# Crimper Ignorance



## shocksystems (Apr 25, 2009)

All this talk about crimpers on here lately .....

This seems ridiculous but I cannot figure out what all the things are I need to occasionally splice cables. Say #3, #4 & #6 CU, #1, #2 & 4/0 AL

Crimper? - Everyone seems to mention Burndy MD6-8
Dies? 
Crimp Sleeves?
Heat Shrink?
Are the crimp sleeves universal? Will they fit in most any brand crimper?
And what about C crimps, how are they different? Different sleeves and different dies? Will the same crimper work?

And what about dieless crimpers, are they where the future is at?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

All you need are splicer/reducers. HD and the supply houses I go to have them for cheap money. The fit in a small bin and require no special tools to use. 

Only a stupid socialist would say that crimping is the best method to use.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MTW said:


> All you need are splicer/reducers. HD and the supply houses I go to have them for cheap money. The fit in a small bin and require no special tools to use.
> 
> Only a stupid socialist would say that crimping is the best method to use.


We were called out to remove some ratty setscrew connectors and crimp em like real electricians.
Note, no PPE. We didn't want them to know we were Union electricians. :laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MTW said:


> All you need are splicer/reducers. HD and the supply houses I go to have them for cheap money. The fit in a small bin and require no special tools to use.
> 
> Only a stupid socialist would say that crimping is the best method to use.


Seems like when I run into those splice reducers it's always a handiman job and for what ever reason the screws are loose and the tape job, some with no tape is very poor.
For me, they should have breakaway bolt heads and come with a piece of cold shrink to mitigate the risk of a poor installation.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I would say that we crimp “fairly often”. We use the Burndy MD6-8 tool and have a selection of dies for the tool. You are right, there are tons of different dies and they are expensive. There are a number of cross reference charts but we generally stick with one type of crimp to match our dies. Most are coloured coded (idiot proof for me!) and you just match up the die colour to the crimp colour.

When there is not a requirement to conserve space we use the Blackburn series of crimps such as the WR159 (#6 to #6) with the manufactured “O die” built into the tool. If we need to conserve space or it is in an area that we want it to look better we will use the Panduit SCS6-L (#6 to #6) barrel crimp and the W5CRT dies that we add into the tool.

For most applications (grounding, bonding, power), we are not allowed to use any sort of set-screw / split-bolt termination, our code specifies a compression or welded connection, but I know you may have different rules.

Cheers

John


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

Yescom 10 Ton Hydraulic Wire Battery Cable Lug Terminal Crimper Crimping Tool with 9 Dies https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KS4R3PI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Skq2zbPTD1C9D


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Drsparky14 said:


> Yescom 10 Ton Hydraulic Wire Battery Cable Lug Terminal Crimper Crimping Tool with 9 Dies https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KS4R3PI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Skq2zbPTD1C9D


I would say the reviews support the price...

Cheers

John


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I don't have to crimp very often and I used to have an old retired guy I'm friends with who has an MD-6 come off the bench to help me out when I need them. 

Now I figure on just borrowing @HackWork 's he bought two super deluxe crimpers I told him about, one's nice and small from t&b and is enough for most crimps where grounding and bonding requirements call for an irreversible splice, the other one is a big ass beast for big wires.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

shocksystems said:


> And what about dieless crimpers, are they where the future is at?


I love a dieless crimper, especially the 4-point crimpers. They just cost a bit more, but they give you expanded wire ranges (some UL listed). 

I needed to splice a class H stranded cable to code wire (500 to 500). Used a 600 butt splice to do this and it was a UL listed crimp, you could only do it with a dieless crimper.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

TEMCo Hydraulic Cable Lug Crimper TH0005 - 11 US TON 6 AWG to 600 MCM Electrical Terminal Cable Wire Tool Kit 5 YEAR WARRANTY https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HJXG3KM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_DEt2zb71CB2AT


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I would also go with the MD-6 tool. Kearney makes the same tool. If you do a ton of splicing, you might want a hydraulic or battery operated one. If you want occasional one size fits all, go with the MD-6

The tool has two built in dies. The two dies along with the WR (wide range) H taps should handle everything you need. The wide range H taps can but splice, parallel splice and tap just about anything, and do it with only seven different sizes. It will also do smaller c crimps, and street light taps. 

