# layoff unemployment



## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

csgonz said:


> I just got laid off from a long job. company is getting more work, but in the mean while.
> 
> Do I apply for UnEmployment for sitting at home or do I need to be laid off waiting at the hall to collect?
> 
> ...


Not trying to be rude, but if you are in the IBEW don't you have someone at the office more qualified to answer your questions rather than people that have no idea of your situation?


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

4SQUARE said:


> Not trying to be rude, but if you are in the IBEW don't you have someone at the office more qualified to answer your questions rather than people that have no idea of your situation?


 I would guess there are a lot of Union guys on here that could answer his question.


That being said, Ive always wondered is there different UI for the union guys as opposed to the non union?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

csgonz said:


> I just got laid off from a long job. company is getting more work, but in the mean while.
> 
> Do I apply for UnEmployment for sitting at home or do I need to be laid off waiting at the hall to collect?
> 
> ...


You have to spend all of your money and sell your house truck and all of your clothing too, then you can sign up......:laughing:



















Just google your state and unemployment they should have a web site and just sign up.

Welcome to the forum.....:thumbsup:


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Up here I think you have to be looking for work before you can collect. If your Union has work I'm sure you have to go to work. But do check.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

csgonz said:


> I just got laid off from a long job. company is getting more work, but in the mean while.
> 
> Do I apply for UnEmployment for sitting at home or do I need to be laid off waiting at the hall to collect?
> 
> ...


Are you really laid off?

I ask that because if you are really laid off then go back to the hall, get on the list and get another job. In the mean time you can collect unemployment.

On the other hand, if the company asked to stop working for a while until they get more work, then you are not laid off, you are on vacation. You cannot collect unemployment while on vacation.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Awg-Dawg said:


> That being said, Ive always wondered is there different UI for the union guys as opposed to the non union?


In New Jersey if you are a member of a hiring hall you do not need to look for work while collecting unemployment ( the hiring hall is doing that for you ). Otherwise everything else is the same.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Union worker applies for UI just like everyone else with the exception they don't have to look for work just be on the book. Some locals have a supplement in addition to your state unemployment check with the BA


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## csgonz (Jan 26, 2008)

eejack said:


> Are you really laid off?
> 
> I ask that because if you are really laid off then go back to the hall, get on the list and get another job. In the mean time you can collect unemployment.
> 
> On the other hand, if the company asked to stop working for a while until they get more work, then you are not laid off, you are on vacation. You cannot collect unemployment while on vacation.


Yea 

not going to the hall.
waiting till more work comes with same electrical contractor

So quess that mean No U.I right??


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

eejack said:


> In New Jersey if you are a member of a hiring hall you do not need to look for work while collecting unemployment ( the hiring hall is doing that for you ). Otherwise everything else is the same.


 Looking for work(at least in Ohio) is the part that sucks.

I "think" you have to call at least 2 contractors a week and document it.

Thanks for the explanation.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

csgonz said:


> Yea
> 
> not going to the hall.
> waiting till more work comes with same electrical contractor
> ...


Pretty much because according to the state, you are still working.

You realize the point of the union is to find work for you when one contractor is slow. Perhaps there is work down your hall and instead of being penniless until the contractor feels like bringing you back you can sign up and get a job.

I recommend you find a union member from your local you can trust, who does not work for this company and ask them for advice and guidance.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

The local here limits the amount of time you can sit at home before you have to sign the book. Guys were sitting home drawing unemployment and not signing the book when things picked up they just went back to work for the contractor when all the other members sat on the bench.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

eejack said:


> ...
> On the other hand, if the company asked to stop working for a while until they get more work, then you are not laid off, you are on vacation. You cannot collect unemployment while on vacation.


While that is what the hall wants, that is not what the law requires in all states. In Illinois you can collect without signing the book as long as your employer has give you a firm return to work date.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I think if you are doing the furlough thing, you should apply for UI as soon as possible.
If it's more than two week, you might need it.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> While that is what the hall wants, that is not what the law requires in all states. In Illinois you can collect without signing the book as long as your employer has give you a firm return to work date.


Perhaps, but then you need to look for work. You cannot rely upon the hiring hall exemption ( since you are not looking for work via the hiring hall ). I am not certain about other states but in NJ you cannot collect unemployment without seeking employment.

