# Pool Deck Bonding



## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

I have attached a couple of pictures of a pool deck inspection that I went on this morning. The deck rebar extended beyond and under the forms and will remain in the dirt after the deck is finished. There are 2 bonding clamps attached to the rebar that is outside of the deck. These clamps connect brackets for attachment of a pool cover.

Now here is the high dollar question, is this installation OK?

Chris


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

are those acorn lugs? are they listed for use with rebar? if the lug is listed for that purpose IMO the installation is fine as long as the rest is up to to the NEC


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Is the rebar tie wired together or just floating?


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Let me expand a little bit.

The clamps are being used to interconnect a #8 bare wire that is run to a metal frame for a pool cover or maybe a diving board (Can't tell and the installer was not there). If the rebar rusts away then there is no connection the the metal fitting. Also the rebar is laying in the dirt and not lifted up into the slab.

Chris


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Is the rebar tie wired together or just floating?


tie wired together to form the perimeter equipotential bonding grid with this clamp interconnecting a metal fitting.

Chris


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

raider1 said:


> Let me expand a little bit.
> 
> The clamps are being used to interconnect a #8 bare wire that is run to a metal frame for a pool cover or maybe a diving board (Can't tell and the installer was not there). If the rebar rusts away then there is no connection the the metal fitting. Also the rebar is laying in the dirt and not lifted up into the slab.
> 
> Chris


that is a good concern. how long does it take rebar to rust completly away? what about having the installer coat the end of the rebar and connection in some type of epoxy to prevent corrosion thats what we do on a wet niche light fixture bond lug


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

raider1 said:


> tie wired together to form the perimeter equipotential bonding grid with this clamp interconnecting a metal fitting.
> 
> Chris


so basically the rebar is just there for the equipotential bonding grid and not for support of the concrete itself? if i did the install i would not of used rebar for the bonding grid i would of just used bare #8 and ran it through the slab and connected as needed with burndys


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> so basically the rebar is just there for the equipotential bonding grid and not for support of the concrete itself? if i did the install i would not of used rebar for the bonding grid i would of just used bare #8 and ran it through the slab and connected as needed with burndys


The engineer for the pool specified the use of rebar for the bonding grid.

Chris


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

My understanding is you can use the rebar however the rebar must be installed properly and the clamps must be listed.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

As shown in this pic it should be good.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> My understanding is you can use the rebar *however the rebar must be installed properly* and the clamps must be listed.


That is my point, for the rebar to constitute concrete reinforcing bars they must be totally encased within the concrete slab (This is a building code issue).

The rebar being laid on the dirt and extending out past the concrete slab does not constitute "Structural reinforcing steel" as it is not installed as such.

The #3 bar that you see in the picture will rust away in a few years and the bonding grid will be compromised IMHO.

Chris


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

raider1 said:


> That is my point, for the rebar to constitute concrete reinforcing bars they must be totally encased within the concrete slab (This is a building code issue).
> 
> The rebar being laid on the dirt and extending out past the concrete slab does not constitute "Structural reinforcing steel" as it is not installed as such.
> 
> ...


I am with you....:thumbsup:


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

raider1 said:


> That is my point, for the rebar to constitute concrete reinforcing bars they must be totally encased within the concrete slab (This is a building code issue).
> 
> The rebar being laid on the dirt and extending out past the concrete slab does not constitute "Structural reinforcing steel" as it is not installed as such.
> 
> ...


i also agree. will the engineer allow #8 to be used instead of the rebar


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> i also agree. will the engineer allow #8 to be used instead of the rebar


There are only a few pieces of rebar that are sticking out under the forms. I talked with the pool contractor and they are going to cut the rebar back so that it is 3" away from the edge of the forms and then put spacers under the bar to lift it up and also move the clamps so they are within the slab.

Chris


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## Magnettica_2 (Jun 28, 2011)

So if the installer throws a 60lb bag of concrete mix over the connection to the rebar is that meeting minimum code?


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

Great thread and very informative chaps.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> Is the rebar tie wired together or just floating?


I noticed the same thing...it seems not to be.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Magnettica_2 said:


> So if the installer throws a 60lb bag of concrete mix over the connection to the rebar is that meeting minimum code?


If the connection is totally encased in concrete then it would probably be fine.

Chris


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

raider1 said:


> If the connection is totally encased in concrete then it would probably be fine.
> 
> Chris


Would you pass the inspection if the concrete was already poured and all that was visible is bare #8 going into the deck??


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

B4T said:


> Would you pass the inspection if the concrete was already poured and all that was visible is bare #8 going into the deck??


he's got to see it before the concrete gets poured


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

B4T said:


> Would you pass the inspection if the concrete was already poured and all that was visible is bare #8 going into the deck??


Nope, I must inspect it prior to installation of concrete.



BuzzKill said:


> he's got to see it before the concrete gets poured


Correct.

Chris


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

*Update*

Update on the pool bonding.

Here are some pictures of the pool deck now.

As you can see they lifted up the rebar with pieces of concrete block and cut the rebar back so it was in the pool deck.

Chris


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

that looks better :thumbsup:


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> that looks better :thumbsup:


That is what I thought.

I gave them a green sticker and the OK to pour the slab.

Chris


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## fiddler (Jun 2, 2010)

As long as everything is installed properly leaving the rebar sticking out for the ground connection is acceptable. Just as in a ufer for building steel. The inspector needs to verify that the rebar is installed properly but the electrician can make his ground connection after the slab is poured. Once buried that rebar will still be there 100 years from now.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

fiddler said:


> As long as everything is installed properly leaving the rebar sticking out for the ground connection is acceptable. Just as in a ufer for building steel. The inspector needs to verify that the rebar is installed properly but the electrician can make his ground connection after the slab is poured. *Once buried that rebar will still be there 100 years from now.*


Got anything to back that up?

Also rebar that is not encased in concrete and exposed to the earth is not installed properly in accordance with ACI 318.

Chris


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