# Hot water heater bonding



## Raggamffin (Mar 29, 2012)

Tried searching for this and couldn't find an answer. People at work keep telling me hot and cold water pipes at hwh must be bonded, but have no code section to show me. Is it in the NEC, and why if in and out of hwh are already connected does it need to be bonded. Thanks


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Just like the insides of water meters there are some times not all metal to metal connections. Here it is not a requirement to bond hot and cold, but I do it with new services or panel changes I mean how much is a few feet of ground wire and (2) clamps.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Raggamffin said:


> Tried searching for this and couldn't find an answer. People at work keep telling me hot and cold water pipes at hwh must be bonded, but have no code section to show me. Is it in the NEC, and why if in and out of hwh are already connected does it need to be bonded. Thanks


You answered your own question. :thumbsup:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Raggamffin said:


> Tried searching for this and couldn't find an answer. People at work keep telling me hot and cold water pipes at hwh must be bonded, but have no code section to show me. Is it in the NEC, and why if in and out of hwh are already connected does it need to be bonded. Thanks



Take a look at page 14 here:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/publications/pdf_ccc/ccc_sp06.pdf

*"Who’s Got the Bonding Jumper?"*

While this is from 2006, the NEC [2011 or 2008] has not changed substantially in regards to the cited article from the 2005 edition. [ 250.104(B) ]


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

..... read 250.104 (B) especially the last sentence. Which means, if you bring 220v to a water heater, the equipment ground for the ckt. feeding it is all you need.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

360max said:


> ..... read 250.104 (B) especially the last sentence. Which means, if you bring 220v to a water heater, the equipment ground for the ckt. feeding it is all you need.


Did you read the link I posted?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Celtic said:


> Did you read the link I posted?


There is nothing in that code section that automatically requires a bonding jumper between hot and cold at a water heater. 

Hot and cold systems are almost always bonded together by the tub and shower valves.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

note in areas with gas 250.104(a)(b)...when I do a meter resi upgrade Bond all three at the tank....some inspectors here want it...some pay it no never mind...so for 1 more clamp and 1 more foot of wire I just do it...and check table 250.66 for your sizing too...fwiw..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

RGH said:


> note in areas with gas 250.104(a)(b)...when I do a meter resi upgrade Bond all three at the tank....some inspectors here want it...some pay it no never mind...so for 1 more clamp and 1 more foot of wire I just do it...and check table 250.66 for your sizing too...fwiw..


No, don't just 'do it' make the inspector produce a code section that requires it.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

I have talked to 1 guy in particular and he looks at it like this "with all the pipe dope and or Teflon tape etc the plumbers use it makes sense" para phrase)....so to placate him I do it...I agree the code states "where the systems may become energized" is a little loosy-e-goosy...I can see the argument..so to me small potatoes..$3 I figure in keep the peace and make things sail-a-long...In NYS we have City, Town and private inspections..we also have NYS supplemental codes...so things can and do get strained at times from job to job...so I just try to be consistant...you know the drill..from nitpicker to a glance and wink...we have em all here.:no:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

BBQ said:


> There is nothing in that code section that automatically requires a bonding jumper between hot and cold at a water heater.
> 
> Hot and cold systems are almost always bonded together by the tub and shower valves.


While I understand what you are saying - and this has probably been debated before - I have some questions:
- are the mixing valves UL rated for that purpose?
- are they required to be?
- if the valve is switched, will the replacement carry the bond also?
- does it meet the definition/intent of "intentionally grounded or bonded" ?
- etc

The commentary following 250.104 in the 2011 NECH, while unenforceable, does offer some food for thought....











Regardless of the debate, NJ appears to have taken the stance that a bonding jumper at the HW is a requirement, the PC may install it, no electrical permit is required and the PI will sign off on it.

It would be nice if the same "courtesy" was extended to the EC so we could swap out elec HW units.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

BBQ said:


> No, don't just 'do it' make the inspector produce a code section that requires it.





RGH said:


> ...so to placate him I do it......I can see the argument..so to me small potatoes..$3 I figure in keep the peace and make things sail-a-long...



How far would you be sailing if that needed to be done on a 500+ unit development ....and you forgot to add that $3 [plus labor, etc etc] to your bid numbers ...plus whatever else the EI pulls out of his hat ?

BBQ does have a point and IMHO, it is valid.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Celtic said:


> How far would you be sailing if that needed to be done on a 500+ unit development ....and you forgot to add that $3 [plus labor, etc etc] to your bid numbers ...plus whatever else the EI pulls out of his hat ?
> 
> BBQ does have a point and IMHO, it is valid.


good question...I own 2 different businesses..and operate one in two different states...having said that I will depart and ounce of wisdom here ...one of my favorite quotes..."the devil hides in the details...because he can..." check..re-check..and re-re-recheck your quotes...my answer was in my other statment..be consistant...gas/cold/hot always...:thumbsup:..and for a slice of humble pie.. I still at 51 make plenty of mistakes...on big jobs many sets of eyes can make the difference up front..one of my faults is I try to do too much...having trouble correcting that still..:no: one thing I learned years ago was to make detailed list of job needs..I formated that on the home system so I carry that with me to bid jobs see details..:thumbsup: you can never be to prepared..to be successful be detailed..lawyers love details...because thats how ya get people..


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

RGH said:


> good question.....


Some days you're the bug...some days you're the windshield....I've been both this week alone :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Celtic said:


> While I understand what you are saying - and this has probably been debated before - I have some questions:
> - are the mixing valves UL rated for that purpose?
> - are they required to be?
> - if the valve is switched, will the replacement carry the bond also?
> ...


How is a mixing valve any diffrent than the countless elbows, valves, tees that we count on to bond the cold water together?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

BBQ said:


> How is a mixing valve any different than the countless elbows, valves, tees that we count on to bond the cold water together?



I have no idea...I am not a plumber and I didn't/don't install them.

Have you read the link I posted [not 250.104]?


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