# Identifying unmarked motor leads



## don_resqcapt19

Try this


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## Frank Mc

Similar Solution....using leds and a battery

http://www.phased.com.au/showthread.php?t=943&highlight=ericks

HTH
Frank


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## John Valdes

Using the diagrams in the (your) engineering handbook, find your motor. (6 lead). Take a meter and set it to ohms or continuity. Connect your meter to one motor wire. Then find its other end. Mark this set 1 and 4. Take another wire not marked and find both ends. Mark this set 3 and 6. Now take the remaining two leads and mark them 5 and 2. Check all wires to ground and against the other sets for shorts.
That's it.


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## BBQ

John Valdes said:


> Using the diagrams in the (your) engineering handbook, find your motor. (6 lead). Take a meter and set it to ohms or continuity. Connect your meter to one motor wire. Then find its other end. Mark this set 1 and 4. Take another wire not marked and find both ends. Mark this set 3 and 6. Now take the remaining two leads and mark them 5 and 2. Check all wires to ground and against the other sets for shorts.
> That's it.


Except you will not know the polarity and smoke may result.


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## nolabama

BBQ said:


> Except you will not know the polarity and smoke may result.


I hate the smoke.


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## jmsmith

nolabama said:


> I hate the smoke.


As evidenced by the "running man" in your avatar? :lol:

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## nitro71

Post on the forum and hope the guy that rewinds motors gives you a hand!


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## John Valdes

BBQ said:


> Except you will not know the polarity and smoke may result.


Can you be a bit more specific? I told him how to mark the leads. Did you need to know how to connect it?


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## SteveO.

dronai said:


> How do you identify unmarked motor leads on a 6 lead motor ?


It makes a difference what type of six lead motor it is as the way of identifying them are different. Consequent pole, part winding, dual wound, wye-delta, etc. I'll tell you how to identify it if you tell me what type of motor it is. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ

John Valdes said:


> Can you be a bit more specific? I told him how to mark the leads. Did you need to know how to connect it?


Yeah, more specifically the ends of the windings are not interchangeable.











In the example above you cannot interchange 

1 with 4

or

2 with 5

or 

3 with 6

You need to know which end of the winding you have.


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## John Valdes

Maybe motorwinder can chime in as I am no motor winder. I can only rely on the coil drawings shown above. Lets hope he can clear this up. Or maybe you can since you have called me on it?


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## John Valdes

Dorian. Since we have differing views, (Bob has me rethinking my post) hopefully you will have some numbers left on the motor leads. That way if you find a #4, you know the other end is #1. Same for the rest. Motorwinder should be able to clear this up in short order.


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## Motorwinder

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Try this


This is the way to identify a star/delta. Good link.

SteveO is right. There are different types of 6 lead motors.

John, the markings sets up the polarity of the poles. It might not smoke right away, but it won't run.


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## dronai

Thanks all 

So far, all motors I've opened are Y, because of connections on cover.

The unmarked one is is more HP, and was probably rewound.


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## dronai

BBQ said:


> Yeah, more specifically the ends of the windings are not interchangeable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the example above you cannot interchange
> 
> 1 with 4
> 
> or
> 
> 2 with 5
> 
> or
> 
> 3 with 6
> 
> You need to know which end of the winding you have.


 

So far, all are dual volatage with the WYE connections as shown.


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## dronai

Back to the 10 hr grind !!!


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## Motorwinder

dronai said:


> Thanks all
> 
> So far, all motors I've opened are Y, because of connections on cover.
> 
> The unmarked one is is more HP, and was probably rewound.


Here's the procedure for 9 lead motors also.


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## micromind

SteveO. said:


> It makes a difference what type of six lead motor it is as the way of identifying them are different. Consequent pole, part winding, dual wound, wye-delta, etc. I'll tell you how to identify it if you tell me what type of motor it is. :thumbsup:


Part-winding is easy; the leads are usually marked 1,2,3,7,8,9. Dual-wound is usually 1,1,2,2,3,3. The others are 1,2,3,4,5,6.


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## SteveO.

micromind said:


> Part-winding is easy; the leads are usually marked 1,2,3,7,8,9. Dual-wound is usually 1,1,2,2,3,3. The others are 1,2,3,4,5,6.


I think the OP is working with motors without any identification do its the process, more than the labelling, from what I'm understanding. 

Also, a dual wound motor is usually labeled 1,2,3 and 11,12,13. :thumbsup:


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## micromind

SteveO. said:


> Also, a dual wound motor is usually labeled 1,2,3 and 11,12,13. :thumbsup:


Yes, I've seen them this way as well.


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## dronai

Going thru our stock room, all spare motors look like dual voltage Wye,and were using the high. Only found one oddball on the line, with no numbers. 

