# Favorite recessed light brand



## sgtadamdee (Dec 12, 2009)

Not sure if this was posted already but was curiuos what everyone favorite brand of recessed led lights were. Money being no factor, only interested in quality light with excellent final appearance. 3000k range.
I personally like Juno. Have used halo,commercial, eco smart and they kinda looked cheap and poorly built. Open to new ideas. Thanks


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

For new construction cans we use Elite. They have the best trims of the builder grade cans that I have used.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Halo for new work, Lightolier for old work.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

Has anyone noticed that halo remodels don't bite when synching up the tension spring? Absolute garbage! The elites you can push up with your thumb and tap once with a flat head and linemans and it's set. 


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## sgtadamdee (Dec 12, 2009)

Yes!!! Total junk! They are waaaay to lose now! Found out the hard way in the middle of a big job!



zac said:


> Has anyone noticed that halo remodels don't bite when synching up the tension spring? Absolute garbage! The elites you can push up with your thumb and tap once with a flat head and linemans and it's set.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## sgtadamdee (Dec 12, 2009)

Need to try these out!



Going_Commando said:


> For new construction cans we use Elite. They have the best trims of the builder grade cans that I have used.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I haven't installed recessed lights in a long, long time now. I use the wafer/pancake style LED lights 100% of the time nowadays. I did a complete 180 with those. I did care for the price and unavailability of the Lotus brand, but as soon as Lithonia made them available Next Day for a great price on Amazon, I never looked back.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I haven't installed recessed lights in a long, long time now. I use the wafer/pancake style LED lights 100% of the time nowadays. I did a complete 180 with those. I did care for the price and unavailability of the Lotus brand, but as soon as Lithonia made them available Next Day for a great price on Amazon, I never looked back.


I see.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I haven't installed recessed lights in a long, long time now. I use the wafer/pancake style LED lights 100% of the time nowadays. I did a complete 180 with those. I did care for the price and unavailability of the Lotus brand, but as soon as Lithonia made them available Next Day for a great price on Amazon, I never looked back.


I may go that route if it's 1/2" deep and can be screwed into a joist. That would make layout a no brainer. 


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

I like the Halo remodel cans, they work fine for me:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-H7-6-in-Aluminum-Recessed-Lighting-Housing-for-Remodel-Ceiling-Insulation-Contact-H7RICT/100070753

Whatever are the lowest cost LED trims (usually ECOSmart or Commercial Electric).

Also these pancake style: 
https://www.amazon.com/Lithonia-Lighting-WF6-LED-40K/dp/B071H2Y3LV/ref=asc_df_B071H2Y3LV/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=216506979975&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3249608245725588587&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028757&hvtargid=pla-350416536450&psc=1


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

I like the Halos for the quality, low wattage and long life. Easy to impress customers with those numbers and I’m not worried about call backs. I do wish they were brighter though and in that respect I like the Elites, although with brighter comes higher wattage (which is still low though) and shorter life - 35000 compared to 50000 for the Halos. That being said, I use slims 100% of the time in new construction. Way more flexibility for placing them. I’ve even tentatively started putting them in soffits in new construction. I just cut a hole in OSB and slap it up.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> I may go that route if it's 1/2" deep and can be screwed into a joist. That would make layout a no brainer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No screwing necessary. The spring clips work great whether there is a joist or not.

Layout is awesome, no need to worry about joists or any type of framing. I just drill out the holes with a grit holesaw. 

I've hit old plaster ceilings, plywood, etc. It doesn't matter. Just cut enough of it out to get the 2 clips and the wire thru and you are good to go.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dark Knight said:


> That being said, I use slims 100% of the time in new construction. Way more flexibility for placing them. I’ve even tentatively started putting them in soffits in new construction. I just cut a hole in OSB and slap it up.


What do you do, leave the driver attached to the framing and the wire hanging down, and then drill the hole after the drywall is up?


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

HackWork said:


> What do you do, leave the driver attached to the framing and the wire hanging down, and then drill the hole after the drywall is up?


Basically. I still put a big vapour boot up and poke my wires in and cut them in after. If I have time I’ll wire the drivers up right away, otherwise just poke them in and tuck them up. Write the measurements in my journal and done. Makes for a quick rough in. Much quicker than cans anyway, and a little more time at finishing.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> No screwing necessary. The spring clips work great whether there is a joist or not.
> 
> Layout is awesome, no need to worry about joists or any type of framing. I just drill out the holes with a grit holesaw.
> 
> I've hit old plaster ceilings, plywood, etc. It doesn't matter. Just cut enough of it out to get the 2 clips and the wire thru and you are good to go.


