# Condo panel breaker replacement question



## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Can you put up a pic? 
P&L


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## Rush2112 (Feb 20, 2017)

*Picture*

http://i.imgur.com/yknPgFE.jpg


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

The arc fault looks tripped. Did you try pushing it to full off then back to on?
Also, what province are you in? 
P&L


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## Rush2112 (Feb 20, 2017)

PlugsAndLights said:


> The arc fault looks tripped. Did you try pushing it to full off then back to on?
> Also, what province are you in?
> P&L


Alberta. Yeah the test button has been pushed and the breaker has been reset several times.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Rush2112 said:


> Alberta. Yeah the test button has been pushed and the breaker has been reset several times.


OK, but just to be clear; You pushed it the FULLY OFF position first? 
P&L


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## Rush2112 (Feb 20, 2017)

PlugsAndLights said:


> OK, but just to be clear; You pushed it the FULLY OFF position first?
> P&L



Both fully left, fully right. And fully right fully left.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Probably time to change the breaker. I see you're Elect Technologist. 
Probably best to hire an electrician and let them find the disconnect,
or do it live, or whatever they decide to do. 
BTW, the current Ontario code requires local disconnect but I don't know 
about Alberta, and, even if current requires it it doesn't mean it was 
required when the place was built. Code Ref 14-418
P&L


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

Often the disconnect for each house panel is with each individual power meters in a condo set up...look for the meter bank.


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## Rush2112 (Feb 20, 2017)

PlugsAndLights said:


> Probably time to change the breaker. I see you're Elect Technologist.
> Probably best to hire an electrician and let them find the disconnect,
> or do it live, or whatever they decide to do.
> BTW, the current Ontario code requires local disconnect but I don't know
> ...


I don't think it has a disconnect though. I'm sure I would have seen it in the electrical room for the entire building. I feel like I could do it live, but I also have a friend who is a 3rd year electrician. 
I'm looking at the 2015 CEC and I don't see a code for 14-418? So if the code wasn't required when it was built, it's still okay right?
Thanks I appreciate the help.


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## Rush2112 (Feb 20, 2017)

scotch said:


> Often the disconnect for each house panel is with each individual power meters in a condo set up...look for the meter bank.


Just check this out too, about the split bus panels:
http://www.buellinspections.com/split-bus-electrical-panels-no-main-breaker/


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

It has to have a main breaker ...or fuse panel...you were never allowed to feed direct from the poco to your panel bus.


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## Rush2112 (Feb 20, 2017)

scotch said:


> Often the disconnect for each house panel is with each individual power meters in a condo set up...look for the meter bank.


I was in the main electrical room and I didn't see any meter banks.

Thanks


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

It would be very unusual to have one power meter only for the condo group ...I would bet there's a meter room so they can individually meter to each condo . Track it down.....


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## Rush2112 (Feb 20, 2017)

scotch said:


> It would be very unusual to have one power meter only for the condo group ...I would bet there's a meter room so they can individually meter to each condo . Track it down.....


But how? If the building owner only knows about the one electrical room that was already checked, how would any electrician comes find it? Walk around the inside and outside everywhere?

Thanks


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Rush2112 said:


> Just check this out too, about the split bus panels:
> http://www.buellinspections.com/split-bus-electrical-panels-no-main-breaker/


Rush, 
Go back and re-read that part about the "6 throw rule". 
In the correct set-up 5 of those breakers feed large two pole loads, and the sixth feeds the lower buss that the branch circuits are on, so if you can shut down the service with no more that "six throws" it's legal.

Not what you have with that MLO panel.


If there were no meter banks or feeder breakers in the "Main Electric Room" than what exactly was in there?

How many units in this building?


edit: My first paragraph is NFPA, CEC may differ, P&L?


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Rush2112 said:


> I don't think it has a disconnect though. I'm sure I would have seen it in the electrical room for the entire building. I feel like I could do it live, but I also have a friend who is a 3rd year electrician.
> I'm looking at the 2015 CEC and I don't see a code for 14-418? So if the code wasn't required when it was built, it's still okay right?
> Thanks I appreciate the help.


No, you won't see 14-418, it's an Ontario amendment. We have our 
own code book, based on the CEC. From what I gather Alta amends
the CEC by way of Standata. 
I'm disinclined to encourage you to change this hot. 
P&L


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## scotch (Oct 17, 2013)

All I can say is there usually is an individual meter c/w main breaker ...set up for each individual condo ...fed from main incoming power switch . Look for incoming power feed outside ...where does it enter the building .


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## Maple_Syrup25 (Nov 20, 2012)

Call a licenced electrician to fix. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Signal1 said:


> Rush,
> Go back and re-read that part about the "6 throw rule".
> In the correct set-up 5 of those breakers feed large two pole loads, and the sixth feeds the lower buss that the branch circuits are on, so if you can shut down the service with no more that "six throws" it's legal.
> 
> ...


I don't know if split bus panels exist up here. Never seen one. Never
seen anything in the code about them either. 
Regardless, I agree with @Signal1 , that isn't a split bus; you can 
turn off every breaker and the buss will still be live. 
Be very surprised if there isn't a disconnect for that unit somewhere. 
P&L


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

One more thought: unplug everything on the circuit that's off, then try resetting 
the breaker again. Might be a cord/lamp/appliance problem. 
P&L


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

You are not licensed, so stay out of your grandparents panel.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Your 3rd year apprentice friend should only do it if he is doing it for his company, not while you are holding his beer. There is no insurance while the unqualified are playing electrician.

There are disconnects for all the condos, but rarely are they located in the main electrical room.
Since you just said "condo" I have no idea of the building configuration. Could be a 40 story building or a 3 unit house. 

It's possible that the breaker failed, but is also very likely there is an electrical problem in the circuit or something plugged in or light/dimmer. 

The older Square D Arc Fault breakers had GFCI protection on them as well. A common problem was the bond (ground) touches a neutral and the breaker trips or won't turn on.

There are some things to check first, before looking at shutting down the panel to change a breaker.

Unplug everything and shut off lights, if ut does not reset then.
Call and Electrician.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Do your grandparents pay a hydro bill? Thought so. That means there's a meter, and if nobody else, hydro knows where it is. Like scotch said, there's a meter bank somewhere, and that's where the breaker controlling your gramps place is. If the owner doesn't know where it is then they don't know their building very well.

All that being said, I also agree that this is licensed electrician territory, not for you or your friend to figure out.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Finding the main isn't going to fix the problem. And you can't test the breaker with the main off anyway. I'm betting it's a back stabbed receptacle somewhere.


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