# Trick Question



## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

I am preparing to take a journeyman's electrical test so I bought a book that has some practice test questions. I came across the question below. The answer key gives "C" as the correct answer. The reference is 422.16(B)(1)
I emailed the author and asked if maybe he had made a mistake because I think the correct answer should be choice "A". He emailed back and said he guarantees all the answers in the book and that I am missing the trick in the answer. We have been going back and forth and he wont admit he is wrong. I think he is full of crap...What say you?? Am I missing something here or is "A" the correct answer to the question below?

Which of the following is not permitted if an electric kitchen waste disposer is to be cord and plug connected?[/B]

A. The flexible cord is terminated without a grounding type attachment plug
B. The receptacle is located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
C. The flexible cord has a length not greater than 36 inches.
D. The flexible cord has a length of 24 inches


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

C is right can't be longer then 3 foot


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

My answer would also be A because the question is asking what is not allowed .therefore which of the following is wrong. It is allowed to be up to 36 inches . It should be connected with a grounding type plug attacment no? The


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

I could be mistaken but if the appliance is double insulated it will not have a ground prong on the cord cap. Example look at hair dryers and curling irons.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Wait !! Forget what I just said, just remembered you said garbage disposal. Sorry!!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

TimChaput69 said:


> I could be mistaken but if the appliance is double insulated it will not have a ground prong on the cord cap. Example look at hair dryers and curling irons.



The exceptions are not usually the correct answers on exams. It seems that A is the correct answer.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

With out Looking at the section I would agree and say C. Under uses permitted or non is the ungrounded attachment plug listed?


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## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> With out Looking at the section I would agree and say C. Under uses permitted or non is the ungrounded attachment plug listed?


422.16(B)(1) states

Electrically operated kitchen waste disposers SHALL be permitted to cord and plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer where all of the following conditions are met.
1. The flexible cord SHALL be terminated WITH a grounding type attachment plug.
2. The length of the cord shall NOT be less than 18 inches and NOT over 36 inches.
3. Receptacles shall be located to avoid physical damage
4. The receptacle shall be accessible

There is an exception to "1" that basically says if the appliance is double insulated it does not need a grounded type plug.

Do you still think the answer is "C"??


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Traveller said:


> 422.16(B)(1) states
> 
> Electrically operated kitchen waste disposers SHALL be permitted to cord and plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer where all of the following conditions are met.
> 1. The flexible cord SHALL be terminated WITH a grounding type attachment plug.
> ...


Yes it's C. Because answer a doesn't read the same as the exception. It needs to read identical to the exception for it to be considered the correct answer. Listed is the keyword missing.


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## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

JmanAllen said:


> C is right can't be longer then 3 foot


"C" states "The flexible cord has a length not greater than 36 inches.
To me that means it could be anywhere from 1 to 36 inches..There is a lot of gray areas with the way it is worded.

Choice "A" is more correct because an ungrounded plug if definitely NOT permitted in this situation. No gray areas there...in my opinion


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Traveller said:


> "C" states "The flexible cord has a length not greater than 36 inches.
> To me that means it could be anywhere from 1 to 36 inches..There is a lot of gray areas with the way it is worded.
> 
> Choice "A" is more correct because an ungrounded plug if definitely NOT permitted in this situation. No gray areas there...in my opinion


For it to be A it needs to be worded indentical or the question needs to be rephrased so the exception is noted. 
As they say, when in doubt answer is always C


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Traveller said:


> "C" states "The flexible cord has a length not greater than 36 inches.
> To me that means it could be anywhere from 1 to 36 inches..There is a lot of gray areas with the way it is worded.
> 
> Choice "A" is more correct because an ungrounded plug if definitely NOT permitted in this situation. No gray areas there...in my opinion


Unless the disposer is of the double insulated type.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> For it be A it needs to be worded indentical or the question needs to be rephrased so the exception is noted.
> As they say, when in doubt answer is always C



I disagree Sal. The answer would be "A". Forget the exception as that test usually are based on the general rules not the exception unless specifically mentioned.


