# GROUNDMAN responsibilities??



## biggityboy (May 19, 2010)

So the journeyman I was working with was in a lift with a harness on and not tied off. I was the "groundman" trying to keep an eye out on traffic in the mall parking lot. I am a 4th year apprentice. OSHA busted him for it. Both he and I were pulled in to the office and suspended two weeks. Him for not tying off and me for him not tying off. If I was the person in the bucket as I have been many times before. It is MY responsibility to tie off and practice safe habits. Is this right!?!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

NO. Your company just took advantage of a situation and didn't reassign you so they would not have to pay you.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

So when the journeyman I'm working with decides to work hot...it's my responsibility to make sure that he's

A.) Not working hot
B.) If he is working hot, taking the proper precautions?

Seems a little backwards to me.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

That sounds screwed up. I think the person in the lift should be responsible enough to tie off by himself. What to they want you to do go to the bathroom with him and make sure he wipes his butt.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Eisa5AZ20W0&feature=related


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

...........


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyz_2DEah4o&feature=related


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## biggityboy (May 19, 2010)

I agree I think nobody but myself is responsible for my actions. I'm irritated with the whole thing. I'm paying for somebody elses disregard of the rules. And also with the fact that this journeyman just sat there and didn't say anything and let us both go down for his actions


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

That's crap. Why was OSHA even there? CalOSHA doesn't make suprise visits. They wouldn't even bother getting out of their cars if they saw some of the pictures that 480 has posted. They are like cops, they show up after the fact.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you definitely got the shaft on this one. 

As to why Osha was there ? I have notice, in the last couple months, the following things:
- the cops in my area have been putting up speeding traps and stopping cars for any minor violation constantly, plus I noticed they have a couple new unmarked cars.
- I was at a 7 eleven in VA the other day, and a guy that works there was telling me he got a ticket for littering - the cop stopped him and said he threw a cigarrette out the window. (the guy doesn't smoke)
- some guy told me in VA they have started a new tax - if you have a salt shaker on the table at a restaurant they add a $5.00 tax to the meal


I think the powers that be are using anything and everything to raise money so they can keep their jobs.

Either way, though, you got the shaft. I would keep your mouth shut for now, but someday when the time is right (at some BS safety meeting where the big bosses are there and some blowhard says the wrong thing), drop a deuce right in the middle of it with that story.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

knowshorts said:


> That's crap. Why was OSHA even there? CalOSHA doesn't make suprise visits. They wouldn't even bother getting out of their cars if they saw some of the pictures that 480 has posted. They are like cops, they show up after the fact.


 That is pretty much the way it is here.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

biggityboy said:


> So the journeyman I was working with was in a lift with a harness on and not tied off. I was the "groundman" trying to keep an eye out on traffic in the mall parking lot. I am a 4th year apprentice. OSHA busted him for it. Both he and I were pulled in to the office and suspended two weeks. Him for not tying off and me for him not tying off. If I was the person in the bucket as I have been many times before. It is MY responsibility to tie off and practice safe habits. Is this right!?!


 Is the company that you work for hurting for money and looking for reason's to save some money?


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## MaintenanceGeek (May 18, 2010)

biggityboy said:


> So the journeyman I was working with was in a lift with a harness on and not tied off. I was the "groundman" trying to keep an eye out on traffic in the mall parking lot. I am a 4th year apprentice. OSHA busted him for it. Both he and I were pulled in to the office and suspended two weeks. Him for not tying off and me for him not tying off. If I was the person in the bucket as I have been many times before. It is MY responsibility to tie off and practice safe habits. Is this right!?!


The journeyman is the one at fault. However, it too is your responsibilty to remind him of his actions. He should be the one, not you getting suspended. 
The company is playing fair.

Always (CYA) speak up, if you think something is wrong. 
Especialy when it come to safety. Imagine you were called to court, and the Judge asked you did you see anthing? did you say something to him? do you know the rules for operating a man lift? Have you been trained?Under oath you have to say YES. 

Think of the position you are in now.


