# All AFCI's tripping under load in new construction



## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Hello, this is my first post so be patient with me. I just journeyed out 6 months ago after going through the IBEW local 48 apprenticeship. Most of my experience is commercial/industrial. I have no experience troubleshooting AFCI breakers.

I installed a new 125 Amp sub-panel (one of the Homeline panels that accommodates "plug on neutral" AFCI breakers in an old back addition on my house. It is fed from a new 200 Amp metered main. The neutral and ground are not bonded at the sub panel. I redid all of the existing wiring in the addition and added new circuits for the addition as well (bath, kitchen, laundry, water heater, mini-split, etc). I installed CAFCI breakers to all 120V 15amp and 20 amp circuits except the designated bathroom circuit. The Kitchen circuit breakers (micro, appliance, disposal, eating nook) and a circuit that includes exterior lighting and receptacle also have GFCI protection. All AFCI breakers test fine using the test button.

I am still in the rough stage of remodeling the back so I installed a single receptacle on 4 of the circuits and a single switch controlling one LED light on each of two circuits for my convenience while finishing the project. I verified that all other hot leads on those circuits is safed off. The receptacles test fine using a plug tester.

The problem is, any load other than my tester, even a small LED work light plugged into one of the receptacles or operating a switch controlling the one LED immediately trips that breaker. The only breaker on in the panel is the one I am testing.

Out of curiosity I installed an additional temporary receptacle to the bathroom circuit which has a standard 20 amp breaker. It tests fine and doesn't trip under heavy load.

So my question is, where to start troubleshooting and what am I looking for?

A couple of other notes that may or may not have bearing: 1) House itself was built in 1970 and has complete **** wiring that has been tampered with many times by total idiots. I have done nothing to it yet other than replacing the FPE panel with a new panel fed off the new metered main. 2) The feeders for the meter from the utility are direct burial and weren't in the greatest shape when PGE was hooking up my new meter base. 3) I have a 9 KW grid-tied solar array I installed last year that feeds a 40amp breaker in the metered main.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

So the tripping circuits are only on one at a time?

They hold as long as nothing is plugged into them that carries a load?

All the wiring you have installed AFCI's on is new wiring that you personally installed, or is it some of the old wiring too?

You have something crossed up somewhere on those circuits maybe, gonna have to check your splices, and ensure that no grounds and neutrals are touching, that no neutrals are shared between circuits, etc.

Has to be in the make-up of your wiring. 

Have a Supco 500?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I agree that it must be miswired. If it’s happening at all circuits, then there must be a blatant issue. Disconnect all the neutrals and grounds and test for continuity between them. Test between the neutral and ground of each circuit and also test all the neutrals to each other.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Wexcellent said:


> I am still in the rough stage of remodeling the back so I installed a single receptacle on 4 of the circuits and a single switch controlling one LED light on each of two circuits for my convenience while finishing the project. I verified that all other hot leads on those circuits is safed off. The receptacles test fine using a plug tester.


Read this 5 times and i still can not picture in my mind what you are saying. Are you using more than 1 hot per neutral ("I verified that all other hot leads on those circuits is safed off")


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Switched said:


> So the tripping circuits are only on one at a time?
> 
> * Yes, all breakers in the sub panel are off. I turn them on one at a time and test them and they trip immediately.*
> 
> ...


*No I don't. I could test resistance with my Fluke 175 but what is the point with new romex where I can see the un-interupted runs?*


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

gpop said:


> Read this 5 times and i still can not picture in my mind what you are saying. Are you using more than 1 hot per neutral ("I verified that all other hot leads on those circuits is safed off")


* Sorry for the confusion. For example in a kitchen appliance circuit with only two outlets I installed a receptacle to one outlet and made sure in the other outlet that the pigtail is safed off and the neutral and ground are isolated from each other. Is that clearer?
*


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

HackWork said:


> I agree that it must be miswired. If it’s happening at all circuits, then there must be a blatant issue. Disconnect all the neutrals and grounds and test for continuity between them. Test between the neutral and ground of each circuit and also test all the neutrals to each other.


So you are saying that there is an individual problem in each of the separate six circuits I tested? It is new romex, leaving the panel in separate easily distinguishable home runs so why would I test for continuity between neutrals? The only place they meet is at the panel. And again, it is new romex, pulled in clean runs, straight, not twisted, undamaged.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Wexcellent said:


> * Sorry for the confusion. For example in a kitchen appliance circuit with only two outlets I installed a receptacle to one outlet and made sure in the other outlet that the pigtail is safed off and the neutral and ground are isolated from each other. Is that clearer?
> *


This makes zero sense. What is the difference between a receptacle and an outlet?
You are not using terminology people here will understand. 
Would you feel better here https://www.diychatroom.com/f18/

Please check and see. This is going nowhere.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> So you are saying that there is an individual problem in each of the separate six circuits I tested? It is new romex, leaving the panel in separate easily distinguishable home runs so why would I test for continuity between neutrals? The only place they meet is at the panel. And again, it is new romex, pulled in clean runs, straight, not twisted, undamaged.


You keep telling us that you’re not going to test for continuity, so what more do you want from us? We’ve told you where to start troubleshooting.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> This makes zero sense. What is the difference between a receptacle and an outlet?
> You are not using terminology people here will understand.
> Would you feel better here https://www.diychatroom.com/f18/
> 
> Please check and see. This is going nowhere.


He also called the neutral a negative, and he’s refusing to do the test that every other electrician would do first.


