# Old School Splicing



## B-Nabs

I've used Western Union splices to repair extension cords before (no solder), it worked really well, nice and low profile and very strong.


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## five.five-six

Wagos are faster.


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## splatz

On the other thread they were talking about repairing romex inside a wall. 

If you did it right you would make a wire nut splice in an accessible junction box. 

It would not be compliant to make three staggered western union splices, shrink tube around each, and an overall shrink tube where the jacket is missing. 

Which do you think is safer? 

Would solder change your answer? 

They were mostly gone before my time so it doesn't mean much but I don't remember hearing very often about finding soldered splices going bad, even very old ones.


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## canbug

Come on, I was taught that in high school electrical lab.

Tim.


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## splatz

canbug said:


> Come on, I was taught that in high school electrical lab.


The three wire method?


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## HackWork

splatz said:


> On the other thread they were talking about repairing romex inside a wall.
> 
> If you did it right you would make a wire nut splice in an accessible junction box.
> 
> It would not be compliant to make three staggered western union splices, shrink tube around each, and an overall shrink tube where the jacket is missing.
> 
> Which do you think is safer?
> 
> Would solder change your answer?
> 
> They were mostly gone before my time so it doesn't mean much but I don't remember hearing very often about finding soldered splices going bad, even very old ones.


Concealing doesn't make a difference as far as safety. 

If you are going to conceal a splice, I think the splice should be made like every other splice that we make today. 

The only difference is you should pay a little more attention to the details when making that splice to ensure that no one will ever need to find it.


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## canbug

Ok, not the three wire but nice twist and some flowing solder made for a great splice

Tim.


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## Bird dog

Soldering is a skill all it's own. If I have a say in the matter, I don't hide splices.


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## active1

Soldered splices and cloth tape is something you would see in older buildings.
I knew one city 10 years ago that still had it in their amendments that all wire splices shall be soldered. It was a pain as it also seemed like splices were much shorter back in the day. Cut up solder splice off and you could end up re-pulling everything (conduit) because you didn't have enough to work with. With the same problem in the next box. I never soldered building electrical myself. I cheated and used those new fanged red twisty things.


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## HackWork

That's the way it is in much of my area, soldered splices on wires that aren't long enough to exit the box, it's like they soldered the connection in the back of the box and added a 2" pigtail to reach the device.


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## splatz

I thought those old splices were generally dipped in a solder pot? I know one guy that I can ask, he did solder connections back in the 50s. However he is not a huge fan of telephones and not a fan of computers at all so I'll have to either write him a letter or wait until I run into him to ask


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## active1

My understanding is it was dipped in flux.
Then followed by a torch and soder.


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## Bird dog

splatz said:


> I thought those old splices were generally dipped in a solder pot? I know one guy that I can ask, he did solder connections back in the 50s. However he is not a huge fan of telephones and not a fan of computers at all so I'll have to either write him a letter or wait until I run into him to ask


I remember an electrician say it took all day for "make up" because he had to walk around with a solder pot and dip all the connections He also said wire nuts really made it a quicker job.


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## Navyguy

In a similar vane, I just taught one of my guys the underwriters knot for pigtail pendants.

He thought I was pulling his leg, until I explained the requirement for strain relief.

I still don't think he believes me, but I am sure he looked it up by now!

Old Dog = 1 - Puppies = 0 

Cheers

John


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## Bird dog

Navyguy said:


> In a similar vane, I just taught one of my guys the underwriters knot for pigtail pendants.
> 
> He thought I was pulling his leg, until I explained the requirement for strain relief.
> 
> I still don't think he believes me, but I am sure he looked it up by now!
> 
> Old Dog = 1 - Puppies = 0
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John


He may do the same thing if you sent him to the boss to get a wiremold bender.


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## chicken steve

_Egggg_zactly the time honored Electrician Handbook method , before the dark times of the farce.....~CS~


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## FaultCurrent

I still have all the tools. Soldering coppers, ladles, dippers, blowtorch with hook for coppers and the melting pot. Not sure if they still work, where the hell do I buy white gas? 

