# What would be your top five tips!



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Have market research done.
Have a business plan.
Have a lawyer.
Have an accountant.
Have lots of cash.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

What 480 said....also, you can't make money working for poor people :thumbsup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

don't do charity work, unless it's actually a legitimate charity, like through your church or something, then do that, definately for the tax write off. Make sure your accountant is agressive, tax wise, but don't hire no hack either. Have lots and lots of cash for the slow times; there will be slow times, especially just starting out. Make sure you have some contacts in the construction and real estate buisness, people that know you are an electrician and you are going solo. Hand out business cards like crazy, not just one but 4 and 5 at a time.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

"free" safety checks. This allows you to point out the old smoke detectors (or lack thereof), the spots that could use new receptacles or GFCI protection, upsell everything you can. It's pretty easy to sell an extra 40 dollars on every service call and put the idea in heads of everything else that you can do for them.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Tip number 2 from me would be make it a one man operation. But that's just me, I like my opinion to be the only one that matters.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

I agree, MF dragger. The 2nd man would only be used at times he is needed


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

First ask yourself why you are doing this.Second are you emotionally,physically,financially and most important spiritually ready for what you are about to do. Third is your family prepared.Fourth do you have a goal for yourself.Fifth don't take business advice from people on an internet form as most are not even in business.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

rewire said:


> Fifth don't take business advice from people on an internet form as most are not even in business.


So where the heck else is he going to ask?
I'm in business for myeslf, 480 is, MFDagger, and Nola are...I suppose you were being fascetious?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Paelectrican said:


> I agree, MF dragger. The 2nd man would only be used at times he is needed


 Yep one man all the way...don't over-hire, buy new trucks or anything like that; avoid ALL debt if at all possible and build a good cash position; last thing you need is to go under after incurring a mountain of debt.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

I have always learned you talk to people who are in the business. Some advice may work, some may not. However you listen to it all and try to decipher the good from the bad. Several here operate a business close to what im looking to do, so am willing to listen to all. Thanks for all the advice and look forward to hearing more.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> So where the heck else is he going to ask?
> I'm in business for myeslf, 480 is, MFDagger, and Nola are...I suppose you were being fascetious?


 Well this is the internet were any pasty faced 14 tear old geek with no date on friday can become the master of the universe.The jist is to always remember the advice you get from guys who hand out on an internet forum is comming from guys who hang out on an internet forum.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Paelectrican said:


> I have always learned you talk to people who are in the business. Some advice may work, some may not. However you listen to it all and try to decipher the good from the bad. Several here operate a business close to what im looking to do, so am willing to listen to all. Thanks for all the advice and look forward to hearing more.


My first thought is why are you launching your business in the midst of the worst recession in decades.50% of business fail in good times .


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

rewire said:


> My first thought is why are you launching your business in the midst of the worst recession in decades.50% of business fail in good times .


 I know what you are saying, however i am going to maintain my current employment during this time also! Which is not in the electrical form. Was just trying to get idea's of some things to consider as i am working on starting this venture.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

rewire said:


> My first thought is why are you launching your business in the midst of the worst recession in decades.50% of business fail in good times .


That should motivate you to no end. If you survive your first 5 years the rest should be smooth sailing. (have beuxcoup cash on hand for your first year though)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> So where the heck else is he going to ask?
> I'm in business for myeslf, 480 is, MFDagger, and Nola are...I suppose you were being fascetious?


Yea, but we 'don't count' because we are one-man bands.



rewire said:


> Well this is the internet were any pasty faced 14 tear old geek with no date on friday can become the master of the universe.The jist is to always remember the advice you get from guys who hand out on an internet forum is comming from guys who hang out on an internet forum.


You seem to be here a lot. Apparently you are a pasty-faced 14 year old that can't get a date on friday night either.

Oh, wait. Maybe you not 14 years old, but forty.

Never mind. Same thing.

But it seems the rest of us aren't the master of the universe.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Yea, but we 'don't count' because we are one-man bands.


Thats why im wanting to hear from you guys! I will be in the same boat


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Yea, but we 'don't count' because we are one-man bands.


