# Walgreens



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Estimating a Walgreens, got burnt out and had to take a break. Anyone ever bid one of these, they are ridiculous with all the notes. Looks like I will be adding a percentage on for inexperience on this one.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

dawgs said:


> Estimating a Walgreens, got burnt out and had to take a break. Anyone ever bid one of these, they are ridiculous with all the notes. Looks like I will be adding a percentage on for inexperience on this one.


A shop I worked for a few years back was in tight with Walgreens. 

Their specifications make for a very expensive project. Independent ground for every circuit, oversized conduit, etc.

Their owner's rep was very diligent in making sure the drawings and specs were followed to the letter.

I don't know if they have changed their standards but at the time we were practically building nuclear power plants for Walgreens.

They paid very well.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Do you remember about how many labor hours the job took?


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Each project was different in scope as most were remodels.

We used NECA Normal labor rates and kept the same personnel on every project.

We used an adder for work that needed to be completed off hours.

We never lost money on them and our profits reached as high as 30%. 

Is this a new building?


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Yes, new construction. I have never bid one or worked one so I want to cover myself. I have heard some horror stories about these.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

The thing about Walgreens is they want what is on their plans, that is why they are so specific. 

They were pleased with us, we were happy with their timely payments.

I left that shop to move on and do larger projects but I would not be at all surprised to find out they are still doing work for them.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I agree with Jay on all points.

I don't know how many hours but it will be much more than you thought in any case.

You would think a simple pharmacy would be slam dunk for a company that does a lot of large retail, it was not.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Your foreman will make or break the job. There are a million details that he needs to pay attention to. He needs to be 3 days ahead and willing to adapt. 

The fire alarm company will make the job more than it needs to be. 

If the GC is good, it will help. If they are bad, it will be a nightmare. 

The prints are a mess, they want the circuits where they want them, but 31, 33 and 35 will be in 3 different parts of the store. 

Check the D prints, they trump everything. 

Go underground with as much as you can. 

There is more, PM me if you have any questions.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Don't forget the stupid 2 wraps of tape on the devices.:thumbdown:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Don't forget the stupid 2 wraps of tape on the devices.:thumbdown:


Is that a joke? :blink:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

no joke...it's in the specs...and they look for it...


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Is that a joke? :blink:


 No. And Walgreens has there own inspector that comes and looks at the job. The inspector around the Carolina's is a complete dumb ass.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

william1978 said:


> No. And Walgreens has there own inspector that comes and looks at the job. The inspector around the Carolina's is a complete dumb ass.


Because he enforces their specs? :001_huh:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

JayH said:


> Because he enforces their specs? :001_huh:


 No he doesn't have a clue about the NEC and he owns a electrical company. I have dealt with him with his business.:thumbdown:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*kWalgreens*



JayH said:


> A shop I worked for a few years back was in tight with Walgreens.
> 
> Their specifications make for a very expensive project. Independent ground for every circuit, oversized conduit, etc.
> 
> ...


How did you accomplish the independant ground for every circuit?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I was involved with a Walgreens only as a worker, however, as the others have said they are incredibly detailed, fast paced and precise. There are a million things you need to pay attention to all at once because so much is going on. It's a bit like building a mini supermarket actually. 

The print details are important, if you can locate the ones you are actually supposed to use. The formeman on the job I was on stubbed up a whole bunch of stuff in the wrong place which we didn't realize until they were putting in the cabinetry. We were ripping up VCT and jackhammering the slab open in a nearly finished store - not good. :no:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> How did you accomplish the independant ground for every circuit?


 Pull a ground wire per cir.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Pull a ground wire per cir.


Okay, now I understand. Was it an EMT job?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldman said:


> YIf the GC is good, it will help. If they are bad, it will be a nightmare.


We had a bad GC. The job was beyond a nightmare. It was unmitigated torture. :laughing:


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

dawgs said:


> Do you remember about how many labor hours the job took?


