# Too many conductors...



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Question cannot be answered unless the in² of the box is known.


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

I gave u the conductor count for the outlet box so it you don't know the cubic inches off the top of your head I don't think you are a electrician or a good one.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

I count 10 conductors, not 9. Obviously it's very old. Why make a big deal? Just do what you've got to do and move on!


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Make it fit. Done.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

cordell215 said:


> I gave u the conductor count for the outlet box so it you don't know the cubic inches off the top of your head I don't think you are a electrician or a good one.



Tell us how you came up with your count oh great one.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

I thought you only count current carrying conductors? So would t the count be 6?


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Why would someone use a 14 cube box.
14's - 2 cubes per ccc + one ground, device 4 cubes
12's - 2 1/4 cubes per ccc + one ground, device 4 1/2 cubes
I always use 23's in my stock.

I will patiently wait for 480 to reply to cordell.....


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

That is an old bakelite box from the '70s. Back then, you would not have had some 23s in your truck!:laughing:

OP: "too" many conductors, not "two" many conductors, especially when you're talking about counting!


This long delay means Ken's gonna get him good! Going to make popcorn!


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

JoeKP said:


> I thought you only count current carrying conductors? So would t the count be 6?


 That would be derating, not box fill. 314.16 (B) 1-5


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The box fill is calculated thus:

1- 14/*3*
2- 14/*2*
1- device

There's 7 hots and neutrals (14/*3* + 14/*2* + 14/*2*, 3+2+2=*7*)

All the grounds count as *1*. 314.16(B)(5).

The device counts as *2*. 314.16(B)(4)

*7* + *1* + *2* = *10*.

If the box is listed as allowing 7 14's, then it's overfilled. 

But since the box isn't a Carlon blue, then fughedabowdit and move on... no fire will result in overfill.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> The box fill is calculated thus:
> 
> 1- 14/3
> 2- 14/2
> ...


And now I know!


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Make it fit. Done.


But yet I still agree with this.....


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

How I do my tell count Is the first conductors in their entirety 14/3 = 3, two 14/2 = 4, yoke = 2 a total of 9 conductors. Please don't forget when counting conductors that originate in the same box and never leave the box is never counted.. 314.16(B)(1) (pig tail) etc.


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

Important...!!!!! if u make it fix you are in violation & not code complaint don't be a electrician go work at home depot or something because of ppl like dis give the good electrician a bad name... yea I said it


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

cordell215 said:


> How I do my tell count Is the first conductors in their entirety 14/3 = 3, two 14/2 = 4, yoke = 2 a total of 9 conductors. Please don't forget when counting conductors that originate in the same box and never leave the box is never counted.. 314.16(B)(1) (pig tail) etc.


You are forgetting to count the grounds as one...10 conductors in that box.




cordell215 said:


> Important...!!!!! if u make it fix you are in violation & not code complaint don't be a electrician go work at home depot or something because of ppl like dis give the good electrician a bad name... yea I said it


Your spelling and sentence structure is giving the good electricians a bad name....yeah, I said it.:thumbsup:


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

so is your wiring method... yea I said it LoL


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Looks like box is recessed behind sheetrock, anyway. If you're that worried about it, slap an extender in there and move along


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

cordell215 said:


> Important...!!!!! if u make it fix you are in violation & not code complaint don't be a electrician go work at home depot or something because of ppl like dis give the good electrician a bad name... yea I said it



You are a reeee tard. Yea I said it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I typically go in, fix the problem, make sure it's safe, and collect my check.

Box fill never enters my mind unless it's extreme. I can't see myself counting conductors and checking the size of the box to make sure it's not 1 wire over.


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

I just installed a two gang old work box & added a second switch.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I typically go in, fix the problem, make sure it's safe, and collect my check.
> 
> Box fill never enters my mind unless it's extreme. I can't see myself counting conductors and checking the size of the box to make sure it's not 1 wire over.


I wouldn't worry about box fill on this, unless I was asked to install a huge dimmer.




cordell215 said:


> I just installed a two gang old work box & added a second switch.
> 
> View attachment 27708


Holy crap! An avacado green Dixie Cup dispenser! Did you drive your DeLorean 88 MPH to get to the job?


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

finish product....


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Impressive


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Impressive


:laughing: I could literally smell the sarcasm thru the internet :thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

cordell215 said:


> finish product....
> 
> View attachment 27709



I'm confused. Why did you need to add another switch?


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

the single gang switch controlled the vanity light & ventilation fan for the bathroom so I separated them the customer was so happy..


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

cordell215 said:


> the single gang switch controlled the vanity light & ventilation fan for the bathroom so I separated them the customer was so happy..


You should sell a fan timer as an upgrade :thumbsup:


Next time you do that with the box, try a 2 gang smartbox that attaches right the the stud, it works well in that situation.


Personally, for what you did there I would have just installed one of these and not worried about the box fill :whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

cordell215 said:


> finish product....
> 
> View attachment 27709



Oh, noes! Blue Box!

Fire will ensue! Call FD! :laughing:


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

this what the original ventilation fan looked like when I got to the job.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Personally, for what you did there I would have just installed one of these and not worried about the box fill :whistling2:


Yeah, double switch all the way.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Loop the conductors thru and it only counts as one each...


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

cordell215 said:


> this what the original ventilation fan looked like when I got to the job.


So you did the original work years ago and then they called you back to fix it, now you want to know how good of a job you did?


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## theloop82 (Aug 18, 2011)

Way to big deal it. I think you spent more time taking pictures of this arduous wiring endeavor than most house ropers would have taken to rewire the whole bathroom. 

Did the president actually put the medal around your neck afterwords or was it just in the velvet box?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

cordell215 said:


> I just installed a two gang old work box & added a second switch.


Congratulations. You're working on counting wires in a nail on box in someone's ratty bathroom. You are the only person in the world who will appreciate the good deed you've done today. You're like batman. Ropeman!


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

I think I speak for everyone here when I say...

Thank you for showing me the way to count conductors...and to think, I've just shoved as many wires in the box as would physically fit.

Now, if only someone would show me how to lay out the receptacle over a counter top, I'd be all set.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

Deep Cover said:


> I think I speak for everyone here when I say...
> 
> Thank you for showing me the way to count conductors...and to think, I've just shoved as many wires in the box as would physically fit.
> 
> Now, if only someone would show me how to lay out the receptacle over a counter top, I'd be all set.


Start by borrowing the carpenter's 6' level and run your height mark around the entire kitchen, marking every stud!:thumbsup:


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