# ABC vs Union



## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

What are the figures when it comes to how many apprentices were talking about for both sides?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Next72969 said:


> What are the figures when it comes to how many apprentices were talking about for both sides?


Quite frankly, I did not see that.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

big2bird said:


> I just read these figures. Keep in mind this is ALL trades.
> In 2011, The ABC non-union union spent 25 million on apprentice training.
> In 2011, The COMBINED union building trades spent 750 million on training.
> Consider that when you youngins decide which way to go.


This proves what?

What percentage of non-union shops belong to the ABC?

I would say a very small percentage. 

There is more training done outside of the ABC than you're figures show.


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

I was just wondering because thats like someone with 5 kids saying they spend more on their children than i do on my one child. Its a moot point


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

big2bird said:


> I just read these figures. Keep in mind this is ALL trades.
> In 2011, The ABC non-union union spent 25 million on apprentice training.
> In 2011, The COMBINED union building trades spent 750 million on training.
> Consider that when you youngins decide which way to go.


What about the combined ABC chapters expenditures? By the way ABC training is non-profit, and many times the contractors donate tools, material, money, and labor towards the training facility.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Yeah but ABC doesn't produce slugs.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> I just read these figures. Keep in mind this is ALL trades.
> In 2011, The ABC non-union union spent 25 million on apprentice training.
> In 2011, The COMBINED union building trades spent 750 million on training.
> Consider that when you youngins decide which way to go.


I don't know anyone that has done ABC training and I work in large (more than 200, at times more than 300 guys) companies. 

Our guys go through our in house state accredited schooling and training.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

BBQ said:


> I don't know anyone that has done ABC training and I work in large (more than 200, at times more than 300 guys) companies.
> 
> Our guys go through our in house state accredited schooling and training.


 ABC and IEC meet federal guidelines for PW work. Who in your state accredits your training program?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

big2bird said:


> I just read these figures. Keep in mind this is ALL trades.
> In 2011, The ABC non-union union spent 25 million on apprentice training.
> In 2011, The COMBINED union building trades spent 750 million on training.
> Consider that when you youngins decide which way to go.


 A better number would be how many ABC apprentices are sitting at home compared to the combined union apprentices sitting at home.


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

I am ABC trained. It is just like anything else. You get out of it what you want to, just like reading sketchy figures somebody posted anonymously on the internet. 

From my experience and other's wisdom filled posts, anybody (slug or rat) is as good or poor as they want to be. 

Keep that in mind.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

rewire said:


> ABC and IEC meet federal guidelines for PW work. Who in your state accredits your training program?


The state as I mentioned.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

BBQ said:


> The state as I mentioned.


 What department or division of the state ?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

rewire said:


> What department or division of the state ?


The go and figure it out for yourself division of training.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

BBQ said:


> The state as I mentioned.


Stop. You're about to argue with Rewire.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

BBQ said:


> The go and figure it out for yourself division of training.


 so you don't know .


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

rewire said:


> so you don't know .


So you don't know Google? You must be famous.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

rewire said:


> so you don't know .



That is correct, I do not know the name of the department that accredits the school that I do not run or go to. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Goldagain said:


> Stop. You're about to argue with Rewire.


I hear you.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

ABC is like abortion...

And NSA spying on you.


Down with the ABC!


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

HackWork said:


> ABC is like abortion...
> 
> And NSA spying on you.
> 
> ...


IBEW is like penis cancer.

Down with the penis cancer.

If you support them you support Penis cancer.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Abc, easy as 123 
Or simple as do, re, mi 
Abc, 123, baby, you and me girl 
Abc, easy as 123 
Or simple as do, re, mi 
Abc, 123, baby, you and me


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Goldagain said:


> IBEW is like penis cancer.
> 
> Down with the penis cancer.
> 
> If you support them you support Penis cancer.


Me, icefalkon, and eejack are gonna come and mess you up


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

BBQ said:


> That is correct, I do not know the name of the department that accredits the school that I do not run or go to. :laughing:


 So you don't know ,it would be easier just to say that then dance around it. When you do that it appears you are making things up and when pressed for information you get snarky. Now I am not saying you made this up but every company I have worked for with a training program I knew who accredited it.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Me, icefalkon, and eejack are gonna come and mess you up


You hiring all the guys sitting on the bench??


