# Non IC high hats in Insulation



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Hey guys ive always heard Manufactures recommendation is to keep insulation at least 3 inches away from the can but ive never actually done it. Ive always just used IC rated lights. Homeowner wants 4 inch HH but no where carries IC rated old work recessed lights so I was thinking of going this route and placing a barrier around the lights to keep insulation away. Any thoughts would be great. Thanks again...


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

2x10 to box around the light ??


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## jbrookers (Dec 7, 2008)

They make 4" line voltage recessed lights. Google it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Chances are local building code does not permit non IC cans in insulated ceilings.

That is how it is here


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jbrookers said:


> They make 4" line voltage recessed lights. Google it.


 
IC rated?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> IC rated?


Halo makes an H99ICT-- 4" can for use with insulation. 

I bet you are thinking retros.....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> .........I bet you are thinking retros.....


 
Methinks you is correct.

I thought Progess made an IC-rated 4" remodel. Their catalog listed one, but the spec sheet said it wasn't.

That disappointed me more than Windows 95.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I thought Progess made an IC-rated 4" remodel. Their catalog listed one, but the spec sheet said it wasn't.


I believe someone does. Who it is I don't remember


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I believe someone does. Who it is I don't remember


Remember what?





























Sucks getting old, doesn't it? 
:laughing:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Halo defineatly has them. I put them often.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Halo makes an H99ICT-- 4" can for use with insulation.
> 
> I bet you are thinking retros.....


That is what the OP was looking for.. remodeling IC cans


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't understand how you can build something around a remodel non IC can. Push the insulation away yes, but build a barrier? I have used the Halo 4" IC new work cans alot. I like em.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

jbrookers said:


> They make 4" line voltage recessed lights. Google it.


:001_huh: ?

NSS

The op is asking about what to do for a 4 inch recessed old work because they don't make an ic rated 4 inch old work

What I have done is used a new work and screwed it in from above,your other choice would be to push the insulation back.

I read somewhere that non ic rated cans were no longer allowed in new construction. Not in our code but it was added to the ICC according to the article I read.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Halo does make both remodel and new construction Im looking at them right now. I use them alot in kitchens.
I have seen boxes built around cans which may of been because they were non ic 6"?Who knows but my ahj always looks to see if you installed ic rated.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

4" IC's are like 56 cents more. Not even a consideration not to get IC's.
I've never seen an IC 4" remodel though.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> That is what the OP was looking for.. remodeling IC cans


That is correct. The poster above Ken never mentioned IC remold cn so I wanted to clarify.

Pegasus makes a 4" can remodel style that is airtight , bot ic rated for $20.00 or so with shipping. That means it meets the state of Washington's energy code but you must move the insulation within 3" of the can.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is correct. The poster above Ken never mentioned IC remold cn so I wanted to clarify.
> 
> Pegasus makes a 4" can remodel style that is airtight , bot ic rated for $20.00 or so with shipping. That means it meets the state of Washington's energy code but you must move the insulation within 3" of the can.


The can in the pic is considered air tight? :blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> The can in the pic is considered air tight? :blink:


And why wouldn't it be?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> The can in the pic is considered air tight? :blink:


Check out the site I posted and click on the top image. It will give you the specs. There must be some gasket material inside. ???


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Methinks you is correct.
> 
> I thought Progess made an IC-rated 4" remodel. Their catalog listed one, but the spec sheet said it wasn't.
> 
> That disappointed me more than Windows 95.



I installed a few a month or so ago- Forget the make-

Listed Ic If a certain wattage bulb was used- 40? otherwise non IC.

I'll call the guy- he bought them.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> And why wouldn't it be?


The clips would be a good place to start..



*Ceiling Insulation*: because this housing is not IC-rated ceiling insulation must be kept at least 3 inches away from all outside surfaces of the housing 
*Air Tight Construction*: complies with the strict Washington State Energy Code (WSEC) that restricts airflow through recessed lighting housings


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

the clips in air tight recess remodel cans do have gaskets.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is correct. The poster above Ken never mentioned IC remold cn so I wanted to clarify.
> 
> Pegasus makes a 4" can remodel style that is airtight , bot ic rated for $20.00 or so with shipping. That means it meets the state of Washington's energy code but you must move the insulation within 3" of the can.


I am confused

If it is ic rated why do you have to move the insulation?


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

thanks guys i was unable to find a 4 in remodel rated for direct contact anywhere. ive decided to make barriers out of chicken wire to put around the fixtures through the 4 in hole. i would pay whatever it cost to buy some ic rated just dont think they exist. any thoughts?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> I am confused
> 
> If it is ic rated why do you have to move the insulation?


It is not IC rated.. they are only saying it's airtight.. as in no heat loss due to open apertures


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Power21 said:


> thanks guys i was unable to find a 4 in remodel rated for direct contact anywhere. ive decided to make barriers out of chicken wire to put around the fixtures through the 4 in hole. i would pay whatever it cost to buy some ic rated just dont think they exist. any thoughts?


 
No attic access ? Maybe talk customer into the 5" cans. I have run into this problem a bunch of times and couldn't find the 4" IC rated remodel cans anywhere. I used the New work 4" IC cans but I had attic access.

The 5" cans have a decent selection of trims also


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Found this site, selection is pretty limited and they seem to just lower the max wattage to 20W just to get the IC rating

http://twicebright.com/120v/index.asp


http://twicebright.com/pdfs/2010_web.pdf


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

i may tell HO i need to cut a hole big enough toclimb in the attic so i can use new work ic rated. i'm not to comfortable with pushing insulation away fron a non- ic fixture.


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

you the man rich thanks alot


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> It is not IC rated.. they are only saying it's airtight.. as in no heat loss due to open apertures


Yea I saw that after I clicked on the link. Pegassus has really nice UC lights .

Some of these answers this guy got were pretty entertaining I must say.:laughing:


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## WIREDOG (May 27, 2007)

The barrier sounds like a good idea if ic cans are not available but be aware that the barrier you create may also trap heat around the can wich defeats the purpose


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

WIREDOG said:


> The barrier sounds like a good idea if ic cans are not available but be aware that the barrier you create may also trap heat around the can wich defeats the purpose


It will certainly trap heat, however the 3" space should be enough to allow the can to function properly. 

The reason for the barrier, around here, was to ensure that the insulators didn't enclose the cans in insulation. 

This particular job is a remodel job and has no access above. I would just move the insulation away and use the airtite cans. It will be a lot cheaper then those low voltage cans with 20 watt max that will allow insulation.


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Went with the new work Halo H99ICT 4 inch lights today. I cut a hole big enough to climb up in attic area. Not the best situation but it worked and it was a sound installation and not some BS chicken wire barrier to keep insulation away so it was worth it. FYI 4 inch remodel IC rated lights (At least non-super expensive low wattage ones) hang out with Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny on weekends I think. Non existant if you ask me. News to me i wont forget that. Thanks everybody for the help, great site.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

WIREDOG said:


> The barrier sounds like a good idea if ic cans are not available but be aware that the barrier you create may also trap heat around the can wich defeats the purpose


When Wiredog speaks, the worlds stands up and takes notice.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> When Wiredog speaks, the worlds stands up and takes notice.


 
He might hump your leg, given the chance :laughing:


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