# Service call fees & etc.



## FES

Not trying to get into anyones business.....but just looking for some ball park numbers on what you charge for service calls & etc. I have been in business for 5 yrs and have never had so many people asking me this when they call as I have now. I use to get a question or project presented to me then they would ask how much? Now it is the other way around. I know that some electricians local are charging dirt cheap rates. I will say that with a typical service call I will charge $75-85.00/hr. and these will take less than 2 hrs. Anything more I will charge for the job. Just curious....I'm in South Carolina as I know that rates vary across the U.S.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

You are right in the ballpark but I think $75/hr per man, 2hr minimum is the lowest I would go and there are guys actually cheaper than that here in NJ, which blows my mind up. For the record I am not a service based contractor so I am sure there is more to the numbers game if that sector is all you focus on. For instance I know some National Maintenance companies have DNE's set at $60/HR, I've been told they will adjust if you provide details on why the job will cost more but I know nothing beyond that.


----------



## McCaa

I charge $69 to diagnose the problem on residential calls. No time limit for diagnosis. Once I find the problem, I have a flat rate price list is use to price the fix. Customer pre-approves the price before I start and everyone is happy.
If I'm quick, I average $125 per hour for residential service calls.

Commercial work I charge $70 per hour.


----------



## BryanMD

Not to be snippy, but...
with five years of records you should have a real clear idea of what YOUR operating costs have been, what they can be projected to be and what YOU need to be charging (per hour or per day or per transaction etc) in order to make it all worth your while.

Do you have your records in a format you can pluck those numbers from?
If not, then this is where you should be focusing.


----------



## ralph

What you need to be charging for your buisness to opperate and make a proffit is very important , but I know South Carolina guys are working cheap for the most part. Youve got to find that happy number, that will not get crushed by everyone around you, but is also what you need to make.
Mr sparkle has a rate like mine for the most part. 
Good Luck


----------



## FES

BryanMD-
I do know about what it cost...I was more or less trying to make sure what I'm charging reflects the current economic situation. I won't mess with anything if I can't make any $ but then again I don't want to be outrageous.

Thanks guys-


----------



## Grimlock

What is your target profit %? Minimum.


----------



## cdnelectrician

Around here most contractors charge anywhere from 65-80 an hour with a 3 hour minimum.


----------



## caveman

FES said:


> I don't want to be outrageous.


I don't think you have to be worried about being outrageous.
I have yet to run into an electrical contractor who's prices are outrageous.

We're all a bunch of cheap bastards. 

The customer thinks we're all outrageous.


----------



## brian john

caveman said:


> I don't think you have to be worried about being outrageous.
> I have yet to run into an electrical contractor who's prices are outrageous.
> 
> We're all a bunch of cheap bastards.
> 
> The customer thinks we're all outrageous.


speak for yourself, I charge a fair rate for a good job and make a decent living.

4 hour minimum, hourly varies depending on the type of technician that responds,


----------



## BuzzKill

$75/hr, 2 hr minimum sounds good to me, if you are a one man show; I know for the big fellas it will be higher. Like McCaa, I might charge a service call fee to diagnose a problem and then give a price to fix it once it is found. Not a fan of flat rate but I'm still learning the whole "running a business" thing so things might change in the coming year. And to respond to Caveman, I have to agree, not too many EC's strike me as outrageous, except maybe Mr. Sparky, and customers do think we are expensive as all hell.


----------



## Sparky480

I personally cant do it but I have heard of people just calling there competition and asking them. Kind of a ****ty way imo.


----------



## brian john

Sparky480 said:


> I personally cant do it but I have heard of people just calling there competition and asking them. Kind of a ****ty way imo.


Why?


----------



## Sparky480

Because if I call a competitor of mine im going to tell him the truth im not going to lie to him like im a customer. I just think its shaddy.


----------



## BuzzKill

Sparky480 said:


> Because if I call a competitor of mine im going to tell him the truth im not going to lie to him like im a customer. I just think its shaddy.


