# How much could I make?



## stealthsniper96

How much could I make if I owned a small electrician company with say 2-3 employees? What do you think my working hours would be like as the owner?


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## Speedy Petey

Sorry, but this question is completely unanswerable. :no:

What is your background?


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## william1978

you would work more hours than it would be worth for me anyway.


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## william1978

and have to worry about collecting the money.


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## Marco Electric

william1978 said:


> and have to worry about collecting the money.


 By far the biggest headache. I was literally worried sick for 3 days because some prick didn't pay me. I owed the guy who did the digging and laid the pipe $5500,not to mention he was my old boss and a friend. I had to go to him and tell him this guy hadn't paid. He said" I knew that prick would stiff you the minute I pulled into the driveway." The voice of experience. Luckily he is being cool,but what if another sub wasen't,or you needed it to make payroll,or pay your mortgage,or a million other things.When I started out I was worried about getting work. All the contractors I talked to said if you do a good job,the work will come. The hard part will be collecting money. I didn't believe them,but truer words have never been spoken. This morning,instead of nailing the wife, I gotta go drive an hour to get 2500 off some bitch who said" I'll put it in the mail". No way! I'll be there at 8 to get a check... That being said, I would never work for anyone but myself again!!!


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## caseyelectric

I am a firm believer in the fact that a GC is the first person to not pay. I do no work for GCs. I work directly for homeowner or business owner and have had good luck. One GC approached me, did a couple small things for him, about the 3rd time he tried to stiff me. To make a long story short i got my money plus i still do the homeowners work and have started doing the guys business work. I dont even mess with the GC, i deal directly with the owner. Since then the homeowners wife has asked me if i could recommend another GC.


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## nolabama

realisticly about 80 hours a week at about $8 to $10 an hour till you get it and provided you get paid for everything you do - but like speedy said its completly unanserable - what is your drive like, how organized are you, you got some contractors lined up to work for , do they pay , can you trust the secratary not to steal your checks and forge them , you gonna pay your men well?.......this list could go on for a few days


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## EBFD6

stealthsniper96 said:


> How much could I make if I owned a small electrician company with say 2-3 employees? What do you think my working hours would be like as the owner?


Your profile says you are a "beginner" in the electrical trade.

This question is definitely an example of trying to put the cart before the horse, so to speak.

My advice to you if you are serious about being involved in this trade is to forget about getting rich quick as you will most certainly loose every penny you have. Instead, go work for an electrical contractor and gain the knowledge and experience necessary to run an electrical business. When you are qualified you will be able to answer these questions for yourself.


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## brian john

caseyelectric said:


> I am a firm believer in the fact that a GC is the first person to not pay. I do no work for GCs.


 
That may work for some, but many ECs need GCs. I have had as much trouble collecting from EC's as GC's actually more trouble. 

I cannot believe what EC's say to me about money I am owed. They sound like GC's.


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## caseyelectric

brian john said:


> That may work for some, but many ECs need GCs. I have had as much trouble collecting from EC's as GC's actually more trouble.
> 
> I cannot believe what EC's say to me about money I am owed. They sound like GC's.


I am assuming that the EC's that owe you are ones that youare subbing from. At any rate there is no excuse for not paying somebody that you hire. To be honest, I wish i could find some good GC's to do work for. I could probably grow quicker. Im originally a commercial electrician, but where i live, ive had to do about 70% resi and 30%. I hate resi!


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## nolabama

i woulnt call what brian john does sub work


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## MDShunk

nolabama said:


> i woulnt call what brian john does sub work


What would you call it then, if you (as an EC) called him to do some testing or troubleshooting work? I'd call that hiring a subcontractor. 
No different than hiring an excavator to dig a ditch for you, or a concrete guy to pour an equipment pad.


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## brian john

Sometimes I am A sub other times I am a sub to a sub to a sub.


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## nolabama

point taken


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## electrician1957

Marco Electric said:


> The hard part will be collecting money. I didn't believe them,but truer words have never been spoken.


This is the most important truth about electrical contracting. Especially when dealing with general contractors. You cannot send a GC an invoice and expect to be paid. It just doesn't work that way. Each time you finish a job you must start an aggressive collection effort to get your money.

