# 3 phase rotation meter??



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm looking at buying a 3 phase rotation meter and am looking for any suggestions. I'm am looking to buy this one. http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-17.html


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Any ol' thing will work, but I do know a guy that tested rotation on a 480 V circuit and the old meter he had tried to blow up in his hand. Apparently it was only rated for like 300 volts or something... kinda useless considering half the 3 phase we deal with regularly is 480.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

OK, so the thing tells you which hot wire is A, which is B, and which is C.

Now the motor has three black wires.... whatcha gonna do?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> OK, so the thing tells you which hot wire is A, which is B, and which is C.


It only tells you rotation, it cannot identify which is A B or C.



> Now the motor has three black wires.... whatcha gonna do?


The most common use I have for my rotation meter is connecting generators or re-feeding existing systems from a new supply.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> The most common use I have for my rotation meter is connecting generators or re-feeding existing systems from a new supply.


 That is exactly what I would use it for.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

480sparky said:


> OK, so the thing tells you which hot wire is A, which is B, and which is C.
> 
> Now the motor has three black wires.... whatcha gonna do?


You check the motor, then the power, then A-A B-B C-C, what is difficult about that?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I'd love to pick up a new rotation meter for myself. You should see the old meter my company uses, it's like the original cell phones: The thing is so big it has a shoulder strap so you can carry it around.

Something surprising: For some reason I could only find *one* rotation meter rated Cat IV at 600V. You'd really think that considering how often these get connected at service points, they'd make more of 'em Cat IV. What's that all about?

-John


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

drsparky said:


> You check the motor, then the power, then A-A B-B C-C, what is difficult about that?


Does the thing in the OP check the motor leads?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Does the thing in the OP check the motor leads?


Nope.

I have one that does based on residual magnetism but honestly I have never needed it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Nope.
> 
> I have one that does based on residual magnetism but honestly I have never needed it.



I've got a Greenlee set that checks the motor, and it's saved my arse a couple times.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I've got a Greenlee set that checks the motor, and it's saved my arse a couple times.


Uh huh ....


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Does the thing in the OP check the motor leads?


I was going by the OPs stated question, I didn't look at the link, good catch.
Willy, get a 61-521 not a 61-520 $10 more, twice as useful.:thumbsup:
The 61-520 will only tell you sequencing of the power.
The 61-521 will also test the rotation of the motor.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Big John said:


> Something surprising: For some reason I could only find *one* rotation meter rated Cat IV at 600V.


Was it this one? I use the one in the OP's link but really want the one in my link. Wife said no.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Uh huh ....



You're right. I lied. I can just look at a motor lead and know which phase it is.


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

drsparky said:


> I was going by the OPs stated question, I didn't look at the link, good catch.
> Willy, get a 61-521 not a 61-520 $10 more, twice as useful.:thumbsup:
> The 61-520 will only tell you sequencing of the power.
> The 61-521 will also test the rotation of the motor.


The company I work for has the 520. Don't really like it. Those alligator clips are not easy to attach to lugs. You have to squeeze the clip open near the end, bringing your precious little sausage fingers closer to the char-grilling parts.

The clips on the 521 look like they would be a lot better, open wider, and keep you fingers further away from live parts.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Anyone tried UEI? They have a nice looking combination model for only $70 on Amazon. Still Cat III, but whatever.

-John


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

william1978 said:


> I'm looking at buying a 3 phase rotation meter and am looking for any suggestions. I'm am looking to buy this one. http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-17.html



This one is better. http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-16.html


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> This one is better. http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-16.html


 If you don't mind what makes it better?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

william1978 said:


> If you don't mind what makes it better?


You can test the motor phase rotation without power:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

william1978 said:


> If you don't mind what makes it better?



Here's a better link.http://cableorganizer.com/ideal-industries/61-521.html#features


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> You can test the motor phase rotation without power:thumbsup:


 Ok, thanks.:thumbsup:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

The first one checks power phase sequence.
The second one checks power phase sequence and you can also clip onto the motor leads, then hand turn the motor to find the rotation of the actual motor. 
Chuck


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I've got the Greenlee 5702. It doesn't identify A, B, C but you can check a motor before it is wired. I think I paid around $100 for it 10 years ago. Needed to check rotation on some 100Ton 480V A/C units that couldn't risk being "bumped" the wrong direction.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I have a KNOPP it does a fine job. It is extremely rugged to.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

William, doesn't your company supply a rotation meter? :whistling2:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> William, doesn't your company supply a rotation meter? :whistling2:


 Yea, but I kinda like to have my own. 

BTW how do you know who I work for???:blink: :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> This one is better. http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-16.html


That one is my favorite. Amprobe makes an identical one too. 

Just be careful not to apply voltage to the motor side, it ends badly.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Yea, but I kinda like to have my own.


Yeah that's the way I am. Company tools for the most part tend to get beat up a little more than normal.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> Yeah that's the way I am. Company tools for the most part tend to get beat up a little more than normal.


 And for the most part you have to wait on them to get there.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> That one is my favorite. Amprobe makes an identical one too.
> 
> Just be careful not to apply voltage to the motor side, it ends badly.


