# The last straw for HD and me



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi3c1y_leaked-home-depot-anti-union-video_webcam
> 
> I find it funny that the "merit" guys accuse the unions of brainwashing while right here is a great example of brainwashing through misinformation....anyone else find the whole unions are a bunch of brainwashing thugs BS a bit hypocritical


Are you assuming one side can not act as dumb as the other? No one side holds higher ground. There are good and bad on both sides.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> Are you assuming one side can not act as dumb as the other? No one side holds higher ground. There are good and bad on both sides.


:laughing: I just love the hypocrisy of the situation, but lately HD has managed to get itself in the news lately with poor labor practices so what little business I gave them before will stop.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

So you'll shoot yourself in the foot to prove a point.. I go where I get the prices and service I like. End of story.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> So you'll shoot yourself in the foot to prove a point.. I go where I get the prices and service I like. End of story.


How would I shoot myself in the foot? Honestly if I barely went twice a year before could it honestly be considered shooting myself in the foot by shopping at a place that shows interest in the customer and employee alike.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Rust said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi3c1y_leaked-home-depot-anti-union-video_webcam
> 
> I find it funny that the "merit" guys accuse the unions of brainwashing while right here is a great example of brainwashing through misinformation....anyone else find the whole unions are a bunch of brainwashing thugs BS a bit hypocritical


If I understand you correctly you are saying the unions words are informative and HDs words are brainwashing.

That seems pretty hypocritical of you.

Just like the union has a right to present their view of things HD has a right to present their view.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Rust said:


> How would I shoot myself in the foot? Honestly if I barely went twice a year before could it honestly be considered shooting myself in the foot by shopping at a place that shows interest in the customer and employee alike.


Really, I could care less where you shop..


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

So the unions can solicit members by trying to organize companies, but if a company tries to give their opinion they are wrong?


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> If I understand you correctly you are saying the unions words are informative and HDs words are brainwashing.
> 
> That seems pretty hypocritical of you.
> 
> Just like the union has a right to present their view of things HD has a right to present their view.


No thats not what I said at all, but I appreciate your ability to make assumptions, what I am getting at is this BS the non union companies spew about how unions attempt to brainwash while they claim to allow their employees to choose freely on issues but at the same time make them watch this.

I was simply addressing hypocrisy, did not claim the union doesnt try but when the non union guys tout how they make all their own decisions without influence I find it hard to fathom when I see stuff like this. I will not shop there anymore due to poor service in recent times, and numerous complaints in the news lately about their walmart tactics toward employees


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> Really, I could care less where you shop..


So would you like to answer the question of how exactly I am shooting myself in the foot or would you prefer to continue to dance around the subject :whistling2:


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

tkb said:


> So the unions can solicit members by trying to organize companies, but if a company tries to give their opinion they are wrong?


NO but many of these companies claim their employees dislike unions ON THEIR OWN without influence, and yet here is a prime example of them attempting to influence employees with lies, simply an observation


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Rust said:


> No thats not what I said at all, but I appreciate your ability to make assumptions,


No ...... I pretty much nailed it, you are just to bias to admit it.




> what I am getting at is this BS the non union companies spew about how unions attempt to brainwash while they claim to allow their employees to choose freely on issues but at the same time make them watch this.


They paid their employees to watch a video, that is not removing the employees choice





> I will not shop there anymore due to poor service in recent times,



I am sure HD is worried about that.:laughing:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Rust said:


> So would you like to answer the question of how exactly I am shooting myself in the foot or would you prefer to continue to dance around the subject :whistling2:


I'll answer for you. Sometimes you need material and Home Depot is the only place with 15 miles. So do you go there and get what you need or drive and extra 30 miles. 

I get inexpensive pieces of scrap wood from Home Depot. Nobody else sells me stuff like that. They'll even knock the price down if I don't the it's worth what they want. 

Wire.. If you don't have a Lowes often Home Depot will be MUCH cheaper on wire. If you bid a job that's money your pocket. 

What if you need material on the weekend?

I got **** to do, there you go.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> No ...... I pretty much nailed it, you are just to bias to admit it.
> 
> 
> Yes of course?
> ...


Did I anywhere claim they would be worried about that.....the answer is NO, simply a choice I make


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Home Depot pisses me off sometimes but.. overall they're alright.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> I'll answer for you. Sometimes you need material and Home Depot is the only place with 15 miles. So do you go there and get what you need or drive and extra 30 miles.
> 
> I get inexpensive pieces of scrap wood from Home Depot. Nobody else sells me stuff like that. They'll even knock the price down if I don't the it's worth what they want.
> 
> ...


