# Labor Dispute



## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

It's about to hit the fan. Added security personnel and trailers were moved in, cameras installed. Several texts and emails since last night about the workers being locked out on Monday. I'm going in shortly to clean out my desk and gather important files. Lock out or strike, I will not cross either. I have worked for a union contractor on that site for over 6 years and know many of the people who will be affected. Hopefully, it gets resolved soon.



http://tdn.com/news/local/kapstone-...cle_c36ec714-986e-11e4-b49c-ef4271411d7a.html


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Good Luck!


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Best of luck and hopefully a resolution is found soon.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

So in other words the union has made themselves un-welcome on yet another job?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> So in other words the union has made themselves un-welcome on yet another job?


Sure, whatever you say


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## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

Best of luck brother- In Brotherhood Everybody Wins!


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Bargaining gone bad with big corps. Seem to never fair well. Good luck. Hope they aren't trying to break labor. McClary, you like sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. May end up not going your way some day. You can shut up now. Brothers out of work and you smile.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Good Luck . I also would not cross the line . What is the main problem ?




Pete


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cl219um said:


> Bargaining gone bad with big corps. Seem to never fair well. Good luck. Hope they aren't trying to break labor. McClary, you like sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. May end up not going your way some day. You can shut up now. Brothers out of work and you smile.


Maybe they shouldn't make unreasonable demands?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

So...What happens if during your strike, they decide to bring in non-union labor to get the job done, and then decide to cut their union ties? Does that mean you guys will all be permanently out of a job, or is their still some sort of red tape involved?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> So...What happens if during your strike, they decide to bring in non-union labor to get the job done, and then decide to cut their union ties? Does that mean you guys will all be permanently out of a job, or is their still some sort of red tape involved?


This is usually what happens



On Strike Verizon union thug tries to intimidate…: http://youtu.be/yuQHEIdLv3s


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Maybe they shouldn't make unreasonable demands?


For insurance and to go home to my family in one piece? Maybe your right. Too much to ask. Did you take the time to look at the attachment? Or just jump on going against whatever came up on the union forum? What is your beef with the ibew, or any other organized labor?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Then there's this



Union Thugs Get Violent: http://youtu.be/PHkEBMXJQmQ


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Yep. Real respectable people here

Union Intimidation: http://youtu.be/WMzjCdXRLeg


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

How about putting this much energy into your work? .... lol. ... yeah right. .... that's why there's a union in the first place



Union Thugs Gone Wild: http://youtu.be/e7L_cuQJ1pQ


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yep. Real respectable people here
> 
> Union Intimidation: http://youtu.be/WMzjCdXRLeg


People get mad when white collars make rules against their ability to make a living. You and Scott walker must bowl together. Most negotiations are peaceful and never make headlines. There are a few protests like what happened in Madison that I am surprised didn't get more heated. Go back to the flock sheep and do what you do best.


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> So in other words the union has made themselves un-welcome on yet another job?


Rather than post a generality like this, and links that are not relevant to the original post, why not post something the thread starter, or any of us, might actually be able to use? 

Shouting "Union Bad!" doesn't give anyone any real information. or help, IMHO.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I like McClary, but he does have a die-hard problem with unions and it colors his judgement. 

I agree with _Dan_: Deal with this case on the specific facts and nothing else.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Big John said:


> I like McClary, but he does have a die-hard problem with unions and it colors his judgement.


Perhaps but he is allowed to express his opinion... to McClary: No more video links please, you've made your point. :thumbsup:



Big John said:


> I agree with _Dan_: Deal with this case on the specific facts and nothing else.


Good advice. Hopefully the OP can fill in some more details if it is not in conflict with his own job security to do so. 

Keep it civil guys so this can be kept open.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

From the linked article, "AWPPW represents about 800 workers at the Longview pulp mill. Their contract expired in May."

Well who's at the helm to have let this go this far and why now? 

