# Long layoffs what to do?



## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

If you’re young and don’t have a family there is an easy answer. Hit the road sign a bunch of books. Take a call. Profit. At least that’s how it is in the US. If you don’t want to travel this is much more difficult to answer and none of the answers are very appealing.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

blueheels2 said:


> If you’re young and don’t have a family there is an easy answer. Hit the road sign a bunch of books. Take a call. Profit. At least that’s how it is in the US. If you don’t want to travel this is much more difficult to answer and none of the answers are very appealing.


What about individual state licenses?


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Go find a small one or two person open shop and work off the books. Keep the union talk to yourself. Keep a low profile. Make money. 

Skip the salting $hit.


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## greenman (Apr 20, 2012)

brandonm11 said:


> Hey guys I'm brand new to the forum! My names Brandon I'm a new journeymen. (about 6 months now) I'm a member IBEW local 120 London, Ontario, Canada. Throughout my apprenticeship I was very steady with little to no time off now as a journeymen I'm on the big list laid off about 3 months with still around 2000 hours worked and about 90-100 guys out of work. So looks like I won't be going out anytime soon. So i'm wondering what guys do with all the time off EI (employment insurance) gets me by for now but it won't last forever. So what do you guys do or recommend doing. Should I volunteer to go saluting(I know it's greasy to do but at least you work) should I ask the hall to work non-union if my EI is coming close to running out? Or do you guys go find other jobs if so what kinds of things can I get into that pays decent. All my education and work experience is in electrical so I don't know where to start I'm thinking of applying to industrial maintenance jobs but I'm a 309A and mostly worked in commercial and institutional and some industrial now and then so I'm scared I'd go to one of these jobs and be totally lost I also have very little PLC experience. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated thanks guys and have a great christmas.


 come work CUSW AT THE BRUCE


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## brandonm11 (Dec 21, 2018)

greenman where do I apply?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

All that oil field work up there and you can't git you some? Ya gotta do, what you gotta do to eat, and pay bills, like flyboy sez, go sell yourself door to door, dig ditches if you have to. Travel or starve. Or marry a rich chick.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

When your full time gig (okay so that's a joke with a trade union) job has a layoff it puts you in a tight spot because you're not making money now but if you go off and do something else in the interim how do you leave without burning bridges when you go back to work in the "full time" job? It's hard to find side work that you can just drop whenever you need to. On the other hand I found a much better job when I was between jobs which is true full time, and pays better with better benefits. So it was an easy decision. I crawl the walls after a day or two of not working where my only job is the honey do list. Also it's hard to go looking for work on unskilled or lesser jobs which put the good one "at risk" but trust me people in those jobs often leave at the drop of a hat.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

paulengr said:


> When your full time gig (okay so that's a joke with a trade union)
> ~
> in the "full time" job


 @paulengr, you have this chip on your shoulder and throw these union digs into every thread that you can, and usually what you say is absolutely false. But when people actually comment on it you never respond, you just do the chicken steve thing of ignoring it but then saying the same thing in the next thread.

So I am going to respectfully ask you to either man up and discuss what you continually post, or shut the fu*k up.

We can start with your comment above. In my 15 years of union work, I never had more than 2 weeks off in a year except for voluntary vacations- just like the vast majority of union members that I have known. So your constant comments about union members not working much and not being employed full time simply don't make sense.

You are the guy who says that the average IBEW electrician in NJ and NY makes the equivalent of $12/hr. And when I pointed out how astronomically insane that is to say, you never responded, but you continued to say it in other threads.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Mulder said:


> What about individual state licenses?


Not typically an issue when working union as the contractor (employer) holds the license not the individual employee..


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

paulengr said:


> When your full time gig (okay so that's a joke with a trade union) job has a layoff it puts you in a tight spot because you're not making money now but if you go off and do something else in the interim how do you leave without burning bridges when you go back to work in the "full time" job? It's hard to find side work that you can just drop whenever you need to. On the other hand I found a much better job when I was between jobs which is true full time, and pays better with better benefits. So it was an easy decision. I crawl the walls after a day or two of not working where my only job is the honey do list. Also it's hard to go looking for work on unskilled or lesser jobs which put the good one "at risk" but trust me people in those jobs often leave at the drop of a hat.


