# Noob Union Question



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Idonttkknow said:


> So if I graduate from Chattanooga State Technical Community College next year with a degree in Industrial Electricity and go to IBEW will I still start as an apprentice?


It's completely up to that particular local.

You most certainly should start as a first year apprentice because no degree is worth even a minute of on the job training. 

But some locals will give you some credit and might start you as a second year or third year apprentice.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

still gotta interview, and all that fun stuff. with the degree you wont have to take the entry exam..

but you cant just show up and be like hey, i got a degree. make me an apprentice.


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## Idonttkknow (Sep 26, 2010)

I hope I get into the Union. I'm just excited that I'll be able to move out of my mom's house next year and keep my power on this time.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

now that's funny


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Idonttkknow said:


> I hope I get into the Union. I'm just excited that I'll be able to move out of my mom's house next year and keep my power on this time.


Have you seen what apprentices make, you have candles?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Idonttkknow said:


> I hope I get into the Union. I'm just excited that I'll be able to move out of my mom's house next year and keep my power on this time.


If not, Im sure one of your brothers will tell you how to steal power.


~matt


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Idonttkknow said:


> Chattanooga State Technical Community College


Man that is a mouthful, isn't there a shortened version?


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## Idonttkknow (Sep 26, 2010)

How do I find the pay scale for the local 175?


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

WOW!!!! Another person from Chattanooga knows about these forums??

I can tell you that 1st year makes $12.49 and 2nd year makes $13.80 something. 

However, from what I understand your degree in electrical from CSTCC doesnt mean much to the hall. You will still start out as a first year and will not get any incentives unless you have some sort of experience working in electrical construction and can prove it.

However, the JATC is accredited through CSTCC and you may need to talk to a man by the name of Keith Owensby. He can point you in the right directions. Good Luck to ya.


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> man that is a mouthful, isn't there a shortened version?


cstcc...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

App.Electrician said:


> However, from what I understand your degree in electrical from CSTCC doesnt mean much to the hall. You will still start out as a first year and will not get any incentives unless you have some sort of experience working in electrical construction and can prove it.
> 
> H.


That is another idiotic thing the union does they feel their education is the only one that counts.

NOW I KNOW this does not reflect the whole IBEW, but one time at a seminar an IBEW instructor told me those ABC's guys stole all our training, to attempt to better their program.


I asked him did they steal Ohm's law? He just had a puzzled look.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

They may let you test out of a year or two. But OJT is the way to go.


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## splitphase (Jan 8, 2009)

What I have learned in my local is that your prior education means nothing. If you are the fastest/most accurate electrician it does not matter. Our contractors could care less about what you know, as most of them don't have a clue what they are doing. Most foremnan become problem solvers for the company they are working for in the first place. The company keeps the guys that are part of their friends and family network, and the guys that work on everything live, overtime for regular price, etc. Basically, the spineless survive...... And the local does nothing except for threatening everyone to not critisize the local.


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## splitphase (Jan 8, 2009)

Basically, all the contractors that are allways up to date on all their payments to the union have a get out of jail free card. This is what the international wants. ++++++members/dues+++++++ My local is turning into one of the the biggest sweetheart union ever. Local 25 R.I.P.


I'm just not related to the right people, and I will not compromise with lowered standards.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

splitphase said:


> What I have learned in my local is that your prior education means nothing. If you are the fastest/most accurate electrician it does not matter. Our contractors could care less about what you know, as most of them don't have a clue what they are doing. Most foremnan become problem solvers for the company they are working for in the first place. The company keeps the guys that are part of their friends and family network, and the guys that work on everything live, overtime for regular price, etc. Basically, the spineless survive...... And the local does nothing except for threatening everyone to not critisize the local.


There are two sides to this coin, the membership THINK they are god's gift to electricity when in reality they stink on ice, they let their licenses lapse, they DO NOTHING to keep up with current trends and changes in the trade, except what they are hand fed by the foreman. Other than a foreman most of the men could be replaced with monkeys or laborers and productivity would rise on many projects.

So the foreman keeps his friends, seems logical why would I keep someone I do not like, family, why not if they are as productive as the other workers, men that work overtime, HMMMM decent guy concerned enough to work with the foreman to get the project done, basically then men willing to work suceed and the complainers, slackers and cry babies are gone.


