# Residential housing



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Spartan98 said:


> Does anybody have any tips in ways to speed up production in doing residential? Maybe certain power tools that work better in certain applications? Any ideas are greatly appreciated.


 
One thing that helps me is I have a 40" drill. I can drill most houses out completley on rough in with no ladder.


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## Spartan98 (Nov 25, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> One thing that helps me is I have a 40" drill. I can drill most houses out completley on rough in with no ladder.


What kind of drill specifically? And where can I buy one at?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Milwaukee makes one. Got a couple from auction. Do not use long 18" bits with them


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## Spartan98 (Nov 25, 2012)

I've been searching online for a while now and I can't find that long drill. I heard about it before and now definitely want one as I know it will speed up things a lot. Let me know where I can buy one at.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I have gone back to banging on rough-in boxes with a hammer and nails. I think it's faster than screws and an impact.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Its a 
Milwaukee 48-95-0400 about $120 without the drill


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## sparky250 (Aug 28, 2012)

Do you guys feel that using this 48-95-0400 with a pistol drill or D handle gives enough drilling power?? Do you put a short auger bit on the front??

I use a milwaukee hole hawg or super hawg with the 18" quick lock extension and a 12" bit.


Also what is the advantage of nailing boxes on? It would work for the single gang boxes, but what about 2,3,4gang - then you use a drill no?? Also if you have to add blocks of 2x4 for spacing if you drive a 10x3" screw through the blocks it is nice and sturdy


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

sparky250 said:


> Do you guys feel that using this 48-95-0400 with a pistol drill or D handle gives enough drilling power?? Do you put a short auger bit on the front??
> 
> I use a milwaukee hole hawg or super hawg with the 18" quick lock extension and a 12" bit.
> 
> ...


For me, its faster for all the receptacle boxes a foot off the floor. Of course, I apprenticed before nails became extinct. It's second nature for me to bang boxes on with a hammer


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Consistency is _key_ for me 

We shaprie the _'plan'_ throughout, cut a 16" & 46" stick to mount boxes 18" & 48" C/L , stacker out anything over two wires, run the drills, yank in the rope 

we always will use extra rope _vs._ routing/ drillage time

we'll utilize a common nomenclature for marking it all, and cut them all in at once

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> One thing that helps me is I have a 40" drill. I can drill most houses out completley on rough in with no ladder.


Because posting here stunted your growth McClary....?:jester:~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Consistency is _key_ for me
> 
> We shaprie the _'plan'_ throughout, cut a 16" & 46" stick to mount boxes 18" & 48" C/L , stacker out anything over two wires, run the drills, yank in the rope
> 
> ...


Pretty much same here. I also setup 1000 foot rolls on rackatiers in one spot and yank away.

http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/product/6/Rack-A-Tiers-Wire-Dispenser


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Let me go and check with 480 to find out the right way to do it.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Let me go and check with 480 to find out the right way to do it.


Don't bother. All you need to know is that whatever way YOU do it is wrong. :laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Because posting here stunted your growth McClary....?:jester:~CS~


 
Well, it may be a few other things too...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Well, it may be a few other things too...


.... all that gay sex? :blink:


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Hole hawg :whistling2: that just makes me laugh


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Let me go and check with 480 to find out the right way to do it.



I can't do anything 'right'. I use UF, remember. That alone is an abomination under any circumstance.





Oh, and I use blue nail-on Carlon boxes, too.






And PVC conduit.






And SER cable.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Buy a Passload framing nail gun, the propane powered one that comes in an orange kit, and a skill saw (worm drive is not required, too heavy - overkill) .

That is for cutting and installing backing for boxes , fans and getting it in really fast, instead of fooling around with hand nailing or screws.

If you find yourself struggling to pull some cable thru a run of holes that don't line up right or something, put yellow 77 lube on the cable first, its not just for pulling wire thru conduit. 

Plan it out and pull multiple runs for home runs at the same time.


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## MollyHatchet29 (Jan 24, 2012)

BBQ said:


> .... all that gay sex? :blink:


I swear, I never said a word about it to anyone, McClary...


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

That extension drill has been around for years. I wish they made it for the super hog
Make a 24" 2x4 measuring stick for marking out holes, drilling out walls. 24" is the perfect height above outlets, gives you distance above outlet to staple, and good distance up to switches. Stay on the floor your working on when lacing out. Drill the crap out of it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

123electric said:


> ..........
> Make a 24" 2x4 measuring stick for marking out holes, drilling out walls. 24" is the perfect height above outlets, gives you distance above outlet to staple, and good distance up to switches. Stay on the floor your working on when lacing out. Drill the crap out of it.


Measuring and marking for holes is a waste of time (unless you're running conduit). Let the drill hang down as far as your arms will hold it comfortably and drill away.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes I do that too.. Previous post I made should have said extreme high end housing. 15k sq ft with 800 amp Main with ATS and 800 amp I-line all troughed out, NQOD panels. Not quite in the same category as spec track housing slap it in speed.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Measuring and marking for holes is a waste of time (unless you're running conduit). Let the drill hang down as far as your arms will hold it comfortably and drill away.


