# Hdmi



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Do I run Cat 5 to this? How many, one or two? Thanks.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would think that you would run a hdmi cord from there to its base. like this???


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I would think that you would run a hdmi cord from there to its base. like this???


I think the building code guys jackboot you for running HDMI in the walls. I'm pretty sure you can connect these with Cat 5 but I'm not sure. I'm running this for TV.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

99cents said:


> I think the building code guys jackboot you for running HDMI in the walls. I'm pretty sure you can connect these with Cat 5 but I'm not sure. I'm running this for TV.


you may be right but I have never done this so I don't know. I saw this plate on line and another that says to use hdmi cable. Someone will know


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

99cents said:


> I think the building code guys jackboot you for running HDMI in the walls. I'm pretty sure you can connect these with Cat 5 but I'm not sure. I'm running this for TV.


I'm not aware of any code that does not permit HDMI cable in a wall. It may be a Canadian code though:001_huh:

Pete


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I found this

An HDMI cable is usually composed of four shielded twisted pairs, with impedance of the order of 100 Ω, plus several separate conductors.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Pete m. said:


> I'm not aware of any code that does not permit HDMI cable in a wall. It may be a Canadian code though:001_huh:
> 
> Pete


I don't know, I'm just talking through my butt. Maybe there's a flame spread issue, maybe not. I'm just doing a little commercial job where I need to run HDMI from a floor box to a TV. I always have Cat 5 or 6 in the truck and going to the supplier for an HDMI cable is always a pain in the a$$.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

99cents said:


> I think the building code guys jackboot you for running HDMI in the walls. I'm pretty sure you can connect these with Cat 5 but I'm not sure. I'm running this for TV.


http://youtu.be/Da5SMuqQJ_8

This mike holt video I have found to be very helpful in regards to flexible cords and cord assemblies (which HDMI would fall into).


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

the only time I did this we were required by spec to run 2" emt for the cable (because of the connector).


running the cat5 might be a fail.

if the cable is class 2 I don't see why it wouldn't be ok concealed ?

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cables.htm


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Okay, so I found this. It looks like you can do it with a sender and a receiver. I thought I read somewhere, though, that you need two Cat 5's.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Mshow1323 said:


> http://youtu.be/Da5SMuqQJ_8
> 
> This mike holt video I have found to be very helpful in regards to flexible cords and cord assemblies (which HDMI would fall into).


Yes but hdmi is not performing the function of wiring equipment. Heck telephone wire is run thru the walls. I assume the hdmi is a class 2 cable and should be fine

I can't see how cat 5 or cat 6 would work


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

How long is the run?

I would go to Monoprice.com and get a simple CL2 rated HDMI cable for 40' or less. I know others who have run it 50' or more, but I never went that far.

If you need to go further, use some type of balun device that runs the data over CAT5 cable, such as the coverplates posted in post #10.


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

99cents said:


> I don't know, I'm just talking through my butt. Maybe there's a flame spread issue, maybe not. I'm just doing a little commercial job where I need to run HDMI from a floor box to a TV. I always have Cat 5 or 6 in the truck and going to the supplier for an HDMI cable is always a pain in the a$$.


I'm seeing 19 conductors but maybe all of them are not used? It seems like it would be more of a PITA wiring cat5 up then getting the correct cable.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I have checked a few sites and the hdmi appears to be CL 2 so it should not be an issue


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I have checked a few sites and the hdmi appears to be CL 2 so it should not be an issue


Not all of it, just make sure what you buy has the rating.


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## Wpgshocker (Jan 25, 2013)

Pete m. said:


> I'm not aware of any code that does not permit HDMI cable in a wall. It may be a Canadian code though:001_huh: Pete


You cannot run any cable in the walls of a combustible building unless they are rated for it. 

There are code rules and tables that explain this.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

They do make hdmi cable rated to go inside a wall. I believe it's a building code requirements. At least that's what they require here.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Hack Work said:


> How long is the run?
> 
> I would go to Monoprice.com and get a simple CL2 rated HDMI cable for 40' or less. I know others who have run it 50' or more, but I never went that far.
> 
> If you need to go further, use some type of balun device that runs the data over CAT5 cable, such as the coverplates posted in post #10.


Do I only run one Cat 5, Hack? Maybe I'll run two just in case. It's only twenty feet.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

99cents said:


> Do I only run one Cat 5, Hack? Maybe I'll run two just in case. It's only twenty feet.