The issue with the hall is separate. The hall does not want you breaking the rules of the referral system ( 'vacationing' and collecting unemployment is against the referral rules ), nor does the hall want the contractors purposefully avoiding the referral system.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

eejack said:


> On the other hand, if the company asked to stop working for a while until they get more work, then you are not laid off, you are on vacation. You cannot collect unemployment while on vacation.


 
What does that mean?

Do you get paid while you are on "vacation"


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

rewire said:


> The local here limits the amount of time you can sit at home before you have to sign the book. Guys were sitting home drawing unemployment and not signing the book when things picked up they just went back to work for the contractor when all the other members sat on the bench.


I'm not sure if I follow. I would think if someone was drawing unemployment and not putting themselves into a queue for possible work all they would be doing would be leaving an open slot for someone who wanted to work. :001_huh:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Awg-Dawg said:


> What does that mean?
> 
> Do you get paid while you are on "vacation"


Some union companies ask their employees to take time off and not resign down the hall so that when work picks up they can get those same guys back.

They don't get paid nor are the eligible for unemployment because technically they are still working ( not laid off ) so if they are not drawing a paycheck nor signed up done the hall they must be on 'vacation'.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> I'm not sure if I follow. I would think if someone was drawing unemployment and not putting themselves into a queue for possible work all they would be doing would be leaving an open slot for someone who wanted to work. :001_huh:


What they are doing is avoiding the referral system altogether. They don't resign down the hall so no other contractor has an opportunity to hire them and they block other union members the opportunity to work for that contractor. 

If times are bad then they are not allowing other folks the opportunity to work ( since that contractor won't go to the hall, they will only call in their 'vacationing' workers off of vacation ).

And you cannot get unemployment for being on vacation, so either the worker is earning nothing so the contractor can keep them without paying them or they are breaking the law by vacationing and collecting unemployment.

No good contractor would put their workers in such a position.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

eejack said:


> Some union companies ask their employees to take time off and not resign down the hall so that when work picks up they can get those same guys back.
> 
> They don't get paid nor are the eligible for unemployment because technically they are still working ( not laid off ) so if they are not drawing a paycheck nor signed up done the hall they must be on 'vacation'.


What would be the benefit of putting yourself out of work (not signing the book) and not collecting unemployment at the request of an electrical contractor?


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

eejack said:


> What they are doing is avoiding the referral system altogether. They don't resign down the hall so no other contractor has an opportunity to hire them and they block other union members the opportunity to work for that contractor.


How can a person not signing the book while their contractor has no work for them be blocking someone else from working for that contractor?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> What would be the benefit of putting yourself out of work (not signing the book) and not collecting unemployment at the request of an electrical contractor?


You would avoid going to the end of the out of work list so your wait to go back to work would be shorter. Some folks believe that is worth the lost money or the risk of being caught for unemployment fraud.



Dillinger4 said:


> How can a person not signing the book while their contractor has no work for them be blocking someone else from working for that contractor?


When the contractor needs workers instead of taking them off the list, they just bring in their 'vacationing' workers. So the poor slob who has been waiting for work needs to wait for all the vacationers to go back to work before the contractor calls the hall...


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Awg-Dawg said:


> I would guess there are a lot of Union guys on here that could answer his question.
> 
> 
> That being said, Ive always wondered is there different UI for the union guys as opposed to the non union?


Here in Washington, if you are not on the out of work list, then you are considered a member "not in good standing" and will be denied unemployment. You can, however, be placed on "standby". This usually requires your HR department to contact the state for verification. The other option is do to the required job searches and keep a log in case you get an audited. Our contract also states that if a contactor does not work you at least 8hrs in a 21 day period, then they must lay you off. On the other hand, we have a 60 day recall by name. If you take a lay off, the contractor has the option of calling you back within a 60 day period.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

eejack said:


> You would avoid going to the end of the out of work list so your wait to go back to work would be shorter. Some folks believe that is worth the lost money or the risk of being caught for unemployment fraud.


Ah ok I get it. The list would probably move slower than the contractor could get work.



eejack said:


> When the contractor needs workers instead of taking them off the list, they just bring in their 'vacationing' workers. So the poor slob who has been waiting for work needs to wait for all the vacationers to go back to work before the contractor calls the hall.