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## craigdj87 (Oct 11, 2016)

You May have Neutrals from two or more circuits tied together in a junction box, switch box or receptacle box. For example: Are the Neutrals from the appliance circuit tied together with the Neutrals from the lighting circuit?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I’m confused.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

most probably landed the neutrals on the bar rather than on the breakers screws or the neutral isnt bonded at the other end so its floating (shame to test it with a meter). He replied to me in bold so im off to my safe space where people respect my input.

see you in the controversial section where people are warm and friendly


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

gpop said:


> *most probably landed the neutrals on the bar rather than on the breakers screws* or the neutral isnt bonded at the other end so its floating (shame to test it with a meter). He replied to me in bold so im off to my safe space where people respect my input.
> 
> see you in the controversial section where people are warm and friendly


 I have done that with GFCI breaker more times than I care to admit LOL


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Tripping under load tells you the bond is touching neutral or there are neutrals from separate circuits touching each other. It can’t be anything else. If the problem is so widespread, the common denominator is the panel. I’m guessing there is wonky wiring at the panel.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Well, I have to say two things in response to all this. First, some of you guys aren't helpful. Hackwork, never called a neutral a negative and, must be thinking of someone else and what sense is there in checking continuity on romex you can see that is in perfect condition when multiple runs of it are having the same issue? John Valdes, really? Perhaps you need to re-familiarize yourself with the NEC if you don't know the difference instead of demeaning me - or perhaps you would do better moderating a DIY chatroom (go ahead, ban me).

Second, while I may be smart, I am also an idiot. Didn't have any familiarity with these breakers and it's been over 5 years since I touched an AFCI or GFCI breaker so like an idiot I connected the neutral to the neutral bar instead of the breaker. I was going breakneck speed and figured it out when I stopped long enough to think about it. I figured it out myself but GPOP get's the prize for being most helpful and identifying the right solution. I replied in bold to distinguish my answer from your question, not because I was shouting. Sorry it came across wrong.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Not to pick nits, but his outlet/receptacle terminology is correct. 

Technically, an outlet is a place where electricity can be utilized or controlled. For example, the box a luminaire is hung from and fed from is an outlet. Likewise, the device box that you’ve installed a toggle switch in is technically an outlet. 

NEC article 100, Outlet:

A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.



A receptacle is a specific device on a yoke that is installed in an outlet (device box) where utilization equipment with a cord end can be plugged in to utilize electricity (like a microwave or dryer or range with a cord end).

NEC article 100, Receptacle:

A contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug, or for the direct connection of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the corresponding contact device. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke.



It’s common for laypersons to call a receptacle an outlet (sometimes they’re also called a plug, even though it would be the opposite of a plug), and this is common enough that folks forget that they’re not actually the same thing. And in fact if you look up the definition on Google, most of your hits will tell you (erroneously as per the NEC and therefore per electricians) that the two words are interchangeable. They might be for the DIYer, but not for us. 

Two cents. Meow!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

> it is romex, pretty hard to do, no negative/neutral touching-


 That was you who said that. 

For some reason you’re still arguing about checking continuity. It doesn’t matter whether you could see the outside of the cable, checking continuity takes five minutes and would rule out many different possibilities. It’s a starting point that you should not be arguing with.


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## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

Wexcellent said:


> Well, I have to say two things in response to all this. First, some of you guys aren't helpful. Hackwork, never called a neutral a negative and, must be thinking of someone else and what sense is there in checking continuity on romex you can see that is in perfect condition when multiple runs of it are having the same issue? John Valdes, really? Perhaps you need to re-familiarize yourself with the NEC if you don't know the difference instead of demeaning me - or perhaps you would do better moderating a DIY chatroom (go ahead, ban me).


C'mon now, no need to lie.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

HackWork said:


> That was you who said that.
> 
> For some reason you’re still arguing about checking continuity. It doesn’t matter whether you could see the outside of the cable, checking continuity takes five minutes and would rule out many different possibilities. It’s a starting point that you should not be arguing with.


You are right, I am wrong. I apparently did say it, missed it when I scanned back through. Amazing how quick you were to jump on that one slip and use it to jump on the "you don't belong here - go to a DIY chatroom" bandwagon (when everywhere else I used the correct terminology). Nice welcome!

Yep, still arguing about checking continuity. Every run of romex would have to have been faulty from the factory for it to make sense and be causing the problem in each run. And the romex is from three different rolls. So I knew that continuity was not the problem without having to spend far more than 5 minutes to unland a bunch of stuff in a full panel.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Awww give him a break lads. 

Most of us have been to that very dark place where something real simple is kicking your arse and the simpler it is the more wound up you get. It gets to that point where you stop thinking and have a little temper tantrum. 

He might also have a wife like mine winding him up.

"do you think we should call a electrician"

"are you sure you now what you are doing"

"is it meant to do that"

"what if we get smaller bulbs"

"maybe its running backwards"


Got to give him credit for at least coming back and telling us what the problem was and how he fixed it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> You are right, I am wrong. I apparently did say it, missed it when I scanned back through. Amazing how quick you were to jump on that one slip and use it to jump on the "you don't belong here - go to a DIY chatroom" bandwagon (when everywhere else I used the correct terminology). Nice welcome!
> 
> Yep, still arguing about checking continuity. Every run of romex would have to have been faulty from the factory for it to make sense and be causing the problem in each run. And the romex is from three different rolls. So I knew that continuity was not the problem without having to spend far more than 5 minutes to unland a bunch of stuff in a full panel.


You are the only person blaming the cable, not me. As I said from the beginning, there was one blatant issue (which I suspected was you miswiring something), and the real cause ended up being a mistake. Checking continuity between all the neutrals and grounds is the first thing you do, it would take you five minutes.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

gpop said:


> most probably landed the neutrals on the bar rather than on the breakers screws or the neutral isnt bonded at the other end so its floating (shame to test it with a meter). He replied to me in bold so im off to my safe space where people respect my input.
> 
> see you in the controversial section where people are warm and friendly


He pops the question -- you've popped the answer. :biggrin:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

And now macmikeman enters the ring, throws off his glitter shiny cape to the roar of the crowds, and pats the round counter girl on the ass, then says: 

*Your fault.* You used Homeline afci breakers. You should have put in a crappy Eaton panel, and then bought Eaton Afci breakers, cause I believe they don't really have any gfi component in them anymore due to continuous complaining on my part online, and returns , returns, returns. So your miswiring misdeeds such as neutrals touching grounds and stuff show up with your Homeline afci's but they go right on by with an Eaton Afci. There is talk by some that the Eaton Afci doesn't have any afci protection built in either, but it does trip when you push the test button. That there is worth the 46 dollars you betcha. You'll pass inspection every time, trip free. What a miracle device! 


