# what will the outcome be?



## pepper (Oct 24, 2009)

:whistling2: Hi guys, My first time here and I have a off the wall question for anyone that has run acrosse this before, I have a friend that had a meter stuck and would not turn at all,well it stayed this way for three or four years and his bill was like $16.50 every month, then one day the electric co. came out and put a new meter on and the bill went back to normal and no one said a thing to him about it at all.{no one}not a word. but that was twenty years ago, so the other day a man ask me why his bill was always the same I looked at his meter and it was not turning.not even with everything in the house on. My question here is , you think they will try to make him pay back pay after they figure it out or just replace the meter ? thanks in adv.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Hmmmmmmmm.

"My first time here........" followed by ".........I have a friend....."


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## ArrrrrMatey (Oct 23, 2009)

Unless they could prove that he did something to disable the meter or he was growing weed in the house, they really have no recourse.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

If the meter stuck or slowed down, they typically do nothing except change the meter. If the meter was fast for some reason, they will test it and give you a refund for however much it was fast (normally only back one year). 

The real rough ones (I've been involved in three) are where the PoCo had on the wrong CT's and were underbilling a customer for years. It's simple math to find out what they're owed, and I've known of bills to go out in the 30,000 to 100,000 dollar range. They are only permitted, by law in my state, to go back something like 7 years to recollect what they underbilled.

I'm sure every PoCo has different guidelines on that, and laws naturally vary from state to state.


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## pepper (Oct 24, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Hmmmmmmmm.
> 
> "My first time here........" followed by ".........I have a friend....."


 Yes, first time here , yes, frend is for real.
yes, question was ask by real person.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

I had free cable for 2 years, my mom for 5. They don't come after you as far as I know, it's their equipment, therefore, their screw up.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

i dont know what the answer is to the OP's question. i dont think they will notice. Now if you drill a hole in the disk and drop a small rod in it thats another story. so is breaking the little tab thingy. My favorite of course was from a guy we called "right-right" - cut the 2"rigid in the attic and install a 2" GUAT, make a tap of the service feeder and run that to a small panel for your HVAC, water heater, and stove ........ 
that only works of course if you have a stem thru the attic and are a complete doouche and theif


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> I had free cable for 2 years, my mom for 5. They don't come after you as far as I know, it's their equipment, therefore, their screw up.


 your cable is not free you are stealing it.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> your cable is not free you are stealing it.




A) It aint cheating if you don't get caught.

B) If you aint cheatin, you aint playin hard enough.

If my elec meter was spinning too slowly I certainly wouldn't call it to their attention. Just keep a few bucks in the bank in case it catches up.

A friend of mine went 5 or 6 years with extremely low bills....like $20 a month. Eventually the maintenance schedule called for new meters in his neighborhoood and he had to start paying real bills.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

220/221 said:


> A) It aint cheating if you don't get caught.
> 
> B) If you aint cheatin, you aint playin hard enough.
> 
> ...


 you were subsidizing your friends "free" electric.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Had this happen to a client where the POCO new the meter was bad and billed a flat rate, until replacing the meter. When the took the reading that month, they tacked on the previous three months, minus the flat rate. They called me out there to fix it and basically told them that it's between the POCO and them, I'm not getting into the middle of that.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I did a service change a year ago and after I finished I fot a call from the homeowner and he told me that his electric bill was 29 dollars. His meter wasnt working properly. It would only spin every so often. He called PSEG several times and they basically said that if it is spining then its working and they didnt need to do anything else. I asked the HO if he wanted to sell me his meter...LOL Some guys have all the luck.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> I had free cable for 2 years, my mom for 5. They don't come after you as far as I know, it's their equipment, therefore, their screw up.


 The cable company came out and hooked up my Roadrunner and when the dude left I had HBO and a few other channels and to this day I still don't know if that guy took the HBO filter of or what.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

rewire said:


> your cable is not free you are stealing it.


I didn't steal it, it was like that when I moved in.The Girl who lived there before had called her friend at the TV provider, and she said it was a hot line that they "didn't " know about. And I had another neighbour who was a jerk, and called it in to report it, and they STILL did nothing about it. As for my mom, they just stopped sending her bills for about 5 years.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> I didn't steal it, it was like that when I moved in.The Girl who lived there before had called her friend at the TV provider, and she said it was a hot line that they "didn't " know about. And I had another neighbour who was a jerk, and called it in to report it, and they STILL did nothing about it. As for my mom, they just stopped sending her bills for about 5 years.


 so you are OK with it being stolen and you getting the benefits of it being stlen as long as it was not you who actually was the one who originally stole it but you are recieving stolen property which makes you an accomplce to the theft, its your moral compass that must guide you.


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

rewire said:


> so you are OK with it being stolen and you getting the benefits of it being stlen as long as it was not you who actually was the one who originally stole it but you are recieving stolen property which makes you an accomplce to the theft, its your moral compass that must guide you.


