# 200 amp service upgrade



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*250*



markmanning said:


> Can I use 4 "0" aluminum for my 200 amp service conductors or do I need 250mil Aluminum? I am getting two different answers.


I'd do 250mcm just to be safe


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Agree with Cletis. Go the 250MCM route.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

markmanning said:


> Can I use 4 "0" aluminum for my 200 amp service conductors or do I need 250mil Aluminum? I am getting two different answers.


Table 310.15(B)(7)

You can use 4/0............Welcome to the forum..:thumbup:


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

4/0 for services....250 for feeders


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

He is from Canada... you guys are quoting NEC rules..... :no::no:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Table 310.15(B)(7)
> 
> You can use 4/0............Welcome to the forum..:thumbup:


Harry you cannot say that. If this is a 400 amp service and theres 180 amps calculated load on this panel, youd be wrong.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*safe*

you can never be to safe though. use table 310.16 90C column services


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

According to the Canadian Electrical Code, he needs to use 250MCM AL for 200A.

8
TABLE 4
(See Rules 4-004, 8-104, 12-2212, 26-000, 26-744, 42-008, 42-016 and Tables 5A, 5C, 19 and D3)
ALLOWABLE AMPACITIES FOR NOT MORE THAN 3 ALUMINUM CONDUCTORS IN RACEWAY OR CABLE
*Based on Ambient Temperature of 30°C

See attachment I've provided.

Hope this helps


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

you need 300kcmil if you want your hotdogs to cook fast


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

LOL you need to see Cletis's thread on that damn grill he's got to wire. LOL


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## nick.pei (Jun 15, 2009)

** says 4/0 for 200 amp service


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

nick.pei said:


> ** says 4/0 for 200 amp service


You got it right, Nick. I have done it three times this year, no problem.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

I dunno. On Table 4 it clearly says 250mcm AL ...but if you say so...I mean...you live in Canada...lol I don't.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

99cents said:


> You got it right, Nick. I have done it three times this year, no problem.


by the 2012 code you need atleast 250, just because your old school inspector passed it dosent mean your right. remember you cant use the 90° anymore


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

Read the table, it says services & feeders. Why would you go bigger with a feeder than with a service, lol


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

My bad Canada boys, thought for a sec that we were referring to the N.E.C


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

randas said:


> by the 2012 code you need atleast 250, just because your old school inspector passed it dosent mean your right. remember you cant use the 90° anymore


Yeah, well maybe my old school inspector knows how to read the footnotes at the bottom of the table...


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

B4T said:


> He is from Canada... you guys are quoting NEC rules..... :no::no:


Actually, it was posted in the NEC forum. Should be in the CEC forum.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

4/0 AL residential, 250 MCM AL commercial.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Harry you cannot say that. If this is a 400 amp service and theres 180 amps calculated load on this panel, youd be wrong.


Wrong , the op is doing a 200 amp service not 400.

4/0 is fine in this case.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Wrong , the op is doing a 200 amp service not 400.
> 
> 4/0 is fine in this case.


Harry is correct.

From the Canadian Handbook

* See Table 5A for the correction factors to be
applied to the values in columns 2 to 7 for ambient
temperatures over 30°C.
† The ampacity of aluminum-sheathed cable is
based on the type of insulation used on the copper
conductors.
‡ These are maximum allowable conductor
temperatures for 1, 2, or 3 conductors run in a
raceway or 2 or 3 conductors, run in a cable and
may be used in determining the ampacity of other
conductor types in Table 19, which are so run as
follows: From Table 19 determine the maximum
allowable conductor temperature for that particular
type; then from the above Table determine the
ampacity under the column of corresponding
temperature rating.
§ SeeTable 5C for the correction factors to be
applied to the values in Columns 2 to 7 where there
are more than 3 conductors in a run of raceway or
cable.
*** For 3-wire 120/240 and 120/208 V residential
services or subservices, the allowable ampacity for
sizes No. 6, No. 2 and No. 4/0 AWG shall be 60 A,
100 A, and 200 A respectively. In this case, the 5%
adjustment of Rule 8-106(1) cannot be applied.*
Note.
These ampacities are only applicable under special
circumstances where the use of insulated
conductors having this temperature rating are
acceptable.


