# Our next project



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Here's the biggest job I ever sold! We start next week.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Here's the biggest job I ever sold!


Way to go!


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Upgrading a squat house?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Nice job.. that has to feel good :thumbsup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Congrats!!! I remember how we felt when we won the shopping center we did. Great feeling!!!! Great news too!!!


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The GC calls me while I'm driving home from the game last night at like 10:30 at night. I wasn't exactly feeling very "sharp" at that point. :laughing: But it is what it is. Now I need to secure a deposit and away we go! :thumbup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> The GC calls me while I'm driving home from the game last night at like 10:30 at night. I wasn't exactly feeling very "sharp" at that point. :laughing: But it is what it is. Now I need to secure a deposit and away we go! :thumbup:


 
A deposit?? How many $ do you have figured for material to get the rough done??


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> A deposit?? How many $ do you have figured for material to get the rough done??


Enough to cover the rough labor and rough materials, roughly 40% of the total cost of the job. I have it set up so I am paid for 75% of the job after rough inspection.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Enough to cover the rough labor and rough materials, roughly 40% of the total cost of the job. I have it set up so I am paid for 75% of the job after rough inspection.


 
If its less than 10k in material I never ask for anything up front. I have it set up to get 50% after pass rough and the final 50% after pass final.
Everyone does things differently I guess.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Nice, good luck with it.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> If its less than 10k in material I never ask for anything up front. I have it set up to get 50% after pass rough and the final 50% after pass final.
> Everyone does things differently I guess.


At this point I'm unable to put out $10k in material. IMO that would be foolish to take that amount out of your own pocket and use it somewhere where you haven't collected a dime. I've never worked for this GC before and it's a referral from another electrician I went to school with but who still hasn't gotten his license so take from that what you will but I always get a deposit. I'm not a bank, I'm an electrician.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> At this point I'm unable to put out $10k in material. IMO that would be foolish to take that amount out of your own pocket and use it somewhere where you haven't collected a dime. I've never worked for this GC before and it's a referral from another electrician I went to school with but who still hasn't gotten his license so take from that what you will but I always get a deposit. I'm not a bank, I'm an electrician.


 
I think a lot of people get a little scared if a company needs money for material up front. Lots of people get ripped off. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with doing it your way. Its just not how we do things usually. On jobs where I have more than 10k in material we will get a draw when material is delivered to the site. If I thought the gc wasn't on the up and up I would require a draw when material was delivered. We have been in business since 1974 so the 10k isn't a big deal.....that is unless we don't get paid...That has only happened a few times and is a part of doing business....it happens.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> I think a lot of people get a little scared if a company needs money for material up front. Lots of people get ripped off. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with doing it your way. Its just not how we do things usually. On jobs where I have more than 10k in material we will get a draw when material is delivered to the site. If I thought the gc wasn't on the up and up I would require a draw when material was delivered. We have been in business since 1974 so the 10k isn't a big deal.....that is unless we don't get paid...That has only happened a few times and is a part of doing business....it happens.


Orange store here wants 100 percent payment upfront for any installed cabinetry before they even start the job.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

electricguy said:


> Orange store here wants 100 percent payment upfront for any installed cabinetry before they even start the job.


 
That also is a nationwide company. All the bad contractors who take peoples money and don't complete jobs gives decent honest ones a bad rap.


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## Wingnut (Jan 31, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> At this point I'm unable to put out $10k in material. IMO that would be foolish to take that amount out of your own pocket and use it somewhere where you haven't collected a dime. I've never worked for this GC before and it's a referral from another electrician I went to school with but who still hasn't gotten his license so take from that what you will but I always get a deposit. I'm not a bank, I'm an electrician.


 i agree, most states allow u to collect 25% upfront on a signed contract, for a retainer...why would u conduct business any other way???
:laughing:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

You uh...need some help? :whistling2:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Wingnut said:


> i agree, most states allow u to collect 25% upfront on a signed contract, for a retainer...why would u conduct business any other way???
> :laughing:


 

Lets see I conduct business that way because the customers know a company that doesn't need a draw is most likely in good financial shape and will be there to finish the job.I don't want any of their money till I get my rough. Only on commercial work with a lot in material will I ask for a draw. And then its only for the price of the material and only when delivered. Why would I do business any other way?:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I never ask for money up front.. rather use the "pay as I go" method.

Some people freak out when you ask for a check before starting a job.

I do 1/3 on rough..1/3 on service.. 1/3 on finish and by then people know you can be trusted.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> I never ask for money up front.. rather use the "pay as I go" method.
> 
> Some people freak out when you ask for a check before starting a job.
> 
> I do 1/3 on rough..1/3 on service.. 1/3 on finish and by then people know you can be trusted.


 
I totaly agree. Only on larger commercial jobs have I heard of an EC that is in good shape asking for something up front. However I would if I thought I might have trouble collecting. Also this job may be mulit family so I could see material being high and asking for some when the material is delivered.



Wingnut said:


> i agree, most states allow u to collect 25% upfront on a signed contract, for a retainer...why would u conduct business any other way???
> :laughing:


 
Everyone runs their business how they see fit. Not asking for money up front is how we choose to operate. Is it the best way ,the worst way, the stupid way, IDK. But it works for us.



Good luck Mag! Looks like a good job and I wish you the best!!!!!!


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> You uh...need some help? :whistling2:


You still having probs with a job?...Move back.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> You still having probs with a job?...Move back.


If I head back South, it won't be to New Orleans.

No offense.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> At this point I'm unable to put out $10k in material. IMO that would be foolish to take that amount out of your own pocket and use it somewhere where you haven't collected a dime. I've never worked for this GC before and it's a referral from another electrician I went to school with but who still hasn't gotten his license so take from that what you will but I always get a deposit. I'm not a bank, I'm an electrician.


