# Wagos causing arcfault/gfi breakers to trip



## dham206 (Mar 6, 2016)

I've been posting on this forum about problems that I've been having with a large house that was recently trimmed out. Arc fault breakers would trip under NO load. I would not detect faults between hot/neutral hot/ground and neutral/ground. The breakers are type CH. Wago's (push in wire nuts) were used to make up outlets switches ect. Has anyone experienced arc fault and/or Gfi breakers tripping with wago's or push in style wire nuts? I am concerned that its a possibility. Recessed cans come with wago's on them already and I've always used them never having a problem with tripping.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Never and I have used thousands.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Are they Wago's or those crappy Ideal lookalike's? I swear the Ideal's are like a size 8 foot in a size 12 shoe. And that is when you follow the wire chart on the bottle they come in.


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## dmxtothemax (Jun 15, 2010)

Any wire join be it waggo, wire nut or what ever ?
Has the capacity to trip out a AFCI if it is not used correctly or is faulty.
So just because they have never played up before doesn't mean 
they they cannot play up now !

Divide and conquer,
You will find it

QUOTE - [ When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains must be the truth? ].


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

dham206 said:


> I've been posting on this forum about problems that I've been having with a large house that was recently trimmed out. Arc fault breakers would trip under NO load.* I would not detect faults between hot/neutral hot/ground and neutral/ground*. The breakers are type CH. Wago's (push in wire nuts) were used to make up outlets switches ect. Has anyone experienced arc fault and/or Gfi breakers tripping with wago's or push in style wire nuts? I am concerned that its a possibility. Recessed cans come with wago's on them already and I've always used them never having a problem with tripping.


Time to break out the Megger -- before chasing down unique and improbable fault modes.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Sounds like the problem is with the Wagoer, not the Wagos themselves. 

Tell us how far the circuits run from the panel to the supposed offending terminations. Im seeing the term "big house" and that term to me is worrisome.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Afci's _won't_ sense a series connection making / breaking

And if you _do_ meg, disconnect the afci's from it

It'll _fry _their little warped _nema_ brains....

:vs_cool:
~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

If its a plug on neutral style panel, try some pigtail style breakers on the ones tripping.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Check your boxes for neutrals from two circuits tied together.


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## dham206 (Mar 6, 2016)

jw0445 said:


> Check your boxes for neutrals from two circuits tied together.


I'm confident I do not have have multiple neutrals tied together. Reason being is caused I will have dedicated circuits just for the washer and that circuit trips too. There isn't even a splice on that circuits and just the one outlet for the washer that's not even used right now.


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## dham206 (Mar 6, 2016)

nrp3 said:


> If its a plug on neutral style panel, try some pigtail style breakers on the ones tripping.


The breakers are the pig tail style


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## dham206 (Mar 6, 2016)

Southeast Power said:


> Sounds like the problem is with the Wagoer, not the Wagos themselves.
> 
> Tell us how far the circuits run from the panel to the supposed offending terminations. Im seeing the term "big house" and that term to me is worrisome.



Circuits are not ran far from the panel at all. If it weren't for the sub panels it would be quite far. For some circuits the homeruns are maybe 30 feet. The residence is 5000 sq ft. I tend not to put more than 10 outlets on a 15 amp circuit.


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## dham206 (Mar 6, 2016)

telsa said:


> Time to break out the Megger -- before chasing down unique and improbable fault modes.


Yes I'm getting close to have to meggering circuits. I have been talking with the cutler hammer residential rep and he wants me to check the error codes on the arc fault/gfi breakers. I did not know that these particular CH breakers give error codes. Other breakers do not have that ability. There is a flashing LED light that indicates errors. For example if it flashes 3 times it means there is a specific error and would look it up on a chart. I'm headed down there today to record any error codes. It is strange that these breakers would trip even when there's one dedicated outlet with no splices and home run less than 30 feet from panel. I cant imagine a issue with the wiring or methods. I'm hoping its faulty breakers but a megger will tell me for sure.


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## dham206 (Mar 6, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> Are they Wago's or those crappy Ideal lookalike's? I swear the Ideal's are like a size 8 foot in a size 12 shoe. And that is when you follow the wire chart on the bottle they come in.


They are the wago's. The orange 4 port ones


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Wago's are a lot like guns. They kill people.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

dham206 said:


> Yes I'm getting close to have to meggering circuits. I have been talking with the cutler hammer residential rep and he wants me to check the error codes on the arc fault/gfi breakers. I did not know that these particular CH breakers give error codes. Other breakers do not have that ability. There is a flashing LED light that indicates errors. For example if it flashes 3 times it means there is a specific error and would look it up on a chart. I'm headed down there today to record any error codes. It is strange that these breakers would trip even when there's one dedicated outlet with no splices and home run less than 30 feet from panel. I cant imagine a issue with the wiring or methods. I'm hoping its faulty breakers but a megger will tell me for sure.


If you wanna borrow my arc fault diagnostic kit you are welcome to it.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

telsa said:


> Time to break out the Megger -- before chasing down unique and improbable fault modes.