I know this is a concept some union and open shop men find hard to grasp, but contractors WANT productive team players, we are here to make money. I do want to change your diaper, hear how Billy is playing country music and you want rock, hear how you cannot work OT, hear your going to the hall to file a grievance against me. I WANT MEN THAT WORK and WORK WITH ME not against me.

All that other crap workers CLAIM is in most cases HOG WASH. Because an employer hanging on to none productive workers will be out of business in short order.


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## Idonttkknow (Sep 26, 2010)

12.49? What about after I'm a journyman?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

idonttkknow said:


> 12.49? What about after i'm a journyman?


$12.50..........


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

brian john said:


> $12.50..........


i make around 15.50.... and that is c card pay


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Idonttkknow said:


> 12.49? What about after I'm a journyman?


Have you considered what market share is in Tennessee? You may not work very often...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by brian john
> $12.50..........





> i make around 15.50.... and that is c card pay



Yeah I make a bit more than 12.50 but my post was
SARCASM......


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

haha, i know. but im also outside of chicago. go about 20 miles north, and id make around 10/hr


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> .... Because an employer hanging on to none productive workers will be out of business in short order.


 
That's why sometimes I wonder how my boss does it. Then I remember, I'm the lowest paid guy in our department, I get the tightest bid contracts, and I can bill 7 hours to a customer in an 8 hr. day. The other guys get contract jobs usually ten times what mine are. I've even seen one 50 times what I would normally get! I'm not talking about a 1 month job vs. a 1 day job, I mean comparable amounts of labor and material. I put in a full 8 hrs every day when these other guys are at home in 7 or less. I take a half hour lunch, they take 1 and a half every day. I work like a madman, they take their sweet time. I worked with a guy (same position as me) for a week. I watched him all week closely. At the end of the week I had completed the job and he had completed his paperwork. 40 hours to complete paperwork that I would have completed in about one hour, with correct spelling. This is the same guy that told a customer that I installed the wrong type of light fixture to light an outdoor sign. You see, the lens was shattered because I used a "quartz light" and when rain hits the hot quartz it instantly shatters! This guy has thirty years in the trade and he's the best in the company, says my boss. 

I could go on and on. What do they have that I don't? Well, I don't hang out with them at lunch. I don't give them hours that they didn't work on my jobs. I don't allow hour lunches on my jobs. I'm a party pooper basically. I follow the NEC, which is probably my most annoying quality. This makes me undesirable and most likely the first to get laid off if need be.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CFL said:


> That's why sometimes I wonder how my boss does it. Then I remember, I'm the lowest paid guy in our department, I get the tightest bid contracts, and I can bill 7 hours to a customer in an 8 hr. day. The other guys get contract jobs usually ten times what mine are. I've even seen one 50 times what I would normally get! I'm not talking about a 1 month job vs. a 1 day job, I mean comparable amounts of labor and material. I put in a full 8 hrs every day when these other guys are at home in 7 or less. I take a half hour lunch, they take 1 and a half every day. I work like a madman, they take their sweet time. I worked with a guy (same position as me) for a week. I watched him all week closely. At the end of the week I had completed the job and he had completed his paperwork. 40 hours to complete paperwork that I would have completed in about one hour, with correct spelling. This is the same guy that told a customer that I installed the wrong type of light fixture to light an outdoor sign. You see, the lens was shattered because I used a "quartz light" and when rain hits the hot quartz it instantly shatters! This guy has thirty years in the trade and he's the best in the company, says my boss.
> 
> I could go on and on. What do they have that I don't? Well, I don't hang out with them at lunch. I don't give them hours that they didn't work on my jobs. I don't allow hour lunches on my jobs. I'm a party pooper basically. I follow the NEC, which is probably my most annoying quality. This makes me undesirable and most likely the first to get laid off if need be.


So have you learned your lesson? Are you going to play ball? Or are you going to remain the lowest paid guy because you won't conform to the trade?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

CFL said:


> That's why sometimes I wonder how my boss does it.


You kind of need to feel out the company culture and act accordingly.

Sounds like you are NOT working for a sweat shop. This is great!

I don't mind sweating for the shop, on the contrary, but I hate sweat shops. Sweat shops squeeze hardworking people like your self until you burn out after a few years, then they drop yur ass like a hot stone. If you work as hard as you say you do, then no doubt, your health will be knocking on the door after a while. Pace yourself accordingly, and take care of your health better.

