# Apprenticeship Program Doubts



## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

ccr12 said:


> I have recently joined the NJATC program at a local. However, I still find the electrical trade to be very interesting, I have doubts about a 5 year commitment let alone a life time commitment to a career as an electrician. I feel that with me coming out of high school this year I should explore other options through college. However, I have a great opportunity ahead of me with electrical work. I don't want to take night or online classes. If I decide to go to college full time I want the exposure of day classes to make sure it is the right fit for me. I just don't want to leave the union and have difficulties getting back in. Is this frowned upon to the union? I guess I just need a little advice, inspiration, and/or guidance. Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thank you!
> 
> This is my first year in the program.


 If you leave you might not get back in. If you try it and don't like it you can always quit and go to school. The only rule for us was we could not go work for a nonunion contractor after our first year of school or we had to pay them for that school time. I would make sure your contract is the same though. Good Luck!:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

ccr12 said:


> I have recently joined the NJATC program at a local. However, I still find the electrical trade to be very interesting, I have doubts about a 5 year commitment let alone a life time commitment to a career as an electrician. I feel that with me coming out of high school this year I should explore other options through college. However, I have a great opportunity ahead of me with electrical work. I don't want to take night or online classes. If I decide to go to college full time I want the exposure of day classes to make sure it is the right fit for me. I just don't want to leave the union and have difficulties getting back in. Is this frowned upon to the union? What should be some questions I would ask the union before I made any decisions? I guess I just need a little advice, inspiration, and/or guidance. Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thank you!
> 
> This is my first year in the program.


Do not leave the union unless it is going to be permanent .

Why would they let you back in when there others that did not get in because you won a spot?:blink: 

You have to make up your mind which way your going to go but you cant have it both ways.

IMO You should stick with it and at the end of 5 years you will either love the trade or hate it.


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

But there never is a sure way to tell if I would love it or hate in the amount of time i have been in it is there?


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

ccr12 said:


> But there never is a sure way to tell if I would love it or hate in the amount of time i have been in it is there?


 Only to do it for a year or so.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

ccr12 I don't want to take night or online classes. If I decide to go to college full time I want the exposure of day classes to make sure it is the right fit for me. [/QUOTE said:


> Guess what college is not a career it is a couple years you don't need day classes to see if It's the right fit for you. It's college!! Get over it evening classes are just as good and just as many girls and you have to remember its college short term then done, an apprenticeship will teach you a trade if you finish it and get your journey card. It is also a great paying job with good Bennies, I would not pass it up.


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## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Finish your apprenticeship and you'll get credits towards college, then you can take night time classes. You're young. Even after apprentice school, you'll still be a kid. Leaving an apprenticeship, isn't smart right now, only because real, skilled, apprenticeships are getting harder and harder to come by, college debt is not.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Skinny hit it on the head. Finish the apprenticeship. You'll work more as an apprentice. If the job market sucks when you finish you can still do college. You won't get back in the apprenticeship if you leave. Once you get your JW card and finish the apprenticeship you'll have those things forever. My advice for "kids" is to pick something and stick with it till you get a license or degree. You are only investing 5 years into this apprenticeship. That's five years of making a paycheck and saving money for college.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Skinny hit it on the head. Finish the apprenticeship. You'll work more as an apprentice. If the job market sucks when you finish you can still do college. You won't get back in the apprenticeship if you leave. Once you get your JW card and finish the apprenticeship you'll have those things forever. My advice for "kids" is to pick something and stick with it till you get a license or degree. You are only investing 5 years into this apprenticeship. That's five years of making a paycheck and saving money for college.


And making enough to have a decent vehicle and a good start on a house. Hell in this market you could probably pay a house off over your apprenticeship not bad for a 5 year commitment even if you decide to do something else after getting your jw card.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

I was in the same position, been in the trade since I was 17 and started the IBEW apprenticeship right out of high school.. Then around 4th year I started having serious doubts about what I was doing and missing out on the college experience and all that crap, ended up quitting after I finished 4th year. Long story short I ended up wishing I had just finished the program, had to go through all the hassle of getting my card thru the state instead of getting it handed to me when I would have topped out, etc. And it turns out there really isn't anything I'd rather be doing, I love electrical work most of the time. 
Still though its pretty normal to have doubts when you start right out of high school I think, but my advice would be to finish. You can always do something else later and if nothing else you'll stay working, make good $ and benefits till you top out. You can't lose by finishing and if afterwards you want to try something else you'll have plenty of time and resources and something to fall back on. Stick it out!!!!!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ccr12 said:


> But there never is a sure way to tell if I would love it or hate in the amount of time i have been in it is there?