I don't feel guilty, as it was reported numerous times, yet the TV company chose to do nothing about the situation.

And honestly, I do not feel bad about getting things for free from corporate companies. I feel bad about mom and pop organizations who get ripped by these guys. They can afford bonuses for their CEO's in the hundreds of thousands, even in these current times, then NO, I don't feel bad about getting some free cable for a couple of years.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> I don't feel guilty, as it was reported numerous times, yet the TV company chose to do nothing about the situation.
> 
> And honestly, I do not feel bad about getting things for free from corporate companies. I feel bad about mom and pop organizations who get ripped by these guys. They can afford bonuses for their CEO's in the hundreds of thousands, even in these current times, then NO, I don't feel bad about getting some free cable for a couple of years.


 Have you reported it? So stealing is OK as long as it is from a big corporation. How big does the company have to be? Would it be OK for someone to take $20.00 from your wallet if you had a thousand in the bank? We have raised a generation with no moral compass


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

I think the free cable was a while ago. All the cable companies have gone digital. You get very little without a box now days.


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## Ray Cyr (Nov 21, 2007)

rewire said:


> Have you reported it? So stealing is OK as long as it is from a big corporation. How big does the company have to be? Would it be OK for someone to take $20.00 from your wallet if you had a thousand in the bank? We have raised a generation with no moral compass


Why are you calling this stealing? The providing company knew the line was hooked up. It actually costs the company nothing for the receiver to get the signal from their system. What costs is the maintenance of the system and the licensing of the programming. It is quite possible that the local office of the company choose not to send a technician out to disconnect the line because it would have cost more in labor and fuel to do so than to knowingly allow someone (pre-existing) access to the line.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Ray Cyr said:


> Why are you calling this stealing? The providing company knew the line was hooked up. It actually costs the company nothing for the receiver to get the signal from their system. What costs is the maintenance of the system and the licensing of the programming. It is quite possible that the local office of the company choose not to send a technician out to disconnect the line because it would have cost more in labor and fuel to do so than to knowingly allow someone (pre-existing) access to the line.


I remember a story my Mom told me from her childhood it seems one morning the neighbors milk cow had gotten loose and wandered down to my Grandfathers house. Grandpa had just traded his cow to another neighbor which is a story for another day.Well no milk cow no milk so when my Mom saw the neigbors cow it was manna from heaven she ran to the barn for a pail and was soon proudly walking into the house with a pail of fresh milk. Well her joy was short lived as my Grandfather asked were she had come by the pail of fresh milk. Mom not being one to lie to Grandpa told him of the neigbors cow she had tied up outside and that she was going to return the cow after breakfast. Grandfather then asked if the neigbor had givin her permission to milk the cow of course Mom told hin no. Grandpa then told Mom to return the neigbors cow along with the pail of milk because they did not belong to them. So before breakfast Mom carried a pail of milk while leading a cow the almost two miles to the neigbors farm.

we have alowed to much grey into what should be very black and white.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

rewire said:


> your cable is not free you are stealing it.


The cable companies don't lose any sleep when they slam us every month for channels I don't watch, but are "included" in the package I have to buy in order to get cable TV. 

Anyone who can beat these guys should get an award.. free cable :thumbup:


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## Ray Cyr (Nov 21, 2007)

rewire said:


> I remember a story my Mom told me from her childhood it seems one morning the neighbors milk cow had gotten loose and wandered down to my Grandfathers house. Grandpa had just traded his cow to another neighbor which is a story for another day.Well no milk cow no milk so when my Mom saw the neigbors cow it was manna from heaven she ran to the barn for a pail and was soon proudly walking into the house with a pail of fresh milk. Well her joy was short lived as my Grandfather asked were she had come by the pail of fresh milk. Mom not being one to lie to Grandpa told him of the neigbors cow she had tied up outside and that she was going to return the cow after breakfast. Grandfather then asked if the neigbor had givin her permission to milk the cow of course Mom told hin no. Grandpa then told Mom to return the neigbors cow along with the pail of milk because they did not belong to them. So before breakfast Mom carried a pail of milk while leading a cow the almost two miles to the neigbors farm.
> 
> we have alowed to much grey into what should be very black and white.


That is a nice story and grandpa was right :thumbsup: . Unfortunately, the story is irrelevant, to try to compare the story to the situation with the cable company is akin to comparing apples to oranges.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Ray Cyr said:


> That is a nice story and grandpa was right :thumbsup: . Unfortunately, the story is irrelevant, to try to compare the story to the situation with the cable company is akin to comparing apples to oranges.


