# Bosch Dishwasher



## MechanicalDVR

Not the only issue with them. They basically fill the entire under cabinet space and they are rough for getting your fingers into the j box underneath if you hardwire them. There is a small channel with no room for error to bring your cable in.


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## Going_Commando

MechanicalDVR said:


> Not the only issue with them. They basically fill the entire under cabinet space and they are rough for getting your fingers into the j box underneath if you hardwire them. There is a small channel with no room for error to bring your cable in.


We dont hardwire dishwashers anymore. We always put cords on them and put a receptacle in an adjacent cabinet, normally the sink base.


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## Going_Commando

Dennis, that is a really strange setup. I dont't really see the point either. You'd have to put a switch at the countertop to be the disconnecting means, and that is just stupid.


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## MikeFL

He could put the switch under the sink where he otherwise would have installed the receptacle.


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## Dennis Alwon

I heard but do not know if it is true , that you can order this with a male molded plug at the end instead of a jb. I just think it is strange that they would send these out like this.

Years ago electricians would put a receptacle behind the dishwasher and put a cord and plug on the dishwasher. I don't know why that passed but it did. I used to float a switch under the dishwasher in a jb but now there is no room for that either. Technically that wasn't compliant either since the switch box wasn't fastened.

Now I put a box under the sink and put a tail ut to the dishwasher. If the unit comes cord and plug then I make the outlet box a receptacle otherwise I install a switch under the sink in the jb and use the whip to direct wire the dishwasher.

I had not seen these but I am not sure if it is compliant to disconnect the cord on the unit shown and direct wire it...


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## macmikeman

If you read the directions that comes with that, they want you to cut a hole in the side of the adjoining cabinet large enough to pass that monstrosity between them. And since when did they come with 48'' cords? All the ones I got stuck with had only 24'' ones, useful only if the sink is on the same side of the dishwasher as the proprietary receptacle that the thing plugs into at the dishwasher end . Fine example of what is becoming of Germans and their new world order malarky.


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## HackWork

Dennis, maybe we are on different pages here.

Instead of the old way to hardwire a cord into the junction box, Bosch has a receptacle. Then you buy the Bosch cord with a male molex (or similar) style plug that you simply attach to the receptacle on the DW. 

In addition to the plug&cord, you can buy a cord with a junction box on the end, as you showed in your opening post. This connects to the DW the same way.

Now you are asking about the disconnect. All you have to do to cut the power is pull out that molex plug that attaches to the dishwasher, just reach in from underneath.


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## macmikeman

Jrzy said:


> Dennis, maybe we are on different pages here.
> 
> Instead of the old way to hardwire a cord into the junction box, Bosch has a receptacle. Then you buy the Bosch cord with a male molex (or similar) style plug that you simply attach to the receptacle on the DW.
> 
> In addition to the plug&cord, you can buy a cord with a junction box on the end, as you showed in your opening post. This connects to the DW the same way.
> 
> Now you are asking about the disconnect. All you have to do to cut the power is pull out that molex plug that attaches to the dishwasher, just reach in from underneath.


There is no space at all under most Bosch dishwashers. There will be no reaching into anyplace.


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## macmikeman

This whole thread is unfair. Dennis is using us to test the water with his toe. He also posted it at Mike Holt so he could get some real answers.......


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## Dennis Alwon

Jrzy said:


> Dennis, maybe we are on different pages here.
> 
> Instead of the old way to hardwire a cord into the junction box, Bosch has a receptacle. Then you buy the Bosch cord with a male molex (or similar) style plug that you simply attach to the receptacle on the DW.
> 
> In addition to the plug&cord, you can buy a cord with a junction box on the end, as you showed in your opening post. This connects to the DW the same way.
> 
> Now you are asking about the disconnect. All you have to do to cut the power is pull out that molex plug that attaches to the dishwasher, just reach in from underneath.


Yes you can get a cord with a male end but I don't know why that has to be a special order-- end of job dishwasher comes in and now you have to wait for the part and spend more money. I just don't see the point of the box.


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## Dennis Alwon

macmikeman said:


> This whole thread is unfair. Dennis is using us to test the water with his toe. He also posted it at Mike Holt so he could get some real answers.......


Not really-- this forum is more active at times and some here may have dealt with it. This is the first I have seen of it.

You are always trying to start trouble-- you're banned sucker---:laughing:


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## HackWork

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yes you can get a cord with a male end but I don't know why that has to be a special order-- end of job dishwasher comes in and now you have to wait for the part and spend more money. I just don't see the point of the box.


