# Inspectors



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

OK with the new layout I posted this in the wrong location. My bad as the kids say.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

#12 on a 20 is Electrical 101. It sounds like the inspectors REALLY have gotten that bad up there. 

Between this one and the post about the inspector on Holts forum needing documentation on whether it's legal to flip panel guts upside down, I feel for you guys who have to deal with these idiots.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It baffles me why so few actually ask for a Code reference when told something by an inspector.











*Welcome to The Experts portion of the forum,
where we examine those three little words
electricians find so hard to say...... 
"Code reference, please!"*


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

480sparky said:


> It baffles me why so few actually ask for a Code reference when told something by an inspector.
> "[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]


A home owner dealt with the inspector, that was my suggestion and if necessary go above his head.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Bad Electrician said:


> I had a good friend call me today with an issue (NON-ISSUE). He helped a friend to wire an addition, as there were few receptacles needed, he opted for #12 AWG for the new circuit and put it on a 20 amp CB. Not tied to a kitchen, not tied into the dining room.
> 
> The inspector turned them down, said they could not use #12 AWG or 20 amp circuits in a living room. They suggested putting the #12 AWG on a 15 amp CB, inspector said no, not legal.
> 
> I was flabbergasted, have inspector gotten this bad, are counties that hard up for inspectors or am I a totally dummy and missing something here.


You could order a 1 amp circuit breaker to be made and install #12 on it, nothing illegal about it.

If you guys are on the 2014 NEC then an AFCI would be required..


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

#12 and 20A for living room, overkill maybe..... but completely legal. 
#12 and 15A, completely legal as well. 
Are you sure there's not more to the story?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bad Electrician said:


> ........The inspector turned them down, said they could not use #12 AWG or 20 amp circuits in a living room. ......


I'd love to ask this inspector how he would handle voltage drop. :whistling2:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

And we wonder why people don't get permits. You can't fix stupid.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> And we wonder why people don't get permits. You can't fix stupid.



*I* can.

But it ain't cheap!


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

There is an over abundance of stupid going on lately it seems. I just had to get a permit and a service inspection on a 600 amp service that had its incoming burning up. It was required by the POCO.
My problem (what I couldn't wrap my head around) was I was not doing any work or adding anything. As I said it was a POCO incoming problem. Even the inspector was like WTF.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

not all inspectors around here are dumbasses,but we do have some. Just like not all electricians are dumbasses, but there are some.

Please tell me this inspection was in VA or PG.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

manchestersparky said:


> not all inspectors around here are dumbasses,but we do have some. Just like not all electricians are dumbasses, but there are some.
> 
> Please tell me this inspection was in VA or PG.


Maryland and I believe south of Annapolis.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

I was wiring an apartment complex and the first unit failed the inspection.

1st Inspector- "You penetrated a smoke wall(?), you need to run the wire this way". Rewired the way the inspector told me too.

2nd Inspector, 2nd inspection-"Fail, you can not run the wire that way. You need to run the wire this way" Rewired the way the inspector told me too.

3rd Inspector, 3rd inspection- "Fail, you can not run the wire that way. You need to run the wire this way"

Me-" I've had 3 inspections with 3 different inspectors and 3 different ways the wire needs to be run. Since your office is 1 block down the street from my office, would you and your fellow inspectors come to my office to enlighten me, my boss and the crew on the proper way to run the wire"

Inspector 3 declined my offer and I never had any problems for the rest of the project.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Ty Wrapp said:


> I was wiring an apartment complex and the first unit failed the inspection.
> 
> 1st Inspector- "You penetrated a smoke wall(?), you need to run the wire this way". Rewired the way the inspector told me too.
> 
> ...


Been there, done that.

We used to have a city with 2 inspectors, one would require what the other would not pass.

So the solution was to know what 'side' of town you're working on and whose 'side' of town that was, and wire it to that inspector.




Worked well until you got the 'other' inspector because the one you were expecting was on vacation.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Bad Electrician said:


> I had a good friend call me today with an issue (NON-ISSUE). He helped a friend to wire an addition, as there were few receptacles needed, he opted for #12 AWG for the new circuit and put it on a 20 amp CB. Not tied to a kitchen, not tied into the dining room.
> 
> The inspector turned them down, said they could not use #12 AWG or 20 amp circuits in a living room. They suggested putting the #12 AWG on a 15 amp CB, inspector said no, not legal.
> 
> I was flabbergasted, have inspector gotten this bad, are counties that hard up for inspectors or am I a totally dummy and missing something here.


You are not missing anything that I know of. Sometimes there is a confusion when the code says "minimum" and a inspector thinks that that is the "only" option.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Been there, done that.
> 
> We used to have a city with 2 inspectors, one would require what the other would not pass.
> 
> ...


So, did you ever ask for a code reference when the inspection failed?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

manchestersparky said:


> not all inspectors around here are dumbasses,but we do have some. Just like not all electricians are dumbasses, but there are some.
> 
> Please tell me this inspection was in VA or PG.


What are you saying? I know done VERY SHARP inspectors.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> So, did you ever ask for a code reference when the inspection failed?


