# Roughing in wires for door bell push button. Stucco Finish



## Code Talker (Dec 22, 2008)

I've been wiring houses for over 30 years and I still haven't figured out how to mount a door bell push button on a house with stucco exterior....

This is for new construction.

Here's what I've been doing: I run 2 conductor bell wire to where the button goes. I nail a 16d nail into a stud leaving about 1.5" of the nail sticking out at a right angle to the wall surface, right where the button will be. I wrap the exposed nail with the bell wire about 10 - 15 wraps.

On finish, the wall is covered with stucco and my nail is sticking out about 3/4" beyond the stucco. With my Kleins I pull out the nail and now have a small hole and about 8" of bell wire.

This is where I feel things get dodgy. Door bell push buttons come with tiny little wood screws. I take a cold chisel and carefully expand the hole in the stucco around the wires and then I take an awl and make little starter holes for tiny screws. Then I mount the button and carefully screw the tiny screws into the stucco. This is very time consuming and somewhat mickey mouse. 

I've tried using plastic anchors but drilling the holes for the anchors sometimes fails because the hole where the bell wire is, is so close the stucco crumbles. And the plastic anchor screws are big and shiny and not small and color matched like the ones the button comes with.

How do you guys do this? Is there something like a "plaster ring" for push buttons that I don't know about? Do you guys install a box and mount the button on a blank plate? (that must be ugly).

I don't install the cheapy box like button that comes with the doorbell kits, I usually spend about $10 on a decent, attractive button.

I'm stumped. Thank you in advance.


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## aricsavage (Oct 6, 2007)

when i first started in the field we did a house w/ brick front and the boss put a 6 inch piece of 1/2 inch pvc through the wall (with a TA to hold it on) and just let the wire hang out the front. on the finish all I had to do was cut the pvc flush w/ a razor knife and the button fit inside the pipe perfectly.


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Try the Arlington db1 or db2.:thumbsup:


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

BIGRED said:


> Try the Arlington db1 or db2.:thumbsup:


Are you talking about one of these


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jwelectric said:


> Are you talking about one of these


Ding! Ding! Ding!

Or is that Ding-dong!?

You found it before I could.


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Them are the ones, the db1 is for siding, but I have used it on stucco. The db2 is made for stucco.


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

Another method I saw on some very high end homes, they roughed in a 1 gang box at the entry for the bell wire, then at trim just used a stainless cover plate with a 1/2 KO punched in it for the button.


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

I take an easier and cheaper route. On the finish I mark where my two mounting holes are, then drill two holes 1/4" diameter on those marks back through the finish material (stucco included) and drive 1/4"dowel material into those holes. Now I have a solid piece of wood for the mounting screws to anchor into to. Pretty simple overall.

Jeff


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

piette said:


> I take an easier and cheaper route. On the finish I mark where my two mounting holes are, then drill two holes 1/4" diameter on those marks back through the finish material (stucco included) and drive 1/4"dowel material into those holes. Now I have a solid piece of wood for the mounting screws to anchor into to. Pretty simple overall.
> 
> Jeff


 
How is that easier then a ring made specifically for a door bell? and your time to mark the holes, drill them, and install the dowels is more expensive (should be anyway) then the ring.


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

piette said:


> I take an easier and cheaper route. On the finish I mark where my two mounting holes are, then drill two holes 1/4" diameter on those marks back through the finish material (stucco included) and drive 1/4"dowel material into those holes. Now I have a solid piece of wood for the mounting screws to anchor into to. Pretty simple overall.
> 
> Jeff


Ever seen this?

110.13 Mounting and Cooling of Equipment.
(A) Mounting. Electrical equipment shall be firmly secured to the surface on which it is mounted. *Wooden plugs driven into holes in masonry, concrete, plaster, or similar materials shall not be used.*


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

Wireless said:


> How is that easier then a ring made specifically for a door bell? and your time to mark the holes, drill them, and install the dowels is more expensive (should be anyway) then the ring.


A $2 dowel which lasts for several houses and less than 5 minutes of my time sure doesn't cost me much at all.

