# 200 Amp Mast Service



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)




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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

bugged in?
your wires going to the breakers are all wrinkly. 
I guess the disco is in panel instead of outside...did you give them the option of having one outside too?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

What's the big honkin' green wire for? GEC?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

...and the G's are on the N bar?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dumb question:

Where are the............ um............. uh................ er.......................

_*AFCI*_'s?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

This is a 200 AMP MB 40 ckt panel. :thumbsup:


The green is for the ground rod. HO insisted on paying for materials. I did what I had to do 6 months ago. :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Dumb question:
> 
> Where are the............ um............. uh................ er.......................
> 
> _*AFCI*_'s?


Rehabilitation subcode. :thumbsup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

why not run the earth ground from the meter?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> why not run the earth ground from the meter?


'Round here, GECs are required to terminate in the same enclosure and the first point of disconnect.





























I also spy a black wire terminated next to the service noodle........


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Really nice job.. _even_ with the cover off :thumbsup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

yeah I saw that...but why N and G's mixed together?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> 'Round here, GECs are required to terminate in the same enclosure and the first point of disconnect.


That's ridiculous. I can believe the pipe/steel, etc. bond but the earth ground? 
Seems to me an allowance should be made.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Dumb question:
> 
> Where are the............ um............. uh................ er.......................
> 
> _*AFCI*_'s?


You put AFCI's in on service changes?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I also spy a black wire terminated next to the service noodle........


H2O ground. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> You put AFCI's in on service changes?



Some AHJs require it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> yeah I saw that...but why N and G's mixed together?



Why not? What is to be gained by separating them in the panel? They still are eventually all tied together.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> That's ridiculous. I can believe the pipe/steel, etc. bond but the earth ground?
> Seems to me an allowance should be made.



POCO rules. They don't want them in their cash registers.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The rewire I'm doing requires all AFCI circuit breakers. It'll be the first time I've ever even installed them. NJ didn't adopt 210.12 until June 2009 and based on the NEC '08.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> H2O ground. :thumbsup:


okay he just answered my Q...that #1 or 1/O is going to the water pipe. It looked like a 4 wire setup.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> POCO rules. They don't want them in their cash registers.


Crazy ass yankee stuff.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

Full size noodle for a resi service?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> Crazy ass yankee stuff.



Not as weird as the Masseechewsets stuff.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> The rewire I'm doing requires all AFCI circuit breakers. It'll be the first time I've ever even installed them. NJ didn't adopt 210.12 until June 2009 and based on the NEC '08.


AFCI's in LOWES were $10.00 cheaper than supply house...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> okay he just answered my Q...that #1 or 1/O is going to the water pipe. It looked like a 4 wire setup.


I probably should have covered it with green tape but it's not a requirement.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> AFCI's in LOWES were $10.00 cheaper than supply house...


Oh, definitely... HOMELINE single pole breakers are nearly half the cost of the SH. Wire and circuit breakers from the Depot, just about everything else from Rahway Electric Supply.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> Crazy ass yankee stuff.


LOL

Speaking of the Yankees.... they raise their 27th World Series pennant this afternoon in the Bronx. :thumbsup:


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> why not run the earth ground from the meter?


 So is your groundrod in the house, I know you can do it that way too!


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## BautistaElectricSP (Mar 28, 2010)

Because you dont have to seperate the neutrals and grounds in a main service panel, thats why they are all on same buss. Your area doesnt require a strut or 2 to support the riser?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BautistaElectricSP said:


> Because you dont have to seperate the neutrals and grounds in a main service panel, thats why they are all on same buss. Your area doesnt require a strut or 2 to support the riser?


Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:

Now, who the heck puts strut on the side of a house? 

If you look closely you'll see (2) single hole 2" galvanized straps.


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:
> 
> Now, who the heck puts strut on the side of a house?
> 
> If you look closely you'll see (2) single hole 2" galvanized straps.


Its required here if your going through the roof, or you can use those u bolt things.


