.
But, he could work. He was always early to the point he was in charge of getting the gang boxes open and making coffee. He would have buttermilk biscuits waiting for us if we had an oven.
He was always dirty hoping right into anything he was told to do. And some how, working on cars or something, he could use tools. He knew how not to burn up a hole saw or bit, quickly learned how to drill concrete and set anchors. 
When he came in early he would practice bending small pipe.

Fortunately for both of them they are in a very good JATC program. 
My point is you need some mechanical ability and work ethic and you have to take that to the very best opportunity you can find.

My first guy might find a big job here and there to hide on for his career. He's a hustler with little field ability, he might end up in management. :smile:

Second one, we will keep cutting a polishing him. He's going to be a money maker for us.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I suppose it would help to know what state and what the classroom requirements are if any. I too would be really leery of taking on any student debt. I think in the end, the only thing that sets you apart from your peers is the debt you have. Having some class time in the evenings covering math, code, wiring methods, is probably going to help out during the day, but not worth great expense.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

SparkySparkyBoomMan said:


> I'm looking into becoming an apprentice at a merit shop in my area, I was just curious about the rate for progressing from apprentice to Journeyman? Is it based on skill/how fast you learn? Is hard work rewarded or do your bosses try to keep you at apprentice level as long as possible? Sorry if this seems like a silly question but I've worked other jobs where management didn't want you advancing at all.
> 
> Also the only reason I wanted to know if pay rate increases with skill level is because I'm taking a pay cut to learn this, I know pay will increase eventually but is it like years or months or what? And I just would like to plan a budget around that. Thank you for any help.



2 Factors that come to mind are:

1. The shop you are looking to work for
2. Your work ethic


I have found that the better people rise to the top, and the ones that don't complain all day long.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

From other posts the OP is from Illinois.

Apprentice in the non-union sector is used loosely.
There is no state regulation requiring electrical worker registration or licensing.
Only need a license to pull a permit.
Everyone else there is 0 safety, licenses, certs, or training requirements.

There is no standard for pay raises in that area.
It's what you can negotiate. 
More often than not you'll be promised more later.
If you do get it is another thing.

As you learn and become more useful it's on you to step up to the boss and ask for more. If you're constantly having bad days or making mistakes then you may want to wait and just hold on to the job.

Some EC will take advantage of this idea. Everyday abuse you. Make you fell like you really messed up or did something wrong. Just to justify not paying you more later.

Or you got the you'll get a pay raise next week EC. But the week never comes.

Kinda boils down to how long they need you. To finish a job or ongoing.

My advise for IL.
Go to work. As you learn and perform better ask for more. But at some point you will need to look for another company for a pay raise. Then repeat.

Sometimes no matter how much you learn and years you do, you can't get past some still thinking of you as a person that just started an knows nothing. But by going to the next company after a while you start over with opinions.


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## emahler (Oct 13, 2011)

active1 said:


> From other posts the OP is from Illinois.
> 
> Apprentice in the non-union sector is used loosely.
> There is no state regulation requiring electrical worker registration or licensing.
> ...


to add to this...the company doesn't actually pay you anything...the client does. If you are not earning enough from the client to cover the cost of what you want to earn...2 options:

1) generate more income

2) move to a different company that can generate more income from you...

good luck


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

There's probably not a whole lot of standardized pay progression at most companies. Speaking non union, can't speak to the union side of things. When I wanted a raise, I asked for one. I don't see this a bad thing. While you need to take care of those you work for, show up, do your work, etc, you need to look out for yourself and direct where you're headed. At least in this area, there's a shortage of good help, maybe where he's at too. Seemed to be a common concern at the trade show I was just at. Hopefully, if where you're currently working isn't cutting it, you can find something better without too much difficulty.


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