# What is the point of these screwdrivers???



## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

I use a flat head for putting plates on.


----------



## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

Wall plate screws and probing inside a wall for framing members.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

yes.. installing plate screws is very labor intensive. Those 6/32 x 1/4 inch are a real back breaker and need a special tool :blink:


----------



## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> yes.. installing plate screws is very labor intensive. Those 6/32 x 1/4 inch are a real back breaker and need a special tool :blink:


Don't knock it till you try it. It does speed up plate installation.


----------



## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> yes.. installing plate screws is very labor intensive. Those 6/32 x 1/4 inch are a real back breaker and need a special tool :blink:


So, save your six bucks and don't buy one. I like mine.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Kevin J said:


> Don't knock it till you try it. It does speed up plate installation.


Which is the basic selling point to practically every new tool developed, not to mention most of the product we encounter. It's a damned race to the bottom.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Kevin J said:


> Don't knock it till you try it. It does speed up plate installation.


+1 !!


----------



## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

they are great for removal and installation of wall plates.
They really come inhandy when you are working on a slum with bad bugs


----------



## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

its a speed driver. its awesome. i use them a lot for server screws on racks


----------



## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

besides putting in devices and plates,,if you were gonna add a 6 in can in a ceiling simply poke it through the sheet rock where the center of the can would be and turn it around placing the handle horizontal,,if it clears then so will a 6 in remodel can..its also great when looking for covered up plugs


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

mikeh32 said:


> its a speed driver. its awesome. i use them a lot for server screws on racks


 
Any screw that needs several turns to be run in like 6-32 device screws that you don't have to apply much torque on, they are time savers and the battery never gets low.


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Which is the basic selling point to practically every new tool developed, not to mention most of the product we encounter. It's a damned race to the bottom.


yep, much better to pay a guy $80/hr total package to spend longer installing the screw, then go out on disability because of carpal tunnel and an injured wrist...

much better plan...


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

oldman said:


> yep, much better to pay a guy $80/hr total package to spend longer installing the screw, then go out on disability because of carpal tunnel and an injured wrist...
> 
> much better plan...


Are union workers banned from using cordless screwdrivers to install switches and outlets?? :blink:


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

oldman said:


> yep, much better to pay a guy $80/hr total package to spend longer installing the screw, then go out on disability because of carpal tunnel and an injured wrist...
> 
> much better plan...


Well aren't you a ray of sunshine this morning?


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Well aren't you a ray of sunshine this morning?


 
Just like any other time of the day. Heard he went to a brothel out in Vegas and right before he paid he was asking to see the manager for a refund, said it wasn't a professional job so he wanted to pay the amature hourly rate.


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just like any other time of the day. Heard he went to a brothel out in Vegas and right before he paid he was asking to see the manager for a refund, said it wasn't a professional job so he wanted to pay the amature hourly rate.


swear to god...she gave the money back:laughing:


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

elecapp79 said:


> I see a lot of people with these screwdrivers in their tool bags. Especially in the tool bag photos thread. Where do you use them and for what? Is it something you really need in your toolbag??? Just wondering
> 
> Thanks


The “point” of the screwdriver is the narrow end and the handle is the fat end. I hope this clears it up for you.:jester:


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Are union workers banned from using cordless screwdrivers to install switches and outlets?? :blink:


Any workers for that matter? I have a screwdriver with planetary gears that weighs a little less than my small cordless driver. Let the battery do the work far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Richard Rowe (May 25, 2009)

I had some but I use a cordless driver now.... also use the cordless for nutdrivers too. I have some speed drivers 1/2" too but never use them anymore. I guess it is a cordless world or will soon be. There's nothing wrong with this type screwdriver.... my dad always used a Yankee to drive screws.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> yes.. installing plate screws is very labor intensive. Those 6/32 x 1/4 inch are a real back breaker and need a special tool :blink:


It's just plain dumb to use a regular flat blade screwdriver to put plates on. At least use one of those piece of chit "yankees". But these "whirlybirds" or "offset screwdrivers are the best. I keep one in my toolbelt. And I use the phillips one as well.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Minuteman said:


> So, save your six bucks and don't buy one. I like mine.


I agree with you on this one!


----------



## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Are union workers banned from using cordless screwdrivers to install switches and outlets?? :blink:





76nemo said:


> Any workers for that matter? I have a screwdriver with planetary gears that weighs a little less than my small cordless driver. Let the battery do the work far as I'm concerned.