 We bid a few walgreens a few years back..groundup,service,interior,site,etc.Fixtures supplied by owner?..no fire alarm...between 960 hrs & 1080hrs.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

we just did one where the GC was absolutely horrible (IMHO)...best of all, they played games with payments...we did well on the job in terms of install, my foreman was on the ball completely...but we did a lot of it in EMT, vs MC, which saved our hides for adding in circuits that did get missed..

but, there was no teamwork between the subs...everyone was out for themselves, so the field guys have to know what's happening and make sure that they don't get the shaft from another trade...

they will pave the drive whether you have your site conduits in the ground or not...


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

cobra50 said:


> We bid a few walgreens a few years back..groundup,service,interior,site,etc.Fixtures supplied by owner?..no fire alarm...between 960 hrs & 1080hrs.


Okay, what was the outcome?


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Okay, what was the outcome?


 We didn't win the bids...don't know


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

cobra50 said:


> We didn't win the bids...don't know


That may be a bad thing...or not. What did you learn from it? Were you too HIGH on the bid, or did you bid too high because you were not sure if your company could get it done and make MONEY. In either case, it could be a learning situation. I had a customer tell me that he liked the way I talked, and he felt that I knew what I was doing...but why was I $200.00 more than the others? I told him that, THEY MUST KNOW WHAT THEY ARE WORTH.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

cobra50 said:


> We bid a few walgreens a few years back..groundup,service,interior,site,etc.Fixtures supplied by owner?..no fire alarm...between 960 hrs & 1080hrs.


 Only 1080 hrs?


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Only 1080 hrs?


 Maybe low...stores are small avg. 14,000 sf, no fancy Lts. I thought we could get it done at those hrs. Did supermarkets for 27 yrs...Avg. 60,000 to 80,000 sf


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

the one we just did was estimated for about 2000 man hours, we did it in about 1700, and the guys really kicked tail...a good GC, and we probably could have done it in about 1500...a bad foreman easily could have turned this into 2300 hours...

this one had a basement...we also did the fire alarm....


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

cobra50 said:


> Maybe low...stores are small avg. 14,000 sf, no fancy Lts. I thought we could get it done at those hrs. Did supermarkets for 27 yrs...Avg. 60,000 to 80,000 sf


 Good luck.:thumbsup:


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Good luck.:thumbsup:


 Found the quote in my old laptop...was in 2001-acturality had 1100 hrs-all journeyman wage,$31,000.00 material cost-no site and fire wiring. Was trying to get in with this GC:blink:


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## prldrp1 (Jun 1, 2009)

Figure ALOT of overtime.....last one I worked on, they only allowed the conduits for the cash reg. to be in the slab. Alot of strip lights refers/coolers/data out the ass/ F.A....and as stated above, they don't care if you have your conduit installed, if the pavement is sched. do go in on a certain date...its going in, same as drywall/paint etc


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. I am at about 1200 man hours right now and have not taken off any site, service, or special systems. Do they typically quote site separate? when I got this from the GC he told me to not inlude site work, just building only. Also how much work is the cooler and freezer wiring? Drawings make it look as if I will need to install every control device and wire. Shows solid line as field wiring, and the whole drawing is solid line.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Will be about 24-30 man hours for cooler. Everything will be prepped during rough, and finish will be done standing on the unit. 1 rooftop unit controls both cooler and freezer compartments. 1 t-stat, 1 solinoid. Do not expect help from the refrigeration guys.


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## prldrp1 (Jun 1, 2009)

dawgs said:


> Thanks for the replies. I am at about 1200 man hours right now and have not taken off any site, service, or special systems. Do they typically quote site separate? when I got this from the GC he told me to not inlude site work, just building only. Also how much work is the cooler and freezer wiring? Drawings make it look as if I will need to install every control device and wire. Shows solid line as field wiring, and the whole drawing is solid line.


