# Automatic Generator Systems?



## redsox98 (Oct 16, 2009)

I prefer generac but only due to the fact that my supply house is a dealer and they will back it if there is a problem.


----------



## FES (Dec 10, 2009)

I have found generac systems from Home Depot....is it the "same" generac that a supply house would have?


----------



## FES (Dec 10, 2009)

Checked with Home Depot to get a little info & found out that it is cheaper to buy online and when buying online it comes with a pad and delivery is included. 

Anyone used any other systems?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I have used GENERAC (GUARDIAN) for years and never had any problems :thumbsup:


----------



## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

*Generac*

I installed an 8kw Guardian the first of this year. Installation went smooth but there was a problem with the assembly of the generator. In the assembly process (factory) they managed to tighten down the neutral lug on one of the utility sensing wires, shorting it to ground. When powered up it blew a control fuse. I had to open up the generator control panel to find this. Guardian hasn't responded to my email yet...and I doubt they will. I'm hoping this isn't an indication of how they handle warranty claims. The generator is up and running now and other than this snafu it seems to be ready to do it's job. Solid construction, both the generator and the transfer switch. I purchased it from Norwall, included free shipping and tailgate service.


----------



## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

I like Onan myself, the RS12000 or RS15000 are slick little units. The have outstanding customer service as well.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

If you have a choice, spend a little more and get an Onan.:thumbsup:
Guardian is the cheapest stuff on the market for a reason.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Weve used GENERAC commercial grade and always got great customer service over the phone(didnt try email). The 25kw and up are well made and have gave no trouble. Havent used the guardian but the Quiet source is a quality generator


----------



## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

I prefer Generac only because I'm factory trained and find them real easy to install and troubleshoot, resi or commercial.


----------



## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Generac or guardian (same thing) very simple and dependable best stuff goin


----------



## FES (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*generator*



FES said:


> Thanks for the feedback!


Are you going to "SWITCH" the neutral as well as the ungrounded circuit conductors? I think that FES is off-line. Does anyone want to answer that?


----------



## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

If you are going to purchase online, I reccommend Norwall...free tailgate shipping, very fast shipping and great communication provided throughout.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

rnr electric said:


> Generac or guardian (same thing) very simple and dependable best stuff goin


WOW that is the first time I have ever heard that. :laughing:


----------



## sparkall (Feb 11, 2010)

I was thinking of installing one in my home. The problem is that I have 3 AC units so there is no way I am going to buy a generator big enough to handle all 3, which is necessary in the 2008 code, right? A generator with an ATS has to be able to handle the entire house?


----------



## Murphy (Dec 10, 2009)

no the whole house doesn't have to be on the generator


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Buy a transfer switch to match the size of your main breaker.
Buy the generator to carry 125% of the load you want to back up.

You can buy a load shed panel or use shunt trip breakers for the AC units.


----------



## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

Sparkall, you only need to back up the circuits you consider necessary during an outage...an ATS can be wired to take care of those circuits.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Missouri Bound said:


> Sparkall, you only need to back up the circuits you consider necessary during an outage...an ATS can be wired to take care of those circuits.


The only problem with this is that, in a 40 circuit panel,,, homeowners consider all but 2 of them "absolutely necessary."

"Even the circuit for the attic light?"

"Yes, I might want to go up there...."


----------



## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

Lawnguy, my reference was to a transfer switch with a built in breaker panel. Generac has 8, 10, and 12 breaker types that I am aware of. But you are right when using a switch on a 40 circuit panel, Any extended outage and more and more breakers will be turned on and left on....just human nature.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Greg said:


> I prefer Generac only because I'm factory trained and find them real easy to install and troubleshoot, resi or commercial.


Yes well, if one is NOT factory trained, the TS manual is an extra $20

the normal literature does _not_ include this

It would also seem their tech support , at least on the phone, will not forward any information to us _renegade _installers.....

Generac has also assumed an access code, which one either needs to be on hold for (and listen to Bach) for 45 minutes on scene, or spend about that much time on line , forwarding info up to one's dna

just in case OBL really _isn't_ dead, and might want to start your genny up in your back yard i suppose.....