 It can be used to low ball other guys by hacks and such.


----------



## LAElectrician

*Service Call Pricing*

My company charges $64 for the first 1/2 hour, and then $44 for each additional 1/2 hour for service calls. We also have a company-developed price book which we use for everything that we don't have to troubleshoot.

We tell our customers that if something that already exists is not working, then we will need to troubleshoot the problem at a T&M rate, and that this will usually be completed within an hour. Using these pricing techniques, we close about 85% of all callers on the T&M work. 

If a customer wants new work done, then we can almost always give them an close estimate of the cost of this work over the phone using our price book. If a customer agrees with the price over the phone, we send out a Tech with a 95%+ success of doing the work (and often there is more work added by the customer after the original work is done).


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

Sparky480 said:


> I personally cant do it but I have heard of people just calling there competition and asking them. Kind of a ****ty way imo.


This is Business 101. Believe me people are doing it to you.

Not that it is a great example but look at the whole Amazon/Wal-Mart price war thing, or any major Supermarket chain....they all blatantly state competitors prices in their ads. The good thing is we are in the type of business where you are open to sell yourself on much more than price alone, hopefully.

Oh, and you guys have a great disc golf course up there in Orange County, the name escapes me at the moment but I played it last summer and it was beautiful.


----------



## FES

Well I got a good discussion going!!! Thanks to all the replys.


----------



## BuzzKill

welcome to the forum, this is a great place, quite honestly, despite all the smart allecks.


----------



## 480sparky

Mr. Sparkle said:


> This is Business 101. Believe me people are doing it to you.
> 
> Not that it is a great example but look at the whole Amazon/Wal-Mart price war thing, or any major Supermarket chain....they all blatantly state competitors prices in their ads. The good thing is we are in the type of business where you are open to sell yourself on much more than price alone, hopefully.............


Not only that, but I'll be willing to bet places like Lowe's is always checking the prices at Home Depot, and the nice folks at Home Depot are checking on the prices at Lowe's. WalMart keeps an eye on KMarts' prices, and KMart keeps an eye on WalMarts prices.........

Many many moons ago when I worked retail for a living, that was something we did on a regular basis when things were slow. Get on the phone and call the 'competition' and ask for some prices..... it was 'make work', but it was done all the time.


----------



## Sparky480

Mr. Sparkle said:


> This is Business 101. Believe me people are doing it to you.
> 
> Not that it is a great example but look at the whole Amazon/Wal-Mart price war thing, or any major Supermarket chain....they all blatantly state competitors prices in their ads. The good thing is we are in the type of business where you are open to sell yourself on much more than price alone, hopefully.
> 
> Oh, and you guys have a great disc golf course up there in Orange County, the name escapes me at the moment but I played it last summer and it was beautiful.[/quot
> 
> Was it the "greens"? There are a bunch of them up here to bad they didnt put lights on them to give us some work out of them!


----------



## normel

FES said:


> Not trying to get into anyones business.....but just looking for some ball park numbers on what you charge for service calls & etc. I have been in business for 5 yrs and have never had so many people asking me this when they call as I have now. I use to get a question or project presented to me then they would ask how much? Now it is the other way around. I know that some electricians local are charging dirt cheap rates. I will say that with a typical service call I will charge $75-85.00/hr. and these will take less than 2 hrs. Anything more I will charge for the job. Just curious....I'm in South Carolina as I know that rates vary across the U.S.


Don't know what part of SC you are in, but here in Upstate SC those prices are pretty much in line with other small shops.


----------



## richc

Just keep in mind that overhead and burden are very important factors. That being said, the more trucks you have on the road the less you can charge per hour - all things being equal. If you have one truck on the road then 100% of your overhead must be covered by that one truck (maybe $85/hr). But if you have 10 trucks on the road then each truck must only cover 10% of the overhead. If your overhead didn't go up for each additional man then you could theoretically charge $8.50 per hour times 10 trucks = $85 per hour total. We all know that overhead does go up as you add manpower and vehicles so maybe $45/hr would yield the same profit. You get the point. The math makes all the difference right now with the economy being what it is. Here in Florida we are just simply happy showing ANY profit right now and a break even month is almost the norm. 
I'm not wishing anything bad on anyone but a hurricane sure would be nice for our bottom line.


