# Solve this service call



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Tanning salon installed a new bed. It quit working right after installation. Bed installer comes out and says the problem is electrical.

So:

400a Square D QOB panel has been installed for all the beds. Some are 3-phase, most are single phase. Panel label says 120/208 3ph 4-wire.

Bed has nameplate of 230volts, 31 amps. Previous electrician had installed a small buck/boost transformer in electrical room. According to wiring diagram, it has been connected correctly.

Voltage at receptacle next to bed:

L1-L2: 232v
L1-G: 112v
L2-G: 242v


:001_huh::001_huh::001_huh::001_huh::001_huh:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I would continue to question the connections at the buck boost as there are about a dozen diagrams for them.

I might also put a load on the circuit and take the measurements again to make sure you are not picking up ghosts. (Unless your meter loads the circuit already)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I would continue to question the connections at the buck boost as there are about a dozen diagrams for them.
> 
> I might also put a load on the circuit and take the measurements again to make sure you are not picking up ghosts. (Unless your meter loads the circuit already)



According to the manufacturer's installation instructions, there's 4 wiring diagrams.

Two are for 120v inputs, two others for 240v inputs.

The two output diagrams determine whether it's 12v or 24v on the secondary.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

What are the voltage readings at the panel (ahead of the Buck/Boost xfmer)?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> According to the manufacturer's installation instructions, there's 4 wiring diagrams.
> 
> Two are for 120v inputs, two others for 240v inputs.
> 
> The two output diagrams determine whether it's 12v or 24v on the secondary.


Those are not the diagrams for use as buck boost.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I think you would be looking for a diagram like Number 4 on this pdf.

http://www.jeffersonelectric.com/s3/site/pdf/Buckboost-wiring.pdf


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

EBFD6 said:


> What are the voltage readings at the panel (ahead of the Buck/Boost xfmer)?


L1-L2: 230v
L1-G: 120v
L2:G: 208v


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I think you would be looking for a diagram like Number 4 on this pdf.
> 
> http://www.jeffersonelectric.com/s3/site/pdf/Buckboost-wiring.pdf


I'm 99% sure that's the way it was wired. Different brand, and not the same layout, but the connections are the same.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

480sparky said:


> L1-L2: 230v
> L1-G: 120v
> L2:G: 208v


Uh oh


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

Maybe take off the wild leg and use the other leg?

Why is there a buck boost? You already have 230v there.

Panel ID wrong?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

347sparky said:


> Maybe take off the wild leg and use the other leg?
> 
> Why is there a buck boost? You already have 230v there.
> 
> Panel ID wrong?


Ding! Ding! Ding!

Took cover off panel, B phase is orange. Breaker is on B & C phases. So moved up 2 spaces to C & A phases, then bypass unneeded buck-boost.

Now for the owners to repair the electronics fried in the bed.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

480sparky said:


> L1-L2: 230v
> L1-G: 120v
> L2:G: 208v





480sparky said:


> Ding! Ding! Ding!
> 
> Took cover off panel, B phase is orange. Breaker is on B & C phases. So moved up 2 spaces to C & A phases, then bypass unneeded buck-boost.
> 
> Now for the owners to repair the electronics fried in the bed.


This is what I assumed.

I have seen this before where the equipment is 208 or 240 volt, but there is electronics inside looking for 120 volts to ground. Hooking up the high leg to the wrong phase will usually lead to rapid smoke evacuation.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

347sparky said:


> Maybe take off the wild leg and use the other leg?
> 
> Why is there a buck boost? You already have 230v there.
> 
> Panel ID wrong?


What, you shouldn't just take for granted that the guy before you labeled things correctly?

I hope you aren't suggesting people should use their brain and check the voltage themselves before hooking things up.:laughing:

That makes no sense at all.:no:

:whistling2:


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> What, you shouldn't just take for granted that the guy before you labeled things correctly?
> 
> I hope you aren't suggesting people should use their brain and check the voltage themselves before hooking things up.:laughing:
> 
> ...


