# Smurf pipe...



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Its great for pour in place concrete. Our company did two high school football stadiums and we used ent in the concrete stands. People in St Thomas usvi uses ent for everything.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It's good for stub-ups (or stub-downs) for structured wiring. That way, when CAT-5 becomes obsolete, you can pull in whatever is the latest and greatest and remove the CAT-5 without tearing out the walls ....


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MHElectric said:


> Who here uses ENT (smurf pipe). I never use the stuff since I havent yet figured out a practical or even remotely logical situation where it would make sense. But I sure to run into it in some house where "the old electrician" or whoever ran it. Why???....I know the couplings and connectors are real cheap.. I figure the pipe probably is too. Other than small exposed sections of wire in the kictchen, and even then only if the inspector "has-to-have!" it sheathed, I just dont find a good reason to use the stuff.
> 
> Am I wrong?
> Am I missing out on something?
> ...


I only used it once because the whole job at a collage dorm was spec that way and it was a real PITA doing all the devises with stranded wire.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

we used it for catv, phone, internet for a couple of hotels


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> I only used it once because the whole job at a collage dorm was spec that way and it was a real PITA doing all the devises with stranded wire.


Why was it a pita to use stranded? And what's that have to do with ent?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Bkessler said:


> Why was it a pita to use stranded? And what's that have to do with ent?


I would say he doesn't like to pull solid wire in ENT and then you have to pigtail or use a certain style of device with stranded wire.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

I've used it for wall mounted tvs to get the av wiring from the devices to the tv. Much easier than 2 holes in the wall and playing catch...

Sent from my tracfone prepaid phone.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> I would say he doesn't like to pull solid wire in ENT and then you have to pigtail or use a certain style of device with stranded wire.


All listed 15, 20 and 30 amp devices accept stranded or solid.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> All listed 15, 20 and 30 amp devices accept stranded or solid.


I don't put stranded wire under a ground screw in a metal box or wrap it around the screw of a device without a clamp style terminal.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Why, do you know how to do it the right way ? If you just strip the last 3/4" off and wrap it around the screw your a dumbass. There is a correct way to do it.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)




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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Used smurf tube a lot in door frames for security.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Bkessler said:


> Why, do you know how to do it the right way ? If you just strip the last 3/4" off and wrap it around the screw* your a dumbass.* There is a correct way to do it.


If your going to insult someone you should at least post the proper way to do it so that person can learn from you. This forum is set up so people can ask, learn, and share their experiences. Try sharing:thumbsup:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

360max said:


> If your going to insult someone you should at least post the proper way to do it so that person can learn from you. This forum is set up so people can ask, learn, and share their experiences. Try sharing:thumbsup:


Don't worry, he can't even spell let alone wire.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you strip ahead of the normal point and leave the insulation on the conductor, wrap around screw and tighten down, then cut the excess end off.

or you use stake on (worst practice, IMO, since you now have a multiple point failure)


however, IMO _best practice_ is using the clamp on terminals if they are available.

BTW, he was insulting people who do it the wrong way, not necessarily you (unless you are one of those dumb asses)


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

kbsparky said:


> It's good for stub-ups (or stub-downs) for structured wiring. That way, when CAT-5 becomes obsolete, you can pull in whatever is the latest and greatest and remove the CAT-5 without tearing out the walls ....


CAT-5 is already on the way out. I can purchase CAT-6 (non-terminated) from Lowe's and I understand they are already working on CAT-7.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

janagyjr said:


> CAT-5 is already on the way out. I can purchase CAT-6 (non-terminated) from Lowe's and I understand they are already working on CAT-7.


Cat 6 does not have to replace cat 5. They both have a purpose


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

The only benefit to CAT-6 is it's higher bandwidth then CAT-5.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAT-5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAT-6


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

i'm told there isn't a server that can keep up with cat5 around here

but i guess the fiber boys might change all that.....?

~CS~


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

360max said:


> If your going to insult someone you should at least post the proper way to do it so that person can learn from you. This forum is set up so people can ask, learn, and share their experiences. Try sharing:thumbsup:


Don't be such a mean guy.. take away his insults and he has nothing left..


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

Are you all dial-up? To be fair, I've never seen better real-world results than 10% of advertised no matter what hardware was on the customer end. CAT-5 isn't being used (in most cases) near as much as it can be. 10% of capacity? CAT-6's only improvement, according to Wikipedia, is less crosstalk. Also, it has a shorter max length.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

wildleg said:


> you strip ahead of the normal point and leave the insulation on the conductor, wrap around screw and tighten down, then cut the excess end off.
> 
> or you use stake on (worst practice, IMO, since you now have a multiple point failure)
> 
> ...


