# Average amount of wire used



## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

What would be your average amount of wire used on a "standard" 2000 sqft single story home? 
1000'- 12/2
2000'-14/2
750'-14/3

Unless I were in one of the neighboring cities that require all 12 wire.


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

that seems very high.

14/3 200ft
14/2 1000 ft
12/2 1500 ft


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## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

Maybe it is high, but it seems like I always end up running floodlights or long feeds or something that just eats the wire up.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Honestly said:


> What would be your average amount of wire used on a "standard" 2000 sqft single story home?
> 1000'- 12/2
> 2000'-14/2
> 750'-14/3
> ...


Haven't found that average house yet. But! 

More 12/2(1500)
Less 14/2(1200)
More 14/3(1000)
10/3 to dryer (depends)
10/2 to WH and AC(depends)
6/3 to range (depends)


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm less than half of that . 2000 sq ft is small.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

butcher733 said:


> that seems very high.
> 
> 14/3 200ft
> 14/2 1000 ft
> 12/2 1500 ft


The 12-2 seems ok but the 14-2 seems way low. I would use at least 2500'. maybe this is why I can't do houses anymore. That pride thing is killing me.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I would do it with the absolute minimum possible. With some forethought and careful planning it's easy to conserve wire.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> The 12-2 seems ok but the 14-2 seems way low. I would use at least 2500'. maybe this is why I can't do houses anymore. That pride thing is killing me.


I agree. Usually I would buy the same amount of 14/2 as the sq. Ft. of the house. More or less, it was pretty close. 

And yes, most guys would/could do it with less. Probably why it was hard for me to make money wiring new homes as well.


MTW said:


> I would do it with the absolute minimum possible. With some forethought and careful planning it's easy to conserve wire.


I'd be interested in hearing (or pics!) what you do differently than others. I dont feel that I am wasteful with wire at all, but Im always interested on picking up new methods.

The only thing (that I see..) that i do differently than most, is I like to leave a little slack at each box. Not much, but enough. Most guys pull everything tight.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> I'd be interested in hearing (or pics!) what you do differently than others. I dont feel that I am wasteful with wire at all, but Im always interested on picking up new methods.
> 
> The only thing (that I see..) that i do differently than most, is I like to leave a little slack at each box. Not much, but enough. Most guys pull everything tight.


By far the biggest way to save is not going crazy with circuitry. Code minimum is completely adequate. Wiring everything overkill wastes time and material for no benefit whatsoever, especially when doing spec/tract houses.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Vaulted ceilings ?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> By far the biggest way to save is not going crazy with circuitry. Code minimum is completely adequate. Wiring everything overkill wastes time and material for no benefit whatsoever, especially when doing spec/tract houses.


You've got my attention now. Let me go over a small 1800 3/2 one story with you. General lighting & power circuitry only. Everything else is self explanatory..

I would usually put the two small bedrooms together. Lights & receptacles. This was also the circuit I would feed the smoke detectors on.

Master & master bath on one. Lights & receptacles.

Living rm by itself. Lights & recptacles.

My GFI circuit. Garage, outside, and under house if no slab.

And then I usually had 2 light circuits to cover the rest. I would try to keep them at 9 - 10 lights per circuit, ceiling fan would count as two, bath fans as one.

What do you say?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> You've got my attention now. Let me go over a small 1800 3/2 one story with you. General lighting & power circuitry only. Everything else is self explanatory..
> 
> I would usually put the two small bedrooms together. Lights & receptacles. This was also the circuit I would feed the smoke detectors on.
> 
> ...


Bump. MTW.....:whistling2:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> Bump. MTW.....:whistling2:


Sorry. Anyway, I agree with your list. As for the other stuff, I would only run 2 SABC circuits to the kitchen and utilize those for the dining room and refrigerator as well. I'd also run all #14 for the appliance circuits - micro and dishwasher.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Do you go up and over or down and under ? Up and over waste too much wire. 
Do you include basement pullchains on local 1st floor circuits? 
Do you feed the SDs in the basement and then use the SD 3 wire to carry your feed to each bedrooms overhead light?
Do you drill angles between points?
#14 wire for dedicated circuits ?
All bathroom receptacles covered on one #12 ckt and one GFCI in first bathroom?
Outdoor receptacle piggybacked loadside of panel GFCI

Yeah it's somewhat cut throat but it passes inspection and makes me money


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> Sorry. Anyway, I agree with your list. As for the other stuff, I would only run 2 SABC circuits to the kitchen and utilize those for the dining room and refrigerator as well. I'd also run all #14 for the appliance circuits - micro and dishwasher.