Yes found that out the hard way ""WOOOOP'S""":laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes found that out the hard way ""WOOOOP'S""":laughing::laughing::laughing:


 Did it smoke the meter?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes found that out the hard way ""WOOOOP'S""":laughing::laughing::laughing:


Actually, all joking aside there is at least one case (that I know) of a rotation checker causing a serious injury that way.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

william1978 said:


> Did it smoke the meter?


 Yes , but That is what happens when you are trying to rush things instead of thinking before doing.:no:

So at that time i just bought a nother one:thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Actually, all joking aside there is at least one case (that I know) of a rotation checker causing a serious injury that way.


Yes i wonder if they have solved that problem?

Also can that happen with the Amprobe type?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes i wonder if they have solved that problem?
> 
> Also can that happen with the Amprobe type?


I don't know, I think both the Ideal and Amprobe say "Do Not Connect To Voltage" or something like that near the motor jacks still.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> Actually, all joking aside there is at least one case (that I know) of a rotation checker causing a serious injury that way.


 
Yeah, because there is absolutely nothing funny about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMb5zhtR8hw


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Yeah, because there is absolutely nothing funny about it:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMb5zhtR8hw


That's the one I'm talking about.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> That's the one I'm talking about.


Watch it soon.... YouTube will likely remove it per request of the family.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank God He lived


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## ethaninmotion (Sep 28, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> That's the one I'm talking about.


Glad to see the guy recovered, that looked intense.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

ethaninmotion said:


> Glad to see the guy recovered, that looked intense.


That's a big reason why I think electricians are very taken granted for. We're not there to plant flowers. As many times as Donnie has used that tester for that function, one of the resistors let go in the tester and blew a puff of carbon onto the bus. It damn near killed him, I don't know how he survived that. He's no longer an electrician after that incident. He's an office manager. He does't look back on not carrying a tool pouch. He chose the office position after he recovered. Jeezhus Krighst, can you blame him? By many regards, that man was dead. He is a walking miracle, that's all there is to it. He beat death, how, I don't know?????


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## ethaninmotion (Sep 28, 2010)

76nemo said:


> That's a big reason why I think electricians are very taken granted for. We're not there to plant flowers. As many times as Donnie has used that tester for that function, one of the resistors let go in the tester and blew a puff of carbon onto the bus. It damn near killed him, I don't know how he survived that. He's no longer an electrician after that incident. He's an office manager. He does't look back on not carrying a tool pouch. He chose the office position after he recovered. Jeezhus Krighst, can you blame him? By many regards, that man was dead. He is a walking miracle, that's all there is to it. He beat death, how, I don't know?????


Seriously, I could not believe the pictures of him recovering and then fully recovered. All I can say is Wow.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Nemo,

How'd you find out the information on the cause of the flash? Any word on what type of meter he was using?

I actually said something earlier in the thread about how strange it is that most rotation meters are Cat III. Given that I work in a utility environment, there's a lot of equipment where Cat III isn't kosher, and watching that is really making me rethink buying a Cat III sequence meter.... 

-John


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Big John said:


> Nemo,
> 
> How'd you find out the information on the cause of the flash? Any word on what type of meter he was using?
> 
> ...



If you watch the video closely, you can see the meter next to the switchgear.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Big John said:


> Nemo,
> 
> How'd you find out the information on the cause of the flash? Any word on what type of meter he was using?
> 
> ...


 
I had chatted with his wife via email John 'bout a year afterwards. Eventually I heard from Donnie. That vid was yanked from YouTube for quite a long time. There was talk of doing something more than just that video, then things went quiet. I haven't talked to either one of them since.


EDIT: Sorry John, to answer your question it was a GreenLee motor rotation sequencer. I'd have to go back through my notes on the model #.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

76nemo said:


> That's a big reason why I think electricians are very taken granted for. We're not there to plant flowers. As many times as Donnie has used that tester for that function, one of the resistors let go in the tester and blew a puff of carbon onto the bus.


 
That's what happens when a cocky, full of sh-t "electrician" is given too much responsibility. I'm making this assumption based on all the dumbasses I've come across that make up their own version of electrical theory... "I've been doin' this for years......".


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

This one looks nice: http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/phaserotation/9040.htm


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

CFL said:


> That's what happens when a cocky, full of sh-t "electrician" is given too much responsibility. I'm making this assumption based on all the dumbasses I've come across that make up their own version of electrical theory... "I've been doin' this for years......".


 
Donnie was in over 25 years. I don't by any means take your statement into consideration. He made a mistake, and it almost took his life. He wasn't some cocky electrician that did something ignorantly. If you want to talk theory, Donnie had a point. A motor rotation sequencer would work on phase testing sequence, but it was not the proper tool. The man damn near died. Don't come aboard and try to cut him down.


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

I have the older AEMC model PMR-1. It’s rated CAT III, 600V and has nice large heavy plastic insulated alligator clips. They just recently discontinued this model, but it’s still available from a few places online.
It’s been replaced by the new AEMC model 6609.

PMR-1: http://www.myaemcstore.com/p630/aemc_pmr-1_phase_and_motor_rotation_meter.php

6609: http://www.myaemcstore.com/p8032/aemc_6609_rotation_meter.php


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