# arc fault for washer ?



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

The inspector just wrote us up saying that the laundry washer needs to be an arc fault breaker, is that code ?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dunno if it's code but if a vacuum cleaner trips an AFCI breaker then a washing machine certainly can.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Are you on the 2014 yet?


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

Where is the washer located? Laundry room isn't under 210.12(A) in the 2011 edition of the NEC.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

I dreaded this day would come.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

MTW said:


> Are you on the 2014 yet?


I thought 2011


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

dronai said:


> I thought 2011


You don't know?


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

NEC 2014 states: 

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Arcfault circuit-interrupter protection shall be provided as required in 210.12(A) (B), and (C). The arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas,
or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6).


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

theJcK said:


> NEC 2014 states:
> 
> 210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Arcfault circuit-interrupter protection shall be provided as required in 210.12(A) (B), and (C). The arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
> (A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas,
> or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6).


It takes a lot of hookers to get a rule like that one passed.


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## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

99cents said:


> It takes a lot of hookers to get a rule like that one passed.


dont forget Vegas and the blow!


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

99cents said:


> It takes a lot of hookers to get a rule like that one passed.



If you look at the guys making all the arc fault proposal they work for major companies. Guys on the CMP are even affiliated with them. 


Is it any better in Canada?


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

CA is still under 2011.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

meadow said:


> If you look at the guys making all the arc fault proposal they work for major companies. Guys on the CMP are even affiliated with them.
> 
> 
> Is it any better in Canada?


It is for now because we only have to AFCI protect bedroom receptacles. But Canada has hookers too  .


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

480sparky said:


> You don't know?


Every city is different. Besides that I'm working for industrial contractor and I have an employee doing the residential stuff


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

dronai said:


> Every city is different. Besides that I'm working for industrial contractor and I have an employee doing the residential stuff


Cities might have some local regulations but the whole state is under the 2013 California Electrical Code which is based on 2011 NEC and your inspector needs to read upon it. Definitely no AFCI requirement for laundry circuit. 210.12(A) Rip him a new one...


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

joe cool said:


> Cities might have some local regulations but the whole state is under the 2013 California Electrical Code which is based on 2011 NEC and your inspector needs to read upon it. Definitely no AFCI requirement for laundry circuit. 210.12(A) Rip him a new one...


 Thanks, This city has a few of there own local codes  but the problem is that I am working in a plant starting at 6:00 am, and have no time !! My employee is frazzled, and the multi unit apartment owner is pushing as typical :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

What room is the washer in? If it is in a bedroom then yes it needs afci but if it is in a laundry room then No it does not however not all inspectors see it that way.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

dronai said:


> Thanks, This city has a few of there own local codes  but the problem is that I am working in a plant starting at 6:00 am, and have no time !! My employee is frazzled, and the multi unit apartment owner is pushing as typical :laughing:


Then you lost this one. Install the AFCI and move on!


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> What room is the washer in? If it is in a bedroom then yes it needs afci but if it is in a laundry room then No it does not however not all inspectors see it that way.


 Hall closet converted into a new laundry room. Plumbing already signed off.
Times 2 apartments, and eventually more.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

dronai said:


> Hall closet converted into a new laundry room. Plumbing already signed off.
> Times 2 apartments, and eventually more.


Closets require AFCI protection.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

FlyingSparks said:


> Then you lost this one. Install the AFCI and move on!


 Can't, it's an old Zinsco, and it's full ! We had to install a twin CB for each apartment. New Panels for both, if he enforces. Money for us, but we are squeezed for time. And...... All in conduit


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> What room is the washer in? If it is in a bedroom then yes it needs afci but if it is in a laundry room then No it does not however not all inspectors see it that way.






The 2014 code is different, pretty much all areas need one or the other if not both.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

They should just make a main breaker that is Arc and Gfi and be done with this ****


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

dronai said:


> Can't, it's an old Zinsco, and it's full ! We had to install a twin CB for each apartment. New Panels for both, if he enforces. Money for us, but we are squeezed for time. And...... All in conduit




If it gets the zinsco replaced I wouldn't be to PO. But seriously, for something grandfathered?


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

dronai said:


> Can't, it's an old Zinsco, and it's full ! We had to install a twin CB for each apartment. New Panels for both, if he enforces. Money for us, but we are squeezed for time. And...... All in conduit


2011 requires AFCI protection in closets.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

dronai said:


> They should just make a main breaker that is Arc and Gfi and be done with this ****



That saves money but imagine the outcome:no:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

meadow said:


> If it gets the zinsco replaced I wouldn't be to PO. But seriously, for something grandfathered?


 I know, and this inspector I met on the last multi meter job, and was really cool. I just don't have time to hang out and talk about 2 receptacles [email protected]


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

dronai said:


> Every city is different. Besides that I'm working for industrial contractor and I have an employee doing the residential stuff



Knowing is part of the job.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Knowing is part of the job.


But when you don't know, you can blame the inspector.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Knowing is part of the job.


 Yes your right ! in fact your always right ! :laughing:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> But when you don't know, you can blame the inspector.


 
:sleep1: I learned this from MTW


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

dronai said:


> :sleep1: I learned this from MTW




He taught me this one.


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

If the washer/dryer occupies the bulk of the space of the "closet" could you argue it is now a small laundry room and therefore exempt from AFCI requirements?
Could you change the plans to call it "laundry" instead of "closet"?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

joe cool said:


> If the washer/dryer occupies the bulk of the space of the "closet" could you argue it is now a small laundry room and therefore exempt from AFCI requirements?
> Could you change the plans to call it "laundry" instead of "closet"?


 It is no longer a closet ! It has been remodeled, and is now a real laundry room. It doesn't even resemble a closet :laughing:


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

dronai said:


> It is no longer a closet ! It has been remodeled, and is now a real laundry room. It doesn't even resemble a closet :laughing:


Unfortunately for you, if the inspector thinks it resembles a closet or similar space you are out of luck!


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

FlyingSparks said:


> Unfortunately for you, if the inspector thinks it resembles a closet or similar space you are out of luck!


 Does a closet have plumbing in it ? When I did a job walk, and saw the gutted room, I thought it was an existing laundry room. Now drop it ! :laughing:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

dronai said:


> I know, and this inspector I met on the last multi meter job, and was really cool. I just don't have time to hang out and talk about 2 receptacles [email protected]



Any arc fault outlets at the supply house?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Bad news for Landlord, inspector never called us back. Good news for us, sold 2 new panels and inspector signed it off. I didn't even pull a new permit for panels replaced ?


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