# 277 VAC question



## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

I've found that I have a 277v lighting circuit in a bathroom at my facility. My CEO has her heart set on a certain light fixture from Lowes.

The fixture would normally be used in a 110V application, but can I wire it to 277V and use 277v light bulbs?

Thanks, hud


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I got a nickel that says the fixture won't be rated for 277v.


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I got a nickel that says the fixture won't be rated for 277v.


That's the problem. I can't find a rating on the fixture or packaging.

I thought everyting was pretty much rated for 600 volts.

Thanks


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

hudlow said:


> That's the problem. I can't find a rating on the fixture or packaging.
> 
> I thought everyting was pretty much rated for 600 volts.
> 
> Thanks


Uh, oh. Better get an electrician.


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Uh, oh. Better get an electrician.


I've been twistin' wires together for 30 years. All the 277v work I've ever done was industrial. I'm in a small commercial set up here and have never run across this type of problem before.

Do you have any other suggestions?

hud


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

Every 277 volt light fixture I've seen has a ballast. Most ballasts are multi tap and you use the tab that is marked 277 volts. I have never seen a 277 volt fixture that you can interchange 120 or 277 lamps. I think you are over your head working on commercial electrical.
Old Spark


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

Old Spark said:


> Every 277 volt light fixture I've seen has a ballast. Most ballasts are multi tap and you use the tab that is marked 277 volts. I have never seen a 277 volt fixture that you can interchange 120 or 277 lamps. I think you are over your head working on commercial electrical.
> Old Spark


I'm talking about an incandescent fixture!

That's why I said *BULBS* in my first post instead of tubes.

They make 277 volt light bulbs!

Thanks


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

hudlow said:


> I'm talking about an incandescent fixture!
> 
> That's why I said *BULBS* in my first post instead of tubes.
> 
> ...


 

Don't do that, the fixture's not rated for it. Use a small ice cube relay inside a junction box, and run the light. It's done all the time in industrial buildings that have 277 volt lighting, but they install a 120 volt fart fan.


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

hudlow said:


> I'm talking about an incandescent fixture!
> 
> That's why I said *BULBS* in my first post instead of tubes.
> 
> ...


Correct, they do.
http://www.buylightfixtures.com/277-volt-light-bulbs.aspx

However, you cannot use them in a home, as this link suggests.

I assume that you were not and was aware of this.

210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations. The nominal
voltage of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted
by 210.6(A) through (E).
(A) Occupancy Limitation. In dwelling units and guest
rooms or guest suites of hotels, motels, and similar occupancies,
the voltage shall not exceed 120 volts, nominal,
between conductors that supply the terminals of the
following:
(1) Luminaires
(2) Cord-and-plug-connected loads 1440 volt-amperes,
nominal, or less or less than 1⁄4 hp


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wingz said:


> Correct, they do.
> http://www.buylightfixtures.com/277-volt-light-bulbs.aspx
> 
> However, you cannot use them in a home, as this link suggests.
> ...



C'mon, wingz, how many homes are gonna have 277 in them? :blink: OP says 'bathroom at my facility", which I mean to take a commercial setting.


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

wingz said:


> Correct, they do.
> http://www.buylightfixtures.com/277-volt-light-bulbs.aspx
> 
> However, you cannot use them in a home, as this link suggests.
> ...


Thank-you, I do maintenance in a 50 bed residential health care facility. We have a 480 Volt primary service. Most of our flourescent lighting is 277 VAC.

I just got stuck with one very odd-ball situation in the Executive restroom. I was not here when the building was constructed and was not aware that this situation existed until we started the remodel of the restroom.

The choices for 277 VAC wall mount fixtures are very limited for restroom applications. I'm just trying to make the boss happy and explore all possibilities.

Right now I'm going back to temporarily hang the 4' two tube flourescent fixture that I'm trying to replace to get by over the weekend.

hud.


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

480sparky said:


> C'mon, wingz, how many homes are gonna have 277 in them? :blink: OP says 'bathroom at my facility", which I mean to take a commercial setting.


My comment was directed at the link, which stated that these were available for home use. I was pointing out their mistake.


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Don't do that, the fixture's not rated for it. Use a small ice cube relay inside a junction box, and run the light. It's done all the time in industrial buildings that have 277 volt lighting, but they install a 120 volt fart fan.


Thank-you for that advice.

hud


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

hudlow said:


> ............
> The choices for 277 VAC wall mount fixtures are very limited for restroom applications. I'm just trying to make the boss happy and explore all possibilities.
> 
> Right now I'm going back to temporarily hang the 4' two tube flourescent fixture that I'm trying to replace to get by over the weekend.
> ...


