# Is an IEC apprenticeship legit?



## Southeast Power

I'm not a fan. They seem to use it to hustle around paying Prevailing Wage.
I would avoid it unless somehow they wanted to invest in you.


----------



## Dan the electricman

IEC is a training organization, and a contractor group. 

It's similar to the IBEW, but it's not a union, and they do not have a formal contractor/worker agreement.

They train apprentices, and journeyman (for a fee), and refer workers to contractors. 

I have a couple friends who went through their program, and earn decent money as journeyman. 

In my opinion, the IBEW is a better program, and helps workers earn more money. The union employees are paid from worker dues, but I've found it's worthwhile. The IBEW does not charge apprentices for school.


----------



## pudge565

Alec thenice said:


> The IEC seems to be centered around Washington DC. Representatives I have spoken to on the phone from the program seem to have no sense of where I am located or where contractors for any of their programs are located or operate job sites. In addition to the little information they are capable of providing me they want a $100 application fee. Does this sound typical? These characteristics make it seem like some sort of scheme to me. Can anyone vouche for the IEC?


The IEC is a fine program, in fact, I know the guy that wrote the textbooks that they are moving to very soon. They are not like a union so they don't really have a pool of contractors that use them. The IEC is simply a training organization that is approved by the DOL, I know they have a pretty heavy presence in NJ.


----------



## stiffneck

I took code class last fall with them. Here in St. Louis, they just completed a new facility for apprentices. I typed in "Chesapeake, OH IEC apprenticeship addresses for classes near me". Got a "Laurel, MD." and a "Dulles, VA." addresses to choose from.


----------



## Alec thenice

Southeast Power said:


> I'm not a fan. They seem to use it to hustle around paying Prevailing Wage.
> I would avoid it unless somehow they wanted to invest in you.


not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.


----------



## stiffneck

Alec thenice said:


> not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.


Have you ever taken a class with IEC at anytime, anywhere in the United States, to make your "assessment" ?


----------



## CoolWill

I took some code update classes at the Atlanta chapter years ago. And worked with some of their apprenticeship graduates. Seemed decent enough.


----------



## Southeast Power

stiffneck said:


> Have you ever taken a class with IEC at anytime, anywhere in the United States, to make your "assessment" ?


I was there when they started out, the 4 people I knew that went IEC, left the trade. I don’t know how to defend that.


----------



## nrp3

What point are you at for apprenticeship? Just starting out with no training? Typically two routes people go, union or non union. There is classroom training regardless, usually at least 4 yrs. The goal is to get your journeyman's license if you are in an area that requires one. I can't speak for union training, sounds really good. From the non union side of things, its usually nights that follow the public school year. Two or three nights a week and a regular work day. Ideally, your company picks up the bill or at least reimburses you for successfully passing the classes yearly. It ranges from interesting sometimes to painfully dull. It's something that you have to endure and make the best of. You meet people along the way, find out about other contractors, who does what, pay, work conditions. Start making connections. It won't be perfect by any stretch, with work experience being more important.

And as it has been mentioned in other threads, you need to make sure from the beginning, that you have a method of keeping track of your hours so that if you change employers, you get credit for the time there and at the end you can show you have enough to test for the journeyman's. While the companies are supposed to do this for you, your mileage may vary. Look out for yourself, you worked hard for this.


----------



## Southeast Power

Very good observation. Don't expect anyone to properly and completely keep up your documentation.


----------



## Alec thenice

stiffneck said:


> Have you ever taken a class with IEC at anytime, anywhere in the United States, to make your "assessment" ?


I haven't taken any classes by the IEC. I make this "assesment" based on them suggesting a 100% online portion of the classroom section because of where I am located (20mins from Naval station Norfolk) which left me feeling like they were asking a large sum of money for this experience because as I understand it, as an IEC apprentice you must still seek employment independently. I bet they are a fine orginization to recertify through.


