# What is the worst violation you've ever seen?



## Chris1971

what's the worst code violation you've ever seen?

I would say when copper plumbing pipe was used in place of cartridge fuses.:no::no::no:


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## erics37

A corduroy dress.


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## Chris1971

erics37 said:


> A corduroy dress.



On your boyfriend?:laughing:


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## 480sparky

_Personally_ seen?

This abortion of a service entrance:








​


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## erics37

Chris1971 said:


> On your boyfriend?:laughing:


On yours :laughing:


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## Chris1971

480sparky said:


> _Personally_ seen?
> 
> This abortion of a service entrance:
> 
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> 
> ​


On a farm?


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## 480sparky

Chris1971 said:


> On a farm?



No. I PhotoShopped out all the skyscrapers in the background. :jester:


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## Chris1971

Was it a service call or did you replace that service with a new?


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## 480sparky

Chris1971 said:


> Was it a service call or did you replace that service with a new?



I gave them a price to redo it, but I never heard back. It's so far out in the sticks, I've never been back by there to see if anything ever got done.


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## JohnR

Don't have a pic, but it was a piece of switchgear 13.8kv that was wide open, broken breakers all over it, feeding another switchgear that was 208v 3000A, also wide open.. Had to walk down this narrow path past the HV to get to the breakers on the LV breakers. Only good thing about the situation was the locked gate. 
The resident handyman/electrician wannabe refused to go into the area when it was damp out. They wanted us to do an IR scan of the whole thing. 

My boss at the time said fix the HV and then we will talk.


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## erics37

I don't know anything about plumbing code but this clusterf**k has to violate something:


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## Jlarson

erics37 said:


> I don't know anything about plumbing code but this clusterf**k has to violate something:


Damn that's so wrong.... they got pvc glue all over tisk, tisk, tisk :no: :laughing:


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## Bkessler

Found this baby at a retired shop teacher's house.


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## wcord

I don't have any pictures but here are some of the things I have found

Basement receptacles wired with telephone station wire (4 c #24) and the installer twisted the wires into pairs - guess maybe a violation of parallel conductor size

Switch wired with outside telephone service drop cable

3 way wired by taping up the ground and using it as a traveler
I find this quite often- hate self wires and handyman specials- they know enough to kill somebody


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## Greg

My boss' house, he is the owner of the company and his favorite line is, "It is what it is." It drives me insane but it is his house and I do what I'm told after politely voicing my concerns.


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## Rudeboy

The worst violation is saying "It is what it is."


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## Speedy Petey




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## Chris1971

Speedy Petey said:


>



That would be one of the worse and most dangerous.


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## fraydo

Chris1971 said:


> what's the worst code violation you've ever seen?
> 
> I would say when copper plumbing pipe was used in place of cartridge fuses.:no::no::no:


Here's your picture.......


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## kevmanTA

A basement in a 5 year old house wired with 16 gauge cab tire.. Quoted them 4 grand to redo it, I don't think he did..


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## Shockdoc

AC guys interpitation of an outdoor panel


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## wcord

Shockdoc said:


> AC guys interpitation of an outdoor panel


at least he used outdoor tywraps lol


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## Chris1971

fraydo said:


> Here's your picture.......


Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.:laughing::laughing:


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## fraydo

Chris1971 said:


> Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.:laughing::laughing:


 
Those came from a church that had one installed for each of their 5 air handlers. In the second pic the wire is burned at the terminal.


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## Chris1971

Wonder what the ampacity of the copper plumbing pipe woul be?


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## 480sparky

Here's a classic:

































:whistling2:



.​


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## oliquir

wcord said:


> I don't have any pictures but here are some of the things I have found
> 
> Basement receptacles wired with telephone station wire (4 c #24) and the installer twisted the wires into pairs - guess maybe a violation of parallel conductor size


i would have love to see what would happen if they plugged portable heater on those receptacles


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## McClary’s Electrical

oliquir said:


> i would have love to see what would happen if they plugged portable heater on those receptacles


 
Mock it up and try it. Put it on you tube


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## B4T

Ken.. since you like posting my pictures without asking me, why are they a violation? :blink::blink:

The covers are at grade level and accessible to anyone with a brain and a pair of working eyes..

You still don't get it.. there is nothing wrong with my installation..

I can easily add to the system I have installed and it is the best it can be..


