# Multifamily Service Upgrade



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Since they aren't services, but sub panels, I don't see a problem with the 60 amp feeder. But #3? You can't load the panel beyond 80%, I'd use 4-4-4-6. As far as the pantry, it's doable as long as you have the width and depth. Maybe I'm out in left field.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

Backstay would you qualify them as a subpanel too?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> This guy has all fuses in his multifamily and switched insurance companies and now they want him to upgrade to circuit breakers. He has 3 fuse panels in the basement. 2 that feed the upstairs units. 1 that feeds the basement unit. The upstairs units have their own fuse panels as well. Its kinda weird. The wires that go up to those panels are only 2 wire (2 hots 1 bare wire). So i think i have to run new a new 4 wire right? Its kinda like the bare wire is acting like a ground/neutral. I think to correct all this I am going to have to .


the old cable you describing is the SE cable that is a common run of mill cable and you will end up running new 4 conductor cable .,, see below on more details.,,



Chevys10zr2 said:


> 1. Put 2 60 amp main disconnect in the basement per code 230.79(D) not (C) cuz its not a one family dwelling so it doesn't have to be 100 amp minimum. These units are 1 bed, gas dryer and gas range..


You can use 60 amp main but just keep in your mind what is the load demand caluations you are hitting on that and IMO you may need to boost it up to 100 amp depending on how far the calauation called for. ( gas heat or what ? ) 



Chevys10zr2 said:


> 2. I'm not sure if they even make 3-3-3-5 aluminum ser cable but that's what I would use. The least damaging way of running a new wire to those panels would be to run pipes on the siding into the soffit. Then run the ser cable from the basement, through the pipe, into the attic then down to panels. I cant find anything against this. Only the bend radius. Have any of you guys done this? Or could i simply run a seperate ground wire and use the bare wire in the existing ser cable as the neutral? .


The thing what you going to do is either route but let me post my way so your way may different than what I will come up.,

get three gang meter socket and put two outdoor main breaker disconnect switch below the meter and run the SER cable up into the soffit due you will have more than 6 or 8 feet of SER cable run inside the building ( that you have to be aware of distance of unfused conductors inside the building ) and third meter the SE cable can run directally from the meter to basement panel for house panel so that one of few ways it can meet the code. 

I would grab 2-2-2-4 or 4-4-4-6 alum SER cable depending on the main OCPD sizeing but 3-3-3-5 Al is kinda little oddball on SER cable sizeing which not many place will stock that size. 



Chevys10zr2 said:


> 3. The existing fuse panels in the upstairs units are in small pantry closets in the kitchen. I read on this site that i should ask inspector if it would be fine to use that location to "repair' the fuse box otherwise I would have to relocate the panel along with all the circuits somewhere else.
> 
> Thats it!! The other fuse box in the basement will be a simple swap.


 Ask them nicely but I have a feeling that will be moved some way.,,


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> Backstay would you qualify them as a subpanel too?


They are sub panels. You must run 4 wires to them and not bond them.


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