# Old fluorescent ballasts from the 50s, 60s and 70s!



## The Lightman

M400APowrDoor said:


> I have a particular interest for old fluorescent ballasts, the older the better! I found most of them in the scrap metal container at the local recycle centre.! :blink:
> They've been made (from top to bottom) in 1971, 1962 and 1967. Here are two ballasts from 1964.
> Another one, also from 1964.


Wear rubber gloves while handling those.
I had a public works job for a suburb of Chicago. I was on the safety committee. I received a memo from the health department which explained about fluorescent ballast PCB's. That read something like this.
Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) have been used as coolants and lubricants in transformers, capacitors,
heating/cooling equipment, and other electrical equipment. PCBs have not been manufactured
in the United States since 1977, but may still be found in older electrical equipment and other
building materials, like *light ballasts.* PCBs have been associated with acne-like skin conditions in
adults and changes in the nervous and immune system in children. PCBs are also known to cause
cancer in laboratory animals and are probable human carcinogens.6 PCB or PCB-contaminated items
require proper off-site transport and disposal at a facility that can accept such wastes. Fluorescent light ballasts manufactured before 1978 may contain PCBs. Ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1978 should not contain PCBs and are required by law to contain a label that states that no PCBs are present within the units.
PCBs can be rapidly absorbed through the skin. Experts with the National Institute of Health speculate that, due to the transport of PCBs on dust particles, the current primary route of exposure of most people (non-fish-eaters) to PCBs is through skin exposure.
I had to the train the rest of the crew and give them respirator qualative fits test with banana oil. While they were in a plastic tent that I made according to specs, I had to time them running in place with a stop watch. Here is the protocol:
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10290


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## The Lightman

Within three weeks of getting the memo, I get a work order. Leaking ballast at the Senior center. Sure enough the ballast was pre '74 and leaking. I had to call it in. The fire department was called and the place was evacuated. Hazmat team borrowed my channel locks, strippers and nut driver. The contaminated ballast was removed by a side job fireman electrician. Then, it went through a series of kiddy pool treatments, along with my tools. I got them back about three months later.


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## The Lightman

The EPA shut down the building and took weekly ppm readings for about two months before anyone could enter the building. Then it was unlimited OT for the next eight months until every city building fluorescent ballast was replaced. We had to wear masks, suits, booties, like ghostbusters. The old ballasts were baggied and were shipped off in sealed drums.


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## MDShunk

Our tax dollars at work. Call me crazy, but I really think some of this stuff they go really overboard on.


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## The Lightman

Seeing those pics, flashed back the story. It was insane. After changing so many up to then, without a care. I got real fast, though after changing literately thousands.


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## The Lightman

*They got real serious*

The purpose of this fact sheet is to provide some basic information on chlorinates (PCBs) and guidelines for handling PCBs in fluorescent light fixtures. Though the precautionary actions described in this fact sheet may seem extreme, or suggest to some that cleanup of a small PCB spill is personally hazardous, this is not generally so. For example, if you should get a small amount of PCB on your skin during cleanup, it is highly unlikely that you would be harmed. However, given the nature of PCBs and the fact that much is still unknown about the effects of minor exposure, no absolute guarantees or reassurances can be given.
For that reason, EPA has chosen to describe a conservative approach which minimizes personal hazard. It is EPA’s hope that this information will inform you rather than alarm you.
What are PCBs
PCBs belong to a broad family organic chemicals known as chlorinated hydrocarbons. These are produced by the combination of one or more chlorine atoms and a biphenyl molecule. PCBs range in consistency from heavy oil liquids to waxy solids. Prior to 1979, PCBs were widely used in electrical equipment such as transformers, capacitors, switches and voltage
regulators for their “cooling” properties because they do not readily burn or conduct electricity, and only boil at high temperatures. Also, PCBs do not readily react with other chemicals. They were also used in mining equipment, heat transfer and hydraulic systems, carbonless copy paper, pigments and microscopy mounting media.
How Does EPA Regulate PCBs?
EPA regulates PCBs through rules issued pursuant to the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976. These regulations generally control the use, making, storage, records and disposal of PCBs. There are millions of pieces of equipment in operation in the U.S. which were manufactured prior to these regulations and which contain PCBs.
Small Capacitors in Fluorescent Light Ballast’s and Cause for Failure
Light ballast’s are the primary electric components of fluorescent light fixtures and are generally located within the fixture under a metal cover plate. The ballast units are generally composed of a transformer to reduce the incoming voltage, a small capacitor (which may contain PCBs) and possibly a thermal cut-off switch and/or safety fuse. These components are surrounded by a tarlike substance that is designed to muffle the noise that is inherent in the operation of the ballast. This substance covers the small capacitor. When a ballast unit fails, excessive heat can be generated which will melt or burn the tar material, creating a characteristic foul order.

