# Is putting a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit a violation?



## Jack Legg (Mar 12, 2014)

yes.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Considering you can put a 15a. duplex recep. on a 20a. ckt, and you couldn't draw any more than 15a. from a 15a.ckt. that's a tuff call. I think your inspector is just being a butt head.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I don't know about Canada but in the US it would violate table 210.21(B)(3) which states that a 15 amp circuit cannot supply a receptacle over 15 amps.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Jack Legg said:


> yes.


Why? This is Canada but it shouldn't make a difference.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Answered, at least according to NEC. What's the reasoning? You could plug a "T" cord end into it?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Not according to the NEC. You can put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit but not a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.


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## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

micromind said:


> I don't know about Canada but in the US it would violate table 210.21(B)(3) which states that a 15 amp circuit cannot supply a receptacle over 15 amps.


 The 15A breaker means you cant supply a receptacle over 15A (theoretically).


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

drspec said:


> Not according to the NEC. You can put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit but not a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.


Hey Drspec .,,

I would like to clearify it little more are ya talking about the run of mill 15 amp *duplex* receptacle ??

if singleplex it is have to be 15 amp on 15 amp receptacle ditto with 20 amp circuits too.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

It's dumb, I can plug in ten different appliances into that 15 amp circuit and overload it. What's the difference if I plug in 1 that overloads it?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Usually, the only appliances and machines that have a 20 amp plug will draw more than 12 amps. Some will draw 16 amps and that would of course, overload a 15 amp circuit.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

99cents said:


> According to my inspector it is. GFCI.


Why do you have a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit to begin with :blink:


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## xXPhasemanXx (May 21, 2017)

About 20 months ago when I was in my first year of school my teacher said it was fine.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Why do you have a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit to begin with :blink:


Because they both cost the same. for a GFCI types


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## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

Jack Legg said:


> yes.


*Rule 26-700(2)* of the CEC

Borgi


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> According to my inspector it is. GFCI.


Of course it is.

Would putting a 50amp receptacle be okay on a 20amp circuit?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Of course it is.
> 
> Would putting a 50amp receptacle be okay on a 20amp circuit?


Now that you mention it... We use 50A receptacles for 40A range feeds often.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Now that you mention it... We use 50A receptacles for 40A range feeds often.


Is it within code to do so?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> Now that you mention it... We use 50A receptacles for 40A range feeds often.


That is specifically addressed by the code.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Is it within code to do so?


Come on now, would *I* do anything that isn't code compliant???


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm curious if I can put 12 50A receptacles on one 40A circuit... or would I have to bump it up to a 50A breaker ?

I don't really see a problem with it, but wanted to put it out there :shifty:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

emtnut said:


> I'm curious if I can put 12 50A receptacles on one 40A circuit... or would I have to bump it up to a 50A breaker ?
> 
> I don't really see a problem with it, but wanted to put it out there :shifty:


Cletis you hacked an account?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Come on now, would *I* do anything that isn't code compliant???


Sure you would!


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

"They"...the powers in charge of electrical smoke ; keep saying how the "code " is a minimum standard ...so does that mean whatever "flights of fancy " take your mind ; I read that at school !...you can convince yourself to feel confident that it's way above that minimum standard ?
Some days when I look at troubleshooting how someone wired a Marina ....I'm convinced they do !


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Is it within code to do so?


Table 210.21(B)(3) specifically allows either a 40 or a 50 amp circuit to supply a 50 amp receptacle.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

micromind said:


> Table 210.21(B)(3) specifically allows either a 40 or a 50 amp circuit to supply a 50 amp receptacle.


Just for stoves?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just for stoves?


It doesn't specify the type of load so it's apply to any load.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I told you I would never, ever break the code.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I told you I would never, ever break the code.


I go above and beyond the code because it's better and safer.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I go above and beyond the code because it's better and safer.


Yeah, that's why I put outside disconnects on all services, because it's 100% safer.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, that's why I put outside disconnects on all services, because it's 100% safer.


Haven't seen that guy in a while.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, that's why I put outside disconnects on all services, because it's 100% easier.




Fify. Not kidding.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Fify. Not kidding.


