# Taken to the cleaners



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

50 fixtures, 1/3 on on chains/ 1/3 pans in row on cieling, 1/3 2x4 lay ins in drop ceiling .Complete in one long day myself and two helpers working a good *** ***** day. This is the POCO rebate lighting program, the utility co reimberses the customer for the price of the fixtures . They were happy.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> 50 fixtures, 1/3 on on chains/ 1/3 pans in row on cieling, 1/3 2x4 lay ins in drop ceiling .Complete in one long day myself and two helpers working a good non union day. This is the POCO rebate lighting program, the utility co reimberses the customer for the price of the fixtures . They were happy.


So did you get paid?:blink:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> So did you get paid?:blink:


Did very good, started at 7am and got it done by 7 pm. Slave driving paid off.:thumbsup:


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

It must be me, I'm getting old,

but,

WTF did you do? 


Photograph 50 lights in a day?

Big FD.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> It must be me, I'm getting old,
> 
> but,
> 
> ...


 Replaced 50 light fixtures with t8s , gave him a new layout and added some switches.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I thought the deadline for the lighting rebates was over. We fininshed a store in Raleigh around Feb. and the lighting contractor was pushing us so they could get it done before the cutoff.

Maybe it was a government kick back instead of the POC.....I dont remember.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Replaced 50 light fixtures with t8s , gave him a new layout and added some switches.



Then I call BS.

No way 3 guys can do 50 some fiixtures and add switches, in that place in one day.

No way.....


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> Then I call BS.
> 
> No way 3 guys can do 50 some fiixtures and add switches, in that place in one day.
> 
> No way.....


You must be a slow worker ? BTW it was two guys and a gal. We work as a well oiled machine under my guidance.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> You must be a slow worker ?


I actually am. I do a ton of planning, and very little work.



Shockdoc said:


> BTW it was two guys and a gal.


Was she hot? got any pics?




Shockdoc said:


> We work as a well oiled machine under my guidance.



Yeah, I'm sure you're quite the Field General. 

If anything, I think you're taking us to the cleaners with this one.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> I actually am. I do a ton of planning, and very little work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the difference, I plan and work. As for the gal, my wife who can hold her own in this field.
My helper, a guy who's been on and off in this field for 20 years now, we were doing lighting retro/change outs back in the early 90s together. 
Troffers take an average of 15 minutes to replace. Pans inline also take an average of 15 minutes ea. The only fixtures that took more time are those industrials on chain pictured. We started that room at 7 am and finished it by 9:40 am. It's called the NY hustle, we run circles around Pennsyltuckians. Your'e also gonna tell me it's impossible for me to rough in a custom home w/ 30 hihats in 2.5 days too.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

I have to ask did you pipe the entire job? Or did you just BX the whole thing.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

SVT CAMR said:


> I have to ask did you pipe the entire job? Or did you just BX the whole thing.


I MCd out of existing boxes for most of it, in one place I snaked NM over the sheetrock to pick up a new row. I piped the run shown to add a Sw leg for those three lights.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> That's the difference, I plan and work. As for the gal, my wife who can hold her own in this field.


Give the woman credit, she's better than you isn't she?
Be honest now.



Shockdoc said:


> My helper, a guy who's been on and off in this field for 20 years now, we were doing lighting retro/change outs back in the early 90s together.


cmon...

I find it hard to believe that 20+yrs ago, energy prices for lighting and the need for retrofits, even existed or enough to make a business out of it.
But I'll talk your word on it.



Shockdoc said:


> Troffers take an average of 15 minutes to replace. Pans inline also take an average of 15 minutes ea.


Not a chance. Not with the pics you posted. There is a ton of ladder work. 



Shockdoc said:


> we run circles around Pennsyltuckians.


No doubt. I eat too many tastykakes to want to run anywhere.


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

Is that a phone jack on the ceiling, and an orange wirenut to boot? ugh


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> Give the woman credit, she's better than you isn't she?
> Be honest now.
> 
> 
> ...


4' and 6' ladders:blink:
20 years ago Con Ed was offering rebates on lighting change outs on 96"T12 s
My wife is awesome, she unpackaged, layed out fixtures, cut whips, chained lights, pulled wires, disposed of the old removed pans. We kicked azz for a 12 hour day.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jeffmoss26 said:


> Is that a phone jack on the ceiling, and an orange wirenut to boot? ugh


Some bell/buzzer contraption.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Did very good, _*started at 7am and got it done by 7 pm.*_ Slave driving paid off.:thumbsup:


So 12 hours? Or.........:



Dnkldorf said:


> Then I call BS.
> 
> No way 3 guys can do 50 some fiixtures and add switches, in that place in one day.
> 
> No way.....