Exactly, and I stand by my "dumb ass" remark.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> I never use the stuff since I havent yet figured out a practical or even remotely logical situation where it would make sense.


I never understand this mentality. There is just as much a use for ENT as there is for PVC, FMC, EMT, romex, etc. They all have a time and a place.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> Are you all dial-up? To be fair, I've never seen better real-world results than 10% of advertised no matter what hardware was on the customer end. CAT-5 isn't being used (in most cases) near as much as it can be. 10% of capacity? CAT-6's only improvement, according to Wikipedia, is less crosstalk. Also, it has a shorter max length.


Where you WILL see a notable difference is in the high-end users. In industrial controls and things of that nature. It has grown to the point that the "real time" of yesterday's controls can be compared to running your Internet on dial up vs. DSL! It is this higher throughput at ever-increasing speeds that make real time monitoring and control possible for our power grids, power generation, etc.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

Interesting. I figured CAT-5 (and CAT-5e) wasn't used that much in industrial situations. Never assume...


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Peter D said:


> I never understand this mentality. There is just as much a use for ENT as there is for PVC, FMC, EMT, romex, etc. They all have a time and a place.


Forgive me for not having run into a practical situation where ENT was being used by others or by me...whats your time and place for ENT?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Forgive me for not having run into a practical situation where ENT was being used by others or by me...whats your time and place for ENT?


Just saying. I never use RMC, that does not mean there is no use for it. As has been mentioned already, it's great for slab and poured in place work. I've used it for low voltage sleeves, and used it a few times where I wanted to have a raceway method but using a typical system would have been a pain to install.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> Interesting. I figured CAT-5 (and CAT-5e) wasn't used that much in industrial situations. Never assume...


Most subs nowadays for their breaker relay controls use cat5 or cat6 via the switcher to both an in- house panel and a fiber concentrator. Usually, I have also had to run a serial to the same devices as a redundant backup. Unless communications is interrupted with main control, the only time the in house panel is periodic maintenance and testing. These remote stations have to keep track of literally millions of alarm, control, and data points. And the system is only as fast as the slowest com device in the system! Didn't mean to get so far off the subject, other than smurf tube making-up about 45% or so of what I had to pull in these control houses. :laughing: Y'all have a good one!

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I think the reason why most people don't like it is because they have had a hard time pulling wire in it. It is already a cheep wiring method people should not make it any cheaper by just throwing it in. Take the time to strap and support it and it is not that bad. All those whoop-de-do's add op to a pain in the ass wire pull. My #1 use for it has been pored in place concrete like already mentioned here. Just secure the hell out of it and use the right connectors and couplings so it doesn’t get torn out by the masons and laborers on the day of the pour. I have also used multiple runs of it above a drop ceiling in a basement of a very large house. We needed over 30 switch legs and constant feeds to landscape lights, gates, Christmas outlets and fountain all outside at the opposite end of the basement.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Who here uses ENT (smurf pipe). I never use the stuff since I havent yet figured out a practical or even remotely logical situation where it would make sense. But I sure to run into it in some house where "the old electrician" or whoever ran it. Why???....I know the couplings and connectors are real cheap.. I figure the pipe probably is too. Other than small exposed sections of wire in the kictchen, and even then only if the inspector "has-to-have!" it sheathed, I just dont find a good reason to use the stuff.
> 
> Am I wrong?
> Am I missing out on something?
> ...


just like flex duct for HVAC, its easier for unskilled labor to install.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cabletie said:


> I think the reason why most people don't like it is because they have had a hard time pulling wire in it. It is already a cheep wiring method people should not make it any cheaper by just throwing it in. Take the time to strap and support it and it is not that bad. All those whoop-de-do's add op to a pain in the ass wire pull. My #1 use for it has been pored in place concrete like already mentioned here. Just secure the hell out of it and use the right connectors and couplings so it doesn’t get torn out by the masons and laborers on the day of the pour. I have also used multiple runs of it above a drop ceiling in a basement of a very large house. We needed over 30 switch legs and constant feeds to landscape lights, gates, Christmas outlets and fountain all outside at the opposite end of the basement.


