# Programmable Timer Relays ~ Who can do this without a PLC?



## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

Who can do this with a Programmable multi function Time Relay (to my knowledge does not exist)

Who can do this with a PID controller?

Who can do this without any type of PLC?

Read carefully before answering. :blink:

Trigger must be applied prior to and during the programmed time. If the trigger is lost before the programmed time has expired then no action is taken.

If the trigger maintains and the programmed time expires then contacts transfer and remained latched. Once in latched condition the contacts will not revert to original state even if the triggering event has been cleared. 

Unlatching function can only be intiated upon the application of a reseting signal (example.... momentary push button from remote station) 

The programmable range of time need only be defined in seconds. Process is not sensitive enough to require typical time ranges familiar to the numerous programmable time relays. 

I appreciate your feedback


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Sounds simple enough. 

You got a bet riding on this one? or are you looking to hire someone if they can?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

You need a latching relay, that has an ON DELAY,,,,,,they're very common, and you could do what you want to do with ONE SINGLE relay.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I agree with the others; a simple 'on-delay' will work. Easy hook-up. 

Rob


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Sounds pretty simple to me. I agree with the others, all you need is a delay on relay.


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

mattsilkwood said:


> Sounds pretty simple to me. I agree with the others, all you need is a delay on relay.



Don't think so. I dont want the relay changing condition on every instance, the process would never run.

What I want is the process to halt if the instance of the trigger was greater than say 30 seconds only. A time delay on would trigger every instance and only delay the reaction 30 seconds.

Big difference.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Introyble said:


> Don't think so. I dont want the relay changing condition on every instance, the process would never run.
> 
> What I want is the process to halt if the instance of the trigger was greater than say 30 seconds only. A time delay on would trigger every instance and only delay the reaction 30 seconds.
> 
> Big difference.


 
The terminology is the same , it's still an on delay relay,,,,they just make severla diffeerent configurations. Some, as you know take a one time signal and start a counting process and do not stop until it has completed a cycle. That's not what you want. 
Others require the input signal be applied for the entire duration the the timed start, and if released,the timed start resets,and never changes states. and if pushed again, it starts to count again. It's still an on delay relay, they just operate several different ways


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The terminology is the same , it's still an on delay relay,,,,they just make severla diffeerent configurations. Some, as you know take a one time signal and start a counting process and do not stop until it has completed a cycle. That's not what you want.
> Others require the input signal be applied for the entire duration the the timed start, and if released,the timed start resets,and never changes states. and if pushed again, it starts to count again. It's still an on delay relay, they just operate several different ways



Find me that relay, ive looked.


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## ACDC (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi, you could consider contacting someone doing micro-controllers to make you a "custom relay". There are many forums for eg. pic micro's out there and you should be able to find someone in your area!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

People have been solving this problems since the 40's with dashpot relays. I'm not sure I see the problem.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

if you can't find the timer relay, it's still easily done with a relay and a timer


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> People have been solving this problems since the 40's with dashpot relays. I'm not sure I see the problem.


There isnt one really. How come I didnt see anybody else's schematic?

Actually, I drew one up shortly after I posted this. Looks good, I think :001_huh:


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

check grainger, they list 136 timer relays. I know they make them like you are wanting, I've use them before.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Introyble said:


> Find me that relay, ive looked.


Have you contacted a product rep?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I love this relay, and have used the Omron H5C series timers a lot in the past. It will do what you need to do. Side benefit... it's cheap. Right around 150 bucks. 

http://www.ia.omron.com/data_pdf/data_sheet/h5cz_ca_csm2142.pdf


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Introyble said:


> There isnt one really. How come I didnt see anybody else's schematic?
> 
> Actually, I drew one up shortly after I posted this. Looks good, I think :001_huh:


I don't see anyones schematic either, so I hand drew one. but I found a time delay and a latching relay that will work in the configuration I drew.


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

JohnR said:


> I don't see anyones schematic either, so I hand drew one. but I found a time delay and a latching relay that will work in the configuration I drew.


Thanks John, pretty similiar to what I had in mind. I failed to mention the trigger will be a 2 wire prox switch.


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## Introyble (Jul 10, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I love this relay, and have used the Omron H5C series timers a lot in the past. It will do what you need to do. Side benefit... it's cheap. Right around 150 bucks.
> 
> http://www.ia.omron.com/data_pdf/data_sheet/h5cz_ca_csm2142.pdf


Right on the money, :thumbup: I need to read the bulliten some more


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## Big City Electrician (Jul 5, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> People have been solving this problems since the 40's with dashpot relays. I'm not sure I see the problem.


Exactly.


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

Looks like that you want an anti-bounce switch circuit with a reset. 

How about this?

View attachment 3736


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## Shorty Circuit (Jun 26, 2010)

Introyble said:


> Who can do this with a Programmable multi function Time Relay (to my knowledge does not exist)
> 
> Who can do this with a PID controller?
> 
> ...


I would not use a mechanically latched time delay-on relay for this. I'd use a delay-on relay TD1 with one of its set of NO contacts in parallel with the triggering signal. If the triggering signal is maintained for more than a few seconds the relay will close and stay closed. I'd use a second time delay relay TD2 set at around 30 seconds in parallel with the first and if that relay is triggered I'd use a NC set of contacts in series with TD1 to open both relays. I'd also use a third instantaneous relay with its NC contacts also in series with TD1 and TD2 operated by a pushbutton or other relays to reset both TD relays. 

You could instead use a time delay on latch-unlatch relay TDL with the latch coil set for a few seconds and the unlatch coil connected to a 30 second time delay-on relay TD2. An instananeous relay could be used to reset the other two relays by energizing the TDL unlatch coil with NO contacts and opening TD2 with NC contacts.


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