# VFD inputs and outputs



## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

I've got a 600V motor (jet pump) with a VFD and another 208v motor (filtration pump) with no drive. I need to have a emergency stop button (this particular button mechanically stays put when pushed) and a timer (timer is a rotary dial that stays engaged mechanically and needs no holding contact). This is for a giant hot tub for a highrise condo building. I'm thinking of putting in a contactor for the 208v motor and incorporating it with the control ins and outs inside the 600v VFD. I believe I've got it, but I'd appreciate a second set of eyes (or more) to confirm my simple schematic. The A1 and A2 are for the 208V contactor. I've just never used the ins and outs from a VFD before. I'll attach 2 pages from the online manual and my schematic. Thanks.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Looks bad. No time to draw, but maybe someone will.

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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

Maybe 11 instead of 16 and remove jumper from 2 to 17 but unsure about 5 or 25.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

Peewee0413 said:


> Looks bad. No time to draw, but maybe someone will.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


The initial reaction may be "hey where's the holding contact for the start?" but this is not that kind of start/stop setup. The rotary stays engaged until the time is up. The stop stays open until you physically pull it out again.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

you are going to have to add a relay as the vfd output will not handle the abuse of a contactor. Your numbers are wrong but we need to know what the plan is before we can give you advice. 

First you need to explain the logic like you are talking to a 3 year old.

Something like......
1/ press a button and the vfd and filter pump will start. (what happens if they do not start)
1a if vfd does not start then do not start filter pump
1b if vfd starts and filter pump doesn't then shut vfd down.
2/ the pump will run for 2 hrs then shut down
3/ if e-stop......stop. reset timer or leave timer running?


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

omaxwell said:


> The initial reaction may be "hey where's the holding contact for the start?" but this is not that kind of start/stop setup. The rotary stays engaged until the time is up. The stop stays open until you physically pull it out again.


I'm not certain what your trying to say to me. I get the Estop as a maintain start. I don't understand where you're getting 24v and why you'd put it to the analog input. 

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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

Term 2,5/25 are analougue inputs. For an external speed reference from say a potentiometer or a plc output. 4-20 mA or 0-10 v. 

Seems like for what you explained you would want to use term 1 hooked to the E-Stop/timer to start/stop the drive. Maybe you could configure the relay output, term 16/17 to close when the drive runs and use that to power the coil on the contactor of the second motor.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Wire 4 from drive goes to one side of e stop.
eother side of estop goes to timer.
Other side of timer goes to term 1 on drive.
This will start and stop drive.

Next
What voltage is the coil for the contactor?
Run that hot to term 16 on drive and term 17 on drive to coil for starter.
neutral/return from other side of coil at whatever line voltage you are controlling the coil with.
Drive will need to be setup for aux relay to come on when running.

Done

Cowboy


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

mburtis said:


> Term 2,5/25 are analougue inputs. For an external speed reference from say a potentiometer or a plc output. 4-20 mA or 0-10 v.
> 
> Seems like for what you explained you would want to use term 1 hooked to the E-Stop/timer to start/stop the drive. Maybe you could configure the relay output, term 16/17 to close when the drive runs and use that to power the coil on the contactor of the second motor.


Beat me to it. Good job your learning.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> Beat me to it. Good job your learning.


Thanks, the difference is you know it will work. I'm never 100 percent sure until I poke the button and the magic smoke doesn't come out.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

gpop said:


> you are going to have to add a relay as the vfd output will not handle the abuse of a contactor. Your numbers are wrong but we need to know what the plan is before we can give you advice.
> 
> First you need to explain the logic like you are talking to a 3 year old.
> 
> ...


Right sorry I should have been clearer.

1-Emergency stop stops both motors when pushed. Motors do not start without pulling out button manually.
2-Rotary dial timer starts both motors when turned. User selects run time period. Never runs without dial turned.