Ceiling splices you could leave the bare splices pointed down, with rosin flux applied. Then heat up the lead in the pot and fill your little ladle. Take the little dipping ladle around and dip all the splices. Same for any wall boxes that you could access. For all the rest, heat up the copper suspended in front of the blowtorch, and hit as many as you could before it cooled off.

Never, never forget to preheat all your ladles and the pot before dipping the ladle. The ladle will absorb water, so will the pot, and and if you put the cold ladle in the molten lead it will explode, blowing molten lead all to hell. Good way to burn the hell out of you.

Splicing 500 MCM you would sister the wires and serve them up with some solid #12. Then heat the splice and add the solder, not wire solder but lead soldering bars. Haven't seen a soldering bar for ages come to think of it.

Then it was get out the varnished cambric, rubber tape, putty, and mummify the splice. Wrap with that damn friction tape and you are done. Cheaper than kearney's at the time. But then a man's time was not worth much and materials were expensive, now it's the other way around.


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## emtnut

Navyguy said:


> In a similar vane, I just taught one of my guys the underwriters knot for pigtail pendants.
> 
> He thought I was pulling his leg, until I explained the requirement for strain relief.
> 
> I still don't think he believes me, but I am sure he looked it up by now!
> 
> Old Dog = 1 - Puppies = 0
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John


I showed one of our utility crews the half hitch knot for pulling cable.
They couldn't believe the pulling strength that it has 

Old Dogs = 2 - Puppies = still zip


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## Signal1

http://www.legrand.us/wiremold/raceway/steel-raceway/single-channel-raceway/500-700-small-raceway/600b-wiremold-bender.aspx


Bird dog said:


> He may do the same thing if you sent him to the boss to get a wiremold bender.


Those work really great for offsets, that's about it though.


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## sbrn33

Bird dog said:


> He may do the same thing if you sent him to the boss to get a wiremold bender.


I have a wiremold bender. They actually made one. Don't know if they still do. I will look for it.


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## fdew

http://www.legrand.us/wiremold/race...0-700-small-raceway/600b-wiremold-bender.aspx

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f24/big-reds-wiremold-benders-954/


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## HackWork

I have always gotten by using a normal bender and a rag.

I hate Wiremold, I prefer to strap romex around the walls of a room.


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## fdew

HackWork said:


> I hate Wiremold, I prefer to strap romex around the walls of a room.


If you dont like steel wiremold, how about wood wire mold (The original wire molding)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/232274061992

I have never seen this on Ebay before and I have been looking for it. 

It may not be up to code in your area Grin


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## Semi-Ret Electrician

active1 said:


> My understanding is it was dipped in flux.
> Then followed by a torch and soder.


a 300w iron worked well.


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## macmikeman

fdew said:


> If you dont like steel wiremold, how about wood wire mold (The original wire molding)
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232274061992
> 
> I have never seen this on Ebay before and I have been looking for it.
> 
> It may not be up to code in your area Grin



It is sold in every lumber store in Hawaii.


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## fdew

macmikeman said:


> It is sold in every lumber store in Hawaii.


Seriously? A two part wood molding made to hold two individual wires? What do they use it for? Have they added a 3rd slot for a ground? How do they terminate it? is it code? Sorry, so many questions.

Frank


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## wcord

fdew said:


> Seriously? A two part wood molding made to hold two individual wires? What do they use it for? Have they added a 3rd slot for a ground? How do they terminate it? is it code? Sorry, so many questions.
> 
> Frank


It was used for running surface knob and tube . No ground


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## geoffpowell

Probably used when knob & tube was cutting edge technology.


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## fdew

wcord said:


> It was used for running surface knob and tube . No ground


Yes, I know when and how it was used. I even have a display of it in use. I was trying to find out why it is still sold in every lumber store in Hawaii. Perhaps it was a joke I didn't get?


