# Reconnecting a live electrical service.



## TOOL_5150

That vid had appeared here a few times. The riser and meter socket are on the corner of the building, and I believe he disconnects the drop from the house and connects it to some 6/3 SO cord that goes to a spider box.

For the record, I do it all the time. Ill be doing it on monday.

~Matt


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## s.kelly

I saw the broadcast last year or whenever it was new. I agree it has been posted on here,so a search might get you what you are looking for.

70E etc aside, I think it was very irresponsible to have shown that to the general public. They will expect it from electricians and it might give an idiot HO some ideas.

If an educated electrician chooses to takes risks that is one thing, but the public has no idea what that really means.


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## HARRY304E

Joe Tedesco said:


> Did anyone see the episode of This Old House that was broadcast on PBS on Friday, November 6th?
> 
> I was told that the electrician was cutting and reconnecting a live electrical service. He said that he was safe because he was standing on a fiberglass ladder! :001_huh:
> 
> If there is a link or YouTube video showing this please let me know.


We do this all the time joe it has allways been this way.

The poco does not come out to cut the power for over head services..

If you ask this is what you will get...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## doubleoh7

I NEVER do it. I'm not a lineman. I don't pay myself enough to take risks like that. All it takes is one fumble to have an arc flash in front of your face. And, your on top of a ladder.


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## Shockdoc

I've probably reconnected 100,000 services at this point in my life. I had only used gloves when i was a helper back in the 80's. I once had to tie in a parallel 400 amp service off an aluminum ladder without gloves in my 20's. Still didn't catch a shock. The right hand needs to be aware of what the left hand is doing..


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## Skipp

Shockdoc said:


> I've probably reconnected *100,000 services* at this point in my life. I had only used gloves when i was a helper back in the 80's. I once had to tie in a parallel 400 amp service off an aluminum ladder without gloves in my 20's. Still didn't catch a shock. The right hand needs to be aware of what the left hand is doing..


 Even if you did one every day of the week, for 40 years straight. You would only be at 14,600. Nice try!


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## B4T

That is the way it is done around here also.. you don't call the POCO..


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## BBQ

HARRY304E said:


> We do this all the time joe it has allways been this way.
> 
> The poco does not come out to cut the power for over head services..


Strange, we seem to get them to come out.


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## BBQ

B4T said:


> you don't call the POCO..


Because you are lazy and don't plan.:laughing:


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## Joe Tedesco

*Electrical Safety Ignored!*

none here


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## Shockdoc

Skipp said:


> Even if you did one every day of the week, for 40 years straight. You would only be at 14,600. Nice try!


That's why I used the phrase ," probably". Unlike you I don't have time in my life to analyze others and calculate direct numbers that don't mean anything.:whistling2:


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## Zog

TOOL_5150 said:


> That vid had appeared here a few times. The riser and meter socket are on the corner of the building, and I believe he disconnects the drop from the house and connects it to some 6/3 SO cord that goes to a spider box.
> 
> For the record, I do it all the time. Ill be doing it on monday.
> 
> ~Matt


So you wear PPE?


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## Shockdoc

Joe Tedesco said:


> *Incredible video!* Please look at this one now and remember that while it is true that many still work hot that it is wrong and will not get your family any insurance benefits!
> 
> What MECA Chapter is this electrician a member of in Massachusetts?


I'd bet the farm that much of this stuff is brought on by the insurance institutes to increase profits.


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## sbrn33

No POCO here either. Just did one yesterday, temporary H crimps then the POCO come back in a week or 2 and installs their own crimps. Commercial or 3 phase and we usually have the POCO shut it down and reconnect.
Scott


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## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> Strange, we seem to get them to come out.


Really.. since when do they come out for an over head service change?:blink:


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## Bkessler

I have cut 100s of live services in, none with gloves and many with a metal razor knife in bare hands. I've been shocked a couple times, done them in the rain. I consider myself safe because I take off my wedding ring. I don't understand what the big deal is.


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## BBQ

HARRY304E said:


> Really.. since when do they come out for an over head service change?:blink:


When you call them and ask them to?

The company I work for does not allow us to work things hot unless it is allowable by OSHA and it is not allowable by OSHA for electricians to tie in a service hot.


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## BBQ

Bkessler said:


> I have cut 100s of live services in, none with gloves and many with a metal razor knife in bare hands. I've been shocked a couple times, done them in the rain. I consider myself safe because I take off my wedding ring. I don't understand what the big deal is.


Death, injury, large fines, being fired .......... other than that not a big deal. :laughing:


Basically I decided awhile ago that I am not putting myself at risk for someones convenience.


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## Bkessler

Everything is relative, I'd never run with scissors or do anything else stupid like that.


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## BBQ

Bkessler said:


> Everything is relative, I'd never run with scissors or do anything else stupid like that.


Do whatever the heck you want if you are self employed. :thumbsup:


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## Skipp

Shockdoc said:


> That's why I used the phrase ," probably". Unlike you I don't have time in my life to analyze others and calculate direct numbers that don't mean anything.:whistling2:


 
You don't have time in your life? 

You have posted over 3,000 times in one year! You have nothing, but time! 
What's there to really analyze? You make it too easy. Am I the only one here who see's through your BS?


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## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> When you call them and ask them to?
> 
> The company I work for does not allow us to work things hot unless it is allowable by OSHA and it is not allowable by OSHA for electricians to tie in a service hot.


Which POCO is that?:blink: 

I have one to do tommorrow I'll call them and see what i can get,
I'm sure i will get the same anwser...:laughing:

So you never cut in an over head service hot in this state? 



> The company I work for does not allow us to work things hot unless it is allowable by OSHA and it is not allowable by OSHA for electricians to tie in a service hot


I'll bet real money they did not have that policy 5 to 10 years ago.


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## BBQ

HARRY304E said:


> So you never cut in an over head service hot in this state?


Many back in the 1980s.



> I'll bet real money they did not have that policy 5 to 10 years ago.


I have worked for two ECs since 1997 and both have had strong 'no hot work' policies in place and it is only getting tougher.


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## BBQ

Skipp said:


> Am I the only one here who see's through your BS?


No you are not.

He is half troll, half fool.


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## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> Many back in the 1980s.
> 
> 
> 
> I have worked for two ECs since 1997 and both have had strong 'no hot work' policies in place and it is only getting tougher.





> it is only getting tougher


Thats good i am all for it..


When is the POCO going to catch up to the times.?.:blink:


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## B4T

BBQ said:


> Because you are lazy and don't plan.:laughing:


No.. I just don't like the extra work trying to schedule a disconnect and reconnect..

If I was lazy.. I would not be looking for more work to do..:blink:

We do things differently than you and it doesn't make my way wrong..

The POCO even supplies us with tap connectors for free..

If they didn't want us to touch their equipment, they would of made a big stink by now..

The whole world does not revolve around how you run your jobs..


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## BBQ

B4T said:


> No.. I just don't like the extra work trying to schedule a disconnect and reconnect..


LMAO 

_I'm not lazy, I just don't like to do stuff_

You make me laugh so much. :thumbsup:



> We do things differently than you and it doesn't make my way wrong..


For a self employed person I will agree with you, there is no law or standard you would violate by working it hot. 

If you have an employee work it hot _you are doing it wrong_ because you are breaking federal rules. That is not an opinion it is just the truth.


> The POCO even supplies us with tap connectors for free..
> 
> If they didn't want us to touch their equipment, they would of made a big stink by now..


That has nothing to do with the OSHA requirements and the crap storm that you would be in if an employee got hurt doing it.



> The whole world does not revolve around how you run your jobs..


That is a fact, damn good thing too because I would fire anyone bury PVC boxes. But as you are self employed and would not be missed keep on doing what you have been doing. :laughing:


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## B4T

BBQ said:


> That is a fact, damn good thing too because I would fire anyone bury PVC boxes. But as you are self employed and would not be missed keep on doing what you have been doing. :laughing:


So you wouldn't miss me.. that hurt..


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## farlsincharge

Standard procedure
1. kill the main.
2. pull the meter
3. put on leather linesman gloves (optional depending on how I feel that day)
4. cut and tape conductors
5. unhook wedge grip
6. throw drop onto ground

7. remove old mast, conduit, meter etc and install new
8. reconnect drop to new mast and make connections using insulink connectors
9. install meter and seal

POCO's are useless, If I had to wait around for them to come hold my hand I'd be in the food bank line.