When a GC needs you he is very communicative and accessible. When you have done the work and now need to be paid, the formally friendly GC will start hiding from you, dodging your calls and being difficult to reach. It's like he doesn't know who you are.

I use Spooftel to change my caller ID, otherwise they see it's you and just let your calls go into Voicemail.

Getting paid is the biggest aggrevation in all of electrical contracting. The fact that people will start ducking you when you want what is rightfully yours is very distasteful. But, it comes with the turf...


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## Mountain Electrician

electrician1957 said:


> This is the most important truth about electrical contracting. Especially when dealing with general contractors. You cannot send a GC an invoice and expect to be paid. It just doesn't work that way. Each time you finish a job you must start an aggressive collection effort to get your money.
> 
> When a GC needs you he is very communicative and accessible. When you have done the work and now need to be paid, the formally friendly GC will start hiding from you, dodging your calls and being difficult to reach. It's like he doesn't know who you are.
> 
> I use Spooftel to change my caller ID, otherwise they see it's you and just let your calls go into Voicemail.
> 
> Getting paid is the biggest aggrevation in all of electrical contracting. The fact that people will start ducking you when you want what is rightfully yours is very distasteful. But, it comes with the turf...


Well put!!! 

I'm trying the Spooftel today. There's one pesky GC who and has been dodging me for a while. Now I bet I can at least get him on the phone!


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## chenley

The first job we ever did was for 20k, we had a contract drawn up by a lawyer the works. The only mistake we made was not collecting money through the progress of the job and doing a little research about the GC. We passed all inspections with flying colors and after the final we tried to collect, with no luck, went about like electrician 1957 said. Filed a lein and took the GC to court and won everything. Only took two years, getting a bank loan to carry what we owed, luckily we had the capital to keep going. It was a VERY important learning experience. Found out over time that this GC is notorious for this type of thing. We actually had a "meeting" at a restaurant about a year into the ordeal where he tried to settle for 6.5k, we laughed and told him we would see him in court. 

A lots changed since then with our contracts, how/when we collect money, and do a background check on GC's when dealing with larger contracts. Really the best thing to do is talk to other contractors before signing with a new GC. The GC had an electrician before you, ask yourself why is he going with you on this job and not his previous electrical company, talk to the previous electrical company usually you'll get an earfull.


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## piette

I have only been in business for about a year now, and for the most part i don't ever have to deal with GC's, as my business is more of a service work based business. I typically get paid before I leave the jobsite. I do work for one GC that does utility contracting, and they are a bit slow on pay, but after doing a few jobs for them now, I know how they work and trust I will get paid.

As was said, if you are looking to get rich quick, this isn't the way to do it in my opinion. I would like to think that eventually my company can help me live comfortably, but I realize that that will only happen from loads of sweat and tears from me first.

Jeff


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## electrician1957

chenley said:


> The GC had an electrician before you, ask yourself why is he going with you on this job and not his previous electrical company, talk to the previous electrical company usually you'll get an earfull.


So, the GC's just gonna give you the phone number for his last electrician? Highly unlikely. That's why I always leave a note in the service panel for the next electrician, warning him of what to expect...


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## chenley

electrician1957 said:


> So, the GC's just gonna give you the phone number for his last electrician? Highly unlikely. That's why I always leave a note in the service panel for the next electrician, warning him of what to expect...


In a "city" of a maximum population of 30,000 people, it's not too hard to find out who his last electrician was and who his next electrician is. lol.


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## electrician1957

chenley said:


> In a "city" of a maximum population of 30,000 people, it's not too hard to find out who his last electrician was and who his next electrician is. lol.


Good one! :thumbsup:


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## chenley

Actually all the electricians around here, about 4 big shops, get along pretty well. We all have our usual customers and our own niche markets. The largest one, which is a union shop, does all the large commercial and industrial. While we do the medium/small commercial and industrial. The other two are mainly residential, while we will do the random large residential job where there is a quite a bit of custom wiring involved.


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## shields

*This really is a horriable question*

You can't focus on the money. When all you have on your mind is the pay off you will not conduct business in an effective manor what so ever. If you have a back ground in business then you should know this, if you have been in the field then you need to work on the actual business operations to determine what type of system you are going to put in place in order to make it to your goal.


