# long shift



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

I know this has been talked about before, but....
Is there legally any limit to shift duration? Can an employee legally leave after 8 hours with no reprecutions? 
Can an employer insist your job depends on staying on site until a project is finished in excess of 16 hours?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> I know this has been talked about before, but....
> Is there legally any limit to shift duration? Can an employee legally leave after 8 hours with no reprecutions?
> Can an employer insist your job depends on staying on site until a project is finished in excess of 16 hours?


:laughing:

That sounds like my old boss.

He would beep us On Friday after noon so we would have to call the shop then he would say "you want to work a few hours tonight?"

And he'd pull the same crap,"This job has to be done before we leave, which meant working all the way through Sunday night


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

NacBooster29 said:


> I know this has been talked about before, but.... Is there legally any limit to shift duration? Can an employee legally leave after 8 hours with no reprecutions? Can an employer insist your job depends on staying on site until a project is finished in excess of 16 hours?


. Excess of 16 hours sure doesn't sound safe or legal to me ? 16 was the longest I was ever reluctantly willing to do . Personally , I think anything last 12 starts to get dangerous . People start taking shortcuts , because they aren't thinking straight , which is when accidents happen .


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> :laughing: That sounds like my old boss. He would beep us On Friday after noon so we would have to call the shop then he would say "you want to work a few hours tonight?" And he'd pull the same crap,"This job has to be done before we leave, which meant working all the way through Sunday night


. Yeah , I think we all had at least one employer that would do that , lol ! If I had plans , I just didn't answer my phone on Friday afternoons , lol !


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> I know this has been talked about before, but....
> Is there legally any limit to shift duration? Can an employee legally leave after 8 hours with no reprecutions?
> Can an employer insist your job depends on staying on site until a project is finished in excess of 16 hours?



*Massachusetts Mandatory Overtime Laws*


Posted by Tamara A unique feature of the Massachusetts overtime laws is that tipped employees, such as restaurant servers, must be paid one and one-half times the minimum wage, for every hour they work in excess of 40 hours in a single work week. This provision is much better than many other state laws such are Maryland’s, where tipped employees are not entitled to overtime under any circumstances.
*Under the Massachusetts mandatory overtime laws, an employer may legally require an employee to work overtime. An employer may compel an employee to stay beyond their additional shift, or to come in on their usual days off – even Saturdays, Sundays and holidays. There is no requirement that the employer give the employee advanced notice that they will need to work overtime. There is also no limit on the number of hours the employee may be required to work.*
The one stipulation to the Massachusetts mandatory overtime laws is that in most cases, the employee is entitled to overtime pay for any hours in excess of 40 in a single work week. This overtime pay is 1.5 times the employee’s usual hourly rate.
The Massachusetts state overtime laws exempt employees in many occupations from overtime pay. Caddies and newspaper carriers are exempt, as well as outside salespeople. Fishermen, apprentices and interstate truckers are exempt. So are employees of garages, amusement parks, and non-profit summer camps, as well as hospital employees, workers at senior citizen homes and employees of non-profit schools. None of these people must be paid overtime, unless they are covered by a federal overtime law such as the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) or FairPay. 
Some of the salaries and duties in the Massachusetts state overtime provisions seem rooted in an earlier era. For example, janitors with living quarters who earn at least $30 per week, are exempt from overtime. So are executives or executive trainees who earn at least $80 per week. (If this is you, stay home and look for a better job!) Switchboard operators in a public exchange – presumably, those who work for the phone company – are exempt. (Does the phone company even have switchboard operators any more?)
Finally, any employee who is not subject to the state minimum wage, is also not entitled to overtime pay under the Massachusetts mandatory overtime laws.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Cleitis must or wrote the law in Maine...



*Does my employer have to provide me with breaks? *
Employers must give employees the opportunity to take an unpaid rest break of 30 consecutive minutes after 6 hours worked if 3 or more people are on duty. An employee and employer may negotiate for more or less breaks, but both must agree (this should be put in writing). *No coffee, bathroom, or smoking breaks are required. *
:laughing::laughing:


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

longest day I ever worked was 18 hours, Showed up at 6am, j-man said, " we got alot of fixtures to put up for tomorow.. were staying till were done" ..left at midnight lol


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

The fastest way to get me not to work overtime is to tell me I have to. 

