# Stranded wire on receptacles



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Went to change recp. in offices today,from old wire clamp,brown,to white ,screw terminals,with rhw,#12,9 strand.A naysayer said I should use fork [email protected]$64/100.any one? I ain't losing moey to some diy. To shut him up,I said this is covered under the 9 Srand conductor rule.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bobelectric said:


> Went to change recp. in offices today,from old wire clamp,brown,to white ,screw terminals,with rhw,#12,9 strand.A naysayer said I should use fork cri[email protected]$64/100.any one? I ain't losing moey to some diy. To shut him up,I said this is covered under the 9 Srand conductor rule.



All UL Listed devices are for use with stranded or solid. There is no requirement to use a terminal other than personal choice.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*stranded wire on recepts.*

Stak-ons would probably be better but if I didn't have a choice at the time I would just strip the wire, then reverse twist the strands and place it securely under the screw.


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

bobelectric said:


> Went to change recp. in offices today,from old wire clamp,brown,to white ,screw terminals,with rhw,#12,9 strand.A naysayer said I should use fork [email protected]$64/100.any one? I ain't losing moey to some diy. To shut him up,I said this is covered under the 9 Srand conductor rule.


That's too much, you can get 500 of them for that much money: http://tequipment.net/Ideal83-7221.asp


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Stak-ons would probably be better but if I didn't have a choice at the time I would just strip the wire, then reverse twist the strands and place it securely under the screw.


Another trick is to strip an inch of insulation off, but don't pull the insulation all the way off, keep it on the last half inch. Wrap it around the screw and tighten down, then use your ***** to cut off the last half inch of conductor and insulation. The insulation on the end of the conductor holds the strands tightly together and stops them from splaying all over the place.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Thanks. I'll try the reverse twist, when i use 19 strand.(thhn) you too JackBoot


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Well in the CEC it requires you to use a sta-kon (or bunch tinning) for connecting stranded wire to a screw without a pressure plate...but I have never worked for a company that actually did this (sta-kons are expensive and some guys don't know how to use a crimper properly)....As riveter said, twisting the strands nice and tight in the reverse direction of the stranding works pretty well!


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

JackBoot said:


> That's too much, you can get 500 of them for that much money: http://tequipment.net/Ideal83-7221.asp


 My supply house has them for like 7 or 8 bucks for 100. 
I like to use them for devices, it works fine without them but if you ever have to change it out stakons are so much easier.


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## McCaa (Sep 3, 2009)

I carry them specifically for use on stranded wire. Whether the code requires them or not, is irrelevant to me. I use them because I think its the best way to do it. However, I pay $7.20 per 100 from my local supply house which is only $.07 each so I don't consider it a loss to do a better quality job.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

McCaa said:


> I carry them specifically for use on stranded wire. Whether the code requires them or not, is irrelevant to me. I use them because I think its the best way to do it. However, I pay $7.20 per 100 from my local supply house which is only $.07 each so I don't consider it a loss to do a better quality job.



In my opinion the only thing that is better is how it looks, electrically I think it is weaker.


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## McCaa (Sep 3, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> In my opinion the only thing that is better is how it looks, electrically I think it is weaker.


I use them because I think its a better connection. The stake-on is crimped to the wire and has a solid, tight connection on the screws. Stranded wire almost always has wild strands that, in my opinion, are not secure.

In the end, it will work. However, I warranty my work for life so I would hate to come back in 10 years because I didn't want to spend a few cents on stake ons.

Just my way of doing things.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

McCaa said:


> I use them because I think its a better connection. The stake-on is crimped to the wire and has a solid, tight connection on the screws. Stranded wire almost always has wild strands that, in my opinion, are not secure.
> 
> In the end, it will work. However, I warranty my work for life so I would hate to come back in 10 years because I didn't want to spend a few cents on stake ons.
> 
> Just my way of doing things.


 For life? I bet you change alot of ballasts huh?


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## McCaa (Sep 3, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> For life? I bet you change alot of ballasts huh?