That's my method. Mix yours with Steve's, and that's how I've always done it. Do all the layout for devices (with 2x4s cut to length for switches and receps) and such on the studs, pound on boxes, drill away, and rope.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

123electric said:


> Yes I do that too.. Previous post I made should have said extreme high end housing. 15k sq ft with 800 amp Main with ATS and 800 amp I-line all troughed out, NQOD panels. Not quite in the same category as spec track housing slap it in speed.


If you are running romex to plastic boxes, and the walls are getting rocked or wood paneled, then who gives a damn if the romex is off by an inch in a line? I have worked in multi-million dollar houses, and we still never bothered with making marks for drilling. Just hang the drill and go to town. The finished product was always gorgeous, as well.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Spartan98 said:


> Residential housing


Sorry to derail, but isn't that redundant? :001_huh:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

123electric said:


> Yes I do that too.. Previous post I made should have said extreme high end housing. 15k sq ft with 800 amp Main with ATS and 800 amp I-line all troughed out, NQOD panels. Not quite in the same category as spec track housing slap it in speed.


So you prefer to waste time only when roping rich people's houses?


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

480sparky said:


> So you prefer to waste time only when roping rich people's houses?


Not wasting time, just make it look pretty when they walk through on the weekends. Not seeing holes all zig zagged, all rx straight, twist free. Stapled flat, just clean period.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

It does not take long once you get in the habit of working super neat. We even sweep up after ourselves!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

123electric said:


> Not wasting time, just make it look pretty when they walk through on the weekends. Not seeing holes all zig zagged, all rx straight, twist free. Stapled flat, just clean period.


It's still a waste. They'll never see it once the rock goes up.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes you are right it is kind of a waste of time. My old timer friend (electrician too) always said "the walls aren't maid of glass, when the sheet rock goes on and the world is good" 
He is right, I'm just a little to anal retentive


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> It's still a waste. They'll never see it once the rock goes up.


Good to see you figured out how to use your quote button again.. :laughing:


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

123electric said:


> It does not take long once you get in the habit of working super neat. We even sweep up after ourselves!


Sweeping up is completely different.

If you do as the others have said and just hang your arms down to a comfortable position and drill away, no one would be able to tel that you didn't mark it out, it will be more than straight enough.

This, in my opinion, is like using a level when installing a new device box. As a professional you use your eye, there is no need for a level. If it looks straight to your discerning eye, then it will look straight to the customer's. Using a level could make it look off since many times the molding next to it is not perfectly level or plumb.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes occasionally I also " hang my arms down and just drill away with the super hog and a sharp 1" nail eater" if I know we did not have in the budget better outlet opening prices and can't spare a few minutes more per opening.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dangerously said:


> Sweeping up is completely different.
> 
> If you do as the others have said and just hang your arms down to a comfortable position and drill away, no one would be able to tel that you didn't mark it out, it will be more than straight enough.
> 
> This, in my opinion, is like using a level when installing a new device box. As a professional you use your eye, there is no need for a level. If it looks straight to your discerning eye, then it will look straight to the customer's. Using a level could make it look off since many times the molding next to it is not perfectly level or plumb.


I always use a level when boxing out the kitchen. Nothing sucks more than having the floor ¾" out of level from one corner to the next and that getting transferred to the countertop receps set in tile.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

123electric said:


> Yes occasionally I also " hang my arms down and just drill away with the super hog and a sharp 1" nail eater" if I know we did not have in the budget better outlet opening prices and can't spare a few minutes more per opening.


A few minutes more per opening is hours more on the total. That's a lot of money thrown away.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I use the 40" drill and snap chalk lines for drilling holes,(it not only looks neat, the wires pull in easier). I have a jig for nailing boxes that's 1/2" thick and has a notch cut out of it at the proper height.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> A few minutes more per opening is hours more on the total. That's a lot of money thrown away.


I never thought of it that way. I could probably save allot more if I start to loosen up a bit.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

wendon said:


> I use the 40" drill and snap chalk lines for drilling holes,(it not only looks neat, the wires pull in easier). I have a jig for nailing boxes that's 1/2" thick and has a notch cut out of it at the proper height.


Wow now that's a good idea. Can you post a pick of the template you use? Sound awesome! Shoot me a message if that's better for you.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

You should have a jog in your hand already, your hammer.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Not with a cut out spot for the box and a tab stop for 1/2".
I know what you mean though


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

123electric said:


> Wow now that's a good idea. Can you post a pick of the template you use? Sound awesome! Shoot me a message if that's better for you.


It's pretty basic!! Here's a rough sketch of it. Just make it out of 1/2" wood or however far you're setting your boxes out. I set most of my boxes 14" to the bottom. I suppose you could make one for switch boxes but I don't know it that would be worth the effort!!


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

480sparky said:


> It's still a waste. They'll never see it once the rock goes up.