That's a for sure money maker. Layout with a remodel can is usually half the time. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## sgtadamdee (Dec 12, 2009)

I can see on outdoor soffits how these can be a real time saver and money maker but I’m assuming you can’t have a deep baffle.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I haven't installed recessed lights in a long, long time now. I use the wafer/pancake style LED lights 100% of the time nowadays. I did a complete 180 with those. I did care for the price and unavailability of the Lotus brand, but as soon as Lithonia made them available Next Day for a great price on Amazon, I never looked back.


I can't justify Lotus compared to Lithonia price wise anymore. Once you get used to the odd Lithonia JB, ther're good.

Remodel cans are dumb. The last job I did where they wanted to match existing, i mangled the old cans, pushed them up into the ceiling and made everything wafers.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Still using Lithonias for the kitchens, new and old work. The layout is so much easier.


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

HackWork said:


> What do you do, leave the driver attached to the framing and the wire hanging down, and then drill the hole after the drywall is up?


How do you do them in new construction?


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dark Knight said:


> How do you do them in new construction?


During rough-in, draw an "X" on the floor for your fixture location. Shoot a dot up to the ceiling with a laser plumb. Pull your cable to the dot. You need to install your fixtures before flooring or your X's disappear.

Sometimes it's easier to use cans for new construction because the drywallers cut the holes.


----------



## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

HackWork said:


> I haven't installed recessed lights in a long, long time now. I use the wafer/pancake style LED lights 100% of the time nowadays. I did a complete 180 with those. I did care for the price and unavailability of the Lotus brand, but as soon as Lithonia made them available Next Day for a great price on Amazon, I never looked back.


I too prefer the wafer lights. do you guys have and ideas for wafer lights which are available as parts? Which is to say, I need to install a series of wafers in a place that will not accommodate the drivers. So, I need wafers that either do not have the proprietary connectors or I need extensions with those connectors.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

mofos be cray said:


> I too prefer the wafer lights. do you guys have and ideas for wafer lights which are available as parts? Which is to say, I need to install a series of wafers in a place that will not accommodate the drivers. So, I need wafers that either do not have the proprietary connectors or I need extensions with those connectors.


Lotus makes extenders. I know a guy who knows a guy who splices in LVT but it's more work (and the purists scold him about warranty). He warranties his work and doesn't care about factory warranty on a $20 fixture.


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

99cents said:


> I can't justify Lotus compared to Lithonia price wise anymore. Once you get used to the odd Lithonia JB, ther're good.
> 
> Remodel cans are dumb. The last job I did where they wanted to match existing, i mangled the old cans, pushed them up into the ceiling and made everything wafers.


Aren't the hole dimensions for 6" cans a bit larger then the hole
diameter of a wafer? 

Last job I used the wafer lights I had to get a hole saw just
about 1 size down from _what I used to use_ for 6" old work cans.

I agree...housings are a thing of the past.

The most recent new construction job I did (a June rough-in)
I tried to talk customer out of their desired design of those
Kichler LED downlights and just do wafer lights , but they just couldn't
or wouldn't grasp the idea...so I had to install 34 4" round nail
ons , just to put in 34 LED lights ...stupid , but I made more $.


----------



## sgtadamdee (Dec 12, 2009)

lighterup said:


> 99cents said:
> 
> 
> > I can't justify Lotus compared to Lithonia price wise anymore. Once you get used to the odd Lithonia JB, ther're good.
> ...


So here in NJ going rate for new or remodel cans go for 100-150$ per can and finish trim. What’s the going rate for these style wafers installed


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

sgtadamdee said:


> So here in NJ going rate for new or remodel cans go for 100-150$ per can and finish trim. What’s the going rate for these style wafers installed


Ask Hackworks or Trenton. I don't work in Jersey


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> Aren't the hole dimensions for 6" cans a bit larger then the hole
> diameter of a wafer?
> 
> Last job I used the wafer lights I had to get a hole saw just
> about 1 size down from _what I used to use_ for 6" old work cans..


On this job, they fit perfectly. Lotus does make goof rings for oversized holes.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> Ask Hackworks or Trenton. I don't work in Jersey


They don't work, they just drive around collecting money  .


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

99cents said:


> On this job, they fit perfectly. Lotus does make goof rings for oversized holes.


I take it then that the clips still hold tight with a goof ring?
The clips must extend in further to compensate for the
wider hole?

I don't believe the ones my supplier sells have goof rings. 
Pretty sure they are Lithionia's .


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I take it then that the clips still hold tight with a goof ring?
> The clips must extend in further to compensate for the
> wider hole?
> 
> ...


I have never had an issue but, yeah, if the hole is too big, goof rings won't work. I had one job where I cut 4" holes by mistake for 3" gimbals and the goof rings worked. I carry a few goof rings with me in the monster van. I'm lucky, I have a really good local Lotus store.


