# Single-pole breakers and handle ties



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Looked at a rental the other day that had 8 1-pole breakers for a panel. The rental inspector said it needed a main. So I thought I would just pop on some handle-ties and bring the number of operations down to 4 to easily and inexpensively satisfy 230.71(A).

After calling the inspector, he said handle-ties are only allowed on MWBCs. I see where they are _specifically permitted_ on MWBCs per 230.71(B), but I cannot find a reference that _disallows _them on a pair of 2-wire 120v circuits. He insists they must share a neutral in order to be 'legal' to use a handle-tie.

What say you?

Another evil thought: Tie the two neutrals together in the panel to a pigtail to the neutral bar. Bam: Instant MWBC!


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Looked at a rental the other day that had 8 1-pole breakers for a panel. The rental inspector said it needed a main. So I thought I would just pop on some handle-ties and bring the number of operations down to 4 to easily and inexpensively satisfy 230.71(A).
> 
> After calling the inspector, he said handle-ties are only allowed on MWBCs. I see where they are _specifically permitted_ on MWBCs per 230.71(B), but I cannot find a reference that _disallows _them on a pair of 2-wire 120v circuits. He insists they must share a neutral in order to be 'legal' to use a handle-tie.
> 
> ...


What neutral does a 240 volt well pump share? Or an electric water heater? Rarely would I use a pair of single pole 30s for the WH, but I have. I've tied circuits together for interlock reasons too. Come to think of it, I think I've done it to make the six rule.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The inspector is wrong. I can use a dp breaker to feed one 120V circuit and leave one side dead or I can use both poles for 2- 120V circuits.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The inspector is wrong. I can use a dp breaker to feed one 120V circuit and leave one side dead or I can use both poles for 2- 120V circuits.



This isn't a 2-pole breaker. It's two 1-poles with a handle-tie.

I'm reading both the NEC and the UL White Book... both _permit_ handle ties for MWBCs, but neither _limits_ them to that use.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Has the inspector cited a specific part of the code that was violated? I suspect not, since there isn't one........

But unless there is an authority that can overrule him, you might be stuck with his erroneous opinion. Similar to a home inspector.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I haven't gotten an answer to the Code reference question. If he presses the issue, I'll just tell him I will pull the two neutrals off the neutral bar, wire-nut them together with a pigtail, and BAM!: Instant MWBC! :laughing:


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I haven't gotten an answer to the Code reference question. If he presses the issue, I'll just tell him I will pull the two neutrals off the neutral bar, wire-nut them together with a pigtail, and BAM!: Instant MWBC! :laughing:


Near as I can tell, that would be completely compliant.


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

When the inspector is right, the inspector is right.
When the inspector is wrong, the inspector is right.
That's life in the big city.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> This isn't a 2-pole breaker. It's two 1-poles with a handle-tie.
> 
> I'm reading both the NEC and the UL White Book... both _permit_ handle ties for MWBCs, but neither _limits_ them to that use.


I realize these are handle ties on sp breakers. I was stating that I can land two 120 volt circuits on a dp breaker and it is compliant so why can't you use sp breakers with ties. It is not an issue IMO.


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Looked at a rental the other day that had 8 1-pole breakers for a panel. The rental inspector said it needed a main. So I thought I would just pop on some handle-ties and bring the number of operations down to 4 to easily and inexpensively satisfy 230.71(A).
> 
> After calling the inspector, he said handle-ties are only allowed on MWBCs. I see where they are _specifically permitted_ on MWBCs per 230.71(B), but I cannot find a reference that _disallows _them on a pair of 2-wire 120v circuits. He insists they must share a neutral in order to be 'legal' to use a handle-tie.
> 
> ...





I will look at the 6 CB pulls for a service without a main forever different now .
Just never thought of it like that ... hmmm...12 circuits .




Pete


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Is this a battle worth fighting? For me (because of my personality, yes).

Is it a big deal to just put the main in? Cost too much? 

If not, I think I would put it in and move on from that job, but ...... maintain the fight. :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Is this a battle worth fighting? For me (because of my personality, yes).
> 
> Is it a big deal to just put the main in? Cost too much?
> 
> If not, I think I would put it in and move on from that job, but ...... maintain the fight. :laughing:


The panel won't accept a main. Replacing the panel invokes a complete rewire of the house. KaChing!

I can't just 'put it in'.... it requires an inspection.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> The panel won't accept a main. Replacing the panel invokes a complete rewire of the house. KaChing!
> 
> I can't just 'put it in'.... it requires an inspection.


Well then, :boxing::wallbash:




carry on. :laughing:


Good luck and please let us know the outcome.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I've come across whole developments using ML panels and double pole breakers to maintain 6throws. I've done it myself in detached buildings. Perfectly legit.

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

its late, had a hard day. whats teh difference if you land 2 neutrals on 2 screws or 1 pigtailed neutral on 1 screw?:blink::blink:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

papaotis said:


> its late, had a hard day. whats teh difference if you land 2 neutrals on 2 screws or 1 pigtailed neutral on 1 screw?:blink::blink:


The latter is a MWBC.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I've come across whole developments using ML panels and double pole breakers to maintain 6throws. I've done it myself in detached buildings. * Perfectly legit.*
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


It really wasn't prior to the 2014 code. The disconnect rule in Article 225, prior to the 2014 code, required that the second building disconnect be suitable for use as service equipment. Most panels are listed as suitable for use as service equipment only where they have a single main breaker installed.


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Looked at a rental the other day that had 8 1-pole breakers for a panel. The rental inspector said it needed a main. So I thought I would just pop on some handle-ties and bring the number of operations down to 4 to easily and inexpensively satisfy 230.71(A).
> 
> After calling the inspector, he said handle-ties are only allowed on MWBCs. I see where they are _specifically permitted_ on MWBCs per 230.71(B), but I cannot find a reference that _disallows _them on a pair of 2-wire 120v circuits. He insists they must share a neutral in order to be 'legal' to use a handle-tie.
> 
> ...


What would your inspector say about two dedicated circuits ( not mwbc) going to the same yolk


----------



## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

First off its perfectly legit to have line-line connected loads with handle ties, second other than the listing of the panelbaord (suitable as service equipment) I see nothing wrong. 

Id fight this, because its just ignorance.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

IIRC, isn't the rule: Six Throws to de-energize a Service?

I think this, historically, got started with 19th Century fire marshals who insisted that the entire structure be de-energized in less than sixty-seconds.

The knife switches of that era took about ten-seconds to throw, or there abouts.

The idea of a MAIN OCPD ahead of more than six (branch) circuits came along, belatedly. 

So, the six-throws rule would mean that handle-ties gets 'r done!:thumbup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

This leads me to another question.

If the inspector will only allow 2-pole breakers on MWBCs, how am I to wire things like electric water heaters and AC compressors?


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Now I want to get a bunch of the metal handle ties and weld them together and make one giant handle tie for an entire side of the panel.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

erics37 said:


> Now I want to get a bunch of the metal handle ties and weld them together and make one giant handle tie for an entire side of the panel.


Around here, they don't enforce the idiotic handle tie rule, but the first time they do, I'm going to tie every handle on each side together. 

It'd be easy with Square D.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> This leads me to another question.
> 
> If the inspector will only allow 2-pole breakers on MWBCs, how am I to wire things like electric water heaters and AC compressors?


I think Ken is part attorney. :laughing:


----------

