# Spot the Violations



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Installed a range circuit & recep today. Opened the panel and found some goodies


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

*One More Pix*


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## SmithBuilt (Jan 9, 2009)

Ah, the new quick grounding method. Similar to a very loose push in.

I see you have a variety of breakers, might as well have a variety of wire colors to go along with in.



Just out of curiosity is that screw that is holding the main in a factory installation? Is it legal?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SmithBuilt said:


> Ah, the new quick grounding method. Similar to a very loose push in.
> 
> I see you have a variety of breakers, might as well have a variety of wire colors to go along with in.
> 
> ...


Of all the branch-circuit breakers in that panel, the only Bryant is the one I installed for the range.

Yes, the screw in the main is factory, and it's not only legal, but required.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Gotta love those hots that are colored *GREEN*! That's an accident waiting to happen to somebody working on wherever that wire goes.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

You did what you contracted to do. Did you suggest you would make things right?(for an extra)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> You did what you contracted to do. Did you suggest you would make things right?(for an extra)


 
Well, I did fix the hack grounds. I also fixed another violation (One that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I'm not gonna say what it is). As for the green wire used as a hot, and the other stuff, I commented on it, and got the old "We can't afford it right now since we're spending $10,000 on our kitchen."

At least they're aware of the problems and have my card. It may become more work sometime in the future.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

The locknut on top looks a little loose and it appears they took out too big of a knockout. Whats with the insulation extending so far into the panel. Lack of properly labeled breakers, and I'm going to ASSume that you took the door off the cover?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

crazyboy said:


> The locknut on top looks a little loose and it appears they took out too big of a knockout.


Yea, I tightened it up before I closed the panel back up. Not too big of a KO, just got sloppy when they pushed it out.



crazyboy said:


> Whats with the insulation extending so far into the panel.


No violation there.



crazyboy said:


> Lack of properly labeled breakers,


At least on the inside. On the front of the door was an 8½x11 printout of every breaker labeled.



crazyboy said:


> and I'm going to ASSume that you took the door off the cover?


Well, yea, kinda have to in order to work inside the panel.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

What else are you referring to Ken, the doubled up neutral lands? That concentrical knock out looks just fine from my house:whistling2:


That's one h*ell of an EGC land method, is that a new kind of conductive powder coat??? I knew I was lacking something, that's just grand


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

76nemo said:


> What else are you referring to Ken, the doubled up neutral lands? That concentrical knock out looks just fine from my house:whistling2:.....


Well, that's _one_ violation. There's still more.....


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

What is the brown colored rubber insulated conductor landed on the grounded bar????


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

76nemo said:


> What is the brown colored rubber insulated conductor landed on the grounded bar????


I think their bare, think its just the lighting that is making them look insulated. Hopefully 480 can clarify!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

crazyboy said:


> I think their bare, think its just the lighting that is making them look insulated. Hopefully 480 can clarify!


They're the #4 bare GECs.



gilbequick said:


> Gotta love those hots that are colored *GREEN*! That's an accident waiting to happen to somebody working on wherever that wire goes.


That's not green. It's a new color regocnized by the NEC for ungrounded conductors...... *Iwitt.*

Acronym for *I*t's *W*hat's *I*n *T*he *T*ruck.


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

Is this a sub-panel? Sorta looks like it with a back-fed main.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Kevin J said:


> Is this a sub-panel? Sorta looks like it with a back-fed main.


No. that's the 100a main panel. That's just the way Bryant used to do them. It's held in place properly.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I also fixed another violation (One that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I'm not gonna say what it is).


The receptacle on the left hand side of the panel is upside down. :whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> The receptacle on the left hand side of the panel is upside down. :whistling2:


This one?










I flipped it over before I wrapped up just for you. :laughing:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Oops, I made a mistake. Receptacle is actually on the right hand side. I have the Receptacle Flipper 1.07 plug in for Firefox that automatically shows pictures of receptacles the proper way and the way it shows on my screen is like above with a nice red hue. I always forget to right click and see picture as original.

Seriously, what about 110.16? Was this a resi?

I gotta go. Time to flood Craigslist with electrical ads for $20 an hour for electricle service with all my competitors phone numbers.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

Where did they get the third screw from the bottom
in the last picture? Looks like the manufacturer
screw fell out, and they improvised.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

I think rex got it.....the screw on the breaker.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

There are two grounded conductors under the same screw. Art 408.41


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

Working clearance, the guy with the camara is obviously too close:001_tongue:.

Maybe some 14 gauge wire on those 20 amp breakers??


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

What do you suggest when they need five 20 amp circuits for the new kitchen?
( plus a 15 amp for lighting?)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> What do you suggest when they need five 20 amp circuits for the new kitchen?
> ( plus a 15 amp for lighting?)


Kitchen's already wired, save for an electric stove (old one was gas). They're just getting new cabinets & c-tops.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Of all the branch-circuit breakers in that panel, the only Bryant is the one I installed for the range.


What brand are the red and blue breakers? I have only known them as Bryant.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricista said:


> What brand are the red and blue breakers? I have only known them as Bryant.


