# Is it normal to feel like a complete idiot as a first year apprentice?



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Efficiency will only come with experience. And experience will only come with time.

It's totally normal to forget things once in a while. You're human (or at least I hope you are!), so don't worry about it.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like you're doing a lot better than me in my first year.


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## mizterjimbo (Apr 19, 2009)

hell yeah it's normal, went through the prog. first day , honestly i had no freakin idea what i was doin, no experiece what so ever. it was funny all i can say now is enjoy it while you an apprentice.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*Relax!!!!!!!!*

All that expsosure to different aspects in only 4 (four) months!

Heck! Some apprentices go at it for 4 years before they see some of that stuff!!!

Keep at it and learn from it. If your with the J-man- think ahead.
Nothing better (as a J-man) than thinking i need this...and there it is in your hand !!!!
Keep at it-pay attention--and you'll be fine. :thumbup:

Your expected to mess up-stumble- Thats how you learn.

If you do these things and don't learn........ Nothing more to be said!


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Yeah, it's normal. Just make sure you learn from your mistakes. Write things down!! I see alot of the temp guys working under me doing that when I give them things to do, DO IT!


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Wow my first six months were a hammer and chisel and the coffee list


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

if you want to become more efficient at what you do, 
1) learn from the best guys the right way to do things, watch them when you can to try to pick up tips on quicker and easier ways to do things
2) learn from other people's mistakes what not to do and how to avoid mistakes that they have made
3) try to figure out ways to avoid your own mistakes, especially if you are making repeat mistakes. example, if you are rushing to install, say, ballasts, make sure you check and tug every wire before you put the fixture back together, in a specific order. If you are missing items as you rough in, stand back after every section of wall and double check before you go on, or lay the boxes where they go and check them off on the plans as you wire, but for God sakes find a way and a system that works for you so you don't screw up and make yourself a more valuable employee (and you will be doing yourself a favor because you will also be able to command a better wage at some point).

finally, don't beat yourself up, 4 mos is pretty green.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

Sounds like your doing it but one of the biggest things I want from an apprentice is to think about what we are doing. Try to see the big picture. WHen guys do this they seem to anticipate things that need to be done or things that they can do to help me. First year just show me you are paying attention to what we are doing and show me you want to do it. DOing this causes me to forget a lot of mistakes one might make. I still make mistakes and say to myself "I'm an idiot". It only gets better with time! Damn I'm just rambling.. GOod luck!!


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes you should feel like an idiot, quite natural.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Breakfasteatre said:


> So Im 4 months into my apprenticeship and at times i feel like im moving backwards.
> 
> My experience so far has been roughing, ie boxing, cutting in plugs and switches, one way, three way, installing receptacles, switchs, replacing knob and tube with new wire, pot lights new construction and old work, ive done some panel cutting in and commercial stuff such as putting up conduit, pulling wire, connecting new ballasts.
> 
> ...


This means that you are totally aware of what you are doing. If you do not think you are making mistakes and correcting them than you would be someone that knew nothing, but thought they new everything.
Keep busy, try to gain efficiency and remember that you are there to learn.
We older electricians have seen many young guys start out and enjoy the enthusiasm of someone like you.
Work hard, go home tired and don't be afraid to get dirty.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

There days as a master that you feel like an idiot. Everyone has those days throughout their career.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

The "grunt work" can be mind-numbingly boring, but part of the learning is learning how to keep awake doing boring work. If you are able to endure the part meant to weed out people, you'll end up still doing work that is pretty boring, but which can also be rewarding. I think all jobs end up being a little boring.

Pay attention -- focus -- but don't question yourself, but simply understand the job.


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## Thomps (Nov 27, 2008)

OP ~ Where you finally able to get registered? I remember a couple of months ago you were mentioning some concerns about not being able to get registered as an appprentice with your employer.


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## hogsmoss (Apr 30, 2009)

ten years later and i still feel like an idiot:blink:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*first year*

It is normal. That is why you get 4 to 5 years to become somewhat proficient.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much over how you 'feel.' How you 'feel' can be very misleading.

Right now, you're just learning an awful lot at once, and not just the electric stuff. You're learning construction, how things are built, how job sites operate, the effect of working in the weather.

More dangerous is the feeling you will get around the end of your second year, that you're 'practically' an electrician, and just need to 'put in your time' for the piece of paper. Ha!

