# Can I own a residential construction business if I am in the IBEW



## haulinbass (Jun 4, 2015)

I have a chance to get on the IBEW and was wondering if I could legally operate a business doing none-electrical work in residential construction. 

As far as I understand you just can't legally work in any field that is electric related. 

Thanks


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Why would you want to ? you will make more as an IBEW worker


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

haulinbass said:


> I have a chance to get on the IBEW and was wondering if I could legally operate a business doing none-electrical work in residential construction.
> 
> As far as I understand you just can't legally work in any field that is electric related.
> 
> Thanks


Do you pay Union wages in you RCB


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

dronai said:


> Why would you want to ? you will make more as an IBEW worker



Not when you're on the bench half the year. There's at least a couple one man resi shops in my city owned and operated by union guys. It's allowed since the work is non competing. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

dronai said:


> Why would you want to ? you will make more as an IBEW worker


I worked with a guy that did this his construction business took off and he quit the local to do residential full time.


He makes durn more money doing residential work.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I know of 3 different guys in my local who do exactly that.

One has a driveway sealing business, one does light residential landscaping all summer and plowing in the winter, and the other build baby barns and small sheds.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Rollie73 said:


> I know of 3 different guys in my local who do exactly that.
> 
> One has a driveway sealing business, one does light residential landscaping all summer and plowing in the winter, and the other build baby barns and small sheds.


:thumbsup:

I know it is hard for some people to understand but there are guys making millions that started off pumping poop from porta potties. Bought their own truck then trucks. Find a need excel at it and charge enough and you can do better than working for someone else.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

dronai said:


> Why would you want to ? you will make more as an IBEW worker


This depends entirely on the person. Some will lose money, some will break even, some will make the same money, and a few will make a ton of money.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

deffinetly not bashing unions, i been taught by some of the best! but ive also been around enough to go through the 'workin out of the union can get you banned' to the same people doing under the table work that they dont want others to know about. all due respect, when times are hard you gotta do what you gotta do!


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

another take on that is you can probly own anything you want, as long as you stay current with the union


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## haulinbass (Jun 4, 2015)

> Why would you want to ? you will make more as an IBEW worker


It's never a bad thing to have multiple sources of income and options. You never know what the future will bring. Besides that it could get me through lay offs, tax write offs, potentially open up the doors for other things down the road. I also invest in real estate, something I am slowly building on. 



> Do you pay Union wages in you RCB


No it's not a big business. Me and my brother are the owners and only employees. The only help we ever have is a young kid who just wants to make a few bucks here and there. Just something we always done on the side.

So judging by the responses it appears that it is legal to run a registered company and work for the IBEW as long as it isn't electrical work.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

haulinbass said:


> It's never a bad thing to have multiple sources of income and options. You never know what the future will bring. Besides that it could get me through lay offs, tax write offs, potentially open up the doors for other things down the road. I also invest in real estate, something I am slowly building on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is it with tradesmen and "tax write offs" obsessions. Tax write offs are expenses and losses for a business. They result in a net loss after taxes. Both are bad and things you don't want. You have a lot to learn about owning a business.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Didn't know there was that many layoffs. Heard a lot of guys on here make $100K as union employees. Self employment can be tough stuff


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

dronai said:


> Why would you want to ? you will make more as an IBEW worker


 not necessarily ? As a matter of fact , I made 6 fixtures for 6 years in a row , until I got in the IBEW , lol ?


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

haulinbass said:


> I have a chance to get on the IBEW and was wondering if I could legally operate a business doing none-electrical work in residential construction. As far as I understand you just can't legally work in any field that is electric related. Thanks


 I've always prescribed to the " it's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission " mantra . Do whatever you want , keep paying your dues , nobody will care one way or the other , except the die hards who will surely call you a rat / scab , while they're sitting home getting close to running out of unemployment ?


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## haulinbass (Jun 4, 2015)

Dude tax write offs save you money. I can buy whatever I need and claim it as a buisiness expense therefor decreasing my taxable income. If you are buying expensive stuff have a registered buisiness and arent writing it off your a complete fool. Why would I not claim these things against my income and end up getting taxed more? I have no idea where you formulated this idea that you will be at a loss if you claim buisiness expenses.