The one built in die can also accept type W dies. So later, if you want, you can add more dies. The type W dies are color coded. 

A quick search on eBay shows several Kearney crimp tools for under $100. 

Here's a close up of mine. You can see the one die has two pin on springs that hold the W dies in.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

My crimper stable for normal electrical work. 

1. MD6 with W-O dies

2. Old indent style 

3. TBM21E

4. T&B Sta-Kon


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It's funny watching people make excuses why set screw barrels splices are bad, yet they land the same conductors in lugs that are essentially the same thing.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I have both die type as well as dieless .The one that gets used the most is the Burndy Y644M hydraulic dieless. From #6 to 1000 MCM it will handle it however I use the Burndy Y29 on #2 and smaller it does a nicer looking job on the smaller sizes than the Y644M. 

When I work on the private rail cars the head end power (HEP) is 4/0 fine stranded and the Y644M does excellent job on that.
The main complaint I have with die crimpers is to many expensive parts to loose.

There is a school of thought that says that you should not use dieless crimpers on medium and high voltage cables because the barrel is triangular shaped after crimping and causes unequal stress on the termination insulation . Not doing high voltage work outside of regular work that is not a issue for me.

LC


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

backstay said:


> My crimper stable for normal electrical work.
> 
> 1. MD6 with W-O dies
> 
> ...


Are you holding out on us? I thought you would have an MC4 crimper to do all that solar. Does one of the ones shown also do MC4 connectors?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

cabletie said:


> Are you holding out on us? I thought you would have an MC4 crimper to do all that solar. Does one of the ones shown also do MC4 connectors?


My crimper stable for *normal* electrical work. 

I didn't include the MC4 or the telephone/data crimpers


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

I guess I'm the only one with a burndy our840


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> I guess I'm the only one with a burndy our840


I still have an Burndy MRC840, works great. 

I used to have a TBM8-750M, sold it when I quit working full time (just not going to need something that big). 

I saw this one early this year, and I liked it a lot. 
https://commerce.ilsco.com/documents/PDF/TechnicalDrawing/IDT-6.pdf


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> It's funny watching people make excuses why set screw barrels splices are bad, yet they land the same conductors in lugs that are essentially the same thing.


That would be a termination.
Problem is, introducing a extra point of failure.
There are people on this forum that have much more experience than my 30 plus years in the trade and some that test electrical systems for a living. I can't recall in my travels finding a hy- pressed splice failing. Its usually the insulation around that type of splice.
I've cut open a dozen or more hy-pressed splices to find that the conductor and the crimp sleeve usually look like one piece of metal.
It's very, very routine to find a failed set screw splice or termination.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> That would be a termination.


 Makes no difference.


> Problem is, introducing a extra point of failure.


 That point of failure is there whether you use a crimp or a polaris. It makes no different either way.


> There are people on this forum that have much more experience than my 30 plus years in the trade and some that test electrical systems for a living. I can't recall in my travels finding a hy- pressed splice failing. Its usually the insulation around that type of splice.
> I've cut open a dozen or more hy-pressed splices to find that the conductor and the crimp sleeve usually look like one piece of metal.
> It's very, very routine to find a failed set screw splice or termination.


Yet we use them all the time and the world still goes 'round.

I think you are really embellishing the amount of set screw connections that fail. It's not a big epidemic. If it was, we would be using a different method. And those that do fail are usually because some monkey made them too _tight_ (see Big John's posts on cold flow).

A properly made set screw connection in a lug or barrel reducer will be fine. Acting like you are making a job so much better because you crimped 1 connection in the run while the other 4 are standard set screw connections is silliness.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Seems to me the choices are obvious.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Only an idiot would spend $27 on a split bolt when you could spend $5 on a set screw barrel. And you don't even need a $300 crimper.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Makes no difference.
> That point of failure is there whether you use a crimp or a polaris. It makes no different either way.
> 
> Yet we use them all the time and the world still goes 'round.
> ...



