# Intro and a question regarding IBEW app.



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Can't tell you what the specific application and testing procedure will be like, you'll have to call their office for info.

Test will probably consist of math up through high school level Algebra, probably some reading comprehension and basic knowledge kind of stuff. It can be tricky if you're a dumbass but otherwise, check out an algebra book from the library and brush up.

Definitely submit a resume. You're applying for a job. I always put a brief cover letter in, introducing myself and why I'm interested in applying, etc. Emphasize your contracting experience.


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

Appreciate the advice about the resume, highlighting contracting experience, etc.

I'm taking an elementary Algebra class at community college because I forgot the algebra I learned in high school. The class started last week and goes till May. That's why I was curious about the timing of the aptitude test. I'll be prepared to take a algebra test in May but I probability won't be ready by Feb. 15th. I called them but just got a generic informational voicemail, maybe I'll have to go in person to find out.

Thanks for the advice Eric


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Sam Watts said:


> Appreciate the advice about the resume, highlighting contracting experience, etc.
> 
> I'm taking an elementary Algebra class at community college because I forgot the algebra I learned in high school. The class started last week and goes till May. That's why I was curious about the timing of the aptitude test. I'll be prepared to take a algebra test in May but I probability won't be ready by Feb. 15th. I called them but just got a generic informational voicemail, maybe I'll have to go in person to find out.
> 
> Thanks for the advice Eric


They're not going to postpone the test for you. If you want to stick with the February application pool, then you'll have to cram. Otherwise you might have to wait for a later application date.


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

I didn't think they would postpone the test for me. I'm not aware if an aptitude test will be required when I put in application or if they typically call guys back for testing at a later date?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Sam Watts said:


> I didn't think they would postpone the test for me. I'm not aware if an aptitude test will be required when I put in application or if they typically call guys back for testing at a later date?


Well when I applied, I sent in all my crap (application, resume, etc.). Upon receipt and approval of minimum qualifications, they informed me of my test date. I think there was a week or two I had to wait for that, as they tested me and a few dozen other people at the same time.

After that, it was another week wait while they winnowed out the people that failed the test, and then it was time for my interview.

Then after that it was another week or two wait until I found out I was accepted. Overall it was about a month-long process, but I've heard that it takes some guys much longer than that.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sam Watts said:


> Hey there,
> 
> Looks like a nice forum you all have got here.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum...:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

erics37 said:


> Well when I applied, I sent in all my crap (application, resume, etc.). Upon receipt and approval of minimum qualifications, they informed me of my test date. I think there was a week or two I had to wait for that, as they tested me and a few dozen other people at the same time.
> 
> After that, it was another week wait while they winnowed out the people that failed the test, and then it was time for my interview.
> 
> Then after that it was another week or two wait until I found out I was accepted. Overall it was about a month-long process, but I've heard that it takes some guys much longer than that.


That's what I was looking for, thanks Eric!

Thanks Harry!


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

I put in the application last week and they told me to expect a letter in 60 days stating whether or not I will be eligible to take the aptitude test. Then I imagine another delay in scheduling that. That's actually good because I'm only about 1/4 of the way through my algebra class right now but should be finished by then.

Eric, I wanted to thank you for your advice regarding putting in a resume/cover letter and highlighting my contracting experience. I feel like having that stuff will make me stand out and get me to the next step.


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## Manbearpig (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm here in oakland as well, and when I was first getting started I applied to both locals, alameda county and San francisco. Get there early, I got there around 5 or 6 am and was like the 100th person in line. People show up in the hundreds for these things. The test has a fair amount of algebra and things like tangents and cosines. After u get a passing grade on the test you will get scheduled for an interview. At the interview there will be 6-8 people you interview with, rapid fire questions. Its a little bit intense. After that you will get a score and get put on a 2 year waiting list. If you don't get called in 2 years you have to start over. It all depends on how,many apprentices they have, how many they need, and demand for work. Right now the 595 isn't working much, and i kniw a lot of guys sitting around. I think the 6 is busier, and San Jose busier still. I got a 99 and never got called. Turns out I got affirmative actioned out of both the 595 and the 6. Met some kids of a different "persuasion" on some mixed jobs and they said they had scores much lower than mine, and still got called. Good luck man, the jatc programs are good and I was always a little upset that I didn't get that training, but you gotta take what you can get. Go on the website of the 595, I don't think there are a lot of calls going out right now. You can also try ABC, they are non union, but get you into big shops that do cool work. This is a good trade and you can do it longer than landscaping. I always see old landscapers walking bowlegged from pushing boulders around all day:laughing:


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

Informative post MBP. If you got a 99 out of 100 and never got called then I doubt it will work out for me either. When did you end up applying by the way?

If I did get in, it wouldn't bother me that I wouldn't get FT work when it's slow. I have other things I can do to make money when that happens. The main thing for me is to get a decent job/pay and benefits. I can take being laid off at times.

I looked at the ABC website and that seems like it might be a decent opportunity too. Do you know how the pay would compare to the union apprenticeship program?

I was also wondering about PG&E? Seems like that could be another good option for me if the union doesn't want me.


