# Journeyman vs Master Electrician



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Usually the JATC will get you a yellow ticket as an "inside wireman" beyond that, our local, requires you to take an pass the local county journeyman exam as part of the program. 
Our local doesn't have a "Master" ticket. We are all JW inside wireman.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

compuradon said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm over here in NYC Local 3, beginning the apprenticeship. Does the apprenticeship program lead to a Master Electrician license, as well as Journeyman status, and if so what is the difference between Master Electrician and Journeyman? Thanks!
> 
> Tom


In Massachusetts a journeyman electrician is someone who has completed 4 years in the electrical trade 8000 hours and has passed the exam,he can now work unsupervised and have and apprentice with him,

A master electrician has completed 5 years in the electrical trade and has passed the journeyman electricians exam and held his journeyman's license one full year , then he must take the masters exam pass it .

A master electrician can build his own electrical contracting firm with more than one employee.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Usually the JATC will get you a yellow ticket as an "inside wireman" beyond that, our local, requires you to take an pass the local county journeyman exam as part of the program.
> Our local doesn't have a "Master" ticket. We are all JW inside wireman.


John, I thought you guys have a state wide electrical contractors license "Master Electrician".


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> John, I thought you guys have a state wide electrical contractors license "Master Electrician".


Harry, 
It's a state wide EC license, you can be an engineer or even have some other endorsement to get it. No trade experience required so, we don't really call it a State Masters anymore.
We have no statewide Journeyman license.
The local counties, most of them, have Journeyman and Masters licenses with the same privileges you mentioned about contracting. 
The journeyman and masters licenses are only good for that county, we have 67 counties. So it gets rather expensive to maintain, so the state stepped in and came up with one that covers all of them.
Oh yeah, a statewide EC isn't required to hire a single journeyman, they can all be unlicensed helpers.
The Latin Builders Association, ABC and IEC helped us with that one. :wallbash:


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Not sure about NY, but in MI completion of a formal apprenticeship makes you eligible to take the state's journeyman electrician exam which you must pass to become licensed (you are _still_ considered an apprentice by the state until you pass this exam).

Then if you've held a journeyman's license for at least 2 years (while working under a master electrician - notarized documentation required) you are then eligible to take the state's master exam, which is very similar to the journeyman's exam, just harder. ...and your annual license fee is more $. 

In order to pull permits in MI, you must be an electrical contractor, and in order to be an EC you must either be a master or have a master in your full-time employ.


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

The apprenticeship will not make you a nyc master electrician. You need 10 years to qualify for the test.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Harry,
> It's a state wide EC license, you can be an engineer or even have some other endorsement to get it. No trade experience required so, we don't really call it a State Masters anymore.
> We have no statewide Journeyman license.
> The local counties, most of them, have Journeyman and Masters licenses with the same privileges you mentioned about contracting.
> ...


That just sucks..


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Journeymen electrician's are just low life's that happened to pass a test. Master electricians are like "Gods".


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## TQuade (Jan 22, 2010)

That's cause you haven't seen a real journeyman and some masters only have their licenses cause they passed a test


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## Kramsof (Dec 10, 2012)

compuradon said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm over here in NYC Local 3, beginning the apprenticeship. Does the apprenticeship program lead to a Master Electrician license, as well as Journeyman status, and if so what is the difference between Master Electrician and Journeyman? Thanks!
> 
> Tom



I have a masters license, or as it's called here a general supervising license and that is the one you want to get. You will be so much smarter and better at electricianing when you get the masters. I won't even let a regular jman look me in the eye.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I make them kneel and kiss my masters ring!


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

Mostly a Master's license (at least in MA) is a business license. 99% of employers couldn't care about their employees having one. Having one myself, it's great to end an argument with, even when I'm wrong. Plus, customers don't know any better. It makes them think I am that much better than the guy next to me (I am better)


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Harry,
> It's a state wide EC license, you can be an engineer or even have some other endorsement to get it. *No trade experience required *so, we don't really call it a State Masters anymore.
> We have no statewide Journeyman license.
> The local counties, most of them, have Journeyman and Masters licenses with the same privileges you mentioned about contracting.
> ...



That's not true. If you look at the application you had better have documented work experience. You are correct about the reciprocity fees amongst the counties, it does get pricey. I used to have Highlands, Polk, Orange, Osceola, Seminole, and Brevard.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

electricmalone said:


> Mostly a Master's license (at least in MA) is a business license. 99% of employers couldn't care about their employees having one. Having one myself, it's great to end an argument with, even when I'm wrong. Plus, customers don't know any better. It makes them think I am that much better than the guy next to me (I am better)


Not in MN, masters is earned, contractors is bought.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> Not in MN, masters is earned, contractors is bought.


