# Noalox (anti-oxidant)



## raider1

110.3(B) you only need to use an antioxidant compound if the manufacturer requires its use. Either the wire manufacture or the equipment manufacture.

Most likely you will not need to use it.

Chris


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## kennydmeek

In my world if it's aluminum inspectors want to see it on there. Never seen one look to see if it's actually at point of contact... They just want to see it...


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## raider1

kennydmeek said:


> In my world if it's aluminum inspectors want to see it on there. Never seen one look to see if it's actually at point of contact... They just want to see it...


There are lots of inspectors that want to see NoAlox smeared all over the lugs but that does not mean that it is required.

Chris


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## BuzzKill

raider1 said:


> There are lots of inspectors that want to see NoAlox smeared all over the lugs but that does not mean that it is required.
> 
> Chris


and to really do it proper, you need to get into the individual conductors of the cable, not just the surface


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## McClary’s Electrical

BuzzKill said:


> and to really do it proper, you need to get into the individual conductors of the cable, not just the surface


Yep, that's why I peel the label off all my no ox. The instructions say to work it into the cable using Emory cloth. How many of us do that? I take off the label so an inspector wont pick the bottle up and read it, and then ask if I did that. So all my no ox bottles have no labels...


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## raider1

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yep, that's why I peel the label off all my no ox. The instructions say to work it into the cable using Emory cloth. How many of us do that? I take off the label so an inspector wont pick the bottle up and read it, and then ask if I did that. So all my no ox bottles have no labels...


Ask the inspector where NoAlox is required.

I have not seen any new panel manufactures that require the use of an antioxidant compound on the lugs when using Aluminum wire.

Chris


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## raider1

BuzzKill said:


> and to really do it proper, you need to get into the individual conductors of the cable, not just the surface


Exactly, I know of inspectors area my area that want to see NoAlox on all aluminum terminations and don't care if someone just applies the stuff on the lug after the wires are terminated.

Gooping antioxidant paste on a terminated lug is a huge waste of time and makes a hell of a mess. But that makes some inspectors all warm and fuzzy and able to sleep at night.

(End Rant)

Chris


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## NolaTigaBait

I have used a wire brush to put it on once...It makes a huge mess...I never even use the stuff anymore...but its funny everyone says that, b/c they all want to see it on the lugs like its a code or something...


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## nitro71

I dip my aluminum conductors in it. Doesn't cost much and could help some. Why not use it? Aluminum doesn't conduct well when it oxidizes. Compared to copper which does conduct when it oxidizes.


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## NolaTigaBait

nitro71 said:


> I dip my aluminum conductors in it. Doesn't cost much and could help some. Why not use it? Aluminum doesn't conduct well when it oxidizes. Compared to copper which does conduct when it oxidizes.


My understanding is doing that really does nothing. You need to use something abrasive to work it into the wire...


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## nitro71

NolaTigaBait said:


> My understanding is doing that really does nothing. You need to use something abrasive to work it into the wire...


I don't know, can't hurt. I figure I'm at least decreasing the chance of corrosion. I work the Noalox up to the wire insulation and try to get it on all the wire surface. I like the clearish stuff. The Ideal stuff is pretty nasty.

I've had good luck with coating my battery terminals with Permatex anti corrosion spray. I don't wire brush it on. I know not the same thing but it seems similar.


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## Mike in Canada

NolaTigaBait said:


> My understanding is doing that really does nothing. You need to use something abrasive to work it into the wire...


 You're not working it into the wire... you're removing the oxidation layer and the goop is not allowing it to re-form.


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## NolaTigaBait

Mike in Canada said:


> You're not working it into the wire... you're removing the oxidation layer and the goop is not allowing it to re-form.


There is always one. I'll leave it at that


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## 220/221

That's one of those things I just do instead of arguing about it. 

Just squeeze a dab after termination so they see it.


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## nitro71

One thing I hadn't thought about was the POCO doesn't use Noalox when they connect over head drops in my area. If it was a real problem you would think that you would see more problems with the overhead terminations. Maybe I am just wasting time and making a mess. Or maybe there is some of the stuff inside their connectors..


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## 76nemo

220/221 said:


> That's one of those things I just do instead of arguing about it.
> 
> Just squeeze a dab after termination so they see it.


