# Best EUSERC 200A panel?



## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

I like the "Best 200A panel" thread and didn't want to hijack it.

For you mid-west and east-coast sparkies, EUSERC is a committe that establishies standards for electrical utilities. On the left coast, the smaller independent utilities use EUSERC drawings or standards to specify the metering equipment customers must provide. In my current situation, only a "meter-breaker" or "all-in-one" panel is practical to meet the EUSERC requirement.

I am a Square D guy from way back. Gimme QO and copper busses and I am a happy camper.

Can I get QO in a EUSERC package?

NOOOOO WAY!!!

I can get Homeline junk no problem though.

Can't use UG in this case, only OH or OH/UG.

So I looked at CH. CMBE4242B200BTS to be precise. Looks good, well made, copper bus:thumbsup:. BUT HUGE (WIDE) and mega cha-ching!!

Next I looked at Siemens.MC2442B1200SEC in this case. Again, looks good, copper busses, and not so wide, but they have this strange 4-pole MCB right in the middle of the bus. Whats up with that? Prices aren't as good as I can get with SQD QO but seem a bit better than CH's CH series.


So what do you think?

Should I just use the junk panels with AL busses and Bleech breakers (homeline, CH-BR, GE, K-mart), or try to justify something nice? 

Or maybe there is another alternative?

I could use a "meter main" -a meter socket with a 200A MCB. But that + a QO outdoor panel starts to get big again.

Cheers,
EJPHI


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

Around here, our utility mandates Milbank “or equivalent” for all meter equipment. For a 200A meter/main, I would normally use a Milbank U3990-XL-200.

Just a heads up…If your on the 2008 NEC there, watch out if your one of those Resi guys that likes to install an all-in-one, meter/main/loadcenter outside to feed AC equipment, then run SER cable to another loadcenter in the building. You need to be careful about using reduced sizes in Table 310-15*, [6], as some inspectors may fail the job because they don’t consider that as using the same single set of main power feeders to carry “all loads” associated with that dwelling unit.*


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

KayJay said:


> Around here, our utility mandates Milbank “or equivalent” for all meter equipment. For a 200A meter/main, I would normally use a Milbank U3990-XL-200.
> 
> Just a heads up…If your on the 2008 NEC there, watch out if your one of those Resi guys that likes to install an all-in-one, meter/main/loadcenter outside to feed AC equipment, then run SER cable to another loadcenter in the building. You need to be careful about using reduced sizes in Table 310-15*, [6], as some inspectors may fail the job because they don’t consider that as using the same single set of main power feeders to carry “all loads” associated with that dwelling unit.*


*

California is on the 2005 NEC.*


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The funniest thing I got out of this post was the K-Mart breaker, and that rung a bell. Honest to God, K-Mart actually did have a private brand labeled breaker, which I think was OEM'd by Westinghouse. So did Montgomery Wards. Sears had one too, but I forget what it was like. It might have been a Wadsworth. EDIT... no, maybe Sears breakers were Crouse-Hinds?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> The funniest thing I got out of this post was the K-Mart breaker, and that rung a bell. Honest to God, K-Mart actually did have a private brand labeled breaker, which I think was OEM'd by Westinghouse. So did Montgomery Wards. Sears had one too, but I forget what it was like. It might have been a Wadsworth.



I swear the General Switch stuff is Westinghouse OEM too, but I could be wrong.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Speaking of EUSERC, I've been unable to figure out how a "test/bypass" meter socket works. I've looked at pictures of it in the Milbank book, but I don't see the bypass feature. Are jumpers used for bypass?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

EJPHI said:


> Or maybe there is another alternative?
> 
> I could use a "meter main" -a meter socket with a 200A MCB. But that + a QO outdoor panel starts to get big again.
> 
> ...


I don't know if they still make it but how about a back to back all in one?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Speaking of EUSERC, I've been unable to figure out how a "test/bypass" meter socket works. I've looked at pictures of it in the Milbank book, but I don't see the bypass feature. Are jumpers used for bypass?


Horn bypass needs jumpers. I have a picture of my pair someplace. They plug on the bypass horns like big FastOn terminals.

There is automatic bypass, that is spring loaded. It pops on when you pull the meter, and isn't that obvious at a glance. 