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

meh I ain't scared. You guys will all break a sweat and pass out gettin outta your trucks.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

TGGT said:


> You hiring all the guys sitting on the bench??


I think he's calling you a fair weather brother Hax.


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## polyphase (Nov 1, 2011)

I took first 2 years in ibew and last 2 in abc our company dropped out of the union didn't bother me they treat us good but the schooling is a difference between daylight and dark. I wish I could have topped out in the through ibew school.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

rewire said:


> So you don't know ,it would be easier just to say that then dance around it. When you do that it appears you are making things up and when pressed for information you get snarky. Now I am not saying you made this up but every company I have worked for with a training program I knew who accredited it.


He already told you. It's accredited by the state. What do you want? The name, address, blood type, cell number, and shirt size of the guy that is personally responsible for accrediting the program. 

In case you're hard of hearing (or maybe you're just a little slow) I'll say it louder.

IT'S ACCREDITED BY THE STATE!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

big2bird said:


> I just read these figures. Keep in mind this is ALL trades.
> In 2011, The ABC non-union union spent 25 million on apprentice training.
> In 2011, The COMBINED union building trades spent 750 million on training.
> Consider that when you youngins decide which way to go.


I know some ABC companies 
Do not pay for apprentice training
Pay for a portion of the training
Only repay after completion of each year with good grades.

And many open shop companies are not affliated with ABC or any other such organization.

Wonder how or if this plays into this.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Me, icefalkon, and eejack are gonna come and mess you up


aw you guys got me to admit im not union, but i might join you on that excursion


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> The state as I mentioned.


Should have just said DOL and be done with it.

I would bet it is DOL or some such government entity, what it is called does not really matter does it?

To clarify you apprentices can work on PW jobs?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

In Iowa you must complete a DOL apprenticeship program. The only two programs available I know of are the ABC and the NJATC. If you don't complete an apprenticeship with either of these organizations you will never be a licensed electrician in this state


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> So you don't know ,it would be easier just to say that then dance around it. When you do that it appears you are making things up and when pressed for information you get snarky. Now I am not saying you made this up but every company I have worked for with a training program I knew who accredited it.


Are you ABC?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> To clarify you apprentices can work on PW jobs?


Yes, as apprentices.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Yes, as apprentices.


Correct, a contractor I worked for learned that the hard way putting helpers on a PW job.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> Correct, a contractor I worked for learned that the hard way putting helpers on a PW job.


Well it still happens, I was running a PW job and we were short help so they sent me temp help that was not in a program so we had to pay low skilled temps full JW wage which pissed me off.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Well it still happens, I was running a PW job and we were short help so they sent me temp help that was not in a program so we had to pay low skilled temps full JW wage which pissed me off.


I hate PW chit just cause, customers hate it too, specially small utilities that just want to use state funding cause they won't approve a rate hike. Needless jacks the price to them for nothing.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Is the IBEW apprentice program standardized across the all locals?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> He already told you. It's accredited by the state. What do you want? The name, address, blood type, cell number, and shirt size of the guy that is personally responsible for accrediting the program.
> 
> In case you're hard of hearing (or maybe you're just a little slow) I'll say it louder.
> 
> IT'S ACCREDITED BY THE STATE!


 I see adult conversation is beyond you.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

rewire said:


> I see adult conversation is beyond you.


Says the guy that can't keep from getting banned for acting like an ass.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> I see adult conversation is beyond you.


And you still can't answer a question?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Says the guy that can't keep from getting banned for acting like an ass.


I thought he was banned for his poor driving skills.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> I thought he was banned for his poor driving skills.


Don't joke, someone died in that accident that no one got hurt in.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Don't joke, someone died in that accident that no one got hurt in.


That stop sign post had it's career as a sign post cut short. How sad :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Don't joke, someone died in that accident that no one got hurt in.


SERIOUSLY? aaaaaaa No one got hurt?


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

I went through the ABC program and I was a instructor. 
The last time I tried to get into the IBEW the organizer was not aware that the ABC had a apprenticeship program and he also told me that I was probably over qualified to join the IBEW.

LC


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Says the guy that can't keep from getting banned for acting like an ass.


 simply answer a question like an adult no need to get snarky .


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> simply answer a question like an adult no need to get snarky .


simply answer a question


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

rewire said:


> simply answer a question like an adult no need to get snarky .


Alright, let's see if you could practice what you are preaching.

