# Are you RRP certified?



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Just curious.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Yes, I am. I got it early last year when it looked like we were coming up on a serious deadline. It got substantially delayed. I'm not sure if those laws are actually in effect now yet or not. I had basically the same training and certification 6 or 8 years ago when I started to do HUD work. The old HUD lead safe work practices rules are almost word for word the same as the RRP rules the EPA adopted.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

What is rrp?

~Matt


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> What is rrp?
> 
> ~Matt



Taxation without representation.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Taxation without representation.


Ahh.. like CA electrical certifications... just income for the state. Maybe if it actually MEANT something people would be more inclined to get certified.

~Matt


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Ahh.. like CA electrical certifications... just income for the state. Maybe if it actually MEANT something people would be more inclined to get certified.
> 
> ~Matt


It's federal and it actually does mean something.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> It's federal and it actually does mean something.


well better get the federalies after me....


~Matt


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

The EPA another out of control Government agency that should be disbanded..
It no longer serves any popose other than to drive the cost of living up and further erode the middle class spending power.:no:


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## Jbird66 (Oct 26, 2010)

RRP=Renovation, Repair and Painting.

It is the new mandate on working in any house that was built before 1978 because they have the possibility of having lead based paint in them.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Like the rule or not, it is law you are required to follow. I follow it just as I follow licensing insurance and for the most, part code rules.

You guys would are always here bitching to no end about trunk slammers working with disregard to the things I mentioned above. Ignoring RRP makes you no different than them.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Yea but you only need it if your cutting up more then 6 sq feet per room. 

Chances are that if your doing that much cutting there will be a GC there who should have it. 

I say let the GC worry about it.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Yea but you only need it if your cutting up more then 6 sq feet per room.
> 
> Chances are that if your doing that much cutting there will be a GC there who should have it.
> 
> I say let the GC worry about it.


Everybody on the job has to be certified.

I am amazed at the blatant disregard shown by people towards this. The risk you are taking is beyond huge.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Like the rule or not, it is law you are required to follow. I follow it just as I follow licensing insurance and for the most, part code rules.
> 
> You guys would are always here bitching to no end about trunk slammers working with disregard to the things I mentioned above. Ignoring RRP makes you no different than them.


 
Come on electricmanscott . We are Electricians not painters .

They have not used lead paint for 35 years, And now its an urgent problem

This is where the EPA's logic has gone way off and thats why they should be disbanded . wear is all the plastic we are wasting suposed to go ?

Our time would be better spent on OSHA AND PPE AND NEC Classes.

The EPA is an out of control agency that is no longer out to protect the Envirment there sole purpose today is to make commerce in the United states too expensive for ordinary folks .

Thankfully the new congress will repeal all this crap:thumbsup:


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## Jbird66 (Oct 26, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Thankfully the new congress will repeal all this crap:thumbsup:


We can only hope they get to it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Everybody on the job has to be certified.
> 
> I am amazed at the blatant disregard shown by people towards this. The risk you are taking is beyond huge.


This is a law that we should all ignore .In fact we have a right to ,that is what the US constitution is for


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> Everybody on the job has to be certified.
> 
> I am amazed at the blatant disregard shown by people towards this. The risk you are taking is beyond huge.


 
Sorry but that question was asked at the class a GC that I work for took for his cert. The answer was that the GC is responsible. NOT EVERYONE.

When we file permits here they just verify that the GC has the cert. They don't ask for plumbers,electricians,etc etc .

So we don't need it. Sorry if you wasted the money and the time to get it but you don't need it.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Sorry but that question was asked at the class a GC that I work for took for his cert. The answer was that the GC is responsible. NOT EVERYONE.
> 
> When we file permits here they just verify that the GC has the cert. They don't ask for plumbers,electricians,etc etc .
> 
> So we don't need it. Sorry if you wasted the money and the time to get it but you don't need it.




