# Favorite brands



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

As much as the industry uses drives and soft starts, there are a huge amount of simple starters installed daily. If it was your decision alone, what brand would you buy? 
We can have two categories, IEC and NEMA.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

AB 509's.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

I’m getting fond of the Furnas/Siemens Innova.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

460 Delta said:


> I’m getting fond of the Furnas/Siemens Innova.


Cant complain about Siemens. 

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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Furnas did their level best to copy the A-B starters back when they released it. Originally they called it the "Innova 45", because to get around the A-B patent for a Vertical Lift Gravity Dropout (VLGD) design, they angled theirs at 45 degrees off vertical, hence Innova 45. I was with Furnas at the time, most of us were embarrassed about it (copying someone else and tweaking it just enough to avoid a lawsuit)...


Furnas did innovate when they released the ESP100 OL relay however. Other people had SSOLs, but Furnas were the first to have one that was self powered, as opposed to needing another separate power input, which could render the SSOL non-functional if it lost power and not trip. Now almost everyone has adopted that concept.


To me, all IEC contactors from the major players are virtually the same. Their need for interchangeability in the type of crowded control panels that they build makes it so that anything different or better gets suppressed by the market. To me it comes down to which local supplier has the best inventory.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Wadsworth, Zinsco, FPE, Trumbull, Challenger, General Switch, Frank Adams, and Colt are some of my favorites.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Who here likes AB 100-C? I can say I've seen these welded closed more than any other.

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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

MTW said:


> Wadsworth, Zinsco, FPE, Trumbull, Challenger, General Switch, Frank Adams, and Colt are some of my favorites.


Where's your love for Bulldog Electric and EC&M?:sad:


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Peewee0413 said:


> Who here likes AB 100-C? I can say I've seen these welded closed more than any other.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk



I like them.

But, we do oversize them. I've used a boatload of them for lighting contactors.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Cow said:


> AB 509's.


Same here; these are pretty much bullet-proof. I've seen them take pretty horrible abuse and keep on working. Like the size 2 (25 HP max) that has been starting and stopping a 40 HP conveyer motor 3-5 times a day for at least 30 years.........

I also like their little brothers, the 609s. These are the manual version of the 509s. I just installed 2 of them today. 

I ran 2 - 15 amp 208 3Ø circuits to a pair of 2 HP condensate pumps that were factory mounted on a tank and had 2 pole float switches as controllers. I mounted the 609s on a nearby post and used them for the lockable disconnecting means and motor O/L. 

Yes. a bit more $$$ than the IEC ones but this plant likes NEMA stuff. 

I used to have an intense dislike for anything IEC but have warmed up to it a bit over the years. I will use it for small motors but always oversize the contactors. I stock several motor protection circuit breakers (disconnecting means, short-circuit and ground-fault protection and motor O/L in one unit) on my van. I like the Allen Bradley 140M-C series and 100-K contractors. 

For small single phase motors without integral O/Ls, I like the Square D 2510 starters. They come in single and 2 pole versions and have 1 heater. They can be purchased with an enclosure or mounted on a single switch industrial cover. I also like their 3 pole (no O/L) switches, I use these often for the disconnecting means for small 3Ø motors.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Big fan of Woodford Reserve, but tonight its Four Roses.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

JRaef said:


> Furnas did their level best to copy the A-B starters back when they released it. Originally they called it the "Innova 45", because to get around the A-B patent for a Vertical Lift Gravity Dropout (VLGD) design, they angled theirs at 45 degrees off vertical, hence Innova 45. I was with Furnas at the time, most of us were embarrassed about it (copying someone else and tweaking it just enough to avoid a lawsuit)
> 
> 
> How can AB patent VLGD? Sq.D used it on the old 8500 series [I think that's the right number] starters which ran concurrent with the AB 709's. If there was a patent issue, I think they would have slugged it out first with a big player like Sq D and not a small player like Furnas.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

460 Delta said:


> How can AB patent VLGD? Sq.D used it on the old 8500 series [I think that's the right number] starters which ran concurrent with the AB 709's. If there was a patent issue, I think they would have slugged it out first with a big player like Sq D and not a small player like Furnas.


 The Square D 8502/8536 are different, they use what's called a "Bell Crank" mechanism, basically a lever that is _assisted _by gravity, but the armature operates horizontally, so it needs springs to make it all work. What A-B patented (originally on the 709 and re-issued on the 509) was a single component armature system, a coil + gravity; no springs, no levers, no other moving parts.


PS:
Or maybe you are thinking of the old 8903 lighting contactors? Those were vertically operated, but they also still used a bell crank lever system because of their making it capable of up to 20 poles.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

I have these in my RPC at home, the genesis of these I don’t know, these things just find me. The armature and contact yoke lift in a purely vertical manner. There is a strap on the bottom with a pivot to keep the armature in a vertical fashion and in alignment.


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