# German tools over rated?



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

I've bought a few of the German tools that are all the rage here and I have to say that for the most part they're massively over rated. I have a pair of Knipex pliers and they're nice don't get me wrong but up to the quality of a comparable Klein? A couple of days ago I had to cut a thicker sheetrock screw and it was much harder than it should have been. Then I tried using my Klein ***** and it was much easier. So I went and dug in my bag for my old Klein pliers with the dark blue handles (the cheap ones) and they cut much easier than the Knipex pliers that have seen far less usage. I don't get the hype. I'm glad that I got these for pretty cheap from Lowes. The $40 that they normally cost is much better spent on a pair of hard cutting kliens imo.

Also Wera drivers are softer than Klein. I don't see how anyone could use those professionally. I'm totally unimpressed by those. They work great for a week, thats it. 

Wiha seems to live up to they hype so far but not every driver fits screws as well as Klein screwdrivers. I'm having good luck with the proturn 3k series though. 

I know that its cool to hate on Klein but they are the benchmark in electrician's tools for good reason.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> I've bought a few of the German tools that are all the rage here and I have to say that for the most part they're massively over rated. I have a pair of Knipex pliers and they're nice don't get me wrong but up to the quality of a comparable Klein? A couple of days ago I had to cut a thicker sheetrock screw and it was much harder than it should have been. Then I tried using my Klein ***** and it was much easier. So I went and dug in my bag for my old Klein pliers with the dark blue handles (the cheap ones) and they cut much easier than the Knipex pliers that have seen far less usage. *I don't get the hype.* I'm glad that I got these for pretty cheap from Lowes. The $40 that they normally cost is much better spent on a pair of hard cutting kliens imo.
> 
> Also Wera drivers are softer than Klein. I don't see how anyone could use those professionally. I'm totally unimpressed by those. They work great for a week, thats it.
> 
> ...


its advertising, when it comes to linesmans, Klein hands down IMO, they are like the Greenlee of knock out sets and benders.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Brace yourself 

Fanboys are coming


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> Brace yourself
> 
> Fanboys are coming


Oh, I'm sure of that.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Shut up *****


----------



## cotes17 (Dec 19, 2011)

i agree, i wouldnt change my Klein diagonals or linesman for Knipex. From what i see, Klein is still build better and i prefer them. As for screwdrivers, i just got a set of Wiha drivers and i do like them but i see what your saying with fitting screws. I find the same thing that my Klein screwdrivers fit screws better


----------



## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

I've got the knipex linesmen and they cut just as good as my old kleins. I also have the Wera Drivers and IMO are way better then my Klein drivers, no comparison for me


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Shut up *****


Great post jethro


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Yes German is definitely better.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

German stuff rocks...but with hand tools I stay with klein. Nothing else feels right.


----------



## SEREMan2000 (Aug 29, 2011)

I use to be Klein brand loyal up until about 6 years ago. They started going downhill with their screwdrivers. I buy Wiha insulated drivers for live gear work. Craftsman Pro for normal everyday drivers. Klein / Knipex for pliers.


----------



## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I bought a pair of Knipex linemans a couple of weeks ago and have to say I am really impressed.


----------



## yamatitan (Sep 4, 2010)

Imo knipex linemans vs Klein is a tie I like both equally and havent found anything that one could do better than the other yet. Havent noticed the same thing as the op and I cut drywalls with both all the time. 

Now drivers I disagree completely not sure what wera you tried but mine grab way better and I beat them with my hammer all the time and have yet to round a edge like on my kleins after a week of general use.


----------



## Mate (Sep 5, 2009)

Fu(k klein with their made in china tools. Wera, wiha, knipex, nws are way ahead of klein imo. But if you like replacing tools every 2 weeks, thats your choice.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Mate said:


> Fu(k klein with their made in china tools. Wera, wiha, knipex, nws are way ahead of klein imo. But if you like replacing tools every 2 weeks, thats your choice.


 If you're replacing tools every two weeks it's probably because you're stupid and buying fancy kraut tools isn't going to help that. I'd probably just get a new line of work


----------



## Mate (Sep 5, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> If you're replacing tools every two weeks it's probably because you're stupid and buying fancy kraut tools isn't going to help that. I'd probably just get a new line of work


hehe ok i'll think about it!


----------



## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

I like wera drivers, knipex cobras and klein cutters. I would hazard a guess most of the klein haters have had horrible experiences with certain tools (drivers for me). Our reasons for being vocal are altruistic, we don't want others to have the same experience we did.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

yamatitan said:


> Imo knipex linemans vs Klein is a tie I like both equally and havent found anything that one could do better than the other yet. Havent noticed the same thing as the op and I cut drywalls with both all the time.
> 
> Now drivers I disagree completely not sure what wera you tried but mine grab way better and I beat them with my hammer all the time and have yet to round a edge like on my kleins after a week of general use.


It could be from hitting the pliers with a hammer that one time. Still thats nothing I haven't done to my cheaper klein pliers on many occasions without issue.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> Brace yourself
> 
> Fanboys are coming


What a dumb statement. 

