# EMT to Troffers?



## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

Good luck. I have had one job in my career that would not allow flex of any sort on fixtures. It was in the specs that greenfield could be used for any equipment that caused vibration only. The State inspector wanted emt to all fixtures. It was a royal pain. We only had about 50 layins but hundreds of high hats. It was also a 3/4" minimum emt.

Charlie


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Charlie K said:


> Good luck. I have had one job in my career that would not allow flex of any sort on fixtures. It was in the specs that greenfield could be used for any equipment that caused vibration only. The State inspector wanted emt to all fixtures. It was a royal pain. We only had about 50 layins but hundreds of high hats. It was also a 3/4" minimum emt.
> 
> Charlie


Now THAT is overkill! Wow...


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I love flex simply for the ease of it but if they require EMT it will just make you more money. Just bid it right and enjoy. EMT can be fun too. It's all fun. Let us know if you get the job. Who knows, you may be able to get some extra help here.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I love flex simply for the ease of it but if they require EMT it will just make you more money. Just bid it right and enjoy. EMT can be fun too. It's all fun. Let us know if you get the job. Who knows, you may be able to get some extra help here.


Emt in out of cans all day long doesn't sound like a walk in the park to me.:laughing:
How would it be done with lay-ins?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Emt in out of cans all day long doesn't sound like a walk in the park to me.:laughing:
> How would it be done with lay-ins?


Well, I did not say I preferred EMT in that situation. If it is required I would walk ALL day in the park being paid by the hour, but I know what you are talking about.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Well, I did not say I preferred EMT in that situation. If it is required I would walk ALL day in the park being paid by the hour, but I know what you are talking about.


I've never had to emt cans before so it sort of interests me. But I can also imagine my boss not being very happy with me walking in the park with my installations. 
My boss: "Come on, it's just like mc, get it done!"
Me:""


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> I've never had to emt cans before so it sort of interests me. But I can also imagine my boss not being very happy with me walking in the park with my installations.
> My boss: "Come on, it's just like mc, get it done!"
> Me:""


Depending on how close the troffers are to each other, I can visualize the conduit system the same as if you used greenfield, or whatever. If you place the j-box close wouldn't you just pipe in short nineties to the fixtures? And you are right about your boss, but I wouldn't be walking through the park holding my PIPE...for many other reasons.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Depending on how close the troffers are to each other, I can visualize the conduit system the same as if you used greenfield, or whatever. If you place the j-box close wouldn't you just pipe in short nineties to the fixtures? And you are right about your boss, but I wouldn't be walking through the park holding my PIPE...for many other reasons.


Yeah, that would get you arrested in most states.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Im trying to picture using EMT for troughers, does not seem all that bad...drop down from your box in the pan and just run conduit from fixture to fixture. Use caddy K8 clips or batwings to support the conduit to the pencil wire supporting the drop ceiling. Sounds like a lot more fun than using BX!


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## Ohmbre (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm not sure what you mean by troffers. If you mean lay-in fixtures in a drop ceiling, say 2x2's or 2x4's than yes in Chicago you CAN use fixture whips in lengths no greater than 6'. Be aware that outside the city of Chicago in the surrounding areas they tend to follow the NEC more than the Chicago code.

If it is a plenum ceiling than those whips as well as the fixtures themselves must be plenum rated. This can become a bit costly.

It's important not to confuse the specs on the drawing with the code itself. We're seeing a lot of prints where the specs call for installations way above and beyond what the Chicago code calls for.

I know Chicago gets a bad rap across the country. Is hard piping can lights overkill, maybe. as previously stated bid the job appropriately and you'll do just fine.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Yeah, that would get you arrested in most states.


OKAY, I see we are on the same page. Truthfully, do you think that the EMT is a rough one for that job? What you have to stop and remember is that we all basically want to do a good job and getting that GOOD job done as quickly as possible is part of being a good craftsman. If, in worrying about the fact that using EMT, rather than greenfield whips, will take considerably longer to get the SAME LIGHT LIT, the only thing you have control of is your labor. Work as swiftly and safely as you can because that is all that is in your control...you did not pick the piping method.


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## Ohmbre (Oct 8, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Im trying to picture using EMT for troughers, does not seem all that bad...drop down from your box in the pan and just run conduit from fixture to fixture. Use caddy K8 clips or batwings to support the conduit to the pencil wire supporting the drop ceiling. Sounds like a lot more fun than using BX!


Yeah, Conduits must be independantly supported from the pencil rod supporting the ceiling. So basically you must shoot you own rod to support your conduit and boxes or use 1/4-20 rod and beam clamps.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Ohmbre said:


> Yeah, Conduits must be independantly supported from the pencil rod supporting the ceiling. So basically you must shoot you own rod to support your conduit and boxes or use 1/4-20 rod and beam clamps.


 
Ah I see...that does seem like a lot of work now lol. Pretty common practice to support small conduit and BX from the pencil wire supporting the ceiling around here. They make those clips for a reason right?

It can turn into a mess when guys take advantage of that though.


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## Ohmbre (Oct 8, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Ah I see...that does seem like a lot of work now lol. Pretty common practice to support small conduit and BX from the pencil wire supporting the ceiling around here. They make those clips for a reason right?
> 
> It can turn into a mess when guys take advantage of that though.



YUP, ever see those yellow clips that tie pencil rod onto the grid? That's to identify the pencil rods that support the conduit and boxes. Must be properly identified.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> OKAY, I see we are on the same page. Truthfully, do you think that the EMT is a rough one for that job? What you have to stop and remember is that we all basically want to do a good job and getting that GOOD job done as quickly as possible is part of being a good craftsman. If, in worrying about the fact that using EMT, rather than greenfield whips, will take considerably longer to get the SAME LIGHT LIT, the only thing you have control of is your labor. Work as swiftly and safely as you can because that is all that is in your control...you did not pick the piping method.


