# Effectiveness of KN95 masks.



## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I do not know how to classify this post so I just put it under safety.
Today, Sunday I had a puff back on the boiler. Those who heat with oil will know what that is. So my project today was to clean the boiler which is a very dirty job if neglected. Usually I use a respirator but mine was in my truck and I did not want to get it. Besides we had 25 of the KN95 masks at the house. A neglected boiler has a lot of soot so by the time I was done, I was covered in it. As I washed up I cleared my nose, I could not believe how much black stuff came out. This got me thinking since soot particles are much larger than the Covids, soot you can see while the virus is microscopic, how effective could the masks be? Then again I could have bought some of the KN-95 that are below required standard. Does the K stand for knock-off?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Now you done it. You got the dreaded black lung. They'l be a sending you off to the old miners rest home in short order........


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> Now you done it. You got the dreaded black lung. They'l be a sending you off to the old miners rest home in short order........


Who can I sue ? Workers comp claim?
Black lung vs. The Covids?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Just sue Donald Trump . The judge will hear that case......


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

kb1jb1 said:


> I do not know how to classify this post so I just put it under safety.
> Today, Sunday I had a puff back on the boiler. Those who heat with oil will know what that is. So my project today was to clean the boiler which is a very dirty job if neglected. Usually I use a respirator but mine was in my truck and I did not want to get it. Besides we had 25 of the KN95 masks at the house. A neglected boiler has a lot of soot so by the time I was done, I was covered in it. As I washed up I cleared my nose, I could not believe how much black stuff came out. This got me thinking since soot particles are much larger than the Covids, soot you can see while the virus is microscopic, how effective could the masks be? Then again I could have bought some of the KN-95 that are below required standard. Does the K stand for knock-off?


Those KN masks are just for show. A P100 respirator will actually stop particles such as that. And the K stands for kooks.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Was your nose sticking out like most peoples are? Seriously, no mask or respirator is going to be effective unless it’s been fitted to you. Now do you want to know what the mask is really effective for?


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Stinky masks are the mark of submission, not for viral protection. Legit ones usually have that marked right on the box, I'm told.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

kb1jb1 said:


> I do not know how to classify this post so I just put it under safety.
> Today, Sunday I had a puff back on the boiler. Those who heat with oil will know what that is. So my project today was to clean the boiler which is a very dirty job if neglected. Usually I use a respirator but mine was in my truck and I did not want to get it. Besides we had 25 of the KN95 masks at the house. A neglected boiler has a lot of soot so by the time I was done, I was covered in it. As I washed up I cleared my nose, I could not believe how much black stuff came out. This got me thinking since soot particles are much larger than the Covids, soot you can see while the virus is microscopic, how effective could the masks be? Then again I could have bought some of the KN-95 that are below required standard. Does the K stand for knock-off?


If you are following OSHA and respirator trained and fit tested this is part of the training. You would have learned about different kinds, what cartridges you need, etc. Plus the medical screening. That’s why anyone who needed respirators when the government stole them knew it was bull hockey and was pissed and in many cases refused work for safety reasons.

N-95 is the North American spec. KN-95 is the Chinese spec and guaranteed it was tested there. Guess how many fail? There is a slightly worse spec for KN-95 but the big issue here isn’t that.

Masks are for nuisance dust only. They are for dry wallers where the dust will make you cough and gag but is not hazardous. If you are exposed to ANY hazard (welding fumes, carcinogenic soot, asbestos, silicosis, etc.) you need a respirator, or better.

Let’s put it this way. That “95” means if let’s 5% of anything 1 micron or larger through. No upper limit!! That’s because they don’t seal. And by the way viruses are a lot smaller. And since there is no seal guarantee it’s at best a **** in the dark.

The base line minimum cartridge for a respirator is a P100. As in it stops “100%” (well 99.9% rounded off) of 1 micron particles and does pretty decent at everything else. They come in different sizes and you are supposed to be fit tested which means they check how well it seals to your face. Since whatever-95 doesn’t seal it doesn’t matter anyway.

