# Commercial Service Replacement



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

My only experience with commercial services is a couple 120/208V 3ph single meter w/bypass I’ve done. 

I’ve been trying to break into larger services and heavier commercial work. 

I got my first larger service request today and it’s a straight out replacement only of just the metering side , so it’s a good situation for me to get acquainted with this work. 

I already got my quote from engineer for new equipment I’m just wondering if anyone sees anything from the photos that may require more than just an exact replacement.

POCO says no on the CT , yes on bypass 

The owner had to have the taps replaced a year ago and at the time the EC told him the entire enclosure should be raised by 2’ but I measured 31” to bottom of enclosed and 42” to center of lowest meter. 

Pipe is going into building to ground building steel but not in the ground for rods. 

It has an 800 amp tap box and (2) 4/0 feeds per phase so I’m figuring it’s only 400A 3ph service with 100A single phase disco per meter 

Maybe I’m looking to deep , but does anyone see an issue with the current install? Engineer quoted me for the identical replacement by Siemens










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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Do a load calculation first. That is only a 400 ampere service or maybe 450ish. Why do you think it needs replaced? Is the buss burnt?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Do a load calculation first. That is only a 400 ampere service or maybe 450ish. Why do you think it needs replaced? Is the buss burnt?




It has corrosion. Some of the breakers keep tripping on tenants. 

Regardless , owner simply asked please replace all of it... my answer = no problem 

Yes , owner thinks it’s 800A , but i realized it’s only 400-450 like you said , after seeing conductors. 

Not exactly sure why tap box rated 800A. I figured to replace with same specs. 


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> It has corrosion. Some of the breakers keep tripping on tenants.
> 
> Regardless , owner simply asked please replace all of it... my answer = no problem
> 
> ...


If he says replace it I say have at it. I might think about replacing the breakers and clean up the buss if it was one of my customers.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

WronGun said:


> It has corrosion. Some of the breakers keep tripping on tenants.
> 
> Regardless , owner simply asked please replace all of it... my answer = no problem
> 
> ...


I'd never bid a job like this blindly without taking some amp readings and doing a load calculation. 

Be pretty bad if it has some of the same problems with the new service.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I'd never bid a job like this blindly without taking some amp readings and doing a load calculation.
> 
> 
> 
> Be pretty bad if it has some of the same problems with the new service.




Good point, I’m going to get more info on each unit. I’d be surprised if it was being overloaded, it’s 6 very small garage units each with a single phase 100A panel, but no way to know for sure without calculating it. 


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

WronGun said:


> Good point, I’m going to get more info on each unit. I’d be surprised if it was being overloaded, it’s 6 very small garage units each with a single phase 100A panel, but no way to know for sure without calculating it.


**Some of the breakers keep tripping on tenants.**

It would be strange to have multiple bad breakers in an install like this and that would be crazy odds if at all possible.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I would give them a price it replacing existing equipment in kind....don't change anything just put new stuff in.



Give them 3 adder options

1 for increasing the service conductor size 
2 for adding 3 more 200 amp meters to the grouping if a tenant needs to upgrade their service in the future.
3 adding 3 phase 100a meter grouping to set.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Tonedeaf said:


> I would give them a price it replacing existing equipment in kind....don't change anything just put new stuff in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This non-EUSERC Service is using the six-throw rule. lain:


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

your right put in you price to add main breaker in the up sells


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Tonedeaf said:


> your right put in you price to add main breaker in the up sells


It's rotten from water leaking into it.
Remove and replace that setup is cheap enough for it not to be an issue.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Load calc first. Come up with a plan. Send over a proposal. Get the job. Do the work. 



Next!


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

I'd put a data logger on the ones which are tripping to find out what's going on that causes the trips. 

400A / 6 tenants in commercial spaces seems light to me.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I talked with the owner about his electrical demand and redesigned the service and bid to install a new 800amp Tap box and upgrade the meter stacks to 225A per position. Going to stay with 100A breakers and existing load-side conductors. 

This will give him the option to upsize downstream if needed by only having to swap the breakers of the new equipment and then upgrading load-sides. 

It seems that out of 2 other bids im the only one who proposed an upgrade rather than an exact replacement, I’m hoping that will put me at the top. At least now he can’t really compare apples to apples on my part. 

I informed him that units may need more power. 

Regardless, I would have to do it this way. I don’t have the manpower to upgrade the entire building in a day and these places can’t shut down. So we do the service and then upgrade each unit 1 at a time if needed. 

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