# My Apprentice Test giver is a true Asshole



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Get used to it. The world is full of his kind.


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## norcalbay (Jun 17, 2008)

I agree get used to it. Many foreman or journeyman unfortunately can be this exact way. In the field you will meet many of guys just like that. This is especially true toward apprentices. As one foreman once told me, "Apprentices are lower than whale **** and that sinks to the bottom of the ocean."
Good Luck!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Get used to it. The world is full of his kind.


 I second that.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm still trying to figure out whether these buttwipes are born this way, or do they go to a special school to become one?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I think it has something to do with the way there raised.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

He was probably a professional "proctor" ....just a few credits short of a being a "proctologist" :arabia:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

norcalbay said:


> I agree get used to it. Many foreman or journeyman unfortunately can be this exact way. In the field you will meet many of guys just like that. This is especially true toward apprentices. As one foreman once told me, "Apprentices are lower than whale **** and that sinks to the bottom of the ocean."
> Good Luck!


That's pathetic.

If I wanted to get that kind of attitude from someone I'd join the military.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> That's pathetic.
> 
> If I wanted to get that kind of attitude from someone I'd join the military.


You think apprentices are any different than "grunts" [in the most general terms].


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## kevgeez (Jun 2, 2009)

norcalbay said:


> I agree get used to it. Many foreman or journeyman unfortunately can be this exact way. *In the field you will meet many of guys just like that. This is especially true toward apprentices.* As one foreman once told me, "Apprentices are lower than *whale ***** and that sinks to the bottom of the ocean."
> Good Luck!


Oh gods.
:laughing:

Guys sorry to stain the forum with a female-like, emo rant.
I'm just pretty sure if i speak up about it when i was there, there's no way i'd get into apprentice school.


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

Haha get used to it. 

Construction work seems to attract some of the best people in the world and also some of the ****tiest ****-heads you'll ever meet. 

It's a love-hate kind of thing.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

boohoo


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Something the "A" hole super's and foreman's of the world forget, that apprentice you are yelling at today, might be your boss or owner one
day.

I have been hired by companies and see some of the previous "A" holes I worked for when I was young and in their words dumb. Now they are all super nice to me and brag that I was their apprentice. MOst have turned down the "A hole-ness as they age, but some are still flaming "A" holes.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

What I can tell by reading your post you just took the first step in becoming one of those a$$holes!!
Step 1 - scream and bitch about the person, be a degrading as you can.
Yep you covered that one :thumbsup:

Best way to deal with that is to just relax and let it go. It's tough I know, but it is the only way. Getting all pissy and worked up just gets you in a a zone that is not productive or healthy.
The old phrase Kill them with kindness is still true today. I'm not saying be a suck up, just don't get an attitude, keep it professional.

I agree that screaming and cussing is no way to teach, but it happens.


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## Pierre Belarge (Feb 3, 2007)

norcalbay said:


> As one foreman once told me, "Apprentices are lower than whale **** and that sinks to the bottom of the ocean."
> Good Luck!


 
It is funny, I was called the same while a first year apprentice...it is good to see thate is the same from coast to coast. 






manchestersparky said:


> What I can tell by reading your post you just took the first step in becoming one of those a$$holes!!
> Step 1 - scream and bitch about the person, be a degrading as you can.
> Yep you covered that one :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


 
This is perceptive, and a good warning shot over the OP's bow to keep him aware of his situation.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Perhaps lazy and uncouth are okay but the "fat" thing is unnecessary. There are plenty of people on this forum who are perhaps overweight but are still good, smart and hard working people. 

Being political correct is difficult but we should try. The comment about a "female like emo rant"--- again unnecessary. Men have just as many emo rants as women, they may just be over different issues.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Celtic said:


> You think apprentices are any different than "grunts" [in the most general terms].


Yeah.

We can quit.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Yeah.
> 
> We can quit.


 Quiting is for quiters.:laughing:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> Yeah.
> 
> We can quit.



So then quit.
No need to go all emo about a situation you have no control over.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Celtic said:


> So then quit.
> No need to go all emo about a situation you have no control over.


I would, and I have.

But I'm pretty content where I am at the moment.


