# I don't fully understand how a Union works?



## Jake4444 (Jan 10, 2015)

I am thinking about becoming a union Electrician Apprentice (with IBEW) but I am not quite sure what I would be getting into.

So from what I understand, the union finds you an employer when you complete the apprenticeship, then you are a long term employee of that employer. As an employee, you are protected under the union so you cannot be treated unfairly. Then, if you get fired or let go, you let the union know and they hook you up with another employer. 

How often does this happen? I mean obviously if you are a bad electrician it will happen a lot more but is it a regular occurrence for an electrician to be let go these days due to lack of work or something? I feel as though employers would not really want to have a union electrician because they have less power over that employee. So wouldn't it be hard for the union to find you another employer? 

I guess I would prefer union over non union but I hear horror stories about how union Electricians have been out of work for months at a time and it kind of worries me. Are you allowed to look for work yourself? or even do side work while you wait?


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The IBEW can be a very _good _career , as most of my U-friends claim. 

Better to start young and assume some seniority.

Most of your concerns seem to weed themselves out over time

~CS~


----------



## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

Stop by your local union hall and ask all the questions you want, they will be more then helpful. 
Through your apprenticeship you will probably not get laid off unless the economy really tanks, and if you do and are a decent worker another company will pick you up. 
Now when you finish your apprenticeship you become expensive and are subject to becoming laid off more often. But you are making a very fair wage and have great benefits. When you are laid off you will collect unemployment so that eases the pain. During the summer months you can really stack away the money with overtime and weekend work, so if there is any advice I can give you is to sock away 10k during your apprenticeship for rainy days when unemployment does not cover the bills.
Pay attention during your apprenticeship because an uneducated journeyman is an unemployed journeyman. Try to get a diversified education and try to keep from installing mc cable for 5 years (assuming your going for the commercial program which I recommend).


----------



## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

It is not unlike any other employer. You go to work and do your job. Usually the pay and benefits are better. In my case, a jerk employer told me to be at work by noon the day my daughter was born. I quit, signed the book and was back to work in 2 days with a new contractor with the same pay and benefits. No applications or interviews. No lapse in benefits for my newborn. It can be a huge benefit. Be a good worker and let the losers ride the bench every winter.


----------



## Jake4444 (Jan 10, 2015)

JohnJ65 said:


> Stop by your local union hall and ask all the questions you want, they will be more then helpful.
> Through your apprenticeship you will probably not get laid off unless the economy really tanks, and if you do and are a decent worker another company will pick you up.
> Now when you finish your apprenticeship you become expensive and are subject to becoming laid off more often. But you are making a very fair wage and have great benefits. When you are laid off you will collect unemployment so that eases the pain. During the summer months you can really stack away the money with overtime and weekend work, so if there is any advice I can give you is to sock away 10k during your apprenticeship for rainy days when unemployment does not cover the bills.
> Pay attention during your apprenticeship because an uneducated journeyman is an unemployed journeyman. Try to get a diversified education and try to keep from installing mc cable for 5 years (assuming your going for the commercial program which I recommend).


Good advice! 




btharmy said:


> It is not unlike any other employer. You go to work and do your job. Usually the pay and benefits are better. In my case, a jerk employer told me to be at work by noon the day my daughter was born. I quit, signed the book and was back to work in 2 days with a new contractor with the same pay and benefits. No applications or interviews. No lapse in benefits for my newborn. It can be a huge benefit. Be a good worker and let the losers ride the bench every winter.


wow that's amazing. Definitely the ideal situation.


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

To try and keep it as simple as possible, iIt depends on what type of electrician you are (construction, maintenance, lineman, etc.) and your the rules within your IBEW local. They all have different working agreements and by-laws.

If you are a construction electrician (specifically a journeyman inside wireman), then that local IBEW union would have a contract that all where all contractors agree (??) to abide by. 

If you are a maintenance electrician in a factory and represented by the IBEW then there will be a contract in place between the employer and the IBEW that would essentially dictate all of the rules.

No matter where you work, union or non-union you need to look out for yourself and you will at some point feel mistreated, discriminated against, or whatever.

Hope this helps.