This is one of the reasons good tradesman can't make decent money doing houses. 
When your boss says"just throw it in there, I don't care how it looks" it just drags our trade down to lawnmower and roofer status.
Crappy attitudes like this are one of the biggest problems with the trade today. Oh, that and out of control N.E.C. code making panels.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> This is one of the reasons good tradesman can't make decent money doing houses.


Bull crap.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> This is one of the reasons good tradesman can't make decent money doing houses.
> When your boss says"just throw it in there, I don't care how it looks" it just drags our trade down to lawnmower and roofer status.
> Crappy attitudes like this are one of the biggest problems with the trade today. Oh, that and out of control N.E.C. code making panels.


I either must not be a "good tradesman" or I'm not making "decent" money! Please tell that to the IRS!!:laughing:Would you care to elaborate on the out of control code making panels? Just curious. Probably my biggest beef would be the AFCI issue. Personally I think that was a good example of manufacturers pushing their product.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

So, wendon, you are making good money doing houses? This is good to hear. Your GC's don't beat you down to the going rate?
Have you ever figured out your hourly rate on new home construction? Do you have highest paid guys doing resi new construction? Do you do a high quality job or just the fastest. I am truly interested to know how I could do new resi and still pay my guys what they deserve.
Thanks
Scott


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> This is one of the reasons good tradesman can't make decent money doing houses.
> When your boss says"just throw it in there, I don't care how it looks" it just drags our trade down to lawnmower and roofer status.
> Crappy attitudes like this are one of the biggest problems with the trade today. Oh, that and out of control N.E.C. code making panels.



How wonderfully straight and artistically perfect is the wiring in YOUR walls? :whistling2:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> So, wendon, you are making good money doing houses? This is good to hear. Your GC's don't beat you down to the going rate?
> Have you ever figured out your hourly rate on new home construction? Do you have highest paid guys doing resi new construction? Do you do a high quality job or just the fastest. I am truly interested to know how I could do new resi and still pay my guys what they deserve.
> Thanks
> Scott


I wouldn't say the money is as good in resi work as commercial but I still make money on it. I'm fortunate to live in a rural area and know most of the people I work for. Most of my jobs, I'm the only one bidding the job. Basically all my work is either word of mouth or return customers. I would never want to do resi work in a large city!:no: Also, I don't think the larger shops can compete with the smaller ones for resi work. Just my opinion.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

wendon said:


> I wouldn't say the money is as good in resi work as commercial but I still make money on it. I'm fortunate to live in a rural area and know most of the people I work for. Most of my jobs, I'm the only one bidding the job. Basically all my work is either word of mouth or return customers. I would never want to do resi work in a large city!:no: Also, I don't think the larger shops can compete with the smaller ones for resi work. Just my opinion.


That is exactly what I was saying. Have you ever figured your hourly rate on a new house? If you are like me you probably don't want to because it might make you cry. If everybody would use real electricians and do quality work things might be different.
If you can do it great for you. I use it more for fill in work but I wonder why I do it at all. If I have to do a half assed job like 480 wants me to I just won't do it at all. Especially if I am not making any money on it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> .....If I have to do a half assed job like 480 wants me to:-......


So not being anal is half assed ? Seriously.... You assume I drill one hole at 25" the next at 38, then down to 4, then up to 49......

I drill across the studs with no more variance than an inch. And I don't need any first-year goober's tape measure and pencil marks to do it.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

wendon said:


> I wouldn't say the money is as good in resi work as commercial but I still make money on it. I'm fortunate to live in a rural area and know most of the people I work for. Most of my jobs, I'm the only one bidding the job. Basically all my work is either word of mouth or return customers. I would never want to do resi work in a large city!:no: Also, I don't think the larger shops can compete with the smaller ones for resi work. Just my opinion.


Around here almost all of the new construction is done by the larger companies. I couldn't even buy my material and pay my labor with what they charge.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

480sparky said:


> They'll never see it once the rock goes up.


Its the attitude.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

A while back the company I worked for was asked to bid on a new house for the landlord of our shop. We came in 25% higher than the next highest bid. Since my boss and him were close, he asked the guy how are they doing it so cheap? His answer was that they guys wiring the house have wired a large number of the homes in that development and they sleep on the jobsite and just move one to the next. Its easy to pay next to nothing when the employees don't have any living expenses.


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## doogie (Feb 16, 2011)

First off my forman now macks off all houses.But I like to box out whole house first and tie in all dead end wires as pulling.I mack all homerun in panel.on top floor or open trusses slid ladder,but everybody has there own little things to do.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Deep Cover said:


> A while back the company I worked for was asked to bid on a new house for the landlord of our shop. We came in 25% higher than the next highest bid. Since my boss and him were close, he asked the guy how are they doing it so cheap? His answer was that they guys wiring the house have wired a large number of the homes in that development and they sleep on the jobsite and just move one to the next. Its easy to pay next to nothing when the employees don't have any living expenses.


I am betting these are not high paid, high quality electricians on site either. Maybe but probably not. You think there hole go at an angle?


