# UL listing



## MDShunk

I don't know about my AHJ's, but I won't install it if it doesn't have sombody's NRTL seal on it. I don't care if it's UL, ETL, or whoever, but somebody. I was provided some fixtures one time from IKEA that had paper shades over a bare lamp. No seal of any sort. Not even a country of origin or a manufacturer. No way, brother. :no:


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## JohnJ0906

I had a HO reconverting an old (1908) from 12 appartment back to a single family, and in the main rooms foyer, halls, etc, she wanted the vintage style push button swiches. Most of them are UL, but NOT the 4 ways, or the 3 way dimmers. I wouldn't install them without asking my boss, and he flat-out nixed the idea. We had to use regular toggle swiches in those areas. She threw a party for all the people who worked on the house a month after she moved in, and the non-UL swiches had been installed by someone else .


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## HCECalaska

the AHJ in anchorage wont accept ETL, only CSA and UL, we used to have custom junction boxes built for non standard installations. and never had an inspector question the installation. but not up here, if you put a couple of relays in a box they want to see the UL listing for the assembly.


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## MDShunk

HCECalaska said:


> ... but not up here, if you put a couple of relays in a box they want to see the UL listing for the assembly.


That's pretty hard-nosed. I guess they're within their rights to demand that, but jeeze... Stuff's expensive enough in Alaska, and now you have to get a UL field rep to sticker your relays you put in a JIC enclosure. They should figure out a system for electrical contractors like they have for electric sign builders. A periodic inspection by UL people, and other than that, you put the UL sticker on all your stuff all year.


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## brian john

Some of this is bunk, if we as trained electricians cannot make some basic decisions that have no real impact on the installation, what good are we. What I can't pick out a 6X6X6 JB for a EPO ice cube relay. But I can assemble and energize a 4000 amp gear no logic..

I know this will stir up a ANGST among some but changing lugs in a panel, if the CONTACT surface area is the same and I bother to measure contact resistance (with a DLRO/micro ohm-meter), I am not qualified to make this simple change.

COMMON SENSE can go a long and stupidity can be rampant.


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## raider1

HCECalaska said:


> the AHJ in anchorage wont accept ETL, only CSA and UL, we used to have custom junction boxes built for non standard installations. and never had an inspector question the installation. but not up here, if you put a couple of relays in a box they want to see the UL listing for the assembly.


What year of the NEC is enforced in your area? There is a new Article in the 2005 NEC titled "Industrial Control Panels". The reason for the addition of this Article was the problem of UL listings for the whole assembly. Now you can assemble your own control panel in accordance with this Article.

Chris


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## Hillbilly

Only time I've ever seen an Inspector here look for a UL listing,is One guy in particular looks for the UL stamp on the ground rods in Residential jobs,just to make sure they weren't cut off.


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## MDShunk

Hillbilly said:


> Only time I've ever seen an Inspector here look for a UL listing,is One guy in particular looks for the UL stamp on the ground rods in Residential jobs,just to make sure they weren't cut off.


The ground rods I buy don't even have a UL stamp on each rod. The whole bundle of 10 has a cardboard tag with a UL mark.


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## Hillbilly

MD,do you use galvanized,or copper coated Rods?


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## MDShunk

Hillbilly said:


> MD,do you use galvanized,or copper coated Rods?


Since ground rods are a wasted effort, in my opinion, I use the cheapest thinnest galvanized rods I can get my hands on.


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## Hillbilly

MDShunk said:


> Since ground rods are a wasted effort, in my opinion, I use the cheapest thinnest galvanized rods I can get my hands on.


Interesting Opinion. Care to elaborate?


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## MDShunk

Hillbilly said:


> Interesting Opinion. Care to elaborate?


They drain most of a lightning strike, as their main purpose. Nobody's getting 25 ohms, for most installs. At the voltages that they'll be pressed into service at, I don't think that copper clad or galvanized is going to make much of a difference. Either metal work. All your crap in your house will still get fried, but either metal material will drain enough of the strike to keep your house from burning down. That's my opinion, based on nothing but my generalized skepticism and bad attitude.


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## brian john

> nothing but my generalized skepticism and bad attitude.


I HATE THIS TERM BUT FOTGLMAO (falling on the ground laughing my tail off)


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## Djea3

HCECalaska said:


> the AHJ in anchorage wont accept ETL, only CSA and UL,


I know, old thread. However, Intertek does in fact have certified evaluation of any product they list. It is the same process and certification that UL or any other listing service performs. Intertek would be disqualified to list product if they did not follow the rules themselves. UL and Intertek and all of them have certifications to renew and processes to follow. 
My step Sister sells (not sure for which company) is/was project manager over certification processes. I will tell you that if the AHJ was refusing to accept Intertek's stamp and was found out, he would probably lose his home and all the cash he had or will ever have. This is a SERIOUS violation of his position and authority. I would have asked him when Intertek lost its right to certify and to prove it.

Now. with regard to certification, the manufacturer/designer gets to CHOOSE most of the certification requirements that they want. As long as they choose the minimum for a given purpose and conditions they believe are acceptable under use, then that is what is tested. Almost no company asks for anything but the minimum. Example might be human interface, where only the installer will touch a surface and that installer is a tradesman, there may be no requirement to debur and make handling safe from cutting skin. Likewise there may be no requirement for child safety if it is say a hanging light fixture, if the kid is up there he he should not have been able to be. This is why we see statements that lets say a light fixture states "not for wall mount".

Most of the certification process are things like: metallic fixture, must have ground connected at less than X ohms. Plastic fixture- no ground required. The process starts at $5 to 10K or something like that. Changes to production methods, production plants, suppliers, and even production shutdowns for longer than XX days can require recertification (usually severely reduced costs). Remember that assemblies of UL listed parts are not UL listed as an assembly-necessarily. If they are assembled then they must be assembled using the same requirements of an assembly for certification. Good luck knowing that! I often wonder about lighting fixtures, too many have a LOT of parts that require assembly, including sometimes multiple grounds without blade or ring connectors.


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