----------



## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

You have one thing that many workers in the US don't. A labor agreement, sets wages and working conditions. Otherwise it's take what they offer and if you don't like it we will hire someone else.

You can see why business owners hate unions. Business loves the so called merit shop where they pay you as little as they can.


----------



## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

bill39 said:


> To try and keep it as simple as possible, iIt depends on what type of electrician you are (construction, maintenance, lineman, etc.) and your the rules within your IBEW local. They all have different working agreements and by-laws.
> 
> If you are a construction electrician (specifically a journeyman inside wireman), then that local IBEW union would have a contract that all where all contractors agree (??) to abide by.
> 
> ...


 All the entries in this thread are spot-on.
There's nothing like a trade union as factory unions, aren't worth the damn. That's any of them, you care to mention. Their bargaining comittee is generally petty and have a tendency to cater to the production personnel, regarding the skilled trades as being overhead.


----------



## Sparky48 (Dec 21, 2014)

The IBEW apprenticeship is a great education. Once a journeyman keep your nose clean and do your job and you should be just fine. As mentioned visit your local union and ask some questions. One thing to remember if you do get laid off a next day job is not always assured. Depending on how many guys are on the books and the work load out in the field will determine how long you may be off. There is always the option to travel to other areas as well. Good Luck and hope all works out.


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

FaultCurrent said:


> You can see why business owners hate unions. Business loves the so called merit shop where they pay you as little as they can.


A "Union Contractor" is very fortunate in that there is normally a ready labor pool to draw from and they do not need to keep a bunch of electricians on the payroll during down times. Their labor costs are essentially what they want it to be. 

Other businesses spend a lot of $$$ and effort into training people and do not want to lay them off. Union contractors hire and layoff all the time and don't worry about it.


----------



## Jake4444 (Jan 10, 2015)

Other businesses spend a lot of $$$ and effort into training people and do not want to lay them off. Union contractors hire and layoff all the time and don't worry about it.[/QUOTE]

I take it non-union contractors are the same way?


----------



## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

FaultCurrent said:


> You have one thing that many workers in the US don't. A labor agreement, sets wages and working conditions. Otherwise it's take what they offer and if you don't like it we will hire someone else.
> 
> *You can see why business owners hate unions. Business loves the so called merit shop where they pay you as little as they can*.





bill39 said:


> A "Union Contractor" is very fortunate in that there is normally a ready labor pool to draw from and they do not need to keep a bunch of electricians on the payroll during down times. Their labor costs are essentially what they want it to be.
> 
> Other businesses spend a lot of $$$ and effort into training people and do not want to lay them off. Union contractors hire and layoff all the time and don't worry about it.


Fify


----------



## SippinCrown (Oct 6, 2014)

I got the opportunity to do my apprenticeship in a non-union shop. Keep in mind that it also depends on your location and which union hall you belong to and even who you know in the union (from what I've learned here). Both are great routes, really depends on how you choose to play out in each route, should you decide to go union then they have the best education that no union shop can match.


----------



## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

The IBEW seems to be a good Union. 
There are plenty of corrupt and self serving Union officials in other Unions. That's the reason I quit the United Steel Workers of America and the Pennsylvania State Educators Association. 
I've been non-union for 30 years and happy.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

I am an apprentice and I havnt worked for 3 months. This is due to the lack of work in my area. Now work is a phone call away but I would have to work 100 miles away. Im making more money on unemployment than if I were to do that. Plus im spending alot of Q time with my young kiddos. Work will pick up soon and ill hardly see them. Thats how it goes. Im in a big local.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

One of the lowest standards of living and one of the highest standards of living in one local. Its strange


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> One of the lowest standards of living and one of the highest standards of living in one local. Its strange


Some work, some don't.big labor pool from which you can decide your own. Slugs work part time. Go- getters have many opportunity whether it be work for some of the companies they built the backbone for, or move up in the contracting company that builds.he makes the choice. To choose to be laid of or work is your financial status. Like he said 100 miles away there is work. That's in your neighborhood when your in this trade.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

Did u just call me a slug? I certainly hope not. Im lower middle class where 80% of the populous is at or below poverty level. As an apprentice I have less options a jw has.....for now.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Did u just call me a slug? I certainly hope not. Im lower middle class where 80% of the populous is at or below poverty level. As an apprentice I have less options a jw has.....for now.


