# 70E Violation -- Whom enforces it ?



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

osha, or your state osha, the onsite safety person, the base safety officer, possibly the ahj, DOT, DOE, whatever applies.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Good luck getting federal OSHA out there. 
They don't have the manpower for every complaint.


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## frankwell (Mar 22, 2012)

*Compliance*



noarcflash said:


> If the owner of an EC company is performing unsafe work practices, and having his men do hot work, when they should not be, who can this be reported to?
> 
> Let's say I'm tired of risking my life, and I feel pressured into doing hot work by management, whom can I turn to for help ?
> 
> ...


Don't worry. You're shop has signed a safety compliance statement with their legitimate customers promising they and their employees follow 70E guidelines. 
Safety is an Electricians first sense anyway. 
Go to:http://www.avotraining.com/assessment/electrical-safety/index.php
and see what you know.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

have you sat down with your boss and have a talk with him? tell him you need some safety equipment to perform these tasks properly.


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## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

I would start with your boss. You might even volunteer to work with him to start a proper safety program.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Good luck getting federal OSHA out there.
> They don't have the manpower for every complaint.



OSHA is required to answer every complaint.

Manpower is an issue of course.

What I have seen happen more than once usually goes like this...

Complaint is made to OSHA.
OSHA sends letter to contractor informing them of the complaint and nature of complaint.
Contractor is instructed to document the violation AND the remedy and submit same [usually photographic documentation] to OSHA within a very short time* frame.
Failing to respond to OSHA in a timely* fashion results in a full blown inquiry. 


[ *short time, timely, etc are determined by OSHA and are detailed on the complaint sent to contractor]


The initial complaint to OSHA is usually done anonymously.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

noarcflash said:


> If the owner of an EC company is performing unsafe work practices, and having his men do hot work, when they should not be, who can this be reported to?
> 
> Let's say I'm tired of risking my life, and I feel pressured into doing hot work by management, whom can I turn to for help ?
> 
> ...


 
safety is a no win situation, which is why it's such big biz in America

~CS~


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

noarcflash said:


> If the owner of an EC company is performing unsafe work practices, and having his men do hot work, when they should not be, who can this be reported to?
> 
> Let's say I'm tired of risking my life, and I feel pressured into doing hot work by management, whom can I turn to for help ?
> 
> ...


Your state labor board is the first place to call.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Your state labor board is the first place to call.


and tell 'em to do the job they've been paid to?



~CS~


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Celtic said:


> OSHA is required to answer every complaint.
> 
> Manpower is an issue of course.
> 
> ...


Your right, they have to answer every complaint. 
But don't wait on them to get there in time.
Staffing.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Your state labor board is the first place to call.


I think NJ's DOL is more concerned with wage and hour laws rather than personal safety.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Celtic said:


> I think NJ's DOL is more concerned with wage and hour laws rather than personal safety.


Could be it all depends on the state you live in.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Your right, they have to answer every complaint.
> But don't wait on them to get there in time.
> Staffing.



"Time" is something that is on their side..if you do not comply with their time line - they will be paying a visit or just slapping you with a fine...and it's probably not gonna be cheap....its costs more to thumb your nose at them than is does to just comply.
If you feel you are in compliance, a letter [with appropriate documentation] is still required of you.
Ignoring them can only cost you money.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Could be it all depends on the state you live in.


Could be....NJ DOL does not seem to have a hotline number ...OSHA does..24 hour line.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

If there is a state page, look for a complaint form , similar to this>

http://firesafety.vermont.gov/sites/firesafety/files/pdf/Misc Forms/Complaint form - 42012.pdf

note that it can be submitted anonymously

~CS~


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## Svtlightning207 (Apr 2, 2012)

I think of working on live panels like working on a bomb. It only takes one screw up. First you should try to remedy the situation without getting osha involved.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Could be it all depends on the state you live in.


Yes and here in MA the labor board will have you go to OSHA the labor board has to do with money and such not safety


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## Svtlightning207 (Apr 2, 2012)

in reality osha has more to do with money than safety.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Svtlightning207 said:


> in reality osha has more to do with money than safety.


Of course you don't have any facts to back that up.


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## Svtlightning207 (Apr 2, 2012)

Your right I don't. But I do know they love taking hard working peoples money . Don't get me wrong, I think alot of what they do is great, on the other hand, some of it is over kill.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Svtlightning207 said:


> ...Don't get me wrong, I think alot of what they do is great, on the other hand, some of it is over kill.