I put the fridge as the first rec on one of the sabc. I dont put the dining rm on it though. Ive been afraid of call backs since it requires acfi protection on a GFI circuit. Dont know if that is a valid concern or just overly cautious, but most guys around here pull dining rm on its own circuit now cause of arc fault.

I pull each dw & gd on there own 14/2 circuit. But im thinking of changing this...a guy I work with pulls a 12/2 and puts them both on it. Another thought is what the older guys used to do and pull 14/3 and just use a two pole 15 a breaker. I dont know if the price of the breaker will offset the price of pulling two 14/2 runs. The 12/2 idea sounds cheap too.

I know im splitting hairs over a nickle & a dime, but im always looking for better methods.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> I put the fridge as the first rec on one of the sabc. I dont put the dining rm on it though. Ive been afraid of call backs since it requires acfi protection on a GFI circuit. Dont know if that is a valid concern or just overly cautious, but most guys around here pull dining rm on its own circuit now cause of arc fault.
> 
> I pull each dw & gd on there own 14/2 circuit. But im thinking of changing this...a guy I work with pulls a 12/2 and puts them both on it. Another thought is what the older guys used to do and pull 14/3 and just use a two pole 15 a breaker. I dont know if the price of the breaker will offset the price of pulling two 14/2 runs. The 12/2 idea sounds cheap too.
> 
> I know im splitting hairs over a nickle & a dime, but im always looking for better methods.


I don't think it's splitting hairs at all. I'm all about doing jobs efficiently with the least amount of material. :thumbsup: 

There's an EC in my area that specialized in new homes exclusively. If a new home is built, there is a good chance they wired it. Anyway, they run one 14/2 for the DW and disposal, and usually put all the bedrooms on once circuit.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MHElectric said:


> I put the fridge as the first rec on one of the sabc. I dont put the dining rm on it though. Ive been afraid of call backs since it requires acfi protection on a GFI circuit. Dont know if that is a valid concern or just overly cautious, but most guys around here pull dining rm on its own circuit now cause of arc fault.
> 
> I pull each dw & gd on there own 14/2 circuit. But im thinking of changing this...a guy I work with pulls a 12/2 and puts them both on it. Another thought is what the older guys used to do and pull 14/3 and just use a two pole 15 a breaker. I dont know if the price of the breaker will offset the price of pulling two 14/2 runs. The 12/2 idea sounds cheap too.
> 
> I know im splitting hairs over a nickle & a dime, but im always looking for better methods.


If there is an issue, direct the customer to voice their opinion about the AFCI/GFCI to the NFPA. It's not your problem.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MTW said:


> I don't think it's splitting hairs at all. I'm all about doing jobs efficiently with the least amount of material. :thumbsup:
> 
> There's an EC in my area that specialized in new homes exclusively. If a new home is built, there is a good chance they wired it. Anyway, they run one 14/2 for the DW and disposal, and usually put all the bedrooms on once circuit.


How do they get away with the DW and GD on same circuit? They both draw an average of 10 to 12 amps each.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Do you go up and over or down and under ? Up and over waste too much wire.
> Do you include basement pullchains on local 1st floor circuits?
> Do you feed the SDs in the basement and then use the SD 3 wire to carry your feed to each bedrooms overhead light?
> Do you drill angles between points?
> ...


I put an over-the-range microwave on a 15a circuit once and had to come back and change it to a 20a because it kept tripping.

Other than that, your list sounds about right. I drill and pull through the walls where I can, and then go up and over every where else. Most new homes we wired were on slabs. Most crawl space homes, I didn't wire under the house much because alot of times I would be working by myself, and that is a real pain when your flying solo.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> I don't think it's splitting hairs at all. I'm all about doing jobs efficiently with the least amount of material. :thumbsup:
> 
> There's an EC in my area that specialized in new homes exclusively. If a new home is built, there is a good chance they wired it. Anyway, they run one 14/2 for the DW and disposal, and usually put all the bedrooms on once circuit.


