# Solar ROI



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

My 'beef' with PV: it needs to be installed where local conditions are IDEAL.

That means, pretty much, New Mexico.

Ideal weather, ideal climate... a Davis Bacon install. ( TVA, BPA scale projects )

Roof top PV is a sci-fi fantasy.

Too many roof falls.

Too many roof leaks.

Economically, PV power 'blew up Europe.'

{ It bankrupted Spain... and put a huge hole in Germany's finances. }

{ The Spanish government contracted for PV power -- at $0.58 per kWHr. (!!!!!)

{Wholesale.}

This bleeding brought down the government, and the nation.

Don Quixote, indeed.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

One huge ROI factor is what local poco's grant $KWH net metering. 

IIRC, legislation passed some 40 yrs ago stating they _had to buy back_, yet set no %.....

~CS~


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Web search produced this:

*What Is the Lifespan of a Solar Panel? Photovoltaic (PV) modules typically come with 20 year warranties that guarantee that the panels will produce at least 80% of the rated power after 20 years of use. The general rule of thumb is that panels will degrade by about 1% each year.**Apr 20, 2014*


And this:

*A solar PV system is said to have a lifespan of around 25 years. However, same is not the case with the solar inverters. Most inverters come with a life-expectancy of ten years. Although the estimated lifespan of solar inverters is ten years, there are cases where inverters have lasted for 20 years or more. Most inverters require regular maintenance in order to ensure that they are working efficiently; inverters sometimes do require repair. Any malfunctioning of the inverters can cause complete shutdown of the PV system. When that happens, neither usable power is generated nor is there any return on customer investment. Inverters typically get replaced after ten years, and the replacements costs can be significant – sometimes up to 10% of the total capital cost for the project. Factors Affecting the Lifespan of Inverters A PV inverter comprises of passive components like capacitors, inductors and also electromechanical devices like relays and switches. They are complex, mechanical devices which comprise the major portion of maintenance expenditure related to PV systems. They are prone to environmental stressors irrespective of whether they are located indoors or outdoors. Several factors can affect the life of inverters. High ambient temperatures deter the performance of inverters. Hence care should be taken regarding the positioning of inverters. Moreover voltage fluctuations and low grid power quality can adversely affect the life span of inverters. To increase the longevity of inverters, it should be ensured that they remain clean and do not overheat. A quarterly inspection no them for visual signs of damage and to verify that the air and fan grills are free from dirt can make a difference to the life expectancy of inverters. Subscribe to FREE Solar Mango Newsletter - News and Opinions on Implementing Solar
Read more at: http://www.solarmango.com/ask/2015/09/28/what-is-the-lifetime-of-solar-inverters/
*


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It's -24 here this morning. I'm content to be hooked up to dependable natural gas and power. No solar BS for me.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

First thing that comes to my mind is how much it's going to cost to reroof the building with all that solar equipment up there.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

One of the topics that I never really hear about when determining the ROI for solar is the actual cost of electricity being purchased. Everybody always seems to talk about the generation side, but never talks about the “offset”. So in a place like Ontario where energy costs (specifically electricity) are a big issue, they may be more desire to offset costs (net metering) vice generate (MicroFIT) and sell back to the utility. Now a place like Quebec, electricity is far less expensive then Ontario, so the offset option may not be as attractive.

Cheers
John


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

So this is only anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth: Guy I know owns 
a kitchen cupboard fabricate/install company. He says he has 4 houses 
each with 10kW solar (I've seen the one on the house he lives in). Says
they each cost between $22 and $30K and the payout is $5 to $10K per 
year, per system. Microfit program here in Ontario pays much more for 
generation than consumers pay. The amount they're paying has been 
dropping since microfit was introduced. Atleast one of his houses is on 
one of the earliest rates, which will be in effect for 20yrs. 
P&L


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

If the market here was legislated to pay out _more_ for generation than usage, i'd definitely have more interest in the NABCEP Plugs....

