# 2014 and dishwashers



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I thought this would be better on a new thread..

According to EC Magazine article about code changes for 2014..

Dishwashers need to have GFCI protection and the "protective device installed at the origin of the branch circuit"

Some of you were going to use a countertop GFCI.. that won't fly according to this..


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

If only the cmp would consider a protective device large enough to go around one of these inbound from China .....:whistling2:








~CS~


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

B4T said:


> I thought this would be better on a new thread.. According to EC Magazine article about code changes for 2014.. Dishwashers need to have GFCI protection and the "protective device installed at the origin of the branch circuit" Some of you were going to use a countertop GFCI.. that won't fly according to this..


So combination breakers is essentially what youre saying.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Next72969 said:


> So combination breakers is essentially what youre saying.


As far as I know there are no AFCI/GFCI breakers on the market.


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> As far as I know there are no AFCI/GFCI breakers on the market.


Let me correct myself,i shouldve said thats what to expect, or something along those lines.


----------



## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Wait, why would a dishwasher recept be AFCI?


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

3xdad said:


> Wait, why would a dishwasher recept be AFCI?


 http://www.iaei.org/blogpost/928475/165827/Analysis-of-Changes-2014-NEC

Stole this from the other thread


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

3xdad said:


> Wait, why would a dishwasher recept be AFCI?


Because the manufacturer wants to sell more AFCIs.


----------



## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

Too many GFCIs in general and i do not believe a dishwasher is a good candidate for GFCI protection. we are going to see a lot of nuisance tripping


----------



## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

Mshea said:


> Too many GFCIs in general and i do not believe a dishwasher is a good candidate for GFCI protection. we are going to see a lot of nuisance tripping


Blatant troll post.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

KGN742003 said:


> Blatant troll post.


No.. just his personal opinion... same as yours..


----------



## Mike D (Sep 16, 2008)

It appears that we will have to put Dishwashers, Microwaves, Countertop GFCI, Refrig, etc, etc on AFCI. 

So we will have an AFCI circuit protecting a GFCI outlet, protecting a toaster. sheese.....


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Eventually it seems like everything will have afci and gfci protection.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Nevermind


----------



## Mike D (Sep 16, 2008)

210.8 d


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Where in the 2014 does it state the dishwasher must be gfci. It needs afci only is what I thought


210.8(d) apparently


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The gfci does not have to be at the beginning of the circuit but the afci does. Sorry about the other post



2014 nec said:


> 210.8(D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit. GFCI protection
> shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwashers
> installed in dwelling unit locations.


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The gfci does not have to be at the beginning of the circuit but the afci does. Sorry about the other post


I like how u quoted the 2014 nec lol


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> As far as I know there are no AFCI/GFCI breakers on the market.


There used to be but I agree I think that dropped them as no one was using them. I am pretty certain ge made them at one time but I may be mistaken.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Next72969 said:


> I like how u quoted the 2014 nec lol


I do that alot so others know the source


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The gfci does not have to be at the beginning of the circuit but the afci does. Sorry about the other post


I'm just surprised EC Magazine got it wrong.. :blink::blink:


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Bkessler said:


> Eventually it seems like everything will have afci and gfci protection.


 I believe this statement to be very accurate.


----------



## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

MHElectric said:


> I believe this statement to be very accurate.


Reality is the AFCI does not work as designed.....lol...
BIG MONEY.....


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Bkessler said:


> Eventually it seems like everything will have afci and gfci protection.





MHElectric said:


> I believe this statement to be very accurate.


Two thoughts...

1) If they are going to require AFCI protection, why limit where you have to install them? Couldn't an arc happen on any branch circuit?

2) If they are going to mandate AFCI protection for all branch circuits, I hope to all that is holy that AFCI mains do not become the norm.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

ce2two said:


> Reality is the AFCI does not work as designed.....lol...
> BIG MONEY.....





Deep Cover said:


> Two thoughts...
> 
> 1) If they are going to require AFCI protection, why limit where you have to install them? Couldn't an arc happen on any branch circuit?
> 
> 2) If they are going to mandate AFCI protection for all branch circuits, I hope to all that is holy that AFCI mains do not become the norm.


I believe they can make a whole bunch of money if they go in this direction. Whether its safer or not, I dont know.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> There used to be but I agree I think that dropped them as no one was using them. I am pretty certain ge made them at one time but I may be mistaken.


Yes, there were combination AFCI/GFCI of the branch circuit and feeder type AFCI. As far as I know there are no AFCI/GFCI breakers of the combination type AFCI. 

The use of the term "combination" to describe the AFCI that is said to look at both series and parallel arcing faults was a poor choice of words as many still think that means that the AFCI also has GFCI protection.


----------



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Deep Cover said:


> 2) If they are going to mandate AFCI protection for all branch circuits, I hope to all that is holy that AFCI mains do not become the norm.


Or afci subpanels.. Electric stoves, dryers, hvac systems arent subject to this crap yet


----------



## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

The GC's are gonna love these 14 code cycle bids.

When are we gonna see three thousand dollar AFCI, GFCI, DAFCI (dumbass's fault circuit int...) smart loadcenters that will really look out for joe homeowner?


----------

