# Romex in plenum?



## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Travis Latiolais said:


> I wired a house that was off the ground(no slab). I ran all my HR's under the house, because ther was no attic(none).I did not realize that the underneath of the house was one big plenum. All of the underneath perimitter is sealed off with cinder blocks. Inspector is the one that caught it, and said, I cant run wires in what is now a plenum. He rejected my inspection. Any one know the code reference, or a possible solution to problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks:confused1:


Let him show you the code reference. I find this hard to believe that he didn't even cite the section which was violated.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you sure it's not just a crawl space ? Are they really going to use the space for environmental air ?


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Travis, check out the exception to 300.22(C) in the 2011 Handbook.

i call BS on the inspector. It's resi, and even if the space is used for return air, you can still wire it.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

wildleg said:


> you sure it's not just a crawl space ? Are they really going to use the space for environmental air ?


I would have to go along with Wildleg on this one... This is a crawl space. The only way (at least in these parts) you could use it for environmental air is to draft it in via an inlet duct. Other than this would be in violation of health codes due to molds, etc. Are the walls solid with no flow through ventilation? In that case he may be getting you on use in a damp location,
with no way the area can "air out".


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

WTF is wrong with people. Nobody uses a crawl for a plenum. WTF is this special Olympics construction?


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

i don't think it's an NM in damp loc. issue or he would have made it that. For some reason, the inspector is saying the crawl is a plenum. O.K. why? He is saying that the crawls prime purpose is for air handling. For cooling maybe? Need more info from Travis.

Your best route to a solution is, leave your HR's where they are, ask for a code article, then show him that the crawl [300.22(C)(2011)] "is an area whose prime purpose is other than air handling." It's there because the house was designed with a stem and raised floor. Sheesh.

If the inspector is just being ultra clever, fight back and have some fresh air circulation vents installed in the stem. Which it should have anyway.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

I need to explain myself here...I meant ALL THE WAY THRU WITH DUCT, whether going thru an updraft unit, or an under-the-house unit (yeah, we still have a few of them left down here!). However, the duct has to be a complete system all the way to the outside perimeter of the building.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

If the op is right, the entire space is a plenum,( I don't know why you guys all say it isn't after the person asking the question told you it is) anyway... the inspector is correct.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> If the op is right, the entire space is a plenum,( I don't know why you guys all say it isn't after the person asking the question told you it is) anyway... the inspector is correct.


The inspector is correct if this is a plenum, but I would bet a million bucks it is not.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

At best only a bay or two are being used as a plenum and you feeds running along in them? Or you have one azz backwards HVAC crew and inspector.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> At best only a bay or two are being used as a plenum and you feeds running along in them? Or you have one azz backwards HVAC crew and inspector.


Yep, many times they'l use one bay, but not the whole crawl. Reason being, you cut a hole ineach room for a return, some rooms are goona have very strong flow, and others have little to none. I'd bet the entire crawl is not being used as a plenum


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> WTF is wrong with people. Nobody uses a crawl for a plenum. WTF is this special Olympics construction?





electricmanscott said:


> If the op is right, the entire space is a plenum,( I don't know why you guys all say it isn't after the person asking the question told you it is) anyway... the inspector is correct.


 
The chance of a crawlspace with vents in the walls from outside, a drain channel to earth around the perimiter, and exposed fiberglass in the bay spaces being used as a return plenum seem very rare. The inspector's a moron.


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## ptcrtn (Mar 14, 2011)

drop the Special Olympics talk. What is wrong with you?


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The chance of a crawlspace with vents in the walls from outside, a drain channel to earth around the perimiter, and exposed fiberglass in the bay spaces being used as a return plenum seem very rare. The inspector's a moron.


I agree with this... Even without the insulation factor, if it isn't ducted (at least in these parts), use of the crawl space is against ALL building codes. I have known several folks who have had to stay in motels because their homes posed a serious health risk. In the case of these older homes, returns are to be either relocated to the interior, or totally ducted.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Sounds to me like a conditioned crawl space not a plenum. Last one I was in was nice could almost stand up, plastic sheeting on the ground, insulated etc... Yea I was spoiled running wires in there. Like the OP said probably done to keep mold from forming and might help on energy costs?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The chance of a crawlspace with vents in the walls from outside, a drain channel to earth around the perimiter, and exposed fiberglass in the bay spaces being used as a return plenum seem very rare. The inspector's a moron.


