# Lazy Or Just Stupid...



## Jlarson

I was going through some pictures today and found this, pay attention to that bolt on panel on the right. 










The glasses floating there to the left is yours truly if you are wondering. :laughing:


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## 480sparky

Black/red/blue, brown/orange/yellow, brown/orange/yellow is what I see in that panel.


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## Jlarson

480sparky said:


> Black/red/blue, brown/orange/yellow, brown/orange/yellow is what I see in that panel.


Well ya the original installer is not so great with colors, but look where that black/red/blue set goes.
There is a metal pull box on the other side of the wall feeding an underground PVC run to a sub panel. Now look at the hole where that nipple comes in, just a little bit oversize and there in no EGC in the run either.


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## jwjrw

This thread sucks even with pics....:whistling2:
You can't tell for sure where the blue, red, and black go..:no:.:001_huh:


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## Jlarson

jwjrw said:


> This thread sucks even with pics....:whistling2:
> You can't tell for sure where the blue, red, and black go...:001_huh:


Do I have to put an arrow in for ya? :laughing:


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## BuzzKill

yeah...there should be rules or something about posting boring pictures.


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## jwjrw

Jlarson said:


> Well ya the original installer is not so great with colors, but look where that black/red/blue set goes.
> There is a metal pull box on the other side of the wall feeding an underground PVC run to a sub panel. Now look at the hole where that nipple comes in, just a little bit oversize and there in no EGC in the run either.



You mean pvc isn't a listed grounding means?:001_huh: That explains that last inspection......:laughing:


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## Jlarson

jwjrw said:


> You mean pvc isn't a listed grounding means?:001_huh: That explains that last inspection......:laughing:


No plastic does not conduct :no::laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky

I'm still playing _Where's Waldo_ for a bolt on the panel on the right.








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## BuzzKill

:sleep1:


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## jwjrw

Jlarson said:


> Do I have to put an arrow in for ya? :laughing:





No but it took me even longer to find your floating glasses. You can just barely see one lens. I hope you are a better electrician than you are a photographer....:whistling2::laughing:


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## Jlarson

jwjrw said:


> No but it took me even longer to find your floating glasses. You can just barely see one lens. I hope you are a better electrician than you are a photographer


Wow lets think here jw, if I'm in the frame how could I have taken that picture. :laughing::laughing: The helper is the bad photographer on this one.


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## jwjrw

Jlarson said:


> Wow lets think here jw, if I'm in the frame how could I have taken that picture. :laughing::laughing: The helper is the bad photographer on this one.



Don't ask me to think on a sat night....
First YOU are always to blame if YOUR helper can't take good pics....
Second who can tell the glasses are on your face? Hell I thought they were sitting on a block of wood.....or a turnip hard to tell really...:laughing:


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## Jlarson

jwjrw said:


> First YOU are always to blame if YOUR helper can't take good pics....


So I have to teach photography too? :laughing:


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## BuzzKill

children please!


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## 480sparky

So, what are we looking for? I need an arrow.


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## JohnR

Not completly sure but it looks like the breaker on the far right has green wires as conductors. I don't see the green wires continue down to the Gbar


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## 480sparky

JohnR said:


> Not completly sure but it looks like the breaker on the far right has green wires as conductors. I don't see the green wires continue down to the Gbar



I see two blacks & a green going into the pipe in the top left (behind the meter). So I would assume they blacks go to the 2-pole breaker, and it is hiding where the green is landed.

But I still don't see any bolts there.


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## 589th mountain mover

:blink:I am still looking for the bolt! I can't see for looking or just blind?


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## Wingnut

:blink:Is the Ground going to A neutral bar?


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## Jlarson

Wingnut said:


> :blink:Is the Ground going to A neutral bar?


Yeah but the bonding screw is in place  I guess it was to hard to connect everything to the one ground bar.


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## ce2two

:no: nice OFF-SETS ..LOL MORE HACKKKK WORK..


