# Public Xformer problem



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

the door is to a parking garage, stairs up to shopping mall 'great hall'










a straight on shot here>










this is in a public access area

i was told this was to be concealed in a closet

now i'm told i'm not getting a closet



a little closer, you'll have to excuse my hack penmanship, the place has been granted occupancy....>










a typical arrangement , i've lost the manufacturers instructions so,,,,











my contention is a little kid could stick his arm into this,(sans chicken wire) or want to sit on it if it's a wee bit cold outside, etc

i say this is a potential hazard needing to be addressed

what say the voice of experience here?

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

They could also run out in the traffic.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Transformers make great glove and boot dryers


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

They're heated tables ...that they also happen to transform voltage is a minor point.

-John


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

here's the xformer web site>

http://www.solahevidutysales.com/general_purpose_distribution_transformers.htm

~CS~


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

My biggest issue would be people throwing pennies and crap in it but you seem to have that issue nailed down with your chicken wire installation :laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

erics37 said:


> My biggest issue would be people throwing pennies and crap in it but you seem to have that issue nailed down with your chicken wire installation :laughing:


Why else would we call him Chicken Steve?:laughing:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Why else would we call him Chicken Steve?:laughing:


True.

But to be fair I think it is probably called "hardware cloth."


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

erics37 said:


> My biggest issue would be people throwing pennies and crap in it but you seem to have that issue nailed down with your chicken wire installation :laughing:


a quick fix, and a rather ugly one Eric

i could almost touch the coils through the vent opening, so i can imagine a smaller arm doing so

the only other fix that came to mind was the weatherproof shield they sell, but i have no time to get it now

who here would want his/her company name associated with headlines like this>



> December 2, 2008
> ACCIDENTS Child electrocuted in transformer box MISHAWAKA -- Police said they believe a child died Thursday when he crawled into an electrical transformer and was electrocuted. Mishawaka Assistant Chief Mike Samp did not release the boy's name. He said the boy was 5 years old. Samp said the boy managed to get into a transformer box at the Williamsburg on the Lake apartment complex and was apparently electrocuted when he grabbed onto electrical circuitry inside the box. Samp said a further medical evaluation on the cause of death is expected this morning.


http://articles.southbendtribune.com/keyword/carriage-house/featured/4

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Why else would we call him Chicken Steve?:laughing:


The local FD dubbed me Chicken Steve, after Chicken George of roots fame

~CS~


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> a quick fix, and a rather ugly one Eric
> 
> i could almost touch the coils through the vent opening, so i can imagine a smaller arm doing so
> 
> ...


Seems like the best thing to do would be to stamp your feet and demand (in writing) an electrical room be built around the stuff and then get a written copy of their refusal.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

make sure the general public can see what may happen..











On a side note, I walked across the street just now to take a pic of this sticker. I have long wondered about the depiction of the inside of this transformer. Are those real symbols, or just some cold war era death machine scare propaganda? I once asked a guy who was doing the load break elbows on a transformer, and he just looked at me like I was a ****** :blink:.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

stuiec said:


> On a side note, I walked across the street just now to take a pic of this sticker. I have long wondered about the depiction of the inside of this transformer. Are those real symbols, or just some cold war era death machine scare propaganda? I once asked a guy who was doing the load break elbows on a transformer, and he just looked at me like I was a ****** :blink:.


It looks like a sickle inside electrocuting the guy. Must be Cold War s**t.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> the door is to a parking garage, stairs up to shopping mall 'great hall'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Darwin Award time?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

erics37 said:


> Seems like the best thing to do would be to stamp your feet and demand (in writing) an electrical room be built around the stuff and then get a written copy of their refusal.


I already have Eric, and they've refused to acknowledge my concerns

I've pointed this out to my AHJ as well, who claims it's a legal install

he's signed off on it all , despite my lamenting it as a hazard

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> I've pointed this out to my AHJ as well, who claims it's a legal install


And it is, so for the AHJ to turn it down would be wrong.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> I already have Eric, and they've refused to acknowledge my concerns
> 
> I've pointed this out to my AHJ as well, who claims it's a legal install
> 
> ...


