# Funky SE work



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Who installs the lateral in your area POCO or contractor?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

leland said:


> This has been this way for at least 3 years,just took it yesterday(sitting in traffic).
> Sorry for the poor quality. I like the way it goes across the roof.:thumbsup:


Where are you from? Have you ever been to Upstate New York, Mass, or Pennsylvania or Delaware? They use SE like it's ornamental trim. I've seen it wrap more than 1/2 way around a house...


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Where are you from? Have you ever been to Upstate New York, Mass, or Pennsylvania or Delaware? They use SE like it's ornamental trim. I've seen it wrap more than 1/2 way around a house...



Mass. We use a ton of SE, but not like that!!!! Ya I have seen the 30-40' runs. But they have been neat. This is absurd!

POCO brings the feed to the Point of attachment.(corner of the house/building)


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

My point being, the Poco brings the lateral, the local inspector is also the town dog catcher, and the SE is obviously no-man's land when it comes down to anything.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

We had 1 inspector here,said "SE is ok but put it in conduit,to protect it from the salt air"

This was 25 miles from the Ocean!!! (he's retired now):no:


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Helps stop the roof from icing up.


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## vinster888 (May 3, 2009)

every time i see SE strapped to the wall i want to scream.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

Ok we see the problem. What is the solution to working with what you got? My dad and brother both work for the utility in NJ (PSEG) They call all of us independents hacks for reason in picture.There job is providing service. Whats in your wallet.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

The reason folks run the se cable around the outside of a house is because once it enters you need to hit the panel asap.


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

what is a POCO?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

*Po*wer *Co*mpany


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> My point being, the Poco brings the lateral, the local inspector is also the town dog catcher, and the SE is obviously no-man's land when it comes down to anything.



I have no idea what your trying to say, first a 'lateral' is underground, in the picture we have an overhead service drop. The SE is under the NEC and the NEC allows the use of exposed service entrance cable for service entrance.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

vinster888 said:


> every time i see SE strapped to the wall i want to scream.


Sounds like a personal problem.:laughing:

I removed the RMC from my house and installed SE, I have no wish to have an industrial look to my home.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

vinster888 said:


> every time i see se strapped to the wall i want to scream.


why??


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

i wrapped SE cable around the house before


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Time to post my famous SE cable job. Try to control your screaming.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Give the place a coat of paint and you won't even notice the SE.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Time to post my famous SE cable job. Try to control your screaming.


 i like this job actually i think it looks pretty good for SE cable


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

It is nice and neat.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Time to post my famous SE cable job. Try to control your screaming.


 Now that's entertainment:laughing: Even wrapped the down spout:thumbup:


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## vinster888 (May 3, 2009)

it does look good for what it is and the time it took. i will give it that. after some screaming. i still prefer the rigid riser myself.


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

*AAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEE*... wow nice job. we dont run it here, it is usually emt.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Redbeard: (only did'nt quote for space reasons)

If you did that job in rigid... Would it look real sharp? And do you think you would get it?

There is a reason that was done with SE... We all know what that reason was. Sad. No?:thumbup:

But in the end....... Everybody was happy!!!!:thumbsup:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

You mean, SE*R...* right?



MDShunk said:


> Time to post my famous SE cable job. Try to control your screaming.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> You mean, SE*R...* right?


Inasmuch as straight SE does not even exist, and SER is a more descriptive style of the general term type SE cable, yes. I used type SE, style R cable in that installation. I suspect most people call that SER. Can't get nuttin by you, eh? 

I'm not sure why people favor calling type SE, style U just plain "SE cable", but it seems that many people do. To call something simply "type SE cable" is a pretty generic term for any type SE cable, be it SEU or SER.


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## vinster888 (May 3, 2009)

how long is that building? theres 16 meters there. coulnt run conduit through the basement? im not knocking the look of the job just the look of the building. no offense


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I see that all the meters are all on one side of the main. What is the buss rated for that are running horizontal?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

vinster888 said:


> how long is that building? theres 16 meters there. coulnt run conduit through the basement? im not knocking the look of the job just the look of the building. no offense


 There might be 20 meters there.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

How did you mount the cable to the brick? Drill 10,000 holes and use "rawl" anchors with a 2-hole strap?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

What Marc failed to mention is he lives in one of those apartments. :whistling2:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> How did you mount the cable to the brick? Drill 10,000 holes and use "rawl" anchors with a 2-hole strap?


