# Wal-Mart Built Union



## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

I worked at a Walmart as a union electrician years ago, all the trades were union from what I remember, even the laborer. There is a complete makeover at the Walmart in Secaucus going on right now which is using union men.

Is NJ in the Northeast?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Congratulations, you got 1. :thumbsup:

Sure would be interesting to know if the contractor was able to find some profit left at the end of the job.

The company I work for has done at least a dozen Wal-marts here in the North East and will very likely continue to do more.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob,
I thought you mentioned that the pay and benefits at your shop were just about equal to the union scale in that area?
What kind of margin is in a Walmart project?
I would imagine that the schedule would be the same for all of them.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Bob,
> I thought you mentioned that the pay and benefits at your shop were just about equal to the union scale in that area?



Yes, but we produce. :thumbsup: And before you give me an 'Oh Bob' I am here and have first hand experience with union production rates in this area during a slow economy, you do not. 

It seems if the outlook is for a layoff at the end of the job things slow down to a crawl. Contest it as much as you want, it is a fact. 




> What kind of margin is in a Walmart project?


Like any chain retailer .... slim.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yes, but we produce. :thumbsup: And before you give me an 'Oh Bob' I am here and have first hand experience with union production rates in this area during a slow economy, you do not.
> 
> It seems if the outlook is for a layoff at the end of the job things slow down to a crawl. Contest it as much as you want, it is a fact.
> 
> ...


People are all the same. What do your guys do when the end is near?
Is this a reflection of the Yankee work ethic up there?

BTW,
People with better skills produce more. That's why a union contractor can make money on a tight job like that.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> It seems if the outlook is for a layoff at the end of the job things slow down to a crawl.


My experience has always been that in a slow economy the men work much harder trying to "make shop". Every job is an audition, and there are always open positions for the contractor to take you to the next job with them. Making shop is the difference between sitting on the bench and making $100K per year. 

In a good economy the men don't hustle very much because they know that if they get laid off they are going to go right back out to work. In a bad economy I see even the worst slugs breaking a sweat.



> I am here and have first hand experience with union production rates in this area


 Maybe it truly is different in your area, or maybe your "all seeing eye" doesn't display the facts as clear and unbiased as you think.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> People are all the same. What do your guys do when the end is near?


We keep working hard. We don't get generally lay people off, we move them to the next job. 





> BTW,
> People with better skills produce more. That's why a union contractor can make money on a tight job like that.


Again we have all the skills, I know you like to think otherwise but you have no clue what the guys in the company I work for are capable of.

Just because down your way non-union workers may be uneducated has nothing to do with what happens here. Maybe FL should actually start requiring more than a pulse to be an electrical worker?

Here all electrical workers must have the same amount of training and licensing union or merit. 




Stub said:


> My experience has always been that in a slow economy the men work much harder trying to "make shop". Every job is an audition, and there are always open positions for the contractor to take you to the next job with them. Making shop is the difference between sitting on the bench and making $100K per year.
> 
> In a good economy the men don't hustle very much because they know that if they get laid off they are going to go right back out to work. In a bad economy I see even the worst slugs breaking a sweat.
> 
> Maybe it truly is different in your area, or maybe your "all seeing eye" doesn't display the facts as clear and unbiased as you think.


I have been working on 'mixed jobs' in MA and RI for enough time to see how it works here. I have seen countless examples time and again. 

That is one reason the company I work for gets hired, we make the deadlines and many times the union contractors do not. Again dispute this as much as you want but it is a fact in the areas I work.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> I have seen countless examples time and again.


 I find that to be along the same line of thinking as the people who say "All rats suck, they just kiss the bosses ass for their little bit of cheese, blah blah". 
You've generalized all union workers by the very limit experience that you had with them. The same way as many union workers generalize non-union workers by the limited experiences they have had.

So what does that teach us?


> Again dispute this as much as you want but it is a fact in the areas I work.


You've mistaken the word "fact" for the phrase "my opinion".


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Stub said:


> I find that to be along the same line of thinking as the people who say "All rats suck, they just kiss the bosses ass for their little bit of cheese, blah blah". You've generalized all union workers by the very limit experience that you had with them.


A swing and a miss.

If you go back in this thread I have said done no such thing, in your area and in Johns area things may well be different. I said nothing about those areas.

But I work in Worcester, I know how things work here. I am not generalizing I am stating what I have seen time and again in this area. 



> You've mistaken the word "fact" for the phrase "my opinion".


When I speak of things I have personally witnessed those are facts. It may not happen every time but I have seen it happen numerous times ..... in this area. 

If I was to say that I think NJ is full of loud mouths that would be an opinion. :jester:


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> But I work in Worcester, I know how things work here. I am not generalizing I am stating what I have seen time and again in this area.


