# How was large wire pulled before?



## Bird dog

Same way everyone does it now that doesn't have a tugger. Back in the '60s, the 1860s mind you...:vs_laugh:
Rope, sheaves (pulleys) & something to pull the rope. Gang of men, car, truck, forklift (forks pulling rope up), threader (with pipe in it, secured to something, to wrap rope around), etc.


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## CoolWill

Wire pulling machines have always existed.


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## Wirenuting

CoolWill said:


> Wire pulling machines have always existed.


They are called apprentices. :vs_cool:


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## 277boy

I should clarify, I know there was always some mechanical means. I was more thinking about the increased friction from cloth and rubber jackets and the natural rope that dosen't have a 20k lb breaking strength.


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## Wirenuting

277boy said:


> I should clarify, I know there was always some mechanical means. I was more thinking about the increased friction from cloth and rubber jackets and the natural rope that dosen't have a 20k lb breaking strength.


We pushed and we pulled and could feel how the wire went in. 
If you go slow there is very little friction to worry about. 
All of that hasn't changed over the years.


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## canbug

One ton van with a stretchy rope. Ah, me inside a CDP feeding 500MCM and all of a sudden, swoosh. I'm lucky I still have all my fingers.

Tim.


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## splatz

I am trying to remember if the American Electrician's Handbook had any primitive low tech methods for pulling wire. They definitely have low tech methods of erecting poles and other line work. I might be mixing it up with the Hawkins electrical books, which you can get on Project Gutenberg for free. If you're interested in the historic stuff, I highly recommend these books.


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## 277boy

splatz said:


> I am trying to remember if the American Electrician's Handbook had any primitive low tech methods for pulling wire. They definitely have low tech methods of erecting poles and other line work. I might be mixing it up with the Hawkins electrical books, which you can get on Project Gutenberg for free. If you're interested in the historic stuff, I highly recommend these books.


I actaully have a couple of hawkins books and that's exactly the kinda info I was wondering about. The ones I have have tables for grate size and stack height for building your town's lighting plant.


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## CoolWill

Powdered soapstone was the lubricant of the pros. And things weren't necessarily engineered for economy. If the labor cost went down because of a slight increase in material cost, well by golly you used a 3" conduit instead of a 1.5".


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## VELOCI3

Back in the days of star bits, hand drills, and soldered splices with friction tape


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## gpop

I watched 15-20 irish guys use hemp rope and pulley's to drag in a 4 core 1000mcm marine cable years ago. 

They started to sing then seemed to get into a pattern with the song and moved as a team. It didn't take long to pull in over a thousand feet.


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## CoolWill

gpop said:


> I watched 15-20 irish guys use hemp rope and pulley's to drag in a 4 core 1000mcm marine cable years ago.
> 
> They started to sing then seemed to get into a pattern with the song and moved as a team. It didn't take long to pull in over a thousand feet.


Yeah, but after all the cable feet were pulled and the terminations made, they were still Irish.


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## joe-nwt

gpop said:


> I watched 15-20 irish guys use hemp rope and pulley's to drag in a 4 core 1000mcm marine cable years ago.
> 
> They started to sing then seemed to get into a pattern with the song and moved as a team. It didn't take long to pull in over a thousand feet.


Pfft! That's only 4000lbs or so.


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## gpop

joe-nwt said:


> Pfft! That's only 4000lbs or so.


Its not the weight its the bends that will kill ya.


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## joebanana

gpop said:


> I watched 15-20 irish guys use hemp rope and pulley's to drag in a 4 core 1000mcm marine cable years ago.
> 
> They started to sing then seemed to get into a pattern with the song and moved as a team. It didn't take long to pull in over a thousand feet.


That's it, coordination is key. Nothing like pulling your.........brains out while the feeder is trying to get the last drop of soap out of the bottle.


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## Southeast Power

CoolWill said:


> Yeah, but after all the cable feet were pulled and the terminations made, they were still Irish.


