# romex/conduit



## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Like night and day. Conduit is labor intensive, but does allow some finess in running circuits that NM doesn't allow.

Conduit tends to quench fire so it retards its spread while NM doesn't.

I guess the biggest difference (to me) is in the labor skills and costs.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

A well laid out conduit system allows for easy installation of additional circuits after the building is finished. Not so with NM.

There are times when an easy conduit run with multiple circuits can actually be faster than a bunch of NM. 

Rob.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Conduit in houses...

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I keep my tongue.


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

If romex is outlawed, how are you wiring houses? Conduit and MC? That would be time consuming and expensive.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

They use conduit.


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## Super_33 (Jan 12, 2008)

I've done conduit and romex in houses. If I had my choice I would use conduit. Sure romex works but I certainly wouldn't want it in my house. Taking an unskilled conduit bender and putting him/her in a conduit house will definately waste time in both the piping and pulling of the house. Once the skill is learned the conduit system is far superior and almost as fast as romex. It costs a bit more but so does any upgrades.

Now, why do people disagree with conduit in houses? How in your right mind can you say romex is better then conduit???? 2 skilled journeymen in a conduit 3000 sq. ft. house with no extras can have the rough completed in as low as 40 to 60 hours, perhaps not quite as low as romex but close enough for a much better quality elecrical system. Don't let your personal lack of conduit experience decide that conduit is a waste of time and money.

In my opinion, all romex should be outlawed in houses..... everywhere:thumbup:


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

I'd like to see some pics of a conduit house. It definitely keeps the drywallers from popping screws in the wire. I agree repairs could be alot easier. As far as conduit goes, I am slow, just don't do it that much.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

When I wired my own house about 12 years ago, I used a combination of EMT and NM. It's 3400 sq. ft. 2 story, with a 1700 sq. ft. garage. It's served with a 208/120 3PH 4W wye. Mainly because most of my shop equipment is 3PH. 

I ran 2- 3/4 EMT's from the panel on the wall that separates the house from the garage both directions on the outside wall of the house part. In each one are 9 ckts. 3 for recpt's, 3 for lighting, and 3 more for night lights. (Split recpts.) These are fed thru a contactor controlled by a photocell. They run things like table lamps, electric blankets, etc. Stuff you only want on at night. 

Another 3/4 EMT runs to the kitchen area under the floor (wood joists). Still another to the laundry room.

From these, I branched out with NM to anything that was difficult to pipe. 

Since I do mostly industrial work, I already had the EMT, and had to buy the NM. Looking back from here, even if I had to buy all of it, I likely would have done it the same way.

Rob.


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## 2leggedogwbrassballs (Feb 10, 2008)

super 33 are you 134? thanks for all of the input guys, my printer was actually screwed up the morning it was due so now its late but i have another day to add anything so keep the comments coming.. and as far as my personal opinion, i definately firmly believe that romex should be done away with for anything with the exception of temp lighting on a jobsite.. sure beinding conduit is hard for anyone at first, but i think im getting pretty good at it.. just aced my 3 and 4 bend saddle quiz


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

"Two skilled journeymen" versus two employees "roping" a house in about one and a half days? Big difference.

I agree that commercial methods (conduit and MC) are better in the long run, but I don't think it is all that practical for residential. I think "Romex" is fine for the application.

I do think using firestop on sill and top-plate penetrations is a good idea, but the fire people say it doesn't make any difference in the real-world of residential fires. Based on the few I've seen, I can't disagree, but I still think it might help a little.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

waco said:


> I do think using firestop on sill and top-plate penetrations is a good idea, but the fire people say it doesn't make any difference in the real-world of residential fires. Based on the few I've seen, I can't disagree, but I still think it might help a little.


It won't help unless you treat *all* the paths a fire could take. Stairways, plumbing chases and ductwork paths also need to be considered.


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## Matt (Feb 3, 2008)

I REALLY want to see a house with all the outlets and lights piped in at the rough stage. I have never seen or heard of such a thing untill now. Up here almost everything is able to be done with romex. Even in a Drop ceiling that is not a plenum ceiling we can use ROMEX (NEC doesn't allow it).

