# Small crimp terminal quality



## SpaceMonkey (Sep 19, 2018)

Curious to hear your guy’s thoughts on whether to buy expensive connectors like nylon T&B(red,blue,yellow), which can go up to $2 a piece, or the very cheap vinyl terminals which are a quarter of the price. This is mostly for service in a commercial environment.

No reason for me to be especially cheap, the costs could be covered fine. Just want to get a sense of if the expensive terminals actually improve reliability.

Thanks all


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## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

Brazed seam is the key for these. Nylon terminals will typically have a higher pullout strength than a vinyl terminal because of the nylon terminals having a brass strain relief sleeve that grips the insulation. A quality brazed seam terminal crimped with the correct ratcheting crimper will be stronger than the wire.

If you need lots of the same size, there are often boxes of 500-5000 of new old stock T&B mil-spec terminals on eBay.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Lever Nuts......... they can do everything.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I have done some testing of this, crude methods but enough to make up my mind. For example I made up a few of short jumpers with cheapo yellow ring terminals on one end and Ideal ring terminals on the other, then pulled them apart by the rings. The cheapos let go first every time. I thought it might be the crimper I used so I used different crimpers and same result, the Ideal brand beat the noname stuff. 
One thing I have noticed, and this probably isn't a surprise, but if you want really good crimp connections, uninsulated terminals crimp better, stronger, and more consistent. And they're dirt cheap. You can crimp a lot better if you're not working through the insulation. With insulated crimps, you're relying on the lug on the crimper to be the exact right size for the terminal, so that it squeezes enough to crimp, but doesn't oversqueeze and ruin the insulation. 

For ground wires I'd use uninsulated, hands down. I recently did a project where I used uninsulated crimps and a little bit of heat shrink to insulate them after checking the crimp. In the shop or at a panel, I takes next to no time to slip on a piece of shrink tube, crimping is if anything a bit faster (and better and did I mention cheaper) and if you can heat shrink a bunch in batch rather than heating them one by one as you crimp them, it takes very little time. In the field, I'd not want to bother with a heat gun. For service where you're just doing a few here and there I don't see any big deal taping them.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

T&B is my choice. I have used those from Fastenal and other companies that come in and restock for you. In the end we always came to the very same conclusion.
Buy your own and buy T&B. 
A little more money, so we bought them buy 100 pack. And we stocked them ourselves. Had a minimum on hand.
Seems the people that come in and stock for you, put to much in inventory.
Of course the guys rather see the cute chick stocking in the supply room.



macmikeman said:


> Lever Nuts......... they can do everything.


We are talking terminal like ring and spade. Butt splice ect......


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

T&B terminals can be bought in bulk packs of 1000 or 500 depending on the size. Great savings if you go though a lot of terminals.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

$2 seems awful cheap. If you are buying say T&B long barrel 500 kcmil 1 hole compression lugs, $80 a piece is not unheard of in an emergency. Higher yet if it’s an oddball like 550 Kcmil for those annoying DLO cables if you run into a bunch of old GE stuff. $2 for a 10-12 AWG yellow ring terminal, even 3/8” ring, seems awful overpriced.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

paulengr said:


> $2 seems awful cheap. If you are buying say T&B long barrel 500 kcmil 1 hole compression lugs, $80 a piece is not unheard of in an emergency. Higher yet if it’s an oddball like 550 Kcmil for those annoying DLO cables if you run into a bunch of old GE stuff. $2 for a 10-12 AWG yellow ring terminal, even 3/8” ring, seems awful overpriced.


As an example of what I posted above, 10-RC10 (yellow #10 ring) cost me 57¢ to buy by the hundred. If I buy bulk, RC367, the same terminal costs 23¢.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

There is a reason that T&B and other top brands cost more: they just work better. The crimps are consistent and reliable. Yes, bare terminals are much better to work with. In the "old days" on larger jobs, only bare terminals were allowed.

I ran out of good terminal once and bought some off brand. What ever they were made from was so hard they could not be crimped properly. I have also seen some that were so soft, that it was like trying to crimp aluminum foil.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> T&B is my choice. I have used those from Fastenal and other companies that come in and restock for you. In the end we always came to the very same conclusion.
> Buy your own and buy T&B.
> A little more money, so we bought them buy 100 pack. And we stocked them ourselves. Had a minimum on hand.
> Seems the people that come in and stock for you, put to much in inventory.
> ...


Really? Really really really? Oh gee I guess I couldn't figure that part out for myself. not.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

splatz said:


> I have done some testing of this, crude methods but enough to make up my mind. For example I made up a few of short jumpers with cheapo yellow ring terminals on one end and Ideal ring terminals on the other, then pulled them apart by the rings. The cheapos let go first every time. I thought it might be the crimper I used so I used different crimpers and same result, the Ideal brand beat the noname stuff.
> One thing I have noticed, and this probably isn't a surprise, but if you want really good crimp connections, uninsulated terminals crimp better, stronger, and more consistent. And they're dirt cheap. You can crimp a lot better if you're not working through the insulation. With insulated crimps, you're relying on the lug on the crimper to be the exact right size for the terminal, so that it squeezes enough to crimp, but doesn't oversqueeze and ruin the insulation.
> 
> *For ground wires I'd use uninsulated, hands down.* I recently did a project where I used uninsulated crimps and a little bit of heat shrink to insulate them after checking the crimp. In the shop or at a panel, I takes next to no time to slip on a piece of shrink tube, crimping is if anything a bit faster (and better and did I mention cheaper) and if you can heat shrink a bunch in batch rather than heating them one by one as you crimp them, it takes very little time. In the field, I'd not want to bother with a heat gun. For service where you're just doing a few here and there I don't see any big deal taping them.


Same here. But do you put heat shrink on bare copper grounding conductors?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Quickservice said:


> Same here. But do you put heat shrink on bare copper grounding conductors?


No definitely not, for bare copper the choice is easy. 

The only reason anyone would use insulated connectors is because they don't want to stock the uninsulated. But as easy as it is to insulate them, why not just stock the uninsulated? Heat shrink if you're doing a lot or moving around, tape if you are doing a few for service, repairs, etc.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

splatz said:


> *No definitely not, for bare copper the choice is easy.*
> 
> The only reason anyone would use insulated connectors is because they don't want to stock the uninsulated. But as easy as it is to insulate them, why not just stock the uninsulated? Heat shrink if you're doing a lot or moving around, tape if you are doing a few for service, repairs, etc.


Whew... I didn't think so, just wanted to check.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Really? Really really really? Oh gee I guess I couldn't figure that part out for myself. not.


Sorry for trying to help. I will think before doing it again.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

My biggest problem with the cheap connectors is how thin the metal rings or forks are. They bend and separate just tightening the screws to the box or device. Sometimes removing them from under the screw completely.


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