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## Shockdoc

Skipp said:


> You don't have time in your life?
> 
> You have posted over 3,000 times in one year! You have nothing, but time!
> What's there to really analyze? You make it too easy. Am I the only one here who see's through your BS?


Free time spent well, not trolling others and analyzing them. You are just a complete dumbass, but i like your kind, you raise my self esteem . After all I could have grown up a ******** idiot like yourself.


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## Shockdoc

BBQ said:


> LMAO
> 
> _I'm not lazy, I just don't like to do stuff_
> 
> You make me laugh so much. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> For a self employed person I will agree with you, there is no law or standard you would violate by working it hot.
> 
> If you have an employee work it hot _you are doing it wrong_ because you are breaking federal rules. That is not an opinion it is just the truth.
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with the OSHA requirements and the crap storm that you would be in if an employee got hurt doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> That is a fact, damn good thing too because I would fire anyone bury PVC boxes. But as you are self employed and would not be missed keep on doing what you have been doing. :laughing:


 We'll have a PIG roast for you bob, I 'll find one with three chins to memorialize you when you die. You won't need to get electricuted, you'll die of diabetes all on your own.:laughing:


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## Shockdoc

There are many blind folks to the obvious, Big Business, government needs money, insurance companies want to keep money. The stupid will insist otherwise but it's not about safety or well being, it's about fines and revenue. The government could care less if you live or die, they are only interested in your money , and how much they can make off you, your employer and big business insurance companies.


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## TOOL_5150

Zog said:


> So you wear PPE?


Ill be honest, probably not the level of PPE required to do so.


~Matt


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## TOOL_5150

farlsincharge said:


> Standard procedure
> 1. kill the main.
> 2. pull the meter
> 3. put on leather linesman gloves (optional depending on how I feel that day)
> 4. cut and tape conductors
> 5. unhook wedge grip
> 6. throw drop onto ground
> 7. remove old mast, conduit, meter etc and install new
> 8. reconnect drop to new mast and make connections using insulink connectors
> 9. install meter and seal
> 
> POCO's are useless, If I had to wait around for them to come hold my hand I'd be in the food bank line.


Thats exactly what I do, except #6. Only once did i have absolutely nothing to tie the drop to, so I had to lower it all the way to the ground. Laying it on the ground is definitely the last choice.

~Matt


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## robnj772

Shockdoc said:


> . After all I could have grown up a ******** idiot like yourself.


 
Talk about living in glass houses.

Your the biggest "******** idiot" on here.


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## Pulled Pork

Shockdoc said:


> We'll have a PIG roast for you bob, I 'll find one with three chins to memorialize you when you die. You won't need to get electricuted, you'll die of diabetes all on your own.:laughing:


Did someone say pig roast???


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## Pulled Pork

HARRY304E said:


> Which POCO is that?:blink:


Just because the poco gives you the permission and material to do it, does not make it right. As has been pointed out many times, an employee of a company cannot splice in live service conductors without running afoul of labor laws. Yes, most will continue to break them, and that means electricians will continue to die on the job.


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## Skipp

Shockdoc said:


> Free time spent well, not trolling others and analyzing them. You are just a complete dumbass, but i like your kind, you raise my self esteem . After all I could have grown up a ******** idiot like yourself.


 LOL, please explain how I am a complete dumbass? Then how about explain the retarted idiot part? 
I am not the one who gets in trouble with the law every time I turn around. What does that make you, a genius? I would never return a roll of wire after stealing half it first. I wouldn't hit someone in the head when they are not looking. My wife isn't a drunk. I could go on and on. Do you really want to get into a flame war with me? 

I am glad I can help you boost your self esteem. I'll give you that, you have very high self esteem. Right up there with that ego.


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## doubleoh7

BBQ said:


> Do whatever the heck you want if you are self employed. :thumbsup:


 
I'm self employed and I won't do it, ever. I deal with three different utilities and NEVER have a problem scheduling a disconnect and reconnect. They have always showed up for the reconnect when promised and I have always been ready for them. I do not always get to pick the day, however. Sometimes I may want to disconnect on a Tuesday and reconnect on a Wednesday, but I may have to wait until Thursday and reconnect on Friday. It just depends on their schedule. We always work it out.


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## RIVETER

Joe Tedesco said:


> Did anyone see the episode of This Old House that was broadcast on PBS on Friday, November 6th?
> 
> I was told that the electrician was cutting and reconnecting a live electrical service. He said that he was safe because he was standing on a fiberglass ladder! :001_huh:
> 
> If there is a link or YouTube video showing this please let me know.


It is done, as others have said, all the time. However, it is very important to remember that a fiberglass ladder will only protect you from HOT to GROUND. You must insure that you do not become a CIRCUIT between the hot and the neutral. AT all times, watch where your hands and elbows are.


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## pudge565

I love how he cuts the neutral first. Se then he would be the only path to ground. Not only that but I hope he had the main off first.


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## Shockdoc

Skipp said:


> LOL, please explain how I am a complete dumbass? Then how about explain the retarted idiot part?
> I am not the one who gets in trouble with the law every time I turn around. What does that make you, a genius? I would never return a roll of wire after stealing half it first. I wouldn't hit someone in the head when they are not looking. My wife isn't a drunk. I could go on and on. Do you really want to get into a flame war with me?
> 
> I am glad I can help you boost your self esteem. I'll give you that, you have very high self esteem. Right up there with that ego.


And you will remain an empty minded fool who lacks experiences of life. You will only ignorantly know the one thing you do and nothing else. yes, simple people like you do make me feel better.


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## JohnR

BBQ said:


> The company I work for does not allow us to work things hot unless it is allowable by OSHA and it is not allowable by OSHA for electricians to tie in a service hot.





BBQ said:


> For a self employed person I will agree with you, there is no law or standard you would violate by working it hot.
> 
> If you have an employee work it hot _you are doing it wrong_ because you are breaking federal rules. That is not an opinion it is just the truth.
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with the OSHA requirements and the crap storm that you would be in if an employee got hurt doing it.





Pulled Pork said:


> As has been pointed out many times, an employee of a company cannot splice in live service conductors without running afoul of labor laws.


All these have the same tone, would someone please stop spewing rhetoric, and quote these supposed laws? I am not familiar with any law prohibiting an electrician from tying in a service hot. If that was the case, then the POCO would be in violation each and every day. 

My state at least, has on our licenses UNLIMITED Journey Person. The state is IMO in effect saying that the employee is licensed to do ANY electrical work. Of course the employee would have to be trained in whatever work they are expected to do. 

The POCO here, allows JW to cut and reconnect Resi drops if they are under the employ of a Master, and Masters as well. There is NO reconnecting for commercial services. 
Thank you. 
PS, I am not trying to continue this argument between BBQ and Shockdoc


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## jza

Does anyone else think Joe "full of himself" Tedesco is annoying?


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## BBQ

JohnR said:


> All these have the same tone, would someone please stop spewing rhetoric, and quote these supposed laws?


http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9910



> 1910.333(a)(1)
> 
> "Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.
> 
> Note 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment, or removal of illumination for an area.
> 
> Note 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment.
> 
> Note 3: Work on or near deenergized parts is covered by paragraph (b) of this section.








JohnR said:


> I am not familiar with any law prohibiting an electrician from tying in a service hot. If that was the case, then the POCO would be in violation each and every day.


The rule I posted above applies to almost every employee in the United States regardless of the person being an electrician or not.




> 1910.5(a)
> 
> Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, the standards contained in this part shall apply with respect to employments performed in a workplace in a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Wake Island, Outer Continental Shelf lands defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, Johnston Island, and the Canal Zone.
> 
> 1910.5(b)
> 
> None of the standards in this part shall apply to working conditions of employees with respect to which Federal agencies other than the Department of Labor, or State agencies acting under section 274 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended (42 U.S.C. 2021), exercise statutory authority to prescribe or enforce standards or regulations affecting occupational safety or health.


However section if you go to this page http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9908 and read enough you find utility workers are not required to comply with 1910.333




JohnR said:


> My state at least, has on our licenses UNLIMITED Journey Person. The state is IMO in effect saying that the employee is licensed to do ANY electrical work. Of course the employee would have to be trained in whatever work they are expected to do.


The state can provide you with any license they want and it still does not change the Federal rule that prohibits employees from doing hot work.



JohnR said:


> The POCO here, allows JW to cut and reconnect Resi drops if they are under the employ of a Master, and Masters as well. There is NO reconnecting for commercial services.