If anyone has a picture please post it here.....


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> 2 skilled journeymen in a conduit 3000 sq. ft. house with no extras can have the rough completed in as low as 40 to 60 hours,


 
When I started in the trade we (a journeyman and me, the apprentice) would rough in two 1500 sq ft track homes a day INCLUDING the service :thumbup: That is about 16 hours for 3K feet. NM is WAY faster.


There is no comparison between the two if you are talking dollars.


There is no comparision between the two if you are talking quality.






> It definitely keeps the drywallers from popping screws in the wire.


:no: Nope. Seen it and repaired it. Ive seen both pointers and self tappers run right thru conduit.


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## 5volts (Jan 11, 2008)

Benefits of EMT
1. It is harder to run a nail, screw, sawzall through the pipe than romex, and it is more liklely that you will know if you have hit something.
2. It is easier for the homewoner or future electrician to add circuits.

However if installed properly romex will probbly out live the Homeowner anyway. I feel Conduit overall is not practical for residential, Whos paying? Do you really want that bid? Is the customer loaded? Anyway Im from california most people don't live in the same house for more then five years anyway. Romex works fine in my house.


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

I am in local 134 and I have to wonder, to what advantage is this paper? Romex is not an inherently menacing system as 134 would have you believe. Like many have said before, each has its advantages and drawbacks. I know for a fact that Brian John thinks EMT in houses is pure folly. Romex is cheaper and faster but more prone to damage and harder to rework later. Conduit is more expensive, but harder to damage and really easy to rework circuits. When I refer to cost, I refer also to cost of install. Speaking of install: I used to flat houses with EMT and we were expected to run about 800 feet per day. I know also that a rope rocket could smoke that tally no problem. 

Bottom line: I wouldn't run romex in my house, you won't run EMT. One is better, one is just fine.


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## 2leggedogwbrassballs (Feb 10, 2008)

well yes, i think that they want us to be very biased, coming from the union view conduit involves much more work and many more man hours which equals more money in our pockets.. like you said though, i would personally prefer a metallic raceway in my own house as well


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

I think it also has to do with the safety of the install. In the long term over the course of many years and hundreds of picture hangings, I think conduit will definitely fare better. It's also nice that conduit installs gets us out of some of the AFCI installs, but you can learn that in code class. 

Since I live in the city I don't have to choose conduit. It's already there.


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## wire_twister (Feb 14, 2008)

around here all residential is roped in, do I like it? NO pipe would be much better. Unfortunataly there is no way to win a resi. bid using pipe. Last new construction home I bid on I did not get thankfully, the general wanted to pay $2.25 sqft including materials. Would you run pipe in a 1600ft house for $3600.00 and supply everything?


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

wire_twister said:


> around here all residential is roped in, do I like it? NO pipe would be much better. Unfortunataly there is no way to win a resi. bid using pipe. Last new construction home I bid on I did not get thankfully, the general wanted to pay $2.25 sqft including materials. Would you run pipe in a 1600ft house for $3600.00 and supply everything?


 
Shootfire! I wouldn't even wire a 1600' house with romex for $3600. Around here, 12-2 costs at least $.28/ft. That's about $500 just for the 12-2.


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## stillirnin (Jan 24, 2008)

I have only done electrical installs in the factory type setting, love running emt, love the challenge of each situation to try and get from start to end of run but I just cant picture how some runs in a house would be accomplished like recepts around a room when studs and joists are16" o c Its intriguing though would love to see some pics on an install ,does anyone have some available


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

goose134 said:


> It's also nice that conduit installs gets us out of some of the AFCI installs, but you can learn that in code class.



No, it doesn't. It permits you to install a AFCI device at the first outlet. According to the instructor of the '08 NEC seminar I just took, no such device exists, and no manufacturer is working on one.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I've never seen residential conduit used, but I guess individual rooms might be wired with MC from a central "bus" much like strip malls are done now. Of course, MC doesn't alleviate the possibility of damage to conductors, so maybe MC can't be used where NMC can't be used?

