# Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Looks a bit shallow.

Don't forget still limited to 360 degrees of bend


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

I think you are OK as long as the ENT is not directly buried in the earth as prohibited by 362.12(5) (2008) or 362.12(4) (2011)

Chris


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> 362.2 Definition.
> Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing (ENT). A nonmetallic, pliable,
> corrugated raceway of circular cross section with integral
> or associated couplings, connectors, and fittings for
> ...


 I used E.N.T for low voltage stub ups ,found it to be a PIA to pull through IMO...:blink:I prefer to use PVC :notworthy:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Looks a bit shallow.
> 
> Don't forget still limited to 360 degrees of bend


And that's what this EI is worried about. The smurf tube is not rated for direct burial but it is rated to be encased concrete. That's why I used it. He failed me twice for this and today I went down there specifically to be there to meet him today and he didn't even have the courtesy to knock on the back door or ring the front doorbell to get my attention. Yes I realize that's not his job to come find me but for a re-inspection I thought he would at least want to explain to me his side since I was there. Guess not. Everyone on this job is pissed at me because they all want to get done and get paid. What a pita!!!


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

raider1 said:


> I think you are OK as long as the ENT is not directly buried in the earth as prohibited by 362.12(5) (2008) or 362.12(4) (2011)
> 
> Chris


That's the way I interpreted the code too.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> That's the way I interpreted the code too.


It's not buried it will be encased, I wouldn't think depth is an issue at that point...2 inches right?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Nope. Suzanne Borek says it the smurf tube has be on top of sand and in a trench 12" deep. **** me!!!


Im so furious right now.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Not tryin to piss you off, but why didn't you just use pvc?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Not tryin to piss you off, but why didn't you just use pvc?


Because as a contractor I am always looking for ways to decrease labor and make more profit. This time it backfired on me. Now I get to do this job again, for third time. I need a drunken night out at the Stadium.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Not tryin to piss you off, but why didn't you just use pvc?


Because that stuff is so much easier! I also recently did a patio where I was going to use PVC the contractor mentioned ENT. I am glad I listened!


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Because as a contractor I am always looking for ways to decrease labor and make more profit. This time it backfired on me. Now I get to do this job again, for third time. I need a drunken night out at the Stadium.


I understand that...Sometimes you leave yourself at the mercy of as ahole inspector by doing that...Hopefully it goes quick


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Wireless said:


> Because that stuff is so much easier! I also ecently did a patio where I was going to use PVC the contractor mentioned ENT. I am glad I listened!


Thats doesn't look easier when you have to pull the wire.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Wireless said:


> Because that stuff is so much easier! I also ecently did a patio where I was going to use PVC the contractor mentioned ENT. I am glad I listened!


So are you saying this would pass in Los Angeles but not in Freehold, NJ?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> I understand that...Sometimes you leave yourself at the mercy of as ahole inspector by doing that...Hopefully it goes quick


Nothing goes quick when the jobs 40 minutes away. That's 80 minutes of Jersey potholes and people doing 35MPH in the fast lane on route 9.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Nothing goes quick when the jobs 40 minutes away. That's 80 minutes of Jersey potholes and people doing 35MPH in the fast lane on route 9.


Then the only solution is to go on a shooting rampage at the inspectors office.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Then the only solution is to go on a shooting rampage at the inspectors office.


I actually just coordinated the paver guys to come back and remove the tops off all 5 pillar caps so I can finish this thing off tomorrow morning. They can't be too happy with me since they are already glued. Then I spoke to the owner and explained everything to him. He of course is pissed cus' he just wants the work done so I agreed to come back first thing tomorrow morning and redo the work that needs to be done. Then I left a msg for the EI to take mercy on me and come back tomorrow to re-inspect so my client won't have to wait another 2 weeks for them to come back and inspect since Monday's the 4th of July. 


Looks like I'll be paying the HO to work there from this point forward.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Nope. Suzanne Borek says it the smurf tube has be on top of sand and in a trench 12" deep. **** me!!!
> 
> 
> Im so furious right now.


You are not burying the ENT you are encasing it in concrete, there is no burial depth required for concrete encasement.:no:

So how would she deal with ENT encased in a slab above grade? :blink:

Chris


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

oh man this sounds bad, really horrible for you.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

raider1 said:


> You are not burying the ENT you are encasing it in concrete, there is no burial depth required for concrete encasement.:no:
> 
> So how would she deal with ENT encased in a slab above grade? :blink:
> 
> Chris


You wanna call her for me? :notworthy:


I surrender and it's BS like this that makes me want to say no next time I am asked to work in this town.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

raider1 said:


> You are not burying the ENT you are encasing it in concrete, there is no burial depth required for concrete encasement.:no:
> 
> So how would she deal with ENT encased in a slab above grade? :blink:
> 
> Chris


I agree...I wonder if either (a) they don't know what they are doing or (b) there is a local code prohibiting it...


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> You wanna call her for me? :notworthy:
> 
> 
> I surrender and it's BS like this that makes me want to say no next time I am asked to work in this town.


That actually is not a bad idea...Come on Chris, do Ronny a solid...