Reading my post over may help. If I would have quoted the post before I may see where your comment may have derived from. :no: I wish I didn't have such a high standard of living. You ever have to travel 1200 miles for your job? Kinda means skilled labor is in demand. Can make my own demands this way. Labor agreements are a minimum...


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

Peace of "work".


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Peace of "work".


Yeah buddy. Go back to iron work. You guys have always been a bit sketchy. Hope your unemployment doesn't get taken away by republicans.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cl219um said:


> Yeah buddy. Go back to iron work. You guys have always been a bit sketchy. Hope your unemployment doesn't get taken away by republicans.


I gotta say, your presence on this forum does the union more harm than good.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Did u just call me a slug? I certainly hope not. Im lower middle class where 80% of the populous is at or below poverty level. As an apprentice I have less options a jw has.....for now.


Wow. You are the envy of all. The average guy would get his butt off unemployment if he had dependants. You have a problem with me? Sounds great to tell future members to go on unemployment cause it pays more.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I gotta say, your presence on this forum does the union more harm than good.


Keep your camera ready. What? I can voice my opinion. Yeah. Some things trouble me in the union too. Country club ethics aren't what we are after.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Your quoting mcClary? He is the biggest supporter of the unions demise. I am on here keeping it real.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

Not what I said at all. I dont have to explain jack to u. Your a bitter little man who always says negative [email protected]#t. U know nothing. All im doing is holding out for a better wage and long term gig than go work 100 miles away for short term gigs with more unemployment. Next time you decide to spew your nonsense. .....dont. here where im at u can work out the hall or work the bench because those are the choices apprentices have here.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Not what I said at all. I dont have to explain jack to u. Your a bitter little man who always says negative [email protected]#t. U know nothing. All im doing is holding out for a better wage and long term gig than go work 100 miles away for short term gigs with more unemployment. Next time you decide to spew your nonsense. .....dont. here where im at u can work out the hall or work the bench because those are the choices apprentices have here.


Can I ask you how long you were an iron worker?


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

Never said I was an iron worker. Dont know where u got that. Just trying to figure out how u can pass a judgment without facts.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Never said I was an iron worker. Dont know where u got that. Just trying to figure out how u can pass a judgment without facts.


Your mentality. If you were my apprentice, you would be working. They work year round here. Babied in my opinion. Not a good thing, cheap labor for cons. If you are laid off, it's probably by choice.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

cl219um said:


> Can I ask you how long you were an iron worker?


Your hall surely communicates with others. To get your hours in to take the state exam to become a journey are up to you. I strived to getter dun as fast as I could. Still work week to week to make ends meet. It's the American way.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cl219um said:


> Keep your camera ready. What? I can voice my opinion. Yeah. Some things trouble me in the union too. Country club ethics aren't what we are after.










cl219um said:


> Your quoting mcClary? He is the biggest supporter of the unions demise. I am on here keeping it real.




Oops....


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

All the apprentices here are in the same boat. NO work and not allowed to travel. Different Locals have different rules regarding apprentices. We are at JATC s mercy for now. Not the same situation everwhere workwise. If I was your apprentice I would probably work circles around you. I am not your typical "Green". Dont think you know something about someone without actually knowing. Yhis is getting off topic and im done with you boy


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

Why would you stay in a union/company that doesn't give you work? 

If a company doesn't have work for me, I'd leave and find one that does give me work. 

In my short 4 years in this trade I haven't been laid off once.


----------



## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

nternes said:


> I am an apprentice and I havnt worked for 3 months. This is due to the lack of work in my area. Now work is a phone call away but I would have to work 100 miles away. Im making more money on unemployment than if I were to do that. *Plus im spending alot of Q time with my young kiddos.* Work will pick up soon and ill hardly see them. Thats how it goes. Im in a big local.


It's your life, your choices, your responsibilities, and your kids only grow up once.

Don't let anyone tell you any different!

Good luck with your apprenticeship. :thumbsup:

Borgi


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

cl219um said:


> Your hall surely communicates with others. To get your hours in to take the state exam to become a journey are up to you. I strived to getter dun as fast as I could. Still work week to week to make ends meet. It's the American way.


