# 240V generator and 208V service



## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

What does Generac say?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Virtually ALL 208Y120 loads are looking for 120VAC Line to Neutral.

Those that take 208VAC can tolerate 240VAC.

I seriously doubt that a buck-boost transformer is much use... unless it's required to fool the control logic.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

MDB1988 said:


> I'm being asked to install a 120/240 backup generator and ATS for a building with a 120/208Y service. This was mistakenly(?) ordered by a previous electrician.
> 
> 
> The subpanel that the ATS will be feeding is single phase so no issue there.
> ...


I can speak for the ASCO 300 and 300G series. As long as the voltage is 208 volts p-p you can drop the voltage range on a 240 volt switch to accomodate. If the voltage is much below 208 volts then there is not enough adjustment room.

Just remember that a 208 volt service from the utility side can actually be +-5% or as low as 196 volts p-p and still meet service delivery standards.

The problem you face is getting the installation inspected. Is you inspector going to buy off on a 240 volt generator and transfer switch?

Then you have another issue. You indicated that all your loads on this undoubtedly 3 phase panel are single phase...

That is wonderful except that on a 240 delta systyerm one of your phases has no neutral reference, thats why it’s a “high leg”.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

So, you've got a 3 phase service, with a single phase panel? Does the customer know they have the wrong panel/generator? How are you getting 208 out of a single phase panel?


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## MDB1988 (Nov 13, 2017)

Yes, the control logic is what I'm worried about. The loads will be fine.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Oh... I forgot something...

Darn few generator ends that are 240 volt delta cannot be rewired to 208 volts. The only ones i have seen in real life are the 20kw units tied to Detroit 2 cyl engines that werre pull outs from the rail road. If it’s got 12 wires cvoming from the generator end I’ll pretty much guarantee you can re-wire it to 208V wye.

so...

Why not re-wirew the generator to 208 volts, and buy a 208 volt ATS?

Do the job right and be done with it.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Oh...another option

Do a voltage conversion on the ATS. Make it a 208 volt switch. Then re-wire the generator for 208 volts, and be done with it.


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## MDB1988 (Nov 13, 2017)

Some really interesting stuff here with the different configurations for the generator winding wiring. Will have to do some reading.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

ksanders said:


> Oh... I forgot something...
> 
> Darn few generator ends that are 240 volt delta cannot be rewired to 208 volts. The only ones i have seen in real life are the 20kw units tied to Detroit 2 cyl engines that werre pull outs from the rail road. If it’s got 12 wires cvoming from the generator end I’ll pretty much guarantee you can re-wire it to 208V wye.
> 
> ...


The genset is 120/240v single phase. It is not a 240v delta.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

ksanders said:


> I can speak for the ASCO 300 and 300G series. As long as the voltage is 208 volts p-p you can drop the voltage range on a 240 volt switch to accomodate. If the voltage is much below 208 volts then there is not enough adjustment room.
> 
> Just remember that a 208 volt service from the utility side can actually be +-5% or as low as 196 volts p-p and still meet service delivery standards.
> 
> ...


 op doesnt have a 240 delta genset, but a 120/240 single phase gen feeding an ats and single phase 120/208 panel. The only concern is any utilization equipment thats actually rated at 208v only, 240 vac maybe be to high. The control side is looking for 120vac p-n, should be just fine.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

joebanana said:


> So, you've got a 3 phase service, with a single phase panel? Does the customer know they have the wrong panel/generator? How are you getting 208 out of a single phase panel?


2 legs and a neutral off of a 3 phase wye service gives you single phase.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

tates1882 said:


> op doesnt have a 240 delta genset, but a 120/240 single phase gen feeding an ats and single phase 120/208 panel. The only concern is any utilization equipment thats actually rated at 208v only, 240 vac maybe be to high. The control side is looking for 120vac p-n, should be just fine.


Thats not how transfer switches work. ATS units sense phase to phase, not phase to neutral.

What he needs is to configure the generator as I indicated for 208 volts, and have a 208 volt switch.