Plates generally have flat head screws, which can be a pain in the butt to try to run in with a cordless drill. Plus, with a drill, it's hard to tell when the screw is getting tight. Good way to crack plates. With an offset, you can feel when the screw is tight enough. I don't use them to put wood screws in or run lags, but as MechDVR said, if it doesn't require a lot of torque, then I use them.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

im able to twist the screwdriver shaft between my thumb and finger to make it turn faster so i dont have to buy one of those stupid looking screwdrivers:thumbsup:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> im able to twist the screwdriver shaft between my thumb and finger to make it turn faster so i dont have to buy one of those stupid looking screwdrivers:thumbsup:


And I suppose you use a cordless drill for the device screws?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

steelersman said:


> GD you're an F ing moron if you use a regular flat blade screwdriver to put plates on. At least use one of those piece of chit "yankees". But these "whirlybirds" or "offset screwdrivers are the best. I keep one in my toolbelt. And I use the phillips one as well.


 
 Yep.. guess I'm a Fing moron because I never needed to buy a bent screwdriver. 

I use my fingertips on the square shaft of a Craftsman screwdriver and that is fast enough, I thought till I read the posts :blink:

*BUT*.. since you and other members give it such high marks, I am going to buy one and check it out. 

I am on this forum to learn new ideas from other electricians :thumbsup:


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> And I suppose you use a cordless drill for the device screws?


 nope and i dont let anybody use a cordless drill for those screws. 

every time somebody uses a drill to trim out a house the receptacles are set to far back or they keep breaking them. i got one helper that uses an impact gun to tighten up device screws. i never use drills to trim out just a screwdriver. my wrists dont hurt at the end of the day either :thumbup:


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> GD you're an F ing moron if you use a regular flat blade screwdriver to put plates on. At least use one of those piece of chit "yankees". But these "whirlybirds" or "offset screwdrivers are the best. I keep one in my toolbelt. And I use the phillips one as well.


 i must be an fing moron too...take my license away before i use a straight blade screwdriver at your house. 

im not girly enough to use a whirly bird screwdriver i guess :laughing:

i see no good use to those screwdrivers. just another tool to spend money on. if somebody is worried about 1 second vs 1.5 seconds using a regular screwdriver then they must not of bid the job right or something :laughing:

if somebody gave me one of those screwdrivers i would give it back and tell them never to speak to me again until they man up and buy a real screwdriver:laughing:


----------



## Richard Rowe (May 25, 2009)

I use a Bosch PS10(I think) for most driving not real fast so you can take care of your screws. I have a set of nutdrivers I use with it but I will have to say my dad can do as well or maybe just a bit better with his 40 year old Yankee. I don't do very much work with small device screws so I can really say about that.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

im going to put a bit in my magnum drill and use that to put devices in. maybe ill get it done a half second faster than the fancy screwdriver


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Are union workers banned from using cordless screwdrivers to install switches and outlets?? :blink:


Nope.
Some EC's have one for each man on the job.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> im going to put a bit in my magnum drill and use that to put devices in. maybe ill get it done a half second faster than the fancy screwdriver


If you use a regular screwdriver for screwing in the devices then you are wasting a lot of time. A lot more than a half second per screw.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> If you use a regular screwdriver for screwing in the devices then you are wasting a lot of time. A lot more than a half second per screw.


 
did you ever break a plate using one of those fancy screwdrivers? i never broken a plate using a regular one. im not worried about how much time you save installing plates. if a job gets bid so tight that using a regular screwdriver will cause lost money then something isnt right. use what you want but you will never see me using one of those stupid screwdrivers.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> did you ever break a plate using one of those fancy screwdrivers?




Either way....I don't care..P&S has an "indestructible" plate :thumbsup:

I'll stick with my cordless and 10-in-1 :thumbup:


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Celtic said:


> Either way....I don't care..P&S has an "indestructible" plate :thumbsup:
> 
> I'll stick with my cordless and 10-in-1 :thumbup:


 ill stick with my straight blade cabinet screwdriver and #2 philips. my boss doesnt buy those rubber plates he buys the cheap leviton plates. surprised we dont have plates from china yet


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> did you ever break a plate using one of those fancy screwdrivers? i never broken a plate using a regular one. im not worried about how much time you save installing plates. if a job gets bid so tight that using a regular screwdriver will cause lost money then something isnt right. use what you want but you will never see me using one of those stupid screwdrivers.


