# How am I supposed to hook this thing up..



## l0sts0ul (May 7, 2011)

Hey, 

I got this motor dropped on me yesterday hooked up to a gear box for a chicken poop agitator. Problem ive found is, I don't understand the nameplate, nor the hook ups on the other end. From what I Can see, I don't have the proper voltage to run this unit. 

I have attached pictures of the nameplate, and the peckerhead where the connection diagram is. Im just used to having our 9 leads, and nothing else. This has what looks like a terminal block as well as a temp sensor? and something else? The fan on the motor is shaft mounted, so I know that one of the extra leads isn't for the fan motor.

It came with a VFD that I have to hook up, but my concern is that because the power requirements dont come close to matching, I Don't want to risk causing an overloard or worse, a short.

The power source available is 208v 3p4w 60Hz.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

The VFD can likely be programmed to supply the motor with exactly what it needs for voltage, so you can't mess up the motor. What matters is what the input is on the VFD. 

Besides which, even without the VFD I'd run 208V into the 200V YY connection all day long.

The PTC is a thermistor.

The NCC, I'm guessing is a bimetallic temperature sensor, but I'm not 100%.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

l0sts0ul said:


> Hey,
> 
> I got this motor dropped on me yesterday hooked up to a gear box for a chicken poop agitator. Problem ive found is, I don't understand the nameplate, nor the hook ups on the other end. From what I Can see, I don't have the proper voltage to run this unit.
> 
> ...



Maybe I just don't see it but the diagram does not show the voltages..:blink:


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## l0sts0ul (May 7, 2011)

Big John said:


> Besides which, even without the VFD I'd run 208V into the 200V YY connection all day long.
> 
> The PTC is a thermistor.
> 
> The NCC, I'm guessing is a bimetallic temperature sensor, but I'm not 100%.


the 200YY connections are 50hz though, and I won't get the proper output rotational speed will I? or will the VFD accomodate that. Also, when looking at the hook up diagram, I'm bringing in 3phase to it, I will have to adjust the connections accordingly, but the load conductors from the VFD will have to go to the U1, V1, W1, connections right?

LOL, im having such a brainfart right now.


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## l0sts0ul (May 7, 2011)

I just noticed the delta and wye symbols to the right of the hookup diagrams. so I understand that now, but the diagrams are laid out so the low voltage connection diagram would be on the top, and high voltage on the bottom? 

There fore I would connect using the top right wiring diagram.

does this seem logical?

EDIT: I just noticed that to use the 200v setting, it would have to be YY, so bottom right... please confirm my thoughts.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

l0sts0ul said:


> the 200YY connections are 50hz though.


 My mistake, I missed the 50Hz, but if I were starting this across-the-line, I'd still connect it wye-wye: 208V into a 230V connection isn't gonna make a huge difference unless you are running this thing near peak duty.


> ...and I won't get the proper output rotational speed will I?


 Reducing voltage lowers torque. Reducing frequency lowers speed.


> ...Or will the VFD accomodate that.


 In this case, yes, you'd set your VFD to feed this thing 60Hz at whatever voltage configuration matches the nameplate. Long story short: You should be more concerned about the VFD than the motor.


> ...But the load conductors from the VFD will have to go to the U1, V1, W1, connections right?


 Yep.


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## l0sts0ul (May 7, 2011)

Big John said:


> My mistake, I missed the 50Hz, but if I were starting this across-the-line, I'd still connect it wye-wye: 208V into a 230V connection isn't gonna make a huge difference unless you are running this thing near peak duty. Reducing voltage lowers torque. Reducing frequency lowers speed. In this case, yes, you'd set your VFD to feed this thing 60Hz at whatever voltage configuration matches the nameplate. Long story short: You should be more concerned about the VFD than the motor. Yep.



so, you're suggesting running 208v to the 230v connections, and making sure the VFD (which I am not programming, they have an office weenie doing that) is programmed to accomodate this?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Find out what the VFD specs are: I can almost guarantee that the VFD will be able to put out a voltage and frequency that match at least one of those wiring configurations on your nameplate.

But without knowing what the VFD is doing, it doesn't make sense to discuss how to connect it.

I was being needlessly confusing talking about 230V, because I was describing what I'd do if you did not have any frequency drive.


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

I would call for a special inspection because the motor is not approved for use in North America.
Use the 200 volts 50 Hz unless you need to run the motor faster but the VFD can give you 60 Hz. too. If the VFD can output 230 volts at 60 Hz that is the one I would use over the rest.


