# Upside down panel



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Spark Master said:


> I'm replacing a NEMA3R panel. The feeds come up from the bottom, and are rather short. Can I just flip the guts of the panel?? & still be legit ?
> 
> The rain drip cover must obviously be up top. So it's not like I can flip the entire panel.


Does it have a MAIN C/B ?

Many MAIN C/Bs can't effectively be flipped in the field... as you'd have to almost totally rebuild them. When attempted, this usually blows up in your face.

The handle through HAS to be Up for power DOWN for off.

Unless it's left - right.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

The way that covers fit 3R panels, I doubt the guts can be inverted. Bring the feeds into some of those cheap setscrew connectors, add your length, then heatshrink and tape them up.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> The way that covers fit 3R panels, I doubt the guts can be inverted. *Bring the feeds into some of those cheap setscrew connectors, add your length, then heatshrink and tape them up*.


Agreed^

Sometimes we go to great lengths to avoid extending feeders, when it's really pretty damn easy and fast.

Normally I would use the splicer reducer style set screw barrel connectors and tape them up like RePhase said (rubber tape or mastic pads, not heat shrink). But recently I asked at my supply house and they had the Polaris style connectors from another brand for half price. These are even easier, no need to insulate.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

It's a MLO panel.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

I really wanted a 16/24 or 16/32 MLO 3R panel. 
All I can find is a 20/24 CHBR2024L125R or the SqD HOM2040L125PRB.

I reviewed the specs on both, and no where does it talk about mounting position or feeders.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Spark Master said:


> I really wanted a 16/24 or 16/32 MLO 3R panel.
> All I can find is a 20/24 CHBR2024L125R or the SqD HOM2040L125PRB.
> 
> I reviewed the specs on both, and no where does it talk about mounting position or feeders.


Get whatever panel you want and extend the feeders if necessary.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I've recently switched to heatshrink. I shrink the splice, then vinyl tape it by phase color. Looks like $1M but just $3.50.

Hack, are you saying that there's a Polaris-type insulated splice for under say $10?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Spark Master said:


> I really wanted a 16/24 or 16/32 MLO 3R panel.
> All I can find is a 20/24 CHBR2024L125R or the SqD HOM2040L125PRB.
> 
> I reviewed the specs on both, and no where does it talk about mounting position or feeders.


You'll usually find that the factory has ALREADY pre-punched mounting holes for such guts to be inverted.

Look for them.

The dead front will also be invertible.

Look for the mounting symmetry within the dead front.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> I've recently switched to heatshrink. I shrink the splice, then vinyl tape it by phase color. Looks like $1M but just $3.50.
> 
> Hack, are you saying that there's a Polaris-type insulated splice for under say $10?


Yes, the ones that do up to #2 were way below $10. I forget what the bigger ones were, but it was still a good price.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

telsa said:


> You'll usually find that the factory has ALREADY pre-punched mounting holes for such guts to be inverted.
> 
> Look for them.
> 
> ...


Invertible guts will ALWAYS have a dead front that can be flipped around or is intrinsically symmetrical across 180 degrees.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

telsa said:


> Invertible guts will ALWAYS have a dead front that can be flipped around or is intrinsically symmetrical across 180 degrees.


I was looking at home depot online pictures of Siemens PL series panels. The BUSS mounting doesn't appear to be symmetrical.... but it is only a picture.

Then the MURRY panel doesn't look symmetrical either. But it looks very similar to the Siemens panel.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Spark Master said:


> I was looking at home depot online pictures of Siemens PL series panels. The BUSS mounting doesn't appear to be symmetrical.... but it is only a picture.
> 
> Then the MURRY panel doesn't look symmetrical either. But it looks very similar to the Siemens panel.


You may have to screw into an alternate set of factory holes.

You'll see the same design flexibility with fused safety switches. 

Everyone (heavy duty, motor rated) in current production will have a provision to move the load side fuse jaws UP so that you can drop in J type fuses.

Since these fuses are more expensive, this is rarely performed in the field, but the chassis is designed for it to do so. You'll see J type fuses listed right on the sticker, too.