What's with the hostility?

In all the years I was union the only time I was laid off was when I wanted a vacation more than a few days and that wasn't often. I had employers that were overly understanding of my second job.

If you're a good worker with a good reputation you don't worry about being laid off.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> @paulengr, you have this chip on your shoulder and throw these union digs into every thread that you can, and usually what you say is absolutely false. But when people actually comment on it you never respond, you just do the chicken steve thing of ignoring it but then saying the same thing in the next thread.
> 
> So I am going to respectfully ask you to either man up and discuss what you continually post, or shut the fu*k up.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a case of jealousy there bro!

If he is a college educated 'engineer' and invested in his education and doesn't bring in the same annual income as a mere union journeyman it must really bother him.

Those NJ-NY guys that make 6 digits a year must really burn his ass. As for $12 a hour, I honestly can't even recall what year I was making under $30k.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

joebanana said:


> All that oil field work up there and you can't git you some? Ya gotta do, what you gotta do to eat, and pay bills, like flyboy sez, go sell yourself door to door, dig ditches if you have to. Travel or starve. Or marry a rich chick.


No oil in Ontario. Besides that, our oil is landlocked and the greenies are winning the pipeline battle.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

brandonm11 said:


> Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated thanks guys and have a great christmas.


1. *Fill out your profile as per the forum agreement.
*
2. Take up some punctuation and grammar lessons, your post was one continuous paragraph and difficult to read. You're a skilled trades person, take pride in it!:vs_cool:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

brandonm11 said:


> Hey guys I'm brand new to the forum! My names Brandon I'm a new journeymen. (about 6 months now) I'm a member IBEW local 120 London, Ontario, Canada. Throughout my apprenticeship I was very steady with little to no time off now as a journeymen I'm on the big list laid off about 3 months with still around 2000 hours worked and about 90-100 guys out of work. So looks like I won't be going out anytime soon. So i'm wondering what guys do with all the time off EI (employment insurance) gets me by for now but it won't last forever. So what do you guys do or recommend doing. *Should I volunteer to go saluting*(I know it's greasy to do but at least you work) should I ask the hall to work non-union if my EI is coming close to running out? Or do you guys go find other jobs if so what kinds of things can I get into that pays decent. All my education and work experience is in electrical so I don't know where to start I'm thinking of applying to industrial maintenance jobs but I'm a 309A and mostly worked in commercial and institutional and some industrial now and then so I'm scared I'd go to one of these jobs and be totally lost I also have very little PLC experience. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated thanks guys and have a great christmas.



Do lower yourself into the realm of a sewer snipe. IMO opinion Salting is lower than lower.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

flyboy said:


> Go find a small one or two person open shop and work off the books. Keep the union talk to yourself. Keep a low profile. Make money.
> 
> Skip the salting $hit.


And if caught your charged from the union.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Not typically an issue when working union as the contractor (employers) holds the license not the individual employee..


OP is from Ontario Canada where all workers must be registered as an apprentice or hold a Red Seal electrician licence. Contractor also needs a contracting license.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

eddy current said:


> And if caught your charged from the union.


Yeah, but it's not really like that. At least not around here. As long as you keep a low profile by keeping it quiet, so nobody makes a big stink about it, they'll tend to look the other way. 

After all, who in the union really gives a $hit about a small resi guy scraping it out doing service upgrades and a brother trying to make ends meet?

I had a retired union rep as a close friend that I went o back to the 80's with when I was a signatory contractor. That was his sentiment,


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

eddy current said:


> OP is from Ontario Canada where all workers must be registered as an apprentice or hold a Red Seal electrician licence. Contractor also needs a contracting license.


Hence the reason I said "typically", not all areas are the same and your results may vary!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

eddy current said:


> And if caught your charged from the union.


