# HIGH WATT LED PAR SUBSTITUTES?



## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Has anyone found success with LED replacements for PAR56, PAR64, etc? I need the equivalent of PAR56 500w narrow or medium flood, dimmable.


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

Last year I discovered HyLite LED Lighting. They make a direct PAR56 LED replacement. I put one in a church a couple of months ago and will be going back next month to replace the remaining 7 PAR56 bulbs with LED replacements. We did have to trim the retainer ring to fit the LED replacement. Other than that, the bulb fit the fixture just fine. The church is extremely happy.

Check them out here -- PAR Lamps | PAR64 LED Bulbs | PAR56 Retrofits | PAR45 Lamps. They come in dimmable and non-dimmable variety. Just a note, you will have to order the GX16D adapter separately.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Do you notice a difference in the light?

At $200ea, most of the places I deal with probably arent interested.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

brodgers said:


> Last year I discovered HyLite LED Lighting. They make a direct PAR56 LED replacement. I put one in a church a couple of months ago and will be going back next month to replace the remaining 7 PAR56 bulbs with LED replacements. We did have to trim the retainer ring to fit the LED replacement. Other than that, the bulb fit the fixture just fine. The church is extremely happy.
> 
> Check them out here -- PAR Lamps | PAR64 LED Bulbs | PAR56 Retrofits | PAR45 Lamps. They come in dimmable and non-dimmable variety. Just a note, you will have to order the GX16D adapter separately.


Omg I need these for this


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Slay301 said:


> Omg I need these for this
> View attachment 157468
> View attachment 157469


Holy hell . . .


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

dspiffy said:


> Holy hell . . .


106- 500 watt par 56 and it’s a mofo to get up there let me tell you. About once every 2 months I have to replace like 40-60 of them


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Slay301 said:


> 106- 500 watt par 56 and it’s a mofo to get up there let me tell you. About once every 2 months I have to replace like 40-60 of them


There has got to be a better way to do that.

For starters, you cant appreciate all the artwork on the ceiling due to the glare from the lights.


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

dspiffy said:


> Do you notice a difference in the light?
> 
> At $200ea, most of the places I deal with probably arent interested.


The light does appear a little brighter compared to the incandescent. I assumed it has to do with the color temperature. The LED bulb has a 3000K color temp whereas the incandescent bulbs are 2400K to 2700K.

My supplier suggested the 25 degree to replace medium floods and the 40 degree to replace the wide floods.

In talking to the decision makers I highlighted the energy savings (40W vs 300W), reduction in heat generation (less A/C), the longevity of the bulbs.

HyLite does offer a 60-day sample program. Fill-out a form and they ship you a bulb. If you like it, pay for it. If not, ship the bulb back within 60 days. That's what I did with the one bulb the church has now. If your supplier can't get you the form, I may still have the PDF in my email I can give you.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I wonder how many donations go to the power bill and repairs for that one feature. Seems like a total waste of money that could be used for something more beneficial.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

dspiffy said:


> There has got to be a better way to do that.
> 
> For starters, you cant appreciate all the artwork on the ceiling due to the glare from the lights.


That’s just because my phone was looking straight into it. Actually the mosaic looks really cool. However it’s on its way out up grading all the lighting in the whole church. Just gotta baby this thing along until after Christmas


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I wonder how many donations go to the power bill and repairs for that one feature. Seems like a total waste of money that could be used for something more beneficial.


Don’t worry it’s on it’s way out soon


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

Slay301 said:


> Don’t worry it’s on it’s way out soon


I see a motor on the left side of your picture. Is that some kind of cooling apparatus for the light?


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

brodgers said:


> I see a motor on the left side of your picture. Is that some kind of cooling apparatus for the light?


That would make it even weirder/cooler.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

brodgers said:


> I see a motor on the left side of your picture. Is that some kind of cooling apparatus for the light?


2 fans. It’s still hot AF


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Then believe it or not it’s got 2 modes daily mass which is an X across the box and the. Sunday mass is when they are all on. And here’s a pic of the concrete beams I thought was pretty cool


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

And here’s a IR photo I took


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Slay301 said:


> 2 fans. It’s still hot AF


We need more pictures.