I don't disagree but this is what the op said...



Travis Latiolais said:


> I wired a house that was off the ground(no slab). I ran all my HR's under the house, because ther was no attic(none).I did not realize that the underneath of the house was one big plenum. All of the underneath perimitter is sealed off with cinder blocks. Inspector is the one that caught it, and said, I cant run wires in what is now a plenum. He rejected my inspection. Any one know the code reference, or a possible solution to problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks:confused1:


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> I don't disagree but this is what the op said...


I see what you're saying, Scott, but could it be that the op doesn't have a clear enough understanding of what plenum space is to be confident enough to call him on it? Evidently someone needs to be checking the standard building codes out along with the NEC, IMO.
:blink:


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## Travis Latiolais (Sep 16, 2011)

Hey guys, thanks for your response. Airhandling unit pushes air underneath house, which is sealed around perimitter with cinder blocks, and insulation (plenum). The air then comes up into occupied space through 6inch squares cut in floor (no duct). Inspector said to re- run wires in mc cable, but thats not in my resi bid. I am meeting with contractor next week, and will keep you all updated. On a side note, inspector said he only seen this once, and it was 12 years ago. I have been doing electrical work for 10 yrs, and never seen such a thing. I thought you couldnt use wood(floor joist) for a plenum! I am really trying to fight this one.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

This is the most ******** forced air system I have ever heard of.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> This is the most ******** forced air system I have ever heard of.


Yeah, that sounds like it has "health disaster" written all over it. Who even thought of such a thing?:blink:


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## Travis Latiolais (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes, just think about the dead rodent smell!!


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Travis Latiolais said:


> Hey guys, thanks for your response. Airhandling unit pushes air underneath house, which is sealed around perimitter with cinder blocks, and insulation (plenum). The air then comes up into occupied space through 6inch squares cut in floor (no duct). Inspector said to re- run wires in mc cable, but thats not in my resi bid. I am meeting with contractor next week, and will keep you all updated. On a side note, inspector said he only seen this once, and it was 12 years ago. I have been doing electrical work for 10 yrs, and never seen such a thing. I thought you couldnt use wood(floor joist) for a plenum! I am really trying to fight this one.


 
I have see it couple time but really IMO., C'est stupide to have downdraft air handler to use the crawlspace like that you never know what will happend if one of the drain pipe break now that I am talking about major stink there.

Only way you can get this allowed is use the pleuem rated cable or MC cable one of the two the plain jane NM cable is not legit.{ basically the same rules in commercal building with air handling space aka pleuem rated space } 

Merci,
Marc


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Peter D said:


> Yeah, that sounds like it has "health disaster" written all over it. Who even thought of such a thing?:blink:


Ain't that a fact! Why do they think we duct under a house? Guess mold and vermin don't spread disease? Down south here I could only imagine what it would cost to "seal" a crawl space to where it could be used in this way. Where are decent HVAC guys when you need them?
:blink::blink:


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

I have heard that, they completely seal off the crawl space and use it as supply air, the term was "plenwood". They cut holes in the floor for the air to come up through


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Just thinking: When they intentionally condition a crawl, do they put return vents in it? Because a conditioned crawl is much more common, and that would basically be the same thing.

-John


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Big John said:


> Just thinking: When they intentionally condition a crawl, do they put return vents in it? Because a conditioned crawl is much more common, and that would basically be the same thing.
> 
> -John


The ones I've seen didn't have a return in the crawl, just a supply.


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

Yup, has to been some sort of building code violation. That is sooooo wrong. 

I've seen this before in a bunch of houses on the Rez, but they were YEARS old and as soon as we came across them and pointed out what was going on, IHS had them all retrofitted with ducting.

Have the general contractor meet with the heating guy and inquire WTF is going on. Also, wondering if it's passed the mechanical and if the inspector caught this. You (or the general) could call them and ask.