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

To make a decent living in the IBEW you need to work 40 hrs.a week,52 weeks a year. Very tough to do in the east,unless your connected!


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

But, but you can write it off!!


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Spunk#7 said:


> To make a decent living in the IBEW you need to work 40 hrs.a week,52 weeks a year. Very tough to do in the east,unless your connected!


Not in DC.

I have told this before, when I was working as an IBEW electrician I missed one day in 15 years, and that day I did some drywall finishing for a guy. I use to drywall on the side. 

Finishing drywall can be boring but nothing to think about up, down, left, right music blaring. No risk, no pressure, no problems.

But I could not do that full time, I need change.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

drumnut08 said:


> not necessarily ? As a matter of fact , I made 6 fixtures for 6 years in a row , until I got in the IBEW , lol ?


 I meant figures , not fixtures , but oddly appropriate ?


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

haulinbass said:


> Dude tax write offs save you money. I can buy whatever I need and claim it as a buisiness expense therefor decreasing my taxable income. If you are buying expensive stuff have a registered buisiness and arent writing it off your a complete fool. Why would I not claim these things against my income and end up getting taxed more? I have no idea where you formulated this idea that you will be at a loss if you claim buisiness expenses.


Your taxable income is your income minus your expenses. All they are is expenses, not some special free money. Having expenses is a bad thing. You are making it sound like it is good to have expenses because you can "write off" the expenses and that you get your "write offs" back and as free money. All it does is decrease what you pay in taxes, but only by what your tax rate is (probably only around %20). 

Do you actually think that a write off is when you get 100% of your expenses returned to you???


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

henderson14 said:


> Your taxable income is your income minus your expenses. All they are is expenses, not some special free money. Having expenses is a bad thing. You are making it sound like it is good to have expenses because you can "write off" the expenses and that you get your "write offs" back and as free money. All it does is decrease what you pay in taxes, but only by what your tax rate is (probably only around %20). Do you actually think that a write off is when you get 100% of your expenses returned to you???


 He said 

"I can buy whatever I need and claim it as a buisiness expense therefor decreasing my taxable income."

He is correct.

I'm not sure where you got this:

"Do you actually think that a write off is when you get 100% of your expenses returned to you???"


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## Lemus"TheDon"Navarro (Jun 1, 2011)

*Just an FYI*

A guy was caught in my locals area of operation working a SCAB electric company on a site they talked to him and shut it down he was a card caring IBEW member out of another local they fined him like $3500 and pulled his whole crew out and a union company now has the work there just saying guess depends on your scale of work I have heard of a union member doing a resi project for a buddy got caught was fined also he said he barely broke even with that fine since they told him he owed the wage of union members if they did the build so I guess it's at your own risk do what you want your an adult just be aware of possibilities that's all


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Lemus"TheDon"Navarro said:


> A guy was caught in my locals area of operation working a SCAB electric company on a site they talked to him and shut it down he was a card caring IBEW member out of another local they fined him like $3500 and pulled his whole crew out and a union company now has the work there just saying guess depends on your scale of work I have heard of a union member doing a resi project for a buddy got caught was fined also he said he barely broke even with that fine since they told him he owed the wage of union members if they did the build so I guess it's at your own risk do what you want your an adult just be aware of possibilities that's all


 that's a different story . If he's doing larger / commercial Union type jobs , and he is literally competing with his local and doesn't have his card shelved , he's definitely breaking some rules . My local doesn't care if you shelve your card and operate a non compete electrical contracting business . If you get too big and start cutting into their action and territory , that's when you can have problems . I know several guys who have left to try their own thing , and went back of it didn't work out ? The key is letting your local know what you're doing ahead of time .


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

This guy is talking about construction, not electrical work. There is NO conflict and thus no problem with his plan.


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## haulinbass (Jun 4, 2015)

> This guy is talking about construction, not electrical work. There is NO conflict and thus no problem with his plan.


Thanks that's the type of answer I was looking for. I already knew it but I just wanted some verification to rest any doubts.



> Your taxable income is your income minus your expenses. All they are is expenses, not some special free money. Having expenses is a bad thing. You are making it sound like it is good to have expenses because you can "write off" the expenses and that you get your "write offs" back and as free money. All it does is decrease what you pay in taxes, but only by what your tax rate is (probably only around %20).
> 
> Do you actually think that a write off is when you get 100% of your expenses returned to you???