If you were a God fearing Union shop you would count:jester:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> Thats why im wanting to hear from you guys! I will be in the same boat


You mean you_* want*_ to be a rat?


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't have a business yet but an important thing to do is not listen to the naysayers. I'm willing to bet anyone that has a successful business never listened to those that think they will fail or couldn't make it.

I do agree that having the second guy is a mistake this early in the game unless you have work lined up or this is a friend working for you part time.

If you do free safety checks you better be a good salesman or you are going to burn up a lot of gas driving around checking out peoples wiring that don't have any money.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Yea, but we 'don't count' because we are one-man bands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I sense some hostility :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rewire said:


> I sense some hostility :laughing:


Can't be. Rats don't have emotions.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

No emotion here.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Paelectrican said:


> I know what you are saying, however i am going to maintain my current employment during this time also! Which is not in the electrical form. Was just trying to get idea's of some things to consider as i am working on starting this venture.


 I would not recommend trying to start this as a part time business wait until you are prepared to go full time.Under capitalization is going to be your biggest hurdel make sure you have cash and a good line of credit.Most supply houses will cap your credit very low to start so make those payments quickly and your limit will go up.The first thing you will find when you go into business is people are already their.This is something you need to address in your business plan,can your area support another one man show?I started out five years ago and building was booming condos were going up all over the lake and million dollar homes were going in by the dozens.I saw that the area could easily support another electrical contractor but when I looked closely at the market I saw an area that was under developed and that was the service end.Eveyone was so focused on condos that nobody wanted to hang granmas ceiling fan.I was getting calls from people(put an add in the phone book) who just wanted a small job done so I started to build on this.My first year I did 365 one day jobs. The biggest reason we are surviving today is because we are well established in that market and all the condos and new houses have stopped.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Can't be. Rats don't have emotions.


 True


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

near android in the emotion game here


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

rewire said:


> I would not recommend trying to start this as a part time business wait until you are prepared to go full time.Under capitalization is going to be your biggest hurdel make sure you have cash and a good line of credit.Most supply houses will cap your credit very low to start so make those payments quickly and your limit will go up.The first thing you will find when you go into business is people are already their.This is something you need to address in your business plan,can your area support another one man show?I started out five years ago and building was booming condos were going up all over the lake and million dollar homes were going in by the dozens.I saw that the area could easily support another electrical contractor but when I looked closely at the market I saw an area that was under developed and that was the service end.Eveyone was so focused on condos that nobody wanted to hang granmas ceiling fan.I was getting calls from people(put an add in the phone book) who just wanted a small job done so I started to build on this.My first year I did 365 one day jobs. The biggest reason we are surviving today is because we are well established in that market and all the condos and new houses have stopped.


Thank you, very sound advice. I do plan on doing this full time as soon as i get everything in hand. Something i noticed in my area is that everyone wants the big jobs! So the normal people can not get their work done or they are paying such inflated rates that they can not afford the work.


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Paelectrican said:


> Thank you, very sound advice. I do plan on doing this full time as soon as i get everything in hand. Something i noticed in my area is that everyone wants the big jobs! So the normal people can not get their work done or they are paying such inflated rates that they can not afford the work.


 Doing small jobs means good cash flow and no matter what get as much cash up front as you can be prepared for bad checks sob stories and Ill pay you on the first.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Top five tips*

If you are going in business, one that you love...first protect yourself. 
#1 If they are a real customer...make a contract to be signed.
#2 List all work you intend to do, and get them to sign,
even friends.
#3 Do the intended work in a professional manner, no need to become friends.
#4 Prepare a professional billing, including a 3% to 6% penalty after 30 days. It has to be on the FIRST invoice.
#5 Retain a lawyer who will write a letter for $50.00 or so.
#6 Know where to originate a contractor's lien..It is very simple and really works on a non-paying customer.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> If you do free safety checks you better be a good salesman or you are going to burn up a lot of gas driving around checking out peoples wiring that don't have any money.


Sorry, I should have clarified that the free safety check was a perk for calling you for a service call. Once you get your foot in the door you might as well make the most of it. A ten minute safety check can easily lead to a lot more extras.

