# 208v elements for my 240v range



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Does anyone sell these? I have 208v in my condo and the crappy cheap GE stove takes a billion years to cook anything. The small elements are completely useless and the one large element is barely enough. I googled around but it looks like all the elements any appliance parts site lists are 240v or 208/240v which obviously are going to provide reduced heat at 208v. I need something specifically designed for 208.
> 
> One thing is for sure, my next place will have a gas stove.


Buy a buck boost, I doubt you will find 208 volt elements.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Try calling GE customer support.. they must make something that fixes your problem...


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Buy a buck boost, I doubt you will find 208 volt elements.


I would, but I don't own the condo or the stove. Not sure where I would mount a BB either.



B4T said:


> Try calling GE customer support.. they must make something that fixes your problem...


I'll check them out, though the nameplate doesn't say 208/240v like some ranges, it only says "240v". Range is only 3 years old.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Just learn to live with a stove that's running at 75%.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Vintage Sounds said:


> I'll check them out, though the nameplate doesn't say 208/240v like some ranges, it only says "240v". Range is only 3 years old.


So someone ordered the wrong range.. 

There are millions of condo's and apartments that use 208V for stoves and dryers...

Last thing GE wants are builders not using their appliances because of the heating problems...


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Vintage Sounds said:


> I would, but I don't own the condo or the stove. Not sure where I would mount a BB either.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll check them out, though the nameplate doesn't say 208/240v like some ranges, it only says "240v". Range is only 3 years old.



The BB would be pretty small. I'd be tempted to see if I could find one laying around the shop. Put it in the drawer below the oven door. :laughing:


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Just learn to live with a stove that's running at 75%.


Nope.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Just learn to live with a stove that's running at 75%.


This coming from a guy who has rabbit ears for a TV antenna.. :laughing:


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

You could always go drop a couple hundred on an induction hotplate.....might have to buy a pot and pan or two if yours are the "wrong" material too, but at least you take it with when you move.


http://www.sears.com/kenmore-elite-portable-induction-cooktop-with-non-stick-fry-pan/p-00809000000P



edit: some reading: http://theinductionsite.com/proandcon.shtml


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> This coming from a guy who has rabbit ears for a TV antenna.. :laughing:


So ?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Bulldog1 said:


> The BB would be pretty small. I'd be tempted to see if I could find one laying around the shop. Put it in the draw below the oven door. :laughing:


That was my plan, I never got around to it. 

I figured just set it up with male and female whips off it and through it in the drawer


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Actually, stuffing it in the drawer doesn't sound too bad. I would have to find out what price I could get on a BB in Calgary after I get back there in the new year. 



stuiec said:


> You could always go drop a couple hundred on an induction hotplate.....might have to buy a pot and pan or two if yours are the "wrong" material too, but at least you take it with when you move.
> 
> 
> http://www.sears.com/kenmore-elite-portable-induction-cooktop-with-non-stick-fry-pan/p-00809000000P
> ...


I've thought about that, and I do have a nice Le Creuset cast iron pot...hmmm


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

This an 8" I guess they have all sizes. Merry Christmas

http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Coil-Surface-Element/1697201/908057
*Coil Surface Element 1697201
*Item #908057 (OEM Part) 
*$62.70
*Surface element, 2-7/8 inch, 208 volts, 1250 watts, single coil
Manufacturer Number 1697201
More 
In Stock:thumbsup:


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## Bucket of Ohms (Dec 25, 2012)

B4T said:


> This coming from a guy who has rabbit ears for a TV antenna.. :laughing:


Buckets. Beeper.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Vintage Sounds said:


> I would, but I don't own the condo or the stove. Not sure where I would mount a BB either.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll check them out, though the nameplate doesn't say 208/240v like some ranges, it only says "240v". Range is only 3 years old.


You could put a bull tail range cord on a buck/boost and chase nipple a 4" square box to it with a receptacle in it. Kinda like range extension cord, just with a transformer in-line.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bucket of Ohms said:


> Buckets. Beeper.


Peter.. Merry christmas.. :thumbup:


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## Bucket of Ohms (Dec 25, 2012)

B4T said:


> Peter.. Merry christmas.. :thumbup:


Thanks, you too. 