There are no guarantees in life, pick a path and go for it, if it is wrong, take the fork in the road. You are young you have a long way to go. Short of a criminal record, getting hurt, getting married or a stupid ass tattoo there is little in life you can do wrong at this point.


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## Sparky226 (Aug 23, 2011)

*Stick it out*

As somebody that just finished the apprenticeship, I can tell you it is worth it. Once you turn out there are so many options available to you. Look at it this way, at the end of five years, most college graduates are looking for work with no experience, only schooling. On the other hand at the end of a five year apprenticeship you have learned a trade, have 5 years work experience and in most cases are only a few hours away from a degree, without racking up huge debt.


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## Clintmiljavac (Aug 18, 2011)

I have been turned out for almost 2 years.. Maybe missed about 2 months my whole apprenticeship! I love the trade and the work. I would say go for it!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Clintmiljavac said:


> I have been turned out for almost 2 years.. Maybe missed about 2 months my whole apprenticeship! I love the trade and the work. I would say go for it!


But every person is different, that’s why there is white and chocolate milk.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Clintmiljavac said:


> I have been turned out for almost 2 years.. Maybe missed about 2 months my whole apprenticeship! I love the trade and the work. I would say go for it!


2 months in five years? I'd hang my head in shame.

Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

ccr12 said:


> I have recently joined the NJATC program at a local. However, I still find the electrical trade to be very interesting, I have doubts about a 5 year commitment let alone a life time commitment to a career as an electrician. I feel that with me coming out of high school this year I should explore other options through college. However, I have a great opportunity ahead of me with electrical work. I don't want to take night or online classes. If I decide to go to college full time I want the exposure of day classes to make sure it is the right fit for me. I just don't want to leave the union and have difficulties getting back in. Is this frowned upon to the union? What should be some questions I would ask the union before I made any decisions? I guess I just need a little advice, inspiration, and/or guidance. Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thank you!
> 
> This is my first year in the program.


At your age five years seems like an eternity. Believe me, it is not. Once you finish your apprenticeship you can study anything you want...actually, you can do it at the same time.


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## Clintmiljavac (Aug 18, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> 2 months in five years? I'd hang my head in shame.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


If you could add it would be 2 months in almost 7 years...what would I have to hang my head about


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Hippie said:


> I was in the same position, been in the trade since I was 17 and started the IBEW apprenticeship right out of high school.. Then around 4th year I started having serious doubts about what I was doing and missing out on the college experience and all that crap, ended up quitting after I finished 4th year. Long story short I ended up wishing I had just finished the program, had to go through all the hassle of getting my card thru the state instead of getting it handed to me when I would have topped out, etc. And it turns out there really isn't anything I'd rather be doing, I love electrical work most of the time.
> Still though its pretty normal to have doubts when you start right out of high school I think, but my advice would be to finish. You can always do something else later and if nothing else you'll stay working, make good $ and benefits till you top out. You can't lose by finishing and if afterwards you want to try something else you'll have plenty of time and resources and something to fall back on. Stick it out!!!!!


The college experience is a bunch of kids finally allowed to act as immature as they wanted to in highschool. Which would be all well and good if it weren't such a waste of money.

I wish I had started the IBEW in New Orleans when I first started the work. Down there you pretty much walk in and you're hired. I'd have 1 more year left. Now I have 2 more years left of this ABC bull, but it's a means to an end. One day, far from here, when I finally decide to settle down in one place I'll join the Union. In the mean time, I'm rattin' it. Scurrying from place to place, working for scraps. :thumbup:


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## bthesparky (Jan 23, 2009)

I turned out in May. Wish i would have done it right out of high school would have been years ahead. You gotta do whats right for you.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

I thought the term was "topped out"

Doesn't "turned out" mean something else entirely?


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## skinnyj41004 (Mar 17, 2007)

Some of te apprentiships are pushing for you to have an associate degree when you top out, that is a good start toward college if electric is not your thing.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

gold said:


> I thought the term was "topped out"
> 
> Doesn't "turned out" mean something else entirely?


If you're a girl.


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> At your age five years seems like an eternity. Believe me, it is not. Once you finish your apprenticeship you can study anything you want...actually, you can do it at the same time.


How do you feel about online classes? Do you think employers see it as the same. It could be an option if I do stay in the program


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

AFOREMA1 said:


> Guess what college is not a career it is a couple years you don't need day classes to see if It's the right fit for you. It's college!! Get over it evening classes are just as good and just as many girls and you have to remember its college short term then done, an apprenticeship will teach you a trade if you finish it and get your journey card. It is also a great paying job with good Bennies, I would not pass it up.