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

I still don't understand, what professional electrician who is using the length of his arms and his own leg as a guide can't drill holes at the same height and make it look neat?


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## doogie (Feb 16, 2011)

You get what you pay .There is builder here pay $6.00 per outlet just for labor and say you have two to three days or we fine you all extra days .they have trouble finding good people to do there work.


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

wendon said:


> I use the 40" drill and snap chalk lines for drilling holes,(it not only looks neat, the wires pull in easier). I have a jig for nailing boxes that's 1/2" thick and has a notch cut out of it at the proper height.


I'm not the only one who drills perfectly straight somtimes.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

480sparky said:


> I always use a level when boxing out the kitchen. Nothing sucks more than having the floor ¾" out of level from one corner to the next and that getting transferred to the countertop receps set in tile.


best info in this thread.....the kitchen is the money shot....rest of the time...everybody hold up your hammers....same length...? get busy..rope chaulk line? no never did that...just keep hr's straight in basement..drill one line up with hawg bang next....roping house is tight/time/money you gotta move and groove to cash in....speed and mistake free...hated doing them....


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Dangerously said:


> I still don't understand, what *professional* electrician who is using the length of his arms and his own leg as a guide can't drill holes at the same height and make it look neat?


I totally agree with this. What 480 is saying is that you don't need to do a good job, just jam it in there and cover it.
I am saying this is why a person or company has a very hard time making decent money at new home wiring.

Good to have you back.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Its the attitude.


How much does that pay?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> I totally agree with this. What 480 is saying is that you don't need to do a good job, just jam it in there and cover it.
> I am saying this is why a person or company has a very hard time making decent money at new home wiring.
> 
> Good to have you back.


*YOU *are saying that, not *me*. *YOU* are. And you keep repeating it over and over and over, hoping it will stick.

I've already stated it twice that I don't need a tape measure to drill holes in straight line. Apparently you cannot comprehend this. Maybe because you can't do it.



Dangerously said:


> I still don't understand, what professional electrician who is using the length of his arms and his own leg as a guide can't drill holes at the same height and make it look neat?


sbrn33, that's who.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> I totally agree with this. What 480 is saying is that you don't need to do a good job, just jam it in there and cover it.
> I am saying this is why a person or company has a very hard time making decent money at new home wiring.
> 
> Good to have you back.


Can you please quote where 480 says he doesn't give a damn on how his work looks, and just jams it in there? If +-1" on holes zipped through studs doesn't meet your demands, then fine, but 99.999999999% of homeowners are OK with it, and have had more than 1 millionaire that was more than satisfied with it. Holes not being within .0001" of each other ain't going to effect the reliability of electrical equipment, nor will it make pulling the wire that much easier. Once you get into the swing of it, and have a system down for how you hold the hole hawg, the holes just don't wander enough for people to care, or at least that has been my experience. If the customer is sooo OCD that they want all the holes in studs perfectly straight, then they can pay extra.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Going_Commando said:


> If the customer is sooo OCD that they want all the holes in studs perfectly straight, then they can pay extra.


If that was built into the bid, then I would pass on bidding it. There will be no satisfying that type of customer.:no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The logic of "nobody sees it" once the drywall is up has one major flaw....

The builder will see it....

The electrical Inspector will see it..

The insulators will see it..

The building inspector will see it...

The plumbing inspector will see it... 

The drywall installers will see it...

And anyone else walking through the job site "just looking" will see it....

My point is this is how you build a good rep and if one of the above people gets asked for a good electrician... your name just might come up..

A recommendation is the only thing more important to most people than a cheap price..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> ...........
> The builder will see it....
> 
> The electrical Inspector will see it..
> ...



Will any of those people really care?


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Will any of those people really care?


No, not really.

To be honest, most tradesmen couldn't tell the difference between a great job and an average job. It's just yellow and white cable to them.

A while back I posted a picture which included 2 4" pre-bent 90's with couplings. I got a crapload of criticism because I didn't bend the back to back 90's in 1 pipe by hand.

Who cares? Does ANYONE except for an electrician know the difference?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Will any of those people really care?


Who knows.. but you at least try... throwing up your hands and doing a hack job gains you nothing in the end result...

It doesn't take that much longer to do a picture perfect job that you can be proud of....


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

B4T said:


> Who knows.. but you at least try... throwing up your hands and doing a hack job gains you nothing in the end result...
> 
> It doesn't take that much longer to do a picture perfect job that you can be proud of....


I agree that it's good to make it nice.

But I disagree that marking out every hole will make any real difference. 

FWIW, I do snap a line when I drill holes across a long basement when the joists will be exposed. But in that case I don't have my arms and leg to use as a guide and it's only 1 or two lines to snap, not every stud in the house.


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## doogie (Feb 16, 2011)

Plus inspectors like to see nice neat work .less likely to look .


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

123electric said:


> It does not take long once you get in the habit of working super neat. We even sweep up after ourselves!


I pull the romex from the center of the coil and then staple :laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> The logic of "nobody sees it" once the drywall is up has one major flaw....
> 
> The builder will see it....
> 
> ...