Simple question, why did you lie about someone dying in the van flipping accident?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I went through the ABC program and I was a instructor.
> The last time I tried to get into the IBEW the organizer was not aware that the ABC had a apprenticeship program and he also told me that I was probably over qualified to join the IBEW.
> 
> LC


by overqualified they mean you know more than they'd like you to. they like to grow their own if you know what I mean


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I went through the ABC program and I was a instructor.
> The last time I tried to get into the IBEW the organizer was not aware that the ABC had a apprenticeship program and he also told me that I was probably over qualified to join the IBEW.
> 
> LC


 I am surprised they didn't tap you for the JATC.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Alright, let's see if you could practice what you are preaching.
> 
> Simple question, why did you lie about someone dying in the van flipping accident?


 It was an offhand remark not meant to be taken seriously.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> I went through the ABC program and I was a instructor.
> The last time I tried to get into the IBEW the organizer was not aware that the ABC had a apprenticeship program and he also told me that I was probably over qualified to join the IBEW.
> 
> LC


When I joined the only issue the IBEW had with me besides my supposedly Anti-American stance (a lie spread by union members:laughing was the fact I had masters in all local jurisdictions.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

rewire said:


> It was an offhand remark not meant to be taken seriously.


Well done, lets go deeper.

Why do you deny that you ran a business into the ground?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Well done, lets go deeper.
> 
> Why do you deny that you ran a business into the ground?


All I want to know is he now ABC, IBEW or no affilation?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Well done, lets go deeper.
> 
> Why do you deny that you ran a business into the ground?


 because I didn't , when a general contractor walks away owing me money along with all other subs how does that equate to "running into the ground"?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> All I want to know is he now ABC, IBEW or no affilation?


 I don't even own a business any longer.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> I don't even own a business any longer.


You working in the trade?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

rewire said:


> because I didn't , when a general contractor walks away owing me money along with all other subs how does that equate to "running into the ground"?


Mismanagement allowing the actions of one GC take you down.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> You working in the trade?


His wife owns it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HackWork said:


> His wife owns it.


JFC...are you crapping me. So he was fudging the facts?......Oh the shame.

So this is the same company he had last time he was a member here as Mr. Rewire?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> JFC...are you crapping me. So he was fudging the facts?......Oh the shame.
> 
> So this is the same company he had last time he was a member here as Mr. Rewire?


Yes.


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

rewire said:


> because I didn't , when a general contractor walks away owing me money along with all other subs how does that equate to "running into the ground"?


We all know your capability of "running into the ground".










You aren't out of the WOODS yet....:laughing:


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

BBQ said:


> Mismanagement allowing the actions of one GC take you down.


 If it was just one but that was not the case when Ford closed the local dealership they stiffed me also and I had no control over the housing bubble bursting and the banks stop lending and work drying up and the fact that no licensing required meant every laid off electrician was now doing side work and driving prices down along with customers getting three estimates for hanging a ceiling fan. we were at 60/40 new construction /service. When the housing stopped we were looking at a huge revenue loss and I was just tired of the fight. We were sitting at the end of tourist season with nothing on the horizon and I didn't want to put any personal capital into the company. I shut down and started looking for work which was not to be found. a lot of companies were throwing in the towel . Even the larger companies were on borrowed time. Maybe I should have seen it coming and changed course but it is what it is .


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> JFC...are you crapping me. So he was fudging the facts?......Oh the shame.
> 
> So this is the same company he had last time he was a member here as Mr. Rewire?


 You knew this B J don't act like it is news.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

rewire said:


> If it was just one but that was not the case when Ford closed the local dealership they stiffed me also and I had no control over the housing bubble bursting and the banks stop lending and work drying up and the fact that no licensing required meant every laid off electrician was now doing side work and driving prices down along with customers getting three estimates for hanging a ceiling fan. we were at 60/40 new construction /service. When the housing stopped we were looking at a huge revenue loss and I was just tired of the fight. We were sitting at the end of tourist season with nothing on the horizon and I didn't want to put any personal capital into the company. I shut down and started looking for work which was not to be found. a lot of companies were throwing in the towel . Even the larger companies were on borrowed time. Maybe I should have seen it coming and changed course but it is what it is .


Now why didn't you just say this from the beginning :laughing:


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

HawkShock said:


> We all know your capability of "running into the ground".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I was not driving this van .