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## Wingnut

ce2two said:


> :no: nice OFF-SETS ..LOL MORE HACKKKK WORK..


Don't look at the pipe work:no:


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## miller_elex

1, 3, & 5 in the MLO panel, yeah, who the eff used the wrong phase tape, but it looks like 5 goes through a current sw (status or proof,) and goes outside, probably to a condensor unit?

It looks like no bondage of the raceway going outside, big ass hole in the back of the can, and 480V.

Then 16, 18 480V 1ph, is two blacks, not org / yel, running over to a small step-down xfmr.

Not sure about that egc coming in, WTF, is that landing on the NB? (neut bar?)


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## Jlarson

miller_elex said:


> 1, 3, & 5 in the MLO panel, yeah, who the eff used the wrong phase tape, but it looks like 5 goes through a current sw (status or proof,) and goes outside, probably to a condensor unit?


I am responsible for the current switch otherwise I would not have even opened that panel. 

That feeder runs 700 feet underground to a small sub and a combo-disco starter, an ungrounded sub and starter that is.


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## miller_elex

Jlarson said:


> I am responsible for the current switch otherwise I would not have even opened that panel.
> 
> That feeder runs 700 feet underground to a small sub and a combo-disco starter, an ungrounded sub and starter that is.


 GEEBUS, sounds like there is plenty of work in AZ for good electricians, as there aren't many of you all around down there...


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## Jlarson

miller_elex said:


> GEEBUS, sounds like there is plenty of work in AZ for good electricians, as there aren't many of you all around down there...


:laughing: Well guys are also JW's now apparently, that's who is responsible for this mess.
I think they might have roofed the building too...


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## Jlarson

ce2two said:


> :no: nice OFF-SETS ..LOL MORE HACKKKK WORK..





Wingnut said:


> Don't look at the pipe work:no:


Yeah the EMT and the fact everything is level is the only good part of the whole deal. :laughing: Sad but true.


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## 480sparky

Why is the (bolt-less) right panel a 3R?


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## Jlarson

480sparky said:


> Why is the (bolt-less) right panel a 3R?


I don't know, throwing money away for no reason I guess, they are bolt on breakers though I know that.


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## Wingnut

miller_elex said:


> GEEBUS, sounds like there is plenty of work in AZ for good electricians, as there aren't many of you all around down there...


 

It's hard too get anyone too PAY for* GOOD* electricians here, 


BUTT
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Electrician&l=Arizona&sort=date&rq=1

second page INTEL is always good work.


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## HARRY304E

Jlarson said:


> I was going through some pictures today and found this, pay attention to that bolt on panel on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The glasses floating there to the left is yours truly if you are wondering. :laughing:


isent the panel on the right crocked


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## HARRY304E

HARRY304E said:


> isent the panel on the right crocked[/quote
> 
> Or is that **** eyed


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## Jlarson

HARRY304E said:


> isent the panel on the right crocked


It has to be level or that fuse on top would be rolling around :laughing:


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## HARRY304E

IT's got to be a bad level:laughing:


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## HARRY304E

Jlarson said:


> It has to be level or that fuse on top would be rolling around :laughing:



would that make it trip?:001_huh:


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## 480sparky

HARRY304E said:


> isent the panel on the right crocked


Why would it be crocked? Has it been drinking too much? :laughing:

I'd say it looks that way due to perspective.


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## HARRY304E

480sparky said:


> Why would it be crocked? Has it been drinking too much? :laughing:
> 
> I'd say it looks that way due to perspective.



ALCAHOLL IS DINOMITE:laughing:


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## Bkessler

I love boring pictures. Here a real beauty.


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## Jlarson

You stole a home for sale sign post? :laughing:


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## 480sparky

Jlarson said:


> You stole a home for sale sign post? :laughing:



The lady in the gold jacket at Century 21 is gonna be PO'd!


