# 38x17 foot room how many Lotus?



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

On your 17' dimension, go three rows 68" apart and 34" from the wall. On your 38' dimension, go seven rows 65" apart and 33" from the wall. 21 fixtures.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

NDC, I know that 99cents is talking about 4". Is that what you were planning on using? Because I believe you have used the 6" in the past.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

HackWork said:


> NDC, I know that 99cents is talking about 4". Is that what you were planning on using? Because I believe you have used the 6" in the past.


I'm using 4"


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

99cents said:


> On your 17' dimension, go three rows 68" apart and 34" from the wall. On your 38' dimension, go seven rows 65" apart and 33" from the wall. 21 fixtures.


This is great thanks. You think it's a bad idea if I go with 6 rows instead and add more spacing from the walls?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

NDC said:


> This is great thanks. You think it's a bad ideaif I go with 6 rows instead and add more spacing from the walls?


Huh?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Huh?


He means to start the row the full 65" away from the wall which will cut it down to 6 rows instead of 7. I am wondering that too. Do you need them to be less than 3' off of the walls?


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

HackWork said:


> He means to start the row the full 65" away from the wall which will cut it down to 6 rows instead of 7. I am wondering that too. Do you need them to be less than 3' off of the walls?


Yes this exactly. I dont want Telsa to come in here and ask if its a grow op


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Your distance to the wall is always half the distance between fixtures.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Watch out when dealing with entertainment spaces.

There is a strong tendency to over illuminate them.

You don't want a 'warehouse// open office' look to the light fixtures.

You absolutely want provisions for dimming -- probably every location.

The area near the TV display should be thought of as its own space -- even though it's common space.

Surround sound speaker systems are also something to be considered.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Your distance to the wall is always half the distance between fixtures.


I know nothing about lighting design, but it just seems like that's a lot of lights and it seems like they are close to the wall @ less than 3'. 

I guess if it's too much a dimmer can take care of it pretty easily.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Consider wall-washing pot lights for the area behind the TV... to back light it. Put them on dimmers.

Sounds like another man-cave... so consider a dry bar or a wet bar, too.

You ought to be paid separately for designing the space... 'Cause this kind of effort is not trivial.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

telsa said:


> Consider wall-washing pot lights for the area behind the TV... to back light it. Put them on dimmers.
> 
> Sounds like another man-cave... so consider a dry bar or a wet bar, too.
> 
> You ought to be paid separately for designing the space... 'Cause this kind of effort is not trivial.


Yes great advice. You are correct I should charge for this work but I'm still green in this area so I'm chalking up as experience. If I try to charge for something like this around here in this saturated market, I will no get any work. When I'm busy I'll charge.
If I don't get the job, at least I'm getting something out of it and maybe the next layout I do will be easier and I won't miss as much.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

This basement will also have a bedroom. I know I have to add a smoke/strobe to the room but how are the existing smokes wired? Are they usually maxed out on their circuit? I'm assuming I have to tie into the existing alarms in the home and there is one at the bottom of the basement stairs.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/interior/


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

There are no basements in my town.

Fact of life.

But...

For you...

I'd recommend establishing yourself as an EXPERT in *man-caves*.

A man-cave is EXACTLY what the customers want to build to.

The SECOND you find out that a TV display is part of the scheme => man-cave.

Here, in my town, we have a LV contractor that is SOLELY oriented towards man-caves.

He's not starving.

Hint.

Usually he has to build the 'cave' in the first place. (!!!)

My immediate neighbor spent $140,000 on his man-cave.

It came with a pool, too.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I know nothing about lighting design, but it just seems like that's a lot of lights and it seems like they are close to the wall @ less than 3'.
> 
> I guess if it's too much a dimmer can take care of it pretty easily.


I relates to overlapping cones of light. You don't want circles of light on the floor. You want each cone to overlap halfway into the cones beside it. I tried to find an online diagram but couldn't find one.

