# Drilling with long bits



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Greenlee 712P placement tool.








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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Used to love the small/long bits when I was installing security in existing door frames to allow wires to get up into drop ceiling.


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## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Greenlee 712P placement tool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I usually use the placement tool to get the bit centered on the bottom plate. But I've read horror stories even when using the tool.

BTW, the placement tool in the photo is being used incorrectly. You need it to be in the wall for it to do anything.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BlueBox said:


> I usually use the placement tool to get the bit centered on the bottom plate. But I've read horror stories even when using the tool.


Experience is the best tool.



BlueBox said:


> BTW, the placement tool in the photo is being used incorrectly. You need it to be in the wall for it to do anything.


It's not 'being used', it's just being shown for a promotional photograph.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I try to avoid them as much as possible, I can get it to work fine it just drilling blind and I don't think it;s worth the risk, having said that I keep two of them with me.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Experience is the best tool.


So experience is your middle name?


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Its like everything, they definitely have their place and can be a godsend when you cant get anything else to work. With that said I'd try to hit all the other options in the book first.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I use them all the time. Just check whats above before you drill.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> So experience is your middle name?



I have _many _middle names. :thumbsup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

BlueBox said:


> I've heard a lot of horror stories about drilling with long bits (ship auger bits), I had one big accident myself in which I found the other end of the bit on the outside of the house
> 
> However, I still use them sometimes in situations in which I feel they are pretty safe. Does anyone else use a long flexible bit to drill from a receptacle cutout down thru the bottom plate into the basement? I figure it's only going thru the 2X4 and the plywood floor so there isn't much chance for it to come out in a bad place :whistling2:
> 
> Do you still use long bits for this or have you swore them off completely?


I use them all the time, and like 480 said, experience is a huge factor; just take your time, "measure twice, cut once". Make damn sure there is nothing in the way in the attic or crawlspace and that you follow your angle through to the end, i.e., visualize where the bit is going to go. One type of work I am about to give up with the long bits is drilling against the ceiling joists when running can light switch legs: too many bad things can happen then!


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I have _many _middle names. :thumbsup:


480=the best tool
the best tool=experience
480=experience?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

As kirk said, "Look what you're going up into". That's on one hand. Going down through a cut out for old work, I know your concern. I have had luck with them the couple of times I used a 48" bit, but brother, you have a right for concern. They sure can walk if you aren't paying attention.

This reminds of a story from a member here on another forum when he drove down a ground rod and went downstairs in the basement only to find it sticking out of the wall. It went down, hit a rock and swam right in through the basement wall to free air,....yikes


Be careful with that thing Eugene


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

If I'm going to use them I tell the customer that the only way it's happening with out sheet rock work is to use a bit like that. And that I'm NOT guaranteeing that I won't do any damage. If a owner thinks you can sling a 4' flexible bit around and not have a chance of damage more power to them.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> If I'm going to use them I tell the customer that the only way it's happening with out sheet rock work is to use a bit like that. And that I'm NOT guaranteeing that I won't do any damage. If a owner thinks you can sling a 4' flexible bit around and not have a chance of damage more power to them.


 Wow thats a great marketing tactic....."Im not responsible for what I drill through".....LOL Sorry ....its just funny to me......IF you dont want to do it fine, but dont act like your being made to do it.....


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

A guy I work with took one of those right into the bottom of a HO dresser. Wound dozens of unmentionables around the bit. Awkward.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

goose134 said:


> A guy I work with took one of those right into the bottom of a HO dresser. Wound dozens of unmentionables around the bit. Awkward.



Thus, the origin of the phrase "Get your panties in a bunch"?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Thus, the origin of the phrase "Get your panties in a bunch"?


I justhope there were no midgets wearing said unmentionables sleeping in the dresser...


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Wow thats a great marketing tactic....."Im not responsible for what I drill through".....LOL Sorry ....its just funny to me......IF you dont want to do it fine, but dont act like your being made to do it.....