Silly boy. Installing another large piece of equipment that needs large cable termination, having to bring the GEC outside, having to run 4 wire SER inside, having to separate the grounds and neutrals, etc. is far from easier.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Silly boy. Installing another large piece of equipment that needs large cable termination, having to bring the GEC outside, having to run 4 wire SER inside, having to separate the grounds and neutrals, etc. is far from easier.


Practical thinking.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I had an unpackaged 20A GFCI in the van and wanted to get rid of it. I was just thinking bigger is better; never thought past it. Now I know  .


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

99cents said:


> I had an unpackaged 20A GFCI in the van and wanted to get rid of it. I was just thinking bigger is better; never thought past it. Now I know  .


Good to hear you put it back to a 15A :thumbsup:

Someone could have plugged in a 2200VA UPS on their kitchen counter
Handy to make coffee and toast in a power outage


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

emtnut said:


> Good to hear you put it back to a 15A :thumbsup:


Tomorrow morning it gets changed out. It stands between me and my money  .


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Tomorrow morning it gets changed out. It stands between me and my money  .


 If your inspector even notices he is gayer than normal inspectors.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> If your inspector even notices he is gayer than normal inspectors.


He already noticed. That's what this thread is about. He happened to see it when he and 99 were cuddling about to watch The Notebook.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

RePhase277 said:


> He already noticed. That's what this thread is about. He happened to see it when he and 99 were cuddling about to watch The Notebook.


I wasn't even there. It was a note on the GREEN sticker.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

99cents said:


> I wasn't even there. It was a note on the GREEN sticker.


Soooo..... you watched The Notebook at his place?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

RePhase277 said:


> Soooo..... you watched The Notebook at his place?


I heard they did. 99 disappointed him that evening ... that's why inspector wrote him up :shifty:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

emtnut said:


> I heard they did. 99 disappointed him that evening ... that's why inspector wrote him up :shifty:


You go looking for inches and find centimeters...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> You go looking for inches and find centimeters...


He went looking for pole and found a vag.


Too mean? Sorry 99cents, RePhase made me do it.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Rephase told me that 99 is an ol' softie


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

emtnut said:


> Rephase told me that 99 is an ol' softie


I told you that in the shower in confidence I'm going to stop telling you stuff


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Rephase told me that 99 is an ol' softie


I see on tv ads they have pills for that problem!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This thread is gayer than AIDS.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> This thread is gayer than AIDS.



Especially the part where you always have to mount the circuit breaker panels immediately adjacent to where the poco meter is located, which you damn well know is not always so easy to manage , whereas if you had just installed a combo meter /main (one piece of equipment , not two by the way) you can run a long piece of ser cable to wherever is convenient and code acceptable to make a sub panel holding all your branch circuits for the place. (do you really think it takes all that much longer to use a separate grounding bar instead of a mixed neutral and ground busbar? Give me a break) I like my panels to go into a hallway near to a kitchen so my large loads are shorter wire than having to make them go all the way to the non existent basement or other end of the house, and land in a surface panel that has to be mounted on a piece of treated (painted) plywood instead of nicely flush concealed in between studs. Tell me again how much easier your way is, I'm all ears.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> This thread is gayer than AIDS.


Okay, you pissed me off and I guess that's your intention. You know I have a gay family member. I also know two people who have died of AIDS and they were better human beings than you will ever hope to be.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

99cents said:


> Okay, you pissed me off and I guess that's your intention. You know I have a gay family member. I also know two people who have died of AIDS and they were better human beings than you will ever hope to be.


Pretty much everyone has a gay family member, that's what makes it so fun. Don't get your labia in a twist.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Okay, you pissed me off and I guess that's your intention. You know I have a gay family member. I also know two people who have died of AIDS and they were better human beings than you will ever hope to be.


Hey look, no one is allowed to make gay or AIDS jokes because 99cents knows people.

Let's shut down the forum. It was fun while it lasted


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

**** you guys. He crossed the line with AIDS.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> **** you guys. He crossed the line with AIDS.


Oh stop, as if you never told someone you hoped they slipped and fell into a big bucket of AIDS.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The line was crossed when they tested it out large scale in Haiti. Did we all forget?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

99cents said:


> **** you guys. He crossed the line with AIDS.



Go back to Canada and take your thought police with you.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

99cents said:


> **** you guys. He crossed the line with AIDS.


There's a line?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> There's a line?


