# utility providing egc



## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

do you know of any utilities that bond neutral and egc at xmfr and give customer egc and neutral?

im reading this article 
http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/neutral-ground-bonds-electrical-panels/

and it is discussing the installation


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Wiresmith said:


> do you know of any utilities that bond neutral and egc at xmfr and give customer egc and neutral?
> 
> im reading this article
> http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/neutral-ground-bonds-electrical-panels/
> ...


I ran into this conundrum recently. I had 5 wires coming from the utility xfrmr pad. Ground was bonded to neutral there. Inspector said it didn't matter and it had to be bonded at first means of disconnect. It was an older service, early 90's. I had disconnected the bond there but he questioned my intelligence so I put it back.

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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

Right now in saskatchewan our neutral bond for an overhead service is being done at the weatherhead to the utilities drop. The direction they want to head in the coming years is the bond at the transformer for all services. They will run quadplex ascr for single phase overhead and 4 wire direct burial usei for underground.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

Wiresmith said:


> do you know of any utilities that bond neutral and egc at xmfr and give customer egc and neutral?
> 
> im reading this article
> http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/neutral-ground-bonds-electrical-panels/
> ...


IMO that article is just plain wrong. The main bonding jumper is required to be installed at the service disconnecting means per 250.24(B).


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Mulder said:


> IMO that article is just plain wrong. The main bonding jumper is required to be installed at the service disconnecting means per 250.24(B).


If the utility changes things.... (hurray for this particular one incidentally) don't you think the NEC could change the wording in 250.24(B) ? Sure they can. 


Now my thoughts- good , its about time. I been saying it here for years they need to do that. So what? Yep.... They been following my posts and came to their senses. And................. further proof.......... macmikeman is always right! 


I've been telling you guys, but you just won't listen.................... :vs_laugh:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Why would you want to have an grounding electrode conductor not bonding to neutral in your panel and instead running all the way back to the XO in the utility transformer? Well for one thing, it will help the utility to track down a bad neutral connection real fast and prevent your neighbor from using your service as the return path when his neutral corrodes away. Yep, cause you won't have any continuity from your gec to your neutral any place at your dwelling. His either. So they will find his broken neutral someplace in the ashes of his burnt up dwelling, and not have to go looking for the problem all over the neighborhood. And the cows in your backyard will suddenly feel better and start giving you some unpasteurized good wholesome milk. And your wife and kids won't be getting shocked when they dip their big toe in the swimming pool. Cause the stray current will be gone from the terra firma. Madam Pele might even be pleased now and shut off the violent lava flow she has been angrily shooting into the back yards of the poor hippies and dope growers over there in Puna on the Big Island.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

If they do that then you would be required that split your grounds and neutrals just like a sub panel. 


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> Why would you want to have an grounding electrode conductor not bonding to neutral in your panel and instead running all the way back to the XO in the utility transformer? Well for one thing, it will help the utility to track down a bad neutral connection real fast and prevent your neighbor from using your service as the return path when his neutral corrodes away. Yep, cause you won't have any continuity from your gec to your neutral any place at your dwelling. His either. So they will find his broken neutral someplace in the ashes of his burnt up dwelling, and not have to go looking for the problem all over the neighborhood. And the cows in your backyard will suddenly feel better and start giving you some unpasteurized good wholesome milk. And your wife and kids won't be getting shocked when they dip their big toe in the swimming pool. Cause the stray current will be gone from the terra firma. Madam Pele might even be pleased now and shut off the violent lava flow she has been angrily shooting into the back yards of the poor hippies and dope growers over there in Puna on the Big Island.




I needed that laugh. Thank you!


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't see the utility co's investing $ in an unneccessary conductor any time soon.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If the utility provides the EGC, would you still be required to install the GES?


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Damn!!


Looks like the guy with the drsparky handles logged into both of this accounts just to be able to thank you twice mac. Impressive.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I thought it was common to run a ground ring around a utility pad mount transformer and they bond it to XO. At least that's where I think they land it. It's in their spec book on what they need. We do the ring and the pad, pull the wires and they terminate.


This doesn't mean you have to run an equipment ground into the building, or run the grounding electrodes out to the transformer. Here we pull the wires out to the utility transformer, and I have never pulled a ground.


The only ground I ever threw in a trench was to ground the rigid 90 if there was one at the beginning of the run going up a pole.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

splatz said:


> If the utility provides the EGC, would you still be required to install the GES?


yes its a seperate structure


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> If the utility changes things.... (hurray for this particular one incidentally) don't you think the NEC could change the wording in 250.24(B) ? Sure they can.
> 
> 
> Now my thoughts- good , its about time. I been saying it here for years they need to do that. So what? Yep.... They been following my posts and came to their senses. And................. further proof.......... macmikeman is always right!
> ...


i completely agree that will clean up circulating ground currents


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

cabletie said:


> I thought it was common to run a ground ring around a utility pad mount transformer and they bond it to XO. At least that's where I think they land it. It's in their spec book on what they need. We do the ring and the pad, pull the wires and they terminate.
> 
> 
> This doesn't mean you have to run an equipment ground into the building, or run the grounding electrodes out to the transformer. Here we pull the wires out to the utility transformer, and I have never pulled a ground.
> ...


the xfmrs need GES, that's not what were discussing. we are discussing the system only bonding the neutral to ground at one location

the old style of doing things required the neutral be bonded twice , once to transformer and another at the first disco, now they(some utilities) are only bonding at xfmr and sending a EGC with the service instead of just a neutral


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