# 210.52(a)(1) Distance between receptacles



## DanMott (Jan 9, 2015)

Hello from the frigid Northeast!

I got into a heated debate with my boss today about the distance between two outlets in a dwelling unit. 
We started a rennovation today and I had gone through laying out boxes according to the code requirements. Code says that no point on a wall shall be more than 6' from an outlet. This literally means that you can have no more than 12' between two outlets. Boss is trying to tell me that inspectors wont pass if the outlets are that far apart and that he's been doing it for so long that he's right and Im wrong. He made me actually remove some of them so that we can have outlets every 6'. While his way is not technically wrong, it sure is overkill.
Im trying to find out who I need to get in touch with that can prove Im right about this code. Im not doing this to argue with my boss, Im doing this so that we dont miss out on potential work due to overbidding. 

Thanks in advance for the help!!

- Dan


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> *(A) General Provisions.* In every kitchen, family room,
> dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom,
> bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of
> dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accor-
> ...



~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

You're right, but he's the boss. Duh.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

You know full well that you are right. You've even cited the code article. Unless you can tactfully show your boss the code article, it will be a long fight that will eventually lead to your dismissal. What could you possibly want us to say?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Fire your boss!:thumbup:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

This is your boss you're talking about??


How sad is that. Meaning he's that clueless.
Does he even own code book?


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

DanMott said:


> Hello from the frigid Northeast!
> 
> I got into a heated debate with my boss today about the distance between two outlets in a dwelling unit.
> We started a rennovation today and I had gone through laying out boxes according to the code requirements. Code says that no point on a wall shall be more than 6' from an outlet. This literally means that you can have no more than 12' between two outlets. Boss is trying to tell me that inspectors wont pass if the outlets are that far apart and that he's been doing it for so long that he's right and Im wrong. He made me actually remove some of them so that we can have outlets every 6'. While his way is not technically wrong, it sure is overkill.
> ...


If its that important to you, offer to pay any red tag fees, as well as any labor it takes to correct the issue should you be proven wrong.

Otherwise, just do as your told.

As long as there are no local codes that say otherwise, you are right though.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is your boss you're talking about??
> 
> 
> How sad is that. Meaning he's that clueless.
> Does he even own code book?


I'll bet he is a Master Electrician too:laughing:


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

DanMott said:


> Hello from the frigid Northeast!
> 
> I got into a heated debate with my boss today about the distance between two outlets in a dwelling unit.
> We started a rennovation today and I had gone through laying out boxes according to the code requirements. Code says that no point on a wall shall be more than 6' from an outlet. This literally means that you can have no more than 12' between two outlets. Boss is trying to tell me that inspectors wont pass if the outlets are that far apart and that he's been doing it for so long that he's right and Im wrong. He made me actually remove some of them so that we can have outlets every 6'. While his way is not technically wrong, it sure is overkill.
> ...


Hello Dan Welcome aboard:thumbup:

Your Boss is wrong, however he may be selling the jobs with the extra outlets and just wants all those extra receptacles so just take the ride with him for now.

When you go out on your own, do not worry about "overbidding" you do not want to be the lowest priced guy, you will be much better off selling at a higher price, winning those bids at the higher price and losing the walhmart clients.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I'll go the 12' rule but I'll add to make them evenly spaced.
Sometimes having the only one behind a couch or a beds headboard just doesn't make sense to me.


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

The NEC is the first step above illegal.



Now ask him what the maximum height of those receptacles can be to comply.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Black Dog said:


> I'll bet he is a Master Electrician too:laughing:


I bet we all know a few guys who've been flying by the seat of their pants for years. Still going by what they learned their first couple of years in the trade and barely keeping up with code changes.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

ralpha494 said:


> The NEC is the first step above illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Now ask him what the maximum height of those receptacles can be to comply.


210.53.(B)4 (c) No Receptacle shall be lower than 48" on centre....:whistling2::laughing:


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## Carultch (May 14, 2013)

Black Dog said:


> 210.53.(B)4 (c) No Receptacle shall be lower than 48" on centre....:whistling2::laughing:


I see in-floor and kickspace receptacles all the time. How does this rule apply to them?


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Carultch said:


> I see in-floor and kickspace receptacles all the time. How does this rule apply to them?





