# 2P arc fault breakers being eliminated?



## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I went into the SH the other day, and asked for a 2P AFCI breaker for a GE panel. There is a MWBC or two in a panel swapout, and the requirements for this job is that all circuits possible be AFCI protected.
Anyway, I was told that GE no longer makes 2P AFCI breakers in 15 or 20A.:blink: " use a handle tie" BTW, we don't have any of those in stock.:no:

Following it up at another competing SH, I asked if Seimens had done the same thing. To shorten the story, I found out that they stopped making the single stage models "AF" and only make the 2 stage model "AFCI". Also after a call to the Seimens rep, I found out that Seimens made the GE breakers for GE.  Didn't know that. 
So, Seimens is still making the breakers, but it takes over 2 weeks to get 3-2P 20A AFCI? 

Has anyone else found it hard to get GE arc faults?

If I did use a handle tie with two single pole, do the Neutrals need to be jumped together? How would that still work?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

What are _single-stage_ and _two-stage_ AFCIs? :001_huh:


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I was using the terminology of the SH guy, I think it has to do with series faults or series / parallel faults, the latter being termed combination type. Not haveing the specs in hand, (can't get the breakers) One of them has some type of GFCI or GFPE protection.

I did a quick check of this pdf I don't see anything that says two stage. Good read though.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Is CT _still_ on the 2005 NEC?


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Yeah, with slight rumbles of 2008 coming this fall, and 2011 in Jan.:blink:

What I am trying to do, is make some existing AL wiring "safer" so that the insurance co will continue in coverage for the homes wired that way.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

You don't need a two pole AFCI when using GE. You can use two single poles to accomplish the same thing, and only hook up one neutral. It will be cheaper by the way to do that. If you are sharing the neutral as in a multiwire branch circuit that you are protecting, then yes a handle tie is required on the two breakers nowadays. Still ends up about $50 bucks cheaper than buying a two pole Afci breaker.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

JohnR said:


> Yeah, with slight rumbles of 2008 coming this fall, and 2011 in Jan.:blink:



It's funny to do a job in CT...no TR or WR receptacles, no whole house AFCI protection, etc etc.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Yes but I always use TR outlets anyway just because I like the idea.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> You don't need a two pole AFCI when using GE. You can use two single poles to accomplish the same thing, and only hook up one neutral. It will be cheaper by the way to do that. If you are sharing the neutral as in a multiwire branch circuit that you are protecting, then yes a handle tie is required on the two breakers nowadays. Still ends up about $50 bucks cheaper than buying a two pole Afci breaker.


I didn't think that would work using two single poles, I had the idea that they were like gfi's that trip out at any difference of power throughput.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

the siemens do. That is why on their arc-detect tool it shows you the ground fault level. I find it weird that siemens makes the GE breakers, when the GE breakers do not have the GF protection and the siemens do.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

JohnR said:


> I didn't think that would work using two single poles, I had the idea that they were like gfi's that trip out at any difference of power throughput.


Look here at post #1. http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=127902


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks MacMikeman, I see I am a year behind on knowing about this LOL. I couldn't find anything on it. Glad for this links.


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