Of course it's personal preference, but the OP's story and opinions are by far in the minority. I don't agree with them one bit. This is coming from experience, not fanboyism. 
And if you can read, you can see I am not alone in this opinion.


----------



## Kryptes (Aug 6, 2013)

I have a set of german tools onsite and a klein set in the truck for my 2am break down calls. Both are great, both are a thousand times better then my greenlee set at home. I do buy all german drill bits and step bits though, best I have found so far.


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Brace yourself
> 
> Fanboys are coming





ponyboy said:


> Great post jethro





ponyboy said:


> If you're replacing tools every two weeks it's probably because you're stupid and buying fancy kraut tools isn't going to help that. I'd probably just get a new line of work





ponyboy said:


> I can read, and what I've concluded is you've got a hard on for me. Almost every thread I post in you come in attacking me. You better stop and find a new hobby. I think I'm going to tell Juan that you are obsessed with me and won't stop harassing me. Prick


You sound angry..........like a Neuter.........:whistling2:


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

stuiec said:


> You sound angry..........like a Neuter.........:whistling2:


You shut your man pleaser. I'm glad you quoted me though since the closet mod deleted it.


----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

KGN742003 said:


> I like wera drivers, knipex cobras and klein cutters. I would hazard a guess most of the klein haters have had horrible experiences with certain tools (drivers for me). Our reasons for being vocal are altruistic, we don't want others to have the same experience we did.


Some guys using Kleins as Chisels or cutting through a hot and neutral at once are the only reasons to replace certain tools. Would you use your Wera stuff as Chisels? Probably not, most guys take extra good care of them. I do the same with my Kleins and have the same outcome, good quality.


----------



## Kryptes (Aug 6, 2013)

Typical forum....a simple thread turns into 90% unnecessary bs.


----------



## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

Aegis said:


> Some guys using Kleins as Chisels or cutting through a hot and neutral at once are the only reasons to replace certain tools. Would you use your Wera stuff as Chisels? Probably not, most guys take extra good care of them. I do the same with my Kleins and have the same outcome, good quality.


I have the wera chisel drivers and beat the **** out of them. I've had klein screwdrivers break just turning screws.


----------



## Mate (Sep 5, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> You shut your man pleaser. I'm glad you quoted me though since the closet mod deleted it.


Ok so you like klein tools, no need to insult the whole world for that. You just don't know what you are missing.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> Of course it's personal preference, but the OP's story and opinions are by far in the minority.


I don't know about that.



> This is coming from experience, not fanboyism.


same here



> And if you can read, you can see I am not alone in this opinion.


once again, same here. 



KGN742003 said:


> I have the wera chisel drivers and beat the **** out of them. I've had klein screwdrivers break just turning screws.


I've never broken a klein screwdriver. 11in1 tips yes but a screwdriver? They round off since the the metal is a little soft. They're by no means brittle like an 11in1 tip which won't round off but will chip or crack. 

I've never twisted a Klein cabinet tip like I did with the wera cabinet tip that I owned for three weeks. 

Again, wiha lives up to the reputation. I've been using it as a chisel and the tip is still fine. Hell, I was chipping concrete with the cabinet tip at one point.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Mate said:


> Ok so you like klein tools, no need to insult the whole world for that. You just don't know what you are missing.


I don't care about Klein or wera or whatever the latest trendy flavor of the month is. I could do my job just as well with craftsmen and toolshop brand stuff. Laser etched tips and ergonomic grips won't make you a better mechanic


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

You can definitely work more efficiently with good tools or the right tools in general.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> You can definitely work more efficiently with good tools or the right tools in general.


Half of that statement is true. Yes you can work more efficiently with the correct tool. But don't try and tell me that a wera straight screwdriver loosens or tightens screws faster than a Klein or any other brand


----------



## Mate (Sep 5, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> Laser etched tips and ergonomic grips won't make you a better mechanic


You are right about that but fancy ergonomic tool make life so much easier. Go cut some 3-10 steel bx with cheap pliers and you'll see.


----------



## Kryptes (Aug 6, 2013)

Mate said:


> You are right about that but fancy ergonomic tool make life so much easier. Go cut some 3-10 steel bx with cheap pliers and you'll see.


Don't even use expensive pliers on it, hand cable cutters are made for that....proper tool for the job!


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> Half of that statement is true. Yes you can work more efficiently with the correct tool. But don't try and tell me that a wera straight screwdriver loosens or tightens screws faster than a Klein or any other brand


I mostly agree with you, but when I'm swapping out a device live whichever screwdriver grabs the screw head better does help me work safer and more efficiently. Its the reason that for years the only #2 phillips that I would use is a klein 10in1. They don't round off but they're brittle which I don't find to be an issue with a phillips.

Also if I can beat on the same flat head that I use to tighten screws thats one less tool that I need to carry.



Kryptes said:


> Don't even use expensive pliers on it, hand cable cutters are made for that....proper tool for the job!



