# Conductor Colors



## Bybirius (May 1, 2011)

Hello all, just joined the forum, you've got a great thing going here.The NEC states a grounding conductor shall be green, a grounded conductor white or gray. and the high leg on a 4-wire delta to be orange. But what about the grounded phase conductor in a corner grounded delta. White... I guess, It is a grounded conductor. But I've never run a circuit to a three phase motor in that situation and used a white conductor as one of the phases, just wouldn't seem right. What do you think?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Bybirius said:


> Hello all, just joined the forum, you've got a great thing going here.The NEC states a grounding conductor shall be green, a grounded conductor white or gray. and the high leg on a 4-wire delta to be orange. But what about the grounded phase conductor in a corner grounded delta. White... I guess, It is a grounded conductor. But I've never run a circuit to a three phase motor in that situation and used a white conductor as one of the phases, just wouldn't seem right. What do you think?


well any time we use a white or grey conductor it bis the Grouned conductor..

Get your code book and read it..ask Questions:thumbup:

Welcome to the forum...:thumbsup:


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## DCAC (Feb 11, 2011)

The only time I've seen white as a pahse conducter was with romex. Don't like it, but if its constant hot & marked, its allowed.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Bybirius said:


> ...But I've never run a circuit to a three phase motor in that situation and used a white conductor as one of the phases, just wouldn't seem right....


 I've never seen one either, but I believe that is how it would have to be connected. It doesn't matter that it's a also a phase conductor, the fact that it's grounded mean's it has to be identified by one of the methods in 200.6

-John


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Bybirius said:


> ... But I've never run a circuit to a three phase motor in that situation and used a white conductor as one of the phases, just wouldn't seem right. What do you think?


It is not a phase conductor, it is a grounded circuit conductor just like the neutral on the common 120/240 volt single phase system. The grounded conductor of a corner grounded delta system is covered by the rules in Article 200, just like any other grounded conductor.


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## Bybirius (May 1, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> It is not a phase conductor, it is a grounded circuit conductor just like the neutral on the common 120/240 volt single phase system. The grounded conductor of a corner grounded delta system is covered by the rules in Article 200, just like any other grounded conductor.


I respectfully disagree. It comes through the metering equipment like a phase conductor, it's connected through the main breaker like a phase conductor, and breakers (not fuses) are connected to it like a phase conductor. It's 120 degrees out of phase with the other two phases and it's 480 volts from that conductor to the other two phases. If it isn't a phase conductor there would be no connecting three phase motors to it. It's a phase conductor that is grounded in part to have a reference point to ground. If it's not grounded and there's a ground fault, there may be no return path to trip the overcurrent device. I agree that it's covered in Art 200 but not appropriately. I don't think Art. 200 properly addresses the problem. Also, If I installed a black, white, and blue coming out of the weatherhead , the poco (new word i learned in this forum) wouldn't know what to do with it.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bybirius said:


> I don't think Art. 200 properly addresses the problem.


Article 200 doesn't address what problem? You are looking for a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Bybirius said:


> I respectfully disagree. It comes through the metering equipment like a phase conductor, it's connected through the main breaker like a phase conductor, and breakers (not fuses) are connected to it like a phase conductor. It's 120 degrees out of phase with the other two phases and it's 480 volts from that conductor to the other two phases. If it isn't a phase conductor there would be no connecting three phase motors to it. It's a phase conductor that is grounded in part to have a reference point to ground. If it's not grounded and there's a ground fault, there may be no return path to trip the overcurrent device. I agree that it's covered in Art 200 but not appropriately. I don't think Art. 200 properly addresses the problem. Also, If I installed a black, white, and blue coming out of the weatherhead , the poco (new word i learned in this forum) wouldn't know what to do with it.


It comes through the metering equipment just like the grounded conductor of a single phase 120/240 volt system. In fact some single phase (two pole) equipment can be used on corner grounded systems. That is one advantage, you can use single phase equipment and not more expensive three phase equipment. 
There is no requirement that the grounded conductor of a corner grounded system be connected to a means of disconnect, although, as you stated, can be connected to a 3 pole breaker. This is something you can do with a single phase 120/240 volt system if you would want to.
You are correct that it is a phase conductor, but it is also a grounded circuit conductor and the rules in Article 200 apply. I prefer to use the term "phase conductor" for the ungrounded circuit conductors and the term "grounded conductor" for the grounded circuit conductor.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I believe that I learned...or at least heard, on this forum that a NEUTRAL is an intentionally grounded circuit conductor, but that, a GROUNDED circuit conductor is not necessarily a neutral.


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## Bybirius (May 1, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Article 200 doesn't address what problem? You are looking for a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.


Well , in my previous post; If I installed a black, white, and blue coming out of the weatherhead, I would have some explaining to do. I've worked with electricians who were baffled by this system. I will work with electricians in the future who won't understand it. Color coding a phase conductor like a neutral complicates things even more. I've never seen an installation or know of anyone who color codes the grounded phase conductor white. A lot of people (electrical contractors) I speak with say they don't know and alot say they would go with white or gray to a motor because the code requires it but nobody I've spoken with has actually done it. If more people worked with it, more people would see there's a problem. Maybe it's just an education problem.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bybirius said:


> Well , in my previous post; If I installed a black, white, and blue coming out of the weatherhead, I would have some explaining to do. I've worked with electricians who were baffled by this system. I will work with electricians in the future who won't understand it. Color coding a phase conductor like a neutral complicates things even more. I've never seen an installation or know of anyone who color codes the grounded phase conductor white. A lot of people (electrical contractors) I speak with say they don't know and alot say they would go with white or gray to a motor because the code requires it but nobody I've spoken with has actually done it. If more people worked with it, more people would see there's a problem. Maybe it's just an education problem.


I see no reason to change it just to make it easier for people to understand. If you are having problems with the poco hooking your services up wrong you should check to see what colors they use and code your tails appropriately. 

I hate dumbing down the trade.


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## Bybirius (May 1, 2011)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> It comes through the metering equipment just like the grounded conductor of a single phase 120/240 volt system.


Don, You're right, it does come through the metering equipment like a grounded conductor. My bad.


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