# Better pay...Telecommunications or commercial electrician?



## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I am 26 and looking at getting into the electrical field.

I have been looking into the apprenticeships that the NJATC offer and have been trying to decide between these two apprenticeships.

I know the pay will depend on exp.,location,ect...but is there a average difference in pay once you are certified?

Is one an all around better job than the other?

It will really help me make my decision hearing from the electricians on this site.
Thanks agin:thumbsup:

Sorry just realized I posted this in the wrong place:whistling2:


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

In my area you will make more as an electrician. As far as witch is easier, lets see 4-5 year apprenticeship for electrician. about 2 years for low voltage. Electrical, run 4'' RGC and pull 500MCM or Low voltage, run 1/2'' EMT and drop some cat 5, cat3, or coax.:thumbup:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

dawgs said:


> In my area you will make more as an electrician. As far as witch is easier, lets see 4-5 year apprenticeship for electrician. about 2 years for low voltage. Electrical, run 4'' RGC and pull 500MCM or Low voltage, run 1/2'' EMT and drop some cat 5, cat3, or coax.:thumbup:


Or, low voltage - run 1 cat 5 down the 1 & 1/2 EMT the electrician installed, and b*tch that the "pull" was difficult. :blink: :jester:


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## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

Ok guys I get the picture:laughing: 

But do you think the easy work is worth the pay cut?
About how much of a pay cut?
How much difference is there in job demand?

Sorry for all the questions but I have a wife and two young kids to support so I need a good job to provide for my family:thumbsup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

LV learn all you can in no time, bored in just a few weeks, less pay, replaced by unskiled workers pretty easily.

Electrician, wide variety of work, good pay, bit more (A LOT) skills.


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## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

brian john said:


> LV learn all you can in no time, bored in just a few weeks, less pay, replaced by unskiled workers pretty easily.
> 
> Electrician, wide variety of work, good pay, bit more (A LOT) skills.


Seems to make sense.

Do any of you guys do home inspections as well?


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## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

One more thing guys,

Is it the best option to get an apprenticeship in just one field or just get on with a company that does residential and commercial so you learn both sides?
How did you get your start?

Any help is much appreciated.


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## Chicagoguy (Jan 30, 2008)

For a Local in Illinois, the journeyman construction is getting paid 37.80/hour and the communications journeyman is getting 33.94.


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## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

Thanks Chicogoguy gives me an idea of the pay scales.

I am in the south so they are not getting paid that down here Im sure:laughing: 

But like I said that still gives me a good idea about the payscales:thumbsup:


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

ask the NJATC or the local hall what the pay and bene scales are. They should have no problem telling you what they are.

as well, if you are going to do the union thing, you will have to choose one or the other. Can't do both. In my local, a JIW can be qualified to do teledata (VDV) as well but a VDV guy cannot do power. 




> dawgsIn my area you will make more as an electrician. As far as witch is easier, lets see 4-5 year apprenticeship for electrician. about 2 years for low voltage. Electrical, run 4'' RGC and pull 500MCM or Low voltage, run 1/2'' EMT and drop some cat 5, cat3, or coax.:thumbup:


never heard of 2000 pair cable?

It is pretty big stuff and terminating it takes a lot longer than terminating one measly little set of 500 mcm.

(yes, I know, it is not that common, simply wanted to give you some grief)


actually sitting around and terminating a couple hundred cat 5's can be a real pain in the ass.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

kev843 said:


> .... I have a wife and two young kids to support so I need a good job to provide for my family:thumbsup:


That says it all.


"A" program....otherwise known as an Inside/Ouside Journeyman Wireman.
There is no distinction as to what a "commercial electrician" is ...you could be running AC or MC in a mall today and then tomorrow be running pipe at a mill and then the next relamping dorm rooms.


Lineman is also a nice opportunity IF the local you have in mind has that classification ....long hours, big bucks....any time there is a "major disturbance" on the grid (think NOLA+Katrine):











> Diamondhead, MS—Out-of-state linemen, on contract with Coastal Electric, work to bring power to the Bay St. Louis-side of Diamondhead as home owners return to start rebuilding their lives and homes destroyed by Hurricane Katrina almost two months ago.


http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/GCNkatrinaDiamondhead.htm

When the **** literally hits the fan...you're every day romex monkey or pipe bender is entirely out of his class here.