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## Bkessler

I just borrowed it,


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## nitro71

Jlarson said:


> Well ya the original installer is not so great with colors, but look where that black/red/blue set goes.
> There is a metal pull box on the other side of the wall feeding an underground PVC run to a sub panel. Now look at the hole where that nipple comes in, just a little bit oversize and there in no EGC in the run either.


Is it a metal nipple? I prefer to pull an EGC but don't always have to.


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## Jlarson

nitro71 said:


> Is it a metal nipple? I prefer to pull an EGC but don't always have to.


Yeah, but how are you going to ground the stuff at the other end of that PVC run with no EGC? Magic is not an option either. :laughing:


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## miller_elex

Jlarson said:


> Yeah, but how are you going to ground the stuff at the other end of that PVC run with no EGC? Magic is not an option either. :laughing:


Maybe they didn't want the kind of super grounding electrode that the well provides??

Am I wrong? Or isn't the steel body of the well pump grounded and in contact with the aquifer?


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## Jlarson

miller_elex said:


> Maybe they didn't want the kind of super grounding electrode that the well provides??
> 
> Am I wrong? Or isn't the steel body of the well pump grounded and in contact with the aquifer?


Yeah the casings are bonded at both sites, ya know what they did at the sub panel though, connected all the stuff to a ground rod as well as the casing, like that is going to open the OCPD or something through 700 feet of dirt


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## jwjrw

Jlarson said:


> Yeah the casings are bonded at both sites, ya know what they did at the sub panel though, connected all the stuff to a ground rod as well as the casing, like that is going to open the OCPD or something through 700 feet of dirt



Well if it was hit by lightning the ground rod would keep the voltage from traveling inside the well on the casing and then keep it from feeding back into the house on the water pipes.......:blink::laughing:

Sorry Riv...I had too.


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## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> Lazy Or Just Stupid


Can't it be both?


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## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> Can't it be both?


Sure, why not. :laughing:


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## nitro71

Jlarson said:


> Yeah, but how are you going to ground the stuff at the other end of that PVC run with no EGC? Magic is not an option either. :laughing:


I just saw the nipple and no EGC. The nipple could land in a metall box then you could start your EGC there for the PVC run. I ran outa time to scrutinize this thing to much


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## HARRY304E

nitro71 said:


> I just saw the nipple and no EGC. The nipple could land in a metall box then you could start your EGC there for the PVC run. I ran outa time to scrutinize this thing to much



Hua! How's that work:001_huh::001_huh::001_huh::001_huh:


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## Jlarson

nitro71 said:


> I just saw the nipple and no EGC. The nipple could land in a metall box then you could start your EGC there for the PVC run. I ran outa time to scrutinize this thing to much


That would work if A. the hole for the nipple wasn't way over sized and B. had there actually been an EGC pulled. It's a real cluster.


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## Magnettica

I'd tear it all out and start over.


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## pacificlp

i only see that it's mounted to plywood, the inspector, if there was one, should have called them on mounting to combustible material unless it's fire treated plywood which it's probably not.


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## Bob Badger

pacificlp said:


> i only see that it's mounted to plywood, the inspector, if there was one, should have called them on mounting to combustible material unless it's fire treated plywood which it's probably not.


Can you provide an NEC code section that requires fire treated plywood to this mount equipment to?


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## jwjrw

Bob Badger said:


> Can you provide an NEC code section that requires fire treated plywood to this mount equipment to? ]




By my count he is 0 for 2........:whistling2:


Bob I do know they want us to use treated lumber if wood is used for posts when we build remote services. In the NEC?


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## McClary’s Electrical

jwjrw said:


> By my count he is 0 for 2........:whistling2:
> 
> 
> Bob I do know they want us to use treated lumber if wood is used for posts when we build remote services. In the NEC?


