# Pushmatic = Separate Ground and Neutrals?



## cmhcissell (May 3, 2013)

This house was built in the '60s. In the mean time, a service disconnect has been added between the meter and the panel which now makes the panel a subpanel. My question is how would one go about separating the grounds from the neutrals. I know the right answer is to replace the panel but I was wondering if anyone had experience with Pushmatic panels converted to subpanels?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

don't understand your question. you put a groundbar (or two) in, and make sure the neutral bar is isolated.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Do what wildleg said but remove the mbj also.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

I know you guys like that service entrance cable, so from the picture, it looks like the panel has the concentric neutral still. 
Doesn't your code require that the neutral for a sub panel, be insulated?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

wcord said:


> I know you guys like that service entrance cable, so from the picture, it looks like the panel has the concentric neutral still.
> Doesn't your code require that the neutral for a sub panel, be insulated?


good point


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

the problem with the pushmatics is the neutral and ground bus are bonded to the box itself and the buss bars are not isolated
you would have to install an isolated neutral buss in the panel 
and there is not very much room in them for one

so Id recommend installing a newer panel and removing the bonding strip
as required in a sub panel 
besides its getting more of a pain to try to find pusmatic breakers 

Ive removed probably 20 pushmatic panels in the past 30 years


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

cmhcissell said:


> This house was built in the '60s. In the mean time, a service disconnect has been added between the meter and the panel which now makes the panel a subpanel. My question is how would one go about separating the grounds from the neutrals. I know the right answer is to replace the panel but I was wondering if anyone had experience with Pushmatic panels converted to subpanels?


Exact same panel I was working on today at my cabin. 1973 vintage. It'll work like that forever.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

one problem with pushmatics, not alot of room, usually


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

...and that f*cking screw-tap method for the N's...wtf? I deal with that allot in old commercial and it drives me nuts. Damn, we put a man on the moon back then but they used that sh*t for panels?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

If this is a Sub-panel,You will also need to change that feeder to a 4 wire as well as installing an isolated neutral bar. 

I've only ran into a few push-o-matics, and I dont know much about them, But it sure doesn't look like you have much room in there to work.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I didn't realize this was another Cletis thread until I looked at the picturs of the neutral bar again lol


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Jeez.....I assumed seperating the grounds and neutrals would require 4wires without even saying.........


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

wildleg said:


> I didn't realize this was another Cletis thread until I looked at the picturs of the neutral bar again lol


I forgot he left but of course he's still here.


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

You would think a fastener attaching the breaker to the buss bar would be good but in this case they gave a lot of trouble especially in damp basements or barns.


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