# Can't find this in code



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mjjg92 said:


> Looked in code but can't find an answer to this.
> Can I use a steel old work box to put a duplex receptacle in the tile of a suspended (drop) ceiling ?
> Seems like the tile would not be that strong , but its not like the receptacle would been in constant use. Just have to plug in a display cabinet with lighting


You could, I would call it crappy.:jester:

Use a Caddy 512HD bar, with a 4" square and a single gang plaster ring of the right depth for the type of ceiling tile you are working with.


----------



## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Cut a piece of plywood the same size as the tile and use it for backing. Clip the whole thing down to the grid.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

I would call it crap to just attempt to support it from the tile w/madison bars....the most economical way is as BBQ stated with a Caddy 512HD.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

SteveBayshore said:


> Cut a piece of plywood the same size as the tile and use it for backing. Clip the whole thing down to the grid.


In most cases that would not be allowed, unless it is fire rated


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I don't see how attaching to a tile is compliant. It must be rigidly attached to the building-- I don't see tile as fitting the bill.


----------



## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

mjjg92 said:


> Looked in code but can't find an answer to this.
> Can I use a steel old work box to put a duplex receptacle in the tile of a suspended (drop) ceiling ?
> Seems like the tile would not be that strong , but its not like the receptacle would been in constant use. Just have to plug in a display cabinet with lighting


No



:no:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't see how attaching to a tile is compliant. It must be rigidly attached to the building-- I don't see tile as fitting the bill.


Can you post the code section that says that?


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't see how attaching to a tile is compliant. It must be rigidly attached to the building-- I don't see tile as fitting the bill.





BBQ said:


> Can you post the code section that says that?


I think the NEC is muted on that part but IBC ( International Building Code ) will say something on that part plus if your state do have addtional codes related to the supened ceilings. ( I know it was mention couple spots )

I know in France we can not just throw a sheet of plywood to sit on the top of the ceiling tiles unless it is supported indepently from ceiling grids.

We have simair to the Caddy 512HD bar which it is legit as well plus addtional " string " to the building structre.

Merci,
Marc


----------



## aktrapper (May 28, 2013)

Doesnt fly in my book. We r paid professional wages to perform professional work...not just throw it in...and get out. 
If the op s situation was allowed then i could just use the ears of the device and the cover plate to hold the electrical box onto the sheetrock in a vertical wall installation. far from professional. The nec calls it neat and workmanlike.


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

mjjg92 said:


> Looked in code but can't find an answer to this.
> Can I use a steel old work box to put a duplex receptacle in the tile of a suspended (drop) ceiling ?
> Seems like the tile would not be that strong , but its not like the receptacle would been in constant use. Just have to plug in a display cabinet with lighting


Read Article 314.23(A)


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

lighterup said:


> Read Article 314.23(A)


314.23(A) applies to surface mounted boxes only.



> *314.23 Supports.* Enclosures within the scope of this article
> shall be supported in accordance with one or more of
> the provisions in 314.23(A) through (H).
> 
> ...


The question was about a flush mounted box in a suspended ceiling.




> *314.23 Supports.* Enclosures within the scope of this article
> shall be supported in accordance with one or more of
> the provisions in 314.23(A) through (H).
> 
> ...


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

BBQ said:


> 314.23(A) applies to surface mounted boxes only.
> 
> 
> 
> The question was about a flush mounted box in a suspended ceiling.


Article 314 covers installing "boxes". 314.23 ..."enclosures within the scope of this article (all of 314) shall be supported with one or more of the provisions
in 314.23(A thruH)..what's wrong withthis reference BBQ?


----------



## theloop82 (Aug 18, 2011)

NEC 110.12. Mechanical Execution of Work. "Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and *workmanlike* manner."

Ceiling tile and battleships isn't anyone's idea of workmanlike. First maintenance monkey that unplugs something from there is gonna end up with a dangling box and a broken ceiling tile. You in that big a hurry? 3$ worth of caddy hardware too much money?

The hackitude of even asking the question suggests you may be better suited throwing on an orange apron and giving bad wiring advice to homeowners.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> In most cases that would not be allowed, unless it is fire rated


can explain your stance on this Dennis. The wood cutout would be above the ceiling fire rated tile and the box would be cut to fit, how does that effect the fire rating?

When the brackets are used, once the appliance gets plug in and out a couple of times, the brackets take a beating from the hard pushing and pulling of cord end to plug and unplug from a commercial or hospital grade receptacle


----------



## TQuade (Jan 22, 2010)

Check 314.23 (C),(D),and(D)2


----------



## TQuade (Jan 22, 2010)

Also they make an outlet box now for old work that you use like a 3in hole saw to cut your surface and it has a wide metal band on its back just like the newer style cut in plastic 8bs they have more material that grabs the wall or tile I feel it would be stronger than using Madison straps or screw wings


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

does the caddy brace ntake the place of 'suported by wires?


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

360max said:


> can explain your stance on this Dennis. The wood cutout would be above the ceiling fire rated tile and the box would be cut to fit, how does that effect the fire rating?
> 
> When the brackets are used, once the appliance gets plug in and out a couple of times, the brackets take a beating from the hard pushing and pulling of cord end to plug and unplug from a commercial or hospital grade receptacle


 OP made it sound like it will not be 'in and out" abuse, just plug in a light one time? maybe out and in for maint. some day?


----------



## TQuade (Jan 22, 2010)

The brace clips onto the grid and has a clip than is screwed with a 1/4-20 through the center ko on a 1900 box


----------



## TQuade (Jan 22, 2010)

After its clipped to the grid the box will be pretty stiff and shouldn't deflect much when pressure is put in the receptacle heck if you wanted to get real rigid they make a heavy duty caddy bar that has wide grid clips that's ment for holding like 35lbs from the bar and it has provisions for ceiling grid support wires


----------



## TQuade (Jan 22, 2010)

http://www.erico.com/products/CADDYcfcTGrid.asp

Says 50lbs I've used those bars once and once their in their in they have a powerful clip


----------

