# Torque for receptacles, switches



## kmlnk (Nov 17, 2019)

I am now torquing all circuit breakers, panel terminals, switches, and receptacles per 2017 NEC requirements. Torque for Leviton residential devices is 12 -14 inch pounds, commercial devices 20 inch pounds. I believe Hubble is 9-12 inch lbs for residential devices. Of course follow what is printed on the device, or consult the manufacturer.
I use a torque screwdriver with a range of 5 to 60 inch lbs. which cost about $70. I always return the dial to zero after a torquing session. I find it is much faster to use the torque tool verses a screwdriver and going 1/4 turn past "snug" which is not accurate.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

kmlnk said:


> Of course follow what is printed on the device, or consult the manufacturer.



Thanks, but I'll stick with my 30 years of experience.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

kmlnk said:


> I am now torquing all circuit breakers, panel terminals, switches, and receptacles per 2017 NEC requirements. Torque for Leviton residential devices is 12 -14 inch pounds, commercial devices 20 inch pounds. I believe Hubble is 9-12 inch lbs for residential devices. Of course follow what is printed on the device, or consult the manufacturer.
> I use a torque screwdriver with a range of 5 to 60 inch lbs. which cost about $70. I always return the dial to zero after a torquing session. I find it is much faster to use the torque tool verses a screwdriver and going 1/4 turn past "snug" which is not accurate.


How long do you think you will keep this nonsense up for?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

70.00 SEEMS Cheap for a quality torque screwdriver
And they do wear out
and they should be calibrated yearly.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Screw guns will have that feature available before long via limiting the current.

To certify the tension in post-tension cabling in highrise construction we monitor an amp meter on the pulling device.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CTshockhazard said:


> Thanks, but I'll stick with my 30 years of experience.


How many houses have burned down because you didn't tighten down a screw terminal on a device enough or too much?

You probably should have used the backstabs, that's *definitely* safer than tightening screw terminals without a torque driver.

The NEC, everyone. Blindly follow along, it will keep you warm and safe.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

HackWork said:


> How many houses have burned down because you didn't tighten down a screw terminal on a device enough or too much?



Probably none, I'm only careless when I know I'm leaving in the Arc-Faults after inspection. :biggrin:


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

I called P&S to consult with them about torque on device screws, but they just laughed and hung up.:sad:


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

brian john said:


> 70.00 SEEMS Cheap for a quality torque screwdriver
> And they do wear out
> and they should be calibrated yearly.


70 is not cheap for a screwdriver nor is a using one necessary for devices


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I think the best thing would be devices with Bellville washers on all the device screws. 










These only flatten out when you reach the correct torque. Of course the washers would have to be serialized, tested, calibrated, and traceable back to NIST. I don't think a switch or receptacle would have to be more than maybe $20 or $25 which is a small price to pay for safety.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Any body with experience with circuit breakers, Aluminum wire, and torque values? The breaker is rated for Aluminum wire with a torque value. However when using that value, it squishes the wire to the point of almost breaking free. New screwdriver. Called the manufacturer and he said I had the correct inch pounds.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

I buy all my switches and receptacles pre-wired. They come with 100 meter whips that you cadweld to the breaker.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I'll torque a $20k switch gear and a $75k transformer

I refuse to torque a 20 amp circuit breaker. If you can't properly tighten a small breaker, receptacle or switch......

I recommend plumbing as a new career..... you need only to know two things
1)**** rolls down hill
2)dont eat you finger nails on the way home from work


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Tonedeaf said:


> I'll torque a $20k switch gear and a $75k transformer
> 
> I refuse to torque a 20 amp circuit breaker. If you can't properly tighten a small breaker, receptacle or switch......
> 
> ...


Are you nuts? I made my first million when I invented the torque basin wrench.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

At the last in-service training class we were told how important it was to torque everything. Instructor even passed around a torque screwdriver and a ground bus bar and everyone in class had a chance to use it. The proper torque was set by the instructor and we were also given #12 copper pigtails.

After everyone was completed I asked the instructor to remove the pigtails because I has a suspicion that the torque was to much simply because of job experience.

Every single #12 copper wire was flatten inside the lug almost to the point of breaking. 

I'll past on the torque screwdriver for now.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I also think there is nothing like experience. I only brought up torquing Aluminum wire on a breaker because it is now in the 2017 NEC and the torque screwdriver is a new tool to use. It probably will sit in the truck for now.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Just tighten it.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Signal1 said:


> Just tighten it.


That's racist against the mechanically inept :vs_mad:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I back stab and then torque it down till the screw just begins to strip.
Haven't burned anything down yet.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Tonedeaf said:


> I'll torque a $20k switch gear and a $75k transformer
> 
> I refuse to torque a 20 amp circuit breaker. If you can't properly tighten a small breaker, receptacle or switch......
> 
> ...



You forgot #3 - Never eat the last bite of a sandwich


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

A Little Short said:


> You forgot #3 - Never eat the last bite of a sandwich


I eat out of the plastic baggie. 
Potato chips are fun. 
Forgetting a spoon when I have pudding is always a problem.


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## kmlnk (Nov 17, 2019)

Get your local inspector to put it in writing that you do not need to follow the NEC and torque circuit breakers, switches, and receptacles. Then I will listen to you. (but only in your jurisdiction.)
Also, overtightening distorts the threads and can cause loose and arcing connections.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Bro... You take a long time to reply to a thread you started... last year...


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Switched said:


> Bro... You take a long time to reply to a thread you started... last year...


It's because he was tied up torquing device screws on a large house.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

mofos be cray said:


> It's because he was tied up torquing device screws on a large house.


Look, this isn’t anything to joke about. Without proper torquing we will soon look like this..









Cletis Electric


Check out this GoDaddy hosted webpage! http://cletiselectric.com.




cletiselectric.com


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Switched said:


> Look, this isn’t anything to joke about. Without proper torquing we will soon look like this..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But I backstab all my aluminum conductors. That's because I care about children on fire.


