# Question?



## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

If a given fixture is rated for 60W. incandescent, what is the maximum size cfl I can use?


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

As large as you want. The ratings are based on the heat produced by an incandescent lamp. A compact fluorescent has an electronic ballast and produces very low heat.


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

egads said:


> As large as you want. The ratings are based on the heat produced by an incandescent lamp. A compact fluorescent has an electronic ballast and produces very low heat.


 
Thats what I thought. So as long as the cfl will fit, I am good to go. A new customer wants some old fixtures changed and does not want to spend a lot of money. Most "budget" fixtures are rated for 60W. I think a 100W. equivalent cfl would give him the light he needs.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

What is the largest CFL you can buy to fit that base?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

It is my opinion if the fixture is marked 60 watt incandescent then a incandescent must be used. The fixture has not been tested for CFL. If this is an enclosed fixture you can get a lot of heat so please don't say any size CFL will work. 

There is no real answer to your question, IMO.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Are you saying that a CFL puts off more heat than a incandescent?


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

No I think what he is saying that the millions of people that are going to the cfl's are wrong they should stick with incandescent lol


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> It is my opinion if the fixture is marked 60 watt incandescent then a incandescent must be used. The fixture has not been tested for CFL. If this is an enclosed fixture you can get a lot of heat so please don't say any size CFL will work.
> 
> There is no real answer to your question, IMO.


 I don't see much of a differance betyween types of lamps, besides heat and cfl's got incandescents beat big time. If it's rated 60 watt incan. I'm positve using a 100 watt, even a 150 watt (equivalent lumen output) cfl would be fine...they just don't get hot.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> I don't see much of a differance betyween types of lamps, besides heat and cfl's got incandescents beat big time. If it's rated 60 watt incan. I'm positve using a 100 watt, even a 150 watt (equivalent lumen output) cfl would be fine...they just don't get hot.


 What he said.


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

Here's a page that lists compact fluorescent wattage and their incandescent output equivalencies:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/2-to-200-W...Light-Bulbs/?gclid=CK2o24yxuZ4CFRlcagodyVQLkQ


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Are you saying that a CFL puts off more heat than a incandescent?


No I am saying that technically you are voiding the listing of a fixture if it states incandescent luminaire. It is an odd point but I believe there are were inspectors that have hit ec's on this .


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I was just thinking about this on my way home. I think I agree with Dennis that if it doesn't list a CFL it wasn't intended to have a CFL.


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## Old Spark (Nov 18, 2008)

Why all the talk about everybody changing to cfl then? Nobody is going to have old fixtures rated for cfl. The concern I have is......if it is an enclosed fixture, the cfl will overheat and burn out due to the build-in ballast. It needs air flow. The lamp doesn't get so hot, but the base does.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

David Channell said:


> Why all the talk about everybody changing to cfl then? Nobody is going to have old fixtures rated for cfl. The concern I have is......if it is an enclosed fixture, the cfl will overheat and burn out due to the build-in ballast. It needs air flow. The lamp doesn't get so hot, but the base does.


 as hot as a bare incandescent lamp? No.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> as hot as a bare incandescent lamp? No.


I have personally seen CFL's go into meltdown in an enclosed fixture. A lot of CFL's have warnings right on them to NOT use them in an enclosed fixture and the base needs to be pointed down, like in a table lamp.

~Matt


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## exploreralpha (Dec 7, 2009)

I personally despise CFL's. My son is Autistic, and I'm quite certain it came about from his MMR vaccine which had thimerosol (a mercury based preservative) in it. All the money and time I had to devote to bring this child from completely nonverbal to the wonderful bright, beautiful boy is because of a poison. That poison we are proposing to put in EVERYTHING. Even the computer I'm typing this on has Hg in it! When it comes to commercial installations, I have much less of a problem, because it's "usually" maintained by professionals, and there is much less chance of mercury exposure in such situations. I'm strongly an advocate for the maturation of LED technology, and until then, I'm 100% for incandescents. 

Aaron


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I have not really ever seen a fixture marked for an incandescent lamp only. I have, however, seen them marked for a certain lamp envelope shape (such as A-19 or R-30). They do make CFL's in the A-19 and R-30 shapes, I must point out. If the fixture is rated at a max of 60 watts... watts are watts. Put in up to a 60 watt CFL, if you like. If the fixture is also marked with a certain lamp shape, I also think you're hogtied into having to use that lamp shape; whether it be CFL or incandescent.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I have personally seen CFL's go into meltdown in an enclosed fixture. A lot of CFL's have warnings right on them to NOT use them in an enclosed fixture and the base needs to be pointed down, like in a table lamp.
> 
> ~Matt


I have too. I have experienced many early (and sometimes dramatic) lamp failures when CFL's are installed in the base up orientation.

I would like to add, though, that a CFL will pretty much only work in an enclosed outdoor fixture during cold weather. I really see very few early failures of CFL's that are installed outdoors.


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## bobbyho (Oct 15, 2007)

Aaron, I am with you. I have had this discussion with many of my "green" friends. The average CFL has 5mg of mercury in it. When I mention this, the argument I would get is that the average coal burning power plant utilizes 12mg of mercury to make electricity. Well, does that mean that the CFL's are getting their power from somewhere else? I am sure they are generating at least 3mg. Now the same people take them and stick them in a recessed light which they are not listed for and the lamp life dives. The incandescent on a dimmer and the lamp life increases. At the end of the day, 250 million households throwing CFL's into the garbage because they don't know any better is going to create a big time Erin Brokovich type of thing.


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## exploreralpha (Dec 7, 2009)

bobbyho said:


> Aaron, I am with you. I have had this discussion with many of my "green" friends. The average CFL has 5mg of mercury in it. When I mention this, the argument I would get is that the average coal burning power plant utilizes 12mg of mercury to make electricity. Well, does that mean that the CFL's are getting their power from somewhere else? I am sure they are generating at least 3mg. Now the same people take them and stick them in a recessed light which they are not listed for and the lamp life dives. The incandescent on a dimmer and the lamp life increases. At the end of the day, 250 million households throwing CFL's into the garbage because they don't know any better is going to create a big time Erin Brokovich type of thing.


LOL, perhaps someone should call her.


Aaron


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