And every time an employee of an EC does this they are violating Federal OSHA rules exposing the company they work for to large fines.


Maybe you should take an OSHA course?


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## B4T

jza said:


> Does anyone else think Joe "full of himself" Tedesco is annoying?


No.. he is doing just fine.. YOU are the annoying one.. :no:


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## HARRY304E

jza said:


> Does anyone else think Joe "full of himself" Tedesco is annoying?


 
With all due respect you are a stupid helper without much Electrical know how....go to the store and get a new pair of Pampers...


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## jza

HARRY304E said:


> With all doo respect you are a stupid helper without much Electrical know how....go to the store and get a new pair of Pampers...


Because how I act on this site is a direct reflection of how I am on the job.

You old idiots take the internet way too seriously, it's pathetic and hilarious!


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## B4T

HARRY304E said:


> With all doo respect you are a stupid helper without much Electrical know how....go to the store and get a new pair of Pampers...


He is from Canada.. I think they have Huggies up there.. :laughing:


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## jza

Huggies as well as a lower unemployment rate lmao


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## BBQ

jza said:


> Because how I act on this site is a direct reflection of how I am on the job.


I have no doubt you are douche bag at work as well.



> You old idiots take the internet way too seriously, it's pathetic and hilarious!


How pathetic does that make you? A young guy with nothing better to do than to act like a teenager on a web forum. I was out getting laid (or at least trying to) on Saturday nights when I was young.


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## HARRY304E

B4T said:


> He is from Canada.. I think they have Huggies up there.. :laughing:


LMAO...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## jza

BBQ said:


> I have no doubt you are douche bag at work as well.
> 
> 
> 
> How pathetic does that make you? A young guy with nothing better to do than to act like a teenager on a web forum. I was out getting laid (or at least trying to) on Saturday nights when I was young.


You're wrong.

Also, it's 10:30 dude, the night is young and I'm waiting on a ride. But thanks for your concern.


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## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> I have no doubt you are douche bag at work as well.
> 
> 
> 
> How pathetic does that make you? A young guy with nothing better to do than to act like a teenager on a web forum. I was out getting laid (or at least trying to) on Saturday nights when I was young.


*CIALIS ..Remeber after 4 hours call another hooker...:laughing:*


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## BBQ

jza said:


> You're wrong.


Keep telling yourself that. 



> Also, it's 10:30 dude, the night is young and I'm waiting on a ride. But thanks for your concern.


No one is concerned about you. :laughing:


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## jza

BBQ said:


> No one is concerned about you. :laughing:


Could have fooled me.


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## HARRY304E

jza said:


> You're wrong.
> 
> Also, it's 10:30 dude, the night is young and I'm waiting on a ride. But thanks for your concern.


 Your waiting for a ride..

A real man does not have to wait for a ride..He has control of were he goes at any time..


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## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> The only place he is going is down to his bed in Moms cellar to rub one out.


I hope he has some good mag's at least..:laughing::laughing:


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## RobTownfold64

Well, speaking of rubbing one out, Ill be back in 10 minutes...


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## jza

HARRY304E said:


> Your waiting for a ride..
> 
> A real man does not have to wait for a ride..He has control of were he goes at any time..


Thanks. DUI is illegal. More so than working live.


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## B4T

jza said:


> Also, it's 10:30 dude


I didn't know there were dudes up north.. :laughing:


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## TOOL_5150

jza said:


> Thanks. DUI is illegal. More so than working live.


Be a big boy and go drive....


~Matt


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## TOOL_5150

.... Right into a ditch.


~Matt


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## HARRY304E

RobTownfold64 said:


> Well, speaking of rubbing one out, Ill be back in 10 minutes...


 Do you feel better..:laughing::laughing:


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## TOOL_5150

RobTownfold64 said:


> Well, speaking of rubbing one out, Ill be back in 10 minutes...


Dont get a red rocket.

~Matt


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## RobTownfold64

HARRY304E said:


> Do you feel better..:laughing::laughing:


I don't Tug-n-Tell.


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## TOOL_5150

RobTownfold64 said:


> I don't Tug-n-Tell.


at the very least, I hope you Tug-n-wash-your-damn-hands


~Matt


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## RobTownfold64

TOOL_5150 said:


> Dont get a red rocket.
> 
> ~Matt


Do I want to ask...?


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## HARRY304E

jza said:


> Thanks. DUI is illegal. More so than working live.


If you are drunk you should stay home ...

A man does not get drunk and allow others to take care of them like a girl..:no:


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## TOOL_5150

RobTownfold64 said:


> Do I want to ask...?


Well, you see... if you get blueballs, and then decide to tug it for a long time.. you end up with a red rocket.


:blink:


~Matt


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## HARRY304E

RobTownfold64 said:


> I don't Tug-n-Tell.


Agreed..:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## B4T

RobTownfold64 said:


> Do I want to ask...?


Any questions..


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## wsntme

I find this topic interesting despite all the useless bickering and insults. I have a question though, if you are to cut it temp power as is shown in the video, do you risk getting in trouble for stealing power? I mean as long as that spider box is there they can use all the power they want and they have no meter to record it...

No flames necessary, just looking for some more insight. Thanks!


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## BBQ

HARRY304E said:


> A man does not get drunk and allow others to take care of them like a girl..:no:


Maybe jza needs someone to hold his hair out of his face while he is puking.


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## TOOL_5150

wsntme said:


> I find this topic interesting despite all the useless bickering and insults. I have a question though, if you are to cut it temp power as is shown in the video, do you risk getting in trouble for stealing power? I mean as long as that spider box is there they can use all the power they want and they have no meter to record it...
> 
> No flames necessary, just looking for some more insight. Thanks!


You bet. I wouldnt run it like that for more than a day. Anything else, and I would put it through a meter. No need for any additional trouble from the POCO.

~Matt


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## wsntme

TOOL_5150 said:


> You bet. I wouldnt run it like that for more than a day. Anything else, and I would put it through a meter. No need for any additional trouble from the POCO.
> 
> ~Matt


So unmetered power usage is something they notice rather quickly? Or something that may take some time for them to catch onto? Always wondered that as well. I don't get to see stuff like this doing commercial, the poco always does the dis/re connect.


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## TOOL_5150

wsntme said:


> So unmetered power usage is something they notice rather quickly? Or something that may take some time for them to catch onto? Always wondered that as well. I don't get to see stuff like this doing commercial, the poco always does the dis/re connect.


I bed you could run it like that for a few weeks without any problem - but once someone says something, or a meter reader comes by, then you will have some explaining to do.

It isnt traceable instantly. Except they will know something is up when you pull the smart meter.

~Matt


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## B4T

wsntme said:


> I find this topic interesting despite all the useless bickering and insults. I have a question though, if you are to cut it temp power as is shown in the video, do you risk getting in trouble for stealing power? I mean as long as that spider box is there they can use all the power they want and they have no meter to record it...
> 
> No flames necessary, just looking for some more insight. Thanks!


I have a receptacle connected to a old pair of car jumper cables that I connect to the POCO line when doing a service change..

Never has anyone stopped to "fine" me and the POCO guys have passed by and seen what was going on..

That is the way we roll here and I already know the Massachusetts guy does not..


----------



## TOOL_5150

B4T said:


> I have a receptacle connected to a old pair of car jumper cables that I connect to the POCO line when doing a service change..
> 
> Never has anyone stopped to "fine" me and the POCO guys have passed by and seen what was going on..
> 
> That is the way we roll here and I already know the Massachusetts guy does not..


Geez, even my extension cord has polaris connectors on it. :laughing:

~Matt


----------



## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> Maybe jza needs someone to hold his hair out of his face while he is puking.


:laughing::laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E

wsntme said:


> I find this topic interesting despite all the useless bickering and insults. I have a question though, if you are to cut it temp power as is shown in the video, do you risk getting in trouble for stealing power? I mean as long as that spider box is there they can use all the power they want and they have no meter to record it...
> 
> No flames necessary, just looking for some more insight. Thanks!


Yes the POCO can screw him good but they will never catch him..:laughing:


----------



## B4T

TOOL_5150 said:


> Geez, even my extension cord has polaris connectors on it. :laughing:
> 
> ~Matt


I can connect the same setup inside the MP when I am doing only a panel change..


----------



## TOOL_5150

B4T said:


> I can connect the same setup inside the MP when I am doing only a panel change..


whatever floats your boat. Seems like the alligator clips could fall off more easily than a solid connection.

