# attaching head to fishtape



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

The complexity of the pull will determine the complexity of the head make up.

How full will the conduit be... how long end to end... how many bends... how heavy the wire... etc.

Basically just how much of a PITA would it be to have a failure will dictate how much time it's worth taking the trouble to make up the head and it appears you have that figured out ok.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

I've lost too many wires using the buddy wrap system so I strip almost every pull.

One thing I do a bit different though is use one or 2 sizes smaller on my strippers when stripping the wire. That reduces the amount of copper left so the head is smaller. The easiest way is to close my strippers down on the wire (using the size of stripping hole I want) and then setting the nose of the strippers on something solid, like a ladder step or solid table. Then pull the wire away from the stripper instead of the other way (normal way). It seems to make stripping the wire easier.

also, strip the different wires leaving different lengths for the head. That way the insulation will not all start at the same point and it tapers that area. Makes it easier to pull. Less chance of getting caught on things without having to wrap a bunch of tape on the head to smooth it.

or you could try this thing-a-ma-jig:

http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/pro_snatch_strap.htm#snatch


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

That Thing-a-ma-jig,looks like it would take up more room than the conductors.

I have never stripped wires (coductors) aside from specialty conductors, with anything other than a razor knife or my linesmans.
23 years,never had a known problem.
I will use the klein quik stripper for making up cans (over20 conductors) but thats it.
I like to travel light. some spend more time reaching into their bag-o-tricks then the job itself should take.


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

A length of jack chain works wonders for pulling wire. Attach it to the leader and put a wire or 2 in each link, nice and staggered. Where do you think they got the idea for the thing a ma jig?


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

Animal said:


> Any tips for fastening a head of wires to fishtape?
> 
> Usually I strip a few inches back, twist, leave one lead wire, and loop this one around the fishtape, then tape it all up. For smaller pulls (5-10 wires) is there a quicker way than stripping them all? Trying to work a little faster... Seems that just taping them all together tight, leaving one longer to loop around the fishtape, works ok, except that it's more likely to get detached during the pull.
> 
> Just looking for any useful suggestions or different approaches!


I have a couple of small 6” mesh type wire pulling grips that I occasionally use. They have a range from about ¼” to ½”, which loosely corresponds to a minimum of one RG6 coax or Cat5 cable, up to a max of approximately 10, #12’s or maybe 8, #10’s.
These are often faster and more secure than stripping and taping wires to the fishtape or pull line. I think they are either Klein or Greenlee. I know that McMaster-Carr sells them.


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## Animal (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey, great ideas guys. Do you still strip the wires when you use the chain, or can you just loop the conductors in the chain-links and tape over the head?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I do it the same way nap does it. Smaller head, easier pull. I try to push THHN through without the tape whenever possible. Now that saves time.


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

Animal said:


> Hey, great ideas guys. Do you still strip the wires when you use the chain, or can you just loop the conductors in the chain-links and tape over the head?


You could do it either way sometimes stripping will cut down on friction.


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## Marco Electric (Sep 18, 2008)

You could use a basket


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> I do it the same way nap does it. Smaller head, easier pull. I try to push THHN through without the tape whenever possible. Now that saves time.



I am with nap on this one, I use about half the strands of the wire for #10's and 12's and clip the rest. QAnd never have the copper come back as far as the insulation and attach all wires to the fish tape. There is nothing worse than losing wires in a pull.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Adam12 said:


> A length of jack chain works wonders for pulling wire. Attach it to the leader and put a wire or 2 in each link, nice and staggered. Where do you think they got the idea for the thing a ma jig?


Now there is an idea I had not heard before. Sounds like a worthwhile method. I'll have to give it a try.:thumbsup:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Marco Electric said:


> You could use a basket


I usually wrap 2 or 3 layers of tape around the bundle [making them one] then jam them in a basket. Just stretch the tape as you wrap to get a firm grip on all the wires.

