# Concerns about flush mount panel on exterior wall



## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

As an A2 who works on commercial jobs. (we normally mount on block or on interior walls) I have another question for you resi guys. I just roughed in my brother's garage for a 100amp sub panel, 3x 20amp receptacle circuits, a 30amp 220v recep and a dedicated welding circuit I asked about previously in the forum. 

When I asked him initially he wanted the panel flush mounted as he would like to finish the garage walls and paint. I didn't think much of it until tonight. I had flush cut several siding nails not only to mount the panel but routing the feeder and branch circuits. All of the wiring and sub panel reside on exterior walls. He plans on having the house resided in the future with new vinyl. If it was a wood or hardi plank I wouldn't be worried as these are normally nailed to studs. I don't think the fasteners need to land on studs with vinyl. 

Is it a concern having someone shoot siding nails into the wiring in the future? I can see someone shooting a nail right through the back of the can into a bus bar or landing one in the mc feeder. 

If so I am still in the position to surface mount and pipe conduits up into the ceiling. 

Just curious.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

sayn3ver said:


> As an A2 who works on commercial jobs. (we normally mount on block or on interior walls) I have another question for you resi guys. I just roughed in my brother's garage for a 100amp sub panel, 3x 20amp receptacle circuits, a 30amp 220v recep and a dedicated welding circuit I asked about previously in the forum.
> 
> When I asked him initially he wanted the panel flush mounted as he would like to finish the garage walls and paint. I didn't think much of it until tonight. I had flush cut several siding nails not only to mount the panel but routing the feeder and branch circuits. All of the wiring and sub panel reside on exterior walls. He plans on having the house resided in the future with new vinyl. If it was a wood or hardi plank I wouldn't be worried as these are normally nailed to studs. I don't think the fasteners need to land on studs with vinyl.
> 
> ...


Well you do not want siding nails hitting your Wires so you need to use some pipe or nail plates to protect them.

So in this case you can still flush mount the panel but you should pipe the wires for protection,,,Those nails will not penetrate the panel however.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Edit...my bad, I missed the MC feeder


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

I threw nail plates on the interior where any wires pass through studs prior to posting just for safe measure (in places that do not require them for minimum code). as I don't know who will be rocking. Always a little paranoid. Rotozips instill similar anxiety :laughing:

However in all seriousness there was no way to avoid running at least part of the feed up a stud bay from where it enters the attached garage from down by the band/ledger board up to the attic space to make a 90degree turn. 

My original plan was mounting a trough up in the attic anyways for the branch ciruits and piping them down the stud bay to the panel. I am thinking the surface mount might be safer regardless but would not look as cosmetically appealing with the exposed conduits on strut. 

Or maybe I am over engineering this. Ha


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

its done like you have it done 1000's of times a day when you consider all the re-siding jobs performed.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

sayn3ver said:


> As an A2 who works on commercial jobs. (we normally mount on block or on interior walls) I have another question for you resi guys. I just roughed in my brother's garage for a 100amp sub panel, 3x 20amp receptacle circuits, a 30amp 220v recep and a dedicated welding circuit I asked about previously in the forum.
> 
> When I asked him initially he wanted the panel flush mounted as he would like to finish the garage walls and paint. I didn't think much of it until tonight. I had flush cut several siding nails not only to mount the panel but routing the feeder and branch circuits. All of the wiring and sub panel reside on exterior walls. He plans on having the house resided in the future with new vinyl. If it was a wood or hardi plank I wouldn't be worried as these are normally nailed to studs. I don't think the fasteners need to land on studs with vinyl.
> 
> ...


I just did a 150 amp sub on a 30'x60' detached garage ( pole barn ) . Would have gone 200 Amp , but the underground 1 1/4" PVC wasn't large enough for the feeder , and the owner wasn't interested in digging up the yard . I went the surface route with conduit and I'm glad I did because , things changed a lot throughout the process ! It's a lot easier to add , change or expand when the panel is surface mounted . Recessed panels only belong in finished rooms . I don't consider a garage a finished room .


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If he's insulating that garage, you have a problem with that recessed panel.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> Well you do not want siding nails hitting your Wires so you need to use some pipe or nail plates to protect them.
> 
> So in this case you can still flush mount the panel but you should pipe the wires for protection,,,*Those nails will not penetrate the panel however.*


I would have to disagree.
Several years ago, a customer of ours was having new siding installed. A nail got shot into the upper buss of this split buss panel. Since there was no main before the upper buss, the panel and the exterior wall caught fire.
Now in defense of those doing the siding. When this panel was installed, the wall stud had to be cut therefore this panel was sitting in the middle of a wall stud.