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:
> 
> Now, who the heck puts strut on the side of a house?
> 
> If you look closely you'll see (2) single hole 2" galvanized straps.





mikeg_05 said:


> Its required here if your going through the roof, or you can use those u bolt things.


You think that strap is going to support the strain imposed by the service drop? If the strap is not fastened to a wall stud it may as well not be there for this purpose. The roof sheathing is the primary support on these masts.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

mikeg_05 said:


> Its required here if your going through the roof, or you can use those u bolt things.


You put unistrut/ Kindorf on the side of a house? I would never do that unless it was the only way and the homeowner approved. Then again if it's truly a poco requirement I wouldn't have much choice.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

kwired said:


> You think that strap is going to support the strain imposed by the service drop? If the strap is not fastened to a wall stud it may as well not be there for this purpose. The roof sheathing is the primary support on these masts.


I think if I needed additional support, and I would if the mast was any higher, then I would use a guy wire kit that mounts to the roof. That mast is strong like a bull so I'm not worried.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> AFCI's in LOWES were $10.00 cheaper than supply house...


 
Yep and so are regular breakers:thumbup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> You put unistrut/ Kindorf on the side of a house?


I do when I feel the need to.:thumbsup:

~Matt


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:
> 
> Now, who the heck puts strut on the side of a house?
> 
> If you look closely you'll see (2) single hole 2" galvanized straps.


I'll do it, I like the look, plus if that house falls down, my rigid pipe will still be there.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Why not? What is to be gained by separating them in the panel? They still are eventually all tied together.


In that case you'd have objectionable current in a parallel path between the panel and disco.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> 'Round here, GECs are required to terminate in the same enclosure and the first point of disconnect.


For argument's sake, the first point of disco is the meter head.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> For argument's sake, the first point of disco is the meter head.



What is a meter head?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> What is a meter head?


the socket


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> the socket


How does the socket turn power on and off?

Let me know how long it'll take you to open this 'disconnect":


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

They're easier to break into around here and, technically, it IS the first point of disconnection.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> They're easier to break into around here and, technically, it IS the first point of disconnection.


Is it rated to disconnect the full load?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Is it rated to disconnect the full load?


lol, never tried to plug one in or pull one out with a load on the service, but I am positive it is rated for the size of the service.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> lol, never tried to plug one in or pull one out with a load on the service, but I am positive it is rated for the size of the service.



Yea, it's rated to _carry_ the load......... but is it rated to _disconnect_ it?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Yea, it's rated to _carry_ the load......... but is it rated to _disconnect_ it?


hey you're the guy promoting tying the N's and G's together at the panel


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> You put unistrut/ Kindorf on the side of a house? I would never do that unless it was the only way and the homeowner approved. Then again if it's truly a poco requirement I wouldn't have much choice.


Yep, I'd love to use a couple of rigid straps and call it good, but no go:no:


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## Mike D (Sep 16, 2008)

Buzz,

The panel is a Main Breaker Panel with the required Main Bonding Jumper properly installed, No obj current path present.


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

mikeg_05 said:


> Yep, I'd love to use a couple of rigid straps and call it good, but no go:no:


Are those specs from a power supplier, local AHJ, or specific to a certain project. 

I hate when POCO or AHJ thinks that there is a "one size fits all" situation and that is how it is going to be or don't bother at all.

I have installed masts that have only 20 feet or less of #4 aluminum triplex for the drop cable. I don't think a 2 inch rigid is necessary to support this. 

I have also seen tree limbs fall on lines and bend 2 inch rigid mast nearly 90 degrees at the roof. I think POCO should also use some type connector that will let go after a certain amount of tension is imposed on it and this to be installed on supply end so the downed line will be deenergized and designed so that neutral is last conductor to open.

But I'm not an engineer so what difference does any of this matter?


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

kwired said:


> Are those specs from a power supplier, local AHJ, or specific to a certain project.
> 
> I hate when POCO or AHJ thinks that there is a "one size fits all" situation and that is how it is going to be or don't bother at all?


Yep those are out of the WAC book ( washington administrative code ). Those are your options for going through the roof for an overhead service.


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