What about the other part of my post (which was the main point of it, not buying a cord&plug)? I know you never read my entire posts. Please go back and do so now.


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## Dennis Alwon

Jrzy said:


> What about the other part of my post (which was the main point of it, not buying a cord&plug)? I know you never read my entire posts. Please go back and do so now.


You're a PITA too.... I thought that part was a joke

Have you ever wired a Bosch???? There is about 1/2" between the bottom of the dishwasher and the floor.


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## HackWork

Dennis, I wasn't aware of that. 

So buy a cord and plug like you would with any other dishwasher. You could buy a cord and plug to go into that junction box as well, the instructions show it that way.


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## lighterup

Dennis Alwon said:


> Not really-- this forum is more active at times and some here may have dealt with it. This is the first I have seen of it.
> 
> You are always trying to start trouble-- you're banned sucker---:laughing:


Dennis . I've dealt with this product many times.
The plumber mounts that box next to the outlet receptacle I rough-in which
is under the sink. The diswashers USUALLY are installed right next to the sink. 

(The way I do it , the circuit is dedicated for the dishwasher and disposal.
I rough in an outlet receptacle under the sink that is half switched. The half
switched side comes from the single pole switch above to switch the disposal.

The J box has terminations inside it. Just install plug & cord for disposal to 
the 1/2" knock out on the Bosch j-box and plug it in to the hot side of the 1/2
switched receptacle.


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## Barjack

On most of our kitchen remodels, we end up trimming out before the plumber is done.

However, the appliances are usually on site.

I don't know if you can see it from the OP's pic, but they have their own proprietary plug on the end of that cord that plugs into the Bosch DW. We usually unplug that from the DW and mount that box with our own cord end to be plugged into the receptacle under the sink. We leave everything under the sink, and the plumber drills his holes and plugs everything in.


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## Dennis Alwon

Jrzy said:


> Dennis, I wasn't aware of that.
> 
> So buy a cord and plug like you would with any other dishwasher. You could buy a cord and plug to go into that junction box as well, the instructions show it that way.


Yes, I mentioned that earlier but they send the dishwasher as shown. You have to make a special purchase for he male plug end. Usually the dishwasher is on site at the end of the job. Hold up the job to order another cord.... I just thing it is BS


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## HackWork

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yes, I mentioned that earlier but they send the dishwasher as shown. You have to make a special purchase for he male plug end. Usually the dishwasher is on site at the end of the job. Hold up the job to order another cord.... I just thing it is BS


How is that different than any other dishwasher, Dennis?


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## Dennis Alwon

Barjack said:


> We usually unplug that from the DW and mount *that box* with our own cord end to be plugged into the receptacle under the sink. We leave everything under the sink, and the plumber drills his holes and plugs everything in.


Not sure what you have done here but you can't remove the modular plug not the jb, IMO otherwise the listing is compromised

I would install the jb given and mount it under the sink. I would take a whip from that to my switch that is under the sink and then were done. The Bosch units used to come with cord and plug and that was great- very easy


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## Dennis Alwon

lighterup said:


> Dennis . I've dealt with this product many times.
> The plumber mounts that box next to the outlet receptacle I rough-in which
> is under the sink. The diswashers USUALLY are installed right next to the sink.
> 
> (The way I do it , the circuit is dedicated for the dishwasher and disposal.
> I rough in an outlet receptacle under the sink that is half switched. The half
> switched side comes from the single pole switch above to switch the disposal.
> 
> The J box has terminations inside it. Just install plug & cord for disposal to
> the 1/2" knock out on the Bosch j-box and plug it in to the hot side of the 1/2
> switched receptacle.


That is basically what I would do but I would have the switch under the sink. Adding a cord and plug at the given jb is not compliant imo.



NEC said:


> 422.16(B)](2) Built-in Dishwashers and Trash Compactors. Built-in
> dishwashers and trash compactors shall be permitted to be
> cord-and-plug-connected with a flexible cord *identified as
> suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of
> the appliance manufacturer where all of the following conditions
> are met:*
> (1) The flexible cord shall be terminated with a groundingtype
> attachment plug.
> Exception: A listed dishwasher or trash compactor distinctly
> marked to identify it as protected by a system of double insulation,
> or its equivalent, shall not be required to be terminated
> with a grounding-type attachment plug.
> (2) The length of the cord shall be 0.9 m to 1.2 m (3 ft to
> 4 ft) measured from the face of the attachment plug to
> the plane of the rear of the appliance.
> (3) Receptacles shall be located to avoid physical damage
> to the flexible cord.
> (4) The receptacle shall be located in the space occupied
> by the appliance or adjacent thereto.