I have run EMT throughout commercial construction, using "four-squares" at the top plates and dropping EMT down to receptacles and switches. Conduit is very labor intensive. No way around that.


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## stillirnin (Jan 24, 2008)

Ok so you would have to use a lot of boxes and lots of vertical runs not many horiz ?


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## stillirnin (Jan 24, 2008)

like I said I love to fab up emt runs but dont see it all that practical for rez work I live in OH 44yrs and have nt seen it yet


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## kendu (Feb 15, 2008)

*conduit*

conduit is much safer.http://www.myjunctionbox.com


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Here is a shot of a bend I posted in another forum. It shows box to box around an inside corner without destroying the studs:










Just 1/2" EMT, 1 1/4 spade bit and a couple of offsets. I'm telling you, experienced resi guys can install EMT in houses at a rate that would amaze you. As a second year apprentice, I was running around 500-600 feet a day and I was let go.







nnnn


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## stillirnin (Jan 24, 2008)

Im starting to see how it would be done I guess theres ways around every thing


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> No, it doesn't. It permits you to install a AFCI device at the first outlet. According to the instructor of the '08 NEC seminar I just took, no such device exists, and no manufacturer is working on one.


They do exist.



---It's also nice that conduit installs gets us out of some of the AFCI installs---

This will for the smokes in the bed rooms, Just remember metalic conduit or AC, not MC. go figure.

Who wants to pipe just the smokes? I dislike this idea of all the AFCI stuff, But, I just pass it on to the consumer.

Bring your code book so when they bitch you have back up.:whistling2:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

goose134 said:


> Here is a shot of a bend I posted in another forum. It shows box to box around an inside corner without destroying the studs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man thats gotta SUCK!!!!!!!!
You must spend more on fittings than on wire!!!

But just think, your closer to being a plumber (only smarter).... 
"You want it where?"... "Fine, Tear down that wall and we will be more than happy to put it there"


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Matt said:


> I REALLY want to see a house with all the outlets and lights piped in at the rough stage. I have never seen or heard of such a thing untill now. Up here almost everything is able to be done with romex. Even in a Drop ceiling that is not a plenum ceiling we can use ROMEX (NEC doesn't allow it).
> 
> If anyone has a picture please post it here.....


 
I, too, would like to see a conduit house after rough in. Are you guys talking emt? What about non-metallic flexible conduit? I personally like bending pipe but can't imagine getting to some of those places in a house with emt.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> No, it doesn't. It permits you to install a AFCI device at the first outlet. According to the instructor of the '08 NEC seminar I just took, no such device exists, and no manufacturer is working on one.


One does exist:http://jyjz.en.alibaba.com/product/50042661/50193632/Receptacles/GFCI_Receptacle.html

But being made in China, and having no UL listing, doesn't exactly give me that warm and fuzzy feeling.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

goose134 said:


> Here is a shot of a bend I posted in another forum. It shows box to box around an inside corner without destroying the studs:
> 
> 
> Just 1/2" EMT, 1 1/4 spade bit and a couple of offsets. I'm telling you, experienced resi guys can install EMT in houses at a rate that would amaze you. As a second year apprentice, I was running around 500-600 feet a day and I was let go.


That HAD to be drilled BEFORE the walls went up.

BTW, where's the straps?


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## stillirnin (Jan 24, 2008)

whats the lead content in that afi ???????????????/:001_huh:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

stillirnin said:


> whats the lead content in that afi ???????????????/:001_huh:


I would tell you, but the lead I got in my system when I installed them made my... um....err.... what's that thing that you have in your head that allows you to recall stuff?

Oh, yea, right! "Memory." Yea, that lead made my.. um.... err...





What were we talking about? :jester:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

IMO
EMT is always better than NM, but all those connectors and couplings, what happens later on if one or two seperate, and a ground conductor gets used for something else by some hack to lazy to pull another( it does happen), the difference in potential created could be more dangerous than any situation created by romex. Can emt really be installed in wood studs without removing more than 1/3 of wood (width wise) This could really degrade a structure.
Again emt is better, but at what risk, and at what cost?