 Ron if you never worked with this GC do exactly what you stated. Make sure you always stay ahead on money. I would be a little nervous if a GC picked me out of the book for a big job like this one. Good luck.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

What is that place ? an apartment building ?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

50% deposit 30% upon completeion of rough (before inspection) 20% upon completeion of final (before inspection) $100 retainer untill after final is passed. 

if theres only 1 inspection %50 deposit then 50 upon completetion (before inspection) $100 retainer after it passes

This how every contract is written, after we do business a few times I'll bend a little as long as your payments were all made on time.

Dont pay in 29 days you can meet me in the parking lot of the courthouse at 3pm cause 3:15 I am filing.

As someone else here said I'm not in this for fun and I dont need practice.

I only had one slow pay and he literally met me in the parking lot of the courthouse on the 29th day where I was about to file a lien against his homeowner. That was the last gc I worked for.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> If I head back South, it won't be to New Orleans.
> 
> No offense.


Ouch!
:laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Ron if you never worked with this GC do exactly what you stated. Make sure you always stay ahead on money. I would be a little nervous if a GC picked me out of the book for a big job like this one. Good luck.


Referral from an electrician I went to school with who can't do the job because he's not licensed. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Rich R said:


> What is that place ? an apartment building ?


It's a world famous McMansion. Five bedrooms, 5 full bathrooms, 1 half bathroom, 4 furnaces, 4 c/u's, a light lift for the foyer, 300 amp service, 60+ recessed lights, cable, phone, swimming pool, S1's, S3's, S4's, timer switches, spotlights, photocell/ TC lighting circuit, etc.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> It's a world famous McMansion. Five bedrooms, 5 full bathrooms, 1 half bathroom, 4 furnaces, 4 c/u's, a light lift for the foyer, 300 amp service, 60+ recessed lights, cable, phone, swimming pool, S1's, S3's, S4's, timer switches, spotlights, photocell/ TC lighting circuit, etc.


What was the quote?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> It's a world famous McMansion. Five bedrooms, 5 full bathrooms, 1 half bathroom, 4 furnaces, 4 c/u's, a light lift for the foyer, 300 amp service, 60+ recessed lights, cable, phone, swimming pool, S1's, S3's, S4's, timer switches, spotlights, photocell/ TC lighting circuit, etc.


still looks like a squat but damn, way to go, I look forward to something like that myself; price it right and double your labor estimate to CYA!


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

looks one of those buildings in that new show "The Colony"


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> What was the quote?


That's company business, Riv. We'll make a profit if we were smart and efficiently. Fortunately for me I've wired more than a few of these in my day and that experience will benefit me greatly in coming in on time and under budget. The bigger challenge will be taking care of my loyal customers if they need me while I'm working on this project. Whatever it takes until money comes in regularly. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> still looks like a squat but damn, way to go, I look forward to something like that myself; price it right and double your labor estimate to CYA!


Yeah lets hope this is a long-lasting business relationship. Loyalty's hard to come by in this business, but it does exist.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

New construction like that would be nice, I'm mostly service oriented. It will take me a house of that size to test my mettle and make a profit.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> That's company business, Riv. We'll make a profit if we were smart and efficiently. Fortunately for me I've wired more than a few of these in my day and that experience will benefit me greatly in coming in on time and under budget. The bigger challenge will be taking care of my loyal customers if they need me while I'm working on this project. Whatever it takes until money comes in regularly. :thumbsup:


Okay, I don't want you to give out proprietary information. I am not a residential guy and was just wondering?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Yeah lets hope this is a long-lasting business relationship.


Same here you deserve it. 
I don't want to curse you by mentioning all the horror stories on here about bad GC's....ooops. :laughing:


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Hmmmm.... that is a lot of boxes to install, I bet the guy that sells "Smart boxes" is salivating right now. I smell a bulk discount


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Lets play, bid Magnettica's job. How many square feet? What are the electrical loads? Number of services/tenants?


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> It's a world famous McMansion. Five bedrooms, 5 full bathrooms, 1 half bathroom, 4 furnaces, 4 c/u's, a light lift for the foyer, 300 amp service, 60+ recessed lights, cable, phone, swimming pool, S1's, S3's, S4's, timer switches, spotlights, photocell/ TC lighting circuit, etc.


Need help with that pool?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Lets play, bid Magnettica's job. How many square feet? What are the electrical loads? Number of services/tenants?


Go for it! 



> Master Bedroom:
> 
> 7 - Receptacles
> 2 - S3 switches
> ...


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Mag.,

Just one question I was reading your recent quote on the house you are working on it as far for the WIC { walk in closet } with indentsent luminaire that you plan to be on ceiling right ?

Normally with my part I use flourscent.

Merci.
Marc


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Rich R said:


> Hmmmm.... that is a lot of boxes to install, I bet the guy that sells "Smart boxes" is salivating right now. I smell a bulk discount


 


Smart boxes for new work.????...........hmmmmmmmmmm.....:no:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> What was the quote?





Magnettica said:


> That's company business, Riv. We'll make a profit if we were smart and efficiently.


Sounds like a lowballer. :laughing:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Go for it!


$16,750.00 plus$600.00 for the permit.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> $16,750.00 plus$600.00 for the permit.




How much do have in there for material?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> How much do have in there for material?


38% of it is for materials


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> $16,750.00 plus$600.00 for the permit.


If you can do it for that you're hired.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Mag.,
> 
> Just one question I was reading your recent quote on the house you are working on it as far for the WIC { walk in closet } with indentsent luminaire that you plan to be on ceiling right ?
> 
> ...


