# Klein lineman



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Return them and buy Knipex. They come smooth as glass from the factory.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Take them back to the store. Even Milwaukee pliers work straight out of the package and they’re half the price.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Julian65 said:


> Best way to break in new pliers


I've tried all the methods suggested here on the forum and have concluded that nothing works all that well. Return them if they are too tight and always take them out of the package first and test the tightness of the rivet before buying. Or buy any of the other brands out there - Milwaukee, Knipex, Greenlee, Channelock, Ideal, etc.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I've tried all the methods suggested here on the forum and have concluded that nothing works all that well. Return them if they are too tight and always take them out of the package first and test the tightness of the rivet before buying. Or buy any of the other brands out there - Milwaukee, Knipex, Greenlee, Channelock, Ideal, etc.


IMO, the best method is to spray them with brake cleaner to remove all the grease/oil and then exercise the crap out of them. That helps smooth out the internal surfaces that rub together. Then afterwards re-apply good oil and you're done.

But it takes a lot of work, like sitting there opening and closing them for hours.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

I've had good success over the years using Hilti Spray lubricant in the joint, then work them open and closed to flush out any grease.. I don't think it took that long to do, if memory serves. Once they're loose, maintain them.. When (not if) you use them as a beater, use the right side to beat with.. If you use the side that you can see the center pin moving, eventually you'll wind up mushrooming it and they'll be stiff again..


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

glen1971 said:


> I've had good success over the years using Hilti Spray lubricant in the joint, then work them open and closed to flush out any grease.. I don't think it took that long to do, if memory serves. Once they're loose, maintain them.. * When (not if) you use them as a beater, use the right side to beat with.. If you use the side that you can see the center pin moving, eventually you'll wind up mushrooming it and they'll be stiff again..*


This is SOOO damn true.

Most people use the side with the cutters because the entire face of it is solid, but that side is where the center pin comes thru. When you hit something you "stake" the metal, which makes it harder to open/close.

You have to use the side with the opening, there is less meat on that side to hit with, but the pin is solid there so no worries about making them harder to operate.

Here is an example of staking something. It's an extreme example, but it shows what happens with pliers if you hit with the wrong side:


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

glen1971 said:


> I've had good success over the years using Hilti Spray lubricant in the joint, then work them open and closed to flush out any grease.. I don't think it took that long to do, if memory serves. Once they're loose, maintain them.. When (not if) you use them as a beater, use the right side to beat with.. If you use the side that you can see the center pin moving, eventually you'll wind up mushrooming it and they'll be stiff again..



I know this is an unpopular opinion among electricians, but Estwing makes a tool to keep from mushrooming your linesmans pliers :bangin:


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Valve grinding compound does a nice job breaking in pliers. Apply it to the joint betwen the 2 halves of the pliers and work it up through the joint. 
When it is lose enough wash it out with a lubricant. I use SLICK50. make sure you get it all out. Best of luck and happy new year.

LC


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

JoeSparky said:


> I know this is an unpopular opinion among electricians, but Estwing makes a tool to keep from mushrooming your linesmans pliers :bangin:


And it works well, when you have it nearby.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I can't believe you people whack things with the flat of the pliers. That's totally awkward. You hammer with the narrow edge.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

JoeSparky said:


> I know this is an unpopular opinion among electricians, but Estwing makes a tool to keep from mushrooming your linesmans pliers :bangin:


Estwing makes the BEST non-mushrooming implement  .


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

MTW said:


> I've tried all the methods suggested here on the forum and have concluded that nothing works all that well. Return them if they are too tight and always take them out of the package first and test the tightness of the rivet before buying. Or buy any of the other brands out there - Milwaukee, Knipex, Greenlee, Channelock, Ideal, etc.


Ideal :thumbup::thumbup:


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Julian65 said:


> Best way to break in new pliers


WD-40 has worked for me before. Sad... Klein used to never have these problems... seemed to start around the late 90’s. :sad:


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

splatz said:


> I can't believe you people whack things with the flat of the pliers. That's totally awkward. You hammer with the narrow edge.


