# Going union this far in...



## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

Just quit my non union job of a little over 2 years. Hourly wage and benefits were not going up despite my billed hourly rate continuing to rise. Got a $1 raise over the past year. Talked the the boss and the response was along the lines of "well, I can't really increase your pay anymore until you get your jman card."

I was put into a service truck one month into the job after the last jman was fired. It started out I was always paired with a jman for the first 3 months, I would usually run parts first thing in the morning then meet the work at the jobsite with the jman the rest of the day. Slowly started turning into jman showing me a resi job for a 1/2hr then turning me loose on it while he spends the rest of the day at a different job. That was probably about 2 days a week for the first 8 months or so.

The work was probably a mix of 80% commercial/industrial and 30% resi.
The last year it started tuning into 50% of the work I was doing was solo, service changes, panel change outs, can light installs, resi remodels, lighting retrofits. Most of which a journeyman never even saw any of the work.

75% of the time I am doing the same work as a jman but only making $7 more than when I started 2 years prior. And i'm currently making the same as a first year second term union apprentice. I had to provide every tool on the service truck too, boss only provides a 1/2"-2" ko set, benders, ppe and consumables. Brought all this up to the boss and his response didn't change just that i was worth what I was being paid. Told him he would have to find a new man and dragged up. 

I need 1 year and 8 months more work as an electrical trainee to get my 8000 hours to sit for my jman test. I'm currently looking for a local non union job but everyone seems to only be hiring journeyman. 

I applied to the IBEW in late 2015, took the aptitude test, had an interview, got a 89/100 interview score, and was put on the list. 2 years and I never heard back.

My local will let you skip the aptitude test if you have over 4000 documented hours in the industry, however I am unsure what they will recognize for prior training, as I am halfway through the WECA trainee program. If I have to start as a first year it really wouldn't be worth it for me, it would take me 3x longer to get my jman card. Id probably be better off working for a nonunion shop until I get my jman card.

How far will they let you advance thru the apprenticeship if you have gone through equivalent training? Im guessing you have to take their apprenticeship tests and see where you end up?


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

At eighteen months you're too close to being a j-man to disrupt things.

It may seem unfair to you, but the cost of doing business in California has gone straight up.

Your employer actually is paying more for your talent -- but it's going to the State of California and other players. ( These outlays are you "above the line" income. )

You are taxed -- on your 1040 based on "Income" as defined and adjusted by the Feds and State.

But your cost to your employer -- your TRUE income -- is very much greater. 

This "above-the-line" fraction is Pre-Spent for you by Big Government.

You earned it, but they pre-spent it for you -- because you don't quite know how to spend your own income. Don't worry. You're not alone. Big Government pre-spends a massive fraction of everyone's income.

Because Big Government pre-spent your money, they don't include it in your adjusted gross income, or even in your gross income. The pre-spent income was taxed at 100% -- that's why.

Young studs on the rise have a hard time wrapping their minds around the above concept. They take at straight value that their pay checks actually reflect their income -- and consequence expense to their employer. 

In California, these days, it's nothing for pre-spent// above-the-line income to equal 30 to 40 percent of your 1040 numbers. 

No employer is going to sit down and go over these facts of business life. For starters, they can't afford for their competition to know how bad their 'labor overhead' is. That's another term for the same numbers.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I guess, in retrospect, it would have been better to get another job before you got pissy and quit the one you had.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

How far you can 'test in' to the union all depends on how bad they are hurting for guys with some experience.

I tested into the Union as a journeyman the last time I got in after having given up my previous book many years beforehand.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Quitting a job before you have a job to go to is beyond foolish unless you live rent free.

As noted, testing in may not happen depending on how bad the union needs to fill spots for electricians.

Then is a chance you do not get in at all at least on the first try.


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Get your ticket and organize in. Where’s the issue? Find another contractor to work for until you get your ticket if you have to. If every shop is only hiring licensed electricians as you say, keep pounding the pavement until you find a shop that does need an apprentice. 

As far as your questions about accepting your training and such, your local hall will have answers for you. 

But the biggest thing for you is to do whatever is necessary - even if it sucks, or “isn’t fair” - is to get your ticket. After that, you’re your own man, nobody can take it from you. Head down, nose to the grindstone. I’d tell you what I went through to get mine at age 30, but it’s a long story. Just another year and a half and you’re there; that’s nothing compared to the rest of your career. 

Good luck in California. I wouldn’t want to live there!


----------



## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

wildleg said:


> I guess, in retrospect, it would have been better to get another job before you got pissy and quit the one you had.


I wasn't exactly in a terrible position to quit the job. My weekend job has turned into my full time job for the time being, I make $7 an hour more doing welding and fabrication. I know Its not ideal as the hours aren't counting towards my jman card, but its clean work and guaranteed 40+ hours.


----------



## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

ppsh said:


> I wasn't exactly in a terrible position to quit the job. My weekend job has turned into my full time job for the time being, I make $7 an hour more doing welding and fabrication. I know Its not ideal as the hours aren't counting towards my jman card, but its clean work and guaranteed 40+ hours.


IMO I would have stuck it out to get the jman card. The goal was to get that certification. Then you can "throw your weight around" a bit more. I never got a jman's card, although I tried repeatedly back in the 1980's and 90's, but wasn't going to happen unless I left St. Louis completely. Times have changed for the better and they can change back. The more credentials you have the better.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I dont think the pay was the real problem.
I see this all of the time. You did very well working with a journeyman to the point the boss decided to let you have some experience working less supervised. I see that as an opportunity. I see that as valuable training.
There is always going to be some slip between pay and ability. you are learning a trade. The second year in most people get some confidence if they are brought along correctly.
Third year you get real cocky and see people coming in that have less experience than you. You start to believe you know everything and almost become dangerous.
4th year most have a local license if its offered and you start understanding that you dont really know every single thing.
5 years in, you have more responsibility and become very concerned that our trade is so vast that you cant possibly know everything. 
5 to 10 years in are good. You are making good money and becoming established. 

I believe you were in the middle of a good situation and didnt see it as an investment in yourself.

Tell us more about this clean welding work. :smile:


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> I dont think the pay was the real problem.
> I see this all of the time. You did very well working with a journeyman to the point the boss decided to let you have some experience working less supervised. I see that as an opportunity. I see that as valuable training.
> There is always going to be some slip between pay and ability. you are learning a trade. The second year in most people get some confidence if they are brought along correctly.
> Third year you get real cocky and see people coming in that have less experience than you. You start to believe you know everything and almost become dangerous.
> ...



30 years in the trade and I am vastly more aware of more things I don’t know than I have been aware of at any previous point in my career. 

The more you know, the more you know that you don’t know.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

You just don't see old welders.

Iron work burns you out, which is why the pay is so high for young men.

Welding outfits hardly need any office staff -- meaning that everyone over the age of 40 is edged out.

A fellow with good eyes can become a proficient welder in less than six months with modern equipment. Then what?

To get top pay a welder has to REALLY travel -- as in natural gas pipelines.

Still, you don't see (many) old guys on such crews. 

Check out the average age on the Alaskan pipeline project.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I remember that every welder that we called out of the hall that were travelers looked like Duck Dynasty/ Lynyrd Skynyrd guys. They might have been 40 but looked like they were 60. :sad:


----------