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## NjSpark (Feb 14, 2013)

drumnut08 said:


> I just did a 150 amp sub on a 30'x60' detached garage ( pole barn ) . Would have gone 200 Amp , but the underground 1 1/4" PVC wasn't large enough for the feeder , and the owner wasn't interested in digging up the yard . I went the surface route with conduit and I'm glad I did because , things changed a lot throughout the process ! It's a lot easier to add , change or expand when the panel is surface mounted . Recessed panels only belong in finished rooms . I don't consider a garage a finished room .


Run a pipe or two to a trough mounted somewhere accessible for future additions.

On just about every job where I am working on the panel and the walls are open I always give the customer a price to add a couple of 3/4" smurftubes to a box in an open location. It's easy work and easy money.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

NjSpark said:


> Run a pipe or two to a trough mounted somewhere accessible for future additions.
> 
> On just about every job where I am working on the panel and the walls are open I always give the customer a price to add a couple of 3/4" smurftubes to a box in an open location. It's easy work and easy money.


Thanks , but I already do that , lol . In a case as a garage / workshop , I tend to like going surface with conduit to really make changes and upgrades easy . It's all up to the customer an what they're willing to pay . I give them these options up front .


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> If he's insulating that garage, you have a problem with that recessed panel.


Why?


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

No insulation just rock and paint. 


The homeruns will land in a box in the attic one way or the other. As this is a family member ill just chat with him and see what he wants to do. I just want to avoid future headaches. 

Thanks all for the input.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Deep Cover said:


> Why?


You have broken the vapor barrier and caused an insulation void. Of course, I live in the frozen north. We take those things seriously.

Okay, he said no insulation...


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> You have broken the vapor barrier and caused an insulation void. Of course, I live in the frozen north. We take those things seriously.
> 
> Okay, he said no insulation...


Its a garage. I'm pretty sure it would be OK.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

You need a thin layer of amulite behind panel to repel the nails


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

:whistling2:Just think, you can get a future service call at the expense of the siding guys someday.


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

99cents said:


> You have broken the vapor barrier and caused an insulation void. Of course, I live in the frozen north. We take those things seriously.
> 
> Okay, he said no insulation...


I take that seriously though. Not only do you create a thermal hole but possible moisture damage issues like mold from the warm moist vapor condensing as it migrates outward. 

It's an attached garage tho so he would have to invest in a separate heating system which is money he does not have to spend. Considering the large garage door which is probably a non insulated model and you start asking "what's the point?" Except for those times where you need to work on the car in January and would like to be able to feel your finger tips.


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

JohnR said:


> :whistling2:Just think, you can get a future service call at the expense of the siding guys someday.


This is my younger brother's home. Any future service call doesn't make me money. I am helping him out. 

He'll help me out when I need steel set or welding done. Ha. He's an iron worker.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

sayn3ver said:


> I take that seriously though. Not only do you create a thermal hole but possible moisture damage issues like mold from the warm moist vapor condensing as it migrates outward.
> 
> It's an attached garage tho so he would have to invest in a separate heating system which is money he does not have to spend. Considering the large garage door which is probably a non insulated model and you start asking "what's the point?" Except for those times where you need to work on the car in January and would like to be able to feel your finger tips.


If its an attached garage, you have at least one warm wall already. You would be surprised at how warm a properly insulated and sealed attached garage will be with no heat source of its own. I would never think of boarding the inside of an attached garage without insulation and vapor barrier.


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

The one side adjacent to the house is insulated, vapored and rocked already. We didn't want to disturb that wall with an electrical install. 

There is another 1/2 wall that is adjacent to the house as well which finished the same way. The ceiling is rocked and taped already as well but is uninsulated. 

Basically there are two unfinished walls and the bit of wall above the overhead garage door. Which might equal 13 sheets of drywall total. 

As long as the garage is unheated there should be no moisture problems. I realize it will remain slightly warmer than ambient due to the radiant heat from the house but will not be drastically different in temp and contain no additional air moisture unliked a conditioned space. Conditioned space is where people reside...respiration, cooking, laundry and showering add huge quantities of water vapor to the air. An unheated garage's humidity should closely mimic the outdoor air quality.


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