# Heat trace



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

It's all basically the same crap, get the one that your favorite supply house sells the most of.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Do you have to get a measured kit , or can you purchase large reels and splice kits ? 

I look around and see 150' , 200', 300' .etc. I don't want to go around measuring I just want to buy quantity.

I honestly don't even know if this stuff can just be cut where I want it


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I always carried a milk crate of assorted sizes on the van. 

Raychem sells them in coils that can be cut if I'm not mistaken.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I always carried a milk crate of assorted sizes on the van.
> 
> Raychem sells them in coils that can be cut if I'm not mistaken.


The self regualated heat tape ( trace ) is the best methold to use due you can cut any length but just be aware of max distance per listing how far you can run.

and ya they do come in both 120 and 240 volts so expect that. 

sure the self regulated heattape cost more but it worth it.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I use this stuff.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

frenchelectrican said:


> The self regualated heat tape ( trace ) is the best methold to use due you can cut any length but just be aware of max distance per listing how far you can run.
> 
> and ya they do come in both 120 and 240 volts so expect that.
> 
> sure the self regulated heattape cost more but it worth it.


This sounds like what i used. Was 120v and could cut to size. If i remember right the sheathing was blue.

It eats alot of electric but works very well

Texting and Driving


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

This job seems like a major time consumer , after doing calculations it's seems I need 750' - 1000' of heat trace ..... sounds like this could get pricey 

This is new to me but does 3-5k sound like a fully installed heat cable system with 3-4 dedicated GFCI receptacles , And thermostat switches...

Just trying to get some ballpark pricing people normally pay for this stuff , after doing all the paperwork I didn't expect to be sending a $4300 estimate ?



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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> This job seems like a major time consumer , after doing calculations it's seems I need 750' - 1000' of heat trace ..... sounds like this could get pricey
> 
> This is new to me but does 3-5k sound like a fully installed heat cable system with 3-4 dedicated GFCI receptacles , And thermostat switches...
> 
> ...


That much footage ?? 

I would go with 240 volts verison if you can get it due the distance you mention. typically most 120 volts useally maxed out about 300 feet or so before the voltage drop become show up there. 

this is in a large commercial building ?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> That much footage ??
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is a home 75' in length ,24" eave, gutters/downspouts and multiple valleys. 900' of heat cable according to calculations 

I'm just over 3k for just the heat trace portion of the install. However, by the time I factor in sensors along with (4) GFCI circuits .... $4500-$4700 ... can this be right ?!?

I've never done this so my estimate could be way off, it's based on material costs and education from watching 20 YouTube videos....

The calls are coming in for heat trace , i have one on the schedule that came in around $2100 for 400-500' with (2) GFCI circuits...

My area had many homes with serious damage from roof Ice the last couple years 

Again , I'm just jumping in , my numbers could be off... but I will learn on these ones.



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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> This is a home 75' in length ,24" eave, gutters/downspouts and multiple valleys.
> 
> I'm around 3k for just the heat trace portion install 900' I've never done this so my estimate could be way off, it's based on material costs and education from watching 20 YouTube videos....
> 
> ...



Ahh gotcha now that clear up the details.,, the *deicer* heating cable that is little different than standard self regulated heat tape.,

I used to live in super cold area before so it is common to me to see those.

the deicer heating cable typically cost little more due they build those deicer cable more thicker than conventail heat tapes.,

ya you can throw few 120 V 20 amp circuit but please check your state codes about the GFCI ( it may ask ya to use GFPE instead of GFCI so make a note of that ) 

I am looking at least 4.5 K on materals and labor ( this part will kinda eat ya up a little due you will be on the roof a bit of time ) 

you may want to rent a boom lift unit to speed up the whole thing ( and yes get some scrap or crappy plywood to lay on the ground so you dont tear up the grass )


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

WronGun said:


> This job seems like a major time consumer , after doing calculations it's seems I need 750' - 1000' of heat trace ..... sounds like this could get pricey
> 
> This is new to me but does 3-5k sound like a fully installed heat cable system with 3-4 dedicated GFCI receptacles , And thermostat switches...
> 
> ...