~CS~


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

PlugsAndLights said:


> So this is only anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth: Guy I know owns
> a kitchen cupboard fabricate/install company. He says he has 4 houses
> each with 10kW solar (I've seen the one on the house he lives in). Says
> *they each cost between $22 and $30K and the payout is $5 to $10K per
> ...


So you're talking subsidies, then ?


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## ElectricMetalTuba (Mar 20, 2017)

In Alberta, Canada this month, they are rolling out 30% rebate on residential solar installations. So home owner buys panels and they get Provincial funding for 30% up to 11,000$. The catch is they require you to have a certified electrician do the tie in. 

Commercial is around 25%.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Related question: Gather that an engineer of some sort needs to sign off 
on structures ability to support the load. Anyone know more about this? 
Wondering about typical price, whether most places pass w/o upgrading,
if all NA jurisdictions require this, and any direct experience with this part 
of it. 
P&L


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## ElectricMetalTuba (Mar 20, 2017)

You don't need engineer unless Its high wind/high snow. Most distributors have dead load calculators for their assembled products.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Related question: Gather that an engineer of some sort needs to sign off
> on structures ability to support the load. Anyone know more about this?
> Wondering about typical price, whether most places pass w/o upgrading,
> if all NA jurisdictions require this, and any direct experience with this part
> ...


My experience is that this is insurance driven and not CBC or OBC driven. The weight of a typical 10Kw MicroFIT is less then a layer of standard shingles. While there is a potential issue with shear I have not come across it yet. Most residential clients send the specs to their insurance companies and unless they ask for something it is a non-issue.

Cheers

John


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Related question: Gather that an engineer of some sort needs to sign off
> on structures ability to support the load. Anyone know more about this?
> Wondering about typical price, whether most places pass w/o upgrading,
> if all NA jurisdictions require this, and any direct experience with this part
> ...


I know this is an old thread but I've run into this here in Texas. They want to know that roof structure can withstand winds up to 90mph for 3 seconds, and in September 115mph for 3 seconds. That's probably for both uplift and downforce. I need an on-site inspection from a licensed structural engineer in my town. No exceptions.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

TGGT said:


> I know this is an old thread but I've run into this here in Texas. They want to know that roof structure can withstand winds up to 90mph for 3 seconds, and in September 115mph for 3 seconds. That's probably for both uplift and downforce. I need an on-site inspection from a licensed structural engineer in my town. No exceptions.


Another reason to go this way.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

backstay said:


> Another reason to go this way.


How many KW is that panel is rated for ?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

backstay said:


> Another reason to go this way.


Does that have a tracker? I put some consideration into a pole mount but the further we get from the house, the more shade there is in our backyard. We do have an old 20-25' utility pole back there I thought would be useful. 

I'm still trying to price out what a system would cost on my roof.

BTW did you get my PM?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

TGGT said:


> I know this is an old thread but I've run into this here in Texas. They want to know that roof structure can withstand winds up to 90mph for 3 seconds, and in September 115mph for 3 seconds. That's probably for both uplift and downforce. I need an on-site inspection from a licensed structural engineer in my town. No exceptions.


To answer your PM, here is what I use. And the picture you get from it. It figures the shading for you. If you look close at the bottom left you will see red, thats the software calculating shade. 
http://burndyweb.com/wiley/ASSET.html

I thought it would be better with pictures.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

​


MikeFL said:


> First thing that comes to my mind is how much it's going to cost to reroof the building with all that solar equipment up there.


The install I saw here was pretty basic.
It took the guys an hour or so to install two sets of brackets and set the panels.
I asked about re-roofing and what they do is come out, collect the panels and brackets and the. Re-install. 
This was asphalt shingles.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I have only installed small solar for remote use, so I can't speak on the larger contracting side of it, but it just kills me to see the sun shining on a roof at 1000 watts per square meter and it doing nothing but causing the air conditioner to kick on.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I don't know if still in effect, but certain states , coupled with certain installs and the Federal write off's the payback time for the investment was as little as two or three years depending on your income bracket. So that leaves around 10=12 years of drastically reduced electric bills, and the supports for the panels are no more difficult to deal with for a good roofer than the vent pipes the plumber shoots up thru the roof .


