# White Powder



## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

OK so I knew that would get some attention. 

I got these pics from a home inspection, I have to go look at it and give an opinion. It's an outdoor all in one (very common here). Besides the white powder there is signs of heat on the bus. I see rust coloration between some of the breakers in one of the pics also. My guess is water intrusion. I have seen slight deposits of the powder before in outdoor panels, always right there at the terminal screw, but never this much. Anyone familiar with it?


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

You found their stash. Collect cash to keep it quiet.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Meanwhile, at the breaker factory.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Taste it and see.


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

Some type of salt? What are the environmental conditions like? Is there any powder in the bottom of the can, or just on the breakers?


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

RFguy said:


> Some type of salt? What are the environmental conditions like? Is there any powder in the bottom of the can, or just on the breakers?


Dry desert. Don't know if it's in the bottom of the can till I go out there. I think if there was any in the bottom of the can the HI would have mentioned it.

Like I said I've seen small bits of it before right at the breaker screws, but never this much. Seems like it's always ITE/Siemans/Murray type breakers too. I will probably tell them water intrusion, and that I cannot guarantee anything short of a panel replacement.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I'm going to guess that this isn't heat, but rather some sort of chemical vapor. 

If the bus got hot enough to become discolored, it would have melted the plastic behind it. 

Odd as this may sound, was the garbage can below the panel? 

The discoloration of the bus looks sort of like a weak attack by hydrogen sulfide gas. 

This is not the absolute truth of course, it's just one possibility.


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

Maybe sacrifice one breaker and cut it apart to see if it appears to be originating from inside the breaker?


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

I've seen similar discoloration right out if the box, although not to that extent. As for the white powder, I'm guessing maybe Borax or something like that. Possibly just a pest control product applied by an overly anal pest control guy.


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## Pastor Hogg (Dec 28, 2013)

It is more than likely coming from inside the breakers I see it a lot here in tn and I've taken some apart and that's been the culprit or source of the problem


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

Pastor Hogg said:


> It is more than likely coming from inside the breakers I see it a lot here in tn and I've taken some apart and that's been the culprit or source of the problem


If that's true then that just reinforces my thought that Siemans/ITE are crap.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

One other thought. It's the scrapings from a screwdriver used to tighten the connection. There's a white compound at the screw location in the breaker.

Although that is a lot of stuff.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I see the same thing on those breakers here too. If you get a new one, the white powder is solidified right where it is coming from. I'm not sure why it does that, maybe a good question to pose to Siemens/Murray?


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

them crazy tweakers


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Skipping ahead Ive seen that before. Its the cement used to hold the adjustment screw. For some reason on some breakers it cracks into a powdery residue. Replace the breakers and let the Company know.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

I see cutler hammer breakers in an ITE box, could explain the heat damage:whistling2:


Just to add the powered isn't from water damage or heat but rather a chemical defect for those breakers.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

It appears to be burning bakelite from what I have seen. in the past. Go ahead open on up and you'll see what I mean.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I agree with Switched. I would get the local Siemens rep's email address and send those pictures to him with WTF?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

It is a Meth lab?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Is there any way moisture can get in there? I've seen that on outdoor panels etc. It's looks like oxidized aluminum.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I've seen that powder form on severely oxidized aluminum, but never on breakers like that. Interested to know what the internal on one of those breakers looks like.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

It's because of moisture intrusion. 
That happens for the same reason dew is on the outside of a cars window in the summer and condensation is on the inside during the winter. 
The temp inside the panel is not the same as the exterior. 

I see that all the time here. It takes a longer time to get that bad. To bad you can't vent the new panel. Like an attic you need to get the inside temp the same as the outside temp as quickly as possible. But you can't because you will loose your listing. That over heating of the buss will make it worse if it happens often. ie: parking lot lights & such.


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

I think those who mentioned it is the white blob that comes on these breakers disintegrating may be correct. All the times I have seen this it is those breakers with that white spot on them, and I always suspected it was flaking off. Just never saw it piled up that high before.

From the rust marks on the breakers I am sure the door got left open. We see it a lot, people just can't figure out how to latch those panels where you have to lift the door.


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Im surprised shockdoc hasnt popped in


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Joefixit2 said:


> OK so I knew that would get some attention.
> 
> I got these pics from a home inspection, I have to go look at it and give an opinion. It's an outdoor all in one (very common here). Besides the white powder there is signs of heat on the bus. I see rust coloration between some of the breakers in one of the pics also. My guess is water intrusion. I have seen slight deposits of the powder before in outdoor panels, always right there at the terminal screw, but never this much. Anyone familiar with it?


It really got my attention, as well. Here in Kentucky it is a sensitive subject. A number of years back in the middle of a University of Kentucky football game...the game was held up because of a suspicious white powder on the field. All players were ordered to the locker room for about 30 minutes while local police and FBI were called in. It was a powder that none of the UK players had seen. The game resumed in a half hour since the strange powder was determined to be the goal line.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

wendon said:


> Is there any way moisture can get in there? I've seen that on outdoor panels etc. It's looks like oxidized aluminum.


Under the right conditions oxidizing aluminum will form sapphires. Try again.


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