But who is Peter? :whistling2:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

GE appliances are mega *GARBAGE*. There is a reason why they are found in most apartments and anywhere builders grade appliances are worshiped.

Getting a new element might help a little, but your best bet is a 208 to 120/240 transformer. At that price your better off getting an induction cook top or going gas.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I used to have GE electrique range that is factory set up with 208 heating elements they work fine but the control for oven went to dump so end up got Fridgeaire they say it work on 208 without too much effort but end up order a correct one from factory and slove all the issue.

I know for a fact the GE do sell a range that is set up for 208 volts but little hard to find that one due most are dual voltage rated on larger unit but smaller that is iffy.

Merci,
Marc


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Just learn to live with a stove that's running at 75%.


 240x75%=180.There's those dogs barking Jingle Bells, again.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Vintage Sounds said:


> I would, but I don't own the condo or the stove. Not sure where I would mount a BB either.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll check them out, though the nameplate doesn't say 208/240v like some ranges, it only says "240v". Range is only 3 years old.


Are you really considering changing all of the heating elements?
For the price of a 2000 watt BB transformer, you could get there.
Line load cord body and plug. It can easily fit in the empty drawer under the oven. 
Description made very vague as to only encourage electricians to give this a try.
BTW, this is done on ranges during cooking exhibitions.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

This is from the GE tech support FAQ search:


Range - Oven preheat time is too long.

Preheat time varies according to oven type. If the oven is installed at its proper voltage (120 volts for gas and 240 volts for electric):
Electric Ovens with Hidden Bake Elements and Gas Ovens can take 15-20 minutes to preheat
Ovens with a visible bottom bake element can take 5-10 minutes to preheat.
This is a normal operation and the preheat time cannot be altered. 

Factors that will affect the preheat time are:
Selected temperature
Starting temperature of the oven
Room temperature
208 volt installation will increase pre-heat time by 25%
Below 105 volt gas installation


You might be SOL unless you do the BB transformer


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> 240x75%=180.There's those dogs barking Jingle Bells, again.


You're leaving out the affect on the current. Since it's a resistive load, If the voltage drop to 86.67%, the current will drop by 86.67%. 208 is 86.67% of 240.

Since the power is measured by voltage times current, you have two pieces of the formula dropping by 86.67% each.

W=EI

So, W = 86.67%E*86.67%I or (86.67*86.67) 75% *E*I.

Yes, a stove operating at 208 will have 25% less power than the same stove operating at 240.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

I don't think you need a 2kva, a 1 kva should do. around a hundred dollars from automation direct.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We get something like .998 va and the next up is something like 1.8kva


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> 240x75%=180.There's those dogs barking Jingle Bells, again.


Try again. This time use the right math.

Let's say the stove is rated 9600 watts. At 240 volts, that's 40 amps and 6 ohms. You remember Ohms Law, don't you?

If you apply 208 volts to the stove, the only constant is the 6 ohms. It will now consume 7210 watts and draw 34.6667 amps.

Last time I went to school, 7210/9600 is 0.75104. Or 75%.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

If you do use a buck-boost study the stove's wiring diagram before hooking it up. One of the hot legs is for the 120 volt controls, so just make sure the buck boost is not on that leg.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Can you really use a bb here...? Bb are based on a given load... the load with an electric oven/range varies with how many burners your using and if the oven is on...
To size a bb you nee the voltage your jumping times the load(VA). the va will vary.

I guess you can size it for the total load of the unit...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

meadow said:


> if you do use a buck-boost study the stove's wiring diagram before hooking it up. One of the hot legs is for the 120 volt controls, so just make sure the buck boost is not on that leg.


dude!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

captkirk said:


> Can you really use a bb here...? Bb are based on a given load... the load with an electric oven/range varies with how many burners your using and if the oven is on...
> To size a bb you nee the voltage your jumping times the load(VA). the va will vary.
> 
> I guess you can size it for the total load of the unit...


Yes you can in this case.

Perhaps you are thinking of when someone tries to use a BB to overcome voltage drop on long circuits. In that case the voltage would vary depending on the load.


