# Gas range tripping breaker



## Canaduh

I installed a dedicated 15 amp line for a gas stove that was being installed to replace an electric range.
Today I get a call that the range is tripping the breaker. I installed a 15 amp afci circuit for this stove.
The homeowner tells me that the breaker doesn't trip when the igniters are sparking for the top which is what I assumed.
The breaker is instead tripping after a few minutes of using the actual oven when heating it.

I've had pretty good luck with afci breakers so far, especially these Siemens ones.
I plan to meter the line while its heating but other than that, I have no clue where to start with this other than replacing with a regular breaker.

Any thoughts?


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## MechanicalDVR

A short of some type around the oven shell that occurs when there is heat expansion.


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## frenchelectrican

Canaduh said:


> I installed a dedicated 15 amp line for a gas stove that was being installed to replace an electric range.
> Today I get a call that the range is tripping the breaker. I installed a 15 amp afci circuit for this stove.
> The homeowner tells me that the breaker doesn't trip when the igniters are sparking for the top which is what I assumed.
> The breaker is instead tripping after a few minutes of using the actual oven when heating it.
> 
> I've had pretty good luck with afci breakers so far, especially these Siemens ones.
> I plan to meter the line while its heating but other than that, I have no clue where to start with this other than replacing with a regular breaker.
> 
> Any thoughts?


The clue is any type of wiring along the oven cavity area can cause the shorting so the oven do expand when it warm up. 

if this stove is brand new then you should call the appalince tech to deal with it due the warranty related issue.


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## Canaduh

MechanicalDVR said:


> A short of some type around the oven shell that occurs when there is heat expansion.





frenchelectrican said:


> The clue is any type of wiring along the oven cavity area can cause the shorting so the oven do expand when it warm up.
> 
> if this stove is brand new then you should call the appalince tech to deal with it due the warranty related issue.


Thanks for the posts. Yes the oven is brand new.
I will check the led status light on the breaker to help diagnose the problem but how can I tell that it is 100% the stove that's causing the fault and not the breaker itself?

Absolute worst case scenario is they get the stove replaced and this still happens! 
I guess I should start by replacing for a new afci breaker first.


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## frenchelectrican

Canaduh said:


> Thanks for the posts. Yes the oven is brand new.
> I will check the led status light on the breaker to help diagnose the problem but how can I tell that it is 100% the stove that's causing the fault and not the breaker itself?
> 
> Absolute worst case scenario is they get the stove replaced and this still happens!
> I guess I should start by replacing for a new afci breaker first.


Did ya say Siemens breaker ? If so it should have two diffrent id code depending on which type of fault it show up.

Sometime the breaker can go bad too. 

Some case you can try test with conventail breaker to make sure it is stove issue. 

If that did trip the conventail breaker then tell the customer that the stove have to be checked out with tech under the warranty. 

If that stove did came with factory cord is any chance it was pinching along somewhere it not to be there?


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## MechanicalDVR

Canaduh said:


> Thanks for the posts. Yes the oven is brand new.
> I will check the led status light on the breaker to help diagnose the problem but how can I tell that it is 100% the stove that's causing the fault and not the breaker itself?
> 
> Absolute worst case scenario is they get the stove replaced and this still happens!
> I guess I should start by replacing for a new afci breaker first.


Take an amp reading when the oven is heating up for one thing.

You could also put it on a regular breaker just for troubleshooting.


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## Canaduh

MechanicalDVR said:


> Take an amp reading when the oven is heating up for one thing.
> 
> You could also put it on a regular breaker just for troubleshooting.


I plan to take a reading with my clamp meter. My meter has min/max so hopefully the breaker trips while I'm reading it. 

I really doubt this is an overload issue. How exactly would replacing with a regular breaker help in diagnosing the issue?


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## MechanicalDVR

Canaduh said:


> I plan to take a reading with my clamp meter. My meter has min/max so hopefully the breaker trips while I'm reading it.
> 
> I really doubt this is an overload issue. How exactly would replacing with a regular breaker help in diagnosing the issue?


It would let you know if it's your breaker or not without doing more than swapping out the conductor (quick and easy while not replacing the breaker).


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## frenchelectrican

Canaduh said:


> I plan to take a reading with my clamp meter. My meter has min/max so hopefully the breaker trips while I'm reading it.
> 
> I really doubt this is an overload issue. How exactly would replacing with a regular breaker help in diagnosing the issue?


