# 8 Cal coveralls is all thats needed 600v or less



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Was just informed that an 8 cal protection is ALL that's needed for EVERY thing 600 volts & less. 
It's a 3 phase 120/208 & 277/480 facility will lots of MCC's. 

Boy I will be superman when my new coveralls arrive. FML


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Did you bitch slap the genius that came to that conclusion or just..........


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Was just informed that an 8 cal protection is ALL that's needed for EVERY thing 600 volts & less.
> It's a 3 phase 120/208 & 277/480 facility will lots of MCC's.
> 
> Boy I will be superman when my new coveralls arrive. FML


 
Est-ce que vous êtes sérieux ??

{ Are you serious ?? }

Merci,
Marc


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

That, alone, won't even get you level 1.

The set-up that I carry includes the coveralls, balaclava, hard hat with face shield, and, of course, the gloves, and that only gets me to 2*, which is not actually enough to legally take the *cover* off of a 600V switchgear. If the cover was already open I still couldn't rack or unrack CBs from the gear.

2* will get you a long way, as long as every switchgear you meet has hinged doors.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I'd put together a little list of all the 70E rules that violates, and I'd find someone in management who seems reasonable and do my best to explain to them why that's as wrong as it could possibly be.

-John


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Mike in Canada said:


> That, alone, won't even get you level 1.
> 
> The set-up that I carry includes the coveralls, balaclava, hard hat with face shield, and, of course, the gloves, and that only gets me to 2*, which is not actually enough to legally take the *cover* off of a 600V switchgear. If the cover was already open I still couldn't rack or unrack CBs from the gear.
> 
> 2* will get you a long way, as long as every switchgear you meet has hinged doors.


In October 2* won't exist in the 70E, and it won't get you very far anyways on 480V systems. For the OP removing and installing MCC buckets is HRC 4, if the tables can even be used.


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## airfieldsparky (Jun 10, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> Was just informed that an 8 cal protection is ALL that's needed for EVERY thing 600 volts & less.
> It's a 3 phase 120/208 & 277/480 facility will lots of MCC's.
> 
> Boy I will be superman when my new coveralls arrive. FML


there is many 277/480 situations where a 40 cal isn't technically enough no way of telling without doing an arc flash hazard calc. not that I have ever done one myself but my boss recently had a cementex safety guy come in and brief us on our new arc flash gear


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

I take the time and interest into reading wirenuting's posts.

He posted a joke full of sarcasm, he just hasn't given us anymore details.


"Punked"


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

What does "*FML*" stand for anyhow? Sorry, don't keep up with that chit:laughing:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

76nemo said:


> I take the time and interest into reading wirenuting's posts.
> 
> He posted a joke full of sarcasm, he just hasn't given us anymore details.
> 
> "Punked"


There are no more details yet. 
It's a Mexican stand off. 
When the superman suits arrive, I'll hold it up to the A-Hole in our safety who told me that "It protects up to 600volts". 
It's messed up. I would rather cook then suffer if something goes bad. And I'm a very safe worker. 

Oh,, FML is an app were you post one line comments about things gone wrong.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Wirenuting said:


> There are no more details yet.
> It's a Mexican stand off.
> When the superman suits arrive, I'll hold it up to the A-Hole in our safety who told me that "It protects up to 600volts".
> It's messed up. I would rather cook then suffer if something goes bad. And I'm a very safe worker.
> ...


 
I knew your thread was sarcasm, not everyone did..................


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## al_smelter (Jan 25, 2011)

We are dead center in the middle of a million dollar arc flash study. Without the model even being finished yet, we already know that there are a few old bucket MCC's that we will not be able to approach the main WITH ANY LEVEL OF FRC's... Not even to trip it or energize it. We are now scrambling for a solution.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

al_smelter said:


> ...We are now scrambling for a solution.


 I continue to be amazed at how often management is totally blindsided by the results of arc flash studies. 

It's almost as though they believed that the only change the study would require was that a bunch of stickers would get put on things.

