# steady work?



## seo (Oct 28, 2008)

I would recommend taking the test it won't hurt. And maybe if you score high enough to get an interview you might make it in. Your choice. Good luck.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If union is strong in your area I would suggest keep trying as you work and learn open shop.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Take brian johns advice.it worked out very well for me doing the same thing.more or less.


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## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

Work is gonna be slow sometimes in the union and the trade on a whole. If you are one who don't save and live check to check. You may want to stay non union.

I would tell you to get into the union sooner rather then later if thats what you want to do. If you are use to one way of doing things, the change later in your career will be harder.

PS. Don't let us confuse you too much. The electrical field is a good field with great brothers and sister on both sides of the fence. At the end of the day we all respect each other and thats the most important part.

Good luck.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

edward said:


> This debate between union and non-union fascinates me. I am 22 years old, I've been working as a non-union, apprentice electrician and I have about 5,000 hours. In this time I have had to work for several contractors due to lack of jobs in my area.
> 
> Last year when I was laid off I applied with the local around here, nearly a year later I received a letter inviting me to take the aptitude test at the end of this month. As I have been reading these posts however, it seems that you really need to know someone in the union, or have family in it. (observation only, correct me if I am wrong)
> 
> I am simply trying to take care of myself, hopefully a family someday, and contribute to the growth of the electrical field. I would love to hear some opinions from some of the members here in how I can achieve a comfortable situation in the electrical field.


Go for it.
If you can get in, work hard, get dirty and go home tired. People will notice. 
You will have paid insurance for your family and some retirement money when the time comes.
Join the committees, get involved and give back some time when you can. Remember your local is a non-profit and needs many volunteers to operate.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

jrannis said:


> ...Remember your local is a non-profit and needs many volunteers to operate.


 BHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah a non-profit with $650 MILLION in assets that pays its president $350K a year and about 20 VPs $250K a year with union owned Condos in Aruba and Hawaii. Oh and lets not forget the millions of dollars is spends in lobbying each year. 

The BA and the staff at the hall are pretty well paid too and have better benefits than the membership but if you want to volunteer your time, I am sure they will let you.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> BHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Yeah a non-profit with $650 MILLION in assets that pays its president $350K a year and about 20 VPs $250K a year with union owned Condos in Aruba and Hawaii. Oh and lets not forget the millions of dollars is spends in lobbying each year.
> 
> The BA and the staff at the hall are pretty well paid too and have better benefits than the membership but if you want to volunteer your time, I am sure they will let you.


Much like congress, you get what we give you, we TAKE what we want.

Mad at auto manufactures for private jets But Pelosi complained her jet was too small and DEMANDED a bigger jet.

Mad at high salaries of executives but doing nothing to curtail their wage benefit package.

You do not pay taxes and off to the pokey, they do not pay taxes and it is a minor indiscretion (per Big O)


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## europamo (Jul 21, 2008)

It depends on how strong your local is. Im in Washington DC. We have been feeling the heat for a bit, about 700 "A" Mechanics are out of work. Apprentices seem to be ok, except a few seem to have 32 hour work weeks. 

I like being union but I also go where the work is, meaning if it dried up a lot here I would try and find a better place. good luck


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> BHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Yeah a non-profit with $650 MILLION in assets that pays its president $350K a year and about 20 VPs $250K a year with union owned Condos in Aruba and Hawaii. Oh and lets not forget the millions of dollars is spends in lobbying each year.
> 
> The BA and the staff at the hall are pretty well paid too and have better benefits than the membership but if you want to volunteer your time, I am sure they will let you.


No Comment!
Your avatar and location (Best and brightest are two Bushs and Johnson) explains everything.:thumbup:

OK lets not lobby our cause.
Lets hire an exceutive that will work for $60k a year.

No Thanks!!


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## TB1975 (Feb 21, 2009)

Just a quick answer here... Go for it, it can only advance your career. Also, let them know you want "to do things the right way" and mean it. That will go a long way in your interview. Be willing to work out of your home area if you want to work steady all the time, thats just the way things go when the economy is bad.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

jrannis said:


> No Comment!
> Your avatar and location (Best and brightest are two Bushs and Johnson) explains everything.:thumbup:
> 
> ....


 Is that all you could come up with? What an embarrassing rebuttal, you may want to try that again with an actual argument or point or something.


