# Retrofit existing troffers



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> I have a customer who is exploring retrofitting existing 2x4 lay-in troffers instead of replacing them outright.
> 
> Specifically, they want to replace all the "guts" of each fixture with a new ballast, new sockets, new reflector, and lens.
> 
> ...


If the fixtures are something nice, no problem in keeping them. Run of the mill type troffers get trashed and replaced.

I think we have some sort of specialty license here in Florida that allows non EC contractors to retrofit fixtures. 
You would have to be an EC to remove and replace them.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

kbsparky said:


> Have any of you been involved with such a project, and was it cost-effective to retrofit as opposed to replacing them with new fixtures?


Yeah. Turns out it wasn't cost effective for them to hire me to do the work, but it was cost effective for them to take the info I gave them, and have their maintenance guys, or company tech/IT guru, install them.


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## sparkybac (May 16, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> I have a customer who is exploring retrofitting existing 2x4 lay-in troffers instead of replacing them outright.
> 
> Specifically, they want to replace all the "guts" of each fixture with a new ballast, new sockets, new reflector, and lens.
> 
> ...


In my experience it is much more cost effective to retrofit the fixture. The reflector kits that include two socket brackets, tek screws, four new sockets & new reflector are available for purchase for about $15-20 (or less depending on how many you buy). Once you get a system down, it takes less than 10 minutes per fixture to rip out the old guts out and put in the new. 
Another benefit to this is it's a lot easier to transport 500 reflector "kits" rather than 500 2x4 lay-in fixtures, and instead of having a big ole pile of old fixtures to throw away, all you have is the old ballast, the old socket brackets, and some old ballast wires.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Ditto to the above. Georgians think alike. I've done 1000's of retrofits and all the reasons above are why. Plus, do really want to mess with trying to yank out old heavy, wedged in, fixtures and dispose of them. Retrofitting is the way to go!!! BAM!!


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

Kits are a scam. You need a ballast and lamps, that's it. In my experience only 1% of tombstones need to be replaced. If you delamp some 4 lamp fixtures there's your replacement tombstones for free.
The kits I do buy are for 8' to 4' lamp conversions. Just the tombstones, sheetmetal plates and screws. $4 a kit in bulk. You supply ballast and lamps.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

joe cool said:


> Kits are a scam. You need a ballast and lamps, that's it. In my experience only 1% of tombstones need to be replaced. If you delamp some 4 lamp fixtures there's your replacement tombstones for free.
> The kits I do buy are for 8' to 4' lamp conversions. Just the tombstones, sheetmetal plates and screws. $4 a kit in bulk. You supply ballast and lamps.


Retrofit kits will enable you to maintain the fixture listing.


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

Am I really committing a dangerous and deadly UL sin by replacing a UL listed ballast and UL listed lamps for another UL listed ballast and UL listed lamps?
(Besides, my birthday was last week and the UL didn't even send me a card. To heck with those inconsiderate people. They can eat my refuse.)


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

joe cool said:


> Am I really committing a dangerous and deadly UL sin by replacing a UL listed ballast and UL listed lamps for another UL listed ballast and UL listed lamps?
> (Besides, my birthday was last week and the UL didn't even send me a card. To heck with those inconsiderate people. They can eat my refuse.)


Of course not. I do the ballast/lamp upgrade all the time.

But if one thing led to another, in an "official" sense, it would be prudent on a larger retrofit job to use the proper listed retrofit parts. Besides, on a bulk order, it might wind up cheaper anyway.


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

I am working part time as a project manager for a lighting company, but not under my own license, no way Jose.
Our costs:
Material:
2 lamp ballast $7 LE/PE, $8.5 HE
4 lamp ballast $9.5 PE
T8/850 lamp $2
Labor:
2 lamp T12 to 2 lamp T8 $4
4/3 lamp T12 to 2 lamp T8 $7
HID to new T5 fixture $17
It's freaking insane how fast these installers work. Quality? Uh, no. Production? Oh, yes.
I'm just the PM on hourly rate, my installs take twice as long and I'm no slouch.


