# light fixture quick disconnect



## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

410.130 (g)(1)


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

....those things are so cheap, some guys/company's refuse to use them, violation or not, they just wirenut


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

360max said:


> ....those things are so cheap, some guys/company's refuse to use them, violation or not, they just wirenut



I never had an issue with them. They work well IMO.


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## KRD (Feb 25, 2012)

The last company I worked for frowned upon them, that's why I never used them. Thanks for the code section.


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## MaxFuse (Oct 23, 2011)

The best way to work with them that I found was to snatch out the ballast wires and put a piece of # 12 in its place then wirenut the ballast leads.
This seems to correct the cheesy ballast wire connection at the disconnect that causes problems, without violating code requirements.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

When have you ever seem one of these disconnects causing a problem?


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## MaxFuse (Oct 23, 2011)

Brand new installed flourescent fixtures on a army barracks.
Had about 20 that were working then a week later didn't come on. 
Opening them up and twisting the ballast side wires at the disconnect would then get the cheesy stab to make contact and the light to work.
Then a week later several of the same fixures didn't work again.Same thing.
At this point I was thinking pretty seriously about cutting them out but tried this first.
Worked like a charm.
Seem to me the wire was barely large enough for the stab to grab it. 
A #12 slips right in where the #16 ballast wires were on the disconnect and makes alot tighter fit.

Why a stab anyway, there is a reason we got rid of the cheesy stabs in receptacles,then they give us a light disconnect with stabs.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

IF a wall switch is "within sight" of the fixture, you don't need those orange things. Your disconnect requirements are already met. Same goes for the breaker box.

OTOH, if you don't have a wall switch present, better make sure you have some sort of disconnecting means available per 410.130(G)


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## swissmiss177 (Feb 3, 2012)

They are the first thing we cut out.


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## Randy Sherer (Mar 19, 2012)

KRD said:


> Installing a 4 foot 2 tube t5 fixture today, and I cut out the orange quick disconnect that comes factory so I can install my wire nuts. I was told it is against code to cut out the orange disconnects. Is this true and if so the code section please.


The disconnects suck but they are code. The function is to be able remove a ballast safely while the circuit is live and mot have to shut down the other lights on that circuit to do so. This is a good idea but the product is not.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> When have you ever seem one of these disconnects causing a problem?


Never because i cut them off and throw them away as soon as i see them.:thumbup:


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## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

Those things are great for 347 volt lighting.Really easy to change out bad ballast with-out turning circuits off.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> I never had an issue with them. They work well IMO.


He's right. They work well. No problems.


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## Grounded-B (Jan 5, 2011)

MaxFuse said:


> Why a stab anyway, there is a reason we got rid of the cheesy stabs in receptacles,then they give us a light disconnect with stabs.


Every new tombstone has stab in wire connections. With the low current draw of an electronic ballast - the stab connection isn't a problem.

I've never had problems with them. The facility I work at requires LOTO to change a ballast - these avoid shutting off a whole section of office, especially when the lights are on 277V.

If you rely on a wall switch being within sight, to avoid using these, it better not be a three-way.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

The toggle switch needs to kill the neutral to make it legal I think.

Never had a problem with factory installed disconnects or the Ideal replacements. 

If you wish to violate the code and cut them off, please don't throw them away. Send them to me. They cost about a buck a piece and I go through hundreds a year.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Never because i cut them off and throw them away as soon as i see them.:thumbup:


That is pretty freaking hack Harry.


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

I've never had a problem with them. Ever. Any time we install new lights, we use them. Any time we change a ballast or re-lamp, we put them in if they don't already have them. Never had one fail yet.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> That is pretty freaking hack Harry.


You know what is really hack?

Having to cut out a recessed can from a finished sheet rock ceiling because one of those failed.

Yes wire nuts fail as well But if you make up your splices right there will never be a problem..:yes:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You know what is really hack?
> 
> Having to cut out a recessed can from a finished sheet rock ceiling because one of those failed.
> 
> Yes wire nuts fail as well But if you make up your splices right there will never be a problem..:yes:


Why would you put it on a recessed can??, and even if you did, why would you have to cut the can out of the ceiling? Have you ever done electrical work?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*dont care*

I really don't care for those things. I used to cut them out, but lately I just leave them in and use them mainly because there is usually only 1 amp or so on them, they are in a nice big metal jbox, save me time. I pre-pull on them to weed out the defective ones though. I think they pre-solder those to pins. I've found many that just pull out with a little snug. Those I cut and wire nut, but considering all the above...

