# Not sure what to expect



## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

I probably would have joined the union at the beginning of my electrical career but a non-union shop got ahold of me before getting into the local union in my area. But now i cant find a non-union shop with at least as good of benefits as my last. So now I am back in this boat trying to see if the union will be the right fit. I went thru my first shops apprenticeship program. But from my understanding the local union here will only accept part of my hours at the previous shop. So im sure if I get into the union ill be paid at a lower rate while i go thru enough of the unions apprenticeship program is my understanding. Im fine with all of that long as they dont drop my pay too much and/or too long of time.

After that what i really would like to know. Can i just join a union shop and not have to take some more classes? Would i be better off just seeing if i can get into the unions apprenticeship program and just complete what they want me to? Finding stable work is what I would like most. Just need to know what you all think

TLDR: Would like to go from non-union to a union shop. Would like to know if I can just jump in with a union shop or I go thru the hall and complete some more class time.


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## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

I've started the process from non union to union it's a long process but it's worth it in long run .

I'll have to start from the beggining doing a year of labor history befor I start as first year apprentice. So I'll be going from25$ ph to 12 ph it's a hudge sacrafice but worth having pention health benies ,being apart of a brother hood etc.

You can not just join a union shop you have to be enrolled in the apprenticeship program go to school and the hall will send you to a contractor of their choice .

Now if you know a union contractor that has some pull he mite be able to pull you from hall befor the hall sends you off .

Hope all goes well I'm still learning about how the ibew operates theirs lots of guys on here that know more than me
Regarding to the ibew since I'm just starting school in sept . 

Wish you the best in your journey .


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

How many years do you have in the trade?

Are you a journeyman or apprentice right now?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

When it comes to unions out on the sticks, often times they aren't that strong and the wages may not be that much better than non-union. Work might be slow as well. 

In some areas getting into the union is like winning the lottery. In others, it may be better to stay non-union if you have a decent career path.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

I thought unions take verifiable hours worked into account?
Depending on how long you been working non union, you may be able to bybass the apprenticeship.

Im nonunion myself, so I dont know for sure, but thought i read that for nj unions.

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> I thought unions take verifiable hours worked into account?
> Depending on how long you been working non union, you may be able to bybass the apprenticeship.
> 
> Im nonunion myself, so I dont know for sure, but thought i read that for nj unions.
> ...


Not in my experience. I have known people who had 5+ years doing electrical work who were brought in as 1st or 2nd year apprentices.


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## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

trentonmakes said:


> I thought unions take verifiable hours worked into account?
> Depending on how long you been working non union, you may be able to bybass the apprenticeship.
> 
> Im nonunion myself, so I dont know for sure, but thought i read that for nj unions.
> ...


I guess it matters what local. I went to 164 Nj and they wanted me to start all over as 1 year apprentice , but their was a two year waiting list.

So I went to 363 Hudson valley ny
They made me start over as 1st year app and I have to do laybor history , but I was able to get right in .


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Yep
Looks like i misread it


I think i mixed the union up with applying for a license.




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## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

Switchgear277 said:


> trentonmakes said:
> 
> 
> > I thought unions take verifiable hours worked into account?
> ...


And I had 5 years experience


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The union wants to have all it's members to go thru the apprenticeship training. The only time that they will sometimes let men in as J-men is as a provision when organizing companies. And even then, I have seen a lot of organized men come in as lower year apprentices.

But this may be completely different in Ohio where the OP is from.


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> How many years do you have in the trade?
> 
> Are you a journeyman or apprentice right now?


Ill be at 6 years in just a couple months. Finished my apprenticeship with that first non-union shop I worked for.


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

Far as I know they just need 4,000 hours of documented OJT from the shop I worked for. I am not entirely sure what year they would put me in. Dont really know anyone in this union, the one next to it yeah. I just dont wanna drop my pay too much.


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## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

Maybe it is just my local but if you have verifiable hours and they will typical pay you at that same rate as a union apprentice who has the same hours. They would still make you go through the entire apprenticeship though.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

cook0821 said:


> Far as I know they just need 4,000 hours of documented OJT from the shop I worked for. I am not entirely sure what year they would put me in. Dont really know anyone in this union, the one next to it yeah. I just dont wanna drop my pay too much.


Ask to be tested for placement and see what they offer.


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Ask to be tested for placement and see what they offer.


That's a good idea, can't hurt I'll see what they say. Thanks for all the advice everyone I'll see what happens. I'll try to post back here.


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

*Pros/Cons*

Aside from how I get into the union. From your experiences, what kind of stuff were major issues from non-union guys going to union? Maybe guys that left the union and found a non-union shop to be better or worse in certain ways too? I'm pretty flexible with most things and when someone has a better and easier way to do something I am all for it. (As long as it's within code (-; )Probably not gonna be like the guy in a thread I just saw that was done after 2 days lol.


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## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

cook0821 said:


> Aside from how I get into the union. From your experiences, what kind of stuff were major issues from non-union guys going to union? Maybe guys that left the union and found a non-union shop to be better or worse in certain ways too? I'm pretty flexible with most things and when someone has a better and easier way to do something I am all for it. (As long as it's within code (-; )Probably not gonna be like the guy in a thread I just saw that was done after 2 days lol.


There really isn't any issues as long as you worry about yourself and not what others are doing.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

"Can i just join a union shop and not have to take some more classes?"

You can request to be organized in as a JW if you meet the locals criteria and pass their JW test. 

The criteria would be so many thousand hours documented performing electrical work. Documented may require SS printout. Hold a local journeyman license. Lived in the area for about 2 years. The criteria is set and determined if acceptable by the local. 

