# Recessed light drilling tip



## MDShunk

I have a little bit of trouble with the pilot bit in the hole saw mandrel when I use big hole saws to cut 5 and 6 inch recessed light holes in old work drywall. Before the holesaw has a sufficient groove cut in the drywall, the pilot bit starts to wallow out the pilot hole and it makes it hard for the saw to "track" nice. To solve this, I've started to just drill the pilot hole first with a seperate drill, and then replace the pilot bit in a dedicated mandrel with a piece of smooth 1/4" rod. It's solved the problem entirely, and I've never had better looking holes in drywall.


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## itsunclebill

You can also use an aircraft or "phone installer" type bit that has about an inch of flutes then a smooth shaft. Cut to length so the flutes clear the drywall before the cutter hits the surface. If you use jobber length bits and have a sharpener a broken bit can be re-habbed for cutter duty as well. 


Either way makes a world of difference.:thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey

I really don't use hole saws for recessed, but I have been doing this for years with my hole saws.
That is one the most frustrating things when using one.



Here's another tip, although pretty common these days:

When drilling 1/2 & 3/4 conduit hole saws (7/8" & 1 1/8"), put a big 1/4" fender washer between the saw and the material. This way when the pilot bit goes through if you can hold it back the teeth do not "grab" the material and break the pilot bit. The washer just spins. :thumbsup:


Also: 
This stuff is AMAZING to me. Use Lenox cutting oil!!! This stuff is great!
It comes in small squirt bottles and is usually right near the holes saws on the rack. :thumbsup:


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## Bkessler

For the 3/4" hole saw I have been using a actual 1" 0.d. hole saw instead of the 1 1/8th. those 3/4" connectors fit in there real tight! It's so nice. As for the recess light hole saws, I use my skinny flat head for my starter hole. and a longer than normal 1/4" bit when it time for the hole saw, and of course my half a basketball between the drill and the hole saw bit. bk


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## Johnpaul

Usually for a buck more you can get tungsten carbide pilot bits that hold up a lot better with sheetrock and especially plaster - which is basically cement. I use an adjustable hole cutter from holepro.com and it has double tungsten carbide blades that cut great through sheetrock and even button board. I used the high speed steel blades that also came in the kit to cut 18 holes in 5/8" T&G for light cans and was done in under an hour. With plaster I used to worry about cracking it when using a saber saw and going through a blade per hole. With the hole pro cutter it get through a lot more holes with the blades and no more worries about delaminating the plaster. cheers


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## 480sparky

Another tip with the carbide-grit blades: Run the drill in reverse. They cut both directions!


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## iaov

I usually cut these in with my RotoZip. I don't do a real lot of them and I learned a long time ago to be very carefull with a RotoZip. They can get away from you!


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## randomkiller

MDShunk said:


> I have a little bit of trouble with the pilot bit in the hole saw mandrel when I use big hole saws to cut 5 and 6 inch recessed light holes in old work drywall. Before the holesaw has a sufficient groove cut in the drywall, the pilot bit starts to wallow out the pilot hole and it makes it hard for the saw to "track" nice. To solve this, I've started to just drill the pilot hole first with a seperate drill, and then replace the pilot bit in a dedicated mandrel with a piece of smooth 1/4" rod. It's solved the problem entirely, and I've never had better looking holes in drywall.


I have been using that technique on sheetmetal for a long time for hole saws, it makes a huge difference.


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## KayJay

I use pilot bits on all of my hole saws that are long enough so I can just flip them over after the hole is started. The pilot retainer screw has a rounded base that holds snuggly in the flutes of the pilot bit without damaging them.
When using the Hole-Pro type cutter on the other hand, it cuts so quickly in drywall, that there is no time or need to reverse the pilot bit.


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## bobelectric

I use a drywall circle cutter to score the drywall,then use a drywall saw.Never mastererd my Rotozip enough.


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## randomkiller

bobelectric said:


> I use a drywall circle cutter to score the drywall,then use a drywall saw.Never mastererd my Rotozip enough.


 
I don't trust a rotozip in my hand upside down and dust flying. Last cans I did were in a 3/4" thick faux stone soffitt, had the installers cut the holes for us.


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## Dembones

Wow you guys have the right tools for the job! I find myself reduced to bending ceiling wires to the radius of the circle, tracing out the hole, and drywall-sawing it.


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## randomkiller

Dembones said:


> Wow you guys have the right tools for the job! I find myself reduced to bending ceiling wires to the radius of the circle, tracing out the hole, and drywall-sawing it.


 
You have heard of that new fangled circle maker thingy called a compass? It makes them perfectly round and you can even tune it in to a center mark pretty quick.


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## Dembones

randomkiller said:


> You have heard of that new fangled circle maker thingy called a compass? It makes them perfectly round and you can even tune it in to a center mark pretty quick.


Why, yes I have. I sure don't remember seeing such a thing on my tool list. You will notice from my last post that I know there are hundreds of available hole making options, but none have been made available to me on the job.