You're to look for 'extra holes' in the 3R can. They will look superfluous. They may well have 'button stickers' covering them so as to attain the 3R rating, but not always.

When you make the shift, these stickers have to be recovered and shifted, too.

Of course, no-one is to invert the guts of a safety switch. I mention this merely to illustrate how the NEMA players design flexibility into their stuff -- without a whole lot of fanfare. 

You're expected to know all of the above by way of your apprenticeship. Naturally, some knowledge falls through the cracks.

You could work for thirty-years and never witness a safety switch being reconfigured for J type fuses.

The ability of a MLO load center// panel to be inverted in the field is a fact you have to dig out of the fine print in the manufacturer's catalog// pdf... or you can figure it out for yourself. 

The process will be effortlessly easy, BTW, IF the factory designed it so.


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## Satchmoeddie (Oct 2, 2015)

Go buy the Square D farm & home double fed panel. My public utility lords and masters have an approved list of panels for service entrance and anything top fed costs a fortune, so I wind up getting a variance from the head of the "meter shop". I usually buy the Square D farm and home, and installing the barriers so the meter cannot be bypassed. You also need a flanged meter socket hole, so they can put the locking ring on it. They are bastards.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Satchmoeddie said:


> Go buy the Square D farm & home double fed panel. My public utility lords and masters have an approved list of panels for service entrance and anything top fed costs a fortune, so I wind up getting a variance from the head of the "meter shop". I usually buy the Square D farm and home, and installing the barriers so the meter cannot be bypassed. You also need a flanged meter socket hole, so they can put the locking ring on it. They are bastards.


I don't see anything in the OP about a meter. RePhase had the solution out of the gate. Clean, simple, everything else is keyboard chatter.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Most ressi panels can not be swapped around. Done it many times with commercial panels. 

Up here (Canada) we have that barrier between the service conductors and the rest of the panel so we can never swap them around. But we are allowed to mount them upside down


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Satchmoeddie said:


> Go buy the Square D farm & home double fed panel. My public utility lords and masters have an approved list of panels for service entrance and anything top fed costs a fortune, so I wind up getting a variance from the head of the "meter shop". I usually buy the Square D farm and home, and installing the barriers so the meter cannot be bypassed. You also need a flanged meter socket hole, so they can put the locking ring on it. They are bastards.


Welcome aboard!

We have a new player on deck!


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

eddy current said:


> Most ressi panels can not be swapped around. Done it many times with commercial panels.
> 
> Up here (Canada) we have that barrier between the service conductors and the rest of the panel so we can never swap them around. But we are allowed to mount them upside down


With the labels printed both ways, one could argue there is no upside-down!


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Satchmoeddie said:


> Go buy the Square D farm & home double fed panel. My public utility lords and masters have an approved list of panels for service entrance and anything top fed costs a fortune, so I wind up getting a variance from the head of the "meter shop". I usually buy the Square D farm and home, and installing the barriers so the meter cannot be bypassed. You also need a flanged meter socket hole, so they can put the locking ring on it. They are bastards.


 What # is this panel you are using? I couldn't find that in the pdf page for SQ D.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

B-Nabs said:


> With the labels printed both ways, one could argue there is no upside-down!



:thumbsup:


Good point!


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I've flipped any number of guts over the years.

If necessary, I've drilled and tapped new holes. This is touchy, as the dead front still had to stay UP.

Then, I'd toss in some K/O blanks so that the dead front was fully restored.

This travail was less embarrassing than admitting that my U/G feed was a trivial 15" short. ( How that happened still flumoxes me, as I used tru-tape and tossed in an extra 10-feet as insurance. Aluminum is cheap. ) Duct tape completed the '3R seal.'

It was for temp power...for my own job... so I wasn't all that fussy.

The result worked like a charm.

I might have gone a different way if the panel was permanent power.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> I've flipped any number of guts over the years.
> 
> If necessary, I've drilled and tapped new holes. This is touchy, as the dead front still had to stay UP.
> 
> ...


I doubt there are many here that haven't flipped a panel over to accommodate the specifics of a job.


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