# fire alarm



## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Obviously labor is wicked cheap, and I have a half reel of FPLR/4 wire so I'd be buying a F/A panel, devices, and maybe an annunciator. What do you think? ****e load if 3 wire with old work boxes? Or low voltage??


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## TattooMan (Feb 10, 2012)

TimChaput69 said:


> Need to install a f/a system in the house we bought. I keep going back and forth about doing a 3 wire line voltage system.....or....go kooko with a low voltage, addressable system with an annunciator!! What do you guys think!!?? Price comes up about the same.


I say go low voltage


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TimChaput69 said:


> Obviously labor is wicked cheap, and I have a half reel of FPLR/4 wire so I'd be buying a F/A panel, devices, and maybe an annunciator. What do you think? ****e load if 3 wire with old work boxes? Or low voltage??


Go with low voltage you already have the wire so save some bucks.:thumbup:


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Thats what I was thinking. I also was thinking of putting the annouciator panel in the master bedroom!!


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## TattooMan (Feb 10, 2012)

TimChaput69 said:


> Thats what I was thinking. I also was thinking of putting the annouciator panel in the master bedroom!!


Screw that. Put it in the living room so when you entertain your guests will wonder what the hell fancy contraption you have. You can make up all sorts of nifty stories to tell people


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Ha!! Good idea, but don't wanna scare the common folk!! Would rather get woken up and be able to look at the panel and know where the problem is.;-)


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

No, really, what do you guys think? Is it over kill or not such a bad idea. Just thought of it today and figured it wouldn't be a bad idea.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TimChaput69 said:


> No, really, what do you guys think? Is it over kill or not such a bad idea. Just thought of it today and figured it wouldn't be a bad idea.


I think you have a good plan.:thumbup:


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## TattooMan (Feb 10, 2012)

TimChaput69 said:


> No, really, what do you guys think? Is it over kill or not such a bad idea. Just thought of it today and figured it wouldn't be a bad idea.


A bit of both. Overkill but overkill in that area can only be a good thing


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Use a Firelite non-addressable system.. (4) zone.. http://www.firelite.com/products/ms4.html

They also make a (2) zone fire panel or you could combine it with a security system and do both..


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Why ? Are you going to put mini piezeo sounders in each bedroom? Pull stations? Sounds way overkill. Unless you have a multi family, with common areas. There's no point imo.


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## Albertaelectric (May 4, 2012)

A guy in my company put one in. Full meal deal C/W ULC monitoring. He got a huge discount on his home insurance.


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

They do make interconnected wireless systems now. I don't see how wireless, or hardwired 120V would be even close to a complete LV system.

http://www.kidde.com/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-53/0,8062,pageId=4364&siteId=384,00.html


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TimChaput69 said:


> Need to install a f/a system in the house we bought. I keep going back and forth about doing a 3 wire line voltage system.....or....go kooko with a low voltage, addressable system with an annunciator!! What do you guys think!!?? Price comes up about the same.


Check your local codes, very likely you must install line voltage smoke alarms regardless of any system you install.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

To expand on this a bit.

Most local codes require 'Smoke *Alarms*' for single family dwellings. Smoke alarms are a specific listing category and commonly are self contained smoke sensor with self contained horns.

On the other hand, if you install a full on fire panel and system the devices you use would be 'smoke *detectors'* not smoke alarms. You can install smoke alarms but you may end up installing a smoke alarm right beside it.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Didn't even think about that aspect BBQ, glad I asked. I'll check with the town on Monday. Thanks guys


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

You're down in the basement, alarm goes off. You run up to the bedroom to see where? No.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

bobelectric said:


> You're down in the basement, alarm goes off. You run up to the bedroom to see where? No.


If I'm in the basement and the alarm goes off it's probably cause I set it off!!;-) Also if smokes go off on a regular 3 wire system your not gonna know where it is either, right?


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

the detectors i used have a flashing red light on the one that caused the alarm.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Use a Firelite non-addressable system.. (4) zone.. http://www.firelite.com/products/ms4.html
> 
> They also make a (2) zone fire panel or you could combine it with a security system and do both..


