# LU 401 makes us all look bad



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

sayn3ver said:


> Heard the story on the radio after I was tipped off by a family member who is a member of another ironworker local.
> 
> http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...orkers-union-charged-with-racketeering-arson/
> 
> ...


Can I getta hallelujah! You couldn't have said it better.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

I posted my reply before reading the article. I thought this was an ibew local. This is the reason I treat ironworkers (union or not) all the same. Just like they're a bunch of scum. I don't think I've ever had a good run in with one so they get my wrath. 
There's one on my job right now that wears a shirt that says "when in doubt knock em out" this should sum up the attitude. Oh and what's with the graffiti in conspicuous spots all over a job site. Hopefully these idiots are punished accordingly.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

While I agree with the things you've had to say about union labor and what we are _supposed_ to stand for.........I would just like to add that we are supposed to be able to supply any amount of well trained, reliable and professional manpower. I know of many locals who are slipping on those ideals as of late.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

It never happened!!:laughing::laughing:


TRUMPED UP CHARGES, These guys were framed by open shop owners:whistling2::whistling2::no:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Chrisibew440 said:


> I posted my reply before reading the article. I thought this was an ibew local. This is the reason I treat ironworkers (union or not) all the same. Just like they're a bunch of scum. I don't think I've ever had a good run in with one so they get my wrath.
> There's one on my job right now that wears a shirt that says "when in doubt knock em out" this should sum up the attitude. Oh and what's with the graffiti in conspicuous spots all over a job site. Hopefully these idiots are punished accordingly.


Unfortunately the average Joe on the Street does not know IBEW from Iron Workers, they will see and hear union.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

brian john said:


> Unfortunately the average Joe on the Street does not know IBEW from Iron Workers, they will see and hear union.


Yeah. Could be true.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Wow. Just wow. NYC ironworkers are some of the best union guys I know. Perfect gentlemen.


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

The reason I posted was the news radio report used "labor union" , "union leaders" and "union construction workers" for most of the report. They only mention ironworkers maybe twice. 

Now my brother is an ironworker and his coworkers I have met are all stand up guys. Just as you guys have stories about them I've heard enough stories about lazy Ibew guys. 

All my point was is that we (unionized construction workers of any trade) need to be stand up citizens. I mainly wear my local's tshirts because they are cheaper than buying the cheapest of cheap tshirts elsewhere. I am always aware I'm wearing them when running errands after work or on the weekend. Crazy, maybe. But for example, cursing out someone about a parking spot at the local hardware store wearing a union Tshirt woukd just reinforce the stereotype.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> The reason I posted was the news radio report used "labor union" , "union leaders" and "union construction workers" for most of the report. They only mention ironworkers maybe twice.
> 
> Now my brother is an ironworker and his coworkers I have met are all stand up guys. Just as you guys have stories about them I've heard enough stories about lazy Ibew guys.
> 
> All my point was is that we (unionized construction workers of any trade) need to be stand up citizens. I mainly wear my local's tshirts because they are cheaper than buying the cheapest of cheap tshirts elsewhere. I am always aware I'm wearing them when running errands after work or on the weekend. Crazy, maybe. But for example, cursing out someone about a parking spot at the local hardware store wearing a union Tshirt woukd just reinforce the stereotype.


Exactly the reason I don't have the IBEW bug on my truck, car, motorcycle or jacket.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> The reason I posted was the news radio report used "labor union" , "union leaders" and "union construction workers" for most of the report. They only mention ironworkers maybe twice.
> 
> Now my brother is an ironworker and his coworkers I have met are all stand up guys. Just as you guys have stories about them I've heard enough stories about lazy Ibew guys.
> 
> All my point was is that we (unionized construction workers of any trade) need to be stand up citizens. I mainly wear my local's tshirts because they are cheaper than buying the cheapest of cheap tshirts elsewhere. I am always aware I'm wearing them when running errands after work or on the weekend. Crazy, maybe. But for example, cursing out someone about a parking spot at the local hardware store wearing a union Tshirt woukd just reinforce the stereotype.