 
Stamping says "M. Klein & Sons - Chicago, Ill U.S.A." Belonged to my wife's grandfather... looks like he was whacking a lot of things with the flat side!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Return them and buy Knipex. They come smooth as glass from the factory.


What if you just are not ready for that kind of professional leap?
I can only seem to buy Klein Klein's and Channellock Channellock's lain:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

jelhill said:


> Ideal :thumbup::thumbup:


And Channellocks. I think Channellocks made the linemans for Ideal at one point. The Channellocks are like ten dollars less and really nice...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> I can't believe you people whack things with the flat of the pliers. That's totally awkward. You hammer with the narrow edge.


I always hammer with the broad side, not the edge. But you have to hammer with the broad side that has the big cut-out in the cutter area, not the completely flat side.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I always hammer with the broad side, not the edge. But you have to hammer with the broad side that has the big cut-out in the cutter area, not the completely flat side.


I never looked, I take it that's always the side that has the pin staked / peened in the hole, and not damaged because it doesn't rotate anyway...

But but but that's like slapping things instead of chopping them, or throwing like a girl, you aren't - I don't know - you can't wind up or something.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> I never looked, I take it that's always the side that has the pin staked / peened in the hole, and not damaged because it doesn't rotate anyway...


 Yes, exactly.

I was taught that you never hit the little lineman guy (who is on the side with the cut-out in which the pin rotates on Klein pliers).



> But but but that's like slapping things instead of chopping them, or throwing like a girl, you aren't - I don't know - you can't wind up or something.


 It's the same amount of force, but a broader head. The edge is rounded and more likely to slip off and hit your hand.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

JoeSparky said:


> I know this is an unpopular opinion among electricians, but Estwing makes a tool to keep from mushrooming your linesmans pliers :bangin:


If it going to be more than tapping the plastic handle of a beater I'm going for the hammer.

Seeing a guy pound cable staples with his linemans just seems so wrong.


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## Smid (Jul 9, 2014)

HackWork said:


> Return them and buy Knipex. They come smooth as glass from the factory.


Everyone I work with calls my knipex knockoffs and cant believe I’d spend the money blah Blah blah. Showed up yesterday and one guy had a pair in his pocket. They are substantially better than Klein, especially right out of the package.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Smid said:


> Everyone I work with calls my knipex knockoffs and cant believe I’d spend the money blah Blah blah. Showed up yesterday and one guy had a pair in his pocket. They are substantially better than Klein, especially right out of the package.


That is probably the older guys who still think that American is better. 

Hell, are Kleins even made in America anymore? Even if they are, they still aren't better than Knipex and many other foreign brands.


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## positron (Jan 8, 2018)

Wire wrap one handle to a sawzall blade and squirt with WD. A minute on the trigger equals 10 years of use.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

positron said:


> Wire wrap one handle to a sawzall blade and squirt with WD. A minute on the trigger equals 10 years of use.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


That's a *really* good idea :vs_laugh:

Though I would recommend doing it without any lube first, that will smooth the mating surfaces better.


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Spray with any kind of lube and work out the old black grease. To really make them loose spray lube, oil wd-40 etc etc and put sand in the bottom. Finer grit sand works best but any will do and then open and close for a minute and lube again until they are clean. I typically just spray with any lube and work them for about 2-3 minutes and they are loose. No idea why people make a big deal about breaking them in.....its takes a few minutes..... big deal
Knipex blades chip over time making them useless while Klein mushrooms over time making them still good enough to work with other than smaller stranded wire because use use both brands to cut things other than copper or aluminum wire ie nails, screws, rebar mats etc etc 
I prefer Klein


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> That's a *really* good idea :vs_laugh:
> 
> Though I would recommend doing it without any lube first, that will smooth the mating surfaces better.


