# Portable Generator Wiring



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

P.S. ^^ This what the meter lock looks like on a new 200 amp meter pan.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Nice work Ron. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Notice the grounding block beneath the meter with nothing going to it? 

The HO looked at me like I had 6 heads when I informed him it was necessary.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> Notice the grounding block beneath the meter with nothing going to it?
> 
> The HO looked at me like I had 6 heads when I informed him it was necessary.



There is an exception for existing buildings. Does your area have an amendment requiring it?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Bulldog1 said:


> There is an exception for existing buildings. Does your area have an amendment requiring it?


That's a crazy question. Last week I had an EI wanting a ground rod attached to a portable generator. The EI for this job has busted balls before so i always install one regardless.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

What is going out the back of the pull box.. I see a plastic bushing..


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> What is going out the back of the pull box.. I see a plastic bushing..


Nothing. :no: 

The only thing in that box are the generator feeders and (2) 125 volt current sensors.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I see you used the Interlockkit type instead of the HomeLine type.

That cost you an extra $90 .... :whistling2:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Bulldog1 said:


> There is an exception for existing buildings. Does your area have an amendment requiring it?


 Ive gotten knocked down for that too at least three times... I just install it now..


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

kbsparky said:


> I see you used the Interlockkit type instead of the HomeLine type.
> 
> That cost you an extra $90 .... :whistling2:


The Homeline Type? I did not know that they made one for HOM. 

Interesting: HOM interlock kit

Have you used them before? I thought the Interlockkit.com type was easy as far as installation goes. But $90 bucks is $90 bucks. :whistling2:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Ive gotten knocked down for that too at least three times... I just install it now..


Yup.... I'm like, "ok, you win, I'm not even going to argue or complain on the ET forum at night." :laughing:


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## jarhead0531 (Jun 1, 2010)

Installing one of those on Friday. Just wondering why you didn't use something like this http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-MB75/p1087.html . I tell the HO to pick it up and I'll install it for them while installing the interlokkit kit.

I do like the Square D model for their panels. Comes with the template for the install making it like a 10 minute job.


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## Gamit (Dec 30, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Here is my latest install.These things sure are EC friendly on the profit side of things. This one was a bit unique because the guy wanted a watt meter. I wound up buying the Reliance watt meter and bootlegging it to a 8x8x4 pull box and mounting it to the cover with 8/32 bolt and nut. I thought the inspector might have had an issue with that but he passed it. I used EMT because I thought it was better for this application. #10 THHN/ THWN conductors, 30 amp, 240 volt generator main circuit breaker. This included a 15' flexible cord with L1430 female and male cord bodies. I also upgraded the service here last spring.


I installed one today and was told that they are UL tested but not listed if that makes any sense? Did the inspector see the tie rap used as a retainer clip?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

The frames of portable generators are required to be connected to a grounding electrode due to 250.34A, which under A2 requires all non-current carrying parts and the EGC to be connected to the generator frame. Things get worse when you look at 590.6A3 requires said portable generators, if under 15kW, will have ground fault protection integral with the unit or as a listed cord set for gennys made prior to January 1st, 2011. Thus, the ground and neutral must be electrically separate, or else the GFI protection will trip immediately, for obvious reasons. This was brought up in my NH state code update class, and included a copy of the UL whitebook listing for portable generators <15kW. 

This happens to be a code update I don't really plan to follow, because I don't see the benefit in it as far as safety goes. In my opinion, the interlock kits, or the Gentran double throw breakers are safe as can be under the circumstances during which they are utilized.


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## Gamit (Dec 30, 2009)

Gamit said:


> I installed one today and was told that they are UL tested but not listed if that makes any sense? Did the inspector see the tie rap used as a retainer clip?


By the way I didn't have a long enough pilot bit to get though the wall without blowing it out on the inside  mason was on site


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Gamit said:


> I installed one today and was told that they are UL tested but not listed if that makes any sense? Did the inspector see the tie rap used as a retainer clip?


Yeah..... lol..... the tie wrap is a joke. :laughing:

The inlet box looks different from what I use (Reliance PB30). 

