# My boss has a question!



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Arikculwell said:


> Can you tap 3 200 amp panels from a 600 amp disconnect.
> 
> This will be a commercial job, retirement home. We plan on putting dinning area and a few offices on it. I'm just an apprentice, he is 64yr are old and yea...


Yes, if you are within the rules of 240.21


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Sure, some of these in a troffer>









:thumbup:
~CS~


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Sure, some of these in a troffer>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was thinking:







jk


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Arikculwell said:


> Can you tap 3 200 amp panels from a 600 amp disconnect.
> 
> This will be a commercial job, retirement home. We plan on putting dinning area and a few offices on it. I'm just an apprentice, he is 64yr are old and yea...


If you are looking to use a three hole lug on the load side of the disconnect, gutter tap or whatever. Remember that you have to carry a 600 amp bond to the 200 amp disconnect.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Arikculwell said:


> Can you tap 3 200 amp panels from a 600 amp disconnect.
> 
> This will be a commercial job, retirement home. We plan on putting dinning area and a few offices on it. I'm just an apprentice, he is 64yr are old and yea...


Hmmm...I could be wrong but this job sounds like it should have prints that the engineer spells out how it should be done (panel schedules, conductor sizes etc.)


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Bird dog said:


> Hmmm...I could be wrong but this job sounds like it should have prints that the engineer spells out how it should be done (panel schedules, conductor sizes etc.)


Yes, because us electricians can't figure that stuff out. It's sure to be bulletproof if an engineer stamps it.


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

Well technically we are residential, but our builder is doing a retirement home with 2 duplexes and 4 quad plexes, and a center area with offices, laundry dinning hall, kitchen ect.. will be asking a lot of unknowns.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Surely your 64 year old boss has built a service or two in his day?


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

Yes, he's been an in the field since 1st ears old. But nec says you have to kill a building in 6 throws. Main building builder wants 6 panels in a not so desirable location, long story short Locke ordered us a 600 amp disconnect, so ya... trying to make us of $1500


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> Yes, because us electricians can't figure that stuff out. It's sure to be bulletproof if an engineer stamps it.



Bullet proof defense in a court... Dig?


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

New phone my auto correct is terrible, 19years** make use**


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

chicken steve said:


> Sure, some of these in a troffer>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 What are those called?


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Polaris lugs. Ilsco and others make them as well


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

joebanana said:


> I was thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you get that split bolt, from Fred Flintstone?


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Yes, because us electricians can't figure that stuff out. It's sure to be bulletproof if an engineer stamps it.


Kind of like how we had to have a 3rd party do an arc flash study for all the panels we installed. 400 amp 3 phase 480 panel 1.2cal/cm2 and the 120/208 panel next to it 359 cal/cm2


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## V-Dough (Jul 22, 2014)

freeagnt54 said:


> Kind of like how we had to have a 3rd party do an arc flash study for all the panels we installed. 400 amp 3 phase 480 panel 1.2cal/cm2 and the 120/208 panel next to it 359 cal/cm2


359??? Typo?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Arikculwell said:


> Yes, he's been an in the field since 1st ears old. But nec says you have to kill a building in 6 throws. Main building builder wants 6 panels in a not so desirable location, long story short Locke ordered us a 600 amp disconnect, so ya... trying to make us of $1500


I think they have a drinking thread going on here. You might want to get in on that. You might win with this post.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

V-Dough said:


> 359??? Typo?


I hope not a typo if feed from the transformer especally anything over 75 kva.. Ya have to watch out the aic rating ..


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Bad Electrician said:


> Where did you get that split bolt, from Fred Flintstone?


What? You've never seen one of those before? Electrician's use them for tap splices. :thumbsup:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

joebanana said:


> What? You've never seen one of those before? Electrician's use them for tap splices. :thumbsup:


How many conductors are those split bolts rated for?


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

joebanana said:


> What? You've never seen one of those before? Electrician's use them for tap splices. :thumbsup:


Sure have, used them for years until insulated taps (Polaris, Clear taps.....) came on the market. So for most taps these days we use Polaris as split bolts are a PAIN in the tushie


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Ever try to get them things in a peckerhead?


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

hardworkingstiff said:


> How many conductors are those split bolts rated for?


IIRC 2 conductors or one feedthrough and a tap.

Manufacturer lists them for wire size and combinations like wire nuts


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> How many conductors are those split bolts rated for?


How many conductors do you usually tap?


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

We recently made a tap for an emergency repair of a 2500 amp Bus, 750-12 port double sided.

Try that with a split bolt with any semblance of organization, much less the labor and impossibility of getting a split bolt that can handle the conductors. Split bolts have a very limited application and often make good scrap and fun to throw at apprentices.:laughing:

http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/en...=611557&OP=pagination&currPageNum=4##false


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## SdCountySparky (Aug 6, 2014)

Install a 600amp sub panel with (3) 200amp breakers.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

joebanana said:


> How many conductors do you usually tap?


Do you usually answer a question with a question?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Miles of rubber tape. Not one, but 2 pairs of Channel Locks. A giant knobby gob of tape...

