# Primer when gluing PVC conduit



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Primer is important but if you are not having to manhandle and distort the coupled portions in trying to "cut a big hog in the ass" you could get by without it.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Primer is for plumbers.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

btharmy said:


> Primer is for plumbers.


That is why they get paid more and work steadier. They do it right.


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## fp.unit (Dec 18, 2012)

Always just glue at my company, never had any issues with pulls afterwards. Mostly basic runs, 3/4, 1", 2" and 4", they try to trench out runs with long sweeps instead of sharp bends. Glue, stick, repeat, the labour savings are pretty insane. Maybe primer is best practice but never seen a big issue with glue alone. Taking the time to primer seems like it would interrupt the flow of rapid piping, if you hustle with just glue and the trench already cut you can run 200' in like 3-4 minutes.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

fp.unit said:


> Always just glue at my company, never had any issues with pulls afterwards. Mostly basic runs, 3/4, 1", 2" and 4", they try to trench out runs with long sweeps instead of sharp bends. Glue, stick, repeat, the labour savings are pretty insane. Maybe primer is best practice but never seen a big issue with glue alone. Taking the time to primer seems like it would interrupt the flow of rapid piping, if you hustle with just glue and the trench already cut you can run 200' in like 3-4 minutes.


Why is it that only in the electrical industry we find it necessary to shortcut the manufacturer's specs?


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## dielectricunion (Nov 29, 2012)

Since it's not holding water in like plumbing, the PVC conduit system is a lot more forgiving I'd imagine.

That glue holds well and I can't imagine water getting through even without a primer.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Never.


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## dielectricunion (Nov 29, 2012)

RIVETER said:


> Why is it that only in the electrical industry we find it necessary to shortcut the manufacturer's specs?



Good point. Checking manufacturer specs would've been a logical place for me to start


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

dielectricunion said:


> Since it's not holding water in like plumbing, the PVC conduit system is a lot more forgiving I'd imagine.
> 
> That glue holds well and I can't imagine water getting through even without a primer.


I have been there and when someone predigs the trench they want to fill it up as fast as possible behind you and I've seen the pipe come apart..not always but a few times. Don't you or your bosses estimate the proper way to install to the specs. I can save a lot of time installing emt if I only thread the locknuts a couple of turns...it'll probably work just fine.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Why does RIVETER always comment on things he has never done? Primer is for plumbing and plumbing alone.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I have been there and when someone predigs the trench they want to fill it up as fast as possible behind you and I've seen the pipe come apart..not always but a few times. Don't you or your bosses estimate the proper way to install to the specs. I can save a lot of time installing emt if I only thread the locknuts a couple of turns...it'll probably work just fine.


You have no clue what you're talking about. Electrical conduit does not require priming.


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## fp.unit (Dec 18, 2012)

RIVETER said:


> I have been there and when someone predigs the trench they want to fill it up as fast as possible behind you and I've seen the pipe come apart..not always but a few times. Don't you or your bosses estimate the proper way to install to the specs. I can save a lot of time installing emt if I only thread the locknuts a couple of turns...it'll probably work just fine.


It's a gamble that probably pays off more often then not. The way id look at it, if I'm not breaking code, and am 98-99% sure pipes won't break, and with 100-200% speed increase of simply gluing and jamming vs priming, waiting, then gluing, I'd eat the occasional lost pipe and run it overhead or whatever with the boatload of cash I made doing everything underground in the first place. I'm just an employee/apprentice, but that's my future business mind thinking and I imagine the same kind of thinking my boss has. Honestly I didn't even know there was such thing as PVC priming before gluing. Like you said the worst case is pipes pull apart during backfill and you lose a run. I find when you glue it good, then give it a 1/4 twist and hold for a few seconds that sucker is not pulling apart even if you want it to. But I can see how cleaning dirty pipes, drying , priming and finally glueing is even better. I don't think any trades are immune to the "get it done as fast as possible as long as it meets code, I want to make money" mindset


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It's solvent cement. It has ingredients that break down the PVC and create the "weld". Primer is used on ABS.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

PROCEDURE FOR SOLVENT WELDING JOINTS • Use solvent cement and primer prior to expiration date marked on container. • Above 32°F ambient temperature, joints may be as- sembled without the use of primer, provided adequate penetration and softening of the pipe/fitting surface can be achieved with solvent cement alone. Primer is used to penetrate and soften the surfaces so that they will fuse together under a wide variety of condi- tions. The penetration or softening can be checked by drag- ging the edge of a knife or sharp object over the coated sur- face. If a few thousandths of an inch of the primed surface can be scratched or scraped away, proper penetration has occurred. Varying weather conditions affect priming and cementing action and may require more time or repeated applications to either or both surfaces

So I guess it not a short cut to lose the primer.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I've seen the pipe come apart..not always but a few times..


