# Neon Sign in Residential Dwelling Unit



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

*rutt roo....*



> (I) Dwelling Occupancies. Equipment having an open cir-
> cuit voltage exceeding 1000 volts shall not be installed in
> or on dwelling occupancies.


Could it be you've just trashed every dwelling store front from sea to freakin' shinin' sea A6...? :blink:~CS~


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## V-Dough (Jul 22, 2014)

You best ask your inspector. Im not sure how it works in States but here we can get field approvals for equipment that isnt ULC or CSA certified... Maybe he would allow it that way.

And if that isn't an option, get the designer to switch to LED 'neon' tubes


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## A6USMC (Feb 7, 2014)

Could it be you've just trashed every dwelling store front from sea to freakin' shinin' sea A6...? ~CS~

I don't feel I have "trashed" anything, I am just asking a group of trade professionals their take on the wording and intent of the written code, so that I might make the proper interpretation of the code.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I have always considered that it means no neon in dwellings if the secondary output of the neon transformer is 1,000 volts or greater. 


They make led's that look pretty close nowadays.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

What kind of conductors were you planning to use? I don't recall ever seeing 9000v. conductors in flex.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

What is the meaning of '_open circuit voltage_' here?

~CS~


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> What is the meaning of '_open circuit voltage_' here?
> 
> ~CS~


No load voltage.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I was hopin' for something along the lines of _'exposed contacts'_ Joe.....~CS~


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

joebanana said:


> What kind of conductors were you planning to use? I don't recall ever seeing 9000v. conductors in flex.


During my career as maintenance supervisor for a chain of stores, every neon conductor was routed from the transformer to the sign can with greenfield, including voltages in excess of 14,000. It's common practice.:whistling2:


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## V-Dough (Jul 22, 2014)

Missouri Bound said:


> During my career as maintenance supervisor for a chain of stores, every neon conductor was routed from the transformer to the sign can with greenfield, including voltages in excess of 14,000. It's common practice.:whistling2:


Whats a greenfield?

GTO wire (15KV rating) is standard for neons. You can also run any wire you like in a GTO sleeving (like a stiff heat shrink). As far as conduit usually liquidtight metallic flex but the lenght has to be limited due to capacitance effect.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

V-Dough said:


> Whats a greenfield?
> 
> GTO wire (15KV rating) is standard for neons. You can also run any wire you like in a GTO sleeving (like a stiff heat shrink). As far as conduit usually liquidtight metallic flex but the lenght has to be limited due to capacitance effect.



Greenfield is the metal armor jacket on MC and Bx.


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

Mech Diver said:


> Greenfield is the metal armor jacket on MC and Bx.


Well..........almost.:no:
They look alike, but greenfield is not the same as bx. Bx doesn't have the continuity that greenfield does nor the flexibility. BX is just a wrap over wires where greenfield is a flexible conduit.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Missouri Bound said:


> Well..........almost.:no:
> They look alike, but greenfield is not the same as bx. Bx doesn't have the continuity that greenfield does nor the flexibility. BX is just a wrap over wires where greenfield is a flexible conduit.



Does it really have to be that specific ? I'm sure the description I gave is adequate for someone that asks what 'greenfield' is. Do you honestly think the armor on bx and mc made by one manufacturer is different ? And YES I KNOW THEY COME IN STEEL JACKET AND ALUMINUM !!


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Bx was a slang name for Mc back in the day when it was made by the Bronx wire Company of New York. Mech D , like myself is an old timer and that's what we all called it just like we still call and nm romex been calling that stuff that way for 35 years now we have to be politically correct I guess like everything else


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

I'd always heard that "x" stands for experimental, and that type "ax" didn't work out, sometime around the year 1900


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

RGH said:


> Bx was a slang name for Mc back in the day when it was made by the Bronx wire Company of New York. Mech D , like myself is an old timer and that's what we all called it just like we still call and nm romex been calling that stuff that way for 35 years now we have to be politically correct I guess like everything else




TRUE 

That is the way of " BX "

We will always call it that ....

Like the steel heavy Greenfield of the old days ...Man is that heavy ...

can not mistake it to the stuff today , or the weight .


I will always SAVE all old GREENFIELD , it is really a different Product
than other stuff you will find in the market with way better Qualities ...

Charge more for it ... Top Quality . Better for certain Work .



Don


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

Mech Diver said:


> Greenfield is the metal armor jacket on MC and Bx.




Take it from a Real Old Timer , " Greenfield " the old stuff . is a " Heavy Gauge Steel Wrapped / corogate Pipe /tube / flex / system 

Kinda explain it .

Very Heavy in weight and content / steel and thick gauge /hard to cut .

The best product out there by far .

It is sold empty / so wire is added later / different grounding rules apply /

always better to pull a Ground with it /


Oh when you Find It on Jobs ...RIP IT OUT AND PUT IT ON TRUCK !!!

RESTOCK ON TRUCK .

LOVE THAT STUFF .



Don


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

Mech Diver said:


> Does it really have to be that specific ? I'm sure the description I gave is adequate for someone that asks what 'greenfield' is. Do you honestly think the armor on bx and mc made by one manufacturer is different ? And YES I KNOW THEY COME IN STEEL JACKET AND ALUMINUM !!





WE RIB ANYBODY ....


FIRE AWAY


MAN THE GUNS


FILL THE BEER

FILL THE BEER 

FILL THE BEER 



Don


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

RGH said:


> Bx was a slang name for Mc back in the day when it was made by the Bronx wire Company of New York. Mech D , like myself is an old timer and that's what we all called it just like we still call and nm romex been calling that stuff that way for 35 years now we have to be politically correct I guess like everything else



To me BX was always conductors with maybe a thin aluminum wannabe ground in steel armor, MC was always conductors with a copper ground conductor usually in aluminum jacket. Not sure your idea back in the day. Did they have bx on the wagontrain west ?


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