# Noob!



## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

What's up?!? I'm 26 years old from So Ill. I've worked construction since I was 16. Got an associates in Construction Management. I'm currently my boss's lead guy. Haven't really taken very many electrical classes. Watched the electrician we used make his mistakes here and there, asked questions and basically learned by 'Watching over my shoulder'. 3 years ago I told my boss I felt that I could wire a better house than the ex union electrician we were using. He gave me a chance, and we have never looked back. Had a problem with my first 3 way switch and After that it's been smooth sailing. I'd like to think I'm pretty neat at what I do. But very interested in this forum and gettin more advice on what everyone else does!


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

Have you ever considered your not well enough educated as an electrician to even understand the ways you are risking the lives of the people who were defrauded into hiring you as an electrician? Have you considered when you do kill someone you will personaly go to jail?


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Ultrafault said:


> Have you ever considered your not well enough educated as an electrician to even understand the ways you are risking the lives of the people who were defrauded into hiring you as an electrician? Have you considered when you do kill someone you will personaly go to jail?


I smell a troll, I wouldn't get too worked up over nothing.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

First post, _I am better than an electrician ....._ :laughing:


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I doubt troll.
Just a noob in the electrical field that overdid what work the person his company had been using. He found this forum and decided to "chest beat". All good.
Let's see where this goes.


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

Bunch of haters in here lol gosh. First things first, I'm licensed, insured, and bonded. 2nd I'm a residential electrician. And let's be real, residential is about as easy as it gets. 200 amp services MAYBE a 320 once every 2 years. And let's be clear about that ex union electrician I spoke of.....20 amp crkt, 27 outlets plus lighting load.......are the haters getting the picture now? How about the ex union electrician 'daisy chaining' outlets together with 14-2 in the middle of 12-2 just as randomly as the wind blows. I'm not interested in anything other than residential. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes but seems like they don't mind step'n on mine. Residential is as easy as it gets. And if there are any questions, yea the NEC book is big, but it's not hard to look things up. Still here to try and learn. Sorry if I came across wrong.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Mixing 12 and 14 is only hack if its not protected by the proper OCPD. 

As for number of receptacles on a circuit, my memory is a little foggy... Can you cite me the Article where it gives us the maximum allowance?


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

Mixing 12 and 14 is skank period. And to be quite honest with you I absolutely can not because my book is at the office (typical I know), but if it would make ya feel better ill look it up first thing . I've never put over 13 on a crkt plus light load. Which typically is a ceiling fan. Keep it comin fellas lol


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> As for number of receptacles on a circuit, my memory is a little foggy... Can you cite me the Article where it gives us the maximum allowance?


It's not in the code. There is no limit on general use residential circuits.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> It's not in the code. There is no limit on general use residential circuits.


I know this, I was making a point. Thanks for blowing my cover. :jester:


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

You guys just saved me a bunch of money, I'll put all my outlets on 1 crkt now since there's no limit.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

southernelectric30 said:


> You guys just saved me a bunch of money, I'll put all my outlets on 1 crkt now since there's no limit.


I'm going with that you have no clue how wrong you are here.

You can amaze us all with your vast knowledge of residential wiring by citing the Article located here:

View the 2011 edition online


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

southernelectric30 said:


> You guys just saved me a bunch of money, I'll put all my outlets on 1 crkt now since there's no limit.


Code says you can't.


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

Celtic said:


> I'm going with that you have no clue how wrong you are here.
> 
> You can amaze us all with your vast knowledge of residential wiring by citing the Article located here:
> 
> View the 2011 edition online


Bunch of stiffs in here holly hell! Lol do you have to be an architect or engineer to build a house? No. Face it. Residential electric is as easy as it gets. Never claimed I was a journeyman or anything like that. Residential houses. Hate as much as you want. Residential is residential.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

southernelectric30 said:


> Bunch of stiffs in here ...


Not really

We have just seen your type of "electrician" many times and already know what you are about.

Here is your opportunity to redeem yourself a little bit...



southernelectric30 said:


> ... I absolutely can not because my book is at the office (typical I know)....


I provided you with a link...

Put up or shut up.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)




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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

Celtic said:


> Not really
> 
> We have just seen your type of "electrician" many times and already know what you are about.
> 
> ...