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Now why didn't you just say this from the beginning :laughing:


 This is not new I never stated anything but this . you see the truth is consistent and easy to remember.


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

rewire said:


> I was not driving this van .


It has your name on it.....


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> You knew this B J don't act like it is news.


I knew previously, but with this evenings post I thought that the wifes (YOURS no matter what the paper work says) was defunct.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

HawkShock said:


> It has your name on it.....


 It has the company name on it the company employs several people.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> I knew previously, but with this evenings post I thought that the wifes (YOURS no matter what the paper work says) was defunct.


 No my wifes business is doing well as its focus is in the residential service market her decision to join clockwork home services was one of the smartest moves we could have made.


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## HawkShock (Nov 27, 2012)

LOOK RIGHT HERE>>rewire said:


> It has the company name on it the company employs several people.



Is this guy for real?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> This is not new I never stated anything but this . you see the truth is consistent and easy to remember.


I swear I am not trying to give you a hard time yet but your post and answers to questions always seem to be so convoluted.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> No my wifes business is doing well as its focus is in the residential service market her decision to join clockwork home services was one of the smartest moves we could have made.


And is she ABC, IBEW or no affiliation?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> I swear I am not trying to give you a hard time yet but your post and answers to questions always seem to be so convoluted.


 I try doing simple answers but this crowd does not do simple very well which is actually kind of ironic.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> And is she ABC, IBEW or no affiliation?


 No affiliation. we don't do construction so having a federally approved apprentice program has no value.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

HawkShock said:


> Is this guy for real?


 another employee was driving.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> No affiliation. we don't do construction so having a federally approved apprentice program has no value.


For the benefit of your employees and for long term men you?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

brian john said:


> For the benefit of your employees and for long term men you?


 we train in house targeted to what we do we also do offsite on some things like generators.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> we train in house targeted to what we do we also do offsite on some things like generators.


As we do but in the long run a full apprenticeship is best for them. 

Strictly my opinion.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

brian john said:


> As we do but in the long run a full apprenticeship is best for them.
> 
> Strictly my opinion.


And in states with a statewide licensing requirement a full apprenticeship is best AND necessary. I meet a lot of young "apprentices" who don't even realize they're not apprentices. I tell them to get with a company that is going to put them through an apprenticeship or get another line of work. We need a skilled workforce in the trade, union or non


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> I hate PW chit just cause, customers hate it too, specially small utilities that just want to use state funding cause they won't approve a rate hike. Needless jacks the price to them for nothing.


Your prevailing wage is the wage calculated for your skills in the area you work. Wages someone would expected to be paid for their education and experience.

It is also designed to prevent contractors from bringing in people that earn lower wages from other areas.

Kinda like the way people get upset when people from other countries come here and work for cheap.

A bit of macroeconomics a play here. It requires a bit more than typical bar talk depth of understanding.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> This proves what?


Prove?

Just a fact like "the sky is blue." 

Does that statement prove anything?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

:laughing:


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Prove?
> 
> Just a fact like "the sky is blue."
> 
> Does that statement prove anything?


As I said the majority of non-union shops are NOT affiliated with the ABC. Your "facts" prove nothing.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> As I said the majority of non-union shops are NOT affiliated with the ABC. Your "facts" prove nothing.


Nor did I ever say it did.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

big2bird said:


> Nor did I ever say it did.


In all fairness, your OP did insinuate that the choice is either Union or ABC.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

HackWork said:


> In all fairness, your OP did insinuate that the choice is either Union or ABC.


Really? If the fact was Ford vs Chevy, would I be insinuating they are the only two manufacturers of automobiles?

If anything, it proves people can read anything they want into anything.:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

big2bird said:


> Prove?
> 
> Just a fact like "the sky is blue."
> 
> Does that statement prove anything?


This would be easier to argue. The sky can be red at dawn or afternoon, or black at night. Jeesh.:laughing:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

big2bird said:


> Really? If the fact was Ford vs Chevy, would I be insinuating they are the only two manufacturers of automobiles?


It would insinuate that they are the two major players in that particular comparison. 

When it comes to apprenticeship training, the ABC is a very tiny part of that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

big2bird said:


> This would be easier to argue. The sky can be red at dawn or afternoon, or black at night. Jeesh.:laughing:


You're trying too hard.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

HackWork said:


> You're trying too hard.