That will happen when you're comfortable with the limited tasks you've been assigned so far, and have not yet seen the rest of the trade. It's also when you get yourself hurt, because you're over-confident.


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

Amish Electrician said:


> I wouldn't worry too much over how you 'feel.' How you 'feel' can be very misleading.
> 
> Right now, you're just learning an awful lot at once, and not just the electric stuff. You're learning construction, how things are built, how job sites operate, the effect of working in the weather.
> 
> ...


Very true, I've worked with a couple apprentices that got over confident. One guy decided to change out a GFCI receptacle hot, sat his butt on the ground, slide up to the receptacle and started to pull it out. I walked around the corner and asked him if he shut the power off, his response was "Phhsshh, I'm not a puss, I got this.", I pointed out to him that with his fat butt on the ground he can count on being electrocuted if he came into contact with the hot. He got up and turned the power off.


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## petek57 (Mar 3, 2009)

*Practice in your head*



Breakfasteatre said:


> So Im 4 months into my apprenticeship and at times i feel like im moving backwards.
> 
> My experience so far has been roughing, ie boxing, cutting in plugs and switches, one way, three way, installing receptacles, switchs, replacing knob and tube with new wire, pot lights new construction and old work, ive done some panel cutting in and commercial stuff such as putting up conduit, pulling wire, connecting new ballasts.
> 
> ...


On your way to work go thru what your expectations are. Ratchet up your expectations incrementally (day by day, month by month)

Pursue improvements in your own performance. Others are around for you to learn from. Comparing yourself to others can be humiliating. Challenges are ok..humiliation can be debilitating.

On your way home rehearse in your mind your greatest accomplishments of the day. Were there 10? What 1 thing can you improve?

Obsess with improvement. Learn from your mistakes and let them go.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I still feel like an idiot and probably am. I passed my Journeyman the first time when only maybe 4 or 5 pass the first time according to the county inspection dept. BUT that just means I knew enough to start learning to be a real electrician. Even now I take every opportunity to learn from guys like my old fart of an electrician dad because there is so much to learn and it changes often. Do Every Task Assigned to you Correctly the First time. Your teachers will notice that over speed. is all you will get if your workmanship is crappy.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Relax - Everone feels like an idiot at some point in time.
I've been involved with the trade for 28 years. 
I still have those "duh moments" 
Anyone who says they do not either is lying or not doing anything.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> Relax - Everone feels like an idiot at some point in time.
> I've been involved with the trade for 28 years.
> I still have those "duh moments"
> Anyone who says they do not either is lying or not doing anything.


LIke chasing why a light won't work for 45 minutes only to find out the switch is off?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Breakfasteatre said:


> So Im 4 months into my apprenticeship and at times i feel like im moving backwards.
> 
> My experience so far has been roughing, ie boxing, cutting in plugs and switches, one way, three way, installing receptacles, switchs, replacing knob and tube with new wire, pot lights new construction and old work, ive done some panel cutting in and commercial stuff such as putting up conduit, pulling wire, connecting new ballasts.
> 
> ...



Don't get down on yourself,your doing fine.I found as a green apprentice having a good work ethic will allow you to make up for some "newbie mistakes".

1) Come to work 10 minutes early everyday,Be ready to work when the day starts.
2) Be prepared have everything you need to be on the Job site.(proper hand tools,good boots,gloves,note pads and pencil.)
3) Don't be afraid to ask questions,ask,ask and ask some more.
4) Learn the proper terminology of materials,and if some one asks you to get something that you don't know what it is ask them what it is.
5) try to surround yourself with the "good guys" on the job and pick up what they know.
6) If your giving something menial to do (like trash clean up or brake order)go about with a good attitude.This will lead to better assignments later.


Nothing replaces time and experience but having the right work ethic will go a long way to becoming a skilled and competent electrician.After a few years you will start to feel relaxed and confident.That's when a lot of guy's start to think they can let there ethic slip a bit.Don't fall into that trap having a strong work ethic will allow you to continue to develop through out your career.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Sometimes i will feel like i have forgotten how to do something when i have been doing it over and over for the past almost 5 months now.


You sound like our newest guy. He obviously has severe ADD and, although he's a really great guy, he won't be around much longer. We will give him 4 tasks and he will complete 3. If we give him 3, he will complete 2. I try to teach him the basics but it just doesn't sink in.