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

edward said:


> Last year when I was laid off I applied with the local around here, nearly a year later I received a letter inviting me to take the aptitude test at the end of this month. As I have been reading these posts however, it seems that you really need to know someone in the union, or have family in it. (observation only, correct me if I am wrong)


I applied to the union directly (was not sponsored) and got in and none of my family even work in a trade. Your local may be different but you don't _have_ to know someone to get in, at least not here. Though I'm sure it doesn't hurt, of course.

Be aware that you may not get credit for all 5000 hours. Also, if the work situation is bad for non-union, how likely is it to be better for union workers?

Still, you may as well take the test anyway. Are you sure it isn't the test itself that's bothering you?


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

Well I took the test this morning. The math was not difficult, although I should have studied graphs a bit more. I was really surprised how easy the reading aspect of the test was. I had enough time to recheck my reading answers three times haha. We shall see what happens now.


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

Good luck.


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## lucadafishes (Aug 13, 2012)

*A year to test?*

Wow, I had to wait a month to take the test, hopefully that's a sign that they're hard up around here... got the interview coming up.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

edward said:


> This debate between union and non-union fascinates me. I am 22 years old, I've been working as a non-union, apprentice electrician and I have about 5,000 hours. In this time I have had to work for several contractors due to lack of jobs in my area.
> 
> Last year when I was laid off I applied with the local around here, nearly a year later I received a letter inviting me to take the aptitude test at the end of this month. As I have been reading these posts however, it seems that you really need to know someone in the union, or have family in it. (observation only, correct me if I am wrong)
> 
> I am simply trying to take care of myself, hopefully a family someday, and contribute to the growth of the electrical field. I would love to hear some opinions from some of the members here in how I can achieve a comfortable situation in the electrical field.


By all means apply. Every local is different and every local has different reasons for bringing in apprentices. Since they invited you, you ought to take advantage and go.

Keep in mind nothing, union or non-union can give you steady work. Everyone is subject to ups and downs.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

PhatElvis said:


> BHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Yeah a non-profit with $650 MILLION in assets that pays its president $350K a year and about 20 VPs $250K a year with union owned Condos in Aruba and Hawaii. Oh and lets not forget the millions of dollars is spends in lobbying each year.
> 
> The BA and the staff at the hall are pretty well paid too and have better benefits than the membership but if you want to volunteer your time, I am sure they will let you.


So let us dissect this a bit shall we.

unionfacts dot com ( run by the anti union lobbyist Rick Berman ) which should support your claims only mentions 11 VPs, none of which earn $250K per year. They do show President Hill makes 375K per year.

At best that is say 10 times what an apprentice makes in a year.

To balance that out, the average S&P 500 ceo salary was 12.9 million or 380 times what it's average worker pay.

650M in assets is really 480M in assets.

I won't bother to mention that googling 'ibew condos in aruba' comes up with basically your own post from 2009 with no other evidence.

The millions in lobbying is true - but do we need to go into the amount of anti-union lobbying money spent?

Yes, the folks in the local union office are well paid, but they carry the same benefits as everyone else in the local.

I don't know why you feel like you have to make things up to make your point, but please do everyone the courtesy to not be so blatant about it.

Thank you.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> I don't know why you feel like you have to make things up to make your point


 
"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - *Abraham Lincoln* 


~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Remember your local is a non-profit and needs many volunteers to operate.


If I was drinking something I'd be wiping it off my computer screen right now. Funniest line of the year nomination. :lol:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> If I was drinking something I'd be wiping it off my computer screen right now. Funniest line of the year nomination. :lol:



Hopefully he was just trolling because I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that, and certainly nobody would ever believe that.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - *Abraham Lincoln*
> 
> 
> ~CS~


Where do I send the bill for a new keyboard? :laughing:


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## Fractured (Feb 15, 2011)

/ end thread jack


I got in pretty quickly. I have no relatives in the trade, and I got in 3 years ago but my local has a ton of work (silicon valley, LU 332). 

Best thing I ever did. 

I am tired everyday, but proud to be union.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - *Abraham Lincoln*
> 
> 
> ~CS~


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## chris856 (Jun 12, 2009)

I am working more than I did when I was non union, but I am still an apprentice. Since it sounds like you are still an apprentice I would go for it, hopefully things won't be so bad in a few years and we will stay busy when we turn out.
I didn't know anyone myself, but my expierience pretty much shot me to the top of the list. Hopefully they have the same attitude in your local.


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## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

eejack said:


> So let us dissect this a bit shall we.
> 
> unionfacts dot com ( run by the anti union lobbyist Rick Berman ) which should support your claims only mentions 11 VPs, none of which earn $250K per year. They do show President Hill makes 375K per year.
> 
> ...