Well sooner or later some kid will pee in the transformer and kill himself and we can write him off as a sacrificial martyr for safety, and then maybe a wall will get built around it.

Safety only happens when there's a high enough body count.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

jrannis said:


> Darwin Award time?


 

that would be a Mz. Wendy Northcut Jrannis

she predicated book sales on the pain of others, even parlayed an internet site to soliciting posters dragging in the potential contestants to her attention

so no, i would no more wish an install of mine to be associated with her , than i would care to hear the scanner go off dispatching to my installs

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> And it is, so for the AHJ to turn it down would be wrong.


ahj's have sovereign immunity BBQ

we don't .....



~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

stuiec said:


> make sure the general public can see what may happen..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that would be better than my chicken scratchings......~CS~


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

I think we found the new forum drama queen. 

CS, with all due respect, first off your install is neat, Code-Compliant and the hardware cloth addition to help guard that transformer is a very good idea. 

Now with that said, time to say to you: Get real man. 

Your job is done, let it go. You cannot, unless you want to set up permanent living beside that transformer, prevent someone stupid from hurting themselves. (And even if you did, someone would when you took a potty break or food break.) 

NOTHING you say or do is gonna stop someone stupid from getting hurt by pissing in that transformer or whatever other nightmare scenario your overheated imagination can conjure up. 

Since the AHJ and evidently building owner are comfortable with it, (and it is ultimately now their responsibility) you MUST let it go. 

Being too much of a nellie nanny may also cause you to lose face and jobs. 

Dude, you're gonna give yourself an ulcer or heart attack if you operate like this on a regular basis.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> ahj's have sovereign immunity BBQ
> 
> we don't .....
> 
> ...


AHJs cannot turn down what is code compliant install.

If they did otherwise you would be the first to say they are abusing their power.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

mxslick said:


> I think we found the new forum drama queen.
> 
> CS, with all due respect, first off your install is neat, Code-Compliant and the hardware cloth addition to help guard that transformer is a very good idea.


Good post, a little dramatic as usual but I totally agree. :thumbsup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mxslick said:


> > I think we found the new forum drama queen.
> >
> > CS, with all due respect, first off your install is neat, Code-Compliant and the hardware cloth addition to help guard that transformer is a very good idea.
> 
> ...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

bbq said:


> ahjs cannot turn down what is code compliant install.
> 
> If they did otherwise you would be the first to say they are abusing their power.


110.12(a)

~cs~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> 110.12(a)
> 
> ~cs~





> *110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work.* Electrical equipment
> shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
> Informational Note: Accepted industry practices are described
> in ANSI/NECA 1-2006, Standard Practices for
> ...


The openings are intended for the operation of the unit.

The openings are part of the design of listed equipment.

If you say an inspector should fail your pictured installation based on 110.12(A) than all transformer should fail for the same code section.


I see your options as follows

1) Move on

2) Pony up the money to construct the electrical room assuming the owner would be agreeable to that

3) Pull the plug on the equipment and walk away from the job. Plan on being taken to court and paying money.

So the question is, how deep our your convictions?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

FWIW a chain link fence might be a low cost solution.

It could be as small as the width of the equipment and only as deep as necessary to clear the transformers assuming you had double gates that swung out of the way to give you the workspace needed.

