# XHHW vs THWN ?



## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

THWN


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Years ago you had lower temperature but moisture resistant XHHW and dry location only but thinner, easier to pull THHN and can go 90 C. Now with THHN-2 it works in wet locations and XHHW-2 is 90 C. So it comes down to XHHWis easier to shape and THHN to pull.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Why does it seem like aluminum conductors are only commonly available in XHHW instead of THWN? Is there a specific reason for that?


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Why does it seem like aluminum conductors are only commonly available in XHHW instead of THWN? Is there a specific reason for that?


why put a expensive jacket on a cheap cable.


----------



## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

gpop said:


> why put a expensive jacket on a cheap cable.


I don’t understand what you mean. Aluminum is a cheaper conductor but it usually comes with the more expensive XHHW insulation. 

What I’m asking is why does aluminum conductors usually come in XHHW while copper usually comes in THWN?


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

HackWork said:


> I don’t understand what you mean. Aluminum is a cheaper conductor but it usually comes with the more expensive XHHW insulation.
> 
> What I’m asking is why does aluminum conductors usually come in XHHW while copper usually comes in THWN?


sorry i was wrong i always thought xhhm was the cheaper option on copper. 

Ive always gone with the default THHN-2 (dual rated) preferable with no lube jacket


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> I don’t understand what you mean. Aluminum is a cheaper conductor but it usually comes with the more expensive XHHW insulation.
> 
> What I’m asking is why does aluminum conductors usually come in XHHW while copper usually comes in THWN?


I've wondered the same thing. But this stops. Today.


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Umm...


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...anded-AL-SIMpull-THHN-Wire-56377002/206148111

Aluminum wire, THHN jacket.


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

paulengr said:


> Umm...
> 
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...anded-AL-SIMpull-THHN-Wire-56377002/206148111
> ...


No one is claiming aluminum never comes in THHN. The question is WHY does most aluminum come in XHHW?

All the aluminum single conductor I've ever bought was XHHW. I've only seen aluminum THHN on the internet. Why?


----------



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

[OP] Moot question anyway. Just learned my distributor only stocks copper in THWN and aluminum in XHHW. Ok then.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

mikewillnot said:


> [OP] Moot question anyway. Just learned my distributor only stocks copper in THWN and aluminum in XHHW. Ok then.


I'm wondering if that is "just the way it goes" or if it is done like that for a reason.

Such as "Copper is fine with a lesser insulation, but aluminum need better protection..."


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> I'm wondering if that is "just the way it goes" or if it is done like that for a reason.
> 
> Such as "Copper is fine with a lesser insulation, but aluminum need better protection..."


You're walking a fine line, mister. I guess it's about time for another go in the penalty box?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> You're walking a fine line, mister. I guess it's about time for another go in the penalty box?


I'm asking a genuine question you butt wipe. (I just posted about butt wipes so it seemed fitting here).


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> I'm asking a genuine question you butt wipe. (I just posted about butt wipes so it seemed fitting here).


Reported.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> Reported.


While doing that, maybe you should check your PMs and reply to those awesome people who took the time to send you something :vs_mad::vs_mad::vs_mad:


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> While doing that, maybe you should check your PMs and reply to those awesome people who took the time to send you something :vs_mad::vs_mad::vs_mad:


No one ever sends me stuff:sad:


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I'm wondering if that is "just the way it goes" or if it is done like that for a reason.
> 
> Such as "Copper is fine with a lesser insulation, *but aluminum needs better protection.*.."


 Maybe engineering specs coupled with industrial demand?
Maybe POCO demand for XHHW insulation on direct burial AL cable?
AL SE cable, the individual conductors, are they always XHHW?
In other words, same insulation on multiple products means lower production costs.


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Bird dog said:


> Maybe engineering specs coupled with industrial demand?
> Maybe POCO demand for XHHW insulation on direct burial AL cable?
> AL SE cable, the individual conductors, are they always XHHW?
> In other words, same insulation on multiple products means lower production costs.



The POCO answer is probably correct.

Wire machines are neat to see. It’s like doing a huge wire pull. Tons of spoils everywhere and it all converges down to one continuous machine. They can insert fillers, different combinations of wire, different insulation’s and sleeves. Almost any combination you want if you are willing to pay for it and meet the minimum order length. When you do, you cut out all the middle men and


----------



## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

​


HackWork said:


> I'm asking a genuine question you butt wipe. (I just posted about butt wipes so it seemed fitting here).


Is this a friendly fight... or is there a history between you two? :vs_laugh:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Quickservice said:


> ​
> Is this a friendly fight... or is there a history between you two? :vs_laugh:


If CoolWill was my friend, he would reply to my PMs :sad:


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> If CoolWill was my friend, he would reply to my PMs :sad:


I've left you several threatening and sexually explicit voicemails and you never reply so why should I reciprocate?


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Why does it seem like aluminum conductors are only commonly available in XHHW instead of THWN? Is there a specific reason for that?


You can get both but, XHHW is far superior for underground use it's thick and tough also, very slick to aid in pulling. I will not use THHN/THWN for underground feeders.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> You can get both but, XHHW is far superior for underground use it's thick and tough also, very slick to aid in pulling. I will not use THHN/THWN for underground feeders.


You’ve missed the point entirely.