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## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> That's pathetic.
> 
> If I wanted to get that kind of attitude from someone I'd join the military.


Or some other type of Frat house.... It is a distinctive culture among many IBEW locals.

The "B" in IBEW is for "Brotherhood". It may as well be "Street Gang" in some instances....:whistling2: ISGEW just doesnt have that ring to it....



> *Brotherhood*, with the direct meaning of the state of being a brother come first.
> 
> A social organization for undergraduate students, see Fraternities and sororities
> A sodality in religion
> ...




At one point in life I was a Teamster - which was a lot less like pledging into a fraterity or joining a street gang like the USMC.   (And I say that with a love of the Corps, having served. Semper Fi)


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

e57 said:


> which was a lot less like pledging into a fraterity or joining a street gang like the USMC.   (And I say that with a love of the Corps, having served. Semper Fi)


I was stationed In Guam a few years back, I wasn't a Jarhead I was a Flyboy, but I had a few run-in's with the Marines in bars and strip joints and these guys act like a bunch of hoodlums. Pickin' fights with everyone and anything that breathed. But the Irony of it was I wish I had joined the Marines instead of the Air Force; reason being these guys stood by each other thick and thin, like brothers. Air Force...haha...everyone kinda looked out for themselves and when **** went down kinda stuck their tail between their legs and hid behind their supervising seargent.


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## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

App.Electrician said:


> I was stationed In Guam a few years back, I wasn't a Jarhead I was a Flyboy, but I had a few run-in's with the Marines in bars and strip joints and these guys act like a bunch of hoodlums. Pickin' fights with everyone and anything that breathed. But the Irony of it was I wish I had joined the Marines instead of the Air Force; reason being these guys stood by each other thick and thin, like brothers. Air Force...haha...everyone kinda looked out for themselves and when **** went down kinda stuck their tail between their legs and hid behind their supervising seargent.


In Okinawa - certain bars were 'owned' by certain units or MOS's. There is nothing like an an entire unit of off-duty Marines in a brawl with another entire unit. (And there is also nothing like the Army dropping into the mix - who like that cohesion.) Like Frat's within a Frat. One messes with the other, sure. But when faced with opposition from the outside of both - both are one. (But the Army is still the Army...  And like wise the AF, and Navy and Coast Guard...)

Back on topic though - if the IBEW wanted to be a UNION in the truest sense, it would get rid of the exclusivity, and initiation rituals that are present in entrance, apprenticeship, and their oral interviews. If they really wanted to clean up the act - they could get rid of the rat stickers and the culture behind it.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

the IBEW is just about as relevant as the UAW is now.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

paul d. said:


> the IBEW is just about as relevant as the UAW is now.


That may depend on where you live. The IBEW still carries clout in many areas


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I'm still trying to figure out whether these buttwipes are born this way, or do they go to a special school to become one?


To quote Bill Watterson, "I think bullies spawn on damp locker room floors."


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

For all you IBEW haters out there, look in the front of your code book you will see who makes up many of the panels, IBEW and NECA. The IBEW key area is electrician safety. IBEW pushed for and got the clear areas around electrical equipment, and the new crash bars on electrical rooms. They are looking out for electrician safety, union or not.


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## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

drsparky said:


> For all you IBEW haters out there, look in the front of your code book you will see who makes up many of the panels, IBEW and NECA. The IBEW key area is electrician safety. IBEW pushed for and got the clear areas around electrical equipment, and the new crash bars on electrical rooms. They are looking out for electrician safety, union or not.


I know you are not referring to me... I rather like certain unions - Sure the IBEW is a union in some ways, but they are all bastions of nepotism, and cronyism by design. Workers rights - blahX2. But much like the Teamsters has gotten into "CONTROL", mainly by hook and crook in "SOME" areas of the country by selling votes to politicians. Take a look at California's Electrician Certification Program - (Full blown Fiasco) - It was born of buying out politicians for a voting base and support in elections. And what it has become in many ways is a "kick you out of the trade if you don't follow the convoluted rules we write" law. As well as a "PW work is ours" law. A market recovery program.... I call it a "fox in the hen house" law. Some have called it "Malice in Plunderland"

Sure - the NFPA has a lot of lobbyists from the IBEW and NECA, who doesn't want to get to write the rules they live by... Recently I got to learn a little about the code making process by submitting one of my own - it was surprisingly Onion free.  Anyone can do it.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> Something the "A" hole super's and foreman's of the world forget, that apprentice you are yelling at today, might be your boss or owner one
> day.
> 
> I have been hired by companies and see some of the previous "A" holes I worked for when I was young and in their words dumb. Now they are all super nice to me and brag that I was their apprentice. MOst have turned down the "A hole-ness as they age, but some are still flaming "A" holes.


