# Drilling through I beams



## FCR1988

There seems to be a debate amongst some of the trades in regards to drilling through beams. So how far along the beam and how far apart d o you drill holes?


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## Pete m.

You had better get a structural engineer involved before you make ANY holes.

Drilling a hole in any engineered product whether it be wood or steel could end up taking a big chunk of your profit or cause an insurance claim.

Pete


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## Dennis Alwon

FCR1988 said:


> There seems to be a debate amongst some of the trades in regards to drilling through beams. So how far along the beam and how far apart d o you drill holes?


I have drilled I beams but not without an engineers okay- you drill in the wrong place you are in deep doo-doo


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## chewy

If I have to do it, I go as small as I can.


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## FCR1988

Damn, yea we're in apartments and theres no other way to run wire. But no one is any help on the jobsite.


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## Dennis Alwon

chewy said:


> If I have to do it, I go as small as I can.


I have drilled 2 " holes thru them. Theoretically, the middle part from top to bottom, does not carry any load. I bet if you stay in the first 1/3 of the length at either end you would be okay. It is probably similar to floor joist.


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## Dennis Alwon

FCR1988 said:


> Damn, yea we're in apartments and theres no other way to run wire. But no one is any help on the jobsite.


I have to go up and down around the steel thru the wall.


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## electricmanscott

FCR1988 said:


> There seems to be a debate amongst some of the trades in regards to drilling through beams. So how far along the beam and how far apart d o you drill holes?


Wood or steel?


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## angryceltic

FCR1988 said:


> There seems to be a debate amongst some of the trades in regards to drilling through beams. So how far along the beam and how far apart d o you drill holes?


Have the foreman submit an rfi


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## 360max

FCR1988 said:


> Damn, yea we're in apartments and theres no other way to run wire. But no one is any help on the jobsite.


....use beam clamps like everyone else, that's the way its done.


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## Dennis Alwon

360max said:


> ....use beam clamps like everyone else, that's the way its done.


How does a beam clamp help if you cannot pass over or under and need to get to the other side?


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## 360max

Dennis Alwon said:


> How does a beam clamp help if you cannot pass over or under and need to get to the other side?



...if there is no other option, the structural engineer will tell you, *IN WRITING*, where do drill and how far apart.


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## B4T

Here is a link with all kinds of info.. look under "installation guide".. http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=1390


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## jimmy21

Depends what kind of ibeam. Im picturing a tgi


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## nolabama

Hougan bit - mag drill - drill away


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## 19kilosparky984

360max said:


> ...if there is no other option, the structural engineer will tell you, *IN WRITING*, where do drill and how far apart.


All you have to do is grab one of the little booklets that is attached to just about every beam.

In there it has exact locations you can drill. Pretty much exactly what Dennis posted.

By the time that "structural engineer" gets back to you the GC will have found a competent EC to replace you with.


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## chewy

nolabama said:


> Hougan bit - mag drill - drill away


In leiu of a mag drill Ive just used plenty of cutting oil and a 32mm holesaw. 

Alternatively Ive bought the iron workers a box of beers and they cut holes Ive marked with a plasma cutter.


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## nolabama

I have used hole saws also - hougan bits are waaaay better


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## chewy

nolabama said:


> I have used hole saws also - hougan bits are waaaay better


They wouldnt work with just a handheld power drill would they?


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## 360max

19kilosparky984 said:


> All you have to do is grab one of the little *booklets that is attached *to just about every beam.
> 
> In there it has exact locations you can drill. Pretty much exactly what Dennis posted.
> 
> By the time that "structural engineer" gets back to you the GC will have found a competent EC to replace you with.


I work primarily industrial, so there are no booklets attached to the beams, and the beams are massive pieces of steel. As for the 'competent EC' comment, if I drilled a hole thru a steel beam to run anything without prior written approval, I'd be down the road before the bit cooled!


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## chewy

360max said:


> I work primarily industrial, so there are no booklets attached to the beams, and the beams are massive pieces of steel.:thumbsup:


The ironworkers aren't exactly the type to make little booklets around here.


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## 360max

chewy said:


> The ironworkers aren't exactly the type to make little booklets around here.


:laughing::laughing::laughing: here neither, they seem grumpy:laughing:


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## socalelect

chewy said:


> They wouldnt work with just a handheld power drill would they?


Nope they wont work they don't have a pilot bit that cuts like a holesaw. And they have a 3/4 sq shank. They are worth getting the mag drill tho just be careful with the super sharp shavings


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## B4T

One of these in any drill is all you need.. especially Milwaukee hole Hawg..


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## chewy

B4T said:


> One of these in any drill is all you need.. especially Milwaukee hole Hawg..


Guilty... I drilled a 1 inch hole in a 2.5mm steel purlin with one when I bent my pilot bit. It was ugly but I got a cable through. The spade bit got a nice blued finish.