But honestly I think the chicken wire is enough.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> > The openings are intended for the operation of the unit.
> >
> > The openings are part of the design of listed equipment.
> >
> ...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> But honestly I think the chicken wire is enough.


i think it made a statement, thanx

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> these choices are incomplete and only engineered so for conflict BBQ


OK, what do you see as your options?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> OK, what do you see as your options?


i would have _liked_ to have solicited a code and or manufacturers reason to have this enclosed here

alas, the best laid plans of ascii mice & mechanics.....

my options are to confront the building owner(s) , and present my concern pertinent to their insurance coverage

they _sometimes _see safety issues with a different eye

the state , imho, will not help me with this, or any other issue i have, even dead to rights code related ones _(yes, i've a list, yes i've forwarded it to them)_ , which are apparently covered up faster than a cat does his biz in a catbox

if anything else, i'll be forwarding my concern in writing to the owners for the sake of my companys future liability

~CS~


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> ahj's have *sovereign *immunity BBQ
> 
> we don't .....
> 
> ...


:no::no::no:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Maybe just order the 3r hood kit for it, looks like that will make it even harder to get a hand in there.

Tom


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## Mate (Sep 5, 2009)

hang it from ceiling with a cantrust racking and anti-seismic


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

mxslick said:


> NOTHING you say or do is gonna stop someone stupid from getting hurt by pissing in that transformer or whatever other nightmare scenario your overheated imagination can conjure up.


Hey that was my overheated imagination coming up with that scenario. Gimme credit where it's due!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

davis9 said:


> Maybe just order the 3r hood kit for it, looks like that will make it even harder to get a hand in there.
> 
> Tom


i'm thinking it might be the extra mile Tom

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

360max said:


> :no::no::no:


 
24 VSA 901


~CS~


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> 24 VSA 901
> 
> 
> ~CS~


Ok, so now you want to try to take action against the AHJ/Fire Marshall? Good luck, then you might as well shoot yourself in the head right after 'cuz they will have it out for you and nitpick every single job you try to do afterwards. 

Seriously, let it go. I say this as a friend. :thumbup:


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> 24 VSA 901
> 
> 
> ~CS~


...I stand corrected. I thought  sovereign amunity dealt with foreign nations exclusively.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mxslick said:


> Ok, so now you want to try to take action against the AHJ/Fire Marshall? Good luck, then you might as well shoot yourself in the head right after 'cuz they will have it out for you and nitpick every single job you try to do afterwards.
> 
> Seriously, let it go. I say this as a friend. :thumbup:


I already have Mx. But for a concern on the other end of the job. They retained an engineer long enough to obtain a stamped set of prints, he never viewed the job.

The install called for 15 sets of 4" with parrallel 500's run under an old factory roof being monitored for snow load stress.

This calc'd out to approx 180 lbs per foot, or 9 tons wieght added

now keep in mind i politely took my ahj, as well as project manager into this area to point this out

niether busted a move

so, the state has a complaint form


i've forwarded it to my ahj's boss

if you've another choice, i'm all ears

~CS~


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

It may look like a kid might easily stick his arm in and touch something ... but trust me, as a kid I tried several times and it isn't as easy as it looks.

Nema-1 standards use a 1/4" rod to try to touch things through openings. OSHA has an "arm," though the dimensions are adult-sized and the arm has no joints.

The windings do have some insulation on them, as well as that 'paper' sticking out all over.

In short, I agree that the tranny makers have already engineered a 'fix' for this issue.

The more anal might argue the hardware cloth is a forbidden 'alteration' of the tranny, but I personally like the idea. While I've yet to find dead mice, birds, or kittens inside a tranny, there's sure to be a first time.

Places where it is, in that wide hallway, I'd be more worried about pallet jacks and the like colliding with the tranny. Maybe a pair of bollards are in order.

Otherwise ... the tranny looks to be a fine seat .... maybe add some padding to the top?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Amish Electrician said:


> It may look like a kid might easily stick his arm in and touch something ... but trust me, as a kid I tried several times and it isn't as easy as it looks....


 Sounds like we had a similar childhood. I also had a long history of doing things that made my parents buy me a drool bib and send me to school on the short bus. :laughing:

-John


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Nervous nanny. 









That bad boy ain't even got a lock on the gate yet.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

at least you've a gate Bama.....