 
That is so true- I have worked with a person overseas and 2 years later literally ran into him turning a corner in a mall in saudi arabi-the guy you screw over today might be your boss tomorow.


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## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

I worked for a former apprenti -  I'll never do that again. Helped him from Apprentice to JW to foreman, to getting his license and starting his own shop. 

He changed when he 'thought' he was the boss, or more likely when I didn't like the employee status our freindship had become... And he also thought he could go ride his bike all day instead of selling work - so I guess we both learned a few lessons. :blink:


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## Dan from Philly (Apr 6, 2009)

IME you usually find that mostly with union workers. But you work the positive angle. You join the union hoping one day to be the pisser not the pissee. JK!

As far as the guy at the Philly apprentice test Im almost positive I had the same guy. As far as refusing to open the door for someone 2 seconds after he closed it, they made a point to tell us before even filling out the application that was going to be the case and to make sure we get there early. The guy was very animated about that. I was waiting in my seat 35 minutes early with half a dozen other people. My attitude is if taht person didnt take that very clear advice serious than they wasted a lot of their own time.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

Dan from Philly said:


> IME you usually find that mostly with union workers. But you work the positive angle. You join the union hoping one day to be the pisser not the pissee.


 
I would not think this was a union-non union issue. People are a-holes everywhere.


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## Dan from Philly (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah, I know. Its just an observation. Than again most of the time Ive been around union guys they werent exatly thrilled to have nonU on the job so thats a factor. Ive actually seen guys threaten to shoot us (NOT IBEW!)


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Perhaps lazy and uncouth are okay but the "fat" thing is unnecessary. There are plenty of people on this forum who are perhaps overweight but are still good, smart and hard working people.
> 
> Being political correct is difficult but we should try. The comment about a "female like emo rant"--- again unnecessary. Men have just as many emo rants as women, they may just be over different issues.


Why should we try to be politcally correct? Instead, people that are overly sensitive should try to thicken their skin a little. It's a tough world out there. Fat is often a choice just like lazy, and they often go hand in hand. I know this thing hanging over my belt is completely my own doing.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

If one gets offended easily than I'm thinking getting into any trade may be a bad idea..
There will be a few on every job. Always!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Getting so a freaking comedian cannot tell a joke.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

brian john said:


> Getting so a freaking comedian cannot tell a joke.


Your comment offended me. I demand an apology and your resignation.


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## Wizard (Jun 14, 2009)

With a scant 200 hours left in my 'apprenticeship' I have to say that this has been one of the Worst experiences of my life. Never have I encountered such a dense population of complete and utter idiots, eotistical maniacs and dangerous (to themselves and others) people in a given group. It is a pity that the good and decent people in this trade are forced to endure the situations and circumstances created by the above. Twice now I have been forced to seek legal counsel to protect myself from the Union process. Can't wait to get my certificate and get as far from this mess as I can..... do yourself a favor, take College night classes and become upper management... good people at the top can weed out some of the ridiculous situations at the bottom.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

Wizard said:


> With a scant 200 hours left in my 'apprenticeship' I have to say that this has been one of the Worst experiences of my life. Never have I encountered such a dense population of complete and utter idiots, eotistical maniacs and dangerous (to themselves and others) people in a given group. It is a pity that the good and decent people in this trade are forced to endure the situations and circumstances created by the above. Twice now I have been forced to seek legal counsel to protect myself from the Union process. Can't wait to get my certificate and get as far from this mess as I can..... do yourself a favor, take College night classes and become upper management... good people at the top can weed out some of the ridiculous situations at the bottom.


