# First Lotus LED install.



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I have a house I am roughing right now that the customer wants cans, but there is a TJI in the way in a hallway. I am pitching lotus lights, and will most likely give them a go.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Kaffeene said:


> So after reading about the Lotus LED's here I had a job that I wanted to put 4" recessed lighting in all the bedrooms on a second floor with insulation
> 
> The ceiling joists are only 2x6 and there is hard duct work & an air handler laying on top of the joists where many of my recessed lighting would go.
> I just decided it might be easier to try out the Lotus. I found a place near me that I could order from and got the 4" round slim 3000K and put 16 of them in.
> ...


Did you have any that ended up being right under a joist?

How did the 3000K look? People often prefer 2700K in bedrooms.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Did you have any that ended up being right under a joist?
> 
> How did the 3000K look? People often prefer 2700K in bedrooms.


For the 4", you have to put them a little off centre from the joist to fit the driver through the hole. I use mostly 3000K with no issues.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

99cents said:


> For the 4", you have to put them a little off centre from the joist to fit the driver through the hole. I use mostly 3000K with no issues.


Does the driver just sit on top of the finish ceiling?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Roger123 said:


> Does the driver just sit on top of the finish ceiling?


Yes. Although the drivers are supposed to be good in thermal insulation, I'm suspicious. I have a callback this week to look at two burnouts. They're Lotus knock offs, though, not the real thing.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

HackWork said:


> Did you have any that ended up being right under a joist?
> 
> How did the 3000K look? People often prefer 2700K in bedrooms.


No I measured everything and used a beam finder and it all worked out in open bays. 
The 3000K looked pretty good. I noticed they ramp up a little when you first turn on the dimmer switch. I used a Lutron Diva CL dimmer. 

I usually like to go for 2700K, but a few customers have wanted the brighter white. This customer was happy with the color.

Oh and I purchased these from Grant in Hackensack.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Kaffeene said:


> No I measured everything and used a beam finder and it all worked out in open bays.
> The 3000K looked pretty good. I noticed they ramp up a little when you first turn on the dimmer switch. I used a Lutron Diva CL dimmer.
> 
> I usually like to go for 2700K, but a few customers have wanted the brighter white. This customer was happy with the color.
> ...


I am curious why you used the beam finder, it seems like you were trying to avoid the joists. I thought the whole point of using the slim models was so that you can put them anywhere, even under the joists?

I'm just curious is all.

Oh and does the Grant in Hackensack always stock them? Cause I just asked at the Grant in Belleville and they don't have any in stock nor could he give me a price for them


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I can't seem to find these anywhere local, only online.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I am curious why you used the beam finder, it seems like you were trying to avoid the joists. I thought the whole point of using the slim models was so that you can put them anywhere, even under the joists?
> 
> I'm just curious is all.
> 
> Oh and does the Grant in Hackensack always stock them? Cause I just asked at the Grant in Belleville and they don't have any in stock nor could he give me a price for them


The slim model is an 12W model that is 1" thick, this is what I used. The other size is the ultra thin model that is 9W and a 1/2" thick.

I had to order from Grant, took about a week and are $50.70 for this model. Cooper Electric also has them for order, but the Grant price was slightly better.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Kaffeene said:


> The slim model is an 12W model that is 1" thick, this is what I used. The other size is the ultra thin model that is 9W and a 1/2" thick.
> 
> I had to order from Grant, took about a week and are $50.70 for this model. Cooper Electric also has them for order, but the Grant price was slightly better.


Gotcha. Thanks.

If I ever install Lotus, I think I am going to use the ultra slim and not worry about joists at all.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Gotcha. Thanks.
> 
> If I ever install Lotus, I think I am going to use the ultra slim and not worry about joists at all.


