# Lights intermittently flicker in whole house.



## jman2012a

Our lights intermittently flicker in whole house and have been doing so for about 3 weeks. Since it is intermittent, it took us a while to figure out what was going on and that it was not related to any appliance or the furnace. Week 2 we called the utility company and after 2 calls they came out an inspected the outside lines. Of course they sent the guy out in the evening. Anyway, he noted the neutral was secure at the line into the meter box and he said he tightened the connections at the pole. He said to check with the neighbors to see if they have the same problem. Checked with the neighbor who shares the same drop from the transformer and they do not have any flickering. During week 3 (today) had an electrician come out to look at our boxes and the meter box. He came out around noon on a bright day. He tightened a somewhat loose neutral and the main panel and then tightened another item in a sub panel. He also made sure that all other connections were secure. He also checked to see that the connections in the meter box were secure. None of the panels nor the meter box exhibited any signs of corrosion or arcing. I was present when he was doing the work. When dusk hit, I noticed that the lights across all circuits continue to intermittently flicker. The flickering pattern seems to be random in timing and length. One point of reference. The sub-panel controls all of the lights in the house across multiple circuits. The main panel came to play when a previous home owner in the 80s had an attached garage added, which was between the pole and the prior main panel (now the sub panel).

Looking for any advice on the next course of action to take relative to an electrician and/or poco.


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## Cletis

jman2012a said:


> Our lights intermittently flicker in whole house and have been doing so for about 3 weeks. Since it is intermittent, it took us a while to figure out what was going on and that it was not related to any appliance or the furnace. Week 2 we called the utility company and after 2 calls they came out an inspected the outside lines. Of course they sent the guy out in the evening. Anyway, he noted the neutral was secure at the line into the meter box and he said he tightened the connections at the pole. He said to check with the neighbors to see if they have the same problem. Checked with the neighbor who shares the same drop from the transformer and they do not have any flickering. During week 3 (today) had an electrician come out to look at our boxes and the meter box. He came out around noon on a bright day. He tightened a somewhat loose neutral and the main panel and then tightened another item in a sub panel. He also made sure that all other connections were secure. He also checked to see that the connections in the meter box were secure. None of the panels nor the meter box exhibited any signs of corrosion or arcing. I was present when he was doing the work. When dusk hit, I noticed that the lights across all circuits continue to intermittently flicker. The flickering pattern seems to be random in timing and length. One point of reference. The sub-panel controls all of the lights in the house across multiple circuits. The main panel came to play when a previous home owner in the 80s had an attached garage added, which was between the pole and the prior main panel (now the sub panel).
> 
> Looking for any advice on the next course of action to take relative to an electrician and/or poco.


what city you in ?


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## jman2012a

Cleveland, OH


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## Cletis

jman2012a said:


> Cleveland, OH


Uhhhggg. Good luck. That's a big Union town. It will take a union guy 8 hrs to figure that one out. Around here about 1-2 hrs to figure and fix. It's an easy fix


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## bennysecond

could be few things:

1. Voltage fluctuations -> monitoring needed,
2. Fixture with broken input filter,
3. Overheated connections, hard to find with low humidity,
4. Arcing, could be located when it is happening using old school method with portable FM radio between frequencies.

...and some more.

good luck


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## bobelectric

jman2012a said:


> Our lights intermittently flicker in whole house and have been doing so for about 3 weeks. Since it is intermittent, it took us a while to figure out what was going on and that it was not related to any appliance or the furnace. Week 2 we called the utility company and after 2 calls they came out an inspected the outside lines. Of course they sent the guy out in the evening. Anyway, he noted the neutral was secure at the line into the meter box and he said he tightened the connections at the pole. He said to check with the neighbors to see if they have the same problem. Checked with the neighbor who shares the same drop from the transformer and they do not have any flickering. During week 3 (today) had an electrician come out to look at our boxes and the meter box. He came out around noon on a bright day. He tightened a somewhat loose neutral and the main panel and then tightened another item in a sub panel. He also made sure that all other connections were secure. He also checked to see that the connections in the meter box were secure. None of the panels nor the meter box exhibited any signs of corrosion or arcing. I was present when he was doing the work. When dusk hit, I noticed that the lights across all circuits continue to intermittently flicker. The flickering pattern seems to be random in timing and length. One point of reference. The sub-panel controls all of the lights in the house across multiple circuits. The main panel came to play when a previous home owner in the 80s had an attached garage added, which was between the pole and the prior main panel (now the sub panel).
> 
> Looking for any advice on the next course of action to take relative to an electrician and/or poco.