Wizard- I am going to assume your post is not a comical rant- You are for a rude awaking if you think the people at the top care about you or your problems, very very few at the most. Have you ever considered that you might be part of the problem or even all of the problem you are having.
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY YOU NEED PROTECTION FROM THE UNION IF YOU ARE A UNION APPRENTICSHIP.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Actually, nevermind.

I'm putting in a week's notice tomorrow.

But not for the reasons related to this thread.


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## Wizard (Jun 14, 2009)

retired 7373 said:


> Wizard- I am going to assume your post is not a comical rant- You are for a rude awaking if you think the people at the top care about you or your problems, very very few at the most. Have you ever considered that you might be part of the problem or even all of the problem you are having.
> PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY YOU NEED PROTECTION FROM THE UNION IF YOU ARE A UNION APPRENTICSHIP.


Let me begin by explaining some internet etiquette to you, a post in CAPS is generally considered rude, impolite and a few other attitudes that you might want to consider putting into check. 
The first time I sought Legal Counsel was a situation where the foreman (along with the 'rat' general contractor in what was some sort of a frat house relationship) was; writing derogatory names on my tools with indelible markers (sharpies), discussing as 'funny' another employee's bi-polar condition in public with several people (not affiliated with the company or the IBEW) listening to the rant (this was at a Federal Government, VA psych facility), making unjust and unreasonable threats and conditions. He once started on me at 6:50 am because the battery on the cordless drill had 'died' on his side job the evening before, I had put it on charge at the end of the work day and he took it off the charger to use on a 'side' job after work, still not sure how that was my fault or how it benefited the contractor. I was in the military, I can take an ass chewing but... never, not ever was I treated in the demeaning and humiliating way anywhere in the world as I was by that man. 
The second time I am not at liberty to discuss as it involves a fatality, a wrongful death suit, coverup by Union officials and blatant disregard for safety rules, regulations, policy and law. 
In conclusion I will just say that the IBEW is more of a 'club' than a union in my humble opinion. My Great-Grandfathers (3 of them) were UMWA members as were my Grandfathers, so I grew up in a 'union' atmosphere. The IBEW is nothing close to the Brotherhood I was exposed to growing up and is little more than a country club for ******* bikers and squidbillies. Good working conditions are condusive to elevated productivity, poor working conditions are costly and counter productive. Does that answer your question 'Retired'?


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Post in CAPS is "Yelling" Not sure if thats rude..


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

Wizard,
Now that we got that out of the way about the caps and you and I are both educated.

I don't understand your situation andwish you the best.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Wizard said:


> With a scant 200 hours left in my 'apprenticeship' I have to say that this has been one of the Worst experiences of my life. Never have I encountered such a dense population of complete and utter idiots, eotistical maniacs and dangerous (to themselves and others) people in a given group. It is a pity that the good and decent people in this trade are forced to endure the situations and circumstances created by the above. Twice now I have been forced to seek legal counsel to protect myself from the Union process. Can't wait to get my certificate and get as far from this mess as I can..... do yourself a favor, take College night classes and become upper management... good people at the top can weed out some of the ridiculous situations at the bottom.


 
REAL MEN fight to change and BETTER the conditions under which they and others will work. FARIES and PUSSYS run away.


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

Wizard said:


> Let me begin by explaining some internet etiquette to you, a post in CAPS is generally considered rude, impolite and a few other attitudes that you might want to consider putting into check.
> The first time I sought Legal Counsel was a situation where the foreman (along with the 'rat' general contractor in what was some sort of a frat house relationship) was; writing derogatory names on my tools with indelible markers (sharpies), discussing as 'funny' another employee's bi-polar condition in public with several people (not affiliated with the company or the IBEW) listening to the rant (this was at a Federal Government, VA psych facility), making unjust and unreasonable threats and conditions. He once started on me at 6:50 am because the battery on the cordless drill had 'died' on his side job the evening before, I had put it on charge at the end of the work day and he took it off the charger to use on a 'side' job after work, still not sure how that was my fault or how it benefited the contractor. I was in the military, I can take an ass chewing but... never, not ever was I treated in the demeaning and humiliating way anywhere in the world as I was by that man.
> The second time I am not at liberty to discuss as it involves a fatality, a wrongful death suit, coverup by Union officials and blatant disregard for safety rules, regulations, policy and law.
> In conclusion I will just say that the IBEW is more of a 'club' than a union in my humble opinion. My Great-Grandfathers (3 of them) were UMWA members as were my Grandfathers, so I grew up in a 'union' atmosphere. The IBEW is nothing close to the Brotherhood I was exposed to growing up and is little more than a country club for ******* bikers and squidbillies. Good working conditions are condusive to elevated productivity, poor working conditions are costly and counter productive. Does that answer your question 'Retired'?


