# Required Rebar Grounding?



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If the rebar qualifies as a concrete encased electrode then you must use it. Look at 250.52(A)(3) to see if it qualifies


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

What Dennis said.



But, you are probably best off using more rebar in your foundations, using that as an electrode will be far superior to any other electrode, especially when it comes to towers (ie things that take lightning strikes often).


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I totally agree that a CEE is by far an easier and better electrode than a rod.


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## skadude (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm not disputing that CEE is better, and i've been told I must use it, and I've read 250.52(A)(3) at the qualifications, but I can't find where it says I *must* use it.

Also, if it does qualify and I do use the rebar as CEE, then why would others say I must also drive a rod and bond to it as well?


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

skadude said:


> I'm not disputing that CEE is better, and i've been told I must use it, and I've read 250.52(A)(3) at the qualifications, but I can't find where it says I *must* use it.


250.50 is where you will find the requirement that if an electrode is present then it must be used.



> Also, if it does qualify and I do use the rebar as CEE, then why would others say I must also drive a rod and bond to it as well?


There is no NEC requirement that a CEE be supplemented with an additional electrode. This is most likely a common myth, I hear the myth "Two sources of ground" all the time.

Chris


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

raider1 said:


> 250.50 is where you will find the requirement that if an electrode is present then it must be used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like Chris is saying:thumbsup:


Here is part of the story -

*The "*_*Ufer*_*" Ground*​The term "Ufer" grounding is named after a consultant working for the US Army during World War II. The technique Mr. Ufer came up with was necessary because the site needing grounding had no underground water table and little rainfall. The desert site was a series of bomb storage vaults in the area of Flagstaff, Arizona. 
The principle of the Ufer ground is simple, it is very effective and inexpensive to install during new construction. The Ufer ground takes advantage of concrete’s properties to good advantage. Concrete absorbs moisture quickly and looses moisture very slowly. The mineral properties of concrete (lime and others) and their inherent pH means concrete has a supply of ions to conduct current. The soil around concrete becomes "doped" by the concrete, as a result, the pH of the soil rises and reduces what would normally be 1000 ohm meter soil conditions (hard to get a good ground). The moisture present, (concrete gives up moisture very slowly), in combination with the "doped" soil, make a good conductor for electrical energy or lightning currents.
Ufer techniques are used in building footers, concrete floors, radio and television towers, tower guy wire anchors, light poles, etc. Copper wire does not function well as a "Ufer" ground due to the pH factor of concrete (+7pH is common). The use of steel reinforcement as a "Ufer" ground works well and concrete does not chip or flake as has been found with copper. The use of copper wire tied to the reinforcement rods outside the concrete shows none of these problems. 

All of it  Here[/url}.http://www.psihq.com/iread/ufergrnd.htm


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I have read so many bios on ufer and almost everyone calls him Mr. Ufer rather than by his first name-- Herbert--If my memory serves me.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah his first name was Herbert, Herbert G Ufer 

No I didn't know him, I'm not that old, so we can forget about making that joke :laughing::laughing:



My favorite grounding technique on well sites or anything that is getting surrounded with a block wall is to weld all the rebar in the footer and use that as the electrode.


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