 And again, if someone states that they have seen non-union workers act like rats and not know what they are doing and all the other crap time and time again, does that make it fact?



> When I speak of things I have personally witnessed those are facts.


 Not when you take your observations and then generalize an entire group based on what you observed only a few doing.



Bob Badger said:


> If I was to say that I think NJ is full of loud mouths that would be an opinion. :jester:


Exactly, now you're getting it. If you see some people from NJ being loudmouths and call all the rest loud mouths, then that is an opinion. The same way as if you see some union workers in your area being slugs and then call all union workers in your area slugs, that too is an opinion.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Stub said:


> And again, if someone states that they have seen non-union workers act like rats and not know what they are doing and all the other crap time and time again, does that make it fact?


I don't know, can you give a me definition of 'acts like a rat'? 




> Not when you take your observations and then generalize an entire group based on what you observed only a few doing.


OK I surrender you are right, only the large number of union members I have seen work at a snails pace are the ones I am talking about.

The hard working one should not be insulted.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> I don't know, can you give a me definition of 'acts like a rat'?


I think you know what I am saying.


> OK I surrender you are right, only the large number of union members I have seen work at a snails pace are the ones I am talking about.


 Exactly. Just like all the crappy non union workers people complain about don't prove that ALL non union workers are crappy.


> The hard working one should not be insulted.


They are when you generalize ALL of them. 

Do you like being called a rat or an unskilled and untrained worker just because other non union workers are like that? Or do you see that as just a mindless generalization?


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## katoomrp (Dec 5, 2009)

We have been building wal marts in NJ union for at least 3 years now.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

katoomrp said:


> We have been building wal marts in NJ union for at least 3 years now.



Hmmm... I guess some people don't considered NJ part of the northeast... I do. 

But then again some people don't really considered NJ to be much of anything... :laughing:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Local 567 did the Walmart distribution center in Lewiston, Maine a few years ago, under time and under budget.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> Hmmm... I guess some people don't considered NJ part of the northeast... I do.
> 
> But then again some people don't really considered NJ to be much of anything... :laughing:


So who told you that the Walmart in Worcester will be the first one built union? I think it's time that you have a talk with him...


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## katoomrp (Dec 5, 2009)

Unlike many of the other jobs i have been on,Wal Mart followed the job specs to a T.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Stub said:


> So who told you that the Walmart in Worcester will be the first one built union? I think it's time that you have a talk with him...



If you get the Electrical Worker paper in the mail it was in this months copy. All the way in the back under the individual local's section. Perhaps it was LU 96 being a bit too overzealous. Unless it should have read first in MA?


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> If you get the Electrical Worker paper in the mail it was in this months copy. All the way in the back under the individual local's section. Perhaps it was LU 96 being a bit too overzealous. Unless it should have read first in MA?


I get it, the only thing I really read is the letters on the last page, I like to see what the uppity members have to say. Usually it's kissing the Kenyans ass and telling everyone else how they should follow along :no:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Stub said:


> I get it, the only thing I really read is the letters on the last page, I like to see what the uppity members have to say. Usually it's kissing the Kenyans ass and telling everyone else how they should follow along :no:



Oh geez... not another one. :bangin:

I'll leave it at that...


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> Oh geez... not another one. :bangin:
> 
> I'll leave it at that...


You're a Barry Hussein fan?


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Stub said:


> You're a Barry Hussein fan?



Has nothing with being a fan. It has to do with reality. He is a US citizen get over it already.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> Has nothing with being a fan. It has to do with reality. He is a US citizen get over it already.


Who said he wasn't? :blink::blink:

It seems like you're the one with the issues that you need to get over :whistling2:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Stub said:


> Who said he wasn't? :blink::blink:
> 
> It seems like you're the one with the issues that you need to get over :whistling2:



Yep another one... go argue with a 2 year old the are more your level.

:jester:


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> Yep another one... go argue with a 2 year old the are more your level.
> 
> :jester:


I think you have some serious issue because you are arguing something with yourself. No one else said anything about anyone not being a citizen.

I'll leave you alone to continue this debate with the other Chris21 that you seem to be talking to :thumbsup:

Maybe _The One_ will use his free healthcare program to help you sort your issues out :thumbup:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Stub said:


> I think you have some serious issue because you are arguing something with yourself. No one else said anything about anyone not being a citizen.
> 
> I'll leave you alone to continue this debate with the other Chris21 that you seem to be talking to :thumbsup:
> 
> Maybe _The One_ will use his free healthcare program to help you sort your issues out :thumbup:



You implied it by calling him a kenyan. 

