# Requirements for dining receptacles



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

They do not enforce that here so I cannot answer correctly, but is seems the dinning room needs a dedicated SABC to satisfy code.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Forgot to add, it can come from the SABC wired from the kitchen. Here we are only allowed 3 openings per SABC. So in my case I would need to wire an additional SBAC circuit for the dining room if it were enforced. Circuit must be rated for 20 amps.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

*210.52(B) Small Appliances.*
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, *dining room*, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.........


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## ZBat910 (Aug 4, 2014)

To me, that is very misleading. In my installation the dining room is in an open layout beside the kitchen. I have three home runs on 12 wire in that kitchen and only 3 receptacles to worry with in the dining room. I see that it mentions the dining room but the referrals mentioned in that article govern spacing of receptacles and also the simple fact that you have to have two separate circuits in the kitchen. The inspector made a note saying "receptacles in a dining must be 20 amperes." Not once have I read that. It is just misleading to me, in a general sense i kind of understand it from that article but when you get down to it, it is pretty specific using words such as countertops and what not. No countertops are around those dining room receps. I fixed it the way he wanted, I just wish there was a more detailed explanation.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Ken quoted the article. I don't understand what part of "dining room" is confusing you ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

How can it be 'misleading'? It states _very clearly_ the receptacles in the dining room must be on a 20a SABC.

To make it more clear, just take out the parts of the Article that do not apply to the installation:
*
210.52(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served.* In the ....... dining room,.......... the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets.........


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## ZBat910 (Aug 4, 2014)

I do understand in a general sense. 210.11 c 1 mentions countertop surfaces must have two circuits. I guess I am getting confused where it directs you to a couple more articles that are more specific that my installation. It kind of, to me, sounds like you have to use the branch outlets from the kitchen to go to the dining room, instead of having a separate home run for the dining. Reason I say that is due to it mentioning countertop surfaces when there are no countertops in the dining area. Maybe I've just had a long day, but I am just trying to be clear. Might be over thinking it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

You CAN use one or both of the two minimum SABC to feed the dining room. OR you can install a 3rd (or even 4th and 5th if you're filthy rich) SABC for the DR.

Unless there's a local amendment to the contrary, 2 SABCs is all the NEC requires. SABCs are commonly misunderstood as 'countertop' circuits and must only serve the c-tops. They are not so restricted.


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## ZBat910 (Aug 4, 2014)

Thanks. That was my issue. I am definitely not a "seasoned" electrician but I am trying to learn. I can read plain English and understand that it says dining room, just got caught up being a little too specific I think with the countertop deal. I ran a new 12 home run anyways so problem resolved!


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## ZBat910 (Aug 4, 2014)

While we are at it, I want to study to take my nc exam for next year. Have states been adopting the 2014 nec? I have even heard the 2011 is supposed to take us until the end of 2019. Is this false? I don't really get involved with that kind of stuff but I really just want to know if I should buy a 2011 or 2014 nec for studying purposes.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

ZBat, is this the first time this has been brought up to you by an inspector??? This has been a code forever and really is Electric 101 stuff. 
Did no one ever explain 210.52 to you?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Keep in mind that as the NEC is adopted for Code enforcement by thousands of AHJs around the world, it basically is a legal document. As such, it must be written so that it leaves the intent of a given requirement as obvious as possible.

Towards that end, it tends to read more like legalese (or, '_The King's English_') rather than the vernacular English we use every day.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

ZBat910 said:


> While we are at it, I want to study to take my nc exam for next year. Have states been adopting the 2014 nec? I have even heard the 2011 is supposed to take us until the end of 2019. Is this false? *I don't really get involved with that kind of stuff* but I really just want to know if I should buy a 2011 or 2014 nec for studying purposes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


I don't get it. Are you saying you don't get involved with the code??


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Here: http://www.mikeholt.com/necadoptionlist.php

It looks like 2011 for the time being.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

ZBat910 said:


> While we are at it, I want to study to take my nc exam for next year. Have states been adopting the 2014 nec? I have even heard the 2011 is supposed to take us until the end of 2019. Is this false? I don't really get involved with that kind of stuff but I really just want to know if I should buy a 2011 or 2014 nec for studying purposes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com



If you want to make a career out of this, you'd better accept the fact that you will not only need to learn the NEC, but you'll need to keep up on when your state adopts a new version.


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## ZBat910 (Aug 4, 2014)

Haha I see how that makes me sound ignorant. I meant as in I don't get involved with looking up what state has adopted what code book or anything of the sort. The code is essential but I haven't kept up with what nc is doing and I can't find info on what code book they are still using, all I know is what I've heard and that it is a mess in nc. The code enforcement here has been pathetic all the way around for years. They are turning things around right now. I am a mechanical guy and electric is relatively new to me, my uncle who owns the business knows a bunch but he just throws me to the wolves and tells me to learn so here I am.


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## ZBat910 (Aug 4, 2014)

I want to learn the code and be very familiar. I just don't own a newer code book yet. Like I say though, I'm relatively new to electrical, i have a long way to go.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Good on you for wanting to learn, but all I can say is wow. There is NO WAY you should be working on your own yet. Your uncle is quite foolish if it is his business.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Knowing what AHJ's outside your trade area have adopted is really not much help, and may end up confusing you. So I don't bother either.

But a simple phone call to an inspector will provide you with what edition is current, as well as any amendments.


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## ZBat910 (Aug 4, 2014)

Around my area that is how people learn. Although I don't have a ton of experience under my belt, I can install the entire wiring process and make it very nice. He comes by and offers some guidance but I actually enjoy being taught this way, when you make mistakes you are less likely to make them again. We are a small company doing small residential homes. We would not be doing a large commercial project. He is trying to retire and I'm just trying to get the most experience I can and learn how to do things on your own.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

Wow...3...I thought we had it bad in NM, we are limited to 4 on the SABC
and 6 on dining room circuits.

Patrick



aftershockews said:


> Forgot to add, it can come from the SABC wired from the kitchen. Here we are only allowed 3 openings per SABC. So in my case I would need to wire an additional SBAC circuit for the dining room if it were enforced. Circuit must be rated for 20 amps.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

do yourself a favor and buy a copy of Holt's course and learn the entire NEC.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Think of all the mistakes the inspector isn't finding!!


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