# PVC service with AL wiring



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Although I prefer copper I have been using aluminum as of late because of the price. For 100 amp I would probably use copper. As far as the carlon blue-- I will not respond. :blink:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> What are your opinions on installing a 100 amp service upgrade with aluminum conductors? The only copper used on the job will be for the ground rods because it has to be copper by code. Was also thinking about using a Carlon blue 4" round box for a pull chain light. What do you think?


I seldom use copper, mostly I work on lot line metering, so it's underground to the house. And that is always AL here.


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## BurtiElectric (Jan 11, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> What are your opinions on installing a 100 amp service upgrade with aluminum conductors? The only copper used on the job will be for the ground rods because it has to be copper by code. Was also thinking about using a Carlon blue 4" round box for a pull chain light. What do you think?


I think you should put the Aluminum in the PVC and call it a day. I always put up aluminum services unless the customer specifies otherwise.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You have to sell what the area you are working in uses...

Having AL on the line side of the MP makes sense since you are connecting to AL from the PoCo..

I have only sold ONE AL service here in the last (30)+ years... people want CU and don't mind paying for it..


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't ask the customer what they want. Well, other than a 100 amp or 200 amp. They get what I give them.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I 've done a few recently , #2 al xlpe in sch 80 pvc. Only used #6 solid cu for WM and GR. I'm sitting on a 450' spool of #4 cu thhn now so the next ones will be copper.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

It's been a looooong time since I used copper for a service.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Why would you NOT use AL?

[why its not a 200A is the next question...]


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Install aluminum, charge for copper.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm actually pretty excited about this one tomorrow for no particular reason other than I'll be improving someones electrical system (and this one's a real mess!).


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Nice huh? This is the panel we're (me, and the business) are upgrading today.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> Nice huh? This is the panel we're (me, and the business) are upgrading today.


It's going to take more than a panel to fix that.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> Nice huh? This is the panel we're (me, and the business) are upgrading today.


Was this a fire job? Looks like everything (and the fire jobs I see... I mean everything!!) was sprayed with kilz.

Pete


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Yes, there was a small fire in the basement not long ago. That's what you see.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

In this area....you would have to search high and far to find a new service done in CU. Pretty much all services here are done in AL.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

It's coming along good now. The line side riser is 100% complete. The load side needs conductors. The panels in and branch circuits prepped for retermination to the enclosure. This one gets a couple switches on the side too for a post light and motion light that I installed last year. Quite cold this morning up on the extension ladder tying in my temp service too.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

It's not a matter of what_ i like_ best.........CU is a _bid killer_ compared to AL

~CS~


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Magnettica said:


> Quite cold this morning up on the extension ladder tying in my temp service too.


That's crazy, this is the temperature where exposed skin could get frost bite.

Good thing the sun is out at least.


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## BurtiElectric (Jan 11, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> It's coming along good now. The line side riser is 100% complete. The load side needs conductors. The panels in and branch circuits prepped for retermination to the enclosure. This one gets a couple switches on the side too for a post light and motion light that I installed last year. Quite cold this morning up on the extension ladder tying in my temp service too.


Any progress pics?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Just about ready to start the GES. Then feed the MB, then bug in (bare handed).


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

That temp panel board looks heavy. My extension cord that got cut so I cut the male end off and now splice it to the overhead line weighs a lot less :whistling2:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Not bad pretty good. I have to come back tomorrow to finish off the ground rods. Too cold and I'm out of daylight. If this were the summer there is no question I would stay and finish it tonight.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> That temp panel board looks heavy. My extension cord that got cut so I cut the male end off and now splice it to the overhead line weighs a lot less :whistling2:


And you could get fined for theft of services from the power company.


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Magnettica said:


> And you could get fined for theft of services from the power company.


Never happened in the history of PSE&G and JCP&L.


But if you are worried about a fine, you are just as likely to get one by using that temp power panel setup.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> And you could get fined for theft of services from the power company.



Don't argue with him Mags...

Bill has got some books and pdfs and stuff .:laughing:


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## BurtiElectric (Jan 11, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> Just about ready to start the GES. Then feed the MB, then bug in (bare handed).


Nice job, is that a BR 30 circuit panel?

The water meter was nice and close!


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> What are your opinions on installing a 100 amp service upgrade with aluminum conductors? The only copper used on the job will be for the ground rods because it has to be copper by code. Was also thinking about using a Carlon blue 4" round box for a pull chain light. What do you think?


