# Unions



## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

I have had my dose of the union, and I can honestly say that unless things change drasticaly, I will never work union agian.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I can't say I'm particularly sympathetic towards corporations either. I'm happy some people are doing something to express their disapproval. Better than some silly on-line petition.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> This move (as reported on several local news stations) is supported and funded by SEIU Service Employees International Union.
> 
> http://walmartfreedc.org/
> 
> ...


----------



## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The development would employ up to 1,200 people in a city with 10.2% unemployment.


That is BS, sure they will "hire" 1,200 people but there will be more jobs lost in the next couple of years from the local businesses that can't compete with crap marts cheap prices on it 3rd world country made crap. Historically the jobs lots to gained ration for Wal-Marts is 1.08:1.(Meaning statisticlly there will be 96 jobs lost from this) And those jobs they "create" are lower paying that the ones they destroy. 

Now the tactics being used here are what gives unions a bad name, and using an economic arguement is not effective to your typical wal mart shopper (See examples http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/) because they only see that thier crap cost less and do not understand what the real costs behind those cheap goods is.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I can't say I'm particularly sympathetic towards corporations either. I'm happy some people are doing something to express their disapproval. Better than some silly on-line petition.


Would you appreciate them coming to your front door harassing your family, especially if you have kids?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I am no fan of Walmart, but until there is a law against it Walmart has a right to expand.


One of the complaints in the poorer sections of the city is a lack of shopping options. Anybody from this area knows about Landover Mall, the mall was built to give access to quality goods to those lacking shopping options (TRYING TO BE PC HERE). After 10-15 years the mall had to shut down seems product loss (theft) exceeded profits. Mall set empty for years, while those in the "know" came up with ideas, best idea they leveled the mall.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

brian john said:


> I am no fan of Walmart, but until there is a law against it Walmart has a right to expand.


Just as any business does. Some people just don't get that. 

BTW I love Wal Mart and shop there often. It's a great place to see the latest and greatest pj,s and slippers that are hot in the Hispanic community. (And I don't mean hanging on the racks for sale)


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> Would you appreciate them coming to your front door harassing your family, especially if you have kids?


Nope. So I better not get involved with something that would spark that kind of retribution.

Sure, I have the right to call black people derogatory names, but I shouldn't expect _not_ to get beat the $hit for it. People are getting more and more fed up with the legal systems here in America, which is usually in the favor of corporations anyway. Unions seem to be the strongest counterforce to corporations, but unfortunately their past transgressions, and some elitist attitudes precede them and hinder efforts that may very well be beneficial to a community.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> Nope. So I better not get involved with something that would spark that kind of retribution.
> 
> Sure, I have the right to call black people derogatory names, but I shouldn't expect _not_ to get beat the $hit for it. People are getting more and more fed up with the legal systems here in America, which is usually in the favor of corporations anyway. Unions seem to be the strongest counterforce to corporations, but unfortunately their past transgressions, and some elitist attitudes precede them and hinder efforts that may very well be beneficial to a community.


Your analogy has no basis in this discussion, unless you are talking about SEIU and the developer has the right to trash them. Oh wait they are cowards and are hiding behind BS false sites trying to hide their identities.

So lets say as a boss I decide you are a slacker I have the right to come to your neighborhood and trash your name.

Remember these corporations you have disdain for, many of the members of this forums own corporations and many others work for corporations. It will continue to be this way until we all work for Uncle Sam, then you'll see how well things work.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> Just as any business does. Some people just don't get that.


I think this point is absurd.

We're not talking Pat's and Geno's (two rivaling cheesesteak establishments across the street from each other).
EDIT: Point being larger corporations have a larger influence and unions as well as big gov't have all grown to compensate.

Walmart is not a helpless victim here. They're not you're friendly neighbor just tryin' to make a buck. I've encountered a lot of southern mentality of "don't tread on me!" when it comes to gov't, but for some reason big corporate seems to get a free ride when they throw their hands up and act like they're being oppressed by the tax man. C'mon now, we all know there's a big difference between the little hardware store on the corner and Home Depot.

When people protest the big government they're patriots, when people protest big corporate they're an oppressive leftist mob.

I will side with a community most every time if they don't want a business in their neighborhood. If there are those that do, they can go out and protest all the same.

The big wigs at the top are so far removed from these things I'm glad someone has taken it to their doors.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I think this point is absurd.
> 
> We're not talking Pat's and Geno's (two rivaling cheesesteak establishments across the street from each other).
> 
> Walmart is not a helpless victim here.


But they catch a lot of crap for running a legitimate business as all big American corporations do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A



> They're not you're friendly neighbor just tryin' to make a buck.


So am I and if I missed something so are you?



> I've encountered a lot of southern mentality of "don't tread on me!" when it comes to gov't, but for some reason big corporate seems to get a free ride when they throw their hands up and act like they're being oppressed by the tax man.


Corporations produce, government for the most part is sucking the life out of commerce. But I also realize that many large corporations are on government welfare.




> C'mon now, we all know there's a big difference between the little hardware store on the corner and Home Depot.


Whats the difference, oh yeah some people shop Walmart and drive the small guy out of business. WHY? Better buying power and a larger selection, DAMN put them in jail.



> When people protest the big government they're patriots, when people protest big corporate they're an oppressive leftist mob.


Have you ever been in a protest? Trying going to a political reps house and protest, you are going to jail IN QUICK ORDER.



> I will side with a community most every time if they don't want a business in their neighborhood. If there are those that do, they can go out and protest all the same.
> .


If you side with the community then according to local news reports you are on the wrong side of this argument. Locals want it. SEIU does not, SEIU gets no money from a Walmart store, no union members, no dues no cash.

So if I decide to lead a group of my neighbors to keep you and your employer out of my community (for personal reasons) you are OK with that?


----------



## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

4 of the top 9 richest people in the United States have the last name Walton yet their employees are not allowed to be union or to earn a decent wage. Let's keep the money in the few's pockets. Who needs a good economy?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Nildogg said:


> 4 of the top 9 richest people in the United States have the last name Walton yet their employees are not allowed to be union or to earn a decent wage. Let's keep the money in the few's pockets. Who needs a good economy?


Are they breaking the law? (where Walmart was breaking the law they paid stiff fines)
Are they forcing folks to work there?
What wage should a shelf stocker make?
Does Walmart force YOU to shop there.

If a shelf stocker makes more all wages rise in proportion and once again he will be on the bottom shelf of workers, where they should be based on economics.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> But they catch a lot of crap for running a legitimate business as all big American corporations do.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A
> 
> ...


Look, I honestly don't have my heart so set in this to get involved in a quote by quote argument. I believe anyone in their right minds knows that Walmart (and other corps.) on many levels is extreme. Most people believe in a healthy competition based economy. No offense Brian, but your company (nor anyone else's here) is on the same level as Walmart. If they had an electrical sub division they'd put you out of business real quick.



brian john said:


> Your analogy has no basis in this discussion, unless you are talking about SEIU and the developer has the right to trash them. Oh wait they are cowards and are hiding behind BS false sites trying to hide their identities.
> 
> So lets say as a boss I decide you are a slacker I have the right to come to your neighborhood and trash your name.
> 
> Remember these corporations you have disdain for, many of the members of this forums own corporations and many others work for corporations. It will continue to be this way until we all work for Uncle Sam, then you'll see how well things work.


I would guess that if you decided I was a slacker, you would warn me first, and if my behavior continued, eventually fire me. If I kept showing up on the job you'd probably call the police until you achieved the end result you were looking for, which would be the removal of my presence.

I believe the natural progression of things on such a scale as this is civil protest/legal action, then violence. Things will continue to escalate especially as the perceived threat continues to grow. I mean, is anybody really surprised by these events? Doubtful.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Nildogg said:


> 4 of the top 9 richest people in the United States have the last name Walton yet their employees are not allowed to be union or to earn a decent wage. Let's keep the money in the few's pockets. Who needs a good economy?


Start your own empire then. WTF???? 

Why are you, or anybody else entitled to a penny of their money?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Zog said:


> That is BS, sure they will "hire" 1,200 people but there will be more jobs lost in the next couple of years from the local businesses that can't compete with crap marts cheap prices on it 3rd world country made crap. Historically the jobs lots to gained ration for Wal-Marts is 1.08:1.(Meaning statisticlly there will be 96 jobs lost from this) And those jobs they "create" are lower paying that the ones they destroy.
> 
> Now the tactics being used here are what gives unions a bad name, and using an economic arguement is not effective to your typical wal mart shopper (See examples http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/) because they only see that thier crap cost less and do not understand what the real costs behind those cheap goods is.


I agree with you..But it is not ok for the union to incite a riot in front of some ones private home.
The unions have priced the American workforce out of business.

I buy American when ever i can and i do not shop at walmart because they sell nothing but junk.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

WAL-MART is the way of the world.

I've come to the conclusion that 90% of the money that enters that place comes from a gubbamint check, dope-dealer's pocket, or rat-contractor's payroll.

People on the right are paranoid of FEMA death-camps and gubbamint snooping, people on the left are paranoid that walmart tactics will wipe out all small local business and sustainability, who is living in reality now??


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> I think this point is absurd.
> 
> We're not talking Pat's and Geno's (two rivaling cheesesteak establishments across the street from each other).
> EDIT: Point being larger corporations have a larger influence and unions as well as big gov't have all grown to compensate.
> ...





I could give a **** less if a corporation ever pays taxes. How can that upset you but so called poor people with 2 or 3 tv's and a car for the family pay zero taxes....Corporations may lobby for what they want but it's the congressmen/women that are at fault for allowing themselves to to be lobbied...I got an idea...Lets make the HALF (thats right 50% or close to it the country that DOES NOT pay taxes pay their share. Lets make people on welfare do community service to get it.



And even if walmart started an electrical contracting firm they could not put us out of business. Our customers aren't buying cheap. They are buying quality and my sales pitch. Could they put a hurting on bigger EC's? Sure but guess what....they could get some investors and compete with them. Business is about being smart and not putting all your eggs in one basket. Progress means many things change or go away completely...


----------



## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I could give a **** less if a corporation ever pays taxes. How can that upset you but so called poor people with 2 or 3 tv's and a car for the family pay zero taxes....Corporations may lobby for what they want but it's the congressmen/women that are at fault for allowing themselves to to be lobbied...I got an idea...Lets make the HALF (thats right 50% or close to it the country that DOES NOT pay taxes pay their share. Lets make people on welfare do community service to get it.


Don't forget the random drug testing.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> I could give a **** less if a corporation ever pays taxes. How can that upset you but so called poor people with 2 or 3 tv's and a car for the family pay zero taxes....Corporations may lobby for what they want but it's the congressmen/women that are at fault for allowing themselves to to be lobbied...I got an idea...Lets make the HALF (thats right 50% or close to it the country that DOES NOT pay taxes pay their share. Lets make people on welfare do community service to get it.


I have no qualms with that, I don't believe anyone here was arguing for or against that either.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

I believe that years ago, Wal Mart should have been broken up by the FTC, like Standard oil was and like MA Bell was. There is an obvious precedent for this. They have a monopoly.

Should they be able to build a store where they choose? Yes, as long as it meets zoning requirements. But, let them pay for ALL of the infrastructure. Wherever they can get away with it, they swindle the local taxpayers into paying for a lot of the road work, water, etc. required for one of their supercenters.

They do NOT add jobs to a local economy. When they open and gain market share, jobs are lost at competing retailers. Usually, only a few employees in the store make a living wage. The rest depend on government subsidies such as food stamps, federally subsidized housing, etc., to survive.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> I am no fan of Walmart, but until there is a law against it Walmart has a right to expand.
> 
> 
> One of the complaints in the poorer sections of the city is a lack of shopping options. Anybody from this area knows about Landover Mall, the mall was built to give access to quality goods to those lacking shopping options (TRYING TO BE PC HERE). After 10-15 years the mall had to shut down seems product loss (theft) exceeded profits. Mall set empty for years, while those in the "know" came up with ideas, best idea they leveled the mall.


 
I think you mean black people. That has happened in numerous urban areas accross the country. It's nothing new.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> I believe that years ago, Wal Mart should have been broken up by the FTC, like Standard oil was and like MA Bell was. There is an obvious precedent for this. They have a monopoly.
> 
> Should they be able to build a store where they choose? Yes, as long as it meets zoning requirements. But, let them pay for ALL of the infrastructure. Wherever they can get away with it, they swindle the local taxpayers into paying for a lot of the road work, water, etc. required for one of their supercenters.
> 
> They do NOT add jobs to a local economy. When they open and gain market share, jobs are lost at competing retailers. Usually, only a few employees in the store make a living wage. The rest depend on government subsidies such as food stamps, federally subsidized housing, etc., to survive.


You about nailed it, I think. Nothing good about Wal-Mart, whether they're legal or not. There's plenty of laws out there on the books that are still ethically questionable.

A lot of these large corporations are able to do what they do because of, *in my opinion*, a severe perversion of the 14th amendment. Check out the Supreme Court case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, from back in the 1880s.

http://www.amazon.com/Wal-Mart-Destroying-America-World-About/dp/1580082319


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> This move (as reported on several local news stations) is supported and funded by SEIU Service Employees International Union.
> 
> http://walmartfreedc.org/
> 
> ...


 

I don't cringe when I hear union. My first "real" job was a union job. I worked for Cummins Engine Co. I have a degree in tool engineering, and yes, some white collar workforces are unionized. The thing that I liked about it was that management could not constantly be hanging over your shoulder bitching about things or firing people willy nilly. It really frees a guy up to concentrate on his work and career, not having to worry about stupid office politics. On the flip side, a few people did take advantage of the situation.

If I were in the job market, I would take either a union or non-union job. It would all depend on my needs and what is available.

I think unions get a bad rap in this country, but they are not beyond criticism.


----------



## jusme123 (Dec 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> But they catch a lot of crap for running a legitimate business as all big American corporations do.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A
> 
> ...



...than you would not mind a topless bar across the street from your home?


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Anyone who says walmart is a monopoly is seriously f' ed in the head. Target is across the street from ours. There are many other options available to people. One more thing they pay as much as MC donalds here and I dont ever see anyone saying mc donalds is screwing their employees....things and times change. Companies come and companies go. Pay phones and blockbuster are a thing of the past. It's called progress. I'm going to walmart now to buy cedar shavings for my outside dogs...Have a nice afternoon gentleman....


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

What I see a lot these days is, "if you don't like it, don't work there, don't buy there, etc". This sounds like preaching indifference. I didn't vote for Obama, and he still became president. I don't give to poor, but they still beg me for money. I don't shop at walmart and they still continue to grow.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I could give a **** less if a corporation ever pays taxes. How can that upset you but so called poor people with 2 or 3 tv's and a car for the family pay zero taxes....Corporations may lobby for what they want but it's the congressmen/women that are at fault for allowing themselves to to be lobbied...I got an idea...Lets make the HALF (thats right 50% or close to it the country that DOES NOT pay taxes pay their share. Lets make people on welfare do community service to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> And even if walmart started an electrical contracting firm they could not put us out of business. Our customers aren't buying cheap. They are buying quality and my sales pitch. Could they put a hurting on bigger EC's? Sure but guess what....they could get some investors and compete with them. Business is about being smart and not putting all your eggs in one basket. Progress means many things change or go away completely...


 
Owning a vehicle and two or three TV's is not a measure of wealth The value of said items could be less than $1000 dollars. Many families pay well over $1000 a month for medical insurance.


----------



## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

Like the guys at the housing projects here that have a mud truck out front with $1000 worth of tires on em? And a new Iphone ($50 a month), and cable tv ($50 a month)? How do you measure wealth?


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Anyone who says walmart is a monopoly is seriously f' ed in the head. Target is across the street from ours. There are many other options available to people. One more thing they pay as much as MC donalds here and I dont ever see anyone saying mc donalds is screwing their employees....things and times change. Companies come and companies go. Pay phones and blockbuster are a thing of the past. It's called progress. I'm going to walmart now to buy cedar shavings for my outside dogs...Have a nice afternoon gentleman....