No it's hard to break the nice metal maxi plates. And earlier you said you use a flatblade for screwing in the device. That is where you will take twice as long and that's probably being considerate.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> No it's hard to break the nice metal maxi plates. And earlier you said you use a flatblade for screwing in the device. That is where you will take twice as long and that's probably being considerate.


 im not worried about it that much.

i hope the new england patriots beat the steelers this year:thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> yes.. installing plate screws is very labor intensive. Those 6/32 x 1/4 inch are a real back breaker and need a special tool :blink:


Profit is measured in seconds.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> im not worried about it that much.
> 
> i hope the new england patriots beat the steelers this year:thumbsup:


me too. I'm kinda tired of the steelers winning. They need a break from it.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Profit is measured in seconds.


 
I spent an hour today trying to sell a service change..( he will let me know after talking to his wife) that was 3600 seconds.. how many plate screws it that?? 

I think it is really dumb to think your losing money putting plate screws on with a regular screwdriver. :laughing:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I think it is really dumb to think your losing money putting plate screws on with a regular screwdriver. :laughing:


 
If you're doing tract homes then it would only make sense to want to save as much time as possible wouldn't it? I mean it's not like you're making a killing on all the extras from a custom home that's not there if they are just tract homes. Or for me when I do a side job, I'm working for myself and I don't want to be there any longer than I have to so that's how I do it. I don't have to lug around a drill just to take out an outlet or plate or put them back in.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> nope and i dont let anybody use a cordless drill for those screws.
> 
> every time somebody uses a drill to trim out a house the receptacles are set to far back or they keep breaking them. i got one helper that uses an impact gun to tighten up device screws. i never use drills to trim out just a screwdriver. my wrists dont hurt at the end of the day either :thumbup:


 
This is a _training_ issue, not a _drill_ issue. *ANY* tool can be used improperly and cost money instead of saving it.



Black4Truck said:


> I spent an hour today trying to sell a service change..( he will let me know after talking to his wife) that was 3600 seconds.. how many plate screws it that?? .......


Then you spent 3,000 seconds too many.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> I spent an hour today trying to sell a service change..( he will let me know after talking to his wife) that was 3600 seconds.. how many plate screws it that??
> 
> I think it is really dumb to think your losing money putting plate screws on with a regular screwdriver. :laughing:


 its also faster to do everything live. why waste time searching for the breaker? there goes my profit down the tubes!


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> its also faster to do everything live. why waste time searching for the breaker? there goes my profit down the tubes!


 
no need to search for the breaker when you can just short out the circuit. :thumbsup:


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> no need to search for the breaker when you can just short out the circuit. :thumbsup:


 try that on 480 volts you wont have any pliers left. or skin for that matter. i used to work with a guy that would do that and think hes wicked cool. i done it on an FPE breaker a few years ago and it scared me to death. t was wicked loud and shot molten copper everywhere. 

i know we are all just kidding around but on a serious note its never a good idea to short wires out to find the breaker. might cause more problems than needed


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Are union workers banned from using cordless screwdrivers to install switches and outlets?? :blink:


 I have been using mine for years, both flat and philips for many things. Its a love it or leave it kind of thing. When Im trimming out a house all I need is a pair of strippers, and both of my whirly drivers.
And when im probing in a ceiling or wall cavity i use the flathead whirly driver to probe. The offset on it makes it a good tool for this.
I think its funny that some of you guys are getting so philisophical about it. All of a sudden the sky is falling because some dude likes to use it......:laughing:


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

steelersman said:


> If you're doing tract homes then it would only make sense to want to save as much time as possible wouldn't it? I mean it's not like you're making a killing on all the extras from a custom home that's not there if they are just tract homes. Or for me when I do a side job, I'm working for myself and I don't want to be there any longer than I have to so that's how I do it. I don't have to lug around a drill just to take out an outlet or plate or put them back in.


 Dude its pointless to argue with some of these cats......


