# Starting out in the union, quick question



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Did you not test out to see where you would be placed?


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## Thxdts (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi and thanks for the response. I haven't even talked to anyone from the union at all so I am not sure what your talking about. Will the union do that?


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Welcome aboard!



I think you can get better information if you give your location. At least give the state and general location in the state.


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## Thxdts (Apr 20, 2010)

Maryland, Local 24


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Thxdts said:


> Hi and thanks for the response. I haven't even talked to anyone from the union at all so I am not sure what your talking about. Will the union do that?


Talking to the union hall is where I would start.......

~Matt


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

You probably won't get anything...

But you probably won't have any regrets after you're done!


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

I started at a higher pay rate because of experience, but started as a 1st year apprentice. Every local is different


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

If you can even get into the apprentice program you are lucky right now. It's worth it just for the schooling and different experience you'll get. From what I've seen union apprentices work more than journeyman, union or non-union. Non-union as a apprentice you will probably cap your pay at a much lower level than union. So make less for a few years then make more or keep doing what you're doing.


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## Thxdts (Apr 20, 2010)

Another question, does union schooling start only one time a year like non union apprenticeship programs?


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## circuit-machine (Sep 10, 2010)

Hey man. It will be all good. Go check it out and I bet you will be paid more than you do at an open shop. Anyhow, I like it...


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## Melissa809 (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm Local 3 NYC and if you get into the apprenticeship you start as a 1st year...no ifs, ands or buts. If you come in back door...i.e. a non-union shop goes union....I believe you get a higher rate, however it takes longer to get your A-card. In addition, you have the M-dog stigma attached to you!!!! lol


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Melissa809 said:


> I'm Local 3 NYC and if you get into the apprenticeship you start as a 1st year...no ifs, ands or buts. If you come in back door...i.e. a non-union shop goes union....I believe you get a higher rate, however it takes longer to get your A-card. In addition, you have the M-dog stigma attached to you!!!! lol



Every local will handle this differently, most all will make you start from scratch as the union feels open shop electricians know nothing. But where they start you financially will vary.

M-dog?


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## Melissa809 (Aug 28, 2008)

lol...yeah. I guess every local has its own "lingo". These back door guys, depending on their skills may get A-rate, but their cards say M at A-rate and they can work on A-jobs. Sometimes, these are the guy that are not as knowledgeable as journeymen who went through the "academy".....not saying that A-journeymen are Mr/Ms. studious, but we do go through 4 years of theory....5 years of college and numerous other classes are required of us: rigging...motor control...fire alarm....telephone/data. However, in the defense of M-dogs, these classes are also available for everyone to take, though mandatory of aprentices.

On a side note, the M in m-dog sometimes stands for mutt lol


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## jbof79 (Oct 21, 2010)

Here in NYC the secondary rate division is the M division. Its made up of all of the people who were orginized in. They call them M-Dogs because many of the journeyman who went through the apperanticeship program think they are mutts. Truth be told some are very good, some are ok and a lot suck. But the same thing can be said about the A division


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Melissa809 said:


> lol...yeah. I guess every local has its own "lingo". These back door guys, depending on their skills may get A-rate, but their cards say M at A-rate and they can work on A-jobs. Sometimes, these are the guy that are not as knowledgeable as journeymen who went through the "academy".....not saying that A-journeymen are Mr/Ms. studious, but we do go through 4 years of theory....5 years of college and numerous other classes are required of us: rigging...motor control...fire alarm....telephone/data. However, in the defense of M-dogs, these classes are also available for everyone to take, though mandatory of aprentices.
> 
> On a side note, the M in m-dog sometimes stands for mutt lol


Melissa, not trying to give you a hard time as this is more an overall union mentality issue.

A true sign of brotherhood, and typical of union mentality, you just can't be as good as we are.

Yet I'd bet the top 3 open shop men on this site will smoke all the brothers that are members here.

So poor marketing.
Salting
and better than thou.

Slick you have your work cut out.


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## Melissa809 (Aug 28, 2008)

Wow, if you read my first response...I put a "lol" after the 
whole M-dog thing...meaning, I think it is a bit unfair. However, and maybe it's different by you.....but I have worked with plenty of M-guys. Let me tell you how it works here. A shop goes union and the owner vouches for his son/cousin/buddy who "works" for him that he is qualified to be M at A-rate....and guess what...voila...a journeyman is born. This may not always be the case, but sometimes it is. ANd while you claim that plenty of non-union guys on this board would blow away enough union guys....brother, not a Local 3 New York City A-journeyman. And yes, i'm a bit arrogant in that respect, because we ARE the cream of the crop!

Alright, Slick???


