# ABC apprentices getting prevailing wage.



## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Prevailing Wage projects pay rates are based on apprenticeship.
If your a J-man - full rate
Registered apprentice in a recognized program your pay is a percentage of the full rate. This depends on what year you are. The rate goes up steady till your at full rate.
Not a signed up apprentice, then you are classified a laborer. Here's the kicker, a laborer makes more per hour then a 1st year just starting out.
Laborer is considered a "profession" as there a some that this is all they have ever done.

Fringes on a P.W. project are given a $$ amount and insurance,vacation time,holiday pay can be taken out of this $$ amount. If you have none of those you must be paid that $$ amount

The prevailing wage rate is not Union Scale. It is closely based on Union Scale . The state sets the prevailing wage rates.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

manchestersparky said:


> Prevailing Wage projects pay rates are based on apprenticeship.
> If your a J-man - full rate
> Registered apprentice in a recognized program your pay is a percentage of the full rate. This depends on what year you are. The rate goes up steady till your at full rate.
> Not a signed up apprentice, then you are classified a laborer. Here's the kicker, a laborer makes more per hour then a 1st year just starting out.
> ...


For the PW jobs we were on, if you were not an officially indentured apprentice with the State, you were a Journeyman, union or not, no "helper" classification.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

jrannis said:


> For the PW jobs we were on, if you were not an officially indentured apprentice with the State, you were a Journeyman, union or not, no "helper" classification.


So College kids hired for summer help to clean up , haul materials, help pull cables, were all paid as Journeymen,or the kid just out of high school ( green as spring grass) who has not signed up for school yet. He's not an apprentice so he was paid as a journeyman?

I'm willing to bet they were classified as Laborers. Laborer is a PW classification. 
Helper is not a classification so i did not mention that term


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> So College kids hired for summer help to clean up , haul materials, help pull cables, were all paid as Journeymen,or the kid just out of high school ( green as spring grass) who has not signed up for school yet. He's not an apprentice so he was paid as a journeyman?
> 
> I'm willing to bet they were classified as Laborers. Laborer is a PW classification.
> Helper is not a classification so i did not mention that term


Electrical contractors cannot hire laborers. Pulling wire, hauling material, cleaning up _is part of an electrical worker's job._ There is an expeditor classification but I'm afraid that payscale lands the employee somewhere between 5th year apprentice and Journeyman, so there's no getting around NOT paying PW to every employee who is not an official indentured apprentice with the State.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Electrical contractors cannot hire laborers.


This is not true. As long as they do not do ANY electrical work,(run conduit, pull wire etc.) Electrical Contractor can have laborers.(dig ditch, clean, etc.)


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

That exactly correct. A laborer is just that a laborer, not a tradesman.
A laborer can help pull wire,sweep floors,pick up trash, fetch materials, dig ditches. They can not be used to install electrical systems.
Basically just physical work. They can help pull in wire but can not terminate it.
The state can not mandate who a company can and can not hire,they can mandate the minimum they can be paid. Like I posted the States Prevailing Wage sheet will list Laborer as a classification.
Prevailing wage projects are state mandated jobs. The term indentured is a union term and does not come into play with Prevailing wage projects. (Unless the contractor happens to be union)
I spent 14 year straight doing PW work


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> That exactly correct. A laborer is just that a laborer, not a tradesman.
> A laborer can help pull wire,


No a laborer cannot even TOUCH wire. 



> sweep floors, pick up trash, fetch materials,


Cannot fetch electrical materials either.



> dig ditches.


Can dig ditches, but cannot dig ditches specifically for the insatllation of electrical work.



> They can not be used to install electrical systems.
> Basically just physical work. They can help pull in wire but can not terminate it.


No they cannot. By this logic, a laborer can unpack a 2 x 4 flourescent layin, and drop it in the ceiling grid and tie wire it and clamp it to the trac. Sorry, but this is part & parcel to the scope of electrical work.



> The state can not mandate who a company can and can not hire,they can mandate the minimum they can be paid. Like I posted the States Prevailing Wage sheet will list Laborer as a classification.
> Prevailing wage projects are state mandated jobs. The term indentured is a union term and does not come into play with Prevailing wage projects. (Unless the contractor happens to be union)


That's not true - the term indentured means the apprentice who is NOT getting the full PW is actually enrolled and participating in a State sanctioned training program, and therefore is allowed to not get the full PW.



> I spent 14 year straight doing PW work


I beat you by 11 years.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> No a laborer cannot even TOUCH wire.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This has been my experience too.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Ok here's the catch with this one-
There are tiny loop hole that allow each states Dept. of Labor. to determine the classification and what they can / can not do. It is referred to as Local Practices.
Here in Maryland it has been like I described. I'll assume seeing how New York has a stronger Union presence they follow the Union rules.

Want to get confused real quick? start researching Davis-Bacon


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

jrannis said:


> For the PW jobs we were on, if you were not an officially indentured apprentice with the State, you were a Journeyman, union or not, no "helper" classification.



Thats the way it worked for me too (in the 80's). I'm sure that has not changed. I remember getting crap as a 2nd yr coz I was making the same as the J-man. Rest assured,I was registerd within a few weeks.

:thumbsup:Also the contractor paid us 'reimbursement' checks for OT. Straight rate/tax free. No one complained about that.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

leland said:


> ...
> :thumbsup:Also the contractor paid us 'reimbursement' checks for OT. Straight rate/tax free. No one complained about that.


I've had UNION contractors present me with that deal.


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## luby104 (Mar 28, 2009)

*organizing*

If an electrician signs on with a local fo a few years.

Does that mean he can never do electrical work agin unless


he works through the union?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

luby104 said:


> If an electrician signs on with a local fo a few years.
> 
> Does that mean he can never do electrical work agin unless
> 
> ...


of course not. It's not a gang. Although some will disagree with that and say it's like a gang, but you can get out of the union anytime you want, unlike gangs.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Well that all depends on which union so why don't you shaddupabouddit OK? :whistling2::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## luby104 (Mar 28, 2009)

No way.


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