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

CoolWill said:


> I buy all my switches and receptacles pre-wired. They come with 100 meter whips that you cadweld to the breaker.


Heh heh good one!


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

mofos be cray said:


> But I backstab all my aluminum conductors. That's because I care about children on fire.


I only backstab on #12 and above, because I consider custom receptacle modifications the core of my business model.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Switched said:


> Bro... You take a long time to reply to a thread you started... last year...


He has exactly two posts. On starting this thread a year ago and one replying to it. Seems odd. This is the one thing he truly cares about.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MotoGP1199 said:


> He has exactly two posts. On starting this thread a year ago and one replying to it. Seems odd. This is the one thing he truly cares about.


It was probably him that introduced it to the CMP...


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Switched said:


> I only backstab on #12 and above, because I consider custom receptacle modifications the core of my business model.


A sign of seasoned pro. That's why everybody runs down backstabbing, they're not pro enough to know that the existing opening are only to landmark the place where modifications can be made.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

mofos be cray said:


> A sign of seasoned pro. That's why everybody runs down backstabbing, they're not pro enough to know that the existing opening are only to landmark the place where modifications can be made.


Wise beyond your years you are.


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Switched said:


> Wise beyond your years you are.


Thanks, to paraphrase Isaac Newton: if I have seen far it is only because I have stood on the shoulders of the giant Peter D.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

mofos be cray said:


> Thanks, to paraphrase Isaac Newton: if I have seen far it is only because I have stood on the shoulders of the giant Peter D.


Is that so?


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Wirenuting said:


> I
> Forgetting a spoon when I have pudding is always a problem.


LOL funny you say that, I had to eat chicken noodle soup with a 1/2 open end wrench last week


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

An open end wrench? 
Dam I wish I had thought of that, better then using needle nose pliers..


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

I used a blue wire nut- not the big one- the last time i forgot my spoon.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Oops ! I thought the title was "Touque for Receptacles and Switches"

Carry on ..... 😜


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## Yankee77 (Oct 5, 2020)

Is it wrong that I backstab all devices, and than remove all the screws and throw them in a scrapyard box?


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

Removing the screws seems to be a waste of your time. If you work your time out I do not believe the scrap value will pay for the time wasted.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

What do you do when torqueing the receptacles to the required amount strips the threads on the screws? Use a different brand of receptacles? I switched to spec grade receptacles because of the problem.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

CTshockhazard said:


> Thanks, but I'll stick with my 30 years of experience.


Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!   

and sorry... I failed to notice for the 20th time that this was an old thread.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

emtnut said:


> That's racist against the mechanically inept :vs_mad:


*Everybody* is racist these days... just turn on CNN... they will educate you with the facts.


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## PokeySmokey (Nov 14, 2017)

kb1jb1 said:


> What do you do when torqueing the receptacles to the required amount strips the threads on the screws? Use a different brand of receptacles? I switched to spec grade receptacles because of the problem.


About 25 years ago I switched to spec grade receptacles because of too many standard grade receptacle failures. I also sent some of the failed receptacles to the certification labs for their inspection and reference.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

PokeySmokey said:


> About 25 years ago I switched to spec grade receptacles because of too many standard grade receptacle failures. I also sent some of the failed receptacles to the certification labs for their inspection and reference.


Same here... plus my hands were about worn out trying to deal with binding screw terminals... clamp type terminals are much better and faster.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Quickservice said:


> Same here... plus my hands were about worn out trying to deal with binding screw terminals... clamp type terminals are much better and faster.


The price is about triple for commercial grade, but still it's probably less than $100 to upgrade for most houses. You're not just getting the clamp terminals, the overall quality of the receptacle is better. I am not sure that will translate to an hour of time saved or one fewer troubleshoots per house. Still, that's a very small bump in price to do things a little better.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

kb1jb1 said:


> What do you do when torqueing the receptacles to the required amount strips the threads on the screws? Use a different brand of receptacles? I switched to spec grade receptacles because of the problem.


I am curious, what brand were stripping for you, and were you using a manufacturer specified torque, or the default the NEC specs to use when the manufacturer doesn't provide a torque spec in the instructions? 

Maybe manufacturers will phase out their cheap lines, they probably hate selling $0.50 receptacles knowing a 1/2" store bought box offset goes for more than that.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

By the way, if you buy Leviton, the resi grade is the 12650, the commercial is the BR15. They are both made in USA right now. They weren't four years ago, I think they were China for the cheapo and Mexico for the upgrade. We'll see where they are made in another year or two.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

splatz said:


> The price is about triple for commercial grade, but still it's probably less than $100 to upgrade for most houses. You're not just getting the clamp terminals, the overall quality of the receptacle is better. I am not sure that will translate to an hour of time saved or one fewer troubleshoots per house. Still, that's a very small bump in price to do things a little better.


Have you price checked this recently? The last time I bought TR commercial grade receptacles they were expensive compared to non TR.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

I have heard and read with amused interest as to the application of the correct torque - and the measurement of same - to screw terminals. The terms "in-lbs' and "Nm" get tossed around like people knew what they were or if they gave a rat's a**. I have my own scale that has served me well for 30+ years - grunts. The bigger the screw head the more "grunts" of force to apply. My forearm usually tells me when the screw is set.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

ValeoBill said:


> I have heard and read with amused interest as to the application of the correct torque - and the measurement of same - to screw terminals. The terms "in-lbs' and "Nm" get tossed around like people knew what they were or if they gave a rat's a**. I have my own scale that has served me well for 30+ years - grunts. The bigger the screw head the more "grunts" of force to apply. My forearm usually tells me when the screw is set.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

kmlnk said:


> I am now torquing all circuit breakers, panel terminals, switches, and receptacles per 2017 NEC requirements. Torque for Leviton residential devices is 12 -14 inch pounds, commercial devices 20 inch pounds. I believe Hubble is 9-12 inch lbs for residential devices. Of course follow what is printed on the device, or consult the manufacturer.
> I use a torque screwdriver with a range of 5 to 60 inch lbs. which cost about $70. I always return the dial to zero after a torquing session. I find it is much faster to use the torque tool verses a screwdriver and going 1/4 turn past "snug" which is not accurate.


