# Getting kicked out of the IBEW , should I leave the trade ?



## gpop

You need to work on your attitude. None of us are perfect and we all screw up the difference is we do it with confidence and we never admit defeat. 

"I tried my best but its hard for me to learn and pick things up" verse's "Op's ****ed that one, hand me another stick cause im going to get this even if we have to waste the whole pile".

The " its hard for me " is very hard to deal with and makes training a nightmare (honestly what are we meant to do.....give you a cuddle and say that's ok). If your willing to except defeat then there is no reason to training you.
The " Op's " guy is a dumb arse and im going to have to show that idiot before he wastes all the conduit or gets pissed and breaks the bender. Either way im stuck with him as hes not quitting so better spend some time on training.


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## MHElectric

This is a good trade. If you enjoy it, stay with it.


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## SandyEggoCub

gpop said:


> You need to work on your attitude. None of us are perfect and we all screw up the difference is we do it with confidence and we never admit defeat.
> 
> "I tried my best but its hard for me to learn and pick things up" verse's "Op's ****ed that one, hand me another stick cause im going to get this even if we have to waste the whole pile".
> 
> The " its hard for me " is very hard to deal with and makes training a nightmare (honestly what are we meant to do.....give you a cuddle and say that's ok). If your willing to except defeat then there is no reason to training you.
> The " Op's " guy is a dumb arse and im going to have to show that idiot before he wastes all the conduit or gets pissed and breaks the bender. Either way im stuck with him as hes not quitting so better spend some time on training.


I know that. I’m just not sure what to do now because my mistakes are gonna get me kicked out. I can fall 7 times and get back up 8 but it doesn’t change the fact I can’t grasp stuff quickly enough.

I’m trying as hard as I can and got back on adhd meds which help a lot but it looks like it was already too late and isn’t enough.

My issue is if drug addicts and cokeheads can do well even enough though they show up to work ****ed up and I can’t , what does that say about my intelligence?

Sure the school isn’t probably ran the best but while plenty of people had to tutor they still passed. I didn’t. There has to some personal accountability in my actual lack of skills or brains.

if I can’t do this what the hell can I do ? “Hustle” ? That’s about all I can think

I don’t have negative outlook because I ****ed up once, I have a negative outlook because I keep making mistakes and they all count against you.

Usually when I think I’m doing well and have a confident attitude it’s actually the complete opposite. My lay off proved that.

also they don’t let you use the whole pile of pipe at school lol. You get one or two pieces a day because that’s all you get during the test.


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## SandyEggoCub

MHElectric said:


> This is a good trade. If you enjoy it, stay with it.


How am I even gonna find employment now though ? Who would even hire someone who got kicked out of the IBEW for bad performance or a “unsatisfactory probation period” ?

It’s gonna be hard to make a living wage when I get the experience and make jman now too. 

I’ll be remembered for not hacking it in the union by my Super and would probably cap out at 25/$hr 

Being kicked out of 5 year program like the IBEW would pretty much black list you. Other areas might not be as anti union but I know berg definitely won’t hire me.


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## gpop

SandyEggoCub said:


> I know that. I’m just not sure what to do now because my mistakes are gonna get me kicked out. I can fall 7 times and get back up 8 but it doesn’t change the fact I can’t grasp stuff quickly enough.
> 
> I’m trying as hard as I can and got back on adhd meds which help a lot but it looks like it was already too late and isn’t enough.
> 
> My issue is if drug addicts and cokeheads can do well even enough though they show up to work ****ed up and I can’t , what does that say about my intelligence?
> 
> Sure the school isn’t probably ran the best but while plenty of people had to tutor they still passed. I didn’t. There has to some personal accountability in my actual lack of skills or brains.
> 
> if I can’t do this what the hell can I do ? “Hustle” ? That’s about all I can think
> 
> I don’t have negative outlook because I ****ed up once, I have a negative outlook because I keep making mistakes and they all count against you.
> 
> Usually when I think I’m doing well and have a confident attitude it’s actually the complete opposite. My lay off proved that.
> 
> also they don’t let you use the whole pile of pipe at school lol. You get one or two pieces a day because that’s all you get during the test.


We are here to help you, Google is here to help you, youtube is here to help you. So lets start with "whats the problem".


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## MHElectric

SandyEggoCub said:


> How am I even gonna find employment now though ? Who would even hire someone who got kicked out of the IBEW for bad performance or a “unsatisfactory probation period” ?
> 
> It’s gonna be hard to make a living wage when I get the experience and make jman now too.
> 
> I’ll be remembered for not hacking it in the union by my Super and would probably cap out at 25/$hr
> 
> Being kicked out of 5 year program like the IBEW would pretty much black list you. Other areas might not be as anti union but I know berg definitely won’t hire me.


Bro. Chill.

The only people who would care about something silly like that are union people. Nobody else.

You realize there’s a whole world of contractors out there that are looking for good hardworking electricians and apprentices, right? Doesn’t matter what kind of work you do - commercial, residential, controls, fire alarm, whatever. As long as you can show up on time, work hard and not cause problems, your good. Honestly, contractors just need people to show up every day and work. There’s a huge shortage of workers.

Take a little advice and just cool off for a minute. This will pass, life will go on and the tomorrow will be a new day. If you like doing electrical work, then go find another electrical job. THEY ARE OUT THERE!

Good luck dude.


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## mburtis

Are there places that are so union heavy that a person literally can't find a position in the trade outside the union?

Maybe if fast paced construction ain't your gig look into shifting your focus. It's a big trade with a lot of specialties. There are a whole lot of electrician jobs that don't revolve around bending pipe and pulling wire. Maybe you just need a little different focus for it to click.


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## ohm it hertz

The IBEW is not the be all end all of the electrical trades just because you're not the first born son of somebody's uncle's cousin. So you're not a fast gopher or picking up skills that took those guys years to learn - so what? I hear of businesses around here paying $40/hr CASH and they _still _can't keep workers beyond a week. If you're serious about working and finding work, it will probably find you first. There are _plenty _of overbooked businesses screaming for entry level labor (and skilled labor too). 

Don't sweat what the angry Union guys say about you, but don't let them be right. Prove em wrong.


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## SandyEggoCub

mburtis said:


> Are there places that are so union heavy that a person literally can't find a position in the trade outside the union?
> 
> Maybe if fast paced construction ain't your gig look into shifting your focus. It's a big trade with a lot of specialties. There are a whole lot of electrician jobs that don't revolve around bending pipe and pulling wire. Maybe you just need a little different focus for it to click.


No it’s kinda the opposite in San Diego.

The IBEW here has low market share (it’s growing a lot though) but I don’t trust a merit shop to ever give me a raise or more than 13/$hr if I tell them the union axed me.

I’d rather make up a temporary life debilitating injury if I go back the non union route.

As far as union the way I see it … I might , just might , get a second chance at another JATC that knows how our hall is , how much scrunity you’re under here and is busy beyond belief with good market share.

The ones that immediately come to mind are Seattle , Portland , Chicago , St Louis.

If I explain to them I have my difficulties , I learn a little slow but know where my issue lies (ADHD , inattentiveness and forgetfulness ), ive gotten alot better, I’m managing it and I work hard they might give me a shot. They might admire I won’t quit. I would probably go to Seattle because I have my sister there and it wouldn’t be a bad idea to talk to the TD before hand.

Being readmitted or re accepted again at San Diego is extremely unlikely even though we’re busy.

If my apprenticeship contract was just suspended (usually what they do unless you completely **** up) it’s suck major ass but I could endure it. Since I’m on probation they can completely terminate my apprenticeship with the state of CA DOL very easily.

It’s laid out and explained in the contract we sign at orientation which I definately kept for reference.

As for a different area of the field I’m definitely gonna look into that too but I love the trade culture too much to work a typical corporate white collar job where you constantly walk on egg shells.


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## mburtis

I wasn't talking white collar stuff I was talking like industrial maintenance or heck even low voltage controls or networks. Those guys won't give a rats ass about what the union thinks.


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## CAUSA

What I’m going to say/write Is not to sound preachy, or disrespectful.

1: in any learning environment it is 100% the responsibility of the student to learn the material. No matter how good or bad the instructor is.
This being said: learn from fellow students, to network with the peers last a lifetime for potential employment leads and comradeship.

2: Turn your weekness in to your strengths.
Your know you have a learning disability, so only you can break the chain internally. This is hard I know. It took 10 years to correct the visual representation of the letters d and b orientation when I was in school. But that was my cross to carve out and overcome.

you need to start small and take all emotional view, out of the situation. The body will adapt. You live in it. You have to push yourself, internally to be the best version of yourself. Mastery of oneself is a never ending battle. Anyone who says they won, is only lying to themselves.

3: so projects and practices with hands on can be done anywhere. Depending on how you look at it.
Example: bending pipe!
The math involved to calculating the offset or rolling offset. Keep it simple. Better to understand the concept first. Then learn the reason for the math. This will make the learning better.
Pipe is pipe. You do not need to have the actual size to start. A straw and a bearing chase to get the angles on a desk is more valuable. To learn how the deformed sections happens to the pipe during bending and how to prevent the deformed from happening. With still keeping the angles. Or use 1/4 copper soft drawn for more stiffness. You can make the degree marks on the used bearings chase ( inside section). The options are endless. Depending on how you look at it.

4:the public library in you area. This hopefully is still open. Is a vast resource for you to learn.

5: patience: you will only get out, what you put into it.

6: life is 10% of how you make it and 90% how you take it!

7: dietary restrictions: keep it simple. Poor food choices leads to poor body resources. This means if you cannot control/concentrate. Can not learn properly.

8: above all: do not be your worst enemy.
Like the rest has said. There are other areas in this trade. There are other trades.