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## l0sts0ul (May 7, 2011)

Here is the link for the VFD manual

http://ecatalog.weg.net/files/wegne...-inverter-manual-0899.5242-manual-english.pdf


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## IslandWire (Aug 3, 2013)

First off, it is a European motor but not British. British would be R,S,T phases and this is U,V,W. Second, the Europeans usually use a Thermistor relay instead of the 'heaters' or overloads that we use. They sense the internal temperature of the motor windings and open the starter if it gets too hot. You may use these connections if the VFD has a thermistor input and if you program that to act as your overload, otherwise, just ignore them. 

You will have to decide on your drive programming first. What outputs can the VFD give you and then set it up to match one of the motor wiring configurations on the label. You will have to know if the VFD is going to output a Delta or Wye bank voltage and after that you should be all set.


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## l0sts0ul (May 7, 2011)

I am not programming the vfd, the customer has a engineer that is supposed to be sending someone out to program it. 

I hate these scenarios with this customer, they always seem to pop up.


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## IslandWire (Aug 3, 2013)

If all you have to do is wire it, I would use (Low Volt Wye) the Y/Y diagram(Lower one on the Right) for the 132/230 60Hz and make sure they know the motor is 230V 60Hz when they set it up. The drive should output what you input to it unless you manually change that. So you are on a 208 Wye(3ph-4Wire) bank, they will have to boost the output to 230V instead of the 208V it will want to output.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

The YY connection (lower right) will almost certainly work on 208. 

If the VFD has a PTC (thermistor) input, I would connect the PTC to it. Polarity doesn't matter, but I would run the PTC wires in a separate conduit if the run is longer than 10'. The PTC will cause the VFD to stop if the motor windings overheat. There is no temperature programming for it in the VFD, the PTC is chosen by the manufacturer to trip at the maximum winding temperature. 

You will have to program (activate) its function in the VFD though. 

If YY doesn't work, and if the VFD will allow it, connect the motor ∆∆ and program the VFD to output 132 volts at 60 HZ.

P.S. The two lines between the top row of 3 terminals in the lower right-hand drawing are jumpers. Usually brass, and there are 3 of them. Even though only two are needed for the YY connection, don't throw the third one away, you'll need it if you need to connect for ∆∆. Just stack two jumpers on one pair of terminals.


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## l0sts0ul (May 7, 2011)

Ok, got a spec today from the engineer. The vfd and motor speced at 230v. 


I think they are screwed.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

l0sts0ul said:


> Ok, got a spec today from the engineer. The vfd and motor speced at 230v.
> 
> 
> I think they are screwed.


Not excatally screwed but I did look at the PDF file on general specs and it can be used between 200-240 volts 50/60 HZ source but for output programmings you will have to make sure you are dailed on 230 volts in Double wye format as you see on connection nameplate and that is 12 lead connection which I am used to it. ( you can run on 208 volts output but the V/HZ ratio will not be the best so keep to 230 volts if possible )

And I did catch the service factor is pretty tight on this one ( 1.0 SF )

Merci,
Marc


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

The VFD does not care one bit what the incoming frequency is, all it does is convert it to DC.

The VFD can produce any output frequency you tell it to, at any voltage you tell it to, up to and including the *maximum incoming line voltage*. It cannot create voltage that is not there.

A motor will produce full rated torque as long as the ratio of voltage and frequency (V/Hz ratio) is the same as what the motor is originally designed for.

Put all this together and the BEST option available to you is to use the 200V 50Hz connection pattern for the motor, then the engineer can program the VFD to put out 200V at 50Hz, and all is good and right for that motor. It will provide full torque as it was designed for. Mixers are torque critical loads.

If they insist on using the 230V 60Hz connection pattern, the problem will be that the VFD will NOT be able to put out 230V, because the input is only 208V. So the motor will lose torque compared to what it was designed for, which means increased slip, more current draw at less work and ultimately an early demise. if they insist, you should use a buck/boost transformer in front of the drive to boost to 230V input.


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## theloop82 (Aug 18, 2011)

You could put in a buck-boost transformer to get the VFD input voltage up to 230. Added cost and install time, but if it saves the customer having to deal with shipping the stuff back it would probably be worth it.

We did this all the time when we got weird medical instruments from germany or something.


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