# My HOA wants me to pay for this....



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

The HOA people here are Natzis, and make monthly inspections so they can write up violations for all the homeowners. A few of us decided to walk with them while they did their inspection and see what really goes on. As we were walking, I found this:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

*So, I decided to....*

Give it a little tug. I noticed that the conduit was completely rusted through, and the extension wasn't attached to a box behind it. With just a little tug, the extension comes off the wall about 8" with romex, ran just through a hole in the wall into the back of the extension exposed. The broken conduit is now clearly visible. I point out a handful of violations, and ask if they will have it fixed? Well, they did, and sent me the bill, for $75.00. Here's how it was "fixed":

Extension box just scrwed back into the wood siding. Conduit still broken. Half of the plate gasket just laying on the ground.

So I call the contractor named on the invoice and asked him what the deal is. He said "Well, I just put it back the way it was." 

Im wondering how I should word the letter I'll send the HOA. The problem is, they don't know who I am. They sent the letter with the invoice to my friend because that's who I was walking with originally.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

is the $75 worth stirring up a bunch of chit where you live?


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

stuiec said:


> is the $75 worth stirring up a bunch of chit where you live?


Yes. Absolutely.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I figured the issue was everything is upside down. :laughing:


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

B W E said:


> Yes. Absolutely.


Nice, professionally worded letter, explaining in simple terms, why the repair is inadequate, accompanied by a quote to repair to code, and a proposal to inspect the entire complex to ensure that everyone's investment in their home is safe.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

480sparky said:


> I figured the issue was everything is upside down. :laughing:


Yah I don't know why my phone does that, noticed after I posted, sorry bout that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What type of situation are you in that the HOA is contracting work that you have to pay for?


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> What type of situation are you in that the HOA is contracting work that you have to pay for?


While we were following them around, I noticed the box pictured above about 1/4" off the wall and could tell it wasn't properly secured. I pointed it out to them and asked if that was the kind of stuff they were looking for. They said "there's nothing wrong with that." I said "of course there is, look at it." I grabbed the extension and barely pulled in it and because the conduit was completely rusted through, it all came out. They are charging me for the "repair."


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What I am asking is what type of situation you are in that the HOA is contracting work that you have to pay for?

Is this a house you own? A condo or townhouse? Who owns the property and electric?

An HOA usually governs a group of privately owned spaces or houses.


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## howabout (Mar 25, 2012)

If you where to get shocked they would be paying you.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Don't do stuff like that when witnesses are around.
You should have come back at night while walking your dog and given that box a swift kick.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

We do some work at a few Homeowner Associations. One we work in all the houses are the same color. I feel like I'm visiting a commune and David Koresh will step out of one of the homes to greet us.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

B W E said:


> While we were following them around, I noticed the box pictured above about 1/4" off the wall and could tell it wasn't properly secured. I pointed it out to them and asked if that was the kind of stuff they were looking for. They said "there's nothing wrong with that." I said "of course there is, look at it." I grabbed the extension and barely pulled in it and because the conduit was completely rusted through, it all came out. They are charging me for the "repair."


Why are they charging you specifically? If its an HOA wouldn't all the members share in the cost of repair?

Pete


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Pete m. said:


> Why are they charging you specifically? If its an HOA wouldn't all the members share in the cost of repair?
> 
> Pete


That's what I'm not following. The only reason I could see the HOA contracting the work is if its common space and the only reason I could see the HOA sending the bill to a member is if he caused the damage.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I live in a gated community. The CCRs have a bunch of limitations to various exterior stuff allowed on your house. Types of roofing, siding, paint colors, landscaping, etc. If you want to change or upgrade something you have to submit your proposal to the Architectural Committee for approval. The thing is, though, is that pretty much everything on the list is the stuff that goes on most houses around here anyway :laughing: It's kind of a pain in the ass but the neighborhood is really nice.

The emphasis is on maintaining the "natural" look of the area and they have really done a good job in the 30+ years this development has been around. To that end, I don't really have a problem with it other than waiting for approval blows. We want to redo our whole front yard because the previous owners kind of let it go so we have a proposal on the agenda for the next committee meeting.

There is a list of allowed plant & tree species but they are all native and indigenous so the landscaping here really fits into the coastal rainforest well.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

HackWork said:


> That's what I'm not following. The only reason I could see the HOA contracting the work is if its common space and the only reason I could see the HOA sending the bill to a member is if he caused the damage.