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## caseyelectric

shields said:


> You can't focus on the money. When all you have on your mind is the pay off you will not conduct business in an effective manor what so ever. If you have a back ground in business then you should know this, if you have been in the field then you need to work on the actual business operations to determine what type of system you are going to put in place in order to make it to your goal.


This is the type of positive info that im really looking for. I think im doing pretty good right now but to know im heading in the right direction would be even better. Ive just been trying to take baby steps and learn it as i go, the business side that is! Though i do learn stuff about the trade as well. If you aint learning you aint doing something right or nothing at all and if you think you know it all well ill just be nice you aint fooling me! Please Shields, tell me more.


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## electrician1957

My advice is conduct your business as if you were a fortune 500 company. Watch the bottom line, get everything in writing, don't work for free, never take anything personally and become obsessive about cutting costs and streamlining procedures.


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## shields

*Business Systems*

I've received a few private messages asking for me to elaborate on my previous posts. I prefer to keep everything out in the public area so that others may benefit from the information as well.

The common question was that there doesn't seem to be an understanding of what I was referring to when I was referencing "systems". (I can't see who it was who post another comment after I did) Yes you do need to uphold a level of integrity in your work. You need to know where your boundaries are and truly stick to those boundaries. As soon as you give in once you will cave again and your boundaries will be no more.

Do you ever wonder how the really large contractors got that way? Not saying that everyone wants to be that influential in the industry, but if the correct systems are in place there is no reason why you can't be. In order to evaluate what you need to do to get to your goal, you need to first define what your goal is. Each person is going to have a different one, and your happiness will only be found when you find your end goal. To reach that end goal you implement systems that have been proven effective time and time again. The big boys don't get to be the big boys because they are special, no they copy what other successful people have done in the past. So your job is to identify your goal. Then we can identify your system to achieve your goal.


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## chenley

shields said:


> I've received a few private messages asking for me to elaborate on my previous posts. I prefer to keep everything out in the public area so that others may benefit from the information as well.
> 
> The common question was that there doesn't seem to be an understanding of what I was referring to when I was referencing "systems". (I can't see who it was who post another comment after I did) Yes you do need to uphold a level of integrity in your work. You need to know where your boundaries are and truly stick to those boundaries. As soon as you give in once you will cave again and your boundaries will be no more.
> 
> Do you ever wonder how the really large contractors got that way? Not saying that everyone wants to be that influential in the industry, but if the correct systems are in place there is no reason why you can't be. In order to evaluate what you need to do to get to your goal, you need to first define what your goal is. Each person is going to have a different one, and your happiness will only be found when you find your end goal. To reach that end goal you implement systems that have been proven effective time and time again. The big boys don't get to be the big boys because they are special, no they copy what other successful people have done in the past. So your job is to identify your goal. Then we can identify your system to achieve your goal.


What you described would be in a business plan which most of all business' should have. In this you would have the products and services the business offers, merketing plan, operational plan, management organization, *company goals*, financial analysis for starting up the business and projected (estimated) profit a few years in the future. A competition study mainly a SWOT (Strenghts, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats) analysis. The business plan is mainly for getting startup capital and investments and it also serves as a guide on how the business should run. 

Most places have a small business startup development center that can help with this.


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## shields

Yes you are correct with your statements...

However you have also touched upon a few points that do need attention. This information should be in a business plan. How many actually complete this outline for the direction of their company? Not many... The business plan only will be completed when it is found to be necessary to do so. Yes there is allot of work involved in creating the plan. This brings us back to the same problem...

What I have found that most contractors have no marketing campaign in place at all. Let me ask you this...If you made at least $50,000.00 more this next year by only doing about 2 extra hours of work a week, would that interest you?


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## Tiger

shields said:


> You can't focus on the money. When all you have on your mind is the pay off you will not conduct business in an effective manor what so ever. If you have a back ground in business then you should know this, if you have been in the field then you need to work on the actual business operations to determine what type of system you are going to put in place in order to make it to your goal.


Systems are important, but most businesses fail from problems with Pricing/Bidding, Receivables and Cash Flow, so focus on the money.


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## electrician1957

As humans there are only two ways we can fail: In the design or in the execution. Everything we do can only fail or succeed because of the quality of the design or execution (or in rare cases, both).

