# Residential new construction wiring



## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

How many rec can you put on a single 15 or 20 amp general purpose branch circuit, when wiring up bedrooms or other outlets within the home. I have always used the 180 va rule for duplex rec. Do you know of any code section that would enforce this rule for residential dwellings???


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> How many rec can you put on a single 15 or 20 amp general purpose branch circuit, when wiring up bedrooms or other outlets within the home. I have always used the 180 va rule for duplex rec. Do you know of any code section that would enforce this rule for residential dwellings???


There is no limit, there is no code limiting the number of outlets in a dwelling.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> How many rec can you put on a single 15 or 20 amp general purpose branch circuit, when wiring up bedrooms or other outlets within the home. I have always used the 180 va rule for duplex rec. Do you know of any code section that would enforce this rule for residential dwellings???


 I just go by the load calculations in ARTICLE 220..:thumbsup:


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

backstay said:


> There is no limit, there is no code limiting the number of outlets in a dwelling.


So, what if I use the same circuit and also use it for rec and lighting would there be an issue?


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> So, what if I use the same circuit and also use it for rec and lighting would there be an issue?


Nope, the lights and receptacles can be on the same circuit except for a couple of instances such as the laundry circuit, small appliance branch circuits and the bathroom receptacle circuit if it supplies more than one bathroom.

Chris


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

raider1 said:


> Nope, the lights and receptacles can be on the same circuit except for a couple of instances such as the laundry circuit, small appliance branch circuits and the bathroom receptacle circuit if it supplies more than one bathroom.
> 
> Chris


 So if the home owner install a in wall small A/C unit in one of the bedrooms," new construction" I can still install as many rec outlets that I need with the same 
General purpose branch circuit?


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## electures (Oct 23, 2008)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> How many rec can you put on a single 15 or 20 amp general purpose branch circuit, when wiring up bedrooms or other outlets within the home. I have always used the 180 va rule for duplex rec. Do you know of any code section that would enforce this rule for residential dwellings???


As many as you want.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> So if the home owner install a in wall small A/C unit in one of the bedrooms," new construction" I can still install as many rec outlets that I need with the same
> General purpose branch circuit?


If the home owner is to install a small wall A/C unit then they must comply with 440.62.

Chris


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Sal, I find it strange that a "master electrician" is asking the questions asked in this thread.


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## Edrick (Jun 6, 2010)

I thought the same thing my self


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Also depends on what state your're in. Are there ammendments to NEC in NY? If not, then no limit (you won't overload anyway).

New Mexico's ammend. states "no more than 10 outlets" (recept., light, etc.)


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I know there is no limit on the number of receptacles but it seems I recall a circuit can't run over 500 sq ft(resi)? :blink: It could be a local code IDK.....:blink:


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I know there is no limit on the number of receptacles but it seems I recall a circuit can't run over 500 sq ft? :blink: It could be a local code IDK.....:blink:


 500 sq ft !! :001_huh:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

You can put as many as you want but there is a number that if you exceed, your are a hack.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> Sal, I find it strange that a "master electrician" is asking the questions asked in this thread.


Hey, you cant know everything. I'm going for my NYC license I'm trying to get familiar again with the code book. Sounds heard to believe. 
And it's amazing how so many people interpret the NEC different from one another. 
And how do you I'm not screwing with you guys anyway??? I could be someone you know. LOL


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> I know there is no limit on the number of receptacles but it seems I recall a circuit can't run over 500 sq ft(resi)? :blink: It could be a local code IDK.....:blink:


What you are thinking of is 210.11(B). This section requires the loads calculated on the basis of VA per square foot the loads are required to be evenly proportioned amount the required number of branch circuits.

So for example a 15 amp general lighting and receptacle branch circuit can supply 1800 VA of load and at 3 VA per square foot that would mean that that circuit could supply the loads in a 600 square foot area. A 20 amp circuit could supply loads in an 800 square foot area.