It really comes to this. Does you local want you working for them as a JW. Besides you and your experience they conciser their situation. How many JWs they have out of work, how many will be retiring, how many calls go to book 2, and work outlook. Do they need more JWs or not.

Also they factor your importance and impact to a non-union contractor. Such as a non-union supervisor level electrician or companies most important electrician would be much more desirable to recruit vs an unemployed electrician.

If your not working, don't have a local electrical license, haven't worked for major union competitors, and only have 5-6 years the odds are not great of becoming a JW in the hall unless they are really busy with work.

They will just give you the run around, such as some of your hours not counting. 

Do you feel like your at a journeyman level? Can you pass the local electrician exam. Do you think you can pass the halls JW test? 

More likely they may suggest you come back next year, apply to the apprenticeship, or join at the CE/CW level.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Switchgear277 said:


> "Now if you know a union contractor that has some pull he mite be able to pull you from hall befor the hall sends you off .


It's called a call by name.
Not going to happen.

Also to organize in as a JW by testing is a long process.
Depending on their schedule it could take you 4-6 months.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

In our local you do not take a pay cut and depending on where you are in time in trade depends on classes you have to take.

Stellar electricians may come in a "A" journeymen, while most will come into the "R" program and take an upgrade course, 3 years I THINK.

To the OP in the long term you are way better off if you can get into the union no matter what the circumstances, wages will go up every 6 months and the bennies with health insurance and retirement are hard to beat.


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

active1 said:


> "Can i just join a union shop and not have to take some more classes?"
> 
> You can request to be organized in as a JW if you meet the locals criteria and pass their JW test.
> 
> ...


I had no idea theres that much that goes into it. Some great insight though. Are the books there just if you run out of work? If we are getting plenty of work and I'm a good worker would i still have to worry about getting work thru the books? I believe my area the books are slow on book 1 and 2.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

"Are the books there just if you run out of work? If we are getting plenty of work and I'm a good worker would i still have to worry about getting work thru the books? I believe my area the books are slow on book 1 and 2."

As a JW in the IBEW you agree to be dispatched to an employer off a book system.
If your not working then you sign book 1 in your local.
Wait job comes up and wait till they call your name. 
Everyone on the list before you gets first chance to take the call.

Being a good worker has nothing to do with the books or IBEW.
Your all the same JW. Your all skilled and good workers.
At least in the dispatch phase.
Imagine communism. All the same.
On the job it's a different story.
As a person that didn't go thru the IBEW apprenticeship you are not the same.
If you got no family or important friends in the hall or at companies your not the same.

An example would be Cleaveland, OH local 38 has 426 listed on book 1 and lists the work as being slow on the IBEW Job Board. That would be hard to get in.
But places like the Bay Area are booming. They would be easier to get in. Except you can't just move there and join in many cases. Need to be a resident of the area.

For pension be careful if your young.
Similar to SS. 
Works when you have a much bigger work force than retirees.
The brotherhood has less members to support may more retirees coming.
One day it may collapse.
In the time being plenty of cats at the hall have been skimming the funds.

The DOJ was actually fighting to get the local 38 members pension money back a few years ago. It used to be the union fighting for the worker.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> *It's called a call by name.
> Not going to happen.*
> 
> Also to organize in as a JW by testing is a long process.
> Depending on their schedule it could take you 4-6 months.


Depends on the local I guess.

Hmm, yeah it must have been a week after I applied that I tested and was given journeymen status.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Here you meet with an organizer.
Come back again with all documentation.
If approved you need to attend a pretesting meeting.
Then the tests are scheduled.
Sometimes across 6 weeks, other times same day.
The tests are only given few times a year.
After that it takes a week to get test results.
Then schedule a meeting to sign papers.
Because here they want to tests in groups limited to a certain number only a few times a year it can take 3-6 months.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> Here you meet with an organizer.
> Come back again with all documentation.
> If approved you need to attend a pretesting meeting.
> Then the tests are scheduled.
> ...


Met with an organizer for lunch, filled out the paperwork, got a call next day to stop by the local and meet a couple guys, asked to come in a couple days later. 

Went took the test with three others guys in a classroom on a pc and had a cup of coffee and the organizer and the guy in charge of training came in a gave me the results. 

Got a call to go see a contractor a couple days later.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

A compuer test.
Never herd of that.
It's a practal and written exam (paper fill in the blank) at other locals.
Bring your tool box.
5 different tests a few hours each.

Call by name has strict limitations in our agreement. Reguardless calling a new organised hand by name would not fly. If it did that person would be target for a long time to come. You don't just walk in a local from non-union and skip past all the brothers on the book.


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## cook0821 (Mar 23, 2015)

active1 said:


> A compuer test.
> Never herd of that.
> It's a practal and written exam (paper fill in the blank) at other locals.
> Bring your tool box.
> ...


Yeah I probably wouldn't want that then. Don't wanna take any shortcuts or disrespect anyone. I wanna put my time in and go from there. Like the kid that shows up on the job with brand new power tools, new truck, everything like someone just handed him all that and doesn't even know how to use his tools. That's just asking for it. Just wasn't completely sure how these kind of things work.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted by *active1*
> _Here you meet with an organizer.
> Come back again with all documentation.
> If approved you need to attend a pretesting meeting.
> ...


Received a phone call at home, met the next day at the hall gave 2 weeks notice and in like Flint. 1-1/2 years later was called to take a test, took the test.
"A" baby


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

I was describing going from nonunion straight to A card JW.


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