# Cutler Hammer CH or BR



## HackWork

CH CH is said to be one of the best panels. I used QO in my own home but I would have been happy with CH just the same. 

Customers get Murray :whistling2:

There's nothing wrong with the BR series, but in your own home go for the CH series.


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## flyboy

HackWork said:


> CH CH is said to be one of the best panels. I used QO in my own home but I would have been happy with CH just the same.
> 
> Customers get Murray :whistling2:
> 
> There's nothing wrong with the BR series, but in your own home go for the CH series.


I'll be returning those BRs for the CHs

Thanks!


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## papaotis

from what ive seen in the stores, i think ch, eaton, bryant , and maybe some others are all made by the same company. will check farther on this unless someone here already has the enswer.:001_huh:


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## lechelm

flyboy said:


> Its been almost 30 years, maybe longer, since I've used CH. I just found out that that my local supplier is now carrying Cutler Hammer. :thumbup:
> 
> So, because I really liked CH back in the day and since I'm doing a major renovation at my house, along with a panel change, I thought I'd get one.
> 
> Well, it don't look anything like the CH panel I knew.
> 
> I've got the BR series 200 amp 40/40 and a BR series 200 amp 30/30 MLO for my new garage.
> 
> Did a little search on here and found out there is a CH series.
> 
> Is the CH series a better panel?
> 
> Does the CH series have a copper bus?
> 
> Should I bring back the BR stuff and exchange it for the CH stuff?


I believe that the CH series does have a copper bus, IMHO, I use the BR series all the time for residential, they work just fine, and are much cheaper than the CH. Not sure, but the breaker mechanism is probably the same, so the biggest difference is aluminum vs copper bus


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## flyboy

lechelm said:


> I believe that the CH series does have a copper bus, IMHO, I use the BR series all the time for residential, they work just fine, and are much cheaper than the CH. Not sure, but the breaker mechanism is probably the same, so the biggest difference is aluminum vs copper bus


The BR series looks like a nice panel, its just that its for my own home and you know how that goes.


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## lechelm

another note, CH breakers have a lifetime warranty, BR is 10 years


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## flyboy

lechelm said:


> another note, CH breakers have a lifetime warranty, BR is 10 years


Thanks for the heads up.


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## gold

The CH CH has a silver plated copper bus.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ersandCircuitBreakers/CHLoadcenters/index.htm

IMO Its the best residential panel on the market.


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## HARRY304E

Goldagain said:


> The CH CH has a silver plated copper bus.
> 
> http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ersandCircuitBreakers/CHLoadcenters/index.htm
> 
> IMO Its the best residential panel on the market.


Silver plated copper bus , I like how that sounds.:thumbup:


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## TOOL_5150

flyboy said:


> The BR series looks like a nice panel, its just that its for my own home and you know how that goes.


BR series panel is great, if you like a cheap buss, and cheap tub. if you're down to having to use Chinese money when using part of a concentric KO, then you might like these cheap pieces of ****. otherwise, you should upgrade to something like Murray, or higher quality.


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## flyboy

HARRY304E said:


> Silver plated copper bus , I like how that sounds.:thumbup:


Sounds like it could of been the name of a song from the 60's Harry. :laughing:


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## David046

I thought BR was the push in type and CH was the bolt on type. Looks like I'm wrong!

When does one typically spec a bolt on type breaker panel?


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## flyboy

David046 said:


> I thought BR was the push in type and CH was the bolt on type. Looks like I'm wrong!
> 
> When does one typically spec a bolt on type breaker panel?


Commercial and industrial applications where it is typically specked by the engineers. 

Has anyone ever seen a bolt on in a residential application? I don't think I ever have.


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## David046

flyboy said:


> Commercial and industrial applications where it is typically specked by the engineers.
> 
> Has anyone ever seen a bolt on in a residential application? I don't think I ever have.


But why do they spec them? 

I usually see bolt on in government buildings. I was just curious what one gets out of it other than more space in the panel and a very secure connection to the bus.


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## Southeast Power

Buying off of the shelf is completely different pricing than job pricing.

I'm sure you can get CH for the same or a better price than the BR off of the shelf.