Everywhere around here has a nice little ace hardware, menards, lowes, hoods, bucheits, a lumber yard or some mom and pop shop that will give me quality service and match prices, so once again how am I shooting myself in the foot if I only went there maybe twice a year before to pick up a hammer or kleins real quick......its simple I wouldnt


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> Home Depot pisses me off sometimes but.. overall they're alright.


The skeleton crew they run in the "slow" months leaves them understaffed with kids who dont know jack and over the years they have lost my interest


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> Everywhere around here has a nice little ace hardware, menards, lowes, hoods, bucheits, a lumber yard or some mom and pop shop that will give me quality service and match prices, so once again how am I shooting myself in the foot if I only went there maybe twice a year before to pick up a hammer or kleins real quick......its simple I wouldnt


And they most likely feel the same way as HD.

There is no logical reason for any company to go union. I have asked this question time and again and NO ON CAN ANSWER IT.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Won't stop me from shopping at HD.:thumbup:


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Rust said:


> No thats not what I said at all, but I appreciate your ability to make assumptions, what I am getting at is this BS the non union companies spew about how unions attempt to brainwash while they claim to allow their employees to choose freely on issues but at the same time make them watch this.
> 
> I was simply addressing hypocrisy, did not claim the union doesnt try but when the non union guys tout how they make all their own decisions without influence I find it hard to fathom when I see stuff like this. I will not shop there anymore due to poor service in recent times, and numerous complaints in the news lately about their walmart tactics toward employees


I watched the video and didn't hear anything about brainwashing.

You are spewing typical union rhetoric against anyone that may not be interested in going union.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> And they most likely feel the same way as HD.
> 
> There is no logical reason for any company to go union. I have asked this question time and again and NO ON CAN ANSWER IT.


A choice that should be left to the employees

but none the less the thread is simply an observation of a company using falsehoods and lies to attempt to influence employees not to unionize because that might cost one of the higher ups their bonus

This is simply visual proof of a company doing exactly what they accuse unions of doing nothing more. 

Now my personal choice not to shop there is a mix of things


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

tkb said:


> I watched the video and didn't hear anything about brainwashing.
> 
> You are spewing typical union rhetoric against anyone that may not be interested in going union.


Yep exactly what I am doing :no:


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## RyanB (Jul 14, 2009)

brian john said:


> There is no logical reason for any company to go union. I have asked this question time and again and NO ON CAN ANSWER IT.


There are lots of voluntary signatory companies that join for access to union electricians. 



> Dan Mott, President, Mott Electric Ltd., states: "As a signatory company, we have access to a well-trained pool of skilled workers who are ready, able, and willing to work. Mott Electric has had a 75-year relationship with IBEW 213. Like all relationships, it has been tested; but it has evolved into a true partnership based on cooperation. Despite changes in the market over time, we have been able to substantially grow our volumes. This is the true testimony to the success of working together."





> *Ron Fettback, General Superintendent, Western Pacific Enterprises Ltd., says: *_"We've been a signatory company since 1973. One of the main advantages is having a good quality workforce available on a moment's notice. I can chase large projects or downsize depending on the market. The apprenticeship program allows for flexibility, and the electricians are the best the system has to offer. The union continues to look for ways to help us become competitive and offers new approaches to solving problems in the market. IBEW 213 is very fair to deal with, and we've always been able to resolve any differences."_





> *Joe Haug of Four Star Electric says:*_"The advantages of being a union company are very simple - when you need people, you get them! The IBEW offers a great apprenticeship program and my electricians get paid what they are worth. I've been with the IBEW for 25 years and I wouldn't do business any other way. The relationship is excellent."_


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

tkb said:


> I watched the video and didn't hear anything about brainwashing.
> 
> You are spewing typical union rhetoric against anyone that may not be interested in going union.


So if this doesnt count as an attempt to influence or brainwash then the unions are not attempting to influence or brainwash either, they are both using the same tactics but more often than not we tend to forget that the nonunion companies do the same thing to unions as unions do to them, neither is right it is simply an observation.

Also if you dont like union rhetoric why bother making a comment in union topics? does not make much sense does it?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RyanB said:


> There are lots of voluntary signatory companies that join for access to union electricians.


That does not answer my question.

What benefit to the employer?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> .
> 
> Also if you dont like union rhetoric why bother making a comment in union topics? does not make much sense does it?



Why does his membership in any organization matter where he post in an open forum.

As for you not shopping at HD, that is a judgement call and if you stick to your guns than, I say good!


