# Questions on CA Apprenticeship Process for Veterans - Inside Wireman



## H60 (Feb 23, 2014)

Good Morning,

I'm new to both this forum and the concept of electrician apprenticeships. I wish I had discovered this opportunity out of high school.

A summary of my background:
Highschool - worked on a ranch cutting roads and clearing trees in E TX

After HS - Enlisted in the Army National Guard as a 15H (Aircraft Pneudraulic Repairer) as an E-1
While waiting for Basic worked as a Contract Team Lead installing Radiant Barrier in attics throughout the Southern states

After Basic - Worked odd jobs in sales, food service, etc. 

Deployment - Iraq 2010-11

After Deployment - Accepted into Warrant Officer Flight Training Program and attended Flight School for UH-60 Blackhawks

After Flight school/Current - Back in school completing my degree with GI Bill, currently over halfway through BS, expected graduation in 18mo. Taking flight training for FAA fixed wing certificates.

---I'm happily married with a son on the way in under two months. I'm familiar with both hard manual labor and detailed technical work and study. I've graduated every military school I've attended with honors. I haven't worked since returning from flight school other than flying with the guard, which is more often than the typical once a month but still not enough. I keep my schedule as busy as possible with studying and training, but I need to work.

My school is half online and half in class, I attend one long class a week, at night.


I'm very excited about the prospect of getting an apprenticeship, I only wish I had discovered the process long ago. I want to start as soon as possible.

So here are my questions:

Unions - in my area (San Diego) it appears that there are several unions, IBEW, ABC & JATC. Are there any others? What are the differences between them, it seems many prefer IBEW over ABC - why? I'm not sure I understand JATC, it seems to be affiliated with IBEW, is it a union in and of itself, if not what is it?

The Apprenticeship Process - From the reading I've done I'm more interested in Commercial - Inside Wireman work. However, at the end of the day, I want to work and soon. Does anyone have any input on the amount of work available in the San Diego area (residential vs commercial)?

Classes - It looks like these are paid for but I haven't seen anything explicitly stating this, if not how much will they cost me? Can I apply courses I've completed in the past towards the apprenticeship classes (math, military courses, CPR certifications, etc.)?

Is an apprenticeship a contract similar to the military where I sign a commitment of "x" years to the union? If so, how would this contract work if I get deployed or called in by the National Guard?

Time - How soon can I possibly start working? I've seen the schedules on union websites for application deadlines, testing and interview dates followed by semester start dates, for example IBEW has a 4 mo. timeline from application to semester start. So what does semester start mean to me? Is that the date I start working or start attending classes? If I'm accepted can I start working with the union prior to my semester start date? If not could I realistically knock on doors and connect with a Journeyman on my own to start working for before my semester start date? 
Basically I want to start working ASAP, how can I do that? I know that programs like Helmets to Hardhats can help accelerate the process but I don't know by how much.

Pay - In the San Diego area for an inside wireman apprenticeship, I've seen starting pay from $11-$15/hr. What can I realistically expect as take home?

My chances - Based on the information I've provided how likely is it that I'll be accepted?



Thank you very much in advance. I'm excited about this program and look forward to your responses.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Join the ABC. (Associated builders and contractors). The top guys can make 6 figures in 4-5 years.


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

Not sure of the name of the program, but the IBEW has a program for returning veterans. Check into it at the local closest to you.

The top guys at ABC shops, likely foremen and up, while they may be able to command a six figure salary after only 4-5 years, will not have a healthcare or retirement program even approaching what an average IBEW journeyman has.

The average sparky at an ABC shop will not be making half that, and few if any benefits.

On the other hand, my son, 26, just turned out, and a reluctant foreman at a small IBEW shop, is earning about 135 K , plus a company Truck and gas card, and benefits among the best in the country.

At least investigate the IBEW, they have your interests at heart, while ABC has their contractors interests at heart. Truth.


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## H60 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thank you that's very helpful.

For benefits I already have pretty good healthcare and dental for my family through the military. 

Would IBEW still be worth looking into? Or does the pay of ABC outweigh IBEW if health and dental coverage aren't a factor?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

H60 said:


> Thank you that's very helpful. For benefits I already have pretty good healthcare and dental for my family through the military. Would IBEW still be worth looking into? Or does the pay of ABC outweigh IBEW if health and dental coverage aren't a factor?


If your an above average worker and can save for your own retirement go abc. If you think your one of the guys and that's more important then getting the job done and making the bosses money then go union.


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## H60 (Feb 23, 2014)

Bkessler said:


> If your an above average worker and can save for your own retirement go abc. If you think your one of the guys and that's more important then getting the job done and making the bosses money then go union.


I'm not sure I'm following your post?

I am an above average worker and can save for my own retirement, but why does being an above average worker mean I should go to ABC?

What do you mean by your statement about the union?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Check out http://www.helmetstohardhats.org/ which is union program for vets.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

H60 said:


> I'm not sure I'm following your post? I am an above average worker and can save for my own retirement, but why does being an above average worker mean I should go to ABC? What do you mean by your statement about the union?