I wonder what would happen if someone were to blow one of these contractors in? Would the union drop the contractor?


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

eejack said:


> You would avoid going to the end of the out of work list so your wait to go back to work would be shorter. Some folks believe that is worth the lost money or the risk of being caught for unemployment fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> When the contractor needs workers instead of taking them off the list, they just bring in their 'vacationing' workers. So the poor slob who has been waiting for work needs to wait for all the vacationers to go back to work before the contractor calls the hall...





sparky970 said:


> Here in Washington, if you are not on the out of work list, then you are considered a member "not in good standing" and will be denied unemployment. You can, however, be placed on "standby". This usually requires your HR department to contact the state for verification. The other option is do to the required job searches and keep a log in case you get an audited. Our contract also states that if a contactor does not work you at least 8hrs in a 21 day period, then they must lay you off. On the other hand, we have a 60 day recall by name. If you take a lay off, the contractor has the option of calling you back within a 60 day period.


 Thanks for the explanation.

But, I gotta tell ya, Im more now confused than I was before.:laughing:

That's a lot to keep track of.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Awg-Dawg I think we should of been taking notes. :laughing:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

eejack said:


> Perhaps, but then you need to look for work. You cannot rely upon the hiring hall exemption ( since you are not looking for work via the hiring hall )....


With a return to work date there is no requirement to look for work while you are collecting UI....at least in Illinois that is the case.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

eejack said:


> Are you really laid off?
> 
> I ask that because if you are really laid off then go back to the hall, get on the list and get another job. In the mean time you can collect unemployment.
> 
> On the other hand, if the company asked to stop working for a while until they get more work, then you are not laid off, you are on vacation. You cannot collect unemployment while on vacation.


If the company asked him to stop working for a while, that's a layoff. ROWd. Reduction of workforce. Eligible for unemployment. He should have a layoff slip. If not, report back to the company because you're not laid off no matter what you were "told."


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

IslandGuy said:


> If the company asked him to stop working for a while, that's a layoff. ROWd. Reduction of workforce. Eligible for unemployment. He should have a layoff slip. If not, report back to the company because you're not laid off no matter what you were "told."


Actually sounds like a furlough to me. Each local will have different rules regarding it. Ours gives us up to six weeks.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

dawgs said:


> Actually sounds like a furlough to me. Each local will have different rules regarding it. Ours gives us up to six weeks.


We have a 10 week furlough, but you still get a layoff slip and collect unemployment. You have to take a 6-week shot and then 2 2-week shots. Or a contractor can furlough you 10 weeks straight. Instead of going to the hall, you simply go home, and have a return to work date. In the meantime, when you're furloughed the hall sends a furlough replacement in your absence. A contractor and it's employees must schedule their furloughs such that when "joe's" ends, "anthony's" begins. This keeps the replacement journeyman employed throughout the entire time a contractor has men on furlough. When all of the shops manpower is furloughed, the replacement gets laid off, or kept while another shop rocket bites the dust... :whistling2:

The rules are tweaked a bit for smaller shops, and the rules are bent a bit for both large and small shops when the situation warrants. General foremen can delay their furloughs for no more than 2 years if they're running a big project with less than 4 sub-foremen or something like that.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

IslandGuy said:


> We have a 10 week furlough, but you still get a layoff slip and collect unemployment..


Most locals do not have a furlough system, I think just NY and Chicago. In many locals if the contractor asks you to stop working and doesn't lay you off that is a vacation.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

eejack said:


> Most locals do not have a furlough system, I think just NY and Chicago. In many locals if the *contractor asks you to stop working* and doesn't lay you off that is a vacation.


...its not a vacation, its a layoff due to lack of work, failure to claim unemployment insurance does not alter the circumstances. Its book jumping masked as a "vacation", plain and simple!


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## Shimy (May 24, 2015)

What if you sign the book, and make the re-call every month. To keep your name on the books. Now let's say you never show up Monday-Friday to get a job that has been posted. Could you still draw UI?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Shimy said:


> What if you sign the book, and make the re-call every month. To keep your name on the books. Now let's say you never show up Monday-Friday to get a job that has been posted. Could you still draw UI?


