# Ticket transfer to different local question



## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Nope. Not unless you accumulate 2000 hours in the local.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Not sure it is that cut and dried. I think there are areas with different rules. Best bet is to go talk to the hall in the local you are interested in.


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## Lowjack (Nov 27, 2012)

Where is this written, I can't seem to find any guide lines regarding minimum hours of work on book 2. I'm currently number 1 (essentially) on book 1 in my home local and could get out there with in a week or two at most, so it is not about finding a local with more work. I grew up in this area and my parents still live and have a business here, so I have roots here. I've been back here for nearly 4 years now.


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## Lowjack (Nov 27, 2012)

henderson14 said:


> Nope. Not unless you accumulate 2000 hours in the local.


Don't worry, I'm not wanting to sign book 1 in 134.......and thank God I'm not, how many are on that book anyway, 300? The local I'm talking about has less than 100 on it's book 1. I would give you my book one status in my home local if it was permitted, I'm basically at the top, been riding it for nearly 9 years and it is only about 7 hours from you. That is just the kind of guy I am.


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

Lowjack said:


> Don't worry, I'm not wanting to sign book 1 in 134.......and thank God I'm not, how many are on that book anyway, 300? The local I'm talking about has less than 100 on it's book 1. I would give you my book one status in my home local if it was permitted, I'm basically at the top, been riding it for nearly 9 years and it is only about 7 hours from you. That is just the kind of guy I am.



I think thats the standard rule. There are about 2000 on book 1. It's all relative though because we have one of the largest locals in the country.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

henderson14 said:


> I think thats the standard rule. There are about 2000 on book 1. It's all relative though because we have one of the largest locals in the country.



No it's not that easy Brother. Actually it depends on the individual Local's By-Laws. Many Locals expressly forbid a Traveling Journeyman from being instated into that Local's A Division. (read as Book 1). Many of the larger cities Locals do not permit someone from actually BECOMING Book 1. 

Permanently working within a Local that is not your home local carries the term "FLEA". A flea is someone who is benefiting from the work opportunity in another local and stays there...ie: never goes back home. 

What you have to do first is have YOUR Employment Director contact the Local where you want to go work's Employment Director. He will find out for sure whether you actually can become instated into that Local's Book 1 or not. 

The reason you cannot find it anywhere is because it is part of the By-Laws (the little Rule Books everyone gets whenever there is a new contract) and they do not have the By-Laws in them. 

I hope that's helped and I wish you luck.


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## bartstop (Sep 30, 2012)

This is exactly the kind of thing that is causing the IBEW to decline. Even if the bylaws state you have to work 2000 hours in the local to sign book 1, they will fight you tooth and nail. I know of a guy that had to sue local 124 to sign the book even though he worked 5000+ hours. They don't even respect their own rules. So basically they expect you to sign book 2 and be a second class citizen the rest of your life. Then they wonder why so many people dislike unions. IMHO the entire referral needs to go. Right now it's at least a year to get out and the contractors know it. They can yell, scream and push the guys around because they know everyone will cower down. I've had my fill of it. My union days are coming to an end.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

I agree that changing the policy to allow a man to move during his lifetime and become a member of another local so that he doesn't have to sign book 2 (and possibly never work again) is important. But I don't see how getting rid of the referral system would work.


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## bartstop (Sep 30, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> I agree that changing the policy to allow a man to move during his lifetime and become a member of another local so that he doesn't have to sign book 2 (and possibly never work again) is important. But I don't see how getting rid of the referral system would work.


As far as I know, the IBEW is the only trade in Kansas City that has an exclusive referral. Every other trade can solicit their own work. I don't think it's a coincidence that our wages have fallen behind every other skilled trade. Another thing that I feel needs to go is the ban on union member contracting. Why not let the guys start their own and allow them to pay the dues and benefit package to themselves? At this point they've made it so difficult and expensive to start a shop who would want to even try? The existing contractors won't go after any of the smaller work. They've pretty much surrendered that market to the non-union. With so many members unemployed right now, I guarantee some of those small projects are being done by our guys. It's too bad the IBEW won't change their ways. They're refusal to change with the times is making them obsolete.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

bartstop said:


> As far as I know, the IBEW is the only trade in Kansas City that has an exclusive referral. Every other trade can solicit their own work.


 Then why have a union at all? It doesn't make sense. There are programs that some unions use to help, such as "Journeyman Recall" or "Solicit your own work" in which they allow referral for half of the manpower and personally solicited for the other half. But getting rid of the union "Hiring hall" completely just doesn't make sense.


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## bartstop (Sep 30, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> Then why have a union at all?.


What's the purpose of a union? To improve wages and working conditions correct? With that exclusive referral in place, the conditions have gone to ****. Everyone is so worried about signing the book (which guarantee's you a year of unemployment), they will do anything to keep their job. Brothers are turning on brothers to keep that paycheck coming. The guys are scared to death to even ask for ear plugs. Now that we have the CW/CE being forced on us, the wages are going to decrease also. What I see is the IBEW is no longer fulfilling it's purpose. It saddens me to say this but I don't really see a reason to continue my membership.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

bartstop said:


> What's the purpose of a union? To improve wages and working conditions correct?


 Yes, in some cases. But the purpose of a trade union like the IBEW is to also find the men jobs. 



> With that exclusive referral in place, the conditions have gone to ****.


 So get rid of the "exclusive" part like I said above. There are ways to do it without getting rid of the hiring hall aspect of the union.



> Everyone is so worried about signing the book (which guarantee's you a year of unemployment), they will do anything to keep their job. Brothers are turning on brothers to keep that paycheck coming. The guys are scared to death to even ask for ear plugs.


The same exact thing would happen if there was no referral system. Hell, it would be worse. Instead of the men worrying about signing a long referral list, they would have to worry about going out every day and applying for a job. Getting rid of the referral list wouldn't create more jobs, just as many men would be out of work for a year or longer.



> Now that we have the CW/CE being forced on us, the wages are going to decrease also. What I see is the IBEW is no longer fulfilling it's purpose. It saddens me to say this but I don't really see a reason to continue my membership.


I agree with this, CE/CW's should be killed, and not quickly either.


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## bartstop (Sep 30, 2012)

Dangerously said:


> So get rid of the "exclusive" part like I said above. There are ways to do it without getting rid of the hiring hall aspect of the union.
> 
> .


Yes, I agree. I didn't word my previous post very well.

From what I have been told, the other trades sign a book but can solicit their own work as well. 

CW/CE is on a ratio and only for certain types of work. If history is any indicator, the ratio will be gone soon. It's going to come to a point that the only work available will be at CW/CE scale. Our own union (International) is forcing a pay cut on to us. The future doesn't look too bright.


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## Dangerously (Dec 1, 2012)

bartstop said:


> Yes, I agree. I didn't word my previous post very well.
> 
> From what I have been told, the other trades sign a book but can solicit their own work as well.


 I don't agree with unlimited solicitation either. If you want that, go be a carpenter :laughing:


> CW/CE is on a ratio and only for certain types of work. If history is any indicator, the ratio will be gone soon. It's going to come to a point that the only work available will be at CW/CE scale. Our own union (International) is forcing a pay cut on to us. The future doesn't look too bright.


Agreed.


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