# NMSC Holes in Joists



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

P-Dogg said:


> Hello,
> I do mostly industrial work so Im a little rusty with Resi. Im running new circuits in my home in Ontario for a kitchen reno. Question is where can I find a solid explanation of what hole size is required in a wooden joist and how many 14/2's or 12/2's I can share a hole with a not have to derate.
> 
> Im told 7/8" auger is the weapon of choice and I can run up to 3 14/2's or 2 12/2's through one of these.
> ...


You only have to derate if the cables are bundled together for more than 600 mm in length. CEC 4-004(14)

You should post in the Canadian section for questions about Canadian code.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

P-Dogg said:


> Question is where can I find a solid explanation of what hole size is required in a wooden joist and how many 14/2's or 12/2's I can share a hole with a not have to derate.


*HERE*, Unfortunately is a few pennies, but does cover quite a few more topics.:vs_cool:


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## P-Dogg (Mar 5, 2019)

I appreciate that. As you know there is no need to spend those pennies just yet since we are still working out of the 26th edition until May 16 and the permit is already pulled. Could you please share a code refference regarding hole sizes in joists?


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

P-Dogg said:


> I appreciate that. As you know there is no need to spend those pennies just yet since we are still working out of the 26th edition until May 16 and the permit is already pulled. Could you please share a code refference regarding hole sizes in joists?


There is no such code


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## Bcec (Jul 29, 2018)

A 13/16 bit is the best.Through a 2x4 the hole is still 32mm from front and back edges.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard @P-Dogg!

Enjoy your ride here.

I've always used 3/4" and 7/8" augers myself.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The big problem with reno: those old timbers get DRY.

1) Punching holes goes slower.

2) Screws beat out nails.

&&&&&&&&

Cutting into structural IS covered by Code -- just not the NEC// CEC.

The worst sinners: plumbers and HVAC.

Just don't group your holes -- don't turn the timber into Swiss cheese.

Note: manufactured beams have TOTALLY different rules.


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## P-Dogg (Mar 5, 2019)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Welcome aboard @P-Dogg!
> 
> Enjoy your ride here.
> 
> I've always used 3/4" and 7/8" augers myself.


Its deffinetly going to be a fun ride. Just gotta hold on tight.
Thanks for sharing


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

In the future we will be using Crisper to create lumber that is the conductor. 
Which means there won't be electricians, wiring will be done by carpenters.


Oh wait, that already happened . 

Never mind................


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> In the future we will be using Crisper to create lumber that is the conductor.
> Which means there won't be electricians, wiring will be done by carpenters.
> 
> 
> ...


I looked up Crisper and found frying pans.

WTF are you talking about?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

P-Dogg said:


> Its deffinetly going to be a fun ride. Just gotta hold on tight.
> Thanks for sharing


Welcome anytime!


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

99cents said:


> I looked up Crisper and found frying pans.
> 
> WTF are you talking about?


It's the bottom drawer in my refrigerator.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

99cents said:


> I looked up Crisper and found frying pans.
> 
> WTF are you talking about?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR_gene_editing


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR_gene_editing


I don’t know where a guy from Hawaii goes on vacation but you need a sanity break, mac. Maybe try Iceland. You can borrow my toque.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

99cents said:


> I don’t know where a guy from Hawaii goes on vacation but you need a sanity break, mac. Maybe try Iceland. You can borrow my toque.


Actually you should be thankful for me expanding your knowledge base and horizons.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Actually you should be thankful for me expanding your knowledge base and horizons.


You can borrow my mittens too.

Oh and here’s a tip: Take the tin foil off before you put on the toque.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR_gene_editing


All I got out of that was "Monsanto". And genetic mutations in food can cause genetic anomalies in whatever ingests that food. Woo-Hoo! We're all just holograms anyhow.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> In the future we will be using Crisper to create lumber that is the conductor.
> Which means there won't be electricians, wiring will be done by carpenters.
> 
> 
> ...


And laborers are doing underground duct banks.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

99cents said:


> macmikeman said:
> 
> 
> > Actually you should be thankful for me expanding your knowledge base and horizons.
> ...


..lol, it’s the coconuts


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

joebanana said:


> macmikeman said:
> 
> 
> > In the future we will be using Crisper to create lumber that is the conductor.
> ...


down south maybe


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

360max said:


> down south maybe


 Serious bro. I heard rumblings that the laborers union is trying to get our underground. Just the pipe, and trenching, and vaults, no wire. And the carpenters union is trying to employ their own electrical division for residence's.
That was a few years ago though.


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## Bleddyn (Aug 29, 2018)

As far as maximum permissible hole sizes in structural members (floor joists, etc.), you need to look the Ontario Building Code. I believe it’s in section 9.23.5. But this is a quick reference: https://www.tillsonburg.ca/en/do-bu...ING-IT-RIGHT-NOTCHING-AND-DRILLING---2017.pdf


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

joebanana said:


> Serious bro. I heard rumblings that the laborers union is trying to get our underground. Just the pipe, and trenching, and vaults, no wire. And the carpenters union is trying to employ their own electrical division for residence's.
> That was a few years ago though.


I welcome the competition, maybe then the IBEW would serve their members better.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

TGGT said:


> joebanana said:
> 
> 
> > Serious bro. I heard rumblings that the laborers union is trying to get our underground. Just the pipe, and trenching, and vaults, no wire. And the carpenters union is trying to employ their own electrical division for residence's.
> ...


... I don’t welcome it, it’s our work running electrical conduit.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

TGGT said:


> I welcome the competition, maybe then the IBEW would serve their members better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 It's just all about the money. Why would a customer pay $40hr. when a laborer will do it for $12? Same with the carpenters, it'll be cheaper up front, but who knows what problems will develop later?
I haven't heard any rumors lately though.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

360max said:


> ... I don’t welcome it, it’s our work running electrical conduit.


They can have the ropin'. (Hehe)


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

360max said:


> ... I don’t welcome it, it’s our work running electrical conduit.


The IBEW you know and the IBEW I know are 2 different things.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## P-Dogg (Mar 5, 2019)

Bleddyn said:


> As far as maximum permissible hole sizes in structural members (floor joists, etc.), you need to look the Ontario Building Code. I believe it’s in section 9.23.5. But this is a quick reference: https://www.tillsonburg.ca/en/do-bu...ING-IT-RIGHT-NOTCHING-AND-DRILLING---2017.pdf





TGGT said:


> 360max said:
> 
> 
> > ... I don’t welcome it, it’s our work running electrical conduit.
> ...


Nice Pics. Thanks for the info


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