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

TGGT said:


> Does that have a tracker? I put some consideration into a pole mount but the further we get from the house, the more shade there is in our backyard. We do have an old 20-25' utility pole back there I thought would be useful.
> 
> I'm still trying to price out what a system would cost on my roof.
> 
> BTW did you get my PM?


No tracking on this mount. They do make side of pole mounts that would work on a utility pole. You should be able to buy everything for $2 per watt. Less if you can buy wholesale. I'm talking grid tie. 



frenchelectrican said:


> How many KW is that panel is rated for ?


So that picture is the latest install, I haven't even wired the panels and the combiner yet. It is a four panel, each panel is 290 watts. I will series two panels together and bring two strings to the combiner. It should run around 70-75 volts DC.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I haven't look much into this. But could a regular breaker panel be used as a combiner box? I was thinking that you could use double pole breakers for positive and negative, backfed, and pull the output from the main lugs? As long as the breakers were rated for DC, is it legit?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> I haven't look much into this. But could a regular breaker panel be used as a combiner box? I was thinking that you could use double pole breakers for positive and negative, backfed, and pull the output from the main lugs? As long as the breakers were rated for DC, is it legit?


I do belive it is legit RP277.,,

I do know the SqD QO series breaker are rated at 48 vdc but once you get up higher voltage you will need diffrent series breaker to handle higher voltage.

I have limited experince with that kind of set up but I do recall there were a addtional rules reguarding of DC disconnect but I dont have the recent edition which they did change some so I cant really comment too much unless it was unchanged from 2011 edition of NEC which I can able read it.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

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RePhase277 said:


> I haven't look much into this. But could a regular breaker panel be used as a combiner box? I was thinking that you could use double pole breakers for positive and negative, backfed, and pull the output from the main lugs? As long as the breakers were rated for DC, is it legit?


The panel needs to be rated for DC also. And we don't OCP the negative. This is a three circuit. $65
MIDNITE, STRING COMBINER, MNPV-3, 3-STRING (150V BREAKERS) OR 2-STRING (FUSES), 60A/600VDC MAX, NEMA3R


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

backstay said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> The panel needs to be rated for DC also. And we don't OCP the negative. This is a three circuit. $65
> MIDNITE, STRING COMBINER, MNPV-3, 3-STRING (150V BREAKERS) OR 2-STRING (FUSES), 60A/600VDC MAX, NEMA3R


I don't have the code with me right now. So you don't OCP the negative as a general practice, or you don't because it's forbidden? I would guess that would depend on if it was grounded or not. I know there are both positive and negative grounded systems.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

RePhase277 said:


> I don't have the code with me right now. So you don't OCP the negative as a general practice, or you don't because it's forbidden? I would guess that would depend on if it was grounded or not. I know there are both positive and negative grounded systems.


Grounding the negative has to do with inverters, transformerless inverters can't be grounded. But with off grid, it's easier, rules wise to leave it ungrounded.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I was just doing some reading. Square D QO and Homeline 2, 4, and 12 circuit panels rated for 48 volt DC. So for the sake of availability and parts cost, I could use a 4 circuit QO panel as a combiner for my upcoming build.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

RePhase277 said:


> I was just doing some reading. Square D QO and Homeline 2, 4, and 12 circuit panels rated for 48 volt DC. So for the sake of availability and parts cost, I could use a 4 circuit QO panel as a combiner for my upcoming build.