It could be possible that they are condos and this one happens to be BWE's... I don't know either.

Pete


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

Plain and simple they are charging him because he broke it after they told him nothing was wrong with it. He was proving them wrong without authorization.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

rlc3854 said:


> Plain and simple they are charging him because he broke it after they told him nothing was wrong with it. He was proving them wrong without authorization.


The truth is it was broke BEFORE he showed them. Just because they didn't have a trained eye doesn't change that fact. 

Just my humble opinion.

Pete


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

B W E said:


> While we were following them around, I noticed the box pictured above about 1/4" off the wall and could tell it wasn't properly secured. I pointed it out to them and asked if that was the kind of stuff they were looking for. They said "there's nothing wrong with that." I said "of course there is, look at it." I grabbed the extension and barely pulled in it and because the conduit was completely rusted through, it all came out. They are charging me for the "repair."


as they should, you ****ed with something that was not yours.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

B W E said:


> While we were following them around, I noticed the box pictured above about 1/4" off the wall and could tell it wasn't properly secured. I pointed it out to them and asked if that was the kind of stuff they were looking for. They said "there's nothing wrong with that." I said "of course there is, look at it." I grabbed the extension and barely pulled in it and because the conduit was completely rusted through, it all came out. They are charging me for the "repair."


I would not pay for anything.



HackWork said:


> What I am asking is what type of situation you are in that the HOA is contracting work that you have to pay for?
> 
> Is this a house you own? A condo or townhouse? Who owns the property and electric?
> 
> An HOA usually governs a group of privately owned spaces or houses.


The HOA is saying that he broke it after they said nothing was wrong with it.




rlc3854 said:


> Plain and simple they are charging him because he broke it after they told him nothing was wrong with it. He was proving them wrong without authorization.


 
:thumbsup:

In reference to your phone turning pictures over, do you have an iphone?
Go to the picture and tap it for the menu to show. Then tap "edit" there should be an arrow that curves. Tap it until you get the picture right side up, then hit "save". Poof, you're done.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

sounds like the hoa isnt so concerned about saftey or right, just what looks good(until you touched it:whistling2 but on the other hand, they did only charge $75.00 for a piss- poor repair!:no:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> as they should, you ****ed with something that was not yours.


I live in a condo in the complex. I pointed out the improper install and broken conduit by moving the box. They are claiming what I did necessitated repairs and sent me a bill.


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

B W E said:


> I live in a condo in the complex. I pointed out the improper install and broken conduit by moving the box. They are claiming what I did necessitated repairs and sent me a bill.


Break it again when they're not looking


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I can't even imagine buying into one of these communes. 

My house is mine, I will paint it any color I want.


Oh and as far as the OP, broken or not you should not have touched it.


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Two cliches that apply here are "Let sleeping dogs lie" and "Mess with bull, you get the horn". I suggest you file these for future reference.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

B W E said:


> I live in a condo in the complex. I pointed out the improper install and broken conduit by moving the box. They are claiming what I did necessitated repairs and sent me a bill.


did you forward a response similar to what Pete said here>?



> The truth is it was broke BEFORE he showed them. Just because they didn't have a trained eye doesn't change that fact.


~CS~


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

BBQ said:


> I can't even imagine buying into one of these communes.
> 
> My house is mine, I will paint it any color I want.


tell me about it: those places are the height of the bourgeoisie...how far removed from society can you get? :no:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

B W E said:


> I live in a condo in the complex. I pointed out the improper install and broken conduit by moving the box. They are claiming what I did necessitated repairs and sent me a bill.


It's a shame that you paid big $$ to buy a place with a HOA. It's also a shame that you "touched & broke" someone's property. 

Sorry but you can't complain about the Train noise if you bought a house next to the tracks. 

I live in a subdivision with a HOA and I don't have any problems. But I also read the declaration buy laws and adhere to them. I also enjoy screwing the old biddies when they complain about other people. 
For us you "Can Not" do maintenance on a vehicle unless its inside your garage and the door is closed. When they complained to me about having the door open while I changed my oil, I used them same rules to get them. 
I told them Vehicle maintenance includes washing your car. I told them to insure its in their garage with the door closed next time they wanted to wash their car.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

Whether or not it was done correctly, either before or after, their point is "you break it, you buy it." I see a lot of code violations, electrical and otherwise, in my neighborhood. That does not give me the right to start yanking on other people's property or communal property to "show" that it is done wrong! I suspect there may be a little bit more to this story that we might get from the HOA side! 
Just a thought.


