# Permits



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I went to estimate 3 portable generator hookup jobs today .... very simple , they requested an interlock with a generator receptacle...they all asked about permits.. normally , I don't pull a permit for this task.... what are your thoughts ? Especially, when a customer asks about it ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

We're stuck, hereabouts.

Anything > $500 requires a permit.

$500 used to be real money.

Now ?


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

telsa said:


> We're stuck, hereabouts.
> 
> Anything > $500 requires a permit.
> 
> ...




Wow, what a damper on business. I suppose you gotta charge up for almost everything 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Here's my experience and I'm retired from the city bldg dept.

As a licensed contractor you are required to follow all requirements. If you get caught doing work without permits it can jeopardize your license. In almost all cases the penalty is nothing more than 100% of the permit fee (you'll pay double for the permit if you get caught) but if something goes wrong and there's an investigation, the fact you knowingly violated the requirements will bite you like you don't want to be bitten. 

Just as you don't want someone who is unlicensed and not paying insurance, etc. to underbid you and take the work, you shouldn't be underbidding others who follow the rules and pull the permits when required.

So my advice is pull the permit.

From the business perspective I realize it's a calculated risk. If the most common penalty is a $50 upcharge on your permit fee and you only get caught on 1 out of 10 jobs, you've made money and put less work into every job. So on that note, make your own decision.


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

MikeFL said:


> Here's my experience and I'm retired from the city bldg dept.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Appreciate the advice , I'm not sure if money is the issue however ..... I actually make money on a permit..$25 permit I charge $150 for instance.... I suppose it's just more of a hassle... wondering , does a homeowner get fined in any instance ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I can't even put a number on the amount of generator connections I have installed, but it's a lot (thank you Super Storm Sandy). The only time I ever pulled a permit is when the generator connection was with a service upgrade.

When a customer asks about permits for typical jobs like this (or pretty much any service or installation type jobs), I tell them something like this:

"_I would never tell a customer that we shouldn't pull a permit, but most homeowners simply don't want it. It's going to substantially increase the cost and adds other issues. No one wants the town snooping in their house anyway._"

What Mike said above might be what happens in his area, but certainly not mine. There is really no way to get caught if you are smart about it, the building department has no right to enter or investigate anything. And even if they can prove something, all they make you do is pull the permit and get it inspected.

Right now my state is openly allowing handymen and carpenters without licenses to advertise electrical work on Craigslist. When we report them to the state, they say that they can't do anything about it. The same guys have been advertising on Craigslist for many, many years. So you think we care about pulling permits? You simply can't compete if you pull permits, the system makes it too hard.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> Appreciate the advice , I'm not sure if money is the issue however ..... I actually make money on a permit..$25 permit I charge $150 for instance.... I suppose it's just more of a hassle... wondering , does a homeowner get fined in any instance ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is something to talk to the other contractors in your area about. Only they know the system in your area.

As for you making money off of the permit, will it always be like that? What if the inspector requires you to be there for the inspection, like they sometimes do (especially when they hear generator)? Inspectors around here give 3-7 hour windows for you to wait.

As for the permit itself, do you have to bring the application to the building department and then go back to pay for and pick up the permit?


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I don't know..... once the P word is used, you gotta bid it for pulling it. Imo...


----------



## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Right now my state is openly allowing handymen and carpenters without licenses to advertise electrical work on Craigslist. When we report them to the state, they say that they can't do anything about it. The same guys have been advertising on Craigslist for many, many years. So you think we care about pulling permits? You simply can't compete if you pull permits, the system makes it too hard.


Wow, that's just not right.:001_huh:


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> This is something to talk to the other contractors in your area about. Only they know the system in your area.
> 
> As for you making money off of the permit, will it always be like that? What if the inspector requires you to be there for the inspection, like they sometimes do (especially when they hear generator)? Inspectors around here give 3-7 hour windows for you to wait.
> 
> As for the permit itself, do you have to bring the application to the building department and then go back to pay for and pick up the permit?