~Matt


----------



## HARRY304E

TOOL_5150 said:


> whatever floats your boat. Seems like the alligator clips could fall off more easily than a solid connection.
> 
> ~Matt


 They are only connected for a few hours..


----------



## B4T

TOOL_5150 said:


> whatever floats your boat. Seems like the alligator clips could fall off more easily than a solid connection.
> 
> ~Matt


Never have... and I wrap the extension cord around the POCO line so there is no pressure on it..


----------



## TOOL_5150

HARRY304E said:


> They are only connected for a few hours..


Dont roll your eyes at me...
Yeah, but come time to the reconnect - the polaris connectors are already on the drop and ready to connect.

~Matt


----------



## B4T

TOOL_5150 said:


> Dont roll your eyes at me...
> Yeah, but come time to the reconnect - the polaris connectors are already on the drop and ready to connect.
> 
> ~Matt


We use FREE connectors supplied by the POCO for the final connection..


----------



## TOOL_5150

B4T said:


> We use FREE connectors supplied by the POCO for the final connection..


oh.. well our POCO sucks. The connectors go on the customers bill.. so it really doesnt mean a hill of beans to me either way.

~Matt


----------



## B4T

TOOL_5150 said:


> oh.. well our POCO sucks. The connectors go on the customers bill.. so it really doesnt mean a hill of beans to me either way.
> 
> ~Matt


If the POCO had a problem with us electricians doing the final connections, they would not be giving us the parts..

That tells you who is allowed to do what.. :thumbsup:


----------



## RobTownfold64

Alright guys, I'm back. No red rocket, all is well.


ETA: I use alligator clips (jumper cable sized) for temp power too.


----------



## TOOL_5150

B4T said:


> If the POCO had a problem with us electricians doing the final connections, they would not be giving us the parts..
> 
> That tells you who is allowed to do what.. :thumbsup:


Hey, Im not arguing that - ill be the first one to admit that I cut and reconnect drops all the time. That still doesnt make it right though.


~Matt


----------



## BBQ

B4T said:


> If the POCO had a problem with us electricians doing the final connections, they would not be giving us the parts..
> 
> That tells you who is allowed to do what.. :thumbsup:


First off, what the linemen do and what is 'official policy' are often far different things.

But even if the power company has a printed policy saying that you can work it hot ......... employees are still prohibited from doing so.


----------



## B4T

BBQ said:


> First off, what the linemen do and what is 'official policy' are often far different things.
> 
> But even if the power company has a printed policy saying that you can work it hot ......... *employees are still prohibited from doing so*.


I agree with you 100% :thumbsup:

That will never happen again.. :laughing:


----------



## amptech

BBQ said:


> First off, what the linemen do and what is 'official policy' are often far different things.
> 
> But even if the power company has a printed policy saying that you can work it hot ......... employees are still prohibited from doing so.


Are you suggesting that even employees of the PoCo cannot legally disconnect/re-connect hot?


----------



## guest

amptech said:


> Are you suggesting that even employees of the PoCo cannot legally disconnect/re-connect hot?


I don't think he is, but.......

BBQ and I had the same debate over at MH when this topic of service connects/disconnects came up. 

My position is this:

If the POCO guys can be trained to work hot properly and safely (remember that a very high percentage of their work is all done hot) then I see no valid reason why an electrician cannot be trained and/or certified to do so as well. 

The current OSHA regs prohibit it of course, but regulations/laws can and have been changed when appropriate. 

BBQ suggested there that the POCO may not be following the rules, but I disagree as they operate in a different manner than the average EC does. 

For example, it was suggested that the POCO should drop the transformer offline to do a reconnect...ok, let's look at that and see where there are some problems with that idea. 

First off, you have to now deal with a primary voltage disconnect, with all the hazards inherent in that. Or as per my next point, multiple primary disconnects have to be opened. 

In residential areas, at least here in So Cali, secondaries are built as laterals with multiple transformers feeding them, and with several customers on each lateral. Like it or not, right or not, the POCO is NEVER gonna interrupt power to several customers to do a connect/disconnect for ONE customer. 

Re-energizing a transformer (especially on a lateral) is risky. There is always the possibility of violent failure upon reenergization. On a heavily loaded lateral, I have seen where multiple crews were used to close in all the transformers at the same time to avoid seriously overloading a single unit. 

On larger services or in commercial installs however it is common for the POCO to kill power and that is the right thing to do based on the properties of those larger services. 

I have done hot disconnects and reconnects in the past and will do so in the future. I do not fear it, but respect it. I feel very comfortable in my abilities to do the job safely and with minimal risk. 

I will however refuse to work panels hot when there is not a need as per OSHA regs to leave it energized. If hot work must be done, all PPE and precautions are used/followed.


----------



## RobTownfold64

amptech said:


> Are you suggesting that even employees of the PoCo cannot legally disconnect/re-connect hot?


 Read post #46.
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f12/reconnecting-live-electrical-service-22070/index3/#post407990


----------



## BBQ

amptech said:


> Are you suggesting that even employees of the PoCo cannot legally disconnect/re-connect hot?


No, not at all.

What I was suggesting is just because the lineman hands B4T some connectors does not mean the official power company policy is to have ECs do the work themselves.


----------



## BBQ

mxslick said:


> BBQ suggested there that the POCO may not be following the rules, but I disagree as they operate in a different manner than the average EC does.


That is not what I am saying, I am fully aware that they are under different rules.

I am saying that what a lineman may tell us, or believes, is often diffrent then what the power companies written policies are.



> For example, it was suggested that the POCO should drop the transformer offline to do a reconnect...ok, let's look at that and see where there are some problems with that idea.
> 
> First off, you have to now deal with a primary voltage disconnect, with all the hazards inherent in that. Or as per my next point, multiple primary disconnects have to be opened.


Poor power distribution design is not the ECs problem.



> In residential areas, at least here in So Cali, secondaries are built as laterals with multiple transformers feeding them, and with several customers on each lateral. Like it or not, right or not, the POCO is NEVER gonna interrupt power to several customers to do a connect/disconnect for ONE customer.


We have areas like that here and yes, if you pay for their time they will shut it down. Of course it may take months for it to be arranged.




> Re-energizing a transformer (especially on a lateral) is risky. There is always the possibility of violent failure upon reenergization. On a heavily loaded lateral, I have seen where multiple crews were used to close in all the transformers at the same time to avoid seriously overloading a single unit.


They could provide a disconnecting means on the secondary side and I think zog has mentioned 70E is going to be applied to linemen as well so I think we will start seeing the designs changing.


----------



## guest

BBQ said:


> No, not at all.
> 
> *What I was suggesting is just because the lineman hands B4T some connectors does not mean the official power company policy is to have ECs do the work themselves.*


My thanks were used up so I am gonna say I agree with this 100%. :thumbup:


----------



## guest

BBQ said:


> No, not at all.
> 
> *What I was suggesting is just because the lineman hands B4T some connectors does not mean the official power company policy is to have ECs do the work themselves.*


I agree with this 100%.



BBQ said:


> That is not what I am saying, I am fully aware that they are under different rules.
> 
> I am saying that what a lineman may tell us, or believes, is often diffrent then what the power companies written policies are.


Very true, but here anyways the written policy does (did? I haven't seen the latest policy) allow the EC to do residential connects/disconnects. On commercial or industrial, overhead or padmount, the POCO is the ONLY one who can do the connects/disconnects if the lines/padmount are hot. 





BBQ said:


> Poor power distribution design is not the ECs problem.


Also true, but try explaining to your customer why they are still in the dark even though your work is done and ready for reconnect. Not saying it's right, but it is reality. 





BBQ said:


> We have areas like that here and yes, if you pay for their time they will shut it down. Of course it may take months for it to be arranged.


Who's gonna foot that bill? I can see the reaction of a resi customer: "Your service change is $2,500 for parts and labor, and $3,000 for the power company to drop and re-energize the lateral so we can connect your new service." :laughing: "Oh, and by the way, we'll be able to reconnect you in July." Ain't gonna happen. 




BBQ said:


> They could provide a disconnecting means on the secondary side and I think zog has mentioned 70E is going to be applied to linemen as well so I think we will start seeing the designs changing.


Now that would be the smart, right and safe thing to do...but until 70E forces that change it isn't going to happen. Heck, our local POCO can barely cover normal operations right now...remember the seagull damage thread? For the price of a set of cutouts that whole thing could have been avoided..but even on the rebuild they didn't add cutouts. 