 The difference is today some would argue that the cow was on your property so keeping the milk would be OK or some would say it was just a pail of milk and after all the kids needed milk. The best way for evil to triumph :devil2: is for the good to do nothing :innocent:. Grandpa would answer like this, did you pay for the cable? no. should you pay for the cable? yes why aren't you paying for the cable? at this point the only right answer to Grandpa would be I am going to make it right and pay for the cable. No grey area just right or wrong. No apples no oranges just do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

rewire said:


> I remember a story my Mom told me from her childhood it seems one morning the neighbors milk cow had gotten loose and wandered down to my Grandfathers house. Grandpa had just traded his cow to another neighbor which is a story for another day.Well no milk cow no milk so when my Mom saw the neigbors cow it was manna from heaven she ran to the barn for a pail and was soon proudly walking into the house with a pail of fresh milk. Well her joy was short lived as my Grandfather asked were she had come by the pail of fresh milk. Mom not being one to lie to Grandpa told him of the neigbors cow she had tied up outside and that she was going to return the cow after breakfast. Grandfather then asked if the neigbor had givin her permission to milk the cow of course Mom told hin no. Grandpa then told Mom to return the neigbors cow along with the pail of milk because they did not belong to them. So before breakfast Mom carried a pail of milk while leading a cow the almost two miles to the neigbors farm.
> 
> we have alowed to much grey into what should be very black and white.



i think your a pretty good addition to our little group here - but a milk cow and a cable company ?

and taking $20 bucks because i have a thousand makes it right?

if i left a $20 bill on your desk and you called me to tell me i left it and i never returned for it or returned you call is one thing. 

but a service such as cable that is there and the lazy service man that wont go and unhook it - should i get my ladder and unhook it and send them a bill for the use of my services and then get pissed off that they wont pay me ? all the while i sleep better because i am doing the right thing 

misserys telco companies ceo pay packages 

AT&T said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that company CEO Randall Stephenson received a compensation package worth about $15 million

charter communications which is in chapter 11 due no doubt to cable theft

Under its Value Creation Plan, Charter pay Chief Executive Neil Smit up to $8.5 million if the company successfully restructures and if he reaches specified targets during each of the three years following the company's emergence from restructuring.


Comcast Communications
Ralph J. Roberts Chairman SALARY BONUS $1,653,750
Brian L. Roberts President SALARY BONUS $2.787 million


btw milk is 5 dollars a gallon here now and i cant even find a compensation pay pakage for doug smith


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

nolabama said:


> i dont know what the answer is to the OP's question. i dont think they will notice. Now if you drill a hole in the disk and drop a small rod in it thats another story. so is breaking the little tab thingy. My favorite of course was from a guy we called "right-right" - cut the 2"rigid in the attic and install a 2" GUAT, make a tap of the service feeder and run that to a small panel for your HVAC, water heater, and stove ........
> that only works of course if you have a stem thru the attic and are a complete doouche and theif


You should also have a 200amp contactor open the load to the house when the meter is pulled:whistling2:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

jrannis said:


> You should also have a 200amp contactor open the load to the house when the meter is pulled:whistling2:


never gave right-right's idea much thought - yeah a contactor would give that contraption a stealth mode - putting that meter back in might result in a little fireworks however


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

I know someone who did jail time back in the 80's for a pretty ingenious contraption like that, the electric wasn't the only thing he rigged either. Part of his plea was that he had to basically consult all the utility companies on what to look out for.

And premium cable used to be so easy to steal, you didn't even need a hot box, all you needed to do was climb the pole and remove the in line filter, presto....all the premium channels....at least before the digital era.


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## RMatthis (Nov 9, 2009)

OK TRUE STORY!
A guy I worked with years ago told me what happened to him when HE decided to mess with ComED...
He used to pull his meter (or put it upside down, I don't remember) one week a month. He did it for a very long time...then one day ComED came out to his house after an investigation and DEMANDED he pay them almost 10 grand for the money they owed him! They sent their crew UP the pole, clipped his connection and said "we'll put it back on after you pay us" 
He had to take a loan to pay the power company back!
I think that if they wanted to, they could make you pay...Honesty is the best policy.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

RMatthis said:


> OK TRUE STORY!
> A guy I worked with years ago told me what happened to him when HE decided to mess with ComED...
> He used to pull his meter (or put it upside down, I don't remember) one week a month. He did it for a very long time...then one day ComED came out to his house after an investigation and DEMANDED he pay them almost 10 grand for the money they owed him! They sent their crew UP the pole, clipped his connection and said "we'll put it back on after you pay us"
> He had to take a loan to pay the power company back!
> I think that if they wanted to, they could make you pay...Honesty is the best policy.


 Yeah! You really don't want to mess with ComEd!!!