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> That does not answer my question.
> 
> What benefit to the employer?


Happy employees with high morale=good productivity(generally) sorry but that seems a benefit, also a pool of qualified employees seems useful, as well protection for your employees through health and benefits.

This isnt the issue though the issue is this is an example of a non union company using the same age old useless tactics that the union they claim to hate so much uses. This video is just one of the many things that keep me from going to HD along with pissy employees who have zero knowledge or use in life that reek of pot and booze at 7 a.m., their new approach to taking advantage of the economy by hiring temp employees for mediocre pay and hours for 120 days just to avoid giving benefits and living wages to people an costing tax payers more when these employees need health benefits or something of that nature. HD just feels to much like walmart for my business now


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> Why does his membership in any organization matter where he post in an open forum.
> 
> As for you not shopping at HD, that is a judgement call and if you stick to your guns than, I say good!


My apologies to TKB I forget sometimes that for some people their only means of getting off is to troll forums accusing people of spewing "typical union rhetoric" so sorry tkb


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I like HD and I will continue to shop at HD.:thumbsup:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> That does not answer my question.
> 
> What benefit to the employer?


 Access to a skilled workforce when needed.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Access to a skilled workforce when needed.


 The big problem, there (well, I consider it a big problem, anyway) is that you can't pick the workforce. Oh, I'm sure if you're getting a certain number of guys then you might be able to pick a certain percentage of them, but the majority is whoever was next on the list. If you got a good crew last time you can't ask for them back. You might get a godawful crew, though on average it would be... average.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Mr Rewire said:


> Access to a skilled workforce when needed.


LMAO.. Whatever..


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Access to a skilled workforce when needed.


BIG misconception. The union isn't the only show in town.:no:


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## RyanB (Jul 14, 2009)

brian john said:


> That does not answer my question.
> 
> What benefit to the employer?


It answers your question directly and simply.

The three employers I quoted clearly state the benefits.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> Happy employees with high morale=good productivity(generally) sorry but that seems a benefit, also a pool of qualified employees seems useful, as well protection for your employees through health and benefits.


I have worked for and do work with small and large open shops and their men are no more dissatisfied than union men. As a matter of fact I hea more bitching from the union men.

So one down.

The open shops seem to have full employment.

Another one down.

Can't speak for qualifications but I see as much poor union work as I see open shop, the union has no lock on quality.

So 3 up 3 down any reasons of substance?



> as well protection for your employees through health and benefits.


That is why I run a union shop, but that is hardly a benefit for the employer. My open shop friends that run approximately the same size shop I do, live in bigger houses and have more toys than I do. I give my money to the union, they give their money to themselves.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Access to a skilled workforce when needed.


Oh please.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RyanB said:


> It answers your question directly and simply.
> 
> The three employers I quoted clearly state the benefits.


Did not answer my question.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

brian john said:


> Oh please.


I worked Union some and honestly I just got looked down on because I didn't goto school. 

Sitting on break working on a high rise. Talking code, the answer from the f'ing union poges was.. you learned in school. They don't know squat.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> I worked Union some and honestly I just got looked down on because I didn't goto school.
> 
> Sitting on break working on a high rise. Talking code, the answer from the f'ing union poges was.. you learned in school. They don't know squat.


 
Agree. They don't accept you when you were organized and they don't accept you when you go out on your own. They (the union) will not admit that they have a BIG problem with declining membership. They screwed themselves. They should look in the mirror.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Access to a skilled workforce when needed.


You are a small shop, did you take men from the bench? Or did you hire the guys you knew would do decent work.


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## RyanB (Jul 14, 2009)

brian john said:


> There is no logical reason for any company to go union. I have asked this question time and again and NO ON CAN ANSWER IT.


Brian, you have said that you run a union shop. Why?

You live in a right-to-work state and nobody can be forced to join a union as a condition of employment.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont think its reasonabale to assume that every employer should provide above and beyond benifits for all entry level positions....