As before, I concede you are right and that things should be as you say, but sadly, they are not, at least out here.


----------



## Big John

There are two different sets of standards: Generally, electricians fall under NFPA 70E and OSHA 1910 Subpart S. While utilities fall under IEEE NESC and OSHA 1910.269 of Subpart R.

I'm not a lineman, but because I work with a utility, we are permitted to do live work. Of course construction electricians can easily be trained to utility safety standards; I'm walking proof of that. But my experience is there is a world of difference in attitudes between the two fields:

Look at how much resistance there is from some members here to fire-resistant clothing, safety glasses, and insulated gloves. Those are absolutely basic PPE utility workers are expected to wear and nobody questions it: You do it or you're fired.

Once the construction industry makes safe work practices the same part of their culture then they can make an argument for being allowed to work hot. But when someone won't even take the most basic steps to protect themselves, it's kind of hard to accept it when they say they're qualified to regularly do energized work.

The video is a perfect example. Any one of our linemen caught bare-handing like that would be looking for a new job.

-John


----------



## 220/221

> It isnt traceable instantly. Except they will know something is up when you pull the smart meter.


Or when they see it on TV.


The guy is an idiot for doing it on camera.


----------



## egads

Of course he did it three years ago, this was a rerun.....


----------



## TOOL_5150

220/221 said:


> Or when they see it on TV.
> 
> 
> The guy is an idiot for doing it on camera.


LOL, well I wasnt talking about that douchebag, im talking about us.

~Matt


----------



## B4T

220/221 said:


> Or when they see it on TV.
> 
> 
> The guy is an idiot for doing it on camera.


I don't see why.. :blink:

LOTS of us do it that way and why hide the facts if they are true..

The guy talks funny.. that might be why some of you have "issues".. :whistling2::laughing:


----------



## BBQ

mxslick said:


> Very true, but here anyways the written policy does (did? I haven't seen the latest policy) allow the EC to do residential connects/disconnects.


I have no doubt that was or is true, 




> Also true, but try explaining to your customer why they are still in the dark even though your work is done and ready for reconnect. Not saying it's right, but it is reality.


The reality for me is I would subject to termination so the customer is going to sit in the dark as long as it takes.






> Who's gonna foot that bill? I can see the reaction of a resi customer: "Your service change is $2,500 for parts and labor, and $3,000 for the power company to drop and re-energize the lateral so we can connect your new service." :laughing: "Oh, and by the way, we'll be able to reconnect you in July." Ain't gonna happen.


It would happen if ECs stopped bending the rules to save a buck. Times change my friend and digging in you heels is a wasted effort. I am sure when the change from live front gear to dead front gear the ECs of the time bitched about how stupid it was. :laughing:





> As before, I concede you are right and that things should be as you say, but sadly, they are not, at least out here.


As long as people like yourself are not willing to change their mindset it will only take longer before things change.


----------



## BBQ

B4T said:


> LOTS of us do it that way and why hide the facts if they are true..


Lots of people smoke. Why don't they show it on TV?

Lots of people drink and drive. Why don't they show how to do it right on TV?

Lots of people cheat on their taxes. Why don't they give classes on TV about it?


----------



## Ponderosa electric

farlsincharge said:


> Standard procedure
> 1. kill the main.
> 2. pull the meter
> 3. put on leather linesman gloves (optional depending on how I feel that day)
> 4. cut and tape conductors
> 5. unhook wedge grip
> 6. throw drop onto ground
> 
> 7. remove old mast, conduit, meter etc and install new
> 8. reconnect drop to new mast and make connections using insulink connectors
> 9. install meter and seal
> 
> POCO's are useless, If I had to wait around for them to come hold my hand I'd be in the food bank line.


If we did that here in Arizona we would have our license pulled. I wouldn't put my men in that position and would fire them if I ever caught them. I add the usual wait time to the customers bid. I had an employer make me do it and he was a moron.


----------



## amptech

I was just asking for clarification from Bob. I am trained and certified for high voltage distribution and am a contractor for 3 PoCos in my area as well as being a licensed electrical contractor. I am also contracted by 4 municipalities who have their own electrical utility but employ no full-time electric utility maintenance people. I change transformers, install drops and UG laterals and repair storm damage to primary lines. There are several contractors similar to me who serve small municipalities as well as the PoCos in this capacity. I_t has never been suggested to me that what we do violates Federal law. I keep up with training and certification as well as safety procedures yearly._


----------



## amptech

I guess I should have added that I don't agree with the practice of every electrician disconnecting/re-connecting service drops. You should have the proper training, equipment and permission in writing.


----------



## B4T

BBQ said:


> Lots of people smoke. Why don't they show it on TV?
> 
> Lots of people drink and drive. Why don't they show how to do it right on TV?
> 
> Lots of people cheat on their taxes. Why don't they give classes on TV about it?


Are you drinking LI Iced Tea.. :blink::no:

Your choices for a debate are off the wall..


----------



## BBQ

B4T said:


> Are you drinking LI Iced Tea.. :blink::no:
> 
> Your choices for a debate are off the wall..


Explain why you think that.

How is it different?


----------



## BBQ

amptech said:


> I_t has never been suggested to me that what we do violates Federal law. I keep up with training and certification as well as safety procedures yearly._


*IF*, what you do falls into OSHA 1910.269 (and it sounds like at least some of it would) you are all set. :thumbsup: 

But very few ECs fall under 1910.269, almost all ECs are subject to 1910.333 and as such are extremely limited on the kinds of hot work that can be done. For the most part only troubleshooting can be done. No repairs or changes.


This is not some fantasy of mine, all the info is available online for free. 

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owastand.display_standard_group?p_toc_level=1&p_part_number=1910

You should also know that a first offense can cost $1,000 to $7,000, repeat offenses up to $70,000. 







Now ....... I suspect people are getting all serious here so to lighten things up .....


----------



## JohnR

Thats got to be the one that got away.


----------



## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> *IF*, what you do falls into OSHA 1910.269 (and it sounds like at least some of it would) you are all set. :thumbsup:
> 
> But very few ECs fall under 1910.269, almost all ECs are subject to 1910.333 and as such are extremely limited on the kinds of hot work that can be done. For the most part only troubleshooting can be done. No repairs or changes.
> 
> 
> This is not some fantasy of mine, all the info is available online for free.
> 
> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owastand.display_standard_group?p_toc_level=1&p_part_number=1910
> 
> You should also know that a first offense can cost $1,000 to $7,000, repeat offenses up to $70,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now ....... I suspect people are getting all serious here so to lighten things up .....


Nice teeth BBQ..:laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott

I didn't read this whole thing but it sounds like BBQ vs the world. :laughing:

Anyway, from utility Nstar handbook:

_5. Who performs permanent connections?
On all service upgrades or replacement of damaged service
entrance cables, the electrician makes permanent connections
on all overhead services at the weather head and on all
underground services in the terminal box._


----------



## Joe Tedesco

none here


----------



## BBQ

electricmanscott said:


> I didn't read this whole thing but it sounds like BBQ vs the world. :laughing:


Not like that at all.

I _really_ do not care how each of you works, not my problem.

But I do know the rules and I will share them with you all.



> Anyway, from utility Nstar handbook:
> 
> _5. Who performs permanent connections?
> On all service upgrades or replacement of damaged service
> entrance cables, the electrician makes permanent connections
> on all overhead services at the weather head and on all
> underground services in the terminal box._


And if it is live and an employee of an EC does it, the EC is subject to large fines regardless of the 'permission slip' from NStar. :laughing:

To each their own. :thumbsup:


----------



## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> Not like that at all.
> 
> I _really_ do not care how each of you works, not my problem.
> 
> But I do know the rules and I will share them with you all.
> 
> 
> 
> And if it is live and an employee of an EC does it, the EC is subject to large fines regardless of the 'permission slip' from NStar. :laughing:
> 
> To each their own. :thumbsup:





> Originally Posted by *BBQ*
> _We have areas like that here and yes, if you pay for their time they will shut it down. Of course it may take months for it to be arranged._


_And that is why we do cut over head services live because there is no extra money to pay for the POCO to come out..._


_



And if it is live and an employee of an EC does it, the EC is subject to large fines regardless of the 'permission slip' from NStar. :laughing:

Click to expand...