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## flyboy

David046 said:


> But why do they spec them?
> 
> I usually see bolt on in government buildings. I was just curious what one gets out of it other than more space in the panel *and a very secure connection to the bus.*


For that reason I guess. Higher AIC?


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## Cletis

CH is far superior than BR. I'm on special pricing now with CH and 1/2 the time the panels I get end up being less than a BR now so it's a no brainer. The breakers especially are much better. Just feel and click them


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## 99cents

flyboy said:


> Commercial and industrial applications where it is typically specked by the engineers.
> 
> Has anyone ever seen a bolt on in a residential application? I don't think I ever have.


I did a renovation job on a house that was originally built by a commercial electrical contractor. It was a pleasure to work on. It had bolt-on breakers and the romex was even laid in cable tray in the unfinished basement.


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## hardworkingstiff

I didn't know this about CH series


> The 150-225 ampere main breakers are rated 35 kAIC, which gives electrical contractors flexibility to use the standard product in a wide variety of applications.


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## hardworkingstiff

To me, the question should be which manufacturer is having the least amount of trouble with AFCI breakers.

I really don't know if there is a difference or not (since I don't do residential), but if there was, I'd want the one that is having the least problems.


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## hardworkingstiff

Goldagain said:


> The CH CH has a silver plated copper bus.
> 
> http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ersandCircuitBreakers/CHLoadcenters/index.htm


Where did you see the silver plating statement? I looked in the technical section of your link and it said it was a copper buss with tin plated copper fingers (for the breakers)?


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## HackWork

hardworkingstiff said:


> Where did you see the silver plating statement? I looked in the technical section of your link and it said it was a copper buss with tin plated copper fingers (for the breakers)?


Second bullet down:

_One-piece silver flash plated copper bus provides superior conductivity throughout the entire product line._


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## parnellelectric

My 2 cents. I have used CH and BR off and on for over 10 years. Eaton gear has a arc fault fault false tripping problem. Of course if you talk to them they will say there is no problem, and if there was a problem the new redesign will fix it. Square D has a fraction of the problems.....


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## SVT CAMR

Get the CH CH with surge protection built in. The main is very nice (35K) and it is bolted into the buss. Alao get the single pole and double pole breakers that have with the flag trip window. (like square D) They did not come in 40a 2 pole last I checked. 

When you order you need to buy the cover separately. Recessed and surface versions. Pm me if you need part numbers. I can dig them up later. The 200a 42/42 with surge was about $225 the 100a 24 circuit with surge was around 170ish. Flag trip breakers... single poles were around $3 ish ea and 2 poles $7 ish

the panel part # off the top of my head start with "chsur"
I installed 2 of these and they are very nice. When it comes time to do my home this is what I will get.


This is a smaller panel but comes in a 200 42 space or 200 60 space too! 100 amp 24 space and 32 space too.


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## SVT CAMR

here is a 200 42/42.


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## SVT CAMR

And 1 more from the supply house that I had on my phone. 

You can see even the mains have different ratings between BR an CH.

The only thing I did not like about these panels is the neutral bar has all the screws closed. Also best to use a square tip driver on these screws on the neutral bar too. Flat head ok but seems square head better. 

a BR 42, a CH 42 cir 200 and a CH 60 cir 200.

EDIT: Just looking at this pic the CH CH 60 space did not have the surge built in. Not sure if they make it like that. IDK!


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## SVT CAMR

parnellelectric said:


> My 2 cents. I have used CH and BR off and on for over 10 years. Eaton gear has a arc fault fault false tripping problem. Of course if you talk to them they will say there is no problem, and if there was a problem the new redesign will fix it.


I never knew this. That could be a deal breaker. No pun intended. :laughing:

I hear guys on here complaining about arc faults all the time. I know some guys here that do multiple new houses and never heard a thing about problems with arc faults. weird. Maybe it is the conduit opposed to the romex IDK.


