# Making KO's in boxes



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Let's say I had a single gang box, can I drill a 7/8" hole and bring a romex connector into any side of the box? The listing doesn't say that you can or can't.
> 
> I know this is common on larger boxes, but what about small ones? Is there any reason why I can't drill thru a random flat spot on the box for a connector?



If it is a wet location, you will have to use a proper sealing device if the hole is above any splices or connections. Hows that for starters?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

paper or plastic/ er i mean metal or plastic? on a metal box theres usually no room to drill another hole without hitting one already there


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Let's say I had a single gang box, can I drill a 7/8" hole and bring a romex connector into any side of the box? The listing doesn't say that you can or can't.
> 
> I know this is common on larger boxes, but what about small ones? Is there any reason why I can't drill thru a random flat spot on the box for a connector?


I'm assuming you're talking about a non metallic box ? I don't see a problem with it as long as the cable is secured and you're using a connector . Would this be something exposed exposed , or concealed ? If concealed , I really wouldn't worry about it , lol !


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Plastic, metal, exposed, concealed, all of the above.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Plastic, metal, exposed, concealed, all of the above.


My only concern with metal would be taking out part of another KO 's concentric . As far as a code violation , good question ? I could see an inspector having a problem with it if said cable is entering the box too close to the opening . Not to mention , good luck getting a device in there then . I drilled out the very corner of a 4 11/16" box once for a 3/4" conduit . It worked beautifully and nobody ever said a thing , lol !


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is just out of curiosity, there is no specific situation in which I am trying to do this.

One time I needed to add a light on a ceiling about 10' away from an existing light which was in the same joist cavity. I just removed the light, drilled a hole in the side of the plastic round box with a unibit, pushed a snake thru the hole to the other box location, then pulled in a piece of romex. Snapped in a button connector and called it a day. Seems fine to me.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Hackwork upon hackwork, upon hackwork!:thumbsup:


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> This is just out of curiosity, there is no specific situation in which I am trying to do this.
> 
> One time I needed to add a light on a ceiling about 10' away from an existing light which was in the same joist cavity. I just removed the light, drilled a hole in the side of the plastic round box with a unibit, pushed a snake thru the hole to the other box location, then pulled in a piece of romex. Snapped in a button connector and called it a day. Seems fine to me.


Seems fine to me too , although I'm sure someone here will not approve , lol !


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

IMO it would depend on the box. If the box was a standard 1 gang nail on plastic box then it could be argued that it is not listed for that purpose. However I don't see an issue with it. Metal switch boxes have ko's on the side so I don't see a safety issue with it . It could be an issue if the hole was to far forward and a gfci was installed.

So what I am saying is "IDK" Technically not compliant but I am sure many inspectors would pass it and others fail it.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> IMO it would depend on the box. If the box was a standard 1 gang nail on plastic box then it could be argued that it is not listed for that purpose. However I don't see an issue with it. Metal switch boxes have ko's on the side so I don't see a safety issue with it . It could be an issue if the hole was to far forward and a gfci was installed.
> 
> So what I am saying is "IDK" Technically not compliant but I am sure many inspectors would pass it and others fail it.


Are you running for office?!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> IMO it would depend on the box. If the box was a standard 1 gang nail on plastic box then it could be argued that it is not listed for that purpose. However I don't see an issue with it. Metal switch boxes have ko's on the side so I don't see a safety issue with it . It could be an issue if the hole was to far forward and a gfci was installed.
> 
> So what I am saying is "IDK" Technically not compliant but I am sure many inspectors would pass it and others fail it.


 That's a resounding "MAYBE!" :laughing:

I may even be the type of guy who installs connectors on LBs.... :shifty:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Wireless said:


> Are you running for office?!


Trust me -- a politician I am not. I just don't want others to just do it, even tho I don't see a problem, and not expect a red tag.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Meh, if it fits it ships. I wouldn't use a metallic connector on a non-metallic box due to grounding problems, but I have zipped KOs in plastic boxes and to tie in Carflex or whatnot before. I don't think metallic connectors are technically a code violation with a non-metallic box, but metallic raceways are, so plan ahead. Black buttons are cheaper and easier anyway. Most metal boxes have KO's pre-punched already, so no issues there.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Dude even a 12x12 metallic box with no KOs isn't listed for field punching and it says so right on them. Regardless it is done every day because common sense should prevail over the incessant need of the do gooders to follow the rules without question.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> Dude even a 12x12 metallic box with no KOs isn't listed for field punching and it says so right on them. Regardless it is done every day because common sense should prevail over the incessant need of the do gooders to follow the rules without question.



I want to see the listing/documentation that says a j-box with no holes cannot be punched out to accept a conduit or cable connector. It's not that I don't believe you, I don't believe anybody. :no:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> I want to see the listing/documentation that says a j-box with no holes cannot be punched out to accept a conduit or cable connector. It's not that I don't believe you, I don't believe anybody. :no:


Look it up. I ain't doing your homework


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> Dude even a 12x12 metallic box with no KOs isn't listed for field punching and it says so right on them. Regardless it is done every day because common sense should prevail over the incessant need of the do gooders to follow the rules without question.


 what good is abox with no way to enter?:whistling2:


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## PetrosA (Feb 18, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> Look it up. I ain't doing your homework


I did and you're wrong.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

papaotis said:


> what good is abox with no way to enter?:whistling2:


It's not prohibited. It just states it hasn't been tested with field made holes. Kinda like UR labeled components. 

Or did you mean that in a dirty sexy way? Because that's how I read it


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Look it up. I ain't doing your homework


You sound like one of the "health care" authors!:whistling2:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

PetrosA said:


> I did and you're wrong.


Believe what you want. I will open one up tomorrow and take a picture of the label. That is if I gave a f**k.


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## PetrosA (Feb 18, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> ... That is if I gave a f**k.



If you're giving one away, send me a pic. I'll try to get excited beforehand.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

PetrosA said:


> If you're giving one away, send me a pic. I'll try to get excited beforehand.


All I'm saying is field modifying a tested and listed product may remove UL listings. If an enclosures comes with no KOs but does have markings where they would go then you're supposed to follow the manufacturers instructions. If it doesn't say you can't do it then go nuts. Personally I make holes in cabinets all day long without giving it a second thought just like everybody else. I only brought the issue up because this thread started out talking about other stupid 110.3(B) issues.


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## PetrosA (Feb 18, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> All I'm saying is field modifying a tested and listed product may remove UL listings. If an enclosures comes with no KOs but does have markings where they would go then you're supposed to follow the manufacturers instructions. If it doesn't say you can't do it then go nuts. Personally I make holes in cabinets all day long without giving it a second thought just like everybody else. I only brought the issue up because this thread started out talking about other stupid 110.3(B) issues.


So ultimately, we agree. There are too many stupid UL issues for me to take them seriously. This is one good example, cable staples are another. You gotta pick your battles.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

PetrosA said:


> So ultimately, we agree. There are too many stupid UL issues for me to take them seriously. This is one good example, cable staples are another. You gotta pick your battles.


Amen. If you had me pegged as the Good Samaritan NEC/UL nazi that was my fault


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## PetrosA (Feb 18, 2012)

I try not to peg people. I tend to have bad aim


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