# 240 VAC bedroom circuit



## AMPED (Jan 12, 2010)

I have a customer that wants a 240 VAC electrical circuit installed in his bedroom for hand radio equipment. Is there any code exceptions that allow us to do this?


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Why not? You can have 240v air conditioner receps can't you?


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

For there to be an exception, there would have to be a code article that prohibits it in the first place


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## AMPED (Jan 12, 2010)

Just seems to me that allowing non AFCI protected circuits into a bedroom kind of defeats the purpose of requiring AFCI protected circuits


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

AMPED said:


> Just seems to me that allowing non AFCI protected circuits into a bedroom kind of defeats the purpose of requiring AFCI protected circuits


they make 2 pole AFCIs....


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

bkmichael65 said:


> For there to be an exception, there would have to be a code article that prohibits it in the first place


Very much agreed. The NEC is a permissive book. If there is something in it that it doesn't specifically prohibit then it is permitted.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

AMPED said:


> Just seems to me that allowing non AFCI protected circuits into a bedroom kind of defeats the purpose of requiring AFCI protected circuits


That may well be true but regarless you may install a 240 volt recptacle IF the load is at least 1441 VA. 



> *210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations.* The nominal
> voltage of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted
> by 210.6(A) through (E).
> 
> ...


If the ham radio gear is 1440 VA or less it cannot be supplied by 240 volts in a dwelling unit.


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## Speedskater (Oct 2, 2009)

Try:

*210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations.* The nominal
voltage of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted
by 210.6(A) through (E).

(C) 277 Volts to Ground. Circuits exceeding 120 volts,
nominal, between conductors and not exceeding 277 volts,
nominal, to ground shall be permitted to supply the following:

(6) Cord-and-plug-connected or permanently connected
utilization equipment


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Speedskater said:


> Try:
> 
> *210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations.* The nominal
> voltage of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted
> ...


That has nothing to do with it, this is a dwelling unit so 210.6(A) is the section that applies.


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## Speedskater (Oct 2, 2009)

But 210.6(A) only applies to:

(1) Luminaires
(2) Cord-and-plug-connected loads 1440 volt-amperes,
nominal, or less or less than 1⁄4 hp.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Speedskater said:


> But 210.6(A) only applies to:
> 
> (1) Luminaires
> (2) Cord-and-plug-connected loads 1440 volt-amperes,
> nominal, or less or less than 1⁄4 hp.


I think the HAM radio would fall under cord-and-plug connected loads.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

210.6(A) only applies to 120 volt circuits


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

bkmichael65 said:


> 210.6(A) only applies to 120 volt circuits


It says the voltage shall not exceed 120 volts, nominal, between conductors that supply the terminals. So a 240 volt circuit would be a violation.Would a reading of 124 volts to ground on 120 volt circuit be a violation as well?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

bkmichael65 said:


> 210.6(A) only applies to 120 volt circuits


210.6(A) tells us that in dwelling units the voltage cannot exceed 120 volts unless the equipment it is supply is more than 1440 va. 

So in a dwelling unit you cannot use 240 volts to supply a cord and plug connected small loads. 


A big load like an air conditioner yes, a small load like a radio no.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Elephante said:


> It says the voltage shall not exceed 120 volts, nominal, between conductors that supply the terminals. So a 240 volt circuit would be a violation.Would a reading of 124 volts to ground on 120 volt circuit be a violation as well?


The voltages used in the code are 'nominal' meaning that 124 is still fine.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The voltages used in the code are 'nominal' meaning that 124 is still fine.


Nominal = satisfactory gotcha:thumbsup:


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The voltages used in the code are 'nominal' meaning that 124 is still fine.


...does the code define 'nominal'?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

360max said:


> ...does the code define 'nominal'?


Yes ... 

*Voltage, Nominal.* A word meaning BBQ is right. :jester:






From article 100



> *Voltage, Nominal.* A nominal value assigned to a circuit or system for the purpose of conveniently designating its volt-age class (e.g., 120/240 volts, 480Y/277 volts, 600 volts). The actual voltage at which a circuit operates can vary from the nominal within a range that permits satisfactory opera-tion of equipment.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Elephante said:


> I think the HAM radio would fall under cord-and-plug connected loads.



If so, then your electric dryer and range would be illegal as well. :whistling2:


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

480sparky said:


> If so, then your electric dryer and range would be illegal as well. :whistling2:


Dryer has more than a 1/4 horse power and range more than 1440 va.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Elephante said:


> Dryer has more than a 1/4 horse power and range more than 1440 va.


