# Roughing process



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

A sub called me into run some future conduit sleeves in a mansion being built in Southampton yesterday. The EC on the job is way behind the ball. He ran all his wires without having installed boxes and cans first. He also didn't install a hardwired SD system stating the alarm 
System covers it, maybe true. They want to start sheetrock on Wednesday, I was asked if we'd be willing to help finish rough. So far we got along fine , the builder was impressed with us. I fine with it but anticipate friction from the other EC. Would u step into this? At best we can get future large scale homes to wire.

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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

bad scenario. anything can happen, including not getting paid.

secondly, who runs cable without boxing ? (not an EC). someone is fibbing.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wildleg said:


> ...secondly, who runs cable without boxing ?....



+1 .


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

No way in heck I would work beside the other "ec." I would offer to finish the job and not without a through meggering


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

How do you get a permit for someone else's job?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

They basically want use to help and work independently there . Its still the other ECs job, we would be there paid by builder to insure place in ready for rock in the next few days. At the rate the EC and his crew are working they have a couple weeks.

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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

wildleg said:


> bad scenario. anything can happen, including not getting paid.
> 
> secondly, who runs cable without boxing ? (not an EC). someone is fibbing.


They are east end , licensed electricians, seabreeze.

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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

You are a bright guy. I say go for it. Me, I don't like working in situations like that. Too uncomfortable.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> They are east end , licensed electricians, seabreeze.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710T


so whose license are you working under, not the builders?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't think I would go anywhere near it. It would be all my job or nothing.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

360max said:


> so whose license are you working under, not the builders?


Their own license, issued in 08. I'm more interested in getting invited to bid on future work. I can put my crew together to show a well oiled machine at work, bust out 3x more than the current machine is operating and, prove my company is more qualified and equipped to handle large scale mansions. This mansion is two properties away from Jerry Seinfeld.

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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Bring in McClary...half a day, tops. 

Anyway, it's just another job Shock. Just iron clad your contract.

The current EC may be in over his head and welcome some help, but both you guys agree to leave the guns and knives at home.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

3xdad said:


> Bring in McClary...half a day, tops.
> 
> Anyway, it's just another job Shock. Just iron clad your contract.
> 
> The current EC may be in over his head and welcome some help, but both you guys agree to leave the guns and knives at home.


I see a window, the builder has a contract to finish house by june. He asked the EC to work Saturday, the EC stated he doesn't pay OT. The builder offered to pay OT difference to the help. There are unfinished ends everywhere . I believe he under bid the job, 600 amp UG copper service ti MDP, 6 panels, 200 amp genny, IG concrete pool, fire sprinkler pump, 20k sq ft minimum 12 wire. $265k

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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

so the guy, somehow, has a license.

who the f runs wire without boxing first ? 
I'm tellin you somethin aint right.

I can understand you wanting the work, but somethin aint right.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

wildleg said:


> so the guy, somehow, has a license.
> 
> who the f runs wire without boxing first ?
> I'm tellin you somethin aint right.
> ...


They are clowns.....

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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

3xdad said:


> Bring in McClary...half a day, tops.
> 
> Anyway, it's just another job Shock. Just iron clad your contract.
> 
> The current EC may be in over his head and welcome some help, but both you guys agree to leave the guns and knives at home.


If I teamed up with McCleary we'd rule the Hamptons. I'm also a good friend of the senior lead electrical inspector for Southampton, used to work for him.

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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I see a window, the builder has a contract to finish house by june. He asked the EC to work Saturday, the EC stated he doesn't pay OT. The builder offered to pay OT difference to the help. There are unfinished ends everywhere . I believe he under bid the job, 600 amp UG copper service ti MDP, 6 panels, 200 amp genny, IG concrete pool, fire sprinkler pump, 20k sq ft minimum 12 wire. $265k
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710T


The builder needs to give the ec a failure to perform notice right away. Otherwise, he could wind up still having to pay him even though you finish the job.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The builder needs to give the ec a failure to perform notice right away. Otherwise, he could wind up still having to pay him even though you finish the job.


I'm gonna catch news tomorrow, the carpentry sub is endorsing us for all future work.

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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Consider the current EC purposely left the boxes out because the GC has a habit of closing up before the EC has finished his work. It sounds kind of strange that the GC wants to start rocking on Wednesday, but is contacting another EC on the Sunday before.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

How the he11 does it pass rough-in inspection then?


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

480sparky said:


> How the he11 does it pass rough-in inspection then?


That job is nowhere close to rough inspection.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

IslandGuy said:


> Consider the current EC purposely left the boxes out because the GC has a habit of closing up before the EC has finished his work. It sounds kind of strange that the GC wants to start rocking on Wednesday, but is contacting another EC on the Sunday before.


Thanks was accidental......not the case. Those mansions rent for $250k a month during the summer. The job has been going on for a year, the gas guys were there looking to run the generator. Of course wires aren't even run. There are two kinds of electricians, the kind that prewire all their boxes and the kind that shove cable in the box all rolled up. I'm the kind that make them up on the rough. This guy isn't. You're from long island, what kind are you?

