# NYC Code- MC or AC?



## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

Roughing in outlets in a basement in NYC.
Couple of questions:

1- Is MC 12/2 with a separate green ground ok? 
(I was advised 12/2 AC with the AC as a ground is no longer acceptable)

2- On a 20A circuit, light use, is 10 outlets per circuit acceptable? The circuits alternate outlets so outlet 1 is circuit 1 outlet 2 is circuit 2, outlet 3 is circuit 1, outlet 4 is circuit 2, etc.

3- Roughing in a 10/3 30A line for an AC or heater. Can regular BX/AC box be used or does it have to be a larger square box with separate connectors. 

Thanks.

LW


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

NYC minimum is 12 AC 
Lighting circuits fused at 15 amperes.
Duplex bx connectors not permitted where red head cannot be observed for inspection.
No more than 3) receptacles per counter circuit.
Boxes rated by cu inch fill per conductors as per last question.


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

Confused.

Can I use 12/2 metallic cable (aluminum) which has 3 wires (white black green) inside for receptacles instead of 12/2 armored cable where the cable and runner wire acts as a ground? Was told I could.

Thanks.

LW


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Do you hold any Nassau town or local county licenses ?


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

This is in NYC.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Loosewire said:


> This is in NYC.


I know it's NYC , are you an Electrical Contractor from outside NYC ?


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## administr8tor (Mar 6, 2010)

Doesn't sound like an electrician, these are basic questions:whistling2:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

administr8tor said:


> Doesn't sound like an electrician, these are basic questions:whistling2:


I kind a figured that at post 3 . When i catch a mouse, i torture it before i kill it.


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks for answering my questions.

LW


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Are you an apprentice as you state?

Is this homework or side work?


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

Go back to kindergarten :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

randas said:


> Go back to kindergarten :laughing:


Play nice, the guy may be coming here to learn something, the basic premise of this forum.

Though if this is a side job, you may be in over your head.


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

brian john said:


> Play nice, the guy may be coming here to learn something, the basic premise of this forum.
> 
> Though if this is a side job, you may be in over your head.


Side job Brian, just want to know if 12/2 MC I got is ok, or 12/2 AC mandated by 330.

Thanks.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Loosewire said:


> Side job Brian, just want to know if 12/2 MC I got is ok, or 12/2 AC mandated by 330.
> 
> Thanks.


It just seems a basic question for someone wanting to do a side job, How long in the trade?


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

ok, seems I wont get an answer. Thanks anyway.

LW


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

If anyone would give me the courtesy of an answer to my question regarding the permissibility of MC 12/2 w ground vs AC 12/2 in NYC I would be most appreciative.

(Ignores the insults and moves on).

LW


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

When he is asking questions like this believe me he is not NYC EC, I know electrical engineer's that couldn't pass that exam.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Lighting circuits fused at 15 amperes.
> Duplex bx connectors not permitted where red head cannot be observed for inspection.
> No more than 3) receptacles per counter circuit.


Where did you get that info from? I never heard of lighting circuits being fused at 15 A. 

Not sure about the second one about redheads either. 

And 3 receptacles per counter circuit? Also, news to me. 

I'm genuinely curious though so if you could let me know I would appreciate it.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Sparky3 said:


> When he is asking questions like this believe me he is not NYC EC, I know electrical engineer's that couldn't pass that exam.


A question like this would most likely NOT even appear on the NYC exam. That's a fact.


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

GDK 13 said:


> Where did you get that info from? I never heard of lighting circuits being fused at 15 A.
> 
> Not sure about the second one about redheads either.
> 
> ...


I don't believe those answers were correct, which is why I asked again. I am from Ohio, so not familiar with NYC codes, but I do know that NEC allows MC 12/2 as well as AC. I just wanted to check.

LW


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Loosewire said:


> Roughing in outlets in a basement in NYC.
> Couple of questions:
> 
> 1- Is MC 12/2 with a separate green ground ok?
> ...


Answers in bold.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

GDK 13 said:


> Where did you get that info from? I never heard of lighting circuits being fused at 15 A.
> 
> Not sure about the second one about redheads either.
> 
> ...


The company I had worked for would get red tagged for these from inspectors, NYC has two codes, the written ones and the inspectors preference ones. Do you really want to argue with the Building dept of the city of NY ? It is just easier to say, yes dear , and comply with the nonsense.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> The company I had worked for would get red tagged for these from inspectors, NYC has two codes, the written ones and the inspectors preference ones. Do you really want to argue with the Building dept of the city of NY ? It is just easier to say, yes dear , and comply with the nonsense.


I thought that was in the code book somewhere and I never saw it. Or, was never taught it. Those things have never been an issue on any job site before...and if you did get nailed for it here, I'd love to see how they'd make it stick.


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

GDK 13 said:


> Answers in bold.


 
Thanks a lot GDK for confirming. Much obliged.

LW


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## mark35 (Mar 24, 2009)

I work at a HD near NYC and guys always come in and tell me they are required to use AC in the the city, I don't know who to believe now after reading GDK 13's post. Sad to say though, most of the guys that shop here at my HD do not seem to be very knowledgeable.


