# bending aluminum conduit



## electricity (May 11, 2011)

Hey guys trying to find some hand benders for aluminum conduit. i have a 3/4" and a 1" thats about 10 years old. and haven't had any luck finding any more...any suggestions???


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## HugoStiglitz (Apr 11, 2011)

electricity said:


> Hey guys trying to find some hand benders for aluminum conduit. i have a 3/4" and a 1" thats about 10 years old. and haven't had any luck finding any more...any suggestions???


What the difference between an aluminum bender and an EMT/rigid bender?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

HugoStiglitz said:


> What the difference between an aluminum bender and an EMT/rigid bender?


Are you inferring that 1 in pipe is the same OD if it's AL, steel or PVC?:whistling2::laughing: Wouldn't an aluminum bender be, well aluminum?


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## Pompadour (Mar 19, 2011)

i did not know that there were special shoes for aluminum conduit.


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## HugoStiglitz (Apr 11, 2011)

backstay said:


> Are you inferring that 1 in pipe is the same OD if it's AL, steel or PVC?:whistling2::laughing:


No I'm asking what's different. Never seen one before, I'm guessing the bend radius is different since aluminum has different mechanical properties than steel.


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## qckrun (May 18, 2009)

Pompadour said:


> i did not know that there were special shoes for aluminum conduit.


 From my understanding there are different shoes for aluminum and stainless steel conduit.

Along with different threading dies.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

HugoStiglitz said:


> No I'm asking what's different. Never seen one before, I'm guessing the bend radius is different since aluminum has different mechanical properties than steel.


Just kidding you.

*Greenlee 1818 Mechanical Bender for EMT, IMC, Rigid and Aluminum Conduit*


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

It's all the same for galv or AL.
Same diameter, same benders, same dies.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

If it is different we've been screwing up by bending it just like steel rigid.... :whistling2:

-John


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## HugoStiglitz (Apr 11, 2011)

qckrun said:


> From my understanding there are different shoes for aluminum and stainless steel conduit.
> 
> Along with different threading dies.


I've threaded 1-1/2 aluminum with a standard 12R Pony/tri vise setup with no problem.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Big John said:


> If it is different we've been screwing up by bending it just like steel rigid.... :whistling2:
> 
> -John


Ditto!

Al is nice and light. Strap wrenches only to stay pretty! I hate how the aluminum turns hands, gloves, carhartts black

GRC is nice in the fact that it is bullet proof, and you can do ALMOST anything to it, pretty forgiving in being able to cover up "ugly marks" that "happen".


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## Pompadour (Mar 19, 2011)

qckrun said:


> From my understanding there are different shoes for aluminum and stainless steel conduit.
> 
> Along with different threading dies.


maybe, but no company that i have ever worked for has ever sent them out if they had them. i did not know of them, so they were never missed.

i have had to press companies hard to get PVC coated rigid shoes and pieces for the threader.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Pompadour said:


> maybe, but no company that i have ever worked for has ever sent them out if they had them. i did not know of them, so they were never missed.
> 
> i have had to press companies hard to get PVC coated rigid shoes and pieces for the threader.


If you're at "a big boys shop" and they won't get the stuff you need, will your material guy send stuff out to be milled 40 over, or whatever size coating your robroy/ocal is? Kind of a backwards way of doing things, but it saves you big on time in the sum total of the project.:whistling2:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Fwiw- I use the PVC shoes to bend aluminum. Keeps from scratching it all up. Regular shoes put scratches in it.

Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


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## electricity (May 11, 2011)

im not talking about an aluminum shoe for say a greenlee quad bender or smart bender. Im talking about an actual hand bender just like and emt bender except it has a tighter radius and it actually fits aluminum conduit


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## electricity (May 11, 2011)

tkb said:


> It's all the same for galv or AL.
> Same diameter, same benders, same dies.


 See thats where you obviously have no clue what you are doing??


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electricity said:


> Im talking about an actual hand bender just like and emt bender except it has a tighter radius and it actually fits aluminum conduit


I have never seen nor heard of such an animal.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electricity said:


> See thats where you obviously have no clue what you are doing??


Ease up there newbie.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

electricity said:


> See thats where you obviously have no clue what you are doing??


Actually it's you that has no clue. It's most defiantly the same, it's all rigid conduit, whether it's steel, aluminum, red brass, whatever, it's all rigid conduit. I use the same dies and benders, including hand benders on it all.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

There is a 3/4 AL bender at the shop somewhere, I've never used it but I have seen it.
I always bend it just like RMC, 1" emt bender for 3/4 so on and so forth. There are no special shoes for our smart bender either, RMC, IMC, and AL take the same shoe.
I hate working with the stuff. It dries my hands out to the point of cracking if I'm on it for more than a day or two and it's a PITA to make it look good. It seems like if you blow on it hard enough it gets tweaked.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

electricity said:


> See thats where you obviously have no clue what you are doing??