Overtime is at my discretion, not my employer's. If I am asked nicely to work overtime and I am available I will usually do it if they really need me. I would prefer they ask everyone else first and use me as a last resort. However if I am told I have to stay late or that I have to work on Saturday, I will always say no. Ask me, don't tell me, it's basic courtesy. I work to live, my job will not run my life.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Well my shop is doing turn overs of a specific retail chain. Specializing in items that cost a dollar. 
They have us go in for 8 pm Sunday night. Then can't leave until were wrapped up. They have been giving us 3 journeymen. With the followig tasks.
- 4 new mc cables for cash wrap feeds. Install 2 3/4" power conduits to junction box and a quad nipples off the j box.
- install 2" sleeve for data at cash wrap to terminate in a pvc j box at floor level. 
Install 8 to 12 freezer, refrigeration circuits in emt, along the back wall. All circuits home runs. 
-Wire secondary cash wraps using old cash wraps power.
-install power poles for display receptacles throughout the store
- demo old cash wraps power and power poles.
-Demo receptacles from old freezer locations.
- wire all quads at cash wraps.
- install sub panel and terminate all circuits into sub panel. 
-add a dedicated quad in break area.
- labeling of all devices
- photos of all devices with meter to verify power. 
Photos of all breakers installed
- panel schedules.
And i will add that all circuits installed are in emt. They have speced locations for every device. 
It's basically 3 days worth of work they need done for them to open on Monday. 
Also on several sites our shop is handling the data portion as well. 
The shop refuses to budge on more man power. They would rather 16 hour shifts and I've heard of guys running into the 22 hour range. 

I told my pm I'm done after 16 , and to have a back up plan. I know I've ruffled some feathers, but 16 hours with one 15 minute break is excessive. 
I just didn't know if there can be legal ramifications...
I really don't care that much if there are. Thesee jobs blow


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> Well my shop is doing turn overs of a specific retail chain. Specializing in items that cost a dollar.
> They have us go in for 8 pm Sunday night. Then can't leave until were wrapped up. They have been giving us 3 journeymen. With the followig tasks.
> - 4 new mc cables for cash wrap feeds. Install 2 3/4" power conduits to junction box and a quad nipples off the j box.
> - install 2" sleeve for data at cash wrap to terminate in a pvc j box at floor level.
> ...


Open your own shop....F----them....


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

That has crossed my mind.
The next job I get will bot be with an ec. 
This trade is a sure fire way to ruin your body, and get used and abused. 
I had a pretty decent offer from Simplex a few years ago. 
However they wouldn't hire me while I was still employed with my shop. As we work with them quite a bit. They didn't want to step on my bosses toes figuratively. 
My next job will be more brain work less back ache!


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

NacBooster29 said:


> The shop refuses to budge on more man power. They would rather 16 hour shifts and I've heard of guys running into the 22 hour range.
> 
> I told my pm I'm done after 16 , and to have a back up plan. I know I've ruffled some feathers, but 16 hours with one 15 minute break is excessive.


I've worked some long days in emergency situations. It sucks, but it happens. However, there is a huge difference between an emergency and a planned job. No way in hell would I work 16 hours on a planned job because the shop refuses to properly man the job. I would tell them to send more help. 10 hours, maybe 12 hours would be my limit. I don't care if the job gets done or not. If they can't man the jobs appropriately they shouldn't be taking them.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

NacBooster29 said:


> That has crossed my mind.
> The next job I get will bot be with an ec.
> This trade is a sure fire way to ruin your body, and get used and abused.
> I had a pretty decent offer from Simplex a few years ago.
> ...


Amen!


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> I've worked some long days in emergency situations. It sucks, but it happens. However, there is a huge difference between an emergency and a planned job. No way in hell would I work 16 hours on a planned job because the shop refuses to properly man the job. I would tell them to send more help. 10 hours, maybe 12 hours would be my limit. I don't care if the job gets done or not. If they can't man the jobs appropriately they shouldn't be taking them.



Yeah, if I was told I had to work 16 hours straight on one job I would quit on the spot. I'm not kidding either. Some guys will do just about anything a company asks but I'm not one of them.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> That has crossed my mind.
> The next job I get will bot be with an ec.
> This trade is a sure fire way to ruin your body, and get used and abused.
> I had a pretty decent offer from Simplex a few years ago.
> ...