Years ago, the Power Companies (POCO, a generic term we use on these forums ) decided if they went with a cost saving measure called "deferred maintenance" , they could save some money and pat themselves on the back. Well, time is just about up on the deferral as the nations grid is coming pretty close to falling apart. 
There will always be a demand for qualified linemen. 
You're not going to find linemen posting ads on craig's list offering their services at dirt cheap prices :thumbsup: like the narrowbacks do.


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## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

Really appriciate all of your posts and opinions.

Glad to see once I get into the field I will have made a great choice:thumbsup: 

Seems that you all love your jobs and get payed well...Cant ask for more than that


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

nap said:


> actually sitting around and terminating a couple hundred cat 5's can be a real pain in the ass.


Enough to make you want to blow your brains out.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Enough to make you want to blow your brains out.


there have been times............:blink:


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

As an A apprentice, we took all the low voltage classes. I am BICSI certified, learned Fire Alarms, HVAC (EPA cert.) and so on. I have never done anything but run pipe for the men and women who pull and terminate these wires. Still, I'm never sorry I learned it. Come to think of it, I'm never sorry I learned anything.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Celtic said:


> That says it all.
> 
> 
> "A" program....otherwise known as an Inside/Ouside Journeyman Wireman.
> ...


I disagree .I think any able electrician can asess damage ,help with recovery efforts.We have our storms also.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Chicagoguy said:


> For a Local in Illinois, the journeyman construction is getting paid 37.80/hour and the communications journeyman is getting 33.94.


Does that number include benefits?


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## Chicagoguy (Jan 30, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> Does that number include benefits?


No that number increases to $59.43 and $49.43 respectively.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> I disagree .I think any able electrician can asess damage ,help with recovery efforts.We have our storms also.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..I just don't agree with yours.

The average romex jockey hasn't got a clue when it comes to line work.
You can "hire" folks from the Big Box parking lot to wire a home....you won't persons of that caliber in a bucket truck restringing fallen lines due to ice damage.
I can take that guy out of the bucket truck and have him wiring homes in about 2 hours.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..I just don't agree with yours.
> 
> The average romex jockey hasn't got a clue when it comes to line work.
> You can "hire" folks from the Big Box parking lot to wire a home....you won't persons of that caliber in a bucket truck restringing fallen lines due to ice damage.
> I can take that guy out of the bucket truck and have him wiring homes in about 2 hours.


 
I agree with that, just from the guys I have worked with that came from the POCO end. Most could wire up three and four way switching without a diagram or coaching as well.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Many in our field are not really specialist IMO but just know what they know in their particular aspect of the trade. Utility guys In My Expierence, know little to nothing about electricity, and are very limited in any expierence outside their world.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Prime example of the need I am talking about:
The Associated Press: Florida Power Blackout Remains a Puzzle



> The president of Florida Power & Light was puzzled by how the blackout happened, saying an equipment malfunction at an electrical substation should not have caused the outages


When the Head Nincompoop In Charge [HNIC] hasn't got a clue....who will be called?
The romex ropers or the linemen?



> The sporadic outages Tuesday *spanned 300 miles* of the peninsula but appeared to be concentrated in the southeast portion of the state. Communities along the southwest coast, in the Florida Keys and as far north as Daytona Beach reported interruptions.
> 
> While the outages *cut power to 2 million to 3 million people at its peak*, power was quickly restored to most parts of the state and authorities said no injuries were reported. Only about 20,000 people lacked electricity during the evening commute home.


300 miles, a couple of million w/o power...BUT most restored quickly - leaving 20k w/o power.....still not the romex rockets' language.

The HNIC may have dodged a major bullet on the first few million users, but what happened to the remaining 1000's ...who, what, when, where, and how?


Mark my words (last paragraph here #*11*)...we will see more and more of this in the future.


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## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

Well then it seems to me it would be best to do the inside wireman apprenticeship,learn all I can and complete the program.From then on the "style" of work I would do is just dependent on the company I choose to work for 
Sound about right?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Yes...get into the *"A" program*...I can't stress that enough.
If "B" (residential), "C" (tele/date ; communciations) or any other letter is offered...take it begrudgingly ~ and see what can be done to get you into the "A" program. 

