# GFCI Nuisance Tripping



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bare ground very close to a hot or neutral terminal in the box. Close enough that either plugging in/unplugging a cord causes contact, or even thermal expansion/contraction.

Can also be caused by screw/nail penetration.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

All I can say is that there is alot of voodoo stuff that goes on with electronics. I had the same issue in my kitchen where an individual circuit was feeding one gfci receptacle. The smart phones when plugged into nearby receptacles- not the same cir. would randomly cause the gfci to trip. This only happened when my family comes down -- we don't have smart phones and never had the issue. They leave and the gfci stops causing problems. Odd but definitely something in the electronics.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Bare ground very close to a hot or neutral terminal in the box. Close enough that either plugging in/unplugging a cord causes contact, or even thermal expansion/contraction.
> 
> Can also be caused by screw/nail penetration.


It would have to be a hell of a situation to get 3 different screws/nails to hit wires in 3 different runs/locations when no drywall was added, only cabinets (would have to be the cabinet screws). 

As for the wire in the box, that was the first thing checked and nothing appeared to be close in any of the 9 boxes.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> All I can say is that there is alot of voodoo stuff that goes on with electronics. I had the same issue in my kitchen where an individual circuit was feeding one gfci receptacle. The smart phones when plugged into nearby receptacles- not the same cir. would randomly cause the gfci to trip. This only happened when my family comes down -- we don't have smart phones and never had the issue. They leave and the gfci stops causing problems. Odd but definitely something in the electronics.


If only I can get the customer to believe that this kind of stuff happens. In all honesty, I hope she calls in another electrician leaving him baffled as well. Or I wish he would give the same voodoo interference excuse I gave. :laughing:

Maybe if they actually start logging it they will figure out the pattern on their own. Who knows.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

svh19044 said:


> .......As for the wire in the box, that was the first thing checked and nothing appeared to be close in any of the 9 boxes.


Nicked insulation caused by poor sheath-stripping technique........?

VERY hard to see in the back of the box.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Nicked insulation caused by poor sheath-stripping technique........?
> 
> VERY hard to see in the back of the box.


Yea, it just so happens that must have been a bad day for me and the first time in 10 years that I must have accidentally nicked 9 separate wires causing this to happen. :laughing:

I admit, stranger things have happened! But you could read the original post to see what was already done...Otherwise, that would have been plausible I guess.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

It's not "voodoo stuff" at all. Everything can be explained with science and this is definitely ghosts, likely of the poltergeist type. Tell them to call Ghost Busters or a Catholic priest and have the house cleaned.


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## 2dogs (Feb 7, 2014)

Maybe she thinks your hot and is pressing the test button just so you will come back!


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## Darrinf205 (Mar 25, 2013)

I had a amateur radio operator with a hand held radio talking on it and would walk by a gfi and trip it. and sometimes turn The motion lights on around the house


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Electronics can definitely be sensitive to radio transmission: I've heard of guys tripping GFCIs with walkie-talkies, and have seen first-hand the apocalypse that occurred when I was stupid enough to key up a radio while standing in front of a PLC panel. 

My cell phone sends out bursts that are powerful enough that they cause noise in nearby speakers. Absolutely seems possible to me that smart phones or something similar would cause nuisance tripping.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm I missing something? 

Why would a GFI trip for a problem on the line side?


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## Mugs (Jan 29, 2013)

sarness said:


> I'm I missing something?
> 
> Why would a GFI trip for a problem on the line side?


In my understanding, GFCI's trip because they're designed to sense miniscule differences in current magnitude between the line and the neutral. Whether the receptacle is on its own (i.e. wired only using the line side terminals on the receptacle) or has other receptacles 'downstream' on the same circuit (wired into the load terminals of said GFCI) should make no difference to how and when it trips.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I had the unfortunate experience of keying up a 2-way radio in front of a panel in a doctor's office full of GFCI breakers. They all popped off like firecrackers on Chinese New Year.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

This one time at band camp a kid was getting shocked and the gfci wouldn't trip, so I had to use psychokinesis to force it to trip and save the kids life.










My test tube parents taught me to only use my powers for good doing, and not evil doing.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

FrunkSlammer said:


> This one time at band camp a kid was getting shocked and the gfci wouldn't trip, so I had to use psychokinesis to force it to trip and save the kids life. My test tube parents taught me to only use my powers for good doing, and not evil doing.


God you're an idiot. I bet you read your old posts and touch yourself. Because you're so clever and whimsical


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> God you're an idiot. I bet you read your old posts and touch yourself. Because you're so clever and whimsical


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

sarness said:


> I'm I missing something?
> 
> Why would a GFI trip for a problem on the line side?


It shouldn't but radio signals can interfere with it's operation. As I said earlier a phone charger and laptop plugged into a different circuit were popping my gfci in the kitchen. Never trips until the family comes over


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

RF I understand, it can mess with a lot of things, seen it before. 

But if there was an outlet upstream of the GFCI and you tested it with a GFCI tester, it shouldn't trip the GFCI.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

sarness said:


> RF I understand, it can mess with a lot of things, seen it before.
> 
> But if there was an outlet upstream of the GFCI and you tested it with a GFCI tester, it shouldn't trip the GFCI.


I'm not sure what you are saying. The GFCI's are at every location (no load side protection), and only wired on the line side. So testing one does not trip the next with the tester.

So it looks like I am just going to stick with the RF explanation for now. I'd hate for the GFCI Breakers to still have this issue, then they have to run to the basement to reset the breaker. It just wouldn't make sense. And if that did happen, I would be back to replace the receptacles once again. 

What a headache.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Find a strong radio transmitter like others have said will trip GFCI's, and keep it with you.. next time you can't explain something, pull out the radio and start tripping receptacles. :laughing:


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## jrclen (Oct 23, 2007)

Pull off the load side wires for a time and see what happens? Would your customer be willing to live with the three gfci recept outlets for a while? Add them back one circuit at a time. Just a thought.


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## Pharon (Jan 20, 2014)

svh19044 said:


> The final plan is to pull the GFCI receptacles, put normal receptacles in, and put the 3 circuits on GFCI breakers.


I'm not sure that meets Code. 210.8(A)(6) requires ground fault protection for "personnel," which is the 5mA current differential threshold between hot and neutral that trips a GFI receptacle. GF breakers, on the other hand, are for protection of equipment, and are set at 30mA.

Maybe there's a Code exception somewhere that allows a GF breaker for kitchens with regular receptacles, but I don't know of one.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Pharon said:


> I'm not sure that meets Code. 210.8(A)(6) requires ground fault protection for "personnel," which is the 5mA current differential threshold between hot and neutral that trips a GFI receptacle. GF breakers, on the other hand, are for protection of equipment, and are set at 30mA.
> 
> Maybe there's a Code exception somewhere that allows a GF breaker for kitchens with regular receptacles, but I don't know of one.


Sorry but gfci breakers are set the same as gfci receptacles


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You are thinking of gfp which is 30ma. Gfci is 5 ma breaker or receptacle


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## Pharon (Jan 20, 2014)

Ah, just looked it up, thx - guess the CB's have rating options for both personnel and equipment - good to know.


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

svh19044 said:


> I'm not sure what you are saying. The GFCI's are at every location (no load side protection), and only wired on the line side. So testing one does not trip the next with the tester.


I know what your saying, what I was trying to say is that all the problems people were coming up with for the nuisance tripping. They would be typical if it was on the load side instead of the line side, the RF seems more plausible.


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## jrclen (Oct 23, 2007)

svh19044 said:


> The GFCI's are at every location (no load side protection), and only wired on the line side.


Oh I missed that part. Then I'm stumped.


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