# Need advice, am I in any trouble?



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

So here's the deal, I'm in the Union and just took a call recently. But I've also got all the paperwork done to run my own business including a listing in the Yellow Pages. I honestly did not think I would get a call till next year at the earliest and my unemployment was going to run out so was hedging my bets by getting a company going. Man's gotta survive. I'm not a Union signatory contractor either as I hadn't decided what to do. I've also pulled one permit and will need to do a little more work to final out that job. I'm not planning on running a business on the side while working for my new boss. Planning on putting a message that the company is still forming and to call back next year on the voice mail. Can I get in trouble? Am I doing anything wrong at this time? Do I need to talk to someone in the hall or just not worry about it? Thanks for the advice!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Firstly, calm down. You are not in trouble. There is not a person who could blame you for doing what you had to do to try to secure a future for yourself. I would contact the business agent at your hall and explain and just listen to what he says. Most of them are family men and understand. If he gives you a rash of you know what, which I doubt he should...or would, let us know. What local is it? And good luck.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> So here's the deal, I'm in the Union and just took a call recently. But I've also got all the paperwork done to run my own business including a listing in the Yellow Pages. I honestly did not think I would get a call till next year at the earliest and my unemployment was going to run out so was hedging my bets by getting a company going. Man's gotta survive. I'm not a Union signatory contractor either as I hadn't decided what to do. I've also pulled one permit and will need to do a little more work to final out that job. I'm not planning on running a business on the side while working for my new boss. Planning on putting a message that the company is still forming and to call back next year on the voice mail. Can I get in trouble? Am I doing anything wrong at this time? Do I need to talk to someone in the hall or just not worry about it? Thanks for the advice!



It all depends on what your intentions with your business are. What are your intentions? Union or not?

Riveters advice is good but tread lightly. Your walking a fine line.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Firstly, calm down. You are not in trouble. There is not a person who could blame you for doing what you had to do to try to secure a future for yourself. I would contact the business agent at your hall and explain and just listen to what he says. Most of them are family men and understand. If he gives you a rash of you know what, which I doubt he should...or would, let us know. What local is it? And good luck.


Agreed. I spoke with the hall and was told they would never stop a guy from doing what he has to do to feed his family, but they want you to be upfront with them. Most guys are hurting right now, and anyone who tries to beat you down over this problem isn't even worth the conversation.....


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

If this contractor keeps me working the business is mothballed. If I get laid off in December and I'm looking at one to two years on the books then I'll look at getting the business going and explore being a Union contractor but no guarantees on that one.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> If this contractor keeps me working the business is mothballed. If I get laid off in December and I'm looking at one to two years on the books then I'll look at getting the business going and explore being a Union contractor but no guarantees on that one.


While you are working for another contractor make use of your off time. Learn your marketing strategies and other business related things. If you just mothball your dream while someone else is paying you, you don't really want your own business.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> While you are working for another contractor make use of your off time. Learn your marketing strategies and other business related things. If you just mothball your dream while someone else is paying you, you don't really want your own business.


That might be somewhat true but it's tough out there. Working at a fair wage for a decent company isn't something to sniff at. I'm sure that I'll be outa work again someday and I'll have more experience and be able to better get a business going. 

Sounds like no one thinks I'll be in heaps of trouble with the Union. Honestly my local is pretty decent. I always tell young guys to get in the apprenticeship program even though I didn't get to go that route.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> That might be somewhat true but it's tough out there. Working at a fair wage for a decent company isn't something to sniff at. I'm sure that I'll be outa work again someday and I'll have more experience and be able to better get a business going.
> 
> Sounds like no one thinks I'll be in heaps of trouble with the Union. Honestly my local is pretty decent. I always tell young guys to get in the apprenticeship program even though I didn't get to go that route.


Getting a legit one man shop going to keep yourself a float is one thing.
The minute you start doing commercial work and employing people non-union that's another.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> It all depends on what your intentions with your business are. What are your intentions? Union or not?
> 
> Riveters advice is good but tread lightly. Your walking a fine line.





slickvic277 said:


> Getting a legit one man shop going to keep yourself a float is one thing.
> The minute you start doing commercial work and employing people non-union that's another.


Often the cost of being union in the first year or two can be crippling.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> Often the cost of being union in the first year or two can be crippling.