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rust said:


> No thats not what I said at all, but I appreciate your ability to make assumptions, what I am getting at is this BS the non union companies spew about how unions attempt to brainwash while they claim to allow their employees to choose freely on issues but at the same time make them watch this.
> 
> I was simply addressing hypocrisy, did not claim the union doesnt try but when the non union guys tout how they make all their own decisions without influence I find it hard to fathom when I see stuff like this. I will not shop there anymore due to poor service in recent times, and numerous complaints in the news lately about their walmart tactics toward employees


Just think of how poor the sevice would be if the employees were union,,

Waiting in line for an hour and when you get to the cash out they go to lunch next register please..:laughing:


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Half of this rediculous babble some of you are spewing including the great brian john is irrellevant to what the thread is originally about, it was simply an observation of hypocrisy that is all, this is not meant to be the same tiring beat the horse over the head unions better no my open shop is better BS nobody cares shut the hell up and simply acknowledge what I did and that both sides waste time badgering the others F***


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rust said:


> Half of this rediculous babble some of you are spewing including the great brian john are irrellevant to what the thread is originally about, it was simply an observation of hypocrisy that is all, this is not meant to be the same tiring beat the horse of the head unions better no my open shop is better BS nobody cares shut the hell up and simply acknowledge what I did and that both sides waste time badgering the others F***


At least in a open shop you don't have some one stealing money out of your pay check to pay the union big wheels..


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> I have worked for and do work with small and large open shops and their men are no more dissatisfied than union men. As a matter of fact I hea more bitching from the union men.
> 
> So one down.
> 
> ...


Its a benefit for you as a taxpayer, people with a lack of the appropriate benefits will feed off the government when they need them, employers need to man up and quit attempting to shaft their employees union or not, but hey once again this is irrelevent to the OP


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> At least in a open shop you don't have some one stealing money out of your pay check to pay the union big wheels..


........oh look harry made another point that is completely 1. inaccurate, but 2. not relevent to the idea of the OP :whistling2:


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Rust said:


> Its a benefit for you as a taxpayer, people with a lack of the appropriate benefits will feed off the government when they need them, employers need to man up and quit attempting to shaft their employees union or not, but hey once again this is irrelevent to the OP


Who pays the unemployment when your sitting on the bench?


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

K2500 said:


> Who pays the unemployment when your sitting on the bench?


When I work I pay into that same system whats your point??????????? if you have one


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

I see nothing wrong with the video, they stated THEIR opinion and said they don't look down at unions. In their OPINION unions aren't what are best for everyone and supposedly the employees agree. I don't see any brainwashing. It's an internal company video and they're all pretty much standard.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Edrick said:


> I see nothing wrong with the video, they stated THEIR opinion and said they don't look down at unions. In their OPINION unions aren't what are best for everyone and supposedly the employees agree. I don't see any brainwashing. It's an internal company video and they're all pretty much standard.


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Rust said:


> How would I shoot myself in the foot? Honestly if I barely went twice a year before could it honestly be considered shooting myself in the foot by shopping at a place that shows interest in the customer and employee alike.


Seems kind of pointless to start a thread about a vendor you don't really use in the first place.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I want to join the union these girls belong to, not one full of stinky men.....


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I wanted to listen to the first part of the video but the guy didn't speak English very well.
It was kinda of a Georgia mush mouth accent. He just couldn't get the word "associate" out for some reason. 
Ah so sit


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RyanB said:


> Brian, you have said that you run a union shop. Why?
> 
> You live in a right-to-work state and nobody can be forced to join a union as a condition of employment.


 
I liked the benefits and I FEEL, the men deserve decent benefits. That does not benefit my business only my personal feelings.

And when I started by business 3 of my biggest customers were union and required all contractors to be union. They no longer care, one went open shop, the other hires who they want and the third never questions.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> Its a benefit for you as a taxpayer, people with a lack of the appropriate benefits will feed off the government when they need them, employers need to man up and quit attempting to shaft their employees union or not, but hey once again this is irrelevent to the OP


 
Only men with no integrity, IS THAT YOU?

You drink WAYYYYYYYYYYYY to much Kool-Aid.

The only benefit of HD going union is higher cost to the customers. Oh wait that is not a benefit.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> ........oh look harry made another point that is completely 1. inaccurate, but 2. not relevant to the idea of the OP :whistling2:


Some people see it that way, I see it as the cost of membership, all associations have some sort of dues. The dues are not that high.

I do know the bad taste some have regarding unions has to do with reports of SOME union bosses stealing dues and retirements. I realize this goes way back but bad feelings linger. My Dad and uncles still hate unions based on what the union dd to my grandfathers pension in the 50's.

Good news fades fast, bad press sticks with you for a long time. The unions get more bad press that good press and have a up hill battle in regards to public relations.

What does being relevant to any topic mean in the Union Section?


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> Only men with no integrity, IS THAT YOU?
> 
> You drink WAYYYYYYYYYYYY to much Kool-Aid.
> 
> The only benefit of HD going union is higher cost to the customers. Oh wait that is not a benefit.