:laughing:

I hate those, it is the most painful work ever and the electricians that agreed to do that should be dug up and shot!!!


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> I bet we all know a few guys who've been flying by the seat of their pants for years. Still going by what they learned their first couple of years in the trade and barely keeping up with code changes.


Man You know it:no:

Many of the code update classes we must take here require that you either buy a code book from them or have one with you, but not all do that so some of these guys slip through the cracks in the system here.

I hire guys short term and find that many really do not know the code or even care for it.

I try to weed them out at the start but it is not always clear .


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Lay out the boxes 12' apart
Now mark 6' between the boxes
Lay out your tape measure on the floor, box to box
Ask your boss to stand at the 6' mark
Get another tape and hand it to him
Ask him to measure from the 6' mark to each box
Confirm that it is 6'
Show him the code, not tell him the code, get out the book
Ask him if he can go 6' to either receptacle from the center/6' mark

Last, smile, ask him when you're check will be ready!:laughing:
You're right, but I doubt he will admit it.:no:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

There are, i'm informed, local amendments to the spacing out there in the 'NEC' world......

~CS~


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

1. The boss could be wrong and clueless
2. The boss could be getting paid per outlet, more outlets = more money

Either way, he signs your paycheck, do what you're told.
We all have bosses, it's the person paying you, it may be an employer, maybe a home owner, maybe a manufacturer. in my case it's usually the GC. If he tells me to do something, I do it. I may suggest options but getting into a heated discussion will just get me in trouble.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The confusion is the 6' wording. The idea is that a lamp or piece of equipment with a 6' cord can be placed anywhere along the wall and it would be able to reach a receptacle. The reason they went to 4'-- or no more than 2' from anywhere on the counter is because most appliances will only come with a 2' cord. 

Does your boss install kitchen outlets 2' apart????


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

Black Dog said:


> 210.53.(B)4 (c) No Receptacle shall be lower than 48" on centre....:whistling2::laughing:


Actually, it's 5 - 1/2 feet. 

In the opening paragraph of 210.52 (4) in the '11 NEC.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> 210.53.(B)4 (c) No Receptacle shall be lower than 48" on centre....:whistling2::laughing:





ralpha494 said:


> Actually, it's 5 - 1/2 feet.
> 
> In the opening paragraph of 210.52 (4) in the '11 NEC.


BlackDog was making a joke, there is no such article. No articke 210.53 at all. 


> 210.53.(B)4 (c)


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> ...Does your boss install kitchen outlets 2' apart????


 Seen that one a couple times. Always good for a laugh.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

wow, and I thought that MASS was big on code classes


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> ~CS~


Isn't it 4 feet on counter tops?


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

I like under cabinet plugmold in kitchens.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

If you do everything to the minimum, you will soon have upset customers , and word of mouth gets around fast. I like having outlets about every eight feet, and laugh as you will, my kitchen counters are riddled with recepts. Seems like I never have too many. Minimums are what you have to do for the inspector.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

Max height for receptacles is 18" high and 18" from the wall for floor receptacles in order to meet code.

PJHolguin



Carultch said:


> I see in-floor and kickspace receptacles all the time. How does this rule apply to them?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

pjholguin said:


> Max height for receptacles is 18" high and 18" from the wall for floor receptacles in order to meet code.
> 
> PJHolguin


18" max height.....huh?:blink:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

pjholguin said:


> Max height for receptacles is 18" high and 18" from the wall for floor receptacles in order to meet code.
> 
> PJHolguin


You're slightly confused dude


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> Isn't it 4 feet on counter tops?


Pretty much so Riv, based on most resi kitchen appliances having a 2' cord

~CS~


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

pjholguin said:


> Max height for receptacles is 18" high and 18" from the wall for floor receptacles in order to meet code.
> 
> PJHolguin


If you hurry, you can still get the whole Mike Holt library of training dvd's at half price. Sale ends soon. There are some soft spots in your code knowledge. Good luck to you.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

cl219um said:


> If you do everything to the minimum, you will soon have upset customers , and word of mouth gets around fast....


 I think there's more than a little exaggeration here. I would wager that the vast majority of houses have receptacles installed at code minimum spacing. Nobody is getting pissed off over that.

