# Ground electrode system



## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Hey im doing a job and I have a question for splicing conductor for the ground electrode system.

I'm originating from the ground bar in my service entrance that is detached from the building its servicing, I need to hit a generator, building steel, main water, the main fire riser, ufer and some telecom rooms. The way I understood is that the splicing should be irreversible. So I would run a single conductor and "T" off to bond all the items using cadwelding or crimping.

I'm being told I should utilize ground bars to splice my ground electrode conductor.

So I would use the ground bar in the service entrance to run a single conductor to the generator and one to the main electric room ground bar. From the bar in the main electric room run individual conductors to building steel, ufer, water, telecom rooms etc.

Also there are no transformers.

Is it acceptable to bring all the connections to ground bars and terminate with chair lugs?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

freeagnt54 said:


> Is it acceptable to bring all the connections to ground bars and terminate with chair lugs?


What is a chair lug?



> I'm being told I should utilize ground bars to splice my ground electrode conductor.


WHo is telling you this?


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

brian john said:


> What is a chair lug?
> 
> https://m.platt.com/Products.aspx?search=chair lugs
> 
> ...


Not enough characters


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

I would say it depends on what was drawn or specified in the plans.
If not specified then it's code minimum.
I see nothing wrong with irreversible T taps as long as it's sized correctly, done properly, and was not specified another way.

Another common example is the the ground splice plates.
https://stormpowercomponents.com/shop-our-stock/ground-bars-ground-bar-kits

Think of the mega resorts in LV.
It would be ridiculous to run a single conductor to 1000's of panels, Xfmrs, substations, piping sys, generators, pool eqp., electrodes, etc.

Another way would be a single conductor hitting lay in lugs.

Off my head the conductor splices need to be irreversible.
But connections to electrodes such as set screw lugs, chair lugs, rod clamps, pipe clamps, etc don't (unless plans specified).

I would review you documents / plans.
If you don't find anything ask the PM to show you where it requires what he wants.
Then offer a change order or compromise.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Check the spec. sheet. Sometimes those little details come back.........and sting.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

brian john said:


> What is a chair lug?


Kind of shaped like a chair


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

freeagnt54 said:


> Not enough characters


That link was no help opened a page with 10,000 products.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

splatz said:


> Kind of shaped like a chair


You are crapping me, here that is called a lug, as it as basic as a lug gets.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

To your original question you can do it either way (depending on specifications) generally we see a ground ring with hypressed tails off for specific equipment


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

brian john said:


> You are crapping me, here that is called a lug, as it as basic as a lug gets.


I **** you not! I could see it when I heard it but not sure I heard that one before. 



brian john said:


> To your original question you can do it either way (depending on specifications) generally we see a ground ring with hypressed tails off for specific equipment


In my overly simplistic understanding, I thought the rule would be irreversible splices for the GEC to all grounding electrodes, but bonding jumpers to building steel or the GEC, need not be irreversible. 

IME you can get into trouble following a spec to the letter if they can point to a note on a drawing or a clause in the contract that states you have to follow the spec, AND also satisfy the NEC and all local amendments.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Your building steel etc needs to be tied to the main panel at the buildng not a remote panelboard


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Your building steel etc needs to be tied to the main panel at the buildng not a remote panelboard


Right, so the GEC has to hit the building steel, but if you need a bonding jumper to building steel elsewhere, you don't have to have an irreversible splice on the bonding jumper.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

splatz said:


> Right, so the GEC has to hit the building steel, but if you need a bonding jumper to building steel elsewhere, you don't have to have an irreversible splice on the bonding jumper.


Correct, One grounding electrode conductor and the rest are bonding jumpers.

My point was that the op sounded like he was running the grounding electrode conductor's to the remote panel


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

freeagnt54 said:


> i'm being told i should utilize ground bars to splice my ground electrode conductor.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

To clairify

In the main electric room generally, we see a master Ground Bar (MGB) all electrodes tie to this and then to the main switchboard(s) From here or if they use a Ground Ring around the building they pick up additional equipment generator, lightning protection.....


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

brian john said:


> To clairify
> 
> In the main electric room generally, we see a master Ground Bar (MGB) all electrodes tie to this and then to the main switchboard(s) From here or if they use a Ground Ring around the building they pick up additional equipment generator, lightning protection.....


Yes that's what I meant was a dedicated ground bar in normal power main electric room. Now would chair lugs and and standard hardware suffice here or should I use crimp lugs and breakaway bolts to satisfy the "irreversible" splice.

Specs do not detail the the ground electrode splicing. 

Actually if I go from the service entrance to my Ufer ground with out splice then up to my dedicated ground bar. Would everything else be considered bonding jumpers and the irreversible splice wouldn't apply?


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