# Bending a Sheperd's cane?



## k2x (May 20, 2008)

I've been practicing most of my bends but the one i can't find instruction on is the "Sheperd's cane". I see them around so i feel like i need to know it. Thanks for the help.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I've never seen instructions on how to bend one. AFAIK, you just bend a 90, move the bender up a bit to make it 110 or 120, then move it up more and rotate the pipe to bend a 20 or 30 the opposite direction.

I've bent plenty just by eyeballing. I've also heard them called shepherds' hooks, Old-Man Canes and Bo-Peeps.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm with 480 on this one. It is more of an eyeball thing than anything I have seen in a book.


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

What's it for? Herding robotic sheep:laughing: :whistling2:

Sorry, couldn't resist it. Baaaaaarmy, I know:jester: It's been a long and boring day


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Use an LB. it looks more professionial,and dosen't eat up your bending degrees.


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## k2x (May 20, 2008)

OK, Thanks, i just bent 3 and the third one looked pretty good.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Use an LB. it looks more professionial,and dosen't eat up your bending degrees.


Sometimes, that's impractical when it comes to pulling wires in.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Use an LB. it looks more professionial,and dosen't eat up your bending degrees.


in a lot of installs, you don't realy want the LB there, or at least the boss doesn;t want the LB there. The last big project I was on would have used hundreds, if not thousands of LB's for this application.

One of the biggest uses for this for me is where somebody brought a stub up straight out of a wall and you need to get back to the wall to set a box.

Basically, it is a 90 followed very closely by an offset. When they are real close, it becomes one continual bend.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Use an LB. it looks more professionial,and dosen't eat up your bending degrees.


just chews up time pulling wire...


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

If you can't get to the LB then a "gooseneck" is a very handy bend to know. I don't use or see this bend very often but if you can't get access to an LB or a box later on then what are you supposed to do?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Gooseneck! Yes, thats what we called them. They were mainly used to stub down on slabs so the pipe would be perfectly straight below.
We actually prefabed goosenecks as we knew exactly how many we needed for each floor.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Just bend a 90 with an offset. :whistling2: That will work also, Lb's are expensive!


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

The 90 with an offset actually looks a lot better than the full out gooseneck. We had an apprentice that liked to start in the middle of a pipe run and work his way out on both sides :wallbash: when he realized his conduit was too close to the box to 90 into the side of it...he used a gooseneck on both sides. Try getting a fishtape through that!


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## calimurray (Apr 29, 2007)

We use goose necks up in the rafters to pipe cans in so you can nail strap the pipe to the joists we also use them when your pipe is close to a stud and has to go through that stud it is easier to pull the wire then using a short radius.


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## nvelectric (May 7, 2012)

*Shepherds hook*

Does anyone have a 855 dx bender that could send me the bend for a Shepherds hook on emt 2 inch thanks


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## nvelectric (May 7, 2012)

*Help*



cdnelectrician said:


> The 90 with an offset actually looks a lot better than the full out gooseneck. We had an apprentice that liked to start in the middle of a pipe run and work his way out on both sides :wallbash: when he realized his conduit was too close to the box to 90 into the side of it...he used a gooseneck on both sides. Try getting a fishtape through that!


Does anyone have a 855 dx bender that could tell me the bends to input in the programmable bender for 2 inch shepherds hook


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## cad99 (Feb 19, 2012)

bobelectric said:


> Use an LB. it looks more professionial,and dosen't eat up your bending degrees.



Sometimes there is future accessibility to consider


Living the dream one nightmare at a time.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Bend your 90 and then your offset. Math


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## nvelectric (May 7, 2012)

Te bender is programmable math is not the issue was just wondering if anyone might have used this bender before. Thanks for the short sided insight. I plan on using 20 foot sticks of pipe so didn't really want to waste


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Uhhhh....bend past 90 degrees then flip it around and bend it back a touch?



