# hard wired hand dryer



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Last ones I did, we cut a 2 x 6 block and screwed it to the studs. Then we drilled a hole in the middle and stubbed a piece of 12/2 through. The hand dryers have a make up at a wierd spot (its not dead center!!), so if you can get your hands on a cut sheet you can save yourself some trouble. If you add more blocking to account for the unknown, it could really save your butt, cause those dryers are HEAVY!!!


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

hand dryers I've done just needed a tail in the right place. (like ^he said, get the cut sheet or put your hands on the dryer)


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

thanks for the replies. the hand dryers are on site. i stubbed them out already,,,my concern was failing my wall rough because the grounds werent terminated to anything..i think with a florescent light the fixture in some cases can be considered the j box,,therefore no box is needed.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

We do tons of these, we never install a box. Any that I have wired are designed to be direct wired via a 1/2" knockout in the back. No they are never in the center. 

In new construction we will leave the MC cable for it coiled in the ceiling and snake it down once we can mark the KO location perfectly. 

If it is a tile wall I just use toggles and silicone to mount them.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> We do tons of these, we never install a box. Any that I have wired are designed to be direct wired via a 1/2" knockout in the back. No they are never in the center.
> 
> In new construction we will leave the MC cable for it coiled in the ceiling and snake it down once we can mark the KO location perfectly.
> 
> If it is a tile wall I just use toggles and silicone to mount them.


I did one replacement on a block wall a few months ago, seems the local kids liked to rip them off the wall. The owner asked if I could make it so it wouldn't come off. I used construction adhesive and 1/4-20 toggles. Good luck swapping it out when it fails...:thumbup:

Tom:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

davis9 said:


> I did one replacement on a block wall a few months ago, seems the local kids liked to rip them off the wall. The owner asked if I could make it so it wouldn't come off. *I used construction adhesive* and 1/4-20 toggles. Good luck swapping it out when it fails...:thumbup:
> 
> Tom:laughing:


Damn, the wall is coming with it. :laughing:


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

I've also installed a couple of these as of late and will be doing a couple more...IMO a service disco is needed (a switch above the suspended ceiling normally). What are the thoughts on this?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

k_buz said:


> I've also installed a couple of these as of late and will be doing a couple more...IMO a service disco is needed (a switch above the suspended ceiling normally). What are the thoughts on this?


Interesting point.

Never installed one but I think at the least a breaker lock off is required.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

BBQ said:


> We do tons of these, we never install a box. Any that I have wired are designed to be direct wired via a 1/2" knockout in the back. No they are never in the center.
> 
> In new construction we will leave the MC cable for it coiled in the ceiling and snake it down once we can mark the KO location perfectly.
> 
> If it is a tile wall I just use toggles and silicone to mount them.


that would be a fail. cable must be secured within 12" of the fixture (since it isn't a luminaire) for new work. JMHIO


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wildleg said:


> that would be a fail. cable must be secured within 12" of the fixture (since it isn't a luminaire) for new work. JMHIO


Thats funny.:laughing:

The code allows snaking cables in, it does not make a distinction between new and old work. If your inspectors are you need to talk to them.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Thats funny.:laughing:
> 
> The code allows snaking cables in, it does not make a distinction between new and old work. If your inspectors are you need to talk to them.


Bob,

read 330.30 carefully and tell me where it says you meet the exception for not securing the cable within 12" of the termination. Unless it is in a "finished buiding ...where impractical" (ie. not new work), it must be secured within 12" of the termination (330.30 B). the only other exception, which i reference above, is 330.30 D 2 for luminaires and equipment in ceilings where you can leave a 6' tail.

if I am reading the code wrong, please tell me where it says your view of the installation is allowed for new work (not "finished buildings")


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Interesting point.
> 
> Never installed one but I think at the least a breaker lock off is required.


im not sure if this is required ,,but in my opinion id like to see a disconnect/switch of some kind on anything hard wired..finding the right breaker in an older panel can be a pain sometimes,,plus a switch would keep me from unknowingly turning off the alarm system cause the maintenance man powered it from the hand dryer circuit.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wildleg said:


> Bob,
> 
> read 330.30 carefully and tell me where it says you meet the exception for not securing the cable within 12" of the termination. Unless it is in a "finished buiding ...where impractical" (ie. not new work), it must be secured within 12" of the termination (330.30 B). the only other exception, which i reference above, is 330.30 D 2 for luminaires and equipment in ceilings where you can leave a 6' tail.
> 
> if I am reading the code wrong, please tell me where it says your view of the installation is allowed for new work (not "finished buildings")





> *330.30 Securing and Supporting.
> (A) General.* Type MC cable shall be supported and secured
> by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings
> or other approved means designed and installed so as
> ...


The problem is if we apply that as you are suggesting you cannot ever fish MC to a box either old or new work, same for NM.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

wildleg said:


> that would be a fail. cable must be secured within 12" of the fixture (since it isn't a luminaire) for new work. JMHIO


That only applies to "open framing" . Snaked wiring in exempt.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> That only applies to "open framing" . Snaked wiring in exempt.


remember Charlie's rule ?

i'm no code expert, but we usually secure these if it's new work, o/w do it like you said. just thought that was what the code said.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wildleg said:


> remember Charlie's rule ?


Keeping that in mind where did this come from?



> cable must be secured within 12" of the fixture (since it isn't a luminaire) *for new work.*


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Keeping that in mind where did this come from?


=- not otherwise meeting the exception for " finished buildings or structures and supporting is impractical" (I read 'finished building' as existing, ie not new work)


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wildleg said:


> =- not otherwise meeting the exception for " finished buildings or structures and supporting is impractical" (I read 'finished building' as existing, ie not new work)


I read it as a building that has a finish.

But lets read it your way, where is the section that allows the cable to go _unsecured_ within 12"?

The code has issues.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I read it as a building that has a finish.
> 
> But lets read it your way, where is the section that allows the cable to go _unsecured_ within 12"?
> 
> The code has issues.


you lost me. it says secured within 12" of a termination, unless it meets the exceptions ?

where does it say you can snake it in whenever you want ?


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Several years ago, I worked for an outfit rewiring Wal- Mart stores. Part of it was replacing the old towel racks with hand dryers, as well as auto flushes and faucets. These were new installs, but to "finished" walls. As long as the fished MC had the proper connectors at each end, it was all good with the inspectors. Also, at the mounting heights that were specified, a straight drop between the metal studs didn't use near 6' of MC. I can only think of a couple stores in which part of the refurb was new wall/tile installs, these of course got strapped because it was considered "new work".
-Jim


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wildleg said:


> you lost me. it says secured within 12" of a termination, unless it meets the exceptions ?


There are no exceptions, there are sections.

The section that allows unsupported fished cables is D, nothing in that specifically eliminates the securing requirement in B





> where does it say you can snake it in whenever you want ?


And again I point out nothing says I can't.


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