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## Magnettica

I second and third the Cutler-Hammer CH line. The built-in surge protection is a nice thing to have. They also have nice interlock panel covers for their panels, interchangeable bus bars, and you can even order a CHCH panel with built-in automatic transfer switch! To me that's a really nice thing to have when you need room in some of these old houses. It's service rated so instead of having another huge enclosure somewhere it saves time, space, and labor. At this point I only install the BR line as an "economy" type installation. Btw, it should be noted that the CHBR circuit breakers have the CL listing from Underwriters so you can use them in several manufacturers panels and save much needed space on the shelves in the van.


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## VTL Sparky

Magnettica said:


> Btw, it should be noted that the CHBR circuit breakers have the CL listing from Underwriters so you can use them in several manufacturers panels and save much needed space on the shelves in the van.


Regular BR breakers do not have a CL listing, you have to get the BR-CL breakers specifically and they cost a few dollars more a piece than regular BR breakers even though they are exactly identical.


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## Laroc3

Lots if old bolt on panels where I work, commander or sylvania. eaton makes the breakers for these. There a cutler QBH breaker, and there expensive.


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## HackWork

VTL Sparky said:


> Regular BR breakers do not have a CL listing, you have to get the BR-CL breakers specifically and they cost a few dollars more a piece than regular BR breakers even though they are exactly identical.


This is true. Unfortunately I couldn't find them locally.

If you Google Cutler Hammer CL breaker you will find a PDF that shows every panel that it will work in, it would be good to print that out if you are going to use the breakers.


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## Magnettica

HackWork said:


> This is true. Unfortunately I couldn't find them locally.
> 
> If you Google Cutler Hammer CL breaker you will find a PDF that shows every panel that it will work in, it would be good to print that out if you are going to use the breakers.



Why, do you think there might be a clueless EI out there? :whistling2:


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## Norcal

David046 said:


> I thought BR was the push in type and CH was the bolt on type. Looks like I'm wrong!
> 
> When does one typically spec a bolt on type breaker panel?


 
Chiming in a bit late but there was the C-H, CHB bolt-on breakers, now obsolete, only thing I disliked about the CHB was their method of attaching to the bus, some times could be a real pain to take out. Cutler-Hammers also now obsolete PB panel board could also accept plug in type CH or CHB bolt on breakers.

If was comparing 30 year old SQ D QO loadcenters & Cutler-Hammer type CH loadcenters I would give a slight edge to QO because of the Visi-Trip® feature, both were well built products, today my first choice is the CH loadcenter because they have not been cheaped out as bad as SQ D QO. Second choice is Siemens.


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## flyboy

SVT CAMR said:


> Get the CH CH with surge protection built in. The main is very nice (35K) and it is bolted into the buss. Alao get the single pole and double pole breakers that have with the flag trip window. (like square D) They did not come in 40a 2 pole last I checked.
> 
> When you order you need to buy the cover separately. Recessed and surface versions. Pm me if you need part numbers. I can dig them up later. The 200a 42/42 with surge was about $225 the 100a 24 circuit with surge was around 170ish. Flag trip breakers... single poles were around $3 ish ea and 2 poles $7 ish
> 
> the panel part # off the top of my head start with "chsur"
> I installed 2 of these and they are very nice. When it comes time to do my home this is what I will get.
> 
> 
> This is a smaller panel but comes in a 200 42 space or 200 60 space too! 100 amp 24 space and 32 space too.


Thanks for the info! 

I went with the factory built in surge protected panel. 

I cannot find the CH breakers with the "flagged trip window" in the catalog. Do you have a catalog number on those? Is the "flagged trip window" feature (like the SDQO line) only available in he CH line on the AFCI's/GFCI's?

Speaking of which, I'm a little confused about the AFCIs and the GFCI's. 

What is the difference between the CH115AF and CH115AFGF. Is the CH115AFGF a combination AFCI/GFCI? 
Also, have you used the "Next Generation Combination Arc Fault Interrupters"?
What's the difference between the one with the pigtail and the one with the "Plug on Neutral?