Just how I feel about remodel. Things can go wrong, they don't very often but I don't feel responsible if there is blocking in a wall I don't see or something unforseen in a cut in. If you think you can pull fishing and cut in off a 100% of the time more power to you.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

What I do when there is a crosser in the wall is:Cut the hole for the box, locate the wall from under the floor, drill a hole straight up into the wall, push a fish up until it hits the crosser to determine where the crosser is. Then drill two more holes up, beside the first hole. Shine a light up one hole, pass the long bit into one hole until it touches the crosser, then look up the empty hole to make sure your bit is centered in the crosser, then drill. A PITA but it works for me.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

oldtimer said:


> What I do when there is a crosser in the wall is:Cut the hole for the box, locate the wall from under the floor, drill a hole straight up into the wall, push a fish up until it hits the crosser to determine where the crosser is. Then drill two more holes up, beside the first hole. Shine a light up one hole, pass the long bit into one hole until it touches the crosser, then look up the empty hole to make sure your bit is centered in the crosser, then drill. A PITA but it works for me.


I have done this from attics when drilling through fire stops. I can think of several jobs where i saved many hours using a long flex bit and some jobs that just could not have been finished without one. I find that taking your time, checking measurements 2-3 times just to be sure before drilling and good common sense will lead to few mistakes when using these bits. And Yes, i have poked out a wall drilling from an attic down into a wall and through a second fire stop only to have the bit follow its own path. It was a HUDD job too, lost money on that job.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

BlueBox said:


> Do you still use long bits for this or have you swore them off completely?


I caught the upstairs carpet several years ago and the repair negated the $300 I "made" on the job.

I will still _ocaisionally_ use them. We don't have basements here but drilling down thru a bottom plate from a recep or switch doesn't seem like it would be a problem.

I draw the line at driling horizontally thru more than a couple joists. The think tends to wander and you can't be really sure that there is no plumbing/electrical hidden. 

I've found that a little drywall repair is generally an easier option.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> I usually use the placement tool to get the bit centered on the bottom plate. But I've read horror stories even when using the tool.
> 
> BTW, the placement tool in the photo is being used incorrectly. You need it to be in the wall for it to do anything.







well duh,,,,,,,,,,if it was in the wall, they couldn't take a picture


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## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> well duh,,,,,,,,,,if it was in the wall, they couldn't take a picture


Are you really going to go to every thread I posted in and make some dumb comment?

Did I get you THAT mad when you couldn't refute what I said?

How childish are you??


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> Are you really going to go to every thread I posted in and make some dumb comment?
> 
> Did I get you THAT mad when you couldn't refute what I said?
> 
> How childish are you??





No I'm not mad

BS will be called out no matter where you post it


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## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

It's funny that I can see you searching all my posts and then you reply with some type of idiotic childish remark.

Of course you can take a picture with the placement tool in the wall, have you ever heard of a cut-away?? Of course you did, but you would rather just act like a child.

It must have REALLY hurt when I put you in your place... What else would make you spend so much time searching out my posts...


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> It's funny that I can see you searching all my posts and then you reply with some type of idiotic childish remark.
> 
> Of course you can take a picture with the placement tool in the wall, have you ever heard of a cut-away?? Of course you did, but you would rather just act like a child.
> 
> It must have REALLY hurt when I put you in your place... What else would make you spend so much time searching out my posts...





you're wrong. I can't be hurt


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## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

Exactly the reply I expected. Another stupid statement to cover your insecurities.

A real man would admit he was wrong and apologize for his mistake.

I see what type of weasel you are...


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

They have their place on some jobs. I usually try not to use them. I agree they can be a life saver but at the same time they can do a lot of damage.


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## srlaws (May 27, 2010)

I use them as a last resort when I exhaust all other ideas, but I will admit even with experience yesterday from an attic I had a bit walk through the sheet rock into the living room. Good thing the owner was painting that room later so it was an easy inexpensive fix.

sl


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

srlaws said:


> I use them as a last resort when I exhaust all other ideas, but I will admit even with experience yesterday from an attic I had a bit walk through the sheet rock into the living room. Good thing the owner was painting that room later so it was an easy inexpensive fix.
> 
> sl


Just change to wiremold at that point... :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BlueBox said:


> I've heard a lot of horror stories about drilling with long bits (ship auger bits), I had one big accident myself in which I found the other end of the bit on the outside of the house
> 
> However, I still use them sometimes in situations in which I feel they are pretty safe. Does anyone else use a long flexible bit to drill from a receptacle cutout down thru the bottom plate into the basement? I figure it's only going thru the 2X4 and the plywood floor so there isn't much chance for it to come out in a bad place :whistling2:
> 
> Do you still use long bits for this or have you swore them off completely?


