# Need to verify this 800A 3PH



## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Assuming a POCO transformer (since you alluded to service) 2 sets of 500 *could* be ok. _This is dependent on your calculated load._ 240.4(B) would allow the 2 sets of 500 to be terminated on an 800 amp OCPD.

Pete


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

thanks pete. since this guy has an excavator on site (his house), would i be better off adding a pipe and splitting it three ways vs. two? he has 3 ninties in his pipe run! 

i just noticed Table 11, which is compact conductors, lets me put one more wire in. I can't imagine cutting things that tight tho, can you? i'm thinking dig up his current pipe and run it with only 2 90's, AND add an extra one. what do you think?


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## EC2253 (Mar 7, 2008)

Is this a 3 phase service?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

EC2253 said:


> Is this a 3 phase service?


The title specifies 3 phase


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

yeah, but if anyone can tell me how to make a Phase symbol on my keyboard that would be great.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

bullheimer said:


> looking at my old 2011 codebook, dont think things have changed any, i get only 380A for 500mcm in the 75 degree column. in table C 10, i can put 4 500mcm wires in each 3 in pipe, (of THHN).


 That is correct assuming PVC....



> so for an 800A breaker, this wire is too small right? i would need to go to 600mcm, good for 420A, but then Table 10 says i can only put in 3, so that's a no go. i am correct on this too right?


 As Pete stated you can use the next size overcurrent protective device up to 800 amps so as long as the load is not more than 720 amps you are okay with the 500 kcm



> so then customer is wanting to dig up the 3 inch, install 4 inch. i am thinking why not just add a third 3 inch, and divide up the 800 by three, into using 3 300 mcms (285a in 75 degree column). (all above includes a smaller neutral. plus, with the service, no ground is required.)


 Not necessary



> Also, all above wires are in Copper. maybe it would be better to do 3 runs of 400 AL. Allphase said 400 would be less than 500


It will cost alot of money to change this so why bother if it meets the demand needed. You can downsize the neutral to the size of the required grounding electrode conductor if the load allows it.


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

bullheimer said:


> yeah, but if anyone can tell me how to make a Phase symbol on my keyboard that would be great.


The proper symbol is a capital greek Phi. But I don't know of a keyboard shortcut for it.

I've been known to substitute the diameter symbol (Ø) because it has a keyboard shortcut: Alt+0216

Note that on my keyboard it only works if I use the number pad number keys, not the regular ones up top.

I also find this one (°) useful: Alt+0176


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

bullheimer said:


> yeah, but if anyone can tell me how to make a Phase symbol on my keyboard that would be great.


I have seen this as a phase symbol alt +232 Φ

or this Ø alt + 0216


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

THANK YOU. how hard do you think it is going to be to pull in?
Ø, Φ, °, wow! fing Amazing!!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here is a sticky of some common alt codes http://www.electriciantalk.com/f18/alt-codes-sticky-84009/


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

bullheimer said:


> THANK YOU. how hard do you think it is going to be to pull in?


How many bends


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

Three 9o's, and is that a Sticky on THIS website???? can wait to see it! found it, can see the forum it's in too. thanks a HEAP!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

bullheimer said:


> Three 9o's, and is that a Sticky on THIS website???? can wait to see it!


Yes it is on this site and I left a link to it.

Three bends will be hard but it should go-- I thought there was copper in it already???


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

he is currently feeding a 200A panel with one, (probably w/4/0AL), and there is nothing in the other. but where he has them is a wall about 6 feet wide, with a door about a foot from it. so 800A switch gear wont even fit there, so he is going to have to dig up the ends and change them regardless! i have to drive back down there and get the short circuit amperage to get a switchgear quote. i'll see if he gives me the job. Stick frame 2 story grow show inside a big garage. About 6500 sq ft but he wants it all done in a month!!! i'ts just ME!! takes me longer than that to rough in a 2500 ft house! But houses are such a pain with all the can lites! changes, etc! I would have help on this tho. will definitely have to rent a tugger to get this wire in!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

800 amps is huge for a house that small. I am doing a 12,000 sq. ft house and I have a 600 amp service. Is this house all electric heat?


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

no its for growing pot. legal pot. Washington State. My third Bid opportunity so far in a year. Dont know how they can make money. the first guy told me he had 50K in the xfr, 110K in electric, 100 plus in A/C and then the lights. i think they are nuts.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

We do plenty of 800 amp services with parallel 500's, just make sure the calculated load is under 760. Which 99 times out of 100 it is. The inspector doesn't even blink when he sees 500's on an 800 amp breaker.