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## Bkessler

B4T said:


> Ken.. since you like posting my pictures without asking me, why are they a violation? :blink::blink:
> 
> The covers are at grade level and accessible to anyone with a brain and a pair of working eyes..
> 
> You still don't get it.. there is nothing wrong with my installation..
> 
> I can easily add to the system I have installed and it is the best it can be..


Ken must have thought he read, "what is the ugliest job you've ever seen."


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## B4T

Bkessler said:


> Ken must have thought he read, "what is the ugliest job you've ever seen."


I don't think that is funny.. maybe try again


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## Bkessler

B4T said:


> I don't think that is funny.. maybe try again


Ken must have thought he read, "what is the sadist looking job you've ever seen."


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## 480sparky

B4T said:


> Ken.. since you like posting my pictures without asking me, why are they a violation? :blink::blink:.............


This was all hashed out and settled months ago.


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## B4T

480sparky said:


> This was all hashed out and settled months ago.


Your biggest gripe was the "accessible" part.. are you blind?


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## 480sparky

B4T said:


> Your biggest gripe was the "accessible" part.. are you blind?



I would have to be when I need a map to find the box.

Care to point out where the 'accessible' boxes are in this yard?:


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## B4T

480sparky said:


> I would have to be when I need a map to find the box.
> 
> Care to point out where the 'accessible' boxes are in this yard?:


OK.. so next time I will use a bunch of these and you will need a shovel to find the splices..

I will tell the owner I need to dig up his front lawn because he wants receptacles by the trees for LED lights,,

YES.. that is a much better job.. :no:


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## BBQ

B4T said:


> You still don't get it.. there is nothing wrong with my installation..


No, YOU still don't get it just man up and admit is a violation and a hack job.


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## B4T

How am I suppose to know where the boxes are.. :blink:

You are not making sense here.. :no:


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## B4T

BBQ said:


> No, YOU still don't get it just man up and admit is a violation and a hack job.


GFU...:thumbsup:


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## Bkessler

B4T said:


> GFU...:thumbsup:


What does GFU mean?


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## BBQ

B4T said:


> OK.. so next time I will use a bunch of these and you will need a shovel to find the splices..
> 
> I will tell the owner I need to dig up his front lawn because he wants receptacles by the trees for LED lights,,
> 
> YES.. that is a much better job.. :no:



No it would not be a 'better' job but it would be professional and meet code.

But why not use PVC conduit as you have been but with proper hand-holes located in areas that a hand-hole cover at or above grade will not be too ugly? 

Simple, neat, legal and repairable.


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## BBQ

B4T said:


> GFU...:thumbsup:



:laughing:


You get mad to easily and fly off the handle. :laughing:






Bkessler said:


> What does GFU mean?



GFU


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## 480sparky

B4T said:


> OK.. so next time I will use a bunch of these and you will need a shovel to find the splices..
> 
> I will tell the owner I need to dig up his front lawn because he wants receptacles by the trees for LED lights,,
> 
> YES.. that is a much better job.. :no:



Oh, well. Such is life.

*90.1 (B) Adequacy.* This Code contains provisions that are considered
necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and
proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially
free from hazard *but not necessarily efficient, convenient,
or adequate for good service or future expansion of
electrical use.*


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## wishmaster68

Stop picking on him. I mean it:laughing:


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## guest

Ok, to stop the bickering between 480 and B4T (you guys need to get a room or something...:laughing::laughing: )




wcord said:


> Basement receptacles wired with telephone station wire (4 c #24) and the installer twisted the wires into pairs - guess maybe a violation of parallel conductor size





oliquir said:


> i would have love to see what would happen if they plugged portable heater on those receptacles





mcclary's electrical said:


> Mock it up and try it. Put it on you tube


No need to go to all that effort, just check out this thread: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f13/spot-violations-garage-fire-aftermath-20111/

and look at the pics. 

BTW the situation in that thread is my vote for worst violation I have seen.


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## HARRY304E

480sparky said:


> Oh, well. Such is life.
> 
> *90.1 (B) Adequacy.* This Code contains provisions that are considered
> necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and
> proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially
> free from hazard *but not necessarily efficient, convenient,*
> *or adequate for good service or future expansion of*
> *electrical use.*


Artical 90 does not count. . Thats what the experts on MH say at least..:blink:


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## TOOL_5150

HARRY304E said:


> Artical 90 does not count. . Thats what the experts on MH say at least..:blink:


If that is true, then why does it exist?