Good to hear!!! Not to be a Debbie Downer but:
Be sure to keep your calibration records for it. The lawyer will ask for them after a fire. Most need calibrated at least once a year.

Also, you’ll need at least two sets of screwdrivers so you will still have one to use while the other one has been sent off for calibration.

Or, you can keep a new, unused one nearby and throw away the old one after it’s calibration period expires. It may be cheaper than paying for shipping & calibration costs.

Also, make sure you have enough for each of your employees. Or just have one and share.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

bill39 said:


> Good to hear!!! Not to be a Debbie Downer but:
> Be sure to keep your calibration records for it. The lawyer will ask for them after a fire. Most need calibrated at least once a year.
> 
> Also, you’ll need at least two sets of screwdrivers so you will still have one to use while the other one has been sent off for calibration.
> ...


If you have a decent sized shop, you may want to look into a torque wrench test gauge to have at the shop for guys to test their wrenches against. If it’s in calibration, and guys actually use it, it would go a long way as to a defense.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I wear this toque for receptacles.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

99cents said:


> I wear this toque for receptacles.
> View attachment 153639


Plaid is beautiful.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Plaid moose matter.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

This is really brilliant. Now we have torque residential to NASA specs.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I thought it is not plaid unless it has green in it. ???


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

Plaid...a Scotsman's favourite colour...red or green. When I look at the picture, I can almost hear "The Lumberjack Song" in the background...


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

joe-nwt said:


> Plaid moose matter.


#allmoosematter


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

HackWork said:


> How many houses have burned down because you didn't tighten down a screw terminal on a device enough or too much?
> 
> You probably should have used the backstabs, that's *definitely* safer than tightening screw terminals without a torque driver.
> 
> The NEC, everyone. Blindly follow along, it will keep you warm and safe.


As a Master Electrician and a Master Electrical Inspector my job and yours is to do just that !! The code is the code and it’s not open for anyone’s interpretation.
Do you want to not follow the code and be liable for a fire or shock or arc that hurts or kills someone ?!?! If everyone who considers themselves a Master Electrician does their job to code and to at least the acceptable industry standards if not above like all real electricians then we’d seldom have any problems.
As an Inspector that does 75+ inspections a week I check everyone’s torquing since we implemented the 2017 code May 1st 2020 which was almost a year ago and the grace period and electricians playing dumb phase is over !!!
The codes are required for a reason and if you don’t understand why that is and why the NEC AND ICC AND IRC AND NFPA AND A PLETHORA OF OTHER AGENCIES AND GOVERNING BODIES REQUIRE US TO IMPLEMENT AND ENFORCE THEM, then maybe you should find another trade ?!
Do you want to get that phone call in the middle of the night that a job you wired burned down because you didn’t believe the required electrical code should be implemented properly with work you did and a little kid was burned and or killed ?!?!?!
I know that I don’t , as well as a lot of other electricians and inspectors like myself don’t want too !!!!!!
They make the rules and our job is to follow and enforce them , period !!! They feel that 818 pages of articles are required, if you’re following them blindly and feeling warm and safe and don’t agree with the codes , again find another trade !!!
I have personally seen a building catch fire in a matter of minutes specifically because some hack electricians didn’t properly tighten the lugs in a 600 amp main disconnect and it created an arc in an improperly bonded and grounded 12 gang meter bank . And the tenth meter turned cherry red and caught on fire and began to melt and spew out flames in literally 30 seconds from when the electricians turned it on, they turned it on as I was walking in the door before I had a chance to inspect it and approve the reconnection !!!
When they saw the flames and smoke they ran out of the mechanical room like the incompetent cowardly hacks that they were, i in point of fact took off my fire resistant Klein jacket and put out the flames before the entire building was engulfed in flames !!
And because they had also not done the exit/emergency lights or smoke detectors and fire alarm system correctly I had to evacuate the tenants until the fire department arrived !!!!
So things being done to code and those codes being enforced by Electrical Inspectors are something I believe in with every fiber of my being !!!! 
If not for my quick thinking and disregard for my own safety 15 families could have perished on that cold winter night with just a simple disconnect reconnect being done to replace a 600 amp single phase main disconnect !!!! And it was specifically because again, the main double barrel lugs were not tightened with a torque socket !!!! They were tightened with a standard t-handle Allen wrench and left finger loose as were the grounds and the neutrals 
It could have been the worst night of my life, I could have been hurt or worse or one of the 15 elderly people who lived in that building could have been hurt or worse !!!
So 3 months later every time I inspect a service or meter or panel or switch gear or Pv inverter or whole house transfer switch you can count on the fact that I’ll ensure that every connection is tightened properly and to code !!!!! So don’t knock the NEC code requirements because someone not following them came within minutes of causing a tragedy that I would have never ever recovered from or perhaps survived ?!
The codes are required for a reason so follow them, because all it takes is for someone to rush and try and save a few minutes and a few dollars for an unbelievable and unspeakable tragedy to occur !!!! The electricians responsible will never ever do electrical work again, for the violations themselves with regards to the torquing and fire and emergency systems and for reconnecting without my inspection sticker and my release to the utility company, I had their licenses revoked and they will never be able to get another one or liability insurance either !!!
This is a very very recent and true story and anyone who reads it should put themselves in my position and think about what you would have done ?!?! And how much it would change your work style as a Master Electrician and as a Master Electrical Inspector like myself with regards to doing things to code and enforcement of that code as required !!! I agree that some codes are a stretch and redundant and some make little to no sense !!! 
But the NEC is our rule book and it’s our job to follow it and enforce it whether we agree with it or not.
My lengthy story shows how a small deviation from the code whether it be lack of knowledge or lack of proper tools or experience or laziness or cheapness can have devastating consequences !!!!
Thank you very much to all the electricians and inspectors who feel like I do and the ones that don’t and think I’m an a**** for my post, ask yourself how you would feel if your lack of proper attention and interest and code requirements killed a dozen people or even one person or just one burned child !!!! How would you be able to live with yourself knowing an extra 10 minutes of your life could prevent it !!!!!!