__The best way to fix that problem is to only hire from temp companys and not have Employees.._

_And defund OSHA...:laughing:_


----------



## JohnR

BBQ said:


> Not like that at all.
> 
> I _really_ do not care how each of you works, not my problem.
> 
> But I do know the rules and I will share them with you all.
> 
> And if it is live and an employee of an EC does it, the EC is subject to large fines regardless of the 'permission slip' from NStar. :laughing:
> To each their own. :thumbsup:


Well Bob, for my part thanks for what you posted. I appreciate it.
I finally had time that I could comprehend what I was reading, and yes I did know about this, but had the idea that it was just the company safety policy which was derived from OSHA. Not just direct quotes.
I had thought that the no live work was due to a couple of blowups that employer had. 

I am not sure if everyone knows that the guy on that video has been referred to as their Master Electrician on other shows. He would have only gotten in trouble for 70E rules IMO. Like having a spectator with in his flash zone on an aluminum ladder. At least it looked like it to me.

B4T, the reason he "talks funny" is because he is from the Boston area.


----------



## BBQ

HARRY304E said:


> _And defund OSHA...:laughing:_



Harry is there no end to the stupid things you will say?


----------



## electricmanscott

BBQ said:


> Harry is there no end to the stupid things you will say?


I'll vote yes. :laughing:


----------



## vos

amptech said:


> I was just asking for clarification from Bob. I am trained and certified for high voltage distribution and am a contractor for 3 PoCos in my area as well as being a licensed electrical contractor. I am also contracted by 4 municipalities who have their own electrical utility but employ no full-time electric utility maintenance people. I change transformers, install drops and UG laterals and repair storm damage to primary lines. There are several contractors similar to me who serve small municipalities as well as the PoCos in this capacity. I_t has never been suggested to me that what we do violates Federal law. I keep up with training and certification as well as safety procedures yearly._



How does one get that training and is it advisable to get it?


----------



## Dierte

I cut and re attach overhead services all the time around here. It's not that hard to do.


----------



## HARRY304E

BBQ said:


> Harry is there no end to the stupid things you will say?


Not yet...:laughing:


----------



## amptech

vos said:


> How does one get that training and is it advisable to get it?


One of my PoCos set it up for me years ago in order for me to be able to contract for them. It probably isn't too cost-effective for every EC but it was an opportunity for me that has paid off. 
As a side note, I don't disconnect/re-connect my own work "at will". I call and schedule it with the PoCo and on the rare occasion they can't come I receive permission to do it as a contractor for them. In the municipalities where I am the contracted utility line worker I still get a work order from the town before I cut or reconnect a drop when doing work for a customer.


----------



## Ponderosa electric

amptech said:


> I was just asking for clarification from Bob. I am trained and certified for high voltage distribution and am a contractor for 3 PoCos in my area as well as being a licensed electrical contractor. I am also contracted by 4 municipalities who have their own electrical utility but employ no full-time electric utility maintenance people. I change transformers, install drops and UG laterals and repair storm damage to primary lines. There are several contractors similar to me who serve small municipalities as well as the PoCos in this capacity. It has never been suggested to me that what we do violates Federal law. I keep up with training and certification as well as safety procedures yearly.


Sorry , I'm new to this posting on this site. I think I posted on wrong person. Sounds like your highly qualified to connect a simple drop. I wish some times that we were allowed in some cases but as I stated they would pull our license but as with all things everywhere you go things are different


----------



## TOOL_5150

Dierte said:


> I cut and re attach overhead services all the time around here. It's not that hard to do.


I did it today. :thumbup:

~Matt


----------



## Dierte

TOOL_5150 said:


> I did it today. :thumbup:
> 
> ~Matt


 And you're still alive to talk about it.:thumbup:


----------



## Mike D

I have a service upgrade scheduled for tomorrow. Power company is scheduled to disconect at 9AM, City inspection is scheduled for 12noon, Power company is scheduled for a reconect at 4PM (pending faxed in city inspection aproval letter).

Should go smooth as silk..........


----------



## Dierte

Mike D said:


> Should go smooth as silk..........


 Famous last words

On another note, what do you do if by chance you don't pass? Leave the customers in the dark for a day?


----------



## TOOL_5150

Dierte said:


> Famous last words
> 
> On another note, what do you do if by chance you don't pass? Leave the customers in the dark for a day?


Climb the ladder and hook it up yourself.

~Matt


----------



## Mike D

Dierte said:


> Famous last words
> 
> On another note, what do you do if by chance you don't pass? Leave the customers in the dark for a day?


 
Are you serious? 

It is a simple 200 amp, overhead house service.
Already met and spoke with inspector, all he wants to see for inspection is Meter, disconect, riser, 2 rods and main breaker turned off. A monkey could do it.

We will be installing the new ML panel in the basement while we are waiting for the power company to reconect.

This ain't my first rodeo.:whistling2:

A little pre-thought and scheduling goes a long way.


----------



## robnj772

Mike D said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> It is a simple 200 amp, overhead house service.
> Already met and spoke with inspector, all he wants to see for inspection is Meter, disconect, riser, 2 rods and main breaker turned off. A monkey could do it.
> 
> We will be installing the new ML panel in the basement while we are waiting for the power company to reconect.
> 
> This ain't my first rodeo.:whistling2:
> 
> A little pre-thought and scheduling goes a long way.


If this isn't your first rodeo why did you need to met and speak with the inspector? 

I would never even do the job if I had to rely on the POCO or the township inspector.

Be a man and cut and do your own connections.

A monkey could do it with the Poco 

A real electrician can do it without them


----------



## Dierte

Mike D said:


> This ain't my first rodeo.:whistling2:
> 
> A little pre-thought and scheduling goes a long way.


Never said it was just asking what IF?


----------



## Mike D

Dierte said:


> Never said it was just asking what IF?


If, We fix and go for inspection again.:thumbsup:


----------



## HARRY304E

Mike D said:


> I have a service upgrade scheduled for tomorrow. Power company is scheduled to disconect at 9AM, City inspection is scheduled for 12noon, Power company is scheduled for a reconect at 4PM (pending faxed in city inspection aproval letter).
> 
> Should go smooth as silk..........


So why is the poco doing that and are they charging you how much?


----------



## Mike D

robnj772 said:


> If this isn't your first rodeo why did you need to met and speak with the inspector?
> 
> I would never even do the job if I had to rely on the POCO or the township inspector.
> 
> Be a man and cut and do your own connections.
> 
> A monkey could do it with the Poco
> 
> A real electrician can do it without them


 
A real electrician?? You are grasping there pal.

I have cut and made the connections in the past, The POCO frowns on that in this city, therefore I will not.

I called and met with the inspector to ensure a predictive and productive day as it pertains to scheduling and recieving the city inspection.

I own this electrical company and do things the way I see fit. The way I see fit, is to do them safely and legally. My employees will not make POCO connections either.

You sir, can do as you feel with yours. 
No need to be an ass.:thumbsup:


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## Mike D

HARRY304E said:


> So why is the poco doing that and are they charging you how much?


That is the way they want it done. It is their drop.
No charge.


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## ratrod56

Did anyone notice they were stealing electricity hooking straight to drop. m And he cut the noodle first also a no-no. First to make last to break was how I learned it.


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## RobTownfold64

ratrod56 said:


> Did anyone notice they were stealing electricity hooking straight to drop. m And he cut the noodle first also a no-no. First to make last to break was how I learned it.


Yes, people did mention it earlier in the thread about not using a meter.

As for the order to cut the wires, altho it's good practice, in this instance when the meter is pulled it doesn't make any difference.


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## leland

HARRY304E said:


> _And that is why we do cut over head services live because there is no extra money to pay for the POCO to come out..._
> 
> 1) then this should be priced into the job,Just like the permit.Try this with a local Muni. Sudden problems and fines.
> 
> If it's ok with NSTAR-KeySpan- Ok with me. I won't try it with a small Muni though. They are VERY protective of their systems-
> 
> 
> 
> _The best way to fix that problem is to only hire from temp companys and not have Employees.._
> 
> _And defund OSHA...:laughing:_


We don't need OSHA, We got unions to protect us.:whistling2:


Run boyz run !!!!!!! :laughing::thumbup:


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## Shockdoc

leland said:


> We don't need OSHA, We got unions to protect us.:whistling2:
> 
> 
> Run boyz run !!!!!!! :laughing::thumbup:


 OSHA is just another Revenuer for the government.