I think my biggest concern is not having call backs. Im all for code minimum wiring just like im all for above-and-beyond wiring....whatever the customer can pay for doesn't matter to me if im making money.

Call backs suck though, You cant make any money when you have callbacks. This is what makes me wary sometimes and sometimes I go overboard because of it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MTW said:


> Sorry. Anyway, I agree with your list. As for the other stuff, I would only run 2 SABC circuits to the kitchen and utilize those for the dining room and refrigerator as well. I'd also run all #14 for the appliance circuits - micro and dishwasher.


And article xxxx says that?:blink:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

you guys make jealous that you can 14 for anything. i cant by local code, but HD and LOWES sure stock a lot of it! wonder where thats goin?:whistling2:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

papaotis said:


> you guys make jealous that you can 14 for anything. i cant by local code, but HD and LOWES sure stock a lot of it! wonder where thats goin?:whistling2:


The last guy who undercut your bid and didn't get it inspected.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Do you go up and over or down and under ? Up and over waste too much wire.
> Do you include basement pullchains on local 1st floor circuits?
> Do you feed the SDs in the basement and then use the SD 3 wire to carry your feed to each bedrooms overhead light?
> Do you drill angles between points?
> ...


MWBC and aluminum for everything over 20amps. Switched recepts and switch legs too:thumbup:

Of course thats for those looking for code minimum.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MTW said:


> Sorry. Anyway, I agree with your list. As for the other stuff, I would only run 2 SABC circuits to the kitchen and utilize those for the dining room and refrigerator as well. I'd also run all #14 for the appliance circuits - micro and dishwasher.





HARRY304E said:


> And article xxxx says that?:blink:


Says what?


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

MHElectric said:


> The only thing (that I see..) that i do differently than most, is I like to leave a little slack at each box. Not much, but enough. Most guys pull everything tight.


I used do the same thing, then the JM would always come by and pull it tight.  Inches add up to feet which add up to money...


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

That_Dude said:


> I used do the same thing, then the JM would always come by and pull it tight.  Inches add up to feet which add up to money...


Why leave slack for the next guy or handyman , it's money out of your pocket.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

Shockdoc said:


> Why leave slack for the next guy or handyman , it's money out of your pocket.


I always leave around 6" of slack on each cable to a box, 99% of the time I'm the next guy that comes along to add, move, improve, etc.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

electricmalone said:


> I always leave around 6" of slack on each cable to a box, 99% of the time I'm the next guy that comes along to add, move, improve, etc.


Yup. You never know whether the HO wants to add something else where you have to rip out your own work after the rock goes up, or the drywall monkeys are too shaky from their come-down and get over zealous with their rotozip.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Here is my thing with houses. If I use a little more wire it might cost me a couple hundred bucks. 
It is the labor that just ****ing kills me. That is what I need to know how to fix.
I like doing houses. A few years ago I did maybe 30, this year I might do 3. I just lose my ass every time.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> Here is my thing with houses. If I use a little more wire it might cost me a couple hundred bucks.
> It is the labor that just ****ing kills me. That is what I need to know how to fix.
> I like doing houses. A few years ago I did maybe 30, this year I might do 3. I just lose my ass every time.


What type of houses are you usually wiring? Small spec homes, med sized, custom?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Working for an EC specializing in new homes was one of the best experiences I ever had. I learned a great deal about speed and efficiency for that kind of work.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MHElectric said:


> What type of houses are you usually wiring? Small spec homes, med sized, custom?


Never basic specs but not huge ones either. Normally 2 to 4 thousand sq ft homes with finished basements. Some all electric and some not. Pretty much a 400 amp service in all of them.

Actually I am starting one in a few weeks. 2,300 sq feet with a finished basement. I need to figure out how to keep it under $20K. I really don't think I can do it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Actually I am starting one in a few weeks. 2,300 sq feet with a finished basement. I need to figure out how to keep it under $20K. I really don't think I can do it.