----------



## DipsyDoodleDandy

*Troubleshooting*

We charge $100 for 1st hour, $50 for 2nd, 40,40,30,20.....So, basically we have an incentive to figure it out quick. If it's all day then, so what, we did about 300 ish which isn't bad. If we don't fix it, we don't charge. I'd say 70%of jobs we fix in 1st hour, 20% 2nd, and 10% is all over the place. It's usually pressing a button, screwing a light bulb in, or resetting a breaker, but...those jobs with hidden j-box's, sub panels, etc...are a bitch. And once you get into something your on a mission to solve it and it's hard to stop til you do. It's worked for us. 

One thing to note I've noticed from a few of you is you do fixed prices on troubleshooting jobs? How the heck can you predict that? To me that means your overcharging some folks for reseting a GFCI or undercharging others. Like a shared risk plan. I always tell people, go to the emergency room with chest pains and ask them for a "fixed price". See what they say. 

Adios


----------



## JohnJ0906

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> One thing to note I've noticed from a few of you is you do fixed prices on troubleshooting jobs? How the heck can you predict that? To me that means your overcharging some folks for reseting a GFCI or undercharging others. Like a shared risk plan. I always tell people, go to the emergency room with chest pains and ask them for a "fixed price". See what they say.
> 
> Adios


The flat rate company I worked for had a set rate for showing up and the 1st 1/2 hour of troubleshooting. 2nd half hour was a lower rate.

It certainly wasn't one price no matter how long it took.


----------



## McCaa

I charge one flat price to diagnose the problem with no time limit. (FOR RESIDENTIAL ONLY) I seldom have a diagnosis take over 45 minutes. I average 15 minutes to find the problem. In the law of averages, some day I am bound to find a really difficult problem that will take me several hours to find, however based on my average time vs. charge, I'm making $125 to $138 per hour so I will just have to suck that up.

Once I find the problem, I charge a flat rate price to to fix it. 

Example 1:
Problem: Bathroom Outlet not working
Issue: GFCI Receptacle is bad
$69 to walk to the receptacle and test it and determine it's not working. 8-10 minutes
Replace bad GFI: $63 7-9 minutes
Total time on Job, including talking to customer, showing them the repair cost, getting signature, replacement of bad unit and collection of payment: 
30 minutes:
Total cost: $132 for 30 minutes of work and a material cost of $11.50 for GFCI receptacle.

Example 2:
multiple outlets out in living room not and vacuum won't work when plugged into them
Determination: Lost Neutral - (tested with my outlet tester and took 90 seconds) PRICE TO DIAGNOSE: $69
Repair cost: $175 - Shut circuit breaker off to determine which receptacles are on that circuit. A quick check of the receptacles and / or panel and the problem is solved due to a loose connection.
Total time including talking to customer, showing them the repair cost, getting signature, repair of bad unit and collection of payment:
1 HOUR
Total cost of job: $244 with no material cost

When you average out your charges per job, it averages up pretty quick.

I charge out $800 to $1000 per day with 100% material markup on average.

It works well for me because I am a one man shop, I'm pretty quick at service work for the most part and my overhead is extremely low, so I do well on average.

Don't get me wrong, I have been on those 4 hour crazy searches through the attic but they are rare.


----------



## Shado

McCaa.....

Did you develop your own flat rate system or modify a commercial one like Aptora?

Im trying to develop my own, but, wondering if going the commercial route might be better in the short haul...say for 3 years or so.