9: money is a game: learn how to play it. Example take the dollar in your country. Is it really worth a dollar?

the paper? The ink? The labour to make it. Take it to another country and it could be worth more than a dollar.
This I will stop here. For this is another post. But you should get the idea now.

it is up to you. There is always another area or employer. You just have to look and keep moving forward. And KEEP learning and improving no matter how old you get!!!!!!!!


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## SandyEggoCub

mburtis said:


> I wasn't talking white collar stuff I was talking like industrial maintenance or heck even low voltage controls or networks. Those guys won't give a rats ass about what the union thinks.


I’m confused

Industrial work is one of the main sectors and inside wireman can do anything

Most industrial and control/plc work is union from what I see , they choose the ibew for that because why pay a higher wage to someone who might not be as well trained as a IBEW wireman

I heard low volt is kinda boring but I know you don’t make enough to live on it , not outside the union from my understanding. You’ll make a couple bucks above minimum wage and probably be homeless the rest of your life on pay like that.

in the union they make 35/$hr here.

I worked resi two months before working non union commercial and it’s a race to the bottom.

the guy I worked for payed everyone minimum wage and if you owned a pickup you’re doing CED runs all day.


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## matt1124

Being in a right to work state, I barely know the difference between book 1 and book 2. We have a local and they are so desperate they send out post cards to all the apprentices inviting them to open houses and starting pay with benefits at $34.50 right on the post card. 

I never hired anyone from there, I know a couple sharp guys that are union, but I _have_ hired from the IATSE local and those jokers couldn’t figure out anything except when break was. 

Based on those two things, what do I care what the union thinks of someone being able to do their schooling program or work hard enough in the sun without bottles of water handy (btw, wtf on the water?)

Based on my recent hiring experiences, just the fact that you are considering a career past payday Friday and asking other sparks for advice I’d put a bender in your hands.


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## mburtis

I obviously have no idea what it's like in your area. Maybe everything is union, I also have no idea about contractor type work. As far as in house industrial maintenance most of the circles I follow don't seem to be union, hell most don't even have licenses and don't need one because a code book don't teach troubleshooting.


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## wiz1997

SandyEggoCub said:


> I’m confused
> 
> Industrial work is one of the main sectors and inside wireman can do anything
> 
> Most industrial and control/plc work is union from what I see , they choose the ibew for that because why pay a higher wage to someone who might not be as well trained as a IBEW wireman
> 
> I heard low volt is kinda boring but I know you don’t make enough to live on it , not outside the union from my understanding. You’ll make a couple bucks above minimum wage and probably be homeless the rest of your life on pay like that.
> 
> in the union they make 35/$hr here.
> 
> I worked resi two months before working non union commercial and it’s a race to the bottom.
> 
> the guy I worked for payed everyone minimum wage and if you owned a pickup you’re doing CED runs all day.


I see why you're confused.

You have fallen for the "best electricians are union" and you understand nothing about the real world.

I was there when I was young.

As I grew and learned I found out they were wrong.


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## SandyEggoCub

wiz1997 said:


> I see why you're confused.
> 
> You have fallen for the "best electricians are union" and you understand nothing about the real world.
> 
> I was there when I was young.
> 
> As I grew and learned I found out they were wrong.


How would I get into something like that vs regular commercial and does it tend to pay more than commercial electricians/journeyman in your area ?

I’ve never seen a ad for more than 35/$hr for a electrician in San Diego. Doesnt matter what you’re doing.


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## gpop

SandyEggoCub said:


> How would I get into something like that vs regular commercial and does it tend to pay more than commercial electricians/journeyman in your area ?
> 
> I’ve never seen a ad for more than 35/$hr for a electrician in San Diego. Doesnt matter what you’re doing.



Job titles change as you gain more skills in industrial. 
Try a search for controls tech that's a industrial electrician that's got lazy and will use his brain as he no longer wishes to do any physical work, instrument tech which is basically a controls tech that likes to be treated like a princess or scada tech which is a instrument tech that doesn't like to work with his hands anymore. 
Basically if you are willing to use your head and learn, then the less you do the more you get payed.


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## mburtis

gpop said:


> Job titles change as you gain more skills in industrial.
> Try a search for controls tech that's a industrial electrician that's got lazy and will use his brain as he no longer wishes to do any physical work, instrument tech which is basically a controls tech that likes to be treated like a princess or scada tech which is a instrument tech that doesn't like to work with his hands anymore.
> Basically if you are willing to use your head and learn, then the less you do the more you get payed.


Easy now, a combination of those 3 job titles is what I'm gunning for.


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## gpop

mburtis said:


> Easy now, a combination of those 3 job titles is what I'm gunning for.


Careful its a long bumpy road and one minor slip up and you will end up in management.


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## mburtis

gpop said:


> Careful its a long bumpy road and one minor slip up and you will end up in management.


Meh I call out the stupid ideas too loudly for the city hall folk to want to spend much time around me, so I think I'm safe from management.


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## 205490

When you're uncomfortable you're learning, when comfortable you're not.
Cast a wide net, apply to many places, there's lots of work. Try LinkedIn, craigslist, indeed, simply hired etc. Get some gig work & bounce around as you find your niche.
Stick with it, it's the end of boomers, you'll have a lifetime of work.


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## splatz

mburtis said:


> I obviously have no idea what it's like in your area.


I don't think the OP does either.


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## Buck Parrish Electric

SandyEggoCub said:


> Well recently I got laid off and started at another company.
> 
> Long story short it was only 3 weeks between my last eval and the time I got laid off with a bad one due to being out with testing positive for covid.
> 
> The first one was fine and just said I needed to improve on some stuff but my work ethic and attitude is good. I take a lot of initiative too and get everything ready in the morning and don’t need to be told to start something.
> 
> Well I guess either my journeyman got pissed of at me or something or I just have no self awareness because I was laid off towards the end of January.
> 
> Its odd because he said I was actually already improving a lot and even put that in my notes for my first evaluation.
> 
> Now I get to go in front of the board again after failing a section of the hands on final and now I got a bad eval. I’m definitely getting kicked out. Even the training director said that.
> 
> I think my Jman was probably betting on me getting kicked out for the schooling because I got sick a few days before I was supposed to go in front of the JATC board ( did a zoom meeting ) and after the doctor cleared me on my first day back he asked if I got kicked out or not.
> 
> 4 days later I’m laid off from one of the biggest contractors out of my hall and my eval reads like I’m a useless idiot.
> 
> I’m starting to think the union where I’m at is wayyyy too fast paced for me. I never had issues like this when I was non union.
> 
> I never even saw the eval itself but when I asked for feedback because I genuinely felt more focused and more organized I got kinda shrugged off by him.
> 
> At the contractor I’ve been at now for almost a month I don’t even bother to ask. I don’t trust anyone to be honest anymore.
> 
> As for the schooling there’s always tutoring which I did plenty of but I wanted to take it a step further and build my own board for the pipe bending but just didn’t have 200-300$ it would’ve cost me in materials and conduit.
> 
> I’m trying to survive on 20/$hr in costal california. I don’t have a pot to piss in or any support system at all but 100% agree that I should’ve done that if I could and money allowed.
> 
> Anyway as a 1-1 I’m supposed to be the new lead on my current job in 2 months if I’m not already out by then and showing/laying out 3-5 more apprentices for a whole year.
> 
> Our foreman comes and helps us every now and then but he also does a lot typical foreman stuff too.
> 
> I feel like this is a lot of scrutiny and way more than I expected. I can’t do something once or twice and be good as a journeyman or foreman at it. I just can’t but that seems to be the expectation from the guys I’ve worked under.
> 
> The schools no better because we have to learn way too much and way too quickly in lab so after you’re shown once you don’t even go over it again in class. After that it’s on you or you can come to tutoring. The teachers who do the tutoring don’t really help and are just there for the money usually but sometimes the actual instructor will come in.
> 
> It’s not an impossible program by any means but you have to learn really fast and work very very quickly a lot of the time.
> 
> I’ve already had a few trashy things told to me by some people like being told to wait another hour until break to get water when we’re out in the sun all day doing underground ( a GF told me that) but WE. I just keep my mouth shut.
> 
> I knew what came with the territory with local 569 but I didn’t expect it to be this tough even as a first year.
> 
> I cant really tell if I’m just too ******/ learn too slow or I’m better off out of a better hall where I’m given a chance to actually learn at a more realistic and steady pace.
> 
> What should I do when I’m kicked out ?
> Leave the trade entirely ? It will be hard to get a non union job and explain a 8 month gap
> 
> 
> I’ll either be told **** off or laughed at and offered bare minimum wage. Not sure if being honest is the right move.
> 
> 
> Thanks for putting all the spaces in. You may have a career in technical writing
> 
> But really- If it were me and I was un-happy. I'd move on and keep moving until I found a place where I fit well and was appreciated. You don't need to stay union to have a good electrical career. There are plenty of people hiring.
> 
> 
> Anyway , any advice appreciated guys. Thanks.


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## Vladaar

If you're miserable there, find another job.

If you're passionate about it show it to them or find a private electrical business to work for outside the union.


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## splatz

It's a lot to unpack in that post but bottom line I don't think it's nearly as bleak as you're painting it. 

Number one, it sounds like a lot of the statements you're making are half true or less. There is no blacklist. You won't be making minimum wage. As a result, I can't separate where you just have your head up your ass, and where you actually have trouble. 

Me, I'd do what I could to stay in the program, and I'd confront the problem directly. If you think you're going to get the boot, tell them you're concerned ask what you can do to change their mind. If there's even a 1% chance it would change their mind, do that. 

If you feel like someone's not giving you a fair shake, maybe go over their head and ask them what you can do to stay in the program. 

If you get the boot, don't be ridiculous, there are a zillion alterntives, many of them good alternatives. Life is not always fair but this one, it just isn't the end of the world, it's not.


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## Wirenuting

SandyEggoCub said:


> My issue is if drug addicts and cokeheads can do well even enough though they show up to work ****ed up and I can’t , what does that say about my intelligence?
> 
> I’m just not sure what to do now


Every is good at something.

