# Can't get accepted



## IBEW613 (Aug 17, 2009)

This will be my 3rd attempt at the I.B.E.W. apprenticeship program aptitude test. I love electrical work with a passion and I don't see myself pursuing any other career. It's just the MATH. I can study and understand the equations (most of them), but when it comes down to test time I feel like I haven't even studied. Does anyone know a good study guide for the test? One that I can focus on problems that are related to the test and not learn a bunch of formulas that I will never use. I would greatly appreciate any positive feedback. THANKS


----------



## mpoulton (Jul 17, 2009)

IBEW613 said:


> Does anyone know a good study guide for the test? One that I can focus on problems that are related to the test and not learn a bunch of formulas that I will never use. I would greatly appreciate any positive feedback. THANKS


No, but I can tell what the problem is. In order to be able to reliably and "effortlessly" solve electrical calculation problems, you have to understand electricity. If you understand how it works, remembering and using the formulas will be second nature, because the formulas are just written expressions of electrical rules. I assure you, any formulas presented in any review book are not only useful, but also are the mathematical representations of the basic rules of electrical circuits. Perhaps you should focus your studying on understanding circuits more than on memorizing formulas?


----------



## Mikeomo (May 7, 2009)

If you can't get into the union apprenticeship program because of the exam, have you considered one through a local business association? Check out www.nccer.org . I joined a program though a local contractors association. There was a skillls test (reading, math) to take, but it doesn't determine if they will accept you or not, it simply detemines where you start in the program. You will take math classes and they will teach you what you need to know instead of handing you an exam and expecting you to pass. Good luck :thumbsup:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

While the job market is slim there are several options for you.

Work open shop no apprenticeship.

Work Open shop through a program as Mike stated.

Hit a community college. The math on these test are not electrical and do not require a knowledge of electricity as much as they require PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.


----------



## Buck Parrish (May 7, 2009)

Perhaps ,you could hire a math tuter.


----------



## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I have no idea why the IBEW apprenticeship program is so math intensive . I have been a apprenticeship instructor in the past as well as a electrician for 25+years.I am here to tell you that on the job you do not use that much advanced math. I think somewhere along the line that we are forgetting that we are training blue collar workers and not engineers .We also have to realise that as electricians we should not be doing engineering calculations because we have not been trained as engineers and we can not sign off on designs.
One should have a good of understanding of general math and the math that is required to do Ohms Law and basic circuit analisis and basic AC and DC theory but as far as doing complex theroms it is a true waste of time and there is much other important subjects that should be taught.


----------



## Dtothej (Jun 25, 2008)

I wouldn't call the math on the apprentice test complex. Its all stuff you should have learned in high school; its not college level. Math is a tool. Sure you might not use some of the harder stuff in everyday situations but knowing how to use the right tool when needed is invaluable. There is a lot of stuff to algebra that can make things easier. Pythagorean theorum is an example of something that coud be of use.

If your really having a hard time passing the math portion the best thing you could do is enroll at your local community college. The math you will see on the test is stuff covered in intermediate algebra and below.


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I agree with Dtothej the math is not that advanced if you paid attention in school. If you didn't do well in school maybe you should pick another trade. This trade has above average people and you will compete against them your entire career.
I've had many Doctors tell me that that most of the things they were taught in medical school (think apprentice classes) are useless, they learn almost everything in residency (think OJT). They all agree that this duel track method keeps stupid people from becoming doctors by keeping out the riffraff.
Look at the effect on other professions and trades that do not require a duel track system, engineers that are book smart but clueless and sheet rockers that can hang a board but can’t conjugate a verb.:mellow:


----------



## Mikeomo (May 7, 2009)

brian john said:


> While the job market is slim there are several options for you.
> 
> Work open shop no apprenticeship.
> 
> ...


I personally wouldn't suggest working open shop w/o an apprenticeship... 