 Geez, Buddy. Don't yell at us.


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## erics37

F**ked up meter connection or sumpin'

Utility guys like to glance at their connectors and call them good - nevermind they've got 5 bugs in a row connecting a single piece of wire together flapping around in the wind. I wouldn't rule that out.

It's not rocket surgery. It's not necessarily a neutral connection. Could be a loose connection at any point on the service or lighting feeder. If various circuits are all intermittently flickering then it narrows it down a point in a main feed somewhere.


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## Switched

Unplug the X-mas lights already!:laughing:

There are quite a few things it could be and a Good Electrician will figure it out. Hire one.

The house will most likely burn down tonight though, so don't worry!:thumbup::thumbup:


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## 360max

Cletis said:


> Uhhhggg. Good luck. That's a big Union town. It will take a union guy 8 hrs to figure that one out. Around here about 1-2 hrs to figure and fix. It's an easy fix


stop union bashing Cletis


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## aftershockews

Can you take a snap shot of how the connections are made at the pole? Post it here?


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## pwoody

how is this not locked yet?


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## jman2012a

I will be able to post a picture on Friday. I am having another electrician come out on Friday morning and they will have testing equipment. Last electrician did not do any voltage testing. Any advice on what I should ensure the new guy cover? Looks like the last one either missed or overlooked the need to test.


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## aftershockews

I am willing to bet it is a POCO issue at the poll.


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## jman2012a

It took me 2 calls to get POCO (First Energy) out to the house. When I first called, we had snow on the ground and every day I would come home to see if there were any footprints by either the meter or the pole. After a couple of days of seeing no evidence that anyone came out I had to call them again. I am hoping that having 2 different electricians coming to my house will support my case with the POCO that the problem is on their end and they need to come out again and in the daytime. I hope that the electrician that comes out Friday finds and fixes the problem because it would be easier than having to deal with the POCO. If the 2nd electrician determines the problem is outside and the POCOs responsibility, any advice on how to get the POCO to be cooperative? 

Thanks again for all of those who have replied!


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## Switched

It can be so many different things. 

I try to tell my clients this;

Keep a notepad and pen at the ready. Whenever it starts to happen, write down where it is happening, what you were doing, what you were using, and how long it occurred.

It is a little like taking the car to the mechanic, only the noise stops as soon as you get there. If the issue does not occur at the moment that the electrician is there, it is unlikely they will diagnose it on the first call.

I have a bunch of circuit breakers that look nice on the outside, brand new some of them. The voltage tested good, all the connections were tight, etc....Guess what? The breakers were faulty on the inside. Drilled out the rivets and it was revealed. Not everything is solved on the first trip, especially with HO's that do not remember things as they actually occurred. Most of us generally know what it is, it is just a matter of pinpointing where it is occurring.


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## jman2012a

The 2nd electrician came out today. He tested the voltage and noted it was pretty even coming in. He torqued down the lugs in the meter box. Inspected both the main and sub panel. On the main panel, the main breaker would not shut off. They are ordering a new main breaker and will install it when it comes in. The box was installed in the 80s and is a 200 amp cutler hammer panel. Should the main breaker be hard to find? Hopefully when the new main breaker is installed it will take care of the problem.


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## aftershockews

jman2012a said:


> The 2nd electrician came out today. He tested the voltage and noted it was pretty even coming in. He torqued down the lugs in the meter box. Inspected both the main and sub panel. On the main panel, the main breaker would not shut off. They are ordering a new main breaker and will install it when it comes in. The box was installed in the 80s and is a 200 amp cutler hammer panel. Should the main breaker be hard to find? Hopefully when the new main breaker is installed it will take care of the problem.