www.deq.state.mi.us LANSING MI 
Small Capacitors in Fluorescent Light Ballast’s and Cause for Failure (continued) Light ballast’s are the primary electric components of fluorescent light fixtures and are generally located within the fixture under a metal cover plate. The ballast units are generally composed of a transformer to reduce the incoming voltage, a small capacitor (which may contain PCBs) and possibly a thermal cut-off switch and/or safety fuse. These components are surrounded by a tarlike substance that is designed to muffle the noise that is inherent in the operation of the ballast. This substance covers the small capacitor. When a ballast unit fails, excessive heat can be generated which will melt or burn the tar material, creating a characteristic foul order. In considering causes of ballast failure, some privately conducted tests have indicated that operation of power saving lamps with a standard ballast or standard lamps with a power-saving ballast tends to significantly increase the ballast operating temperature and decrease its normal life span. It appears that ballast’s will failless frequently if standard lamps are used only with standard bulbs and power-saving lamps with power-saving ballast’s. Fluorescent lamps should be changed in pairs: new lamps should not be used with old lamps. In considering causes of ballast failure, some privately conducted tests have indicated that operation of power saving lamps with a standard ballast or standard lamps with a power-saving ballast tends to significantly increase the ballast operating temperature and decrease its normal life span. It appears that ballast’s will fail less frequently if standard lamps are used only with standard bulbs and power-saving lamps with power-saving ballast’s. Fluorescent lamps should be changed in pairs: new lamps should not be used with old lamps.
Does Your Fluorescent Light Ballast Contain PCBs
Before EPA banned the manufacturing of PCBs in 1978, PCBs were used in the manufacturing of fluorescent light ballast’s. The use of PCBs in ballast’s manufactured prior to 1978 is not regulated by EPA. All light ballast’s manufactured since 1978 which do not contain PCBs should be marked by the manufacturer with the statement “No PCBs.” *For those ballast’s manufactures prior to 1978, or for those ballast’s which contain no statement regarding PCB content, you should assume that they do contain PCBs.*
If the ballast does contain PCBs, they are located inside the small capacitor. These would be approximately 1to 1 l/2 ounces of PCB fluid in the capacitor itself. If the ballast fails, the capacitor may break open, allowing the PCB oil to drip out of the fixture. The capacitor does not always leak when the ballast fails, but when it does happen, measures should be taken to limit or avoid personal exposure.
What Should I Do if My Light Ballast Leaks
EPA has these recommendations for anyone with fluorescent light ballast leaking PCBs:
1. Vacate the room or area immediately and open any windows to ventilate the room to the outside. If the incident occurred in a room which cannot be vented, the person replacing the failed ballast and cleaning up can reduce exposure by wearing a chemical cartridge respirator equipped with an organic vapor cartridge.
2. Turn off the light fixture at the switch and disconnect electricity at the fuse or breaker box. Let the ballast cool for 20-30 minutes before proceeding.
If the room is fully ventilated, the amount of PCB contaminated particulate matter in the air should decrease significantly enough to make negligible and risk from breathing.
3. Wear rubber gloves that will not absorb PCBs (e.g. neoprene, butyl, or nitrile). Further, if you will be working directly under the fixture, consider using additional protective gear such as goggles (or a face shield) and rubber apron to help guard against possible exposure from further leaking or cleanup activities. Exercise caution to avoid personal contamination’s (e.g. from touching your face with a contaminated glove).
4.During the cleanup or removal period, smoking should be prohibited in the area because smoking increases the inhalation rate of contaminated air. In addition, you may be using a flammable solvent in the cleanup.Remove the fluorescent lamp.
5. Recheck that the power is off at the fuse or breaker box. Remove the metal cover over the wiring and ballast unit, loosen the ballast unit by taking out the metal screws which hold it to the end of the fixture; cut the electrical wires going to the ballast and remove the ballast. Note: Wire connectors can be used when installing new ballast.
6. Proceed to clean up leaks using the following guidelines:
PCBs that leak onto nonabsorbent surfaces such as table tops and uncarpeted floors should first be cleaned up by wiping with a rag or paper towel or by scraping with a putty knife if hardened. Avoid smearing the PCB around. This would only contaminate a larger area. Surfaces should then be thoroughly cleaned twice using an appropriate solvent or detergent. Only certain solvents are effective in cleaning up spilled PCBs. These include mineral spirits, deodorized kerosene, turpentine and rubbing alcohol. Certain detergents containing trisodium phosphate (such as “Soilex” or “Spit ‘n Span”) may be used. However, they should be used only at full strength and applied with a damp rag rather than diluted in a bucket. That solution would become contaminated and cannot be legally disposed of in the sewer system. Some of the other effective detergent products (which are commercially available)
include “Triton X-l 00” (Rohm-Hass), “Sterox” (Monsanto), and “Power Cleaner 155” (Penetone Corp.). EPA does not endorse these particular products. Other effective products may also be available. For leaks onto absorbent material such as drapes and carpets, there is no reliable way to clean and decontaminate the material. In the case of rugs and fabrics, the material should be cut away in a six inch radius around the contaminated point(s). In areas where foot traffic has spread contamination the entire carpet should be disposed of. Proper disposal procedures for all such materials are described in the following section. Associated surfaces, such as flooring under contaminated carpeting, should be thoroughly cleaned with a solvent or detergent as previously described.
7. Contaminated materials (ballast’s, rags, contaminated clothing, gloves, drapes, carpets, etc) should be packed into crumpled newspapers or other sorbent materials (sawdust, kitty litter, vermiculite, soil, etc.) and placed in a double thickness plastic bag. After containing the PCBs, a disposal facility should be contacted for pickup, manifesting and shipment. The PCB materials will be packed in a drum approved for PCBs by the Department of Transportation and finally disposed of at an EPA approved site.
(One might consider discarding the entire light fixture instead of decontaminating the unit. This would eliminate the chance of skin coming into direct contact with the PCBs while cleaning inside the light fixture.)
When you are completely through with the cleanup process, and contaminated materials and protective clothing have been packed for disposal, you should wash your hands thoroughly with detergent. Continue to ventilate the room for 24 hours before reuse.
How to Get Rid of Your PCBs
Arrangements must be made with a facility for the pick-up, manifesting and shipment of ballast’s, PCB-soiled
items or fluorescent fixtures containing PCBs, to an EPA approved chemical waste processing site. These firms will also perform minor PCB spill cleanups and arrange for the removal of PCB capacitors.
If you have further questions, please call EPA’s regional office in Chicago at 3121886-6832, Toxic Program Section.
Non-leaking small PCB capacitors (lighting ballast’s) are not required to be incinerated. They should be placed in a U.S. DOT approved drum with adequate absorbent, and disposal of in an approved landfill unless regulated under N.R.E.P.A. 451 PA 1994: Part 111 (hazardous waste regulations). NOTE: PCB’s are not regulated as hazardous waste, however there may be other components in the ballast which would cause it to test out as a hazardous waste.
* this fact sheet has been duplicated and updated from a prior EPA publication
(doc/y/PCBs.doc/l120/97/EAB)


