# Fire detection for dog kennel



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I have a customer who wants to install some fire detection in her dog kennel. It's not a commercial building so I don't want to use a commercial fire alarm or burglar system. Simplicity is key here. The kennel is on the same property as the house and she wants something to wake her up in the middle of the night.

She uses a back pack blower to clean the kennels out so a regular smoke detector is not going to work, unless I want to replace it every two weeks. :no:

So far I've come up with two ideas:

1) Use a line voltage heat detector with a relay to trip a fire alarm horn strobe outside. 

2) Use a Kidde line voltage heat detector in the kennel, connected to a Kidde wired/wireless base transmitter/receiver outside of the kennel area in the garage, with a wireless smoke detector inside the bedroom. This is my least favorite option as I see nuisance alarms and wireless communication issues. 

Thoughts?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i like #1. is this kennel in the same building?how far from the house?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

I would think you would still need some type of "smoke detector". It might be too late for the dogs if only a heat sensor was used, depending on where the fire was or the heat sensor.
I wouldn't think a smoke alarm/detector mounted up high would be effected by her cleaning the kennel.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Forget the smoke -- the dogs will be absolutely howling -- of course.

Install a carbon monoxide detector. Even dogs can't smell "CO."

A remote security camera -- with a link to her home is the way to go.

A heat detector is but a part of most security light switching. 

Fires are hot. So you want a heat detector -- not a smoke detector.

A remote microphone -- that can be switched on at the house -- would permit her to know just how upset the dogs are.

Every dog alive will be barking up a storm when a fire gets rolling. It's instinct.


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## panelbuilder (Jul 12, 2013)

telsa said:


> Forget the smoke -- the dogs will be absolutely howling -- of course.
> 
> Install a carbon monoxide detector. Even dogs can't smell "CO."
> 
> ...


FWIW the remote microphone can come from the camera.
Even a home depot cheapo that connects directly to a TV will have a microphone.

Just make sure the camera has a microphone is all.


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

Spot type smoke detector - No (for the reasons already listed)
Heat detector - No, in any form. Not a life safety device (human or dogs)

I know you want to keep it simple, but I think a projected beam detector may be your best bet. Front of transmitter & receiver will have to be cleaned regularly (dust). The problem may be finding a relatively short range model; they did have a minimum mounting distance and probably still do.

If you're not going to install a fire alarm system, you might want to be careful with terminology; verbal and written


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

papaotis said:


> i like #1. is this kennel in the same building?how far from the house?


Detached building, it's maybe 35'-40' as the crow flies to her bedroom window.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

A Little Short said:


> I would think you would still need some type of "smoke detector". It might be too late for the dogs if only a heat sensor was used, depending on where the fire was or the heat sensor.
> I wouldn't think a smoke alarm/detector mounted up high would be effected by her cleaning the kennel.


The fumes from the backpack blower would set it off. Using an electric blower is not likely. I know a heat detector is not a life safety device but I can't come up with anything that won't get fouled by the dog hair, dust and exhaust from the leaf blower.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

GrayHair said:


> Spot type smoke detector - No (for the reasons already listed)
> Heat detector - No, in any form. Not a life safety device (human or dogs)
> 
> I know you want to keep it simple, but I think a projected beam detector may be your best bet. Front of transmitter & receiver will have to be cleaned regularly (dust). The problem may be finding a relatively short range model; they did have a minimum mounting distance and probably still do.
> ...


Last I checked, a beam SD was $700 and requires a commercial control panel and notification devices. Not happening.


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## psgama (Oct 26, 2015)

I would use a UV/IR type of detector in the kennel, but it's more for flame and not for smoke. We use a different model in heavy industry, but false alarms are rare. Something like this combined with a Rate of Rise Heat detector maybe. It really depends how creative you want to get and how much money they are looking to spend.

http://www.honeywellanalytics.com/en-ca/products/Fire-Sentry-SS3-Flame-Detector


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I can't imagine a fire that would not produce copious amounts of carbon monoxide.

Talk to your local fire marshal: all house fires are Not stoichiometric. ( meaning: ideal burning -- ie have ENOUGH oxygen to burn clean... 'clean' meaning burning without carbon monoxide. )

[ Gasoline is stoichiometric at 14.7 to 1 -- which is the ratio that your digital automobile 'brain' is working towards. ]

ANY structure is fuel-rich and oxygen poor.

It's for this reason that arson investigators can spot the crime -- easy peasy.

Run this by your local college chemistry professors. 

Heh.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I guess I don't understand this whole thread. 

For starters, what is the purpose of the "alarm" ? Is it to protect the building or the animals in it ? If it is to protect the animals, are you really serious about even considering heat detectors ? I would have to believe that heat detection would merely allow you to notify that you are about to have a bunch of fried dogs and a burnt down kennel. Smoke detectors, as far as I know, were designed to give occupants 5 minutes to get out. Flame detectors usually indicate ignition, which would be great if the dogs are in danger of spontaneously combusting, but otherwise might also be useless. 

so, not being and expert on the subject, I agree with others that some type of smoke and or gas detection is in order, since it only makes sense that this detection is desired in order to save the dogs and the kennel (?). There are many gas detectors that can be inhibited so they don't sample during the blow down period and not clogged like general purpose smokes/co detectors might be.

I would suggest a read of NFPA 150 for starters, and see where that leads you. You might also contact some manufacturers just for kicks and see if there isn't something that fits the bill exactly, prior to installing a poorly designed or less than best practice scenario.

not trying to be a debbie downer, that's just my 02


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## DonnieHaft (Oct 30, 2015)

As per my experience you must use the smoke detector. 
It might be too late if only a heat sensor was used, depending on where the fire was or the heat sensor.
I wouldn't think a smoke detector mounted up high would be effected by her cleaning the kennel.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> I have a customer who wants to install some fire detection in her dog kennel. It's not a commercial building so I don't want to use a commercial fire alarm or burglar system. Simplicity is key here. The kennel is on the same property as the house and she wants something to wake her up in the middle of the night.
> 
> She uses a back pack blower to clean the kennels out so a regular smoke detector is not going to work, unless I want to replace it every two weeks. :no:
> 
> ...


https://www.blinq.com/detail/home/o...NpXUM3bIZfMuk_8RUPHpa3L6JedmwNJhW0aAjr98P8HAQ


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> https://www.blinq.com/detail/home/o...NpXUM3bIZfMuk_8RUPHpa3L6JedmwNJhW0aAjr98P8HAQ


That requires a control panel.


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