# Tools Stolen



## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm sorry. That sucks. Hope they catch the person. Your employer should have insurance to cover this.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

travis13 said:


> Well guys I got to work this morning and found my cart broken into. Me and my coworkers hand tools and company power tools were taken, about 4k worth. They were in a locked cart in a locked hospital fan room. My question is: Am I SOL or should I be reimbursed? I contacted the hospitals own police and they are turning it over to the city police. My superintendent has contacted the office and they have not responded.
> There are cameras around so hopefully they have them on video.


Sorry bro, the guys that did this should have their hands chopped off..


You should take your tools home each night so this won't happen at least at work again, get a good alarm for your truck.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Sucks to lose your tools.
Hand tools usually go home every night. Rest of the tools are locked in a gang box (no wheels)
The vans have hockey pucks on the doors with a cargo divider that doesn't have a door in it. The cargo trailers have the same locks, so bolt cutters are useless. They will have to cut open the doors and that takes too long and makes too much noise.
If the crack heads want our tools they have to work for it.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

your employer should have insurance that covers your tools stolen from the job.


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## kgb62 (Oct 23, 2011)

That sucks. Happened to a few guys I worked with at a local community college. They checked the security cameras and it was the overnight security guard. 


Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

I have had my tools stolen several times, IT SUCKS and leaves you wanting to kick some butt.

As an owner I would replace you tools, hardly worth the hassle for the owner to try for insurance.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

Bad Electrician said:


> I have had my tools stolen several times, IT SUCKS and leaves you wanting to kick some butt. As an owner I would replace you tools, hardly worth the hassle for the owner to try for insurance.


 I have had guys get their tools or laptops stolen out of their trucks. I have never replaced them, typically it's their negligence that led to them getting stolen. Either they left the laptop in clear view or didn't lock their toolboxes up where their tools were. I had one guy whose tool box was broken, it didn't lock properly, he knew about it and never said anything until after his tools got stolen, how is that my fault? At the end of the day YOUR tools are YOUR lively hood. I bet you don't leave them on the job again, even if they were secure, if someone wants them, they will take them.

I feel for you but it's not your companies fault or the hospitals fault. Your tools your responsibility.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

sstlouis03 said:


> I have had guys get their tools or laptops stolen out of their trucks. I have never replaced them, typically it's their negligence that led to them getting stolen. Either they left the laptop in clear view or didn't lock their toolboxes up where their tools were. I had one guy whose tool box was broken, it didn't lock properly, he knew about it and never said anything until after his tools got stolen, how is that my fault? At the end of the day YOUR tools are YOUR lively hood. I bet you don't leave them on the job again, even if they were secure, if someone wants them, they will take them.
> 
> I feel for you but it's not your companies fault or the hospitals fault. Your tools your responsibility.


I disagree. If you are willing to let your employees store their equipment in a locked cart (presumably owned by the company) on the job site, then it becomes YOUR responsibility as an employer. If an employee drops a company meter by accident and breaks it, do you take it out of their pay?


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

sstlouis03 said:


> I have had guys get their tools or laptops stolen out of their trucks. I have never replaced them, typically it's their negligence that led to them getting stolen. Either they left the laptop in clear view or didn't lock their toolboxes up where their tools were. I had one guy whose tool box was broken, it didn't lock properly, he knew about it and never said anything until after his tools got stolen, how is that my fault? At the end of the day YOUR tools are YOUR lively hood. I bet you don't leave them on the job again, even if they were secure, if someone wants them, they will take them.
> 
> I feel for you but it's not your companies fault or the hospitals fault. Your tools your responsibility.


I do not worry about who's fault it is I worry about what they are not getting completed. The cost of tools is small and a few hours lost work will cover them. 

I supply everything above basic hand tools.

I have been told by my friends in business, that I spoil my men and ruin apprentices because of our treatment of them.


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

I supply my guys with everything beyond hand tools. They are responsible for their own personal tools. If they get stolen, I will not replace them. I've had guys have their cordless tool kits "stolen", and I will replace them once but the second time you are either shown the door or replace them with equivalent tools. 

In this situation, I would do the same thing. I would replace my tools, you replace yours and everyone gets back to work. 

I hate thieves, and somebody stealing tools off a job site is about the worst in my opinion. Steal anything else and I can go to work and replace it, steal my tools and you have stolen my living.

Jeff


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

If my tool's we're stolen out of a company job box, my boss would replace them, and rightfully so

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## Andy17 (May 12, 2014)

As for you check signers who say they won't replace an employees tools that were stolen out of a company owned gang box or van that was locked. Get off your high horse and do the right thing. If the employee didn't lock the box or van, or left their tools out and they were stolen, then sure, it's their responsibility. But I lose a ton of respect for employers who don't stand behind their men, they aren't worth a good electricians time.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Sleaze bag companies, the type that won't replace stolen tools, will get theirs in the end. Companies like that probably treat their guys bad in other areas too and the guys know it and take fight back however they can. Stealing material, wasting time, abusing company tools, doing shoddy work, calling in "sick", and up and leaving at the drop of a hat. Among many other things.

Companies that treat their employees fair and respectably, get both in return and probably much more. 

What goes around, comes around.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Andy17 said:


> As for you check signers who say they won't replace an employees tools that were stolen out of a company owned gang box or van that was locked. Get off your high horse and do the right thing. If the employee didn't lock the box or van, or left their tools out and they were stolen, then sure, it's their responsibility. But I lose a ton of respect for employers who don't stand behind their men, they aren't worth a good electricians time.


Andy the problem they should look at is the lost time if the employee does not have the right tools for they job.

