# means of support



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

You can use tie wires to support them. I had one that wanted me to tie the 4 corners and the can itself. You just have to tie them off to something other than the ceiling support wires.


What code cycle? 05?


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## hooch (Sep 18, 2010)

I was told it is in 05&08


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Are these recessed lights "new work" cans? 

You have to secure the hi hat to the ceiling grid.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Are these recessed lights "new work" cans?
> 
> You have to secure the hi hat to the ceiling grid.



A**hole inspector made me tie the can to the ceiling also.....said the clock on the wall wasn't ul listed.....I did it and got my final. The place had to open. I read it as you only being required to tie to grid. He said but the can could come loose from the arms and fall. He is the only inspector I don't really care for here.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I got 43 2x4 layins going in next week, what sucks is the true grids are up about 12' higher than the drop grid. I know there is a caddy clip that can be inserted w/ an extension rod to hold my hangers, does anyone know the cat# off hand and does it require a specific push rod. The GC for the landlord is backwoods so I won't even bother asking him.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I got 43 2x4 layins going in next week, what sucks is the true grids are up about 12' higher than the drop grid. I know there is a caddy clip that can be inserted w/ an extension rod to hold my hangers, does anyone know the cat# off hand and does it require a specific push rod. The GC for the landlord is backwoods so I won't even bother asking him.



I either screw the 4 corners to the mains or use hurricane clips in most cases.
Last choice is those caddy hangers and tie wire.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I either screw the 4 corners to the mains or use hurricane clips in most cases.
> Last choice is those caddy hangers and tie wire.


This is an add on to my existing price. After a stop work order for the obvious reasons, the building code requires the lights stay in place if the FD yanks the cieling down. It i$ what it i$. :thumbup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> This is an add on to my existing price. After a stop work order for the obvious reasons, the building code requires the lights stay in place if the FD yanks the cieling down. It i$ what it i$. :thumbup:



Don't take this the wrong way but....Every job I have ever been on had the fixtures tied down for that reason. It's just part of installing the lights correctly....how is it an add on?:001_huh:

IDK how I could tell a customer after I gave them a price....oh yea the building code requires us to secure the light fixtures. It will be x amount more. Seems like something the ec would know and would include in the bid or just eat it..

I could be taking what you said the wrong way or misunderstood. I like to use self tappers into the mains because to me it is the easiest way.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but....Every job I have ever been on had the fixtures tied down for that reason. It's just part of installing the lights correctly....how is it an add on?:001_huh:
> 
> IDK how I could tell a customer after I gave them a price....oh yea the building code requires us to secure the light fixtures. It will be x amount more. Seems like something the ec would know and would include in the bid or just eat it..
> 
> I could be taking what you said the wrong way or misunderstood. I like to use self tappers into the mains because to me it is the easiest way.


 All his normal jobs are non permit divisions of existing warehouses to office space. I nornally just screw 4 points to the grid. I'm expecting a run through from the fire marshall who is a complete a-hole. I'm only responsible to secure my fixtures to his grid. This has now become an extra.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> All his normal jobs are non permit divisions of existing warehouses to office space. I nornally just screw 4 points to the grid. I'm expecting a run through from the fire marshall who is a complete a-hole. I'm only responsible to secure my fixtures to his grid. This has now become an extra.



See I knew I was missing something.:thumbsup:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Supporting the luminaries independent of the grid is standard. The code is written by the National Fire Protection Association and those fireman don't like getting hit in the head with fixtures when they blast the ceiling with a high pressure hose.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

hooch said:


> I have installed recessed cans in drop ceiling and supported them with tie wire.the inspector wont let this fly(410.16c) but in the hand book it reads"Where the luminaires are supported independent of suspended ceiling, 410.16c does not apply". does he have to pass me now?


Are you sure your got the right *Article* ? *410.16* and *410.16(C)* all have to do with *Luminaries in Cloth Closet.* I'll agree *410.16* does not apply. 

Might the inspector be talking about *410.36(B) *?

*Luminaries *have a significant listing in the Index, I'd suggest starting there!


