# compact conductor



## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

In the conduit fill tables, what are "compact conductors"? This may be a dumb question but I have never come across "compact conductors".


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Just like the name states. The conductors are compact. 
They do this by compressing the bundle. Ever see how all the individual strands of a larger conductor are round? This leaves many small "triangles" of air space between the strands. 
With compact conductors the strands are compressed so much that they turn trapezoidal and the air spaces are closed. This makes the whole conductor bundle much smaller with the same exact total amount of conductor cross section.
Understand?


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*Good timeing!*

I just bought some #3 the other day (thhn).

The wire is marked "AWG #3- THHN/THHW - or AWG #2 THWN--"

1st time I saw that (or noticed).


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## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

Yes I do. How common is this stuff? I have never seen it before.


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## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

THHN is always a compact conductor?


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## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

I use miles of THHN and have never noticed the strands were not round.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Most compact is aluminum, simply because it is easier (meaning softer) to form. Copper is available, but I've never seen it.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I installed some 750/3 15KV TEK cable awhile ago that was compact. 750 crimp lugs seemed awfully loose, 700's were not much better, so I used 600's. I had to pound them on with a hammer, but they crimped up nicely. 

I'm sure this was illegal, immoral, fattening, and no doubt contributed to global warming, but I'd bet the 750's would have eventually burnt up.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

olectric said:


> Yes I do. How common is this stuff? I have never seen it before.


It's actually pretty common...



olectric said:


> THHN is always a compact conductor?


No...not at all. 
Are all apples red?



olectric said:


> I use miles of THHN and have never noticed the strands were not round.


Compact conductors are generally AL....but you may find CU compact conductors as well, typically in MV cables.


Does this look familiar?








*Photo 1*



> Today, aluminum alloy building wire is generally available in sizes 8 AWG to 1,000kcmil (up to 1,500kcmil in Canada). Although not required by the 2005 National Electrical Code (NEC), aluminum alloy building wire in the United States is compact stranded and generally can be used in the same size conduit as copper. Compact stranding reduces the diameter of the conductor by about 10% (*Photo 1*).


*Installing Aluminum Building Wire*



Here is a CU version:

*A* Uncoated, Okopact (Compact Stranded) Copper Conductors 
*B* Extruded Semiconducting EPR Strand Screen 
*C* Okoguard Insulation 
*D* Okopact (Compact) Copper Grounding Conductor 
*E* Phase Identification Tape 
*F* Fillers and Binder Tape 
*G* Loxarmor 
*H* Jacket -Yellow Okoseal 




*Loxarmor*® *Type MV-90 or MC*
*2.4kV Okoguard*® *Nonshielded Power Cable*
3 Okopact® (Compact Stranded) Copper Conductors/90°C Rating
100% and 133% Insulation Level


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

AL and CU compact conductors.

The CU doesn't look all that compacted to me ....LOL.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Great images and pics guys. :thumbsup:


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

I think I have also seen it in SER cable, but I know for sure I have used it in some of the bigger sizes of aluminum. 2/0 and up that is.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Great images and pics guys. :thumbsup:


I got mad skills
It says so right over here
<<~~~


:laughing:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Celtic thanks for all the hard work you do responding to all post, keep up the good work I really enjoy your posts.


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## olectric (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks everyone. I get it now.


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

micromind said:


> I installed some 750/3 15KV TEK cable awhile ago that was compact. 750 crimp lugs seemed awfully loose, 700's were not much better, so I used 600's. I had to pound them on with a hammer, but they crimped up nicely


We used a lot of (3c)15kv PILC (paper insulated lead cable) with compact copper cable. Most of the existing cable to which we had to connect was 35+ years old (so compact conductors have been around at least that long). Our terminations were either to lugs, or tri-furcating splices to conductors of other sizes. And we encountered the same 'loose crimp' problems as you mention.

The problem was solved quite handily by purchasing a Burndy Y644M dieless, manual, hydraulic crimper, now superceeded by a Y644HS dieless. The crimp range is "#6 to 1 million CM cu, #6 to 750 MCM al. Crimper is 'range taking', which means you can put a great big lug on a little bitty conductor and still produce a 'gas tight' connection. It is a little pricey, but the payback was quick!

Also used it to terminate a miriad of goofey 600 volt 'government furnished' cables and lugs, and DLO cables with sizes such as 535mcm - all of those 'loosey' problems went away with purchase of a dieless, range taking crimper.

Disclaimer here: I have no affiliations with the Burndy Company, don't even much like 'em. 

No doubt other vendors offer a 'cheaper, faster and better' tool now, but old 644 served us well for years. And no hammers need be sacrificed during its operation . . .

Best Wishes Everyone


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## Idaho Abe (Nov 28, 2007)

*Compact Conductors*

I have seen it in copper. Works great for service conductors where the you need 200 amperes but the service mast above the meter is not 2 inch conduit.


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## Vinman (9 mo ago)

Speedy Petey said:


> Just like the name states. The conductors are compact.
> They do this by compressing the bundle. Ever see how all the individual strands of a larger conductor are round? This leaves many small "triangles" of air space between the strands.
> With compact conductors the strands are compressed so much that they turn trapezoidal and the air spaces are closed. This makes the whole conductor bundle much smaller with the same exact total amount of conductor cross section.
> Understand?


The air space can be defined as Interstices .


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

14 year old thread.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

backstay said:


> 14 year old thread.


14.4 modem?


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## Vinman (9 mo ago)

backstay said:


> 14 year old thread.


Ha long ago. I was watching a Mike Holt video ,and it referenced Interstices . I was looking for information ,and found this thread .


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

A lot of the original posters are gone now.


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