The main breaker not shutting off is NOT you problem with the lights flickering.


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## jman2012a

Could it be a sign that the breaker is going bad?


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## jman2012a

Took some pictures of the pole. My line is coming in from the left.


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## CFL

jman2012a said:


> The 2nd electrician came out today. He tested the voltage and noted it was pretty even coming in. He torqued down the lugs in the meter box. Inspected both the main and sub panel. On the main panel, the main breaker would not shut off. They are ordering a new main breaker and will install it when it comes in. The box was installed in the 80s and is a 200 amp cutler hammer panel. Should the main breaker be hard to find? Hopefully when the new main breaker is installed it will take care of the problem.


You sound like a great customer to have. It's a shame neither electrician has solved your problem. Did you try to the main off yourself? The breaker shouldn't be hard to find. There are ways to find your problem which neither of your electricians did it appears. You could spend a lot of money trying different electricians so don't look for the cheapest guy out there, or the residential flat rate guy in the slick van. Get a reputable company to handle your future problems (not to say those guys aren't reputable).


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## bobelectric

Always blame poor Pogo.


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## aftershockews

jman2012a said:


> Took some pictures of the pole. My line is coming in from the left.


This tells me all the triplex has it's own connections, so if yours are bad it may not show up for your neighbors.
A good electrician should be able to either find and fix this issue in your home or isolate the issue to the POCO.
I had the same type issue last year. I own my house and had recently upgraded the service, relocated the main panel to the inside and rewired my house minus the existing receptacles.
Our lights would dim/flicker, mainly in the evenings. It was random.
I called the POCO and on first visit. I told them the issue is probably at the connections on the pole. They were able to get 1/4-1/2 turn on the lugs in the meter base and stated that should fix it.:no:
Second call and they stated the problem was the brass split bolts I installed at the service drop. And again I asked them to check the connections at the pole.:no: (I made sure wife got the split bolts back after they replaced with their wedge clamps)
3 months later and still having and issue, the neighbors across the street called into the POCO about dim/flickering lights and they sent a truck out that night, the crew replaced the connectors at the pole and we have not had an issue since.


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## bauler

Did the the POCO recently change to a smart meter? I have seen a couple of problems with these.


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## aftershockews

bauler said:


> Did the the POCO recently change to a smart meter? I have seen a couple of problems with these.


As a mater of fact yes. But how would that affect the connections at the pole? Or are you refering to the OP?


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## jman2012a

Talked to the manager of the electrician and they seem 95% sure that it is a faulty breaker. My flickering is a dimming (intermittently) and not brightening issue. They have ordered a new main breaker and will be able to install it in hopefully less than a week (takes 3-5 days to get it in). Since this has to be done as it is a safety issue and that it looks like it could be the cause, I will wait and see if this fixes it. I’ll keep you posted on the resolution relative to the main breaker.


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## erics37

jman2012a said:


> Talked to the manager of the electrician and they seem 95% sure that it is a faulty breaker. My flickering is a dimming (intermittently) and not brightening issue. They have ordered a new main breaker and will be able to install it in hopefully less than a week (takes 3-5 days to get it in). Since this has to be done as it is a safety issue and that it looks like it could be the cause, I will wait and see if this fixes it. I’ll keep you posted on the resolution relative to the main breaker.


Measuring a millivolt reading across the breaker while it's under load would be a bit more scientific way to ascertain the internal integrity of the breaker contacts.


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## Spark Master

A bad main wouldn't show on both legs. Most usually only 1.

& if the main doesn't turn off, don't mess with it. They do flash over when you start touching them. And you wouldn't want to be there when it happens.


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## fondini

You are going to need to post an address on here for invoicing.


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## guschash

I haven't been on this forum for awhile. Isn't it just for electricians and people in the electrical field ?


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## jza

guschash said:


> I haven't been on this forum for awhile. Isn't it just for electricians and people in the electrical field ?


We allow home inspectors too, so as far as I'm concerned home owners are more than welcome!


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## sbrn33

jza said:


> We allow home inspectors too, so as far as I'm concerned home owners are more than welcome!


This site needs a STFU button.


