# Up in flames...



## xaH (Jun 21, 2013)

IEC stuff seems to go into complete melt down as its mode of failure.


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## circuitman1 (Mar 14, 2013)

looks like a total replace & start over.:thumbup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

At least the din rail mounts make it an easier swap out Mal

~CS~


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

xaH said:


> IEC stuff seems to go into complete melt down as its mode of failure.


So does NEMA stuff, I pulled what I think used to be a Square D manual starter out the other night, seems a maintenance guy hooked some 480 to some 240 and bad **** happened. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> So does NEMA stuff, I pulled what I think used to be a Square D manual starter out the other night,


Sure enough if you screw with it bad enough but most times I find NEMA starters can close into a fault and survive while IEC is more like an old flash cube. "POOF" and its all done. 




> seems a maintenance guy hooked some 480 to some 240 and bad **** happened. :laughing:


I will always remember the very angry noise an old 120 volt magnetic ballast for a florescent light made when I tied it into 277. It survived, it was only live a second or two.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Sure enough if you screw with it bad enough but most times I find NEMA starters can close into a fault and survive while IEC is more like an old flash cube. "POOF" and its all done.


Yeah I've seen a few of the french crap brand do that, same with an Italian made brand. Bang no more start :laughing: 

Most of our IEC failures are just bad out of box, we get the occasional one. I oversize IEC starters cause of how cheap the stuff is.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Yeah I've seen a few of the french crap brand do that...


 Why you gotta talk smack about Telemecanique? That is the highest quality electrical equipment that it's possible to make out of recycled milk cartons.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I was told in my second year of apprenticeship telemecanique was French for chit garbage.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> recycled milk cartons.


There are days I fill 5 gallon buckets with recycled milk cartons. 


I was pretty mad the other day cause some well idiot took a bunch of motor logic ol's out and put in Telecrap for no reason. :blink: The motor logics were probably doing their job protecting the motor or some terrible thing like that :laughing:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I have see simair mess over here in France and that kind mess useally cause a hard short circuit and just remember that we do use 400 to 415 volt range on full triphase circuit and when get a hard short circuit it will leave simair mess like your 480 volt IEC devices.

I have one 160 amp triphase blew it apart and end up replace the whole thing due it did leave a hole in wall. ( curpit was one of the dolts bypass the fuselink which it is no longer legit for very good reason.)

Merci,
Marc


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## malestrom (Jun 24, 2013)

Personally and from what I could see it had to do about the quality and the connections also on his lack of knowledge.

If you look closely in the pictures (of what was left!) you'll see that he had connected in parallel, the motor switch (the one that has melted) and the ground-fault switch (if that's the term) That way,when you have a ground fault and the switch opens the circuit,what is connected after that,will still have it's power but the electrical fault (leakage) will still be live on the metal parts, in the store. Totally *illegal *but done here....

On the bottom right corner there 3 wires 25mm which gave the 3X100A mains.After that he connected in a parallel form, the ground fault switch and the motor switch.

That's the culprit because there is no way you can tighten a 25mm and a 16mm wire in α single contact with a Philips screwdriver. You can see the 2 wires in each contact and how bad they are.They're in the "air"... Anything above 63A should have an Allen key,for that matter.

Apart from all this being caused by a non certified electrician with no whatsoever knowledge all of us know, that a loose contact can and will cause this sort of damage.I use to work in a store that sold electrical items and equipment,so I'm familiar with almost every brand and their items.I had this salesman come over from ABB (the brand that's in the pictures) and challenged him to do something.

I had a 3X100Amp ABB switch in front of me (with Philips screws on the contacts) and challenged him to tighten the 3 25mm pieces of wire.He put the wires in the contacts,I gave him a screwdriver and after he assured me that he had tighten all 3, I simply pulled them out.I gave him a 2nd and a 3rd switch.He broke the 2nd one (from trying to tighten it as much as he could) Again all 3 wires came out.

The expression on his face was *priceless*.I gave him another brand (Hager) to be more specific,which had Allen screws and he managed to tighten the wires.I told him that whoever thought of this (in his company) has never installed a switch or just has no knowledge at all.

After that,he assured me that he would take it to his superior and the designer team but nothing eventually changed.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Someone is nuts when try to do the 16mm et 25mm conductors I will never go that route. That is a sure way to get anything on fire if the RCD failed.

I betcha that the earth system was allready comperised from start.

Merci,
Marc


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