Actually YES, until Unemployment finds out. You are supposed to be actively looking for work.


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## Shimy (May 24, 2015)

Can you sign more then one book at a time? In this case you would not be able to be at each local every day?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Shimy said:


> Can you sign more then one book at a time? In this case you would not be able to be at each local every day?


Sounds like just an excuse to play the system.


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## Shimy (May 24, 2015)

I have drawn unemployment before. It is easy you can set it up yourself. However, I was wondering if there were extra steps to get unemployment as a IBEW member?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Shimy said:


> I have drawn unemployment before. It is easy you can set it up yourself. However, I was wondering if there were extra steps to get unemployment as a IBEW member?


No extra steps I know of.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Shimy said:


> I have drawn unemployment before. It is easy you can set it up yourself. However, I was wondering if there were extra steps to get unemployment as a IBEW member?


No, there is no extra steps. Also, as far as showing up at the hall, that wouldn't effect it. There is no such thing as showing up (shaping) at my hall. Being on the list ready to work is all that is required for unemployment. If anything, being on more lists would look even better.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

csgonz said:


> Yea
> 
> not going to the hall.
> waiting till more work comes with same electrical contractor
> ...


I realize this is a really old post but........That's not how it works. You can't just sit around waiting for the contractor to "give you a call". They put out job calls to the hall, and the hall dispatches whoever's on the book, if you're not on the book, you're not going to get dispatched. A contractor can't just "call back" someone, it has to go through dispatch.
The first thing to do when you get a layoff is go sign the book, then go to the EDD website and apply for UI.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

joebanana said:


> I realize this is a really old post but........That's not how it works. You can't just sit around waiting for the contractor to "give you a call". They put out job calls to the hall, and the hall dispatches whoever's on the book, if you're not on the book, you're not going to get dispatched. A contractor can't just "call back" someone, it has to go through dispatch.
> The first thing to do when you get a layoff is go sign the book, then go to the EDD website and apply for UI.


This isn't entirely true.

My hall has a 6 month "journeyman recall" in which they can bring you back. Even before that, they were always able to call any foreman that they wanted.

In addition to that, what the OP was talking about was not a layoff, it was just taking a break while there was no work.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Jrzy said:


> This isn't entirely true.
> 
> My hall has a 6 month "journeyman recall" in which they can bring you back. Even before that, they were always able to call any foreman that they wanted.
> 
> In addition to that, what the OP was talking about was not a layoff, it was just taking a break while there was no work.


"Just taking a break" is a layoff. They can't expect you to sit at home with no income, some people still have mortgage payments and living expenses to cover. Foreman call outs are typical, "6 month jman recalls" aren't. Who can afford to wait for any amount of time with no income? That's what dispatch is for, so you can work for someone who has work, while your waiting for the one who doesn't have any work. Read your bylaws.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

joebanana said:


> "Just taking a break" is a layoff. They can't expect you to sit at home with no income, some people still have mortgage payments and living expenses to cover. Foreman call outs are typical, "6 month jman recalls" aren't. Who can afford to wait for any amount of time with no income? That's what dispatch is for, so you can work for someone who has work, while your waiting for the one who doesn't have any work. Read your bylaws.


Do you not have a 'good ol boy' factor out west ?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Do you not have a 'good ol boy' factor out west ?


Does that pay your mortgage while you're on "a break"?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Does that pay your mortgage while you're on "a break"?


No, but it let's you get a short term lay off for things like hunting season, vacations, etc and get called back skipping the line so to speak.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

joebanana said:


> "Just taking a break" is a layoff.


 No, it's not. A layoff is something official that requires documentation. Taking a break is taking a break.



> They can't expect you to sit at home with no income, some people still have mortgage payments and living expenses to cover.


 They can expect whatever they want, it's up to the employee to weigh the consequences of each action. In most cases it is better for the employee to take the vacation and go back with the company, than to go sign the list and sit for months and possibly get sent out to a 1 month job just to sit again.

Being a company guy is a great thing, it's why some of worked steady for our careers.



> Foreman call outs are typical, "6 month jman recalls" aren't. Who can afford to wait for any amount of time with no income?


 The journeyman recall is when you are laid off and sitting on the list.