Absolutely. That's why he needs to be up front with the local. I know my local will work with guy's who are trying to get off the ground. But they don't take it to lightly with guy's who are trying to double dip and operate off the radar.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

You may lose your unemployment since they may decide you're employed........ self-employed.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I had checked with them and as long as you are actively seeking full time employment they let you collect unemployment. If you make profit you have to show that on your weekly claims just like work. 

Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm just going to keep everything on the down low. Mothball the business for now. Enjoy my new job!


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I'd keep that sh1t under wraps, just like you're thinking.

My rule is, 'no good deed goes unpunished.' If you go and confess before the proper time, it could come back upon you.

Recently, another foreman on the job came to me for advice, and I freely gave it, confidently, trying to help out. We thought we'd saved the bacon together and made a change to what we thought were bad plans. Well, he shoulda RFI'd it, and I should not have offered advice, because now he has to do a bunch of rework, and its partially my fault, but there's no paper trail for him to fall back on, he'll have to eat a week's work, and I feel like a low-down dirty bass-turd. SUCKY SUCKY. I'll go in and help him on my own time because I feel bad about it.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

It's better to ask for forgiveness rather than for permission.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Typical union greed. You want your cake and eat it too. If a non union contractor was" doing what he had to feed his family", the union would not allow him to bend any rules, but they'll do it for their own members. Typical


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Typical union greed. You want your cake and eat it too. If a non union contractor was" doing what he had to feed his family", the union would not allow him to bend any rules, but they'll do it for their own members. Typical


You bet your ass.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Typical union greed. You want your cake and eat it too. If a non union contractor was" doing what he had to feed his family", the union would not allow him to bend any rules, but they'll do it for their own members. Typical


Miller ex has prepared some tissues for you....


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> If a non union contractor was" doing what he had to feed his family", the union would not allow him to bend any rules,


Around here the non-union contractors are left alone. Not that I expect you to believe me.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Typical union greed. You want your cake and eat it too. If a non union contractor was" doing what he had to feed his family", the union would not allow him to bend any rules, but they'll do it for their own members. Typical




Eh, not really. Outside of a handful of locals on the east coast and a handful of locals on the west coast the contractors get away with murder. Falling behind on H&W payments, violating conditions as described in the contract, not adhering to the mandated ratio's, illegal hiring, illegal layoff's, abuse of lesser classifications, maintaining their own "referral" list, practicing unauthorized furloughs, and all type of other sh*t that goes on.

But I wouldn't expect you to know any of this because *YOUR NOT UNION*.

The only one here that really knows what running a union shop is like is Brian John. And from what I gather the local he's signatory too is one of the finer locals in the country, so this sh*t doesn't go on. Yet, he seems to have done well for himself, even with that overpriced labor.:whistling2:

What all you self-employed guy's fail to realize is, the locals always help there members and contractors as long as there legit and up front about there concerns and intentions. And the non-union contractors should stop bitchin' about the union. As long as your legit and your men are happy you really don't have nothing to sweat, do you?

I mean, after all, we only make up about 13% of the market share.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Any one who is deeply anti-union and would continue to enter a union topic thread may just be searching for a better/different way. I never rule anyone out...even a dissenter. When someone says "I just don't agree with you", I hear, "I just need more information". However, we can have different opinions and still be civil...I think.:thumbsup:


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

[ 
The only one here that really knows what running a union shop is like is Brian John. And from what I gather the local he's signatory too is one of the finer locals in the country, so this sh*t doesn't go on. Yet, he seems to have done well for himself, even with that overpriced labor.:whistling2:



Um.. I know what its like.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

dawgs said:


> Um.. I know what its like.



Considering your a fairly new member here, your name didn't come to mind.

By the way, that's the most creative way I have ever seen a post quoted here.:blink:


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Not real good with all that.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

dawgs said:


> Not real good with all that.



Highlight the section you want quoted then wrap the highlighted section with the quote function. It's the fifth one from the left.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

As long as you have the proper paperwork, I would take your call and still do the sidework as long as your not competing with one of your local signatory contractors. You can't build a business overnight. Most BA's will overlook the matter. Good luck.


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

would this work?
Just hire a guy that is single and is living at home with a few years experience (low maintenance kind of guy) to front your business pay him well get your name out there build the business . more than likely your not going to compete with union contractors for a bit. While your working throw all the profits into the business and live off your union pay than when your ready you'll have a name around town some business equity and a good guy on the payroll. Just wondering because this is what I was thinking of doing.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> As long as you have the proper paperwork, I would take your call and still do the sidework as long as your not competing with one of your local signatory contractors. You can't build a business overnight. Most BA's will overlook the matter. Good luck.