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## The Lightman

*How can I tell if a ballast manufactured by GE Lighting contains PCBs?*

All high-power-factor fluorescent lamp ballasts manufactured by GE Lighting prior to May 1977 include a small metal capacitor (an electronic device used to store an electrical charge) that contains approximately 10 grams of PCB fluid. The capacitors in our fluorescent lamp ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1979, do not contain PCBs. Ballasts manufactured between May 1 977 and January 1, 1979, may include either type of capacitor. To find out if your GE Lighting ballast contains PCBs, look for the two-letter date code that’s stamped into the mounting feet at one end of the fluorescent ballast, and then check the chart below to find the month and year of manufacture. Ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1979, do not contain PCBs. If the ballast was manufactured between May 1977 and January 1, 1979, look additionally for the catalog number on the label attached to the top of the ballast. If the catalog number contains a “W,” the ballast does NOT contain PCBs. (Ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1979, have “No PCB” printed on the label.)


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## MDShunk

Lightman, you're really into this ****, aren't you?
:laughing:


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## The Lightman

It was quite an experience. Yes, I'm in it real bad.


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## MDShunk

The Lightman said:


> It was quite an experience. Yes, I'm in it real bad.


I've just never seen a guy got so excited over old ballasts. I just cut 'em out and chuck 'em in the bin.


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## The Lightman

I stay excited.


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## MDShunk

The Lightman said:


> I stay excited.


My mother used to say, "Simple minds, simple pleasures". :thumbup:


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## The Lightman

No Mama jokes. We are being moderated!


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## The Lightman

MDShunk said:


> I've just never seen a guy got so excited over old ballasts.


Don't call them old. They're mature! oops, wrong forum.


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## MDShunk

The Lightman said:


> Don't call them old. They're mature! oops, wrong forum.


If you start to post BILF videos, (Ballast I'd like to...), you're so outta here. :jester:


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## The Lightman

There are some cute little HID electronic ballast out there. I'm more into LED drivers lately. No vids yet.


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## oldtimer

Guys; I have a small collection of antique light bulbs, devices, etc. 

See ; electrical photos.


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## M400APowrDoor

Thanks for being worried about my health! But, I am already aware of PCBs in ballasts. Most of the PCB is sealed into the capacitor (about an ounce). As long as the cap doesn't leak, the risk is quite low. I never came across a leaking ballast, but in the case I eventually do, I won't take it!

It takes a serious overheat to blow a cap. It happens the most when people install those 34W energy-saving tubes in older, full power fixture. Doing so quickly overheats the ballast. The thermal protection eventually kicks in, but it's not the most reliable protection. Otherwise the cap is completely sealed, there's no big risk, and I don't handle a huge amount of these... I have NEVER seen or heard of a cap blown from normal use (appropriate lamps).

Oh and also, you probably noticed my ballasts are actually CANADIAN ballasts. Their date code doesn't work the same way.


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## MDShunk

Seems like PCB's were an element of the potting compound in a goodly many of them also.