A 2,300 sq ft house and you can't do it for under 20K?  Wow...just wow. :blink:


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## daniel487 (Mar 18, 2013)

About 16 years ago, when I first got my license, I got elected to do all the wiring in the 1500 square foot addition my aunt had put onto her house (side note - never do work for relatives, but that's another story). We were going over materials / placement of outlets, special things she wanted, etc. She said "oh, you won't have to use any of your wire, I bought all the wire we will need today." Puzzled, I asked her how much she bought (she knows nothing about wiring) She replied, oh, I bought a WHOLE roll. This roll was 250 feet and was expected to do the entire house, in her mind. I explained to her we would need much more than that, and she doubted my abilities. As I recall, I ended up using about 2500 feet of wire, give or take a little bit.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MTW said:


> A 2,300 sq ft house and you can't do it for under 20K?  Wow...just wow. :blink:


I totally understand. I don't know either. Although most have around 60 to 70 cans and I include trims and **** like that. I will seriously end up with around 50 circuits in this house. It will have gas heat and electric WH. Maybe 2. 
If you can help I would be all for it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> I totally understand. I don't know either. Although most have around 60 to 70 cans and I include trims and **** like that. I will seriously end up with around 50 circuits in this house. It will have gas heat and electric WH. Maybe 2.
> If you can help I would be all for it.


That's more custom than I'm used to so maybe 20K isn't unreasonable, but 50 circuits for a house that size is definitely extreme overkill. I'd start with the circuitry. More careful planning will lead to less thinking while working and less time wasted figuring everything out as you go along. Getting the overkill bug out of your system is the first step towards recovery. :laughing:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Yea, I hear you. I used to put one guy on it and let him plug away. Maybe yank him off for a service call or two. This one I am going to try to have **** ready and really hit it hard for a few days. get all the RI done.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Yea, I hear you. I used to put one guy on it and let him plug away. Maybe yank him off for a service call or two. This one I am going to try to have **** ready and really hit it hard for a few days. get all the RI done.


The company I worked for would crank out houses like that. We would put 4 guys on it and it would be done in a few days. Granted we didn't have that many recessed but it was still 4 bed rooms and bonus room, master suite, 2.5 baths, 3 car garage, etc.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> Working for an EC specializing in new homes was one of the best experiences I ever had. I learned a great deal about speed and efficiency for that kind of work.


You know, I liked wiring houses. The money just wasn't equal to the amount of work it involved.

I just finished up roughing in a re-wire job on the side. T&M only. And I made great money on it. It made me miss wiring new homes al the time. But honestly, I have wired homes all by myself, and ive wired homes with 3 guys working next to me, and i never made great money doing it. Remodels and service took the cake every time.

Ive flirted with th idea of calling up an old builder I worked for and seeing if i could wire some houses for him again. But I just cant make any money at it. Even doing the whole thing by myself!!! That's a shame, the sq. Ft. price around here is just too friggin low.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I am going to try it and try to keep a good track on ****. I am going to try to put 4 or 5 hours myself into it a day just so I know what is going on. My industrial stuff is easy but this new resi stuff has me stumped. You know it is tugher with these new codes than it used to be. heck a person could have a grand of AFCI breakers if they did not pay attention.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MHElectric said:


> You know, I liked wiring houses. The money just wasn't equal to the amount of work it involved.
> 
> I just finished up roughing in a re-wire job on the side. T&M only. And I made great money on it. It made me miss wiring new homes al the time. But honestly, I have wired homes all by myself, and ive wired homes with 3 guys working next to me, and i never made great money doing it. Remodels and service took the cake every time.
> 
> Ive flirted with th idea of calling up an old builder I worked for and seeing if i could wire some houses for him again. But I just cant make any money at it. Even doing the whole thing by myself!!! That's a shame, the sq. Ft. price around here is just too friggin low.


This is right on.I love houses myself but I just can't afford to do em.


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## ResidentialAL (11 mo ago)

butcher733 said:


> that seems very high.
> 
> 14/3 200ft
> 14/2 1000 ft
> 12/2 1500 ft


Actually you seem very low at only 200' 14/3 to wire a house? Thats a few circuits at best and without any fans etc.?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

NINE YEARS!


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

backstay said:


> NINE YEARS!


I closed the thread. Problem solved.


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