Stirring the pot and making friends since 1987.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Travis Latiolais said:


> I wired a house that was off the ground(no slab). I ran all my HR's under the house, because ther was no attic(none).I did not realize that the underneath of the house was one big plenum. All of the underneath perimitter is sealed off with cinder blocks. Inspector is the one that caught it, and said, I cant run wires in what is now a plenum. He rejected my inspection. Any one know the code reference, or a possible solution to problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks:confused1:


There are no crawl space...open air plenums.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)




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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

It appears that the "good hvac guys" were the ones who designed and installed the system to city code way back when, the hvac system being very efficient.

Learn you something, you dumb ass electricians. :thumbup:
http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/TAD/education/ECEP/drafting/h/h.htm


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

Louisiana. You should have said so. Now I understand.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Roadhouse said:


> It appears that the "good hvac guys" were the ones who designed and installed the system to city code way back when, the hvac system being very efficient.
> 
> Learn you something, you dumb ass electricians. :thumbup:
> http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/TAD/education/ECEP/drafting/h/h.htm


I now know where you're coming from, but when I grew up in south LA, a crawl space was just that... At that time, the only reason you walled-up a crawl space was to keep out the critters! I didn't realize that this was being done in that part of the country.... So if you wanna sling crap, you can do at this dumbass half-Cajun and leave the others out of it... Wasn't trying to pick a fight-- just wanted to know why...
Have a good one....
- Jim


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm loving the new HVAC expert forum!! :laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Roadhouse said:


> It appears that the "good hvac guys" were the ones who designed and installed the system to city code way back when, the hvac system being very efficient.
> 
> Learn you something, you dumb ass electricians. :thumbup:
> http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/TAD/education/ECEP/drafting/h/h.htm


How do you have 1500 post on a forum where you don't belong? Go bang some tin or clean your minivan.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Roadhouse said:


> It appears that the "good hvac guys" were the ones who designed and installed the system to city code way back when, the hvac system being very efficient.
> 
> Learn you something, you dumb ass electricians. :thumbup:
> http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/TAD/education/ECEP/drafting/h/h.htm


Seriously, why this this guy allowed to be here? :ban: I know the mods are trying to clean this place up, but as long as Roadhouse is here, you can be accused of selective rule enforcement.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Seriously, why this this guy allowed to be here? :ban: I know the mods are trying to clean this place up, but as long as Roadhouse is here, you can be accused of selective rule enforcement.


He said he does Electrical work as well.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> He said he does Electrical work as well.


The few times he's posted about electrical work, he sounded pretty clueless. There's a reason he's in HVAC and not electrical right now.

I've run line sets in the past and worked on furnaces, should I go join an HVAC forum now because I've done a few HVAC tasks before? :no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> The few times he's posted about electrical work, he sounded pretty clueless. There's a reason he's in HVAC and not electrical right now.
> 
> I've run line sets in the past and worked on furnaces, should I go join an HVAC forum now because I've done a few HVAC tasks before? :no:


Well, it looks like you got your wish..

http://www.electriciantalk.com/members/roadhouse-15556/


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> The few times he's posted about electrical work, he sounded pretty clueless. There's a reason he's in HVAC and not electrical right now.
> 
> I've run line sets in the past and worked on furnaces, should I go join an HVAC forum now because I've done a few HVAC tasks before? :no:


Why don't you join up and see..:thumbsup:

Here is the link.http://www.hvacsite.com/


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Well, it looks like you got your wish..
> 
> http://www.electriciantalk.com/members/roadhouse-15556/


It's about time. :thumbsup:

Do you really expect he's going to be respected, even as a non-electrician, with comments like this?



Roadhouse said:


> Learn you something, you dumb ass electricians. :thumbup:
> http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/TAD/education/ECEP/drafting/h/h.htm


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Pete in fairness to him, there are some dumb ass electricians here. :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> It's about time. :thumbsup:
> 
> Do you really expect he's going to be respected, even as a non-electrician, with comments like this?


All of us make comments like that from time to time.

Because we are hot heads..

