# 208 vs 480 safety



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I treat them the exact same.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Check out the difference between level III & level IV meters. The other thing is levels of PPE in case of arc flash for 208 vs 480.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

It's between 480, and 4160 is where the difference is. I use gloves for the 4160. 34.5kv. I use the panel meter.


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## cwsims84 (Jan 21, 2012)

EJPHI said:


> For a long time, our products were designed to operate off of 208V. The engineers are all well trained in LOTO and safe practices for making live voltage measurements. We do not work live but need to make measurements of the voltage for testing purposes.
> 
> Now we are moving to 480V:vs_whistle: and I would like to ask what everyone does that is different for 480.
> We will need to make voltage checks on live circuits. Do we need different probes?
> ...


Just use a 40cal suit/gear either way... really, if it goes ****ty and you aren’t wearing the right gear, it suddenly isn’t your problem anymore..


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

You guys are helping me a lot.

Keep it coming. I am gonna point managers to this thread


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

480 is a touch voltage (wont jump) so you can treat it the same as 208. If you use 00 gloves like you are suppose to then its all good. (please don't claim that your guys always wear there gloves as we know better).

The biggest difference is you now have 277 trying to escape rather than 110. Where a wet 110v connection will hold a 277v connection will burn up. I prefer working 480 as ive never come across anything that isn't a wye at that voltage. 

Make sure all your meters are rated to 600v cat IV especially tracers. Also try to get a idiot meter like a fluke T5 and tell your guys to use that as the primary meter. The other meters should only be used once you have reached the limits of the T5. This will reduce most of the risk of accidentally leaving a meter set to ohms or touching the probe on a wiggy. 

Its a good thing that you are worried about the difference. That shows you still respect it. Once you get comfortable and loose respect is when it can all go horribly wrong.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Allow me to stick this thing in here , just to set the mood...........


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

Hey Mac, I always like seeing those videos but how many cycles was that flash? That is the worst case scenario and the best case would be that your fuse would open at a quarter cycle. Either way, PPE is required and good practice followed.


Tim.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

canbug said:


> Either way, PPE is required and good practice followed.
> 
> 
> Tim.


Something has to block the molten copper flying at you.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Just saying, but 277 will take out a bigger chunk of your favorite screwdriver than 120 will.
A B grounded 480 will do some real damage, I have several on R-mix plants and they are to be respected.


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

I checked with some of the guys today and we will have 480 delta feed in most instances. We also have some 208 corner grounded delta UPS that will have to play well with the 480. This should be fun.

Inside the equipment we use all black wire with L1, L2, L3 labels which may have to be rethought so we can easily know which wires have 480 on them.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

EJPHI said:


> I checked with some of the guys today and we will have 480 delta feed in most instances. We also have some 208 corner grounded delta UPS that will have to play well with the 480. This should be fun.
> 
> Inside the equipment we use all black wire with L1, L2, L3 labels which may have to be rethought so we can easily know which wires have 480 on them.


Always check with a meter. Doesn't all of your equipment have nameplates with voltage etc?


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Bird dog said:


> Always check with a meter. Doesn't all of your equipment have nameplates with voltage etc?


Nope, but may need to do that.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

With all the new electrical safety requirements, your location might have to do an arc flash study. This is expensive and many places skip it when they get the estimate. It is based on NEC 70 E. For most places a Level 2 ( 12 cal.. ) PPE is fine unless you have large distribution panels or feeders. We had 800 amp, 480/277 volt panels that were a Level 1 PPE and 200 amp, 208/120 volt panel that were a Level 2 & 3. It depends more on the available fault current and the OCPD rather than the voltage. By today's standards, you always must wear your PPE and follow the rules of 70E. That means either sit in your office and ignore the voltage readings or be prepared to spend a lot more time with PPE, prep and filling out energized work permits. A Level 4 PPE is expensive and very difficult to work in unless the place is air conditioned down to 60 degrees.


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

We have very high energy close to where our equipment will be deployed. So yeah there is major concern about this step up in voltage.

Does anyone know of a very reliable indicator that we can connect line to line?

We can do something simple with some resistors and LEDs, but the indicator must always be correct. We can't accept a design where a false reading due to a failed component would indicate no voltage when in fact voltage is present.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

EJPHI said:


> We have very high energy close to where our equipment will be deployed. So yeah there is major concern about this step up in voltage.
> 
> Does anyone know of a very reliable indicator that we can connect line to line?
> 
> We can do something simple with some resistors and LEDs, but the indicator must always be correct. We can't accept a design where a false reading due to a failed component would indicate no voltage when in fact voltage is present.


A properly trained electrician with a meter. :vs_mad:


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Bird dog said:


> A properly trained electrician with a meter. :vs_mad:


Bull****:glasses:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Buy fluke meters with fluke connect so you can rig up your voltage testing and whatnot when its locked out, then close everything up, unlock, energize, and view your readings on your tablet while sitting comfortably on a 5 gallon pail out of the way.

I fricken love fluke connect.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Do you mean something that you permanently install on the equipment to indicate that live voltage is present?


Grace Voltage Vision


Panduit Verisafe


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

EJPHI said:


> I checked with some of the guys today and we will have 480 delta feed in most instances. We also have some 208 corner grounded delta UPS that will have to play well with the 480. This should be fun.
> 
> Inside the equipment we use all black wire with L1, L2, L3 labels which may have to be rethought so we can easily know which wires have 480 on them.


What is this equipment? 480V delta is fairly rare any more. Just because it is only fed with 3 wires from a switchboard or panelboard, doesn't mean it is a delta source. the ONLY criteria is at the service transformer secondary. Most utilities will no longer give you a delta secondary unless you can prove that you need it for some reason. They are going to give you a 480Y277 secondary. Whether you use the Neutral or not is your own business, but it's still Wye.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I was trying to remember the Panduit one, they had it on display at the supply house. Not expensive, it would pay for itself in no time. 



JRaef said:


> Do you mean something that you permanently install on the equipment to indicate that live voltage is present?
> 
> 
> Grace Voltage Vision
> ...


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

splatz said:


> I was trying to remember the Panduit one, they had it on display at the supply house. Not expensive, it would pay for itself in no time.


The Grace version was first, but I liked the Panduit one better when I saw it because it was optically isolated, meaning no 480V brought to the front door of the enclosure. I see now though that Grace has done that too. The power of competition...


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

JRaef said:


> Do you mean something that you permanently install on the equipment to indicate that live voltage is present?
> 
> 
> Grace Voltage Vision
> ...


Yes, otherwise we have a LOTO safety concern about even seeing if the 480 is present or not.


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