If this is an overhead , I'd be calling the poco to come out and re-do their splices cause something's tricking your afci breakers into thinking you have an arc, when it's actually up there on the pole.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Wonky wiring at the panel. Do I win a prize?


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## WorksOutOfaVan (Jun 20, 2017)

On the bright side, after this you'll probably never forget how to wire up an Afci breaker. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I make dumb mistakes too. Spent two hours today convincing myself I missed a home run when it was staring me in the face.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I knew there was a reason I love Eaton BR series AFCI's


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WorksOutOfaVan said:


> On the bright side, after this you'll probably never forget how to wire up an Afci breaker.


That's what I said after each of the 10 times that I did it :biggrin::vs_laugh:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Great post,,,

Anyone have any more popcorn?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wexcellent said:


> Well, I have to say two things in response to all this. First, some of you guys aren't helpful. Hackwork, never called a neutral a negative and, must be thinking of someone else and what sense is there in checking continuity on romex you can see that is in perfect condition when multiple runs of it are having the same issue? John Valdes, really? Perhaps you need to re-familiarize yourself with the NEC if you don't know the difference instead of demeaning me - or perhaps you would do better moderating a DIY chatroom (go ahead, ban me).


Heck, I would megger the NM. And when you tested the NM you would at least eliminate one possible cause. We megger all new installations.


Often troubleshooting is not about finding the problem but eliminating issues that might cause a specific problem until you arrive at the solution.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> Heck I would megger the NM. And when you tested the NM you would find the issue.
> 
> We megger all new installations.


The reason I mentioned doing a continuity test instead of meggering is because A) I assumed he did not have a megger and B) the issue was such a blatant miswiring that a continuity tester would be enough. 

For it to be happening on every circuit, it wasn't just overdriven staples or a bare ground conductor too close to the neutral screw. It had to be solid connections.



> Every time I see a new member post a statement like this it is because they start off arrogant and end up eating their words.


 If the OP is really an IBEW member in Philly, then he can take a little harmless "_Are you even an electrician_" ribbing.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

He didn’t need a megger, he just needed to read the instructions (except guys only read instructions after it’s effed up).


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The reason I mentioned doing a continuity test instead of meggering is because A) I assumed he did not have a megger and B) the issue was such a blatant miswiring that a continuity tester would be enough.
> 
> For it to be happening on every circuit, it wasn't just overdriven staples or a bare ground conductor too close to the neutral screw. It had to be solid connections.


Yeah, we get it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HackWork said:


> The reason I mentioned doing a continuity test instead of meggering is because A) I assumed he did not have a megger and B) the issue was such a blatant miswiring that a continuity tester would be enough.
> 
> 
> 
> If the OP is really an IBEW member in Philly, then he can take a little harmless "_Are you even an electrician_" ribbing.


I mention megger because I carry one in my tool bag as part of normal tools. I probably would have used my DMM, but megger made me sound more important than you.

Why do young new members come here to ask a question when they are offered solutions based on how experienced members would narrow the problem down they get cocky and all bent out of shape.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

brian john said:


> I mention megger because I carry one in my tool bag as part of normal tools. I probably would have used my DMM, but megger made me sound more important than you.
> 
> Why do young new members come here to ask a question when they are offered solutions based on how experienced members would narrow the problem down they get cocky and all bent out of shape.


Because everybody here is an arrogant sonomobitch except you and me, Brian, and sometimes I wonder about you .


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Wexcellent said:


> You are right, I am wrong. I apparently did say it, missed it when I scanned back through. Amazing how quick you were to jump on that one slip and use it to jump on the "you don't belong here - go to a DIY chatroom" bandwagon (when everywhere else I used the correct terminology). Nice welcome!
> 
> Yep, still arguing about checking continuity. Every run of romex would have to have been faulty from the factory for it to make sense and be causing the problem in each run. And the romex is from three different rolls. So I knew that continuity was not the problem without having to spend far more than 5 minutes to unland a bunch of stuff in a full panel.


The continuity check at the panel was to make sure you didn't have a ground touching a neutral at a receptacle, and to make sure you didn't pigtail neutrals together from different circuits, there hotrod. It's the blatant stuff that those of us who have worked with AFCIs before know to check, because we have screwed it up at some point, and know how AFCIs work. If you bothered to give that a few minutes thought instead of turning into a butt-hurt billy, it could have saved you time. Turns out you made a different stupid mistake, which we have also all done, but whatever, internet people are mean.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> The continuity check at the panel was to make sure you didn't have a ground touching a neutral at a receptacle, and to make sure you didn't pigtail neutrals together from different circuits, there hotrod. It's the blatant stuff that those of us who have worked with AFCIs before know to check, because we have screwed it up at some point, and know how AFCIs work. If you bothered to give that a few minutes thought instead of turning into a butt-hurt billy, it could have saved you time. Turns out you made a different stupid mistake, which we have also all done, but whatever, *internet people are mean.*


I'm not mean, I am caring. It's tough love. :smile:


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I don't know what your talking about, I have never made a mistake.

The drill bit drilled through those new wood floors, not me. It may have also drilled through that 6-3 NM cable, but it could have been a rat too!:wink:

The sawzall got cocky and bull rushed into cutting that conduit, I told him to pull the wires at the LB first so he didn't cut them. Nope, he wouldn't listen and then I had to install a couple of boxes and splice wires.

That 2x6 runner in the attic decided to move, it wasn't me putting my foot where it shouldn't have been. I blame it for taking out the dining room ceiling.

Nope, can't recall a mistake I made. :biggrin:


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Go on and on about continuity and the checks that you have to do first if there is a problem with AFCI's (GoingCommando, Hackwork) OR, stop and think about my actual situation for just one second.

All the breakers were tripping when tested under load. Not just one. They were all new circuits and breakers. No circuits shared a box. Obviously, the branch wiring was not the problem, that is just common sense, not arrogance, something some of the expert opinions weren't applying to the situation. Interesting to watch the experts get butthurt when their advice isn't followed, especially when their advice is based on THEM not thinking carefully about the problem as described.