----------



## Grimlock

McCaa, I like your system. I've been thinking about developing a flat rate system for troubleshooting & repair work similar to yours. I was thinking about doing a flat initial charge plus a small hourly fee with a not to exceed amount. The initial charge plus hourly charge for a typical service call would profit more than a typical hourly system, it effectively front loads it allowing you to make a profit on the short calls.

Example: $99 diagnostic fee plus $50 an hour to troubleshoot, not to exceed $300 or $400. It's kind of a hybrid of flat rate and hourly. It would include minor repairs excluding specific items. Once the problem is located a flat rate would be given for the repair.


----------



## DipsyDoodleDandy

*nte*

I"ve been doing the not to exceed thing as well. So I let them know thats the worst case scenario. If I get out of here quick then it could be much less. They usually like that. It's the best of both world's for the customer and not too bad for us.


----------



## McCaa

Shado said:


> McCaa.....
> 
> Did you develop your own flat rate system or modify a commercial one like Aptora?
> 
> Im trying to develop my own, but, wondering if going the commercial route might be better in the short haul...say for 3 years or so.


No, honestly, I'm pretty lazy so I bought the Aptora system. For what they give you, it would take me 6-10 months of 8 hour days to match and it just wasn't worth my time to try and figure it all out.
They have several different systems you can buy. I know someone in Montana that doesn't buy their software. He bought the printed book and then just buys an updated version each year. You can also buy the software which allows you to make adjustments, etc. When I bought their system, I didn't change one thing and I feel l make good money.

The only thing I would recommend is adjusting your diagnostic fee to match your area of the country. In January I'm bumping up to $75 for the diagnostic fee (again, unlimited time to diagnose) and the repair fee is additional.
99% of the time customer's have you make the repair. However, I have had customer's after I told them what was wrong, pay me my $69 diagnostic fee and they said they would repair the problem (usually something easy like a bad switch our outlet type thing) but that is rare. It is kind of nice though to walk in and say, "your switch is bad. $69 please."


----------



## McCaa

Grimlock said:


> McCaa, I like your system. I've been thinking about developing a flat rate system for troubleshooting & repair work similar to yours. I was thinking about doing a flat initial charge plus a small hourly fee with a not to exceed amount. The initial charge plus hourly charge for a typical service call would profit more than a typical hourly system, it effectively front loads it allowing you to make a profit on the short calls.
> 
> Example: $99 diagnostic fee plus $50 an hour to troubleshoot, not to exceed $300 or $400. It's kind of a hybrid of flat rate and hourly. It would include minor repairs excluding specific items. Once the problem is located a flat rate would be given for the repair.


What I have found is that customer's hate complicated. When someone ask what I charge I simply say
"I operate on a flat rate program which is $69 to completely diagnose and find your problem and then once found, I will provide you with options and an exact repair cost to fit your budget". 

Short and sweet and customer's love it. 

My advice is don't chase the dollar. If you always concerned that "oh man, I should have got an extra $8 on that deal", you'll always be distracted. I look up the price in my book and that's what I charge. On average (my guess is in the high 90 percentile) I make great money. There are days that are rare that something takes me longer than I expected or a part cost me a little more than I was expecting but those are rare. I've modified my book so it has four columns of pricing that I can show the customer.
1) Regular Rate
2) Emergency and Holiday Rate (I rarely have these calls)
3) Senior Discounts (I offer a 20% discount on the repair cost (diagnostic fee doesn't change) to 65 an older)
4) Travel Fee (my included travel in my regular rate is 25 miles from the center of our city which covers about 6 to 8 cities within our county. If I go past that, it's $10 for 20 mile increments. Someone who is 45 miles away from our city center, would pay $69 diagnostic plus $30 travel)

If there is every a serious increase in material cost (I define as +/- 12%) my sales people at the supply house automatically call and update me so I can modify those line items and adjust my book. However, that has never happened yet.


