# Mag locks and egress



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Motion device w/backup RTE button on 30 second timer. F/A system normally also unlocks. All on battery backup. 

I have no idea what the life safety code is on this, but the install I listed above is pretty typical of 99% of the egress type mag locks and solenoid bolts I've done. I just follow the plans. 

I wonder if it's required to be engineered in CA, since it effects egress and could potentially leave someone stuck inside?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I have completely lost track of the rules on this, but I think it depends on the occupancy type as well as occupancy load. The local ahj might have their own interpretation anyway, and you might be well served to ask the piper.

I think part of the purpose of the crash bars is the manual egress regardless of electrical/fire alarm/control failures of any kind.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

wildleg said:


> I think part of the purpose of the crash bars is the manual egress regardless of electrical/fire alarm/control failures of any kind.


That and you don’t have to think or look for it, it’s right on the door. Problem is that a crash bar won’t defeat a stuck on maglock.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

FWIW this might work for you...
http://www.sdcsecurity.com/electric-strikes.htm


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> FWIW this might work for you...
> http://www.sdcsecurity.com/electric-strikes.htm



Not so good for double doors unless one side can be affixed so that it can't be pushed open.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

five.five-six said:


> With Californis’s inviteing homless policies and laws, we have a lot of homeless people everywere.
> 
> As a result, I am getting a lot of businesses asking for a way to keep people from just wandering in their lobby to defecate, nap, have sex or smoke some drugs. Yes, this is an actual problem.
> 
> ...


One movement of hand is require for egress if in fact it is an egress door. A touch plate is ugly on a glass door though. Another option is an automatic opener switched off of an exit button, that will meet the one hand movement rules.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I don't know all the codes because I pretty much build to plans and specs, and a phone call to the vendor. 

When it comes to mag locks, I thought you always need an emergency exit button. So a mushroom button under a guard that breaks the circuit without the head end equipment is required next to the door. In academic settings we have even used a guard that has a siren that goes off if opened. I guess they wanted to deter students from disabling the lock.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

The ones I put in, had the RTE in the ceiling, and a door open switch with a glass tube in it, that broke when it was used.

Although, when power went out, and after back-up batteries died, all the doors were unlocked.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

There are a couple of factors. Fail safe and fail secure. Fail safe doors with mag locks are un powered in a power failure scenario . This is used for general public mag lock doors. Fail secure are not supposed to be maglocked with a push to exit button , because now it takes two moves of the hand to get out the door. Fail secure is powered during outages (till the battery backup dies) . So for fail secure doors we used touch sensitive panic bars that would cut power to the mag lock for a set determined period, usually working in conjunction with magnetic reed switches in the door frame and door to tell the plc or computer we hooked it up to to not restore power to the mag lock till the reed switch closed again. (and alert security of door position if somebody props the door open. Guys- I did this chit for over 5 years and 1700 doors of all types. Double doors with 2 mag locks, single doors with maglocks, electric strikes, powered bolts, you name it. Also high security vehicle gates. At airports. I got big money out of that business. Big. Then we had the great crash of 07....................grrrrr


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

This sounds like a question for a local or state code enforcement officer of public safety.
Why not call him/her and ask ?


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Well chit. So much for my two cents on a subject I've been doing for 30 years.

:sad:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

LARMGUY said:


> Well chit. So much for my two cents on a subject I've been doing for 30 years.
> 
> :sad:


Go, we are all ears bro........


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

The original question was:



> Will a motion detector inside the lobby to release the maglock suffice? An exit button or must it be a crash bar?


Y'all covered it completely. 

Prior to the 2009 IBC You had to have two forms of egress i.e. a request to exit motion sensor and a 30 second release button. In the 2009 the on-the-door crashbar either mechanical break or touchsense can be utilized alone.

Section 1008.1.9.8 – Electromagnetically Locked Egress Doors, the door-mounted release device can be used instead of the sensor and emergency push button.

The section does not require the mag-lock to release upon activation of the fire alarm or sprinkler system when a door-mounted release device is used.

For jurisdictions using NFPA 101, a new section was added in the 2009 edition. 
Section 7.2.1.5.5 Electrically Controlled Egress Door Assemblies. The requirements are the same as the IBC, but there is no limitation on occupancy types and no restriction related to panic hardware.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Notwithstanding the NEC the life safety code is going to arise on this job. Biggest challenge about life safety code is that local fire marshal gets to decide what it says and how he enforces it, as well as in many cases unlimited opportunity for amendments & ordinances. Generally speaking, if you comply with life safety code you comply with building code.

Suggest contacting local fire marshal prior to spending money.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I was finishing up in a building that automatically locked at a certain time, unbeknownst to me. I took a load of stuff out to the truck and went to the door to get the rest, and it was locked. I tore the cardboard back off a tablet and sailed it between the gap of the double doors and the motion sensor caught it and unlocked the door. Pro tip. :wink:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I was finishing up in a building that automatically locked at a certain time, unbeknownst to me. I took a load of stuff out to the truck and went to the door to get the rest, and it was locked. I tore the cardboard back off a tablet and sailed it between the gap of the double doors and the motion sensor caught it and unlocked the door. Pro tip. :wink:


macmikeman now proceeds to attempt to get the nearby local branch bank doors to open after hours........... oh wait...... it was all in vain........... the new x generation local branch banks all converted to Apple Store Style and there is no money or vaults anywhere now. It became cashless....... 


Most of my old crew would park in the airport parking building which ran at that time around 20 bucks for an 8 hour ticket. But I had a warehouse inside the parking structure where I kept 4 golf carts with AOA stickers on them and my guys would spin the golf carts over to the parking entrance , run thru the entry gate, get a fresh new ticket spit out, and use that one to drive out with a zero pay as long as they got out within 15 minutes of punching the ticket spitter button............. pro tip. :wink: We did this for over 5 years till they finally figured out what we were doing and forced me to end the practice..................


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I used to have my own FOB from a majority of my customers.

Had FOB's and cards in my van, and probably 50% of the time, I had to make 2 trips to the truck to get the right one.


Pretty embarrassing when your swiping a card, instead of a FOB for a couple minutes with people looking at you.


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> ... I tore the cardboard back off a tablet and sailed it between the gap of the double doors and the motion sensor caught it and unlocked the door. ...



There are PIR detectors made to be used together to prevent that. Innermost detector has to fire first for Outermost detector to unlock door. I used the *DS160*, although others are bound to make the same thing.


If there are exit devices on the doors now, see about getting electrified exit devices of the same model; No motion or button required, but you might have to do something for Fire Department access. Check the device for labels to determine whether it's a fire rated exit device.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

GrayHair said:


> There are PIR detectors made to be used together to prevent that. Innermost detector has to fire first for Outermost detector to unlock door. I used the *DS160*, although others are bound to make the same thing.
> 
> 
> If there are exit devices on the doors now, see about getting electrified exit devices of the same model; No motion or button required, but you might have to do something for Fire Department access. Check the device for labels to determine whether it's a fire rated exit device.


No doubt. 

I've seen some that will ignore foot traffic moving across the face from the sides and must be approached straight on. Mostly on automatic sliding doors. I suspect there's a large variety of theses door sensors.


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> No doubt.
> 
> I've seen some that will ignore foot traffic moving across the face from the sides and must be approached straight on. Mostly on automatic sliding doors. I suspect there's a large variety of theses door sensors.


Undoubtedly, but not all will meet the "fail safe" requirement.


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