Hackwork, think about it instead of going on and on about it. My mistake was that all the neutrals were landed on the neutral bar, which in this panel is underneath the AFCI breakers. How are you going to check continuity on that in 5 minutes bud? Remove each breaker and unland the neutral to test for continuity and reinstall it in 5 minutes under all the other wires? You are a superhero. And for what, when every new run you just installed, some with very few outlets, has a problem? Do you really think you would do that or would you step back and think, okay, there is some universal problem here I am not seeing? You and I both know the answer to that question.

Not understanding how AFCI's work I thought that perhaps there was some problem relating to the whole system - like the nasty wiring in the main house or the solar array, spikes or feedback on the neutral or something causing issues - I had no idea and didn't know where to start, just knew that the branch wiring wasn't where the issue was. It took no time once I actually understood what AFCI's were designed to do and how I had actually wired them.

Call me arrogant, butthurt, whatever. I gotta remember journeymen are people too and many of them in my experience aren't all that smart, are pretty full of themselves, like to be the expert, and aren't much good at listening - I guess I am actually describing people in general, myself included at times. I got it figured out but unfortunately not before making a fool of myself here and all the bull that came with that from a few of you.

My impression of this forum based on this one experience: Some really helpful people here mixed with some guys who are here more for their ego than to actually be helpful.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

brian john said:


> Why do young new members come here to ask a question when they are offered solutions based on how experienced members would narrow the problem down they get cocky and all bent out of shape.


I don't know why young new members do that.

I am 53 and I have enough common sense to know that the problem was universal and not related to the branch circuit wiring I had just installed. I could blindly follow the advice of people who obviously weren't listening to what my actual problem was or I could go on and keep trying to solve it. Sure glad I didn't waste the time to unland every neutral from the neutral bar under the AFCI breakers (which was the problem in the first place) in order to test the circuit.

Why do old old members not listen more carefully and then get butt hurt if their advice isn't followed and their ego stroked?


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

gpop said:


> most probably landed the neutrals on the bar rather than on the breakers screws or the neutral isnt bonded at the other end so its floating (shame to test it with a meter). He replied to me in bold so im off to my safe space where people respect my input.
> 
> see you in the controversial section where people are warm and friendly



I feel your pain... Those micro-aggressions are the pits! :vs_laugh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> Hackwork





Wexcellent said:


> Hackwork


As far as I was concerned, this was over. But you keep calling me out by name. So we can continue on for as long as you'd like.

You keep saying this:


Wexcellent said:


> I am 53 and I have enough common sense to know that the problem was universal and *not related to the branch circuit wiring* I had just installed.





Wexcellent said:


> Obviously, *the branch wiring was not the problem*, that is just common sense, not arrogance,


But it is incorrect. The branch circuit wiring WAS the problem. That's what the issue ended up being, you miswiring the branch circuit neutrals. We all knew that there was a miswiring of the neutrals/grounds because we have experience with resi troubleshooting and AFCI's. 

And the best course of action in troubleshooting an issue based on what you told us is to either ring out the circuit neutrals and grounds or megger them if you have one. It might not always find the problem first, but it is still the starting point, as every has told you.

Instead of reading what we have said, you just keep ranting and raving. I never said that it was a problem with the cable. The fact that you were having an issue with all of the circuits tells us that the issue was with the way all the branch circuits were wired, which we now know is true.

It's not a big deal, no one here cares about their ego other than you. You clearly have something to prove, but you are proving the opposite.


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## WorksOutOfaVan (Jun 20, 2017)

99cents said:


> He didn’t need a megger, he just needed to read the instructions (except guys only read instructions after it’s effed up).



Me no read nuttin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

HackWork said:


> It's not a big deal, no one here cares about their ego other than you.


I absolutely love this, it is classic! I am afraid there is no arguing with someone who says that now, is there? Nice "no win" shut down and complete failure at introspection on your part.

Fine, no need to spend more time going back and forth, I am just thankful I didn't waste all the time it would have taken to follow your infallible advice (removing breakers and unlanding every neutral in order to test each branch circuit) when the solution was so simple.

Go ahead, you get the last shot.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> I absolutely love this, it is classic! I am afraid there is no arguing with someone who says that now, is there? Nice "no win" shut down and complete failure at introspection on your part.
> 
> Fine, no need to spend more time going back and forth, I am just thankful I didn't waste all the time it would have taken to follow your infallible advice (removing breakers and unlanding every neutral in order to test each branch circuit) when the solution was so simple.
> 
> Go ahead, you get the last shot.











:vs_wave:


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Wexcellent said:


> I am just thankful I didn't waste all the time it would have taken to follow your infallible advice (removing breakers and unlanding every neutral in order to test each branch circuit


Which is what you ended up needing to do to solve the problem anyway, so what does it matter? It's nobody else's fault that you didn't understand the operation of something you installed.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Not what was said*



Wexcellent said:


> I am just thankful I didn't waste all the time it would have taken to follow your infallible advice (removing breakers and unlanding every neutral in order to test each branch circuit) when the solution was so simple.
> 
> Go ahead, you get the last shot.


If you would of just needed to looked at 1 circuit and test, you would of found it. No need to unwire everything to troubleshoot.

By the way welcome to ET

Cowboy


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

just the cowboy said:


> If you would of just needed to looked at 1 circuit and test, you would of found it. No need to unwire everything to troubleshoot.
> 
> By the way welcome to ET
> 
> Cowboy


Yup. You start by disconnecting the neutrals and grounds of 2 circuits that are having the issue and testing continuity from ground to neutral and from neutral to neutral.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

HackWork said:


> I agree that it must be miswired. If it’s happening at all circuits, then there must be a blatant issue. Disconnect all the neutrals and grounds and test for continuity between them. Test between the neutral and ground of each circuit and also test all the neutrals to each other.


So now you are saying I only needed to test two? I did pull made up boxes on two separate circuits with complete visible romex to visually verify no continuity between conductors and to ground at the terminations just to satisfy the questions I was being asked. Thankfully that was enough for some people on the board to be helpful instead of derogatory in their remarks.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> So now you are saying I only needed to test two?


