# Automatic Generator 120/240v



## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

Use a 20kw and do a little load shedding, how are you heating the house? Gas or electric??


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## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

propane heat, central ac, electric dryer/hot water heater, no sump or well. How do I load shed these circuts? I have never done a stand alone generator, thanks


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Are you an electrician? Do a load calc, and if the homeowners can do without laundry, AC, and the range during a storm you could run that house on a 5kw. If they want to live normally it will take a 15 or a 20kw and will suck down propane like an Irishman sucks down beer on st patty's day.


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## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

Ok commando, If you read the code book then you would see article 700.5. To me this means that you need to size the generator according to the size of the service. OR do I go by 220.87? which means to me that you can size the generator by the load calc., and actual current draw. And yes I am an electrician, and no I do not know everything.:notworthy:


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Article 700 covers emergency systems & if you look at the definitions in 700.2, you'll see that these are legally mandated systems. These systems are not required for a dwelling.

Take a look at Article 702, Optional Standby Systems, specifically 702.4(B)(2) which would require you to supply the entire load (probably less than the service disconnecting means)unless there is some means of automatic load shedding.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

deanos said:


> Ok commando, If you read the code book then you would see article 700.5. To me this means that you need to size the generator according to the size of the service. OR do I go by 220.87? which means to me that you can size the generator by the load calc., and actual current draw. And yes I am an electrician, and no I do not know everything.:notworthy:


Didn't mean to insult you man. We just get a lot of homeowners on here fishing for free info. In homes, the genny has to be sized to serve the load, so it has to be big enough to handle the load calc of the house. So if your load calc is 83 amps, but there is a 200a service, it only has to big enough to handle the 83 amps, if you are doing a whole house transfer switch.


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## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

So, all I need to do is a load calc? can I use a dranits meter on "a" phase and record the kw for the month as a back up, or am I wasting my time? Thanks guys, I never put a stand alone gen. in before. 702.5 b 2 seems like overkill


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

deanos said:


> So, all I need to do is a load calc? can I use a dranits meter on "a" phase and record the kw for the month as a back up, or am I wasting my time? Thanks guys, I never put a stand alone gen. in before. 702.5 b 2 seems like overkill


702 is overkill because its meant for emergency generator systems in hospitals and industrial installations and the like. It doesn't apply to resi standby units. Do your load calc, size the genny for that, and call it a day. You can also save on genny size if you get a transfer switch with load shedding and have the AC connected to that, so the AC will only run if there is enough power to run it so it won't stall out the generator. You could also do a basic generac ATS, which let's you choose the circuits run by the generator, but the homeowner wouldn't have the dryer, range, or AC in that case.


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## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks commando, I think I will call the ahj for the town and see what he wants. The guy wants the entire home on automatic transfer so I can either put a dam 40k gen in, or do the load clac and relay the AC compressor and fan. Why am I an electrician....why..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Can someone tell me why the "CODE" sticks their nose into a product that already protects itself....

The generators come with OCP.. if you exceed the rated load allowed.. the circuit breaker opens... WOW... 

Do we really need the "CODE" to protect the generator when there already protection from the factory... :blink::blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> 702 is overkill because its meant for emergency generator systems in hospitals and industrial installations and the like. It doesn't apply to resi standby units. Do your load calc, size the genny for that, and call it a day. You can also save on genny size if you get a transfer switch with load shedding and have the AC connected to that, so the AC will only run if there is enough power to run it so it won't stall out the generator. You could also do a basic generac ATS, which let's you choose the circuits run by the generator, but the homeowner wouldn't have the dryer, range, or AC in that case.


Look at the FPN..

*702.2 Definition.
Optional Standby Systems.* Those systems intended to supply
power to public or private facilities or property where
life safety does not depend on the performance of the system.
Optional standby systems are intended to supply onsite
generated power to selected loads either automatically
or manually.
*Informational Note: *Optional standby systems are typically
installed to provide an alternate source of electric
power for such facilities as industrial and commercial
buildings, farms, and *residences *and to serve loads such as
heating and refrigeration systems, data processing and communications
systems, and industrial processes that, when
stopped during any power outage, could cause discomfort,
serious interruption of the process, damage to the product
or process, or the like.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

deanos,

Was the house were you grew up located under high voltage lines? :laughing:

Talk to one of the home improvement experts at your local Home Depot or Lowes. They can explain how to do this and provide you with all of the materials required to complete the project. 

:thumbup:



-picch- :jester:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*this*

i'd put this one in. It has smart technology and does automatic load shedding. 

http://www.homestandbygeneratorsystems.com/products/horizontal/17kW Home Generator System/

YOu can still go 20+ but why


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## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

Just because I never wired a stand alone generator means I have brain damage??? CT shock hazard,:no: thats what you should put on your truck. Havent seen u in a while Markie, I see your still a smart ass.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Can someone tell me why the "CODE" sticks their nose into a product that already protects itself....
> 
> The generators come with OCP.. if you exceed the rated load allowed.. the circuit breaker opens... WOW...
> 
> Do we really need the "CODE" to protect the generator when there already protection from the factory... :blink::blink:


The manafacturers Of the generators pushed for this. They said in some circumstances the breaker will not protect the generator.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mistake


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

> *702.2 Definition.
> Optional Standby Systems.* Those systems intended to supply
> power to public or private facilities or property where
> life safety does not depend on the performance of the system.
> ...


NO!! Not discomfort??? 
We are Americans! No way in hell we will tolerate that! :laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm sorry, the word "discomfort" should NOT be anywhere in the NEC.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> I'm sorry, the word "discomfort" should NOT be anywhere in the NEC.


Informational notes are not code so it is not 'in the NEC' it is in the book, but not in the code. 


Does that ease your own discomfort? :jester:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Informational notes are not code so it is not 'in the NEC' it is in the book, but not in the code.
> 
> 
> Does that ease your own discomfort? :jester:


To ease discomfort take a sh1t.:laughing:


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

CTshockhazard said:


> Was the house were you grew up located under high voltage lines?





deanos said:


> Just because I never wired a stand alone generator means I have brain damage???


Come on now deanos:whistling2:, was just supposed to be a wise crack, blast-from-the-past.

How many apprentices did we ask that question?? :laughing::jester:

We both know why you have brain damage!:blink:



deanos said:


> I see your still a smart ass.


:thumbup:



deanos said:


> CT shock hazard,:no: thats what you should put on your truck.


Nah, I run stealth in an unmarked white van.:shifty:



Seriously, hope all is well with you and the family.:thumbsup:

Call anytime, always willing to help you out. Except in this thread apparently.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The manafacturers Of the generators pushed for this. They said in some circumstances the breaker will not protect the generator.


Im cconfused. Then whats the breaker for?


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