In my first few years in business I bought any tools the men wanted or needed, a few took advantage 4-5 pair of pliers in a year 10-20 screw drivers, so I stopped the practice. SO IT IS JUST NOT THE EMPLOYERS. Had another guy said MY multimeter was stolen, years later his wife apologized for driving over the DMM he left in the driveway after servicing his car.

Today I will buy any and all tools above the union required list the men need or want and I buy apprentices their first set of tools, leave within a year I get the tools back, lose them they have to replace.


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## Andy17 (May 12, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> Andy the problem they should look at is the lost time if the employee does not have the right tools for they job.
> 
> In my first few years in business I bought any tools the men wanted or needed, a few took advantage 4-5 pair of pliers in a year 10-20 screw drivers, so I stopped the practice. SO IT IS JUST NOT THE EMPLOYERS. Had another guy said MY multimeter was stolen, years later his wife apologized for driving over the DMM he left in the driveway after servicing his car.
> 
> Today I will buy any and all tools above the union required list the men need or want and I buy apprentices their first set of tools, leave within a year I get the tools back, lose them they have to replace.


First of all I don't understand the "lost time cause they don't have the right tools" argument. If you mean NO tools cause they got stolen. Then no **** they don't have any tools, and (assuming they locked everything up) they need them replaced ASAP so they can get back to work making YOU $, and earning themselves a living.


As for union employees....well I worked for a 1/2 union 1/2 non union shop for 5 years. I do not want to start that argument. (I'm non-union) But I know that dishonest employees ruin all companys slowly, and you need to weed them out as soon as you see bad trends. 

This thread was "should my employer be responsible for replacing my tools if they're stolen from a job site after being properly locked away in a company job box." The answer is simply YES


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

> Andy17 said:
> 
> 
> > First of all I don't understand the "lost time cause they don't have the right tools" argument. If you mean NO tools cause they got stolen. Then no **** they don't have any tools, and (assuming they locked everything up) they need them replaced ASAP so they can get back to work making YOU $, and earning themselves a living.
> ...


And once again that is a PERSONAL opinion, and while I agree with it, that is not the law and companies should have a clear policy. I DO have a policy and I replace tools.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Sleaze bag companies, the type that won't replace stolen tools, will get theirs in the end.
> 
> What goes around, comes around.



That is just not true bad people and bad companies prosper all the time while good people suffer and the opposite is true. There is no karma.

All one can do is what they think is right and hope for the best.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

Andy17 said:


> As for you check signers who say they won't replace an employees tools that were stolen out of a company owned gang box or van that was locked. Get off your high horse and do the right thing. If the employee didn't lock the box or van, or left their tools out and they were stolen, then sure, it's their responsibility. But I lose a ton of respect for employers who don't stand behind their men, they aren't worth a good electricians time.


As I said if it's their negligence it's not my problem. If some one breaks a window and steals their tools then I will replace it. I did not replace they guys tools that got stolen out of the toolbox that wouldn't lock properly because he never brought it to anyone's attention, even when he knew it didn't lock right. That's negligence. 

And for the record my horse is a Shetland pony.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> As I said if it's their negligence it's not my problem. If some one breaks a window and steals their tools then I will replace it. I did not replace they guys tools that got stolen out of the toolbox that wouldn't lock properly because he never brought it to anyone's attention, even when he knew it didn't lock right. That's negligence.
> 
> And for the record my horse is a Shetland pony.


Hey sstlouis: Aren't you the one with the problem with stray voltage at a racetrack or ball field?


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Sleaze bag companies, the type that won't replace stolen tools, will get theirs in the end. Companies like that probably treat their guys bad in other areas too and the guys know it and take fight back however they can. Stealing material, wasting time, abusing company tools, doing shoddy work, calling in "sick", and up and leaving at the drop of a hat. Among many other things. Companies that treat their employees fair and respectably, get both in return and probably much more. What goes around, comes around.


I treat all of my employees better than any company around here. New trucks every 100k miles, all tools besides hand tools are supplied, cordless drills, sawzalls, pony ponies, bandsaws, meters, hand benders, Chicago benders, tripods, ladders, crimpers, chompers, meggers, and several other items. It cost me over 12k to rig up each truck, running about 45 trucks. Do the math, if I replace everything, every time someone is negligent then I would constantly be sending money on tools. 

As a "check signer" I am not there to hold their hands, I'm there to run a proficient business. If they did everything they were supposed to do, which is rarely the case, than I will replace. Typically I have found that when guys don't have to pay for tools they don't treat them like they would if it came out of their own pockets. 

You talk like a typical worthless employee that's just there for a check and believe they deserve something for showing up each day on time and doing their work properly. THATS WHAT YOUR SUPPOSED TO DO!!!


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

A Little Short said:


> Hey sstlouis: Aren't you the one with the problem with stray voltage at a racetrack or ball field?


No sir. Not to my knowledge. Only industrial these days.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> No sir. Not to my knowledge. Only industrial these days.


Sorry thought it was you. I'm pretty sure it was someone from Tx though.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

A Little Short said:


> Sorry thought it was you. I'm pretty sure it was someone from Tx though.


Probably was, plenty of race tracks and softball fields, But wasn't this guy.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

sstlouis03 said:


> all tools besides hand tools are supplied, cordless drills, sawzalls, pony ponies, bandsaws, meters, hand benders, Chicago benders, tripods, ladders, crimpers, chompers, meggers, and several other items. It cost me over 12k to rig up each truck, running about 45 trucks.
> 
> Typically I have found that when guys don't have to pay for tools they don't treat them like they would if it came out of their own pockets.