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## Super_33 (Jan 12, 2008)

The average piping speed of a journeyman is around 8 or 900 feet of pipe in a day. That's on the second floor of a house where most is piped up and overhead. You won't get as much up on the first floor because it's more piece work and more precision bending. In a standard 3000 square foot house the entire first floor including 2 car garage should be piped in under a day, maybe 6 to 8 hours. Basement should take about a day to pipe, that's including homeruns, ties, and basment lighting. This is based on your typical residential journeyman. There are faster guys who will average 1000' to 1200' a day and on occasion pipe 1600' in one day. 

To pull, splice and ring that same house will take another day, including trimming the panel. Now let's add a whole other day for misc work like drilling it, boxing it, and moving material around and crap like that. Now we're at 40 hours to drill, box, pipe, pull, splice and ring.

The biggest problem with EMT in residential is that people don't understand it if they don't learn it. So they don't want to have anything to do with it because they're satisfied with what they already know. Unfortunately there's no reason to change if the code is satisfied as well.


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

> That HAD to be drilled BEFORE the walls went up.
> 
> BTW, where's the straps?


Nope, this is my basement bathroom. All the walls were put up in the 70's. I drilled them this week. If you look at the stud closest to the camera you'll see a nail strap in the hole where the 90 goes through. The extra coupling near the first box didn't need to be there, I was just using scraps lying around.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> One does exist:http://jyjz.en.alibaba.com/product/50042661/50193632/Receptacles/GFCI_Receptacle.html
> 
> But being made in China, and having no UL listing, doesn't exactly give me that warm and fuzzy feeling.


I stand corrected - but there is still no relief from AFCI protection. Only the wire from the panel to 1st outlet.

Of course, as far as I am concerned, a device without a UL listing is worthless. Anyone ever seen one from a reputable manufacturer?


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

leland said:


> They do exist.
> 
> 
> 
> ---It's also nice that conduit installs gets us out of some of the AFCI installs---


Exactly what AFCI installs does this get you out of?


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## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

I run mostly conduit since I'm in northern IL. The benefit of NM is cost, pure and simple. The only time I prefer flexible wiring methods a lot is when I need to move a switch bracket box 6" to the side. You can usually flex wire that much, but with EMT it's quite a project.

Dave


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Interesting picture of EMT and stud wall. I wonder, if the blockers are right in line with the conduit or if it is a three stud corner or if the last stud is four inches from the corner, is it still so easy to drill and install EMT?

I respect the skill of those who have to use EMT in residential, but I see no reason for it.


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## john salyards (Feb 16, 2008)

I really want to see the finished rough of a piped house i cant even imagine. I guess you would have to notch all the studs or i guess do up and overs. then sw. legs pwr jumpers .... or i guess maybe sw loops from spider boxes ...... Im gonna have to think about that for a while ...wow sounds like a lot of work... been wiring houses for 12 years never had problem adding or changing crkts that would have been so much easier in pipe.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> No, it doesn't. It permits you to install a AFCI device at the first outlet. According to the instructor of the '08 NEC seminar I just took, no such device exists, and no manufacturer is working on one.


Actually, you also have to locate the 1st outlet within 6 feet of the branch circuit overcurrent device, as measured along the conductors. (210.12(B), exception (a)) As well as the metal conduit or cable with metallic sheath.

Hardly seems worth it.

Edit to add - The above answer is based on the '05 NEC. The '08 will allow a AFCI device at the 1st outlet, no length restriction.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

wire_twister said:


> around here all residential is roped in, do I like it? NO pipe would be much better. Unfortunataly there is no way to win a resi. bid using pipe. Last new construction home I bid on I did not get thankfully, the general wanted to pay $2.25 sqft including materials. Would you run pipe in a 1600ft house for $3600.00 and supply everything?


