# The real dangers of traveling and alcohol.



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

tragic waste of a life.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Shame you didn't get to work with these guys. They both sound so lovely. 
P&L


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## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

The last big project in my local had a lot of travelers and I would say 99.9 percent were great guys. Sure some of them went to the bar after work but they never let it get out of hand.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Shame you didn't get to work with these guys. They both sound so lovely.
> P&L


****ty comment P&L... Dude died and another dude killed him, nothing good comes out of this except for our own ability to stop and think.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I feel bad for the family left behind. Tragically sad situation.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Switched said:


> ****ty comment P&L... Dude died and another dude killed him, nothing good comes out of this except for our own ability to stop and think.


Yeah, no sense being judgmental. Working twelves can make your brain go funny. This guy threw one punch, maybe in self defense. He didn't go crazy on the guy.

Best thing to do if the party gets out of hand is to just get up and leave. You have to keep your eye on the prize, which is the money, and what you're going to do with it when you return home.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Maybe the IBEW local should have vetted their members better for the safety of all. The "gentleman" who killed the other man has a history of being a violent felon. But this was just another accident, just bad luck, he's the victim here, _the man _is keeping him down, he dindu nuffin.

The IBEW is supposed to have members who are top notch electrician AND people. Not career criminals.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Yeah, no sense being judgmental. Working twelves can make your brain go funny. This guy threw one punch, maybe in self defense. He didn't go crazy on the guy.
> 
> Best thing to do if the party gets out of hand is to just get up and leave. You have to keep your eye on the prize, which is the money, and what you're going to do with it when you return home.


Judging a book by it's past record and performance is pretty telling. When you were a thug at a young age changing when you are older would be very evident all around.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

As Terrill lay unconscious in the alleyway intersection behind Trav-O-Tel Motel shortly after 2:30 a.m. Thursday, his co-workers tried to revive him by splashing water in his face, the affidavit said. Shortly thereafter, his breathing and heartbeat stopped.


http://t.steamboattoday.com/news/20...unction-man-craig-manslaugh/?templates=tablet


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

five.five-six said:


> As Terrill lay unconscious in the alleyway intersection behind Trav-O-Tel Motel shortly after 2:30 a.m. Thursday, his co-workers tried to revive him by splashing water in his face, the affidavit said. Shortly thereafter, his breathing and heartbeat stopped.
> 
> 
> http://t.steamboattoday.com/news/20...unction-man-craig-manslaugh/?templates=tablet


Had he not been punched......


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Judging a book by it's past record and performance is pretty telling. When you were a thug at a young age changing when you are older would be very evident all around.


Testosterone and alcohol can be a bad mix. Add overtime hours and it doesn't get any better.

This wasn't a sucker punch. Now it's up to the court to decide what happened.

I'm not defending the guy. If he was trying to turn his life around he should have gone back to the room after work and watched the game.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Testosterone and alcohol can be a bad mix. Add overtime hours and it doesn't get any better.
> 
> This wasn't a sucker punch. Now it's up to the court to decide what happened.
> 
> I'm not defending the guy. If he was trying to turn his life around he should have gone back to the room after work and watched the game.


First of all, you don't know that it wasn't a sucker punch. Second, a violent criminal resorts to violence yet again. Blame the criminal, not the hours, overtime, testosterone, etc. Third, you most certainly are defending him. He is a violent felon who used violence to kill someone.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

HackWork said:


> First of all, you don't know that it wasn't a sucker punch. Second, a violent criminal resorts to violence yet again. Blame the criminal, not the hours, overtime, testosterone, etc. Third, you most certainly are defending him. He is a violent felon who used violence to kill someone.


I have to say, I have worked a lot of 7X12's and never punched anyone to death as a result. Then again, I have never been a career criminal or IBEW member.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> First of all, you don't know that it wasn't a sucker punch. Second, a violent criminal resorts to violence yet again. Blame the criminal, not the hours, overtime, testosterone, etc. Third, you most certainly are defending him. He is a violent felon who used violence to kill someone.


Funny how you have defended the courts before but now you're hanging this guy without due process.

I'm not defending him, I'm saying let the court decide. If the article is to be believed, he was backed up against a fence and threw the first punch. That's the only reason I say it wasn't a sucker punch.

