# 4" Square box instead of 1 or 2 gang



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

What a "true" one or two gang box. My guess is because when crews are roughing in buildings they have hundreds of boxes of 4 squares so that's what they use because it works fine. I don't even use a box in a studded wall, normally I'll just mount a mud ring and call it good


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

A 4 square with a plaster ring is cheaper than a steel 1 gang nail on.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

adonkle said:


> I work as an Audio-Video systems consultant and one odd standard I've observed occasionally is 4" or 4-11/16" square boxes (with 1 or 2 gang plaster rings) being installed instead of true 1 or 2 gang boxes. (All commercial construction) Trying to figure out why this might be an advantage for electrical contractors. Box volume isn't critical for our applications (typically only microphone or video jacks in the box, no power), and the final result is the same for the AV system. Anyone here have any thoughts on why it might be helpful from the EC perspective? Thanks,


 Generally with commercial construction we're dealing with concrete block walls , metal stud and Sheetrock walls etc. . A 4" square or 4 11/16 " square j box is already going to be used all over the project . It's easier to adjust for wall thickness too , with the right depth tile ring . It also helps is maintain out cubic inch requirements when it comes to box fill . Sort of a one size fits all approach and less things to worry about stocking . When it comes to things such as audio , video , thermostats , or any end user equipment we don't install , we put in whatever is spec'd . In most cases anything 1 or 2 gang gets a 4" square with a tile ring . Once you go past 2 gangs , now we get into gangable masonry boxes . Lots of times we won't do the arc work on a new job .that electrician will pay us to put a box and raceway in for him to use later .


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

In 20+ years in the trade, I have never (with the exception of masonry boxes and gang able switch boxes) roughed in anything but 4"sq boxes with the appropriate mud ring. With steel studs there are few alternatives. I would dare consider it the industry standard. It is not like residential with 1 and 2 gang "nail on" boxes. It's a totally different animal.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Most commercial specifies 3/4 conduit or some type of raceway.
I don't think they make a single gang box with 3/4 kos


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

These go with any commercial or resi job, and you can use the cheap 4sq's instead of buying the bracketed ones>>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N8bBhmDtE8

~CS~


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## Maple_Syrup25 (Nov 20, 2012)

Y'all use these things down there?







I don't do much commercial work, but when I do, I use these puppies as well as 4x4s


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

wcord said:


> Most commercial specifies 3/4 conduit or some type of raceway.
> I don't think they make a single gang box with 3/4 kos


:blink:


You've never seen a handy box with 3/4 KOs?


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

The number one reason I use 4 square boxes is for ease of terminating jacks etc. I can pull in and leave extra wire length in the box. Makes it nice not having to stand right against the wall. Then the bit of extra loops back in nicely.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

I worked for a company that only used 4" boxes with mud rings, instead of various different single gang and double gangs.

Supposedly they could the 4" boxes for cheaper than other boxes because they bought in such huge quantity.. and it would speed up work, because guys weren't always looking for different boxes or having to keep track of boxes and stock boxes. It was all 4" boxes. Easy peasy.

Helped with box fill too.. but that wasn't the point. It was MONEY.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Shock-Therapy said:


> :blink:
> 
> 
> You've never seen a handy box with 3/4 KOs?


I call them extra hacky boxes. 

Pulled a spec grade recep out of one that a maintenance monkey had fed in and out of with 3/4" sealtight with #10's inside. He had to hacksaw most of the threads off the fittings to make it all fit :laughing:


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

Now that there's funny.



Jlarson said:


> I call them extra hacky boxes.
> 
> Pulled a spec grade recep out of one that a maintenance monkey had fed in and out of with 3/4" sealtight with #10's inside. He had to hacksaw most of the threads off the fittings to make it all fit :laughing:


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

#1 reason is because that's what the spec calls for. Every data outlet calls for at least a 4x4 box with either a single or 2 gang plaster ring. Never seen a spec call for a single gang box for data in commercial.

Recently had a drywaller complain to me cause he had to patch every one. His guys didn't use a roto-zip and did a crappy job of cutting around them. :laughing:


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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

I have been on several jobs where the specs call for a 4-11/16" deep box and one 1" conduit stubbed into the ceiling for data and audio visual outlets. On occasion you will even see some that will want the same box with a 1-1/4" conduit stubbed out. 
It's just what the engineers spec.


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## Expediter (Mar 12, 2014)

A 4-11/16" box with a mud ring single or double, with a 1" conduit is sized for future expansion of an office space. yes, today you may only see one drop of network cable, coax or whatever, but next year when the space is moved around, There could be 25 network cables vying for space in that conduit.

The larger size box also can help with looping the wire and bending space for network cables. That way, if a drop doesn't cert correctly, it cannot be brought back to the specs for bending space.


As far as the 3/4" KO's in a single gang box, Steel city makes 3-1/4" deep mud boxes and old work boxes with them. Also I have seen a deep handi-box with a 3/4" KO, not sure if it was steel city though.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Ive never thought of using anything other than a 4 square or a 411 for commercial. Actually, I use a lot of them in residential too.


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## adonkle (Jun 10, 2014)

Interesting, thanks for all the responses! 

Do any jobs standardize on all 4" or all 4-11/16" boxes, just to simplify installation? 

Also, is it safe to assume the same square box sizes also apply to masonry boxes used on the job?


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## Expediter (Mar 12, 2014)

No, masonry boxes are generally deep and either ganged or welded boxes but come in single, double,triple, up to 6 yoke boxes. Usually welded boxes, with the device screw entering the box interior instead of outside like an old work. You do need to tape the face of the box to keep out the Crete tho.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Personally I only use 4x4s with mud rings for stud walls, never the single or two gangs, and never 4 11/16, and for ceiling JBs it's 4x4s for little stuff, then I move right on up to 8x8. I don't really like 4 11/16 because they're not that much bigger than 4x4s and it's another cover plate to stock. And as for 6x6, the cost difference between them and 8x8 is minimal and I find 6x6 a pain in the butt to deal with.


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