Jeff


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

jwelectric said:


> Ever seen this?
> 
> 110.13 Mounting and Cooling of Equipment.
> (A) Mounting. Electrical equipment shall be firmly secured to the surface on which it is mounted. *Wooden plugs driven into holes in masonry, concrete, plaster, or similar materials shall not be used.*


Yup and when my local inspectors have a problem with how I mount a doorbell button, I'll be sure to let you know. Until that happens (which will be never), I wouldn't hold my breathe if I were you waiting.

Jeff


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

piette said:


> Yup and when my local inspectors have a problem with how I mount a doorbell button, I'll be sure to let you know. Until that happens (which will be never), I wouldn't hold my breathe if I were you waiting.
> 
> Jeff


Okay I better understand what you are saying now. It is alright to cut corners as long as the inspector doesn't have anything to say about the installation.

Good deal!

My self I don't think that using a dowel is such a good idea as in a couple of years the door bell push button will be just hanging there but the warranty has expired so it doesn't matter. 

Hey, do you hang meter cans the same way?


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## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

jwelectric said:


> Okay I better understand what you are saying now. It is alright to cut corners as long as the inspector doesn't have anything to say about the installation.
> 
> Good deal!
> 
> ...


 
:laughing::notworthy::laughing:

Hey JW are you married? My sister is single, and I think you would be a lot of fun at a family BBQ!


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

jwelectric said:


> Okay I better understand what you are saying now. It is alright to cut corners as long as the inspector doesn't have anything to say about the installation.
> 
> Good deal!
> 
> ...


Shall I bring out a quote from you in the ridiculous thread about A/C disconnects and the fact that you ignore the code with them and do it your own way?

Hmmm...... This seems very fitting for you right now



Jeff


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

Here you go JW, as originally posted by you:




> Although I have stated many times throughout this thread that I install NM to an AC *disconnect* and even though there is thousands of other electricians that make such an installation does not make a code compliant installation. Yes I know that it is passed every day by code officials across our great nation but again it still does not make a code compliant installation


 
Care to explain your position or do you just want to bow out and look ignorant? I ignore a simple code when mounting a doorbell button, (which by the way you are incredibly incorrect about falling off as I have them on houses over 15 years now and never a problem with the treated dowels), you ignore the code on 240 volt circuits according to your own statements.

Jeff


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

piette said:


> Here you go JW, as originally posted by you:





piette said:


> > Although I have stated many times throughout this thread that I install NM to an AC *disconnect* and even though there is thousands of other electricians that make such an installation does not make a code compliant installation. Yes I know that it is passed every day by code officials across our great nation but again it still does not make a code compliant installation
> 
> 
> 
> Care to explain your position or do you just want to bow out and look ignorant?



Ignorant means the lack of knowledge. Stupid on the other hand has a totally different meaning. I think in my statement that I said that the installation was noncompliant therefore ignorant would not be the correct word to use, would it?
I never back down as you will learn if you haven’t already. 




piette said:


> I ignore a simple code when mounting a doorbell button, (which by the way you are incredibly incorrect about falling off as I have them on houses over 15 years now and never a problem with the treated dowels), you ignore the code on 240 volt circuits according to your own statements.





piette said:


> Jeff



Now answer the question about the meter bases. Do you use the dowels to mount meter bases?


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

jwelectric said:


> Now answer the question about the meter bases. Do you use the dowels to mount meter bases?


Wow, that is quite impressive. Michael Jordan himself couldn't make a jump like that to go from mounting a simple 6 volt door bell button with two small pieces of 1/4 inch treated dowel to mounting meters with it as well. Damn you have an excellent imagination don't you?

Apparently you have never heard the old saying "people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" or how about the Bible passage "Let he without sin cast the first stone". You openly admit in another thread that you don't follow the code when it comes to 240 volt circuits, yet you openly attack me about a 6 volt doorbell button? Yeah I got your number now too.........