This is by the way why everyone that is trained knows that whatever-95 is a step up from going cowboy with a handkerchief but only a step. That’s why the whole mask confusion thing is such a joke. It’s like arguing whether to use a 1 gallon or 3 gallon bucket to put out a house fire.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I had a cheapy lowes respirator and it worked good for what it was. That got lost at some point. I'd like to get another, but this time get a name brand, guessing 3M, and get fitted for it. Any kind of disposable mask fogs up my glasses and I'm assuming a good fitted one won't. Where do you go to get fitted for one. All I know is any mask makes me feel a whole lot better when working in unfinished basements full of pink fiberglass or attics for that matter.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I had a cheapy lowes respirator and it worked good for what it was. That got lost at some point. I'd like to get another, but this time get a name brand, guessing 3M, and get fitted for it. Any kind of disposable mask fogs up my glasses and I'm assuming a good fitted one won't. Where do you go to get fitted for one. All I know is any mask makes me feel a whole lot better when working in unfinished basements full of pink fiberglass or attics for that matter.


Go to an auto parts supply house that sells paint. They will have everything you need. Not the run of the mill big chain store but a real deal one.


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## Vladaar (Mar 9, 2021)

3M N95 masks is like taking a piece of styro foam and putting it over your face. If it's sealed like it supposed to be, it dramatically reduces the amount of oxygen you can get.

Not a fan, I think the respirator is the ticket if you need to work somewhere sketchy.


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## aidonius (Jul 10, 2018)

the only thing you should be wearing in a situation like that is a respirator with a p100 cartridge after getting a fit test.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> I had a cheapy lowes respirator and it worked good for what it was. That got lost at some point. I'd like to get another, but this time get a name brand, guessing 3M, and get fitted for it. Any kind of disposable mask fogs up my glasses and I'm assuming a good fitted one won't. Where do you go to get fitted for one. All I know is any mask makes me feel a whole lot better when working in unfinished basements full of pink fiberglass or attics for that matter.


To test the fit of your respirator, they have a thing that looks like an incense stick. If it gets around the seal you will cough.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)




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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

backstay said:


> To test the fit of your respirator, they have a thing that looks like an incense stick. If it gets around the seal you will cough.


That's how they test our N-95's. The real ones ,Green 3M brand, and they have to be fitted. There's about six different sizes. There's also a spray that smells like bananas, and it irritates if the mask leaks.

You know when they're sealed because you can't wear them very long with out gasping for air. ( Well, I can't). As previously posted, if your glasses/goggles are fogging up then the mask isn't working.

KN-95's are Chinese junk.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

N95's made by 3M were sold for dust masks. I used them in the before times, doing anything that would raise dust/dirt in the air. I have a full face mask with 2 replaceable cartridges that I use when cleaning transformers in vaults. I have been in the vault upwards of 4 hours and never had a issue. I throw way the filters after the use. I can get lots of different filters for the rig and have 3 kinds in the bag where I keep the mask. I sure as hell would not wear it in public unless I was working.

I have a friend who has been a surgeon for 20 years. He says using a paper mask and even some N95's is like trying to stop a river with a chain link fence. 
I refuse to purchase anything that says KN95 on the filter. I figure the China virus will not contained/filtered by a China mask.









SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) by the numbers


The COVID-19 pandemic is a harsh reminder of the fact that, whether in a single human host or a wave of infection across continents, viral dynamics is often a story about the numbers. In this article we provide a one-stop, curated graphical source for ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov





Does anyone remember forgetful Biden when he stood and said cloth masks were going to help? I guess I should not kick a guy who has done so much for the USA.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Signal1 said:


> That's how they test our N-95's. The real ones ,Green 3M brand, and they have to be fitted. There's about six different sizes. There's also a spray that smells like bananas, and it irritates if the mask leaks.
> 
> You know when they're sealed because you can't wear them very long with out gasping for air. ( Well, I can't). As previously posted, if your glasses/goggles are fogging up then the mask isn't working.
> 
> KN-95's are Chinese junk.


Here we have to have a spirometry test and be at 80% of expected values before we can wear a respirator. 
The masks are for Nuisance dust only. 
That banana scent only makes me hungry. 

I had to wear one for years even thought it leaked.
OSHA showed up to quiz us once about our safety program. We all answered honestly and we looked great.
We got to the end and they asked if we had any questions. I raised my hand and asked if a little leakage is ok. They said no it’s not ok.
I told them that mine had leaked since day one and I was told it was fine. They thanked me and sent me on my way. 
15 minutes later the boss called and said your off the respirator program. Hmmmm kind of funny works.