I know you will accuse me of picking on you  , but why on earth would you recommend a non-addressable system in this day and age? Every single modern fire alarm installed is now addressable, other than a system for a very small building or a single room. The wiring is simpler and the troubleshooting is straightforward. I can't think of a single compelling reason to install antiquated technology in 2012.


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

Second the security system with smokes.
Peace of mind and insurance savings.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I know you will accuse me of picking on you  , but why on earth would you recommend a non-addressable system in this day and age? Every single modern fire alarm installed is now addressable, other than a system for a very small building or a single room. The wiring is simpler and the troubleshooting is straightforward. I can't think of a single compelling reason to install antiquated technology in 2012.


No Pete.. I don't think you are picking on me..:no:

He is installing the system in a house.. not a commercial building..

I still see non-addressable systems being installed around here and they work just fine..

Dept. of MV has one.. not exactly a 1000 sq. ft. building.. 

Standing on line I look up at the ceiling tiles to see how many have a "bulge" from the dome cameras some hack installed without any support..

I have one account with a Silent Knight 5808 system.. royal PIA to do inspections because you can only use canned smoke..

It has (50)+ smokes and 14' ceilings...


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> To expand on this a bit.
> 
> Most local codes require 'Smoke *Alarms*' for single family dwellings. Smoke alarms are a specific listing category and commonly are self contained smoke sensor with self contained horns.
> 
> On the other hand, if you install a full on fire panel and system the devices you use would be 'smoke *detectors'* not smoke alarms. You can install smoke alarms but you may end up installing a smoke alarm right beside it.


 
That is exactly how it is handled here.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

Why do you need a fire alarm system in your house.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I know you will accuse me of picking on you  , but why on earth would you recommend a non-addressable system in this day and age? Every single modern fire alarm installed is now addressable, other than a system for a very small building or a single room. The wiring is simpler and the troubleshooting is straightforward. I can't think of a single compelling reason to install antiquated technology in 2012.


I have to ask.. how many FA systems have you installed is a house..:blink::blink:

So far.. my count has been a big fat ZERO.. 

Nobody else has raised the question.. must be part of a "kinder and gentler ET forum".. how long is this going to last.. :jester:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I know you will accuse me of picking on you  , but why on earth would you recommend a non-addressable system in this day and age? Every single modern fire alarm installed is now addressable, other than a system for a very small building or a single room. The wiring is simpler and the troubleshooting is straightforward. I can't think of a single compelling reason to install antiquated technology in 2012.


If I had to install a small system I would likely go conventional as it costs less and requires no programming.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

I am working in a small place now and we are installing a conventional system, place only has 6 or 7 zones and maybe half a dozen relays for some fire dampers and furnace shut off.


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## TattooMan (Feb 10, 2012)

B4T said:


> No Pete.. I don't think you are picking on me..:no:
> 
> He is installing the system in a house.. not a commercial building..
> 
> ...


In the Cisco Systems buildings we do there are between 175-200 smokes, plus about 30 fsd's and 5-6 rooftop ac units. All needing to be tested with smoke.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> If I had to install a small system I would likely go conventional as it costs less and requires no programming.


As would I. But I guess the line in the sand is what you would call a small system.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> No Pete.. I don't think you are picking on me..:no:


Good, maybe that skin is getting a little thicker now. :thumbsup:



> He is installing the system in a house.. not a commercial building..


For a house I would use a combo fire/burg system.



> I still see non-addressable systems being installed around here and they work just fine..


I see them too, but none of them installed recently. In fact, my state laws are so strict that old systems basically have to be ripped out and replaced with modern addressable systems. 

Beepers work fine too, but they are antiquated technology. :laughing:



> I have one account with a Silent Knight 5808 system.. royal PIA to do inspections because you can only use canned smoke..
> 
> It has (50)+ smokes and 14' ceilings...


They make smoke in a can with a long wand to reach. 



> I have to ask.. how many FA systems have you installed is a house..:blink::blink:
> 
> So far.. my count has been a big fat ZERO..