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## Introyble

The Lightman said:


> Wear rubber gloves while handling those.
> I had a public works job for a suburb of Chicago. I was on the safety committee. I received a memo from the health department which explained about fluorescent ballast PCB's. That read something like this.
> Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) have been used as coolants and lubricants in transformers, capacitors,
> heating/cooling equipment, and other electrical equipment. PCBs have not been manufactured
> in the United States since 1977, but may still be found in older electrical equipment and other
> building materials, like *light ballasts.* PCBs have been associated with acne-like skin conditions in
> adults and changes in the nervous and immune system in children. PCBs are also known to cause
> cancer in laboratory animals and are probable human carcinogens.6 PCB or PCB-contaminated items
> require proper off-site transport and disposal at a facility that can accept such wastes. Fluorescent light ballasts manufactured before 1978 may contain PCBs. Ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1978 should not contain PCBs and are required by law to contain a label that states that no PCBs are present within the units.
> PCBs can be rapidly absorbed through the skin. Experts with the National Institute of Health speculate that, due to the transport of PCBs on dust particles, the current primary route of exposure of most people (non-fish-eaters) to PCBs is through skin exposure.
> I had to the train the rest of the crew and give them respirator qualative fits test with banana oil. While they were in a plastic tent that I made according to specs, I had to time them running in place with a stop watch. Here is the protocol:
> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10290


Your an informed individual. I tried to tell others the same thing you just posted.


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## The Lightman

*Canadian environmental protection act, 1999*



M400APowrDoor said:


> my ballasts are actually CANADIAN ballasts.


How Special.
*Canadian environmental protection act, 1999 *Regulations Amending the PCB Regulations
*Subparagraph 14(1)(d)(i) of the Regulations is replaced with the following:* (i) electrical capacitors, *light ballasts*, electrical transformers and their auxiliary electrical equipment, including pole-top electrical transformers and their pole-top auxiliary electrical equipment
*23.* A person who owns, controls or possesses PCBs or products containing PCBs, other than liquids for which an extension has been granted under section 17, that are stored on September 5, 2008 may store them (_a_) until December 31, 2009 if they are sent by that date for destruction to an authorized facility that is authorized for that purpose; or (_b_) until December 31, 2011 if the person destroys them by that date, at the location where they are stored, in an authorized facility that is authorized for that purpose. The PCBs owners that choose to destroy PCBs and products containing PCBs off-site continue to be subject to the current end-of-storage deadline. These PCBs owners will send the stored PCBs to an authorized destruction facility by December 31, 2009.
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2010/2010-03-31/html/sor-dors57-eng.html
*This correction would include light ballasts* and pole-tops* containing PCBs in a concentration of less than 50mg/kg.*


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## The Lightman

M400APowrDoor said:


> my ballasts are actually CANADIAN ballasts. Their date code doesn't work the same way.


OK, Winker
*FACTS*
Johnson Controls Ltd. has been charged with:
Count 1: Between the 18th day of March, 2001 and the 10th day of June, 2001, at or near the Town of Stettler in the Province of Alberta, did unlawfully store PCB material, to wit: lamp ballasts, contrary to section 5 of the Storage of PCB Materials Regulations, thereby committing an offence contrary to section 272(1) of the _Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999_.
Count 2:Between the 18th day of March, 2001 and the 6th day of April, 2001, at or near the Town of Stettler in the Province of Alberta, did unlawfully deposit into a landfill equipment containing PCB's, to wit: lamp ballasts, contrary to section 6 of the Chlorobiphenyls Regulations, thereby committing an offence contrary to section 272(1) of the _Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999._
Count 3:Between the 3rd day of June and the 9th day of June, 2001, did fail to report to an enforcement officer a potential release of a toxic substance listed on Schedule I of the _Canadian Environmental Protection Act_, contrary to Section 95 of the _Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999. _Charges were laid in Calgary, Alberta on February 6, 2002. Johnson Controls Ltd. has been advised and understands that the following act forms the basis of the offence that it is alleged to have committed:
In May, 2000, Johnson Controls Ltd., under contract to Alberta Infrastructure, a provincial government department, agreed to do a lighting retrofit project at Provincial buildings in central Alberta. Johnson Controls subcontracted the physical portion of the work to a Nisku company named Tech Power. Under this project, old light ballasts were removed from the buildings in Stettler by Tech Power under the direction of Johnson Controls Ltd. and pursuant to its contract. Between the 18th day of March, 2001 and the 6th day of June, 2001 Tech Power took the ballasts removed from the Stettler Provincial Building to the Regional Landfill site operated by the Town of Stettler and left them there for disposal.
Johnson Controls did not fulfill their obligations with respect to the Storage of PCB Materials Regulations when, through its contractor Tech Power, it allowed ballasts to be stored at a site that did not meet the requirements of the Regulations, namely the Stettler Landfill. The light ballasts containing PCBs were placed in two drums, which the landfill site operators initially kept outside and later moved to the inside of a building. The lids to the drums were only placed on and were not sealed. The* detailed requirements of the Regulations that were not met during the storage include:*