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## HackWork

fdew said:


> Yes, I know when and how it was used. I even have a display of it in use. I was trying to find out why it is still sold in every lumber store in Hawaii. Perhaps it was a joke I didn't get?


Use your imagination. The molding they sell there can fit romex.


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## MechanicalDVR

sbrn33 said:


> I have a wiremold bender. They actually made one. Don't know if they still do. I will look for it.


MDShunk has posted pics of them on here in the past, he has a couple different types.

I have used the rag and bender method with decent results.


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## MechanicalDVR

fdew said:


> Yes, I know when and how it was used. I even have a display of it in use. I was trying to find out why it is still sold in every lumber store in Hawaii. Perhaps it was a joke I didn't get?


Not a joke, it is used often there due to the panel type construction of many original style homes.

Macmikeman has discussed this many times in various threads.


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## fdew

Thanks. I learned something, And it didn't hurt!
Frank


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## MechanicalDVR

fdew said:


> Thanks. I learned something, And it didn't hurt!
> Frank


Welcome, anytime!


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## macmikeman

It's actually an expensive wiring method. Running some emt would be half the cost , but the wood mold is pretty fast to install, especially when they came out with Passload finish nail guns, and now they have cordless battery finish nail guns . Inspectors around here don't even blink at seeing it used, whether it is for single wall houses, or the now mandatory double wall construction (exterior floods on exposed soffit being a major usage.) It looks twenty times better when installed properly than any wire mold job, or emt, or any other exposed method the NEC allows. macmikeman is a wizard with the stuff.


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## Frank DuVal

Fault Current, you can buy White Gas at most any service station in the US. 

White gas meant it did not contain lead. Leaded gasoline had an orange color to it. Amoco and Mobile had white (unleaded) premium back in the 50s 60s. Now, every company has unleaded! Regular will do fine. 

Frank DuVal


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## joebanana

Frank DuVal said:


> Fault Current, you can buy White Gas at most any service station in the US.
> 
> White gas meant it did not contain lead. Leaded gasoline had an orange color to it. Amoco and Mobile had white (unleaded) premium back in the 50s 60s. Now, every company has unleaded! Regular will do fine.
> 
> Frank DuVal


Coleman camping fuel is basically the same.


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## telsa

FaultCurrent said:


> I still have all the tools. Soldering coppers, ladles, dippers, blowtorch with hook for coppers and the melting pot. Not sure if they still work, where the hell do I buy *white gas*?
> 
> Ceiling splices you could leave the bare splices pointed down, with rosin flux applied. Then heat up the lead in the pot and fill your little ladle. Take the little dipping ladle around and dip all the splices. Same for any wall boxes that you could access. For all the rest, heat up the copper suspended in front of the blowtorch, and hit as many as you could before it cooled off.
> 
> Never, never forget to preheat all your ladles and the pot before dipping the ladle. The ladle will absorb water, so will the pot, and and if you put the cold ladle in the molten lead it will explode, blowing molten lead all to hell. Good way to burn the hell out of you.
> 
> Splicing 500 MCM you would sister the wires and serve them up with some solid #12. Then heat the splice and add the solder, not wire solder but lead soldering bars. Haven't seen a soldering bar for ages come to think of it.
> 
> Then it was get out the varnished cambric, rubber tape, putty, and mummify the splice. Wrap with that damn friction tape and you are done. Cheaper than kearney's at the time. But then a man's time was not worth much and materials were expensive, now it's the other way around.


White gas = kerosene.

The name comes from the fact that it's not dyed. ( Dyed = tax status. )

Unleaded gasoline is too touchy... too prone to flash burns.


