# neutrals are hot



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Does a balanced service have current flowing on the neutral? Does having mainly non linear loads come into play? WTH is the OP asking?:001_huh::laughing:


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## sparky=t (Jan 1, 2011)

jwjrw said:


> Does a balanced service have current flowing on the neutral? Does having mainly non linear loads come into play? WTH is the OP asking?:001_huh::laughing:


 
do not know what he is after for sure, but he would not want to open any nuetral with a load becuase they are only hot when they are open and under load!!


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

They are hot if they have load.. Most likely they do.


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## tufts46argled (Dec 23, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> They are hot if they have load.. Most likely they do.


That's why working on 3 phase branch circuits are so much fun!


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## ashveal (Aug 8, 2010)

Hooking strait to neutral bar with single wire still hot without a load. Ok and another thing is when u touch a ground to neutral bar it arcs a little telling that the ground is a better neutral than the neutral which they have the same


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## teddles38 (Feb 4, 2011)

Neutrals on both Single Phase and Three Phase circuits can get hot if there are non linear loads involved. We had an instance where a distribution board with 100 amp submains had a load of 45 to 50 amps on each of the three phases and the neutral had 130 amps. This was caused by the triplens being added to the neutral was of course was overloaded. The load on this DB was nearly all computer load and I understand that current requirement would need a double sized neutral to cover this situation.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

ashveal said:


> Hooking strait to neutral bar with single wire still hot without a load. Ok and another thing is when u touch a ground to neutral bar it arcs a little telling that the ground is a better neutral than the neutral which they have the same


Ash, did you take voltage readings between the ground and neutral and between the ungrounded conductors and the neutral, the ungrounded conductors and ground? If so, what are they? If not, you need to do this.

Also, so we can get a better understanding of your understanding, would you explain the difference between a neutral and ground as you understand it?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

ashveal said:


> Hooking strait to neutral bar with single wire still hot without a load. Ok and another thing is when u touch a ground to neutral bar it arcs a little telling that the ground is a better neutral than the neutral which they have the same



I you saw an arc it still has a load somewhere. Weather it be from someone stealing the neutral from that circuit for another circuit or something else is using current on that circuit.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ashveal said:


> Neutrals are hot on most low voltages panels coming off of transformers that's are feed from 480/277 service.neutrals on the high voltage panel are not hot so im assuming the transformer is not grounded correctly b/c transformer derives its neutral from the ground?


Ill just leave this here in case you need it............

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come, 
thy will be done, 
on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us. 
And lead us not into temptation, 
but deliver us from evil. 
For thine is the kingdom, 
the power and the glory, 
for ever and ever. 
Amen.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Ill just leave this here in case you need it............
> 
> Our Father, who art in heaven,
> hallowed be thy name.
> ...


Good one...:laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

teddles38 said:


> Neutrals on both Single Phase and Three Phase circuits can get hot if there are non linear loads involved. We had an instance where a distribution board with 100 amp submains had a load of 45 to 50 amps on each of the three phases and the neutral had 130 amps. This was caused by the triplens being added to the neutral was of course was overloaded. The load on this DB was nearly all computer load and I understand that current requirement would need a double sized neutral to cover this situation.



You have made some correct statements but the HOT NEUTRAL leaves me scratching my head and say what to heck???????


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Hot neutral?

Hot in reference to what?

Fully load with a long branch circuit, there will be voltage between the neutral and ground due to voltage drop in the neutral conductor.

Hot in reference to other phases, Well there is a difference of potential between the neutral and the phase conductors.

Hot in reference to ground as in there is 120 VAC between the neutral and ground, BUT one of the phase conductors reads "0" VAC to ground. You have a ungrounded neutral and a grounded phase conductor.


But a hot neutral under normal operation????????


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

From reading your post, I would guess that the transformer XO terminal (the neutral) is not properly bonded to a grounding electrode. If the "neutral" is not bonded to "ground", it will be at a potential to ground or building steel similar to the phase conductors. I have seen this many times where someone will bond the transformer case, but not the XO terminal. Yes, there can be other causes, but check this first.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ashveal said:


> Neutrals are hot on most low voltages panels coming off of transformers that's are feed from 480/277 service.neutrals on the high voltage panel are not hot so im assuming the transformer is not grounded correctly b/c transformer derives its neutral from the ground?