----------



## Alec thenice

nrp3 said:


> What point are you at for apprenticeship? Just starting out with no training? Typically two routes people go, union or non union. There is classroom training regardless, usually at least 4 yrs. The goal is to get your journeyman's license if you are in an area that requires one. I can't speak for union training, sounds really good. From the non union side of things, its usually nights that follow the public school year. Two or three nights a week and a regular work day. Ideally, your company picks up the bill or at least reimburses you for successfully passing the classes yearly. It ranges from interesting sometimes to painfully dull. It's something that you have to endure and make the best of. You meet people along the way, find out about other contractors, who does what, pay, work conditions. Start making connections. It won't be perfect by any stretch, with work experience being more important.
> 
> And as it has been mentioned in other threads, you need to make sure from the beginning, that you have a method of keeping track of your hours so that if you change employers, you get credit for the time there and at the end you can show you have enough to test for the journeyman's. While the companies are supposed to do this for you, your mileage may vary. Look out for yourself, you worked hard for this.


Im waiting to hear back from my IBEW organizer on how the interviews went. I feel confident however would like to stay on the hunt. I think the IBEW is my golden ticket but am trying to prepare myself to find another way to journeyman cert if needed. Thank you for your advice for thoes gearing up for a non union apprenticeship


----------



## nrp3

Try to avoid paying anyone large sums of money for the classroom training. Let your employer do that. An all online version could work if you are motivated enough. And definitely make sure it meets the State's or whomever regulates licensing's requirements for classroom training for journeyman's licensing.


----------



## Alec thenice

*Important to know about IEC*



stiffneck said:


> I took code class last fall with them. Here in St. Louis, they just completed a new facility for apprentices. I typed in "Chesapeake, OH IEC apprenticeship addresses for classes near me". Got a "Laurel, MD." and a "Dulles, VA." addresses to choose from.


Interesting that you got the same search results for Chesapeake, OH that I got when I searched Chesapeake, VA. What confuses me further is why i was not associated with the Alexandria office, closer to Chesapeake VA Geographically.


----------



## Alec thenice

*Independent apprenticeship hangups*



nrp3 said:


> Try to avoid paying anyone large sums of money for the classroom training. Let your employer do that. An all online version could work if you are motivated enough. And definitely make sure it meets the State's or whomever regulates licensing's requirements for classroom training for journeyman's licensing.


You are right, an all online version could work. I took online math classes in college and did just fine. That being said I knew the educational experience was different and I would like to be the best tradesman I can be. Where I am really caught up when it comes to persuing a non union apprenticeship is like where to start, it seems best to talk to a contractor so you know that he sees merit in you and your program down the line but on the other hand it seems like some contractors have an established way of employing electrical labor I'm not familiar with. Can you offer any insight on how independent contractors get electrical labor?


----------



## nrp3

Around here, and probably most anywhere, applying for this job isn't unlike any other. You show up, reply to an add, maybe you know someone who knows a contractor that needs help. I think things are still good around here and probably not too tough to get a non union apprenticeship. It's not really that formal or structured. Some of the big ones here might teach there own classes. It could be as easy as going to a supply house counter (preferably when they aren't so busy) and ask if they know of any contractors looking for apprentices. If it were here, I'd make a few calls and find out who might be interested. Helps when you know people. Being part of a contractor organization helps. If you want a non union job, just get out there and introduce yourself. You have to start somewhere, but look out for your well being along the way. Show up, shut up, and just work hard. There is plenty of need for good young talent. It's nice to have some experience, but you'll get molded into what we need if you provide the effort.


----------



## stiffneck

Southeast Power said:


> I was there when they started out, the 4 people I knew that went IEC, left the trade. I don’t know how to defend that.