Life lesson from high school GFs: he who doesn't use lube the first time around may never have that chance again.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

bostonPedro said:


> Spray with any kind of lube and work out the old black grease. To really make them loose spray lube, oil wd-40 etc etc and put sand in the bottom. Finer grit sand works best but any will do and then open and close for a minute and lube again until they are clean. I typically just spray with any lube and work them for about 2-3 minutes and they are loose. No idea why people make a big deal about breaking them in.....its takes a few minutes..... big deal
> Knipex blades chip over time making them useless while Klein mushrooms over time making them still good enough to work with other than smaller stranded wire because use use both brands to cut things other than copper or aluminum wire ie nails, screws, rebar mats etc etc
> I prefer Klein


If you can get sand in a plier joint it should open on it's own with out touching it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

jelhill said:


> Ideal :thumbup::thumbup:


I agree. Ideal used to be rebranded Channelock pliers, now they are making them in house (so I was told by an Ideal rep.) I have a Channelock-made Ideal lineman's that are 15 years old and are actually the best pliers I have ever owned.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

MTW said:


> I agree. Ideal used to be rebranded Channelock pliers, now they are making them in house (so I was told by an Ideal rep.) I have a Channelock-made Ideal lineman's that are 15 years old and are actually the best pliers I have ever owned.


They must be different than the pair I bought are home Depot. It could barely cut MC luminary cable that a klien could cut easily.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Forge Boyz said:


> They must be different than the pair I bought are home Depot. It could barely cut MC luminary cable that a klien could cut easily.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Ideal brand? They haven't sold Ideal tools at Depot in a very long time. I bought mine at the wholesaler but I do remember when they had Ideal pliers at the Depot back in the late 90's, early 00's.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

MTW said:


> Ideal brand? They haven't sold Ideal tools at Depot in a very long time. I bought mine at the wholesaler but I do remember when they had Ideal pliers at the Depot back in the late 90's, early 00's.


Now that I think about it, it was from Lowe's. They were on clearance so I decided to try them. I prefer klien.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> They must be different than the pair I bought are home Depot. It could barely cut MC luminary cable that a klien could cut easily.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Try cutting mc with cable cutters. It doesn't pinch the ends and the jacket slides right off. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## U Mirin? (May 19, 2015)

50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Like kroil but better and cheaper. 

Best penetrator. ever. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Forge Boyz said:


> They must be different than the pair I bought are home Depot. It could barely cut MC luminary cable that a klien could cut easily.


:thumbsup:
Agreed!

I got a pair of them in a set of pliers I had picked up.

The cutting edges were such crap they have taken up residence in my automotive toolbox in my garage never to leave the old homestead.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

In lots of brands of tools you have to oil the joints and work them when first purchased and from time to time. Part of working with tools in taking care of them.

1. Use WD-40. REGULAR WD-40. None of the other BS they put out now. I've tried PB Blaster, lithium, silicone, 4-in-1, just about any kind of oil you can think of. Loosen them up with WD-40 as it works the best. Then, if in a humid or corrosive environment, go back and work some light oil into the joint the next day.

2. Alternatively you can work in a tad bit of transmission fluid. A guy at work did this with his ideal linesmen and they loosened right up. I was surprised and impressed.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

U Mirin? said:


> 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Like kroil but better and cheaper.
> 
> Best* penetrant*. ever.


For a second I thought you changed subjects...lol!

Seems counterproductive to try and thin down something with the viscosity of transmission fluid, I've always used Liquid Wrench for a penetrant with great results.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

MechanicalDVR said:


> For a second I thought you changed subjects...lol!
> 
> Seems counterproductive to try and thin down something with the viscosity of transmission fluid, I've always used Liquid Wrench for a penetrant with great results.


Sea Foam Deep Creep is the best yet. Tried it a few weeks ago on some rusted wheel studs.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Enough of the bickering. Lets keep gross stereotyping out of here... There is no need for that and it is inaccurate to say that every person from a particular place is.....whatever.

The forum does not need this negativism.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Edited in respect for what Dennis said.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

99cents said:


> “Taking away priveleges” is another way of saying you put me on Ignore because you have no ballz. Trust me, I’m okay with that.


You wouldn't be OK with that. What would you fondle while I watch TV?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Enough of the bickering. Lets keep gross stereotyping out of here... There is no need for that and it is inaccurate to say that every person from a particular place is.....whatever.
> 
> The forum does not need this negativism.