To the OP, not the 2" guy. ^


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

nvelectric said:


> Does anyone have a 855 dx bender that could send me the bend for a Shepherds hook on emt 2 inch thanks


I have one yes. I didn't see your post before. I've used it for Shepards hooks before yes. My method is to bend the 90 first and then the offset. You won't find it in the 855 manual anywhere because it's not there. Shít man bending a shepherds hook on a sidewinder is probably 10x easier than using a hand bender regardless of size. Math


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## RMNC (Nov 14, 2013)

Goose necks are a violation of the nec. Can't bend over 90 degrees. Also, they are hard to work with and look horrible


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

RMNC said:


> Goose necks are a violation of the nec. Can't bend over 90 degrees. Also, they are hard to work with and look horrible Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


A goose neck is just a very close back to back 90. Compliant


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## RMNC (Nov 14, 2013)

Well they're still ugly and hard to work with. I've personally been shutdown by a tough guy inspector and haven't bent one since


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

RMNC said:


> Well they're still ugly and hard to work with. I've personally been shutdown by a tough guy inspector and haven't bent one since Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


 Oh yeah they suck. The only time I see them is outside when someone had to pipe out of the bottom of some 3R enclosure and go up. A shepherds hook though is a different thing in my vernacular and they are necessary sometimes


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

A lot of guys don't like them because they're different and that's not how they'd do it. I worked on a job where I put one near a high ceiling instead of doing back-to-back boxes which would be harder to pull through. 

The owner of the company actually thought it was necessary to pay a guy to go behind me and remove the wires from the pipe, and replace the shepard's crook with a back-to-back box.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I use them to wrap columns


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

The debate has been beat to death... I'm of the opinion that no single run of conduit can have more than an additive 360 degree of bend.

Some argue that a single bend cannot exceed 90 degree.

Pete


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> I use them to wrap columns
> 
> 
> View attachment 39394


Is that EMT? I don't like it that close to the ground. :no:


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

They eat up degrees fast and are a pain to pull when they are short. Move the offset as far away from the 90 as you can. Only put them next to each other if you absolutely have to. Fish tapes don't like doing tight bends. Especially steel ones.

Most hand benders won't go over 90 degrees without damaging the pipe. 555s don't come with 180 degree shoes anymore.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Why would one need such a configuration? Just saying.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Is that EMT? I don't like it that close to the ground. :no:


It's on the ground between two gravity conveyors that aren't there in the picture yet. It's completely safe I promise


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I make shepherds hooks now and then. They have their place..


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

meadow said:


> Why would one need such a configuration? Just saying.



Going up an exterior wall to the top and turning 90 degrees in the direction of the wall. The conduit will hit the top corner of the wall at the inside of the bend.




> Goose necks are a violation of the nec. Can't bend over 90 degrees. Also, they are hard to work with and look horrible


2 out of 3 :thumbup:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

meadow said:


> Why would one need such a configuration? Just saying.


A buried box in a concrete corner that recessed at a 45 deg angle. ie: old FA horn or hallway light that has a back entrance only. 
Stick an extension ring on it and hook into it.


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

meadow said:


> Why would one need such a configuration? Just saying.


Maybe the OP will come back and tell us how many he has used in the six years since he started this thread!:whistling2:


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## Stickshaker (Jun 29, 2012)

I was thinking of the bend to clear the roof of a grain bin. More art than math.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

Joefixit2 said:


> Maybe the OP will come back and tell us how many he has used in the six years since he started this thread!:whistling2:


Why do you have to ruin a good argument?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

nvelectric said:


> Te bender is programmable math is not the issue was just wondering if anyone might have used this bender before. Thanks for the short sided insight. I plan on using 20 foot sticks of pipe so didn't really want to waste


Practice on a 5' piece and post the data. You will be famous here.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

Are those 20' sticks of EMT?

Patrick



ponyboy said:


> I use them to wrap columns
> 
> 
> View attachment 39394


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

meadow said:


> Why would one need such a configuration? Just saying.



I've installed most of mine where putting in an LB would make it very expensive and very inconvenient to pull the wires in later.