Also 400.7 may come into play


> 400.7 Uses Permitted.
> (A) Uses. Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for
> the following:
> (1) Pendants
> (2) Wiring of luminaires
> (3) Connection of portable luminaires, portable and mobile
> signs, or appliances
> (4) Elevator cables
> (5) Wiring of cranes and hoists
> (6) Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent
> interchange
> (7) Prevention of the transmission of noise or vibration
> (8) Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical
> connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal
> for maintenance and repair, and the appliance is
> intended or identified for flexible cord connection
> (9) Connection of moving parts
> (10) Where specifically permitted elsewhere in this Code


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## drewsserviceco

He's not saying to order the Bosch male plug, but to instal the standard molded male plug from Home Depot into the Bosch jbox and move onto more pressing matters.


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## Barjack

Dennis Alwon said:


> Not sure what you have done here but you can't remove the modular plug not the jb, IMO otherwise the listing is compromised
> 
> I would install the jb given and mount it under the sink. I would take a whip from that to my switch that is under the sink and then were done. The Bosch units used to come with cord and plug and that was great- very easy


That cord/jbox on the Bosch DW's I've wired for are removable from the DW. The part that physically removes from the DW is Bosch's own proprietary plug.










I attach a whip to that, mount the jbox under the sink and let the plumber to the rest.


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## HackWork

Dennis, if you actually read my posts for ONCE, you would see that adding a cord and plug to the given JB is what Bosch says to do...



Jrzy said:


> Dennis, I wasn't aware of that.
> 
> So buy a cord and plug like you would with any other dishwasher. *You could buy a cord and plug to go into that junction box as well, the instructions show it that way.*


Just to reiterate, if you look at the instructions, they show the use of that included junction box with a cord&plug as Method A. Method B would be hardwiring that junction box, which would require the switch for a disconnect.


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## Going_Commando

Since we are on the topic of dishwashers, the past few that I have done have the little tiny junction box that I make the appliance cord into. Then, on the side of the tiny junction box on the dishwasher is a little molex plug. Why the heck cant I hardwire the dishwasher with romex, and call that molex plug the disconnecting means within sight if someone has to work on the dishwasher?


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## Barjack

Going_Commando said:


> Since we are on the topic of dishwashers, the past few that I have done have the little tiny junction box that I make the appliance cord into. Then, on the side of the tiny junction box on the dishwasher is a little molex plug. Why the heck cant I hardwire the dishwasher with romex, and call that molex plug the disconnecting means within sight if someone has to work on the dishwasher?


It sounds kind of iffy......

I just think of having to lay down to get to the connection, then grab that "plug", that may have the wires slip out, under a damp, leaking dishwasher.

It also wouldn't be legal.



> *422.16(B)](2) Built-in Dishwashers and Trash Compactors.* Built-in
> dishwashers and trash compactors shall be permitted to be
> cord-and-plug-connected with a flexible cord identified as
> suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of
> the appliance manufacturer where all of the following conditions
> are met:
> (1) The flexible cord shall be terminated with a groundingtype
> attachment plug.
> Exception: A listed dishwasher or trash compactor distinctly
> marked to identify it as protected by a system of double insulation,
> or its equivalent, shall not be required to be terminated
> with a grounding-type attachment plug.
> (2) The length of the cord shall be 0.9 m to 1.2 m (3 ft to
> 4 ft) measured from the face of the attachment plug to
> the plane of the rear of the appliance.
> (3) Receptacles shall be located to avoid physical damage
> to the flexible cord.
> (4) The receptacle shall be located in the space occupied
> by the appliance or adjacent thereto.


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## PlugsAndLights

I save time by not giving a s$!t about a disconnect for a DW. Want to 
disconnect? Turn off the breaker. Standard protocol around here. 
Do you have a disconnect for a standard direct wired hood fan? 
Of course others have to deal with the rules enforced in their area and 
do whatever they see as making things safe. 
Ciao,
P&L


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## Dennis Alwon

Jrzy said:


> Dennis, if you actually read my posts for ONCE, you would see that adding a cord and plug to the given JB is what Bosch says to do...
> 
> 
> 
> Just to reiterate, if you look at the instructions, they show the use of that included junction box with a cord&plug as Method A. Method B would be hardwiring that junction box, which would require the switch for a disconnect.