Also I'd like to state that I am not in business for myself. I'd like to be it's just not my time yet. Watching and learning everything I can still. My dad is an electrical contractor and has been my whole life and while I don't work for him anymore it helped greatly to understand the owner perspective.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

rewire said:


> Doing small jobs means good cash flow and no matter what get as much cash up front as you can be prepared for bad checks sob stories and Ill pay you on the first.


I intend to require at least 50% up front and the rest at completion. also think i will include this advice from another poster:


Prepare a professional billing, including a 3% to 6% penalty after 30 days. It has to be on the FIRST invoice.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

Also does anyone know where i could get a good contract template?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Yea, but we 'don't count' because we are one-man bands.


 ...and we don't have any employees.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Paelectrican said:


> Also does anyone know where i could get a good contract template?


 Google it.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> Also does anyone know where i could get a good contract template?


If I remember right Contractortalk.com usually has a lot of contract forms and various other forms and programs available.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

rewire said:


> I would not recommend trying to start this as a part time business wait until you are prepared to go full time..


 Baloney.
I had been doing side swork for years before I went solo. Charged decent prices too, so I wasn't undercutting guys like me now. That's how you get your name out, meet people, start networking...start fresh with ZERO customers and connections and that's really asking for trouble.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

One more question, if i am only a one man operation am i required to still carry workman comp? or only if i employ someone?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> I intend to require at least 50% up front and the rest at completion. also think i will include this advice from another poster:
> 
> 
> Prepare a professional billing, including a 3% to 6% penalty after 30 days. It has to be on the FIRST invoice.


Good luck with that 50% down payment policy. You would starve to death here doing that. But we have a bunch o crooks here also, but generally they go by names like - Mayor, Governor, Judge, Police.... so on and so forth


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> I intend to require at least 50% up front and the rest at completion. ..............


That may well be illegal. *This is why you need a lawyer*.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*WORKMAN'S Comp.*



Paelectrican said:


> One more question, if i am only a one man operation am i required to still carry workman comp? or only if i employ someone?


As far as I know, if you're all alone, you do not have to have workman's comp. But, you have to be optimistic, if you are as good as you think, you will need others to help. At least check into it and get figures. You will need the figures in order to bid the BIG ONE.Good luck.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

480sparky said:


> That may well be illegal. *This is why you need a lawyer*.


Most of the stuff we are advising is state by state so 480 is doubly right.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> As far as I know, if you're all alone, you do not have to have workman's comp. But, you have to be optimistic, if you are as good as you think, you will need others to help. At least check into it and get figures. You will need the figures in order to bid the BIG ONE.Good luck.


You may not be required by your state to have it, but some of your customers may require it. So be prepared to pay for it someday.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Worker's comp.*



480sparky said:


> You may not be required by your state to have it, but some of your customers may require it. So be prepared to pay for it someday.


That is true and it reminds me of a time that I had to send a contractor away...I just forgot.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> As far as I know, if you're all alone, you do not have to have workman's comp. But, you have to be optimistic, if you are as good as you think, you will need others to help. At least check into it and get figures. You will need the figures in order to bid the BIG ONE.Good luck.


 
Most descent GC's are gonna require WC


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*You are right.*



mcclary's electrical said:


> Most descent GC's are gonna require WC


You are right. Most of the bigger jobs required a Certificate of INSURANCE. Most insurance companies will send them right out for phone call if they have you on file. Insurance is cheap when you consider the alternative.


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## Paelectrican (Mar 2, 2009)

Cool i will just go ahead and get it anyway. I already picked up liability insurance, just wasn't sure as far as workmen's comp


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> Cool i will just go ahead and get it anyway. I already picked up liability insurance, just wasn't sure as far as workmen's comp


I just to a complete package with one agent.... gen. liability, vehicle, WC, all that stuff. You'll get a 'package' deal usually, and if you need to change something (say, up from $1mil to $2mil in order to bid a job), you only need to remember one phone number.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Workman's comp*



480sparky said:


> I just to a complete package with one agent.... gen. liability, vehicle, WC, all that stuff. You'll get a 'package' deal usually, and if you need to change something (say, up from $1mil to $2mil in order to bid a job), you only need to remember one phone number.