Ya depending I try to be hopeful and figure it for 2 hrs, because that's my experience in the past with them. I see what your saying could be hours involved and added or changed work. I have open permits in some towns where the inspector just never even bothered to follow up and check the work... (this is for smaller jobs ofcourse) 

Ex. Town health department wanted extension cords removed from a restaurant prep kitchen and gfci's installed. Since town was involved already I pulled a permit, electrical department never bothered with any of the follow up after getting the permit online , just took permit fee... never called back to check work after I left 3 messages 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I was working on a job and the next door neighbour wanted two keylesses added to her garage. She wanted a permit so she got her permit. The inspector thought it was funny and gave me a green sticker.

Some people are scared of electricity and a permit buys them peace of mind. Who am I to judge? I prefer to deal with people like that.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

The minimum permit fee here is about $275.
It will take a minimum of two hours to pull a permit. 
If I have to wait for an inspector, 1/2 my day is shot.

Clearly inspections are not very cost effective for a job under $5,000.

A permit here has turned into a $1000 adventure.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Suncoast Power said:


> The minimum permit fee here is about $275.
> It will take a minimum of two hours to pull a permit.
> If I have to wait for an inspector, 1/2 my day is shot.
> 
> ...


That's dumb. I process permits on-line in a matter of minutes. It still has to be approved manually but that takes less than a day.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

99cents said:


> That's dumb. I process permits on-line in a matter of minutes. It still has to be approved manually but that takes less than a day.


Come down here and you will be doing it manually while waiting in line.:laughing:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> That's dumb. I process permits on-line in a matter of minutes. It still has to be approved manually but that takes less than a day.


 Every once in awhile a permit will take around a week. Normally they take 2-3 weeks. Some towns you can expect 4 weeks. And I am talking about permits for service upgrades that require no plan review or anything.



Suncoast Power said:


> Come down here and you will be doing it manually while waiting in line.:laughing:


Yup, I love waiting in line behind 4 homeowners asking why the crap they added isn't passing inspection :laughing:


----------



## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I got lucky yesterday with permitting. Found a damaged meter base that needed immediate attention. 
Went to the town, got the permit, had the overhead drop disconnected, ran to the supply house, came back replaced the meter base, drove 2 ground rods, and got the inspection passed off in 3 hours.
That's unheard of around here. Generally we'll set something like this up a week in advance and it wouldn't go that smooth.


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Suncoast Power said:


> The minimum permit fee here is about $275.
> It will take a minimum of two hours to pull a permit.
> If I have to wait for an inspector, 1/2 my day is shot.
> 
> ...


That is outrageous. Report them for price gouging!


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Every once in awhile a permit will take around a week. Normally they take 2-3 weeks. Some towns you can expect 4 weeks. And I am talking about permits for service upgrades that require no plan review or anything.
> 
> 
> Yup, I love waiting in line behind 4 homeowners asking why the crap they added isn't passing inspection :laughing:


Do you have out business cards to those people?


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

More than once I felt like setting myself on fire in line at the building department like a monk style protest.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MikeFL said:


> That is outrageous. Report them for price gouging!


I have a permit runner that takes care of everything now.
If someone needs something done, I give her their number. If it happens it happens. If not, I move on with my life.

This is our permit runner.
Somehow, it gets done:

https://www.facebook.com/cibele.arrechea/videos/10154031310373036/


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

WronGun said:


> ... wondering , does a homeowner get fined in any instance ?


The violation carries with the land. What used to happen is someone applied for a permit and their drawings showing existing conditions indicated work that had never been permitted. They were told to permit that too. Their defense was they bought it like that. The city's defense is you bought the violation; get the permit and pay the fines. Then owners started going against title insurance companies for damages. Then title insurance companies started doing permit history inquiries before writing a policy.

So yes, whether discovered while the current owner owns it or whether the next owner owns it, the owner can get in a situation they don't want to be in.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm not going to pull a permit for a lot of the small stuff I do, especially small service calls. On the other hand, I'm not going to do a larger long term one without one, why do I want to hang my butt out in the breeze with the local, state, and fire marshal cruising around. Further more, when I have the pleasure of having sub labor working with me, why should they worry either. I realize its a hassle, I account for the costs as best I can and hope I don't have to wait for extended periods of time. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. 

I know when we bought our new place, the town appraiser was right over to look at the inside.


----------