Just because of two situations, that has obviously scarred you, you are running for the hills. This does'nt make any sense. Why would you lower yourself to the levels of these guys by taking off when the times are tough. 

How about you stick it out and make yourself a better man for one and two don't give them the time of day to think that they got the better of you, which they most certainly have. Time to grow up and start living in the real world. It's about time to learn to leave your feelings at the door because your family and friends are going to suffer because you take the crap other people deal to you home with you.

When I goto work and I deal with the &hit bags that get off by yelling in my face and making me feel like total crap. I walk away laughing because I know that I'm better than this 'tool.' In this trade I've noticed that if you can't do that you'll be ate alive.

It's about time to make some money, worry about yourself, your kids, and your family and not let someone get the best of you by insults.

I love the IBEW, it IS a brotherhood. I've worked with guys that have stuck up for me and have put THEIR ticket on the line for me. I've worked with guys that have taken time past the regular work schedule to sit down and teach me power factors and voltage drop. I go out and drink with guys that watch my back as I do theirs. 

QUIT F'IN WHINING and MAKE SOME G.D. MONEY!


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> REAL MEN fight to change and BETTER the conditions under which they and others will work. FARIES and PUSSYS run away.


Here , Here!

Real men grow a pair and work to provide for their family no matter what the conditions.

Little girls run away because their expectations were too high.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

Everyone life is a learning experience. Wizard asked for an opinion and help with a problem. Cut him some slack, not everyone has superior people skills. His outer shell will harden with time and he will blow off all those jerks out there in life.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

retired 7373 said:


> not everyone has superior people skills. His outer shell will harden with time and he will blow off all those jerks out there in life.


Life is too short to stay and suffer an asshole. There are too many good people in the world looking for good help, and by staying put, you help neither them nor yourself. 

Unless you are barely competent, then you should stay put, be a suckup and a yesman, thats the only way you can hold down a job. Just be a nice guy and a shlt filter to those under your wing, thats all the Almighty could ask of you.

To the OP: What the hell made you decide to go union construction in Tennessee?? Look around, there aren't too many jobs with union guys working in TN. It is a bad time to get into the trade, so why would you make it worse by standing in the long line looking for work? WTF? Surely, your fellow forum members from the South are scratching their heads.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> I'm putting in a week's notice tomorrow.


Yah see, that's the great perk to being non-union, you can say, see yah later, and not have to sit at home and wait in line.

Another perk, Frasbee has got every single tool and probably a bunch of misc materials hanging around he needs to go out side-jobbing.

Just remember Frasbee, don't quit flat out, because then you can't get unenjoyment. Put it in terms like, I'll never make another profitable installation for you, so go ahead and give me a layoff.

Can't be terminated for working slow, I am sure a bunch of contractors here will say otherwise, but I speak the truth.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Yah see, that's the great perk to being non-union, you can say, see yah later, and not have to sit at home and wait in line.
> 
> Another perk, Frasbee has got every single tool and probably a bunch of misc materials hanging around he needs to go out side-jobbing.
> 
> ...