Test/Bypass is a little bit of an odd duck. It's a lot like the way you'd take an old A-Base meter in and out of service. A test/bypass meter has the line and load side bus bars for each phase parallel to one another, with a threaded stud on each bus bar. The typical brass or copper test/bypass jumper with the wooden or plastic handle in the middle can be fitted on the studs and a nut tightened down to bypass the meter. Darn, I wish I had a picture of a test/bypass jumper, but it's a standard size jumper that's been in use for the history of electricity practically. I did manage to scare up a picture of the guts of a test/bypass type meter can. You'll note the little silver hex nuts on the bus bars where a bypass jumper can be installed:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I did manage to scare up a picture of the guts of a test/bypass type meter can. You'll note the little silver hex nuts on the bus bars where a bypass jumper can be installed:


I see. The Milbank ones I looked at used copper conductors in place of bus bars connected to a terminal block of some sort, IIRC. That must be where the bypassing is done.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I see. The Milbank ones I looked at used copper conductors in place of bus bars connected to a terminal block of some sort, IIRC. That must be where the bypassing is done.


Yeah, some of the Milbank stuff has that bypass stuff in a little section all of its own. If I remember rightly, the can comes with the bypass jumpers, and if you take them out and put them in a different way, it's in bypass mode. Been a while since I've been in one like that.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Been a while since I've been in one like that.


You use those in your area? I thought that was just a western oddity.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> You use those in your area? I thought that was just a western oddity.


No, but I see them from time to time. Someone must install them. I know I sure don't. Some of the bigger and more oddball meter cans can sometimes be purchased from the power companies, so that might be where they came from. I just make it a point to poke my nose in all the oddball stuff as it crops up.


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## Jaxx (Jan 9, 2013)

Hey Guys!

I'd like to continue this topic.



KayJay said:


> Just a heads up…If your on the 2008 NEC there, watch out if your one of those Resi guys that likes to install an all-in-one, meter/main/loadcenter outside to feed AC equipment, then run SER cable to another loadcenter in the building. You need to be careful about using reduced sizes in Table 310-15*, [6], as some inspectors may fail the job because they don’t consider that as using the same single set of main power feeders to carry “all loads” associated with that dwelling unit.*


*

Could you or someone else please elaborate on this a little more?

EJPHI, what panel did you end up going with. I am also looking for a small form factor 200A meter socket main panel with 8/16 spaces/circuits that can provide a 110-125A circuit for a subpanel.

Thanks!*


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

I finally went with the Siemans product. It fit my narrow profile perfectly. Sort of cool to do 200 A service for an 1100 fT^2 house. Only in CA!!!

Seimans advertised a copper bus, but they lie a bit. The breakers plug into a copper bus, but the neutral bars and the bus bars that the meter plugs into are all good old Al:blink:!!!

The screws used to hold the meter bus bars together feel like they are going to strip out just as you reach the torque limit. Ever work on an engine with aluminum heads? This is scary.

Seimans did something right though, they have MWB compatible AFCI breakers. My favorite SQ-D QO still does not have a EUSERC compatible panel nor do they offer MWB AFCI's. It has been at least 3 years, SHEESH

EJPHI


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

EJPHI said:


> I finally went with the Siemans product. It fit my narrow profile perfectly. Sort of cool to do 200 A service for an 1100 fT^2 house. Only in CA!!!
> 
> Seimans advertised a copper bus, but they lie a bit. The breakers plug into a copper bus, but the neutral bars and the bus bars that the meter plugs into are all good old Al:blink:!!!
> 
> ...


SQ D dropped the QO all in ones after introducing the HOMOLINE, doubt they are bringing it back.


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## Jaxx (Jan 9, 2013)

EJPHI said:


> I finally went with the Siemans product. It fit my narrow profile perfectly. Sort of cool to do 200 A service for an 1100 fT^2 house. Only in CA!!!


Same here, 1100 sqft, 200A panel



EJPHI said:


> Seimans did something right though, they have MWB compatible AFCI breakers. My favorite SQ-D QO still does not have a EUSERC compatible panel nor do they offer MWB AFCI's. It has been at least 3 years, SHEESH
> 
> EJPHI


What about this one?: SC816F200S

http://ecatalog.squared.com/fulldetail.cfm?partnumber=SC816F200S

It says it's EUSERC certified.


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