# Need Help with GFCI Tripping Problem



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

I have an outside GFCI that keeps tripping. Let me try to describe how the circuit(s) are wired.
First there is a home run to the GFCI, then on the load side it runs to a switch box beside the front door for an outside porch light.
The black load side feed connects to a re-identified white of the switch leg, then the black of the switch leg connects to the black of the light.
The load side neutral connects to the light neutral in the switch box.

Also, in the same switch box there is a switch leg for the living room ceiling fan and light.
The switch leg goes to the ceiling box for the fan/light.
In this ceiling box, there is a home run for the fan/light, then there is a feed from there to the kitchen lights.
The black from the H.R. ties to the re-identified white of the sw leg from the box beside the front door and to the black feed to kitchen.
Black from sw leg to fan/light. neutral from H.R. ties to fan/light neutral and neutral for kitchen feed.

Here's what's happening. The GFCI holds and the light works until you turn the circuit on for the fan/light & kitchen.
I don't understand this since the GFCI and porch light are on a separate circuit from the L.R. light/fan & kitchen circuit.
I took the GFCI out and the switches beside the door. I did find a couple of nicked wires and thought that was the problem,
but it wasn't. I didn't have time to take the ceiling fan down to check that box yet, but will Monday.

Can anyone help me understand why this scenerio is tripping the GFCI? Maybe when I'm rested a little I can think about this more,
but right now, I'm stumped.

Also, I'm powering this from a portable generator.

P.S. This is the same house that I've been trying to straighten out someone else's mess!


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Possibly someone got some neutrals from different circuits mixed up in one of those boxes.

If the GFCI trips every time under the same circumstances, it should be easy enough to trace out. Just divide & conquer the circuit and isolate the problem that way. You'll find it.

Why is all the inside crap being fed from the GFCI anyway? :001_huh:


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Possibly someone got some neutrals from different circuits mixed up in one of those boxes.
> 
> If the GFCI trips every time under the same circumstances, it should be easy enough to trace out. Just divide & conquer the circuit and isolate the problem that way. You'll find it.
> 
> Why is all the inside crap being fed from the GFCI anyway? :001_huh:


There is nothing inside being fed from the GFCI, except the switch to the porch light. It is a home run to the GFCI, then load side to switch and light. The ceiling box in the living room contains the switch leg from the same switch box as the porch light. That's all they have in common. No neutrals from anywhere else are tied to neutral that go to the GFCI and porch light.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Little-Lectric said:


> There is nothing inside being fed from the GFCI, except the switch to the porch light. It is a home run to the GFCI, then load side to switch and light. The ceiling box in the living room contains the switch leg from the same switch box as the porch light. That's all they have in common. No neutrals from anywhere else are tied to neutral that go to the GFCI and porch light.


Well there aren't many ways for a GFCI on a different circuit to trip except a crossed neutral somewhere. I'd double check the switch box.

But like I said, if it trips consistently under the same circumstances, you should be able to trace it out and find it.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Well there aren't many ways for a GFCI on a different circuit to trip except a crossed neutral somewhere. I'd double check the switch box.
> 
> But like I said, if it trips consistently under the same circumstances, you should be able to trace it out and find it.


It was late and I was getting tired so I have to go back Monday, hopefully clear headed and start my search again. As far as the switch box, there is only 3 cables entering. One from the load side of GFCI, one from the light, and the switch leg for the fan/light. Only 2 of the whites are neutrals, the light and from the GFCI. The other white is the switch leg for the fan/light.

Edit: Would the fact that I'm powering this from a generator have any thing to do with the GFCI tripping? The generator says "floating neutral" on it, but I didn't check to see.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Little-Lectric said:


> It was late and I was getting tired so I have to go back Monday, hopefully clear headed and start my search again. As far as the switch box, there is only 3 cables entering. One from the load side of GFCI, one from the light, and the switch leg for the fan/light. Only 2 of the whites are neutrals, the light and from the GFCI. The other white is the switch leg for the fan/light.
> 
> .