So you've got half a million in tools ($12k * 45=$540k) that YOU'VE provided, but you wouldn't dare help an employee out if their cheapo hand tools were stolen while working for you. What do hand tools and a belt cost, like $500?

I'm not saying you're a bad boss, you could be one of the best.. but the logic is hard to reason.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

FrunkSlammer said:


> So you've got half a million in tools ($12k * 45=$540k) that YOU'VE provided, but you wouldn't dare help an employee out if their cheapo hand tools were stolen while working for you. What do hand tools and a belt cost, like $500? I'm not saying you're a bad boss, you could be one of the best.. but the logic is hard to reason.


Easily half a million combined. 

I didn't mean to really bash you there either but I try to promote responsibility and accountability. The problem is exactly what you stated. A guy sees how many tools we buy and how much money the company makes and say "o well they can afford a new one". That is the mentality I am talking about. I have said several times if EVERY precaution was taken and the tools were locked up properly then sure I will replace them, hell even accidents happen when I guy drops a drill and it breaks, but as I said if something happens to my tools or theirs due to THEIR negligence I am not responsible just because the company has the money.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Best company policy ever: employees are to supply their own hand tools and are completely responsible for them. Employer is not responsible for your tools, you are...they're yours. Feel free to leave them in the "company" gang box with the "company" tools, but if said gang box is broken into, said company will replace company tools only.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

T&K said:


> Best company policy ever: employees are to supply their own hand tools and are completely responsible for them. Employer is not responsible for your tools, you are...they're yours. Feel free to leave them in the "company" gang box with the "company" tools, but if said gang box is broken into, said company will replace company tools only.


Agreed


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

I think the problem is you see a majority of your employees with the mentality that they are going to cheat you. I've only seen this mentality when people are extremely dissatisfied with their working conditions. I mean sure, you'll occasionally get a scumbag employee, but to be afraid that all your employees are going to take advantage of you that's uh... disturbing? to say the least.

If you treat your employees right this is no big deal. You talk to them face to face when something happens. You'll know if someone is cheating you, but if you act paranoid to everyone then you could risk alienating more employees.

This is from my experience working for a fortune 100 company. Edit: with lots of dissatisfied employees


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

T&K said:


> Best company policy ever: employees are to supply their own hand tools and are completely responsible for them. Employer is not responsible for your tools, you are...they're yours. Feel free to leave them in the "company" gang box with the "company" tools, but if said gang box is broken into, said company will replace company tools only.


Meh. Why not just instruct them not to leave their tools on the job site? That's the simplest solution.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

FlyingSparks said:


> Meh. Why not just instruct them not to leave their tools on the job site? That's the simplest solution.


Isn't that what "feel free to leave them in the gang box, but I ain't replacing them if they get stolen from it" means?


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

Nope. I think you'll still get resentment from employees if their tools are lifted. If, you as an employer, do not wish to provide the guarantee of security, then the simplest policy is: don't put your tools in the company box ever.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

FlyingSparks said:


> Nope. I think you'll still get resentment from employees if their tools are lifted. If, you as an employer, do not wish to provide the guarantee of security, then the simplest policy is: don't put your tools in the company box ever.


Pretty sure that's what "feel free to put your tools in here, but I ain't replacing them" also means.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

T&K said:


> Pretty sure that's what "feel free to put your tools in here, but I ain't replacing them" also means.


He's from Maine, you have to speak Mainenaise.:laughing:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

I replace them that is my policy

Some don't replace them that is there policy.

As long as there is a *policy in place,* I see no issue. Until the government totally takes over our operations they are FREE TO RUN their companies as they please and as an employee if you have


> bothered to read


*and under stand the policy you are free to quit and if you like give him the finger on the way out the door.

In my experience few electrician read company policy notices or anything for that matter. We send out a safety notice every week when quizzing the men on the notice they say oh that, I just toss it.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Any contractor who won't replace employee tools stolen on the job isn't worth working for. We have insurance for this sort if thing.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

A Little Short said:


> He's from Maine, you have to speak Mainenaise.:laughing:


That's uh... Lame? Anyway anyone that knows me knows I'm from Florida -- Land of the tool lifters.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

FlyingSparks said:


> That's uh... Lame? Anyway anyone that knows me knows I'm from Florida -- Land of the tool lifters.


Same here in west Texas right now. Typically around here though most thieves will look right past hand tools and go for the high dollar tools or wire. Pawn shops don't pay much for hand tools.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> Any contractor who won't replace employee tools stolen on the job isn't worth working for. We have insurance for this sort if thing.


Any employee who doesn't care enough about the few hundred dollars worth of tools that is his only responsibility to take the chance and leave them in a gang box on a construction site instead of packing them to the house everyday is not worth having as an employee.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

I can't imagine carting in 50lbs of tools in and out of a big job 1/4 mile to the remote parking lot every day for 2 years. That's just stupid. If the tools are locked in a company gang box and are stolen, they are covered under the employer's insurance. Why wouldn't he reimburse the employee? Unless, of course, he is pocketing the insurance money.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

T&K said:


> Any employee who doesn't care enough about the few hundred dollars worth of tools that is his only responsibility to take the chance and leave them in a gang box on a construction site instead of packing them to the house everyday is not worth having as an employee.


 So if an employee doesn't take his tools home every night, he sucks? You sure you wanna go with that position?


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

T&K said:


> Any employee who doesn't care enough about the few hundred dollars worth of tools that is his only responsibility to take the chance and leave them in a gang box on a construction site instead of packing them to the house everyday is not worth having as an employee.