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## Czap

Might be a 3 wire some where spliced and branching out with a loose connection. Had a problem similiar to this had every device out of the wall. 

Of course the last one I took out had the bad splice


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## Shockdoc

I got that with the kitchen fixture and everytime it occurs something wierd in the house happens such as the smoke detector going off the other day for no apparent reason.


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## jman2012a

Since February, the main breaker was replaced and this did not resolve the problem. I previously turned off all sub panels and all the breakers in the main box except for one and plugged a light into it and it flickered as well. We had the POCO come out several times and they cut and reconnected all of the overhead feeds. Still flickered. Process took a bit long as one of the electricians we used had a relationship with the POCO and they were able to talk directly with the supervisors vs. going through the call center. This worked out getting the overhead wires redone as they came out the next day. But getting them to put on a monitoring device was another story. I ended up talking to one of the engineers at the POCO and he noted that they have seen power anomalies (similar to what I have been experiencing) along a certain corridor, of which I am part of. They have yet to pinpoint the cause of the system problem. They came out and put a monitoring device on the meter. They recently took it off (a little over a week ago). I talked to the engineer today and he noted that there was a slight fluctuation in power that would cause lights to flicker, however, it was not a hazard to our house. They have been trying to resolve this system wide issue for a while. They recently implemented a system change to resolve this and since that time, I have not noticed any flickering. Hopefully this will resolve the problem that began around January. 
I previously bought a voltmeter and noted the voltage would at times steadily jump in the range between 121 and 125 when the flickering would occur. 
When there is no noticeable flickering, the power still does fluctuate, but a much slower pace and usually within a volt +/- of 123.


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## Bugz11B

What types of bulbs do you have?? If you have CFL's or LED's then I can give you a few possible issues (although any half ass service tech should have caught um).


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## mbednarik

I had a service call about a flickering issue, turned out to be a poco primary. Rural location and only 2 customers on that phase from the sub station. Burned up switch is what they told me, temp fixed with some wr's and 3 ft of wire.:whistling2:


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## zapped_electric

jman2012a said:


> Our lights intermittently flicker in whole house and have been doing so for about 3 weeks. Since it is intermittent, it took us a while to figure out what was going on and that it was not related to any appliance or the furnace. Week 2 we called the utility company and after 2 calls they came out an inspected the outside lines. Of course they sent the guy out in the evening. Anyway, he noted the neutral was secure at the line into the meter box and he said he tightened the connections at the pole. He said to check with the neighbors to see if they have the same problem. Checked with the neighbor who shares the same drop from the transformer and they do not have any flickering. During week 3 (today) had an electrician come out to look at our boxes and the meter box. He came out around noon on a bright day. He tightened a somewhat loose neutral and the main panel and then tightened another item in a sub panel. He also made sure that all other connections were secure. He also checked to see that the connections in the meter box were secure. None of the panels nor the meter box exhibited any signs of corrosion or arcing. I was present when he was doing the work. When dusk hit, I noticed that the lights across all circuits continue to intermittently flicker. The flickering pattern seems to be random in timing and length. One point of reference. The sub-panel controls all of the lights in the house across multiple circuits. The main panel came to play when a previous home owner in the 80s had an attached garage added, which was between the pole and the prior main panel (now the sub panel).
> 
> Looking for any advice on the next course of action to take relative to an electrician and/or poco.


You sound like you have a very good understanding of electricity. Are you still having this problem??

I rencently had the same problem at a costomer's house. Lights were flickering intermittently. I thought it might be a loose neutral as well. House had a 100A 120/240V service, installed only 3-4 years ago. 

I first tied reading my incoming voltage's at the main breaker with all the branch circuits ON. My voltage readings were fluctuating from both phases around 120V to Phase A as high as 134V while phase B dropped to 106V. 

I shut all the Main breaker off & did my voltage checks. I was getting the same fluctuations with no load on. 

I conntacted the supply authority to come check, but they said all there connections were OK. 

At the time, it was still winter (I live in the NWT Canada), I thought it might be a grounding issue, but I wasn't able to access it with the snow. As of yet, I have not returned to the house. I have been very tied up with other jobs, but I will get back.