He has many paths to get there, but that is what he needs.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

What did the engineers at Generac say?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have one of those set ups I take care of. Has worked fine for years. Not my install, nor would I do it this way since air cooled three phase units have been available for awhile. This is a nexus unit, previous controller to what you most likely have.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I feel for the OP that people are assuming 3 phase by not reading the ENTIRE Post.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

so to describe the problem another way, you need:

1) ATS to switch to genset when normal power is not 208 +/- 5%
2) ATS to switch to normal when normal power is 208 +/- 5% after delay of nn seconds good power

I haven't worked on these glorified lawnmowers, but my question is: does this ATS really care what the genset power is ? If it does, all you need to do is defeat the logic (if it has that logic) that prevents transfer if genset power is out of range. I would be surprised if generac cannot help you with this (even if it means buying a new 208 transfer switch). So, if I am correctly guessing, your control board just needs to be sensing for 208v, whereas it is now looking for 240. seems like it should be an easy fix.

BTW, whatever you do end up doing, please print a giant label, and some handy instructions for the poor clown who has to come behind you in the future.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

A quick look at the installation manual might help. It took all of a minute to find the pick up and drop out voltage on the utility side. 

Page 4/ 5

http://psndealer.com/dealersite/images/newvehicles/2016/nv1075490_2.pdf


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> I feel for the OP that people are assuming 3 phase by not reading the ENTIRE Post.


Given the chance to do a new install, I'd look to swap the panel to a three phase one so the voltages are the same provided the install wasn't that complicated. Single phase line to line loads probably don't care much whether its 208 or 240v. It's a question of whether the pick up and drop out settings in the controller will work with 208 reliably. The setup I work on is most, if not all L-N loads.

No rewiring these smaller alternators.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Voltage tolerances are within specifications. 

Me, I would set it and forget it. :wink:

Where is Flyboy? He installs these by the truckload. Im sure this isnt something new.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

after thinking about it for a few minutes, it seems to me that you are going to have to buy a 3 phase transfer switch anyway, because you want the genset to switch out in the case that you lose a leg on the service anyway, and the switch you have doesn't even see the 3rd leg.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

wildleg said:


> after thinking about it for a few minutes, it seems to me that you are going to have to buy a 3 phase transfer switch anyway, because you want the genset to switch out in the case that you lose a leg on the service anyway, and the switch you have doesn't even see the 3rd leg.


Really? 
How are you getting into all if this unnecessary three phase? 

The switch will tolerate the voltage differences and work just fine. 

http://psndealer.com/dealersite/images/newvehicles/2016/nv1075490_2.pdf

Again.
Set it and forget it.


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## MDB1988 (Nov 13, 2017)

The proposed setup is Main panel (3 phase 208Y/120V) > ATS (designed for single phase 120/240V but fed 120/208V) > Subpanel (single phase 120/208V).
This subpanel has been in place for a while now like this just without the ATS.


I've seen the voltage pickup/dropout numbers. 192V for pickup and 156V for dropout. That's pretty much my main worry since we have some very large compressors in this building that pull 1200A 480V on startup. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop the 120/208V service voltage way down when they start.


Going to call Generac again today.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Thans to Southeastpower for pointing out that I had failed to read that this was a Single Phase Generac Generatr intending to be sed in a Three Phas installation.

My advice to the OP is changed.

Decline the installation.

By the correct equipment.

Do the job right or don’t do it at all.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

There is a built in 10 sec delay before it calls to start.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> Really?
> How are you getting into all if this unnecessary three phase?
> 
> The switch will tolerate the voltage differences and work just fine.
> ...


dude, unless the 208/120 panel is fed from only 2 of the 3 incoming 3 phases (not likely), you need to monitor all 3 phases because if any one drops out on the normal power, you want the generator to start. How do you propose to do that when the single phase transfer switch can only monitor 2 legs ?

