# Question about trimming out



## Woober (Aug 22, 2008)

Hello,

Was hoping to get a little feedback from somebody here, regarding trim out with receptacles, switches, GFCI's, etc.

I had about 3 solid days of trim out work in a medical clinic. I have done a bit of trim stuff over the course of the year and a half that I have been an apprentice, but never really got a good system down.

The problems that I keep running in to are the following:

When there is not enough drywall around the mud ring, for the ears of the device to catch, I simply use the green spacers. However, even when there is enough drywall for the ears to catch, in order for the device to be fastened securely, it sucks it down almost too far, so that when I put the cover plate on, the receptacle is below flush, and obviously that is not acceptable.

If I do only tighten it to the point where there is enough of the receptacle sticking through the cover plate to look good, it is not tight enough to the wall, and the whole thing can slide back and forth.

I tried bending the ears back a little bit, so that when I screw the device to the mudring, it helps it bite a little better, but even that method seems to be hit and miss.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. If I missed a previous thread on this topic, could somebody point me to it please.

Scott


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

I just use the green "catapillars" in situations like this. Sounds like you need deeper mud rings so they are more flush from the get-go. I size mud rings 1/8" bigger than the drywall installed.

~Matt


----------



## partyman97_3 (Oct 11, 2009)

Caddy a retainer/leveler and they work pretty good. Part number BB32. Hopefully this link works.
http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/coop...ing-steel-fasteners-755/page-25-fullsize.html


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It may look complicated, but it's not: Here's my solution.....


Take a #2 Philips screwdriver and drill two holes in the handle next to the shaft. Drill them at an angle.




















Now, take a scrap piece of #12 and stick into one of the holes. Which hole you use depends on which way you're going to turn the screwdriver. You want the wire to 'hook' into the hole so it won't pull out.










Grab the wire with one hand, and hold it against the screwdriver shaft with your thumb. Start turning with your other hand.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

*Part 2:*

When you get the length of wire wrapped around the shaft, you have this:










Rotate the wire so it pulls out of the hole in the handle:











And slide it off the shaft (this only works with philips screwdrivers, or cabinet-tip straight ones!!!)











Cut the 'tails' off the 'spring' you just made:











And you end up with a coil of #12:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

*Part 3:*

I usually have two or three of these coils is my pouch at any given time. Just grab some rabbit sometime, make the coils, and you'll have them ready.

Take your cutters and cut a coil, slightly longer than you need to space the device out:










If it's too long, cut part of the coil off:










Continue nibbling at it if necessary until you get it to the length you need:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

*Part 4: MORE POWER!*

To mass-produce them: Chuck the screwdriver up in a drill:










It takes some practice to do it this way, but it really goes fast:










Unchuck the driver and continue to 'make' your coil:


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

i just put a 6-32 nut on the screws just allmost tight then install the device flush and then hold the nut for the final quarter turn and your device will not move


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

If the ears catch just tighten it till it starts to suck in a little. Doesn't need to be rock solid. Would be nice but if the sheet rockers would do their jobs right it wouldn't be a problem. Like 480 showed you, use some scrap wire to shim the bad ones.


----------



## Woober (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks for all the good infomation. The pictures of the wire coils are great- I had heard of guys talking about that method, but could not picture what they meant.

My biggest problem is all the screwing around I find myself doing, trying to get the final trim to look just right. Of course I usually get hollared at if the foreman I am working with, thinks I am taking too long on a room.

Was also wondering if anybody uses the little plastic square, which has a small level vial in it. It is like a fake cord end, and goes into one of the receptacles. I was given one by a friend, and thought it was great- until I got done with a room once, and then for the heck of it, checked the devices with my regular, small torpedo level. They were way off! 

Scott


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Let's not forget that article 314.21 still applies and is often called around here in one of our jurisdictions.



> 314.21 Repairing Plaster and Drywall or Plasterboard.
> Plaster, drywall, or plasterboard surfaces that are broken or incomplete around boxes employing a flush-type cover or faceplate shall be repaired so there will be no gaps or open spaces greater than 3 mm (1/8 in.) at the edge of the box.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Woober said:


> Thanks for all the good infomation. The pictures of the wire coils are great- I had heard of guys talking about that method, but could not picture what they meant.
> 
> My biggest problem is all the screwing around I find myself doing, trying to get the final trim to look just right. Of course I usually get hollared at if the foreman I am working with, thinks I am taking too long on a room.
> 
> ...



I would kindly show him WHY you are "taking too long" Maybe he will see the mudrings are too shallow. Time is money, and if the rough is done right the first time, the trim should go fast. :thumbsup:

~Matt


----------



## zenayj (May 26, 2009)

If you're gonna use the wire coil method, make sure you use a phillips head and not a flat head.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

If your rough in is done with trim in mind, you do not have these issues. Tell the rough out guys the problems you are having. They may be setting the boxes back to far or using the wrong mud rings. 
In time you will find little tricks to make this smooth as a baby's butt. I could tell you what I would do, but since your an apprentice.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Klein makes screwdrivers for that now.