No. I warranty workmanship. Not parts. The only reason I would need to return for free is if I screwed up the installation to begin with. If I screwed it up then I should fix it for free.

To date, I have never had to go back on an issue due to workmanship.

Parts are parts and they go bad due to product failure.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

JackBoot said:


> Another trick is to strip an inch of insulation off, but don't pull the insulation all the way off, keep it on the last half inch. Wrap it around the screw and tighten down, then use your ***** to cut off the last half inch of conductor and insulation. The insulation on the end of the conductor holds the strands tightly together and stops them from splaying all over the place.


This is the method I use except I don't trim the left over piece. Plus, I think simpler is better and I think crimp connectors are just one more thing that can fail.


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

McCaa said:


> . Stranded wire almost always has wild strands that, in my opinion, are not secure.


No offense, but I think the problem is that you are not doing it correctly. Try my method above, there won't be any loose strands.


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## McCaa (Sep 3, 2009)

JackBoot said:


> No offense, but I think the problem is that you are not doing it correctly. Try my method above, there won't be any loose strands.


No offense taken at all. I've used that method before and I'm not saying its wrong, I just prefer to use the stake-on forks. 

I virtually never use stranded wire for anything. Almost all (95%) my 12 and 14 gauge wire is solid & receptacles are stab ins, to avoid this issue to begin with.

Again, I'm not saying you all are wrong, I just don't use that method. If it was only for looks, I would still do it.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

You didn't use backwired receptacles?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I did a lighting job for a guy who insisted on sta-kons. I had 5 hours just making up sta-kon loops for outlets. I loved it. I would have had a stroke if I was paying for it. To each his on. I know this is not on topic, but is some resistance sensitive equipment sta-kons are a necessity.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

nolabama said:


> I know this is not on topic, but is some resistance sensitive equipment sta-kons are a necessity.



How does adding another connection reduce resistance?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> How does adding another connection reduce resistance?


It does not but frayed wires are a bad thing if make up is poor.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

I used the method jackboot described but like waco I did not cut off the little bit of insulation. I left it on the end of the wire to help keep the strands together. I preferred to use receptacles that backwired and you tightened the crews to hold the wire in place.

I showed this method to a contractor on a job site, right after telling him he had to remove all the sta-kons he installed on his stranded wires. He used sta-kons rated for 12 volts not 120 volt.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

manchestersparky said:


> I used the method jackboot described but like waco I did not cut off the little bit of insulation. I left it on the end of the wire to help keep the strands together. I preferred to use receptacles that backwired and you tightened the crews to hold the wire in place.
> 
> I showed this method to a contractor on a job site, right after telling him he had to remove all the sta-kons he installed on his stranded wires. He used sta-kons rated for 12 volts not 120 volt.


All the sta-kons I have ever seen are rated 600 volts. What do 12 volt rated ones look like?


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

drsparky said:


> All the sta-kons I have ever seen are rated 600 volts. What do 12 volt rated ones look like?


Probably the cheap things you get from Radio Shack.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> In my opinion the only thing that is better is how it looks, electrically I think it is weaker.


I agree. Stak-ons are another point of failure, doubling the amount of terminations. Plus they need a lot of room on the box.

I have been wrapping stranded wire for quite a while and have actually found more loose and burned solid wire terminations on service calls than stranded wire terminations.


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## nez (Jan 16, 2010)

I try not to wrap stranded around a screw. I prefer the devices with the terminal plate for stranded. If the device only has screws sometimes I pigtail a piece of solid onto it with wirenuts. If I have to wrap it I twist the ends backwards like others have said works for them.


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

nez said:


> I try not to wrap stranded around a screw. I prefer the devices with the terminal plate for stranded. If the device only has screws *sometimes I pigtail a piece of solid onto it with wirenuts.* If I have to wrap it I twist the ends backwards like others have said works for them.


If I saw you doing that on a job I was running I'd either 

A) Make you go dig a ditch if you're an apprentice or
B) Get your check if you're a journeyman. 

Just sayin...