"A" says just the opposite of this


> The flexible cord SHALL be terminated WITH a grounding type attachment plug.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I disagree Sal. The answer would be "A". Forget the exception as that test usually are based on the general rules not the exception unless specifically mentioned.
> 
> "A" says just the opposite of this


The exception states the electric waste disposal needs to be double insulated for the attachment plug to be of the ungrounding type. 

Where in the question is that mentioned. No where.. So C is the answer.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> The exception states the electric waste disposal needs to be double insulated for the attachment plug to be of the ungrounding type.
> 
> Where in the question is that mentioned. No where.. So C is the answer.


So how is "C" correct if the question asks which one of the following is *NOT *correct.

C is correct as the cord cannot be over 3'. Two negatives make a positive so you are saying the cord can be over 3'


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> So how is "C" correct if the question asks which one of the following is NOT correct.
> 
> C is correct as the cord cannot be over 3'. Two negatives make a positive so you are saying the cord can be over 3'


What I'm stating is that c represents the 1-4 conditions met. 

The question doesn't state the GD is double insulated. So how can A be right? C states that the cord cannot be longer then 36" 

You can't put an ungrounded type plug on just any disposal ??? Your stating you can.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> *C states that the cord cannot be longer then 36"
> *


So is that correct or *NOT* correct. The question asks what is not correct. C is a correct statement as are "B" and "D". "A" is the only one that can be wrong at times.


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## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> What I'm stating is that c represents the 1-4 conditions met.
> 
> The question doesn't state the GD is double insulated. So how can A be right? C states that the cord cannot be longer then 36"
> 
> You can't put an ungrounded type plug on just any disposal ??? Your stating you can.


Because the question doesn't state the GD is double insulated is PRECISELY why I think "A" is the answer...I am having a hard time following your logic. I am not saying you are wrong it just seems like you are contradicting your self.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I give up -- I'm trying to cook dinner and post-- :no:


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

A. :thumbsup:


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

So i got a double insulated pool pump does it need a grounded cord ...or to be bonded? Double insulated or not its a motor with water in it attached to a metal sink? Ground it anyway..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I give up -- I'm trying to cook dinner and post-- :no:


Whats for dinner?


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Whats for dinner?


Lamb chops.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

When unsure,,, Check Charlie.
Then move on to the next question.

C is the correct answer.


<old navy way of test taking>


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Whats for dinner?





Salvatoreg02 said:


> Lamb chops.



Pork Chops , Brown Rice and Asparagus covered with olive oil and spice and baked. Yummy it was.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Pork Chops , Brown Rice and Asparagus covered with olive oil and spice and baked. Yummy it was.


Lamp chops w/ garlic, onions, olive oil, lemon, parsley, salt & pepper. 
Rissotto 
Salad


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## Modern Castle Inc. (Nov 9, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> When unsure,,, Check Charlie.
> Then move on to the next question.
> 
> C is the correct answer.
> ...


I am going to give away a navy secret here,

When writing the test, the are required to have equal amounts of each answer A,B,C and D. So when you take the test you skip the questions you don't know, complete the test add up all the a,b,c and d s then go back and answer the questions you skipped armed with the knowledge that you need 4 more a s for example.....


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## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

*Update to "trick Question"*

Well I finally got an explanation from the test writer and yes choice "C" is the correct answer.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Traveller said:


> Well I finally got an explanation from the test writer and yes choice "C" is the correct answer.


Now, please explain why???


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## handyandy (Jan 3, 2012)

Traveller said:


> Well I finally got an explanation from the test writer and yes choice "C" is the correct answer.


you going to share?


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## wesleydnunder (Mar 19, 2012)

It doesn't appear that there is a correct answer given.

Mark


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## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

handyandy said:


> you going to share?