The LV panels can have unbalanced loads which would mean a lot of neutral current, and "hot" neutrals. The HV panels may be pretty well balanced, which is why the neutrals aren't "hot." The temperatures of the two different neutrals aren't really related to each other.

Also "hot" is a relative term. Something can be very warm to us, and still be perfectly safe electrically. Some voltage and current measurements would really be helpful.

-John


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Ill just leave this here in case you need it............
> 
> Our Father, who art in heaven,
> hallowed be thy name.
> ...


 

If you don't want the opposers of your make believe fairy tale God to get offended, keep this joke of a book to yourself PLEASE.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> If you don't want the opposers of your make believe fairy tale God to get offended, keep this joke of a book to yourself PLEASE.


If one doesn't believe in God, how can one oppose him? And why would anyone be offended? It's like looking for a reason to be offended.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm as atheist as they get, and I like the bible. If people have no morals on an intellectual level, they can fall back to religion.

As for hot neutrals, maybe that's why we call them "identified conductors" in canada instead of neutrals. I think we only call them neutrals if they back up a balanced load. As in, an occasional shimmy or something.

That was one of the first things I asked as an apprentice. If a hot wire is going to a 5amp load, what is the neutral carrying? (5A) and where is it carrying it to? (earth, or back to the power plant through the earth, or some crazy thing like that).

And balanced loads return on the conductors.

Good stuff!!!!

And 480 told me that if you lose your neutral, your conductors' voltages can vary crazily!!! Good good stuff!!! I guess that's why I disconnect the hot first.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

ashveal said:


> ... Ok and another thing is when u touch a ground to neutral bar it arcs a little telling that the ground is a better neutral than the neutral which they have the same


No, it does not mean that...you have just created a parallel path and current will flow on all available paths.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

You will nearly always draw an arc between the neutral and the ground in a properly installed system. 

I would also like to know what the neutral is "hot" in reference to. In other words what were your voltage readings and where did you take them?


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Since the OP is not answering any of our questions and has not clarified what he means by "hot" (temperature? electrically? sexy? who knows?) I officially declare:










Time for a close...


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## Ziggy (Feb 2, 2011)

jrannis said:


> Ill just leave this here in case you need it............
> 
> Our Father, who art in heaven,
> hallowed be thy name.
> ...


LMFAO! That's awesome.


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> If you don't want the opposers of your make believe fairy tale God to get offended, keep this joke of a book to yourself PLEASE.


That was a stupid comment.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

CFL said:


> That was a stupid comment.


I am not a big believer BUT I can tell you that a lot of the services offered by churches make these people some special folks in my book.

I have yet to see a atheist food pantry, or thrift store assisting the homeless, unless it is supported by the state or feds. 

Some should not be so hard on those with different beliefs, to each their own.

And CFL I am supporting your statement.


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## Pangallo (Apr 14, 2012)

Had this happen twice. Once the demo guys removed the ground. The other time the trans was bad. Ground it and see if that helps. Make sure your lines are correct though. Dumb advice but dumb electrician blew out my trans b4.


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## electriciansandy (Nov 17, 2011)

brian john said:


> I am not a big believer BUT I can tell you that a lot of the services offered by churches make these people some special folks in my book.
> 
> I have yet to see a atheist food pantry, or thrift store assisting the homeless, unless it is supported by the state or feds.
> 
> ...



Totally agree! Blasting people for their beliefs is kinda dumb, cause at the end of the day an athiest chooses to believe their isn't a god, and a religious person chooses to believe there is one.

It's like debating who you think the next president should be. I believe it should be X, you believe it should be Y, and that's perfectly fine.

Let's just try to live with each other the best way possible. And let's just try to keep ET on topic :laughing:


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

is the neutral open between the panel and the trans? Are the phase voltage to neutral measurments close or way off? What is the ground to neutral voltage in the panel?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

ashveal said:


> Neutrals are hot on most low voltages panels coming off of transformers that's are feed from 480/277 service.neutrals on the high voltage panel are not hot so im assuming the transformer is not grounded correctly b/c transformer derives its neutral from the ground?


Neutrals in the correct application are not HOT.


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