Still breaking the agreement regardless.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

That agreement doesn't mean squat anymore. Employers do as they wish. The only thing in that agrrement that stands is the pay.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Not saying nobody bends the rules. I could care less that some of our guys side work residential. But if they start doing comm. ind. I will have a problem with that as they are competing then.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Thats usually what you'll see.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

If thats your pic it's probably your fart. that is one hell of a shocker.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Rude. You got nerve. I'll have to call a therapist to erase that pic from my memory.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I need to find the Men in Black to wave that wand aroung my eyes.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Loose Neutral said:


> I need to find the Men in Black to wave that wand aroung my eyes.


:laughing::laughing:

Make me un-see it. :thumbup:


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Are you two related


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Bob's Badger said:


> I need a prostitute


Why does that not come as surprise, I imagine a guy like you has to pay a lot for even gutter living skank hoe. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Loose Neutral said:


> Are you two related


No :no:


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

He'd have no problem getting a gooney goo hoo.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

This shop is the best I've ever worked for. I'm going to work hard for these guys and try to make them some money, I always do that but some places help you help them and some just seem to want to hold you back. Head and shoulders over the last two Union contractors I worked for and way better than the non-union ones. I hope the work lasts through the winter.

There won't be any moonlighting. Business is mothballed until I'm not employed. I wouldn't feel right about working for someone and running a non-union shop on the side. If I get laid off I'll talk to the local and see what it takes to be a signatory and if it's competitive for a one man shop. I'm hoping to stay with this company.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> This shop is the best I've ever worked for. I'm going to work hard for these guys and try to make them some money, I always do that but some places help you help them and some just seem to want to hold you back. Head and shoulders over the last two Union contractors I worked for and way better than the non-union ones. I hope the work lasts through the winter.



Sounds like a winner :thumbsup: Now keep your mouth shut about your "venture" until your ready. In the meantime work hard and good luck.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Excellent advice!


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Getting a legit one man shop going to keep yourself a float is one thing.
> The minute you start doing commercial work and employing people non-union that's another.


 
God how I love doing commercial work(RAT STYLE):laughing:.........
Good luck Nitro. I wouldn't bother with leaving a message saying the company is still forming. Customers want someone yesterday if not sooner when they call. I just got back from a late afternoon call because the guy wanted it done today. I myself could never go back to working for someone. I truly love electrical work now that I decide how I want to do things. Hope thing work out the way you want.:thumbsup:


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## SlickWill613 (Sep 4, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Getting a legit one man shop going to keep yourself a float is one thing.
> The minute you start doing commercial work and employing people non-union that's another.


Damn right.


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## Abundant amp'z (May 4, 2010)

I am doing the same thing.....only the union will be the last to know. I would love to be a union contractor but its too expensive right now.....good luck


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> So here's the deal, I'm in the Union and just took a call recently. But I've also got all the paperwork done to run my own business including a listing in the Yellow Pages. I honestly did not think I would get a call till next year at the earliest and my unemployment was going to run out so was hedging my bets by getting a company going. Man's gotta survive. I'm not a Union signatory contractor either as I hadn't decided what to do. I've also pulled one permit and will need to do a little more work to final out that job. I'm not planning on running a business on the side while working for my new boss. Planning on putting a message that the company is still forming and to call back next year on the voice mail. Can I get in trouble? Am I doing anything wrong at this time? Do I need to talk to someone in the hall or just not worry about it? Thanks for the advice!


 Check your bylaws. Ours state that you can hold a license at any time but you can't have a business permit *while on the referral list*. This means that you CAN have a business permit when you are working or if you don't sign the list.

I don't know if the hall checks on this in this type of economy anyway.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Getting a legit one man shop going to keep yourself a float is one thing.
> The minute you start doing commercial work and employing people non-union that's another.


How is he expected to ever do commercial work then? No startup company like nitro's can afford to be union, the only way for him to make it is to go non-union for a while.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

No worries, I'm happy working for this company for now. If I get laid off I've got something to fall back on.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> No worries, I'm happy working for this company for now. If I get laid off I've got something to fall back on.


I'd still suggest checking your bylaws and talking to some other people, I'm sure there are plenty of others who have wondered the same thing. It couldn't hurt to know the facts for the future.


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