*the site was not a room or building or other structure or enclosed by a woven wire fence;
*
*the entrance to the site was not locked or guarded;
*
*a register was not maintained of persons who enter the site or who are authorized to enter the site;
*
*the PCB equipment was not stored in steel drums or containers of sufficient durability and strength, on skids or pallets on a durable sealed floor with curbing or sides that would contain any released liquid or when stored outdoors was not covered;
*
*there was no fire protection plan that employees were familiar with. The local fire department did not have a copy of any plan;
*
*there were no absorbent materials for clean-up near the storage site;
*
*labeling was not affixed to containers containing PCB
* equipment;
*labeling was not affixed to entrances to PCB storage sites;
*
*records were not maintained on PCB equipment and containers within a storage site.*
A random sampling of 12 of the light ballasts that were seized on June 9, 2001 were delivered to Environment Canada Laboratories in Edmonton where oil was extracted from the ballasts and analyzed for PCBs. The following information contains the amount of oil extracted for analysis from the ballasts and the PCB concentration contained within that oil:


Sola Fluorescent Ballast - oil extracted 13.1106 grams at 601000 micrograms/gram PCB
Philips Ballast - oil extracted 3.819 grams at 577000 micrograms/gram PCB
Philips Ballast - oil extracted 3.7659 grams at 561000 micrograms/gram PCB
Philips Ballast - oil extracted 3.5608 grams at 577000 micrograms/gram PCB
Philips Ballast - oil extracted 4.2492 grams at 576000 micrograms/gram PCB
Philips Ballast - oil extracted 2.8471 grams at 641000 micrograms/gram PCB
Philips Ballast - oil extracted 4.6624 grams at 561000 micrograms/gram PCB
*Canadian General Electric Ballast - oil extracted 5.398 grams at 558000 micrograms/gram PCB*
*Canadian General Electric Ballast - oil extracted 5.3673 grams at 566000 micrograms/gram PCB*
*Canadian General Electric Ballast - oil extracted 4.2983 grams at 555000 micrograms/gram PCB*
*Canadian General Electric Ballast - oil extracted 4.3634 grams at 554000 micrograms/gram PCB*
*Canadian General Electric Ballast - oil extracted 4.173 grams at 562000 micrograms/gram PCB*
On December 6, 2001, the remaining ballasts that were seized on June 9, 2001 were inventoried and identified according to the *Environment Canada book entitled "Identification of Lamp Ballasts Containing PCBs". 294 light ballasts were inventoried of which 283 were identified as containing PCBs.*
On June 4, 2001 the landfill operator told Johnson Controls Ltd. that the deposited light ballasts contained PCBs. Johnson Controls Ltd. failed to notify an Canadian Environmental Protection Act enforcement officer until June 8, 2001. On June 9th, 2001, these ballasts were seized by an Environment Canada enforcement officer as part of an investigation into the alleged deposit of electrical equipment containing PCBs.
Johnson Controls shall make a voluntary payment of $40,000 payable to the Receiver General of Canada in trust for the Environmental Damages Fund, as administered by the Regional Director General, Environment Canada, Prairie and Northern Region.
http://www.ec.gc.ca/lcpe-cepa/default.asp?lang=En&n=756DB708-1


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## Shockdoc

So who was smoking pcp ?


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## RIVETER

MDShunk said:


> Our tax dollars at work. Call me crazy, but I really think some of this stuff they go really overboard on.


I take back my thread about the mercury...I don't have any.:whistling2:


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## Vintage Sounds

Wow, those ballasts were made in Canada. I wonder if they were made at the old GE Davenport Works factory in Toronto.


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## idontknow

M400APowrDoor said:


> Thanks for being worried about my health! But, I am already aware of PCBs in ballasts. Most of the PCB is sealed into the capacitor (about an ounce). As long as the cap doesn't leak, the risk is quite low. *I never came across a leaking ballast*, but in the case I eventually do, I won't take it!
> 
> It takes a serious overheat to blow a cap. It happens the most when people install those 34W energy-saving tubes in older, full power fixture. Doing so quickly overheats the ballast. The thermal protection eventually kicks in, but it's not the most reliable protection. Otherwise the cap is completely sealed, there's no big risk, and I don't handle a huge amount of these... I have NEVER seen or heard of a cap blown from normal use (appropriate lamps).
> 
> Oh and also, you probably noticed my ballasts are actually CANADIAN ballasts. Their date code doesn't work the same way.



I see leaking ballasts a lot in older commercial buildings. I knew they were from the 70s but didn't believe they had PCBs. I was told PCB ballasts don't leak and the ones without PCBs do. Never really looked it up. Huh. It seems I was told wrong.


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## wildleg

I think it's cool that you have a nice pcb collection. When I was 20 and I used to cut asbestos with a skill saw (you heard me right), I thought about starting me an asbestos collection. (funny thing about asbestos - it is a naturally occuring compound). good luck with the collection.


