# 20' ceiling on staircase



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

How would you change this light ? 20 feet up a staircase. 2 by 4 troffer. Not really sure if an ext. ladder will work well


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

extension ladder


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Baker scaffold.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Baker scaffold.


Dittos. :thumbsup:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

This looks three feet wide, wouldn't scaffolding be a lot of trouble to set up? 

Majewski posted this ladder which would be ideal with limited space to maneuver










http://www.wernerco.com/us/en/view/Products/Climbing Equipment/Extension Ladders/D6200-3/D6224-3 

But once you find the right step so the angle is right, it's cake, and the ladder can't kick out from under you.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Are you replacing it or repairing it? I'd throw some of the line voltage no ballast LED tubes of the right color and no one should be back up there for a while. I vote for the extension ladder with some of the foam pads on the top.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

WronGun said:


> How would you change this light ? 20 feet up a staircase. 2 by 4 troffer. Not really sure if an ext. ladder will work well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Extension ladder is really the only practical way to work on it.
Please, while you are up there. Rework those ceiling tees and center that fixture.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I can live with the tiles, replace the exit.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

It might be over exposed but, it looks like all of the lamps are lit in that fixture.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Then it dawned me that maybe its the photo. I was thinking it was one of those old tube light units that had bleached out all the red in the lens.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Suncoast Power said:


> Please, while you are up there. Rework those ceiling tees and center that fixture.


You gotta be kidding me. I would get that done fast and then kiss Mother Earth once I got back down.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Can it be done from above?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

nrp3 said:


> I can live with the tiles, replace the exit.


Yep.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd be afraid of whats up there, no independent support and god knows what for wiring. Sometimes I don't want to know.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

This is a building where I've replaced around 30 of these with integrated LED troffers , so this whole fixture needs to come down and new one goes up... It will be a big challenge on an extension ladder.

I actually purchased various exit signs to bring into the owner and hopefully up-sell another job. He didn't jump on it yet. 


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

For that one, it might be less awkward to replace the ballast and put in LED tubes.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The Little Giant ladder has a platform accessory that would be perfect for this situation. Just stand the ladder up like and extension ladder and stand on the platform under the light and do your work.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Did I mention I hate extension ladders ? Some of these fixtures took some serious maneuvering to get them out of the tile... It's obvious that I really don't have many options tho .... Also, these LED tubes will probably spark a question of why I didn't do all of them like that. 


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

WronGun said:


> Did I mention I hate extension ladders ? Some of these fixtures took some serious maneuvering to get them out of the tile... It's obvious that I really don't have many options tho .... Also, these LED tubes will probably spark a question of why I didn't do all of them like that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The price point for lamps and ballasts compared to new fixtures is similar.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

And extension ladder in that position would feel very safe, it can't kick out nor fall to either side. You would have a wall on each side to hold onto and balance yourself.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> And extension ladder in that position would feel very safe, it can't kick out nor fall to either side. You would have a wall on each side to hold onto and balance yourself.




I agree... But that will get me comfortable to the end of the fixture closest to the wall... I need to be able to step out to the opposite side , so I can pop the fixture out , disconnect the chains, etc.. I suppose it's worth a try but I know that feeling of trying to step off and away from the ladder to reach something. These fixtures are old and have some weight behind them 


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I use ladder levelers that sit on stairs and I can put more ladders anywhere in the stairwell. Can you do that and have a helper?

Ghetto equivalent is cinder blocks....


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Majewski said:


> I use ladder levelers that sit on stairs and I can put more ladders anywhere in the stairwell. Can you do that and have a helper?
> 
> Ghetto equivalent is cinder blocks....




I see what your saying , so I can attack it going up to the side of the fixture rather than the end of the fixture. This may be a good option ... Set up 2 ladders side by side 


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

That's what I've done. It's a slow process and iffy alone but you can get your
Body in the areas you need.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

There is an attic way above this floor , I just have no idea what the access looks like up there and even if the light is accessible from above 


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

It's probably a portal to a demonic dimension where they torture tradesmen.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Taking the 20' height in consideration and that the diagonal of the ladder would need to be 20" or longer and the narrow width of the stairwell and doorway (3') would you be able to get a 14' long extension ladder in the space?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would use an extension ladder. Set the feet on one step and lean it against the wall. Use a shirt or something over the top so you don't mark the wall.

