# Multiple Machines Help



## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Looking at a job with roughly 60 machines each needing (1)208, 20 amp,3 phase and 1 same at 30 amps to each machine. This means (2) 3-pole circuits per machine, not to mention a general use 120 receptor circuit. Owner thinks bus duct will be too expensive ( this is the current setup), is there another alternative besides bus duct or sh%t load of panels for all these drops? Using the existing bus duct would be the best solution but it will cause too much down time, based on what he thinks. Any advice is appreciated.


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## MasterE (Dec 31, 2011)

Are the Machines Grouped, are they inline, Is it the old style buss duct or the I-line style. Do the Machines have Starter panels ? Need a little more info.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Machines are inline, not sure what old style bus is, and some( maybe 1/3 rd ) have starters/ discos on machine. Problem with tapping some machines is that everything is S.O cord and twist lock plugs. Any idea how much a 10' section of 100 amp busway costs new?


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I take it that the 20 and 30 amp receptacles are required to be dedicated?

How many panels would you need? Could drop a panel at strategic locations and pipe out of them for your receptacles. What does each machine draw for wattage? Maybe get by with 5-6 panels?


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> I take it that the 20 and 30 amp receptacles are required to be dedicated?
> 
> How many panels would you need? Could drop a panel at strategic locations and pipe out of them for your receptacles. What does each machine draw for wattage? Maybe get by with 5-6 panels?


I CAME UP WITH 9 42 space panels which just seems ridiculous. Being that i never purchased bus duct, I'm not sure what would be more cost effective. Looking at around total of at least 300' of duct, then all those disconnects(2 per machine + fuses) , ouch! Any thoughts.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

If you do use the buss duct would you still be mounting the nine panels? If not, how are you going to protect the receptacles. As far as cost, could take the price of nine feeders and breakers compared to the bus duct, taps and one large breaker.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I doubt you are going to meet the tap rules and be able to tap your buss with 30 and 20 amp discos?


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## electroman (Apr 10, 2009)

Are all of these machines expected to run continuously and at the same times?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

A perfect application for cable tray. :thumbsup:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> A perfect application for cable tray. :thumbsup:


Not having worked with cable tray much. How would you get out of the top of the distribution gear and into the tray? Bring multiple conduits out and turn them into the tray? 

Probably a lot less time intensive to use cable tray. How does the price compare to conduit?


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Cable tray would still require 9 panels. Ceiling height is roughly 10' , not sure if that matters. I was thinking each panel at 100 amps with 7 30 amp circuits and 7 20 amp circuits. These machines make little spring-like parts. Each machine has an oven that the parts drop into. Ovens are what draw the 30 amps, machine 20. Judging by the way the machine works intermittently, I'd say it doesn't pull many amps, but that's all guess work. I'm going back tomorrow to overlook things.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> I doubt you are going to meet the tap rules and be able to tap your buss with 30 and 20 amp discos?


Not understanding that entirely, could you explain please?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Not having worked with cable tray much. How would you get out of the top of the distribution gear and into the tray? Bring multiple conduits out and turn them into the tray?


 Couple methods. Run the tray down the wall to the panel and bring the tray cables out of the top of the panel with gland-type cable connectors, or set a big pull box above the panels and come right in the back of the pull box (from the trays) with 4" nipples from the pull box to the tray. Coming in a pull box first lets you skin the jackets off somewhere in the pull box to save gutter space in the panels. 



nitro71 said:


> Probably a lot less time intensive to use cable tray. How does the price compare to conduit?


You more than make up for the additional cost of tray cable in the labor savings. You'll still normally do a pipe drop to each machine from the tray. See if your supply house will do the pricing workup for you based on a floorplan or something. I bet they will.


