# Homeline replacement



## bctoasters (Jul 21, 2011)

Does anyone know whether there is a 15 & 20 amp "listed" tandem breaker substitute for a Square D Homeline panel. Thanks.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

bctoasters said:


> Does anyone know whether there is a 15 & 20 amp "listed" tandem breaker substitute for a Square D Homeline panel. Thanks.


do you mean tandem 15 and tandem 20, or a combo 15/20 tandem?

I've installed tandem 15s


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

answer post 2 please


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

bctoasters said:


> Does anyone know whether there is a 15 & 20 amp "listed" tandem breaker substitute for a Square D Homeline panel. Thanks.


Look here..:thumbsup:

http://products.schneider-electric....ductDetail&countryCode=us&partNumber=HOMT1520


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## bctoasters (Jul 21, 2011)

Sorry. 15 or 20amp separate tandem.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

bctoasters said:


> Sorry. 15 or 20amp separate tandem.


 Yeah, they make those. 


Thanks Harry, I've never seen one of those


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

What a rip off for $52. Siemens makes them and I believe they are $10.00 or so.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Homeline is Homeline, close but no cigar for any other breaker. Most 1" breakers will fit any other panel but Homeline had to make their breakers 1/16 inch different than any other. Look at the back were they lock onto the panel, insead of centered they are offset by 1/16 inch so they will fit "sideways" just enough to send the buss to an early grave.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

drsparky said:


> Homeline is Homeline, close but no cigar for any other breaker. Most 1" breakers will fit any other panel but Homeline had to make their breakers 1/16 inch different than any other. Look at the back were they lock onto the panel, insead of centered they are offset by 1/16 inch so they will fit "sideways" just enough to send the buss to an early grave.


I wasn't suggesting to use Seimens . Just stating that Homeline is charging an arm and a leg for the same product.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I wasn't suggesting to use Seimens . Just stating that Homeline is charging an arm and a leg for the same product.


Exactly squire D is too pricey and i don't see the benifit of squire D at those prices.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

bctoasters said:


> Sorry. 15 or 20amp separate tandem.


Here is the 20 amp still too much.http://products.schneider-electric....ductDetail&countryCode=us&partNumber=HOMT2020


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

I paid $5 for the 15 and 20a homeline tandems the other day.


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

Edrick said:


> I paid $5 for the 15 and 20a homeline tandems the other day.


What? From the discount bin at Home Despot?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

$8 at lowes


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

$11.87 at our Lowes - about $22-25 for quads. A HECK of a lot cheaper than QO, but still pricier than Siemens.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Just another reason to use Murray style circuit breakers and panels.. :thumbsup:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I wasn't suggesting to use Seimens . Just stating that Homeline is charging an arm and a leg for the same product.


 What makes you say this? Using breakers in panels that are of a different brand is sometimes looked down on by an inspector, and the manufactures sure dont recommend it, but sometimes you find yourself backed into a corner with no other options. I see nothing wrong with using the seimens 15 & 20 tandems in any panel that it will fit correctly. They are UL listed, they fit snug and tight, they work just as well in one panel as another as long as they fit. I keep nothing but the seimens tandems on my van, as the chances of you running into a panel that has an opening for a homeline tandem are slim to none. If there is an actual reason why using a different brand breaker in a panel is 1)unsafe, 2)dangerous, 3)the breaker will not work as originally designed, then Im all ears. I, personally, dont lose any sleep over this, or see any reason why this would be a dangerous practice. But of course I'm always ready to learn from others who have a different practices, just as long as there is a relevent reason why.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> What makes you say this? Using breakers in panels that are of a different brand is sometimes looked down on by an inspector, and the manufactures sure dont recommend it, but sometimes you find yourself backed into a corner with no other options. I see nothing wrong with using the seimens 15 & 20 tandems in any panel that it will fit correctly. They are UL listed, they fit snug and tight, they work just as well in one panel as another as long as they fit. I keep nothing but the seimens tandems on my van, as the chances of you running into a panel that has an opening for a homeline tandem are slim to none. If there is an actual reason why using a different brand breaker in a panel is 1)unsafe, 2)dangerous, 3)the breaker will not work as originally designed, then Im all ears. I, personally, dont lose any sleep over this, or see any reason why this would be a dangerous practice. But of course I'm always ready to learn from others who have a different practices, just as long as there is a relevent reason why.