So you don't put your panels in series? Staying under 50 volts has some advantages. One is that you don't have to guard the wiring if it's readily accessible. My off grid installs usually have a 50 to 100 foot run from the pole to the charge controller. So I run up to 3 panels in series for voltage drop. I use charge controllers that have a max 150 vdc input.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

backstay said:


> So you don't put your panels in series? Staying under 50 volts has some advantages. One is that you don't have to guard the wiring if it's readily accessible. My off grid installs usually have a 50 to 100 foot run from the pole to the charge controller. So I run up to 3 panels in series for voltage drop. I use charge controllers that have a max 150 vdc input.


As it stands right now, I just have two 150 watt panels feeding 410 AH. They are charged through a homemade MPPT, powered by Arduino. I'm buying two more panels, but if I change the voltage, I'll either need to buy a new MPPT controller, or build one, because my homemade version is for no more than 20 V input.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

RePhase277 said:


> As it stands right now, I just have two 150 watt panels feeding 410 AH. They are charged through a homemade MPPT, powered by Arduino. I'm buying two more panels, but if I change the voltage, I'll either need to buy a new MPPT controller, or build one, because my homemade version is for no more than 20 V input.


Ok, I see. I don't use "off grid" panels. I use 60 cell 280-300 watt panels regardless of if it's a grid tie or off grid system. They output 39 vdc at rated temp. Which means when it gets cold the voltage goes even higher. I use either an Outback FM 80 or a Midnite Solar 150 Classic charge controllers. One other thing on ungrounded systems, if you use fuses, you must protect both the positive and negative.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

backstay said:


> Ok, I see. I don't use "off grid" panels. I use 60 cell 280-300 watt panels regardless of if it's a grid tie or off grid system. They output 39 vdc at rated temp. Which means when it gets cold the voltage goes even higher. I use either an Outback FM 80 or a Midnite Solar 150 Classic charge controllers. One other thing on ungrounded systems, if you use fuses, you must protect both the positive and negative.


Those are a little rich for my small system-in-a-box at this point. It's funny, this all started as a science experiment in electronics. Could we (my son and I) build a programmable controller to charge a battery? It went through 5 generations and several exploded MOSFETS, and finally we got to the point where we actually had a 30 amp controller and a clunky software that could do MPPT.

Now that sits in a box in the woods patiently tending to batteries, waiting for us to come out on the weekend and run a saw:thumbsup:


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

In Nevada solar blew up.
Between government rebates, utility rebates, credits for excess energy produced, panel wattages going up, and prices on gear going down.
Lot of big companies came to town with fleets of trucks, sales offices in retail locations, and even a few startups grew out of control.

One factor is the up front cost. Big solar companies figured out plans such as company owned and selling to you at a lower rate, lease, or loans to create a low to nothing out of pocket. Everywhere you go they were selling. Door to door, phone, email, in stores, malls, and the mail box.

Drive down some areas and every home has them. They installed on low income to super rich. Out of 12 homes on my street 2 have systems. 1 of those was never commissioned and turned on after over a year.

Just like that it got shut down and the resi solar market was destroyed.
By who? A joint effort by the utility company and IBEW.
The utility was required by law to produce a certain percentage of power from solar. 
Once they hit their requirement they jacked the rates.
Starting with a solar home charge, 2nd solar meter charge, and reducing the credit of energy produce from $0.13 what the consumer pays to $0.03.

The IBEW inside wanted to build solar farms in the desert, the IBEW outside wanted the work connecting the solar farms. Resi solar reduced the load on the grid, bad for outside IBEW. 

In mass production of the solar fields the utility is buying power from 3rd parties that own the fields for $0.03. The utility was not making enough money providing people with a energy produced credit canceling out energy used.

Overnight thousands were out of work. Some of the installers considered themselves electricians and went on to other electrical jobs. Others just went back to some labor job and smoking meth.