F a split bolt. This isn't 1951. I would rather use wirenuts in a motor (gasp!) than use a split bolt.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Do you usually answer a question with a question?


I often punctuate incorrectly?


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

InPhase277 said:


> Miles of rubber tape. Not one, but 2 pairs of Channel Locks. A giant knobby gob of tape...
> 
> F a split bolt. This isn't 1951. I would rather use wirenuts in a motor (gasp!) than use a split bolt.


I think we all would.

&&&&&

joebanana 
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ca
Posts: 430 
Rewards Points: 817 









Ever try to get them things in a peckerhead? 

If he meant the insulated lugs, I would do split bolts because of vibration. I might be wrong on this one.


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

frenchelectrican said:


> I hope not a typo if feed from the transformer especally anything over 75 kva.. Ya have to watch out the aic rating ..


I'll double check Friday but it is a 480 3 phase panel with a 400 amp main with a supposed 1.2 cal incedent energy. That panel feeds a transformer feeding the 120/208 panel with a 350+ cal incedent rating. I'm not an engineer but that doesn't make any sense to me.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> We recently made a tap for an emergency repair of a 2500 amp Bus, 750-12 port double sided.
> 
> Try that with a split bolt with any semblance of organization, much less the labor and impossibility of getting a split bolt that can handle the conductors. Split bolts have a very limited application and often make good scrap and fun to throw at apprentices.:laughing:
> 
> http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/en...=611557&OP=pagination&currPageNum=4##false


I pretty much only use them for bonding basket type cable tray these days.



InPhase277 said:


> Miles of rubber tape. Not one, but 2 pairs of Channel Locks. A giant knobby gob of tape...
> 
> F a split bolt. This isn't 1951. I would rather use wirenuts in a motor (gasp!) than use a split bolt.


Channel locks to hold the head and a properly sized socket wrench for the nut end is much easier IMO.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

B-Nabs said:


> I pretty much only use them for bonding basket type cable tray these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Channel locks to hold the head and a properly sized socket wrench for the nut end is much easier IMO.


I was thinking along the lines of the big 4/0 size that you'd need a 1.5" socket for. I personally don't own a socket that big, and if I bought one for a few split bolts today, I wouldn't be able to keep up with it for the next time.


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

New question what's the height for receptacle and switch for handicap?


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)




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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

Is that in ada complaince? And before finished floor. We are located in Oklahoma going by 2008 nec


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

And is that to the top of the box or bottom? I been searching online but so many skeptical situations


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

Ada says 15 from finished floor so at sub floor do yall think 20" from the top box for receptacles and 48" for switches for top of box?


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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

do multi dwelling family require outside receptacle like by the front do can some one reference code book section


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Arikculwell said:


> Yes, he's been an in the field since 1st ears old. *But nec says you have to kill a building in 6 throws.* Main building builder wants 6 panels in a not so desirable location, long story short Locke ordered us a 600 amp disconnect, so ya... trying to make us of $1500



That would depend on how many services feed the building. If you have just one 600 amp service being fed from the utility then yes you need a max of 6 throws to disconnect the service.

I suspect you will need a CT cabinet and then have 3- 200 amp panels fed from that cabinet-- no need for a 600 amp disconnect. 

Is this 3 phase or single phase?... You may need to check the AIC rating at the transformer before you buy the wrong materials


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Arikculwell said:


> what's the minimum electrical capacity of a 2 ton air conditioner


Sakes alive, you might have to start paying us in rewards points.

Do you mean min circuit ampacity? Can you see the nameplate?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Arikculwell said:


> what's the minimum electrical capacity of a 2 ton air conditioner


Please start new threads that do not pertain to this thread-- it makes searches harder and confuses my small brain.

I moved the post to here http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/2-ton-ac-capacity-146657/


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Just make sure to have your 3 panels grouped and at the point of entry if using them as service disconnects. Personally I would opt for a 600 amp main lug panel and install 3 200 amp breakers to feed 3 mlo sub panels. Then you get away from the grouping rule and can fully shutdown the sub panels preventing the need for arc flash suits if working in the panels.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

3xdad said:


> Sakes alive, you might have to start paying us in rewards points.




Or dollars and cents, brides are always good.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Mech Diver said:


> Or dollars and cents, brides are always good.


Brides are good.:laughing:

..but i know what ya meant.:thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

3xdad said:


> Brides are good.:laughing:
> 
> ..but i know what ya meant.:thumbsup:




You do but apparently 'auto correct' was going in a different direction....


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## Jay82304 (May 12, 2015)

Arikculwell said:


> do multi dwelling family require outside receptacle like by the front do can some one reference code book section


210.52(E) I believe you will find your answer


I know my answers are late but in case other people have the same questions I'll try and help


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## Jay82304 (May 12, 2015)

Arikculwell said:


> And is that to the top of the box or bottom? I been searching online but so many skeptical situations


Generally the 48" and 18" is to center. However you can put them wherever you want as long as they meet the other NEC requirements (spacing, etc)


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

I normally go 48" to top of switches and countertops.. 20" to top of anything low.


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