Not every local has a lineman classification....and many areas that need lineman get them from adjacent locals(along with the EC doing the job)....who may get the extra help needed from traveling linemen.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Yes...get into the *"A" program*...I can't stress that enough.
> If "B" (residential), "C" (tele/date ; communciations) or any other letter is offered...take it begrudgingly ~ and see what can be done to get you into the "A" program.


NO NO NO do NOT do that! Once they got you in a B or C program, you will have to fight tooth and nail to go to A, and they'll try to discourage you by making you start at the begining again.



> Not every local has a lineman classification....and many areas that need lineman get them from adjacent locals(along with the EC doing the job)....who may get the extra help needed from traveling linemen.


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## Chicagoguy (Jan 30, 2008)

When I was going through my hiring process the last 6-8 months, I heard sort of the same thing as what LawnGauyLandSparky said. A few of the locals around me were only hiring for residential and communication programs; there were some people that asked if the got into the residential or communication program could they then transfer into the A Program. The locals specifically said that if people's main interest was to get into the A program that they should wait until they are hiring people for that position. They said the likelyhood of starting in Residential/Communications and getting transferred into the A Program was slim to none...


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> NO NO NO do NOT do that! Once they got you in a B or C program, you will have to fight tooth and nail to go to A, and they'll try to discourage you by making you start at the begining again.


Not every local is run the way the JIB is run.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Not every local is run the way the JIB is run.


Then there IS hope... :thumbsup: :laughing:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Then there IS hope... :thumbsup: :laughing:


...maybe a little :laughing:


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## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

Well if you want to do a job for the money , go for lawyer or surgeon !


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## kev843 (Feb 22, 2008)

Well of course money has to do with it...unfortunately just about everything has to do with money.
But I will not do a job I HATE just for the money.For me its all about finding the middle ground between money and a job I like.

No one wants to wake up everymorning and hate going to work,
and everyone wants to be able to support their family right?


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## rbj (Oct 23, 2007)

kev843 said:


> Well of course money has to do with it...unfortunately just about everything has to do with money.
> But I will not do a job I HATE just for the money.For me its all about finding the middle ground between money and a job I like.
> 
> No one wants to wake up everymorning and hate going to work,
> and everyone wants to be able to support their family right?


kev843, 

Find what you like to do and you will never work a day in your life. With good training, experience comes easy, so you make the choice early and the study will get you up the ladder. As far as inspectors, you can answer the franchised ads...."No experience needed, company will train." Watch out for that one. 

Sure they send you to a 3 week training course for 3 grand, then set you up with tools and a truck ($12k) after signing a contract for paying back the 'loan' each time you get an inspection. That's a quick reference to the short cut to getting $65 bucks a house until you get full certification after doing 250 houses. 

I hope this satisfies any curiosity about who really gets the lions share of the $375 bucks on a 3 hour job. The Real Estate market is way down now, so franchise HI's are probably looking to do study courses as electricians or truck sales. ............rbj


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Linework is like playing Hearts. "Just Follow Suit."


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## Aiken Colon (May 16, 2008)

kev843 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am 26 and looking at getting into the electrical field.
> 
> ...


I deal with electrical, telecomm, datacomm guys I will tell you this much. If you mix telecom and datacom together and package the telecomm and datacomm services/equipment/wiring together that is big money. Now a days almost 20% of the S&P 500 is companies that do just that. Sell datacom equipment, sell datacom services, use the telecom/datacom wiring/networking to put it all together. Not to mention most guys either don't want to, or cannot afford the equipment to do fiber drops. I know a guy that use to get $250 per fiber run just because of that.

Now a days, datacomm security is huge also. The guy we use now does telecomm and some datacomm. He just farms out what datacomm he doesn't know, or doesn't want to put the time in to learning.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.


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## dognutz12 (Apr 30, 2008)

Pay scale differences for our area are: Inside JW- $31.56 , Residential wireman- $23.10, Telecomm- 26.79. All scales are "on the check". Inside apprecticeship is 5 years, resi is 2 year and telecomm is well I'm not real sure, but I took a 2 week structured wiring class and I'm pretty sure I know enough to do the work. At 26 years old I would strongly suggest getting a commercial apprenticeship.


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