 
You're looking to raise a few flags here, correct? I know you're not serious.


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## Jlarson

I haven't put noalox on lugs in quite a long time. Like Raider said usually not required. 



I've done the same as 220 if I'm dealing with an inspector I know will bitch and I just want the job passed and don't feel like arguing.


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## ralph

These guys are right.
Its a recomendation by some manufacturers. Or should I say - it used to be a recomendation by some manufacturers.

I use it. I dont know why I dont throw it away. Having the proper torque on the connections is much more important in my view.


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## backstay

I see it inside these. Thomas & Betts Blackburn Description:2-2 Serv Ent Splice


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## sparky970

We used Penetrox on high current DC buss (100KA), recommended because it has tiny metal filings emulsified in it.


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## BBQ

220/221 said:


> That's one of those things I just do instead of arguing about it.
> 
> Just squeeze a dab after termination so they see it.





76nemo said:


> You're looking to raise a few flags here, correct? I know you're not serious.


I don't know if he is but I have been known to do the same just to keep the inspectors happy.


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## Jlarson

BBQ said:


> I don't know if he is but I have been known to do the same just to keep the inspectors happy.


You hack, you should go all the way and undo your terminations and apply no-ox and maintain the industry standards, you are what is wrong with this trade.


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## BBQ

Jlarson said:


> you are what is wrong with this trade.


I know .........


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## McClary’s Electrical

raider1 said:


> Ask the inspector where NoAlox is required.
> 
> I have not seen any new panel manufactures that require the use of an antioxidant compound on the lugs when using Aluminum wire.
> 
> Chris


True, but i meant the dispute would be me using it wrong, not whether or not it's required.


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## Jlarson

BBQ said:


> I know .........


Good


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## BBQ

Jlarson said:


> Good



You hurt me deeply


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## Jlarson

That's the reason I'm here.





Ok actually I'm here cause I'm up early, aka before it's 115 out :laughing:


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## ChrisK

ralph said:


> These guys are right.
> Its a recomendation by some manufacturers. Or should I say - it used to be a recomendation by some manufacturers.
> 
> I use it. I dont know why I dont throw it away. Having the proper torque on the connections is much more important in my view.


Good point, using a torque wrench would prevent a lot more failures than de-ox. Oxide inhibitors help most if you have outdoor connections, especially with dissimilar metals because of humidity. So if you put copper conductors on common aluminum lugs, good practice would be to put oxide inhibitor on them, but manufacturers usually don't require it at all.


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## electricmanscott

Can anybody show anything that WOULD require it??


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## manchestersparky

mcclary's electrical said:


> True, but i meant the dispute would be me using it wrong, not whether or not it's required.


absolutely correct. noalox / deox / penatrox is not required by code.
The issue is when someone does use it. Even though its not a code requirement -when you do use it, you are required to apply it according to the manufactures instructions. Anything less is HACK.

Peeling the label off does not get one "off the hook". I have yet to meet an inspector who does not know how deox is to be installed. 
A smart inspector will require you to provide documentation from the manufacture if such documentation is missing from the package.


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## brian john

sparky970 said:


> We used Penetrox on high current DC buss (100KA), recommended because it has tiny metal filings emulsified in it.


REcommended by who and what is the logic in utilizing Penetrox.


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## sparky970

brian john said:


> REcommended by who and what is the logic in utilizing Penetrox.


This was recommended by a Canadian Engineer to our plant manager at the time.


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## brian john

sparky970 said:


> This was recommended by a Canadian Engineer to our plant manager at the time.


Most likely based on nothing but his personal beliefs. I have never read anything to back up his personal “SPECs"


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## sparky970

brian john said:


> Most likely based on nothing but his personal beliefs. I have never read anything to back up his personal “SPECs"


Agreed


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## donaldelectrician

*PENETROX on Docominiums*

I can say , I used it on 300 dock , Meter Power Post . Should work well

with corrosion . My call back then , but i think thats code . To protect

against corrosion . 




Donald " Outstanding Citizen of the Conch Republic "


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## juan0069

*This is a great thread... NOT*

I just LOVE how many posts there are here with tips on how to avoid doing a job correctly and still get it to pass inspection... WOW! I hope you aren't charging full price for your cut rate work! And don't EVEN start to snivel about all the unlicensed people out there cutting corners. 