And you will always be an asshole. :sad:


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## CoolWill

Southeast Power said:


> And you will always be an asshole. :sad:


I'm sorry. I thought you were American. My mistake.:surprise:


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## MTW

CoolWill said:


> I'm sorry. I thought you were American. My mistake.:surprise:


His ultimate allegiance is to communism, so he has no national identity.


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## CoolWill

joebanana said:


> that's it, coordination is key. Nothing like pulling your.........brains out while the feeder is trying to get the last drop of soap out of the bottle.


1..2..3.. Pullllll! 1..2..3.. Pullllll!


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## macmikeman

When electrification started in America, Clipper Ships were still in abundance. That generation was very well versed in pulleys and blocks. That's how it was done at first. Oh, and they used horse power. Real horses. Really. 

We had Mr Pelon when I was a very young child before 1960 rolled around. He delivered milk to the residences of Riverside Ontario using a horse pulled covered wagon and this is not baloney, bologna....... There was a alley between each street and he went up and down those with his rig and dropped glass bottles of milk off to people's back doors. My dad loved to tell my mother that I was such a little bastard that I must of been Pelon's.........................


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## splatz

macmikeman said:


> We had Mr Pelon when I was a very young child before 1960 rolled around. He delivered milk to the residences of Riverside Ontario using a horse pulled covered wagon and this is not baloney, bologna....... There was a alley between each street and he went up and down those with his rig and dropped glass bottles of milk off to people's back doors. My dad loved to tell my mother that I was such a little bastard that I must of been Pelon's.........................


There were still a few milk men that used horse drawn carts here into the late 1960's. Just about every house had a small square galvanized cooler on the porch where the milk man delivered the milk and you set out the empty glass bottles. 

There was one dairy here that still sold milk and cream in those quart and half gallon glass bottles until maybe ten years ago. The deposit on the bottles was about as much as the milk. You could only buy it at the dairy's store and a few grocery stores close by. What a difference! It tasted a lot better than what you get at the grocery store. They still have great ice cream but no longer sell milk and cream.


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## splatz

macmikeman said:


> When electrification started in America, Clipper Ships were still in abundance. That generation was very well versed in pulleys and blocks. That's how it was done at first. Oh, and they used horse power. Real horses. Really.


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## B-Nabs

splatz said:


> There were still a few milk men that used horse drawn carts here into the late 1960's. Just about every house had a small square galvanized cooler on the porch where the milk man delivered the milk and you set out the empty glass bottles.
> 
> 
> 
> There was one dairy here that still sold milk and cream in those quart and half gallon glass bottles until maybe ten years ago. The deposit on the bottles was about as much as the milk. You could only buy it at the dairy's store and a few grocery stores close by. What a difference! It tasted a lot better than what you get at the grocery store. They still have great ice cream but no longer sell milk and cream.


We have a dairy here in Vancouver that still sells its milk in 1L glass bottles, Avalon Dairy. Like you said, the deposit is very high. Milk delivery is uncommon, but this dairy sells its milk at many local grocery stores. It's really good stuff but I only buy it as a treat as it's about 4x the price of the stuff in the plastic 4L bottles. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## CoolWill

splatz said:


> There were still a few milk men that used horse drawn carts here into the late 1960's. Just about every house had a small square galvanized cooler on the porch where the milk man delivered the milk and you set out the empty glass bottles.
> 
> There was one dairy here that still sold milk and cream in those quart and half gallon glass bottles until maybe ten years ago. The deposit on the bottles was about as much as the milk. You could only buy it at the dairy's store and a few grocery stores close by. What a difference! It tasted a lot better than what you get at the grocery store. They still have great ice cream but no longer sell milk and cream.


Fun fact: Half a gallon has its own unit name. A "pottle".


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## HertzHound

splatz said:


> There were still a few milk men that used horse drawn carts here into the late 1960's. Just about every house had a small square galvanized cooler on the porch where the milk man delivered the milk and you set out the empty glass bottles.


