# TV For Over Tub



## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Is there ANY safe way to do this, as in a TV meant for this application? I have seen a few magazines from Europe where the TV is built in to the tub surround, and I have installed them behind sealed glass, with the box and what not in the room behind the TV. But I have a job where the homeowner insists he NEEDS a TV over the tub. He is saying he will do it the second we leave, but understands why we won't do it. I won't accept the liability. I won't even recommend anything to him about the TV and I don't want to hear a single word about it. FWIW, It's an exterior wall, with no possibility of building a cove for the TV.

The not needed background is...
Based on code, the receptacle has to be outside of the tub area. No problem, put it just on the outside edge. That recep. is then code compliant. Irrelevant.

But now you have a TV over the tub, and while it's not an outlet/light (or could it be considered a light :laughing: ), it's still technically code compliant one could argue. Again Irrelevant.

I know that there are a hundred threads with the same idea, but I'm really looking for a TV that is designed for this application, not so much the code/legality of doing so. Also, how have you legally installed TV's over a tub (pictures preferable)..


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

there is a mirror with tv built in made for that purpose (go to ceasar's at atlantic city and spend the night)


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

wildleg said:


> there is a mirror with tv built in made for that purpose (go to ceasar's at atlantic city and spend the night)


Where does the receptacle go? Where is the access? 

I've seen plenty of these TV's over sinks, but can't find anything about them. They always seem built in to the vanity mirror.

I wonder how a projector would work...(with out the lens fogging up)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If you install a recep (GFI-protected, of course) outside the footprint of the tub, your job is compliant. Forget what he says he's gonna do after you leave... who cares?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

There are weatherproof flatscreen TV enclosures that have a NEMA rating of some kind. I wonder if that wouldn't do the trick?

-John


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

480sparky said:


> If you install a recep (GFI-protected, of course) outside the footprint of the tub, your job is compliant. Forget what he says he's gonna do after you leave... who cares?


I care. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

svh19044 said:


> I care. :thumbsup:


So you're gonna refuse every job now based on the fact that HOs do stupid things after you leave?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

http://www.homedit.com/bathroom-mirrors-with-built-in-tvs/

http://www.seura.com/


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

wildleg said:


> http://www.homedit.com/bathroom-mirrors-with-built-in-tvs/
> 
> http://www.seura.com/


There are a bunch of tv's just like this, but where does power come from? The couple that I have seen all had power sources behind the vanity/mirror/tv...which would be over the tub.

ETA: I guess it would be a 6/9/12v power supply or low voltage to run elsewhere, if that's the angle.

I could always hide the receptacle under the vanity along with the hdmi/ir repeater/cable box. That seems easy enough.

It looks like the Hydra series are the only one I could even use for directly over the tub, great find!


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

put it behind glass / plexi


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## Sparkypyro (Nov 2, 2011)

Couldn't you put the receptacle in the wall behind or above the T.V? That way the receptacle would not be located over the tub and would be "outside" the tub footprint. GFCI protected of course.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

mdfriday said:


> put it behind glass / plexi


The receptacle has to go somewhere. I guess a big enough tv wouldn't be an issue though. :whistling2: I've done an install or two with the TV behind plexi, and the components/recep in the room on the backside of the wall. But sometimes, like the current job, it's an exterior wall so that isn't an option.

The Seura Hydra above looks like the only good option.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Sparkypyro said:


> Couldn't you put the receptacle in the wall behind or above the T.V? That way the receptacle would not be located over the tub and would be "outside" the tub footprint.


The current inspector won't pass the recep behind the tv (doesn't meet code anyway). he said that if there is a cove behind the TV, with the TV inside the cove, he would be willing to discuss it. Obviously "above" the tv wouldn't pass either. That's all I got. There is no room for a cove and it doesn't fit in with whatever they have designed for the tub, so the cove is not an option.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

svh19044 said:


> There are a bunch of tv's just like this, but where does power come from? The couple that I have seen all had power sources behind the vanity/mirror/tv...which would be over the tub.
> 
> ETA: I guess it would be a 6/9/12v power supply or low voltage to run elsewhere, if that's the angle.
> 
> ...


you'll have to find the specs. I never installed one, i just assumed they were line voltage.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

IMO if there is a recess in the wall and the receptacle is in that recess then it is not over the tub. The code here is screwy as over the tub , IMO is in the ceiling.