I'm not sure what exactly you mean. 
I've always use whips when wiring fixtures like that so i guess that's what I'm used to. I'm sure if I had to pipe it all I'd get into a groove with it and it wouldn't be a problem. But i imagine overall, less bends and cuts the quicker it would be.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Ohmbre said:


> YUP, ever see those yellow clips that tie pencil rod onto the grid? That's to identify the pencil rods that support the conduit and boxes. Must be properly identified.


 
Never seen them before...is that a Chicago thing? I wish they would enforce stuff like that here. There are some nasty drop ceilings out there.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Ohmbre said:


> YUP, ever see those yellow clips that tie pencil rod onto the grid? That's to identify the pencil rods that support the conduit and boxes. Must be properly identified.


Good idea. I think.:whistling2:


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## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

The job I did with emt to the fixtures was a 
state job. It was in Maryland. It was the inspectors interpatation of the code and spec. We started this project with one inspector and halfway through the job he left due to medical problems. The highhats had to be knocked out to 3/4". The troffers had to be opened up because you could not use the speed plates because of getting the wire in. I looked for some pictures of this job and cant find them. I will check with my son and post them if he has them. 80% of the ceilings were drywall and 12'. This is also the job where they specd hide a lite emergency fixtures that failed big time.

Charlie


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## Ohmbre (Oct 8, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Never seen them before...is that a Chicago thing? I wish they would enforce stuff like that here. There are some nasty drop ceilings out there.


Sure is. It kind of identifies the pencil rods as yours and keeps everyone else off of them.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

That's what i was wondering about. The connections to the troffers themselves with emt. How did you open them up? In what way exactly?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> I'm not sure what exactly you mean.
> I've always use whips when wiring fixtures like that so i guess that's what I'm used to. I'm sure if I had to pipe it all I'd get into a groove with it and it wouldn't be a problem. But i imagine overall, less bends and cuts the quicker it would be.


I guess I am just wondering why worry about the quickness when they are telling you to do it the hard way. Another thing is that I got a job a long time ago and what had happened was the workers used greenfield into a fixture and then another greenfield out of , and into the next fixture. It may have been a local thing but the inspector ran them off and told us to tear it out and place j-boxes close by and only 1 whip to each fixture. It seemed like a good idea to me too.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I guess I am just wondering why worry about the quickness when they are telling you to do it the hard way. Another thing is that I got a job a long time ago and what had happened was the workers used greenfield into a fixture and then another greenfield out of , and into the next fixture. It may have been a local thing but the inspector ran them off and told us to tear it out and place j-boxes close by and only 1 whip to each fixture. It seemed like a good idea to me too.


Yeah, I've never gone in and out of a troffer. Pipe, j-box, flex, splice, move on.

As far as quickness is concerned, getting it done as quick as possible saves the co money, or, loses the co money. Of course if it's t&m, boss and estimator could care less. But if it's a bid, I got individuals breathing down my neck.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Ohmbre said:


> Sure is. It kind of identifies the pencil rods as yours and keeps everyone else off of them.


Good to know some people actually follow the rules! LOL


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Yeah, I've never gone in and out of a troffer. Pipe, j-box, flex, splice, move on.
> 
> As far as quickness is concerned, getting it done as quick as possible saves the co money, or, loses the co money. Of course if it's t&m, boss and estimator could care less. But if it's a bid, I got individuals breathing down my neck.


I have worked a LOT with one particular contractor. Once, when working a T&M job at GE my boss told me that I was losing them money. Can you imagine that? ME!...AS GOOD AS I AM?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I have worked a LOT with one particular contractor. Once, when working a T&M job at GE my boss told me that I was losing them money. Can you imagine that? ME!...AS GOOD AS I AM?


Oh no, not you.

I've lost my company some money in back charge from screw-ups, sure, I'll admit it. And I get yelled at, and almost always take responsibility for my screw-ups. 
But I've also made it tons and tons of cash.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

I figure just run the junction boxes between two rows of lights and 90 down to each light for the office section. 

I can see where the NEC amendments are coming from on this. This part of KY is on the New Madrid fault line, so they are just being safe. Lay-ins have to be tied to structural on all four corners, instead of two. 

As for running whips from one fixture to the next as mentioned in above posts. We can't do that here either, got caught on that in a commercial retrofit last year. Luckily it was only the addition of nine lay-ins so it was a pretty easy fix.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

chenley said:


> I figure just run the junction boxes between two rows of lights and 90 down to each light for the office section.
> 
> I can see where the NEC amendments are coming from on this. This part of KY is on the New Madrid fault line, so they are just being safe. Lay-ins have to be tied to structural on all four corners, instead of two.
> 
> As for running whips from one fixture to the next as mentioned in above posts. We can't do that here either, got caught on that in a commercial retrofit last year. Luckily it was only the addition of nine lay-ins so it was a pretty easy fix.


Same here.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

The worst part about this spec method of installation is any later trades working in that cieling pulling cables, ductwork, data, etc will most likely damage the connection at the troffer since the most ofter used raceway termination points are those cheesy clip on plates atop the fixture.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Im trying to picture using EMT for troughers, does not seem all that bad...drop down from your box in the pan and just run conduit from fixture to fixture. the drop ceiling. Sounds like a lot more fun than using BX!


Use caddy K8 clips or batwings to support the conduit to the pencil wire supporting



The red portion of your response is illegal


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

We Did a retro fit on a state job once that called for EMT to 2x4's. We were able to get the inspector to allow us mount a 4 sq on top of the fixture so we could pipe from fixture to fixture. One off-set up to some all thread and then back down to the next light. It was very easy after we did the 1st one.


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