Now that we have been doing so much solar in our hall we have apprentices turning out as JWs that never did electrical work outside of a solar farm or set foot on a job site.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I saw the "big boys" come in and build a bunch of municipal systems. They claimed to be the experts on solar. Then the rebates started to shrink and finally disappeared. Now guess who is getting calls to fix these systems when they have a problem? The experts can't troubleshoot them because they know nothing about what they installed. You know what the biggest failure is? Wirenut connections. Number two is inverter failures. Number three is shut off breakers! This is going to be a nich market as inverters age. Best part, I set the price, if they don't like it find someone else. Good luck with that.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

I personally wish I never got solar. I should have talked to my tax guy first.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

There is ALWAYS bias when any topic is discussed but a starting point.


https://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/08/solar-worth/


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I personally wish I never got solar. I should have talked to my tax guy first.


Tell us more please.

I had a friend use solar for tanning in lieu of paying for a tanning salon, is this a good return on her investment?:001_huh:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

At the very least it should heat some water. I mean damn! 1 kW/square meter! There is free energy pouring from the sky and yet we choose to burn fuel.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

RePhase277 said:


> At the very least it should heat some water. I mean damn! 1 kW/square meter! There is free energy pouring from the sky and yet we choose to burn fuel.


It will someday. Panels are improving quickly. I install a 290 watt panel that is a "G" size(65x39). They use to be 210 watts and the price is a 1/3. That's in less than five years.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

active1 said:


> In Nevada solar blew up.
> Between government rebates, utility rebates, credits for excess energy produced, panel wattages going up, and prices on gear going down.
> Lot of big companies came to town with fleets of trucks, sales offices in retail locations, and even a few startups grew out of control.
> 
> ...


Exactly the same story happened in Hawaii and the outcome of so many solar ''electricians'' polluting Craigslist now it is criminal.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

RePhase277 said:


> I have only installed small solar for remote use, so I can't speak on the larger contracting side of it, but it just kills me to see the sun shining on a roof at 1000 watts per square meter and it doing nothing but causing the air conditioner to kick on.


This might be way out there, but does anyone offset the heating and air conditioning losses / gains with roof mounted solar? I mean as part of the ROI calculation. 

I remember years ago, when a neighbor cut down a huge maple that was providing shade for my house in the summer, I found out how far a little shade goes. Best solar ROI - put a deciduous tree between your house and the sun  

In warm climates, low rise commercial and industrial flat roofs, I'd bet you're winning twice with rooftop solar.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

splatz said:


> This might be way out there, but does anyone offset the heating and air conditioning losses / gains with roof mounted solar? I mean as part of the ROI calculation.
> 
> I remember years ago, when a neighbor cut down a huge maple that was providing shade for my house in the summer, I found out how far a little shade goes. Best solar ROI - put a deciduous tree between your house and the sun
> 
> In warm climates, low rise commercial and industrial flat roofs, I'd bet you're winning twice with rooftop solar.


Three to five percent of the install price I think. 


http://news.energysage.com/keeping-cool-with-solar-do-solar-panels-cool-your-roof/


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

splatz said:


> This might be way out there, but does anyone offset the heating and air conditioning losses / gains with roof mounted solar? I mean as part of the ROI calculation.
> 
> I remember years ago, when a neighbor cut down a huge maple that was providing shade for my house in the summer, I found out how far a little shade goes. Best solar ROI - put a deciduous tree between your house and the sun
> 
> In warm climates, low rise commercial and industrial flat roofs, I'd bet you're winning twice with rooftop solar.


Imagine that, a device that provides shade in the summer and allows solar energy through in the winter. What a great invention  .


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The last solar I did was over 5 years ago. I remember they were Yingli panels and I am pretty sure they put out 270 watts. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure it was 270.

I just looked them up on the website and they are at 310 watts. I figured it would have doubled by now.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

HackWork said:


> The last solar I did was over 5 years ago. I remember they were Yingli panels and I am pretty sure they put out 270 watts. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure it was 270.
> 
> I just looked them up on the website and they are at 310 watts. I figured it would have doubled by now.


I use REC panels, maybe the efficiency of the Chinese panel isn't a priority for them.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

When the solar music stopped in Vegas things got crazy.