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## Toronto Sparky

When I was doing lighting retros in the schools we were supposed to wear gloves and masks and all the old ballasts were thrown into 45 gal drums c/w lid that had to be banded down.
Some company would come and take them away.. 
Some of those ballasts were old enough to be using starters with them.


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## Toronto Sparky

wildleg said:


> I think it's cool that you have a nice pcb collection. When I was 20 and I used to cut asbestos with a skill saw (you heard me right), I thought about starting me an asbestos collection. (funny thing about asbestos - it is a naturally occuring compound). good luck with the collection.



Been there too I remember cutting those asbestos ducts while down in a trench using one of those gas powered cut saws..


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## PmDavis300

MDShunk said:


> Our tax dollars at work. Call me crazy, but I really think some of this stuff they go really overboard on.


i wholeheartedly agree with this statement... all i can saw is W O W !


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## Wirenuting

First they say "PCB's in the ballast's", so I moved my coffee cup outa the way. Then they say "Mercury in the tubes" so I moved my donut.
Next it will be, "no new taxes".


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## MF Dagger

Wirenuting said:


> First they say "PCB's in the ballast's", so I moved my coffee cup outa the way. Then they say "Mercury in the tubes" so I moved my donut.
> Next it will be, "no new taxes".


Try as I might I do not understand this post


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## Wirenuting

Everything is bad for us. And taxes are just the next thing on a long list.
You can't eat any of the things listed.


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## Toronto Sparky

But death is so final.. 

Mind you it comes as a relief after suffering the brutal affects of these products once deemed safe.


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## Wirenuting

Toronto Sparky said:


> But death is so final..
> 
> Mind you it comes as a relief after suffering the brutal affects of these products once deemed safe.


I agree. Its hard to see a friend or co-worker waste away. It's wrong that management can put completion times ahead of safety. Safety can seem like a no brainer on the job. Until a supervisor who is unskilled arrives and pushes the younger people who are still learning to quickly finish and make a manager look good.


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## Split Bolt

I work in a building that was built in the 1920's and I have, over the years, changed many old ballasts there. I remember one that had '34 (or so) stamped on the back! That was the oldest ballast I've changed in my career. I always check the date stamp out of curiosity. I would offer to mail you one the next time, but it seems I would probably end-up at Guantanimo or something!


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## M400APowrDoor

idontknow said:


> I see leaking ballasts a lot in older commercial buildings. I knew they were from the 70s but didn't believe they had PCBs. I was told PCB ballasts don't leak and the ones without PCBs do. Never really looked it up. Huh. It seems I was told wrong.


When you say leaking, you mean that black sticky tar? Or the yellowish-clear, oily liquid? Because tar and PCBs are different. I did see lots of ballasts with a nice blob of black tar on them, and half of the time they're still good!


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## RICK BOYD

what did the starters do on the old florescent fixtures 
and why aren't they needed any more


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## The Lightman

RICK BOYD said:


> what did the starters do on the old florescent fixtures
> and why aren't they needed any more


http://home.howstuffworks.com/fluorescent-lamp4.htm


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## dmxtothemax

" but may still be found in older electrical equipment and other
building materials, like *light ballasts.* "

I would not think that there would be PCBs in ballasts,
Where would they put them ?
unless it is completly sealed,
then it could only be a tiny amount .
I do know that they are in the power factor correction capacitors.
And if they are leaking, I just use a plastic bag to handle it.
No need to evacuate the room.
Bloody hell soon we will be not driving on the road
because of the chance of accidents.
I wonder If things are getting a little over the top,
safety wise.
A bit of common sense usually will suffice.


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## Toronto Sparky

Since PCBs were ruled unsafe they just went away! In our trade I'm sure we all know of huge storage areas that are still trying to decide how to dispose of them.. (In as much it seems they are not all that bad for you as long as you don't burn them) Kinda like spent fuel rods from the reactors.. And the newest.. What will happen to all the mercury from the millions of CFLs that get thrown in the trash can every day.. It's a good thing we don't use water wells these days.. It takes much longer for the ground water to reach the lakes where our drinking water comes from these days.. Will LEDs save the world? Stay tuned.. (If you can with all the RF and EMR killing our minds and bodies) OMG it may just be the pharms we all flush on a regular basis that messes up our drinking water.. Then again.. just like most fire investigations.. the cause was.... ELECTRICAL!.. (must have been as all the wiring was burned)..

BTW Can I  rant?


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## oldtimer

Toronto Sparky said:


> Since PCBs were ruled unsafe they just went away! In our trade I'm sure we all know of huge storage areas that are still trying to decide how to dispose of them.. (In as much it seems they are not all that bad for you as long as you don't burn them) Kinda like spent fuel rods from the reactors.. And the newest.. What will happen to all the mercury from the millions of CFLs that get thrown in the trash can every day.. It's a good thing we don't use water wells these days.. It takes much longer for the ground water to reach the lakes where our drinking water comes from these days.. Will LEDs save the world? Stay tuned.. (If you can with all the RF and EMR killing our minds and bodies) OMG it may just be the pharms we all flush on a regular basis that messes up our drinking water.. Then again.. just like most fire investigations.. the cause was.... ELECTRICAL!.. (must have been as all the wiring was burned)..
> 
> BTW Can I  rant?