The company he works for is a combination HVAC and Electrical contractor so that makes him one of us..:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Pete in fairness to him, there are some dumb ass electricians here. :laughing:


True, but at least they are electricians. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The company he works for is a combination HVAC and Electrical contractor so that makes him one of us..:thumbsup:


Please stop defending him, it's making you look foolish.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Pete in fairness to him, there are some dumb ass electricians here. :laughing:


:whistling2::laughing::thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Please stop defending him, it's making you look foolish.


I'm vary happy defending someone who is being stomped on.

so if that makes me look like a fool then I'll wear that badge with honor.:thumbsup:


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

jmsmith said:


> I now know where you're coming from, but when I grew up in south LA, a crawl space was just that... At that time, the only reason you walled-up a crawl space was to keep out the critters! I didn't realize that this was being done in that part of the country.... So if you wanna sling crap, you can do at this dumbass half-Cajun and leave the others out of it... Wasn't trying to pick a fight-- just wanted to know why...
> Have a good one....
> - Jim


Hey fellas, wasn't trying to ruffle no feathers here... I just found out something I didn't realize about where I was brought-up at... Just still trying to wrap my head around how you can be called-out on running NM under a house for this reason and yet run your water and sewage lines thru the same area! Still looks like more of a health hazard than smoke hazard to me. Well, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
:laughing::laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Whether the mods decide to allow a HVAC guy on the forum should not be a concern of anyone else. To roadhouses credit he has offered some good incite on a/c and their problems in the past. 

Many of you are not completely innocent either. With the nasty comments that run rampant around here it is no wonder someone bites back occasionally. Please try and be respectful to other members. You don't like what they say then challenge them don't debase them. :thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

jmsmith said:


> Hey fellas, wasn't trying to ruffle no feathers here... I just found out something I didn't realize about where I was brought-up at... Just still trying to wrap my head around how you can be called-out on running NM under a house for this reason and yet run your water and sewage lines thru the same area! Still looks like more of a health hazard than smoke hazard to me. Well, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
> :laughing::laughing:


 
Water and sewer lines run through return air plenum ceilings all the time in buildings. But there are way too many other factors to use a crawlspace to pull air from in a normal home. Unless the block was completely insulated there would be condensation issues up rear and we all know condensation ends up causing mold.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

We did some remo work on a 25 year old house that had the crawl space as a plenum. Very bad idea. They had it converted to a ducted system when he added the addition. Wiring was all sleeved in conduit.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Whether the mods decide to allow a HVAC guy on the forum should not be a concern of anyone else. To roadhouses credit he has offered some good incite on a/c and their problems in the past.
> 
> Many of you are not completely innocent either. With the nasty comments that run rampant around here it is no wonder someone bites back occasionally. Please try and be respectful to other members. You don't like what they say then challenge them don't debase them. :thumbsup:


Yeah, I'm sick of it!!

:innocent:


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Whether the mods decide to allow a HVAC guy on the forum should not be a concern of anyone else. To roadhouses credit he has offered some good incite on a/c and their problems in the past.
> 
> Many of you are not completely innocent either. With the nasty comments that run rampant around here it is no wonder someone bites back occasionally. Please try and be respectful to other members. You don't like what they say then challenge them don't debase them. :thumbsup:


Dennis, in all fairness, I see that there are two posts missing from this thread. One in which Roadrunner was clueless that he was picking any fights and then one in which I told him it was all good, and that I was unaware of this practice and that time's were achangin'. I told him that I spent part of my life down there growing up, even joking about how our idea of AC was the knotholes and cracks in the old wood floors! I apologize if this got anyone else's panties in a wad! After all, I am fairly new to this group, and wish to remain so.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The company he works for is a combination HVAC and Electrical contractor so that makes him one of us..:thumbsup:


I disagree. Unless he is licensed in both. What his company is licensed for means nothing.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jmsmith said:


> I apologize if this got anyone else's panties in a wad! After all, I am fairly new to this group, and wish to remain so.


This really had nothing to do with you but thanks for your concern. :thumbsup:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I disagree. Unless he is licensed in both. What his company is licensed for means nothing.


That is not true. We have many members here who are not license but work for licensed people. If he is allowed to do his wiring for a/c units under his company then he has as much right to be here as anybody else.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Whether the mods decide to allow a HVAC guy on the forum should not be a concern of anyone else.