That number works if it's your house. 1000 feet of self regulating heat trace is $4000 your cost. My price for that job would never be under $10,000 but closer to $14,000


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

backstay said:


> That number works if it's your house. 1000 feet of self regulating heat trace is $4000 your cost. My price for that job would never be under $10,000 but closer to $14,000




Really ? No it's not the self regulating stuff... I was looking to do this type if heat trace but the customer wants frost king for some odd reason. So (4) complete 240' kits is $500


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> Really ? No it's not the self regulating stuff... I was looking to do this type if heat trace but the customer wants frost king for some odd reason. So (4) complete 240' kits is $500
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have worked on that verison many years ago so I am kinda famuiair with that and the old style was a thermosast on one end but they were allright for that useage.

those frost king cable typically found in big box store. due most big box stores dont useally stock self regulated heattapes often.

I heard there is a kit but I dont recall if still around or not but there is one kit that have sensor to detect snowfall then it will turn it on.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

It's hard to price having not done it before ... it looks either extremely time consuming or is it as simple as clip, clip and move on 


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

WronGun said:


> It's hard to price having not done it before ... it looks either extremely time consuming or is it as simple as clip, clip and move on
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wrong Gun

Several years back , I was in an informal partnership with a roofing
company. They installed "raychem self regulating deicing cables.

These cables come in 120 or 240 volt.

For The 240 volt , we used #10 awg and 240 volt "ground fault
equipment " circuit breakers (30 ma trip / *not* GFCI 5 ma trip)

They were contractors for a company out of the New england States 
called "Bylin roof ice melt systems" - not sure of spelling . this company 
sold customized engineered systems specific to properties needs , the 
roofer bought all materials including deicing cables , then we provided 
circuit breakers , panel upgrades (if the system pulled high amount of 
amps) and any other electrical supplies.

To answer your question , not only is this VERY expensive , but if you
get calls direct from customers as opposed to being in a network , you
will soon find out , when bidding correctly and with code compliant
materials most inquiries will end up being a run around. 

The reason it's a run around is because you will be competing
with handymen and other roofers who have no knowledge of
the GFEP requirements and are putting up Home depot boxed
cables that are cord & plug connected , with no considerations
of the load being added (which IMO can be considered a
*continuous load* per service sizing calcs (if the climate
is consistently cold and no thermostatic deicing cable controllers
are being used.

Correct 240 volt GFEP breakers can go for as high as $325.00 or 
more. The cables generally retail for $4.00 a ft or more.

Check into "Bylin roof ice melt systems".


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Wrong Gun
> 
> The reason it's a run around is because you will be competing
> with handymen and other roofers who have no knowledge of
> ...



I agree with Lighterup part and yes I have see that situation before and I have couple customers called me with the issue with roof deiceing system and those handyman really did overload few circuits and some done some insane connection on them.

One customer called me due their front lights do not work at all due the handyman use a short extendison cord and hook it up with socket adaptor and ran it from there. 

I end up put a new circuit for deicer and separated switch for it. 

and yes with current trend those handyman and some roofer dont care about codes and they can try to get away with it.

the last thing I want to give ya a head up with deicers becarefull where you run the cables and use correct clips but make sure you seal up those fastners or clips otherwise it will come back to ya with leaky roofs. 

if you have very good roofer company in your area maybe talk to them see if they can co-plan with you due those roofers can able lay the cable very fast and they have some of the equipment that they can able handle steep pitch roofs. ( just a idea to try to see what they offer on that)


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## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

WronGun said:


> This is a home 75' in length ,24" eave, gutters/downspouts and multiple valleys. 900' of heat cable according to calculations
> 
> I'm just over 3k for just the heat trace portion of the install. However, by the time I factor in sensors along with (4) GFCI circuits .... $4500-$4700 ... can this be right ?!?
> 
> ...


Call a company like Britech, give them the dimensions of your building and the application and they will give you cut lengths, fasteners and a controller so the trace isn't on all winter, just when there is water in the gutter. Not real cheap but we have installations 8-10 years old still working. Not sure they sell in the US but there must be someone that does. 
http://www.britech.ca/snow.html


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I kind of like the idea of going with a kit for the first install like Frost King.. just to get familiar. 

