# How much money?



## bctoasters

I'm strongly considering getting my license & going into business for myself. My question to you all is, how much money should I need to have to get started? I know I have to figure in certain overhead, but I'm looking at a range I guess--just to make sure what I'll figure is in the ballpark. I plan on being just a one man shop with a decent used van.
As far as borrowing money, what would some of you recommend from experience? Would you recommend start-up business loan, small business loan, business line-of-credit, etc.? Much appreciated.


----------



## MDShunk

Guys have started up successfully on little more than a shoestring, and guys have failed that are pretty well capitalized. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but it's commonly agreed that being undercapitalized sorely hurts your future prospects. Myself, I think that having available trade credit is at least as important than actual cash. I think that no matter what you have in terms of capital, if you never do a job that has the ability to crush you if you don't get paid, you'll be just fine. That may mean starting out with only smallish jobs for a good long while .


----------



## AFOREMA1

Bc your first post should be an intro so we know who you are, where your experience and such. 

As far as how much it depends I started with my contractors license and truck and $500 in the hole and my first job was installing a gunsmith work shop in a range. It was funded by the owner as I needed so it worked out good and made me a couple grand and some new customers. But realistically you need to have several thousand available to start a broad knowledge of whatever aspect of the electrical field you are going to concentrate on and knowledge of the number of competitors you are going up against in your area.

So where are you?
What are you wanting to do?
What type and how much experience do you have?
And what type licenses do you hold?
Do you already have an appropriate vehicle?


----------



## Island Electric

I am a super small company but growing.

When I first started I was able to incorporate on my own (No Lawyer) I already had a pick up truck, some ladders (4), benders, power tools, computer, printer and 90% of the tools I needed for what I was going to do.
For the basics business cards, magnetic signs, insurance, licensing fees, domain name, invoices, rubber stamps, office supplies and quick books program. I think I spent 1600.00

Since then the van was 10,000 now getting the van lettered $1000. Next up website design.

I would say you need 16,000 to get the ball rolling if you had nothing.
Then you will need money for advertising. 
so between 1600-16000 difference between shoe string and stepping up to the first rung on the ladder.

If you do start something just make sure you get yourself set up on quick books right away. Good luck:thumbsup:

EDIT: Welcome to the forum! This is a great place to learn.


----------



## Magnettica

I planned for 5 years before going on my own. During that time I bought a van and started buying tools I would need for the future but mostly for my side jobs at that time. So when I passed the exam I was really ready to go. I borrowed $3500 from my family to take care of some other stuff like insurance and some other little things. I was unemployed for 7 months when i started up.


----------



## 10492

toast, Along with what you already have, truck, tools, license, "I" would "suggest" 2 yrs of personal finances saved up and in a liquid location.


----------



## Mr Rewire

bctoasters said:


> I'm strongly considering getting my license & going into business for myself. My question to you all is, how much money should I need to have to get started? I know I have to figure in certain overhead, but I'm looking at a range I guess--just to make sure what I'll figure is in the ballpark. I plan on being just a one man shop with a decent used van.
> As far as borrowing money, what would some of you recommend from experience? Would you recommend start-up business loan, small business loan, business line-of-credit, etc.? Much appreciated.


 First and formost you need to make sure you have the ability to keep your personal bills paid. The last thing you want is the stress on meeting the mortgage and no money.

Get an account at the supply house and a lowes and HD card and keep them paid monthly. You need at least three months working capital this amount will vary depending on your business costs.

As for a line of credit banks just are not doing them like in the past a good alternative is a line of credit backed by a CD.


----------



## Current

You should have enough to cover your full personal expenses for 2 years as a minimum before even thinking about putting money into a business.


----------



## Mr Rewire

Current said:


> You should have enough to cover your full personal expenses for 2 years as a minimum before even thinking about putting money into a business.


 That means the wife needs a second job


----------



## MarkyMark

Current said:


> You should have enough to cover your full personal expenses for 2 years as a minimum before even thinking about putting money into a business.


I don't know about that. There's something to be said for fear of homelessness or starvation as a good motivator for building your business. :thumbup:


----------



## AFOREMA1

MarkyMark said:


> I don't know about that. There's something to be said for fear of homelessness or starvation as a good motivator for building your business. :thumbup:


I started after losing my house lived in my truck with my German sheperd for over a year. It's not so bad.


----------



## TxElectrician

Current said:


> You should have enough to cover your full personal expenses for 2 years as a minimum before even thinking about putting money into a business.


 
This is one of the biggest misconceptions there is about going into business.

I doubt I had two weeks covered when I started, but the company that I worked for shut their doors and I didn't want to find myself without a job ever again.

