# Layed off with no reason



## JTANSTAR (May 18, 2008)

I worked for 3 diffrent contractors, and was layed off, due to lack-of work.
I took a job that was posted for 6 months work, 3 weeks of work and layed off, due to lack of work. The building was still in frame. Never missed one day.
I took another job was posted for 6 weeks, layed off after 4 weeks, the
power was not even live. The foreman said he had no problems with me. The supervisor layed me off. Never missed one day.

I took another job tenant improvement, posted 4 weeks, The foreman had transfered another JW to the job and layed me off 2 weeks. He said no problem with me. The supervisor layed me off. Never missed one day.

I heard of a list the NECA has, or the contractors have of all the workers that calls the business agent out to a job, because of the supervision is going against the union agreement.

AS of yet I have to have proof that there is a list, I know that there is.
Anyone know ?

I called a business agent out to a job, where the foreman layed off every one that missed one day, and had apprentices carry power drills, and extra tools from one job to another. I was also, layed off. The business agent said I can either go to another job with the same company, or have a day pay. I took the day pay, and that is when I went to short job to short job.

Have any of you brothers have the same experience.
I am venting off, also, so have a nice day.
From Local 11, Los Angeles.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

sorry to hear of your experience. It does sound like you have been blackballed.

Have you spoken to your BA about this? He has to have some input on the matter. From this view, it is apparent what is happening and it should be to him as well.


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## JTANSTAR (May 18, 2008)

I did talk to a business rep, and he said nothing can be done, unless I find a list of all the brothers that was treated as such. You heard of such a thing as being =-black balled out of the jobs too, but can you prove it?
He has no evidence of such a thing going on. 
I appreciate your reply to my thead,


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

What was your work history before all of this started?


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## JTANSTAR (May 18, 2008)

Got out of the Army, and a war vet. I was sworn in 1967 Sept, with the IBEW, went through the apprenticship, JW in 1971.

I worked as a JW up to 1984, and worked as a electrical inspector for L.A, City.
I came back to work as a JW for the IBEW in 2002. Retired, I have been working ever since.
I go to all my union district meetings, and on the welfare commitee.

All said and done, I am 63 and one more year to retire.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

JTANSTAR said:


> Got out of the Army, and a war vet. I was sworn in 1967 Sept, with the IBEW, went through the apprenticship, JW in 1971.
> 
> I worked as a JW up to 1984, and worked as a electrical inspector for L.A, City.
> I came back to work as a JW for the IBEW in 2002. Retired, I have been working ever since.
> ...


Then it seems that the obvious is the issue, a few guys out there have a hard on for you, I would talk to your BA and see what he has to say. Who needs that bs for another year?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

well, it sounds like your BA is lazy or ignorant, if it apears as cut and dry as you state. It is his responsibility to investigate this situation. His claim of others situations is irrelevent.

given that, I would seek legal counsel and look to see if s/he believes there may be any wrong doing. By your age,one of the first things I wold look at is an age dscrimination situation. I would also speak to the attorney about the BA's failure to represent a member of his local.

I do agree with RK though. I do not see this worth the hassle if retirement is a mere year away. You would spend more time in court than that , most likley.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

nap said:


> well, it sounds like your BA is lazy or ignorant, if it apears as cut and dry as you state. It is his responsibility to investigate this situation. His claim of others situations is irrelevent.
> 
> given that, I would seek legal counsel and look to see if s/he believes there may be any wrong doing. By your age,one of the first things I wold look at is an age dscrimination situation. I would also speak to the attorney about the BA's failure to represent a member of his local.
> 
> I do agree with RK though. I do not see this worth the hassle if retirement is a mere year away. You would spend more time in court than that , most likley.


 
Could be the BA is too close to the good ol boys in the local contractors circles. Maybe they provide his liquid allowance for the national convention or something along those lines.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

JTANSTAR said:


> Got out of the Army, and a war vet. I was sworn in 1967 Sept, with the IBEW, went through the apprenticship, JW in 1971.
> 
> I worked as a JW up to 1984, and worked as a electrical inspector for L.A, City.
> I came back to work as a JW for the IBEW in 2002. Retired, I have been working ever since.
> ...