I never meant it as it being a career. Most people say that there are some that are meant for college and some that are not. I simply wish to experience it myself to see if the college life would be a fit in part of my life. Not as a career. Although I do see your point. College is college.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

ccr12 said:


> How do you feel about online classes? Do you think employers see it as the same. It could be an option if I do stay in the program


I would say any thing extra is good but in the classroom and in the field is where you will learn the most..


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Sparky226 said:


> As somebody that just finished the apprenticeship, I can tell you it is worth it. Once you turn out there are so many options available to you. Look at it this way, at the end of five years, most college graduates are looking for work with no experience, only schooling. On the other hand at the end of a five year apprenticeship you have learned a trade, have 5 years work experience and in most cases are only a few hours away from a degree, without racking up huge debt.


How can i find out if i am receiving college credit? The classes will be once a week at the union. Thanks for any details


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> Skinny hit it on the head. Finish the apprenticeship. You'll work more as an apprentice. If the job market sucks when you finish you can still do college. You won't get back in the apprenticeship if you leave. Once you get your JW card and finish the apprenticeship you'll have those things forever. My advice for "kids" is to pick something and stick with it till you get a license or degree. You are only investing 5 years into this apprenticeship. That's five years of making a paycheck and saving money for college.


What is your opinion on why they wouldn't take me back?


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> At your age five years seems like an eternity. Believe me, it is not. Once you finish your apprenticeship you can study anything you want...actually, you can do it at the same time.


Could you explain yourself more on what you mean by studying anything at the same time. Would you recommend night classes? Online? Or something else possibly... Thanks!


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


HARRY304E said:



Do not leave the union unless it is going to be permanent .

Why would they let you back in when there others that did not get in because you won a spot?:blink: 

You have to make up your mind which way your going to go but you cant have it both ways.

IMO You should stick with it and at the end of 5 years you will either love the trade or hate it.

Click to expand...

*Good advice Harry.:thumbsup:

I would finish my apprenticeship before doing anything. Get your card.

I would not worry about what you have to ask the union ..... but what you need to ask yourself. Have a real plan.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


ccr12 said:



What is your opinion on why they wouldn't take me back?

Click to expand...

*Time is money. Your training costs money.


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## JDJ (Aug 9, 2011)

Definitely verify you are getting credits that will transfer. Have seen it too many times now that no reputable college will accept the first credit from the jatc . Came as quite a surprise to brothers and sisters who believed that the rising cost at least would be repaid with a fast path to a Degree.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> I would say any thing extra is good but in the classroom and in the field is where you will learn the most..


CCR12 online classes are not what they were, you can get a whole online electrical engineering or nuclear engineering degree that is abet accredited. You can do your labs and test circuits and all on your laptop. I have a nuclear engineering going back for a masters and maybe a doctorate. I have over 300 credits from online and standard on campus classes. The best way to do it is take some online courses as they are easier to fit in your schedule since you can do them at any time. And then take a couple on campus courses night or day whatever works with your schedule to interact with other students as well.

Hell I'm 41 and still go to school just becuase I enjoy it and I still do on campus courses around running my own business. You just need to remember you will need to work your entire life, so devote the 5 years earn and keep your license renewed and even if you decide electrical is not your thing you will still have it to fall back on if needed.


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Island Electric said:


> Time is money. Your training costs money.


Im paying for the training. 600 for first year


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## ccr12 (Aug 31, 2011)

aforma1 that sounds good to do but with 5 years and then going to college... thats alot of time. what if i get married within 5 years. or buy a house. i couldnt exactly go to school when i have house payments to make. Work part time?


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

Stay in... You get 5 years of school for next to nothing, and you can get a degree as well with a little paper work and a few classes. 

College doesnt really get you much anymore, other then debt.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

ccr12 said:


> Im paying for the training. 600 for first year


That is probably for the books, the only thing you will pay for. The apprentice on the job the other day was complaining about coming up with $500 for books this year and that it was more than the previous years. First year may be the biggest but you will use some of those books for the years to come.
Good luck with your endeavors.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

ccr12 said:


> aforma1 that sounds good to do but with 5 years and then going to college... thats alot of time. what if i get married within 5 years. or buy a house. i couldnt exactly go to school when i have house payments to make. Work part time?


Go to school part time. This is what it comes down to either you want to go to school and party and not work in which case you give up the opportunity. If you were going to college primarily for an education you can go while your doing your apprenticeship or go after your done part time or full time with a mix of on campus and online. It's not hard I went back after the Navy and I worked 12 hours a day 7 days a week while getting my first degree. And I put in significant time at work and still manager to continue in school. 