There's probably 25 or 30 of 'em in the ceiling of this place:


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Pete m. said:


> The debate has been beat to death... I'm of the opinion that no single run of conduit can have more than an additive 360 degree of bend.
> 
> Some argue that a single bend cannot exceed 90 degree.
> 
> Pete


Does the NEC actually say "no bend greater than 90 degrees?"
Canadian code says "shall not have more than the equivalent of four 90 degree bends"
I read that as legal in Canada.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The general language is:

_*(3xx.26) Bends - Number in One Run. *There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes._

So you're not limited to 90° for a bend. And even if you were, you could merely have ¼" of 'straight' pipe and you could start another bend.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

480sparky said:


> The general language is:
> 
> _*(3xx.26) Bends - Number in One Run. *There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes._
> 
> So you're not limited to 90° for a bend. And even if you were, you could merely have ¼" of 'straight' pipe and you could start another bend.


I am fairly sure it is limited to 90 degrees in one bend. I will try to find it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jhellwig said:


> I am fairly sure it is limited to 90 degrees in one bend. I will try to find it.



You may find a _minimum radius_ for raceways, but I don't think you'll find a 90° limit. If there were such a limit, it would be easy to find for flexible raceways like ENT and seal-tight.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

480sparky said:


> You may find a _minimum radius_ for raceways, but I don't think you'll find a 90° limit. If there were such a limit, it would be easy to find for flexible raceways like ENT and seal-tight.


Yeah I am not finding anything. Must have just been the way I was taught. I would still avoid more than a 90 though.


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## RMNC (Nov 14, 2013)

It states it somewhere. I'll find it when I get home


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

RMNC said:


> Goose necks are a violation of the nec. Can't bend over 90 degrees. Also, they are hard to work with and look horrible


Thats news to me. been using goosenecks for almost 40 years with zero issue with pulling wire or silly inspectors.



RMNC said:


> Well they're still ugly and hard to work with. I've personally been shutdown by a tough guy inspector and haven't bent one since


Did you ask where in the code book this not allowed?



meadow said:


> Why would one need such a configuration? Just saying.


Lets say your running conduit on a deck, on top of rebar. You need to go straight down to hit a switch below. 
Think of every single time you use an LB. A gooseneck elininates the need for an LB. Looks funny so its better if buried.

I over pull the 90, then pull it back up until its straight. No offset.



RMNC said:


> It states it somewhere. I'll find it when I get home


Find it yet? I am curious about something that has been employed for many, many years.


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## RMNC (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm gone for the weekend so it won't be anytime soon. I've been wrong before but I remember debating it about 5 years ago when I got failed for doing it. The job super told us not bend them anymore and cited the code reference. But again, I've been wrong before.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Another urban myth electrical code.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

RMNC said:


> I'm gone for the weekend so it won't be anytime soon. I've been wrong before but I remember debating it about 5 years ago when I got failed for doing it. The job super told us not bend them anymore and cited the code reference. But again, I've been wrong before.


I am not saying your wrong.
All I am saying is its something most of us have done before with no issues.

IMO, its no different than an offsett. If the inspector wants to count the gooseneck bends different from a 90, have at it.
I can't think of any instance where I used a gooseneck in a run of many bends.
It was almost exclusively used from a ceiling box to penetrate a slab ceiling to get to a switch box directly below.
Just a handy way to allow the conduit to go down straight through the slab into the switch box.
In that case, the gooseneck is the only bend in the run.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The NEC doesn't disallow them.

Job specs, however, are a different story.

Job specs are not the same as the NC.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

I've seen a lot of those bends, used on the old service installations of the 20's and 30's. The old two wire, 30 amp 120 volt services. They used the old black painted 3/4 rigid, that had to be bent with the old-fashioned hickey. They did it to avoid, having to use a LB. They only had to pull two #10 RH wires through it. We have to admit it, those old timers were really highly skilled in their trade.  :thumbsup:


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

Goosenecks. Love bending them
A little artistic ability goes a long way.
Get some half inch emt and practice up.
Easy.


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