# Instailed my first residential panel today zip tie question



## joelowrider (Jul 2, 2011)

I am an industrial electrician so i don't do residential alot. I wired my house and installed the panel passed inspection today .

My partner stoped by and looked at it today said that I should not use zip ties and sticky backs on solid wire just stranded. I have always used stranded wire and always zip ties. I have looked everywhere in the code book for this. I am not seeing anything and the inspector passed it so?
Anyone have a code ref for me?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

No code. Some guys are just anal about it. I would've skipped the sticky-backs because a zip-tied group of solids will pretty much hold itself in whatever position you put it.

-John


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

joelowrider said:


> I am an industrial electrician so i don't do residential alot. I wired my house and installed the panel passed inspection today .
> 
> My partner stoped by and looked at it today said that I should not use zip ties and sticky backs on solid wire just stranded. I have always used stranded wire and always zip ties. I have looked everywhere in the code book for this. I am not seeing anything and the inspector passed it so?
> Anyone have a code ref for me?


There is no code rule on that. use whatever you want too


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

joelowrider said:


> I am an industrial electrician so i don't do residential alot. I wired my house and installed the panel passed inspection today .
> 
> My partner stoped by and looked at it today said that I should not use zip ties and sticky backs on solid wire just stranded. I have always used stranded wire and always zip ties. I have looked everywhere in the code book for this. I am not seeing anything and the inspector passed it so?
> Anyone have a code ref for me?


If you don't secure them to the point that it squeezes the insulation I don't see any harm. Even then, it is probably okay. Just don't use them on cat 5 and the like.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

joelowrider said:


> I am an industrial electrician so i don't do residential alot. I wired my house and installed the panel passed inspection today .
> 
> My partner stoped by and looked at it today said that I should not use zip ties and sticky backs on solid wire just stranded. I have always used stranded wire and always zip ties. I have looked everywhere in the code book for this. I am not seeing anything and the inspector passed it so?
> Anyone have a code ref for me?



You can do it any way you want to there is no reason not to..


Welcome to the forum.:thumbup:


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## joelowrider (Jul 2, 2011)

Thanks I guess I see the point that solid stays in place I am just so use to installing control wires useing mtw or thhn.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I zip tie all my panels.. just looks like you went the extra step to do a neat job.. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I zip tie all my panels.. just looks like you went the extra step to do a neat job.. :thumbsup:



I enjoy cutting off them when I work in a panel that was zip tied. :thumbup:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

im not a Zip tie fan.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I enjoy cutting off them when I work in a panel that was zip tied. :thumbup:


I do also.. when the first guy didn't do flush cuts.. 

Some guys leave 1/8" on a 45 degree angle..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> im not a Zip tie fan.


Why not.. you take the time to do a neat panel..:blink::blink:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

B4T said:


> Why not.. you take the time to do a neat panel..:blink::blink:


 to me they only serve to get in the way of future work...Unless its all in thhn I dont think they are necassary...


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Zip ties suck if you need to work in a panel, I cut them out and never replace them. Why would anyone think it is a good idea to use them in the first place? It makes troubleshooting harder, you can't use a clamp on meter, and tracing out the circuits neutral is more difficult. I see no value gained, only negatives.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't waste ties in panelboards, scrap solid wire is the way I fly.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

drsparky said:


> Zip ties suck if you need to work in a panel, I cut them out and never replace them. Why would anyone think it is a good idea to use them in the first place? It makes troubleshooting harder, you can't use a clamp on meter, and tracing out the circuits neutral is more difficult. I see no value gained, only negatives.


Not to mention bundled wires create heat and compromise ampacity.....but- make a few good billable minutes for the next guy who comes around with a pair of *****, not to mention credibity with the customer who's totally relieved that you just made his/her building safer.


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## van2977 (Jan 13, 2010)

i was told you would have to de-rate the wires if you bundle them , but i forget how many I was told starts the de-rating? i haven't looked for it in the code though.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

kennydmeek said:


> Not to mention bundled wires create heat and compromise ampacity.....


In a residential setting? I wouldn't worry about that.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> In a residential setting? I wouldn't worry about that.


There's always going to be exceptions like my neighbor around the corner who has banks of Sun and Cisco servers plugged up for his home based Internet business. Harmonics out the yang. Car chargers are coming... Multi HVAC....it's sort of like abstinence from sex. If you don't do it you'll never have to worry about the outcome...


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

> There's always going to be exceptions like my neighbor around the corner
> 
> 
> > ...and how many times do you run into that? Just saying...95% of the time it ain't no big deal


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## Rick567 (Mar 3, 2011)

Zip ties suck, I would have used wax string for mine.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

Car chargers are coming... Why do something that's totally unnecesary except to take pictures to post for guys on here?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> I do also.. when the first guy didn't do flush cuts..
> 
> Some guys leave 1/8" on a 45 degree angle..


 
Oh, I see. 

You'll pick at how a zip tie is cut, but have no problem burying boxes and hot gluing **** together.:whistling2:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rick567 said:


> Zip ties suck, I would have used wax string for mine.


If you bid that job right...and get it, you will make a lot of money.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> In a residential setting? I wouldn't worry about that.


I don't worry about that like _almost_ ever.


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## Teaspoon (Jan 10, 2009)

B4T said:


> I zip tie all my panels.. just looks like you went the extra step to do a neat job.. :thumbsup:


 
I agree zip ties are very useful to tidy up the panel.
I also zip tie all of my panels. may be unnecessary,sure does look nice.
We have all pulled the cover on old installs and wire jump out at you,
I have used zip ties in a lot of cases in order to get the wires back so I could put the cover back on.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I only use them on mains entered in the back bottom going to a top mounted main, branch circuits trained into place hold their own.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

There signs we work on where the maunfacture will ty-rap all the nuetrals together and all the hots together, nothing like wires tied so tight together that thet literally melt:bangin:When i approach these signs and cut 50 % of the zip ties it makes me very happy, it's not like it is going to walk down the street:lol:I have tons of work, let alone wipe the mfg's butt.....


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Oh, I see.
> 
> You'll pick at how a zip tie is cut, but have no problem burying boxes and hot gluing **** together.:whistling2:


I don't bury boxes and hot glue is just another tool to make a job complete.. :no:


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I enjoy cutting off them when I work in a panel that was zip tied. :thumbup:


Yeah, 480, not that I would do that hot, pisses me off. They have these amazing new Velcro straps we now use on 480 gear. Big box, a pile of them for $10.


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