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I have been using mine for years, both flat and philips for many things. Its a love it or leave it kind of thing. When Im trimming out a house all I need is a pair of strippers, and both of my whirly drivers.
> And when im probing in a ceiling or wall cavity i use the flathead whirly driver to probe. The offset on it makes it a good tool for this.
> I think its funny that some of you guys are getting so philisophical about it. All of a sudden the sky is falling because some dude likes to use it......:laughing:


 
I think some are just angry that they can't get the hang of it. I've seen many people try to use one and they end up poking a hole in the drywall when the blade slips off the screw from pushing too hard and not getting the action right. :thumbup:

Let's face it. Some are just more coordinated than others.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

i dont care if a guy uses his teeth to screw in a screw. just personal feelings posted here. i dont like using xtreme tools or "in 1" tools i like individual tools or new fancy tools that save pennies


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> I think some are just angry that they can't get the hang of it. I've seen many people try to use one and they end up poking a hole in the drywall when the blade slips off the screw from pushing too hard and not getting the action right. :thumbup:
> 
> Let's face it. Some are just more coordinated than others.


 there needs to be an electrician olympics

one event will be the whirlybird screwdriver contest, another event can see who can change the most 277 volt switches in the dark live without getting killed


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> dont like using xtreme tools or "in 1" tools i like individual tools or new fancy tools that save pennies


This isn't some kind of "fancy" "new" or "extreme" tool. It's been out for at least 15 years since I've been in the trade, probably alot longer. And it isn't an "in 1" tool. It doesn't combine 2 or more tools. It's just plain old simple common sense. But let's face it, some of us just haven't evolved enough to utilize all of their dexterity.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> This is a _training_ issue, not a _drill_ issue. *ANY* tool can be used improperly and cost money instead of saving it.


It's a tool issue...
If the tools you hire can't use the tools you bought...
One of them two tools has to go.

:laughing:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Dude its pointless to argue with some of these cats......


yep, they just get angry when they can't get it to work.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

steelersman said:


> ... let's face it, some of us just haven't evolved enough to utilize all of their dexterity.



Who you calling a "knuckle-dragger"?




:laughing:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Another time saver for me is when I'm twisting wires together I use my ***** instead of linesman's. It's way faster. I only use linesman's for twisting 3 or more #12's or 5 or more #14's. And I use them as a hammer in tight places.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Celtic said:


> Who you calling a "knuckle-dragger"?:laughing:


 
nobody in particular. :whistling2:


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

steelersman said:


> nobody in particular. :whistling2:



LOL :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Is this actually an argument about using screwdrivers? :blink: :blink:

Is it really that hard to utilize tools properly? Apparently it is.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

MAN some of you guys just loooove to argue about every freaking thing. This one just takes the cake. I have personally vowed to not insult or be rude to anyone anymore because this > :wallbash: dosent solve anything. Why cant we all just get along.....?:thumbup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Celtic said:


> It's a tool issue...
> If the tools you hire can't use the tools you bought...
> One of them two tools has to go.
> 
> :laughing:


Then this means I have to leave?


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Then this means I have to leave?


Yes.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Then you spent 3,000 seconds too many.


Since when is the a time limit on doing an estimate.. I must of missed the class :laughing:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Is this actually an argument about using screwdrivers? :blink: :blink:
> 
> Is it really that hard to utilize tools properly? Apparently it is.


It's not an argument about how to use them properly, but rather which tool works the fastest or best I would say.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> MAN some of you guys just loooove to argue about every freaking thing. This one just takes the cake. I have personally vowed to not insult or be rude to anyone anymore because this > :wallbash: dosent solve anything. Why cant we all just get along.....?:thumbup:


Yep. YOu're right. I'm tired of people arguing with me all the time.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Yep. YOu're right. I'm tired of people arguing with me all the time.


 
 calling someone a Fing moron is not really good way to get your point across :laughing: I thought you were LawnGuy for a minute :blink:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Since when is the a time limit on doing an estimate.. I must of missed the class :laughing:


There really is a 'time limit' to do an estimate. If you spend far too long doing one, you'll never make money. The time you spend on an estimate is labor. The same labor you spend turning screws. The faster you turn screws, the more profitable you are. The faster you can do an estimate, the more profitable you are. Labor is labor, whether you're turning a cover screw or calculating it's cost.

Besides, you said you spend an hour trying to sell a service change, not figuring it up.



Black4Truck said:


> I spent an hour today trying to sell a service change.......