(the fact that you will only be feeding two of the 3 legs is another issue entirely, but not enough info in the OP to determine if there is a problem there or not)


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

wildleg said:


> dude, unless the 208/120 panel is fed from only 2 of the 3 incoming 3 phases (not likely), you need to monitor all 3 phases because if any one drops out on the normal power, you want the generator to start. How do you propose to do that when the single phase transfer switch can only monitor 2 legs ?
> 
> (the fact that you will only be feeding two of the 3 legs is another issue entirely, but not enough info in the OP to determine if there is a problem there or not)


OP has stated several times the existing sub panel is single phase. Theres nothing wrong with using single phase off of a 3 phase service. 



MDB1988 said:


> The proposed setup is Main panel (3 phase 208Y/120V) > ATS (designed for single phase 120/240V but fed 120/208V) > Subpanel (single phase 120/208V).
> This subpanel has been in place for a while now like this just without the ATS.
> 
> 
> ...




OP needs to ensure the single phase 208 load connected to the panel are rated for 240 input. Other than that install it and collect a pay check.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

tates1882 said:


> OP has stated several times the existing sub panel is single phase. Theres nothing wrong with using single phase off of a 3 phase service.
> 
> OP needs to ensure the single phase 208 load connected to the panel are rated for 240 input. Other than that install it and collect a pay check.


As long as the ATS is rated for the service voltage.

Installing a ATS rated at 240 volts single phase operating voltage onto a 208 volt service, even only 2 legs of that service is not accepable.

The nameplate rating on the ATS needs to match theservice voltage.

Even if it will work, it is wrong. Lots of things will work, but that does not make them right.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

ksanders said:


> Installing a ATS rated at 240 volts single phase operating voltage onto a 208 volt service, even only 2 legs of that service is not accepable.
> 
> The nameplate rating on the ATS needs to match theservice voltage.


You got a code ref to back that up?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

It’s an interesting point. The ASCO units he sells, being two wire start are all geared towards specific voltages and phases. The Generac ones (resi, RTS) types are commanded so to speak from the generator controller. Still they come labeled as 120/240v single phase in this case. Like I said, I maintain one of these set ups that has run fine for several years. Never really stopped to question whether it was really “legal, violating a listing, labeling” etc. My desire for three phase would be if I could sell it that way. It’s a good and fair question.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

ksanders said:


> As long as the ATS is rated for the service voltage.
> 
> Installing a ATS rated at 240 volts single phase operating voltage onto a 208 volt service, even only 2 legs of that service is not accepable.
> 
> ...


I have installed few single phase generators on three phase supply source and as long the load is not three phase requirement then I dont see the issue with it as long the customer is aware of that.

If that customer do need three phase load to run off from the generator then I will set up a proper generator and transfer switch.

I have three phase generator that it can be set up for either single phase or three phase pretty quick. 

and I think you are aware the resdentail grade generators almost never come in three phase verison at all unless you get larger unit. ( 30 KW or up )


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

It’s not well known, but three of the manufacturers, Briggs, Kohler, and Generac have smaller air cooled three phase units.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

The ATS is listed under UL-1008 for a specific voltage and intended service.

If you place it into service at a non rated voltage then you are voiding the UL listing.

You are also not following the manufacturers recommendations.

No pure code violations there, but it will be up to the individual inspector as to wether to accept the installation. 

It is not unheard of to have a emergency sub panel running two phases of a three phase service.

The proper installation method is to use a properly rated switch. You could use a 208 volt three phase switch and set it up for two phase sensing, or you could buy a 2 pole switch rated at the service voltage of 208 volts.

This is not brand specific, it is just good workmanship to use equipment rated by the manufacturer for the application.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> It’s not well known, but three of the manufacturers, Briggs, Kohler, and Generac have smaller air cooled three phase units.


Yes I am aware of that and useally a special order item.

I do keep small 5 KW diesel generator which it do have three phase in it.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have a couple of the Generac air cooled three phase units. Backing up small servers. So far so good.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

The panel being fed from the ATS is single phase. The breaker feeding the ATS is single phase. The ATS is single phase.