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## JPRO2

try asking for one or buy one yourself its 5 bucks


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## Celtic

Dembones said:


> Why, yes I have. I sure don't remember seeing such a thing on my tool list. You will notice from my last post that I know there are hundreds of available hole making options, but none have been made available to me on the job.


???

None made available to you?

A piece of cardboard, 2 holes and a pencil is a compass.


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## 480sparky

Celtic said:


> ???
> 
> None made available to you?
> 
> A piece of cardboard, 2 holes and a pencil is a compass.


Geez, Celtic, you get all the good tools.

I'm stuck with two nails and a scrap of 14 wire.:laughing:


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## Celtic

480sparky said:


> Geez, Celtic, you get all the good tools.
> 
> I'm stuck with two nails and a scrap of 14 wire.:laughing:



LOL
:001_tongue:

At least I didn't bust out with the rotozip, circle cutter, vacuum act for once :thumbup:


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## randomkiller

480sparky said:


> I'm stuck with two nails and a scrap of 14 wire.:laughing:


 

Whatever it takes, I'd be damned if I was gonna try and make a circle out of ceiling wire. I would make a compass from anything available.


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## kawaikfx400

*hey*

http://www.lightolier.com/products/index.jsp?CATREL_ID=24245&BLK=N&CAT_ID=25896


Thats what you guys need. MY company just got one, i think it was like 70 bucks. Catches all the dust and the blades are replactable. Pays for itself, first job, just throw it on your cordless drill.


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## B4T

I use a baffle from an old Atlite A149 fixture for a template.

Then I use a keyhole saw to cut across the diameter of the fixture.

If I hit a beam, I can easily move the can over to the side of the beam and just have a pencil make to erase instead of drywall to patch. :thumbsup:

I tried a holesaw once and cut into a bunch of alarm wires. not fun to fix


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## gilbequick

kawaikfx400 said:


> http://www.lightolier.com/products/index.jsp?CATREL_ID=24245&BLK=N&CAT_ID=25896
> 
> 
> Thats what you guys need. MY company just got one, i think it was like 70 bucks. Catches all the dust and the blades are replactable. Pays for itself, first job, just throw it on your cordless drill.



Looks nice. Is the saw like the adjustable one that Ideal and Klein sells? This one: http://idealindustries.com/products/tools_totes/saws_drill_bits/adjustable_can_light.jsp


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## Kevin J

Black4Truck said:


> I use a baffle from an old Atlite A149 fixture for a template.
> 
> Then I use a keyhole saw to cut across the diameter of the fixture.
> 
> If I hit a beam, I can easily move the can over to the side of the beam and just have a pencil make to erase instead of drywall to patch. :thumbsup:
> 
> I tried a holesaw once and cut into a bunch of alarm wires. not fun to fix



My method as well. Unless I can get in the attic and take some measurements to make sure everything is all clear, then I get out the spiral saw and the circle cutter attachment. Nothing worse than cutting out for an old work can, and finding framing in the way.


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## bobbyho

Or a plumbing vent pipe 3" above the sheetrock. I always trace the diameter and then take my tweeker screwdriver and pop a few holes around the diameter. You can never trust a studfinder especially for what is above the sheetrock.


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## KayJay

Has anyone tried the new hole saw arbor adapter for the Hole Pro cutters yet? 
Just wondering if the X-200 dust shield still fits over the hole saw when used with this arbor?

I was thinking of getting one so I could put my old Greenlee RC light hole saws to use for something other than paperweights, but if the dust shield doesn’t fit over them, I won’t bother with it, since that defeats the whole purpose of using the Hole Pro.


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## Larry Fine

I use a 6-3/8" hole saw made for cans, and an 18" to 24" extension in my 36v DeWalt drill. The extension eliminates drilling while on a ladder, as well as the walk-and-damage-the-ceiling tendency.


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## Article 90.1

Another High Hat (I can hardly stand to call them "Can Light" trick I've learned is to use colored thumb tacks for layout. You can hook your tape measure onto the the previous one in line (or if you're cool you might use your stick rule... or laser plumb bob) and if you need to move a fixture, a dab of white out usually patches the small hole. The next job I layout, I'm going to use the tacks to pin the little cardboard templates to the ceiling for final customer approval.

But back to the topic of pilot bits, my Klein philips screwdriver is close enough to 1/4" in diameter. I usually make my 1/4" holes in sheetrock with my phillips. I know, I know, and I wonder why I have to buy a new screwdriver every couple of months!


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## sherman

MDShunk said:


> I have a little bit of trouble with the pilot bit in the hole saw mandrel when I use big hole saws to cut 5 and 6 inch recessed light holes in old work drywall. Before the holesaw has a sufficient groove cut in the drywall, the pilot bit starts to wallow out the pilot hole and it makes it hard for the saw to "track" nice. To solve this, I've started to just drill the pilot hole first with a seperate drill, and then replace the pilot bit in a dedicated mandrel with a piece of smooth 1/4" rod. It's solved the problem entirely, and I've never had better looking holes in drywall.


 I use the remgrit holesaws with a racketeer dustbowl and I always get nice holes.