What say ye OP?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

If you go to the link, there are 8 or 9 other earlier stories about the ongoing negotiations and how it has led to the current situation, including a letter giving the union an ultimatum. This is a small town so I know many people that work for them. I can't speak for what they are actually asking for on the contract, but talking to people, they just don't want to lose health care, wages, seniority, etc. I do not work for them, I just work for a contactor at the mill.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

True, I didn't read the side stories.

I was just reading another unrelated article where it was noted that West Coast dock workers have no Contract either for almost the same amount of time.

What bothers me most about these types of situations is when people in a position don't do there job! Kind reminds me of a lot of things!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Per OP, seems the dispute is focused primarily on HC bennies? Where does the IBEW stand on this?

~CS~


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

One thing that knocks me out, is nobody complains about Public sector employees.Try to find one that isn't union.Federal,state,municipal,etc.,they are all union.They make outrageous money,super benefits,job assurance,52 weeks a year,40 hours a week,retire in 25 years, and nobody says a word. They never strike because they get everything handed to em'. Guess who is paying for that? A lot of public sector employees just can't function in the private sector! So who is zoomin' who?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I have worked both sides. I hold no animosity towards the union. In this case, it sounds like they have a legitimate beef.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

There will always be the ones who use intimidation as their means of getting what they want but to say all union members are lazy and worthless is not fair. Look at any group that is political-- you have the crazies in Anti-Abortion groups, religious sects, military, etc, It does not make the entire organization suspect. 

I am not union but my dad was way back. He was a business owner in NYC but had to get out because he could not afford the workers wages and the amount of work that they did. He would hire guys from the hall who would basically come in to get 8 hours. If you did not want them back then you had to let them go by noon and pay them for the day. These guys knew they only had to be on the job 4 hours and they would get paid for 8. As a non union company My dad's workers faced this first hand with threats 
and tire slashings. 

Sure I do believe the union has issues and perhaps have gone a bit far but I also realize that this is not the case everywhere. The unions have helped many people have a decent life style, get insurance etc.... 

My feeling is the union is just another option for people. I harbor no bad feelings as the union has its followers and so does non union shops. Personally, union is not for me but I am glad it is there for others. I wish those involved would keep it peaceful but I don't that will happen.

To each their own... Let's not get into a non union vs union fight but rather respond to the op without bashing each other.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I view unions as the last bastion against the war on labor, all of which rolls downhill to sorts like me.... i just wish the union guys would as well....

~CS~


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> I view unions as the last bastion against the war on labor


 Exactly right.:thumbsup:
Things seem to go in cycles, and union construction will make a comeback when enough non-union workers get tired of being boned.
The only reason that non-union wages are what they are is because they have to partly keep pace with union wages, lest talented non-union workers quit and join the union ranks. (many have already).
A good deal of our most talented electricians came from open shops.
If there's no union, how high do you think non-union wages would be?


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## Dock (Sep 24, 2014)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing that knocks me out, is nobody complains about Public sector employees.Try to find one that isn't union.Federal,state,municipal,etc.,they are all union.They make outrageous money,super benefits,job assurance,52 weeks a year,40 hours a week,retire in 25 years, and nobody says a word. They never strike because they get everything handed to em'. Guess who is paying for that? A lot of public sector employees just can't function in the private sector! So who is zoomin' who?




Really? I'm not public sector or union but these kind of statements rub me wrong. You sound like a child complaining that Johnny has a ball to play with and you don't. If it's that great for them then go apply to be one and stop complaining! You're making the rest of us look bad


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I've been on prevailing wage jobs , even worked with salts where i am Ampdude. There's a union history that,_ imho_, is being revisited , a redux of the guilded age if you will.:whistling2:

Inasmuch as i like to kick some asci sand at those union guys who come on here with an ego begging for it, i have no voice but _they _do. 