Never seen or installed one either. The closest to a fire alarm is adding a few smoke detectors to the burglar alarm panel, which is allowed to take the place of line voltage interconnected ones here. 



> Nobody else has raised the question.. must be part of a "kinder and gentler ET forum".. how long is this going to last.. :jester:


I'm not going to be the first to find out. :jester:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I see them too, but none of them installed recently. In fact, my state laws are so strict that old systems basically have to be ripped out and replaced with modern addressable systems.


Pre-action systems I have installed and see are typically conventional systems with just 2 or 4 zones.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_sprinkler_system#Pre-Action_Systems

Along with being installed in data centers (I did one at the Blue Cross Blue Shield building in Providence.) Dennis and I installed seven separate pre-action panels in the paper file rooms of a drug manufacturer. In all these cases these systems where monitored by the buildings addressable main system.

As a side note, when I used to work at this building



















it had a conventional system.

The fire panel room was about 12' x 30' with panels filling every bit of wall space and about 8 bazillion conductors coming into it.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Pre-action systems I have installed and see are typically conventional systems with just 2 or 4 zones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For that it makes sense.  For the record, I'm not saying conventional is totally useless. 



> As a side note, when I used to work at this building
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously? :blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Good, maybe that skin is getting a little thicker now. :thumbsup:


There is nothing wrong with my "skin".. never has been.. so lets just drop it.. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Seriously? :blink:


Yeah, it may have been replaced by now.

It was original to the building.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> There is nothing wrong with my "skin".. never has been..



Yeah, ok. :wallbash:


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

B4T said:


> I have to ask.. how many FA systems have you installed is a house..:blink::blink:
> 
> So far.. my count has been a big fat ZERO..
> 
> Nobody else has raised the question.. must be part of a "kinder and gentler ET forum".. how long is this going to last.. :jester:


24 combos and 4 full blown fire alarm separated from the burg. Three of those had access control


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## zerogroundfaults (May 7, 2012)

B4T said:


> No Pete.. I don't think you are picking on me..:no:
> 
> He is installing the system in a house.. not a commercial building..
> 
> ...


Use one 8 ft. pvc pipe, 1 4 ft. pvc pipe... 1/2" or 3/4" pvc pipe with an 2liter plastic soda bottle cut in half.... smoke em at the bottom end of pvc... that smoke will hit it great and quick. I can test 30+ smokes an hour using this method.


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## zerogroundfaults (May 7, 2012)

Why not just install a addressable system like the silent knight ms5-ud ?


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## TattooMan (Feb 10, 2012)

zerogroundfaults said:


> Use one 8 ft. pvc pipe, 1 4 ft. pvc pipe... 1/2" or 3/4" pvc pipe with an 2liter plastic soda bottle cut in half.... smoke em at the bottom end of pvc... that smoke will hit it great and quick. I can test 30+ smokes an hour using this method.


Or just buy the extendable wand


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

it is very common to install a fire alarm system in the houses out here, as well as a full sprinkler system too.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah, sprinklers systems have been required here in houses for the last 10 years now but haven't run into any F/A systems. Like I said have FPLR and just a thought that hit me the other day. Looking for pros and cons........I found alot of both I see!!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I had a fire alarm battery unit melt down and smoke in a counseling office around Feb of this year, and it set off the fire alarm. How ironic.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

One of the problems with residential sprinkler systems is how long the water sits in the lines and gets stagnant. It stinks to high heaven if it ever goes off. Some of the better plumbers are running fixtures like toilets, that get used often, on the end of the sprinkler line, so that the water is fairly fresh if the sprinklers ever go off. Unlike commercial sprinklers, resi sprinklers do not have to be their own separate system.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah,I've seen that done here. Another thing thats done is the sprinkler system is run in an orange PVC rather than black iron. Also been told they need to be purged every so often just for that reason. Anyway still looking at products, and getting input from my GC (wife!!) about what type system I'm gonna do. I have a friend that can program F/A systems also so that kicks me down the LV road just a bit further. Since I mentioned to my wi-errr GC that I can piggyback a security system on the LV she's warming up to it too. Anyway I'll keep y'all posted, thanks again.


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