 Wow, when I was doing the outside work I only had to carry $500,000.00. Man, It was a good thing that I was GOOD. LLO...or something like that.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Wow, when I was doing the outside work I only had to carry $500,000.00. Man, It was a good thing that I was GOOD. LLO...or something like that.


Insurance companies don't give one hoot about how good you are. They only know that you need their products and services and will charge you for it.

You may only be required by your local laws to carry $½mil, but wait until you're asked to bid on something big, like a hospital or mall.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Insurance companies don't give one hoot about how good you are. They only know that you need their products and services and will charge you for it.
> 
> You may only be required by your local laws to carry $½mil, but wait until you're asked to bid on something big, like a hospital or mall.


 ...even expensive neighborhoods, in the case of residential work....$1million minimum...you'll have medical, household goods, property replacement...:no:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Worker's comp.*



480sparky said:


> Insurance companies don't give one hoot about how good you are. They only know that you need their products and services and will charge you for it.
> 
> You may only be required by your local laws to carry $½mil, but wait until you're asked to bid on something big, like a hospital or mall.


 I know times have changed...How much insurance do you carry?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> ...even expensive neighborhoods, in the case of residential work....$1million minimum...you'll have medical, household goods, property replacement...:no:


Medical for who?

Why do I need to carry insurance on someone else's household goods? Can't they get their own?

And what property will I need to replace? Their house? That's what GL coverage is for.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I know times have changed...How much insurance do you carry?


$2mil.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Medical for who?
> 
> Why do I need to carry insurance on someone else's household goods? Can't they get their own?
> 
> And what property will I need to replace? Their house? That's what GL coverage is for.


 the house burns down, people get burned and they get medical bills.
I would think household goos would need to be covered to prevent them from suing my compnay and, if that don't work, me personally.
...and yeah the house will need to be rebuilt, so yeah GL will get that, just saying possibilities. You know how sue happy this country is, f'n trial lawyers.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> $2mil.


 same here.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Insurance*



480sparky said:


> $2mil.


It is good that you are protected...it is also good to let the new people on this forum understand the importance of insurance., This may be a NEW topic, but I will let others decide.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> the house burns down, people get burned and they get medical bills.
> I would think household goos would need to be covered to prevent them from suing my compnay and, if that don't work, me personally.
> ...and yeah the house will need to be rebuilt, so yeah GL will get that, just saying possibilities. You know how sue happy this country is, f'n trial lawyers.


Are you serious? You think we as electricians need to cover everyone elses stuff and lives? 

C'mon... how many buildings are out there that _don't_ have electricity? You mean to tell me Sparky is responsible for all that are wired up? 

So exacltly how much do I need to cover my arse when it comes to what people put in their houses?

Suppose I wire a $1 million house, and the owner is an art collector and puts $50 million worth of Monets, Rembrandts and Botticellis on the walls?

Or they like jewelry, and have $20 million in bling?

What if I wired up Jay Leno's garage?

I can't be liable for what people put in their houses. Including the people in them. They need to take responsibility for themselves, their loved ones and their belongings. If they want to protect their stuff, then it's on their dime.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*workman's comp./liability*



480sparky said:


> Are you serious? You think we as electricians need to cover everyone elses stuff and lives?
> 
> C'mon... how many buildings are out there that _don't_ have electricity? You mean to tell me Sparky is responsible for all that are wired up?
> 
> ...


It is a shame, but the only protection that you have is YOUR own good work and a good insurance plan. I've seen walls burned to a crisp...including ROMEX, and they say "See that burnt wire" it cause it".


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Are you serious? You think we as electricians need to cover everyone elses stuff and lives?
> 
> C'mon... how many buildings are out there that _don't_ have electricity? You mean to tell me Sparky is responsible for all that are wired up?
> 
> ...


 True, but I'm not sure Jay Leno or an art collector is going to call me. You sadi it best, talk to your lawyer/accountant and insurance guy...I tend to agree with you but everybody is sue happy these days. I speak mostly of service work, of course.."he who smelt it, dealt it", right? I touched it last, it must be my fault.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> True, but I'm not sure Jay Leno or an art collector is going to call me. You sadi it best, talk to your lawyer/accountant and insurance guy...I tend to agree with you but everybody is sue happy these days. I speak mostly of service work, of course.."he who smelt it, dealt it", right? I touched it last, it must be my fault.