Stop bringing facts and logic into this.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Other than residential, If I am going to land aluminum under a lug, It usually gets one of these. And it's for good reason. Trade slang around here, it would be called a Lollypop.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I am old school and I just think that crimp lugs do a better looking and a better installation than mechanical lugs.
That is just my opinion. 
LC


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

On a technical note, how do you know how many pounds of force a connection needs? I see 6 ton, 10 ton, etc


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> On a technical note, how do you know how many pounds of force a connection needs? I see 6 ton, 10 ton, etc


Most of the time you buy the tool made by the lug manufacturer you use. Then you just check their website for the listed connections.


Edit: Like for the IDT-6, you can use any of the series listed here.

https://commerce.ilsco.com/documents/PDF/TechnicalDrawing/IDT-6.pdf


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Most of the time you buy the tool made by the lug manufacturer you use. Then you just check their website for the listed connections.


So here's a specific example. The Blackburn IKL47 uses and 840 die. If I crimp that with anything than a T&B crimper, such as my OUR840 with an X-840 die, that wouldn't be a listed connection?

I haven't had one fail but an electric crimper is say 6 tons of force, where my burndy ratchet crimper is only 4 tons. I've always wondered why they don't post force specs like torque specs.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Because the crimper stops when the crimp is complete. Your crimper only needs enough force to close all the way. It's not like a lug that will keep turning and you have to stop turning at a specific torque measurement.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> So here's a specific example. The Blackburn IKL47 uses and 840 die. If I crimp that with anything than a T&B crimper, such as my OUR840 with an X-840 die, that wouldn't be a listed connection?


 If the crimper is listed for use with the product, then it's a listed connnection. If it's not then it's not. Sounds silly, but that's basically it.


> I haven't had one fail but an electric crimper is say 6 tons of force, where my burndy ratchet crimper is only 4 tons. I've always wondered why they don't post force specs like torque specs.


No one is going to test someone else's crimper for their product. I have made crimps that were not listed and never lost sleep (nor had a failure). I try to use materials and tools that give me a listed crimp, but it's not always easily done.

Edit: I spoke with Ilsco years ago and they told me if I sent them a crimped sample that they would analyze it and let me know if it was adequate (in other words approve the tool I used for that product). I had the T&B8-750M and wanted to use Ilsco's product.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Because the crimper stops when the crimp is complete. Your crimper only needs enough force to close all the way. It's not like a lug that will keep turning and you have to stop turning at a specific torque measurement.


That makes since, never thought of it like that for some reason. As long as it cycles completely, even if I had a tough time squeezing the handles, it's a solid crimp. I've got trump hands, crimpers can be tough for me on larger sizes.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Our specs require irreversible connections for most work. Mechanical splices have a history of failing IR scans so we don't allow them, mechanical lugs are also _persona non grata_.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Crimped and mechanical connections rely on deforming the cable to the point where the copper cold welds (smears) making true intimate contact. Crimped lugs eliminate operator error to a better degree and you can't reuse them. Mechanical lugs can fail to be tightened properly (with a torque wrench or screwdriver) which most electricians refuse to use. IAEA tested electrician "accuracy" and it was pretty bad, just as bad as mechanics. You can also gall threads and have other problems. The wire if done properly should be trimmed and stripped again if reused in mechanical lugs, another thing few actually do. Finally and this is more of a crimp problem, fine strand wire can fail to get crimped and pull out or break in the wrong lugs, something UL addressed a few years ago. For what its worth we exclusively do crimped lugs at work for these reasons except if the lugs are built into the equipment.

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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Most places I have worked small lugs 18 to 10 are T&B and above 8 are Burndy. (This might be a regional thing) Now meter & relay / protection & control people seem to love Burndy uninsulated ring lugs for their wiring. Also they like to the indent facing out.
LC


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

The indent facing out is for inspection. Not that you can actually inspect a lug except if you cut it in half..