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## 19kilosparky984

360max said:


> I work primarily industrial, so there are no booklets attached to the beams, and the beams are massive pieces of steel. As for the 'competent EC' comment, if I drilled a hole thru a steel beam to run anything without prior written approval, I'd be down the road before the bit cooled!


So you have never even worked with a TGI beam and don't know nothing about what the op is asking but yet had to chime in anyway?

Yea that's about right forth for this forum.


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## BBQ

19kilosparky984 said:


> So you have never even worked with a TGI beam and don't know nothing about what the op is asking but yet had to chime in anyway?
> 
> Yea that's about right forth for this forum.


You are right, if I were you I would just stop coming here.


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## electricmanscott

Wood or steel.


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## hardworkingstiff

electricmanscott said:


> Wood or steel.


I wonder how many times you are going to have to ask this question to get an answer from the OP?


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## user4818

B4T said:


> One of these in any drill is all you need.. especially Milwaukee hole Hawg..


Spade bit + Hole Hawg + bound up bit = injury. 

I think a spade bit is the absolute worst bit to use with a Hole Hawg. Use a nail eating auger bit instead.


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## erics37

Haven't had to drill through a steel I-beam before, so I don't know.

But these things:










I just bash a hole in them with my hammer. Big ol' hole. You can fit lots of wires through it.


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## BBQ

erics37 said:


> these things:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just bash a hole in them with my hammer. Big ol' hole. You can fit lots of wires through it.


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## erics37

BBQ said:


>


That's a record number of EEK faces from you :laughing:


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## BBQ

erics37 said:


> That's a record number of EEK faces from you :laughing:


It is, I consider you to be one of the good guys so when you post a huge hack it is shocking. :laughing:


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## user4818

BBQ said:


> It is, I consider you to be one of the good guys so when you post a huge hack it is shocking. :laughing:


What about me?


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## BBQ

Peter D said:


> What about me?


Well you are OK when not being an anus. :jester:


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## erics37

BBQ said:


> It is, I consider you to be one of the good guys so when you post a huge hack it is shocking. :laughing:


I hack stuff all the time.

But honestly the only holes I bash in TJI joists are the little pre-punched ones from the factory. It's also been like 4 years or more since I last wired a building that had those in it.


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## user4818

BBQ said:


> Well you are OK when not being an anus. :jester:


 

You're ok when you're not you. :thumbup:


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## BBQ

Peter D said:


> You're ok when you're not *you.* :thumbup:



:laughing::laughing::thumbup:


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> Spade bit + Hole Hawg + bound up bit = injury.
> 
> I think a spade bit is the absolute worst bit to use with a Hole Hawg. Use a nail eating auger bit instead.


You are drilling through 1/2" of wood chips glued together.. with a sharp one piece steel bit.. where is the danger.. :blink::blink:


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## hardworkingstiff

erics37 said:


> I hack stuff all the time.
> 
> But honestly the only holes I bash in TJI joists are the little pre-punched ones from the factory. It's also been like 4 years or more since I last wired a building that had those in it.


I remember those beams from the 70's. When they 1st came out you could punch the hole out with a hammer, but after a while (I guess the blade got dull) they wouldn't pop out, had to drill them. I just used the hole punch location as a place to drill.


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## user4818

B4T said:


> You are drilling through 1/2" of wood chips glued together.. with a sharp one piece steel bit.. where is the danger.. :blink::blink:


A Hole Hawg is inherently dangerous due to the huge amount of torque involved. I'd rather use a bit with the least chance of binding, no matter what kind of material I'm drilling through.


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> A Hole Hawg is inherently dangerous due to the huge amount of torque involved. I'd rather use a bit with the least chance of binding, no matter what kind of material I'm drilling through.


OK....................


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## BBQ

B4T said:


> OK....................


Here is a great example, Pete did not say you were wrong, only that he does not like to use a spade bit. 

So why do you find it necessary for all the eye rolling?

I am not looking to start crap, just asking a question.


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## erics37

hardworkingstiff said:


> I remember those beams from the 70's. When they 1st came out you could punch the hole out with a hammer, but after a while (I guess the blade got dull) they wouldn't pop out, had to drill them. I just used the hole punch location as a place to drill.


Yeah that's where I usually say "f**k it" and bash a hole through anyway.



BBQ said:


> Here is a great example, Pete did not say you were wrong, only that he does not like to use a spade bit.
> 
> So why do you find it necessary for all the eye rolling?


Because he's insecure.


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## FCR1988

Well the pm had a pdf saying where we can drill. The werent really I beams, they were laminate ones. So I was good on my holes.


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## B4T

BBQ said:


> Here is a great example, Pete did not say you were wrong, only that he does not like to use a spade bit.
> 
> So why do you find it necessary for all the eye rolling?
> 
> I am not looking to start crap, just asking a question.