Figure out what you are good at and go do it.

Myself, I suck at making donuts, but by god I’m good at eating them.


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## 205490

"The man who makes no mistakes is the man who does nothing"

As I sit here posting LOL, gosh it's easy to give advice, I wish I could take my own advice 🙄


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## MHElectric

CA C-10 said:


> "The man who makes no mistakes is the man who does nothing"
> 
> As I sit here posting LOL, gosh it's easy to give advice, I wish I could take my own advice 🙄


I just turned 40. I wish I could have changed a bunch of things I did around 20. And I’m sure when I turn 60 I’ll be saying the same thing about right now. Lol.

You live. You learn. That’s all you can do.


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## Wirenuting

MHElectric said:


> I just turned 40. I wish I could have changed a bunch of things I did around 20. And I’m sure when I turn 60 I’ll be saying the same thing about right now. Lol.
> 
> You live. You learn. That’s all you can do.


Darn, I though you were way older then me.


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## MHElectric

Wirenuting said:


> Darn, I though you were way older then me.


How do I give a post a thumbs down?


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## Almost Retired

MHElectric said:


> How do I give a post a thumbs down?



hit reply
about the middle of the tool bar below is the smilies click on it


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## SWDweller

After rereading your post I feel like there is a underlying issue which you do not state.

Your posts are all over the map. Stating that LV is boring is the mark of an uninformed person. Does this attitude transfer into the rest of your work ethic?

I get the sense you expect something to be GIVEN to you. If you think the trade is going to
bow down and GIVE you respect your sadly mistaken. You do not state how long you have been in the trade, nor do you say if your always 15 minutes early to work and 5 minutes late in leaving. I worked for a large union contractor and was always the last one to the gang box. 30% of the time I was asked to stay over and finish some job that the JW's had walked away from. 4-6 hours a week overtime sure helped with the expenses. With out showing a spark of wanting to learn you will not be treated very well. Getting the class room stuff down and correct is your responsibility. NO ONE ELSE'S! You state that some of the classroom stuff has passed you by. WHAT did you do about it? Did you seek and find more help? One of the reasons the material is gone through so fast is to weed out the ones who are not going to take the bull by the horns and learn on their own. I spent many years (almost 8) paying for every class I could find to be better than the next guy I was working with. In time it paid off.
I still take classes when I can

There is still a lot that I do not know about a lot of subjects in the electrical trade even after 50 years. I do know how to find the answers. When presented with unknowns I go to where the knowledge base is and learn what I need to know.

I hate to judge on one post but I would put you in the Millennial Category. You want it given to you. Sorry dude not going to happen unless you go to work for family.


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## Wardenclyffe

10 signs you should probably quit your job


The New Year might mean it’s time for a new job.




www.foxbusiness.com


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## 205490

Wardenclyffe said:


> 10 signs you should probably quit your job
> 
> 
> The New Year might mean it’s time for a new job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxbusiness.com


Well I'm learning more, idk if op is, thanks for sharing.


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## HertzHound

And make sure to buy a small water jug. Keep it near you when working outside in the southern California sun.


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## SandyEggoCub

SWDweller said:


> After rereading your post I feel like there is a underlying issue which you do not state.
> 
> Your posts are all over the map. Stating that LV is boring is the mark of an uninformed person. Does this attitude transfer into the rest of your work ethic?
> 
> I get the sense you expect something to be GIVEN to you. If you think the trade is going to
> bow down and GIVE you respect your sadly mistaken. You do not state how long you have been in the trade, nor do you say if your always 15 minutes early to work and 5 minutes late in leaving. I worked for a large union contractor and was always the last one to the gang box. 30% of the time I was asked to stay over and finish some job that the JW's had walked away from. 4-6 hours a week overtime sure helped with the expenses. With out showing a spark of wanting to learn you will not be treated very well. Getting the class room stuff down and correct is your responsibility. NO ONE ELSE'S! You state that some of the classroom stuff has passed you by. WHAT did you do about it? Did you seek and find more help? One of the reasons the material is gone through so fast is to weed out the ones who are not going to take the bull by the horns and learn on their own. I spent many years (almost 8) paying for every class I could find to be better than the next guy I was working with. In time it paid off.
> I still take classes when I can
> 
> There is still a lot that I do not know about a lot of subjects in the electrical trade even after 50 years. I do know how to find the answers. When presented with unknowns I go to where the knowledge base is and learn what I need to know.
> 
> I hate to judge on one post but I would put you in the Millennial Category. You want it given to you. Sorry dude not going to happen unless you go to work for family.





Typical boomer throwing the lazy thing and hoping it sticks. Strong bias.

sorry doesn’t work in this case.

1. It takes 2-3 years to get accepted in San Diego on average , it’s one of the hardest areas to get into the IW program in the country. Period. No question. I wouldn’t be here at all if I didn’t want to.

2. I started electrical at a cheap residential shop making 15/$hr practically paying to go to work because I was running around picking things up from CED or Home Depot and getting 55c a mile for my Ford truck. All I could afford was gas , very little food and tools. That’s it. I was homeless too. The guy didn’t even want to pay me that , he wanted to pay me minimum wage because he had guys with 10+ years of experience working for minimum wage.

I already had experience from another c10 but it was mostly trace digging , doing some civil stuff and then helping out the electricians.


I was so ****ing ecstatic when that commercial non union shop took me on after 2 months at that trash residential shop. I still put up with it just so I could get my foot in the door in the trade , I didn’t care I didn’t make enough to even survive and still had a good work ethic. I always thanked him for hiring me so I can learn the trade.

I worked at my non union commercial shop 10 months until I was able to get my 2nd interview with the union and I started with the IBEW back in July.

All together I have a little over 18 months in the trade.

3. I already covered the schooling in my post. I went to tutoring 7 out of the 9 weeks after I realized how fast paced it was for pipe bending. I always sacrificed my Friday night because my apprenticeship comes first.

80% of the class was signing up for tutoring and struggled with the pipe bending and wiring board. The fact I didn’t pass though needs some personal accountability because most people did.

4. I already covered punctuality. I have no idea what makes you think I don’t take the initiative when I clearly stated my journeyman commented on that and really liked it and even included it in the first eval.

I would get there early , open all the gang boxes and the connex after signing in on the dot then get straight to work. Everyone else smokes for 30 minutes before they start. It’s the same thing with breaks. They’d relax for a extra 10-15 minutes until the lead tells them get back to work. I know my ****ing place even though there was another 1-2 who would do the same as the jmen and 5th years with the breaks and late start time.

On my very first job my first foreman was a good guy and got so pissed off when he saw how regularly I had to go back and take all the power tools off everyone’s lifts, clean up their mess and lock everything up when the crew would just run out.

id stay an extra 15-30 minutes after work almost daily on that job. I never bitched about it. My foreman would walk the job after everyone left and tell me “you don’t have to stay and clean up their mess brother , you can leave”. I never got OT for it either. I did it because I knew my ****ing place.

Him and a high level CE finally had enough and the foreman said if he sees that **** again he’s laying people off for it during sign in.

I’m not whining , I posted here asking for help because im giving so much only to be slipping up or not good enough and it’s making me miserable and beyond stressed. I want advice from other people in the trade or know if I should even continue. I question my intellect a lot now. 

Don’t even get me started about how hard we work. I saw how easily people are kicked back to the hall on that first job and that foreman took the brotherhood stuff seriously and looked out for us. He was a good dude.

I know I can be inattentive and I had to stop taking my ADHD meds because I had to wait for the union insurance to kick in. The meds themselves aren’t even covered but I sure as hell could not afford the psych visits out of pocket.

It was all in vain in the end it seems. I pay out the ass for my generic adderall.

Sorry but your “bitchy millennial” doesn’t work in this case. The trade owes me nothing. I’m here to earn it. I busted ass just for the little I’ve gotten and to be here.

By low voltage work I assume you meant data and communications or FA. The people who do that don’t make **** here and even the union sound guys I’ve met admitted it’s kinda boring but usually cake for the money.

If splicing/terminating 120/208v counts as LV work then I had no idea that was the case and don’t see how it would be any different than higher voltage. Construction is construction ?


----------



## gpop

Teaching one my trainee how to bend pipe today.
Started him on the 2" pvc coated aluminum after showing him it cost $21 dollars a foot. Funny watching him measure everything 5 times before he dare bend it. Even funnier watching how many times he dropped the level because it wont stick to the pipe.


----------



## MHElectric

That’s an interesting story. 

Just so you know, everyone in this line of work has a similar story to that. Some may be worse, some may be better. But we all went through a time where we weren’t making much money, living in a dumpy trailer, smoking cheap cigarettes, going through a divorce, eating nothing but frozen burritos & ramen. Been there. Done that. Its just life. Especially in your early-mid 20’s.

Now, hold on for one second and listen to everyone. Most guys here are trying to tell you to just relax and keep looking for another job. You dont have to just work union to make good money. You dont have to just do commercial or industrial to make good money. Your not going to be homeless because you had to do telecommunications work or residential jobs. There’s millions of guys that do this work and live just fine.

Find a company that is hiring. Manage your money according. Live below your means. This is just a faze in life that everyone goes through.


----------



## Wirenuting

SandyEggoCub said:


> Typical boomer throwing the lazy thing and hoping it sticks. Strong bias.


Congratulations 
Referring to someone as a “Boomer” is considered discriminatory here. You just earned yourself 2 weeks on the beach. 
Oh wait, your still a probationary employee. 
You might find yourself kicking a can down the beach.