 You hit it right on the head!!! :hammer:


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## justin1177

Get on to something a little more interesting like putting plugs on. (Not)


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## retiredsparktech

justin1177 said:


> Get on to something a little more interesting like putting plugs on. (Not)


 How about those nasty old British plugs? 



















bri


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## Toronto Sparky

Power Points ?


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## retiredsparktech

Toronto Sparky said:


> Power Points ?


 I thought "power points" were the recepticals. I'm refering to those bulky things on the end of the flex that fit the power point.


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## Electric_Light

The Lightman said:


> oil extracted 13.1106 grams at 601000 micrograms/gram PCB


Are they ******** or making the report deliberately confusing to understand? 601,000µg = 601mg. 601mg/1000mg = 60.1% 

How hard is it to write it precisely yet keep it simple? They should have just reported 13.1g total, 60.1% PCB content. 

PCBs, mercury metal, lead, asbestos, etc are not "OMFG, I got it on me I'm gonna die" toxic, however PURE methyl mercury, nerve gases etc are. 

There's highly toxic, harmful and classified toxic to paranoid people and the State of California.


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## dmxtothemax

Toronto Sparky said:


> Power Points ?


The term "Power point" is used in Australia,
it is to us, what you call a "Recepticule".


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## Podagrower

I was doing a small remodel, and the light fixtures were original to the building. Date stamped 1971, and probably 85-90% of them were original ballasts.


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## ohiosparky99

Here's some we took out today, they were from the early 60's and most were dimming ballast and still worked


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## Toronto Sparky

New Ballasts last about five years tops.. Seems to me 5% don't last the first week...


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## Toronto Sparky

It's the heat that make PCBs dangerous.. 

http://www.alcorn-energy.com/tech6.htm


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## Vintage Sounds

Incredible, I didn't know dimming ballasts existed way back then. Maybe they required a special dimmer. Did you get to try out the dimming function?


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## ohiosparky99

Vintage Sounds said:


> Incredible, I didn't know dimming ballasts existed way back then. Maybe they required a special dimmer. Did you get to try out the dimming function?


Yeah, they still dimmed, these were in a soffit inside a funeral home, there were 47 of them. They had a rheostat style dimmer designed for the ballast and dimmed about 15%


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## oldtimer

dmxtothemax said:


> The term "Power point" is used in Australia,
> it is to us, what you call a "Recepticule".




No one here calls it a recepticule.

The term is receptacle!


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## Cujo

Since nobody seems to have given a Canadian perspective.

Having personally removed thousands of PCB ballasts from an old high school over the past 3 years, the ones in the OP contain PCB for sure and the ones a few above me likely do as well. Sad they were in a scrap metal bin. When I remove PCBs I cut the wires with my side cutters right against it so they cannot be reused. For some reason we had to only remove the ballast itself not the lens'/ballast covers that had it from old ballasts leaking. 

In canada PCBs became illegal in 1977, so anything stamped 1977 or newer is okay. The label will always say no-pcbs if there aren't any.

If you think PCBs wont leak, well dont. They do. Most ballasts Ive abated were partially leaking at least. Many of the ballast covers of the fixtures were lined with PCB from them leaking. 

Id also like to add that I think PCBs are relatively safe to handle. PCBs are harmful when they are airborne or are ingested. Unless the ballast is leaking and the dielectric hasn't hardened, this isn't a problem. Wear gloves too- it can cause irritation, plus its really hard to get off your skin. I always used latex ones.

And please, please don't install PCB ballasts somewhere/or store for some reason. 
They are good ballasts. They had been working great for 50 years in the school we just renoed, I would say about 75% of the school had ballasts that had been working from the 60s. Those ballasts are also in immaculate condition. Please take them to be properly recycled.


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## Toronto Sparky

Some of the old dimming ballasts used to mess with power factor to dim.. As you dimmed the lamps power consumption went up.. And as I recall there were four wires from the dimmer to the ballast..


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## Norcal

Most of the "leaking" is the potting compound in the ballast case. The PCB's are in the ballasts capacitor, if the ballast has one.


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## davemc90

*PCBs*

Good discussion on PCBs


Not mentioned is that the main harmful effect of PCBs is significantly lower fertility in male mammals, including men. PCBs, through their endocrine distrupter effect mock female hormones. They are a primary cause of the global decline in male fertility.


They will take a very, very long time to dissipate in our environment.


There isn't much mainstream coverage of the issue, because of the hyper-liability of those who produced them.


I'd be more inclined to the full hazmat treatment than gloves and a rag. You and your family could bear the direct consequences of being careless with them.


