# pipe through trim



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

We cut a 2" hole, and piped through the trim return today>>>>











So, would you have done it this way, or gone around it?

What does your poco ahj say.....?

~CS~


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

What's wrong with 2" rigid through the roof with the service built right around the corner to the right?


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

480sparky said:


> What's wrong with 2" rigid through the roof with the service built right around the corner to the right?



No doubt. 


Sent from my house using the binary system!


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Looks like metal roof. Whats the correct way to seal and penetrate that? Haven't done that before.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Looks like metal roof. Whats the correct way to seal and penetrate that? Haven't done that before.


I would have run a rigid service mast straight up as well even though its a metal roof. They make a proper roof jack/flashing kit for that on a metal roof.


Since you went the way you did though CS.......I see no major issue with breaking through the return trim, as long as it doesn't cause water leakage into the roof or walls. Its not for support and its merely a raceway for the service conductors.


BTW........I see you still haven't called an electrician yet.:laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> Looks like metal roof. Whats the correct way to seal and penetrate that? Haven't done that before.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

nrp3 said:


> Looks like metal roof. Whats the correct way to seal and penetrate that? Haven't done that before.


Don't penetrate on the seams and use metal roof jack with sealing screws


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Why not just 45ish along the siding instead of following the take trim? Could be painted to match and no holes necessary.

Pete


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> What's wrong with 2" rigid through the roof with the service built right around the corner to the right?


Only because they're going to redo the roof, and didn't want to bother with it.....~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> Why not just 45ish along the siding instead of following the take trim? Could be painted to match and no holes necessary.
> 
> Pete


That was option #2 Pete. 

Most of the local poco's like to see the whole service entrance on the building, i guess they figure bad thinks happen when they are buried or unseen. I didn't ask permission to _'cheat'_ the whole 1.5" of return trim here....~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Rollie73 said:


> > Since you went the way you did though CS.......I see no major issue with breaking through the return trim, as long as it doesn't cause water leakage into the roof or walls. Its not for support and its merely a raceway for the service conductors.
> 
> 
> Well i might get _spanked yet _Rollie:jester:....as to support, the clips are all plastic , some '_boxed out_' with shallow strut . plastic on plastic is kosher for _expansion_, but i gotta imagine strut clips would secure better than a plastic clip....
> ...


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Maybe get the homeowners, Power Company and inspectors opinion then come up with a consensus for your run.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

I guess an underground service was out of the question?

Most of the local poco's like to see the whole service entrance on the building, i guess they figure bad thinks happen when they are *buried* or unseen. I didn't ask permission to _'cheat'_ the whole 1.5" of return trim here....~CS~ 

Hmm...best place if installed right is buried imo.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Bird dog said:


> I guess an underground service was out of the question?


Yeah, usually 2-3X's an OH Bird Dog.....~CS~


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> We cut a 2" hole, and piped through the trim return today>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, if my guys did that they would be tearing it out. No way I would let an older home with that kind of architecture be torn up like that. Nobody would be fired but that wouldn't know it for a day or two.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

A lot of work went into that. I would have followed the porch roof line until I could shoot straight up just missing the roof line you drilled through and continue the run to where you stopped it. Would have saved substantial fitting time.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> Only because they're going to redo the roof, and didn't want to bother with it.....~CS~



You've already run through the roof, so they still have to bother with it.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> You've already run through the roof, so they still have to bother with it.


Yes, but just paint 480....

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

jw0445 said:


> A lot of work went into that. I would have followed the porch roof line until I could shoot straight up just missing the roof line you drilled through and continue the run to where you stopped it. Would have saved substantial fitting time.


It's probably hard to see, but it was either drill through the _'return trim'_, drill through the _'porch roof'_ , or make a big noodle outta it all.....:laughing:










~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Honestly, if my guys did that they would be tearing it out. No way I would let an older home with that kind of architecture be torn up like that. Nobody would be fired but that wouldn't know it for a day or two.


Well when i grow up , i plan on being an electrician .....~CS~:thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> Yes, but just paint 480....
> 
> ~CS~


But you still had to deal with sealing it up.


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## Monkeyboy (Jul 28, 2012)

Not the nicest way to do it on such a nice house. It really stands out. Upper roof penetration is usually preferred around this area. But, you have to make do with what you can.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> It's probably hard to see, but it was either drill through the _'return trim'_, drill through the _'porch roof'_ , or make a big noodle outta it all.....:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1-WTF is that sticking out of the chimney?
2-Does this house really need a 200a service?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

IslandGuy said:


> 1-WTF is that sticking out of the chimney?


I'd say a new furnace is going in, and the chimney needs a new liner.



IslandGuy said:


> 2-Does this house really need a 200a service?