----------



## SandyEggoCub

MHElectric said:


> That’s an interesting story.
> 
> Just so you know, everyone in this line of work has a similar story to that. Some may be worse, some may be better. But we all went through a time where we weren’t making much money, living in a dumpy trailer, smoking cheap cigarettes, going through a divorce, eating nothing but frozen burritos & ramen. Been there. Done that. Its just life. Especially in your early-mid 20’s.
> 
> Now, hold on for one second and listen to everyone. Most guys here are trying to tell you to just relax and keep looking for another job. You dont have to just work union to make good money. You dont have to just do commercial or industrial to make good money. Your not going to be homeless because you had to do telecommunications work or residential jobs. There’s millions of guys that do this work and live just fine.
> 
> Find a company that is hiring. Manage your money according. Live below your means. This is just a faze in life that everyone goes through.


I got a little irritated that someone made the baseless assumption : “ you’re leaving something out or not trying”.

My life has been a wild ride and it’s a little rougher than you probably think but I don’t believe in bitching. No one here needs to know my life story.

If someone told me that in person after seeing me work or knowing me that’s one thing but just because this dude hates young people and assumes they show up to the jobsite with a hammock to sleep in all day or just watch their journeyman work all day doesn’t mean it’s true.

I found out today that our other apprentice is going on vacation Monday and we have a guy out with covid so I get to be the lead on-site even sooner than expected. The foreman’s not happy about it and told me he’s counting on me to teach 3 other apprentices….. as a 1st year 2nd period lol.

I’m glad it’s just deckwork but man , pretty much being a lead like a Jman is gonna suck since I’m just now getting familiar with this job.

He wanted to give me 2-3 months before I was the new lead but either way , that’s a ton of stress for a first year.

Not sure what to even say to that.


----------



## SandyEggoCub

Wirenuting said:


> Congratulations
> Referring to someone as a “Boomer” is considered discriminatory here. You just earned yourself 2 weeks on the beach.
> Oh wait, your still a probationary employee.
> You might find yourself kicking a can down the beach.


Because he’s totally right man

I’m just lazy

I tie my hammock up and sleep all day at work

sometimes just watch my Jman work

(Sarcasm obviously )

sounds like a one way street too

millennial isnt discriminatory but boomer is ?


----------



## Wirenuting

SandyEggoCub said:


> Because he’s totally right man
> 
> I’m just lazy
> 
> I tie my hammock up and sleep all day at work
> 
> sometimes just watch my Jman work
> 
> (Sarcasm obviously )


Shoot, you would fit right in here with some of my co-workers. 
Never let a day job get in the way of night life.

But truthfully, my statement of on the beach holds true as is the being cut loose. 
Seems Boomer is a new word for discrimination and can be cause for termination. It’s under age discrimination section.


----------



## MHElectric

SandyEggoCub said:


> I got a little irritated that someone made the baseless assumption : “ you’re leaving something out or not trying”.
> 
> My life has been a wild ride and it’s a little rougher than you probably think but I don’t believe in bitching. No one here needs to know my life story.
> 
> If someone told me that in person after seeing me work or knowing me that’s one thing but just because this dude hates young people and assumes they show up to the jobsite with a hammock to sleep in all day or just watch their journeyman work all day doesn’t mean it’s true.
> 
> I found out today that our other apprentice is going on vacation Monday and we have a guy out with covid so I get to be the lead on-site even sooner than expected. The foreman’s not happy about it and told me he’s counting on me to teach 3 other apprentices….. as a 1st year 2nd period lol.
> 
> I’m glad it’s just deckwork but man , pretty much being a lead like a Jman is gonna suck since I’m just now getting familiar with this job.
> 
> He wanted to give me 2-3 months before I was the new lead but either way , that’s a ton of stress for a first year.
> 
> Not sure what to even say to that.


Just chill out man. It’s gonna be fine. As long as you are hard working and you show up to work every day, it’ll all work out. Whether at your current employer or some where else.

That’s all we’re trying to say.


----------



## CAUSA

SandyEggoCub said:


> Because he’s totally right man
> 
> I’m just lazy
> 
> I tie my hammock up and sleep all day at work
> 
> sometimes just watch my Jman work
> 
> (Sarcasm obviously )
> 
> sounds like a one way street too
> 
> millennial isnt discriminatory but boomer is ?


re-read post #8

line item #8, your doing it. And you do not realize it.

At least you never know what it’s like to have no canteen, when you pace 4 wall’s biding your time.


----------



## mburtis

I don't understand... your worried about being sent packing but your going to be lead on a site. Who puts the dink that can't do anything in charge? Seems like you may be worried over nothing...


----------



## SandyEggoCub

mburtis said:


> I don't understand... your worried about being sent packing but your going to be lead on a site. Who puts the dink that can't do anything in charge? Seems like you may be worried over nothing...


trashy contractors who are too cheap to put calls in for journeymen? Happens all the time in 569

I’m at a different contractor now though

They don’t know what I don’t tell them


----------



## Almost Retired

Have you ever considered moving to another area to find work ?


----------



## kb1jb1

This is a long and confusing thread for me. The only thing I got out of it is, Wirenuting is bad at making donuts but good at eating them. I can relate to that and I am not even a policeman.
Is the OP saying he is a 2nd year apprentice and now he is a lead man? Someone could be on time and a very hard worker but from who's point of view? I know people who appear to work hard and sincerely believe they are but they were never taught the meaning of work or how to work. Sometimes the apprentice needs a crystal ball to figure out what he needs to do. There is a time to clean and organize and a time to get the JM the connectors he needs without asking. The apprentice is there to learn and make things quicker for the higher paid mechanics. Not easier but more efficient.


----------



## 205490

So bottom line
We are in biggest labor shortage in my lifetime, period, full stop.
There is so much opportunity in CA its ridiculous, seriously.


----------



## 205490

SandyEggoCub said:


> trashy contractors who are too cheap to put calls in for journeymen? Happens all the time in 569
> 
> I’m at a different contractor now though
> 
> They don’t know what I don’t tell them


"Trashy Contractors" lmfao!
The only problem your having is in your head.
Read "think & grow rich" by Napoleon Hill.
Learn the difference between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. Lashing out at people will get you nowhere. If blame is your game...look in the mirror.


----------



## MHElectric

I was 25 when something went off in my head and I realized I needed to get my crap together. It was like a light went off and realized all the stupid decisions I was making. Blaming others for all my problems, getting smashed 3-4 nights a week, treating those close to me like crap, spending every dollar I made instead of putting some away in savings, showing up to work stoned….. the list goes on, right? Everybody has their story.

Sometimes you gotta make a change. Nothing wrong with that. We’re all a work in progress.


----------



## 205490

MHElectric said:


> I was 25 when something went off in my head and I realized I needed to get my crap together. It was like a light went off and realized all the stupid decisions I was making. Blaming others for all my problems, getting smashed 3-4 nights a week, treating those close to me like crap, spending every dollar I made instead of putting some away in savings, showing up to work stoned….. the list goes on, right? Everybody has their story.
> 
> Sometimes you gotta make a change. Nothing wrong with that. We’re all a work in progress.


Sage advice there, & from a young guy!

"All I gotta do is just get out of my own way"
Hope the OP can learn from our mistakes 😊


----------



## Southeast Power

Please write a 10,000-word essay on your current situation.


----------



## Quickservice

SandyEggoCub said:


> How am I even gonna find employment now though ? Who would even hire someone who got kicked out of the IBEW for bad performance or a “unsatisfactory probation period” ?
> 
> It’s gonna be hard to make a living wage when I get the experience and make jman now too.
> 
> I’ll be remembered for not hacking it in the union by my Super and would probably cap out at 25/$hr
> 
> Being kicked out of 5 year program like the IBEW would pretty much black list you. Other areas might not be as anti union but I know berg definitely won’t hire me.


My son-in-law got kicked out of the IBEW for getting in a huge altercations with his job foreman. I'm not trying to defend my SIL, but the foreman does have a bad reputation around here. Soon after, the non-union guys rang his phone off the hook offering him a job. Of course, we are desperately short of qualified electricians in this area, that probably accounted for most of the calls.


----------



## oldsparky52

CA C-10 said:


> If blame is your game...look in the mirror.


^ THIS!


----------



## Southeast Power

I can promise you I have seen some **** go down. This one totally takes the cake for me though.

I was waiting out front of a truck stop back in the mid 80's. Sitting on a park bench with a guy that had a big Rottweiler kinda dog on a leash with him. I tried to make small talk but he was quite a sourpuss. So we sat in silence for a few minutes until the most unexpected thing I have ever seen, happened right before my very eyes.

While we were sitting there a big 18 wheeler pulls in without a trailer (bobtail) so he parks right up front like a normal car would. Inside the cab of the truck with the driver is a little monkey. The dance for the organ grinder kind. I think they are called Rhesus monkeys perhaps. Well the dog spots this lil monkey and proceeds to go apeshit over it. Lunging at the end of his leash and barking at the top of his lungs. Generally making a real spectacle of himself to say the least.

The driver is obviously upset, but not nearly as much as the monkey is. Actually upset may be the wrong adjective to use for the monkey though. In retrospect I think eagerly aggressive may be a more appropriate description for his disposition. He was pacing the dashboard back and forth. Never taking his eyes off of this very aggravating dog.

The driver opens his little triangle window that they don't make on cars anymore. The ones made for smokers back in the day. He yells out to this douche bag to call his dog off because it is upsetting his monkey. The guy laughs and says no way (I told you he was a jerk didn't I?). Says that his dog ain't bothering nobody. The dog hasn't shut up since he laid eyes on the monkey. I promise you he is bothering everybody for several blocks around.

