# 400 amp service disconnecting means



## AESolutionsINC (Jun 25, 2011)

I recently installed a 400 amp service. A 400 amp meter pedestal with a bypass lever switch to 2(two) 200 amp MB panels with a wire tray above both panels with feeder wires running through to properly space the panels. The city currently uses the 2011 NEC. The inspector is requesting a disconnecting means on the outside of the house in the meter pedestal. Now maybe I’m reading the code wrong or he missed something, but before I contact him I want to have my information correct. Wouldn’t the bypass lever switch serve as a disconnecting means? Or would I have to replace the pedestal to contain 400A breaker. I’m not seeing where overcurrent protection is needed on the outside of the house in the NEC, just a disconnecting means. Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The bypass is not a disconnect any more than pulling the meter out is a disconnect.

The inspector is wrong about the requirement for a disconnect outside unless there is a state or local requirement for the disconnect to be outside. I have heard that some states require outside disconnects but the NEC does not


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

The meter bypass is strictally for POCO useage that it due it will bypass the meter socket when the POCO service the meter. ( the bypass lever is designed to prevent run in bypass mode when the cover is on ) 


Now for the outside disconnect switch or OCPD ., generally the NEC is semi muted but they will mention some depending on how far the *unfused* conductors will run inside the building. However ., most case the line drawen about 6 to 8 foot range unless it is noted by state or local code requirement.

I dont know which city ya in but I am pretty sure cook county is pretty strict on this.


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## AESolutionsINC (Jun 25, 2011)

This is for a town called Naperville,IL, I looked at their amendments and could not find a distance or a mention of a disconnecting requirement. I will call the inspector and see what the deal is. Thanks for all your input! This was my first 400A service install so I didn’t want to sound like an idiot when I called him.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

A few cities in Northern IL require an outside disco.
Thought there were also ones that required it if the service was 400a or larger.
Can't remember Naperville.
Best to get a copy & review of the local amendments before working.
Because IL has about nothing on the state level, every municipality makes their own amendments. Another gotcha one was Schaumburg. No island receptacles.
Wonder how many got cut in cabinets only to be blanked off for inspection.
Or Alrington Heights requiring a switched outside GFI. Or both of those having device / fixture count limits on circuits. Don't even get me started about the City of Chicago.

I had an electrician melt my new keyring of allens across a meter like that.
He thought the bypass lever was a disconnect. 
Then never checked with a meter.
That's when he learned a bypass meter lever only bypasses the power around the meter, so the meter can be removed without a load. Think it also loosens & tightens the meter clips. So when it's set to bypass the meters comes out easily. But when not bypassed the clips are clamped tight.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

i'm still looking for a clear code explanation but is one of those panels a sub panel? right now you have to turn off 2 switches to disconnect the service and i'm thinking there may have to be one switch that disconnects the service alone. i will keep looking into the code later though, right now i don't have code proof that its required, just using my understanding of the intention of the service disconnect


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Wiresmith said:


> i'm still looking for a clear code explanation but is one of those panels a sub panel? right now you have to turn off 2 switches to disconnect the service and i'm thinking there may have to be one switch that disconnects the service alone. i will keep looking into the code later though, right now i don't have code proof that its required, just using my understanding of the intention of the service disconnect


Code allows up to 6 disconnects for a service 230.71

Both panels are service panels in the op's question


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

If those panels are right on the other side of the wall (which is what it looks like), it looks fine per NEC.

Like Dennis said you can have up to six disconnects, provided they are grouped together.

It must be something local.

BTW no way on the bypass, not a switch, a bypass.


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## AESolutionsINC (Jun 25, 2011)

So I spoke with the inspector who agrees the information for their cities requirement is not readily available to the public and is willing to work with me to remedy the situation and mitigate costs involved. He wants me to make a valid effort to put a breaker in the pedestal short of removing the whole thing and replacing it. Does anybody know if millbank makes a retrofit kit for the current pedestal to install the breaker?


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

AESolutionsINC said:


> So I spoke with the inspector who agrees the information for their cities requirement is not readily available to the public and is willing to work with me to remedy the situation and mitigate costs involved. He wants me to make a valid effort to put a breaker in the pedestal short of removing the whole thing and replacing it. Does anybody know if millbank makes a retrofit kit for the current pedestal to install the breaker?



Call or email Milbank, then you can get it straight from them.

Also, if they don't make one, you can have that correspondence in an email that you can show the inspector.

www.milbankworks.com


Over here, your install would pass inspection all day long. Oregon also has "cite it, write it" laws requiring inspectors to cite the violation with a code article for inspections.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

AESolutionsINC said:


> So I spoke with the inspector who agrees the information for their cities requirement is not readily available to the public and is willing to work with me to remedy the situation and mitigate costs involved. He wants me to make a valid effort to put a breaker in the pedestal short of removing the whole thing and replacing it. Does anybody know if millbank makes a retrofit kit for the current pedestal to install the breaker?


I dont think Milbank do have retrofit kit for that width of the meter pedestal IIRC if wider model then possiblty for two 200 amp breakers which I know it can be done in that route. If single 400 it may possible but not that width of tub.