Maybe it's still a duplex. Note the existing pair of meters.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Yes it's actually two new furnaces, ,14 beds _(deemed 'hotel' by state regs after so many beds btw)_,ADA bath, hot tub, pool hall, full sprinkler,FA, commercial kitchen w/ansul , hot & cold running women..... it's another skibunny lodge, the typical entrepreneur's reno for the area....~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Paint it. Becomes a distant memory. Thanks for the info on the steel roof penetration.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Now see _that's_ the thing....OUR trade's work is beautiful ,elegant , makes the entire property stand up and say _'look at me'_...:thumbsup:

That pipe is so straight , and clips perfectly measured that the tax assessor _upped' the ante' _50K ....:laughing:

And you lot of _armpits_ want to talk architectural damage ......:whistling2:

It's ART, pure electrical *ART* !!!!!!!!.......:thumbup:~CS~:thumbup:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Now see that's the thing....OUR trade's work is beautiful ,elegant , makes the entire property stand up and say 'look at me'.. It's ART, pure electrical ART !!!!!!!!.......:thumbup:~CS~:thumbup:


I agree,,,,,,,, except for the unistrut.


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## FWW56 (Oct 29, 2008)

Why did you have to move the point of attachment up into the gable to begin with? It looks like you have the clearances you need at the bottom of the main roof gutter where the original POA is.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

FWW56 said:


> Why did you have to move the point of attachment up into the gable to begin with? It looks like you have the clearances you need at the bottom of the main roof gutter where the original POA is.


Maybe be legal for what you can see in the photo, but we don't know what the service drop crosses on it's way from the pole.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The particular poco alles the shots for placement & elevation FWW.

All metering are to be on gable ends , despite most vintage setups being otherwise......

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Inspection @ 9 today....:whistling2:

i pass, i get $$$....:thumbup:

no pass, no eat....:no:

back up plan>>>>




 :laughing:~CS~:jester:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Inspection @ 9 today....:whistling2:
> 
> i pass, i get $$$....:thumbup:
> 
> no pass, no eat....:no::laughing:~CS~:jester:


So if you do electrical work to eat what gig do you do for the "top shelf"?:jester:

Pete


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I hate seeing unistrut on service risers on dwelllings. In my mind, that is fine on industrial warehouses in the industrial sections of town. Of course I also own all the bending equipment and for me it is only a hassle getting the equipment out from behind all the other crap piled up on it in my shop. That and threading together conduits with bends in it. My original vocational school instructor used to tell us - '' offset and run it to the surface as much as possible and be a real electrician. When you cannot- use the sissy bar''.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

What? No expansion fittings?:whistling2:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> So if you do electrical work to eat what gig do you do for the "top shelf"?:jester:
> 
> Pete


I'm a _starving artist_ on the side Pete....:laughing::thumbup:


*I see a pipe run and I want it painted black
No color clashes I want them to turn black
I see GC's walk by and claim my pipe run blows
They just mess up my head with all these power woes

I see a line of pipes and they're all painted black
With ruined architecture never to come back
I see people turn their heads and quickly look away
Like all heavy up's it just happens ev'ry day

I look inside myself and see my heart is black
I see a red pipe I must have it painted black
Maybe then I'll fade away and not have to face the facts
It's not easy facin' up, when your whole world is hack

Hmm, hmm, hmm Hmm, hmm, hmm
Hmm, hmm, hmm Hmm, hmm, hmm*

~C(w/apologies to the Stones)S~:jester:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> What? No expansion fittings?:whistling2:


Good point!

Would i need them if the run is not captive to two _fixed_ points?

~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I see them occasionally on risers and wondered why. Maybe on the first vertical span of yours but not likely on the angle.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

[QUOTE. All metering are to be on gable ends , despite most vintage setups being otherwise......



~CS~[/QUOTE]


Why? Do the risers have to be that high?


Sent from my house using the binary system!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Service Call said:


> [QUOTE. All metering are to be on gable ends , despite most vintage setups being otherwise......
> 
> 
> 
> ~CS~





> Why? Do the risers have to be that high?
> 
> 
> Sent from my house using the binary system!


They don't by art 230 SC , the local poco is run by napoleans descendants....



~C:jester:S~


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## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

Was it possible to make the connections under the roof under hang? I am curious as to why it has to be in such a weird place. In my area usually all the connections are made under the roof under hang on the corner then piped down or across and then down. I seldom see roof penetrations and think they might be one of the ugliest damn things you could do to a house and I seldom see connections made in such an open area as you did in the front of the house. Here almost everything is on the side corner either in the front or back of the house but usually never on the front middle, odd to me.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

You mean were the old one's seen that have _existed_ since the FDR administration Bob? :whistling2:

By art 230 yes , pole is on property , crosses the lawn so 230.24B (2) *12'* would apply getting the OH drop there 

However the _'porch roof_' which is accessible by inebriated hordes of scantily clad skibunnies looking to publicly pole dance on service utility risers is a consideration in these parts....:no:

ergo the *12'* rule again>>>>



*(A) Above Roofs. * Conductors shall have a vertical clear-
ance of not less than 2.5 m (8 ft) above the roof surface. 
The vertical clearance above the roof level shall be main-
tained for a distance of not less than 900 mm (3 ft) in all 
directions from the edge of the roof.