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## Ontariojer (May 19, 2011)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Does anyone sell these? I have 208v in my condo and the crappy cheap GE stove takes a billion years to cook anything. The small elements are completely useless and the one large element is barely enough. I googled around but it looks like all the elements any appliance parts site lists are 240v or 208/240v which obviously are going to provide reduced heat at 208v. I need something specifically designed for 208.
> 
> One thing is for sure, my next place will have a gas stove.



http://www.reliableparts.ca/locations/AB
These guys have them for sure.
They are probably not in stock, but they are very common in high rises, so should be readily available.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Ontariojer said:


> http://www.reliableparts.ca/locations/AB
> These guys have them for sure.
> They are probably not in stock, but they are very common in high rises, so should be readily available.


See post #14 they have them in stock, if the OP has the money.


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## Ontariojer (May 19, 2011)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> See post #14 they have them in stock, if the OP has the money.


They are $25 at reliable, and they have a physical location in his town.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I am going to try Reliable for just the larger element(the only one I care about anyway) and if that doesn't work, I'll see what a buck boost might cost. If it's more than maybe $250 I'll just put go for the induction plate. Always did want to try induction cooking.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Did you call GE customer support and ask what fix they have for your problem??


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Did you call GE customer support and ask what fix they have for your problem??


To GE or any of the other makers it is not a 'problem' there are tens of thousands of ranges running on 208. They will cook things, it just takes longer. 

The same applies to water heaters and dryers.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I am going to try Reliable for just the larger element(the only one I care about anyway) and if that doesn't work, I'll see what a buck boost might cost. If it's more than maybe $250 I'll just put go for the induction plate. Always did want to try induction cooking.


I would buy another range set up for 208 volts. Stuff the other one in a closet or garage until you move.
You can recoup some of the money if you sell it. :001_huh:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I am going to try Reliable for just the larger element(the only one I care about anyway) and if that doesn't work, I'll see what a buck boost might cost. If it's more than maybe $250 I'll just put go for the induction plate. Always did want to try induction cooking.


I can buy the 1kw at around $70 so, if you think you are up to the job, it will come in at around $100 cost of materials plus your time.


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## sprdave (Jan 12, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Try again. This time use the right math.
> 
> Let's say the stove is rated 9600 watts. At 240 volts, that's 40 amps and 6 ohms. You remember Ohms Law, don't you?
> 
> ...


Or more simply without all the theory/calcs, look at the power formula 
P = E² / R
where E has exponential effect on P

(208/240)² = ~75%

Bob used Ohms law I = E / R (for current when we're talking power)
where E is proportional to I


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

sprdave said:


> Or more simply without all the theory/calcs, look at the power formula
> P = E² / R
> where E has exponential effect on P
> 
> ...


The 6 ohms can't be measured with an ohmeter it has to be calculated. And, the element's resistance changes with temperature, and voltage. This problem is not as easy as it seems.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> And, the element's resistance changes with temperature, and voltage. This problem is not as easy as it seems.


Is the heat output a linear graph when compared to voltage? In other words, as the voltage is increased (straight line on a graph), does the heat output follow a straight line?


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Is the heat output a linear graph when compared to voltage? In other words, as the voltage is increased (straight line on a graph), does the heat output follow a straight line?


I don't believe it is linear Lou. I was thinking of setting up a burner and plotting voltage, current and temperature.

Current draw may even be affected by load i.e. how big the pot of water is, sitting on the burner, since the burner wouldn't get so hot or it's resistance go so high. 

Would be a nice JC experiment.


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## sprdave (Jan 12, 2012)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> The 6 ohms can't be measured with an ohmeter it has to be calculated. And, the element's resistance changes with temperature, and voltage. This problem is not as easy as it seems.


I was merely pointing out the you can see/calculate the effect of voltage change in the formula, don't need to calculate out all these numbers. With the assumption that resistance on a hot vs a hotter element doesn't change hugely for the purpose of this discussion.

But I see your point that, if the lower voltage isn't putting out as much, it's not as hot, has a lower resistance. I would be curious to know if it changes much.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I don't believe it is linear Lou. I was thinking of setting up a burner and plotting voltage, current and temperature.
> 
> Current draw may even be affected by load i.e. how big the pot of water is, sitting on the burner, since the burner wouldn't get so hot or it's resistance go so high.
> 
> Would be a nice JC experiment.