OK here is the explanation.
Choice "A" is incorrect because it is allowed in the exception. 
Choice "C" is correct because of the way it is worded. "the flexible cord has a length not greater than 36 inches"....Well that would include a cord that is 5 inches, 10 inches, 17 inches and so on. We all know that the cord has to be between 18 and 36 inches so because of the wording "C" is the right answer.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Traveller said:


> OK here is the explanation.
> Choice "A" is incorrect because it is allowed in the exception.
> Choice "C" is correct because of the way it is worded. "the flexible cord has a length not greater than 36 inches"....Well that would include a cord that is 5 inches, 10 inches, 17 inches and so on. We all know that the cord has to be between 18 and 36 inches so because of the wording "C" is the right answer.



I thought about that and said that isn't the case simply because the statement a cord cannot be greater than 36" is a true statement. It wasn't stating that all cords could be any length up to 36".

Very poorly worded question. The exception are generally not used on these exams-- at least that is what many good test takers have told me. They are looking for the general rule.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I thought about that and said that isn't the case simply because the statement a cord cannot be greater than 36" is a true statement. It wasn't stating that all cords could be any length up to 36".
> 
> Very poorly worded question. The exception are generally not used on these exams-- at least that is what many good test takers have told me. They are looking for the general rule.


Hmmm.. Just kidding.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Hmmm.. Just kidding.


You can gloat.--I would.. I still disagree with the writers. Their intent did not make it IMO. 

You can't look at the statement made in C and say it isn't true. All C is saying is that the cord can't be longer than 36" . It does not say any length up to 36" inches.


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## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

Seems like your electrical standards book is just as confusing as ours in Oz(As3000) But I would say "A" aswell.....


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Aussielec said:


> Seems like your electrical standards book is just as confusing as ours in Oz(As3000) But I would say "A" aswell.....


The book is confusing but this is a problem with the people who wrote the test. Not sure where the test came from .


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## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The book is confusing but this is a problem with the people who wrote the test. Not sure where the test came from .


Agreed, but it seems to be a bit of both in this case....both the wording of the question and how someone interprets your electrical standards....From what I've read in this post I can't see how it would be "C".....


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Aussielec said:


> From what I've read in this post I can't see how it would be "C".....



I understand what they are saying but it is assuming when one says the cord cannot be greater than 3' one is saying that the cord can be any length up to 3'. Now that is false as the cord must be at least 18".

By saying the cord cannot be greater than 3' does not mean it can be less than 24". That is the second part of what is required.

I have always argued that if there is an exception then it must be used to answer the question. Many people agreed with me but stated that on exams it is not usually the case. I never did well with test taking and these guys were good test takers so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I guess it boils down to how the test maker looks at it.

I will add that it is very difficult to make a good test that is perfectly clear.


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## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

Ahhh....I see now....
"C" is saying less than 36" but isn't specifying how short it could be.... so it could be 2", 5", 10" which isn't permitted.....what a stupid question. 

Imho someone needs to fire that author......


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You can gloat.--I would.. I still disagree with the writers. Their intent did not make it IMO.
> 
> You can't look at the statement made in C and say it isn't true. All C is saying is that the cord can't be longer than 36" . It does not say any length up to 36" inches.


I agree it should have been A, but to much wording was left out.


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

Hmmm... seems like quite a bit of debate over a single test question.

I would agree with C as the correct answer, reading the question and the code rule as posted. While C is correct in _any_ situation(thou shalt not ever have a cord length exceeding 36"), there is an exception to A, which makes it only correct in some(perhaps most) situations. Universally correct trumps sometimes - or mostly - correct in any case. I would also agree that the question is poorly worded, and props to Traveller to contacting the author and drawing his attention to confusing wording. However, it is also true that when unsure, Check Charlie.

However, in my opinion, one wrong answer on a test is hardly worth arguing about. If that single incorrect answer causes you to fail the test, chances are you shouldn't be advancing anyway, because you need some more time on the concept(I'm not trying to suggest that you're in that boat, Traveller, don't misconstrue what I'm saying).

And now, I will attempt to ask my own trick question without picking a fight.

Why is this question posted in the "Tools, Equipment, and New Products" section? Which would be the more appropriate location for this question?