Why is the term 3phase even being brought into the conversation?

The ATS voltage tolerances are within the 208 and 240 range.

Just install it and don't worry about it.

We all know it's a wye voltage, it's just not a three phase panel.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> The panel being fed from the ATS is single phase. The breaker feeding the ATS is single phase. The ATS is single phase.
> 
> Why is the term 3phase even being brought into the conversation?
> 
> ...


The panel being fed is really not single phase. The panel being fed is two phases of a three phase system.

The utility voltage is 208 volts with a phase separation of 120 degrees.
The ATS is 240 volts with a phase separation of 180 degrees.

If the manufacturer intended it’s ATS to be used in a two phase 208 volt system or a single phase 240 volt system they would indicate that. I have seen plenty of equipment (not ATS units) labled as 208-240 volts indicating that it could be used on 2 phases of a 208 volt system or 2 legs of a single phase system


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

Wow, this thread has gone a lot further than it should have. With a lot of unneeded information. [emoji37]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

If the transfer switch can’t tolerate it the just use a single phase 208 primary to 120/240 transformer to feed the main side of the ATs.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

OK.
Just forget about anything three phase. It doesn't apply in any why the OP is setting up the ATS.
The OP, from what I understand, is simply intercepting the feeder to a single phase panel.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ksanders said:


> The panel being fed i*s really not single phase*. The panel being fed is two phases of a three phase system.
> 
> The utility voltage is 208 volts with a phase separation of 120 degrees.
> The ATS is 240 volts with a phase separation of 180 degrees.


Nobody that has any experience in the trade is calling a SINGLE PHASE panel fed off a 208/120 Wye system two phase. Proper field terminology would be a single phase panel. 

Check the IEEE Dictionary nowhere does it say to be a single phase circuit the 180 degrees separation.

Can't post the definition as I do not have the online version of the IEEE Dictionary.

The biggest issue I see is the pickup and drop out voltages, WHICH may be adjustable depending on the manufacturer, with ASCO, ONAN, ZENITH they use the same ATS's with different control panels,(for all 120-480 maybe 600 as well systems) with ONAN that is programmable for the site voltage. (I have not been in the field working regularly on ATS for a few years, though I do occasionally run EM calls.)

Ordered a single phase 240/120 ONAN a few months back a three pole ATS came in with the controls set for 240/120 VAC.
Last year had a single phase that was 208/120 VAC

ASCO with Group 5 Control Panels have voltage adjustment settings, same with Zenith (not group 5 though)


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

brian john said:


> ksanders said:
> 
> 
> > The panel being fed i*s really not single phase*. The panel being fed is two phases of a three phase system.
> ...


 exactly


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Would there be a problem with motors seeing 180 degree separation and going to 120 degree when the switch retransfers in an instant?


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

brian john said:


> Nobody that has any experience in the trade is calling a SINGLE PHASE panel fed off a 208/120 Wye system two phase. Proper field terminology would be a single phase panel.
> 
> Check the IEEE Dictionary nowhere does it say to be a single phase circuit the 180 degrees separation.
> 
> ...


I used the term “two phase” intentionally to differentiate between a single phase service (which as we all know utilities supply) and two legs of a three phase service which has NEVER been supplied by a utility in North America.

I know the term “two phase” does not exist but then again neither does a real service that is 208 volts phase to phase consisting of two phases and a neutral with a 120 degree separation.

We all know that 208 comes from three 120 volt secondary transformers in a wye configuration rght? 120 * sqrt 3 =208, but we all know that.

The reality here is that persons here are advocating using a 240 volt ATS in defferance to manufacturers recommendations to connect to a panel that was probably built for that exact reason within a 208 volt facility.

The fact that it might work with ABC brand equipment does not make it right, it just means it can be made to work.

When I specify equipment for an application I specify what is right, which again would be a 208 volt switch, and a 208 volt generator. That way we do not need to jury rig up a 2 phase panel in the field to match what was incorrectly specified in the first place.