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## biggityboy (May 19, 2010)

Yeah to answer a couple questions. OSHA likes to stop around jobs here and check up on people. As far as my employer hurting for money... things are a little slower than usual for this time of year. We have been incident free until a couple months ago they had an incident where a journeyman backed into a 35kv line and this journeyman was not even given a slap on the hand. Of course OSHA was all over it... So now my employer is trying to make an example or something...


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## biggityboy (May 19, 2010)

But in order to save money... that's stupid because both of us have reliable customers that come to us... so they definitely won't be saving money by doing this


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

Biggity-Not sure whether or not you are IBEW,but if so, have you talked with your training director and your BA?Your journeyman should have went to bat on your behalf instead of throwing you under the bus.If a grievance filed on your behalf is successful,you may eventually be paid for that time off.You could,however,win the battle and loose the war,getting yourself laid-off.The BA and or training director may be able to have the matter resolved informally.


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

:huh:Why wasn't he tied off? I don't understand people that go through the effort of putting the harness on but yet are to lazy to reach down and clip in. Kind of like the guy that wears his safety glasses around his neck but yet gets dust in his eyes from drilling above his head


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I am absolutely against punishing a man because of the actions of another. I remember back in elementary school, the teacher would make everyone put their heads down on the desk because too many people were talking. I never liked it then, and I don't like treatment like that in my adulthood. 

On a similar note, I was sent home for three days in 1994 or 5 for doing exactly what my bosses told me to do. I knew full well it wouldn't work, but he was one of these guys you had to prove it to. When what he told me to do, in fact, didn't work, I got 3 days off because I didn't speak up. Huh? Not only do they hold me responsible for my own actions (which I have no problem with), but they hold me responsible for dumb decisions by management.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

when I was a helper, my boss was going around to a few different jobs, so he told me to do the time for the week. so I did. next week he asks me why he only got 7 3/4 hours for one of the days he was there. I told him he was 15 min late that day. that was the last time he had me do the time for when we were working together.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

What kind of lift was it? scissor or boom? 


In a scissor lift you are not required by OSHA to tie off unless leaning out of the box. If the company has a safety requirement then that surpasses OSHA.

I do believe it is 1 standard nationwide. 

In a boom, you have to be tied off no matter if you never get more than 3 ft off the ground.

Him wearing a harness is weird if he wasn't going to clip though..

I really think that your company was trying to CTA with punishing all involved because with the fines they must have had small as first fines are, they really don't want the second or even third incident fines. 

My last boss had a couple of those incidents and the next fine they get will probably put them under. I think the next fine is $270,000


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## biggityboy (May 19, 2010)

It was a boom....


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

wildleg said:


> when I was a helper, my boss was going around to a few different jobs, so he told me to do the time for the week. so I did. next week he asks me why he only got 7 3/4 hours for one of the days he was there. I told him he was 15 min late that day. that was the last time he had me do the time for when we were working together.


 :laughing: You sound like the guy that I used to work for. I never had any problems, but some guy's would be late 2 or 3 times a week.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I am absolutely against punishing a man because of the actions of another. I remember back in elementary school, the teacher would make everyone put their heads down on the desk because too many people were talking. I never liked it then, and I don't like treatment like that in my adulthood.
> 
> On a similar note, I was sent home for three days in 1994 or 5 for doing exactly what my bosses told me to do. I knew full well it wouldn't work, but he was one of these guys you had to prove it to. When what he told me to do, in fact, didn't work, I got 3 days off because I didn't speak up. Huh? Not only do they hold me responsible for my own actions (which I have no problem with), but they hold me responsible for dumb decisions by management.


Dude, you weren't in the Marine Corps.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Maybe just luck or just good timing, Never in my 32 years in this trade have I ran into an OSHA inspector. Never. Construction, Government Jobs, Industrial factory jobs included. I have always heard about OSHA, yet they have never visited anywhere I worked. 
Everywhere (except on construction sites) I have worked required anyone above a few feet off the ground to be tied off. Ladders, lifts and cheery pickers included.
The construction work was most likely before safety became so popular.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

the last time I saw an actual OSHA inspector was right before Reagan reduced the funding for Osah and EPA so they didn't have enough money to enforce the laws (they cut inspectors). I got a ticket for a cord with a piece of tape on it (even though the tape was just for identification). Haven't seen one since (that I know of).


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