# Powering Emergency Exit signs



## william1978

What type of building are you working in?


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## william1978

Welcome to the forum.


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## RePhase277

700.16 makes it clear that exit lights are considered part of emergency lighting. I think 700.17 (in the 2005) sums it up. Emergency lighting must come on when the power to regular lighting is interrupted. It does not matter if the circuit is dedicated or on the lighting circuit, as long as a means exists to cause the emergency illumination to energize when regular lighting power fails.

In my opinion, the easiest way to do this is to wire the EM and exit lights to the un-switched side of the lighting circuit.


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## rlc3854

This another question related to local building/fire codes rather than NEC requiremts. The type of building/use ect. will determine what is required. The NEC will give you basic/min.safe electrical connections not design.


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## USAF sparky/CA C10

william1978 said:


> What type of building are you working in?


Thanks for the welcome. The facility is industrial and on an AF base. They currently have glow-in-the-dark exit signs up and were written up during a recent inspection (not sure if it was USAF code or CA that they were sited for).

Any of the 3 different methods stated would, of course, be wired to keep the light on in the event of a power outage.

Is there any NEC code or NFPA requirement that anyone has heard of that requires exit signs to be powered on a dedicated circuit?


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## RePhase277

USAF sparky/CA C10 said:


> Is there any NEC code or NFPA requirement that anyone has heard of that requires exit signs to be powered on a dedicated circuit?



Damn, it's like I'm invisible today. Read post #4.


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## goose134

Pretty sure it's in NEC, and I know in Chicago your exits can't share a neutral with your emergency lighting. This might be what you're thinking of.


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## USAF sparky/CA C10

InPhase277 said:


> Damn, it's like I'm invisible today. Read post #4.


Sorry Inphase. I was not ignoring your post and I was responding to your post with my second paragraph. Your post did, in fact, back up my side of the argument. 

The trouble is that I have a couple of individuals loudly (in one instance obnoxiously so) claiming that the NEC requires a dedicated circuit and I need black and white proof that he is mistaken. I do not have the NEC at home so will have to wait till tomorrow to reference 700.17.


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## lectricboy

InPhase277 said:


> 700.16 makes it clear that exit lights are considered part of emergency lighting. I think 700.17 (in the 2005) sums it up. Emergency lighting must come on when the power to regular lighting is interrupted. It does not matter if the circuit is dedicated or on the lighting circuit, as long as a means exists to cause the emergency illumination to energize when regular lighting power fails.
> 
> In my opinion, the easiest way to do this is to wire the EM and exit lights to the un-switched side of the lighting circuit.


 
I agree, closest lighting circuit ahead of the switch is the easiest, but in situations where there are more than one lighting circuits in one room (I think Three) a dedicated emergency lighting circuit is acceptable.


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## dawgs

Installing on local lighting circuits is the most efficient way to run them.


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## Bob Badger

Emergency Exit signs are not 'emergency _lighting_ they can be tapped off any circuit or run dedicated.

If you think they are emergency lighting do you also think an inspector would let you leave out emergency lighting in an area that has an exit sign?


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## McClary’s Electrical

In VA,,,they allow me to come off the unswitched side if the lighting circuit,,,UNLESS,,,,there are more than three lighting circuit! If more than three circuits,,,,the power must come from the panel on it's own circuit. That's how the AHJ around here makes me do it.


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## RePhase277

Bob Badger said:


> Emergency Exit signs are not 'emergency _lighting_ they can be tapped off any circuit or run dedicated.
> 
> If you think they are emergency lighting do you also think an inspector would let you leave out emergency lighting in an area that has an exit sign?


They are not emergency illumination in and of themselves, but the NEC considers them part of the total package.

700.16 (in the 2005): *Emergency Illumination* Emergency illumination shall include all required means of egress lighting, illuminated exit signs, and all other lights specified as necessary to provide illumination...


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## Bob Badger

InPhase277 said:


> They are not emergency illumination in and of themselves, but the NEC considers them part of the total package.
> 
> 700.16 (in the 2005): *Emergency Illumination* Emergency illumination shall include all required means of egress lighting, illuminated exit signs, and all other lights specified as necessary to provide illumination...


700.16 does not have anything to do with 700.12(F) which lays out the power supply requirements of EBUs and that section does not apply to self contained exit signs.


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## RePhase277

Bob Badger said:


> 700.16 does not have anything to do with 700.12(F) which lays out the power supply requirements of EBUs and that section does not apply to self contained exit signs.


I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say due to how you worded your post. Unit equipment is to be supplied by the local lighting circuit supplying the area where the unit equipment is located. 

The OP was asking about battery back-up LED exit lights, which is part of the emergency illumination.


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## drsparky

USAF sparky/CA C10 said:


> Thanks for the welcome. The facility is industrial and on an AF base. They currently have glow-in-the-dark exit signs up and were written up during a recent inspection (not sure if it was USAF code or CA that they were sited for).


Any time a Air Force inspector writes up a problem they provide a reference to what regulation was violated. Get a copy of the original inspectors report. If there is no reference there is no violation.:thumbsup:


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## lectricboy

mcclary's electrical said:


> In VA,,,they allow me to come off the unswitched side if the lighting circuit,,,UNLESS,,,,there are more than three lighting circuit! If more than three circuits,,,,the power must come from the panel on it's own circuit. That's how the AHJ around here makes me do it.


That's the way it is in KY.


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## Toronto Sparky

Separate circuit makes monthly testing so much easier


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## paul d.

Toronto Sparky said:


> Separate circuit makes monthly testing so much easier


 got the " test " button on side of fixture. we been using the egress lighting circuit to power up exit lites for many years now. this is big comm work.


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## william1978

USAF sparky/CA C10 said:


> Thanks for the welcome. The facility is industrial and on an AF base. They currently have glow-in-the-dark exit signs up and were written up during a recent inspection (not sure if it was USAF code or CA that they were sited for).


 Whats wrong with those nuculear exit signs? are these the ones your talking about?http://nuclearexits.com/20products.html


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## Benaround

USAF Sparky,

2005 NEC Article 700.12(F) says same circuit as in that area, with an 

exception, if three or more circuits in the area- then a dedicated circuit

from the same panel is allowed.

700.16 Emergency Illumination, includes 'exit signs'


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## aaron

Benaround said:


> USAF Sparky,
> 
> 2005 NEC Article 700.12(F) says same circuit as in that area, with an
> 
> exception, if three or more circuits in the area- then a dedicated circuit
> 
> from the same panel is allowed.
> 
> 700.16 Emergency Illumination, includes 'exit signs'


Thank you everyone for all your inputs and advice. 

In answer to the nuclear question I think they are considerably older than those in your link. Possibly even older than the 20 years the ad says they are good for.


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## McClary’s Electrical

paul d. said:


> got the " test " button on side of fixture. we been using the egress lighting circuit to power up exit lites for many years now. this is big comm work.


It's not legal to come off this circuit!!,,,,If it comes from an emergency panel,,,,,,,wired to an emergency generator, THEY WILL NEVER COME ON,,,,you're doing that wrong. You're supposed to come off lights in the general on the unswitched side of switch,,,,if there are less than three lighting circuits, if more than three,,,,you must put on it's own circuit.


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## Larry Fine

mcclary's electrical said:


> If more than three,,,,you must put on it's own circuit.


I believe that's permitted, but not required.


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## Toronto Sparky

I've hooked up combo exit/emergency lights to the emergency lighting circuit due to the fact there was regular emergency lighting in that area.
They put those packs in to allow for lighting if the generator fails as well.


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