# HID occupancy sensors with T8's



## flyindawg (Apr 23, 2010)

I have some existing occupancy sensors in place already with an option for HID starting installed. We have just switched to T8's and my question is, can these sensors damage the new lights or ballasts. They are Sensor brand with a "Start to high option" installed that cannot be turned off in them. Anyone out there think that this option will adversely affect my new lights?

Thanks


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

They will work if sensors were designed for electronic ballasts If not you will go though lamps like crazy .. and they will flicker slightly when off.


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## flyindawg (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks for the response. I have tested these and there is a 13vac residual while off. There is a pot that you can turn the "start to high" to zero time. Is it the 13 volts that will cause problems?


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

flyindawg said:


> Is it the 13 volts that will cause problems?



Seems it is in my house.. I go though lamps like crazy.. (but wife loves the fixture) What is one to do?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

that's interesting, why the 13v residual?


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> that's interesting, why the 13v residual?


Most sensors draw their power from the open circuit.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

so it's like vampire electricity?


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## flyindawg (Apr 23, 2010)

Not sure where the voltage is coming from. With the start to high turned on or off, the 13v is still there.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

flyindawg said:


> Not sure where the voltage is coming from. With the start to high turned on or off, the 13v is still there.


Is that 13v on the switch leg to fixture or after ballast?


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## flyindawg (Apr 23, 2010)

Yes, sharing the common. Maybe isolating it with a relay might help.


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## flyindawg (Apr 23, 2010)

I am just bench testing these before installing them. The voltage is coming directly off the load side of the switch. I would hate to ruin a bunch of new warehouse lights with the wrong occ. sensors. If I can make these work, the cost saving is phenominal.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

weird wild stuff


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

be patient and some of the guys with extensive sensor/fluorescent experience will comment.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

The ones I was to install specified "Not for electronic t-8 Ballasts."


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

flyindawg said:


> I have some existing occupancy sensors in place already with an option for HID starting installed. We have just switched to T8's and my question is, can these sensors damage the new lights or ballasts. They are Sensor brand with a "Start to high option" installed that cannot be turned off in them. Anyone out there think that this option will adversely affect my new lights?
> 
> Thanks


 
You will need to change the sensor to work with electronique ballast due the circuitary set up and with HID majorty of them are magenetic type so it is not a issue with them and what more with HID motion sensor if it have Hi/ Lo mode what will do is switch the capaitor in the HID lumianires that how they dim it.

And with HID motion sensor they are programed to be running in high mode for first 15 minutes or so then after that it can be dim or whatever it will be on.

Merci,Marc


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

I have been looking for a motion (wall switch replacement) that work with electronic ballasts for over a year.. Found one for over $100. 
You will find that the regular motion switches draw their power though the lamp while in the off position (series) If the load is a T8 or a CFL or any other electronic ballast you will find that this flow will cause the lamps to have a slight flicker (when off) and will burn them out quite fast. 

Think the deal is you have to find a motion that has its own neutral connection so the power does not go though the ballast when off. 

The ones that are used in those flood lamp yard lights have that neutral and do support electronic ballasts.

They would look kinda funny on my bathroom wall though. :laughing:


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

The sensors wired in-line with load depends on the load itself to keep itself functioning when the power is off. When the power is off, the coils just act like a resistor. 

A sensor with neutral will get power from neutral and power source, so the control system within it is independent of load. If the load is larger than it can handle, it can be used to fire an external relay. 

You should get a new sensor anyways since HID specific ones probably have a off-delay, minimum on-time, etc. built into it.


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

Toronto Sparky said:


> I have been looking for a motion (wall switch replacement) that work with electronic ballasts for over a year.. Found one for over $100.
> You will find that the regular motion switches draw their power though the lamp while in the off position (series) If the load is a T8 or a CFL or any other electronic ballast you will find that this flow will cause the lamps to have a slight flicker (when off) and will burn them out quite fast.
> 
> Think the deal is you have to find a motion that has its own neutral connection so the power does not go though the ballast when off.
> ...


They don't sell Wattstopper in Canada? 

http://www.wattstopper.com/psg/


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

egads said:


> They don't sell Wattstopper in Canada?
> 
> http://www.wattstopper.com/psg/



Yes.. That is the one I found for $110 (if I remember)
It would take years to recover that cost.. 
I just get tired of turning off the washroom light over and over.
BTW the fixture I am controlling is a 2 lamp F14T5 
So needless to say it's not the energy issue , more of a leaving the lights on all day looks bad and annoys me..


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

Look at their residential controls. The ones that are over $100 are for higher commercial loads. (or a large residential garage)


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