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## HARRY304E

Shockdoc said:


> OSHA is just another Revenuer for the government.


 
And they should be defunded.


Along with the EPA...:thumbup:


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## Sparky3

Shockdoc said:


> OSHA is just another Revenuer for the government.


Have you ever taken an OSHA 10 or 30 hour course?


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## HARRY304E

Sparky3 said:


> Have you ever taken an OSHA 10 or 30 hour course?


 
No how about you..




OSHA Should be defunded IMO..


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## BBQ

HARRY304E said:


> OSHA Should be defunded IMO..


Harry, all kidding aside that makes you appear to be an idiot.

If you want to work under dangerous and slave like conditions just move to another country,


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## RobTownfold64

Harry, as a business owner, when you say something like that all you are doing is giving fuel to the union blowhards.


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## BBQ

Sparky3 said:


> Have you ever taken an OSHA 10 or 30 hour course?





HARRY304E said:


> No how about you..


Yes, I have taken an OSHA 30 and all most everyone of our employees has taken an OSHA 10.

Many GCs will not allow us to send men to the job site unless they have at least an OSHA 10 hour card.

Now before you go blaming the government for this understand this has more to do with insurance rates, lost time accidents and "Mod rates"

Read this link if you want to understand how mod rates effect your profits.

http://www.safetymanagementgroup.com/articles/Your-Experience-Modification-Rate.aspx

From the link



> Any company with an annual premium greater than $5,000 is subject to a premium modification rating. Base rates for premiums reflect the average risk likely to be incurred by companies within a given SEC code. Companies whose claims are average for their industry can expect an EMR of 1.0, but those with claims above the industry average will see their EMR jump above 1.0 and their insurance premiums rise accordingly. Conversely, a history of below-average claims will show up in a MOD rate below 1.0'a rate that translates into considerable savings in insurance costs.


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## Sparky3

RobTownfold64 said:


> Harry, as a business owner, when you say something like that all you are doing is giving fuel to the union blowhards.


Harry is a hack he probably start caring about safety when one his workers gets blasted.


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## RobTownfold64

Sparky3 said:


> Harry is a hack he probably start caring about safety when one his workers gets blasted.


I doubt Harry has any workers on the books. 

I'd like to ask Harry a question that I know he will avoid as he always does.

Harry, how has OSHA hurt you as a business owner? I'm not asking about other people or what you have heard, just about you and your business.


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## electricalwiz

HARRY304E said:


> And they should be defunded.
> 
> 
> Along with the EPA...:thumbup:



along with many others


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## BBQ

electricalwiz said:


> And they should be defunded.
> 
> 
> Along with the EPA..
> 
> 
> 
> along with many others
Click to expand...


Yeah, safety, clean air and water is stupid.


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## gold

Can't be too safe!! Wrap yourself in a giant leather condom with welding gloves and a battle helmet then call the poco and ask them to send an electrician to disconnect and reconnect.

Half of you wouldn't last a day in Jersey, here the poco just doesn't do DNR they literally tell you to call an electrician. So you either climb or your a plumber.

Do I wear PPE? If a wife beater and Nikes are PPE then hell yeah!!


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## electricalperson

ever since OSHA came into play a lot less people were getting killed on jobs. a lot of commercial jobs now require OSHA cards. I agree a lot of OSHA rules make our job harder but we have to follow them.


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## BBQ

gold said:


> Can't be too safe!! Wrap yourself in a giant leather condom with welding gloves and a battle helmet then call the poco and ask them to send an electrician to disconnect and reconnect.
> 
> Half of you wouldn't last a day in Jersey, here the poco just doesn't do DNR they literally tell you to call an electrician. So you either climb or your a plumber.
> 
> Do I wear PPE? If a wife beater and Nikes are PPE then hell yeah!!


If only we were as manly as you.

It is so good of you to be willing to risk your life so someone can watch Oprah on time without having to wait for the power company.:thumbsup:


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## amptech

gold said:


> Can't be too safe!! Wrap yourself in a giant leather condom with welding gloves and a battle helmet then call the poco and ask them to send an electrician to disconnect and reconnect.
> 
> Half of you wouldn't last a day in Jersey, here the poco just doesn't do DNR they literally tell you to call an electrician. So you either climb or your a plumber.
> 
> Do I wear PPE? If a wife beater and Nikes are PPE then hell yeah!!


If you are serious, this has to be one of the most blatantly ignorant posts I have ever read on this forum.


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## Mike D

BBQ said:


> If only we were as manly as you.
> 
> It is so good of you to be willing to risk your life so someone can watch Oprah on time without having to wait for the power company.:thumbsup:


 

I like it, "Think of your family":thumbsup:


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## electricalwiz

gold said:


> Can't be too safe!! Wrap yourself in a giant leather condom with welding gloves and a battle helmet then call the poco and ask them to send an electrician to disconnect and reconnect.
> 
> Half of you wouldn't last a day in Jersey, here the poco just doesn't do DNR they literally tell you to call an electrician. So you either climb or your a plumber.
> 
> Do I wear PPE? If a wife beater and Nikes are PPE then hell yeah!!



He is right, that is how the power company is here, if you call them and ask them to hook up the service they tell you to call an electrician


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## amptech

electricalwiz said:


> He is right, that is how the power company is here, if you call them and ask them to hook up the service they tell you to call an electrician


Then get trained, get certified and buy and use the proper PPE.


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## electricalwiz

I am a trained and certified electrician, I do not know what the big deal is, when I was an apprentice I was trained to work on things hot, we always treated everything as if it was hot, I am not saying anybody who does or does not work on something hot is a better or worse electrician, you should do what you feel confident and comfortable in doing.


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## BBQ

electricalwiz said:


> I am a trained and certified electrician, I do not know what the big deal is, when I was an apprentice I was trained to work on things hot, we always treated everything as if it was hot, I am not saying anybody who does or does not work on something hot is a better or worse electrician, you should do what you feel confident and comfortable in doing.


The big deal is that regardless of your training it is still a violation of Federal OSHA standards and if you are caught it could cost your employer a ton of money.

If you are the owner and have your employees work hot you are subject to large fines.

And finally ...... do you think all the electricians that have been injured or killed by working hot were less trained then you?


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## electricalwiz

BBQ said:


> The big deal is that regardless of your training it is still a violation of Federal OSHA standards and if you are caught it could cost your employer a ton of money.
> 
> If you are the owner and have your employees work hot you are subject to large fines.
> 
> And finally ...... do you think all the electricians that have been injured or killed by working hot were less trained then you?


I am the owner and have no employees. So you are telling me you follow every OSHA standard and every law that is in your state


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## Mike D

Joe Tedesco said:


> none here


 
Here we go again...........
Joe, why do you always go back and edit your threads? I have seen that you do this on every forum you are on, not a big deal, just curious.


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## amptech

electricalwiz said:


> I am a trained and certified electrician, I do not know what the big deal is, when I was an apprentice I was trained to work on things hot, we always treated everything as if it was hot, I am not saying anybody who does or does not work on something hot is a better or worse electrician, you should do what you feel confident and comfortable in doing.


Are you a trained and certified lineman?


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## HARRY304E

Sparky3 said:


> Harry is a hack he probably start caring about safety when one his workers gets blasted.



Really. says the man who needs the union to do his talking...


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## kinglew

4.2.6 Residential Overhead Service Upgrade
The Company has a program where available for only licensed electricians (as determined by the AHJ) to
have the option to disconnect and permanently reconnect a residential overhead service in lieu of scheduling
multiple appointments for the Company to perform the work. To do this, the following conditions must be met:
Residential single-phase overhead service of 200 amperes or less.
There is no change in the point of service location.
Service drop maintains minimum clearances according to Section 4.2.4 and the NEC.
The licensed electrician must make arrangements first by contacting the Company for the program available
in accordance with the Company’s applicable tariff. See the “Process and Information” section on obtaining
electric service and the inside front cover of this book. this is out local spec book for my local poco ny
https://www.nationalgridus.com/niagaramohawk/connects/index.asp


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## Shockdoc

I have a UG from OH service change next week, I'll run everything out , U guard up the pole nd then take the existing drop and temp it into my new UG feeders to avoid a return trip for the transfer. I can't see what some people here find so dangerous with that.


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## gold

In Jersey if you don't do it yourself it doesn't get done. Violation or not. Point is if you can't do something as easy as cutting in a service here you can't change services.

GFY Bob.