Or maybe, just maybe, you are wrong.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

big2bird said:


> Or maybe, just maybe, your wrong.


you're


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

HackWork said:


> In all fairness, your OP did insinuate that the choice is either Union or ABC.


exactly


big2bird said:


> Really? If the fact was Ford vs Chevy, would I be insinuating they are the only two manufacturers of automobiles?
> 
> If anything, it proves people can read anything they want into anything.:laughing:


Don't play dumb. You know exactly what you were trying to insinuate in your OP. You were trying to say how great the union is because they spent so much money on training. The problem is you're trying to compare apples and oranges. You can't compare the entire IBEW with one non-union organization which only represents a small fraction of the non-union world. 

You're being disingenuous when you make statements like this.



big2bird said:


> Consider that when you youngins decide which way to go.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

EBFD6 said:


> exactly
> 
> 
> 
> You're being disingenuous when you make statements like this.


 
I think the real choice is,

Knowing either organization exist and being able to get into one or the other.

I know the ABC school will (or at least did) allow someone to attend that is with an EC that is not affiliated with the ABC, self paid.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> exactly
> 
> 
> Don't play dumb. You know exactly what you were trying to insinuate in your OP. You were trying to say how great the union is because they spent so much money on training. The problem is you're trying to compare apples and oranges. You can't compare the entire IBEW with one non-union organization which only represents a small fraction of the non-union world.
> ...


Tell you what. Don't put words in my mouth, and I won't put words in your mouth. Honestly, I just posted a tid bit for food for thought , and watched where it went.
In your words I cannot compare ABC to the rest of the non union sector.
That is correct. There are no statistics that I know of, therefore, I can only post what I have read.
You may now rant away what "I" thought. How marvelous a gift you may have "knowing" what others are thinking. Perhaps palm reader would be more profitable for you.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

brian john said:


> I think the real choice is,
> 
> Knowing either organization exist and being able to get into one or the other.
> 
> I know the ABC school will (or at least did) allow someone to attend that is with an EC that is not affiliated with the ABC, self paid.


Yes, awhile ago a young guy asked which one to try? I merely supplied statistics. I try very hard not to praise the union here. That only leads to union bashing on a huge scale, so I refrain. Even so, it always ends up there.
I can only say it has been very good for me.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> And in states with a statewide licensing requirement a full apprenticeship is best AND necessary. I meet a lot of young "apprentices" who don't even realize they're not apprentices. I tell them to get with a company that is going to put them through an apprenticeship or get another line of work. We need a skilled workforce in the trade, union or non


I am not really sure how our state (SC) is in regards to state wide licensing.
I however do carry a state masters license.

I have never met one (1) apprentice in the state of SC. They are all helpers. There is no organized training. There is no organized labor.

Since i have had little experience with construction and ECing in this state, I am not certain how PW jobs are handled in the state.

There could be apprentices, but I have never met or heard of one in this state.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

their is another....no his is not from star wars. The IEC also offers a training program.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

rewire said:


> So you don't know ,it would be easier just to say that then dance around it. When you do that it appears you are making things up and when pressed for information you get snarky. Now I am not saying you made this up but every company I have worked for with a training program I knew who accredited it.


How many companies have you worked for that have a training program?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

mdfriday said:


> How many companies have you worked for that have a training program?


 Five.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I don't know that the degree program I won't through with the state of NH would count as an apprenticeship program per SE, but musta been close enough. I learned how to navigate the NEC, how motors and transformers worked, and how electrical controls flow. The rest I have learned in the field. During that time I was a registered apprentice with the state of NH, but it wasn't any kind of JATC or ABC program, but one approved by the state electrical board to count for the education requirement needed to take my J-man test. Then again, I basically worked as a j-man the 2nd 2 years of my apprenticeship, unsupervised for the most part, and I do bleieve I am abetted electrician because of it.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

It isn't actually a company but I went to several schools in the military.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

rewire said:


> It isn't actually a company but I went to several schools in the military.


How many trucks do you have on the road now Rewire?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Goldagain said:


> How many trucks do you have on the road now Rewire?


I want to see more pictures of the transit connect when you answer, Rewire. That little buggy has my mind churning.

