# smoke detector problem any ideas



## Bluzman (Jun 5, 2011)

went to a customers house to do some work while there they asked me to troubleshoot there line voltage smoke detectors, which work independently but will not go off together. I opened each one up there all wired with 3 wire cable, all splices were good. I found the end of the line and what appears to be the first one with the feed. I know they all have power, I know the end of the line feeds out to lighting on the 2nd floor of the home. What I don't know is why they wont ring together. Anyone deal with an issue like this, could it be a defective head ? I was figuring I would have found a bad splice at the first head. I didn't have the time to continuity check the red sync wire from head to head, but its just odd that everyone looks fine.
I believe they were Kiddie brand heads with a 2007 manafacture date on them. there are 7 heads in total across 3 floors. The home owner told me while cooking they set off the one near the kitchen and the others don't ring.
any help or ideas would be great


----------



## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Bluzman said:


> went to a customers house to do some work while there they asked me to troubleshoot there line voltage smoke detectors, which work independently but will not go off together. I opened each one up there all wired with 3 wire cable, all splices were good. I found the end of the line and what appears to be the first one with the feed. I know they all have power, I know the end of the line feeds out to lighting on the 2nd floor of the home. What I don't know is why they wont ring together. Anyone deal with an issue like this, could it be a defective head ? I was figuring I would have found a bad splice at the first head. I didn't have the time to continuity check the red sync wire from head to head, but its just odd that everyone looks fine.
> I believe they were Kiddie brand heads with a 2007 manafacture date on them. there are 7 heads in total across 3 floors. The home owner told me while cooking they set off the one near the kitchen and the others don't ring.
> any help or ideas would be great


Did you try testing from different heads or just one?


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Are they all smokes and no CO2 detectors? I've never had trouble until they started requiring CO2 detectors. Now I've got some customers having their alarms going off over nothing. I'd check to make sure they're all the same brand. Did they get tickled by lightening or something of the sort? Plug in two new units at different locations and see if they talk to each other. Disconnect all the units and ring out the third wire. Just some ideas.


----------



## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

wendon said:


> Are they all smokes and no CO2 detectors? I've never had trouble until they started requiring CO2 detectors. Now I've got some customers having their alarms going off over nothing. I'd check to make sure they're all the same brand. Did they get tickled by lightening or something of the sort? Plug in two new units at different locations and see if they talk to each other. Disconnect all the units and ring out the third wire. Just some ideas.


You mean CO, CO2 is carbon dioxide not monoxide.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

just replace them all and check as you go


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

pudge565 said:


> You mean CO, CO2 is carbon dioxide not monoxide.


:laughing::laughing:That's right.


----------



## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

wendon said:


> Are they all smokes and no CO2 detectors? I've never had trouble until they started requiring CO2 detectors. Now I've got some customers having their alarms going off over nothing. I'd check to make sure they're all the same brand. Did they get tickled by lightening or something of the sort? Plug in two new units at different locations and see if they talk to each other. Disconnect all the units and ring out the third wire. Just some ideas.












A CO2 detector would be cool if they didn't cost so much.


----------



## Bluzman (Jun 5, 2011)

I want to say they are all the same brand, and I would think one had to be a combo head co/ smoke, although I didn't notice a distinct marking on it. I had thought of the idea of trying new heads, but didn't want to charge the customer to install all new heads and still have the same problem. Maybe I should try removing all the heads and going with the idea of 2 new ones to try and see if the circuit operates properly in that circumstance. Does anyone know for certain when holding the test button if it makes all the heads go off, or do they only ring together in a true smoke condition. I always remember the test button doing it, but I am starting to second guess myself now.


----------



## Bluzman (Jun 5, 2011)

update I want to say the brand was USI and they were model 5204 heads. Don't know if that makes a difference or if anyone has experience with them being problematic. Think there the Home Cheapo models.


