# NY EC fined after arc flash for lack of PPE and training



## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Train your guys, buy the PPE, it is required by OSHA and they will fine you. 
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=16728


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Zog said:


> Train your guys, buy the PPE, it is required by OSHA and they will fine you.
> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=16728


*BUFFALO, N.Y.* -- The U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has cited O'Connell Electric Co. Inc. of Victor, N.Y., for 14 alleged serious violations of safety standards after a company employee was burned in a May 18 electrical arc flash on the North Campus of the State University of New York (SUNY) Buffalo. The electrical contractor faces a total of $88,200 in proposed fines.

The incident occurred as O'Connell employees were performing maintenance on 34,500 volt electrical switches and transformers in the basement of Baldy Hall. OSHA's inspection found that one of the switches had not first been de-energized, as required, before employees began their work, nor had the switches been properly barricaded and tagged to prevent exposure to live electrical parts.

OSHA also determined that the injured worker and other employees had not been adequately informed about and supplied with adequate personal protective clothing. In addition, they had not been adequately trained in electrical safe work practices and in proper hazardous energy control procedures.

"This is a clear example of the grave consequences that can result when basic electrical safeguards are not provided and used," said Arthur Dube, OSHA's area director in Buffalo. "Electricity can injure and kill almost instantly, which makes it vital that power sources be de-energized and locked out, and workers be properly trained and equipped before electrical work is performed."

OSHA issues serious citations when death or serious physical harm is likely to result from hazards about which the employer knew or should have known.


http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=16728
Having his Electricians working on live 34,500 volt stuff is crazy.

And his Electricians probly did not have any HIGH voltage training


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> ...Having his Electricians working on live 34,500 volt stuff is crazy.
> 
> And his Electricians probly did not have any HIGH voltage training


 That's the part that jumped out at me. Who the flying f*** just starts tinkering around in 34.5kV gear without knowing _exactly_ what they are doing and how to do it safely? It's not a light switch. You're not gonna flip through a book you found at Lowes and repair the damn thing.

What's next? Do-it-yourself bomb disposal?

-John


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Big John said:


> That's the part that jumped out at me. Who the flying f*** just starts tinkering around in 34.5kV gear without knowing _exactly_ what they are doing and how to do it safely? It's not a light switch. You're not gonna flip through a book you found at Lowes and repair the damn thing.
> 
> What's next? Do-it-yourself bomb disposal?
> 
> -John


YES. Just cut the blue wire. Or is it the red one?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Typically you have higher arc flash hazard levels on 480V systems than you do on a 34.5kV system. So don't let the voltages here mislead you.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Big John said:


> That's the part that jumped out at me. Who the flying f*** just starts tinkering around in 34.5kV gear without knowing _exactly_ what they are doing and how to do it safely? It's not a light switch. You're not gonna flip through a book you found at Lowes and repair the damn thing.
> 
> What's next? Do-it-yourself bomb disposal?
> 
> -John


 
Ahh,.... just leave it be for the IBEW. They know what they're doing!


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Zog said:


> Typically you have higher arc flash hazard levels on 480V systems than you do on a 34.5kV system. So don't let the voltages here mislead you.


 
And typically 120V kills more people than other sources, so what's your point?????????????????


What are you getting to? Then we can argue.........


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

76nemo said:


> And typically 120V kills more people than other sources, so what's your point?????????????????
> 
> 
> What are you getting to? Then we can argue.........


I think he's saying that if you equate higher voltages with greater arc flash hazards, that's not necessarily true. Many guys wouldn't give a second thought to "tinkering around with" 480, but would not mess with high(er) voltage stuff, when the greater hazard is often with the 480 gear (in terms of arc flash potential).


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> I think he's saying that if you equate higher voltages with greater arc flash hazards, that's not necessarily true. Many guys wouldn't give a second thought to "tinkering around with" 480, but would not mess with high(er) voltage stuff, when the greater hazard is often with the 480 gear (in terms of arc flash potential).


 
Than I'll call your bluff as well. I don't care if you work with 12V(twelve), systems or 13.5k. There is "trained" and there is misinformed. It's not our fault there is more incident with 480V, it's the GD dumb bast*rds thinking 480V is somewhat harmless. It's those type of people who make a bad rap for trained electricians. I don't care how long you have been working with different systems. There are "trained" personnel and there are numbnuts. I hope you don't consider yourself numbnuts because you work with 1000V's or less.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

76nemo said:


> And typically 120V kills more people than other sources, so what's your point?????????????????


Because it is everywhere. 




76nemo said:


> What are you getting to? Then we can argue.........


Simply stating a fact, most people assume higher voltage means higher arc flash hazard when in fact it is usually the oppoiste.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Zog said:


> Because it is everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
And your adjective of "most people" puts us unjustly into the category of "misinformed".


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

A few weeks after starting here we lost a lineman who cut the wrong 4160 line. I was across the street and noticed the lights blind but that's it. Came outside a little later and all the bosses were there. 
Found out later his ground man didn't know how to lower the bucket from below. It was a case of old guy teach new guy with little formal training.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Wirenuting said:


> A few weeks after starting here we lost a lineman who cut the wrong 4160 line. I was across the street and noticed the lights blind but that's it. Came outside a little later and all the bosses were there.
> Found out later his ground man didn't know how to lower the bucket from below. It was a case of old guy teach new guy with little formal training.


 
"Lost",...... you mean "fired"?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

76nemo said:


> "Lost",...... you mean "fired"?


Ya, fried. 
He had few burns but was dead anyway you look at it. His wife had just had a baby a few months earlier. 
The blame was put on him and management kept doing that they normally do. 
I figure he deserved some of the fault, but training and tools were so lax back then that I'm surprised fewer people were hurt. For awhile training and PPE increased,, but I have noticed that once more the budget is more important. 
We seem to forget the hard lessons learned when things are going well.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

In response to the more people die from 120 volts than any other voltage post above, is there any data to back that up or is that just another wives tale we have been told all these years?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

knowshorts said:


> In response to the more people die from 120 volts than any other voltage post above, is there any data to back that up or is that just another wives tale we have been told all these years?


 
It's a known fact.


Still have that chart Badger?


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

While the arc flash potential can be higher at normal building voltages-480, ect, the chance of death or serious injury is obviously much more likely from accidental contact or near contact with medium or high voltages.


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