There'd be a way to win the bid if all contractors were bidding the job using EMT.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

im doin a 80 unit condo remodel (all emt) for all the conduit lovers i have one thing to tell you. it is only galvanized on the outside!! 30 year old conduit is like trying to pull a wire through a razor wire tunnel. romex has never done me like that. besides have you ever tried to fish a piece of conduit through a wall with fire blocking, i think conduit has its place but i also think romex has a place too. if it aint broke dont try to fix it, outlawing romex style wiring is ludicrous and irresponsible for any e/c to advocate simply because of price alone. I/E: bobs building a house $15,000 for romex or $25,000 for pipe,if it is mandated pipe, bob might not be able to afford this (NOBODY wins here) the cost allways goes back to the consumer...the code has allready put enough changes like combo afci,pool bonding,etc.all for saftey but it does hurt EVERYBODY in this type of economy,especially when you bid against 20folks for the same jobs.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

All I have to say it's absolutely nuts to use conduit in a wooden single family structure. I live in the area of hacked knob and tube along with truly disturbing installs but there are very few residential fires attributed to the wiring. If you look at cost versus safety there is no way you would want to run conduit in a house. I'm completely comfortable living in a house wired in NM with #14 and #12 branch circuits using stab back devices for the #14 circuits.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

It stikes me that the reason behind the assignment of writing this paper has more to do in formulating and shaping the mind of the students to be able to answer to the public the reason for Chicago area residential wiring standards, than anything else. In effect it is political dogma. If wiring safety is the real issue, then how come the houses in that area are not wired with galvanized rigid conduit, which is a far superior method of protection of the conductors from physical damage than either emt or romex is. Same argument.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

2leggedogwbrassballs said:


> hey everyone, a bit on my backround, im in my 6th week of my first year apprentice of* ibew local 134..* we have midterms coming up and a whole lot of homework right now. one of my projects is to write a paper for conduit bending class on romex vs. conduit. basically being a chicago local where romex is outlawed,* i need to swy my opinion to how horrible romex is,* but i would love to hear both sides of everyones opinions and also any personal stories about each.. i have very very limited experience in the field and i would like to impress them so thank you very much in advance...
> 
> 
> ROMEX vs. CONDUIT(EMT) PROS, CONS, DIFFERENCES, SIMILARITIES, ANY PERSONAL SUGGESTIONS, STORIES, INFORMATION?????
> ...


Reasons non metallic sheathed cable is superior to emt for dwelling wiring:

Non metallic cable (hereafter reffered to as "romex" for brevity of typing) doesn't rust, emt does. A type of non mettalic cable "UF" can be buried directly in soil but emt cannot as it will shortly degrade into a pile of rust. So when you are wiring a dwellings auxillary unattached shack out in the back yard designed to house your Rod Blagojevich in







you be better served running a circuit of buried uf cable than you would burying a run of emt into the ground.

Emt requires that pit mines be dug into the ground which is harmful to mother earth, and furthermore, coal must be strip mined and then transported to the smelting factory to burn and release bad greenhouse gas into the atmosphere as part of the process of turning iron into steel for making the emt conduit. Plastic sheathing on the other hand, requires oil which the good brilliant folks over at Southwire mine from environmentally save areas to drill such as Saudi Arabia or Alaska's north slope where there are no forests of trees to destroy. They only have to stick a two foot tube into the ground to get that beautiful yellow and orange colored sheath out , instead of scarring miles of pristine Kentucky forested lands. 

These are only two of the many many reasons romex is far superior a wiring method than emt for houses, but right now I am afraid I do not have the time to document any more for you as I am off to perform a safer and better installation in a house today using romex cable.


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## Conduit Phil (Nov 19, 2009)

I piped one of the walls of my garage. Lots of couplings and short pieces were needed. Tore down the drywall and replaced with plywood.


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Reasons non metallic sheathed cable is superior to emt for dwelling wiring:
> 
> Non metallic cable (hereafter reffered to as "romex" for brevity of typing) doesn't rust, emt does. A type of non mettalic cable "UF" can be buried directly in soil but emt cannot as it will shortly degrade into a pile of rust. So when you are wiring a dwellings auxillary unattached shack out in the back yard designed to house your Rod Blagojevich in
> 
> ...