So instead of being an ahole, prove me wrong.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

electricity said:


> See thats where you obviously have no clue what you are doing??


Been do this kind of work long?:blink::laughing::laughing: Your profile vs the post have me going:confused1: (there wasn't any WTF smilies)


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## Frank Mc (Nov 7, 2010)

Hi Guys

Aluminum conduit ...???....We only have gal steel conduit... So what determines which type of conduit you have to use in an installation...

Thanks
Frank


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Frank Mc said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Aluminum conduit ...???....We only have gal steel conduit... So what determines which type of conduit you have to use in an installation...
> 
> ...


No code rule, just a design choice.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Frank Mc said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Aluminum conduit ...???....We only have gal steel conduit... So what determines which type of conduit you have to use in an installation...
> 
> ...


The environment, galvanized steel won't last in every environment. Aluminum is commonly used for systems that operate a 400 Hz and above systems too.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

tkb said:


> It's all the same for galv or AL.
> Same diameter, same benders, same dies.





electricity said:


> See thats where you obviously have no clue what you are doing??


I have worked with TKB, he knows what he is doing.

You on the other hand have been misinformed, the benders, the threaders, the fittings for AL RMC are all the same.

Or do you think you need to order special boxes with 'AL sized' hubs in them?


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## sparkymcwiresalot (Jan 29, 2011)

I hate pulling wire in aluminum. I always oversize pipe when I have to use it.


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## wil335 (Feb 15, 2011)

Frank Mc said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Aluminum conduit ...???....We only have gal steel conduit... So what determines which type of conduit you have to use in an installation...
> 
> ...


In Hawaii, corrosion is accelerated due to the salt in the air. GRC doesn't last as long, especially when you start cutting and threading. Aluminum is the choice at the previous and current facility I work at. It doesn't rust, it's easy to cut, thread & bend. The only thing different I do for aluminum, is that I use anti-seize or joint compound on the threads. It makes it easier to screw together and it prevents it from galling.

I don't use any tools being special for aluminum. Benders and threaders are the same for GRC.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> No code rule, just a design choice.


 It's a loose code rule, but 344.10(A)(3) says care must be taken with aluminum in certain environments. 

For example, we can't use aluminum rigid in direct contact with the concrete of the dams, the minerals that leach out of the concrete with the seepage just corrode the heck out of the aluminum; significantly more than GRC.

-John


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Big John said:


> It's a loose code rule, but 344.10(A)(3) says care must be taken with aluminum in certain environments.
> 
> For example, we can't use aluminum rigid in direct contact with the concrete of the dams, the minerals that leach out of the concrete with the seepage just corrode the heck out of the aluminum; significantly more than GRC.
> 
> -John


300.6 has good commentary also as to protection requirements (with regard to conatact to earth).


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> It's a loose code rule, but 344.10(A)(3) says care must be taken with aluminum in certain environments.
> 
> For example, we can't use aluminum rigid in direct contact with the concrete of the dams, the minerals that leach out of the concrete with the seepage just corrode the heck out of the aluminum; significantly more than GRC.
> 
> -John


110.3(A) basically requires that of all products.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Do you still require a spring when bending EMT and Alu? I've only ever used PVC over here, very rarely seen metallic conduits at all and only seen heavy steel pipe used in industrial settings.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

chewy said:


> Do you still require a spring when bending EMT and Alu? I've only ever used PVC over here, very rarely seen metallic conduits at all and only seen heavy steel pipe used in industrial settings.


Are you talking about a spring stuck inside of the pipe, only during the bending process? If that is what you are asking...no spring required for metal pipes.

With metal pipe, you over-bend just a bit for "spring back" Most 90 degree bends are bent to 92 to 94 degrees, and the pipe "springs back" to 90 degrees


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Rockyd said:


> Are you talking about a spring stuck inside of the pipe, only during the bending process? If that is what you are asking...no spring required for metal pipes.
> 
> With metal pipe, you over-bend just a bit for "spring back" Most 90 degree bends are bent to 92 to 94 degrees, and the pipe "springs back" to 90 degrees


Yeah, that's what i meant. Cheers


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

tkb said:


> So instead of being an ahole, prove me wrong.


Here you go. You can bend a 8 1/2" 90 with these. GRS fits in it also but it doesn't have the leverage a 1" EMT bender has. The majority of pipe that we run above ground is aluminum.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Kris Davis said:


> Here you go. You can bend a 8 1/2" 90 with these. GRS fits in it also but it doesn't have the leverage a 1" EMT bender has. The majority of pipe that we run above ground is aluminum.