Show examples of when unions have drove the cost up of anything.......common misconception


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Edrick said:


> I see nothing wrong with the video, they stated THEIR opinion and said they don't look down at unions. In their OPINION unions aren't what are best for everyone and supposedly the employees agree. I don't see any brainwashing. It's an internal company video and they're all pretty much standard.


Yes but this is the same stuff the union puts on us no different and yet when they do it its a brainwashing technique. Also the employees of these companies should have a right to unionize without fear of being fired for it plain and simple.

Its the same useless BS on both sides, try to influence and rally your troops into believing the other is rediculous, unfortunately corporate friendly politicians and businessmen that would rather operate freely and screw their employees were quick to put the current economy blame on the backs of the union when it was those very corporate elitists on wall street and big businesses like wal mart who broke the economy in the first place. Plain and simple unions were the scape goat non worker friendly laws, taxes, and other factors that the higher ups allowed and people fell into believing the BS, dont get me wrong there are a few curropt locals but the idea that unions cause prices to skyrocket and companies to close it BS


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Rust said:


> Show examples of when unions have drove the cost up of anything.......common misconception


 
Brother Noah took spelling an grammer classes and changed his name to Rust:laughing:.

This thread makes me want to run out and go spend alot of money at Home Depot...

See ya in a few hours with a bunch of tools I don't need... :thumbup:


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> I liked the benefits and I FEEL, the men deserve decent benefits. That does not benefit my business only my personal feelings.
> 
> And when I started by business 3 of my biggest customers were union and required all contractors to be union. They no longer care, one went open shop, the other hires who they want and the third never questions.


If your a man of so much integrity yet such a disagreement for unions Brian John, why not run an open shop and give your men the pay and benefits you think they deserve.

Your argument is what motivates a company to go union, imagine yourself non union and think about it yourself. There are plenty of reasons


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Brother Noah took spelling an grammer classes and changed his name to Rust:laughing:.
> 
> This thread makes me want to run out and go spend alot of money at Home Depot...
> 
> See ya in a few hours with a bunch of tools I don't need... :thumbup:


Oh hey its my friendly neighborhood troll :laughing:

Who I might add know nothing about anything and quickly reverts to personal attacks and insults because he is not intelligent enough to debate himself poor little fella


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

"Home Depot is not anti-union, but *pro-associate!*"

Haha, it's been proven that being anti-anything is typically bad for business.

That's why you hear "pro-life" as opposed to "anti-abortion".

I always get a kick out of the play on words.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Frasbee said:


> "Home Depot is not anti-union, but *pro-associate!*"
> 
> Haha, it's been proven that being anti-anything is typically bad for business.
> 
> ...


What really interests me is they failed to pick a side anywhere, if your anti union you better be anti gay as well but they effectively disgruntled people of the two major parties with their indecisiveness.

Pro-life=anti abortion, pro war, pro death panel, pro death penalty, anti planned parenthood.........wait whats pro life again :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> Show examples of when unions have drove the cost up of anything.......common misconception


 
My men are getting a 1.65 raise in the middle of a recession (June 1), either the rates go up or my income falls. Simple math.

Union labor cost more, the union advertises this as a benefit to the men (AND IT IS). But this drives up cost. Owners normally do not to like to eat added cost.

I cannot post a link to the article (Washington Post maybe 10-12 years ago), but the State of Virginia got into a dispute with the State of Maryland over whether the Woodrow Wilson bridge would be union or lowest bidder. No matter if the bidders were union or open shop. Seems the bids came in and the cost of being 100% union was going to drive the cost up. Virginia agreed to the 100% union IF Maryland would pick the tab up for the added cost. Maryland declined.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> My men are getting a 1.65 raise in the middle of a recession (June 1), either the rates go up or my income falls. Simple math.
> 
> Union labor cost more, the union advertises this as a benefit to the men (AND IT IS). But this drives up cost. Owners normally do not to like to eat added cost.
> 
> I cannot post a link to the article (Washington Post maybe 10-12 years ago), but the State of Virginia got into a dispute with the State of Maryland over whether the Woodrow Wilson bridge would be union or lowest bidder. No matter if the bidders were union or open shop. Seems the bids came in and the cost of being 100% union was going to drive the cost up. Virginia agreed to the 100% union IF Maryland would pick the tab up for the added cost. Maryland declined.


We are not disgussing construction trades though, in construction expect and be willing to pay the more qualified and trained person. 

Lets look at the UAW for example the blame of the big three tanking was placed on them rather than unfair trade agreements and poor engineering and design making them compete against vehicles that sipped gas.