To rule out if the stove is the curpit and if the convental breaker hold up good then you may have bad AFCI breaker.

but as I mention above if the conventail breaker tripped then yes you do have issue with new stove.

It should not trip the AFCI if done properly from factory. 

Some stove use the glow plugs instead of electric sparker so once the oven get warm up the glow plug may shifted some when it get hot in that area and cause the AFCI to trip if one of the conductor is shifted enough to trip it out. 

The main reason why I say use conventail breaker to rule it out quick to confirm if either AFCI or stove is causing the issue.


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## Canaduh

frenchelectrican said:


> To rule out if the stove is the curpit and if the convental breaker hold up good then you may have bad AFCI breaker.
> 
> but as I mention above if the conventail breaker tripped then yes you do have issue with new stove.
> 
> It should not trip the AFCI if done properly from factory.
> 
> Some stove use the glow plugs instead of electric sparker so once the oven get warm up the glow plug may shifted some when it get hot in that area and cause the AFCI to trip if one of the conductor is shifted enough to trip it out.
> 
> The main reason why I say use conventail breaker to rule it out quick to confirm if either AFCI or stove is causing the issue.



Thanks for the help. I have never heard of glow plug for stove ignites, I will have to look into that.


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## nrp3

I pull the wiring from the panel and meg it first with the appliance unplugged. Helps to rule out the wiring first. I’ve filled out the reports on afci safety.org, which may not be relevant to Canada, but the manufacturer (Eaton) did respond and send a new breaker with different software out. Now whether there’s something internally wrong with the stove or not, that’s a good question, as others stated, catching what led is lit on the breaker may help.


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## 3DDesign

Do your codes require this circuit to be AF protected?


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## chicken steve

Switch to GE Canaduh

They threw out the GF protection , essentially the toroidal heart of an afci

~CS~


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## WPNortheast

Thql afcis literally do nothing.lain:


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## JayB240

Does NEC 2017 Treat 120 power for gas stoves as not requiring protection (kind of like a refrigerator receptacle?


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## Canaduh

3DDesign said:


> Do your codes require this circuit to be AF protected?


Yes we have to here in Ontario



chicken steve said:


> Switch to GE Canaduh
> 
> They threw out the GF protection , essentially the toroidal heart of an afci
> 
> ~CS~


Its a Siemens panel


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## Canaduh

I spent an hour trying to figure out whats causing the trip. The LED status light indicated an arc fault as the last cause for the breaker tripping. 
7 amps was max on the circuit after testing various settings of the oven for a good hour.
And of course the breaker did not trip while I was testing it. The homeowner says it usually happens before the oven reached the set temp.


Anyway I swapped the breaker for a new one. if it happens again.. in goes a regular breaker and I'll be done with it....


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## chicken steve

You can file a report on this Canaduh

~CS~


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## HackWork

chicken steve said:


> *Switch to GE *Canaduh
> 
> They threw out the GF protection , essentially the toroidal heart of an afci
> 
> ~CS~


So Mr. Professional now thinks it's OK to put the wrong breaker into a panel, huh? Tell me which code allows a GE AFCI in a Siemens panel, rookie.


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## Canaduh

WPNortheast said:


> Thql afcis literally do nothing.lain:


Care to elaborate on this comment?


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## Canaduh

chicken steve said:


> You can file a report on this Canaduh
> 
> ~CS~


I've done so with GE breakers twice and never heard back from anyone.


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## nrp3

My dealings were with Eaton and they responded quickly. I haven't had to file one for GE yet.


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## JayB240

What was the final solution?


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## HackWork

JayB240 said:


> What was the final solution?


Ovens.


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## Canaduh

JayB240 said:


> What was the final solution?


Went back to the house and the led indicated the last trip was an arc fault but not to ground. After 30 minutes of testing I couldn't get the existing breaker to trip.
I meggered the wire and all was good. Replaced the breaker with a new afci and tested the oven on various settings and temps for 1.5 hours. I even opened and closed the oven door thinking something in there was pinched and closing the door caused enough vibration to trip the breaker.. nothing.

I replaced the arc fault breaker anyway. Already lost on this one. If I get a call back again I will be using a normal breaker.


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