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## Hairbone (Feb 16, 2011)

I had a rep show me the line of meltric plug and discuss the NFPA70E and how osha is looking at manufacturing Some interesting literature to think about: http://www.meltric.com/html/cord-drop-connectors.html


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Hairbone said:


> I had a rep show me the line of meltric plug and discuss the NFPA70E and how osha is looking at manufacturing Some interesting literature to think about: http://www.meltric.com/html/cord-drop-connectors.html


That looks like BIG money. Even a regular pin and sleeve arrangement is in the hundreds of dollars.


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## Hairbone (Feb 16, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> That looks like BIG money. Even a regular pin and sleeve arrangement is in the hundreds of dollars.


 
YUUUUPPP:laughing:

Figured i would throw it out there for food for thought:laughing:

Like your tray idea:thumbup:


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Couple methods. Run the tray down the wall to the panel and bring the tray cables out of the top of the panel with gland-type cable connectors, or set a big pull box above the panels and come right in the back of the pull box (from the trays) with 4" nipples from the pull box to the tray. Coming in a pull box first lets you skin the jackets off somewhere in the pull box to save gutter space in the panels.
> 
> You more than make up for the additional cost of tray cable in the labor savings. You'll still normally do a pipe drop to each machine from the tray. See if your supply house will do the pricing workup for you based on a floorplan or something. I bet they will.


Never ran cabletray before either, can you make splices in it?


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

You have a situation with no cheap and easy solution. I would think that buss duct would be cost effective, but still expensive, and possibly, the quickest method, but there are several variables involved that need consideration for any method.. 

Cable trays would need to be quite large to accommodate the volume of cables in a code compliant arraignment. 

Feeders from somewhere, to multiple panels would be time consuming and pricey.

I would do some take offs and cost comparisons.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

GEORGE D said:


> Never ran cabletray before either, can you make splices in it?


Sort of. The most typical method, perhaps, is to fasten a splice box to the bottom of the cable tray, pull both ends of the cable to be spliced down out of the rungs, and splice in the box.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

varmit said:


> You have a situation with no cheap and easy solution. I would think that buss duct would be cost effective, but still expensive, and possibly, the quickest method, but there are several variables involved that need consideration for any method..
> 
> Cable trays would need to be quite large to accommodate the volume of cables in a code compliant arraignment.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you pretty much nailed it, there is no cheap way out. And from what I'm coming ip with, bus duct does seem like the best solution yet. Now I'm just waiting to hear back from my supplier with a quote. Hopefully all will pan out.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

GEORGE D said:


> Yeah, you pretty much nailed it, there is no cheap way out. And from what I'm coming ip with, bus duct does seem like the best solution yet. Now I'm just waiting to hear back from my supplier with a quote. Hopefully all will pan out.


The nice thing about bus duct is that they can rearrange the lines 'till their heart's content, and the infrastructure will still accommodate whatever they do.

The bad thing about bus duct is getting a scissor's lift, getting in PPE, de-energizing the bus plug, verifying that it's dead.... every time you want to put the machine in a zero energy state to work in the control panel. For this reason, many machine manufacturers are starting to put the machine disconnect in a separate enclosure from the control panel.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

GEORGE D said:


> Not understanding that entirely, could you explain please?


 
Sounded like you were thinking of tapping a buss somehow and coming off it for each receptacle. Lets say the feeder for the buss is .. 1200 amps? and you tap it with a 30 amp disco, doubt that meets any tap rule.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Sounded like you were thinking of tapping a buss somehow and coming off it for each receptacle. Lets say the feeder for the buss is .. 1200 amps? and you tap it with a 30 amp disco, doubt that meets any tap rule.


Sounds more, to me, like maybe you don't know what bus duct is?


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Sounds more, to me, like maybe you don't know what bus duct is?


I've worked with some of it. Installed tap boxes onto the duct run. Then come off it. Not something you would install smaller disconnects off of though.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> I've worked with some of it. Installed tap boxes onto the duct run. Then come off it. Not something you would install smaller disconnects off of though.