I REALLY hope you ****s are an anomoly. I would really HATE to think that when I tell my customers that having my license means something and having their job done correctly is well worth the money in the long run, that somehow it may apply to jerk-offs like you as well. And I am REALLY sick of jerk-offs waving their license around like they know what they are doing, charging the high price, and just slapping some grease on there to fool the inspector

I wonder how many of these you guys caused... so far...? Wise up losers, you're not just making us look bad - you ARE BAD!

From Interfire.org
41,200 home structure fires per year are attributed to ‘electrical distribution.’ These electrical distribution fires account for 336 civilian deaths, 1446 civilian injuries, and $643.9 million in direct property damage per year.


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## 480sparky

juan0069 said:


> I just LOVE how many posts there are here with tips on how to avoid doing a job correctly and still get it to pass inspection... WOW! I hope you aren't charging full price for your cut rate work! And don't EVEN start to snivel about all the unlicensed people out there cutting corners.
> 
> I REALLY hope you ****s are an anomoly. I would really HATE to think that when I tell my customers that having my license means something and having their job done correctly is well worth the money in the long run, that somehow it may apply to jerk-offs like you as well. And I am REALLY sick of jerk-offs waving their license around like they know what they are doing, charging the high price, and just slapping some grease on there to fool the inspector
> 
> I wonder how many of these you guys caused... so far...? Wise up losers, you're not just making us look bad - you ARE BAD!
> 
> From Interfire.org
> 41,200 home structure fires per year are attributed to ‘electrical distribution.’ These electrical distribution fires account for 336 civilian deaths, 1446 civilian injuries, and $643.9 million in direct property damage per year.


Someone piss in your Cheerios this morning?

Nothing like digging up a zombie thread with an into like that!


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## backstay

juan0069 said:


> I just LOVE how many posts there are here with tips on how to avoid doing a job correctly and still get it to pass inspection... WOW! I hope you aren't charging full price for your cut rate work! And don't EVEN start to snivel about all the unlicensed people out there cutting corners.
> 
> I REALLY hope you ****s are an anomoly. I would really HATE to think that when I tell my customers that having my license means something and having their job done correctly is well worth the money in the long run, that somehow it may apply to jerk-offs like you as well. And I am REALLY sick of jerk-offs waving their license around like they know what they are doing, charging the high price, and just slapping some grease on there to fool the inspector
> 
> I wonder how many of these you guys caused... so far...? Wise up losers, you're not just making us look bad - you ARE BAD!
> 
> From Interfire.org
> 41,200 home structure fires per year are attributed to &#145;electrical distribution.&#146; These electrical distribution fires account for 336 civilian deaths, 1446 civilian injuries, and $643.9 million in direct property damage per year.


Enhance your calm Juan 69.


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## gnuuser

i always apply it as i was instructed when i was an apprentice
(wire brushed into the conductors and coated terminals)

our head electrician was good at kicking @$$ if you didnt do it correctly:laughing:


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## Fibes

480sparky said:


> Someone piss in your Cheerios this morning?


Either that or he has stock in Noalox. 

Now, I will never use an antioxidizing agent again just because of his attitude. :thumbsup:

Uhhh, I hope that's what has his panties all wadded up and he's not moaning about something else


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## Jlarson

Jlarson said:


> I've done the same as 220 if I'm dealing with an inspector I know will bitch and I just want the job passed and don't feel like arguing.


I was in an angry mood the other day. No anti oxidant was applied, no amount of bitching was gonna make me do it either.


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## Going_Commando

I slap the stuff on cuz that's what I was told to do. I also put it on the lugs of terminals because it makes a good anti-seize lubricant. Plus, I just love smearing that stuff all over my brand new clothes. Gives them the "worn in" look that people are paying $200 for!


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## macmikeman

It's time for your mactip of the day!


Tired of getting no-alox goop all over your hands when you apply it? Try this, turn the bottle upside down and let gravity send it into the closed cap. (dont cut a hole in the top of the cap when you buy it). next unscrew the cap, and just dip the skinned wire into the cap to get the goop on it all the way around, without you having to use your finger to spread it to the other side like you do when you apply it thru the hole you foolishly cut int the top of the cap..........


