# unions Future in the Electrical industry.



## 1RadJon (Oct 23, 2018)

5th year Apprentice here. trying to get a consensus of the direction of this trade and what role the union will play in it.
long time lurker first time poster.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter Frampton used to have the same thoughts..........


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

1RadJon said:


> 5th year Apprentice here. trying to get a consensus of the direction of this trade and what role the union will play in it.
> long time lurker first time poster.


the union will successfully target the lucrative markets in our 
trade and kick back the "crumbs" to the non union businesses.

If your question is motivated by you possibly considering leaving 
the union after your apprenticeship is over I would stay union if
I'm in your position.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Welcome to Electrician Talk.
Thanks for taking the time to fill out your profile.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard @1RadJon!

Enjoy your ride here.

Overall you will find the union will always have better training, pay, and benefits over non union.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Welcome aboard @1RadJon!
> 
> Enjoy your ride here.
> 
> Overall you will find the union will always have better training, pay, and benefits over non union.


But if you want to work in rural America the union is not an option in most small towns.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

If you look at the union as the largest contractor of skilled electricians then it has a bright future. 
If you need hundred of fully qualified people on a job you have to choose between hiring them (and laying them off at the end), Dealing with lots of small contractors or simply using the union. On paper union labor is not that expensive compared to the other options.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

tmessner said:


> But if you want to work in rural America the union is not an option in most small towns.


So work in the urban areas for 20 years and then semi retire to a nice country location.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

I enjoy shooting rifles in my backyard. Peeing behind a tree, it is easy to potty train boys in the country. the whole backyard is an outhouse.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

A coworker of mine once saw a hooker cleaning up in a puddle behind a factory. I guess they train em' different depending on where you live.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

cabletie said:


> A coworker of mine once saw a hooker cleaning up in a puddle behind a factory. I guess they train em' different depending on where you live.


:vs_laugh:daaaammmmnn


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

tmessner said:


> I enjoy shooting rifles in my backyard. Peeing behind a tree, it is easy to potty train boys in the country. the whole backyard is an outhouse.


what cities have you been to? they sound nice, no shooting or public indecency.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

There are a lot of non-union electrical contractors that just keep growing and are able to do any job any union contractor(s) can do now, the union is definitely in a worse spot now than they have been(not as bad as when they were starting though). there are also many non-union employment agencies that serve the same purpose as the union hall for large projects to get temporary workers to contractors for a particular project, they have as large of labor pools as the union and know the ins and outs of the law to bring up herds of Guatemalans and Mexicans. I'm not optimistic on the direction of the union. From my perspective the union is only working on taxing it's members, although i like the new president and hope that changes.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Non union can’t do every job, due to the manpower that is needed, customers change time frames constantly and may need 100s at the drop of a hat. Getting 500 qualified men working within a week isn’t an easy task , unions can do that.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

360max said:


> Non union can’t do every job, due to the manpower that is needed, customers change time frames constantly and may need 100s at the drop of a hat. Getting 500 qualified men working within a week isn’t an easy task , unions can do that.


so what happens to the job if the customer wants more than the union can supply it stops and doesn't get done?

in many markets like local 3 union would definitely get a job done like your describing quicker than non-union, that doesn't mean non-union can't do the job. it may just take longer.

And if there was a non union job large enough i'm sure they know how to rent buses and go throw hardhats on those thousands that are walking this way right now actually, if all you want is bodies. i know you said qualified but i can teach a monkey to pull AC or glue pvc together.


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## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

Wiresmith said:


> There are a lot of non-union electrical contractors that just keep growing and are able to do any job any union contractor(s) can do now, the union is definitely in a worse spot now than they have been(not as bad as when they were starting though). there are also many non-union employment agencies that serve the same purpose as the union hall for large projects to get temporary workers to contractors for a particular project, they have as large of labor pools as the union and know the ins and outs of the law to bring up herds of Guatemalans and Mexicans. I'm not optimistic on the direction of the union. From my perspective the union is only working on taxing it's members, although i like the new president and hope that changes.[/QUOTE
> 
> Yes they do have temp agencies and non union could prolly man some big jobs .
> 
> ...


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

277
i agree there's a difference, many of them, one big one like you suggested safety, i agree. i'm just saying they can still do the work, they would likely be less safe, and on the less common huge jobs they would likely take longer. but they could still do and complete the job. it doesn't make sense to measure only related metrics of union vs non-union to form a conclusion that they couldn't complete the project. i'm only saying they could complete the project, yeah the process of the job would be different. many non-union shops do big work, big pulls, big gear, its not rocket science.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If I knew anything about the future I'd park my butt on Wall Street, not an electrical forum.



> Yes they do have temp agencies and non union could prolly man some big jobs .


One of the largest firms in Washington DC is open shop.



> The quality of wrk and if the job would come out on time correct and
> And be a safe job site is questionable .


Have you ever worked open shop? It sounds like you are an apprentice that drank too much kool-aid. 



> When you go union you at least know the men have had five years of schooling band training plus all the safety and *OSHA classes that go along with it* .


Due to insurance requirements most decent size, open shops require this training.



> Plus the union guys are used to doing the hudge projects hudge parlllel feeders , hudge switchgear ,
> Generators , motor controlls plcs, etc ,


I repeat myself

Have you ever worked open shop? It sounds like you are an apprentice that drank too much kool-aid. 


I have seen crap open shop work and quality work I can say the same for union projects. The union does not have a market on quality.


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## MrThrills (Jan 7, 2019)

brian john said:


> If I knew anything about the future I'd park my butt on Wall Street, not an electrical forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This. There's lots of locals and union members out there that need a wakeup call. Problem is, work is booming across the country. My area is having a hard time filling calls. It's good for the union boys, and I'm sure L.U.s are enjoying the phat assessment $$$, but non-union's soaking up the gravy and growing, which many halls are turning a blind eye to.



Fortunately, my local isn't one of them. If the IBEW wants to stay competitive it has to keep increasing membership, getting apprentices, helping ambitious JWs open their own shops, and broadening the training and classes available to both apprentices and journeymen. My local does all of the above.


Personally, I think the key for alot of locals is targeting residential and small commercial work -- you'd be tapping a market that has low union representation, while at the same time cutting off the competition. 



Industrial, utility, and prevailing wage jobs have been a golden goose for union labor, but nothing lasts forever.


All that aside, here's the important point for OP to consider:
If you're good, you can make a decent living regardless of what side you're on. But if you leave your local, it can be hard to come back.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Wiresmith said:


> There are a lot of non-union electrical contractors that just keep growing and are able to do any job any union contractor(s) can do now, the union is definitely in a worse spot now than they have been(not as bad as when they were starting though). there are also many non-union employment agencies that serve the same purpose as the union hall for large projects to get temporary workers to contractors for a particular project, they have as large of labor pools as the union and know the ins and outs of the law to bring up herds of Guatemalans and Mexicans. I'm not optimistic on the direction of the union. From my perspective the union is only working on taxing it's members, although i like the new president and hope that changes.


Just like he said. That does nothing for our trade on the working side except exploit our bodies until we can't produce. Just like picking lettuce.


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