I'll shutup till I put up in the morning. Fair nuff. But do explain 'what I'm about'


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

southernelectric30 said:


> I'll shutup till I put up in the morning. Fair nuff. But do explain 'what I'm about'


You have link to the NEC online...why wait until the morning?


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Two ways to steal from someone...

1. With ur hands
2. With ur eyes!


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

we mix 12 and 14 all the time in long runs...


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

New residential may be easy. But try trouble shooting . . Or high dollar new homes with elevators and saunas and all that good stuff.

These guys only ragging on you because you act like your so great. When in reality nobody is that great.

Even if you do residential for the rest of your life you will never know it all.

Try commercial or industrial a lot of cool stuff there, you got to broaden your horizons to be a well rounded electrician.

Don't take it personal, this forum has made me very knowledgeable about the trade. I may not post much but I'm on here every day.

Try reading posts before you actually post something like this.


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## big vic (Jan 23, 2012)

Southernelectric please post some photos of your work. Rough in photos can tell us a lot. Does Illinois give out "Watching over your shoulder" licenses


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## knowledge29 (Nov 6, 2010)

sounds to me like this guy knows it all. Maybe we should go to him next time we have residential questions. With all of his maybe 5 years experience!...there is much more to this trade then residential. Enjoy the forum and learn from the rest...


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

What are the license requirements for Illinois?


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

My uncle is a gc out in mt vernon illinois, i know for a fact nothing is inspected


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

big vic said:


> Southernelectric please post some photos of your work. Rough in photos can tell us a lot. Does Illinois give out "Watching over your shoulder" licenses


Sure doesn't. Wasn't tryin to say it did. I see now it's a rough crowd here. Just tryin to say I can multitask and catch on with no verbal direction. I use a 1/2 in nm wire staple 8'' within top of box, one half way up, and 1 8" from hole in top plate. If I do a service disconnect, I run the line into the panel through 2 1/2 sch 80. I'll try and post a pic of a panel I wired today.


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

I typed a whole wonderfull sarcastic comment got depressed by how much this guy knows better than us and now I am only leaving this.....

Shoot how did it turn sarcastic again.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I hope you look as dumb as you sound. The world needs people like you


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)




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## Sparky Cobb (May 14, 2012)

Zip ties, a true sign of a pro. Need to color those whites that are used as hots.


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## redsox98 (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm confused. The kid comes in on his first post and compliments this forum and you ass clowns jump down his throat! Talk about a bunch of clicky bitches!! Oh my god someone has less than 3000 posts here (you guys must sit in a office all day and jack off to each other on this site) lets jump him! Mods consider this my last post and please delete my account. I check this site one a week and honestly its turned into a "hey look at this hack job" forum.


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

Sparky Cobb said:


> Zip ties, a true sign of a pro. Need to color those whites that are used as hots.


Guess I should tear it all out and start over


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## Ultrafault (Dec 16, 2012)

redsox98 said:


> I'm confused. The kid comes in on his first post and compliments this forum and you ass clowns jump down his throat! Talk about a bunch of clicky bitches!! Oh my god someone has less than 3000 posts here (you guys must sit in a office all day and jack off to each other on this site) lets jump him! Mods consider this my last post and please delete my account. I check this site one a week and honestly its turned into a "hey look at this hack job" forum.


In my opinion he came here and devalued our profession by stating that it could be learned by watching over someone elses shoulder. I dont have many posts at all but have been treated with respect. Except for that time someone thought I was rewire.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

redsox98 said:


> I'm confused. The kid comes in on his first post and compliments this forum and you ass clowns jump down his throat! Talk about a bunch of clicky bitches!! Oh my god someone has less than 3000 posts here (you guys must sit in a office all day and jack off to each other on this site) lets jump him! Mods consider this my last post and please delete my account. I check this site one a week and honestly its turned into a "hey look at this hack job" forum.


Read his original post again. He basically walked in and implied any untrained hack without any legitimate training can be the greatest electrician known to mankind. It has nothing to do with being "clicky bitches" but instead having a bit of restraint and maybe a bit of (god forbid) respect for the skills and abilities of the members of this forum.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

southernelectric30 said:


> Bunch of stiffs in here holly hell! Lol do you have to be an architect or engineer to build a house? No. Face it. Residential electric is as easy as it gets. Never claimed I was a journeyman or anything like that. Residential houses. Hate as much as you want. Residential is residential.