That's what on the plans. Customer will provide incandescent lighting fixture.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> If you can do it for that you're hired.


Must have been the second walk in closet... you did not say what was in it.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm going to throw out a guestimate. I'm guessing 8000 square feet. And you are re-using the service. Basic install, 3 ways, some cans, no light fixtures. I bet you could make ok money at $25,000 on this.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Without walking through it, I (we) would be well over twice Riveter's quote. Of course it's more expensive where I live than in Kentucky. 
But still...

Mag: How many man-hours are you guessing it will take for rough and finish?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> I'm going to throw out a guestimate. I'm guessing 8000 square feet. And you are re-using the service. Basic install, 3 ways, some cans, no light fixtures. I bet you could make ok money at $25,000 on this.


You are probably closer than me, but I was planning on paying my guys "low scale" and letting them split the RABBIT.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> ... but I was planning on paying my guys "low scale" and letting them split the RABBIT.


:laughing:
Oh wow, nice guy! You're much to kind.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> You are probably closer than me, but I was planning on paying my guys "low scale" and letting them split the RABBIT.


 
LOL! Splitting rabits could get bloody, poor little guys  I just guessed. A friend of mine bids at about 2.65 square foot. I think he's a little low. So I upped it a bit and guessed 8000 square feet. I know some people don't like square foot bids but on a house you can either guess at labor, guesstimate materials or use your historical data and go with a square foot guess. I would factor different services and large loads in though.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> LOL! Splitting rabits could get bloody, poor little guys  I just guessed. A friend of mine bids at about 2.65 square foot. I think he's a little low. So I upped it a bit and guessed 8000 square feet. I know some people don't like square foot bids but on a house you can either guess at labor, guesstimate materials or use your historical data and go with a square foot guess. I would factor different services and large loads in though.


I just guessed and planned on bankruptcy.:no:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I just guessed and planned on bankruptcy.:no:


I think you just guessed and planned on breaking even.
hehe.
How long do you think it would take _you_ to do this job?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> How long do you think it would take _you_ to do this job?


To be honest, I figured about two weeks with two people and then three weeks with five. But, I am not a good estimator.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> To be honest, I figured about two weeks with two people and then three weeks with five. But, I am not a good estimator.


Yeah, I think two weeks, two guys (not idiots) would have it rough inspected.
Maybe one week, two guys and the trim-out is done. 
More or less.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Yeah, I think two weeks, two guys (not idiots) would have it rough inspected.
> Maybe one week, two guys and the trim-out is done.
> More or less.


Well, again, don't take it to the bank. But I do think I could make money...not get rich...but make money. I hope he lets us know how it turns out. Maybe we can all show up and help like HABITAT.:thumbsup:


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Here's the biggest job I ever sold! We start next week.


congrats i hpoe you make alot of money


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Two weeks is busting arse on that. Suppose two good guys that work steady could do alright. Depends on how many glue lams and how hard it is to get around. And how custom it is. If you have to deal with the customer wanting pendants over the bar and centering the dining chandelier and all the rest it eats time.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Two weeks is busting arse on that. Suppose two good guys that work steady could do alright. Depends on how many glue lams and how hard it is to get around. And how custom it is. If you have to deal with the customer wanting pendants over the bar and centering the dining chandelier and all the rest it eats time.


You're correct about that. The job could take two guys a month if it's a hard house to rope.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Two weeks is busting arse on that. Suppose two good guys that work steady could do alright. Depends on how many glue lams and how hard it is to get around. And how custom it is. If you have to deal with the customer wanting pendants over the bar and centering the dining chandelier and all the rest it eats time.


To me, it would be hard to make a lot of money unless the drawings were there to begin with. You cannot play the game of each day the customer comes in and changes their mind as to what they want. Bid on the information they give you at the onset; After that, it would be an extra.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> To me, it would be hard to make a lot of money unless the drawings were there to begin with. You cannot play the game of each day the customer comes in and changes their mind as to what they want. Bid on the information they give you at the onset; After that, it would be an extra.


Well, I'm sure that's what it is. It'd be crazy to go in without a print. 
Hopefully Mag cleans up on some nice change orders though.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Well, I'm sure that's what it is. It'd be crazy to go in without a print.
> Hopefully Mag cleans up on some nice change orders though.


On a job that size I am sure he would.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I did a 5000 sq. fr. house with over a 100 recessed lights.

All the ones on the first floor had to be altered to fit on "I" floor beams 12" on center.

Those were all H-7 and it was tight. 

Only good thing was drilling out the "I" beams.. I took the handle off my Hole Hawg and put in a 4"... 13/16" spade bit.. went through like hot knife in butter. :thumbsup:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I did a 5000 sq. fr. house with over a 100 recessed lights.
> 
> All the ones on the first floor had to be altered to fit on "I" floor beams 12" on center.
> 
> ...


Couldn't you just go over the I beams? Maybe I don't see the whole picture.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm very willing to bet there isn't a set of electrical plans on this house. Just the nature of the beast. It's a walk through with the owner and sharpie on the studs. I'm betting Mag bid off his historical data.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Couldn't you just go over the I beams? Maybe I don't see the whole picture.


I tried, but the 3/4 plywood of the floor above got in the way :laughing:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> I'm very willing to bet there isn't a set of electrical plans on this house. Just the nature of the beast. It's a walk through with the owner and sharpie on the studs. I'm betting Mag bid off his historical data.


I hope there are drawings. The drawings, as they were given to me to bid on a job were the only thing that saved my butt in court when I was seeking payment.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> On a job that size I am sure he would.


I haven't done any high end resi this year but I've done a lot of it in the recent past. Changes are a daily thing. I learned the hard way to get them all signed off by the GC before I proceeded with any changes. 