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## oliquir

the poco here will never cut power we have 3-5 houses per transformer and only one diconnect at primary of transformer, do you really think they will cut power to the other houses!


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## BBQ

gold said:


> In Jersey if you don't do it yourself it doesn't get done. Violation or not. Point is if you can't do something as easy as cutting in a service here you can't change services.
> 
> GFY Bob.


Die in an an electrical accident Gold.


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## BBQ

electricalwiz said:


> I am the owner and have no employees. So you are telling me you follow every OSHA standard and every law that is in your state


I am telling you the company I work for will terminate people for working hot.


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## NickTaylor

doubleoh7 said:


> I NEVER do it. I'm not a lineman. I don't pay myself enough to take risks like that. All it takes is one fumble to have an arc flash in front of your face. And, your on top of a ladder.


I am totally agree with you.


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## gold

Not saying it isn't safer to not work hot Bob, just saying it is imposable here.


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## Mike D

So I guess we all agree to disagree?

It appears the delima is based on where you live and work and what the local POCO wants you to do.


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## Shockdoc

I'm a non conformist/separatist , I tie in live services, put breakers in live panels, change main breakers live, remove asbestos from pipes, bag and discard in dumpsters. i do this safely and get paid for my effort and trouble. All the nannies and nimbys can GFTs


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## ilikepez

I always hate to work with guys like you Shockdoc. They do all this crazy unsafe stuff and get away with it or hide the injuries they do get and it forces everyone else to either follow suit or do it safe and look like slackers. I had a new guy at my old work get his leg caught in a big hydraulic clamp because the guy who was training him was doing that kind of ****. He still walks with a limp. 

And what the hell is wrong with you? Why would you put asbestos in dumpsters? You think the trash guy or the guy at the dump makes enough money to risk getting mesothelioma?


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## electricalwiz

ilikepez said:


> I always hate to work with guys like you Shockdoc. They do all this crazy unsafe stuff and get away with it or hide the injuries they do get and it forces everyone else to either follow suit or do it safe and look like slackers. I had a new guy at my old work get his leg caught in a big hydraulic clamp because the guy who was training him was doing that kind of ****. He still walks with a limp.
> 
> And what the hell is wrong with you? Why would you put asbestos in dumpsters? You think the trash guy or the guy at the dump makes enough money to risk getting mesothelioma?


where do you think asbestos removal companies put the asbestos?


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## ilikepez

They dump it in special bags in special containers and they stick it in a hazardous waste landfill if they are following the law.


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## electricalwiz

ilikepez said:


> They dump it in special bags in special containers and they stick it in a hazardous waste landfill if they are following the law.



it all goes to the same landfill.


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## Shockdoc

ilikepez said:


> I always hate to work with guys like you Shockdoc. They do all this crazy unsafe stuff and get away with it or hide the injuries they do get and it forces everyone else to either follow suit or do it safe and look like slackers. I had a new guy at my old work get his leg caught in a big hydraulic clamp because the guy who was training him was doing that kind of ****. He still walks with a limp.
> 
> And what the hell is wrong with you? Why would you put asbestos in dumpsters? You think the trash guy or the guy at the dump makes enough money to risk getting mesothelioma?


I used to swamp hop and climb trees as a child. Jump dirt bikes as a youth. I might just be lucky or well skilled , I tend to cheat death and injury.


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## Shockdoc

ilikepez said:


> They dump it in special bags in special containers and they stick it in a hazardous waste landfill if they are following the law.


Laws are made by and followed by those who believe in them, I tend to follow Gods laws, man can keep his laws for his revenuers.


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## CFL

Shockdoc said:


> Laws are made by and followed by those who believe in them, I tend to follow Gods laws, man can keep his laws for his revenuers.


Do you pay taxes? Do you stop at red lights? I don't think those were in the ten commandments.

I'm dealing with a dumbass at work who thinks he's some kind of hero for doing overheads hot. He says he has to put food on the plate, so I honestly think that he believes himself to be a hero. This guy is a typical moron who doesn't understand what he's messing with and never will. Everything he does is compared with Cuba. In Cuba we do it like this and we never have any problems... A couple of months ago he crossed his screwdriver with a wire and a neutral bar in an rpp at a datacenter. He shut the whole panel down, an alarm went off, people came running in, he blames it on the location of the bar not anything he did.

I've done plenty of overhead services live, and worked in live panels and switchgear without ppe, and every time I did it was wrong and not necessary. I think alot of you guys on here are like my coworker, you think you're like a cool lineman up there handling live wires. It's just not impressive. 

I have also done alot of work where we did have POCO shut down power, and I must say I felt much more professional and much more of an electrician because I was actually using my brain.

Some of you have said that the POCO is not going to shut down more than one house at a time. What a joke. I've had the POCO shut down an entire townhouse community for me to pull in a lateral. It wasn't my idea to shut down EVERYTHING but the point is they were willing to do that for me to work safe. It didn't cost us a dime. Why should it, we're giving them more customers.

I've had POCO shut down power to a 20 story building and standby the whole night so we can work in a switchgear section on the load side of the main. Again it wasn't my idea and seemed like overkill, but the customer was willing, in this case, to do all this so there would be no chance of an accident. Where there's a will there's a way.


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## eutecticalloy

Shockdoc said:


> Laws are made by and followed by those who believe in them, I tend to follow Gods laws, man can keep his laws for his revenuers.


God asks that we don't put his sacred creation, our lives, at risk. We are commanded not to take on unnecessary risk out or respect for God.


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## MDShunk

Shockdoc said:


> Laws are made by and followed by those who believe in them, I tend to follow Gods laws, man can keep his laws for his revenuers.


... render unto Caesar.


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## macmikeman

MDShunk said:


> ... render unto Caesar.


Almost always when I hear that being quoted it is coming from some pastor or preacher who is about to pass the hat around......


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## MDShunk

macmikeman said:


> Almost always when I hear that being quoted it is coming from some pastor or preacher who is about to pass the hat around......


I've attended church all my life, and I've heard that quoted a grand total of maybe twice. 

On the other hand, if you feel the need to send me some cash, feel free. My paypal is [email protected] :thumbsup:


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## Shockdoc

CFL said:


> Do you pay taxes? Do you stop at red lights? I don't think those were in the ten commandments.
> 
> I'm dealing with a dumbass at work who thinks he's some kind of hero for doing overheads hot. He says he has to put food on the plate, so I honestly think that he believes himself to be a hero. This guy is a typical moron who doesn't understand what he's messing with and never will. Everything he does is compared with Cuba. In Cuba we do it like this and we never have any problems... A couple of months ago he crossed his screwdriver with a wire and a neutral bar in an rpp at a datacenter. He shut the whole panel down, an alarm went off, people came running in, he blames it on the location of the bar not anything he did.
> 
> I've done plenty of overhead services live, and worked in live panels and switchgear without ppe, and every time I did it was wrong and not necessary. I think alot of you guys on here are like my coworker, you think you're like a cool lineman up there handling live wires. It's just not impressive.
> 
> I have also done alot of work where we did have POCO shut down power, and I must say I felt much more professional and much more of an electrician because I was actually using my brain.
> 
> Some of you have said that the POCO is not going to shut down more than one house at a time. What a joke. I've had the POCO shut down an entire townhouse community for me to pull in a lateral. It wasn't my idea to shut down EVERYTHING but the point is they were willing to do that for me to work safe. It didn't cost us a dime. Why should it, we're giving them more customers.
> 
> I've had POCO shut down power to a 20 story building and standby the whole night so we can work in a switchgear section on the load side of the main. Again it wasn't my idea and seemed like overkill, but the customer was willing, in this case, to do all this so there would be no chance of an accident. Where there's a will there's a way.


 I see your a liberal, whats good for you must be good for me by what your judging me by. Next idiots like you will lobby for a tax on sweetened soft drinks to fight obesity . BTW, I 'm the type of guy that giggles when i run red lights.


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## HARRY304E

Shockdoc said:


> I see your a liberal, whats good for you must be good for me by what your judging me by. Next idiots like you will lobby for a tax on sweetened soft drinks to fight obesity . BTW, I 'm the type of guy that giggles when i run red lights.


They want to make illegal to sell cold beer at the store too.

Red lights..:laughing::laughing:


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## electricmanscott

Shockdoc said:


> BTW, I 'm the type of guy that giggles when i run red lights.


Hopefully you'll and up under a tanker truck instead of plowing through the side door of some innocent person that is actually worth having around. 

What a POS.


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