# Vanity light in bathroom, slave of of G.F.C.I.?



## God man (Oct 15, 2010)

Ran into a bathroom with bad G.F.I., found out that the vanity light was slaved off of the g.f.i. when I replaced the g.f.i. I put vanity light on line side of g.f.i.. I did not like the fact that if the fig trips you are in the dark. How do you all wire your vanity lights, gfi protected or no?


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## Julius793 (Nov 29, 2011)

God man said:


> Ran into a bathroom with bad G.F.I., found out that the vanity light was slaved off of the g.f.i. when I replaced the g.f.i. I put vanity light on line side of g.f.i.. I did not like the fact that if the fig trips you are in the dark. How do you all wire your vanity lights, gfi protected or no?


You never wana be left in the dark so i always wire them line side


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

The bath circuit cannot be used for the lighting circuit unless that is the only bathroom in the house.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The bath circuit cannot be used for the lighting circuit unless that is the only bathroom in the house.



You mean the required bathroom circuit can't leave that bathroom if you put the lights etc on it.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Bulldog1 said:


> You mean the required bathroom circuit can't leave that bathroom if you put the lights etc on it.


 
*(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits.​*​​​​In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
have no other outlets.​
*​*​​​​​
_Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance​with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2)



When it says single bathroom I've always taken that to mean, if there's more than one bathroom, the 20 amp circuit cannot be used for lighting. But, I can plainly see how it can be interpreted to be used exactly how you read it.
_


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> *(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits.​*In addition to the number
> of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
> least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
> supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
> ...



It is very common to see multiple bathroom circuits here. I don't normally do it but I have.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The bath circuit cannot be used for the lighting circuit unless that is the only bathroom in the house.


 Unless the bathroom was wired before the newer codes.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*quit*



Bulldog1 said:


> It is very common to see multiple bathroom circuits here. I don't normally do it but I have.


you need to quit doing that. i've never done it. Always keep them separate


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

See it may times and changed it many times in older homes. My reasoning is unless it is one of the old type vanity light with an outlet and the customer isn't changing to a light without it I could imagine the HO or tenant drops something plugged into the outlet in the sink and tries to pull it out I could imagine someone almost having a heat attack when the light in the bathroom goes out when the GFCI trips. Not to mention someone could hurt themselves by falling in the dark.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Cletis said:


> you need to quit doing that. i've never done it. Always keep them separate



:laughing:


Ok I promise not to do that anymore. :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> The bath circuit cannot be used for the lighting circuit unless that is the only bathroom in the house.


Not true. 

If I have 6 bathrooms, I can run (1) 20 amp circuits to each and use the circuit for lighting and for the required receptacle within 36" of the basin.

I can also run (1) 20 amp circuit and hit each of the bathroom receptacles but that's a bad design and an overloaded circuit waiting to happen. I usually run (1) 20 amp circuit to each of the bathrooms and use a 15 amp circuit to pick up the lighting.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Ticket*



Magnettica said:


> Not true.
> 
> If I have 6 bathrooms, I can run (1) 20 amp circuits to each and use the circuit for lighting and for the required receptacle within 36" of the basin.
> 
> I can also run (1) 20 amp circuit and hit each of the bathroom receptacles but that's a bad design and an overloaded circuit waiting to happen. *I usually run (1) 20 amp circuit to each of the bathrooms and use a 15 amp circuit to pick up the lighting*.


That's the best design in my opinion too :thumbup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Not true.
> 
> If I have 6 bathrooms, I can run (1) 20 amp circuits to each and use the circuit for lighting and for the required receptacle within 36" of the basin.
> 
> .


 
You mean on one circuit? or a circuit for each?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You mean on one circuit? or a circuit for each?


a circuit for _'each' _would accomodate _'other equipment'_

~CS~


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## Sky Seattle (Jul 5, 2011)

*Necessary sometimes*

The manufacturers instructions sometimes state the fixture (or fan) must be GFCI protected. (I know, I hate having to read it) You may want to run another GFCI to a bathroom, I generally do not. 

