# Average rough in time



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

How long should a two story 5 bdrm, 2 bath, kit, DR, FR,LR home take to wire(rough) to code w/ ceiling fans in each rm and 2 zone AC and heat. Is two and a half days good timing?


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*58*

I'd guess about 58 hrs roughly


----------



## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

I don't do "too code" homes. But, i would say you are close based on what you are including. A home of that size, I am guessing, over 3000 ft/sq maybe approaching 4000 ft/sq, Custom, 2 guys 1.5 weeks maybe more.

To code, i'd say your in the ball park. Maybe a bit low.


----------



## ecelectric (Mar 27, 2009)

How many guys


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Last one we did 2 guys and a helper roughed it in 3 days.


----------



## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Shooting from the hip is not a good way to develop a bid.

How about some consideration for the work?


Convenience receptacles take X time. X time x # of CR.
Kitchen receptacles - same thing.
SG switches - same thing.
DG switches - same thing
TG switches - same thing
Each Home run should have a multiplier.
Same with appliances.
Don't forget to add panel(s) and service.
LV - Doorbells, CATV, phone, any upsells?
How many guys, and how good are they?

Good program in an Excel program, you could beat the "hipshooter" with previous empirical knowledge applied.

Figure out what the actual cost is to you, what to mark it up, and submit. We haven't even heard how many square feet this is? That will help determine service size.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

If you don't care how it looks then you are about right.


----------



## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Rockyd said:


> Shooting from the hip is not a good way to develop a bid.
> 
> How about some consideration for the work?
> 
> ...



I would asume he knows how to BID the job. He was asking how long to ROUGH. Not how much to charge.


----------



## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

Doc...Before I moved I did a center hall 3000sf,5br,3bath in Setauket to code 2 HVAC zones,fans in each room, no high hats. It was around 45hrs to rough.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

to code means all five bedrooms on one circuit


----------



## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

mdfriday said:


> I would asume he knows how to BID the job. He was asking *how long to ROUGH*. Not how much to charge.


Wouldn't that normally mean a time unit assigned to each item? Or to be more exact a time to each assembly, so that all items can be multiplied out against those predetermined standard units?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

ecelectric said:


> How many guys


Just my wife and i


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

ecelectric said:


> How many guys





Shockdoc said:


> Just my wife and i


So then 2? :laughing:

Just kidding. Don't come here and murder me. :001_huh:


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

cobra50 said:


> Doc...Before I moved I did a center hall 3000sf,5br,3bath in Setauket to code 2 HVAC zones,fans in each room, no high hats. It was around 45hrs to rough.


You got out, congradulations. I can't wait for the day I leave LI for good. It took 1000 ' of 14/2 , 350' of 14/3 and 500' of 12/2. I drilled all angles on first floor ceiling between points, no squared runs, including HRs. It's pretty much hack work but very effeicient, looped outlets, no waste of romex whatsoever. This is how i roll when low prices come into play, I'll still make money. I used all ceiling fixtures to branch out and the smoke circuit to feed all my 2nd fl lighting. the old fashion way, it saves money.


----------



## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> You got out, congradulations. I can't wait for the day I leave LI for good. It took 1000 ' of 14/2 , 350' of 14/3 and 500' of 12/2. I drilled all angles on first floor ceiling between points, no squared runs, including HRs. It's pretty much hack work but very effeicient, looped outlets, no waste of romex whatsoever. This is how i roll when low prices come into play, I'll still make money. I used all ceiling fixtures to branch out and the smoke circuit to feed all my 2nd fl lighting. the old fashion way, it saves money.


Looks good on a budget.

2nd pic. From the bottom, couldn't you have just gone over the joist instead of drill to save some time?


----------



## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

How long did it take?


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> How long should a two story 5 bdrm, 2 bath, kit, DR, FR,LR home take to wire(rough) to code w/ ceiling fans in each rm and 2 zone AC and heat. Is two and a half days good timing?