Yeah, but if you only have $2mil of coverage, what else they gonna do? Sue me personally for the other $98mil? I doubt it. Lawyers have a tendency to know where the deep pockets are, and that's all they're willing to reach in to.

Once they burn through my $2mil, they'll likely start in with the GC, then see if they can chase the tinner, the plumber, the roofer, the landscaper, the paperboy.... whoever they think they can get money out of.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

then there is the matter of proving I was at fault...I imagine that would be pretty darn hard to pin on me, or any other decent sparky. What's left after a freaking fire? Hopefully that $2mill policy also covers the months of lawyer fees!


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> About to look at starting my own two man operation shortly near Pittsburgh,Pa. I am wondering what would be your top five tips for someone in my position?


Wait for some huge job to start in your area, then all the tradesmen will be busy, employed, and making money. That will open a lot of doors for someone looking to break into a smaller work market.

And when you do set out, try not to do installs the same way I saw all over on my last visit to Pittsburgh. Looks matter. Electrical work sometimes isn't pretty, but up there it seems you guys go out of your way to make it uglier!


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Paelectrican said:


> One more question, if i am only a one man operation am i required to still carry workman comp? or only if i employ someone?


I don't know about PA's laws but in WA you have the option to carry workmans comp if you have no employees. It costs $1.18/hr. Well worth it in my opinion should something happen to you unless your health insurance will cover you on the job. That I don't know about.

Getting 50% up front is going to be difficult. Perhaps some type of milestone billing structure on larger projects with unknown general contractors might work. At points in the project you get paid for completion of that phase. I really don't know if projects are done like that. On smaller jobs 1-5 days I doubt you will have much luck getting money up front but maybe it works for someones business model.

I think the other posters safety check idea just meant upselling your services while on site. Good idea to keep in mind, pointing out electrical deficiencies while at their residence or business.

I'm following this thread as I'm wanting to get a small business going myself. Lot of good ideas in this thread.


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## ralph (Apr 6, 2008)

Paelectrican said:


> One more question, if i am only a one man operation am i required to still carry workman comp? or only if i employ someone?


 Im sure you will need it to working for any builders ( real ones, notfly by nights). 
If youve found a nich just doing service work in a residential app, you could probably go without.
Keep your overhead low, and dont work for cheap. Keep your customers happy whenever you can. Word of mouth is huge.
Good luck


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Get a workmans comp policy you may need it for yourself if injured also liability one million with three million agregate will cover 90% of the GCs.Getting workmans comp now will help you lower your modifier which will give you a lower cost when you hire employees down the road. Shop around for insurance to get the best price.


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## thekoolcody (Aug 30, 2008)

If it was me, I would be a one man operation, form a LLC or some sort of Limited liability.

1) Lawyers
2)Guns
3) Money

...or The Sh&^ will hit the fan.


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## RMatthis (Nov 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You mean you_* want*_ to be a rat?


See, now you didn't need to go there! Unions have their Pros and _CONs
_You know what they are... I won't sit here and rant.


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## Mastertorturer (Jan 28, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Can't be. Rats don't have emotions.


That's why big tough Union guys are afraid of them.


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## TolmanElectric (Jan 27, 2009)

Paelectrican said:


> One more question, if i am only a one man operation am i required to still carry workman comp? or only if i employ someone?


I do not know what your laws are in your state but in Tennessee It is required to at least have Worker Compensation to cover 1 if Any Employees. Laws Constantly change here so it is better answered from someone in your state or from Department of Commerce and Insurance. They could answer that question. But on the upside it looks great on your business to be covered.. Its peace of mind for the homeowners you do work for. Some contractors in my area will not even provide work for you without having W/C and General Liability. Sucks for the Single man crew guys to make it. But on the upside if you have a Friend or family member help you and they get hurt.. You are covered. Contact a lawyer and incorporate if you decide to have employees in the future.