On smaller pulls [3 or 4] I just loop them around the fish eye and thats been good enough.

~Matt


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*Jack chain*



nap said:


> Now there is an idea I had not heard before. Sounds like a worthwhile method. I'll have to give it a try.:thumbsup:


 (Class -0-'82) Never heard of this aswell. But if it works... all the better.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Animal said:


> Any tips for fastening a head of wires to fishtape?
> 
> Usually I strip a few inches back, twist, leave one lead wire, and loop this one around the fishtape, then tape it all up. For smaller pulls (5-10 wires) is there a quicker way than stripping them all? Trying to work a little faster... Seems that just taping them all together tight, leaving one longer to loop around the fishtape, works ok, except that it's more likely to get detached during the pull.
> 
> Just looking for any useful suggestions or different approaches!


if im fishing romex, i snip each side with my dikes, twist, and the sheath ,and black and white wires fall off and i use the EGC to pull with. bend that over, twist it nice and neat and tape. pulling into conduit, no matter what it is, 12 - 600 mcm i strip the ends, cut off strands if its larger wire, insert through fish tape or rope eye, bend over and tape like a bastard on big wire. ive also used the pull fingers for larger conductors. i dont like them that much they take too much time and can slip off. and i dont like baskets since they can slip off. i never tried those maxis pull grips though


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> I do it the same way nap does it. Smaller head, easier pull. I try to push THHN through without the tape whenever possible. Now that saves time.


i never had ANY luck pushing in conductors without tape. i normally push in wire in short straight runs, (~30 feet or so) but i bend over one wire to make a blunt end and tape them up and that works


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I've NEVER had a basket/finger come off.
I will add: I always tape, no matter how short a pull.
In the event you need to pull back.Nothing to get caught on the way out.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> i never had ANY luck pushing in conductors without tape. i normally push in wire in short straight runs, (~30 feet or so) but i bend over one wire to make a blunt end and tape them up and that works


If you can't push most all of your runs you are doing it wrong. I'm talking THHN. I understand the need for a tape when the run is long or there are several turns. In commercial or residential I rarely have to pull out the fishtape.
I have never fished NM and don't ever plan to.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

what jv said


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> If you can't push most all of your runs you are doing it wrong. I'm talking THHN. I understand the need for a tape when the run is long or there are several turns. In commercial or residential I rarely have to pull out the fishtape.
> I have never fished NM and don't ever plan to.


 

there is currently pipe on my job that is so rough inside that you cannot push a straight run of wire 30 feet. Dang, one pulling crew told me they had a 50' or so run that they had to run a fish in from the other direction to snag it becuase it is such crappy pipe.


and to changing it out;

I would guess there is well over 100,000' installed (of just this prepainted blue 3/4 and 1" pipe. We have 5 or 6 other colors and up to 4" in every color so there is a LOT more than the 100,000' in place). Not getting changed out.

I've been doing this too long to have somebody tell me I am doing it wrong because I need a fish tape. I use one when it is neccessary and try to not use one whenever I can. Maybe some day I will be as good as you with this stuff. I'll be sure to let the other 120 guys on my job know that they are doing this all wrong as well. I'm betting the guys with 40 years experience are getting close to learning how to do it.

and several turns? Dang guy, what are you piping? It is a challenge to keep the bends under 360º most of the time. I have runs that require multiple pull boxes just because of the space I am alloted to run in requires so many bends.

and this is in a small (670,000 sq ft) hospital.


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

I agree with you Nap its just easier and quicker to get it in the first time with a tape. 

Now if its short, sure push it in.

Is there a wrong way to push wire into a conduit??


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> If you can't push most all of your runs you are doing it wrong. I'm talking THHN. I understand the need for a tape when the run is long or there are several turns. In commercial or residential I rarely have to pull out the fishtape.
> I have never fished NM and don't ever plan to.


did you mean electrical tape? i thought that was what you were talking about. or did you mean fish tape?