Thats one of the many uses of my M12 hackzall.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Mate said:


> Go cut some 3-10 steel bx with cheap pliers and you'll see.


Guess I'll never see then because that's probably never going to happen


----------



## Mate (Sep 5, 2009)

Kryptes said:


> Don't even use expensive pliers on it, hand cable cutters are made for that....proper tool for the job!


I use my linemans for almost everything. It's the only tool I always have on me.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> I don't know about that. same here once again, same here. I've never broken a klein screwdriver. 11in1 tips yes but a screwdriver? They round off since the the metal is a little soft. They're by no means brittle like an 11in1 tip which won't round off but will chip or crack. I've never twisted a Klein cabinet tip like I did with the wera cabinet tip that I owned for three weeks. Again, wiha lives up to the reputation. I've been using it as a chisel and the tip is still fine. Hell, I was chipping concrete with the cabinet tip at one point.


Ditto on breaking Klein screwdrivers man. My square shank 1/4" screwdrivers are beasts and have been beaten on like a red headed step child, and never broke one. My 1/8" cabinet is also rugged as hell. Problem is the tips get burrs on them or wear from simple crap like pounding out KOs, so they don't bite screws anymore. I have a pile of Wera drivers and though I love how the laser cut tips bite screws, I just hate how they don't make them the same sized tips as Klein in the straight blades. Kleins are made for American device screws. There is just too much slop with the Wera kits I bought, and can never seem to find the right size. 

As for pliers, I am real tempted to try Knipex, but I've been really happy with my Kleins, and the Knipex with the crimped and New England nose seem outrageously expensive, and I don't want pliers without the crimpers (we use Ideal ground crimps, so you don't need 4 point Buchanan tool).


----------



## MWayne (Nov 8, 2010)

Kryptes said:


> I have a set of german tools onsite and a klein set in the truck for my 2am break down calls. Both are great, both are a thousand times better then my greenlee set at home. I do buy all german drill bits and step bits though, best I have found so far.


Do you have a link for the step bits? Thanks.


----------



## Kryptes (Aug 6, 2013)

MWayne said:


> Do you have a link for the step bits? Thanks.


http://www.ruko.de/englisch/products/metal/core drills/core_drills_en.htm


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I don't care what company makes what. I will screw up any screwdriver in just a few months with abuse and misuse. Same goes for side cutters which make for an excellent hammer whenever your real hammer is located elsewhere. Plus what the hell is sidecutters without a few good burn marks from cutting into live romex good for anyway? 

German tools tremble when my name is mentioned.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I don't care what company makes what. I will screw up any screwdriver in just a few months with abuse and misuse. Same goes for side cutters which make for an excellent hammer whenever your real hammer is located elsewhere. Plus what the hell is sidecutters without a few good burn marks from cutting into live romex good for anyway? German tools tremble when my name is mentioned.


Macmikeman, breaking anvils since the 1970s. :laughing:


----------



## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

All my tools got ripped off along with my f-350 that being said......I have been going without the yellow and black tools due to lack of quality in past years . Also switched cordless tools . Our tools take a beating and protect our lives from harm . Tool designers go from shop to shop just like us work whores so as far as im conserned trying new tools has opened my eyes from the constant norm . Some are just the chit other dont last a week but I am now seeing after tring new brands that the yellow and black better watch out cause there is better brands than yellow and black . Anyway use what you like I like what I use and aint going back .


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

more tits and beer please.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> more tits and beer please.












I use a bit of everything, klein, knipex, channellock, ideal, wera, whia....


----------



## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

Jlarson said:


> I use a bit of everything, klein, knipex, channellock, ideal, wera, whia....


Thats better.


----------



## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

Ive been beating on klien and snap on screw drivers. When they wear out I want em replaced. Dont care who you are and what you use. They will all wear out. Im not too impressed with the knipex pliers In my bag. Similar in quality to a mac or something. Good for wrenching on the family station wagon but dont take precedence in my pouch.


----------



## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

I still prefer Klein linesmans but I have been using knipex ***** because I dulled my blue handle Klein ones. The ***** have a different feel from Klein but in my opinion cut better.

In my opinion Wera screwdrivers suck. I bought a set of standard kraftforms a few years ago and used them for about 3 days, then went back to Klein. Then I saw the chiseldrivers, instant impulse buying kicked in and I bought them. Great for beating on but I still did not like the feel of the handle. I still have the kraftforms in my gun cleaning kit, but I gave most of the chiseldrivers away, I think I have the #1 Phillips left because no one wanted it. 

But I will say when I was an apprentice I bought a set of Wiha insulated drivers, I think in 2005. It was the small kit the sold at Sears, I think a 5pc. They were awesome, I loved them until they were stolen one by one or I lost them, I'm leaning towards the latter. 

Since then I switched back to Klein but the quality is gone, I replace my #2 Phillips every 3-4 months. So I just ordered some new Wiha's, but not a kit with the stupid small straight blades. Got me a 3/16, 1/4, and 5/16 flat and a #2 Phillips. Can't wait till they get here.


----------