I would take that fixture down and move it to the top of the stairs so there isn't this issue next time


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If you have a long scaffold plank, you could run the plank so one end sits on a rung of the ladder, and one end sits on a step. Done right, this should be pretty safe and secure, as long as you don't step off the plank. Done wrong, have a helper at the bottom of the stairs dial 91 and wait. I am not sure how you'd set up with a harness, if you can remove the adjacent tile and clip onto anything up there, that would be a must.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> If you have a long scaffold plank, you could run the plank so one end sits on a rung of the ladder, and one end sits on a step. Done right, this should be pretty safe and secure, as long as you don't step off the plank. Done wrong, have a helper at the bottom of the stairs dial 91 and wait. I am not sure how you'd set up with a harness, if you can remove the adjacent tile and clip onto anything up there, that would be a must.


Back in the day that would have been a very common solution to the problem, now it isn't something that a safety guy would want to let fly.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

When I was young I had to change a bulb in a stairway similar to that but not that high. I scaled the walls by putting my feet against the walls. The home owner thought I was nuts but she was happy to get the fixture lit up again.

I don't know why the hell anyway thinks that placing lights in those places is a good idea. Think people then install. LOL


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> When I was young I had to change a bulb in a stairway similar to that but not that high. I scaled the walls by putting my feet against the walls. The home owner thought I was nuts but she was happy to get the fixture lit up again.
> 
> I don't know why the hell anyway thinks that placing lights in those places is a good idea. Think people then install. LOL


I think most schools and hospitals that had similar circumstances have switched over to wall mounted fixtures. Those 6 man hour lamp changes get expensive.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

3D asked if it could be done from above. What's on the other side of those walls (left and right), is there office space or something you could set up a smaller ladder in and access it from the other side. Get it all unhooked, disconnected and rip it out pass it down to helper. 
Just an idea.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Back in the day that would have been a very common solution to the problem, now it isn't something that a safety guy would want to let fly.


you mean like this, last month:whistling2:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

wcord said:


> you mean like this, last month:whistling2:




That would be the dial 91 and wait setup


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

wcord said:


> you mean like this, last month:whistling2:


Yup, pretty much. But that will get you thrown off some jobs nowadays in our liberally litigious society of candyasses. I've been called a dinosaur for doing things like that.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

looks to me like a ladder(whatever length) leaned on the wall and the steps should reach it. kinda like what hack said. it would be an odd angle to work from but you should be able to reach everything.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

splatz said:


> If you have a long scaffold plank, you could run the plank so one end sits on a rung of the ladder, and one end sits on a step. Done right, this should be pretty safe and secure, as long as you don't step off the plank. Done wrong, have* a helper at the bottom of the stairs dial 91 and wait*. I am not sure how you'd set up with a harness, if you can remove the adjacent tile and clip onto anything up there, that would be a must.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

nrp3 said:


> Are you replacing it or repairing it? I'd throw some of the line voltage no ballast LED tubes of the right color and no one should be back up there for a while. I vote for the extension ladder with some of the foam pads on the top.


This is the best option. I didn't even know driverless LED tubes were made. Good advice  .


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

What's the possibility of working on it from the room on the left? 8ft ladder and reach over the wall?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Some people have concerns of line voltage at the tombstones. Worked well so far. You need to have one end not shunted L/N to feed it. Sometimes you need to bring new tombstones. Electronic ballasts are great but their life expectancy isn't so why go back up there in five yrs if you don't have to. We'll see how the life expectancy of LED pans out.


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

3DDesign said:


> What's the possibility of working on it from the room on the left? 8ft ladder and reach over the wall?


that's what I was going yo say. you know that if one of the rooms to left or right isn't exterior wall it will have low ceilings and the fixture is very close.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Extension ladder braced against the top step at the shallowest angle possible. Put a work platform on it like Hack suggested. You would have a very solid work surface, with a minimum of balancing and you'd be able to safely reach both sides of the fixture for any rework needed.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> Extension ladder braced against the top step at the shallowest angle possible. Put a work platform on it like Hack suggested. You would have a very solid work surface, with a minimum of balancing and you'd be able to safely reach both sides of the fixture for any rework needed.


This is one of those projects in which we spend more time talking about it than it will take to throw the ladder up there and do the work :laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Yeah, the hardest part about this job would probably be carrying the ladder into the building without hitting anything.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

It would be harder trying to recover from a broken leg and neck [emoji856][emoji856][emoji856]


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> It would be harder trying to recover from a broken leg and neck [emoji856][emoji856][emoji856]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's no where to go. This is like the most optimal situation to use an extension ladder. It can't kick out, it can't slide to either side, and you have walls to hold onto and balance yourself. I would feel very safe.

