# How do you rate this?



## Meadow

I think he might have left something out?


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## scrooge

Bond his lift to system.


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## chicken steve

Those noodles just make phz top phz .....? :blink: ~CS~


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## Meadow

chicken steve said:


> Those noodles just make phz top phz .....? :blink: ~CS~



phz? :blink:


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## chicken steve

*Phase* AT........

please excuse my use of abbreviative terminology when i'm posting behind the bar here ......:whistling2:~CS~:no:


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## Meadow

chicken steve said:


> *Phase* AT........
> 
> please excuse my use of abbreviative terminology when i'm posting behind the bar here ......:whistling2:~CS~:no:



Just me happy those noddles are jacketed :thumbsup:


https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsar...-Neutral-Cable-and-Stray-Voltage~20040128.php


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## chicken steve

So stupid Q time please.....towards the end of the vid we see the noodles made to _each other_ (marked 331). 

No MBJ? 

~CS~


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## Meadow

chicken steve said:


> So stupid Q time please.....towards the end of the vid we see the noodles made to _each other_ (marked 331).
> 
> No MBJ?
> 
> ~CS~



Im guessing the steal is already bonded to the substation equal potential grid.


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## JW Splicer

He didn't clean the cable, sand it, or take off his dirty gloves while preparing cable. also he didn't seal the neutrals from water migration... 

Steve those are parallel runs of the same phase, neutrals are tied together and brought down to the counterpoise. As are the other two phases. Neuts are almost always derated in a utility because you have a parallel path with the other two phases neutrals as well as the earth.


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## EB Electric

I am just learning and practicing cable splicing and terminating power cables at work now, and I gotta agree with JW Splicer... watching him do the term in his gloves the entire time then not even clean the cable at all.... just wrong. Maybe he cleaned it and it's just not in the video, who knows, but that's a pretty critical step...far from a complete how to video if you ask me. Icing on the cake is when he torques the lug down with the impact gun.


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## oliquir

i was thinking connections needed to be torqued to specs, cant do that with an impact


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## Meadow

EB Electric said:


> I am just learning and practicing cable splicing and terminating power cables at work now, and I gotta agree with JW Splicer... watching him do the term in his gloves the entire time then not even clean the cable at all.... just wrong. Maybe he cleaned it and it's just not in the video, who knows, but that's a pretty critical step...far from a complete how to video if you ask me. Icing on the cake is when he torques the lug down with the impact gun.



How long do you that connection will last? :laughing:


Id argue its not so bad as an elbow, but still. Those connections can develop corona which might take years till something happens. Also, do over head stress cones need a drain wire like elbows do?


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## JW Splicer

AcidTrip said:


> How long do you that connection will last? :laughing:
> 
> 
> Id argue its not so bad as an elbow, but still. Those connections can develop corona which might take years till something happens. Also, do over head stress cones need a drain wire like elbows do?



Truth is, it's probably fine and will last as long as it needs too, the kits nowadays are damn near bullet proof. I also doubt the impact gun significantly compromised the connection. (I still wouldn't do it...)

Unless the utility is grounding only one end of the cable for shield current, all terminations on shielded cable require the shield to be terminated to ground, and most likely every splice is bonded as well. Bonding only one end can reduce shield currents, which can negatively affect the cables current carrying capacity, the danger is that you develop a high voltage potential on the ungrounded cable end, sometimes near line voltage. I have never seen a termination that wasn't bonded to ground in a distribution circuit.


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## Meadow

JW Splicer said:


> Truth is, it's probably fine and will last as long as it needs too, the kits nowadays are damn near bullet proof. I also doubt the impact gun significantly compromised the connection. (I still wouldn't do it...)
> 
> Unless the utility is grounding only one end of the cable for shield current, all terminations on shielded cable require the shield to be terminated to ground, and most likely every splice is bonded as well. Bonding only one end can reduce shield currents, which can negatively affect the cables current carrying capacity, the danger is that you develop a high voltage potential on the ungrounded cable end, sometimes near line voltage. I have never seen a termination that wasn't bonded to ground in a distribution circuit.



Correct, but I mean the stress cone itself, does it always need a drain wire?


And speaking of connections, are 35kv joints more likely to fail when terminated as shown the 15kv joints?


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## Meadow

To clarify, but drain I mean single bond to the insulated code or elbow:


http://msmmarketing.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/35kV-Deadbreak-Insul-Cap-Thumb-web.png


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## JW Splicer

Oh ok! Gotcha! No only semiconductive premolded rubber terminations and splices need the drain wire... i.e. 200A loadbreak and deadbreak elbows, 600A T bodies and receptacles and some OLD ugly pre molded rubber stress cones... If it's tape or shrink technology there won't be a drain wire. The higher the voltage, the more important it is to stay clean and nick/sweat/blood/dirt free. Although failure can and often does occur at lower voltages. I've seen some complete crap that has been in and packing for 40-50 years...