I still feel like an idiot at times but that's because my brain function is degenerating with age. A young apprentice should be sharp with a mind like a sponge.

There is a LOT to learn in this trade. Your good attitude will certainly help and I wish you the best. Search for what you do best and move in that direction.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

brian john said:


> LIke chasing why a light won't work for 45 minutes only to find out the switch is off?


or like changing the bulb in the recessed light over the shower, then when it still wouldn't light, pulling down the trim and starting to look at the wiring j-box before remembering you put it on the load side of the GFCI when you wired your house.reset the GFCI everything works! Yep been there done that :whistling2:


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## CFine (May 20, 2008)

Everyone goes through this, Hell i remember hating my first Jman. Now me and him are great friends i later switch companies due to being laid off, he got me the job too. But now i work with a guy that had a attitude i laid into him and he now respects me. I show up to work 10 to 15 min early tools ready and i start on 3 or 4 projects. Knowing how to do something is good, If you can't remember that is normal we all do that. Hell my Jman asked me if why i installed 37 GFI's upside down, i felt pretty stupid after i realized that they where upside down. Don't ever make up excuses if you do something the way your taught then let them know that, and ask if they want you to do it Their way. No such thing as a dumb question. If your Not enjoying what your doing, Having fun, and learning, then your not doing something right. And on a very important note, If your are in the middle of a project and close to being done, Finish the project Even if it is time to go home let him know you wanna finish what your in the middle of doing and then go home. This shows him your wanting to finish your work make sure its good and not their just for a paycheck but to learn and get the job done. And also a Job with 138 Change orders for Electrical side(not including other trades) is a bad jobsite to be on. lol


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## black (Oct 12, 2011)

Feeling like a moron is normal. Most of the people you work with will be understanding of the fact that you are green, as long as you have the correct work ethic. You will encounter the occasional miserable a-hole who will decide to make your life a living hell. Unfortunately, you have to grin and bear it, continue to focus, and learn as much as you can. Do not let that feeling of insecurity shake your tree. Keep going. Eventually you will begin to notice that your skills have improved.


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

I am almost 3 years in now, interesting time to reply to the thread 

I feel much better now, in fact i feel like A very good apprentice electrician.

I finished basic in the winter, at the top of the class, and generally, on site I am entrusted to work on my own.

I am now working with a commercial company, and officially a registered apprentice.

Looking back, I think the biggest problem was that I was never given the benefit of the doubt, blamed for every problem that went wrong, and I had my foreman breathing down my neck all the time. The pressure as a first term apprentice expected to be doing work on my own wasnt conducive to work being done properly. Especially when alot of the time it was something i was seeing for the first time. I should have been watching, learning, and giving a hand, and not thrown at a job without any or little instruction.


That first company seems to be prototypical of many small companies in Ontario, taking advantage of young guys with the promise of a registered apprenticeship.

whenever i asked about registration i always got the run around, and after a year working for them and asking that one last time was met with no definitive answer, i knew it was time to find another company. 

anyways, thought I would let you guys know that Im still in the trade  and doing very well. My wage on the other hand


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

These days I feel like an idiot but as an apprentice, I kicked ass.

I was trimming out houses from day one with only a few minutes of instruction

I was installing services in the second week.

I was running a crew, roughing in house within three months.

I was troubleshooting resi stuff after a few months.

First side job was around the 6 month mark (underground rigid/landscape lights)

I did an overhead service change alone in about six months.



It went downhill after that. Today I installed freaking ceiling fans :jester:


*And* replied to a post that I already replied to a couple years ago. :jester:


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

220/221 said:


> *And* replied to a post that I already replied to a couple years ago. :jester:



i always wonder how a thread like this gets bumped up from the dead after a couple years.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Maybe Black will tell us? 

How many pages back was it? 

He must have been searching "apprentice" threads and decided to reply to yours without realizing the conversation was a couple years old.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Breakfasteatre said:


> I am almost 3 years in now, interesting time to reply to the thread
> 
> I feel much better now, in fact i feel like A very good apprentice electrician.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you aren't me? That sounds like my story. Glad you're out of that mess. :thumbsup:


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## Cujo (Feb 4, 2012)

Breakfasteatre said:


> I am almost 3 years in now, interesting time to reply to the thread
> 
> I feel much better now, in fact i feel like A very good apprentice electrician.
> 
> ...


