# Some parallel 250s with high leg



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Yes, black, orange, blue looks odd but it's pretty much a sure-fire indication of a high-leg system.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Yes, PSE&G here in NJ requires orange be used for the high leg on a 240 delta system; nowhere else. We can't use it on any other system. The 480 service I am designing now will be brown, black and yellow in all of the equipment that they have control of and "B" phase will be marked orange in the rest our of the equipment. I will verify it with them before installing just in case their wiring inspector will have a problem with that. We will have a three phase 480 volt systems, three phase 208/120 volt systems, three phase 240/120 volt systems and single phase 240/120 volt systems on the site.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

SteveBayshore said:


> Yes, PSE&G here in NJ requires orange be used for the high leg on a 240 delta system; nowhere else. We can't use it on any other system. The 480 service I am designing now will be brown, black and yellow in all of the equipment that they have control of and "B" phase will be marked orange in the rest our of the equipment. I will verify it with them before installing just in case their wiring inspector will have a problem with that. We will have a three phase 480 volt systems, three phase 208/120 volt systems, three phase 240/120 volt systems and single phase 240/120 volt systems on the site.


I've seen 480 as brown, purple and yellow in a case like this.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> We typically intercept service laterals.
> This one was so tight we used a junction box to change the conduit direction.
> I thought the colors looked interesting.
> View attachment 157656


Sorry but it just irks me. 

Here you got black, red, blue or brown, orange, yellow and that's it.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

SteveBayshore said:


> Yes, PSE&G here in NJ requires orange be used for the high leg on a 240 delta system; nowhere else. We can't use it on any other system. The 480 service I am designing now will be brown, black and yellow in all of the equipment that they have control of and "B" phase will be marked orange in the rest our of the equipment. I will verify it with them before installing just in case their wiring inspector will have a problem with that. We will have a three phase 480 volt systems, three phase 208/120 volt systems, three phase 240/120 volt systems and single phase 240/120 volt systems on the site.


Why would you design a service like that?


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

The largest electric utilitiy used to have the high leg in the middle then on the right side then back in the middle. I have not done a delta serivce in so long I would have to call them so I did not have to do it over. Usually we just skip over 240 delta 3 phase and go to 480.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

SteveBayshore said:


> Yes, PSE&G here in NJ requires orange be used for the high leg on a 240 delta system; nowhere else. We can't use it on any other system. The 480 service I am designing now will be brown, black and yellow in all of the equipment that they have control of and "B" phase will be marked orange in the rest our of the equipment. I will verify it with them before installing just in case their wiring inspector will have a problem with that. We will have a three phase 480 volt systems, three phase 208/120 volt systems, three phase 240/120 volt systems and single phase 240/120 volt systems on the site.


We have both Brown/Orange/Yellow and Brown/Purple/Yellow for 277/480.
Some campus type buildings will have both color schemes depending on the era they were built or the jurisdiction the electricians are out of.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

We're doing a project that has an 240 delta since the original build was in the 80's. We try and use orange wire but if not orange tape on blacks. Deltas are still sorta common out here at smaller plants.

I like the carflex glued and taped into the PVC too 



.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

VELOCI3 said:


> Why would you design a service like that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Great question.The site has been under development and design for the past year. Equipment has already ordered. The site will only have one service. I was asked to get involved by the owners and engineers four weeks ago, a little too late. I've been working for this customer for 40+ years. There will be a new asphalt production plant, already ordered but loads not finalized yet. My preliminary load calculation requires a 2500 amp service just for the plant. There will be four pre-manufactured buildings, already in production. Each one has a 120/240 volt single phase service including a packaged 240 volt single phase heat pump. Each one will be sitting up on top of a block foundation building. I am planning on one 480 volt feeder and panel board in each block building. To keep the loads kind of balanced, I will install a 480x120/208 transformer and panel board in each block building for the loads not including the pre-manufactured upstairs. I will install 480x120/240 single phase transformers and disconnects to feed the pre-manufactured sections of the buildings. Each block building will contain 480, 208, and 120 volt equipment.
I have also done a few manufacturing buildings in the past that required 480, 277, 240, 208 and 120 volt loads. Seems pretty common to me?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

SteveBayshore said:


> Great question.The site has been under development and design for the past year. Equipment has already ordered. The site will only have one service. I was asked to get involved by the owners and engineers four weeks ago, a little too late. I've been working for this customer for 40+ years. There will be a new asphalt production plant, already ordered but loads not finalized yet. My preliminary load calculation requires a 2500 amp service just for the plant. There will be four pre-manufactured buildings, already in production. Each one has a 120/240 volt single phase service including a packaged 240 volt single phase heat pump. Each one will be sitting up on top of a block foundation building. I am planning on one 480 volt feeder and panel board in each block building. To keep the loads kind of balanced, I will install a 480x120/208 transformer and panel board in each block building for the loads not including the pre-manufactured upstairs. I will install 480x120/240 single phase transformers and disconnects to feed the pre-manufactured sections of the buildings. Each block building will contain 480, 208, and 120 volt equipment.
> I have also done a few manufacturing buildings in the past that required 480, 277, 240, 208 and 120 volt loads. Seems pretty common to me?