You do understand we cannot go work with another ec unless they dispatch us there. Or we can be like u and work non union and get sued for our tuition.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

nternes said:


> You do understand we cannot go work with another ec unless they dispatch us there. Or we can be like u and work non union and get sued for our tuition.



I mean... I'm making more than all my Union friends, I know more than them, I'm better hands on then them, and I have all the work, overtime, side work I could want and I love going to work every day. And my future looks bright. 

I feel the union would of limited these things for me. I don't see why the union is worth suffering for. 

But to each his own. Good luck brothers.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> You do understand we cannot go work with another ec unless they dispatch us there. Or we can be like u and work non union and get sued for our tuition.


I work union! I am trying to push you into striving for a better life.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

The_kid said:


> I mean... I'm making more than all my Union friends, I know more than them, I'm better hands on then them, and I have all the work, overtime, side work I could want and I love going to work every day. And my future looks bright.
> 
> I feel the union would of limited these things for me. I don't see why the union is worth suffering for.
> 
> But to each his own. Good luck brothers.


You see thats your situation in your neck of the woods. And thats great. Here you want to make it as an electrician union is the way to go. They make it hard so to weed out the dead weight. once you make it its $$$ and pension and benefits. So its the right move for me here


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

cl219um said:


> I work union! I am trying to push you into striving for a better life.


You want to strive for a better and longer life? Quit assuming u know peoples situation and life from a forum.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

nternes said:


> You see thats your situation in your neck of the woods. And thats great. Here you want to make it as an electrician union is the way to go. They make it hard so to weed out the dead weight. once you make it its $$$ and pension and benefits. So its the right move for me here



I respect anyone trying to make it in this trade.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

The_kid said:


> I respect anyone trying to make it in this trade.


Thank you


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

The_kid said:


> Why would you stay in a union/company that doesn't give you work?
> 
> If a company doesn't have work for me, I'd leave and find one that does give me work.
> 
> In my short 4 years in this trade I haven't been laid off once.


Sadly, the union teaches these guys that there is nothing wrong with working six months then collecting unemployment for six months. That's the norm, and theres nothing wrong with it.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Sadly, the union teaches these guys that there is nothing wrong with working six months then collecting unemployment for six months. That's the norm, and theres nothing wrong with it.



Everyone gets mad at people who sit around and collect unemployment when they're able to work.

Yet if your a union electrician that's perfectly acceptable, maybe even encouraged? 

That's not right.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

Whoa! Thats not true here. When work gets slow they dont allow apprentices to travel due to schooling. It sucks but it wont last either. Its not ok to work 6 months on and off. Not for me. We are under contract not to work non union. Or to do side work but most of us do. Union isnt teaching me things i dont know


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> All the apprentices here are in the same boat. NO work and not allowed to travel. Different Locals have different rules regarding apprentices. We are at JATC s mercy for now. Not the same situation everwhere workwise. If I was your apprentice I would probably work circles around you. I am not your typical "Green". Dont think you know something about someone without actually knowing. Yhis is getting off topic and im done with you boy


Ups cub. You couldn't keep up with the carrying of my tools from job to job. I would corkscrew your arse into the ground spinning circles . You are a disrespectful apprentice that deserves to be laid off. You haven't the slightest.


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Well it looks like the OP will definitely understand how the union works now that this thread has reached Derpcon 2.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

The_kid said:


> Everyone gets mad at people who sit around and collect unemployment when they're able to work.
> 
> Yet if your a union electrician that's perfectly acceptable, maybe even encouraged?
> 
> That's not right.


Not the union. THEY'RE SUPPOSED to collect unemployment. They're not allowed to work non union. 

That's right, you read that correctly. They would rather the government take care of them for six months rather than work an honest living at a non union shop while things are slow.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

cl219um said:


> Ups cub. You couldn't keep up with the carrying of my tools from job to job. I would corkscrew your arse into the ground spinning circles . You are a disrespectful apprentice that deserves to be laid off. You haven't the slightest.



You're an asshole. You're the reason people hate the union. You don't progress this trade whatsoever. You can be as good as you want, you sound like the worst person to work for. I would spit in your face if you told me to carry your tools. 

