# Black Box



## hbiss (Mar 1, 2008)

Hmmm, that's interesting. I know guys who deal with Black Box and they never had any problems. What was the deal with the cable? Was the cable marked as plenum and during the job you discovered the bogus listing? Also, I don't think I have ever seen CAT6e. With a job of that size wasn't there a project manager that required submittals and approved the materials before hand?

-Hal


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## tonyburkhart (Feb 10, 2010)

reddog552 said:


> I just did a job for these gugs with there brand parts. We did 4,500 drops of Cat 6e of data & the same of voice.I was not impressed with the quality of the Chineese made parts.On 1 phase of the job we had pulled and punched down 2000 runs,RECALL there plentum rated wire wasnt? pulled them all out.Reran them all.We used 24 & 48 port 110 blocks.10% failed,Coroded contacts bent contacts, No conection between punch down block and contacts. http://www.blackbox.com/ Have any of you guys done any work with these guys parts.


*Wow, that's quite a large job! *

Just to clarify, you have done 4,500 dual drops? Meaning one data (Cat6a) and one voice (Cat3 or Cat5e) to each location... 9,000 cables total?

I'm sure it was just a typo, but *Cat 6e* (as you typed) is not a recognized cabling standard by the TIA/EIA. Category 6a is however a recognized standard and also, sold by BlackBox.

Next, I can't imagine their cable marked as "PLENUM or CMP" is not. That is easily checked against a UL certification database record though, if memory serves. 

Also, as you reference "Chinese parts", there cable is always advertised as *Made in the USA*. As for their parts (66/110 blocks, patch panels, etc.) I would estimate at least 50% is also advertised as *Made in the USA*. The items that are not advertised as such... I'm not sure of the origins.

I have done work for BlackBox in the past (on a much smaller job) and their quality of cable and endpoint items (110-66 Blocks, jacks, panels, etc.) was on par with any other brand name (Hubbell, Ortronics, Panduit, etc.) items I've used in the industry. Corroded contacts on the blocks is very rare, as there has to be a significant presence of moisture, over a period of time to have corrosion occur on out of the box items... meaning the box it came in would be noticeably weathered from water damage. If that was the case, it should have been returned immediately to the supplier for a replacement. I find corrosion even more of an oddity with BlackBox, as every endpoint item I have received from them on a job was wrapped in plastic as it came out of the cardboard container. I will say that on a job that size, bent connectors may come into play, by sheer percentage of failure rate compared to the quantity of items. 10% does seem a little high, though. Keep in mind that an improperly trained technician, in the art of cable termination, could lead to bent pins/connectors very easily.

I also _strongly_ agree with -Hal's statement about a project manager :


hbiss said:


> ...With a job of that size wasn't there a project manager that required submittals and approved the materials before hand?



I think a little clarification on specific details will help on determining what the exact origin of the fault was. The more details you can provide, the better!


Thanks,
Tony


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## Sawdust454 (Sep 26, 2008)

I use their electronics all the time, such as the wireless rs232 devices and cannot complain.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BlackBox is generally regarded as pretty good stuff. I'm sorta surprised. I really only use "special" items from BlackBox, that only they seem to make. 

For day to day work, I tend to mostly use Suttle and ICC, for no particular reason, other than availability. I'm sorta stuck on Belden for cable. Superstition, I think.


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> BlackBox is generally regarded as pretty good stuff. I'm sorta surprised. I really only use "special" items from BlackBox, that only they seem to make.
> 
> For day to day work, I tend to mostly use Suttle and ICC, for no particular reason, other than availability. I'm sorta stuck on Belden for cable. Superstition, I think.


I'll second being stuck with Belden, but because of their web site search features.


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## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

Just a correction Cat6a was used for Voice and Data. There were actually Quad drops 2 voice 2 data to each station.We used there Cat6a UTP cable. First shippment 100,000'+ was fine, second shippment 200,000' looked and felt differnent Colors wernt as bright, We used Yellow for Data Gray for Voice.Cable seemed to kink really easy.Second shippment also consisted of Black Box normal boxes and WHITE boxes with black Box stickers on them.installed 200,000 feet,with a lot of questions,We were a sub under Black Box, were assured every thing was fine.Terminated 300 +48 port patch pannels.We started certifing, There was Multible falures for coroded contacts.We replaced 15 or so panels.Word came down the Second shippment was a Quallity control MISTAKE. We pulled it all out & reinstalled.This was a Gov contract,Wonder what Black Box said. We have backed away from there products & there Contracts.To the point were bidding aginst them.


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## hbiss (Mar 1, 2008)

Maybe this job was too big for Black Box to handle from their stock so they had to scrounge material from other sources? Keep in mind that in this economy nobody wants to keep a lot of money tied up in material sitting in a warehouse and hoping it will sell.

-Hal


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## Cableghost (Feb 19, 2010)

I've done some really large jobs with Black Box materials. All of their cabling products have a lifetime guarantee and quantity ordered has never been an issue. It appears they were backing up their product, which is nice to know they actually do that. Looking at your spelling/wording and your inability to know what a patch panel is (_48 port 110 block?_). I'm guessing you were a little out of your league here and 5% of that failure was simply due to your crew's ability. Did you know there is a minimum distance with 6A? If I were Black Box, I would revisit this location and pay special attention to the grounding in the closet. I read your other post and you seem to be having problems on the sparky side as well. I'm not sure I would go tanning in IL without some ground wire. I also find it funny that you were probably paid pretty healthy to do this project, including the additional work from the warranty, then to turn on the hand that fed you. Shows what type of company you are.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Cableghost = Black Box rep?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Cableghost = Black Box rep?


Ya think??? Cuz' ya know Marc, you're usually wrong about everything... :001_unsure:


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## Thayer (Sep 22, 2008)

Seems like it to me!


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> BlackBox is generally regarded as pretty good stuff. I'm sorta surprised.


"Why don't they make the whole plane out of that _black box_ stuff?"" --_Steven Wright_.


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