I think the concern is using Black as a color with 480. We never see that here. Ever.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> I like the carflex glued and taped into the PVC too
> 
> 
> 
> .


I should have cropped that pic a little better. lol.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> I think the concern is using Black as a color with 480. We never see that here. Ever.


Last company I worked at had bought out a competitor and 4 of the plants were 480 delta colored Black Red Blue. And they were all floating deltas, no ground lights either.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

My question would be if the utility can supply you 480 WYE, wouldn’t that simplify distribution both in wiring and equipment? 


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

VELOCI3 said:


> My question would be if the utility can supply you 480 WYE, wouldn’t that simplify distribution both in wiring and equipment?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Last 3 lift stations have all been high leg 3 phase and the one under construction is the same. 
We questioned the bill as it showed them running 600' of high voltage under ground (we install conduit) and the installation of 2 transformers for $275. We asked if 4 wire 3Y was a option and they said it would be in the ball park of 30k-60k. 
Take what you are given for the a service hook up cost or request what you want and pay full ticket.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

SteveBayshore said:


> Yes, PSE&G here in NJ requires orange be used for the high leg on a 240 delta system; nowhere else. We can't use it on any other system. The 480 service I am designing now will be brown, black and yellow in all of the equipment that they have control of and "B" phase will be marked orange in the rest our of the equipment. I will verify it with them before installing just in case their wiring inspector will have a problem with that. We will have a three phase 480 volt systems, three phase 208/120 volt systems, three phase 240/120 volt systems and single phase 240/120 volt systems on the site.



That sounds like a European set-up that was designed for color blind electricians.

Black/brown/grey (grey is already used so i guess they selected yellow instead).


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Took a Master's License prep course years ago, and you have to look at not only the NEC codes but City and State codes.
At the time I was taking the course, the City Electrical Board interpreted the NEC code to state the color orange would be used EXCLUSIVELY for the high-leg of a delta 120/240 system (their interpretation).
Since the color orange was EXCLUSIVELY (again their interpretation) for the high-leg delta 120/240, the "B" phase of a 480 volt system had to have a different color other than orange.
The City Electrical Board chose Purple.
So we ended up with:

120/240 single phase = Black, Red, White
120/208 wye 3 Phase = Black, Red, Blue, White
120/240 high-leg delta 3 Phase = Black, Orange, Blue, White
277/480 wye 3 Phase = Brown, Purple, Yellow, Grey
480 delta 3 Phase = Brown, Purple, Yellow

They all use Green for the grounding wire.

At that time the NEC stated the high-leg shall be orange, but it did not state orange cannot be used elsewhere.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> I should have cropped that pic a little better. lol.


Lol I'd rather glue carflex into a bell end over use some of the "fittings" they give us at the SH.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

wiz1997 said:


> Took a Master's License prep course years ago, and you have to look at not only the NEC codes but City and State codes.
> At the time I was taking the course, the City Electrical Board interpreted the NEC code to state the color orange would be used EXCLUSIVELY for the high-leg of a delta 120/240 system (their interpretation).
> Since the color orange was EXCLUSIVELY (again their interpretation) for the high-leg delta 120/240, the "B" phase of a 480 volt system had to have a different color other than orange.
> The City Electrical Board chose Purple.
> ...


Unless that last one was/is a floating Delta, one of those should be white as it's a grounded phase conductor in a grounded B.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Lol I'd rather glue carflex into a bell end over use some of the "fittings" they give us at the SH.


We were in a bit of a hurry up situation. Not only was the building down but, our grunt was leaving early and the sun was fast approaching. 100 plus degree heat index.
One of the guys wanted to use a hotbox and use PVC all of the way.
I know the fittings were not proper but, I have cemented plenty of car flex into PVC couplings. It you don’t move it and give it time to set up, it works pretty good. The duct tape was, uh, people like duct tape. Me I would have used tie wire but, I don’t get into ditches and work much these days.
The wire pulled in very easy, mostly pushed.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

No UG is complete without the duct tape and tie wire.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

460 Delta said:


> Unless that last one was/is a floating Delta, one of those should be white as it's a grounded phase conductor in a grounded B.


Ungounded delta or floating as you call it.
A very common setup out in the refineries, back in the day.
Don't know if they still use that system.


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