# Use of plastic spacers on metalic boxes.



## jimk7525 (Dec 12, 2012)

Is the use of caterpillars or non metalic spacers in a commercial project, to properly space a receptacle to a metalic outlet recessed more than a 1/4" legal?
As taught in the trade growing up, I was told to use copper spacers for metallic boxes. I would think non metalic spacers were more for non metalic outlets as used in residential.
Been bouncing back and forth in the book, any help would be appreciated.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I have never even _heard of_ a copper box extension ring.

There's nothing saying you can't use a non-metallic extension: Your bonding is still either through your EGC or the mounting screw if it's a self-grounding device.


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## jimk7525 (Dec 12, 2012)

Wording was wrong. Use of a copper spacer to a mud ring. Thank you for your reply


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Spacers of any type that exceed 1/4" are a violation. The box or ring is not permitted to be set back more than 1/4" from the finished surface.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Spacers of any type that exceed 1/4" are a violation. The box or ring is not permitted to be set back more than 1/4" from the finished surface.


 I don't believe that's accurate. An excessive gap is note allowed to exist _after _the extender is installed. It's fine for the extender to be used as designed to fill a >1/4" gap where one exists.


> *314.20 In Wall or Ceiling.*
> In walls or ceilings with a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum, plaster, or other noncombustible material, boxes employing a ﬂush-type cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will not be set back of the ﬁnished surface more than 6 mm (⁄4 in.).
> 
> In walls and ceilings constructed of wood or other combustible surface material, boxes, plaster rings, extension rings, or listed extenders shall be ﬂush with the ﬁnished surface or project therefrom.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The OP is talking about using copper caterpillars, which is #14 or #12 solid copper wire, wound around a phillips screwdriver shaft. You nip off the length you need to serve as a spacer on the device screw. Versus the little square plastic click together spacer washers you can buy as premade device shims. Neither are listed box extensions. Just shim washers.


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## jimk7525 (Dec 12, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> The OP is talking about using copper caterpillars, which is #14 or #12 solid copper wire, wound around a phillips screwdriver shaft. You nip off the length you need to serve as a spacer on the device screw. Versus the little square plastic click together spacer washers you can buy as premade device shims. Neither are listed box extensions. Just shim washers.


Thank you.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> The OP is talking about using copper caterpillars, which is #14 or #12 solid copper wire, wound around a phillips screwdriver shaft....


 Oh. I always just used a cut-in-half plastic anchor.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i use plastic( think) tubing, or metal brake line for heavy duty.


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

I like to keep some of these handy.

IMO they look more professional than a wire nut or coil.

Use a single one to space a decora device from tile or granite just enough to be able to use a normal plate screw.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Big John said:


> I don't believe that's accurate. An excessive gap is note allowed to exist _after _the extender is installed. It's fine for the extender to be used as designed to fill a >1/4" gap where one exists.


I don't see what is being talked about here as a box extender. I am just seeing some type of spacer being installed on the device screw between the box and the yoke.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Barjack said:


> I like to keep some of these handy.
> 
> IMO they look more professional than a wire nut or coil.
> 
> Use a single one to space a decora device from tile or granite just enough to be able to use a normal plate screw.


I use 'em and love 'em -- but I could not get over their price tag. 

It is a product that does save on installation time -- big time. So, I pay up.


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## Eddie702 (Aug 7, 2015)

I use 8-32 nuts over the #6 screws for spacers. Keeps metal-metal contact between yoke and box and threads in nuts keep them from falling of screws


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

I think your green wire between green screws would be considered the actual bond between yoke and box right?


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## elecpatsfan (Oct 1, 2010)

I've used buchanon crimps too.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

jimk7525 said:


> Is the use of caterpillars or non metalic spacers in a commercial project, to properly space a receptacle to a metalic outlet *recessed more than a 1/4"* legal?
> As taught in the trade growing up, I was told to use copper spacers for metallic boxes. I would think non metalic spacers were more for non metalic outlets as used in residential.
> Been bouncing back and forth in the book, any help would be appreciated.


If the OP is just speaking of a shim or spacer to bring the device forward so the plate fits correctly , then the answer to his question is : NO

The reason is in his OP. I put it in bold red above.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The Arlington sleeves usually solve it best. I haven't tried the larger version yet. I usually carry ten or more and some long 6-32 screws.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

jimk7525 said:


> Is the use of caterpillars or non metalic spacers in a commercial project, to properly space a receptacle to a metalic outlet recessed more than a 1/4" legal?
> As taught in the trade growing up, I was told to use copper spacers for metallic boxes. I would think non metalic spacers were more for non metalic outlets as used in residential.
> Been bouncing back and forth in the book, any help would be appreciated.


The need for proper BONDING is spelled out pretty well in the code. All other is a shortcut and possibly not in conformance.


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## dielectricunion (Nov 29, 2012)

So, if no separate EGC is installed in an EMT raceway wiring system, devices are only properly "self grounded" if the yoke is flush with the box/mudring/listed box extender?

If the devices used are the basic cheapo duplex receptacles, then they must be separately pigtailed to the box to be grounded?

The wiring I used to see in Chicago residential never had redundant EGC and most devices I came across were standard and did not have the copper self grounding thingy on the yoke. 

I always assumed any device was okay, so I need to get my code straight so I don't make that mistake (if it is one)


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Pro Tip.
Use 5/8" mudrings on 1/2" drywall jobs and 3/4" rings on 5/8" drywall jobs and the need for spacers will vanish.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Eddie702 said:


> I use 8-32 nuts over the #6 screws for spacers. Keeps metal-metal contact between yoke and box and threads in nuts keep them from falling of screws


And when the receptacle is pulled they fall everywhere.


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## Elec tricka (Jun 12, 2015)

Unless you stick the you stick the screw retainer thingy on the back of your long 6/32 it holds your spacer on also.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Tubing for less than 1/4" and Arlington BE1's for wood or more than 1/4".


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

dielectricunion said:


> So, if no separate EGC is installed in an EMT raceway wiring system, devices are only properly "self grounded" if the yoke is flush with the box/mudring/listed box extender?
> 
> If the devices used are the basic cheapo duplex receptacles, then they must be separately pigtailed to the box to be grounded?
> 
> ...


They need to be self grounding, pigtails or mounted on surface mount (raised) covers.


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