They are orange, they must be guilty


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You know what is really hack?
> 
> Having to cut out a recessed can from a finished sheet rock ceiling because one of those failed.
> 
> Yes wire nuts fail as well But if you make up your splices right there will never be a problem..:yes:


Show me one recessed can that has one. They are not required by code and the manufactures do not install them at the factory. I think you are confusing a wago style connector with a ballast disconnect.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> I really don't care for those things. I used to cut them out, but lately I just leave them in and use them mainly because there is usually only 1 amp or so on them, *they are in a nice big metal jbox*, save me time. I pre-pull on them to weed out the defective ones though. I think they pre-solder those to pins. I've found many that just pull out with a little snug. Those I cut and wire nut, but considering all the above...
> 
> They are orange, they must be guilty


Do you have a picture of a fluorescent fixture with double ended lamps that have a j-box? I have never seen one.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Why would you put it on a recessed can??, and even if you did, why would you have to cut the can out of the ceiling? Have you ever done electrical work?


All good questions.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> Show me one recessed can that has one. They are not required by code and the manufactures do not install them at the factory. I think you are confusing a wago style connector with a ballast disconnect.


Both are the same thing the only difference is the ballast disconnects you can pull the apart.


all the cans i have used recently come with the wago's in them.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Why would you put it on a recessed can??, and even if you did, why would you have to cut the can out of the ceiling? Have you ever done electrical work?


Tell me how you can get into the box after the Sheetrock...:blink:

The cone does not come out so you cannot get into the box after the sheet rock is up,,Poor design if you ask me and they come through with wago's

You can trust the wago's if you want ,But i would rather know that the splices are good and not be the one that has to tell the HO that the light has to be cut out to get at the box.




> Have you ever done electrical work?


No this is my first day in the trade.....:laughing:




http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lighti...n-contact-airtite-recessed-housing-40809.html


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## MasterE (Dec 31, 2011)

kbsparky said:


> IF a wall switch is "within sight" of the fixture, you don't need those orange things. Your disconnect requirements are already met. Same goes for the breaker box.
> 
> OTOH, if you don't have a wall switch present, better make sure you have some sort of disconnecting means available per 410.130(G)



If there is only one light fixture on that switch, 410 reads for *EACH* luminary


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I really don't understand the dislike of the disconnects after all this time. When it became code, I like most were apprehensive. My SH gave me a 25 pack and I tested them for hours. The wires didn't pull out. They could come out with a twist, but not straight out. I had concerns about the wires pulling out as you were pulling apart the disconnect and then completing the circuit across the heart. That simply is not the case. 

My second concern was cost. Every new fixture that requires them that I have installed since inception has had them included. I didn't see any noticeable cost in fixtures because they are there. 

I am on the 08 code and the rule for installing them in ballast change outs doesn't go into effect for a while, yet I have been installing them since day one. It's a fact millions of ballasts get changed out every year while energized. We are all guilty of it. If they save one life, it will be worth it. 

Since every time the disconnects get brought up, there seems to be a side discussion on the wagos. There has not been one documented case (from an ET member) where a Wago or In-sure connector has failed. If properly installed they are the perfect connector. The cheapie ones in the discount can lights are a different story. I have heard many problems here. Those connectors are not Wagos or In-sures. They are cheap Chinese crap. Do not confuse the two. If you have any questions about the quality of the Wago/In-sures, PM Lighting Retro. That's all he does. He should know, right? 

