# Inverting a loadcenter when bottom fed



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

No. Many interlocks won't work compliantly upside down so I would be screwing myself out of a future upsell, and it looks stupid. 

Gutter space is never an issue since I don't use AFCIs and I usually only use 30 space panels max.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I've done it on occasion. Sometimes with larger conductors it's easier to land them at the top if there isn't much room for bending at the bottom.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Buy a bottom fed panel or one that can be mounted either way. I understand you don't want service entrance conductors or feeders taking up panel space running from bottom to top.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MTW said:


> Do you turn your loadcenters over if it's bottom fed? There seems to be a phobia around here against doing that, even though all loadcenters are designed to do it. I can't stand seeing gutter space taken up with large feeders for no good reason.


For us, if it's bottom fed, the lugs or main go on the bottom. There isn't any reason for a discussion.
I would for sure consider what Hack mentioned if that is all a possibility.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

I flip them whichever way the feeder is coming in. I always feel a little weird when it's a bottom feed. It seems upside down. Then I close the door and don't care ever again.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Yep. I'm not going to waste wire for no reason.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> Yep. I'm not going to waste wire for no reason.


Do you actually size wire longer when bottom feeding a panel with the breaker at the top?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Why would an interlock not work if the panel was inverted? :confused1:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Why would an interlock not work if the panel was inverted? :confused1:


Read the words that I wrote.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Read the words that I wrote.


I see.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Arrow3030 said:


> I flip them whichever way the feeder is coming in. I always feel a little weird when it's a bottom feed. It seems upside down. Then I close the door and don't care ever again.


Complying with 408.55 is a lot easier done if one does so Arrow

:vs_cool:
~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

A panel I posted in the other thread:










Plenty of gutter space, no big deal.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> Do you actually size wire longer when bottom feeding a panel with the breaker at the top?


Only if I want to terminate the conductors:vs_laugh:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> A panel I posted in the other thread:
> 
> 
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> ...


I agree. The problem is that Homeline and QO arc faults are huge and take up a lot of space. This is where it comes into play.


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> Complying with 408.55 is a lot easier done if one does so Arrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hear you. TBH 408.55 is not one I care about. 

I always kinda felt like that was more for manufacturers than me in the field. In fact I know I read that wire bending space was either added, expanded or modified to take Federal Pacific and/or Zinsco style out of production. I can't credit this info with a source so take it for what it's worth.

I do think about when big conductors are entering the back of a panel though.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> Only if I want to terminate the conductors:vs_laugh:


That's crazy. You should always have enough conductor to terminate anywhere in the panel.

Do I have to pull out the ol' sayings??

_The most expensive wire is a short wire.

It's better to look at it than look for it._


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

HackWork said:


> A panel I posted in the other thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sniff..sniff..that looks so beautiful.:crying:


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

HackWork said:


> A panel I posted in the other thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a great looking panel IMO. Tidy, professional, not overboard. I'm sure we've all gone through an AR stage in our panel make up career where everything had to be meticulously placed. 

Don't mistake me, I have no problem with the main or lug on top for a bottom feed. It's just not what I do. I prefer the big wires to not take up a bunch of space. If my helper asked which way to orient it I'd say, "Up to you."

What are the for sale tags though hack? Are buying romex at the flea market?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Arrow3030 said:


> What are the for sale tags though hack? Are buying romex at the flea market?


Romex and that Siemens turd


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Arrow3030 said:


> > I hear you. TBH 408.55 is not one I care about.
> 
> 
> few do....
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Arrow3030 said:


> That's a great looking panel IMO. Tidy, professional, not overboard. I'm sure we've all gone through an AR stage in our panel make up career where everything had to be meticulously placed.
> 
> Don't mistake me, I have no problem with the main or lug on top for a bottom feed. It's just not what I do. I prefer the big wires to not take up a bunch of space. If my helper asked which way to orient it I'd say, "Up to you."
> 
> What are the for sale tags though hack? Are buying romex at the flea market?


That was a panel I installed to replace an old FPE panel in a condo. The tags were already on the circuits so I left them there, it made identifying the circuits easy.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

*Umm, what?*



TGGT said:


> I've done it on occasion. Sometimes with larger conductors it's easier to land them at the top if there isn't much room for bending at the bottom.


 What the hell am I missing?

If you invert the panel the larger bending space is now at the bottom.

If you don't invert the panel you don't need the larger bending space at the bottom.


:huh:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

How can we really call it inverting when the panel is designed to go either way?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I invert it every single time. I don't give a **** about that cheap asssed interlock as I would rather sell a genset and automatic.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

RePhase277 said:


> How can we really call it inverting when the panel is designed to go either way?


Because North is up and South is down.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

CTshockhazard said:


> What the hell am I missing?
> 
> If you invert the panel the larger bending space is now at the bottom.
> 
> ...


Residential panels have like 18" at the top above the main breaker so you can easily get the wire into the breaker no matter what.

But I remember bottom feeding some commercial panels with the lugs on the bottom and having like 12" or less to get 500's out of the pipe and into the lugs. I wish they ordered top fed panels so that I could bring the conductors up the side and make nice sweeps up and then down into the lugs.


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