Then a whole new world is about to be opened up to you! :laughing:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Then a whole new world is about to be opened up to you! :laughing:


Always good to pick up new wiring methods.:thumbsup:


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## electroman (Apr 10, 2009)

Would there be anything wrong with running a 50 amp feeder to each machine, and then tapping that feeder with (2) 30 amp disconnects? That would cut your panels down to half. 
Still need to know if these all run at once and what the connected load is. The service could need beefing up, especially if they all start up at once.


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## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Not having worked with cable tray much. How would you get out of the top of the distribution gear and into the tray? Bring multiple conduits out and turn them into the tray?
> 
> Probably a lot less time intensive to use cable tray. How does the price compare to conduit?


 
In the plant I worked in, everything was run from the Mcc's out to the machine areas with cable tray & not Buss Duct. Buss duct was only used from the main feeders to the mcc's & DC drive rooms etc & never out in the field.....

A main cable tray was run out to the machine area & then smaller cable trays were run off of that Main if mulltiple cables were needed, or Conduit from the main if only a few runs were needed.............
Unistrut was usually mounted underneath the tray to support the conduit.......


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Always good to pick up new wiring methods.:thumbsup:


Think of a bus duct as just a panel that is really long and thin. Even if you have a 4000 amp busduct or panel it is perfectly acceptable to install a 15 amp overcurrent device on it or in it as the case may be.


Marc may have the idea, maybe 3 groups of 3 panels with cable tray and tray cable as the wiring method out to the machines.

We recently did a very large supermarket and we used a combination of cable tray, tray cable and bus ducts.

You can see the foot print of it here. http://g.co/maps/vjf37


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Run a trough, like an auxiliary gutter. Drop from trough to machine with conduit and pull THHN. at the supply side, use larger tubs like 72 or 84 circuit instead of 42. mount as many panels as you need, run a gutter above and connect the trough to the gutter. This is another option...trough can be cut to size and all the fittings needed are readily available. This may be cheaper than tray and traycable.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

cdnelectrician said:


> Run a trough, like an auxiliary gutter. Drop from trough to machine with conduit and pull THHN. at the supply side, use larger tubs like 72 or 84 circuit instead of 42.


Interestingly that would have been a violation until recently. The NEC had a 42 circuit limit for a single panelboard for decades, it was recently removed.

To get around this we would often run one feeder to two or three adjacent panelboards with the labeling be something like 'LP1 Section 1' LP1 Section 2 etc. with the circuit numbers running continuously.

Now that limit is gone but I do not know the availability of 84 circuit panelboards at this time here in the US, 


I like wireway but derating of the conductors would quickly become an issue, basically for wireway we can have 30 current carrying conductors before severe derating requirements (45%, for 30 conductors, 31 to 40 conductors 40%, more than 40 conductors 35% can really add cost quickly


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Interestingly that would have been a violation until recently. The NEC had a 42 circuit limit for a single panelboard for decades, it was recently removed.
> 
> To get around this we would often run one feeder to two or three adjacent panelboards with the labeling be something like 'LP1 Section 1' LP1 Section 2 etc. with the circuit numbers running continuously.
> 
> ...


Interesting, I did not know you were limited to 42 circuit panels....that's kinda dumb! As for the wireway and de-rating of the conductors, you are correct it probably would be a little expensive for the wire but still cheaper than bus duct I would think. If he can't get anything larger than a 42 circuit tub than it might just make more sense to mount them close to the machines and group them.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Interestingly that would have been a violation until recently. The NEC had a 42 circuit limit for a single panelboard for decades, it was recently removed.
> 
> To get around this we would often run one feeder to two or three adjacent panelboards with the labeling be something like 'LP1 Section 1' LP1 Section 2 etc. with the circuit numbers running continuously.
> 
> ...


You can get adapters to install QO breakers in an I-Line Panel, and probably get a few hundred circuits in there. :laughing:


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## nick.pei (Jun 15, 2009)

In regards to 84 cct tub. Is Eaton available to you?