----------



## sgtadamdee (Dec 12, 2009)

And that is a problem why? Lol



99cents said:


> lighterup said:
> 
> 
> > Ask Hackworks or Trenton. I don't work in Jersey
> ...


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Here's a photo of a small commercial job where that guy I know spliced in LVT. He says it's cheaper and easier than armoured cable and it's still going strong after two years  .


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dark Knight said:


> How do you do them in new construction?


I do not do any new construction and only a tiny bit of renovations. So I still use conventional recessed lights so that the drywallers cut the hole and make the dust.

As long as I can get the lights where I want them, that is a good way for me. But as you mentioned, if framing is in the way then the pancakes are the best bet. But since the framing is exposed and you can see it and show the customer, that isn't as much of an issue as doing it old work.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

lighterup said:


> Aren't the hole dimensions for 6" cans a bit larger then the hole
> diameter of a wafer?


Just like with conventional recessed lights, some brands are different than others. I forget what size it is, but I use the same holesaw for 6" Lithonia wafers as I use for Nora brand standard cans.



mofos be cray said:


> I too prefer the wafer lights. do you guys have and ideas for wafer lights which are available as parts? Which is to say, I need to install a series of wafers in a place that will not accommodate the drivers. So, I need wafers that either do not have the proprietary connectors or I need extensions with those connectors.


I use Lithonia from Amazon. They make extensions.



sgtadamdee said:


> So here in NJ going rate for new or remodel cans go for 100-150$ per can and finish trim. What’s the going rate for these style wafers installed


Remodel should be around twice new. New should start at $150 in NJ, old work $250-400, depending on accessibility, plaster, etc.

As for the difference between conventional cans and wafers, there really isn't one now. Back when the wafers were more expensive than normal cans it still canceled it out because the labor was less. But now the wafers are the same if not cheaper than standard cans and LED trims, and the labor is still less. So charge just as large either way.


----------



## WPNortheast (Jun 4, 2017)

Halo or Lightolier. For new I’ve been using the e7hicat, like 7 bucks. Cheaper than h7icats. But have you ever installed lightolier remodels? Superior design, thumbs install.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If Lithonia makes extenders, that's the way to go. In attics, I mount the drivers above the loose fill on a framing member.


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

99cents said:


> During rough-in, draw an "X" on the floor for your fixture location. Shoot a dot up to the ceiling with a laser plumb. Pull your cable to the dot. You need to install your fixtures before flooring or your X's disappear.
> 
> Sometimes it's easier to use cans for new construction because the drywallers cut the holes.


Do you use a vapour boot or anything? Here the attic is always insulated by the time I come back so I have to use one. It’s handy cuz I cut my hole and there’s my wires and no insulation, but as soon as I use those the inspectors here make us support it on all 4 sides. 

I put the x’s on the floor but I also make sure I write my measurements down, just in case. Definitely nice to have the drywallers cut them out. That’s about the only advantage I see to still using cans. But then I’ll have one area like a hallway where there’s a truss right down the middle of the hall and it’s slims or no potlights and I don’t want to use slims in one section and cans in another cuz they don’t match so I just go slims all the time.


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

lighterup said:


> Aren't the hole dimensions for 6" cans a bit larger then the hole
> diameter of a wafer?
> 
> Last job I used the wafer lights I had to get a hole saw just
> ...


This has been my experience as well. It would be pretty handy if they made them slightly bigger. I just did a reno/addition where I had the drywallers just patch over all the cans, repaint the ceiling and I cut new holes and put slims in so they matched the ones in the addition.


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

HackWork said:


> I do not do any new construction and only a tiny bit of renovations. So I still use conventional recessed lights so that the drywallers cut the hole and make the dust.


This exactly is the the one reason I held onto doing cans for a while after the slims hit the market, especially after the prices came way down on them. I loathe getting full of drywall dust.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dark Knight said:


> Do you use a vapour boot or anything? Here the attic is always insulated by the time I come back so I have to use one. It’s handy cuz I cut my hole and there’s my wires and no insulation, but as soon as I use those the inspectors here make us support it on all 4 sides.
> 
> I put the x’s on the floor but I also make sure I write my measurements down, just in case. Definitely nice to have the drywallers cut them out. That’s about the only advantage I see to still using cans. But then I’ll have one area like a hallway where there’s a truss right down the middle of the hall and it’s slims or no potlights and I don’t want to use slims in one section and cans in another cuz they don’t match so I just go slims all the time.


I must use a really dull pilot bit because it actually pushes the VB up and out of the way when I drill the hole. It works best midway between trusses where there is slack in the VB. if I nick the VB, I Tuck Tape it. Then I push the extenders up through the loosefill. No loose fill drops to the floor. If I can mount the drivers at the hatch, I can work off a ladder.


