# GFI outlet on an Arc Fault circuit



## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

I want to install a GFI outlet in a bathroom that is connected to the bedroom circuit. The bedroom circuit is connected to an arc fault breaker. Any issues with this??? I think it's OK but am I missing something?


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

Yes, see 210.11(C)(3), which requires bathroom branch
circuits to have no other outlets.


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## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

It's old work with existing wiring. We are not running all new circuits. I just want to know if the GFI will cause problems with the arc fault circuit breaker.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

olectric said:


> It's old work with existing wiring. We are not running all new circuits. I just want to know if the GFI will cause problems with the arc fault circuit breaker.


.

It should not cause any functional problems. It shouldn't arc
and hot and neutral current should be balanced.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

olectric said:


> I want to install a GFI outlet in a bathroom that is connected to the bedroom circuit. The bedroom circuit is connected to an arc fault breaker. Any issues with this??? I think it's OK but am I missing something?


I'm missing something - if the bedroom is connected to an arc-fault circuit, then shouldn't the construction post-date the code cycle where 20a receptacles and circuits were required for bathrooms? IOW, isn't there already a 20a circuit and receptacle in the bath, and, if so, does adding another, even on a 15 or 20a bedroom circuit, after that minimum standard is met, be legal?


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## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

It's a long boring story. I was trying to get right to the point. But here is the story: It's a partial remodel. We are making the place look nice and pretty. Paint, sinks, carpet, new white devices. No new circuits. Just installing new devices on existing wiring and adding Arc fault to the bedrooms and GFI to the bathrooms.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

There's no problem with adding an outlet off a bedroom circuit as long as it's gfci protected and in addition to the required 20A bathroom receptacle. The gfci device does not affect the afci device either.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

rexowner said:


> Yes, see 210.11(C)(3), which requires bathroom branch
> circuits to have no other outlets.


 I don't think he is talking about the rec within 3' of the sink. I belive that adding the rec is fine and adding a GFCI rec on an AFCI cir will work all day long.


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

GFCI receps will work just fine on AFCI circuits.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

i learned something from this post now if i can just get the arc falt to stop tripping even without the gfci


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

zen said:


> i learned something from this post now if i can just get the arc falt to stop tripping even without the gfci


You need to locate the arc fault.

It's usually a bare ground touching the neutral terminal in a receptacle, poor sheath stripping, bad make-ups or a staple driven it too tight.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

i found it ,,,arc fault home run to 2g 1 sl to 4 cans 1 sl to fan hot out to plugs,,arc f hr to plug circut doesnt trip but arc f hr to fan or 4 cans trips every time i tried hr to only fan h n g and it trips then hr to only cans h n g and it trips...no attic so i guess ill drop each can and check for loose joints,,,the fan is from 2g to fan so it can only b in 3 possible places ,,,the fan the canopy or the wall/staple...the arc fault monster strikes again im all for safety my only home is that arc fault suckage pushes romex makers device makers and general wiring in a more uniform way to raise the bar


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

i found the neutral touching the bare ground you spoke of and needless to say no more stabbing 14/2 ill be wrapping them as with 12/2.. the sollution didnt come easily,,and i could be wrong with my analysis. the circut was tripping when i turned a switch to one can light on but wouldnt trip when the bulb was out so i assumed the neutral touching the ground wasnt significant enough to trip the arc fault till there was a load on the neutral from the light being on,..arc faults are tricky turning on the fan or the light would trip the arc fault but the plug circut alone wouldnt, assuming my problem was in the fan or light circut was incorrect as it turned out to be the minimal load from a neutral as it went through the plug circut


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## hiloelectric (Jun 11, 2009)

Back to the Orginal Subject, Is it really necessary to install a GFI being that a Combination AFCI is a GFCI also?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

hiloelectric said:


> Back to the Orginal Subject, Is it really necessary to install a GFI being that a Combination AFCI is a GFCI also?


"Combination AFCI" does not give you the required GFCI protection. "Combination" means the AFCI checks for line-to-neutral, line-to-ground and ground-to-neutral arc faults, as well as series and parallel faults.

The GFCI protection trip ratings built into a combo AFCI is not rated (Class A) to trip at the required 4-6 ma. They're usually around 30-40 ma.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Just don't plug hair clippers into it... They always trip my gfi when they are turned off.. Not sure why.. I must assume it's induction. or just the cheap clippers.
Guess I should shave more open so I don't need clippers.. ;-)


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