 
trying to remember, been a few yrs but, was 5 or six panels, 2 transformers, all the freezers have multi-circuits for door heaters etc, and by the time you have this all piped, the ceiling grid is going in which makes wire pulls interesting, they watch like a hawk and back charge for all bent grid.. we found that elect. motorized lifts saved alot of time, you will pull cat 6 (?) computer cable for days, one thing to remember, here in chicago,NO exposed wiring is allowed, so data,F.A., data, security, sound, all had to be in conduit. I am sure over the yrs they have moved to even more energy management control, also in this area, Walgreens doesn't own the buildings, they are leasing them for 25 yrs, so we were working for a property management company that was building to STRICT specs


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

All this makes it sound like a very stressful job. I know I couldn't move at light speed anymore, but maybe those younger than I would like this kind of challenge.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

oldman said:


> Will be about 24-30 man hours for cooler. Everything will be prepped during rough, and finish will be done standing on the unit. 1 rooftop unit controls both cooler and freezer compartments. 1 t-stat, 1 solinoid. Do not expect help from the refrigeration guys.


 
Never saw that arrangement, two evaps with one stat and one solenoid?


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

dawgs said:


> Thanks for the replies. I am at about 1200 man hours right now and have not taken off any site, service, or special systems. Do they typically quote site separate? when I got this from the GC he told me to not inlude site work, just building only. Also how much work is the cooler and freezer wiring? Drawings make it look as if I will need to install every control device and wire. Shows solid line as field wiring, and the whole drawing is solid line.


We did one in Brooklyn this past summer. All went well except for the Carrier control system, their sub was terrible. There wasn't anything out of the ordinary on the job. Three floors and no elevator wasn't fun.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

I have bid three of them and did not even get close. Started at 2,300 hours, then by the 3rd one was down to 2,000 hours and the shops that got it were around 1,500 hours.

At the time I bid these I was covered up in work and not hungry or all, or that excited about pulling miles and miles of LV cable, running all RGC underground for the lot lights and service and the endless notes and gotchas. 

If I bid one today, I would be a lot more competitive.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The formeman on the job I was on stubbed up a whole bunch of stuff in the wrong place which we didn't realize until they were putting in the cabinetry. We were ripping up VCT and jackhammering the slab open in a nearly finished store - not good. :no:



:laughing::laughing:


Yeah I think I recall seeing someone with a jack hammer when I was lucky enough to visit ....... oh wait that was me moving another pipe that missed a wall.:jester:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

What is VCT besides.. :blink:

*V*ery *C*rooked *T*ubing :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldman said:


> Will be about 24-30 man hours for cooler. Everything will be prepped during rough, and finish will be done standing on the unit. 1 rooftop unit controls both cooler and freezer compartments. 1 t-stat, 1 solinoid. Do not expect help from the refrigeration guys.


Yes, 3 days minimum. I got tasked with wiring the coolers after the foreman put another guy on it the day before and only ran ten feet of pipe and couldn't figure the system out. :laughing: And since our foreman didn't know anything about a Walgreens and didn't have any specs we had to rough it in and wire it once it was on site. Thankfully that wasn't too difficult as the electric room was right on the other side. We just flew in a bunch of MC cable. 

And yes, for such a small system it was a _lot_ of circuits to run. Door heaters, fans, condensate drain heater, door lights, temperature sensor, etc.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> 
> Yeah I think I recall seeing someone with a jack hammer when I was lucky enough to visit ....... oh wait that was me moving another pipe that missed a wall.:jester:




Yeah, it sure seemed like we were borrowing the site contractor's compressor and jack hammer a lot. :whistling2:


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> I have bid three of them and did not even get close. Started at 2,300 hours, then by the 3rd one was down to 2,000 hours and the shops that got it were around 1,500 hours.
> 
> At the time I bid these I was covered up in work and not hungry or all, or that excited about pulling miles and miles of LV cable, running all RGC underground for the lot lights and service and the endless notes and gotchas.
> 
> If I bid one today, I would be a lot more competitive.


My quote is starting to look pretty good.:thumbsup: Convert some of my journeyman hrs to apprentice and the # would be right there.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

The contractor I worked for was rumored to have lost $75,000 on the Walgreens job.