Ring lugs are preferred because if you don't properly tighten the screw, they can't fall out. And if you need to make a splice, just bolt them together. The torque wrench argument strikes again. With hand tightening torque accuracy is +/-50% (more like 0/-50%). With a torque wrench it goes to +/-25%. With moly anti-seize or locktite it gets a little better. With load indicating washers it drops to +/-5%, about the same accuracy as using a crimper. Unfortunately I've looked but haven't found load indicating washers in common electrical sizes, only structural ones. I use torque sticks in an impact wrench myself on bigger lugs...just rattle it down until it stops, quick and easy.

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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

What got me looking at using a dieless crimper is I used to do a lot of terminations of class H wire (fine strand). The supply house said you go up a size on the lug (in other words, use a #1 lug for a #2 wire). I asked which die to use, the one for the #1 (which I thought would be too loose) or the one for #2 wire (which I thought would be too tight since the fine stranded wire had a larger OD). It seemed to make a lot of sense to use a crimper that crimped to a pressure instead of one that used a die to crimp to a diameter.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

You can use Burndy Navy Lugs on fine stranded wire they are in the Burndy catalog. Where I am they have to be ordered but they come in real quick.
You don't need to oversize Navy Lugs.
LC.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Here is an example of what concerned me. Which die do I use on #1 code wire and #2 class H stranding?


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## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

Wow, there is quite a few crimp options. So it looks like the MD6/ND-60 has the BG crimp on the nose, and the rear d3 crimp. The Md-6-8/ND-58 has a "O" crimp on the nose, and a rear d3.

It would appear that the tools that are the "O"/"D3" type are the most versatile, because they will crimp h taps from 8-4/0. The smaller of which in the nose slot. But with a BG die for the d3 slot, you can crimp insulinks, or any other 5/8 barrel crimp with it.

What are the "W" dies for?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Here is an example of what concerned me. Which die do I use on #1 code wire and #2 class H stranding?


It says code green, which is #1


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> It says code green, which is #1


And that is the consensus. However, I'm not comfortable with crimping a #2 wire to a #1 spec'd diameter, that's why I switched to a dieless crimper.

Edit: The #2 being class H stranding.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

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```



hardworkingstiff said:


> And that is the consensus. However, I'm not comfortable with crimping a #2 wire to a #1 spec'd diameter, that's why I switched to a dieless crimper.
> 
> Edit: The #2 being class H stranding.


But the connector is rated for it in the link. I wouldn't be comfortable with "that's what everyone does" from the supply house guys, but if the manufacturer rates it for that in the spec sheet, why not?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> But the connector is rated for it in the link. I wouldn't be comfortable with "that's what everyone does" from the supply house guys, but if the manufacturer rates it for that in the spec sheet, why not?


It was the way I felt, and since I was the boss, I could do that. 

I think I'll call Ilsco tomorrow and talk with them. I'm just sitting around most of the day killing time, so it will give me something to do.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

ppsh said:


> Wow, there is quite a few crimp options. So it looks like the MD6/ND-60 has the BG crimp on the nose, and the rear d3 crimp. The Md-6-8/ND-58 has a "O" crimp on the nose, and a rear d3.
> 
> It would appear that the tools that are the "O"/"D3" type are the most versatile, because they will crimp h taps from 8-4/0. The smaller of which in the nose slot. But with a BG die for the d3 slot, you can crimp insulinks, or any other 5/8 barrel crimp with it.
> 
> What are the "W" dies for?


Some of the smaller h taps use the W-O. I have the MD6. It has a 5/8 and D. The 5/8 is what I use for copper c-crimps. The D is for the larger h taps, 3/0-4/0. The W-O is for the 6-2/0 h taps.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Generally speaking if you look at some lugs in the Burney catalog the fine strand ones are just one size larger up to a certain point. It makes sense too. There are more air gaps in fine strand. You get odd sizes too on for instance DLO where a "500" becomes 535 MCM. This is also the range where the lugs are actually different. A 535 lug is NOT a 600 lug. It is a distinctly different lug and quite rare (special order). Not that 500 and 600 lugs aren't always special order.