Now here's where things start to get interesting. The driver says that if he doesn't call his dog off he's gonna let his monkey loose on that dog. Douche bag laughs and says that his dog would eat that monkey alive. Upon hearing this the driver leans over and reaches into his glove box I guess. Pulls out one of those tiny baseball bats like you used to get at Astroworld or carnivals, and places it in the monkeys hand. The monkey obviously knows what's about to go down because he is now trying to squeeze out of that little triangular window I mentioned earlier. This monkey has murder in his eyes if I have ever seen it. Driver hollers "Last chance to save your dog's ass man." In response douche bag lets his dog off of the leash. Now we have a situation that has escalated to the point where we have a dog jumping up at the window and a monkey screaming profanities right back at him. Well, the driver finally rolls down the regular window and out leaps all kinds of miniature primate hell. The dog never knew what hit him. Quick as a flash this monkey is riding on the back of this dog's neck. His two back feet all wrapped up in his neck fur with one hand hanging onto an ear. The other hand as you may have guessed by now is steadily and mercilessly raining down blows about this dog's head and face. I mean hard blows. You can hear them whap whap whap.

Well it only took a moment for the dog to realize he was in way over his head. He bolts yelping bloody murder as he runs away at full speed. I mean this dog is running so ****in hard he's throwing up tufts of grass and dirt as soon as he leaves pavement. The monkey still riding him and beating on him the whole time. Douche bag acts like he wants to fight now but several people including myself stepped in to stop that nonsense. In a couple of minutes or so the little monkey comes loping back with his little bat still in hand, and leaps up into the still open window of the truck to await his master who has gone on into the store.

That wanker ran off to try to go find his dog, but I don't know if he ever did. My ride showed up and I had to go. Never again in this lifetime will I see something so totally crazy and unexpected like that. I am both fortunate and humble to have been so privileged to be present for such an event.


----------



## SandyEggoCub

CA C-10 said:


> "Trashy Contractors" lmfao!
> The only problem your having is in your head.
> Read "think & grow rich" by Napoleon Hill.
> Learn the difference between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. Lashing out at people will get you nowhere. If blame is your game...look in the mirror.


I know mindset is everything. Trust me. I’m trying to find more confidence in my work and abilities but it’s hard when everytime I think I’m stressing out too much something else happens and I have to stress again like when I got laid off right after my JATC agreed to let me repeat the semester.

My current foreman thinks they gave me a bad evaluation because I either pissed someone off or they planned on doing it before I even saw the board because I failed the hands on class pipe bending.

The foreman said I’m doing really good so far even though it’s only been a month.

Most of these shops are cheap , they have first and second years running full crews at my current one. It all really depends on the foreman though. I’ve heard stories of 1-2nd year apprentices running small crews doing live and panel/LOTO work.

This happens all the time out of this hall. Word travels.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but most people say about 80% of our halls contractors are like this. There’s a few good mom and pop shops sprinkled around though.

Either way I’m gonna stick with the trade I think. If I’m doing well enough on this much more fast paced job then I’m probably fine.

Thanks for the support fellas.

Probably best to leave CA I think. I have nothing holding me here.


----------



## SandyEggoCub

kb1jb1 said:


> This is a long and confusing thread for me. The only thing I got out of it is, Wirenuting is bad at making donuts but good at eating them. I can relate to that and I am not even a policeman.
> Is the OP saying he is a 2nd year apprentice and now he is a lead man? Someone could be on time and a very hard worker but from who's point of view? I know people who appear to work hard and sincerely believe they are but they were never taught the meaning of work or how to work. Sometimes the apprentice needs a crystal ball to figure out what he needs to do. There is a time to clean and organize and a time to get the JM the connectors he needs without asking. The apprentice is there to learn and make things quicker for the higher paid mechanics. Not easier but more efficient.


I’m not a second year. The current apprentice we have is a second year , we have another one who’s out sick. 

I’m a 1-2 who failed pipe bending and right after the ibew let me do a repeat agreement I was laid off from my last contractor. I’m supposed to be the new lead on a 39 story building for the next year at my current contractor.

Honestly not as bad as some of the stuff one of the second year apprentices has had to do. Atleast the foreman is there to help.


----------



## Quickservice

Southeast Power said:


> I can promise you I have seen some **** go down. This one totally takes the cake for me though.
> 
> I was waiting out front of a truck stop back in the mid 80's. Sitting on a park bench with a guy that had a big Rottweiler kinda dog on a leash with him. I tried to make small talk but he was quite a sourpuss. So we sat in silence for a few minutes until the most unexpected thing I have ever seen, happened right before my very eyes.
> 
> While we were sitting there a big 18 wheeler pulls in without a trailer (bobtail) so he parks right up front like a normal car would. Inside the cab of the truck with the driver is a little monkey. The dance for the organ grinder kind. I think they are called Rhesus monkeys perhaps. Well the dog spots this lil monkey and proceeds to go apeshit over it. Lunging at the end of his leash and barking at the top of his lungs. Generally making a real spectacle of himself to say the least.
> 
> The driver is obviously upset, but not nearly as much as the monkey is. Actually upset may be the wrong adjective to use for the monkey though. In retrospect I think eagerly aggressive may be a more appropriate description for his disposition. He was pacing the dashboard back and forth. Never taking his eyes off of this very aggravating dog.
> 
> The driver opens his little triangle window that they don't make on cars anymore. The ones made for smokers back in the day. He yells out to this douche bag to call his dog off because it is upsetting his monkey. The guy laughs and says no way (I told you he was a jerk didn't I?). Says that his dog ain't bothering nobody. The dog hasn't shut up since he laid eyes on the monkey. I promise you he is bothering everybody for several blocks around.
> 
> Now here's where things start to get interesting. The driver says that if he doesn't call his dog off he's gonna let his monkey loose on that dog. Douche bag laughs and says that his dog would eat that monkey alive. Upon hearing this the driver leans over and reaches into his glove box I guess. Pulls out one of those tiny baseball bats like you used to get at Astroworld or carnivals, and places it in the monkeys hand. The monkey obviously knows what's about to go down because he is now trying to squeeze out of that little triangular window I mentioned earlier. This monkey has murder in his eyes if I have ever seen it. Driver hollers "Last chance to save your dog's ass man." In response douche bag lets his dog off of the leash. Now we have a situation that has escalated to the point where we have a dog jumping up at the window and a monkey screaming profanities right back at him. Well, the driver finally rolls down the regular window and out leaps all kinds of miniature primate hell. The dog never knew what hit him. Quick as a flash this monkey is riding on the back of this dog's neck. His two back feet all wrapped up in his neck fur with one hand hanging onto an ear. The other hand as you may have guessed by now is steadily and mercilessly raining down blows about this dog's head and face. I mean hard blows. You can hear them whap whap whap.
> 
> Well it only took a moment for the dog to realize he was in way over his head. He bolts yelping bloody murder as he runs away at full speed. I mean this dog is running so ****in hard he's throwing up tufts of grass and dirt as soon as he leaves pavement. The monkey still riding him and beating on him the whole time. Douche bag acts like he wants to fight now but several people including myself stepped in to stop that nonsense. In a couple of minutes or so the little monkey comes loping back with his little bat still in hand, and leaps up into the still open window of the truck to await his master who has gone on into the store.
> 
> That wanker ran off to try to go find his dog, but I don't know if he ever did. My ride showed up and I had to go. Never again in this lifetime will I see something so totally crazy and unexpected like that. I am both fortunate and humble to have been so privileged to be present for such an event.


WOW! I have read some incredible posts on ET, and I have no idea what it has to do with being kicked out of the IBEW, but this one had me laughing until I was crying! I have a feeling that this post could easily be spread all over the Internet.


----------



## SandyEggoCub

oldsparky52 said:


> ^ THIS!


If I did better in school I don’t think my last contractor would have laid me off in the first place so yes I should’ve got back on medication sooner before school started but I didn’t have the insurance yet. Not only would I have been paying 200+ out of pocket for medication but I’d be paying out of pocket for psych visits too.

I was supposed to be able to enroll after 90 days but the trust office delayed a lot of people’s paperwork in my class and I didn’t get mine until December.


----------



## Quickservice

CA C-10 said:


> So bottom line
> *We are in biggest labor shortage in my lifetime*, period, full stop.
> There is so much opportunity in CA its ridiculous, seriously.


Same here!!!!


----------



## SULLY103

ohm it hertz said:


> The IBEW is not the be all end all of the electrical trades just because you're not the first born son of somebody's uncle's cousin. So you're not a fast gopher or picking up skills that took those guys years to learn - so what? I hear of businesses around here paying $40/hr CASH and they _still _can't keep workers beyond a week. If you're serious about working and finding work, it will probably find you first. There are _plenty _of overbooked businesses screaming for entry level labor (and skilled labor too).
> 
> Don't sweat what the angry Union guys say about you, but don't let them be right. Prove em wrong.


your man "ohm it hertz" misses a big point, stick with the union, look him up in 20 years, no pension, still paying for health insurance. I'm an instructor at an IBEW apprenticeship. The kids who don't make it are the ones with the **** attitudes, not the dumb ones. we have a ton of kids come through here who aren't exactly rocket scientists, but they show up on time to work, to school, work hard and have a good attitude. And most of them aren't somebodies uncle's cousin. We do definitly cater to sons and daughters of members, just like every other industry in the world. If a company is paying big money, cash, and keep people, its probably because they suck. I find most guys like OIH dont like the union because they couldn't get in.