 You where there in Texas back in 1957?
Here in St. Louis, for ibew, "Henry's Boy" which is a term that describes "sons" "grandsons" "nephews" etc that drop out. For the actual "Henry's boy" it was 3 times. How do you defend that? Knowing that others, if allowed the opportunity wouldn't have needed a 2nd and 3rd chance. Back in 1992 I had 3-ibew local-1 contractors that wanted to hire me, but they weren't allowed to. I was not allowed to test, (hands on or written) or interview or stand before a board ever. How do you defend that? So what was I supposed to do, be a carpenter or something? At my shop today, we have a 60yr guy from St. Louis who went from high school, to Ranken Tech which has been around since 1907, from the same location since 1907. This 60yr guy then got hire at Guarantee Electric which is a local-1 contractor in St. Louis since 1904. There he worked under a "temporary work permit". He liked working for them and GUARANTEE ELECTRIC WANTED HIM TO DO AN APPRENTICESHIP. However, *ibew local-l* said no and he had to go. Without ever testing/interviewing he was forced out by local-1. He never got back in and worked elsewhere. How do you defend that? Eventually coming to my shop 2 years ago, because Crane America (who he was working for) went out of business. We are very fortunate to have him. We've had some local-1 electricians come and go and stay and quite frankly _some_ of them are "marginal" employees. Oh sure they're good installers but a little dangerous with a volt/ohm meter and lost with out prints or as-builds. Several years ago I read an article in a pub called "EC". I believe it to be Electrical Contractors news or something. Sachs Electric of St. Louis stated that it was having a hard time coming up with decent Electrical Foremans in the St. Louis area and that there would be a shortage today. Sachs even rumored to consider closing it's electrical unit in the St. Louis area. Why? Could it be they are stuck with what ibew gives them? How do you defend that?

When ibew denies you the right to work for an ibew contractor, does that mean ibew has the right to deny you from working in the electrical industry? How do you defend that? ibew has been convicted of unfair hiring practices going all the way back to 1940 (look it up). ibew was a leading factor for Federal and State governments to invent Affirmative action, which screws people like me, because "sons" and POS "sons" always get in. How do you defend that? Today, 2019 ibew local-1 thru the Airport Electric Shop steward, who has since left, stated that local-1 is willing to represent us for free or we can go down to it's hall and go to work right away. The 60yr old guy and me just looked at each other and back to the local-1 guy and laughed. That's rich, why would we want to do that? Why go down to your hall today. Get assigned to some 31yr old foreman that's lost and sweating bullets trying to get a job done. Pay full dues knowing we're not eligible for retirement pay/health care because we don't have an ibew journeyman's card, which are based on NEPOTISM.


THANK GOD FOR THIS COUNTRY AND INDEPENDENCE DAY.
Fuxk in bred electrical workers club


----------



## Alec thenice

*Labor organozers*



stiffneck said:


> You where there in Texas back in 1957?
> Here in St. Louis, for ibew, "Henry's Boy" which is a term that describes "sons" "grandsons" "nephews" etc that drop out. For the actual "Henry's boy" it was 3 times. How do you defend that? Knowing that others, if allowed the opportunity wouldn't have needed a 2nd and 3rd chance. Back in 1992 I had 3-ibew local-1 contractors that wanted to hire me, but they weren't allowed to. I was not allowed to test, (hands on or written) or interview or stand before a board ever. How do you defend that? So what was I supposed to do, be a carpenter or something? At my shop today, we have a 60yr guy from St. Louis who went from high school, to Ranken Tech which has been around since 1907, from the same location since 1907. This 60yr guy then got hire at Guarantee Electric which is a local-1 contractor in St. Louis since 1904. There he worked under a "temporary work permit". He liked working for them and GUARANTEE ELECTRIC WANTED HIM TO DO AN APPRENTICESHIP. However, *ibew local-l* said no and he had to go. Without ever testing/interviewing he was forced out by local-1. He never got back in and worked elsewhere. How do you defend that? Eventually coming to my shop 2 years ago, because Crane America (who he was working for) went out of business. We are very fortunate to have him. We've had some local-1 electricians come and go and stay and quite frankly _some_ of them are "marginal" employees. Oh sure they're good installers but a little dangerous with a volt/ohm meter and lost with out prints or as-builds. Several years ago I read an article in a pub called "EC". I believe it to be Electrical Contractors news or something. Sachs Electric of St. Louis stated that it was having a hard time coming up with decent Electrical Foremans in the St. Louis area and that there would be a shortage today. Sachs even rumored to consider closing it's electrical unit in the St. Louis area. Why? Could it be they are stuck with what ibew gives them? How do you defend that?
> 
> When ibew denies you the right to work for an ibew contractor, does that mean ibew has the right to deny you from working in the electrical industry? How do you defend that? ibew has been convicted of unfair hiring practices going all the way back to 1940 (look it up). ibew was a leading factor for Federal and State governments to invent Affirmative action, which screws people like me, because "sons" and POS "sons" always get in. How do you defend that? Today, 2019 ibew local-1 thru the Airport Electric Shop steward, who has since left, stated that local-1 is willing to represent us for free or we can go down to it's hall and go to work right away. The 60yr old guy and me just looked at each other and back to the local-1 guy and laughed. That's rich, why would we want to do that? Why go down to your hall today. Get assigned to some 31yr old foreman that's lost and sweating bullets trying to get a job done. Pay full dues knowing we're not eligible for retirement pay/health care because we don't have an ibew journeyman's card, which are based on NEPOTISM.
> 
> 
> THANK GOD FOR THIS COUNTRY AND INDEPENDENCE DAY.
> Fuxk in bred electrical workers club