 
If it came apart, you were doing it wrong.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Awg-Dawg said:


> If it came apart, you were doing it wrong.


Somehow I thought that that would come up. Actually, I was sent to a Federal park in Indiana to follow a backhoe and install two inch pvc. I was priming the pipe for the first two to three hundred feet until the boss/owner said that it was a waste of time and grabbed the pipe to instruct me. "All you do is grab two pieces of pipe...slop the glue around it and throw it in the ditch." He did just that and it hit a rock and both ends popped up. After my good laugh I reported back to the hall.


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## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

The only time you ever need primer is for the PVC pipe runs to pool lights. Because they'll be filled with water obviously. That's it. Anything more than that is just a waste of time.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

The_kid said:


> The only time you ever need primer is for the PVC pipe runs to pool lights. Because they'll be filled with water obviously. That's it. Anything more than that is just a waste of time.


I disagree. Apply solvent cement on both ends, stick it together and twist.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

The_kid said:


> The only time you ever need primer is for the PVC pipe runs to pool lights. Because they'll be filled with water obviously. That's it. Anything more than that is just a waste of time.


Oh well, maybe you are right. It just makes sense that if you get water in your conduit system you want it to stay there.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I was priming the pipe for the first two to three hundred feet ...
> So you show up on a job with your own can of primer?


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)

Good god, I have never in my life seem so much arguing over purple primer.

In my company we always use primer before the cement.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Why does RIVETER always comment on things he has never done? Primer is for plumbing and plumbing alone.


Where have you been? No wonder you are always beating your head against a wall.:thumbsup:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You have no clue what you're talking about. Electrical conduit does not require priming.


PVC isn't conduit? Watch your head,now.:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

POCO's here require it. They get upset when we ask if that section of the specs was written by a plumber. :laughing:


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

Never seen primer used on PVC except for plumbers pipe. Heard of an electrician that would, but he would scuff the ends with emery cloth first. He didn't work on trenching/digging projects much.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Primer on pvc is clown shoes


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> Primer on pvc is clown shoes


They're coming back.


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## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

99cents said:


> I disagree. Apply solvent cement on both ends, stick it together and twist.



I'm actually on my way to do a pool right now haha.

But if thats worked for you in the past, more power to ya. I really don't want any problems when it comes to the piping so i take the extra 20 seconds to primer it. I REALLY don't want to go back and dig up the pipes and fix a leak.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I've installed many miles of PVC and supervised 100s of miles of installed PVC. Never once has anyone mentioned using primer for electrical conduits.
None of the guys and I have never seen it in a spec book 1600 section.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

dielectricunion said:


> Since it's not holding water in like plumbing, the PVC conduit system is a lot more forgiving I'd imagine. That glue holds well and I can't imagine water getting through even without a primer.


Nah, water never gets in PVC conduit!!! Lol funny


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> Nah, water never gets in PVC conduit!!! Lol funny


Doubtful that it gets in through a proper solvent weld joint.


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## Nom Deplume (Jul 21, 2013)

I thought the water and mud in the trench was all the primer we needed. :laughing:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

There was one guy around here that posted he never even used glue for PVC above grade.
Come to think of it, he might be onto something?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> There was one guy around here that posted he never even used glue for PVC above grade. Come to think of it, he might be onto something?


The straps should be enough. Never glue box adapters.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Primer optional....glue on both sides and a 360° spin a must.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I have glued more PVC than anyone on the planet and primer is an absolutely unimportant messy waste of time on conduit.

2 to 4 inch water mains, yeah. I'm going to use it to prep the slick surface of plumbing PVC.

Our local POCO requires it on their installations (they don't install conduit). Whoever writes their specs (as usual) has never spent a day in the field. They read on the internet (or on advertising from the primer manufacturer)that primer makes a better connection so they require it.




> I've seen the pipe come apart..not always but a few times.


Operator error. 

1) There are only a couple thousandths of an inch between a good and bad joint. Experience tells you what to do. If the joint grabs right now, it won't pull apart. If you can still twist it after a few seconds, you need to do something about it. 

