# Is a trade certificate as good as a Journeyman ticket?



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Rora said:


> I'm in instrumentation and controls, and I'm considering jobs that have valuable experience but aren't registered apprenticeships. However, with enough hours/years of work experience it's possible to challenge for a trade certificate, and this can be used to challenge the Red Seal exam.
> 
> De jure, a trade certificate is equal to a journeyman ticket, but in reality, do employers see them the same? Would it ever hurt my chances later on down the line?
> 
> Would you take a job with highly valuable experience, even if it meant you would need to sacrifice some credentials? Any insight would be much appreciated.



Does the licensing authority for your area issue license's to holders of trade certificates? Those licenses are very valuable to employers since the lack of a proper trade license is generally a barrier to perform electrical field work.


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> Does the licensing authority for your area issue license's to holders of trade certificates? Those licenses are very valuable to employers since the lack of a proper trade license is generally a barrier to perform electrical field work.


In Canada, instrumentation is non-compulsory, so you don't need a license. Practically speaking, though, nearly every employer wants you to have a Journeyman ticket.

Just found out that it takes 8,775 hours to qualify for a trade certificate, vs. 5,850 through the apprenticeship program... kind of puts a damper on it.

I guess the question is, how much do you value experience over credentials? If a job gives you excellent exposure to a lot of the skills you want to master, but not much in terms of recognition for it, would you take it?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

It all depends on how young you are, and how many commitments you have. If you're in an apprenticeship now, you probably worked hard to get there, and I don't think they do "reservations" for a J-man card. Is this valuable experience, in something you can see yourself doing for the rest of your life? Are the opportunities worth the sacrifice?
An internet forum can't do for you, what you need to do for yourself. If you're heavily invested in instrumentation and controls, and an apprenticeship is an option, go for what you know.
Peace.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Red Seal means everything.


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

Alright, a bit to think about. Thanks for the advice guys.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I will just throw this in there… I have worked with plenty of “tradesmen” over the years and some of the most skilled guys did not have a “ticket”. Yes they were “old school” guys that could fix your car using a socket extension, an adjustable wrench and a can of spray lube. I have seen this in many trades, voluntary or compulsory, so that is a non-starter. What the issue is that most reputable employers; either through ignorance or policy, will always select the guy with the “ticket”.

I know a number of great guys in electrical that did not have a ticket and some my licensed guys could not hold a candle for them. Even where I value their experience so much, I could not do anything with them due to liability and other issues. I did offer them some “foreman” jobs, but they wanted to wear the tools and get stuff done. It got serious in 2007 (in Ontario) when the government legislated that only Licensed Electrical Contractors (LECs) could perform work in the province; that was the end for most of those guys. Fortunately they could “retire” and it did not affect them too much.

Cheers
John


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

As one electrician pointed out, a card doesn't mean you know what you are doing it just helps you to know what you are doing.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

To me it sounds like having that J-man card and the ability to take the Red Seal test is huge. 5,850 hours is less than 3 years of fulltime working so I'd start there and get that under your belt. Once that is accomplished go on to work in the niche of your choice knowing you have all your ducks in a row in licensing.


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