# Dealing with inspectors



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I never argue with an inspector.. not worth it.. :no:

Just give them what they want and move on.. last thing you want is having a bunch of inspectors that get a woody every time one of your applications comes across their desk.. 

They will slow up the procedure and nit pick you to death.. take the high road .. :thumbsup:

I would rather pick my battles as I have done in the past.. :whistling2::laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Just politely ask for a code reference.


----------



## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

if they can't site a nec section, it does not get changed. period. There is a right and a wrong way to go about this. I have never had a inspector hold a grudge against me for doing this and i actually had one that would call every now and then and ask for interpretations.


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*C n D*

Have a box of crispy cremes ready and some freshly brewed coffee. Smile, don't talk much and do whatever he wants (to a point). :thumbup:

Once you get to know him, it doesn't hurt dropping baseball or football tickets on the floor...:whistling2:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Went down this road a few days ago.  He was wrong, no matter how many times he said he wasn't didn't change the fact. :whistling2: 

For me it's simple, before I argue, I make damn sure I am correct in what I m saying. It's pretty rare but sometimes it happens.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

B4T said:


> I never argue with an inspector.. not worth it.. :no:
> 
> I never argue with an inspector.. not worth it.. . last thing you want is having a bunch of inspectors that get a woody every time one of your applications comes across their desk..
> 
> ...



1- I never argue with an inspector.. not worth it..

Depends on the discussion. Never argue. Discussions are worth it.

2- Just give them what they want and move on.

Your kidding,Right? Wonder why they have a power trip?
From you- I am just.....Dahhh... Ask for the reference-Nicely.


3- last thing you want is having a bunch of inspectors that get a woody every time one of your applications comes across their desk..

Thats EXACTLY what you want!! That way they KNOW, YOU KNOW what you are doing. OMG- You can make them look good. and then they bust your less knowledgeable competition.

4- They will slow up the procedure and nit pick you to death.

Not if you do it correctly. AND THEY KNOW THAT YOU KNOW !!!

5- Just send them a check,they won't show up and will sign.
(That don't work anymore) Nor should it.

(I will qualify this- If it takes 3 min. and cost no more time/money- OK. Have at it. I'll Puff their butt. More than that- PROVE/SUPPORT the dispute.)


----------



## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

So if they cannot give you a code reference then you don't have to change it right?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Wireman191 said:


> So if they cannot give you a code reference then you don't have to change it right?


Inspectors can only enforce the rules adopted by the AHJ. They cannot make up 'shirt-pocket' rules to satisfy their ego trips.

They must either provide you with a code reference (maybe not right on the spot, but they should be able to eventually provide one), or pass the work. Hand 'em your copy of the NEC and ask they open it up.

Inspectors are enforcement officers, just like police officers. Cops cannot make up their own laws either.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Inspectors can only enforce the rules adopted by the AHJ. They cannot make up 'shirt-pocket' rules to satisfy their ego trips.
> 
> They must either provide you with a code reference (maybe not right on the spot, but they should be able to eventually provide one), or pass the work. Hand 'em your copy of the NEC and ask they open it up.
> 
> Inspectors are enforcement officers, just like police officers. Cops cannot make up their own laws either.



Nice!!! Just be careful what you wish for.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Inspectors can only enforce the rules adopted by the AHJ. They cannot make up 'shirt-pocket' rules to satisfy their ego trips.
> 
> They must either provide you with a code reference (maybe not right on the spot, but they should be able to eventually provide one), or pass the work. Hand 'em your copy of the NEC and ask they open it up.
> 
> Inspectors are enforcement officers, just like police officers. Cops cannot make up their own laws either.


Except that might be how it works someplaces, but in others it don't fly. No matter how high up the chain you try, unless the mayor is your uncle.
I know of one specific place where you will hear something to the effect - "We grew here, you flew here" and that makes them right about everything.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Except that might be how it works someplaces, but in others it don't fly. No matter how high up the chain you try, unless the mayor is your uncle.
> I know of one specific place where you will hear something to the effect - "We grew here, you flew here" and that makes them right about everything.