BTK (Blind Torture, Kill) was also know as a stand up guy, many very bad people have a very stand up guy front. 


As my mother use to say you have no idea what is going through the mind of that idiot sitting next to you on the bus.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The biggest harm you fellas self inflict on unions in general is this _holier than thou_ image.

I would suggest you let that go, and instead impart the attributes of labor collectivism 

You'd get a lot better milage out of honey than vinegar fellas

~CS~


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> The biggest harm you fellas self inflict on unions in general is this holier than thou image.
> 
> I would suggest you let that go, and instead impart the attributes of labor collectivism
> 
> ...


For once I actually understand what CS is saying, and I agree with him. 


sayn3ver said:


> Union labor needs to show everyone that 1) our quality of work is higher and thus the higher cost and 2) our job sites are safer.


Blatantly false statements like this do more harm than good to the union cause. There is no benefit for the customer using union labor, except for the fact that the union won't picket the jobsite causing them grief and a slowdown or all out work stoppage on site. 

The unions of the past did many good things for workers in general. The causes they fought for are now written into law for the most part, making unions an unnecessary thing of the past. 

The unions today exist for one reason. To get as much (money, benefits) for their members as possible. That's fine, representation is what the members are paying for, but for today's union to try to take credit for the actions of their forefathers or to somehow pretend that they offer the customer anything more than the non-union side is just flat out inaccurate.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

Hey look, EBFD6 found yet another union thread to tell us all how much he loves the union :thumbup::laughing:


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Hack Work said:


> Hey look, EBFD6 found yet another union thread to tell us all how much he loves the union :thumbup::laughing:


When someone makes a false statement and passes it off as fact I have to call them on it. It's just the way I am. And yes, I hate the union, this is well known. However I can admit that in the past the labor movement did some good things that I benefit from today. The problem I have is with today's unions still trying to ride the coat tails of the guys who came before them. 50 years ago the union was looking out for workers everywhere. Now, they are looking out for themselves. Don't try and make yourselfs out to be more than you are. Honesty is all I'm after. 

Btw, why is it ok for you (one of the biggest trolls on this site) to troll every topic on here, but I'm not free to express my opinion in the union section? Sorry you don't like what I have to say, but (in my area) my opinion of unions in general is the norm in the public perception. 





Actually, I'm not sorry you don't like my opinion. Too bad.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> Honesty is all I'm after.


 Yet your posts are filled with dishonesty and misinformation. You speak from a position of ignorance, the words you say are not your own from your own experience, they are from other people and born out of stereotypes. You tell stories about how things happen that only someone in the union would actually know, yet you never set foot there yourself. 

I've been on both sides. I'm FAR from a union apologist and I have been VERY critical and harsh when speaking about much of what the union does. The difference is that I am being honest and speaking from experience, not what I heard someone say. When I read what you post I have dejuvu because it's the same stories and garbage that the last 40 anti-union guys said, verbatim. 

But by all means, continue on your quest for honesty :laughing::laughing:



> Btw, why is it ok for you (one of the biggest trolls on this site) to troll every topic on here, but I'm not free to express my opinion in the union section?


 Because I am awesomer than you, and more handsome.


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

EBFD6,

I never said the quality of work WAS higher, I said we should be working to provide the highest quality of electrical work, since our price is the highest. Is high quality work available in an open shop? You bet it is. 

I think if a customer chooses to hire union then they SHOULD get the best work possible. Does that happen consistently? I doubt it. 

Ill continue to enjoy my apprenticeship and training. I have time to decide what my career trajectory is.


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## wirediron28 (Jul 18, 2013)

Chrisibew440 said:


> I posted my reply before reading the article. I thought this was an ibew local. This is the reason I treat ironworkers (union or not) all the same. Just like they're a bunch of scum. I don't think I've ever had a good run in with one so they get my wrath.
> There's one on my job right now that wears a shirt that says "when in doubt knock em out" this should sum up the attitude. Oh and what's with the graffiti in conspicuous spots all over a job site. Hopefully these idiots are punished accordingly.