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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

hardworkingstiff said:


> It was the way I felt, and since I was the boss, I could do that.
> 
> I think I'll call Ilsco tomorrow and talk with them. I'm just sitting around most of the day killing time, so it will give me something to do.


Is there a dieless crimper under $1000? I'd go that way but the boss doesn't like the $1500-$2500 price tags.

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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

paulengr said:


> Is there a dieless crimper under $1000? I'd go that way but the boss doesn't like the $1500-$2500 price tags.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab 2 using Tapatalk


You can get a used one for that. I probably would not have bought one if I wasn't doing all that marina work. Most everything else I've done the Burndy MRC840 was sufficient. I did not use H-taps so this was not a problem. I don't think a dieless does H-taps either.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Makes no difference.
> That point of failure is there whether you use a crimp or a polaris. It makes no different either way.
> 
> Yet we use them all the time and the world still goes 'round.
> ...




I've seen many Polaris connectors or trade slang "sweethearts" fail and burn up the junction box. I've seen one completely melt an 8x8x4 plastic box. 

I've never seen a compression crimp fail. (Yet)


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Drsparky14 said:


> I've seen many Polaris connectors or trade slang "sweethearts" fail and burn up the junction box. I've seen one completely melt an 8x8x4 plastic box.
> 
> I've never seen a compression crimp fail. (Yet)
> 
> ...


You quoted my post where I explained the likely reason why:



> And those that do fail are usually because some monkey made them too tight (see Big John's posts on cold flow).


I refuse to buy into the notion that something is bad just because _other people_ installed it incorrectly. 

Let me ask you a question. How many of _your own_ set screw style lug or barrel (including Polaris) connections that you have properly torqued ended up failing?


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Waaaay back many years ago when I was an apprentice we installed some Kearney's (split bolts) on some 500MCM wire. There were 8 of them in a huge junction box, at least 4 ft. x 4 ft.

We would tighten them up with pipe wrenches then take a small sledge hammer and smack them several times, then tighten again. 

The taping alone took hours. It was 480VAC.

It was the only time I used them on such big wire. It did not seem like a good way to make a splice.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

So the argument in favor of crimps is that it eliminates installer error because no torque setting is required to install. In other words, let's condemn a method (setscrew connectors) because many electricians are hacks and don't install equipment correctly. 

Do you see how pathetic this argumentation is?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

FWIW, I have seen crimps crack/split. And I am definitely not the only one here to see that. I think we have a bit of selective memory going on here.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> FWIW, I have seen crimps crack/split. And I am definitely not the only one here to see that. I think we have a bit of selective memory going on here.


:thumbsup:

Crimps are subject to installer error as well - mismatched crimps and dies and the crimper not being calibrated properly.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

This discussion seems to be moving in the “ground pin up or ground pin down” direction. There are obvious advantages for both styles / types of connectors. In our case, there are little options for grounding, bonding or power (feeder / service) situations; we must use compression connectors. Branch circuit termination is open season.
The biggest reason people see set-screw failure I think (and I agree with many) is the incorrect installation methods. All of us see lug failures all the time in meter sockets, splitters, panels, etc; these are no different than the set-screw type connectors. Also by nature, the design of the set-screw style connector will allow foreign material (moisture, dirt, insects, etc) into the void areas where the cable (usually copper) is absent and not in intimate contact with the connector; this causes contamination and ultimate failure. There is less of an issue in this area with compression style connectors but this does not necessarily make one better over the other.
I think the key is to use the proper connection(or) in the right application. I would be more apt to use a compression connector lets say underground and a set-screw connector in a controlled (interior) environment.
In this picture we ended up using both… don’t know why actually, probably did not have the right size connector for the bond wire…

Cheers

John


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

HackWork said:


> You quoted my post where I explained the likely reason why:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have done many sweetheart connections and have had two fail on me. Of those two, the screws were set with a torque screwdriver and were properly stripped to the length required per specs. Funny that both that failed were on copper and not aluminum. 