If a customer wants drastically more outlets for some reason, they can specify that and pay for it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Depends on budget. When estimating, I will look at it strictly according to code first. If there is going to be heavy customer involvement and I expect changes on the fly, I will add a fudge factor. That way I'm not saying, "That will be an extra" all the time. I don't randomly place receptacles closer together than the code requirement. That takes more time, material, home runs, breakers, etc. I would rather adjust my spacing for expected furniture placement, etc.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

My bad on the height.



A Little Short said:


> 18" max height.....huh?:blink:


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

My bad on the height...the soft spots come with age.



macmikeman said:


> If you hurry, you can still get the whole Mike Holt library of training dvd's at half price. Sale ends soon. There are some soft spots in your code knowledge. Good luck to you.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

To All,
So what height do you find acceptable to place a receptacle?

18" to the top of the box for me.

PJHolguin


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Hammer height




:jester:


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

duplicate post.

PJHolguin


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

pjholguin said:


> To All,
> So what height do you find acceptable to place a receptacle?
> 
> 18" to the top of the box for me.
> ...


24"to top. Even 24" to bottom if I think I can get away with it on specific job. 61 year old knees, trying to make them last another 29 years.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Hammer Height.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

pjholguin said:


> To All,
> So what height do you find acceptable to place a receptacle?
> 
> 18" to the top of the box for me.
> ...


Laser level on top of a milk crate  .


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

99cents said:


> Laser level on top of a milk crate  .


Canadian or American crate?


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## sparkz1 (Jan 16, 2015)

Tell your boss you will do what ever he wishes,,

And If It Takes All The Time And Money He Has, You Will Get It Done His Way!!

He's the Boss and he's writing the check,,

Load the walls with boxes


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## dlvbasys (Jan 2, 2015)

I could be happy to have same boss - more receptacles means more time to install them, and finally more money at end of week... say thanks and never to try to change his mind:thumbup:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

just went through this post again and im still confused. if you set recs at 12' apart and REMOVE some, wont they be more than 12' apart?(OP):whistling2:


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## Carultch (May 14, 2013)

papaotis said:


> just went through this post again and im still confused. if you set recs at 12' apart and REMOVE some, wont they be more than 12' apart?(OP):whistling2:


At least they started correctly. If you need to remove a receptacle in the future and cannot install a neighboring one to maintain compliance with the NEC, then it is best to get your exception approved in writing from the AHJ prior to beginning work.

If you are unable to place receptacles at 12 ft on center due to obstacles, then you reduce this spacing as needed to work around them. For instance, if you are aligning around building columns that are 32 ft apart, you might opt to place your receptacles at 8 ft on center. An improvement above the requirement in the NEC, which might better for your application.

If you know that one particular obstruction will be where a receptacle needs to be, then you place a receptacle on each end of it.


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

pjholguin said:


> To All,
> So what height do you find acceptable to place a receptacle?
> 
> 18" to the top of the box for me.
> ...


20" to top for receptacles. 48" to top of switches and countertop receptacles. Usually cut board to mark the floor receptacles.. sometimes a board to mark drill holes.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

pjholguin said:


> To All,
> So what height do you find acceptable to place a receptacle?
> 
> 18" to the top of the box for me.
> ...



I use a stick rule and open it to 13" and set my box on it. For switches we open the ruler to 43" and place the box on it.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Do any of you take into account the finished floor or do you just use whatever measurement from the subfloor?

I was thinking that for switches and the top of box was 48" that would be at the top of the drywall. But if they didn't put up the drywall until the final floor height then the box would be a little less than the top of the drywall.

That wouldn't make the drywall guys very happy having a small "slither" of drywall needing to go above the box.:no:

Just wondering!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

A Little Short said:


> Do any of you take into account the finished floor or do you just use whatever measurement from the subfloor?
> 
> I was thinking that for switches and the top of box was 48" that would be at the top of the drywall. But if they didn't put up the drywall until the final floor height then the box would be a little less than the top of the drywall.
> 
> ...


My measurements are from subfloor. I don't worry about 3/4". When the job is done the switches are 42 1/4" of the floor to the bottom of the box


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i put mine 50" to the top. that way the drywallers have to cut both sheets and they use so mud anyway that by the time you clean out the box it doesnt matter!:laughing:


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I use a stick rule and open it to 13" and set my box on it. For switches we open the ruler to 43" and place the box on it.