Actually this is one of the main reasons why these jobs take a long time... meetings. I recall many three hour long walk through with the GC, designers, home owners, LV contractors etc. Not to mention thirty minutes every day with jobsite supes and foremen. 
:yawn:

I felt like:

Just gimme a damn kitchen remodel for gods sake.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I hope there are drawings. The drawings, as they were given to me to bid on a job were the only thing that saved my butt in court when I was seeking payment.


What are these things called _drawings_ that you speak of :blink:

Almost every set I have seen never made it past the front door :laughing:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

A house like that is ripe for change orders. Document everything, every minute spent doing something not in your bid, and changing things that are. Make sure the person writing the checks is aware of what is an extra, and if possible get paid for extras immediately


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I did a 5000 sq. fr. house with over a 100 recessed lights.
> 
> All the ones on the first floor had to be altered to fit on "I" floor beams 12" on center.
> 
> ...


You drilled the I beams?!?
Damn, I'm surprised anyone let you do that. I can see an architect having an aneurism over that.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> You drilled the I beams?!?
> Damn, I'm surprised anyone let you do that. I can see an architect having an aneurism over that.


Not a problem at all... first thing I did was download a spec from the manufacture and stapled it to a piece of plywood for all to see. :thumbsup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I think he's talking about the ones that are like plywood in the middle that have the holes that you can punch out with a hammer that never line up


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Couldn't you just go over the I beams? Maybe I don't see the whole picture.


You can go over them, sometimes. Sometimes there is a bit of space between beam and sub-floor that you can drill through. Sometimes, you have to go around the beams.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> I think he's talking about the ones that are like plywood in the middle that have the holes that you can punch out with a hammer that never line up


I think he's talking about the red iron beams.
:blink:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Not a problem at all... first thing I did was download a spec from the manufacture and stapled it to a piece of plywood for all to see. :thumbsup:


I need that spec for the future brother.
:thumbsup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I think he's talking about the red iron beams.
> :blink:


It must be one hell of a spade bit to do that.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> I need that spec for the future brother.
> :thumbsup:


See page 9.. http://www.ilevel.com/literature/TJ-4000.pdf


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> It must be one hell of a spade bit to do that.


Haha! Seriously. 
Maybe he is talking about Glulam. With those I usually knockout as much of those pre-stamped k/o's, try and line em up, but yeah, I drill them too.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> See page 9.. http://www.ilevel.com/literature/TJ-4000.pdf


Okay, I thought you meant the red beams. Not tru-joist.
Yeah, no worries.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> You drilled the I beams?!?
> Damn, I'm surprised anyone let you do that. I can see an architect having an aneurism over that.


I think he's talking about the ones that are made out of 1/2" plywood and a 2x3 on top and bottom. Those even have a perforated knockout every so often, but the carpenters never run them in the same direction so they line up.

The biggest house I ever wired was about 8500 sq/ft with about 250 cans. 
It took another guy and me about 3 weeks to rough in what was on the original bid. It had 16' vaulted ceilings in a lot of it, if it wasn't for that we could have done it in about 2 weeks.

We wound up being there for 6 weeks on the rough in because they kept changing and adding stuff. 
That was just the rough in, no service. The service was already in when I got there.


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## kub (May 27, 2009)

i just finished a 12k sq ft house, 360 cans 92 outside alone, 600a service, 8 hvac systems , 20kw genny, 3 full kitchens,i think we figured 32k ft of romex, 700ft 4/0 ser, 12k ft of cat5e for phone and ethernet, 8k ft rg6 quad. Its fun doing houses this big for about the first week then it gets old for me. Took about 2+ months to rough with all the changes and about a month to finish. and let me tell you the ho''s have thee worst taste i've ever seen( we have about 35 man hours in just hanging crystals on chandlier's):no:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

kub said:


> i just finished a 12k sq ft house, 360 cans 92 outside alone, 600a service, 8 hvac systems , 20kw genny, 3 full kitchens,i think we figured 32k ft of romex, 700ft 4/0 ser, 12k ft of cat5e for phone and ethernet, 8k ft rg6 quad. Its fun doing houses this big for about the first week then it gets old for me. Took about 2+ months to rough with all the changes and about a month to finish. and let me tell you the ho''s have thee worst taste i've ever seen( we have about 35 man hours in just hanging crystals on chandlier's):no:


92 ext cans and 8 zones... plus all the rest.

Photos?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> I'm very willing to bet there isn't a set of electrical plans on this house. Just the nature of the beast. It's a walk through with the owner and sharpie on the studs. I'm betting Mag bid off his historical data.


There's electrical plans, but no wiring plans. 

For example, one room will say two single pole switches, and have 1 vanity light location, and 1 exhaust fan.

It's not rocket science and like I originally said, there's plenty of room for extras and change orders. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> There's electrical plans, but no wiring plans.
> 
> For example, one room will say two single pole switches, and have 1 vanity light location, and 1 exhaust fan.
> 
> It's not rocket science and like I originally said, there's plenty of room for extras and change orders. :thumbsup:


 
Is temp power part of your job or 100' cords plugged into one working outlet?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Is temp power part of your job or 100' cords plugged into one working outlet?


 
One outlet? Nah man there is a quad receptacle in a pvc box out in the yard...:whistling2::jester:


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## Brandon H (Aug 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Go for it!


I would not even touch that for anything less then 38,000 :thumbsup:


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## kub (May 27, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> 92 ext cans and 8 zones... plus all the rest.
> 
> Photos?


i'm going to take pics next time im there doing punchlist stuff. i'll post em.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Is temp power part of your job or 100' cords plugged into one working outlet?


