# The one coming up..



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Nice. Looks like a blast 

I'm working on a remodel of a car dealership here in town... really old building. The service is original, and circa 1939. The panel covers are heavier than s**t and have been painted over so many times it was almost a vacuum seal inside. The bus and fuse pull-outs looked immaculate.

They're not upgrading it though  Half the circuits are abandoned anyway, basically the only things being fed from it are subpanels and air handlers. It'd be a perfect candidate for a nice new MDP.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Are you going to have an issue with that cast drain pipe, or will the rehab subcode cover it?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The cast iron pipe isn't the problem IMO, it's the 2" PVC seen from the sump pump that fails to give me the proper clearance and working space. I'm going to check with the AHJ before doing any work (but not before i get a deposit for the job :8)


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Ron.. good luck with that job..looks like $$$$$$...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

you know what I don't like about this service is having to come into the back of the panel instead of over the top. it can sort of be a pita getting everything all lined up. guess thats why they call it work.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> you know what I don't like about this service is having to come into the back of the panel instead of over the top. it can sort of be a pita getting everything all lined up. guess thats why they call it work.


Why can't you just use (2) SEU tails sleeved through the brick.. :blink:

You have the room since the floor beams are running in the right direction..


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> Why can't you just use (2) SEU tails sleeved through the brick.. :blink:
> 
> You have the room since the floor beams are running in the right direction..


Because what about the two big gaping holes in the brick from the last upgrade? 

PVC and Al conductors all the way on this one. :thumbsup:

2 - 20 circuit 100 amp mb panels

ground, bond to code.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Because what about the two big gaping holes in the brick from the last upgrade?
> 
> PVC and Al conductors all the way on this one. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Stray foam.. after it dries, cover it with a piece of AL sheeting..

You can get spray paint to match the brick color..


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> Stray foam.. after it dries, cover it with a piece of AL sheeting..
> 
> You can get spray paint to match the brick color..


:laughing:



I appreciate your help but are you serious about the spray paint? 


LMAO :thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sometimes spray painting the AL blends in pretty good..

I can't tell from my screen what it looks like or how big you are talking about..

In the past I have used a two gang AL blank cover for that kind of repair..

Services get moved and you got to find a simple fix for a bad situation..:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've done the same thing, sheet metal painted to match, other options are do nothing and let the customer handle it (no money to be made there ) or patch the brick yourself.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

erics37 said:


> Nice. Looks like a blast
> 
> I'm working on a remodel of a car dealership here in town... really old building. The service is original, and circa 1939. The panel covers are heavier than s**t and have been painted over so many times it was almost a vacuum seal inside. The bus and fuse pull-outs looked immaculate.
> 
> They're not upgrading it though  Half the circuits are abandoned anyway, basically the only things being fed from it are subpanels and air handlers. It'd be a perfect candidate for a nice new MDP.


In some way, I like the fact that the stuff from the 30's is robust enough to serve a modern load. Many times in the past I have left a fuse panel in service because there was no real reason it needed to be removed. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.:thumbsup:


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> Because what about the two big gaping holes in the brick from the last upgrade?
> 
> PVC and Al conductors all the way on this one. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Schedule 80 pvc? It looks like you will need it with the driveway right there. The height of the meter looks ok. Does the power company have a height requirement when the service is on the driveway side? It has been a while since I did work up your way and I was wondering if towns like Perth Amboy still have local codes on services having to be in conduit?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

cabletie said:


> Schedule 80 pvc? It looks like you will need it with the driveway right there. The height of the meter looks ok. Does the power company have a height requirement when the service is on the driveway side? It has been a while since I did work up your way and I was wondering if towns like Perth Amboy still have local codes on services having to be in conduit?