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

how much room is there between the ent and the top of the pad? Could you put small blocks under the ent to make sure it gets encased, yet stays below the surface of the pad?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

So doing this in NJ wouldn't fly










_Note to self, don't move to jersey. _


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Equal opportunity employment.......


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> You wanna call her for me? :notworthy:
> 
> 
> I surrender and it's BS like this that makes me want to say no next time I am asked to work in this town.





NolaTigaBait said:


> That actually is not a bad idea...Come on Chris, do Ronny a solid...


Whats her number?

By the way she was suppose to be at an inspectors forum that I attended last July for NFPA but she was unable to attend. I did get to meet some inspectors from all over the country. It was a great forum.:thumbsup:

Chris


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Ron I thought the blue smurf isnt rated for outside, we always used the orange smurf for outdoors.....


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Ron I thought the blue smurf isnt rated for outside, we always used the orange smurf for outdoors.....


According to Carlon the color is just used to separate things like communications raceways from other raceways.

Chris


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

That must've been some forum raider1. 

Moving on I'm gonna go there for the 5th time tomorrow before the crack of dawn and get this done. I hope the inspector is able to "swing by" tomorrow and re-approve otherwise we have to wait. And all I'm left to do is sit here and take it and vent on an internet forum.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Its use is not permitted underground, should have been coupled to sch 40 for the UG,


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> That must've been some forum raider1.


It was great, I was invited to represent Utah and the Northwest section of the International Association of Electrical Inspectors.

Chris


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> Its use is not permitted underground, should have been coupled to sch 40 for the UG,


The ENT was not being installed underground, it was being installed encased in a concrete slab as permitted by 362.10(6).

Chris


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

raider1 said:


> It was great, I was invited to represent Utah and the Northwest section of the International Association of Electrical Inspectors.
> 
> Chris


I know you dominate the code questions here when they're asked. You really know the NEC well and I was relieved when I saw your post that confirmed my opinion of the ENT and it's use here. Thanks again.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

BuzzKill said:


> how much room is there between the ent and the top of the pad? Could you put small blocks under the ent to make sure it gets encased, yet stays below the surface of the pad?


nobody answered my question...:huh:


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> I know you dominate the code questions here when they're asked. You really know the NEC well and I was relieved when I saw your post that confirmed my opinion of the ENT and it's use here. Thanks again.


Your welcome.:thumbsup:

Chris


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> nobody answered my question...:huh:


If the pad was thick enough then I would agree.

Chris


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I would pull my conductors through now before it gets encased in concrete..

You never know what surprises will pop up when snaking_ after_ the slab is poured..


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

B4T said:


> I would pull my conductors through now before it gets encased in concrete..
> 
> You never know what surprises will pop up when snaking_ after_ the slab is poured..


That would be a code violation and the whole backyard will catch fire.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

raider1 said:


> According to Carlon the color is just used to separate things like communications raceways from other raceways.
> 
> Chris


 so it doesnt have anything to do with uv protection..? weird....why did another EC i used to work for tell me otherwise..?


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

captkirk said:


> so it doesnt have anything to do with uv protection..? weird....why did another EC i used to work for tell me otherwise..?


Not according to what I have read on Carlons website.

Chris


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

jlarson said:


> so doing this in nj wouldn't fly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 they run this crap in los angeles high rises?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

ce2two said:


> they run this crap in los angeles high rises?


There was a series on Discovery Channel I think where they build a huge building in LA from start to finish using this smurf tubing..

Building was a condo complex called TIVO or something like that..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

ce2two said:


> they run this crap in los angeles high rises?


Yep, and in lots of other places too, I've done it before.


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

I went back here today to make the necessary (?) changes. EI's should not be in the business of electrical design and opinion on installations. Just enforce the code!!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica_2 said:


> I went back here today to make the necessary (?) changes. EI's should not be in the business of electrical design and opinion on installations. Just enforce the code!!


Why the new account??


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Magnettica_2 said:


> I went back here today to make the necessary (?) changes. EI's should not be in the business of electrical design and opinion on installations. Just enforce the code!!


 
What is with the name change?


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

New iPhone, new iPad - had log-in issues with the password request form going to an old Yahoo account and I forgot the Yahoo account password to retrieve the password for this site. Understand all that? lol


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

There is wiring for (5) pillar lights and (1) GFCI receptacle. Keep in mind they'll be pouring concrete over this once the EI gets his ass back there for the third inspection.


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

Check from iPhone


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Nice job making the video.. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)




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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

What a PITA just for a pin head inspector.:no:.


Whats the new name about....:blink:


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> So are you saying this would pass in Los Angeles but not in Freehold, NJ?


Even better! Beverly Hills, they don't even allow romex! they are so special.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Thats doesn't look easier when you have to pull the wire.


Didn't have any problems pulling wire, it actually went pretty smooth.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Seriously .... these people are spending a ton of money on this outdoor space and you run two conduits on the surface up the wall 3' to a box?

Ugly, ugly, ugly.


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Seriously .... these people are spending a ton of money on this outdoor space and you run two conduits on the surface up the wall 3' to a box?
> 
> Ugly, ugly, ugly.