This was early in my apprenticeship. Asking for Code refs from the inspector was above my pay grade as I did not deal with inspectors.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

480sparky said:


> This was early in my apprenticeship. Asking for Code refs from the inspector was above my pay grade as I did not deal with inspectors.


so now, at this point in your career you, with your vast knowledge will challenge the inspector every time?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm sorry. If I had an inspector try to tell me something like that, I would have just had to punch him right in the mouth, and shove his ass out onto the street. 







That is so bad, it deserves exactly what I said above.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I'm sorry. If I had an inspector try to tell me something like that, I would have just had to punch him right in the mouth, and shove his ass out onto the street.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Easy to say when you are out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Easy to say when you are out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.


We have inspectors. They are a whole lot better than that.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> We have inspectors. They are a whole lot better than that.


Maybe so, but I was questioning the idea that you would kick his ass to the curb.:thumbsup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Ok, I'll use my pipe bender.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> so now, at this point in your career you, with your vast knowledge will challenge the inspector every time?


Yep.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

manchestersparky said:


> not all inspectors around here are dumbasses,but we do have some. Just like not all electricians are dumbasses, but there are some.


True. 

The problem is the term _'inspector'_ ecompasses a wide range of basically _undefined _qualifiers.

At one time, being a certified member, i was under the impression the IAEI was on the quantification road ..... alas, they are only interested in high fiving each other with gin glasses on....


~CS~


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> True.
> 
> The problem is the term _'inspector'_ ecompasses a wide range of basically _undefined _qualifiers.
> 
> ...


How much of that Gin you drinking?:whistling2::laughing:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I'm sorry. If I had an inspector try to tell me something like that, I would have just had to punch him right in the mouth, and shove his ass out onto the street.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> How much of that Gin you drinking?:whistling2::laughing:


Just enough to put up with the local inspectors Black One....

~C:laughing:S~


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

The quality of an inspector is directly related to the jurisdiction they are employed by. Just like the quality of an electrician is directly related to the company they work for.

If the jurisdiction does not pay crap, pay for classes, encourage (require) certifications/licenses what kind of inspector will they attract and employ ?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Point well made Manchester, but we need to add to it that any given state or jurisdiction bears the responsibility to the taxpayer to_ vet _via some benchmark of legislation what they are paying for.

Guess which _'international'_  electrical entity should be swingin' for this....

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BTW, my state had an inspector position open for a good 1/2 yr

lotta semi-retired EC's qualified

none of us wanted it

~CS~


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## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> BTW, my state had an inspector position open for a good 1/2 yr
> 
> lotta semi-retired EC's qualified
> 
> ...


It would be a tough job!

I see all the posts in this thread are from the US, ( I think ), but I live in Canada.

I have had most of my dealings with inspectors in Ontario, as I was more active there years ago. Now in Alberta, I have little to do with the actual inspector, more with the system. I have no major issues with inspectors.

From reading this thread I found myself asking, how do you qualify and maintain your status as an electrical inspector, in jurisdictions in the US? Might be helpful to explain that. :thumbsup:

Sometimes it's the system that's flawed, not the inspector per say. 

Borgi


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## Carultch (May 14, 2013)

480sparky said:


> It baffles me why so few actually ask for a Code reference when told something by an inspector.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome Red Green reference, Mr. 480!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Borgi said:


> > It would be a tough job!
> 
> 
> Being a public servant usually is
> ...


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> BTW, my state had an inspector position open for a good 1/2 yr
> 
> lotta semi-retired EC's qualified
> 
> ...


What are they paying? Benefits?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> What qualifies as EI can be anything from PHD in EE to Boxcar Willy , depending on location............~CS~


 
I'm so thankful that all electrical inspectors in my area _must_ be a fully qualified licensed electrician...be it construction electrician or industrial electrician......with a minimum of five years experience and must pass a rigorous CEC examination. Certainly guarantees that we wont get stupid ideas like the crap in the OP.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

flyboy said:


> What are they paying? Benefits?


I'm unsure Flyboy, but i do know enough contestants around here that applied and then said screw it when THEY found out

~CS~


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Rollie73 said:


> I'm so thankful that all electrical inspectors in my area _must_ be a fully qualified licensed electrician...be it construction electrician or industrial electrician......with a minimum of five years experience and must pass a rigorous CEC examination. Certainly guarantees that we wont get stupid ideas like the crap in the OP.


Now, if only that was a requirement for engineers too....


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## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

Cow said:


> Now, if only that was a requirement for engineers too....


In Alberta, can't speak for other provinces, you must be an experienced licensed electrician to qualify to study and become certified as an Electrical SCO in group A and/or group B. In other words, to become an electrical inspector. That applies to Electrical Engineers as well. They must become certified, it should be easier for them, but as far as I know they must do the training.

In fact in order to pull electrical permits in Alberta, an Electrical Engineer must still write and pass the Master Exam. As far as I know. 

:thumbsup:

Borgi


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The worst of it here are the  HI's . 

Most of them are retired GC's who work for realtors 

They'll walk right past major no-no's for that double tapped breaker:no:

When the HO sues , the _'last qualified entity'_ is often solicited , guess who that is...:whistling2:

Subsequently, i fix what i'm TOLD to & write my OWN  report up. 

Few realtors call me anymore :thumbup:

~CS~


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