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## marmanson96 (Jan 14, 2010)

nez said:


> I try not to wrap stranded around a screw. I prefer the devices with the terminal plate for stranded. If the device only has screws sometimes I pigtail a piece of solid onto it with wirenuts. If I have to wrap it I twist the ends backwards like others have said works for them.



did you just started doing electrical work???


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## Electrified (Jun 5, 2009)

McCaa said:


> No offense taken at all. I've used that method before and I'm not saying its wrong, I just prefer to use the stake-on forks.
> 
> I virtually never use stranded wire for anything. Almost all (95%) my 12 and 14 gauge wire is solid & receptacles are stab ins, to avoid this issue to begin with.
> 
> Again, I'm not saying you all are wrong, I just don't use that method. If it was only for looks, I would still do it.


 
Only hacks use the stab ins. :no:


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

Electrified said:


> Only hacks use the stab ins. :no:


He mentioned 12 gauge wire...


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## Electrified (Jun 5, 2009)

JackBoot said:


> He mentioned 12 gauge wire...


That's not a "stab in" then


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## ohmontherange (May 7, 2008)

Iv'e always used the same method Jackboot suggested. 
Simple and it works.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

JackBoot, reverse twist is the way to go!


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

Electrified said:


> Only hacks use the stab ins. :no:


Lately all the 20 amp receptacles that have made it to site you need to stab into the little hole, but then tighten down the screw to secure it. No wrapping around a screw. I really like them, the 15amp receptacles seem to be half like this and half wrap around the screw depending what supplier. 

I never use the stabs, but then everything is #12. 


Personally the only time I see stranded #10, 12, 14 is in cords and some of those little tails that some things have, although an electric fireplace is all that comes to mind with a stranded tail right now. 


Is stranded used a lot in the states?


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

ohmontherange said:


> Iv'e always used the same method Jackboot suggested.
> Simple and it works.


Same here except I just give the wire an extra twist or two in its original direction. Less work and the end result is the same.

Personally I prefer using a stake on, specially with the fine stranded wire, but if it isn't in the specs, it just doesn't get done unless its for a regular customer. When I know I'm likely going to be the next guy back there, I do what I can to make future work easier.

As far as backstabbing I just don't do it. Guess I'm not the backstabbing type :laughing: I use the screws, its just a superior installation method. Numerous service calls have proven that. I don't think I've ever seen a screw that was properly tightened be the sole cause of a failure point, though I've seen a great many back stabs that failed even though properly installed.


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> Lately all the 20 amp receptacles that have made it to site you need to stab into the little hole, but then tighten down the screw to secure it. No wrapping around a screw. I really like them, the 15amp receptacles seem to be half like this and half wrap around the screw depending what supplier.


Yeah those are clamps and an entirely different thing from back stabs. I know the type you're talking about, the flat piece of metal is internal to the receptacle. I use a lot of those, and the ones with the clamp on the surface i.e. Cooper switches for resi all use clamps up here, so does a lot of the Hubbel spec grade stuff I've been running into.

For the last several months all I've been seeing is the high end spec grade stuff, lots of Teck90, rigid (regular/aluminum/pvc coated), vibration rated marrettes, pretty much the best and most expensive of everything....

...its easy to spec that kind of stuff when you run a monopoly and just raise the rates when you need more cash, but man its a real treat to work with such good materials all the way around.


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## nez (Jan 16, 2010)

JackBoot said:


> If I saw you doing that on a job I was running I'd either
> 
> A) Make you go dig a ditch if you're an apprentice or
> B) Get your check if you're a journeyman.
> ...


 
Usually you have to pig tail anyway. Most jobs have specifications for solid under 8 awg anyway. Wrapping stranded has always been frowned apon in my area. I'm not saying Ive never done it, but I think quality goes up when you dont do it.


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## nez (Jan 16, 2010)

marmanson96 said:


> did you just started doing electrical work???


Yesterday.:thumbsup:


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't see backwired receps as stabs and I prefer them if cost is no issue. And, using solid wire jumpers is also not a show stopper. I won't use stabs even with #14 wire!


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