# When is fire caulk required



## william1978

That's in the building code.


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## jwjrw

william1978 said:


> That's in the building code.


 
Kinda thought that. Is it both single and two story houses?


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## william1978

jwjrw said:


> Kinda thought that. Is it both single and two story houses?


 I'm not a 100% sure, but I do believe it would be.


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## drsparky

Building codes differ, check with your local inspector.


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## jwjrw

Im trying to but he hasnt responded to this thread yet!:laughing:


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## Ohmbre

Believe it has something to do with the fire rating of the wall, 1 hour or 2 hour. We typically don't but the building inspectors sometimes require it after the electrical inspector has already passed the rough.


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## s.kelly

I'm much more commercial and industrial experienced, but from what I have seen I would agree that the rating of the wall is what is going to dictate when it is needed.


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## jwjrw

Went back out there Monday(1 hour away) and caulked the 3 holes in the up penetrations. Walked outside and caulked the 1/16" inch gap around the flex(laying on cardboard in the mud)....Look over and see the a/c lines with 3" gaps above the lines and 2" on the sides not caulked for "Rodent" penetration....Seems like someone might be worried about job security and is studying his building codes so he can catch ANY problems he finds(which he should) BUT.....I've never seen a "Rodent crawl thru an 1/16" hole around flex...Insects Im sure..but rodents?...Not likely. I missed the firecaulk in the up penetrations and Im sure he is correct about the gaps around the flex but the hole the flex is thru is a tight fit. Probably a good idea as I caulk holes that actually have a gap. At least I have a job to finish!:laughing:


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## Mr. Sparkle

Every hole through the top or bottom plate or through a fire wall in every dwelling here.


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## nitro71

Houses don't get fire caulk here in Eastern WA.


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## jwjrw

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Every hole through the top or bottom plate or through a fire wall in every dwelling here.


Only the top plate here. I do the bottom to keep insects out.


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## wirenut1110

Your inspector may not have actually meant "fire caulk" but rather just some spray foam insulation to seal the penetrations for air and smoke. 

Spray foam polyurethane insulation has like a 2-3 hour fire rating.


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## MarkyMark

Draft stopping is what they call it around here. It falls under the insulation portion of the building inspection. In many jurisdictions, each individual trade inspector is in charge of enforcing it for each trade, since once the wall insulation is up, it is difficult for the building inspector to make sure each individual hole has been properly sealed. No need to use actual fire caulk, but in many jurisdictions, you do need to make sure whatever you use is rated for sealing a hole with NM cable (I.E. no yellow spray foam.)


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## raider1

wirenut1110 said:


> Spray foam polyurethane insulation has like a 2-3 hour fire rating.


I have never seen spray foam polyurethane insulation that had any fire rating.

Draft stopping, which is what is done in the holes in the top and bottom plates of homes is not required to have a fire rating.

Draft stopping is done to seal openings in walls to try to eliminate the ability of air to move between spaces and therefore create a draft in a fire situation.

Chris


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## nolabama

they make a fire foam - like "Great stuff" or Hilti foam but its a sorta orange and it gets a fire rating - least the can says it does, and passed our inspection


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## AFOREMA1

nolabama said:


> they make a fire foam - like "Great stuff" or Hilti foam but its a sorta orange and it gets a fire rating - least the can says it does, and passed our inspection


I use Great Stuff never had an issue.


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## jwjrw

raider1 said:


> I have never seen spray foam polyurethane insulation that had any fire rating.
> 
> Draft stopping, which is what is done in the holes in the top and bottom plates of homes is not required to have a fire rating.
> 
> Draft stopping is done to seal openings in walls to try to eliminate the ability of air to move between spaces and therefore create a draft in a fire situation.
> 
> Chris


 
The red can states on it that it is flammable. But they do make a fire rated foam can you can get at the box stores and my parts house.


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## jwjrw

wirenut1110 said:


> Your inspector may not have actually meant "fire caulk" but rather just some spray foam insulation to seal the penetrations for air and smoke.
> 
> Spray foam polyurethane insulation has like a 2-3 hour fire rating.


 
Nope penetrations thru the top plate must be fire caulked. Per building code.


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## jwjrw

MarkyMark said:


> Draft stopping is what they call it around here. It falls under the insulation portion of the building inspection. In many jurisdictions, each individual trade inspector is in charge of enforcing it for each trade, since once the wall insulation is up, it is difficult for the building inspector to make sure each individual hole has been properly sealed. No need to use actual fire caulk, but in many jurisdictions, you do need to make sure whatever you use is rated for sealing a hole with NM cable (I.E. no yellow spray foam.)


 
In the county I work mostly in and this one both say fire rated caulk. Whether or not they are wrong I do not know for sure. No big deal its like 2.00 a tube.


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## jwjrw

AFOREMA1 said:


> I use Great Stuff never had an issue.