Are you serious? I use aluminum all the time, nothing wrong with it and it's cheaper; and the Carlon boxes are UL listed for the work performed so you are good to go!:thumbsup:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Not bad pretty good. I have to come back tomorrow to finish off the ground rods. Too cold and I'm out of daylight. If this were the summer there is no question I would stay and finish it tonight.


Wow, rs covers. Id of put mud rings and plastic covers with abr setup. Ch id have done rs


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> And you could get fined for theft of services from the power company.


I can just imagine Hank Hill saying something about how power theft is a federal crime and it could ruin his reputation with the propane commission or something. That board looks like too much of a PITA to be worth it for a few cents of electricity


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Hippie said:


> I can just imagine Hank Hill saying something about how power theft is a federal crime and it could ruin his reputation with the propane commission or something. That board looks like too much of a PITA to be worth it for a few cents of electricity


Exactly. And if they were out to break balls, they would be breaking balls about using the board anyway.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

That's kinda cool how you've incorporated the meter into the temp there Mag

~CS~


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The temp service is all I've ever used since being in business. I see no other way of doing it without STEALING UTILITY ELECTRICAL POWER. There's only (2) circuits and both are GFCI protected (and they're tamper resistant).


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> That temp panel board looks heavy. My extension cord that got cut so I cut the male end off and now splice it to the overhead line weighs a lot less :whistling2:


Actually just get a set of alligator clips, works easier then bugging it in.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> Exactly. And if they were out to break balls, they would be breaking balls about using the board anyway.


And if they're breaking balls I would tell them why I have this set up and remind them that I am licensed and professional. :hammer:


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

That temp board makes me laugh every time.

It's got to be one of the most ridiculous things ever posted on this forum


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> The temp service is all I've ever used since being in business. I see no other way of doing it without STEALING UTILITY ELECTRICAL POWER. There's only (2) circuits and both are GFCI protected (and they're tamper resistant).


The kids are just going to put their fingers in that open meter socket before they try to defeat the TR receptacles


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Magnettica said:


> And if they're breaking balls I would tell them why I have this set up and remind them that I am licensed and professional. :hammer:


I licensed professional wouldn't use an unapproved temporary power panel.


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

19kilosparky984 said:


> That temp board makes me laugh every time.
> 
> It's got to be one of the most ridiculous things ever posted on this forum


At least it's not me...


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> I licensed professional wouldn't use an unapproved temporary power panel.


Yea I wonder if he got a permit for it.....


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Cletis said:


> Wow, rs covers. Id of put mud rings and plastic covers with abr setup. Ch id have done rs


Of course you would.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> The temp service is all I've ever used since being in business. I see no other way of doing it without STEALING UTILITY ELECTRICAL POWER. There's only (2) circuits and both are GFCI protected (and they're tamper resistant).


Around here the utility will hook up my cut-off extension cord to steal temp power for me.

However, if I disconnect and reconnect myself I'll get in some deep s**t.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

19kilosparky984 said:


> That temp board makes me laugh every time.
> 
> It's got to be one of the most ridiculous things ever posted on this forum


So...what's wrong with it?


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

BuzzKill said:


> So...what's wrong with it?


Seriously?????

Where do I start?

Lets see.

Your not supposed to pull a meter, so him pulling a meter is illegal.
Then he puts it in this un approved contraption...... Violation number 2

Etc etc.... I really feel having to explain the ridiculousness in this temp power board kinda silly since anyone who is on this forum should already know why .


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

BuzzKill said:


> So...what's wrong with it?


What's the point in making a solution to a "problem" when the solution is just as incorrect (and could get you in the same amount of trouble) as the original problem?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I never got the whole tapping power off the drop during a change. I have cordless tools, generators and truck inverters.


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Jlarson said:


> I never got the whole tapping power off the drop during a change. I have cordless tools, generators and truck inverters.


I don't yet have an inverter and I don't keep a generator on the truck.

It's easier and MUCH less annoying to just clip a couple leads on the drop since you are going to be right there to cut it anyway. 

Even if I had an inverter, why keep the truck running and waste my fuel?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I can run a few floro drop lights and a tool charger off my inverter most of a day before the inverter batteries need to be charged.


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Jlarson said:


> I can run a few floro drop lights and a tool charger off my inverter most of a day before the inverter batteries need to be charged.


I would worry about doing that, but I am a worrier.

Honestly, it's just as fast to clip the extension cord on the drop that you just cut as it is to plug the extension cord into the inverter.