~Matt


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## HARRY304E

TOOL_5150 said:


> If that is true, then why does it exist?
> 
> ~Matt


 IDK thats what they said to destroy my case over there ask them...:no:


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## 480sparky

HARRY304E said:


> Artical 90 does not count. . Thats what the experts on MH say at least..:blink:



Then I guess I'll ignore all the Tables & Annexes as well.


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## drsparky

480sparky said:


> Then I guess I'll ignore all the Tables & Annexes as well.


Keep the tables, I like to eat.


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## Malaking_TT

The worst code violation I've ever seen, or at least one of the funniest was in the Philippines in my hotel room. There was a 250 volt receptacle in the shower to plug in a cord and plug connected insta-hot for the shower's hot water.


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## Big John

wcord said:


> ...Basement receptacles wired with telephone station wire (4 c #24) and the installer twisted the wires into pairs....


 I think the worst one I've ever seen was years ago when I found a receptacle an engineer had installed in an IT room. He used parallel Cat-5s to feed it and he had all the math explaining why it was safe to do it that way, the insulation value of Cat-5, the ampacity of the parallel conductors.

During the course of arguing with him about how dangerous it actually was he ends up mentioning he was gonna make it IG by driving a ground rod for it, and he had equations to back that up, too.  :no:

-John


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## racerjim0

^^^So 24 x 2 isn't 12:thumbup::thumbup:


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## guest

racerjim0 said:


> ^^^So 24 x 2 isn't 12:thumbup::thumbup:


Actually with eight conductors in each CAT5E it would be 24 x 4 for each CAT5E cable he used. What a doofus.  (The engineer, not you racerjim0)


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## Rockyd

HARRY304E said:


> Artical 90 does not count. . Thats what the experts on MH say at least..:blink:


I'd like to fight that battle Harry. If it didn't matter, it wouldn't be in the code book!!!:no:


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## noor

thats some messed up stuff.... i have seen some stupid stuff too


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## McClary’s Electrical

noor said:


> thats some messed up stuff.... i have seen some stupid stuff too


 

thanks..........


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## BBQ

HARRY304E said:


> Artical 90 does not count. . Thats what the experts on MH say at least..:blink:


Harry get your facts straight. :laughing:

I don't believe anyone at MH has said Article 90 'does not count'. There are many that believe you cannot, or should not see a failure notice with any section from the introduction to the code.


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## Speedskater

Eight 24AWG conductors equals one 15AWG conductor.


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## Josue

480sparky said:


> No. I PhotoShopped out all the skyscrapers in the background. :jester:


Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can't use that word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

remember


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## Big John

Speedskater said:


> Eight 24AWG conductors equals one 15AWG conductor.


 Yeah, that was similar to how this guy figured it, too. I can't remember how many Cat-5's there were, and I think it was on a 20A breaker.

When he started talking about the IG I really lost it. He had this whole plan to test the thing by hooking a transformer up to it and pumping current through the earth to see if it tripped the breaker.  For all the work he put into doing it wrong, well, you know....

-John


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## InspectorCluseau

GFCI duplex outlets on a dock at a lake. Wiring was in PVC back to the panel. The ground wire was black and not green. Someone connected it to a 20 amp breaker in the supply panel ... this of course energized the boxes on the dock resulting in a fatal accident.


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## Josue

InspectorCluseau said:


> GFCI duplex outlets on a dock at a lake. Wiring was in PVC back to the panel. The ground wire was black and not green. Someone connected it to a 20 amp breaker in the supply panel ... this of course energized the boxes on the dock resulting in a fatal accident.


Apparently the apprentice got the ground wire in wrong color and the electrician thought it was phase, so he connected it to the breaker. WOW. 

That was some big mistake.


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## Electric_Light

Retail store outdoor signage hooked up in location exposed to rain at chest height along the wall next to sidewalk using Christmas tree hookup extension cords. Those cheesy green China made two pronged plastic ones.


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## InspectorCluseau

*Not an apprentice*



Josue said:


> Apparently the apprentice got the ground wire in wrong color and the electrician thought it was phase, so he connected it to the breaker. WOW.
> 
> That was some big mistake.