At this point, I don't care if for whatever reason one runs without the other, these pumps are not critical devices which would have dire consequences if one were to run without the other. The "3/" you mention doesn't matter, the timer can run all it wants, without the stop button being pulled out again, it wont run.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

Peewee0413 said:


> I'm not certain what your trying to say to me. I get the Estop as a maintain start. I don't understand where you're getting 24v and why you'd put it to the analog input.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Sorry for the assumption. My bad.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

mburtis said:


> Term 2,5/25 are analougue inputs. For an external speed reference from say a potentiometer or a plc output. 4-20 mA or 0-10 v.
> 
> Seems like for what you explained you would want to use term 1 hooked to the E-Stop/timer to start/stop the drive. Maybe you could configure the relay output, term 16/17 to close when the drive runs and use that to power the coil on the contactor of the second motor.


That's good. That's really good. Although I'd have to rely on my capacity to configure the relay output.... manual please.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

omaxwell said:


> That's good. That's really good. Although I'd have to rely on my capacity to configure the relay output.... manual please.


It may be defaulted as run most are run or fault


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

Setting up the relay to close when the drive runs should be pretty straight forward. Just a matter, like you said, of going through the manual for the drive and figuring out which parameter it is. Like others mentioned you may have to use another relay before you get to the contactor depending on the ratings of the drive output and the contactor coil.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

just the cowboy said:


> Wire 4 from drive goes to one side of e stop.
> eother side of estop goes to timer.
> Other side of timer goes to term 1 on drive.
> This will start and stop drive.
> ...


twin answers. I didn't get the contactor yet.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Ok go terminal 4 (dip switch on +) to maintained push button common - maintained push button N/O - clock common - clock N/O (presuming clock has isolated dry contacts) - terminal 1. 

power (same voltage as aux on contactor) to terminal 16. Terminal 17 to contactor coil. A2 on contactor to power return

program output to running. 
you can also add a second set of contacts on the maintained push button to give you a extra N/O contact (use between power and terminal 16) if you want as a belt and suspenders approach to the maintained push button


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Around here you need the E-stop to stop both the Filtration pump and Jet pump when an estop is pressed for a spa (per our health dept) for a commercial spa. A filter pump on a commercial spa will be running all the time when the spa is being used(or 24/7 most of the time) and the jet pump will run based off a timer. You said your jet pump is the pump on the VFD and filter pump is not. If this is the case than you definitely don't want your filter pump tied into the controls for the VFD for two reasons.

1. if the VFD for the jets go down your filter pump will not run and the spa will get green.
2. the way you have it drawn your your trying to start the vfd with the auxiliary relay on the vfd and your filter pump wont run unless your jets are on.

Your best bet is to run a separate control circuit so the filter pump can run weather or not the jet pump(on VFD) is operational or not.

I would have a GFCI protected control circuit or a 12v control circuit (listed pool/spa light transformer) as the guests will be standing on wet concrete when touching and operating the timer and e-stop that will most likely be near the spa.

Since this looked like a rebranded AC Lenze drive I pulled up the manual and found the programable inputs.

Wiring:

E-Stop Contactor:
A1 and A2: Coil Powered by protected circuit going through E-Stop button.
L1 and T1: Coil wire to motor starter for Filter pump
L2 and T2: Terminal 4 and 13A on your VFD:
Program parameter P121(terminal 13A) to 21. This will cause the VFD to TRIP and go into an alarm. This error code will also tell you that the VFD is in alarm due to an external fault(your e-stop). This really helps simplify troubleshooting when someone presses the e-stop for no reason.

Jet Timer:
Terminal 4 and 1: This will start the VFD when the timer is activated and there is not an external Fault (e-stop pressed).


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

mburtis said:


> Setting up the relay to close when the drive runs should be pretty straight forward. Just a matter, like you said, of going through the manual for the drive and figuring out which parameter it is. Like others mentioned you may have to use another relay before you get to the contactor depending on the ratings of the drive output and the contactor coil.


I haven't actually got the contactor yet. I'll see whats available.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Man I love seeing the skills come out on this forum.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

If you're using a contractor to control the VFD input terminals, they're very low current and often a big contractor cannot handle this low of current. 

It's best to use a small ice-cube really that has gold bifurcated contacts, these can handle the low current. Same goes wth all contacts in the circuit. 