Don't know that it'll work out though, only been at it since 1985.


----------



## Current

TxElectrician said:


> This is one of the biggest misconceptions there is about going into business.


Yes, being prepared is a misconception.  


BTW, I never said it was required to go into business, I said "_as a minimum before even thinking about putting money into a business_".

Anyone in this trade during this type of economy should have 2 years of reserves. If you are going into business for yourself, it's even more important.




> I doubt I had two weeks covered when I started, but the company that I worked for shut their doors and I didn't want to find myself without a job ever again.
> 
> Don't know that it'll work out though, only been at it since 1985.


 This means absolutely nothing. Just because you made it, it doesn't mean that everyone else will. There are 6 billion people on this planet, using *1* person as evidence of anything is not very intelligent.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> Yes, being prepared is a misconception.
> 
> BTW, I never said it was required to go into business, I said "as a minimum before even thinking about putting money into a business".
> 
> Anyone in this trade during this type of economy should have 2 years of reserves. If you are going into business for yourself, it's even more important.
> 
> This means absolutely nothing. Just because you made it, it doesn't mean that everyone else will. There are 6 million people on this planet, using 1 person as evidence of anything is not very intelligent.


Make that 2....


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> Make that 2....


He didn't say 2.


----------



## mdfriday

Current said:


> This means absolutely nothing. Just because you made it, it doesn't mean that everyone else will. There are 6 million people on this planet, using *1* person as evidence of anything is not very intelligent.


I think savings helps, but it is not any kind of guarantee, just as starting with nothing is not a guarantee of failure. Both have been done, and worked, both have been done and failed.

Business is a *formula* that is different for everyone, situation, and times....

Not to be a wise-$$$

There are well over 6 million people on this plant. There are over 6 million people within a 60 mile radius of my house.


----------



## Current

mdfriday said:


> I think savings helps, but it is not any kind of guarantee,


 It's a guarantee that you will have a home to live in and food to eat for at least the length of time you have saved for.



> Not to be a wise-$$$
> 
> There are well over 6 million people on this plant. There are over 6 million people within a 60 mile radius of my house.


----------



## Mr Rewire

I think the point is when you have your personal bills covered either from savings or a working spouse it means you have one less thing to distract you from building your business. Building a business from the ground up will give you plenty to focus on.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> He didn't say 2.


You said 1. I said 2. There was no "he" in that context.


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> You said 1. I said 2. There was no "he" in that context.


Sure there was a "He" in that context, my post was to "him" talking about "him". "He" was the one person.

I'm sorry if my post shows how irresponsible most Americans truly are, no need to get snotty with me.


----------



## TxElectrician

I would doubt that many folks working for wages can accumulate 2 years worth of reserve.

I would also be willing to wager that many succesfull business have been founded by owners who had a lot less.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> Sure there was a "He" in that context, my post was to "him" talking about "him". "He" was the one person.
> 
> I'm sorry if my post shows how irresponsible most Americans truly are, no need to get snotty with me.


You said "using 1 person as evidence." I said "make that 2." 

You 1. Me 2. No he.


----------



## Current

TxElectrician said:


> I would doubt that many folks working for wages can accumulate 2 years worth of reserve.


 They CAN, but they choose not to. There are so many other luxuries to spend their money on. Thank you for showing one of the biggest problems with people today, they'll spend spend spend and then cry cry cry when they loose their job and default on their mortgage on their oversized house the very next month.

The last person who I had this discussion with in real life said how it's impossible to save that much money, yet they drove a new $35K F-250 and live in a $800K house in West Caldwell. Sure, they don't have the ability to save any money after paying the bills, but that is their fault for overextending themselves.


> I would also be willing to wager that many succesfull business have been founded by owners who had a lot less.


You are absolutely correct, but does that make it right? Wouldn't it be -better- to have savings to cover your expenses so you're not sitting around without the phone ringing wondering how you're going to feed your kids tomorrow night?


----------



## Shockdoc

Current said:


> It's a guarantee that you will have a home to live in and food to eat for at least the length of time you have saved for.
> 
> 
> View attachment 8220


Is that Casey, I got something she should have in place of that cigar.


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> You said "using 1 person as evidence." I said "make that 2."
> 
> You 1. Me 2. No he.


*HE* was using 1 person as evidence, HIMSELF- *NOT* "ME". Further, *HE* still is only using *1* person as evidence unless you can get him to change his post to say both *HE* and YOU.

It's still *1*.


----------



## Current

Shockdoc said:


> Is that Casey, I got something she should have in place of that cigar.


