# Dumb crimper question...



## joeyuk (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm with you. I carry the Klein also and use it as you did. 
Perhaps ask him why. We all may learn something


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## Mackie (Mar 16, 2008)

joeyuk said:


> I'm with you. I carry the Klein also and use it as you did.
> Perhaps ask him why. We all may learn something


Right!? Like fusible links on rec's!?!

Yeah, what upset me was the way in which he handled the situation. He didn't give me an explanation and his tone was very disappointed sounding. Like I'm a chump (chimp?) who don't know nuthin. 

It's ridiculous, because, the crimp the Kleins make looks real nice and clean and the el cheapos just kinda mush the crimp. Never mind that under strain the wire would snap before the crimp would fail with the Kleins...

IDK, I'm noticing a lot of sketchy stuff there the more I learn and study. It seems like I'm the only guy there that takes safety, proper tools and technique, electric code-worthiness, quality and learning seriously and my 'cream' doesn't seem to be rising to the top as it should... but now I'm ranting which should be relegated to a blog somewhere else....

:whistling2:

thanx!


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

Mackie said:


> Right!? Like fusible links on rec's!?!
> 
> Yeah, what upset me was the way in which he handled the situation. He didn't give me an explanation and his tone was very disappointed sounding. Like I'm a chump (chimp?) who don't know nuthin.
> 
> ...


IDK if your union but I highly suggest you find a new contractor to work for, from the sound of things you are worried about safety in the shop. If you ever worry about safety you should find somewhere safer to work!


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

dowmace said:


> IDK if your union but I highly suggest you find a new contractor to work for, from the sound of things you are worried about safety in the shop. If you ever worry about safety you should find somewhere safer to work!


 
I second that advise. I use the crimpers you showed for some things but for 10awg stranded I use these
http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/t1715.html


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I bought a moderately expensive terminal kit from Ideal that had hundreds of those terminals,...... and included that same tool. :whistling2:


Same kit as this Panduit kit:


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> I second that advise. I use the crimpers you showed for some things but for 10awg stranded I use these
> http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/t1715.html


that is officially on my to-buy list!


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

dowmace said:


> that is officially on my to-buy list!


 
It's a good choice, much smaller than the Ideal with changable dies, it fits into control boxes much easier.


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## Ecopat (Apr 17, 2008)

I use an MH-3D "Marvel-Crimping tool" It Japanese and very well made, but for boxes I use a pair of old Kleins, as RK said they fit much easier.


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Mackie said:


> Today I was crimping some wires and my boss came and looked over my shoulder and nearly had a heart attack because of the crimper I was using. I think he's nuts (as Speedy Pete already pointed out before). Here's the scenario:
> 
> I was using:
> 
> ...


Mackie,

The Klein crimper you were using is best suited to your application. That 'sheet metal' style crimper your were given by the boss is barely suited for use by a 'U-Haul trailer electrician'. It is incredulous that a 'real' contractor would even have a 'sheet metal' style crimper in his arsenal, but then that is one of the reasons those lo-ballers beat us 'fair guys' at bid time. IMO, most contractors do not give a care about this subject, a craftsman should care.

You really cannot beat a Full-Cycle Ratcheting Crimper as linked by RK. A little spendy, but they cannot be surpassed. Some of the better Full-Cycle Ratcheting Crimpers tightly close the 'entry funnel' insulation (the yellow part on the lug that you depicted) around the conductor's insulation, affording a degree of strain relief to the lug termination. A craftsman can leave every termination with the confidence that his Full-Cycle Ratcheting Crimper termination is robust.

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## Mackie (Mar 16, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> I bought a moderately expensive terminal kit from Ideal that had hundreds of those terminals,...... and included that same tool. :whistling2:
> 
> 
> Same kit as this Panduit kit:


Bwahahahahahahahah....!!!! :laughing:

Thanx, Speedy, you made my day!

---

I was looking into a ratcheting set with changeable dies b/c we use so many different types of terminals at the shop, but, I have an interview with a real electrician next week, soooo....

:thumbsup:

Thanx everyone for the replies!!


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## joeyuk (Feb 27, 2008)

HighWirey said:


> Mackie,
> 
> The Klein crimper you were using is best suited to your application. That 'sheet metal' style crimper your were given by the boss is barely suited for use by a 'U-Haul trailer electrician'. It is incredulous that a 'real' contractor would even have a 'sheet metal' style crimper in his arsenal, but then that is one of the reasons those lo-ballers beat us 'fair guys' at bid time. IMO, most contractors do not give a care about this subject, a craftsman should care.
> 
> ...