A) Residential Electrical Forum
B) NEC Code Forum
C) Code Violation Forum
D) Alternative Energy Forum


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

CanadianBrad said:


> Hmmm... seems like quite a bit of debate over a single test question.
> 
> If that single incorrect answer causes you to fail the test, chances are you shouldn't be advancing anyway, because you need some more time on the concept(I'm not trying to suggest that you're in that boat, Traveller, don't misconstrue what I'm saying).


That is not the point. Often there are many questions like this on a test and that can become a problem. If 75 is passing and you fail even by one that can mean whether someone gets a license or not. By saying you shouldn't get the license because you missed this question is not fair.



> Why is this question posted in the "Tools, Equipment, and New Products" section? Which would be the more appropriate location for this question?


It's been moved


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## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

CanadianBrad said:


> Hmmm... seems like quite a bit of debate over a single test question.
> 
> I would agree with C as the correct answer, reading the question and the code rule as posted. While C is correct in _any_ situation(thou shalt not ever have a cord length exceeding 36"), there is an exception to A, which makes it only correct in some(perhaps most) situations. Universally correct trumps sometimes - or mostly - correct in any case. I would also agree that the question is poorly worded, and props to Traveller to contacting the author and drawing his attention to confusing wording. However, it is also true that when unsure, Check Charlie.
> 
> ...


I did not even realize that there are separate sections for posting stuff...I am relatively new to "Electrician Talk" and that was only my second time posting anything...My bad


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is not the point. Often there are many questions like this on a test and that can become a problem. If 75 is passing and you fail even by one that can mean whether someone gets a license or not. By saying you shouldn't get the license because you missed this question is not fair.
> 
> 
> It's been moved


*Dennis:* And if there are several questions like this on a test, it should be called to attention. If there is one oddly-worded question(and the OP mentioned only one strange one), and it's the make-or-break point for getting licensed or not, then in my personal opinion, you would benefit from going back and doing some more homework, then repeating the test. In my opinion, someone should definitely not have to worry about getting one oddly-worded question right to get their license. To be licensed, you should pass with a comfortable margin. That's just my opinion, and is no way directing criticism at the OP. If you did fail by one question, then it's perfectly fair to have to re-test for your license. Also my opinion.

Thanks for moving this.

*Traveller:* Don't interpret me as trying to criticize. Welcome to the forum. But I suggest reading the rules of the site and exploring a little before beginning to post, so that your post ends up in the right place, and receives attention by people in the proper area. Welcome to the forum. I've really started to enjoy it here, and learned quite a bit.

I just have an inner wiseass, dying to get out, and it happens from time to time.


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## Traveller (Jun 24, 2011)

CanadianBrad said:


> *Dennis:* And if there are several questions like this on a test, it should be called to attention. If there is one oddly-worded question(and the OP mentioned only one strange one), and it's the make-or-break point for getting licensed or not, then in my personal opinion, you would benefit from going back and doing some more homework, then repeating the test. In my opinion, someone should definitely not have to worry about getting one oddly-worded question right to get their license. To be licensed, you should pass with a comfortable margin. That's just my opinion, and is no way directing criticism at the OP. If you did fail by one question, then it's perfectly fair to have to re-test for your license. Also my opinion.
> 
> Thanks for moving this.
> 
> ...


No worries...I welcome criticism but just to clarify...this question was from a practice test. I am taking my journeyman's test on Saturday and I am in study mode right now. I purchased a book with practice tests questions to help me prepare. It is actually a pretty good book it's just that I was so convinced that the author was wrong on this question that I emailed him and we started going back and forth. He was saying he is right and I was saying he was wrong so I decided to put it on the forum to see what other's think. After the author explained why "C" was the correct answer I emailed him back and thanked him and told him I was wrong and decided to share that with the forum as well. That's all


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

Traveller said:


> No worries...I welcome criticism but just to clarify...this question was from a practice test. I am taking my journeyman's test on Saturday and I am in study mode right now. I purchased a book with practice tests questions to help me prepare. It is actually a pretty good book it's just that I was so convinced that the author was wrong on this question that I emailed him and we started going back and forth. He was saying he is right and I was saying he was wrong so I decided to put it on the forum to see what other's think. After the author explained why "C" was the correct answer I emailed him back and thanked him and told him I was wrong and decided to share that with the forum as well. That's all