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Nyjoe66 said:


> As an Inspector that does 75+ inspections a week I check everyone’s torquing since we implemented the 2017 code May 1st 2020 which was almost a year ago and the grace period and electricians playing dumb phase is over !!!


Well it's a shame but you'll get no response from Dr. Hackworth. 

Anyway, how are you checking torquing?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

splatz said:


> Well it's a shame but you'll get no response from Dr. Hackworth.
> 
> Anyway, how are you checking torquing?


After reading that rant/wall of text, I was wondering the exact same thing. If he’s coming behind with a torque wrench of his own and tightening it further, the connection will be over tightened.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

splatz said:


> Well it's a shame but you'll get no response from Dr. Hackworth.
> 
> Anyway, how are you checking torquing?


I think Hack was doing another one of his troll posts anyway. I have lost count of how many failed backstabs I have encountered... many, many, many more that burned up binding screw terminals. Plus, I would argue that most of the failed binding screw terminals were due to a HO replacing a receptacle... hence would never be inspected.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

460 Delta said:


> After reading that rant/wall of text, I was wondering the exact same thing. If he’s coming behind with a torque wrench of his own and tightening it further, the connection will be over tightened.


Amen!!!!


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Nyjoe66 said:


> As a Master Electrician and a Master Electrical Inspector my job and yours is to do just that !! The code is the code and it’s not open for anyone’s interpretation.
> Do you want to not follow the code and be liable for a fire or shock or arc that hurts or kills someone ?!?! If everyone who considers themselves a Master Electrician does their job to code and to at least the acceptable industry standards if not above like all real electricians then we’d seldom have any problems.
> As an Inspector that does 75+ inspections a week I check everyone’s torquing since we implemented the 2017 code May 1st 2020 which was almost a year ago and the grace period and electricians playing dumb phase is over !!!
> The codes are required for a reason and if you don’t understand why that is and why the NEC AND ICC AND IRC AND NFPA AND A PLETHORA OF OTHER AGENCIES AND GOVERNING BODIES REQUIRE US TO IMPLEMENT AND ENFORCE THEM, then maybe you should find another trade ?!
> ...


I kind of agree with much of what you said about following the established codes and standards. Not following them or ignoring them opens up to lawsuits. I went back to contracting after two years as an inspector because I found some people not willing to change when the new codes come along. Many electrician were conscientious but I still had electricians asking about AFCIs 5 years after the code adoption. Some still didn't use ICAT cans in the ceiling. I am not even going to mention the stuff I saw with swimming pools. If an inspector starts flagging too many things then the contractor moves on to another agency. Now I put blinders on and only worry about my work.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

460 Delta said:


> After reading that rant/wall of text, I was wondering the exact same thing. If he’s coming behind with a torque wrench of his own and tightening it further, the connection will be over tightened.


How can you be over tightening when a torque wrench (the good ones), click at the desired torque? 
The real real question is, how do you check for an over torque? You would have to use the old needle style I guess?


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Nyjoe66 said:


> As a Master Electrician and a Master Electrical Inspector my job and yours is to do just that !! The code is the code and it’s not open for anyone’s interpretation.


Do you ever use your discretion on an inspection?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

wcord said:


> How can you be over tightening when a torque wrench (the good ones), click at the desired torque?
> The real real question is, how do you check for an over torque? You would have to use the old needle style I guess?


In my experience the torque value is nearly impossible to test after the fact. Coming behind to hit it with a torque wrench later may show it’s loose from the wire taking a set. It may also show it’s over tightened from having to overcome the starting friction from the face of the screw head and thread friction.
Torque is really an indirect way to indicate the clamping force of a bolted joint.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Nyjoe66 said:


> As a Master Electrician and a Master Electrical Inspector my job and yours is to do just that !! The code is the code and it’s not open for anyone’s interpretation.
> Do you want to not follow the code and be liable for a fire or shock or arc that hurts or kills someone ?!?! If everyone who considers themselves a Master Electrician does their job to code and to at least the acceptable industry standards if not above like all real electricians then we’d seldom have any problems.
> As an Inspector that does 75+ inspections a week I check everyone’s torquing since we implemented the 2017 code May 1st 2020 which was almost a year ago and the grace period and electricians playing dumb phase is over !!!
> The codes are required for a reason and if you don’t understand why that is and why the NEC AND ICC AND IRC AND NFPA AND A PLETHORA OF OTHER AGENCIES AND GOVERNING BODIES REQUIRE US TO IMPLEMENT AND ENFORCE THEM, then maybe you should find another trade ?!
> ...


I used to believe that 'code is code' but since the code has shifted its focus from actual safety to manufacturers profit, I now believe that most of it is still valid but not all of it.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

I would like someone to explain the proper way to torque a lug set screw. When a lug is torqued to spec: DO OT WIGGLE THE WIRE. If you do the wire wiggles around and loosens up screwing up the torque setting. Is it proper to torque, wiggle retorque, wiggle then retorque to get the wire to set in the lug?


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

micromind said:


> I used to believe that 'code is code' but *since the code has shifted its focus from actual safety to manufacturers profit*, I now believe that most of it is still valid but not all of it.


Amen!!!... Thank you, thank you, thank you.


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Nyjoe66 said:


> As a Master Electrician and a Master Electrical Inspector my job and yours is to do just that !! The code is the code and it’s not open for anyone’s interpretation.
> Do you want to not follow the code and be liable for a fire or shock or arc that hurts or kills someone ?!?! If everyone who considers themselves a Master Electrician does their job to code and to at least the acceptable industry standards if not above like all real electricians then we’d seldom have any problems.
> As an Inspector that does 75+ inspections a week I check everyone’s torquing since we implemented the 2017 code May 1st 2020 which was almost a year ago and the grace period and electricians playing dumb phase is over !!!
> The codes are required for a reason and if you don’t understand why that is and why the NEC AND ICC AND IRC AND NFPA AND A PLETHORA OF OTHER AGENCIES AND GOVERNING BODIES REQUIRE US TO IMPLEMENT AND ENFORCE THEM, then maybe you should find another trade ?!
> ...