Was not on the plans but I will provide a duplex GFCI receptacle somewhere so I don't have to run 100's of feet of extension cords. I need one actually on each side of the house. It's not my responsibility to provide electrical power during the course of construction. That's a billable item. The GC can pay it or have all his subs pissed off because they have to use a generator. There is existing electrical service there and it is energized.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Was not on the plans but I will provide a duplex GFCI receptacle somewhere so I don't have to run 100's of feet of extension cords. I need one actually on each side of the house. It's not my responsibility to provide electrical power during the course of construction. That's a billable item. The GC can pay it or have all his subs pissed off because they have to use a generator. There is existing electrical service there and it is energized.


I did not see it on your list.. why I asked. :thumbsup:

I always put a 1900 box on the DW circuit and (2) receptacles.

No GFI.. that will get beat up by the time the job is complete.. let the trades use those portable GFI's if they are working outside.

The DW line can stay hot till the finish and the parts get reused on the next job.

Now I wonder if you HAVE to use GFI protection on jobsites..indoors


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Now I wonder if you HAVE to use GFI protection on jobsites..indoors


Yes you do, and should.
:thumbsup:


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## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Yes you do, and should.
> :thumbsup:


Fo Sheez...who wants to have to use a plug in gfci adapter?


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Nildogg said:


> Fo Sheez...who wants to have to use a plug in gfci adapter?


 Someone that doesn't wan't a big azz OSHA fine.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I did not see it on your list.. why I asked. :thumbsup:
> 
> I always put a 1900 box on the DW circuit and (2) receptacles.
> 
> ...


 I usually always have a small stock of beat up GFCI's that still work. I use those for temp power. I usually also provide temp power and light on most jobs. The cost is already figured in.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I just don't feel good about myself if I don't use GFI's for the temp power. I generally have enough ragged-out GFCI's to do the job. 

On truss joists... I've found that a unibit goes through I-joists slicker than snot. I've tried pretty much everything, but the unibit wins out so far. A hole-hawg bit is a close second.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I just don't feel good about myself if I don't use GFI's for the temp power. I generally have enough ragged-out GFCI's to do the job.
> 
> On truss joists... I've found that a unibit goes through I-joists slicker than snot. I've tried pretty much everything, but the unibit wins out so far. A hole-hawg bit is a close second.


I don't like using a unibit on anything but metal. Maybe it's just me.


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## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> I don't like using a unibit on anything but metal. Maybe it's just me.


Only on weak metal..don't waste them on stainless..


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Nildogg said:


> Only on weak metal..don't waste them on stainless..


Why really? I can use a k/o set for damn near anything but I can use a up to 1" unibit for a lot too. 

Lot faster.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I don't like using a unibit on anything but metal. Maybe it's just me.


I never thought they'd be good on anything but metal either, but try one on your next I-joist job. You might be surprised.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I never thought they'd be good on anything but metal either, but try one on your next I-joist job. You might be surprised.


ehhh, what the heck, I'll give it a shot.

My question is: Does it kill the Unibit?


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## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Why really? I can use a k/o set for damn near anything but I can use a up to 1" unibit for a lot too.
> 
> Lot faster.


 
I pay too much for unibits to blow 'em out...cheaper to get the right size bit or hog.....


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> ehhh, what the heck, I'll give it a shot.
> 
> My question is: Does it kill the Unibit?


Not as far as I can tell. I did a 3-story motel in MC cable with the same unibit for the whole job.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Not as far as I can tell. I did a 3-story motel in MC cable with the same unibit for the whole job.


That'll work. Did it cut metal after that? Not that matters, if you did all of that drilling it'd be worth the cost of one unibit.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> That'll work. Did it cut metal after that? Not that matters, if you did all of that drilling it'd be worth the cost of one unibit.


I'm not sure. I can't remember throwing out a unibit since that job, so maybe so?


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## Nildogg (Jul 29, 2010)

I have unibits and holesaws and they all work so I can take out any hole you want Who's next?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Nildogg said:


> I have unibits and holesaws and they all work so I can take out any hole you want Who's next?


The middle web of a TJI is OSB. Hole saws certainly work in OSB, but they take a long time and it dulls the teeth fast. Pretty much everything works, but I've found that unibits are the fastest, and hole-hawg bits are the second fastest. The regular naileater bits don't have enough meat for the screw to grab into the pull them through. Spade bits (paddle bits) work well also, but they're typically made of inferior steel and dull quickly.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I would put a spade bit against a uni-bit and even give odds.. the thing was FAST


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Now this guy doesn't want to give me a deposit and wants me to put out all the money for materials. Then he'll give me a check after the first week. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Now this guy doesn't want to give me a deposit and wants me to put out all the money for materials. Then he'll give me a check after the first week. :no:


Did he agree to give you a check before this last conversation?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Now this guy doesn't want to give me a deposit and wants me to put out all the money for materials. Then he'll give me a check after the first week. :no:


 
Its pretty standard here not to get any money up front. 
What I would do is to tell him as soon as material is delivered you get a draw for materials. Make sure he knows he has to provide a place to secure them as well. If they are stolen its on him.


OR set up an escrow account for materials if both of you are scared you will get screwed.


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## user438 (Jun 6, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Now this guy doesn't want to give me a deposit and wants me to put out all the money for materials. Then he'll give me a check after the first week. :no:


 
Have your supplier create a separate job account, that will allow them to lien the owner if you don't get paid and won't affect your regular account


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I had to go straighten this guy out and did. I'm getting a check for the amount I want on Monday morning. I have no problem putting out a couple of hundred dollars for boxes but not thousands. No way, not in this economy, and never for someone I've never done business with. That's why i am bonded, and carry a license, so people know I am a legit business man. I can't even believe I just said, me a legit business man.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I had to go straighten this guy out and did. I'm getting a check for the amount I want on Monday morning. I have no problem putting out a couple of hundred dollars for boxes but not thousands. No way, not in this economy, and never for someone I've never done business with. That's why i am bonded, and carry a license, so people know I am a legit business man. I can't even believe I just said, me a legit business man.