WOW-Aren't you a contractors dream employee- I think you might be exactly what you are talking about. As far as working slow-that is the same thing as stealing- as far as your know it all about being terminated for working slow- you dont have a clue-all a contractor has to put on a termination slip is reduction in force and you can't do anything about it. As far as union electricians there are thousands working in Tennessee and yes some are unemployed.
Enjoy your fathers day


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## augie47 (May 4, 2009)

Pierre Belarge said:


> It is funny, I was called the same while a first year apprentice...it is good to see thate is the same from coast to coast. .


now, as an instructor, you get called a whole different set of terms


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Life is too short to stay and suffer an asshole. There are too many good people in the world looking for good help, and by staying put, you help neither them nor yourself.
> 
> Unless you are barely competent, then you should stay put, be a suckup and a yesman, thats the only way you can hold down a job. Just be a nice guy and a shlt filter to those under your wing, thats all the Almighty could ask of you.
> 
> To the OP: What the hell made you decide to go union construction in Tennessee?? Look around, there aren't too many jobs with union guys working in TN. It is a bad time to get into the trade, so why would you make it worse by standing in the long line looking for work? WTF? Surely, your fellow forum members from the South are scratching their heads.




Not even worth it.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Anybody who believes that the union has it going on in Tennessee, well they are in denial.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> Anybody who believes that the union has it going on in Tennessee, well they are in denial.


 i got some IBEW friends from tn., that are working in az., and new mex. lots of travelers from tn.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> As far as working slow-that is the same thing as stealing-


Oh is that a fact Johnny Cochran? Working safely is the same thing as stealing... Tell me, how many people in the history of the world have been prosecuted for theft of employer's time because they took too long to complete a task?



> as far as your know it all about being terminated for working slow- you dont have a clue-all a contractor has to put on a termination slip is reduction in force and you can't do anything about it.


Exactly, and THAT allows the employee to collect benifits. And you can't do anything about that, either. :no:



> As far as union electricians there are thousands working in Tennessee and yes some are unemployed.
> Enjoy your fathers day


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Seems there's a lot of travelling to find work going on these days. Union and nonunion alike. I wonder if we all just went back home there'd be enough jobs locally?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wizard said:


> Let me begin by explaining some internet etiquette to you, a post in CAPS is generally considered rude, impolite and a few other attitudes that you might want to consider putting into check.


Boy there is an education we all needed NOT....LIKE DUH.




> The first time I sought Legal Counsel was a situation where the foreman (along with the 'rat' general contractor in what was some sort of a frat house relationship) was; writing derogatory names on my tools with indelible markers (sharpies),


You better get some kahonies boy, if that upsets you what are you going to do when they really start messing with you. GROW UP

FARIES and PUSSYS run away. F**KIN NUTLESS WONDER






> discussing as 'funny' another employee's bi-polar condition in public with several people (not affiliated with the company or the IBEW) listening to the rant (this was at a Federal Government, VA psych facility), making unjust and unreasonable threats and conditions. He once started on me at 6:50 am because the battery on the cordless drill had 'died' on his side job the evening before, I had put it on charge at the end of the work day and he took it off the charger to use on a 'side' job after work, still not sure how that was my fault or how it benefited the contractor. I was in the military, I can take an ass chewing but... never, not ever was I treated in the demeaning and humiliating way anywhere in the world as I was by that man.
> The second time I am not at liberty to discuss as it involves a fatality, a wrongful death suit, coverup by Union officials and blatant disregard for safety rules, regulations, policy and law.
> In conclusion I will just say that the IBEW is more of a 'club' than a union in my humble opinion. My Great-Grandfathers (3 of them) were UMWA members as were my Grandfathers, so I grew up in a 'union' atmosphere. The IBEW is nothing close to the Brotherhood I was exposed to growing up and is little more than a country club for ******* bikers and squidbillies. Good working conditions are condusive to elevated productivity, poor working conditions are costly and counter productive. Does that answer your question 'Retired'?


Welcome to the world of construction, maybe you were more cut out to work at a local politically correct institution were your delicate feeling won't be hurt.

You are going to be black balled and branded as a ROYAL PAIN in the tushie.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

In line with this topic. I run a shop that tries to help apprentices, We make arrangements to pick them up that is convenient to them, buy them starter tools, have loaned them company vehicles when theirs break, include them in bonuses, treat them fairly and help them with transfers. BUT and I mean BUT apprentices are not here to stir things up, they are here to learn and help. In 39 years of experience I have only seen apprentices mistreated to a level that is being discussed here and it was brought on by the apprentices and his lousy attitude.

