# POCO takes meter, requires insp before re install



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

A new trend by the POCO here is to take off with the meter is things such as a tree branch pulling the riser or SE from the house.

I looked at a job today where this happened while customer was out of town.
Current setup is a 100 amp service, double tapped, one panel on the left (original I think) which is MLO, 1 40 amp 2 p for the 6 circuit fuse inside, 1 40 amp 2 p for the CAC 1 40 amp 2 p for the dryer and 2 20 amp 1 p. Panel on the right is a MLO with 5 20 amp 1 p circuits.

Drop runs across a driveway and it 10' from concrete to drop.

POCO Will not return the meter until county does an inspection.

I am looking at having to install a new meter with a mast to clear 12' for the drop and combining the 2 panels into 1 to satisfy the 6 throw rule. I told the customer a ballpark of 1600.00 to 1900.00 and she almost had a heart attack.


What would you do?


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

tell the homeowner that the way it is.if she wants to pay you to do the work sign her up if not go to the next job


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Here is a pic.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> A new trend by the POCO here is to take off with the meter is things such as a tree branch pulling the riser or SE from the house.
> 
> I looked at a job today where this happened while customer was out of town.
> Current setup is a 100 amp service, double tapped, one panel on the left (original I think) which is MLO, 1 40 amp 2 p for the 6 circuit fuse inside, 1 40 amp 2 p for the CAC 1 40 amp 2 p for the dryer and 2 20 amp 1 p. Panel on the right is a MLO with 5 20 amp 1 p circuits.
> ...


That's the cost of the job, you're not selling hamburgers .


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

If that's what I needed to make on the job, I would stick to my price.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I thought about an alternative such as replace the panel on the right with on that has a main, but that does does address the drop being less than 12' over a driveway. 

I dont know. Hell deep unistrut is what, 1.5" deep?, I need 2" to clear the 1/2" conduit running across the freeze board that feeds the garage.

I would love to clean this up, but I may jack it up, I got plenty more work to do.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I would put an all in one meter/main and charge whatever it takes.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> Here is a pic.


Not bad, not bad. Handle it buddy. :thumbsup:

The price is the price. Everybody haggels a little bit, but there's not much to come down on here. 

You know why I like these type of jobs? Because as ugly as it is already, not matter what you do, it will look like brand new car! :laughing:


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Crack Wireman said:


> If that's what I needed to make on the job, I would stick to my price.


I am trying to think of alternatives. I told the customer that when the POCO took the meter, that opened a can of worms. If they would have left the meter, I would reconnect as is and not lose any sleep over it.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Why would you reconnect something that didn't meet NEC?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> I would put an all in one meter/main and charge whatever it takes.


POCO issues meter sockets here. My plan is to install the new socket to the right of the window where the drop is now and then pipe 5' left to a new main panel.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Why would you reconnect something that didn't meet NEC?


If it was working the last 20 yrs in current condition, then why not?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Wow,


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> I would put an all in one meter/main and charge whatever it takes.


Yeah, me too. I don't think I'd combine anything to meet the 6 throw rule. Not on a house at least.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Wow,


There is no safety issue here, just code violations that will keep the cutomer from having power restored.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

It's a four hour job. I hate it when I get trolled.


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

aftershockews said:


> I am trying to think of alternatives. I told the customer that when the POCO took the meter, that opened a can of worms. If they would have left the meter, I would reconnect as is and not lose any sleep over it.


Oh, my bad.


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

Then, I would put it all in a meter main combo


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Why would you reconnect something that didn't meet NEC?



Because the entire state of Vermont would run the nation outta candles after the next outage sbrn

~CS~


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> It's a four hour job. I hate it when I get trolled.


First off, I would rather bring it all up to code. I am just trying to help someone out.
Second, this is not a 4 hr job,I am figuring all day and maybe an hour or two of a second day.

Tell me your game plan to keep it within four hours. I would like to know.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It's not your fault someone else's work is substandard. Does she think you're a charity?



aftershockews said:


> ........ If they would have left the meter, I would reconnect as is and not lose any sleep over it.


That would be a criminal act in many places.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

480sparky said:


> It's not your fault someone else's work is substandard. Does she think you're a charity?
> 
> 
> 
> That would be a criminal act in most places.