Chris


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

raider1 said:


> What you are thinking of is 210.11(B). This section requires the loads calculated on the basis of VA per square foot the loads are required to be evenly proportioned amount the required number of branch circuits.
> 
> So for example a 15 amp general lighting and receptacle branch circuit can supply 1800 VA of load and at 3 VA per square foot that would mean that that circuit could supply the loads in a 600 square foot area. A 20 amp circuit could supply loads in an 800 square foot area.
> 
> Chris



I knew I remembered something like that. Thanks Chris!:thumbsup:


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Hey, you cant know everything. I'm going for my NYC license I'm trying to get familiar again with the code book. Sounds heard to believe.
> And it's amazing how so many people interpret the NEC different from one another.
> And how do you I'm not screwing with you guys anyway???* I could be someone you know.* LOL




I don't think so...I've met with a few people here in the forum Chris being one of them. Chris's credentials are intact and solid, as is his reasoning. 

Now about that master's license you possess...inquiring mind's want to know??? Especially when your new here in these here parts....:whistling2:

It's not that you we won't help you, but we have questions too....:laughing::no:


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Rockyd said:


> I don't think so...I've met with a few people here in the forum Chris being one of them. Chris's credentials are intact and solid, as is his reasoning.
> 
> Now about that master's license you possess...inquiring mind's want to know??? Especially when your new here in these here parts....:whistling2:
> 
> It's not that you we won't help you, but we have questions too....:laughing::no:


Yes, I hold a Masters electricians in the state of Ct and Westchester county , NY doesn't have a state license
Would you like my ID number?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Hey, I NEVER said anybody needs to, or should, know everything. Not even close. 
My point is someone who claims this:


Salvatoreg02 said:


> Yes, I hold a Masters electricians in the state of Ct and Westchester county , NY doesn't have a state license


...should NOT need to ask this:


Salvatoreg02 said:


> How many rec can you put on a single 15 or 20 amp general purpose branch circuit, when wiring up bedrooms or other outlets within the home. I have always used the 180 va rule for duplex rec. Do you know of any code section that would enforce this rule for residential dwellings???


Even if you don't know it from memory, you'd certainly know right where to find it. :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> And how do you I'm not screwing with you guys anyway??? I could be someone you know. LOL


Seriously? You HAD to go make me look that up, huh?
What gives?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Not that I don't understand why it's done that way, but I'm not fond the idea of putting lights and power on the same circuit.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> Hey, I NEVER said anybody needs to, or should, know everything. Not even close.
> My point is someone who claims this:...should NOT need to ask this:
> 
> Even if you don't know it from memory, you'd certainly know right where to find it. :whistling2:


The reason I asked that question today. Is there is a technicality to the answer. Our county is funny because we don't deal directly with city official for inspection. We deal with a private entity " fire Underwritters " anyway. Some inspectors will ask you to use the 180 va per duplex rec. General rule of thumb I use is 8-10 rec on 15a and 10-14 rec on a 20amp. Eventually you will not be able to put as many rec as you want in a residential dwelling. The NEC IS LOOKING TO CHANGE THAT In commercial electric we always used 180va rule and seldom exceed that. 
Because If you flip back and forth thru sections there is a limit. But the AHJ can make the call if he feels you exceeded your limitations. Just wanted to get a general census what other electricians were doing


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Sal.. where do you have (2) licenses in NY??


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously? You HAD to go make me look that up, huh?
> What gives?


Also I'm never ashamed to ask a question regardless of status. " Minimize mistakes, so you can eat the steak"


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> ..........Eventually you will not be able to put as many rec as you want in a residential dwelling. The NEC IS LOOKING TO CHANGE THAT ............



According to.............?


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

480sparky said:


> According to.............?


Robert Boe!! A inspector I know from CT was at some seminar today. And, he is trying to have that changed so there is clarification.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

B4T said:


> Sal.. where do you have (2) licenses in NY??


State of CT and Westchester County


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Robert Boe!! A inspector I know from CT was at some seminar today. And, he is trying to have that changed so there is clarification.