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

drsparky said:


> Supporting the luminaries independent of the grid is standard. The code is written by the National Fire Protection Association and those fireman don't like getting hit in the head with fixtures when they blast the ceiling with a high pressure hose.


 When I was kid working for a big name, we would just drop them in the grid, had one fall on me , carpenters never tied in the support wires, just left them folded over.


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## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

Every light that I've installed,that was in a drop ceiling,was secured with ceiling wire to either the pan decking or junior beams. One time we did have an inspector tell us to screw the hi hats to the grid. Still had to use wire also.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

bruce6670 said:


> Every light that I've installed,that was in a drop ceiling,was secured with ceiling wire to either the pan decking or junior beams. One time we did have an inspector tell us to screw the hi hats to the grid. Still had to use wire also.


That's what I've always done, screw the hi-hats/ lay-in lights right to the ceiling grid.

Which article is requiring additional support?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Which article is requiring additional support?



There isn't one. My A** hole inspector made me. The only time screwing all 4 corners will not pass is if the ceiling guys run the grid the wrong way. Your screws have to go into the mains. I didn't have time to argue with him so I just did it any way....


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont think we ever had to tie cans to tie wire. Only screw them to the grid... I beleive that if the light is under five pounds you dont need to tie it up acording to the BOCCA. The reason we tie 2x4's and such is so that when firemen come in to rip the ceiling down the lights wont fall on their heads...


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> There isn't one. My A** hole inspector made me. The only time screwing all 4 corners will not pass is if the ceiling guys run the grid the wrong way. Your screws have to go into the mains. I didn't have time to argue with him so I just did it any way....


Wow, you guys get thorough inspections. My inspectors don't even pop the tiles to look up there.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Wow, you guys get thorough inspections. My inspectors don't even pop the tiles to look up there.



Most will look at one fixture good. This A** even looked at the clock on the wall for an UL sticker...


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## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> That's what I've always done, screw the hi-hats/ lay-in lights right to the ceiling grid.
> 
> Which article is requiring additional support?


I don't think there is one. It's always just been standard practice. I guess different inspectors just decide which methods to enforce.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Standard practice around here is all fixtures need to be tied independently from the grid.




Shockdoc said:


> Wow, you guys get thorough inspections. My inspectors don't even pop the tiles to look up there.


We have to get the ceiling work inspected before the tiles can be installed in the grid. (Except the ones where recess, 8Bs, etc. are)


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

How are you all screwing all 4 corners to the mains on a can when the mains are always 4' apart? You cant stretch the arms more than 2'. I ve always dropped one wire down and hooked all corners to that.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> How are you all screwing all 4 corners to the mains on a can when the mains are always 4' apart? You cant stretch the arms more than 2'. I ve always dropped one wire down and hooked all corners to that.



We are talking 2x4 lay in we screw into the mains. Recess we tie off.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> We are talking 2x4 lay in we screw into the mains. Recess we tie off.


 in massachusetts we do not scew to the grid we use jack chain from the building steal


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> in massachusetts we do not scew to the grid we use jack chain from the building steal


Screwing into the main is the easiest cheapest option IMO. But I have used hurricane clips, jack chain, and ceiling tie wires too.


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## idontknow (Jul 18, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I got 43 2x4 layins going in next week, what sucks is the true grids are up about 12' higher than the drop grid. I know there is a caddy clip that can be inserted w/ an extension rod to hold my hangers, does anyone know the cat# off hand and does it require a specific push rod. The GC for the landlord is backwoods so I won't even bother asking him.



Caddy clips 70824


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## Old man (Mar 24, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Most will look at one fixture good. This A** even looked at the clock on the wall for an UL sticker...


 Musta been Randy in Meck co.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> in massachusetts we do not scew to the grid we use jack chain from the building steal





jwjrw said:


> Screwing into the main is the easiest cheapest option IMO. But I have used hurricane clips, jack chain, and ceiling tie wires too.


 Its in the massachusetts Electrical code support the lights from the building steel and not the ceiling Grid.


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