# wire ties in a panel



## mavajo3 (Oct 30, 2009)

i was told by our electrical inspector that i sould not put wire ties on the wire in my panels due to it causes heat to the wires. i do it cause it makes the wires neet and i know the next time i go in what i put in and what someone else put into my panel. but a few wire ties on wires CAN THIS BE THAT BIG OF A DEAL come on. or might it be that they need to make me feel bad and they feel good about getting 65 bucks form me.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Tell the inspector you want a Code reference.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

i think its a good idea too! tells you if some HO was messing around in the panel!!


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## Makwelt (Nov 17, 2009)

Ja! Brr u need 2 ask him de pratice number.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Makwelt said:


> Ja! Brr u need 2 ask him de pratice number.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Jaa! Brrr! Hm.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


>


:lol:

Do you expect someone to be coherent when all they do is live work.:whistling2:

Chris


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Are you bundling the wires for more than 2'?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Sounds like the inspector is a hack :no:

I can't see anyone not liking a neat panel and the only way to do that is with wire ties :thumbsup:

Anyone ever hear of wires melting because they were tied together in the panel


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I agree with the inspector if the wires are tie wraped together for more than 2'.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

william1978 said:


> I agree with the inspector if the wires are tie wraped together for more than 2'.


 Even then, I don't see it; the wires would have to be tie wrapped every few inches and tightly packed in order for inductive heating to occur. If you can pack a 24" nipple with as many wires as you want, what's the difference here? The wires are gertting air.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Yea, I meant tie wraped every 3" or 4".


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Ty wrapping conductors in an electrical panel is a 2008 NEC requirement. For specific locations see 210.4 (D)


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Ty wrapping conductors in an electrical panel is a 2008 NEC requirement. For specific locations see 210.4 (D)



Exception: Theory gone.:whistling2:

In a resi setting.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

leland said:


> Exception: Theory gone.:whistling2:
> 
> In a resi setting.


OP never specified where the panel was located, nor did he say it was a conduit with only one mwbc, let alone any mwbc's at all, so theory stays....:whistling2:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> OP never specified where the panel was located, nor did he say it was a conduit with only one mwbc, let alone any mwbc's at all, so theory stays....:whistling2:



Well, I guess I'll just have to go to HI and discuss this further.:thumbup::thumbup:

(any excuse will do)

Exception still stands. Any setting.


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

I was in the business about two years and I asked my father who I have the utmost respect this question about the ties his response was anyone who needs ties in a panel should find another job .Twenty three years later and I have never used a tie and pride myself on neatness .I also hate cutting ten million ties out when removing one circuit because others can`t do the same.Ties to me = laziness.Can`t do without it must mean can`t do it at all. Can allways tell the quality of the installer by little things like this.As a foreman I look at these things.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

minibdr said:


> I was in the business about two years and I asked my father who I have the utmost respect this question about the ties his response was anyone who needs ties in a panel should find another job .Twenty three years later and I have never used a tie and pride myself on neatness .I also hate cutting ten million ties out when removing one circuit because others can`t do the same.Ties to me = laziness.Can`t do without it must mean can`t do it at all. Can allways tell the quality of the installer by little things like this.As a foreman I look at these things.


I couldn't have said it better. I am a second generation electrician and I cant remember ever using ty-wraps when terminating a panelboard or loadcenter while working with my father.
If you couldn't get the wire to lay in the right position then it was a poor installation. I have had the same bag in my truck for years.
I do use them on data cables.
I have made up some very large gear and not used even one ty-wrap, then have had to install lacing cord around the conductors like the picture in the gear shows. It would have been a pain if it was all ty-wrppaed together.