Jeff


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

mount a piece of wood before they stucco and use that... sort of like a light block


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

or what about using longer screws to hit the wood behind the stucco


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

piette said:


> Wow, that is quite impressive. Michael Jordan himself couldn't make a jump like that to go from mounting a simple 6 volt door bell button with two small pieces of 1/4 inch treated dowel to mounting meters with it as well. Damn you have an excellent imagination don't you?
> 
> Apparently you have never heard the old saying "people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" or how about the Bible passage "Let he without sin cast the first stone". You openly admit in another thread that you don't follow the code when it comes to 240 volt circuits, yet you openly attack me about a 6 volt doorbell button? Yeah I got your number now too.........
> 
> Jeff


fight him in the electriciantalk.com wrestling ring


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

piette said:


> Wow, that is quite impressive. Michael Jordan himself couldn't make a jump like that to go from mounting a simple 6 volt door bell button with two small pieces of 1/4 inch treated dowel to mounting meters with it as well. Damn you have an excellent imagination don't you?


 No not really as in the old days dowels were used to mount about everything that was mounted on concrete or masonry. It was the decaying dowels that brought forth the verbiage of today.




piette said:


> Apparently you have never heard the old saying "people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" or how about the Bible passage "Let he without sin cast the first stone". You openly admit in another thread that you don't follow the code when it comes to 240 volt circuits, yet you openly attack me about a 6 volt doorbell button? Yeah I got your number now too.........





piette said:


> Jeff


Attack you???????????



piette said:


> jwelectric said:
> 
> 
> > Ever seen this?





piette said:


> jwelectric said:
> 
> 
> > 110.13 Mounting and Cooling of Equipment.
> ...


I wouldn’t say that was any kind of attack and haven’t wanted to make it sound like we were in some kind of battle. Do you feel that this is some kind of fight?

You came back with as long as the inspector passes it I will keep doing the dowel installation to which I made the remark of the decaying dowel and asked if you mounted meters using dowels. I think that was a fair question and had no malice toward you at all.

Then for some reason and I think that anger has some contributing factor you quoted from another thread and started accusing me of making non compliant installations.
Have I ever denied this or did I get mad at you for making the quote? 

You even asked me, “Care to explain your position or do you just want to bow out and look ignorant?

Did I not come back with a little humor for you delight?


jwelectric said:


> Ignorant means the lack of knowledge. Stupid on the other hand has a totally different meaning. I think in my statement that I said that the installation was noncompliant therefore ignorant would not be the correct word to use, would it?


 Does this not imply that I am stupid? Funny I thought. See I wasn’t feeling any animosity at you at all. I was even trying to be funny. 

Then this

Boy did I get under you nerve a little?? Geeezz aren’t we touchy?
If you are going to openly admit to something be prepared to have someone pick it a part as some of love nothing more.

This is not a battle between the two of us; we should be able to discuss things without all this hostility building up on the inside, and both of us learn something or leave something others can learn while reading. I suppose all the drama will bring in some readers simply some love nothing more.

One last question if I may;
Why did you make it a point in your last post to point out that the dowel was treated for decay?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Sorry for the hijack but.....Someone makes a much smaller rough in frame for door bell buttons. I have seen a ton of them around here but never installed one. 


How about drilling a 1/4" angled hole so the wire sticks out of the center/face of a stud and drill out the push button to accept a drywall screw? Also, leave some curled up slack in the wall, just because.


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## GregS (May 22, 2007)

The electricians on the houses I do have the same problem with stucco. Usually it's the builders service guy who ends up finishing it.. with an adhesive caulk.

You could always back it with a 2x4 during rough-in and then find some really long screws.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

jwelectric said:


> Ever seen this?
> 
> 110.13 Mounting and Cooling of Equipment.
> (A) Mounting. Electrical equipment shall be firmly secured to the surface on which it is mounted. *Wooden plugs driven into holes in masonry, concrete, plaster, or similar materials shall not be used.*


In the past, I've agreeded with nearly all of your arguements.

But at some point, you need to just say 'screw it'. It's a better job. And for heaven's sake, it's a doorbell button!

Never saw an inspector remove a doorbell button to inspect it either.


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

heel600 said:


> In the past, I've agreeded with nearly all of your arguements.
> 
> But at some point, you need to just say 'screw it'. It's a better job. And for heaven's sake, it's a doorbell button!
> 
> Never saw an inspector remove a doorbell button to inspect it either.