 
Can I ask, when you left the IBEW to become an inspector, then earned a city pension, and now you've returned, if you think maybe some of the members feel you might be a goldigger, and at age 58 restarting a JW career after 18 years of pushing paper you might not be the most productive link in the chain?

Just a thought I'm throwing out there...


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## N PHILLY KID (Mar 26, 2008)

*layoff with no reason*

Been in the ibew 34 years, and have seen this sort of thing in the past .I think your age 63 might be a factor.That being said you are probably a better jw that some of the shop boys.A former inspector and a jw produced in the early 1970's might be a threat to some people.But look at the bright side you can get by on short calls for the last year or so.Gives you a chance to reconnect with old friends and make some new ones. Good luck.


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## joeyuk (Feb 27, 2008)

I am sorry for the tuff times your going thru. My local has a provision in the bylaws which requires a 20% of electricians on the job be age 50 or older or they must lay someone else off. I have seen this enforced in the past. Perhaps your local has something similar. 
Joe


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## nakulak (Dec 10, 2007)

are you pulling your weight ?
are you a know it all ?
did you make some enemies when you were an inspector ?
do you think its age discrimination ? (are you fit ?)

not enough info to make a determination, but if you think you're being disciminated against because of your age, go to the news or the amer. civil liberties u (?) and start a case ?

good luck


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## JTANSTAR (May 18, 2008)

Our local has in our agreement in local 11 that we do have a section 3.32 that all jobs requiring five or more journeyman, at least every fifith journeyman, if available, shall be fifty years of age or older.
All the jobs I have been on this year had less than 5 journeymen, and the one that had 20 had a forman that was 52 year old, who was sent to the job I was on from another job, a shopie, so I was layed off.
The factor that I had a history of being a city inspector, and over 30 years experience, is that I never mentioned it to anyone on the jobs I have been on. Mostly I would say I was doing other work, LA city , on the years of absents, i
If asked you should be retired ? not enough hours.
To file a grievance would not help me or our brothers on this situation. 
I talked to other journeymen in our hall whom I see who are around 30 year old.
They have similar experiences, and do not want to file a grievance, because, if they get dispatched to a shop, they will probably be turned around, or not hired on.
We have in our agreement section 2.02, in it which states that the management has rights to discharge employees for proper cause. It is up to management to say what is proper cause.
The biggest and best way I would like to handle this is, anyone know if a list of jorneyman wireman that is going around to be blackballed out of work? If I can get a copy I will file a class action suit.
Thanks for all the input brothers.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

nakulak said:


> are you pulling your weight ?
> are you a know it all ?
> did you make some enemies when you were an inspector ?
> do you think its age discrimination ? (are you fit ?)
> ...


If he feels he's been wronged he must exhaust all of the available options the union offers first. You can't just step one drag your employer to court. My last post on this matter referenced a very similar situation I was personally involved in.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

I've seen people from our local that have been turned around on several jobs, as well as cherry picking to get rid of the culls. Usually, it is because someone can't pull their weight or has a big mouth.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

sparky970 said:


> I've seen people from our local that have been turned around on several jobs, as well as cherry picking to get rid of the culls. Usually, it is because someone can't pull their weight or has a big mouth.


 
I agree, that's like the girl in court that said all 50,000 guys in town were bad in bed. Maybe after the first 1000 you might think it was you.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> If he feels he's been wronged he must exhaust all of the available options the union offers first. You can't just step one drag your employer to court. My last post on this matter referenced a very similar situation I was personally involved in.


he did. 

He asked the BM about it and he said there is nothing he can do. So now, he needs to look at other actions. As well, an age discrimination suit can be undertaken outside of the union agreement by contacting the EEOC. This would be the proper action since the union agreement does not address age discrimination other than the guy over 50 thing and they have been abiding by that section, apparently.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Maybe you should quit whining and look for another office job.

You're not on some special blacklist, they don't exist. People do themselves in all on their own account.