What manufacturer are you using there?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Gamit said:


> By the way I didn't have a long enough pilot bit to get though the wall without blowing it out on the inside  mason was on site


That's an easy enough fix. Amazing how quickly we become jack of all trades when something bad happens. I don't mind busted up walls and ceilings, but watch out for water pipes, drain pipes, and gas lines. They're a bit less forgiving if you hit one of those.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> The Homeline Type? I did not know that they made one for HOM.
> 
> Interesting: HOM interlock kit
> 
> Have you used them before? I thought the Interlockkit.com type was easy as far as installation goes. But $90 bucks is $90 bucks. :whistling2:


Square D makes `em for both Homeline and QO panels. The bracket is interchangeable, too.

Less than $60 VS $150 makes all the difference to me too.


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## Gamit (Dec 30, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Yeah..... lol..... the tie wrap is a joke. :laughing:
> 
> The inlet box looks different from what I use (Reliance PB30).
> 
> What manufacturer are you using there?


http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/images.php?products_id=1030

Midwest makes it. It is a little larger but very nice in the way that it works like a in use cover


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> P.S. ^^ This what the meter lock looks like on a new 200 amp meter pan.


Does the POCO put those locks on all the meter sockets down there?

Does not seem to be a good idea if there is an emergency you have to waste time cutting that off first.:no:


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## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

Nothing at all wrong with your work, but personally, I won't use those cover mounted interlock kits. It's transfer switches or I walk. You can't imagine how many houses I walk into that have panel covers off and lost or sitting on the floor somewhere. Yeah, I've lost a couple jobs to guys doing it this way, but I sleep better at night.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Whatevva said:


> Nothing at all wrong with your work, but personally, I won't use those cover mounted interlock kits. It's transfer switches or I walk. You can't imagine how many houses I walk into that have panel covers off and lost or sitting on the floor somewhere. Yeah, I've lost a couple jobs to guys doing it this way, but I sleep better at night.


Transfer switch with a portable generator is silly


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Transfer switch with a portable generator is silly



Our poco doesn't think so. :laughing:

http://www.duke-energy.com/north-carolina/outages/generators.asp


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## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Transfer switch with a portable generator is silly


 
Can you explain why it's silly? So it's ok to backfeed 7500 watts to POCO but not 10K?


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## oldschool (Aug 2, 2008)

Ron,
what type of gen are you using?
neutral bonded?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I am guessing he means Gentran and Reliance made products. I tend not to use them either, I like the panel mounted ones and I only use the other for people who can't comprehend how turn things off etc, which is fine, a sale is a sale. I have one sitting next to me waiting to be installed.


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## oldschool (Aug 2, 2008)

Dont most portable generators now have the neutral and ground bonded?

When using these interlock kits on the main and not also switching the neutral, (as in say a 3 pole transfer switch) do inspectors not have an issue with double bonding?

never did one, just askin


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Whatevva said:


> Can you explain why it's silly? So it's ok to backfeed 7500 watts to POCO but not 10K?


 

My statement had nothing to do with backfeeding. I meant it's useless to have an automatic transfer switch if the entire system isn't automatic. 


Portable generator=manual transfer
Permanent generator=automatic transfer


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## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> My statement had nothing to do with backfeeding. I meant it's useless to have an automatic transfer switch if the entire system isn't automatic.
> 
> 
> Portable generator=manual transfer
> Permanent generator=automatic transfer


I never said automatic...I like the reliance 10 circuit panels for portables...they're pretty much idiot proof


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Whatevva said:


> Nothing at all wrong with your work, but personally, I won't use those cover mounted interlock kits. It's transfer switches or I walk. You can't imagine how many houses I walk into that have panel covers off and lost or sitting on the floor somewhere. Yeah, I've lost a couple jobs to guys doing it this way, but I sleep better at night.


Those of us that will do them thank you . :thumbup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Notice the grounding block beneath the meter with nothing going to it?
> 
> The HO looked at me like I had 6 heads when I informed him it was necessary.


I'm looking at you the same way. Why did you put that there?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I'm looking at you the same way. Why did you put that there?