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## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

Its your fault, your actions required someone to repair it to its previous condition. That said, i would let them take me to small claims court. What I would do isnt the point either though. What would Jesus do? I think going out there and fixing it properly after paying what you owe will give you the warm fuzzys.


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

To play devils advocate, if I was being charged for the repair I damn well want it repaired correctly. Not just put back the way it was before I (unjustly) broke it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

pudge565 said:


> To play devils advocate, if I was being charged for the repair I damn well want it repaired correctly. Not just put back the way it was before I (unjustly) broke it.


In reality, it's not his say how it is repaired. The only time he has a say is if he could get a majority vote of the members of the association to get behind him on fixing the box his way.

For the people saying not to pay and they will take him to small claims court, it doesn't work like that. They will simply start charging late fees until they finally decide to call the lawyer and put a lien on his unit. At some point he will go to refinance or sell the unit, or just want to be clear of the lien for credit reasons, and he will have to pay back the initial cost, all late fees, and the lawyer's fees as well.

Liens are a bit different when you are bound by a covenant than it is for contractors doing work on a customer's house.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Jesus? He was a good man.

The point is the inspector isn't worth crap. He virtually did a drive by inspection. You have to touch things to see if they work or not. I would not pay for the "repair" because it is not repaired. It was put back the way it was which was it looked good cosmetically. The real repair would have cost much more. That is what you have to convince them. Have another walk with them to the repaired box but with another contractor you trust to assist in their inspection. No way would I pay for that "fix".
Especially if the screw is still next to those wires.

Edit: reference the HOA not working that way above. Two can play that game. I know a fire marshal that would love to see those photos.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Well, meddling is still one of the leading causes of death. Fortunately, you survived this round. It was not your job to be pointing out violations on other people's property and had no business touching it in the first place. If you had a concern with your neighbor's property that you felt had to be addressed, perhaps you should have approached them directly instead of involving a third party like the HOA


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

LARMGUY said:


> Edit: reference the HOA not working that way above. Two can play that game. I know a fire marshal that would love to see those photos.


I've had threats like that, but they only bother the members of the HOA (the neighbors) who have to pay for any issues to be fixt, including yourself. You don't think the people running the HOA would care, do you?

I had one guy who was volunteer firefighter continually park in someone else's spot. Since we are a very easygoing condo association, we did all that we can not to fine him, but he kept pushing, so we were forced fine him. 

He got mad and reported us for some lame firecode violations that should have been grandfathered in, but he knew the fire inspector so he got him to cite us. 

In the end, the violations were fixed and since we just finished writing the budget for that year I decided that the money to fix the violations should come out of a special assessment. So for the next 3 months everyone in the association (including the guy who reported it) paid $25 extra on top of their association fees and when they asked why we told them because this guy got pissy and reported some lame firecode issues. From then on, he was brutally hated :laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

pudge565 said:


> To play devils advocate, if I was being charged for the repair I damn well want it repaired correctly. Not just put back the way it was before I (unjustly) broke it.


 The problem is, if he don't like the $75 bill to do a hack job, he really might not like the bill for a code-compliant repair.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Big John said:


> The problem is, if he don't like the $75 bill to do a hack job, he really might not like the bill for a code-compliant repair.


A code compliant repair of a hack job that was never code compliant wouldn't be my responsibility.

Here's the issue, simplified.

"Hey look, there's a broken window in a common area you guys have failed to fix for quite a while." And then "and if you look closer, that window was never installed properly". To which they reply "that window isn't broken." At which time I reach forward and tap a piece of the broken glass that is dangling from the frame. Then they say "oh, now you have to pay for that."

No. Sorry.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

B W E said:


> ...Here's the issue, simplified....


 I got it, and I completely agree with you.

Unfortunately, you're in the position now where you have to convince people who thought it worked fine, and who now have a financial interest in believing it was working fine, before you touched it.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

For $75.00 you got off cheap. Pay it and move on. Choose your battles.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> For $75.00 you got off cheap. Pay it and move on. Choose your battles.