I get where you are coming from. Where there's power there is corruption and the "right to work" is valuable. Something I learned at a young age is that somtimes a guy will not pay you for a job if he can for a variety of reasons. The union part is what I think attracts a lot of guys. Also all the Henry's boys gotta go somewhere, no one ever learned anything without messing up first. That being said it is unfortunate you have not had experiences to deem the IBEW a meritocracy.

Stiffneck, when you started did you want training or just a job? I remember you telling me in another thread you didnt consider yourself engaged in a career. Myself, i could go for training, i hope the IBEW calls me on monday and says its on but what i really want is to say is "i bought this truck with this electrical job and well see where it goes from there. This is the sentiment i approach this with. I genuinely think the use and flow of electricity is cool.


----------



## Alec thenice

nrp3 said:


> Around here, and probably most anywhere, applying for this job isn't unlike any other. You show up, reply to an add, maybe you know someone who knows a contractor that needs help. I think things are still good around here and probably not too tough to get a non union apprenticeship. It's not really that formal or structured. Some of the big ones here might teach there own classes. It could be as easy as going to a supply house counter (preferably when they aren't so busy) and ask if they know of any contractors looking for apprentices. If it were here, I'd make a few calls and find out who might be interested. Helps when you know people. Being part of a contractor organization helps. If you want a non union job, just get out there and introduce yourself. You have to start somewhere, but look out for your well being along the way. Show up, shut up, and just work hard. There is plenty of need for good young talent. It's nice to have some experience, but you'll get molded into what we need if you provide the effort.


I really like the idea of going to a supply house counter. Thats a great idea and suits the type of personality I have. Thanks for you're continually helpful insight and replys!


----------



## nrp3

I think there will be strong opinions here one way or the other for both union and non union paths. I’d be willing to bet it’s not much different than online reviews for products and companies. Yes, there is some luck involved, but much in life depends upon what you put in.


----------



## Southeast Power

stiffneck said:


> You where there in Texas back in 1957?
> Here in St. Louis, for ibew, "Henry's Boy" which is a term that describes "sons" "grandsons" "nephews" etc that drop out. For the actual "Henry's boy" it was 3 times. How do you defend that? Knowing that others, if allowed the opportunity wouldn't have needed a 2nd and 3rd chance. Back in 1992 I had 3-ibew local-1 contractors that wanted to hire me, but they weren't allowed to. I was not allowed to test, (hands on or written) or interview or stand before a board ever. How do you defend that? So what was I supposed to do, be a carpenter or something? At my shop today, we have a 60yr guy from St. Louis who went from high school, to Ranken Tech which has been around since 1907, from the same location since 1907. This 60yr guy then got hire at Guarantee Electric which is a local-1 contractor in St. Louis since 1904. There he worked under a "temporary work permit". He liked working for them and GUARANTEE ELECTRIC WANTED HIM TO DO AN APPRENTICESHIP. However, *ibew local-l* said no and he had to go. Without ever testing/interviewing he was forced out by local-1. He never got back in and worked elsewhere. How do you defend that? Eventually coming to my shop 2 years ago, because Crane America (who he was working for) went out of business. We are very fortunate to have him. We've had some local-1 electricians come and go and stay and quite frankly _some_ of them are "marginal" employees. Oh sure they're good installers but a little dangerous with a volt/ohm meter and lost with out prints or as-builds. Several years ago I read an article in a pub called "EC". I believe it to be Electrical Contractors news or something. Sachs Electric of St. Louis stated that it was having a hard time coming up with decent Electrical Foremans in the St. Louis area and that there would be a shortage today. Sachs even rumored to consider closing it's electrical unit in the St. Louis area. Why? Could it be they are stuck with what ibew gives them? How do you defend that?
> 
> When ibew denies you the right to work for an ibew contractor, does that mean ibew has the right to deny you from working in the electrical industry? How do you defend that? ibew has been convicted of unfair hiring practices going all the way back to 1940 (look it up). ibew was a leading factor for Federal and State governments to invent Affirmative action, which screws people like me, because "sons" and POS "sons" always get in. How do you defend that? Today, 2019 ibew local-1 thru the Airport Electric Shop steward, who has since left, stated that local-1 is willing to represent us for free or we can go down to it's hall and go to work right away. The 60yr old guy and me just looked at each other and back to the local-1 guy and laughed. That's rich, why would we want to do that? Why go down to your hall today. Get assigned to some 31yr old foreman that's lost and sweating bullets trying to get a job done. Pay full dues knowing we're not eligible for retirement pay/health care because we don't have an ibew journeyman's card, which are based on NEPOTISM.
> 
> 
> THANK GOD FOR THIS COUNTRY AND INDEPENDENCE DAY.
> Fuxk in bred electrical workers club


I was referring to when they showed up here.
I feel sorry for your liver.


----------



## stiffneck

Alec thenice said:


> Interesting that you got the same search results for Chesapeake, OH that I got when I searched Chesapeake, VA. What confuses me further is why i was not associated with the Alexandria office, closer to Chesapeake VA Geographically.


The Alexandria office might be a political office only.


----------



## stiffneck

Southeast Power said:


> I was referring to when they showed up *here*.
> I feel sorry for your liver.


Where is here? Southeast Florida?
Not very accurate when it comes to facts and details.
At best your second sentence is childish.
I can see you came up the easy way, did someone pave the path for you?


----------



## stiffneck

Alec thenice said:


> I get where you are coming from. Where there's power there is corruption and the "right to work" is valuable. Something I learned at a young age is that somtimes a guy will not pay you for a job if he can for a variety of reasons. The union part is what I think attracts a lot of guys. Also all the Henry's boys gotta go somewhere, no one ever learned anything without messing up first. That being said it is unfortunate you have not had experiences to deem the IBEW a meritocracy.
> 
> Stiffneck, when you started did you want training or just a job? I remember you telling me in another thread you didnt consider yourself engaged in a career. Myself, i could go for training, i hope the IBEW calls me on monday and says its on but what i really want is to say is "i bought this truck with this electrical job and well see where it goes from there. This is the sentiment i approach this with. I genuinely think the use and flow of electricity is cool.