Also, I don't like running the VFD 24DC very far from the VFD. If it gets shorted out, often it'll burn up the control board.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Around here you need the E-stop to stop both the Filtration pump and Jet pump when an estop is pressed for a spa (per our health dept) for a commercial spa. A filter pump on a commercial spa will be running all the time when the spa is being used(or 24/7 most of the time) and the jet pump will run based off a timer. You said your jet pump is the pump on the VFD and filter pump is not. If this is the case than you definitely don't want your filter pump tied into the controls for the VFD for two reasons.
> 
> 1. if the VFD for the jets go down your filter pump will not run and the spa will get green.
> 2. the way you have it drawn your your trying to start the vfd with the auxiliary relay on the vfd and your filter pump wont run unless your jets are on.
> ...


Unfortunately, I understood the first answers well, this one less so although it appears to be the correct one based on new information regarding the filtration pump running continuously. Nevertheless, I'll take a look again tomorrow. Thank you for your time.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

micromind said:


> If you're using a contractor to control the VFD input terminals, they're very low current and often a big contractor cannot handle this low of current.
> 
> It's best to use a small ice-cube really that has gold bifurcated contacts, these can handle the low current. Same goes wth all contacts in the circuit.
> 
> Also, I don't like running the VFD 24DC very far from the VFD. If it gets shorted out, often it'll burn up the control board.


 Those are very good points. Actually now that I think about it I don't think I've ever run a DI from a drive trough a contactor, just cube relays, switches,, or I/O relays. However I normally just use regular cube relays and I haven't run into any issues. 

In my example it would probably be best to have the timer also use the protected circuit that powers a small cube relay coil and have the NO contacts going to VFD terminals 4 and 1. Mount the 2 cube relays(e-stop and vfd run) near the vfd.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

omaxwell said:


> Unfortunately, I understood the first answers well, this one less so although it appears to be the correct one based on new information regarding the filtration pump running continuously. Nevertheless, I'll take a look again tomorrow. Thank you for your time.



If you don't care about triggering an external VFD fault and want the controls to still be simple. Here is a quick diagram I made to control the VFD and Pump with a GFCI protected control circuit. All you would need is a contactor for the pump (or motor starter) and an Ice Cube relay for the jet timer with 120 volt coils. This would give you a GFCI protected circuit out by the spa since they will most likely be dripping wet bare footed operating the jet timer and e-stop.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

MotoGP1199 said:


> If you don't care about triggering an external VFD fault and want the controls to still be simple. Here is a quick diagram I made to control the VFD and Pump with a GFCI protected control circuit. All you would need is a contactor for the pump (or motor starter) and an Ice Cube relay for the jet timer with 120 volt coils. This would give you a GFCI protected circuit out by the spa since they will most likely be dripping wet bare footed operating the jet timer and e-stop.
> View attachment 157264


I'd rather bring down the control circuit to 24V. I may just get a transformer for that. Or is it unadvisable to still use the 16,17 terms (24vdc) to supply the control circuit? I would imagine as long as the drive has the supply voltage, it will supply the 24vdc regardless of whether or not it's own motor is running. Or maybe it's better to keep the control circuit supply away from the jet pump drive. I dunno, I'm trying to keep it simple and get it usable before vacation. I'll get the ice cube relay as shown and may omit the start SW1 but otherwise, I think this is a go.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

micromind said:


> If you're using a contractor to control the VFD input terminals, they're very low current and often a big contractor cannot handle this low of current.
> 
> It's best to use a small ice-cube really that has gold bifurcated contacts, these can handle the low current. Same goes wth all contacts in the circuit.
> 
> Also, I don't like running the VFD 24DC very far from the VFD. If it gets shorted out, often it'll burn up the control board.


Oh right, maybe I'll get a seperate transformer for the 24VDC then.


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## omaxwell (Aug 2, 2017)

Just an update, I did the job. Works perfectly. I used 120V control cct gfci protected. All the contactors I could find on site rated for [email protected] had 120V coils so I didn't have a choice anyways. Thanks to everyone for the help.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Thanks for getting back to us.


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## Jimmyltd (Apr 27, 2021)

I learned alot from this post, Thanks for the question and all those that helped OP figure it out


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