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## McCaa (Sep 3, 2009)

It's kind of hard to give advice, not knowing what type of electrical company your are going to be so for sake of illustration, I'm going to say your going to be a small, two man show, 75% Residential construction and service with 20% commercial construction and 5% misc.

1) Employee Leasing - I never directly employ anyone. I'm in California and workman's comp rates alone here are $28 for every $100 paid to an employee. I never work cheap help. i always work qualified people. Qualified people cost money, benefits, vacation, etc. So I lease my employees from an employee leasing company I have a relationship with which allows me to hire qualified people, pay them what their worth and write one check with no filings to the government. (Google employee leasing to see if its available where you are at and see how it works) This also allows me to assume zero liability for employees.

2) CASH!!! - Have lots of it. Both times I have started my companies, I have had large cash reserves. I have always had 1 years cash on hand for my personal pay, 1 years cash on hand for overhead cost, 6 months cash on hand for employee cost. 1 years reserves seems like alot but the economy sucks and time will fly by.

3) An amazing accountant - I utilize a very capable accountant that has online 24 hour access to Quickbooks files. I installed a laptop with wireless internet access in my van and went completely paperless. That way, everything is documented and he has copies of everything.

4) Tools - Invest in the right tools and equipment. Every van / truck I purchase cost me alot of money between the tool cost and vehicle cost. It may seem like alot until you loose your butt on one job because you didn't have the right tools. 

5) Lawyer - Have him look over everything! He will be your best friend and keep your butt safe. let him tell you how much insurance you should have as he will be the best one to know when it comes to saving your but if there is a mistake made.

6) Personal Banker - This guy will save your life too. I always bank at a local business bank were decisions are made right there locally.

I'm in California where everyone (including the state) is out to put you out of business.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> About to look at starting my own two man operation shortly near Pittsburgh,Pa. I am wondering what would be your top five tips for someone in my position?


 #1 stay north of the Allegheny River
#2 stay out of Allegheny County
#3 Register with the Atty.General
#4 Don"t even think of coming into Washington County
#5 Good Luck!


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## normel (Oct 3, 2007)

All good advice so far, but one important question... Are you licensed??


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

normel said:


> All good advice so far, but one important question... Are you licensed??


 
Does he need to be?

In most places, you can hire a license.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Paelectrican said:


> One more question, if i am only a one man operation am i required to still carry workman comp? or only if i employ someone?


I carry Comp. only because some places won't let me work for them without it.

Comp does not cover me, so it is $1000.00 in the cost of doing business


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## robertwilber (Jan 22, 2007)

user5941 said:


> My first thought is why are you launching your business in the midst of the worst recession in decades.50% of business fail in good times .


 80% fail within 1 year


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## robertwilber (Jan 22, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> I intend to require at least 50% up front and the rest at completion. also think i will include this advice from another poster:
> 
> 
> Prepare a professional billing, including a 3% to 6% penalty after 30 days. It has to be on the FIRST invoice.


Remember [in PA] to register with the state attorney general's offic [PAHIC] [because of this, I think 50% is now illegal...no kidding]

There is a link for the PA home improvement act or whatever it is called on my website. Send me a note and I will try to find the contact info for you.
It is only $52.00 for 2 years, but sets requirements for anyone performing home improvements in PA [that will be you..]


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## robertwilber (Jan 22, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> Thank you, very sound advice. I do plan on doing this full time as soon as i get everything in hand. Something i noticed in my area is that everyone wants the big jobs! So the normal people can not get their work done or they are paying such inflated rates that they can not afford the work.


Trust me, you won't think it is an inflated rate when you are carrying the freight....


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## robertwilber (Jan 22, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> One more question, if i am only a one man operation am i required to still carry workman comp? or only if i employ someone?


No. Worker's comp is to protect your employees.


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

I read some good tips, and want to add one. Be sure to do your prelien on any sizeable job. You cannot lien a project when you don't get paid in a timely manner if you did not do your prelien. If you are doing residential, be sure you know all the laws and forms you must get filled out before you do any work or you may not get paid. In Calif. that is a substantial mess of paper work, but stay legal.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Have market research done.
> Have a business plan.
> Have a lawyer.
> Have an accountant.
> Have lots of cash.