Sounds like a defective device.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> Afci's _won't_ sense a series connection making / breaking
> 
> And if you _do_ meg, disconnect the afci's from it
> 
> ...


You do know they are combination type now. As they have been for 5 years. Are you even an electrician?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> You do know they are combination type now. As they have been for 5 years. Are you even an electrician?


If you can show me just HOW a series trip can occur, I'll buy you a beer:biggrin:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I better not see anyone say anything negative about Wago Lever Nuts :vs_mad:


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Only 4 more months of winter !! :vs_rocking_banana:
I guess that all depends on where you live. It's only 10:30 am and 80 degree's outside.
(Aaaahhh, just baggin' on ya, bro.)


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

joebanana said:


> Only 4 more months of winter !! :vs_rocking_banana:
> I guess that all depends on where you live. It's only 10:30 am and 80 degree's outside.
> (Aaaahhh, just baggin' on ya, bro.)


80˚  ... too hot !! :biggrin:


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## mateo613 (Mar 28, 2014)

hate using wagos


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## mateo613 (Mar 28, 2014)

get some blue orange lock nuts and that"ll solve your issues


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

dham206 said:


> I'm confident I do not have have multiple neutrals tied together. Reason being is caused I will have dedicated circuits just for the washer and that circuit trips too. There isn't even a splice on that circuits and just the one outlet for the washer that's not even used right now.


I'd think drywallers, or a bad batch of breakers.

I'd pull one of the dedicated circuits receptacle out and see if it still pops. Then I'd remove the ground and see if it still pops, and try a know good breaker (I'd do the breaker first).
Apart from that, Meg the wiring.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

mateo613 said:


> get some blue orange lock nuts and that"ll solve your issues


Why would that fix it ?? :blink:


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

emtnut said:


> 80˚  ... too hot !! :biggrin:


Yeah, my A/C bill is off to an early start. :vs_whistle:


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## shocksystems (Apr 25, 2009)

If it is happening to multiple circuits I would suspect interference from a ham radio nearby or something similar


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

telsa said:


> Time to break out the Megger -- before chasing down unique and improbable fault modes.


We use this as well. *



*


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I better not see anyone say anything negative about Wago Lever Nuts :vs_mad:


My supplier's are very sketchy about this particular item. The only will leave me bags of them under the Kamehameha Statue down at the court house. And then they demand payment in lava. It's just too confusing.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> My supplier's are very sketchy about this particular item. The only will leave me bags of them under the Kamehameha Statue down at the court house. And then they demand payment in lava. It's just too confusing.


I still have that cup of lava you gave me years ago. If you need it back let me know.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I’m sorry, I didn’t hear what you guys said. I was too busy cutting 2 x 4 blocking straight and square.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The_Modifier said:


> We use this as well.


glorified toner......

~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> glorified toner......
> 
> ~CS~


Shhhhh, no one asked you.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

99cents said:


> Never and I have used thousands.


ditto


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

OP...before you pull any of your work apart look in all 
the maintenance rooms for any wireless products that 
any of the following other companies have provided and set up
after you were done with your finish....phone , network 
computers , audio etc

Especially products that plug into various receptacle outlets
throughout the home.

Un plug all that s**t and then see if you still have nuisance 
tripping. I am willing to bet it's a product by "others" installed
after you were done


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I've tried the Siemens thing once and didn't produce anything, then again replacing the dual function P&S receptacles with Leviton solved the problem. Like a lot of diagnostic stuff, it probably takes some practice/experience to be good with.


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## mikedl361 (Dec 24, 2016)

dham206 said:


> Yes I'm getting close to have to meggering circuits. I have been talking with the cutler hammer residential rep and he wants me to check the error codes on the arc fault/gfi breakers. I did not know that these particular CH breakers give error codes. Other breakers do not have that ability. There is a flashing LED light that indicates errors. For example if it flashes 3 times it means there is a specific error and would look it up on a chart. I'm headed down there today to record any error codes. It is strange that these breakers would trip even when there's one dedicated outlet with no splices and home run less than 30 feet from panel. I cant imagine a issue with the wiring or methods. I'm hoping its faulty breakers but a megger will tell me for sure.


 That's interesting to know and good you shared that info about the arc fault breaker having error codes. I never knew about that.


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## mikedl361 (Dec 24, 2016)

What if you were to remove your hot off the arc fault breaker and put another hot on there from a different circuit to see if it holds or trips. Basically to find out if its the breaker or wire.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> glorified toner......
> 
> ~CS~








@ the 12 second mark. "I hope he makes it- he's a pretty good rooster" :devil3:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

The_Modifier said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFiomlYSL8E&
> 
> 
> @ the 12 second mark. "I hope he makes it- he's a pretty good rooster" :devil3:


Now you done it...here comes the anti CS crowd


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

lighterup said:


> Now you done it...here comes the anti CS crowd


Who me?



Ask for a membership application. :vs_laugh:

JK Steve we love you. :vs_OMG:


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