Hopefully you'll bag a gig like that, I hear they're good to work for too.:thumbsup:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

NacBooster29 said:


> I know I've ruffled some feathers, but 16 hours with one 15 minute break is excessive.
> I just didn't know if there can be legal ramifications...
> I really don't care that much if there are. Thesee jobs blow


Working that long in MA without a break is illegal and could get your company in serious trouble if someone happened to report that. :whistling2:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

It's 'tarded to ask guys to work those hours for no good reason. Have I done it in emergencies? Yeah. But doing those kinds of hours for any number of day and productivity plummets and mistakes skyrocket.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you never have to work overtime for any private industry employer. you can always leave at any time and you can always get a job somewhere else.

An employer can always replace you at their discretion, they are not stuck with you if you aren't what they are looking for in an employee, or can't perform the job they would like you to do for the pay they would like you to make, which you agreed to when you started.

(this doesn't apply to union labor)


I think that about sums it up ?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

NacBooster29 said:


> I know this has been talked about before, but.... Is there legally any limit to shift duration? Can an employee legally leave after 8 hours with no reprecutions? Can an employer insist your job depends on staying on site until a project is finished in excess of 16 hours?


Unless you have laws on the books stating other wise, yes. Firemen work 24 hr shifts. I worked at a mill that had a 17 hour rule, but they would break it if they had to(not often). No one can tell you to work past what you consider safe. But they don't have to keep you on the payroll either. As long as they are paying according to state and federal laws, they have the say. At that point you have to make a choice.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> :laughing:
> 
> That sounds like my old boss.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, then he'd say, "Overtime is authorized." Then the next week is, "Take off Wednesday and Thursday." So he didn't have to pay overtime.

Sumbitsh.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

EBFD6 said:


> I've worked some long days in emergency situations. It sucks, but it happens. However, there is a huge difference between an emergency and a planned job. No way in hell would I work 16 hours on a planned job because the shop refuses to properly man the job. I would tell them to send more help. 10 hours, maybe 12 hours would be my limit. I don't care if the job gets done or not. If they can't man the jobs appropriately they shouldn't be taking them.


Well said sir. I wouldn't even dream of asking my crew to work 16 hours on a planned job.


FWIW....the longest I have done was 22 hrs for an emergency situation. Excavator hooked the main feeders for the hospital closest to me. The generator had to be refueled twice while we excavated, replaced the sections of damaged conduits, replaced the pad mount transformer and repulled and terminated it all. Brutal.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

My old employer would pull the same thing Harry's did but never at noon always about 30 mins. before we left for the day. I was always one of the last asked as they usually knew I would. But there were some times they counted on me and I made plans oh well.
But let me get it straight a 15 minute break uuuummm no! The shops I worked at we had two 15s and at least a 30 minute lunch on planned stuff. In emergency situations we would try to breaks as well. Also generally if we had to bust out an emergency they would generally spring for a nice dinner or something at a later date as a thank you.

I do think that they are taking advantage of you though and understaffing jobs like that with fast paced deadlines is a recipe for someone to be hurt or worse.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Overtime is expected everyday here. You have to ask to get off on time


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Overtime is expected everyday here. You have to ask to get off on time


Was this made known when you took the job, or did it evolve over time from them not hiring enough manpower, etc.

The reason I ask is because some companies, like Brian John's for example, overtime is just a necessary way of life due to the unpredictability and often times emergency nature of the work they do. These companies usually make it known up front that overtime will be necessary often and it is expected that the employee be available to work it. I personally wouldn't take a job like this for that reason, but some guys love it.

On the other hand if you work for a standard electrical contractor and got hired with the expectation of working 40 hrs with maybe some occasional ot, and now find yourself working ot consistently due to their lack of manpower, I would be pretty pissed off about that and would definitely be looking for a new job.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rollie73 said:


> Well said sir. I wouldn't even dream of asking my crew to work 16 hours on a planned job.
> 
> 
> FWIW....the longest I have done was 22 hrs for an emergency situation. Excavator hooked the main feeders for the hospital closest to me. The generator had to be refueled twice while we excavated, replaced the sections of damaged conduits, replaced the pad mount transformer and repulled and terminated it all. Brutal.


He would do it at noon on Friday and if you did not call in the PM would magically forget your pay check at the shop, otherwise he would bring them out to all the ongoing jobs, so then you would have to make it to the shop in time to get your check otherwise you would have to wait till Monday after work and again you would have to get to the shop in time.