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## B-Nabs

davemc90 said:


> Good discussion on PCBs
> 
> 
> Not mentioned is that the main harmful effect of PCBs is significantly lower fertility in male mammals, including men. PCBs, through their endocrine distrupter effect mock female hormones. They are a primary cause of the global decline in male fertility.
> 
> 
> They will take a very, very long time to dissipate in our environment.
> 
> 
> There isn't much mainstream coverage of the issue, because of the hyper-liability of those who produced them.
> 
> 
> I'd be more inclined to the full hazmat treatment than gloves and a rag. You and your family could bear the direct consequences of being careless with them.


9 year old thread, last post 7 years ago... 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## joe-nwt

Once all the PCB's and asbestos have been cleaned up, what will be the next crusade?


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## davemc90

Climate change culminating in Pole Shift.


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## rjniles

The old GE transformer plant in Pittsfield Mass dumped/spilt tons of PCBs (600,00 pounds according to the EPA but most people think that estimate is only a fraction of the actual) into the ground and it leached into the Housatonic River. Polluted the river all the way to Long Island Sound in Bridgeport Conn. GE and the feds have spent millions on cleanup but the PCBs remain. This happened in the 30-70s and there are still warnings not to eat fish caught in the Housatonic.


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## readydave8

M400APowrDoor said:


> I have a particular interest for old fluorescent ballasts, the older the better! I found most of them in the scrap metal container at the local recycle centre. I've been quite surprised by the age of some of them! :blink:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's begin by these three. They've been made (from top to bottom) in 1971, 1962 and 1967. The only working one is the little one from 1967. I kept the empty case of the top one, and I've been dumb enough to throw away the middle one.... Fortunately I found today a similar ballast from the same year, but working! I found the three pictured almost two years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More recent finds this time. Here are two ballasts from 1964, only the bottom one is working unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another one, also from 1964. It works, but the case is live for some reason (I learned it the hard way LOL)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now the highlight! A GE ballast from September 1959! Amazingly it works like a charm, no noise. I don't know if it gets very hot, probably not, considering its (impressive) half-century of service!


they even older now:vs_cool:


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## MTW

rjniles said:


> The old GE transformer plant in Pittsfield Mass dumped/spilt tons of PCBs (600,00 pounds according to the EPA but most people think that estimate is only a fraction of the actual) into the ground and it leached into the Housatonic River. Polluted the river all the way to Long Island Sound in Bridgeport Conn. GE and the feds have spent millions on cleanup but the PCBs remain. This happened in the 30-70s and there are still warnings not to eat fish caught in the Housatonic.


Another GE plant on the Hudson in NY that made capacitors was also responsible for PCB pollution of that river.


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## FaultCurrent

Askarel, Aroclor, and Pyranol were great for transformer and capacitor insulation because they had properties that were ideal. Never broke down, good insulators, didn't absorb water, and non-flammable. 

Problem is that when they leaked or were dumped they exhibited those same properties, especially the never broke down part. When PCB's got into the water they contaminated the water we drink. Not good. But how bad?

"While PCBs have been classified as probable human carcinogens, there is no evidence that the low levels of PCBs in the environment cause cancer. Exposure to high levels of PCBs have primarily occurred through workplace exposure in people who work in plants that manufacture the chemicals. Studies of workers exposed to high PCB levels have shown association with certain types of cancer. These high levels of exposure have also been known to cause liver damage, skin lesions called chloracne, and respiratory problems. Exposure to PCBs during pregnancy can result in developmental and behavioral deficits in newborns."


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## DashDingo

joe-nwt said:


> Once all the PCB's and asbestos have been cleaned up, what will be the next crusade?




Toxic chemicals in LED drivers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deppzone

Since this string was about "old" ballasts, I wanted to post a picture of an old florescent light I am trying to locate the manufacturer of. Any help would be most appreciated


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## readydave8

I know it's not only me wondering why you're looking for manufacturer of something that looks like scrap? (.07/lb now)


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## CMP

Its a clone of this one, right down to the wing nuts, but I'm not telling what brand it is. No good can come of it.


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## MHElectric

This thread is from 2010. What the heck dude?


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## Almost Retired

MHElectric said:


> This thread is from 2010. What the heck dude?



Clearly it is current now


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## Almost Retired

Does anyone have a pic of a fixture with a starter in it? In the 90s I took one down and put it up in my kitchen, obviously it looked very nice, and i rewired it with a new ballast


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## CMP

Can't you just post a photo of the one in the kitchen?


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## Almost Retired

CMP said:


> Can't you just post a photo of the one in the kitchen?


My bad ... i lived there from 92 to 95. been gone forever, and no cell phones back then


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## Almost Retired

Almost Retired said:


> My bad ... i lived there from 92 to 95. been gone forever, and no cell phones back then
> as in i dont have a pic


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## deppzone

readydave8 said:


> I know it's not only me wondering why you're looking for manufacturer of something that looks like scrap? (.07/lb now)


Trying to figure out the make, model and manufacturer....


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## deppzone

CMP said:


> Its a clone of this one, right down to the wing nuts, but I'm not telling what brand it is. No good can come of it.
> View attachment 159126


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