If you put in a lot of recess lighting you could easily disturb more than 6 sq ft. I was also told the GC and his employees doing the demo had to be certified but the subs not. The GC also has to get a separate lead abatement permit.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> If you put in a lot of recess lighting you could easily disturb more than 6 sq ft. I was also told the GC and his employees doing the demo had to be certified but the subs not. The GC also has to get a separate lead abatement permit.


6 square feet = 864 square inches
6" downlight = aprox 28.26 square inches

That's around 30 downlights in one room. And you're only disturbing the circumference (perimeter), so your fine.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> 6 square feet = 864 square inches
> 6" downlight = aprox 28.26 square inches
> 
> That's around 30 downlights in one room. And you're only disturbing the circumference (perimeter), so your fine.


Did you actually attend the class? I did. The total sq in area of removed material is the number to use, not the circumference of the actual cut. And every firm is responsible to become certified if they work on HUD or houses built before 1975 that have lead in the paint. If your making cutouts for recess lights that area counts toward the 6. If you cut the circle and then replace the material, like cutting an access hole, then the area of the cut line is what counts, but like all stupid rules the incompetent government writes, you have to put the exact lead contaminated cut out piece back where you found it in order for it to be classified a repair job.

Here is the best part. I used to rewire old houses by the dozens. I used all the wrong by their standards methods to do my work. So after the class I decided to get my blood tested since I must must have contaminated myself due to how extremely easy that is according to the stories the environmental pussies association. The unnaceptable amount of lead in somebody's blood is something like 10 parts per billion according to the agency. Mine was less than 4 per billion. My doctor told me for all practical purposes "I am lead free" . Now I know. The epa is filling our heads with more untrue bs, and yes it is only about the money.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Sorry but that question was asked at the class a GC that I work for took for his cert. The answer was that the GC is responsible. NOT EVERYONE.
> 
> When we file permits here they just verify that the GC has the cert. They don't ask for plumbers,electricians,etc etc .
> 
> So we don't need it. Sorry if you wasted the money and the time to get it but you don't need it.


Well there you go. You heard from a guy who heard from a guy. I'm convinced. :yes:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)




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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Everybody on the job has to be certified.
> 
> I am amazed at the blatant disregard shown by people towards this. The risk you are taking is beyond huge.



Where do you find this requirement that everybody on the job is to be certified?

In MA:

From what I can find only the Certified Supervisor needs to be certified and provide OTJ training.

Also if there is 6sq ft or less per room these requirements do not apply at all.

Tom:huh:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I agree. Everyone does not need certified.... only the person in charge of the job does. What's up in the air is whether that person needs to be bodily present while the work is being performed.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

I felt like to me it was more of a liability to get it if I don't plan on making more than the 6sq ft of holes. I never checked with my Insurance agent but I assume it's more money to add it as a rider to my existing Liability policy.

Maybe I'm wrong but spending 375 bucks for something that lasts 5 years is nuts unless You plan on doing major sized jobs without a GC who is Certified. That 375 doesn't include the training class either, IIRC they are a few hundred as well.

Tom


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

davis9 said:


> I felt like to me it was more of a liability to get it if I don't plan on making more than the 6sq ft of holes. I never checked with my Insurance agent but I assume it's more money to add it as a rider to my existing Liability policy.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong but spending 375 bucks for something that lasts 5 years is nuts unless You plan on doing major sized jobs without a GC who is Certified. That 375 doesn't include the training class either, IIRC they are a few hundred as well.
> 
> Tom


shop around

If you do get an attractive and profitable remodel job, you'll never be able to find a class in quick enough time to compliantly do the job. Plus, this applies to commercial too if it's a location ever visited by children. Restaurant, mall, store, dr office, etc.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

I agree on the class being able to shop around for that but the 375(5yrs) is the State of MA fee. 

I wonder if I can hire a GC as a Sub that has the license for a job?

Tom


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

davis9 said:


> I agree on the class being able to shop around for that but the 375(5yrs) is the State of MA fee.
> 
> I wonder if I can hire a GC as a Sub that has the license for a job?
> 
> Tom


yes, you can.

