# Do I need to separate neutrals



## 4464528 (Aug 14, 2012)

Installing a new 200A main breaker disconnect on the outside of residence to allow me to tap conductors for a solar pv install. Panel inside is a 200a main breaker. Two questions. Do I need to now install a gec between the new main breaker and the existing panel. Also, is the current main panel now considered a sub-panel, requiring me to isolate the neutrals?


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

You will need to redo the entire grounding electrode system and you will need a ground from the disco to the [now] subpanel.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Must separate the grounds and neutrals in the subpanel. I don't think that you can splice a GEC, might need to install a new one from the new main, or irreversible splice (crimp) or cadweld.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would like to ask the Solar guy if he is licensed to do the electric work on a service.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I would like to ask the Solar guy if he is licensed to do the electric work on a service.


You can't do PV in MA without at least a j-mans license.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Thank you -- around here it seems like they can do the PV but not the tying in part.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

To the OP

You need an equipment grounding conductor between the new panel and the existing panel and the grounding electrode conductor's need to be moved to the new service panel or new ones installed.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Thank you -- around here it seems like they can do the PV but not the tying in part.


It has been a fight here, the line is still not clear. The wires are electricians for sure. The mounts and panels are kind of gray.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

BBQ said:


> It has been a fight here, the line is still not clear. The wires are electricians for sure. The mounts and panels are kind of gray.


Had an inspector in Plainville MA that required the panels to be installed by electricians. The racking and mounts could be done by others but the wiring and panels had to be by electricians.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

the MBJ & GEC's that would make to it move to the first point of disconnect 44

~CS~


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## 4464528 (Aug 14, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I would like to ask the Solar guy if he is licensed to do the electric work on a service.


Yes, recently licensed journeyman. Feeling overwhelmed, as my apprenticeship offered limited exposure to service work and I'm not the best at navigating the code where grounding/bonding are concerned. On my own with this company with no other experienced electricians to bounce things off of. Hence my travels to this site.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

4464528 said:


> Yes, recently licensed journeyman. Feeling overwhelmed, as my apprenticeship offered limited exposure to service work and I'm not the best at navigating the code where grounding/bonding are concerned. On my own with this company with no other experienced electricians to bounce things off of. Hence my travels to this site.


Don't feel bad. Grounding and bonding are one of the more difficult parts of the NEC. Please feel free to ask. I only asked to make sure you were not doing work you shouldn't be doing. As stated every state has different rules so I was being cautious.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

4464528 said:


> Installing a new 200A main breaker disconnect on the outside of residence to allow me to tap conductors for a solar pv install. Panel inside is a 200a main breaker. Two questions. Do I need to now install a gec between the new main breaker and the existing panel. Also, is the current main panel now considered a sub-panel, requiring me to isolate the neutrals?


Why do you need a main disconnect? Why don't you put a 12 by 12 PVC box under the meter?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

4464528 said:


> Yes, recently licensed journeyman. Feeling overwhelmed, as my apprenticeship offered limited exposure to service work and I'm not the best at navigating the code where grounding/bonding are concerned. On my own with this company with no other experienced electricians to bounce things off of. Hence my travels to this site.


Like Dennis said Article 250 Is really tough,,,This is a good place for all of us to learn it


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

4464528 said:


> Installing a new 200A main breaker disconnect on the outside of residence to allow me to tap conductors for a solar pv install. Panel inside is a 200a main breaker. Two questions. Do I need to now install a gec between the new main breaker and the existing panel. Also, is the current main panel now considered a sub-panel, requiring me to isolate the neutrals?


It sounds like your doing more work than you really have to. I wouldn't put a main disconnect. I would put a 12 by 12 box load side of meter and feed PVC array ac disconnect and re-feed main panel.


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## 4464528 (Aug 14, 2012)

Elephante said:


> It sounds like your doing more work than you really have to. I wouldn't put a main disconnect. I would put a 12 by 12 box load side of meter and feed PVC array ac disconnect and re-feed main panel.


Good question... I'm working off of a one-line that calls for a new 200A enclosed main breaker going to a jbox on load side of meter. Inside the jbox is a tap re-feeding the existing panel and a 60A fused pv ac disconnect. Now I am trying to figure out why the new main breaker is needed.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Is all the equipment outside?


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## 4464528 (Aug 14, 2012)

Elephante said:


> Is all the equipment outside?


yes it is


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## 4464528 (Aug 14, 2012)

4464528 said:


> Good question... I'm working off of a one-line that calls for a new 200A enclosed main breaker going to a jbox on load side of meter. Inside the jbox is a tap re-feeding the existing panel and a 60A fused pv ac disconnect. Now I am trying to figure out why the new main breaker is needed.


According to an engineer who works with us, poco requires main breaker disconnect. Also says that, without mb disconnect, code would consider the service to be 260A. Not sure I follow it all yet...


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

4464528 said:


> According to an engineer who works with us, poco requires main breaker disconnect. Also says that, without mb disconnect, code would consider the service to be 260A. Not sure I follow it all yet...


I just don't understand why putting a 200 main disconnect changing the ampacity of the wire.


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## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

Elephante said:


> I just don't understand why putting a 200 main disconnect changing the ampacity of the wire.


Can you get a code reference.?


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## Sparkycoog (Jun 25, 2013)

4464528 said:


> Yes, recently licensed journeyman. Feeling overwhelmed, as my apprenticeship offered limited exposure to service work and I'm not the best at navigating the code where grounding/bonding are concerned. On my own with this company with no other experienced electricians to bounce things off of. Hence my travels to this site.


Kind of weird because in many places a company needs at least one master electrician. This is definitely a specialty area though.


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## Rap2 (Dec 17, 2010)

*load side tap*



Elephante said:


> I just don't understand why putting a 200 main disconnect changing the ampacity of the wire.


Assuming this is a line side tap from a 200 amp main breaker feeding a 200 amp main lug sub panel...

You are not changing the ampacity of the wire you are adding 60 amps of PV power to a branch circuit that is only capable of delivering 200 amps from the utility for a total of 260 amps at peek PV production. 

If the sub panel is rated at 200 amps you are only allowed to feed it 120% or 240 amps, you need to protect the sub panel with another 200 amp breaker downstream of the inter connection point of the PV.


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