When somebody talks about sueing the brotherhood, it makes me angry.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Maybe you should quit whining and look for another office job.
> 
> You're not on some special blacklist, they don't exist. People do themselves in all on their own account.
> 
> When somebody talks about suing the brotherhood, it makes me angry.


Ring, ring.

Wake up call for miller.


Yes, blacklists do exist.

and to being angered about somebody suing the brotherhood simply because it is "the brotherhood" is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard. There are dirty locals and they need to be taken to task. There are "old boys clubs" that unjustly restrict other members abilities to engage in a reasonably gainful career.

Don;t be so loyal that you close your eyes to the wrongs that are there and do not claim to be so loyal that you will refuse to take prudent actions against a dirty administration.

I'm not going to defend the OP anymore than I have as there is not enough info to know where the problem actually lies. It could be in his life choices but it could just as easily be in the administration turning a blind eye to illegal treatment.

I am union and proud to be so. I am so proud that if I did become aware of improper or illegal action within the admin of my local, I feel it would be a rightous action to take any necessary action against the admin needed to remove them, including suing the local. While it would appear one would be suing the union, it would be a mis-perception as the admin in that case are not truly representing the IBEW. They are in it for personal reasons and gain and their actions need to be brought to light.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

nap said:


> he did.
> 
> He asked the BM about it and he said there is nothing he can do. So now, he needs to look at other actions. As well, an age discrimination suit can be undertaken outside of the union agreement by contacting the EEOC. This would be the proper action since the union agreement does not address age discrimination other than the guy over 50 thing and they have been abiding by that section, apparently.


Asking the BM to do something about it is a far cry from filing grievance charges. If he does that and fails, he can persue it by appeal through the international. At that point he's free to persue the matter as an individual.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

nap said:


> Ring, ring.
> 
> Wake up call for miller.
> 
> ...


Very well stated, Nap.


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

nap said:


> Ring, ring.
> 
> Wake up call for miller.
> 
> ...


 

DONT HAMPER YOUR ADVANCEMENT


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Usually you can find out why someone is laid off often without looking very hard.

Only getting one side of the story here.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Asking the BM to do something about it is a far cry from filing grievance charges. If he does that and fails, he can persue it by appeal through the international. At that point he's free to persue the matter as an individual.


did you read what the BM told him?. That was the BM blowing him off. If the BM would accept a grievance, he should have given that possibility.

at that point, trying to seek action from the IO is going to be problematic as the BM will typically attempt to diffuse the IO's actions as a explaining the OP as a spurned electrician. The BM's word does have some clout the member does not.


He had the chance to help and he blew of one of his local members.

On top of that, the union does not and cannot enforce federal law such as age discrimination. They can only enforce the rules of the union. The EEOC is the proper place to seek an answer IF it is an ae related thing.


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## JTANSTAR (May 18, 2008)

As I feel, our jobs have a lot of our brother JW's as supervisors for the shops they work for, and most of them break the agreements some of the time. 
If you see any of your inside wiremen's Agreement not complied with.

I dare you to call your business agent out to the job you are working on, and have him respond to it.

This is how it will come down, after the business agent leaves.
The business agent most always sides with the contractors, unless it is a safety factor..
The forman or supervisor will start laying off suspected JW he thinks that reported the grievance to the BA. It will be a witch hunt.
If the suspected JW was not the JW that did the grievace then the supervisor will lay off more JW, just to scare the crew. I have been on jobs this occured. 
And how did the supervisor find out? He had spies out on the crews that rat out them. Our own brothers, just to keep their job, some brother.
Then you will be on the Black ball list. 
I have taken a class on supervision in our local. The person that taught it, He is retired from our local, and is still working for LAUSD as a plan overseer, and he was a supervisor, contractor, and a non-unon worker, in his 25 year history.

He said that he had given 100 dollars to Jw's to keep their grievence out of the job, and to JW that told him how the crews work was, just to keep the job going smoothly. This means laying off the trouble makers.

This is my opinion only, I do not want to piss off any one but, If you work for a shop for a long while, like over 2 years, you are scared of upholding the union agreement, because of being layed off. You have obligations that money will take care of, and do not want to cause trouble, and said nothing of work conditions.
I know you can't do your job without breaking the agreement some times. I was a shop guy with a truck too.


