# ats ?



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

What manufacture? 
It should work, I have seen quite a few 4 poles with no neutral and asked the same question . Why waste the money?


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

brian john said:


> What manufacture?
> It should work, I have seen quite a few 4 poles with no neutral and asked the same question . Why waste the money?


i would have to look Monday, but i want to say it Genset.
its not as much a money issue to me, i have alot of wire on hand, i put a #3 to cover any issues, obviously the controls would never need that.
its more or less if there were controls in the ats that required 120.
i will not connect the #3 until im paid for it as i did not have to pull
it per the plans, i am trying to be proactive at the moment.
thanks


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

brian john said:


> What manufacture?
> It should work, I have seen quite a few 4 poles with no neutral and asked the same question . Why waste the money?


 i found a few pics of the generator, Cummings obviously


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

Smoke said:


> encountered a situation yesterday for the first time.
> 4 pole ats and 3 ph no neutral feeds as per spec/print (not sure why they wasted money on the 4p ats).
> i see a control wire attached to the neutral so i was unclear as to what i should do. my issue was, would the ats work properly presuming it is looking for some input/a neutral, from the neutral which were were not providing.
> it is a 400a ats, so i decided to pull a reduced neutral from the normal and emergency, even though there would be no load wires, to satisfy any control needs.
> any thoughts?


Around here anytime you have a sds (gen, solar) the pco makes you switch the neutral at the ats. If you are not using their system then they want you completely disconnected from them to avoid back feed.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

tates1882 said:


> Around here anytime you have a sds (gen, solar) the pco makes you switch the neutral at the ats. If you are not using their system then they want you completely disconnected from them to avoid back feed.


that's not required in this area, we use 3p mostly. its an obvious oversight by the engineer on this project. the other 2 ats's serve panels and have neutrals, this one serves a ups. on this project we are the poco, all the hv lines/poles etc are owned by the customer, we do everything from the 35kv lines right into the building.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

tates1882 said:


> Around here anytime you have a sds (gen, solar) the pco makes you switch the neutral at the ats. If you are not using their system then they want you completely disconnected from them to avoid back feed.


That's because the engineers do not know their butts from an electron...DOLTS

And if you use a 3 pole ATS with a 4-wire system it is not an SDS.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Depending on the switch it could see the missing neutral as a fault and signal a generator start. I know some you can change the programing to match either a Delta or Wye source.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Depending on the switch it could see the missing neutral as a fault and signal a generator start. I know some you can change the programing to match either a Delta or Wye source.


And some have proprietary software and only the manufacture can reprogram them.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

brian john said:


> And some have proprietary software and only the manufacture can reprogram them.


it will likely be a few weeks or a month before we do the start up,
ill reply back when the time comes...


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