Keep it up and I'm banning this account. I bet in the next 2 days it's gone...:whistling2:.

Yeah I thought they had a cord that was an extension cord from the back of the dishwasher and a male plug on the other end. 

So Bosch is saying to add a cord and plug..... Anyway my point is why put a jb when you can put a male plug on the end. Just an extra step that weakens the wiring system. Why have more splices????


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## HackWork

I don't know, but I actually like it.

No more having to tilt the DW or lay down to wire the cord into that tiny JB underneath. Now you have that nice big JB to splice in and then you plug it into the DW.


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## Going_Commando

That sounds way easier. I hate wiring dishwashers. Now if only I could convince customers to buy Bosch ones instead of LG, Samsung, and Kenmore Elite.


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## chicken steve

Fwiw, we can still hardwire them>



> *422.34 Unit Switch(es) as Disconnecting Means.* A unit
> switch( es) with a marked-off position that is a part of an
> appliance and disconnects all ungrounded conductors shall
> be permitted as the disconnecting means required by this
> article where *other means for disconnection* are provided in
> occupancies specified in 422.34(A) through (D).


The A-D being single,two,multi and commercial scenarios .

Correct me if i'm wrong, but _'other means'_ refers to circuit panel OR counter mounted switch

The only thing i could possibly add to that is 110.25's requirement for loto to stay on (where most dishwasher dials simply fail)

At this writing, we've a restaurant kitchen , panels are just outside the food prep area , so i'm curious as to my 'fix' .....

~CS~


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## Going_Commando

Do they still make dishwashers with dials? All the ones I have hooked up in recent memory all have control boards with buttons. With the phrasing of "marked-off position that is a part of an appliance and disconnects all ungrounded conductors" makes it sound like it needs to be a physical switch, not buttons on a control board.


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## nrp3

How about a breaker lock, most brands you can get the stamped steel, permanently affixed ones?


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## MechanicalDVR

Going_Commando said:


> Do they still make dishwashers with dials? All the ones I have hooked up in recent memory all have control boards with buttons. With the phrasing of "marked-off position that is a part of an appliance and disconnects all ungrounded conductors" makes it sound like it needs to be a physical switch, not buttons on a control board.


They still make the dial style it's just that nobody wants them, much like washing machines of that type that outlast the motherboard type machines.


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## chicken steve

nrp3 said:


> How about a breaker lock, most brands you can get the stamped steel, permanently affixed ones?


I'm unsure nrp

per 110.25,methinks the means to lock open must stay on a disco

why is this important? because the '17 is rumored to require all commercial receptacle outlets be gfci

so hardwiring anything commercial may save a $ or two 

~CS~


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## Dennis Alwon

nrp3 said:


> How about a breaker lock, most brands you can get the stamped steel, permanently affixed ones?





> 422.31(C) Motor-Operated Appliances Rated over 1⁄8 Horsepower.
> The disconnecting means shall comply with
> 430.109 and 430.110. For permanently connected motoroperated
> appliances with motors rated over 1⁄8 hp, the disconnecting
> means shall meet 422.31(C)(1) or (2).
> (1) The branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be
> permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where
> the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the
> appliance.
> (2) The disconnecting means shall be installed within sight
> of the appliance.
> Exception: If an appliance of more than 1⁄8 hp is provided
> with a unit switch that complies with 422.34(A), (B), (C), or
> (D), the switch or circuit breaker serving as the other disconnecting
> means shall be permitted to be out of sight from
> the appliance.



I don't believe there are many dishwasher's that meet the exception. At least that was the case years ago.


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## nrp3

I'd have to look at the definition of unit switch too. I had rented a fairly new condo in Florida a couple of years ago and there were breaker locks in there. Could be a local thing too.


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## Dennis Alwon

nrp3 said:


> I'd have to look at the definition of unit switch too. I had rented a fairly new condo in Florida a couple of years ago and there were breaker locks in there. Could be a local thing too.


Local thing meaning that an inspector may accept a breaker lock. It could be an amendment but I had not heard that from anyone.

If the dishwasher is totally disconnected when the switch is off on the unit then it is okay but most have some power to control the electronics even when the unit is off especially the digital ones


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## chicken steve

That _may_ be the issue Denny

fwiw, there's a 110.25 article that may follow suit in this months trade rag....not that i've time to _read _it....

~CS~


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