# Adding a main disconnect



## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

So I have to check out this house that supposedly doesn't have a main disconnect. I haven't went there yet but thinking of different options to fix this. 
I will of course check outside for the disconnect first. I know this house doesn't have a basement so the panel will most likely be inside the wall somewhere. So adding a separate main disconnect box inside isn't really doable.
The people are selling the house and don't want a service upgrade. They want cheap as possible.
I am wondering if any of you have done this. A. Pull meter B. Take main wires off main lugs and put on a 2 pole breaker on bus bar (size breaker according to wire size) C. Put meter back in D. Hope house doesn't blow up


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

It might be a split bus panel. It's hard to imagine that someone got away with using a main lug panel.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

Good call rephase. Supposedly a home inspector (probably for a buyer) went through the place and says there is no main disconnect. 
I haven't worked much with split panels but I bet this is the case, if so I should just have to mark the top 6 breakers as MAIN DISCONNECTS


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

A common thing here was to have a Federal Pacific MLO panel installed originally with only 6 breakers. Thru the years they added more breakers which made it non-compliant.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

Hack work thanks for all the good info you have provided me. It seems you chime in on all my questions and I appreciate it.
I just read about federal pacific panels and how they are a huge fire hazard. Would you guys even work on these panels if they don't want an upgrade?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> So I have to check out this house that supposedly doesn't have a main disconnect. I haven't went there yet but thinking of different options to fix this.
> I will of course check outside for the disconnect first. I know this house doesn't have a basement so the panel will most likely be inside the wall somewhere. So adding a separate main disconnect box inside isn't really doable.
> The people are selling the house and don't want a service upgrade. They want cheap as possible.
> I am wondering if any of you have done this. A. Pull meter B. Take main wires off main lugs and put on a 2 pole breaker on bus bar (size breaker according to wire size) C. Put meter back in D. Hope house doesn't blow up


*It is bad form to post about a zany Service that you have never personally witnessed.*

No electrician can depend upon non-electricians to give him an accurate lay of the land.

You just can't.

It's also a bad idea, generally, to get your hopes up dealing with either flippers or SELLERS.

The amount of electrician's tears spent on those fellas would fill a lake.

At a fundamental level, such players are ANGRY with our trade.

Angry at their dependence... and their outlays.

This drives every decision they make.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

Just trying to get some information. Never was in the service side of things. Most my work is commercial and new construction. So when I do these calls like this I come to you guys to see what the " service" guys have done or ran into before


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

If it's 100 amp, adding a new main breaker to an existing panel should be fairly easy. 

If it's full, there's a good chance you can install 2 twin breakers to make 2 empty spaces. 

One bad thing about the twins is some panels won't accept them. And some panels will accept them only in certain spots, usually at the bottom. 

The good thing is that a lot of twins can be modified to fit in normal spots. Of course, this violates UL, NEC, and about 50 other government agencies regulations.....oh well......


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> Hack work thanks for all the good info you have provided me. It seems you chime in on all my questions and I appreciate it.
> I just read about federal pacific panels and how they are a huge fire hazard. Would you guys even work on these panels if they don't want an upgrade?


I wouldn't touch an FPE panel, or add to it. Upgrade or nothing.

But it could be many other things, such as another brand panel or a splitbus panel. 

What you said in the first post is a viable solution if it's truly a main lug panel, but you have to use a breaker hold-down kit on that double pole breaker that you backfeed since a main breaker has to be attached to the panel.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

micromind said:


> If it's 100 amp, adding a new main breaker to an existing panel should be fairly easy.
> 
> If it's full, there's a good chance you can install 2 twin breakers to make 2 empty spaces.
> 
> ...


I would use a cheater breaker before modifying a normal tandem to fit. 

I believe CH-CH is the only breaker that isn't available in a cheater.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Like Hack or Rephase277 said it was probibly a split buss or 6 breaker panel.
A homeowner could have put a new panel in unpermitted.
Really depends what your dealing with.
A modern loadcenter without a main.
Or an old shoebox panel that is due to be changed for several reasons.

When your dealing with old junk the problem with what you describe is where you would get the 2 extra spaces. They may have run out of breaker space years ago and already double or tipple taped what's there.

Old panel inside the house 1st fl. Let me guess - in the closet, bathroom, in kitchen cabinet, or above the drier.

What about the cold water grounding, probibly the closet water pipe, not where it enters the building.

For every 1 thing a home inspector calls and get right, there's probibly 10 other things wrong in front of their face they missed.

Point is if it's old junk there never is a quick compliant fix.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

Hey guys went to the job yesterday and the main disconnect was next to the meter base. Which is legal.
And the double-tap was only on 1 breaker so I used a tandem. Done deal.
What I did learn is that Im gonna start charging minimum of $120 for calls like this and that will not include material.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Excellent idea!


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> Hack work thanks for all the good info you have provided me. It seems you chime in on all my questions and I appreciate it.
> I just read about federal pacific panels and how they are a huge fire hazard. Would you guys even work on these panels if they don't want an upgrade?


My personal opinion , to answer your question about FP's ,
is "no".


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> Hey guys went to the job yesterday and the main disconnect was next to the meter base. Which is legal.
> And the double-tap was only on 1 breaker so I used a tandem. Done deal.
> What I did learn is that Im gonna start charging minimum of $120 for calls like this and that will not include material.


What you should've learned is that you can't trust the tales you hear from civilians.

You end up speculating about imagined problems and Service equipment.

With time, you'll come to understand that this never lets up.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> Hey guys went to the job yesterday and the main disconnect was next to the meter base. Which is legal.
> And the double-tap was only on 1 breaker so I used a tandem. Done deal.
> What I did learn is that Im gonna start charging minimum of $120 for calls like this and that will not include material.


Good show bro!

I think $120 for a service call is low end of the scale.


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