Yes there is. Testing it out on a large scale on the worlds poorest population that some in your crowd feel are sub humans , yeah, that's crossing the line. But that is what they did.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Hey look, no one is allowed to make gay or AIDS jokes because 99cents knows people.
> 
> Let's shut down the forum. It was fun while it lasted


It's too bad mxslick is not around because he would have gone on a tirade and then locked it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Especially the part where you always have to mount the circuit breaker panels immediately adjacent to where the poco meter is located, which you damn well know is not always so easy to manage , whereas if you had just installed a combo meter /main (one piece of equipment , not two by the way) you can run a long piece of ser cable to wherever is convenient and code acceptable to make a sub panel holding all your branch circuits for the place. (do you really think it takes all that much longer to use a separate grounding bar instead of a mixed neutral and ground busbar? Give me a break) I like my panels to go into a hallway near to a kitchen so my large loads are shorter wire than having to make them go all the way to the non existent basement or other end of the house, and land in a surface panel that has to be mounted on a piece of treated (painted) plywood instead of nicely flush concealed in between studs. Tell me again how much easier your way is, I'm all ears.


I just noticed this post now, why was it replying to my gay AIDS thread post? :blink:

Anyway, once out of maybe 70-80 service upgrades require the panel to be in a position that is far enough away from the service entrance to require and outside disconnect. I've done a few that way, posted pictures. The customer paid $500-700 more, and the end result was a large ugly box on the outside of their house with absolutely no other benefit. 

Combo meter/mains are not allowed by my PoCo or any other big PoCo in the state. We have discussed this many times before.

Everyone here knows it's much easier to install a typical "_meter outside main panel inside_" service than one with an added disconnect so I don't know what more you want me to explain.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> Yes there is. Testing it out on a large scale on the worlds poorest population that some in your crowd feel are sub humans , yeah, that's crossing the line. But that is what they did.


Testing a virus out on people and joking on a forum are lightyears apart. That's like comparing ohms to cuddle fish.

And what is "my crowd"?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Outside disconnects are stupid. A regular 200 amp meter socket that we use here is $50 while a 200 amp meter main is almost $400. And as Hax said, it's much bigger and looks terrible. We only use them when necessary.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

RePhase277 said:


> I told you that in the shower in confidence I'm going to stop telling you stuff


I still don't know how you said it ... given your mouth was full :shifty:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

emtnut said:


> I still don't know how you said it ... given your mouth was full :shifty:


Plenty of room left over...


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Making a deal about that is super ******ed. Inspectors....


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

MTW said:


> Outside disconnects are stupid. A regular 200 amp meter socket that we use here is $50 while a 200 amp meter main is almost $400. And as Hax said, it's much bigger and looks terrible. We only use them when necessary.


200 amp meter main $150 or less around here


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

HackWork said:


> the end result was a large ugly box on the outside


put it on the same side of the house as the large ugly air conditioner condenser


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I still can't imagine having to pay $7-10 extra for a ground bar. Maybe even *2*!


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

readydave8 said:


> 200 amp meter main $150 or less around here


Yeah, a GE or CH one with feed through lugs costs that but our Poco won't let us use that style.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> Especially the part where you always have to mount the circuit breaker panels immediately adjacent to where the poco meter is located, which you damn well know is not always so easy to manage , whereas if you had just installed a combo meter /main (one piece of equipment , not two by the way) you can run a long piece of ser cable to wherever is convenient and code acceptable to make a sub panel holding all your branch circuits for the place. (do you really think it takes all that much longer to use a separate grounding bar instead of a mixed neutral and ground busbar? Give me a break) I like my panels to go into a hallway near to a kitchen so my large loads are shorter wire than having to make them go all the way to the non existent basement or other end of the house, and land in a surface panel that has to be mounted on a piece of treated (painted) plywood instead of nicely flush concealed in between studs. Tell me again how much easier your way is, I'm all ears.


This post came out of nowhere....but I agree, in my State(Idaho) a meter/main is acceptable. A lot of older homes have main panels at 50-100amps. When upgrading to 200 amps it is much easier to use the old can as a junction box and throw a meter/main up outside/extend new circuit jumpers to the now j-box. Never had a complaint yet, and actually have gotten compliments from the inspector on the install, FWIW :thumbsup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Widestance_Politics said:


> This post came out of nowhere....but I agree, in my State(Idaho) a meter/main is acceptable. A lot of older homes have main panels at 50-100amps. When upgrading to 200 amps it is much easier to use the old can as a junction box and throw a meter/main up outside/extend new circuit jumpers to the now j-box. Never had a complaint yet, and actually have gotten compliments from the inspector on the install, FWIW :thumbsup:


WHY? It's in no way "much easier" to do what you said. 

