# Power for 3 motors



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

if moneys not an issue id put a panel in close to the motors.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> if moneys not an issue id put a panel in close to the motors.


Agreed. It's a lot easier to run a single feeder to a remote location than multiple motor circuits, control circuits, etc.

I'd run a feeder over there to a panel or MCC and try to minimize the length of your motor branch circuits and controls and stuff.

The building only has a 100 amp service? I don't know how different Canada's motor calculations are but even at 600 volts, a 50 hp motor by itself running continuously would suck up a pretty good chunk of ampacity.


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## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

thx,
would the breakers be counted as service disconnects or would I have to add 3 disconnects as well?


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## westcojack (Dec 2, 2011)

+1 on a new panel

Then they can also add more equipment later.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

powerblitz said:


> thx,
> would the breakers be counted as service disconnects or would I have to add 3 disconnects as well?


Again, not familiar with Canadian code requirements, but in the U.S. service disconnects generally need to be grouped together. If you supplied the motor feeder from a breaker located at the service, that could be counted as a service disconnect and the motor breakers downstream would just be motor breakers.


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## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

erics37 said:


> Agreed. It's a lot easier to run a single feeder to a remote location than multiple motor circuits, control circuits, etc.
> 
> I'd run a feeder over there to a panel or MCC and try to minimize the length of your motor branch circuits and controls and stuff.
> 
> The building only has a 100 amp service? I don't know how different Canada's motor calculations are but even at 600 volts, a 50 hp motor by itself running continuously would suck up a pretty good chunk of ampacity.


well the idea was to run 1 3phase 600V feed from the building splitter to a new splitter 150 feet away than feed 3 disconnects in that one area so I wouldn't be running multiple motor circuits.

I notified the owner of overloading his available capacity and blowing his fuses and he said he wont run everything at the same time.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

powerblitz said:


> well the idea was to run 1 3phase 600V feed from the building splitter to a new splitter 150 feet away than feed 3 disconnects in that one area so I wouldn't be running multiple motor circuits.
> 
> I notified the owner of overloading his available capacity and blowing his fuses and he said he wont run everything at the same time.


Well if you tapped directly from your service and installed 3 new disconnects 150 feet away, that would be a code violation around here because those 3 new disconnects would technically be service disconnects not grouped at the service. Furthermore you may or may not have some rules regarding length of tapped conductors (if at a lower ampacity than the supplying OCPD).

I would make the tap at your service and a feed a disconnect right there. Then run the 150' feeder from the disconnect to your motor location.


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## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

erics37 said:


> Well if you tapped directly from your service and installed 3 new disconnects 150 feet away, that would be a code violation around here because those 3 new disconnects would technically be service disconnects not grouped at the service. Furthermore you may or may not have some rules regarding length of tapped conductors (if at a lower ampacity than the supplying OCPD).
> 
> I would make the tap at your service and a feed a disconnect right there. Then run the 150' feeder from the disconnect to your motor location.


So in a nutshell...

Main building splitter--> disconnect -----------150 feet------ >second splitter--> 3 disconnects.


or 

Main building splitter--> disconnect-------------150 feet------->600v panel--> and 3 disconnects.


In regards to the tapped conductors I believe they can only be 7 feet or something away from the splitter before it effects the wire size, but the disconnect would be located near the splitter like you mentioned.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

Are you mixing anything that would make it a hazardous area? Aside from that, I would pick solution A. Disconnects are lockable and fusible. Breakers don't lock very well.


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## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

xlink said:


> Are you mixing anything that would make it a hazardous area? Aside from that, I would pick solution A. Disconnects are lockable and fusible. Breakers don't lock very well.


Thats actually one of my other concerns, I asked the client what he's mixing and if it's explosive or flammable and he told me its just corrosive. It's basically some kind of floor finishing product that he makes, so I imagine it should be flammable. 

Anyways, I'm going by tomorrow to get more information on the project.

Thanks


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

powerblitz said:


> Thats actually one of my other concerns, I asked the client what he's mixing and if it's explosive or flammable and he told me its just corrosive. It's basically some kind of floor finishing product that he makes, so I imagine it should be flammable.
> 
> Anyways, I'm going by tomorrow to get more information on the project.
> 
> Thanks


 its probably not his call to determine if the location is hazardous or not. its up to AHJ or insurance company i think


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> its probably not his call to determine if the location is hazardous or not. its up to AHJ or insurance company i think


The Canadian code is fairly clear on the types of locations.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

as is ours. im just saying i wouldn't let a business owner tell me anything about what is or isn't a hazardous location


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

100 Amp service and a 50 HP motor? The motor alone can use a breaker larger than 100 amp.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Yup id probably have that thing on a 150. Should draw around 50 though


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I highly suspect the building is gonna get a new service. Along with the motor feeders. As to the owner determining hazardous locations. No way no how unless it's someone like Exxon or Dow or the like.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

True. The starting current on that baby is probably over 200 amps


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## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

Ok so I visited the site.... there's two units joined together with two services so were ok with capacity...I asked him to show me the products hes mixing and an explanation on the hazards involved and basically from the information I've gathered so far the product is corrosive to the touch. Nothing is flammable or explosive..however I'm still not sure about the proper way to go about this because like the previous posts above mentioned its not up the owner to determine this. 

The cec is very clear on hazardous locations that's not my issue....I need proper trustworthy information to determine what class what zone and what category it falls under for corrosive liquuds etc.

The only thing I can think of now is to consult with the inspector.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

powerblitz said:


> The building has a 100Amp service and a splitter I can tap off of.


Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a "splitter"?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a "splitter"?


I'm thinking it's basically some term referring to a gutter (trough) with feeder tap connections. Or perhaps even with a distribution block built into it or some such.


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## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

Yeah pretty much


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

erics37 said:


> I'm thinking it's basically some term referring to a gutter (trough) with feeder tap connections. Or perhaps even with a distribution block built into it or some such.


Yes. What do you guys call it?


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

powerblitz said:


> Ok so I visited the site.... there's two units joined together with two services so were ok with capacity...I asked him to show me the products hes mixing and an explanation on the hazards involved and basically from the information I've gathered so far the product is corrosive to the touch. Nothing is flammable or explosive..however I'm still not sure about the proper way to go about this because like the previous posts above mentioned its not up the owner to determine this.
> 
> The cec is very clear on hazardous locations that's not my issue....I need proper trustworthy information to determine what class what zone and what category it falls under for corrosive liquuds etc.
> 
> The only thing I can think of now is to consult with the inspector.


Section 22.


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## powerblitz (Feb 10, 2013)

Based on the information I have available its neither a category 1 or 2 from sec 22.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

Sometimes inspectors will know, but they might refer you to an engineer. Maybe if you say what kinds of liquids are involved, someone here will have some experience with them.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Doesn't the MSDS sheet give the information required?


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

erics37 said:


> I'm thinking it's basically some term referring to a gutter (trough) with feeder tap connections. Or perhaps even with a distribution block built into it or some such.


 You are correct! What we call a splitter trough (splitter), is what you call a gutter.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

xlink said:


> Yes. What do you guys call it?


I call it a skank whore :thumbup:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

erics37 said:


> I call it a skank whore :thumbup:


On whore island


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