 I didn't realize how young you are 
Of course having representation is a good thing and there's always someone who will try and rip you off. Most guys start off trying to get into ibew, including myself. But we never get that chance. That's why when someone like "southeast power" quips; guys who don't get in is because they couldn't make it or handle it. The opposite is the truth. The guys never allowed into a ibew apprenticeship, yet make into the Electrical Industry _despite_ ibew trying to stop you. My 1rst application for local-1 resulted in a letter stating, "I would never qualify for an Electrical Apprenticeship, but if I needed work, I could go down to the Carpenters Hall and apply." No test/interview, nothing and you look at who does get in :lol: That's why it's most excellent that the Carpenters Union started Electrical Workers Local-57, here in St. Louis. Local-1 had shut down a 24 floor 289ft tall building project because local-1 didn't get to plug in the cords for some electrically powered window louvers the Carpenters installed. Local-57's largest contractor now has 50 guys in it right now and is putting in 47 miles of new cable/lighting coils/spices/fixtures, etc on runway 12L-30R at my airport  In the mean time, the local-1 contractor that has a "maintenance contract" to do my work has complained that my supervisor hasn't been giving him any work  So later this month, I'm supposed to escort this local-1 contractor out into the "movement area" (runway-taxiway area of an airport). We are suppose to open the signs, clean the signs, touch up paint the signs while they install a LED retro light kit. Finally, we get to install new panels and then move onto the next location. Also, I'm suppose to show them what to do with the In-pavement and Elevated Runway Guard Lights. Also, do lock-out-tag-out at the substation and maintenance lock the SCADA system. It will take us(myself/crew) longer to mentor and tutor them, as opposed to just doing it all ourselves. This co-project is still pending as to who/what/when/how it's to be done. But you can see what some of us put up with, just to do our job. Respect is a two-way street, except with ibew, never got any from them and I don't expect any anytime soon. Even after having to "teach" a local-1 foreman how to 'troubleshoot" his first 2 "science projects" because they didn't work.
Ibew is the opposite of a "meritocracy" not sure why you would think that it was. The fact that someone can make a call a re-instate an apprentice who was dropped, or a journey man who gets fired is actual sent back to the Hall.


----------



## stiffneck

Alec thenice said:


> I get where you are coming from. Where there's power there is corruption and the "right to work" is valuable. Something I learned at a young age is that somtimes a guy will not pay you for a job if he can for a variety of reasons. The union part is what I think attracts a lot of guys. Also all the Henry's boys gotta go somewhere, no one ever learned anything without messing up first. That being said it is unfortunate you have not had experiences to deem the IBEW a meritocracy.
> 
> Stiffneck, when you started did you want training or just a job? I remember you telling me in another thread you didnt consider yourself engaged in a career. Myself, i could go for training, i hope the IBEW calls me on monday and says its on but what i really want is to say is "i bought this truck with this electrical job and well see where it goes from there. This is the sentiment i approach this with. I genuinely think the use and flow of electricity is cool.


 Part-II
Had to cut it off, so let me finish. I knew as early as age 15 what I wanted to do and it included training as an apprentice. The work was for Overhead Line Distribution work a.k.a. Power company lineman. At one point every Electric Utility/Co-op from Missouri, Illinois, Kansas, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska had an application on file from me. This was back in the 1980's, 1990's with out the Internet. All I had was telephone, post office, library, electric typewriter, Industrial publications and 2 used cars(If one didn't start or was broke down, got in the other, never late or miss). I even took a job with the largest CATV company in the country to learn how to climb poles just to help and worked for an employer to get my CDL. Zip/nada/nothing, including ibew local-1 and 2 here in St. Louis. As far as "Henry's Boy" is concerned, yea he can wash dogs and cats at his Aunt's pet store in south St. Louis cit-ay. He can also pick up/drop off the animals when his driver's license isn't suspended or revoked  Today it is hilarious to me when a hiring hall or company can't get enough guys in. Both did it to themselves years ago and it's to late in the game for me to climb again. I liked doing line work, but CATV pay was so low I left for Trade School, which got me where I'm at to day. Nowadays there are climbing/distribution schools all over the place. Some are good and will get you the job, others are not. Plus, some of the companies are so short handed, they've actual gone back to hiring off the street and training you. All you need is a CDL, even then some will do that for you as well. Can't get a CDL using a car.
To wrap it up, you chances of getting in are quite good. Ibew lost 500,000 members between 2002-2015 in part due to the arrogance of members like southeast power. I myself stop paying dues back in 2001, for several reasons including 2nd class citizenship with no chance of earning 1st class citizenship. On the plus side for them, ibew has regained over 200,000 members between 2015-2018. Your experience with them should be completely opposite of what we outlanders faced years ago. They are very eager to get some fresh blood or new meat on the roster and that would be YOU!
Hope it works out for ya :thumbsup:
Chris Hanson


----------



## TGGT

stiffneck said:


> Where is here? Southeast Florida?
> Not very accurate when it comes to facts and details.
> At best your second sentence is childish.
> I can see you came up the easy way, did someone pave the path for you?


