# Locking a service in the closed position



## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm not quite sure why this would be a safety issue. If there was a fire and the Fire Department needed to shut off the power. I'm SURE they have tools that can cut the lock off the service.

EDIT: I'm sure the vandals also have the same tools to cut the lock off.


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## Idaho Abe (Nov 28, 2007)

*Locking out service*

Locking out service will not deter a determined vandal but if you can de-energize, lock out and take a picture. It will lessen your liability. Check if there is a fire system in this building because you do not want to de-energize that unles fire marshall gives OK


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## gampa (Feb 11, 2008)

chenley said:


> I'm not quite sure why this would be a safety issue. If there was a fire and the Fire Department needed to shut off the power. I'm SURE they have tools that can cut the lock off the service.
> 
> EDIT: I'm sure the vandals also have the same tools to cut the lock off.


A case in Vancouver B.C. Canada
An electrician was working on florecent ballasts and got hung up his partener saw this and ran to the switch room to throw the breaker the swich room was locked and the electrician died 
In my humble opinion there should never be locks on switch rooms or panels 
If the building is deigned properly no one without authoraty shoud have easy access to electrical components


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

gampa said:


> A case in Vancouver B.C. Canada
> An electrician was working on florecent ballasts and got hung up his partener saw this and ran to the switch room to throw the breaker the swich room was locked and the electrician died
> In my humble opinion there should never be locks on switch rooms or panels
> If the building is deigned properly no one without authoraty shoud have easy access to electrical components


It should have been shut off BEFORE working on it. That's the purpose of LOTO.


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## Idaho Abe (Nov 28, 2007)

*Locking out service*

I was concerned about fire line sprinkler system freezing if there is not heat in building.


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## gampa (Feb 11, 2008)

480sparky said:


> It should have been shut off BEFORE working on it. That's the purpose of LOTO.


Sometimes we have to work on hot stuff But they thought that the cicuit was cold as it turns out that fixture was on a different circuit unknown to the electricians working on the system. I have run into this before On a row of fixtures some will be on one cicuit and then some on anouther If you knck down the whole row you don't have the light to work 
Yes after the fact there are many things that should have been done but they weren't 
The crux of the problem is that electrical rooms should not be locked and panels should not be locked


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

---electrical rooms should not be locked and panels should not be locked---

I could not disagree more. These are the items that should be locked.
If you don't know, then don't touch!!

I lock every panel and door that I find.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

gampa said:


> Sometimes we have to work on hot stuff But they thought that the cicuit was cold as it turns out that fixture was on a different circuit unknown to the electricians working on the system. I have run into this before On a row of fixtures some will be on one cicuit and then some on anouther If you knck down the whole row you don't have the light to work
> Yes after the fact there are many things that should have been done but they weren't
> The crux of the problem is that electrical rooms should not be locked and panels should not be locked


The crux of the problem is not whether the breaker controlling the light was locked, but proper safety measures were not taken by the person performing the work. He should have simply asked who has the key and turned it off. So if you need to turn off the lights to make it safe to work on, use a flashlight or construction light. If the lights need to stay on for some reason, reschedule the work for a time you can shut them off.

Is it an inconvenience? Yes. But how much of an inconvenience is it compared to the one my family would have to endure to arrange for my funeral?

Making all electrical panels, breakers and disconnects totally accessible to everyone makes for a very scary world. 
Terrorists would have a field day shutting down airports. 
Psychos would be able to turn off critical communication systems,, everything from ordinary telephone lines to military, government and law enforcement channels. 
Juvenile delinquents would have something to do besides tagging rail cars.
Wanna rob a bank? Easy; turn off their power..... No alarms, no security system, no video tapes. 
Bored? Start turning off traffic lights.....


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## gampa (Feb 11, 2008)

Yes I can see your point on this 
One thing I am not used to is big city problems , terrorists and punks, etc. 
I have worked mainly in smaller cities but in San Francisco we did not run into this problem The only time I ever ran into this was at a school There we came in after hours and did our work with someone always watching the panel Under normal cicumstanses the locking of a panel is not something that I have had a problem with If I was to work in a situation where the panel or switch room was locked while we were working on the system we would refuse to work .


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

gampa said:


> In my humble opinion there should never be locks on switch rooms or panels
> If the building is deigned properly no one without authoraty shoud have easy access to electrical components



240.24(B)

I was just at an apartment building where the panels were located in the corridors, and they were all unlocked. They did not have a 24 hr maintenance man, so the tenants need to be able to get to their breakers to reset them.

Optimal? No. 
Required to be unlocked? Yes.


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## wire_twister (Feb 14, 2008)

I do not know if there is a code against locking a disco. in the energized position, that being said I do not like the idea. Sure the fire fighters can cut the lock off when they get there, but in a rural area that could be 5 or 10 minutes, if someone could shut down the power the fire might be out before they arrive. As to the case in Vancouver, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, if they had checked before working the locked door would have been discovered and opened. I know sometimes we have to do hot work, but it is still a good idea to know how and where to shut off in an emergency.


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## Safety-Guy (Jan 22, 2007)

gampa said:


> Sometimes we have to work on hot stuff But they thought that the cicuit was cold as it turns out that fixture was on a different circuit unknown to the electricians working on the system. I have run into this before


 Proper testing would have found this, along with proper PPE the employee would still be alive. These are 2 of the most overlooked steps for "the sake of time.
I know there are times that there is no choice but to do hot work, Testing, verifying voltage, ect. but there is no escuse for not using the proper PPE for these tasks. Yes I take this personal, see my "So Sad" thread in the safety forum.

As for locking a panel or disconnect, if the internal covers are in place where no exposure to live electrical happens if the door is opened there is no need for a lock, a lock will keep an honest person honest, but it's game on for the criminal mind


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