My God I hope this is hack trolling us. To think that there are blowhards like this guy out there otherwise gives me a migraine.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I wish Hack was still here just because I would love to read his response to this guy 😆


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Just screw them till they squeal.
The only two places I have ever used a torque wrench on small screws was a nuclear power house and NASA.
We were not using torque wrenches on receptacles at either place.
Panels yes.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

eddy current said:


> I wish Hack was still here just because I would love to read his response to this guy 😆


Hack would have chewed on this guy big time.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

eddy current said:


> I wish Hack was still here just because I would love to read his response to this guy 😆


I feel pretty certain that he is still lurking in the shadows here and still reading the posts.
I’m also certain that MTW would have said it’s stupid to even permit the job, and demand that he admit to being a Communist.


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

mofos be cray said:


> My God I hope this is hack trolling us. To think that there are blowhards like this guy out there otherwise gives me a migraine.


I’m a blowhard because I know my job and do it correctly ?! What does that make you ?! I wish the forum allowed me to use the words that I’d like to !!!


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

Quickservice said:


> Amen!!!... Thank you, thank you, thank you.


I’m glad that you agree with at least some of the things I said ?! I’d love to talk with you about this in detail.


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

joe-nwt said:


> Do you ever use your discretion on an inspection?


Yes I use my discretion every day and certain situations require that I do. There unfortunately are countless variables when enforcing the NEC code requirements as well as with the utility companies installation requirements.


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

Quickservice said:


> Hack would have chewed on this guy big time.


Well then maybe Hack should make a comment then !! You can’t chew me up or the fact that I do my job correctly, maybe all of you that have ridiculous comments should bring it on !!!! My post was a true story that happens all to often. And if everyone did their job correctly and followed the code requirements and industry standards instead of worrying about saving a few dollars and worried about the customers safety and their own liabilities there would be far less bad situations in our trade !!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Nyjoe66 said:


> Yes I use my discretion every day and certain situations require that I do. There unfortunately are countless variables when enforcing the NEC code requirements as well as with the utility companies installation requirements.


So the code is not open for interpretation yet you use your discretion. Interesting.


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

splatz said:


> Well it's a shame but you'll get no response from Dr. Hackworth.
> 
> Anyway, how are you checking torquing?


I make everyone put a mark with a sharpie marker on the lug or bolt or screw proving that it was torqued and I ask to see their torque wrench and screwdrivers to prove they have them.
I inspect hundreds of solar farms in Ny State as well as residential and commercial and industrial jobs.
On the solar farms the torquing is required on every lug, bolt, and breaker. It is not only required by code but it’s on all prints as well as specified on all enclosures and both ac and dc breakers.
It’s not an option or a discretionary action, it is a code requirement , period !!!! Which means as as inspector it’s my job to enforce it and I do enforce it !!
I inspected a 10 mw solar farm yesterday that had 20,000 modules and every single combiner box and dc and ac disconnect and demand meter and investor and panel was torqued as required by code. Not one was done incorrectly !!!!!!!
Every lug, bolt, screw, and breaker was torqued and marked with a blue/yellow mark to prove it was torqued.
I have 140 solar farms I inspect in multiple states and all the EC’s on every job make sure that they follow the codes to the letter.
They not only mark the connections but they also take pictures to document the torquing.
If everyone else in our trade would follow suit and do everything to code as is required then the situation in my original post would not happen due to lack of proper torquing, arcing and overheating can still happen for a plethora of other reasons, but loose lugs and screws won’t be the cause !!
In solar situations it’s critical to have tight and proper torquing because of the tremendously high voltages that are present in Dc combiner boxes and disconnects and inverters and all the way back to the switch gear.
The same applies to grounding and bonding connections that are mechanical, connections that are crimped and use cadweld connections are also important to be terminated properly.
Loose ground connections on Dc equipment can cause both tremendous damage to equipment as well as to personnel !!!
The same diligence used in solar farms should be used in the average electricians work because the same dangerous results can occur as it did with me in my original post.
The people on here that are responding to my posts with ridiculous and ignorant comments about following the requirements of the codes should try doing their job correctly, and not finding ways to get around the code to save money or to expedite their jobs completion !!
Eventually you may very well find yourself in the position that I did , where someone else who was unqualified or didn’t follow the codes caused a situation that created an arc that caused a fire because of loose connections on main feeders and grounds . Which found me in an electrical room with a 600 amp main disconnect and a 12 meter bank on fire and melting !!!
Luckily I didn’t get killed and saved the building and it’s residents from harm, next time I may not be so lucky ?!?! And as I said before, I don’t want to be responsible for the injury or death of a building full of people !!! So I do my job as an Electrical Contractor and follow the codes and as an Electrical Inspector I enforce the codes, that’s my job like it’s ever other electricians job on this site !!!
And to reiterate for those with the ignorant and smart ass comments to my posts, if you kill someone because of your lack of proper installation, you have to live with it for ever !!!!
And although not common these situations can and do happen !!!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

"Every lug, bolt, screw, and breaker was torqued and marked with a blue/yellow mark to prove it was torqued."

All that proves is that there were blue/yellow marks on the screws. You didn't do your job properly.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

joe-nwt said:


> "Every lug, bolt, screw, and breaker was torqued and marked with a blue/yellow mark to prove it was torqued."
> 
> All that proves is that there were blue/yellow marks on the screws. You didn't do your job properly.


Now you have just made the lives of all the electricians in his area a living hell. He is now going to make them video every termination to prove they did torque every one.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

joe-nwt said:


> So the code is not open for interpretation yet you use your discretion. Interesting.