It's been my experience that 99% of the time when things go wrong, the problem was poor design. As craftsmen we are very familiar with the execution side of things, we do things. But things go wrong in the execution constantly, but we recognize when this happens and fix and correct things on the spot and move on. As we execute electrical projects, we are problem solvers and when we are done, our work product is essentially perfect and trouble free.

Design on the other hand, typically can not be fixed "as you go". A poor design (or plan) will inevitably have a poor result no matter how good the execution was. Imagine a narrow two lane road leading into a city of 100,000 inhabitants, no matter how well the road is constructed, the design is inefficient and this road will not be able to handle the traffic demands placed on it.

If you look around, you will see thousands of examples of things that fail because the initial plan was flawed. Workers in automobile factories expertly assemble vehicles that nobody wants, Wall Street bankers do a good job selling securities based high risk mortgages, that neighborhood restaurant that made great cheeseburgers but went out of business anyway....

Conversely there are many examples of things that are poorly (or marginally) executed but are a success because of an excellent design or plan. We all can easily name very successful businesses whose actual product is only mediocre or worse. Have you noticed that other Electrical Contractors whom you know to be millionaires have a work product that is far below your personal standards? It's a fact that as a business grows and the owner gets further away from his own product, quality suffers. He may not produce poor quality but it will not be up to his standards when he was doing it himself.

Moral of the story: While proper execution is desirable, proper planning is absolutely essential.

Those people who speak of systems for your business are very wise. You've got to create policies and procedures for your business that will grow with your business. Always conduct yourself as if you were a large business.

Lay out goals for your business and give them names like "Step 1" and "Step 2" for various milestones like hiring your first employees to buying a second truck. Also have an exit strategy, what's your final goal? To sell your business or oversee it part time while your business manager runs it on a daily basis?

Planning is everything.


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## shields

Tiger said:


> Systems are important, but most businesses fail from problems with Pricing/Bidding, Receivables and Cash Flow, so focus on the money.


You are correct with this statement. How ever focusing on the money will leave your client flapping out in the wind. When you are able to tap into a following of clients the money will come you don't need to focus on it. So many today forget the fact that a business is a relationship you have with your client, if you position yourself correctly you will be able to charge a premium for your service. Many will say that they will price them selves out of the market....I say maybe your in the wrong market then


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## electrician1957

shields said:


> f you position yourself correctly you will be able to charge a premium for your service. Many will say that they will price them selves out of the market....I say maybe your in the wrong market then


I've been hearing this idea chanted like a mantra for years. I'm beginning to believe it's urban legend. The notion that all one has to do is find a market where money is no object is just as good an idea as planning to win the lottery and retire from electrical.

I have to chuckle every time I hear this. People promoting this fuzzy thinking like to make analogies to prove their point. How can Rolex charge $10,000 for a watch that tells time as well as a $30 Timex? This would be useful if we were in the watchmaking business. But I know of no consumer that will pay $10,000 for a smoke detector no matter how great it's perceived value.

When people buy electrical services their only expectation is that it work. Yeah you can sell fancy dimmers and light fixtures but the cost of those items are public knowledge.

Service oriented electrical contractors like to boast how profitable they are, yet the biggest, most successful electrical contractors are in the pipe and wire construction business. Electrical wiring is for the most part, a commodity. Hey, I'm as disappointed in this fact as you guys are, but it is nonetheless a fact.

shields, I've been reading your posts and it is clear to me that you are a level headed and professional contractor and I'm not criticizing you, it's just that if I hear this "move to an upscale market" story one more time my head will explode.

The formula for success in the electrical business (if there is such a formula) is to install as much wire as you can as cheaply as you can and as fast as you can and in as many different locations as you can.

A similar business model is practiced by Walmart.


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## shields

Indeed you are correct with your statements, and if anyone should find an area were they do pay 10k for a smoke please tell me I will be the next resident of that town.

You have touched upon what I am referring to however. You used the name rolex and compared that to another watch. Yes they both have the same function, but one has a perceived value to it. That takes branding, and this is at the core of what I am speaking about. In my area I have been fortunate enough to have been able to work with some very affluent families. The way the wealthy think is very different then you might expect. Once you get into this market you are able to set a premium price. I look at it in a different way then using the watch annalogy. If you were able to get 5 jobs that payed the same as one job (I'm not just talking about adding a smoke or recp) wouldn't your time be better spent on that one job, and then spend the rest of the time you would have spent doing the other 4 jobs on finding more projects like the one job? I don't care what city your in, there are people there that are able to support this relationship. That is were you should focus your self. that is were you want to position yourself.