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Ok, went back to job today and realized each 30 amp and 20 amp 3 pole drops actually feed 2 machines. This cuts my circuits in half, but still is a lot. What I've come to conclusion is bus duct is still the answer. Owner has no objection with used equipment and I've gotten some excellent prices. My question is can I drop directly out bottom of bus disco or would this require additional support for each disco? Also, is there a height clearance in general for bus duct? I'm going to dive into that section of NEC now and see what i come up with. If I can drop out directly like i think I can, this would make a nice easy install once trunk lines are in.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

GEORGE D said:


> Ok, went back to job today and realized each 30 amp and 20 amp 3 pole drops actually feed 2 machines. This cuts my circuits in half, but still is a lot. What I've come to conclusion is bus duct is still the answer. Owner has no objection with used equipment and I've gotten some excellent prices. My question is can I drop directly out bottom of bus disco or would this require additional support for each disco? Also, is there a height clearance in general for bus duct? I'm going to dive into that section of NEC now and see what i come up with. If I can drop out directly like i think I can, this would make a nice easy install once trunk lines are in.


Sorry to join in here this late howver if you are still in planning stage.

When you make the layout for the buss duct work keep the height uniform much as possible and make a note to make sure you brace them properly not only stright vertically but ya have to think of horztonal movement as well so that something you have to think about.

For working space on the buss drop area IIRC still the same 30X30 inches unless either one of two guys correct this for me.

Now for the drop cord itself I rather make addtional support indepent of the busdrop disconnect switch for a good reason. ( you may have to check with your local codes / FM requirement on this. ) but for some of very small drop cord it may can be hooked up direct to the buss drop disconnect switch. 

As far for used equiment like used bussway or what?? I am not getting this one clear on that part.

Merci,
Marc


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

nick.pei said:


> In regards to 84 cct tub. Is Eaton available to you?


Yes and all other makers but are the Canadian versions available here yet?


I suspect not as I don't see any being installed yet.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

cdnelectrician said:


> Interesting, I did not know you were limited to 42 circuit panels....that's kinda dumb!


 I think the NFPA finally realized that it was ridiculous code section. I have read it had it's origins in a fire that started in a panel board that killed many.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> Sorry to join in here this late howver if you are still in planning stage.
> 
> When you make the layout for the buss duct work keep the height uniform much as possible and make a note to make sure you brace them properly not only stright vertically but ya have to think of horztonal movement as well so that something you have to think about.
> 
> ...


Yes, used busway and all associated plug etc.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

GEORGE D said:


> Yes, used busway and all associated plug etc.


 
George., 

I am not sure if you are famauir with Megger tester if not it will be a good time to get it up to the speed on this due you will be getting a used busway.

Make sure you are not missing any parts and check it thru very carefull I know it will take couple extra minuites to check it out and run the Megger each busway parts or sections before you get them up in the building and do it again after you get done but before engerized for the first time run the megger again I know it may sound silly to waste time but you have to think for a second.

With 480 volts system there is not much leeway in there so that why I want to make sure you understand that part with Megger testing.

I have one new bussway failed on me before I even have a chance to engerized due my SOP always megger it first before I ever engerized it.

I am sure there will be other question you will be asking about the busway just holler one of us will help ya on this one.

Merci,
Marc


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Think of a bus duct as just a panel that is really long and thin. Even if you have a 4000 amp busduct or panel it is perfectly acceptable to install a 15 amp overcurrent device on it or in it as the case may be.
> 
> 
> Marc may have the idea, maybe 3 groups of 3 panels with cable tray and tray cable as the wiring method out to the machines.
> ...


 Are bus ducts typically installed with availablity to add and subtract circuits for machinary at will, or are special fabrications required? Is overloading a typical problem or are they usually installed with more than enough amperage to hold whatever the facility can throw at them?

