# BIM's



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I'am currently working on a job that has BIM's. They seem to be more and more popular lately and this is a first for me. It seems to be a way to screw the electrician. I am I alone in this thinking. It's probably hard to tell in these pics but we have 4-4" that have a 45 kick go to 3' jbox, come out of the side of the box and 90 over to there original route. What would have been an easy straight pull of 500's is now all f-d up. In another case I had to move a ton of 3/4" conduits when a firesprinkler line couldn't be raised an 1-1/8th because the BIM's. Today I heard it cost $50g to have them made. I about freaked out.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BIM's???:blink::blink:


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

if the estimator didn't pick it up, then it's gonna add up and hurt


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Building information modeling


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

wildleg said:


> if the estimator didn't pick it up, then it's gonna add up and hurt


He got it, but it seems like a fancy thing to waste public money on. An architects version of shiny spinning rims.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

And six months after the last final inspection, all the craigslist and midnite coyboy electrics go in and start stringing romex and bx runs all over the place with zero supports and so forth, so whats the point in BIM's again?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> BIM's???:blink::blink:


It's basically a 3d drawing of your pipes with measurements from a wall and height from the floor. One major goof is that that big can in the pick is above a hard lid. Weasle-**** tony just figured it out and asked if we'd need access to that box. They're RFI'ing it.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> And six months after the last final inspection, all the craigslist and midnite coyboy electrics go in and start stringing romex and bx runs all over the place with zero supports and so forth, so whats the point in BIM's again?


You saw my data center floor pics from the same building right? Here's a refresher....


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Bkessler said:


> It's basically a 3d drawing of your pipes with measurements from a wall and height from the floor. One major goof is that that big can in the pick is above a hard lid. Weasle-**** tony just figured it out and asked if we'd need access to that box. They're RFI'ing it.


I see a fire rated access door in your future :laughing:


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

360max said:


> I see a fire rated access door in your future :laughing:


I said no, seal it up. But he sensed my sarcasm and actually could tell i was laughing at him and not with him.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> I'am currently working on a job that has BIM's. They seem to be more and more popular lately and this is a first for me. It seems to be a way to screw the electrician. I am I alone in this thinking. It's probably hard to tell in these pics but we have 4-4" that have a 45 kick go to 3' jbox, come out of the side of the box and 90 over to there original route. What would have been an easy straight pull of 500's is now all f-d up. In another case I had to move a ton of 3/4" conduits when a firesprinkler line couldn't be raised an 1-1/8th because the BIM's. Today I heard it cost $50g to have them made. I about freaked out.


 Interesting topic but what is the obstruction that you had to offset around?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Interesting topic but what is the obstruction that you had to offset around?


That's just it, after all the other systems were installed there was no reason for the jbox and offsets.


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## DEelectrician88 (Oct 14, 2011)

So is a Bim just a computer thing or is there an actual obstruction.. I'm slightly confused lol?


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well not to cut in on the OP but we use 3-d auto cad on most of our jobs iam old school we never had this years ago .

And we did the same size jobs as now but its new and now the folks in the office can see how its done .

Its a 3 -d view of the actual plan view of your work you are installing to scale so each trade can see were there at elevation wise and location wise .

It also helps the trades communicate over the inter net via a three way network to talk on the computer at the same time in other states .

Your can print out your plans on a plotter take them out in the field and work you can design anything you need with auto cad 3-d .


This is the real site photo cam.











This is the 3-d auto cad BIM of conduits we plan to run in the underground on this project .This is the actual project above on bim showing our conduit layout of the first layer of 4 layers .

.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

this is the current chart of your odds of dying:

http://www.nsc.org/NSC%20Picture%20Library/News/web_graphics/Injury_Facts_37.pdf


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

piperunner said:


> Well not to cut in on the OP but we use 3-d auto cad on most of our jobs iam old school we never had this years ago .
> 
> And we did the same size jobs as now but its new and now the folks in the office can see how its done .
> 
> ...