_*Exception No.1:* The area above a roof surface subject to 
pedestrian pole dancer activity shall have a vertical clear-
ance from the roof surface in accordance with the clear-
ance requirements of* 230.24( B). *_

~CS~


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

So.....bottom line......do you get to eat next week or not? Yay or nay from the AHJ?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

bobbarker said:


> Was it possible to make the connections under the roof under hang? I am curious as to why it has to be in such a weird place. In my area usually all the connections are made under the roof under hang on the corner then piped down or across and then down. I seldom see roof penetrations and think they might be one of the ugliest damn things you could do to a house and I seldom see connections made in such an open area as you did in the front of the house. Here almost everything is on the side corner either in the front or back of the house but usually never on the front middle, odd to me.


It looks odd because in most socioeconomic demographics, what CS did here would be unacceptable just from a visual standpoint. Most would go underground if this were the only overhead alternative. But this particular install isn't near as bad as one of his 400a multi-family heavy-ups a while back.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Rollie73 said:


> So.....bottom line......do you get to eat next week or not? Yay or nay from the AHJ?


AHJ said spark 'er up!....a reprieve for this old bird to _wing it_ again Rollie! :thumbup:

~CS~


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## Bogart (Jul 20, 2015)

on a house looking that nice I would try and talk the homeowner into powder coating some emt and other enclosures to match the trim


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Bogart said:


> on a house looking that nice I would try and talk the homeowner into powder coating some emt and other enclosures to match the trim


What that house is really screaming for is a service using se cable instead of all that ugly hardware. Everything has its place, and that front yard is not the place for an ugly assed 2'' riser like the picture. Se cable. This is your mactip of the day!


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Correct me if I'm wrong CS, to sum up the whole thread, you had to do it that way because underground costs 2-3 times as much( the only 2 real options).


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Services and equipment on buildings is just a fact of life. Look at the ugly ass air conditioners and phone boxes and transformers everywhere. We just look around that stuff to see the beauty of the building.

Imagine how ugly the pipework would have been if he had to wag around that return?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Bird dog said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong CS, to sum up the whole thread, you had to do it that way because underground costs 2-3 times as much( the only 2 real options).


You are correct....

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> What that house is really screaming for is a service using se cable instead of all that ugly hardware. Everything has its place, and that front yard is not the place for an ugly assed 2'' riser like the picture. Se cable. This is your mactip of the day!


I _can_ find 250kcmil SE*R*, but _not_ 250Kcmil SE_*U*_ Mac

~CS~


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## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

"However the 'porch roof' which is accessible by inebriated hordes of scantily clad skibunnies looking to publicly pole dance on service utility risers is a consideration in these parts.... "

It has no door though so one would have to climb through a window in order to be on the roof, guess your poco is over reaching to protect stupid people 

I still don't understand why the point of connection couldn't be made closer to the window on the side of the house, piped over closer to the edge and then down where the old one is. Only need 3 foot clearance from the window for "open conductors" and there is an exception if the connection is made above the top of the window if they try to include the drip loop as an open conductor and a conduit makes the point mute since they would not be open conductors if the span was less than 3 feet from the window when it went down the side of the house and there is an exception 4 in 230.24b stating the requirement for maintaining the vertical clearance 3 feet from the edge of the roof shall NOT apply to the final conductor span where the service drop or overhead service conductors are attached to the side of a building. 
So if it was ran on the side then it would not be above the porch roof but around the corner from the porch roof thus making 230.24 8 foot rule not applicable


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

bobbarker said:


> "However the 'porch roof' which is accessible by inebriated hordes of scantily clad skibunnies looking to publicly pole dance on service utility risers is a consideration in these parts.... "
> 
> 
> 
> > It has no door though so one would have to climb through a window in order to be on the roof, guess your poco is over reaching to protect stupid people


Smaller municipal poco's have the knack of creating their _own _job security, even uppin' the NEC ante' Bob.

The windows you see are _huge_, enough so that a large man w/toolbelt can easily walk on out to the porch roof , which has a very slight pitch ,if any.

So they consider it accessible , even as a FF in an emergency scenario needing to enter _w/full battle regalia_ of course.... i've argued the point to no avail btw. 

~CS~


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