If you can't sell a resi service upgrade inside of 10 minutes, it's time to go do something else a tad bit more profitable.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> calling someone a Fing moron is not really good way to get your point across :laughing: I thought you were LawnGuy for a minute :blink:


You're right. I got carried away with that. Sorry.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

steelersman said:


> You're right. I got carried away with that. Sorry.


 no problem.. :thumbsup:


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Are union workers banned from using cordless screwdrivers to install switches and outlets?? :blink:


Banned? No.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> There really is a 'time limit' to do an estimate. If you spend far too long doing one, you'll never make money. The time you spend on an estimate is labor. The same labor you spend turning screws. The faster you turn screws, the more profitable you are. The faster you can do an estimate, the more profitable you are. Labor is labor, whether you're turning a cover screw or calculating it's cost.
> 
> Besides, you said you spend an hour trying to sell a service change, not figuring it up.
> 
> ...


Doing a service change can net $1000.00 profit for a days work where I am.

Why would I want to rush the estimate?? 

I get 90% of the jobs I bid on, but thanks for your concern I should try something else.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> i must be an fing moron too...take my license away before i use a straight blade screwdriver at your house.
> 
> im not girly enough to use a whirly bird screwdriver i guess :laughing:
> 
> ...


OK For chrissakes it's just a screwdriver already. Shaddupabouddit.


----------



## Richard Rowe (May 25, 2009)

Lots of tools out there that I don't use.. doesn't mean they are not any good... I just use another tool. I buy a lot of tools that I never use, they look so good in the pictures I just have to have them...


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I spent an hour today trying to sell a service change..( he will let me know after talking to his wife) that was 3600 seconds.. how many plate screws it that??
> 
> I think it is really dumb to think your losing money putting plate screws on with a regular screwdriver. :laughing:


Some contractors are always losing money, didn'tcha know? And if you;re not panting and sweating by the end of the day, you're a time and production thief. 

In the grand scheme of things, the offset screwdriver won't get you an extra dime in your paycheck, so you invested in something that supposedly made you more productive, but actually got more money into your boss's pocket and less into yours. And YOU paid for it!


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

The phillips swivel is my most used screwdriver.

Much lighter than a drill and better than a straight phillips.

I don't even have a straight phillips:blink:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Doing a service change can net $1000.00 profit for a days work where I am.
> 
> Why would I want to rush the estimate??
> 
> I get 90% of the jobs I bid on, but thanks for your concern I should try something else.


 
So what happens to that $1k profit if you spend another 6 hours figuring it up?


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Then this means I have to leave?


Somethings got to give :laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So what happens to that $1k profit if you spend another 6 hours figuring it up?


There is never even another 10 minutes.. the price it given and I *never* come down in price. Where does your 6 hours come from?

I will spend all the time needed to sell a job. This has *always* worked in my favor. 

I don't advertise in the phone book or on Craigslist. Either someone saw my truck, the sign in front of my house, or a recommendation from a previous job.

I lose nothing by taking my time :thumbup:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> i hope the new england patriots beat the steelers this year:thumbsup:


Umm....you must not be privy to the schedule. They don't play each other this year. Lucky for you I guess. :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> ........I lose nothing by taking my time :thumbup:


So, how do you bill out 'taking your time'?


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I Just want all you anglers to know that fly fishing is for marys. Real men fish in the ocean....................aaaand go..............


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So, how do you bill out 'taking your time'?


 
I don't.. just another cost of doing business.

Some spend hundreds a month in advertising.. I see no difference between "taking my time" or a Yellow Pages ad.

The goal is to *make money *how ever I can :thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I don't.. just another cost of doing business.
> 
> Some spend hundreds a month in advertising.. I see no difference between "taking my time" or a Yellow Pages ad.
> 
> The goal is to *make money *how ever I can :thumbsup:


 
So taking 6 hours doing a $5k bid is the same as taking 10 minutes for the same job?


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> Umm....you must not be privy to the schedule. They don't play each other this year. Lucky for you I guess. :laughing:


 i dont watch much football


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I Just want all you anglers to know that fly fishing is for marys. Real men fish in the ocean....................aaaand go..............


Freshwater fishing is the only real fishing. It requires the most skill. Saltwater fishing is for guys that can't succeed in lakes, rivers and streams.