40 man hrs, no way unless you want it to be a "HACK JOB". Twice that


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> So then 2? :laughing:
> 
> Just kidding. Don't come here and murder me. :001_huh:


Don't worry.. he only takes out mail boxes.. :laughing:


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Two days, two guys, who do new resi regularly.


----------



## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

If your not including the service, I think 2 1/2 to 3 days is do-able if your moving fast, bare bones, down and dirty, no cans or anything like that.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Ima Hack said:


> If your not including the service, I think 2 1/2 to 3 days is do-able if your moving fast, bare bones, down and dirty, no cans or anything like that.


It can be done in 2 days. 2 1/2 days tops. If you're wearing your tools and not pre-twisting your wires.


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> How long should a two story 5 bdrm, 2 bath, kit, DR, FR,LR home take to wire(rough) to code w/ ceiling fans in each rm and 2 zone AC and heat. Is two and a half days good timing?


If you take every device no matter what it is, separate circuit , plugs light, phones, cable and count it as a unit of 1, then I allow 18 min per unit for rough in only. Service is not included in the calculation
of course for bidding, every device, circuit etc has different pricing, but labour wise, this has averaged out quite well for scheduling. 
BTW this is with loomex and running on the square. Sorry but there is no way I could wire a house on the angle. And besides the inspectors here would fail us on workmanship


----------



## mr frog (Jun 16, 2009)

it's hard for me to say without knowing the square footage and the layout of the house. if it was a cookie cutter type house, and it was at least your 3rd one in a row, i'd say one day with 3 people (that's including the panel, the main service would be done on trim out). if it was a new orleans rewire, i'd say about a week. if i were union, i'd say about a month. :whistling2: 
but to answer your question, yes, for a 2 story 5 bedroom with just 2 people, 2 and a half days is ROLLIN. especially for drillin all them holes. i'd have used a lot more wire too, i'm sure. it can be done... even without being a hack. good job


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 6, 2011)

I'd say 3 guys 5 days give or take a week depending on depth of customization of house


----------



## jpimentel84 (Feb 9, 2009)

Wow uhmm yea quality down the drain. Just my opinion.


----------



## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Okay, armchair estimater from Alaska, and another player of "name that price" here (within realistic times) have some numbers -

1. Down and dirty, fight for every thing you can get, - and you better be good, for this hardcore shot. 3 10 hr days, 60 hours for the two of you - not likely achievable (You bought the job).

2. Service included lots of smart hustle, from both of you - 4 days, 72 hours. Possible, but not likely.

3. Reality says that this is a fast custom, and your experienced? Both of you 4.5 to 5 days, 85 hours. Includes all boxes ready for devices on return for switching and plugging, panel made up with a cardboard cover. This is my number to make money, and be safe with positive cash flow. :thumbsup:

Edit - That's with no upsells, bare bone NEC, lots of room for "change orders".

Edit - Hey Miller - they said custom, not cussed at. Average good shot cookie cutter models here in the north (1750 sq. ft. 3 bd, 2 bath 1/4 acre) 2 guys a day and a half to two days, ready for trim, including panel and service.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

mr frog said:


> but to answer your question, yes, for a 2 story 5 bedroom with just 2 people, 2 and a half days is ROLLIN. especially for drillin all them holes.


The drill don't stop, until the breaker trips at the temp pedestal.

Smoke comin from the heels, and, no twists in the romex.

You got to pull off 1000 foot spools, none of this 250 on spinner crap.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

jpimentel84 said:


> Wow uhmm yea quality down the drain. Just my opinion.


Not true, it would look like somebody ironed the romex.

Makeup would look like it was done by an elderly swiss watch-maker.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Depending on how many bells and whistles I would say comfortably with two guys about a 112 man hours to roughin. And thats if its normal stick framing.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

captkirk said:


> Depending on how many bells and whistles I would say comfortably with two guys about a 112 man hours to roughin. And thats if its normal stick framing.


Can I work for you?