 
I still carry that style as well just for cutting machine screws.


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

Actually the best crimper cost a lot more the cheepo Craftsman. I really prefer the ratcheting type and am willing to pay a little more for a tool that is going to perform better. Here is a picture of a Klein and a high end crimper with the crimps that they made. There is a big difference in the quality of the crimp. The ratcheting crimper crimps both the insulated and the stripped parts of the wire, which makes for a better wire termination.
The Klein is fine for keeping in your tool pouch for occasional work but when you need to do a lot of crimps it’s time to dig in the tool bag and get out the ratcheting one.

View attachment 431


View attachment 430


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## joeyuk (Feb 27, 2008)

wow. World of difference John. I'll have to look into getting something like that.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

John said:


> Actually the best crimper cost a lot more the cheepo Craftsman. I really prefer the ratcheting type and am willing to pay a little more for a tool that is going to perform better. Here is a picture of a Klein and a high end crimper with the crimps that they made. There is a big difference in the quality of the crimp. The ratcheting crimper crimps both the insulated and the stripped parts of the wire, which makes for a better wire termination.
> The Klein is fine for keeping in your tool pouch for occasional work but when you need to do a lot of crimps it’s time to dig in the tool bag and get out the ratcheting one.
> 
> View attachment 431
> ...


 
You do know that the Klein T1715 is a twin to the one you refer to as high end?


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

I have a 3M crimper like the Klein T1715. The one on the left in the picture crimps the insulated and the stripped parts of the wire terminal at the same time. Much faster and better quality. :thumbsup: Look at the crimps real closely and you will see the difference.
View attachment 432


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

John said:


> I have a 3M crimper like the Klein T1715. The one on the left in the picture crimps the insulated and the stripped parts of the wire terminal at the same time. Much faster and better quality. :thumbsup: Look at the crimps real closely and you will see the difference.
> View attachment 432


 
I'm not disagreeing with you. I use that type all the time for line voltage loads that could over heat or burn out if they were loose.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I have two of these (Cooper/Xcelite), one with the factory-supplied 14/12/10 crimpers, and another I've replaced the jaws with a set for RG59 & RG6.


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

joeyuk said:


> I still carry that style as well just for cutting machine screws.


So do I. It even cleaves stainless steel screws with relative ease. Just spritz on a little lube ever so often.

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

I must have about 5 or 6 different crimp tools for various brands of connectors.
I think when making connections in the field, it’s also important to make sure the crimper is actually listed by the manufacturer for use with the particular type and brand of connector your using, otherwise the UL listing of the connector may be invalid. Probably not a big deal unless somehow something goes wrong later on or if there is some sort of warranty situation.
I know that since Ideal owns Burndy, some of their smaller connectors and crimp tools are compatible. I think some of the T&B Sta-Kon crimp tools may be too. I think 3M list their own Highland crimp tools for their connectors.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm just jealous because I've never crimped anything.

Haven't bent conduit yet either.


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I'm just jealous because I've never crimped anything.
> Haven't bent conduit yet either.


Well, you have a lifetime of fun ahead . . .

Re: crimping

To beat an almost dead horse here, once you have gained experience, crimping a number 10 _stranded_ conductor with a 'Full-Cycle Ratcheting Crimper' is a satisfying experience, vs using a 'sheet metal type' crimper on the same size conductor. You can 'feel' the satisfaction of the crimp. 

Best Wishes In The Trade.

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

John said:


> I have a 3M crimper like the Klein T1715. The one on the left in the picture crimps the insulated and the stripped parts of the wire terminal at the same time. Much faster and better quality. :thumbsup: Look at the crimps real closely and you will see the difference.
> View attachment 432


Bought one identical to your Sargent, almost 40 years ago (it was made by Hollingsworth then). Now it seems that several vendors have gobbled up their patent over the years. I used Mr Hollingsworth last week, still flawlessly crimping.

BTW, I paid five bux in 1970, new, at a junkshop - those days are gone forever . . .