Nope, never for a receptacle with access below. But I have used 6' and 4' long 1/4" bits for drilling blind through floor joists for ceiling lights/ fans and recessed. So far so good.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I've used the long bits many times. I've had many successes and some disasters with them. I still use when the situation warrants.

BTW. I'm loving the McClary- BluBox battle. :thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I've used the long bits many times. I've had many successes and some disasters with them. I still use when the situation warrants.
> 
> BTW. I'm loving the McClary- BluBox battle. :thumbup:


Bluebox got retired today, so there is a need for a new player


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Bluebox got retired today, so there is a need for a new player


 
He was sent back to the big box store in the sky...:thumbsup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Can we confirm he was a "troll" under an assumed name?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Nope, never for a receptacle with access below. But I have used 6' and 4' long 1/4" bits for drilling blind through floor joists for ceiling lights/ fans and recessed. So far so good.


So what do you do, drill up?
I use them for low recep's often; I saw you use them for inaccessible ceilings between floors, etc.: dangerous stuff. I came close twice on a previous job to hitting circuits/switch legs going across a joist. My nightmare would be hitting plumbing. :blink:


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## jbrookers (Dec 7, 2008)

We use them everyday for installing recessed lightings in ceilings with no holes and no patching. Most of our experienced guys carry at least two or three types plus extenders on their trucks. When I ran calls I used one every day. 


We've been in business over ten years and have installed thousands of cans (and lots of other stuff) with any holes or patching. We've never had any major problems (knock on wood). We've had a couple accidents here and there but we just apologize to the customer and hire a professional floor guy, painter, etc. to fix it and move on. 

That being said, it takes a real skill to use the long bits and most of our accidents have come from helpers who were not ready.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Why would one leave that kind of drilling to the helper? Our job is to train them not to use them as scapegoats.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

jbrookers said:


> We use them everyday for installing recessed lightings in ceilings with no holes and no patching. Most of our experienced guys carry at least two or three types plus extenders on their trucks. When I ran calls I used one every day.
> 
> 
> We've been in business over ten years and have installed thousands of cans (and lots of other stuff) with any holes or patching. We've never had any major problems (knock on wood). We've had a couple accidents here and there but we just apologize to the customer and hire a professional floor guy, painter, etc. to fix it and move on.
> ...


When drilling blind through the joists, have you ever cut into a romex cable stapled to the side of the joist? 

That seems like it could be a very expensive and labor intensive repair, unless the customer is ok with a pair of blank plates on the ceiling.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> So what do you do, drill up?
> I use them for low recep's often; I saw you use them for inaccessible ceilings between floors, etc.: dangerous stuff. I came close twice on a previous job to hitting circuits/switch legs going across a joist. My nightmare would be hitting plumbing. :blink:


I use Irwin "spade" bits and a cordless drill.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I use the irwine spade bits as well, I usually charge for a long 7/8" irwin bit on any job I have to drill more than a few holes. I also have 4 of the irwin long extentions those come in handy too.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

You prefer spade bits over an auger bit?

I get the most use out of my 7/8" 6" long Irwin Auger.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Interlock said:


> You prefer spade bits over an auger bit?
> 
> I get the most use out of my 7/8" 6" long Irwin Auger.


Just in remodel work, I don't bring the hole hawg in attics, it's easier to drill with a spade bit on high speed with a cordless. In a remodel or a new stick building hole hawg all the way.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I use a 6" greenlee nail biter 7/8" or a 1" in my dewalt CORDLESS. Put it on low speed (#1) and it will drill thru anything. The greenlee nail biters were the only bits that would drill thru the boards in the 2 houses I did that were built in the 1890's. Compared to the greenlees the irwins are junk.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> Just in remodel work, I don't bring the hole hawg in attics, it's easier to drill with a spade bit on high speed with a cordless. In a remodel or a new stick building hole hawg all the way.


I use the auger bit right in my cordless. It drills easier and lasts longer than spade bits, in my experience.



jwjrw said:


> I use a 6" greenlee nail biter 7/8" or a 1" in my dewalt. Put it on low speed (#1) and it will drill thru anything. The greenlee nail biters were the only bits that would drill thru the boards in the 2 houses I did that were built in the 1890's. Compared to the greenlees the irwins are junk.


where do you buy the Greenlee naileaters? The Irwins I have used seemed pretty good, but I would like to try the Greenlee, I just never see them being sold.


