# adding a 7th meter to residential building



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Maybe just maybe if the POCO will give you another separate drop you may get away with it. I would definitely run it by my inspection dept. I do know here if it has a seperate drop or lateral we can put in banks of six or less.


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

de2 said:


> 1-) Can I use existing trough to tap my new meter to feed my new house panel? Do I violate 6 disconnect rule? NEC 230.71(A)
> 2-) Should I add a new weather-head to existing service drop and bring this to my new meter and feed my new house panel? (NEC 230.2 states only one service)
> 3-) So existing installation does not have a main disconnect switch? Is this a code violation? NEC 230.70


#1 Yes, you would be in violation 230.71(A)
#2 As already stated, you would have to check with your POCO and AHJ but it is doubtful they will go with it.
#3 No, as long as there is no more than 6 switches or breakers.

Roger


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

If you are going that far, Install a main and all of your dreams will come true.


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## de2 (Mar 10, 2017)

Roger said:


> #1 Yes, you would be in violation 230.71(A)agreed
> #2 As already stated, you would have to check with your POCO and AHJ but it is doubtful they will go with it. agreed
> #3 No, as long as there is no more than 6 switches or breakers. 230.70 states there should be a main service disconnect. Main service disconnect is not based on 6 switch. Can you please explain.
> 
> ...


thanks


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## de2 (Mar 10, 2017)

Suncoast Power said:


> If you are going that far, Install a main and all of your dreams will come true.


Based on what code section installing a main disconnect solves this and allow me to put a 7th meter?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

de2 said:


> Based on what code section installing a main disconnect solves this and allow me to put a 7th meter?


You would have one throw.
Usually we see a main and a meter stack or a main ahead of the gutter with that many disconnects.


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## de2 (Mar 10, 2017)

Suncoast Power said:


> You would have one throw.
> Usually we see a main and a meter stack or a main ahead of the gutter with that many disconnects.


either there is a main or not still 6 disconnect rule applies.

is there a way I can submit a picture here?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

de2 said:


> either there is a main or not still 6 disconnect rule applies.
> 
> is there a way I can submit a picture here?


Yes, when replying to a post click "reply" and scroll down to "manage attachments."


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

de2 said:


> either there is a main or not still 6 disconnect rule applies.


That is not true but you won't believe us anyway...


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## de2 (Mar 10, 2017)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is not true but you won't believe us anyway...


please list down NEC sections and prove it with simple few words.


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## de2 (Mar 10, 2017)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Yes, when replying to a post click "reply" and scroll down to "manage attachments."


I am not allowed to attach pictures , maybe I am new here, dont know.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

de2 said:


> I am not allowed to attach pictures , maybe I am new here, dont know.


Ya that true until you pass the X numbers of posting then you can able attached the photos.,,


Talk to the inspector in your area to see they can run seperated riser / lateral service otherwise get the main disconnect sized to the total load in that apartment unit.

It kinda common to see a master main switch before banks of meter sockets. ( once ya get over 6 socket that will affect it. )


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

de2 said:


> either there is a main or not still 6 disconnect rule applies.
> 
> is there a way I can submit a picture here?


Correct. The new main will be labeled 1of 1. :thumbsup:


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## de2 (Mar 10, 2017)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is not true but you won't believe us anyway...


I believe you now. :thumbsup:
Here is the statement from an article I read about this;
Each building or structure must be provided with a service disconnecting means. It can be a single switch or circuit breaker or up to six in a single enclosure or in separate enclosures grouped in the same location. 


*http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/what-constitutes-grouping*


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is Newark dude. Call the inspector and ask, he will probably allow you to add the 7th meter and disconnect simply because you are the only person in that city even attempting to do something compliantly.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> This is Newark dude. Call the inspector and ask, he will probably allow you to add the 7th meter and disconnect simply because you are the only person in that city even attempting to do something compliantly.


Wouldn't a call to the poco be the place to start?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Wouldn't a call to the poco be the place to start?


I haven't read it that closely, but I thought the only issue was having the 7th throw to shut down all the power, which would be an NEC issue.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We see this all of the time. I think for us, if you have 4 units, you have to have a house meter. It's unfortunate that you already have six meters.
I would suspect that if the owner wasn't a slumlord, he could swing a meter center with a main.
They are cheap and easy to install and might take up less room than what you have in place.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Suncoast Power said:


> We see this all of the time. I think for us, if you have 4 units, you have to have a house meter. It's unfortunate that you already have six meters.
> I would suspect that if the owner wasn't a slumlord, he could swing a meter center with a main.
> They are cheap and easy to install and might take up less room than what you have in place.


How cheap have you found them? I thought they are pretty expensive for 400A and 7 gang?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The OP is an electrical engineer. I really never thought a 6 unit apartment owner in Newark would hire an EE, usually they aren't willing to pay $129 to get the power back on to a tenant in the dark.

As for the house panel, the code requires one but it's very rarely enforced in NJ. Every 2 family house you ever see will have 2 meters, 3 family houses have 3 meters. They just put the common area lights on the first floor unit.

When a customer wants a house panel but doesn't want the expense of upgrading the whole service, I typically just install a separate 100A service and let the Poco tie it into the existing overhead line.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

The complication is that it's a six pack to start with.
One possible cheat would be to call one of the apartments out as an office and put all of the house loads on it but, that could open a can of zoning worms.

Also, the OP declared himself as an electrical engineer. That doesn't mean he is a PE or someone qualified to design building electrical systems. His speciality could be robotics or rocket navigation.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I haven't read it that closely, but I thought the only issue was having the 7th throw to shut down all the power, which would be an NEC issue.


I've heard of problems getting things from the poco for properties in Newark because an address can basically be black balled for a non payment history at a particular address, even with new owners they want to collect back funds before they will even discuss anything.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've heard of problems getting things from the poco for properties in Newark because an address can basically be black balled for a non payment history at a particular address, even with new owners they want to collect back funds before they will even discuss anything.


That's hard core. I would expect that the user and not the owner would have that responsibility.
I know sometimes water can be like that sometimes.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> That's hard core. I would expect that the user and not the owner would have that responsibility.
> I know sometimes water can be like that sometimes.


It is hardcore and a big thing when working on a newly purchased foreclosed property. The poco only knows the address they are delivering power too.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> It is hardcore and a big thing when working on a newly purchased foreclosed property. The poco only knows the address they are delivering power too.


The way it's setup here is a person or company has to prove either ownership or a rental agreement to open an account. It always seems to be separate from the property.


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## de2 (Mar 10, 2017)

Just clearing few things.
I am a EE and have PE. In few weeks I will get master electrician license.
The building is located in upstate NY, utility company is National Grid. I spoke to Nationa Grid and they said "anyone" can do the work, they dont care what work is done. They just need a certification of whom does the work, they will turn the power on as long as the they receive the work certification from the contractor.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> The way it's setup here is a person or company has to prove either ownership or a rental agreement to open an account. It always seems to be separate from the property.


Most places I dealt with in NJ you could walk in the poco office and open an account with no money down. They would put the deposit on your bill.


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