 While I don't know what examples you're thinking of, I find that often people who think OSHA is going overboard are misunderstanding one or more of OSHA's rules.

Many company safety policies are much more strict that the OSHA regs.

-John


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Of course you don't have any facts to back that up.


This fits here>

http://www.safetynewsalert.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/osha-logo.jpg


> To change that, the Web site endorses passage of the Protecting America’s Workers Act. That bill would:
> 
> allow OSHA to pursue criminal charges against a company for an employee’s death, including fines and up to 10 years in prison for owners and managers. Criminal penalties for serious bodily injury to an employee could include up to five years in prison.
> increase the civil penalty for an employee death from $50,000 to $250,000, with a minimum $25,000 fine for companies with 25 or fewer employees
> ...


~CS~


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

why the heck would I care about criminal penalties for my death ? I would be much more interested in penalties for my injuries if I lived. I'm sure if I died that my wife would be more than happy to sue the crap out of them, but I don't think at that point I would give a crap.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

wildleg said:


> ...Why the heck would I care about criminal penalties for my death...?


 It's not important that you care about it, it is important that your employer cares enough about it to make them afraid to put you in a dangerous situation.

-John


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

Before getting OSHA involved I'd speak to the EC owner first because once you involve OSHA there is no reversing that procedure easily. You also don't want to put your company out of work either. Next if your talking about large industrial work 90% of large companies that your doing work for have contractor safety requirements, maybe inquire with them then present that to your boss. I'm sure if it means he could lose his business with that account that would get the ball rolling for sure. Most industrial companies would freak out if they knew unprotected hot work was being preformed for two reasons; one if someone got injured or killed they'd have a lawsuit on their hands. Second, loss of production, product, or investment, they can lose money hand over fist for every minute they are down.
Again I would try those options first before getting OSHA involved. Just my opinion.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

TimChaput69 said:


> Before getting OSHA involved I'd speak to the EC owner first .....


I would advise against doing that...





TimChaput69 said:


> ......because once you involve OSHA there is no reversing that procedure easily.


Speaking to the owner first will more than likely result in a trip to the unemployment line.

The reason for your termination [if one is even given] would be "Workforce Reduction" or a "Lack of Work". No where will there ever be a mention of your "good intention".

OSHA is there for a reason...use them....let them be the lightning rod.....keep yourself employed.





TimChaput69 said:


> You also don't want to put your company out of work either.


Why would the company go out of business?
OSHA will give the contractor a chance to remedy the situation w/o penalty...failing to remedy the situation results in fines...which can be appealed...usually for a substantially lower amount.




TimChaput69 said:


> Next if your talking about large industrial work 90% of large companies that your doing work for have contractor safety requirements, maybe inquire with them then present that to your boss. I'm sure if it means he could lose his business with that account that would get the ball rolling for sure. Most industrial companies would freak out if they knew unprotected hot work was being preformed for two reasons; one if someone got injured or killed they'd have a lawsuit on their hands. Second, loss of production, product, or investment, they can lose money hand over fist for every minute they are down.
> Again I would try those options first before getting OSHA involved. Just my opinion.


The "Safety Dept." of large industrial companies are not there to protect the EMPLOYEE...they are there to protect the EMPLOYER from the EMPLOYEE.


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

I guess it all depends on the EC owner as far as talking to him first. Every EC I've worked for was very approachable and would listen to non petty complaints. 
As far as large industrial companies my thought was is you can't persuade him by talking to him present him with the safety protocols at the places your doing the work at. I work at a GE facility and if a contractor here even works on a 110v circuit here with out loto or if they/we work hot and not wearing PPE you are escorted off the property immediately. That would result in loss of business for the EC and might push him in the right direction.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Big John said:


> It's not important that you care about it, it is important that your employer cares enough about it to make them afraid to put you in a dangerous situation.
> 
> -John


 
All the more reason for them to have harsher penalties for injuries, without focusing on the death part.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

wildleg said:


> All the more reason for them to have harsher penalties for injuries, without focusing on the death part.


 I gotcha. Yeah, as long as the penalty exists, I agree. It just really chaps my ass to read about a worker being killed, a multimillion dollar company getting cited for gross negligence, and then you discover their fine was $175,000. 

-John


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I would go to your Union Safety Commitee.


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