# Jumped to conclusion



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I think you can sleep well tonight. You have 4 wires going back to the main panel and the ground and neutral are not in parallel. How else would you do this? Run a grounded wire between panels and bond at both.


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

I hope so. I treated it like you would a sub panel and then thought that it is an extention of the maine service panel and might not require the isolated grounds.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

burndy said:


> I hope so. I treated it like you would a sub panel and then thought that it is an extention of the maine service panel and might not require the isolated grounds.


Are you saying there is no OCP on the service? Explain what you have from the meter in.


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

No, there is a 100 amp main breaker in service panel. What I meant ws there is no breaker for the mlo panel. It is tapped off the main with some auxilary lugs.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Next time, consult the jump to conclusions mat first:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

burndy said:


> No, there is a 100 amp main breaker in service panel. What I meant ws there is no breaker for the mlo panel. It is tapped off the main with some auxilary lugs.


So it is tapped off the main service conductors not after the breaker? That is a possible violation.


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

there are an additional set of lugs that appear to come of the buss bars, I didn't origianals notice them until I stated to think about the project. the wires from these lugs feed the small mlo panel. When I first started I thought it was a miswired sub panel (no ground) so I added it and a ground bar, removed bonding strap and isolated the grounds. The panel only has the range in it. After thinking about it I'm not sure any of that was needed.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Next time, consult the jump to conclusions mat first:


 So this is what you were making while you were banned here?:laughing::jester:


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

So it sounds like I need to make a return trip.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

burndy said:


> So it sounds like I need to make a return trip.


 
This stuff is all over my head, except this.

Total solid on you to give a crap!


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Here's the way i see it. These lugs you are describing are still downstream from the first means of disconnect. It sounds like a little 100A feed thru. 

You were there to install a 4 wire range circuit, so you arranged the sub panel correctly so that your 4-wire range circuit would not be moot. At the same time, you made the subpanel code compliant.

You're just over think'in a little. Nighty Night.:thumbsup:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

What amperage is the sub panel rated at and what size are the conductors feeding it? The 100 amp main protects the feeder to that panel.


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

my fear is that this is not really a sub panel and if so then what I did would be wrong. I do have a habit of over thinking things to death though.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

It is a sub panel. If you removed the neutral bond at the range lugs, then you're done. The first two sentences in post #2 sum it up.


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

3xdad said:


> It is a sub panel. If you removed the neutral bond at the range lugs, then you're done. The first two sentences in post #2 sum it up.


I guess I thought that because the main 100 amp breaker is the only way to disconnect the mlo panel I started thinking that it shouldn't be treated like a sub. It this correct thinking?


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Next time, consult the jump to conclusions mat first:


This is the first thing that I thought of when I saw the title of the thread.

Office Space. :thumbup:


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

> I notice that the panel feed is 3 wire 2 hot,1 neutral (bonded to can)I say sub panel wired wrong and add ground bar remove bonding strap and add a ground, then feed new range.


Let me ask you this. You said that the sub panel feed was 3 wire. Was it conductors in conduit or feeder assembly or cable? How did you "add a ground"?

How did you install an equipment ground from the service panel to the sub panel?


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

It was feed in maybe 1 1/4-1 1/2 inch fmc. All single conductors.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

And you pulled in an equipment ground?

IMO, if you installed it in that same FMC, then you're good. That sub panel is only 4 feet away and within sight. It doesn't need a main breaker.


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

Correct.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

O.K. read post #20, i added to it before i saw your answer. 


thanks


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## burndy (Jul 15, 2010)

ok, so your saying what I did was ideed the way to go and the fact that the 100 amp breaker that shuts off the main service panel also kills the mlo does not change the fact that it is a sub panel. Which would require the isolated ground.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Yes. A feeder left the service enclosure after the first means of disconnect to supply branch circuits (range) that do not originate in the service enclosure, so... subpanel.


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