# non grounded 2 wire tamper resistant outlet



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Do they even make 2-wire tamper resistant rec's? Did you work on that rec? Why did he ask you to change it?


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## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

I've made inquiries at several manufacturers and they indicated that they don't intend to manufacture any tamper resistant 2 wire receptacles


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

If it was existing I don't think the inspector can make you change it.

If you do decide to appease the inspector anyway you could use a 3 wire tamper resistant receptacle with GFCI protection.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

itsunclebill said:


> I've made inquiries at several manufacturers and they indicated that they don't intend to manufacture any tamper resistant 2 wire receptacles


 I thought so.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> If it was existing I don't think the inspector can make you change it.
> 
> If you do decide to appease the inspector anyway you could use a 3 wire tamper resistant receptacle with GFCI protection.


 I agree, If you didn't touch those recs SCREW that inspector.:thumbsup:


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Can you still run a single grounding wire to a cold water line to create a grounding receptacle?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Can you still run a single grounding wire to a cold water line to create a grounding receptacle?


That's still legal in Canada, but under the current NEC rules you're going to have to run that back to the panel. Well, actually, there's a couple places you can run it back to, but a nearby water line is not one of them.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bobelectric said:


> Can you still run a single grounding wire to a cold water line to create a grounding receptacle?


 I don't think you can still do that.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Home Inspector catch.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bobelectric said:


> Home Inspector catch.


 :001_huh:


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Home Inspector catch.


I'm afraid I would tell him to go take a flying leap.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm afraid I would tell him to go take a flying leap.


Home inspectors operate on a different level. They can't "order" anything to be done. They simply make a list of observations of things that aren't as safe (or as efficient or as functional) as they potentially could be if more effort were put into it. It's up to the buyer and seller to come to some agreement about how many, if any, of the observations of the home inspector will be tended to. 

For instance, in a kitchen, a home inspector's list might say that the countertop receptacles are not GFCI protected (safety), the range exhaust hood is not equipped with a backdraft damper (efficiency) and that the left rear stove burner does not appear to operate on the day of the visit (functional). 

That said, it does seem a little silly for a home inspector to recommend 2-prong TR recs if they aren't even made. It's pretty unusual for any home inspector to recommend a particular repair or remediation method. More commonly, in this situation, they'd simply point out that TR recs are safer than what's installed or that the existing 3-prong receptacles are ungrounded and don't appear to be GFCI protected. They typically only make observations and, by design, stop short of recommending any particular repair protocol.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I don't like to recommend gfi receptacle instead of grounded rcpts,because of the lack of grounds for electronic stuff.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> I don't like to recommend gfi receptacle instead of grounded rcpts,because of the lack of grounds for electronic stuff.


Yes, the point of use TVSS's popularly used to protect electronic gear don't really do squat without a ground at the receptacle. I push people to have a new circuit run to that stuff, simply to get a grounded receptacle or two. Other than the TVSS functionality, I'd be hard pressed to come up with another compelling reason why you must have a ground for your electronic gear. Having said that, it's pretty easy to sell misinformed customers on the need for grounded receptacles for computers and electronics. They don't have to understand anything... "grounding" just sounds like a fine idea to the consumer with electronic equipment, and as such, they're easily sold on the idea.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Greg said:


> I'm afraid I would tell him to go take a flying leap.


 Or a long walk on a short pier.:whistling2:


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## eagleeye (Sep 15, 2009)

thanks for all of the feedback, this house that i bid to do work on had been red tagged after hurricane ike, and was on the block to be demo'd because the repairs had not been completed in a time frame the city found acceptable. the owners of the home were advised that all services, plumbing, hvac, elec,structure etc... had to be up to code to be cleared, i made a call to the inspector to see exactly what he was looking for. along with gfci's, hard wired smoke detectors, additional kitchen circuits he then requested that i install tamper res. outlets (2 wire) i advised him that these were not being manufactured, his reply was i better be sure!so now i feel sure.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Eagleeye, if the interior wiring got wet, it needs replaced anyhow. (particularly if it was braided jacket). See this free document, which was published following Hurricane Katrina:

http://www.nema.org/stds/water-damaged.cfm#download


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

eagleeye said:


> thanks for all of the feedback, this house that i bid to do work on had been red tagged after hurricane ike, and was on the block to be demo'd because the repairs had not been completed in a time frame the city found acceptable. the owners of the home were advised that all services, plumbing, hvac, elec,structure etc... had to be up to code to be cleared, i made a call to the inspector to see exactly what he was looking for. along with gfci's, hard wired smoke detectors, additional kitchen circuits he then requested that i install tamper res. outlets (2 wire) i advised him that these were not being manufactured, his reply was i better be sure!so now i feel sure.


Now that you have told us more of the story I agree with the inspector. How much more of the story is being left out so you get the answers you are wanting to hear?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

if this house received water as a result of ike then you need to replace the 2 prong outlets, the boxes (screws are rusted and will break), the wire and the service entrance if it warrents it

if the roof blew off a certain part of the house and you only got "wind driven rain" in certain parts of the house you might be ok (might)

we need mo info though


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

In the area that I work if the wire ends up under water on either end the wire has to be replaced. http://www.charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyre...vb254d/FloodDamagedElectricalRequirements.pdf


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

william1978 said:


> In the area that I work if the wire ends up under water on either end the wire has to be replaced. http://www.charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyre...vb254d/FloodDamagedElectricalRequirements.pdf


i like the Megger requirements that's intelligent


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

nolabama said:


> i like the Megger requirements that's intelligent


 They require meg reports on jobs that get covered up with out a rough inspection, and aslong as the report comes back good they can proceed with the job if it fails they have to take all sheetrock down. Even on a pass meg test the have to put all 120v cirs on AFCI.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

william1978 said:


> They require meg reports on jobs that get covered up with out a rough inspection, and aslong as the report comes back good they can proceed with the job if it fails they have to take all sheetrock down. Even on a pass meg test the have to put all 120v cirs on AFCI.



photo's are not good enough?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

nolabama said:


> photo's are not good enough?


 No, photos are only good for the electrician scrap book.


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## eagleeye (Sep 15, 2009)

the house received no water, it was red tagged because it had a blue roof for a very long time and is not very pretty to look at, no one has lived at the home for a while. (neighbors complaining) this however does not make it electrically unsafe. And in response to william1978, I'm trying to trick this whole forum so I can get the desired results I want. This gives me the upperhand in running my business. der der duhhhhhh.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

In most of the jurisdictions that I work in, the whole home has to be certified as safe by an electrician if it's been without power for more than a year before power is restored. This normally necessarily involves many upgrades and changes before my name's going on that dotted line. One can make a pretty good argument that, since the NEC is supposed to be a minimum safety standard, the home is no longer "safe" in the eyes of the law until it meets the present NEC. Whether it's _actually_ safe if it doesn't meet the present NEC is another matter entirely.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

eagleeye said:


> And in response to william1978, I'm trying to trick this whole forum so I can get the desired results I want. This gives me the upperhand in running my business. der der duhhhhhh.


 What are you talking about?:001_huh:


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## eagleeye (Sep 15, 2009)

*der der duuuuuuuh*



william1978 said:


> Now that you have told us more of the story I agree with the inspector. How much more of the story is being left out so you get the answers you are wanting to hear?


 this is what im talking about


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