 Not just now, I would have said it anytime you were receptive to advice on how to do it. But you have been fighting since the start.



> I did pull made up boxes on two separate circuits with complete visible romex to visually verify no continuity between conductors and to ground


 You can't "visually verify continuity". Are you even an electrician? 


Oh god, here it comes... :biggrin:


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Yup. You start by disconnecting the neutrals and grounds of 2 circuits that are having the issue and testing continuity from ground to neutral and from neutral to neutral.


By the way, thanks for finally admitting that the advice you gave me is not what you would have done yourself.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> By the way, thanks for finally admitting that the advice you gave me is not what you would have done yourself.


I never admitted that.

I told you to do what I would have done, checked for continuity. Just like every other electrician would have done.

I know your ego is hurt, but you are not helping yourself. Who do you think you are impressing? Give it up already, stop digging your grave deeper and deeper.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Give me second, I need to grab my nilla wafers. This thread is getting interesting.

We got two chatty Cathy's going at it?

Anyone know what the over/under is on this?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Helmut said:


> Give me second, I need to grab my nilla wafers. This thread is getting interesting.
> 
> We got two chatty Cathy's going at it?
> 
> Anyone know what the over/under is on this?


I gotta admit, I just don't have the steam for this one. I'm too bored with it.

Maybe we can get the Leviton panel thing going again??? :smile:


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I gotta admit, I just don't have the steam for this one. I'm too bored with it.
> 
> Maybe we can get the Leviton panel thing going again??? :smile:


If he had used the Leviton panel, would it have helped or hindered his mistake?:vs_laugh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> If he had used the Leviton panel, would it have helped or hindered his mistake?:vs_laugh:


I am not sure... But it would have *definitely* brought the price down of the panel and the AFCI breakers!


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

HackWork said:


> I never admitted that.
> 
> I told you to do what I would have done, checked for continuity. Just like every other electrician would have done.
> 
> I know your ego is hurt, but you are not helping yourself. Who do you think you are impressing? Give it up already, stop digging your grave deeper and deeper.


Admit it or not, you said what you said. From the get go you told me to check every circuit and now you are saying that you would have just checked two and that would have been sufficient to find the problem. Again, thankful I didn't follow your onerous original advice. :biggrin:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> Admit it or not, you said what you said. From the get go you told me to check every circuit and now you are saying that you would have just checked two and that would have been sufficient to find the problem. Again, thankful I didn't follow your onerous original advice. :biggrin:


No, I did not say that checking two would be sufficient, I said that is where you start.

This is my exact quote:


> Yup. *You start by* disconnecting the neutrals and grounds of 2 circuits that are having the issue and testing continuity from ground to neutral and from neutral to neutral.


So how much more are you going to embarrass yourself today? I told you to stop digging your own grave, but here you are trying to pick apart every little thing to find one tiny little thread to prove how smart you are and how everyone else's advice to check for continuity was wrong. It's not working.

Goodbye


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I'm imagining the Aussie Guy narrating this thread, and it's hysterical.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Wexcellent said:


> Admit it or not, you said what you said. From the get go you told me to check every circuit and now you are saying that you would have just checked two and that would have been sufficient to find the problem. Again, thankful I didn't follow your onerous original advice. :biggrin:


Not sure about Hax, as I don't care to go back and read through all the posts, but I think I told you to check all your splices. In fact, I am pretty sure I did.

Just one of those things, I automatically assumed that the breaker/panel connections would have been done properly, and that a splice somewhere must have been done incorrectly. 

Quit getting so bent out of shape, basic troubleshooting almost always starts at the panel. Basic troubleshooting would have solved the issue almost immediately.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Yup. You start by disconnecting the neutrals and grounds of 2 circuits that are having the issue and testing continuity from ground to neutral and from neutral to neutral.


Sorry, this was not your original advice. Your original advice was pretty clear:



HackWork said:


> Disconnect all the neutrals and grounds and test for continuity between them. Test between the neutral and ground of each circuit and also test all the neutrals to each other.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

And, I might add, you faulted me numerous times for not following it as you spelled it out.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Wexcellent said:


> Sorry, this was not your original advice. Your original advice was pretty clear:


Uh... Yeah, pretty clear.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> Sorry, this was not your original advice. Your original advice was pretty clear:


 Yes, my original advice was based off of the assumption that this was a little sub panel for an addition that might have had a handful of AFCI circuits tripping. 

Since in actuality it is such a monstrous panel with so many dozens of AFCI circuits in it, starting off with only a couple circuits is what a trained and experienced electrician would do. We could have spoken about that like normal people if you were at all receptive of the idea, but you knew better from the start and weren't willing to discuss anything.



Wexcellent said:


> And, I might add, you faulted me numerous times for not following it as you spelled it out.


No, I faulted you for continuing to argue how a continuity test was not a good idea. I never once said to do what I said exactly how I spelled it out. My posts were clearly talking about doing a continuity test, while your posts were talking about some craziness of being able to see the cable and visually check for continuity :vs_laugh:

You can't be THIS stupid, so I have to assume that I am getting trolled. I am bowing out, you win and I give you the last word...


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If all or most of the breakers were tripping, the obvious first thing to look at is the panel. And I mean “look”. The breaker has both a neutral and hot connection. A minute of staring at it could have revealed miswiring at the panel. No need to pull out a meter.

My first rule of troubleshooting is to look and think. Then I pull out the tools and meter. It sounds like the OP never got past the look and think stage. No need to. As far as I’m concerned he did it right and good on him.

I wish to welcome him to the forum.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Yes, my original advice was based off of the assumption that this was a little sub panel for an addition that might have had a handful of AFCI circuits tripping.
> 
> Since in actuality it is such a monstrous panel with so many dozens of AFCI circuits in it, starting off with only a couple circuits is what a trained and experienced electrician would do. We could have spoken about that like normal people if you were at all receptive of the idea, but you knew better from the start and weren't willing to discuss anything.
> 
> ...


Settle down, Hack. Maybe get your meds checked.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Someone said early on to ohm between the neutrals to see if they are connected to each other.