I don’t use my discretion with the enforcement of the codes or with their validity, I use my discretion with the method in which people can meet the parameters of the codes.
There’s a big difference between the two.
When someone says they interpret the codes in a different way than someone else it’s because they don’t understand the terminology in the code book or it’s application.
A quick example is when someone says well in the code book it says that the neutral can be used for this that or the other. The neutral is referred to as the grounded conductor in the code book and many people don’t know what that means, it is not called the neutral in the code book just as the hot is called the ungrounded conductor and the ground is called the grounding conductor. Many many people don’t know the definitions of the words in the code book and so they interpret it incorrectly, the code is not open to interpretation, it is literally black and white and those of us that know the meanings and the proper application have no problem.


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

Forge Boyz said:


> Now you have just made the lives of all the electricians in his area a living hell. He is now going to make them video every termination to prove they did torque every one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I didn’t say that I make anyone take videos or pictures, I said that the EC’s do it on their own to prove it, it’s not required.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I blow hard too


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## Nyjoe66 (Apr 8, 2021)

Nyjoe66 said:


> I didn’t say that I make anyone take videos or pictures, I said that the EC’s do it on their own to prove it, it’s not required.


Don’t put words in my mouth !!!


joe-nwt said:


> "Every lug, bolt, screw, and breaker was torqued and marked with a blue/yellow mark to prove it was torqued."
> 
> All that proves is that there were blue/yellow marks on the screws. You didn't do your job properly.


Again, putting words in my mouth !!! And if you knew how to properly do it you would understand what I meant. A line is put when the lug is open and after its torqued to the proper amount you put another line of a different color at the torqued position.
Again people who know how to torque correctly know the acceptable industry standard method.
And a qualified person can see the different tool mark that a torque wrench makes as opposed to a standard Allen key on lugs.
The codes are the codes and they will start being enforced more and more strictly, it’s not open for debate or conjecture !!
It’s my job to enforce the codes and it’s your job to abide by it, if you choose not to then you will fail the inspection. If your inspector isn’t enforcing it he soon will be !!!
All city and third party inspectors have been told that the days of peeling and sticking is over !!! Towns and cities in conjunction with the inspectors association has made it clear that the practice of not doing proper inspections is coming to an end, there has been to much liabilities occurring and it will not continue any further.
The NEC and utility companies as well as individual city’s with augmented codes in conjunction with the the NEC codes are going to be enforced as they were written and everyone is going to be required to use and know them as all licensed electricians should already know.
My company covers a significant portion of Ny state and everyone else is going to have to follow suit, it’s not a punishment, it’s your job to do your work according to the code requirements and it’s mine and every other inspectors job to enforce it and we will !!!!


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Nyjoe66 said:


> And a qualified person can see the different tool mark that a torque wrench makes as opposed to a standard Allen key on lugs.


Tell me more about this. I put an Allen socket adapter on my torque wrench. It doesn't make any different marks from when it is on a regular ratchet.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

"And a qualified person can see the different tool mark that a torque wrench makes as opposed to a standard Allen key on lugs. "

Yeah, right. 

Anyway, you have yourself a nice evening. Maybe we'll chat again.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If this is trolling, my compliments, if not, maybe switch to decaf. Looking for sharpie marks is worth about $0.01. 

It doesn't catch mistakes made by the guy who really tries to do the right thing. 

It doesn't catch the guy who doesn't give a damn and puts a sharpie mark on as if. 

It catches the guy who torques correctly and does not make an ink mark. 

Exactly what does it catch? 

It's a joke. 

As far as anyone video taping every connection - you're really onto something there. They should put those body cams police are wearing on the head of torque wrenches. You should propose that for the next code revision.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

Nyjoe66 said:


> Well then maybe Hack should make a comment then !! You can’t chew me up or the fact that I do my job correctly, maybe all of you that have ridiculous comments should bring it on !!!! My post was a true story that happens all to often. And if everyone did their job correctly and followed the code requirements and industry standards instead of worrying about saving a few dollars and worried about the customers safety and their own liabilities there would be far less bad situations in our trade !!


You obviouly didn't see it that way... but that was a commentary on Hack not you. He was on ET for a very long time, he became so extreme and combative it resulted in him being banned. He did have a great deal of experience and verve regarding all facits of the electrical industry.


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

How to Win Friends and Influence Business People | Dale Carnegie


Interpersonal relationships are as important as ever in today’s business world, but it can be difficult to balance strong leadership and likeability. Dale C...




www.dalecarnegie.com


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

I'm still waiting to hear about the special torque tool that leaves distinctive marks. I really would like to see one.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

I’m curious about the paint marks, is this a NY amendment or an obscure part of the 2020 NEC. If it’s not, how do you demand such a practice?


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## FordNation (Aug 16, 2021)

Here is what happens when you don't torque to spec. This failure took less than 12 months. The wire sheathing melted into the contacts, alerting the customer to the poor work when their oven stopped working. They're lucky their house didn't burn down. The bigger the current and smaller the gauge, the more torque is needed. If your electrician/handyman/whoever does not torque to spec, fire them.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

FordNation said:


> Here is what happens when you don't torque to spec. This failure took less than 12 months. The wire sheathing melted into the contacts, alerting the customer to the poor work when their oven stopped working. They're lucky their house didn't burn down. The bigger the current and smaller the gauge, the more torque is needed. If your electrician/handyman/whoever does not torque to spec, fire them.
> View attachment 157961


Not torqueing or cheap Chinese made stuff? I have stuff that when torqued to the right spec, the device either breaks in you hand or the wire is pinched soo tight it breaks as you put the device into the box.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

kb1jb1 said:


> Not torqueing or cheap Chinese made stuff? I have stuff that when torqued to the right spec, the device either breaks in you hand or the wire is pinched soo tight it breaks as you put the device into the box.


Someone just posted pictures of a torqued receptacle, you could see how it stretched the stranded wires around the screws and they were not sitting in the pressure plate right. I did not have the heart to say it looked like .... , they were so proud of it.