If you are cutting push in connectors off because you think they will fail in a can light and you will have to open up the ceiling to fix the problem, then you are violating the code right there. Not cutting the connector off, but installing the wrong fixture for the application. Code requires that the j-box to be accessible. If the cone does not remove to access the j-box, then obviously you can't install that fixture on the first floor of a multi-floor dwelling.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

.........


knowshorts said:


> I really don't understand the dislike of the disconnects after all this time. When it became code, I like most were apprehensive. My SH gave me a 25 pack and I tested them for hours. The wires didn't pull out. They could come out with a twist, but not straight out. I had concerns about the wires pulling out as you were pulling apart the disconnect and then completing the circuit across the heart. That simply is not the case.
> 
> My second concern was cost. Every new fixture that requires them that I have installed since inception has had them included. I didn't see any noticeable cost in fixtures because they are there.
> 
> ...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sorry I screwed that up.:blink:


Take a look at the specs on the link for the can light I posted it does not say you cannot install them in a sheet rock ceiling and you have no way of knowing that you cannot get into the box after the sheet rock is up unless you were looking to see if the cone comes out in fact there is no reason to look you should be able to expect that they were designed to comply with the NEC in the first place.

All I'm saying is we should be able to use wire nuts just like we have been for 100 years , We do not need to make the trade stupid proof.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Sorry I screwed that up.:blink:
> 
> 
> Take a look at the specs on the link for the can light I posted it does not say you cannot install them in a sheet rock ceiling and you have no way of knowing that you cannot get into the box after the sheet rock is up unless you were looking to see if the cone comes out in fact there is no reason to look you should be able to expect that they were designed to comply with the NEC in the first place.
> ...


With the picture you supplied, it appears the box is accessible. If you look, the box is recessed into the housing. The cone should be removable and then you have access to the back side of the j-box. 2 hands in a 4" fixture is not ideal, but is accessible. 

Wire connectors have evolved. I don't think you are old enough to remember having a backpack full of gas and soldering connections or even the spring connectors with the removable tab. I'm not saying wire nuts are history, they are just evolving. And, at this time, there is room for both.


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## Grounded-B (Jan 5, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Sorry I screwed that up.:blink:
> 
> 
> Take a look at the specs on the link for the can light I posted it does not say you cannot install them in a sheet rock ceiling and you have no way of knowing that you cannot get into the box after the sheet rock is up unless you were looking to see if the cone comes out in fact there is no reason to look you should be able to expect that they were designed to comply with the NEC in the first place.
> ...


It's up to the "qualified" installer to know whether or not a fixture is suitable for the application. It's very simple - junction boxes need to remain accessible.

As far as continuing to use wirenuts like we have been for "100 years ??", lets go back to soldering our splices and wrapping them with friction tape. I'm sure back when wirenuts came out, electricians thought soldering was better.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Grounded-B said:


> It's up to the "qualified" installer to know whether or not a fixture is suitable for the application. It's very simple - junction boxes need to remain accessible.
> 
> As far as continuing to use wirenuts like we have been for "100 years ??", lets go back to soldering our splices and wrapping them with friction tape. I'm sure back when wirenuts came out, electricians thought soldering was better.


Soldering is better..:laughing:


Again those fixtures should have access to the boxes or they should not be sold that way.

They are air tight fixtures made for the application .


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Again those fixtures should have access to the boxes or they should not be sold that way.
> 
> They are air tight fixtures made for the application .


If they are made for sheetrock ceilings then they have to have access. I am going with installer error.


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## Grounded-B (Jan 5, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Again those fixtures should have access to the boxes or they should not be sold that way.
> 
> They are air tight fixtures made for the application .





BBQ said:


> If they are made for sheetrock ceilings then they have to have access. I am going with installer error.


http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...ents/halo/spec_sheets/110468_h99icat_spec.pdf

per the spec sheet: "The inner housing can be removed from plaster frame to provide access to the juction box"


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> If they are made for sheetrock ceilings then they have to have access. I am going with installer error.


Okay dope .:laughing:

There is no such thing as an air tight dropped ceiling unless you are building a clean room.

Those fixtures are type IC air tight cans made for a residential setting the only place where air tight cans are required and for them to be air tight the ceiling they get installed in must be air tight.

I did not design then some pinhead did,,next time I will use something else .


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## Clarky (Sep 25, 2011)

How are they any different than the old stab lock receps. that would cause loose connections. I think they are a waste of time and money.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Clarky said:


> How are they any different than the old stab lock receps. that would cause loose connections. I think they are a waste of time and money.