My first thought would have been of course they are as i landed them on the same bar

then i would have said something like " that stupid....oh i see what ive done wrong".


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Out of respect I would typically privately message this content but being such a new member I am not allowed to until I have 20 posts under my belt.



HackWork said:


> Yes, my original advice was based off of the assumption that this was a little sub panel for an addition that might have had a handful of AFCI circuits tripping.
> 
> Since in actuality it is such a monstrous panel with so many dozens of AFCI circuits in it, starting off with only a couple circuits is what a trained and experienced electrician would do. We could have spoken about that like normal people if you were at all receptive of the idea, but you knew better from the start and weren't willing to discuss anything.
> 
> ...


Dostoyevsky said, "Sarcasm is the last refuge of those with no real argument." along with other much less kind things about sarcasm.

If you read my original post I made it quite clear that there were numerous AFCI circuits, specifically mentioning 6 and leaving out the smoke circuit living area and bedroom, which one could assume means 3 more.

You can tell me all you want that if you were dealing with a type of breaker that was unique and different than any you'd ever dealt with and had multiple runs of new cable you just ran and that you can see and that are isolated from each other except at the panel and that in no way appear damaged, and when you can clearly see the downstream branch terminations and they are isolated from each other and when all the runs are tripping, that you would start by unlanding every termination in the panel and checking each branch circuit for continuity, and I won't believe you because that would just be stupid and I am sure you are smarter than that. You can tell me that if I don't unland two of the breakers out of all the ones tripping and get my tester out and check those two circuits but instead visually check the ends of the conductors on those circuits in which I can see the entire run of new wire, that I am being remiss and unprofessional in my troubleshooting, and I will say you are entitled to your opinion - whatever would work for you in the exact same situation. You can also start immediately refusing to clarify and being a condescending, rude, demeaning prick and depending on my mood you may get a reaction. Occasionally I have little tolerance for such BS, I guess you caught me on a day when I was already under a lot of stress.

I came here for help and you in particular were not only not helpful, but quickly chose to be oppositional instead. I answered the suggestions and questions directed my way by you and others in a way I thought was appropriate and respectful given what I knew of my own abilities and the actual situation I was trying to describe. That especially you but also some others moved so quickly to belittling and demeaning talk is to your own discredit, whether you can see it or not. Fortunately, John Valdes, the moderator who chimed in, had the wisdom, kindness and dare I say humility to privately message me and help me understand where he was coming from when he made his snarky remark and I shot back. And in so doing he extended a warm welcome to me which I was very grateful for.

I won't pretend to know what your issues are (though by nature I am tempted to guess what some of them are) but for whatever reason you chose from the time of my initial response to you to be disagreeable and contemptible towards me. You personally made this an unpleasant experience, though to my shame I did enjoy needling you at the end and having you accuse me again and again of having an ego problem (ever heard of the parable of the plank and speck?). Though ego is a hard thing to self-evaluate introspectively, I would say it is not an ego problem for me so much as it is that I really want to live in a world where people are nice and respectful, kind of a core value for me which is why I am ashamed of some of my remarks on this thread and strongly dislike letting myself get embroiled in such nonsense. It is certainly not what I came for and I typically do not participate.

Being new to the forum I have no idea if this is how you usually behave. Obviously you spend a lot of time here based on your number of posts and join date. Hopefully you treat others more respectfully. I also hope that if I visit again and we encounter each other that our interaction can be more courteous and respectful.

Sincerely wishing you the best.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Sorry, being unfamiliar with posting in this forum some of my comments are bracketed within the quote of your post.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

:sleep1:


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

gpop said:


> Someone said early on to ohm between the neutrals to see if they are connected to each other.
> 
> My first thought would have been of course they are as i landed them on the same bar
> 
> then i would have said something like " that stupid....oh i see what ive done wrong".


Yeah, my problem is that I didn't take the time to understand the operating principal behind the AFCI breaker. I was well aware all the neutrals were landed together and shared continuity at the panel. I just didn't slow down long enough to think it through or look at the directions. I even saw the extra screw (for the neutral) on the breaker and remember thinking something like "strange, must be for if there is no plug on neutral bar". My bad. Shame for bugging everybody and causing such a conflagration. In my panicked imagination I thought there must really be some hard to find ghost current from the house or solar array or something causing the problem, something hard to find and beyond my limited knowledge and troubleshooting capability.

Trust me, was a real head slapper when I realized what I'd done and that I'd publicly made a post about it


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Wexcellent said:


> Yeah, my problem is that I didn't take the time to understand the operating principal behind the AFCI breaker. I was well aware all the neutrals were landed together and shared continuity at the panel. I just didn't slow down long enough to think it through or look at the directions. I even saw the extra screw (for the neutral) on the breaker and remember thinking something like "strange, must be for if there is no plug on neutral bar". My bad. Shame for bugging everybody and causing such a conflagration. In my panicked imagination I thought there must really be some hard to find ghost current from the house or solar array or something causing the problem, something hard to find and beyond my limited knowledge and troubleshooting capability.
> 
> Trust me, was a real head slapper when I realized what I'd done and that I'd publicly made a post about it


Your not an idiot for what you did, many posts indicated they have done similar things, I think even Hax posted something about doing it too.

How often is the problem the simplest of solutions, after we spent hours and hours attempting everything under the sun?

The advice given on the forum typically makes assumptions, as it has to because what you think is a good explanation leaves me scratching my head. And what I think makes perfect sense has everyone saying "What the hell is he talking about?".

I made the assumption that the problem was downstream, because I made the assumption that you would have properly made up the panel, I think others advice was the same. 

You seem to like to argue your point, you'll fit in just fine here!:biggrin:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

It's time.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

I like kitty cats.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Switched said:


> I made the assumption that the problem was downstream, because I made the assumption that you would have properly made up the panel, I think others advice was the same.


Yeah, I get that, because that is the issue with AFCI breakers wired correctly at the panel - downstream problems. I guess being here on site and knowing what I had just done I was wanting to move quickly past the assumption that every circuit I had just wired had something wrong with it. I am quite particular about such things, too much so.