Don't we all :whistling2:


----------



## hardworkingstiff

In 1996 I started my own business (a one-man show) with 20K in the bank. I spent almost all of it before the cash flowed enough for my bank account to grow. Most of it was in financing my customers. I did a lot of commercial type work in which the pay schedule was 30-45 days.


----------



## Shockdoc

Current said:


> Don't we all :whistling2:


There are some here that would rather suck on something other than a cigar:whistling2:


----------



## MarkyMark

Most people who would feel the need to save up two years of expenses before going into business, probably don't have the type of risk taking mentality it takes to succeed in business.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> HE was using 1 person as evidence, HIMSELF- NOT "ME". Further, HE still is only using 1 person as evidence unless you can get him to change his post to say both HE and YOU.
> 
> It's still 1.


Nope. Me too. I bootstrapped from 0. Been in business 2 1/2 years stayed in the black the whole time did and still am generating way more savings revenue than I ever did working for someone else. 

Anybody can get fired from a day job too. Just because it isn't your way doesn't mean it's the highway.... But if I had your comprehension skill set and arrogance I would probably approach business with extra caution too.


----------



## Current

MarkyMark said:


> Most people who would feel the need to save up two years of expenses before going into business, probably don't have the type of risk taking mentality it takes to succeed in business.


Aren't you hardcore.


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> Nope. Me too.


He never mentioned you, he is only using 1 person for his evidence.


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> Just because it isn't your way doesn't mean it's the highway....


 But it's the *right* way. No one EVER said, "I have way too much money in savings!" or "I shouldn't have saved up for an emergency" or "I'm not glad that I can eat today because I saved up reserves".


> But if I had your comprehension skill set


 Is there something that you think I do not comprehend? I doubt it, I think this is just a childish insult because you have no other way to argue your invalid point.


> and arrogance


 What arrogance? That I think people should save money before going out on a huge gamble? It seems like YOU are the arrogant one saying how great you are that you succeeded without having a safety net. Get over yourself already.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> But it's the right way. No one EVER said, "I have way too much money in savings!" or "I shouldn't have saved up for an emergency" or "I'm not glad that I can eat today because I saved up reserves". Is there something that you think I do not comprehend? I doubt it, I think this is just a childish insult because you have no other way to argue your invalid point. What arrogance? That I think people should save money before going out on a huge gamble? It seems like YOU are the arrogant one saying how great you are that you succeeded without having a safety net. Get over yourself already.


Just because it's a good way doesn't mean other ways aren't "right" as well. 

The fact that I succeeded without a safety net is nothing more than a fact. It says nothing about my character or about me in particular....and it most certainly carried no implication of "greatness" as you asserted. Only that it can be done. 

My comment with regard to your comprehension skill set was also a statement of fact. No insult implied. It simply needs work. I'm sorry if that offends you. It is what it is.


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> Just because it's a good way doesn't mean other ways aren't "right" as well.


 I disagree. There is always a better way.

I'm sure most people here didn't get a degree before deciding to run a business. Did they make a successful business? Sure, but is their way the best way? Nope. Unless you can show me fortune 500 companies who hire working electrician as their CEO's...?

In the end, it's best to have reserves so you can shelter and feed your family. There is no way to deny that.




> My comment with regard to your comprehension skill set was also a statement of fact. No insult implied. It simply needs work. I'm sorry if that offends you. It is what it is.


Apparently YOUR comprehension skills are lacking. I clearly asked you to point out whatever it is that you think I didn't comprehend, but you _conveniently_ forgot to do that. So either point it out or admit that you brought this down to a childish "I'm better than you" debate because you don't like what I am saying.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> I disagree. There is always a better way.
> 
> I'm sure most people here didn't get a degree before deciding to run a business. Did they make a successful business? Sure, but is their way the best way? Nope. Unless you can show me fortune 500 companies who hire working electrician as their CEO's...?
> 
> In the end, it's best to have reserves so you can shelter and feed your family. There is no way to deny that.
> 
> Apparently YOUR comprehension skills are lacking. I clearly asked you to point out whatever it is that you think I didn't comprehend, but you conveniently forgot to do that. So either point it out or admit that you brought this down to a childish "I'm better than you" debate because you don't like what I am saying.


I already pointed that out. Twice actually. You said "1 example." I threw my hat into the ring as a second. That part of it had nothing to do with what he said. Only what you said. If you take a moment to go back you'll find example number 3 and possibly 4 or 5. 