 
Too much Maui Wowie for you


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

crazymurph said:


> Too much Maui Wowie for you


Funny, I was thinking not enough....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Just lighthearted poke ery at the way Chicago pretends it is for safety that houses get wired with emt. Of course it is better and safer. But Chicago requires it because it is good for local 134 and the other local locals. That is why the young man is turning in his paper. Indoctrination. Has nothing to do with the big fire Mrs O'arsonist's cow started. Has nothing to do with how safe romex is. Has everything to do with how much more labor conduit installation requires. I like the way Chicago requires it, but be honest about it, its all about the revenue.

And no, I no smokey the Maui Wowie....... By the way, thats a mainland term. We call it pakalolo.


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## Rjelliott3 (Nov 26, 2011)

*Rjelliott3*

I'm a union havc journeyman from chicago. IMO, dollarwise, is the only true comparison. Otherwise, emt is the only way to go. That is of course if you care at all about safety. People overload conductors all the time. Yes, of course you should know how to not overload a circuit to begin with if you're dealing with electric, but at least with emt, you're at least hedging your bets. I can't tell you how many times I have cut into a wall where I felt I was cutting into a conduit and stop immediately. If it had been Romex forget it. HOPEFULLy the breaker would trip. If not, well we know what happens then. Conduit is a pain in the ass in residential, but it is the right way to do it. Period!! I would never run Romex or bx in my own home.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I'd write an essay for you but it might get you kicked out of the union :laughing: 

Although a conduit system is a far *safer* installation, it's not _really_ necessary. The Chicago EMT code was obviously written for the labor unions benefit. Anyone with an objective viewpoint can see that.

I never criticize the installation method, only the obvious reasons for the legislation.



> I can't tell you how many times I have cut into a wall where I felt I was cutting into a conduit and stop immediately.


Uhhhh....if you cut blindly into a wall, that is YOUR fault.



And, don't resuscitate old posts !!! You suckered me in to it.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

tell it to Mrs Oleary's cow. this thread has been Cletis since 2008, sheesh.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'd like to see some pics of a conduit house. It definitely keeps the drywallers from popping screws in the wire. I agree repairs could be alot easier. As far as conduit goes, I am slow, just don't do it that much.


In south FL, it was not until the early 1980's that NM was allowed. Residential included.



Matt said:


> I REALLY want to see a house with all the outlets and lights piped in at the rough stage.






Super_33 said:


> That's on the second floor of a house where most is piped up and overhead.
> The biggest problem with EMT in residential is that people don't understand it if they don't learn it. So they don't want to have anything to do with it because they're satisfied with what they already know.


Up and over. I got called everything in the book because i use that method every chance I get. I believe the extra material cost is nothing compared to the reduced labor cost. I always use the up and over method every single time I can. Fast and easy.



john salyards said:


> I really want to see the finished rough of a piped house i cant even imagine. I guess you would have to notch all the studs or i guess do up and overs. then sw. legs pwr jumpers .... or i guess maybe sw loops from spider boxes ...... Im gonna have to think about that for a while ...wow sounds like a lot of work... been wiring houses for 12 years never had problem adding or changing crkts that would have been so much easier in pipe.


If the house is going to be piped, why use wood? We were using metal studs back as far as I can remember. Up and over is the key. A stub punch makes it go even faster.




Conduit Phil said:


> I piped one of the walls of my garage. Lots of couplings and short pieces were needed. Tore down the drywall and replaced with plywood.


I don't get it? Seems like alot of pipe to me for one box?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Rjelliott3 said:


> I'm a union havc journeyman from chicago. IMO, dollarwise, is the only true comparison. Otherwise, emt is the only way to go. *That is of course if you care at all about safety*. People overload conductors all the time. Yes, of course you should know how to not overload a circuit to begin with if you're dealing with electric, but at least with emt, you're at least hedging your bets. I can't tell you how many times I have cut into a wall where I felt I was cutting into a conduit and stop immediately. If it had been Romex forget it. HOPEFULLy the breaker would trip. If not, well we know what happens then. Conduit is a pain in the ass in residential, *but it is the right way to do it*. Period!! I would never run Romex or bx in my own home.