Hopefully you nail the real test, regardless of "creatively worded" questions. I'm impressed that you followed through and contacted the writer. Very cool.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

CanadianBrad said:


> Hmmm... seems like quite a bit of debate over a single test question.
> 
> I would agree with C as the correct answer, reading the question and the code rule as posted. While C is correct in _any_ situation(thou shalt not ever have a cord length exceeding 36"), there is an exception to A, which makes it only correct in some(perhaps most) situations. Universally correct trumps sometimes - or mostly - correct in any case. I would also agree that the question is poorly worded, and props to Traveller to contacting the author and drawing his attention to confusing wording. However, it is also true that when unsure, Check Charlie.
> 
> However, in my opinion, one wrong answer on a test is hardly worth arguing about. If that single incorrect answer causes you to fail the test, chances are you shouldn't be advancing anyway, because you need some more time on the concept(I'm not trying to suggest that you're in that boat, Traveller, don't misconstrue what I'm saying).


1 wrong answer of this type would be a technicality and the objector would fail, most likely with an appeal.
Here in the states,they tend to 'Scale' exams. Anyone who fails gets a 69% (70% passing). In my 30 yrs I have also seen the number of passes and fails coincide with the demand for tradesmen (economy).

So 1 question could make or break, for several scenarios.

I also think it is GREAT that he brought this issue up to the writers.
Even if he Aced the exam.

I also would have gone with 'A' Non grounded cord cap- exception not considered. Double insulated was not specifically mentioned so there fore not considered or assumed.

'C' - not longer than 36", with out the caveat of a min to max, would not be considered in my mind.

After the explanation, I can some how understand the answer.

Could be written better.


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

leland, I would agree regarding the way the question is worded. However, with answer A, there is an exception in the code rule, which is not addressed by the question. However, the code rule specifies in no uncertain terms that the cord shall never exceed 36 inches, which makes it universally correct.

I've always been pretty solid on my pass/fail standards. If you require 70 out of a hundred questions correct to pass, and you only get 69 right, it would definitely be my opinion that whether or not you can make a legitimate argument on the poorly-worded question, you'd be a better electrician if you went back and hit the books, spent some more time studying and learning, and re-tested, hopefully scoring a significantly higher mark, making that 1 screwed-up question insignificant. If I were to score a 69, I'd probably be annoyed, but mostly with myself, and would go back, hit the books, and go back in to ace the test.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

ans...A...read the question and ans slowly....this is a stupid way to test a persons knowledge...it is electricity not a murder case....wtf...tester should get punched for being stupid...dont play word games....some body who knows the trade could fail this test based on 1 stupid question...word games belong in English class...


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

Perhaps someone(Traveller) should direct the attention of the author to this discussion. We have a large group of tradespeople here who have made legitimate points for both sides. It'd be worth it to e-mail him a link to this discussion.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

I bet he beats his meat thinking about how many people he confused on his electrical test questions.

Only a azshole would try to confuse people when dealing with electricity.

This test crap should be cut and dry, IMO.

It should be word for word out of the book.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Aussielec said:


> Ahhh....I see now....
> "C" is saying less than 36" but isn't specifying how short it could be.... so it could be 2", 5", 10" which isn't permitted.....what a stupid question.
> 
> Imho someone needs to fire that author......


 If that's really the answer, that's ********.

I've re-read that question enough times that I feel like an idiot, and the answer still looks like "A" to me.

-John


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Traveller said:


> I am preparing to take a journeyman's electrical test so I bought a book that has some practice test questions. I came across the question below. The answer key gives "C" as the correct answer. The reference is 422.16(B)(1)
> I emailed the author and asked if maybe he had made a mistake because I think the correct answer should be choice "A". He emailed back and said he guarantees all the answers in the book and that I am missing the trick in the answer. We have been going back and forth and he wont admit he is wrong. I think he is full of crap...What say you?? Am I missing something here or is "A" the correct answer to the question below?
> 
> Which of the following is not permitted if an electric kitchen waste disposer is to be cord and plug connected?[/b]
> ...