I'm more of a principals vs. $$$ kind of guy. This HOA has been shafting the homeowners here for a long time. If you lived here you'd understand. They got off lucky....no ones child was electrocuted.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B W E said:


> I'm more of a principals vs. $$$ kind of guy. This HOA has been shafting the homeowners here for a long time. If you lived here you'd understand. They got off lucky....no ones child was electrocuted.


That's the problem, the HOA IS the homeowners. 

You may have a bad group in command as the board of directors, but unless you can prove corruption, you are pretty much stuck.

When you fight the HOA you are fighting yourself and your neighbors. The only way to win is to vote out the bad apples on the board.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Tell them what you do for a living, Fix the sumbich free of charge (with their blessing). If they contract you for more work, good, if not, that's good too.
And don't pay that $75 bill.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

B W E said:


> The problem is, they don't know who I am.


 
You don't do residential?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

B W E said:


> The HOA people here are Natzis...


 You should get on the board and end the insanity from the inside ...otherwise, there isn't much to complain about. :thumbsup:


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## howabout (Mar 25, 2012)

I had issues with my hoa. Then a working class man who ran a wreaker truck got on the board. All us construction guys are more timid these days.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I wouldn't buy a house that was part of an HOA. I understand the purpose of HOA's and in many instances they can really help. But ultimately they are born out of other people wanting to tell you how you can and can't live.

Condo associations are different because they exist out of necessity. When many people own a single building there needs to be some type of governing body and management system to take care of it, you can't just have 30 separate people screaming out their individual opinion.

I was voted onto the board of directors and then into the seat of president of my condo association simply because I cared about the building and took the initiative to do stuff. We are a very laid back association, what we want is for problems to never arise. We don't go out looking for problems, we only act when members of the association have valid grievances. 

I couldn't imagine being part of an association where the people in charge go around with a tape measure to see if the grass is an eight inch too high so they could fine the owner 

In the end, the best thing to do is to try and get on the board of directors. If you are having trouble with the board, fighting them is a problem. You may think you're sticking it to them, but you're not. You are sticking it to yourself and your neighbors.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Awg-Dawg said:


> You don't do residential?


95% of what I do is residential. I won't work for these people.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I just can't imagine paying a HOA to tell me what I can and can not do to my own house, anyone who belongs to one deserves their wrath.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

we don't have much of a choice here. if a development has 20 or more houses we must have an HOA.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

My neighborhood of stand alone single family homes has an HOA. First year we paid dues, petitioned the board to move our mailbox and paint the house a different color than it was. They gave me all sorts of trouble for changing the landscaping, cutting down trees, and parking a work truck. Second year we didn't pay dues. Nasty letters, threatening to take us to court, and finally they called police on us. Cop that showed up was a friend of a friend that I wired a hot tub for.  
We haven't paid in the 5 years since then. My house is painted, landscaped, no more trees, work truck in driveway, new lighting, etc. There have been multiple threatening letters sent to us citing one rule or another. I held on to them until one finally said we had 30 days to comply or we were subject to eviction from our home. (How the hell does an HOA evict me from my private property?) I had my lawyer serve the people on the board with a cease and desist order, and the same cop from years prior served them with charges of harassment, extortion, and something else I can't remember. 

We won, they paid my lawyer fees. Turns out they neglected to pay attention to the little line on our original paperwork that said the association was optional, voluntary, and not legally binding. The treasurer ended up in prison (unrelated to my issue) for embezzling over $100k from their general fund. Oops. 

F the associations. But unfortunately, you break it you buy it.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you broke it, you didn't offer to fix it, you owe for the repair. If the repair is inadequate, then you owe for the repair of the repair.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

drspec said:


> we don't have much of a choice here. if a development has 20 or more houses we must have an HOA.


What?

Is that a state law? 

That is nuts and anything but freedom.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

BBQ said:


> What?
> 
> Is that a state law?
> 
> That is nuts and anything but freedom.


 
it is a state law for any planned community of 20 or more homes or provisions of homes


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Most HOA's I have dealt with are run by asses, the real jerk-offs of the neighborhood. 

But go to a development with out an HOA and you quite often see some real crap, school busses on the front lawn being converted to campers project started in 1973, house where they do not mow the lawn, a shocking pink and yellow house.