Typical twisted view from someone in Chicago land. 
I find you comment about safety above ignorant at best and bordering on offensive. In other words B-S!

And it is NOT the "right" way to do it, it's just _one_ way to do it.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Super_33 said:


> I've done conduit and romex in houses. If I had my choice I would use conduit. Sure romex works but I certainly wouldn't want it in my house. Taking an unskilled conduit bender and putting him/her in a conduit house will definately waste time in both the piping and pulling of the house. Once the skill is learned the conduit system is far superior and* almost as fast as romex.* It costs a bit more but so does any upgrades.
> 
> Now, why do people disagree with conduit in houses? How in your right mind can you say romex is better then conduit???? 2 skilled journeymen in a conduit 3000 sq. ft. house with no extras can have the rough completed in as low as 40 to 60 hours, perhaps not quite as low as romex but close enough for a much better quality elecrical system. Don't let your personal lack of conduit experience decide that conduit is a waste of time and money.
> 
> In my opinion, all romex should be outlawed in houses..... everywhere:thumbup:




:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Super_33 said:


> In my opinion, all romex should be outlawed in houses..... everywhere:thumbup:


Don't let your personal lack of experience decide that NM is not a fine product for wood framed homes.:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Don't let your personal lack of experience decide that NM is not a fine product for wood framed homes.:thumbsup:


It's also proven to be a fine product for concrete and steel commercial buildings too, but some people are just too scared to even comprehend that. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> It's also proven to be a fine product for concrete and steel commercial buildings too, but some people are just too scared to even comprehend that. :laughing:


I figured I would ease him into it, I did not want to cause a stroke.:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

wildleg said:


> this thread has been Cletis since 2008


Most definitely. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Rjelliott3 said:


> emt is the only way to go. That is of course if you care at all about safety. People overload conductors all the time. Yes, of course you should know how to not overload a circuit to begin with if you're dealing with electric, but at least with emt, you're at least hedging your bets. I can't tell you how many times I have cut into a wall where I felt I was cutting into a conduit and stop immediately. If it had been Romex forget it. HOPEFULLy the breaker would trip. If not, well we know what happens then. Conduit is a pain in the ass in residential, but it is the right way to do it. Period!! I would never run Romex or bx in my own home.


Yeah, because outside of Chicago homes are just bursting into flames left and right due to NM. Yet none of the insurance companies seem to have noticed it.

Lets face it, in Chicago it is not about safety it is about keeping the brothers working.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Lets face it, in Chicago it is not about safety it is about keeping the brothers working.


I agree. All the arguments about how fast an experienced crew can rough in EMT or it's easier to add circuits later just seem like window dressing to me when you consider that reality.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Except for the toxic deadly fumes caused by the nm casing


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Cletis said:


> Except for the toxic deadly fumes caused by the nm casing


Be quiet, troll.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Except for the toxic deadly fumes caused by the nm casing


Ummm .... ever watch a highrise wired with metal conduit when it is burning? I don't think the sheath on NM matters one little whip in the overall scheme of things. There is plenty enough of toxic smoke without it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> Ummm .... ever watch a highrise wired with metal conduit when it is burning? I don't think the sheath on NM matters one little whip in the overall scheme of things. There is plenty enough of toxic smoke without it.


:thumbsup:

One typical couch will produce more smoke then all the NM in the same home and the NM is spread out behind walls.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It's also proven to be a fine product for concrete and steel commercial buildings too, but some people are just too scared to even comprehend that. :laughing:





BBQ said:


> I figured I would ease him into it, I did not want to cause a stroke.:laughing:


:blink:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

EMT in houses is Cleboler.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> One typical couch will produce more smoke then all the NM in the same home and the NM is spread out behind walls.


Then why cant we run nm parallell ocassionally in return ducts already?


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

I've yet to hear a compelling instance of how emt is safer.... Cutting into walls blindly is idiotic . Can't see any reason to pipe a house because someone may someday cut into an nm cable. If circuits are protected with the appropriate size ocpd, the cable should last as long as a thhn in emt. In my mind emt is for physical protection. As someone else pointed out if fire was a real concern, why not change to all steel studs...etc....