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## chenley

shields said:


> If you were able to get 5 jobs that payed the same as one job (I'm not just talking about adding a smoke or recp) wouldn't your time be better spent on that one job, and then spend the rest of the time you would have spent doing the other 4 jobs on finding more projects like the one job?


Just throwing this out there, hadn't had my first cup of coffee yet :sleep1:.
Most of the business we get are from referrals. So if we did the five jobs for the same amount of money for the one job. It seems to me the five would be better of if we even get two referrals out of them, than one referral from the one job. Just a thought.


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## piette

chenley said:


> Just throwing this out there, hadn't had my first cup of coffee yet :sleep1:.
> Most of the business we get are from referrals. So if we did the five jobs for the same amount of money for the one job. It seems to me the five would be better of if we even get two referrals out of them, than one referral from the one job. Just a thought.


I agree, especially considering the original intent as I read it, of this thread, is a start up business. A start up business focusing all it efforts on landing those few golden contracts rather than pounding the streets and getting every job in every location it can seems to be a fruitless erffort in my opinion. Sure it may work for some, but the vast majority are going to have to work there butts off doing every job they can get there hands on until they are established enough to have a brand identified with them.

Jeff


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## brian john

> My advice is conduct your business as if you were a fortune 500 company. Watch the bottom line, get everything in writing, don't work for free, never take anything personally and become obsessive about cutting costs and streamlining procedures.


exactly the opposite of what I would do.

Fortune 500 do not offer personal attention and think nothing of screwing a customer. NOT me.

I take EVERYTHING personally, my business is me.

I do stuff for free all the time and in my experience it has brought back more work than I ever gave.

I do not worry about cutting cost or streamlining I worry about being the BEST at what I do and everything else follows.


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## shields

Stream lining does not constitute "screwing" clients, not at all. It is about being as efficient as you can with your time. That is a common misconception of many today. I take what we do very seriously, is we cut corners, people could be seriously hurt, and property could be damaged. There is no room for short cuts in this business. As far as working for free...thats your business, me no way. You are providing a very valuable service to people and should be compensated for it. I hate to compare us to something like walmart, but they are both businesses. Do you think you could go into a walmart and ask for a free snickers bar? that might cost ol sam walmart about .2 cents. The fact of the matter is yes we are people and most of us are very nice people and want to help when we can, but you have to remember that you are a business, others will respect that if you present it in that way


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## caveman

electrician1957 said:


> But I know of no consumer that will pay $10,000 for a smoke detector no matter how great it's perceived value.
> 
> When people buy electrical services their only expectation is that it work. Yeah you can sell fancy dimmers and light fixtures but the cost of those items are public knowledge.


You just need to convince the customer that the $10,000 smoke detector will improve the sound of their multi-million dollar sound system and protect it better from a fire. After all you don't just want any old smoke detector. You want the best protecting your investment. 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKWG381&variation=

http://www.higherfi.com/


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## electrician1957

brian john said:


> I take EVERYTHING personally, my business is me.


I'm pretty sure they don't teach that at the Harvard School Of Business.


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## chenley

caveman said:


> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKWG381&variation=


 Could I get a white gold, diamond encrusted faceplate with that also? :jester:


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## majorman

*Damn the naysayers...full speed ahead!*

There's a formula you can use to determine how much you can make. I learned it from pat kennedy : the guy who started the mister sparky franchise. 

You multiply the number of people in your area by 20. That will give you the size of the market and how much is available for you to make. This formula only applies to the residential service market of an area. Why that formula- I don't know. But it seems to work out.

Don't listen to all the negativity  on here. There are two ways to go about your business: the way everyone else does it, or the way that works. Find who the most successful electrical contractor is in your area and emulate him. Do business like he does. Don't follow the crowd, as they're usually wrong. If he's strong on service, you do the same. If he's offering big guarantees to get lots of customers, make your guarantees strong also.