9W have lots of punch for an 8' ceiling.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

I will never never push to install cans again.
I found a really good quality Lotus knock off for $20 CAD. 
12 Watt, 3000K or 5000K 780 Lumens, 5 year warranty, ETL approved, energy star and IC rated.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

You Canadians get all the good stuff.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I'm super jelly.


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## Max C. (Sep 29, 2016)

NDC said:


> I will never never push to install cans again.
> I found a really good quality Lotus knock off for $20 CAD.
> 12 Watt, 3000K or 5000K 780 Lumens, 5 year warranty, ETL approved, energy star and IC rated.


Which brand if I may ask? Also, what are the available finishes?


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

Max C. said:


> Which brand if I may ask? Also, what are the available finishes?


I dunno some generic chinese name like dayslim or something. They come in white only. 3000k and 5000k. A 6" is also available.
I built a small box with a dimmer that displays the two options they can choose from.
Give a customer too many choices and you're asking for problems. I'm an electrician not a mobile lighting showroom.
If they want something fancier I will go with a Liteline or Lotus and charge a premium for it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is odd. It's a bit harder to find on their website, but Lotus makes an "economy" line. But it's odd because it doesn't seem economy. It's the super slim model but the wattage is almost as high as the thicker one.

9w Super Thin: https://www.lotusledlights.com/recessed-lighting/4-inch/9w-super-thin
11w Economy Super Thin: https://www.lotusledlights.com/rece...ecessed-led-lighting-fixture-round-super-thin
12w Full Size: https://www.lotusledlights.com/recessed-lighting/4-inch/12w-slim-standard

So why is the 11w Super Thin the economy model? It seems like it should be the premium model since it's both super thin and higher wattage. No need for the thicker model.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

HackWork said:


> This is odd. It's a bit harder to find on their website, but Lotus makes an "economy" line. But it's odd because it doesn't seem economy. It's the super slim model but the wattage is almost as high as the thicker one.
> 
> 9w Super Thin: https://www.lotusledlights.com/recessed-lighting/4-inch/9w-super-thin
> 11w Economy Super Thin: https://www.lotusledlights.com/rece...ecessed-led-lighting-fixture-round-super-thin
> ...


Longer resi warranty on their 12W and it looks like it has a better heatsink. I think the 12W or original has a larger OD last time I put one in I had to buy a larger hole saw. I have only installed Lotus 12W. I'm sure its just built better overall.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> This is odd. It's a bit harder to find on their website, but Lotus makes an "economy" line. But it's odd because it doesn't seem economy. It's the super slim model but the wattage is almost as high as the thicker one.
> 
> 9w Super Thin: https://www.lotusledlights.com/recessed-lighting/4-inch/9w-super-thin
> 11w Economy Super Thin: https://www.lotusledlights.com/rece...ecessed-led-lighting-fixture-round-super-thin
> ...


I never noticed that. I dunno. I always use the 9's (except on one occasion where I had a higher ceiling).


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

NDC, neither of the super thin models, economy or normal, have a heat sink at all. My comparison is between those two. I only mentioned the 12w thicker model with the big heatsink to show that the "economy" super thin model was almost as bright, making me wonder why it's economy and not premium.

$.99, I am extremely disappointed in you.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

Just saw the other day Elite makes something very similar to the Lotus at half the cost. Supply house had them in stock and the price was about $30 for the 4" version instead of close to $60.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lots of choices in the market for slim LED.

I bought Lithonia(WF4 I believe) for my basement. $30 at the local supplier. They are 36000 compared to 50000 hours of the Lotus. After 36000 hours I won't complain if I need new lights.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I talked to the local Lotus dude yesterday. He had a spreadsheet showing the difference between Lotus and knockoffs. It included three coats of paint, a two stage driver (whatever that means) and more LED's. Life expectancy is supposedly higher as well.

My preference is Lotus because I believe in their quality but sometimes price talks.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I talked to the local Lotus dude yesterday. He had a spreadsheet showing the difference between Lotus and knockoffs. It included three coats of paint, a two stage driver (whatever that means) and more LED's. Life expectancy is supposedly higher as well.
> 
> My preference is Lotus because I believe in their quality but sometimes price talks.