Too bad you work in Mafialand.




leland said:


> Nice!!! Just be careful what you wish for.


It don't scare me none.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

leland said:


> 1- I never argue with an inspector.. not worth it..
> 
> Depends on the discussion. Never argue. Discussions are worth it.
> 
> ...


Many years ago I had an inspector who had it "in " for me.. there was no going around him..

My applications got lost in the mail and it took for ever to get a final inspection done..

This was the NY Board of Fire Underwritters.. for many years.. the only inspection agency.. now they are gone.. belly up because of competition from other agencies doing inspections and EC's like me they pissed off..

I have been there trying to fight with these guys and I stand by my post..

In the last (25) years I have never had a problem with any inspector or failed an inspection.. :thumbup:


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I maintain a professional relationship with the inspectors. Haven't had any major issues with them.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Wireman191 said:


> When do you choose to argue with them, How do you deal with them telling you it needs to be this way when it is there option, nothing to do with the NEC.
> Had a conversation with a co worker that told me to argue would have been dragged out for three months so it was easier just to change it.
> I have not been in this situation yet, just want to know how to tactfully handle it.


First thing is be there on time for the inspection take the time to shake his hand and say hello look at the car or truck he pulled up in and ask him what he thinks of it ,The purpose of that is to start a friendly conversation with him you want to put the man at ease so he knows you will not be hostile and disrespectful.

Have some basic tools on you side cutters and screw drivers in case he wants you to open stuff up.

Make sure all your work looks good the better it look the less inspecting he will do .

Tell him about the job and how it went,Remember he is an Electrician just like you and he is fully aware about how Electrical Inspectors are talked about behind their backs if he thinks you do not respect him he will not respect you.

If he gives you a hard time after that Drop the gloves and beat the god dam hell out of him...:laughing:


----------



## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> If he gives you a hard time after that Drop the gloves and beat the god dam hell out of him...:laughing:


:thumbup:


----------



## LightsOn81 (Jan 6, 2012)

I was duct taping floor boxes with some UNC tar heel duct tape and the inspector saw that we were on the same team so he says, " UNC tape?! I don't have to see anything else. Go ahead and pour it!" if only it were really that easy. It was all done right but he looked ato it for about 10 minutes and called it good


----------



## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Thanks guys.
We have a very good relationship with most the inspectors in this area, and I'm very happy about that.
Just nice to be prepared for when, if it ever happens to be an issue.:thumbsup:


----------



## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

B4T said:


> I never argue with an inspector.. not worth it.. :no:
> 
> Just give them what they want and move on.. last thing you want is having a bunch of inspectors that get a woody every time one of your applications comes across their desk..
> 
> ...


:no:  This is exactly why some inspectors act the way they do! 
You roll over and play dead like a nice little puppy !
I've posted it before and will post it again -
The best way to deal with the situation is:
1) Be informed - Know what your talking about 100%
2) remain calm
3) BE POLITE - The inspector is person just like you
4) calmly ask why? where? what? - Give the inspector a chance to explain it/prove it
5) Have the code edition being enforced - ask for the code reference

The key is remain calm and maintain a professional attitude. 
I am an inspector and if you start to rant and rave at me I will shut up until your done, then ask if we can discuss this in a professional polite manner. You start ranting and yelling - I walk out. I am not require to be yelled at.
I call my superiors and report the situation and move on. I will follow up with you or your office later in the day or the next day.
Keep in mind most inspectors have many years in the field prior to becoming an inspector. 
As an inspector - I do not fail your job, You fail your job. I only inspect the NEC and the local admendments


----------



## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

The question that sparked this was off another thread I posted.
The guy told me inspector made him change #8 wire out to B,O,Y instead of using tape to phase them.
I asked the question on here and it only applied to Grounded/grounding conductors. So I asked him why he didn't ask for a code reference on it, He said it was was not worth the hassle to argue the fact, Well with copper prices now and the labor involved to re-pull the wire I think It wound have been a time to argue that he was misinterpreting the code.
He then said, Well the AJH can interpret the code to make it that way, How? No answer, just came back to it was wasn't worth the trouble.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Wireman191 said:


> The question that sparked this was off another thread I posted.
> The guy told me inspector made him change #8 wire out to B,O,Y instead of using tape to phase them.
> I asked the question on here and it only applied to Grounded/grounding conductors. So I asked him why he didn't ask for a code reference on it, He said it was was not worth the hassle to argue the fact, Well with copper prices now and the labor involved to re-pull the wire I think It wound have been a time to argue that he was misinterpreting the code.
> He then said, Well the AJH can interpret the code to make it that way, How? No answer, just came back to it was wasn't worth the trouble.


The AHJ can make interpretations. But in most cases, the inspector is not the AHJ.


----------



## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

480sparky said:


> The AHJ can make interpretations. But in most cases, the inspector is not the AHJ.


 Technicality's.:laughing:
The point is he said it would not be passed till the wire was changed out.
How would you deal with that on the spot to have it passed without much hassle. Is it as simple as, "Here is the code book, Point me to article stating this please"?


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Real*



Chris1971 said:


> I maintain a professional relationship with the inspectors. Haven't had any major issues with them.


Can you translate that into a real life case example? Yes sir no sire? All business and no small talk? Give us a typical conversation. How would being unprofessional differ ? 

Just askin


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> :no:  This is exactly why some inspectors act the way they do!
> You roll over and play dead like a nice little puppy !
> I've posted it before and will post it again -
> The best way to deal with the situation is:
> ...


Now this sounds like how it should ought to be. If the whole world were only so prof. Three days ago I had a dwelling rough in inspection where I got informed that no counter outlets are allowed to be on the circuit with the refrigerator. (by the way its not really something I do often anyway , but in this case it made good sense to do it.) I politely replied that it would be true if I ran a 15 amp circuit for the fridge, but it was a 20 amp small appliance counter outlet circuit with one receptacle and the fridge total. Once I made that polite reply, guess who did the yelling, and it wasn't me....

By the way the only local amendment we have is the deletion of annex 80, otherwise the 2008 edition of the NEC is the code adopted.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> Now this sounds like how it should ought to be. If the whole world were only so prof. Three days ago I had a dwelling rough in inspection where I got informed that no counter outlets are allowed to be on the circuit with the refrigerator. (by the way its not really something I do often anyway , but in this case it made good sense to do it.) I politely replied that it would be true if I ran a 15 amp circuit for the fridge, but it was a 20 amp small appliance counter outlet circuit with one receptacle and the fridge total. Once I made that polite reply, guess who did the yelling, and it wasn't me....
> 
> By the way the only local amendment we have is the deletion of annex 80, otherwise the 2008 edition of the NEC is the code adopted.


You guys need to catch up to the 2011 NEC..


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> .......By the way the only local amendment we have is the deletion of annex 80, otherwise the 2008 edition of the NEC is the code adopted.



Typically, the annexes are not considered part of the NEC and usually must be adopted by specific reference.


----------



## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

I try to get along,learn something also.If they want something changed 
They can write it on permit.Do the corrections that it.
My main concern is custumer safety.
Although once they wanted me to reframe where I replaced meter main it was dry rought ,I said home owner needs to get carpenter inpector agreed.
The custumer didnt like that I said dont shoot the messenger
plus I told her you dont want your wall falling down 
and that it was good they could correct it.Come to think of
it that happened more than once,no wonder why the meter mains is full of water and a rust bucket.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Austerity here is creating an inspection situation less than it's past efficacy

we have to wait longer for inspections/inspectors, they have less on site time, and in numerous instances we have public buildings occupied _years _without a final

say what you will about our inspection contingent, without them there is no professional benchmark _maintained_, and the hacks will eat up anyone with a lick of integrity _alive_....

~CS~


----------



## MasterE (Dec 31, 2011)

mbednarik said:


> if they can't site a nec section, it does not get changed. period. There is a right and a wrong way to go about this. I have never had a inspector hold a grudge against me for doing this and i actually had one that would call every now and then and ask for interpretations.