Although they didn’t use horse drawn carts, we had a milk man and an egg man till the mid 70s. Not sure when or why we stopped getting milk delivery, but egg deliveries stopped when the egg man passed away :sad:


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## 277boy

Could actaully still get the glass bottle milk in Southern IL, at least when I left a few years ago. Not sure it's as fresh as what you all are talking about but was certainly better then the plastic stuff.


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## HertzHound

macmikeman said:


> When electrification started in America, Clipper Ships were still in abundance. That generation was very well versed in pulleys and blocks.



That's what I was thinking. Not so much pullys and blocks, but maybe a Capstan attached to a chain fall sort of. But I guess they never made such a thing?


I worked for a guy that actually used the hand crank wire puller. We used it for small feeder type pulls in busy areas above product lines. Iv'e seen one in my current employers warehouse, But nobody has ever used it. It looks about 50 years old.


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## Wirenuting

CoolWill said:


> I'm sorry. I thought you were American. My mistake.:surprise:


Only two kinds of people on this planet. 
Irish and others. 

Which are you?


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## Wirenuting

splatz said:


> There were still a few milk men that used horse drawn carts here into the late 1960's. Just about every house had a small square galvanized cooler on the porch where the milk man delivered the milk and you set out the empty glass bottles.
> 
> There was one dairy here that still sold milk and cream in those quart and half gallon glass bottles until maybe ten years ago. The deposit on the bottles was about as much as the milk. You could only buy it at the dairy's store and a few grocery stores close by. What a difference! It tasted a lot better than what you get at the grocery store. They still have great ice cream but no longer sell milk and cream.


We have a company here that delivers bottled milk and ice cream. 
Their chocolate milk and egg nog is great. 
The bottles are worth $1.50 on a return.


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## CoolWill

Wirenuting said:


> Only two kinds of people on this planet.
> Irish and others.
> 
> Which are you?


Just enough Irish to not like the rest of them.


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## Signal1

CoolWill said:


> Just enough Irish to not like the rest of them.


You should come to Boston.


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## CoolWill

Signal1 said:


> You should come to Boston.


I've been. I had a fine time but didn't find any reason to go back. Lots of reasons to leave, but none for going back. Odd.


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## MTW

CoolWill said:


> I've been. I had a fine time but didn't find any reason to go back. Lots of reasons to leave, but none for going back. Odd.



Not odd at all, when you enter northern Virginia you've left the USA and entered into Soviet USA. That continues all the way past Boston and up to the border with Communist Canada.


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## Signal1

CoolWill said:


> I've been. I had a fine time but didn't find any reason to go back. Lots of reasons to leave, but none for going back. Odd.


Ahh you must have met a Black Irish girl


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## 460 Delta

MTW said:


> Not odd at all, when you enter northern Virginia you've left the USA and entered into Soviet USA. That continues all the way past Boston and up to the border with Communist Canada.


All the more reason to move to the land of sunshine and lollipops, southern Ohio .


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## splatz

Boston is like Scranton with clams.


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## electricguy

VELOCI3 said:


> Back in the days of star bits, hand drills, and soldered splices with friction tape
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



most of the time i managed to get a regular drill chuck to the a brace and bit bit :biggrin:


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## electricguy

277boy said:


> Was thinking the other day, how did they pull large wire/cable before portable tuggers and synthetic rope? I can't imagine it was easy to pull cloth or rubber cover wire into pipe with a manilla rope. Or did they use wire rope? And was it just get 20 guys pulling on the line, use a horse? Not that this matters for any practical purpose, just a thing I was contemplating.
> 
> And I geuss in the beginning seems most wiring was open air on insulators so maybe this wasn't even an issue..


Stationary steam donkey engine


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## CTshockhazard

*Simple*

When men were men, sh1t got done. 



Noone pu55yfooted around.


Noone looked for an easy way out.