Actually a qualified electrician wired the dock but did not finish. He failed to reutnr to mark the ground wire with green tape and left the condutor just hanging in the panel. A maintenance man (not qualified to do anything exactly) made the connection. I think the lawyers are still arguing about it.


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## InspectorCluseau

*Ungrounded pickup truck*

A used car dealer had a pickup truck parked near the street. In the bed was an illuminated sigh with fluorescent lights. The sign was plugged into an extension cord. The ground pin was of course cut off. The extension cord was plugged into an outlet on a light pole some distance away. The outlet on the pole was reverse wired (hot to neutral, neutral to hot). A fault in the sign allowed connection of the "neutral" conductor to the truck bed and because of the crossed connection that made the pickup body hot. 

A salesman tried to climb into the truck bed to find out why the sign quit. Standing with one foot on the bumper and the other in a puddle of water he received a serious shock. His injurfies left him with permanent damage to his arm.


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## Master E

InspectorCluseau said:


> Actually a qualified electrician wired the dock but did not finish. He failed to reutnr to mark the ground wire with green tape and left the condutor just hanging in the panel. A maintenance man (not qualified to do anything exactly) made the connection. I think the lawyers are still arguing about it.


So the qualified electrician didn't tape the bare or green wire green in the panel??


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## guest

mxslick said:


> No need to go to all that effort, just check out this thread: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f13/spot-violations-garage-fire-aftermath-20111/
> 
> and look at the pics.
> 
> BTW the situation in that thread is my vote for worst violation I have seen.


Well now I have to change my vote. Go to the thread I linked above to see an update that shows that you really can't fix stupid.


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## cguillas

What you're seeing here: 1/2" EMT supported by chain. Actually, it's supported by ductwork. The chain is just looped over for effect.


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## guest

cguillas said:


> What you're seeing here: 1/2" EMT supported by chain. Actually, it's supported by ductwork. The chain is just looped over for effect.



If that's the worst you've seen you aren't looking too hard. :laughing:


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## cguillas

mxslick said:


> If that's the worst you've seen you aren't looking too hard. :laughing:


Oh, haha, no, I just needed to delete the photo from my phone and I figured I'd post it to the thread.


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## Chris1971

erics37 said:


> A corduroy dress.



That you were wearing.:no:


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## TOOL_5150

BBQ said:


> Harry get your facts straight. :laughing:
> 
> I don't believe anyone at MH has said Article 90 'does not count'. There are many that believe you cannot, or should not see a failure notice with any section from the introduction to the code.


But an AHJ can enforce art 90 if they desire to do so, correct?

~Matt


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## btharmy

I was in the basement of a house and saw an original and scary way to support cable. It was old cloth-covered "romex", 2 conductor (no ground), supported by roofing nails, thru the outer jacket, between the conductors, into the bottom of the floor joists. This was not just a cable that had been added, it was every cable in the place. I can only imagine they did the same inside all of the walls behind the plaster and lath.


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## Chris1971

Saw this the other day in the basement of a home. Homeowner removed 1/2" flex and ran individual conductors through the floor joists to a metal j-box. Of course, no ground.


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## vickieB

480sparky said:


> Here's a classic:
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> :whistling2:
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> .​


There is nothing supporting your boxes...? Can not support pvc on its own. read the code mass....master electrician says yours is wrong. and he hopes u have a good shovel!


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## K2500

vickieB said:


> There is nothing supporting your boxes...? Can not support pvc on its own. read the code mass....master electrician says yours is wrong. and he hopes u have a good shovel!


The earth makes a fine support. 
Also, I believe he has the pirate package. That is, he has both a shovel and a map. Eye patch optional.


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## retiredsparktech

btharmy said:


> I was in the basement of a house and saw an original and scary way to support cable. It was old cloth-covered "romex", 2 conductor (no ground), supported by roofing nails, thru the outer jacket, between the conductors, into the bottom of the floor joists. This was not just a cable that had been added, it was every cable in the place. I can only imagine they did the same inside all of the walls behind the plaster and lath.


 I saw a lot of zip cord wiring in the area where I grew up. They would use upholstery tacks thru the center rib to secure the cord to the baseboards and around the door casings.


