# Motor rotation meter



## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I've had this one for about 5 years. Non contact and works great. You just clip it on the outside of the wire insulation. It confirms each phase has power as well.

*AEMC - 2004349 6610 Phase Rotation Meter, 75 to 1000 VAC*








AEMC - 2004349 6610 Phase Rotation Meter, 75 to 1000 VAC: Electrical Equipment: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


AEMC - 2004349 6610 Phase Rotation Meter, 75 to 1000 VAC: Electrical Equipment: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

I have the ideal. It works fine. I havent successfully used it to check a motor so I don't have a comment on that. I do like the non contact one that MotoGP posted. I wouldn't mind having that one.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I've had this one for about 5 years. Non contact and works great. You just clip it on the outside of the wire insulation. It confirms each phase has power as well.
> 
> *AEMC - 2004349 6610 Phase Rotation Meter, 75 to 1000 VAC*
> 
> ...











Knopp Phase Sequence Indicator - TESCO - The Eastern Specialty Company


Use of the Knopp K-3 Phase Sequence Indicator saves man-hours and protects valuable equipment against damage. It pays for itself in a short time.




www.tescometering.com





I already have a Knopp phase rotation meter and I really don’t need another style. 
I want a reliable meter to predict motor rotation.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Forge Boyz said:


> I have the ideal. It works fine. I havent successfully used it to check a motor so I don't have a comment on that. I do like the non contact one that MotoGP posted. I wouldn't mind having that one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I have one too. I used it on a motor once, so long ago I can't remember the details so I guess it worked?


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

I deal with a lot of pumps that can spin there rotor off when run backwards but are to small to have back stops. 

I use the older version which works great but its a bit dodgy as you have to swap the leads or it might do something bad (never did it wrong to find out what all the warning are going on about)
First thing to do is tape BOY on the leads as there colors never made sense for the US market. 

200 seems steep but i guess that's inflation. I wish the greenlee 5124 had more info as it seems to be the same idea as the ideal but cheaper. If they had added the greenlee 5712 contactless live rotation sensor feature that would have been a must buy.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

That’s the one I have works good. I mostly just use the fluke t+ pro now


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

That's the only one we use anymore. The motor check is very handy for pumps, compressors, blowers.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Take a look at the Amprobe PR6.

Overall I like the concept. The biggest problem is that the older ones had 2 meters, one for line and one for motor. They would easily get destroyed because the motor side one would blow up if you put it on line power. And of course they looked almost identical.

To be honest though I work for a motor shop so you would think we use these on every job. The truth is we rarely use them. On a lot of equipment you need the coupling off just to spin the motor to use it, so at that point why bother? On the ones where it makes sense to use it you have to somehow rig things up to test the starter/drive side while energized. And honestly I’ve never once run into a situation where you can’t bump test. Spinning off the impeller is theoretically true but if it has been run once it’s not coming off without removing the locking ring and even if it’s all new I haven’t seen this actually happen. So the meter just adds time onto the job and we don’t use them. Plus company policy is to make the customer verify rotation so it’s not our responsibility to even need the meter. Most contractors do this for obvious reasons.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

In all my time in the field I have never bought one. I have always been able to see the rotation. 
I have worked with guys that had them and companies that there was one in the tool crib. 

May be I should get out more and expand my horizons. To me $200 bucks is a lot of cash for something I would not use once a week. 

In today's world non contact would be superior to working hot. So many places have issues with hot measurements. Besides if there is a tool that keeps you safer then I would consider it. 
Do not forget the case to keep it clean and safe.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

i personally hook up 40 inch diameter direct driven fan motors in a kiln, due to motor replacement
they are inside the kiln mounted on a catwalk at the peak
currently my only means of checking rotation is go look at it, and of course the kiln has to be down for that
it is very seldom down when they call me to hook it up

there for i am VERY interested in this thread
i have been considering buying one for a year or two


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I can't help much, mine is homebuilt.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

micromind said:


> I can't help much, mine is homebuilt.


 For phase rotation identification or motor rotation identification? What is your setup, and do you have any pictures?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

MotoGP1199 said:


> For phase rotation identification or motor rotation identification? What is your setup, and do you have any pictures?