That's real close to the heights I use. The top of my eastwing is 13 1/2", and mark switches and counter plugs at 43" to bottom. Sometimes I'll cut a piece of pex at 43 and buzz around with that.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Should have read the whole thread before responding.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

sparkz1 said:


> Tell your boss you will do what ever he wishes,,
> 
> And If It Takes All The Time And Money He Has, You Will Get It Done His Way!!
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard..:thumbsup:


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## Carultch (May 14, 2013)

Funny how your name is foursquare, and you're replying to a post about receptacle locations.


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## Tom Solanto (Mar 11, 2011)

This is wiring 101. If your boss does not know this simple rule.... YIKES..... He is throwing his money out the window. 250.52. It's that simple.


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## Carultch (May 14, 2013)

A Little Short said:


> Do any of you take into account the finished floor or do you just use whatever measurement from the subfloor?
> 
> I was thinking that for switches and the top of box was 48" that would be at the top of the drywall. But if they didn't put up the drywall until the final floor height then the box would be a little less than the top of the drywall.
> 
> ...


This isn't like work space, where it is a safety issue for which an inspector won't even allow a single inch less than the NEC.

This is more of a strategy to meet the location where people will most likely go, in order to find the electrical device. No occupant of a building will have a difficult time using the switch or receptacle due to it being slightly off from what the NEC requires.

So yeah, if you want to arrange it to be an inch off, in order to coordinate with the drywall trade...no big deal.

The real safety issues to a receptacle or switch being at the wrong elevation, are as follows:
1. It might be out of reach from a person who needs to use it. Sometimes this might be desired if you are installing a convenience outlet for maintenance of ceiling level equipment. But for general receptacles, you need them to be where people on the finished floor can use them.
2. It might enable excessive unsupported slack in the flexible appliance cord. That's why we don't want our receptacles 5 ft AFF.


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

You kind of stretch your interpretation of the code do you not? Try to put outlets 12 feet apart you get red tagged. Linear feet is along the wall 6 feet between each outlet.Outlets 6 feet apart.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

b-cap said:


> You kind of stretch your interpretation of the code do you not? Try to put outlets 12 feet apart you get red tagged. Linear feet is along the wall 6 feet between each outlet.Outlets 6 feet apart.


If you are getting red tagged for having 12' between receptacles on an unbroken wall then your inspector is not enforcing the NEC as written and letting him do that is costing the company money. 

Nothing wrong with installing more than code minimum, but the NEC is complied with at 12' from receptacle to receptacle on unbroken wall spaces.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Hammer Height.


I've never done that but I'll have to measure my hammer and see how it comes out.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

b-cap said:


> You kind of stretch your interpretation of the code do you not? Try to put outlets 12 feet apart you get red tagged. Linear feet is along the wall 6 feet between each outlet.Outlets 6 feet apart.


Code reference please?:001_huh:


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

MTW said:


> I've never done that but I'll have to measure my hammer and see how it comes out.


Depends on the hammer it's really fast and very consistent.... the thing is that everyone on your crew setting boxes has to have the same hammer. 


The crew I apprenticed on used hammer height, I still carry that same hammer, but I set boxes with a tape.


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Carultch said:


> Funny how your name is foursquare, and you're replying to a post about receptacle locations.


:001_huh: 
Funny how, I mean funny, like I'm a clown? I amuse you, I make you laugh? I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny?


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

five.five-six said:


> Depends on the hammer it's really fast and very consistent.... the thing is that everyone on your crew setting boxes has to have the same hammer.
> 
> 
> The crew I apprenticed on used hammer height, I still carry that same hammer, but I set boxes with a tape.


Other guys can just tape their hammer if it's taller. It's still faster than pulling out a tape, and just as accurate.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

4SQUARE said:


> Other guys can just tape their hammer if it's taller. It's still faster than pulling out a tape, and just as accurate.


No, the way you do it is to stick the head of the hammer in the box, and the handle of the hammer on the subfloor, press the box against the stud with your left hand, then down till the hammer stops it from going any lower and the little tangs keep it from going back to far, then you just keep the box in place with your left hand and use the hammer already in your hand to drive the nails in. You can do whole thing in seconds with your eyes closed and the box is at exactly the same height every time.