If it's only 20', just get an HDMI cable. Plug it into cover plates like Dennis posted in post #2... or just have the end of the HDMI cable come out of the wall thru a "scoop" type cover plate.


If you are set on using one of these devices that uses a balun so that you could go further distances over Cat5, then I would just find the installation instructions which will tell you if you need 1 or 2 Cat5 cables (I've seen both).


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Spend 20 minutes to watch the video


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Hack Work said:


> If it's only 20', just get an HDMI cable. Plug it into cover plates like Dennis posted in post #2... or just have the end of the HDMI cable come out of the wall thru a "scoop" type cover plate.
> 
> 
> If you are set on using one of these devices that uses a balun so that you could go further distances over Cat5, then I would just find the installation instructions which will tell you if you need 1 or 2 Cat5 cables (I've seen both).


WTF?? Are those things really worth two hundred bucks or did I go to bendoverandtakeitlikeaman. com?


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

99cents said:


> WTF?? Are those things really worth two hundred bucks or did I go to bendoverandtakeitlikeaman. com?


They are only worth it when you need to go a far distance.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Hack Work said:


> They are only worth it when you need to go a far distance.


Gotcha


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

99cents said:


> Okay, so I found this. It looks like you can do it with a sender and a receiver. I thought I read somewhere, though, that you need two Cat 5's.


Yes 2 cat5s. 
I have this setup in my house for remote reciever.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Mshow1323 said:


> http://youtu.be/Da5SMuqQJ_8
> 
> This mike holt video I have found to be very helpful in regards to flexible cords and cord assemblies (which HDMI would fall into).


Maybe I missed something. I do not see where HDMI cable is listed in table 400.4

Pete


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

typically you need 2 cat5e cables to extend HDMI. typically, one would try to NOT run an HDMI cable longer than 35' but there have been many times I have heard a 50+' cable worked fine, or with a few sparkles @ 1080P


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

Just get an HDMI cable, run it down the wall, and be done with it, for 20ft.
If it was a long distance then you would want HDMI extenders over Cat5e or Cat 6.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

You guys are so smart  . Thanks for helping me figure this out.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Pete m. said:


> Maybe I missed something. I do not see where HDMI cable is listed in table 400.4
> 
> Pete


They are not, and that's the point. 




Scope of UL 62:
"1.1 These requirements cover fixture wires, hoistway cables, and flexible cords for use in accordance with
the National Electrical Code.
1.2 An elevator cable that contains one or more optical-fiber members is limited (see 8.6) to carrying
optical energy that has been ruled not hazardous to the human body.
1.3 These requirements do not cover armored cords or assemblies of flexible cords or fixture wires with
fittings or wiring devices of any sort (such as cord sets, power-supply cords, and Christmas-tree and
decorative-lighting outfits, which are covered in requirements separate from this standard) nor do these
requirements cover any type of wire or cord for use at a potential higher than 600 V."
The "cords" found on a tv, router, projector, or similiar equipment is not a flexible cord, per this scope.

Scope of UL 817:
"1.1 These requirements cover power-supply cords for use as supply connections for appliances in
accordance with the National Electrical Code.
1.2 These requirements also cover cord sets for use in extending a branch circuit supply to the
power-supply cord of a portable appliance by means of flexible cord in accordance with the National
Electrical Code."


Because these cords are, in fact, power supply cords (cord sets), They are UL 817 which is not covered by Article 400. Art. 400 covers UL 62, read Annex A. 

I would consider HDMI, monitor cords, or projector cords, all to be cord sets. 

http://www.amazon.com/Aurum-Ultra-Ethernet-Certified-Supports/dp/B00D2ZFME4/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389385043&sr=1-3&keywords=hdmi+cl2+cable

Take this for example. It is both a Cord Set and CL2 rated cable, either of which permits it to be run in a wall or through a ceiling. Based on my understanding of the video, it is a UL 817 listed item. 

Run it through the wall


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Mshow1323 said:


> http://youtu.be/Da5SMuqQJ_8
> 
> This mike holt video I have found to be very helpful in regards to *flexible cords and cord assemblies (which HDMI would fall into)*.





Mshow1323 said:


> *They are not, and that's the point.*


So you are of the opinion that HDMI is permitted in concealed spaces within a structure?