The anti-obama crowd like to throw those things around to put a negative light on him. Like the emphasis on his middle name. I know I know... "it's his name why not use it"... uhhhh huh that's it.

You're no Kenyan unless you're born in Kenya. Matter of fact you're not Irish, Italian, Polish, Russian, Mexican and so forth unless you're born in those countries. If you are born here like it or not you are an US born citizen.

P.S. 

I never voted for him.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> You implied it by calling him a kenyan.


 I call myself an Italian, does that mean that I'm not a citizen?

Is that really what started this little war?


> The anti-obama crowd like to throw those things around to put a negative light on him.


 I think he does enough of that all by himself. But that's really all I'm going to say, if you want to have a political debate, you're going to have to do it with someone who actually cares. 



> Matter of fact you're not Irish, Italian, Polish, Russian, Mexican and so forth unless you're born in those countries.


Now you're REALLY reaching...

Good day to you Sir!


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Stub said:


> I call myself an Italian, does that mean that I'm not a citizen?
> 
> Is that really what started this little war?


No I think it was the Jersey crack I made earlier. NJ folk never did have much of a sense of humor. Especially the "Italian" ones... so so sensitive.



Stub said:


> I think he does enough of that all by himself. But that's really all I'm going to say, if you want to have a political debate, you're going to have to do it with someone who actually cares.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No... not reaching it at all. It's actually a shame no one in this country identifies themselves as Americans.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)




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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> No I think it was the Jersey crack I made earlier. NJ folk never did have much of a sense of humor. Especially the "Italian" ones... so so sensitive.


 I never saw it. I just read it now, it's not very good. You should have used the toilet one, or maybe the armpit of America joke, much better :thumbup:

BTW, you DID have NJ listed as your location before, I see that you changed it recently. Are you trying to hide something?? :thumbsup:



> No... not reaching it at all. It's actually a shame no one in this country identifies themselves as Americans.


I'm an American citizen, but I am an Italian. My blood, my heritage, my attributes are Italian. Just because my Parents came here a month before I was born, it doesn't change all of that. 

Do my stunning good looks and charm go away when I cross the border? I think not!


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Stub said:


> I call myself an Italian, does that mean that I'm not a citizen?
> 
> Is that really what started this little war?
> I think he does enough of that all by himself. But that's really all I'm going to say, if you want to have a political debate, you're going to have to do it with someone who actually cares.
> ...





Stub said:


> I never saw it. I just read it now, it's not very good. You should have used the toilet one, or maybe the armpit of America joke, much better :thumbup:


I agree with you. But I DID try.



Stub said:


> BTW, you DID have NJ listed as your location before, I see that you changed it recently. Are you trying to hide something?? :thumbsup:


I think you have me mistaken for someone else... I never had my location listed as NJ. 




Stub said:


> I'm an American citizen, but I am an Italian. My blood, my heritage, my attributes are Italian. Just because my Parents came here a month before I was born, it doesn't change all of that.
> 
> Do my stunning good looks and charm go away when I cross the border? I think not!


Exactly you're blood, heredity and even attributes may be Italian but you birthright in every legal sense you are an American. Just take a look at your birth certificate. You are what you are not what you could have been if you were born elsewhere. Be proud of that fact.


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> I
> I think you have me mistaken for someone else... I never had my location listed as NJ.


 It didn't say NJ/ NYC earlier today? If not, then I apologize. 



> Exactly you're blood, heredity and even attributes may be Italian but you birthright in every legal sense you are an American. Just take a look at your birth certificate. You are what you are not what you could have been if you were born elsewhere. Be proud of that fact.


 I am an Italian who was born in America, which makes me an American citizen. That's really the only way it is. Maybe in 500 years there will be an American race, but not today.


Here is the picture you were trying to post:










Damn guidos.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

This is one of my biggest pet peeves.

My fathers Grand parents emigrated from Italy, My name is very Italian, does this make me Italian?

No!! I'm an American! I was born here, I speak the language and I'm proud of it.

You may be of Italian,Irish,Polish,French decent but if you were born here your an American.

That's my answer when people ask me what I am.Although my last name makes it hard to argue the fact.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Stub.. have you ever been on this forum before.... maybe under a different name.

Just curious :whistling2:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Stub.. have you ever been on this forum before.... maybe under a different name.
> 
> Just curious :whistling2:



Wait a minute I thought those were the rules?! Everyone has to have at least ONE alter ego!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> Wait a minute I thought those were the rules?! Everyone has to have at least ONE alter ego!


:laughing:

Lately some have had (5) alter egos


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> This is one of my biggest pet peeves.
> 
> My fathers Grand parents emigrated from Italy, My name is very Italian, does this make me Italian?
> 
> ...




