# Kitchen wiring with pics



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Here is a kitchen I rewired yesterday. They had a plumbing issue in the bathroom above this kitchen and had several thousand gallons of water fall from the the bathroom through the kitchen ceiling (and walls) until it started filling up the basement. It was pretty bad, they even brought mold specialist types do whatever it is they do. This is a two-family "dwelling" and I'm also doing the service here after the New Year. Thank you Captkirk! :thumbsup:

Pic #1) I prefer to run my cables north and south if at all possible to limit the possibility of having damaged wires. If I have an issue later from one box to the next the cables are accessible from the basement. Sure I use some more copper to do this but the job turns out neater and I'm not like a butcher going around making whole all over the place. 



















See the cable here going west and east? That is how the kitchen on the other side of this wall was wired. The cable itself gets pinched in between cast iron plumbing waste stack and sheetrock. This is another reason for wiring north to south. I'm just pointing it out that this issue comes up often. Believe me, for 15 years I wired kitchens just like that. There are better ways to do everything!










Five recessed lights (Juno) controlled by (2) 3-way switches and (1) ceiling fan controlled by single pole switch. 

Is 14/3 NM in a ceiling fan-rated box a box fill violation?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Are those Slater boxes?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Hells yes!


No Carlon crap here.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

good looking work:thumbsup:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I believe you are fine with 14/3 nm in a fan box. If it weren't good then the box ain't worth a damn.

How far are those cans from that fan. They look a little close- I would worry about strobe. I guess you can always add eyeball trims and angle the bulb away if it is a problem.

Nice work BTW


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

The wiring looks good but the plumbing looks hack.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Those biscuit boxes have a fill of 6cubic inches( i think) It would be a violation. But, I do it all the time.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Those biscuit boxes have a fill of 6cubic inches( i think) It would be a violation. But, I do it all the time.


Pancake boxes are a little bigger however to allieviate that problem:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Looks good.. is that balloon framing?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Those biscuit boxes have a fill of 6cubic inches( i think) It would be a violation. But, I do it all the time.



That's exactly right, it is a violation. 


The recessed lights are far away from the center of the fan to not cause the strobe effect. I checked for that. :thumbsup:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Looks good.. is that balloon framing?


What is balloon framing??


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

nolabama said:


> What is balloon framing??


 
The 2X4 goes through the kitchen floor and rests on the rim joist in the basement

Normal framing has a 2X4 plate on the floor sheathing and you build the wall from there


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

It's NOT balloon framed. 

Balloon Framing


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> The wiring looks good but the plumbing looks hack.


The plumber hasn't been there yet, least not for this kitchen he hasn't. Let's hope he isn't a moron who needs any of my stuff moved because I'm leaving for vacation next week.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> It's NOT balloon framed.
> 
> Balloon Framing


I'm looking where the oven goes.. looks like blocks of wood between the studs down on the floor line


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Work looks good.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I'm looking where the oven goes.. looks like blocks of wood between the studs down on the floor line


Do you mean here?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Do you mean here?


yes....


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

There's definitely a continuous floor plate. To be honest it might be an old ballooned farmed home. The panel was right below where the kitchen is so I didn't have much snaking to do here so I'm not 100% certain.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> That's exactly right, it is a violation.


I would argue the canopy on the fan allows for the additional conductor.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


> I would argue the canopy on the fan allows for the additional conductor.


 That is the way they look at it around here.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

JayH said:


> I would argue the canopy on the fan allows for the additional conductor.


You could if it is marked with it's cubic inches:thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

JayH said:


> I would argue the canopy on the fan allows for the additional conductor.


I'll keep that in mind if the inspector challenges the install.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> I'll keep that in mind if the inspector challenges the install.


If he challenges that, he is a d-bag:thumbsup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> If he challenges that, he is a d-bag:thumbsup:


 I agree. He would be a douch bag.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

You never know these days.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

JayH said:


> I would argue the canopy on the fan allows for the additional conductor.


