# Non-Union Electrician Seeking Advice



## swright (May 13, 2010)

Hi,

I'm new to the site. In fact, this is my first post. I stumbled across the site as I was searching for work.

Anyway, here's my question. What are my chances of becoming a member of the IBEW? Here's a bit of history on my career.

I have about 18 years of experience in the electrical trade, residential, commercial, industrial, both in new construction and maintenance. Originally, I became involved in the electrical field by joining the USAF as an Aircraft Electrical and Environmental Specialist. Spent four years working on C-130's and other transients.

After my tour, I started out working in the field almost immediately, first for a dime store mom and pop shop, and eventually got a gig with a fairly large manufacturing concern as an industrial maintenance electrician. The plant shut down and I did some work for myself. Went through some hoops and got my contractor's licence, which I no longer hold. (That was ages ago, eventually the economy of my former home city drove me and many others out. Think Flint, MI on a smaller scale.)

During the course of my career, I've worked in nearly every corner of the electrical field, save linework. At several junctures, I've had dealings with the IBEW, once they asked me to organize my shop, (when I ran my own,) which I was unable to do. There just wasn't enough work to even pay my own benefits at the time, much less any other IBEW electricians. Later, made an effort to join the brotherhood on my own as I worked for a psuedo-union shop. (It was a union only in name, and for all intents and purposes, was nothing more than a hiring agency for a particular contractor.)

Long story short, I get the impression that, given my long years of experience, the general attitude is that I am 'out in the rain' if you will, and because I didn't take the 'proper' path long ago, I'm 'not welcome.' Had I only known....

The area I live in falls under the umbrella of Local 1, which as I understand is the oldest and perhaps most traditional local in the country.

It a bit of a conundrum for me, really. I would love to bring my strengths, earned from a long and varied career, to the IBEW, as well as benefitting from the experience and support of the organization both personally and professionally. But, am I pipe dreaming? Is there an unwritten rule that non-union electricians like me have been 'stealing' union jobs and are not welcome in the IBEW? Or is that just an impression which I've mistakenly interpretted?

Any advice, either pro or con, would be welcome. To be honest, I am at a point in my career, at almost 40 years old, where I am considering going to school for a career change. Its just getting harder and harder to find companies who value skilled electricians enough to hold onto them, outside the union contractors. (In fairness, having never worked union, I don't know what its like on the other side of the fence.)

Thanks for any responses,

S. Wright


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Welcome to the forrm. Here the IBEW is taking in non union electrician's all the tim and putting them to work. I know of 2 this week.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

If you have a journeyman electrician card you would be able to get into my local regardless of your training path. The grass always seems greener on the other side. Nothing wrong with looking for work where you can find it. There are some very successful electricians on this forum that are not IBEW electricians.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

william1978 said:


> ......... Here the IBEW is taking in non union electrician's all the tim and putting them to work.............



Things are going so good there you don't have hundreds of people sitting on the bench?


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

It depends if you are trying to join a local with lots of guys on the bench, and you are currently unemployed then they may not let you in the club.

However if you are working at a non-union shop and they want to organize that shop then they will take you as long as you have a pulse or maybe even without one as long as you can vote.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> It depends if you are trying to join a local with lots of guys on the bench, and you are currently unemployed then they may not let you in the club.
> 
> However if you are working at a non-union shop and they want to organize that shop then they will take you as long as you have a pulse or maybe even without one as long as you can vote.



That is not allowed here, no straight forward honest answers are to be tolerated.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> That is not allowed here, no straight forward honest answers are to be tolerated.


 Hey, I sent you a PM on that other site.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> Hey, I sent you a PM on that other site.



Check that PM box.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

All bs aside if you get in touch with International IBEW at (202)833-7000 I am sure you will get all the answers you ask for. I wish you luck in what ever path you take and thank you for your post.
Brother Noah Newman


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Walking in and joining the union is based on demand.
In Toronto residential is moving along quite well .. I.C.I. is real slow.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> All bs aside if you get in touch with International IBEW at (202)833-7000 I am sure you will get all the answers you ask for. I wish you luck in what ever path you take and thank you for your post.
> Brother Noah Newman


 I dont get it.....whats with the brother...? Are you a priest..?


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I dont get it.....whats with the brother...? Are you a priest..?



A Brother isn't ordained nor can he celebrate the sacraments so he wouldn't be a priest. :no:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> A Brother isn't ordained nor can he celebrate the sacraments so he wouldn't be a priest. :no:


Maybe so. But he can make good money, have benefits for himself and his family. I would take that route anyday over a one man shop digging for leftover crumbs in a trash can as most here do, but will not admit it. :whistling2:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Maybe so. But he can make good money, have benefits for himself and his family. I would take that route anyday over a one man shop digging for leftover crumbs in a trash can as most here do, but will not admit it. :whistling2:



:icon_confused:

Uhhh I was talking about an actual brother and priest... :laughing:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

captkirk said:


> I dont get it.....whats with the brother...? Are you a priest..?


