# Control Work is Vast



## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

Conveyor belts. Robroy. Rigid pipe. Relay circuits. Transformers.

It has been a really fun several months learning this stuff. I didn't even know what Robroy was until I did industrial. I know have a better understanding that the word "controls" depends on the context. However, I think I'm more interested in doing building automation and temperature controls and I wanted to know is there just as much of a market doing that as there is in industrial controls? Also, would it be helpful for me to also learn fire alarm as well? And does anyone here do that type of control work full time? Nothing against industrial controls but I think the building automation fascinates me more and I want to do my research on the industry before I full on pursue it after my apprenticeship. Thanks!


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

The controls industry is unlimited. Everybody needs controls and they are always changing.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

If you like traveling to different job sites with in a area then alarms and automation may be worth pursuing.
I hate the thought of turning up to work then driving half of the day but thats just me. Also doing pm on fire alarms systems is kinda boring.

Most of us drifted around in controls until we found our niche in the market. Hopefully you will find some thing that you find interesting. 
The first thing you mentioned was robroy and ridgid so it seems your not interested in the construction side. Maybe plc's and instrumentation would be more your calling.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Fire alarms might be low voltage, but they are not controls.

So you're talking two different markets.

Pure control work usually means Industrial, which means that you want to be in the IBEW.

After you've established yourself as a total whiz you could even set up your own shop.

The dominant fire alarm firms out my way are non-union. They pay very well, they're just non-union.

Fire alarm work can drive you batty. They are very fussy and becoming ever more so. Such systems are usually installed under insane time pressure. I could tell you tales.

If you can handle that kind of pressure, then fire alarms are Big.

But I rather suspect that you're well advised to become an IBEW apprentice. The IBEW has training that can't be beat. Automation of America's future factories figures to be astounding. Mr. Industrial is going to go with NECA//IBEW contractors every time.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The big building controls companies are absolutely booming here right now and this area is NOT a hotspot. 

The last ten years or so the only businesses that were really booming were health care and colleges. Health care uses a ridiculous amount of building controls. Colleges like the best of everything and can afford it, and will eagerly spend $1,000,000.00 to save $100 in energy costs, so they have pretty advanced systems too. 

The big companies are starving for decent people, organizing you into the union, and paying WAY over scale if you're not a complete turd, with all the overtime you want - in fact you'll probably HAVE to take a fair amount. These guys are making real money. 

If this opportunity had been around when I was in my 20's, I'd be a short timer right now! 

I think the big building controls, fire alarm, and security / access controls / surveillance companies are going to consolidate and be divisions under single large company, but they'll remain separate systems for the foreseeable future. 

If the unions are worth a **** they better be working very, very hard to make sure they keep their contracts with these companies because believe me there are going to be bean counters doing everything they can to make sure they don't.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

In my experience the LV controls market (building automation and alarm systems) are considered a “lesser” trade since the qualifications for entry and certification are generally lower. So unless you work in a union shop, the wages are lower as well. That’s because it’s too easy for companies to replace you with some 19yo kid right out of Wyotech HVAC school where he spent 6 months learning that trade. 

Industrial controls work is exactly the opposite. If you have any aptitude for it and are already a licensed electrician, you are in a great position to make a career of it and pull down a decent living. But will you have to install Robroy and transformers too? You betcha. It builds character...


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## geoffpowell (Mar 12, 2017)

I’m an industrial controls guy, but when I was running my own business and since I’ve dealt with a number of building automation systems. I agree with some of the comments in that the building automation seems to be a lesser trade. I recall one argument with a guy from the manufacturer (could be wrong, Honeywell I think) that was blaming the system setup and I knew it was an actuator feedback issue. I was right, but I guess it could be troubleshooting ability too. Bottom line is, there’s more and more automation in buildings as well as industrial, if you want to protect yourself for job security in the long run work in an area where fly-by-nighters are less likely to undercut you. Residential and commercial building customers tend to be short sighted and CHEAP. Industrial has OSHA and other liabilities to keep in mind and therefore tend to want things done and fixed right. Either way good luck in your decision.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Siemens, Honeywell, ABS, Johnson Controls, etc. They would all welcome you.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LARMGUY said:


> Siemens, Honeywell, ABS, Johnson Controls, etc. They would all welcome you.


+1 for all the above, just apply to Johnson first.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I think controls or industrial is in my future for the "back 40" of my career. I am fine with never setting foot in another new house wire or hot attic ever again.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Hey joecool, Your inbox is full I can't reply.


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## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

LARMGUY said:


> Hey joecool, Your inbox is full I can't reply.


Sorry. I deleted some messages now.


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## geoffpowell (Mar 12, 2017)

Here is an article that might be interesting? 

www.howtogeek.com/359365/3-things-holding-back-the-smarthome-industry/


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## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

geoffpowell said:


> Here is an article that might be interesting?
> 
> www.howtogeek.com/359365/3-things-holding-back-the-smarthome-industry/


 I clicked the link and it’s not working


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Just go to www.howtogeek.com and click on the story.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

JoeCool612 said:


> Sorry. I deleted some messages now.