What if they decide to install a keyless....? Can you really guarantee that there will be a fan installed there. And in the future to.? If the wires dont fit with the present set up your SOL in my book. But in all honesty that's a pretty minor infraction....they usually let that one slide. Unless of course your working in Montclair NJ. The inspector there might even throw in a tongue lashing to boot.....
And FWIW im not a big fan on the slatter boxes. Only because of the flimsy little piece of metal that holds the device in place. It seems that the devices always seem to come loose, especially if appliances are constantly plugged in and out. At least with the blue boxes the 6/32's seem to hold better.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Nice job!


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Are the slaters the ones you can just give the screw a good push and then tighten it a half turn?


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

There are ways to get more box fill when centering a fan on a joist. 

Here's one:

http://www.aifittingsproto.com/whnew77.htm

Deeper (that's what she said)

http://www.aifittingsproto.com/whnew56.htm

I use this style a lot for outdoor wall mounting when the perfect place for the light is right on the stud:

http://www.arlcatalog.com/Fan_Fixture/Fan Fixture Mounting Box lowest cost L-shaped.htm

The Arlington catalog also has some that fit over the joist like a saddle.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Are the slaters the ones you can just give the screw a good push and then tighten it a half turn?


Yeah. "Quick Cliks" or something like that.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

egads said:


> There are ways to get more box fill when centering a fan on a joist.



I was thinking the same thing.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Magnettica, IMO I would put one more block on that switch box. You only alowing them 3" for trim around door.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> That's exactly right, it is a violation.
> 
> 
> The recessed lights are far away from the center of the fan to not cause the strobe effect. I checked for that. :thumbsup:


 
No it's not.

You also get to use the cu in in the canopy.

If you get a fan with a small canopy, it could be, but most canopies are more than large enough.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Magnettica, IMO I would put one more block on that switch box. You only alowing them 3" for trim around door.


Sorry..... the second block of wood wasn't in the budget :laughing:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

The designers at at Arlington are brilliant.
Good job there, got any box close up photos?:thumbsup:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Sorry..... the second block of wood wasn't in the budget :laughing:


Spoken like a true contractor. Cheap bastard


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

heel600 said:


> .......You also get to use the cu in in the canopy. .........


According to...........?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

480sparky said:


> According to...........?


me:jester:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> You could if it is marked with it's cubic inches:thumbsup:


 yeah that's no exit strategy...they could change fixtures later on; it's like stuffing a 3way into a handy box: too many wires! I love the whole north south idea.:thumbsup:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

heel600 said:


> No it's not.
> 
> You also get to use the cu in in the canopy.
> 
> If you get a fan with a small canopy, it could be, but most canopies are more than large enough.


I've never seen a canopy marked with it's capacity.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> yeah that's no exit strategy...they could change fixtures later on; it's like stuffing a 3way into a handy box: too many wires! I love the whole north south idea.:thumbsup:


Not sure what you are saying here.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I've never seen a canopy marked with it's capacity.


Easily solved: :laughing:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I carry metal stamps with me .... just saying...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

^^

it's worked for me. Little more wire but it's good.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

480sparky said:


> According to...........?


 
the guy at home depot who works there, who used to work with his uncle, who used to work for the POCO one summer reading meters.

I checked my 2005 NEC, andI couldn't find it. 

Either I can't find it, it changed from years ago, or I'm getting old.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Easily solved: :laughing:


 
:laughing: another problem solving post :thumbup:


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

The joist bracing typically is in the middle of the span. I always thought we couldn't drill in the center third of the span? True?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jw0445 said:


> The joist bracing typically is in the middle of the span. I always thought we couldn't drill in the center third of the span? True?


Well, we as electricians can't. But it sure seems plumbers and tinners can butcher them all up with no problems.

I've seen them _completely_ remove entire sections of a joist to run ducts & pipes, yet inspectors seem to have an issue with my little 7/8" hole.

If at all possible, I like to keep my holes within 18" of a load-bearing wall or post.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Looks great Magnettica. Loving the north/south wiring. I don't do alot of ressi but that's the way I wire office fit-ups etc.(Up in the drop ceiling) So easy to make an outlet a dedicated circuit later on.


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