How is all this controlled? How many circuits?


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I forfeit my original thread in favor of finding out absolutely everything about this installation.

When was all of this installed? If not original to the building, what predated it?

What are they changing to next year?


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Is this the only cool/weird thing in the building or are there others? 

Any ceiling fans off camera to bring the heat down in the winter?

WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS???? DOES THIS CHURCH THINK THIS IS NORMAL???


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

It has 18 30 amp circuits. They originally had 18 20 amp circuits. It had 250watt lamps in it then without consulting anyone they changed them to 500watts and blew every breaker in that panel. Right befor Christmas (the super bowl for them) had to find new
Breakers (put in cutler feed. Through breakers) then I had to Rewire the whole light with new 8 copper. Which I spent about 2 days hauling everything up there. Upon Rewireing I noticed that the lamp sockets were only 250 watt rated so I gutted those for 1000watt rated and high temp wire nuts. However now the thing gets 2 times as hot and the lamps burn out quicker I think that’s bs the née lamps are Chinese the ok’d ones were made in us GE. Hence the reason I had to take thermal pics. But they like it being brighter so I have to spend a day swapping out 45$ light builds once every month or so. The controls are even crazier there’s probably 50 or so ice cube relays which control another 50 or so latching lighting contractors. (Power on and power off) This is all original probably like 100 years. On this setup there’s 2 relays that switch 2 contractors that switch 2 split buss panels 
Old or so. The ceiling is 100% mosaic tile. And marble floors and walls and everything else. There are no fans to bring heat down. There’s a boiler system in an adjacent building with underground tunnels for the pipeing. They are changing out every light (or retrofitting) in the whole church next year and the controls to the tune of about 1.5 million). There’s tons of cool **** to see in another done there’s a ledge at the bottom of the dome with lamps on it that you have to tie off in the room behind the dome and lean out the window on your belly and have some one sit on your legs while you reach out to change the lamps. Don’t have anymore pics though I’ll take some next time I go there.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

That is a listed fixture, right?


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Slay301 said:


> It has 18 30 amp circuits. They originally had 18 20 amp circuits. It had 250watt lamps in it then without consulting anyone they changed them to 500watts and blew every breaker in that panel. Right befor Christmas (the super bowl for them) had to find new
> Breakers (put in cutler feed. Through breakers) then I had to Rewire the whole light with new 8 copper. Which I spent about 2 days hauling everything up there. Upon Rewireing I noticed that the lamp sockets were only 250 watt rated so I gutted those for 1000watt rated and high temp wire nuts. However now the thing gets 2 times as hot and the lamps burn out quicker I think that’s bs the née lamps are Chinese the ok’d ones were made in us GE. Hence the reason I had to take thermal pics. But they like it being brighter so I have to spend a day swapping out 45$ light builds once every month or so. The controls are even crazier there’s probably 50 or so ice cube relays which control another 50 or so latching lighting contractors. (Power on and power off) This is all original probably like 100 years. On this setup there’s 2 relays that switch 2 contractors that switch 2 split buss panels
> Old or so. The ceiling is 100% mosaic tile. And marble floors and walls and everything else. There are no fans to bring heat down. There’s a boiler system in an adjacent building with underground tunnels for the pipeing. They are changing out every light (or retrofitting) in the whole church next year and the controls to the tune of about 1.5 million). There’s tons of cool **** to see in another done there’s a ledge at the bottom of the dome with lamps on it that you have to tie off in the room behind the dome and lean out the window on your belly and have some one sit on your legs while you reach out to change the lamps. Don’t have anymore pics though I’ll take some next time I go there.


Why 30 amp breakers instead of adding 10 more 20 amp breakers?

What kind of fans are cooling it and when were they installed? How are the fans controlled?

Are the relays and switches 100 years old?! That seems unlikely.

There is absolutely nothing I am looking forward to more on this forum than detailed pictures from your next visit. And then new pictures once it's all LED. Are they keeping this fixture arrangement?

HOW DID YOU GET THIS JOB?!