Is this compliant. There is a sink to the left and a tub on the right.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

We did a framed opening on the wall between the tub a closet and put the plug in the closet. The inspector didn't like it but couldn't do anything about it. You could just put two low voltage boxes behind each other and run the wired through it to the back side the wall.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

svh19044 said:


> Is there ANY safe way to do this, as in a TV meant for this application?


How about a weatherproof 12 VDC TV?

http://fortheroad.hcpus.com/nanov-15Â”-12-volt-waterproof-lcd-tv-p-679.html


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> IMO if there is a recess in the wall and the receptacle is in that recess then it is not over the tub. The code here is screwy as over the tub , IMO is in the ceiling.
> 
> Is this compliant. There is a sink to the left and a tub on the right.


I don't even understand the point of how they worded it. A mm outside of the tub and it's okay, but a mm to the right and it's not. It serves no purpose, and at least the lighting has suitable distances. As to whether or not that is compliant, I say yes, current township inspector says no, other inspectors would probably say yes. But if we are using "outside the tub area" , pretty much ANY area outside of ANY tub is going to be compliant, as they all have a bit of a lip. Except directly above in the ceiling, as you say. 



Theriot said:


> We did a framed opening on the wall between the tub a closet and put the plug in the closet. The inspector didn't like it but couldn't do anything about it. You could just put two low voltage boxes behind each other and run the wired through it to the back side the wall.


I've done the back to back for the cord before, but that's when there was a room behind it. The TV was also behind glass. I'm trying to get idea's (and I did) on when putting a plug in the next room isn't possible.



BBQ said:


> How about a weatherproof 12 VDC TV?
> 
> http://fortheroad.hcpus.com/nanov-15%C3%82%E2%80%9D-12-volt-waterproof-lcd-tv-p-679.html


That's pretty much what the Seura Hydra is, but the Hydra is much nicer/cleaner. Either way, certainly an option, though the 3' cord might be a problem if the "Nanov" is hardwired.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

svh19044 said:


> I don't even understand the point of how they worded it. A mm outside of the tub and it's okay, but a mm to the right and it's not. It serves no purpose,


I think it serves a purpose. The purpose it serves is allowing a receptacle to be installed in a small bathroom.

If you had a minimum distance from the tub requirement that could be an issue in many bathrooms. Furthermore unless they are using kitchen appliances in the bathroom most cords are 3' to 6' meaning you would need the receptacle 6' from the tub if the goal was to keep people from doing stupid things.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> if the goal was to keep people from doing stupid things.


Don't change that- that is part of our population control and insurance for the Darwin theory of the strong survive


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

If its a whirlpool run the plug down to the whirlpool rec. under the tub. Hell even if it isn't put one next to the service opening GFI of course


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Theriot said:


> If its a whirlpool run the plug down to the whirlpool rec. under the tub. Hell even if it isn't put one next to the service opening GFI of course


Do you mean run the cord down through the wall cavity? :sneaky2:


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

svh19044 said:


> Do you mean run the cord down through the wall cavity? :sneaky2:


Yea that's what i was thinking. Even if it isn't a whirlpool there has to be an access door for inspections and repairs.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Theriot said:


> Yea that's what i was thinking. Even if it isn't a whirlpool there has to be an access door for inspections and repairs.


If we aren''t doing things to code, why not just mount the recep. behind the tv?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Theriot said:


> Yea that's what i was thinking. Even if it isn't a whirlpool there has to be an access door for inspections and repairs.


You cannot run a cord thru a wall.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You cannot run a cord thru a wall.


I know but if the tv isn't there for inspection it's not through the wall YET. The whole idea is finding away and he said he was to concerned about code I thought. What about run a piece of conduit in wall it should only be a short run. Just trying to throw out ideas they aren't all gems. Lol


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You cannot run a cord thru a wall.