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

WPNortheast said:


> Halo or Lightolier. For new I’ve been using the e7hicat, like 7 bucks. Cheaper than h7icats. But have you ever installed lightolier remodels? Superior design, thumbs install.


I have zero reason to ever use another remodel housing again. They are essentially obsolete.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dark Knight said:


> This exactly is the the one reason I held onto doing cans for a while after the slims hit the market, especially after the prices came way down on them. I loathe getting full of drywall dust.


For old-work I use a grit holesaw with a dustbowl. I keep my 5 gallon bucket right at my feet and drop the entire thing into it when I am done drilling. I am tall enough to drill into an 8' ceiling without a ladder.

For the most part it's 99% dust-free. A drop cloth on the ground is all you need.

With that said, I hate having to do anything like that on a brand new pristine floor, so that's why I like leaving it to the drywallers :devil3:


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

99cents said:


> I must use a really dull pilot bit because it actually pushes the VB up and out of the way when I drill the hole. It works best midway between trusses where there is slack in the VB. if I nick the VB, I Tuck Tape it. Then I push the extenders up through the loosefill. No loose fill drops to the floor. If I can mount the drivers at the hatch, I can work off a ladder.


Aaah. I try to avoid going into the attic on new construction. But if you can do it from the hatch that might be something to think about. 

Yes, a dull pilot bit is the way to go. This is what I do for reno work. Most of the time I manage not to cut the poly at all and just push the wire up through the pilot hole. I wire my drivers up down below before I go up so all I have to do in the attic is connect one wire from the switch or JB and go find my little wires and plug them in.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I really like the look of shower lights...


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> I really like the look of shower lights...


 Hi sweet love.

Electrician are the only people who ever look at recessed lights. No one else notices.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> I really like the look of shower lights...


What do your customers like?


----------



## Dark Knight (Jan 6, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Electrician are the only people who ever look at recessed lights. No one else notices.


This is probably more true than most of us know.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I dunno, customers will tell me how good the fixtures look without paying attention to the light they throw.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dark Knight said:


> This is probably more true than most of us know.


A lot of people initially call me from work. They will ask for an estimate expecting me to come to their house. I will often try to price it over the phone if I can.

There have been many times in which a customer called wanting recessed lights installed in a room and want the same lights as what they already have in another room. But when I ask them what the existing ones look like, they can never describe them. 

I will ask if they are white and they say they think, but when I get there they are black. They will say that they are just normal recessed lights, but I find gimbals or eyeballs. They have no idea.

They make light, that's all they know.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I dunno, customers will tell me how good the fixtures look without paying attention to the light they throw.


That's because they are looking at their new purchase, appreciating it. They may look at the lights another 3-4 times over the next day or two. But then they will never look at the light again :biggrin:


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> That's because they are looking at their new purchase, appreciating it. They make look at the lights another 3-4 times over the next day or two. But then they will never look at the light again :biggrin:


True. I thought I would get resistance from customers over the appearance of Lotus Lights when I first started using them but people like them. Baffles and BR's now look like they're from the 70's.


----------



## mjbasford (Oct 2, 2016)

For everyone asking about rough ins, aspect makes a rough in bracket, about .50 cents of plastic (metal?, Never justified the price personally) for 10 bucks each on their website. May be worth it on some jobs to avoid cutting later.

https://www.aspectled.com/products/...n-recessed-led-light?variant=9925605573#tab-1


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I always used Progress because that's what the local supply houses sold. I always felt there was a perception of value (from the customer's viewpoint) if I was using something they couldn't buy themselves at Lowe's and Home Depot. In truth, I've used every brand a little bit before, and the differences aren't remarkable enough (to me) to sway me in any particular direction.


----------



## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

99cents said:


> If Lithonia makes extenders, that's the way to go. In attics, I mount the drivers above the loose fill on a framing member.


I've put a lot of those in suspended ceilings. But if I did one in insulation, I thought the drivers were IC rated ? Is that not the case, or are you just being cautious because of heat ?


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I don't offer anything else for recessed lighting. They get to see a sample and if there is any resistance to it, and there hasn't, we'd discuss it.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

emtnut said:


> I've put a lot of those in suspended ceilings. But if I did one in insulation, I thought the drivers were IC rated ? Is that not the case, or are you just being cautious because of heat ?


Just being cautious and easier to service.


----------



## sandbox (Jun 13, 2016)

For rough in, any supplier selling slim pots will also sell rough in rings. Like previously mentioned. I'll chalk line me grid one way, lazer the other way and screw up the rough in rings with Kelly screws. This is great for complex layouts. The only time I don't use rough in rings is in a coffered ceiling. Leave the wire up there and hole saw after


----------