I'm sorry but you should spend more time reading and learning around here than making posts trying to advise people. I'll try this one last time

Let me give you a scenario. I want a Kubota tractor. This tractor holds value and I can make it pay for itself. I can use this tractor for my construction business, I can use it for my real estate investment business, I can use it for myself, I can use it to help friends. I can claim 85% of its cost towards my business and 15% of it towards personal use. Therefor I can legally use it for personal reasons and nobody can ever question me. That's called being smart, it's called an investment. Now at the end of the year my construction business only put 10 grand in my pocket and paid for the tractor. The buisiness served its purpose for ME. Over the years it will assure my returns in my real estate investments and then I can sell it for cash when I retire. How much money did this "business expense" make me all said and done? I already said I don't depend on this business to pay my bills. My business is about assuring my other business success and supplementing my investment capital. A paid off tractor is also equity that can be used to leverage more money that can be used to make money. I don't let my spare money sit around I invest it. All of my worth is into investments that make more money for me. When that more money is made i reinvest it to make even more money. I am interested in the union because I can hit the road and work ******ed hours on pretty high wages as long as I want. I can come back with serious money that i can invest. I don't plan on working for anybody forever. Eventually the only thing that is going to be working is my money. I'm about working hard now and be hardly working later. That's my motto

That's a real simple version.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Thats because so many Union Brothers (sic) are working for scabs and teaching scabs our trade ..


Spunk#7 said:


> To make a decent living in the IBEW you need to work 40 hrs.a week,52 weeks a year. Very tough to do in the east,unless your connected!


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Divecoz said:


> Thats because so many Union Brothers (sic) are working for scabs and teaching scabs our trade ..


Anyone using the term SCAB to describe another person needs to think about their life and how they view others. This puts you in line with bigots.

1. JUST FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE I was a union member and now a union contractor. 
2. Union members with your mentality are what hurt the union and in my experience 45 years in the trade those with your outlook generally are hacks and slackers. 
2. Open shop men do not need "brothers" to teach them the trade. That is such an ignorant statement. There are no secrets to doing electric work, no magic you have in your head, nothing special that the average Joe off the street can't be taught.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

#1. I beat you by a year..  and I am retired . Why are you still working?
#2. After having been through a 4 year IBEW Apprenticeship Program I can assure you that just anyone off the street wouldnt have graduated our 4 year Apprenticeship Program.There is a lot to learn and you wont learn most of it working Non Union. You will learn the fundamental Basics , but thats it PERIOD.
Who is there to Teach You, Motor Control ,Transformers and Fire Alarm ( thats just a start) If you walk into a Non Union shop where the majority have had NO Formal Training , you will be teaching everyone you come in contact with. 



Bad Electrician said:


> Anyone using the term SCAB to describe another person needs to think about their life and how they view others. This puts you in line with bigots.
> 
> 1. JUST FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE I was a union member and now a union contractor.
> 2. Union members with your mentality are what hurt the union and in my experience 45 years in the trade those with your outlook generally are hacks and slackers.
> 2. Open shop men do not need "brothers" to teach them the trade. That is such an ignorant statement. There are no secrets to doing electric work, no magic you have in your head, nothing special that the average Joe off the street can't be taught.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> #1. I beat you by a year..  and I am retired . Why are you still working?
> #2. After having been through a 4 year IBEW Apprenticeship Program I can assure you that just anyone off the street wouldnt have graduated our 4 year Apprenticeship Program.There is a lot to learn and you wont learn most of it working Non Union. You will learn the fundamental Basics , but thats it PERIOD.
> Who is there to Teach You, Motor Control ,Transformers and Fire Alarm ( thats just a start) If you walk into a Non Union shop where the majority have had NO Formal Training , you will be teaching everyone you come in contact with.


That's funny, I've learned all that you have mentioned and didn't go through a union apprenticeship. Your way ain't the only way. Is it the best way? probably, but not the only way.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Divecoz said:


> #1. I beat you by a year..  and I am retired . Why are you still working?