I had a job a while back, with a similar setup, 3-500's and 1/0? ground in parallel 3" pvc's feeding a 500HP motor. It was two 90's with less than 30' of pipe. We pulled it with the crane truck that had set the motor. The wire came tight and we hit 3000+ lbs on the crane scale before she popped and started moving again. We had used that Maxxis grip kit to make a head with, now we know that's a little too snug to do it that way again.:whistling2:

But, in your case, with a good tugger and a streamlined head, it should fly in.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I would take him up on his offer to dig and add another 3" or two 4" and use Aluminum.
No way do you wan to get yourself in a situation where you are buying over 1000' of 500 copper and pulling it into that tight of underground that someone else installed.
I can't think of a single reason to use copper for this project unless you enjoy pain, unnecessary expense and possible disaster.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Unless grouted/slurried or GRC/RMC -- the copper will surely burn through your elbows.

For the size of this project, have it re-dug and re-done.

&&&

800 A three phase -- for essentially just lighting?

You could run a small steel foundry off of that Service!

The load calcs look all wrong.

He's been using his 'production.'


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

They could have some mechanical loads with handling the HVAC and they might also be able to expand a bit too.
I was at a welding shop the other day and the shop foreman was insisting on an 800 amp service.
We turned on every thing and I had him work some aluminum while I was there.
He couldn't hit 200 Amps to save his life.
He wants it anyway.
We are closing the deal.
Everybody is happy.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

telsa said:


> Unless grouted/slurried or GRC/RMC -- the copper will surely burn through your elbows.
> 
> For the size of this project, have it re-dug and re-done.
> 
> ...





A Grow House Operation ?





Pete


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Apple/Mac Option + O = Ø


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

yeah i know this is like a first day of electrical class question, but i have a hard time wondering how 6 wires (500 mcm ea) capable of 400A ea, would have a combined rating of only 800A.

you guys got me wondering now about pulling this in. i thought it would be tight myself. not sure if the local tugger at the rental yard would go up to 3000 lbs! jeeze!

there are about 130 1K lights i think he said, 130000/208 = 625A lites only. He did all the figuring, him and his russian friend with russian electrician i guess i am supposed to be under bidding. it seems to me, if i can read between his lines, he is just going to give my bid to his friends friend to beat my bid anyway, so i would just as soon he kill himself with this feeder pull than tell him to go ahead. After reading that the 500 was acceptable, i told him he could leave it as is. NOW after reading the rest of this, i am going to keep my mouth shut unless he decides to hire me, THEN i will tell him to add another 3 inch run and pull in three sets of 400 mcm. sound good?

Thanks for all your help. btw he asked me if he turned the main breaker on after a power outage, would there be any worries about surge? i said no.


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## Beetlejuice (Oct 31, 2008)

bullheimer said:


> there are about 130 1K lights i think he said, 130000/208 = 625A lites only. .



For a 3Ø load you divide by 1.732 to figure the amperage.

360.8 Amps


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## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

Why wouldnt they go with 600V (or 480V in US?) service? 347V (480V) lighting, 600V (480V) Hvac. Lighting should all be automated anyway you would think. 400A switchgear instead of 800........


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

i dont know. he wants a specific light he's been using. i knew there was a 1.73 in there somewhere! dammit. so yeah, a 600A would work. thanks alot. i am still wondering if he is going to hire me or not. he wants it done in a month and i don't want to hire anyone besides his laborer he is paying for.  jeez Pete thanks for reminding me of that, that lets me stuff in much smaller wire that will fit in the 3". is there any reason to go with copper on the service for something like this over AL?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Copper feeders are hard to work -- and more expensive -- much more expensive than aluminum for the same ampacity.

All EUSERC Pocos pull aluminum, never copper.

Washington state is a EUSERC part of the nation, BTW.

We pull copper only when spec'd in all feeder sizes. 

The one load that usually gets spec'd as copper is HVAC motor loads -- as copper handles vibration and thermal expansion much, much, better than aluminum. 

Big copper is so stiff in the turns, when tugged, that such runs are often spec'd with GRC elbows and sweeps, to boot. The labor intensity during the pull is also drastically higher than aluminum. Use plenty of soap!


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## bullheimer (Feb 1, 2013)

thank you for that and everybody else. still waiting to hear. i'll let the guy that told him to put in two 3"ers do the job i reckon. not going to volunteer any more helpful info to them unless he hires me.


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

telsa said:


> Unless grouted/slurried or GRC/RMC --
> 
> He's been using his 'production.'


What is a grouted/surried 90?


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