# I line breakers ABC CBA left side right side rotation



## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Huh. Ive never seen a CBA breaker. It's likely that the panel had all ABC breakers in it. So yes. That would be a problem.

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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> Huh. Ive never seen a CBA breaker. It's likely that the panel had all ABC breakers in it. So yes. That would be a problem.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


We just completed a job, and out of necessity, we move a breaker from RH side to LH side. One of the guys noticed the whole ABC thing. No problem as we were only connecting single phase loads out of a 3 phase panel. We decided to label it as CBA on the RH side for any future projects.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> Huh. Ive never seen a CBA breaker. It's likely that the panel had all ABC breakers in it. So yes. That would be a problem.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


It's possible you didn't notice but, the panel would have been labeled ABC on both sides, with the proper factory breakers installed.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Ive installed new I-line panels and haven't seen it. Sometimes the breakers come separately packaged and it doesn't matter where they are installed.

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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

On an I-line panel, if you move a 3 pole breaker from one side to the other, the phase sequence will be reversed top to bottom.

Suppose the incoming rotation is CW and all breakers are connected Black, Red and Blue top to bottom. 

The left side breakers will have CW rotation, the right side will be CCW. 

A properly connected panel will have Black, Red, Blue on the left and Blue, Red, Black on the right side. 

The pole labeled A is always A, same with B and C. The left side is 'right side up' while the right side is 'upside down'. 

This is true with single and 2 pole breakers as well.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Forge Boyz said:


> Huh. Ive never seen a CBA breaker. It's likely that the panel had all ABC breakers in it. So yes. That would be a problem.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


I've never seen one either, I've always connected the right side 'backward' since the breaker is 'upside down'.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

micromind said:


> I've never seen one either, I've always connected the right side 'backward' since the breaker is 'upside down'.


 and that's because of the way the breaker connects to the bus.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> and that's because of the way the breaker connects to the bus.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSo2cW4RowI


I wonder if it's legal to install or remove a breaker while the panel is energized or do we need to shut down the entire national power grid first? 

I've done quite a few of them hot over the last 29 years.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

micromind said:


> I wonder if it's legal to install or remove a breaker while the panel is energized or do we need to shut down the entire national power grid first?
> 
> I've done quite a few of them hot over the last 29 years.


Can you wear enough PPE to be safe if the worst happens? Never mind if a fault shuts down production.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

On an I-Line breaker, the load side phasing is always ABC, left to right, as viewed from the load side of the breaker. On the left side, it is ABC top to bottom. On the right side it is CBA top to bottom. The I-Line breakers normally are marked ABC, from the factory, on the breaker body and this is correct when used on either side. 

I don't deal with CH much, but a simple test would show their phase connections. 

Yes, we have all had one of those "did I check that" moments.


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## QMED (Sep 14, 2016)

Southeast Power;5201808
Question:
Pardon my ignorance.
If someone previously moved an ABC breaker from the left-hand side to the right side said:


> Yes you would then have to go Blue, red, black top to bottom to get CW rotation. Side question: what part of the code is he referencing in the video saying that it has to be ABC top to bottom?


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

I suspect that someone, when this was installed, marked everything on both sides of the panel BLK, RED, BLU from top to bottom and swapped leads somewhere to adjust rotation.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

QMED said:


> Yes you would then have to go Blue, red, black top to bottom to get CW rotation. Side question: what part of the code is he referencing in the video saying that it has to be ABC top to bottom?


I suspect it to be a manufacturing standard.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

varmit said:


> I suspect that someone, when this was installed, marked everything on both sides of the panel BLK, RED, BLU from top to bottom and swapped leads somewhere to adjust rotation.


I had a conversation with the electrician working with me. He noted the conductors on the right were labeled Blue Red Black and that he landed them in the new panel color for color, black red blue.

My only heartburn now is that if the utility side of both of the mains, 1 of 1, and 2 of 2, were terminated the same. 

Lower Left corner note Blue Red Black.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

You never know how some else may have installed something. Most folks never check actual phasing. They just swap wires until everything works. Not many even have a rotation meter. It is a very useful tool that can save a lot of work.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I have ran into that once a while but not too often but just enough to be alert of reversed connection on right side.

sometime the model number on the breaker can give you a clue especially with suffix lettering mention CBA or CAB coneration to be aware it is reversed of normal pattern. yuh it the same with two pole single phase or corner grounded delta system.


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

varmit said:


> You never know how some else may have installed something. Most folks never check actual phasing. They just swap wires until everything works. Not many even have a rotation meter. It is a very useful tool that can save a lot of work.


In the facility I inherited last year, I've found some panels have phase rotation notes scribbled on them, and a surprising number of them have multiple contradictory notes. Do I pay attention to the sharpie or the pencil? The phasor diagram or the terminal:color chart? Two different arrow circles going different directions? 

I gave up trying to keep track of things logically and now just swap wires around until everything works -_-


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Jarp Habib said:


> In the facility I inherited last year, I've found some panels have phase rotation notes scribbled on them, and a surprising number of them have multiple contradictory notes. Do I pay attention to the sharpie or the pencil? The phasor diagram or the terminal:color chart? Two different arrow circles going different directions?
> 
> I gave up trying to keep track of things logically and now just swap wires around until everything works -_-


Don't do that to a HVAC scroll compressor, because, it can be damaged.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

I don’t have my NEC code book handy but there used to be a requirement that said phasing shall be “ABC top-to-bottom, left-to-right, and front-to-back.”

So wouldn’t the top left and top right phase of a panel board both be “A” phase?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Eaton and panelboard should never be mentioned in the same sentence


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

bill39 said:


> I don’t have my NEC code book handy but there used to be a requirement that said phasing shall be “ABC top-to-bottom, left-to-right, and front-to-back.”
> 
> So wouldn’t the top left and top right phase of a panel board both be “A” phase?


There is no requirement for marking wires at all (unless there are more than one voltage present)


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

bill39 said:


> I don’t have my NEC code book handy but there used to be a requirement that said phasing shall be “ABC top-to-bottom, left-to-right, and front-to-back.”
> 
> So wouldn’t the top left and top right phase of a panel board both be “A” phase?





sbrn33 said:


> There is no requirement for marking wires at all (unless there are more than one voltage present)


Art 408.3(E) only applies to the busbars (2014 NEC).
https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2...ds-panelboards-and-industrial-control-panels/


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Bird dog said:


> Don't do that to a HVAC scroll compressor, because, it can be damaged.


I have seen condensate pump spin the impeller right off and break due to running backwards, in about 2 seconds just bumping the motors.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

just a cowboy said:


> I have seen condensate pump spin the impeller right off and break due to running backwards, in about 2 seconds just bumping the motors.


Saw a deep well pump unscrew itself of the pipe because it was running backwards, oops!
No rescue rope on it either, but pulled it up by the wires somehow.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> There is no requirement for marking wires at all (unless there are more than one voltage present)


Respectfully, we’re talking about phase arrangement not labeling wires.


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