Made that mistake years ago. Added a receptical for a guy and tapped off an existing one 25 feet away. Turned off the breaker, did my thing, turned it back on and used my receptical tester on it which read "ok". Got a call back that he burnt up a grinder and I screwed up somehow. Go back check the receptical with a meter, 208v. The tester was part of a circuit tracer and rated at 250v so it didn't burn up. Fixed it and labeled the panel as a wild leg panel in several places.


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## mikey383 (May 21, 2012)

When I first got in the field, a guy I worked with did that same thing. Installed a new circuit for about a dozen copy machines in an office. Landed the breaker on B phase. Didn't bother to check voltage. Turned on the circuit, and fried a dozen copiers. 

Oopsie.


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Tanning salon installed a new bed. It quit working right after installation. Bed installer comes out and says the problem is electrical.
> 
> So:
> 
> ...


that is real careless of the previous electrician. sad

after learning that, why was the wild leg brought down to a salon? differences of equiptment...? idk


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

WyeDelta said:


> that is real careless of the previous electrician. sad
> 
> after learning that, why was the wild leg brought down to a salon? differences of equiptment...? idk


What?? What else are they supposed to do with it?


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

WyeDelta said:


> that is real careless of the previous electrician. sad
> 
> after learning that, why was the wild leg brought down to a salon? differences of equiptment...? idk


 
My guess is the salon moved into an existing building.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

347sparky said:


> My guess is the salon moved into an existing building.


The salon has three phase equipment. I can still build high leg services in city of richmond up to 200 amps


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> What?? What else are they supposed to do with it?


sit on it
...
really dude? are you qualified to even be on the internet? 
i was asking a rhetorical question, hoping for a response consisting of useful information.
unlike you, asking a ******** question, and removing all doubt from my mind and others that you are a complete dunce. :thumbsup:


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The salon has three phase equipment. I can still build high leg services in city of richmond up to 200 amps


ooo cool beans bro! must be some kind of super engeneer.. ill tell you what you go ahead and build that 200 amps of wild leg, and ill tell ya what to do with it.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

WyeDelta said:


> sit on it
> ...
> really dude? are you qualified to even be on the internet?
> i was asking a rhetorical question, hoping for a response consisting of useful information.
> unlike you, asking a ******** question, and removing all doubt from my mind and others that you are a complete dunce. :thumbsup:


You dumb motherfuxker you asked why they took a high leg into a salon that has three phase equipment. How stupid do you have to be to even ask that question.?

And then come back with this response instead of admitting how ******** that was to say.


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The salon has three phase equipment. *I can still build high leg services* in city of richmond up to 200 amps


 
Why would you want to? Besides feeding all motor loads.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

WyeDelta said:


> ooo cool beans bro! must be some kind of super engeneer.. ill tell you what you go ahead and build that 200 amps of wild leg, and ill tell ya what to do with it.


Just stfu, you're sounding dumber and dumber


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

347sparky said:


> Why would you want to? Besides feeding all motor loads.


I've built a couple. One was because there were too many straight 240 loads that would have required buck-boosts. The other was a service change (worn out service equipment), for an existing high-leg service. Rather than investigate everything that would or would not run on 208, the high leg drop was re-used.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

347sparky said:


> Why would you want to? Besides feeding all motor loads.


I wouldnt. Im simply telling this guy how things work in the real world.


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

347sparky said:


> Why would you want to? Besides feeding all motor loads.



yeah man, exactally!:thumbup:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I had never seen one of these until I was on a nature walk outside of Charleston SC and saw one on an old abandoned pump house out in the woods. Could see the three phase drop, but only two pots on the pole, one smaller than the other.


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> I've built a couple. One was because there were too many straight 240 loads that would have required buck-boosts. The other was a service change (worn out service equipment), for an existing high-leg service. Rather than investigate everything that would or would not run on 208, the high leg drop was re-used.