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

im assusming there are going to be cans, changes lunch, coffee break, thats a week and a couple of days. if they go faster than that Im gonna see alot of bad work like I saw in the 12 year old home i was in today....almost every boxe I opened had wires that were cut and showing copper from taking the sheath off.. boxes looked like someone used the back of their hammer to get the wires in, and all the ciructs I worked on were heavy very heavy..


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Two weeks. Two guys. I'm guessing 4000 square feet. Are we counting service? If you are bidding stuff like this at one week you are crazy.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

captkirk said:


> im assusming there are going to be cans, changes lunch, coffee break, thats a week and a couple of days. if they go faster than that Im gonna see alot of bad work like I saw in the 12 year old home i was in today....almost every boxe I opened had wires that were cut and showing copper from taking the sheath off.. boxes looked like someone used the back of their hammer to get the wires in, and all the ciructs I worked on were heavy very heavy..


Take a look at post #28. I like people who set easily obtainable goals. My boss would figure 25 hours and tell us 15 then bitch when it took 35.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

well 400o square feet...? thats a different story...My house has 5 bedrooms and is barely 2000 square feet.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Take a look at post #28. I like people who set easily obtainable goals. My boss would figure 25 hours and tell us 15 then bitch when it took 35.


 thats working like an animal..


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Two weeks. Two guys. I'm guessing 4000 square feet. Are we counting service? If you are bidding stuff like this at one week you are crazy.


Huh? Am I missing a big part of the scenario here? Service included. 2 guys less than 3 days. With coffee breaks.

1 guy starts service while other marks out, boxes and drills. When service is done service guy pulls home runs, then wires garage, then pulls low voltage. Then makes up panel. By the time he's done with that house should be damn near roped and he drops back and does the make up and nail plating.


----------



## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Two weeks. Two guys. I'm guessing 4000 square feet. Are we counting service? If you are bidding stuff like this at one week you are crazy.


I figured 3750 Square feet, two car garage. Oh just for fun, and to see the world without rose colored glasses - my bid is a union shot - mean, lean, and clean. Course it doesn't matter which side the fence you're on...It's a matter of how good is the help? So the coffee break was considered too.:whistling2::thumbup:


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I see aloooooooooooot of bad resi from the building boom of the late 90's to the early 2000's. You go into these McMansion and find the funniest things....


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Huh? Am I missing a big part of the scenario here? Service included. 2 guys less than 3 days. With coffee breaks.
> 
> 1 guy starts service while other marks out, boxes and drills. When service is done service guy pulls home runs, then wires garage, then pulls low voltage. Then makes up panel. By the time he's done with that house should be damn near roped and he drops back and does the make up and nail plating.


 Yea I like to give guys specifice tasks during the constuction too. one guy drills another pulls HR (always first), another jumps on branch circuits, one guy cut in....it always goes smooth like that. If something is wrong you usually know who is responsible so you dont get the finger pointing.. Ive worked for guys that nail the print up and its every man for themself... You have to give people time to work.....this is probably why why i dont get a lot of new resi.....


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> Huh? Am I missing a big part of the scenario here? Service included. 2 guys less than 3 days. With coffee breaks.
> 
> 1 guy starts service while other marks out, boxes and drills. When service is done service guy pulls home runs, then wires garage, then pulls low voltage. Then makes up panel. By the time he's done with that house should be damn near roped and he drops back and does the make up and nail plating.


You start a business and bid like that and see what happens. There are no plans usually. There are changes. There are a lot of things to deal with that change the one week rough in to two weeks. Honestly I wouldn't even bid a 4K at two weeks total with service for rough.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

some guys wire resi like their wiring dog houses. its funny..


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

captkirk said:


> some guys wire resi like their wiring dog houses. its funny..


I can wire a dog house in 15 minutes. Service included.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

lol nice...make sure you gfci the automatic feeder..


----------



## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> You start a business and bid like that and see what happens. There are no plans usually. There are changes. There are a lot of things to deal with that change the one week rough in to two weeks. Honestly I wouldn't even bid a 4K at two weeks total with service for rough.


I do plan the work, not micro, but enough to where it saves a lot of time.

All HR start points are marked on print ( I make one if I have to burn a couple of 24 x 36's) for ease of figuring pulling HR runs.

