# Ferrules



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Ferrules when panel building, yea, or nah ?


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Its a good thing IMO, especially on certain terminal blocks. BUT!! if panel building is your job, then you need to account for the extra cost. (Time & Material)

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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I have not found them necessary on terminal blocks because I don't get stray strands making trouble with terminal blocks. (I mean DIN style terminal blocks.) 

On relay bases where the screw terminations are prone to shorts from stray strands, maybe / probably. 

On pain in the ass equipment with ridiculously crowded shallow terminals, hell ya.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

With ferrules you can usually just push the wire in the push in terminals, where as with stranded you must use a screw driver to insert the wires. I've seen the novice cause damage prying around.

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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

I don't use ferrules, but saw one guy doing it. I think it's required in Europe though


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Nice on panel devices with crowded screw terminals such as PLCs. One stray strand can cause a lot of grief. Just as an FYI they also make ferrules that accept 2 conductors. Sometimes these will save you time trying to shove 2 fine-strand conductors in the same hole. I find the cost and the time to be neither here nor there, but I don't often use the on all connections in a panel build. There will be devices in a panel that require stakons, ferrules take the same amount of time.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I generally match what is there, but if going from scratch I would use them. More importantly is the numbering scheme; if I am going to putting ID numbers on the wires (which is necessary), then the extra 30 seconds to put a ferrule or sta-kon on does not even show up on the radar.

Cheers
John


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

I took in a ferrel cat once.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Never used them, but have seen them. On 20awg and lower they are good if you're going into a TB.

Anything larger, there's no reason to use them IMO.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Since a good part of my work is add-ons and various changes, I don't use them. 

The only way to change a label is to cut the ferrule off and it's difficult to add another wire to a terminal block is there's already a ferrule there.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Some places have had 'em spec'd. Then it's a matter of what they want to see and where. Most jobs I've been around, they aren't asked for.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Ferrules should normally be used on spring retention terminals. I use them on equipment terminations all of the time. I like to use ferrules on equipment that is to be disconnected, relocated and reconnected. They save the wire ends from becoming frayed to where the wires will not go in the terminal without reworking the ends. 

Using ferrules on SO cord, makes installing twistlock plugs and receptacles much easier.

Time and cost are trivial to use them.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

That's one out of 8 people so far.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Ferrules are definitely not Code. It should be obvious. Round peg in flat or square hole that is designed to accept a soft ductile metal where it cracks the oxidation then smears both metal surfaces together so we get a joint wire microohms of resistance and meets the design contact area. Ferrule joints don’t do any of that. Technically you’re not even supposed to reuse ends because they are deformed. Fine strands tend to fray or break the worst. So the fraying argument is dead wrong. We all still do it though because reterminating the end is time consuming and usually the ends aren’t that bad.

If you are going to be routinely changing wiring there are tons of much better options. First off install connectors for frequent plugging/unplugging. ThAts what plugs do. Or use lugs. That’s what most people do on motors. Or forked or ring terminals. Those are all flat so they work. Or get Phoenix Contact separable terminal strips. All of this is Code. The tiny 3-5 mm DIN rail terminals are meant for once and done or once in a few years where the wiring maybe gets disturbed three or four times in its life. If the panel shop cheaped out mount your own.

I keep ferrules on the truck for one customer.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

When I was building panels, I found them very handy for small conductors, which you run into quite frequently depending on the type of panel you're building.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

After crimping ferrules are not round and they will deform to fit a mechanical connection.

Yes, I would use rings or forks where they would work the best.

Few mechanical connectors are rated for fine strand conductors, so ferrules are helpful to use to keep the strands under the set screws. 

Most European equipment uses ferrels for all connections, even power terminations.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

varmit said:


> After crimping ferrules are not round and they will deform to fit a mechanical connection.
> 
> Yes, I would use rings or forks where they would work the best.
> 
> ...



Varmit, You work at a plant as an employee, or contract ? 

It seems like there is no doubt, it's best way to terminate wires, but unless it's spec'd by the engineering documents, most contract Electricians won't spend the time to do it. 

Your idea on cord and cap is a good use also.


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2015)

I always use crimped ferrules with stranded wiring in control panels.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

dronai said:


> Varmit, You work at a plant as an employee, or contract ?
> 
> It seems like there is no doubt, it's best way to terminate wires, but unless it's spec'd by the engineering documents, most contract Electricians won't spend the time to do it.
> 
> Your idea on cord and cap is a good use also.


I work for a contractor doing maintenance and upgrades at several different industrial plants. 

With a stock of ferrules and a good crimper, they really don't take much time to use,. If you are trying to poke stranded wire in a spring terminal, I believe that using ferrules can be faster.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I learned how to "Tin" the end of stranded wire when I attended Lee County Voc Tech back in 1975. They have little propane solder irons nowadays that you can refill from a spray can that make doing that out on a job site incredibly easier. It's the bomb for ending stranded wire into little baby European controls and terminal blocks.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Correction: Butane....



https://www.amazon.com/Weller-P2KC-Professional-Self-igniting-Soldering/dp/B000WOHSHM/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Propane+Soldering+Iron&qid=1575774625&sr=8-5


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Just installed a flow meter that the manufacture required ferules on the terminations or no warranty.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I learned how to "Tin" the end of stranded wire when I attended Lee County Voc Tech back in 1975. They have little propane solder irons nowadays that you can refill from a spray can that make doing that out on a job site incredibly easier. It's the bomb for ending stranded wire into little baby European controls and terminal blocks.


What ? Nah


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I worked a shut down at Michelin USA. They used ferrules on every terminal. 
I mentioned this before and got very little feedback. They were using the terminal pressure itself to crimp the ferrule onto the wire.
These were European style ferrules.

I looked for them back then and also had no luck.
Anyone ever use them? No crimper needed.
Or were they using them wrong?
I liked them as you just stripped wire, put on ferrule, and tighten terminal and crimped ferrule all at once.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

John Valdes said:


> I worked a shut down at Michelin USA. They used ferrules on every terminal.
> I mentioned this before and got very little feedback. They were using the terminal pressure itself to crimp the ferrule onto the wire.
> These were European style ferrules.
> 
> ...


That doesn't sound right. Crimping in a terminal would just flatten the ferrule. Wouldn't the wires just pull out? I think the little ridges you see after using a crimping tool are what actually hold the wires into the ferrule. But I ann not any kind of expert in the matter.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> I worked a shut down at Michelin USA. They used ferrules on every terminal.
> I mentioned this before and got very little feedback. They were using the terminal pressure itself to crimp the ferrule onto the wire.
> These were European style ferrules.
> 
> ...


That sounds like one of those things that "works" but is not the designed method. I have done ferrules that way a few times on terminals with ridged pressure plates. The connections held, but crimping with a tool seamed more solid.

One that I really questioned a few years ago was some Euro equipment with spring terminals and ferrules on #2 wire going from a VFD to a 75 HP motor. There are 16 of these motors that have been working fine for four years at 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. So I am convinced that spring terminals CAN be OK, but I still don't like them.

Oddly, the only problems were with the standard mechanical lugs on the line reactors. Of course, the panel fabricator used fine strand wire with mechanical lugs. Bad idea. I had to replace a bunch of these terminations.


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## triden (Jun 13, 2012)

If you want to build a panel that can withstand mechanical vibration and heat/cool stress, then you use ferrules. I would say 7 of 10 panels that get built for us these days use push-in terminals. Screw terminals are the way of the do-do bird. You can also get push-in terminal blocks that can handle a stranded TEW wire without having t ferrule or use a tool. Phoenix contact makes some good ones (PT model).


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