I don't understand where this came from? Are you in the right thread? I saw no negativism.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> You wouldn't be OK with that. What would you fondle while I watch TV?


I deleted that comment. You should do the same.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

sbrn33 said:


> I don't understand where this came from? Are you in the right thread? I saw no negativism.


It's my fault. I brought up some basic facts that self-hating white people think is taboo. It makes them feel all guilty in the feels when reality doesn't match what the TV taught them. I take full responsibility.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

99cents said:


> I deleted that comment. You should do the same.


Why? Why would I delete the public attack you made against me for no reason? You've been on me since I got here and I'll let leave this out in public.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I can't believe he said that I have no balls when I sent him many pictures of the one. :vs_mad:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> It's my fault. I brought up some basic facts that self-hating white people think is taboo. It makes them feel all guilty in the feels when reality doesn't match what the TV taught them. I take full responsibility.


I’d rather listen to self-hating white people than an attention hound whose every post is “Look at me!”.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I can't believe he said that I have no balls when I sent him many pictures of the one. :vs_mad:


Actually, that was funny, Hack  .


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Enough of the bickering. Lets keep gross stereotyping out of here... There is no need for that and it is inaccurate to say that every person from a particular place is.....whatever.
> 
> The forum does not need this negativism.


I think what the issue is most people coming from Latin America are low skilled workers. Now some of the people are doctors and skilled, but remember the majority of immigrants are here doing "the work Americans don't do". So that's not being racist just starting a fact. It also doesn't mean they can't be trained to be skilled and aren't hard workers. 


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> Why? Why would I delete the public attack you made against me for no reason? You've been on me *since I got here* and I'll let leave this out in public.


There is no way you're a new guy here!


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

MechanicalDVR said:


> There is no way you're a new guy here!


How's that? Becauce that Canadian clown said so? I keep asking and no one says why that must be. Please tell me what specific indicators color me as a veteran forum goer.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

99cents said:


> I’d rather listen to self-hating white people than an attention hound whose every post is “Look at me!”.


Show me where that happened, clown shoes. Honk. Honk. You're the one pointing at me. Your ads is sore because I cracked wise at the expense of my beloved Canadians and you have been able to un-wedge the stick from lower bowel since. Get over it. I hear people busting on Americans all the time, some of it deserved, some of it derision. I don't cry, I just bust back. It's all in fun, except when you're around. I can't wait until your period is over. I bet your boyfriend can't stand you.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> How's that? Becauce that Canadian clown said so? I keep asking and no one says why that must be. Please tell me what specific indicators color me as a veteran forum goer.


1. Your persona

2. Your candor, lack of hesitation

3. Your posting style

4. Your sense of familiarity with other members here

One doesn't need psychic ability to sense a returning poster or one that opened an alter ego account


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> Show me where that happened, clown shoes. Honk. Honk. You're the one pointing at me. Your ads is sore because I cracked wise at the expense of my beloved Canadians and you have been able to un-wedge the stick from lower bowel since. Get over it. I hear people busting on Americans all the time, some of it deserved, some of it derision. I don't cry, I just bust back. It's all in fun, except when you're around. I can't wait until your period is over. I bet your boyfriend can't stand you.


Poseur


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

99cents said:


> Poseur


Is that supposed to mean something? Honk. Honk.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Christmas came late this year :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

MechanicalDVR said:


> 1. Your persona
> 
> 2. Your candor, lack of hesitation
> 
> ...


See, that's why I like you. You follow through. The Canadian side show can't cobble a coherent argument together other than "Muh feels!"