You are correct. But me being me, I always try to help folks. My fault I guess.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> *Why would you reconnect something that didn't meet NEC?*






....did you ask him if it was code compliant when installed 20 yrs ago ?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

360max said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> 
> ....did you ask him if it was code compliant when installed 20 yrs ago ?


It was not when the panel on the right was installed. That is why this has opened a can of worms because of one tree branch.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

On all the meter base repairs I've done, most inspectors will let a lot of stuff slide if it was code at one time. But if it was never to code, I call the inspector first and see what they think. 

It a crap shot. Sometimes they will let a lot slide.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Doesn't matter if I'm swapping out a main breaker. Utility removes a meter, you need an inspection for them to re-install it.


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## Crack Wireman (Aug 22, 2014)

MHElectric said:


> On all the meter base repairs I've done, most inspectors will let a lot of stuff slide if it was code at one time. But if it was never to code, I call the inspector first and see what they think.
> 
> It a crap shot. Sometimes they will let a lot slide.


Around here once the Utility company pulls the meter, it requires a service inspection before they'll hot it up again. Have to bring it up the code, we're on the 2008 currently


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Crack Wireman said:


> Around here once the Utility company pulls the meter, it requires a service inspection before they'll hot it up again. Have to bring it up the code, we're on the 2008 currently


2008!!!! And you guys all think Nebraska is a hick state. :no:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Crack Wireman said:


> Around here once the Utility company pulls the meter, it requires a service inspection before they'll hot it up again. Have to bring it up the code, we're on the 2008 currently


Well, every place is different. But in my experience, a call or visit to the inspection office has let me get by with alot more than I thought I would be able to.


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## niteshift (Nov 21, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> A new trend by the POCO here is to take off with the meter is things such as a tree branch pulling the riser or SE from the house.
> 
> I looked at a job today where this happened while customer was out of town.
> Current setup is a 100 amp service, double tapped, one panel on the left (original I think) which is MLO, 1 40 amp 2 p for the 6 circuit fuse inside, 1 40 amp 2 p for the CAC 1 40 amp 2 p for the dryer and 2 20 amp 1 p. Panel on the right is a MLO with 5 20 amp 1 p circuits.
> ...


 
Here in that situation it would be a (utility) meter inspector, not a county inspector. He would tell you what had to be satisfied to have the meter re-installed. You pretty much nailed it with the mast and meter/main combo. Of course proper grounding included. If the price is what it took to do the job, and customer does not like it, they are free to shop around. You put your bid out there, they don't have to take it.
Forgot to add, county permit would be required and a county inspection.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

Id run the riser through the roof , looks like the wire is long enough. That ll satify the poco . There is no rule that the six throws have to be in one panel. Ive had 3 200 amp panels where we went from meter to gutter, then to each pabel, but if ur trying to appease them put a disconnect before the meter. They d love that. . 

no matter what we theorize as electrics. It has always been .


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## Sbargers (Mar 28, 2013)

aftershockews said:


> A new trend by the POCO here is to take off with the meter is things such as a tree branch pulling the riser or SE from the house.
> 
> I looked at a job today where this happened while customer was out of town.
> Current setup is a 100 amp service, double tapped, one panel on the left (original I think) which is MLO, 1 40 amp 2 p for the 6 circuit fuse inside, 1 40 amp 2 p for the CAC 1 40 amp 2 p for the dryer and 2 20 amp 1 p. Panel on the right is a MLO with 5 20 amp 1 p circuits.
> ...


Same stuff in my neck of woods this was last week poco shut off because in a overgrown tree made me so this to bring to code and power back on.

Sent from my XT1030 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

As I reread this thread id say quoting a price for an un factually proveable scope of work is a. Wrong youre not helping out anyone but you to 1900.00. We both know you need to call the poco and ask what you can do to help. Then call the inspector and tell him the situation and how much you wanna help people out. Take a pic. Hes gonna say the drop is too low, the are the problem or even hell it looks like it was code when it was done originally. Have him inspect it a get her hooked back up. Or rewire the house why stop at 1900. Theres plenty of code violations


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

I'd stay at 1900 and maybe throw in swapping out the fuse panel inside, if it was feasible and i felt sympathetic enough. 