Nobody's saying that your way isn't a good way, or even the best way. We're simply implying that there are alternatives. The "good way" or even the "best way" doesn't necessarily make it the "right way." To say that something is "the right way" is to imply that all other ways are wrong. That just isn't so because you say so. That is why I implied that you were arrogant. Ok, maybe you aren't arrogant in general, but the statement you made was.


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> I already pointed that out. Twice actually. You said "1 example." I threw my hat into the ring as a second. That part of it had nothing to do with what he said. Only what you said. If you take a moment to go back you'll find example number 3 and possibly 4 or 5.


 No, he only used 1 person in his example. Unless you have the power to change his post, he is still only using 1 person. I don't see why you would even argue this. 


> Nobody's saying that your way isn't a good way, or even the best way. We're simply implying that there are alternatives.


 If that was the truth, then I would have never argued with you.



> The "good way" or even the "best way" doesn't necessarily make it the "right way." To say that something is "the right way" is to imply that all other ways are wrong. That just isn't so because you say so. That is why I implied that you were arrogant. Ok, maybe you aren't arrogant in general, but the statement you made was.


I'm probably the most handsome man you've ever spoken to.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> No, he only used 1 person in his example. Unless you have the power to change his post, he is still only using 1 person. to.


Yes, the statement upon which you said and I quote he was "not very intelligent" was made by " him" talking about " himself." 

You were using "his" example " as "one example." I merely gave you a second example. There are more examples lingering. The only relationship they have to what " he" said is that they are further examples with which you may or may not peruse. We're free to put them out there regardless of what he said..... Which was "since 1985." That's over a quarter of a century. If only I could lack such intelligence....

Handsome!


----------



## Current

kennydmeek said:


> Handsome!


Thank you.


----------



## kennydmeek

Current said:


> Thank you.


You're welcome!!


----------



## LK1

Current said:


> I disagree. There is always a better way.
> 
> I'm sure most people here didn't get a degree before deciding to run a business. Did they make a successful business? Sure, but is their way the best way? Nope. Unless you can show me fortune 500 companies who hire working electrician as their CEO's...?
> 
> In the end, it's best to have reserves so you can shelter and feed your family. There is no way to deny that.
> 
> Apparently YOUR comprehension skills are lacking. I clearly asked you to point out whatever it is that you think I didn't comprehend, but you conveniently forgot to do that. So either point it out or admit that you brought this down to a childish "I'm better than you" debate because you don't like what I am saying.


I had a good look into failed contractors over the years, when things went really bad, some of them, would ask me for help getting back on track. Many of them had a poor start, and believed in the fairy tale I made it from nothing stories, there is always a few that made it thru all odds, but the larger number of entries have a tough time operating with success, and they may last for years just getting by, not building any wealth or assets, which would indicate they were making the business work for them, not them working for the business.
Some prefer to hang on to a dream, and deny any real facts of what a business should be


----------



## nitro71

My view is if you already don't have contacts and people wanting your services you will have a very hard go of it. The social contacts and who you know are more important than any other aspect of the business.


----------



## kennydmeek

nitro71 said:


> My view is if you already don't have contacts and people wanting your services you will have a very hard go of it. The social contacts and who you know are more important than any other aspect of the business.


Very true...but if you have it in you building said contact base can be very fun and rewarding...especially in a business like ours that people actually need. There are many many networking opportunities(realtors, chamber of commerce, networking groups) that tend to go largely untapped by trades like ours. Definitely have to stretch your comfort zone... But you'll grow personally, make new friends...and referral based business building grows exponentially. The more you grow...the more you grow even more...if that makes sense.


----------



## mdfriday

Current said:


> It's a guarantee that you will have a home to live in and food to eat for at least the length of time you have saved for.
> 
> 
> View attachment 8220




Huh?

Nope, don't care...


----------



## Current

mdfriday said:


> Huh?


 It's really not that hard to understand.


> Nope, don't care...


Then you shouldn't have gotten involved in this conversation in the first place, it's very clear that it's above your head.


----------



## mdfriday

Current said:


> It's really not that hard to understand.
> 
> Then you shouldn't have gotten involved in this conversation in the first place, it's very clear that it's above your head.


I do not understand the "woman" puffing a cigar picture....

I understand business and personal finance quite well. People skills too. You way want to work on those. It is not a good idea to throw insults around when you don't know the people, or the context.

Keep preaching'


----------



## Current

mdfriday said:


> I do not understand the "woman" puffing a cigar picture....
> 
> I understand business and personal finance quite well. People skills too. You way want to work on those. It is not a good idea to throw insults around when you don't know the people, or the context.
> 
> Keep preaching'


Blow me.


----------



## Mr Rewire

It never hurts to have a little cash to fall back on if things get lean.


----------

