# New wire in gutter with energized conductors



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Is is permissible to have an employee install new conductors in a wireway occupied by insulated conductors that will remain energized? Question relates to the installation of new conductors in an existing A-B Centerline MCC, which has built-in wireways that are isolated from exposed energized parts.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Are you asking about osha regs?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> Are you asking about osha regs?


Uh-huh. They're pretty much the only one's that I think would apply to this situation.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I think the osha regs are a loose noose that they can tighten as needed to punish anyone who has an accident. If you did what you propose and someone got hurt, "working while energized" would be interpreted by their lawyers to mean you screwed up, and your butt would be in the hokey. (JMO - I don't have anything to back this up yet)


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

wildleg said:


> I think the osha regs are a loose noose that they can tighten as needed to punish anyone who has an accident. If you did what you propose and someone got hurt, "working while energized" would be interpreted by their lawyers to mean you screwed up, and your butt would be in the hokey. (JMO - I don't have anything to back this up yet)


I hear what you're saying, and I'm thinking the same way, but... how is what I propose functionally any different than working above a drop ceiling with a bunch of existing cables up there?

Here's my puzzle. I'm not sure if "energized work" includes insulated energized parts, or only exposed energized parts. After all, I'd have to think they designed these MCC sections this way to allow moves, adds, and changes without shutting the whole lineup down.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Thinking back, and reading a thing or two. Everything I remember does say "exposed". I would say insulated wire only was not exposed. 

Also seems like the last time I pulled wire to energized gear it was a similar situation and the covers in the centers were open. The GC pretended they were all about safety,so I think they would have said something, since shutting the covers would not have impacted their schedule.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

NFPA 70E Article 100 - Definitions
Working on energized electrical conductors or circuit parts - Comming in contact with energized conductors or circut parts with the hands, feet, or other body parts, with tools, probes, or with test equipment, regardless of the PPE a person is wearing. 

No mention of "exposed"


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Maybe the "exposed" was just commentary I was reading. 70E is a little expensive to own so I was looking on the web. 

So, your take on it is that the wiring section would require same working conditions as if the entire unit was opened?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

s.kelly said:


> Maybe the "exposed" was just commentary I was reading. 70E is a little expensive to own so I was looking on the web.


About $50. But really, how can you have a safety program without having the standard?



s.kelly said:


> So, your take on it is that the wiring section would require same working conditions as if the entire unit was opened?


Yep, needs to be shutdown, unless somehow the energized work can be justified.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Zog, what you are getting at is that any electrical work that you perform "LIVE", should only be done if shutting it off would have inherent dangers to person's eg., patients, or could damage the system itself. If you do work live and something or someone gets injured, punitive damages could result. I'm just paraphrasing , but is there more?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Since the conductor is the part under the insulation, I'd say I'm good to go. No conductors to come in contact with in that gutter. They're all insulated.


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## Ray Cyr (Nov 21, 2007)

Ok, so let's say that I have a surface mounted recep, and the conduit goes from the top of the box to the bottom of a gutter and the gutter then goes to a large j-box, and I need to remove this recep for equipment coming in. Let's add that the conductors feeding the recep are spliced inside the j-box. According to what is being said here, even though I use proper lock-out and the circuit I am working on is de-energized, I can not remove the now unused conductors from the gutter or the j-box unless every other conductor in them is de-energized, if de-energizing every other conductor does not effect any critical equipment?


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