# LED light suggestion for workshop



## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

I have a customer who has a workshop/shed where he stores tractors and trucks and also does some work on them in there. It's just a pole barn with nothing finished inside. 

Currently he does not have power in that building and that will be resolved soon. He and his wife claim to be "green" and want LED lighting in there and I think they have the green to make it happen.

It does not have heat and temperatures can get all the way down to -10 here in the winter.

The workshop has a sloped roof that starts at about 18' and stops at about 10'

I would usually recommend 8' two lamp T8's in this type of application but the LED requirement has me scratching my head a little. 

I would like something that is surface mounted and looking at Lithonia's online catalog I'm have a hard time figuring out what might be a good replacement for standard strip lights. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated greatly because I'm a bit lost looking for something that will work well. 

Thank you, John.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

What's the ceiling height? I put in 8 LED low-bay fixtures a month ago and was pretty impressed. They were about 20' aff


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I've put these up in shops. They put out the same light as a T12HO. 8 ft was just over $200 each. 

http://www.columbialighting.com/products/lcl/


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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> What's the ceiling height? I put in 8 LED low-bay fixtures a month ago and was pretty impressed. They were about 20' aff


It slopes from 18 to 10 feet.


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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

Here is a picture of the inside of the building to give you a better idea.


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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

backstay said:


> I've put these up in shops. They put out the same light as a T12HO. 8 ft was just over $200 each.
> 
> http://www.columbialighting.com/products/lcl/


I really like the looks of this light. Do you remember what the Lumens were on the ones you used? Just want to make sure I use enough to do the job properly.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

http://www.columbialighting.com/content/products/specs/specs_files/lcl.pdf

On their site, you'll see four versions each for 4 and 8 foot. 
They rate the lumens at day-one out of box ("initial") with expected life to 20% LED degradation of 50,000 hrs. 

Here's how they compare to normal fluorescent: 
ML 5,000 LM 48W 104LM/W. 
~F32T8/HL RE80 x 2 in a 92% fixture with a regular ballast. 56W. (4800 lm) 

HL 6,100 55 110.
~F32T8HL RE80 x 2. ISH ballast. 74W (6800 lm) 

VL 10,100 96 105. 
F54T5HO WM x 2. 106W (9,200 lm )

For the eight footer, 
2 x 110W T12 HO is in between HL and VL


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Just curious why you'd install 8' T8 fixtures?? I'd install some 4 bulb T5 lowbay fixtures unless they have a lot of money and are willing to part with it......:laughing:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> I've put these up in shops. They put out the same light as a T12HO. 8 ft was just over $200 each.
> 
> http://www.columbialighting.com/products/lcl/


Just a few questions;
What model did you install?
Where did you purchase them?
What was the ceiling height?

Just curious what the FC's would be at eye level if you mounted them
on an 18' ceiling. In an unfinished area like this one, reflectivity would be poor.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

wendon said:


> Just a few questions;
> What model did you install?
> Where did you purchase them?
> What was the ceiling height?
> ...


Cat# HUB LCS840LEDU
Viking Electric(my SH)
16 foot ceiling
FC was 34, I think
11200 LUM 4000k color.

They are end to end and the strings are about 20 ft a part.


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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

wendon said:


> Just curious why you'd install 8' T8 fixtures?? I'd install some 4 bulb T5 lowbay fixtures unless they have a lot of money and are willing to part with it......:laughing:


I miss typed and meant 4 lamp 8' fixtures not 2 lamp. 

To be honest I am sometimes a bit overwhelmed when a customer asks me to figure out how much and what kind of fixtures to use in a given space. 

The customer requested LED lights, not to say they know what they want, just that they are thinking low cost of operation and low maintenance. Seems the Mrs. works for a government organization that does something with conservation so that is one of the motivators for them.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

wendon said:


> Just curious why you'd install 8' T8 fixtures?? I'd install some 4 bulb T5 lowbay fixtures unless they have a lot of money and are willing to part with it......:laughing:





wendon said:


> Just a few questions;
> What model did you install?
> Where did you purchase them?
> What was the ceiling height?
> ...


What does this mean? When someone says FC, it generally means horizontal FC. In many cases, vertical FC is more important than horizontal FC. 

Vertical FC lets you see things on the shelves and horizontal FC lets you see what's laying flat on the desk. It's very easy to fool a measurement using LED technology. Light that shoots straight down can light up the floor very brightly in the library while making books on the shelves inadequately lit. Very ineffective even though it can produce a high horizontal FC reading. 