Switched said:


> You seem to like to argue your point, you'll fit in just fine here!:biggrin:


Oh come on, is it that obvious? :surprise:


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Keep it going hacks/99 He only needs 2 more posts to unlock his account so he can post pics.

You guys are so helpful in getting new people past that 20 post mark.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Wexcellent said:


> I don't know why young new members do that.
> 
> I am 53 and I have enough common sense to know that the problem was universal and not related to the branch circuit wiring I had just installed. I could blindly follow the advice of people who obviously weren't listening to what my actual problem was or I could go on and keep trying to solve it. Sure glad I didn't waste the time to unland every neutral from the neutral bar under the AFCI breakers (which was the problem in the first place) in order to test the circuit.
> 
> Why do old old members not listen more carefully and then get butt hurt if their advice isn't followed and their ego stroked?


53,,, assuming you worked as an electrician the whole time, which could be a bad assumption on my part, you should know that a breaker with a coiled white wire sticking out of it's ass is going to need to be wired up just like those old style gfi circuit breakers you used to have to use in place of the later invented gfi receptacle outlets. Even old commercial guys needed to provide gfi protection sometimes for stuff like bathroom outlets in hi-rise concrete apartment buildings or for any outdoor receptacle outlets, which populate most commercial buildings.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> 53,,, assuming you worked as an electrician the whole time, which could be a bad assumption on my part, you should know that a breaker with a coiled white wire sticking out of it's ass is going to need to be wired up just like those old style gfi circuit breakers you used to have to use in place of the later invented gfi receptacle outlets. Even old commercial guys needed to provide gfi protection sometimes for stuff like bathroom outlets in hi-rise concrete apartment buildings or for any outdoor receptacle outlets, which populate most commercial buildings.



Is there a coiled wire on his AFCI? From his 1st post:


> I installed a new 125 Amp sub-panel (one of the Homeline panels that accommodates "plug on neutral"


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> Which is what you ended up needing to do to solve the problem anyway, so what does it matter? It's nobody else's fault that you didn't understand the operation of something you installed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Now, don't be throwing logic at this :vs_whistle:

:biggrin:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I am extremely concerned that @HackWork has accidentally bumped his head and has now tangled up with this @Wexcellent sock puppet he forgot he created, and since neither he nor the sock puppet are programmed to ever give up, we'll never be able to separate them. Mods, please look into this, we may need some kind of bot programmed to make them agree or the forum could sink into this infinite loop and never emerge. In the meantime I'll do what I can to soothe them.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dumb things I have done:

Drilled a 4” hole through a bamboo floor.
Fried the board on a furnace.
Fried the board on a water purifier.
Hooked up a sub wrong and watched conductor insulation bubble and burn back.
Fed a customer’s computer 240V (that’s when I found out computers are multi-voltage, thankfully).

Oh yeah, one more: Screwed up the wiring on an AFCI breaker.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Wexcellent said:


> Out of respect I would typically privately message this content but being such a new member I am not allowed to until I have 20 posts under my belt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Courteous and respectful? You've been an egotistical maniac since your 2nd post in your own damn thread asking for help. Sling all the psychologist quotes out you want to, but your social skills are obviously lacking. We all knew you screwed up the wiring in every branch circuit involving an afci breaker. Without pictures all that can be done is to point you in the right direction. Since we are just supposed to assume you are the 2nd coming of Nikola Tesla, we should have known to tell you of your inability to wire AFCI breakers correctly, and then bow down in awe with proper pomp and circumstance that a deity such as yourself could make such a mortal error. 

In other words, apparently in your extensive literature collection, the word humility never graced a single page, and if it appeared, it did not receive a 2nd thought or even a casual reflection. 

In closing, hopefully you never post on this forum again because you are too much of a pompous ass to engage in civil discourse even when asking for help, so, go f*ck yourself.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It’s tough for a new pompous ass to break into the old boys club of pompous asses around here.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Is there a coiled wire on his AFCI? From his 1st post:


I missed that, because I never hooked one of those up, and didn't read the directions included in the OP's first post. .................. :devil3:


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

99cents said:


> Dumb things I have done:
> 
> Drilled a 4” hole through a bamboo floor.
> Fried the board on a furnace.
> ...


Measured once, not twice, and drilled through hardword floors once.

Not gonna lie, it sucked.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

macmikeman said:


> 53,,, assuming you worked as an electrician the whole time, which could be a bad assumption on my part, you should know that a breaker with a coiled white wire sticking out of it's ass is going to need to be wired up just like those old style gfi circuit breakers you used to have to use in place of the later invented gfi receptacle outlets. Even old commercial guys needed to provide gfi protection sometimes for stuff like bathroom outlets in hi-rise concrete apartment buildings or for any outdoor receptacle outlets, which populate most commercial buildings.


Naw, in my original post I explained that I just finished the IBEW apprenticeship this year in Oregon. Before that I had a remodeling business for 20 years and before that I was in the ministry.

I also explained in the original post that these are the newer Homeline "plug on neutral" breakers. The neutral is actually under the breaker, closer to the bus on either side. There is no pigtail, breaker snaps onto the neutral. Honestly the connection seems rather flimsy to me.

The first 500 hrs of my apprenticeship were non-union. Within 3 hrs on my first day they showed me a made up panel as a model and then put me by myself wiring up 100 amp panels in a big apartment complex, which I did for the next couple weeks. I guess they thought I knew what I was doing because I had done a few service swaps for myself/family/friends before, but those didn't require using AFCI breakers. I remember installing a couple of pigtailed AFCI's per apartment panel at that time. Haven't touched one since and had no idea how they functioned, just where they were required.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Going_Commando said:


> Courteous and respectful? You've been an egotistical maniac since your 2nd post in your own damn thread asking for help. Sling all the psychologist quotes out you want to, but your social skills are obviously lacking. We all knew you screwed up the wiring in every branch circuit involving an afci breaker. Without pictures all that can be done is to point you in the right direction. Since we are just supposed to assume you are the 2nd coming of Nikola Tesla, we should have known to tell you of your inability to wire AFCI breakers correctly, and then bow down in awe with proper pomp and circumstance that a deity such as yourself could make such a mortal error.
> 
> In other words, apparently in your extensive literature collection, the word humility never graced a single page, and if it appeared, it did not receive a 2nd thought or even a casual reflection.
> 
> In closing, hopefully you never post on this forum again because you are too much of a pompous ass to engage in civil discourse even when asking for help, so, go f*ck yourself.