The self powered one is far better. But anything is better then nothing.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

1: for the back draft of the chimney. Check the top vent as well for build up or debris/nesting critters.

Check the interior as well. This will prevent unknown problems in future.

2: post 17 has it right, in that situation. anything is better than nothing. Hard to get the oils and acids from the lung wall lining.

I’m looking for a surplus NASA space helmet, hook up a supply air and your good to go.👌 if the right grade, can sub as a hard hat! (He,he).

but serously, back in the day I would just breathe through a short garden hose run outside. When it was real bad. Not OSHA compliant. But they did not have teeth back then.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

backstay said:


> Was your nose sticking out like most peoples are? Seriously, no mask or respirator is going to be effective unless it’s been fitted to you. Now do you want to know what the mask is really effective for?


One effective use of the masks is to not be able to identify people who do the non monetary or no compensation retail transactions. AKA looting.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

nrp3 said:


> I had a cheapy lowes respirator and it worked good for what it was. That got lost at some point. I'd like to get another, but this time get a name brand, guessing 3M, and get fitted for it. Any kind of disposable mask fogs up my glasses and I'm assuming a good fitted one won't. Where do you go to get fitted for one. All I know is any mask makes me feel a whole lot better when working in unfinished basements full of pink fiberglass or attics for that matter.


Call the local fire department. They are often involved. Also several places I’ve worked 3M actually did it.

3M is certainly the big name and most expensive. The 6800 is very popular. North is the other one I see and it’s supposed to be more comfortable. MSA is OK.

There are 3 parts to “doing it right” according to OSHA. There is of course paperwork. You are supposed to get a pulmonary function test to ensure you have the lung capacity. You blow into a machine while it measures the air flow. I had a lung X ray too for some companies but not all. And you are supposed to have a fit test. There are two ways they do fit tests. With one they rig your face mask with sensors and measure leakage. The other way is putting a bag over your head and spraying a bit of banana oil or bitrex up in there. Both are incredibly nasty tasting and will make you gag. Then you do things like smile, count to ten, stand up, touch your toes…anything to distort the mask.

However, I find it MUCH more comfortable and easier to breath in a respirator than ANY mask, even full face. I don’t understand why anyone would complain. I’ve worked in what I would consider “pure silicosis” and worse for pretty much all day in a respirator with no issues at all except that I often get pimples where the rubber rides on my face and rubs dirt into the pores.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

paulengr said:


> Call the local fire department. They are often involved. Also several places I’ve worked 3M actually did it.
> 
> 3M is certainly the big name and most expensive. The 6800 is very popular. North is the other one I see and it’s supposed to be more comfortable. MSA is OK.
> 
> ...


Years back I had a job at a pharmaceutical company where one of my jobs was in a very dusty area. Nothing toxic, just 20 year old dust. When I asked for a simple silicone respirator my supervisor said no and gave me those useless face masks. They did not want to spring for the medical and fit testing. Before all the safety training and record keeping they would have said yes. Sometimes people shoot themselves in the foot and complain it hurts. The task never got done.
I can understand the medical and fit testing for hazardous or toxic environments but not for dust like when you cut the grass.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Have your apprentice do the sweeping. 
that’s why we start them young isn’t it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

There was an article on this the other day. There are a lot of knock off or should I say counterfeit N-95 and K-95 masks. There is an article that tells you how to determine if they are authentic.

Kn95 is an international designation and has not been graded by US agencies.









Counterfeit N95 and KN95 face masks: How can you spot fakes?


Respirators can help protect against COVID-19, but first you have to sort the real deals from the fakes.




www.cbsnews.com


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Dennis Alwon said:


> There was an article on this the other day. There are a lot of knock off or should I say counterfeit N-95 and K-95 masks. There is an article that tells you how to determine if they are authentic.
> 
> Kn95 is an international designation and has not been graded by US agencies.
> 
> ...


Last summer there was a news article about testing the KN95 masks. In some areas there was 60% failure rate. Some only tested to 20 % efficiency. At first N95 were made in the US to US standards. Now they are made who knows where.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

kb1jb1 said:


> Last summer there was a news article about testing the KN95 masks. In some areas there was 60% failure rate. Some only tested to 20 % efficiency. At first N95 were made in the US to US standards. Now they are made who knows where.


I just got some free 3M brand N95’s at the pharmacy yesterday. They gave me a hand full when I picked up a script. Made in the US.


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