So there is a trade off.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

drspec said:


> we don't have much of a choice here. if a development has 20 or more houses we must have an HOA.


the North Carolina Planned Community Act governs developments of 20 or more units, (or of less than 20 if the community agrees). It does not state that a development of 20 or more Must have an HOA. Could you please cite the North Carolina law of which you speak ?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

wildleg said:


> the North Carolina Planned Community Act governs developments of 20 or more units, (or of less than 20 if the community agrees). It does not state that a development of 20 or more Must have an HOA. Could you please cite the North Carolina law of which you speak ?


 
you have the right article.....Chapter 47F

but you are reading it wrong. any community of 20 or more created after January 1999 must comply. communites of less than 20 can create an HOA but it is optional.

Stupid law, but at this time we don't have a choice.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

drspec said:


> you have the right article.....Chapter 47F
> 
> but you are reading it wrong. any community of 20 or more created after January 1999 must comply. communites of less than 20 can create an HOA but it is optional.
> 
> Stupid law, but at this time we don't have a choice.


I believe you are mistaken, or I am not understanding you. The law applies to planned communities. If you scroll down and look at the definition of planned community, it specifies that a planned community is one which has communal property (ie a community that is layed out and planned out to be one with an HOA). It does not require developments of 20 or more residential units to be planned communities nor require them to have an HOA. if it did, there would be no allowance for termination of the HOA, as is allowed by this law (47-F-2-118).

I guess in this day and age not many developments are being built that don't have common areas and common facilities, which lead to condo associations, coops, and HOAs, but I believe that developers still have the right to develop property and sell/develop individual lots and homes without the state telling them that they can only build planned developments. Please correct me if I am wrong (cite law)


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

wildleg said:


> you broke it, you didn't offer to fix it, you owe for the repair. If the repair is inadequate, then you owe for the repair of the repair.


What exactly did I break?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

B W E said:


> What exactly did I break?



This...



B W E said:


> Give it a little tug.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Celtic said:


> This...


Forget it. This is turning into way too complicated a concept. Just out of curiosity, when I have it a little tug, what is it that you think broke? If I give a swing a little tug, have I just broken the swing? Or did I demonstrate that it can move (like the extension adapter, which shouldn't have been able to move).


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

B W E said:


> Forget it. This is turning into way too complicated a concept. Just out of curiosity, when I have it a little tug, what is it that you think broke? If I give a swing a little tug, have I just broken the swing? Or did I demonstrate that it can move (like the extension adapter, which shouldn't have been able to move).



Did you touch it?
Were you authorized to touch it?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B W E said:


> Forget it. This is turning into way too complicated a concept. Just out of curiosity, when I have it a little tug, what is it that you think broke? If I give a swing a little tug, have I just broken the swing? Or did I demonstrate that it can move (like the extension adapter, which shouldn't have been able to move).


The people who watched you touch it think that you broke it, that is all that matters. If you want to fight it, you're going to have to take it to court, in which you and your neighbors will be paying for.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

B W E said:


> Forget it. This is turning into way too complicated a concept. Just out of curiosity, when I have it a little tug, what is it that you think broke? If I give a swing a little tug, have I just broken the swing? Or did I demonstrate that it can move (like the extension adapter, which shouldn't have been able to move).


a swing is meant to be used, touched, and played on. Playground equipment owned by an HOA is a liability, and any HOA that doesn't have the equipment examined for damage regularly is in for a suprise lawsuit.

The conduit you put your hands on: you had no business putting your hands on it. If you thought it was damaged or installed improperly, you could have stated so, and suggested that it be examined. Instead, you put your hands on it and left it in a condition in which it needed to be repaired in a timely manner. Had you not put your hands on it, it may have been able to be repaired during a routine maintenance sweep, or continued to be used in a condition that might not be optimal but was still usable and relatively safe. 

The argument is 1) did you have reason to touch it and 2) were you negligent in touching it in the manner that you did. Apparently the consensus is that you were negligent in handling it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I have a feeling, and excuse me if I am wrong here B W E, but I think maybe you were a bit accusatory when you were walking around with the "Natzis" (as you wrote) and you wanted to show them how poorly they were doing their job. By what you said in your first post, you were out to give the evil HOA retribution because you didn't like the way they inspected every month.

If you were polite and matter-of-factly pointed out the issue and demonstrated that it was loose in a nice way, I doubt they would be sending you the bill.


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