# Spot the Violation - Will I die?



## dieselram752

So you are asking why the panel is dead ?
Whats up with the funky slide lock on the door?


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## Wirenuting

dieselram752 said:


> So you are asking why the panel is dead ?
> Whats up with the funky slide lock on the door?


The Funky lock was put on by an in house maintenance guy. 
Is the Panel dead? My good old fashioned Wiggy said it is.

Would you feel safe working this panel today?


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## 480sparky

Yes, you most certainly will die if you need a heating pad and hot coffee to live.


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## Wirenuting

480sparky said:


> Yes, you most certainly will die if you need a heating pad and hot coffee to live.


Hey, I ran out coffee. 


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## Wirenuting

I'm really working on an MCC next to this panel today. Thought I would toss a trick question out. 

With the info given, would you work this panel?


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## MarcsDirtyLaundry

You said it's dead but you didn't say that you shut it off yourself. I wouldn't work in a panel that I thought was dead without verifying the reason why it's dead and making sure no one was going to be turning it back on while I was in it.


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## BBQ

Stop goofing off and get 'r done.


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## Wirenuting

MarcsDirtyLaundry said:


> You said it's dead but you didn't say that you shut it off yourself. I wouldn't work in a panel that I thought was dead without verifying the reason why it's dead and making sure no one was going to be turning it back on while I was in it.


That's a pretty good answer. 
Ok I just walked over and tested my Wiggy in a 120v receptacle and it works. 
I now read the main breaker in the panel and that shows nothing present. 

Only thing in this room is a bunch of normal air handlers feed from an 480v MCC in here also.


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## Wirenuting

BBQ said:


> Stop goofing off and get 'r done.


Yes sir,,, let me go get a breaker outa my truck. Man your rushing me today. LoL


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## Wirenuting

Would anyone work this panel if their Wiggy said there was no power?


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## MarcsDirtyLaundry

Wirenuting said:


> Would anyone work this panel if their Wiggy said there was no power?


I haven't used a Wiggy in years.


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## Wirenuting

MarcsDirtyLaundry said:


> I haven't used a Wiggy in years.


I haven't ether. But some people still swear by them. 
To be fair, there is a sign missing from the door leading in to this room. Been trying for years to get them to put one up. 
I know about the hazard, but not many others.


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## Wirenuting

A sample sign is on my profile page. 
Don't have it on my cell to upload.


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## MarcsDirtyLaundry

You are so gay.


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## BBQ

Wirenuting said:


> A sample sign is on my profile page.
> Don't have it on my cell to upload.













I would not have figured it out.


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## Wirenuting

MarcsDirtyLaundry said:


> You are so gay.


Wow, that's kind if a harsh thing to say. I'm not the one showing dirtylaundry. 

Some people have mentioned to that a good old fashioned wiggy is all they need to start out with. 

About 6 months ago a contractor came in and hooked up a circuit to this panel. Then they called to say restore power please. 

I turned the MCC off today for repairs. And figured I snap a few pics. Here is the Freq unit in another room that feeds this unit.


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## BBQ

Normally you don't send someone just starting out into live panels. :laughing:


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## Wirenuting

BBQ said:


> I would not have figured it out.


That's the sad thing around here were I work. No one would figure it out. People take things at face value. 
And today I'll try again to have warning signs put up.


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## BBQ

Wirenuting said:


> That's the sad thing around here were I work. No one would figure it out. People take things at face value.
> And today I'll try again to have warning signs put up.


Well that is sad because if I worked there and was aware 400 hz was in use I would have figured it out.

But here looking at a picture of a panel my mind does not jump to thinking 'oh that is obviously supplied at 400 hz' :laughing:


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## Wirenuting

BBQ said:


> Normally you don't send someone just starting out into live panels. :laughing:


Normal is such an over worked work. 
That's like hearing a GC say that it's Industry standard. LoL


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## Wirenuting

BBQ said:


> Well that is sad because if I worked there and was aware 400 hz was in use I would have figured it out.
> 
> But here looking at a picture of a panel my mind does not jump to thinking 'oh that is obviously supplied at 400 hz' :laughing:


You would have figured it out. And I would have also.. But a few people here over the years here have gotten it wrong.


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## BBQ

Take a sharpie, write 400 hz on the panel and feel better.


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## Wirenuting

BBQ said:


> Take a sharpie, write 400 hz on the panel and feel better.


Last time I did that on the outside of a panel the boss yelled. 

So I write it inside now. 

This one panel, there are a few around here, you can feel the pipe humming when it's hot. The wires are not pulled tight in the home run. The others you can't tell.


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## BBQ

BTW I don't think you are gay.








Just a little effeminate. :laughing:



<JK>


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## Wirenuting

BBQ said:


> BTW I don't think you are gay.
> 
> Just a little effeminate. :laughing:
> 
> <JK>


Sorry but I can't be anything I can't spell. LoL

Besides my wife would kill me if I became an eff-e-minate kinda guy.