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## Loosewire (Feb 25, 2011)

AC (BX, named after the Bronx where it was made) used to be required in NYC. Romex was ok for a short while, like in Nassau/Suffolk, then outlawed again due to safety concerns.

The AC (BX) cable is steel armor, so the cable itself and bare wire that runs inside the cable formed the ground, so no separate green ground wire was necessary. (330 NEC)

The cable often separated from the connector and box in actual use, and the ground was lost. MC has a separate green ground wire inside, even though it is labeled 12/2. The separate ground wire is better, though a PITA to hook up because it's extra work and takes up space in the 1900 box.

I am using the 12/2 MC with the extra ground and wanted to be sure it was ok. 

LW


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Loosewire said:


> AC (BX, named after the Bronx where it was made) used to be required in NYC. Romex was ok for a short while, like in Nassau/Suffolk, then outlawed again due to safety concerns.
> 
> The AC (BX) cable is steel armor, so the cable itself and bare wire that runs inside the cable formed the ground, so no separate green ground wire was necessary. (330 NEC)
> 
> ...


mc cable is fine make sure you bond your boxes with ground tails


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

mark35 said:


> I work at a HD near NYC and guys always come in and tell me they are required to use AC in the the city, I don't know who to believe now after reading GDK 13's post. Sad to say though, most of the guys that shop here at my HD do not seem to be very knowledgeable.


You can use AC, MC, or NM amongst other wire types in the city. Public Occupancy=MC. Over 3 Stories-No NM. 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 15 family home? AC MC OR NM. (NM, provided it isn't over 3 Stories tall).

Lots of people don't know about what can be used, and what cannot be used.


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## cmac1 (Aug 31, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong ,but wasn't the 15a lighting circuit part of the nec up until the late 90's and around the same time NYC abandoned the restriction.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

GDK 13 said:


> You can use AC, MC, or NM amongst other wire types in the city. Public Occupancy=MC. *Over 3 Stories-No NM*. 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 15 family home? AC MC OR NM. (NM, provided it isn't over 3 Stories tall).
> 
> Lots of people don't know about what can be used, and what cannot be used.


Do they allow nm in a residential building taller than 3 stories if it has a sprinkler system?


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## cmac1 (Aug 31, 2008)

Not in NYC.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> Do they allow nm in a residential building taller than 3 stories if it has a sprinkler system?


Not as far as i know.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

Loosewire said:


> I don't believe those answers were correct, which is why I asked again. I am from Ohio, so not familiar with NYC codes, but I do know that NEC allows MC 12/2 as well as AC. I just wanted to check.
> 
> LW


why not just use mc to be safe? we dont buy bx any more, we bid mc irregardless of the application.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

GDK 13 said:


> Not as far as i know.


your right generally not, but i have seen it done via waver because the state had already approved the prints with nm and thats how it was bid.


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## gnxtc2 (Feb 21, 2011)

I heard the reason that NM is not allowed in NYC is because the rats chew the wire? 

Anytime I ventured into the NYC to do work, I've used BX/MC. 

I was doing a cell site in Queens and some fly by night electrical contractor installed PVC conduit in the floor to refeed a meter bank. The top of the PVC was 1" below the floor. :no: Can't use PVC either. 

Part of my job was to redo the service end box. What a nightmare was to get a NYC approved end box from a NJ supply house. TO make my life easier, i went to the NYC supply house and paid double for the equipment. I couldn't tell the difference beside the approved sticker. Also, the panels and meters need to be NYC rated. 

Billy T.
[email protected]


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

gnxtc2 said:


> I heard the reason that NM is not allowed in NYC is because the rats chew the wire?
> 
> Anytime I ventured into the NYC to do work, I've used BX/MC.
> 
> ...


There is also alot of rats installing the romex to


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> There is also alot of rats installing the romex to



You should be happy you're in the Union,,, the unions Doors are closed to most of the guys out there...


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## cmac1 (Aug 31, 2008)

Nm is allowed in one and two family homes not exceeding three stories in NYC,also PVC was allowed under special conditions(high corrosion areas etc)but now with the 2007 amendments it's use is less restrictive than it use to be.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

You can use pvc in NYC
..not sure where you heard that you can't.


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## cmac1 (Aug 31, 2008)

Check out section 352 of the NYC amendments,you're going to be shocked.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

cmac1 said:


> Check out section 352 of the NYC amendments,you're going to be shocked.


Really? You're saying I cant use PVC in NYC?


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## cmac1 (Aug 31, 2008)

GDK 13 said:


> Really? You're saying I cant use PVC in NYC?


Sorry I mis understood you're previous post.


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## cmac1 (Aug 31, 2008)

GDK 13 said:


> You can use pvc in NYC
> ..not sure where you heard that you can't.


Sorry this one.


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## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

cmac1 said:


> Sorry this one.


I have no idea what you are talking about. :thumbsup:


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