Like mcclarey said, get a small ice-cube relay with a 277v coil, and use it to control a 120v circuit that feeds the light.


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

hudlow said:


> Thank-you, I do maintenance in a 50 bed residential health care facility. We have a 480 Volt primary service. Most of our flourescent lighting is 277 VAC.
> 
> I just got stuck with one very odd-ball situation in the Executive restroom. I was not here when the building was constructed and was not aware that this situation existed until we started the remodel of the restroom.
> 
> ...


Does your individual units satisfy this definition?

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent
living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and
sanitation.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wingz said:


> Does your individual units satisfy this definition?
> 
> Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent
> living facilities for one or more persons, including
> ...



I doubt it will. Usually, there's no cooking in the units. Otherwise, a 50-bed unit would not have passed plan revue with 277v lighting.


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I doubt it will. Usually, there's no cooking in the units. Otherwise, a 50-bed unit would not have passed plan revue with 277v lighting.


I agree, the OP said "resi", not me.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

Old Spark said:


> Every 277 volt light fixture I've seen has a ballast. Most ballasts are multi tap and you use the tab that is marked 277 volts. I have never seen a 277 volt fixture that you can interchange 120 or 277 lamps. I think you are over your head working on commercial electrical.
> Old Spark


Just a slight correction. Most of the new, electronic fluorescents I've used now have uni-ballasts in them. You just hook it up. It detects which voltage it is on its own!:thumbsup:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

If you have a 50 bed HCF, I would imagine you would have a facility manager. Ask your facility manager to contact his electrician and he an easily get a 120 volt lighting circuit to the bathroom and then your CEO could have her made in China fixture. 

Also be aware, your AHJ may not allow incandescent lamps in restrooms. You may need to follow certain energy guidlines and install high efficiency lighting.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wingz said:


> I agree, the OP said "resi", not me.



OP never said 'resi'. You brought up the dwelling issue.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> If you have a 50 bed HCF, I would imagine you would have a facility manager. Ask your facility manager to contact his electrician and he an easily get a 120 volt lighting circuit to the bathroom and then your CEO could have her made in China fixture.


HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA nursing home having an electrician, those managers and a nickle are hard hard to seperate, I doubt they'll have a contractor within 50 miles that does not have a bad taste in their mouth from this place:laughing::laughing::laughing:



> Also be aware, your AHJ may not allow incandescent lamps in restrooms. You may need to follow certain energy guidlines and install high efficiency lighting.


This is the State of NC not the commie country known as CA:whistling2:


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

480sparky said:


> OP never said 'resi'. You brought up the dwelling issue.


From OP:

"Thank-you, I do maintenance in a 50 bed *residential* health care facility."

Okay, what is this?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

brian john said:


> ...... those managers and a nickle hard hard to seperate, ............


True dat.

I heard the reason there's only 3 legs on the buffalo on the old buffalo nickles is because people like that here holding on to them so hard, the one leg got pulled off. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wingz said:


> From OP:
> 
> "Thank-you, I do maintenance in a 50 bed *residential* health care facility."
> 
> Okay, what is this?



It's from post #11. You brought up dwellings in post 9.:whistling2:


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## wingz (Mar 21, 2009)

480sparky said:


> It's from post #11. You brought up dwellings in post 9.:whistling2:


Touche, mon ami. I concede. 'Twas fun.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

hudlow said:


> I've found that I have a 277v lighting circuit in a bathroom at my facility. My CEO has her heart set on a certain light fixture from Lowes.
> 
> The fixture would normally be used in a 110V application, but can I wire it to 277V and use 277v light bulbs?
> 
> Thanks, hud


If you want to be a hero, put the two 120 volt lamps in series. :thumbsup:

I never said that........:whistling2:







.

I just did a fountain job the had 160 of them wired that way. It seems as though they do it all of the time.










.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

The other option is go to a supply house and see what they can get for a small 500VA 277/120 transformer, or else a 480/208 transformer (the ratio is the same) and feed the light from that. But that'd probably run a couple hundred bucks, and you'd have to fuse it, so if you have 120 nearby, I'd go with the relay idea.


jrannis said:


> If you want to be a hero, put the two 120 volt lamps in series...I just did a fountain job the had 160 of them wired that way. It seems as though they do it all of the time.


 Zuh? :blink: That's... legal? Off the top of my head, I don't know why it wouldn't be but... But I'll also bet they at least used 130V lamps in the fountain. Running a normal A19 on ±138V is gonna burn it out pretty quick.