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

five.five-six said:


> No, the way you do it is to stick the head of the hammer in the box, and the handle of the hammer on the subfloor, press the box against the stud with your left hand, then down till the hammer stops it from going any lower and the little tangs keep it from going back to far, then you just keep the box in place with your left hand and use the hammer already in your hand to drive the nails in. You can do whole thing in seconds with your eyes closed and the box is at exactly the same height every time.


Huh, never done it that way. I rest the bottom of the box on top of the handle, everything else is as you describe. Either way you have to swing the hammer.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> I'll go the 12' rule but I'll add to make them evenly spaced.
> Sometimes having the only one behind a couch or a beds headboard just doesn't make sense to me.


 True and having one behind an open door.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

I try to add value to a job by suggesting switch locations less than 48" and receptacles more than 18" to comply with the ADA, especially with older clients.

Also, using quad receptacles on countertops and computer workstations. 

I doesn't cost that much more and some folks love it.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

b-cap said:


> You kind of stretch your interpretation of the code do you not? Try to put outlets 12 feet apart you get red tagged. Linear feet is along the wall 6 feet between each outlet.Outlets 6 feet apart.



You need to read 210.52(A)(1) real slow and tell us how you came up with that statement. True it doesn't say "12 ft" but you do the math.




> (A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room,
> dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom,
> bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of
> dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance
> ...


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

4SQUARE said:


> Huh, never done it that way. I rest the bottom of the box on top of the handle, everything else is as you describe. Either way you have to swing the hammer.



Head of the hammer goes inside the box, butt of the hammer goes on the subfloor, pressed against the plate line. Inside top of the box rests on the head of the hammer. Hold the box in place, remove hammer ans swing away. It's sooooo fassssssssssst!


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

five.five-six said:


> Head of the hammer goes inside the box, butt of the hammer goes on the subfloor, pressed against the plate line. Inside top of the box rests on the head of the hammer. Hold the box in place, remove hammer ans swing away. It's sooooo fassssssssssst!


And makes the box soooooooooooo lowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

A Little Short said:


> And makes the box soooooooooooo lowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!


I told you, I use a tape.


You know, hammers come in different sizes. :whistling2:


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## Carultch (May 14, 2013)

4SQUARE said:


> :001_huh:
> Funny how, I mean funny, like I'm a clown? I amuse you, I make you laugh? I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny?


Well, now I'm laughing even more than when I first made that comment. I guess you do amuse me.


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## Carultch (May 14, 2013)

A Little Short said:


> You need to read 210.52(A)(1) real slow and tell us how you came up with that statement. True it doesn't say "12 ft" but you do the math.


Do you think that there is a reason why the NEC uses doesn't simply say _"receptacles shall be spaced no farther than 12 ft on-center along the floor line of any wall"_?

As another example, when the NEC specifies the span of conduit, it doesn't say "*conduit shall be supported such that no point on the conduit is farther than 5 ft along the centerline of the conduit from a support point*", it uses the dimension of 10 ft. The on-center spacing of the supports plain and simple. Rather than a round-about way of specifying only half of the spacing.


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## Expediter (Mar 12, 2014)

A Little Short said:


> Do any of you take into account the finished floor or do you just use whatever measurement from the subfloor?
> 
> I was thinking that for switches and the top of box was 48" that would be at the top of the drywall. But if they didn't put up the drywall until the final floor height then the box would be a little less than the top of the drywall.
> 
> ...


Personally I don't care what the sheetrockers think. They don't care that they zipped the box too big, buried it, hit my wires, and then the tapers fill it with mud if they can.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Carultch said:


> Do you think that there is a reason why the NEC uses doesn't simply say _"receptacles shall be spaced no farther than 12 ft on-center along the floor line of any wall"_?


I do think there is a reason. There is more to being 12"' apart. You need to be within 6' of any opening or breaks in the wall. Most lamps, etc come with 6' cords so the thinking is that no spot along a wall shall be more than 6' from a receptacle. I should be able to set a lamp down anywhere along the wall and reach a receptacles with the cord.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I do think there is a reason. There is more to being 12"' apart. You need to be within 6' of any opening or breaks in the wall. Most lamps, etc come with 6' cords so the thinking is that no spot along a wall shall be more than 6' from a receptacle. I should be able to set a lamp down anywhere along the wall and reach a receptacles with the cord.