I know I am new around here guys, but this is a professional forum and we should be recommending solutions that meet manufacturers specifications and are also industry “best practices”.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Let's keep it simple.
The ATS the OP is installing doesn't have the same programmable control as an ASCO or other "real" ATS.
If there is good voltage coming off the alternator and utility power isn't present, the solenoid will pull in.

Forget anything about motors and phase angle.
The basic question has always been " will this crap work" and the answer is.

YES.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I want to comment that there are a million apartments with a 3 phase meter bank that are using 2 of the three phases and a neutral as 120/208 single phase.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> I want to comment that there are a million apartments with a 3 phase meter bank that are using 2 of the three phases and a neutral as 120/208 single phase.


That is interesting! I have never seen that.

In my utility experience which I admit is limited to Alaska we always use a single phase service to a ganged meter base for all the installations I or my crew did. (I ran the meter/relay/substation shop at our local utility for years).

That is great to know!

I suppose it would work as long as they do not try to run any 240 volt motors, which would not work.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Many single phase motors have a 208 volt listing, usually at 1.00 service factor if I’m thinking right. 3HP and up are generally 230 only though.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ksanders said:


> That is interesting! I have never seen that.
> 
> In my utility experience which I admit is limited to Alaska we always use a single phase service to a ganged meter base for all the installations I or my crew did. (I ran the meter/relay/substation shop at our local utility for years).
> 
> ...


I've seen hundreds of 240 volt motors run on 208 and the other way around. 
And.
I routinely work on Open Delta systems. They only bring in two phases and magically make 3 phase using only two pots/pigs/TX.:surprise:


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> I've seen hundreds of 240 volt motors run on 208 and the other way around.
> And.
> I routinely work on Open Delta systems. They only bring in two phases and magically make 3 phase using only two pots/pigs/TX.:surprise:


ho ho ho it's magic!


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> I routinely work on Open Delta systems. They only bring in two phases and magically make 3 phase using only two pots/pigs/TX.:surprise:


I will admint that I had to look up open delta. I have never seen it.

We do not do that up here. 

Do your utilities supply open delta as a service? 

We supply 240 delta although not much, and. of course 208 and 480 wye, but never an open delta.

I also have to say that I thought about the motors working on 208 Vs 240 and I posted too early on that issue. I do not have much hands on with motors, so I was speaking from a thoeretcal stanspoint and could easily have been in error.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

We work around some open delta. The local REA will only provide it after the customer signs a waiver of liability so if anything goes wrong anyplace it is the customer problem. Apparently there can be some horrendous feedback issues on the power line depending on where the line would fault or open with some wild voltages going to other customers.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We are changing out an 800 amp open delta this week. I put in a permit for a 400 amp open delta today.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

tmessner said:


> We work around some open delta. The local REA will only provide it after the customer signs a waiver of liability so if anything goes wrong anyplace it is the customer problem. Apparently there can be some horrendous feedback issues on the power line depending on where the line would fault or open with some wild voltages going to other customers.


Yes, that was different! 

The things you see in different parts of the country/world. lain:

I’m not sure why someone would do a open delta, when you could just install a three pot setup to get a delta or wye.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

In rural areas the power company did not always all 3 phases available or close by. They would then use 2 phases somehow through 2 tubs and create an open delta, but you know how that works better than me. All I know is that we had 240 line to line and watch out for the wild leg. It really tests the smoke theory on 120 volt equipment.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

ksanders said:


> I will admint that I had to look up open delta. I have never seen it.
> 
> We do not do that up here.
> 
> ...


I have done few open delta system so I am famuair with it but to do the trouble shooting it can get little tricky with it if you are not aware of it. 

I live in Philippines and I get both delta and wye depending on the customer requirement. ( everything here is 240 volts and up ) I have few locations here have open delta service but very limited but in Cebu it is pretty common. ( my location is split on delta and wye )


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> We are changing out an 800 amp open delta this week. I put in a permit for a 400 amp open delta today.