Every big three car you bought only 8% of that cost was union labor the rest was engineers, execs, materials, tool maintanence, manufacturing, and dealer mark up. But when they failed to compete with toyota a car company that so far this year has recalled 2.2 million for poor quality and craftsmanship but sipped gas because it was cheaper the finger pointed at the UAW. My local schnuks, shop n save, and deirbergs all offer lower priced goods than walmart and they are union.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

^ also 5.6% of that price is government regulations that are necessary for safe vehicles


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> ^ also 5.6% of that price is government regulations that are necessary for safe vehicles


 
I bet that is low.

Look the biggest obstacle the unions face is themselves.

They need a strong marketing campaign, not a bunch of BS but real facts on how they HELP America, in lieu of being the blame for all our faults.

They need to quit giving 97% of their political backing to the Dems. The Dems have no reason to work hard for the unions they have the Unions in their pocket hell or high water.

Look at Washington DC 99% behind the Dems. Yet in the budget battle who got thrown under the bus? Wash DC, why? Because the Dems know DC residents are pretty much stupid and will back Adolph Hitler if he was a Dem candidate.

The unions got slapped in Wisconsin, what dids thery do they trashed the State House. Real good press.

Plan Parent Hood, got slapped in the budget battle, what did they do. Started a TV, Radio and Newspaper campaign about how the new budget would kill women. (Not as many as Plan Parent Hood kills in their clinics I bet).


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> I bet that is low.
> 
> Look the biggest obstacle the unions face is themselves.
> 
> ...


You bet what is low?

I agree they need to involve themselves less politically, and promote what their mission is and regain the respect of the less than intelligent idiots that blame them for everything. Needless to say the problem is conservatives dont like unions because unions help keep corporate entities in check thats all and for the last 40 repubs have been attacking unions with falsehoods and BS.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

...............


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

rust said:


> in construction expect and be willing to pay the more qualified and trained person.


prove it.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> I went and got my contractors license and started my own business which is has been very sucessfull.


Is what I thanked.
I don't care if your union, right wing, bed wetter, whatever, everyone should just go to work, do your best and be kind.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> I
> Your argument is what motivates a company to go union, imagine yourself non union and think about it yourself. There are plenty of reasons


But still no benefit to me monetarily.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> You bet what is low?


the cost to manufactures for government mandates on vehicles.



> I agree they need to involve themselves less politically, and promote what their mission is and regain the respect of the less than intelligent idiots that blame them for everything. Needless to say the problem is conservatives dont like unions because unions help keep corporate entities in check thats all and for the last 40 repubs have been attacking unions with falsehoods and BS.


Conservatives do not like unions because union dollars go to the dems AND THAT'S THE TRUTH.

Nothing convinces a politician that some thing they do not believe in is right for America like a few bucks in the old campaign fund.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> the cost to manufactures for government mandates on vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Double thanks.. :thumbup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Third row up, on the far right end. Would you? I would.......


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> That is why I run a union shop, but that is hardly a benefit for the employer. My open shop friends that run approximately the same size shop I do, live in bigger houses and have more toys than I do. I give my money to the union, they give their money to themselves.


So Brian, what happened in your life that made you so altruistic?

(No, I'm not being sarcastic!, IMO Brian's stated attitude is noble.)


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> Third row up, on the far right end. Would you? I would.......






macmikeman said:


> I want to join the union these girls belong to, not one full of stinky men.....


 
Hey those are my Wives :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> So Brian, what happened in your life that made you so altruistic?
> 
> (No, I'm not being sarcastic!, IMO Brian's stated attitude is noble.)


I worked for a few butt heads and a few really good EC's. I was impressed with the good EC's.

Plus When I was a helper the SOME mechanics treated the helpers like crap, I promised myself then I would always try to treat others like I want to be treated. (EXCEPT IN A FORUM:laughing


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> (EXCEPT IN A FORUM:laughing


:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I've never been in a union, and I supervised and worked with 2 union electricians (that worked in an open shop). They were both pretty good electricians. One had a fantastic attitude and was one of the hardest workers I've ever met. The other one worked OK, but man he could complain. It really got old.

The problem I always perceived with unions was that the best workers got paid the same as the lazy workers. Never understood that. 

Then that game of hiring the next guy on the bench, then send him back, get the next guy, send him back, repeat until you get the guy you want. What the heck is up with that? It seems to me if contractors could pick the employees they wanted the slackers would have motivation to improve (so they would get picked for work).

Now, I also perceive that businesses (not all, but a lot of them) will pretty much work people at slave wages if they are allowed. Unions really helped the general overall population with that problem (at least that's what I understand the history books to say).

