# OSHA requirements for electrical work in an industrial setting



## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

While I realise that my injury was my fault for not wearing ppe I am still going to rake the saftey department over the coals. I cut my pinky knuckle open deep on a bus plug today while trying to get some fuse reducers to go in properly and got wrote up for not wearing gloves even though the gloves were causing the problem. I do realise that when I got hurt I could have had my gloves on but that is besides the point. The saftey guy is a **** that has no idea how work is done. This isn't my first run in with the dummy.

Anyways I was issued electrical gloves when I started with deere over a year and a half ago and have not gotten a new pair or a tested pair since. I have asked for new gloves on several occasions and asked for other needed arc flash PPE and have been ignored every time. I even gave all the part numbers of the PPE I wanted to my supervisor and still have nothing. Technically I don't even have the PPE or up to date PPE to do any electrical work other than a completely new install. Add to that they have only done the arc flash hazard analysis on the main switchgear and the information is no where available to the guys working on the stuff. We have also not had any arc flash saftey training.

I am not going to turn the company into Osha or anything like that but I want to know what is required before I go telling them what needs to be done for saftey.

I am working on finding info now but does anyone know some key Osha rules I need to take a look at and what their article numbers are?


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Jhellwig said:


> While I realise that my injury was my fault for not wearing ppe I am still going to rake the saftey department over the coals. I cut my pinky knuckle open deep on a bus plug today while trying to get some fuse reducers to go in properly and got wrote up for not wearing gloves even though the gloves were causing the problem. I do realise that when I got hurt I could have had my gloves on but that is besides the point. The saftey guy is a **** that has no idea how work is done. This isn't my first run in with the dummy.
> 
> Anyways I was issued electrical gloves when I started with deere over a year and a half ago and have not gotten a new pair or a tested pair since. I have asked for new gloves on several occasions and asked for other needed arc flash PPE and have been ignored every time. I even gave all the part numbers of the PPE I wanted to my supervisor and still have nothing. Technically I don't even have the PPE or up to date PPE to do any electrical work other than a completely new install. Add to that they have only done the arc flash hazard analysis on the main switchgear and the information is no where available to the guys working on the stuff. We have also not had any arc flash saftey training.
> 
> ...


Never blame yourself anytime because it will be used against you, the insurance company's will jack up the rates on you so you will not get a raise in pay because of the rise in insurance costs.:no:


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Black Dog said:


> Never blame yourself anytime because it will be used against you, the insurance company's will jack up the rates on you so you will not get a raise in pay because of the rise in insurance costs.:no:


It wouldn't of matered if I was wearing the dumb cut resistant gloves they have because it would have jabbed right through them but it still would have been my fault for not knowing the hazard and wearing chain mail gloves. All I needed was neosporin and a bandaid but we can't have that stuff in the first aid kits. Heaven forbid someone fix their own boo boo and move on. If I had known it was going to turn out like this I would have used electrical tape to keep a towel on it till I could get home.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

I hope you have all of this documented too


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Jhellwig said:


> While I realise that my injury was my fault for not wearing ppe I am still going to rake the saftey department over the coals. I cut my pinky knuckle open deep on a bus plug today while trying to get some fuse reducers to go in properly and got wrote up for not wearing gloves even though the gloves were causing the problem. I do realise that when I got hurt I could have had my gloves on but that is besides the point. The saftey guy is a **** that has no idea how work is done. This isn't my first run in with the dummy.
> 
> Anyways I was issued electrical gloves when I started with deere over a year and a half ago and have not gotten a new pair or a tested pair since. I have asked for new gloves on several occasions and asked for other needed arc flash PPE and have been ignored every time. I even gave all the part numbers of the PPE I wanted to my supervisor and still have nothing. Technically I don't even have the PPE or up to date PPE to do any electrical work other than a completely new install. Add to that they have only done the arc flash hazard analysis on the main switchgear and the information is no where available to the guys working on the stuff. We have also not had any arc flash saftey training.
> 
> ...


6 months later.....Man we are sorry but we just don't have enough work to keep you on anymore.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Go to the Osha website. You can download articles from the book. Your looking for 1926 version. I would strongly look at LOTO and arc flash safety. I would also get my hands on NFPA 70E. That's all the info you need.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

After buying _(because nobody else i worked for had one)_ a copy of 70E i realized few if any crews met even the basics of it, the local ibew poco crews being the only ones who make an effort......