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## pepper (Oct 24, 2009)

UPDATE--- meter started working the other day. just out of the blue , was a few cheap bills for frend but its back to paying again :laughing: :laughing:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

pepper said:


> UPDATE--- meter started working the other day. just out of the blue , was a few cheap bills for frend but its back to paying again :laughing: :laughing:


Glad to here he has joined the honest people.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

pepper said:


> UPDATE--- meter started working the other day. just out of the blue , was a few cheap bills for frend but its back to paying again :laughing: :laughing:


Yea, some times the magnet falls off the side when left for a few weeks. You know, from rain, dew, wind, guilt, remorse, and such.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Grimlock said:


> Yea, some times the magnet falls off the side when left for a few weeks. You know, from rain, dew, wind, guilt, remorse, and such.


MAgnet? Tell me more...


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKDbXhYQwEY
Not free? You guys are beemin the signal to my trailer park without my permission. So I got these little things that pick the signal up from space. What, do you own space? :laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> MAgnet? Tell me more...


I hear that some people lean a broom or mop with a magnet in it next to the meter but, every thing inside of the meter looks like its aluminum to me so I don't know how well it would work


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

Did you know also your meter only reads the highest leg. So a balanced load will lower your bill. Keep your eyes open for the next big thing comin out of Detroit brothers, cut your bill in half!


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

Broom stick and magnet? Be for real! Call me on your two tin cans tied to a string and tell me about it. My # is dot dot dash ....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

user5941 said:


> I remember a story my Mom told me from her childhood it seems one morning the neighbors milk cow had gotten loose and wandered down to my Grandfathers house. Grandpa had just traded his cow to another neighbor which is a story for another day.Well no milk cow no milk so when my Mom saw the neigbors cow it was manna from heaven she ran to the barn for a pail and was soon proudly walking into the house with a pail of fresh milk. Well her joy was short lived as my Grandfather asked were she had come by the pail of fresh milk. Mom not being one to lie to Grandpa told him of the neigbors cow she had tied up outside and that she was going to return the cow after breakfast. Grandfather then asked if the neigbor had givin her permission to milk the cow of course Mom told hin no. Grandpa then told Mom to return the neigbors cow along with the pail of milk because they did not belong to them. So before breakfast Mom carried a pail of milk while leading a cow the almost two miles to the neigbors farm.
> 
> we have alowed to much grey into what should be very black and white.


Then I hope you leave $50 bucks on the nightstand every time you and your wife get friendly, cause some charge for that also, and with your absolute black and white stance we wouldn't want you to stray into a gray area of cheating proper commerce....:whistling2:


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## pepper (Oct 24, 2009)

No, this was for real guys the dude done nothing wrong he said he thinks it happend durning a thunder storm, I saw the meter myself and it had nothing around it and the tag has not been removed so it could have been struck  If it had been mine it would have probley spun faster:whistling2:


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## Burglife (Dec 22, 2009)

If he didn't rig the meter himself then I want to say no. He has no legal duty to report it to the power co.

However, their is a legal principle called "Unjust Enrichment" that could be argued.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

Burglife said:


> If he didn't rig the meter himself then I want to say no. He has no legal duty to report it to the power co.
> 
> However, their is a legal priciple called "Unjust Enrichment" that could be argued.


"Unjust Enrichment"? Sounds like a typical nanny state term. They purchase crap equipment and the state is there to save them from the consequences, just like the banking bail outs (excuse me while I go vomit).


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## Wobbly Head (Nov 7, 2009)

Once had a little job for a freind's father where all of a sudden his electrical bill had gone from 650KW hrs to over 1500KW hrs per month for a little pawn shop flourecent lighs couple TV's fridge checked his power even with every thing on in his shop 24hrs day for a month he would only draw 1300KW hrs. Checked the meter bases for this building every one had the tamper seals cut so someone was playing musical meters with the building tenents meters. All I could tell him is call the local utilities and ask them to fix problem the meters are the utilities property. Also mentioned it might be wise to contact the local drug squad and check out the shop next door that wasn't opened but like it had been ready to open for the last two months.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

The folks at the PoCo are not stupid, and they generally try to be reasonable. 

Technology has made incredible improvements to the ways the PoCo monitor their equipment. They are getting pretty good at tracking down 'line losses.' The short version is, they know how much power they're putting into the line - and are increasingly able to identify just where that power is going. Then they look at their billings.

If a certain street is using $10,000 worth of power, and they're only billing for $5,000, sooner or later they're going to come looking at where it's all going. They'll look at connections with an IR camera. They'll check for ground currents. Each step moves them closer to identifying the source of the shortfall.

If all the stuff on their side looks fine, they'll start looking at the customers. They'll measure power at the pole, and compare it to the meter. They'll swap out meters and see if this fixes the problem. Then they'll start looking for signs of meter tampering or simple power theft.

Most times, they write it off to bad equipment, and all is well. Then again, they have been known to slap customers with whopper-size bills, and expect them to make up the difference. If it comes to that point, you can be sure that they have the goods on you, and are but a whisker away from criminal prosecution.


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