The _powers that be_ know this , they've started in with the public unions via Gov Walker, all engineered to kill collectivism

Most of the proponents don't even realize they're part of the labor pecking order that'll eventually take it in the shorts.:no:

This is social engineering at it's_ finest_, having blue collars advocate their own demise. Me? I might be an isolated recluse of an EC, but this old bird knows you cut one of us _we all_ bleed....

~CS~


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Loose Neutral said:


> This is exactly why this site sucks. As usual mcclary comes in wrecks the thread with his total bull**** that isn't relevant to this thread with no repercussions. Yet most times when a union member disagrees and gets a little verbal the biased mods come to the rescue and delete posts and close down threads. Makes you wonder why the traffic is way down.


Almost every thread that gets locked around here is because they are irrelevant to the site - excessive political bashing, etc. and homeowner questions - or if a thread starts going sideways quickly. The mods are more likely to try to keep things...erm..._moderate_ than shut it down. I don't see any anti-union bias from the mods. Alwon's post on this thread should prove that.

If traffic is down (and I don't know if it is), it's not because of the mods. I know wouldn't want their job.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Loose Neutral said:


> Ha ha more mods logged on than members. This site blows.


If you don't like it, leave.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> I've been on prevailing wage jobs , even worked with salts where i am Ampdude. There's a union history that,_ imho_, is being revisited , a redux of the guilded age if you will.:whistling2:
> 
> Inasmuch as i like to kick some asci sand at those union guys who come on here with an ego begging for it, i have no voice but _they _do.
> 
> ...


 Very well said, Steve. I agree with you 100%.
It's good to know that there are many, like yourself, who can see through the smokescreen.
Hopefully the rest will wake up, but I have a feeling that it will be too late when they finally realize what's been done to them.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

Loose Neutral said:


> This is exactly why this site sucks. As usual mcclary comes in wrecks the thread with his total bull**** that isn't relevant to this thread with no repercussions. Yet most times when a union member disagrees and gets a little verbal the biased mods come to the rescue and delete posts and close down threads. Makes you wonder why the traffic is way down.


Just ignore him.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Case in point. More deleted posts.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing that knocks me out, is nobody complains about Public sector employees.Try to find one that isn't union.Federal,state,municipal,etc.,they are all union.They make outrageous money,super benefits,job assurance,52 weeks a year,40 hours a week,retire in 25 years, and nobody says a word. They never strike because they get everything handed to em'. Guess who is paying for that? A lot of public sector employees just can't function in the private sector! So who is zoomin' who?


 Most of the public sector workers that I know make much less than they would working similar jobs in the private sector, and many of them sought jobs in the public sector when private sector jobs dried up.
The only good thing about public sector jobs are the bennies. Other than that, there's not much to recommend those jobs.
I agree that you seem jealous. 
Do you honestly think that your taxes would be lower if public sector unions were eliminated?
Do you believe that, out of the goodness of their hearts, politicians would pass those savings on to you instead of lining their pockets, and those of their biggest supporters? Really?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Loose Neutral said:


> Case in point. More deleted posts.


They were deleted because things got personal. The mods were doing their job. The posts weren't relevant to the subject of the thread anyway.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Loose Neutral said:


> Case in point. More deleted posts.


Read the rules-- you guys started attacking each other-- we are trying to avoid that. The post were not about the op's question but personal as stated above. Let it go..please


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing that knocks me out, is nobody complains about Public sector employees.
> 
> Try to find one that isn't union.Federal they are all union.They make outrageous money,super benefits,job assurance,52 weeks a year,40 hours a week,retire in 25 years, and nobody says a word.
> 
> They never strike because they get everything handed to em'.


Federal workers do have several unions, but joining and paying dues is optional. 
I've paid for 30 years. It gets you no extra benefits beyond having people who know and can navigate federal labor laws. 

Federal blue color workers make a standard wage based on the area they live in. They only receive a pay increase when congress authorizes it, this year it will be 1%. This doesn't cover the increase in medical that we have to pay.

Under the retirement system in place we can retire when we reach a minimum retirement age, 67 for me. We get social security and a only what we put into our employee thrifts savings plan, ie: a 401. 