You must be having voltage fluctaions as well to cause the flickering. Are you able to confirm your ground/earth connection? Was this always an issue or did it start suddenly?? Have you tried checking your voltage's at your Main with the branch circuits off?? 

I would like to be able to help you solve this as it may help me with my problem.


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## Meadow

Deleted


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## Meadow

pwoody said:


> how is this not locked yet?


 
Im asking the same question. 

Uummm, Hey mods you missed a thread...:whistling2:


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## magneticpersona

This has happened to me before. It took a lot of investigating, but we finally found out that there was a broken lug under the meter. How does this even happen?

our theory was that the vibration over time caused this. We'll never know for sure though!


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## JohnR

Get some junk tv's and then call the poco and tell them that now you have a bunch of dead appliances. You can straighten that later, but it will make them pay more attention to your claim of power quality issues.


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## xlink

It's always the old deep freeze in the garage.


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## drspec

I found this yesterday on a similar call. Waiting on approval from HO for replacement.


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## Grimes

Ghost.


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## RIVETER

jman2012a said:


> Our lights intermittently flicker in whole house and have been doing so for about 3 weeks. Since it is intermittent, it took us a while to figure out what was going on and that it was not related to any appliance or the furnace. Week 2 we called the utility company and after 2 calls they came out an inspected the outside lines. Of course they sent the guy out in the evening. Anyway, he noted the neutral was secure at the line into the meter box and he said he tightened the connections at the pole. He said to check with the neighbors to see if they have the same problem. Checked with the neighbor who shares the same drop from the transformer and they do not have any flickering. During week 3 (today) had an electrician come out to look at our boxes and the meter box. He came out around noon on a bright day. He tightened a somewhat loose neutral and the main panel and then tightened another item in a sub panel. He also made sure that all other connections were secure. He also checked to see that the connections in the meter box were secure. None of the panels nor the meter box exhibited any signs of corrosion or arcing. I was present when he was doing the work. When dusk hit, I noticed that the lights across all circuits continue to intermittently flicker. The flickering pattern seems to be random in timing and length. One point of reference. The sub-panel controls all of the lights in the house across multiple circuits. The main panel came to play when a previous home owner in the 80s had an attached garage added, which was between the pole and the prior main panel (now the sub panel).
> 
> Looking for any advice on the next course of action to take relative to an electrician and/or poco.


If all connections are secured, check and see..."pull", breakers involved. Check for pitted, or loose contacts.


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## kub

drspec said:


> I found this yesterday on a similar call. Waiting on approval from HO for replacement.


We replace these ch meters atleast 2-3 a month biggest pieces of junk out there


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## lighterup

I have had a similar service call and the flickering was in fact a circuit
breaker that was going bad. I replaced it and the problem stopped .

It may very well be the main that is stuck in position.

If lugs needed tightening by the previous guys , then that means they
were too loose to begin with , so you didn't waste your money...that
needed to be done too.


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## Big John

lighterup said:


> ...If lugs needed tightening by the previous guys , then that means they were too loose to begin with....


 I'd argue that. Proper torque on cable lugs is often not that tight.


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## noarcflash

Big John said:


> I'd argue that. Proper torque on cable lugs is often not that tight.


I feel they loosen up from expansion and contraction. Especially connections that are loaded to 80% of capacity.


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## 8V71

And cold flow.


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## Big John

noarcflash said:


> I feel they loosen up from expansion and contraction. Especially connections that are loaded to 80% of capacity.


 Proper torque values take cold flow into consideration. By retorquing you actually run the risk of deforming the conductor beyond it's elastic point and _causing _cold flow. 

We often get asked to re-torque cable lugs during PM and our policy is to never do it. Unless we have verifiable evidence of a poor connection like a high Ductor or we can see it on IR, the terminations don't get touched. Retorquing is likely to create more problems than it fixes.


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## Roadhouse

a/c compressor going out or it's run cap.


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## the-apprentice

we had a similar issue at work at a guys barn, hydro came out 2 times..the 3rd time they came out and said there crimps at the poll were no good


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## gold

This is an interesting thread despite it being started by a ****.


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