~CS~


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The nexus start up code is a good thing. It gets the warranty registration out of the way. Saves me the aggravation of doing it later when I go to do a warranty repair. If it is bad out of the box, find one of us and we'll get you going. Ask your supply house, they usually have a go to guy for these things.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Yes well, if one is NOT factory trained, the TS manual is an extra $20


Stave .... you are responding to a post more than 3 years old. :jester:


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Oops, me too. Not enough coffee yet. Think the latest Nexus manual is a bit more than $20.


----------



## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

GE generators are ok. Load shedding modules are great (need a neutral, but can be put in line with unit disconnects) PITA issue during recent blizzard on Cape Cod. Dozens of trouble calls from generators shutting down in high winds. Turns out the shroud lets snow in, up to control circuit board, shorting it out... Can't charge customers for this  wrapped generators with tarps, leaving exhaust open, ran great for 3+ days. GE no help with issue. They say they are looking into it, but blame "installation" for problem. Generac I put in at neighbors house, same exposure, same everything, never once went down...


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The board is completely enclosed and the connections pretty well protected. The terminal strip is at least covered.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Stave .... you are responding to a post more than 3 years old. :jester:



yes, had to use search to find it BBQ....

anywho.....

i've got a 14KW Generac that'll run when switched to 'auto', via the auto-off-manual switch under the lid, but won't shut itself down

i've checked all connections, it's only 3 control wires, and 2 wires for the battery warmer. 

I'm wondering if the battery warmer is imposing a little induction?

~CS~


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

What generation of unit? I'll scrounge up the correct book.


----------



## FranklinsApprentice (Apr 15, 2012)

When deciding what generator to sell to customers I used a number of factors. One, Generac is the # 1brand. Why is that? I don't hear commercials on tv or radio. I don't see billboards or magazine ads. I just see that they have 70% of the market. Price is a factor. They are the lowest when compared to Kohler, or Onan. But Kholer heavily advertises and they do offer a 5 year warranty. Take those 2 away and they would cost the same if not lower than Generac. Also there plastic enclosures force me to install them a minimum of 5 feet away for nfpa reasons. Customers don't like there generators in the middle of the yard. And Onan is $3000 more than Generac and I want to be a company that sells to all walks of life, not just to the rich. Generacs business model is clearly based on there dealer network. They do prefer dealers which anyone can become, and they prefer dealers who go through the service training and buy there repair kit. Doing this and buying generators direct from them gives you a price break. Kohler has regional dealers and everybody that is in that region can only buy from them. This forces you to pay sales tax which makes a more expensive generator even more expensive. When ordering direct from Generac you don't pay sales tax unless you're in Wisconsin. I am now a basic dealer and ever since i put an order in for the repair kit, I am getting more attention from the Generac reps which means more avenues to marketing, access to information, and help with any questions I have. And with this repair kit it qualifies me to become a "select" dealer which gives me a discount. The more generators you buy, the better the price. So yes Generac plays nicer if you are in there network. I have a dealer number and as soon as I give it, I get complete access to customer service and tech support every time.

I am a true believer in "you get what you pay for." But when it comes to Generac, I believe the others are just plain more expensive without adding enough value to warrant selling them. Generac is a great product. But remember, they are ran by humans. Not every generator is going to be perfect. There are lemon Chevys, fords, and toyotas. That doesn't warrant them as junk. 

Hence when having my generator business logo designed, I made it black and orange  

If your an electrical contractor and in an area with annual power outages, and not selling and installing generators, you really should be, if you are intimidated like I was, you'll get over it real quick. The first 3 installs were great learning experiences. Now after a dozen or so my apprentice can install them. They supplement the business nicely. In all honesty I am putting goals in place for generators to be 75% or more of my business. They are the only item that I can sell service and maintenance contracts which gets me in front of the customer every year. Can't beat that.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I get the Generacs with the aluminum covers. I also go thru hell importing them to Hawaii, nobody likes to ship them here. It has something to do with TSA if I am not mistaken.....










