# Article 760?



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pking2 said:


> thought this was interesting i was trying to study to take my imsa test and came across section 760.41 (B) in the 2011 code and if im reading it right we now have to have a red breaker if its supplying a fire alarm equipment and it has to say "fire alarm circuit" on it Haveyou guys seen any of these breakers sold anywhere?





> 760.41(B) 2011 NEC.
> *
> (B) Branch Circuit.​*​​​​The branch circuit supplying the fire
> alarm equipment(s) shall supply no other loads. The location
> ...


I have not seen them but you could use red paint on the handle..

Welcome to the forum enjoy the fun..:thumbup:


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## pking2 (Nov 13, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> I have not seen them but you could use red paint on the handle..
> 
> Welcome to the forum enjoy the fun..:thumbup:


thanks the red paint might work but it cant obscure the manufactures markings and how are you going to write fire alarm circuit on there they leave no room to do that


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pking2 said:


> thought this was interesting i was trying to study to take my imsa test and came across section 760.41 (B) in the 2011 code and if im reading it right we now have to have a red breaker if its supplying a fire alarm equipment and it has to say "fire alarm circuit" on it Haveyou guys seen any of these breakers sold anywhere?


 

*




760.41 NPLFA Circuit Power Source Requirements.​
(A) Power Source. 
The power source of non–power-limited​

Click to expand...

*


> *fire alarm circuits shall comply with Chapters 1 through 4, and*
> *the output voltage shall be not more than 600 volts, nominal.*
> *The fire alarm circuit disconnect shall be permitted to be secured*
> *in the “on” position.*​​*
> ...




*Hey thanks pking i just figured out how to copy and paste from my NEC PDF..:thumbup:*​​​​​
​


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## pking2 (Nov 13, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> *Hey thanks pking i just figured out how to copy and paste from my HEC PDF..:thumbup:*​​​


thats cool 
by the way you can call me phil


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## ColoradoMaster3768 (Jan 16, 2010)

pking2 said:


> thought this was interesting i was trying to study to take my imsa test and came across section 760.41 (B) in the 2011 code and if im reading it right we now have to have a red breaker if its supplying a fire alarm equipment and it has to say "fire alarm circuit" on it Haveyou guys seen any of these breakers sold anywhere?


 
760.41 (B) is not requiring a "red circuit breaker." 760.41 (B) states, in part, "The circuit disconnecting means shall have red identification,..." 760.41 (B) is simply using the same language that has been in NFPA 72, _The Fire Alarm Code, _for years.

I simply have them ID the circuit breaker for the FACP with a red marker—such as red embossing/labeling tape, and make sure that it is properly identified in the breaker legend. NFPA 72 also requires that the circuit breaker serving the FACP be identified at the FACP.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pking2 said:


> thanks the red paint might work but it cant obscure the manufactures markings and how are you going to write fire alarm circuit on there they leave no room to do that


 Thats true i could not find red circuit breakers on line as of yet any way..

It would help if they made the code for stuff that exists..:laughing:


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## pking2 (Nov 13, 2010)

ColoradoMaster3768 said:


> 760.41 (B) is not requiring a "red circuit breaker." 760.41 (B) states, in part, "The circuit disconnecting means shall have red identification,..." 760.41 (B) is simply using the same language that has been in NFPA 72, _The Fire Alarm Code, _for years.
> 
> I simply have them ID the circuit breaker for the FACP with a red marker—such as red embossing/labeling tape, and make sure that it is properly identified in the breaker legend. NFPA 72 also requires that the circuit breaker serving the FACP be identified at the FACP.


ok i get what you are saying and that sound a lot easier but it also has the words permanently identified in there so does a sticker/labeling tape qualify as permanent?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pking2 said:


> thats cool
> by the way you can call me phil


Phil good to meet you..:thumbup:


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## ColoradoMaster3768 (Jan 16, 2010)

pking2 said:


> ok i get what you are saying and that sound a lot easier but it also has the words permanently identified in there so does a sticker/labeling tape qualify as permanent?


GIven a closer read, the permanent identification statement you are referring to is at the FACP, not at the circuit breaker panel. 760.41 (B) states, in part, "The _location_ of the branch-circuit overcurrent protection device shall be permanently identified at the _fire alarm control unit._ [_emphasis mine_] The fire alarm control unit is what I was referring to as the FACP (Fire Alarm Control Panel).