That's not brick. They're sidewall shingles over I-don't-know-what. Some of the cable is run kinda funny because there was only mush-mush to screw into in certain places.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

vinster888 said:


> coulnt run conduit through the basement? im not knocking the look of the job just the look of the building. no offense


Sure, could have done that same job 20 different ways. This way happened to be the cheapest. That was the goal for this job. The owner basically said, "If you can figure out a way to do this job for X, we'll do it. If you can't, it's not getting done". I figured out a way to do it for X, and still made good money.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

william1978 said:


> There might be 20 meters there.


Yes, there is. The max real load in each unit was around 20 amps. Each tenant panel only ended up with 1 or 2 circuits in it when the service was rebuilt.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Yes, there is. The max real load in each unit was around 20 amps. Each tenant panel only ended up with 1 or 2 circuits in it when the service was rebuilt.


Are those #2 SER cables? :blink:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Are those #2 SER cables? :blink:


Yeah, and that's sort of a sore subject. It was an inspector problem. I couldn't get him to listen to reason. I'd rather have fed each panel with something like 10-3 UF. "Nope! 100 amp to minimum to each dwelling unit!"


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, and that's sort of a sore subject. It was an inspector problem. I couldn't get him to listen to reason. I'd rather have fed each panel with something like 10-3 UF. "Nope! 100 amp to minimum to each dwelling unit!"


Unbelievable.  I hope you found this out before you did the install, right?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, and that's sort of a sore subject. It was an inspector problem. I couldn't get him to listen to reason. I'd rather have fed each panel with something like 10-3 UF. "Nope! 100 amp to minimum to each dwelling unit!"


 The inspector is correct on this one.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

william1978 said:


> The inspector is correct on this one.


No, not correct at all. The proof is in the pudding (code section) and there is none to require running a 100 amp feeder to a studio apartment.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> No, not correct at all. The proof is in the pudding (code section) and there is none to require running a 100 amp feeder to a studio apartment.


What would the minimum be?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

william1978 said:


> What is the minimum?



You could run a 30 amp circuit if that was sufficient for the calculated load. We are talking about multi-family dwellings here, not single family. The "100 amp minimum" rule does not apply to multifamily dwellings.


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

leland said:


> Redbeard: (only did'nt quote for space reasons)
> 
> If you did that job in rigid... Would it look real sharp? And do you think you would get it?
> 
> ...


 
never said it was a bad thing, just said we dont use it. EMT( electrical metallic tubing) would have been preferred here. Now if this was a NEW job, maybe something differ than pipe, since it can be ran thru the attic


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Time to post my famous SE cable job. Try to control your screaming.


I'm curious, was the service located outdoors for any specific reason? At what point, if any, do you changeover to an interior electrical closet? I'd fear children trying to climb those meters like it's a rockclimbing wall...


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I'm curious, was the service located outdoors for any specific reason?


Yes. No room inside. PoCo requires the metering equipment outdoors, and indoors only with special permission.



LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> At what point, if any, do you changeover to an interior electrical closet?


 Nearly never. Mainly just in new work. 



LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I'd fear children trying to climb those meters like it's a rockclimbing wall...


 So what? It's a legal install. If kids are climbing meters, where's their supervision? If they're climbing meters, unsupervised, and get hurt their parents are to blame. Not me.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> So what? It's a legal install. If kids are climbing meters, where's their supervision? If they're climbing meters, unsupervised, and get hurt their parents are to blame. Not me.


 BINGO It would be the parents fault for sure.


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## jrhelectrical (May 12, 2009)

This must be an uplift for a previous application. I see older situations like MDSHUNK's all the time and they've been around a long time. jrhelectrical


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## Electrified (Jun 5, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> i like this job actually i think it looks pretty good for SE cable


 
wtf...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I wonder what the reception would be like for an AM radio if you stuck it out that window above the meter stack?


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## vinster888 (May 3, 2009)

william1978 said:


> What would the minimum be?


230.23 Size and Rating.
(A) General. Conductors shall have sufficient ampacity to
carry the current for the load as calculated in accordance
with Article 220 and shall have adequate mechanical
strength.
(B) Minimum Size. The conductors shall not be smaller
than 8 AWG copper or 6 AWG aluminum or copper-clad
aluminum.

looks like 40a would do with that #8 cu


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

vinster888 said:


> 230.23 Size and Rating.
> (A) General. Conductors shall have sufficient ampacity to
> carry the current for the load as calculated in accordance
> with Article 220 and shall have adequate mechanical
> ...


