# Wire reducers



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I have a new panel with a 150 Amp sub-feed breaker installed that needs to feed a rather long run of 250kcmil.

The problem is the breaker's lugs are only rated up to 3/0

I was thinking of using those crimp-on reducer/studs to terminate the 250 cables.

Have you used these before, and what was your experience (good, bad, ugly)?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I have used them and I like them, but in your case the 250 may be so large that the pins touch where they are crimped on. You may need to use smaller wire tapped to the 250.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

they make off center and 90 degree pin connectors. with the offset ones you should be able to make something work


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't believe that I will need offsets or 90 pins.

There is sufficient room for the wires, just not enough space in the lugs!


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> I have a new panel with a 150 Amp sub-feed breaker installed that needs to feed a rather long run of 250kcmil.
> 
> The problem is the breaker's lugs are only rated up to 3/0
> 
> ...


Yes we use them but most of the time we order a new lug kit from factory .
never had a problem with crimps or termination .


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

We just used some yesterday on 600mcm. Lugs on the vfd were only good to 500. We had to use the offset pins. They work just fine


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

Would be cheaper to just tap down to smaller wire for the last few feet


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

piperunner said:


> Yes we use them but most of the time we order a new lug kit from factory .
> never had a problem with crimps or termination .


That's what I was thinking, replace the lugs.

BTW, I've used the pin terminals and not had any problems. Make sure you use the proper crimping tools though.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

I like replacing the factory lugs first, if that's an option. Wire reducers are just one more potential failure point to me.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I use the reducing pins. If we change the lugs we can get nailed for "altering" a CSA approved piece of equipment.:thumbdown:


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

You can also use a 250 crimp splice and on the 3/0 side strip the wire long enough so that you can bend some of the conductor onto itself making it large enough for the 250 crimp splice to fit tight remove the remaining strands crimp and you are done. Works around here.


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> You can also use a 250 crimp splice and on the 3/0 side strip the wire long enough so that you can bend some of the conductor onto itself making it large enough for the 250 crimp splice to fit tight remove the remaining strands crimp and you are done. Works around here.


If I follow right ur using a 250 crimp on a 3/0. That's hack . Just wait till the rest of the gang sees that


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

rrolleston said:


> You can also use a 250 crimp splice and on the 3/0 side strip the wire long enough so that you can bend some of the conductor onto itself making it large enough for the 250 crimp splice to fit tight remove the remaining strands crimp and you are done. Works around here.


Yeah.... that _could _work. 

But maybe something like this instead









https://images.tradeservice.com/F8S115UX2WBLD9RU/ATTACHMENTS/DIR100027/MERGRVE00006_37.pdf

:whistling2:


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

socalelect said:


> If I follow right ur using a 250 crimp on a 3/0. That's hack . Just wait till the rest of the gang sees that


You are NOT following this right! :no:

I need to be able to terminate a 250 into a lug that is rated for 3/0 maximum. They make wire reducers specifically for this purpose:









Problem is, you need a hydraulic crimper to do the job, and they provided me with a hand-crimper. Could NOT do it, as the crimp was too thick for the hand tool.

Ended up using Polaris bugs to splice a short piece of 3/0 on the end of the 250 so I could finish up the job..... :whistling2:


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

I would use these, http://www.greaves-usa.com/pdf/ReduceR Color Sheet.pdf

They are specifically made as a copper reducer.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

Crimped reducer is easiest, safest, and prob quickest way to go, 


I have done it countless times with no issues!


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

kbsparky said:


> You are NOT following this right! :no:
> 
> I need to be able to terminate a 250 into a lug that is rated for 3/0 maximum. They make wire reducers specifically for this purpose:
> 
> ...



Exactly what I used


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## socalelect (Nov 14, 2011)

kbsparky said:


> You are NOT following this right! :no:
> 
> I need to be able to terminate a 250 into a lug that is rated for 3/0 maximum. They make wire reducers specifically for this purpose:
> 
> ...


Yup I read wrong


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

sparky970 said:


> Exactly what I used


I've never used anything but the ilsco brand. Almost always 600-500 mcm


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## arthur (Feb 7, 2012)

kbsparky said:


> I have a new panel with a 150 Amp sub-feed breaker installed that needs to feed a rather long run of 250kcmil.
> 
> This must be a very long run, to need 250kcmil for 150 breaker!


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## Ghost Voltage (Jan 4, 2013)

I've used these Ilsco reducers on 750 kcmill Aluminum to get some cables into a splitter with lugs rated for 600A. What I know is this. 

1. You can find any type of crimp you could imagine for this. There are lots. 
2. When you order these things from the supplier you can rent the manually operated crimper for it. In most locations. 
3. The Hydraulic crimper I used "clicked" when you completed the crimping to let you know to release the pressure and stop. 
4. The reducers take up a lot of space. Even though 9/10 times you're trying to reduce a wire for equipment that's going to be designed for smaller wires in mind. (Thank manufacturers for cheaping out on every last cm cubed to save money; unlike the old days when you had more than enough space to terminate) 
5. If money is in any way a factor in your choices you shouldn't be reducing cables and running services in the first place. This is not the place or time to be cheaping out on your materials or equipment. Remember the worst case scenarios. Fire, Shock, Death & Destruction of Property. In this regard the customer is never right. Don't allow cheap clients to persuade you otherwise. Do it right and charge accordingly. 
6. Enjoy getting to play with bigboy Electrician toys. Working without them is pretty much asking for Pain & Failure. 

Not really a big deal if you ask me but it is complicated to select from the thousands of products and tools if it's your first time.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Make sure the dies used are listed for the connector used


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