But I have also done thousands of crimps and haven't had a single one go bad. I usually use a 5 ton hydraulic crimper with the proper sized die inserted for the purpose. 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Drsparky14 said:


> I have done many sweetheart connections and have had two fail on me. Of those two, the screws were set with a torque screwdriver and were properly stripped to the length required per specs. Funny that both that failed were on copper and not aluminum.


What failed? 

If you used a screwdriver to tighten them, it must have been small gauge wire. 

I've noticed that some set screw barrels spec a very wide range and say they can do very small wire, such as #2-#14. But I wouldn't trust stranded #14 in there. It's too small, it could get pushed to the side of the screw and not make good contact.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> This discussion seems to be moving in the “ground pin up or ground pin down” direction. There are obvious advantages for both styles / types of connectors. In our case, there are little options for grounding, bonding or power (feeder / service) situations; we must use compression connectors. Branch circuit termination is open season.
> The biggest reason people see set-screw failure I think (and I agree with many) is the incorrect installation methods. All of us see lug failures all the time in meter sockets, splitters, panels, etc; these are no different than the set-screw type connectors. Also by nature, the design of the set-screw style connector will allow foreign material (moisture, dirt, insects, etc) into the void areas where the cable (usually copper) is absent and not in intimate contact with the connector; this causes contamination and ultimate failure. There is less of an issue in this area with compression style connectors but this does not necessarily make one better over the other.
> I think the key is to use the proper connection(or) in the right application. I would be more apt to use a compression connector lets say underground and a set-screw connector in a controlled (interior) environment.
> In this picture we ended up using both… don’t know why actually, probably did not have the right size connector for the bond wire…
> ...


What kind of cable is in that sealtight?


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

HackWork said:


> What failed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




#6 thhn was in one and #4 in the other 


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> What kind of cable is in that sealtight?


That is not sealtite. In Canada we have a cable called teck90. It is a composite cable made in various conductor sizes and size configurations. Has multiple uses such as direct burial, surface exposed, combustible and non-combustible construction.

When used with approved connectors, it can be used in EP applications. Pretty much our "go to" cable for must applications now that has an exterior or harsh element.

Many ECs are using it now instead of pipe because the labour savings easily covers the price difference.

Cheers

John


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

I've seen multiple failures with Polaris style aka Insultaps in motor peckerheads. In this application other than torque issues that show up pretty quickly, they always fail because they rub against the box until the insulation is chafed through. This is also a problem with basically anything else though. Many electricians "solve" it by making giant tape balls out of 130C. 3M suggests using their boots or lining the box with mastic tape. I always try to tape or cable tie my splices to center them in the box. Another electrician I knew would pack the peckerhead solid in vibrating screens with packing peanuts...sort of the theory that instead of avoiding contact, pack it so tight that it moves as a solid mass. I've seen and used duct seal the same way. Always wondered about cooling though, and I have seen the peanuts shrivel or crush up after a few months service but duct seal is too dense for that.

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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Here is an example of what concerned me. Which die do I use on #1 code wire and #2 class H stranding?





matt1124 said:


> It says code green, which is #1


I called Burndy tech support this morning about this specific lug. The person on the end of the phone said he thought the connection with this lug to a #2 fine strand cable (class H) might work at first but would fail because it would be a little too loose. 

He suggest a different lug or to use an indent tool with a proper adapter (which I really didn't understand but didn't want to pursue it), his comment was it would get expensive. He liked the idea of using a dieless crimper. 

He was perplexed by the information on the data sheet in that link because he did not think it was a good crimp (#2 flex to that #1 lug using a #1 die). I think he's taking his concern up the ladder.


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## Chrismcd (Apr 9, 2014)

Burndy at one point made a die less adjustable crimper I can not for the life of me remember the model number. At a previous employer we had one it will adjustable on the crimp section from a thumb nut and worked wonders. It was pretty old so I doubt they make them anymore with the mark up on dies 


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