# best tool for cutting 50 electrical switch/outlet boxes in horse hair plaster



## gglav2 (Feb 1, 2013)

anyone have a favorite tool/method for cutting out alot of holes for boxes in horse hair plaster without messing up the wall also a good stud finder for horse hair plaster too. i can't see finding the center Lath cutting that and braking the top and bottom half of half of the lath on every box that would take forever and dont reply yeah just use a reciprocating saw that asking to take all the plaster down. has anyone tried the temple plate for a roto zip they sell or dremel the problem with them two is all the dust.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Rotozip. Period.

Carbide bit to clear the plaster/mortar, then a Sabre bit for the lathe.


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## Error (Feb 12, 2014)

Oscillating saw is cleaner. But for that many holes I would tell the customer there will be wall repair and just start smashing holes. Taping around the cut out might help. Good luck sounds like a ****ty one


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

The oscillating saw is the man for the job. Just make sure you add enough in your bid for plenty of blades.

I also like the idea of taping around your cuts.


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## gglav2 (Feb 1, 2013)

*a good stud finder*

what about a good stud finder for horse hair plaster


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

the problem with the dust isn't so much the mess, it's the asbestos (if it's in there?).

I've used diamond wheels (small grinder as well as the rotozip/dremel style) and also tried rotozips in plaster, but if I was going to do it nowadays I would at least give the multi tool a try as well (haven't had to deal with plaster in a while).


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MultiMaster all day long.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Multi tool.


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## Error (Feb 12, 2014)

Pray each time you cut a hole . If you hit a stud then notch it out and put a Reno box in there . I don't use stud finders never had a good one though


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

I personally use a cut off grinder with a diamond wheel. It cuts perfectly, quickly, and best of all very little mess. We have used them for several rewires. It will cut all of the way through the lathe and expanded metal too. One wheel is cheaper than the multitool blades and will last forever! :thumbsup:


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## gglav2 (Feb 1, 2013)

yeah the house needs to be rewired 1883 its was rebuilt so even older im just going to bid high seams like a could lose big and they what a fixed price not hourly rate and everything has to be up to 2014 code right im pretty sure it does and hard wired smokes


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## gglav2 (Feb 1, 2013)

3 D how u make a perfect cut with a cut off grinder they must be some patching ill have to do with a cut off grinder then correct vs multi tool


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

480sparky said:


> MultiMaster all day long.


What he said...:thumbsup:


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## Error (Feb 12, 2014)

gglav2 said:


> yeah the house needs to be rewired 1883 its was rebuilt so even older im just going to bid high seams like a could lose big and they what a fixed price not hourly rate and everything has to be up to 2014 code right im pretty sure it does and hard wired smokes


Damn that's an old house. The last house I did last they put drywall right over the the plaster in the bad spots Soo I just sawzalled all my holes and got it done quickly. I would walk if you have not done many like this


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

gglav2 said:


> yeah the house needs to be rewired 1883 its was rebuilt so even older im just going to bid high seams like a could lose big and they what a fixed price not hourly rate and everything has to be up to 2014 code right im pretty sure it does and hard wired smokes


If you give an hourly rate you'll never make money.

Do a take off and give a grand total price.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

gglav2 said:


> 3 D how u make a perfect cut with a cut off grinder they must be some patching ill have to do with a cut off grinder then correct vs multi tool


The cut off wheel moves so fast that it makes a clean cut. Maybe I've been lucky but I haven't had to patch anything yet. (Except where I needed to cut the wall for ease of fishing) try it on one vix and you will see. It cuts he expanded metal and keeps it from vibrating (a common problem that usually results in broken plaster). Nothing is perfect but I have found a grinder works for me. Plus the multitool blades are ridiculously expensive!


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

I just bought the multi tool with a L looking plunge bit for cutting. It is slower then the hacksaw but cleaner and cuts with much less dust. The roto is an awesome tool and I use it to enlarge holes and countless other duties. I would say it is harder to control then the multi tool for cutting in receptacles. The L plunge blade (for a lack of a better word) grabs behind the wall and tracks you in.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I have both a RotoZip and Fein Multimaster, and use them both often. 
IMO the Multimaster vibrates way too much for plaster and lathe. A steady hand with the Roto is less violent, unless of course it get's out of shape and bounces around.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Multimaster with the carbide bit is what I use, plus it doesn't make a ridiculous dust mess like a rotozip. 



Speedy Petey said:


> I have both a RotoZip and Fein Multimaster, and use them both often.
> IMO the Multimaster vibrates way too much for plaster and lathe. A steady hand with the Roto is less violent, unless of course it get's out of shape and bounces around.