Why would you possibly do all the work of extending all the circuit from the existing panel location to a new outside panel?

It's common to just remove the old panel and install a new larger panel in it's position. It's typical for a service upgrade. I've done this hundreds and hundreds of times and I can't think of a simple instance in which it would be easier or better to extend all the circuits to an outside panel.

FWIW, macmikeman is talking about a meter/main as in a main breaker, he still puts the panel with all the circuits inside.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

drspec said:


> Not according to the NEC. You can put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit but not a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.


You can put a 15 amp duplex rec on a 20 amp circuit. Right? A single would have to be a 20.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

My other thoughts on this thread. 
You guys were mean to 99, have a little respect. 
I think meter main are a good idea. I think every new service should have an outside disconnect.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> My other thoughts on this thread.
> You guys were mean to 99, have a little respect.
> I think meter main are a good idea. I think every new service should have an outside disconnect.













99cents tried to troll with the big boys and found himself running away in tears. Don't follow his lead with this weak ass trolling.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> My other thoughts on this thread.
> *You guys were mean to 99, have a little respect. *
> I think meter main are a good idea. I think every new service should have an outside disconnect.


I agree with you, his mom just passed and he is still hurting. 

He hasn't been his usual self since she's gone.

Notice he hasn't been back.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I agree with you, his mom just passed and he is still hurting.
> 
> He hasn't been his usual self since she's gone.
> 
> Notice he hasn't been back.


He left immediately after my AIDS joke, which was not directed at him.. His last post said "_**** you guys. He crossed the line with AIDS._"

I don't feel bad because he had no problem trolling the day before: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f33/london-fire-212634/

If you are going to be a troll yourself, you can't draw your own line in the sand and expect other people not to cross it. If you are out setting bait to mess with people, you are going to get messed with back. 

And I still maintain that this thread is gayer than AIDS.

And before you get mad at me, remember that I don't get mad and run off when Sabrina makes fun of my cancer or chicken Steve said my fissure was cause by fisting or Jeremy Hall told me he hoped my heart exploded and Miller said my heart issues are because my fingers are covered in mayo. It's all in good fun! :thumbsup:

And FYI, Sabrina was trolling when he said that about 99cents, just like he was with his next sentence about the meter/main.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> He left immediately after my AIDS joke, which was not directed at him.. His last post said "_**** you guys. He crossed the line with AIDS._"
> 
> I don't feel bad because he had no problem trolling the day before: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f33/london-fire-212634/
> 
> ...


I'm not the easily offended type, I take it and give it out.

Just thinking the timing for 99 was bad based on a couple other things he had posted prior about traveling and moving and all.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I'm not the easily offended type, I take it and give it out.
> 
> Just thinking the timing for 99 was bad based on a couple other things he had posted prior about traveling and moving and all.


I hear you and I do feel bad if he was going thru a tough time, but it didn't seem like he was when he was messing with other people, which is why I didn't feel bad messing with him back. 

He's a adult and we are all just here to break balls so I am sure he will pop out of it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I hear you and I do feel bad if he was going thru a tough time, but it didn't seem like he was when he was messing with other people, which is why I didn't feel bad messing with him back.
> 
> He's a adult and we are all just here to break balls so I am sure he will pop out of it.


Hate to take it here but I do think Union guys are less offended by ball busting or should I say guys that worked on larger crew construction jobs with more of it.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

He should change his name to 4 cents, because he isn't worth a nickel as a troll. He knows people so we shouldn't make comments? Yeah, OK. He's probably banging Steve and his goats as we speak.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Hate to take it here but I do think Union guys are less offended by ball busting or should I say guys that worked on larger crew construction jobs with more of it.


You mean like:


Johnny: Fu*k your mother!
Mike: I just fu*ked your's last night!
Johnny: Oh, if you do it again tell her I said hi.
Mike: Ok, will do. She's a nice lady.
Johnny: Yeah, mom's the best, you found a good one.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> You mean like:
> 
> 
> Johnny: Fu*k your mother!
> ...