Wow! I'd have to strongly disagree. You have obviously never been on a big construction job. It can take up to 20 minutes to walk to the parking lot. I guess I was a worthless employee for locking my tools in the gang box every night for the past 20+ years. I can't believe I never made the connection. My employers were suckers for even hiring me.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> I can't imagine carting in 50lbs of tools in and out of a big job 1/4 mile to the remote parking lot every day for 2 years. That's just stupid. If the tools are locked in a company gang box and are stolen, they are covered under the employer's insurance. Why wouldn't he reimburse the employee? Unless, of course, he is pocketing the insurance money.


Your tool pouch with the hand tools that you are responsible for weighs 50lbs??? Since when do hand tools weigh that much? Don't forget I wear one everyday.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

T&K said:


> Any employee who doesn't care enough about the few hundred dollars worth of tools that is his only responsibility to take the chance and leave them in a gang box on a construction site instead of packing them to the house everyday is not worth having as an employee.


Maybe in West KY, but here it can often be a long walk to the job, heck at the Pentagon it can be a long walk from the entrance to your place of work. Makes sense to keep them on the job.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Big John said:


> So if an employee doesn't take his tools home every night, he sucks? You sure you wanna go with that position?


No sir. However, if it is company policy to take your HAND tools home everyday, and you don't, there is no reason to complain if they get stolen, and if you cant follow basic, simple rules, then 
you probably arent going to follow the more important rules. I'm stating the same thing from a different point of view as the post I quoted. Why is an employer a POS if he tells his employee that he is responsible for taking his tools home, and he doesn't, and they get stolen, the employer is a POS if he doesn't buy new tools. The key word here is HAND TOOLS. there have been countless debates on this very site swearing up and down that an employee is only responsible for the MINIMUM hand tools. If you are responsible for them, take full responsibility. I'm not asking you to pack out a triple nickel and some threading equipment, we're talking about hand tools.


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## piette (Feb 7, 2008)

btharmy said:


> If the tools are locked in a company gang box and are stolen, they are covered under the employer's insurance. Why wouldn't he reimburse the employee? Unless, of course, he is pocketing the insurance money.


Yes, I'm certain that's what it is. The employer is pocketing maybe $500 of insurance money so that he can now pay $1000's more every year for insurance now that he has to file a claim. Either you have no idea what it costs to insure a company and how it works or math is really not your strong suit. 

"Just claim it on insurance, it's no big deal.............."


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> Wow! I'd have to strongly disagree. You have obviously never been on a big construction job. It can take up to 20 minutes to walk to the parking lot. I guess I was a worthless employee for locking my tools in the gang box every night for the past 20+ years. I can't believe I never made the connection. My employers were suckers for even hiring me.


And obviously you are assuming things. I've done it ole buddy, right along with the hundreds of other men packing tools in and out every day. My guess is your hand tools that you are responsible for , along with the bag or pouch doesn't way much more than 15 lbs. the key that you are missing here, is if its company policy to be responsible for YOUR tools, and they aren't covered in any way, then don't cry if the gang box gets broken into, and you have to replace a couple hundred dollars worth of tools. I'm sure the employer that is responsible for all the other tools will be spending much more to replace them.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Bad Electrician said:


> Maybe in West KY, but here it can often be a long walk to the job, heck at the Pentagon it can be a long walk from the entrance to your place of work. Makes sense to keep them on the job.


Yeah, there aren't any long walks here.... How big do you think hundred acre factories are?


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

T&K said:


> No sir. However, if it is company policy to take your HAND tools home everyday, and you don't, there is no reason to complain if they get stolen, and if you cant follow basic, simple rules, then
> you probably arent going to follow the more important rules. I'm stating the same thing from a different point of view as the post I quoted. Why is an employer a POS if he tells his employee that he is responsible for taking his tools home, and he doesn't, and they get stolen, the employer is a POS if he doesn't buy new tools. The key word here is HAND TOOLS. there have been countless debates on this very site swearing up and down that an employee is only responsible for the MINIMUM hand tools. If you are responsible for them, take full responsibility. I'm not asking you to pack out a triple nickel and some threading equipment, we're talking about hand tools.


You said they could keep them in the company box?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

T&K said:


> ...If its company policy to be responsible for YOUR tools, and they aren't covered in any way, then don't cry if the gang gets broken into....


 I can't argue with that. All I can say is that I've never worked for a contractor who did not cover all equipment in their storage facilities or vehicles, and it's very common to leave hand tools in gang boxes.

If it was made clear to OP, that's one thing, but I didn't see where that was the case.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

FlyingSparks said:


> You said they could keep them in the company box?


Feel free to keep them there, but they are your responsibility, means, and I hope this is plain enough for you to understand: YOUR tools are YOUR tools, they are YOUR responsibility. Feel free to keep them in the company gang box, but it is YOUR responsibility to have YOUR tools when the work day begins. No excuses. Not the dog ate them, not I forgot them at home, not they got stolen. If you don't have YOUR tools at start time, you can't work. If you can't work, you go home. What is so hard to understand about a company policy that is YOU are responsible for YOUR tools under all circumstances?


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Honestly I think a court of law would disagree. As much as YOU emphasize whatever YOU want, it'll still be YOU on the hook for YOUR employees tools. 

If YOU don't want to be responsible for YOUR employees tools then YOU shouldn't provide a locked box to store them.

Just saying....


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

There are some real winners on this site....wow.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

T&K said:


> Yeah, there aren't any long walks here.... How big do you think hundred acre factories are?


I'd guess a hundred acres?


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Honestly I think a court of law would disagree. As much as YOU emphasize whatever YOU want, it'll still be YOU on the hook for YOUR employees tools.
> 
> If YOU don't want to be responsible for YOUR employees tools then YOU shouldn't provide a locked box to store them.
> 
> Just saying....