*Wire Bending Cabinet-Tip Screwdrivers - Round-Shank * Product Index > Screwdrivers & Nut Drivers > Cushion-Grip Screwdrivers > Wire Bending Cabinet-Tip Screwdrivers - Round-Shank *Features:*
*Cushion-Grip* handle allows for greater torque and comfort.
*Patented Tip-Ident®* quickly identifies the type of screwdriver and screwdriver tip orientation.
*Premium chrome plated* for smooth feel and corrosion resistance.
*Internal flanges* inside handle provide solid, twist-resistant blade anchor.
*Special heat-treated shafts.*
*Precision-machined* tip for exact fit.
*Meets or exceeds* applicable ASME / ANSI specifications.








​
605-4B - 1/4" Wire Bending Cabinet-Tip Screwdriver - 4" Round-Shank
605-6B - 1/4" Wire Bending Cabinet-Tip Screwdriver - 6" Round-Shank


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Klein makes screwdrivers for that now.
> 
> 
> *Wire Bending Cabinet-Tip Screwdrivers - Round-Shank *Product Index > Screwdrivers & Nut Drivers > Cushion-Grip Screwdrivers > Wire Bending Cabinet-Tip Screwdrivers - Round-Shank *Features:*
> ...


 
None of the links work.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> None of the links work.


 Try this one.http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/603-3b.html


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Try this one.http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/603-3b.html


 
That's to make loops to terminate small wires on devices, not make 'springs'.

Klein has had those for years.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> That's to make loops to terminate small wires on devices, not make 'springs'.
> 
> Klein has had those for years.


 You can still make springs with it.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> You can still make springs with it.


That's gonna be hard to do since I don't have one.:whistling2:

I still have my old plain-jane driver with the holes I drilled in it.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> That's gonna be hard to do since I don't have one.:whistling2:
> 
> I still have my old plain-jane driver with the holes I drilled in it.


 The first few screwdrivers I had like that I pulled the little stud out with a pair of side cutters. I looked at a klein catalog and found that that is what that little tit is for still haven't used it for that though.


----------



## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

also if you find a 5 gallon painters bucket pull the little gasket out of the top. it is hollow and you can cut lengths of those which will make the installation much firmer. You cut it longer than needed so it will push back on the device.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Bad Dry Wall Guys*



nitro71 said:


> If the ears catch just tighten it till it starts to suck in a little. Doesn't need to be rock solid. Would be nice but if the sheet rockers would do their jobs right it wouldn't be a problem. Like 480 showed you, use some scrap wire to shim the bad ones.


It kind of HAS to be solid...otherwise after a few times of using the receptacle, the plate could crack. There is only ONE right way to do something.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

These are the cheapest most efficient way to go IMHO

They work great.

Especially for kitchen tiled back splashes


----------



## pjg (Nov 11, 2008)

I use 1/4" plastic supply tubing, the stuff for toilet water supply, and cut it to length with my dikes.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I have seen some guys use plastic anchors and just cut the end off.


----------



## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I have seen some guys use plastic anchors and just cut the end off.


I've even gone as far as cutting the top off of a wire nut and using it as a washer. only for really bad cases though. I used this method hanging a fixture on a stucco wall and the box was 1'' too far back


----------



## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

Am I the only one who uses 1/4-2,0 or 8-32 nuts?

They're cheap, I have them on the truck.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

running dummy said:


> I've even gone as far as cutting the top off of a wire nut and using it as a washer. only for really bad cases though. I used this method hanging a fixture on a stucco wall and the box was 1'' too far back


 I have seen that one also.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Trimming Out*

There are a lot of innovative ways, out there, to accomplish a task...But you have to remember the term (APPROVED FOR THE PURPOSE) Anything but a tight connection from the YOKE screw to the receptacle box could be IFFY ...when it is needed.


----------



## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Here, you have to use an extension ring. Since the terminals on the device will no longer be enclosed in a steel box. If the inspector sees anything else he will fail the final inspection. I have used nuts in the past though...sometimes extension rings just don't work...


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Anyone use the BE-1 or the RLC from caddy?


----------



## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

I always try and up size my mud ring ex. 5/8" Rock use 3/4" Rings


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Sparky480 said:


> I always try and up size my mud ring ex. 5/8" Rock use 3/4" Rings


Here is the proper way to handle the problem before it arises.:thumbsup:

~Matt


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> It kind of HAS to be solid...otherwise after a few times of using the receptacle, the plate could crack. There is only ONE right way to do something.


 
And the OP said his boss is breathing down his neck to get it done. It's nice to have the luxury to make everything perfect but the reality is that as a apprentice you do what your boss wants.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Three words.

Nylon cover plates


Very rarely do I feel the need to use spacers behind a recep these days. The nylon cover plates have been around for decades. I don't understand why they even make the old brittle ones anymore.

A) Get the recep squared up and flush *before tightening the screws*.

B) Tighten the screws to set the ears at the proper depth.

C) use the cover plate to firm up the recep if necessary.




> There is only ONE right way to do something.


:jester:

I am hoping that you didn't think that statement all the way through.


----------