Every local is different. For better or worse I came in as a CE. Got my journeyman license and turned in my hours every month and was turned out as a JIW 2 years later. Having my state license I negotiated with my employer to JIW wages for those 2 years, but without the good benefits. 

Kept at it and became a foreman 2 years after that. Didn't know anybody, and probably pissed off some of the guys at the hall along the way.

The hall never did anything to hold me back but they sure didn't do much to help me either. There's a lot that could change for the better but more dedicated men have tried and failed to steer this institution. I don't believe it a good life long career, but the alternative usually isn't better.

I try to be as "brotherly" as I can, and try to be fair to my crew. I took the steward training so I try to manage in a fashion that hopefully would be considered fair in the eyes of a steward or the hall. I'm mindful of their rights and privileges even if they are not and educate them about it when I can even in the midst of disciplinary action.

I've been hung out to dry by the hall when I needed them, but I don't hold that against my fellow worker, my union ideals do not live and die with the IBEW.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## stiffneck

TGGT said:


> *Every local is different.* For better or worse I came in as a CE. Got my journeyman license and turned in my hours every month and was turned out as a JIW 2 years later. Having my state license I negotiated with my employer to JIW wages for those 2 years, but without the good benefits.
> 
> Kept at it and became a foreman 2 years after that. Didn't know anybody, and probably pissed off some of the guys at the hall along the way.
> 
> The hall never did anything to hold me back but they sure didn't do much to help me either. There's a lot that could change for the better but more dedicated men have tried and failed to steer this institution. I don't believe it a good life long career, but the alternative usually isn't better.
> 
> *I try to be as "brotherly*" as I can, and try to be fair to my crew. I took the steward training so I try to manage in a fashion that hopefully would be considered fair in the eyes of a steward or the hall. I'm mindful of their rights and privileges even if they are not and educate them about it when I can even in the midst of disciplinary action.
> 
> I've been hung out to dry by the hall when I needed them, but I don't hold that against my fellow worker, my union ideals do not live and die with the IBEW.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 I disagree, every local is the same, the difference is in the degree of _intensity_.
I have found that not every ibew Journeyman is a Jackofk. But that should be expected, when dealing with large groups of people.


----------



## HertzHound

No. Every local *is* different. And sometimes there are factions inside a local that can be as different as Democrats and Republicans. Each pulling the local in different directions. Not in terms of politics, but in terms of organizing and every other aspect of running a local. 

I am very happy with the leadership our local has now. Our recently retired president I have the utmost respect for. It will be near impossible to fill his shoes. But the BM and his cronies should have been shown the door ten years ago. At the time I guess we didn’t have better options.


----------



## brian john

Alec thenice said:


> not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.


I am a union contractor and I toured the local IEC facility as part of an OSHA 30 class I attended (independent from the IEC) and the facility was impressive, I have worked with a few guys that went through the IEC program and they seemed to be competent workers.

Unless you have direct evidence of something that points this orginization as providing POOR TRAINING, I would avoid making such statements.


----------



## Alec thenice

*Online program*



brian john said:


> I am a union contractor and I toured the local IEC facility as part of an OSHA 30 class I attended (independent from the IEC) and the facility was impressive, I have worked with a few guys that went through the IEC program and they seemed to be competent workers.
> 
> Unless you have direct evidence of something that points this orginization as providing POOR TRAINING, I would avoid making such statements.


I think the idea of a 100% online program which is what was offered to me did not sound right. No harm meant, I bet the instructors and facility are good. I will correct my original post as to not dissuade potential applicants and not seem derogatory in nature.

I was told the local around me meets again on the 18th to decide how many/when training will begin for the next class. I ran into a guy at a supply house and he said he had work for me as a helper so I guess I will be doing that until an apprentice opportunity that seems right presents itself.


