# license question



## drizt27 (Aug 6, 2009)

hey all, as i have posted before i am a 1st yr apprentice (soon to be 2nd yr) in local 3 in nyc. before i got into the apprenticeship i worked for a licensed electrician for nine years. Before local 3 called i was seriously considering going for my master electricians license. after being in the apprenticeship for a year and going through a year of all the schooling they send you to, the idea of my own license is still tugging at my heartstrings. 
i worked for a licensed guy who had a small business and i know that i could successfully run a small business in the same sort of vein and enjoy it all the while. that being said, i love all the benefits that the union has to offer (though everyone that i have come across seems to be out for themselves and not out to help each other) i like it nonetheless. i dont like that as an "A" journeyman there could be a year wait for a job. 
if i were to somehow tackle all the classes and get my nyc masters license would the union kick me out of the apprenticeship/union?
this may sound like i want to double dip (stay in union and have a small business) but that is not necessarily the case. the idea of my own shop is really on my mind...and i am just looking for advice. 
would they really be against me having a sole prop ..to make some money when i am on the bench possibly for a year?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I would get the license o matter what.
All the rest of the stuff I tread carefully, find someone in the local you can trust and ask them what they think. It might be acceptable if you only did residential or it might get both legs broken.

After 9 years they made you a first year apprentice, what kind of happy horse sh*t is that.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

brian john said:


> I would get the license o matter what.
> All the rest of the stuff I tread carefully, find someone in the local you can trust and ask them what they think. It might be acceptable if you only did residential or it might get both legs broken.
> 
> After 9 years they made you a first year apprentice, what kind of happy horse sh*t is that.


I think that a lot of guys do it, they just don't exactly advertise the fact. In fact, we've had union guys on this site that have run side businesses. One said something about having magnetic signs on his truck he'd take off when he was at the supply house or if he drove that truck to work at his regular union job. No matter what, I think the side biz has to be done on the down-low.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I had an apprentice that the moment he turned out he started his own company. I don't hate him. You have to do what you have to do. I am a union guy and am glad of it, but you have to do what you have to do. It's not worth it going through life wishing you had done something else. Stay with your education in the trade as long as you can. It is rough being the boss as you can hear from the guys on the forum. They have a deep gut instinct to be an owner and would be perfectly willing to hire a great electrician with good working skills and working habits. What I'm getting at is that it is not wrong to want to be a good worker, for a good company...and not the boss.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

brian john said:


> After 9 years they made you a first year apprentice, what kind of happy horse sh*t is that.


Get this. I worked for a manufacturing company, and the workers were represented by the IBEW. I was an electrician, so I mistakenly thought I was an IBEW electrician. Not so. Apparently, I was classified under electrical manufacturing, and not as a wireman. I didn't even understand, at that time, that it made a difference. So... when my time with that employer ended, I walked my butt into the closest IBEW hall and was promptly informed that I could start as a first year, with 16 years in electrical work at that time. I'm still a little sore about that, actually.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I think that a lot of guys do it, they just don't exactly advertise the fact. In fact, we've had union guys on this site that have run side businesses. One said something about having magnetic signs on his truck he'd take off when he was at the supply house or if he drove that truck to work at his regular union job. No matter what, I think the side biz has to be done on the down-low.


Yeah but this guy does not live in sane America, he is Local 3 NYC.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Get this. I worked for a manufacturing company, and the workers were represented by the IBEW. I was an electrician, so I mistakenly thought I was an IBEW electrician. Not so. Apparently, I was classified under electrical manufacturing, and not as a wireman. I didn't even understand, at that time, that it made a difference. So... when my time with that employer ended, I walked my butt into the closest IBEW hall and was promptly informed that I could start as a first year, with 16 years in electrical work at that time. I'm still a little sore about that, actually.


That would make me bitter too. The rules are not fair sometimes.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Don't mention anything to your Union brothers about starting your own business. If you are working right now as a apprentice this gives you breathing room to get your own business going the right way. Save up for a van and tools while working. Get money bank rolled for all the licensing. Research what licenses you are going to need and how much they will cost. Find out when and how much it costs to get in the Yellow Pages. Get your ducks in a row while working through the Union. Research how to use Quickbooks, how taxes work. I would not leave a decent job to go out on your own. Wait till you get laid off down the road as a journeyman. You'll also get some more experience. Once you get laid off you'll be able to collect unemployment. So you can get your business going and collect unemployment. What I'd do.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> That would make me bitter too. The rules are not fair sometimes.


Our local uses common sense when dealing with open shop electricians that want to sign up.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Don't mention anything to your Union brothers about starting your own business. If you are working right now as a apprentice this gives you breathing room to get your own business going the right way. Save up for a van and tools while working. Get money bank rolled for all the licensing. Research what licenses you are going to need and how much they will cost. Find out when and how much it costs to get in the Yellow Pages. Get your ducks in a row while working through the Union. Research how to use Quickbooks, how taxes work. I would not leave a decent job to go out on your own. Wait till you get laid off down the road as a journeyman. You'll also get some more experience. Once you get laid off you'll be able to collect unemployment. So you can get your business going and collect unemployment. What I'd do.


