# Light at dead end 3-way



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Is there a way to install a light at a dead - end three-way?

I found a diagram but I’m unsure of it. 


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Here you go. :biggrin:


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

There is no Neutral.

This is old work on a long finished stairway in an older house. 

Problem is the current light fixture is all the way up top of a spiraling stairway and the bottom of the stairway stays dark.

No access at all, my only device is a dead end three-way which would be ideal to add a wall sconce right above it. 

Now that I think about it I might be able to do some rewiring and use a Lutron casetta 3-way Kit 




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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

If it's just the 3-wire at the bottom switch, you're still going to need a neutral, even with remote switches.


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## warrenmanne (Aug 25, 2018)

WronGun said:


> There is no Neutral.
> 
> do some rewiring and use a Lutron casetta 3-way Kit


Ive been going this route recently when difficult 3-way situations are requested by my customers. 

Your diagram shows the new light in series with the existing light. It will turn on, but they will be dim. And you cant use anything but an incandescent with that set up. 

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## warrenmanne (Aug 25, 2018)

Kawicrash said:


> If it's just the 3-wire at the bottom switch, you're still going to need a neutral, even with remote switches.


That's a good point. Is the first 3-way working a switch leg? Or do you have a hot and neutral up top?

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

As warrenmanne mentioned, the illustration you posted has both of those lights in series, no good.

This should be very easy to do if you change from a 3-way switching system to a normal switching system with remote switches. As you mentioned, the Lutron remote switches should work. 

I don't know much about them, but I am waiting for them to finally come out with remote switches that actually look and operate like switches. Not tiny little push-button remote controls.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Kawicrash said:


> If it's just the 3-wire at the bottom switch, you're still going to need a neutral, even with remote switches.


How about this: He installs a remote switch in the first switchbox, uses only 2 of the 3 wires to power the first and second light (spliced straight thru the first light box). In the second switchbox he has just a remote, no wires on that switch.

I think Lutron makes something that will do that. Like a Pico in the second switchbox. Not sure though...


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

WronGun said:


> Is there a way to install a light at a dead - end three-way?
> 
> I found a diagram but I’m unsure of it.
> 
> ...


Really? No offense but this is the type of question I would expect to see in a DIY forum, not here.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

eddy current said:


> Really? No offense but this is the type of question I would expect to see in a DIY forum, not here.




This is a picture from a random site, I didn’t draw it. Didn’t make sense to me, but seemed to work for the person who posted it. 

Regardless, I’ve figured to reconfigure wiring to make the dead-end 3-way Wiring an additional lighting load up to the sconce. 

Then install Lutron casetta / pico / wall kit 




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## Ctsparky93 (Sep 17, 2016)

WronGun said:


> This is a picture from a random site, I didn’t draw it. Didn’t make sense to me, but seemed to work for the person who posted it.
> 
> Regardless, I’ve figured to reconfigure wiring to make the dead-end 3-way Wiring and additional lighting load up to the sconce.
> 
> ...




It would work but the lights would be in series and be a lot dimmer then normal. Which is a bad idea to do. Lights get wired in parallel. Won’t work with all bulbs types. Just do as hack wrote easy simple done


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

eddy current said:


> WronGun said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a way to install a light at a dead - end three-way?
> ...


 I can't zoom in on that pic on my phone, are they saying to bond the neutral to the box? It would work, but that ain't right...
There is another product I can't think of the name right now that might work.
Edit: I found it. May be able to do it with these. A bit of rewiring and it might do it?? I've never installed one, so I'm not familliar with the details, but if you put the module upstairs and the remote switch down possibly?

https://goconex.com/wirefree-switches-homeowners-consumers/


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

WronGun said:


> This is a picture from a *random site*, I didn’t draw it. Didn’t make sense to me, but seemed to work for the person who posted it.
> 
> Regardless, I’ve figured to reconfigure wiring to make the dead-end 3-way Wiring an additional lighting load up to the sconce.
> 
> ...


Www.buildmyowncabin.com
'nuff said. 

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun, this is the closest thing I have found to real switches:

https://www.amazon.com/RunLessWire-...N0FM/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1545384548&sr=8-4

They use Enocean wireless technology and they are nice because the switches to not need batteries. They create a charge when you press the button. They look like normal switches but they operate push-button style, you press the top or bottom and it pops back out. The end result is the same and customers like it more than the Pico remote. 

You can add 25 remote switches to each receiver. Not sure how many receivers, but I know you can add more than 1.

In your situation, you would just remove the existing switches, put a receiver in the switchbox and then the remote switch over the top of it. Hardwire the existing light using 2 wires from the first switchbox and pass the feed thru to the second switchbox. Run that feed to your new light and put the second remote switch in the second switchbox.

OR, you can run a constant hot to the new light and use a second receiver to switch it, not needing to come out of that switchbox anymore.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> WronGun, this is the closest thing I have found to real switches:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I’ve used these for jobs where we were in places where aesthetics really mattered , they are a great product. 

I’m starting to realize more and more clients are learning about smart capabilities and now I’m even starting to get questioned “is it compatible with Alexa”. I always sell extra pico remotes because people want them on their nightstands, etc. I feel like the casetta is superior.

The magnetic charges that these runless ones create is a very cool technology, I’ve installed tons of AceGoo models for clients looking for a cheaper solution. These use the same technology and are very reliable but cost $20-$30. Only issue is the switch is not normal looking. 

Not to change subject but, I recently tried a WiFi line voltage tstat a few weeks ago which has also been a rare product to find that’s reliable. It’s been working great 

Mysa Smart Thermostat for Electric Baseboard Heaters https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075VBP42M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_y4RiCbH0XWJ3C



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