 
The red can says its flammable. (I looked at it at big blue today)Maybe your building codes dont require it or maybe all I really need is any caulk etc but they want fire caulk and with the great stuff in a red can being flammable it wont work here.


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## jwjrw

nolabama said:


> they make a fire foam - like "Great stuff" or Hilti foam but its a sorta orange and it gets a fire rating - least the can says it does, and passed our inspection


Its like 8.00 a can here and I can get the tubes for 2.00......I tend to get the foam everywhere when I use it. Maybe I'm just better with a caulk gun.


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## AFOREMA1

jwjrw said:


> The red can says its flammable. (I looked at it at big blue today)Maybe your building codes dont require it or maybe all I really need is any caulk etc but they want fire caulk and with the great stuff in a red can being flammable it wont work here.


*GREAT STUFF PRO*™ Gaps & Cracks Insulating Foam Sealant is a minimal-expanding, single component polyurethane foam sealant for general purpose building envelope air sealing. *As the first foam sealant to be recognized as a fireblock*, GREAT STUFF PRO™ Gaps & Cracks resists the free passage of flames to other areas of the building through concealed spaces. Identifiable orange color. *(RED CAN)*

http://www.hallmann-sales.com/pdf/foam-sealants/DOW-GapsAndCracksFireblock-HS.pdf

http://www.hallmann-sales.com/foam-sealants/great-stuff-pro-gaps-and-cracks-foam.htm


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## Ohmbre

You gotta read the back of the can of great stuff. I believe it says for gaps 1/8" or less.

Try this next time you want to use this product spray some foam out, let it harden apply a match. It will burn.


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## AFOREMA1

Ohmbre said:


> You gotta read the back of the can of great stuff. I believe it says for gaps 1/8" or less.
> 
> Try this next time you want to use this product spray some foam out, let it harden apply a match. It will burn.


No its good for gaps up too 3 inches. And yes it is flammable, it is a fire blocker or inhibitor it just slows the spread of fire and smoke. it is rated to operate in -200 to +200 degrees. flammable after 156 degrees. Perfectly suitable for filling gaps in residential apps around here.


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## jwjrw

AFOREMA1 said:


> No its good for gaps up too 3 inches. And yes it is flammable, it is a fire blocker or inhibitor it just slows the spread of fire and smoke. it is rated to operate in -200 to +200 degrees. flammable after 156 degrees. Perfectly suitable for filling gaps in residential apps around here.


I dont believe it is a fire block or inhibitor.Ill go read a can today but I bet it dosent say anything about being safe to be used as a firestop. If it was it would say fire block and they would not make the foam that does say fireblock on it. It is only for sealing gaps here. Common sense tells me that if its flammable it should not be used as a fireblock. I MAY be wrong but I and the inspectors and many people on here agree it is not legal to be used as a firecaulk.


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## r_merc

jwjrw said:


> I dont believe it is a fire block or inhibitor.Ill go read a can today but I bet it dosent say anything about being safe to be used as a firestop. If it was it would say fire block and they would not make the foam that does say fireblock on it. It is only for sealing gaps here. Common sense tells me that if its flammable it should not be used as a fireblock. I MAY be wrong but I and the inspectors and many people on here agree it is not legal to be used as a firecaulk.



Great Stuff makes a spray foam that is orange and has a fire rating. The Yellow foam does not.

Around here draft stopping is from the crawl up to the first floor. What that means you can use whatever caulk you want to(silicone,white painters caulk, the cheap stuff). Above that the penetrations have to be sealed with a material that has a fire rating. If you have a basement (almost non-existent around here) then all of it has to be fire rated.


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## AFOREMA1

jwjrw said:


> I dont believe it is a fire block or inhibitor.Ill go read a can today but I bet it dosent say anything about being safe to be used as a firestop. If it was it would say fire block and they would not make the foam that does say fireblock on it. It is only for sealing gaps here. Common sense tells me that if its flammable it should not be used as a fireblock. I MAY be wrong but I and the inspectors and many people on here agree it is not legal to be used as a firecaulk.


You and all the inspectors can agree but as with pricing what does that matter if you are in different areas? 

And as far as not believing it says that did you read the link for the product or my post it says right in the ad I posted and spec sheet.

And do not read the can at the store unless it is Great stuff *Pro* not usually what home depot is selling, they sell the regular stuff mostly. 

*GREAT STUFF PRO™ Gaps & Cracks Insulating Foam Sealant* is a minimal-expanding, single component polyurethane foam sealant for general purpose building envelope air sealing. A*s the first foam sealant to be recognized as a fireblock, GREAT STUFF PRO™ Gaps & Cracks resists the free passage of flames to other areas of the building through concealed spaces. Identifiable orange color.*


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## MarkyMark

A good explanation of "fire-stopping" vs. "fire-blocking."

http://www.firestoppingcaulk.com/firestopping_vs_fireblocking.pdf


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## MarkyMark

And also "fire-blocking" vs. "draft-stopping."

http://www.firestoppingcaulk.com/fireblocking_vs_draftstopping.pdf


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## AFOREMA1

MarkyMark said:


> And also "fire-blocking" vs. "draft-stopping."
> 
> http://www.firestoppingcaulk.com/fireblocking_vs_draftstopping.pdf


Good links Mark.