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

On data jobs to insure a proper installation with no damage I use Velcro ties on ladder racks and in the switches. I have often seen this written in job specs as well. MacMike thanks for pointing out the code section as I read it what it states is that one tie or similar method is needed for identification not for neatness or support.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

minibdr said:


> I use Velcro ties


I have been using velcro in my panels for a couple years now. I hate tywraps in panels.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I've never used one in a panel either. It can look nice but it's cheating. It would take me longer to put the tie wraps on at this point than it does to just bend them into place.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

minibdr said:


> I was in the business about two years and I asked my father who I have the utmost respect this question about the ties his response was anyone who needs ties in a panel should find another job .Twenty three years later and I have never used a tie and pride myself on neatness .I also hate cutting ten million ties out when removing one circuit because others can`t do the same.Ties to me = laziness.Can`t do without it must mean can`t do it at all. Can allways tell the quality of the installer by little things like this.As a foreman I look at these things.


I completely agree with you, and that's the way i have always done panels, and i kind of cringed when i thought of zip ties in a panel.:no:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I hate tie wraps supporting mc in walls and ceilings. I just hate tie wraps. 

Anyone have any cheese?


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I hate tie wraps supporting mc in walls and ceilings. I just hate tie wraps.
> 
> Anyone have any cheese?


 your wish is my command


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> I hate tie wraps supporting mc in walls and ceilings. I just hate tie wraps.


I hate finding tywraps in my cheese.



william1978 said:


> Anyone have any cheese?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I hate finding tywraps in my cheese.


 Where is the tywrap?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JoeKP said:


> your wish is my command


 $13.99 huh?:laughing:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

You guys are crazy, tie wraps are cool: first you "form" the wire to where it should be, then, you tie wrap the stuff out of your way, make it neat, like a control panel. Sure it's a pain to go back, years later and have to cut them all just to add a circuit here or there, but jeez...I like the look. Oh well, whatever, never mind.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Where is the tywrap?


 
I found it!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Wire ties*

Not necessary, and very inconvenient for later trouble calls, if any.


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## bthesparky (Jan 23, 2009)

solid wire shouldn't require zip ties, stranded i use velcro wrap so i dont hose the next guy and he can continue the nice neat work. As far as the inspinctor saying no zip ties all i got to say is AHJ. unforunately case closed.


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## st0mps (Aug 19, 2009)

i like using the ty-wrap pads u stick them on the back on the panels then use a ty-wrap holds them nice n snug n nice n neat


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Stranded wire gets ty-raps, solid doesn't. I can't remember the last panel I made up that had solid wire.


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## ralph (Apr 6, 2008)

Agreed. You really should be able to do it neat eneough wherre you dont need them.
I had someone tell me that wire ties were not rated for bundling conductors in a loadcenter, do I just focus on keeping them neat.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> You guys are crazy, tie wraps are cool: first you "form" the wire to where it should be, then, you tie wrap the stuff out of your way, make it neat, like a control panel. Sure it's a pain to go back, years later and have to cut them all just to add a circuit here or there, but jeez...I like the look. Oh well, whatever, never mind.


yeah, but you shouldn't need them in the first place


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Wire Ties*



BuzzKill said:


> You guys are crazy, tie wraps are cool: first you "form" the wire to where it should be, then, you tie wrap the stuff out of your way, make it neat, like a control panel. Sure it's a pain to go back, years later and have to cut them all just to add a circuit here or there, but jeez...I like the look. Oh well, whatever, never mind.


The control panels I have dealt with had PANDUIT, and did not require a lot of wire ties...The wire ties, are a headache when trying to pull on wires to find the CORRECT wire.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I found it!


 Tasty..........


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Wire Ties*



william1978 said:


> Tasty..........


I have to be honest with everyone, if this is all that I had to offer, I would probably not even POST.,


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I have to be honest with everyone, if this is all that I had to offer, I would probably not even POST.,


does this make you the pot, or the kettle?:laughing:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> does this make you the pot, or the kettle?:laughing:


 :laughing:


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## Mastertorturer (Jan 28, 2009)

Ty-wrapping is fine as long as you treat them like conductors in a raceway. De-rate them correctly and the heat will be a non-issue.

1. It's a neater job regardless of the wire being solid/stranded.

2. Who cares about the next guy in your panel? It's yours not his. 

3. Wire management has been prevalent in Commercial/Industrial work for decades.


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