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Amish Electrician said:


> OSHA has an "arm," though the dimensions are adult-sized and the arm has no joints.


i'd love the opportnity to show them where they can put it......~CS~


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Your transformer is no different than the 4,984,388,294 other similar transformers installed in the public way. Too much worry about nuttin'.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

and you may be perfectly right insinuating i'm paraniod MD

but i do up my installs bomb proof, so i'm a tad miffed that i'm not getting the closet promised

further, if you happen to know a 911 dispatcher, without naming names, they'll tell you one can't write the sh*t people get into

i just don't wish to be part of the story

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I saw this today at a miniature golf course in New Hampshire, I called 911, the department of homeland security ....... even the Superfriends to report and not one of them cared .......... they asked if I lived in Vermont?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

capitulation isn't one of my strong points BBQ

~CS~


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

If you are that worried about it, send the mall owner a letter with backup saying you were told it would be in a closet and that you later found out it would not be, and that since it is in a public area and accessible to the general public you will not be held liable for anything blah blah blah (after you get your final check)


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## niteshift (Nov 21, 2007)

Owner should have a fence around it, at least. Needs something for an attempt at safety.
He didn't build the closet for the equipment.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

wildleg said:


> If you are that worried about it, send the mall owner a letter with backup saying you were told it would be in a closet and that you later found out it would not be, and that since it is in a public area and accessible to the general public you will not be held liable for anything blah blah blah (after you get your final check)


already done WL

~CS~


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I saw this today at a miniature golf course in New Hampshire, I called 911, the department of homeland security ....... even the Superfriends to report and not one of them cared .......... they asked if I lived in Vermont?


But what if some kid decides to sit on it? Or stick a golf club in there? Or worse yet, get a screwdriver out of his parent's car and take the cover off?


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I saw this today at a miniature golf course in New Hampshire, I called 911, the department of homeland security ....... even the Superfriends to report and not one of them cared .......... they asked if I lived in Vermont?


Oh the horror!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> But what if some kid decides to sit on it? Or stick a golf club in there? Or worse yet, get a screwdriver out of his parent's car and take the cover off?


 And then suppose he changes the tap settings!? ANY INCANDESCENT LAMPS WILL BE EVER SO SLIGHTLY DIMMER!!!!!!!

:hang:

-John


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Big John said:


> And then suppose he changes the tap settings!? ANY INCANDESCENT LAMPS WILL BE EVER SO SLIGHTLY DIMMER!!!!!!!
> 
> :hang:
> 
> -John


:lol::lol:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I saw this today at a miniature golf course in New Hampshire, I called 911, the department of homeland security ....... even the Superfriends to report and not one of them cared .......... they asked if I lived in Vermont?


Oh the horror. A virtual public electric chair for the kids.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

until a little girl bites it, _yes_

~CS~


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

i would worry more about no straps on the flex


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

ampman said:


> i would worry more about no straps on the flex


It has straps. Sleep well tonight sir.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I think your fine. Nobody will even notice it since you sabotaged the light fixture above it.
IDK how you could even get a CO with the lights not properly working.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Peter D said:


> But what if some kid decides to sit on it? Or stick a golf club in there? Or worse yet, get a screwdriver out of his parent's car and take the cover off?



^^^^^^^^ Drama Queen......:laughing:

I have trained you well my paduan. :thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

mxslick said:


> ^^^^^^^^ Drama Queen......:laughing:
> 
> I have trained you well my paduan. :thumbup:


I learn from the best.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> I think your fine. Nobody will even notice it since you sabotaged the light fixture above it.
> IDK how you could even get a CO with the lights not properly working.


 

a CO was granted the job, even though i called the state to inform them the job was _not _done, there were loose ends, lights , em's, exits, that didn't work, etc....

~CS~


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> a CO was granted the job, even though i called the state to inform them the job was _not _done, there were loose ends, lights , em's, exits, that didn't work, etc....
> 
> ~CS~


Gosh darn democrats.


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

nolabama said:


> It has straps. Sleep well tonight sir.


where???


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

ampman said:


> where???