Because it's required. Thats how they play it around here. They must teach them this in electrical inspector school. I suppose the grounding block would be good if the guy ever installed a satellite dish and needed to ground it to the system.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Because it's required. Thats how they play it around here. They must teach them this in electrical inspector school. I suppose the grounding block would be good if the guy ever installed a satellite dish and needed to ground it to the system.


Don't get me started with the dammed satellite dish system they go crazy with ground and more than half of the satellite guys don't even know what the putin ( F< ) they are doing there.

The last one I have a call due the satellite guy did hit few conductors and end up replace few of them.

Merci,
Marc


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Because it's required. Thats how they play it around here. They must teach them this in electrical inspector school. I suppose the grounding block would be good if the guy ever installed a satellite dish and needed to ground it to the system.


I know it's required. But why _there_. It looks like crap.


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## drm (Apr 29, 2008)

Gamit said:


> I installed one today and was told that they are UL tested but not listed if that makes any sense? Did the inspector see the tie rap used as a retainer clip?


When we install these we always put the warning label on the gen breaker.If the panel cover is removed by someone not familiar with these they can still see the warning.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I know it's required. But why _there_. It looks like crap.


How would you have installed it? :whistling2:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> How would you have installed it? :whistling2:


IMO, most service upgrades such as yours probably don't require one. That said I would have put it closer to, or even on the meter can. I might also put it inside next to the panel which wouldn't work in your case.

What is your ISBT connected to?


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Does the POCO put those locks on all the meter sockets down there?
> Does not seem to be a good idea if there is an emergency you have to waste time cutting that off first.:no:


PSE&G = yes 
JCP&L = no
Atlantic City electric = I don't know
PSE&G have been using those barrel locks since I started in '84. The older round meter socket has one on the ring that holds it to the base. I have only installed square/rectangle sockets in my time. You cannot cut the lock, it is hardened. You have to cut everything else. It has happened when the meter reader has re-locked it after it was un-locked for a service change. And also at moms house where there was no permit


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> The frames of portable generators are required to be connected to a grounding electrode due to 250.34A, which under A2 requires all non-current carrying parts and the EGC to be connected to the generator frame. Things get worse when you look at 590.6A3 requires said portable generators, if under 15kW, will have ground fault protection integral with the unit or as a listed cord set for gennys made prior to January 1st, 2011. Thus, the ground and neutral must be electrically separate, or else the GFI protection will trip immediately, for obvious reasons. This was brought up in my NH state code update class, and included a copy of the UL whitebook listing for portable generators <15kW.
> 
> This happens to be a code update I don't really plan to follow, because I don't see the benefit in it as far as safety goes. In my opinion, the interlock kits, or the Gentran double throw breakers are safe as can be under the circumstances during which they are utilized.


Go back and reread 250.34 (A) look at the part that say "shall not be required to be connected........"


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## oldschool (Aug 2, 2008)

So to you guys that are installing these interlocks on the main service

Are you supplying the generators? or just giving the HO a interlock and power inlet with a 30 amp feed?

If they are supplying the generator do you tell them *not *to get one with full panel GFCI protection?

Do you tell them to *not* get a generator with the neutral bonded?

What if the generator they get is like *most* (i think, i have two and both of them are) with the neutral bonded? Is there any concern with objectional current on the ground due to being bonded twice?

Those Reliance and Gentral panels are all over the place. None of those switch the neutral either unless it is retrofitted with a neutral switching relay, and i think those are around to solve the GFCI problems with the newer generators. 


There is an article at generators direct that says *dont worry* about objectionable current on the ground. *Dont* remove the bond from your generator. Portable gen sets have been installed this way for years with no problems.

What am i missing? Can most of these installs be wrong?


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> IMO, most service upgrades such as yours probably don't require one. That said I would have put it closer to, or even on the meter can. I might also put it inside next to the panel which wouldn't work in your case.
> 
> What is your ISBT connected to?


I agree it should have been mounted to the meter socket.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I suspect most utilities don't want anything attached to their equipment, at least ours doesn't.

Thats where I put mine, underneath. I like the ones that have the 1/2 pvc hub on them. PSNH wants a ground in the meter so it works fine on the way to the ground rods.


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