Residential is by far nothing compared to industrial. Industrial is nothing compared to res, but I will admit I'm horrible at res. . I only do industrial and still give props to res. guys. Your ******** dude.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

smiley mcrib said:


> New residential may be easy. But try trouble shooting . . Or high dollar new homes with elevators and saunas and all that good stuff.
> 
> These guys only ragging on you because you act like your so great. When in reality nobody is that great.
> 
> ...



Nice


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Sparky Cobb said:


> Zip ties, a true sign of a pro. Need to color those whites that are used as hots.


Noob is getting the 3rd degree...lol


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

Ultrafault said:


> In my opinion he came here and devalued our profession by stating that it could be learned by watching over someone elses shoulder. I dont have many posts at all but have been treated with respect. Except for that time someone thought I was rewire.



That's exactly what I'm sayin. Anyone with some common sense can catch on with ease, it's repetitive work. And this is exactly how the ex union electrician acted. Residential is as easy as it gets. Commercial and industrial work is a much larger beast. But don't hate on the young guy just cause he has obviously caught on a lot faster than what most of you have. Classes, countless hours of bein the 'green guy.' I'm not trying to belittle it, but at the same time it doesn't need to be glorified beyond what it is. It's a trait. Anyone can learn it. Everyone who took offense to my first post, oh well. Sounds like people like to hate on the young successful guy. I'm here to learn from OTHER people's mistakes. So please, keep posting


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## big vic (Jan 23, 2012)

Do you always take photos of your work everyday? Or is it photoshop?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

southernelectric30 said:


> That's exactly what I'm sayin. Anyone with some common sense can catch on with ease, it's repetitive work.


I agree, any one with common sense should be able to learn how to do electrical work.


southernelectric30 said:


> But don't hate on the young guy just cause he has obviously caught on a lot faster than what most of you have.


Pushing your opinion as fact? "Chest beating"



southernelectric30 said:


> Anyone can learn it.


First is was 


southernelectric30 said:


> Anyone with some common sense can catch on with ease, it's repetitive work.


Is this one of those fish stories where the fish keeps getting bigger?


While to you, me, and maybe most on this forum think that this work is easy to pick up on, not everyone can do this. You can teach a drunk monkey to sling wire, but it takes brains to troubleshoot, design an installation, ect, ect.

Welcome to the forum, just remember you walked into an already occupied sandbox and have already started bowing up. Expect to be put in your place by those more experienced than you.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

yall are getting trolled so hard right now


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

big vic said:


> Do you always take photos of your work everyday? Or is it photoshop?


Don't hate. In the rough-in stage of wiring a duplex. Someone asked for a pic of the work. Pic given. If its good, it's good. If not. Let me know what's up


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

aftershockews said:


> I agree, any one with common sense should be able to learn how to do electrical work.
> 
> Pushing your opinion as fact? "Chest beating"
> 
> ...


I want em to put me in my place. Cause that shows where they stand. And maybe not that person specifically, but that's the position I'm aiming for. Troll comments are just people hating. What else is new. Most of em are prolly 'titty fed' electricians from dad or grandpa. In which case that's fine.


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> yall are getting trolled so hard right now


It's not troll so hard. It's ball so hard. Enjoy that milk


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## big vic (Jan 23, 2012)

How about some photos of the metering of that duplex


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

It sounds to me that this guy possesses reasonably high intelligence and has good physical skills. I can see someone feeling like they can wire a house after watching/helping for a house or two, and with some oversight they can probably do a good job. It's when the oversight is gone and there is no one to call and ask if you are doing it correctly that it gets interesting.

To the OP, what size SEU cable does the NEC require to 100-amp, 120/240-volt sub panel in a house?

(Yes, although I don't do residential, *I understand *my question, let's wait to see if the OP can answer it before the forum jumps all over this question).


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

big vic said:


> How about some photos of the metering of that duplex


Be over there later this afternoon and I'll post it on here.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

southernelectric30 said:


> It's not troll so hard. It's ball so hard. Enjoy that milk


Straight up holmes. They all be h8n. You keep on ballin though making that easy money


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

southernelectric30 said:


> I want em to put me in my place. Cause that shows where they stand. And maybe not that person specifically, but that's the position I'm aiming for. Troll comments are just people hating. What else is new. Most of em are prolly 'titty fed' electricians from dad or grandpa. In which case that's fine.