When I was a new mechanic in the early 70's we had an apprentice (male) come into the material shed/office and rip the Playboy pin-ups off the wall and get into the foreman face about how Jesus would get him. Needless to say this guy had a tough road to hoe.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

brian john said:


> FARIES and PUSSYS run away. F**KIN NUTLESS WONDER
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
lol .


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> REAL MEN fight to change and BETTER the conditions under which they and others will work. FARIES and PUSSYS run away.


I don't entirely agree with this.

As others have said, it's not always even worth the time or effort to "fight" to change your conditions, 'specially since stirring the pot could just get you fired with a bad referral.

In my opinion "real men" should fight to change and better the conditions under which they and their families/communities should live, first and foremost.

Which is not to suggest that I don't believe that if you're working somewhere and recognize a legitimate work hazard, you shouldn't attempt to fix/change it. But lets be real, there are things that simply won't change because we want them to. And it's up to the individual to decide whether or not they can live with that or not.

I have more respect for a man that does _something,_ than nothing at all.


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> I don't entirely agree with this.
> 
> As others have said, it's not always even worth the time or effort to "fight" to change your conditions, 'specially since stirring the pot could just get you fired with a bad referral.
> 
> ...


I don't believe he wrote this for it to be taken word-for-word. 

I think that people should speak their beliefs and decide whether or not it is within their control. Then make an educated guess as to take action or leave it be. But by no means should someone quit a job because working conditions arn't to their liking. ESPECIALLY in the times like now when a job is as scarce as seeing bigfoot playing Gin Rummy with the Loch Ness Monster.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

kevgeez said:


> I cant believe the arrogance of this guy.
> Fat, lazy and uncouth. He literally cusred out one of the testers because he was a bit late.
> How does a person like this keep a job?
> Why cant this ****head be a little more professional during apprentice sessions?
> ...


this guy is probably doing you a favor by showing you what you might have to deal with at some point. if you are late expect an earful. if you can't handle a little abuse, maybe the job isn't for you. if you want someone powdering your ass and treating you like a special little child, maybe an acting career would be more suitable.

sorry for the rant


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## App.Electrician (Jun 2, 2009)

wildleg said:


> this guy is probably doing you a favor by showing you what you might have to deal with at some point. if you are late expect an earful. if you can't handle a little abuse, maybe the job isn't for you. if you want someone powdering your ass and treating you like a special little child, maybe an acting career would be more suitable.
> 
> sorry for the rant


:thumbup:

Well said!


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## augie47 (May 4, 2009)

Kevgeez, Take it one day at a time. The bad ones will only make you appreciate the good ones. You will get the respect you earned. Just be careful, learn from him the actions you wish to avoid once you have topped-out.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

kevgeez said:


> I cant believe the arrogance of this guy.
> Fat, lazy and uncouth. He literally cusred out one of the testers because he was a bit late.
> How does a person like this keep a job?
> Why cant this ****head be a little more professional during apprentice sessions?
> ...



Kevgeez,
Sorry you got rubbed the wrong way.I'm a local 98 member and I can tell you there is method to the madness.He gave that guy an ear full for a reason,There is around 2000 applicants a year and they only take between 50-75 kids.Now think about it if your late for the one chance at making a first impression for the entire year how are you gonna treat apprentice school or work for that matter. 
Some times the evaluators are a bit over the top but its to weed out the guys that can't take it.
Our program is very good, YOU get paid to go to school,the program is college credited, our apprentices make very good wages in a short period of time,and our program moves very quick.Most motivated students raise there tickets in between three and a half and four years.
The rate is high and a lot of guys apply three and four times be for getting accepted.
Although there are some people at my local that rub me the wrong way and are basically assholes most of the people you meet are very good,decent and smart people.
I'm not suggesting to kiss anyone's ass but just take it for what it is.

I hope you don't quit trying to get accepted.
The program is very rewarding.Are work situation is very good and the pay and benefits are excellent.
Good luck.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> There is around 2000 applicants a year and they only take between 50-75 kids. Good luck.


So we don't want to accept any a$$holes into the program, get it? Not when there is other guys out there who are both capable and smart, who have no chip on their shoulder.

