# Seimens Power Meter



## jorjac71 (Feb 26, 2010)

i have photo on photobucket but can't post damn thing


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jorjac71 said:


> i have photo on photobucket but can't post damn thing


Here, this might help. 

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f17/how-post-photos-images-1588/


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

So that 3 pole class CC fuse holder is the for the voltage taps, and that 6 pole shorting block is for the CTs. It has a 120 volt input from what looks like a control transformer to the left right? 

Did you check for 120 volt power on the power input yet? That would be my starting point in troubleshooting it.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> So that 3 pole class CC fuse holder is the for the voltage taps, and that 6 pole shorting block is for the CTs. It has a 120 volt input from what looks like a control transformer to the left right?
> 
> Did you check for 120 volt power on the power input yet? That would be my starting point in troubleshooting it.


I get the same idea. 

First thing I'd check is input voltage; there should be 120AC on L and N, up at the top. 

A word of caution here; do not, under any conditions, disconnect any of the current inputs while the system is energized. They are derived from CTs (current transformers), and the secondary side of all CTs must always be either shorted or connected to a load. If they are operated open circuit, even for an instant, the CT will very likely be destroyed. Not to mention several thousand volts across the open terminals.

Rob


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

micromind said:


> A word of caution here; do not, under any conditions, disconnect any of the current inputs while the system is energized. They are derived from CTs (current transformers), and the secondary side of all CTs must always be either shorted or connected to a load. If they are operated open circuit, even for an instant, the CT will very likely be destroyed. Not to mention several thousand volts across the open terminals.


Yeah, I forgot about that, guess it has become an instinct for me just to short them out.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Does this help?

http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/internet-dms/btlv/ACCESS/ACCESS/Docs/4300_Datasheet.pdf


http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/internet-dms/btlv/ACCESS/ACCESS/Docs/4300_User_Manual.pdf

http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/internet-dms/btlv/ACCESS/ACCESS/Docs/4300_SEAbusProtocol_Reference.pdf


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## jorjac71 (Feb 26, 2010)

yes there is 120v at the input from the control transformer and all fuses are good, no I haven't taken anything apart and don't plan on it. I haven't worked in the industrial field in 10 yrs. My employer wants to get more into other fields besides residential but has no clue !! THANKS FOR THE HELP


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jorjac71 said:


> yes there is 120v at the input from the control transformer and all fuses are good...


So the display is just dead?


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Make sure you have the right cable. Manual says not to use a standard RS232C cable, which may have happened for some reason. 

Check for 120V at LN, as someone mentioned. 

If you have a computer with a proper software and interface, talk to it using RS-485 interface. The module should show signs of life as long as AC 120v is present.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Electric_Light said:


> talk to it using RS-485 interface..


Yes, I am very surprised not to see an RS-485 FLN cable, going back to the DDC controls.

Stuff like this is used for peak shaving. Commercial customers are charged for power by how much their highest consumption was during peak hours. One of these babies, along with some contactors on hot water heaters, or even unloading A/C on an RTU, can save the customer BUTT-TONS of money! 

Of course I mean, one of these babies, networked in with the controllers. The control loop has to run somewhere.

There is big money to be recouped in energy management, too bad most facilities (commercial) maintenance guys are too lazy to care.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Yes, I am very surprised not to see an RS-485 FLN cable, going back to the DDC controls.
> 
> Stuff like this is used for peak shaving. Commercial customers are charged for power by how much their highest consumption was during peak hours. One of these babies, along with some contactors on hot water heaters, or even unloading A/C on an RTU, can save the customer BUTT-TONS of money!
> 
> ...


Have you seen the new Sylvania PowerShed ballasts? They're step dimming ballast that is controlled using power line carrier signal which is injected by transducer. The transducer is signaled by controls within building(i.e. dim when on generator, dim during daylight, etc) and/or request from the utility over the internet during peak hours. 
http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/d...IREZ.0bcb92cf-6ad1-4ab5-af28-844b411adbc0.pdf


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I like how you can take a 2-wire to the lighting panel, and save 33% then and there. Looks like it is two ballasts in one, and dumps the middle tube. Good for offices.

Most of the stuff I have done for lighting has been watt-stopper stuff, with sensors and power-packs, or just plain replacing the switch with a sensor / switch. Also taken a photocell back to the DDC, which has internal schedules, and that took over site lighting and also inside lights when combined with a 3-hour override MC switch for off hours activity. All that was done by contactors cut into the HR at the panel.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> I like how you can take a 2-wire to the lighting panel, and save 33% then and there. Looks like it is two ballasts in one, and dumps the middle tube. Good for offices.


That's actually not how it works. Here's a better literature on it.
http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/D...SHED.81d6ce74-cf9d-480c-9445-7a7e41fd73cc.pdf

It only comes in one model and it works for 120-277v, and you can use with 2 or 3 lamps. It works like an ordinary ballast when powered up, but when it receives a command, it dims every lamp, so a 3 lamp fixture is not required to work. It will dim lamps either in 2 or 3 lamp configuration and not as obvious as one lamp turning off. 

I like that the dimming control is in the ballast itself, so that unlike phase control, it doesn't result in low PF or high THD in dimmed state.

Since lighting is a significant load in commercial buildings, if the local utility can work collaboratively with customers to voluntarily reduce load at utility's signal during "traffic jam" I think it is beneficial.


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## jorjac71 (Feb 26, 2010)

yep display is dead, this is the second one, another bucket display went dead last month so they decided to take care of them


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jorjac71 said:


> yep display is dead, this is the second one, another bucket display went dead last month so they decided to take care of them


So this isn't the first one that kicked it. Did you try putting new displays on?


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