# Low voltage wire/ in wall



## zwodubber

rnr electric said:


> I have been doing alot of led lights lately and cannot find an Approved wire for doing this. it should be "in wall" usage and load side of xfmr.
> mostly 16 awg stranded but i would rather use 14 awg instead for length of runs. Any help would be great but it must meet NEC standards


Would the same rules as cat3/5/5e apply? These are used for phones, doorbells etc... What are your wires being used for?


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## rnr electric

zwodubber said:


> Would the same rules as cat3/5/5e apply? These are used for phones, doorbells etc... What are your wires being used for?


 mostly LED's now but have to be stranded and up to 16 guage wire so phone wire (cat5/or6) wouldnt work. but also u/c task ltg. most guys use lampcord but that is not compliant (in wall).


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## rnr electric

i have been using a wire that is 14 awg.i forget the specs on it right now (kinda like speaker wire) but has no voltage rating on it. Not compliant


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## zwodubber

maybe something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Speaker-Wire-Rated-Listed/dp/B002X394MW


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## rnr electric

zwodubber said:


> maybe something like this?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Speaker-Wire-Rated-Listed/dp/B002X394MW


 sorry.. computer is freaking out here and wont open this but ill check it in morning for sure. i have 180 led mini disc (led's) to install at a rough in this week and a "major" lighting distributor (not sure if im allowed to say Who") told me they were advised not to comment on this subject. WTF


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## zwodubber

rnr electric said:


> sorry.. computer is freaking out here and wont open this but ill check it in morning for sure. i have 180 led mini disc (led's) to install at a rough in this week and a "major" lighting distributor (not sure if im allowed to say Who") told me they were advised not to comment on this subject. WTF



Technical Details
14 Awg 2 Conductor 100ft
99.99% Oxygen Free Copper
CL2 Rated In Wall/Ceiling Applications
Flexible No Kink Jacket
UL Listed & Certified Rohs


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## rnr electric

zwodubber said:


> Technical Details
> 14 Awg 2 Conductor 100ft
> 99.99% Oxygen Free Copper
> CL2 Rated In Wall/Ceiling Applications
> Flexible No Kink Jacket
> UL Listed & Certified Rohs


 does it have voltage rating?. might be on to something here:thumbsup:


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## zwodubber

I'll look into this more tomorrow.

UL 13

1 Scope

1.1 These requirements cover 60 - 250°C (140 - 482°F) single- and multiple-conductor power-limited circuit cables for use as fixed wiring within buildings (some are also marked for direct burial) principally for Class 3 and Class 2 circuits as described in Article 725 and other applicable parts of the National Electrical Code (NEC). Cables covered by these requirements are:

a) Types CL3P and CL2P (plenum cables),

b) Types CL3R and CL2R (riser cables),

c) Types CL3 and CL2 (commercial cables for other than plenum, riser, or tray uses),

d) Types CL3X and CL2X (cables for limited use), and

e) Type PLTC (cable for non-plenum and non-riser Class 3 and Class 2 circuits in general and in trays).

1.2 Cables for Class 3 circuits are rated for 300 volts but are not so marked. Cables for Class 2 circuits do not have a voltage rating. See 46.1 (h).


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## zwodubber

OK, this should be the answer, 300V rated CL2. Some cool stuff on this site.


http://advanceddigitalcable.com/communication/industry-equals.html


Commercial Grade	
Tinned Copper Conductors 
UL/ETL listed 
RoHS Compliant	
NEC Articles 800 CMR	
14-12 AWG CL2 
Voltage Rating 300 V 
Temp. Rating 75oC


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## rnr electric

zwodubber said:


> I'll look into this more tomorrow.
> 
> UL 13
> 
> 1 Scope
> 
> 1.1 These requirements cover 60 - 250°C (140 - 482°F) single- and multiple-conductor power-limited circuit cables for use as fixed wiring within buildings (some are also marked for direct burial) principally for Class 3 and Class 2 circuits as described in Article 725 and other applicable parts of the National Electrical Code (NEC). Cables covered by these requirements are:
> 
> a) Types CL3P and CL2P (plenum cables),
> 
> b) Types CL3R and CL2R (riser cables),
> 
> c) Types CL3 and CL2 (commercial cables for other than plenum, riser, or tray uses),
> 
> d) Types CL3X and CL2X (cables for limited use), and
> 
> e) Type PLTC (cable for non-plenum and non-riser Class 3 and Class 2 circuits in general and in trays).
> 
> 1.2 Cables for Class 3 circuits are rated for 300 volts but are not so marked. Cables for Class 2 circuits do not have a voltage rating. See 46.1 (h).


 wire i have been using is cl3p, could not find voltage rating on it anywhere. i have to research this further.