That's the way I always understood the reasoning also. The only thing I think that should be different is instead of 6' it should be 5'. The reasoning is that a lamp with a 6' cord needs enough slack in the cord to be able to plug into the outlet which is facing 90 degrees from the way the cord is stretched. So, you really can't get that lamp 6' away from the receptacle and still plug it in.


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## Tyreese (Feb 21, 2015)

So when figuring this 12' out what would constitute dead space? Anything above an electric heater and other such things


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I do think there is a reason. There is more to being 12"' apart. You need to be within 6' of any opening or breaks in the wall. Most lamps, etc come with 6' cords so the thinking is that no spot along a wall shall be more than 6' from a receptacle. I should be able to set a lamp down anywhere along the wall and reach a receptacles with the cord.


I could be completely wrong, but I thought it was because permanent installation of cordset exceeding 6' was a violation of fire code. That's the BS I have been selling my customers anyways.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

five.five-six said:


> I could be completely wrong, but I thought it was because permanent installation of cordset exceeding 6' was a violation of fire code. That's the BS I have been selling my customers anyways.


That sounds like what I stated except that you are saying it is code that the cord be not more than 6'. I was saying cords are generally 6'.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Tyreese said:


> So when figuring this 12' out what would constitute dead space? Anything above an electric heater and other such things


Not sure where the words dead space are in what was quoted above


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## Tyreese (Feb 21, 2015)

" Dead space" was not quoted from anything. It's a term I used to refer to the area you don't have to include when using the 12' rule that the whole thread has been about. And in a new install I usually cut an 18" piece of strapping to mark the height of each receptacle I'm putting up.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Tyreese said:


> " Dead space" was not quoted from anything. It's a term I used to refer to the area you don't have to include when using the 12' rule that the whole thread has been about. And in a new install I usually cut an 18" piece of strapping to mark the height of each receptacle I'm putting up.


There are no "excluded" wall areas. Ie; no such thing as "dead space".
Wall space is wall space. Even fixed glass panels and railings are considered wall space.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> There are no "excluded" wall areas. Ie; no such thing as "dead space".
> Wall space is wall space. Even fixed glass panels and railings are considered wall space.



I remember the example in the C10 test where a glass wall would need floor receps.


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## Monkeyboy (Jul 28, 2012)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I try to add value to a job by suggesting switch locations less than 48" and receptacles more than 18" to comply with the ADA, especially with older clients. Also, using quad receptacles on countertops and computer workstations. I doesn't cost that much more and some folks love it.


I completely agree especially in baths two dbl duplex.


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

You can read it as slow as you want, if you are going to space them so far apart why be concerned about that 2 foot space.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

five.five-six said:


> I remember the example in the C10 test where a glass wall would need floor receps.


Back when I first started _"I was told"_ the fixed part of sliding glass doors and behind door swings didn't count. Then I read the code for myself.

This is why I am always skeptical when someone starts off a statement:_ "I was always told....."_


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## Lectric (Nov 22, 2014)

We install general purpose outlets 15" off the floor bottom of box, switches at 50". we also space our receptacles every 10-11 feet apart and within the first 6' of a room usually it winds up within the first 2'. Countertops are to code within the first 24" and within 24" of a sink and we try to put them 32" apart using 16" on center construction. The only time I have encountered problems with "not enough" outlets is from a "friend" of a homeowner who does not understand that the 6' rule means that the receptacle covers it in both directions. Speedy Petey thats funny you say that about sliding glass doors and door swings because I was "taught" the same way till I read it for myself.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

b-cap said:


> You can read it as slow as you want, if you are going to space them so far apart why be concerned about that 2 foot space.


Because it is usable wall space.


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

You mean to tell me you install 4 outlets in a 12x12 room?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

yes.......

~CS~


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

b-cap said:


> You mean to tell me you install 4 outlets in a 12x12 room?


I would probably end up doing 5 if it was a bedroom, but yes 4 is all that's required.


