# Emergency lighting on same circuits as general lighting



## John M. (Oct 29, 2016)

I understand that code calls for emergency lighting to be on the same circuit as the general lighting, ahead of the switch. Here's my problem, the general lighting is 240 VAC, but the emergency fixtures are 120 or 277 VAC only. How do you accomplish what NEC wants?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

John M. said:


> I understand that code calls for emergency lighting to be on the same circuit as the general lighting, ahead of the switch. Here's my problem, the general lighting is 240 VAC, but the emergency fixtures are 120 or 277 VAC only. How do you accomplish what NEC wants?


get the right fixtures


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Same panel feed*



John M. said:


> I understand that code calls for emergency lighting to be on the same circuit as the general lighting, ahead of the switch. Here's my problem, the general lighting is 240 VAC, but the emergency fixtures are 120 or 277 VAC only. How do you accomplish what NEC wants?


I think you mean same panel not same circuit. If so boost a circuit from the 240 volt panel to a small 277 volts panel, if you have a lot of lights already. I have so many light circuits and exit/em lights they can't be on the same circuit. 480 Lights 277 volt exit/em. Just same panel, so if panel goes out lights go on.


Cowboy


Just my 2 cents and 2 more points for Toys


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

just the cowboy said:


> I think you mean same panel not same circuit. If so boost a circuit from the 240 volt panel to a small 277 volts panel, if you have a lot of lights already. I have so many light circuits and exit/em lights they can't be on the same circuit. 480 Lights 277 volt exit/em. Just same panel, so if panel goes out lights go on.
> 
> 
> Cowboy
> ...


Seen that in hospital OR’s 
Sucs when the light circuit trips and the battery lights still stay off. 
(Panel on Pri 1 EM riser)


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

The emergency lights (unit equipment/batteries/charger) are supposed to be on the same circuit for the area served. There is an exception for large areas with more than three circuits. 

There are other options. If you can get 120V from somewhere, you can use a relay. This way when the normal lights go out it will trigger the EM lights. 

https://www.functionaldevices.com/products/lighting-controls/ul924-emergency-relays/


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Or a little buck/boost

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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I put them on their own circuits. Keeps me from having to shut all the lights out to service them.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Helmut said:


> I put them on their own circuits. Keeps me from having to shut all the lights out to service them.


code violation. NEC 700.12(F)(2)(3): The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment (battery pack light) shall be the same circuit as that serving the the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches. There is an exception for large areas with 3 or more lighting circuits.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

tmessner said:


> code violation. NEC 700.12(F)(2)(3): The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment (battery pack light) shall be the same circuit as that serving the the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches. There is an exception for large areas with 3 or more lighting circuits.


Don't care.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Helmut said:


> Don't care.


It's a life safety issue. You should care. 

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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

B-Nabs said:


> It's a life safety issue. You should care.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Explain how them being on their own circuit, from the same panel as where lighting originates, constitutes a life safety issue?


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

(F) is for battery powered exit signs and similar self contained emergency systems. (A) through (E) cover generators and similar backup systems. I accidentally put the emergency lights on the backup generator once...big mistake. The lights stayed off when the building lost power because the generator kept power on them. As the IT guy said the only light was the fridge in his office and server LEDs.

That's the point of that section...avoiding a moron move like I did.

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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Helmut said:


> Explain how them being on their own circuit, from the same panel as where lighting originates, constitutes a life safety issue?


Because the breaker for the lights in an area could trip and the emergency lights won't come on if the whole panel didn't lose power. I have seen more than one final inspection failed for exactly this reason, and I agree with that call.

ETA: I'm in Canada, but it sounds like our codes are similar in this area. 

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## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

B-Nabs said:


> Helmut said:
> 
> 
> > Explain how them being on their own circuit, from the same panel as where lighting originates, constitutes a life safety issue?
> ...


I agree I wounder how he would even pass inspection , most inspectors will turn off the breaker and want to see the lights go off exits and em lights go on .


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

It’s even crazier now with all the energy efficiency. Most EM lights are controlled by the room switch and come on even if the switch is off. If it’s controlled by a dimmer, it has to override the dimmer and come up to full bright. 