----------



## Grimlock

I just checked out the Aptora system, its $2,499.00. They claim that most only need 100 to 200 of their prebuilt flat rates. They offer 1300 in their system which sounds like they've got most types of work covered. I'm just not sure I could justify paying that kind of money for 100 or 200 rates as a new start up. I still expect to invest another $6000 getting my truck ready, purchasing additional material, insurance, office supplies, and the last few tools/equipment I need. I wish I could browse it though to get a real idea of what they are offering, or at least a list of the titles.


----------



## McCaa

Grimlock said:


> I just checked out the Aptora system, its $2,499.00. They claim that most only need 100 to 200 of their prebuilt flat rates. They offer 1300 in their system which sounds like they've got most types of work covered. I'm just not sure I could justify paying that kind of money for 100 or 200 rates as a new start up. I still expect to invest another $6000 getting my truck ready, purchasing additional material, insurance, office supplies, and the last few tools/equipment I need. I wish I could browse it though to get a real idea of what they are offering, or at least a list of the titles.


They do offer a preprinted book for $999. It is an investment for sure but if your struggling to come up with the right prices (which is a major key to being successful) this is an easy way to take care of that and move onto other important things. Also, they give you hundreds and hundreds of prices. You may only personally use 200 but they give you much more. The software has even more items and services also. Its not just a couple hundred prices for that price.

Best of luck for sure!


----------



## Grimlock

McCaa, what do you do when the problem is really simple, like a loose neutral on the neutral bus or even simpler a bad lamp? Is there a flat rate for really simple stuff? I guess you couldn't charge extra to reset a breaker or tell them a lamp is out.


----------



## Absolutetruthz

For repair calls I charge 70/hr with a 1.5 hr minimum. I will usually only charge 70 if its a tripped gfi, that I find quickly or just reset a breaker. Everything else is a flat rate price. 65- 85/hr is the going rate in my area, but everyone is different on how they apply this to service calls.


----------



## McCaa

Grimlock said:


> McCaa, what do you do when the problem is really simple, like a loose neutral on the neutral bus or even simpler a bad lamp? Is there a flat rate for really simple stuff? I guess you couldn't charge extra to reset a breaker or tell them a lamp is out.


I follow the book. If its a tripped breaker and or tripped GFCI receptacle, the diagnostic fees takes care of those. I don't charge anything additional. There are line items for replacing bad lamps and line items for changing batteries in smoke detectors which I did for the first time the other day. Replace a 9V battery in a smoke. $15 + the $69 diagnostic = $84. 
Keep in mind that there are some people that just don't want to mess with even looking and when that's your attitude, someone has to get paid to do it. Also, if the breaker is tripped, I spend time by going in and checking loads and running some more diagnostics to try and figure out why vs. just resetting and leaving so there is value in that too.

A loose or open neutral typically isn't an easy fix. You could open up 10 boxes before you find it. I happen to have equipment to shorten that time frame up but I also charge an extra fee if I have to pull out special equipment (just like a plumber who might use a camera).

The book as upgrade listings as well, such as if a ceiling is above 12' but less than 16', over 16' but less than 20', etc.

Its pretty complete. I follow the book almost to a "T" and I always do well.

I'm do have a soft heart though for older people. About 2 weeks ago I did a call where the woman was 98 years old, had no family in town and you could tell she was lonely. Replaced a bad outlet she had, stayed and talked to her for about 30 minutes and I didn't charge her anything. That's one part about being self employed that I really like.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

McCaa said:


> I'm do have a soft heart though for older people. About 2 weeks ago I did a call where the woman was 98 years old, had no family in town and you could tell she was lonely. Replaced a bad outlet she had, stayed and talked to her for about 30 minutes and I didn't charge her anything. That's one part about being self employed that I really like.


I feel the same, I recently put a few fan light kits on existing fans in a friends grandmothers house. All she wanted was lights on the fans so she could see better, they were all directly fed with no switchlegs, I snaked switchlegs down the wall on all three and did not charge her a dime for it. There is no reason she should have to find the pull chain in the middle of a dark room.