Halfway point of xformer two shinny things looks like one hole straps to me


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

nolabama said:


> Halfway point of xformer two shinny things looks like one hole straps to me


you got better eyes than me i don't see anything


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Let me ask you this, if you had known there was no electrical closet or fence before the install what would you have done? Would you have insisted the electrical be moved to another secured location or refused the job?

I'm more concerned about the little red box and the cheap lock. I guarantee the tamper switch isn't hooked to a 24 hr silent zone on that.

Hell, just sell the owner a couple of cameras watching the hallway and the equipment for insurance and safety reasons.:thumbup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

LARMGUY said:


> > Let me ask you this, if you had known there was no electrical closet or fence before the install what would you have done? Would you have insisted the electrical be moved to another secured location or refused the job?
> 
> 
> I would have moved the location, more than the issue of safety is the public being able to F with it all
> ...


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

What about all the exposed primaries 20' up lining almost every street in america. 

Someone sure could sling some chain up there and get fed over standing on the ground. 

What about all those non TP outlets throughout the entire establishment. 
Some kid could stick a paper clip in it and get shocked. 
Did you bring that up to the owner?

Your install is safe. 
Maybe not 100% but what electrical install is 100% safe?

By your reasoning, the only safe transformer is one that is behind 2" of plate steel in the umbrella corporations underground bunker in japan completely serviced by remote control robots with arc suits on with superman standing at the gate.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

walkerj said:


> What about all the exposed primaries 20' up lining almost every street in america.
> 
> Someone sure could sling some chain up there and get fed over standing on the ground.
> 
> ...


i want a japanesse robot in an arc flash suit:laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

walkerj said:


> What about all the exposed primaries 20' up lining almost every street in america.
> 
> Someone sure could sling some chain up there and get fed over standing on the ground.
> 
> ...


 
what about having your _good name_ on a potential Walker

i'm from a small community, codes or compliance aside, one _'aw sh*t'_ is all it takes to tank a reputation

~CS~


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> what about having your good name on a potential Walker
> 
> i'm from a small community, codes or compliance aside, one 'aw sh*t' is all it takes to tank a reputation
> 
> ~CS~


Dude. 
It's a transformer. 

They have them on poles in your neighborhood most likely with much more exposed terminals than that. 

Any electrical install anyone does ever is a potential hazard.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Guys, give up. CS is so convinced that the world is going to end over this install and nothing we say is going to change his mind. Now he is just trolling and we are feeding him.


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## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

mxslick said:


> Guys, give up. CS is so convinced that the world is going to end over this install and nothing we say is going to change his mind. Now he is just trolling and we are feeding him.



But what if some kid sticks his hand in, gets electrocuted, comes back to life as a zombie chicken.... and thus begins the Zombie Apocalypse? 

Crap. Did I just throw out more chicken feed? My bad...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mxslick said:


> Guys, give up. CS is so convinced that the world is going to end over this install and nothing we say is going to change his mind. Now he is just trolling and we are feeding him.


OK Mommy.........:no:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mxslick said:


> Guys, give up. CS is so convinced that the world is going to end over this install and nothing we say is going to change his mind.* Now he is just trolling and we are feeding him*.


 
excuse me?

_who_ reserected this thread Mx?

wasn't _me_, was it?

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

As to my hecklers here, let me make my position simple for you

This is my biz, i burnt quite the amount of midnight oil to get it up, running, and i like to do things MY way

I'll say when the job is _done _and/or _safe_, not the rest of the world

~CS~


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## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

Don't get butt hurt. If you didn't want opinions, then why'd you ask for (and I quote), "the voice of experience"? Don't get me wrong; I see where you're coming from. I wouldn't want my name tied to that either. However, if you have your mind made up, then cover your butt and stop whining.


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> As to my hecklers here, let me make my position simple for you
> 
> This is my biz, i burnt quite the amount of midnight oil to get it up, running, and i like to do things MY way
> 
> ...


without any straps


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> As to my hecklers here, let me make my position simple for you
> 
> This is my biz, i burnt quite the amount of midnight oil to get it up, running, and i like to do things MY way
> 
> ...