----------



## matt1124

I’m going to think of that monkey now every time I check the tires 🤣🤣


----------



## joe-nwt

Southeast Power said:


> I can promise you I have seen some **** go down. This one totally takes the cake for me though.
> 
> I was waiting out front of a truck stop back in the mid 80's. Sitting on a park bench with a guy that had a big Rottweiler kinda dog on a leash with him. I tried to make small talk but he was quite a sourpuss. So we sat in silence for a few minutes until the most unexpected thing I have ever seen, happened right before my very eyes.
> 
> While we were sitting there a big 18 wheeler pulls in without a trailer (bobtail) so he parks right up front like a normal car would. Inside the cab of the truck with the driver is a little monkey. The dance for the organ grinder kind. I think they are called Rhesus monkeys perhaps. Well the dog spots this lil monkey and proceeds to go apeshit over it. Lunging at the end of his leash and barking at the top of his lungs. Generally making a real spectacle of himself to say the least.
> 
> The driver is obviously upset, but not nearly as much as the monkey is. Actually upset may be the wrong adjective to use for the monkey though. In retrospect I think eagerly aggressive may be a more appropriate description for his disposition. He was pacing the dashboard back and forth. Never taking his eyes off of this very aggravating dog.
> 
> The driver opens his little triangle window that they don't make on cars anymore. The ones made for smokers back in the day. He yells out to this douche bag to call his dog off because it is upsetting his monkey. The guy laughs and says no way (I told you he was a jerk didn't I?). Says that his dog ain't bothering nobody. The dog hasn't shut up since he laid eyes on the monkey. I promise you he is bothering everybody for several blocks around.
> 
> Now here's where things start to get interesting. The driver says that if he doesn't call his dog off he's gonna let his monkey loose on that dog. Douche bag laughs and says that his dog would eat that monkey alive. Upon hearing this the driver leans over and reaches into his glove box I guess. Pulls out one of those tiny baseball bats like you used to get at Astroworld or carnivals, and places it in the monkeys hand. The monkey obviously knows what's about to go down because he is now trying to squeeze out of that little triangular window I mentioned earlier. This monkey has murder in his eyes if I have ever seen it. Driver hollers "Last chance to save your dog's ass man." In response douche bag lets his dog off of the leash. Now we have a situation that has escalated to the point where we have a dog jumping up at the window and a monkey screaming profanities right back at him. Well, the driver finally rolls down the regular window and out leaps all kinds of miniature primate hell. The dog never knew what hit him. Quick as a flash this monkey is riding on the back of this dog's neck. His two back feet all wrapped up in his neck fur with one hand hanging onto an ear. The other hand as you may have guessed by now is steadily and mercilessly raining down blows about this dog's head and face. I mean hard blows. You can hear them whap whap whap.
> 
> Well it only took a moment for the dog to realize he was in way over his head. He bolts yelping bloody murder as he runs away at full speed. I mean this dog is running so ****in hard he's throwing up tufts of grass and dirt as soon as he leaves pavement. The monkey still riding him and beating on him the whole time. Douche bag acts like he wants to fight now but several people including myself stepped in to stop that nonsense. In a couple of minutes or so the little monkey comes loping back with his little bat still in hand, and leaps up into the still open window of the truck to await his master who has gone on into the store.
> 
> That wanker ran off to try to go find his dog, but I don't know if he ever did. My ride showed up and I had to go. Never again in this lifetime will I see something so totally crazy and unexpected like that. I am both fortunate and humble to have been so privileged to be present for such an event.


----------



## brian john

Sounds like your local sucks.

Where you located.


----------



## gpop

SULLY103 said:


> your man "ohm it hertz" misses a big point, stick with the union, look him up in 20 years, no pension, still paying for health insurance. I'm an instructor at an IBEW apprenticeship. The kids who don't make it are the ones with the **** attitudes, not the dumb ones. we have a ton of kids come through here who aren't exactly rocket scientists, but they show up on time to work, to school, work hard and have a good attitude. And most of them aren't somebodies uncle's cousin. We do definitly cater to sons and daughters of members, just like every other industry in the world. If a company is paying big money, cash, and keep people, its probably because they suck. I find most guys like OIH dont like the union because they couldn't get in.


Yep us poor non union guys lmao.


----------



## CAUSA

matt1124 said:


> View attachment 162683
> 
> I’m going to think of that monkey now every time I check the tires 🤣🤣


----------



## Almost Retired

I GOTTA GETA TRUNK MONKEY !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rltomkinson

The guy who trained me to bend conduit said the cheapest way to learn was to use a 10' piece of scrap wire the same overall diameter as a stick of conduit. Bend that and check to see if the bend is correct or not. Smack it on the ground to straighten it out and do it again. Do offsets, 3-pt and 4-pt saddles, back-to-back 90's, etc. Keep practicing until you get them right every time.


----------



## MikeWhitfield

SandyEggoCub said:


> I’m not a second year. The current apprentice we have is a second year , we have another one who’s out sick.
> 
> I’m a 1-2 who failed pipe bending and right after the ibew let me do a repeat agreement I was laid off from my last contractor. I’m supposed to be the new lead on a 39 story building for the next year at my current contractor.
> 
> Honestly not as bad as some of the stuff one of the second year apprentices has had to do. Atleast the foreman is there to help.


CAUSA said it best: "Life is 10% of how you make it and 90% how you take it!" You're stressing out because you're being pushed out of your comfort zone. You SHOULD be stressing out when you're being pushed out of your comfort zone, but that very fact tells you that you're in a high demand field. That should make you feel better. The fact that you're a screw-up and still getting not only opportunity but a significant amount of responsibility should also make you feel better, because it shows that other people have at least some confidence in you. You could do a significant amount of damage in that position, so instead of freaking out about that possibility, take strength in the realization that people who make way more money and have way more experience than you aren't nearly as concerned about that possibility as you seem to be. 

As far as money, right now you're at the bottom of the totem pole, but it's a much taller pole than most people realize. A fully trained journeyman electrician can make more money than 90% of the white collar workers who think you have to get a four year degree (often in something that nobody wants to pay them to use) to make something of yourself. An apprentice SHOULD be broke; you have very few usable skills. You're doubly broke because you're in a very high cost of living state. Yet within a few short years, you'll have a lot of usable skills and will be making much better money with or without the union (and I'm a big believer in the UBEW.) If you like it, stick with it. It's supposed to be hard, otherwise we'd have morons all around us.


----------



## 9-volt

CAUSA said:


> What I’m going to say/write Is not to sound preachy, or disrespectful.
> 
> 1: in any learning environment it is 100% the responsibility of the student to learn the material. No matter how good or bad the instructor is.
> This being said: learn from fellow students, to network with the peers last a lifetime for potential employment leads and comradeship.
> 
> 2: Turn your weekness in to your strengths.
> Your know you have a learning disability, so only you can break the chain internally. This is hard I know. It took 10 years to correct the visual representation of the letters d and b orientation when I was in school. But that was my cross to carve out and overcome.
> 
> you need to start small and take all emotional view, out of the situation. The body will adapt. You live in it. You have to push yourself, internally to be the best version of yourself. Mastery of oneself is a never ending battle. Anyone who says they won, is only lying to themselves.
> 
> 3: so projects and practices with hands on can be done anywhere. Depending on how you look at it.
> Example: bending pipe!
> The math involved to calculating the offset or rolling offset. Keep it simple. Better to understand the concept first. Then learn the reason for the math. This will make the learning better.
> Pipe is pipe. You do not need to have the actual size to start. A straw and a bearing chase to get the angles on a desk is more valuable. To learn how the deformed sections happens to the pipe during bending and how to prevent the deformed from happening. With still keeping the angles. Or use 1/4 copper soft drawn for more stiffness. You can make the degree marks on the used bearings chase ( inside section). The options are endless. Depending on how you look at it.
> 
> 4:the public library in you area. This hopefully is still open. Is a vast resource for you to learn.
> 
> 5: patience: you will only get out, what you put into it.
> 
> 6: life is 10% of how you make it and 90% how you take it!
> 
> 7: dietary restrictions: keep it simple. Poor food choices leads to poor body resources. This means if you cannot control/concentrate. Can not learn properly.
> 
> 8: above all: do not be your worst enemy.
> Like the rest has said. There are other areas in this trade. There are other trades.
> 
> 9: money is a game: learn how to play it. Example take the dollar in your country. Is it really worth a dollar?
> 
> the paper? The ink? The labour to make it. Take it to another country and it could be worth more than a dollar.
> This I will stop here. For this is another post. But you should get the idea now.
> 
> it is up to you. There is always another area or employer. You just have to look and keep moving forward. And KEEP learning and improving no matter how old you get!!!!!!!!


In my opinion, this is probably the BEST advice anyone has given you. I'm 65, and been an electrician since the mid-1970's, now a Master electrician licensed in the State of Texas, and when I decided a few years ago to learn CCTV surveillance camera installs, I got off my butt and studied AFTER work for several hours per day, until I could understand and successfully pass the CCTV quizzes. You will have to put in more time learning......learning from whomever and whatever is willing to teach you. Try online videos, buy a bender, buy some conduit, and PRACTICE. Experience pays huge dividends, and experience comes with practice. Good luck!

Once a member of IBEW Local 95, Joplin MO.


----------



## Johnzo

OP, man up and go find a job. There are plenty out there. I'm in Santa Barbara and would have told you to come up and I would hire you until you made the comment about faking an injury. I start guys that can use a screwdriver and a pair of pliers for $25. My last guy wasn't even a journeyman and I was paying him $38. I had to fire him because he dented my truck and then lied about it not being him. Evidence on my customers plaster column that matched the dents proved otherwise. We are hurting for competent workers bad up here. I would not put so much faith in the union. It can work out for some guys, but it's who you know or who you blow that get's you to the top. I hired a few union guys on the side when they were slow and they were the most worthless guys I ever employed (no offense to the good union guys on this board). They refused to sweep up the sawdust from drilling out a house because "it's not in their job description to sweep". I've had guys that didn't even speak english that made $3,500/week when I was doing production homes and paying piece pricing by the sq ft. You don't need the union to make a ton of money in this trade. You need a good attitude and a good work ethic. The union can be good. One guy I taught when he was fresh out of high school in 2001 went union during the 2008 crash. He now makes over $300k/year in the union working for DWP. He works a lot though and drinks a ton of beer with his union brothers when he's not working.