I think you need to start working out and bulk up. 
It's not the tool, it may be the operator.
Don't blame the tool. It is rated for 1" EMT and 3/4" GRS so it will bend 3/4" AL.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

The one on the left is made for 1" aluminum. The one in the middle is made for 3/4" alum and IMC it bends a much tighter radius than a 1" Emt/ 3/4" rigid bender which has a 8" deduct. The greenlee site-rite no 854 has a deduct of 5 3/8". The site-rite 854 was probally discontinued sometime in the early 80's(back when you were still in diapers.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

If anybody has one of the greenlee site-rite no 854 lying around let me know. We would like a couple more of them


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Kris Davis said:


> The one on the left is made for 1" aluminum. The one in the middle is made for 3/4" alum and IMC it bends a much tighter radius than a 1" Emt/ 3/4" rigid bender which has a 8" deduct. The greenlee site-rite no 854 has a deduct of 5 3/8". The site-rite 854 was probally discontinued sometime in the early 80's(back when you were still in diapers.


Those are all EMT benders that can also be used for IMC, RGS and Al conduits.
Each manufacturer of benders use a different radius.

1/2" benders only fit 1/2" EMT
3/4" benders fit 3/4" EMT & 1/2" IMC, GRC and Al
1" benders fit 1" EMT & 3/4" IMC, GRC and AL

By the way, when I was in diapers Dwight D. Eisenhower was the president.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

I remember why I don't post on these boards. To many people think they know everything because they have been there and done that and seen it all.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

tkb said:


> Those are all EMT benders that can also be used for IMC, RGS and Al conduits.
> Each manufacturer of benders use a different radius.
> 
> 1/2" benders only fit 1/2" EMT
> ...


Must be the same age:thumbsup:

Damn young whipper snappers better learn some respect for their elders.

Eat your Wheaties this morning?

Lets go school up that whippersnapper!:jester:
.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

Rockyd said:


> Must be the same age:thumbsup:
> 
> Damn young whipper snappers better learn some respect for their elders.
> 
> ...


Translation of above:

"I am an old Oger that is never wrong also.
Lets go smell each others gas and drink some Pabs blue ribbon."
Here is a picture of the greenlee site-rite no 854 with a piece of 1" in it. When I tried to force it onto the shoe it puts dents in the sides of the conduit


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Kris Davis said:


> Translation of above:
> 
> I am an old Oger is is never wrong also.
> Keys go smell each others gas and drink some Pabs blue ribbon.
> Here is a picture of the greenlee site-rite no 854 with a piece of 1" in it. When I tried to force it onto the shoe it puts dents in the sides of the conduit


Back away from the keyboard! Last day of the world today...So skippin on the PBR, and reachin for a Corona instead! Breathe in, Breathe out...only funnin:jester:


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Kris Davis said:


> Translation of above:
> 
> I am an old Oger is is never wrong also.
> Keys go smell each others gas and drink some Pabs blue ribbon.
> Here is a picture of the greenlee site-rite no 854 with a piece of 1" in it. When I tried to force it onto the shoe it puts dents in the sides of the conduit


I looked at your photos a little closer and I now see that the benders say they are for AL conduit.

I have never seen these specific benders.
You must have found them from someone that trained with Thomas Edison.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Kris Davis said:


> I remember why I don't post on these boards. To many people think they know everything because they have been there and done that and seen it all.


It's a shame you feel this way Kris. 
You must work alone a lot because these boards are not that far off of real life. 
Just sayin'. :whistling2:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm gonna keep right on bending Al with my regular benders or the 555 or the 1818. :yes:


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

We do work for a small company about 9 in the field. I get frustrated with guys who can't say "well I don't know" they would rather tell you anything instead of "well I don't know".


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

After googling the patent # the blue bender was probally made in the 60's.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Some tips that I self discovered about running larger aluminum conduit:

The "spring back" on aluminum, is considerably more than for steel. You may need to bend Alum. 4 or 5 degrees more than steel.

Aluminum conduit springs back a LOT slower than steel. A 4", one shot 90, can take 20 to 30 minutes to "spring back" to its final angle. It is best to lay the aluminum down and do something else for a few minutes until it creeps to it's final angle of bend.

Yes, you will get nasty running aluminum. 

On most benders, you will need to lubricate the bending shoe, to avoid the pipe sticking or distorting, with some sort of lubricant- Nolox works well.

ALWAYS use Nolox on aluminum threads. If you don't, it will seize before you can tighten the coupling or fitting and be impossible to take apart.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

varmit said:


> Some tips that I self discovered about running larger aluminum conduit:
> 
> .
> 
> Aluminum conduit springs back a LOT slower than steel. A 4", one shot 90, can take 20 to 30 minutes to "spring back" to its final angle. It is best to lay the aluminum down and do something else for a few minutes until it creeps to it's final angle of bend.