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

I, don't see it. How did you hood wink an inspector to buy into that? As I said before that is stretching the code. It was designed so that a lamp cord could reach an outlet any place in the room. It was also to stop the use of extension cords.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

b-cap said:


> I, don't see it. How did you hood wink an inspector to buy into that? As I said before that is stretching the code. It was designed so that a lamp cord could reach an outlet any place in the room. It was also to stop the use of extension cords.


door--6'--receptacle--12'--receptacle--12'--receptacle--12'--receptacle--6'--door

4 receptacle, 48' wall, what hoodwink?


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

Explain, how do you get 12 feet out of 6 feet? The code states that receptacles are to be placed where receptacles are not more than 6 feet from an outlet.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

b-cap said:


> Explain, how do you get 12 feet out of 6 feet? The code states that receptacles are to be placed where receptacles are not more than 6 feet from an outlet.


Hahahahahaah receptacles cannot be more than 6 feet from an outlet. Hahahahahahash


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

b-cap said:


> explain, how do you get 12 feet out of 6 feet? The code states that receptacles are to be placed where receptacles are not more than 6 feet from an outlet.


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

recepticle outlet


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

The last I checked 12 feet is not 6 feet. If what you are saying is correct it would have stated 12 instead of 6.


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

Try that here you will never get green tag.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

b-cap said:


> The last I checked 12 feet is not 6 feet. If what you are saying is correct it would have stated 12 instead of 6.


Re read the article closely. It states that AT NO POINT ON A WALL, shall be no further than 6' from an outlet. 



So, forget what you think it says, and picture this. 




Stand a lamp up on a wall. This lamp has a six foot cord. Stretch the cord to the right AS FAR AS YOU CAN. The cord barely reaches the outlet to the right. 



Ok. Got that? 



Now stretch it to the left AS FAR AS IT CAN TO THE LEFT. The cord barely reaches the outlet to the left. 




You have not moved the lamp. 



There is 12' between those two outlets.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Stop being silly and read son


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

b-cap said:


> The last I checked 12 feet is not 6 feet. If what you are saying is correct it would have stated 12 instead of 6.


Y'all must work really cheap to be competitive with ECs that do this by the code. 

There is nothing wrong with what you do, and I'm sure the homeowners are thrilled they have so many receptacles.


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

I actually can't believe that this thread is still going on. b-cap, you are clearly not comprehending what the code says and what people are telling you. The code does not say that receptacles must be 6 feet apart. It says a point on the wall can not be more than 6 feet from a receptacle. That means that receptacles can be up to, but no more than, 12 feet apart. As mcclary's electrical has very clearly shown, receptacles that are 12 feet apart have no more than 6 feet from any point on a wall to a receptacle. It is a pretty simple concept and it is code.


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> True and having one behind an open door.


Coming from commercial, I am famous for putting them in hallways and adding an extra one behind bedroom doors. The lady of the house loves me because there is always a receptacle behind the door to plug the vacuum into without moving anything!


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Hawkrod said:


> The lady of the house loves me because there is always a receptacle behind the door to plug the vacuum into without moving anything!


That could be used as a sales tool. :thumbsup:


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## b-cap (Oct 7, 2014)

I give, but electrical inspectors here do not see it that way. I had an inspector give me heck, he said you know better than that. I said I tried.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

b-cap said:


> Explain, how do you get 12 feet out of 6 feet? The code states that receptacles are to be placed where receptacles are not more than 6 feet from an outlet.


O never mind, others have already answered


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Hawkrod said:


> Coming from commercial, I am famous for putting them in hallways and adding an extra one behind bedroom doors. *The lady of the house loves me because there is always a receptacle behind the door to plug the vacuum into without moving anything!*


All the faster she can get back to making sammiches in the kitchen.


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

b-cap said:


> The last I checked 12 feet is not 6 feet. If what you are saying is correct it would have stated 12 instead of 6.


It took rereading this for the light to come on, the code book does not say that the receptacles need to be 6 feet apart. It does not say anything like that but that is what you seem to be reading. You asked where the 12 came from and that is easy, 6 feet per receptacle times two receptacles is 12 feet which is exactly what the code does say:

210.52(A)(1) 
* Spacing.* Receptacles shall be installed such that no 
point measured horizontally along the floor line of any wall 
space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.


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## Lectric (Nov 22, 2014)

five.five-six said:


> All the faster she can get back to making sammiches in the kitchen.


Now thats funny, I don't care who you are:laughing:


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