----------



## Alec thenice

*Union sentiment*



TGGT said:


> Every local is different. For better or worse I came in as a CE. Got my journeyman license and turned in my hours every month and was turned out as a JIW 2 years later. Having my state license I negotiated with my employer to JIW wages for those 2 years, but without the good benefits.
> 
> Kept at it and became a foreman 2 years after that. Didn't know anybody, and probably pissed off some of the guys at the hall along the way.
> 
> The hall never did anything to hold me back but they sure didn't do much to help me either. There's a lot that could change for the better but more dedicated men have tried and failed to steer this institution. I don't believe it a good life long career, but the alternative usually isn't better.
> 
> I try to be as "brotherly" as I can, and try to be fair to my crew. I took the steward training so I try to manage in a fashion that hopefully would be considered fair in the eyes of a steward or the hall. I'm mindful of their rights and privileges even if they are not and educate them about it when I can even in the midst of disciplinary action.
> 
> I've been hung out to dry by the hall when I needed them, but I don't hold that against my fellow worker, my union ideals do not live and die with the IBEW.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I share a similar view on union ideals and access to higher education that you do. Well said. I don't think I will hear back from my local for a while since the comity won't meet to talk shop until the 18th. I met a guy at a supply house today that was with an electric company and said he would take me on as a helper after we talked for a while. He offered lower pay than I wanted but I figured what I needed was experience and work until I hear what my local union hall has in mind for its next class of apprentices.


----------



## Alec thenice

*IEC opportunity clarification*



Alec thenice said:


> not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.


I was offered a 100% online program at the same tuition rate as the in person apprenticeship program. I am not a course evaluator nor do I hold any industry relevant certification. If I lived in the DMV area I would peruse their in person apprenticeship.


----------



## iwirekansas

The IEC apprenticeship in Kansas City was based on the exact same text book as the IBEW.


----------



## stiffneck

iwirekansas said:


> The IEC apprenticeship in Kansas City was based on the exact same text book as the IBEW.


Kansas City "Kansas" or "Missouri"?
How are things on the other side of the state?
Do you still have a "Ford" assemble plant?
Did you have a "Harley Davidson" plant? That got closed?
Hope you guys are doing well, here in St. Louis we are doing "mediocrely".


----------



## bartstop

stiffneck said:


> iwirekansas said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IEC apprenticeship in Kansas City was based on the exact same text book as the IBEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Kansas City "Kansas" or "Missouri"?
> How are things on the other side of the state?
> Do you still have a "Ford" assemble plant?
> Did you have a "Harley Davidson" plant? That got closed?
> Hope you guys are doing well, here in St. Louis we are doing "mediocrely".
Click to expand...


I think both Ford and GM plants are still open. I’ve heard Harley is shut down but I don’t know for sure. I went out on my own full time back in 2013. I didn’t see any reason to maintain my ticket since they have a ban on union members contracting. So I’m out of the loop on union work around here. Also, Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri are both under LU #124’s jurisdiction.


----------



## stiffneck

bartstop said:


> I think both Ford and GM plants are still open. I’ve heard Harley is shut down but I don’t know for sure. I went out on my own full time back in 2013. I didn’t see any reason to maintain my ticket since they have a ban on union members contracting. So I’m out of the loop on union work around here. Also, Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri are both under LU #124’s jurisdiction.


I forced the Cit-ay to allow me to take the master's test and I passed. Then the Cit-ay allowed me to pay for the license, but the inspection department refused to allow me to pull a permit. Then the license department got into it with the building code department. In the mean time I had rapidly deteriorating health and just said the heck with it. This was around 2004-05 or so. No ibew for me, here apprenticeships are based on Nepotism. From 1970's thru to maybe 2015 or so. So I have a piece of paper that collects dust. On the up side. The state of Missouri is marching on with a "State" license and over riding St. Louis Cit-ay and County and dozens of little tin horn dictatorships in the county. It's a mess on the east side of the state. Some have had to take either/both St. Louis Cit-ay, County to court. As far as In Bred Electrical Workers are concerned, that would be local-1 and 2 on the Missouri side and 309 on the Illinois (East side). All three of them are as _oily_ as refinery. Also, the Ford plant is gone, both Chrysler plants gone, the big GM plant it the cit-ay long gone, but the newer, small GM plant 1-hour west of downtown is running making either small pickups or large vans or both.


----------