*WE *can't.

But HO's _can_.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> *WE *can't.
> 
> But HO's _can_.


 
Woooo hoooo........ Oh Shockdoc..... :whistling2: :laughing:


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## shawnhalen (Jan 20, 2012)

Put the recpt box in behind the tv and blank it off, tell home owner when your gone. He can do as he wishes with it


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Theriot said:


> I know but if the tv isn't there for inspection it's not through the wall YET. The whole idea is finding away and he said he was to concerned about code I thought. What about run a piece of conduit in wall it should only be a short run. Just trying to throw out ideas they aren't all gems. Lol





shawnhalen said:


> Put the recpt box in behind the tv and blank it off, tell home owner when your gone. He can do as he wishes with it


If this is what it's come down to, maybe we should just close down the ET forum and all just post in the DIY forum.

WTF kind of solutions are these ?


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

If the HO wants the tv bad enough tell him to have a carpenter frame the tv into the wall. (assuming there is a closet on the other side). Mount the recp. on the other side of the wall along with the cable drop. Problem solved.

Or mount the TV in the bathroom adjacent to the tub and put a swivel mount on it. Then he can even rotate it to watch while on the john.

2 very good solutions that arent hack and are code compliant.


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Theriot said:


> We did a framed opening on the wall between the tub a closet and put the plug in the closet. The inspector didn't like it but couldn't do anything about it. You could just put two low voltage boxes behind each other and run the wired through it to the back side the wall.


 
Those A/V box covers with nylon 'brushes' used to run wiring would make this even easier for the H.O. It isn't "through a wall" if it's a framed opening.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

I have always talked them into a different location where they can see still from the tub. Over cabinets or or door casing etc. Almost every house it's TVs in the tub area and chandelier over the tub also. It's like a routine now with HO of why I can't.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

wildleg said:


> If this is what it's come down to, maybe we should just close down the ET forum and all just post in the DIY forum.
> 
> WTF kind of solutions are these ?


Just throwing out ideas sorry. It's called brain storming or in my case drizzling. I like it when my crew throws out ideas for a problem even though it won't work it may lead to a solution. Maybe someone can take an idea that's not code and spawn one that is. Sorry I'm not smart enough hell I study all night for a piss test once and failed.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of a TV near the tub. 

TV's used to have 'cathode ray' picture tubes, that acted like huge capacitors. Even with the set unplugged they held enough of a charge to literally toss you across the room or melt a screwdriver. I do not know if the LCD and Plasma TV's have this issue.

I do know that UL lists a hot tub with a TV screen right at the waterline. I've also seen Japanese sets spcifically marketed for use over the tub. So, there must be a way to do this safely.

I just would not want to use any TV except one that was designed for the use.

If for no other reason than that the elevated humidity in a bathroom can't be good for the electronics. That's why I like the 'put it behind a window' idea.


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Amish Electrician said:


> I am very uncomfortable with the idea of a TV near the tub.
> 
> TV's used to have 'cathode ray' picture tubes, that acted like huge capacitors. Even with the set unplugged they held enough of a charge to literally toss you across the room or melt a screwdriver. I do not know if the LCD and Plasma TV's have this issue.
> 
> ...


Agreed. The old CRT sets I'd never agree to install over a tub. Hey, even the northeast gets earthquakes now. Those old sets would kill a man if one fell from that height. If that didn't get you, the discharge would finish the job.

New flatscreens are lighter and *somewhat* less deadly electrically. But they are sensitive to humidity so behind glass is still preferable.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Theriot said:


> Just throwing out ideas sorry. It's called brain storming or in my case drizzling. I like it when my crew throws out ideas for a problem even though it won't work it may lead to a solution. Maybe someone can take an idea that's not code and spawn one that is. Sorry I'm not smart enough hell I study all night for a piss test once and failed.


don't apologize. I was just ranting.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

CraigV said:


> = Hey, even the northeast gets earthquakes now. Those old sets would kill a man if one fell from that height. If that didn't get you, the discharge would finish the job.


Or the ceiling could fall and kill them, I try not to 'what if' everything to death.


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