It’s not just me, it seems common around the country that copper is commonly offered in THWN while aluminum is commonly offered in XHHW.

I asked at my supply house this morning and they do not have copper in XHHW nor do they have aluminum in THWN. I know that they can get it special order, but why doesn’t anyone stock it? That is my question.

Why does it seem like I have to spell out a simple question 15 times for some of you apes to understand it?


----------



## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

My guess is cost and reliability.

Copper with thhn/thwn is usually good enough and cheaper than copper with xhhw. Most choose whats cheap and works.

Aluminum is much more prone to damage so most want it in xhhw for the added protection.

Probably not a big enough demand for the SH to want to stock options that dont move quickly. To stock copper in xhhw in all common sizes would take up a lot of space(and money) and now most SH (at least in my area) can get non stocked items in 1-2 days from different warehouses/manufacturers. 

I have nothing to back this up, this is just my assumptions.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> You’ve missed the point entirely.
> 
> It’s not just me, it seems common around the country that copper is commonly offered in THWN while aluminum is commonly offered in XHHW.
> 
> ...


FFS. It's kind of obvious. It's basically butterface. They usually put the good insulation on the bad conductor and the bad insulation on the good conductor. Just like God usually gives ugly girls a great body and makes pretty girls fat. It's just fairness.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> You’ve missed the point entirely.
> 
> It’s not just me, it seems common around the country that copper is commonly offered in THWN while aluminum is commonly offered in XHHW.
> 
> ...


If the question is why? I tried to answer that question. As for where? I can find plenty of Copper XHHW but, not THHN in ALuminum. 
We purchase AL in 700 to 4/0 quite often. The only question we are asked is if we waany XHHW or XLPE. The XPLE can usually be direct buried, I haven't noticed XHHW rated for DB but we don't do much of that.
I can buy larger size quadplex with copper with XPLE but we try to design-build as not use copper except for ground wires at all if possible.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> If the question is why? I tried to answer that question.


 No, you did not.



> As for where?


 I didn't ask where.

I am not going to explain it to you again. You've been _HackWork Warned_.

I would HackWork Warn splatz too, but he doesn't have access to the Contro forum so he wouldn't know about the fiasco.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

HackWork said:


> _HackWork Warned_.


Don't start that again. Chicken Steve will go crying to the mods again :crying:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

JoeSparky said:


> Don't start that again. Chicken Steve will go crying to the mods again :crying:


It's not chicken steve, Travis is in Arizona.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

HackWork said:


> It's not chicken steve, Travis is in Arizona.


:no::no:

https://www.bandmix.com/steve-mancuso/


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

JoeSparky said:


> :no::no:
> 
> https://www.bandmix.com/steve-mancuso/


Anyone can find that pic, just as you did. He is definitely an old member, but not Steve.


----------



## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

HackWork said:


> _HackWork Warned_


OooOoOooo, tread lightly Southeast. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> OooOoOooo, tread lightly Southeast.


Apparently it is a big deal.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Why does it seem like aluminum conductors are only commonly available in XHHW instead of THWN? Is there a specific reason for that?


We ordered XHHW #10 and #8 copper for some rooftop work to avoid derating last year, I don't recall there being a long lead time. Maybe availability is regional?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

:wallbash:


HackWork said:


> No, you did not.
> 
> I didn't ask where.
> 
> ...


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> :wallbash:


You need to read slower, or get glasses.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

My SH has 22 results for XHHW copper in stock for next day delivery in cuts. Looked like they had #8 to 750mcm. Few cents more /ft than THHN


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> You need to read slower, or get glasses.


How does this get into being personal?
Here we go ya douche lord.:vs_laugh:
We know you buy your little resi crap from HD and Lowes, and no, I wouldn't expect them to carry wire real electricians use. So there. Go pound sand. :biggrin:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> How does this get into being personal?
> Here we go ya douche lord.:vs_laugh:
> We know you buy your little resi crap from HD and Lowes, and no, I wouldn't expect them to carry wire real electricians use. So there. Go pound sand. :biggrin:


I don’t buy much from either of those stores.

It’s not like I’m making this up, many other people have agreed that copper is commonly THWN and aluminum is commonly XHHW. I’m just asking why. Your post didn’t speak to that in any way.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I don’t buy much from either of those stores.
> 
> It’s not like I’m making this up, many other people have agreed that copper is commonly THWN and aluminum is commonly XHHW. I’m just asking why. Your post didn’t speak to that in any way.


You just:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Southeast Power said:


> You just:
> 
> https://youtu.be/DZfjysllZyg


Get your eyes checked.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I would HackWork Warn splatz too, but he doesn't have access to the Contro forum so he wouldn't know about the fiasco.


I don't have access. I applied for re-entry but my application was rejected by @Cricket.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> I don't have access. I applied for re-entry but my application was rejected by @Cricket.


Well, a very angry man named Travis gave multiple warns to the members of the forum about me. He called them HackWork Warnings. He is gone now, but I would like those warnings to continue.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Well, a very angry man named Travis gave multiple warns to the members of the forum about me. He called them HackWork Warnings. He is gone now, but I would like those warnings to continue.


Is there a way I can get automatic notifications when those occur?


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Maybe someone here can go over to holt's and get the real chicken man to make an appearance here. Not quite Travis, but still entertaining.


----------