Mainly because they are the LAW(if your city adopts the code) and because they only take the load of the one fixture they are in. There is nothing wrong with the disconnect rule. It just lets me make $3 more per ballast change.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Clarky said:


> How are they any different than the old stab lock receps. that would cause loose connections. I think they are a waste of time and money.


A lot less amperage. Up to 50 times less.

Any product that is required by code is not a waste of time and money. In fact it is usually the opposite. It means more money for all. 

TR outlets
T24 fixtures
T24 sensors
Ballast disconnects
Bubble covers
AFCIs
Elimination of most MWBC in residential.

The above have been cried about endlessly in the last few years. There are not going away. Embrace it. They all add cost to a project. They all add labor to a project. That means more profit for all involved.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Tell me how you can get into the box after the Sheetrock...:blink:
> 
> The cone does not come out so you cannot get into the box after the sheet rock is up,,Poor design if you ask me and they come through with wago's
> 
> ...


 
Harry, that light does allow access. I've installed them. The cone pulls out, the door slides up, and you access the junction box from the inside. All recessed lights, if ul listed allow access to the junction box.


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

If you couldn't get at that jbox, those lights wouldn't be UL approved. The connections are made in a JUNCTION BOX and the last time I checked junction boxes have to be accessible.

Let me add one caveat, they wouldn't be rated to be installed in drywall ceilings.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Tell me how you can get into the box after the Sheetrock...:blink:
> 
> The cone does not come out so you cannot get into the box after the sheet rock is up,,Poor design if you ask me and they come through with wago's
> 
> You can trust the wago's if you want ,But i would rather know that the splices are good and not be the one that has to tell the HO that the light has to be cut out to get at the box.


:001_huh:




HARRY304E said:


> Take a look at the specs on the link for the can light I posted it does not say you cannot install them in a sheet rock ceiling and you have no way of knowing that you cannot get into the box after the sheet rock is up unless you were looking to see if the cone comes out in fact there is no reason to look you should be able to expect that they were designed to comply with the NEC in the first place.
> 
> All I'm saying is we should be able to use wire nuts just like we have been for 100 years , We do not need to make the trade stupid proof.


:001_huh:




HARRY304E said:


> Again those fixtures should have access to the boxes or they should not be sold that way.
> 
> They are air tight fixtures made for the application .


:001_huh:




HARRY304E said:


> Okay dope .:laughing:
> 
> There is no such thing as an air tight dropped ceiling unless you are building a clean room.
> 
> ...


:001_huh:

Just when you thought you had heard it all....:laughing:


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

kbsparky said:


> IF a wall switch is "within sight" of the fixture, you don't need those orange things. Your disconnect requirements are already met. Same goes for the breaker box.
> 
> OTOH, if you don't have a wall switch present, better make sure you have some sort of disconnecting means available per 410.130(G)



A wall switch or the circuit breaker does not satisfy the requirement of 410.130 ( G).
The disconnecting means must disconnect both the ungrounded and the grounded simultaneously.

New in the 2011 is when you replace an existing ballast that does not have the disconnecting means you must install one!


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> A wall switch or the circuit breaker does not satisfy the requirement of 410.130 ( G).
> The disconnecting means must disconnect both the ungrounded and the grounded simultaneously....


This only applies to fixtures fed by multi-wire branch circuits.

I stand by my assertion that if a breaker or wall switch is within sight, no further disconnecting means is required.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> This only applies to fixtures fed by multi-wire branch circuits.
> 
> I stand by my assertion that if a breaker or wall switch is within sight, no further disconnecting means is required.


While your statement is true, how many lighting circuits out there are not on MWBC?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Harry, that light does allow access. I've installed them. The cone pulls out, the door slides up, and you access the junction box from the inside. All recessed lights, if ul listed allow access to the junction box.


As I said operator error on Harry's part.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

k_buz said:


> Let me add one caveat, they wouldn't be rated to be installed in drywall ceilings.


That was exactly my point, if they are made for hard ceilings they can be accessed.


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## JRB10 (Apr 18, 2014)

*If it is done right...*

I have never had a problem with these disconnects. When you do it right, they work. The fact that it is code, and so many of you are avidly trying to avoid doing it is concerning. What other short cuts are you taking?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

The 4 port ones are the only happy ones. I hate having to pigtail , when the 2 port ones are supplied I cut them off.


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