Here's what I have listed, but not ordered yet:


(1) CHSUR42B200L2 Description: Single-Phase Main Breaker Loadcenter With Factory Surge Suppression 
Indoor Single-Phase 3-Wire 120/240 VAC – Factory Bonded Split Neutral

(1) CHSUR8LS Description: Loadcenter Cover Surface Mount 

(1) CH32L150D Description: Single Phase – Main Lug Loadcenter 42,000/100,000 Amperes Interrupting Capacity
Single Phase 3 Wire 120/240 VAC – Insulated /Bondable Neutral

(1) CH8DF Description: Load Center Cover – Combination 

(1) CH2100 Description: 2 - Pole 120/240 150 AMP Breaker

(15) CH115 Description: 1 - Pole 120/240 15 AMP Breaker

(15) CH120 Description: 1 - Pole 120/240 20 AMP Breaker

(6) 15 amp AFCI's Catalog # ??
(2) 15 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
(2) 20 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
(1) 60 amp GFCI Catalog # ??

Thanks for your help on this.


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## sbrn33

flyboy said:


> Its been almost 30 years, maybe longer, since I've used CH. I just found out that that my local supplier is now carrying Cutler Hammer. :thumbup:
> 
> So, because I really liked CH back in the day and since I'm doing a major renovation at my house, along with a panel change, I thought I'd get one.
> 
> Well, it don't look anything like the CH panel I knew.
> 
> I've got the BR series 200 amp 40/40 and a BR series 200 amp 30/30 MLO for my new garage.
> 
> Did a little search on here and found out there is a CH series.
> 
> Is the CH series a better panel?
> 
> Does the CH series have a copper bus?
> 
> Should I bring back the BR stuff and exchange it for the CH stuff?


Yes, yes you should.


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## flyboy

sbrn33 said:


> Yes, yes you should.


That's what I'm a gunna do. :thumbsup:


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## 8V71

flyboy said:


> That's what I'm a gunna do. :thumbsup:


I think you will be very pleased with the CH style panel. I wanted to use one also but the panel I have to use only has 8 spaces and evidently there is no such thing as half space CH breakers.


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## sbrn33

8V71 said:


> I think you will be very pleased with the CH style panel. I wanted to use one also but the panel I have to use only has 8 spaces and evidently there is no such thing as half space CH breakers.


Actually there is.


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## Awg-Dawg

flyboy said:


> I've got the BR series 200 amp 40/40 and a BR series 200 amp 30/30 MLO for my new garage.


 
Is your garage attached?


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## 8V71

sbrn33 said:


> Actually there is.


I'm all ears. Any hints to help me find them?

Edit: Nevermind...easy to find with a google search. Why would I think they would be listed in the CH breaker catalog. What a stupid place to look. :laughing:


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## gotshokd666

flyboy said:


> Speaking of which, I'm a little confused about the AFCIs and the GFCI's.
> 
> What is the difference between the CH115AF and CH115AFGF. Is the CH115AFGF a combination AFCI/GFCI?
> Also, have you used the "Next Generation Combination Arc Fault Interrupters"?
> What's the difference between the one with the pigtail and the one with the "Plug on Neutral?
> 
> Here's what I have listed, but not ordered yet:


The one with the plug on neutral makes it much neater. No pigtails flying all over the place...


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## flyboy

Awg-Dawg said:


> Is your garage attached?


Yes, with a big man cave above...:thumbup:


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## flyboy

gotshokd666 said:


> The one with the plug on neutral makes it much neater. No pigtails flying all over the place...


Yeah...ok, that's what I thought it was. I don't like the curly cues either. 

Thanks :thumbsup:


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## backstay

flyboy said:


> Yeah...ok, that's what I thought it was. I don't like the curly cues either.
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:


Go with the newest arcfault breaker, it has diagnostic lights and can save you when you get a bad breaker(it has for me).


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## SVT CAMR

flyboy said:


> Thanks for the info!


 You sat on the phone with me educating me about the basics in business. No thank you Sir. 



flyboy said:


> I went with the factory built in surge protected panel.


 You did the right thing.



flyboy said:


> I cannot find the CH breakers with the "flagged trip window" in the catalog. Do you have a catalog number on those?