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## bulldog1770 (May 27, 2008)

JTANSTAR said:


> Got out of the Army, and a war vet. I was sworn in 1967 Sept, with the IBEW, went through the apprenticship, JW in 1971.
> 
> I worked as a JW up to 1984, and worked as a electrical inspector for L.A, City.
> I came back to work as a JW for the IBEW in 2002. Retired, I have been working ever since.
> ...


*I think they call this age dicrimination.....* 
*Local contractors say they dont do it, but they do.*
*As far as NECA having a black-ball list---Never seen it, but believe the hall, has a list...*
*Our contract is every 3rd. man has to be over 50... Keeps those damn contractors from acting like RATS...*
*But yes, some loser so-called BROTHERS can black ball you for getting out then jumping back in.. In my opinion they should lose their foreman jobs.....*


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## Ray Cyr (Nov 21, 2007)

nap said:


> did you read what the BM told him?. That was the BM blowing him off. If the BM would accept a grievance, he should have given that possibility.
> 
> at that point, trying to seek action from the IO is going to be problematic as the BM will typically attempt to diffuse the IO's actions as a explaining the OP as a spurned electrician. The BM's word does have some clout the member does not.
> 
> ...


Compliance with federal law (on both sides of the table) should be listed as a part of ANY union contract, and as such, is certainly enforceable!
It sounds as though this is a fairly widespread and common problem (or is at least perceived this way). I would strongly encourage the OP to file a grievance, as a veteran you fought for the very rights that you are not persuing (thank you for your service!). Since you have noticed a number of men in a similar situation, I would encourage you to get them to file the grievance with you. I know this seems as though it could be a big hassle, but if no one is willing to stand up and refuse to be treated unfairly, then we should simply throw all contracts away since without action they are worth less than the paper they are printed on.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> *I think they call this age discrimination.....*


YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS IS A FACTUAL STATEMENT, the guy may be a total slacker and deserves to be working at Mickey D's.

*



Local contractors say they don't do it, but they do.

Click to expand...

*


> *As far as NECA having a black-ball list---Never seen it, but believe the hall, has a list...*




FOR GOOD REASONS, there are guys that take advantage of the system and damage the halls GOOD reputation. For all the excellent worker the hall has there are a few losers that only bring down the majority.

*



Our contract is every 3rd. man has to be over 50... Keeps those damn contractors from acting like RATS...

Click to expand...

*Yeah lets punish those bad contractors with LOSERS, Nice Guy you are. Contractors make less money less cash to put in your pocket.



*



But yes, some loser so-called BROTHERS can black ball you for getting out then jumping back in.. In my opinion they should lose their foreman jobs.....

Click to expand...

*Yeah lets take away a productive workers ability to make a living so some possible slacker can sit on his ass complaining.

Look there are two sides to every story, and in my experience EVERY single whiner, complainer, union lawyer that was black listed either on a formal list or a invisible HUSH HUSH list deserved to be there. Seldom is a contractor going to NOT WANT A GOOD WORKER.

Tell me one reason a contractor is not going to want a productive, good hard worker?


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

"Look there are two sides to every story, and in my experience EVERY single whiner, complainer, union lawyer that was black listed either on a formal list or a invisible HUSH HUSH list deserved to be there. Seldom is a contractor going to NOT WANT A GOOD WORKER.

Tell me one reason a contractor is not going to want a productive, good hard worker?"
That's just it. The OP said his foremen had no problem with him. Getting yanked came from higher up.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Look there are jerks in every end of the business, from apprentices through owners. But laid off once ahhhh possible grudge a getting laid off regularly and there are issues somewhere.

I have never laid off a good worker, heck to get laid off from me and you have to have multiple screw ups, even then I'll usually try to get you hired on elsewhere. Piss me off and screw me and I might just hold a grudge, but I seldom would try to harm a persons ability to earn money (you'd really have had to screwed me for this).

There are two sides to every story (maybe 3 depending on the day you ask) My point above as a PRO WORKER stance based on nothing but a brother losing a job. KINDA OF NARROW MINDED.


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