If a circuit feeds more than the required receptacle in the bathroom, it cannot leave that bathroom, if it only feeds the required receptacle adjacent to the basin, then it can go to other bathrooms. When the fan and or light fixture requires GFCI protection, it is load side of GFCI for me.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Not true.
> 
> If I have 6 bathrooms, I can run (1) 20 amp circuits to each and use the circuit for lighting and for the required receptacle within 36" of the basin.
> 
> .........




*201.11(C)(3)* Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
have no other outlets.

_Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance
with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2)._


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## Sky Seattle (Jul 5, 2011)

*Same thing*



480sparky said:


> *201.11(C)(3)* Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
> of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
> least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
> supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
> ...


This and Magnetta are both saying the same thing


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Sky Seattle said:


> This and Magnetta are both saying the same thing



I just added the quote to his statement.


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## mnelectrician (Dec 1, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Not true.
> 
> If I have 6 bathrooms, I can run (1) 20 amp circuits to each and use the circuit for lighting and for the required receptacle within 36" of the basin.
> 
> I can also run (1) 20 amp circuit and hit each of the bathroom receptacles but that's a bad design and an overloaded circuit waiting to happen. I usually run (1) 20 amp circuit to each of the bathrooms and use a 15 amp circuit to pick up the lighting.


Can always combine some of the 20 amp bathroom ckt.s in the panel if you're running low on panel space. Running seperate ckt.s like you were saying you're covered for anything. Especially with a bunch of women running hair dryers and what not.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

SOo..................Putting the vanity and fan on the Bath room circuit does not go against code as long as this circuit only feeds one bathroom, right? Does this mean that when a bath fan requires GFI protection from the maufacture that you would have to put a GFI breaker on the lighting circuit that feeds it because the bathroom circuit would not be acceptable to use if it feeds other bathrooms?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MHElectric said:


> SOo..................Putting the vanity and fan on the Bath room circuit does not go against code as long as this circuit only feeds one bathroom, right? Does this mean that when a bath fan requires GFI protection from the maufacture that you would have to put a GFI breaker on the lighting circuit that feeds it because the bathroom circuit would not be acceptable to use if it feeds other bathrooms?


No, because the lighting circuit is not part of the bath circuit that requires a receptacle.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> No, because the lighting circuit is not part of the bath circuit that requires a receptacle.


 So if the fan manufacture is requiring GFI protection (and I am just asking cause I saw someone else write that) could you tie it onto the bathroom circuit or would you have to provide some other form of GFI protection?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MHElectric said:


> So if the fan manufacture is requiring GFI protection (and I am just asking cause I saw someone else write that) could you tie it onto the bathroom circuit or would you have to provide some other form of GFI protection?


IF that bathroom is the ONLY one on that bath circuit, yes, you could come off the GFCI in that bathroom.

*201.11(C)(3)* Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
have no other outlets.

_Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance
with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).


_If the bath circuit goes to another bathroom, then no... you need to find another way to GFCI-protect it. You could put a GFCI breaker on the lighting circuit... or find a general circuit and put a faceless GFCI in to protect it.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> IF that bathroom is the ONLY one on that bath circuit, yes, you could come off the GFCI in that bathroom.
> 
> *201.11(C)(3)* Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
> of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
> ...


 OK. The way its written has thrown me off gaurd, because I wasnt considering the vanity or the fan an "outlet". And of course many older homes have this type of bathroom wiring set up. But thanks, that answers my question.:thumbsup:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> OK. The way its written has thrown me off gaurd, because I wasnt considering the vanity or the fan an "outlet". And of course many older homes have this type of bathroom wiring set up. But thanks, that answers my question.:thumbsup:



There are lighting outlets , power outlets etc. Read the definition in art. 100


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MHElectric said:


> OK. The way its written has thrown me off gaurd, because I wasnt considering the vanity or the fan an "outlet". And of course many older homes have this type of bathroom wiring set up. But thanks, that answers my question.:thumbsup:



Fans & lights _are _outlets. But they are not _receptacle_ outlets.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Got it.