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## goodtimesgladly

splatz said:


> There was some talk about Western Union splices in a recent thread, something a lot of people never heard of now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking for an image file I had of a poster with a bunch of old school splices illustrated, I like reading about that stuff. I'll use it in a pinch with speaker wire, low voltage lighting, and other stuff.
> 
> I did not find that poster but did find a picture of a splice I don't remember seeing before, a three wire variation of the Western Union splice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from http://reference.insulators.info/publications/view/?id=9630
> 
> You basically just twist a short piece of wire in with the spliced wires and make a Western Union splice. I tried it with some scrap, it does clearly make a stronger splice. I'll probably use this in the future with small low voltage wires, splicing 18 gauge or smaller, to make a more durable connection.


I remember Electrical shop class in Junior High School. Would have been late 60's and this is exactly how they taught us. I think we used rosin core solder and electrical soldering iron or gun. 
I had an old electrician work for me for a while a few years ago and he was tinning stranded wire ends. I showed him my new fangled wire ferrules and crimping tool but old habits die hard.


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## frenchelectrican

telsa said:


> White gas = kerosene.
> 
> The name comes from the fact that it's not dyed. ( Dyed = tax status. )
> 
> Unleaded gasoline is too touchy... too prone to flash burns.


Telsa recheck the history of term of white gas basically it is unleaded gasoline that time in era sometime it called coleman gas both are same stuff.,,


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## frenchelectrican

emtnut said:


> I showed one of our utility crews the half hitch knot for pulling cable.
> They couldn't believe the pulling strength that it has
> 
> Old Dogs = 2 - Puppies = still zip


Chalk one up the list .,,

just got done teaching noobs about old school underground splices and they never knew the old school underground splice at all ( 4160 volt UG cable splice )

Old Dogs = 3 - Puppies = still empty coconut shell ( zero )


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## HackWork

Old school splicing is using wirenuts.


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## frenchelectrican

HackWork said:


> Old school splicing is using wirenuts.


 Yuh the pre Wago spice era .,,


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## TGGT

I might go out on my own just so I can start using lever nuts. None of my employers want to use them.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## HackWork

TGGT said:


> I might go out on my own just so I can start using lever nuts. None of my employers want to use them.


They are what dreams are made of.


FWIW, I probably wouldn't use them all that often in commercial new construction.


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## MechanicalDVR

HackWork said:


> They are what dreams are made of.
> 
> 
> FWIW, I probably wouldn't use them all that often in commercial new construction.


More for retrofitting lights and that type work?


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## HackWork

MechanicalDVR said:


> More for retrofitting lights and that type work?


In commercial new construction it's almost all new #12's. They will be cut long and have a large box to be folded into. I can splice them the conventional way with a wirenut quickly and easily.

Levernuts are great for resi service work when dealing with short existing wires and small boxes. They are also good for connecting residential style lights because they can be clipped over the wire with 1 hand while you hold the light with the other hand.


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## MTW

HackWork said:


> In commercial new construction it's almost all new #12's. They will be cut long and have a large box to be folded into. I can splice them the conventional way with a wirenut quickly and easily.
> 
> Levernuts are great for resi service work when dealing with short existing wires and small boxes. They are also good for connecting residential style lights because they can be clipped over the wire with 1 hand while you hold the light with the other hand.


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## Trailboss

Exceptional splice when done correctly and soldered and heat shrinked.
I can't tell you how many failed butt crimp connectors I have replaced on boats DC systems over the years.


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## Stryder89

telsa said:


> White gas = kerosene.
> 
> The name comes from the fact that it's not dyed. ( Dyed = tax status. )
> 
> Unleaded gasoline is too touchy... too prone to flash burns.


Um, sorry but no Kerosene is not white gas. Just smell them and you will notice the difference. Further test is the ignition factor. Coal oil vs. un-leaded gasoline. White gas is sold in small containers in your camping stores. Do not put un-leaded in a stove designed for Kerosene. 

Have a great day.


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## R777V

telsa said:


> White gas = kerosene.
> 
> The name comes from the fact that it's not dyed. ( Dyed = tax status. )
> 
> Unleaded gasoline is too touchy... too prone to flash burns.


