# Apartment Complex Mains



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

that article confuses me on occasion


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## Mike Guile (Jan 14, 2010)

*tough*

I find you need to use the word repair. You not adding, altering, changing any wiring. That could get tricky now because your on the radar screen. I've ran into a bunch of instances like this. Repair , Repair, Repair


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Nevermind......


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Stretch this project out over a period of time if you can. Like others said, it's all repair work. Why does that third meter look crooked?


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## hoonerman68 (Mar 2, 2010)

My inspector does not seem to get the word repair. Another electrican stirred the nest and then left. So, here i am trying to help my new customer. The third meter is a vacant apartment and the power company turns the meter instead of blanking it off.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Are you saying that when swapping out a breaker in any of those discos you actually call for an inspection?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

hoonerman68 said:


> I have an Apartment complex that has two services to each building with each service feeding eight apartments with a meter and 100A two pole breaker. The owners are wanting to change out the Fedral/Pacfic 100A breaker because they are burning up every so often. The city inspector lets me change out the breakers one by one, but if i go and change them all he is saying that i have to bring it up to the six handle or less per service. Is this not a repair/maintenace issue? The exsisting service is not being upsized or changed in anyway. Can anyone give me something they have run across that i can use to fight this issuse?


The inspector is wrong. You a changing a breaker not a service panel and here even if you did I bet it would be grandfathered in. I could be wrong about that but not the breaker change out.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Cant he just add a 600A main, or whatever the service size is, and then the installation would be compliant? How is this any different than a 9 meter pack - doesnt it have a main?

~Matt


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Cant he just add a 600A main, or whatever the service size is, and then the installation would be compliant? How is this any different than a 9 meter pack - doesnt it have a main?
> 
> ~Matt


 sounds like there is no main disco for the services?


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## BEAMEUP (Sep 19, 2008)

I guess putting a main in would add more headaches then its worth, You would have to go thru plan reveiw and all the headaches of load calcs and you might get hosed and have to up size the wires based on current code, repulling larger wire, you might have to up size the pipes as well. I think just changing them out over time would be the least costly thing to do.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

whatever the inspector says...
sell a new set of meter packs to the customer!


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Here in the Great Police State of New Jersey we have the rehab code which addresses repairs. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for you. IMO it's an administrative decision that the EI has to make. Your screwed.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Call the chief inspector and tell him you are CHANGING OUT some breakers. You are not REPLACING A SERVICE. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. But I would of been on the phone as soon as the inspector told me that (well after I asked him to show me where it says I have to change the design of a service that passed inspection when it was built and is just being replaced not moved) If it was being moved I would say yes it must be up to current code if staying in the same place its grandfathered in. But none of that matters all you are doing is changing a breaker plain and simple.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Not for nothing, but the 6-throw rule was in place in the 70's when that service was improperly given the green light.


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## hoonerman68 (Mar 2, 2010)

Our Chief Inspector is our only inspector in our town. There is a board of appeals that i may go to because it is a repair job. Not changing service or load. 

I can't put a main because of clearence issuses with the transformer that is two feet away from the building and no room to work with between apartment windows.

The cost of meter packs or main disconnects is going to scare the customer away because they know that we can change them out on a "as needed" basis.


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## GitRDoneElectric (Feb 9, 2010)

*Mains*

Just get some flashlights. Replace them at night. Get him to pay you in cash and don't admit anything. Your just replacing breakers for christ sake!

Admit nothing...Deny Everything


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

hoonerman68 said:


> I have an Apartment complex that has two services to each building with each service feeding eight apartments with a meter and 100A two pole breaker. The owners are wanting to change out the Fedral/Pacfic 100A breaker because they are burning up every so often. The city inspector lets me change out the breakers one by one, but if i go and change them all he is saying that i have to bring it up to the six handle or less per service. Is this not a repair/maintenace issue? The exsisting service is not being upsized or changed in anyway. Can anyone give me something they have run across that i can use to fight this issuse?


I'd like to know how that got passed in the first place, being more than six throws of the hand. Is it possible to retrofit a murray , or GE guts into the existing box. mount a old style feed thru beaker in its place?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

hoonerman68 said:


> Our Chief Inspector is our only inspector in our town. There is a board of appeals that i may go to because it is a repair job. Not changing service or load.
> 
> I can't put a main because of clearence issuses with the transformer that is two feet away from the building and no room to work with between apartment windows.
> 
> The cost of meter packs or main disconnects is going to scare the customer away because they know that we can change them out on a "as needed" basis.


Its not even a repair job. Its no different then going out to a customers house and changing a switch or a receptacle because the customer WANTS them changed. If you were to have to change 1 PANEL I still believe he would have to let it fly because you are replacing what is there and it did pass an inspection before power was applied. Here we can call the state to get the proper answer good luck.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

What is the panel to the left? Is it the POCO feed with a disconnect in it? If so the inspector has no reason to make you change it. It would only be one main, six motions of the hand would not come into play.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

codeone said:


> What is the panel to the left? Is it the POCO feed with a disconnect in it? If so the inspector has no reason to make you change it. It would only be one main, six motions of the hand would not come into play.


It looks like an old 200 amp m/b enclosure.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

codeone said:


> What is the panel to the left? Is it the POCO feed with a disconnect in it? If so the inspector has no reason to make you change it. It would only be one main, six motions of the hand would not come into play.


That's just an end box, no disco.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> That's just an end box, no disco.


 Bummer! The other question I would ask is, how are the apts seperated by firewalls? It does make a difference on how the survices are on the building.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

codeone said:


> Bummer! The other question I would ask is, how are the apts seperated by firewalls? It does make a difference on how the survices are on the building.


 
Codeone if I came to your county and pulled a permit to change the breakers(mains or regular breakers) in a service like in the op's pic 
would it not just be a breaker change out in your opinion? No panel is burnt up customer just wants breakers changed. How would you call it?


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Codeone if I came to your county and pulled a permit to change the breakers(mains or regular breakers) in a service like in the op's pic
> would it not just be a breaker change out in your opinion? No panel is burnt up customer just wants breakers changed. How would you call it?


 It sounds like hes upgrading services, not just changing breakers. Dont know all the circumstances. Would need more info. If hes changing FP to FP I see no problem. If hes changing the whole panel there may be other issues I'm not aware of doing an inspection from an arm chair.


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## OCELECTRIC (Sep 5, 2007)

mite want to check and see why the breaker keep burning up.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

codeone said:


> It sounds like hes upgrading services, not just changing breakers. Dont know all the circumstances. Would need more info. If hes changing FP to FP I see no problem. If hes changing the whole panel there may be other issues I'm not aware of doing an inspection from an arm chair.


I'm pretty sure I read he was just changing breakers and the inspector is telling him that he has to change the panels and relocate them due to the 6 throw rule. To me a main breaker change out is just that a breaker change out.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

codeone said:


> Bummer! The other question I would ask is, how are the apts seperated by firewalls? It does make a difference on how the survices are on the building.


 That would create an exception to a main disconnect, firewalls and subfeeders run through the slab.


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## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

This is an upgrade, actually. They are going to charge more and more for those apts every year, and the city wants their pound of flesh. If they skate by with your fix for another 20 years, the city misses out on the revenue that they make from the kids in the boxes. I get tired of the "I'm too poor to do it properly, but let me evict anyone who doesn't pay my rent hikes, even though my mortgage is fixed" mentality.


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