But you didn't ask him the one thing that I wanted to know and asked you about. Thanks.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> But you didn't ask him the one thing that I wanted to know and asked you about. Thanks.


Jeebus, I forgot, Hack  . I'll ask.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Get him to send Minnesota product!


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

http://www.iuseeliteled.com/products/rl475/2178


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

99cents said:


> Jeebus, I forgot, Hack  . I'll ask.


Hack, you're being a d!ck so you can phone Lotus yourself.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Hack, you're being a d!ck so you can phone Lotus yourself.


I really didn't expect anything from you.

Next time I am in Home Depot I will ask one of the shelf stockers if he has any Lotus lights in his sideworker station wagon and if he can help.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I really didn't expect anything from you.
> 
> Next time I am in Home Depot I will ask one of the shelf stockers if he has any Lotus lights in his sideworker station wagon and if he can help.


I don't help assholes.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I was watching Mass at St. Peter's Square at the Vatican on tv, and the Pope said he was praying for earthquake victims in El Salvador, Haiti, Japan, Italy , and New Zealand. Also he mentioned Hackworks and 99 and said prayers for them to reconcile as well...............


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

I have another job 20 recessed on a 1st floor with drywall notches & cutouts (YAY!) and 20 on a 2nd floor with attic access. 

I'm thinking of using the Elite low profile LED. Well I definitely want to use something like this on the 1st floor, but then I want to match the 2nd floor lights to the 1st floor. 
I like using 4" lights, they look nicer and have the same or about the same light output for LED's as a 5" or 6".


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

I installed 10 of the Elite 6inch slim LED 900lum 15W today and I really like them. 
I used my Hole Pro X to cut quick and accurate holes with no mess. The customer was very happy about that too.
I used a Lutron Diva CL dimmer and they dim pretty good.
Install of the fixtures was a breeze and the price was good.


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

Has anyone used the rough in plates? (RIP6 and RIP4)

If so, do you just attach them under the joist if it happens to be in the way?

What about when there are multiple stacked joists where the light needs to go?

My supply house carries these and I am considering using them in an upcoming project.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

NDC said:


> Longer resi warranty on their 12W and it looks like it has a better heatsink. I think the 12W or original has a larger OD last time I put one in I had to buy a larger hole saw. I have only installed Lotus 12W. I'm sure its just built better overall.


My favourite trick is to install the 12W and let them see how bright they are, then sell them the dimmer upgrade when they thought that 12W wouldn't be bright enough. :thumbup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Modifier, I got your last email. So basically it's just a lower quality builder grade model that is brighter but might not last as long and the color temp might change. Makes sense.

And thanks for finding that out for us, 99cents failed. He is now down with Borgi on my list of Canadians I might move in with.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Happy to learn myself. 

The beers outside chilling in the snowbank. :laughing:


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

For those interested in the cut sheets and comparison sheet I sent Hack, click to download:

*Economy 9W*

*Standard 9W*

*4" 14W model*

*Lithonia Comparison*


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Wow, Borgo just dodged a bullet  .


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

99cents said:


> Wow, Borgo just dodged a bullet  .


:lol:


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

Okay, so I'm a believer.





































This one is installed in an elevator vestibule on a rewire project. What I especially like is how flush and seamless they install. I'm going to use the 4" ones in the shower area of the master suite. 


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Barjack said:


> Okay, so I'm a believer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, now it makes the molding look bad.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What brand is that one?


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

HackWork said:


> What brand is that one?




Lotus











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## Maple_Syrup25 (Nov 20, 2012)

I like the idea of using liteline, they have been around long enough that I think they will be around when replacement lamps/power supplys are needed. And I like their trim. Also they have a 10 yr warranty. I think lotus is 3 or 5?


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