Actually unless you are donating your services and the material and the building it is in it is not "your job" the job belongs to the customer. 

If you want it to exceed code and exceed what the customer wants you need to stop crying and start paying for the added work that you think it needs.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

ampman said:


> without any straps


again......>


the day the OC was granted there were present > the local *Fire Chief*, the *Deputy Fire Chief*, The *AHJ*, the *Fire marshal*, The AHJ as well as the Fire Marshall's *Regional office super* Amp

now as i stated, i informed them i was _not_ finished a week prior, i was also on the job , made my presence obvious, and was well know to _all_ of them _(it's a small pond)_

they passed it anyway.....


and trust me, a strap is the _least_ of the boo-boos there

~CS~


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> again......>
> 
> 
> the day the OC was granted there were present > the local *Fire Chief*, the *Deputy Fire Chief*, The *AHJ*, the *Fire marshal*, The AHJ as well as the Fire Marshall's *Regional office super* Amp
> ...


see i told you


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## niteshift (Nov 21, 2007)

I know this don't mean much, but it did pass and will be/is open for business.:thumbsup:

I wish I could find my pic of a HV trasformer with both doors hanging open, 2' off the sidwalk, right next to the FD.  3rd world country.
Response time should be quick.:whistling2:


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> excuse me?
> 
> *who reserected this thread* Mx?
> 
> ...


Unknot your panties dude, it wasn't me either.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mxslick said:


> Unknot your panties dude, it wasn't me either.


don't accuse me of what i'm_ not_ guilty of then Mx


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> don't accuse me of what i'm_ not_ guilty of then Mx


The usual upper echelon of clowns who's sh*t doesn't stink, I would love to hear all the comments they'd have about a job I'm doing under the radar without AFCIs , smokes and TR devices.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

If i learned anything recently Doc, it's that the state agencies here all bowed down to a federal $$$, and subsequently didn't do their job(s) 

and they're more than willing to let the onus of _liablity_ rest on the small guys like me to keep it here

so what, in comparrission, could you or i _possibly_ do that's worse?

~CS~


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> If i learned anything recently Doc, it's that the state agencies here all bowed down to a federal $$$, and subsequently didn't do their job(s)
> 
> and they're more than willing to let the onus of _liablity_ rest on the small guys like me to keep it here
> 
> ...


Nothing, as long as my work don't burn . The same thing happened up here in a local village where armored wiring is local code . The mayor even met with the investor of a mixed use building in a downout nieghborhood, let do all his own electrical work in romex, let all his work fly by with no permits . The guy then contacted me for a service upgrade, I didn't want to touch it. I feel sorry for the poor slob that did the upgrade if hell ever breaks loose there.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

the politics of our trade wieghs heavily at times Doc. 

i really was a boyscout once upon a time too, iaei certs, the whole code geek nfpa gods bit....

but when you see the guru's you've looked up to sell out, and realize the altruism you worshiped is nothing but a false prophet, it stings badly

this is why i fault no one for seeking to buck this broken system anymore

~CS~


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> the politics of our trade wieghs heavily at times Doc.
> 
> i really was a boyscout once upon a time too, iaei certs, the whole code geek nfpa gods bit....
> 
> ...


I did that route, member of the local EC association, code seminars. I now consider myself a "rogue" member of the community.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I did that route, member of the local EC association, code seminars. I now consider myself a "rogue" member of the community.


 
consider here, you've possibly got it backwards Doc

without licensed trades, the ahj's, dept of whatever public safety, etc would cease to exist, or at least be reduced to the anarchy of hacks

it's a symbiant relationship where, we support each other's existence

if they choose to turn their back on a license, or play politics, THEY have gone _rouge...._

_~CS~_


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Best photo I could get
I feel it's relevant.
Edit I will get a camera involved lol.


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