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## Animal (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. In particular I want to thank nap for the suggestion on how to strip the wires for making the head... it sounds so obvious now but I hadn't thought of it. I was stripping the wires like usual (pulling strippers away from wire) which takes way too long.. now I just put the wire in strippers (about 6" of insulation), hold them against ladder, and pull. Works like magic, fast too!


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

:thumbsup:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Adam12 said:


> I agree with you Nap its just easier and quicker to get it in the first time with a tape.
> 
> Now if its short, sure push it in.
> 
> Is there a wrong way to push wire into a conduit??


 
Yes, Up! Use gravity to yopur advantage.:thumbsup:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> did you mean electrical tape? i thought that was what you were talking about. or did you mean fish tape?


A tape means fishtape.
Tape means tape.

To me. :thumbsup:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

leland said:


> Yes, Up! Use gravity to yopur advantage.:thumbsup:


And make sure the wire is coming off the reels nice and even. No kinks, no rollovers, the leader end is perfectly straight and symmetrical during the push. Flows thru like melted butter. If any significant resistance is felt, your doing it wrong. :thumbsup:

I know sometimes we must use our fishtapes/vacs/compressed air. But for most any branch circuit pushing it works just fine.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

My two cents. The only tough pulls of THWN or THHN I've had involved conduit which was either too small or with poorly made joints (in PVC.)

I make up the "bundle" too keep the wires from crossing over one another, then generally "feed" the pull more than I pull the pull. With NM, I slide the conduit over the cable, then make it up.


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## steve134 (Apr 5, 2008)

i see more guys wasting time trying to push wires in than it would take to use a sparks tape or fish tape. here everything is in conduit, so usually we have two apprentices suck lines for half a day. seems to really speed up the process when it comes time for wire pulling..


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> And make sure the wire is coming off the reels nice and even. No kinks, no rollovers, the leader end is perfectly straight and symmetrical during the push. Flows thru like melted butter.* If any significant resistance is felt, your doing it wrong. :thumbsup:*
> 
> I know sometimes we must use our fishtapes/vacs/compressed air. But for most any branch circuit pushing it works just fine.





waco said:


> My two cents. *The only tough pulls of THWN or THHN I've had involved conduit which was either too small or with poorly made joints (in PVC.)*
> 
> I make up the "bundle" too keep the wires from crossing over one another, then generally "feed" the pull more than I pull the pull. With NM, I slide the conduit over the cable, then make it up.


You guys are welcome to reread my earlier post 

btw john; we have branch circuits that run several hundred feet. You pushing that with no string or tape?



steve134 said:


> i see more guys wasting time trying to push wires in than it would take to use a sparks tape or fish tape. here everything is in conduit, so usually we have two apprentices suck lines for half a day. seems to really speed up the process when it comes time for wire pulling..


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

If its more than 10' just get the dang fish tape and quit wasting time. I get ticked when I see guys struggling to push wires through a piece of conduit. Then again we use stranded for everything.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

company i work for only uses solid and we are not the best pipe benders if you know what i mean - oh and did i mention that most of our 1/2" pipe runs are maxed out from the start of the job - i think its stupid to be lubbing 80' wire pulls but we do it out of neccessaty


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

nolabama said:


> company i work for only uses solid and we are not the best pipe benders if you know what i mean - oh and did i mention that most of our 1/2" pipe runs are maxed out from the start of the job - i think its stupid to be lubbing 80' wire pulls but we do it out of neccessaty


 Sounds like you may need to find a better company.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

no kidding really, i know this but i dont change jobs before Christmas , i am fortunate to be working right now - my buddy really wants me to go to local 130 and try to get organized - i may be taking him up on this soon


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

nolabama said:


> my buddy really wants me to go to local 130 and try to get organized - i may be taking him up on this soon


What's the matter you not so good at housekeeping?