You have a ****ty attitude. You would be chewed up and spit out in my company.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

The_kid said:


> You're an asshole. You're the reason people hate the union. You don't progress this trade whatsoever. You can be as good as you want, you sound like the worst person to work for. I would spit in your face if you told me to carry your tools.
> 
> You have a ****ty attitude. You would be chewed up and spit out in my company.


What company. I probably quit them. It was a reply to him calling me a boy. Disrespect. If you spit in my face, I would drop you to the floor.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

cl219um said:


> What company. I probably quit them. It was a reply to him calling me a boy. Disrespect. If you spit in my face, I would drop you to the floor.



Because your a douchebag. You don't deserve any respect. 

And wow you're probably so tough!! 

I'm impressed.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

The_kid said:


> Because your a douchebag. You don't deserve any respect.
> 
> And wow you're probably so tough!!
> 
> I'm impressed.


Said the guy who instigates every confrontation on the union site. Works non union, but trolls until he sees an opening to drop in his two cents. There is you trying to put us against one another cause you hate unions. Then there is an arguement between me and another. Stay out.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

cl219um said:


> Said the guy who instigates every confrontation on the union site. Works non union, but trolls until he sees an opening to drop in his two cents. There is you trying to put us against one another cause you hate unions. Then there is an arguement between me and another. Stay out.



What? No. All my best friends from trade school are in the union. Hell, my uncles in the union. If you actually read what I said before I said "I respect anyone trying to make it in this trade"

You. Just personally you. Not your brothers that you usually depend on because you're such a pathetic person. 

On every thread you just come a crossed as such a belligerent maniac.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Not the union. THEY'RE SUPPOSED to collect unemployment. They're not allowed to work non union.
> 
> That's right, you read that correctly. They would rather the government take care of them for six months rather than work an honest living at a non union shop while things are slow.


And nternes who is laid off from the union thanked this post. Hey kid. What is this world coming to. Yup. I am the d-bag.spit in my face.:laughing:


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

cl219um said:


> What company. I probably quit them. It was a reply to him calling me a boy. Disrespect. If you spit in my face, I would drop you to the floor.


You give yourself away cum219. Ive worked with many a jw. Most are there to make a living and teach apprentices the trade. Its in there best interest to do so. Not to carry your tools. I have worked with your brand too. If I work with a jw who is respectful and does what he can to teach me what he knows then i would carry his tools when needed and have not because he ordered it to be done. Jws like you were used as finger puppets as apprentices and you carry it down. Can spot your kind a mile away.......boy


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

The_kid said:


> What? No. All my best friends from trade school are in the union. Hell, my uncles in the union. If you actually read what I said before I said "I respect anyone trying to make it in this trade"
> 
> You. Just personally you. Not your brothers that you usually depend on because you're such a pathetic person.
> 
> On every thread you just come a crossed as such a belligerent maniac.


I am the one who ripped on enterns. Not at first. He misunderstood me. Snowballed into this bitchfest. Then it got personal. I don't back down with what I said. He took it wrong from the start and threw his gloves to the ice.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

cl219um said:


> And nternes who is laid off from the union thanked this post. Hey kid. What is this world coming to. Yup. I am the d-bag.spit in my face.:laughing:


Thanking the post because thats how it is. Here. This all started by u acting like I had a choice. No choice if u want to be a union electrician. Your just a bitter old fart who has nothing better to do than peacock on a forum. Jeez


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> You give yourself away cum219. Ive worked with many a jw. Most are there to make a living and teach apprentices the trade. Its in there best interest to do so. Not to carry your tools. I have worked with your brand too. If I work with a jw who is respectful and does what he can to teach me what he knows then i would carry his tools when needed and have not because he ordered it to be done. Jws like you were used as finger puppets as apprentices and you carry it down. Can spot your kind a mile away.......boy


Are you effin stoned? I can see through you as well. Know it all apprentice wondering why he is out of work.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

There it is again. Assuming u know when u dont. That entitlement issue u seem to have is what im talking about. Flexing your internet muscles on a forum. Sitting alone in your 5th wheel.....son


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Thanking the post because thats how it is. Here. This all started by u acting like I had a choice. No choice if u want to be a union electrician. Your just a bitter old fart who has nothing better to do than peacock on a forum. Jeez


Yeah. I guess when it comes down to paying a mortgage, raising kids, having the stress of running work, and having been in the trade for 25 years, I just thought I have some credentials to reply to posts on the forum. My bad. I will keep my experience to myself. I miss the life I had as an apprentice. No responsibility, small bills. You can take me as a grain of salt if you would like..