It's sounds like your trying to make excuses to justify giving up this opportunity so you can just go party. If that is what you want to do then do it. Just be willing to accept that you will probably get a crap job after college and be struggling to pay off college debt and forget about a house you'll probably be mid thirties or more before you make enough to by a house.

Good luck with what ever path you choose but remember opportunities like this are few and far between in life unless tournament rich man's kid.


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## Joeygibbs23 (Sep 16, 2011)

Stay in u will make more money there then going to college plus u gave to pay for college! All my friends that went to college live in apts. And I already have moved into my second house. Plus it's fun to work on construction sites unless u are a pansy!


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## sayn3ver (Sep 13, 2011)

Here is my take: 

I just graduated from college in January 2011. I did 5 years of computer animation and realized about 3 years in that I hated it and the job market looked real bleak. While I was in school i rowed crew and had a real good time doing that. I met made some life long friends through the team and experienced something that has shaped me into who I am now. I have no regrets about rowing and the whole college thing persay. I have about a new car worth of debt though. 

I went to a local university, so i lived at home and commuted daily to campus. I missed out on the whole "college experience" = drinking, sex, drugs, "finding yourself". 

My younger brother went for a year to another college about an hour away. He only went for one year before realizing it wasn't for him. He spent more time drinking and playing sports than learning. He immediately got into the iron workers union and now has his book. That 1 year in college though cost him about $17k.


I just got into the IBEW apprenticeship program in June and have been working since then. If I could do it all over again I'd probably go straight into the program. My brother just bout a house. He is 23. I'm 25 and probably won't be able to be out on my own for another 2 years. 


I didn't find out that i really liked working with my hands until i was in college and working part time with a local home remodeling contractor while in school. 
However, i feel my schooling gave me an edge to be selected into the program and will make my classes much easier knowing I've already had upper level math, physics, etc from college. 


I know this was long, but honestly there is no way for us to tell you what to do. I made some mistakes with my life already, it cost me a few years and some money. I would you suggest you stick with the program and finish. When you are done, you can decide if you wanna go back to college or not. I know you may feel like you're missing out compared to friends in a 4 year college but I think you'll be better off if you indeed like working in a trade. 
*Undergrad schooling is now nothing more than a money making machine. Unless you are going for something serious like pharmacy, premed, engineering, teaching ,math/physics, or accounting/business I think its a waste. * 

I have people keep telling me I'm throwing my education away joining a trade, but I'm proud to be learning a trade. Its what made this country great and we need smart hardworking people in the trades to stay competitive. With all the new technology and building practices, construction workers need to be on their toes just as much as anyone else. Each day it seems out society is relying more and more on electricity and we have to be one of the few trades actually gaining more work. The job I'm on now has almost every door, window, bathroom, wall, floor, ceiling filled with electrical gadgets. Think about it. 

How about the "going green movement"? Wind, solar, nuclear, wave, etc is all being invested in to do what? Make electricity. Who is installing and maintaining these? We are.


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## FireInTheWire (Oct 30, 2011)

Hippie said:


> I was in the same position, been in the trade since I was 17 and started the IBEW apprenticeship right out of high school.. Then around 4th year I started having serious doubts about what I was doing and missing out on the college experience and all that crap, ended up quitting after I finished 4th year. Long story short I ended up wishing I had just finished the program, had to go through all the hassle of getting my card thru the state instead of getting it handed to me when I would have topped out, etc. And it turns out there really isn't anything I'd rather be doing, I love electrical work most of the time.
> Still though its pretty normal to have doubts when you start right out of high school I think, but my advice would be to finish. You can always do something else later and if nothing else you'll stay working, make good $ and benefits till you top out. You can't lose by finishing and if afterwards you want to try something else you'll have plenty of time and resources and something to fall back on. Stick it out!!!!!


SO TRUE. High school counselors tend to not talk about trades very much as an option. I did some college after high school and got into healthcare, but soon realized that all the things I loved to do had to do with physical work and science and problem solving. I signed the Cable Tech book then I applied for the Inside Wireman apprenticeship at my local JATC and got in and will be starting school soon.

Totally stay in apprentice school. I feel like this trade, in the long run, is a good place to be, even though the economy is slow and EVERYONE is feeling the pinch. Like some of the others have said if you don't wanna do it after school is done, then fine, but at least you'll have your journey card!


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## henderson14 (Oct 23, 2010)

ccr12 said:


> How do you feel about online classes? Do you think employers see it as the same. It could be an option if I do stay in the program



Online classes can be seen as OK by some employers, but it has to be from a bricks and mortar college. In other words a real state college. Online colleges like ITT tech and U of Pheonix are for-profit colleges and are under investigation by the federal government. And their credits won't even transfer to a real college program. Your trade school credits won't either.


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