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## vos (Apr 1, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I use Irwin "spade" bits and a cordless drill.


the ones with a hex shaft work grate in impact drivers


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

vos said:


> the ones with a hex shaft work grate in impact drivers


Does that really work well? I know that the 1/4" hex shaft would lock right into an impact guns collet, but I didn't think an impact gun would work properly with a spade bit.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I use Irwin "spade" bits and a cordless drill.


Same here..best part is the extensions that clip on to the end of the bit.

I have used (4) of these to drill blind through ceiling joists.

First use a scanner to check for wires and copper pipes.


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## vos (Apr 1, 2010)

Interlock said:


> Does that really work well? I know that the 1/4" hex shaft would lock right into an impact guns collet, but I didn't think an impact gun would work properly with a spade bit.


Yea its speed is faster it tacks less time imo to use an impact driver vs. a drill.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

vos said:


> Yea its speed is faster it tacks less time imo to use an impact driver vs. a drill.


I was thinking that the impacting of the gun would interfere with the drilling. I'll give it a shot next time :thumbsup:


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Same here..best part is the extensions that clip on to the end of the bit.
> 
> I have used (4) of these to drill blind through ceiling joists.
> 
> First use a scanner to check for wires and copper pipes.


What type of scanner do you use that will detect wires that are stapled to the joists 4-9 inches above the ceiling?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Interlock said:


> I use the auger bit right in my cordless. It drills easier and lasts longer than spade bits, in my experience.
> 
> 
> where do you buy the Greenlee naileaters? The Irwins I have used seemed pretty good, but I would like to try the Greenlee, I just never see them being sold.


 
I tried all the bits I had on the wood in that house. The ones I had were not old and worked great on every other job. Other than the Ideal bit I have everything are now greenlee naileater2's.

I get them at HD supply, off ebay and another supply house here carrys them. They do tear some nails up. And they are Naileater 2's. They are pricey I think $26.00 for a 6". 

I also have an Ideal 18 inch(1") bit that I'm impressed with. Its a solid black bit and I don't remember the model or name.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

If im doing a few holes Ill use what ever is handy, But if I have to rip through douglas fur all day i use greenlee nail eaters. They seem to work well as long as you dont hit to many nails. And for the long bits I use what ever is at the Depot and a Dewault hole hog. I like the lightolier hole saw kit with dust guard for reccessed lighting.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Interlock said:


> I use the auger bit right in my cordless. It drills easier and lasts longer than spade bits, in my experience.
> 
> 
> where do you buy the Greenlee naileaters? The Irwins I have used seemed pretty good, but I would like to try the Greenlee, I just never see them being sold.


 
Our supply house has the "Ideal" nail biters, best augers I have used!!!


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

76nemo said:


> Our supply house has the "Ideal" nail biters, best augers I have used!!!


 I dont think I ever used Ideals.....I should try them.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

captkirk said:


> I dont think I ever used Ideals.....I should try them.


 
That 18" long 1" Ideal is a nailbiter. It is a good bit as well. It will try to pull you thru the hole. You have to be ready for it when it first breaks thru.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

So I just had a brain storm... stand back:

I've only used a flex bit a few times, and I always sweated when I did, just because I couldn't be sure where the heck it was going.

So, what about taking a Fox-and-Hound toner, and every time you punch through a joist/blocking inside the wall, hook the Fox to the chuck-end of the bit, and use the Hound to try and follow the drilling-end. Just like the guys who do directional boring.

Heck, if you were really slick with the sensitivity adjustment on the Hound, you might even be able to tell if the thing is moving closer or further away from a wall/ceiling face. :clap:

What do ya'll think? I'd like to try it, but I don't foresee myself using one of these bits in the near future.

-John


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Same here..best part is the extensions that clip on to the end of the bit.
> 
> I have used (4) of these to drill blind through ceiling joists.
> 
> First use a scanner to check for wires and copper pipes.


Those extenders come in handy. I've done what you do more than once!

Today I f'ed up pretty good. I had the long extender out but it still couldn't get to where I was going so I took out the 4' auger bit, started drilling and sure enough came outside the opposite wall and through the ceiling in the opposite room.  Ooops. :laughing: Room was used for storage and it wasn't a big deal this time. The HO's understood and told me not to worry about it. We closed up shop early and went to Famous Dave's BBQ for lunch.


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## Interlock (Jul 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I took out the 4' auger bit, started drilling and sure enough came outside the opposite wall and through the ceiling in the opposite room.


Where were you aiming to drill thru? The top plate into the attic?


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