# Within 18 Inches of termination?



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Someone is blowing a bunch of smoke at you .... :blink:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

kbsparky said:


> Someone is blowing a bunch of smoke at you .... :blink:


I've been hearing this code from New Orleans to Philadelphia.

Did someone just make this up and it stuck?


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I have _never_ heard of such a requirement FWIW. I've been in business for over 30 years, and licensed in 3 different states.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

kbsparky said:


> I have _never_ heard of such a requirement FWIW. I've been in business for over 30 years, and licensed in 3 different states.


I agree, I have never heard of an 18" rule.

Chris


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## RxScram (Aug 26, 2009)

There's 330.30(B), which says that cables containing 4 or less conductors have to be secured within 12" of a termination, but I haven't found an 18" rule anywhere, either.


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## Jsmit319 (Sep 23, 2010)

Correct: No such animal. 330.30(D)(2) is intended for fixture whips, receptacles, etc. in a suspended ceiling where it's difficult to find proper support, so that's why the permission for an unsupported cable no more than 6' in length.
Otherwise, 330.30(B), and 330.30(C) apply.


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## DIRT27 (Aug 25, 2010)

I think there are a ton of guys out there that don't know the code book. The funny thing is that 18" won't cover everything. After being taught a certain way they assume it is code with no reference. I have heard the 18" reference also, but it is not a code and I don't know how many guys in the company I work for think you are required to have a PB on all 1" conduit fittings or you must use grounding bushings in the panel.

I think the grounding bushing thing came from a few big jobs we did that was required in the specs, now guys think you have to use them everywhere.


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## bryan176 (Sep 26, 2010)

DIRT27 said:


> I think there are a ton of guys out there that don't know the code book. The funny thing is that 18" won't cover everything. After being taught a certain way they assume it is code with no reference. I have heard the 18" reference also, but it is not a code and I don't know how many guys in the company I work for think you are required to have a PB on all 1" conduit fittings or you must use grounding bushings in the panel.
> 
> I think the grounding bushing thing came from a few big jobs we did that was required in the specs, now guys think you have to use them everywhere.


250.92 Services. 
*(A)* *Bonding of Services.* The non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment indicated in 250.92(A)(1), (2), and (3) shall be effectively bonded together. 

(1) The service raceways, cable trays, cablebus framework, auxiliary gutters, or service cable armor or sheath except as permitted in 250.84. 

(2) All service enclosures containing service conductors, including meter fittings, boxes, or the like, interposed in the service raceway or armor. 

*(3) Any metallic raceway or armor enclosing a grounding electrode conductor as specified in **250.64(B)**. Bonding shall apply at each end and to all intervening raceways, boxes, and enclosures between the service equipment and the grounding electrode.*


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

bryan176 said:


> 250.92 Services.
> *(A)* *Bonding of Services.* The non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment indicated in 250.92(A)(1), (2), and (3) shall be effectively bonded together.
> 
> (1) The service raceways, cable trays, cablebus framework, auxiliary gutters, or service cable armor or sheath except as permitted in 250.84.
> ...



How does what you posted apply to supporting mc cable within 18 inches?:001_huh:


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> How does what you posted apply to supporting mc cable within 18 inches?:001_huh:


It probably applies to the post he quoted. :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

18" rule? :blink::confused1:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

crazyboy said:


> It probably applies to the post he quoted. :laughing:




Guess I should of read ALL of the post he quoted....:whistling2:


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## RxScram (Aug 26, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Guess I should of read ALL of the post he quoted....:whistling2:


Still seemed pretty random though. Especially for a users first post.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

RxScram said:


> Still seemed pretty random though. Especially for a users first post.




It did to me anyway.  Turns out it wasn't I guess.:laughing:


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## DIRT27 (Aug 25, 2010)

bryan176 said:


> 250.92 Services.
> *(A)* *Bonding of Services.* The non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment indicated in 250.92(A)(1), (2), and (3) shall be effectively bonded together.
> 
> (1) The service raceways, cable trays, cablebus framework, auxiliary gutters, or service cable armor or sheath except as permitted in 250.84.
> ...


Doesn't (3) apply to conduit enclosing the grounding electrode conductor?

Providing there is no concentric knock out I do not use bonding bushings on branch circuits. It doesn't make any sense. 

Sorry to let this topic get off track.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I would have told the guy 6' for lights in a drop ceiling and he'd have gotten his panties in a bunch : ) 18" for MC? What kinda crack is he on.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Have you corrected the "old joker" yet and did you get the job?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

The "old joker" is 29, and no I haven't mentioned it yet. It's a company of young guys bar the two business owners.

And yes, I got the job, and my first day went well, maybe because taps weren't involved. :shifty:

They're mostly commercial/service.

More importantly, they're working around my school schedule.


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

The only thing I see is for raceway-supported enclosures that contain devices or luminaires in 314.23, F or where the conduits enter the same side of a raceway supported enclosure in 314.23,E.
These make reference to RMC and IMC conduits being secured within 18" of an enclosure, but there are some exceptions. 
Nothing on MC or EMT though.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I hear it often 'round here.. I know better. I was told at one company it was 12 inches ... asked em to show me in my brand new code book and almost lost my job.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

nolabama said:


> I hear it often 'round here.. I know better. I was told at one company it was 12 inches ... asked em to show me in my brand new code book and almost lost my job.