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## Michael Winters

I paid more than $70 for one of the Hole Pro adjustable hole cutter kits but then it cuts tongue and groove ceillings as well as sheetrock and plaster and even Hardie cement board and it has a 5-year warranty. I need a tool that will not break in the middle of a job and I know these cutters will not let us down. 

Sizes are great with one model, the X-230 that adjusts from 1-7/8 to 9 inches and works for every size ceiling can light cutout on the market, even the 8" CFL recessed light can cutouts. I can cut a hole in less time than it takes someone to trace the circle to begin cutting and I spend zero time in cleanup as everything stays in the shield. 

http://www.holepro.com/powerseries.html

With the Hole Pro I can adjust the cutting depth so it only cuts the ceiling and nothing else and I always get a perfect cut so the trim rings sit flush and I never need an oversized trim ring. Sheet rock is soft so the twin blade design keeps it balanced. We had used a single blade model from LSDI but it wobbled and made less than round holes and it was terrible on wood and did not have enough balance bars and was cheaply made. 

The adjustable hole cutters take a lot less drill power. I had to make holes nearly 9 inches in diameter in 3/4 plywood a couple weeks ago and I was able to do it using a DeWalt 18v cordless drill. In the past I found that 4-5/8 was the biggest hole saw as I could use even with the Milwaukee stud drill. The Hole Pro cutters are great for cutting in for can lights or speakers in tongue and groove ceilings using just a cordless drill and these are the only adjustable hole cutters that have both excellent high speed steel blades for wood and acrylic and tungsten carbide blades for drywall, plaster, cement board, and other tough materials. 

Hole Pro also makes a special arbor that we use with the kit shield and any hole saw. We use it when cutting tile with a tungsten grit edged hole saw as it saves time in setting up and with cleanup. We use the Hole Pro shield when we need a perfect straight in cut or need to limit the depth of the cut. 

We switched our trucks to the Blue Boar TCT hole cutters that cut up to 2-1/4" and we can make holes up to 6-1/4" diameter in 1-1/8" subflooring with our 18 volt cordless drills. The cut plug just falls out and they cut through MDF and Hardie board like a hot knife through butter. 

We cut 14" inspection holes with the Hole Pro X-425 model on one large project where access was difficult and then cut out the plugs from another sheet of sheetrock and had patches that meet fire code. After that we learned to make the plugs ahead of time when we make holes to pull wire and when we leave the job it is ready for the painter which makes our customers very happy.

We get called on now to install the room speakers for whole house music systems and the X-230 works great for that as well. Every speaker needs a different size mounting hole. The hole cutter is great for blind wire runs with new construction as we don't nick wires accidentally when we can limit the cut depth. And of course not eating gypsum dust and having it down our armpits is a big plus as well.


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## senecainc

any one try the fein saw on plaster


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## a-bulb

randomkiller said:


> You have heard of that new fangled circle maker thingy called a compass? It makes them perfectly round and you can even tune it in to a center mark pretty quick.


I use a piece of card board, make a hole in it with my awl, take a measurement of the can and cut it in half and make another hole. put the awl on the center mark and pencil in the other hole. Home made compass!!:thumbup: works great.


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## jbrookers

We use something similar to the hole pro. Works like a charm.


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## Mike Guile

*Cutting*

Doesn't anyone poke a little hole first and stick a coat hanger up there and see if it's clear anymore?? I've heard alot of horror stories of guys just sticking power tools and walls and wacking things.

Old School


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## 480sparky

Mike Guile said:


> Doesn't anyone poke a little hole first and stick a coat hanger up there and see if it's clear anymore?? I've heard alot of horror stories of guys just sticking power tools and walls and wacking things.
> 
> Old School


 
I use my Phillips spinner.


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## George Stolz

My straight twirly does a better job of cutting through drywall than the Phillips. 

Tastes great! Less filling!


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## 480sparky

George Stolz said:


> My straight twirly does a better job of cutting through drywall than the Phillips.
> 
> Tastes great! Less filling!


Wanna drag? :laughing:


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## Shockdoc

MDShunk said:


> I have a little bit of trouble with the pilot bit in the hole saw mandrel when I use big hole saws to cut 5 and 6 inch recessed light holes in old work drywall. Before the holesaw has a sufficient groove cut in the drywall, the pilot bit starts to wallow out the pilot hole and it makes it hard for the saw to "track" nice. To solve this, I've started to just drill the pilot hole first with a seperate drill, and then replace the pilot bit in a dedicated mandrel with a piece of smooth 1/4" rod. It's solved the problem entirely, and I've never had better looking holes in drywall.


Have you ever tried a rotozip with the radious attachment. That must be an expensive holesaw, I tried one of those adjustable hihat holesaws( as sold at HD) , didn't care for it so we killed it on a metal lathe plaster hi hat job.


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## Johnpaul

Hole Pro now has a arbor adapter so you can use any of their shields with any hole saw. When I am dealing with plaster over chicken wire and using one of the grit hole saws I can still use the shield and catch all the crap coming down from the ceiling - and with mice it is sometimes literally crap. They also have a vacuum attachment to meet the new EPA lead paint regs - not really needed with the Hole Pro shields but it meets the legal requirements to avoid a fine.


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