Edited for punkt chew a shun.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Going_Commando said:


> I want to see more pictures of the transit connect when you answer, Rewire. That little buggy has my mind churning.
> 
> Edited for punkt chew a shun.


if you're serious about the transit connect I have a MUCH better setup than what I have seen of his. 
I have no clue how the hell anyone could work out of his the way it's set up.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> I want to see more pictures of the transit connect when you answer, Rewire. That little buggy has my mind churning.
> 
> Edited for punkt chew a shun.


I believe you saw DrSpec's here. If you want to see what I consider to be the most efficient Connect you should go look at PetrosA's at Mikeholt.com

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=152961&page=7&p=1489910#post1489910

Check out that whole thread.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I believe you saw DrSpec's here. If you want to see what I consider to be the most efficient Connect you should go look at PetrosA's at Mikeholt.com
> 
> http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=152961&page=7&p=1489910#post1489910
> 
> Check out that whole thread.


His setup also costs $3600 :laughing:. Does have my head scratching though, just like that plumber dude's over on contractortalk.


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## Ionspot (Aug 9, 2013)

Next72969 said:


> What are the figures when it comes to how many apprentices were talking about for both sides?




Next72969, it looks like 430K (JACT) vs 22K (ABC)

_reference_
Chart 3 on page 10 of
TJK ABC Working Paper Final (4-20-12)



.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

brian john said:


> Is the IBEW apprentice program standardized across the all locals?


I don't know if someone else already answered this.

Yes, generally speaking. The NJATC based in D.C. or Maryland or something produces a standard curriculum for the various apprentice classifications (Inside, Residential, Low Voltage, etc) and most of the local JATCs use that as far as I know. There are a few that deviate from the curriculum, or modify it, and there are no restrictions on doing that as long as your Apprenticeship program meets state training requirements (in states that require it).


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

rewire said:


> ABC and IEC meet federal guidelines for PW work. Who in your state accredits your training program?


In Michigan per 1956 PA 217, the Electrical Administrative Board (EAB), which falls under the Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA), must approve the apprenticeship training program; this program must at minimum be equivalent to the requirements of those imposed by the United States department of labor bureau of apprenticeship and training.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

HawkShock said:


> We all know your capability of "running into the ground".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is cool :laughing::laughing::laughing: I laughed so much.


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## Natan (May 27, 2013)

HawkShock said:


> It has your name on it.....


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Potential11 (Nov 14, 2011)

I have met three guys that went through the ABC program: One of them works for a huge GC and stated he is glad for unions because of prevailing wage jobs. The second guy I met ended joining the IBEW and going through the IBEW apprenticeship. The last guy I met he was working for the ILUNA Local 300.


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## southvalleysparky (Jul 25, 2013)

erics37 said:


> I don't know if someone else already answered this.
> 
> Yes, generally speaking. The NJATC based in D.C. or Maryland or something produces a standard curriculum for the various apprentice classifications (Inside, Residential, Low Voltage, etc) and most of the local JATCs use that as far as I know. There are a few that deviate from the curriculum, or modify it, and there are no restrictions on doing that as long as your Apprenticeship program meets state training requirements (in states that require it).


I was going to answer this as well. 

I went through the Fresno JATC and from a few casual chats with the training director and instructors I found that there is a general curriculum that is required, but there are a few electives (for lack of a better word) that can be chosen by the training director to give specific attention to things common in their jurisdiction. Those electives are generalized though, and everything comes from yhe same place, it's just that not every part of the country does exactly the same work so it's good to have coursework directed at the field work.

It looks like I just said exactly what you did. Lol. My bad.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

big2bird said:


> I just read these figures. Keep in mind this is ALL trades.
> In 2011, The ABC non-union union spent 25 million on apprentice training.
> In 2011, The COMBINED union building trades spent 750 million on training.
> Consider that when you youngins decide which way to go.


That sounds like the mafia grooming a new young drug dealer. You know, an apt, ferrari, 1k suits, next thing you know your sucked into it and made a deal with the devil


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Cletis said:


> That sounds like the mafia grooming a new young drug dealer. You know, an apt, ferrari, 1k suits, next thing you know your sucked into it and made a deal with the devil


:blink:


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## Brother Noah (Jul 18, 2013)

Cletis said:


> That sounds like the mafia grooming a new young drug dealer. You know, an apt, ferrari, 1k suits, next thing you know your sucked into it and made a deal with the devil


 
You know I lived in Georgia before for years and I do not remember meeting any one from there that would make such an assumption! Tell the truth Cletis your from another country that was so obscure it no longer exist?


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