CHF115 (SP15a breaker) CHF120 (SP 20a breaker) CHF230 (2 pole 30a beaker) CHF240 (2 pole 40a breaker) I think a 2 pole 20 amp would be CHF220! and a 2pole 15 would be CHF215! Also not sure if you can get them in 2 pole 50a and above. Thats what the supply house said. I would check that out. 



flyboy said:


> Is the "flagged trip window" feature (like the SDQO line) only available in he CH line on the AFCI's/GFCI's?
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm a little confused about the AFCIs and the GFCI's.
> 
> What is the difference between the CH115AF and CH115AFGF. Is the CH115AFGF a combination AFCI/GFCI?
> Also, have you used the "Next Generation Combination Arc Fault Interrupters"?


Sorry I do not know the answer.


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## Norcal

8V71 said:


> I think you will be very pleased with the CH style panel. I wanted to use one also but the panel I have to use only has 8 spaces and evidently there is no such thing as half space CH breakers.





sbrn33 said:


> Actually there is.


 
But none of the older type CH panels are listed to accept the twin breakers.

Only the spaces with the extended tabs as shown below on the lower part of the panel interior can properly accept the twins. 




They will plug into the bus stabs but flop around where they should be firmly attached to the tabs.


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## 8V71

Norcal said:


> But none of the older type CH panels are listed to accept the twin breakers.
> 
> Only the spaces with the extended tabs as shown below on the lower part of the panel interior can properly accept the twins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will plug into the bus stabs but flop around where they should be firmly attached to the tabs.


What perfect timing for that pic Norcal. After I found the tandems I double checked the panel I want to order and found out it won't accept them. Your pic is the exact same bus style that is in my panel and I have been looking for pics to see the difference between tandem and standard spaces. Siemens and QO have the 8/16 configuration so it's back to one of those manufacturers.

The first CH tandem I found with Google BTW said it was for a 1968 or older panel I think? I don't know what that was all about but it was somehow different.:001_huh:


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## SVT CAMR

flyboy said:


> (6) 15 amp AFCI's Catalog # ??
> (2) 15 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
> (2) 20 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
> (1) 60 amp GFCI Catalog # ??
> 
> Thanks for your help on this.


Here are some afci and gfi part numbers.

CHFCAF115PN (15a AFCI Plug in style)
CHFCAF120PN (20a AFCI Plug in style)

CHFGF115PN (15a GFCI Plug in style)
CHFGF120PN (20a GFCI Plug in style)
CHFGF125PN (25a GFCI Plug in style)
CHFGF130PN (30a GFCI Plug in style)

here is a link to CH's website. specifically for single phase load centers and circuit breakers. just scroll down for everything you would ever want to know.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@electrical/documents/content/vol01_tab01.pdf

BTW ths CHF breakers are in this also so it is a updated version. I did notice the flag trip breakers go up to 50a (CHF250).

EDIT: After looking at this link further and seeing how they produce part numbers. you may need the letters "PN" (for "plug in neutral" if those are the load centers you're looking to do.) in the part number. If you look at the link you will see what I mean. like a VIN number on a car for different options.


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## Sparky J

Flyboy I do like the CH CH style panels I use them more than Qo when I can. The other reason I like them is that according to one old timer at a supply house I frequent they have the lowest failure rates in the industry. 

SVT what supplier do you use for the CH surge panels? I like them but here Rexel is who has them and they are $$$$$.


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## SVT CAMR

Sparky J said:


> Flyboy I do like the CH CH style panels I use them more than Qo when I can. The other reason I like them is that according to one old timer at a supply house I frequent they have the lowest failure rates in the industry.
> 
> SVT what supplier do you use for the CH surge panels? I like them but here Rexel is who has them and they are $$$$$.


http://platinumelectricsupply.com/contact_us
They are located in Streamwood, IL.
630-736-1980 
The surge panel will need to be ordered. (Usually 1 week turn around) Maybe they can drop ship it to you from the factory. I believe they said it comes from N. Carolina.