I call BS too, because note the differences in total time highlighted above and below:



Shockdoc said:


> That's the difference, I plan and work. As for the gal, my wife who can hold her own in this field.
> My helper, a guy who's been on and off in this field for 20 years now, we were doing lighting retro/change outs back in the early 90s together.
> Troffers take an average of 15 minutes to replace. Pans inline also take an average of 15 minutes ea. The only fixtures that took more time are those industrials on chain pictured. We _*started that room at 7 am and finished it by 9:40 am. *_It's called the NY hustle, we run circles around Pennsyltuckians. Your'e also gonna tell me it's impossible for me to rough in a custom home w/ 30 hihats in 2.5 days too.


Or 26.75 Hours? :whistling2:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mxslick said:


> So 12 hours? Or.........:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


12 hours , 4 rooms. 1 room industrials, 2 rooms 8' pan rows. 1 room 2x4 layins. Call it what you like. He shut his business for me for the day , we promised 1 day and delivered. I was ready to work till 12 last night if needed.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Dnkldorf said:


> cmon...
> 
> I find it hard to believe that 20+yrs ago, energy prices for lighting and the need for retrofits, even existed or enough to make a business out of it.
> But I'll talk your word on it.


In the mid 90's I changed out tons of fixtures in a university and hi-rise office buildings here in NJ .....rebates were the name of the game.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


>



Reminds me of the 1st EC I ever worked for...
One of his "specialties" was wiring up sweat shops :thumbsup:


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

I dont see what the big deal is... If someone knows how to organize a crew and take advantage of peoples strengths and make use of repitition I think this time frame is realistic. Just cant have people bsing around.

Smaller motivated teams can get done far more than the average larger crew that just wants to clock in and clock out.


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> 50 fixtures, 1/3 on on chains/ 1/3 pans in row on cieling, 1/3 2x4 lay ins in drop ceiling .Complete in one long day myself and two helpers working a good non union day. This is the POCO rebate lighting program, the utility co reimberses the customer for the price of the fixtures . They were happy.


 What kind of nest in the last picture ? 

Nice job with all that stuff in the way.


Don


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

electrictim510 said:


> I dont see what the big deal is... If someone knows how to organize a crew and take advantage of peoples strengths and make use of repitition I think this time frame is realistic. Just cant have people bsing around.
> 
> Smaller motivated teams can get done far more than the average larger crew that just wants to clock in and clock out.


Yes, while that is true, let's relook at things.

Most of those lights are on jack chain....large chain at that. It appears that he drills a hole in the side of the fixture for this chain to go through. 

Lets say 12hr day, I think that's the time.
3 people. Him, his wife, and a buddy whose been on and off in the trade for 20+ yrs, and who has done this before. Someone had to un-carton the lights, snap them together, and pre-drill holes for the chain.
Someone is taking down lights at this time, and he is adding switches.
They have to move things, take down lights, put together 50 new ones, remove bulbs, and put all the news ones up. 2 people doing lights.
That's handling (8) fixtures and hour.

While this is a fine job, I call BS. Can't be done under these premises.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> Lets say 12hr day, I think that's the time.
> 3 people. Him, his wife, and a buddy whose been on and off in the trade for 20+ yrs, and who has done this before. Someone had to un-carton the lights, snap them together, and pre-drill holes for the chain.
> Someone is taking down lights at this time, and he is adding switches.
> They have to move things, take down lights, put together 50 new ones, remove bulbs, and put all the news ones up. 2 people doing lights.
> That's handling (8) fixtures and hour.


50/3/12=1.3 fixtures per hour, per person ..........

Well within possible.


Or, being shockdoc it could be a line of crap


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

BBQ said:


> 50/3/12=1.3 fixtures per hour, per person ..........
> 
> Well within possible.
> 
> ...


Bob, he was adding switches. Between setting people up, and adding these new switches, let's say 1/2 a day gone for him not having anything to do with taking down, or installing lights.

That's 2 people. One taking the new ones out, drilling holes, and snapping them together, while the other person is on a ladder taking down bulbs and lights.

Also add that he replaced 50, meaning he took out 50, and put up 50 new ones. That's a 100 light total.

I just don't see it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> Bob, he was adding switches. Between setting people up, and adding these new switches, let's say 1/2 a day gone for him not having anything to do with taking down, or installing lights.
> 
> That's 2 people. One taking the new ones out, drilling holes, and snapping them together, while the other person is on a ladder taking down bulbs and lights.
> 
> ...