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## sparkybac (May 16, 2009)

joe cool said:


> Kits are a scam. You need a ballast and lamps, that's it. In my experience only 1% of tombstones need to be replaced. If you delamp some 4 lamp fixtures there's your replacement tombstones for free.
> The kits I do buy are for 8' to 4' lamp conversions. Just the tombstones, sheetmetal plates and screws. $4 a kit in bulk. You supply ballast and lamps.


Obviously a kit is not needed for a standard lamp/ballast swap out in a standard troffer. You do need the new recentering brackets in the kit if you're de-lamping from 4 to 2 or 3 to 2. Typically a new reflector is installed in these fixtures.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

joe cool said:


> I am working part time as a project manager for a lighting company, but not under my own license, no way Jose.
> Our costs:
> Material:
> 2 lamp ballast $7 LE/PE, $8.5 HE
> ...


I'm not sure why you would want to do that. Why don't you just buy the kit's with tomestones pre-wired and get the miro 4 reflectors for only $30? Tomestones become very brittle and the metal springs get weak and lots are pitted, especially after 10 or more years. Furthermore, the new miro 4 reflectors redirect approx~ 95% of the light downward v.s. approx ~ 80% if you don't replace and they also redirect heat a bit away from ballast increasing the lifespan a bit more.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Got a source for that price? I asked one supplier for these kits, and their quote was a whopping $70+

They called back the next day to ensure I received the quote. I told `em it has to be cheaper than a new fixture, or else I'm wasting my time. They said they'd get back to me .... (still waiting on that one) ....


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

KB, the reflectors Clitis is talking about are not aluminum, high quality types. They can't be. A 4X8 sheet of it cost me $180. Unless he is buying 100's at a time, there is no way he can get all that for $30. 

I, and I am sure most here, don't believe him. His $50K jobs he does, with his 5-10 employees, are internet fables.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

kbsparky said:


> Got a source for that price? I asked one supplier for these kits, and their quote was a whopping $70+
> 
> They called back the next day to ensure I received the quote. I told `em it has to be cheaper than a new fixture, or else I'm wasting my time. They said they'd get back to me .... (still waiting on that one) ....


http://www.warehouse-lighting.com/r...ed-miro-4-reflector-2ft-x-4ft-t8-troffer.aspx $25 + $13 Ballast

= $38 

What?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Cletis said:


> http://www.warehouse-lighting.com/r...ed-miro-4-reflector-2ft-x-4ft-t8-troffer.aspx $25 + $13 Ballast
> 
> = $38
> 
> What?


And its even going to be cheaper if you are doing many units. :brows:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

It must be cost effective as we have been doing retrofits like crazy lately. We were subbed by a company that does the walkthrough and proposal, and then drops al material on site and we install. They have 9 more lined up already, anywhere from 40 to 200+ fixtures.

I'm stuck on this one at a U-haul because we currently have no data jobs 

I'm not really into repetitive lighting jobs, but you gotta do what the boss says...


Material provided by consultant. This one is a T12 to T8 swap.




















2 hallways with existing 8' T12's


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## joe cool (Jun 4, 2009)

Cletis said:


> I'm not sure why you would want to do that. Why don't you just buy the kit's with tomestones pre-wired and get the miro 4 reflectors for only $30? Tomestones become very brittle and the metal springs get weak and lots are pitted, especially after 10 or more years. Furthermore, the new miro 4 reflectors redirect approx~ 95% of the light downward v.s. approx ~ 80% if you don't replace and they also redirect heat a bit away from ballast increasing the lifespan a bit more.


We do primarily high volume low budget jobs like public schools. If we spent all the money on prewired tombstones and reflectors there wouldn't be anything left for us...
We have to be at the $35-$45 per fixture level to get these jobs. But they make up for it in volume. Recently won a bid for 9300 fixtures. Materials cost of just below $100k. No room for new reflectors there.


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