In Minnesota everything has a price.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

backstay said:


> Not in MN, masters is earned, contractors is bought.


Similar to MI, however there is actually a test for the contractor's license too but no experience required providing you employ a master and it's only 40 questions so you gotta be a real dummy not to pass.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Michigan Master said:


> Similar to MI, however there is actually a test for the contractor's license too but no experience required providing you employ a master and it's only 40 questions so you gotta be a real dummy not to pass.


MN has a contractors test, it's trying to figure out the damn paper work to renew.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> MN has a contractors test, it's trying to figure out the damn paper work to renew.


It usually takes 4 to 8 hours to do.


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## sparkie2010 (Sep 15, 2009)

backstay said:


> I make them kneel and kiss my masters ring!


I want one.

Here in Florida you'll need a lot of hand sanitizer.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Masters are just do nothing licenses. 

It's like getting a license to sit at a desk.

J-men are the balls and get all the women.


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## sparkie2010 (Sep 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Masters are just do nothing licenses.
> 
> It's like getting a license to sit at a desk.
> 
> J-men are the balls and get all the women.


I don't know what your talking about. Don't be hating


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## Kramsof (Dec 10, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Masters are just do nothing licenses.
> 
> It's like getting a license to sit at a desk.
> 
> J-men are the balls and get all the women.



You think women want a dirty guy with spiderwebs stuck in his hair and carharts that doesn't make as much money? Chicks want a guy who makes the big bucks sitting at desks, signing permits, installing labels, and telling journeymen what to do.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Chicks dont want either of you.. they want plumbers.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm hindered by none of these pesky titles. I'm free to make up titles as I see fit. :thumbup:


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## Arc'n'Spark (Jul 21, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> I'm hindered by none of these pesky titles. I'm free to make up titles as I see fit. :thumbup:


You're just mad you're not a master roofer. :jester:


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Masters are just do nothing licenses.
> 
> It's like getting a license to sit at a desk.
> 
> J-men are the balls and get all the women.


Isn't "do nothing" the new American dream? 
I'm not only a master, I'm also a Journeyman. Does that mean I'm the balls, get all the women, and have the ability to do nothing??? Lol


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I get to sit for my NH masters in March. Pretty excited, but it is all down hill from there. :laughing:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Master knows, journeyman does. My 2cents


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Masters are just do nothing licenses.
> 
> It's like getting a license to sit at a desk.
> 
> J-men are the balls and get all the women.


Best post you have had all year.


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## Rhone 0629 (Nov 27, 2012)

Apprentice,journeyman,master its been a wild ride i have never had a easy day in the trade aiways learning.People expect more from a master AND JOURNEY MAN GET TO BLAME EVERYTHING on the guy with the licsen. just food for thought where do you guys fit?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

nolabama said:


> Best post you have had all year.


It's amazing what a few drinks will do. Liquid courage.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmalone said:


> Isn't "do nothing" the new American dream?
> I'm not only a master, I'm also a Journeyman. Does that mean I'm the balls, get all the women, and have the ability to do nothing??? Lol


In our state a master without journeyman license or journeymen working for him cannot do electrical work.:whistling2:

On the other hand a journeyman can do electric work and can run a small business. 

Lets be honest, the Mass masters has become just a contracting license.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Arc'n'Spark said:


> You're just mad you're not a master roofer. :jester:


 Master baster?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Master electrician = leader
Journeyman = follower
Apprentice = grunt


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Master electrician = Can't do a thing without a j-man
> Journeyman = the one who actually does electrical work
> Apprentice = grunt



Fify:whistling2:


Kidding aside that is how it is here, if you become a master and do not maintain your journeyman license you cannot work with the tools.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I've met master electricians who I wouldn't trust to lead water down a hill.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Fify:whistling2:
> 
> 
> Kidding aside that is how it is here, if you become a master and do not maintain your journeyman license you cannot work with the tools.


A masters license has different meanings for everyone. Here we need to have a masters license or have someone who is a master in order to get a contractors license.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> A masters license has different meanings for everyone. Here we need to have a masters license or have someone who is a master in order to get a contractors license.


Understood and I agree completely.

That is why a thread like this can never really go anywhere.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Understood and I agree completely.
> 
> That is why a thread like this can never really go anywhere.


I agree. In some places you just need only a pulse to own and run an EC business. In another region you practically need a doctorate degree and your first born.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> I agree. In some places you just need only a pulse to own and run an EC business.


Don't forget polished boots. :laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

In states like NJ the system is screwed up. The owner of a company needs a license but no one else.