You're funny!!:laughing::laughing: The fact is, if you did a poll, most of us are not "titty fed" electricians. Neither my dad nor my grandpa were electricians. A number of us probably learned by doing and by watching others. Probably what a lot of us would like you to learn is that if you have a humble attitude (if that's possible) you'll find the more experienced electricians wanting to give you advice to avoid learning the hard way (the way they had to learn)! The other bit of advice I'd give you is if you're going to post on here and not just lurk, you'd better be willing to receive as well as you give!:laughing::laughing: And always have a code reference ready to back you up.:thumbsup:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> It sounds to me that this guy possesses reasonably high intelligence and has good physical skills. I can see someone feeling like they can wire a house after watching/helping for a house or two, and with some oversight they can probably do a good job. It's when the oversight is gone and there is no one to call and ask if you are doing it correctly that it gets interesting.
> 
> To the OP, what size SEU cable does the NEC require to 100-amp, 120/240-volt sub panel in a house?
> 
> (Yes, although I don't do residential, *I understand *my question, let's wait to see if the OP can answer it before the forum jumps all over this question).


The OP PM'd me and answered a #2. I explained if the connected load was 95-amps or less that would be correct, and if the connected load was greater than 95-amps he would need a #1. I also told him a #1/0 AL would be acceptable.

I then pointed out that SEU is a 3-wire cable and SER is a 4-wire cable, and he would need SER and not SEU.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> yall are getting trolled so hard right now


Second that


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

hardworkingstiff said:


> The OP PM'd me and answered a #2. I explained if the connected load was 95-amps or less that would be correct, and if the connected load was greater than 95-amps he would need a #1. I also told him a #1/0 AL would be acceptable.
> 
> I then pointed out that SEU is a 3-wire cable and SER is a 4-wire cable, and he would need SER and not SEU.


I simply replied #2 awg. You didn't specify a back to back or disconnect. My bad. Reading between those lines gets fuzzy sometimes


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

wendon said:


> You're funny!!:laughing::laughing: The fact is, if you did a poll, most of us are not "titty fed" electricians. Neither my dad nor my grandpa were electricians. A number of us probably learned by doing and by watching others. Probably what a lot of us would like you to learn is that if you have a humble attitude (if that's possible) you'll find the more experienced electricians wanting to give you advice to avoid learning the hard way (the way they had to learn)! The other bit of advice I'd give you is if you're going to post on here and not just lurk, you'd better be willing to receive as well as you give!:laughing::laughing: And always have a code reference ready to back you up.:thumbsup:


That ain't no s***. I'm not tryin to give it to anyone. But I'm not gunna walk on egg shells. And I'm honestly not tryin to step on anyone's toes. But I'll be d**** if someone tries to step on mine.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

southernelectric30 said:


> I simply replied #2 awg.


And that is correct under certain but not all conditions.


> You didn't specify a back to back or disconnect.


I did say sub-panel. That would mean it is not the service disconnect and there would be a need for over current protection, and 100-amp was mentioned.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

I thought u could use a #4 and #3 for comercial, but I don't do res.


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

hardworkingstiff said:


> And that is correct under certain but not all conditions.
> 
> I did say sub-panel. That would mean it is not the service disconnect and there would be a need for over current protection, and 100-amp was mentioned.


Yes you did my mistake. Homeowners typically don't ask for sub panels. Specially since I read on here that a homeowner has no business in one. Just trying to clear up my lack of knowledge a tid bit.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Celtic said:


> I provided you with a link...
> 
> Put up or shut up.





southernelectric30 said:


> I'll shutup till I put up in the morning. Fair nuff. But do explain 'what I'm about'


Mornings over....time to shut up. :shutup:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Peewee0413 said:


> I thought u could use a #4 and #3 for comercial, but I don't do res.


338.10(B)(4)(a) will require an SEU or SER cable installed in/under insulation to use the 60c column for the not too exceed ampacity of a conductor. Since installing a sub panel in a home it is nearly impossible to install that cable not in/under insulation, we are limited to 60c column for ampacities.