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> There it is again. Assuming u know when u dont. That entitlement issue u seem to have is what im talking about. Flexing your internet muscles on a forum. Sitting alone in your 5th wheel.....son


I tell the apprentices face to face the same thing. I don't mince words. There have been guys that I have been concerned about on jobs. I let them know my thoughts of concern. Some have never changed their ways. Others are running work themselves. You aren't going to scare me away from this conversation. Brothers work it out.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

cl219um said:


> Yeah. I guess when it comes down to paying a mortgage, raising kids, having the stress of running work, and having been in the trade for 25 years, I just thought I have some credentials to reply to posts on the forum. My bad. I will keep my experience to myself. I miss the life I had as an apprentice. No responsibility, small bills. You can take me as a grain of salt if you would like..


Your experiences are from a different time and place. Im just trying to do what many people in this trade have done union or no. You just come across as belittling and confrontational and get responses in kind. Just go easy on the assumptions as they will get you into this kind of thing. Over and out baby


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cl219um said:


> Said the guy who instigates every confrontation on the union site. Works non union, but trolls until he sees an opening to drop in his two cents. There is you trying to put us against one another cause you hate unions. Then there is an arguement between me and another. Stay out.


........


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

cl219um said:


> Yeah. I guess when it comes down to paying a mortgage, raising kids, having the stress of running work, and having been in the trade for 25 years, I just thought I have some credentials to reply to posts on the forum. My bad. I will keep my experience to myself. I miss the life I had as an apprentice. No responsibility, small bills. You can take me as a grain of salt if you would like..



No one here is dissing your electrical experience. And if they are, **** em. I'm sure you are very good at what you do and where you are. 

Im just trying to be straight up and honest because I just think you're kind of a douche, personally. 

But I'm a complete asshole too. So take it how you'd like.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

mcclary's electrical said:


> ........



Oh mcclary. For once your cynicism isn't directed toward me. I can get used to this.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Well that escalated quickly.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

Yea it did. Yikes!


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

And that's how a union works!


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

The_kid said:


> What? No. All my best friends from trade school are in the union. Hell, my uncles in the union. If you actually read what I said before I said "I respect anyone trying to make it in this trade"
> 
> You. Just personally you. Not your brothers that you usually depend on because you're such a pathetic person.
> 
> On every thread you just come a crossed as such a belligerent maniac.


I prefer passionate. Maybe I have had a grudge or two. It's obvious there are differences of opinion here. I liked working non union. There were some great electricians that I worked with. They continue to challenge each other to be better. I can honestly say they challenged me to be better. I just wish the pay would have been better. For what they expected of me, I could make just working with the tools. If I could make what I do now I would consider going back. I do see a lot of bad attitudes. Country club attitudes. Half of the union guys have not seen it through my eyes, and don't know what they got until we have lost it all.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Thanking the post because thats how it is. Here. This all started by u acting like I had a choice. No choice if u want to be a union electrician. Your just a bitter old fart who has nothing better to do than peacock on a forum. Jeez


I have driven 100 miles daily. Up at 3:30 and working ten hour days. Things are different now. I can't say I know all of your circumstances. Had a big money up job and got a layoff. Who knows. 100 miles is not commutable for me any more. When I was an apprentice I was a bit more of a cowboy.


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> ........


You are wasting oxygen other forms of life are in need of.how original .


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

cl219um said:


> I have driven 100 miles daily. Up at 3:30 and working ten hour days. Things are different now. I can't say I know all of your circumstances. Had a big money up job and got a layoff. Who knows. 100 miles is not commutable for me any more. When I was an apprentice I was a bit more of a cowboy.