Not for nothing but farm diesel fuel is dyed, so farmers don’t use it in their vehicles. This is to prevent tax scammers by fining people that use it in their trucks actually a severe fine involved. Coleman fuel is a refined unleaded. Nowadays the Coleman lamps are designed for unleaded or camp fuel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mburtis

Nothing you guys probably don't already know but from my 1927 copy of the American electricians handbook. Going to have to attempt to make some of these out of scrap.


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## Djea3

Navyguy said:


> In a similar vane, I just taught one of my guys the underwriters knot for pigtail pendants.


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## Djea3

Ooops...Navyguy
I really do not think that the knot is designed to actually support any pendant device. It is strain relief only, There must be some other mechanical hangar and stress device to hang the pendant if it is heavy. The newer pendants can be so light that specially designed cords can be the support and set screws or other cord clamp devices used to hold the dimension. Freaked me out the first time I used one of those.


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## Djea3

It is so funny that I ran into this topic yesterday and today was in an attic with excellent examples of these splices in still active knob and tube. Even more interesting was the the (no deceased) owner was very mechanically inclined and had built additions to this house as well as added electrical to it. In most cases he actually used these splices to splice Romex wires to the KT wiring. 
Will be returning in a week or two to begin rewiring all knob and tube. When I do that I am going to see about cutting out samples of the splices to look at more comfortably.


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## Almost Retired

splatz said:


> I thought those old splices were generally dipped in a solder pot? I know one guy that I can ask, he did solder connections back in the 50s. However he is not a huge fan of telephones and not a fan of computers at all so I'll have to either write him a letter or wait until I run into him to ask


I apprenticed under an electrician who did dip solder splices in 4squares that were not accessable in the down stairs ceiling of a 2 story house. That was about 1994. Since then I have learned it is illegal. However, I have had occasion to drive by that house from time to time, and it is still standing


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## seelite

Bird dog said:


> He may do the same thing if you sent him to the boss to get a wiremold bender.


I'm not sure of the context re: 'wiremold bender', whether you guys are joking or serious. Having installed mucho WM I finally broke down circa 1985 and I bought a WM bender. Designed for WM 500 & WM 700 metal raceways - had all the same markings as my 1/2 in EMT bender and made life a lot simple. Ended up with a neat appearing offset or bend and didn't even crack the paint. Although 85 yrs young and retired, I still have that bender in my basement. Don't know why though!


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## backstay

I thought I would post this conversation I had with @seelite , I have his permission.


Just came across a thread re: 50's & 60's 'tricians in which your response included "good luck finding a 50's electrician on here". Wanted to let you know that I graduated from trade school in '55 but 'helped' family from about end of WW2. In those days it was common to work K&T in residential settings and I thought it the cats nuts when BX (armour clad to you newbies) became common. I had such fun cutting the armour with a Hacksaw (no Roto-splits then) and it was a rare day when the blade didn't have my blood on it. I was so happy when they came out with the plastic 'red devils' (bushings) for they hid my blood on the wires (conductors to you) and the journeymen stopped harassing me 'cause they couldn't tell whether it was blood or red devils they were looking at. I'll be 85 years young next month, still try to keep up with NFPA 70 (NEC to you) and while no longer in the work force I still have my tools. Of course with the wife having been recalled the only time I get a hickey is when I bend some tubing ( I still do some work around the house ). And yes, when the Cotton braded NM came along (RX to you) ground continuity was still unheard of, receptacles were still parallel blade. YES, we did wrap the bare conductor around the outer jacket under the clamp because there was no where else to put it. Since most boxes were too small for the # of conductors to start with there was no room for a couple of grounds inside. Existing wires were already like Banjo strings. While there some retractions necessary in NFPA 70 from time to time, remember that it is still a great code. Not easy to have a perfect code when every year brings new equipment and new apprentices. I still look fondly at my trip from "Go-fer" to apprentice to journeyman to master to retiree. Still with me? Thanks for letting this old codger reminice.


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## NC Plc

The bossman taught me how to do a western union splice, I didn't know it had a name.


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