 
Anyone who does NOT think Wal Mart is a monopoly is seriously f'ed in the head. I have to leave now and go to Wal Mart to get cat food. No one else around here sells the kind my cats like.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> I don't cringe when I hear union. My first "real" job was a union job. I worked for Cummins Engine Co. I have a degree in tool engineering, and yes, some white collar workforces are unionized. The thing that I liked about it was that management could not constantly be hanging over your shoulder bitching about things or firing people willy nilly. It really frees a guy up to concentrate on his work and career, not having to worry about stupid office politics. On the flip side, a few people did take advantage of the situation.
> 
> If I were in the job market, I would take either a union or non-union job. It would all depend on my needs and what is available.
> 
> I think unions get a bad rap in this country, but they are not beyond criticism.


 


> I think unions get a bad rap in this country, but they are not beyond criticism




Unions get a bad rap Because they are bad,,And do nothing exchept turn good workers into bad ones,,,If a worker produces $8 worth of goods per hour, that does not meen they should be payed $68 per hour for 5.5 hours of work. 
Unions get a bad rap because some how they think its OK to incite a riot in front of some ones private home..
The list of the bad things that they do far outwagh the good things and there are a number of states that are about to go bankrupted because of them.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Anyone who says walmart is a monopoly is seriously f' ed in the head. Target is across the street from ours. There are many other options available to people. One more thing they pay as much as MC donalds here and I dont ever see anyone saying mc donalds is screwing their employees....things and times change. Companies come and companies go. Pay phones and blockbuster are a thing of the past. It's called progress. I'm going to walmart now to buy cedar shavings for my outside dogs...Have a nice afternoon gentleman....





doubleoh7 said:


> Anyone who does NOT think Wal Mart is a monopoly is seriously f'ed in the head. I have to leave now and go to Wal Mart to get cat food. No one else around here sells the kind my cats like.


I have a multitude of pets. Three ferrets, a guinea pig, a parakeet, and a frog.

I wasn't able to buy ferret food anywhere in town because no one sold it. Wal-Mart sells ferret food but it is cheap garbage and would probably cause health/digestive problems. I finally found a feed store in the next town down the road (about 15 miles away) that sells my preferred brand of ferret food. It's worth the trip and extra cost to me because 1) it's the best food for my pets, 2) it's not the cheap Wal-Mart crap, and 3) the feed store is a locally owned business. If they have any electrical work that needs to be done, there's a reasonable chance that they will call my shop and I will get dispatched to go take care of it.

Guinea pig food (timothy hay and fresh romaine lettuce) and parakeet food is easier to come by, and I utilize my local feed store for those.

The frog eats fruit flies. I ordered a fruit fly culture kit online and I've been breeding them for over a year now from the same culture.

I'm fine with paying the extra dollar or two because I know it will go to my neighbors and not the Waltons.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> Like the guys at the housing projects here that have a mud truck out front with $1000 worth of tires on em? And a new Iphone ($50 a month), and cable tv ($50 a month)? How do you measure wealth?


 

I'm not sure if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me? Or just stating an observation. Let's look at some numbers.


73-79 F150 or 73-87 Chev/GMC 4wd with lift kit, terminal body cancer, back or camo spray can paint job, and headers that leak terribly.:

$1200

Large tires plus rims $1000

cable TV 12 x $50 $600

I phone 12 X $50 $600


Total $3400


If you look at it over a years time it is $3400. Less than $300 a month.

That's the numbers. 


BTW, I bet I know where a few of those are parked. The apartments on the right hand side before you go over the bridge at -----stown?


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Unions get a bad rap Because they are bad,,And do nothing exchept turn good workers into bad ones,,,If a worker produces $8 worth of goods per hour, that does not meen they should be payed $68 per hour for 5.5 hours of work.
> Unions get a bad rap because some how they think its OK to incite a riot in front of some ones private home..
> The list of the bad things that they do far outwagh the good things and there are a number of states that are about to go bankrupted because of them.


 

Bullcrap Without unions The United States would not have a middle class. Learn some 20th century history.


----------



## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

Correct on the location. I was actually disagreeing. I hate going to the goverment housing to see that they have nicer things than me. We built a new unit at a housing project and the F##kers would sit on their porches and drink beer while yelling at us to "work harder, we need bigger relief checks". People that need help need help, people that milk the system need shot.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Thing is, with more people having fewer places to work besides walmart, they're gonna need more gov't housing. And who needs a higher paying job when everything at walmart is so cheap...and the only place to buy anything in your small town, anyway?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Bullcrap Without unions The United States would not have a middle class. Learn some 20th century history.


What part? :001_huh:

Union membership is less than 10% of the private sector work force..

But just about all public sector jobs are Union and they are bankrupting the country..


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> Correct on the location. I was actually disagreeing. I hate going to the goverment housing to see that they have nicer things than me. We built a new unit at a housing project and the F##kers would sit on their porches and drink beer while yelling at us to "work harder, we need bigger relief checks". People that need help need help, people that milk the system need shot.


 

We need to send the mexicans home and keep them out, also send the corporate criminals in the meat plant down the road to prison. I know where the new management can find some available workers, however, they will have to pay more and offer health insurance.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Bullcrap Without unions The United States would not have a middle class. Learn some 20th century history.


 Look at it this way ,, lets unoinize the entire work force and double everones pay..What happens to the price of goods and service?
Prices would double so you have gained nothing your spending power remains the same..


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> We need to send the mexicans home and keep them out, also send the corporate criminals in the meat plant down the road to prison. I know where the new management can find some available workers, however, they will have to pay more and offer health insurance.


 Just think they could pay even more without the health insurance.....


----------



## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

They have health insurance, BCBS.


----------



## jusme123 (Dec 27, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Look at it this way ,, lets unoinize the entire work force and double everones pay..What happens to the price of goods and service?
> Prices would double so you have gained nothing your spending power remains the same..


... spending power is less today than it was 30 years ago


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jusme123 said:


> [/B]
> ...than you would not mind a topless bar across the street from your home?


Not at all I have a large stack of $1.00 dollar bills. Those bars are built where the traffic will bear and are allowed by zoning. While I am not in the money by any stretch, the likes of Wonder Woman (Linda Carter), Kennedy,s, Firestones and a few others live near me, they would fight that battle.

1st house I owned was in the ghetto (sot of) and we had every half way house in the city, the neighborhood turned around I sold at an enormous profit and the new ELITE got rid of all the half way homes. They do not allow highways, halfway shelters, gentlemen's clubs and landfills in rich neighborhoods. Sad but true.

2nd House I owned I lost to eminent domain for a land fill, I sold at a big profit (doubled my money in 18 months). 

So I take what comes my way. They open a "GENTLEMEN's" Club (that name is a joke) and I'l sell to his competitor, pocket the cash and move on.

OH I live 3/4 miles from the nearest road.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jusme123 said:


> ... spending power is less today than it was 30 years ago


Thats right thats what happens when Union workers are payed more than twice as much as they could earn in the private sector.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Look at it this way ,, lets unoinize the entire work force and double everones pay..What happens to the price of goods and service?
> Prices would double so you have gained nothing your spending power remains the same..


 

Prices most certainly would not double. Think about it and do some simple math. You have been listening to Rush Limbaugh and his corporate Republican buddies too much. I do not believe in the right wing's vision of a prosperous nation. The right wing/corporate America/Fox-New/Neal Cavuto types see prosperity as having a very few, very wealthy people and the majority of the population working for Wal Mart wages and living in public housing.

The problem with public employees is that there is a circle jerk going on between their unions and the politicians. The membership gets generous pay, benefits, and retirement, and the politician gets generous campaign donations.The retirement plans that goverment workers get are a killer. They spend a lot of decades collecting a check that they are not working for and did not have to work many years to collect. Illinois may end up getting out of a lot of that sooner or later if they file for bankruptcy.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

jusme123 said:


> ... spending power is less today than it was 30 years ago


 

You can get a lot of cheap crap for less than you could 30 years ago. The things that really matter aren't any cheaper. Those things are: a home, health insurance and a vehicle. Those 3 things are out of reach for too many working Americans.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Prices most certainly would not double. Think about it and do some simple math. You have been listening to Rush Limbaugh and his corporate Republican buddies too much. I do not believe in the right wing's vision of a prosperous nation. The right wing/corporate America/Fox-New/Neal Cavuto types see prosperity as having a very few, very wealthy people and the majority of the population working for Wal Mart wages and living in public housing.
> 
> The problem with public employees is that there is a circle jerk going on between their unions and the politicians. The membership gets generous pay, benefits, and retirement, and the politician gets generous campaign donations.The retirement plans that goverment workers get are a killer. They spend a lot of decades collecting a check that they are not working for and did not have to work many years to collect. Illinois may end up getting out of a lot of that sooner or later if they file for bankruptcy.


Ok so next time you hire some one pay him twice as much but don't raise your prices at all and make sure you pay for his health insurance, 6 weeks vacation ,Dental, six weeks sick pay,100% retirement, life insurance, clothing,long lunches housing.....
BTW rush sticks up for you every day..


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Ok so next time you hire some one pay him twice as much but don't raise your prices at all and make sure you pay for his health insurance, 6 weeks vacation ,Dental, six weeks sick pay,100% retirement, life insurance, clothing,long lunches housing.....
> BTW rush sticks up for you every day..


 
Rush was one of the biggest proponents of shipping manufacturing out of this country. I lost a good career due to that. He is an extremely rich elitist who hates the middle class.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Ok so next time you hire some one pay him twice as much but don't raise your prices at all and make sure you pay for his health insurance, 6 weeks vacation ,Dental, six weeks sick pay,100% retirement, life insurance, clothing,long lunches housing.....
> BTW rush sticks up for you every day..


 

I made my point and now you are deflecting.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Rush was one of the biggest proponents of shipping manufacturing out of this country. I lost a good career due to that. He is an extremely rich elitist who hates the middle class.


 I have never heard him say that once..
You must listen to him more than me:laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> I made my point and now you are deflecting.


 I am not deflecting at all . you just know im right:laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> What I see a lot these days is, "if you don't like it, don't work there, don't buy there, etc". This sounds like preaching indifference. I didn't vote for Obama, and he still became president. I don't give to poor, but they still beg me for money. I don't shop at walmart and they still continue to grow.


Bingo. I am preaching indifference. I don't give two poops about Wal Mart or any other big corporation. Much like government, they are all corrupt in some form or another and there is not a thing you can do about it. Life is way too short to worry about that crap. I worry about me, my family and what I can do to make my life better. 

If you don't like something change it. BUT, at the same time it is not up to you to decide to change what I and gazillions of other people like just fine such as Wal Mart.

Thankfully for the most part majority still rules.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> I don't shop at walmart and they still continue to grow.


Whenever something grows, the answer is: beat it into submission. Problem solved, it works for much smaller things, like roll of dimes sized objects. :thumbup:


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Whenever something grows, the answer is: beat it into submission. Problem solved, it works for much smaller things, like roll of dimes sized objects. :thumbup:


 
Life Savers?


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> you just know im right:laughing:


Harry means well.... that's what I keep telling myself.

I remember when Harry showed up here, many many posts ago. He came online ranting about how CE/CW was going to ruin electrical contracting. I was like, Huh?! How did this guy get his head screwed on backwards?!?

But you gotta love the guy, in the end, he wants what's best for Americans. How he came to the conclusions about what is best for us all, well, I hope that's a work in progress. :thumbup:


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

doubleoh7 said:


> Life Savers?


Are you saying its something to suck on too? HELLZ YEAH! :thumbup: Almost broke my neck trying that one.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Harry means well.... that's what I keep telling myself.
> 
> I remember when Harry showed up here, many many posts ago. He came online ranting about how CE/CW was going to ruin electrical contracting. I was like, Huh?! How did this guy get his head screwed on backwards?!?
> 
> But you gotta love the guy, in the end, he wants what's best for Americans. How he came to the conclusions about what is best for us all, well, I hope that's a work in progress. :thumbup:


 
I was an enthusiastic Republican at one time. I even listened to Rush Limabaugh and bought his first two books. Then I realized that their goals for this country did not include prosperity (a secure middle class job) for me.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> I was an enthusiastic Republican at one time. I even listened to Rush Limabaugh and bought his first two books. Then I realized that their goals for this country did not include prosperity (a secure middle class job) for me.


 I do not Agree


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Harry means well.... that's what I keep telling myself.
> 
> I remember when Harry showed up here, many many posts ago. He came online ranting about how CE/CW was going to ruin electrical contracting. I was like, Huh?! How did this guy get his head screwed on backwards?!?
> 
> But you gotta love the guy, in the end, he wants what's best for Americans. How he came to the conclusions about what is best for us all, well, I hope that's a work in progress. :thumbup:


 It is..:laughing::laughing:


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> I do not Agree


 
They eliminated my good paying career. The sky is blue. I suppose thet you do not agree with that either.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> They eliminated my good paying career. The sky is blue. I suppose thet you do not agree with that either.


 Who did:001_huh:


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

doubleoh7 said:


> They eliminated my good paying career.


I think we will find the source of all our troubles rooted in the tax code. When capital gains and trade barriers were tweaked such that it became profitible to move production overseas... away it went.

Lets not mix motives, there has always been only one motive, higher returns. Try and reverse the process to bring jobs back, and business will cry it is being unfairly penalized... Make no mistake, we're suffering a bunch of sociopaths at the helm in this country. Nothing can be done until they are revealed for their true identity. That goes for both parties, gentlemen. :no:


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> i think we will find the source of all our troubles rooted in the tax code. When capital gains and trade barriers were tweaked such that it became profitible to move production overseas... Away it went.
> 
> Lets not mix motives, there has always been only one motive, higher returns. Try and reverse the process to bring jobs back, and business will cry it is being unfairly penalized... Make no mistake, we're suffering a bunch of sociopaths at the helm in this country. Nothing can be done until they are revealed for their true identity. That goes for both parties, gentlemen. :no:


 
exactly !!!


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I think we will find the source of all our troubles rooted in the tax code. When capital gains and trade barriers were tweaked such that it became profitible to move production overseas... away it went.
> 
> Lets not mix motives, there has always been only one motive, higher returns. Try and reverse the process to bring jobs back, and business will cry it is being unfairly penalized... Make no mistake, we're suffering a bunch of sociopaths at the helm in this country. Nothing can be done until they are revealed for their true identity. That goes for both parties, gentlemen. :no:


 
Trade policy that is probably written by the corporate criminals themselves is why the jobs went overseas. Labor there is so cheap plus they have little regulation.


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> Trade policy that is probably written by the corporate criminals themselves is why the jobs went overseas. Labor there is so cheap plus they have little regulation.


 
Correct again !!!


----------



## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Just want to get this in before lock down:laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

The original intent of my post was to point out, no matter where you stand on union issues, free trade or big business, the tactics noted are bad for the union image. Something IMO that unions do not need at this time.

Even if you think the union is right in doing this, this action will hurt them in the long run.


----------



## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> Unions get a bad rap Because they are bad,,And do nothing exchept turn good workers into bad ones,,,If a worker produces $8 worth of goods per hour, that does not meen they should be payed $68 per hour for 5.5 hours of work.
> Unions get a bad rap because some how they think its OK to incite a riot in front of some ones private home..
> The list of the bad things that they do far outwagh the good things and there are a number of states that are about to go bankrupted because of them.


WHAT.A.CROCK.OF.SH!T...

I got news for you, just like walmart is a piece of sh!t corporation, not all corporations are bad, and just like some unions are pieces of sh!t not all unions are bad

Oh and by the way, If I made half of what I make now, I'd probably be on welfare


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> The original intent of my post was to point out, no matter where you stand on union issues, free trade or big business, the tactics noted are bad for the union image. Something IMO that unions do not need at this time.
> 
> Even if you think the union is right in doing this, this action will hurt them in the long run.


 
Brian,

I am not sure if will will hurt or help them. It seems to me that so many people all ready have their minds made up about unions.