I'm with ya on this.


"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else".

- Teddy Roosevelt

:thumbsup:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Man, that Teddy Roosevelt was certainly a voice for the ages.

Too bad leaders of that ilk are extinct in modern society.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Stub.. have you ever been on this forum before.... maybe under a different name.
> 
> Just curious :whistling2:


Yea there are some very familiar things going on here.

For someone to just join and post 67 times in a day and a half with some much knowledge on how this forum operates.

Something VERY fishy is going on here .............:detective:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

When I worked union down in my home state of Florida back in the 80's,there were zero non-union shops that had the capability to do a Walmart. They did not have the manpower and especially they did not have the equipment.
They just could not compete. Every job I ever worked on out of local 349 had licensed journeyman at every possible position and apprentices. You could not be a journeyman without being recognized as a JW by the AHJ.
The non-union shops barely could put a licensed JW on a job. They could not compete. The best guys worked union and that was just how it was.
I am sure many things have changed over the years, but I know one thing that has not. PAY. Union people make more money and that's a fact.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> The non-union shops barely could put a licensed JW on a job. They could not compete.



We can and do. 




> I am sure many things have changed over the years, but I know one thing that has not. PAY. Union people make more money and that's a fact.


Now how is generalizing?:laughing:

If you are so sure that is a fact why is it that when I am on some PW jobs my pay would drop?

Yes many of our guys make less then me, many make more then me, that is why we call it a merit shop. We are paid based on our worth not based on a set contract price.

Some guys are better at things then others and that is a fact. :thumbsup:


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## Stub (Apr 19, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Now how is generalizing?:laughing:


 He is, not me.

I know a lot of non-union men who are paid above union scale. I also know a lot of union men who are paid above union scale. There most certainly is a level of merit in the union, not only by pay, but by keeping your job while the others go back to sit on the bench. I argue with so called "Brothers" who want to make it so that at the end of every job everyone gets laid off, those slugs would like it because then everyone would be equal and they could work even less.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yes many of our guys make less then me, many make more then me, that is why we call it a merit shop. We are paid based on our worth not based on a set contract price.


Does the amount of time you are with the company figure into the pay scale or is it just the amount of work you can produce per day?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Does the amount of time you are with the company figure into the pay scale or is it just the amount of work you can produce per day?


Good question, I am not sure there is a standard answer to that.

There are definitely new hires that make more than long term guys but time does factor in as well.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> LU 96 out of Worcester, MA recently completed the new construction of a Wal-Mart without any concessions. The first Wal-Mart to be done union in the Northeast.
> 
> :thumbup:


Wow, that is some horn you are tooting... I have done Walmarts and I am union contractor in the South.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

jrannis said:


> People are all the same. What do your guys do when the end is near?
> Is this a reflection of the Yankee work ethic up there?
> 
> BTW,
> People with better skills produce more. That's why a union contractor can make money on a tight job like that.


I believe you may be confused, skill level and production level are two completely different things. Granted when a highly skilled person also produces we all make money, but I have seen unskilled Mexicans work circles around some of my highly skilled tradesmen who forgot how to hump it.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> Wow, that is some horn you are tooting... I have done Walmarts and I am union contractor in the South.



How so?


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> When I worked union down in my home state of Florida back in the 80's,there were zero non-union shops that had the capability to do a Walmart. They did not have the manpower and especially they did not have the equipment.
> They just could not compete. Every job I ever worked on out of local 349 had licensed journeyman at every possible position and apprentices. You could not be a journeyman without being recognized as a JW by the AHJ.
> The non-union shops barely could put a licensed JW on a job. They could not compete. The best guys worked union and that was just how it was.
> I am sure many things have changed over the years, but I know one thing that has not. PAY. Union people make more money and that's a fact.


 Back in the 70s we were the exact same with something like 98% market share, now we are somewhere below 10%.

The Non-Union shops out number me 9 to 1 and they are VERY organized and very well financed and equipped. The game has changed.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> How so?


Well for one thing my clients (like walmart) don't ask for union concessions, they just want the best price and any agreement between me and the local is my business and my clients don't really care what they are as long as I deliver.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> Well for one thing my clients (like walmart) don't ask for union concessions, they just want the best price and any agreement between me and the local is my business and my clients don't really care what they are as long as I deliver.



Not really sure what any of that has to do with the original post... but ok. Good on you. :thumbsup:


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> LU 96 out of Worcester, MA recently completed the new construction of a Wal-Mart without any concessions....


 Hey thanks and good job on knocking out a Walmart.


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## katoomrp (Dec 5, 2009)

Do you guys use those pre-fab EDC's in your wal marts????


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