Pete


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

FWIW, heres a company that sells a lot of equipment for what youre doing.

They also have support available for what they sell.

http://www.cablestogo.com/category/hdmi?gclid=CNzsrujI9LsCFfBcMgodng8ARA


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Yes, that is my interpretation. However, I cannot find what UL listing number HDMI cables fall under. So until then, I still refer to my CL2 HDMI cable when I'm questioned by the AHJ.

In the end, I may be wrong but I certainly agree with Holt on the Cord Set vs Flexible cable argument.


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## halfamp (Jul 16, 2012)

if it's under 50' get a cable and get a female to male adapter from the cable on the wall plate

if its long distances (like in a big conference room), look up extron electronics for running hdmi, vga, rca, s-video and other audio/video hookups over cat 6


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

Let's just make sure you're all on the same page. The first and second device posted are pass through units. You connect a premade HDMI cable to the back of it. You do not use data cable. 

Next are the HDMI baluns those run over CatX cable they're designed to convert the connection between the two points with electronics to catX and back to HDMI. Under no circumstances should you spice HDMI cable to each other or from HDMI to catx by mechanical means (cutting the wire and twisting the cables together). 

They do make a kit where you can buy the cable and they make tools to make the ends. But do it right and proper or don't do it.


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

You can do it with one cat 5 cable, but the baluns are far more expensive than the ones that use two.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't think that I have ever installed an HDMI in a wall or attic, it's just too hack for me to live with. for at least the last 15 years, all my display cabling has been installd in this.











On finish I install the cable, sized appropriately to reach from the source to the display through these.










Legacy customers with composite cabling are thrilled that I can install HDMIs for them.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

I do it like 556 posted. The trickiest part is getting boxes which accept the 1.5" smurf. 

Actually that picture looks like 1". If you need to get it through 3/4 you can use microhdmi or rapidrun.

Depending on the distance and building requirements CL2, CL2R, CL2P, CL3, CL3R, or CL3P HDMI may be a cheaper option than an adapter balun. (R)iser is for multifloor. (P)lenum is for return airspaces.

Wall plates and couplers do not have a speed/bandwidth rating, so you don't have to match the type of HDMI signal cable with the wallplate.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

I can fit (3) HDMIs in a 1", the nice thing about 1" is that 1-3/8" holes are just under 40% of 3-1/2 inches.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

That's pretty slick. I've standardized on 1 3/8 for pex since the 3/4 and 1/2 isolators are 1 3/8 OD.

Where do you get your 1" spools from?


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

ADI for 100' spools, beach wire and cable for 250's and 500's.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Cool, thanks. For some reason my ADI's only seem to stock 1.5 and 2...

...maybe the guy before me keeps buying up all the 1".


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

markore said:


> Cool, thanks. For some reason my ADI's only seem to stock 1.5 and 2...
> 
> ...maybe the guy before me keeps buying up all the 1".


Just ask them to allocate some for you, online I see 2,200 feet at the Atlanta hub.


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## Wired4Life10 (Jul 9, 2011)

Personally, I try to always use baluns if it's a situation that could be difficult to upgrade. Even with conduit or smurf, it can still be difficult so baluns allow easy upgrade to future revisions of HDMI or other connection types.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Pete m. said:


> So you are of the opinion that HDMI is permitted in concealed spaces within a structure?
> 
> Pete


Is hdmi listed anywhere in the NEC. I am not sure it is an issue if it is class 2


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

five.five-six said:


>


Around here the AV guys always run a piece of that conduit between the points so that if they needed another cable they can get it.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Yeah I must have been in a rush when I was posting. It's seems we are all in an agreement that HDMI which is CL2 is permit table in walls. I somehow read that you guys were against it. 

Reading is a skill. Self fail :whistling2::surrender::bangin:

And these balun things are totally new to me. They look like a perfect solution to long distance remote connections.

Thanks


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Here's what I have going to my projector. 35' 22 bucks

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005LJQM3Y/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I buy lengths long enough to go from source to display. No more connections than necessary.


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## Djnigel (Dec 10, 2011)

cat5 will work.. what you need is call a hdmi balun it transmits hdmi over cat5 it is supported yp to 1080 and 3d.. we use them in every new house we wire due to hdmi cables can not run over 125' and also hdmi can be ran behind sheetrock just make sure the hdmi cable is rated for in wall use it will say on the cable or package.


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