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The contractor I worked for was rumored to have lost $75,000 on the Walgreens job.


 Started by the contractor that came in 2nd


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> What is VCT besides.. :blink:
> 
> *V*ery *C*rooked *T*ubing :laughing:




Vinyl composition tile


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Vinyl composition tile


thanks Bob.. my mistake for thinking VCT was some kind of _electrical _thing :blink:


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The contractor I worked for was rumored to have lost $75,000 on the Walgreens job.


Well, there are no perfect estimates, and if there were you would never get the work in the first place. How you manage that job is everything.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

a $75k loss on that job is huge..i'd bet the original quote was in the $175-225k range.....


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

oldman said:


> a $75k loss on that job is huge..i'd bet the original quote was in the $175-225k range.....


With all due respect that is just speculation. It has been my experience that more money is lost in management than estimating. Sure the greatest PM could not pull a complete stinker out of the hole, but a good PM should be able to take a job at below cost and make something from it.

What I see a lot of are contractors leaving the Project Managing up to the foreman, or the foreman having to do it because the PM is an idiot. Don't get me wrong a good foreman is one of your most valuable assets but right behind him has to be a good PM to support him.

I am guilt of this too, my best foreman would make a GREAT PM, and knowing this, when things get busy I dump on him, and it cost me.. a lot.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> With all due respect that is just speculation. It has been my experience that more money is lost in management than estimating. Sure the greatest PM could not pull a complete stinker out of the hole, but a good PM should be able to take a job at below cost and make something from it.
> 
> What I see a lot of are contractors leaving the Project Managing up to the foreman, or the foreman having to do it because the PM is an idiot. Don't get me wrong a good foreman is one of your most valuable assets but right behind him has to be a good PM to support him.
> 
> I am guilt of this too, my best foreman would make a GREAT PM, and knowing this, when things get busy I dump on him, and it cost me.. a lot.


i agree with you....estimating accurately is easy....getting the men to run the job as planned, not always so easy...


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## cobra50 (Aug 12, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> Well, there are no perfect estimates, and if there were you would never get the work in the first place. How you manage that job is everything.


"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
-Albert Einstein


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

All of my estimator are PMs too, there is no finger pointing in my office. If you lose money on a job, we all know who to blame.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> Well, there are no perfect estimates, and if there were you would never get the work in the first place. How you manage that job is everything.


True, but $75,000 is an awful lot to pay to discover the learning curve of a Walgreen's. 

It boiled down to a perfect storm - a bad estimate, a bad GC, an inexperienced foreman and a revolving door of electricians who went in and out of the job so there was no continuity of thought process. That's how you lose $75,000 on a Walgreen's.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

PhatElvis said:


> All of my estimator are PMs too, there is no finger pointing in my office. If you lose money on a job, we all know who to blame.


 The helper.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Well my hat is off to all you who continue with estimating, and pursuit of this type of endeavor. Fortune favors the brave.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

If Bob wants to abuse powder thats his business, just show ready for work Monday....http://www.bigwhitesilverstar.com/pi...ski-powder.jpg 


:laughing::laughing:


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## ChrisTravis (Sep 17, 2007)

I just bid one as well. I am not a seasoned estimator, so it was especially tough. Something like 100 notes per page. Twenty pages of E sheets on such a small building. I had my Dad double check my work. He has been estimating for 25 years. He said Walgreen's were always a nightmare.


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## angela lawrence (Dec 3, 2009)

about to take a hands on 2 part test @ the ibew because i am a non member. any idea what this test is on. help


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

angela lawrence said:


> about to take a hands on 2 part test @ the ibew because i am a non member. any idea what this test is on. help


 
No idea, but welcome to the forum :thumbsup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> The contractor I worked for was rumored to have lost $75,000 on the Walgreens job


 
He should have hired some competent help. :jester:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> He should have hired some competent help. :jester:


That rules you out.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

^ weak 

You lobbed a softball. I had no choice but to hit it.


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