LOL sounds just like me. I lived in Ontario, basically seems just like what happened to you. I moved to Alberta and things turned around, I got registered etc. Not to say I didnt learn anything in the first ~10 months or so, but the experience was much like you described. 

Glad things are working out for you, especially in Ontario. And if you find that your wage is a problem, look west.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Old thread?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Its never easy in the beginning. In fact I almost gave up up more than one occasion.
I can remember a mechanic telling me that "one day, a light switch would go on in my head and all these things you are learning will make sense and will all fit together like a puzzle solved". He did not mean that I would automatically know everything. But that things would start making sense.
Now I was not installing. I was troubleshooting and maintaining electromotive equipment.
He was right.
One day on the way home from work, something clicked and I understood a particular circuit and how it behaved and how it worked.
From there things started clicking everyday. I was a Journeyman before this happened.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I remember doing things like......using a 10" sheetrock hand saw to cut in a gem box, but cutting thru the opposing layer of sheetrock in the next room too.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Those who make others feel like idiots are usually tiring to draw attention away from their own imperfections. On the other hand.. If you feel like an idiot than it's your own feeling and it should inspire you to step it up so you don't feel that way about yourself.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

as a 1st yr appr i was told to always have 
1. change for a dollar( incase my jman was thirsty
2. a lighter ( incase my jmam forgot his)
3. carry a 10 in one,a pair of *****, a volt tracer and a roll of 33+


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

brian john said:


> LIke chasing why a light won't work for 45 minutes only to find out the switch is off?


:laughing:
This could possibly be the only mistake I haven't made, but the list of humbling f-ups is long and embarrassing. I prefer to consider them lessons you're guaranteed to *never* forget.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I used to install my receptacles ground up when i started, found myself working with a crew that did ground down. Discovered the discrepancy when we got done.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Every day I am presented with multiple opportunities to embarrass myself!


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Ground up or down? Always a argument.. Personally Mine are always down so when someone steps on the cord the ground will be the last pin to dis-engage.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I still feel like an idiot at times. The problems are a lot harder and I am not much smarter so it makes for long days sometimes.  I have had my butt kicked so many times this past year I quit counting, but I learn from those mistakes and don't make the same ones twice. Then I come here and hear folks like Jraef talk about trip curves for breakers like its no big deal and others problems and I don't feel as stupid.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

You guys are embarassing yourselves replying to a thread this old.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Here's the usual progression:

First month: you're fascinated, everything is new to you. Maybe you do feel like an idiot, because you're using all sorts of tools that don't have "Craftsman" on them.
The rest of the first year: you feel like slave labor, and the shovel is your best friend.

Second year: You hve the confidence of a seasoned pro. You begin to think you live atop a ladder.

Third year: Now you know everything, and are just putting in your time.

Fourth year: Just filling in the blanks.

Graduation: You suddenly realize that your learning has just begun.


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

kaboler said:


> You guys are embarassing yourselves replying to a thread this old.


 
Not really. Threads are for everyone, not just the OP.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

I tell my new guys they are expected to make mistakes the first time that is the only way for them to learn. The second time, that is a different story! 

It is quite arrogant of an apprentice to think they are not going to make mistakes.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

kaboler said:


> You guys are embarassing yourselves replying to a thread this old.


Did you see how/who revived it?
:icon_redface:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

"better to feel like a complete idiot than act like a complete azzhole"


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> "better to feel like a complete idiot than act like a complete azzhole"


Really. Not me


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## Prozium (Jun 13, 2012)

kaboler said:


> You guys are embarassing yourselves replying to a thread this old.


As someone who has my new apprentice orientation on January 10th, I've really enjoyed reading this thread, both old and new posts.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I hate to tell you, but it doesn't get any easier with a license or experience. There are still many days to look forward to when you will go home from work feeling like an idiot. :laughing:

-John


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

brian john said:


> LIke chasing why a light won't work for 45 minutes only to find out the switch is off?


The hardest thing I had to tell a good customer that called about a room full of "defective receptacles" was that the bottom half was switched and the switch needed to be ON


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

The best way to please the "boss" is make a list of his/her chores, ask the order they should be done and *never* leave something half done without telling the boss


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## Morales5712 (Oct 13, 2018)

i just got assign grunt work, at this new company i'm working for it seems like theirs not that much work left i have about a year and some change of experience and let me tell you grunt work is very demoralizing.