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## bill39

Of all that I've seen over the years, two stand out dramatically:

1: A 2" rigid conduit for the telephone feed had a grounding bushing w/lug on it and a lady telephone installer who needed to hook up a ground wire took a 1-1/2" self-drilling screw and put it right into the conduit instead of using the ground lug on the bushing. I watched the whole thing and was just speechless. Luckily the conduit only had a few cables in it......but still!!!

2. Inside of a computer cabinet, a small ice-cube relay had wires soldered to each pin and was hanging amidst the bundles of CAT-5 cables. Soldered wires were for some kind of UPS alarm. Shoulda known to use a relay base and mount it inside of the cabinet. The only way I knew the relay was there was because we were pulling in some more CAT-5 cables and had to push 'em out of the way.


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## erics37

Chris1971 said:


> That you were wearing.:no:


Hey I can't deny their comfort and convenience!


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## backstay

This was to a car hoist. They used the bare ground in the romex as a hot(because they didn't have enough conductors). The locknut came loose and slid down until it contacted the wire. Then I opened the box and BOOOM!

It's fixed now.


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## Electric_Light

backstay said:


> This was to a car hoist. They used the bare ground in the romex as a hot(because they didn't have enough conductors). The locknut came loose and slid down until it contacted the wire. Then I opened the box and BOOOM!
> 
> It's fixed now.


What idiot would do that? Seeing that ovens and dryers use neutral as the chassis ground, I've thought about using black as switched hot, white as dimmed hot and bare as neutral on Lutron 3-wire hookup, which I know is a violation but I would not even think about using bare for hot :laughing:


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## backstay

I like to show these when I find them. Not dangerous, but not code.


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## Magnettica

480sparky said:


> No. I PhotoShopped out all the skyscrapers in the background. :jester:


The original maybe?


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## backstay

Here is another one of those, what were they thinking!


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## McClary’s Electrical

backstay said:


> Here is another one of those, what were they thinking!


 

Looks like a phase converter to me. Right in the working space of the panel. Although it's nice to get them close, but not that close


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## Wirenuting

Here are two new 480 Freq drives for a cooling tower. They are NEMA 3R enclosures but still open for the key pads. 
You have to open the gate inward and have a 22" working space.


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## backstay

mcclary's electrical said:


> Looks like a phase converter to me. Right in the working space of the panel. Although it's nice to get them close, but not that close


If they would have centered it on the panel, then I could straddle the converter. They could have gone to the right or better yet built an overhead rack. The ceiling is 17 ft up.


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## Old man

In Equador, where the local barber slung a wire across the bare overhead unfused hot government power supply to earn a living cutting hair on the street.


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## BELCO

I saw a cleaners once that had that had everything from #3 to #12 twisted together and terminated into 3 400 amp fuses in a disconnect. I wish I'd taken pictures of it.


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## rnr electric

Had a mill electrician wire his own house years ago, said none of his 3 ways worked right.went to look at it for him. he had all travellers for the 3 way with old 2 pair 22 awg phone wire. his explanation was that travellers did not carry any load, so why cant i use this?


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## rnr electric

if i can learn to post pictures, i have just finished a 1970 built condo,(84 units). that have had 40 or so years of handyman electrical agression taken out on every fu%$#@ unit. im talkin bare conductors through metal studs,rev polarity,service conductors not in pipe, all run in emt in slab 150ft from the gulf of mexico crazy stuff.. have over 2000 pics of violations that i had to document.


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## frenchelectrican

rnr electric said:


> if i can learn to post pictures, i have just finished a 1970 built condo,(84 units). that have had 40 or so years of handyman electrical agression taken out on every fu%$#@ unit. im talkin bare conductors through metal studs,rev polarity,service conductors not in pipe, all run in emt in slab 150ft from the gulf of mexico crazy stuff.. have over 2000 pics of violations that i had to document.


 
That gotta be a big repair project to do get it right.

Merci,
Marc


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## macmikeman

Erics37's corduroy dress is still the best answer given in this thread...


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## retiredsparktech

mcclary's electrical said:


> Looks like a phase converter to me. Right in the working space of the panel. Although it's nice to get them close, but not that close


 Never was a big fan of those rotary phase convertors. The motors that they drive sound sick to me. Too much unbalance on the three phase legs. It can't be that good for the motor.


