# Bonded Generator & Interlock Kit



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

You can't bond at two places.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

And if it is what will happen???


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Your neutral current will split and run down both the neutral and ground based on their resistance.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

ya i know that but doing what energizing the generator frame??? Blowing up electronics??


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

What does your electrician say you should do?


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

he cant see an issue because the 2 hots from the utility are off and locked by the interlock kit. I just keep reading everything. and there are lots of people that use portable generators with interlock kits with now problem and 99% of all generators are bonded. so i dont know what to think I just want to know will it still works and what will happpen if not


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

It's fine, there is no issue.

This is no different than when some PoCos makes us bond both neutral and the GEC to the meter pan (it's bonded again inside the main panel). It's no different than when you use a metallic nipple between the meter pan and the main panel (since the neutral is bonded to the meter pan). 

Bonding the neutral to ground in a sub panel that is fed from a main panel that other branch circuits are coming out of is where you can have issues on the circuits that come out of the main.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

So using a generator to back up power my home with a BONDED NEUTRAL will work and not cause any issues even thought I will have 2 NEUTRAL hooked up and making a LOOP becouase the neutral is hook to the ground on the generator


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

I also I read somewhere by hooking up that way the problem is that the voltage that comes back on the neutral will go over to the ground that is what it will not pass code. Now first what are the MAJOR issues with this and second would on the cord I use to feed my generator to my house if i just disconnect the ground wire and only use 3 wires work. Wouldn't all my GFCI plugs in my home still work as on utility power and also everything in my home would still be grounded through my panel. and my generator would still be grounded as always the only thing that would not be grounded would be the generator cord RIGHT. and any voltage trying to loop back would be stopped at the cord


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

..................


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Your questions has been answered.


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

See post #43 for a good explanation of the potential danger.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=143277&page=5


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

CraigV said:


> See post #43 for a good explanation of the potential danger.
> 
> http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=143277&page=5


That whole thing about having 2 faults at once really doesn't matter since in many, if not most, electrical installations you already have neutral bonded to ground in multiple places. 

As I stated earlier, when you switch over the interlock you are replacing the meter pan neutral-ground bond with the generator neutral-ground bond.


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> That whole thing about having 2 faults at once really doesn't matter since in many, if not most, electrical installations you already have neutral bonded to ground in multiple places.
> 
> As I stated earlier, when you switch over the interlock you are replacing the meter pan neutral-ground bond with the generator neutral-ground bond.


First, to be clear I posted the explanation to give the OP what he's asking for. The conditions to create the fault are a long-shot, but anyone who's ever been involved in accident investigation knows that most accidents are typically caused by at least two failures.

I don't agree with your assertion that *most* installations have neutral bonded to ground in multiple places. At least they shouldn't. A service begins at the Service Equipment, which has the disconnect and the neutral/ground bond. Anything after Service Equipment is defined as Equipment and should have an equipment ground, no neutral connection.


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

CraigV said:


> I don't agree with your assertion that *most* installations have neutral bonded to ground in multiple places. At least they shouldn't.


 I disagree. Have you ever installed a service? Have you ever looked inside a meter pan? Have you ever read PoCo requirements?



> A service begins at the Service Equipment, which has the disconnect and the neutral/ground bond.


 Again, I disagree. Have you ever installed a service? Did the riser and meter pan magically appear or did you install that too?



> Anything after Service Equipment is defined as Equipment and should have an equipment ground, no neutral connection.


You can argue semantics all day, it will not change anything. If you want to include the meter pan into your definition of a service it makes no difference since a generator would also not be included in the definition. 

For the last time, a generator with a N-G bond is no different than a meter pan with a N-G bond. The exact same level of danger, which I think is low enough to call "safe".


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> I disagree. Have you ever installed a service? Have you ever looked inside a meter pan? Have you ever read PoCo requirements?
> 
> Again, I disagree. Have you ever installed a service? Did the riser and meter pan magically appear or did you install that too?
> 
> ...


I said the risk of having the specific two faults was a long shot. I guess you've actively chosen to ignore that so you can keep disagreeing with me.

The definition of a service, and where the NGB point is, isn't mine, and certainly isn't a matter of semantics. It's NEC's.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Regardless of what others have said, it is a violation and you should avoid an installation like this at all costs. 
Remove the N-G bond at the generator


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

walkerj said:


> Regardless of what others have said, it is a violation and you should avoid an installation like this at all costs.
> Remove the N-G bond at the generator


It's a violation of what, exactly? And why is the homeowner bound by whatever it is that is saying they are doing something incorrect? And who could possibly do something about it to enforce this violation?


