# In Ceiling Speaker Placement



## nick.pei

Where would you place (2) in ceiling speakers to be used for background music. The white area is completely open in a "L" shape with a level ceiling. 









Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.


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## hbiss

I would ask what the dimensions are but if you are limiting the design to only two speakers it's not going to make much difference where you put them. And I hope to God you are not thinking stereo which is never to be done with ceiling speakers. 

-Hal


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## mikeh32

i just so happen to have a very very good book about this from yamaha. 

So, I can give you a super smart detailed answer, or tell you to put 3 in, so the sound is even. 



also, just to help out

what size speakers, how many watt, what kind of amp, what are the dimensions of the room....


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## hbiss

Oh yeah? Well I just happen to have software that, if you plug in the dimensions, ceiling height, listening height and type of speaker it will draw you a layout. Pffft! :jester:

If those areas are around 12x12 or less just put one in the center of the LR, one in the center of the dining and one in the center of the kitchen. Try to keep the distances between then the same. For background you won't need much wattage and you want to supply them with a mono signal (both channels mixed together). The reason is that if you have, say, the living room speaker on one channel and the dining on the other, people sitting in the living room will only hear one channel. That's why stereo is never done with ceiling speakers or any other distributed system because you have to be smack in the center of two speakers on opposite channels and that doesn't happen with people all over a room.

-Hal


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## mikeh32

hbiss said:


> Oh yeah? Well I just happen to have software that, if you plug in the dimensions, ceiling height, listening height and type of speaker it will draw you a layout. Pffft! :jester:
> 
> If those areas are around 12x12 or less just put one in the center of the LR, one in the center of the dining and one in the center of the kitchen. Try to keep the distances between then the same. For background you won't need much wattage and you want to supply them with a mono signal (both channels mixed together). The reason is that if you have, say, the living room speaker on one channel and the dining on the other, people sitting in the living room will only hear one channel. That's why stereo is never done with ceiling speakers or any other distributed system because you have to be smack in the center of two speakers on opposite channels and that doesn't happen with people all over a room.
> 
> -Hal


i only have that for cars. damn....


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## davis9

I use dvc speakers for background(stereo) music, works will at lower/normal volumes for me.

Tom


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## erics37

I'd just put them in the floor. Floor speakers.


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## mbeshr

caculate the area of that shap ( L ) and the divide the resul by 35meter square which the area that one ceiling speaker cover that will give you the requirerd number of speraker


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## HalfWatt

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/technicallibrary.aspx?CatID=3&Run=1

JBL Professional website offers free audio system planning software. The DSD 3.1 program calculates the number of in-ceiling speakers needed to cover a room, based on the dimensional data you enter.


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## HalfWatt

What is the purpose of the two speakers (background or foreground sound)? For background sound, more speakers placed closer together will eliminate dead spots in the coverage area, and increase your ability to hear the sound clearly at lower volume.


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## Black Razor

hbiss said:


> And I hope to God you are not thinking stereo which is never to be done with ceiling speakers.



Dude, what exactly is YOUR expertise in this matter? I happen to be a Low-Voltage system designer, and I have a degree in the subject matter. I'm also a member of both CEDIA and InfoComm. We do it all the time in our industry which is exactly why MY industry isn't exactly fond of your trade trying to do OUR job. A lot/most of you guys just don't understand the science behind our trade. 

This is the same reason why I constantly see homes built in sub-divisions with the homes Data/Telecom infrastructure ruined because some electrician who THOUGHT they knew what they were doing pulled the signal cable along side power cables causing so much crossover the signal attenuates before it can even reach anywhere in the system useful.



hbiss said:


> That's why stereo is never done with ceiling speakers or any other distributed system because you have to be smack in the center of two speakers on opposite channels and that doesn't happen with people all over a room.


Your definition of distributed audio is stunted. DA comes in two flavors constant voltage and low-impedance. What you seem to be familiar with is constant voltage aka 70v paging systems. You can in fact distribute audio in stereo. It's a lot more complex than wiring speakers in parallel, but if it wasn't possible I wouldn't have designed at least half a dozen home theaters for clients who wanted a small home theater in their living room with ALL in ceiling speakers such as the AIM series by Speakercraft.


Moving on from that, the way the user stated the question and given the information, it's not really an answerable question. MANY factors determine how speakers will be installed in a room for stereo, yes, STEREO sound in ceiling. Often you have to work with what the architecture will give you and even then the acoustics of the room can also have an effect such as in bathrooms. The intended listening purpose of the system also has a big effect of the system design, i.e. background music vs entertainment vs critical listening. Answering the question the original poster asked, an experienced professional would have asked for this sort of information.