We work 40 hour weeks and get paid for over time. Except for those times when we are furloughed, the. We work and have no expectation of pay. 
Ya, I worked during government shut downs and wasn't paid because it's the law.

Federal employes are bared by law and will be terminated if they attempt it utilize a labor action to not preform their required duties.

Federal employees CAN NOT STRIKE!

I hope this clears your misunderstanding of federal employment.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

*moo*



chicken steve said:


> Per OP, seems the dispute is focused primarily on HC bennies? Where does the IBEW stand on this?
> 
> ~CS~


Since these workers are represented by the AWPPW, we have no voice in their bargaining. I would venture to say that if a strike occurs, we would be there to support them, as would the the other trade unions. There are roughly a dozen union contractors on site providing services for electrical, piping, iron work, labor, millrighting, masonry, insulation,carpentry, boiler work, scaffolding, etc. We are a strong union town. Several of our industrial facilities, pulp and paper mills, power plants, chemical plants, etc. are union and employ union contract labor. It is in our best interest to show support.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Well good luck Sparky, i guess maybe we can keep up on it @ their site?>>>AWPPW

~CS~


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Some of the safety concerns the workers want addressed have to do with items in this link. Having been on site for several years, I can say this just scratches the surface.


http://tdn.com/news/local/kapstone-...cle_c0346edc-46de-11e4-832c-db1eb673aefb.html


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

So much for pleasant discourse.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

eejack said:


> So much for pleasant discourse.


I deleted a few posts that were antagonistic and then I had to delete others that were not bad but they were in response to the said posts


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

sparky970 said:


> Some of the safety concerns the workers want addressed have to do with items in this link. Having been on site for several years, I can say this just scratches the surface.
> 
> 
> http://tdn.com/news/local/kapstone-...cle_c0346edc-46de-11e4-832c-db1eb673aefb.html


At first sniff, it would seem the punishment justifies the crime with whoever this company is Spark.

~CS~


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I deleted a few posts that were antagonistic and then I had to delete others that were not bad but they were in response to the said posts


Thank you for your attempts to keep things civil. It is appreciated.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Read the rules-- you guys started attacking each other-- we are trying to avoid that. The post were not about the op's question but personal as stated above. Let it go..please


Funny how you pick and choose what's relevant or personal.:laughing:


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I deleted a few posts that were antagonistic and then I had to delete others that were not bad but they were in response to the said posts


Thanks for the effort Dennis. 

As you all know, I'm a union man and will likely be IBEW 'till I die and I'm still amazed....no its more like _amused_ how some people like to immediately lump all of us into the same category. As a union man....I would be the first one who would love take those same loudmouths in the vids that mcclary posted and bounce them from our ranks. Or at the very least.....quiet them permanently.:laughing:



Loose Neutral said:


> Funny how you pick and choose what's relevant or personal.:laughing:


 While I'm not saying that this doesn't happen....often...on this site, I have to defend Dennis. He is about the fairest moderator we have on here.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing that knocks me out, is nobody complains about Public sector employees.Try to find one that isn't union.Federal,state,municipal,etc.,they are all union.They make outrageous money,super benefits,job assurance,52 weeks a year,40 hours a week,retire in 25 years, and nobody says a word. They never strike because they get everything handed to em'. Guess who is paying for that? A lot of public sector employees just can't function in the private sector! So who is zoomin' who?


I don't know how much exposure you've had to the news, but plenty of people complain about public sector employees. Most don't make any distinction to public or private sector unions. More often than not, unions don't strike, it's just that when they do, or there's a lockout, this is the only time mainstream media covers it. 

The only public sector jobs I've heard of that have a 25 year retirement are some police and firefighters.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

IslandGuy said:


> I don't know how much exposure you've had to the news, but plenty of people complain about public sector employees. Most don't make any distinction to public or private sector unions. More often than not, unions don't strike, it's just that when they do, or there's a lockout, this is the only time mainstream media covers it.
> 
> The only public sector jobs I've heard of that have a 25 year retirement are some police and firefighters.