Cutler Hammer, Bryant, or Westinghouse.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Cutler Hammer, Bryant, or Westinghouse.


I have seen the cutler hammer replacements but I never saw them in red and blue-- same for westinghouse.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricista said:


> I have seen the cutler hammer replacements but I never saw them in red and blue-- same for westinghouse.


I looked close at my original photos (3870 x 2590), some are Bryant, some are C-H.


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

It looks like were still one violation short of a full house...

Is there a plastic bushing on that EMT with the feeder in it?


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> I gotta go. Time to flood Craigslist with electrical ads for $20 an hour for electricle service with all my competitors phone numbers.


now, that is cold.......:whistling2:

don't forget to put their license numbers in the ad as well... adds a nice
personal touch.... 

i've never gotten much directly from craigslist, but a lady who called me,
off the ad i had posted there, and never used me, did refer me to a pool
contractor, who led to a general contractor, who led to a commercial 
fountain contractor..... who all did pay me, thank you very much....


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

How about the concentric ko on the emt its still illegal even though they pulled a ground wire


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

cmec said:


> How about the concentric ko on the emt its still illegal even though they pulled a ground wire


 
Um, that's no ground wire.


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Um, that's no ground wire.


ok ,couldnt see the whole peice of wire may be it started as a ground and somone needed a phase and didnt have tape either


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## hobbs1944 (Jan 21, 2009)

Could it be the square D Breakers? If they are Homeline then if I remember right, they don't fit correctly in a Bryant panel. I don't use Homeline so this guess is from coming across them here and there.


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## htneighbors (Jan 23, 2009)

How far back in the wall is that panel located? And...how big is the panel cover? It appears there is a receptacle inside the wall - accessible through a hole next to the panel.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

*spot the violation*

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/088.jpg
I thought I would pull out a pic, to play spot the violations.....this one is tuff.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/088.jpg
> I thought I would pull out a pic, to play spot the violations.....this one is tuff.


Garden hose not rated for 120 volts.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

rexowner said:


> Where did they get the third screw from the bottom
> in the last picture? Looks like the manufacturer
> screw fell out, and they improvised.


Nope....

that's how some of those old breakers were made.


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## sherman (Sep 29, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/088.jpg
> I thought I would pull out a pic, to play spot the violations.....this one is tuff.


That was awesome.. Cheers big ears!!


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Old man was a shop teacher, he did awful,awful things to his house over his summer breaks, then he had a stroke and his house fell apart And everything stopped working at once on the poor wife. I got lot of pics, here's his panel he was steeling power for 25 years. ................................. I turned him in.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/089.jpg


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

cmec said:


> How about the concentric ko on the emt its still illegal even though they pulled a ground wire


I dont know about that one. Ive run EMT for 25 years and didnt know about that.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/088.jpg
> I thought I would pull out a pic, to play spot the violations.....this one is tuff.


I had one of those feeding my pool for 12 years:thumbsup:


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> Old man was a shop teacher, he did awful,awful things to his house over his summer breaks, then he had a stroke and his house fell apart And everything stopped working at once on the poor wife. I got lot of pics, here's his panel he was steeling power for 25 years. ................................. I turned him in.
> 
> http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/089.jpg


The setup _looks_ ok, how was he stealing power?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> Old man was a shop teacher, he did awful,awful things to his house over his summer breaks, then he had a stroke and his house fell apart And everything stopped working at once on the poor wife. I got lot of pics, here's his panel he was steeling power for 25 years. ................................. I turned him in.
> 
> http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/089.jpg


 
I see one set of cables going to the main. So how was he stealing power?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/081.jpg

Well here is his feeder to the panel that was behind the washing machine..... you see that wooden Post?.... one underground feeder went under the footing and came up here with a split bolt so he got half his power for free. Here is the connection, but it's hard to make out.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo148/BrooksElectric/085.jpg


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

I was saving this one for a rainy day but since it is -15 deg.........

View attachment 943



You never know......... didn't even do the  wire nut right.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Ooh that's genius? I wonder what some other ways are that electricians have seen power stolen?


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> Ooh that's genius? I wonder what some other ways are that electricians have seen power stolen?


The "connection" was between the meter and the main disconnect at the panel.....so it wasn't power stolen. just not protected.:no:

The wire went to a light and the customer said the it was the to tell him when the power came back on. Apparently when the power would go out he would turn off the main breaker. GONY and I was not in the mood to ask.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

John said:


> I was saving this one for a rainy day but since it is -15 deg.........
> 
> View attachment 943
> 
> ...


 
Now that's a classic. Did they use a red wire as a 'warning'?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Obviously, the red wire was used because it's attached to the B leg, which is usually red. This is called a 'transition conductor' because 2 wire NM doesn't come with red and white. lol. 

The blue wirenut was used to fool the unschooled into believing that this is the center of the wye of a 120/208 system. The idea here is to distract anyone from noticing the steel screw being a dissimilar metal to the aluminum conductor. Clever indeed!!

Also note that the wire is wrapped in the wrong direction around the screw. Quite likely yet another distraction. 

Yep, looks like they had all bases well covered!

Rob


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