 

Using treated lumber outdoors is a building code requirement


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## jwjrw

mcclary's electrical said:


> Using treated lumber outdoors is a building code requirement




I was thinking it might be but was not sure.:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson

Hey, what's going on in this boring as hell thread? :shifty:


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## jwjrw

Jlarson said:


> Hey, what's going on in this boring as hell thread? :shifty:


Been kinda dead here since thursday....


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## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> Hey, what's going on in this boring as hell thread? :shifty:


I want to know what person is shopping for Ace Hardware lamps?


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## jwjrw

Bob Badger said:


> I want to know what person is shopping for Ace Hardware lamps?



Probably one who needed a bulb and ace was the only place close by...:laughing:


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## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> I want to know what person is shopping for Ace Hardware lamps?


:laughing: Probably some of the most expensive lamps you can buy right there.


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## Bob Badger

jwjrw said:


> Been kinda dead here since thursday....


Apparently they cut off B4Ts balls, even with him back it has been dead. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> :laughing: Probably some of the most expensive lamps you can buy right there.


You ever by wire nuts or tape at the grocery store? :laughing:

4 or 5 red wire nuts for like $3.00, a roll of cheap tape so short you would not pick it up .... $3.00. :laughing:


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## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> You ever by wire nuts or tape at the grocery store?


No I just dig around in my tool bag some more, I am bound to have some wire nuts and tape laying around in there somewhere. 

See http://www.electriciantalk.com/f14/cleaning-out-your-tool-bag-16149/


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## Jlarson

jwjrw said:


> Been kinda dead here since thursday....


So instead of a political argument we are going to argue about fire resistant plywood :laughing:


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## HackWork

Jlarson said:


> So instead of a political argument we are going to argue about fire resistant plywood :laughing:


I've had residential customers argue with me that the backerboard I put their new panel on has to be painted black by code. Usually it's some type of contractor that I am working for who is telling me this.


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## 480sparky

Jlarson said:


> So instead of a political argument we are going to argue about fire resistant plywood :laughing:



Well, then, let's make it into a political thread. Maybe B4T can get banned permanently then. :laughing:


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## jwjrw

Jlarson said:


> So instead of a political argument we are going to argue about fire resistant plywood :laughing:



That and the other thing he posted that was wrong....:whistling2::laughing:

Oh yea it was about the temperature ratings of equipment and breakers. Not picking on him....I find out things I thought were true aren't all the time.


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## crazyboy

Did the guy that was bad with colors do this too?


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## Magnettica

^^ Wow, now that's something I've never seen before; feeders identified as equipment grounding conductors in a triple-phase enclosure.


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## Jlarson

crazyboy said:


>










Ok, now that's just plain sad.


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## Bob Badger

The service to a Boston brownstone. It is 208Y/120.


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## Jlarson

^ What's the fuse feed, free lighting?


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## oldtimer

Magnettica said:


> ^^ Wow, now that's something I've never seen before; feeders identified as equipment grounding conductors in a triple-phase enclosure.


 I think if you look really close, phase A has one round of tape, phase B has two rounds of tape, and I assume phase C has three rounds of tape. But, why green ?

They could have used duct tape and written on it with a marker, until they could get some phasing tape. 

Hack Work! I M O.


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## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> ^ What's the fuse feed, free lighting?


The 400 amp breaker is a shunt trip and that fuse supplies the shunt circuit. That in itself was kind of common in Boston for a certain period of time.

This one was odd as the other end of this was a typical non-addressable Fire Pull station at the exit of this multifamily dwelling.

So if you had a fire and pulled the pull station on the way out the door you would not get the fire department you would kill the buildings power. :blink::blink:


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## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> The 400 amp breaker is a shunt trip and that fuse supplies the shunt circuit. That in itself was kind of common in Boston for a certain period of time.
> 
> This one was odd as the other end of this was a typical non-addressable Fire Pull station at the exit of this multifamily dwelling.
> 
> So if you had a fire and pulled the pull station on the way out the door you would not get the fire department you would kill the buildings power. :blink::blink:


That's just odd, but then again most of the stuff in Boston is odd. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> That's just odd, but then again most of the stuff in Boston is odd. :laughing:


Tell me about it, last week I was walking around Cambridge / Harvard Yard and they may be wealthy, and they may be smart .... but they are also odd.