If he was the instigator, throw the book at him. If he was trying to turn his life around, drinking with the boys and getting into a dust up in the alley isn't a good way to do it. At any time, he could have walked away.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Funny how you have defended the courts before but now you're hanging this guy without due process.
> 
> I'm not defending him, I'm saying let the court decide. If the article is to be believed, he was backed up against a fence and threw the first punch. That's the only reason I say it wasn't a sucker punch.
> 
> If he was the instigator, throw the book at him. If he was trying to turn his life around, drinking with the boys and getting into a dust up in the alley isn't a good way to do it. At any time, he could have walked away.


I didn't say anything about court. I said that he shouldn't have been there in the first place due to his violent criminal history. If the IBEW did what it was supposed to, that man would still be alive. 

I also said that you are being a typical liberal, looking for any excuse you can instead of just admitting that he chose to do something wrong.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I was supposed to be on a federal court jury this morning , but now it is rescheduled to the 12th. Maybe this incident will inspire me.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Testosterone and alcohol can be a bad mix. Add overtime hours and it doesn't get any better.
> 
> This wasn't a sucker punch. Now it's up to the court to decide what happened.
> 
> I'm not defending the guy. *If he was trying to turn his life around he should have gone back to the room after work and watched the game.*


Agreed, he should have been in the room out of the bar.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I didn't say anything about court. I said that he shouldn't have been there in the first place due to his violent criminal history. If the IBEW did what it was supposed to, that man would still be alive.
> 
> I also said that you are being a typical liberal, looking for any excuse you can instead of just admitting that he chose to do something wrong.


WTF?

You're right, if the union barred those with criminal convictions this wouldn't have happened. That doesn't take away from the fact that it DID happen.

I'm not a liberal siding with the criminal. I wasn't there. I shouldn't have even said anything about a sucker punch because I drew that conclusion from a newspaper article.

What I am saying is that he is at least guilty of getting himself into a fight in a back alley. I assume the rest of the story will come out when he goes to trial.

I think the OP'S original premise is that alcohol, OT and out of town work can turn out bad. I agree and there's a lesson to be learned.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Guilty!


Can I go home now?


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Guilty!
> 
> 
> Can I go home now?


I want to be on a jury with you.....


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I like to sit back and sip a good bourbon or relax with a gin and tonic. That said, alcohol has never done anything to benefit anyone other than those selling it.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Maybe the IBEW local should have vetted their members better for the safety of all. The "gentleman" who killed the other man has a history of being a violent felon. But this was just another accident, just bad luck, he's the victim here, _the man _is keeping him down, he dindu nuffin.
> 
> The IBEW is supposed to have members who are top notch electrician AND people. Not career criminals.


Clearly, he was no angel. But the fact remains that if you took the alcohol out of the equation, this would never have happened. One of his priors was stabbing a man for not giving up the shirt he was wearing. Senseless violence like that is almost always fueled by alcohol, drugs, or the assailant just being flat out mentally unstable. 

Hitting a bar after work for a couple is one thing, seems these guys were bar hopping. I long for the day when that practice is a thing of the past. I believe is someone wants to get really plastered, buy a bottle and take it home. 

On our local news there are reports daily of DWI arrests, and usually there's at least one where an accident happens. One that occurred over the weekend the victim just died in the hospital and the charges now upgraded to vehicular homicide. Imagine going to a bar after work one day and the next you're in lockup and you're being charged with murder. Even with the best possible defense and trial outcome you will have already destroyed your family and your finances. 

My heart goes out to both men and their families.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Clearly, he was no angel. But the fact remains that if you took the alcohol out of the equation, this would never have happened.


 No, you don't know that. With that guy's criminal history, it might have happened with or without the alcohol. 

On the other hand, if you took that criminal out of the situation, it would have never happened. THAT is a fact. He shouldn't have been there representing the IBEW, he should have never been a member. Do you have any idea how many tens of thousands of people, maybe more, would love to have his spot in the IBEW? People who haven't made a career out of assaulting and stabbing people? 




> Imagine going to a bar after work one day and the next you're in lockup and you're being charged with murder.


No, I can't imagine it because I would not put myself into that position, neither by getting that drunk, by driving that drunk, or by fighting. 

Why do you liberals always have to find excuses instead of just blaming the criminals? He was a bad man who liked to hurt people. A man died because of it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> No, you don't know that. With that guy's criminal history, it might have happened with or without the alcohol.
> 
> On the other hand, if you took that criminal out of the situation, it would have never happened. THAT is a fact. He shouldn't have been there representing the IBEW, he should have never been a member. Do you have any idea how many tens of thousands of people, maybe more, would love to have his spot in the IBEW? People who haven't made a career out of assaulting and stabbing people?
> 
> ...