I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a good rule of thumb in a lot of cases. Better above code, than below it. But it seems a lot of these guys were told once early in their careers (probably spec.), to do it, and they never questioned it since. And since it's above code, I doubt anyone would call them out on it unless the job was bid to use less material.

And yeah 'Bama, it's New Orleans where I heard it all the time. I was just shocked to hear it up here too. Made me question its validity.


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## pesdfw (Jun 23, 2010)

Ask the guy for a reference that says 18" ... In the NEC code book ... Not in written in pen or pencil


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

Classic example of a pompous idiot overcompensating for something that happen when he was 12.......


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

I know when I took the states' test for licensing, there were several made up codes that were counted wrong on my test. I used the scrap paper provided to write down three of them with answers. After the test, I looked up these three and found my answers were correct. but not according to the state test.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

LARMGUY said:


> I know when I took the states' test for licensing, there were several made up codes that were counted wrong on my test. I used the scrap paper provided to write down three of them with answers. After the test, I looked up these three and found my answers were correct. but not according to the state test.


Ain't it just great to see your tax dollars being put to good use? :no:


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## CFine (May 20, 2008)

If i remember Right. 348.30.1 Exp 3. but that is for greenfeild. MC/AC aren't allowed to be used here in omaha, but i see no exception or rule that moves strapping MC/AC to 18". it just states securing it 12" from the box then no more then 4.5' and AC being based on the number of conductors. but AC states in 320.30.d.3 would be my guess as well tho.

My rule as an apprentice is, i do what the Journeymen says No matter how much i disagree or hate it. but if i know it violates the code i'll ask him why are we doing it this way if it violates such and such article. i usually get told for X reason and i just ask if he knows the article so i know where to look for learning. i don't try to smart off or sound like a know it all tho


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

CFine said:


> My rule as an apprentice is, i do what the Journeymen says No matter how much i disagree or hate it. but if i know it violates the code i'll ask him why are we doing it this way if it violates such and such article. i usually get told for X reason and i just ask if he knows the article so i know where to look for learning. i don't try to smart off or sound like a know it all tho


Good rule.

If they want me to do something that violates code, I _might_ mention it. But if anybody else questions why I did it, I'll direct them straight to the jman! :laughing:


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## gardiner (Sep 25, 2007)

I heard it before and I asked a few of the ones saying it just what code they are reciting. One smart a** came back (I believe after a great deal of code searching) with strapping 12 inches from the box and 6 inches of wire left in the box gives you 18 inches. 

There is a explanation for everything, including old legends, just no one ever said they had to be rational.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

gardiner said:


> One smart a** came back (I believe after a great deal of code searching) with strapping 12 inches from the box and 6 inches of wire left in the box gives you 18 inches.


:mellow:


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Here's a little NEC trivia on MC cable supports-

Until the 1993 code cycle the only mention of supports for metal clad cable was :
Type MC cable shall be supported and secured at intervals not exceeding 6 feet

In the 1993 code they added the following 2 exceptions:
Exception No. 1 -
Where installed as branch circuits in dwelling units, Type MC cable shall be secured within 12" from every outlet box,junction box, cabinet, or fitting

Exception No. 2 - Where type MC cable is fished

It was in the 1999 Code that they created the support rules we use to this day in the 2008 code.


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## daviddwilson (Oct 6, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> The "old joker" is 29, and no I haven't mentioned it yet. It's a company of young guys bar the two business owners.
> 
> And yes, I got the job, and my first day went well, maybe because taps weren't involved. :shifty:
> 
> ...


The only thing I see is for raceway-supported enclosures that contain devices or luminaires in 314.23, F or where the conduits enter the same side of a raceway supported enclosure in 314.23,E.
These make reference to RMC and IMC conduits being secured within 18" of an enclosure, but there are some exceptions. 
Nothing on MC or EMT though.


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

daviddwilson said:


> The only thing I see is for raceway-supported enclosures that contain devices or luminaires in 314.23, F or where the conduits enter the same side of a raceway supported enclosure in 314.23,E.
> These make reference to RMC and IMC conduits being secured within 18" of an enclosure, but there are some exceptions.
> Nothing on MC or EMT though.


 
Hmmm... Thanks daviddwilson... I couldn’t of said it better myself.
Oh wait... I already did. :001_huh:
Is there an echo in here?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Update:

Here's something I stumbled upon when trying to determine whether or not it was code compliant to use installed raceways as a means to support other raceways.

314.23 (E) and (F)

(E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, *Without* Devices, Luminaires, or Lampholders.
An enclosure that does not contain device(s) other than splicing devices or support a luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported by entering raceways, shall not exceed 100in.*3 in size. It shall have threaded entries or have hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 3 ft of the enclosure, or within *18 in* of the enclosure if all conduit entries are on the same side.

(F) Raceway-Supported Enclosures, *with* devices, luminaires, or lampholders.

----------------------shall be supported by two or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within *18 in.* of the enclosure.


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