I saw this plaque while I was walking and it made me laugh, I must be immature. :laughing:


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## Jlarson

:laughing: I think almost all of us would have laughed at that.


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## oldtimer

Bob Badger said:


> Tell me about it, last week I was walking around Cambridge / Harvard Yard and they may be wealthy, and they may be smart .... but they are also odd.
> 
> I saw this plaque while I was walking and it made me laugh, I must be immature. :laughing:


 I wonder if you have to peruse them in house, or can you take them home???:laughing::laughing:


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## pacificlp

Bob Badger said:


> Can you provide an NEC code section that requires fire treated plywood to this mount equipment to?


 art. 384-7 was what the inspector quoted form


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## 480sparky

pacificlp said:


> art. 384-7 was what the inspector quoted form



He's still on the '99? 

I could see the concern, but more for the kraft paper on the insulation than the plywood.


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## 220/221

> I am still looking for the bolt! I can't see for looking or just blind?


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## 480sparky

220/221 said:


>



You need to rename the file.... the forums software removes the "shît", so the image won't show.


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## 220/221

I figured it out...eventually :thumbup:


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## Rudeboy

220/221 said:


> I figured it out...eventually :thumbup:


How long did it take? 

I just saw this thread and I'm lost.
:blink:

Good one Larson!
:thumbsup:


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## 220/221

No...I didn't figure out the thread. Just figured out why my pic didn't post.

Thread = fail :jester:


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## Jlarson

220/221 said:


> Thread = fail :jester:


:clap:

Who the hell dragged this piece of sh1t back to the top, and why it's boring as hell.


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## HARRY304E

220/221 said:


>


 :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Rudeboy

Jlarson said:


> :clap:
> 
> Who the hell dragged this piece of sh1t back to the top, and why it's boring as hell.


You know, 91 posts in a thread aint bad. 
91 posts of confusion is awesome!
:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson

Rudeboy said:


> You know, 91 posts in a thread aint bad.
> 91 posts of confusion is awesome!
> :thumbsup:


I'm still trying to figure out what's so hard to figure out about a panel with bolt on breakers :laughing:


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## Rudeboy

Jlarson said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what's so hard to figure out about a panel with bolt on breakers :laughing:


Yes and...

LarsonOP
"I was going through some pictures today and found this, pay attention to that bolt on panel on the right. "


Okay.
:blink:


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## Jlarson

Rudeboy said:


> Yes and...
> 
> LarsonOP
> "I was going through some pictures today and found this, pay attention to that bolt on panel on the right. "


What, I think some fine alcoholic product may be responsible for this thread, although I was so drunk I forgot. :laughing:


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## Rudeboy

Jlarson said:


> What, I think some fine alcoholic product may be responsible for this thread, although I was so drunk I forgot. :laughing:


Please tell me which product that particular one is, cause homey, I need some of that.
:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson

Rudeboy said:


> Please tell me which product that particular one is, cause homey, I need some of that.


All of them :laughing:


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## Rudeboy

Jlarson said:


> All of them :laughing:


I don't drink Long Island ice teas brother. That's what made my last gf smack me up. Cops were called. I ended up spending the night up on the building on the roof across the street. 
Nothing better than cell-phones and cigarettes... and a zippo.


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## HARRY304E

Rudeboy said:


> I don't drink Long Island ice teas brother. That's what made my last gf smack me up. Cops were called. I ended up spending the night up on the building on the roof across the street.
> Nothing better than cell-phones and cigarettes... and a zippo.


Cool.:laughing::laughing:


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## wayne g

Lazy & Stupid :laughing:


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