-John


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

al_smelter said:


> We are dead center in the middle of a million dollar arc flash study. Without the model even being finished yet, we already know that there are a few old bucket MCC's that we will not be able to approach the main WITH ANY LEVEL OF FRC's... Not even to trip it or energize it. We are now scrambling for a solution.


$1M?? I have done arc flash studies for some of the largest facilities in the country and nothing close to $1M. 

For your MCC's you have a few options, mitigation, which is easiest if you have a main breaker for an MCC, there are couple different, simple ways to acomplish this. 

If you don't have a main breaker remote bucket extraction and remote switching would be your best solution (The other is to set up zone selective interlocking, which is either hard, or very hard, depending on what you have in place already.


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## al_smelter (Jan 25, 2011)

There has bee little if any management at this site for, oh, about fifty years. We are so far behind the curve that everything is a giant struggle. That is why they hired me (along with a couple of engineers)... to ATTEMPT to bring this plant into some kind of compliance. It's a slow road with a thousand employees that have NEVER worried about safety. It is culture shock to them.

We expect the model to cost about 300K. The other 700K will be to BEGIN the task of updating some of these old decrepit subs and MCC's. 

Oh, and remote racking won't do you much good if you can't even open the cubicle door. We will probably begin with remote operating first.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

al_smelter said:


> There has bee little if any management at this site for, oh, about fifty years. We are so far behind the curve that everything is a giant struggle. That is why they hired me (along with a couple of engineers)... to ATTEMPT to bring this plant into some kind of compliance. It's a slow road with a thousand employees that have NEVER worried about safety. It is culture shock to them.


 It often is in a situation like that. 



al_smelter said:


> We expect the model to cost about 300K. The other 700K will be to BEGIN the task of updating some of these old decrepit subs and MCC's.


 That sounds more reasonable, thought you meant $1M for the mdoel. 



al_smelter said:


> Oh, and remote racking won't do you much good if you can't even open the cubicle door. We will probably begin with remote operating first.


 Yep, you do run into a bit of a chaicken or egg issue there. This has come up before, there is a letter of interpretation somewhere that discusses open a door (Not exposing bare energized parts) to interact in ways like look at a trip unit or meter, or attach a remote racking or switching device as not being considered an arc flash hazard as defined by 70E.


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## MattMc (May 30, 2011)

Apparently we use coveralls good for level 2 mine are nomex I have a face shield and 1000v gloves, gonna get a balaclava soon. I also have non conductive boots fused meter leads and arc blast rated earplugs. Funny since I pretty much never work live.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> Est-ce que vous êtes sérieux ??
> 
> { Are you serious ?? }
> 
> ...


Have you ever thought of just writing things once, in English? It would save you from having to translate yourself.


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## MattMc (May 30, 2011)

Ha ha. Also it seems to be a predominantly English speaking forum. No offence French electrician.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Just don't understand why he wastes his time.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

jza said:


> Just don't understand why he wastes his time.


I have often wondered the same thing. But I'm too nice to say it. Also the statements of wire size in mm^2 is aggravating.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

I would tell the safety guy to order him a pair because he will be assisting you rack the breakers in. :laughing:

Seriously any company not up on OSHA is asking for it IMO.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

jza said:


> Just don't understand why he wastes his time.


Not always the case there were couple other fourms which some of the members did called me in for translated from French to Engish or viceverisa and I dealt with one other fourm not in the USA side but in French side I used dual langunge very often due we have European electrician forum there.

And this is not only a USA or Canada fourm it pretty much international so other countries will look it up.



InPhase277 said:


> I have often wondered the same thing. But I'm too nice to say it. Also the statements of wire size in mm^2 is aggravating.


The mm² number is common when I used with for both Américaine et European fourm and also note in your NEC book there is a metric verison of the conductors they will listed in ( pharseates ) and I know majorty of the USA / Canada side will not go full metric anyway for pretty long time it more like tradition.

Merci,
Marc


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