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

Hilarious. 12 years later, I've been a site supervisor ever since I got my license 7 years ago. I don't think I'm an idiot anymore


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

For the last two posters (and I know this is a 12-year-old post).

I NEVER felt like an idiot, I felt I was learning.

For Morales, (I assume he is no longer here) I had 52 years in the trade 37 owning my own company and I still did grunt work up to the day I retired. I borrowed the company box truck a few weeks back and the truck and the cab and back were trashed, so I cleaned both because every job you do is important towards the final product.

AND

*Breakfasteatre - Good for you    *


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

In retrospect, I felt like an idiot because my journeyman at the time was an asshole and was always riding me.

Ultimately I learned a lot about the trade in my first year, but it wasn't a great learning environment.


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

I've always thought the first step to learning was acknowledging your ignorance. But it can be a vicious circle: as you learn more and more, the more you realize how little you know. And a bad learning environment can make it so much worse.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

First tool I was handed 40 years ago on my first day was a broom.
Last tool I handed myself yesterday was a new broom. 

Seems Ike I’m just as smart now as I was then.

In between those days I’ve been lucky to never be considered stupid and was treated with the respect due me. The Journeymen who taught me were old school and treated me as they were treated when they started out. They wanted a finished product that stood the test of time. I’m still replacing gear that me or the old journeyman installed many years ago. It has names and dates on them. It’s nice to see their names after so many years as I’m now the old timer in the shop. 

I treat everyone in the manner I was and I don’t put up with the hazing BS that happens around me, I’m to old for that. 
Now if you want to kid around and stuff, that’s ok. Just keep it safe and respectful.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Morales5712 said:


> i just got assign grunt work, at this new company i'm working for it seems like theirs not that much work left i have about a year and some change of experience and let me tell you grunt work is very demoralizing.


Maybe talk to your boss.

I'd think you do well writing technical procedures, or maybe the Company newsletter !!


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Morales5712 said:


> i just got assign grunt work, at this new company i'm working for it seems like theirs not that much work left i have about a year and some change of experience and let me tell you grunt work is very demoralizing.


Question is how many other people are in the company with less experience than you?
If you did not do the grunt work who would?
Have you perfected any skills that stand out so you can do more?
Are you always busy doing what you are told, plus finding work when you are not busy?


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Eventually you learn to look at a job as a fabricator or estimator. You can see in your head where you need every support, pull box, kicks, bends. You know how many fittings and what sizes and types just walking down a job. If you are working with others you know exactly what to do next. You know what to measure, how many inches to back step on a bend, what comes next, and where everything goes. These are all fabrication skills. You learn by repeating the same things over and over again. Then you will plan your job for the day and work the plan. Until that comes you will struggle.

So here is how you get better. It takes repeating something about 21 times to commit to memory. So if you are just doing something once and maybe redoing it, that’s twice. Now if you write it down at the end of the day (keep a journal) and maybe review what you wrote down once a week, that’s at least two more times. When you write things down it forces you to organize your thinking and it triggers other parts of your mind.

Another issue that can happen with apprentices is that when you are doing hard physical labor (strong back, weak mind tasks) your body moves blood away from your brain and put to your muscles. Your frontal lobes literally go on idle. That’s why you lose track of time working hard and it can be mentally therapeutic…the same thing you get from having a couple alcoholic drinks to relax. The downside is you aren’t really thinking any more and it can be hard to shift from “dumb laborer” to electrician which is a thinking man’s game.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

If you feel like an idiot as a first year apprentice, wait until you're a first year journeyman.

An old timer I worked with as an apprentice, would tell me, "nothing smarter than a fourth year apprentice, nothing dumber than a first year journeyman".


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## greengoat (Sep 6, 2008)

Have you considered you may be mildly ********? Just kidding carry on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Morales5712 (Oct 13, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> Question is how many other people are in the company with less experience than you?
> If you did not do the grunt work who would?
> Have you perfected any skills that stand out so you can do more?
> Are you always busy doing what you are told, plus finding work when you are not busy?


Will it’s a small shop very little experience but it’s about 8 guys and 6 of them are all related.so I know that grunt work is part of the Journey


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