Who said I supplied a locked box for them to store their tools in? Read the previous posts. The box is clearly bought by me to store my tools in, and if you choose to keep yours in it, that's fine, but they aren't my responsibility.


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

T&K said:


> Who said I supplied a locked box for them to store their tools in? Read the previous posts. The box is clearly bought by me to store my tools in, and if you choose to keep yours in it, that's fine, but they aren't my responsibility.


Worst.boss.ever lol

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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

cdnelectrician said:


> There are some real winners on this site....wow.


Exactly. Those that can't understand a simple company policy... It's comical. I bet if company policy was that at the end of a long day, you could take home a free 30 pack of beer, people would be lining up to pack that amount of weight to the truck, no matter how far away it is.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Honestly I think a court of law would disagree. As much as YOU emphasize whatever YOU want, it'll still be YOU on the hook for YOUR employees tools.
> 
> If YOU don't want to be responsible for YOUR employees tools then YOU shouldn't provide a locked box to store them.
> 
> Just saying....


Apparently you speak a clearer version of Maineaise. Hahaha


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

I just want to know what's on the video


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

T&K said:


> Your tool pouch with the hand tools that you are responsible for weighs 50lbs??? Since when do hand tools weigh that much? Don't forget I wear one everyday.


You don't just have a pouch of tools on a big commercial/industrial job. 

- socket set up to 1-1/4"
- combination wrenches up to 1-1/4"
- 2 pipe wrenches up to 16"
- 24oz ball pene hammer 
- chisels
- k.o. Set up to 1-1/4"
- channel locks big and small
- Allen wrenches
- 12" crescent wrench 
- center punches

Do I need to go on??


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

btharmy said:


> You don't just have a pouch of tools on a big commercial/industrial job.
> 
> - socket set up to 1-1/4"
> - combination wrenches up to 1-1/4"
> ...


Almost all of those should be company supplied.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

T&K said:


> ...Those that can't understand a simple company policy....


 Since the OP didn't mention any company policy, how can you claim to understand it?


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

T&K said:


> Feel free to keep them there, but they are your responsibility, means, and I hope this is plain enough for you to understand: YOUR tools are YOUR tools, they are YOUR responsibility. Feel free to keep them in the company gang box, but it is YOUR responsibility to have YOUR tools when the work day begins. No excuses. Not the dog ate them, not I forgot them at home, not they got stolen. If you don't have YOUR tools at start time, you can't work. If you can't work, you go home. What is so hard to understand about a company policy that is YOU are responsible for YOUR tools under all circumstances?


On the same note, at the end of every day , I will take care of MY tools and carry them to MY car for safe keeping. As far as YOUR tools, you can come out to the jobsite and take care of locking up YOUR tools in YOUR gang box because they are YOUR tools and YOUR responsibility. Sounds like a deal to me.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Guys, from here it looks like a few of y'all are getting a bit riled up, please don't make this into a personal flame war. :thumbsup:

Company policies will vary from one company to another, everyone needs to accept that and move on.

No policy is necessarily better than another, it has to be a case-by-case call. 

That said, I have worked for EC's with pretty much every policy from "Yeah, we will cover your personal tools if stolen from one of our sites" to "It is 100% your responsibility to care for, protect and insure your tools." 

When I was running my cinema installs, I had a written policy that all helpers/subs were responsible for their own tools..if they left them overnight/weekend on the site, it was at their own risk.


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## fp.unit (Dec 18, 2012)

Bad Electrician said:


> Almost all of those should be company supplied.


according to the union? a non union company can set whatever tool list they want. does that make them "bad" employers? apparently but I doubt they care what people think. are they making money? are the guys working? that is all that matters


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

T&K, I'm sure you might have a change of heart if you were working 240' up on a catwalk with only stair access. I just can't see subjecting employees to the abuse of hauling tools up and down possibly thousands of stairs daily. I guess I have been fortunate to not have experienced such a company policy.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Bad Electrician said:


> Almost all of those should be company supplied.


They are all on the list of either required or optional tools for the IBEW in Indianapolis. I had the pipe wrench length wrong, it should be 14".


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> You don't just have a pouch of tools on a big commercial/industrial job.
> 
> - socket set up to 1-1/4"
> - combination wrenches up to 1-1/4"
> ...


Pics of the hand tool list that includes those items, or its just all Mumbo jumbo.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Big John said:


> Since the OP didn't mention any company policy, how can you claim to understand it?


The subject clearly got away from the op in the first few posts, and moved to whether or not it was company policy to replace tools that are the employees responsibility. My point is not the tools, it's whether or not the company should replace tools, stolen on a job site during off hours, when it is company policy to take your tools home. If the rule is in place, follow it.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

If you provide a job box that is lockable and allow employees to store the tools in there, you have taken responsibility for them. Fortunately for you either no tools have been stolen, or no employee has stood up to you. You would lose if taken to court. 

Just sayin bro... 

If you don't want liability, do like mxslick, don't offer ANYTHING to store tools in and put up signs and make it known you are not responsible.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> T&K, I'm sure you might have a change of heart if you were working 240' up on a catwalk with only stair access. I just can't see subjecting employees to the abuse of hauling tools up and down possibly thousands of stairs daily. I guess I have been fortunate to not have experienced such a company policy.


And I'm sure you might have a change of heart if an employee couldn't follow a simple rule such as take your hand tools home. All the items you listed, in my opinion, should be company supplied, and therefore locked up in a company box. It's all about having a little bit of responsibility. It's a simple rule. Shouldn't even the simplest of rules be followed?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

T&K said:


> ...My point is not the tools, it's whether or not the company should replace tools, stolen on a job site during off hours, when it is company policy to take your tools home. If the rule is in place, follow it.