Ive tried searching the forum but I cant find a good thread that breaks down the common applications of bus ducts and common practices of working with them. I could use a little help or a crash course on this subject.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Here is a little buss duct info. This is certainly not a complete thesaurus:

While there are some 100 and 200 amp "miniature" buss duct for special, limited applications, most standard BD is rated 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 2000 or 2500 amps. 

Installation is pretty strait forward: Install hangers capable of supporting several hundred pounds every 8 to 12 feet. Most BD comes with special brackets to attach the BD to the hanger rods. BD normally comes in 10 or 12 foot lengths. Weight, per section, will vary from 150-200 pounds for 400 amp up to damn heavy for the larger ampacities. Add 10 to 12 disconnects and the drop cables or conduits, and you see why the supports need to be healthy.

Modern buss duct normally has built in splicing hardware, such that tightening one bolt connects all of the buss bars, in one section, to the buss bars in the next section. ( No, I don't mean all three phases shorted together.)

BD is usually installed in a strait line, but 90 degree fittings, both vertical and horizontal are available.

To "tap" the BD, to make a drop to equipment, a plug-in disconnect is installed at one of the little door covered connection points, located about every 1 1/2 to 2 feet on either side of the BD. Per current safety rules, and good safe practices, it is required that the BD not be energized when installing disconnects (These are commonly called "buss plugs).

I hope this helps a little. You can check out most any of the major electrical equipment manufacturers web site for info.

Good luck on your project. Remember, there is never a good, fast AND cheap method.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

varmit said:


> Here is a little buss duct info. This is certainly not a complete thesaurus:
> 
> While there are some 100 and 200 amp "miniature" buss duct for special, limited applications, most standard BD is rated 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 2000 or 2500 amps.
> 
> ...


Great info!!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

varmit said:


> While there are some 100 and 200 amp "miniature" buss duct for special, limited applications, most standard BD is rated 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 2000 or 2500 amps.


Going to have to disagree somewhat, 100 and 200 amp versions are gaining ground quickly in data rooms, and large retail. You can find them up the the roof deck at Home Depot and Lowes.

Here is an example at a Supermarket


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

We often install bus duct in large office buildings with horizontal sections supplying vertical sections supplying more horizontal sections.

A common application would leave the service gear in the basement and run up vertically through electrical rooms on several floors and ultimately supplying switchgear and elevators on the top mechanical floor.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

I was mainly addressing the OPs questions in relation to industrial BD applications. 

I could see the usefulness, of the low ampacity BD for large retail stores- lots of change and move flexibility. I would think that there would be an initial install time savings over pipe and wire for all of these loads?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

varmit said:


> I could see the usefulness, of the low ampacity BD for large retail stores- lots of change and move flexibility. I would think that there would be an initial install time savings over pipe and wire for all of these loads?


It seems a way to avoid burning up wall space with panels and keeping branch circuits reasonably close to the loads.

Here is an example of some old bus duct in a 14 story apartment building, notice how exposed the bus is behind the vents. Also lack of fire stopping between floors.




















We did a lot of remodeling in this building but never touched this bus duct, I think they installed it upside down.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> George.,
> 
> I am not sure if you are famauir with Megger tester if not it will be a good time to get it up to the speed on this due you will be getting a used busway.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot, I really do appreciate that type of attitude, so far everyone's been a help. My plans were to install 6 seperate rows of 100 amp bus duct, each with own 100 amp supply. This might sound dumb but like i said, I've gotten excellent prices. And yes, I absolutely planned on meggering everything just as you stated. Just to sort of explain the setup again, there is a total of 60 machines right now ( all essentially same exact) in 6 rows of 10 being fed by 2 seperate 200 amp bd's. Because of requested minimal down time and willingness to pay, customer wants smoothest transition to new facility as possible. With this 6 line install, I will have a direct drop above each line which will be an initial and future benefit as far as changes/add-ons go. I personally would've went with bigger amperage(although unecessary) bd but the pricing difference is crazy. Please let me know what you guys think and thanks again to all.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