You put fixtures closer to the wall since light will bounce back and maintain uniformity. I hope that all makes sense. :001_huh:

Recessed lighting started with retail and commercial and then moved into residential. Its purpose is to provide uniformity in light levels. Personally, I don't like uniformity in living spaces because you get a gymnasium effect. Shadow and light is much more natural. Telsa is absolutely correct. You want to provide switching options and dimming. The only time you want uniformity is when you're vacuuming the floor.

The Lithonia program is giving 18 foot candles at a 2.5' work plane with 21 of their wafer fixtures. That's close to ideal, maybe a little on the high side. I'm not sure if these are initial or maintained light levels but who knows what lumen depreciation is with LED's?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

To buttress 99....

Think of the lighting in a theater.

... in a bar.

Should you win such a job -- dang it -- take TONS of digital photos.

Before -- Rough-in -- pre-Trim -- Final -- the works.

Use such photos in your PORTFOLIO of work.

Yes, yes, yes... anyone dealing with the public HAS TO HAVE a portfolio of work.

Said portfolio is that of _completed_ work... _your_ work... _your_ art... _your_ craft.

Lack of your portfolio is holding you back from your righteous place in the economic order.

I do a lot of underground. So my best work is buried.

In a sense, every electrician's work is buried -- as it's invisible to our customers.

We install magic... that even a child can switch on.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What Lithonia program? Don't hold out on us!


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Post #15  .


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

I have one pot light, 6", in my 14x20 foot basement. Works nice.

Also have one of those 55" Samsung Smart TVs in the corner. The one that the Feds can turn on the mike and the the '_hidden camera_' that no one talks about yet.  It throws a ton of light actually.

TV sits on a 20" TV stand. Never could figure out why people hang the suckers on the wall. Mind you 99 has all the work so I watch CNN all day and my neck would be pretty stiff looking up all the time.

Back to the original question. Room is twice the size of mine, give him two lights. And a table light.

Well I'm underwired I guess.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

15 fixtures should work fine.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> 15 fixtures should work fine.


So would a headlamp strapped to your forehead.

In reality, the opaque lens on Lotus Lights have a lot of spread so you can probably get away with spreading them out. They're not nearly as directional as the old projector lamps.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> So would a headlamp strapped to your forehead.
> 
> In reality, the opaque lens on Lotus Lights have a lot of spread so you can probably get away with spreading them out. They're not nearly as directional as the old projector lamps.


I took that into consideration while setting up my model in my mind. 

Lights being 42" off the outer walls and 7' on center approximately at 8' AFF.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

This could be a good scenario for bronze/silver/gold:

Bronze - two fixtures so you don't walk into the sofa.
Silver - 15 fixtures so you don't trip over the cat.
Gold - 21 fixtures with even spacing and excellent uniformity.

At $110.00 per point:

2 X $110.00 = $240.00
15 X $110.00 = $1650.00
21 X $110.00 = $2310.00

It probably depends on if the job is in the ghetto or Mortgage Heights  .


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> This could be a good scenario for bronze/silver/gold:
> 
> Bronze - two fixtures so you don't walk into the sofa.
> Silver - 15 fixtures so you don't trip over the cat.
> ...


21 was it mentioned that it was a surgical suite?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> 21 was it mentioned that it was a surgical suite?


Duh. We're talking 18 fc.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Duh. We're talking 18 fc.


18fc=18 friggin cans?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents gets a commision for every Lotus light he gets us to install :laughing::thumbup:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> 99cents gets a commision for every Lotus light he gets us to install :laughing::thumbup:


I wish. If I was still in the lighting biz when those guys came along, I would have tied my ass to them and made a killing  .


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> 99cents gets a commision for every Lotus light he gets us to install :laughing::thumbup:


I can respect that, it's a part of the basis of free enterprise.

If only everyone wore the logos of their sponsors!:thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> I wish. If I was still in the lighting biz when those guys came along, I would have tied my ass to them and made a killing  .


"Tied, ass, and killing" three words that sound like they belong in a vastly different conversation. :whistling2:


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