 
Can you blame the guy for not wanting to pony up money up front? There is probably more crooked contractors than crooked customers.
I'm glad it worked out for you. The good thing about being the boss is you get to decide the rules.:thumbsup:


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> me a legit business man.


Mr. Magnettica!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You never hear about the "electrician' screwing over anyone.. it is always the builder or GC who is the dirtbag.

We have to jump through hoops to get our license and never abuse it or one of our customers.

They should make a GC pass some kind of test and need trade school to get a license.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> Can you blame the guy for not wanting to pony up money up front? There is probably more crooked contractors than crooked customers.
> I'm glad it worked out for you. The good thing about being the boss is you get to decide the rules.:thumbsup:



I know that's how you do your business but I disagree with that philosophy completely. There's no way I would put out thousands of dollars like that for materials and then 2 weeks labor without getting some money up front. This GC wanted to pay me 1/3 after the first week, another 1/3 after the rough inspection, and the final 1/3 after final inspection. We worked it out so we get something to get started then after the 1st week we get some more. This works for him, works for us, and gets me back to work after a few weeks of practically nothing. 

And..... I just got a call for what will likely be a service upgrade tomorrow too.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> You never hear about the "electrician' screwing over anyone.. it is always the builder or GC who is the dirtbag.
> 
> We have to jump through hoops to get our license and never abuse it or one of our customers.
> 
> They should make a GC pass some kind of test and need trade school to get a license.


 

You haven't seen our state electrical boards quarterly newsletter then:whistling2:

They list a whole bunch of crooked guys in every one.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> You never hear about the "electrician' screwing over anyone.. it is always the builder or GC who is the dirtbag.
> 
> We have to jump through hoops to get our license and never abuse it or one of our customers.
> 
> They should make a GC pass some kind of test and need trade school to get a license.


Suggesting the EC is the crooked one is like saying Christians are the real terrorists. :thumbsup:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Its pretty standard here not to get any money up front.
> What I would do is to tell him as soon as material is delivered you get a draw for materials. Make sure he knows he has to provide a place to secure them as well. If they are stolen its on him.
> 
> 
> OR set up an escrow account for materials if both of you are scared you will get screwed.


That's pretty much the same thing jw, draw or deposit. Not much difference really. Both make a lot of sense.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> You haven't seen our state electrical boards quarterly newsletter then:whistling2:
> 
> They list a whole bunch of crooked guys in every one.


Are there ever electricians making that list?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Are there ever electricians making that list?


 
Its all electricians and unlicensed guys getting caught. We had 142 complaints against licensed EC's. 17 contractual/financial disputes. Most cases the guys didn't complete the work when paid to do so.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> Its all electricians and unlicensed guys getting caught. We had 142 complaints against licensed EC's. 17 contractual/financial disputes. Most cases the guys didn't complete the work when paid to do so.


So what does the gov't do?

I hate when jerk offs like that give us all a bad name. I've never had a problem securing a deposit to begin work. Usually though deposits are less than $1,000.00 but this house was obviously a pretty big chunk of change. Having a signed contract is so important.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> So what does the gov't do?
> 
> I hate when jerk offs like that give us all a bad name. I've never had a problem securing a deposit to begin work. Usually though deposits are less than $1,000.00 but this house was obviously a pretty big chunk of change. Having a signed contract is so important.


 

Depends on what you did. You may have your license suspended, get fined, lose your license or serve jail time.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Can you blame the guy for not wanting to pony up money up front? There is probably more crooked contractors than crooked customers.
> I'm glad it worked out for you. The good thing about being the boss is you get to decide the rules.:thumbsup:


 


I can't blame him a bit. He didn't know Magnettica either. They are both strangers. It's been my experience that most of te time, asking for money down scares customers off.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Here, we have a "Minutes" page that lists everything that goes on, including business violations. The problem is they use numbers (53:A23U8) and dont list what the violation is.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I can't blame him a bit. He didn't know Magnettica either. They are both strangers. It's been my experience that most of te time, asking for money down scares customers off.


 
I agree totally. Its like that here. I usually don't even submit a request for a draw after the rough. I usually wait and bill at the end for the whole job on all but the biggest jobs. I would have no problem asking for the escrow account if I had any doubts about receiving payment though.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Here, we have a "Minutes" page that lists everything that goes on, including business violations. The problem is they use numbers (53:A23U8) and dont list what the violation is.


 
Here they list:
case file number
licensee
add
listed qualified person
license number
violations complete with statute(s) violated
board action
court action if jail time is ordered


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## Sawyer (Aug 21, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> The middle web of a TJI is OSB. Hole saws certainly work in OSB, but they take a long time and it dulls the teeth fast. Pretty much everything works, but I've found that unibits are the fastest, and hole-hawg bits are the second fastest. The regular naileater bits don't have enough meat for the screw to grab into the pull them through. Spade bits (paddle bits) work well also, but they're typically made of inferior steel and dull quickly.


What is the difference between a hole-hawg bit and naileater?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Mag .,

If the customer provided the luminaires to you there one thing you should have that in the writing is the customer provied luminaire will not cover on the warranty at all.

I have to make that writing long time ago so they will know that I will not deal with that unless I order the luminarie then I can honer the luminaire warranty.

Merci.
Marc


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Mag .,
> 
> If the customer provided the luminaires to you there one thing you should have that in the writing is the customer provied luminaire will not cover on the warranty at all.
> 
> ...