...working off the books you can be Edward J Canada Jr........j/s


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

At the present time, Washington DC needs electricians, there has been a shortage for a long time. Not sure what being a Canadian would do in regards to work visas and all the rest of the mumbo jumbo. but plenty of illegals working here. THOUGH I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU WORK ILLEGALLY.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> As for $12 a hour, I honestly can't even recall what year I was making under $30k.


My "worst" year I only worked 20 weeks or so. Most of it down south (KY, GA, AR). I still made $48k that year. Smh.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

brian john said:


> At the present time, Washington DC needs electricians, there has been a shortage for a long time. Not sure what being a Canadian would do in regards to work visas and all the rest of the mumbo jumbo. but plenty of illegals working here. THOUGH I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU WORK ILLEGALLY.


I hear it's not too hard for our Canadian brothers to get a work visa. I say to any of them looking for work, get your visa and come on down brothers. We need help all over.


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## brandonm11 (Dec 21, 2018)

Chops146 said:


> I hear it's not too hard for our Canadian brothers to get a work visa. I say to any of them looking for work, get your visa and come on down brothers. We need help all over.


There was a big job in Georgia our local was suppose to send a big number members out. From what I've heard Trump has denied us from working in the states. I believe we are fighting this at the moment.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

brandonm11 said:


> There was a big job in Georgia our local was suppose to send a big number members out. From what I've heard Trump has denied us from working in the states. I believe we are fighting this at the moment.


Plant Vogtle out of Augusta's local. There were a couple articles in the journal about that. As I recall, someone will correct me if I am wrong, it was supposed to be a block of 250+ preapproved H1Bs and that's why it was shut down. That's not stopping an individual brother fron giving it a go. That job's a money maker, btw. I posted about it in the "Nukes Making a Comeback" thread.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

brian john said:


> At the present time, Washington DC needs electricians, there has been a shortage for a long time. Not sure what being a Canadian would do in regards to work visas and all the rest of the mumbo jumbo. but plenty of illegals working here. THOUGH I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU WORK ILLEGALLY.


Great suggestion Brian, now Trump is making plans for a Northern Wall as well. That will be trillions of dollars!:biggrin:

Foreman: "Why are all these panels sideways?":vs_laugh:


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Not typically an issue when working union as the contractor (employer) holds the license not the individual employee..


In my state any person who does electrical work needs an electrical license. There are some exceptions, but typical electrical construction work would not be one of them.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

https://www.visaplace.com/blog-immigration-law/tn-visa-information/canadians-work-us/


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Good labor is scarce. Employees take their pick right now, and employers are getting a lot of less than stellar workers to fill the gaps. $29.75 for JIW in Local 20.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

Must be Christmas or something, I fully expected to see this turn into a union vs non-union debate.

If your young, single, than you may have to travel to find work. Or start working non-union, its not as bad as some of your union brothers make it out to be.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

TGGT said:


> Good labor is scarce. Employees take their pick right now, and employers are getting a lot of less than stellar workers to fill the gaps. $29.75 for JIW in Local 20.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T so she left showed up the next day. using Tapatalk


Due to a few jobs that have to be wrapped up by years end, we had a call to the hall we have the real bench warners working for us presently.

One woman came in from DC 30 mile drive the Monday before Thanksgiving and her first question was if I work today will I get paid for Thanksgiving, she did not qualify. In 4 weeks she did not make 40 hours. She quit because her husband was having a baby.

Another guy is claiming racism (AJ), he and 2 others were doing the same work in different location an apprentice and an AJ both women they were out doing this guy by miles. Superintendent sized the guy up and decided to have him cutting kindorf with a bandsaw. This work has to be completed outside by job site rules. Since he is the only one working in the cold he feels he is being singled out and claiming racism. 

Another job 4-men not one has gotten 40 hours.

On another note, we have picked up some excellent men and women.


