# Commercial lighting



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Sure, why not. 

That said, I've heard there are some local amendments that do not allow 15A circuits at all.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Many job specs will require 20a circuits as well.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Many job specs will require 20a circuits as well.


I was thinking the same thing. I just get a very strong feeling there are no prints or specs involved here. :whistling2:


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## cowboyznindianz (Mar 4, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I just get a very strong feeling there are no prints or specs involved here. :whistling2:


Are you intimating that he is possibly "RATS" worker gone awry doing side work in the company truck?:laughing::no:


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> Sure, why not.
> 
> That said, I've heard there are some local amendments that do not allow 15A circuits at all.


Sure why not is what I was thinking. 
Is there anything in the nec that says you can't?


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I just get a very strong feeling there are no prints or specs involved here. :whistling2:


The plans did not ask for 20 amp lighting circuits. 
I thought 15 amp lighting circuits would be plenty.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

You can use 15 amp circuits if you want to barring job specs or local ordinances. Derating issue?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

cowboyznindianz said:


> Are you intimating that he is possibly "RATS" worker gone awry doing side work in the company truck?:laughing::no:


Where TF are you getting that from?? :001_huh:
No, I am NOT insinuating that.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

J-wire said:


> The plans did not ask for 20 amp lighting circuits.
> I thought 15 amp lighting circuits would be plenty.


Not sure why you would do that. Material costs are about the same. Other electricians would talk smack about your work if they saw 14 gauge and 15 amp breakers in a commercial application. Right or wrong that's the skinny.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

J-wire said:


> Is there anything in the nec that says you can't?


I don't know. Is there?

Can you please fill in your profile. Thanks.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> Not sure why you would do that. Material costs are about the same. Other electricians would talk smack about your work if they saw 14 gauge and 15 amp breakers in a commercial application. Right or wrong that's the skinny.


Material cost? 14-2 mc is definitely less expensive than 12-2. As long as it doesn't exceed the circuit capacity why would there be a problem?


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

J-wire said:


> Material cost? 14-2 mc is definitely less expensive than 12-2. As long as it doesn't exceed the circuit capacity why would there be a problem?


Next electrician will tell the customer that you installed inferior wiring and that they would never do that. There you go. Like it or lump it.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> Next electrician will tell the customer that you installed inferior wiring and that they would never do that. There you go. Like it or lump it.


Lol. Those are the guys that didn't get the job. As long as I'm meeting code. 
Inferior wiring? The customer will know that the lights always turned on every time he hit the switch, never tripped a breaker, and was signed off by the local inspector. 
Yes it could have been done in 12-2. But why? It's going to work the same. And they are recessed and pendant lights in a solid ceiling, no room for expanding the circuit.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

You already have your answers so why ask here? If you think everyone is gonna jump on your bandwagon and give you an atta boy keep looking.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> You already have your answers so why ask here? If you think everyone is gonna jump on your bandwagon and give you an atta boy keep looking.


Wasn't looking for an atta boy. Just looking for positive and negative feedback. Since I'm new to commercial work. Thanks for your feedback.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

J-wire said:


> Material cost? 14-2 mc is definitely less expensive than 12-2. As long as it doesn't exceed the circuit capacity why would there be a problem?


Breaker costs are the same. The retail price difference between 14/2 and 12/3 MC is $32 a thousand. In my neck of the woods, 14/2 MC actually costs more because of S/D.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

There isn't anything wrong with trying to save a buck or two. One question though is how much would you pay for a good name in your area. There is more gossip at supple houses than a hair salon.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

Theriot said:


> There isn't anything wrong with trying to save a buck or two. One question though is how much would you pay for a good name in your area. There is more gossip at supple houses than a hair salon.


True to that.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I see more 15a than 20a circuits.

It's common around here to have 15a running #12 to lighting. That being said, I have never seen 20a 277 or 20a 347 breakers running lighting. It always seems to be 15a.

That's a lot of lights at 347 btw.

If it were me, it would entirely depend on how many lights I need to put in. If I need to put 1 more in a row and my 15a wouldn't cut it, I'd put a 20a. That's about it.