 And if it's not company policy to take your tools home?


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> On the same note, at the end of every day , I will take care of MY tools and carry them to MY car for safe keeping. As far as YOUR tools, you can come out to the jobsite and take care of locking up YOUR tools in YOUR gang box because they are YOUR tools and YOUR responsibility. Sounds like a deal to me.


That's what the responsible employee that makes the most money on the job is for. To take the responsibility of those who will never take the initiative. You have clearly missed my whole point.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Big John said:


> And if it's not company policy to take your tools home?


Then the company should pay for them. It's simple.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

T&K said:


> Pics of the hand tool list that includes those items, or its just all Mumbo jumbo.


 Here you go: 









By the way, thanks for attempting to call me out as a liar on a public forum. Classy!!!!

I forgot to write Cletus on my finger.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

btharmy said:


> by the way, thanks for attempting to call me out as a liar on a public forum. Classy!!!!
> 
> I forgot to write cletus on my finger.


Oh SNaPPPPPPP!!!!


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> Here you go:
> 
> By the way, thanks for attempting to call me out as a liar on a public forum. Classy!!!!


Well then I stand corrected. That list is longer than any tool list I, or any union electrician has ever seen in this area. I have family that are union electricians. A list that long would, in my opinion, require a place to store tools. Also in my opinion, that is more tools than I would ever make anyone supply. If I made you supply that many, I would supply the gang box, and replace if stolen. When I say hand tools, I mean the basics.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

T&K said:


> Well then I stand corrected. That list is longer than any tool list I, or any union electrician has ever seen in this area. I have family that are union electricians. A list that long would, in my opinion, require a place to store tools. Also in my opinion, that is more tools than I would ever make anyone supply. If I made you supply that many, I would supply the gang box, and replace if stolen. When I say hand tools, I mean the basics.


I guess that's why we have such contrasting opinions in the matter.


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## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

btharmy said:


> I guess that's why we have such contrasting opinions in the matter.


Yessir. And I wasn't trying to make it a personal attack, I should have just asked what your definition of hand tools is. I wasn't even required to have that much when I was an electrician in a factory, and we had big beach cruiser tricycles with tool boxes on them that we rode around. To me, hand tools are linemans, *****, needle nose, 2 pair of medium sized channel locks, 1 small pair of channel locks, a standard 7 piece nut driver set, a standard screwdriver set(including Robertson, but not torx), strippers, small crimpers, and a knife. anything else, it's my responsibility.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

And I guess I'm just a bunch of Mainenaise?


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

FlyingSparks said:


> And I guess I'm just a bunch of Mainenaise?


Yep.  

(Caution: Clip contains R-rated language)






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuuTS_WNw5w


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

btharmy said:


> Here you go:
> 
> View attachment 37780
> 
> ...


Elsewhere in that book, you might find that if at anytime the employer requires the employee to take their personal tools and work clothes/boots home, either because of transfer to another jobsite or because a secure lockbox and shanty aren't being provided on site, the employer shall allow for a paid 1/2 hour travel time.

Over 25 years now and I have had my tools stolen once using the employer's gangbox. It turned out to be an apprentice with either a drug habit or a debt problem who went to the jobsite on a weekend and cleaned every job box out, power tools included. 

Every other instance I can recall hearing of it was almost always an "inside job." Either a fellow tradesman or the off-hours "security" guards. I swear security companies will issue a blazer and pin a square badge onto any ex-felon who walks in the door.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

I am speaking in terms of an owner. I couldn't imagine calling my wife (who handles all the business finances) and telling her to call insurance because a gang box or truck was broken into and $4,000 in tools were stolen. But dont worry because joes tools were in their also, he can cover that $300.

She would call be a cheapskate piece of sh!t.

By the way, we have had trucks broken into and employee tools stolen. I reimbursed them every penny no questions asked.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

btharmy said:


> Here you go: By the way, thanks for attempting to call me out as a liar on a public forum. Classy!!!! I forgot to write Cletus on my finger.


 Am I the only one that read "the journeyman SHALL furnish". Didn't say the employer had to furnish any of that. In fact all the employer has to furnish is NECESSARY tools and other items He CHOOSES to make the job more efficient. That is a list of what is required by journeyman and apprentices. Re-read it and then try again.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

sstlouis03 said:


> Am I the only one that read "the journeyman SHALL furnish". Didn't say the employer had to furnish any of that. In fact all the employer has to furnish is NECESSARY tools and other items He CHOOSES to make the job more efficient. That is a list of what is required by journeyman and apprentices. Re-read it and then try again.


Yes, you read it correctly. The list shows the tools that shall be purchased for personal use by the journeyman. Anything additional is provided by the company. I thought that was pretty clear. Is there something I am missing?


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

btharmy said:


> Yes, you read it correctly. The list shows the tools that shall be purchased for personal use by the journeyman. Anything additional is provided by the company. I thought that was pretty clear. Is there something I am missing?


 No. Maybe I misunderstood you previously.


I did. I stand corrected.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

FlyingSparks said:


> And I guess I'm just a bunch of Mainenaise?


Wait, it's not lame now?:whistling2::laughing:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

dawgs said:


> I am speaking in terms of an owner. I couldn't imagine calling my wife (who handles all the business finances) and telling her to call insurance because a gang box or truck was broken into and $4,000 in tools were stolen. But dont worry because joes tools were in their also, he can cover that $300.
> 
> She would call be a cheapskate piece of sh!t.
> 
> By the way, we have had trucks broken into and employee tools stolen. I reimbursed them every penny no questions asked.