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## Wirenuting

Stairs just built in front of a starter. 
Told em not to build them into this basement, but they plan to use this electrical room for popcorn & toilet paper storage. 
Not the worst violation around here, just the newest.


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## guest

Movie theatre? 

Those stairs are MAJOR hackity-hack-hack....my nephew built a better looking set when he was 8.


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## Wirenuting

mxslick said:


> Movie theatre?
> 
> Those stairs are MAJOR hackity-hack-hack....my nephew built a better looking set when he was 8.


Ya a movie theatre and they go down to an old sub-basement were we had our old 4160 transformers & ammonia chiller. 
They want to use it for storage now. 
They were put in by our cabinet maker, the carpenter boss was screwing with him because he's retiring soon. Old man jack hasn't built stairs in 30 years.


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## backstay

Ok, I want to throw the disco with my left hand while looking away. I will have to lay on the stairs on my side, can I fit my arm around the vertical 2x4...Just think, crowded theater, fire, people trampled and dying.:no:


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## Wirenuting

backstay said:


> Ok, I want to throw the disco with my left hand while looking away. I will have to lay on the stairs on my side, can I fit my arm around the vertical 2x4...Just think, crowded theater, fire, people trampled and dying.:no:


Or stand on the stairs and reach down to throw it. Then you can run up the stairs before the fire gets you. LoL

Jack told me 2 weeks ago he was putting them in. He whispered it at the time clock and wanted me to hit it as a safety violation. 
He saved the good wood until after that starter gets moved. 
The bosses flipped when I tossed the hit sheet on their desk yesterday. They are fighting over who's going to give the man hours for repair.


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## Wirenuting

This is how you keep a motor o/l from tripping. 
Only found it because I opened the bucket to hook a tracer up to find the breaker feeding the MCC today.


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## MF Dagger

I unfortunately don't have pictures but the worst violation I ever saw was a standard 100 amp panel that had a main breaker go bad apparently. Rather than buying the replacement part number they bought a 100 amp stab on breaker (different brand than panel), bent the bus bars into an approximate enough shape to plug the breaker on and then called it good. The cover wouldn't fit on very good so they wrapped a piece of tie wire around the panel and door. It was stellar.


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## BELCO

I also saw once a #10 that was feeding some parking lot lights (among other things). In the panel it was wire nutted to two other #10s, ea going to separate 30a single pole breakers. Obviously each breaker was on the same phase.


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## gizmo21187

Help a friend with his new old house. So i told him let's replace all light switches, fixturs, outlets and brakers if need be. 

Well almost all the oulets were either tosted or miss wired. One side of the house had no ground, was cut all the way not even a nub. Used nutral for ground , didn't want to, no slack to pull more . All the light fixturs had no wire nuts on any thing, just twist and TAPE. 

Found a 220/240 braker beeing half used, and a single braker to complete the other half. Which led to the oulet for the frig. Hot with one braker and nutral with the other braker. Yes a hot to each side for a 110/120 and of course no ground. From that outlet it split to a light socket out side, which had nice burn marks, and to a hole on the other side out side hanging cut LIVE NOT EVEN TAPE. Which. I asume was for a dryer since the cable was for a 220/240. But the cable from the breakers was a 16/2 yes 240 on a 16/2.

And the light switch to the master bedroom is in the kitchen. And an outlet in side the air filter panel. Which had a two wire extention to a oven vent and the stove.

And the kicker is one 20a breaker had with three wires going to four rooms and the bath. Total of six lights and ten outlets

All in all a funn weekend.
Still wonder how the house never burnd down.


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## BELCO

gizmo21187 said:


> Still wonder how the house never burnd down.


There's always tomorrow. Guess who's gonna be implicated now if it does.
My way of thinking is if they don't want it fixed right I'm not touching it.


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## Wirenuting

gizmo21187 said:


> Help a friend with his new old house.
> 
> Well almost all the oulets were either tosted or miss wired. One side of the house had no ground, was cut all the way not even a nub. Used nutral for ground , didn't want to, no slack to pull more .
> 
> Still wonder how the house never burnd down.


I hope the friend enjoys your bootleg ground on the receptacles. 
And remembers you helping him.


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## user4818

Nothing new under the sun here, but I'm still amazed when I see lamp cord, bell wire, vacuum cleaner cord, and other types of cord used for permanent wiring.