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Melissa809 said:


> Wow, if you read my first response...I put a "lol" after the
> whole M-dog thing...meaning, I think it is a bit unfair. However, and maybe it's different by you.....but I have worked with plenty of M-guys. Let me tell you how it works here. A shop goes union and the owner vouches for his son/cousin/buddy who "works" for him that he is qualified to be M at A-rate....and guess what...voila...a journeyman is born. This may not always be the case, but sometimes it is. ANd while you claim that plenty of non-union guys on this board would blow away enough union guys....brother, not a Local 3 New York City A-journeyman. And yes, i'm a bit arrogant in that respect, because we ARE the cream of the crop!
> 
> Alright, Slick???



You sound like an idiot.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

[B said:


> brian john[/b];317223]
> 
> So poor marketing.
> Salting
> ...



It is an up hill battle. But I'm in to S&M, I enjoy pain.:blink:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Melissa809 said:


> ANd while you claim that plenty of non-union guys on this board would blow away enough union guys....brother, not a Local 3 New York City A-journeyman. And yes, i'm _a bit arrogant_ in that respect, because we ARE the cream of the crop!


A bit arrogant?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Am I am the top 3? I'll take my chances with this group


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> Yet I'd bet the top 3 open shop men on this site will smoke all the brothers that are members here.


Whatever you moody old fart.

Me and my bud roped a 1400sqft 3 br house start to finish in 5.5 hours. That's service, electric range, electric dryer, but gas furnace and gas water heater. Everything made up like tits, looked like the romex was ironed. All neuts and grounds landed with two working plugs. The full rough-in deal. We did this on a daily basis. So GFY and blow me. :thumbsup:

And BTW, that was working for a rat contractor. Blow my old boss too, because you love rats so much.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Whatever you moody old fart.
> Me and my bud roped a 1400sqft 3 br house start to finish in 5.5 hours. That's service, electric range, electric dryer, but gas furnace and gas water heater. Everything made up like tits, looked like the romex was ironed. All neuts and grounds landed with two working plugs. The full rough-in deal. We did this on a daily basis. So GFY and blow me.
> And BTW, that was working for a rat contractor. Blow my old boss too, because you love rats so much.


You're just upset cause you know it's the truth :laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> You're just upset cause you know it's the truth :laughing:


whatever maintenance boy.

you have no idea what its like to chug two rockstars and move in spasms because everyone is so scared for their job. Every day.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> ...you have no idea what its like to chug two rockstars and move in spasms because everyone is so scared for their job. Every day.


Try PLC programming while twitching cause you just drank like a gallon of mountain dew. :thumbup:




miller_elex said:


> whatever maintenance boy.


Don't make me come to Cali and make your local look bad.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Melissa809 said:


> Wow, if you read my first response...I put a "lol" after the
> whole M-dog thing...meaning, I think it is a bit unfair. However, and maybe it's different by you.....but I have worked with plenty of M-guys. Let me tell you how it works here. A shop goes union and the owner vouches for his son/cousin/buddy who "works" for him that he is qualified to be M at A-rate....and guess what...voila...a journeyman is born. This may not always be the case, but sometimes it is. ANd while you claim that plenty of non-union guys on this board would blow away enough union guys....brother, not a Local 3 New York City A-journeyman. And yes, i'm a bit arrogant in that respect, because we ARE the cream of the crop!
> 
> Alright, Slick???


Slick is the pro union member that really feels the union is great but needs to make some changes, I was just listing the changes for him.

I know your LOL, and therefore posted I was not picking on you but a union mentality.

As for a JW being born? What to heck makes you think a guy that works open shop is not a JW?

I have worked in local 3 in NYC territory and what I saw was no better and no worse that what I have seen around the rest of country. Actually saw some real crappy work in NYC on a NEW PROJECT.

Do no fall for the union line that you are better than open shop men YOU personally may be, but the average electrician in your local is just another slug. My number one complaint about the super pro union members on this forum is the NEVER post anything in the electrical sections. Mostly because they cannot hold their own?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Whatever you moody old fart.
> 
> So GFY and blow me. :thumbsup:
> 
> And BTW, that was working for a rat contractor. Blow my old boss too, because you love rats so much.



And illegals do this everyday in the resi market.:laughing:

But I stand by my statement, just from reading responses from members over the years. The 1st three I'd pull in any type of group head to head test would be open shop men. And if you were honest you would do the same. And for the record I do not think I am in either group.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> Don't make me come to Cali and make your local look bad.


You're welcome anytime! :laughing:

Bring Vaseline. 

Its good for sunburns. :laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> And illegals do this everyday in the resi market.:laughing:.


True nuff.

They break their backs, and don't really live long. Its kind of sad, but to them the money is like a hundred bucks an hour...


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