# joints in an LB??



## LTH306 (Feb 1, 2011)

i've always herd you cant do joints in an LB, but i cant find a code saying that you cant...is it true you cant and if so, what is the code saying you cant...or can you do joints in an LB??


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Please just post one thread on a subject. 

Look at art. 314.16(C)(2). Splices are allowed if the conduit body is marked for volume. But you are from Canada so......


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

LTH306 said:


> i've always herd you cant do joints in an LB, but i cant find a code saying that you cant...is it true you cant and if so, what is the code saying you cant...or can you do joints in an LB??


Good question! 

The following rules cover splices or joints in wireways etc.
Although 12-2106 says that you can, the other ones cancel it.
Maybe if you used an LB 4 times the conduit size and only had a pair of marrettes in it?

12-910 Joints or splices within raceways
There shall be no joints or splices in conductors or cables within raceways, except in the case of busways,
wireways, cable trays, and surface raceways with removable covers.
12-1610 Joints and splices
Joints and splices shall be permitted in surface raceways having a removable cover that is accessible after
installation and shall not fill the raceway to more than 75% of its area at that point.
12-2106 Taps and splices in wireways
Where taps and splices are made on feeders or branch circuits within wireways, the connection shall be insulated
and shall be accessible.
12-3004 Terminal fittings
(1) Where conductors are run from the ends of conduit, armoured cable, surface raceways, or non-metallicsheathed
cable to appliances or open wiring, an outlet fitting or terminal fitting shall be permitted to be
used instead of the box required by Rule 12-3000, and the conductors shall be run without splice, tap, or
joint within the fitting.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

As we have more Canadians on the site, it will be interesting to see the differences between NEC and CEC.

This seems to be a major one.

Edit -12-1610 Joints and splices
Joints and splices shall be permitted in surface raceways having a removable cover that is accessible after
installation and shall not fill the raceway to more than 75% of its area at that point.


Do the canadian inspectors recognize 75% fill as pretty much whatever can be put/shoved in, and the cover screwed on?


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Rockyd said:


> As we have more Canadians on the site, it will be interesting to see the differences between NEC and CEC.
> 
> This seems to be a major one.
> 
> ...


To be honest, I can count on 1 hand the number of times I have used a fitting to splice. So I wouldn't know if the suspectors would look for fill
I do remember that many years ago, we used to make splices when Alu-sheath was used. 
Now I find it easier to use a weatherproof JB for splicing. I would have to look at a LB and see if the CI is marked.

The good inspectors do check out box fill.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I think an LB would be a dumb place to put your joints. Don't most people just hide them in a partial pack of cigarettes?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I'm no expert, but I think an LB would be a dumb place to put your joints. Don't most people just hide them in a partial pack of cigarettes?


Dammit I was going to say that.

On the other hand, it's probably the last place the police would look :001_huh:


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

wcord said:


> Good question!
> 
> The following rules cover splices or joints in wireways etc.
> Although 12-2106 says that you can, the other ones cancel it.
> ...


 You're needlessly confusing yourself here and listing rules that don't apply. 

*Raceways *are a subsection of section 12 that goes from 12-900 to 12-2210

12-902 to 12-942 are the general rules that apply to all raceways. 

*Raceways *is the general definition that includes everything, go deeper into that subsection and it is broken down into further subsections that cover specific things like cable tray, emt, liquid tight, etc. 

For example we're talking about EMT, the only rules apply to installing EMT under raceways are the general raceway rules that go from 12-902 to 12-942 and the specific EMT rules that go from 12-1400 to 12-1410, any EMT specific rules over-ride the general rules. The rest don't apply.

12-1610 - Only applies only to surface raceways.
12-2106 - Only applies only to wireways (cable trough)
12-3004 - Is under "Installations of boxes, cabinets, outlets, and terminal fittings'. This rule has nothing to do with raceways.

To answer the OP's question, no you can't put joints in an LB. 12-910 is the code your looking for.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

wcord said:


> To be honest, I can count on 1 hand the number of times I have used a fitting to splice. So I wouldn't know if the suspectors would look for fill
> I do remember that many years ago, we used to make splices when Alu-sheath was used.
> Now I find it easier to use a weatherproof JB for splicing. I would have to look at a LB and see if the CI is marked.
> 
> The good inspectors do check out box fill.


 I used to do this regularly, but it was for a specific purpose. Some sensors for industrial control have very short wire leads and nowhere internally to make the connection. You could mount the sensor to a 4" round box and do the connection in that box, but it's a lot cleaner and more appealing to make the connections in a c-fitting.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> I'm no expert, but I think an LB would be a dumb place to put your joints. Don't most people just hide them in a partial pack of cigarettes?


 I don't buy that non expert line.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I'm no expert, but I think an LB would be a dumb place to put your joints. Don't most people just hide them in a partial pack of cigarettes?


I worked with a guy who stashed his in a 4s deep with blank plate. Easier to access than a condulet. You only need to loosen the screws on a 4s. You can also hide an easy $5K in a tiger grip box.


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