Good point about the warranty. I had TOOL set me straight with that among other things. I don't know where I'd be if it weren't for the help I've gotten here and at CT. You guys are the best. :thumbup:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Good point about the warranty. I had TOOL set me straight with that among other things. I don't know where I'd be if it weren't for the help I've gotten here and at CT. You guys are the best. :thumbup:


Pas de problème { No problem } 

That what we are here for :thumbup::thumbsup:

Merci.
Marc


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> That's pretty much the same thing jw, draw or deposit. Not much difference really. Both make a lot of sense.


 

There is a big difference in a deposit and a draw.

A deposit is when the customer gives you money toward the final cost of the job. You have done no actual work and no material is ordered. Customer is hoping he hasn't made a mistake giving you money up front.

A draw is what you get after some actual work has taken place or material has been delivered. A customer may not want to give a deposit but most don't mind doing a draw after material has arrived on site. They see where the money they gave you went.


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## NY ELECTRIC (Sep 27, 2009)

40,000 is my bid


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## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

Congrats - hope all goes well and you make good money on it.


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

So it stands at somewhere between $16500 to $40000?

I guess there really ISN'T a going rate...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

millerdrr said:


> So it stands at somewhere between $16500 to $40000?
> 
> I guess there really ISN'T a going rate...


Of course there is a *going rate* per item

A job that size will have numbers all over the place.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Per item is the way to go. This per item technique will come in real handy when I begin to add up all the extras! The job was priced by what the architect had put on the prints. 

Were their glaringly missing items on the print? Oh yes there were. But had I priced the job on what I thought it would cost versus just throwing in the missing items (like dimmers, switches, receptacles), then I wouldn't have gotten the job. Now I can make a profit and feel proud of the work our company did.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Per item is the way to go. This per item technique will come in real handy when I begin to add up all the extras! The job was priced by what the architect had put on the prints.
> 
> Were their glaringly missing items on the print? Oh yes there were. But had I priced the job on what I thought it would cost versus just throwing in the missing items (like dimmers, switches, receptacles), then I wouldn't have gotten the job. Now I can make a profit and feel proud of the work our company did.


 
Just make sure you have nice thick change order tablet ready for it kaching extra money comming in.

Merci.
Marc


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Now this guy doesn't want to give me a deposit and wants me to put out all the money for materials. Then he'll give me a check after the first week. :no:





jwjrw said:


> Can you blame the guy for not wanting to pony up money up front? There is probably more crooked contractors than crooked customers.





mcclary's electrical said:


> I can't blame him a bit. He didn't know Magnettica either. They are both strangers. It's been my experience that most of te time, asking for money down scares customers off.


Do you guys think the GC started the job without any money? I would bet my left nut he demanded money up front. As he should. He should also be willing to put up some money the the subs regardless of them being strangers or not. That is actually more of a reason to get some money to start. If he is that worried about you ripping him off he should not be hiring you to begin with.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I agree they have money they just dont like to give it out. They like to string you out like a crack head.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Hey Magnettica,
I would consider adding CAT5 or 6 to the TV's for future upgrades. Present it to the owner, it will be cheaper to do now than later.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

LARMGUY said:


> Hey Magnettica,
> I would consider adding CAT5 or 6 to the TV's for future upgrades. Present it to the owner, it will be cheaper to do now than later.


Then why would I want to do it now? :laughing:


Coming down the stretch on this one now, as far as rough wiring goes. 

Still have all the HVAC stuff to do, a light lift, now we're finishing the basement (extra), time clock for driveway lights (extra), 36 additional recessed lights (extra), 2nd floor sub panel (extra), plus two MB panels connected to an existing 300 amp service (with a broken meter).


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## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

Mags- hope the job is going well, and you are making a profit.

Any pictures?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

How far along are you Mag on this one? Are you through?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Then why would I want to do it now? :laughing:
> 
> 
> Coming down the stretch on this one now, as far as rough wiring goes.
> ...


What no pictures?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Do you guys think the GC started the job without any money? I would bet my left nut he demanded money up front. As he should. He should also be willing to put up some money the the subs regardless of them being strangers or not. That is actually more of a reason to get some money to start. If he is that worried about you ripping him off he should not be hiring you to begin with.


 

Any gc that needs money "upfront" I would not use. If you tell me when the material is deleivered I want x amount to cover materials then I say ok. But if you want me to finance YOUR business then take a hike. Running a business is a risk. Your risk. We don't ask for a dime till after the rough and on jobs less than 5k I dont even submit an invoice till the final inspection is passed. I won't paint. I hate it. If I pay someone off craigslist to come paint my house I expect to have to buy the materials and provide them and pay daily. But if I hire a contractor I expect him to cover HIS expenses to do the job. If he says 20% down after material is deleivered I'm ok with that. But giving money up front is a bad idea for any consumer. IMO


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

As a consumer I fully expect to put some money down up front to show I am not just shopping.

When I had my roof done, when I had some masonry work done I gave them some money to get going.


As far as an EC I will be honest here, I get a bad vibe about this whole job from all the way up in MA. I would be very careful about how much I extend to this un-known GC.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> As a consumer I fully expect to put some money down up front to show I am not just shopping.
> 
> When I had my roof done, when I had some masonry work done I gave them some money to get going.
> 
> ...