This 👆


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

SWDweller said:


> In all my time in the field I have never bought one. I have always been able to see the rotation.
> I have worked with guys that had them and companies that there was one in the tool crib.
> 
> May be I should get out more and expand my horizons. To me $200 bucks is a lot of cash for something I would not use once a week.
> ...


How do you change services then ? Go to the roof and check the rooftop ?


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Honestly the fluke t+ pro is good enough for. OST just gotta remember which way u hooked it up before you swap the load


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

MotoGP1199 said:


> For phase rotation identification or motor rotation identification? What is your setup, and do you have any pictures?


phase and motor
no pics
mcc starters, 480 3p, 
i get called to check and see if any of them are not running and why
i test and either get the motor running or condemn it
later they swap it out
i am not the one who removes or installs the motors
even later they call me to hook it back up, sometimes the kiln is down but not always

all the motor leads are extra long high temp wire with no wire no.s or other id
the wires are pushed up through the roof penetrating conduit into an over size LB above the roof and connected to the t-leads there
impossible to determine rotation by sight


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

it just occured to me ....

if the kiln is running then the fan may or may not be spinning due to the air moving from the other fans (all of them are lined up side by side down the full length of the kiln)
and it may be spinning forward or backward

and i still cant look at it to find out
so the meter would not help unless motor rotation was checked before installing it

guess i dont need it after all


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> it just occured to me ....
> 
> if the kiln is running then the fan may or may not be spinning due to the air moving from the other fans (all of them are lined up side by side down the full length of the kiln)
> and it may be spinning forward or backward
> ...


In that situation, a tong meter test will tell you if it’s right. A reverse running centrifugal fan won’t move much air, and current will be low.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

460 Delta said:


> In that situation, a tong meter test will tell you if it’s right. A reverse running centrifugal fan won’t move much air, and current will be low.


they all have reversing starters
they all run in forward then reverse 3 hrs at a time alternating thru the whole kiln cycle which lasts several days

they do move a lot of air in reverse
they all pull about the same amps in forward or reverse

they are all lined up side by side just inches apart thru the length of the kiln
they all blow in the same direction at the same time

i have no way of knowing whether the air flow circulates backward or gets carried along forward thru a fan that is not powered
no amount of testing has told me in the past, i dont expect it to in the future


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

Still have to spin the motor for it to indicate?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

my biggest problem is that i dont know

A) is it spinning
B) is it forward or backward to the others that are running

if could rely on it spinning one way or the other
then i could use a meter and hook it up


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

paulengr said:


> Take a look at the Amprobe PR6.
> 
> Overall I like the concept. The biggest problem is that the older ones had 2 meters, one for line and one for motor. They would easily get destroyed because the motor side one would blow up if you put it on line power. And of course they looked almost identical.
> 
> To be honest though I work for a motor shop so you would think we use these on every job. The truth is we rarely use them. On a lot of equipment you need the coupling off just to spin the motor to use it, so at that point why bother? On the ones where it makes sense to use it you have to somehow rig things up to test the starter/drive side while energized. And honestly I’ve never once run into a situation where you can’t bump test. Spinning off the impeller is theoretically true but if it has been run once it’s not coming off without removing the locking ring and even if it’s all new I haven’t seen this actually happen. So the meter just adds time onto the job and we don’t use them. Plus company policy is to make the customer verify rotation so it’s not our responsibility to even need the meter. Most contractors do this for obvious reasons.


I have seen maintenance spin the impeller off on new condensate pumps, not once but twice in a row . They bumped them and instant bam shattered impeller. They checked against original one and was wired the same, it turns out a motor shop rewired the old one and marked L1,L2,L3 wrong.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> my biggest problem is that i dont know
> 
> A) is it spinning
> B) is it forward or backward to the others that are running
> ...


Buy the fluke. Hold it against side of motor casing and it will tell you which way its running


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

gpop said:


> Buy the fluke. Hold it against side of motor casing and it will tell you which way its running


SMH ...... you didnt read the whole thing

the motor is not accessible while running


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> SMH ...... you didnt read the whole thing
> 
> the motor is not accessible while running


Our furnace motors you could still get to the body of the motor. Would be interesting to see a pic


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

micromind said:


> I can't help much, mine is homebuilt.