As an ex-iron worker local 516, to each his own opinion but dont judge a few idiots you've met to thousands of hard working stand up Americans.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> The biggest harm you fellas self inflict on unions in general is this _holier than thou_ image.
> 
> I would suggest you let that go, and instead impart the attributes of labor collectivism
> 
> ...


Many of us are well aware of that Steve. But there are still some who act like we still have 100% market share, and feel that they are entitled to the work because their dad and grandfather did it. The country club mentality is diminishing, albeit slowly. It's going to take full attrition to dispense with it entirely. The few who still hold onto the stereotypical union mentality are finding themselves on the bench more often than not, and are taking the lessons very hard. When people face a personal struggle, they look for a scapegoat. The reality is, nobody who punches a clock is our enemy, but for some, they're the easiest ones to blame.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

EBFD6 said:


> For once I actually understand what CS is saying, and I agree with him.
> 
> 
> The unions today exist for one reason. To get as much (money, benefits) for their members as possible. That's fine, representation is what the members are paying for, but for today's union to try to take credit for the actions of their forefathers or to somehow pretend that they offer the customer anything more than the non-union side is just flat out inaccurate.


The advantage of union labor for large projects is they are able to organize a large labor pool quickly. And in many cases the training is better.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Labor is under attack in America, and unions are the fav kickin' post for _every_ faction looking to take it down a notch. 

Love or hate you fellas, if you go down we _all _do 

Buck up, pick your targets right & we'll have your back 

This divide and conquer blue vs. blue collar is what the corporatists bleeding this country dry want....

~CS~


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

sayn3ver said:


> EBFD6,
> 
> I never said the quality of work WAS higher





> our quality of work is higher


 :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

wirediron28 said:


> As an ex-iron worker local 516, to each his own opinion but dont judge a few idiots you've met to thousands of hard working stand up Americans.


It is not about what we do or don't do, it is what the Man On The Street Thinks


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Fox News is right up there with National Enquirer and TMZ.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

So what got the last post closed? The union thugs with Fox News on the report? I missed it. If you can't express your feelings without being edited, the whole post should be removed and start from scratch.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

TGGT said:


> Fox News is right up there with National Enquirer and TMZ.


Where did that come from MSNBC?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

TGGT said:


> Fox News is right up there with National Enquirer and TMZ.


Fox news is like pro wresling. Only the diehards believe it is real.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

brian john said:


> Where did that come from MSNBC?


Fox news has never strayed from the hard right. You'll never see anything positive about organized labor. The entire article was written to be paint unions and their members as negatively as possible. It's neo-con entertainment.


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## Slickster (Feb 22, 2014)

*Local 401*

What fools.

I read the entire indictment. They are in serious trouble. The case reads to me like A) there was an insider cooperating, and B) there may have been a bug in the building.

The sad part is,
the labor movement as a whole has been moving in the right direction in Philadelphia and the metro-area, AND despite the slow construction scene the past several years it looks like work is about to explode in Philadelphia starting late this year and lasting well into 2017 or even later.

Stupid....is the only word I have to describe the whole thing......:no:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Slickster said:


> What fools.
> 
> I read the entire indictment. They are in serious trouble. The case reads to me like A) there was an insider cooperating, and B) there may have been a bug in the building.
> 
> ...


Like any crime, it is only stupid if you get caught.


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## Slickster (Feb 22, 2014)

brian john said:


> Like any crime, it is only stupid if you get caught.


So, you condone beating up carpenters. LOL?????? :thumbup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Slickster said:


> So, you condone beating up carpenters. LOL?????? :thumbup:


No, but tin knockers moving conduit for their tin. YEP:no:


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Labor is under attack in America, and unions are the fav kickin' post for _every_ faction looking to take it down a notch.
> 
> Love or hate you fellas, if you go down we _all _do
> 
> ...


I can't thank you twice so.............Thanks.:thumbsup:


Would just like to add that_ Labor _is under attack in both of our fair countries ChickenDude. 
We are destined to go the way of the dodo bird and the dinosaur if the powers that be have their way.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> Labor is under attack in America, and unions are the fav kickin' post for _every_ faction looking to take it down a notch.
> 
> Love or hate you fellas, if you go down we _all _do
> 
> ...