That makes sense, I guess usually when I have built services the POCO already had determined that 120/208 3phase is what was available. All of the delta services are in the old industrial areas (almost abandoned) where I'm at.


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> I've built a couple. One was because there were too many straight 240 loads that would have required buck-boosts. The other was a service change (worn out service equipment), for an existing high-leg service. Rather than investigate everything that would or would not run on 208, the high leg drop was re-used.


well spoken bud, it sounded to me that the salon had retrofit the suite to accomidate there needs. 

it was a simple question that got taken way too far, and i value your answer. where im at you dont see that but rarely, i havent physically seen one myself but in textbooks, all of the factories and distribution facillities my company services has all been 120/208-240 del/y 277/480 240/480d i mean i have hooked eqpt. european with strange 3p voltages etc, but never physically seen the high leg in a panel


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

WyeDelta said:


> well spoken bud, it sounded to me that the salon had retrofit the suite to accomidate there needs.
> 
> it was a simple question that got taken way too far, and i value your answer. where im at you dont see that but rarely, i havent physically seen one myself but in textbooks, all of the factories and distribution facillities my company services has all been 120/208-240 del/y 277/480 240/480d i mean i have hooked eqpt. european with strange 3p voltages etc, but never physically seen the high leg in a panel


They're all over the place in my area. Mostly in older, industrial and commercial areas with overhead lines. Even if a service change is done to a building that is served with only two pots, unless there's some compelling reason to change it to a 208 service, the high leg drop stays. Nothing wrong with that. It just might be different than some electricians are used to working on. I'm sure that's a fact, judging on the number of calls I've ran where the previous electrician blew something up. Last one I remember was a new clothes dryer outlet. The installing electrician sorta forgot that these things are served with a neutral for a reason. Some of the internal loads are 120. Doesn't work so well when the leg that was going to be used inside the dryer for the 120 was clipped on the high leg pole.


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## WyeDelta (Jul 28, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> They're all over the place in my area. Mostly in older, industrial and commercial areas with overhead lines. Even if a service change is done to a building that is served with only two pots, unless there's some compelling reason to change it to a 208 service, the high leg drop stays. Nothing wrong with that. It just might be different than some electricians are used to working on. I'm sure that's a fact, judging on the number of calls I've ran where the previous electrician blew something up. Last one I remember was a new clothes dryer outlet. The installing electrician sorta forgot that these things are served with a neutral for a reason. Some of the internal loads are 120. Doesn't work so well when the leg that was going to be used inside the dryer for the 120 was clipped on the high leg pole.


well at least that dryer worked REALLY good for a few seconds :laughing: ive heard of that happening before just not here hah. and yes thank you for enlightening me on why people have to deal with high legs at least in your area, if theres not a reason tonvert to 208 they pull in the wild leg. sweet!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

WyeDelta said:


> it was a simple question that got taken way too far,


 
Soory dude, don't play MR. innocent now. This was your response to me for absolutely no reason.




WyeDelta said:


> sit on it
> ...
> really dude? are you qualified to even be on the internet?
> i was asking a rhetorical question, hoping for a response consisting of useful information.
> unlike you, asking a ******** question, and removing all doubt from my mind and others that you are a complete dunce. :thumbsup:


 

:blink::blink:


But that's ok, deep down I still have that warm feeling of knowing I am right:whistling2:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Soory dude,


wyedelta = Cletis to me.


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## DriveGuru (Jul 29, 2012)

"Red Leg Delta" Is used widely in Indiana as well, I think cause its cheaper for the power company supplying the transformers. It's hard to protect people from someone who should have put a meter on it first...Always Step 1...lol. I see allot of people blow up lighting that way.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> wyedelta = Cletis to me.


 
Oh damm, I have a dilemma then. I like Cletis, but not this guy. Does that give me multiple personalities too?


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