----------



## Matt Hermanson

SandyEggoCub said:


> Well recently I got laid off and started at another company.
> 
> Long story short it was only 3 weeks between my last eval and the time I got laid off with a bad one due to being out with testing positive for covid.
> 
> The first one was fine and just said I needed to improve on some stuff but my work ethic and attitude is good. I take a lot of initiative too and get everything ready in the morning and don’t need to be told to start something.
> 
> Well I guess either my journeyman got pissed of at me or something or I just have no self awareness because I was laid off towards the end of January.
> 
> Its odd because he said I was actually already improving a lot and even put that in my notes for my first evaluation.
> 
> Now I get to go in front of the board again after failing a section of the hands on final and now I got a bad eval. I’m definitely getting kicked out. Even the training director said that.
> 
> I think my Jman was probably betting on me getting kicked out for the schooling because I got sick a few days before I was supposed to go in front of the JATC board ( did a zoom meeting ) and after the doctor cleared me on my first day back he asked if I got kicked out or not.
> 
> 4 days later I’m laid off from one of the biggest contractors out of my hall and my eval reads like I’m a useless idiot.
> 
> I’m starting to think the union where I’m at is wayyyy too fast paced for me. I never had issues like this when I was non union.
> 
> I never even saw the eval itself but when I asked for feedback because I genuinely felt more focused and more organized I got kinda shrugged off by him.
> 
> At the contractor I’ve been at now for almost a month I don’t even bother to ask. I don’t trust anyone to be honest anymore.
> 
> As for the schooling there’s always tutoring which I did plenty of but I wanted to take it a step further and build my own board for the pipe bending but just didn’t have 200-300$ it would’ve cost me in materials and conduit.
> 
> I’m trying to survive on 20/$hr in costal california. I don’t have a pot to piss in or any support system at all but 100% agree that I should’ve done that if I could and money allowed.
> 
> Anyway as a 1-1 I’m supposed to be the new lead on my current job in 2 months if I’m not already out by then and showing/laying out 3-5 more apprentices for a whole year.
> 
> Our foreman comes and helps us every now and then but he also does a lot typical foreman stuff too.
> 
> I feel like this is a lot of scrutiny and way more than I expected. I can’t do something once or twice and be good as a journeyman or foreman at it. I just can’t but that seems to be the expectation from the guys I’ve worked under.
> 
> The schools no better because we have to learn way too much and way too quickly in lab so after you’re shown once you don’t even go over it again in class. After that it’s on you or you can come to tutoring. The teachers who do the tutoring don’t really help and are just there for the money usually but sometimes the actual instructor will come in.
> 
> It’s not an impossible program by any means but you have to learn really fast and work very very quickly a lot of the time.
> 
> I’ve already had a few trashy things told to me by some people like being told to wait another hour until break to get water when we’re out in the sun all day doing underground ( a GF told me that) but WE. I just keep my mouth shut.
> 
> I knew what came with the territory with local 569 but I didn’t expect it to be this tough even as a first year.
> 
> I cant really tell if I’m just too ******/ learn too slow or I’m better off out of a better hall where I’m given a chance to actually learn at a more realistic and steady pace.
> 
> What should I do when I’m kicked out ?
> Leave the trade entirely ? It will be hard to get a non union job and explain a 8 month gap
> 
> 
> I’ll either be told **** off or laughed at and offered bare minimum wage. Not sure if being honest is the right move.
> 
> 
> Should I just take a CW call from my hall ? Should I even bother applying to another JATC ?
> 
> I’m not saying some of it isn’t my fault , I’m sure there’s some merit , I’m definitely not perfect but expecting a lot of a 1-1 even with some experience is silly.
> 
> I really like the trade , am very punctual, bust ass (almost work too fast sometimes) because I know I need to but I guess that’s not enough even when you’re new and still learning.
> 
> Anyway , any advice appreciated guys. Thanks.


Remember that as a first year, you suck.
I mean like really suck.
Like why did we ever hire you suck.

But the fact of the matter is, the rest of us sucked at that point as well.
All of us started exactly where you are.
Except Manjewski the free candy van driver from Minneapolis.
He started even . . . .
never mind.

Leave Commieofornia and come to Iowa.
The pay will be lower.
But relative to the cost of living, the pay is higher.
Lots of work.
EVERY contractor is using some sort of Federally approved apprenticeship program.

Using Union scale as a guide, 347 (Des Moines) is $40-ish/hour for JW pay.
Local 22 (Omaha) is right in there as well.
Non-union is slightly lower per hour but with more paid time off (vacation and holiday pay is usually employer paid in non-union shops).
So they are very similar overall.
They have to be or they lose all of their bodies.

Union scale hasn't driven wages up here in Iowa.
The lack of skilled workers is driving up wages and union scale is trying to keep up.

As a further point of reference, the median San Diego home price is $812,100.
While the median Des Moines home price is only $168,700.

Move to Iowa and in four years you could actually buy your own home.
That ain't happening in San Diego unless you live two to three hours outside of the area.
Des Moines has possibly the highest electrician wages in the country when compared to the cost of living.


----------



## joe-nwt

Yeah, but Iowa gots tornadoes.


----------



## MikeWhitfield

joe-nwt said:


> Yeah, but Iowa gots tornadoes.


My level of moron tolerance has declined to the point that I'll take the tornadoes over California. 😁

Although I will say that a rooftop in Des Moines is one of the coldest times in my life.


----------



## poncho144

SandyEggoCub said:


> I know that. I’m just not sure what to do now because my mistakes are gonna get me kicked out. I can fall 7 times and get back up 8 but it doesn’t change the fact I can’t grasp stuff quickly enough.
> 
> I’m trying as hard as I can and got back on adhd meds which help a lot but it looks like it was already too late and isn’t enough.
> 
> My issue is if drug addicts and cokeheads can do well even enough though they show up to work ****ed up and I can’t , what does that say about my intelligence?
> 
> Sure the school isn’t probably ran the best but while plenty of people had to tutor they still passed. I didn’t. There has to some personal accountability in my actual lack of skills or brains.
> 
> if I can’t do this what the hell can I do ? “Hustle” ? That’s about all I can think
> 
> I don’t have negative outlook because I ****ed up once, I have a negative outlook because I keep making mistakes and they all count against you.
> 
> Usually when I think I’m doing well and have a confident attitude it’s actually the complete opposite. My lay off proved that.
> 
> also they don’t let you use the whole pile of pipe at school lol. You get one or two pieces a day because that’s all you get during the test.


Hey man, really sorry 'bout yer bad Union experience, BUT, youv'e brought up DRUGS a couple times and to me be'in a die hard IBEW champion, Dat be a RED FLAG ! Lets focus on the burden Electricians have to shoulder. This trade is DANGEROUS....AND.....IF you do not have ALL YER **** TOGETHER, can't keep up, have attitude like Charley Brown (whys ever body pick'n on me), self loathing etc, the list goes on. Its past time for you to drop out. Folks are pick'n up some BAD VIBES . wit you. Think 'bout this, are you really equipped to handle the stress many times more so than what you have delt with so far? No, didn't think so. Bail out...BEFORE you actually endanger some ones life!


----------



## MikeWhitfield

Johnzo said:


> OP, man up and go find a job. There are plenty out there. I'm in Santa Barbara and would have told you to come up and I would hire you until you made the comment about faking an injury. I start guys that can use a screwdriver and a pair of pliers for $25. My last guy wasn't even a journeyman and I was paying him $38. I had to fire him because he dented my truck and then lied about it not being him. Evidence on my customers plaster column that matched the dents proved otherwise. SNIP


Huge red flag for me too, but I decided not to kick a man for what he thought about doing but hasn't. But honesty is a huge issue. We try to tell our young hires that over and over. One of our senior partners says he can fix just about anything if he knows the truth, but if he tries to defend something based on lies or incomplete truths then he ends up looking like an ass and we lose a client. Typically there's only one chance to make something right. Denting a truck is simply one minor occupational hazard; lying about denting a truck is an ethics issue.


----------



## Steve Loew.

SandyEggoCub said:


> Well recently I got laid off and started at another company.
> 
> Long story short it was only 3 weeks between my last eval and the time I got laid off with a bad one due to being out with testing positive for covid.
> 
> The first one was fine and just said I needed to improve on some stuff but my work ethic and attitude is good. I take a lot of initiative too and get everything ready in the morning and don’t need to be told to start something.
> 
> Well I guess either my journeyman got pissed of at me or something or I just have no self awareness because I was laid off towards the end of January.
> 
> Its odd because he said I was actually already improving a lot and even put that in my notes for my first evaluation.
> 
> Now I get to go in front of the board again after failing a section of the hands on final and now I got a bad eval. I’m definitely getting kicked out. Even the training director said that.
> 
> I think my Jman was probably betting on me getting kicked out for the schooling because I got sick a few days before I was supposed to go in front of the JATC board ( did a zoom meeting ) and after the doctor cleared me on my first day back he asked if I got kicked out or not.
> 
> 4 days later I’m laid off from one of the biggest contractors out of my hall and my eval reads like I’m a useless idiot.
> 
> I’m starting to think the union where I’m at is wayyyy too fast paced for me. I never had issues like this when I was non union.
> 
> I never even saw the eval itself but when I asked for feedback because I genuinely felt more focused and more organized I got kinda shrugged off by him.
> 
> At the contractor I’ve been at now for almost a month I don’t even bother to ask. I don’t trust anyone to be honest anymore.
> 
> As for the schooling there’s always tutoring which I did plenty of but I wanted to take it a step further and build my own board for the pipe bending but just didn’t have 200-300$ it would’ve cost me in materials and conduit.
> 
> I’m trying to survive on 20/$hr in costal california. I don’t have a pot to piss in or any support system at all but 100% agree that I should’ve done that if I could and money allowed.
> 
> Anyway as a 1-1 I’m supposed to be the new lead on my current job in 2 months if I’m not already out by then and showing/laying out 3-5 more apprentices for a whole year.
> 
> Our foreman comes and helps us every now and then but he also does a lot typical foreman stuff too.
> 
> I feel like this is a lot of scrutiny and way more than I expected. I can’t do something once or twice and be good as a journeyman or foreman at it. I just can’t but that seems to be the expectation from the guys I’ve worked under.
> 
> The schools no better because we have to learn way too much and way too quickly in lab so after you’re shown once you don’t even go over it again in class. After that it’s on you or you can come to tutoring. The teachers who do the tutoring don’t really help and are just there for the money usually but sometimes the actual instructor will come in.
> 
> It’s not an impossible program by any means but you have to learn really fast and work very very quickly a lot of the time.
> 
> I’ve already had a few trashy things told to me by some people like being told to wait another hour until break to get water when we’re out in the sun all day doing underground ( a GF told me that) but WE. I just keep my mouth shut.
> 
> I knew what came with the territory with local 569 but I didn’t expect it to be this tough even as a first year.
> 
> I cant really tell if I’m just too ******/ learn too slow or I’m better off out of a better hall where I’m given a chance to actually learn at a more realistic and steady pace.
> 
> What should I do when I’m kicked out ?
> Leave the trade entirely ? It will be hard to get a non union job and explain a 8 month gap
> 
> 
> I’ll either be told **** off or laughed at and offered bare minimum wage. Not sure if being honest is the right move.
> 
> 
> Should I just take a CW call from my hall ? Should I even bother applying to another JATC ?
> 
> I’m not saying some of it isn’t my fault , I’m sure there’s some merit , I’m definitely not perfect but expecting a lot of a 1-1 even with some experience is silly.
> 
> I really like the trade , am very punctual, bust ass (almost work too fast sometimes) because I know I need to but I guess that’s not enough even when you’re new and still learning.
> 
> Anyway , any advice appreciated guys. Thanks.