Transmission cable is completely unforgiving and a failure will likely wreck your career... Or so they say (that's all through word of mouth)


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## Meadow

JW Splicer said:


> Oh ok! Gotcha! No only semiconductive premolded rubber terminations and splices need the drain wire... i.e. 200A loadbreak and deadbreak elbows, 600A T bodies and receptacles and some OLD ugly pre molded rubber stress cones... If it's tape or shrink technology there won't be a drain wire. The higher the voltage, the more important it is to stay clean and nick/sweat/blood/dirt free. Although failure can and often does occur at lower voltages. I've seen some complete crap that has been in and packing for 40-50 years...
> 
> Transmission cable is completely unforgiving and a failure will likely wreck your career... Or so they say (that's all through word of mouth)



Ahhh, ok. Thanks! Any reason for omitting the drain wire? Id think shrink stuff would still have a surface charge?


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## JW Splicer

AcidTrip said:


> Ahhh, ok. Thanks! Any reason for omitting the drain wire? Id think shrink stuff would still have a surface charge?


Those rubber boots are a semiconductor. The shrink/tape stuff is an insulator. You really shouldn't develop any voltage on the jacket/surface because the shield should be grounded at both ends.


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## Meadow

JW Splicer said:


> Those rubber boots are a semiconductor. The shrink/tape stuff is an insulator. You really shouldn't develop any voltage on the jacket/surface because the shield should be grounded at both ends.



So basically the rubber boots let resistive voltage through while the the shrink stuff is a true insulator like porcelain? I always assumed it was the capacitive coupling effect that made elbows live needing a drain wire.


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## Big John

JW Splicer said:


> Those rubber boots are a semiconductor. The shrink/tape stuff is an insulator...


 Righto. To clarify a little, the interior of UG boots is an insulator just like the stress cone weather shed. The interior length + dielectric grease is what stops tracking. The exterior of the boot is semicon for stress control since the unshielded boot could be near grounded surface. Without the bond wire you run the risk of a hazardous capacitive charge and possible partial discharge.

No need for a drain on a stress cone because by design the careful concentric construction and required air gap keeps field grading under control.


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## JW Splicer

AcidTrip said:


> So basically the rubber boots let resistive voltage through while the the shrink stuff is a true insulator like porcelain? I always assumed it was the capacitive coupling effect that made elbows live needing a drain wire.


Big John nailed it on the head, and you are right, there can be a capacitive coupling that can discharge to ground and cause failure. 

On a side note, We recently had a feeder cable near a buss in the metal clad that had pinholes in the jacket from the bus occasionally arcing through the jacket to the shield.


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## Meadow

JW Splicer said:


> Big John nailed it on the head, and you are right, there can be a capacitive coupling that can discharge to ground and cause failure.
> 
> On a side note, We recently had a feeder cable near a buss in the metal clad that had pinholes in the jacket from the bus occasionally arcing through the jacket to the shield.



What caused this to happen?

On a side not, when you guys use mobile subs, are the cables shielded or un-shielded during the hook up? My understanding is EPR jumper cables will do fine, but over time (months) develop pin holes from corona.


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## Big John

AcidTrip said:


> ...My understanding is EPR jumper cables will do fine, but over time (months) develop pin holes from corona.


 Absolutely. That damn red jumper cable is the bane of my existence.

It's really common OEM wiring, and I suppose to their credit by the time we find it, it has already been jn effective service for years, but it will have massive corona damage if it hasn't failed completely.

It often has to be replaced with unshielded and we're using silicone instead of EPR. With thicker insulation and better stress control I'm hoping this stuff has a longer service life.


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## JW Splicer

We don't have any mobile subs, what caused the pinholes on that particular feeder was the cable was to close to the buss, the jacket is not actually rated for that voltage 13750V so it jumped the gap to the cable shield.


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## Meadow

Big John said:


> Absolutely. That damn red jumper cable is the bane of my existence.
> 
> It's really common OEM wiring, and I suppose to their credit by the time we find it, it has already been jn effective service for years, but it will have massive corona damage if it hasn't failed completely.
> 
> It often has to be replaced with unshielded and we're using silicone instead of EPR. With thicker insulation and better stress control I'm hoping this stuff has a longer service life.



Do they even make un-shielded cable anymore besides jumpers?


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## Meadow

JW Splicer said:


> We don't have any mobile subs, what caused the pinholes on that particular feeder was the cable was to close to the buss, the jacket is not actually rated for that voltage 13750V so it jumped the gap to the cable shield.





Yup, that will do it :laughing:


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## Flex277

AcidTrip said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juKPD3tVRgs
> 
> 
> I think he might have left something out?




Hey those look familiar,,no die electric grease?? Don't have to sand anymore according to manufacturer depending on the cable.would rather have you grease it good. I put two layers of mastic down at the base when I have concentric neutrals., and I was always taught to scotchbrite the pad, then dip your wire brush in no-Ox then rub it on with the brush. And can't believe he didn't torque them and that he used the impact.


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