# Height of a wall outlet in a commercial building when the floor is concrete.



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Quit listening to that maroon. What do the drawings say? Measurement is above finished floor so you have to make allowance if it’s concrete (like it really matters).


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

All commercial I’ve done it’s been 18 AFF. Switches for ADA are 42-44 AFF


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Well I guess those floor receptacles I installed a few months ago will need to be chiseled up if so.


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## Riiska (Jun 13, 2020)

@ VelcoI3 do you know of any code requirements restricting lower mounting than 18". Ive looked for hours but cant find any. Thanks


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Riiska said:


> @ VelcoI3 do you know of any code requirements restricting lower mounting than 18". Ive looked for hours but cant find any. Thanks



Only in an exterior application subject to rain and snow. Inside you can have outlets so low they’re called floor outlets


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Riiska said:


> @ VelcoI3 do you know of any code requirements restricting lower mounting than 18". Ive looked for hours but cant find any. Thanks


Good on you for owning a code book. Maybe you can lend it to the idiot you work with...

...and say, “Show me the rule”.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Check the spec. sheet. You'll never find it in code book.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

@Riiska please take a few minutes to fill out your profile as per the user signup agreement. 

Thank you.


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## Riiska (Jun 13, 2020)

Thats exactly what I said to him LOL. He still looking for it.


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## Riiska (Jun 13, 2020)

Will do. Thanks


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Boxes are usually 18" AFF, because, that is the top of the second course of 8" block & is on the prints or in the specs.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Riiska said:


> Are there any minimum height requirements on outlets in commercial building wall when the floor is concrete? I work with a guy saying i have to mount the outlet over 15 inches high in a commercial building when the floor is concrete. I cant find anything in the NEC or OSHA.
> Thanks
> Dave


It's very common for people to believe a job's specifications are some kind of code. In a way, they are for that project. 
The problem is when those quasi codes become your reality on other jobs. I have had plenty of 12" receptacle jobs and plenty of 18" jobs. It's always good to find that out before nailing up your first box.
We are on a school job right now and the job superintentant for the GC just came off of a job in another county that has specifications quite a bit different than our county.
Every time I see him, he finds it necessary to bring up the other countys specifications. One good one is that underground conduits are to be rigid and encased in red-dyed concrete. :vs_laugh:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

My code says a laser level on top of a milk crate.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

The ADA says receptacle outlets must be min 15" AFF. But it depends on what kind of facility you're working on.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MikeFL said:


> The ADA says receptacle outlets must be min 15" AFF. But it depends on what kind of facility you're working on.



The building codes may or may not require ADA compliance in all areas of all buildings, but the plans / job specs still might. I think for commercial work it's safest to default to those guidelines unless something else is in the prints / plans. More people are looking for universal design in residential, too, so why not.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Other than ADA there are some requirements in the NEC for commercial garages and classified areas. I think it's 18" AFF for commercial garages.


If there's no specified height, I follow what Bird Dog said. I use block elevations for all boxes. Outlets 16" to bottom, switches 48" to the top, Kitchens and bathrooms 40" to the bottom, and outdoor receptacles 24" to bottom. If it's not in block, I would do kitchens and baths at 42" to the bottom.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I should add that sometimes the A&E shows some screwed up heights on drawings. They will show a fire alarm pullstation at 46" to center and switches at 48" center, or some other mismatched numbers. Never thinking how screwed up that will look. Same with the data drawings. They won't sync with the electrical drawings, and there off two inches. I just stick with how it would work if it was a block job.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

HertzHound said:


> I should add that sometimes the A&E shows some screwed up heights on drawings. They will show a fire alarm pullstation at 46" to center and switches at 48" center, or some other mismatched numbers. Never thinking how screwed up that will look. Same with the data drawings. They won't sync with the electrical drawings, and there off two inches. I just stick with how it would work if it was a block job.


 It can be confusing at first. AFF seems to be center of box. So, 18" AFF is the same as the bottom of the box at 16" sitting on the top of the 2nd block course.
Hand dryer boxes 38" AFF,* in the top* of the 5th course.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

If elevations are not specified on a set of prints it’s a good idea to find out at the beginning of the job if there are requirements by code/engineer/owner etc or else you might have to eat changes after the fact. 