----------



## DipsyDoodleDandy

*Old Lady's*

Old nice people are weak link. Dont know how many of them I did for free. They probably get on the phone with their friends laughing on how they pulled the weak little old lady thing again and got free service! 1/2 of them could be loaded and you would never know it either. Oh well..


----------



## subelect

I had to replace a broken bulb in a bathroom socket and reset a GFCI in the kitchen for an old lady. I did not charge her for 10 minutes work. 
A couple of weeks later, I was opening up the shop after lunch and her 2 gorilla-like grandsons stopped and thanked me. I had no idea who they were when they jumped out of their pickup and came up to me. I was pretty sure that I was a dead-man until they shook my hand.
You might get taken advantage of occasionally, but I believe that everything will eventually balance out in the end. Sooner or later, you will get what is coming to you; good or bad.
Rick


----------



## oldman

free service calls are easier to swallow for the one man shop...not so easy when you are paying someone's salary to do the work...just a thought....


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

oldman said:


> free service calls are easier to swallow for the one man shop...not so easy when you are paying someone's salary to do the work...just a thought....


Agreed.


----------



## Lantern Electric

*Bump*

I think this is a nice hot button...

I know we all have differing opinions about who and what we are... The key is to always stick with your "OWN" Ethos and always strive to grow! The Electrician that hasn't learned anything is one sitting at home. I don't keep guys that aren't willing to admit they can always learn, I live by this and try to learn how I can better serve our customers along with making good money.

I'm amazed at how little some of the other Contractors mentioned they charge in my area as I find that my Customers are astounded by how reasonable my Invoices are!!!! I Charge a hell of a lot more than LAEle... he is less than 2miles from my location... or at least I believe him to be the LAElectrician near the 91 in Long Beach?

You have to know what the Market will bear in your "Area of Service" or you won't have all too successful of a competitive business! I have a fair closing rate as I close nearly %100 that call me...not that that means all that much as most calls amount to $250.00 on avg. We do couple rewires a week and close out 50-70Service calls a week.


----------



## LAElectrician

Lantern Electric said:


> I think this is a nice hot button...
> 
> I Charge a hell of a lot more than LAEle... he is less than 2miles from my location... or at least I believe him to be the LAElectrician near the 91 in Long Beach?
> .


Actually, my main office is in Tujunga, CA, which is about 5 miles north of Glendale.


----------



## 24 big guy

Asking what you should charge is scary. One question "WHAT'S YOUR OVERHEAD FOR YOUR COMPANY". 

Thats what matters are you covering your overhead for stagnant time and work time as well as making a profit.

If any of you havent read flyboys manual on flat rate and figuring your overhead do so "NOW"

Im in Ma I charge $150-250, for service calls + materials if not simple device ie switch or receptacle, the rate fluctuates based on customer provided information on problem. 

All of your examples for most part are under an hr. Reset breaker replace broken or defective devices and breakers, change fixtures and lamps, all relatively simple projects.

So why do I charge that much, cause for every hr or less job I lose an extra hr of work time. How? Drive to the job 1/2hr fix problem 1/2hr↓, then the close of the job 1/2hr, then the drive or stagnant time between jobs where and how are you producing income off of down or dead time ????

Dont forget the time you spent stocking purchasing organizing stock for your van so when you show up you have the proper materials. 

Now if problem is a short circuit that requiers a new circuit or a new jumper to repair circuit then I charge my initial diagnostic and add for reflective cost. Any 15-20A circuit on 1st flr within 50' $250 2nd flr $400-500. If I find problem witin 10 min then I incorporate most of fee into the actual job and cut fee down to $50-75, if running new circuits.

We all now how long it takes to do the job and get from A-B (the labor) put value to your man hrs + materials + profit&overhead= charge to customer.

Also think of this when you worked for your last company making $20+ an hr that company had to pay 45+ with benefits and taxes etc. So if your on your own and want ro make $50 an hr profit your hrly need to be around $100-$125▲.

Sorry for being so long. Just food for thought


----------