----------



## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

brian john said:


> Are they breaking the law? (where Walmart was breaking the law they paid stiff fines)
> Are they forcing folks to work there?
> What wage should a shelf stocker make?
> Does Walmart force YOU to shop there.
> ...


 
*I* don't shop there. :no:


----------



## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Start your own empire then. WTF????
> 
> Why are you, or anybody else entitled to a penny of their money?


 
You guys talk crap on all the lowballers on craigslist, yet "scab your way through life." Same game. LOL...scab on Scab.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Nildogg said:


> *I* don't shop there. :no:


Neither do I. But if Americans as a complete group would work in force to buy American, things might be a bit different, instead many shop bottom dollar.


----------



## idioteque83 (May 19, 2009)

*Why do people do this*

Believe it or not, I am union and I am happy! People are going to find something to bitch about no matter what. There are some other things you might not believe. I work very hard, try to do the best job possible, I do not miss any time at work, I work too much actually, I don't go on strike, I am not a thug, I really care about the customers we work for and I get up and go to work everyday just like the non union. The only difference is I believe the union means something. I get compensated fairly for my efforts. I get a decent retirement and insurance. People seem to all to often forget all the things that unions have fought for. I am not a radical, just someone who believes in something.


----------



## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

brian john said:


> Neither do I. But if Americans as a complete group would work in force to buy American, things might be a bit different, instead many shop bottom dollar.


 
Beautiful thought.


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

I will have to admit that Brians thread has created a good discussion although I am skeptic to the whole truth of what was posted on an e-zine. I am not denying that this did or did not happen.Did this picket and or poster have this said unions blessing or was it done by some of the members on their own.I can not speak for this union but I know within the IBEW this would have went before several lawyers and committee's before word got to rank and file members, I have no doubt that this idea would have been deemed illegal and unethical. Brian your thread did give the naysayers something to cheer for(so good for them) even if it does not make sense. I am thankful to be top side another day myself.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

RUSSIAN said:


> WHAT.A.CROCK.OF....
> 
> I got news for you, just like walmart is a piece of * corporation, not all corporations are bad, and just like some unions are pieces of sh!t not all unions are bad
> 
> Oh and by the way, If I made half of what I make now, I'd probably be on welfare


Thanks for the good news



> Oh and by the way, If I made half of what I make now, I'd probably be on welfare


So you would let the Government give you Food stamps and welfare.

Instead of going out without the Union holding your hand to make a living for you and your family:no::no:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> Oh and by the way, If I made half of what I make now, I'd probably be on welfare


You are a union electrician in SAn Fran? And you can't live on half of what you make now? 

While obviously I would not want to live on 1/2 of local union wages, I could do it. It is called making adjustments and living within your means.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> While obviously I would not want to live on 1/2 of local union wages, I could do it. It is called making adjustments and living within your means.


The Mill-dog can live on next to nothing, having grown up that way. Yet it is not a very nurturing form of life that I would want to return to... My wife on the other hand as well, makes decent scratch, but does not have a champagne and caviar taste, more like chicken and mayo.

I am not saying to prepare for the absolute worst, but if you have no idea how to get by in that kind of situation, chances are fate will throw you a turd collar to teach you how. Yikes, funny thing Murphy's Laws.


----------



## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> Thanks for the good news
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, never said I would. But good job on reading more then I wrote. BTW I worked non union before I joined and like I I've said here many times, in this market union is the way to go
It's a bit of exaggeration on my part, but no commercial electrician should make half what I make living here, and if they are they are fooling themselves.


----------



## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> I agree with you..But it is not ok for the union to incite a riot in front of some ones private home.
> The unions have priced the American workforce out of business.
> 
> I buy American when ever i can and i do not shop at walmart because they sell nothing but junk.


Could not agree more with any of that. But the union is not technically doing these, it just comsists of some union members. Either way, it is crossing the line.

$1,200 for every GM car go to retiree health benifits, that buys a lot of leather seats and nav systems and makes it impossible to compete. I always try to buy quality over price, which often means american made, but not as often as it used to.


----------



## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

brian john said:


> You are a union electrician in SAn Fran? And you can't live on half of what you make now?
> 
> While obviously I would not want to live on 1/2 of local union wages, I could do it. It is called making adjustments and living within your means.


Of course I could(and have), but I could never afford a house or anything else. $20hr isn't sh!t around here. I believe the median for most of the bay area is above 60k.
I may be weird but I really believe that we should be making a good living, not just making "a living". If the plumbers can make 100k why cant I?


----------



## jusme123 (Dec 27, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Thats right thats what happens when Union workers are payed more than twice as much as they could earn in the private sector.


Harry, they only way I can describe your comment is, 'your clueless!'


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jusme123 said:


> Harry, they only way I can describe your comment is, 'your clueless!'


 Thanks your right...:laughing:


----------



## jusme123 (Dec 27, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Thanks your right...:laughing:


You comment like all union employees make an outrageous amount of money, which is NOT the case


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

jusme123 said:


> You comment like all union employees make an outrageous amount of money, which is NOT the case


That's right, the SEIU guys taking on Wal-mart are janitors, and many don't speak english well. They are fighting their balls off for a couple bucks above minimum wage and a measly health-plan.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> I will have to admit that Brians thread has created a good discussion although I am skeptic to the whole truth of what was posted on an e-zine. I am not denying that this did or did not happen.Did this picket and or poster have this said unions blessing or was it done by some of the members on their own.I can not speak for this union but I know within the IBEW this would have went before several lawyers and committee's before word got to rank and file members, I have no doubt that this idea would have been deemed illegal and unethical. Brian your thread did give the naysayers something to cheer for(so good for them) even if it does not make sense. I am thankful to be top side another day myself.


SHOCKING! Noah is presented with a real situation right in front of his face and STILL says it isn't happening. Noah, as I have been saying over and over, you are a phony liar, why do you even comment on this stuff? You have no credibility.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jusme123 said:


> You comment like all union employees make an outrageous amount of money, which is NOT the case


 No it is not


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> I will have to admit that Brians thread has created a good discussion although I am skeptic to the whole truth of what was posted on an e-zine. I am not denying that this did or did not happen.Did this picket and or poster have this said unions blessing or was it done by some of the members on their own.I can not speak for this union but I know within the IBEW this would have went before several lawyers and committee's before word got to rank and file members, I have no doubt that this idea would have been deemed illegal and unethical. Brian your thread did give the naysayers something to cheer for(so good for them) even if it does not make sense. I am thankful to be top side another day myself.


Noah, this is the second time in 9 months they have pulled this crap, in addition to this, they protest in front of office buildings harassing workers. I say harassing as they not only bothered my daughter in her first week of work after college, they scared her.

So lets screw some private citizen that deserves to have a safe home for his family, they hassled a member of my family. Oh and this private citizen is a developer trying to give shopping options to citizens of DC. In the poor areas of DC and most cities options are limited due to a high level of theft. Not some Walmart exec. 

How would you like it if a group of thugs came to your home and not only hassled you, but your family and neighbors. Oh thats right you can't see the fact that any group might have a-holes that work outside the organization. Only with SEIU the management appears to be the A-holes.

But sit back and lie to yourself as has been the case from your first post, and unions will continue to lose members. Or wake up and smell the turds.


----------



## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

Zog said:


> Could not agree more with any of that. But the union is not technically doing these, it just comsists of some union members. Either way, it is crossing the line.
> 
> $1,200 for every GM car go to retiree health benifits, that buys a lot of leather seats and nav systems and makes it impossible to compete. I always try to buy quality over price, which often means american made, but not as often as it used to.


 
LOL @ 1200$...haha.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> SHOCKING! Noah is presented with a real situation right in front of his face and STILL says it isn't happening. Noah, as I have been saying over and over, you are a phony liar, why do you even comment on this stuff? You have no credibility.


 
I don't think Noah is an electrician I think he is a Union BA.

More like a Union BS actually....


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah, this is the second time in 9 months they have pulled this crap, in addition to this, they protest in front of office buildings harassing workers. I say harassing as they not only bothered my daughter in her first week of work after college, they scared her.
> 
> So lets screw some private citizen that deserves to have a safe home for his family, they hassled a member of my family. Oh and this private citizen is a developer trying to give shopping options to citizens of DC. In the poor areas of DC and most cities options are limited due to a high level of theft. Not some Walmart exec.
> 
> ...


 Okay Brian I will ask in a different manner, has this attack been approved by this union or is it by individual attackers??? We can all agree that there is no ideal Eden. My point is that this does not seem like a calculated plan by a union but a lark provoked by anger( and maybe intensified by alcohol) In your first post I noticed what you posted, has this been blasted on CNN,USA Today? I guess I have been out of the the loop. Brian your family member has been accosted and I agree that this and going to a person's home is wrong but has this said union officials been brought up on charges,arrested,convicted? It is only questions that I believe should be clearly answered before you line up the mob to lynch.
emanscott, we can only hope you are in your youth,with time to learn from your mistakes.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Okay Brian I will ask in a different manner, has this attack been approved by this union or is it by individual attackers??? We can all agree that there is no ideal Eden. My point is that this does not seem like a calculated plan by a union but a lark provoked by anger( and maybe intensified by alcohol)


Yet, if say a PM, in a company made the wrong move you would assume it was a calculated plan by the entire company.

Your blind support of all things union is ridiculous.


----------



## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Yet, if say a PM, in a company made the wrong move you would assume it was a calculated plan by the entire company.
> 
> Your blind support of all things union is ridiculous.


The way I see it is that there are 2 sides here. The owners and the workers. You guys need to wake up and realize that you're on the wrong side...you're nothing but a worker. You aint Walmart.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Blind eyed phony Noah said:


> emanscott, we can only hope you are in your youth,with time to learn from your mistakes.


Bad news NoNo. I am not in my youth relatively speaking. If I were I might be young and foolish enough to buy your BS. Nope. Old enough to spot a phony from a mile a way.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Lets put it this way, if you think you are going to demonstrate in front of my house you are terribly wrong. Face mask, bicycle and couple cans of bear pepper spray. See how they like that. That's just a start. Nails, tacs, other tire pucturing items would end up where they are parking. Then they better not threaten me. First sense of being threatened, pepper spray. Next, weapon drawn. Then if they want to keep advancing they get a good dose of lead poisoning.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I wonder why we never hear about the evil lowes and home depot who have put thousands of lumber yards and hardware stores out of business........I bet if walmart were union all the jobs that are "so called " lost when they come to town would never be mentioned and walmart would be a saint not evil.........Walmart pays as well as Mcdonalds and Wendys here so I don't know where the low wages part comes from...


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

*MTA Tax..*

The NYC subway and LIRR have such a budget deficit, they invented and passed a tax to help bail them out..

The Unions had a nice little scam running where a member would go out on 100% disability and they had doctors in their pocket to back up the medical reports..

Just another example of how people know how to play the system and win.. :no:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/gov_hits_mta_payroll_tax_L5M9rM9unS5GOFLILJxYgN


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Okay Brian I will ask in a different manner, has this attack been approved by this union or is it by individual attackers???


According to the reports this and the last one are ran by the SISSY union bosses hiding behind web sites. And that does not matter, if it looks like a turd and spells like a turd the public will take it for or mistake it for a turd and SEIU is doing nothing to reign in their members.




> union officials been brought up on charges,arrested,convicted? It is only questions that I believe should be clearly answered before you line up the mob to lynch.
> .


As noted they are HIDING, not man enough to come out.

It is perception and the union perception in this country is CRAP and association with them puts US ON THE DEFENSIVE. They need to clean up their act.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Nildogg said:


> The way I see it is that there are 2 sides here. The owners and the workers. You guys need to wake up and realize that you're on the wrong side...you're nothing but a worker. You aint Walmart.


I am an owner, evil capitalist that I am.

But my point was not to drag this into a disagreement over Walmart or even union VS open shop. THE UNION IS CRAPPING ON THEMSELVES IN A MARKETPLACE WHERE THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ALREADY HAVE A BAD IMAGE OF UNIONS.

This approcah will not win any friends.


----------



## 2phase5wire (Jan 9, 2011)

brian john said:


> I am an owner, evil capitalist that I am.
> 
> But my point was not to drag this into a disagreement over Walmart or even union VS open shop. *THE UNION IS CRAPPING ON THEMSELVES IN A MARKETPLACE WHERE THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ALREADY HAVE A BAD IMAGE OF UNIONS.*
> 
> This approcah will not win any friends.



It is true. The unions are the scape goats right now. Rightly or wrongly. Market share is a national average of 10%, maybe less. Yet they still have practices that are dated. We should be trying to win over the general public. We are to far to the left and to detached as a group at this point to make any gains in the court of public opinion.

Even in my home town of Philadelphia it's starting to turn sour. Now mind you this is probably the greatest union town in the country. A throw back to day's before de-industrialization. Two GIANT jobs just went non-union. And one of them is right smack dabbed in the middle of Downtown Philadelphia. A job of this size has NEVER in the history of the city gone non-union. This job is a PW job too. There's no cost difference, as the labor rates are the same.

But it's the attitudes that are different. You can agree with me or not. But I can see the reality and know when a ship is sinking. If thing don't change and fast all the gains made by organized labor will be lost in a fraction of the time it was made.

Even in my own local I question the practices and motives of the higher ups. Not to mention the total non-sense that is believed by a majority of the membership.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

2phase5wire said:


> It is true. T
> 
> But it's the attitudes that are different. You can agree with me or not. But I can see the reality and know when a ship is sinking. If thing don't change and fast all the gains made by organized labor will be lost in a fraction of the time it was made.
> .


A little market research and TLC will get further than some of the negative approaches that some are trying.

I heard on the news that the UAW was going to try the negative tactic in the south.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

2phase5wire said:


> Even in my own local I question the practices and motives of the higher ups. Not to mention the total non-sense that is believed by a majority of the membership.


I worked on a job in center city where the customer switch to non-union because the union boys that had been on the job were arrogant in doing things like writing their company name on ladders and material that the *customer* had provided and had his name on. In general he had nothing good to say about 98.

Sounds like they need a change in leadership.


----------



## jusme123 (Dec 27, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Lets put it this way, if you think you are going to demonstrate in front of my house you are terribly wrong. That'Face mask, bicycle and couple cans of bear pepper spray. See how they like that.s just a start. Nails, tacs, other tire pucturing items would end up where they are parking. *Then they better not threaten me.* First sense of being threatened, pepper spray. Next, weapon drawn. Then if they want to keep advancing they get a good dose of lead poisoning.


 ....you are kidding,....... right?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jusme123 said:


> ....you are kidding,....... right?


I would hope not. One of the few things that should be sacred is a family's home.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

jusme123 said:


> ....you are kidding,....... right?


Maybe I wouldn't pepper spray them or put nails out but.. I'd like to think I would.. Here you have a group of people terrorizing you at your private domicile. I have problems with that.

In WA our state gives us the right to defend our property and our persons. If threatened with bodily or other injury in WA we can use lethal force to defend our persons.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

A few union members may have stepped over the bounds. That doesn't reflect the majority. Think the non union sector never has? Look at what the almight white collar financial sector has done to our workforce. Bottom line the Unions agenda is to provide a better standard of living for it's workforce. Nothing wrong with that isn't that what we all wan? Talk about benifits well over the years the unions have decided to stash a little money in benny's instead of the pocket. That seems like a smart thing not a bad thing. Good thing we live in America and have a choice.


----------



## jusme123 (Dec 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> I would hope not. One of the few things that *should be sacred is a family's home.*


I agree with that, what I do not agree with is his approach to rectify it


----------



## jusme123 (Dec 27, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Maybe I wouldn't pepper spray them or put nails out but.. I'd like to think I would..* Here you have a group of people terrorizing you at your private domicile. I have problems with that.*
> 
> In WA our state gives us the right to defend our property and our persons. If threatened with bodily or other injury in WA we can use lethal force to defend our persons.


I also would have a problem with that, I just did not agree with your response. Just call 911 , thats what their paid for, to protect and uphold the law!