 
I have no problem providing money the minute the material hits the job. But I'm not financing his business for him.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

In this situation it would be money first then buy stuff. If the GC can't provide the money, I would not shell out my own to buy material.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Any gc that needs money "upfront" I would not use. If you tell me when the material is deleivered I want x amount to cover materials then I say ok. But if you want me to finance YOUR business then take a hike. Running a business is a risk. Your risk. We don't ask for a dime till after the rough and on jobs less than 5k I dont even submit an invoice till the final inspection is passed. I won't paint. I hate it. If I pay someone off craigslist to come paint my house I expect to have to buy the materials and provide them and pay daily. But if I hire a contractor I expect him to cover HIS expenses to do the job. If he says 20% down after material is deleivered I'm ok with that. But giving money up front is a bad idea for any consumer. IMO


 


I decided to mimmick part of my business, after yours. In the past, I was unsure where to draw the line for money down. I read your post before about drawing the line at 10,000. I think that's the perfect place to draw the line.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> In this situation it would be money first then buy stuff. If the GC can't provide the money, I would not shell out my own to buy material.


 

I just think it screams I'm in trouble and can't run a business if you need money up front. Say I have the material deleivered and then you can't pay. I can return the material for my money back. If I can't cover the material cost than I shouldn't be doing the job..

As a consumer I would not give a dime to someone till I saw something in return...As in the material deleivered. Call me crazy but I think its a bad idea to use any company that needs payment up front. That means to me they are broke or close to it.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I just think it screams I'm in trouble and can't run a business if you need money up front. Say I have the material deleivered and then you can't pay. I can return the material for my money back. If I can't cover the material cost than I shouldn't be doing the job..
> 
> As a consumer I would not give a dime to someone till I saw something in return...As in the material deleivered. Call me crazy but I think its a bad idea to use any company that needs payment up front. That means to me they are broke or close to it.


I would do it in this situation as a test. The GC called just randomly, seems like it could be a rip off.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I decided to mimmick part of my business, after yours. In the past, I was unsure where to draw the line for money down. I read your post before about drawing the line at 10,000. I think that's the perfect place to draw the line.


 
It works well for us. I as a consumer am very suspicious of anyone needing money upfront. You hear many more stories of customers getting screwed than contractors. The best compromise if you are not comfortable is to set up a material draw. Both parties should feel more at ease with that.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> You hear many more stories of customers getting screwed than contractors.


Only cause custommers b1tch about it more. And they have Holmes on Homes, to blow everything out of proportion.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I have no problem providing money the minute the material hits the job. But I'm not financing his business for him.


For me it is not about financing the job, if I thought that was what I was doing I would move on.

I am talking about a sign of being committed to doing the project.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I just think it screams I'm in trouble and can't run a business if you need money up front.


I don't think that it says that at all when we are talking about two parties that do not know each other at all.

In this thread if I recall correctly this GC called Mag out of the blue with a nice job, to me that is an odd thing and raises a flag.

Where are the ECs that this GC used to use and why is he not using them now?

There may well be a perfectly sound explanition for it but before I put my money on the line I would want to hear about it.




> Say I have the material deleivered and then you can't pay. I can return the material for my money back. If I can't cover the material cost than I shouldn't be doing the job..


Even without a restocking charge you just lost money.



> As a consumer I would not give a dime to someone till I saw something in return.


I bet you have if you really think about it.



> Call me crazy but I think its a bad idea to use any company that needs payment up front. That means to me they are broke or close to it.


If they 'need it' that is a bad sign, if they expect it as a matter of policy I have no problem with it.

Go buy some custom windows at HD, try to do it without money down, is that because HD cannot afford to operate or just that they are not into getting screwed?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

*deposits*

I have no problem asking for deposits on 10K and higher jobs. I was awarded a job in August of 2007. The cable (type W) for the project was about $32K. I got a $17K deposit before I would order the wire. Good thing I did. When the chit hit the fan, the project stopped before the wire was delivered to the jobsite (it was in my possession). It took me 7 months to get paid and the only reason I did is because I told them I was going to sell the wire for what I could and keep the $17K and have the contract cancelled. They would be out the wire and the $17K, I would be close to breaking even. I could have purchased the wire without the deposit but am sure glad I didn't.

Yea, I get deposits to keep the customer honest.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> For me it is not about financing the job, if I thought that was what I was doing I would move on.
> 
> I am talking about a sign of being committed to doing the project.


 

I can see that but if you are worried and they are worried the deposit when the material is delivered goes a long way to developing a little trust. Where as as a consumer its a big leap of faith. A lot of customers use HD and Blue for work because they feel the national chain won't not finish the job or any number of other things that bad ec's (crooks)do.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

In the case of my roofer why should I expect him to place an order for a particular color and style of shingle based on just my word when he does not know me from Adam?

I just do not see that he should be expected to make that 'leap of faith' with so many customers that bail out on projects.

See Lou's post above for an example of it happening in our trade.

For you, I think you should do whatever works for you. I am just saying I don't see it as an automatic red flag if a contractor wants some money down.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> I don't think that it says that at all when we are talking about two parties that do not know each other at all.
> 
> In this thread if I recall correctly this GC called Mag out of the blue with a nice job, to me that is an odd thing and raises a flag.
> 
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I haven't learned to multi quote posts within the same post yet.


Don't even bother with using the multi quote option. Just type it out manually. Put (quote) before and (/quote) after the text you want to quote, only change the parentheses that I used to brackets.

(quote) I haven't learned to multi quote posts within the same post yet. (/quote)

Now type your reply.

(quote) My name is jwjrw and I like flying kites. (/quote) 

Type your next reply.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Don't even bother with using the multi quote option. Just type it out manually. Put "quote" before and "/quote" after the text you want to quote, only change the parentheses that I used to brackets.
> 
> "quote" I haven't learned to multi quote posts within the same post yet. "/quote"
> 
> ...


I don't see any parentheses.

:jester:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I don't see any parentheses.
> 
> :jester:


You aren't looking hard enough :sneaky2:


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