Same thing

I can reply on public messaging maybe? You can delete it later.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Didjagetit?


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## geoffpowell (Mar 12, 2017)

@JoeCool612 I clicked on it in the thread and it worked. 

https://www.howtogeek.com/359365/3-things-holding-back-the-smarthome-industry/


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

What about HVAC? That's the bread and butter of building automation and doesn't suffer nearly as much from low entry requirements like installing generic LV or proprietary automation systems. It has a more expanded skillset that could easily be adapted into lesser applications, interfaces with industrial electrical and instrumentation.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Rora said:


> What about HVAC? That's the bread and butter of building automation and doesn't suffer nearly as much from low entry requirements like installing generic LV or proprietary automation systems. It has a more expanded skillset that could easily be adapted into lesser applications, interfaces with industrial electrical and instrumentation.


The bummer about HVAC automation work is that so much of it is proprietary and doesn't always translate well into typical industrial automation. Industrial automation is so beautifully generic that it doesn't matter what the industry, product, or process is... the controls and instruments and the methodologies to wire, communicate, and calibrate make them familiar to a skilled industrial controls guy- even if he's never set foot in the facility before.


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

MDShunk said:


> Industrial automation is so beautifully generic that it doesn't matter what the industry, product, or process is... the controls and instruments and the methodologies to wire, communicate, and calibrate make them familiar to a skilled industrial controls guy- even if he's never set foot in the facility before.


Ah, I knew HVAC had some proprietary aspects but I didn't know it was that bad, that is a shame I guess.

What you said is like music to the ears, though, I wish more people could understand this. You're probably the first person I've seen to verbalize what it's like gaining expertise in I&C, that is, I may not be familiar with any given system, but I'm entirely confident that I could walk into a facility and deal with with just about any scope because they all use the same principals of operation. I plan to keep it that way by expanding into high-voltage, robotics, and other areas that aren't typically covered in the conventional I&C knowledge-base.

The counterpoint to this is ease of entry, but as others have pointed out that can be a double-edged sword. I spent a lot of time and resources to develop a universal skill set and would recommend the same approach to anyone. It's pretty satisfying to approach entirely unfamiliar systems and still produce effective results. With that said, if someone already knows exactly what scope they want to work in, there's not much harm in specializing. There is just less flexibility in the future if you change your mind... and to be frank, I think it would kind of suck not having a complete idea of what's going on.

MDShunk, you always have such fascinating insight and after what you said I just have to wonder what your background is?

JoeCool, if you're not entirely decided on what you want to do, have you considered instrumentation and controls? Basically you approach the challenge of automation from the top-down and learn it all. Gives you a ton of options and flexibility, however it does take a fair bit of dedication vs. specializing in one area.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Rora said:


> MDShunk, you always have such fascinating insight and after what you said I just have to wonder what your background is?


Years and years of fearlessly sticking my nose into things I have little knowledge or understanding of until I figure it out. lain:


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

MDShunk said:


> Years and years of fearlessly sticking my nose into things I have little knowledge or understanding of until I figure it out. lain:


Very cool, there's no other approach in my book. Curiosity may have killed the cat, but my meter is CAT IV.

...and with that terrible pun, I'm going to bed. Best of luck JoeCool!


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

MDShunk said:


> The bummer about HVAC automation work is that so much of it is proprietary and doesn't always translate well into typical industrial automation. Industrial automation is so beautifully generic that it doesn't matter what the industry, product, or process is... the controls and instruments and the methodologies to wire, communicate, and calibrate make them familiar to a skilled industrial controls guy- even if he's never set foot in the facility before.


I would go a step farther and say that it is so generic that you can walk up to nearly any machine/system and troubleshoot it. I spent two days with the techs last week, and I'm by no means an expert, but I'm comfortable with fire alarm systems. Actually going to troubleshoot a 37-unit apartment complex's new fire alarm system today and get it ready for occupancy. I've used the same tools/systems/techniques to troubleshoot heavy machinery, automotive, really, I feel comfortable troubleshooting nearly anything.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

specializing in one field can be a dangerous option for a young electrician just starting out because the field is so broad. that the market for a specialty can drop out rapidly, especially inclement to changing technology!
take the advice of a lot of us seasoned vets and study everything you can so you have something to rely on.
being a specialist does command good wages but technology changes could easily wipe out a market for a specified skill set.


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## wilburwm (Jul 31, 2018)

Where I am, in NJ outside of Philly, controls electricians are high in demand.


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## JoeCool612 (May 22, 2016)

wilburwm said:


> Where I am, in NJ outside of Philly, controls electricians are high in demand.


 Do you mean building automation and temp controls?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

JoeCool612 said:


> Do you mean building automation and temp controls?


See, that's the thing. "Controls electrician" means different things to different people. A certain amount of guys automatically think building automation and temperature control. A certain other amount think sensors, VFD's, PLC's, and instrumentation. I guess they're both controls electricians in the sense that auto mechanics and diesel truck mechanics are both mechanics, but they tend to stick to their niche.


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