# what voltage kills the most..



## nolabama

what voltage kills the most people and what voltage kills the most electricians 
just wondering if it was the same and really what voltage is it 
my guess is 120 for people and 277 for electricians but i dont know


----------



## 480sparky

Silly me. All these years I believed it was _amperage_ that kills. :jester:

Then you tell us we're not people, either!


----------



## william1978

I have always heard 120v.


----------



## BryanMD

for the same reason that YOUR bathroom and the roads within 5 miles of YOUR home are the most dangerous...


----------



## nolabama

BryanMD said:


> for the same reason that YOUR bathroom and the roads within 5 miles of YOUR home are the most dangerous...


????
i know its the amperage that actually kills
but it has to be applied at a voltage level 
this was asked to me in an interveiw yesterday and i did not know the answer


----------



## user4818

120 volts is indeed the voltage that "kills" the most people, in that it's the one that most people come into contact with and get killed. However, as 480sparky correctly pointed out, it's the current that kills.


----------



## 480sparky

nolabama said:


> ????
> i know its the amperage that actually kills
> but it has to be applied at a voltage level
> this was asked to me in an interveiw yesterday and i did not know the answer


 
I would guess 120 as it is the most common voltage the general population is exposed to. Very few housewifes have 277 volt coffee makers, or 480 volt espresso machines.


----------



## nolabama

480sparky said:


> I would guess 120 as it is the most common voltage the general population is exposed to. Very few housewifes have 277 volt coffee makers, or 480 volt espresso machines.


same reasoning from me but ... where is zog when ya need him


----------



## steelersman

480sparky said:


> I would guess 120 as it is the most common voltage the general population is exposed to. Very few housewifes have 277 volt coffee makers, or 480 volt espresso machines.


"housewives", not "housewifes"


----------



## steelersman

nolabama said:


> same reasoning from me but ... where is zog when ya need him


I don't need a Favre lover. That's extremely gay. :thumbsup:


----------



## nolabama

steelersman said:


> I don't need a Favre lover. That's extremely gay. :thumbsup:


???????


----------



## william1978

steelersman said:


> I don't need a Favre lover. That's extremely gay. :thumbsup:


 :laughing:


----------



## steelersman

nolabama said:


> ???????


Zog loves Brett Favre. I had a little argument with him about it before. He basically worships the guy now that he plays for Zog's fav. team even though he used to hate Favre when he played for the arch rival. Zog's a flip-flopper just like Favre.


----------



## william1978

steelersman said:


> Zog loves Brett Favre. I had a little argument with him about it before. He basically worships the guy now that he plays for Zog's fav. team even though he used to hate Favre when he played for the arch rival. Zog's a flip-flopper just like Favre.


 You don't forget a thing do ya?


----------



## nolabama

i dont give a shake of piss who favre plays for


----------



## steelersman

william1978 said:


> You don't forget a thing do ya?


Honestly I forget alot. I hate it. For example I can hardly ever remember funny parts from a movie I just F-ing watched unless I watch it a hundred times, but I can remember weird stuff though. Alot of it seems like meaningless and obscure stuff, but interesting at times.


----------



## BryanMD

steelersman said:


> Zog loves Brett Favre.


my ex-wife does as well

she even has one of those life size vinyl poster like thing
I don't ask what she does with it.


----------



## steelersman

nolabama said:


> i dont give a shake of piss who favre plays for



Neither do I, he still is a crybaby.


----------



## steelersman

BryanMD said:


> my ex-wife does as well
> 
> she even has one of those life size vinyl poster like thing
> I don't ask what she does with it.



Oh yeah a "Fathead". Ooh man you don't think she squirts it do ya? :laughing:


----------



## randas

You silly kids and your 480. Come up north and play with some 600 :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky

randas said:


> You silly kids and your 480. Come up north and play with some 600 :laughing:


 
Who is 600? :laughing:


----------



## Frasbee

I still don't f*cking get this amperage/voltage thing.