Him and thousands of others who will submit proposals. 99% of 'em never make it.

Clarification of what? That's there's no limit in resi?

Perhaps you can ask him for the substantiation he'll present and post it here.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

raider1 said:


> If the home owner is to install a small wall A/C unit then they must comply with 440.62.
> 
> Chris


 see 440.62(C) this does not limit the number of additional outlets but limits the branch circuit rating.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Robert Boe!! A inspector I know from CT was at some seminar today. And, he is trying to have that changed so there is clarification.


 whats not clear?Because of the required spacing of outlets in a dwelling many never will be used but in commercial most outlets are installed to be task specific.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Also I'm never ashamed to ask a question regardless of status. " Minimize mistakes, so you can eat the steak"


No, I meant what gives with the name?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Mr Rewire said:


> see 440.62(C) this does not limit the number of additional outlets but limits the branch circuit rating.


I don't think Chris was saying it limited the number of receptacles. He is saying if the room a/c was more than 50% of the circuit ampacity then it would need to be on an individual circuit.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> I just go by the load calculations in ARTICLE 220..:thumbsup:


Harry, how do you lay out recepts in the dwellings you wire?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> I know there is no limit on the number of receptacles but it seems I recall a circuit can't run over 500 sq ft(resi)? :blink: It could be a local code IDK.....:blink:


One GP branch circuit per 500sqft ish. So, if I know it's 2500sqft, five, including the first smokey. Unless it's changed in the past two code cycles?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Not that I don't understand why it's done that way, but I'm not fond the idea of putting lights and power on the same circuit.


Only in a kitchen, dining room, bathroom, laundry, and garage. Everywhere else is fair game!


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

> I don't think so...I've met with a few people here in the forum Chris being one of them. Chris's credentials are intact and solid, as is his reasoning.





> Now about that master's license you possess...inquiring mind's want to know??? Especially when your new here in these here parts....
> 
> It's not that you we won't help you, but we have questions too....





> Yes, I hold a Masters electricians in the state of Ct and Westchester county , NY doesn't have a state license





> Would you like my ID number?


Has nothing to do with the time of day. There is thousands of years of knowledge here, how you ask, often warrant’s how the answer is given. You have to give, as well as one gets. 

You should see some of the things I’ve posted, and will post in the future, and gets deserved commentary…learning process can be tough at times…but it’s all good in the end, and can save you lots of face (and money) at work, especially with what can be gleaned here at times!


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## Fiki (Sep 28, 2010)

Kitchens require 2 seperate 20 amp appliance circuits, I know that one for sure. I also remember hearing in class that the dining room lighting must be seperate from the kitches lighting. 

I was also thumbing through the 2011 NEC and noticed they added more GFCIs and AFCIs in practially every room. If it isn't GFCI protected its AFCI protected. Anyone else see that? This might be old news.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Fiki said:


> Kitchens require 2 seperate 20 amp appliance circuits, I know that one for sure. *I also remember hearing in class that the dining room lighting must be seperate from the kitches lighting*.
> 
> I was also thumbing through the 2011 NEC and noticed they added more GFCIs and AFCIs in practially every room. If it isn't GFCI protected its AFCI protected. Anyone else see that? This might be old news.


Code reference to that please? Save yourself, you won't find that one in the NEC...Whoever told you, ask them to show you where that is in the code book...then listen for crickets chirping in the background


See 210.11.

Edit - they may have been confused by 210.23


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> see 440.62(C) this does not limit the number of additional outlets but limits the branch circuit rating.


That was not what I was saying when I posted 440.62.



Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't think Chris was saying it limited the number of receptacles. He is saying if the room a/c was more than 50% of the circuit ampacity then it would need to be on an individual circuit.


That is exactly what I meant.

Most through the wall A/C units I have seen draw way more than 7.5 amps so you could not just plug it in a receptacle on a 15 amp general purpose receptacle circuit

Chris


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