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> I heard on the news


What news Brian? Where can it be verified?Just as escott persist to tell his version of the truth, that in itself does not make it true. I believe that anyone should be condemned even union members and or officials for violations as you claim if proven.I am but a mere worker(NO BM) for the IBEW and as all things created by humans, there are errors to be expected.I only ask for a little more proof besides a blog of what you accuse the union of being guilty of.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jusme123 said:


> I also would have a problem with that, I just did not agree with your response. Just call 911 , thats what their paid for, to protect and uphold the law!


During the summer when they were at a home of a member of the World Bank the Montgomery County Police DID NOTHING...FOP?


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Maybe they did nothing cause no laws were broken?


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

jusme123 said:


> I also would have a problem with that, I just did not agree with your response. Just call 911 , thats what their paid for, to protect and uphold the law!


Police are there to arrest people after crimes are committed. You are responsible for yourself and making sure crimes aren't committed against you.

As far as the OP. Unions have their place, I'm not going to be part of the IBEW much longer but I don't think that all unions or the IBEW is a bad entity. I do think that for apprentices a union apprenticeship is a good idea. What you do after that apprenticeship is up to you. 

Honestly I'd go ape **** if I had a group protesting in front of my house over BS.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> What news Brian? Where can it be verified?Just as escott persist to tell his version of the truth, that in itself does not make it true. I believe that anyone should be condemned even union members and or officials for violations as you claim if proven.I am but a mere worker(NO BM) for the IBEW and as all things created by humans, there are errors to be expected.I only ask for a little more proof besides a blog of what you accuse the union of being guilty of.



Does it really matter Noah, does it? It is in black and white print as well as CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC, Local News Channel 8, Telemundo, BBC, NPR, PBS and my old high school newspaper.

I am sorry you are so blinded with your love affair with the union, but TRY to think with an open mind JUST ONCE.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> Maybe they did nothing cause no laws were broken?


Here you decide for yourself.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/19/news/companies/SEIU_Bank_of_America_protest.fortune/

Then tell me how you would really feel if a open shop came after you and your family at home.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

But we digress, Noah, Loose, do either of you condone this? Do either of you feel this HELPED the unions image?


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I've decided they did nothing wrong. I don't feel sorry for bankers.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

nitro71 said:


> Honestly I'd go ape **** if I had a group protesting in front of my house over BS.


Dude, I'd LOVE the attention! It would definitely not work out like the protestors planned.

If you are a scumbag whose number one priority in business is to keep the working americans down, and that's how you make your big bucks, you better expect your job to follow you home. It will only get worse from here on out, until some modicum of prosperity returns.

Brian John, don't expect any group anywhere to protest across the street from your dwelling, you're a special guy, but not that important of a honcho in the grand scheme of things, don't inflate yourself. Still, you're quite a model of success for a high-school graduate, but no match for the american business elite. :thumbup:


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Washington D.C. is the protest capital of the world. They protest in somebody's front yard almost every day.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> Then tell me how you would really feel if a open shop came after you and your family at home.


So are they going after me like the Westboro Baptists go after a soldier's grieving family? Which is more enraging to you?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> Washington D.C. is the protest capital of the world. They protest in somebody's front yard almost every day.


NO WE DON'T, fools do.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> So are they going after me like the Westboro Baptists go after a soldier's grieving family? Which is more enraging to you?


BOTH, because wrong is wrong.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Yeah i like how likened the union protest in that guys front yard to that sicko priest at the soldiers funeral.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I watch a lot of Glenn Beck. SEIU seems to me to be more of a new world order paramilitary outfit than a labor union. Just sayin..... 

Now for the electrical part in order to pass the field justification. Ever notice when union sparky's walk the strike line they don't have their hard hats on? And they are not tied off? Whats up with that?


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> *I watch a lot of Glenn Beck*. SEIU seems to me to be more of a *new world order paramilitary outfit* than a labor union. Just sayin.....


That explains alot! :laughing::laughing: Don't let a dry drunk and ex-coke fiend drag you down into his web of deranged rantings! :laughing:


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> I watch a lot of Glenn Beck. SEIU seems to me to be more of a new world order paramilitary outfit than a labor union. Just sayin.....


He probably said the same thing about AmeriCorps and City Year.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> That explains alot! :laughing::laughing: Don't let a dry drunk and ex-coke fiend drag you down into his web of deranged rantings! :laughing:


Would that be me or Glenn Beck your talking about......:laughing::laughing:


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> Would that be me or Glenn Beck your talking about......:laughing::laughing:


Ahhh... you two share something in common, that explains the connection! :thumbup:


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Does it really matter Noah, does it? It is in black and white print as well as CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC, Local News Channel 8, Telemundo, BBC, NPR, PBS and my old high school newspaper.
> 
> I am sorry you are so blinded with your love affair with the union, but TRY to think with an open mind JUST ONCE.


 Yes I do love and respect the IBEW and as I posted it was created by humans, hence mistakes will be made.You accuse me of being blind yet you had no problem reporting a blog that started this trash and what you posted above is suppose to be proof that this even happened? It almost appears like you as a union member are making attempts to slander unions as a whole because we do not get manic over your blog and want to go out and string up all them union critters.Really brian? Maybe it is just the winter blues? Good luck to you and your efforts, whatever they might be.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Yes I do love and respect the IBEW and as I posted it was created by humans, hence mistakes will be made.You accuse me of being blind yet you had no problem reporting a blog that started this trash and what you posted above is suppose to be proof that this even happened? It almost appears like you as a union member are making attempts to slander unions as a whole because we do not get manic over your blog and want to go out and string up all them union critters.Really brian? Maybe it is just the winter blues? Good luck to you and your efforts, whatever they might be.


So you feel that it is OK for Union thugs to incite a riot in front of some ones private home. right?

http://biggovernment.com/libertychi...rrorizes-teenage-son-of-bank-of-america-exec/
http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/...gainst-private-citizen-on-his-own-front-lawn/
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...art-distrubiting-flyer-devlopers-home-address
http://biggovernment.com/sright/201...-mary-kay-henry-have-you-no-sense-of-decency/


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> So you feel that it is OK for Union thugs to incite a riot in front of some ones private home. right?
> 
> http://biggovernment.com/libertychi...rrorizes-teenage-son-of-bank-of-america-exec/
> http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/...gainst-private-citizen-on-his-own-front-lawn/
> ...


 So a person does not rant and rave to your incitement of a twisted and distorted Blog so you feel the need to lie about that said person? I do not advocate strong arm tactics to organize and or spread the union word (so I say you lied) No matter what moniker you use is your message still the same ? If I fail to agree with you and your views then I am wrong? I did visit most of these blogs you posted and wow it is awesome how so much turmoil can be created from something that may have happened what 7 months ago.Sensationalism at its finest one should be proud.
So from all this media did any one get arrested,maybe a suit filed, or any sort of court action? I only hope that nary a soul suffered any angst. Have a wonderful evening to all.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Zog said:


> Could not agree more with any of that. But the union is not technically doing these, it just comsists of some union members. Either way, it is crossing the line.
> 
> $1,200 for every GM car go to retiree health benifits, that buys a lot of leather seats and nav systems and makes it impossible to compete. I always try to buy quality over price, which often means american made, but not as often as it used to.


 

How much of the cost of every GM vehicle goes to pay for top 100 highest paid execs? That buys a lot of leather seats and nav systems and makes it impossible to compete.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> So a person does not rant and rave to your incitement of a twisted and distorted Blog so you feel the need to lie about that said person? I do not advocate strong arm tactics to organize and or spread the union word (so I say you lied) No matter what moniker you use is your message still the same ? If I fail to agree with you and your views then I am wrong? I did visit most of these blogs you posted and wow it is awesome how so much turmoil can be created from something that may have happened what 7 months ago.Sensationalism at its finest one should be proud.
> So from all this media did any one get arrested,maybe a suit filed, or any sort of court action? I only hope that nary a soul suffered any angst. Have a wonderful evening to all.



Well don't beleave me click here,.. and read for your self...http://www.google.com/search?source...ADRA_enUS404US404&q=union+thug+seiu+wall+mart


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Well don't beleave me click here,.. and read for your self...http://www.google.com/search?source...ADRA_enUS404US404&q=union+thug+seiu+wall+mart


 Well its on google so its all must be true?Who wrote the articles?Who put the blogs out and why?Like I posted before different moniker same MO. Look the thug BS I do not agree with but what have you proved by the propaganda posted by whom? If the aim is to stir anger for something that happened to others(whether they were wronged or not)that is negative in my mind.What I ask would be the solution to the ailment instead of inciting anger.Please help those in need with all the energy spent trying to hate the unions and the world will be a better place.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Yes I do love and respect the IBEW and as I posted it was created by humans, hence mistakes will be made.You accuse me of being blind yet you had no problem reporting a blog that started this trash and what you posted above is suppose to be proof that this even happened? It almost appears like you as a union member are making attempts to slander unions as a whole because we do not get manic over your blog and want to go out and string up all them union critters.Really brian? Maybe it is just the winter blues? Good luck to you and your efforts, whatever they might be.


 
Noah, I LIVE HERE, where the action is. So bury your head and you beloved union will lose again, because as a typical blinded member you CANNOT SEE or understand that PERCEPTION IS everything. The PUBLIC has a extreme dislike of unions. HAted groups that are not connected to the public will lose lose.

Is that you goal? Cover the thugs, cover the bad acts and the union falls.

When I first became a union contractor 26 years ago I only had to justify my decision to open shops, Now I find myself defending my choice to a variety of customers including other union contractors. When I first became a union contractor Washington DC was primarily a union town, Open shops for the most part stayed out of town. The operating engineers were union.

Now, everyone and there brother works in town, union operating engineers are few and far between. Is that your goal, because if it is you'll end as the lone blind electrician on the bench.

And this is not an attack, more of a question. I still doubt you are an electrician, you are the sole member that SEEMS to have no electrical background or expierence.


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Noah, I LVE HERE, where the action is. So bury your head and you beloved union will lose again, because as a typical blinded member you CANNOT SEE or understand that PERCEPTION IS everything. The PUBLIC has a extreme dislike of unions. HAted groups that are not connected to the public will lose lose.
> 
> Is that you goal? Cover the thugs, cover the bad acts and the union falls.
> 
> ...


Once again I will repeat that if some one does not agree with your skewed view then they must be wrong, you prove this with your weakness of an attempt to dishonor my ability. I have nothing to hide I am listed in the phone book in San Bernardino. I am well known by many in this area although not liked by all because of my views( My opinion)
what I accuse you of is sensationalism and twisting the truth to fit your agenda. You have shown none or very little effort to helping the Brotherhood, therefore I call you a member whom takes what you can get and then runs to the other side to blast blogs that are skewed. Look time and time again I have posted that the IBEW was created by humans hence errors will be made. I have personal experiences to where this has happened(usually with one or two persons who over use their authority) (not the union as a whole) so I admit that all make mistakes yet because uncle Ted got mad and went to another's house with a gang of others to intimidate the persons of that house, I will not come to a board such as this and blast the union as a whole and condemn my entire family for the mistakes of others.Brian I would not even have to post this to you if you were a dedicated family member.(I am aware of the situation with your daughter) If you look for bad you will find it.If all this effort was spent on trying to find a solution instead of instilling hate we could get more accomplished.Please have another wonderful day top side dirt.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Once again I will repeat that if some one does not agree with your skewed view then they must be wrong, you prove this with your weakness of an attempt to dishonor my ability. I have nothing to hide I am listed in the phone book in San Bernardino. I am well known by many in this area although not well liked because of my views( My opinion)
> what I accuse you of is sensationalism and twisting the truth to fit your agenda. You have shown none or very little effort to helping the Brotherhood, therefore I call you a member whom takes what you can get and then runs to the other side to blast blogs that are skewed. Look time and time again I have posted that the IBEW was created by humans hence errors will be made. I have person experiences to where this has happened(usually with one or two persons who over use their authority) (not the union as a whole) so I admit that all make mistakes yet because uncle Ted got mad and went to another's house with a gang of others to intimidate the persons of that house, I will not come to a board such as this and blast the union as a whole and condemn my entire family for the mistakes of others.Brian I would not even have to post this to you if you were a dedicated family member.If all this effort was spent on trying to find a solution instead of instilling hate we could get more accomplished.Please have another wonderful day top side dirt.


Noah you are such a one sided union parrot that nothing you say has any value at all.

It is like you are computer that has been programed in one way only and cannot think for yourself in the least.




> (I am aware of the situation with your daughter) If you look for bad you will find it.


You are unbelievable, he did not look for bad it came to him

Take you head out of your rear and look around.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Once again I will repeat that if some one does not agree with your skewed view then they must be wrong, t.


 
I had no agenda I asked a simple question that you keep skirting. 

Last attempt I PROMISE. SEIU right or wrong in their point of view means nothing to my question. 

DO YOU THINK IT BENEFITED the union cause or hurt it in the poll of public opinion?

That was and is my only point.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> I had no agenda I asked a simple question that you keep skirting.
> 
> Last attempt I PROMISE. SEIU right or wrong in their point of view means nothing to my question.
> 
> ...


 
I will answer you again. This thread would be a lot shorter if the original question were just answered.

Brian,

I am not sure if it will hurt or help them. It seems to me that so many people all ready have their minds made up about unions


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> So a person does not rant and rave to your incitement of a twisted and distorted Blog so you feel the need to lie about that said person? I do not advocate strong arm tactics to organize and or spread the union word (so I say you lied) No matter what moniker you use is your message still the same ? If I fail to agree with you and your views then I am wrong? I did visit most of these blogs you posted and wow it is awesome how so much turmoil can be created from something that may have happened what 7 months ago.Sensationalism at its finest one should be proud.
> So from all this media did any one get arrested,maybe a suit filed, or any sort of court action? I only hope that nary a soul suffered any angst. Have a wonderful evening to all.


 
It does not matter if it happend 7 months ago or seven seconds ago ..
To Incite a riot in front of any ones home is way out of bounds regardless of the cause.



> If I fail to agree with you and your views then I am wrong?


Yes that is right.



> (so I say you lied)


If you say so, I really believe it..



> So from all this media did any one get arrested,maybe a suit filed, or any sort of court action?


IDK but you can look it up on google or bing..:whistling2:


----------



## JacksonburgFarmer (Jul 5, 2008)

For crying out loud....cheese and crackers......

I am not a big fan of Walmart. However....just because they know what they are doing, can run a buisness, know now to run a buisness....that should be outlawed??? 

I dont shop there often, but they are succesful becuase they do what they do!

If the Waltons are some of the richest people in the country....well....they built it....they should have it! Who are you to tell them how to run their country??

If you know so much....start your own store, pay all the shelf stockers what you ARE THINKING THEY ARE WORTH RIGHT NOW, and see how this works out for you....need some help??? I ll bet ten bucks on a donut YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR HAPPY ASS!

Not everyone is gonna make $20 an hour.....not gonna happen!


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

JacksonburgFarmer said:


> For crying out loud....cheese and crackers......
> 
> I am not a big fan of Walmart. However....just because they know what they are doing, can run a buisness, know now to run a buisness....that should be outlawed???
> 
> ...


How much of it should they have? As much as they can get? When any entity can garner so much power it should be mindful what it does with it. Nobody here should bitch about the gov't expansion if they're not gonna bitch about corporate expansion. At least I can help vote out a politician.


----------



## blusolstice (Sep 17, 2010)

JacksonburgFarmer said:


> For crying out loud....cheese and crackers......
> 
> I am not a big fan of Walmart. However....just because they know what they are doing, can run a buisness, know now to run a buisness....that should be outlawed???
> 
> ...


you should watch the documentary "Walmart-The High Cost of Low Prices" it's not the marginally underpaid american workers that's the only problem. Walmart contracts extend all over the world and the majority of the neglect shown towards employees is overseas in manufacturing facilities that are for Walmart only distribution. that's how they can offer prices so much lower than other retailers.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

blusolstice said:


> you should watch the documentary "Walmart-The High Cost of Low Prices" it's not the marginally underpaid american workers that's the only problem. Walmart contracts extend all over the world and the majority of the neglect shown towards employees is overseas in manufacturing facilities that are for Walmart only distribution. that's how they can offer prices so much lower than other retailers.