 
With all the answers given, this needs to become a poll.


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

Dnkldorf said:


> I bet he beats his meat thinking about how many people he confused on his electrical test questions.
> 
> Only a azshole would try to confuse people when dealing with electricity.
> 
> ...


I don't know about word for word from the code book. Questions/answers taken word for word from the book don't necessarily challenge the thought process of the testing electrician, it's just about who can remember the most out of the code book and spew it back to the testing body. The missing information makes you think. Just because you can recite code information word for word doesn't mean that you can apply it in a practical sense.

It's a poorly worded question, but I do agree with the principle of intentionally leaving some information out of the question, because that is often what you will encounter in the real world. We know that answer C is universally correct, because under no circumstances can a plug-in garbeurator have a cord longer than thirty-six inches. However, we know that it may or may not have a grounding plug, depending on cord insulation. So, if you know nothing of the garbeurator in question, and have not seen it(example: Talking to an uneducated customer on the phone), we don't know if it is up-to-code or not. However, while we are asking our uneducated customer a number of questions, we can ask them to measure their cord. And we know that anything over thirty-six inches is a violation. If that customer says "I have no idea what a double-insulated cord is, but I know my measuring tape says the cord is forty-eight inches," we know right away that it is a code violation. However, if that customer says, "I don't know what a double-insulated cord is, but I do know what a grounding plug is, and this cord does not have a grounding plug," we don't know whether or not that item is in violation of the code, and won't know until we inspect the cord.

In that sense, the lack of information in the question is, in my opinion, actually a good thing. It forces you to think outside one specific code rule and consider other possibilities.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Which of the following is not permitted if an electric kitchen waste disposer is to be cord and plug connected?[/b]

A. The flexible cord is terminated without a grounding type attachment plug
B. The receptacle is located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
C. The flexible cord has a length not greater than 36 inches.
D. The flexible cord has a length of 24 inches

I feel the need to refresh this post. (Brad, if you wrote this question own up. ) 
#1- the responses have been based on the NEC, not the CEC.
With that said, not sure of the differences. (I can't keep up with the NEC and local codes sometimes )

A- no mention of double insulated equipment. not dbl insulated- NOT Permitted. ground plug required.

B- no physical damage potential- ALLOWED.
C- Flex cord NOT GREATER THAN 36"- ALLOWED
D- Flex cord OF 24" - ALLOWED.

If I got a 69% or a 99% I would question this question.

But then again,we tend to scale and they don't release the wrong answers to you. :whistling2::no:
That is where the economy comes in. They don't want to flood the market.

I digress- I'll stop.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

CanadianBrad said:


> 1_It's a poorly worded question, but I do agree with the principle of intentionally leaving some information out of the question, because that is often what you will encounter in the real world.
> 
> 2_In that sense, the lack of information in the question is, in my opinion, actually a good thing. It forces you to think outside one specific code rule and consider other possibilities.



#1- In the 'Real world', you are faced with choices.
You know- this cord MUST be between 18" and 36".

#2- In order to make an educated decision, you need information.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Not being an electrician, I will ask what will probably be deemed a few stupid questions.

1. What is the significance of the 36" cord rule?

2. What is the greater safety concern, the length of the cord or the grounding issue?


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

leland said:


> Which of the following is not permitted if an electric kitchen waste disposer is to be cord and plug connected?[/b]
> 
> A. The flexible cord is terminated without a grounding type attachment plug
> B. The receptacle is located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
> ...


I'm not sure what question you refer to that I wrote up, but if my name is attached to it, I probably did.

I am aware of this being an NEC discussion. I initially noticed this discussion in Tools and Equipment, and thought it might be interesting to follow. I'm just a geek like that.:whistling2:

It's true, in the original question, there is no mention of double insulation. That forces the consideration of universally correct rules. We know that for answer A, that the appliance in question must have EITHER a grounding plug or double insulation. If it is double insulated, there is no requirement for a grounding plug. Agreed?