Liberals? You weren't there, you don't know what happened, yet you use a man's death to do political finger pointing. Pathetic.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Liberals? You weren't there, you don't know what happened, yet you use a man's death to do political finger pointing. Pathetic.


I wasn't there, but I know that a violent felon was allowed to join the IBEW and kill another man.

I also know that the ONLY people who are making excuses and defending the murderer are liberals, as they always do.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

So should we make alcohol illegal, or just it's sale? I mean, will it be illegal to make your own wine or beer or ethanol?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Nobody is defending the perp.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

I have some Wild Turkey Rare Breed, barrel proof!!! Smooth drink @ 112% out of the barrel! :drink:




MechanicalDVR said:


> I like to sit back and sip a good bourbon or relax with a gin and tonic. That said, alcohol has never done anything to benefit anyone other than those selling it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

pjholguin said:


> I have some Wild Turkey Rare Breed, barrel proof!!! Smooth drink @ 112% out of the barrel! :drink:


That sounds like a nice sit back in the rocker on the porch and enjoy 'sipper'.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I like to sit back and sip a good bourbon or relax with a gin and tonic. That said, alcohol has never done anything to benefit anyone other than those selling it.


I _b*tch_ a lot let w/@ few G&T's , gotta count for something around here.....:jester:~CS~:notworthy:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

That's pretty one sided to say it's the ibew's fault. There are crazy people in every walk of life. If it was a post started out as a guy who was reformed fresh out of jail or prison, and denied a job from the union, you would bitch about them not giving him a second chance. It never ends. It is the ibew's creed to organize all electricians. Save the judgement for the jury and leave the union out.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Cl906um said:


> That's pretty one sided to say it's the ibew's fault. There are crazy people in every walk of life.


 The IBEW should be taking in the best of the best, not violent felons. I don't care what "walk of life" someone comes from, if they choose to commit multiple violent felonies over the course of their life, they shouldn't be getting into the premier union. 



> If it was a post started out as a guy who was reformed fresh out of jail or prison, and denied a job from the union, you would bitch about them not giving him a second chance.


 Bologna. I would say "_too bad, so sad_". There have been man people who joined this forum to complain about not being able to get a job because of their criminal records, I can't remeber them getting much sympathy.



> It never ends. It is the ibew's creed to organize all electricians. Save the judgement for the jury and leave the union out.


That's not my IBEW. I don't want all electrician, there are too many hacks out there!

The iBEW needs to promote itself on having the best electrician, not the worst and most dangerous.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The IBEW should be taking in the best of the best, not violent felons. I don't care what "walk of life" someone comes from, if they choose to commit multiple violent felonies over the course of their life, they shouldn't be getting into the premier union.
> 
> Bologna. I would say "_too bad, so sad_". There have been man people who joined this forum to complain about not being able to get a job because of their criminal records, I can't remeber them getting much sympathy.
> 
> ...


For all I know, he could have been working white ticket. You sure he was a member? Powerhouses take anyone with a pulse.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Cl906um said:


> For all I know, he could have been working white ticket. You sure he was a member? Powerhouses take anyone with a pulse.


The OP said that they were members of his local.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The OP said that they were members of his local.


I agree. Let's keep the trash out. I just like to rile things up now and then. I can only say that I am unsure if my local does a huge background check to make sure they keep the trailer park trash out. Interview and math test. But if they do well on that.... I would imagine it's pretty hard to hide being an ex convict, but they could probably just lie about that and who would know?


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

The article said that this guy was the journeymans apprentice. That's pretty friggin disrespectful. I have had Jmen that I would have loved to punch in the teeth, but always kept my cool. Now that I am older, I changed the way I was treated into something positive and treat apprentices like people. How's that for a liberal? I don't go to church on Sunday to make up for being a douche the other six days. I try to hold myself to a higher level at all times. Karma. This kid will get his. He has a wife and family now. What a waste.


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## icdubois (Nov 16, 2013)

Went to my local meeting tonight. The crew from the power house was there along with the person who threw the punch. They were there to show their support for the brother hood and their support for him. He didn't say anything about what happened but from what I'm gathering it may have been self defense. I don't know, wasn't there. When he was speaking in front of the hall he was holding back tears, seamed very sorry about what happened and was almost "asking for forgiveness" from his peers. 