After responding _(when i used to)_ to a string of work related fatalities, we saw how osha operated.....

I'm convinced the entire safety biz focuses blame on the worker ant, who is placed in a no win scenario

~CS~


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> 6 months later.....Man we are sorry but we just don't have enough work to keep you on anymore.


At my old company I would agree. Here though I have a lot of screwing up left before I get canned. If they want to lay me off the have to lay off 20 other guys first and kick our apprentice e back to his old job classification.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Jhellwig said:


> While I realise that my injury was my fault for not wearing ppe I am still going to rake the saftey department over the coals. I cut my pinky knuckle open deep on a bus plug today while trying to get some fuse reducers to go in properly and got wrote up for not wearing gloves even though the gloves were causing the problem. I do realise that when I got hurt I could have had my gloves on but that is besides the point. The saftey guy is a **** that has no idea how work is done. This isn't my first run in with the dummy.
> 
> Anyways I was issued electrical gloves when I started with deere over a year and a half ago and have not gotten a new pair or a tested pair since. I have asked for new gloves on several occasions and asked for other needed arc flash PPE and have been ignored every time. I even gave all the part numbers of the PPE I wanted to my supervisor and still have nothing. Technically I don't even have the PPE or up to date PPE to do any electrical work other than a completely new install. Add to that they have only done the arc flash hazard analysis on the main switchgear and the information is no where available to the guys working on the stuff. We have also not had any arc flash saftey training.
> 
> ...


Subpart I is your PPE standard, subpart S is electrical (Including training)
https://www.osha.gov/law-regs.html


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Jhellwig said:


> At my old company I would agree. Here though I have a lot of screwing up left before I get canned. If they want to lay me off the have to lay off 20 other guys first and kick our apprentice e back to his old job classification.


Careful here. If you ruffle the right feathers one of the 20 will move up and take your place.

Just-like-that!!


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Zog said:


> Subpart I is your PPE standard, subpart S is electrical (Including training)
> https://www.osha.gov/law-regs.html


 thanks.:thumbsup:



daveEM said:


> Careful here. If you ruffle the right feathers one of the 20 will move up and take your place.
> 
> Just-like-that!!


I am maintenance in a factory. I am the low man in the electrical class. The 20 other guys are line workers but they still have to be laid off before I get it.


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> I'm convinced the entire safety biz focuses blame on the worker ant, who is placed in a no win scenario


In Ontario it seems that the buck usually stops at the employer. Even if the worker should have known better and had the PPE available, it usually comes down to fining the employer or supervisor for not enforcing safety policies.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

AK_sparky said:


> In Ontario it seems that the buck usually stops at the employer. Even if the worker should have known better and had the PPE available, it usually comes down to fining the employer or supervisor for not enforcing safety policies.


It's the same in the states also.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

As far as Osha is concerned the fine only go to the company however companies can still get after the employee for violating saftey policy. Every company I have worked for has enforced saftey rules and punishments spuraticaly at best. I have even seen them railroad people right out of a job for saftey just because of a personal vendetta.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Jhellwig said:


> I am not going to turn the company into Osha or anything like that but I want to know what is required before I go telling them what needs to be done for saftey. I am working on finding info now but does anyone know some key Osha rules I need to take a look at and what their article numbers are?





Zog said:


> Subpart I is your PPE standard, subpart S is electrical (Including training)
> https://www.osha.gov/law-regs.html


Zog is correct. However, you really also need a copy of the NFPA-70E too; although OSHA states *what* must be done, it does not really specify *how* to comply with these regulations and instead defers to the NFPA-70E, the national consensus standard for electrical safety in the workplace. This is stated in the appendix of Subpart S where references helpful in achieving compliance with these regulations are listed. You can access the NFPA-70E (or any other standard) for free here, although a purchased copy is much more user friendly.

The General Duty Clause is found in section five of the OSH Act of 1970 and essentially means that an employer may be obligated to protect workers from recognized hazards in the workplace even if there is not an OSHA standard which applies to the situation or if the hazard still exists after compliance with a standard. Basically this is the requirement that covers anything not covered elsewhere.