We are not children, we are allowed to think and have opinions of our own.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is not true. We have many members here who are not license but work for licensed people. If he is allowed to do his wiring for a/c units under his company then he has as much right to be here as anybody else.


There are many company's out there that are plumbing, hvac, and electrical. We gonna let plumbers in here too?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> There are many company's out there that are plumbing, hvac, and electrical. We gonna let plumbers in here too?


If they have an electrical license I see no reason not to.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If they have an electrical license I see no reason not to.


All I can say is wow.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> We are not children, we are allowed to think and have opinions of our own.


You can have your opinion but it is not your decision. Roll your eyes all you want just stop telling us how to run the show.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I disagree. Unless he is licensed in both. What his company is licensed for means nothing.


We have apprentice Electricians here and Electricians that work in states that no license is required and some work for combination Electrical Plumbing and or HVAC are you saying all those guys should not be allowed here? :blink:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> We have apprentice Electricians here and Electricians that work in states that no license is required and some work for combination Electrical Plumbing and or HVAC are you saying all those guys should not be allowed here? :blink:


 
Electrical apprentices, yes they're fine. 

Plumbers working for combo companies. NOOOOOOOOO

Hvac guys working for combo companies NOOOOOOOOOOOO


This place is SUPPOSED to be for electrical professionals. I'm sorry you and Dennis don't feel that way.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Electrical apprentices, yes they're fine.
> 
> Plumbers working for combo companies. NOOOOOOOOO
> 
> ...


All I'm saying is that roadhouse does do Electrical work and has posted pictures in past posts.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> All I'm saying is that roadhouse does do Electrical work


So do DIYs, that does not make them electricians.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Electrical apprentices, yes they're fine.
> 
> Plumbers working for combo companies. NOOOOOOOOO
> 
> ...


Jerry, all the mods know of Roadhouse's qualifications. Obviously no one felt the need to not allow him. If someone wants to better themselves in the trade then why not help them. He offered members some good info on hvac stuff and apparently his company does electrical work. Because they do HVAC also we should not allow them??? I don't get it.

We are here to better the trade- he is in the trade.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> So do DIYs, that does not make them electricians.


 
I agree 100% and I think this post proves that even roadhouse himself would agree that he doesn't belong here:



by Roadhouse:
Learn you something, you dumb ass electricians.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> So do DIYs, that does not make them electricians.


He said his company does Electrical work as well ,.

I'm comfortable with the mans word.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I agree 100% and I think this post proves that even roadhouse himself would agree that he doesn't belong here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read that as just joking around and nothing else...Suck it up already.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

We have a large "highly respected" HVAC company in upstate NY. I have had sevice calls to fix stuff and found(12/2) for a 12/3 AC condensor. Generators they installed not working ect. NY has localized licensing so all kinds of cxxp out there...Some HVAC guys are sharp some ....oh boy...but that plenum thing...no issues with radon????????


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Suppose my company (ME) decides to get my HVAC license, am I now no longer allowed here? Maybe I mow lawns when times are slow... I just don't get what the issue is. The issue may be with this particular member but that is a different issue altogether.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Suppose my company (ME) decides to get my HVAC license, am I now no longer allowed here? Maybe I mow lawns when times are slow... I just don't get what the issue is. The issue may be with this particular member but that is a different issue altogether.


 
You would still be allowed here. The guys you hire to do the HVAC stuff should not be.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You would still be allowed here. The guys you hire to do the HVAC stuff should not be.


Even if he does the wiring for the HVAC stuff under my supervision?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Even if he does the wiring for the HVAC stuff under my supervision?


 
Can't I just be a jerk without it making logical sense?:laughing:





































I see your point:thumbup:


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I'm for letting whomever does electrical work in; I think you guys are really getting uptight about nothing. When you feel your panties twistin up, just spend some time over on MH till they relax again. It would be nice, though, if they changed the spiel when they close DIY threads to something more realistic like:

"ElectricianTalk.com is designed for electrical industry professionals, tin knockers who moonlight as electricians, sewer rats, boatswains mates, terd jockeys, and any other part-time wanna-be electrician hacks to discuss issues and topics related to the electrical trades and related industries.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I thought this was a subset forum of ContractorTalk. com "which is the place to go" when you need electrical advice from drywallers, painters, roofers, and plumbers. :thumbsup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You can have your opinion but it is not your decision. Roll your eyes all you want just stop telling us how to run the show.