Here is the deal you would buy replacement tools and so would I

Some companies choose not to buy replacement tools, THEIR CHOICE.

Just so the employee knows that going in what is the issue?


Keep your tools safe boys.


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## Nuzzie (Jan 11, 2012)

btharmy said:


> Here you go:
> 
> View attachment 37780
> 
> ...



i think your tool lists are ridiculous

if i want to have my own 3lb hammer i'm going to buy a damn 3lb hammer


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> i think your tool lists are ridiculous
> 
> if i want to have my own 3lb hammer i'm going to buy a damn 3lb hammer


It's a "minimum" tool list.... your free to bring whatever else you want to bring. So go ahead and carry an extra 3lb hammer like a knucklehead


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## Nuzzie (Jan 11, 2012)

local134gt said:


> It's a "minimum" tool list.... your free to bring whatever else you want to bring. So go ahead and carry an extra 3lb hammer like a knucklehead


why does it go the extra length to specify "not to exceed 1 1/2lb"? why not just "hammer" or "must be at least xlb" since it's a "minimum"?

not trying to be smart just curious


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bad Electrician said:


> That is just not true bad people and bad companies prosper all the time while good people suffer and the opposite is true. There is no karma.
> 
> All one can do is what they think is right and hope for the best.


Ok so, the Dogma, has no Karma?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

sstlouis03 said:


> Am I the only one that read "the journeyman SHALL furnish". Didn't say the employer had to furnish any of that. In fact all the employer has to furnish is NECESSARY tools and other items He CHOOSES to make the job more efficient. That is a list of what is required by journeyman and apprentices. Re-read it and then try again.


With that is very specific language about the employer replacing stolen tools.
I saw it happen once.
By 10 am everyone involved received a complete tool set of tools as defined on the tool list. Nothing more or less.
It was not really a big deal.
I don't see what the big debate is here.
How much lost time was mitigated with that I will never know but I believe it was substantial and outweighed the price of the tools many times over.


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> why does it go the extra length to specify "not to exceed 1 1/2lb"? why not just "hammer" or "must be at least xlb" since it's a "minimum"?
> 
> not trying to be smart just curious


That is worded weird, it should probably just say framing hammer. Cause technically according to that list a guy could show up with a tiny ball peen hammer. Haha


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

Our tool list just says "electricians hammer"


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Nuzzie said:


> why does it go the extra length to specify "not to exceed 1 1/2lb"? why not just "hammer" or "must be at least xlb" since it's a "minimum"?
> 
> not trying to be smart just curious


1) they don't want electricians to be confused with carpenters
2) they don't want electricians doing carpentry work
3) they don't want carpenters stealing the electricians little girly hammers
4) electricians are dangerous when they have access to big hammers


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## Nuzzie (Jan 11, 2012)

local134gt said:


> Our tool list just says "electricians hammer"
> 
> 
> View attachment 37822


Haha that's so vague it could be anything.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Nuzzie said:


> i think your tool lists are ridiculous if i want to have my own 3lb hammer i'm going to buy a damn 3lb hammer


That's the beauty of it. If you need a 3 lb hammer to get the job done, the contractor will buy it instead of you. That's the point. Not to burden the employee with the expense of buying excessive amounts of tools. Heck, when working non union, I saw journeymen who brought their own gang box to keep all of their tools in. It was ridiculous.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Nuzzie said:


> Haha that's so vague it could be anything.


Klein's make a hammer called an ELECTRICIANS HAMMER an 807-18

http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/straight-claw-hammers/electricians-straight-claw-hammer

*Electrician's Straight-Claw Hammer*

Durable plastic-alloy jacketing helps to protect neck from fraying and splintering if incorrectly struck or overstruck.

High-strength fiberglass shaft absorbs shock and keeps head tight.

Comfortable, perforated neoprene grip bonded to handle.

Extra-long neck, and narrow striking face are ideal for reaching into outlet boxes and other tight areas.

Balanced and designed specifically for use in electrical work.


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

Bad Electrician said:


> Klein's make a hammer called an ELECTRICIANS HAMMER an 807-18


That's the one the made us buy in 1st year school... it's been sitting in my toolbox at home for 13+ years in favor of my Estwing


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

I can't remember the last time I used a hammer. There's one in my van somewhere, putting my hands on it could take awhile though.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

local134gt said:


> That's the one the made us buy in 1st year school... it's been sitting in my toolbox at home for 13+ years in favor of my Estwing


I bought one and did not like it,


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## sburton224 (Feb 28, 2013)

It's been 3 days, any news on the person or persons responsible for the theft?


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

sburton224 said:


> It's been 3 days, any news on the person or persons responsible for the theft?


3 days and 7 pages of useless bickering


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## guy2073 (May 4, 2011)

I was on a job years ago when an excavator hit a main gas line. Everyone had to drop everything and run for the hills. When i returned the next day my tools were gone. The company project manager asked for a list of what was missing and had new tools by lunch for me. Later in the day my tools were found in a plumbers gang box, i went from all new tools to my old crap in a few hours.

I was not expecting them to replace my tools, or thought they should, but they did no questions asked.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

guy2073 said:


> I was on a job years ago when an excavator hit a main gas line. Everyone had to drop everything and run for the hills. When i returned the next day my tools were gone. The company project manager asked for a list of what was missing and had new tools by lunch for me. Later in the day my tools were found in a plumbers gang box, i went from all new tools to my old crap in a few hours. I was not expecting them to replace my tools, or thought they should, but they did no questions asked.