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## 5486

Ohmbre said:


> Believe it has something to do with the fire rating of the wall, 1 hour or 2 hour. We typically don't but the building inspectors sometimes require it after the electrical inspector has already passed the rough.


 
Exactly, it is by the fire rating of the wall.


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## jwjrw

AFOREMA1 said:


> You and all the inspectors can agree but as with pricing what does that matter if you are in different areas?
> 
> And as far as not believing it says that did you read the link for the product or my post it says right in the ad I posted and spec sheet.
> 
> And do not read the can at the store unless it is Great stuff *Pro* not usually what home depot is selling, they sell the regular stuff mostly.
> 
> *GREAT STUFF PRO™ Gaps & Cracks Insulating Foam Sealant* is a minimal-expanding, single component polyurethane foam sealant for general purpose building envelope air sealing. A*s the first foam sealant to be recognized as a fireblock, GREAT STUFF PRO™ Gaps & Cracks resists the free passage of flames to other areas of the building through concealed spaces. Identifiable orange color.*


I did say the red can:whistling2:. And no matter what the can says I'm simply saying they do not allow flammable material to be used for fire block in upper penetrations here. And I get the fire rated tubes for less money than either can of great stuff, so even if legal I would'nt use it. Heck it's not even in the NEC so really the contractor should be doing it....Ok maybe not but 2 of the ones I work with do.


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## codeone

Sorry been in classes lately. Hope this helps and is not to late for your job.
Its from the NC Residential code based on the ICC codes.:thumbsup:

R602.8 Fireblocking required.​​​​Fireblocking shall be provided
to cut off all concealed draft openings (both vertical and horizontal)
and to form an effective fIre barrier between stories, and
between a top story and the roof space. Fireblocking shall be
provided in wood-frame construction in the following locations.
1. In concealed spaces of stud walls and partitions, including
furred spaces and parallel rows of studs or staggered
studs; as follows:
1.1. Vertically at the ceiling and floor levels.
1.2. Horizontally at intervals not exceeding 10 feet
(3048 mm).
2. At all interconnections between concealed vertical and
horizontal spaces such as occur at soffits, drop ceilings
and cove ceilings.
3. In concealed spaces between stair stringers at the top and
bottom of the run. Enclosed spaces under stairs shall
comply with Section R311.2.2.​
I ​​​​4. At openings around vents, pipes, ducts, cables and wires
at ceiling and floor level, with an approved material to
resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.
5. For the fireblocking of chimneys and fireplaces, see Section
R1003.19.
6. Fireblocking of cornices of a two-family dwelling is​
required at the line of dwelling unit separation.


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## jwjrw

codeone said:


> Sorry been in classes lately. Hope this helps and is not to late for your job.​
> Its from the NC Residential code based on the ICC codes.:thumbsup:​
> 
> R602.8 Fireblocking required.
> Fireblocking shall be provided
> to cut off all concealed draft openings (both vertical and horizontal)
> and to form an effective fIre barrier between stories, and
> between a top story and the roof space. Fireblocking shall be
> provided in wood-frame construction in the following locations.
> 1. In concealed spaces of stud walls and partitions, including
> furred spaces and parallel rows of studs or staggered
> studs; as follows:
> 1.1. Vertically at the ceiling and floor levels.
> 1.2. Horizontally at intervals not exceeding 10 feet
> (3048 mm).
> 2. At all interconnections between concealed vertical and
> horizontal spaces such as occur at soffits, drop ceilings
> and cove ceilings.
> 3. In concealed spaces between stair stringers at the top and
> bottom of the run. Enclosed spaces under stairs shall
> comply with Section R311.2.2.​​I ​
> ​
> 4. At openings around vents, pipes, ducts, cables and wires
> at ceiling and floor level, with an approved material to
> resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.
> 5. For the fireblocking of chimneys and fireplaces, see Section
> R1003.19.
> 6. Fireblocking of cornices of a two-family dwelling is​required at the line of dwelling unit separation.
> ​




No problem. Thanks for responding!
The reason I always thought it was for two story houses and not single story is because it says "between stories and between the top story and the roof" Seems like they would say between the top plate and the roof if they meant single story houses...Why say the top story?(if there is only 1 story) Your coworker believes it does mean on all dwellings so I did it but do you think the wording leaves some question as to its 1 story or 2 story homes? It would be nice if they said every up and down penetration or something similar. 
​


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