First off, comparing a for profit companies CEO's salary to a NPO's salary is absurd. 

Secondly, please feel free to get the IBEW's Form 990 from them. It explains their income and payment, as well as officers. 

It's here. 

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2010/530/088/2010-530088380-069c529f-9O.pdf

Pres. Hill does in fact make 346,000 per year, plus an additional 138,000 in other benefits. 

Pay special attention to page 38 of the PDF. It lists all salaries and additional benefits.

ETA: Is it POSSIBLE the IBEW has a condo in Aruba? Sure. Is it LIKELY? Not really. It would have shown up on the Form 990, and I didn't see any of that liability listed. Now, if it belongs to some local somewhere, it wouldn't show for the IBEW national office. So, there's no telling. But, I didn't find anything of the sort. Consider that claim bogus until more proof is offered.


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## millelec (Nov 20, 2010)

All union officials have to disclose their pay to the Dept of Labor. You can look up how much money your Local officials are being paid here:


http://kcerds.dol-esa.gov/query/getOrgQry.do

(Link may take a minute or 2 to load)


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

To be fair 350,000.00 plus the added benefits are minimal salary for controlling an organization the size of the IBEW.

Particularly as they have the market share of work and 100% employment. JUST A JOKE could hold back.:whistling2::blink::laughing:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> First off, comparing a for profit companies CEO's salary to a NPO's salary is absurd.
> 
> Secondly, please feel free to get the IBEW's Form 990 from them. It explains their income and payment, as well as officers.
> 
> ...


I was looking at 2010, a year closer and at the number of vps - not just folks who made money...as the poster I quoted did.

I don't find it absurd to compare them to CEO's...similar responsibilities but with lots of additional oversight and the burden of elections. Keep in mind it is a 700,000+ member workforce. Compare to that size and scope.

I consider the entire post bogus - since every verifiable fact came back wrong. Even more so since that post was from 2009 ( unintentional gravedig on my part ) and the 990's for that year would not have been out yet - so he was looking back at 06, 07 maybe.

It is typical of the trolls to just make things up and throw it out there. Repeat the lies often enough and folks believe them. Couch them in patriotic lingo and it is more effective.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

*pro union*

the only thing i regret about joining the union is not doing it sooner. worked open shop for 13 years. lost over half my 401k when i left after6 years with one contractor when they told me had to be vested for 7 years to collect their 50% matching. didnt look back. they told me that union guys only worked half of the year and the other half laid off. think they were just trying to use brainwash tactics. they just didnt want me on the other team. was talking to a guy i work with. he is currently salting a non union shop in town. he made a great statement about associated builders and contractors. why is it ok for management to belong to a organization and not their employees. cause thats basically what abc is. a union of contractors to get together and discuss the operation of buisness. i have learned so many more skills since joining the ibew. another thing they had told to keep away from ibew was that there wasnt any way to move up once topped out. all untrue. i have been offered office jobs etc.. also have turned down offers from companies that were customers of ours. it is and always will be what you make of it. sure there will always be guys trying to just get by with the bare minimum. thats everywhere. trust me. union and non union. and furthermore. i have no relation. if it wasnt for the union, they would be trying to pay us minimum wage.


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## Potential11 (Nov 14, 2011)

edward said:


> This debate between union and non-union fascinates me. I am 22 years old, I've been working as a non-union, apprentice electrician and I have about 5,000 hours. In this time I have had to work for several contractors due to lack of jobs in my area.
> 
> Last year when I was laid off I applied with the local around here, nearly a year later I received a letter inviting me to take the aptitude test at the end of this month. As I have been reading these posts however, it seems that you really need to know someone in the union, or have family in it. (observation only, correct me if I am wrong)


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## Potential11 (Nov 14, 2011)

In my opinion it depends on the work picture in your area.When work picks up they will take in many people. It always helps to know someone, but it is your will and determination that will get you in and keep you in. Don't let up. Keep trying to get in and you will. Good luck.


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## keepdry (Jul 24, 2012)

I did not know anyone in my local before I was accepted. In my class of 20 there were a few guys that had family ties, most did not. I have had good luck and have been steadily employed for nearly ten years now. I've had a few rough spots when work was slow. Two or three days a week. Overall it has been great. I can't complain.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

edward said:


> I am simply trying to take care of myself, hopefully a family someday, and contribute to the growth of the electrical field. I would love to hear some opinions from some of the members here in how I can achieve a comfortable situation in the electrical field.


Find a niche and become very, very good at it.


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