Thanks for the constructive criticism, even though it is stated rather negatively. I went back and at least read the first 3 responses I gave on this thread before things headed South, trying to answer peoples questions and follow their advice. I must have really pressed a button somehow to get this kind of reaction out of you. I did apologize to Gpop or someone for using the bold, I am not a forum dweller and wasn't sure how to distinguish my response from the questions. I did question some of the advice, I didn't think I did so disrespectfully, I genuinely didn't see how it took into account the big picture of what I was describing and was asking for clarification - perhaps that came across wrong. Or perhaps it is just highly offensive for people who dwell here to have a newbie not just do what they say unquestioningly?

I am comfortable enough in my own skin that if others, such as yourself, took offense at my questions and got bent out of shape it probably has more to do with their issues than mine. Nonetheless, be assured after this experience that I will continue to try and be sure to find ways to ask questions that don't step on anyone's toes, even though of course that is ultimately impossible to always do.

You have posted twice on this thread. Based on what you have said in those two posts, I am going to lend absolutely no credibility to anything you have to say about civil discourse. I am sure you are probably otherwise a wonderful person, maybe even a loving father and a fun guy to work with. Too bad I made such a bad first impression. We might have been friends.

I know I dashed your hopes of me not posting again, but it was worth it to get to 20 posts! Now I can actually post a picture next time and that will clear it right on up without all this other stuff! Plus I can PM people I have a disagreement with instead of having it degrade into an insult fest.

Sincerely, I hope you have a good day.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wexcellent said:


> I don't know why young new members do that.
> 
> I am 53 and I have enough common sense to know that the problem was universal and not related to the branch circuit wiring I had just installed. I could blindly follow the advice of people who obviously weren't listening to what my actual problem was or I could go on and keep trying to solve it. Sure glad I didn't waste the time to unland every neutral from the neutral bar under the AFCI breakers (which was the problem in the first place) in order to test the circuit.
> 
> Why do old old members not listen more carefully and then get butt hurt if their advice isn't followed and their ego stroked?


I not only listen to posters I attempt to give advice based on my experience to resolve problems. So how about you take a GD chill pill, you have come across as an ass from about your second post. As for your age based on your trouble shooting skills I incorrectly assumed you were a 2nd or 3rd-year apprentice.

We (members here) can only assume a poster's problem on how clear they were in their post, even then without being able to put hands on we are making assumptions that may or may not be correct. But there are some really basic trouble shooting methods which if followed MAY resolve a problem. Generally, there is a procedure to follow from A-Z but often you may have been better off reversing the steps. 

You were given advice and you whined like a baby. Now get to F over yourself.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Going_Commando said:


> The continuity check at the panel was to make sure you didn't have a ground touching a neutral at a receptacle, and to make sure you didn't pigtail neutrals together from different circuits, there hotrod. It's the blatant stuff that those of us who have worked with AFCIs before know to check, because we have screwed it up at some point, and know how AFCIs work. If you bothered to give that a few minutes thought instead of turning into a butt-hurt billy, it could have saved you time. Turns out you made a different stupid mistake, which we have also all done, but whatever, internet people are mean.


Hey, I also wanted to tell you what I appreciated about you in this post. I noticed that one guy insulted me by talking bad about me in front of me (it is so weird what people feel comfortable doing from behind a keyboard that would be incredibly disrespectful in person!) but you at least man up and tell me what you think to my face. I respect that about you.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

brian john said:


> You were given advice and you whined like a baby. Now get to F over yourself.


I dare you to go back and read my first 4 responses before things went South and continue to assert that is a fair analysis of what happened. The only people that started whining were the regulars who didn't like that I asked questions about what they were saying.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Helmut said:


> Measured once, not twice, and drilled through hardword floors once.
> 
> Not gonna lie, it sucked.


It will be awhile before I admit to another mistake on this board! :vs_laugh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm taking bets on who this troll is. Give me a few hours to make up a pool. $50 a square.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wexcellent said:


> It will be awhile before I admit to another mistake on this board! :vs_laugh:


Post away just take responses as they come, you can learn a lot, just take it all in stride. This place and other forums can be a great learner place.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I'm taking bets on who this troll is. Give me a few hours to make up a pool. $50 a square.


93 posts to figure that out?

He had you going, admit it..


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Helmut said:


> 93 posts to figure that out?
> 
> He had you going, admit it..


Oh I admit it, I admitted it in an earlier post. 

I have no problem admitting when I do something stupid, which is often every 8 minutes :vs_laugh:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Here's another stupid mistake that I made:


HackWork said:


> If the OP is really an IBEW member in Philly, then he can take a little harmless "_Are you even an electrician_" ribbing.


I confused Local 48 for Local 98. I thought the OP was from Philly, I didn't realize that he was Portland snowflake. Sorry I triggered you :sad: Please find your nearest safespace.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

99cents said:


> Dumb things I have done:
> 
> Drilled a 4” hole through a bamboo floor.
> Fried the board on a furnace.
> ...


i replaced a gfci receptacle that burnt up. i thought the new one was bad out of box because it wouldn't reset and you could feel the racket in the button. Had i not thrown a hissy fit and thrown the receptacle off the roof all would have been good but i was in a bad mood as i now had to go up and down a lot of stairs so it got slung over the edge of the roof and smash when it hit the floor 80' down. 

Installed another new one and it had the same problem.....:sad:

Turns out that you need to turn the power on to reset a gfci.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

What a gut-buster thread this turned out to be! :vs_laugh:


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

I didn't feel like reading 90 posts

So if not already solved, I think the solar array is inducing current on the neutral and tripping the AFCI's

:devil3:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)




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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

https://youtu.be/EHPLe0VCUvs?t=21


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