# GFCI vs Cell Charger design flaw.



## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

So help me out here... Is the describtion in the attached PDF a design flaw of one, the other, or both? (FYI - that goop - is "Goop" - I glued them together with...)


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I don't have a folding plug to play with so: Why would a folding plug allow for more of an insertion angle than any other style of plug?

It almost sounds like a design flaw in the receptacle.

-John


----------



## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

Big John said:


> I don't have a folding plug to play with so: Why would a folding plug allow for more of an insertion angle than any other style of plug?
> 
> It almost sounds like a design flaw in the receptacle.
> 
> -John


Most folding prongs on these type chargers fold toward the long end of the body of the charger. This one, folds toward the short end, allowing deeper insertion at an awkward angle - I tried it both ways with other chargers and it could not have made contact inside otherwise. With the prongs high up toward, and folding toward the short side of the charger body - you can get nearly full insertion to the outlet at almost 45 degrees. (Mashing and sweeping around the inside of the outlet as you do so.)

That said - even a regular plug could have done it - but you would have more control over how it went in, and since most outlets are polarized - the larger/wider neutral prong would have made contact first (tripping the GFCI) and acted as a guard from contact with the hot and grounded strap. The charger is not polarized...

I'm leaning toward a combination of both - but yes, no doubt a design flaw of one the other or both. I have not taken apart every receptical - but at least two so far this could happen with.

(FYI - this happened in someones hand - showering sparks across a bath vanity late at night and put them in the dark...)


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

e57 said:


> ...That said - even a regular plug could have done it - but you would have more control over how it went in....


 That's what I was curious about. I honestly don't attribute it to a design flaw in the folding plug. My thinking here: A receptacle should be so designed that no usual technique for inserting a mating plug would cause a dead short. 

If putting the plug in at 45 degrees creates a significant hazard, I would think that the receptacle would be designed to reject a plug inserted in that fashion. With the tens of thousands of things plugged in every day of course a number of them are not going to be straight in for whatever reason.

I don't quite see how polarizing the plug prevents that problem, but with the increasing number of unpolarized power supplies we're seeing, I almost think that's a moot point.

Do you have a make and model on the receptacle? I wonder if it was a phony UL listing.

-John


----------



## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

Big John said:


> That's what I was curious about. I honestly don't attribute it to a design flaw in the folding plug. My thinking here: A receptacle should be so designed that no usual technique for inserting a mating plug would cause a dead short.
> 
> If putting the plug in at 45 degrees creates a significant hazard, I would think that the receptacle would be designed to reject a plug inserted in that fashion. With the tens of thousands of things plugged in every day of course a number of them are not going to be straight in for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


Not looking to throw P&S under the bus just yet (Since it most likely is a now obsolete design) - because I also am showing the same issue with another off market/unknown brand apparently listed by ETL. And just now - taking a few stabs into a regular outlet it looks like the same could happen??? What does that mean??? Jambing stuff into outlets in a wierd way can create a short? This is why I was leaning toward a combination of coincidental design flaws - foldy prongs & unguarded grounded surface inside, no matter how small or placed inside....

The Leviton one I just took apart it coulld not happen with - the area is guarded from contact with the prongs and yoke.


----------



## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

Big John said:


> That's what I was curious about. I honestly don't attribute it to a design flaw in the folding plug. My thinking here: A receptacle should be so designed that no usual technique for inserting a mating plug would cause a dead short.
> 
> If putting the plug in at 45 degrees creates a significant hazard, I would think that the receptacle would be designed to reject a plug inserted in that fashion. With the tens of thousands of things plugged in every day of course a number of them are not going to be straight in for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


 FYI with a polarized set of prongs it did not make contact on the hot side.


----------