Don't for get State and local code.


----------



## cccp sparky (Nov 5, 2011)

I never an argue with an inspectors. If small items, concede defeat. If a large items, make known financials impact.


----------



## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

cccp sparky said:


> I never an argue with an inspectors. If small items, concede defeat. If a large items, make known financials impact.


 Your broken English makes sense.


----------



## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Wireman191 said:


> Your broken English makes sense.


Does anything miller ever say or do make sense?

He is just a bipolar troll on LSD and crack, and I don't mean the kinda crack people smoke!


----------



## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Does anything miller ever say or do make sense?
> 
> He is just a bipolar troll on LSD and crack, and I don't mean the kinda crack people smoke!


 :laughing:


----------



## cccp sparky (Nov 5, 2011)

I come defending a reputation of the sparkys from a CCCP. Many a electrician in the Russia did work with the inferior materials and not many tools. However, we still builded some impressive infrastructures with the superior crafts knowledges.


----------



## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

cccp sparky said:


> I come defending a reputation of the sparkys from a CCCP. Many a electrician in the Russia did work with the inferior materials and not many tools. However, we still builded some impressive infrastructures with the superior crafts knowledges.


So now your trying to be like double oh?

Cccp sparky= miller exe from the xxxxxxxxxx.

They guy that got banned on here and started his own forum to troll this place, with his secret troll forum known as the " troll plaza"


----------



## Let's_talk_electric (Mar 20, 2012)

*Arguing...*

Well, I'm new to being an electrician. I'm still in school. However, as for myself; I wouldn't argue with them. I'd yes them to death simply smiling away. That'll get to them more.


----------



## wesleydnunder (Mar 19, 2012)

I've been on both sides of this fence. I was in the field for 30+ years and have been an inspector for the last 5 yrs.

Typically, if I have someone change what they've done, I'll cite them the appropriate code or local ordinance to back it up. I don't profess to know everything and have been challenged several times. If the electrician can show me in the code or ordinance where he is correct, I'll back off the ruling and thank him for the learning experience. If he can't, he'll amend his work.

I treat all the same, local shops and out-of-towners. 

I give the electrician the rspect due him and insist on the same. If they get abusive, I walk off and go to my next inspection. I really try not to hold grudges...everyone has a bad day from time to time and even a guy who snarls all through the inspection may be a great guy, just having a bad day.

My advice in dealing with inspectors is similar to that in an earlier post:
Be calm and polite
Ask for him to show you a particular NEC reference or city ordinance.
Don't be afraid to stick by your guns if you can give proof that your work meets or exceeds the requirements

Mark


----------



## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Let's_talk_electric said:


> Well, I'm new to being an electrician. I'm still in school. However, as for myself; I wouldn't argue with them. I'd yes them to death simply smiling away. That'll get to them more.


In reality the inspector most likely will walk from you thinking your either an idiot or a plain old ass kisser. Neither of which they like to deal with. 


I would much rather a contractor ask questions instead of rolling over.
I have a number of large projects in my inspection area. The foremen and project managers on those projects call me to discuss things as they progress. I have had many on site meetings with contractors just to assist them.

Remember that the inspector can be a great asset to have on your side.
I have been known to drop the code book on the desk of the general contractors and explain why they will or will not do things. My contractors know they can discuss anything with me.


----------



## Restoration (Jan 12, 2012)

manchestersparky said:


> In reality the inspector most likely will walk from you thinking your either an idiot or a plain old ass kisser. Neither of which they like to deal with.


Exactly!

Consistency is my problem. I almost hate the guy who hands you the ticket from inside his truck. The guy who brings out a tester and makes you open up boxes or asks you to provide your calculations is much more of a challange.


----------



## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

we had an inspector once that failed a job by making up code , he made us lost days of work and money , so then we had his boss on the job to proof him he was wrong and his boss agreed , so since then we required not to have that inspector on any of our job .


----------