Sometimes you gotta just quit thinking about it and get up there and do it.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like you would be able to get a ladder as shallow as almost 45°. There's nowhere for the ladder to fall to, and it would be much too steep to tip backwards. 

If you put a platform on it you've got a stop to brace yourself against, heck you could even harness off to with a retractable if you're that concerned.

I'm the first one to condemn dodgy ladder work, but this sincerely looks like it could be done with very minimal risk. You'd have more chance falling from an extension ladder set up properly on the side of a building.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> There's no where to go. This is like the most optimal situation to use an extension ladder. It can't kick out, it can't slide to either side, and you have walls to hold onto and balance yourself. I would feel very safe.
> 
> Sometimes you gotta just quit thinking about it and get up there and do it.


Yep. A two hour job usually takes fifteen minutes and a fifteen minute job usually takes two hours.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Can we send an ET member to film when you do this? I want to give commentary as you're doing it.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

99cents said:


> Yep. A two hour job usually takes fifteen minutes and a fifteen minute job usually takes two hours.


It honestly pisses me off when we're going to do a job and one of my coworkers is prattling on about how easy it's going to be. You do realize this day is gonna go horrible now, right?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Big John said:


> It honestly pisses me off when we're going to do a job and one of my coworkers is prattling on about how easy it's going to be. You do realize this day is gonna go horrible now, right?


I don't allow the "E" word. It always triples the headache of any job/task. Murphy's law is no joke!


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

3DDesign said:


> What's the possibility of working on it from the room on the left? 8ft ladder and reach over the wall?


I could swear I read something like that already:laughing:


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## jsmart84 (Nov 20, 2011)

This would have been a easy swap . I would prob end up selling customer a led flat panel troughs for a long lasting replacement .



HackWork said:


> This is one of those projects in which we spend more time talking about it than it will take to throw the ladder up there and do the work :laughing:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

It's easy if there's proper independent support there, no wiring issues, etc. The dedicated led fixtures look nice too.


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## Anathera (Feb 16, 2016)

How about ext ladder with little giant and a shorter ie saFer walk board between them? Or helper on little giant you on ext?


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

If you look at the pic closer it appears there is a landing at the light. Look at the hand rails. Not a big deal for an extension ladder.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I have to do a 20' light right now.... But I have a lift! Haha


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I stay with my first thought that access for the ladder could be a problem without seeing the rest of the area.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I would like to purchase a smaller scaffolding setup, like the drywallers use. The challenge is finding a wider setup that I could put a 10' ladder on... Any ideas ?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I've found some awesome aluminum sets on Amazon!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

WronGun said:


> I would like to purchase a smaller scaffolding setup, like the drywallers use. The challenge is finding a wider setup that I could put a 10' ladder on... Any ideas ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The problem with 3' wide scaffolds is that once you get to 9' you have to tie them off. A 5' wide scaffold can only go 15' without a tie off.

3 x the width is the rule


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It looks like a normal 6 foot baker scaffold has a 29 inch wide platform. 10 foot high ladders seem to have a 30 inch wide base.

I guess you could put a piece of 3/4" thick 34" wide plywood on top of the platform to put the ladder on.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The problem with 3' wide scaffolds is that once you get to 9' you have to tie them off. A 5' wide scaffold can only go 15' without a tie off.
> 
> 3 x the width is the rule


You know they have outriggers for various scaffold when tying off isn't in the cards.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes looks like the 29" setup with some 3/4" wood going across to support ladder feet will do the trick !


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> You know they have outriggers for various scaffold when tying off isn't in the cards.



Sure but that defeats the purpose of using a 3' wide scaffold.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> MechanicalDVR said:
> 
> 
> > You know they have outriggers for various scaffold when tying off isn't in the cards.
> ...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Dennis Alwon said:
> 
> 
> > The mention of outriggers was in response to your height comment, not the scaffold width. But on those terms if it's in that narrow a space how could it fall over?
> ...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> MechanicalDVR said:
> 
> 
> > I am think of residential jobs where you need to move it around. The outriggers would be an issue
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Dennis, the outriggers have wheels too. But I agree with mech, there's little reason to move one around in resi.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Dennis, the outriggers have wheels too. But I agree with mech, there's little reason to move one around in resi.


I've worked in some huge houses and other than the entry foyers or solariums most ceilings in other areas were less than 12'.


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

Get a trampoline, and just work faster. You should have that done in 4 bounces, 6 if it's your first time.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

daks said:


> Get a trampoline, and just work faster. You should have that done in 4 bounces, 6 if it's your first time.


Must be a Canadian thing like those horizontal panels...


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> You know they have outriggers for various scaffold when tying off isn't in the cards.