I edited my last post with this question:

Would the fact that I'm powering this from a generator have any thing to do with the GFCI tripping? The generator says "floating neutral" on it, but I didn't check to see.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Little-Lectric said:


> I edited my last post with this question:
> 
> Would the fact that I'm powering this from a generator have any thing to do with the GFCI tripping? The generator says "floating neutral" on it, but I didn't check to see.


I don't know. I suspect that "floating neutral" means it's not bonded to the generator frame or anything. Is the generator receptacle itself a GFCI of some sort?

I don't really know how the generator could affect the function of the GFCI in the building, maybe one of the generator gurus can pipe up


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

L-L., What brand name the generatour you have there? 

I know if you have Honda unit you will denfiently have to pay attetion to the connection due Honda unit they have N-G bonded at the generatour housing.

Other brands the answer will vaires a bit some will have both netural and ground bonded and some don't.

Merci,
Marc


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

It would make it a lot easier, for me, if you could draw a picture and scan it.
I'll try to sort out the verbiage while I wait for an answer to my question.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Have you replaced the GFCI?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

frenchelectrican said:


> L-L., What brand name the generatour you have there?
> 
> 
> I know if you have Honda unit you will denfiently have to pay attetion to the connection due Honda unit they have N-G bonded at the generatour housing.
> ...



It is a Coleman and it says on the genny "floating neutral", although I didn't check to see for sure.



nitro71 said:


> Have you replaced the GFCI?


No, it was late and I was tired and irritated, so I quit until Monday.

I think (after sleeping on it) I might know what the problem is. I won't know for sure until tomorrow, but I think the EGC from the GFCI and the one from the switch leg to the living room fan/light are tied together in the 2-gang box that houses both switches. Since the panel is the main (service), the EGCs and neutrals are bonded.
I believe the GFCI is sensing an imbalance from the other circuit when both are on at the same time. This coming through the bonded grounds/neutrals.
This sound like what my problem might be?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Little-Lectric said:


> I believe the GFCI is sensing an imbalance from the other circuit when both are on at the same time. This coming through the bonded grounds/neutrals.
> This sound like what my problem might be?


If that were true then every GFCI everywhere would trip every time. Those EGCs should be tied together anyway, and they shouldn't be carrying any current at all under normal operating conditions.

If one of those EGCs is touching a hot or neutral terminal or wire in one of the boxes, that could do it though.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

Are the neutrals tried together in your switch box if try separating them if there is two separate circuits.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I installed a brand new Levicrap a while back that was defective out of the box. Tripped whenever you turned on a light. Replaced it and viola.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Theriot said:


> Are the neutrals tried together in your switch box if try separating them if there is two separate circuits.


There is only one neutral in the switch box and it just goes to the porch light neutral.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> I installed a brand new Levicrap a while back that was defective out of the box. Tripped whenever you turned on a light. Replaced it and viola.


That's one of the things I was going to try Monday. I also thought about just feeding the light from the line side of the GFCI like it should have been to start with. But if there is a problem somewhere else that is causing the GFCI to trip, I don't want to leave it un-repaired.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I feel sorry for the owner of this home.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I feel sorry for the owner of this home.


I don't think you would since he's the reason everything is screwed up. He had it roughed by who I thought was an electrician. Turns out it was just some guy he hired for cheap and that's what he got. None of the home runs were labeled, none of the boxes made up, wires jumping from one room to the other. Some running under the house that no one other than the guy that did it. It was a complete mess, I have everything straightened up except this problem and I think I know what is wrong and will know for sure tomorrow.
If I had done the rough or at least knew who did and their wiring methods, I wouldn't be having these problems.
I have also found 3 buried boxes.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Little-Lectric said:


> It is a Coleman and it says on the genny "floating neutral", although I didn't check to see for sure.


Almost half of the Coleman generators I have ran into are floating and other half are not floating at all.

I have one of portable diesel generator ( it was repowerd from gaz to diesel ) with coleman generator and I keep the netural and ground seperated due it was killing the RCD ( GFCI ) pretty often after that I fixed it did slove it.

So if you want to make sure just take your DVM and read the netural et ground at the receptale first then from netural receptale to ground frame you should not see any change of reading if so then you have bonded system ( quick way is look at the main juncion box behind the recptaltes due most coleman units have quick connection harness ) 

Merci,
Marc


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