Seriously, what would you have done differently?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Does that bell box have something going out the back into the house, switch for the lights?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't know the customers wishes or the layout of the job.. but X10 remote switching is always an option..


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Does that bell box have something going out the back into the house, switch for the lights?


Right, switch leg and a constant for the GFCI.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

depends on what they were willing to pay for, cheap install and I'd have done the same, top notch install, hand hole in the concrete and a very minimal piece of conduit and an LB into the wall, unless I could sneak it in even more low profile.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica_2 said:


> Seriously, what would you have done differently?



Come in around the corner off the new deck area and down low with an LB.


Of course there might be reasons to do it as you did, I don't work for free so they only get what they pay for.

But all things being equal why would you run two conduits and why up so high and why on the new deck?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Magnettica_2 said:


> Seriously, what would you have done differently?


Buried PVC box in the dirt next to the patio, complete with map and Scotchkote splices.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Seriously .... these people are spending a ton of money on this outdoor space and you run two conduits on the surface up the wall 3' to a box?
> 
> Ugly, ugly, ugly.


Three coupling within 12". Now thats UGLY.


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Come in around the corner off the new deck area and down low with an LB.
> 
> Of course there might be reasons to do it as you did, I don't work for free so they only get what they pay for.
> 
> But all things being equal why would you run two conduits and why up so high and why on the new deck?


It could have been lower and I could have gone around the side of the house and come in there. I did this same set up at this guys brothers house and he wanted the same layout. 

Now get this: his brothers house had the same layout. Except there we used all PVC and the 4" trench wasn't enforced.

Now the real ball breaker... both jobs are in the same town!


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

tkb said:


> Three coupling within 12". Now thats UGLY.


Let's see your work.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Buried PVC box in the dirt next to the patio, complete with map and Scotchkote splices.


Make all the jokes you want.. it works when you need flexibility on a job.. :thumbsup:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

so you went with pvc this time around?
also,
I know other contractor's are pissed at you but how is the HO dealing with this?


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

BuzzKill said:


> so you went with pvc this time around?
> also,
> I know other contractor's are pissed at you but how is the HO dealing with this?


He's ok because I actually return text messages and answer the phone when he calls. I explained to him to everything about the install -- including the ENT -- and he's been patient. 


Oh, and hey BBQ -- the LB would have looked nice but I had 2 runs of PVC out.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Well I hope your business relationships with the other contractors aren't permanently ruined...a thing like this makes people talk, and that sh*t gets around...


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

BuzzKill said:


> Well I hope your business relationships with the other contractors aren't permanently ruined...a thing like this makes people talk, and that sh*t gets around...


Well if they have problem because the inspector was giving me the business, then I probably don't want to work with them anyway. My contract is with the HO, not with any of them.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Ok, I'm all fixed up now. 

Back to the original screen name: Magnettica

Damn, what a electronic mess I was in.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Check from iphone

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Ok, I'm all fixed up now.
> 
> Back to the original screen name: Magnettica
> 
> Damn, what a electronic mess I was in.


I'd hate to see you electrical work! :jester:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Check from iPad


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica_2 said:


> Oh, and hey BBQ -- the LB would have looked nice but I had 2 runs of PVC out.


Yeah, that was kind of poor planing wasn't it? :thumbsup:


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

That video kinda scared me, the music playing was "I shot the Sheriff" I thought we were going to find the inspector buried in the patio.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Eric Clapton's great music.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Nope. Suzanne Borek says it the smurf tube has be on top of sand and in a trench 12" deep



Who the efff is she?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

steelersman said:


> Who the efff is she?


 
She is NJ'd electrical code consultant

If you have a problem with an inspector you call her and she either tells you that you are wrong or she tells the inspector to go sh!t in his hat


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> She is NJ'd electrical code consultant
> 
> If you have a problem with an inspector you call her and she either tells you that you are wrong or she tells the inspector to go sh!t in his hat


LOL Nice one!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Why does ENT have to be buried 12" deep if it is covered in concrete.. :blink::blink:

I saw these guys on TV strapping the stuff to rebar for a huge condo complex they were building..

It was a Union EC and they are always doing things the right way..


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

why are all the pillar tops split? That is ballsack ugly. I've never seen some nasty looking pillar tops like that.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> so it doesnt have anything to do with uv protection..? weird....why did another EC i used to work for tell me otherwise..?


How is the sunlight going to ever affect the smurf tube considering it's under concrete. That stuff is never meant to see the light of the sun so UV protection is just a silly thought......


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Magnettica_2 said:


> Let's see your work.


Hey he had a damn good point.....three couplings that close together is definitely ugly.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Hey he had a damn good point.....three couplings that close together is definitely ugly.


Some of those couplings will be covered by the slab..


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Wireless said:


> Even better! Beverly Hills, they don't even allow romex! they are so special.


Didnt burbank just recently allow romex a few years ago?


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## sxpert (Jun 17, 2011)

interesting perspective... 
over here, we're using that corrugated pipe everywhere, encased in concrete or not 
one of the perks over directly attaching romex to the studs is that you can actually pull the wires out and throw in something else when you want to change the functionality.


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