 
And while I agree with you. Check out the youtube video I posted Bullsh*t Walmart Penn and Teller.

As in most things there are two sides to the story. Big corporations can have a dark side as can small business. Check out who was arrested in NYC last week.


----------



## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

Walmart nearly closed one of the biggest factories here because they said we are going to pay THIS MUCH for your product next year, or we buy somewhere else.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

JTMEYER said:


> Walmart nearly closed one of the biggest factories here because they said we are going to pay THIS MUCH for your product next year, or we buy somewhere else.


 
yeah when you are the big dog in a fight you wield power. Not saying this is the best form of business, but it gets the masses what they want.

If the American shopper wanted to close Walmart down, it could be done.

Remember Montgomery Wards?, Heck Sears, K-Mart all slammed by Walmart and at some point they (Walmart) will be next.


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Noah you are such a one sided union parrot that nothing you say has any value at all.
> 
> It is like you are computer that has been programed in one way only and cannot think for yourself in the least.
> 
> ...


 So another moniker with a problem with someone who thinks highly of their family(why?)Now brian wants to condemn those who he claims tried to cause a riot in front of an innocent persons home, by creating mania against those said persons(that is what was meant by if you look for bad) the logic is if all in your world is effected by evil then you have surrounded yourself by evil. How come come someone on this board has not come up with a positive solution to this problem(I believe because
of so much deep concentration on only the evils in life) 
Please if your to inept to make efforts to improve the lives of others then at least enjoy yourself in a positive manner.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> So another moniker with a problem with someone who thinks highly of their family(why?)Now brian wants to condemn those who he claims tried to cause a riot in front of an innocent persons home, by creating mania against those said persons(that is what was meant by if you look for bad) the logic is if all in your world is effected by evil then you have surrounded yourself by evil. How come come someone on this board has not come up with a positive solution to this problem(I believe because
> of so much deep concentration on only the evils in life)
> Please if your to inept to make efforts to improve the lives of others then at least enjoy yourself in a positive manner.


Are you freaking crazy. READ WHAT I ASKED YOU and if at all possible answer the question and quit putting your typical STUPID union spin on it.

I asked you a simple question and you because you are so blind cannot answer the question.

DO YOU THINK THIS HELPED OR HURT THE CAUSE OF UNIONS.

Jeeze, I was NOT trying to fight with you over this I posed a simple question, but you cannot handle that.

Because the answer is something you cannot handle.

See if you can answer this question very simple.

Do you know what a wirenut is?
Do you know how to use one?


----------



## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

brian john said:


> Are you freaking crazy. READ WHAT I ASKED YOU and if at all possible answer the question and quit putting your typical STUPID union spin on it.
> 
> I asked you a simple question and you because you are so blind cannot answer the question.
> 
> ...


I answered every questioned you asked only not the way you wished brian, yes if what you posted were the complete truth that in itself would be negative for the unions.I had several points that you avoided yourself, like who was arrested or sued?Did you call and report anyone for what happened to your daughter? Have you any solution that is positive to these angry assertions you make? As far as how much I know about electrical work (you brian are grasping for a foot hold) I garner that you are self confident in your ability as an electrician to where in doubt about a situation that is your go to mechanism.I will say that from what you reported on this issue it did not include doing electrical work but allot to do with unions(your weakness in my opinion) I will also admit in my 28 years I have never lost a job due to lack of production and or being inept.Once again what does this have to do with this thread? The truth to whom? It is your tale, tell it like you wish.I only hope you have have a wonderful night brian.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> How much of it should they have? As much as they can get?


Yes, absofreakinloutely. :blink:

In my opinion, these are the most outrageous and frightening words spoken by a politician in my lifetime. 

_



I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money.

Click to expand...

_


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> Walmart nearly closed one of the biggest factories here because they said we are going to pay THIS MUCH for your product next year, or we buy somewhere else.


 
That is why Wal mart needs to busted up into different companies. They have a monopoly.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I did okay in school. I do okay in business, but I must have missed something along the way. 

Where is it said that every business that employs people owes each and every person that works for him or her a wage above the Federal Minimum Wage?

Funny thing is, people get so up in arms about Walmart, but say nothing about similar companies that are at least as successful, like Ahold, for instance. Here in the northeast, where Walmart resistance is at its greatest, has allowed Ahold to slip in and secure markets where the locals were distracted by Walmart.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> How much of it should they have? As much as they can get? When any entity can garner so much power it should be mindful what it does with it. Nobody here should bitch about the gov't expansion if they're not gonna bitch about corporate expansion. At least I can help vote out a politician.





> Nobody here should bitch about the gov't expansion............................... if they're not gonna bitch about corporate expansion. At least I can help vote out a politician


.
What??the Government is controlled by the people and we control it by bitching about it..

corporations are private business and when they expaned that creates jobs what they pay is what people are willing to work for so if you take a job that pays $8 per hour thats your own fault not the corporations..


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> yeah when you are the big dog in a fight you wield power. Not saying this is the best form of business, but it gets the masses what they want.
> 
> If the American shopper wanted to close Walmart down, it could be done.
> 
> Remember Montgomery Wards?, Heck Sears, K-Mart all slammed by Walmart and at some point they (Walmart) will be next.


 

What the masses really want is jobs that pay a wage that affords them a home that they can pay off, two decent vehicles, a reasonable expectation that the job will be there for them, and decent healthcare coverage so they don't lose it all if a family member gets seriously sick or injured.. Oh, and enough disposable income to save for retirement.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> What the masses really want is jobs that pay a wage that affords them a home that they can pay off, two decent vehicles, a reasonable expectation that the job will be there for them, and decent healthcare coverage so they don't lose it all if a family member gets seriously sick or injured.. Oh, and enough disposable income to save for retirement.


And cheap stuff from Wal Mart

BTW, thanks for speaking for us. :laughing:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> What the masses really want is jobs that pay a wage that affords them a home that they can pay off, two decent vehicles, a reasonable expectation that the job will be there for them, and decent healthcare coverage so they don't lose it all if a family member gets seriously sick or injured.. Oh, and enough disposable income to save for retirement.


That's the same stuff I want, but I go out and get it on my own. I don't expect anyone to be the guarantor of those wants other than me, myself, and I.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

> How much of it should they have? As much as they can get?





electricmanscott said:


> Yes, absofreakinloutely. :blink:


If that be the case, more power to the unions, they have a lot of ground to cover.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> .
> What??the Government is controlled by the people and we control it by bitching about it..
> 
> corporations are private business and when they expaned that creates jobs what they pay is what people are willing to work for so if you take a job that pays $8 per hour thats your own fault not the corporations..


 

Harry, you are such a republican. It is attitudes like yours that make me wish for republicans to lose elections. By and large, they should not be in public office because they simply want most Americans to be poor serfs and the rest to be extremely wealthy.

People with $8 an hour jobs will NEVER be able to afford my services. I need lots of Americans with good jobs to help grow my business. Wal Mart ain't goona do any business with me. My rates are too high.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> What the masses really want is jobs that pay a wage that affords them a home that they can pay off, two decent vehicles, a reasonable expectation that the job will be there for them, and
> 
> 
> > decent healthcare coverage so they don't lose it all if a family member gets
> ...





> healthcare coverage


Thats your job to get Healthcare not the corporations.,



> What the masses really want is jobs that pay a wage that affords them a home that they can pay off, two decent vehicles, a reasonable expectation that the job will be there for them


Then the masses should not take jobs that don't pay enough
The fact is they do and drive the price of there labor down.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> That's the same stuff I want, but I go out and get it on my own. I don't expect anyone to be the guarantor of those wants other than me, myself, and I.


 
Then everyone should be an electrician? Or involved in the building trades? How is that going to work without a manufacturing base to support the services we offer?


----------



## 2phase5wire (Jan 9, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> That's the same stuff I want, but I go out and get it on my own. I don't expect anyone to be the guarantor of those wants other than me, myself, and I.


Yeah, so every single person should just up and become a business owner.  Seriously, the notion is ridiculous. My father retired from a union job with a pension. That job afforded us health care and the ability to raise his family. I guess being a contractor that makes you a better man then him. Whatever, get bent.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Thats your job to get Healthcare not the corporations.,
> 
> 
> Then the masses should not take jobs that don't pay enough
> The fact is they do and drive the price of there labor down.


 

Your Republican attitude of "I got mine, so eff everyone else" has become too common, and is the reason this country is in an economic depression.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Harry, you are such a republican. It is attitudes like yours that make me wish for republicans to lose elections. By and large, they should not be in public office because they simply want most Americans to be poor serfs and the rest to be extremely wealthy.
> 
> People with $8 an hour jobs will NEVER be able to afford my services. I need lots of Americans with good jobs to help grow my business. Wal Mart ain't goona do any business with me. My rates are too high.





> People with $8 an hour jobs will NEVER be able to afford my services. I need lots of Americans with good jobs to help grow my business. Wal Mart ain't goona do any business with me. My rates are too high


.

Well you should just move up here where most of my costumers make the big bucks..:laughing:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> Harry, you are such a republican. It is attitudes like yours that make me wish for republicans to lose elections. By and large, they should not be in public office because they simply want most Americans to be poor serfs and the rest to be extremely wealthy.
> 
> People with $8 an hour jobs will NEVER be able to afford my services. I need lots of Americans with good jobs to help grow my business. Wal Mart ain't goona do any business with me. My rates are too high.


Your anger is misplaced. You should be upset with the people who have developed so few skills that they're only worth 8 bucks an hour, or angry with the people who settle for 8 bucks an hour when they're worth more at another company. 

There are plenty of higher wage jobs out there. Do a search on any jobs site and sort the results by the annual/hourly salary. People settle for the low hanging fruit and put no effort into the better jobs. Very near my house, there's a company who's been trying for almost two years to hire almost 300 skilled people for 50-70K a year jobs. They're almost done. It was apparently very hard for them to find qualified people to apply. 

Our ancestors crossed oceans looking for opportunity. Lazy people in our generation won't even consider driving to two towns over, or moving to a new house in a county/state with more opportunity. Confounds me.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

2phase5wire said:


> Yeah, so every single person should just up and become a business owner.  Seriously, the notion is ridiculous. My father retired from a union job with a pension. That job afforded us health care and the ability to raise his family. I guess being a contractor that makes you a better man then him. Whatever, get bent.


No. What I'm saying is that you're responsible to make your own keep. If you desire to work for someone else, it's up to you to become sufficiently skilled and relevant in the work place such that you command these things you want.


----------



## 2phase5wire (Jan 9, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Your anger is misplaced. You should be upset with the people who have developed so few skills that they're only worth 8 bucks an hour, or angry with the people who settle for 8 bucks an hour when they're worth more at another company.
> 
> There are plenty of higher wage jobs out there. Do a search on any jobs site and sort the results by the annual/hourly salary. People settle for the low hanging fruit and put no effort into the better jobs. Very near my house, there's a company who's been trying for almost two years to hire almost 300 skilled people for 50-70K a year jobs. They're almost done. It was apparently very hard for them to find qualified people to apply.
> 
> Our ancestors crossed oceans looking for opportunity. Lazy people in our generation won't even consider driving to two towns over, or moving to a new house in a county/state with more opportunity. Confounds me.



You must be delusional.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Your Republican attitude of "I got mine, so eff everyone else" has become too common, and is the reason this country is in an economic depression.


Ya you just woke up from the four year nap .. you might want to go to google and catch Up:laughing:

By the way read Artcle 4 section 4 of the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION....

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A4Sec4.html


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

2phase5wire said:


> You must be delusional.


You must be so inflexible that you want to stay right where you are, doing the same things you've always been doing, and have some corporation deliver to you everything you need and want on a silver platter. You can do that. Go on welfare. :laughing: You've got the welfare mentality, but you're wearing work clothes. :laughing:


----------



## 2phase5wire (Jan 9, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> No. What I'm saying is that you're responsible to make your own keep. If you desire to work for someone else, it's up to you to become sufficiently skilled and relevant in the work place such that you command these things you want.


That's a point that I get and kinda agree with. BUT are difference in philosophy is large. A higher then average wage is one thing to be earned but I feel health care and a retirement should be automatic. IMO it would make for a better country.


----------



## 2phase5wire (Jan 9, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> You must be so inflexible that you want to stay right where you are, doing the same things you've always been doing, and have some corporation deliver to you everything you need and want on a silver platter. You can do that. Go on welfare. :laughing: You've got the welfare mentality, but you're wearing work clothes. :laughing:


Your out of your mind. You have a holier then thou complex. And you arrogance oozes through the monitor. Your really detached from reality. I guess the millions of unemployed are just lazy bums sucking off the system, right?

Cut me a break with that nonsense about the highly skilled jobs that couldn't be filled. I bet you left out the part were they wanted 10 years experience and a college degree for a whopping salary of $15 per hour. :laughing:


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Your anger is misplaced. You should be upset with the people who have developed so few skills that they're only worth 8 bucks an hour, or angry with the people who settle for 8 bucks an hour when they're worth more at another company.
> 
> There are plenty of higher wage jobs out there. Do a search on any jobs site and sort the results by the annual/hourly salary. People settle for the low hanging fruit and put no effort into the better jobs. Very near my house, there's a company who's been trying for almost two years to hire almost 300 skilled people for 50-70K a year jobs. They're almost done. It was apparently very hard for them to find qualified people to apply.
> 
> Our ancestors crossed oceans looking for opportunity. Lazy people in our generation won't even consider driving to two towns over, or moving to a new house in a county/state with more opportunity. Confounds me.


 

Nonsense. A lot of highly skilled and educated people are having to take $8 an hour jobs because that is all they can find when their entire career is stolen from them by offshoring. I drove a truck over the road in '03 and '04, and you would not believe how many educated people are doing that because their careers were taken from them. I have worked in 4 different states and moved a lot more times than that.

The company near you is probably highly selective in skills and experience because they do not want to spend time and money developing their own workforce, when employees are disposable.

Right now, there are at least 6 unemployed people (thats what the government says so it may be double) for each available job. so your point about moving is pointlless. Unless you enjoy some sick game of musical chairs involving all the u-hauls and Ryder trucks in the country.

Do you blame women who are raped for their problems? "hey she was asking for it"


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

2phase5wire said:


> I guess the millions of unemployed are just lazy bums sucking off the system, right?:


I'm saying that there are millions of jobs out there that pay a living wage, but people either don't want to navigate to them -OR- they've done so little with their lives that they're unqualified to do much of anything besides work for some place like WalMart.

Do this experiment... pick any major jobs search site, search for all jobs within a 100 mile radius of any metropolitan area, and then sort the results by pay. You'll find that there's plenty of work out there.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> Nonsense. A lot of highly skilled and educated people are having to take $8 an hour jobs because that is all they can find when their entire career is stolen from them by offshoring. I drove a truck over the road in '03 and '04, and you would not believe how many educated people are doing that because their careers were taken from them. I have worked in 4 different states and moved a lot more times than that.


Their careers were "taken" from them, as if it was something you were owed or due? Dude, get real. Nobody owes you a living. 

There's guys on this very board still complaining that they don't have work, or enough work, when I've PM'd them with job leads for GOOD JOBS. I've heard every excuse under the sun why they can't or won't follow up.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Their careers were "taken" from them, as if it was something you were owed or due? Dude, get real. Nobody owes you a living.
> 
> There's guys on this very board still complaining that they don't have work, or enough work, when I've PM'd them with job leads for GOOD JOBS. I've heard every excuse under the sun why they can't or won't follow up.


 Its the non stop UI checks thats why they won't follow up.