That being said, if you are going to work like a wild man on crystal, then you can't hold others to your same standards, its not realistic. Let the economy cull the herd, and truth is, no one ever really knows whats going on in the office, especially at specialty contractors.

Finally, as a crew, all on the same job, you should break bread together at lunch and break. Unless the guy who goes off on his own is a smoker, then he's a loner, and everyone thinks he's weird for avoiding the crew. Bring the newspaper if you need distraction.


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## amhrdwd1 (Jul 10, 2010)

HackWork said:


> It's completely up to that particular local.
> 
> You most certainly should start as a first year apprentice because no degree is worth even a minute of on the job training.
> 
> But some locals will give you some credit and might start you as a second year or third year apprentice.


 
Same here in Maine. You can test to be placed as second, third year....etc. Agreed that hands on experience is worth it's weight in gold to just the degree. More so when your life depends on how you perform the work.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

You will get credit here for previous experience, but only for time served in the non-union apprenticeship, working for a non-union EC, in the same geographic area as the local. Also, I saw an apprentice who came from another local 1000 miles away, he had to re-apply to get transferred in, it took him a year, but then his hours transferred straight over.

Keep in mind your local maybe different. Honestly consider you may get no credit, as none of these rules are displayed anywhere.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

There are a lot (not all) of non-union contractors that use apprentices as laborers and go-fors. They are not really apprentices, just helpers or assistants. They are not there to learn, just to help the electricians out. The only things that they learn are what they see in between fetching material and digging holes. 

There is generally a different mentality in union electrical work. As a foreman, I have no problem getting material myself and bringing it to workers, journeymen and apprentices alike, so they can keep working. I also have no problem when I see an apprentice on a roll and his journeyman go for something that they need. 

Apprentices are there to be taught the trade, not to be cheap labor. If you let an apprentice into the union at a higher level when he hasn't had much real electrical training yet, you are doing *everyone* (including the apprentice) a disservice.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

http://ibew.org/jobsboard/



Job Info ID: LU: Classification: Inside Journeyman Wireman Special Skills: NA Duration: Hrs Per/Wk: Referal Hrs: 9am-Bk 1; 2pm - Bk 2 Local Info Location: Address 1: Address 2: Phone: Fax: Email: Web: Scale: Vacation: Annuity: Health/Welfare: Pension I: Pension II: Assessments: State Jurisdiction: Last Update: Other Information: NECA (intown shop) scale is $27.58. TVA scale is $24.27Assessments 2% LU, 1.5% EIAP This board was updated October 11, 2010. NECA Wage rates effective June 1, 2010. TVA Rates effective January 1, 2010. We currently have 60 JW's on book 1 and 389 on book 2. We are a daybook Local. You must be present to take a call. Book 1 callout - 9am; Book 2 callout (if jobs available) - 2pmJobline is 800-917-6660TVA Watts Bar Nuclear Unit 2 staffing issporadic. Volkswagen - Under construction. Calls have slowed for that site. Watts Bar Nuclear Plant - We anticipate calls there over the next few months. Book Movement Book I Status: Book I Count: Book II Status: Book II Count:


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

In local 3 here in nyc an electrical engineering degree would start you off at 4th year pay, about 17 bucks. you would still have to go through 5 years of electrical theory and some college classes in labor studies!!!

Also take it from me............
I have a academic background in electrical and it is nothing like what we do on the job!!!! A textbook is a poor replacement for actual hands on knowledge. Ive met plenty of engineers who thinks its possible to just run 4" gal all over with about 500 degrees of bends in a drop ceiling around duct work sprinklers and water lines and such.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> Control Freak;312186]In local 3 here in nyc an electrical engineering degree would start you off at 4th year pay, about 17 bucks. you would still have to go through 5 years of electrical theory and some college classes in labor studies!!!


Only an idiot would work for $17 per hour and hold a degree in electrical engineering. Entry level EE's can start out at 80k a year.



> Also take it from me............
> I have a academic background in electrical and it is nothing like what we do on the job!!!! A textbook is a poor replacement for actual hands on knowledge. Ive met plenty of engineers who thinks its possible to just run 4" gal all over with about 500 degrees of bends in a drop ceiling around duct work sprinklers and water lines and such.


This I totally agree with.


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