You used to be one of us. Now you look down at us from your throne. :notworthy:


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Electrical apprentices, yes they're fine.
> 
> Plumbers working for combo companies. NOOOOOOOOO
> 
> ...



Every plumbing and hvac company here has one guy with a state licence. He permits the work for the company and the unlicensed do the work. I've never seen the guy with a license on the job.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I'm for letting whomever does electrical work in; I think you guys are really getting uptight about nothing. When you feel your panties twistin up, just spend some time over on MH till they relax again. It would be nice, though, if they changed the spiel when they close DIY threads to something more realistic like:
> 
> "ElectricianTalk.com is designed for electrical industry professionals, tin knockers who moonlight as electricians, sewer rats, boatswains mates, terd jockeys, and any other part-time wanna-be electrician hacks to discuss issues and topics related to the electrical trades and related industries.


Roadhouse had been around for a while, and nobody ever picked on him until he started asking for it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> You used to be one of us. Now you look down at us from your throne. :notworthy:


Let's get it straight. I was never one of you... thanks. I looked down at these comments before I was mod. Go back and do your homework and you will see. I am sure I was not perfect nor am I now but some of you guys go over the line all the time.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Even if he does the wiring for the HVAC stuff under my supervision?



Problem is I have never seen any supervision going on. It may be and I don't see it but I do't think so. I saw a #2 SE cable ran to a 10kw heat strip yesterday. Maybe it was left over from another job and they used it maybe they were clueless? :laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Let's get it straight. I was never one of you... thanks. I looked down at these comments before I was mod. Go back and do your homework and you will see. I am sure I was not perfect nor am I now but some of you guys go over the line all the time.


Bingo! It was sarcasm. Pretty obvious you were never one of us, never will be. :no:

JMO


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Bingo! It was sarcasm. Pretty obvious you were never one of us, never will be. :no:
> 
> JMO


Wow, I think I will lose sleep because Scott doesn't like me. Scott I could care less about being one of the boys. I just want this place to be an electrical forum without all the animosity. Grow up.

And if being one of the boys means I have to talk down to members like you do then I will never be interested.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> Bingo! It was sarcasm. Pretty obvious you were never one of us, never will be. :no:
> 
> JMO


What Dennis is IMO is a guy who has studied hard to learn the NEC and is willing to help anyone out with code questions. Sure he can be too serious at times but we all can be out of line more often. I would hate to be a mod. Oh yea Dennis you suck! :jester: 

Maybe Nathan told the mods to try to keep this place clean. We have a tendency to dirty it up real fast. Cut the mods some slack.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Wow, I think I will lose sleep because Scott doesn't like me. Scott I could care less about being one of the boys. I just want this place to be an electrical forum without all the animosity. Grow up.
> 
> And if being one of the boys means I have to talk down to members like you do then I will never be interested.


Ok dad. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Ok dad. :laughing:


Scott.. does that make you feel better.. :no::no::no:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Ok dad. :laughing:


Good night john boy


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> Scott.. does that make you feel better.. :no::no::no:


No, but I do feel better now that you're here.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> No, but I do feel better now that you're here.


And why is that.. seems there is a cheap shot just waiting to come out..


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> And why is that.. seems there is a cheap shot just waiting to come out..


:wacko:


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I thought this was a subset forum of ContractorTalk. com "which is the place to go" when you need electrical advice from drywallers, painters, roofers, and plumbers. :thumbsup:


Ain't that the truth


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## milk man (Aug 25, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Roadhouse had been around for a while, and nobody ever picked on him until he started asking for it.


Roadhouse has been banned from the most popular HVAC forums. Preston does not play well with others. We, the HVAC community, do not claim him as our own. I think very little of his skills as well does most others.

Roadhouse brings his own problems onto his self.

I'm a HVAC professional. I've done more wiring than I wish to claim. Reason being I've done it wrong and only learned after visiting boards like these. I appreciate being here.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Let's get it straight. I was never one of you... thanks. I looked down at these comments before I was mod. Go back and do your homework and you will see. I am sure I was not perfect nor am I now but some of you guys go over the line all the time.