How is labor under attack? Unions are 11% of the labor force and half of those are government workers.


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## Nastyniz (Jun 16, 2011)

Labor is under attack. I am union, I'm not an elitist saying we are the best only we can do large construction death to all scabs!!!!!! I've been on both sides of the fence. There are great non union electricians and horrible non union electricians. There are horrible union electricians and great union electricians. My point is on both sides of the fence these guys who know what they are doing are skilled labor. 
I work on many jobs where I am the only union trade on the job. I don't mess with these guys there just doing the same thing I am doing going to work to feed there family.
I don't preach unionism on them if they have a question I answer. But where I see labor is being attacked is the stuff these guys tell me. Well the ones who can speak English. Not all non union contractors are corrupt. My old boss was a great guy who paid well. But there need to be regulations in place. The non union residential market in New Jersey is flooded with illegal immigrants either being paid cash with a 1099 because they are a "subcontractor" or just being paid ridiculously low. And those contractors hurt everyone. The workers and the business owners who do it the right way legally. And my favorite, guys hired from labor ready to be carpenters and a demo crew that have zero experience. Those walls looked amazing the taper loved them. When will our trade turn into no need for skilled labor? I have plenty of stories. But back to my point regulations. Protecting the workers and the contractors who do it legally and pay their guys a fair wage, who hire American citizens. Because what contractor can bid against a crew getting paid $10 an hour cash? I feel like there is no monitoring of licensing and all of this stuff. It's a joke.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Nastyniz said:


> But there need to be regulations in place. The non union residential market in New Jersey is flooded with illegal immigrants either being paid cash with a 1099 because they are a "subcontractor" or just being paid ridiculously low. And those contractors hurt everyone. The workers and the business owners who do it the right way legally. It's a joke.


There are laws in place but in lieu of enforcing existing laws politicians propose new laws to make themselves look good while doing NOTHING about the problem, and I am saying both parties.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

How do you know someone is illegal or that they are working for cash?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> How do you know someone is illegal or that they are working for cash?


Yell ICE.


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## Nastyniz (Jun 16, 2011)

By the fact that they do not speak any English they show up in one vehicle with texas or northcarolina tags? Oh and because my coworker is Dominican so he speaks Spanish and just asks them? Lol hey man they are hard workers I give them that. But they don't care what they are being paid because they live here for a year send money back to Mexico and then go back and live good for awhile. Not all Mexicans are illegals. But it's not hard to tell them apart. The easiest way is when they pull up and there plates say new jersey and they speak english.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Nastyniz said:


> By the fact that they do not speak any English they show up in one vehicle with texas or northcarolina tags? Oh and because my coworker is Dominican so he speaks Spanish and just asks them? Lol hey man they are hard workers I give them that. But they don't care what they are being paid because they live here for a year send money back to Mexico and then go back and live good for awhile. Not all Mexicans are illegals. But it's not hard to tell them apart. The easiest way is when they pull up and there plates say new jersey and they speak english.


what about all those white guys who only speak Russian?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> Yell ICE.


inmigración


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## Nastyniz (Jun 16, 2011)

rewire said:


> what about all those white guys who only speak Russian?


Those guys too lol. But hey I am Russian so I can communicate with them. Either way all the immigrants who are not legal and work for frugal wages hurt all businesses and workers. Your acting like I said rewire hires illegals and breaks the law rewire is hurting all of us workers and the economy. I am not pointing fingers at anyone I am just expressing how I feel. And what I see in my state.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Rollie73 said:


> I can't thank you twice so.............Thanks.:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Would just like to add that_ Labor _is under attack in both of our fair countries ChickenDude.
> We are destined to go the way of the dodo bird and the dinosaur if the powers that be have their way.


I take it by "Labor" you mean Union Labor, correct? The need for labor in the trades doesn't appear to be going away any time soon. The shortage of skilled workers may just take care of the problem before too long unless someone manages to totally tank the economy.


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