There are those of us that take our oath to heart, therefore we are family. Just as all families we do have our problems, for the most part are solved from within. I am under the impression that if we all in the construction field would treat each other with the respect of a family member we would have less hostility in our work place.When ever I greet one of our fellow union members I address them as Brother or Sister to show my respect. Thank you for your question, there are numerous things we can learn from one another if we made the effort.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Maybe so. But he can make good money, have benefits for himself and his family. I would take that route anyday over a one man shop digging for leftover crumbs in a trash can as most here do, but will not admit it. :whistling2:


Yeah those guys that rely only on their own abilities and not some big brother holding their hands are real jerks. :no:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> Maybe so. But he can make good money, have benefits for himself and his family. I would take that route anyday over a one man shop digging for leftover crumbs in a trash can as most here do, but will not admit it. :whistling2:


Man, I dunno. I've made a career out of doing crummy work no one else really wants to mess with. I really don't have to dig for them. They're falling all over the place.


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## Fusion (May 13, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Man, I dunno. I've made a career out of doing crummy work no one else really wants to mess with. I really don't have to dig for them. They're falling all over the place.


Define "crummy work that no one else really wants to mess with."


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> I would take that route anyday over a one man shop digging for leftover crumbs in a trash can as most here do, but will not admit it. :whistling2:


Hmmm, I make a pretty decent living out of that too and I like the individuality of it all, being my own boss and not having "the worker's movement" speak for me.


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## Fusion (May 13, 2010)

Self-employment isn't for everybody, and neither is the union. Not sure why one would be compelled to cast aspersion on the self employed, even if they're only making a bit. Not everyone in this world has their self-worth and satisfaction tied to the number on their paycheck every week.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Fusion said:


> Define "crummy work that no one else really wants to mess with."


It's the phonecalls that start out with, "I'm having a hard time finding....", or, "I can't find anyone to....".

Calls that start out like that, I don't care what the problem is, I'm their guy. "Yeah, we do that", is my usual response, even if I have no a clue what they're talking about. Some people call that irresponsible. I call it a way of life. :thumbsup:


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## Fusion (May 13, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I
> Calls that start out like that, I don't care what the problem is, I'm their guy. "Yeah, we do that", is my usual response, even if I have no a clue what they're talking about. Some people call that irresponsible. I call it a way of life. :thumbsup:



So, what are some wacky jobs that were a result of said phone calls?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Fusion said:


> So, what are some wacky jobs that were a result of said phone calls?


Peter, you've heard a good many of them already. Why you doing this, again?


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## Fusion (May 13, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Peter, you've heard a good many of them already. Why you doing this, again?


Truth be told I don't remember a one of them. I'm not kidding either. :blink:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Fusion said:


> Truth be told I don't remember a one of them. I'm not kidding either. :blink:


Fair enough. I'll give you one from very recently. "We think we're having trouble with one of the floats in our grinder pump pit, and we can't find anyone to.....".

After 6 hours in a sewage tank, in and out probably 100 times (15 feet down), and sh!t water trickling down my back and pants, their pumping station was completely rewired and they were back in business. I made as much that day as I normally make in a week, and they were happy to pay.


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## Fusion (May 13, 2010)

Ahh...ok. Now it's coming back to me. Something about you working under a building with a river of sewage running through it comes to mind. Seems like you and poo go together well. Maybe you should call Mike Rowe and do an episode of Dirty Jobs. :laughing:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Fusion said:


> Ahh...ok. Now it's coming back to me. Something about you working under a building with a river of sewage running through it comes to mind. Seems like you and poo go together well. Maybe you should call Mike Rowe and do an episode of Dirty Jobs. :laughing:


Yeah, that was a different job. My wife has actually told me I should call Mike Rowe. I get into some stuff, let me tell you. I can remember drilling into the bottom of a studwall and having "the sands of the hourglass" of bat guano come pouring out. 

That rotten motel with a river of sewage in the crawl was this place: http://www.travelpost.com/hotels/Budget_Inn_Motel/hid88030

Owner's name was "Omar", although I'm pretty sure he wasn't a tentmaker. I forget what his last name was, but it was probably Patel. Seems like every Indian motel owner's last name is Patel.


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## swright (May 13, 2010)

*Thanks for the responses*



PhatElvis said:


> It depends if you are trying to join a local with lots of guys on the bench, and you are currently unemployed then they may not let you in the club.
> 
> However if you are working at a non-union shop and they want to organize that shop then they will take you as long as you have a pulse or maybe even without one as long as you can vote.


I am asuming this is the problem I'm up against. I hear that local 1 is at about 35-40% on their tools right now, though that's just the scuttlebutt. When I spoke with the officer for Southeast MO, I was advised to hire on with a non-union shop then contact him again. So really your advice is spot on.

That career change is looking better and better, to be honest. Though I did put in for a railroader gig, maybe that'll pan out for me.


