# Not to code.



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

California 3-way. AKA Farmer, Illinois, Chicago, Handy-man, Power-Beyond 3-way.


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## Nosparxsse (Aug 12, 2007)

480sparky said:


> California 3-way. AKA Farmer, Illinois, Chicago, Handy-man, Power-Beyond 3-way.


you made my fancy drawing look so crude!!:whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Nosparxsse said:


> you made my fancy drawing look so crude!!:whistling2:


Well, I didn't exactly just make that up. I've had it for years.





Here, try this 3-way configuration on for size:

Two switch locations, light in the middle. 2-wire from each switch to light, and 2-wire between switches.


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## 5volts (Jan 11, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Well, I didn't exactly just make that up. I've had it for years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, the coast. Actually the coast threeways purpose was because way back only 3 #12 TW wires were aloud in a 1/2 inch conduit. The city of LA aloud 4 #12 TW wires as long as one of the wires was being used as a switch leg. This aloud you to still use a 1/2 conduit. The coast also saves one wire as you only need 4 wires including hot and neutral. The Edison 3 wire three-way requires 5 wires including hot and neutral. The Coast is legal but serves no real purpose anymore.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

p_logix said:


> ......... The Coast is legal but serves no real purpose anymore.


 
Huh? Try 200.10 (C), 200.10 (D), 410.50 and 410.90.


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## 5volts (Jan 11, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Huh? Try 200.10 (C), 200.10 (D), 410.50 and 410.90.


 
The "Carter" setup is not a code compliant system because it switches the neutral and at times the screw shell of the lamp socket can be energized. I think this is what you are referring too. That is the first drawing you are displaying. *The coast does not switch the neutral.*

Now show me where in the code that the coast is not legal!


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## chefsparky (Mar 22, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Well, I didn't exactly just make that up. I've had it for years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok so at the risk of sounding like a green horn how dose this work? With the sw. leg and power in the same box?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

p_logix said:


> The "Carter" setup is not a code compliant system because it switches the neutral and at times the screw shell of the lamp socket can be energized. I think this is what you are referring too. That is the first drawing you are displaying. *The coast does not switch the neutral.*
> 
> Now show me where in the code that the coast is not legal!


So, how about a wiring diagram so the rest of us know what 'the coast' wiring looks like, and how it works?





chefsparky said:


> Ok so at the risk of sounding like a green horn how dose this work? With the sw. leg and power in the same box?


Black is hot, blue is neutral..... just follow the circuit as the switches operate and you'll see how the circuit opens and closes.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Well, I didn't exactly just make that up. I've had it for years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
this can be accomplished in romex and not use 3 wire and still be code compliant ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nolabama said:


> this can be accomplished in romex and not use 3 wire and still be code compliant ?


2-wire from power to first switch. 2-wire between switches. 2-wire between switches and light. So far so good.

Damn. 300.3(B).


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

i didnt know the number but i thought that would trip you up. I just didnt know for shure.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm still waiting to see this 'coast' switch method.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I'm still waiting to see this 'coast' switch method.


It's the one you posted in #4. I have always heard that setup called the California, or Coast 3-way. The one where the neutral is switched I have heard called the Carter, or Chicago 3-way. As long as this "Coast" were done in romex, then it should satisfy the requirements of 300.3(B)(3).


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## 5volts (Jan 11, 2008)

480sparky said:


> So, how about a wiring diagram so the rest of us know what 'the coast' wiring looks like, and how it works?


Here's a "snazzy" drawing, I like yours better it has moving parts:thumbup:








It is called a "coast" or "California" 3-way. Often, this same basic arrangement is wired in such a way as to accommodate two loads, one at the beginning and one at the end of the run (figure 6).









Well in school I was taught this version was called the "coast". 
The other two three way systems I learned were the Carter-three way switch, before the Edison lamp holder with the screw in shell, the connections were marked L1 and L2. Most old services that used this three-way had a 120 V, 1 phase, 2-wire system

Once the Edison lamp holder became the standard the nec required the screw shell of the lamp socket to be the grounded conductor. This Carter wiring system became illegal. 

The last the The "Edison 3 wire three-way" or the "Standard three-way" which is most common. 

As electricians no matter what name we are taught, or what type of nicknames given to any of these three-way systems, we must be aware of them, work safe, and be code compliant.:thumbsup:


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