I spoke with an EE once and asked him about this and he said the heat output was linear on an electric stove. I told him it seemed intuitive to me that it was not. 

I would love to see the results of an experiment on this.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

sprdave said:


> I was merely pointing out the you can see/calculate the effect of voltage change in the formula, don't need to calculate out all these numbers. With the assumption that resistance on a hot vs a hotter element doesn't change hugely for the purpose of this discussion.
> 
> But I see your point that, if the lower voltage isn't putting out as much, it's not as hot, has a lower resistance. I would be curious to know if it changes much.


Dave I didn't mean to be critical. I think everyone is on the same page but I/we could probably learn a lot from an experiment.

All we need is someone w/ the time, tools and desire to put it together.

What we need is....._Cletis!_ :thumbsup:


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## sprdave (Jan 12, 2012)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Dave I didn't mean to be critical. I think everyone is on the same page but I/we could probably learn a lot from an experiment.
> 
> All we need is someone w/ the time, tools and desire to put it together.
> 
> What we need is....._Cletis!_ :thumbsup:


I didn't think you were, just saying I didn't think about it that deeply, thanks for pointing it out.

Hmm I may just have to think of something since it's going to bug me now...I just don't have access to much though. It should be the same effect with a baseboard or water heater right? Maybe the water would keep the temperature more constant though?


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

sprdave said:


> I didn't think you were, just saying I didn't think about it that deeply, thanks for pointing it out.
> 
> Hmm I may just have to think of something since it's going to bug me now...I just don't have access to much though. It should be the same effect with a baseboard or water heater right? Maybe the water would keep the temperature more constant though?


True, a baseboard heater (w/ fins) and a waterheater (surrounded by water) are pretty constant heat sinks, compared to a stovetop element which may go from 70 deg to red hot w/o something sitting on it.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

B4T said:


> Did you call GE customer support and ask what fix they have for your problem??


Well I am in Toronto visiting family over the Christmas break right now and don't have the range or model number in front of me, so I don't think it would be worth it to call them until I get back to Calgary. Also, even though it's a GE range, the manufacturer is someone else. I forget the name but it's written on the range next to the nameplate, inside the drawer. Not sure how that factors in.



retiredsparktech said:


> I would buy another range set up for 208 volts. Stuff the other one in a closet or garage until you move.
> You can recoup some of the money if you sell it. :001_huh:


Heh..the condo is less than 700 square feet, there is no way I have space for an extra range just 'sitting around'. 



jrannis said:


> I can buy the 1kw at around $70 so, if you think you are up to the job, it will come in at around $100 cost of materials plus your time.


I'm definitely up to the job, but I have a feeling the cost of a 1 or 1.5 kVA BB transformer at suppliers in my area would definitely be higher than $70. I won't know till I get back there and check it out though. Seems like all I would need is a stove whip, BB transformer, chase nipple, a bit of scrap #8, 4-11/16 box and a 14-50R receptacle.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Is the heat output a linear graph when compared to voltage? In other words, as the voltage is increased (straight line on a graph), does the heat output follow a straight line?


 Reading this posting got me going!
My Whirlpool glass-top range has two ratings on it.
9.6 KW @ 120/208 and 12.8 KW @ 120/240 volts. A lot of difference.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

retiredsparktech said:


> Reading this posting got me going!
> My Whirlpool glass-top range has two ratings on it.
> 9.6 KW @ 120/208 and 12.8 KW @ 120/240 volts. A lot of difference.


Yea, 25%.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

retiredsparktech said:


> Reading this posting got me going!
> My Whirlpool glass-top range has two ratings on it.
> 9.6 KW @ 120/208 and 12.8 KW @ 120/240 volts. A lot of difference.



9600/12800 = 0.75.

My math must be off .

Or so I'm told.


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## sprdave (Jan 12, 2012)

I was thinking about this, and anytime Ive paid attention to ratings on 208/240 rated devices like water heaters, baseboards, stove elements, the 208 wattage has always been ~75% of 240... So are they accurate and resistance doesn't measurably change or are they using faulty math too......


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