# TelCo ground in high rise



## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Doing a TI in a 21 story building, just roughed in and trimmed out server room. Verizon is asking for #6 ground for their equipment. This goes to the ground electrode right? Planning on attaching it to the building steel. Legal? Does it need to be an irreversible connection?


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

check it

http://www.mohawk-cable.com/support/ansi-tia-eia-607.html


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

It says I can bond to building steel, but doesn't say if it has to be irreversible.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> Doing a TI in a 21 story building, just roughed in and trimmed out server room. Verizon is asking for #6 ground for their equipment. This goes to the ground electrode right? Planning on attaching it to the building steel. Legal? Does it need to be an irreversible connection?


While it may be a grounding electrode conductor, it is not a grounding electrode conductor that is covered by the rules in the NEC. There would be no code requirement for the use of an irreversible connection. There may be such a requirement in the job specs or Verizon's specs, but it is not a code rule.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> While it may be a grounding electrode conductor, it is not a grounding electrode conductor that is covered by the rules in the NEC. There would be no code requirement for the use of an irreversible connection. There may be such a requirement in the job specs or Verizon's specs, but it is not a code rule.


its under eia/tia...


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

You would have to show verification that building steel is bonded to the GEC. I have seen building steel that wasn't. Large area of it too.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

No, it doesn't have to be irreversible, I've never seen one spec'd as such in 20+ years.

Don't bond to building steel either if you can help it, you wouldn't believe some of the resistance there can be between building ground and equipment ground.

See if someone will give you a ground bar connected to panel ground.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Make sure you're not also going to be required to run that #6 to all the floors that will have an IDF. That would also be a pretty normal requirement. Quick tip: You can save the cost of bonafide PANI bars by screwing a Square D PK-something-or-other ground bar onto the backboard or inside the IDF cabinets.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

mikeh32 said:


> its under eia/tia...


Which are not normally legally adopted codes...they are job specs.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> You can save the cost of bonafide PANI bars by screwing a Square D PK-something-or-other ground bar onto the backboard or inside the IDF cabinets.


That's all I ask for, or do, and/or get, easy and simple.

The people that want an isolated ground version when its mounted on the same backboard as the panel though are a bit silly.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sarness said:


> No, it doesn't have to be irreversible, I've never seen one spec'd as such in 20+ years.
> 
> Don't bond to building steel either if you can help it, you wouldn't believe some of the resistance there can be between building ground and equipment ground.
> 
> See if someone will give you a ground bar connected to panel ground.


 
And a #6 AWG from the penthouse to the main electric room or cold water pipe would not?

If the building is all structural steel with concrete footers with a verifiable low resistance connections I would bet on the steel.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Poor building ground certainly is not common, but it does exist, I've come across it, so I go my more preferred method. Not every separate piece of steel has a verification sticker that says its properly grounded.

OP didn't mention a copper water pipe, but yes, if its available, go ahead.

I still prefer panel ground, less chance of it failing or losing it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sarness said:


> P
> 
> I still prefer panel ground, less chance of it failing or losing it.


50-50 either way and since I test ground systems for a living, call me next time, I'll gladly test it for you.

The point is a #6 run to the basement to a ground electrode would be IMO worthless. Many (MOST that I have read) telco specs will NOT let you ground to a panel ground.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

YMMV then, I've been doing it 20+ years and haven't had a complaint yet. Course maybe others behind me may have said HACK!

A GEC back to the rod? Pointless yeah if its not close.

What specs have you seen?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Make sure you're not also going to be required to run that #6 to all the floors that will have an IDF. That would also be a pretty normal requirement. Quick tip: You can save the cost of bonafide PANI bars by screwing a Square D PK-something-or-other ground bar onto the backboard or inside the IDF cabinets.


That's the way to go if no #6 to each of the floors is required....just do the local ground at each panel.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sarness said:


> A GEC back to the rod? Pointless yeah if its not close.
> 
> What specs have you seen?


Verizon, AT&T, Ameritel, Nextel, Sprint, Northern Telecom, Crickett, Lucent and the list goes on.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Yes, familiar with some of those, please forgive me though as most of time I'm not there during new construction.

What do they spec out for an acceptable ground to their equipment?

Panel ground hasn't been an issue on the ones I've done that way. Otherwise I've tied to existing grounds which were bonded to the closest metal thing most of the time.


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