Exactly like that.

You forgot one, 

Mike "yup, if she did for your dad what she did for me he'd a kept her".


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> You can put a 15 amp duplex rec on a 20 amp circuit. Right? A single would have to be a 20.


Im pretty sure that was established in an earlier post on page 1 but thanks for sharing


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

I hate this piece of code.
It's not as simple as "bigger is better". More like "heavy duty device lasts longer". I really don't care about the money either; if it's $5 more for a GFCI that will last until I retire, I'd gladly pay it...my customers will too.
I use #12 for receptacle circuits anyway, but I just think it's a quality of life issue in a place where you know the loads will be heavier like small motor appliances, kitchen coffee bar, space heater receptacle, sump pump, some exercise equip, dehumidifier, etc. This year I've replaced a few receptacles where someone made a home office and bought a coffee maker or electric tea kettle. I put a 20 amp rec in there because I don't see any reason to think that it won't last longer.

I'd rather the breaker trip than the receptacle fry. No?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Hi Hax 👋


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> I hate this piece of code.
> It's not as simple as "bigger is better". More like "heavy duty device lasts longer". I really don't care about the money either; if it's $5 more for a GFCI that will last until I retire, I'd gladly pay it...my customers will too.
> I use #12 for receptacle circuits anyway, but I just think it's a quality of life issue in a place where you know the loads will be heavier like small motor appliances, kitchen coffee bar, space heater receptacle, sump pump, some exercise equip, dehumidifier, etc. This year I've replaced a few receptacles where someone made a home office and bought a coffee maker or electric tea kettle. I put a 20 amp rec in there because I don't see any reason to think that it won't last longer.
> 
> I'd rather the breaker trip than the receptacle fry. No?


Receptacles have the same internal parts regardless whether they are 15 or 20A. If you take a 15A commercial grade receptacle apart, you will find that the only difference from a 20A is the molded face. They even have the T slot provisions. Now if you are comparing a low end 15A residential grade $.69 receptacle to a 20A commercial one, that's a different story. But within the same grade, they have identical internal components.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

Interesting ...most folks have cheaper receptacles in their houses. I'm a 99% residential electrician.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> Interesting ...most folks have cheaper receptacles in their houses. I'm a 99% residential electrician.


Did you totally miss the point in Forge Boyz post ??


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

No. Did you? Here it is in a nutshell:
There is no significant difference between commercial grade receptacles.
There is a significant difference between residential and commercial grade receptacles.

-----
Although I am aware of the superiority of a "T" socket, I never took a chisel to 15 and 20 amp commercial grade receptacles to see the sameness or difference in terms of conductivity, so I found this interesting.

That is also why I immediately liked his post; concise, straight forward, information is a good thing.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> No. Did you? Here it is in a nutshell:
> There is no significant difference between commercial grade receptacles.
> There is a significant difference between residential and commercial grade receptacles.
> 
> ...


No Greg, YOU did.

In residential grade, the 15 and 20 amp receptacles ARE THE SAME INTERNALLY
In commercial grade, the 15 and 20 amp receptacles ARE THE SAME INTERNALLY.

There IS a difference internally between resi and commercial grade.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Forge Boyz said:


> Receptacles have the same internal parts regardless whether they are 15 or 20A. If you take a 15A commercial grade receptacle apart, you will find that the only difference from a 20A is the molded face. They even have the T slot provisions. Now if you are comparing a low end 15A residential grade $.69 receptacle to a 20A commercial one, that's a different story. But within the same grade, they have identical internal components.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


The 250 volt ones also have the same base, just a different faceplate.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

micromind said:


> The 250 volt ones also have the same base, just a different faceplate.


Makes sense. On a 15A split, there is 240V there anyways.


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

emtnut said:


> No Greg, YOU did.
> 
> In residential grade, the 15 and 20 amp receptacles ARE THE SAME INTERNALLY
> In commercial grade, the 15 and 20 amp receptacles ARE THE SAME INTERNALLY.
> ...


I came by yesterday and just saw this..
If that's what he meant, he's wrong.

My boss and I busted up a bunch of receptacles about 20 years ago and I haven't really thought about this since then... but then yesterday I saw this post and it gave me pause - so I just had to go and **** up some outlets while I was watching the 2nd Hobbit movie again last night.