Much thanks to all the replys


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## John Valdes

dronai said:


> Going thru our stock room, all spare motors look like dual voltage Wye,and were using the high. Only found one oddball on the line, with no numbers.
> 
> Much thanks to all the replys


This indicates all the motors are IEC and are on metric frames. This used to be an issue, but true IEC motors are now readily available here in the US. 
If you get a chance look at the manufacture listed on the nameplate.


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## dronai

John Valdes said:


> This indicates all the motors are IEC and are on metric frames. This used to be an issue, but true IEC motors are now readily available here in the US.
> If you get a chance look at the manufacture listed on the nameplate.


All Baldor, VFDS- Siemans Micromaster


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## John Valdes

dronai said:


> All Baldor, VFDS- Siemans Micromaster


Baldor IEC frames? Motors? I know they build them, but I would have never guessed Baldor. Got a spec number? Baldor uses spec numbers for comprehensive identification. And serial numbers for date codes. Can you post all the nameplate information from a motor? I am curious to see if you are saddled with special OEM motors or are they standard frame?
And can you do the same for the gear boxs? Or, are these gear motors? Meaning they do not separate. Motor and gearbox as one?


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## dronai

John Valdes said:


> Baldor IEC frames? Motors? I know they build them, but I would have never guessed Baldor. Got a spec number? Baldor uses spec numbers for comprehensive identification. And serial numbers for date codes. Can you post all the nameplate information from a motor? I am curious to see if you are saddled with special OEM motors or are they standard frame?
> And can you do the same for the gear boxs? Or, are these gear motors? Meaning they do not separate. Motor and gearbox as one?


Off for a couple days. Siemens set up the entire system. The motors are still supplied by Siemans. One type is called a VFD motor by the Techs. They are gold. Supposed to be more efficient. 
The gear reducers are Warner. Separate attached unit.

Clutch brake motors, with DC control 90V

Also found that some of the VFD's have dynamic brakes that are attached to the VFD enclosures. 

Mechanical brake motors, control taped off line


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## dronai

John Valdes said:


> Baldor IEC frames? Motors? I know they build them, but I would have never guessed Baldor. Got a spec number? Baldor uses spec numbers for comprehensive identification. And serial numbers for date codes. Can you post all the nameplate information from a motor? I am curious to see if you are saddled with special OEM motors or are they standard frame?
> And can you do the same for the gear boxs? Or, are these gear motors? Meaning they do not separate. Motor and gearbox as one?


 
Ok John, Siemans has the contract to supply all motors, and controls. So the numbers might be different than their standard catalog numbers to keep the cost up !


Baldor- High effiency model 

EM3558T 2 hp 2.7/460V
1725rpm
frame- 145T
SF 1.15
enc ?? maybe enclosure type
Tefc/sn


This one is only installed on the VFD motors so far. Maybe the windings have better insulation for heat from ramping ?


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## micromind

dronai said:


> Ok John, Siemans has the contract to supply all motors, and controls. So the numbers might be different than their standard catalog numbers to keep the cost up !
> 
> 
> Baldor- High effiency model
> 
> EM3558T 2 hp 2.7/460V
> 1725rpm
> frame- 145T
> SF 1.15
> enc ?? maybe enclosure type
> Tefc/sn
> 
> 
> This one is only installed on the VFD motors so far. Maybe the windings have better insulation for heat from ramping ?


This is a basic 2HP 3ø TEFC 4 pole motor.

The E means it's the energy efficient model, painted gold from the factory. The M means it's 3ø. The four numbers are the model, and the T means a T-Frame. 

It's possible that it was relabeled though. It's also possible that my memory isn't all that good too!


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## megaohm

Good info...


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## TonyFields

*Identify unmarked 6 wire motor leads*

We assume this is a 6 leads out untagged. 
First we get the the continuity of each leads by using a multimeter.
Assuming we have done the continuity test, by then we can get three pairs with continuity. 
Having this three pairs we cannot really tell that our phase is right, so for us to run the motor in the exact phase, we will get the right phase.


First we marked the first pair as U1 & U2 as our reference, leaving the two pairs untagged. 

We then get one pair of the untagged and connect one end to U2.
Supply U1 & U2 with a voltage lower than the rated voltage of the motor.
- ex. if the rated voltage of the motor is 440V then we will supply it with 220V or lower. 

We now measure the voltage from U1 and the other end of the untagged pair not connected to U2. 
If the voltage is more than the supply voltage then the phase is right if, not reverse the connection then put marking V1 & V2. 
Do this procedure for the remaining untagged pair.

Assuming we already done our phasing we test run the motor with a lower voltage again to avoid burning the motor and measure if the currents in each phase are the
same.


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