# Need a recommendation....Recessed Lighting



## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

I have an existing sanctuary at a church that has 8" recessed can lights installed. The fixtures are rated for up to a 250W incandescent bulb. Ceiling height is about 20'.

When the fixtures were originally installed, the church was not happy with the lighting level in the room. So, over the course of about 8-9 years, they have tried several different types of bulbs, ending up with what they have now, which is a halogen spot. They are tired of experimenting at this point and have contacted us.

I recommended doing away with the recessed lighting and installing some T-5 HO high bays but, that isn't in their budget.

Anyone have suggestions on how to get the most light out of these things?


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

What are the rough dimensions, how are cans spread/spaced, what halogen spots are in there now (and what is the actual rating of the can for different bulbs), which trims are in the housing, and what is "too much" on the budget?


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

svh19044 said:


> What are the rough dimensions, how are cans spread/spaced, what halogen spots are in there now (and what is the actual rating of the can for different bulbs), which trims are in the housing, and what is "too much" on the budget?


The room is about 60' X 45'.
The cans are about 8-10' apart.
The existing halogens are 150W par 38.
Not sure of the rating for a different bulb, I didn't have a ladder tall enough to get above the ceiling when I was looking at it. 250W incandescent is what I was told though.
No trims on these....they are an open bottom type.
As far as budget, I'd say around $1,500 would be the upper end of it....can't say for sure though. They have to have meetings with the board to approve anything. Typical church dealings.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

You would really put T5 high bays in a church sanctuary?


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> You would really put T5 high bays in a church sanctuary?


If that is what it took to get the light level they are wanting, yep. I actually just bid on a church that was spec'd for T-5 HO's with dimmable ballasts in their Sanctuary.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

So you're looking at around 24 fixtures based on the info. you provided. With that budget you're going to work for free and probably donate some materials.


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

jw0445 said:


> So you're looking at around 24 fixtures based on the info. you provided. With that budget you're going to work for free and probably donate some materials.


The budget I mentioned was to re-lamp the existing fixtures, not to install anything new....and again, I'm just guessing at what they want to spend. Every church I've ever dealt with had a tight budget for stuff like this. This one is no exception.

I'm mostly just wondering if someone can recommend a lamp to get the most out of these things. From what I'm finding, they may just have to bite the bullet and spend some money.


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## Rafcoelec (Oct 15, 2012)

Go to your supply house and ask them to contact a lighting rep, designer don,t try being a lighting designer there is much to it use their resources it's free.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I would tell them to save their money cuz God will show them the light.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

There are plenty of free lighting programs (I-NET) that you can draw the church into and input many a lamp...

I beleive you need to go light meter the area (not cheap equipment) to understand what they have, verses where their going.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

erics37 said:


> I would tell them to save their money cuz God will show them the light.


John 3:16 bro. :laughing:

On a serious note, doing some googling I found this site:
http://www.vividleds.us/pages/church-led-lighting.html

Looks like they make PAR38 replacements that are LEDs in the 40-60w range, and seriously boost your lumen output compared to halogens. From what i have found, 150W PAR38 lamps are around 1200-1500 lumens, and this company has LEDs that do 4000-5500 lumens. You can see them here:
http://www.vividleds.us/pages/products/h18.html

They look like this:









Not sure on the price, but it is worth a shot giving them a call/email. The LED lamps will also draw 50-70% less power, so that will drop the church's light bill by a decent amount. The company also offers warm white (3000-3500k) which should be a good color for a church. Here is a link to the PDF cut sheet:
http://www.vividleds.us/cut/h18.pdf

Hope this is useful for ya. I'll keep poking around on the net to see if I can find anything else out. Also, if you are really having trouble finding something, my Uncle is a lighting distributor who serves New England, and he might have some other ideas. You can shoot me a PM if you want me to get in touch with him about it.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Your picture looks like a mega-church. Those usually aren't too hard up for cash :whistling2:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

CopperSlave said:


> I have an existing sanctuary at a church that has 8" recessed can lights installed. The fixtures are rated for up to a 250W incandescent bulb. Ceiling height is about 20'.
> 
> When the fixtures were originally installed, the church was not happy with the lighting level in the room. So, over the course of about 8-9 years, they have tried several different types of bulbs, ending up with what they have now, which is a halogen spot. They are tired of experimenting at this point and have contacted us.
> 
> ...


How about 300 watt CFLs?


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

Going_Commando said:


> John 3:16 bro. :laughing:
> 
> On a serious note, doing some googling I found this site:
> http://www.vividleds.us/pages/church-led-lighting.html
> ...


I'm going to check into those....thanks for the links.




RIVETER said:


> How about 300 watt CFLs?


That may be another option as well.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

erics37 said:


> Your picture looks like a mega-church. Those usually aren't too hard up for cash :whistling2:


naw, just choir boys.....~CS~


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

175 watt self ballasting mercury vapor Par 38s


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

That sanctuary should be around 20 foot-candles, and with the fixtures and bulbs that you state it has, they are barely at 5 foot candles. In order to have the appropriate amount of light, they are 22 recessed fixtures short with the current lamp.

Could have would have should have. You would now need roughly 10,000 lumens per fixture to achieve the recommended light level for a sanctuary. 

Do they want it dimmable? I would assume so. It pretty much makes the idea of a $1500 budget not worth your time. 

The closest idea of "relamping" I can think that will make the difference noticeable is replacing the current incandescent recessed lights with an 8" metal halide recessed housing (Nora makes them, they are remodel cans) that takes 150w Par38 MH's. 8 of these would put you right at the recommended light level. The downside is they are around $350/housing+trim+lamp and they aren't dimmable. That is over double the budget without labor.

Basically, very little you do to relamp those specific fixtures will give a noticeable difference in light, safely. If you aren't concerned about safety (for example, burning down the church), then you have plenty of options like the 300w CFL..

If they are stuck on a $1500 budget to brighten things up, I would walk.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Why are chiore boys hair always parted in the middle?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Why are chiore boys hair always parted in the middle?


Looking up too soon?????


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Going_Commando said:


> John 3:16 bro. :laughing:
> 
> On a serious note, doing some googling I found this site:
> http://www.vividleds.us/pages/church-led-lighting.html


Nice find!

I'd like to see the prices on them too.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Here is an option to consider. Great performance for the wattage. Dillards makes heavy use of these in 70W and 39W directional cans or spots. 

Ceramic Metal Halide


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Looking up too soon?????


No, from the priest stroking it telling them it's OK.


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