I love what I do I own and operate a union shop that employees around 25 people on average, I see no reason to retire.



> #2. After having been through a 4 year IBEW Apprenticeship Program I can assure you that just anyone off the street wouldnt have graduated our 4 year Apprenticeship Program.There is a lot to learn and you wont learn most of it working Non Union. You will learn the fundamental Basics , but thats it PERIOD.
> Who is there to Teach You, Motor Control ,Transformers and Fire Alarm ( thats just a start) If you walk into a Non Union shop where the majority have had NO Formal Training , you will be teaching everyone you come in contact with.


Part of the work My firm specializes in is testing and maintenance and a large percentage of my customers are electrical contractors, union and open shop and there as many idiots in the local as open shop. I will say generally the better smarter open shop men usually go union at some point sliding in the back door (LIKE I DID).


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Dawgs : I will quickly address your response first.. 
I briefly mention 3 topics and you immediatley make the claim " I've learned all that you have mentioned" I am NOT going to disclose what was and still is, involved with learning prosess for those three aspects of our trade , because I dont want to see it repeated later as though it was common mutual knowledge, so I will ask you what school offered you no less than 2 college credit semesters worth of classes with both theory and hands on application and hook up.? 
Bad El. I will now address your personal attack.. I am Far From a Hack or a Slacker.. I didnt come in through the back door. I didnt BUY my ticket . 
I went through and completed , in the top 15% of my class ( 40 Grad. Students). The IBEW 4 Year JW Class, is known Nation wide to be and accepted as The Standard The High Bar the Most Demanding and Intensive 4 ( now 5 Year ) Electrical Industry Trade class In This Country ..It as well, far exceeeds the rest of the world with a very few exceptions. I have worked with Journeymen Electricians and Electrical Engineers from all over the world . I ran Work for... Fischback, LE Myers and Bechtel just to name a few. I wont even waste my time addressing the rest of yor claims..except to say .. In My Eyes with your attitude your still a non Union Electrician who has never worked outside the Hills of VA making a lot of unsubstantiated claims on a chat board. For the moment I will keep my suspicions to myself.. Without successfully having gone through the IBEW 4 Year program your ticket should be classified IW Not JW..


dawgs said:


> That's funny, I've learned all that you have mentioned and didn't go through a union apprenticeship. Your way ain't the only way. Is it the best way? probably, but not the only way.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh boy, this is gonna get fun.


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

Divecoz said:


> Dawgs : I will quickly address your response first..
> I briefly mention 3 topics and you immediatley make the claim " I've learned all that you have mentioned" I am NOT going to disclose what was and still is, involved with learning prosess for those three aspects of our trade , because I dont want to see it repeated later as though it was common mutual knowledge, so I will ask you what school offered you no less than 2 college credit semesters worth of classes with both theory and hands on application and hook up.?
> Bad El. I will now address your personal attack.. I am Far From a Hack or a Slacker.. I didnt come in through the back door. I didnt BUY my ticket .
> I went through and completed , in the top 15% of my class ( 40 Grad. Students). The IBEW 4 Year JW Class, is known Nation wide to be and accepted as The Standard The High Bar the Most Demanding and Intensive 4 ( now 5 Year ) Electrical Industry Trade class In This Country ..It as well, far exceeeds the rest of the world with a very few exceptions. I have worked with Journeymen Electricians and Electrical Engineers from all over the world . I ran Work for... Fischback, LE Myers and Bechtel just to name a few. I wont even waste my time addressing the rest of yor claims..except to say .. In My Eyes with your attitude your still a non Union Electrician who has never worked outside the Hills of VA making a lot of unsubstantiated claims on a chat board. For the moment I will keep my suspicions to myself.. Without successfully having gone through the IBEW 4 Year program your ticket should be classified IW Not JW..


 So, all that babble basically confirms you're a POS legend in you're own mind and just another migrant to FL.  


FYI, Bad Electrician's company works all over the country, I think even as far as Hawaii


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Oh boy, this is gonna get fun.


Oh hell yeah. Ive got the popcorn. :laughing:


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Fibes: you can call me all the names you like.. its a damn chat board.. BUT I... Am The IBEW Memeber who retired at 56 Y.O.A. and Yes I Now live in SWF on the Water Living the Life.... and I am the One Laughing at you. Oh and BTW you Think? .