 

Suck a flexline in with a vacuum and they work fine. Not good to push a fishtape through


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

cabletie said:


> I think the reason why most people don't like it is because they have had a hard time pulling wire in it. It is already a cheep wiring method people should not make it any cheaper by just throwing it in. Take the time to strap and support it and it is not that bad. All those whoop-de-do's add op to a pain in the ass wire pull. My #1 use for it has been pored in place concrete like already mentioned here. Just secure the hell out of it and use the right connectors and couplings so it doesn’t get torn out by the masons and laborers on the day of the pour. I have also used multiple runs of it above a drop ceiling in a basement of a very large house. We needed over 30 switch legs and constant feeds to landscape lights, gates, Christmas outlets and fountain all outside at the opposite end of the basement.


it's the raceway of choice for poured in place concrete... 
parking structures, hotels, etc.

my experience has been that it is more tolerant of concrete
finishers dancing on it than sch. 40 pvc is. and it can be
put in blindingly fast. one day, on a post tension deck of a 
hotel, we were doing all the home runs in 1" smurf. we were
using GRC yard ells for the stubs, attached to a 4" piece of
strut, nailed to the form, and they were all going to the same
main panel room, so it was a matter of just pushing all of them
in the same direction, then strapping down later... we had one
guy laying out and nailing down risers, and i was going behind
him, smurfing as fast as i could go.. did 11,000 feet in 12 hours,
spread out, glued, and tie wired. 

as for people having trouble pulling wire in it, using jet line,
i can blow line thru smurf faster and easier than 3/4" pvc.
as far as pulling wire, there is less drag thru it than regular
pvc.

i usually glue it rather than use the snap on fittings. personal
preference. fittings are cheaper, and no concrete seepage..
those snap on couplings and connectors are supposed to be 
concrete tight, but they look like they would seep a bit, and
screw up blowing lines....


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

ENT is great for snaking in pvc lines such as a pool panel inside the house, future conduits to attic. 
When i was finishing Checkers prefabs they were completely wired in ENT, caused a few issues in Jurisdictions such as Oyster Bay where metallic systems are required for commercial work.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

FulThrotl said:


> it's the raceway of choice for poured in place concrete...
> parking structures, hotels, etc.
> 
> my experience has been that it is more tolerant of concrete
> ...


pics ?


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

wildleg said:


> pics ?


nope. no pics, no witnesses. it was a blitch of a day.
i went home seeing fuzzy. there were places it was
so blue you almost couldn't see the forms under the smurf.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> Why, do you know how to do it the right way ? If you just strip the last 3/4" off and wrap it around the screw your a dumbass. There is a correct way to do it.


Use a fork terminal for stranded ,to wrap around screw and watch it seperate :laughing:hack work i think...Mickey Mouse:thumbsup:


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

FulThrotl said:


> nope. no pics, no witnesses. it was a blitch of a day.
> i went home seeing fuzzy. there were places it was
> so blue you almost couldn't see the forms under the smurf.


That's a lot of blue...:blink:


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

janagyjr said:


> CAT-5 is already on the way out. I can purchase CAT-6 (non-terminated) from Lowe's and I understand they are already working on CAT-7.


cat 7 is based of ibm type 1, and only used in EU. 


This smurf **** rocks for low voltage work though


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

mikeh32 said:


> cat 7 is based of ibm type 1, and only used in EU.
> 
> 
> This smurf **** rocks for low voltage work though


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat-7


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

janagyjr said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat-7


thank you for clarifying it. I never saw it while working in europe for 3 months. 

I dont see it ever catching on here, due to the use of fiber, and cat6e


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

From what I've read, nor do I.


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## nhanson (Apr 17, 2010)

Never used smurf tube...hardly learned about it in school too


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## NWsparky (Jun 27, 2011)

I use it all the time for fiber and low voltage. It's awesome.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> All listed 15, 20 and 30 amp devices accept stranded or solid.












Oh really!


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## Modern Castle Inc. (Nov 9, 2011)

uh oh, someone actually read the strap, and it doesn't say AL either....Back to home depot!!!:whistling2:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Modern Castle Inc. said:


> uh oh, someone actually read the strap, and it doesn't say AL either....Back to home depot!!!:whistling2:


I was responding to BBQ's statement that listed devices are rated for both solid and stranded wire. That's why I quoted him Where did HD come in?


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## Modern Castle Inc. (Nov 9, 2011)

I was agreeing with you that the application of a device is listed on the strap.


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

NWsparky said:


> I use it all the time for fiber and low voltage. It's awesome.


i've got to drag some loooong runs in above a t bar ceiling, by myself,
and i'm thinking smurf would work well for that, so you aren't dragging
MC across the tbar, with the 6" R30 batts on top of it.... pull in the
smurf, strap it, pull in stranded #12 with a ground.... it's light, approved
for the purpose, and goes in quickly and fishes easily.

there. i talked myself into it. that was easy.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

lol


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