MMMM, sounds like you have been there done that?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> Our local uses common sense when dealing with open shop electricians that want to sign up.


I believe ours would, as well, but I can't speak for them. I do remember when I was out of work they knew, but did not give me grief. I stayed under the radar but was licensed and insured.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

First thing you need to do is check the licensing requirements for NYC.

I heard you almost have to be an EE to pass the test.

Their test is going to be designed to make you fail the requirements, rather than pass them.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

brian john said:


> MMMM, sounds like you have been there done that?


I wish I could have done it like that. Was my plan to tell the truth, except for the apprentice part. But, the Union is super slow so I'm skipping the first step and going right to starting your own business on a shoestring and a prayer.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

We are posting about LU#3 right? the last time I heard they had like 95% of the market share and had first hand knowledge of the other 5% so unless he plans on going outside they city to ply his trade cousin Guido will find out.Just curious but how is the cub doing with his school work?


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## drizt27 (Aug 6, 2009)

i dont know any cubs but I had a 93 average first yr in school. and everyone tells me local 3 is not even close to what it used to be. everyday there are journeymen telling apprentices to get out while they can. but like i said...i like what it offers and like it nonetheless ....the license thing is just still very much on my mind


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

drizt27 said:


> i dont know any cubs but I had a 93 average first yr in school. and everyone tells me local 3 is not even close to what it used to be. everyday there are journeymen telling apprentices to get out while they can. but like i said...i like what it offers and like it nonetheless ....the license thing is just still very much on my mind


 I meant no ill will with the slang I would have expected someone from New York would be well aware of what slang names are used to identify apprentice.Okay you have a 93 in theory what about the rest of your school work? Look only going by your post it sounds like you are impatient and have already made up your mind to be unethical(I assume you signed a contract and swore an oath) Please take the time to read the IBEW constitution. Now if you take and pass this said test, then go straight to the hall to sign an agreement, then in my opinion your morals are true. This is the worst economic situation our country has seen since 1933 so you are going to hear many people screaming that the sky is falling. We all have to make our own decision how we will live life but the decisions we make might decide how we look at ourself for the rest of our life.


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## drizt27 (Aug 6, 2009)

i took no ill will and i know the term "cub" well. i just think it refers to someone who is new to the industry and/or is young...and i am neither. i didnt just start doing electrical work when i got into the apprenticeship. thats all i meant. the other schoolwork we have is just the college classes they send us to...those are no problem ..all "A"s so far. 
i may sound impatient but i am in fact very patient. i know if and when i get a license it wont be next month..or even next year. i was just looking for advice ...if people thought it would be worth it to even go for a license. 
this may be a whole different topic but dont question someones morals or ethics ...we are only talking about electric work...not writing the fifth gospel...... what do morals have to do with anything? i said i wasnt looking to double dip....union or not...electric work is what makes us happy right? the rest is just rhetoric
every story i hear is about how local 3 screwed someone over ...i never hear about how they help you out when you really need it,so it makes me question what im doing sure...that natural,,but like i said....so far i still like what it offers.
im certainly not looking to offend anyone....i havent made up my mind about anything...thats obviously why i posted.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

drizt27 said:


> i took no ill will and i know the term "cub" well. i just think it refers to someone who is new to the industry and/or is young...and i am neither. i didnt just start doing electrical work when i got into the apprenticeship. thats all i meant. the other schoolwork we have is just the college classes they send us to...those are no problem ..all "A"s so far.
> i may sound impatient but i am in fact very patient. i know if and when i get a license it wont be next month..or even next year. i was just looking for advice ...if people thought it would be worth it to even go for a license.
> this may be a whole different topic but dont question someones morals or ethics ...we are only talking about electric work...not writing the fifth gospel...... what do morals have to do with anything? i said i wasnt looking to double dip....union or not...electric work is what makes us happy right? the rest is just rhetoric
> every story i hear is about how local 3 screwed someone over ...i never hear about how they help you out when you really need it,so it makes me question what im doing sure...that natural,,but like i said....so far i still like what it offers.
> im certainly not looking to offend anyone....i havent made up my mind about anything...thats obviously why i posted.


 I have worked out of your local on 3 occassions and have upmost respect for your local, as I felt all that work with us were treated with respect. Well as far as only electric work, I have a different opinion. Sounds by your post you took offense by my ethics question but you answered your own question (union or not...electric work is what makes us happy right?the rest is just rhetoric) I do enjoy plying the trade but I find true happiness within the Brotherhood, something that seems to have evaded your presence.To me there is more to being an IBEW electrician than just doing a job.I wish you well in whatever you choose to do.


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