It doesn't matter if you're the unholy spawn of Einstein and Michael Jordan, if you make waves in the house, you can go be someone else's problem child.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> So we don't want to accept any a$$holes into the program, get it? Not when there is other guys out there who are both capable and smart, who have no chip on their shoulder.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you're the unholy spawn of Einstein and Michael Jordan, if you make waves in the house, you can go be someone else's problem child.


No if you are the BA;s son!


Limiting apprentices has positive and negative affects, in a town where there is a high number of open shops these guys will be come your competition. But on the other side less workers better chance to push for better benefits and higher wages.

Problem is no one can predict the future and the need for trained men.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Union Slogan... "Better Trained.. A Better Job" Wonder where all those members that came from shops that got organized got their "Better Training"? 

Myself I've been on both sides a few times.. I've been told I know too much.. 
If thats true I guess the way to go is Union - non-union - and back.. 
Then Again was Service guy for 20+ years.. That tends to expose you to things some guys never see..


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## kevgeez (Jun 2, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Kevgeez,
> Sorry you got rubbed the wrong way.I'm a local 98 member and I can tell you there is method to the madness.He gave that guy an ear full for a reason,There is around 2000 applicants a year and they only take between 50-75 kids.Now think about it if your late for the one chance at making a first impression for the entire year how are you gonna treat apprentice school or work for that matter.
> Some times the evaluators are a bit over the top but its to weed out the guys that can't take it.
> Our program is very good, YOU get paid to go to school,the program is college credited, our apprentices make very good wages in a short period of time,and our program moves very quick.Most motivated students raise there tickets in between three and a half and four years.
> ...


heh...so you prolly know the Tester's name then.
I was hearing stories about him before i even knew his face. 
...He's stealing his paycheck. I think he's in his 60s...hopefully he'll retire soon.

To the other posters comments:
1-Yea i shouldnt have called him fat...but i'm just calling a spade when i see one. 
2-I did finish college(Wizard), but i'd rather work than sit at a desk any day. I'll get bored in a cubicle.
3-I did not come in late. I was early.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

So based on your very limited encounter you already determined that he is stealing his paycheck.You come off as a very sensitive person,maybe construction is not for you.You seem very concerned about his weight perhaps a career as a personal trainer or a dietician will be more geared towards your concern for peoples weight problems.
Your very in touch with your feminine side good for you!


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## kevgeez (Jun 2, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> So based on your very limited encounter you *already determined that he is stealing his paycheck*.You come off as a very sensitive person,maybe construction is not for you.You seem very concerned about his weight perhaps a career as a personal trainer or a dietician will be more geared towards your concern for peoples weight problems.
> Your very in touch with your feminine side good for you!


Thanks
:thumbup:
First impressions last forever. And NO it wasnt the first time i have ever seen him.

First you give me advice, then you change up and make sarcastic remarks?
gtfoh
I can't stand sarcasm. 
Do yourself a favor and just don't reply if thats what you're gonna do.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

I'm still encouraging you to stick with it,but sarcasm runs rampant in construction,union,non union what ever.I f you can't take a little ball breaking
well just light'n up a bit.:thumbsup:


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## WIREDOG (May 27, 2007)

a journeyman is a journeyman. they feel some sense of right to talk to you the way they do. put him in his place and i bet it stops. he try and run you off but thats because he knows you won"t take his crap. Everyone thats been doing this longer than you gives you the same spiel "when i was an apprentice...", that doesn't mean that it has to continue. When all is said and done he is still your brother and should respect you accordingly.


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## busymnky (Feb 16, 2009)

There's always gonna be someone you don't much like or who don't like you. In this case, that man was given a job to do, he's doing it the way he thinks will produce the result he wants. Most guys want to keep getting paid. So if he's doing it poorly in your opinion, than maybe you should be wondering whether he comprehends his job. Was he trained or did someone toss him in to sink? Did he lose a loved one recently?
By all means distance yourself from losers like him, but...
No matter where ya go, well, there ya are.
If you (any of you) should be out this way in the near future, I'll buy you a drink or three. Don't sweat the small stuff!


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## busymnky (Feb 16, 2009)

Everything is small stuff.
Black Elk


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