# Okay or not okay?



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I have learned in California, to call the city, go through the hassle of finding out when you can speak with an inspector and ask this. " what stupid thing do you want me to do", . And they don't even hesitate to say something like this. Recently Anaheim told me I needed to use a bonding bushing on flex in a panel upgrade. He got their before me and failed it. It cost me time to straighten bull**** like this up. I'll give the inspectors some chin music tell him to go get his book and I'll go get mine. That works a lot. The foot been in the mouth before. (costa mesa is a good inspector) My guess your inspector is an "all in one inspector" their the handyman of inspectors. And it is impossible to pass if your not their.....it's pathetic. In their defense 9-10 jobs they inspect are complete disasters. And it's not uncommon for them to pretty much have to walk idiots through electrical jobs one red tag a day until its done. 

Dana Point is a great city to work in. 
http://www.danapoint.org/index.aspx?page=224

scroll down to electrical requirements,
This is 8 by 11 you get when you get the permit. My favorite, the note to use a clamped connector instead of the 5/16 drain hole for the GEC.
I thought that was for the GEC.


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## humanvoltmeter (May 29, 2010)

Oh man...

I wish San Francisco was like that. I bet electricians in Dana Point are just a bunch of nice, unstressed fellows.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Well Up near wear I could catch Mickey Mouse in the rat trap near my garbage can. There is stress. Every little city wants something stupid, something different, you cross your t's and dot your eye's. And they say something that usually draws one of two reactions, you want to punch them, or you want to laugh at them. I started out working in Michigan (where the electrical inspector is usually a master electrician) i never had problems with inspectors, ever because I did good work. CA is ridiculous. DSA inspectors are even worse.

I do covet Dana Point.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Another question to ask your inspector,

Does (insert city) have an amendment to the CEC or the NEC that is documented requiring this?


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## humanvoltmeter (May 29, 2010)

Good idea. I think I'll take you up on your advice there.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

The question is... which inspector are you dealing with?

(i know them in SF pretty well)


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> Another question to ask your inspector,
> 
> Does (insert city) have an amendment to the CEC or the NEC that is documented requiring this?


No joke, he needs to look at the SFEC.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

That's why the call to them is good, some city's have documented amendments. Any wire what so ever has to be in conduit in a garage in cypress. It


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Dana Point was best before they put the breakwall in and killed "Dana Point". Other than that I'm sure its a great place to live and work.:thumbsup:


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## humanvoltmeter (May 29, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> The question is... which inspector are you dealing with?
> 
> (i know them in SF pretty well)



Jim Reed, and we know them all pretty well too. We've been doing work in San Francisco since '89.

He is around 60, wears glasses, kinda chubby white dude. Nice guy but that grounding system he proposed was kind of, well, redundant.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

First off -- What size service do you have? If you have 150 amp or smaller then #6 is okay for the water main. Sorry I am use to 200 amps or larger around here.

Second question is if the GEC is unbroken then it doesn't matter where you begin or end as long as it is continuous. Now it does not have to be continuous everywhere but if you are starting at the ground rod then it will need to be continuous to the water line if the water is a grounding electrode. 250.64(C). The wire to the second rod could be a bonding jumper and does not need to be continuous.

The gas line does not need bonding if there is a branch circuit that connects to an appliance that is gas. 250.122(A)


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> Dana Point was best before they put the breakwall in and killed "Dana Point". Other than that I'm sure its a great place to live and work.:thumbsup:


when did they do that?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

In this day and time, I would expect that the inspection authority would have their requirements posted and download able for printing. They all have a web site.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> In this day and time, I would expect that the inspection authority would have their requirements posted and download able for printing. They all have a web site.


Some city's do some don't. Around me anyway. What thing that is certain, most of the inspectors don't know squat.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> Some city's do some don't. Around me anyway. What thing that is certain, most of the inspectors don't know squat.


Sometimes it seems that way but most of the ones here that I knew were fairly knowledgeable; That may have been because I was not at the time. I would call the code enforcement office and ask whoever picks up the phone for the name of the chief electrical inspector . From that point I'd use e-mail.


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## DEAD SHORT (May 24, 2010)

They might want you to bond before and after the water meter cause they might have rubber. Insulation between the water meter... Just ask.. They should tell you why...


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

DEAD SHORT said:


> They might want you to bond before and after the water meter cause they might have rubber. Insulation between the water meter... Just ask.. They should tell you why...


There is a Di-electric fitting between the meter and the pipes connecting to it that effectively disconnects stray current flow from eating their pipes away. 