The power company does have height requirements for metering equipment where it is subject to physical damage. This service is in PSEG country. I'll have to look it up for certain but I believe it is 6'-6" to the top of the meter pan, and JCPL is 6' to the middle of the meter. Schedule 80 is required in this situation. We'll be going to the other side of the house to drive the ground rods.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Yes, between 5'6" and 6'6" is what comes to mind as a rule of thumb but I would have to check to be sure. I am in jcp&l territory and they change the rules quite a bit although that one probably doesn’t change. I got my start up around your way and remember local codes only allowing conduit in some towns. New Brunswick and South Amboy for sure. I thought some even requiring metallic conduit but I know I would be wrong. To play devils advocate if you are using schedule 80 PVC what is the schedule of the "lb". An inspector failed an old co-worker of mine in Green Brook for a similar reason and he had to do the lower halve under the meter in RGS. so I guess in a way you could say it has to be metalic. Ridged aluminum conduit and copper conductors and it could be there for another 100 years:thumbup:, but they will probably find someone cheaper.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I just had to see if they made a schedule 80 lb and came across this at the carlon web site under the Q/A section.

We are a local inspection agency. As you know the use of schedule 40-pvc has been greatly limited in the 2002 NEC. There is a story going around that schedule 80 fittings are not available. We will be enforcing the 2002 NEC Code if these fitting are not available that will mean that sales of schedule 40-and 80-pvc just took a turn for the worst. If these fittings are not available why is that true schedule 80-nonmetallic conduit is not a new product? What is the true story?​Carlon does not manufacture separate fittings for Schedule 40 and separate fittings for Schedule 80 (except for the elbows which are formed from Sch. 40 and Sch. 80 conduit and fall under the UL category of conduit, not fittings) since the fittings have been UL approved to be used with both Schedule 40 and Schedule 80.
Schedule 40 PVC has not necessarily been severely limited as Schedule 80 is only required in areas subject to physical damage, which is usually a limited height coming out of the ground along the exterior wall of a building (Articles 300.5 (4) and 352.12(C)), for example, or in a parking garage or up along a pole. Subject to physical damage areas are where a car or lawnmower or something will impact the conduit. The uses not permitted for RNC for areas subject to physical damage unless identified for such use has been around for quite awhile and Schedule 80 has always been permitted for areas subject to physical damage. This is nothing new.
PVC conduit and fittings have been listed since the 1960's. Schedule 80 has a thicker wall than Schedule 40. They both have the same OD but different ID's and thus a different wirefill. The fittings are either over or under the conduit anyways, so even if they are impacted, the conduit is still there to provide the impact protection.

The last sentance is true for couplings and conectors but I would not think so for an LB. what are other peoples thoughts? Can anyone find a Schedule 80 LB? ​


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

We did the service today. I'm just labeling the circuits now. So what do you think?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> We did the service today. I'm just labeling the circuits now. So what do you think?


No intersystem bonding termination?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> No intersystem bonding termination?


Good eyes! 


I've actually been doing quite a few services/ panel changes lately and I was out of them. I have to go back on Monday to do a few more things in the basement so I'll install it then. Just beat the rain today too.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Job came out really nice.. :thumbsup:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

That's sump pump piping ? Looks more like the sewer vent line. I'd hate to see the size of that pump if that's for a sump.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> That's sump pump piping ? Looks more like the sewer vent line. I'd hate to see the size of that pump if that's for a sump.


Low water table here. My uncle said he hardly needed a hammer to get the ground rods in. Basement had water all over the place but I don't think the pump was working before I disconnected the power. Port Reading, NJ.


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Clean and neat, nice! :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Bonding bridge.


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## Jsmit319 (Sep 23, 2010)

What did you do for grounding/bonding? I'm not seeing anything obvious....:nerd:


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## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

It turned out pretty nice.

What size is that riser? It looks small. Our local requires 2" IMC/RMC on all service changes and new installs. Overkill on a 125A service.
I'm not a big fan of the buried condulet, the mc work, or the flush panel covers. But I understand the cost and time restrictions with overhead service changes. It's interested seeing the different techniques and materials used in different regions. I understand that style of service is standard in the eastern region. I've yet to see that style of service entrance. Or SE cable.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Jsmit319 said:


> What did you do for grounding/bonding? I'm not seeing anything obvious....:nerd:


Well, the riser is 150 amps. We used 2/0 aluminum this time and SE cable sleeved through the schedule 80 PVC for physical protection of the cable. 250.66 requires a #6 stranded and insulated copper conductor to the water main. From there we bond the supply side to the owner side and jump out to the two ground rods on the other side of the house to a lawn where they are more easily driven into the ground.


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