----------



## Tjtono (May 19, 2012)

I once put line voltage on the red wire while smoke alarms plugged in it turns them all on and also burns the smoke alarm so they won't talk to each other anymore. I've also seen the red wire ground out and make it so they won't all set off as well.


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

they should all go off unless the kitchen one is set up different, ie a diferent model not, maybe not connected to rest?


----------



## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Bluzman said:


> update I want to say the brand was USI and they were model 5204 heads. Don't know if that makes a difference or if anyone has experience with them being problematic. Think there the Home Cheapo models.


 
First thing I would do is replace the smoke in the kitchen with a heat only.

This is from the smoke's manual:

LED will flash every 40-60 seconds to indicate proper operation.
OPERATION: The smoke alarm is operating once the power is connected and turned on (the battery
must also be installed). When products of combustion are sensed, the unit sounds a loud alarm
which continues until the air is cleared.
This alarm incorporates the internationally recognized horn signal for evacuation. During alarm
mode, the horn produces three short beeps followed by a two second pause and then repeats.
STANDBY CONDITION: The red LED flashes once every 40-60 seconds to indicate the unit is
properly functioning.
LOCAL ALARM CONDITION: The red LED flashes rapidly and the unit emits a loud, pulsating
alarm sound.
REMOTE ALARM CONDITION: The red LED is off and the unit emits a loud, pulsating alarm.
GREEN LED: The green LED is on whenever AC power is turned on.
TESTING: Test by pushing the test button on the smoke alarm cover until the alarm sounds, then
release. The alarm sounds if all electronic circuitry, horn and battery are working. The alarm may
continue to sound for up to 10 seconds after the button is released. If no alarm sounds, the unit may
have a defective battery or other failure. Test the smoke alarm weekly to assure proper operation.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/185387/Universal-Security-Instruments-Usi-5204.html#manual


----------



## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

From what I've found the interconnect signal is 9v dc. And certain devices will not trigger the interconnect only ring on an alarm signal ... the kiddie interconnect relay comes with a built in 9v dc output...part number smk120.. I would start by checking the output of the said units


----------



## owl (Oct 31, 2012)

I was recently in a troubleshooting hellhole. I am not sure this will help, but here goes. You said you found the feed and the end of the line. Go to what you suppose is the halfway point in the circuit. Disconnect that. If the problem persists, it is probably in the "front" half of the circuit (between you and the feed). Now go to the halfway point of *that* half. Disconnect. If the problem is still there, it is in the front half of that portion. Not sure if this makes sense.


----------



## kharasym (Jul 3, 2011)

Smoke or Co alarms can be quite finicky. The must be all the same brand when inter connecting. Hold the test button on each unit to see if they function. They should ring after a few seconds keep holding and the other units should ring if interconnected. A grounded out red interconnect wire will cause the other units to not ring. Like mentioned find the feed point and go half way to.the end point and disconnect the splice for the red. That.will tell you which way to work to find the problem. If the units are more than 10 years I believe, they are expired and should be replaced. They should have a sticker telling the year they need to be replaced. If one or more are not the same brand, most likely they wont function properly and could have damaged each other. There are some that are compatible but that's gonna take some research online. Hope that helps.


----------



## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm starting to believe that they are or more interchangable ... then I was always taught .. seems most smokes use a 9v DC signal and co's use a 4 volt signal... at some point I hope to test this theory further


----------



## kharasym (Jul 3, 2011)

They may function. But if they aren't approved and tested by manufacturers then there is probably no warranty. Who is now liable? Electrical contractor? Not a risk I would be willing to take.


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i have had expeirince with different brands working fine together at test stage. down the road, i dont know . havent had any complaints yet:whistling2:


----------



## kharasym (Jul 3, 2011)

Not telling anyone what to do. But as my own rule I wont mix brands. Just not a risk I'm willing to take. Besides its the client who has to cough up for new smokies not me so why bother risking? Extras are always nice aren't they?


----------