If so, we know that answer A is not universally correct. Therefore, we'll consider the other answer, C. Answer C specifies that no cord length may exceed 36". We know that there is a code rule that regulates cord length, and that one of the parameters of that rule prevents cord length from exceeding 36". There has also been no mention of a rule overriding answer C. Therefore, we can determine that answer C is universally correct.

If you're interested, I have zero knowledge of the NEC. I have learned the code rule quoted by Traveller, and I have learned that there is a stipulation that bypasses the need for a grounding plug. I have based my answer here on that information. I have simply followed this discussion because I'm naturally drawn to polarizing discussions, and there has been a good point made for both sides.

It's a shame they don't show you your test results. That seems criminal in and of itself.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

CanadianBrad said:


> I'm not sure what question you refer to that I wrote up, but if my name is attached to it, I probably did.
> 
> I am aware of this being an NEC discussion. I initially noticed this discussion in Tools and Equipment, and thought it might be interesting to follow. I'm just a geek like that.:whistling2:
> 
> ...


........


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## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

CanadianBrad said:


> I'm not sure what question you refer to that I wrote up, but if my name is attached to it, I probably did.
> 
> I am aware of this being an NEC discussion. I initially noticed this discussion in Tools and Equipment, and thought it might be interesting to follow. I'm just a geek like that.:whistling2:
> 
> ...


 
Bottom line is we are studying to become electrcians not laywer's.. I do not appreciate trying to decipher someone's cryptic message on an electricians test...

With electrical it's all black and white no shades grey, you either know it or you don't simple...


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*OFFICIAL-(un-official) answer-*

So... I gave 'Cuddles' (my female spousal equivalent), a copy of the question and the answers. And a 2008 NEC book.

Now, She is a rocket scientist (really), also started out as an annalist in the field (hers), minor in law.

Her opinion after seeing the facts, information and choices:

'A' and 'C' should be considered correct. 
Reason being they each have an exception that will render them in compliance or not. 
There was not enough (lack of) information given in the question to render either incorrect.

So, her rational was: If they don't get specific- then either can be 'Interpreted' as correct, based on the information at hand.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Aussielec said:


> Bottom line is we are studying to become electrcians not laywer's.. I do not appreciate trying to decipher someone's cryptic message on an electricians test...
> 
> With electrical it's all black and white no shades grey, you either know it or you don't simple...




CAN I GET AN AHHHMEN!!!!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## CanadianBrad (Feb 9, 2012)

Aussielec said:


> Bottom line is we are studying to become electrcians not laywer's.. I do not appreciate trying to decipher someone's cryptic message on an electricians test...
> 
> With electrical it's all black and white no shades grey, you either know it or you don't simple...


I wouldn't argue with that. But have you ever tried talking to a customer who knows enough to be "dangerous", but doesn't have all the facts? Or had a crappy, less-than-helpful drawing in a panel, with only part of the info you need?

I'm also interested in the legal-studied response. However, we'll have to agree to disagree here. Without all the facts, in a testing situation, I think you'll be right more often than not by choosing the answer that is universally correct, without a given exception.

However, there is a somewhat-related discussion regarding a Master's test. While discussing storage in electrical rooms, there is mention of minimum clearances, and a brief discussion regarding clearances for a panel. On the Master's test, the correct answer was "1 meter clearance on all sides". However, it was pointed out that this becomes a free-floating panel, hovering 1 meter from the floor, wall, and ceiling. Obviously not practicable in any sense, but the "right answer" nonetheless.

I'm not sure about the States, but it is worth pointing out that in Canada, the Electrical Code is a legal document, and electricians are required to understand the code. Written in legalese, definitely, but we are required to be able to interpret it.

Anyway, I personally think that this has been an interesting debate of points. Now, before it degrades into something ugly, I'm done with it. Thanks for this one, folks.


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