So it's less violent until it becomes more violent. Makes perfect sense. Gotcha.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

gglav2 said:


> what about a good stud finder for horse hair plaster












:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/sub-scanner-m12-detection-tool-kit/996950


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## Mitchell1211 (Feb 6, 2014)

Use a claw hammer to remove the plaster(carefully) and a sharp keyhole to cut the lath. 

When cutting the lath, don't cut all of one side before starting the other. I start cutting the side furthest from the stud, leave about 1/4" intact, then cut the side closest to the stud. 

Knock the wall to find a stud. Ideally, it's original plaster and no Sheetrock shenanigans. I don't like the idea of old work receptacles being mounted to lath, so wherever possible I knock for a stud and poke the wall with a skinny flat head to find it. You're going to have to patch.

I recently bought a cordless multitool thinking it would be easier and faster, but that wasn't the case. The multitool made great cuts in the plaster, but was terrible at cutting the lath(it shook the lath away from the plaster which weakened the wall). I haven't tried a rotozip, so a multitool/rotozip setup might be the right combo... But, rotozips throw a lot of dust. The hammer/keyhole saw method is minimal dust.

So in summary here are the necessary tools and order of operations:
Any straight claw hammer will do, I prefer the Klein Straight Claw
Preferably two keyhole saws; a sharp one for cutting lath, and a dull one for cutting plaster. Greenlee 301A

-Knock the wall to find a stud
-Use a dull keyhole to find the gap between the lath and cut towards the stud. You're probably going to have to patch this little bit
-Trace your box next to the stud
-Remove the plaster (hammer/multitool/magic/whatever)
-Cut the lath with your sharp keyhole.
*if you're cutting out a box and you're not next to a stud, MAKE SURE your top and bottom of the box catch lath. The plaster between the lath may hold your box, but as soon as you go to install your device the box will break the plaster and fall into the wall... Have fun with that.
-I think that's it. 

I rarely see drywall, and when I do it's laminated to plaster and lath.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

That's good advice. Last time I worked on a plaster wall, 2 months ago, I had and have always used my 12 hacksaw with a plaster blade. Now I have upgraded to the18 volt hacksaw. I believe like you stated that there is multiple steps in dealing with certain materials. This is one of the reasons I love my trade (unless of course I'm not prepared then I hate it)!


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

whatever method you use make sure you're charging enough.
take some pictures maybe the guys can give you a better analysis of your job


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## Walkman (Aug 16, 2014)

If they are insisting on a firm cost that is a serious RED FLAG. That simply means that they do not want to pay for what they know you'll run in to. Or they know there are way too many variables to get an accurate quote and want to get away with as much as they can. How many intelligent adults don't know what an estimate is and why it is offered instead of an exact cost?

Strictly time and material unless you feel you can pad the bid enough to compensate for the damage and / or excessive time it's going to take to get it done right. There's a lot of wierdness in the framing of 1,000 year old houses; you are going to run into some of it I would suspect.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

wildleg said:


> the problem with the dust isn't so much the mess, it's the asbestos (if it's in there?).


I've run into this here. The horse hair was replaced with asbestos as the binder. 
A HEPA vac will keep the dust to a minimum.


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## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

3D Electric said:


> The cut off wheel moves so fast that it makes a clean cut. Maybe I've been lucky but I haven't had to patch anything yet. (Except where I needed to cut the wall for ease of fishing) try it on one vix and you will see. It cuts he expanded metal and keeps it from vibrating (a common problem that usually results in broken plaster). Nothing is perfect but I have found a grinder works for me. Plus the multitool blades are ridiculously expensive!


I once saw my old journeyman old work in a bath fan in plaster with metal lathe with a cut off wheel. Made a really clean cut.

Thankfully most of the plaster that I run into has rock lathe.


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## Wpgshocker (Jan 25, 2013)

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessories/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=MM485


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## gglav2 (Feb 1, 2013)

the bid is not a complete firm price. if i run into problems like fire blocks, walls hard to fish due to objects in wall, wide wall cavities and have photos to prove it the only problem i have is how will i get down a sloped ceiling to the bottom wall without alot of holes on the second floor. Theres like one maybe two outlets in most rooms. Thats the other reason they want this done plus all the smokes will have to be hardwired and arc fault breakers anyone us think of any other problems i may run into beside the basic The house is 1,400 sq feet Colonial with a real steep roof 3 bed 2 bath the house is Balloon Framing which is nice. But with the steep roof all the upstair beds one wall or two walls have a sloped ceiling anyone have any tricks to fishing that i know the plate with have to be notched where the wall meets the sloped ceiling Im thinking 16,000 not including service upgrade maybe ill find 100,000 bucks in gold coins and 20,000 in 90% silver like a friend of mine did the old timer put it in the wall in the 1950s well that was the newest gold and silver coin and i guess died or forgot about it ive rewired houses and made a good profit just not from the 1800s and with the sloped ceiling


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