# junction box by recessed light .



## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

found this while repairing a fluorescent recessed light a couple days ago , is it code ?







4 square box next to the recessed .


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Debatable, yet i'm not big on those _"how would you know it's there? "_ JB's.....


~CS~


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Code doesn't say the first thing about being easy to find. I think by the definition of "Accessible" it's legal.

Personally, I'd avoid it if at all possible.

-John


----------



## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

It is more accessible than the POS j boxes that are on the cans.


----------



## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

can you install a JB over a flush mounted speaker then ?


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

french connection!! said:


> can you install a JB over a flush mounted speaker then ?


I would say yes in both cases. Doesn't have to be easy, just accessible. 
Although in new construction it's kinda hack.


----------



## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

yes it is hack and this is a 16 000 sq/ft 4 years old mansion with a lot of recessed .


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I've done it many times in old work. Sometimes cans are added to the project for the express reason of adding pull points and junction boxes. Accessible does not mean easy, fun, easy to find, accessible by people who are fat, accessible by people with big sausage fingers, or even accessible by the entire population of electricians. It just has to be "accessible". That could require tools to access, but it can't be in a place that causes damage to the finishes to access.


----------



## acslater (Feb 4, 2008)

by 314.29 I don't think that the wires inside the box are accessible , not trough a 6 in hole and with the box on the back. I doubt that any inspector will pass me with this type of installation.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

acslater said:


> by 314.29 I don't think that the wires inside the box are accessible , not trough a 6 in hole and with the box on the back. I doubt that any inspector will pass me with this type of installation.


Sure they are. Can you touch them? Then they are accessible. It will suck to work on, but nobody can say they aren't accessible.


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

french connection!! said:


> found this while repairing a fluorescent recessed light a couple days ago , is it code ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that can fed from the JB?


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I've done it many times in old work.


I do it all the time. Sometimes it's just _close_ to the opening. :whistling2:


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Probably some dumb ass wired it and didn't leave 3' of extra for when the owner wants them moved.


----------



## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

Little-Lectric said:


> Is that can fed from the JB?


no , the whole house is wire with mc and emt , no nm cable .


----------



## BEAMEUP (Sep 19, 2008)

I use to work for a kitchen/bath remodler and he would not want to open any wall/ceiling that he didnt have to. I have to admit I have done it, but didn't like it, but I would not anchor the box down and leave a few feet of wire so at least the next guy can pull it down and work on it and not have to shove his arms into a little hole.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Looks like that box is actually attached to something. That's a step further than I would probably go given the same scenario.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I've stashed doorbell transformers up there right on the rough work housing box. Now find that. Almost all my remods that have interwired floors will have splices in boxes next to a hihat. saves time and material in refeeding / extending existing.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Sure they are. Can you touch them? Then they are accessible. It will suck to work on, but nobody can say they aren't accessible.


Exactly that.

There is no requirement that it be easy, just possible.


----------



## Is this thing on? (Apr 30, 2020)

I know this is an old thread, but it looks like as of 2020 NEC, party's over, boys. 

"NEC 410.118 Access to Other Boxes. (Luminaires, Etc.)

Luminaires recessed in ceilings, floors, or walls shall not be used to access outlet, pull, or junction boxes or conduit bodies, unless the box or conduit body is an integral part of the listed luminaire'

This age old trick for remodels has officially come to an end. RIP, dear hidden junction boxes hidden above can lights. RIP.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

french connection!! said:


> can you install a JB over a flush mounted speaker then ?


Yes.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Is this thing on? said:


> I know this is an old thread, but it looks like as of 2020 NEC, party's over, boys.
> 
> "NEC 410.118 Access to Other Boxes. (Luminaires, Etc.)
> 
> ...


More bored idiots looking to get their name up there as the chief idiot who got a code rule added.

FWIW, when you put a junction box above a recessed light, do not mount it. Leave it loose so that you can pull the box down thru the hole to work on it.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> *More bored idiots looking to get their name up there as the chief idiot who got a code rule added.*
> 
> FWIW, when you put a junction box above a recessed light, do not mount it. Leave it loose so that you can pull the box down thru the hole to work on it.



TRUE DAT. I have said the same for years now.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I think I am going to be gleeful and proud when I purposefully and knowingly violate the 2020 NEC in this manner in the future on remodels. And on the ones that have to get an inspection, I'm just gonna pass on the job. There are tons of "folks" that are not interested in getting inspections on their remodel projects and they are my new target audience now. I'm at the age where I DON'T CARE what might get discovered by a building inspector 10 years from now...........

If it wasn't for the bored idiots who got this passed in the code I might have stayed on the straight and narrow path regarding the NEC, but nope, they insisted on turning the NEC into just a heap of rubbish on every count. Every single thing that makes things work in certain circumstances they insisted on finding and eliminating all in the name of pretended safety. Afci's were supposed to eliminate electrical fires from happening anyway according to all the dic heads who pushed for them to get into the code book, so concerns such as an innocent junction box above a recess light should actually have been declared a good and proper method by the code making panels..... 

With that in mind, I have decided the proper cable to use on all forthcoming electric ranges will be 8-3 cu nm from this point forward. With 50 amp breakers. Purposefully and willingly. Stacy has spoken!


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> With that in mind, I have decided the proper cable to use on all forthcoming electric ranges will be 8-3 cu nm from this point forward. With 50 amp breakers. Purposefully and willingly. Stacy has spoken!


8-3 romex costs more than #6 AL SER.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> 8-3 romex costs more than #6 AL SER.


Well, I'll go back to using that too. I have been putting in #4 al for ranges , but I'm on a mission now. I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back. :vs_mad:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Well, I'll go back to using that too. I have been putting in #4 al for ranges , but I'm on a mission now. I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back. :vs_mad:


Why #4? You are so silly. I forbid you from doing that again.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I had to get inspections and they looked for that. But even if I have to put one in for an inspection , I'll yank it out and replace it with #6 alum right after the guy drives off. I promise. It my new holy mission in life. And remove the afci's for the next job also. Cowabunga! F the New World Order!


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I had to get inspections and they looked for that. But even if I have to put one in for an inspection , I'll yank it out and replace it with #6 alum right after the guy drives off. I promise. It my new holy mission in life. And remove the afci's for the next job also. Cowabunga! F the New World Order!


#6 SER is code compliant for 50A. It's what all normal electrician use.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> #6 SER is code compliant for 50A. It's what all normal electrician use.


Not when it runs thru any thermal insulation, which ends up 99% of the ones I have to run. 338.10 (4) (a). 60c rated. 40 amps. Same as 8-3 NM.


----------