And check out www.youresi.com and www.thesuccessfulcontractor.com They got some good stuff on there. I went to one of the meetings where they try and get you to sign up to join their group. I couldn't afford it; but they gave enough info out for free that boosted my business darn near tenfold! No b.s.

Success is yours if you believe it is. :thumbsup: 

And you don't have to bleed and cry your way to it like some will tell you.


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## shields

majorman said:


> There's a formula you can use to determine how much you can make. I learned it from pat kennedy : the guy who started the mister sparky franchise.
> 
> You multiply the number of people in your area by 20. That will give you the size of the market and how much is available for you to make. This formula only applies to the residential service market of an area. Why that formula- I don't know. But it seems to work out.
> 
> Don't listen to all the negativity  on here. There are two ways to go about your business: the way everyone else does it, or the way that works. Find who the most successful electrical contractor is in your area and emulate him. Do business like he does. Don't follow the crowd, as they're usually wrong. If he's strong on service, you do the same. If he's offering big guarantees to get lots of customers, make your guarantees strong also.
> 
> And check out www.youresi.com and www.thesuccessfulcontractor.com They got some good stuff on there. I went to one of the meetings where they try and get you to sign up to join their group. I couldn't afford it; but they gave enough info out for free that boosted my business darn near tenfold! No b.s.
> 
> Success is yours if you believe it is. :thumbsup:
> 
> And you don't have to bleed and cry your way to it like some will tell you.


You are 100% correct. Another formula for you, your liquid assets as compared to what you make on a yearly basis. If you are not at this point then you need to change things to get to this point 
Take your age X .112 X what you made last year = what you should have in the bank. That was told to be by a very very wealthy business man. 
As you pointed out you just need to copy what the wealthy do, doesn't matter what business your in. Don't try and reinvent the wheel it's already been done for you.


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## electrician1957

majorman said:


> Find who the most successful electrical contractor is in your area and emulate him. Do business like he does.


It's no secret that the most successful electrical contractors are in commercial construction. When Electrical Contractor Magazine lists the 100 most successful Electrical Contractors, you never see service contractors on that list.


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## shields

electrician1957 said:


> It's no secret that the most successful electrical contractors are in commercial construction. When Electrical Contractor Magazine lists the 100 most successful Electrical Contractors, you never see service contractors on that list.


It doesn't matter what the industry is or what you specialize in. You can make it in any field, any industry, any niche market as long as you have the tools and know how to make your "systems" work in the most efficient way. In order to define "successful" you need to know what that means to you. Every one is different. You can make the largest most respected, most trusted electrical service company in your area, county, state region...doesn't matter. Does it take work, yes absolutely it will, but what you should strive to do is set up systems to automate some of the process for you. After you do something once you want it to replicate it's self with out having to go back and redo that step again and again. Much like the referrals everyone is talking about. Ever think about a self generating referral network that you control, and it feeds it's self with out you having to go out and drive around neighborhoods...it's all just a matter of systems and knowing how to use those systems....

Matt


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## electrician1957

shields said:


> Take your age X .112 X what you made last year = what you should have in the bank.


I was always taught to take your height in inches and multiply it by .993 and that the product and multiply it by 11,222.

For example, I'm 72 inches tall.

72 x .993 = 71.496
71.496 x 11,222 = 802,328.11

My formula uses height instead of age, but admittedly neither one has any business being in a financial calculation, but height is more constant. My formula also disregards last years annual salary because that's also irrelevant since savings are intended for your future financial requirements that have no correlation to past wages.


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## electrician1957

shields said:


> It doesn't matter what the industry is or what you specialize in. You can make it in any field, any industry, any niche market as long as you have the tools and know how to make your "systems" work in the most efficient way. In order to define "successful" you need to know what that means to you. Every one is different. You can make the largest most respected, most trusted electrical service company in your area, county, state region...doesn't matter. Does it take work, yes absolutely it will, but what you should strive to do is set up systems to automate some of the process for you. After you do something once you want it to replicate it's self with out having to go back and redo that step again and again. Much like the referrals everyone is talking about. Ever think about a self generating referral network that you control, and it feeds it's self with out you having to go out and drive around neighborhoods...it's all just a matter of systems and knowing how to use those systems....
> 
> Matt


Success is only measured in dollars. We are talking business here. Happiness and respect and pride are characteristics that can be found amongst the poorest of people. In business it's about the almighty dollar.