I can see where one could come to those conclusions. But I'd say its also likely that I've spent some time on a lot of construction sites, internet forums, and bar rooms. This kind of banter surely isn't unique to this forum. I don't mind getting in the mix and taking the blows or giving them. It's what makes a forum appealing, in my opinion. That other guy with the estimating post took a little heat and evaporated. I take a little and give a little. I also have electrical knowledge to contribute. Our buddy 99cents hasn't made a single new post that hasn't been about me. But, unlike him and some other members of his Ru Paul fan club, I don't puss around with the report button.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> See, that's why I like you. You follow through. The Canadian side show can't cobble a coherent argument together other than "Muh feels!"
> 
> I can see where one could come to those conclusions. But I'd say its also likely that I've spent some time on a lot of construction sites, internet forums, and bar rooms. This kind of banter surely isn't unique to this forum. I don't mind getting in the mix and taking the blows or giving them. It's what makes a forum appealing, in my opinion. That other guy with the estimating post took a little heat and evaporated. I take a little and give a little. I also have electrical knowledge to contribute. Our buddy 99cents hasn't made a single new post that hasn't been about me. But, unlike him and some other members of his Ru Paul fan club, I don't puss around with the report button.


Except we were talking electrical before you turned it into a freak show. Nobody reported you. It’s still there.

I think you need more French lessons. You’re a slow learner.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Strange that a newbie says it’s okay to trash talk as long as you talk electrical. Very strange.

One of these things is not like the other?


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

99cents said:


> Strange that a newbie says it’s okay to trash talk as long as you talk electrical. Very strange.
> 
> One of these things is not like the other?


Honk. Honk.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If it going to be more than tapping the plastic handle of a beater I'm going for the hammer.
> 
> Seeing a guy pound cable staples with his linemans just seems so wrong.


And a very sure way to get a very sore thumb and conjure up curse words.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> Show me where that happened, clown shoes. Honk. Honk. You're the one pointing at me. Your ads is sore because I cracked wise at the expense of my beloved Canadians and you have been able to un-wedge the stick from lower bowel since. Get over it. I hear people busting on Americans all the time, some of it deserved, some of it derision. I don't cry, I just bust back. It's all in fun, except when you're around. I can't wait until your period is over. I bet your boyfriend can't stand you.


Clown shoes? Busted. Both of you.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

99cents said:


> Clown shoes? Busted. Both of you.


Both of who? Honk. Honk.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

zac said:


> I think what the issue is most people coming from Latin America are low skilled workers. Now some of the people are doctors and skilled, but remember the majority of immigrants are here doing "the work Americans don't do". So that's not being racist just starting a fact. It also doesn't mean they can't be trained to be skilled and aren't hard workers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Whoa now. You need to tone that down mister. I'm sure you'll be getting a PM soon to tell you as much. That's too much truth for ****** to swallow.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> Both of who? Honk. Honk.


I used to call B4T clown shoes.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Is this the Anti-Canadian thread?

Shoot, I can't seem to find it

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

HackWork said:


> I used to call B4T clown shoes.


Did you have a patent on it? 99cents must think it is your exclusive property. And that is why I call him clown shoes.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mr. Lacarno said:


> Did you have a patent on it? 99cents must think it is your exclusive property. And that is why I call him clown shoes.


Yes.


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## Mr. Lacarno (Jan 2, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Yes.


Well, now you're out of the will too:vs_mad:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I used to call B4T clown shoes.


He was certainly worthy of the title.


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## soc_monki (Sep 20, 2014)

I agree with others... Get rid of Klein and get knipex. I still have Klein, but they're in my backup bag. Don't see how people chip the cutters on knipex...ive cut copper (of course) and some screws (6/32 and 8/32) and no damage. My first pair of Kleins (d2000s) deformed with the first 6/32 screw! After 3 years they were so worn out and rivet so loose the cutting edges scissored and jaws touched. Warrantied them. If I wear them out again I'll warranty them again. 

Same if the cutters on my Knipex chip. They have a warranty for a reason, but I have quite a few knipex tools and they are worth every penny.


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

Too lazy to read thru all of this thread, and the bickering haha. I was actually searching to see if the Knipex dismantling knife was worth buying.

Best way to loosen up your Klein's? 
Comet powder and 3 in 1 oil.
Oil first, dump comet on, grind the pins, flush with oil. Add hilti lubricant. Off to the races!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Knipex, Knipex, Knipex. That's all you yanks ever talk about. I never even heard of Knipex before I started using this site. In the interest of trying to understand the fascination you have with this product, I found a Canadian distributor and just now ordered a set of lineman's.