This also stops an effective bond unless used on both sides of the meter. That said, the GC around here does not like the line side of the meter bonded so you only have to bond the inside portion.

Back to the OP, IMO the way you set up your grounds, the gas line was setup as the GEC. I say this because you had it in the middle of your GEC . 
The Gas piping should be bonded which IMO should have been at the END of the run were you to use only one run of wire for all grounding. The way you said you did it, you have some of your electrodes at the end of the GEC making the gas pipe part of the GEC. 

I am not saying that you would have passed inspection though. Just saying I see where they seem to be coming from.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

JohnR said:


> There is a Di-electric fitting between the meter and the pipes connecting to it that effectively disconnects stray current flow from eating their pipes away.
> 
> This also stops an effective bond unless used on both sides of the meter. That said, the GC around here does not like the line side of the meter bonded so you only have to bond the inside portion.
> 
> ...


 
Bonding a gas line does not make it a GEC. He is not using his as one.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

Is'nt bonding a gas line something to do with preventing static building up??:001_huh:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Electric Al said:


> Is'nt bonding a gas line something to do with preventing static building up??:001_huh:


 
Bonding a gas line is always required. If the gas line is black iron, it will be considered bonded by the EGC sized by 250.122

If there's CSST in the system, you must bond it with a #6 minimum. It is used to keep the gas piping system, and any metal around it, at the same potential during a lightning strike. 

If the gas pipe elevates to a certain potential, and, say the stove rises to a totally different potential, there can be a spark between the line and the stove. The CSST is so thin that the spark burns a hole in the gas line and the rest is up in smoke


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## Sparkee (Sep 22, 2009)

Every city is SoCal is different. Huntington Beach wants a stainless steel ground rod while other beach cities don't. Some want 2 ground rods and others 1 is fine. It's best to check with the city before you start the work.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Sparkee said:


> Every city is SoCal is different. Huntington Beach wants a stainless steel ground rod while other beach cities don't. Some want 2 ground rods and others 1 is fine. It's best to check with the city before you start the work.


That is true to some degree. If a city requires one ground rod and I know that I cannot get 25 ohms then I will install another rod and cover my butt. 

I assume the stainless steel has something to do with the soil conditions in that area. I know at the beaches here in NC and I think SC they require copper rods and *I think* they may have to be 10' long.


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## humanvoltmeter (May 29, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is true to some degree. If a city requires one ground rod and I know that I cannot get 25 ohms then I will install another rod and cover my butt.
> 
> I assume the stainless steel has something to do with the soil conditions in that area. I know at the beaches here in NC and I think SC they require copper rods and *I think* they may have to be 10' long.



I live in the Sunset district of San Francisco, which is all built over sand dunes (Great, I know. Earthquake capital and I am sitting in a house built on top of a gigantic beach) and we need to have two 8' x 1/2" copper rods separated by at least 6'.

It's kind of scary because you can drive about 3 feet of the rods with your _hands_ before having to use the rotary hammer.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Bonding a gas line does not make it a GEC. He is not using his as one.


I was simply referring to where he had it in the lineup. I understand he is not using it as one.


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## Richard Rowe (May 25, 2009)

Most Inspectors don't like to explain why they told you to do it their way, that goes double when their wrong. I have found this to be most helpful.... do it their way if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I'm just saying....


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

humanvoltmeter said:


> I live in the Sunset district of San Francisco, which is all built over sand dunes (Great, I know. Earthquake capital and I am sitting in a house built on top of a gigantic beach) and we need to have two 8' x 1/2" copper rods separated by at least 6'.
> 
> It's kind of scary because you can drive about 3 feet of the rods with your _hands_ before having to use the rotary hammer.


I drove a couple of ground rods on 46th ave a few months ago. They went in like butter.
:thumbsup:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> They went in like butter.
> :thumbsup:


That must have been pretty messy. :laughing:


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## humanvoltmeter (May 29, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> I drove a couple of ground rods on 46th ave a few months ago. They went in like butter.
> :thumbsup:



Yeah I believe it. I live on 43rd.

Only if _all_ ground rods were that easy


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

humanvoltmeter said:


> Yeah I believe it. I live on 43rd.
> 
> Only if _all_ ground rods were that easy


 


About a month ago,,,I installed (2) 8' rods 5/8",,,,,by hand. Pushed all 8' right down to the ground didn't touch a tool to the rod.


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## humanvoltmeter (May 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> About a month ago,,,I installed (2) 8' rods 5/8",,,,,by hand. Pushed all 8' right down to the ground didn't touch a tool to the rod.


You must of felt like He-Man Master of the Universe.


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