Because when you use a naileater.. it pulls you into the beam..

The spacing of the joists are usually 12" so you are drilling on an angle.. using a spade bit.. you are drilling straight..

He mentions "high torque" involved.. as I said.. he is drilling through 1/2" wood chips glued together..

What is wrong with a..


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## user4818

B4T said:


> OK....................


So would you care to elaborate? What exactly did I saw that was not accurate? 

Will a spade bit work on TGI's? Yeah, it probably works great. But what about other types of lumber? I'd say a spade bit is probably slower and more tedious than an auger bit.


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## B4T

erics37 said:


> Because he's insecure.


Eric.. that is a dumb statement.. insecure about what.. :blink::blink::blink::blink:


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## user4818

B4T said:


> He mentions "high torque" involved.. as I said.. he is drilling through 1/2" wood chips glued together..


The material is irrelevant. If the bit binds up, you're going for a ride.


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## walkerj

Don't drill a Wood IBeam or GluLam without approval. 
I have seen a house deconstructed to install a new one


You have to be installing some mission critical stuff to get away with cutting into a steel IBeam.


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> So would you care to elaborate? What exactly did I saw that was not accurate?
> 
> Will a spade bit work on TGI's? Yeah, it probably works great. But what about other types of lumber? I'd say a spade bit is probably slower and more tedious than an auger bit.


I use spade bits on any wood where there is no chance of hitting a nail and in a Hole Hawg it is faster than a nail eater..


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## erics37

B4T said:


> Because when you use a naileater.. it pulls you into the beam..
> 
> The spacing of the joists are usually 12" so you are drilling on an angle.. using a spade bit.. you are drilling straight..
> 
> He mentions "high torque" involved.. as I said.. he is drilling through 1/2" wood chips glued together..
> 
> What is wrong with a..


They make short nail eaters.


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## user4818

B4T said:


> I use spade bits on any wood where there is no chance of hitting a nail and in a Hole Hawg it is faster than a nail eater..


Well, as usual you have perfect job conditions, and you do everything 180 degrees out of the norm. :laughing: You seriously drill a house out with spade bits? :blink:


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> The material is irrelevant. If the bit binds up, you're going for a ride.


We are talking about drilling I joists.. the material is relevant to the debate..

It is NOT going to bind in 1/2" OSB.. Eric is breaking holes with his hammer.. the stuff is not heavy enough to even stop my cordless drill..


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> Well, as usual you have perfect job conditions, and you do everything 180 degrees out of the norm. :laughing: You seriously drill a house out with spade bits? :blink:


It is faster (FOR ME) on "clean" lumber like interior walls and ceiling/floor beams.. I use both types.. each has an advantage over the other..


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## user4818

B4T said:


> It is faster (FOR ME) on "clean" lumber like interior walls and ceiling/floor beams.. I use both types.. each has an advantage over the other..


Okie dokie. 

Oh, how about you dump that stupid signature line?


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## Shockdoc

Peter D said:


> A Hole Hawg is inherently dangerous due to the huge amount of torque involved. I'd rather use a bit with the least chance of binding, no matter what kind of material I'm drilling through.


:blink::blink::no::whistling2::laughing:


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## electricmanscott

A spade bit is made for high speed drilling not a hi torque hole hawg.


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## electricmanscott

BBQ said:


> Here is a great example, Pete did not say you were wrong, only that he does not like to use a spade bit.
> 
> So why do you find it necessary for all the eye rolling?
> 
> I am not looking to start crap, just asking a question.


Not meeeeeeeeee. Everyone is always picking on me.....  ~B4T~


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## BBQ

electricmanscott said:


> A spade bit is made for high speed drilling not a hi torque hole hawg.


Logic and truth is unacceptable.


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## electricmanscott

Wood or steel. :laughing:


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## BBQ

electricmanscott said:


> Wood or steel. :laughing:


Well if it is steel I use a hole saw ......... and yes I have done it.


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## B4T

electricmanscott said:


> A spade bit is made for high speed drilling not a hi torque hole hawg.


So isn't a 1200 rpm drill "high speed":blink::blink::blink::blink:

I think the real problem is some of you guys have "girly hands".. :no::no:


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## chewy

Peter D said:


> Spade bit + Hole Hawg + bound up bit = injury.
> 
> I think a spade bit is the absolute worst bit to use with a Hole Hawg. Use a nail eating auger bit instead.


The spade will bend before you do.


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## Shockdoc

chewy said:


> The spade will bend before you do.


I had a bit catch my glove in the cold season, completely ripped it off in a second. Didn't even hurt


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## chewy

Shockdoc said:


> I had a bit catch my glove in the cold season, completely ripped it off in a second. Didn't even hurt


I augered a guy in the back and it ripped his vis vest off like a movie, haha. Now he freaks out if I touch his back and rev my drill, haha.