Noone was too busy texting.


Etc., ad nauseum.


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## Wirenuting

CoolWill said:


> Just enough Irish to not like the rest of them.


I hate visiting relatives, they always make corned beef and cabbage.
I hate that stuff.


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## CoolWill

Wirenuting said:


> I hate visiting relatives, they always make corned beef and cabbage.
> I hate that stuff.


Does cabbage grow on Ceti Alpha V, or do your relatives live on Earth?


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## gpop

Wirenuting said:


> I hate visiting relatives, they always make corned beef and cabbage.
> I hate that stuff.


I like that stuff.

A little Poitín also helps take the edge of dealing with them when there excited


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## joe-nwt

gpop said:


> I like that stuff.
> 
> A little *Poitín* also helps take the edge of dealing with them when there excited



Had to google that. Irish moonshine.


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## Wirenuting

CoolWill said:


> Does cabbage grow on Ceti Alpha V, or do your relatives live on Earth?


Yes, it was the only food left after the potato blight.


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## Wirenuting

gpop said:


> I like that stuff.
> 
> A little Poitín also helps take the edge of dealing with them when there excited


My mother was off the boat Irish and we had it all the time. Same with my father's parents. 
Sadly I gave up drinking so the Poiltin doesn't help me..


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## electricguy

Loved corn beef and cabbage and mustard We had a small mixing pot for the colemans


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## gpop

electricguy said:


> Loved corn beef and cabbage and mustard We had a small mixing pot for the colemans


We use to give colemans paste to american military friends at barbecues. They would put it on like american mustard and complain about the size of the tube it came in. (real small)

Funny as hell when they take there first bite.

Also use to get them wasted on cider as they didn't know it was 12% alcohol.


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## gnuuser

as i recall an old Italian electrician told me they used powdered soapstone because it was very slippery!
he used to rub it on the base of an unwary apprentice work boots and laugh when they couldn't get traction when pulling cables


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## davey

electricguy said:


> most of the time i managed to get a regular drill chuck to the a brace and bit bit :biggrin:


Hey, I got rid of my ketts last year. Now what do I do with the kett bits? I even have a new one! I just can't see using selfeeds any more, and as for selfeeds with the Kett flatting . . .


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## davey

joe-nwt said:


> Had to google that. Irish moonshine.


It also looks a lot like the word for a fryup of sardines and anchovies.


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## davey

gnuuser said:


> as i recall an old Italian electrician told me they used powdered soapstone because it was very slippery!
> he used to rub it on the base of an unwary apprentice work boots and laugh when they couldn't get traction when pulling cables


I've heard "my farts don't stink" before, but never seen anyone explain it as the result of being shocked.


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## PokeySmokey

We used Talcum Powder (Baby Powder if Talcum was not available) when I was an apprentice in the 1960s and a good percheron or clydesdale horse Heh heh for the horses. Just a lot of elbow grease not the horses.


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## wiz1997

PokeySmokey said:


> We used Talcum Powder (Baby Powder if Talcum was not available) when I was an apprentice in the 1960s and a good percheron or clydesdale horse Heh heh for the horses. Just a lot of elbow grease not the horses.


Hey... maybe us old electricians can get in on the talcum powder caused cancer band wagon.
We were trying to pull some lead covered wires out of a conduit in the basement of a parking garage built in 1952.
2-lead covered #12's in a 1/2" conduit would not budge.
Old timer got some sticks of talc from the welder, crushed them into a powder, then poured it in the conduit.
Then took an air compressor and blew the stuff further in.
Poured 4 cans of soda down the pipe and stated it will come out tomorrow.
OK.....we'll find something else to do.
Next day we set up a rope and pulley to get a straight pull.
Four of us made ready to pull on the rope.
Put tension on the rope and we all fell on our rears when it broke loose.
150 feet of lead covered wire slipped out without us breaking a sweat.
Wire had a coating of some type of grease on it.
The "secret ingredients" did the trick.
I've got some pieces of that cable in the shed I used when teaching apprentices.
At that time lead conductors were still mentioned in the NEC, but no one had ever seen it.
In case anyone was wondering, why the lead coating?
It's how wire was made waterproof, mostly used in below grade applications.
Conductors were cloth covered then covered in lead.