For a small 1-3 man shop, it's ok because the owner is on the job. But for anything larger, the guy with the license never sets foot on any job. The guys who are doing the work aren't required to have a license of any kind.

A company could go and get a contract for a huge job and then man it with day laborers from the Home Depot parking lot. 

I guess the state never changed it because there is a big union marketshare in larger jobs that regulates the amount of journeymen and apprentices.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

BBQ said:


> In our state a master without journeyman license or journeymen working for him cannot do electrical work.:whistling2:
> 
> On the other hand a journeyman can do electric work and can run a small business.
> 
> Lets be honest, the Mass masters has become just a contracting license.


Abso-frickin-loutely. I got mine at 25 knowing I had zero intent of ever using it. I knew if i waited until i was married with kids id never get it. Mine is more for a just in case license. If my situation ever exists where I can utilize it, I can jump right away.


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## Arc'n'Spark (Jul 21, 2011)

Big John said:


> I've met master electricians who I wouldn't trust to lead water down a hill.


I resemble that remark! :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> Master baster?


I got to get one of those tomorrow. Can't find the one I use to drain brake fluid.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

who's brake fluid?


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## Kramsof (Dec 10, 2012)

Here you don't need to maintain a jman license if you got the supervisors in order to work with tools. Lots of douchtards still do cause they feel more important to show both licenses.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I obtained my masters license very early in my career just to have them, never thought I would go in business. But when I did go into business there was no rushing around trying to get a masters.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> I obtained my masters license very early in my career just to have them, never thought I would go in business. But when I did go into business there was no rushing around trying to get a masters.


Is your business required to employee a master electrican?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I got to get one of those tomorrow. Can't find the one I use to drain brake fluid.


Maybe the wife used it for your turkey..:laughing:


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

In Oregon its called a supervisors license. You are eligible to take the test after having worked in the field as a journeyman for 8000 hours


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

If you are local 3 your top level will be a Journeyman A card, the union will have nothing to do with you getting a license other than the education and experience you learned there. In the low points of NY you will use the 7+ years of proven experience you have to go before the board of examiners which consist of two licensed ECs and one inspector for NYC and the towns of Nassau. Suffolk will require 5+ yrs proven experience and your will be considered thru the department of Consumer Affairs. If you do obtain a Master Electrical license the union will ask that you shelve it if you wish to remain on the book.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> Is your business required to employee a master electrican?


Virginia, Maryland, Wash DC and West VA., YES.

But I got them originally to prove I could and to push for more money, the later worked for open shop employment, when I joined the union they frowned in J-men with a masters.


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## sparkie2010 (Sep 15, 2009)

If you took the time to get a license then that's one giant step forward in this trade.

Out here in Florida, no one bothers to educate them selves. It's a bunch of ditch diggers.

However Masters Rule
JW droll


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sparkie2010 said:


> If you took the time to get a license then that's one giant step forward in this trade.
> 
> Out here in Florida, no one bothers to educate them selves. It's a bunch of ditch diggers.
> 
> ...


Virginia is not much different. Many of the guys that bother to get them do not keep the fees up and lose them.


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## JDJ (Aug 9, 2011)

brian john said:


> Virginia is not much different. Many of the guys that bother to get them do not keep the fees up and lose them.


Brian, the 26 hands don't like people holding Master? Here in 666 land it's never really talked about except as a point to laugh when someone thinks it makes them more powerful than god.


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## azgard (Nov 25, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> If you are local 3 your top level will be a Journeyman A card, the union will have nothing to do with you getting a license other than the education and experience you learned there. In the low points of NY you will use the 7+ years of proven experience you have to go before the board of examiners which consist of two licensed ECs and one inspector for NYC and the towns of Nassau. Suffolk will require 5+ yrs proven experience and your will be considered thru the department of Consumer Affairs. If you do obtain a Master Electrical license the union will ask that you shelve it if you wish to remain on the book.


This, NYS doesn't have a statewide program and for the most part only downstate municipalities actually have an established licensing program with a few scattered here and there upstate.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

In Michigan the requirement for an electrical contractor’s license equally applies to electrical work performed by employees of a business or institution where there is a demonstrated need for full time electrical staff. 

On the electrical contractor’s application these are the choices under license type: electrical contractor, fire alarm contractor, sign contractor and facility electrical contractor. The last choice, facility electrical contractor, applies to factories, schools, hospitals, etc.

Having a master’s license can beneficial when the employer needs a qualifying master for the facility electrical contractor license; businesses must also have a contractor’s license in order to run a bona fide apprenticeship program.


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