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## RGH

I think it would be a building code violation no matter what...I beams are not supposed to be fxxked with period....I have never drilled through one or seen one fxxded with in my 32 yrs...any competent sparky would think the same...the wooden type beams have knock outs of us or plumbers ect....if they wanted us phocking with I beams they would do the same..IMHO...


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## B4T

RGH said:


> I think it would be a building code violation no matter what...I beams are not supposed to be fxxked with period....I have never drilled through one or seen one fxxded with in my 32 yrs...any competent sparky would think the same...the wooden type beams have knock outs of us or plumbers ect....if they wanted us phocking with I beams they would do the same..IMHO...


You need check out the link I poster here a few pages back.. there is no code violation in drilling hole in wood "I" beams.. 

How do you wire electrical boxes if you don't drill holes.. :blink::blink::blink::blink:


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## RGH

oh 1st post said "beams" not laminated wood beams...I thought he was in an industrial setting.....:laughing:....more beer please..


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## Speedy Petey

19kilosparky984 said:


> It's so stupid, he must have some dirt on the mods, that's the only way anyone would be able to get away with what he does


What could that POSSIBLY be?? Seriously, I'd be curious to know what "dirt" you think he, or ANYONE, has on any of us. 
That is just a silly statement. 

The reason he "gets away" with stuff is because ALL of you do at times. We are REALLY trying to keep things as open as possible here, regardless of how some of you whine that you got closed or edited. 
Problem is, the more we relax the more we get taken advantage of, and the more brazen of you think you can just go off on a free for all. 

BTW, I did not close this. I was about to, but then I noticed it was already. **Edit - Thanks. I was doing the same thing when I noticed.


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## Dennis Alwon

I closed it to delete the trash -- I am reopening for the OP's sake.


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## B4T

The building dept. also has a set of specs when it comes to drilling holes in load bearing lumber but they leave it to the manuf. specs with engineered products..


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## markos korakas

Dennis Alwon said:


> I have drilled 2 " holes thru them. Theoretically, the middle part from top to bottom, does not carry any load. I bet if you stay in the first 1/3 of the length at either end you would be okay. It is probably similar to floor joist.


I would also check job spec. book. If it is mentioned in job spec. book not to do it, it could come back to haunt you. Also double check in code book under Art.300 ( wiring methods).


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## Amish Electrician

With the OP keeping mum, there's not much we can say 'for sure.'

IF the beam is made of some form of wood, I suggest a visit to the "Engineered Wood Association" website. These are the guys who write the standards for things like TJI's and glulams. www.apawood.org . Look up the (free) standards. There are different rules for different products - and the rules are different yet for 'dimensional lumber.'

The rules for 'standard' lumber can be found in the Building Code.

There are a variety of steel products out there as well. True I-Beams, H-Beams, various structural shapes made of heavy sheet steel. I am not awareof any 'standards' for these- perhaps someone else is, and will share them with us.


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## electricmanscott

Wood or steel.


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## hardworkingstiff

:laughing::laughing::thumbup:


electricmanscott said:


> Wood or steel.


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## Spark Master

Any structual member can be drilled in the center.... as long as the hole is not close to the end. like the post above.

Then you need gromets for steel work.


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## BBQ

Spark Master said:


> Any structual member can be drilled in the center.... as long as the hole is not close to the end. like the post above.



Yes, you can make a hole, if the engineer agrees it is OK is another story altogether.

I would be very careful about adding holes, replacing a beam can be expensive.


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## MechanicalDVR

Peter D said:


> Spade bit + Hole Hawg + bound up bit = injury.
> 
> I think a spade bit is the absolute worst bit to use with a Hole Hawg. Use a nail eating auger bit instead.


 
I have done this and had them bind up. One of two things happen, the end of the bit bends to the side and the drill feels like your trying to hold a wild animal til you let off the trigger. Or the end snaps off and you are left in an odd out of balance catch yourself position. Neither of which is fun or exciting.


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## Amish Electrician

Sparkmaster, you're wrong.

If you look at the 'rules' for dimensional lumber and glulams, you will find that the center of the span is not to be drilled.

That's why we first need to knw the material.


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## FCR1988

Sorry, I posted back the same day but I guess it didn't go through. They are the glued beams and the pm had the material covering where I can drill. Turned out to be center 3rd of the beam and pretty much center of the beam with holes being 3 times the diameter of the hole apart if under 1 inch. Thanks for all the posts.


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## 19kilosparky984

FCR1988 said:


> Sorry, I posted back the same day but I guess it didn't go through. They are the glued beams and the pm had the material covering where I can drill. Turned out to be center 3rd of the beam and pretty much center of the beam with holes being 3 times the diameter of the hole apart if under 1 inch. Thanks for all the posts.


Well I knew what you were talking about


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