# Getting bend angles smaller than 22.5



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

So I was bending some 1 1/4" pipe the other day, and I ran into a situation where the multipliers for even a 10 degree bend didn't give me a large enough distance between bends to use the bender on. Then, on accident, I ran into it with 3/4" pipe.

I understand the math and how to get an acceptable angle for the situation, but how I do I measure bends less than those marked on the bender besides eyeball it. Large pipe is not forgiving, and I feel in order to be able to install it exactly as I picture it in my head I need to be able to accurately measure the angle of my bend to insure it is correct. How can I do this?

Also, any tricks for doing rolling offset/kick type bends. I got my rotation wrong on the same bend. It was easy to correct by putting in a coupling. It is up and doesn't look terrible, but I would like to figure that little trick out too.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Digital level and a good pipe bending app.

Mark your centers on the bender.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

for the adjustable protractor on larger conduit you can use 2 short pieces of JR strut and bolt them back to back at one end and it makes a larger protractor and you use the small one to find the angle of the jr strut one.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

sparkiez said:


> Also, any tricks for doing rolling offset/kick type bends. I got my rotation wrong on the same bend. It was easy to correct by putting in a coupling. It is up and doesn't look terrible, but I would like to figure that little trick out too.


temporarily put in pipes in the straight sections that pass each-other (run the pipes longer than what your permanently going to) and then just measure the offset like its a normal offset

a rolled offset is made the same as a regular one it is just installed rolled


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I do it like that pretty much everywhere I can. Sure, there's like 3 other ways, but keeping it simple creates speed and eliminates errors. Sometimes precision doesn't even matter and I'll just pull a tape rule across where I envision the offset. That's quicker yet.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Practice, practice, practice. Like anything else, the more you do it, the better you get at it. Every bender is different, learn your bender. A "no-dog" level is a must.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

joebanana said:


> Practice, practice, practice. Like anything else, the more you do it, the better you get at it. Every bender is different, learn your bender. A "no-dog" level is a must.


I think I own a no-dog, but I don't use it 99.9% of the time. Learned without it. Sorta kept with that routine. I can see how it would be of benefit, though.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

When I'm bending 2" emt or rigid in my 555 I mark the center top of the end with a pencil before loading the conduit on the outside and then in the same spot on the inside of the end. Next I turn it 180 degrees and make the same marks on the opposite side of the conduit. Load the bugger into the shoe and make my first bend, slide it out to my offset mark, roll it over check the end marks to make sure they are pointing straight vertical and make equal bend 2nd time. I do lots of 5 degrees to pull a box offset so I can run up the wall out of a meter hub. I don't like sissy bar on house jobs, I prefer clamps.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

10%? Almost sounds like poor planning or you don't want to set any boxes. What does your boss think?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> When I'm bending 2" emt or rigid in my 555 I mark the center top of the end with a pencil before loading the conduit on the outside and then in the same spot on the inside of the end. ...


That's been my method also. It's how I was taught, only I use Sharpie. I know some guys are real anal about Sharpie marker tick marks on their conduits, but I don't share that particular flavor of OCD. Every stick of anything bent I've ever installed has little Sharpie tick marks where my bend were made from. Nobody but another electrician is going to notice stuff like that anyhow.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I think I own a no-dog, but I don't use it 99.9% of the time. Learned without it. Sorta kept with that routine. I can see how it would be of benefit, though.


I used to do a lot of "larger" rigid installs, and a temporary LB, or other condulet, and torpedo works well, or, a short piece of strut strapped to the pipe works too.
EMT is more forgiving.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> only I use Sharpie.
> 
> Nobody but another electrician is going to notice stuff like that anyhow.


I should send you a box of china markers. 

I hate seeing sharpie or pencil marks everywhere. (Except hidden in a wall.)


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Wirenuting said:


> I should send you a box of china markers.
> 
> I hate seeing sharpie or pencil marks everywhere. (Except hidden in a wall.)


Pencil can be erased for exposed work that everyone for the next 20yrs will see.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Bird dog said:


> Pencil can be erased for exposed work that everyone for the next 20yrs will see.


You have an eraser on your pencil?

I can’t stop from eating them. It’s an old habit from catholic school as a kid. Them faster then the speed of light rulers made me nervous.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Bird dog said:


> Pencil can be erased for exposed work that everyone for the next 20yrs will see.