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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> You are correct. But me being me, I always try to help folks. My fault I guess.



It's a common mentality, one that i'm often dragged into Ashock

But for the most part, it's all _engineered crisis _, for instance i find it hard to believe that anyone could walk by that mess day in/out , and _not_ realize it's in need of repair.

I'm also willing to wager they received a few poco notices of imminent disconnect _before _they yanked their meter.

Now they're off crying poor mouth , and most likely using you as a local price guide, which is where you're probably_ 'helping'_ them.

~CS~


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## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

Around here the POCO would pay us to change that mess for them.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

aftershockews said:


> There is no safety issue here, just code violations that will keep the cutomer from having power restored.


thats the crux of it 
if it needs to be brought into compliance then it must be done.
Myself I offer payment plans (all dealt through the local bank of course) when the cost is high this makes it much easier to resolve the issues.

if pulling a meter on an active service (that is not in arrears)
causes any type of medical hardship the consumer can take legal action against the poco.
regardless of changes in code they cannot legally force an upgrade on an already active service.

if there is no safety issue they have no right to pull the meter


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

During power outages, line crews here will listen for generators. If the find one without a compliant transfer switch, the customer will get cut off at the pole and will not get reconnected until they inspect and pass one.

Too many are back feeding their dryer receptacles and not turning off the main.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

gnuuser said:


> thats the crux of it
> if it needs to be brought into compliance then it must be done.
> Myself I offer payment plans (all dealt through the local bank of course) when the cost is high this makes it much easier to resolve the issues.
> 
> ...


While the customer was out of town apparently a tree branch hit the line, pulled the POA and SE cable from the wall. POCO cut the service and took the meter.

She had an electrician (so I was told) attach the SE back and install a new POA, but the POCO would not reconnect without an inspection from the county.

UPDATE: I was informed that the customer apparently got the electrician who attached the SE back to the wall to pull a permit and it is suppose to be inspected today.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> UPDATE: I was informed that the customer apparently got the electrician who attached the SE back to the wall to pull a permit and it is suppose to be inspected today.


I'd love to be the_ fly on the wall_ for that Ashock

~CS~


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## Expediter (Mar 12, 2014)

aftershockews said:


> There is no safety issue here, just code violations that will keep the cutomer from having power restored.



Umm, HUH? And I thought code violitions were safety issues. LOL

I would put a mast through the roof, meter/main/panel all-in-one if possible. If not possible just one larger panel and give value by bumping up to a 200A and only charge $3500:whistling2::laughing:


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

And throw in the weed-wacking for free.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

aftershockews said:


> A new trend by the POCO here is to take off with the meter is things such as a tree branch pulling the riser or SE from the house.
> 
> I looked at a job today where this happened while customer was out of town.
> Current setup is a 100 amp service, double tapped, one panel on the left (original I think) which is MLO, 1 40 amp 2 p for the 6 circuit fuse inside, 1 40 amp 2 p for the CAC 1 40 amp 2 p for the dryer and 2 20 amp 1 p. Panel on the right is a MLO with 5 20 amp 1 p circuits.
> ...


 If you can do it for $1600.00 why would you care if she had a heart attack?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Expediter said:


> Umm, HUH? And I thought code violitions were safety issues. LOL
> 
> I would put a mast through the roof, meter/main/panel all-in-one if possible. If not possible just one larger panel and give value by bumping up to a 200A and only charge $3500:whistling2::laughing:


I do not see how having 10 throws to shut off all power and/or a 10' clearance of service drop over this driveway be of any safety concern. Although both are code violations.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> I do not see how having 10 throws to shut off all power and/or a 10' clearance of service drop over this driveway be of any safety concern. Although both are code violations.


The 6 - throw rule stems from the FD wanting a standard to be able to be reasonably sure the power is off when fighting a fire.

And some people drive vehicles on a daily basis that ate over 10' tall. You don't think ripping down an (unfused!) overheard line isn't a safety hazard?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

480sparky said:


> The 6 - throw rule stems from the FD wanting a standard to be able to be reasonably sure the power is off when fighting a fire.
> 
> And some people drive vehicles on a daily basis that ate over 10' tall. You don't think ripping down an (unfused!) overheard line isn't a safety hazard?


