# To loop feed or not to loop feed...



## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

Im rewiring an RV park
I have the choice of loop feeding the sites or separately feeding them.
Each have there pros and cons, but wished would YOU do?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

sparky723 said:


> Im rewiring an RV park I have the choice of loop feeding the sites or separately feeding them. Each have there pros and cons, but wished would YOU do?


Peds are made to be looped, I would do it that way( have done it that way).


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

backstay said:


> Peds are made to be looped, I would do it that way( have done it that way).


I'm not planning on using pedestals but post mounted boxes.
Also if I loop feed then I don't have future individual troubleshooting capability should something go south.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

sparky723 said:


> I'm not planning on using pedestals but post mounted boxes.
> Also if I loop feed then I don't have future individual troubleshooting capability should something go south.


It sounds like your mind is already made up, why even post this question then?


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

Cow said:


> It sounds like your mind is already made up, why even post this question then?


I was just stating why I like the individual feed over loop feed.
Wanted to hear everyone's option as to why they thought one way is better than the other.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Like Backstay, I would loop feed pedestals.

Any issues you have with the underground wiring can be found with a locator and pinpointer. I don't see any reason to waste extra wire and breaker spaces to feed the sites individually.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

sparky723 said:


> I'm not planning on using pedestals but post mounted boxes. Also if I loop feed then I don't have future individual troubleshooting capability should something go south.


I have dealt with boxes, posts and conduit. I would never use them again. I put my wiring in conduit in the ground, 90 up into the ped. Troubleshooting is not an issue.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

Ok I can take the lashing.... What do you mean by loop feed?? I do mostly houses and dont know what a "loop feed" is..


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Bugz11B said:


> Ok I can take the lashing.... What do you mean by loop feed?? I do mostly houses and dont know what a "loop feed" is..


I only used the term when piping , I might connect two pipe runs together
with a stick of pipe should there be a break / obstruction in the pipe in the slab . Two ways to get there without chopping concrete .


The only Loop Feed I have seen is the Primaries at a race track were fed both ways as a safety issue when running Lites at a night race . There were 11 , 1000a /1200a , Switch Gear Locations .



Pete


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Bugz11B said:


> Ok I can take the lashing.... What do you mean by loop feed?? I do mostly houses and dont know what a "loop feed" is..


Loop feeding a ped is when the feeders come into the ped, land on a set of double lugs and then leave out the bottom to feed the next ped. Really no different than the way you would wire receptacles.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

pete87 said:


> I only used the term when piping , I might connect two pipe runs together
> with a stick of pipe should there be a break / obstruction in the pipe in the slab . Two ways to get there without chopping concrete .
> 
> 
> ...






backstay said:


> Loop feeding a ped is when the feeders come into the ped, land on a set of double lugs and then leave out the bottom to feed the next ped. Really no different than the way you would wire receptacles.


Thanks both of you, got it now. new term learned.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Bugz11B said:


> Thanks both of you, got it now. new term learned.


Careful , the primaries remain Hot if one side is turned off . Both ways need to be off to kill voltage . It is not just a feed through panel .

As with RV pans the term means a bit different .





Pete


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

pete87 said:


> Careful , the primaries remain Hot if one side is turned off . Both ways need to be off to kill voltage . It is not just a feed through panel .
> 
> As with RV pans the term means a bit different .
> 
> ...


Pete, are you talking about a radial feed EU) as opposed to the "daisychain" or "loop feed mentioned above" ?


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Pete, are you talking about a radial feed EU) as opposed to the "daisychain" or "loop feed mentioned above" ?




Not sure of the correct term to use . But yes the Primaries 13.8 , for the 11 switch gear transformers were double fed Loop going round the race track .
Safer and more reliable system .
They actually used 3 different power systems at all times . they brought in Generators to be running at the time of the race ,every third light was on this and the transfer switches were wired backwards at those switch gear locations . The house power and generator as normally found were every second lite , and they had another system in for the first light .
Very safe . we can not have our race car heroes die in a power outage .


Pete


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

We aren't talking race tracks and race cars...we are talking about an RV park.
It's power in/power out.
To kill 1 on a row you gotta kill all 7 
Not sure why loop feed is more popular, but It is.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

pete87 said:


> Not sure of the correct term to use . But yes the Primaries 13.8 , for the 11 switch gear transformers were double fed Loop going round the race track .
> Safer and more reliable system .
> They actually used 3 different power systems at all times . they brought in Generators to be running at the time of the race ,every third light was on this and the transfer switches were wired backwards at those switch gear locations . The house power and generator as normally found were every second lite , and they had another system in for the first light .
> Very safe . we can not have our race car heroes die in a power outage .
> ...


That's just awesome. Sounds like a data center. Some will literally have 4 separate power systems each with their own ATS and back up genny.


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

backstay said:


> Loop feeding a ped is when the feeders come into the ped, land on a set of double lugs and then leave out the bottom to feed the next ped. Really no different than the way you would wire receptacles.


I've decided to loop feed.
When you loop feed do you use a multi conductor direct burial cable? What's easiest?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

sparky723 said:


> I've decided to loop feed. When you loop feed do you use a multi conductor direct burial cable? What's easiest?


I use my normal direct burial(triplex)neutral must be full size. I add a USE for the grounding conductor and stuff all of it in the appropriate sized PVC.


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## JBrzoz00 (Nov 17, 2013)

I'd just make sure its in slightly oversized pipe.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

JBrzoz00 said:


> I'd just make sure its in slightly oversized pipe.


I use 2-1/2 inch PVC


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

backstay said:


> I use my normal direct burial(triplex)neutral must be full size. I add a USE for the grounding conductor and stuff all of it in the appropriate sized PVC.


USE=underground service entrance 
Correct?

I'd like to find a 4,wire cable to run. Any ideas if this is even made?
Or is it cheaper to do it backstay's way?


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, 5 spools (1900 lbs) of Rust (250-250-250-3/0) just got dropped off at my house.
Someone mentioned 2.5" PVC.
Why so big?
This looks like it can easily slip in through 2".


Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

sparky723 said:


> Well, 5 spools (1900 lbs) of Rust (250-250-250-3/0) just got dropped off at my house. Someone mentioned 2.5" PVC. Why so big? This looks like it can easily slip in through 2". Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


If you do the fill calc, I think you will find 2 in too small.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

sparky723 said:


> Well, 5 spools (1900 lbs) of Rust (250-250-250-3/0) just got dropped off at my house.
> Someone mentioned 2.5" PVC.
> Why so big?
> This looks like it can easily slip in through 2".
> ...


You will have to know the OD of the cable. Then look in your code book. PVC sch 40 at 53% fill is 1.744 sq. in. If your cable is smaller then 2" is fine.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

dawgs said:


> You will have to know the OD of the cable. Then look in your code book. PVC sch 40 at 53% fill is 1.744 sq. in. If your cable is smaller then 2" is fine.


My guess is your going to need 2-1/2".


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## minichopper6hp (Apr 19, 2014)

Also why make the pull harder than it has to be. The price difference on the pvc is minimal.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

200 amp 120/240 volt 1 ph, in aluminum is always 2-1/2 PVC for me. It doesn't matter if it's 4/0 or 250.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

I don't even like 4/0 AL in 2" so I wouldn't even consider running 250 AL in anything less than 2.5" regardless of what the pipe fill calc says.


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