Bam!


----------



## FranklinsApprentice (Apr 15, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> yes, had to use search to find it BBQ....
> 
> anywho.....
> 
> ...


I know this might be a stupid question but have you checked the voltage sense wires n1 and n2. It sounds like it could be a bad fuse in the transfer switch or a bad wire. Measure both to neutral in the generator and see if you have 120v or 240 when measuring across the both of them.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I still have to put them five feet out. The installs aren't bad though once you have done a couple.


----------



## FranklinsApprentice (Apr 15, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> I get the Generacs with the aluminum covers. I also go thru hell importing them to Hawaii, nobody likes to ship them here. It has something to do with TSA if I am not mistaken.....
> 
> Bam!


Hawaii, huh? Yeah aluminum is a great option. Probably a good selling point. Are you a Generac dealer? I find it hard to believe they have a hard time getting generators to you.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

FranklinsApprentice said:


> Hawaii, huh? Yeah aluminum is a great option. Probably a good selling point. Are you a Generac dealer? I find it hard to believe they have a hard time getting generators to you.



Generac won't ship to Hawaii and Alaska. I got a friend in LA. I ship them to him, he forward ships it to me. Pain in the ass.


----------



## FranklinsApprentice (Apr 15, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Generac won't ship to Hawaii and Alaska. I got a friend in LA. I ship them to him, he forward ships it to me. Pain in the ass.


Wow! How much does that cost?


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

FranklinsApprentice said:


> Wow! How much does that cost?


If you have to ask that question, you cannot afford to live here.......


----------



## FranklinsApprentice (Apr 15, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> If you have to ask that question, you cannot afford to live here.......


No doubt, just curious.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

FranklinsApprentice said:


> I know this might be a stupid question but have you checked the voltage sense wires n1 and n2. It sounds like it could be a bad fuse in the transfer switch or a bad wire. Measure both to neutral in the generator and see if you have 120v or 240 when measuring across the both of them.


Only the unasked Q is stupid FA, i'll check all next visit.....oh and last Generac problem i had turned out to be crossed wiring in the T switch, from the factory!

~CS~


----------



## FranklinsApprentice (Apr 15, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Only the unasked Q is stupid FA, i'll check all next visit.....oh and last Generac problem i had turned out to be crossed wiring in the T switch, from the factory!
> 
> ~CS~


Yup, ive found missed wiring before. Just had to swap them around.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> yes, had to use search to find it BBQ....
> 
> anywho.....
> 
> ...


Funny, I just completed a Kholer<sp> first start up a month ago. It would not shut down after I restored power via the main service disconnect.
It has 4 LV control wires.
I ended up manually shutting it down.
I was getting error codes on the LCD about communication between the genny and the ATS. I corrected this and did another trial run which worked properly.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

so you_ corrected_ the program aftershock?

~CS~


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

If its one of the newer ones, pay attention to the terminal strip labeling, sometimes they come with the decals reversed or backwards causing folks to land their wires incorrectly. Esp 194,23,0.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> so you_ corrected_ the program aftershock?
> 
> ~CS~


I corrected the connections at the LV blocks in the Xfer switch. Corrected meaning I found a loose connection on one of the terminals. This one I worked with seemed very touchy about the control wire connections. Even with tight connections, if I bump, pull or anything on the control wires, the genny LCD will throw an error on communication.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

hmmm, fodder for thought...i'll have to check all connections now....~CS~


----------



## FranklinsApprentice (Apr 15, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> hmmm, fodder for thought...i'll have to check all connections now....~CS~


Is this a new install? Check connections. N1 and N2 and T1 are push in connections. You push down on the top tabs and then insert wire. 194 and 23 are screwed down. And yes look at labels and match to wires. The wires are all labeled. I have caught the wires mismatched to the lable. That unit must have been made on a Friday. 

If existing install then its bad connection, bad wire, or bad fuse......hopefully.


----------

