# Aluminum wiring



## MrsElectric (Aug 12, 2011)

Do you recommend replacing aluminum circuit wiring?

Just checked out a house built in the 80's
Has (2) 120V circuits
Also range, dyer, HWH, AC, condenser all in aluminum

We submitted a bid to replace it all with copper, they want to do just the (2) 120Vs?

Don't really want to do that.

What do you all do?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Just replace the two 120v circuits....

Thats all that want to pay for, then thats all they get. All those 240v circuits are fine in AL, if I were to replace them, I would just repull aluminum anyways.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

If it was really installed in the 80's there should be no real issues, however, I don't think there was any 15 and 20 amp aluminum conductors on the market in the 80's. 

The new alloy #12 and 10 aluminum was brought out in late 1973 or early 1974 and was only on the market for a couple of years. There were no issues with this product when it was used with the CO/ALR devices, but even though the new product did not have issues, it could not overcome the poor reputation of the older aluminum conductors and it was not selling well enough for the manufactures to continue producing it.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

MrsElectric said:


> Do you recommend replacing aluminum circuit wiring?
> 
> Just checked out a house built in the 80's
> Has (2) 120V circuits
> ...


It's trash. Re wire the house.


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## MrsElectric (Aug 12, 2011)

My mistake- the two 120V were being used as 240V on 2 single pole breakers, nobody bothered to tie them together.

Seller of the home paid for "immediate issues" noted in the inspection report.

We will recommend to the buyer to replace the remainder of Aluminum.


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## magneticpersona (Apr 28, 2012)

there is absolutely nothing wrong with aluminum wiring, its safe if installed properly. Aluminum does require some maintenance. I usually tell my customers that every 5 years they should have their switch, plugs and breakers checked and re-tightened since aluminum can get a little loose with time


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

Changing anything that goes to a device (switch, receptacle, light) would be a huge step in the right direction.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I have aluminum wiring in my house (built 1974) and I checked every single switch and outlet (slowly) since buying the house and it's all fine. Upgrades were permitted and proper copper->aluminum pigtails completed. I'm comfortable with the current state of the install, but as I reno rooms I'll pull new HR's and branches in copper.

Just saying.. it's not necessarily a hazard, even though there have been known issues.

Could tell these customers to call you immediately if they ever feel a switch or plug plate warm to the touch or see or smell anything funny. That advice alone could be a good enough seed for them to do a rewire with you when they actually have the money. Who has money after buying a home!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

magneticpersona said:


> there is absolutely nothing wrong with aluminum wiring, its safe if installed properly....


 I agree 100%, with modern aluminum wiring. 

Admittedly, I don't deal with the suspect wiring from the 70's, but from what I've read it does have demonstrable problems, and I would not be comfortable certifying any of it as reliable.

-John


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

Part of the problem is that very few of these installations are original anymore. Devices have been changed over the years and wiring has been hacked into and added to.
I wouldn't have small gauge aluminum in my own home.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

magneticpersona said:


> there is absolutely nothing wrong with aluminum wiring, its safe if installed properly. Aluminum does require some maintenance. I usually tell my customers that every 5 years they should have their switch, plugs and breakers checked and re-tightened since aluminum can get a little loose with time


Your kidding, right? Who in the he** want's to worry about tightening screws? Use copper. It's just not that much more $$.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

do what they want..and hope they keep calling you back for more...:thumbsup:


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

magneticpersona said:


> there is absolutely nothing wrong with aluminum wiring, its safe if installed properly. Aluminum does require some maintenance. I usually tell my customers that every 5 years they should have their switch, plugs and breakers checked and re-tightened since aluminum can get a little loose with time


Ah yes, that sounds PERFECTLY safe :laughing: .


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*..*

:no::no:


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

First thing. even the old non alloyed aluminum wire was never a problem if it was installed correctly and only aluminum approved devices are installed. Almost all the wore problems we had were related to devices made for copper only being installed on aluminum wires. The other trouble with the devices is there was never a good aluminum device made until the problem with the connections was discovered.
Since those heady days no one makes wire in #10 and smaller and these days all aluminum wire is alloyed as well so it is by far more immune to knick in the wire failures.
I would not rewire a house solely for dealing with installed aluminum wire especially if I could not find any heat damage in the splices or at the devices. Pig tail with copper and with an approved aluminum and copper approved wire nut. I would also use an antioxidant compound too. The copper tails allow the devices to be changed out in the future with ordinary copper devices.
To my knowledge we did not get aluminum wire failures between boxes except for mechanical damage to the wire. So if both ends of the cable are in good shape then the wire between the boxes is too.
Someday I think we may see aluminum wire in #12 and 10 again.
I would hazard a guess that aluminum carries more electrons than all the copper by more than 1 to 1. Almost all transmission is done over aluminum and very few outdoor wires are copper. Many transformers have aluminum windings. Many panel boards and other distribution equipment has aluminum buss work. Most of the cable feeders here are aluminum(ACWU) NMD is available in aluminum over size #8 for ranges and sub panels. Sub feeders in raceways are aluminum. service conductors everywhere are aluminum.
Put it in the wall of a house and everyone says rewire with copper? Sorry I think this is what people who don't understand why we had a problem with building wires says. Electricians should know better.
That is not to say up selling the copper is a bad business ploy but there is no technical justification to rewire for this reason alone. I'll say it again if the wire is good at both ends then use it. If it has been damaged by overheating because of the issues then replace the segment. If you find that a lot of the wiring has been damaged then rewire entirely.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

That pretty much concludes the debate. lol

It's nice having an Electrical Inspector on here with good information.


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## woostaguy (Nov 19, 2012)

first determine if the devices are even rated for aluminum chances are they have been changed or messed with over the years. aluminum wiring in the walls is fine its the point of termination that causes arcing and fires. I suggest quoting al/cu devices and aluminum rated wirenuts on all fixtures.pigtail the gfi's with rated wirenuts since its hard to find a al/cu gfi and leave the 2 poles alone aluminum under a lug is fine ( such as a dryer or range plug ) I have done many houses under this formula and this will satisfy any home inspector and the nec.


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