Ok man now that things are civil. My local is out of San Diego. I live 100miles east still in the jurisdiction. Construction here is and always has been sporadic. Last job I had was in sd for 5 months. Commuted everyday. Now work is kicking up here where I live and is $3 overscale. So instead of committing to an ec there and go to school here I opted to wait. Does that make me a slug? Or rather be on unemployment than work? No. Also the cost of living there is 5th highest in country so maintaining 2 households and getting paid less and driving back and forth for school 2 nights a week VS waiting a few months and staying close and more pay and steady. Hmmmm and im a slug


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

Well, #1 highest cost of living in the country is....

"New York: Cost of Living: 120.4% above U.S. average" 

That's more than double the average cost of living. 


"Housing costs in New York are more than 4.5 times the national average. But the financial pain doesn't stop there: Groceries, utilities and transportation cost 35.5%, 33.8% and 26.7% more than average, respectively. Plus, the typical household income actually comes in under the nation's $53,046 median"


We can't afford to take a day off. Literally. This is the reason the union doesn't cut it for me.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

Union is the only way to go here. They got all commercial and industrial work here. When there is work. Its strong. Ill be getting picked up next week for a long one with ot. I wont ride a contractors bench either. At least when your not working u know where u stand. Warming the bench for a contractor is bs. They pick the suck ups and the rest at their mercy. At least on this side of the country. Union has been good to me. Hell I got a raise and I wasnt even working. Where else can that happen?


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Union is the only way to go here. They got all eecommercial and industrial work here. When there is work. Its strong. Ill be getting picked up next week for a long one with ot. I wont ride a contractors bench either. At least when your not working u know where u stand. Warming the bench for a contractor is bs. They pick the suck ups and the rest at their mercy. At least on this side of the country. Union has been good to me. Hell I got a raise and I wasnt even working. Where else can that happen?


Same here. Not all, but mostly. If not union, local contractors at least. Had a Milwaukee contractor bid work at the federal run facility. Got some small jobs, and folded. One and done chapter 11. Keep it strong by working hard, doing your job, and work professionally. With competition like we have now there is a trade off. Have to make it look good, but in less time.


----------



## Mich drew (Mar 3, 2013)

The_kid said:


> Well, #1 highest cost of living in the country is....
> 
> "New York: Cost of Living: 120.4% above U.S. average"
> 
> ...





Wow Kid, if those figures are correct, New York seems like a crappy place to live. I was in the Big Apple in the early 90's and found the chaos of the city less than enjoyable.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

nternes said:


> Hell I got a raise and I wasnt even working. Where else can that happen?


How about the US Congress?


----------



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

nternes said:


> Union is the only way to go here. They got all commercial and industrial work here. When there is work. Its strong. Ill be getting picked up next week for a long one with ot. I wont ride a contractors bench either. At least when your not working u know where u stand. Warming the bench for a contractor is bs. They pick the suck ups and the rest at their mercy. At least on this side of the country. Union has been good to me. Hell I got a raise and I wasnt even working. Where else can that happen?


Just to let it be known, I was quoting your post on how some have the highest form, some have the lowest. I was saying this from a journeyman perspective, as I thought you were as well. You got abrasive thereafter. I followed in the same respect. I am sorry. Computer doesn't show any form of emotion. I am really crying inside:laughing: no. Really. Apprentice have no say in where they work. I know this. You came out swinging. I don't back down from an apprentice. I tell them to be a man before anything.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

No apprentices no journymen just men. That aw jw stuff goes the way of the dodo in 7-11 u know what im saying. Apology accepted.


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

Mich drew said:


> Wow Kid, if those figures are correct, New York seems like a crappy place to live. I was in the Big Apple in the early 90's and found the chaos of the city less than enjoyable.



It's not "big city life" and "hustle and bustle" the whole metropolitan area is just absolutely miserable disgusting people. Who would watch you die in the street before giving you a hand. 

I would like nothing more than to get out of here. I can't afford anything.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

The_kid said:


> It's not "big city life" and "hustle and bustle" the whole metropolitan area is just absolutely miserable disgusting people. Who would watch you die in the street before giving you a hand.
> 
> I would like nothing more than to get out of here. I can't afford anything.