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## hbiss

> Dude, what exactly is YOUR expertise in this matter? I happen to be a Low-Voltage system designer, and I have a degree in the subject matter. I'm also a member of both CEDIA and InfoComm. We do it all the time in our industry which is exactly why MY industry isn't exactly fond of your trade trying to do OUR job. A lot/most of you guys just don't understand the science behind our trade.


Well I'll tell you dude. I do commercial sound and telecom and I have been doing it probably longer than you have been alive. I stay away from any kind of residential, don't like the lousy equipment or the customers. Even though I was an EC, I will agree with you 1000% about ECs not understanding this kind of work. Over the years I have many posts on nearly all the EC forums on that subject. I started out and went to school for electrical engineering, changed careers to EC then commercial sound and telecom. Now I'm ready to retire.

-Hal


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## HARRY304E

Black Razor said:


> /most of you guys just don't understand the science behind our trade.


Really Dude????:blink::blink::laughing:


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## HARRY304E

Black Razor said:


> Dude, what exactly is YOUR expertise in this matter? I happen to be a Low-Voltage system designer, and I have a degree in the subject matter.


Really Dude???:blink::laughing:

Is that a four year degree?:blink::laughing:


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## HARRY304E

Black Razor said:


> This is the same reason why I constantly see homes built in sub-divisions with the homes Data/Telecom infrastructure ruined because some electrician who THOUGHT they knew what they were doing pulled the signal cable along side power cables causing so much crossover the signal attenuates before it can even reach anywhere in the system useful.


Really Dude?:blink: This is an Electricians board and post #1 by you is telling all the Electricians on this board that they are just,,,Dummy's compared to you..........Really dude??:blink:

Welcome to the forum You'll fit right in,,If you have thick skin....:laughing:


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## HARRY304E

Black Razor said:


> Dude, what exactly is YOUR expertise in this matter? I happen to be a Low-Voltage system designer, and I have a degree in the subject matter. I'm also a member of both CEDIA and InfoComm. We do it all the time in our industry which is exactly why MY industry isn't exactly fond of your trade trying to do OUR job. A lot/most of you guys just don't understand the science behind our trade.
> 
> This is the same reason why I constantly see homes built in sub-divisions with the homes Data/Telecom infrastructure ruined because some electrician who THOUGHT they knew what they were doing pulled the signal cable along side power cables causing so much crossover the signal attenuates before it can even reach anywhere in the system useful.
> 
> 
> 
> Your definition of distributed audio is stunted. DA comes in two flavors constant voltage and low-impedance. What you seem to be familiar with is constant voltage aka 70v paging systems. You can in fact distribute audio in stereo. It's a lot more complex than wiring speakers in parallel, but if it wasn't possible I wouldn't have designed at least half a dozen home theaters for clients who wanted a small home theater in their living room with ALL in ceiling speakers such as the AIM series by Speakercraft.
> 
> 
> Moving on from that, the way the user stated the question and given the information, it's not really an answerable question. MANY factors determine how speakers will be installed in a room for stereo, yes, STEREO sound in ceiling. Often you have to work with what the architecture will give you and even then the acoustics of the room can also have an effect such as in bathrooms. The intended listening purpose of the system also has a big effect of the system design, i.e. background music vs entertainment vs critical listening. Answering the question the original poster asked, an experienced professional would have asked for this sort of information.


Hey Dude I'll bet you drive a car like this dude...:laughing:


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## BBQ

Have another drink Harry. :laughing:


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## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> Have another drink Harry. :laughing:


Hey the guy comes out of the box swinging so I just gave it back..:laughing:


Oh I mean the Dude..:laughing:


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## Black Razor

*reaches around his backside and removes the big stick stuck up there with an audible pop*

Yea, that oughta about do it. LOL. Sorry, guys. Just got a little hot under the collar. 

Oh, and Harry, well played.


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## erics37

Harry. Dude.


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## Black Razor

I'm going to own up to something right out of the box (borrowing your phrase) and admit that it would seem I never realized how much my perspective had been skewed by other industry professionals. Seems it would be time for me to reassess my opinions based upon my own experience.


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## Black Razor

So, sorry for being an ass. I came here to learn. I'm only 30 and haven't been in my trade that long. Seems I let my head swell a little too much.


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## Speedy Petey

Black Razor said:


> So, sorry for being an ass. I came here to learn. I'm only 30 and haven't been in my trade that long. Seems I let my head swell a little too much.


 Thank you. 
And since this was a dead thread a year ago I see no reason to re-hash it any more.


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