----------



## 2phase5wire (Jan 9, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> *I'm saying that there are millions of jobs out there *that pay a living wage, but people either don't want to navigate to them -OR- they've done so little with their lives that they're unqualified to do much of anything besides work for some place like WalMart.
> 
> Do this experiment... pick any major jobs search site, search for all jobs within a 100 mile radius of any metropolitan area, and then sort the results by pay. You'll find that there's plenty of work out there.


:blink::blink::blink:


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

2phase5wire said:


> Your out of your mind. You have a holier then thou complex. And you arrogance oozes through the monitor. Your really detached from reality. I guess the millions of unemployed are just lazy bums sucking off the system, right?
> 
> Cut me a break with that nonsense about the highly skilled jobs that couldn't be filled. I bet you left out the part were they wanted 10 years experience and a college degree for a whopping salary of $15 per hour. :laughing:


 

2 phase, the conservative Republican ideology is highly autistic and self centered. As I said in a previous post, the Republican attitude of "I got mine, so eff everyone else" is why we are in an economic depression. 

How do I know this? I used to be one of them. I worked hard to prepare for my first career, and went to deep into debt. I the early years, before I knew I was going to be effed and have my carrer taken away, I was arrogant and judgemental of others who were not as lucky as me. Yes, I said it - luck. No matter how hard you work, there is always an element of luck involved in being successful. Now, I know conservatives can't accept that. It is alway me me me , I made it happen.

Look closely at what some of these guys are saying. They do NOT want MOST Americans to be prosperous and have a decent standard of living. Only a few, but they think they are included in that few. The chickens come home to roost someday.


----------



## 2phase5wire (Jan 9, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Its the non stop UI checks thats why they won't follow up.


Your kidding right? that measly $500 a week is keeping people from going back to work.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Do this experiment... pick any major jobs search site, search for all jobs within a 100 mile radius of any metropolitan area, and then sort the results by pay. You'll find that there's plenty of work out there.


 

Yes, I have done that, and the above quote is absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> 2 phase, the conservative Republican ideology is highly autistic and self centered. As I said in a previous post, the Republican attitude of "I got mine, so eff everyone else" is why we are in an economic depression.
> 
> How do I know this? I used to be one of them. I worked hard to prepare for my first career, and went to deep into debt. I the early years, before I knew I was going to be effed and have my carrer taken away, I was arrogant and judgemental of others who were not as lucky as me. Yes, I said it - luck. No matter how hard you work, there is always an element of luck involved in being successful. Now, I know conservatives can't accept that. It is alway me me me , I made it happen.
> 
> Look closely at what some of these guys are saying. They do NOT want MOST Americans to be prosperous and have a decent standard of living. Only a few, but they think they are included in that few. The chickens come home to roost someday.


Thank god you understand politics.. I just can't beleve how selfish i am... 
living in the USA:thumbsup:

By the way your D Friends and BP shut down oil drilling in the gulf coast to drive up the price of Gas there is no other reason for it.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> Yes, I have done that, and the above quote is absolutely ridiculous.


No it's not. I just did it again here about 5 minutes ago. I picked Baltimore. I got thirty-three pages of results that were more than 50K a year within 100 miles of Baltimore zip code 21201


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

2phase5wire said:


> Your kidding right? that measly $500 a week is keeping people from going back to work.


 
It was $361 max. in Illinois three years ago, before taxes for a single person. I think you got $20 or so more if you had kids. For a lot of families that get laid off, their COBRA coverage is well over $1000 a month. Do the math on this guys. Do you really think unemployment is sush a great deal and people do not want to get off of it?


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> It was $361 max. in Illinois three years ago, before taxes for a single person. I think you got $20 or so more if you had kids. For a lot of families that get laid off, their COBRA coverage is well over $1000 a month. Do the math on this guys. Do you really think unemployment is sush a great deal and people do not want to get off of it?


With so many job opportunities out there, I'm struggling to come up with more reasons. 

Why do you think that people aren't filling these good paying jobs that exist in the marketplace? Could it be that they're unqualified for them? Maybe we should reward them with a high paying job with good benefits anyhow?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

2phase5wire said:


> Your kidding right? that measly $500 a week is keeping people from going back to work.


Ahhh Ya there are plenty out there that are taking a free ride..


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> It was $361 max. in Illinois three years ago, before taxes for a single person. I think you got $20 or so more if you had kids. For a lot of families that get laid off, their COBRA coverage is well over $1000 a month. Do the math on this guys. Do you really think unemployment is sush a great deal and people do not want to get off of it?


Again if you health care pay for it your self,,I do so can you.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No it's not. I just did it again here about 5 minutes ago. I picked Baltimore. I got thirty-three pages of results that were more than 50K a year within 100 miles of Baltimore zip code 21201


 

Yes, that proves my point. In a high population area like Baltimore, you only got 33 pages of jobs over $ 50K? Now here come the hard part, this will require some effort. Read the descriptions and requirements for these postions. How many require 10 plus years of experience in that field in addition to the educational requirements? 

Now, here is the really hard part. If electrical work completely disappeared or the goverment brought in foreign workers to replace all of the elctricians in this country, how many of those jobs could you get.



YOU WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR A SINGLE POSITION LISTED IN THOSE 33 PAGES!


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> YOU WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR A SINGLE POSITION LISTED IN THOSE 33 PAGES!


The sky is falling! The sky is falling! 
:laughing::laughing:

Do you have a job, doubleoh7?


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Again if you health care pay for it your self,,I do so can you.


How did you get to be an electrician, when you can't do simple math?


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> Do you have a job, doubleoh7?


 
I have been self employed fo nearly two years.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> Do you have a job, doubleoh7?


 

You can laugh, but there are millions of Americans that are in that position right now. Do you think they will be voting republican in 2012? And, you did not address the following point: 


YOU WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR A SINGLE POSITION LISTED IN THOSE 33 PAGES!


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> I have been self employed fo nearly two years.


Then what are you whining about? Go run for office or something.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> YOU WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR A SINGLE POSITION LISTED IN THOSE 33 PAGES!


Actually, you subtract out electrical work, and I'm qualified for a little over 40 on that list. Doesn't matter anyhow. I'm going to develop world-famous ring bologna and become rich.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Then what are you whining about? Go run for office or something.


 
Whining???

I can see the reality of the mess this country is in. So many of you conservative/republican types can't, because thing are going o.k. for you. Also, because I am not autistic, I possess something called empathy. Millions of Americans are suffering becasue our government and corporate America conspired to take away their means to make a living. Just because someone is self empployed, does not mean it's all biscuits and gravies. I need customers that can afford my services!


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> Whining???
> 
> I can see the reality of the mess this country is in. So many of you conservative/republican types can't, because thing are going o.k. for you. Also, because I am not autistic, I possess something called empathy. Millions of americans are suffering becasue our governem and corporate America conspired to take away their means to make a living. Just because someone is self empployed, does not mean it's all biscuits and gravies. I need customers that afford my services!


I don't care what their malfunction is. Once I perfect it, none of them are getting my bologna recipe.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Actually, you subtract out electrical work, and I'm qualified for a little over 40 on that list. Doesn't matter anyhow. I'm going to develop world-famous ring bologna and become rich.


 
Yeah, well, that's what Americans need. More fast food.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> Yeah, well, that's what Americans need. More fast food.


No. It takes a while to make. You're just jealous because you don't have any world-famous bologna recipes.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No. It takes a while to make. You're just jealous because you don't have any world-famous bologna recipes.


 

I think that I have just worn you down and you are changing the subject. Bologna has anuses and all kinds on nonsense in it.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I got your world-famous bologne,

Right down here!


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I got your world-famous bologne,
> 
> Right down here!


 

I hear thats a Vienna sausage. :laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> How did you get to be an electrician, when you can't do simple math?


I am a Licensed Master Electrician in my state and to pass the test you must be able to do the math.

You keep saying that republicans are the ones that screwed up the Economy for the last three years .. The funny thing about that is the democrats have been in charge since 2007...

So please Check my spelling you just lost your own argument..:laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> No. It takes a while to make. You're just jealous because you don't have any world-famous bologna recipes.


 Don't forget the Grey poupon...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> I am a Licensed Master Electrician in my state and to pass the test you must be able to do the math.
> 
> You keep saying that republicans are the ones that screwed up the Economy for the last three years .. The funny thing about that is the democrats have been in charge since 2007...
> 
> So please Check my spelling you just lost your own argument..:laughing:


 
If you can understand math, why do you believe that people like to be on unemployment?

Republicans and democrats have both been screwing up the economy for over 20 years. I don't play that one party or the other nonsense. The real damage to the economy was done by free trade and illegal immigration. The economy is doomed without the most productive component - manufacturing. Bush 41 was the architect of NAFTA and Bill Clinton signed it into law. Republicans/conservatives (with the exception of Pat Buchanan) have been the biggset proponent of free trade.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

I am going to take a break for a while and enjoy some internet ****. Brian John, sorry these guys hijacked your thread.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> If you can understand math, why do you believe that people like to be on unemployment?
> 
> Republicans and democrats have both been screwing up the economy for over 20 years. I don't play that one party or the other nonsense. The real damage to the economy was done by free trade and illegal immigration. The economy is doomed without the most productive component - manufacturing. Bush 41 was the architect of NAFTA and Bill Clinton signed it into law. Republicans/conservatives (with the exception of Pat Buchanan) have been the biggset proponent of free trade.


Thank god your so well informed..:laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Funny thing is, people get so up in arms about Walmart, but say nothing about similar companies that are at least as successful, like Ahold, for instance.


We do a ton of work for Ahold.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

BBQ said:


> We do a ton of work for Ahold.


 

I've never heard of Ahold. Everyone has heard of Wal Mart unless they live in some backwards place like Arkansas.


----------



## Frank Mc (Nov 7, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> I am a Licensed Master Electrician in my state and to pass the test you must be able to do the math.
> 
> You keep saying that republicans are the ones that screwed up the Economy for the last three years .. The funny thing about that is the democrats have been in charge since 2007...
> 
> So please Check my spelling you just lost your own argument..:laughing:


Harry you cant be serious ...??? Blaming the current mess on Obama...???

Wasnt the damage already done on George Bush,s watch ????........No offence but that guy wasnt exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer..;-)

Frank


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Actually, you subtract out electrical work, and I'm qualified for a little over 40 on that list. Doesn't matter anyhow. I'm going to develop world-famous ring bologna and become rich.


Mark, you are indeed in a class almost by yourself.



doubleoh7 said:


> Whining???
> 
> I can see the reality of the mess this country is in. So many of you conservative/republican types can't, because thing are going o.k. for you. Also, because I am not autistic, I possess something called empathy. Millions of americans are suffering becasue our governem and corporate America conspired to take away their means to make a living. Just because someone is self empployed, does not mean it's all biscuits and gravies. I need customers that afford my services!


You will soon learn to not waste your breath in here.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Frank Mc said:


> Wasnt the damage already done on George Bush,s watch ????........No offence but that guy wasnt exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer..;-)
> 
> Frank


No chit! I lived through it and still can't believe he was elected.... twice!


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Thank god your so well informed..:laughing:


What was it he said that prompted your sarcastic remark? Do you have anything intellectual to say in response to his arguments?


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> We do a ton of work for Ahold.


Me too. Oh no my bad, I've done a tone of work for a _holes_ . :laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

This is a pretty funny thread. Two sides, no compromise. Typical of the country today. On one hand, I am with Marc, the "I am owed <insert entitlement here> mentality" has overtaken society to the point that I don't see it going away and it's pretty disgusting.

NOBODY owes you anything.

At the same time, the notion that one can go out and grab a job on a whim is just an oversimplification of reality.

I have been job searching for over a year and for the most part have come up empty. I am highly qualified, experienced etc but it means squat. The only times I have gotten close were times that I knew somebody at a particular company. I can't imagine being a 50 something year old laid off from a middle management job with a narrow skill set.

That said, I do not feel that I should have my hand held by the governemnt nor is it thier responsibility to take care of me.

I have a friend (Union electrician) that actually makes fun of me because I have too much "pride" to not pay taxes, hide my income and take advantage of government programs.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> This is a pretty funny thread. Two sides, no compromise. Typical of the country today. On one hand, I am with Marc, the "I am owed <insert entitlement here> mentality" has overtaken society to the point that I don't see it going away and it's pretty disgusting.
> 
> NOBODY owes you anything.


This is close to the biggest problem we have in the country, the entitlement mentality.


> At the same time, the notion that one can go out and grab a job on a whim is just an oversimplification of reality.


 Very well said Scott!


> I have been job searching for over a year and for the most part have come up empty. I am highly qualified, experienced etc but it means squat. The only times I have gotten close were times that I knew somebody at a particular company. I can't imagine being a 50 something year old laid off from a middle management job with a narrow skill set.


 I can.


> That said, I do not feel that I should have my hand held by the governemnt nor is it thier responsibility to take care of me.


 YUP!


> I have a friend (Union electrician) that actually makes fun of me because I have too much "pride" to not pay taxes, hide my income and take advantage of government programs.


A union guy has an entitlement mentality? Say it ain't so.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

2phase5wire said:


> Your kidding right? that measly $500 a week is keeping people from going back to work.




I don't know, the illegals are plenty busy in my area. Maybe if there was less welfare and public assistance there might be more people to do what SNOBs cal menial jobs.

I know plenty of people that worked two jobs when I was a kid and electricians that work all the OT they can, to make ends meet or to better their family.

We seriously have become soft and ripe for picking.

A few years back a poll was taken around the world and the richest countries had the biggest amount of unhappy people. When they asked a farmer from China if he was happy, he answered I wake up, I work, I feed my family, what's not to be happy about.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

ked a farmer from China if he was happy said:


> That's how it used to be here.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Frank Mc said:


> Harry you cant be serious ...??? Blaming the current mess on Obama...???
> 
> Wasnt the damage already done on George Bush,s watch ????........No offence but that guy wasnt exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer..;-)
> 
> Frank


 Thats according to your news media not a fact..


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> What was it he said that prompted your sarcastic remark? Do you have anything intellectual to say in response to his arguments?


 I don't think you would understand since you agree with him.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> I love it when people chime in on US politics that don't live in the US.
> 
> The only think you know about the US comes from your news sources which are skewed in one way or another.



And where do you get your news?


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Let's try to keep the thread about unions and not blame Bush or Obama for the world woes. Talk about the issues at hand but leave political affiliations and blame out. I know it is a fine line but... Thanks


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

Wasnt the damage already done on George Bush,s watch ????........No offence but that guy wasnt exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer..;-)


He didn't even belong in the drawer!


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

BBQ said:


> And where do you get your news?


 
I have spent alot of time outside of the CONUS to know that news is very censored and altered outside of our borders.

Blaming the last guy seems to be more popular then trying fix what has been done. 

I wasn't trying to start a news vrs news thing that has nothing to do with the topic,neither does a president that has been out of office for over 2 years.

Do they even have an IBEW in Australia?


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> I have a friend (Union electrician) that actually makes fun of me because I have too much "pride" to not pay taxes, hide my income and take advantage of government programs.


In my opinion, these are all the wrong guys to have _in_ the Union. Idealism only when it benefits them.


----------



## Frank Mc (Nov 7, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> I have spent alot of time outside of the CONUS to know that news is very censored and altered outside of our borders.
> 
> Blaming the last guy seems to be more popular then trying fix what has been done.
> 
> ...


http://www.etu.asn.au/

Frank


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Protestors on someone’s private front lawn don't further the causes they protest for, regardless of who sent them or who's "side" they’re on. The 13 year old banker’s son did nothing to deserve this. I can’t even imagine the terror he was put through.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

backstay said:


> The 13 year old banker’s son did nothing to deserve this. I can’t even imagine the terror he was put through.


I can't even imagine what the kid's of the families whose jobs were sold out from under them to China are going through. Oh yes, it is all related, except nobody gives a DAMN about the American working man.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> I can't even imagine what the kid's of the families whose jobs were sold out from under them to China are going through. Oh yes, it is all related, except nobody gives a DAMN about the American working man.


In other words screw the 13 year old kid for the betterment of you.