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Erased due to not reading properly


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

bostonPedro said:


> While it may not be racially motivated to have the guy cut strut with a *hacksaw* it is a real POS move to have someone do that. Basically what you people are doing is singling out a POS worker, punishing him instead of doing the right thing for the job and that is laying him off. I hate when management plays games and then bitches when workers play back.
> Grow the hell up


:surprise::surprise::surprise:



brian john said:


> Superintendent sized the guy up and decided to have him cutting kindorf with a *bandsaw*.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

brian john said:


> Another guy is claiming racism (AJ), he and 2 others were doing the same work in different location an apprentice and an AJ both women they were out doing this guy by miles. Superintendent sized the guy up and decided to have him cutting kindorf with a *bandsaw*. This work has to be completed outside by job site rules. Since he is the only one working in the cold he feels he is being singled out and claiming racism.





bostonPedro said:


> While it may not be racially motivated to have the guy cut strut with a *hacksaw* it is a real POS move to have someone do that. Basically what you people are doing is singling out a POS worker, punishing him instead of doing the right thing for the job and that is laying him off. I hate when management plays games and then bitches when workers play back.
> Grow the hell up


 @bostonPedro, You might want to re-read and reconsider your tirade. 

I am reading a marginal worker was given a job that *someone* was going to have to do, putting him somewhere he'd be less likely to hold up the show. 

I don't see a hacksaw mentioned.


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Totally misread that so I will erase post …….thanks 

Still would lay him off though


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> @bostonPedro, You might want to re-read and reconsider your tirade.


YOU may want to get up earlier if you think you're going to beat good ol' Hax to the punch! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

splatz said:


> @bostonPedro, You might want to re-read and reconsider your tirade.
> 
> I am reading a marginal worker was given a job that *someone* was going to have to do, putting him somewhere he'd be less likely to hold up the show.
> 
> I don't see a hacksaw mentioned.




Misread as hacksaw ....my mistake 

Think my current work situation may have to do something me being pissy.
My apologies to the OP
Management playing games with the GC in a tit for tat battle on what should be a simple job and good workers stuck in the middle of it and a few POS workers who bring others down because they ball lap the foremen to keep their jobs and at the time are weak workers who complain, tear down good workers behind their backs and gossip

I hate when companies keep trash workers, they are an infection


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

bostonPedro said:


> Misread as hacksaw ....my mistake
> 
> Think my current work situation may have to do something me being pissy.
> My apologies to the OP
> ...


There's also holiday PMS this time of year, almost universal ... simple misread, NBD.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

splatz said:


> There's also holiday PMS this time of year, almost universal ... simple misread, NBD.


Wrong!

It is a big deal.

It is a huge deal!

Don't let him off the hook. You can't.

Soon he'll be posting all kinds of nonsense, stuff about future codes that will create pages and pages of arguments. Don't let him get started.


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

Sometimes I type in a reply and then scroll down to read something. Then I have to scroll back up and delete what I wrote.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Mulder said:


> In my state any person who does electrical work needs an electrical license. There are some exceptions, but typical electrical construction work would not be one of them.


Interesting, never dealt with that.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

When there are multiple jobs to be completed on a large job it is up to the job foreman to determine who is best at what and put them at that task. While full-time employees would be trained or expected to be good at a variety of task, short-term employees are here to do one thing assist in completing the job. 

One thing NO ONE WANTS in today's market is to be singled out as a racist. Additionally calling others out as racist or doing their job is sure to be a way to limit your ability to be employed as word gets around.

If you are a bench warmers in a market with 100% employment there is most likely a very good reason for that flat azz


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## j13 (Oct 19, 2014)

Ya I am looking for work in London area as well, came on to see if 120 was busy at the moment or not.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Have I ever mentioned how much I love union threads?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

j13 said:


> Ya I am looking for work in London area as well, came on to see if 120 was busy at the moment or not.


Are you out of work?

Are you union?

Have you called the local?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

j13 said:


> Ya I am looking for work in London area as well, came on to see if 120 was busy at the moment or not.


1. Welcome aboard @j13!

2. Call the BA at the hall!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Have I ever mentioned how much I love union threads?


Maybe one or ten times!


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

In Trump's economy -- how in the world does a brother stay laid off?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

telsa said:


> In Trump's economy -- how in the world does a brother stay laid off?