Just so we are clear, article 230 covers services, not feeders. The cables that Marc installed around the building could have been much smaller. I think he mentioned 30 amp circuits would have been adequate.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Electrified said:


> wtf...


 whats wrong with it? it looks great all the wires are straight


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> whats wrong with it? it looks great all the wires are straight


Sometimes people aren't used to seeing things done a certain way, so their immediate reaction is to condemn it out of hand. It's human nature I guess.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Sometimes people aren't used to seeing things done a certain way, so their immediate reaction is to condemn it out of hand. It's human nature I guess.


 i believe he ran the se cable because it was cheaper than pipe. the customer probably wanted to save money. i believe thats what marc said


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## vinster888 (May 3, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Just so we are clear, article 230 covers services, not feeders. The cables that Marc installed around the building could have been much smaller. I think he mentioned 30 amp circuits would have been adequate.


yep caught me not paying attention again. ahh its hard to do with the economy and all.


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## Mogie (May 26, 2010)

Minimum service entrance size in single-family dwellings is 100a. Minimum service entrance size in other (multi-family) is 60a. In no case is a feed of 20 or 30a sufficient, no matter what its current measurable load. See 230.79.
I hope this helps. Mogie


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

230.79(b) says for 2 circuit instalations, the rating should be 30 amps....I believe Marc said that most only had 2 circuits ....


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Mogie said:


> Minimum service entrance size in single-family dwellings is 100a.


That is not correct.

If the Article 220 load calculations said 50 amps is enough you could install a 50 amp service in a single family home.

Only the service disconnecting means is required to be 100 amps.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> That is not correct.
> 
> If the Article 220 load calculations said 50 amps is enough you could install a 50 amp service in a single family home.
> 
> Only the service disconnecting means is required to be 100 amps.


That's what I thought....Try arguing with these idiots about though...


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

In the area where i grew up and started in the trade, the local POCO has not allowed SE or any other cable for ANY service since the mid 1960s. All services were installed in rigid steel conduit. When I first moved to the Cincinnati area, in the late 80s, I thought that it was bizarre to see SE cable installed on the side of $500,000 plus homes. I suppose it is just the old "when in Rome......"


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

varmit said:


> I thought that it was bizarre to see SE cable installed on the side of $500,000 plus homes.


And yet they where not all bursting into flames.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

NolaTigaBait said:


> That's what I thought....Try arguing with these idiots about though...


 
Ive done several 60 amp service changes on rental houses. Had to use 100a meter can because they dont make 60a anymore. Passed just fine. O


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> And yet they where not all bursting into flames.


I didn't mean that one method was safer than another. To me exposed cable looks ugly. It is rare to see an installation with service cable that really looks neat to me. However, if I had to wire houses for a living, I would use the method required to do the job, as long as it was code compliant.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

How many bricks of duct seal did you plow through??

Yeah, around here, Studios are 60A, backfed breakers. But that is with a small range in new construction.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Time to post my famous SE cable job. Try to control your screaming.


an electrician who doesnt believe in disconnects and snaking.....clean but disturbing....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> an electrician who doesnt believe in disconnects.......


Discos would be in the MDP.



Shockdoc said:


> ......... and snaking......


Maybe the owner didn't want to pay for snaking.



Shockdoc said:


> .......clean but disturbing....


But perfectly legal.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Want to hear disturbing.............

My dad built a house in New Hampshire. Went to get the permits to build.
Guess how many he needed to build his house about 2200sqft. 

Ans. 2 
1) for the septic pipe
2) for the SE

Nothing else was inspected no CO needed. :laughing::no:


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> an electrician who doesnt believe in disconnects and snaking.....clean but disturbing....


 I bet the owner does'nt live there!!!


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## moman (Apr 15, 2010)

*ginger bread house?*

:001_huh:


MDShunk said:


> Time to post my famous SE cable job. Try to control your screaming.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Discos would be in the MDP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't like workamanship like that...although its legal. Definetly a cut throat contractor....Seen plenty of that in stroudsburg PA. Actually seen a service (meterpan and mast ) affixed on a fourth floor deck(50') from grade......Legal ??? Only in stroudsburg


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