Fibes said:


> So, all that babble basically confirms you're a POS legend in you're own mind and just another migrant to FL.
> 
> 
> FYI, Bad Electrician's company works all over the country, _I think even as far as Hawai_i


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

Divecoz said:


> Fibes: you can call me all the names you like.. its a damn chat board.. BUT I... Am The IBEW Memeber who retired at 56 Y.O.A. and Yes I Now live in SWF on the Water Living the Life.... and I am the One Laughing at you. Oh and BTW you Think? .


 Oh, I'm not calling you names, I just pointed out an observation and for all you know, I just may be your neighbor.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Bow down boys! We have been blessed with an electrical God to the forum!


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

dawgs said:


> Bow down boys! We have been blessed with an electrical God to the forum!


Except they never post anything in regards to electrical or Code issues.

Of the brains on here that really know their stuff, do they let on how or where they gained their knowledge? No they are honest and forth coming with their information.


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

Well, I have figured out one thing, these hardcore non electrical IBEW execs don't have enter keys on their keyboards. Go back and look at the similarities in crammed together posts of Brother Noah and Dives. :thumbup:


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Why should we answer your trade questions? That would be stupid!! You want training and answers to technical problems, go to school..


Bad Electrician said:


> Except they never post anything in regards to electrical or Code issues.
> 
> Of the brains on here that really know their stuff, do they let on how or where they gained their knowledge? No they are honest and forth coming with their information.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> Why should we answer your trade questions? That would be stupid!! You want training and answers to technical problems, go to school..


That's a good cop out.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Its Not a Cop Out at all.. Why in the hell should I help someone who claims to know it all, already? We are not buddies.. ( though I have friends who are non-union tradesmen) You guys are the ones hiring Illegals NOT UNION IBEW Contractors.. Its the SOSDD ya'll dont needs no schooling fer nothing.. I'es doesnt needs no pension or that damn insurance crap..OSHA is a bunch of Pinko Commies just like them there EPA fellers..


dawgs said:


> That's a good cop out.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> Its Not a Cop Out at all.. Why in the hell should I help someone who claims to know it all, already? We are not buddies.. ( though I have friends who are non-union tradesmen) You guys are the ones hiring Illegals NOT UNION IBEW Contractors.. Its the SOSDD ya'll dont needs no schooling fer nothing.. I'es doesnt needs no pension or that damn insurance crap..OSHA is a bunch of Pinko Commies just like them there EPA fellers..


Not sure if your referring to me or Bad Electrician. But for your info he is a union contractor. I am also a union contractor, so there go's that scenario we are hiring illegals.

I believe the reference was to you not answering questions in other threads. Questions that are asked by union hands as well as nonunion hands.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

Divecoz said:


> Its Not a Cop Out at all.. Why in the hell should I help someone who claims to know it all, already? We are not buddies.. ( though I have friends who are non-union tradesmen) You guys are the ones hiring Illegals NOT UNION IBEW Contractors.. Its the SOSDD ya'll dont needs no schooling fer nothing.. I'es doesnt needs no pension or that damn insurance crap..OSHA is a bunch of Pinko Commies just like them there EPA fellers..


Many non union shops offer retirement plans, health insurance, and apprenticeships.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

MANY? or Some? or a few?????????? ALL UNION Electricians have Retirement Plans ,Health Insurance and App Programs..


Mulder said:


> Many non union shops offer retirement plans, health insurance, and apprenticeships.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Still waiting for Dive to bring something of merit to the forum......

For someone who is retired and "living the good life," you sure spend a lot of time here and not living.

It's hard for some people to have a benefit to society. You my friend, appear to be one. Enjoy yourself with all your free time and miserableness.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

*My Thesaurus floweth over*

Bravado....bragadoccio....hubris........conceit.....egocentrism....vanity.....narcissismn....vainglory....conceitedness.....bumptiousness ~CS~:laughing:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> Bravado....bragadoccio....hubris........conceit.....egocentrism....vanity.....narcissismn....vainglory....conceitedness.....bumptiousness ~CS~:laughing:


OR
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

Mark Twain

I am convinced this guy is strictly a troll with little or no electrical background .


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