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## GEORGE D

flyboy said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> I went with the factory built in surge protected panel.
> 
> I cannot find the CH breakers with the "flagged trip window" in the catalog. Do you have a catalog number on those? Is the "flagged trip window" feature (like the SDQO line) only available in he CH line on the AFCI's/GFCI's?
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm a little confused about the AFCIs and the GFCI's.
> 
> What is the difference between the CH115AF and CH115AFGF. Is the CH115AFGF a combination AFCI/GFCI?
> Also, have you used the "Next Generation Combination Arc Fault Interrupters"?
> What's the difference between the one with the pigtail and the one with the "Plug on Neutral?
> 
> Here's what I have listed, but not ordered yet:
> 
> (1) CHSUR42B200L2 Description: Single-Phase Main Breaker Loadcenter With Factory Surge Suppression
> Indoor Single-Phase 3-Wire 120/240 VAC &#150; Factory Bonded Split Neutral
> 
> (1) CHSUR8LS Description: Loadcenter Cover Surface Mount
> 
> (1) CH32L150D Description: Single Phase &#150; Main Lug Loadcenter 42,000/100,000 Amperes Interrupting Capacity
> Single Phase 3 Wire 120/240 VAC &#150; Insulated /Bondable Neutral
> 
> (1) CH8DF Description: Load Center Cover &#150; Combination
> 
> (1) CH2100 Description: 2 - Pole 120/240 150 AMP Breaker
> 
> (15) CH115 Description: 1 - Pole 120/240 15 AMP Breaker
> 
> (15) CH120 Description: 1 - Pole 120/240 20 AMP Breaker
> 
> (6) 15 amp AFCI's Catalog # ??
> (2) 15 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
> (2) 20 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
> (1) 60 amp GFCI Catalog # ??
> 
> Thanks for your help on this.


What was the cost if you don't mind me asking? I got a quote from my supplier for a CH CH 200 MB 42 with detached SPD for $316. SVT seems to get awesome pricing and mentioned something coming from NC, chime in please SVT...


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## SVT CAMR

Those were 2012 prices. I went back to being an employee now. I remember waiting for a panel I ordered and they said it comes from the Carolina's. that's all I got. Obviously the more you buy the better the pricing. Cash credit will also impact the sale.

I remember seing this panel from another member on here in Jersey. I fell in love with it and though I can charge a lot of money if I use that panel. It was part of being and offering something different than all the other contractors.


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## Norcal

flyboy said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> I went with the factory built in surge protected panel.
> 
> I cannot find the CH breakers with the "flagged trip window" in the catalog. Do you have a catalog number on those? Is the "flagged trip window" feature (like the SDQO line) only available in he CH line on the AFCI's/GFCI's?
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm a little confused about the AFCIs and the GFCI's.
> 
> What is the difference between the CH115AF and CH115AFGF. Is the CH115AFGF a combination AFCI/GFCI?
> Also, have you used the "Next Generation Combination Arc Fault Interrupters"?
> What's the difference between the one with the pigtail and the one with the "Plug on Neutral?
> 
> Here's what I have listed, but not ordered yet:
> 
> 
> (1) CHSUR42B200L2 Description: Single-Phase Main Breaker Loadcenter With Factory Surge Suppression
> Indoor Single-Phase 3-Wire 120/240 VAC – Factory Bonded Split Neutral
> 
> (1) CHSUR8LS Description: Loadcenter Cover Surface Mount
> 
> (1) CH32L150D Description: Single Phase – Main Lug Loadcenter 42,000/100,000 Amperes Interrupting Capacity
> Single Phase 3 Wire 120/240 VAC – Insulated /Bondable Neutral
> 
> (1) CH8DF Description: Load Center Cover – Combination
> 
> *(1) CH2100 Description: 2 - Pole 120/240 150 AMP Breaker*
> 
> (15) CH115 Description: 1 - Pole 120/240 15 AMP Breaker
> 
> (15) CH120 Description: 1 - Pole 120/240 20 AMP Breaker
> 
> (6) 15 amp AFCI's Catalog # ??
> (2) 15 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
> (2) 20 amp GFCI's Catalog # ??
> (1) 60 amp GFCI Catalog # ??
> 
> Thanks for your help on this.


A CH2100 is a 100A 2-pole breaker, is the panel even listed to accept 150A breakers???


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## 8V71

Norcal said:


> A CH2100 is a 100A 2-pole breaker, is the panel even listed to accept 150A breakers???


CH2150 is a 150 amp breaker that uses 4 spaces.


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