-John


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> The other option is go to a supply house and see what they can get for a small 500VA 277/120 transformer, or else a 480/208 transformer (the ratio is the same) and feed the light from that. But that'd probably run a couple hundred bucks, and you'd have to fuse it, so if you have 120 nearby, I'd go with the relay idea. Zuh? :blink: That's... legal? Off the top of my head, I don't know why it wouldn't be but... But I'll also bet they at least used 130V lamps in the fountain. Running a normal A19 on ±138V is gonna burn it out pretty quick.
> 
> -John


Yeah it will, I have been having issues with 120 volt A19s burning out on 125 volt lately.


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

How far is the 120/208 volt panel from the rest room? They have one some where because you have duplex outlets all over the place. If it's not too far, run a new circuit to the rest room for the light she wants and install a new switch or have an electrician remove the 277 volt wiring at the last j box before the light and use the conduit and switch. Of course you are supposed to get a permit and have it inspected.
Old Spark


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Like mcclarey said, get a small ice-cube relay with a 277v coil, and use it to control a 120v circuit that feeds the light.


 Good luck getting a 277V coil by the weekend....

Mike


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

brian john said:


> HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA nursing home having an electrician, those managers and a nickle are hard hard to seperate, I doubt they'll have a contractor within 50 miles that does not have a bad taste in their mouth from this place:laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the State of NC not the commie country known as CA:whistling2:


 
Never said it was a nursing home. 

I've never seen a bunch of people who seem to think they know so much but make such hasty assumptions.

I work at a 50 bed residential _substance abuse rehab_. We are one of the most highly regarded facilities of its type in the country and we make money faster than you can count it.

We have contractors calling on us regularly to see if we need their services because they work in a nice, clean, comfortable environment and they know the money will be paid when the job is completed.

You know what they say about ASSuming....

Thanks


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Re-route the conduit and pull new wire


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> Re-route the conduit and pull new wire


 
Thanks for the advice but I believe I can snake some MC cable down to a receptacle and pick up some 110v to break through a relay like *mcclary's electrical* said.

hud


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

So if contractors are banging down the doors to work there why are you coming here for answers? Your 30 years experience should be able to get you through this but I doubt you're really an electrician. Ha ha.


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> So if contractors are banging down the doors to work there why are you coming here for answers? Your 30 years experience should be able to get you through this but I doubt you're really an electrician. Ha ha.


I doubt it too. 

I'm also wondering why this thread hasn't been locked yet along with the cookie cutter DYI chatroom response.


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## hudlow (Sep 3, 2010)

This is the first time I've ever gone online to ask a little electrical advice.

How was I to know that all the smart assed know-it-all electricians I ever worked with would wind up on on the same forum?

I've got people on here telling me I'm not an electrician although they can't provide a shred of evidence that they themselves are.

The trade went to hell when they started hiring crack heads.

For those of you who sincerely tried to help me out I say thanks.

The rest of you can kiss my ass.:thumbsup:

hud


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

My license nombre is 09LEL-00217 City of New Orleans Department of Safety & Permits. Put the coil in like McClary said, or wire them in series, your choice. And yes all the smart alecky 'lectricians ganged up and ended up here. Enjoy.:thumbsup:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

nolabama said:


> My license nombre is 09LEL-00217 City of New Orleans Department of Safety & Permits. Put the coil in like McClary said, or wire them in series, your choice. And yes all the smart alecky 'lectricians ganged up and ended up here. Enjoy.:thumbsup:


You got your class "a"....or is that the journeyman card?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Mike in Canada said:


> Good luck getting a 277V coil by the weekend....
> 
> Mike


 

I get my grainger and MSC orders the next day..........


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## mightyjoe (Sep 20, 2010)

hudlow said:


> I've found that I have a 277v lighting circuit in a bathroom at my facility. My CEO has her heart set on a certain light fixture from Lowes.
> 
> The fixture would normally be used in a 110V application, but can I wire it to 277V and use 277v light bulbs?
> 
> Thanks, hud


Something I would consider is listing and label


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## Elec-Tech (Oct 10, 2009)

I feel bad for the next guy to come along and put 120v lamps in your 277 volt light fixture. Pop pop pop.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Elec-Tech said:


> I feel bad for the next guy to come along and put 120v lamps in your 277 volt light fixture. Pop pop pop.


 

why feel bad? If he does that, he deserves it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

:laughing:


Elec-Tech said:


> I feel bad for the next guy to come along and put 120v lamps in your 277 volt light fixture. Pop pop pop.


Hope he shuts the switch off before changing bulbs:laughing::laughing:


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