There was no direct deposit back in those days and if you did not pick up your check by Monday he would put them in the snail mail and they would never show up until Friday....Whata prick.....:no::laughing:


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

EBFD6 said:


> Was this made known when you took the job, or did it evolve over time from them not hiring enough manpower, etc.
> 
> .


Job description was worded "occasional overtime required"

I hired on when there was a building boom going on. My crew was 12 guys and then the company went on a hiring spree making the crew size 35 guys. So initially the company kept up on the manpower. Over the last 15 years my crew went from 35 guys to 6. 2 of us retired 2 years ago and the company never replaced us. Last I heard, my old crew was absorbed into another crew for a total of 10 guys.

The only saving grace all those years was a clause in our contract stating "Mandatory Overtime for January thru May, September thru December maxed at 12 hours. June, July, August maxed at 15 hours". After those hours, OT was voluntary. Later contracts lower the mandatory hours to 9 and 12 respectively.


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## doublejelectric (Jan 23, 2013)

I come from the industrial world, lots of shut downs and turn arounds, many many many 12 plus hour jobs. I worked for a company for two years that was 7 12s with scattered overtime. Longest I ever worked was 32 hrs straight starting up a dog food plant. Ugh, those were the days.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

doublejelectric said:


> I come from the industrial world, lots of shut downs and turn arounds, many many many 12 plus hour jobs. I worked for a company for two years that was 7 12s with scattered overtime. Longest I ever worked was 32 hrs straight starting up a dog food plant. Ugh, those were the days.


I can't see any benefit to working hours like that. An emergency or an occasional shutdown is one thing. But for 2 years? At some point having a life outside of work is more important than money.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

The main problem as I see it. The entire shift can be cut down by adding labor. 
I've been on some long ass shifts, during emergency situations. Not by design. 
I've already made it known at 16 hours I'm leaving weather the job is done or not. They could plan a relief shift, or break it up into 2 days. 
Because the company we work for wants it done in one day, does not make it my problem. 
And I will add if I were to be terminated for leaving I would have a new job within 2 days. But I doubt that will happen.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Company policy cuts us off at 16hrs. The paper mills I work at will come and find you if you are badged in for more than 16hrs, too. Then, you have to be off the clock for 8hrs.


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## doublejelectric (Jan 23, 2013)

Yeah, lots of companies have finally started implementing policies, realizing nothing gets done after 12 hours. And your right, social life is affected. Money isn't everything, I did it because back then, I was job scared, I thought if I didn't do it, another guy would. Let me tell you, after seeing a few fatalities over the years, my thoughts on work vs home, totally different


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## ACA (Sep 3, 2013)

Long shifts are pretty common for us during shutdowns and change overs, but I make sure we take proper breaks to wind down and keep our heads straight. It's just not safe nor productive to go go go all the time.


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## MaxH (Mar 12, 2014)

It depends on you & your boss and of course what your work demands.If your work needs to be finished within limited time then you have do overtime otherwise you are all free after your scheduled time.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

In "this particular case" the work is scheduled way in advanced. They decision is made to limit man power and make us work insane amount of hours. This is not a shutdown. This is not an emergency. 
But when they arrive in the morning they want to bring the store on line and start to open as soon as possible.
Yet they refuse us asking for additional man power...
I have made it known I'm out after 16. Schedule more guys or a relief shift. I don't get anything but a paycheck after its all said and done. 
And a huge pain in the ass during. 
I would equate it to working for a house flipper.


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## RobRoy (Aug 6, 2009)

I often work 12-16 hour days, depending on how many things have blown up that week. I always expect to work late, and if I am home by 4pm, then I am happy. I have had a few days, where I have worked in excess of 27 hours. In those hours, several breaks were taken, and plenty of water is consumed. It is a mind game, and I love staying focused for that long. There is something about that feeling of accomplishment after a long shift sometimes, that I really enjoy. Yes I am crazy, and have only done it a few times, but they know I am capable of getting things done. The most important thing to remember when working long hours, is to pay attention, and have a good team who looks out for each other.


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## Boesk (Mar 6, 2010)

We routinely work 10-12 hour days and have in an emergency worked longer. What i tell my crew is that if they work anything more than 13 that i don't want them back in without 8 hours rest. Not including the drive home. My manager has, in the past worked the crew 16 hrs and wanted them back to the site 4 hours later, and most of them live 30-45 minutes away.


Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


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