Can I ask Why???

Are you asking for it, or is it something the utility is just providing.

Is there a cost savings from the utility or something?

Our utilities do not charge for a service unless they have to do a line extension to get it to your location, so I’m having a understanding challenge.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

tmessner said:


> In rural areas the power company did not always all 3 phases available or close by. They would then use 2 phases somehow through 2 tubs and create an open delta, but you know how that works better than me. All I know is that we had 240 line to line and watch out for the wild leg. It really tests the smoke theory on 120 volt equipment.



Ahhh...

Now I am starting to understand.

We never run two phases on a distribution line. We either have all three phases or we just run single phase.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ksanders said:


> Can I ask Why???
> 
> Are you asking for it, or is it something the utility is just providing.
> 
> ...


The "lighting" pig might be 100kva and the "power" pig could only be a 30kva in some setups. 
Its really nice to see a 400 amp fused main with 2 x 400 and 1x 150 amp fuse.

Now and then we find a service upgrade where they changed the fused disconnect with a main breaker. It looks a bit strange and of course non-conforming, to see that installation knowing someone had an Oh poop moment.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

The connection is called open star open delta, if you have a smallish motor load it works fine. I assume the savings in pulling a third phase conductor is the deciding factor. 
At a previous employer, we had a ready mix plant that ran off a open star open delta, no issues at all and single phase 120-240 off the lighter x former. 
Around here co-ops are really the only ones who use this system.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> *The "lighting" pig might be 100kva and the "power" pig could only be a 30kva in some setups.
> Its really nice to see a 400 amp fused main with 2 x 400 and 1x 150 amp fuse.
> *
> Now and then we find a service upgrade where they changed the fused disconnect with a main breaker. It looks a bit strange and of course non-conforming, to see that installation knowing someone had an Oh poop moment.


That would send me into outer orbit.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> I want to comment that there are a* million *apartments with a 3 phase meter bank that are using 2 of the three phases and a neutral as 120/208 single phase.


You forgot all the condos so the number is 2 million five.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ksanders said:


> I
> 
> The reality here is that persons here are advocating using a 240 volt ATS in defferance to manufacturers recommendations to connect to a panel that was probably built for that exact reason within a 208 volt facility.
> 
> ...


I explained why you are wrong (reread my post)and as a professional maybe you should reflect on answers provided and think damn I learned something.


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

brian john said:


> I explained why you are wrong (reread my post)and as a professional maybe you should reflect on answers provided and think damn I learned something.


Brian

I did learn something today and had a great conversation about it.

I learned about open delta! That was fantastic, and that makes me glad, because I love learning. I REALLY apreciate the dialog I have had in that area today.

I did not learn anything about the proper application of a ATS unit, I already knew that.

I have dealt with customers calling me more than once with the issue in the past of needing to switch two phases of a 208 volt service for one reason or another. My answer to them is the same I gave here, use a ATS that is rated for the service voltage. They did exactly that, buying a three pole 208 volt 3 pole switch and programming it for single phase sensing. 

Please note that I specify NFPA 110 compliant switchgear for a living. I cannot get this wrong. I cannot professionally recommend something and risk it getting kicked back on an inspection. I cannot risk a life health safety issue to arise in the equipment I specify.

To be perfectly honest I do not work with any of the Generac residential equipment, prefering to focus my prosessional energy on industrial, commercial, and NFPA 110 compliant switchgear.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ksanders said:


> Brian
> 
> I did learn something today and had a great conversation about it.
> 
> ...


All we do is commercial, industrial, to include but not limited to electrical testing, controls, switchboard modifications, service and repair of ATSs, switchboards, circuit breakers to include MV and LV equipment and a ton of data center work, we also specify gear all the time, we just finished a 6-1 meg install with control modifications to existing 1970 gear (analog ripped out PLCs installed and programmed). My company was an ASCO service rep, for 15 years. So like you I am fairly adept at contributing to this discussion, though I can be wrong I try to post based on fact as I know them. 