So that's what allows it to be supplied with more than 120v nominal.

210.6(A) does not say you cannot have receptacles with a voltage more than 120v in a dwelling. It merely states that if the load is 1440va/¼hp or less, it can only be supplied with 120v.


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

So....I guess that means the general purpose 20 amp 240 volt outlets at the work benches in my basement are in violation. Never in a million years would I have thought that. Anyone know the reason for the minimum load wording?


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

480sparky said:


> So that's what allows it to be supplied with more than 120v nominal.
> 
> 210.6(A) does not say you cannot have receptacles with a voltage more than 120v in a dwelling. It merely states that if the load is 1440va/¼hp or less, it can only be supplied with 120v.


Never said you can't have receptacles with a voltage more than 120v in a dwelling. If the OP runs a dedicated 240volt circuit , plugs in let's say 1000VA Ham radio, and labels the panel Ham radio, does he fail? I think so unless I am missing something with the 210.6A wording.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

8V71 said:


> So....I guess that means the general purpose 20 amp 240 volt outlets at the work benches in my basement are in violation. Never in a million years would I have thought that.........


Not at all.



8V71 said:


> ....... Anyone know the reason for the minimum load wording?


I tried to find out in my old Handbooks. No rationale was given.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It seems like an odd rule. I just installed 2 240V receptacles last week and both got inspected yesterday but the customer didn't have the AC units yet. Could the inspector insist on seeing the equipment before passing the receptacles?

And once the inspection is passed and the permit is closed, how does the code prevent the customer from plugging something smaller in? It really can't.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HackWork said:


> It seems like an odd rule. I just installed 2 240V receptacles last week and both got inspected yesterday but the customer didn't have the AC units yet. Could the inspector insist on seeing the equipment before passing the receptacles?
> 
> And once the inspection is passed and the permit is closed, how does the code prevent the customer from plugging something smaller in? It really can't.



Well, we all know that plugging in a 100va load into a 240v receptacle will cause an instant fire. :laughing:


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

HackWork said:


> It seems like an odd rule. I just installed 2 240V receptacles last week and both got inspected yesterday but the customer didn't have the AC units yet. Could the inspector insist on seeing the equipment before passing the receptacles?
> 
> And once the inspection is passed and the permit is closed, how does the code prevent the customer from plugging something smaller in? It really can't.


I thought the code was only good up to the receptacle and anything manufactured by someone not an electrician isn't covered by code. 
I guess you can't. 
What that person does after is not your problem if you ran right gauge wire ,receptacle and labeled the panel correctly. I don't see how we can prevent every possible dangerous event.


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Not at all.


Ken, does that mean the code is ok with them? I'm missing the difference if they are ok.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

BBQ said:


> 210.6(A) tells us that in dwelling units the voltage cannot exceed 120 volts unless the equipment it is supply is more than 1440 va.
> 
> So in a dwelling unit you cannot use 240 volts to supply a cord and plug connected small loads.
> 
> ...


I should know this by my age. I never knew there was a minimum VA for 240 volt cord and plug loads. I guess it's better to learn it late than never:thumbsup:


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

8V71 said:


> So....I guess that means the general purpose 20 amp 240 volt outlets at the work benches in my basement are in violation. Never in a million years would I have thought that. Anyone know the reason for the minimum load wording?


No, because they all supply motors of 1/4 hp and more.


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

Elephante said:


> No, because they all supply motors of 1/4 hp and more.


They don't though. Do you mean they could? They are just general purpose outlets and have powered many different broken/fixed things over the years.

Funny, when I got into ham radio one of the outlets ran a big 240 volt RF power amp that was probably under the VA limit, just like the OP's customer may have a need to do. :001_huh:


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## cordell215 (Aug 16, 2011)

bottom line what does the name plate read..? then I can answer your question correctly


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

cordell215 said:


> bottom line what does the name plate read..? then I can answer your question correctly


The name plate on *what?* 

I don't ask that to be a smartass. It's just that there are situations in which an electrician installs receptacles for equipment that isn't purchased or confirmed yet. 

If an inspector is going by the letter of the code, does that mean he can't pass a 240V receptacle I install until the homeowner buys the AC unit and he confirms it's draw? And after he leaves, how does the code prevent the homeowner from buying a smaller unit? 

This seems like it would be better handled by the listing company than the electrical code. Make it so that no equipment could be 240V unless it draws 1,440w+.


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