But as far as freshwater goes, fly fishing is actually pretty gay I must say.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

steelersman said:


> Freshwater fishing is the only real fishing. It requires the most skill. Saltwater fishing is for guys that can't succeed in lakes, rivers and streams.
> 
> But as far as freshwater goes, fly fishing is actually pretty gay I must say.


 no way the real fish lives in the ocean. It takes real brawn to reel one in from the ocean.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

steelersman said:


> you're gay! Freshwater fishing is the only real fishing. It requires the most skill. Saltwater fishing is for guys that can't succeed in lakes, rivers and streams.
> 
> But as far as freshwater goes, fly fishing is actually pretty gay I must say.


 i caught one of these before


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Thats a nice cod. The other factor about salt water fish is you have to deal with the weather if your on a boat.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So taking 6 hours doing a $5k bid is the same as taking 10 minutes for the same job?


 
 Ken.. all that traveling must of affected your brain.. who spends 6 hours or 10 minutes on a $5k job bid? Makes no sense at all :no:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Thats a nice cod. The other factor about salt water fish is you have to deal with the weather if your on a boat.


Yeah but you still have the weather to deal with in freshwater as well. Freshwater is by far the more difficult to master. Any goon can go out on the ocean or bay or whatever and catch a fish. It's so easy a caveman can do it.


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

:cursing::furious::furious::cursing::furious:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Ken.. all that traveling must of affected your brain.. who spends 6 hours or 10 minutes on a $5k job bid? Makes no sense at all :no:


 
That's what I've been trying to tell you. You say you're willing to take whatever time necessary to bid a job correctly. But it makes no sense spending 6 hours to get a $5k bid down to $5 of actual cost.

A 200-a resi upgrade can be bid in less than 10 minutes. Anyting more is wasting time. And wasted time equates to wasted (or simply lost) money.

Anything that may have gotten missed in a $5k bid is easily made up in the 5 hours and 50 minutes you didn't spend getting down to that $5 of actual cost.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

I caught some crabs once...wasn't in freshwater or saltwater :blink:





:laughing:
j/k


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Celtic said:


> I caught some crabs once...wasn't in freshwater or saltwater :blink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many of them are in a case of crabs?:001_huh:


----------



## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

I honestly gave this thing a real shot and still dont like them. I use a screw gun for switches and outlets and then a small flathead trim screwdriver for plates. Dont really think its that big of a deal.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

drsparky said:


> How many of them are in a case of crabs?:001_huh:


I dunno...I only had "some"...not a "case" :laughing:


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jeez LouEaze, another beer please. Think it's about time this thread dies. If you guys want to carry your offsets, than so be it. You carry a can opener too?:laughing:

No seriously, this thread proves that to each their own. So be it


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

76nemo said:


> Jeez LouEaze, another beer please. Think it's about time this thread dies. If you guys want to carry your offsets, than so be it. You carry a can opener too?:laughing:
> 
> No seriously, this thread proves that to each their own. So be it


No but I cary a bottle opener, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?


----------



## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Saltwater has the big fish!


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

crazyboy said:


> Saltwater has the big fish!


That nice, I don't live near salt water. I fish every day, I walk to one of my favorite spots.


----------



## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

It cracks me up to read the banter about fishing from a bunch of yankees. :whistling2:Bring your 14 weight fly rods and 20# class tackle to Florida. I can put you on big Bass from our lakes, and any saltwater species you want just off of Cocoa. I use 20# class spinning gear for Sailfish and Marlin and Yellowfin Tuna, and the fly rod for Tarpon. The amusing fact is I use heavier tackle for Bass fishing but because of the cover I fish.

But when I get serious I use a 60" freeshafting speargun by Spearfishing Specialities, and 120 cubic ft tanks.:thumbup:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> It cracks me up to read the banter about fishing from a bunch of yankees. :whistling2:Bring your 14 weight fly rods and 20# class tackle to Florida. I can put you on big Bass from our lakes, and any saltwater species you want just off of Cocoa. I use 20# class spinning gear for Sailfish and Marlin and Yellowfin Tuna, and the fly rod for Tarpon. The amusing fact is I use heavier tackle for Bass fishing but because of the cover I fish.
> 
> But when I get serious I use a 60" freeshafting speargun by Spearfishing Specialities, and 120 cubic ft tanks.:thumbup:


yeah you tell them damn yankees greg! Saltwater fishing is gay!


