# New construction doorbell wiring



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Heath Zenith makes such a kit -model 120A. I bought a few at HD when they went on clearance, but seeing as I don't do new construction, I've never used them. :laughing:

Edit - I just checked online and it looks like it's been discontinued. Sometimes they show up on ebay.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

MHElectric said:


> I have always put my transformer in the hallway closet or garage next to the WH. Then to my chime and button.
> 
> Today I walked through a house that had just been wired and they did something different. They put up a double gang box at the chime and put the 120 for the transformer in the chime box...? I'm assuming they are either wiring up the transformer and leaving in the 2 gang box behind the chime, OR, there's some kinda new doorbell kit on the market that has a chime/transformer.
> 
> ...


Here they used to stuff the xformer in the same box with the HV. Your 2 gang carlon boxes will accept a divider so you can have the LV in the same box as the HV.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> Heath Zenith makes such a kit -model 120A. I bought a few at HD when they went on clearance, but seeing as I don't do new construction, I've never used them. :laughing:
> 
> Edit - I just checked online and it looks like it's been discontinued. Sometimes they show up on ebay.


I also kinda like the idea of wiring up the xfrm in the double gang box and burying it behind the chime. Legal?

I see at least $4-$5 worth of material savings right there, plus shaving a little bit of time off the rough and trim. Double whammy! :thumbup:


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> I also kinda like the idea of wiring up the xfrm in the double gang box and burying it behind the chime. Legal?


I doubt it.



> I see at least $4-$5 worth of material savings right there, plus shaving a little bit of time off the rough and trim. Double whammy! :thumbup:


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> Here they used to stuff the xformer in the same box with the HV. Your 2 gang carlon boxes will accept a divider so you can have the LV in the same box as the HV.


I thought you can mix the LV & 120(or any voltage) in one box. No more than once though.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


>


:thumbup:


----------



## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

I don't believe the xfrmr is rated to be installed in a box with no airflow. I've seen burn spots above a xfrmr on the wall. Now if it's a kit designed for that, then that's a different story.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I hang the transformer off the box holding the furnace disconnect switch.

_Always_ accessible.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MHElectric said:


> I thought you can mix the LV & 120(or any voltage) in one box. No more than once though.


 There's not really a "number of times," it's just an issue of whether the wiring is functionally associated or not. In this case, since they both go to the same device, I'd say yes it's permitted because they are functionally associated, but you still need to maintain physical separation between the Class 2 wiring and the power wiring. 725.136(D)


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok, ok. So the real question is: can the xfrm be left in the box and covered up with the chime, if I put some type of separation between the 120 & lv wiring?


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> Ok, ok. So the real question is: can the xfrm be left in the box and covered up with the chime, if I put some type of separation between the 120 & lv wiring?


I don't see why not but I'd feel safer using a listed product than some hacked up contraption.


----------



## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

This seems like more trouble than it's worth. I always just run a wire to panel from chime location and mount transformer on the panel. It's the easiest part of the rough, except for Draft stopping...


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> I don't see why not but I'd feel safer using a listed product than some hacked up contraption.


Yeah well, somebody's onto something if this is a legal install. If this flies, then somebody has figured out a new little short cut, and I like it.

...of course, this is assuming it is legal..


Big John said:


> There's not really a "number of times," it's just an issue of whether the wiring is functionally associated or not. In this case, since they both go to the same device, I'd say yes it's permitted because they are functionally associated, but you still need to maintain physical separation between the Class 2 wiring and the power wiring. 725.136(D)


I'll have to read 725.136 when I get in my truck, don't have the code book handy. I know when I did controls, they told us we could mix wires in ONLY ONE box. And we never put dividers up in any j-boxes or discos/starters. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I did as I was told and assumed I was being told correctly.


480sparky said:


> I hang the transformer off the box holding the furnace disconnect switch.
> 
> _Always_ accessible.


No furnace/mechanical closets around here, otherwise that's not a bad idea. I usually nail up an octagon box by the WH or in the hallway closet (whichever is closer), and then use a metal blank with a ko in it to hang the xfrm off.


