# Hot Tub disconnect question



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

No, you can't. A lot of new hot tubs don't require a neutral. Are you positve your's does?


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## mojo_jumper (Dec 2, 2010)

yes, there is a lug for a neutral in the panel. As well as a tag on the outside door that says 4-wire 220v.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Your gonna have to rewire it. The 6-2 w/ground is not going to cut it. The nuetral and grounded can only be bonded at the main.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

What you are considering is dangerous and illegal. If I caught you doing that I would turn you into the state.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I assume you mean 6/3 without ground.


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## mojo_jumper (Dec 2, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I assume you mean 6/3 without ground.


no, sorry. its 6/2 with ground.


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## mojo_jumper (Dec 2, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> Your gonna have to rewire it. The 6-2 w/ground is not going to cut it. The nuetral and grounded can only be bonded at the main.


well, i have a 200A main service outside. This feeds a 125A sub in the garage. the N and Gr are bonded at the subpanel. The 50A disconnect for the hot tub is fed from the main outside.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Well that's not good.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mojo_jumper said:


> well, i have a 200A main service outside. This feeds a 125A sub in the garage. the N and Gr are bonded at the subpanel. The 50A disconnect for the hot tub is fed from the main outside.


The neutral and ground should not be bonded at the subpanel.


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## mojo_jumper (Dec 2, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The neutral and ground should not be bonded at the subpanel.


OK, I just verified the sub is NOT bonded w/ ground. It was dark in there. it looked like it was not isolated. I do have 50A range circuit on the same wall as the hot tub. I think im going to abandon the 6/2 that currently feeds the disconnect and use the range circuit to power the tub. and NO the range circuit is not being used. there is a gas range being used.


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## wayne g (Nov 28, 2010)

You need 3 insulated and 1 bare to meet the NEC.

Forget about this 6/2 romex were did this even come from ? :blink:


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## Elec Tek07 (Sep 19, 2010)

If the lights are 120 volts then it needs to have a insulated groung. Also you should have a equipotential bonding grid if you are on brick pavers, concrete, ground, ect.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Elec Tek07 said:


> If the lights are 120 volts then it needs to have a insulated groung. Also you should have a equipotential bonding grid if you are on brick pavers, concrete, ground, ect.


Really? Code reference?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

sparks134 said:


> Really? Code reference?


 

What's wrong with his statement?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> What's wrong with his statement?


Where is the article to back it up. Art. 680.42(C) allows nm cable. This same article states that wiring to underwater luminaires shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33. Art. 680.23(B)(2) req. an insulated egc from the forming shell to the JB. 

It does not state that it must be insulated all the way, IMO. Plus if the light is LV as many of them are the insulated egc does not apply.

Now, that being said most tubs are requiring a full size egc-- this eliminates NM cable and will usually be insulated.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> Well that's not good.


It was most likely legal for his subpanel to be bonded when it was built.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> It was most likely legal for his subpanel to be bonded when it was built.


Unless it is a detached garage I doubt it was ever legal.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Unless it is a detached garage I doubt it was ever legal.




I have one now where the county is letting me bond the outside disconnect and the main lug panel inside. If they would not I would have to repull the existing 3 wire feeder. Many houses here are like that.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> I have one now where the county is letting me bond the outside disconnect and the main lug panel inside. If they would not I would have to repull the existing 3 wire feeder. Many houses here are like that.


Uh. Ok....Still not legal.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I have one now where the county is letting me bond the outside disconnect and the main lug panel inside. If they would not I would have to repull the existing 3 wire feeder. Many houses here are like that.


Yeah, they will let you here in some areas but it is not, IMO, legal. If you add a main service and make the main panel a sub panel then it is your responsibility to get it to code. I don't understand why they allow this.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yeah, they will let you here in some areas but it is not, IMO, legal. If you add a main service and make the main panel a sub panel then it is your responsibility to get it to code. I don't understand why they allow this.


Exactly. I would make sure that they failed it...You make an install safer and put money in your pocket...win/win


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yeah, they will let you here in some areas but it is not, IMO, legal. If you add a main service and make the main panel a sub panel then it is your responsibility to get it to code. I don't understand why they allow this.




This is only allowed on cases where the service entrance conductors(cable) is ran UN fused to the panel on the other side of the house. And on repairs to existing equipment. If a customer just wants to upgrade they will make you bring it up to code UNLESS it would require demolition to the house to do it. That is the inspectors call. I have called and asked what determines if we must change it and they will not say. It's a case by case basis.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> This is only allowed on cases where the service entrance conductor is ran un fused to the panel on the other side of the house. And on repairs to existing equipment. If a customer just wants to upgrade they will make you brink it up to code UNLESS it would require demolition to the house to do it. That is the inspectors call. I have called and asked what determines if we must chang it and they will not say. It's a case by case basis.


You must hate money...So you are allowing unfused conductors run through the entire house..I dont know whats worse.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

That will be my last post of the day, reading your posts make my head hurt.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Exactly. I would make sure that they failed it...You make an install safer and put money in your pocket...win/win



In most cases you would have to do demo a lot of walls or do something unattractive looking to add the new feeder. If it was legal when built it should be allowed to stay if it is not a safety hazzard IMO


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

NolaTigaBait said:


> You must hate money...So you are allowing unfused conductors run through the entire house..I dont know whats worse.



How much crack have you smoked today?:001_huh:

The original install from the late 60's early 70's. They used to run them unfused 80 plus feet from meter to FP PANELS..some with aluminum wiring too.
I'm adding a disconnect outside. Leaving the existing 3 wire feeder which was legal when installed. Legal then and safe enough for the AHJ where I am.:thumbsup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Where is the article to back it up. Art. 680.42(C) allows nm cable. This same article states that wiring to underwater luminaires shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33. Art. 680.23(B)(2) req. an insulated egc from the forming shell to the JB.
> 
> It does not state that it must be insulated all the way, IMO. Plus if the light is LV as many of them are the insulated egc does not apply.
> 
> Now, that being said most tubs are requiring a full size egc-- this eliminates NM cable and will usually be insulated.


 

Dennis, his reference was not to the lights. He was pointing out that if the tub had 120 volt lights, that the neutral IN THE FEEDER would need to be insulated.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> How much crack have you smoked today?:001_huh:
> 
> The original install from the late 60's early 70's. They used to run them unfused 80 plus feet from meter to FP PANELS..some with aluminum wiring too.
> I'm adding a disconnect outside. Leaving the existing 3 wire feeder which was legal when installed. Legal then and safe enough for the AHJ where I am.:thumbsup:


You didn't say anything about a disconnect until this post. But, thanks for playing.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

NolaTigaBait said:


> You didn't say anything about a disconnect until this post. But, thanks for playing.



Location: nc
Posts: 5,402

Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
Unless it is a detached garage I doubt it was ever legal.


I have one now where the county is letting me bond the outside* disconnect *and the main lug panel inside. If they would not I would have to repull the existing 3 wire feeder. Many houses here are like that.
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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I like 'compliant' rather than legal, legal makes me uncomfortable and nervous.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Location: nc
> Posts: 5,402
> 
> Default
> ...


:sleep1:...


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

You know I'm just breakin your balls?...right?


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