Did your company design your own drawings and coordinate with the other trades or one company design them for the job? I see the usefulness of them but it seems like an architect with no electrical field experience drew them up. This could have been a straight run point a to point b. I also see it more practical on a larger scale, 4-4'' ers is nothing. My dad was involved with ford when auto cad was introduced, there are a lot of similarities, he was consulting the engineers because they had no real tool and die experience and that was my dads back round. They designed it and my dad's team made sure it was practical and obeyed most of the laws of physics.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> Did your company design your own drawings and coordinate with the other trades or one company design them for the job? I see the usefulness of them but it seems like an architect with no electrical field experience drew them up. This could have been a straight run point a to point b. I also see it more practical on a larger scale, 4-4'' ers is nothing. My dad was involved with ford when auto cad was introduced, there are a lot of similarities, he was consulting the engineers because they had no real tool and die experience and that was my dads back round. They designed it and my dad's team made sure it was practical and obeyed most of the laws of physics.


Well Bkessler our company yes designs our conduit routes that meaning me on this site.

The same old way as it is normally done when we did this work with a pencil years ago on paper . Today we still drawn out our routing on paper from that we take it to our company cad folks who then put it into a cad program file . We sit down with them and draw electrical swbd panels transformer ect ect room layouts conduits and then we have meetings with other trades to see how we can avoid a issue . 

Its lots of time and work but it does help and most contracts today you must have bim or you not doing the project its in our contract.


The engineers can and contractors can communicate via the internet looking at each trades work on bim and we can adjust elevations and locations in a second online during a online meeting .

Iam not a cad operator i design the project and they draw it . Iam a electrician just like you and i install the work with my crew .


Heres same project and the main feeders stubbing out this is a total of 13 runs in each service of 4 switchboards 4 inch conduit in a poured duct bank of four duct banks 52 - 4 inch conduits . The white squares are the transformer windows these conduits will stub into the windows . The switchboards are the funny looking boxes above the conduits .


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Hopefully the next time around it goes better for me. Our job was bid at 9000 man hours $3 million. I am curious at what point do the drawings become practical. your job seems like a much larger scale.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> Hopefully the next time around it goes better for me. Our job was bid at 9000 man hours $3 million. I am curious at what point do the drawings become practical. your job seems like a much larger scale.



It is not all perfect Bkessler there is lots of time spent on issues waiting for other trades to move or not to move . Approval by art elec engineers lots of time wasted also waiting . Your not alone the cad scale can be off at times you still have to use art drawns to check your layouts .We also use the Trimble on decks to locate points for layout of a high rise or a office high rise now that saves time but its not totally accurate all the time .Most jobs are 20 to 40 mil elect this one is 3 to 6 years of work .


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## White lightning (Oct 28, 2011)

We are dealing with the BIM process for the first time. I see a lot of upside to it. What I really like is the ability to pre-fab all of the single line assemblies. My idea is any runs that we would use a smart bender for, have it pre-fabbed at the shop so all we do in the field is throw the pipe in/up and strap it down. The software gives radius points and measurements so it should be easy.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

White lightning said:


> We are dealing with the BIM process for the first time. I see a lot of upside to it. What I really like is the ability to pre-fab all of the single line assemblies. My idea is any runs that we would use a smart bender for, have it pre-fabbed at the shop so all we do in the field is throw the pipe in/up and strap it down. The software gives radius points and measurements so it should be easy.



Well yes and no the cad program is not accurate at times it depends on your software and who meaning gives you the files to use .

If the files are not accurate your prefab is going to be off.

And trust me on this electrical is always a bitch to layout because were inside of walls were located in every wall or room in the building .

Duct work is easy and mechanical is easy then electrical layouts . 

If theres a bust you still must find it the program meaning auto cad doesnt find mistakes it only see whats installed in the files so you must check with the actual drawns plus use cad to layout floor plans and electrical rooms .

By example if structural doesnt match architectural dimensions your going to have a bad day .


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