# Very scary for the trade...



## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

cdnelectrician said:


> Power over ethernet lighting....it's here.
> 
> " Because the power is carried over low-voltage wiring, an electrician is not required to install the system"
> 
> http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...eals-ethernet-powered-ssl-project-at-l-b.html


Fortuneately that is still electrical work here and only electrical contractors can install that.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

There is also a low voltage system being sold by ceiling grid manufacturers. Similar questions as to who can install it.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

this is great!

I knew becoming a Low voltage electrician was a good idea. lol


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> There is also a low voltage system being sold by ceiling grid manufacturers. Similar questions as to who can install it.


Here you must have at least a (C) class license to install it, all (A) class Master electricians can contract that because it does require an electrical permit:thumbsup:


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

One company called Lunera makes a 4pin LED direct replacement where you leave the existing CFL ballast in place. They also make low voltage 2x2 troffers that are POE. Still have to run power to their switch, and it has limited range and capacity. Still need electrical for that application, and it's lighting only. Still have to run power down the walls. 

It hasn't caught on, so they aren't marketing it further I'm told. Might be awhile before something like that catches on.


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

You will always need to continue your education and adapt or be left behind regardless of what you are doing.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Lighting Retro said:


> One company called Lunera makes a 4pin LED direct replacement where you leave the existing CFL ballast in place. They also make low voltage 2x2 troffers that are POE. Still have to run power to their switch, and it has limited range and capacity. Still need electrical for that application, and it's lighting only. Still have to run power down the walls.
> 
> It hasn't caught on, so they aren't marketing it further I'm told. Might be awhile before something like that catches on.


Why oh why? LED bulbs suck. You'll never get the performance like the CREE CR6 which is delivered lumen and since the trim is actually attached to the LED, it runs very cool, which is important to reduce degradation.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Good thing there will never be power over ethernet 150 HP motors.


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## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Good thing there will never be power over ethernet 150 HP motors.


Right. Everything from POE switches on down to sewage ejector pumps demand big amps and electricians.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Black Dog said:


> Here you must have at least a (C) class license to install it, all (A) class Master electricians can contract that because it does require an electrical permit:thumbsup:


A class C license is required to install security and fire alarm systems. There is no license required to install voice, data, or video in the state of MA (permits and inspections are still required however). This (ethernet cabling) would fall under the VDV class of wiring, thus no license needed. Also, you do not need a Master electricians license to pull permits for this work. There are many companies, some of them having quite a few employees, that do VDV cabling everyday and not one person in the entire company has any type of electrical license. Again, no license needed at all for this type of work.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I wonder what current level the POE switches start to shut down at? Can't be much. 

Reminds me of the old Mike Sandman catalog where he had 48vdc phone line powered razors, flashlights, dildo vibrators, dust busters, etc. I don't think they ever caught on.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I wonder what current level the POE switches start to shut down at? Can't be much.
> 
> Reminds me of the old Mike Sandman catalog where he had 48vdc phone line powered razors, flashlights, dildo vibrators, dust busters, etc. I don't think they ever caught on.


I'm not sure what the POE switches can put out but I've installed a buttload of POE cameras to one switch and to my knowledge it hasn't exploded yet.

That being said, it operated at 48 VDC and I think the cameras drew very little power. Like 1/4 amp or some such. Could be wrong, I don't remember.

Good article on POE switch and/or injector limitations, and the author looks kind of hot.

http://blog.adiglobal.us/poe-calculations-and-switchinjector-limitations-part-one


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

erics37 said:


> and the author looks kind of hot.


You have pretty low standards


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> There is also a low voltage system being sold by ceiling grid manufacturers. Similar questions as to who can install it.


Not according to the state electrical inspectors. We are responsible for the installation of anything pertaining to electric heat, light or power according to state statute. The POE lighting is the same thang.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Good thing I know how to fix fax machines as a back up plan.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> Not according to the state electrical inspectors. We are responsible for the installation of anything pertaining to electric heat, light or power according to state statute. The POE lighting is the same thang.


It has already become a problem here. 
A lot of this new led lighting stuff takes network cables, which is low voltage work.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Our trade group had one of them in to demonstrate the system at the last meeting. I missed that due to a colonoscopy. Yes, I agree that's what the state says on paper. Its whether the local folks will hold to that.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> Our trade group had one of them in to demonstrate the system at the last meeting. I missed that due to a colonoscopy. Yes, I agree that's what the state says on paper. Its whether the local folks will hold to that.


Maybe we can get the state electrical board to send out a memo or something to the AHJs? It's definitely something we need to worry about in the next decade or so. I don't want to see the drop ceiling guys and networking guys chewing up our slice of the pie, ya know?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Some of the discussion has been about the fact that often on large jobs the lighting package is provided to us anyway. In this case unless we want to become ceiling grid installers, we may be left bringing power to some point in the ceiling and that's where it ends.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

EBFD6 said:


> You have pretty low standards


Getting lower every day that I'm not getting the laids.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> I don't want to see the drop ceiling guys and networking guys chewing up our slice of the pie, ya know?


It's not really the intent of AHJ to defend the territory or represent the interest of particular trades. 

Pipe fitters vs plumbers
Electricians vs low voltage tech

and so forth.


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## Stickshaker (Jun 29, 2012)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Good thing there will never be power over ethernet 150 HP motors.


Oh, I beg to differ. To the electricians of yesteryear, even that screen in front of you was an impossibility. But it definitely won't happen before WE retire!:thumbsup:


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## Ontario (Sep 9, 2013)

I think it's time to get my 442A, eh?


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## shocksystems (Apr 25, 2009)

EBFD6 said:


> A class C license is required to install security and fire alarm systems. There is no license required to install voice, data, or video in the state of MA (permits and inspections are still required however). This (ethernet cabling) would fall under the VDV class of wiring, thus no license needed. Also, you do not need a Master electricians license to pull permits for this work. There are many companies, some of them having quite a few employees, that do VDV cabling everyday and not one person in the entire company has any type of electrical license. Again, no license needed at all for this type of work.


Interesting, I was under the same understanding as Harry, (that installing ethernet cables would require a license in the State of MA). Do you have a reference for where I can read about that exception? I have looked the MA State Board website over and read through some documents and googled some but I cannot find confirmation of this.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers!

Jim


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## Bondingbro (Oct 16, 2014)

plug and play cat5... get these weenie wires outa here


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## shocksystems (Apr 25, 2009)

shocksystems said:


> Interesting, I was under the same understanding as Harry, (that installing ethernet cables would require a license in the State of MA). Do you have a reference for where I can read about that exception? I have looked the MA State Board website over and read through some documents and googled some but I cannot find confirmation of this.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> ...


Never mind, I found the exception. Mass General Law Chapter 141, Section 7. "Section 7. This chapter shall not apply to ..... the work in connection with the installation, construction, maintenance, repair and renovation of telephone equipment, cable television service or computer systems by a person, firm or corporation primarily engaged in the telecommunications or the information systems industry.".

Thanks for pointing this out EBFD6. I learned something new.

Cheers!

Jim


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Electric_Light said:


> It's not really the intent of AHJ to defend the territory or represent the interest of particular trades.
> 
> Pipe fitters vs plumbers
> Electricians vs low voltage tech
> ...



Depends EL

If the work requires a permit, are they not obligated to vet those involved as bona fide?

~CS~


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## Awseay (Aug 19, 2014)

I am the master electrician for a low voltage company. We do quite a bit of low voltage lighting control. Still a lot of #12 to run.


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