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

for my part, I assume somebody is pulling while somebody is pushing. I often run a long fishtape (or pull wire) so I can both push and pull if I'm working alone.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I generally don't strip more than 3 wires. I can tape really tightly and never lose wires. I once pulled in something like a dozen 8's thru 150' of existing 1 1/4" undergound PVC. That's when I learned to trust my tape. Use quality tape and stretch it tightly.

It's all about steath and areodynamics. Be one with the wire.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

Animal said:


> Thanks for all the replies, everyone. In particular I want to thank nap for the suggestion on how to strip the wires for making the head... it sounds so obvious now but I hadn't thought of it. I was stripping the wires like usual (pulling strippers away from wire) which takes way too long.. now I just put the wire in strippers (about 6" of insulation), hold them against ladder, and pull. Works like magic, fast too!


This is a great tip! I mostly dismissed it after reading it, but on the job after I had a wire strip way easier then expected and hitting the ladder with my knuckles I tried the hold strippers on ladder and pull wire.... my god is it ever nice and easy, I wish I was shown this when i first started, lol



leland said:


> Use gravity to yopur advantage.:thumbsup:


Not aways!
I was helping with a couple big wire pulls on a job a few weeks back, one was from the roof (22 floors i think) to the main electrical room in P1 level, straight down. 3 00 ACWU. Wire was in the basement, so we tried pulling up, but with 4 of us pulling we couldn't so we craned it up to the roof and set up, started feeding it down, got oh I dont know 30% of the way down when gravity took over and we could no longer hold the wire from coming off the reels, the guys in the electrical room got out just in time before all 1000 feet of wire spun off all the reels and coiled up in the electrical room. 
Insulation was all damaged and coiled so bad all we could do was cut it up into 10' pieces and send it off to the recyclers. There were 2 journeymen, my boss, the owner of the company, site super and then 4 of us apprentices, and none of us thought it might happen like this. lol
Quite the learner experience though.



steve134 said:


> i see more guys wasting time trying to push wires in than it would take to use a sparks tape or fish tape. here everything is in conduit, so usually we have two apprentices suck lines for half a day. seems to really speed up the process when it comes time for wire pulling..


We have over 200,000 feet of coreline in the slabs on the site I am at right now, mostly all 3/4". between 3 and 6 #12 solid and a #14 ground in them. And we push 90% of the runs. the only ones we need to fish are the ones over 100' or when the coreline goes through the transfer beams because then often there is more then 360 degrees of bends and 2 90's that are pretty harsh. But its not always possible to get pull boxes in to split the runs up a bit. And some runs the coreline gets pinched a bit while they are pouring and the watcher doesnt notice. But IMO its way faster to push if the vast majority of runs are known to be easy to push. 

Whats a sparks tape? I havent heard that before. 
firealarm we vacuum strings first though.



dawgs said:


> Then again we use stranded for everything.


I despise stranded, it fills the conduit more, is a pain to strip, especially when its cold, and you have to splice in a solid for the 347 lighting disconnect clip. We only used stranded when we were using up scab rolls from another job and only to keep pulling when a wire order is delayed.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> There were 2 journeymen, my boss, the owner of the company, site super and then 4 of us apprentices, and none of us thought it might happen like this.


I heard this story as a first year apprentice in 1975. It seems so obvious from my perspective.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

220/221 said:


> I heard this story as a first year apprentice in 1975. It seems so obvious from my perspective.


I never heard it, but I did see it. 
Apparently they have done it before without problems. But normally they put a couple off sets on the way down to add some resistance. This one was straight down. 

Before that run I personally have only pulled a couple 8/3 bx down from a 9th floor, but because of rushes on a couple of the floor pours the cans were only in the same general area in the wall, give or take 4 feet, so it snaked back and forth, and it wasnt ran in pipe either. Normally I only do the stuff where I go up or down a floor. So I was the guy there trying to learn something from the guys that have done this many times before.


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