OSHA 1910.132(d)(1) requires the employer to assess the workplace to determine if hazards are present, or are likely to be present, which necessitate the use of personal protective equipment. If such hazards are present the employer must select and have affected personnel use the type of PPE which will protect them from the hazards identified in the assessment. They must also train each affected employee to know what PPE is required, when it is necessary, how to properly wear and care for it and its limitations. OSHA 1910.137 covers rubber insulating PPE (gloves, mats, etc.) and testing requirements. 

1910.332 covers training. 1910.333 covers safe work practices; this is where you’ll find the requirement for de-energization and the limited exceptions to this rule. 1910.335(a)(1)(i) requires that, “employees working in areas where there are potential electrical hazards shall be provided with and shall use electrical protective equipment that is appropriate for the specific parts of the body to be protected and for the work to be performed”.
.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Thank you for the replies.

Is there anything that says how often the training should be done or refreshed? I can find the stuff that says they must train but nothing that says how often.

I just found out today that other plants in our company do 70e training but out plant hasn't given me any. They even replaced a sub station and there has been no arc flash hazard analysis done on that yet.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Who the F installs a new sub without a flash study being a standard part of the engineering and coordination package? It's ridiculous there would be a "yet": That stuff should've been figured during the design phase before anyone even touched a tool.


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

I was going to bring up the NFPA 70E but they beat me to it.



Jhellwig said:


> It wouldn't of matered if I was wearing the dumb cut resistant gloves they have because it would have jabbed right through them but it still would have been my fault for not knowing the hazard and wearing chain mail gloves. All I needed was neosporin and a bandaid but we can't have that stuff in the first aid kits. Heaven forbid someone fix their own boo boo and move on. If I had known it was going to turn out like this I would have used electrical tape to keep a towel on it till I could get home.


If you can get it to temporarily stop bleeding superglue is a good way to seal cuts so long as they are not too deep.

It buys you time until you get to the house where you can properly treat the wound.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jhellwig said:


> While I realise that my injury was my fault for not wearing ppe I am still going to rake the saftey department over the coals. I cut my pinky knuckle open deep on a bus plug today while trying to get some fuse reducers to go in properly and got wrote up for not wearing gloves even though the gloves were causing the problem. I do realise that when I got hurt I could have had my gloves on but that is besides the point. The saftey guy is a **** that has no idea how work is done. This isn't my first run in with the dummy.
> 
> Anyways I was issued electrical gloves when I started with deere over a year and a half ago and have not gotten a new pair or a tested pair since. I have asked for new gloves on several occasions and asked for other needed arc flash PPE and have been ignored every time. I even gave all the part numbers of the PPE I wanted to my supervisor and still have nothing. Technically I don't even have the PPE or up to date PPE to do any electrical work other than a completely new install. Add to that they have only done the arc flash hazard analysis on the main switchgear and the information is no where available to the guys working on the stuff. We have also not had any arc flash saftey training.
> 
> ...


An accident is an accident, is an accident.
You didn't intend to get a cut. 
Don't talk to anyone without your union rep present.
Take whatever first aid you need and maybe say something like " I don't know how it happened". Don't accept blame. 
If it's reportable or a lost time injury, it will escalate a bit.
You should have a right to representation, use it.
This is your livelyhood, be as professional as you can and take whatever advise you can from your representative.
You
This incident might help expose some problems that could cost someone their life.

There are exceptions to wearing gloves around specific equipment and I also wouldn't thing you would want to stick a chain mail glove inside the plane of an energized piece of gear.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

jrannis said:


> An accident is an accident, is an accident.
> You didn't intend to get a cut.
> Don't talk to anyone without your union rep present.
> Take whatever first aid you need and maybe say something like " I don't know how it happened". Don't accept blame.
> ...


I got out of the write up easy. I told them my side of the story exactly and the told them that they are now creating an environment that encourages people not to report injury and cover them up. The union saftey guy also stood up for me and said that we are told in training that we can take our gloves off for dexterity. The next day the dropped it but I was told to watch.my ass cause the company saftey guy is pissed.


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## luckylerado (Mar 19, 2010)

Jhellwig said:


> While I realise that my injury was my fault for not wearing ppe I am still going to rake the saftey department over the coals.


:thumbdown:


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Jhellwig said:


> Thank you for the replies. Is there anything that says how often the training should be done or refreshed? I can find the stuff that says they must train but nothing that says how often. I just found out today that other plants in our company do 70e training but out plant hasn't given me any. They even replaced a sub station and there has been no arc flash hazard analysis done on that yet.


Refresher training is every Two years.


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