 
Well now let me thank you for the support, and ask you a question. Have you read one word where I have said it was a bad idea? 
The only thing I have done throughout this entire thread is make that one quote from the NEC which clearly states that dowels are not to be used.

Yes I have had experience where wooden dowels were used and give up in a couple of years. In years gone by dowels were used quite often.


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

jwelectric said:


> Okay I better understand what you are saying now. It is alright to cut corners as long as the inspector doesn't have anything to say about the installation.
> 
> Good deal!


Perhaps it is this comment of yours............

Jeff


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

I agree with Wireless an JWelectric on the doorbell button. All this 2x4's, longer screws, 1/2 pipe, dowels why wouldn't you just use the DB1 or DB2? I don't know about you guy's, but when I do a finish I want to fly thru it. With out the DB's, I could see that would a real PITA and wasting time!


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

BIGRED said:


> I agree with Wireless an JWelectric on the doorbell button. All this 2x4's, longer screws, 1/2 pipe, dowels why wouldn't you just use the DB1 or DB2? I don't know about you guy's, but when I do a finish I want to fly thru it. With out the DB's, I could see that would a real PITA and wasting time!


So let me ask this, using the DB, how long does it take you to install it and then mount the button after?

And how much time and money is invested into painting this block so it matches the house? None of my contractors would allow me to put anything white on a house that doesn't have white trim on it, which 90% of them around here don't.

Jeff


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## threewire (Jan 28, 2008)

A little bit of liquid nail.........BAM


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

It would take me about ten minutes. I am an electrician not a painter! You act like this thing is huge, the DB2 is about 1" trade size.


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

piette said:


> jwelectric said:
> 
> 
> > Okay I better understand what you are saying now. It is alright to cut corners as long as the inspector doesn't have anything to say about the installation.
> ...


Just what was wrong with that comment?
You made the comment just after I made the post giving section 110.13:


piette said:


> Yup and when my local inspectors have a problem with how I mount a doorbell button, I'll be sure to let you know. Until that happens (which will be never), I wouldn't hold my breathe if I were you waiting. Jeff


This comment would lead anyone reading that as long as the inspector did not call you on a violation you would continue to make the installations and told me not to hold my breath until you changed your method. 
Why do you think I care about how you hack together a door bell? 
My post referring to 110.13 was for the benefit of anyone who might want to use the same method so they would know that it might get turned down if an inspector was to catch that type of method.
It wasn’t meant to belittle you in any way but you sure went into attack mode.

Then you added something new to the conversation,


piette said:


> mounting a simple 6 volt door bell button with two small pieces of 1/4 inch





piette said:


> *treated dowel*


 Now these dowels have somehow become treated. Where was it that you found treated dowels at? Wouldn’t matter as wood holds water and when it freezes it expands. Things such as raw plugs and plastic anchors do not hold water and there is no ice expansion if the rotting would be enough to stop the use of wooden dowels.

The truth of the matter is you posted a method of mounting doorbell push buttons and someone else came in behind you with a reason not to use your method and you went on the defensive, To prove that your method had no problems you even drew from another thread and started with the look at what you did to pull away from yourself. 

If you are going to post things that are non-compliant don't get so angry when someone comes in behind you citing code references why your method is wrong.

Personally I don’t care if you use super glue to install your push buttons with so please don’t get so mad when someone makes a remark about your method.


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

I couldn't care less if someone makes a comment on how I do things as long as it has good intentions. Yours on the other hand did not. Yours was meant to belittle and when you got called out on it for doing virtually the same thing (saying to hell with the code on certain items) all of a sudden you did not mean it that way, BS!!!! You got caught.

Jeff


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Try the Arlington DB1 or DB2.


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

piette said:


> I couldn't care less if someone makes a comment on how I do things as long as it has good intentions. *Yours on the other hand did not. Yours was meant to belittle* and when you got called out on it for doing virtually the same thing (saying to hell with the code on certain items) all of a sudden you did not mean it that way, BS!!!! You got caught.
> 
> Jeff


Show me where please


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

I think the Arlington DB1 or DB2 might be a good choice.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Guys, this is a thread on how to rough-in a door bell. How did it possibly get so out of hand?


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