# 4160VAC Shock



## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

There was an incident at the plant I worked in before heading to Iraq. They were replacing an old 200hp 4160VAC wound rotor motor, with a new 350hp 480VAC induction motor. In the process the old GE Limitamp motor starter had to be removed, and a new soft starter installed. The only remaining Master Electrician went to do the job, and was given a laborer from the quarry with NO electrical experience or training of any kind to "help" him.

The starter is 8' tall, 3' deep, and about 12' long. It is seperated into 3 seperate compartments; control, contactors, and resistor grids. The laborer had been tasked with removing the contactors, while the electrician was working in the control compartment. Upon removing all the contactors, and getting to the point he was told to stop at, he decided to be a little more "helpful." He then removed the panel that was clearly marked "DANGER 4160VAC" exposing the incoming bus work. Upon seeing the "funny-looking" bars, he decided "they must mount the cabinet to the wall, so I will start taking the bolts out now to help speed things up".

Upon placing a ratchet on one of the mounting bolts, the current entered his right thumb, went through his arm, across his shoulders and down his left arm, exiting his left index finger (he had his hand on the interior cabinet wall). The only "PPE" he was wearing was safety glasses, and cotton glove liners, and he was on an insulating rubber mat. The shock sent him across the room, saving him from the Arc Flash that resulted when the ratchet came in contact with the cabinet wall.

He actually walked away from the whole thing....they kept him in the hospital overnight for observation, but he is fine! 

The starter disconnect was open and locked/tagged, and the incoming bus that ran behind the enclosure never should have been exposed IF THE WORK WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN it would not have been exposed, or a qualified electrician would have known what the bus was.

I spent the last 3 months I was employed there compiling and wrtiting a very comprehensive electrical safety policy, and had it been followed this would not have happened.:whistling2:


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## headrec (Feb 25, 2008)

Damn. Scary stuff.


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

He is very lucky to be alive. 277 put me in the hospital for 3 days, I can just imagine 4160.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

That guy is lucky to be alive.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I had a similar experience at 2400V in 2003. Left me out of breath, heart beating wacky, and feeling like I'd just run a marathon. I'm not exactly Mr. Safety, but I don't do hot work without protection anymore.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I'm not exactly Mr. Safety, but I don't do hot work without protection anymore.


Full PPE as per NFPA 70E, doing the calcs and all? Well, good luck to you sir.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Full PPE as per NFPA 70E, doing the calcs and all? Well, good luck to you sir.


No, I use the good sense I was born with. No calculator required.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Full PPE as per NFPA 70E, doing the calcs and all? Well, good luck to you sir.


Shouldn't have to do the calcs as this is SUPPOSE to be done for you and labeled. All software driven and GOOD field information.


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## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

Lack of training...not lack of PPE, was the issue here. 

This guy is just a laborer who's main function is to shovel piles of stone into a wheelbarrow. People think we are arrogant  but this is just another reason why ONLY electricians should perform electrical work, whether it is in a dwelling or an industrial plant. The cover to that bus never should have been removed, and had an electrican been doing the job, it wouldn't have been. An electrician at minimum would have known what it was, and known not to touch it without putting a tick-tracer on it first!

It frustrates me because I spent a lot of time and effort putting together a safety policy, that had it been followed this would not have happened.

The guy was definitely lucky, I heard an old saying once that has stuck with me;

*Everyone is born with a bag full of luck, and an empty bag of experience......the trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag runs out!"*

He definitely added some experience, but hopefully didn't empty his luck bag in doing so.