I see no reason you would be backed in a corner and could not get the correct brand breaker. :no:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Bulldog1 said:


> I see no reason you would be backed in a corner and could not get the correct brand breaker. :no:


I do everyday. What is the reason why this would be an unsafe install?


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> I do everyday. What is the reason why this would be an unsafe install?



It is a code violation. Safe or not safe is not the issue. We always want our installs to be code compliant.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Bulldog1 said:


> It is a code violation. Safe or not safe is not the issue. We always want our installs to be code compliant.


Code reference please


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Code reference please



Article 110.3 or 110. something.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Bulldog1 said:


> Article 110.3 or 110. something.


110.3a7 says type size voltage current capacity and specific use.

I might stop and say "type" reads alot like brand, but (a) says this is for consideration in judging eryday piece of equipment t to use. Ill give you thw fact that it could be interpreted your way, but Im not convinced that it is unsafe or a code violation.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> 110.3a7 says type size voltage current capacity and specific use.
> 
> I might stop and say "type" reads alot like brand, but (a) says this is for consideration in judging eryday piece of equipment t to use. Ill give you thw fact that it could be interpreted your way, but Im not convinced that it is unsafe or a code violation.



I think it's 110.3(b)(5) ?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Bulldog1 said:


> I think it's 110.3(b)(5) ?


Not in 2008.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Not in 2008.




You have to use the breaker listed for the panel.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> I do everyday. What is the reason why this would be an unsafe install?


 
Just cause it fits doesn't mean it's right. Was it manufactured for a .125" buss bar or .120"?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Code reference please


 
Unless it's one of the listed breakers to fit that enclosure, it's a violation.




*(B) Installation and Use.​*​​​​Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions​
included in the listing or labeling.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Just cause it fits doesn't mean it's right. Was it manufactured for a .125" buss bar or .120"?


????? Not sure. Is it a violation? Or a looked down on practice?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> ????? Not sure. Is it a violation? Or a looked down on practice?


Violating the code is looked down on.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Unless it's one of the listed breakers to fit that enclosure, it's a violation.
> 
> (B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
> shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
> included in the listing or labeling.


Sure, ill go for that. But this is still a safe install, and not something I would sweat. What do you put in am old panel where you can't get any brkers?....Something that fits! All breakers are ul listed.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Sure, ill go for that. But this is still a safe install, and not something I would sweat. What do you put in am old panel where you can't get any brkers?....Something that fits! All breakers are ul listed.



They are only listed for the panel they fit. Classified is a brand that lists their breakers for many panels. Be a hack if you want. :whistling2:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Homeline is Homeline, close but no cigar for any other breaker. Most 1" breakers will fit any other panel but Homeline had to make their breakers 1/16 inch different than any other. Look at the back were they lock onto the panel, insead of centered they are offset by 1/16 inch so they will fit "sideways" just enough to send the buss to an early grave.


im glad that they did that. More panel makers need to make their buss connection proprietary.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Sure, ill go for that. But this is still a safe install, and not something I would sweat. What do you put in am old panel where you can't get any brkers?....Something that fits! All breakers are ul listed.


 
If I need a breaker for an outdated panel, I push for a service change.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MH.. you just have to wait for one company to buy the other and there is no violation.. :laughing:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Bulldog1 said:


> They are only listed for the panel they fit. Classified is a brand that lists their breakers for many panels. Be a hack if you want. :whistling2:


Maybe..I will quit argueing with you, but im not going to lose sleep over this one. Its never a perfect world, its never a perfect situation, and it NEVER works out in your favor, and yet the job still needs to get done. I work with what ive got.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Maybe..I will quit argueing with you, but im not going to lose sleep over this one. Its never a perfect world, its never a perfect situation, and it NEVER works out in your favor, and yet the job still needs to get done. I work with what ive got.