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Peter D said:


> EMT in houses is Cleboler.


I bet there is a lot of lights not centered on islands and sinks all throughout the metro chicago area.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

talk to the cow.






(mrs oleary's cow)


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> I bet there is a lot of lights not centered on islands and sinks all throughout the metro chicago area.


Not sure, they don't secure the EMT so moving a fixture a bit must be easier.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> I bet there is a lot of lights not centered on islands and sinks all throughout the metro chicago area.


One thing they do that's odd is putting the outlets sideways.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Peter D said:


> One thing they do that's odd is putting the outlets sideways.


If they use a 4s and a mud ring I'd be okay with it, if they scabbing a blocker sideways and nailing up a box to that I'd say that that is pretty sad.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> If they use a 4s and a mud ring I'd be okay with it, if they scabbing a blocker sideways and nailing up a box to that I'd say that that is pretty sad.


Since it's all EMT the put the mudring on sideways. But the switches are still up and down. It looks really odd in a kitchen with the receptacles sideways and the switches up and down.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

kinda makes sense to have the receptacles all at the same height (sideways). never seen it tho


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Since it's all EMT the put the mudring on sideways. But the switches are still up and down. It looks really odd in a kitchen with the receptacles sideways and the switches up and down.


They run a good racket there in chicago, I am in the same boat though. There is no reason MC can't go in the walls were I am at, but its all emt with steel compression with no more than 4 conductors in a pipe. The amount of money wasted is disgusting.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> They run a good racket there in chicago, I am in the same boat though. There is no reason MC can't go in the walls were I am at, but its all emt with steel compression with no more than 4 conductors in a pipe. The amount of money wasted is disgusting.


Is that job at the college? It must be a state school, right?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Is that job at the college? It must be a state school, right?


You got it, all we do is bid on government work.


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

220/221 said:


> I'd write an essay for you but it might get you kicked out of the union :laughing:
> 
> Although a conduit system is a far *safer* installation, it's not _really_ necessary. The Chicago EMT code was obviously written for the labor unions benefit. Anyone with an objective viewpoint can see that.


It would benefit the electrical contractors as well, given that nowhere near as many homeowners are going to do their own conduit work. Sure some people will just go ahead and use 'Romex' illegally, but they know that it's a dead giveaway when they go to sell the house.


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, because outside of Chicago homes are just bursting into flames left and right due to NM. Yet none of the insurance companies seem to have noticed it.
> 
> Lets face it, in Chicago it is not about safety it is about keeping the brothers working.



chicago local 134:
Short Calls #People 3 Reg. & Available 1748

welll... when there isn't any work, there isn't any work.
i don't think it's making a ton of difference at the moment.

i've piped houses in thinwall.... did one out in riverside that
had a full basement, everything nippled down thru the plate,
and was all connected underneath. 1/2" nipples down, 3/4"
tying everything together underneath. it went pretty fast.

switch legs up into the ceiling in 1/2".

1/2" flex in walls. i wasn't building a swiss watch.... but
the owner was a good friend, and wanted the house piped.
about 5,500 sq. ft. house total... 

when i did my own garage, i did it in 1/2" aluminum flex,
stranded THHN, grounds pulled, 4SD boxes, and the ceiling
was done with steel studs, and 5/8" x 4' x 12' sheetrock.
each bay in the cabinets has a quad outlet, in case i need
to plug something in. why on earth would i skimp on my own
house? i was going to emt it 100%, and just decided good 
enough was good enough, and flexed it.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> They run a good racket there in chicago, I am in the same boat though. There is no reason MC can't go in the walls were I am at, but its all emt with steel compression with no more than 4 conductors in a pipe. The amount of money wasted is disgusting.


I learned the other day that EMT is not allowed outdoors at all whatsoever, even with compression fittings but some jobs do still spec them for indoor EMT because it's a better ground yadda yadda yadda.

Not sure if that's a Canada thing or just an Ontario thing. Cannot count how many thousands of those I've used. As you can imagine I kinda looked like this :blink:


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