# Would you install a 75 KVA transformer without a permit?



## MechanicalDVR

Nope, don't need that stress


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## Julius793

Large Facilities that we service we rarely pull permits for small things like that. However if it would be a first time customer I would most likely require them to.


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## Majewski

Depends on some variables not you still shouldn't.....


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## PlugsAndLights

Not a chance! I draw the line at 45KVA!
P&L


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## Majewski

I just want everyone to know I voted bacon first. Trend setter.


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## ponyboy

When I worked with an in house contractor for a big manufacturing plant we would do that probably once a week.


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## Going_Commando

Hell yeah. Industrial places around here dont pull permits for anything unless it is outside.


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## 99cents

Going_Commando said:


> Hell yeah. Industrial places around here dont pull permits for anything unless it is outside.


Would it be covered by an annual permit? Sometimes they do that around here.


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## Lone Crapshooter

Yes if their engineering dept designed the instalation or it was replace in kind. Most city building inspectors know nothing about industrial work. Industrial inspections should be left up to in house engineers or engineering firms or induatrial insurance inspectors IRI, FM Global.
LC


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## Going_Commando

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Yes if their engineering dept designed the instalation or it was replace in kind. Most city building inspectors know nothing about industrial work. Industrial inspections should be left up to in house engineers or engineering firms or induatrial insurance inspectors IRI, FM Global.
> LC


Exactly. We have all-in-one building inspectors here that dont know crap.


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## MechanicalDVR

99cents said:


> Would it be covered by an annual permit? Sometimes they do that around here.


What is an 'annual' permit? This must be a Canadian term / entity.


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## macmikeman

Not only would I install a 75 kva transformer without a permit, but I wouldn't wear my license on my sleeve , or wear a hard hat while doing so..


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## micromind

I've installed 75s and even much larger with no permit and no engineering. 

About the only time anyone around here gets a permit is for a new service.


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## macmikeman

micromind said:


> I've installed 75s and even much larger with no permit and no engineering.
> 
> About the only time anyone around here gets a permit is for a new service.


Awesome place! Six different magnetic signs with different company names should work real well around there.......


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## ponyboy

micromind said:


> I've installed 75s and even much larger with no permit and no engineering.
> 
> About the only time anyone around here gets a permit is for a new service.




Same. Inspections for services only. We rework all our own 13.8 stuff inside without any outside inspections. Like LC said most inspectors would be out of their league walking into our place, not because they don't know anything but the level of involvement we have in our electrical systems and assets is far from common knowledge for most run of the mill city inspectors.


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## macmikeman

Biscuits said:


> Same. Inspections for services only. We rework all our own 13.8 stuff inside without any outside inspections. Like LC said most inspectors would be out of their league walking into our place, not because they don't know anything but the level of involvement we have in our electrical systems and assets is far from common knowledge for most run of the mill city inspectors.


I'd break your balls on box fill violations. :yes:


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## HackWork

MechanicalDVR said:


> What is an 'annual' permit? This must be a Canadian term / entity.


I'm surprised you never heard of that, NJ does it.

Facilities will pull an annual permit for all the small work that they do. Such as a hospital that has a crew of maintenance electrician who are always adding or replacing lights, outlets, re-feeding machinery in different areas, etc.


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## ponyboy

macmikeman said:


> I'd break your balls on box fill violations. :yes:




My boxes are always filled


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## Jhellwig

Biscuits said:


> Same. Inspections for services only. We rework all our own 13.8 stuff inside without any outside inspections. Like LC said most inspectors would be out of their league walking into our place, not because they don't know anything but the level of involvement we have in our electrical systems and assets is far from common knowledge for most run of the mill city inspectors.


I still don't see where that big businesses can do whatever they want clause but that hasn't stopped any of the ones I have worked for. Never seen an inspector. 

Coincidentall you can get your masters after being a journeyman for a year so that tells you how good our system is. Nothing but a money grab.


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## Lone Crapshooter

It is mentioned in the code. Engineering Supervision.That is how they can do it and they have established engineering standards.
LC


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## LuckyLuke

Thankfully I have annual permits for most of our customers, one permit a year and done! I have lost several jobs for not wanting to work without a permit, but I am super ok with that. :thumbsup:


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## HackWork

I have 3 open permits right now.

I promised myself I would never do this. I feel so dirty.


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## five.five-six

Having an open or annual permit would not be "not having a permit". There is no permit for this job.


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## Lone Crapshooter

Another thing big business does is that they are self insured.Basically it is what we would call a deductible. Where ours are a thousand or two big business is several million dollars that they can take the hit for if something happens. It also saves them money if nothing happens.
The lawyers and the bean counters stay up late into the night figuring this stuff out.

LC


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## Glock23gp

LuckyLuke said:


> Thankfully I have annual permits for most of our customers, one permit a year and done! I have lost several jobs for not wanting to work without a permit, but I am super ok with that.


I'm not sure about your state but here the Master Permit Program allows industrial facilities to do THEIR OWN electrical work by in-house maintanance employees only. These jobs are written down in a "master" book and at the end of each year the inspector goes to check a few of the jobs to ensure they were done to code.

Any non employee installations "ie. Contractors" are required to pull their own permit on each job just like they would on any job.

If you have an annual permit per facility that would be a huge help not worrying about permitting every....single....job....done daily by multiple employees possibly.

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## five.five-six

I turned down the job.


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## MechanicalDVR

HackWork said:


> I'm surprised you never heard of that, NJ does it.
> 
> Facilities will pull an annual permit for all the small work that they do. Such as a hospital that has a crew of maintenance electrician who are always adding or replacing lights, outlets, re-feeding machinery in different areas, etc.


Wasn't my scope of work on contracts like that. I realized when I thought about it afterwards.


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## micromind

macmikeman said:


> Awesome place! Six different magnetic signs with different company names should work real well around there.......


This might be why they require contractors to have permanently painted signage on company vehicles and magnetic signs are specifically prohibited......lol.

Seriously, of course there are hacks that take advantage of lax permitting but the vast majority of comm'l/industrial work around here is not bad. 

Journeymen are not licensed by the state but the city of Reno has licensing though it's rarely enforced. The state does license contractors though and it actively goes after those not licensed. Especially web searches and Craigslist.


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## triden

MechanicalDVR said:


> What is an 'annual' permit? This must be a Canadian term / entity.


I think its an Albertan term. In BC we have operating permits which allows a plant to do regular maintenance work and some upgrades without pulling an installation permit every time.


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## Byte

I did in large oil and gas plants that produced their own power. They don't need special permits; however, you need a permit from the company to do your work, so I guess I need a permit. Just not a SCO.


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