----------



## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

steelersman said:


> yeah you tell them damn yankees greg! Saltwater fishing is gay!


I do it all, fresh and salt. The only species worth while, up north, is the Bluefin tuna.

If you think saltwater fishing is easy, try pulling a bait and switch on a hungry Sailfish.


----------



## zappy (Mar 6, 2009)

When I did resi. piece work, these were mandatory!


----------



## Larry Fine (Oct 24, 2007)

steelersman said:


> But these "whirlybirds" or "offset screwdrivers are the best. I keep one in my toolbelt. And I use the phillips one as well.


Absolutely! PJ hates them, but I love them. After a couple of minutes, you can use them with only one hand.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Larry Fine said:


> Absolutely! PJ hates them, but I love them. After a couple of minutes, you can use them with only one hand.


 
:thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Those screwdrivers are great for buying them and leaving them in your toolbox for almost 10 years. I know someone who did this. :whistling2:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Those screwdrivers are great for buying them and leaving them in your toolbox for almost 10 years. I know someone who did this. :whistling2:


I use them everytime I wear my tool belt.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I use them everytime I wear my tool belt.


I actually forgot I even had one until I was rooting around in my roll-away tool box and found it in there and I thought of this thread. Maybe I'll find a use for it one of these years. :laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I actually forgot I even had one until I was rooting around in my roll-away tool box and found it in there and I thought of this thread. Maybe I'll find a use for it one of these years. :laughing:


I STILL don't get why a bent screwdriver is better than a straight one :blink:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I STILL don't get why a bent screwdriver is better than a straight one :blink:


Apparently you either like them or you don't.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I STILL don't get why a bent screwdriver is better than a straight one :blink:


Have you tried using one?


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

You might beat me stupid, but you'll never beat me with an offset compared to a straight shaft and a two handed twist. To me, it's just one more thing to lug around


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Have you tried using one?


Nope.. but I will get one and try it out. I will shut up now :laughing:


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

76nemo said:


> You might beat me stupid, but you'll never beat me with an offset compared to a straight shaft and a two handed twist. To me, it's just one more thing to lug around


that may be true for a plate screw as it doesn't take much torque to unscrew it, but how about screwing a device into a plastic box? My offset will beat your two wrists everytime. And by the way I would beat you also taking out the plate screws or putting them back in. I'm fast as hell with these offsets son!


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Nope.. but I will get one and try it out. I will shut up now :laughing:


There's a couple tricks to them.

First, when you look at it from the side, you will notice the two ends are not parallel. This is there for a reason. When you put it in your hand, the line of the handle will end up in your wrist. Don't make the mistake of trying to move your whole arm..... just twist from your wrist.

Second, like any screwdriver, you must apply pressure on the screw. They will cam out just like any driver.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> There's a couple tricks to them.
> 
> First, when you look at it from the side, you will notice the two ends are not parallel. This is there for a reason. When you put it in your hand, the line of the handle will end up in your wrist. Don't make the mistake of trying to move your whole arm..... just twist from your wrist.
> 
> Second, like any screwdriver, you must apply pressure on the screw. They will cam out just like any driver.


Thanks Ken.. tips on how to use a tool coming from a tool is a win/win :thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Thanks Ken.. tips on how to use a tool coming from a tool is a win/win :thumbsup:


Also, get the #2 Phillips and the 3/16" straight. I've never used my #1 Phillips (too small) or my 1/4" straight (loo large).


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

thanks....


----------



## Larry Fine (Oct 24, 2007)

76nemo said:


> You might beat me stupid, but you'll never beat me with an offset compared to a straight shaft and a two handed twist.


Oh, yes, I will. I've had speed tests with others who have poo-poo'ed the swivel driver. 

I can drive two device 6-32's faster than anyone else could drive one manually. I can even beat most electric screwdrivers.


----------



## Larry Fine (Oct 24, 2007)

steelersman said:


> that may be true for a plate screw as it doesn't take much torque to unscrew it, but how about screwing a device into a plastic box? My offset will beat your two wrists everytime. And by the way I would beat you also taking out the plate screws or putting them back in. I'm fast as hell with these offsets son!


 :thumbsup: Back at ya!


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Larry Fine said:


> :thumbsup: Back at ya!


Yep, these guys have no clue about this topic. It's truly a shame.


----------