 



Your life must suck


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Your life must suck



You suck...:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Chris1971 said:


> You suck...:laughing:


I told him that a long time ago.. he is still in denial.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:

He has to beat up on a new guy to feel good about himself.. :no:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

:thumbsup:


B4T said:


> I told him that a long time ago.. he is still in denial.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:
> 
> He has to beat up on a new guy to feel good about himself.. :no:


Same chit. Different day.:no:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> What a rip off for $52. Siemens makes them and I believe they are $10.00 or so.



Link Please.:thumbsup:

Never mind- I found them between &12 & 20. Big box stores.
a month ago I stopped in to a supply house-no ties- and they tried to soak me $48 for a QO tandem. I laughed and walked out.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Yea the Siemens are around 7 maybe 8 bucks. 
The sq d ones for $50 are for replacement only. They also have a cheaper one made for their 20/40 panels that's only like ten bucks


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## ME LC (Dec 30, 2011)

This all poses a question of ethics (and a more important question regarding the 'Spirit of the Agreement' we have with being an Electrician, & the Code). If you are stuck- on an outdated panel- for a tandem - and a Siemens fits properly, is it the same as installing a 4.25" low voltage 'Eureka' trim in a 'Halo' low voltage housing? I think it's a question that is best answered by the 'Spirit of our Agreement'.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Selective Coordination. 

That is all.


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## ME LC (Dec 30, 2011)

OK. Your YouTube link made me laugh- you don't use the same one when you 'mail clients ?


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

note: 110.3a1 has been amended in 2011 nec....(product instructions?wtf)the long and short i think is liability issues...simply put..Just cause ur breaker fits in my panel company x doesn't want to be liable if a sparky puts company y's breaker in company x's panel..IMOA....you know read the fine print in the box chit ...lawyers suck...


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

I went to a house that was flipped 3 years ago. The electrical is a hack job. They used the existing SEU (2 hots and ground) to feed the interior subpanel, and stuffed everything else into a 150 amp Homeline panel. They needed a quad breaker, and all they had was an ITE (or they found out how expensive the correct breaker was), so problem solved. For 3 years. I spent almost $50 on a Homeline 30/30 quad. The bus is pitted and scorched, and I told the homeowner that it will fail again, requiring panel replacement, but I don't know when.

Maybe UL should require that the manufacturers use a different connection system to prevent breaker swapping.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

UL tests breakers and panels as an assembly. This had the effect, for decades, that breakers were listed for use only in their own panels.

That changed in the early 90's, when a Taiwan manufacturer submitted his breakers for evaluation, and provided someone else's panels. The 'classified' breaker was born.

Since then, Cutler-Hammer has led the charge, making breakers that are UL classified for use in all manner of panels- including both Square-D types. Ironically, for a while the ONLY AFCI breakers available for Square-D panes were from C-H, as all of Square-D's were under recall. Oops.

Square D has, as a matter of business strategy, tried very hard to be 'unique' in breaker applications. Alas, even their patents eventually expire. Thus, you can get classified "QO" replacements.

UL's web site has a list of the classified breakers, and what they will fit.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Amish Electrician said:


> UL tests breakers and panels as an assembly. This had the effect, for decades, that breakers were listed for use only in their own panels.
> 
> That changed in the early 90's, when a Taiwan manufacturer submitted his breakers for evaluation, and provided someone else's panels. The 'classified' breaker was born.
> 
> ...


The QO replacement made by CH cost more than a QO


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

What has cost to do with the OP's question as to whether listed replacements were available? The answer is: yes.

Pricing is a completely different topic.


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## volleyball (Sep 14, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Yea the Siemens are around 7 maybe 8 bucks.
> The sq d ones for $50 are for replacement only. They also have a cheaper one made for their 20/40 panels that's only like ten bucks


Do you have a part # for this cheaper breaker? I've got one as a sub and was deciding between a 30/40 or go with a full 40.


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