I agree the quality of PARs has gone downhill. I have the same in one church that I work for-- 15 or so 500w PAR56 as stage lights-- and being used a few days a week for a few hours they dont even last a year.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

dspiffy said:


> Why 30 amp breakers instead of adding 10 more 20 amp breakers?
> 
> What kind of fans are cooling it and when were they installed? How are the fans controlled?
> 
> ...


2 1/4hp fan motors controlled from the panel. That’s controlled by contactor installed on side of encloser pulling heat out.

No spaces in panel for more breakers and 100year ok’d copper coated #14 wasn’t really cutting it anyway 

and I got the job by doing Maintence there all the time as outside contractor. There so much crazy **** there that it would be almost impossible for a different contractor to do it and know what’s going on. Being doing work there for years 

and sort of keeping the same arrangement but that old enclosure has to be taken apart carried down a **** ton of stairs to roof where it will be craned down the rest of the way. Getting replaced with focal point LEDs (not my choose)


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Slay301 said:


> 2 1/4hp fan motors controlled from the panel. That’s controlled by contactor installed on side of encloser pulling heat out.
> 
> No spaces in panel for more breakers and 100year ok’d copper coated #14 wasn’t really cutting it anyway
> 
> ...


What would you have chosen instead?


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

dspiffy said:


> What would you have chosen instead?


To LED retrofit from the get go or put the original 250 or 300 watts back in. But it’s getting swapped out on the major lighting upgrade now anyway. How ever I don’t make those choices the church does. But at the time no lighting reps could find a par 56 led substitute like the one mentioned above. And the wheels are turning on that project so it’s out of my hands


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Oh I thought you were saying you didnt care for the LED upgrades they chose.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

brodgers said:


> That is a listed fixture, right?


 YUol'l BurN YoUr ChUrCh DoWn!!!


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Slay301 said:


> To LED retrofit from the get go or put the original 250 or 300 watts back in. But it’s getting swapped out on the major lighting upgrade now anyway





dspiffy said:


> Oh I thought you were saying you didnt care for the LED upgrades they chose.


I’m indifferent sucks to have to tear the old one down and weld a new one together to fit the new
Lights


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Slay301 said:


> I’m indifferent sucks to have to tear the old one down and weld a new one together to fit the new
> Lights


Well you could always run these up the flagpole, it might save them enough money to be worth it.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

That would just cause more problems took them forever to pick out the ones they wanted and come up with designs for the new enclosure probably 50 man hours into then we design at this point. And the are set in their ways and it would probably really piss off the lighting designer who We do alot of work for on other jobs


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

Slay301 said:


> Omg I need these for this
> View attachment 157468
> View attachment 157469


Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

dspiffy said:


> Is this the only cool/weird thing in the building or are there others?
> 
> Any ceiling fans off camera to bring the heat down in the winter?
> 
> *WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS???? DOES THIS CHURCH THINK THIS IS NORMAL???*


I was thinking the very same thing. Then again, I have seen so many crazy things down through the years.


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

dspiffy said:


> At $200ea, most of the places I deal with probably arent interested.


Do a financial analysis for them. First, the cost of replacement metal halide lamps are getting high. Second the mean time between failure of the MH is very low compared to LED. Third, add in the cost of man lifts for parking lot lights. Then figure the operating cost of MH vs LED. You will easily prove that the return on investment is worth every penny. You only have to do this with a couple wattages and types of light and you can use those numbers for other customers.

In CA the EC I work for replaces wall packs daily with LED as well as parking lot lighting and carport lighting. No rational property manager will say no once they see the numbers. With regard to $200 units....look at the life expectancy. That is the key.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

@Slay301 
any updates yet ?


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> @Slay301
> any updates yet ?


Not yet gonna start a whole lighting update one the whole cathedral very soon though. It’s all gonna be color changing led controlled by cat6 and relays mow though should be fun running that around a 100year old mosaic master piece


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

1000bulbs stocks an option now, probably worth trying:





__





LED - PAR56 - Bulbs | 1000Bulbs.com


Shop for PAR56 LED light bulbs for indoor and outdoor lighting applications. Low prices and fast shipping on PAR56 lamps at 1000Bulbs.com!




www.1000bulbs.com


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