Got it.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> I can't even imagine what the kid's of the families whose jobs were sold out from under them to China are going through. Oh yes, it is all related, except nobody gives a DAMN about the American working man.


An a developer that want's to build a Walmart in a neighborhood with no shopping opportunities is responsible for this how?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> I can't even imagine what the kid's of the families whose jobs were sold out from under them to China are going through. Oh yes, it is all related, except nobody gives a DAMN about the American working man.


Maybe their parents went out and got them selves a new job or started their own business..

We are all american working men...:blink:


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

BBQ said:


> In other words screw the 13 year old kid for the betterment of you.


It's a good lesson for the kid. :laughing: 

WTF? To business, children are just another profit center.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> It's a good lesson for the kid. :laughing:
> 
> WTF? To business, children are just another profit center.


I am surprised at your callousness.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

*WAUWATOSA, Wis. -- *While thousands gathered in Madison on Tuesday to protest Gov. Scott Walker's budget, more than 1,000 union members and their supporters demonstrated Tuesday evening in front of the governor's house in Wauwatosa. 

The group met at the AFL-CIO building at Bluemound Road and 63rd Street, where a crowd of several hundred grew rapidly. 

After hearing speeches from a teacher, a healthcare union leader and a minister, the group walked several blocks to the home Walker owns. 

They carried protest signs and chanted "Kill the bill!" Some carried candles. 

"I'm a proud union member. I work at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee. And I'm really, really, really upset at Scott Walker's refusal to negotiate with the union and instead to put a bill forward that would kill our rights," said demonstrator Ava Hernandez. 

The group is protesting the Walker's proposal to sharply scale back the collective bargaining rights of state workers, with the exception of police and firefighters. 

While part of the governor's proposal would require state workers to contribute more to their pensions and insurance plans, demonstrators insisted their concern was about more than money. 

They worried the legislation would weaken their unions. 

"It is about the right of workers to organize and to bargain, not only for their salary but also for working conditions," said teacher Cheryl Brenner. 

"What do they have against people that work for a living? That's what I've never understood," said demonstrator Lloyd Hess. 

"People with everything seem to have something against those of us that just work," said Hess. 

In response to the demonstrations, Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie released a statement, reading in part, "When Governor Walker introduced this bill he noted that the state was broke. That is still the case and he remains resolute in the desire to fix Wisconsin's budget." 

The statement also acknowledged there was a lot of passion on this issue but said what Walker was proposing struck a fair balance.

http://www.wisn.com/r/26878488/detail.html


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

*Group targets Speaker Boehner’s (small-h) house*​ 

When did demonstrating at the private homes of politicians or corporate executives become an acceptable way to voice one’s political opinions?​ 
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...speaker-boehner-s-small-h-house#ixzz1EGmyOF4n​​


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> [
> 
> When did demonstrating at the private homes of politicians or corporate executives become an acceptable way to voice one’s political opinions?​ ]


The final gasp of a dying dinosaur.


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

This country's greed and "me first" attitude is ripping us apart. We can't keep stripping away peoples benefits and salaries without expecting terrible things to occur.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

pjmurph2002 said:


> This country's greed and "me first" attitude is ripping us apart. We can't keep stripping away peoples benefits and salaries without expecting terrible things to occur.


Funny how taking a bigger percent from me(the taxpayer) is not stipping my benefits and salaries.


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

Do you mean paying more in income taxes? I agree with you on that.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

backstay said:


> Funny how taking a bigger percent from me(the taxpayer) is not stipping my benefits and salaries.


 Well said...:thumbup:

This country's greed and "me first" attitude is ripping us apart..

There are thousands of unemployed people in Wisconsin that would be happy to take those jobs of all the teachers that have not been going to work..


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

Where does this end? Who is next ? What is next to be cut or taken away from the middle class? This goes beyond unions and collective bargaining. These politicians are ruining this country.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Income taxes, property taxes, sales tax, when our new gov gets his income tax increase we will have the highest income tax in the US!


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

backstay said:


> Income taxes, property taxes, sales tax, when our new gov gets his income tax increase we will have the highest income tax in the US!


You could move to Mexico, tons of jobs, hardly no taxes, and the liberals there are hiding for their lives.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pjmurph2002 said:


> Where does this end? Who is next ? What is next to be cut or taken away from the middle class? This goes beyond unions and collective bargaining. These politicians are ruining this country.


No they are not..


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

miller_elex said:


> You could move to Mexico, tons of jobs, hardly no taxes, and the liberals there are hiding for their lives.


Typical, as long as your taking money away from someone else it's ok. Just tell then to leave, don't be honest and say you don't care as long as you get your's!


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

backstay said:


> Typical, as long as your taking money away from someone else it's ok. Just tell then to leave, don't be honest and say you don't care as long as you get your's!


I don't care as long as I get mine.

Now, point me towards the free money! :thumbup:

Wall Street, here I come. :laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> I don't care as long as I get mine.
> 
> Now, point me towards the free money! :thumbup:
> 
> Wall Street, here I come. :laughing:


I just Knew you were Cool..:thumbup::laughing:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Wall Street, here I come.


Can I catch a ride? :thumbup:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pjmurph2002 said:


> Where does this end? Who is next ? What is next to be cut or taken away from the middle class? This goes beyond unions and collective bargaining. These politicians are ruining this country.


 Nothing has been taken away from the middle class..


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

I believe we are loosing ground on all fronts and pension reform is just one area that is in focus at this time. It seems to be the hot topic around the country. I don't have a problem with making changes to these plans, but we must honor the agreements we made. To just disolve these pensions and say "sorry" is not the answer. The funding for these plans was in place, the politicians diverted the money and used it on their cronies.


----------



## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Well said...:thumbup:
> 
> This country's greed and "me first" attitude is ripping us apart..
> 
> There are thousands of unemployed people in Wisconsin that would be happy to take those jobs of all the teachers that have not been going to work..


I guess you believe in SCABS.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Sparky3 said:


> I guess you believe in SCABS.


 
Trying to maintain a friendly thread, but the term scab, puts you lower that snail slime IMO.

That is a digusting phrase utilized by small minded people.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

brian john said:


> Trying to maintain a friendly thread, but the term scab, puts you lower that snail slime IMO.
> 
> That is a digusting phrase utilized by small minded people.


In my 15 years in the IBEW, that term was used by most of the members to discribe non-union workers. I have heard many union people say they don't but guys I was there. You're not fooling anyone.:no:


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

brian john said:


> Trying to maintain a friendly thread, but the term scab, puts you lower that snail slime IMO.
> 
> That is a digusting phrase utilized by small minded people.


That is a term I heard for those who crossed the picket line.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> I guess you believe in S.


No .I beileve in the facts. And the people in the state of Wisconsin have spoken. 
So the governer and the state assembly are doing the peoples business.

In the United States we have a constatutinal Republic..Not a Mob Rule Democracy. 

So if you want to control things you have to win the election . 

There are thousands of unemployed people in Wisconsin that would be happy to take those jobs of all the teachers that have not been going to work..


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> No .I beileve in the facts. And the people in the state of Wisconsin have spoken.
> So the governer and the state assembly are doing the peoples business.
> 
> In the United States we have a constatutinal Republic..Not a Mob Rule Democracy.
> ...


Harry, knock it off with your "people have spoken" crap. Your a typical blind lever puller. What ever YOUR party does is right and the will of the people and whatever the other party does is Mob Rule. Get off it all ready. Nobody's spoken and all this is, is a chance for some scum sucker to union bust.

The teachers blow, and so do there unions. BUT taking away rights (that's exactly what they're planning) is not the supposed American way. Your admittedly a one man shop so I wonder........Have you ever even seen a union job site?
(Why all the union hostility?........Seems like more blind devotion)

So Harry, your for taking away peoples rights when it fits your agenda?

Now explain to me how that's "fair and unbiased"?:laughing:

Another thing, In NJ they're talking about taking away the teachers tenure. OK I'm fine with that, welcome to the real world. But they're also talking about paying them according to performance. WTF........Just watch how all these kids grades start magically going up.:laughing: God what a horrible idea, it's like "No child left behind" on steroids.

(or they'll have to create another agency to over see the people who are over seeing the teachers)

Nobody wants to address the real problem, the kids. These kids are spoiled, dirty, no good, no respect, cry baby brats. Just like their Parents. Jeeeezzzz....Thanks a lot baby boomers, way to go......you's f*cked the country up


----------



## DoCJohnny (Feb 16, 2011)

slickvic277 said:


> Another thing, In NJ they're talking about taking away the teachers tenure. OK I'm fine with that, welcome to the real world. But they're also talking about paying them according to performance. WTF........Just watch how all these kids grades start magically going up.:laughing: God what a horrible idea, it's like "No child left behind" on steroids.


I agree with this 100%, get rid of seniority completely. 

There won't be any magic way to raise a child's grades, performance will be based off of standardized testing scored by computer taken during the marking period. Unless a teacher is buying the answers and sneaking it into class to give to the students there will be no way to cheat. In this day and age with the cell phone videos, you know at least one kid would record any foul play, no teacher would risk it.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

DoCJohnny said:


> I agree with this 100%, get rid of seniority completely.
> 
> There won't be any magic way to raise a child's grades, performance will be based off of standardized testing scored by computer taken during the marking period. Unless a teacher is buying the answers and sneaking it into class to give to the students there will be no way to cheat. In this day and age with the cell phone videos, you know at least one kid would record any foul play, no teacher would risk it.



When it comes to money, anythings possible.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Harry, knock it off with your "people have spoken" crap. Your a typical blind lever puller. What ever YOUR party does is right and the will of the people and whatever the other party does is Mob Rule. Get off it all ready. Nobody's spoken and all this is, is a chance for some scum sucker to union bust.
> 
> The teachers blow, and so do there unions. BUT taking away rights (that's exactly what they're planning) is not the supposed American way. Your admittedly a one man shop so I wonder........Have you ever even seen a union job site?
> (Why all the union hostility?........Seems like more blind devotion)
> ...


No ones Rights are being revoked...That would take a constitutional amendment buy the united states congress and would have to be ratified by 3/4's of the states.

No one has a Right to a job,,,But we all have the right to apply for a job opening and convince the perspective employer the we are the best man for the job,,,get the job and maintain that job by doing that job well..

And if we get fired, get over it, get up the next day and find a new job.. 

I have to look for a job every day give the customer a price and if they like the price i get to work....If they don't then i do not have the right to force them to hire me . Thats life.:thumbup:


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

*HARRY304E;385748]*


> No ones Rights are being revoked...That would take a constitutional amendment buy the united states congress and would have to be ratified by 3/4's of the states.


The Bill of Rights and work place "rights" are two different things. Stop trying to be smart, you're not. Not every law OR "Right" is an amendment to the constitution.



> No one has a Right to a job,,,But we all have the right to apply for a job opening and convince the perspective employer the we are the best man for the job,,,get the job and maintain that job by doing that job well..


This has absolutely nothing to do with collective bargaining.
Not a single thing.



> And if we get fired, get over it, get up the next day and find a new job..


Again, not single thing with the right of workers to collective bargain. 



> I have to look for a job every day give the customer a price and if they like the price i get to work....If they don't then i do not have the right to force them to hire me . Thats life.:thumbup:


What in the world are you talking about????

Your just brain dead. I really don't know why I try to have these conversations with you, your more fun in the "off topic" section. Every time we have one of these conversations you just regurgitate tea party dribble.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Actually Harry is on track as some in this country think, it just does not meet your requirements or standards.

Politicians from ALL parties having been giving away other peoples money for years, not it is time to pay the piper, and many will suffer.

Suffering should be at all levels, hell cut NPR, NEA and the Dept of Education for starters, 10% of the budgets of all departments.

Congress should cut their budget by 15% leading by example.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Your just brain dead. I really don't know why I try to have these conversations with you, your more fun in the "off topic" section. Every time we have one of these conversations you just regurgitate tea party dribble.


 Your right i don't think the way you do..We are both free to think for our selves..

The point is the Union does not have the right to go into Residential neighborhoods and incite riots in front of some ones private property and trash the place..

The people of the state of Wisconson have the right to run their state the way they see fit .

If the Union wants to remain in Wisconson then they are going to have to do a better job selling their product.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> If the Union wants to remain in Wisconson then they are going to have to do a better job selling their product.



Based on public perception, the unions lack of good press and the unions inability to control a few members their stock is dropping.


----------



## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> If they don't then i do not have the right to force them to hire me.


And you're telling me this now??? :laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

The_Modifier said:


> And you're telling me this now??? :laughing:


 Whats your question..?


----------



## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Whats your question..?


Harry do you believe in a workers right to collectively bargain with fellow workers for a fair and decent wage, or should that right be taken from them?


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Sparky3 said:


> Harry do you believe in a workers right to collectively bargain with fellow workers for a fair and decent wage, or should that right be taken from them?


No. he doesn't.

Get your boots on, here comes the tea party BS.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> Harry do you believe in a workers right to collectively bargain with fellow workers for a fair and decent wage, or should that right be taken from them?


Read post 255


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Your right i don't think the way you do..We are both free to think for our selves..
> 
> The point is *the Union *
> 
> If *the Union* wants to remain in Wisconson then they are going to have to do a better job selling their product.


Funny how "the union" is to blame. There really isnt such a thing. We are just a bunch of working folk that choose to have a collective voice. Kind of like those brave souls who dumped tea in Boston Harbor. We choose to elect people to represent us. I didn't realize that concept was so vilified in your world.
I was brought up as a flag waving conservative and dont believe the recent far right wing movement represents me. I am a white, Christian, married, straight, parent, taxpayer, small business owner, gun enthusiast, right to life, mortgage paying American. 
Beck, Pailan, Rush, Hanity and all of the book selling, B.S. fear talking entertainers are trying to sell me a load of crap and I aint buying!!
I believe the new wave of brown shirt politics will be short lived and some of you guys will be very embarrassed to discover that you have been lead around by fear mongers and corporate greed.
I like how everyone gets all nostalgic about the good life back in the day. I look back and see how my parents had good paying jobs with healthcare and a pension. 
All of a sudden these same benefits, the benefits and the standard of living they had, the standard of living that built this country, is some kind of parasitic entitlement they should be stripped of. 
I am a real, long term, conservative American and you do not represent me!
Im not buying your brand of tea. You and your "me" generation pals can pound it up your butts. 
Amen :thumbsup:


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Funny how "the union" is to blame. There really isnt such a thing. We are just a bunch of working folk that choose to have a collective voice. Kind of like those brave souls who dumped tea in Boston Harbor. We choose to elect people to represent us. I didn't realize that concept was so vilified in your world.
> I was brought up as a flag waving conservative and dont believe the recent far right wing movement represents me. I am a white, Christian, married, straight, parent, taxpayer, small business owner, gun enthusiast, right to life, mortgage paying American.
> Beck, Pailan, Rush, Hanity and all of the book selling, B.S. fear talking entertainers are trying to sell me a load of crap and I aint buying!!
> I believe the new wave of brown shirt politics will be short lived and some of you guys will be very embarrassed to discover that you have been lead around by fear mongers and corporate greed.
> ...



jrannis for president!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> jrannis for president!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:


Thanks, but I would have to change my last name..:whistling2:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> jrannis for president!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:


jrannis for president!!!!:laughing::laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Funny how "the union" is to blame.
> I like how everyone gets all nostalgic about the good life back in the day. I look back and see how my parents had good paying jobs with healthcare and a pension.
> .
> I am a real, long term, conservative American and you do not represent me!
> ...



Fact is public sector unions and politicians wanting their vote, over spent, most have a much better pension and H&W plan than the top private sector unions. You either pay more taxes, the local government goes bankrupt or someone bites the bullet. Some in DC have said they want to bail out the local governments driving all of us into more debt for the stupidity of some localities.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> most have a much better pension and H&W plan than the top private sector unions..


It's true, the teacher's healthcare package is far, far, above anything I've ever seen even remotely close. It should be called, 'Platinum Cross / Platinum Shield.'