In general, I wish this country could do a better job paying it's people. I won't say anymore on this, because it get's to be too long of a discussion.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Oh yea!
> 
> Unlike you who got laid off and just camps out on the internet all day posting brainwashed pro union BULLSH!T,when I was laid off I went and got my contractors license and started my own business which is has been very sucessfull.
> 
> Quit whinning you sorry A$$ sack of dogsh!t. The union sucks and no matter how much posting you do about it your not going to change anyone's mind.


Wow, someones wife or sister isnt putting out, why dont you stfu with your personal attacks, once again you post nothing constructive you trolling A$$hat read the thread many times I question both sides tactics. Go get laid or beat off to gay **** on redtube you tool.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> But still no benefit to me monetarily.


then dont be a union contractor, if you are so great of a boss to pay your men decent wages and benefits if you were not union leave it. If this is your dumbfounded train of thought why bother losing money.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust said:


> then dont be a union contractor, if you are so great of a boss to pay your men decent wages and benefits if you were not union leave it. If this is your dumbfounded train of thought why bother losing money.


 
You just do not seem to get it. For the union to survive it needs new and more contractors. I know you like to think the IBEW is man driven. But we/you need contractors. 

For business owners that are open shop to come in the locals in their area you have to be able to offer them something. You have yet to post one thing positive to sway open shops into the fold.

As for me I am not going anywhere for the time being. I am 58 and hope to retire in 14-16 years. PLus I think I operate in an area friendly to members business owners in most things. Taking a raise now seems foolish, but that is another topic.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> I am 58 and hope to retire in 14-16 years.


Why so long from now? From other posts I've seen from you, you are financially better off than I, and I'm looking to retire in about 5 years (I'm 58 too, 59 in December). I will admit that I might have a service van to do 1 or 2 calls a week, you know, change out a fixture or switch/receptacle, something light and easy.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Rust said:


> Wow, someones wife or sister isnt putting out, why dont you stfu with your personal attacks, once again you post nothing constructive you trolling A$$hat read the thread many times I question both sides tactics. Go get laid or beat off to gay **** on redtube you tool.


 
It is really funny you keep calling me a troll.

Do you realize that a troll is someone who starts threads just to stir the pot?

Every single post/tread you started or made is pro union crap that just starts aguments.

That is a troll.

You have NEVER POSTED A SINGLE ELECTRICAL RELATED POST

This entire "once again you post nothing constructive" and "I question both sides" BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Lots of guy myself included HAVE posted constructive things on all your stupid pro union rants and you dissmiss and ignore all them just to continue with you BS. 

As marc pointed out you don't even shop at HD.

All your posts are right in line word for word with the pro union troll manual you got issued when you got laid off. Seems like every week we get a new union troll who just posts the same crap over and over again word for word.... Look kids.. Big Ben .. Parliment!!!!

No matter how much pro union crap you post YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYONES MIND

FWIW my posts involving this have just been in resonse to others I have never once started a thread just to create hostility like the OP


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

This thread is dildos.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Why so long from now? From other posts I've seen from you, you are financially better off than I, and I'm looking to retire in about 5 years (I'm 58 too, 59 in December). I will admit that I might have a service van to do 1 or 2 calls a week, you know, change out a fixture or switch/receptacle, something light and easy.


 
You youngster I will be 59 in September. As long as I enjoy my job and am healthy I plan to work. I see no reason to retire.

I plan to travel some in between.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> You just do not seem to get it. For the union to survive it needs new and more contractors. I know you like to think the IBEW is man driven. But we/you need contractors.
> 
> For business owners that are open shop to come in the locals in their area you have to be able to offer them something. You have yet to post one thing positive to sway open shops into the fold.
> 
> As for me I am not going anywhere for the time being. I am 58 and hope to retire in 14-16 years. PLus I think I operate in an area friendly to members business owners in most things. Taking a raise now seems foolish, but that is another topic.


So which side of the fence do you stand on or are you similar to me in feeling the union is very important but things do need to change for the outside view and bad press to disappear.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> It is really funny you keep calling me a troll.
> 
> Do you realize that a troll is someone who starts threads just to stir the pot?
> 
> ...


This is not a union vs. non arguement, its not meant to stir the pot and if you dont like it and you dont have an intelligent comment dont waste your time simple as that. Quit getting your panties in a bunch over something that clearly doesnt interest you and you have no knowledge of.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Rust said:


> This is not a union vs. non arguement, its not meant to stir the pot and if you dont like it and you dont have an intelligent comment dont waste your time simple as that. Quit getting your panties in a bunch over something that clearly doesnt interest you and you have no knowledge of.