2) Make sure your couplings are not stressed upon backfill. If you have a coupling hanging over a big dip in a trench and you dump several hundred pounds of dirt on it from a loader, duh.


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

Always use primer here.....
Our estimating program figures primer and glue automatically, so it's in the bill of material for purchase.

Primer I s required in every spec I've ever read.
If I choose not use it, I could be forced to tear out the work and 're-do or if a failure occurs, I have no leg to stand.


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

Dont prime. However on a side note why is everyone around here in such a damn hurry with everything? Slow and steady wins the race. I try not to short cut, cheat, or constantly be in a rush.  Thats how mistakes happen. Which are far more costly. Slow the hell down. Back to primer.. i dont do it cuz i was taught we didn't need to because its not plumbing. The only electrical pvc conduit ive seen with primer on it was done by hacks cuz they didn't know better


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## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

NoSparkSparky said:


> Dont prime. However on a side note why is everyone around here in such a damn hurry with everything? Slow and steady wins the race. I try not to short cut, cheat, or constantly be in a rush. Thats how mistakes happen. Which are far more costly. Slow the hell down. Back to primer.. i dont do it cuz i was taught we didn't need to because its not plumbing. The only electrical pvc conduit ive seen with primer on it was done by hacks cuz they didn't know better



I don't use primer on PVC (unless its pipe to pool lights) i feel it's a waste of time. 

But, 
primer will only make a better connection. It kind of is the "right" thing to do

So by no means would i call them hacks for using primer. Just because it isn't your method doesn't mean its wrong.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

cdslotz said:


> Always use primer here.....
> Our estimating program figures primer and glue automatically, so it's in the bill of material for purchase.
> 
> Primer I s required in every spec I've ever read.
> If I choose not use it, I could be forced to tear out the work and 're-do or if a failure occurs, I have no leg to stand.


Are you a plumber?

I could furnish a house with the spec books I have been through and I have never seen primer in the 1600 sections.


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

The_kid said:


> I don't use primer on PVC (unless its pipe to pool lights) i feel it's a waste of time.
> 
> But,
> primer will only make a better connection. It kind of is the "right" thing to do
> ...


Naw not saying they are hacks for using it. Im saying the only pvc ive seen w primer was done by hacks. But thats not what made them hacks. It was everything else about the install


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## NoSparkSparky (Mar 5, 2012)

I love when the HO already ran the conduit for me and used hard 90s meant for plumbing .


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

dielectricunion said:


> Since it's not holding water in like plumbing, the PVC conduit system is a lot more forgiving I'd imagine.
> 
> That glue holds well and I can't imagine water getting through even without a primer.


Is that why there's never any water in underground conduit?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

NoSparkSparky said:


> on a side note why is everyone around here in such a damn hurry with everything? Slow and steady wins the race.



Time = money. You can be fast without making mistakes. 

Installing two products where one is just as effective is just wasting time and money. It's not any different than pretwisting wires or taping wirenuts.

Plus that **** stains the hell out of everything.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> That is why they get paid more and work steadier. They do it right.


Your not even a decent troll.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

NoSparkSparky said:


> I love when the HO already ran the conduit for me and used hard 90s meant for plumbing .


I would not use that conduit.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

cdslotz said:


> Primer I s required in every spec I've ever read.


 Ive seen a lot of specs before and ive never seen that one.


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## dielectricunion (Nov 29, 2012)

NoSparkSparky said:


> I love when the HO already ran the conduit for me and used hard 90s meant for plumbing .



When you can pull wire through a sanitary tee fitting, you have reached true master level status [emoji1]


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Plus that **** stains the hell out of everything.


And then there is the stinging if you ever get it in an open wound. It will make your eyes water for sure.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Your not even a decent troll.


Sticks and stones...or whatever. Whatever I am, I have made a lot of $$$ doing it.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

dielectricunion said:


> When you can pull wire through a sanitary tee fitting, you have reached true master level status [emoji1]


That's easy, they even come not only directional, but have a built in assessable splice location.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> That's easy, they even come not only directional, but have a built in assessable splice location.


If you think that is funny you should log on to the plumbers forum and see what they say about us.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> If you think that is funny you should log on to the plumbers forum and see what they say about us.


I tried and was quickly called a pipe-fitter hacking troll. They gave me the ban boot.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> I tried and was quickly called a pipe-fitter hacking troll. They gave me the ban boot.


Sorry, I should have warned you. If you want, try again and give them my user name as well as yours and they will give you an honorary TROLL pass and let you in.


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