But the bottom line is most everyone you mentioned wants to see the price. I snapped lines for drilling back in the day, squared runs. Nobody cared and it just wasted time and money. Drilling angles and hacking makes me money and in the end, the products work, pass inspection and the extra time and material are mine.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Layout, Box, Drill, Pull HR's, Pull Everything Else, Assemble Service, go have lunch. :laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

there''s neat & workmanlike

and then there's neat , workmanlike AND compliant

jmho....

~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I use an 18" ship auger bit. As I start into the stud, I make sure the bit is level, and I let the chuck rub against the next stud on the way in. That gives me a mark of where to stick the bit for the next hole. I can drill accross an entire 40' wall and the holes will be straight and level. People watching me drill can't even tell I'm doing it.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I use an 18" ship auger bit. As I start into the stud, I make sure the bit is level, and I let the chuck rub against the next stud on the way in. That gives me a mark of where to stick the bit for the next hole. I can drill accross an entire 40' wall and the holes will be straight and level. People watching me drill can't even tell I'm doing it.


Thhaaaat is clever.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Hey 480, shockdoc is on your side. You must be right.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> How much does that pay?


It pays a lot more then spending 23 1/2 hours each day being self proclaimed know it all on electrical forums.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So how many here _'loop'_ wires externally to the box.....? ~CS~


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Spartan98 said:


> Does anybody have any tips in ways to speed up production in doing residential?












plus for labor help









Reading this thread reminds me of how I'm glad I don't compete in that market. If I did, I would not be the low cost producer.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

19kilosparky984 said:


> It pays a lot more then spending 23 1/2 hours each day being self proclaimed know it all on electrical forums.


Compared to spending 23¾ hours a day on internet forums researching how much time others spend spend on internet forums.

I guess you can't comprehend the fact I'm not wasting my time on the job site.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

So what's the best way to strip the NM jacket at the box? Strip it then push it in the box or strip it after it's in the box?

Do you install the NM in the box as you pull or leave it hanging and come back to put it in the box later?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> So what's the best way to strip the NM jacket at the box? Strip it then push it in the box or strip it after it's in the box?
> 
> Do you install the NM in the box as you pull or leave it hanging and come back to put it in the box later?



I strip it then run it into the box.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I think just like any type of work it comes down to efficiency. Do you have everything you need? Are you using the fewest steps to get the work completed?

Do you stop and "chat" with other workers? That is probably one of the biggest time/efficiency killers.

When you are finished with something, take it back to the truck on a trip to get something. Don't wait until the end of the day to pick up everything.

Whatever you do, slow down enough to get it right the 1st time. You cannot make a good living going back to fix a mistake.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I strip it then run it into the box.


I have to agree, I could never get into the strip it after it's in the box thing.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I think just like any type of work it comes down to efficiency. Do you have everything you need? Are you using the fewest steps to get the work completed?
> 
> Do you stop and "chat" with other workers? That is probably one of the biggest time/efficiency killers.
> 
> ...


I'm so efficient I only spend ½ hour a day working, and the other 23½ on innernets forums.:laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I got a hybrid method: Pull cable 3/4 into the box, cut sheath with Klein strippers just outside the box, last pull strips the sheath and pulls the slack into the box.

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> I got a hybrid method: Pull cable 3/4 into the box, cut sheath with Klein strippers just outside the box, last pull strips the sheath and pulls the slack into the box.


Commie freak!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I learned my wire stripping techniques from Stalin himself. He may have been a murderous despotic bastard, but you gotta hand it to him: Man could that guy rough in a house.

-John


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Big John said:


> I learned my wire stripping techniques from Stalin himself. He may have been a murderous despotic bastard, but you gotta hand it to him: Man could that guy rough in a house.
> 
> -John


And he learned it from Lenin.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

The Habitat For Humanity in our area runs romex into the boxes without stripping it at all. I guess that is what they made these for.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

480sparky said:


> And he learned it from Lenin.


I've heard stories: Apparently Lenin only used SE cable; the Gulag was built for everyone caught running PVC risers.

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> the Gulag was built for everyone caught running PVC risers.


So they did have some good policies after all.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> So what's the best way to strip the NM jacket at the box? Strip it then push it in the box or strip it after it's in the box?
> 
> Do you install the NM in the box as you pull or leave it hanging and come back to put it in the box later?


I use my Klein romex strippers to cut the sheath outside of the box, but I leave the sheath on because it's easier to get the cable in that way. As I pull the cable into the box the sheath will rip right off as soon as the cable is fully into the box where it's supposed to be.

I will usually pull all the romex first and then go back and cut it all in and make the splices and do the grounding. Or, I will come and cut in right behind a pair of guys who are pulling and stapling the wires.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> When you are finished with something, take it back to the truck on a trip to get something. Don't wait until the end of the day to pick up everything.