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## Knauer (Jun 6, 2011)

Alot of the time for houses with 4 or less bathrooms we will pull 2 20 circuits for bath gfcis and also pull a gfci circuit across the house on a 20a gfci breaker for anything else ie bath fans shower cans and the role lighting we put in tray/coffered ceilings ( mfg requires gfi for the rope lights we use) works well for a ranch a bit of a pain when it's 2 stories, but most of the two stories I've done for new con were 5000+ sqft


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## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

I usually pull 1 x 20 amp circuit for the master bath receptacle , and 1 x 20 amp for the others bath , and the light on separate circuit with a gfci protection install under the entry bath switch or elsewhere for each bathroom .


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*topic*

Since were on this topic. I picked up like 70 deadfront gfci a few years ago for 0.50 a piece from HD. I'd like to clear out the rest. Can I put a deadfront gfci on side of panel to protect 4 bathrooms? I'm thinking yes. 

Secondly, lets says someone creates a ground fault by sticking in fork in the 2nd floor gfci in master bed, would the distance of the deadfront to their receptacle (say 85ft) cause too much of a delay in their being shocked as so to hurt them. 

I know it would delayed milliseconds probably. I had a chart but lost it on distance to overcurrent protection and time of shut off. ??


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Since were on this topic. I picked up like 70 deadfront gfci a few years ago for 0.50 a piece from HD. I'd like to clear out the rest. Can I put a deadfront gfci on side of panel to protect 4 bathrooms? I'm thinking yes.





You can do anything you want to.



Cletis said:


> Secondly, lets says someone creates a ground fault by sticking in fork in the 2nd floor gfci in master bed, would the distance of the deadfront to their receptacle (say 85ft) cause too much of a delay in their being shocked as so to hurt them.



Two words for you.........TAMPER.....RESISTANT....... :whistling2:





Cletis said:


> I know it would delayed milliseconds probably. I had a chart but lost it on distance to overcurrent protection and time of shut off. ??



The excessive distance would cause the deadfront gfi to explode (if it was wired in #2 SER it would be ok) if you did that....


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

french connection!! said:


> .... and the light on separate circuit with a gfci protection install under the entry bath switch or elsewhere for each bathroom .


Why?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Since were on this topic. I picked up like 70 deadfront gfci a few years ago for 0.50 a piece from HD. I'd like to clear out the rest. Can I put a deadfront gfci on side of panel to protect 4 bathrooms? I'm thinking yes. .....


Yes.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*ex*

I've just noticed from experience when I flip a breaker and it blows, I have a general rule as to how long it takes to kick to where the short is. Seems like outside shorts like 125ft out in yard take a good sec or so and other closer in house kick real quick. Just general rule of thumb. I know time is of the essence in clearing a ground fault to a person so hence the question. 

POint of use gfci's would seem safer (since they react quicker)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Cletis said:


> I've just noticed from experience when I flip a breaker and it blows, I have a general rule as to how long it takes to kick to where the short is. Seems like outside shorts like 125ft out in yard take a good sec or so and other closer in house kick real quick. Just general rule of thumb. I know time is of the essence in clearing a ground fault to a person so hence the question.
> 
> POint of use gfci's would seem safer (since they react quicker)


I'm cornfused. You're saying a GFCI will open quicker if it's closer to a ground fault because circuit breakers seem to?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*"ASS"ume*

Yeah. I sort of assumed that. 

If you put on at point of use and one 500 ft away would the time to open circuit be identical ?


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## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

if the bathrooms lights are on one 15 amps or 20 amps circuit , I usually like to wire each bathroom with their own gfci protection ,which I install when possible under the switch at the same high as the others receptacles , so if something happen in that bath , gfci would trip , and all others lights part of the same circuit will still be on . I believe to be an extra safety for bathroom , why only the receptacles should be gfci in a bathroom ?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Cletis said:


> ...If you put on at point of use and one 500 ft away would the time to open circuit be identical ?


Basically, yes. 