Those photos look great as sales literature...

BUT.

At such heights, I'd be rented a scissor lift -- with either hard rubber (slab concrete) wheels -- or pneumatic tires for off road surfaces.

You even get a power supply thrown in the mix.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

telsa said:


> Those photos look great as sales literature...
> 
> BUT.
> 
> ...


That would go great on the staircase that the OP needs it on, or the front foyer of the houses he works in.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Anyone ever have to use scaffold for a 17-20' fixture but all alone?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Anyone ever have to use scaffold for a 17-20' fixture but all alone?


I would probably just rent one of those Little Giant skyscrapers. They go up to 21' and are much easier to bring in and setup than scaffolding. Two men are optimal, but it only takes 5 minutes to bring it in and set up.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I'm not sure I would trust setting that up alone and removing/installing fans alone.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> I'm not sure I would trust setting that up alone and removing/installing fans alone.


Setting it up alone is a pain but doable. As for installing a fan, there is no difference if you're on an 8' ladder or 18'.

One thing about the Little Giant is that it is ANSI rated for 300lbs on each side, so you can have someone else helping to hold a big fixture.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

That's a good point, thank you. Now another question... If I wanted the 20', would it fit in the transit?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

There's a 15', 17', and 21'. Since these are A-frame ladders, those heights are actual (unlike extension ladder heights usually being 3' less).

The 17' should be enough to reach a 21-22' ceiling. It folds to less then 10'.

Go to the website, you'll see a video of a guy setting it up real easily.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> Those photos look great as sales literature...
> 
> BUT.
> 
> ...


It all depend son the duration of the job, renting a lift isn't always in the budget for a service call. Often the location (factory, warehouse) had their own scaffolding or lift box for a forklift. If a lift came out of our shop then you needed a trailer to get it to the job, still not always practical.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Ok cool! I know I have 2 sizes of little giants now and can do em alone. Having the one that goes to 17 sounds like a good alternative to scaffold. Just did a job today where she wants me to bid 20' chandelier and fan...then chandelier is over a weird stairwell and it's no fun.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It looks like there is enough of a ledge to put a pick on. Then lean an extension ladder again the far wall to put the other end of the pick on.

Am I spelling pick right?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

No idea. What's a pick to you? I have a wedge/leveler I use sometimes...

Of course this is closer to the middle so it's no fun to reach lol.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> I'm not sure I would trust setting that up alone and removing/installing fans alone.


I've never had to set up scaffold alone but have worked on a lift many times swapping high bays, heaters, and various types of motors and that type thing. How heavy can a fan (other than a big ass fan) be?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've never had to set up scaffold alone but have worked on a lift many times swapping high bays, heaters, and various types of motors and that type thing. How heavy can a fan (other than a big ass fan) be?


I've had some pretty difficult fans before and bringing them up the ladder and fanangling them has been iffy. Never dropped anything or fallen though!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> No idea. What's a pick to you? I have a wedge/leveler I use sometimes...
> 
> Of course this is closer to the middle so it's no fun to reach lol.


A pick plank:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Oh neat, I've never used em!!!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> Oh neat, I've never used em!!!


Very popular in some locations. I think every contractor in NJ has them and just about all of them keep them on top of their vans.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Like this guy?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I seriously have no idea how to turn the pictures.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> I seriously have no idea how to turn the pictures.


Yup typical in NJ.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I saw a hot chick driving a Dodge Ram recently with twice as much as that van. It was insane.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> I saw a hot chick driving a Dodge Ram recently with twice as much as that van. It was insane.


Probably a Portuguese tranny!


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Not around here lol.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

If you lean an extension ladder against the far wall, you can set an expandable pick on one of the rungs of the ladder and the other end on the ledge.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> If you lean an extension ladder against the far wall, you can set an expandable pick on one of the rungs of the ladder and the other end on the ledge.


Perfect! I can use one of these and get my ladder against the wall and use 2 picks.....so now I'll just buy some picks.

The only extensions I have are 3 tiers..... I don't have a small extension to use, I could just lean a 10' step against the wall?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Adjustable plank:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I'll see what I can find out of the Werner catalog. That's what I have a good price with.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> I'll see what I can find out of the Werner catalog. That's what I have a good price with.


Like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Werner-8-ft-Aluminum-Extension-Plank-PA208/100658407


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## DBauguess2 (Sep 25, 2016)

I would lean and extension ladder against the wall with the feet on the stairs at whatever angle is comfortable for you. The stairs would keep the ladder from slipping from underneath you. Good luck! 

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