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## FordNation (Aug 16, 2021)

kb1jb1 said:


> Not torqueing or cheap Chinese made stuff?


Leviton is Hecho en Mexico 😁 Torque is mostly an issue with low AWG and/or high current draw. Many homeowners will never regularly pull 15A from a single receptacle, so there is a lot of wiggle room. 8 gauge made of 18 ga copper strands can take more force without pancaking out and shearing. The Siemens recommendation of 25 in lb for 15 A breakers/14 ga feels a lot more extreme. Eaton recommends 25 in lb for their 8 ga 50 A receptacles.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

FordNation said:


> Leviton is Hecho en Mexico 😁 Torque is mostly an issue with low AWG and/or high current draw. Many homeowners will never regularly pull 15A from a single receptacle, so there is a lot of wiggle room. 8 gauge made of 18 ga copper strands can take more force without pancaking out and shearing. The Siemens recommendation of 25 in lb for 15 A breakers/14 ga feels a lot more extreme. Eaton recommends 25 in lb for their 8 ga 50 A receptacles.


The Siemens 25 in-pounds for breakers applies to both copper and aluminum wire. However when you torque Aluminum to 25 in-lb, it pinches it to almost nothing.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

CTshockhazard said:


> Thanks, but I'll stick with my 30 years of experience.


Amen!!!


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

emtnut said:


> That's racist against the mechanically inept :vs_mad:


I thought it was only in the U.S. where EVERYTHING is racist.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

This is how it’s done






TikTok







vm.tiktok.com


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

McClary’s Electrical said:


> This is how it’s done
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty much.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Pretty much.


lol I might have went a little over board on that one.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Quickservice said:


> I thought it was only in the U.S. where EVERYTHING is racist.


Same up here, only difference is we say 'sorry' after 🤣


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

McClary’s Electrical said:


> This is how it’s done
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A Robinson bit is the cats meow!


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

I tighten all device terminal screws to a very precise German specification.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

five.five-six said:


> I tighten all device terminal screws to a very precise German specification.


Let me guess, you are German.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Ghudentiet!


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

kmlnk said:


> I am now torquing all circuit breakers, panel terminals, switches, and receptacles per 2017 NEC requirements. Torque for Leviton residential devices is 12 -14 inch pounds, commercial devices 20 inch pounds. I believe Hubble is 9-12 inch lbs for residential devices. Of course follow what is printed on the device, or consult the manufacturer.
> I use a torque screwdriver with a range of 5 to 60 inch lbs. which cost about $70. I always return the dial to zero after a torquing session. I find it is much faster to use the torque tool verses a screwdriver and going 1/4 turn past "snug" which is not accurate.


None of it is accurate anyway. Torque is thread friction not clamping force.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

five.five-six said:


> I tighten all device terminal screws to a very precise German specification.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

paulengr said:


> None of it is accurate anyway. Torque is thread friction not clamping force.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey! Keep your facts to yourself.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

five.five-six said:


> I tighten all device terminal screws to a very precise German specification.





MikeFL said:


> Ghudentiet!


There you have it.


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## FordNation (Aug 16, 2021)

kb1jb1 said:


> The Siemens 25 in-pounds for breakers applies to both copper and aluminum wire. However when you torque Aluminum to 25 in-lb, it pinches it to almost nothing.


I stopped using Siemens anything after trying to troubleshoot their AFCIs. I am not sure who designs their stuff but if your 15 amp breakers trip consistently at 5 amps, they're broken. Been fine using Square D and Cutler Hammer breakers/boxes instead and no callbacks.


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## LensMan (Sep 3, 2021)

Nyjoe66 said:


> As a Master Electrician and a Master Electrical Inspector my job and yours is to do just that !! The code is the code and it’s not open for anyone’s interpretation.
> Do you want to not follow the code and be liable for a fire or shock or arc that hurts or kills someone ?!?! If everyone who considers themselves a Master Electrician does their job to code and to at least the acceptable industry standards if not above like all real electricians then we’d seldom have any problems.
> As an Inspector that does 75+ inspections a week I check everyone’s torquing since we implemented the 2017 code May 1st 2020 which was almost a year ago and the grace period and electricians playing dumb phase is over !!!
> The codes are required for a reason and if you don’t understand why that is and why the NEC AND ICC AND IRC AND NFPA AND A PLETHORA OF OTHER AGENCIES AND GOVERNING BODIES REQUIRE US TO IMPLEMENT AND ENFORCE THEM, then maybe you should find another trade ?!
> ...


I think you're alright, Man! There sure is a lot of resistance to using a torque device here. What's the big deal, when you reach proper torque it clicks. Done!


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

LensMan said:


> I think you're alright, Man! There sure is a lot of resistance to using a torque device here. What's the big deal, when you reach proper torque it clicks. Done!


The resistance is because most of us see it as a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Give it like 4 chug a lugs with a Robertson tip on a 12v Milwaukee impact and your good to go


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Ever


460 Delta said:


> The resistance is because most of us see it as a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.


Problem was that torque screwdriver sales were not where they needed to be.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

joe-nwt said:


> Ever
> 
> 
> Problem was that torque screwdriver sales were not where they needed to be.


So….. Hax was right about the envelopes full of cash. Hmm, interesting.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Product sales (and corporate profit) has been the main motivation for just about every code change for a very long time. 

I bet if it were to be a rule that no corporation could profit from the requirement to use any product, there would be no more idiotic code changes.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

micromind said:


> I bet if it were to be a rule that no corporation could profit from the requirement to use any product, there would be no more idiotic code changes.


If that rule went into effect and covered current and future code, it would pare down the NEC to the size of an Ugly’s and just as easy to understand.


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

There are various bldg dept here in California that require a torque test be done in front of the inspector in order to get a final. Some of the tech companies we work for require it for ISO.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

I know this issue has been beat to death, but I still have not gotten an answer on the proper procedure to torque a lug. When we install a 250 kcmil xhhw al into a SqD lug and tighten it to 450 inlbs, then back off and retorque to 450 inlbs the wire still will come loose and fall out of the lug when it gets wiggled wihile installing other wire in the panel. I am sick of hearing "just torque it to the spec." There has got to be a procedure to follow. does anybody know what it is?