You can hire any RRP certified person you want to cut your holes. Doesn't need to be a GC even.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> 6 square feet = 864 square inches
> 6" downlight = aprox 28.26 square inches
> 
> That's around 30 downlights in one room. And you're only disturbing the circumference (perimeter), so your fine.




You don't do much remodel do ya?:blink:

Most 2 story houses require you to cut a trench or holes to run your wire on the first floor. Easily more than 6 sq ft in a large house.


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## Jbird66 (Oct 26, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> You don't do much remodel do ya?:blink:
> 
> Most 2 story houses require you to cut a trench or holes to run your wire on the first floor. Easily more than 6 sq ft in a large house.


Our instructor taught us it was 6 sq ft per room. I am going to have to find my information and reread it tonight. Unless somebody else can clarify.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> You don't do much remodel do ya?:blink:
> 
> Most 2 story houses require you to cut a trench or holes to run your wire on the first floor. Easily more than 6 sq ft in a large house.


Nope. But I have done a handfull. The most holes I left in a standard 12x12 room on the 1st floor is 4. That include the horizontal and vertical cuts needed to get from the ceiling down the wall. I guess I was lucky.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> Nope. But I have done a handfull. The most holes I left in a standard 12x12 room on the 1st floor is 4. That include the horizontal and vertical cuts needed to get from the ceiling down the wall. I guess I was lucky.




No I bet you were talking a normal size middle class house. We do mainly large high end remodels where even the dogs room is bigger than 12x12.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> No I bet you were talking a normal size middle class house. We do mainly large high end remodels where even the dogs room is bigger than 12x12.


Typically large high end homes are newer around here. If the homes are 35 years old, usually it is completely gutted to obtain a better floor plan. Just my area, I guess.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> No I bet you were talking a normal size middle class house. We do mainly large high end remodels where even the dogs room is bigger than 12x12.


A flat screen TV and a well stocked frig...:laughing::laughing:


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## Mike S. (Jan 18, 2011)

Having the certification isn't the big deal, being in compliance with the regulations is. Do you know how much a real hepa vacuum costs? Do you know how much time it takes to properly setup the plastic barriers to remove the material, bring it out of the house, and properly dispose of it? 

I know carpenters who have to effectively double their labor costs for each window they replace because of the setup involved.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> Typically large high end homes are newer around here. If the homes are 35 years old, usually it is completely gutted to obtain a better floor plan. Just my area, I guess.




Most of these houses are under 5000 Sq ft. On the side of town to be. Built in the 60 and 70's. A few were bought for a measly million and torn down so a new one could be built. Most choose to spend 500 to a million remodeling them. They may add a room or two.
We are doing one now the guy just paid 2.3 million for and is spending 500k updating stuff.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> No I bet you were talking a normal size middle class house. We do mainly large high end remodels where even the dogs room is bigger than 12x12.


 
All I do pretty much is high end renovations.

On EVERY single one of them the GC was incharge of the sheetrock. All except a few small holes here or there is cut out by one of the GC's guys. 

Most of the times all the drywall comes down otherwise the place looks like swiss cheese and it is much cheaper and a better job to replace then repair large cuts of drywall.

With that being said, there is no reason to get this RRP bull**** unless your a GC or a Demolition company.

This thread is dildos :laughing:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> All I do pretty much is high end renovations.
> 
> On EVERY single one of them the GC was incharge of the sheetrock. All except a few small holes here or there is cut out by one of the GC's guys.
> 
> ...



We do about half commercial and half high end resi remodel. 75% of our work involves no GC now. Maybe 10% of those jobs without a GC would meet the 6sq ft rule. That said I don't know what we are going to do about it. We have 3 big remodels going on now for a GC and no lead abatement permit has been pulled. Way more than 6 sq ft being disturbed. Early 70's houses. I have not heard a word about anyone checking. I'm concerned enough about it to start asking the county some questions.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> A flat screen TV and a well stocked frig...:laughing::laughing:




And a wet bar....:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> And a wet bar....:laughing:


 Now were talking :drink: :laughing::laughing:


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