# home gym ???



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Ballpark quoting an upscale remodel project for a home gym. Three biggest problems at this point are 
1. no list of, or specs for, the likely gym equipment, or floor plan 
2. one wall is all mirrors, another is all glass, including a glass door. What does that do to the NEC requirements for receptacle spacing?
3. There is also a space in the project for a small sauna, which I also haven't seen specs for yet. 

Upcoming, I can also see an arm wrestle over the full 200-amp panel nearby that will be feeding all this. It's nearly full, and will either need a number of twins to make room for the new arc-faults etc that will be required, or a sub-panel, which I recommend but HO doesn't want to sign off on yet. 

As I see this list of problems, I'm wondering now why I'm even looking at this job. I was enjoying the tranquil winter slowdown.


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

2- (a)rough to code/to spec for their equipment and have the outlet boxes cut into the glass bybthe glass guy(been there done that ..(b) floor outlets


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

The receptacles along the glass wall still need to be spaced according to the NEC,so they can go I the floor. Any reasonable inspector might forgive you here though, and just look the other way if you don't install them.

There a couple of ways that you can do the unknown loads:

1) Demand they tell you what they are putting in there before you price it
2) Put a couple of empty boxes in, and pipe back to the panel and pull in what you need later. Figure high for this one to cover any eventuality.

The sauna could be figured the same as #2


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Next reincarnated said:


> 2- (a)rough to code/to spec for their equipment and have the outlet boxes cut into the glass bybthe glass guy(been there done that ..(b) floor outlets


no floor outlets. poured concrete.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Give them an outrageous price... Then....

Thank them for contacting you and tell them to get there S together before you can finalize a quote.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

Next reincarnated said:


> rough to code/to spec for their equipment and have the outlet boxes cut into the glass bybthe glass guy


Nice idea. thx.,


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

In all seriousness though....

Most HO's don't really know what they want, what information they need, etc...

Our job is to guide and direct them, to hold their hand through the process, but we also need to charge accordingly for that whole process.

If you can meet those challenges, you can build really good name for yourself and be heads and tails above the competition. 

In cases like this I have just drawn a simple floor layout on the iPad, and used that to quote typical equipment. In your quote include the layout and the size of the circuit and method of wiring. Let them know it is preliminary and will change based upon actual equipment chosen. (The idea has been thrown out there to run EMT, and that may be the best idea in this situation. In fact it may be a great selling point, because whose gym doesn't change over time?)

Also, don't count on the inspector being nice, bid the receptacles in the mirror and make sure the quote states "Holes by others".


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Did someone really say cut a box into the glass?


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

mikewillnot said:


> no floor outlets. poured concrete.


Floor outlets are set in concrete all the time. EMT through the slab to a box. Protect your boxes well or the trades will fill them with concrete.

I did a gym for a neighbor of mine. It was 2 story 3,200 sf/ floor and 12' ceilings on the 2nd floor. He also added on a hot tub addition off of that. He was a retired NFL player and also owned a gym at one point in his life (that's where he met his wife who was 20 years younger than him). His equipment was outrageous. We upped his service from 200A to 400A because of the equipment and the added cooling load. 

I don't know how "upscale" this gym is that you're planning, but they can get really out of hand. The owner needs to select his equipment. You can price it by just wiring for that equipment and give him the option to pipe it all the way to the panel so he can have flexibility in changing out his equipment if he chooses to. 

As to being out of panel space, a MLO panel sounds necessary.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MikeFL said:


> Floor outlets are set in concrete all the time. EMT through the slab to a box. Protect your boxes well or the trades will fill them with concrete.
> 
> I did a gym for a neighbor of mine. It was 2 story 3,200 sf/ floor and 12' ceilings on the 2nd floor. He also added on a hot tub addition off of that. He was a retired NFL player and also owned a gym at one point in his life (that's where he met his wife who was 20 years younger than him). His equipment was outrageous. We upped his service from 200A to 400A because of the equipment and the added cooling load.
> 
> ...


I assume you meant ENT, right?


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

MikeFL said:


> Floor outlets are set in concrete all the time. EMT through the slab to a box. .


But would you bust up a floor to put'm in for a remodel? 
Would that be a selling feature for the next owner or an oddball thing 
that makes it harder to sell?
P&L


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

sbrn33 said:


> Did someone really say cut a box into the glass?


Yes . Im tired of you ignoring me.. whats wrong with that?? I wired a home gym recently and all the outlets were cut into the mirrors on 3 walls


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

mikewillnot said:


> no floor outlets. poured concrete.


Assuming the poured concrete is already poured poured concrete


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

mikewillnot said:


> no floor outlets. poured concrete.


That's a problem?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

mikefl said:


> floor outlets are set in concrete all the time. Emt through the slab to a box. Protect your boxes well or the trades will fill them with concrete.


.... Ent

Why won't it allow me to capitalize?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Quote a scope of work, mirror and glass cutting by others, fudge a number for the sauna.

Bare Bones Electric will miss half the stuff and get the job.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

My reply will be in Bleu colour.,,



mikewillnot said:


> Ballpark quoting an upscale remodel project for a home gym. Three biggest problems at this point are
> 1. no list of, or specs for, the likely gym equipment, or floor plan
> 
> Without the type of gym equiment that will affect the numbers of circuits easy so expect a wild arse guess on that espcally if have threadmill there that do denfenily need it own circuit for sure.
> ...



Hope ya can get that one.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

The baseboard wiremold is a great idea, gives them the option to add/delete at will.... future proof.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I've never seen a 20 amp electric sauna stove. Not saying they aren't out there. Just figure a 40-50 amp circuit there. It's all BS anyway. You can't bid a job you don't have any specs for!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

mikewillnot said:


> no floor outlets. poured concrete.