And what if the vehical is 13' tall? We can keep going. I know they are code violations, but in this case, something that has been this way for probably 10+ years, I do not see a safety issue with having it reconnected.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> And what if the vehical is 13' tall? We can keep going. I know they are code violations, but in this case, something that has been this way for probably 10+ years, I do not see a safety issue with having it reconnected.


Why don't you submit a proposal for the '17 to make a change? All you'll need is documentation supporting your claims.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Why don't you submit a proposal for the '17 to make a change? All you'll need is documentation supporting your claims.


You think we need it at 17'?


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Expediter said:


> Umm, HUH? And I thought code violitions were safety issues. LOL
> 
> I would put a mast through the roof, meter/main/panel all-in-one if possible. If not possible just one larger panel and give value by bumping up to a 200A and only charge $3500:whistling2::laughing:


:laughing: Read my signature:

"95% of the National Electrical Code is there due to someone being aggressively stupid"


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> The 6 - throw rule stems from the FD wanting a standard to be able to be reasonably sure the power is off when fighting a fire.
> 
> And some people drive vehicles on a daily basis that ate over 10' tall. You don't think ripping down an (unfused!) overheard line isn't a safety hazard?


Maybe. But if you really want power to be cut call the power co the cut the service drop.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

meadow said:


> Maybe. But if you really want power to be cut call the power co the cut the service drop.


Which takes time.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Which takes time.


It does, but entering a building and looking for a main that might be buried in junk?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

meadow said:


> :laughing: Read my signature:
> 
> "95% of the National Electrical Code is there due to someone being aggressively stupid"


I have on occassion where the meter was backed up to the inside panel on a non brick wall that I only had like 1.5-2" distance between. Take a peice of pvc conduit, cut length to protrude about 1" into the meter base and panel, then cut a pvc coupling down to 1", glue and bam!

That can be seen as a code violation, but by no means a safety issue. Inspectors though, let me do it. :thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

meadow said:


> It does, but entering a building and looking for a main that might be buried in junk?


No code will prevent someone from piling junk in front of the panel.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> I have on occassion where the meter was backed up to the inside panel on a non brick wall that I only had like 1.5-2" distance between. Take a peice of pvc conduit, cut length to protrude about 1" into the meter base and panel, then cut a pvc coupling down to 1", glue and bam!
> 
> That can be seen as a code violation, but by no means a safety issue. Inspectors though, let me do it. :thumbup:


I will admit I divide codes into 2 categories: technical violations and dangerous violations. Technical ones like not putting a cord and plug connected range hood on a dedicated circuit I don't loose sleep over. 



480sparky said:


> No code will prevent someone from piling junk in front of the panel.


 True, and no code will make a fire fighter safe unless the actual service drop is cut. That's why firefighters in many areas are advised not to get to wound up about shutting power off.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I forgot where I read it and I am basing it on the 2002 cycle. If a range hood is hardwired in, it does not have to be on a dedicated circuit, but if it is cord and plug connected then it has to be dedicated. And I could have read it in the county amendments.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> I forgot where I read it and I am basing it on the 2002 cycle. If a range hood is hardwired in, it does not have to be on a dedicated circuit, but if it is cord and plug connected then it has to be dedicated. And I could have read it in the county amendments.


Yup! I forget the section but its in the NEC. One of the dumbest rules ever.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

meadow said:


> Yup! I forget the section but its in the NEC. One of the dumbest rules ever.


Since I always cord and plug so I run a dedicated, but I will put it on with the ignitor or have it be one of the receptacles for my SABC. As long as it is not on with the fridge.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> Since I always cord and plug so I run a dedicated, but I will put it on with the ignitor or have it be one of the receptacles for my SABC. As long as it is not on with the fridge.


Code says no, but I do it the same. The NEC is turning into a design manual to protect Joe DIY.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Having to cough up $1600 for a service upgrade caused by an act of god is tough enough to swallow.

But, I saw where the poco was putting in smart meters, with dumb techs., and they broke the cover fasteners. 

They left the cover swinging in the breeze (hot) and told the HO to call an electrician.

Since it was an obsolete meter/main combo panel the price to the HO was $1600.


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