An apprenticeship program has so many benefits to it and once you've been with an employer for a little bit it's free. Plus raises approx every 6 months. I would suggest either the union program or the NCCER program.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Mikeomo said:


> I personally wouldn't suggest working open shop w/o an apprenticeship...
> 
> An apprenticeship program has so many benefits to it and once you've been with an employer for a little bit it's free. Plus raises approx every 6 months. I would suggest either the union program or the NCCER program.


Go to your local high school and check into night classes. General math and algebra should be all you need. Same stuff you did not pay attention to in high school.
Don't feel bad. Math is and still is my worst subject and I have been in the trade for over 30 years. I am now retired.


----------



## kevgeez (Jun 2, 2009)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I have no idea why the IBEW apprenticeship program is so math intensive . I have been a apprenticeship instructor in the past as well as a electrician for 25+years.I am here to tell you that on the job you do not use that much advanced math.* I think somewhere along the line that we are forgetting that we are training blue collar workers and not engineers .*We also have to realise that as electricians we should not be doing engineering calculations because we have not been trained as engineers and we can not sign off on designs.
> One should have a good of understanding of general math and the math that is required to do Ohms Law and basic circuit analisis and basic AC and DC theory but as far as doing complex theroms it is a true waste of time and there is much other important subjects that should be taught.


This sums up what i have been thinking after seeing how ridiculously hard the Math part of the test was.
I mean...wtf
I studied for this thing and i dont think i got 3 answers correct. 
I only finished half of the Math test.
But back to the quote:
They keep raising the standard of the Math portion and all the new electricans are not going to be blue collar type guys. 
And THAT is why the level of Apprentice quality has dropped off in the last 20 years or so.

Put a white collar worker in the feild and what happens?
He's lazy. Complains about everything including how hot or cold it is( because he''s not in his cubicle). 
Always on the cell phone. And will not know the difference between a Wrench and a hammer.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

kevgeez said:


> This sums up what i have been thinking after seeing how ridiculously hard the Math part of the test was.
> I mean...wtf
> I studied for this thing and i dont think i got 3 answers correct.
> I only finished half of the Math test.
> ...


 
They are limiting the available work force as I have stated in other post to maintain or attempt to drive wages up.


The average construction electrician can learn all the math they need to work OJT.

90% of the apprentices (notice my percentages keep going up) forget most of what they learn in the apprenticeship program.

Is Georgia a strong union state. CONSIDER open shop.


----------



## hairdog (Aug 24, 2009)

The main reason he is not getting accepted is because we have around 130 apprentices on the books right now.So the one's they are taking in they are being very selective. 

As far as the math goes I agree that most of it's a waste . I've been doing this for 17 years and have maybe used 1/20th of the math I was taught. I'm getting tired of doing the work a engineer is getting paid to do ,but screws up, and we have to fix it. What's wrong with that picture?

Keep your head up and don't get discouraged. Once work picks back up they will be begging for apprentices. It happens every time.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

hairdog said:


> As far as the math goes I agree that most of it's a waste . I've been doing this for 17 years and have maybe used 1/20th of the math I was taught. I'm getting tired of doing the work a engineer is getting paid to do ,but screws up, and we have to fix it. What's wrong with that picture?



I agree with the math issue.

But as far as engineering goes I like doing this. It expands your skills and boost a boring job into something interesting.


----------



## hairdog (Aug 24, 2009)

It wouldn't be so bad if we got paid to do it. It just sucks having to do someone else's job that they get paid to do. Your right though it does taking some of the bore out of the job.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I do simple math with a pencil, and long division?

I have a calculator on my phone.

Who cares how you do it, so long as it's done, right?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

hairdog said:


> It wouldn't be so bad if we got paid to do it. It just sucks having to do someone else's job that they get paid to do. Your right though it does taking some of the bore out of the job.


 
Then someone sees you taking the initiative and boom you get a raise, a promotion, better benefits.


----------

