# Lamp receptacles and AFCI breakers



## mlzmaz (Aug 30, 2011)

When installing lamp receptacles, with the receptacle split, one side to a switch one side always on, how do you address afci breakers? Both sides on different breakers, say a lighting circuit and a receptacle circuit, with seperate pieces of romex, 4 conductor cable, maybe isolated ground outlets? Or one breaker with 3 conductor cable?

Does anyone still install lamp receptacles?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mlzmaz said:


> When installing lamp receptacles, with the receptacle split, one side to a switch one side always on, how do you address afci breakers? Both sides on different breakers, say a lighting circuit and a receptacle circuit, with seperate pieces of romex, 4 conductor cable, maybe isolated ground outlets? Or one breaker with 3 conductor cable?
> 
> Does anyone still install lamp receptacles?


I have not installed an arc fault circuit in a residential setting. Don't they make a double pole one to satisfy that problem?


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## BigJohn20 (Mar 23, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I have not installed an arc fault circuit in a residential setting. Don't they make a double pole one to satisfy that problem?


They sure do. 2-pole 15A and 20A AFCI breakers can be had quite easily.


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## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

Lamp receptacles are only one circuit why would you need a 2 pole breaker?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

mlzmaz said:


> Both sides on different breakers, say a lighting circuit and a receptacle circuit, with seperate pieces of romex, 4 conductor cable, maybe isolated ground outlets?


WHY in the world would you want to do this??? :001_huh:

Just use one circuit and split wire the recept's with 3-wire.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

crosport said:


> Lamp receptacles are only one circuit why would you need a 2 pole breaker?


Maybe a difference in terminology is going on here. What I call an outlet, maybe you are calling a receptacle. In any case, if the portion of the outlet that is supplying power to the light... ALL... of the time is on the same circuit as the portion that is "switched", the AFCI S/P should do the trick. In any case, the breaker would only respond to an UN-characteristic waveform.

I have to say that I don't like the way I spelled "Characteristic", but I can't figure a way out of it.


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## supercrew37365 (Mar 12, 2010)

I would use the same circuit to power the receptacle and the switched receptacle.Just did a whole house with all rooms with top switched receptacle and bottom power.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If you have two circuits then split the neutral and hot but if this is a mwbc then it is not a good idea. There are some manufacturers who make a dp afci and GE uses 2 - sp afci breakers.


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## mlzmaz (Aug 30, 2011)

I was thinking about splitting the circuits because I already have a 20 amp receptacle circuit planned out with 12 gauge wire and a 15 amp lighting circuit planned out with 14 gauge wire. I don't really want to put the unswitched half of the receptacles on my lighting circuit, and I don't really want to run 12-3 for all of the receptacles and my 3 way switch on the other side of the room. From what I pay for wire, 12-2 + 14-2 is about equal $ to 12-3, so I'm not saving anything by running 12-3, in fact it costs a lot more because of the 3 way switch run.

If I were to run two different pieces of NM to each outlet, should I tie the EGC in each box to the common ground on the outlet, or should I use one or the other, or would I have to use isolated ground receptacles?

I've also been considering adding a second 15 amp lighting circuit with a $35 AFCI breaker so I can put these receptacles on it and use 14-3.


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## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

Why make something so simple so complicated?


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

mlzmaz said:


> I was thinking about splitting the circuits because I already have a 20 amp receptacle circuit planned out with 12 gauge wire and a 15 amp lighting circuit planned out with 14 gauge wire. I don't really want to put the unswitched half of the receptacles on my lighting circuit, and I don't really want to run 12-3 for all of the receptacles and my 3 way switch on the other side of the room. From what I pay for wire, 12-2 + 14-2 is about equal $ to 12-3, so I'm not saving anything by running 12-3, in fact it costs a lot more because of the 3 way switch run.
> 
> If I were to run two different pieces of NM to each outlet, should I tie the EGC in each box to the common ground on the outlet, or should I use one or the other, or would I have to use isolated ground receptacles?
> 
> I've also been considering adding a second 15 amp lighting circuit with a $35 AFCI breaker so I can put these receptacles on it and use 14-3.


Are you an electrician?


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## AnthonyClifton (Sep 14, 2011)

Guys, I think this explains something, fro the OP's profile: *Electrical Distribution/Control, Marine . *Looks like he doesn't do residential.

Op, please disregard my previous post.


Put the room on a 20 amp circuit. Purchase 12-2 and 12-3. Don't be a tightwad.


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## mlzmaz (Aug 30, 2011)

AnthonyClifton said:


> Guys, I think this explains something, fro the OP's profile: *Electrical Distribution/Control, Marine . *Looks like he doesn't do residential.
> 
> Op, please disregard my previous post.
> 
> ...


You figured me out 100%. My roll of 12-3 is almost gone and I don't want to purchase another. This is the last room of my house to be rewired so I'd never use more than 50 feet of it, and buying it by the foot or a smaller roll is painfully uneconomical (worse than another AFCI breaker). I'm already going to have half rolls of 12-2 and 14-2 & 3 left, so I don't think I want to do this, even though I would agree it's a tightwad move.

I think I'm set on using 14-3 and a 15 amp circuit, and I've cut it down to only three receptacles where the lamps will obviously go.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Is this your house or a customers? Run your HR to a switch box, then from the switch, run your 12/3 to the outlet you want to switch and tie in the rest with 12-2.

Disregard this if that was plan already, but I'm under the impression that your running 12/3 to all the plugs in the room.

If you want a lighting circuit why don't you just put light boxes ceiling of all the rooms?


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## gismo (Oct 16, 2011)

FWIW, I think the code requires that all hots to a duplex recept be on the same (1 or 2 pole) breaker. Don't see how you can do that when one is 15A and the other is 20A.


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## mlzmaz (Aug 30, 2011)

gismo said:


> FWIW, I think the code requires that all hots to a duplex recept be on the same (1 or 2 pole) breaker. Don't see how you can do that when one is 15A and the other is 20A.


That's precisely the kind of info I was looking for, even though it's a little late. Thank you, glad I didn't do it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Do yourself a favor, use 14 wire. there is no way you will exceed the amperage limits of a 15 amp circuit for lighting and general power. If you need dedicated power for AC or Blow dryer then just run one dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuit.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

gismo said:


> FWIW, I think the code requires that all hots to a duplex recept be on the same (1 or 2 pole) breaker. Don't see how you can do that when one is 15A and the other is 20A.


You can legally put a 15a circuit on half of a duplex, and a 20a circuit on the other half.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Maybe a difference in terminology is going on here. What I call an outlet, maybe you are calling a receptacle.


A receptacle is an outlet, but an outlet is not necessarily a receptacle.:thumbsup::whistling2:


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

480sparky said:


> You can legally put a 15a circuit on half of a duplex, and a 20a circuit on the other half.


That is absolutely correct, you just have to make sure that the handles are tied in order to kill both hots at the same time as with any other MWBC... (210.4B). These two cables also have to be identified somehow as going to the same destination (210.4D).


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