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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

With your luck, the other EC will be a liberal :whistling2:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Ty Wrapp said:


> With your luck, the other EC will be a liberal :whistling2:


But the home owner must definitely be a republican.....for some that alone would be grounds for dismissal.

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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I'll do mop ups but the old guy has to go first.


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## Nisat (Aug 5, 2013)

As you said you might you get chance to bid on future job. That will be nice.Did you discuss the warranty with bulider


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

I take over jobs all the time here,the GC can have the EC permit removed at anytime. But must inform him in writing and it is seldom contested. But I have also worked to help other ECs to finish up if they were behind also, it usually turns into an ally rather than an adversary later on. I find it takes some of the heat off of them and they are more often than not, thankful for that.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

Hello, again...how does he get rough-in without the neutrals and grounding made up? Here it is an expectation that the neutrals and grounding be made up at the time of rough-in. What are the requirments there? 

Pjholguin



Shockdoc said:


> Thanks was accidental......not the case. Those mansions rent for $250k a month during the summer. The job has been going on for a year, the gas guys were there looking to run the generator. Of course wires aren't even run. There are two kinds of electricians, the kind that prewire all their boxes and the kind that shove cable in the box all rolled up. I'm the kind that make them up on the rough. This guy isn't. You're from long island, what kind are you?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710T


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Most commercial contracts from gcs contain a clause stating that they retain the right to supplement labor if the deem it necessary, i.e. behind schedule. This is nothing out of the ordinary, and it happens all the time...or at least the threat to supplement labor.

Before I would supplement labor (as a GC) I'd send a 24 hour notice to man the job (properly) when that did not happen, I'd remove the sub from the job. No way I would want to deal with two of the same subs on a job...sounds like a nightmare.

Get the GC to replace the other sub and hire you to finish, not supplement.

I am assuming the relationship between the existing EC and the GC is already strained and the EC knows it...maybe why he is doing everything bassackwards


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Crooks work with crooks.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I'm gonna catch news tomorrow,


Got an update for us?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

3xdad said:


> Got an update for us?


No news, I'm sure that idea didn't fly well with the other EC. I anticipate many errors concerning the wiring on that job. On one side I'm better off not getting involved because I'd be the first to get blamed by them. 

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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

...what happens when the EC screws up something you wired and than sheet rockers close up, tape and paint? The EC logs everything you worked on. You than device only to discover something is not right, watch yourself, you could get burned, and badly.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Yeah, it doesn't seem that the EC can pull off the job schedule. Maybe you'll get the next one in full.:thumbsup:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

3xdad said:


> Yeah, it doesn't seem that the EC can pull off the job schedule. Maybe you'll get the next one in full.


Builder did say I'd be hearing from him with a smile.

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## Somewhere_401 (Apr 7, 2014)

Shockdoc said:


> Builder did say I'd be hearing from him with a smile.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710T


--

As long as it is not in the form of a letter from his lawyer suing your because of damage done by the other guy to work you did.

It may be wise to spend several minutes taking digital photos of everything you have done, just to document it.

I hope it works out in your favour, but sometimes you have to cover your rear end


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Somewhere_401 said:


> --
> 
> As long as it is not in the form of a letter from his lawyer suing your because of damage done by the other guy to work you did.
> 
> ...


That came on a positive note, we came in, did what was requested, no bs, in less than 4 hours.o

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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> Builder did say I'd be hearing from him with a smile.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710T


They always do that when they're screwing you! :laughing:

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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Started a demo of a 4500 sq ft home yesterday for another GC I got recommended to by that builder. This is the baffling part. This is s perfectly sound hi end home built in 1990. They are gutting the entire house, want it completely rewired with additional elevator and back up generator. This GC had us remove the chandeliers and hi end fixtures, remove and kill power to all outlets and branch circuits only leaving HR boxes for temp power. He wants us to return after demo guys remove all the sheetrock to remove all wiring and install temp strings and receptacles. The wiring in this house is perfect, but I will do what is asked of me.

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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Service heavy up or just add an ATS?

That'll be a nice scrap run.


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## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

GC is behind schedule because the sub is behind...the sub that underbid...the low-bid sub...could be great with future work.
What could possibly go wrong?

Hopefully the GC isn't thinking he can use the same low-bid sub and have you come in for 4 hours to get it on schedule and he'll STILL be under your future bid. 

Personally I don't finish other ECs work without clearly defined agreements and the other EC off the job. I would start it with a megger. It would also take a good cash flow.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

3xdad said:


> Service heavy up or just add an ATS?
> 
> That'll be a nice scrap run.


Its a tract house style service back to back in the garage, I want to place the ATS where the existing panel is and drop down and 90 across to the basement and install 2 40 circuit panels. 

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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

I would never trust a builder. It's NEVER worked out. But maybe it's just me.


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## Nisat (Aug 5, 2013)

I wouldn't agree any more


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## Morales95 (Jan 15, 2015)

Business relationship means contract in hand and a specific scope of work from all parties


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