The man that died was in the CE/CW program and was trying to get his Colorado state journeyman license. I'm not sure if he was licensed in an other state or not. But I do believe that he was a member of my local. 

It sucks that this happened and has ruined two families for ever but I posted this as a warning to others. Yes work can suck, yes being away from your family for weeks on end sucks, but it's better than the alternative can be.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

icdubois said:


> Went to my local meeting tonight. The crew from the power house was there along with the person who threw the punch. They were there to show their support for the brother hood and their support for him. He didn't say anything about what happened but from what I'm gathering it may have been self defense. I don't know, wasn't there. When he was speaking in front of the hall he was holding back tears, seamed very sorry about what happened and was almost "asking for forgiveness" from his peers.
> 
> The man that died was in the CE/CW program and was trying to get his Colorado state journeyman license. I'm not sure if he was licensed in an other state or not. But I do believe that he was a member of my local.
> 
> It sucks that this happened and has ruined two families for ever but I posted this as a warning to others. Yes work can suck, yes being away from your family for weeks on end sucks, but it's better than the alternative can be.


The whole situation is sad and depressing. It has ruined two families as you say. No happy ending to this one. Should the IBEW run background checks? More than likely. Is bar hopping to get obliterated a smart thing, absolutely not! We can all learn things from this.

God be with those that suffered this tragic loss.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The whole situation is sad and depressing. It has ruined two families as you say. No happy ending to this one. *Should the IBEW run background checks?* More than likely. Is bar hopping to get obliterated a smart thing, absolutely not! We can all learn things from this.
> 
> God be with those that suffered this tragic loss.


The idea that the IBEW or an Open Shop is better/worse is irrelevant to this conversation, both schools of thought have travelers that area way from their families and making poor decisions. Shoot.... Lots of guys make those same poor decisions without traveling.

This to me falls inline with the thread about drugs on a job site thread. If you choose to partake, whether illegal or not, the act of it puts you into an altered state/condition that can lead to poor decisions.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> The idea that the IBEW or an Open Shop is better/worse is irrelevant to this conversation, both schools of thought have travelers that area way from their families and making poor decisions. Shoot.... Lots of guys make those same poor decisions without traveling.
> 
> This to me falls inline with the thread about drugs on a job site thread. If you choose to partake, whether illegal or not, the act of it puts you into an altered state/condition that can lead to poor decisions.


I didn't say one was better than the other just in this case the guy was union. If he had his background checked he may have never been on the job in this case. 

As for the intoxication levels, I enjoy a drink but being drunk is not something I do.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I didn't say one was better than the other just in this case the guy was union. If he had his background checked he may have never been on the job in this case.
> 
> As for the intoxication levels, I enjoy a drink but being drunk is not something I do.


I get you... 

Just about all the EC's I know do background checks on all employees prior to hiring. In this day and age too many customers and vendors require it. It should be done regardless of affiliation.

Also, have you ever said "I can't believe they did that"? We can background check, drug test, and watch with cameras everyone and everything, people can flip a switch and go off the deep end. We can also react to provocation or defend ourselves and in the act of that end up in this guys shoes.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> I get you...
> 
> Just about all the EC's I know do background checks on all employees prior to hiring. In this day and age too many customers and vendors require it. It should be done regardless of affiliation.
> 
> Also, have you ever said "I can't believe they did that"? We can background check, drug test, and watch with cameras everyone and everything, people can flip a switch and go off the deep end. We can also react to provocation or defend ourselves and in the act of that end up in this guys shoes.


I've worked for companies that did extensive back ground checks just due to the work at hand so I have come to fully expect it of any large contractor.

I just lucked out that I never did more harm to someone in the past, I'd been quite a scraper-brawler in my younger days. Always enjoyed a good fist fight. I have since been to anger management classes.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> *I've worked for companies that did extensive back ground checks just due to the work at hand so I have come to fully expect it of any large contractor.*
> 
> I just lucked out that I never did more harm to someone in the past, I'd been quite a scraper-brawler in my younger days. Always enjoyed a good fist fight. I have since been to anger management classes.


The cost of a background check vs. the damage it can do to your company doesn't even compare. Big or small.... spend the money to do it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> The cost of a background check vs. the damage it can do to your company doesn't even compare. Big or small.... spend the money to do it.


Working on gov. / military contracts there is often a ton of money spent up front just to get a crew together with BG checks, clearance issues, and so forth.

The more hi tech the area in question the more time and money are spent to get things rolling.


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