He is from Canada


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## greenman (Apr 20, 2012)

brandonm11 said:


> greenman where do I apply?


The Canadian Union of Skilled Workers. On Line


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

I get drunk. Also I cook good food from scratch and enjoy extra time with my family. But mostly, I get drunk.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Chops146 said:


> I get drunk. Also I cook good food from scratch and enjoy extra time with my family. But mostly, I get drunk.


That seems like an expensive counterproductive hobby!


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That seems like an expensive counterproductive hobby!


It really is.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok, I'll ask, how does one travel to different states with different licenses without having the creds? I know they're qualified, that isn't the issue, not like electricity works differently when in another state, but here we have state and local inspectors that will ask for licenses. The Fire marshall was doing it too for awhile. I don't have any experience with the union so I don't know how things are. This is just for a better understanding of how things work.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Chops146 said:


> It really is.


As long as you realize.


Only hobby I spent money on foolishly was marriages and gifting houses to women that were mad at me.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

nrp3 said:


> Ok, I'll ask, how does one travel to different states with different licenses without having the creds? I know they're qualified, that isn't the issue, not like electricity works differently when in another state, but here we have state and local inspectors that will ask for licenses. The Fire marshall was doing it too for awhile. I don't have any experience with the union so I don't know how things are. This is just for a better understanding of how things work.


Like everything else, depends on the state, other states have no licensing, I think there is some limited reciprocity between some states, some like NH going to be pretty difficult to travel to.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

splatz said:


> Like everything else, depends on the state, other states have no licensing, I think there is some limited reciprocity between some states, some like NH going to be pretty difficult to travel to.


Can't find my cheat sheet, but there's about 14 no license states, 3-5 non reciprocity states and the rest having reciprocity. 4 licenses will cover you for all the reciprocity states. I'll post more info when I find that darn sheet.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

We’ve been working towards more reciprocal agreements with other states, thing is if you want to work in Mass, you need the Mass license even if they reciprocate with NH. Just means you don’t have to take the journeyman’s exam.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

nrp3 said:


> We’ve been working towards more reciprocal agreements with other states, thing is if you want to work in Mass, you need the Mass license even if they reciprocate with NH. Just means you don’t have to take the journeyman’s exam.


That's how most of the reciprocity works. You have to hold a license from a state they reciprocate with for a year, then apply for their license through reciprocity. You send in your paperwork from the license you have, maybe pay a fee, and they grant you a license. And almost all of them use the PSI test, but they don't all reciprocate. That's why our DOL recognized journeyman card should be valid in every state.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The State has worked to increase the number of States it reciprocates with, not sure what the total is. Probably something I could google. I really think once you have a state one, it should be recognized anywhere there is a state one. While there are differences in rules by state, its not that different that you couldn't pick it up once you're on the job. I think it really becomes a tax otherwise. If you move, then you can switch state licenses. Having it at the local and county level is nuts.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

Haven't found my cheat sheet, so I will have to remake it.


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Chops146 said:


> Haven't found my cheat sheet, so I will have to remake it.


 Missouri doesn't currently require/have a state license for any degree; apprentice, journeyman, or master. Starting January 1rst of this year, the state _was_ going to do this, but it's been pushed back to July. Low priority and the governor who pushed for it is gone now.
This list might be what you're looking for;
https://www.electricianschooledu.org/state-by-state-licensing-guide/


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

stiffneck said:


> Missouri doesn't currently require/have a state license for any degree; apprentice, journeyman, or master. Starting January 1rst of this year, the state _was_ going to do this, but it's been pushed back to July. Low priority and the governor who pushed for it is gone now.
> This list might be what you're looking for;
> https://www.electricianschooledu.org/state-by-state-licensing-guide/


That's the one I started with. Had to go to several state sites for reciprocity research.


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## Code Man (Feb 6, 2019)

You guys in London looking for work, CUSW is in need of electricians for Bruce Power. Lots of work for 15-20 years with good pay and benefits.


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