----------



## gglav2 (Feb 1, 2013)

you can't have high and low in same box without divider it least in ma. i think its a national code anyways i like this idea im working on a finish now the doorbell is shorted from panel to chime and i ring it out on the rough it was clear now its shorted probably the AC guys they alway pull and move around my wires any one have a link for one of chime kits this is like the 3 time this has happened


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

gglav2 said:


> you can't have high and low in same box without divider it least in ma. i think its a national code anyways i like this idea im working on a finish now the doorbell is shorted from panel to chime and i ring it out on the rough it was clear now its shorted probably the AC guys they alway pull and move around my wires any one have a link for one of chime kits this is like the 3 time this has happened


Please use some punctuation. :wallbash:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)




----------



## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

Plug in wireless doorbell kits are less than $20. I'm surprised GCs/ECs haven't switched to those.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dan the electricman said:


> Plug in wireless doorbell kits are less than $20. I'm surprised GCs/ECs haven't switched to those.


No one wants to change the batteries.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

http://www.nutone.com/products/product/b0c1ef13-7109-4d18-bc10-74a04626a16a










This looks like it would do the job.


----------



## big vic (Jan 23, 2012)

http://www.atgstores.com/doorbell-c...Jg&gclsrc=aw.ds............................we use these with a divider


----------



## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

Here we would put a 1 g nail on box before the light switch for attic lights. So its hr to doorbell xfmr to plug to light switch. Then use a 1 g plate with the 1/2 ko , mount xfmr to plate line side goes in 1 g lV side is exposed . Usually a straight shot down to chime and down and across to door. We did it with attic or walk in attic. Helped us if xfmr ever went bad

no matter what we theorize as electrics. It has always been .


----------



## bmailman20 (Jan 4, 2013)

http://www.mmlighting.com/store/PPF/parameters/4668_539/more_info.asp









Nicor Prime Chime. Fits in a line/lo 2 gang. Power and bell wire both come to chime location. No desperate transformer. Done.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bmailman20 said:


> Nicor Prime Chime. Fits in a line/lo 2 gang. Power and bell wire both come to chime location. No desperate transformer. Done.


My transformers aren't desperate. :laughing:


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dropping an 18/2 to unfinished space is easy. I wouldn't want to be screwing around with a double gang box and a door chime on finished paint.

I knew a guy who mounted the transformer on the panel. That's kinda dumb


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

99cents said:


> I knew a guy who mounted the transformer on the panel. That's kinda dumb


That happens here a lot of the time. Not that dumb at all


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wcord said:


> That happens here a lot of the time. Not that dumb at all


Until the panel gets studded in and rocked over by people who couldn't care less about electricians who need to find the transformer someday.


----------



## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Until the panel gets studded in and rocked over by people who couldn't care less about electricians who need to find the transformer someday.


^^^THIS!^^^ been there way too many times!


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Until the panel gets studded in and rocked over by people who couldn't care less about electricians who need to find the transformer someday.


we have basements, where 'usually" the panel area is not recessed.
guess it's no worse than sticking the transformer on one of the ceiling lights and they drywall the ceiling.
Can't fix stupid


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wcord said:


> we have basements, where 'usually" the panel area is not recessed.
> guess it's no worse than sticking the transformer on one of the ceiling lights and they drywall the ceiling.
> Can't fix stupid


The azzholes I really hate are the ones who drop power and bell wires into the basement, usually right at the bottom of the stairs, and stick an 8b box on a joist for the transformer. ALWAYS in an area that will eventually get finished. And the power is never a dead-end.

Sometimes takes half a day just to reroute all that so the rock can go up.


----------



## Sbargers (Mar 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> Ok, ok. So the real question is: can the xfrm be left in the box and covered up with the chime, if I put some type of separation between the 120 & lv wiring?


I do this on every rough we do, you can use 6-32 to screw on doorbell housing covers nicely. We have done this here in mountains for years 4 houses weekly never an issue with any inspector plus easy troubleshooting. Most companies in my area do this, 1 small 18-2 to d.b. the doorbell housing has many holes to escape any heat into the finished shell which is vented. 