The only difference is that on a long enough circuit, you can get enough leakage between conductors to trip a GFCI or at least make it more sensitive to load-leakage. Whereas with point-of-use GFCIs, all they ever see is real load-leakage.

-John


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

french connection!! said:


> if the bathrooms lights are on one 15 amps or 20 amps circuit , I usually like to wire each bathroom with their own gfci protection ,which I install when possible under the switch at the same high as the others receptacles , so if something happen in that bath , gfci would trip , and all others lights part of the same circuit will still be on . I believe to be an extra safety for bathroom , why only the receptacles should be gfci in a bathroom ?



Lemme see if I got this right:

You have the required 20a bath circuit, going to a receptacle. You have another 15 or 20 circuit for the lights, running through yet another GFCI receptacle?


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## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

yes but the 15 or 20 amp circuit for the light is not only for the bath light .


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*GFCI's*

Also, while were on GFCI's. Any brand gfci to use to eliminate humidity moisture tripping (mostly in garages). ?? 

Would a GFCI in a cloud trip ?? or is it supposed to ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

french connection!! said:


> yes but the 15 or 20 amp circuit for the light is not only for the bath light .


So your second GFCI is a violation.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Cletis said:


> Also, while were on GFCI's. Any brand gfci to use to eliminate humidity moisture tripping (mostly in garages)...?


 Never had that problem, but Leviton weather-resistant GFCI's say they have a conformal plastic coating on the circuitry to protect it in damp environments. Not sure if that's a requirement of all WR receptacles.

-John


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## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

why would it be a violation ? if you got a light circuit for 2 bedrooms and a bath , let say , protected by an afci breaker , what stop to me to use that circuit thru a gfci receptacle or a blank gfci also via line and load to protect the bath lights and fan only for this room ?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

french connection!! said:


> why would it be a violation ? if you got a light circuit for 2 bedrooms and a bath , let say , protected by an afci breaker , what stop to me to use that circuit thru a gfci receptacle or a blank gfci also via line and load to protect the bath lights and fan only for this room ?


 
You could, but the GFI you use to protect your lights, cannot count as the required bath circuit then.


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## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

of course it is not , like I stated , I usually pull one 20amp circuit for the master bath gfci receptacle and another 20 amps circuit for the other bathrooms gfci receptacles , but won't use them for the light .I wire the light on separate circuit .


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

french connection!! said:


> why would it be a violation ? if you got a light circuit for 2 bedrooms and a bath , let say , protected by an afci breaker , what stop to me to use that circuit thru a gfci receptacle or a blank gfci also via line and load to protect the bath lights and fan only for this room ?



If you put a GFCI recep in the bathroom (on a 15a breaker) that would be a violation of 210.11.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> If you put a GFCI recep in the bathroom (on a 15a breaker) that would be a violation of 210.11.


Some will say otherwise. Myself not among them.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Some will say otherwise. Myself not among them.


If that circuit goes to an outlet outside of the bathrooms, it's definately a violation.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> If that circuit goes to an outlet outside of the bathrooms, it's definately a violation.


I see it that way. Some see it as after you satisfy the requirement you can do whatever you want.


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## french connection!! (Dec 13, 2007)

if I already have one 20 amp dedicated gfci receptacle required in that bathroom , like for a kitchen where you need at least 2 x 20amp small appliance branch circuit , what stopping you to pull 20 x 20 amp circuit in that kitchen if you want to as long as you meet minimum code requirement .


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

french connection!! said:


> if I already have one 20 amp dedicated gfci receptacle required in that bathroom , like for a kitchen where you need at least 2 x 20amp small appliance branch circuit , what stopping you to pull 20 x 20 amp circuit in that kitchen if you want to as long as you meet minimum code requirement .



You can't take the bath circuit wherever you want.... it must either supply ONLY the recepts in the baths, or ONLY one bathroom. Same for SABCs... if you run 4 SABCs to the kitchen/DR, you can't just take one to the garage & basement & the home theater because you only are required to have 2 of them.


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