# Long time commercial Jman new to resi. Some questions



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Well here arc's are not required to be installed when you do a service upgrade. The old breakers are grandfathered in.
If you add a circuit or extend an existing one and it is in an area that requires arc protection then you must put it on one. 


I only run #12 where I am required to. Kitchen, dining room, bathroom gfi.
I see no reason to run #12 everywhere. Some people do and there is nothing wrong with that


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

dr electron said:


> 3: Any tips, tricks, or shortcuts, without degrading safety or quality, that anyone could share would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks to everyone for all of the help I've received so far.


Stay in commercial or industrial or both.


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## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

Thanks jw. I would imagine putting arc faults on some of the older wiring would open up a whole new can of worms.On the house wiring that's the way I kind of looked at it. The 14 is a breeze to work with too.

I'm with you John. Only problem is in this part of SC contractors aren't looking for good help, just cheap help. I wouldn't get a screwdriver out for what some of these guys are offering.
I'm in the upstate, what part are you from?


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## ohmega (Apr 19, 2010)

#14 is easy to work with, but in my opinion its a limiting factor in homes. The appliances that people have today go way beyond what people had way back when. I always use #12 for everything in a home(dryer,oven,h2o heater etc excluded :blink I try to make it "fool proof", or HO proof rather. I admit I overbuild, but I cant stand building to the minimum(code).

On a side note I spent a few hours today pulling out a #14 circuit that fed 3 bedrooms..... it got replaced with #12. :thumbsup: 


NOW GO ROPE A HOUSE!!


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Can't ever recall seeing an appliance that consumed more than 1500W?
I would love to find a two slice toaster that used 1500W (most are 650)
Guess the thinking is lower wattage are energy efficient.
I would rather have speed and toast that still has moistness to it while at the same time using the same KWH 

Remind me why kitchen counter plugs are 20A ? Or washroom plugs? (2200W blow driers?)


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## ohmega (Apr 19, 2010)

Hair dryer=1600w, 
Dehumidifier=1200w
Microwave=13a/1560w

Ive seen all of these in bedrooms on service calls at one time or another. 

Why a micro in a bedroom?? I guess its pretty handy to cook hotpockets in the middle of the nite. :laughing:


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## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

ohmega said:


> I guess its pretty handy to cook hotpockets in the middle of the nite. :laughing:


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hotpockets..................mmmmmmmmm:thumbsup::laughing:


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

ohmega said:


> Hair dryer=1600w,
> Dehumidifier=1200w
> Microwave=13a/1560w
> 
> ...


 
Maybe they had the microwave before KY came out with the warming gel.:thumbsup:


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

1560 watt micro? Never seen one.. Most are 700-1000W


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Run #14 wherever you can, especially lighting...#12 only where required.


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## Teaspoon (Jan 10, 2009)

In my area we are required to AFCI protect all Bd.Rm. Circuits .On Change-outs
The thinking is that we are upgradeing an old Installation to present Code.
We also have to GFCI protect the required Circuits. And add Smoke detecters.
I liked the good ole days when we just change the Panel and Go.
AFCI'S are a pain sometimes on old installations.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Teaspoon said:


> In my area we are required to AFCI protect all Bd.Rm. Circuits .On Change-outs
> The thinking is that we are upgradeing an old Installation to present Code.
> We also have to GFCI protect the required Circuits. And add Smoke detecters.
> I liked the good ole days when we just change the Panel and Go.
> AFCI'S are a pain sometimes on old installations.


This is absolutely insane. So if you change a service do you have to upgrade all the old nm cable that doesn't have a proper ground? Do you have to add outlets where there should be? Do you have to isolate all the bathroom recep.? Enforcing the arc fault on a changeover is, IMO, sinful. Things are hard enough for people and to make them add 10-20 arc faults is wrong.

The problems it can create for an EC is also an issue. How could I quote a service change if I must go in and find all the issues with the old circuits that are causing problem on the arc fault circuits. 

We had one inspection department around here start to enforce it but they were challenged on it and they gave in. We are fortunate to have inspectors around here that listen to logic and are not bullheaded-- as I am.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I agree Dennis. A service change may cost 10k by the time its all done:laughing:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

dr electron said:


> Thanks jw. I would imagine putting arc faults on some of the older wiring would open up a whole new can of worms.On the house wiring that's the way I kind of looked at it. The 14 is a breeze to work with too.
> 
> I'm with you John. Only problem is in this part of SC contractors aren't looking for good help, just cheap help. I wouldn't get a screwdriver out for what some of these guys are offering.
> I'm in the upstate, what part are you from?


Check your PM's. I sent you one the other day. I am in Spartanburg county. Town of Campobello.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

dr electron said:


> 3: Any tips, tricks, or shortcuts, without degrading safety or quality, that anyone could share would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks to everyone for all of the help I've received so far.


Attics suck in the summer.
HO's are cheap b*stards.
Electricians working before you generally s*ck. 
Always expect the worst.


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## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Attics suck in the summer.
> HO's are cheap b*stards.
> Electricians working before you generally s*ck.
> Always expect the worst.


Amen to that. Nothing against you guys who do this for a living but I for one will be happy when someone starts building BUILDINGS again!

I'm going to look at wiring a pool anything special I should know?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

ha!
just missed a thread on this subject; seems in 2008 you have to bond the water!


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Why would anyone wanna move from ICI to residential?


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Toronto Sparky said:


> Why would anyone wanna move from ICI to residential?


I think he said he wanted to put food on the table...


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## ohmega (Apr 19, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> Attics suck in the summer.
> HO's are cheap b*stards.
> Electricians working before you generally s*ck.
> Always expect the worst.




To add-
-"friends" always want your services for free
-dead creatures under a house are only there to brighten your day
-arguing with the inspector is not wise, even if he's an idiot
-Smile when you 1st meet a HO, and when your driving away with $$ in pocket.
-And most importantly......Be thankful your not a turd-plunging plumber!


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## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

Voltech said:


> I think he said he wanted to put food on the table...


...and a roof over our heads and a truck in the driveway etc.


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## Teaspoon (Jan 10, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> This is absolutely insane. So if you change a service do you have to upgrade all the old nm cable that doesn't have a proper ground? Do you have to add outlets where there should be? Do you have to isolate all the bathroom recep.? Enforcing the arc fault on a changeover is, IMO, sinful. Things are hard enough for people and to make them add 10-20 arc faults is wrong.
> 
> The problems it can create for an EC is also an issue. How could I quote a service change if I must go in and find all the issues with the old circuits that are causing problem on the arc fault circuits.
> 
> We had one inspection department around here start to enforce it but they were challenged on it and they gave in. We are fortunate to have inspectors around here that listen to logic and are not bullheaded-- as I am.


 We Usually add Arc Faults to Bd, Rm Circuits Only. GFCI protection For,
counter top circuits , Bath Rms & Out side Rec. If It is just a change-out,
we are allowed to use Battery smoke detecters. If a remodel where walls & ceilings are opened up we go with hard wire battery back-up smokies.
For old 2 wire systems if we change a Rec, we replace with GFCI Rec.
I am all for safety but the AFCI Issue Is Being over done on change-outs.
These things are almost impossiable. In most cases the old wiring is overloaded,over fused.Around here on most of the old fuse panels, when you open the lid most 120volt circuits are on 30 amp fuses.
I always breaker them to the proper amp's for the wire size. this usually leads to splitting some circuits and adding another circuit.to eliminate the overload situation.


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