Not saying that out of jealousy, just that, as long as teachers have ideal access to healthcare, we will not have it, because once they come down a few pegs, they will indirectly complain to their students, who will do something about it in the future.


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> When it comes to money, anythings possible.


 
.....and thats the real problem - GREED !!!


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I'm not especially fond of unions. They serve a valuable function in the proper place, but the protections they afford often end up going far beyond ensuring a safe and fair work environment.

That being said, the unions in Wisconsin are being scapegoated, pure and simple. The fiscal crisis wasn't caused by unions. They could completely wipe out the unions in that state and they'd still be in debt. I don't like this whole union antipathy. People standing around screaming about "Unions are preventing us from competing in the foreign market!" The only way to evenly compete in the foreign market is to remove all corporate regulation and work your employees like slaves, which is damn similar to what a lot of companies in China are doing.

We are in a race to the bottom.

Why the hell would we want to go out of our way to make the quality of living worse for the working- and middle-class in this country? The folks at the top keep amassing more power and wealth, and the people at the bottom keep getting poorer, and for some reason there are huge portions of our countrymen that have no problem with that, even though they aren't very far from the bottom themselves. It boggles my mind.

The power of collective-bargaining is not the enemy here, not by a long shot; if we keep progressing down this road the collective power of workers might be the only power we find ourselves with.

-John


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Government Unions are scary and should not exist. Take a look at NYC, Nassau and suffolk NY. Police, garbage, Social, county. We are being bled to death in taxes to pay for lifetime benefits, retirements, disabilities , and sweet compensation packages. All the screw ups get promoted and a raise. real ugly thing the union.


----------



## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Government Unions are scary and should not exist. Take a look at NYC, Nassau and suffolk NY. Police, garbage, Social, county. We are being bled to death in taxes to pay for lifetime benefits, retirements, disabilities , and sweet compensation packages. All the screw ups get promoted and a raise. real ugly thing the union.


These union workers your talking about don't they pay taxes to? I guess it save to say your not from NYC.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> These union workers your talking about don't they pay taxes to? I guess it save to say your not from NYC.


Wrong Island aka ****hole . I don't care for this place, only the money they spend here. I'd rather be in union free PA.


----------



## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Wrong Island aka ****hole . I don't care for this place, only the money they spend here. I'd rather be in union free PA.


Luv or leave it!


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> Luv or leave it!


Milk it for all you can, crap on it and then leave it.NY sux


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Government Unions are scary and should not exist. Take a look at NYC, Nassau and suffolk NY. Police, garbage, Social, county. We are being bled to death in taxes to pay for lifetime benefits, retirements, disabilities , and sweet compensation packages. All the screw ups get promoted and a raise. real ugly thing the union.


Federal government unions are next to useless and powerless. We get very little from them. I have belonged to my union all these years only for the workman comp lawyers that are available. Were I work they almost refuse to pay workman's comp. 
We just had an older welder who died of lead blood poising after years of working with no protection. They approved his claim 3 days after his death.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Wirenuting said:


> Federal government unions are next to useless and powerless. We get very little from them. I have belonged to my union all these years only for the workman comp lawyers that are available. Were I work they almost refuse to pay workman's comp.
> We just had an older welder who died of lead blood poising after years of working with no protection. They approved his claim 3 days after his death.


City and county unions are card Blanche out here, especially for cops. They get 3/4 and full lifetime benefits from simple sluip and falls and accidents. We got one of them on lifetime disability playing licensed electrician hacking things up out here. The locals out here have it sweet on the taxpayers dime.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> City and county unions are card Blanche out here, especially for cops. They get 3/4 and full lifetime benefits from simple sluip and falls and accidents. We got one of them on lifetime disability playing licensed electrician hacking things up out here. The locals out here have it sweet on the taxpayers dime.


My wife also works for the Feds with me. 
But she has been real sick the past two years. I want her to medically retire but we need a diagnosis first. She can only work 12 hours a week and feels bad cause we skipped our anniversary and Christmas to save money. 
She has had a rough few weeks and is mad at me today. Her birthday is tomorrow and She is mad cause I spent a few hours today in my basement shop. 
I was trying to wrap her present and I suck at it. Gave up after awhile. Been saving my money all year and thought I could surprise her. Heck I'm up to my ears in peanut butter lunches. LoL
Hope she likes it.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Wirenuting said:


> My wife also works for the Feds with me.
> But she has been real sick the past two years. I want her to medically retire but we need a diagnosis first. She can only work 12 hours a week and feels bad cause we skipped our anniversary and Christmas to save money.
> She has had a rough few weeks and is mad at me today. Her birthday is tomorrow and She is mad cause I spent a few hours today in my basement shop.
> I was trying to wrap her present and I suck at it. Gave up after awhile. Been saving my money all year and thought I could surprise her. Heck I'm up to my ears in peanut butter lunches. LoL
> Hope she likes it.


Nice gift. The feds do not take as good of care of their employees as state and county, and that all depends on your geographical location. New york is famous for sweetheart deals made behind closed doors with the unions. We have one village PD(Malverne) that has vacation/double time days of a holiday that does not even exist. It's really crazy, civil service here is criminal service.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks. And Monday for lunch I plan to buy some jelly to go with my peanut butter sandwich.


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

..............


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

GREED strikes again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/41655758#41655758


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

pjmurph2002 said:


> GREED strikes again.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/41655758#41655758


If you like that, you will also enjoy this.

http://robertreich.org/

I stand by my accusation of class warfare and politicians are corrupt (both sides).

I saw her show the night this aired, and the next morning I watch morning Joe and the whole thing was presented differently. Joe said it was about time someone took on the greedy unions.

It's amazing to see how the same event can be presented in different ways.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> If you like that, you will also enjoy this.
> 
> http://robertreich.org/
> 
> ...


 
If You beileve anything tha robert reich has to say then you are a lost couse..


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> If You beileve anything tha robert reich has to say then you are a lost couse..


Robert is a very left wing liberal. A bit too far for me. That does not mean I should ignore what he has to say. He has gone on record saying one of the biggest problems we have in this country is that we don't pay our workers enough to purchase the goods we can produce. Now, that makes a lot of sense to me, does that make me a lost couse (I mean cause)?

He also has said Republicans have done a masterful job over the last thirty years convincing the public that any tax increase on the top is equivalent to a tax increase on everyone — selling the snake oil of “trickle down economics” and the patent lie that most middle-class people will eventually become millionaires. I tend to agree, does that make me a lost cause?

He also writes "Finally, there are some who say my proposal doesn’t stand a chance because the rich have too much political power. It’s true that as income and wealth have moved to the top, political clout has risen to the top as well." I think he's spot on about who has the political clout.

Harry, I thought you were open minded.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> If You beileve anything tha robert reich has to say then you are a lost couse..


And this guy was in charge of the whole labor department.. :no:

Just how many white skilled construction workers are sitting around waiting for jobs the stimulus money was suppose to bring?? :blink:

Since when is it OK for a government official to use race as a factor where federal money goes..

I hope the Union halls have the clip sent to all its member who can still afford a computer.. :no:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> HARRY304E said:
> 
> 
> > If You beileve anything tha robert reich has to say then you are a lost couse..
> ...


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> *HARRY304E;387670*]
> Yes that is right and that is because taxes are too high which cause the cost of goods and services to increace..


I hope you were blowin this horn when the Republicans were in office.




> Thats right they have thankfully they are trying to help the little guy..:thumbup:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:




> The rich have allways been in charge..I don't know of any poltician that is just middle class do you..


You don't see this as a problem?



> One side has gotten Rich through raising taxes on the rich and poor.
> 
> And one side has gotten rich by creating big corporations that employ the marjority of the people..:thumbup:I think they are better rich people then the first group of rich people...



You truly are a tard'.:thumbup:



I am,,,but not to him and the video says all you need to know about him...:thumbsup:[/quote]


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> *HARRY304E;387670*]
> Yes that is right and that is because taxes are too high which cause the cost of goods and services to increace..


I hope you were blowin this horn when the Republicans were in office.




> Thats right they have thankfully they are trying to help the little guy..:thumbup:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:




> The rich have allways been in charge..I don't know of any poltician that is just middle class do you..


You don't see this as a problem?



> One side has gotten Rich through raising taxes on the rich and poor.
> 
> And one side has gotten rich by creating big corporations that employ the marjority of the people..:thumbup:I think they are better rich people then the first group of rich people...


You truly are a tard'.:thumbup:





> I am


No. No your not.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> I hope you were blowin this horn when the Republicans were in office.:laughing:You don't see this as a problem?
> :thumbsup:


[/quote]

Thats how it works the rich have allways had all the power...laws of the jungle..


> I hope you were blowin this horn when the Republicans were in office.


The Unemployment rate was 4% when they were in office...:thumbup:

10% now that the tax the rich , rich people are in charge..

Gee a wonder who is better..:laughing::laughing:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

*Harry Harry Harry*

Since you are praising ex President Bush, here are a few pieces of information on his terms.

The Bush years -- then and now
From NBC's Mark Murray
With President Bush set to leave the White House less than two weeks from now, here's a "Then and Now" to show what the United States looked like when Bush was entering office and what it looks like now as he's leaving. The "Then" is the best-available figure as Bush was taking office in 2001. The "Now" is the most recent figure.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
Then: 4.2% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, January 2001)
Now: 6.7% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, November 2008)

DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE
Then: 10,587 (close of Friday, Jan. 19, 2001)
Now: 9,015 (close of Tuesday, Jan. 6, 2009)

BUSH FAVORABILITY RATING
Then: 50% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
Now: 31% (12/08 NBC/WSJ poll)

CHENEY FAVORABILITY RATING
Then: 49% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
Now: 21% (12/08 NBC/WSJ poll)

CONGRESS APPROVAL RATING
Then: 48% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
Now: 21% (12/08 NBC/WSJ poll)

SATISFIED WITH THE NATION'S DIRECTION
Then: 45% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
Now: 26% (12/08 NBC/WSJ poll)

CONSUMER CONFIDENCE (1985=100)
Then: 115.7 (Conference Board, January 2001)
Now: 38.0, which is an all-time low (Conference Board, December 2008)

FAMILIES LIVING IN POVERTY
Then: 6.4 million (Census numbers for 2000)
Now: 7.6 million (Census numbers for 2007 -- most recent numbers available)

AMERICANS WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE
Then: 39.8 million (Census numbers for 2000)
Now: 45.7 million (Census numbers for 2007 -- most recent available)

U.S. BUDGET
Then: +236.2 billion (2000, Congressional Budget Office)
Now: -$1.2 trillion (projected figure for 2009, Congressional Budget Office)

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2009/01/07/4426625-the-bush-years-then-and-now


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Since you are praising ex President Bush, here are a few pieces of information on his terms.
> 
> The Bush years -- then and now
> From NBC's Mark Murray
> ...


 
Thanks NBC is not on our side and no longer a news agency it is run by nuts...:laughing:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

*One more Harry*

http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2009/09/bush-left-the-economy-in-shambles.html



> When George Bush took office, he inherited Clinton's unemployment number, 4%. When he left office, in January 2009, the unemployment rate stood at 7.2% and was skyrocketing. The economy was hemorrhaging 600,000 jobs per month. Today, unofficial unemployment stands at 9.7%, the second highest rate since the Great Depression.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> Thats how it works the rich have allways had all the power...laws of the jungle..
> 
> 
> The Unemployment rate was 4% when they were in office...:thumbup:
> ...


I'll ansewr this when you learn how to multi-quote.



HARRY304E said:


> Thanks NBC is not on our side and no longer a news agency it is run by nuts...:laughing:


I bet if Fox printed it, it would be true.

You don't realllly think Bush, did a good job.....do you?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2009/09/bush-left-the-economy-in-shambles.html



Again the ecomy was fine untill the bad rich people took over congress in 2007..that is the fact..

Your last two posts is proof that you do not under stand how our Gov works..

Good night...


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> I'll ansewr this when you learn how to multi-quote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again this is a power between two sets of Rich poeple..Good ones and bad ones..

When the bad ones win we suffer anthat we have since 2007.

When the good ones win we all win...lets just let it go..:thumbsup:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> You don't realllly think Bush, did a good job.....do you?


I think he really does. I used to think he was just a jester, but I'm starting to believe he really has bought into that line. :blink:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I think he really does. I used to think he was just a jester, but I'm starting to believe he really has bought into that line. :blink:


Lou just let it go...:thumbsup:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Lou just let it go...:thumbsup:


Nite Harry, sleep tight. :thumbsup:


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Good night...


Nighty, night sleepy head. 



HARRY304E said:


> ...lets just let it go..:thumbsup:


No prob, Harry.



hardworkingstiff said:


> I think he really does. I used to think he was just a jester, but I'm starting to believe he really has bought into that line. :blink:


No doubt, he has.


----------



## local5wireslayer (Feb 24, 2011)

brian john said:


> This move (as reported on several local news stations) is supported and funded by SEIU Service Employees International Union.
> 
> http://walmartfreedc.org/
> 
> ...


I personally think union or non union depends on location 

I live in pittsburgh... it's mostly union... plus our apprenticeship is 5 years long... how do the other trade schools expect you to learn everything in 18 months... we get a better pay and less hazardous work than non union, not that we puss out on the hard work.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

local5wireslayer said:


> I personally think union or non union depends on location
> 
> I live in pittsburgh... it's mostly union... plus our apprenticeship is 5 years long... how do the other trade schools expect you to learn everything in 18 months... we get a better pay and less hazardous work than non union, not that we puss out on the hard work.


I never went to any apprenticeship school. I learned everything in the field and self study.


----------



## local5wireslayer (Feb 24, 2011)

brian john said:


> I never went to any apprenticeship school. I learned everything in the field and self study.


Did u take the test for your certification?


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

local5wireslayer said:


> I personally think union or non union depends on location
> 
> I live in pittsburgh... it's mostly union... plus our apprenticeship is 5 years long... how do the other trade schools expect you to learn everything in 18 months... we get a better pay and less hazardous work than non union, not that we puss out on the hard work.


According to that lovely IO video Pitts got less then 30% market share.:whistling2:


----------



## local5wireslayer (Feb 24, 2011)

slickvic277 said:


> According to that lovely IO video Pitts got less then 30% market share.:whistling2:


What's that mean when is comes to amount of work? Im not being a smartass im just not sure


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

local5wireslayer said:


> What's that mean when is comes to amount of work? Im not being a smartass im just not sure



It means the non-union is kicking your ass up and down the street in market share.

OR for every 100 jobs going on, the local only has 30.

I was kinda being a smart ass myself. Sorry. Just that you said that in Pitt the work is mostly union and it's not. 

A sad reality, according to the IO anyways.


----------



## local5wireslayer (Feb 24, 2011)

slickvic277 said:


> It means the non-union is kicking your ass up and down the street in market share.
> 
> OR for every 100 jobs going on, the local only has 30.
> 
> ...


Well that sucks... their must be a ton of work considering our book is pretty empty


----------



## vickieB (Feb 21, 2011)

miller_elex said:


> WAL-MART is the way of the world.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that 90% of the money that enters that place comes from a gubbamint check, dope-dealer's pocket, or rat-contractor's payroll.
> 
> People on the right are paranoid of FEMA death-camps and gubbamint snooping, people on the left are paranoid that walmart tactics will wipe out all small local business and sustainability, who is living in reality now??


Too funny so true.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

local5wireslayer said:


> Well that sucks... their must be a ton of work considering our book is pretty empty


Which book?


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> Which book?


Probably the half-watt book.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Probably the half-watt book.



Local 5 has more books then a library.

http://www.ibew5.org/manpower/manpower.htm

WTF


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

local5wireslayer said:


> Did u take the test for your certification?


1st license at 2.5 years when I was 20, first masters at 22. I have had certifications (NETA, IR) over the years and taken some courses.


----------



## local5wireslayer (Feb 24, 2011)

slickvic277 said:


> Local 5 has more books then a library.
> 
> http://www.ibew5.org/manpower/manpower.htm
> 
> WTF


So true... its kinda screwy...


----------