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## Copper 0/2 (Jan 19, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> It's not a matter of what i like best.........CU is a bid killer compared to AL
> 
> ~CS~


I always give them the option for either one or the other and the price normal for AL and charge the difference with CU, but a little more cause CU is a bitch to bend. Sometimes customers go with CU. I sure love pulling CU out for scrape $$$


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> And if they're breaking balls I would tell them why I have this set up and remind them that I am licensed and professional. :hammer:


Just out of curiosity, do you write down the meter reading before and after every job or do you go in once a year and pay after you read it on Dec 31st.
I guess I am just wondering, do you pay after every job and then add it to the bill. Is there a minimum charge?


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you write down the meter reading before and after every job or do you go in once a year and pay after you read it on Dec 31st.
> I guess I am just wondering, do you pay after every job and then add it to the bill. Is there a minimum charge?


He uses the customer's meter.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

OH duh. still stupid.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I think it is a good and honest idea if the POCO approves. 

BUT

I have a generator and cordless tools.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> I don't yet have an inverter and I don't keep a generator on the truck.
> 
> It's easier and MUCH less annoying to just clip a couple leads on the drop since you are going to be right there to cut it anyway.
> 
> Even if I had an inverter, why keep the truck running and waste my fuel?


Especially if you can just steal it!!!


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Magnettica said:


> Especially if you can just steal it!!!


Is that any worse than using a temp power pole that clearly goes against the power company's specs?

Stealing :laughing:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

do you really think that any POCO has ever even mentioned stealing power much less pressed charges for an electrician using ten to thirty cents worth of power?


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> do you really think that any POCO has ever even mentioned stealing power much less pressed charges for an electrician using ten to thirty cents worth of power?


Nope.

However energizing an unapproved service ,yes.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

missing a few expansion couplings aren't you? :001_huh:


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

leland said:


> missing a few expansion couplings aren't you? :001_huh:


Never seen any expansion couplings on a service like that here. I do despise the pvc pipe straps though. :whistling2:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> do you really think that any POCO has ever even mentioned stealing power much less pressed charges for an electrician using ten to thirty cents worth of power?


In New Jersey you'll be fined and forced to pay a $500 fine. That was 1998. I worked for a contractor that it happened to. Also, around here meters are often locked so that's how serious it is around here. You should do as you please but I'm unwilling to take that chance and pay the poco five-hundred dollars.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> In New Jersey you'll be fined and forced to pay a $500 fine. That was 1998. I worked for a contractor that it happened to. Also, around here meters are often locked so that's how serious it is around here. You should do as you please but I'm unwilling to take that chance and pay the poco five-hundred dollars.


I was working in NJ in 05' for a lic EC, every service upgrade I performed had gotten a temp cord, a couple commercial places got 10/3 temping out their sub panels so they had some form of business they can do. He bought the connectors from the PoCo and I did the final tie ins. Whats the odds of the PoCo rolling up to a upgrade looking to bust the EC on the small fries?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> I was working in NJ in 05' for a lic EC, every service upgrade I performed had gotten a temp cord, a couple commercial places got 10/3 temping out their sub panels so they had some form of business they can do. He bought the connectors from the PoCo and I did the final tie ins. Whats the odds of the PoCo rolling up to a upgrade looking to bust the EC on the small fries?


And if they would there is about a .00000002% chance that they would even say anything much less fine someone.
Mag thinks we are stupid saps like his customers.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> In New Jersey you'll be fined and forced to pay a $500 fine. That was 1998. I worked for a contractor that it happened to. Also, around here meters are often locked so that's how serious it is around here. You should do as you please but I'm unwilling to take that chance and pay the poco five-hundred dollars.


The fine your going to get for using that thing is more then $500 bucks.

You get caught with that thing and they will nail your ass to the wall.

You are not allowed to pull a meter and put it in a different meter pan unless its the one they supply and its serving the same dwelling.

The only approved temporary power your allowed to use is listed in the service manual


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Every utility says that ****. Not one has ever done anything to a real, licensed contractor. Homeowner maybe. Contractor nope.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Generator?

Cordless tools?

Prep work?

It's not rocket science.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

walkerj said:


> Prep work?.


I worked with a guy that would NEVER prep anything. He always had to have a genny or a drop tap on a service change cause he would never do stuff like drive rods with the SDS or core drill, or anything else needing corded tools before the power was cut. Always did it after by the light of a work light :laughing:


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