I get about 10 abc apprentices a year , most are overpaid idiots. We keep about one a year after they graduate. The rest will have a hard time finding good work after they leave the abc. If you go union at least you'll always have a place in line.


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## H60 (Feb 23, 2014)

eejack said:


> Check out http://www.helmetstohardhats.org/ which is union program for vets.


I have, thank you.



Bkessler said:


> I get about 10 abc apprentices a year , most are overpaid idiots. We keep about one a year after they graduate. The rest will have a hard time finding good work after they leave the abc. If you go union at least you'll always have a place in line.


OK, thanks for clarifying. I'm confident that I would not fall into the overpaid idiot category. Based on that it sounds like your recommendation is ABC. I keep seeing (other than on this thread) people referencing ABC as paying more than IBEW. However, I can't find anything that actually says what either of them pay their apprentices. The two documents I posted links to say they are for information purposes only and not necessarily what the pay will be and they match. Anyone know what pay I can expect?

IBEW Pay Scale

ABC Pay Scale


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

I suggest that you ask ABC electricians, both apprentices and journeymen, their impressions of working for ABC contractors, in the General Forum. 

Undoubtedly, there will be a few who have worked for both ABC and IBEW contractors. There have been a few here in the past that had done time as apprentices in both programs. They will have good insight. 

I can only say, that if I could not work in my trade as an IBEW electrician, I would not want to be doing it as an employee, period.


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## H60 (Feb 23, 2014)

ibuzzard said:


> I suggest that you ask ABC electricians, both apprentices and journeymen, their impressions of working for ABC contractors, in the General Forum.
> 
> I can only say, that if I could not work in my trade as an IBEW electrician, I would not want to be doing it as an employee, period.


Thanks, I'll do that and that's a strong recommendation for IBEW. 




H60 said:


> Time - How soon can I possibly start working? I've seen the schedules on union websites for application deadlines, testing and interview dates followed by semester start dates, for example IBEW has a 4 mo. timeline from application to semester start. So what does semester start mean to me? Is that the date I start working or start attending classes? If I'm accepted can I start working with the union prior to my semester start date? If not could I realistically knock on doors and connect with a Journeyman on my own to start working for before my semester start date?
> Basically I want to start working ASAP, how can I do that? I know that programs like Helmets to Hardhats can help accelerate the process but I don't know by how much.


Does anyone have any info on the time factor? How soon can I realistically expect to start working? 
I've filled out an ABC application, about to fill out an IBEW application, and planning on submitting both with the required documentation this week.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I started non-union, then got into the IBEW for a few years. I left after a while and worked for the so called "open" shops.

If you have a chance to go to the IBEW, take it. Hands down the best training out there. I might not agree with how things roll with the organization, but their training is better. That doesn't mean you can't educate yourself outside of the IBEW though, I have and I know plenty who have as well.

ABC.....Ugh.....I was never part of their program as an apprentice. I was however a Jman working for those companies, and I have the least amount of respect for the big "open" shops. The worst organizations I have ever had the misfortune of working with.

I have my own business now, and I am a member of neither, but would be inclined to go union way before going ABC.

Just my two cents......


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## Brother Noah (Jul 18, 2013)

H60 said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> I'm new to both this forum and the concept of electrician apprenticeships. I wish I had discovered this opportunity out of high school.
> 
> ...


The JATC (A federally approved program) is an organization that works in conjunction with the IBEW to train apprentice, that requires you to purchase your own books, your classes are paid for. The IBEW will have a higher scale in most areas than ABC plus we have H&W, retirement, IRA's, annuity's that are part of our packages where as with the ABC you would be responsible to make your own deal with a said contractor (Most of the time) Prevailing wage jobs require all contractors to pay the area unions scale and or package. Helmets to Hard Hats is the program for our former military. All jobs I worked nonunion except prevailing wage jobs I made about 20% less an hour than union scale and had none or very little in the way of benefits paid for by that said contractor. The local your speaking of is 569 and they have loads of solar work right now and are hiring CEs/CWs (another program you can ask about) I wish you well in your efforts to support your family no matter union or not and thank you for your past efforts for our country.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

That last post just made me think about the poor apprentices that journeyed out while on jobs......

While you are part of ABC or WECA you are regulated by the organization, same as if you were JATC, for your wages an benefits. However, once you journey out, you are on your own. That is not a bad thing to me, but it can change your pay and benefits in a heartbeat.

The larger "open" shops will shift you around from prevailing work (where you get paid union scale) to private work (where most of them bend you over and neglect the lube). 

That should give you something else to think about....


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Try for all the apprenticeship u can, in the meantime knock on contractors doors and electric motors shops see if they're hiring X vets. going to have to pay your dues for about six seven eight years before you make good money. san Diego has low wages. look into some night classes at your local JC for electrical take some classes see if you like them.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

look into some entry level Industrial Maintenance Mechanic, federal County local government entry-level maintenance mechanic.


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