They better live up to the hype, or else!:wink:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

joe-nwt said:


> Knipex, Knipex, Knipex. That's all you yanks ever talk about. I never even heard of Knipex before I started using this site. In the interest of trying to understand the fascination you have with this product, I found a Canadian distributor and just now ordered a set of lineman's.
> 
> They better live up to the hype, or else!:wink:


It's no different than Klein. Electrician have been talking about them for decades.

But Klein's quality has tanked over the last 10+ years and many of us have (happily) switched to Knipex for some of our tools.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Is the dislike for Klein because of the stiffness out of the package or have there been other issues? My newest Kleins linemans are about 6 years old and sidecutters about 3. I've had no issues with them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

joe-nwt said:


> Is the dislike for Klein because of the stiffness out of the package or have there been other issues? My newest Kleins linemans are about 6 years old and sidecutters about 3. I've had no issues with them.


Well that is one complaint that I always saw, and Knipex is nice and smooth out of the package. But that is not something that I held against Klein. 

The issues were just the overall quality. I would notice that with my newer linemens I could no longer cut all the strands on #12 THHN after a couple months, I would have to move it and take another bite. When looking at the cutting edge I would see that the metal was slightly notched. The most I ever cut with them was 6-32 screws. I have had this issue with many pairs of linemens.

The knurling in the jaws would become flat and smooth years earlier than the older pliers.

Then one day I noticed that a big notch was missing from my cutting edge, but I could see that it was shattered. This must have happened when using the pliers as a hammer, but that is something that we have been doing for decades without issue. Then I bought a brand new screwdriver and the metal shaft literally fell out of the yellow plastic in the handle. 

I had various other issues with Klein tools. But then I joined Electrical Knowledge Repository and found many other people had those same issues with the newer Klein tools they were buying at the time (maybe 12-14 years ago). So I started switching and have been happy with Knipex, Wera, Wiha, and the other brands that people recommend.

I still have lots of Klein tools. Most of them are older and bullet proof and I have no reason to replace them. But if I needed a new one today, I would probably buy another brand.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Bought me some Milwaukee made-in-Taiwan linesman more than a year ago. Beats anything Klein has made.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

You guys are crazy. 
If it ain't Kline it's not mine! 

Next will be the guy who swears by commercial tools. This place used to have creditably! 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Well, my knipex lineman pliers showed up today. I will say they are definitely smooth operating right out of the plastic.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

zac said:


> You guys are crazy.
> If it ain't Kline it's not mine!
> 
> Next will be the guy who swears by commercial tools. This place used to have creditably!
> ...



Why? Because that's what you always used? Because that's what other electricians used? Because that's what they sell at the supply house? Name one thing Klein has that keeps you coming back. Quality damn sure isn't it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

CoolWill said:


> Why? Because that's what you always used? Because that's what other electricians used? Because that's what they sell at the supply house? Name one thing Klein has that keeps you coming back. Quality damn sure isn't it.


I bought new Klein lineman and 9" ***** last March or April. They are already filled with small chips and deformation in the cutting blades, and I go out of my way to cut copper only with them. Klein is trash and that is a fact. I'm more than happen for them to lose market share to competitors. I think I will try the Southwire lineman's next. Can't be any worse than Klein.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

And surely you to need to watch your mouth Mr. What keeps you coming back to this forum? Quality posts coming from the amateur hour.....

And Southwire...... child please! 

Both of you have been put on the list. 





Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MTW said:


> I think I will try the Southwire lineman's next. Can't be any worse than Klein.


Do you mean the made in USA one? I saw it at Lowes. Someone here tried it and liked it, maybe @460Delta? It's $40 for the made in USA Southwire, and $37.50 for the Southwire import. 

The Channellock is $27. 