From left to right: residential 15 amp, commercial 15 amp, residential 20 amp, commercial 20 amp.

Clearly the biggest difference is between the residential 15 amp and all of the others.

But there is definitely a difference between each of the others. No question about it: 20 amp residential is more heavy duty than 15 amp commercial (with a T terminal on both the hot and neutral sides) and the 20 amp commercial is more heavy duty than 20 amp residential (thicker metal, greater surface area for all conductors).

Science FTW.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

All the same brand?


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> I came by yesterday and just saw this..
> If that's what he meant, he's wrong.
> 
> My boss and I busted up a bunch of receptacles about 20 years ago and I haven't really thought about this since then... but then yesterday I saw this post and it gave me pause - so I just had to go and **** up some outlets while I was watching the 2nd Hobbit movie again last night.
> ...


It would be more instructive to have devices from the same brand and "line". You have 4 different types there. The third from the left is not what I would call a residential receptacle. If it is it is a $5 on not a $.69 one. The pressure plates are the giveaway. It is actually highly likely that the cheap 15A are their own make, but if you were to take say an Eaton CR15 and a CR20 they would be identical. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

micromind said:


> I don't know about Canada but in the US it would violate table 210.21(B)(3) which states that a 15 amp circuit cannot supply a receptacle over 15 amps.


I like it when the code reference is included. Many people including myself quote things from memory and might not be up to date.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> I like it when the code reference is included. Many people including myself quote things from memory and might not be up to date.


Same here, I look it up because I've been wrong too many times.......


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

The receptacles are (as pictured):
Leviton, Eaton, Eaton, and NAI (which I think is North American Industries).

Yeah: the Leviton is not a cheapo receptacle; I know they do have a lower quality HD line. I'm not really aware of $.69 receptacles and so they aren't really relevant to me. I'd rather compare quality components since that is for practical use.
Leviton and Eaton are common brands here; both are good quality. I bought 2 boxes of the NAI recs about a year or 2 ago for stock to use in workshops and such (not familiar with the brand in general, but they are a regional company and they seem to be good quality).

I'm satisfied that there is a difference and I'm not going to spend any more time on this; feel free to buy receptacles and chisel them to death.

KB1JB1
The quick code reference is the table in 2017: 210.21(B)(3)


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Forge Boyz said:


> The third from the left is not what I would call a residential receptacle. The pressure plates are the giveaway.





Greg Sparkovich said:


> From left to right: residential 15 amp, commercial 15 amp, residential 20 amp, commercial 20 amp.
> No question about it: 20 amp residential is more heavy duty than 15 amp commercial (with a T terminal on both the hot and neutral sides)
> Science FTW.


See Forge Boyz post, the third from the left is a commercial recept, the back wiring option gives it away.

The T terminal on both the hot and neutral doesn't make it more heavy duty, that is just a standard insert so it can be mated with a 5-15, 5-20, 6-15, 6-20 cover plate.



> Science FTW.


Science is like a woman, sometimes, just when you think you have won, she turns around and bites you in the ass.


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

Eaton disagrees with you.

I labeled the receptacles as the boxes were labeled; 3rd from the left is an Eaton Residential 20Amp and is definitely a lighter gage than the 4th from the left (albeit a different brand).


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> Eaton disagrees with you.
> 
> I labeled the receptacles as the boxes were labeled; 3rd from the left is an Eaton Residential 20Amp and is definitely a lighter gage than the 4th from the left (albeit a different brand).


Comparing different brands is doing exactly that, comparing different brands. 

A 15 and 20 amp receptacle of the same grade and brand will have no difference in the quality of their internal components


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> Eaton disagrees with you.
> 
> I labeled the receptacles as the boxes were labeled; 3rd from the left is an Eaton Residential 20Amp and is definitely a lighter gage than the 4th from the left (albeit a different brand).


I half agree with you now.

I looked at the Eaton website, and all their duplex Residential grade do no have the back-wired option like yours.
The Eaton "ASPIRE" Decora does have the back-wired and side wire.
However, although they list it as Residential, it also has Residential/Commercial use marked in the specs.
The Aspire is also a much pricier recept than the regular Resi grade ones.

I think it was Forge Boys who already noted that no way was it a $1 recept. He was right.

So, the Aspire is a better resi recept and you pay for it.
And the statement still stands ... There is no difference in the innards between 15 and 20A recepts


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