He is right, you are a worthless troll.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> He is right, you are a worthless troll.


No more worthless than you or him for that matter :thumbsup:


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Rust said:


> When I work I pay into that same system whats your point??????????? if you have one


What's your tax liability ****nut? What's your average time on the bench? 

Unless your making mucho big bucks the taxes you pay are probably close to nothing compared with you and your brothers time holding down the bench.

That's my point.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> He is right, you are a worthless troll.


I concur.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Rust said:


> No more worthless than you or him for that matter :thumbsup:


Don't sell yourself so short ......... you are much more worthless.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

K2500 said:


> What's your tax liability ****nut? What's your average time on the bench?
> 
> Unless your making mucho big bucks the taxes you pay are probably close to nothing compared with you and your brothers time holding down the bench.
> 
> That's my point.


First off your from texas so I wont take anything you say to seriously :thumbsup:

This is my 3rd year as a J and I have been out since may doing side work, before that worked steady through my apprenticeship and first couple years of J. Worked 3 years before that at a lowes from senior year of high school til I was 20 so I have already put 10+ years into the tax system, I stopped getting unemployment so thats not a cost to you and my wifes and RN that does decent and I have the option to sit on my ass but thats not me, mowing grass, shoveling and plowing snow, and getting side jobs from the friends I have made in other trades, but what does this have to do with anything. 

LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY I DO NOT SUPPORT THE UNIONS OLD SCHOOL WAYS OF STILL ATTACKING THE OPEN SHOPS AND FUNDING PARTIES, LET THE PARTIES FEND FOR THEMSELVES IN MY OPINION, BUT I SIMPLY POINTED THIS VIDEO OUT AS AN OBSERVATION AND AGGRAVATION OF THE HYPOCRISY NOT ONLY ON THE UNION SIDE BUT THE NON, BOTH NEED EACH OTHER END OF STORY. THIS IS NOT A PRO UNION EVERYTHING NOT UNION SUCKS THREAD, I WAS SIMPLY SHOWING BOTH SIDES ARE ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF DAMN KIDS AT LUNCH SPREADING BS ABOUT THE OTHER AND IT HURTS BOTH SIDES IN THE END.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Don't sell yourself so short ......... you are much more worthless.


whatever you have to say to help ya sleep at night


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Just got home from shopping at the Home Depot. Saw all the antiunion associates.:laughing::laughing:


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Just got home from shopping at the Home Depot. Saw all the antiunion associates.:laughing::laughing:


:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping: Yep because thats what the thread is about, this has nothing to do with the employees, its stupid how unions and companies keep attacking each other. Another think I am tired of hearing about is rats this old way of thinking is BS, but since neither side is willing to grow up as you and a couple other merit boys have showed me it appears things will never change. Whats needed is more contractors like brian john who are more concerned with their employees whether they are union or non, if that was the case there wouldnt need to be a union for you guys to piss and moan about.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Oops I forgot to buy some Blue Carlon boxes. Back to Home Depot I go.:laughing:


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Oops I forgot to buy some Blue Carlon boxes. Back to Home Depot I go.:laughing:


Im sorry your weak little mind has led you to believe that this is suppose to offend or bother me, the thread is called "The last straw for HD and ME" not dont shop at home depot. None the less it entertains you in some simple minded way so do what you do.:blink:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Rust said:


> Im sorry your weak little mind has led you to believe that this is suppose to offend or bother me, the thread is called "The last straw for HD and ME" not dont shop at home depot. None the less it entertains you in some simple minded way so do what you do.:blink:



You should check out the sales they are having at Home Depot. They are great this week. :thumbup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rust,

You know they are jerking you chain, because it upsets you. Stand back take a breath, it will pass. You will still be union, they will be open shop and WORKING.:blink:

Sorry about that last comment, had to get at least one bit of sarcasm in.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> Rust,
> 
> You know they are jerking you chain,


I am not jerking his chain, I really think he is a worthless SOB.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I am not jerking his chain, I really think he is a worthless SOB.


Yep sure keep it coming


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Rust said:


> Yep sure keep it coming


 
ohhh its just not worth it....


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Yea keep it coming, He will just CRY and have your posts removed too. He can dish it out but can't take it


Im sorry but have you even read the thread, what is your rediculous motivation to simply stir the pot. Once again let me point out I had posts removed to because you apparently CRY and whine just as bad get over yourself robyn.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Who's that trip-pity trapping on my bridge?


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