JohnJ65 said:


> I miss typed and meant 4 lamp 8' fixtures not 2 lamp.
> 
> To be honest I am sometimes a bit overwhelmed when a customer asks me to figure out how much and what kind of fixtures to use in a given space.
> 
> The customer requested LED lights, not to say they know what they want, just that they are thinking low cost of operation and low maintenance. Seems the Mrs. works for a government organization that does something with conservation so that is one of the motivators for them.


Not all LEDs are equally efficient and there are plenty out there with worse lumens/watt than T8s. LEDs are almost always the MOST expensive and struggle to break even compared to T8 or T5 option. 

The lower maintenance/utility bill is an irrelevant concern, because they're probably not going to see more than 1,000 hours a year on average. It's not unlikely that they'd go over 5 years before needing a lamp replacement even with USED T8 lamps.

In commercial buildings, lamps are often replaced all at once and most of the removed lamps still work... using USED lamps serve the sole purpose of removing their guilt of "mercury foot print". . .


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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

A couple more questions for the experts here.

I'm looking at Lithonias ZL 8' LED strip lights and I'm not seeing any information on if they will work in sub zero temperatures. Does anyone know if they will?

I'm also comparing them to 8' four lamp 54 watt T5's. Am I right that one 54 watt t5 puts out 5000 lumens? so a four lamp fixture would put out 20,000 lumens?

Also do the t5's work in sub zero temperatures? 

Thank you for any help you can share, John.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

This is a site that I've stated before

*Visual tools*

It has a few larger brand names, it does carry about every conventional
lighting applications and LED's. But might not be your desired brand.

Not that 50 fc is the set standard, if you go lower than the product spec's it disappears from the screen

50fc is what required around here for commercial kitchens! 

IMO hand holding will be in involved to get the owner to state where they want to have a work bench and that one or two other lights might be need to
be added at or slightly above head height might be required. 
Think of it as under sleeve or under counter illumination. 

Good Luck and Enjoy.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

backstay said:


> I've put these up in shops. They put out the same light as a T12HO. 8 ft was just over $200 each.
> 
> http://www.columbialighting.com/products/lcl/


Based on the picture I would lean towards these. If it was 18' ceilings I would do LED Low bays or LED canopy lights. Linear should do the best with 10' ceilings though.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Electric_Light said:


> What does this mean? When someone says FC, it generally means horizontal FC. In many cases, vertical FC is more important than horizontal FC.
> 
> Vertical FC lets you see things on the shelves and horizontal FC lets you see what's laying flat on the desk. It's very easy to fool a measurement using LED technology. Light that shoots straight down can light up the floor very brightly in the library while making books on the shelves inadequately lit. Very ineffective even though it can produce a high horizontal FC reading.
> 
> ...


Go figure. In a thread where the main parameter is suggestions for LED fixtures because that is what the customer wants, you come in and trash LEDs. Don't you have some clouds to yell at or timing to advance on a truck or something?


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

JohnJ65 said:


> A couple more questions for the experts here.
> 
> I'm looking at Lithonias ZL 8' LED strip lights and I'm not seeing any information on if they will work in sub zero temperatures. Does anyone know if they will?


Read the specs. The limitations in starting temperature is usually due to electronic ballast used to run the LEDs. The electrolytic cap can stop working correctly at very low temps. 



> I'm also comparing them to 8' four lamp 54 watt T5's. Am I right that one 54 watt t5 puts out 5000 lumens? so a four lamp fixture would put out 20,000 lumens?
> 
> Also do the t5's work in sub zero temperatures?
> 
> Thank you for any help you can share, John.


At the lamps, you're correct. The lumens delivered depends on the fixture optical efficiency which can range from 60-95%.

Yes, they'll work, but at -10F, I'd expect 5-10 minute warm-up time with an enclosed fixture. 

http://www.lightingassociates.org/i/u/2127806/f/tech_sheets/T5_Temp_Performance.pdf



Going_Commando said:


> Go figure. In a thread where the main parameter is suggestions for LED fixtures because that is what the customer wants, you come in and trash LEDs. Don't you have some clouds to yell at or timing to advance on a truck or something?


Fluorescent lamps are long light bulbs that glow evenly over the entire surface. LEDs tend to act like miniature flashlights clustered together. The discussion on vertical/horizontal lumens is relevant to all sources. The relevancy is higher towards the LED type, because directional beam tends to produce disproportionately horizontally FC and leaving vertical surfaces dark. 

The zonal cavity "work plane" method is ok for bench work like office or kitchen, but many other tasks require vertical FC. General lighting is not a substitute for task lights.


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## Fred_W (Jul 3, 2015)

LED low bay light will be good, they tend to be dust and watter proof.

Just look at my avatar....


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