This is part of an OCD peeve for me. 
They finish and a insulator does his thing. Then someone has to write all over it because they can’t think of using paper. 
This is a chill water make up line, part of a larger boiler replacement that was done recently. It’s right were the customer sees it everyday. 
F/n pipefitters :vs_mad:


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Wirenuting said:


> This is part of an OCD peeve for me.
> They finish and a insulator does his thing. Then someone has to write all over it because they can’t think of using paper.
> This is a chill water make up line, part of a larger boiler replacement that was done recently. It’s right were the customer sees it everyday.
> F/n pipefitters :vs_mad:


You're right.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> This is part of an OCD peeve for me.
> They finish and a insulator does his thing. Then someone has to write all over it because they can’t think of using paper.
> This is a chill water make up line, part of a larger boiler replacement that was done recently. It’s right were the customer sees it everyday.
> F/n pipefitters :vs_mad:


I'd agree with you on that one. That's closer to vandalism. lain:


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Bird dog said:


> Pencil can be erased for exposed work that everyone for the next 20yrs will see.


sharpie on conduit you just write back over it with sharpie and wipe it off


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Bird dog said:


> Pencil can be erased for exposed work that everyone for the next 20yrs will see.


sharpie on conduit you just write back over it with sharpie and wipe it off, i like pencil or fine point sharpies because of finer line though, the smaller you aim the less you miss. i dont circle the whole pipe either though, just a tick mark


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

That weird grey greasy slime that builds up on your hands when you handle a lot of pipe does a half-decent job of removing tick marks if you just rub your thumb over it. My fingers are my eraser for errant marks. :wink:


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

yep, running rigid you gotta watch oily gloves erasing your sharpie marks


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

sparkiez said:


> So I was bending some 1 1/4" pipe the other day, and I ran into a situation where the multipliers for even a 10 degree bend didn't give me a large enough distance between bends to use the bender on. Then, on accident, I ran into it with 3/4" pipe.
> 
> I understand the math and how to get an acceptable angle for the situation, but how I do I measure bends less than those marked on the bender besides eyeball it. Large pipe is not forgiving, and I feel in order to be able to install it exactly as I picture it in my head I need to be able to accurately measure the angle of my bend to insure it is correct. How can I do this?
> 
> Also, any tricks for doing rolling offset/kick type bends. I got my rotation wrong on the same bend. It was easy to correct by putting in a coupling. It is up and doesn't look terrible, but I would like to figure that little trick out too.


If you are making small offsets on larger conduit, you may need to use 5 deg. or even 2.5 deg. Five degrees will give a center to center dimension of 11.47 inches per one inch of offset. 2.5 degrees will give 22.93 inches center to center per inch of offset.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

Thanks for the replies all. I will have to eyeball the angle this time around, but now that I'm aware of the difference when bending larger radius pipe now, so this next bit of run I'm doing today should go well.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Wiresmith said:


> .......a rolled offset is made the same as a regular one it is just installed rolled


Use the Pythagorean Theory for a rolled offset.

The more roll needed will increase the amount of offset required.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

varmit said:


> If you are making small offsets on larger conduit, you may need to use 5 deg. or even 2.5 deg. Five degrees will give a center to center dimension of 11.47 inches per one inch of offset. 2.5 degrees will give 22.93 inches center to center per inch of offset.


This will give you the distance between marks, and then I use the “amount of travel” method to actually bend to the correct angle when using a “Chicago” bender, 555, or even a hydraulic one.

For those who aren’t familiar with it, a bender will pull say 6 inches thru it for a 90, 3” for a 45, 2” for 30, and on down.

The trick is finding the exact amount for a 90. You may need to waste a couple of pieces of pipe but if you’re running a lot of pipe with the same bender then it os worth it.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

bill39 said:


> Use the Pythagorean Theory for a rolled offset.
> 
> The more roll needed will increase the amount of offset required.



that takes more time and is less accurate


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

bill39 said:


> Use the Pythagorean Theory for a rolled offset.
> 
> The more roll needed will increase the amount of offset required.


Why would you do that? You just take your measurement the depth of the offset in the plane of the roll rather than the wall or the floor. 

In pythagoream terms, you can simply measure the hypotenuse, you don't need to measure the legs and calculate the hypotenuse.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

splatz said:


> Why would you do that?


job must be coming to an end and work is slow in the area or he is impressing the apprentice


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

splatz said:


> Why would you do that? You just take your measurement the depth of the offset in the plane of the roll rather than the wall or the floor.
> 
> In pythagoream terms, you can simply measure the hypotenuse, you don't need to measure the legs and calculate the hypotenuse.


This.

And a digital level and pipe bending app.

I've bent some awesome pipe efficiently this way. Used to have some pictures of identical 5* offsets on some stainless steel rigid on here. It was beautiful. Nothing went to scrap.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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