# Pictures 5000K 85, 90 & 98 CRI fluorescent+ 6500K LED



## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

I decided to take a few since what I can find is just color chip comparison.

CRI is calculated based on how it renders eight standard color chips, hence "Ra8". Its easier to compare on spec sheets, but they don't always tell you the true story. 

Different color temperatures look different immediately, but you can usually fool the sensor by adjusting the white balance. Sometimes you can't even fool the sensor. 

You can't even tell the difference on standard colors, but things in reality look different enough you can't even fool the digital camera. 

natural/organic: food
art: neodymium glass. 
pigment: packaging, tape etc. 

In this order... they're all 5,000K lamps, except the LED
Sylvania Octron 850, 85CRI Sylvania Design 50, 90CRI

Philips 950, 98 CRI CREE X-Lamp 7090 LED ~6,500K or so? (readjusted white bal for LED) 

Some decorations as well as GE Reveal bulbs are made of neodymium glass. There are other things that look different, but it looks pale blue without any hint of purple under triphosphor (like Octron 850 and common CFLs). 


"full spectrum" like Design 50 is horribly inefficient, but they do have their place. I suppose its better for making things look closer to they look in daylight, but whether you prefer to see the same glass art piece in pale blue or pale purple is a matter of personal opinion.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

ok, I give. now I'm hungry. I'll be back shortly.

(btw, I can't see the difference)


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I can see all the products so all the lamps are good. 

I guess I am just missing you're point.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

How about some camera data, especially what the white balance settings were?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> How about some camera data, especially what the white balance settings were?


bingo:whistling2:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

The wraps look 4 different colors to me


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Look at the light bulb in picture. I can see the difference right away from picture 1 vs 2 or 3.

Between 2 and 3, I can't tell.

It's a Panasonic P&S digital camera. LZ1 
Camera was manually set to fixed white point by aiming at the white background prior to taking the picture to prevent the camera from adjusting color temperature based on whats in the picture. 

The neodymium glass' difference is obvious to me. Do you guys not see that its only pale blue in Octron, but look like another color of glass with a hint of ruby red in other two?


From Design 50 and natural sunlight, neodymium glass looks similar. 
The pale green/blue occurs only under tri phosphor lighting.

Octron 850, triphosphor at top
Design 50 "full spectrum" 90 CRI in between 
In these two, everything stayed the same except for light source.

then i should have incuded this in first post.. under natural light at bottom


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

So you're saying the camera doesn't adjust white balance automatically?


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So you're saying the camera doesn't adjust white balance automatically?


It can, but for a purpose like this, I disable the auto white balance, so it won't continuously try to adjust and mess up the controlled test.

The neodymium glass loses all of its pale ruby red appearance under trichromatic light.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Electric_Light said:


> It can, but for purpose like this, it can get confused. If half the frame sees the chunk of meet, and the other half white back ground, it will continuously try to adjust to even the two out. It would mess up this controlled test.
> 
> The neodymium glass loses all of its pale ruby red appearance under trichromatic light.


Then what you need is a camera that can set the white balance manually, not automatically. That's the only way you can record the difference in the lighting.

Even so, digital photography is still pretty much limited to 16,777,216 (256³) colors. The human eye and brain can detect an infinite amount of colors.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Then what you need is a camera that can set the *white balance manually*, not automatically. That's the only way you can record the difference in the lighting.


That's what I did. There's "auto", various pre-sets, and manual.

For manual,you aim at a blank white target, then push a button to set as "white". It stayed at the same setting for the entire test.

It won't give you any numeric data, at least not this camera. 



> Even so, digital photography is still pretty much limited to 16,777,216 (256³) colors. The human eye and brain can detect an infinite amount of colors.


Right. The color difference of neodymium glass is obvious to naked eyes and its obvious enough it'll clearly get captured on camera too.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Electric_Light said:


> ..............It won't give you any numeric data, at least not this camera...........


Yes it does. You just need to know how and where to look. All you would need is the original image.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

...and then we can talk about color/white/grey balancing our monitors. It's going to look different on any computer monitor unless it has been professionally balanced


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I like the picture with the Led light the best


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I guess this is cool for lighting nerds, but luckily for me, I don't usually have to spec this stuff. My troffers get 4100K lamps, unless someone spec's differently. Incandescents... I couldn't care less about.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> ...and then we can talk about color/white/grey balancing our monitors. It's going to look different on any computer monitor unless it has been professionally balanced


The same jpg file on two different monitors may look different, but the same file will look the same on same monitor.

If different files look different on the same monitor, there is a difference. 

Get a Reveal light bulb or some art piece made of neodymium glass, then look at it under 2700K CFL vs a regular light bulb. The difference will be clear as it is in a picture. 

Unless we only stay awake during daylight, it is electric lighting that allows us to be able to see things in the dark


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Troll :ban:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Troll :ban:


Or PWI.:thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Or PWI.:thumbsup:



You are right Ken you are always right.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> You are right Ken you are always right.


'Cause I am.......... The Tool! :laughing:


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

all this to convince people to buy more LED lamps? 

I'm interested once they aren't $70 plus a linear lamp.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> all this to convince people to buy more LED lamps?
> 
> I'm interested once they aren't $70 plus a linear lamp.


I'm not the one to endorse LEDs... if you've read my previous posts.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Yeah, I think I caught that later. I found it interesting that the local Walmart uses 5000k lamps over the whole store EXCEPT the meat section. They use either 2700 or 3500k there for the effect. The color of lighting and it's effect on sales is practically a science. I'm constantly amazed how we can lower wattage as much as we do and have the light look better just due to CRI. Until you see it first hand, you just don't believe it.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> Yeah, I think I caught that later. I found it interesting that the local Walmart uses 5000k lamps over the whole store EXCEPT the meat section. They use either 2700 or 3500k there for the effect. The color of lighting and it's effect on sales is practically a science. I'm constantly amazed how we can lower wattage as much as we do and have the light look better just due to CRI. Until you see it first hand, you just don't believe it.


Are you sure they're regular 2700 or 3500k lamps? Accurate rendition and optimistic distortion (as in the case of GE Reveal) are different things. There are special red-doped meat case lamps that enrich red to distort the color to look more desirable.

Here's an example. These are made at their Warren, PA factory, so they're not "import". 
http://www.interlectric.com/Market_Lite_Ultra.pdf

Although CCTs and CRIs are similar, these lamps are not quite the same as the normal RE741 and RE841 lamps.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Interesting. They are at 20-25', so not sure. Wouldn't doubt it though.


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## dutchparson (Jun 17, 2010)

I like the 3rd image more... I not a light bulb nerd, but I like it...


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## Tapeman (Feb 24, 2009)

Buy a camera that shoots RAW, you can adjust the white balance after taking the shot. 

BTW 5500 degrees K is about the same as daylight.


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