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

tmessner said:


> I know this issue has been beat to death, but I still have not gotten an answer on the proper procedure to torque a lug. When we install a 250 kcmil xhhw al into a SqD lug and tighten it to 450 inlbs, then back off and retorque to 450 inlbs the wire still will come loose and fall out of the lug when it gets wiggled wihile installing other wire in the panel. I am sick of hearing "just torque it to the spec." There has got to be a procedure to follow. does anybody know what it is?


It is like after rebuilding an engine. You have to go back after a set time period and re-torque everything. Building shut downs and opening every panel and disconnect....

I hope you realize I am being facetious.

Let common sense prevail.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Yes, but probably closer to the truth than anything else that is promoted.


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## Bluenose for rent (Nov 6, 2020)

I asked an inspector what he thought about using a torque wrench on everyday connections, he said he wouldn’t comment, then took out his Allen keys and hand checked tightness on the mains.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

How often does anyone send their torque tools out for calibration?

NEVER, seems to be the answer I get.

Worked at the South Texas Nuclear Project and, if I remember correctly, my torque wrenches had to be sent in for calibration after a certain number of uses.

I believe it was every 250(?) bolts or 90 days which ever came first.

You could easily torque that many screws installing receptacles and light switches in a day.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

kb1jb1 said:


> Let common sense prevail.


Common sense.......there hasn't been any sort of common sense in any code in over 30 years.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

micromind said:


> Common sense.......there hasn't been any sort of common sense in any code in over 30 years.


Someone once told me that the problem in the world today is that there are too many highly educated people making rules. Highly educated but no common sense.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I know I posted this years ago ... but here it is again...

I remember back ~~late '90's, they brought in torquing wheel lugs on all our big trucks at Traffic.
Within a year, they noticed that some of the wheels were falling off !
At about the same time, it was in the news about tires flying of semi's too.

"Educated Engineer ... Take 2" ... ummm, OK tourque the wheels, then go back to re-tourque a week later.

Never heard of (or at least it was rare) of wheels flying off trucks UNTIL they started the tourque requirement.


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## paperMillRetired (4 mo ago)

HackWork said:


> How many houses have burned down because you didn't tighten down a screw terminal on a device enough or too much?
> 
> You probably should have used the backstabs, that's *definitely* safer than tightening screw terminals without a torque driver.
> 
> The NEC, everyone. Blindly follow along, it will keep you warm and safe.


Back stabs have almost caused a receptacle fire in my personal experience. I am rewiring all mine to screw connections.


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)




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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

DefinitelyNotHax said:


> Where do I begin…


At the beginning of course silly. 

Welcome back while you still can be here. The ban hammer is falling while I type this now I fear.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

DefinitelyNotHax said:


> They are so mean to me 🥺


I think that ET needs a parole board to release you back into society, with conditions of course.
I nominate @splatz for your parole officer, he has the calm phlegmatic demeanor to tame a wild Jersey native such as yourself.
If you prove your rehabilitation as a success, perhaps PeterD will be allowed to rejoin in the merriment.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

460 Delta said:


> I think that ET needs a parole board to release you back into society, with conditions of course.
> I nominate @splatz for your parole officer, he has the calm phlegmatic demeanor to tame a wild Jersey native such as yourself.
> If you prove your rehabilitation as a success, perhaps PeterD will be allowed to rejoin in the merriment.


Since he’s from Jersey, by now he lives at a new exit and is a changed man. 
He no longer resides at 33rd and 3rd street on the south side.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Wirenuting said:


> Since he’s from Jersey, by now he lives at a new exit and is a changed man.
> He no longer resides at 33rd and 3rd street on the south side.


??


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

460 Delta said:


> ??


Hmmm, it’s an old Jersey joke. 
The exit numbers on the highways change faster then a babies diaper.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

460 Delta said:


> I think that ET needs a parole board to release you back into society, with conditions of course.
> I nominate @splatz for your parole officer, he has the calm phlegmatic demeanor to tame a wild Jersey native such as yourself.
> If you prove your rehabilitation as a success, perhaps PeterD will be allowed to rejoin in the merriment.


I imagine a forum parole officer could make him drive them around like Miss Daisy in the back of that rolling Hilton hotel Sprinter van of his. Would there be unlimited lever nut privileges?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

splatz said:


> Would there be unlimited lever nut privileges?


Well I never thought of that, but I would have to say yes. Show up for work with your pocket empty, and go home with it full.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

DefinitelyNotHax said:


> Do I get a say in this???


No, hush. Be quiet for once while adults try and negotiate your release. We have your best interest at heart.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

DefinitelyNotHax said:


> Do I get a say in this???


No.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

DefinitelyNotHax said:


> Nyjoe is long gone so there’s really no reason to reply to his nonsense.
> 
> I will reiterate a few things. Many of us have used the proper torque on terminations just to find that it was either way to loose and the cable could be pulled out, or it was way too tight and the bolt (whatever you would call that part of the lug) literally cut into the conductor and broke strands off.
> 
> ...


I truly believe that the problem with the whole torque issue is the strand settling situation. It’s like using a Kearney, get it tight and a whack with a hammer and it’s loose again.

The technique I use on lugs is I turn it “tight”, back it up a quarter turn, turn it “tight” again which will be farther, then repeat until it stops in the same place. I’m not talking about cutting the wire strands tight, but normal tight each time. The tighten and loosen allows the strands to mesh rather than stack and you get a good reliable joint then.

Let the flaming begin.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

DefinitelyNotHax said:


> You smell like tuna farts!


Watch it mister, I’m trying to get you paroled and you mouth off like this?
Keep it up and we’ll handcuff you so you can’t talk anymore.

Also you have a bad haircut.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Welp old jrzy ran out of time again. It was fun while it lasted. We miss you.


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