Sent from my XT1030 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


----------



## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Until the panel gets studded in and rocked over by people who couldn't care less about electricians who need to find the transformer someday.


We only do it on panels that are on poured walls in basement. Usually a mechanical area with no chance of being finished, even if the rest of the basement will be. That's the norm here anyway.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

99cents said:


> Dropping an 18/2 to unfinished space is easy. I wouldn't want to be screwing around with a double gang box and a door chime on finished paint.
> 
> I knew a guy who mounted the transformer on the panel. That's kinda dumb


That's how I usually do it. If the panel isn't going to be accessible or isn't accessible than I just find a jbox or set one and away you go.


----------



## John R (Aug 20, 2019)

*John R retired electrician from Fed Gov*

The last house i wired was mine 37 years ago. But I have seen them laying in the bottom of the LC and if the LC was surface mount, on the side of the LC, in attic on the side of a junction box and more


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

GarryJones said:


> Who can recommend to me the best product among those in the list on this site?
> https://bullsh1treferrallinksite.com/best-wireless-doorbell/



All depends. Which one do you get the biggest kickback on?


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

GarryJones said:


> Who can recommend to me the best product among those in the list on this site?
> https://buywirelessrouternow.com/best-wireless-doorbell/


Hi Troll. :vs_wave:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

He's gone


----------



## Alexander89 (Sep 13, 2019)

MTW said:


> I doubt it.



You're right buddy !


----------



## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> Until the panel gets studded in and rocked over by people who couldn't care less about electricians who need to find the transformer someday.



At first, I used to, feel bad cutting that crap out of the way. 



As I'm about to cut up their wall I give the old line, "Just as smart as someone welding the hood of your car closed. "


----------



## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

this is what I used for 69 apartments with recessed panel.saves time over remote xfmr.
http://www.nutone.com/products/product/1f8bf4fe-7894-446f-b81a-7582885d5dd0

in the hearing impaired units I used 2-gang box with special Edwards transformer bracket and located it in closet next to media cabinet.


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Everyone who ever posted,in this thread is dead of old age. Except 480sparky. He died trying to save a kitten in a septic tank. Behind a roadside Mexican taco stand.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What gauge wire do you guys use for doorbells and thermostats?

I have a 1,000 box of 22-4, is that gauge large enough or will it create issues with not being able to actuate the dinger thingie?


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> What gauge wire do you guys use for doorbells and thermostats?
> 
> I have a 1,000 box of 22-4, is that gauge large enough or will it create issues with not being able to actuate the dinger thingie?


Whatever gauge cat5 or cat6 is. Double up the pairs for a larger wire, paralleling rules be damned.


----------



## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

bmailman20 said:


> http://www.mmlighting.com/store/PPF/parameters/4668_539/more_info.asp
> 
> View attachment 38962
> 
> ...


too expensive. maybe by 3x


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Is anyone out there just plain stopping roughing in for the 
typical _builder special_ 12v door bells , considering many 
people now want the google nest or ring door bells?

I am pretty sure CAT 5 or 6 is the preferred method for these new ones
as opposed to 18 awg t-stat wire


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

hackwork said:


> what gauge wire do you guys use for doorbells and thermostats?
> 
> I have a 1,000 box of 22-4, is that gauge large enough or will it create issues with not being able to actuate the dinger thingie?


18/2


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> What gauge wire do you guys use for doorbells and thermostats?
> 
> I have a 1,000 box of 22-4, is that gauge large enough or will it create issues with not being able to actuate the dinger thingie?


I've seen Cat 5 work fine for doorbells, never seen it used for thermostats though.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

How is this thread still going? I thought there was something that stopped old threads from being resurrected.


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

MHElectric said:


> How is this thread still going? I thought there was something that stopped old threads from being resurrected.


Usually common sense makes people decide to not resurrect a thread.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

CoolWill said:


> Usually common sense makes people decide to not resurrect a thread.


I see.


----------

