# Getting started in lighting retrofits?



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

I was thinking of suggesting this type of work to my bosses. Recently at my doctor's office I looked up while on the table and noticed they had a raft of ancient 2x4 four-T12 fixtures. With the lights on all day switching to lights with two T5HOs and maybe occupancy sensors in less-used rooms, it could save a lot. The doctor is a colleague of my dad's and I asked him to mention it next time he worked with him.

So how do you guys go around selling people on a retro when they aren't specifically looking for one? Are these jobs generally by request or do you "pitch the benefits" ? I was thinking I'd go into the office, count the lights and find out how long they're on for, work out a monthly cost of operating, a maintenance estimate and with that, a ROI for the whole project plus available incentives from the local utility. I suppose I could tell them about better lighting making a nicer working environment - if they care that is. Maybe we could trial the new lights in just one room to see if they like it. If the job is a success I might be able to sell it to other places too.

One other thing for those of you who do this regularly, how often do you generally have to go back and replace burnt electronic ballasts? The old magnetic T12s are ugly but obviously are still in place because they refuse to die.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Seems like electronic ballasts burn out every 5 years or so.

But, as any sales thing, you gotta sell the sizzle, not the steak.

One thing I know for sure about lighting upgrades is that it makes the place look better. It's a hard sell when all people see is what they see every day. Go into a smoker's house, with their yellow walls. They don't really notice until they paint something and then, THEN it's a big deal.

But yep it's a tough sell. As you say, the old magnetic ballasts refuse to die hahahaha. You could try the environmentalist angle. There isn't one, but hey, painting a smoker's house isn't environmental either, but in the end, the customer's gonna be happy.

Will you save them money?
Will you make their office easier on the eyes?
Will you (in theory) decrease the amount of maintenance?

All good ideas, but it's a tough sell.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

You're really not retrofitting anything. At least I wouldn't. Cheaper to replace the whole fixture than retro anything with F12's



When one light goes bad, take the whole fixture out and replace it with a new t-8. Once he/she sees the light, and _potential_ energy savings, they usually sell themselves.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> You're really not retrofitting anything. At least I wouldn't. Cheaper to replace the whole fixture than retro anything with F12's


Yeah I was hoping to rip out the old ones and put something like this in. They look nice and the quality of light is great.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I no longer attempt to sell upgrades from working T-12 fixtures. Those electro-magnetic ballasts will last for years, while the newer electronic ones seem to fail in 3-5 years. I know, because I use a Sharpie pen to write the date on the ballast label when we install it. 

I am holding the manufacturer's feet to the fire on them now. They guarantee those electronic pieces of junk for 5 years, and I have been returning more than I throw away on changeouts. I buy `em a case at a time, and end up returning 6 to 7 out of every case of 10 within the 5 year warranty period.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> I no longer attempt to sell upgrades from working T-12 fixtures. Those electro-magnetic ballasts will last for years, while the newer electronic ones seem to fail in 3-5 years. I know, because I use a Sharpie pen to write the date on the ballast label when we install it.
> 
> I am holding the manufacturer's feet to the fire on them now. They guarantee those electronic pieces of junk for 5 years, and I have been returning more than I throw away on changeouts. I buy `em a case at a time, and end up returning 6 to 7 out of every case of 10 within the 5 year warranty period.


I've heard people experience this, but my experience has been the opposite. I wonder if it's a quality of material thing. I NEVER have warranty work on ballasts. I've replaced a handful in 4 years. According to your experience I should have had plenty of opportunity by now.


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## desertbucks (Feb 19, 2011)

Here in AZ we as contractors have to go through a training coarse and be approved by our local power company to be a trade allie for them. We then can go to local business and offer a rebate from power company and a proposal to retrofiet the T12 to T8 lamps. We have to fill out the application and send it to the power company for approval so the can reserve the rebate money for that job. Rebate will be about 4-6 weeks out. We also as a third party can take the rebate if the customer chooses that option which is less out of pocket for them.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Lightman has been doing retros. I bet he'll chime in with some advice. I have had as good of luck selling them as I could selling pictures of naked girls to Elton John.


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## oldschoolvdub (Jun 10, 2007)

Everyone wants to save a buck and likes to feel like they are helping the environment. But it seems that no one wants to pay the price of buying new fixtures. I also don't like to use cheap products because I don't like call backs. 

I think in your situation you they will probably like the fact that switching from older style magnetic ballasts to electronic ballasts, you will have a potentially quieter, flicker-free light system that is energy efficient. The newer ballasts operate at a much higher frequency than old ones, the reason why many people complain of headaches while being around fluorescent lights. 

Another thing to sell them on is the use of timers, occupancy sensors, and dimmers. I heard a crazy fact the other day that just by putting a dimmer in you automatically save yourself 4% a year because they don't run at 100% when at full power.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> I've heard people experience this, but my experience has been the opposite. I wonder if it's a quality of material thing. I NEVER have warranty work on ballasts. I've replaced a handful in 4 years. According to your experience I should have had plenty of opportunity by now.


Raise your hand if this response was NOT predictable. Seeing no hands.....:laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Lighting Retro said:


> I've heard people experience this, but my experience has been the opposite. I wonder if it's a quality of material thing. I NEVER have warranty work on ballasts. I've replaced a handful in 4 years. According to your experience I should have had plenty of opportunity by now.


Please tell us what ballast you are using that doesn't fail.


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