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-369CRFT-Linemen-Hi-Leverage-9-5-Inch/dp/B0002FT612


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

zac said:


> And surely you to need to watch your mouth Mr. What keeps you coming back to this forum? Quality posts coming from the amateur hour.....
> 
> And Southwire...... child please!
> 
> Both of you have been put on the list.


I see.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

splatz said:


> Do you mean the made in USA one? I saw it at Lowes. Someone here tried it and liked it, maybe @460Delta? It's $40 for the made in USA Southwire, and $37.50 for the Southwire import.
> 
> The Channellock is $27.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-369CRFT-Linemen-Hi-Leverage-9-5-Inch/dp/B0002FT612


Yes, the made in USA ones.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> And surely you to need to watch your mouth Mr. What keeps you coming back to this forum? Quality posts coming from the amateur hour.....
> 
> And Southwire...... child please!
> 
> ...


 I knew what you meant. And that’s why I’m on your awesome list, not your sh1t list like Peter D and my other username.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

zac said:


> And surely you to need to watch your mouth Mr. What keeps you coming back to this forum? Quality posts coming from the amateur hour.....
> 
> And Southwire...... child please!
> 
> ...



What. Are. You. Talking. About?


Klein blows. I have never owned any Southwire tools, but I guarantee they can't be worse than Klein. End of story.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> What. Are. You. Talking. About?
> 
> 
> Klein blows. I have never owned any Southwire tools, but I guarantee they can't be worse than Klein. End of story.


This conversation is over. I thought you were all right but apparently you have an attitude and are discriminating againts Klein tools. I'm on to you guys. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MTW said:


> I bought new Klein lineman and 9" ***** last March or April. They are already filled with small chips and deformation in the cutting blades, and I go out of my way to cut copper only with them. Klein is trash and that is a fact. I'm more than happen for them to lose market share to competitors. I think I will try the Southwire lineman's next. Can't be any worse than Klein.


And these are 2000 series?

Mine just go on and on -- even attacking mild steel -- like #12 drop wire.

The regular stuff takes a hit -- no doubt about it.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

telsa said:


> And these are 2000 series?
> 
> Mine just go on and on -- even attacking mild steel -- like #12 drop wire.
> 
> The regular stuff takes a hit -- no doubt about it.



If you bought them back in 2000, maybe they are alright. But I started noticing the slide in 2008 or 09. I kept giving them the benefit of the doubt until I couldn't stand it any longer.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

zac said:


> This conversation is over. I thought you were all right but apparently you have an attitude and are discriminating againts Klein tools. I'm on to you guys.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



:vs_mad::vs_mad::vs_mad:


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

I wonder why the 10.5 is cheaper? 



https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-...s=3610+channellock&qid=1568227070&s=hi&sr=1-1


I would buy these as a backup pair if they price drop.







splatz said:


> Do you mean the made in USA one? I saw it at Lowes. Someone here tried it and liked it, maybe @460Delta? It's $40 for the made in USA Southwire, and $37.50 for the Southwire import.
> 
> The Channellock is $27.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-369CRFT-Linemen-Hi-Leverage-9-5-Inch/dp/B0002FT612


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Look these are even cheaper 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004SBD6/ref=psdc_553322_t1_B0096PEC90

Maybe it's the fish tape puller? Which I do use sometimes. 



TheLivingBubba said:


> I wonder why the 10.5 is cheaper?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

My Southwire linemans are holding up well and I really like them, I'm guessing they are in actuality Channellock brand with different handle plastic. Better than my Kleins.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

zac said:


> This conversation is over. I thought you were all right but apparently you have an attitude and are discriminating againts Klein tools. I'm on to you guys.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I see.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

460 Delta said:


> My Southwire linemans are holding up well and I really like them, I'm guessing they are in actuality Channellock brand with different handle plastic. Better than my Kleins.


They are pro America pliers.

https://toolguyd.com/pro-america-pliers/

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

One thing I noticed about the Southwire made in USA linemans pliers, odd shaped crimp lug, but it looks like it can crimp a little tighter than most - less space in the closed position. I don't know if that's good or bad.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

splatz said:


> One thing I noticed about the Southwire made in USA linemans pliers, odd shaped crimp lug, but it looks like it can crimp a little tighter than most - less space in the closed position. I don't know if that's good or bad.