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## Djea3

wiz1997 said:


> Conductors were cloth covered then covered in lead.


I have run across plenty of bell wire bundles sealed in lead sheath. In FL they used to have nitrogen stations that pressurized those "waterproof" lead covered bundles. It was the Pressurized nitrogen that kept them dry even though they were wrapped, sealed and underground. I guess every month or 3 someone would go refill the tanks to keep pressure.


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## getting old

That lead sheathed wire seems to last forever. Pulled (well dug out) some 12/2 years ago out of an underground run of rusted out 1/2" emt that feed a garage in CT. The wire was fine even though the emt was completely gone for the most part underground. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## tedanderson

Djea3 said:


> I have run across plenty of bell wire bundles sealed in lead sheath. In FL they used to have nitrogen stations that pressurized those "waterproof" lead covered bundles. It was the Pressurized nitrogen that kept them dry even though they were wrapped, sealed and underground. I guess every month or 3 someone would go refill the tanks to keep pressure.


I've often wondered about that. I used to live in a very old town that went through its own version of "economic redevelopment" back in the 1950's or so. And in random parts of the area I would see one of those giant cylinders chained up to a utility pole with the air line going directly into the side of the telephone cable. I didn't know what to make of it and because the cylinder was chained up to the pole I thought it was something temporary until they could come back and finish what they were doing.


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## GrayHair

tedanderson said:


> I've often wondered about that. I used to live in a very old town that went through its own version of "economic redevelopment" back in the 1950's or so. And in random parts of the area I would see one of those giant cylinders chained up to a utility pole with the air line going directly into the side of the telephone cable. I didn't know what to make of it and because the cylinder was chained up to the pole I thought it was something temporary until they could come back and finish what they were doing.


Probably the local telco; saw it many times. Lead sheathed cable was used aerial as well as buried, but squirrels liked to gnaw on the lead letting moisture into the cable. Nitrogen dried the cable, then they applied soapy water from the ground to find the penetrations.
Abandoned cables eventually got a plastic EPA shield until they got time to remove them.


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## SteveBayshore

I worked in telephone switching stations years ago ('70s). There were fancy air compressors, dryers and special manifolds. All of the lead sheathed cables were sealed and fed from the compressed air manifold and monitored in the switching station. If any started loosing air rapidly someone would go out an locate a possible leak. The nitrogen bottles were tapped into the damaged lead covered line in different locations until the exact location of the leak was located and repaired. The individual conductor insulation back then was only paper and couldn't get any moisture into it.


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## Wolfen

CoolWill said:


> Wire pulling machines have always existed.


Yea, when I was a kid the wire pulling machine was named Kenneth ( me)


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## paulengr

If you have say a 4K chain fall other than speed what is the difference between that and a 4K tugger? And if I rig a block I can easily multiply even a little HF 1k rope winch up to 8k-10k. No electrics needed.

Back when the electric winches didn’t exist there was a lot more knowledge about how to use rigging blocks, gun poles, and similar rigging equipment. Sadly the work has gotten to the point where bull rigging is now an “advanced” rigging skill.

On Thursday we needed to change out a 400 HP enclosed VFD. One way we’ve done this is to rig up two pieces of strut and two ropes on each side. Lift with each rope then we could just slide it out and lower to the ground. Installation was the reverse. No electrics involved, just standard rigging technique. Changeout started at 10 AM and we were cleaned up, tested, and packed up by 2:30 and that includes a half hour lunch and breaks because of the 94 degrees heat.

Machine skates, jacks, resting blocks…not much has changed in 100 years except we didn’t have motorized stuff back then and modern cranes are very different.


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