I used to do exactly that until I found myself running into something new later in the day and needing to go back out to get something that I brought back earlier :laughing: I found it easier to just leave it all out until the end of the day, it'll only take a couple of minutes more, that'll save me from breaking stride when doing the work.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Compared to spending 23¾ hours a day on internet forums researching how much time others spend spend on internet forums.
> 
> I guess you can't comprehend the fact I'm not wasting my time on the job site.


I am convinced like my others on here that you have no jobs and haven't worked in years.

Your just a full time Internet jerkwad . 

Just by glancing at your avatar it's very easy to tell you camp out online, no research is necessary.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Remember, when you point a finger, there's three pointing back Kilo....~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Remember, when you point a finger, there's three pointing back Kilo....~CS~


Expect profanity laced response ...... :laughing:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Be nice you screwballs. Dennis is just itching to close a thread. Its been a day already.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Big John said:


> I got a hybrid method: Pull cable 3/4 into the box, cut sheath with Klein strippers just outside the box, last pull strips the sheath and pulls the slack into the box.
> 
> -John


I quit using them after a customers called me back because the bathroom lighting circuit I worked on failed. They had an old ceiling fixture with burnt wiring. I cut out the wiring, installed two 4 sq JB in the attic and ran new wiring stripping the sheathing with a pair of 









Sometime after I left, the roof started to leak and one of the boxes was incased in ice. The ground and hot shorted out at the point where the tool cuts the jacket because it cuts a little too deep. Then because it was wet, it started to burn down the romex. I only use a utility knife now.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Expect profanity laced response ...... :laughing:


Chicken Steve's LSD laced banter is entertaining.

You on the other hand are as much if not a worst Internet electrical fake as that 480 moron.

You guys could save on rent and share a basement together.


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

Do the romex sheath strippers work fairly well? I always pull the cable around the box, then slice it open with my razor, peel it open and slice it off, then stuff it in. Was thinking of getting one of the katapult strippers to speed things up.

edit, nvmd. while i was replying somebody else already commented on my concerns. I'll stick with the tried and true method for now.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

backstay said:


> I quit using them after a customers called me back because the bathroom lighting circuit I worked on failed. They had an old ceiling fixture with burnt wiring. I cut out the wiring, installed two 4 sq JB in the attic and ran new wiring stripping the sheathing with a pair of
> 
> Sometime after I left, the roof started to leak and one of the boxes was incased in ice. The ground and hot shorted out at the point where the tool cuts the jacket because it cuts a little too deep. Then because it was wet, it started to burn down the romex. I only use a utility knife now.


So the tool you used to strip the wire back caused the roof to leak?

Wow man I gotta stop using them.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

I've inspected random cuts with my Klein romex strippers thoroughly and it has never even nicked the conductor insulation. When using then, I don't squeeze too hard. All you need is a good perforation and then the sheath rips right off.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

It's funny how we get into camps: The reason I don't like razor knives is because I've come behind too many guys who would cut all the way down to the copper when stripping with them. And here we have guys saying that's why they don't use Klein strippers.

All I can say is I try to be careful, and I never noticed that I'd cut through the conductor insulation with them. But I could see how if the jaws wore, and the stripping diameter shrank, that could happen. In my case the cutter got dull and I always replaced the tool before it reached that point.

-John


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> No, not really.
> 
> To be honest, most tradesmen couldn't tell the difference between a great job and an average job. It's just yellow and white cable to them.


This is just flat out wrong. I don't know what kind of "tradesmen" you work with


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

19kilosparky984 said:


> I am convinced like my others on here that you have no jobs and haven't worked in years.
> 
> Your just a full time Internet jerkwad .
> 
> Just by glancing at your avatar it's very easy to tell you camp out online, no research is necessary.


At least I do more as an internet jerkwad here than you do. All you can do is find fault with everyone and call them names like a four-year-old.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Chicken Steve's LSD laced banter is entertaining.
> 
> You on the other hand are as much if not a worst Internet electrical fake as that 480 moron.
> 
> You guys could save on rent and share a basement together.


Thank you for proving my point.

Maybe you and electricmanscott should rent a room.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

And I thought Harry and I were bad at times. :laughing:


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

boys, you are both pretty.

how about the topic at hand?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

:lol: Somebody's gonna chip a nail.

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

This place is awesome. :laughing:


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

when tagging wires out, write a note on the wall asking siding guys to use a 1" hole.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The really weird couple is macmikeman and macmikeman...........:laughing:


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> This is just flat out wrong. I don't know what kind of "tradesmen" you work with


Maybe it's just me.

The drywallers you work with can tell the difference in an installation in which the holes are perfectly level with each other and one where they may be off by half an inch or so? The plumbers? The floor guys?

What do you do at jobs, inspect everyone else's work with a tape measure and magnifying glass?