As I said in my original post the major manufacturers, do not make different ATS's based on voltages (talking the ATS, not controls) Onan will furnish a 3-pole set up for single phase. After that, depending on the manufacturer the voltage and system configuration can be programmed in the control panel. 

Now if you want to see some complicated distribution systems check out Philidelphia, they have 5-wire two phase.

https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/scott-t-transformer-connection-overview

Second, you came in here and questions others professionalism, so if I seem a tad testy, sorry.

Third Where in Alaska?


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## ksanders (Sep 7, 2018)

brian john said:


> All we do is commercial, industrial, to include but not limited to electrical testing, controls, switchboard modifications, service and repair of ATSs, switchboards, circuit breakers to include MV and LV equipment and a ton of data center work, we also specify gear all the time, we just finished a 6-1 meg install with control modifications to existing 1970 gear (analog ripped out PLCs installed and programmed). My company was an ASCO service rep, for 15 years. So like you I am fairly adept at contributing to this discussion, though I can be wrong I try to post based on fact as I know them.
> 
> As I said in my original post the major manufacturers, do not make different ATS's based on voltages (talking the ATS, not controls) Onan will furnish a 3-pole set up for single phase. After that, depending on the manufacturer the voltage and system configuration can be programmed in the control panel.
> 
> ...


Nice background, I’m sure we can share info, and pick up tidbits from each other. 

Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct. :smile:

I’m in Southcentral Alaska as a base. We are in Big Lake, about 70 miles north of Anchorage. I split my time between there and the office on my boat in Seward Alaska (I am a ocean powerboating /fishing addict ).

I also have a warehouse in Mcallan Texas down the street from Asco’s main warehouse. My clients are nationwide, and throughout the Carribean. I have current projects going on in all four quadrants of the country.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

ksanders said:


> Nice background, I’m sure we can share info, and pick up tidbits from each other.
> 
> Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct. :smile:
> 
> ...


I used to travel in Alaska before so I know it is a nice area.

I want to say thanks for posting that and I know few members here for very long time. and yes I do work in all level of electrical service and just the other day I done repair the transfer switch ( snake got inside of it ) 

But yes there is one more oddball system is the true Two phase system I been there with that one and that is pretty much history in most area.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

brian john said:


> Second, you came in here and questions others professionalism, so if I seem a tad testy, sorry.


Seems to happen with most new members myself included



ksanders said:


> I’m sure we can share info, and pick up tidbits from each other. If you read more than post for the first year here the knowledge you'll gain will be well worth it
> 
> Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct. :smile:


Welcome to the forum, there are members here that are more knowledgable than you can imagine from general electrical stuff to highly specialized stuff. Always nice to add to the collection.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ksanders said:


> Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct.


I was testy.

I’m in Southcentral Alaska as a base. We are in Big Lake, about 70 miles north of Anchorage. I split my time between there and the office on my boat in Seward Alaska (I am an ocean powerboating /fishing addict ).
y.[/QUOTE]

I was born in Anchorage but left at 3, I have been back a few times most recently in May spent 2-1/2 weeks just driving around, the state. Anchorage to Cold Foot, down to Glen Allen, Valdez, Wasilla down to Seward and Homer. Not a cruise kind of guy, we may return next summer still debating. 

My sister lived in Point Hope for 10 years


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## MDB1988 (Nov 13, 2017)

Hoping to get back to this next week after getting stalled on this problem. Decision from up top was to go ahead and install what we have since there's no budget to do anything else. If the ATS has problems with the voltage then we're just going to have to run it manually. Not ideal but whatever.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MDB1988 said:


> Hoping to get back to this next week after getting stalled on this problem. Decision from up top was to go ahead and install what we have since there's no budget to do anything else. If the ATS has problems with the voltage then we're just going to have to run it manually. Not ideal but whatever.


It should be just fine.
Please let us know how it turns out.
Oh and,
Pics please.:smile:


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