GEORGE D said:


> Thanks a lot, I really do appreciate that type of attitude, so far everyone's been a help. My plans were to install 6 seperate rows of 100 amp bus duct, each with own 100 amp supply. This might sound dumb but like i said, I've gotten excellent prices. And yes, I absolutely planned on meggering everything just as you stated. Just to sort of explain the setup again, there is a total of 60 machines right now ( all essentially same exact) in 6 rows of 10 being fed by 2 seperate 200 amp bd's. Because of requested minimal down time and willingness to pay, customer wants smoothest transition to new facility as possible. With this 6 line install, I will have a direct drop above each line which will be an initial and future benefit as far as changes/add-ons go. I personally would've went with bigger amperage(although unecessary) bd but the pricing difference is crazy. Please let me know what you guys think and thanks again to all.


Not that I am planning to install or buy any BD any time soon, but just to feed my curiosity, did you have to find a special supplier for all the bus duct and assorted bus plugs? I cant imagine the local supply houses having any of this stuff or being able to supply it to you at a decent price.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Not that I am planning to install or buy any BD any time soon, but just to feed my curiosity, did you have to find a special supplier for all the bus duct and assorted bus plugs? I cant imagine the local supply houses having any of this stuff or being able to supply it to you at a decent price.


I just started looking around online and stumbled on several out of state used suppliers.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

GEORGE D said:


> Thanks a lot, I really do appreciate that type of attitude, so far everyone's been a help. My plans were to install 6 seperate rows of 100 amp bus duct, each with own 100 amp supply. This might sound dumb but like i said, I've gotten excellent prices. And yes, I absolutely planned on meggering everything just as you stated. Just to sort of explain the setup again, there is a total of 60 machines right now ( all essentially same exact) in 6 rows of 10 being fed by 2 seperate 200 amp bd's. Because of requested minimal down time and willingness to pay, customer wants smoothest transition to new facility as possible. With this 6 line install, I will have a direct drop above each line which will be an initial and future benefit as far as changes/add-ons go. I personally would've went with bigger amperage(although unecessary) bd but the pricing difference is crazy. Please let me know what you guys think and thanks again to all.


 
Thanks for your feedback on the infomation and with new infomation I can understand it more clear and I almost forgot to tell you but I think you allready aware with this due you have 208Y120 volt system in there.

If you going have any 120 volts load in there make sure you get 100 % rated netural bussbar I know many bussbars can have reduced netural rating so please watch the speces when you get them.

Varmit did address few key items so he did cover the base on them.

And I will mention along the way make sure you get the calberated toqure wench ( get one with clicker type ) and follow the manufacter tightening speces where the bussbar meet together. 

I know the new one I have work on before they were kinda like one time use double headed bolt so when you get to specfied toqure that first head will shear off the second one is used for remove or reinstalled but it have to use the toqure wrench.

Merci,
Marc


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> Thanks for your feedback on the infomation and with new infomation I can understand it more clear and I almost forgot to tell you but I think you allready aware with this due you have 208Y120 volt system in there.
> 
> If you going have any 120 volts load in there make sure you get 100 % rated netural bussbar I know many bussbars can have reduced netural rating so please watch the speces when you get them.
> 
> ...


This system is going to be 120/208, and I will check about 100% neutral. I will have no more then about 6 120 volt general recep circuits, does this still require 100% neutral?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

GEORGE D said:


> This system is going to be 120/208, and I will check about 100% neutral. I will have no more then about 6 120 volt general recep circuits, does this still require 100% neutral?


I am not super worry about the genral receptale ciruits but the main key isssue is the equiment set up due some will required netural in there so it will be wise to check the specs to make sure.

Merci,
Marc


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Your right but fortunately I've checked all equipment and none have neutral. The bd I'm looking at is 3 phase 4 wire, which I assume 4 th bus would be neutral and casing would-be grnd. I have yet to look deeper into bd specs but i defenitely will soon.


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