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## BBQ

Wirenuting said:


> Sorry but I can't be anything I can't spell. LoL


I had to Google it to be sure I had the spelling right. :laughing:


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## Wirenuting

BBQ said:


> I had to Google it to be sure I had the spelling right. :laughing:


Me to. 

So here's the joke,

Hey new guy, if your were camping and woke up with a rubber hanging out your ass,, would you say anything?

His answer,,, No Fn way, that's so gay. 

Hey new guy, wanna go camping?


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## Wirenuting

Boss just said,,, " told you before,, no Fn signs.. Get out of my office!!"

Ok time to punch the clock.


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## TOOL_5150

If you plugged a purely resistive load into a 400hz system.. would it work?

~Matt


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## goose134

I remember working at an airport and all of the 400hz power was run in aluminum conduit and boxes. Is that the case here? The high frequency will heat up ferrous material.


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## Shockdoc

The lord won't strike you down but the members of ET are forming a line.


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## Wirenuting

TOOL_5150 said:


> If you plugged a purely resistive load into a 400hz system.. would it work?
> 
> ~Matt


A purely resistive load will work. But a 60hz solenoid coil will produce no meaningful work. The magnetic field expands and contracts to quickly. 
I never used my old Wiggy on 400 Hz but 25 years ago an old timer in the shop said he tried it and nothing happened, it look as if the panel was dead. 
We used alot of 400hz equipment on the old gunmounts and those solenoids worked fine. You get a faster equipment response with it. 

The pipe is not all aluminum like at the airport.


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## millelec

I've manually paralleled 400 Hz motor generator sets before. Had a synchroscope and volt & freq meters on panel. Is a slam bang procedure. you shut the incoming breaker at right moment then just pop the other breaker open that was online. speed control was a little wonky. Never worked w/a wiggy, always analog & digital meters so never ran into that situation.


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## Wirenuting

millelec said:


> I've manually paralleled 400 Hz motor generator sets before. Had a synchroscope and volt & freq meters on panel. Is a slam bang procedure. you shut the incoming breaker at right moment then just pop the other breaker open that was online. speed control was a little wonky. Never worked w/a wiggy, always analog & digital meters so never ran into that situation.


One of these days I'll dig out my old wiggy and try it. If my cell had video I would post the results.


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## doubleoh7

BBQ said:


> I would not have figured it out.


 


What's the frequency Kenneth?


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## kaboler

from wikipedia:



> Frequencies as high as 400 Hz are used in aircraft, spacecraft, submarines, server rooms for computer power,[17] military equipment, and hand-held machine tools. Such high frequencies cannot be economically transmitted long distances, so 400 Hz power systems are usually confined to a building or vehicle. Transformers and motors for 400 Hz are much smaller and lighter than at 50 or 60 Hz, which is an advantage in aircraft and ships. A United States military standard MIL-STD-704 exists for aircraft use of 400 Hz power.


I never knew that there were places that had different frequencies. TY for the reading!!!

Can I ask what kind of stuff this panel was feeding? Because I don't know if I'll experience this kind of stuff too much, but I'd hate to die.


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## kaboler

Hey, I was on wikipedia more, and you know how transformers vibrate? Well, this is interesting. I'd like to walk into a building and see that panel and hear the hz hahaha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_hum

Not that the panel would hum, but something close to the panel would be humming at 400hz probably.


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## Wirenuting

kaboler said:


> Can I ask what kind of stuff this panel was feeding? Because I don't know if I'll experience this kind of stuff too much, but I'd hate to die.


It is a school. There are several here that use it or have used it in the past. Most of the equipment has been updated or replaced. The loads here vary and I doubt you would see it on the outside. It's a shipboard trainer. 
And this home run hums when energized. Could be sound from the Freq generator traveling down the pipe?


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## HARRY304E

Wirenuting said:


> It is a school. There are several here that use it or have used it in the past. Most of the equipment has been updated or replaced. The loads here vary and I doubt you would see it on the outside. It's a shipboard trainer.
> And this home run hums when energized. Could be sound from the Freq generator traveling down the pipe?


If one of your guys has a pair of Knopp testers see if they pick up the voltage back in the early 90's we used those and we could pick up the voltage when the wiggys could not..

They are not rated for 400 cycles but at that time they worked..

I wonder if they are still made the same way.


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## Saturday Cowboy

thank you i learned something today


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## kaboler

I worked at an airport today that had 400hz stuff. It supplies power to idling airplanes.


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## Spannerz

Imagine getting that out at someones house!


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## IBEW191

I don't have a wiggie but this is one more reason not to own one.:thumbsup: Thank you for the info!:thumbup:


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## Shorty Circuit

I ran 400hz installing 1100/90 series Sperry mainframe computers form motor alternator sets many years ago and all of the conduit had to be aluminum to prevent voltage drop. With or without a Wiggy, you need to use LOTO. A Fluke VOM should show voltage at 400 hz.


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