See that's what the debate has been about this whole time. You could not avoid that situation, nothing you could do. The debate is about rather or not the employee could have done something to prevent it. If he could than its on them plain and simple, and carrying your tools to your car rather it's 100' or a 1/2 mile to their car is something everyone is capable of doing to prevent their tools being stolen.


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## Nuzzie (Jan 11, 2012)

If you're leaving your tools around unlocked, ****s on you.

If it's your employers gangbox then that should be reasonable place to leave them. That should be on the employer for not adequately securing the gangbox.


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## guy2073 (May 4, 2011)

They were my tools, my problem when they got lost. I was just surprised when the company replaced them. You take a risk when you leave your tools in a job box, your coworker can be a thief. 

I remember reading in my homeowners policy that they covered items stolen outside the home, also visa and mastercard have that if you purchased your tools on credit.


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## StevieScott (Jul 26, 2014)

TOOL_5150 said:


> your employer should have insurance that covers your tools stolen from the job.


Yes, correct an employer should have an insurance for every tool that they share with their employees. So that whenever such situation comes where your tools stolen you will get benefited from the insurance company.
Apart from it, you should have to take some responsibility by yourself also if you are sharing any important tools with your employees. It’s your responsibility to take care of it.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Nuzzie said:


> why does it go the extra length to specify "not to exceed 1 1/2lb"? why not just "hammer" or "must be at least xlb" since it's a "minimum"?
> 
> not trying to be smart just curious


 It says that because the hammer provided by the employee is not to exceed 1 & 1/2 lbs. So even though the list is the minimum of what the employee must provide, the employee may NOT supply a 16# sledge hammer. 

That's how I read it anyways.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

guy2073 said:


> They were my tools, my problem when they got lost. I was just surprised when the company replaced them. You take a risk when you leave your tools in a job box, your coworker can be a thief.
> 
> I remember reading in my homeowners policy that they covered items stolen outside the home, also visa and mastercard have that if you purchased your tools on credit.


Just keep this in the back of your mind when it comes to using credit cards for the added features they offer...

I had an AMEX gold card and part of the "privilege" was it was supposed to double the manufacturer's warranty on most anything you purchased on the card. Well, years ago a VCR I purchased with the card took a dump after the 1 year warranty expired. I had the warranty paperwork, and the receipt and called AMEX and they wouldn't cover it because they said the card member agreement eliminated that benefit a couple of years prior to my purchase.

Little did I know, (but notice my VISA and Master Card also send out annual notices also) that practically every year your card companies send out "addendums" that there will be some changes in your agreement, and it's like a pamphlet filled with fine print legalese that you basically just toss in the trash anyway. Mostly it deals with how "bonus points" are awarded or frequent flier miles and whatnot, and revisions to how and when interest rates will be calculated, late fees, etc... So unless you read through the entire thing you'll never know when the very reason you signed up for a card offer has been eliminated and no longer applies.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

IslandGuy said:


> It says that because the hammer provided by the employee is not to exceed 1 & 1/2 lbs. So even though the list is the minimum of what the employee must provide, the employee may NOT supply a 16# sledge hammer. That's how I read it anyways.



No, the list is the MAXIMUM the employee is to supply. Anything more (or bigger) is to be supplied by the contractor.


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## travis13 (Oct 12, 2012)

Let's revive this thread with an update. TOOLS FOUND! It was an inside job. Very long story that I will elaborate on in full detail once the tools are fully back in my possession (if anyone cares to here the story).


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

awesome.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Can you elaborate?


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

Let's hear it! 

Sent from my SGH-I337M using electriciantalk.com mobile app


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

His journeyman did it.:whistling2:


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

travis13 said:


> TOOLS FOUND! It was an inside job.


It's always an inside job.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

travis13 said:


> ....... (if anyone cares to here the story).



I'd rather _there_ the story. Here the story gets boring. :laughing:


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

btharmy said:


> *I can't imagine carting in 50lbs of tools in and out of a big job 1/4 mile to the remote parking lot every day for 2 years.* That's just stupid. If the tools are locked in a company gang box and are stolen, they are covered under the employer's insurance. Why wouldn't he reimburse the employee? Unless, of course, he is pocketing the insurance money.


ive done it for a year, id complain but who would listen:laughing:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

travis13 said:


> I will elaborate on in full detail once the tools are fully back in my possession .


 Why do you have to wait to tell the story?


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

Yes, please, post.

Patrick



travis13 said:


> Let's revive this thread with an update. TOOLS FOUND! It was an inside job. Very long story that I will elaborate on in full detail once the tools are fully back in my possession (if anyone cares to here the story).


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Still waiting.


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## garmasters (Jul 21, 2014)

*Fault?*



travis13 said:


> Well guys I got to work this morning and found my cart broken into. Me and my coworkers hand tools and company power tools were taken, about 4k worth. They were in a locked cart in a locked hospital fan room. My question is: Am I SOL or should I be reimbursed? I contacted the hospitals own police and they are turning it over to the city police. My superintendent has contacted the office and they have not responded.
> There are cameras around so hopefully they have them on video.


C'mon, we all know it was Bush's fault..........................:laughing:


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

garmasters said:


> C'mon, we all know it was Bush's fault..........................:laughing:


Well we know an Obama supporter wouldn't take them. Cause they don't want to work...drumroll...
I'll be here all week, thanks


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

there was an article about three chicks stole a dudes artifical leg.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

The tools were abducted by aliens of the illegal type. 
They were seized by the bank as payment for an overdue note.
Someone simply borrowed them before you lost them. 
:whistling2:


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