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## Manbearpig (Dec 15, 2011)

I would still apply. If u do get in, u won't get laid off too much. They try to keep the apprentices working. So they will throw you around to different companies all around the bay. Be prepared to travel, and usually start 630 or 7. I think abc has similar pay. I think apprentices for both start at just under 20/ hr but that could have changed. Pge has big open calls and so does ebmud. That's all line work and dam controls. Same story there, 1000 people show up, open cattle calls. It's frustrating waiting in line, but when u see who you're up against it makes u feel better. Most of the people are p.o.s. Oakland kids who never worked a day in their life. Problem is they usually get the job. But that's the bay area for ya. Good luck dude!


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

Hello Sam.
Last name has you a shoe in for electrician. I have been in this trade for about 34 years and continuously since 1980. It has been a great career choice for me and I have loved most days and jobs.
I have a great friend that is a lanscape contractor and if retirment was the plan I would trade for his job because he is 10 years closer to retiring than me. The lack of retirement savings is related to your business plan and execution more than anything. I started my retirement plan in 1996 when I actually started savings and contributing to a pension plan. Had I gone to contracting instead of government I am pretty sure my retirement plan would be a lot different but trading jobs and careers for that reason is not a recipe for success. You could find yourself back at contracting and if your retiurement plan was not working before it isn't going to get any better because you became an electrical contractor. Don't count on Union pensions either. They are better than no plan but they are not a pension like a government job is. They are a lot more like 401 k at least that is how they look to me.
So my landscaper friend went from a government job and pension to private contractor. surveyor to landscape. He is happier and richer than he ever was taking a good government job and retirment. I would estimate his pension income will be double mine. He is 9 years closer to retiring and his personal wealth is triple mine. All that from landscaping. He is good at business and from what i know of most contractors is they are not all good business people. I read that neary 43% of all contractors are working at or below the break even point. That tells me that only 57% of contractors stand a chance at retiring.
Oh did I mention he has been saving for retirement about as long as me? I have a good government job with a good pension and good wages so I will be OK but I won't be living in the sunny south during winter. So don't change jobs in the hope you can retire but make a retirement plan for what ever you are doing and make the plan work.


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## TattooMan (Feb 10, 2012)

If the inside program is full or slow you can look into the Sound and Communication program. I'm working every day out of the 332 and I have friends working out of the 595 that are working every day as well. 

Good luck!


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

@MBP - I'm definitely going to still apply. I'm just not going to be too optimistic about getting into the union. The pay does start at $18hr. btw. I don't know how much the journeymen make for sure, but I think it's $40hr.+
I know what you mean about the competition though, that is somewhat reassuring.

@Mshea - Yes you're right, that I could save and manage my own retirement being self employed and that has nothing to do with landscaping. It's something that hasn't happened though. All my spare money gets invested in the business or pays for living expenses. I'm one of those contractors who is just scraping by and am looking for a job with benefits for me and my family. Your friend is an extremely successful landscaper and that's great, but it doesn't work out that way for everybody. He probability runs crews, and that is not something I'm interested in doing.

If I were to get a job as a landscaper for a company with benefits I'd make about $20 an hour maybe. That's about what electrician apprentice pay starts at, pay is a significant factor. There are lots of factors leading me to a career change and I can't even be confident that electrician is right one, but it's worth a good look at imo.


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks TattooMan, I'll look into that.


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## Manbearpig (Dec 15, 2011)

You'll figure it out dude. But remember that the grass is always greener on the other side, and you might not have it as bad as you think. I love this trade and I'm glad I picked it but there's plenty of sh**$y days and horrible conditions. I've had bad weeks and thought about doing other things, but it can be dangerous to make life changing decisions when your really just stuck in a rutt:thumbsup: improvise, adapt, and overcome!


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'd look at the other trades also. I hear a lot less people talking about being a plumber or pipe fitter or welder but those all great trades. A lot of people are drawn to electrical because it's supposed to be the thinking persons trade. But in reality it's mostly just a lot of hard, dangerous work like all the trades.


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

I have given it some thought, and came to the conclusion that electrician would probability be the best assuming I can get into a good apprenticeship program. I say that because it's a skill set that would open up a lot of options in the future besides just working construction (plant work, utilities, etc.) 

If electrician doesn't work out I'll likely go carpentry though. I'm working on a certificate in carpentry from a local community college while I wait and see if make it into the IBEW union. Carpentry skills will help me with my landscaping business plus I have the option of eventually getting into home improvement/remodel business so I can't really go wrong with that. 

I'd be fine with some aspects of plumbing but I really don't think I'd want to be spend much time working in public restrooms or unclogging pipes. There are some others to consider though like you say, hvac might be another good one.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Try 332 and Local 6. If it's something you really want to try, get a job at an open shop if you can't get in right away. You may even find a home and not need/want to join afterall, I started open and joining 332 was probably the best career move I could ever make. The suggestion to look into other trades is good also. The tin knockers(sheet metal/ac)guys make great money and have a strong local.
332 is about to bust wide open, it's a walk right now, which means guys from sister local's will have no problem working here. This will open up 595 and should really increase your chances


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## norcalbay (Jun 17, 2008)

595 is a walkthrough as well. Only 50 guys on book1


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## Sam Watts (Jan 12, 2012)

That does sound promising, thanks for the update


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