 
So, that's the rest of the story! I've thrown some aluminum up, had to come back and change some...pipe was "awnry" going back back in where I had taken it out. GRS wouldn't dream of that stunt....


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

We usually bend and throw it in. This is some that we put in about 7 years ago. I never noticed it springing back.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Kris Davis said:


> The one on the left is made for 1" aluminum. The one in the middle is made for 3/4" alum and IMC it bends a much tighter radius than a 1" Emt/ 3/4" rigid bender which has a 8" deduct. The greenlee site-rite no 854 has a deduct of 5 3/8". The site-rite 854 was probally discontinued sometime in the early 80's(back when you were still in diapers.


It looks to me like the bender marked Aluminum is just simply a larger radius bender and it was just marked aluminum. Im sure you could bend 1" rigid with it with no problem. 
I have been in the trade going on 30 years and have used regular benders to bend aluminum and never thought twice about it. THE OD IS THE SAME. 
I would lube the shoe one larger conduit and would maybe use yellow 77 or something less messy than nolox.

We had aluminum EMT here for a while, way before my time. My father was an electrician and he would tell me that some of the AL EMT was brittle and you could hit yourself in the nuts with the bender handle when it snapped.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Kris Davis said:


> We usually bend and throw it in. This is some that we put in about 7 years ago. I never noticed it springing back.


Isn't there a problem with disimalar metals using galv strut and AL conduit?

I did a similar job in a water treatment plant and we had to use either stainless or PVC coated hangers.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

tkb said:


> Isn't there a problem with disimalar metals using galv strut and AL conduit?


Depends on the environment, without an electrolyte not much is gonna happen, plus Al and zinc are close on the galvanic series so any corrosion would be minimal. 

Personally, if I have to run Al conduit (or copper process line for that matter) on steel strut I use cushioned strut clamps.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

The one marked 1" alum, GRS would fit in it. You would have to be pushing 300 lbs to bend 1" rigid with it. A 1.25" EMT hand bender has a much larger radius and more leverage with it's foot rest.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

jrannis said:


> It looks to me like the bender marked Aluminum is just simply a larger radius bender and it was just marked aluminum. Im sure you could bend 1" rigid with it with no problem.
> THE OD IS THE SAME.
> .


I never said the O D was different.

But bending 1" EMT with the 3/4" Alum bender is impossible.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

tkb said:


> Isn't there a problem with disimalar metals using galv strut and AL conduit?
> 
> I did a similar job in a water treatment plant and we had to use either stainless or PVC coated hangers.


Almost all of our work is in water and waste water plants. We always use stainless or alum strut and straps.

In those picture is a pipe gallery that is about 28' deep. There was 4' of flood waters in the floor above it. There was close to 40 sections of MCC submerged also.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

tkb said:


> Isn't there a problem with disimalar metals using galv strut and AL conduit?
> 
> I did a similar job in a water treatment plant and we had to use either stainless or PVC coated hangers.


I think that most all of us use aluminum condulets (LBs) with rigid steel conduit and EMT. Never noticed a problem in a normal environment.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

Kris Davis said:


> Almost all of our work is in water and waste water plants. We always use stainless or alum strut and straps.
> 
> In those picture is a pipe gallery that is about 28' deep. There was 4' of flood waters in the floor above it. There was close to 40 sections of MCC submerged also.


I hope that flooding was in a water plant.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

varmit said:


> I think that most all of us use aluminum condulets (LBs) with rigid steel conduit and EMT. Never noticed a problem in a normal environment.


Aluminum condulets have a coating on them and the NEC specificly allows it.
Aluminum conduit is raw aluminum.

I haven't seen much of a problem, but in treatment plant type work there are specs that try to prevent corrosion.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

tkb said:


> Aluminum condulets have a coating on them and the NEC specificly allows it.
> Aluminum conduit is raw aluminum.
> 
> I haven't seen much of a problem, but in treatment plant type work there are specs that try to prevent corrosion.


Most of the time we use PVC in chemical feed rooms and we will use OCAL in the Raw sewage areas.


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## Kris Davis (Nov 15, 2009)

Surely someone has another one of these benders. If anybody has a Greenlee site-rite no.854 I will pay top dollar for them. I know we don't have the only two ever made there has to be more of them put there.


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## Johnny Beavers (Jun 16, 2011)

Well, I tried bending some aluminum just the other day with the standard hand bender and it just was messy, I wonder if there is a different calculation for bending aluminum. It just didn't work out as good as steel conduit. Easy to bend!!


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