760.41 (B) simply says that, "The circuit disconnection means shall have red identification,..." which could simply be something attached adjacent to the circuit breaker that is acceptable to the AHJ.


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## pking2 (Nov 13, 2010)

ColoradoMaster3768 said:


> GIven a closer read, the permanent identification statement you are referring to is at the FACP, not at the circuit breaker panel. 760.41 (B) states, in part, "The _location_ of the branch-circuit overcurrent protection device shall be permanently identified at the _fire alarm control unit._ [_emphasis mine_] The fire alarm control unit is what I was referring to as the FACP (Fire Alarm Control Panel).
> 
> 760.41 (B) simply says that, "The circuit disconnection means shall have red identification,..." which could simply be something attached adjacent to the circuit breaker that is acceptable to the AHJ.


it seems you are correct misread on my part


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## ColoradoMaster3768 (Jan 16, 2010)

pking2 said:


> ok i get what you are saying and that sound a lot easier but it also has the words permanently identified in there so does a sticker/labeling tape qualify as permanent?


 
The good news is the NFPA Code committees are trying to "marry-up" all those disjointed code requirements.


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## ColoradoMaster3768 (Jan 16, 2010)

pking2 said:


> it seems you are correct misread on my part


 
To paraphrase what the chairman of one of the NFPA code committees told several of us a few months ago: "Read, think about it, re-read it, think some more, then go back and read it again." I do that, and many times I still have trouble understanding it. (That same chairman also mentioned doing this process in a bar, where most _good_ _Code_ is written.)


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## pking2 (Nov 13, 2010)

ColoradoMaster3768 said:


> The good news is the NFPA Code committees are trying to "marry-up" all those disjointed code requirements.


that is a good thing. thanks for all the explaining guys you cleared some things up i should really slow down and pay a little more attention to what im reading and i wouldn't waste your guys time


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Red fingernail polish on the breaker has always worked around here. ( and helps explain why i have it in my truck)as well as a properly written panel schedule, and a sharpie or p-touch label on all facp and strobe booster panels. without looking back in old code books those requiremants have been there for years.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I have just hit the breaker with some of the same red paint we use to mark the boxes.

Yes it sometimes obscures the markings, I have not had an inspector question it.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I have just hit the breaker with some of the same red paint we use to mark the boxes.
> 
> Yes it sometimes obscures the markings, I have not had an inspector question it.


 

I do it by setting a disco beside the panel and painting it red. Use normal breaker


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*So then..*

*Can I power up the 2 SNAC panels and the Expander off of this ckt also? Or just the FACP?




(B) Branch Circuit. ​*​*
The branch circuit supplying the fire​*
*alarm equipment(s) shall supply no other loads. The location*
*of the branch-circuit overcurrent protective device*
*shall be permanently identified at the fire alarm control*
*unit. The circuit disconnecting means shall have red identification,*
*shall be accessible only to qualified personnel,*
*and shall be identified as “FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT.” The*
*red identification shall not damage the overcurrent protective*
*devices or obscure the manufacturer’s markings. This*
*branch circuit shall not be supplied through ground-fault*
*circuit interrupters or arc-fault circuit-interrupters.*​​


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*Another part of electrical*



leland said:


> *Can I power up the 2 SNAC panels and the Expander off of this ckt also? Or just the FACP?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why does low voltage scare electricians?


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

leland said:


> Why does low voltage scare electricians?


imo it says "fire alarm equipment(s)" we do it all the time.
its related equipment, it comes down to, how many circuits do you need to serve the load. we usually write rfi's to the engineer on this issue, simply to get paid for the extra circuits.


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

+1 on red fingernail polish.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

leland said:


> Why does low voltage scare electricians?


 

Too much red tape. It doesn't scare us, but it's just a pain. Just last week I was working in the Navy Lodge and had to move a fire alarm to install some cove lighting. I knew better than to de-term it because it was monitored. So I loosened the plate and just moved it out 4". Well, by me moving it around, it pulled loose from the wirenut joint out in the hallway. We of course didn't know it until the fire marshall and his crew storm the building. First thing he said was "what are you guys doing to my building and where are your permits?"


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