It's been so long ago that I can only remember fragments of its design and construction. I don't know how to post pics.

If I remember, it started out as connecting a basic 3Ø motor to an oscilloscope, introducing a small DC current to T1 and T3 and looking at voltage on T2 as the shaft was turned. Turning it in one direction would move a wave closer to T1, the other, T3. It took a lot of tweaking and several 'I give ups' to get the wave to be useable in triggering a latching gate. 

So I built it on a breadboard (plastic with small holes punched in it). It uses a 9 volt battery, 3 LEDS and a NO pushbutton. 

Back then, I was into etching my own PC boards. The first one didn't work but I found my mistake. 

I mounted it in a 2" X 3" project box with an aluminum cover, drilled holes in said cover so the LEDS would stick out, drilled another hole for the 3 wires to exit the plastic box and you had to take the cover off in order to change the battery. 

The left LED is ABC, center is Batt OK, right is CBA. The 3 leads were simply black, red, blue test lead wire. 

It's not always accurate, you need to make several tests to get consistent results and if there's no residual magnetism in the motor, it doesn't work at all.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> I have seen maintenance spin the impeller off on new condensate pumps, not once but twice in a row . They bumped them and instant bam shattered impeller. They checked against original one and was wired the same, it turns out a motor shop rewired the old one and marked L1,L2,L3 wrong.



Never shattered a impeller but they have torn up the threads on the shaft when the impeller hit the face plate. 
Worse pump to run backwards was the 5 to 10hp shaft drive pit pumps as the shafts would drop into the pit. Real pain trying to fish out a stainless pump shaft from a flooded pit. 20hp and above all had back locks on the motors.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

gpop said:


> Our furnace motors you could still get to the body of the motor. Would be interesting to see a pic


i dont have pics
there is a row of fans lined up side by side (only inches apart) running the length of the ridge and all the way up to the top of the ridge
the fan blade is mounted on the motor shaft
you cannot see or access any part of the fan or motor while the kiln is running


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Almost Retired said:


> i personally hook up 40 inch diameter direct driven fan motors in a kiln, due to motor replacement
> they are inside the kiln mounted on a catwalk at the peak
> currently my only means of checking rotation is go look at it, and of course the kiln has to be down for that
> it is very seldom down when they call me to hook it up
> ...


Keep in mind what non contact means. On the motor side there is enough residual magnetism in the rotor that when you rotate the shaft a tiny voltage appears on the leads. It’s an offline test. Unless it sits a long time or has never been run this test works.

The Amprobe works similar to using a magnehelic. It tells you rotation of an operating motor; useful when you can’t see it.

Another version uses CTs or field sensors to measure phase rotation on energized wiring. Hioki has one of these. Still need to energize wiring.

None of these might be what you need or want though. You are still phasing a motor then phasing energized lines. If you establish a “plant standard” on phase colors then you might only need to check the motor.

There is NO standard on this stuff. Even the engineers can’t agree on on how to identify rotation consistently.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

I pulled a little 480v submersible pump once because we noticed it was pumping way less than the second identical one. Got it out and the impeller was just swiss cheesed and about half missing. Bump tested it and it was running backwards and nobody can seem to remember who was the last one to change it and it's been running like that for years. Swapped the leads and dropped it back in the hole, impeller is shot but still moves water somehow so might as well get the rest of the life out of it.


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## Brianrayl (Oct 4, 2013)

460 Delta said:


> Has anyone used or own an Ideal 61-521? I’m considering dropping $200.00 on one and am interested in real world opinions. If it’s less than quality, I would like to know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


EBay 
*DEAL Electrical 61-521 3 Phase Motor Rotation Tester/600V/Carry Case*

*Seller Approved* by Fakespot Guard
Learn More


 4 product ratings


Condition:
NewNew


Price:
US $129.95

No Interest if paid in full in 6 mo on $99+*


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## psgama (Oct 26, 2015)

I have the amprobe PRM-6 works good. Make site buy one and spin the motor on the ground before it goes back in the kiln, phase tape the leads then send it up. As long as your site power is ABC Clockwise you're golden pony boy.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Amprobe PRM6 is on Amazan Day deal for $133 normally around $201


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