# Twin Arc Fault Breakers



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I bet there ae circuits that you can easily double up. Like smoke, furnace and alarm panel. I would start there first..


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## rkelectric (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, but even with combining some circuits, I will either need to twin up, or add another subpanel. I have heard that Square D is making AFCI twins, but I don't know about Cutler-Hammer


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## donselec (May 7, 2011)

there is a old syle with the metal clip on the back to catch that mount strip and a new type thats all plastic molded into the the breaker....sounds like you need the old style


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

I can't imagine what such a beast would cost......it might be cheaper to replace the panel/service.


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## rkelectric (Feb 21, 2013)

@donselec-I am talking about a new panel, just installed. Wondering if anyone knows about twin afci breakers ie: 1515 made now


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Install regular tandems for the existing circuits, and double up lower drawing circuits, then install regular AFCI's. Unless you are required to install an AFCI when changing a breaker.


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## rkelectric (Feb 21, 2013)

The inspectors in San Diego are requiring AFCI protection on all circuits that are not dedicated, or GFI protected. This is a new home, there are no existing circuits, all are new. I am not looking to overload any circuits. I have already installed a Cutler Hammer panel. Either need to find listed twin AFCI breakers, or add a subpanel. Just wondering if anyone knows of a CH, or Siemens type twin?


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## vinister (Apr 11, 2012)

so on a brand new home, brand new service, you are leaving zero room for expansion?

Who planned this out?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Leviton sells an arc fault receptacle outlet now. Your supply house should already be stocking them. Only thing is there has to be conduit to the first outlet in the circuit.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Leviton sells an arc fault receptacle outlet now. Your supply house should already be stocking them. Only thing is there has to be conduit to the first outlet in the circuit.


And that will change in 2014 NEC 50' for 14/2 nm and 70' of 12/2nm to the first outlet unbroken run and then add the afci receptacle. Now you need mc or metal conduits, etc..

Also there is and never will be a twin afci. The Leviton afci receptacle is the only one on the market and only a few suppliers have them.. Womacks in Winston Salem, NC is the only one I know of in the state who has them


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I bet there ae circuits that you can easily double up. Like smoke, furnace and alarm panel. I would start there first..


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

rkelectric said:


> The inspectors in San Diego are requiring AFCI protection on all circuits that are not dedicated, or GFI protected. This is a new home, there are no existing circuits, all are new. I am not looking to overload any circuits. I have already installed a Cutler Hammer panel. Either need to find listed twin AFCI breakers, or add a subpanel. Just wondering if anyone knows of a CH, or Siemens type twin?


What the others havnt said so far: They dont exist

You will have to go the subpanel route, double up or simply not AFCI protect a few circuits. fwiw, smokes and unfinished basements in my area dont have to be on AFCI, just GFCI outlets.

EDIT: just read Dennis's post, I think he might be right in there never being a twin AFCI.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> And that will change in 2014 NEC 50' for 14/2 nm and 70' of 12/2nm to the first outlet unbroken run and then add the afci receptacle.


Dennis, where can I find this in print? TIA


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## rkelectric (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks for the info on them not existing. The receptacle route is where I was going originally, then I read the cut sheet from Leviton on needing to be in conduit, MC, etc. @Vinister: thanks for your concern (judgement?) This is a custom home, the panel in question is the second subpanel. As is often the case in large customs, the homeowner starts adding circuits late in the game, one after another. Next thing you know, NEARLY full. Not FULL, NEARLY full. When the project began, we were only required to use AFCI's in bedrooms. Now, at final, we are being asked to use them almost everywhere. Suddenly, what was a NEARLY full panel, is more than full.