#3 is rated at 85-amps and #4 is rated for 70-amps. If the calculated load of the sub panel was less than those ampacities you could use the size wires you stated, but the OCP for the #4 would be 70A and for the #3, 90A.


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## southernelectric30 (Mar 11, 2013)

Celtic said:


> Mornings over....time to shut up. :shutup:


There is no limit. Local code would/could determine that. Obviously that's if it's non continuous. Localize your outlets, for the area. 20 amps = 13 outlets for me plus light load. NEC is minimum, minimum won't get you the next job.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

southernelectric30 said:


> There is no limit. Local code would/could determine that. Obviously that's if it's non continuous. Localize your outlets, for the area. 20 amps = 13 outlets for me plus light load. NEC is minimum, minimum won't get you the next job.


DUDE! You really should argue less. Usually, the NEC minimum is what gets you the job. Knowing the minimum allows you to come up with the lowest code compliant price, then you up-sell after you get the job.

BTW, Celtic knows what he's talking about and you really shouldn't argue with him w/out being able to post supporting documentation.

Just trying to help kid.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

southernelectric30 said:


> You guys just saved me a bunch of money, I'll put all my outlets on 1 crkt now since there's no limit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





southernelectric30 said:


> There is no limit. Local code would/could determine that. Obviously that's if it's non continuous. Localize your outlets, for the area. 20 amps = 13 outlets for me plus light load. NEC is minimum, minimum won't get you the next job.


Thanks for proving my point.
You do not have a clue ~ so much for your qualified comments:


southernelectric30 said:


> And let's be real, residential is about as easy as it gets.
> 
> Residential is as easy as it gets. And if there are any questions, yea the NEC book is big, *but it's not hard to look things up*.


Put a bib on while you slurp your lunch.



Go away.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)




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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)




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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)




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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

What code cycle in ur state?


Why no afci brkrs?


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## Supfoolitschris (Jan 29, 2013)

Hey. One small question. In dumb ******* louisiana we spell it "panel" not "pannel." but hey he sounds alot smarter than me


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Supfoolitschris said:


> Hey. One small question. In dumb ******* louisiana we spell it "panel" not "pannel." but hey he sounds alot smarter than me


IF he says it's pannel, it's pannel! Don't question the maestro!:shutup:


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Lmao


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## Supfoolitschris (Jan 29, 2013)

wendon said:


> IF he says it's pannel, it's pannel! Don't question the maestro!:shutup:


You are probably right.

I am one of those "tit fed" electricians as he says who learned from my dad and deceased grandad. That comment ticked me off a little. But hey! Hes been doing this for 5 YEARS so who am i to question him?!


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

southernelectric30 said:


> There is no limit. Local code would/could determine that. Obviously that's if it's non continuous. Localize your outlets, for the area. 20 amps = 13 outlets for me plus light load. NEC is minimum, minimum won't get you the next job.


Why are you running 20 amp circuits, fun?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

....


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

Learn how to lay your wires in panels and you won't need zip ties, buck up on the code book and keep an open mind


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

What is this?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)




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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Peewee0413 said:


> What is this?
> 
> View attachment 23249


You can use that when a panel supplies 100% of the loads of the dwelling.

If that is in reference to my question, I will admit that I did not make it clear that I was thinking the sub panel would not carry 100% of the dwelling loads. If you have a sub panel that does not carry all of the dwelling loads, then you have to use the 60c column of 310.15(B)(16) instead of that table.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

southernelectric30 said:


> View attachment 23214


Being honest the raius bends of that wire are against code. Other than that looks good! more pics though are needed tthough, I will judge accordingly from there. 

Ill be nice, Ill give you tips on anything thst could be better.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Ultrafault said:


> In my opinion he came here and devalued our profession by stating that it could be learned by watching over someone elses shoulder. I dont have many posts at all but have been treated with respect. Except for that time someone thought I was rewire.


 
He didnt devalue anthing, hes just stating hes an observent learner. I learned by watching others and Im sure you did as well. And like he said, resisdential is easy stuff it can be learned fast. 

I will let the kid prove himself on his work.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

In NY state, you need 7 years documented experience. No formal education what so ever. Then you need to prove you can strip wire, and you have your license. Buy a van, and your good to go.

So you can sweep floors under an electrician for 7 years. Show your pay stubs, and basically get your license.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Sounds like texas


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