Does voltage even matter at all?!


----------



## 480sparky

Frasbee said:


> I still don't f*cking get this amperage/voltage thing.
> 
> Does voltage even matter at all?!


 
Not when it comes to killing people, no. It's the amperage that kills. You could have a million volts go through your body and if the amperage is low enough, you would never know it.

This is why GFCI's are set to trip at 4-6 mA.


----------



## Frasbee

480sparky said:


> Not when it comes to killing people, no. It's the amperage that kills. You could have a million volts go through your body and if the amperage is low enough, you would never know it.
> 
> This is why GFCI's are set to trip at 4-6 mA.


Go through you to ground?

What about the resistance your body possesses?


----------



## 480sparky

Frasbee said:


> ...........What about the resistance your body possesses?


That will determine how much amps are allowed through your body. The lower the resistance, the more amps that will flow.


----------



## jbfan

randas said:


> You silly kids and your 480. Come up north and play with some 600 :laughing:


Been there, done that.
I used to work in a cotton mill where everything but the lights were 600 volts.


----------



## steelersman

The other thing to understand is that for whatever the given resistance your body happens to be at the time of the shock, the higher the voltage, then the more amps you will take as well. That's why higher voltages are more dangerous even though it's the current that does the "killing".


----------



## Frasbee

480sparky said:


> That will determine how much amps are allowed through your body. The lower the resistance, the more amps that will flow.


But wouldn't a higher resistance also increase the chance of burning internal organs?


----------



## 480sparky

Frasbee said:


> But wouldn't a higher resistance also increase the chance of burning internal organs?


No, a lower resistance would. If you have a high enough resistance, the current flow will be reduced, and if you reduce it enough, you'll never feel it.

It's Ohms law.... draw it out, punch in some numbers and do some calcs.


----------



## Frasbee

So why is it that using say, 16 awg wire on a 30 amp breaker would cause it to overheat?

Sorry, we're finally getting to theory in class but this teacher doesn't seem to know anything outside what's written word-for-word, in the book.


----------



## crazymurph

480sparky said:


> I would guess 120 as it is the most common voltage the general population is exposed to. Very few housewifes have 277 volt coffee makers, or 480 volt espresso machines.


 
My wife has a 480 volt device she keeps in the bedroom


----------



## steelersman

I'd say because it has been determined that it's not large enough to safely carry that amount of current for a sustained amount of time without overheating.


----------



## 480sparky

Frasbee said:


> So why is it that using say, 16 awg wire on a 30 amp breaker would cause it to overheat?
> 
> Sorry, we're finally getting to theory in class but this teacher doesn't seem to know anything outside what's written word-for-word, in the book.


 
It's not the higher resistance of a 16-ga wire that causes it to overheat... it's the fact that 30 amps being forced through it by the load on the circuit is what causes it. Hook a 16-ga wire to a 30-a breaker, turn it on and sit back to watch with total amazement when......... nothing will happen.


----------



## 480sparky

crazymurph said:


> My wife has a 480 volt device she keeps in the bedroom


 
It uses 320 AA batteries? :laughing:


----------



## steelersman

Damn if it uses that many batteries, imagine how big it must be?


----------



## 480sparky

steelersman said:


> Damn if it uses that many batteries, imagine how big it must be?


 
I'd rather not, really. :no:


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

randas said:


> You silly kids and your 480. Come up north and play with some 600 :laughing:


ya it will put some hair on your chests.....speaking of which, time to go shave mine again.........:laughing:


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

crazymurph said:


> My wife has a 480 volt device she keeps in the bedroom


did she say where she got it perhaps?:whistling2:


----------



## slow cooker

Frasbee said:


> I still don't f*cking get this amperage/voltage thing.
> 
> Does voltage even matter at all?!