I did a kitchen in an office where the carpenter put the cabinets at the wrong height. My lines for the under cab lights were roughed in prior to the Sheetrock. Wall was painted and then he hung the cabinets 4” higher than the print spec’d. I had to channel the rock to get my cables higher to accommodate his mistake. The GC back charged me for the taper/painter to fix the wall. 

Couldn’t fight it because the GC used their own in house carpenters and that was that. 


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

VELOCI3 said:


> If elevations are not specified on a set of prints it’s a good idea to find out at the beginning of the job if there are requirements by code/engineer/owner etc or else you might have to eat changes after the fact.
> 
> 
> I did a kitchen in an office where the carpenter put the cabinets at the wrong height. My lines for the under cab lights were roughed in prior to the Sheetrock. Wall was painted and then he hung the cabinets 4” higher than the print spec’d. I had to channel the rock to get my cables higher to accommodate his mistake. The GC back charged me for the taper/painter to fix the wall.
> ...


Yeah, it sucks when that happens. He short pays you and what are you going to do? Telling him to kiss your ass might make you feel better but it doesn’t put any more money in the bank.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

VELOCI3 said:


> If elevations are not specified on a set of prints it’s a good idea to find out at the beginning of the job if there are requirements by code/engineer/owner etc or else you might have to eat changes after the fact.
> 
> 
> I did a kitchen in an office where the carpenter put the cabinets at the wrong height. My lines for the under cab lights were roughed in prior to the Sheetrock. Wall was painted and then he hung the cabinets 4” higher than the print spec’d. I had to channel the rock to get my cables higher to accommodate his mistake. The GC back charged me for the taper/painter to fix the wall.
> ...


If you don't want to fight him on the back charge, then invoice him for relocating the wiring to accommodate the deviation in spec for the cabinet height. Make sure the number covers his back charge and then some :thumbup:


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

VELOCI3 said:


> Couldn’t fight it because the GC used their own in house carpenters and that was that.


Why did it matter what carpenters he used if it was on the print and you installed to that spec?


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

CoolWill said:


> Why did it matter what carpenters he used if it was on the print and you installed to that spec?



This was at the end of the job when your looking to get the final payment. At that point it’s at the office level. If the charge came during the job while all parties were in one spot it would be easy to fight. Believe me I was pissed about that.


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

Riiska said:


> Are there any minimum height requirements on outlets in commercial building wall when the floor is concrete? I work with a guy saying i have to mount the outlet over 15 inches high in a commercial building when the floor is concrete. I cant find anything in the NEC or OSHA.
> Thanks
> Dave



Your profile doesn't say where you are so a specific answer for your location is a little hard to do.




Annex J in the in the 2017 code has the ADA requirements. Most commercial buildings have to abide with that federal law. Most inspectors in our area say that the bottom has to be above 15".


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

ralpha494 said:


> Your profile doesn't say where you are so a specific answer for your location is a little hard to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Annex J doesn’t have anything pertaining to device elevation











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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

ralpha494 said:


> Your profile doesn't say where you are so a specific answer for your location is a little hard to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Annex's in the NEC are for reference only unless adopted individually by the jurisdiction.


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

manchestersparky said:


> The Annex's in the NEC are for reference only unless adopted individually by the jurisdiction.







The ADA is a federal law. Please see the very first paragraph after the disclaimer you reference.



And for VELOCI3:


If you look at J.6.1 and figure J.6.1 and J.7.1 and figure J.7.1 you will see that you have to be between 15 and 48 inches for unobstructed reach. You didn't even look at the annex, did you?


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

ralpha494 said:


> The ADA is a federal law. Please see the very first paragraph after the disclaimer you reference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did read it. I see no reference to specific devices and or parts of devices. If this was meant to be definitive the code would’ve been specific. Like previous people said. Refer to ADA standards and International Building Code. Or if you’re Canadian just run Teck


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

ralpha494 said:


> The ADA is a federal law. Please see the very first paragraph after the disclaimer you reference.


I was NOT referencing anything about ADA code. I was clarifying that the ANNEX J is not part of the code unless adopted. As the OP asked about a reference from the NEC or OSHA.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

So what I'm seeing in this thread is if the building is ADA compliant, you can't mount any receptacles under 15", so floor receptacles are prohibited?


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