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

So everyone knows my thoughts on residential work and how I find it brainless most of the time. So my question is to the people arguing here is, " has it become so brainless that the only thing that's stands in the way of great job from an ok job is level holes? Really? So having vertical screws on trim out not that important now?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> The really weird couple is macmikeman and macmikeman...........:laughing:


Personally, I like a threesome. Me, myself and I.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> Maybe it's just me.
> 
> The drywallers you work with can tell the difference in an installation in which the holes are perfectly level with each other and one where they may be off by half an inch or so? The plumbers? The floor guys?
> 
> What do you do at jobs, inspect everyone else's work with a tape measure and magnifying glass?


you got me all wrong. i don't care what you do with your rope and how you drill your holes. i dont do residential work so i honestly couldn't care less. you said most tradeworkers can't tell the difference between an exceptional job and an ok job and i said you're full of $hit, unless you work with a bunch of gomers


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> you got me all wrong. i don't care what you do with your rope and how you drill your holes. i dont do residential work so i honestly couldn't care less. you said most tradeworkers can't tell the difference between an exceptional job and an ok job and i said you're full of $hit, unless you work with a bunch of gomers


I guess you didn't read this thread because the entire point is that many people say if you don't measure out the holes and make every one of them perfect it is a hack job. And that is what I was talking about. 

However, I will expand and say that most tradesmen wouldn't know the difference between an average job and an exceptional job because only electricians know what that is. 

When you quoted me, you conveniently left out an important part of my post:



Dangerously said:


> A while back I posted a picture which included 2 4" pre-bent 90's with couplings. I got a crapload of criticism because I didn't bend the back to back 90's in 1 pipe by hand.
> 
> Who cares? Does ANYONE except for an electrician know the difference?


Now tell me, what taper, painter, or tile guy is going to know the difference between a back to back 90 on a single pipe or factory 90's installed with couplings? Most of what we consider "exceptional" is something that no one else would ever know, or care about.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> I guess you didn't read this thread because the entire point is that many people say if you don't measure out the holes and make every one of them perfect it is a hack job. And that is what I was talking about.
> 
> However, I will expand and say that most tradesmen wouldn't know the difference between an average job and an exceptional job because only electricians know what that is.
> 
> ...


i guess thats what it comes down to- who cares and who doesn't. ill continue to do it my way but the day i hear another electrician say "why didnt that guy just use a factory 90 and a couple factory 45s?" im hanging up the tools


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

Why didnt that guy just use a factory 90 and a couple factory 45s? :shifty:


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> i guess thats what it comes down to- who cares and who doesn't. ill continue to do it my way but the day i hear another electrician say "why didnt that guy just use a factory 90 and a couple factory 45s?" im hanging up the tools


Well then hang up your tools because I am saying that right now!

You think I am going to order a table bender to a job for a single run when I could just order 2 90's straight from the supplier?

Once again, what is the difference? How is the end result any different? Who will ever care about said difference? Customers don't pay contractors money to appease their own electrician's arrogance.

One day when you run work and then after that when you're running the company, you WILL see things differently. It's funny how people stop wasting money when it starts being their own.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Dangerously said:


> It's funny how people stop wasting money when it starts being their own.


Ain't that the truth!


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Ain't that the truth!


I remember doing service changes, I would use the boss's credit card at the supply house and buy a box of romex connectors and a ground bar. The ground bar wasn't necessary since it was the main disconnect so you could land the grounds on the neutral bar, but that was too "Hack" for me. The same goes with using the old connectors that were already on the cables. The boss got mad, but I would just say that he was an idiot.

Today, now that it's my money, I say screw it! I'm not spending $8-9 on a ground bar or buying a box of romex connectors, I'm using the neutral bar and reusing the old romex connectors, and that'll save me time too! Chaching!!!!!!


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> Well then hang up your tools because I am saying that right now!
> 
> You think I am going to order a table bender to a job for a single run when I could just order 2 90's straight from the supplier?
> 
> ...


its a valid point and i do run work. but i get the feeling we work in two different worlds. we do a lot of factory work and i like to remind the customer why they pay us to be there. maybe someday i'll work for a guy like you and if that happens ill do it however you pay me to


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> we do a lot of factory work and i like to remind the customer why they pay us to be there.


If that's what they're looking for, I am MORE than happy to give it to them.

However, many customers aren't willing to spend thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars more on something that really makes no difference to anyone except for other electrician. 

The electrons don't care if there is an extra coupling or two in the pipe, only the electricians :laughing:


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## Hairbone (Feb 16, 2011)

Dangerously said:


> I remember doing service changes, I would use the boss's credit card at the supply house and buy a box of romex connectors and a ground bar. The ground bar wasn't necessary since it was the main disconnect so you could land the grounds on the neutral bar, but that was too "Hack" for me. The same goes with using the old connectors that were already on the cables. The boss got mad, but I would just say that he was an idiot.
> 
> Today, now that it's my money, I say screw it! I'm not spending $8-9 on a ground bar or buying a box of romex connectors, I'm using the neutral bar and reusing the old romex connectors, and that'll save me time too! Chaching!!!!!!


:thumbsup: And when you get to that point you scab off the old panels busswork and toss it in a scrap bucket to!


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

Hairbone said:


> :thumbsup: And when you get to that point you scab off the old panels busswork and toss it in a scrap bucket to!