That's where I got you, if you notice ,I left quit a few pan lights in place. The chained fixtures removed 123. Adding switches was 1 new pipe run of 30' and pulling additional thhn through another conduit. I did exaggerate however there were 47 fixtures total. If you work without breaking and beat the sh*t out out of yourself it is possible. We did it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

electrictim510 said:


> I dont see what the big deal is... If someone knows how to organize a crew and take advantage of peoples strengths and make use of repitition I think this time frame is realistic. Just cant have people bsing around.
> 
> Smaller motivated teams can get done far more than the average larger crew that just wants to clock in and clock out.


Motivation is money, we split $2650 for a 12 hour day for labor and split pay for my wife a few hundred.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> *Motivation is money*, we split $2650 for a 12 hour day for labor and split pay for my wife a few hundred.


Yes sir, it is! Our company is ran this way and it works out pretty darn well. We had a decent sized job last year that we ended up doing in 7 days (long days) which was half what our competition had bid for and we fit in a bunch of change orders to boot. Ended up being 50% higher bill due to changes. Got paid well for what I did and got a $3000 bonus for the hard work I put in. I already knew my boss was good for showing appreciation for hard work and it was a new client that benefited from us getting done fast so it was a WIN WIN WIN!


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> Bob, he was adding switches. Between setting people up, and adding these new switches, let's say 1/2 a day gone for him not having anything to do with taking down, or installing lights.
> 
> That's 2 people. One taking the new ones out, drilling holes, and snapping them together, while the other person is on a ladder taking down bulbs and lights.
> 
> ...


I also work in the Poconos, I know how long things can take . I also know how little time things can take too.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

:laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Motivation is money, we split $2650 for a 12 hour day for labor and split pay for my wife a few hundred.


small hit & run crews ride the crest of the universal axiom _good fast cheap_ in biz Doc

The Tamiya gunners figured this out back 60 odd years ago , not that i'd equate your good name to theirs, it's the efficacy they employed that stood out.....

~CS~


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

You paid a part time helper over $100/hr to help you install lights?

This whole thread is BS. It just keeps getting deeper.

Who in business, pays a part time helper, over $100 hr?

BS....


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

if it was incentive toward getting the gold, i'd offer it too Dnkldorf

~CS~


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> You paid a part time helper over $100/hr to help you install lights?
> 
> This whole thread is BS. It just keeps getting deeper.
> 
> ...


He's really not a helper after all, he's an unlicensed electrician who has a truck, tools, stock and even wc. To boot he has connections with a lighting salesman. The things he lacks his a license and experience in commercial/industrial work. We went in half on this one as we do on many others so it got split right down the middle. Maybe if you left your mad scientist workshop with your lighting contraptions and got out there you wouldn't be so damn jealous to knock everything around you. I had a scientist workshop like yours when i was 12 yrs old with an array of stolen streetlights, LPS fixtures, traffic signals and the like. Time to grow up.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Shockdoc is a complete moron, that being said I think what he posted is completely reasonable.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Shockdoc is a complete moron, that being said I think what he posted is completely reasonable.


Still can't stop calling people names huh?


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Shockdoc is no more of a moron than anyone else on this forum, especially those throwing around the word "moron" so easily.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

better to be a moron eating fillet mignon, than a mad scientist eating beans says I.....~CS~


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## T-Bart (Jun 24, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Still can't stop calling people names huh?


Still can't help but jump him everytime he post huh?


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Still can't stop calling people names huh?


Still can't shut ur f-in pie hole very time I post huh?

Ok so who had Butt Banging Queer for 16 mins response time?

Congratulations to slickvic you just won yourself a xxxxxxxxxx coffee mug


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Shockdoc is a complete moron, that being said I think what he posted is completely reasonable.


 I don't play by the rules. I love being hated by those who do play by the rules.:laughing:

I see many here had a boring childhood.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

capitalism has rules Doc? ....how quaint... ~CS~


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## T-Bart (Jun 24, 2011)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Still can't shut ur f-in pie hole very time I post huh?
> 
> Ok so who had Butt Banging Queer for 16 mins response time?
> 
> Congratulations to slickvic you just won yourself a electrician j o b talk coffee mug


I called 22. Pretty sure someone else called 15


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Still can't shut ur f-in pie hole very time I post huh?
> 
> Ok so who had Butt Banging Queer for 16 mins response time?
> 
> Congratulations to slickvic you just won yourself a electrician j o b talk coffee mug


So angry, do you kiss your momma with that mouth?

And you are welcome Vic.:thumbup:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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