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## Faultfinder1 (Apr 21, 2009)

I can totally relate to your frustration in seeing someone get hurt because they didn't follow the safety guidelines that you wrote.
Over the years i have written many such policies/guidelines only to see guys ignoring them and getting hurt. Everytime it happened the Corporate bigwigs questioned the policies, not the reasons why the existing policies weren't being followed! Now that's dern frustrating!
I guess it only goes to show - all of the rules in the world are worthless if no one follows them. Strict supervision may be the key. 

www.faultlocating.com


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

TheRick said:


> There was an incident at the plant I worked in before heading to Iraq. They were replacing an old 200hp 4160VAC wound rotor motor, with a new 350hp 480VAC induction motor. In the process the old GE Limitamp motor starter had to be removed, and a new soft starter installed. The only remaining Master Electrician went to do the job, and was given a laborer from the quarry with NO electrical experience or training of any kind to "help" him.
> 
> The starter is 8' tall, 3' deep, and about 12' long. It is seperated into 3 seperate compartments; control, contactors, and resistor grids. The laborer had been tasked with removing the contactors, while the electrician was working in the control compartment. Upon removing all the contactors, and getting to the point he was told to stop at, he decided to be a little more "helpful." He then removed the panel that was clearly marked "DANGER 4160VAC" exposing the incoming bus work. Upon seeing the "funny-looking" bars, he decided "they must mount the cabinet to the wall, so I will start taking the bolts out now to help speed things up".
> 
> ...


Whoever assigned a laborer, and his boss, and his boss, and his boss, should all be prosecuted for attempted murder. And until this happens and some white-collar number crunchers and opportunists end up behind bars getting plowed by bubba, the overall attitude about jobsite safety will never improve.

In the meantime , we'll keep filling jail cells with low level street dealers who sell pot to our college kids, who will in turn become the next generation of... people assigning laborers to do electrical work.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

*safety before safety*

If put in a position to use inexperienced helpers than right from the start you know you have to think at least three steps ahead. 1 your safety 2 the helpers safety 3 both of your safety together.Over the years I have supervied more walking idiots than skilled help.At one point in the area I was working in western NC I would pray in my truck every morning that all would go home safe every nite.And as was stated in the opener,the guy was just trying to do a little better.Put a million miles of wire in.Can't even tell you all the places. Seen three men badly injured and can never forget there faces.


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## Faultfinder1 (Apr 21, 2009)

it is sad, isn't it? most of these guys (or gals) that get injured are only trying to do their best with the knowledge that they have. I'm quite sure that none of them intentionally made the mistake that got them hurt - however I've seen a lot of workers, and mostly its the older experianced people, that ignore the safety rules based only on the fact that they've never been hurt before doing what they do. 

Luck is not a safety technique

www.faultlocating.com


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

Cotton glove liners are probably what saved his life. I got real used to wearing cotton gloves when working around hot stuff. You still do not touch things, but if you accidently do the gloves may be the difference between going home or not.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No, I use the good sense I was born with.


Doing hot work at 2400 volts without protection seems to contradict that notion. :blink:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Where was the Supervision? Man that would be a bad day for sure. Lack of Supervision...

Tom


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Even experienced people take stupid unnecessary risks from time to time. Just not worth it.


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## Faultfinder1 (Apr 21, 2009)

gilbequick said:


> Even experienced people take stupid unnecessary risks from time to time. Just not worth it.


I couldn't agree more. Electricity is not forgiving.

Now, whoever mentioned using cotton glove liners for protection on live circuits - I couldn't disagree more. It may make you feel safe and may have worked out okay for you up til now, but that's a risk I wouldn't take. 4160 volts would have gone through cotton gloves without ever looking back! IMO the ONLY protection if you have to do hot work is tested rubber gloves, rated well above your intended voltage, and covered with leather protectors to avoid holes. I know it is a pain in the butt to work like that, but at least you'll go home every day.

www.faultlocating.com


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

TheRick said:


> Lack of training...not lack of PPE, was the issue here.
> 
> This guy is just a laborer who's main function is to shovel piles of stone into a wheelbarrow. People think we are arrogant  but this is just another reason why ONLY electricians should perform electrical work, whether it is in a dwelling or an industrial plant. The cover to that bus never should have been removed, and had an electrican been doing the job, it wouldn't have been. An electrician at minimum would have known what it was, and known not to touch it without putting a tick-tracer on it first!
> 
> ...


Lack of training says it all


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