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## ls electric (Sep 6, 2011)

icefalkon said:
 

> Harry is correct.
> 
> From the Canadian Handbook
> 
> ...


2009 code right? That note is changed in 2012 code.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

99cents said:


> Yeah, well maybe my old school inspector knows how to read the footnotes at the bottom of the table...


jesus your thick. That footnote only applies to the value with the matching star beside it. Look at the table again.. HINT: you cant use the 90° collom if your breaker is not rated for 90° which it wont be


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

True.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

ls electric said:


> 2009 code right? That note is changed in 2012 code.


Ah, there you go. It's what I had available. What's the new note say?


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## ls electric (Sep 6, 2011)

icefalkon said:


> Ah, there you go. It's what I had available. What's the new note say?


It gives the exception for #6 AL to 60 Amps on 90 degrees. And that is it. otherwise it is worded like the old code.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

ls electric said:


> It gives the exception for #6 AL to 60 Amps on 90 degrees. And that is it. otherwise it is worded like the old code.


LOL I thought there was going to be something monumental. So he's good to go with the 4/0.


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## ls electric (Sep 6, 2011)

Sorry #6 is the only exception, and that is only on the 90 degree column,not on the 75 degree one. There is no exception for the other two sizes.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

icefalkon said:


> LOL I thought there was going to be something monumental. So he's good to go with the 4/0.


 Someone post up table 4 already before I have a stroke.

The footnote exception ONLY applies to the values marked with the corresponding star. There are stars beside the values in the 90° column only!! 

Is your breaker marked 90° :no:

DO you see stars beside the value for 4/0 in the 60 or 75° columns?? NO, so that exception dosent apply.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

randas said:


> Someone post up table 4 already before I have a stroke.
> 
> The footnote exception ONLY applies to the values marked with the corresponding star. There are stars beside the values in the 90° column only!!
> 
> ...


Dude, why so excited/upset about this? I have no idea what the guys breaker is listed for. Here's a good question, why are us guys in the States the ones answering the guy? I went and found the Canadian Electrical Code Handbook online and downloaded it. LOL 

Obviously you cannot use the 90 degree column unless all parts of the system are rated for it. Perhaps Markmanning doesn't know that. What's with the...before you have a stroke thing? LOL 

There are less caffeinated brands that are just as good!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

randas said:


> jesus your thick. That footnote only applies to the value with the matching star beside it. Look at the table again.. HINT: you cant use the 90° collom if your breaker is not rated for 90° which it wont be


Thick??? My girlfriend says I'm thick. She kinda likes it  .


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Like a tuna can?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

More like a propane tank


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

icefalkon said:


> Dude, why so excited/upset about this? I have no idea what the guys breaker is listed for. Here's a good question, why are us guys in the States the ones answering the guy? I went and found the Canadian Electrical Code Handbook online and downloaded it. LOL
> 
> Obviously you cannot use the 90 degree column unless all parts of the system are rated for it. Perhaps Markmanning doesn't know that. What's with the...before you have a stroke thing? LOL
> 
> There are less caffeinated brands that are just as good!


I have a question, why is this posted in the NEC Forum? Shouldn't it be in the Canadian Forum?


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

backstay said:


> I have a question, why is this posted in the NEC Forum? Shouldn't it be in the Canadian Forum?


LOL yeah. I think the OP didn't know we had a Canadian Forum here. Thread should be moved, but I think it's a dead issue. The OP hasn't responded back at all.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

icefalkon said:


> LOL yeah. I think the OP didn't know we had a Canadian Forum here. Thread should be moved, but I think it's a dead issue. The OP hasn't responded back at all.



He is probably getting heart stents installed right now. Good luck to him and I hope he has a fast recovery. Canadian bacon- live hard, die young.


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