US Congress......


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> US Congress......


Which is in the unique position to make all it's own rules and regulations. Or not...


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> US Congress......


Congress & senators can collect upwards of $50,000 a year with only five years of service.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

xpertpc said:


> Congress & senators can collect upwards of $50,000 a year with only five years of service.


I am quite aware of this perk. Speaks volumes.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

3phase said:


> Hello, all. I am an industrial electrician doing 480VAC, PLC work and general troubleshooting of machine ckts from 480VAC to 125VDC and down to 120VAC and some 24V work. I also have a side job as a residential electrical contractor doing upgrades and some remodel work. We have homes built form the 1860's to present. A lot were built in the early 1900's. I know Speedy form another forum and he gave me the call you were here. I enjoy seeing how things are subtly different in different parts of the country and enjoy expanding my knowledge. I may be in and out slightly irregularly. P.S. I am not always this long winded.


I read the op completely. I read the ops link completely. Someone asked a question about what happens if rats come in. (The unions word for them, not mine)....so , I posted a link. Sorry if you're butt hurt. The ops link was vague at best. I attempted to show how the union handles things (in my experience). I'm sorry I didn't get the unions ok first before posting a link showing their behavior.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

In response to that, since I've got several pms and such, 


I posted a link. Don't like it? Please post a link showing how the union handles things. 

I post a link regarding union intimation. Please post a link that shows how the union negotiates things. I would like to see. 
I post a link that shows unions blocking picket lines. Please post a link that shows a way that unions handle picket lines, without using things like " our jobs" or "this is who you're hurting" ...... as if the rats don't have family's to feed? 

Feel free. Stop pming me. Stop comparing, stop
Complaining, post some real evidence. Go ahead. Change my mind. I'm truly curious. Again, Ive worked union. I know how this is done. But stop the name calling and PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

OP, I feel your pain. At least you can take solace in knowing that the union leadership will maintain their full pay and bennifits while you are all out on strike.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

five.five-six said:


> OP, I feel your pain. At least you can take solace in knowing that the union leadership will maintain their full pay and bennifits while you are all out on strike.


Thank you dude and that's a whole other side to this. Stewards earning 400,000 _500,000 while most of their guys are our of work. ..... sounds fair to me.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> It's about to hit the fan. Added security personnel and trailers were moved in, cameras installed. Several texts and emails since last night about the workers being locked out on Monday. I'm going in shortly to clean out my desk and gather important files. Lock out or strike, I will not cross either. I have worked for a union contractor on that site for over 6 years and know many of the people who will be affected. Hopefully, it gets resolved soon.
> http://tdn.com/news/local/kapstone-...cle_c36ec714-986e-11e4-b49c-ef4271411d7a.html


Good luck. I hope it gets resolved quickly for all parties involved.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> In response to that, since I've got several pms and such,
> 
> 
> I posted a link. Don't like it? Please post a link showing how the union handles things.
> ...


Why would the media cover anything boring and eventful, like most union negotiations. Why exactly, do you come into union threads and stir up trouble? Doesn't that make you just as bad as us "union" guys and all the trouble we start?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

sparky970 said:


> Why would the media cover anything boring and eventful, like most union negotiations. Why exactly, do you come into union threads and stir up trouble? Doesn't that make you just as bad as us "union" guys and all the trouble we start?


Yes it does. But I'm not scared to be the bad guy. Someone needs to expose these thugs


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

sparky970 said:


> That is awesome. I knew it would play out like this. I was sure you were waiting to make a statement like that, but, where is the threat, without the threat? Please explain.


No threat. Typical union exposure. They made the threat......


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Alright, enough of the bickering. Both points of view have been aired out and nothing else needs to be said. 

Anyone interested in following the situation can use the links the OP provided. 

Thread closed.


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