Strip of wiremold along the base of the aluminum track the glass is footed in.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Next reincarnated said:


> Yes . Im tired of you ignoring me.. whats wrong with that?? I wired a home gym recently and all the outlets were cut into the mirrors on 3 walls


Big difference between boxes in a framed wall skinned in a mirror veneer and a 'glass wall' like a typical handball court. Unless your boxes are 3/16" depth they aren't going in the glass panel.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> .... Ent
> 
> Why won't it allow me to capitalize?


It doesn't want you yelling in here.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

This is a "ballpark" price which might mean somebody is putting estimates together to get an idea how much the project will cost. If that's the case, I would go in with a defined scope of work with conditions such as "subject to site visit" and "subject to specification review" and go in on the high side. I call these estimates, not quotations.

If I'm not tight with the GC, I don't really take these seriously.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Here is my bid of $xxxx.oo for my scope of work that includes:

Perimeter receptacles spaced as per NEC code.

Wiremold receptacles on glass partition wall.

40amp 240v circuit for sauna.

Specific circuits for machines requiring individual circuits are not included in this bid.

Sound system wiring and installation would also be extra.

Any additional work would also require additional charges.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Next reincarnated said:


> Yes . Im tired of you ignoring me.. whats wrong with that?? I wired a home gym recently and all the outlets were cut into the mirrors on 3 walls


A mirror is much different than glass as it has a wall behind it to hide the box. Goofy


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Sound system wiring and installation would also be extra.


Good point, might be wall mount TVs too.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> Good point, might be wall mount TVs too.


Lights and ceiling fans also? Ceiling mount dehumidifier?


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Big difference between boxes in a framed wall skinned in a mirror veneer and a 'glass wall' like a typical handball court. Unless your boxes are 3/16" depth they aren't going in the glass panel.


I used side strap 1900s with 1" mudrings.. decora receptacles and plastic glass type plates the customer provided... no issues


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

sbrn33 said:


> A mirror is much different than glass as it has a wall behind it to hide the box. Goofy


Lol i miswrote it..

edited.. i wrote cut intonglass by glass guy.. but i meant mirrors.. i didnt deal with glass walls rhere


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

sbrn33 said:


> A mirror is much different than glass as it has a wall behind it to hide the box. Goofy


Andbfor thebglass i offered the floor outlets as an option . Silly


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Next reincarnated said:


> I used side strap 1900s with 1" mudrings.. decora receptacles and plastic glass type plates the customer provided... no issues


You missed the point. 

Point was you aren't putting a box in a 1/4" safety glass partition wall.


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> You missed the point.
> 
> Point was you aren't putting a box in a 1/4" safety glass partition wall.


Read above .. i went back and realize what I originally said was wrong... a glass guy on that job did the mirrors, i wrote it wrong


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Next reincarnated said:


> Read above .. i went back and realize what I originally said was wrong... a glass guy on that job did the mirrors, i wrote it wrong


No problem!:thumbsup:


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> No problem!:thumbsup:


Its nice to see sone action on here.. lasr time i checked in it was a ghost town


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Next reincarnated said:


> Its nice to see sone action on here.. lasr time i checked in it was a ghost town


I can understand that, it has it's ups and downs.

Used to be really busy when I first joined.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Next reincarnated said:


> Read above .. i went back and realize what I originally said was wrong... a glass guy on that job did the mirrors, i wrote it wrong


You said your were wrong? Is it OK if I use that as my sig line?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

When I do mirrors in resi I use those adjustable boxes that come with the cheap floor recepts. Then I set them all the way out so the glass guys have to do their job.


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## Next reincarnated (Feb 5, 2017)

sbrn33 said:


> You said your were wrong? Is it OK if I use that as my sig line?


 im a changed soul


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Don't forget cord drops.

These are common in many commercial gyms.

No-one wants cords draped over the flooring... unless they're very short runs.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Don't forget the appliance circuit(s) for the juice maker and ice machine.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> Don't forget cord drops.
> 
> These are common in many commercial gyms.
> 
> No-one wants cords draped over the flooring... unless they're very short runs.


Better ones use floor outlets.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> Don't forget the appliance circuit(s) for the juice maker and ice machine.



Juice maker










Ice machine


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Juice maker


In this picture, one can plainly see there is plenty of room to install the juice maker receptacle directly under the mirror without the necessity of cutting the mirror or installing them in the floor. Caution should be taken when moving the dumbells out of the work area to avoid personal injury.



MechanicalDVR said:


> Ice machine


Again, here in this photo it is plain to see there is no need to cut the mirror to install a receptacle; because as one can plainly see, there is no mirror.

Thanks for sharing the photos Mech. It does make installtion and code related questions easier to answer. A picture truly is worth a thousand words.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> In this picture, one can plainly see there is plenty of room to install the juice maker receptacle directly under the mirror without the necessity of cutting the mirror or installing them in the floor. Caution should be taken when moving the dumbells out of the work area to avoid personal injury.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:thumbsup:
Welcome anytime!


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Not that it matters but I would take the second one way before the first.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> Not that it matters but I would take the second one way before the first.


It matters as much as whether I'd rather be superman or spiderman.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Not that it matters but I would take the second one way before the first.


Neither have the two outstanding features that tend to attract my attention most!


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## mdnitedrftr (Aug 21, 2013)

We usually run a 12-3 to the gym and split it up evenly. More than likely there is only going to be 1 person using the equipment at any one time. What does a typical treadmill draw? 10A maybe? So even if someone else joins them, there should be plenty of power.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

And will this home gym require AFCI protection? I hear treadmills & AFCIs don't get along too well.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> And will this home gym require AFCI protection? I hear treadmills & AFCIs don't get along too well.


Good point!


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## nigavi (3 mo ago)

Very expensive juice maker, but always welcome.


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