It’ll smash the fire out of a Buchanan tophat with two 14 awg wires in it, good in my book.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

460 Delta said:


> It’ll smash the fire out of a Buchanan tophat with two 14 awg wires in it, good in my book.



That's what I was wondering! With two small wires the lug on the Ideal can leave it a little loose.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

460 Delta said:


> It’ll smash the fire out of a Buchanan tophat with two 14 awg wires in it, good in my book.


Aren't those insulated? I thought you weren't supposed to use that style of crimper on insulated crimps?

When looking at standard crimpers, it shows that style crimper die for uninsulated crimps. The die for insulated crimps is basically an outward circle on each side instead of having the tit on one side.

So confusing.... :biggrin:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Aren't those insulated? I thought you weren't supposed to use that style of crimper on insulated crimps?
> 
> When looking at standard crimpers, it shows that style crimper die for uninsulated crimps. The die for insulated crimps is basically an outward circle on each side instead of having the tit on one side.
> 
> So confusing.... :biggrin:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The Buchanan (now part of Ideal) crimp sleeves specify the Ideal lineman's and crimp tools as alternates to the special Buchanan C24 four-way tool. 



The Ideal linemans crimp lug makes it nice and tight with 3 #14s or more, those wires are going nowhere. But with say two #14, the tool bottoms out before it's as tight as I'd like.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Buchanan “tophat” and Ideal “galoshes”, or “ booties”.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

460 Delta said:


> Buchanan “tophat” and Ideal “galoshes”, or “ booties”.



What do you use them for? 

I just bought a box of the 2007 caps. I looked at both but ordered those because I thought it would lay neater in the box without the little strap spreading the wires. 



I wanted something where I could tell if there was anyone else in there working on it. I have to say it seems like an excellent connection with four #14 stranded.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Who/where are these used anymore? Even back in the mid-70’s when I was doing commercial work did I see people using these in my area of the midwest.

Is there a specific advantage to using them?


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> If you bought them back in 2000, maybe they are alright. But I started noticing the slide in 2008 or 09. I kept giving them the benefit of the doubt until I couldn't stand it any longer.


The 2000 refers to the series (just in case you didn't know). I use these to demo out panels in service upgrades. Out here in the land of fruits and nuts the panels are usually exterior and in stucco. These cut chicken wire, staples and 8 pennys no problem. And as you can tell by my manly hands I'm pretty hard on them.









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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> The 2000 refers to the series (just in case you didn't know). I use these to demo out panels in service upgrades. Out here in the land of fruits and nuts the panels are usually exterior and in stucco. These cut chicken wire, staples and 8 pennys no problem. And as you can tell by my manly hands I'm pretty hard on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are they pre-2009?


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Are they pre-2009?


My hands yes. 
The ***** are a newer model. They just came out a year ago or so. Compare the difference.









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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

bill39 said:


> Who/where are these used anymore? Even back in the mid-70’s when I was doing commercial work did I see people using these in my area of the midwest.
> 
> Is there a specific advantage to using them?


People still use them for uninsulated EGC terminations. Saves space in the box, cheap, small to carry around. They let you leave one wire long and hit the devices with that, like the green wire nuts, but with these you could leave more than one long. 

Like I say I used them in a special case because I wanted to know if anyone else is monkeying with this work. But, I found they make an excellent connection with stranded wires, really solid. I wonder if they hold up better than wire nuts.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

zac said:


> My hands yes.
> The ***** are a newer model. They just came out a year ago or so. Compare the difference.


I remember now, I saw those on the counter at a supply house then forgot about them, BIG set of pliers, much bigger than regular dikes. 

It's easy to make a BIG set of pliers, but I see that those blades are in great shape, that's a good set of pliers.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

For whatever reason I can’t quote anyone but here is one of the places I use tophats. And the reason why laying at the top of the picture.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

You use use Lever Nuts.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> You use use Lever Nuts.


Crimps and insulators are the opposite of lever nuts.


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