By the way Matt, I'm not trying to antagonize you, you seem like a guy that can handle a spirited debate.

Rock on! :thumbsup:


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## shields

electrician1957 said:


> Success is only measured in dollars. We are talking business here. Happiness and respect and pride are characteristics that can be found amongst the poorest of people. In business it's about the almighty dollar.
> 
> By the way Matt, I'm not trying to antagonize you, you seem like a guy that can handle a spirited debate.
> 
> Rock on! :thumbsup:


No worries at all I do enjoy a debt when there is one to be had

When may I ask did I make the correlation between happiness and respect to that of money? 

Actually studies have been done on the "happiest" group in the world do you know who that group was?

The Amish, the question was then raised would you give up everything you had in order to be happy. Most refused to do so.


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## electrician1957

shields said:


> No worries at all I do enjoy a debt when there is one to be had
> 
> When may I ask did I make the correlation between happiness and respect to that of money?
> 
> Actually studies have been done on the "happiest" group in the world do you know who that group was?
> 
> The Amish, the question was then raised would you give up everything you had in order to be happy. Most refused to do so.


You made no correlation, but you listed similar things as alternate ways to measure success.

Amish are happy in the same manner my dog is happy, both of them live in a little wonderland where they have no perspective on the bigger picture. My dog doesn't drive a car, so he is blissfully unconcerned about gas prices...

I saw this documentary about the Amish with Woody Harrelson and Randy Quaid and it showed that the Amish were good at things like bowling but really lacked an understanding of the world at large...


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## shields

electrician1957 said:


> You made no correlation, but you listed similar things as alternate ways to measure success.
> 
> Amish are happy in the same manner my dog is happy, both of them live in a little wonderland where they have no perspective on the bigger picture. My dog doesn't drive a car, so he is blissfully unconcerned about gas prices...
> 
> The was a documentary about the Amish with Woody Harrelson and Randy Quaid and it showed that the Amish were good at things like bowling but really lacked an understanding of the world at large.


I left the measurement of success up to the reader "everyone is different" "you need to know what that means to you". 

That was an interesting segment, and had a specific focal topic that was being covered, what you have outlined here was the unintended derivative of the program.


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## sotoremodelers

oh wow, i didnt realize it was so hard to get paid from gc, i just started my own business its still slow, but come the year new hope all things will turn around.

thanks to this forum i am learning alot about the biz

thanks guys.
_______________________
David

Chicago Remodeling
Chicago Electrical Contractor


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## NJElectrician

majorman said:


> There's a formula you can use to determine how much you can make. I learned it from pat kennedy : the guy who started the mister sparky franchise.
> 
> You multiply the number of people in your area by 20. That will give you the size of the market and how much is available for you to make. This formula only applies to the residential service market of an area. Why that formula- I don't know. But it seems to work out.
> 
> Don't listen to all the negativity  on here. There are two ways to go about your business: the way everyone else does it, or the way that works. Find who the most successful electrical contractor is in your area and emulate him. Do business like he does. Don't follow the crowd, as they're usually wrong. If he's strong on service, you do the same. If he's offering big guarantees to get lots of customers, make your guarantees strong also.
> 
> And check out www.youresi.com and www.thesuccessfulcontractor.com They got some good stuff on there. I went to one of the meetings where they try and get you to sign up to join their group. I couldn't afford it; but they gave enough info out for free that boosted my business darn near tenfold! No b.s.
> 
> Success is yours if you believe it is. :thumbsup:
> 
> And you don't have to bleed and cry your way to it like some will tell you.


Hello Majorman, thank you for the ESI connection...looks very useful. Can you comment on the approximate cost to join and be a member? Thank you, Ken.


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## electricmanscott

NJElectrician said:


> Hello Majorman, thank you for the ESI connection...looks very useful. Can you comment on the approximate cost to join and be a member? Thank you, Ken.


You just aked a question to a post that was made almost two years ago. You still on dial up? 

BTW, I wonder if the OP is filthy rich yet. :laughing:


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## Innovative

Two cans and a string........ the OP has either retired or gone out of business.... my bet is on the second one........


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## Speedy Petey

Way too old to continue.

Majorman was last in in April of this year. NJElectrician, you can PM him and maybe he'll see it.


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