You can check with Milbank but other option is to punch side holes but I am not too crazy to do that for that size of tub.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Think you're looking at a entire different Milbank pedestal and a much higher price.
I want to say the duel 200a disco ones are wider then the regular 400a.
Still a new disco meter is probibly the easiest route.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Talk to the inspector again. See if removing the wireway above the panel will fix the problem.

Around here mixing fused and un-fused would be a fail. Maybe that's why he wants a main breaker outside?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

cabletie said:


> Talk to the inspector again. See if removing the wireway above the panel will fix the problem.
> 
> Around here mixing fused and un-fused would be a fail. Maybe that's why he wants a main breaker outside?



I missed that but that's a good call. You cannot mix the service entrance cable with the branch circuits. 

It appears the inspector is saying there is a rule but it is not available to all..... I would want to see the rule as I suspect it may be his rule. Ask for a copy for your records


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I think it's in the utilitie's rules if not in the NEC.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

cabletie said:


> I think it's in the utilitie's rules if not in the NEC.


It is an NEC rule---230.7


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

cabletie said:


> Talk to the inspector again. See if removing the wireway above the panel will fix the problem.
> 
> Around here mixing fused and un-fused would be a fail. Maybe that's why he wants a main breaker outside?


Good catch on that part I am not aware about that photo until I used on main computer then I can see it clear why it failed in first place.

I am aware of the OP location is pretty strict with conduit requirement so I am pretty sure the OP will have to pipe in everything if that area do not allowed NM cables. 

but here in Philippines it the same way they dont allowed unfused and fused conductors mixed in the wireway. 

230.7 ( both 14 and 17 NEC 11 is worded same )


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Naperville has their own city electric utility called DPU-E.
Typical northern IL set-up except for the wireway.

Technically the wireways not mixing service and branch conductors... Yet.
But it is blocking any branch conduit straight in the panel top.
It would work if your running everything in the slab, doubt that's the OP intention.
Don't understand why the right has only 2 nipples. If 1 2" is for the service, another 2" for 40 circuits.

Hard to tell if the wireway is wide enough for a straight pull.

For that one I would have gone straight down into the panel on the right and kicked it then down to the left one. Plus put a nipple between for the electrode conductor to jump. But there is more than 1 way to do that.

I could probibly get away with where the plywood is at.
But would remove & start over with the rest.


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## AESolutionsINC (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks for all the feedback! I am replacing the meter to solve ALL issues. If you can see from the inside picture there is a main drain for the plumber on the right and a window on the left. My spacing had to be exact and figured the wireway would make this easier to complete. I am also placing a 100A panel in the attic utility room for this residence, hence the different number of nipples. My brother suggested not using the wireway and kicking the pipes over, I trumped him. Guess he was right and could have relieved some headache. Lessons learned, and money spent, but that’s how I’ve made it this far. Thanks!


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

frenchelectrican said:


> cabletie said:
> 
> 
> > Talk to the inspector again. See if removing the wireway above the panel will fix the problem.
> ...


I usually use the full site on my iPhone. About a month ago the adds took over again. The whole page was covered with a guy putting glue down for a sub floor. I could read about one "new post listing" above the add and maybe one sentence of the new post. 

So I figured this site needs the adds more than it needs me. Last week I checked in and it switched me over to enhanced Mobil. Now I can see the add is in the back as the post scroll past. Now all photos I have to click on to see. Most just show as broken links. If I do see a picture, when I zoom in it crashes the page. 

I go to two non-electric forums and it's amazing how fast the pages load and no advertisements. This site is just frustrating, and it's a shame.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

where was your main bonding jumper the original way you were doing it? one in each panel?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

cabletie said:


> I usually use the full site on my iPhone. About a month ago the adds took over again. The whole page was covered with a guy putting glue down for a sub floor. I could read about one "new post listing" above the add and maybe one sentence of the new post.
> 
> So I figured this site needs the adds more than it needs me. Last week I checked in and it switched me over to enhanced Mobil. Now I can see the add is in the back as the post scroll past. Now all photos I have to click on to see. Most just show as broken links. If I do see a picture, when I zoom in it crashes the page.
> 
> I go to two non-electric forums and it's amazing how fast the pages load and no advertisements. This site is just frustrating, and it's a shame.


Yes I am aware of that and right now the chief is working on the issue but I dont know how much they slove it so far.

But some members told me just put ad blocker that will clear it up a bit.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

I understand your frustration too Cabletie.


I run an adblocker for the last couple years or so. Just the other day my desktop started up with the adblocker disabled for some reason when I hopped onto this site.


I couldn't believe the amount of ads, it is beyond ridiculous. I can imagine having a few for paying the bills, but this site is literally wallpapered with them. It's so distracting I couldn't even focus on reading the threads.


Whoever is in charge needs to take a step back and inject some common sense into how much advertising should be allowed. If it's an issue they are working on, I'm not sure why it isn't something that hasn't been handled promptly.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

Wiresmith said:


> i'm still looking for a clear code explanation but is one of those panels a sub panel? right now you have to turn off 2 switches to disconnect the service and i'm thinking there may have to be one switch that disconnects the service alone. i will keep looking into the code later though, right now i don't have code proof that its required, just using my understanding of the intention of the service disconnect




You can have two switches but the disconnects have to be grouped 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Drsparky14 said:


> You can have two switches but the disconnects have to be grouped
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i agree, i read through the sections. they do also have to be very well labeled and at the point of entrance


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