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

CraigV said:


> I said the risk of having the specific two faults was a long shot. I guess you've actively chosen to ignore that so you can keep disagreeing with me.
> 
> The definition of a service, and where the NGB point is, isn't mine, and certainly isn't a matter of semantics. It's NEC's.


Good, like usual you ignored the facts and went off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic.

The facts of the matter are that a generator with N-G bond is no different than the meter pan with N-G bond. The fact that I have said that 3-4 times already and you still ignore it shows that you are just looking to argue.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

This is all I was getting at this is off of gen-tran website


> If the neutral bond cannot be removed (as is the case with Generac and Cummins), you can lift the ground wire coming from the generator inside the transfer switch, and secure it with a wire nut, by itself. This eliminates the nuisance tripping, BUT this installation will no longer be NEC compliant.


 so the generator is still grounded to code and I would just lift the ground on the gen cord and leave the transfer switch alone so the home would all be to code also so the only thing not to code would be the 10' gen cord


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

And by having no ground on gen cord the will be no loop and to me sounds safe for the 1 time a year I might use it as long as I keep the cord on good working order


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Dexter82 said:


> This is all I was getting at this is off of gen-tran website
> so the generator is still grounded to code and I would just lift the ground on the gen cord and leave the transfer switch alone so the home would all be to code also so the only thing not to code would be the 10' gen cord


There's simply no reason to do this, no good can come of it, only bad.



Dexter82 said:


> And by having no ground on gen cord the will be no loop and to me sounds safe for the 1 time a year I might use it as long as I keep the cord on good working order


It's not safe for when you or someone else connects a generator that has the N-G bond lifted.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

No no the generator stays the same THE GENERATOR CORD THAT CONNECT FROM THE GEN TO THE HOUSE will has now ground only 2 hots and a nuretal


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Dexter82 said:


> No no the generator stays the same THE GENERATOR CORD THAT CONNECT FROM THE GEN TO THE HOUSE will has now ground only 2 hots and a nuretal


Yes, I understand that.

Read my above post.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

Well that want do u mean the n g bond is still on the generator and n g bond is still all to code on the house end and the ground on the 10' gen cord is not hooked up stoping the 2 n g bonds


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Dexter82 said:


> Well that want do u mean the n g bond is still on the generator and n g bond is still all to code on the house end and the ground on the 10' gen cord is not hooked up stoping the 2 n g bonds


I really don't know what this means.

You've got all the information that you need. 

Disconnecting the ground from the cord could be dangerous, don't do it. Just connect the generator, it's as safe as your house is right now.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

Disconnecting the Ground not the neutral


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

So after all this discussion what would all of you do if you had no other choice. This would only be done in an long term power outage. Interlock installed on panel , B&S generator with a bonded neutral, so to stop the 2 bonds on the generator and the home panel. Would I just hook it up as the likely hood of having a fault is very small, our would I make a generator cord and just use the 2 hots and the neutral and LEAVE THR GROUND WIRE UNHOOKED. That way stoping the loop and the generator is still stock and the home wiring is still all hooked up to code. The only not to code thing here is the generator supply cable that has no ground. But the cable would be keep in good working order


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

walkerj said:


> Regardless of what others have said, it is a violation and you should avoid an installation like this at all costs.
> Remove the N-G bond at the generator





Cherry Hill Bill said:


> It's a violation of what, exactly? And why is the homeowner bound by whatever it is that is saying they are doing something incorrect? And who could possibly do something about it to enforce this violation?


250.24(a)(5)

If the neutral isn't switched by the transfer switch, then the generator is not a separately derived system, and the only permitted NGB is at the Service Equipment.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

If it troubles you that much and its your own personal unit, not a customers, remove the bond at the generator and be done with it. Its really only an issue when used at jobsites, then its possibly mandatory that the ng bond is there. Do it in a manner that you can replace it if need be. Otherwise, get a neutral switched panel such as Reliance's xpanel series. Its about all I use now for portable installations unless I am working with a Honda with no neutral bond. Or invest in a different model without a neutral bond. Leave the bond in the house wiring where it is.


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## Dexter82 (Jan 22, 2013)

I never said anything a out touching thr house bond all I said was not to use the ground wire in the generator supply cable. ThAt way the bond stays on the generator and the house and by not using the ground wire on the supply cable(the cable that goes from generator to house) it will break the loop of having 2 bond in the generator and home panel


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I miss the interlocks, so much easier to install, so much versatility.


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