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## GREGNC (Nov 13, 2007)

Dennis. How much are they


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## GREGNC (Nov 13, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Leviton sells an arc fault receptacle outlet now. Your supply house should already be stocking them. Only thing is there has to be conduit to the first outlet in the circuit.


if receptacles are available
how bout a short stub of emt from sub panel to afci receptacle then romex to wherever you wanted the rec. to begin with provided the sub is easy access for reset and doesnt trip to often


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## sullivanth (Feb 23, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> And that will change in 2014 NEC 50' for 14/2 nm and 70' of 12/2nm to the first outlet unbroken run and then add the afci receptacle. Now you need mc or metal conduits, etc..
> 
> Also there is and never will be a twin afci. The Leviton afci receptacle is the only one on the market and only a few suppliers have them.. Womacks in Winston Salem, NC is the only one I know of in the state who has them


 
Just a note - Pass and Seymor has an AFCI receptacle on the market now, as of January 2013


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

sullivanth said:


> Just a note - Pass and Seymor has an AFCI receptacle on the market now, as of January 2013


I have seen pictures in trade mags, but I don't think you can buy a
P&S AFCI receptacle currently.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

GREGNC said:


> if receptacles are available
> how bout a short stub of emt from sub panel to afci receptacle then romex to wherever you wanted the rec. to begin with provided the sub is easy access for reset and doesnt trip to often


Precisely. The usually empty wall below panels will start filling up with 4"sq boxes soon where there will be romex home runs run to that transition so the code can be met. It is completely ******** currently as it is written in the NEC, but that is what it is. An analysis of the costs involved in mounting a bracket to run lets say 4 side by side 4sq boxes with 1 gang switch rings, 12" of 1/2 emt x 4 runs, 8 box connectors , 6-8 wirenuts for the splices, 16'-20' of thhn for the final home runs (assuming 2-3 per box, box fill considered), and to my way of thinking, it is going to be just as expensive if not more so to install the outlets than it is to just install the breakers and run the nm straight into the panels. But for old existing situations, this does beat replacing the old panel to install say one afci breaker, or creating a sub panel just to do the same thing. You could cut out drywall for a clip in metal box, run 1/2" flex from panel to it, and put the receptacle into that, and load out with nm cable to the rest of the circuit. It is going to get weird under or next to panels to see a bunch of receptacle outlets... And of course a whole lot of local inspectors will decide that even though the code certainly states that this is compliant, they are going to say no, it (the afci receptacle) must be an emt run all the way to where the rest of the circuit devices are located, and then you put the afci receptacle there.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

rkelectric said:


> The inspectors in San Diego are requiring AFCI protection on all circuits that are not dedicated, or GFI protected. This is a new home, there are no existing circuits, all are new. I am not looking to overload any circuits. I have already installed a Cutler Hammer panel. Either need to find listed twin AFCI breakers, or add a subpanel. Just wondering if anyone knows of a CH, or Siemens type twin?


Usually you only have to comply to codes that existed when the permit was issued. I have never seem them try to enforce something that changed after the permit was issued.


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## Jim Michaels (May 3, 2021)

Dennis Alwon said:


> And that will change in 2014 NEC 50' for 14/2 nm and 70' of 12/2nm to the first outlet unbroken run and then add the afci receptacle. Now you need mc or metal conduits, etc..
> 
> Also there is and never will be a twin afci. The Leviton afci receptacle is the only one on the market and only a few suppliers have them.. Womacks in Winston Salem, NC is the only one I know of in the state who has them


Dennis, Welcome to NEVER!

Siemens NOW has TANDEM GFCI and Arc Fault breakers available.

The other brands will certainly follow shortly

You may want to invest in a new digital Ouija board for your predictions of what will/won't happen in the future.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

rkelectric said:


> The inspectors in San Diego are requiring AFCI protection on all circuits that are not dedicated, or GFI protected.


Zombie thread.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

99cents said:


> Zombie thread.


I'll give you a break, cause it's probably 5am out there when you posted this.... But you quoted the wrong guy


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

emtnut said:


> I'll give you a break, cause it's probably 5am out there when you posted this.... But you quoted the wrong guy


Thanks, mom.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

99cents said:


> Thanks, mom.


It's Forum Mom, geez, wake up already


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