> That's what dispatch is for, so you can work for someone who has work, while your waiting for the one who doesn't have any work. Read your bylaws.


I know my bylaws, I also know how the real world is.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Jrzy said:


> No, it's not. A layoff is something official that requires documentation. Taking a break is taking a break.
> 
> They can expect whatever they want, it's up to the employee to weigh the consequences of each action. In most cases it is better for the employee to take the vacation and go back with the company, than to go sign the list and sit for months and possibly get sent out to a 1 month job just to sit again.
> 
> ...


Apparently you don't.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

joebanana said:


> Apparently you don't.


lol, ok then...


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> No, but it let's you get a short term lay off for things like hunting season, vacations, etc and get called back skipping the line so to speak.


We call that "not taking any calls" but it's on our terms, not the signatories terms. And we retain our place on the book. When an employer doesn't have any work, we call that a layoff,(and so do they) and can collect UI.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

joebanana said:


> We call that "not taking any calls" but it's on our terms, not the signatories terms. And we retain our place on the book. When an employer doesn't have any work, we call that a layoff,(and so do they) and can collect UI.


Not exactly what I am referring to. This is more an old game that occurs when a good ol boy needs a week or so for something.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Not exactly what I am referring to. This is more an old game that occurs when a good ol boy needs a week or so for something.


Okay, I get what you're sayin, I think. Out here inside wiremen don't get "permanent jobs". Long term employment is usually no more than a couple of years, depending on the project. Calls are most often a couple of weeks to a couple of months. Even if the contractor has upcoming projects, we get a layoff so we can collect UI. If they have concurrent projects most times they'll move a person around until the new project begins, but it's just as easy for them to put out a new call.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Okay, I get what you're sayin, I think. Out here inside wiremen don't get "permanent jobs". Long term employment is usually no more than a couple of years, depending on the project. Calls are most often a couple of weeks to a couple of months. Even if the contractor has upcoming projects, we get a layoff so we can collect UI. If they have concurrent projects most times they'll move a person around until the new project begins, but it's just as easy for them to put out a new call.


I was never into taking time off for any reason til I got divorced and had a second job that had a lot of weekend hours available. I was lucky to have a boss that let me take off most Friday's for years so I could put three days into the other job weekly. I've seen some guys that seemed to have the ability to take off 3 days and work 3 days a week, I really think of them as the good ol boys.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

csgonz said:


> Yea
> 
> not going to the hall.
> waiting till more work comes with same electrical contractor
> ...


Talk to your ba. Hovering is frowned upon in the union. You are company if you do that. Brotherhood, then company. Otherwise we beg..


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

eejack said:


> Are you really laid off?
> 
> I ask that because if you are really laid off then go back to the hall, get on the list and get another job. In the mean time you can collect unemployment.
> 
> On the other hand, if the company asked to stop working for a while until they get more work, then you are not laid off, you are on vacation. You cannot collect unemployment while on vacation.


It's called furlough or standby.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

eejack said:


> You would avoid going to the end of the out of work list so your wait to go back to work would be shorter. Some folks believe that is worth the lost money or the risk of being caught for unemployment fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> When the contractor needs workers instead of taking them off the list, they just bring in their 'vacationing' workers. So the poor slob who has been waiting for work needs to wait for all the vacationers to go back to work before the contractor calls the hall...


Some locals have Journeyman recall,


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Shimy, should have started a new post.

This OP was started a little over 2.1/4 years ago.

This is one of the few problems is letting these posts never expire....


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## Morales5712 (Oct 13, 2018)

its been officially one month since I been laid off.This Friday I got a job interview hoping to get hire im a 34 yr old apprentice with a little over a year experience , this company looks like a good career builder wish me luck sparkies


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Another zombie thread


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Morales5712 said:


> its been officially one month since I been laid off.This Friday I got a job interview hoping to get hire im a 34 yr old apprentice with a little over a year experience , this company looks like a good career builder wish me luck sparkies


Good luck!


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## Morales5712 (Oct 13, 2018)

being unemployed sucks , but this is part of the trade.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

CADPoint said:


> Shimy, should have started a new post.
> 
> This OP was started a little over 2.1/4 years ago.
> 
> This is one of the few problems is letting these posts never expire....


double zombie


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

In the bag!


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