I'm sorry!
Living the good life out in the country. Don't even have to lock the doors or vehicles. :thumbup:


----------



## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

wendon said:


> I'm sorry!
> Living the good life out in the country. Don't even have to lock the doors or vehicles. :thumbup:



I couldn't deal with the God damn country music. And country people. 

I've been dragged to 3 country music concerts in my life.

I was taken out in cuffs twice, and the third time I was asked to leave.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Not the union. THEY'RE SUPPOSED to collect unemployment. They're not allowed to work non union.


 Exactly. If your car was stolen, is it wrong to collect the insurance?



> That's right, you read that correctly. They would rather the government take care of them for six months rather than work an honest living at a non union shop while things are slow.


 The government? Unemployment insurance is paid by the employers. The government only administers the program.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

eejack said:


> Well that escalated quickly.


It certainly did...


----------



## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Cletus Jr and Mac Flurry, are they the same guy? Is it a mastermind attempt to create chaos? Is it scripted? Nope, just 2 tools that fell out of the bag. Both of you should just give it a rest.


----------



## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

sparky970 said:


> Cletus Jr and Mac Flurry, are they the same guy? Is it a mastermind attempt to create chaos? Is it scripted? Nope, just 2 tools that fell out of the bag. Both of you should just give it a rest.


Cletus? Mac Flurry? McDonald's in Kentucky? Its been rested sire. Just lurking now. Ever play a cuntry record backwards? The truck is fixed, the dog comes home, and the wife's shiners disappear.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

IslandGuy said:


> Exactly. If your car was stolen, is it wrong to collect the insurance?
> 
> 
> 
> The government? Unemployment insurance is paid by the employers. The government only administers the program.


Nope. Six months on and six months of, your collection more than you're putting in, and even if it's about even x that means you didn't contribute to anything else in society.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Jake4444 said:


> I am thinking about becoming a union Electrician Apprentice (with IBEW) but I am not quite sure what I would be getting into.
> 
> So from what I understand, the union finds you an employer when you complete the apprenticeship, then you are a long term employee of that employer. As an employee, you are protected under the union so you cannot be treated unfairly. Then, if you get fired or let go, you let the union know and they hook you up with another employer.
> 
> ...



Well the first page of this topic went well! It had some good advice

The only thing I can tell you is that nobody's experience is going to be the same. Most members are happy, if not they move on.

The JATC's logo has the words attitude skill and knowledge wrapped around the perimeter. It was actually a question on one of my first tests. "what three qualities must a journeymen posses"? I think that is true for everyone. Have those three, and throw in a little luck, and you should do fine.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Nope. Six months on and six months of, your collection more than you're putting in, and even if it's about even x that means you didn't contribute to anything else in society.



How about 25 years of paying in and they cut you off after six months when you need it. Is that fair? One Guy I worked with, until he retired, never collected. I am working with company guys that haven't collected for over fifteen years. 

50% of my local work for the same contractor for years at a clip. It is probably higher than that. Some may work for 10 contractors in a year. The ones that work for ten contractors a year may make more than the ones that only had one employer. They may be excellent electricians, just can't get on steady. Then contractors will go through their sags and swells and the tables turn for 50% of the local.


It is just like bad news gets all the attention, so the stereotype becomes union guys are always out of work.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

The_kid said:


> I couldn't deal with the God damn country music. And country people.
> 
> I've been dragged to 3 country music concerts in my life.
> 
> I was taken out in cuffs twice, and the third time I was asked to leave.


Maybe California would be the place for you? Then you could sit around doing yoga and listening to what I call "Richard Simmons" music.:laughing::laughing:
I couldn't handle the big city life. A lot of my customers are also my friends. I like it like that!:thumbup:


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Nope. Six months on and six months of, your collection more than you're putting in,


 Sounds just like insurance. In our local we've got furloughs. Some years it's been 12 weeks, that's 9 months on 3 months off. You're suggesting that we should all go pounding on the doors of nonunion shops and get jobs?



> and even if it's about even


 So, you don't even know.



> that means you didn't contribute to anything else in society.


 Seems society doesn't want or need more contributing to, since the way society works out there is a need for 8000 electricians for 3/4 of the year, and little to no need for electricians for the remaining 1/4 of the year.


----------