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## Mackie (Mar 16, 2008)

OK, to summarize, the sheet metal type crimpers are the absolute bottom of the bucket, plier type are mid-grade and ratcheting with interchangeable dies are ideal (no pun intended) - and to demand sheet metal over the other types for the example terminal originally shown is ludicrous. Correct?


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Mackie said:


> OK, to summarize, the sheet metal type crimpers are the absolute bottom of the bucket, plier type are mid-grade and ratcheting with interchangeable dies are ideal (no pun intended) - and to demand sheet metal over the other types for the example terminal originally shown is ludicrous. Correct?


You dot it, man.

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

Mackie said:


> OK, to summarize, the sheet metal type crimpers are the absolute bottom of the bucket, plier type are mid-grade and ratcheting with interchangeable dies are ideal (no pun intended) - and to demand sheet metal over the other types for the example terminal originally shown is ludicrous. Correct?


 
I think the Ideal Crimpmaster will easily give you the most bang for your buck. 
If you can’t find it locally, you can order the 700 Series crimp tool frame and assorted interchangeable dies from Jensen. It is the Ideal Crimpmaster, just rebranded as Jensen.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

KayJay said:


> I think the Ideal Crimpmaster will easily give you the most bang for your buck.
> If you can’t find it locally, you can order the 700 Series crimp tool frame and assorted interchangeable dies from Jensen. It is the Ideal Crimpmaster, just rebranded as Jensen.


 
How do you know it's not Jensen rebranded Ideal???


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> How do you know it's not Jensen rebranded Ideal???


 
:laughing: Ahh, yes,.. the Ying and the Yang thing!!

I noticed that Jensen's 700 Series part numbers were oddly the same as Ideal's part numbers. 
I then used my Ninja "mind powers" when I ordered some additional crimper dies, to read the parts bag and invoice which said "Ideal" on them. :laughing:


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

KayJay said:


> :laughing: Ahh, yes,.. the Ying and the Yang thing!!
> 
> I noticed that Jensen's 700 Series part numbers were oddly the same as Ideal's part numbers.
> I then used my Ninja "mind powers" when I ordered some additional crimper dies, to read the parts bag and invoice which said "Ideal" on them. :laughing:


 
I see several tools that are similar because they are made by the same supplier for a few different brands. 
It's like a gallon of white paint, most of the time the only difference is the label.


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> I see several tools that are similar because they are made by the same supplier for a few different brands.
> It's like a gallon of white paint, most of the time the only difference is the label.


Yes, and also very often, the price. 
The same product marketed under one companies name is sometimes quite a bit more than under another companies name. 
Just as an example, the T&B “Comfort Crimp” terminal crimp tool at $249.00, is almost twice the price of the Xcelite “Ergo Pro” crimp tool with the insulated terminal dies, even though they are both the same tool. The only difference is the name stamped on them and the color of the handles.

Just like in one of the other posts here, one guy posted a picture of a Craftsman tool and then three or four other guys posted about how it looked just like their other brand of tool. Just the same tool being marketed through other manufactures as their own product. The prices were also all over the place depending on what brand name was associated with it. I don’t think I even want to take a guess at what the guy who bought his from Snap-On paid. :whistling2:


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## Mackie (Mar 16, 2008)

KayJay said:


> Yes, and also very often, the price.
> I don’t think I even want to take a guess at what the guy who bought his from Snap-On paid. :whistling2:


http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=797&store=snapon-store

If they had a ratcheting crimper w/ dies, it would probably cost you your first born son to own it!


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Mackie said:


> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=797&store=snapon-store
> If they had a ratcheting crimper w/ dies, it would probably cost you your first born son to own it!


Yes,
But always a clik behind AMP TYCOs pricing structure 

Stick with AMP - I am reasonably sure about their quality.

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

John said:


> I have a 3M crimper like the Klein T1715. The one on the left in the picture crimps the insulated and the stripped parts of the wire terminal at the same time. Much faster and better quality. :thumbsup: Look at the crimps real closely and you will see the difference.
> View attachment 432


Great,

Looking is fine, but you not be completely satisfied until you 'feeeel' the difference during that 'crimping stroke'.

Now if we can just get you gentlemen to stop using those forked terminals, the world would at peace!

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

HighWirey said:


> Great,
> 
> Looking is fine, but you not be completely satisfied until you 'feeeel' the difference during that 'crimping stroke'.
> 
> ...


 
What do you have against fork terminals, they save pulling out the screws and loosing them.


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