I am hesitating to press send on this estimate because I don't know what kind of labor is involved 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> I agree with Lighterup part and yes I have see that situation before and I have couple customers called me with the issue with roof deiceing system and those handyman really did overload few circuits and some done some insane connection on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good tips , I'm dealing with very easy roofs on these potential jobs ... I wouldn't bother with something that involves a very high and complicated roof 


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> I kind of like the idea of going with a kit for the first install like Frost King.. just to get familiar.
> 
> I am hesitating to press send on this estimate because I don't know what kind of labor is involved
> 
> ...


As far for the circuits it easy on that side but lay out the deicer cable that will take longer due you will need at least couple extendison ladder to get up on the roof but if the customer have gutter in there.,, just be extra carefull with it.

try not to put any weight on the gutter itself unless you are on the fastner that useally hold the gutter in place. ( it will useally have a spacer to prevent from expanding or crushing )

but for labor to install it .,, you will be looking at least half day or more so expect that. however I would listed for a full day for sure. you may want get couple extra grunts along to speed it up. 
with shallow pitch roof you will be moving along pretty good clip of speed once you know the pattern what it set up for. 

just bewarn the customers that if you going install the cable they have to clean the gutter get all the craps out of them first before you lay the cable in otherwise it will be super messy with it. 

That what I make a note to the customers before and I forewarn them to make sure the gutter is clean otherwise either they pay me extra or have someone else to come out and clean the gutter first.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> As far for the circuits it easy on that side but lay out the deicer cable that will take longer due you will need at least couple extendison ladder to get up on the roof but if the customer have gutter in there.,, just be extra carefull with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well , after reading all the responses I decided to just send the estimate and learn from the job if it gets accepted , I don't see myself losing money... I think he will be a little shocked at the price. 

I do have a smaller install that's been accepted which is roughly 1/2 of this jobs install at just about 1/2 this jobs cost $2100...So maybe my pricing isn't that far off.




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## jsmart84 (Nov 20, 2011)

I specialize in roof deicer products. I use constant watt cables for most of mine. sure they come in a preset size but there a fraction of the price and if were talking cables there doing the same job . If you really want to sell someone something nice go to meltmyice.com and get a 24-36 inch ice free zone panel. It unfortunatly only takes a self regulating cable but panels will ensure the entire eave is clear not just a path for water. I also recommend a DS-8 rain snow temp controller for control. Justa switch sucks and if left on this stuff can easily cost alot more than the controller will initially cost. Placement of the rain/snow sensor is critical because it needs to be in a spot that may get wet whether its flying snow or rain or melt from heat and thaw cycle. Good luck feel free to PM me if you need any help. I prefer Danfoss Constant wattage cables, Frost King and other Big box store brand cables are garbage and so are the clips that hold them to the roof. Raychems cables are ok but there ideal installation is with a screw . getting a tile pealed up enough to get a screw in could risk breaking it. The ones Danfoss come with have spikes, They come thru but they dont move.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

The client hasn’t responded which I’m not surprised with a $4200 price tag 


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WronGun said:


> The client hasn’t responded which I’m not surprised with a $4200 price tag
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am sure some of the clients will say too much money due some clients do have hidden stack of money to burn. 

Ya are not the only one you see in your area and I have see it over here as well when I come up a estame or bid and few do take couple backstep and get someone else cheaper and end up call me to fix their cheap workmanship. ( that I do charge heavy for it )


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## jsmart84 (Nov 20, 2011)

In all honest there s two types of cables.. the garbage that is frost king and king air and then everyone else. In use a danfoss constant wattage cable . The clips are better etc. Th at keeps the job apt on cost . The only.downside is picking th e right premade cable. 
As for $4200 how much roofline exactly? Measurements? Eaves,downspouts do yo u have pictures. Cables are cables they will.melt.a path you really.want to stop them.sell.them on heated panels. The thing is there spending money to not deal.woth the B.S. of insurance etc


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