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## nunya (Dec 7, 2010)

To the OP: Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I thought I'd share my experience with you. As I'm sure you know by now, you pretty much need a license to breathe in the St. Louis Area. Unfortunately there is no "single licensing entity" in the St. Louis region. I may be the most licensed S.O.B. you know. Count on having to spend about $2K per year in the St. Louis region on licenses and bonds alone. But you won't be able to work otherwise. On to the IBEW: I did go down to Local 1 and speak with the BA. I explained that I was a one-man-shop and intended to stay that way (I'm very picky and don't like to babysit). Under that contract, OMS's were allowed in Local 1. The problems were: 1) You had to put up a $15K BLOC or Bond. 2) You had to pay full 40 hrs, worked or not. 3) You had to pay into the Vacation and Christmas fund, whether you wanted to or not. 4) Health and Welfare for Local 1 is rather pricey. 5) Local dues are rather pricey. I simply couldn't afford it. I'd be bankrupt by now. I'm not anti-union. I was a union man before I broke out on my own. As you are also probably well aware, the construction industry in the St. Louis area sucks butt. There is no work. There are hundreds (I believe over 1,000) of guys sitting at the hall. These aren't your lazy "hall rat"" types. These are good skilled enthusiastic workmen. Electrical contractors are dropping like flies. It's not because they were bad businessmen or did crap work. It's just that bad out here. I hate to say it, but every time one goes under - I feel better. I've survived this long. I may sound like a ****, but there are too many electrical contractors around here as it is, and I'd rather not be the one leaving. If I were you, I'd look to make a fresh start doing something else. Those HVAC guys always seem to be busy, and hiring. Even now. Sorry I don't have more positive news to add.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> It's the phonecalls that start out with, "I'm having a hard time finding....", or, "I can't find anyone to....".
> 
> Calls that start out like that, I don't care what the problem is, I'm their guy. "Yeah, we do that", is my usual response, even if I have no a clue what they're talking about. Some people call that irresponsible. I call it a way of life. :thumbsup:


I'd work for you any time..


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

nunya said:


> On to the IBEW: I did go down to Local 1 and speak with the BA. I explained that I was a one-man-shop and intended to stay that way.


Did you try the carpenter's local? I heard they want EC's too. 

Muah ha ha hah.... :laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Just my experience. Posting a 15k bond for your own benefits might be something they could waive for you.
I dont know what the benefit package is in St. Louis but here, based on (the laughable) pay scale of $27 something, my benefits for 160 hours per month is just around $1,500.
This includes three separate pensions, family PPO health insurance, all of my dues, JATC, and maybe 10 other small items.
I have too many vested years to walk away or have broken service and this is the best way I know how to keep them up. Plus, if I ever need help, a week or even for a day or two, I know that I can make one phone call and have someone that has a local license, knows what they are doing, can bend pipe, has pocket tools and a little history in common with me.
I just do not see a down side to it at all.

Go ahead Bob...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Go ahead Bob...


This thread is more than 6 months old .............


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

This thread is so old the op is retired by now.... :laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Someone must have searched for local 1 and dug it up.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> It's the phonecalls that start out with, "I'm having a hard time finding....", or, "I can't find anyone to....".
> 
> Calls that start out like that, I don't care what the problem is, I'm their guy. "Yeah, we do that", is my usual response, even if I have no a clue what they're talking about. Some people call that irresponsible. I call it a way of life. :thumbsup:


It also could be called "lying". But I have lied on more than one interview to get a job. Like the time I was asked if I could bend pipe. I never had, but learned quick enough to keep the job.



nitro71 said:


> I'd work for you any time..


Then you become the turd chaser instead of him.



robnj772 said:


> This thread is so old the op is retired by now.... :laughing:


With a pension hopefully.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Damn, things were already getting bad 6 years ago??

EDIT: My bad, I thought I read 6 years, not months.


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## nunya (Dec 7, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Did you try the carpenter's local? I heard they want EC's too.
> 
> Muah ha ha hah.... :laughing:


 When I found out how much the carpenter "electricians" were making, I almost peed myself laughing. What a joke.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> It's the phonecalls that start out with, "I'm having a hard time finding....", or, "I can't find anyone to....".
> 
> Calls that start out like that, I don't care what the problem is, I'm their guy. "Yeah, we do that", is my usual response, even if I have no a clue what they're talking about. Some people call that irresponsible. I call it a way of life. :thumbsup:


 

Sometimes they are not having a hard time finding someone. They are having a hard time finding someone to do the work for a cheese salad sammitch and a handjob. Or someone that will do the work for free and pay for half the materials. That has been my experience.


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## circuit-machine (Sep 10, 2010)

I like the idea of the union. And in truth union guys get paid more if they can stay working. the problem is that this is the real world, and like everything else in the world, the union isn't perfect. in the begining you might get laid off before some other guys because nobody knows you. you will run in to some ****heads. but really after a while, if you organize in you will have friends and be a jw just like everybody else. at least thats how it is in 1141. :thumbsup:


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