# New arc fault 2011 210.12 B



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Yeah, right.....Okay NEC, I'm running to buy an AFCI now. NOT:no:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

This in my opinion has been the way it was interpreted around here for years. Eventually they will be coming out with AFCI receptacles which should alleviate some of the issues.

It is ridiculous but it is what it is.


----------



## redseal (Sep 22, 2010)

In Minnesota we could extend a circuit, except for a few local inspectors, Bloomington, St. lous park, A big F you if you read this you power hungry jack arses. Anyway if the device isnt their like a gfi, it cant be done. So guess what Daryl in StLP.. less insp = less $$ so go suck a big one you Power hungry mother humper!!!! I really hope you local inspectors read this and realize I wont pull a permit in your area ever!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::no::no::blink::blink:


----------



## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> This in my opinion has been the way it was interpreted around here for years. Eventually they will be coming out with AFCI receptacles which should alleviate some of the issues.
> 
> It is ridiculous but it is what it is.


How would an AFCI receptacle provide protection of the branch circuit?

How does an afci receptacle open during faults located pre-receptacle 

All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-
ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling
unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors,
libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms,
closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected
by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combinationtype,*
installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
*


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> How would an AFCI receptacle provide protection of the branch circuit?


It will not protect the entire branch circuit but it is a compromise if installed at the first outlet. Remember we are talking replacement here.



NEC 2011 said:


> 406.4(D)(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit interrupter protection as specified
> elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following:
> (1) A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter
> Receptacle
> ...


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Wow, everytime I change a receptacle on the 14 and theres no AFCI protection, it will need to be added? That'll create some extra revenue.


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> It will not protect the entire branch circuit but it is a compromise if installed at the first outlet. Remember we are talking replacement here.


I read the paperback in the store and don't remember it saying that it will become effective 1/01/14, I don't remember a date at all. I don't have a book yet, they won't be in until at least mid-February. I haven't seen the PDF either, just saying I don't recall seeing that in the actual book itself. I could be wrong though, it happens often.


----------



## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

thegoldenboy said:


> I read the paperback in the store and don't remember it saying that it will become effective 1/01/14, I don't remember a date at all. I don't have a book yet, they won't be in until at least mid-February. I haven't seen the PDF either, just saying I don't recall seeing that in the actual book itself. I could be wrong though, it happens often.


The replacement requirement in 406.4(D)(4) does not become effective until 1/01/14 but the branch circuit extentions and modifications requirements in 210.12(B) are effective whenever the 2011 NEC is adopted by your jurisdicition.

Remeber there are 2 new AFCI requirements 1 for branch circuit extentions and 1 for receptacle replacements.

Chris


----------



## loopholeguy (May 18, 2010)

redseal said:


> In Minnesota we could extend a circuit, except for a few local inspectors, Bloomington, St. lous park, A big F you if you read this you power hungry jack arses. Anyway if the device isnt their like a gfi, it cant be done. So guess what Daryl in StLP.. less insp = less $$ so go suck a big one you Power hungry mother humper!!!! I really hope you local inspectors read this and realize I wont pull a permit in your area ever!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::no::no::blink::blink:


How about proof reading before you post so we can make some sense out of your rants.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

loopholeguy said:


> How about proof reading before you post so we can make some sense out of your rants.


 Looks like he hates the inspectors in his area:laughing:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> I read the paperback in the store and don't remember it saying that it will become effective 1/01/14,


 What I posted is straight out of the 2011 NEC.


----------



## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

edit. spoke too soon


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

My opinion is no.

Would a panel upgrade equate to 'Modify a ckt' ?

Meaning will I now have to add AFCI?


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

leland said:


> My opinion is no.
> 
> Would a panel upgrade equate to 'Modify a ckt' ?
> 
> Meaning will I now have to add AFCI?


IMO , no but some jurisdictions try and make people do it. I think the intent of 210.12 in the nec 2011 to avoid unnecessary adding of arc fault. Changing from a fuse to a CB is not modifying the circuit.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Thanx. Thats my logic too.

However,we do have some inspectors that will require (or try to) them on up grades.

Heck, I got 1 guy around here I had to explain what AFCI was- old timer-old school.
But He will not sign off if you don't put stickies on the GFCI protected rec. :jester:

So I guess: If you don't feel like arguing with the inspector (which some really enjoy !!) Just know their quirks and price accordingly,things won't be so bad.:thumbsup:

(Ma uses current NEC. State wide-)


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm going to start pulling more circuits on older houses. Most older houses here have been hacked up and have shared neutrals everywhere. If I do extend one I will put the arc fault in first to make sure it will hold before I cut the box in.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Old houses: I always prefer a new ckt over extension,when feasible. For a host of reasons.


----------



## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

redseal said:


> In Minnesota we could extend a circuit, except for a few local inspectors, Bloomington, St. lous park, A big F you if you read this you power hungry jack arses. Anyway if the device isnt their like a gfi, it cant be done. So guess what Daryl in StLP.. less insp = less $$ so go suck a big one you Power hungry mother humper!!!! I really hope you local inspectors read this and realize I wont pull a permit in your area ever!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::no::no::blink::blink:


So you don't like Bloomington or St. Louis Park? What about Minnetonka or Richfield? I loved those places. When them cute mid-western chicks find out your from California and went to that 90210 school, they are all over you. But that was 20 years ago, so maybe it's changed.


----------



## trimixdiver (Jan 13, 2011)

AFCI rec are allowed as long as the branch is wired with armored. Correct?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

trimixdiver said:


> AFCI rec are allowed as long as the branch is wired with armored. Correct?



Yes, if you could find a real combo AFCI receptacle, and only the portion between the breaker/fuse and said mythical AFCI receptacle needs to be armored. Any boxes in that portion must be metal as well.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Yes, if you could find a real combo AFCI receptacle, and only the portion between the breaker/fuse and said mythical AFCI receptacle needs to be armored. Any boxes in that portion must be metal as well.


Why even bother your better off spending $40 on a breaker.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Why even bother your better off spending $40 on a breaker.



I'd say so, given you can't buy an AFCI receptacle at ANY price right now.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I'd say so, given you can't buy an AFCI receptacle at ANY price right now.


I don't see why they would make one they have a good deal going right now


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I get the occasional service call to add a circuit to a fuse panel. AFCI fuses are surprisingly elusive...


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

redseal said:


> In Minnesota we could extend a circuit, except for a few local inspectors, Bloomington, St. lous park, A big F you if you read this you power hungry jack arses. Anyway if the device isnt their like a gfi, it cant be done. So guess what Daryl in StLP.. less insp = less $$ so go suck a big one you Power hungry mother humper!!!! I really hope you local inspectors read this and realize I wont pull a permit in your area ever!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::no::no::blink::blink:


Who the hell is Darryl? I know 2 inspectors that work Saint Louis Park and neither are Darryl


----------



## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Who the hell is Darryl? I know 2 inspectors that work Saint Luis Park and neither are Darryl


----------