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## BBQ

juan0069 said:


> I REALLY hope you ****s are an anomoly. .........
> 
> it may apply to jerk-offs like you as well .........
> 
> Wise up losers, you're not just making us look bad - you ARE BAD! ........



:lol:


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## brian john

sparky970 said:


> We used Penetrox on high current DC buss (100KA), r*ecommended *because it has tiny metal filings emulsified in it.


By who? An engineer that does not know his butt from a hole in the ground.


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## brian john

OLDM POST and I added my personal bit*h so I deleted it


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## Southeast Power

juan0069 said:


> From Interfire.org
> 41,200 home structure fires per year are attributed to ‘electrical distribution.’ These electrical distribution fires account for 336 civilian deaths, 1446 civilian injuries, and $643.9 million in direct property damage per year.


"Distribution", what does this have to do with inside wiring?

Most house fires are not caused by what's in the walls but what people plug into receptacles.


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## East Coast Paul

it seems to be required by code in Canada.

12-118 Termination and splicing of aluminum conductors
(1)
Adequate precaution shall be given to the termination and splicing of aluminum conductors, including the 
removal of insulation and separators, the cleaning (wire brushing) of stranded conductors, and the 
compatibility and installation of fittings.
(2)
A joint compound, capable of penetrating the oxide film and preventing its reforming, shall be used for 
terminating or splicing all sizes of stranded aluminum conductors, unless the termination or splice is 
approved for use without compound and is so marked.


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## BBQ

East Coast Paul said:


> it seems to be required by code in Canada.


This ain't Canada. :jester:


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## erics37

I don't use NoAlox - I use Ilsco DeOx.

I don't always use it on the conductor itself (usually though) but I do always dab some on the threads of the lug as I spin it in because otherwise it will inevitably corrode up in our salt air and be impossible to loosen later.


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## backstay

We use beaver fat up here. Unless we can get bear fat!


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## Going_Commando

backstay said:


> We use beaver fat up here. Unless we can get bear fat!


I hear ya'll up there also use that stuff as sun screen, pulling lube (both kinds :laughing, and cooking oil too!


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## Going_Commando

macmikeman said:


> It's time for your mactip of the day!
> 
> 
> Tired of getting no-alox goop all over your hands when you apply it? Try this, turn the bottle upside down and let gravity send it into the closed cap. (dont cut a hole in the top of the cap when you buy it). next unscrew the cap, and just dip the skinned wire into the cap to get the goop on it all the way around, without you having to use your finger to spread it to the other side like you do when you apply it thru the hole you foolishly cut int the top of the cap..........


You mean I'm not supposed to be using it as hand lotion too? I figured since I some how always get covered in the stuff that it was meant to be rubbed in to skin too. Anyone have the MSDS on that stuff? :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey

I hate it when some clown digs up an ancient thread just to make some stupid comment and stir up trouble.


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## Speedy Petey

juan0069 said:


> *I just LOVE how many posts there are here with tips on how to avoid doing a job correctly and still get it to pass inspection... WOW!* I hope you aren't charging full price for your cut rate work! And don't EVEN start to snivel about all the unlicensed people out there cutting corners.
> 
> I REALLY hope you ****s are an anomoly. I would really HATE to think that when I tell my customers that having my license means something and having their job done correctly is well worth the money in the long run, that somehow it may apply to jerk-offs like you as well. And I am REALLY sick of jerk-offs waving their license around like they know what they are doing, charging the high price, and just slapping some grease on there to fool the inspector
> 
> I wonder how many of these you guys caused... so far...? Wise up losers, you're not just making us look bad - you ARE BAD!
> 
> From Interfire.org
> 41,200 home structure fires per year are attributed to ‘electrical distribution.’ These electrical distribution fires account for 336 civilian deaths, 1446 civilian injuries, and $643.9 million in direct property damage per year.


I originally closed this thread, but I am re-opening it for this reason only.
Juan, you are making some VERY strong accusations here, and using some very insulting words. You are obviously king of all electricians, so please point out all these threads and posts where folks are telling "how to avoid doing a job correctly and still get it to pass inspection". 
Links would be great. 



I'll wait. :whistling2:


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