I've only changed out the bus instead of the whole panel before :thumbsup:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> So everyone knows my thoughts on residential work and how I find it brainless most of the time. So my question is to the people arguing here is, " has it become so brainless that the only thing that's stands in the way of great job from an ok job is level holes? Really? So having vertical screws on trim out not that important now?


Horizontal. And I use a level on the recepts.


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

I level recepts that arent near any trim, otherwise its eyeball time.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

union347sparky said:


> So everyone knows my thoughts on residential work and how I find it brainless most of the time.


 
Resi is the most _challenging _dollar a sparky will make in this trade, which is why few U-sparkies _can't_ compete

~CS~


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

There's a multitude of reasons why it's hard to make money in roping new housing.

1. EVERYBODY wants a part of it.
2. It's easy. A well-trained JW and a monkey can bang 'em out day after day.
3. It's quick. A couple days roughing, another day trimming. Payday!
4. Many places have a license for just resi work. So you don't need to learn MDPs and fire alarms and 3-phase and motors and transformers and VFDs and Classified Locations and all that other 'stuff' to rope a house.
5. Most electricians start out in resi. So if they hang out their own shingles early on, that's what they 'specialize' in, because they don't know commercial.
6. Every second-year apprentice can rope a house. So they advertise on Craigslist in hopes of making a killing working for $2.25/ft² during evenings and weekends.
7. Every_ laid-off_ second-year apprentice can rope a house. So they advertise on Craigslist all day long in hopes of making a killing working for $2/ft² with no working capital to do the job right.
8. Laid-off second-year apprentices working for $2/ft² have succeeded in commoditizing the trade. They have trained the builders that all electricians are the same, and can be readily had for below-market rates.
9. Most builders don't care about quality and craftsmanship. They care about _price_. They'll gladly dump you if they can hire the next bozo for $5 less.
10. Once a laid-off second-year apprentice realizes he can't make any money at $2/ft², he either gets his job back at Fly-By-Night Electric or takes a job at Grease Monkey. This causes another six laid-off second-year apprentices to scramble to fill the void.


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Resi is the most challenging dollar a sparky will make in this trade, which is why few U-sparkies can't compete
> 
> ~CS~


You're right. I don't like working for practically nothing.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> There's a multitude of reasons why it's hard to make money in roping new housing.
> 
> .


and there's multitudes of reasons why few _'get it right'_ ....

1)lack of licensure

2)lack of oversight

3)the quickest code(s) evolution in the nec

4)the quickest market evolution 

ect....

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

union347sparky said:


> You're right. I don't like working for practically nothing.


And you would be , as would any of us who are non competitive out of our given niches 347

but fwiw, i've made more $$$ ropin' ski bunny McMansions than you'll ever see in the IBEW , er...._brudda_....

~CS~


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

macmike alway say: Better to rope house on beach at Bonzai Pipeline than to bend conduit inside cold highrise in Iowa any day, any time period, no compare Bruddah, you get stung







.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> macmike alway say: Better to rope house on beach at Bonzai Pipeline than to bend conduit inside cold highrise in Iowa any day, any time period, no compare Bruddah, you get stung .


You live in Hawaii, we get it. Congratulations.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

It is the necessary medicine for hotshots who think pipebending all day long is the only way to go..


P.S. I do (well, did) plenty of conduit work as well, and frankly it's mostly just another facet of the trade, not the premier spot.


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## Spartan98 (Nov 25, 2012)

The bottom line is no matter if your running pipe or roughing in a house, they are both equally demanding...both mentally and physically...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> macmike alway say: Better to rope house on beach at Bonzai Pipeline than to bend conduit inside cold highrise in Iowa any day, any time period, no compare Bruddah, you get stung .



I filled up for $2.99/gal today. :whistling2: I can buy veggies and meat less than 5 minutes old. I don't have a billion bugs in my back yard.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I filled up for $2.99/gal today. :whistling2: I can buy veggies and meat less than 5 minutes old. I don't have a billion bugs in my back yard.


You really only got me on the gasoline, we are pretty close to $4. You would be surprised how few flying bugs there are here, way way way less than what you find in the South. Oh, and I get fresh radiation filled Ahi Tuna here caught from the family boat. Sometimes we eat it right on board out at sea.....:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> You really only got me on the gasoline, we are pretty close to $4. You would be surprised how few flying bugs there are here, way way way less than what you find in the South. Oh, and I get fresh radiation filled Ahi Tuna here caught from the family boat. Sometimes we eat it right on board out at sea.....:thumbsup:


Oh, that's right. You don't have bugs because of the hurricanes. :laughing:


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Oh, that's right. You don't have bugs because of the hurricanes. :laughing:


Actually hurricanes only occur in the Atlantic Ocean.

Perhaps you mean all the typhoons?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

So lets see, two in thirty six years I lived here. Not so bad. Hell, I think even Jersey has had that many.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> So lets see, two in thirty six years I lived here. Not so bad. Hell, I think even Jersey has had that many.


But no one wants to move to Jersey. :laughing:


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