Add in all the relays for low voltage switching like N-Light, and it might be easier to wire a motor control center than a lay-in


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Helmut said:


> Don't care.


I'm turning you in to the authorities.


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## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

flyboy said:


> Helmut said:
> 
> 
> > Don't care.
> ...


Lol that’s what inspectors are for .


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

flyboy said:


> I'm turning you in to the authorities.


You should just fly over there and give him a stern talking to. He seems like the kind of guy that is quite reasonable!

I don't even bother with EM lights anymore, everyone has a phone with a flashlight on it now anyways.


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## cwsims84 (Jan 21, 2012)

Who the **** uses 240v lights anymore?? Sounds like whoever put together your lighting package is an asshole/idiot... that being said, Eaton Greengate room controller will accommodate 120v/277v simultaneously all the while with a built in 924... mother ****in magical! Calling lighting guy and let him know you have to do your job and don’t have time to do his also..... also a thought, can the driver/ballast be swapped to accommodate on the 240 lights?


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

B-Nabs said:


> Because the breaker for the lights in an area could trip and the emergency lights won't come on if the whole panel didn't lose power.



I see, kinda like someone turning the wrong wall switch off.

I wonder if their are stats somewhere that show how many lives were lost to this action of shutting the wall switch off. 

We are talking about life safety, right?



B-Nabs said:


> I have seen more than one final inspection failed for exactly this reason, and I agree with that call.


No need for me to work on a hot 277V circuit. I'd rather shut it off, which means all the lights have to be out. 

It's Nonsense.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

I'd imagine it would make trouble shooting light circuits easier also.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

The other trend that is coming is using a central “inverter”. Not sure why they chose that name. It’s more like a UPS. We have three jobs coming up that are using them. They are the size of PDUs like you see in a data room. One job has two of them in the same room along with three lighting control panels. 

So now it’s no longer unit equipment. The whole circuit from Inverter to lay-in is now a life safety circuit. Since theses jobs aren’t health care, they don’t have to be in conduit, but still can’t share if they are. Also have to be kept separate everywhere else. 

The hallways have the UL relays in the lighting control panels. They dim if the halls don’t sense motion. There off after a certain time of day and no motion. Room EM lights are controlled locally with the relays. All N-light. 

I’m told they’re going this route with central inverters because of compatibility issues between all the different fixture manufactures, LED manufacturers and battery manufactures. I guess this way is easier to get a listing.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

cabletie said:


> It’s even crazier now with all the energy efficiency. Most EM lights are controlled by the room switch and come on even if the switch is off. If it’s controlled by a dimmer, it has to override the dimmer and come up to full bright.
> 
> Add in all the relays for low voltage switching like N-Light, and it might be easier to wire a motor control center than a lay-in[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

manchestersparky said:


> cabletie said:
> 
> 
> > It’s even crazier now with all the energy efficiency. Most EM lights are controlled by the room switch and come on even if the switch is off. If it’s controlled by a dimmer, it has to override the dimmer and come up to full bright.
> ...


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

John M. said:


> I understand that code calls for emergency lighting to be on the same circuit as the general lighting, ahead of the switch. Here's my problem, the general lighting is 240 VAC, but the emergency fixtures are 120 or 277 VAC only. How do you accomplish what NEC wants?


 Years ago I happened to walk in on a maintenance man up on an aluminum ladder (Which was standing on a damp concrete floor) working on a hot 277V light fixture. I asked him if he wanted my wooded ladder, he said he was fine. You can guess where this is going... after a loud yell he said he could taste his fillings! My dad always said, "There is no cure for dumb."


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

"That is a violation of 700.12(F)(2)(3)
They need to be ahead of any local switches"

700.12(F) only for unit equipment (battery back up). For lights supplied by a generator and transfer switch relays are allowed. See 700.23


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

manchestersparky said:


> cabletie said:
> 
> 
> > It’s even crazier now with all the energy efficiency. Most EM lights are controlled by the room switch and come on even if the switch is off. If it’s controlled by a dimmer, it has to override the dimmer and come up to full bright.
> ...


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