Go Nonunion ,IBEW is a Joke.


----------



## oldsparky52

Steve Loew. said:


> Go Nonunion ,IBEW is a Joke.


Why do you say that? I've known a few union electricians and they were pretty sharp electricians.

Most of the "how did you get a license" guys were non unions like me.


----------



## taglicious

Wirenuting said:


> Shoot, you would fit right in here with some of my co-workers.
> Never let a day job get in the way of night life.
> 
> But truthfully, my statement of on the beach holds true as is the being cut loose.
> Seems Boomer is a new word for discrimination and can be cause for termination. *He's the baby, so It’s 'UNDER AGE' discrimination its isle 12 in the toddler section.*


sounds like my kid when he was throwing a fit at 2 years old. I mean s-t, i'll throw down on that lil f-r if he ever bitches like that now. He's 24 so i'm at least gonna prep & bring a potato sack full🤣🤣


----------



## Greg Sparkovich

Well I'm not going to read all of the comments here, but so far what I've seen looks pretty positive.
I don't know how the pay scale ramps up in unions, I imagine it's based on years and tests and then set at a certain level depending on where you live.
I got started at minimum wage is it apprentice with about zero knowledge (I was so relieved to find out that the black wire went to black wire and white wire went to white wire in a fluorescent fixture -just like an incandescent fixture!!!), got my first raise after 2 months, and it went up from there ... When I quit working for my boss about 15 or 20 years ago he was paying me $25 an hour. My boss had carved out a nice little niche for himself doing residential work and I saw what he did and emulated it. I respected his customers and never bid on the same project without checking in with him; if you wanted the job, I gave a stupid high price and walked ... We're still good friends to this day; we loan each other tools, discuss code, protocol, troubleshooting.
Now I make about $80/hr.

I'm sure unions are great and they have their advantages, but I've never seen the need for me to be in one.

My advice is to start spending your evenings doing things like watching Mike Holt videos on YouTube and find yourself a boss who's willing to be a teacher.

Yep being an electrician is a fun job that is interesting, challenging, and can certainly be lucrative (although Union or not, you will definitely have some time spent paying your dues).


----------



## MikeWhitfield

oldsparky52 said:


> Why do you say that? I've known a few union electricians and they were pretty sharp electricians.
> 
> Most of the "how did you get a license" guys were non unions like me.


The very best electrical contractor with whom I've ever worked, hands down, is a non-union shop because they're travelers, but usually the best shops I see are union shops. I see the IBEW as a floor - if a contractor is an IBEW shop, there's an assured minimum competence and certain guaranteed ethics, whereas unknown non-union contractors can be anything from Wiggins (the aforementioned travelers) to dangerously incompetent and/or dishonest. Beyond that, whether a shop is union seems to depend mostly on their local situation and their specialty. Not a lot of residential around here is done by union shops, although most sparkies are union trained and some are members in good standing, because it's so cost-constrained and the contractors have to compete with non-union shops who don't pay as well and are thus cheaper. But hit a high rise apartment building and it's probably a union shop simply because the better (and bigger) shops around here are union shops. I've also worked in areas like Minnesota where every single contractor was union and the owner bringing in his own non-union specialty teams caused every trade to walk off the job until the owner arranged to pay for membership and a union "supervisor" (aka protection money.) Doesn't mean that every contractor in that area was competent, there are no doubt still bottom feeders, but it was a very strong union town. Lots of variability in union strength between localities.


----------



## B.Jenkins

SandyEggoCub said:


> I cant really tell if I’m just too ******/ learn too slow or I’m better off out of a better hall where I’m given a chance to actually learn at a more realistic and steady pace.


I got a lot of that from the place I worked at during my apprenticeship but somehow I managed to survive all the rounds of layoffs for 4 yrs, if I was 'that' bad I'm sure they would have fired me, no? 

Can't you just go to another local?


----------



## backstay

B.Jenkins said:


> I got a lot of that from the place I worked at during my apprenticeship but somehow I managed to survive all the rounds of layoffs for 4 yrs, if I was 'that' bad I'm sure they would have fired me, no?
> 
> Can't you just go to another local?


He hasn’t been on here since April. I doubt anything can help now.


----------



## poncho144

SandyEggoCub said:


> Well recently I got laid off and started at another company.
> 
> Long story short it was only 3 weeks between my last eval and the time I got laid off with a bad one due to being out with testing positive for covid.
> 
> The first one was fine and just said I needed to improve on some stuff but my work ethic and attitude is good. I take a lot of initiative too and get everything ready in the morning and don’t need to be told to start something.
> 
> Well I guess either my journeyman got pissed of at me or something or I just have no self awareness because I was laid off towards the end of January.
> 
> Its odd because he said I was actually already improving a lot and even put that in my notes for my first evaluation.
> 
> Now I get to go in front of the board again after failing a section of the hands on final and now I got a bad eval. I’m definitely getting kicked out. Even the training director said that.
> 
> I think my Jman was probably betting on me getting kicked out for the schooling because I got sick a few days before I was supposed to go in front of the JATC board ( did a zoom meeting ) and after the doctor cleared me on my first day back he asked if I got kicked out or not.
> 
> 4 days later I’m laid off from one of the biggest contractors out of my hall and my eval reads like I’m a useless idiot.
> 
> I’m starting to think the union where I’m at is wayyyy too fast paced for me. I never had issues like this when I was non union.
> 
> I never even saw the eval itself but when I asked for feedback because I genuinely felt more focused and more organized I got kinda shrugged off by him.
> 
> At the contractor I’ve been at now for almost a month I don’t even bother to ask. I don’t trust anyone to be honest anymore.
> 
> As for the schooling there’s always tutoring which I did plenty of but I wanted to take it a step further and build my own board for the pipe bending but just didn’t have 200-300$ it would’ve cost me in materials and conduit.
> 
> I’m trying to survive on 20/$hr in costal california. I don’t have a pot to piss in or any support system at all but 100% agree that I should’ve done that if I could and money allowed.
> 
> Anyway as a 1-1 I’m supposed to be the new lead on my current job in 2 months if I’m not already out by then and showing/laying out 3-5 more apprentices for a whole year.
> 
> Our foreman comes and helps us every now and then but he also does a lot typical foreman stuff too.
> 
> I feel like this is a lot of scrutiny and way more than I expected. I can’t do something once or twice and be good as a journeyman or foreman at it. I just can’t but that seems to be the expectation from the guys I’ve worked under.
> 
> The schools no better because we have to learn way too much and way too quickly in lab so after you’re shown once you don’t even go over it again in class. After that it’s on you or you can come to tutoring. The teachers who do the tutoring don’t really help and are just there for the money usually but sometimes the actual instructor will come in.
> 
> It’s not an impossible program by any means but you have to learn really fast and work very very quickly a lot of the time.
> 
> I’ve already had a few trashy things told to me by some people like being told to wait another hour until break to get water when we’re out in the sun all day doing underground ( a GF told me that) but WE. I just keep my mouth shut.
> 
> I knew what came with the territory with local 569 but I didn’t expect it to be this tough even as a first year.
> 
> I cant really tell if I’m just too ******/ learn too slow or I’m better off out of a better hall where I’m given a chance to actually learn at a more realistic and steady pace.
> 
> What should I do when I’m kicked out ?
> Leave the trade entirely ? It will be hard to get a non union job and explain a 8 month gap
> 
> 
> I’ll either be told **** off or laughed at and offered bare minimum wage. Not sure if being honest is the right move.
> 
> 
> Should I just take a CW call from my hall ? Should I even bother applying to another JATC ?
> 
> I’m not saying some of it isn’t my fault , I’m sure there’s some merit , I’m definitely not perfect but expecting a lot of a 1-1 even with some experience is silly.
> 
> I really like the trade , am very punctual, bust ass (almost work too fast sometimes) because I know I need to but I guess that’s not enough even when you’re new and still learning.
> 
> Anyway , any advice appreciated guys. Thanks.


Well, don't think you wanna hear an old farts tale about "back in my day" but I'm wondering who told ya dat being a Sparky wuz gonna be easy. It simply ain't, no way Jose. No matter what Trade you be in making it to J man is wrought with sweat, agony, fear, harassment failure and self-doubt. IF ya really feel the challenges remain overwhelming the Skilled Trades ain't for you.
My suggestion is to take a look at the Navy and Air Forces Electrician program. What have ya got to lose?


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