One local solar start-up was in business for less than 2 years.

The owner ended up getting murdered on thanksgiving by his wife in an argument about money. Her reason for the shooting. She answered, "He told me to go [expletive] myself."

Weeks later the children filed bankruptcy.
Turned out they owed 2 suppliers a total of $1.25 million.
Total bankruptcy debt including employees and subcontractors of $4.2 million.
At the BK the checking account balance was $2,200.
The tools and materials at the end were sold off on Craigslist for cash.

The suppliers put liens on over 150 homes.
Most paid in full and some jobs not completed.
48 paid for the system, no work or material performed, lost the deposit, yet still had to fight the lien from the supplier.
A loop hole in NV contractor law allows collecting 100% up front.

Turned out to be the largest case of contractor fraud in NV.
Further investigating they found clients in AZ, NM, CA, & TX.
The original owner made it past the contractor application process despite a past with money laundering.

The company operated at a reckless and careless pace. Knew of one crew that spent days installing systems on the wrong houses. Worked with another guy that went into commercial after the closing. He got to be know as Co-Dean. A combination of his name and fav past time. His 5 panel drug / alcohol test came back as all the above.

Below are the files during the contractor board hearing for the 1 company. Currently they are closed but maintain a 2 star Yelp and 3 star BBB rating.


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## Lightsmith (Oct 8, 2010)

A study done by the University of California Davis of southern California homes found that homes with solar sold for $17,000 more than comparable homes without solar and they sold in half the time. 

I figure that the homeowners spent $17,000 for the installation and will get 100% of that investment back when they sell their house if it is within the next 20 years. The $17,000 has an opportunity cost as the homeowners could have put that money into a financial investment with a return of 2% (like a 10-year treasury bill). That puts the cost at $340 a year to get the output from the solar array or about $28 a month for electricity. 

Their is also tiered billing by the utility companies so even though the average cost per KWH is $0.15, the second tier can be double that and the third tier can be up around $0.40 per KWH. A solar setup that takes a home from the top tier to the bottom tier will result in the best ROI.

It also needs to be considered whether to angle the panels to maximize annual output or average monthly output. To avoid higher tier charges during the summer months when air conditioners may be operating much of the time the angle would be set to maximize output during the summer months.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Lightsmith said:


> A study done by the University of California Davis of southern California homes found that homes with solar sold for $17,000 more than comparable homes without solar and they sold in half the time.


OK, but this is one of those things where correlation isn't necessarily causation. That is, people might see solar and raise their offer an average of $17,000.00 (highly doubt it) or it might just be that homes with solar tend to be owned by people that maintain their homes better and they sell better. Could very well be that putting $10,000 in a kitchen might return more than $10,000 in solar when the time comes to sell. I strongly suspect it's the latter.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

splatz said:


> OK, but this is one of those things where correlation isn't necessarily causation. That is, people might see solar and raise their offer an average of $17,000.00 (highly doubt it) or it might just be that homes with solar tend to be owned by people that maintain their homes better and they sell better. Could very well be that putting $10,000 in a kitchen might return more than $10,000 in solar when the time comes to sell. I strongly suspect it's the latter.


Correct.

The $17,000 stat is anchored to NOTHING.

It's the kind of emotional craft erected by salesmen.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> OK, but this is one of those things where correlation isn't necessarily causation. That is, people might see solar and raise their offer an average of $17,000.00 (highly doubt it) or it might just be that homes with solar tend to be owned by people that maintain their homes better and they sell better. Could very well be that putting $10,000 in a kitchen might return more than $10,000 in solar when the time comes to sell. I strongly suspect it's the latter.


I agree 100%. 

It's like say that eating kale will turn you into a hot woman, just because most of the people who eat kale are hot women.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I agree 100%.
> 
> It's like say that eating kale will turn you into a hot woman, just because most of the people who eat kale are hot women.


That perception can work very well for the kale industry, though. 

Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk


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