Customers seem to be going crazy for 20a everything now. I usually have to remind them that breakers are also meant to protect equipment, and the lower the number, the better. (though I can't prove that).


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

As for wire sizing, since lighting load is a constant load, I like to have #12 or bigger. It's constant load!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kaboler said:


> As for wire sizing, since lighting load is a constant load, I like to have #12 or bigger. It's constant load!


So it is a constant load, how is 12 better?


Don't you think the amount of load has some part of wire sizing?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Oh no a 15 amp circuit in commercial! :laughing:

Don't waste customers money on unnecessary stuff.



nitro71 said:


> Other electricians would talk smack about your work if they saw 14 gauge and 15 amp breakers in a commercial application.


I don't know about the rest of you but I don't particularly care what idiots say about me.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Oh no a 15 amp circuit in commercial! :laughing:
> 
> Don't waste customers money on unnecessary stuff.
> 
> ...


You should see what they say when your not looking..:whistling2:.:laughing:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Oh no a 15 amp circuit in commercial! :laughing:
> 
> Don't waste customers money on unnecessary stuff.
> 
> ...


Customer to different electrician: "I would like to add another couple of lights over here"

New electrician: "That last electrician installed a 15 amp circuit. We don't do that in commercial work. He should have installed a 20 amp circuit. We can run a new circuit from the panel for you."


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> Customer to different electrician: "I would like to add another couple of lights over here"
> 
> New electrician: "That last electrician installed a 15 amp circuit. We don't do that in commercial work. He should have installed a 20 amp circuit. We can run a new circuit from the panel for you."


Haha. Good one. You know there is a limit of lights on a 20 amp circuit also. So you could run into that problem regardless.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

BBQ said:


> So it is a constant load, how is 12 better?
> 
> Don't you think the amount of load has some part of wire sizing?


Yes, and electricians are always more concerned about the minimum, and THEN they cut corners.

As for your questions, pointless. My answers, you already know.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*commercial*

I have no clue what the code is but I've always ran 12 or above in commercial bldgs for some reason


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## di11igaf (Jan 1, 2012)

Cletis said:


> I have no clue what the code is but I've always ran 12 or above in commercial bldgs for some reason


I'd say 80% or above of the commercial jobs I've been on/done have spec'd #12(I've even seen #10) as minimum circuit conductor size, then it becomes habit. That doesnt mean its always necessary, but usually it is. The biggest reason for #14 on my van is controls.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kaboler said:


> Yes, and electricians are always more concerned about the minimum, and THEN they cut corners.
> 
> As for your questions, pointless. My answers, you already know.


Any chance you could try again in English instead of gibberish?


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Any chance you could try again in English instead of gibberish?


Well, 2 posts above yours here, they run #12 minimum, so why are you all horny for my posts?


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

Where i live. It's always 12/2 in our commercial jobs. However I don't see why running 14/2 would be so bad. As long as you don't overload either one, what's the harm?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

With LED lighting and 277 volt circuits, it makes quite a bit of sense to use #14. I don't do much commercial work but I'd gladly use it if I had a choice, barring specs or other job requirements. 

I've run #14 in commercial for fire alarm panels, exit/emergency lighting circuits, or whenever I feel like it. :thumbup:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Peter D said:


> With LED lighting and 277 volt circuits, it makes quite a bit of sense to use #14. I don't do much commercial work but I'd gladly use it if I had a choice, barring specs or other job requirements.
> 
> I've run #14 in commercial for fire alarm panels, exit/emergency lighting circuits, or whenever I feel like it. :thumbup:


:thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> :thumbup:


:blink:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Peter D said:


> :blink:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Customer to different electrician: "I would like to add another couple of lights over here"
> 
> New electrician: "That last electrician installed a 15 amp circuit. We don't do that in commercial work. He should have installed a 20 amp circuit. We can run a new circuit from the panel for you."


Kinda a goofy comment. If I put in a 20 I am loading that sucker to 16 amps every time I can.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Rochsolid said:


> Where i live. It's always 12/2 in our commercial jobs. However I don't see why running 14/2 would be so bad. As long as you don't overload either one, what's the harm?


Romex?


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Romex?


No, ac90:thumbsup:


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