That is like asking does a wedding ring mean anything. brief answer sometimes yes. firstly we look at the overall effect or outcome, this is best described as power. the formula states that p=VI, since V is an incumbent part of the power formula it must be taken into consideration. We know that the human body and its nervous system react to micro amps, therefore we require minimal current to interact with the natural body functions these include the heart and brain. This then begs the question what must we have for an external stimulii to be able to interefere with our own natural electrical system. This answer is a circuit, what then stops a circuit becoming a circuit? this answer is resistance, resistance can be Air between two live wires or that of the human body. 

This is where Voltage comes into it, we as electricians will surely die if any wire we touch that has a route to ground through us and sufficient voltage to push the circuit through us.

Voltage is the driving force or pressure to make the circuit, consider it rhe most critical element in the equation.


----------



## slow cooker

crazymurph said:


> My wife has a 480 volt device she keeps in the bedroom


Sheees!!!!, Do I know your or your wife? whats your address and phone number again? :tt2: I guess you work long hours like me? I tend to work a half hour less than most good looking busy sparkies.:laughing: By the way its the fistatron thats 480v and the ring puncher thats 120v what ever you do man don't confuse them


----------



## drsparky

randas said:


> You silly kids and your 480. Come up north and play with some 600 :laughing:


I thought you hosers used 575.


----------



## RIVETER

*What voltage kills most*

Sometimes by the time I get my thoughts into writing it looks different than what I thought. If you were wondering if more people are killed by lower voltages than higher, I would say YES. It is the lower voltages that we are most involved with. However, more attention has to be paid to the neutrals. Though they are at GROUND potential,they are deadly. In a properly grounded electrical system there is no potential from the neutral to ground but if you become in series with the neutral by BREAKING a joint, you are the load and therefore the DIFFERENCE OF POTENTIAL.

QUOTE; Electricity is absolutely useless without a difference of potential.

RIVETER


----------



## steelersman

Do you rivet a lot of things, hence the name?


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

I found his post to be riveting!


----------



## 480sparky

BCSparkyGirl said:


> I found his post to be riveting!


----------



## Mike_586

drsparky said:


> I thought you hosers used 575.


347/600 and the odd place might have 277/480.


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

480sparky said:


>


thats neat, where didja dig that up from?


----------



## Toronto Sparky

13.8 KV will take you out cleanly.

I'm told that the 600 vdc that we use for the subway here really bites hard too.

I've got 575 vac many times over the years.. Just messed up my heart for a bit..


----------



## Roger

BCSparkyGirl said:


> thats neat, where didja dig that up from?


Do a google search for Rosie the Riveter.

Roger


----------



## 480sparky

Roger said:


> Do a google search for Rosie the Riveter.
> 
> Roger


 
Here, let me Google that for you.


----------



## cdnelectrician

A welder at work got hospitalized after he got between the ground electrode and the work he was welding. 50 volts at 200 amps. He is lucky to be alive i'm told.


----------



## sparky105

347 is like being hit in the head with a 2 x 4 it will take a few of your brain cells.


----------



## cdnelectrician

Yea, 347 hurts like hell.


----------



## sparky105

Here is a lesson for the young and dumb
When entering a ceiling always go up the ladder looking up and have a good light and hard hat
I stepped into a ceiling with a ball cap on and there was an old 347 volt light feed bx hang down. took both wires off the top of my nut and broke the last step on the ladder (the voltage over stimulates muscle movement That's what holds you or throws you) That was 20 years ago and I still have a feeling of falling when i close my eyes some nights 
I woke up on the floor with a throbbing head and a sore ass. It could have been way worse if I had grabbed the t bar and it was grounded anywhere I hate to think about that senerio


----------



## user4818

Toronto Sparky said:


> I've got 575 vac many times over the years.. Just messed up my heart for a bit..





sparky105 said:


> 347 is like being hit in the head with a 2 x 4 it will take a few of your brain cells.





cdnelectrician said:


> Yea, 347 hurts like hell.





sparky105 said:


> Here is a lesson for the young and dumb
> When entering a ceiling always go up the ladder looking up and have a good light and hard hat
> I stepped into a ceiling with a ball cap on and there was an old 347 volt light feed bx hang down. took both wires off the top of my nut and broke the last step on the ladder (the voltage over stimulates muscle movement That's what holds you or throws you) That was 20 years ago and I still have a feeling of falling when i close my eyes some nights
> I woke up on the floor with a throbbing head and a sore ass. It could have been way worse if I had grabbed the t bar and it was grounded anywhere I hate to think about that senerio


Have any of you guys ever seen or know someone who has experienced an arc flash incident on a 600 volt system?


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

Peter D said:


> Have any of you guys ever seen or know someone who has experienced an arc flash incident on a 600 volt system?


we just had a kid hurt bad up here....12k went phase to phase, or something like that, Im hearing second hand....not on my site, but up with our hydro crew. My dad says he had 3rd degree burns to the top 20% of his body....poor guy, in a med induced coma........he waswearing a fire suit, probably the only reason he wasn't killed. But he's in for a rough recovery.

Be careful out there boys!


----------



## Toronto Sparky

Vaporized a couple of screw drivers on 600v 400a splitters. And blew up a watt/hr meter once (not my fault)
It was prewired and someone wired the pot. transformer backwards. 
Wiring a 600-120v tranny backwards tends to make stuff go poof.
Never really had a bad flash. Seen the aftermath a few times. 
Worst was a flopping about #12 ground wire in a 600v 2000a switchgear, they had to replace the whole switch gear. And the guy spent months recovering..


----------



## sparky105

got a service call on a 200 amp buss plug for a chiller
the hacks at the plant found a blown fuse so they replaced it with out testing 
hit it again and blew the buss plug door off the rack
the a and b phases fused together in the buss system and it was a 2 day rebuild verticle buss from floor to floor hot moulting steel and copper ran down 6 or so feet glad i wasn't on that switch handle that clown will still be deaf I think:blink: 

and the feeder cable needed to be redone because it was pulled tight to the connections and burnt to a crisp 
THe fuces went off we think becuase they were having problems with the o.l.'s and by passed them to keep production up but by the time we left it was a new intall thank you hacks 16 hrs straight and 15 hrs dbl time :no:


----------



## MechanicalDVR

We should do a test on the most lethal voltage, wonder if we could get the two Aussies to volunteer for the test?


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

stick one wire up their nose, and the other up their ass?


----------



## slow cooker

I'm Hurt, :drink::drink::drink:thats better, piss off and stop being so cruel. I have feelings you know. you leave me no option but to leave the chat room for a while and play with my huge penis....'Boy that was fun'... anybody want to hear about it?


----------



## shakey pete

nolabama said:


> what voltage kills the most people and what voltage kills the most electricians
> just wondering if it was the same and really what voltage is it
> my guess is 120 for people and 277 for electricians but i dont know


 i 'm not sure but i think it's electrical voltage


----------



## MechanicalDVR

shakey pete said:


> i 'm not sure but i think it's electrical voltage


Think of that all on your own?


----------



## RIVETER

*Killer voltages*

I agree with most of the responses. However, BryanMD, when I found out that most auto accidents happen within 25 miles of your house...I moved.


----------



## BryanMD

RIVETER said:


> I agree with most of the responses. However, BryanMD, when I found out that most auto accidents happen within 25 miles of your house...I moved.


you've probably seen how my daughter drives


----------



## st0mps

i just listen to this audio clip released from the 911 operator i dont know if its old or new but its so sad what happen all 3 people diedolice say a mother, father and 15-year-old son were electrocuted while putting up a ham radio antenna in their Palm Bay home. the impact sent 13,000 volts of electricity through the pole the three were holding. 

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhd3O69D6TN1t40mVt


----------