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## rnr electric

I looked at this website, cross referenced it with NEC 725 and it seems to be compliant.. anybody disagree?
Thanks for your help ZWO


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## MDShunk

If it says CL2 or better, you're golden.


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## rnr electric

MDShunk said:


> If it says CL2 or better, you're golden.


 Thats what i thought, we have done several houses with a few LEDs but this one has about 180 in the stairs (all glass). and about an extr 70 or so scattered throughout the house and theater.. obviously nobody wants to see surface wire on these, I would rather find the right solution rather than have the liability. Thanks guys:thumbup:


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## zwodubber

rnr electric said:


> I looked at this website, cross referenced it with NEC 725 and it seems to be compliant.. anybody disagree?
> Thanks for your help ZWO


No problem :thumbsup:


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## macmikeman

We are going to need to see some pictures of that house when its done...


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## Canoga Electric

Hello,
I am in a similar situation right now. We are installing some recessed linear LED lighting in a clients home and we are having a hard time finding low voltage cable that is rated for in wall. Here are the spec's I need:
WIRE:
-CLASS 2 (RESIDENTIAL, INDOOR, IN WALL, USED WITH LED LIGHTING) (UL RATED) 
-LOW VOLTAGE
-600V, 90 DEG. RATED
-12/2 GAUGE

Can you offer any advice?

Thanks,
Eliot


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## Speedskater

Don't the low-voltage garden cables have a CL rating?


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## B W E

Canoga Electric said:


> Hello,
> I am in a similar situation right now. We are installing some recessed linear LED lighting in a clients home and we are having a hard time finding low voltage cable that is rated for in wall. Here are the spec's I need:
> WIRE:
> -CLASS 2 (RESIDENTIAL, INDOOR, IN WALL, USED WITH LED LIGHTING) (UL RATED)
> -LOW VOLTAGE
> -600V, 90 DEG. RATED
> -12/2 GAUGE
> 
> Can you offer any advice?
> 
> Thanks,
> Eliot


Why does it need to be 600V, 90deg?? I always just use CL2 speaker wire. Order it from Monoprice.com before 2pm and you'll have it the next day.


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## B W E

Speedskater said:


> Don't the low-voltage garden cables have a CL rating?


I dont believe so, the insulation is PVC.


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## cguillas

B W E said:


> Why does it need to be 600V, 90deg?? I always just use CL2 speaker wire. Order it from Monoprice.com before 2pm and you'll have it the next day.


I was just about to suggest monoprice. I've never used their stuff for lighting but they're my go-to source for anything home theatre related. Over the years I've probably saved a few thousand.


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## rnr electric

B W E said:


> Why does it need to be 600V, 90deg?? I always just use CL2 speaker wire. Order it from Monoprice.com before 2pm and you'll have it the next day.


I believe that's what I use also, but I'm sure mine is 600v rated. I will check outa roll tomorrow and let you know for sure.
Also mine is plenum,and I think riser rated, kinda like fire alarm wire but grey in color


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## sbrn33

I think this whole "in-wall" rating is a joke. Is it a smoke thing or what.


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## cguillas

sbrn33 said:


> I think this whole "in-wall" rating is a joke. Is it a smoke thing or what.


It's to prevent insulation catching on fire and then distributing that fire from one room to another. Natural burn progress is one thing but insulations not fire rated can actually spread the fire faster.


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## sbrn33

Is this a NEC code or a building code? Is it really enforceable by an electrical inspector?


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## cguillas

In Canada is electrical code.


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## Southeast Power

I used 14/2 FPL cable for my LEDs. I can't see a fire rating problem with it.

http://www.ccixpress.com/cci/Marketing/literature/Cable_Solutions_FireAlarm.pdf


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## pwoody

monoprice speaker cable. problem solved.


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## macmikeman

Run emt to everything..... Who is going to argue with that?


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