One person boxes, one person drills. 

One does HV, one does LV.

For pulling lights and HR's - One person in the overhead, one on deck to handle any problems on deck.

Both toss up service and sub panels. Soon as the two man part is over, one makes the panel(s) one does make up. When the panels are done, drop back and do the make ups, and nail plates.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I see aloooooooooooot of bad resi from the building boom of the late 90's to the early 2000's. You go into these McMansion and find the funniest things....


 
Blue boxes?


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> Blue boxes?


YES ODDLY enough...and those nasty fiberglass ones.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

doubleoh7 said:


> Blue boxes?


People dog blue boxes, but that's all I ever used, EXCEPT the front-nailers in shear-walls. They were gray, oh, the four-gang switch boxes were gray plastic too.

Used those bake-lite like ones in the double rock walls of town-houses.


----------



## Casketmaker (Mar 10, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> If you don't care how it looks then you are about right.


Hahahha yeh


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

the last big reno I did I used all metal boxes.. Plasitic are lowwer end imo.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

captkirk said:


> Plasitic are lowwer end imo.


The shop I was at used plastic 18cu everywhere.

They bid at a couple dollars a sqft.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

It's all cut throat techniques, 1) 20 amp circuit to 1st bath GFI , then tail down to next bath. I had a total of 12 circuits including 2) 115 v gas fired air handlers, micro and Dw. I'd rather do simple code than large mcmansions these days. I can't see how some guys out here make any money wiring new construction with the low prices i compete with. I've seen some of the others work where they run up and over, run past light boxes to switch and then run back to light, pull all the homeruns up and over and then back down. What gets me is all the walls are open , i have 1) 15 amp circuit powering the LR outlets, foyer and outside light, 1st fl bath light,hall , and utility rm light. The customer wants to block off the 1 st fl in the future and turn it into an apt. . He declined my offer as an extra to run two #12 for the LR receptacles that will become a kitchen. That i'll never understand, there's cheap but then there's stupid cheap .


----------



## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

I would say it would take me 45 to 50 hours to do everything including garage low volt and the ding dong but not phone/cable. Depending on how the house was constructed +- 10 hours.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> How long should a two story 5 bdrm, 2 bath, kit, DR, FR,LR home take to wire(rough) to code w/ ceiling fans in each rm and 2 zone AC and heat. Is two and a half days good timing?


I'd say if you can do it in 2.5 days you're way ahead of everyone else.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

We up in the far north have to deal with things like this. There is no way we can do that size house in 2.5 days.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> I see aloooooooooooot of bad resi from the building boom of the late 90's to the early 2000's. You go into these McMansion and find the funniest things....


And the reason for that is..... lowest bidder.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

What do you consider "ruff in" is it wires in the boxes and in the panel or do you consider panel landed and wires made up and ready to device out .


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> or do you consider panel landed and wires made up and ready to device out .



Yes .


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> It's all cut throat techniques, 1) 20 amp circuit to 1st bath GFI , then tail down to next bath. I had a total of 12 circuits including 2) 115 v gas fired air handlers, micro and Dw. I'd rather do simple code than large mcmansions these days. I can't see how some guys out here make any money wiring new construction with the low prices i compete with. I've seen some of the others work where they run up and over, run past light boxes to switch and then run back to light, pull all the homeruns up and over and then back down. What gets me is all the walls are open , i have 1) 15 amp circuit powering the LR outlets, foyer and outside light, 1st fl bath light,hall , and utility rm light. The customer wants to block off the 1 st fl in the future and turn it into an apt. . He declined my offer as an extra to run two #12 for the LR receptacles that will become a kitchen. That i'll never understand, there's cheap but then there's stupid cheap .


When doing these McMansions we would set up about 3-5 spinners in the upstair bedroom above the panel and all home runs would go up into the attic then down the wall. Even the ones for the 1st floor. It's a lot faster to pull them this way than going as the crow flies one at a time.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

This would take more than 2 1/2 days:laughing:


----------