He heh...I must have done something wrong.

No market research.
No a business plan.
No a lawyer.
No accountant.
No cash. 

I went with the "Keep a low overhead, bid high and work dawn till dusk 7 days a week" method.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

220/221 said:


> He heh...I must have done something wrong.
> 
> No market research.
> No a business plan.
> ...


That was my plan as well. Except for the work till dusk thing. :jester:


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## robertwilber (Jan 22, 2007)

*link to AG office in PA*

Home Improvement registration link:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/hic.aspx


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## serviceexcel (Dec 24, 2009)

Build a nice website and try to penetrate the online market. More and more people are searching for electrician services online

http://www.mrelectricofcc.comhttp://www.mrelectricofcc.com


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Ditto*



220/221 said:


> He heh...I must have done something wrong.
> 
> No market research.
> No a business plan.
> ...



That's almost identical to myself, in addition:

Don't work for cheap people (I give them a Scale of A-F)
I do them in that priority
Get minimum coverage
Workman Comp forget it unless needed
Do excellent work and service and you'll live off referrals (I currently do)
Phonebook ads work in the beginning
Magnetic Stickers
Constantly Study
Knock on Doors if needed (Lighting Retrofits etc...never hurts to ask and drop card off. All they can say is no)


That's about it


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## Electrust (Dec 20, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> If you are going in business, one that you love...first protect yourself.
> #6 Know where to originate a contractor's lien..It is very simple and really works on a non-paying customer.


ya this is my problem right now. I can't get my money back for many projects...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Paelectrican said:


> About to look at starting my own two man operation shortly near Pittsburgh,Pa. I am wondering what would be your top five tips for someone in my position?


Dont work for GCs
Put your proposals in writing
Dont work cheap
Dont be afraid to ask for your money
Get a new truck and not a piece of crap


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

Mentioned above. Make this a ONE man opperation. If you need help find a reliable self employed helper.

Partnerships are not ships that sail too well

Frank


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Paelectrican said:


> About to look at starting my own two man operation shortly near Pittsburgh,Pa. I am wondering what would be your top five tips for someone in my position?


Do you have contacts that you can visit AFTER YOU LEAVE YOUR PRESENT JOB?

Do you have tools and a vehicle that you can utilize when you go into business?

Have you determined your market niche?

Do not burn any bridges!

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS pay the tax man first, supply houses second, employees third then if there is any left pay yourself. If there is nothing left you are not in business you have an expensive hobby.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

frank said:


> Mentioned above. Make this a ONE man opperation. If you need help find a reliable self employed helper.
> 
> Partnerships are not ships that sail too well
> 
> Frank


24 years with 2 partners, myself and one of the partners BEND A LOT, otherwise this would have ended 25 years ago.



> work dawn till dusk 7 days a week" method


I did this until I had a heart attack 3 years ago and just recently cut back a bit more. Damn I feel like I have become lazy and not carrying my weight.


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

Having a partner will probably cause you to wish you had never gone into business. No two people put in the same effort, and each values his input as worth more. When it isn't working, and you decide to buy out your partner, guess what. He thinks he should get half of your highest volumn year even if you have shown no profit in those years. Volumn doesn't necessarily mean your are making any money. If you have a partnership, you don't get paid until everybody else is paid and you can show a profit. If you do an S Corp. you can pay yourselves a salary, but if there is not enough money to pay everybody and your salaries, you got real problems again. Sole owner is the best way. You need a lawyer or a class on doing a corporation or you get in trouble with the feds. A lot of paperwork, documented meetings, minutes, just to satisfy the laws. Sorry, I just went through it. If you keep it simple (sole owner) and it doesn't work, it's a lot easier to quit and go back to work for someone else or try something else.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

Partnerships almost always go bad. Especially with a friend or relative. So, don't do it. It's like a rock band. 1st year all good, 2nd year things start coming out, 3rd year all out war. If you do, then draw it up and make it crystal clear in writing of expectations and such, make it in HUGE font and put it on wall in office. If I fight starts to break out then go to the wall and see what it said and you agreed upon. Can't get any clearer than that.


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