# Working space violation, etc.



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I hate to see new work with code violations. It gripes me even more to have other trades cause my compliant work to be in violation. Below is a picture of a service I built, only to have the HVAC man come in later years and put units right smack in the working space of the metering equipment. You can also barely make out the exposed bright orange #10 NM cable going to the handyman added AC disco on the right.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

That whole thing is just criminal.


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## 3phase (Jan 16, 2007)

At times I have considered having HVAC guys drawn and quartered, but people tell me that is a little harsh.


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## K&R (Jan 22, 2007)

Would it be wrong to report him for the violations? I been contemplating this question alot myself. I was brought up never to be a "rat" but as I am getting older the term dosent mean as much.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

K&R said:


> Would it be wrong to report him for the violations? I been contemplating this question alot myself. I was brought up never to be a "rat" but as I am getting older the term dosent mean as much.


I don't know. I struggle with the same question. Legally, no it wouldn't be wrong. Morally... that's another issuse. Pride plays into it a lot, I guess. As long as there's plenty of work for me, I'm not going to put up a fuss. Word gets out. If I ever have to scrap for work at some point in the future, I might be one mean dude in that regard. If I was out of work, I would not be beyond following people who just bought rolls of romex at home depot to see what they're doing with it. At the moment, I'm plenty busy, so I'll leave enforcement to somebody else. There have been two instances in the past in which the work being done or recently completed was so blatently and immediately hazardous that I fell compelled to turn it in. I guess we all have a line someplace in our head that shouldn't be crossed.

By the way, nice to have you here Ken.


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## K&R (Jan 22, 2007)

Thank's MD Im glad to be on here. I have read dozens of your posts and I asked you dozens of questions and have to say that in my time online or in the field you are one of the most knowledgeable electricians I have had the pleasure of talking to.

I guess where I am located at has alot to do with my question. I have seen some of the worst work done since relocating here 6 years ago then in my entire life. I would bet I could come up with 8-10 pics of code violations on every service call I go on or send my guys on. Some serious and some not so serious. I have seen unlicensed home improvment people do whole kitchens with 14-2 and not a single GFCI. I have watched licensed GC's (most respected GC's in the area)make flying splices in crawl spaces next to the shower drains to add a switch. I know of 1 licensed electrician that installs 1 feeder to a rooms center light (octagon box) and then does what I call (spider webs) out of that to power every thing in the entire room. We only have 1 inspector to cover the entire 622 sq. miles of our county. I have a problem turning them in. I guess as you say it's a moral issue. At the same time sooner or later someone will burn and die in one of these areas.


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## lbwireman (Jan 22, 2007)

Marc, is that Seal Tite I see exiting the bottom of those 2 meter bases?


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## lbwireman (Jan 22, 2007)

A little. Traditionally, they hung 'em 'bout halfway dead first. Then drew 'em an' quartered 'em.
Se


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Whats trully annoying is that it wasn't nessasary at all to block the meters! Place that unit "in front of" the other, both facing to the right for access, and its golden.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

lbwireman said:


> Marc, is that Seal Tite I see exiting the bottom of those 2 meter bases?


What you're looking at there is 4/0 aluminium SE cable. It is traditional to do services in my area is SE cable, and PVC or RMC is an upsell. SE cable exposed is not considered "exposed to physical damage" by the inspection agency unless it's located right along a sidewalk, alleyway, parking lot, or similar.


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## Pierre Belarge (Feb 3, 2007)

*Yes, lets someone know*

Construction has grown in a furious pace in the last 2 decades or so. With that, there are many new installers/companies. There are also too many of them who are not aware of, or do not care of the requirements. As a contractor, you may be torn between "snitching" or keeping a contact with the customer. The way around this is to contact your inspector and let him/her deal with this. 

As an inspector, what I have started doing in the last 6 months to combat this very issue is during the rough inspection, I contact the builder. I explain to him what the parameters of the location issues are and let him duke it out with the electrician and the HVAC guy. So far that seems to work pretty well.


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## TheElectricalGuru (Jan 16, 2007)

No Comment............

PS. Not directed at you Marc...I was gonna tease ya about supports on the SE Cable and SOMEONE took upon themselves to remove my post..SO I dont generally chat on overly controlled boards so....Enjoy and Best of LUCK !


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

TheElectricalGuru said:


> ..I was gonna tease ya about supports on the SE Cable


Those straps are "upside down", in my opinion also. I always put the screw below the cable or conduit, as I feel it makes for a more secure and longer lived install. I didn't install those straps personally. I was in the basement when they were being bolted on. It wasn't worth ordering it to be re-done differently, in my opinion. Doing odds and ends, like installing anchors and straps is a good thing for a helper to do. My oldest son, on that particular summer day. For SE cable risers, I've had guys alternate each strap to every-other side of the cable on the way up. I understand why this is done sometimes, but it looks "busy" to me, and I don't do it myself. I really don't hold it against a guy who does.


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## TheElectricalGuru (Jan 16, 2007)

lol..no my teasing was about having them supported at least 12" from the meter enclosure...lol...anyway was only teasing ya but someone obviously took it as more than that...lol....that photo has been edited since...lol...so ignore the teasing..


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## Joe Momma (Jan 23, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> Whats trully annoying is that it wasn't nessasary at all to block the meters! Place that unit "in front of" the other, both facing to the right for access, and its golden.


The morons wouldn't have blocked the window that way either


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## sckeeth (Feb 11, 2007)

"I know of 1 licensed electrician that installs 1 feeder to a rooms center light (octagon box) and then does what I call (spider webs) out of that to power every thing in the entire room"


What's wrong with that.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

sckeeth said:


> "I know of 1 licensed electrician that installs 1 feeder to a rooms center light (octagon box) and then does what I call (spider webs) out of that to power every thing in the entire room"
> 
> 
> What's wrong with that.


Nothing, as long as the box fill rules are observed. That is an older style of wiring, mostly done in the 60's and 70's. Not normally practiced today, but nothing wrong with it as long as you mind your box fill rules. When rooms are wired in EMT, it's still a normal method.

Not sure how this applies to this thread, though.


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