Wow, I had not seen this one.


We are not worthy to be in the presence of such righteousness.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

milk man said:


> Roadhouse has been banned from the most popular HVAC forums. Preston does not play well with others. We, the HVAC community, do not claim him as our own. I think very little of his skills as well does most others.
> 
> Roadhouse brings his own problems onto his self.
> 
> I'm a HVAC professional. I've done more wiring than I wish to claim. Reason being I've done it wrong and only learned after visiting boards like these. I appreciate being here.


Thanks dude, I appreciate that



BBQ said:


> Wow, I had not seen this one.
> 
> 
> We are not worthy to be in the presence of such righteousness.


I've just started praying in his general direction.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Wow, I had not seen this one.
> 
> 
> We are not worthy to be in the presence of such righteousness.


Gee that's great BBQ, You have got to slam the man for a statement he made over a month ago in the heat of the moment because he is trying to Moderate a thread.

In My opinion that is a hit below the belt and uncalled for "a month after the fact",Really?


You are a better man than that, and should have considered the amount of time that has passed since he made that post "In the heat of the moment"

If you had made that post a month ago then fine it would have been in the heat of the moment.

But to slam him a month later because a newbee brought the thread back from the grave That is just low and you are a better man than that.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Gee that's great BBQ, You have got to slam the man for a statement he made over a month ago in the heat of the moment because he is trying to Moderate a thread.
> 
> In My opinion that is a hit below the belt and uncalled for "a month after the fact",Really?
> 
> ...


Well, like a lot of things we disagree here.

EDIT
I will tell you I did not look at the date before responding, I read it and was POed about it so I reacted.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*U*

They need to create an UNDO button. Is that possible??


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Well, like a lot of things we disagree here.
> 
> EDIT
> I will tell you I did not look at the date before responding, I read it and was POed about it so I reacted.


I forgive you.....:thumbsup:


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Cletis said:


> They need to create an UNDO button. Is that possible??


Delete your entire post, then just add 4 dots.:thumbup:

Had to do that one time when "unsureness" set in.:laughing:

Anyway, is this the plenum thread?

What's the update, OP?


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## nyelec (Apr 1, 2011)

*plenum*

If the inspector is correct of his interpretation of a plenum then you will have to replace all the wire or get the plenum reclassified


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

UPDATE ON THIS.... Check-out Article 300.22 (C).... There is an exception, see if it will fly in your situation:
"Exception: This section shall not apply to the joist or stud spaces of dwelling units where the wiring passes through such spaces perpendicular to the long dimension of such spaces." I noticed this in 2002 NEC, and it is still in the 2011 NEC. Hope this helps....


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Would it be easier to box in the NMs.?


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

leland said:


> Would it be easier to box in the NMs.?


It all is up to his AHJ... I still would see about that exception, though. That is why I brought it back up. However, if they did allow block-in, that would depend a lot on how close his runs are together. The exception that I see to this exception is that the runs would have to be continuous, no splices or boxes of any kind in that area.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

jmsmith said:


> UPDATE ON THIS.... Check-out Article 300.22 (C).... There is an exception, see if it will fly in your situation:
> "Exception: This section shall not apply to the joist or stud spaces of dwelling units where the wiring passes through such spaces perpendicular to the long dimension of such spaces." I noticed this in 2002 NEC, and it is still in the 2011 NEC. Hope this helps....


Third post in the thread.  :thumbup:

But really, I don't think it applies to the original situation. 



3xdad said:


> Travis, check out the exception to 300.22(C) in the 2011 Handbook.
> 
> i call BS on the inspector. It's resi, and even if the space is used for return air, you can still wire it.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Third post in the thread.  :thumbup:
> 
> But really, I don't think it applies to the original situation.


 
I don't either. Not even close.


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I don't either. Not even close.


Oh well, was just a thought... Missed it the first time, this thread got so out of control. I just know that this was what I happened on and the Handbook also had an illustration in it which looked a lot like the OP had described. Guess I'll shut-up now!
:laughing: Have a good un... What's left of it anyway!


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