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## MDShunk

Peter D said:


> Nothing new under the sun here, but I'm still amazed when I see lamp cord, bell wire, vacuum cleaner cord, and other types of cord used for permanent wiring.


It's not too unusual to see entire garages and outbuildings wired completely in scrap cord.


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## user4818

MDShunk said:


> It's not too unusual to see entire garages and outbuildings wired completely in scrap cord.



Or scrap pieces of romex spliced together with wirenuts and tape.


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## Big John

Wirenuting said:


> I hope the friend enjoys your bootleg ground on the receptacles....


 Ayuh, there were a couple easy ways to do that job right, and that ain't one of 'em. :no:

-John


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## oliquir

gizmo21187 said:


> And the kicker is one 20a breaker had with three wires going to four rooms and the bath. Total of six lights and ten outlets


 i have seen that often, it is not a good practice but not a dangerous violation if wiring is all made of 12awg


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## Jlarson

MDShunk said:


> It's not too unusual to see entire garages and outbuildings wired completely in scrap cord.


I may or may not have an outbuilding wired with leftover TC cable


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## guest

gizmo21187 said:


> Help a friend with his new old house. So i told him let's replace all light switches, fixturs, outlets and brakers if need be.
> 
> Well almost all the oulets were either tosted or miss wired. One side of the house had no ground, was cut all the way not even a nub._* Used nutral for ground , didn't want to, no slack to pull more .*_ All the light fixturs had no wire nuts on any thing, just twist and TAPE.
> 
> Found a 220/240 braker beeing half used, and a single braker to complete the other half. Which led to the oulet for the frig. Hot with one braker and nutral with the other braker. Yes a hot to each side for a 110/120 and of course no ground. From that outlet it split to a light socket out side, which had nice burn marks, and to a hole on the other side out side hanging cut LIVE NOT EVEN TAPE. Which. I asume was for a dryer since the cable was for a 220/240. But the cable from the breakers was a 16/2 yes 240 on a 16/2.
> 
> And the light switch to the master bedroom is in the kitchen. And an outlet in side the air filter panel. Which had a two wire extention to a oven vent and the stove.
> 
> And the kicker is one 20a breaker had with three wires going to four rooms and the bath. Total of six lights and ten outlets
> 
> All in all a funn weekend.
> Still wonder how the house never burnd down.


Good job..NOT!! When your friend gets knocked on his ass from your VERY dangerous and stupid solution I hope the next thing that gets knocked out is you sir. 

A professional electrician would NEVER make a bad situation WORSE with such a stunt.


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## gizmo21187

mxslick said:


> Good job..NOT!! When your friend gets knocked on his ass from your VERY dangerous and stupid solution I hope the next thing that gets knocked out is you sir.
> 
> A professional electrician would NEVER make a bad situation WORSE with such a stunt.


If ur talking about my ground, all those outlets were on a load bearing cender block wall with no counduit. Which mean when thay filled the wall with cement the romex is locked. So to replace the run i would have to knock down the wall. If i run surface mount thay have small kids and would get hurt on the boxes. And as i said the i did not like what i did either but here in the states nutal and ground are on the same buss. So tell me why he would end up on his ass. And pleas do explan, don't be rude and say its wrong.


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## gizmo21187

oliquir said:


> i have seen that often, it is not a good practice but not a dangerous violation if wiring is all made of 12awg


Added breakers so that each one hade a single run.


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## backstay

Your spelling is appalling!


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## gizmo21187

I know eh
Mi fone no spellly check


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## kevmanTA

It was in a stamping plant, 600A splitter, there was a few 30A disco's with 14 wire which is bad, but not horrible... What the scary part is, there was a 30A unfused disco feeding a machine on the other side of the shop..
Ran like that for 30+ years, place shut down and we were contracted in to clean it out...

That, and a 400A FPE disco was stuck in the on position....


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## McClary’s Electrical

We were called in an old house that the owner had died. A gc friend of mine bought it, and was renovating it, told me to come look at what he found. Upstairs, in one room, there was a pair of #8's hanging out the wall. They were split bolted to every single 240 volt circuit right there in mid air. Wh, well pump, stove, furnace, baseboard heat, all under one bug. 

Here's the kicker, the 2 number 8's were not going to the panel. The old owner must have been an electrician and came up with this plan. Inside the weatherhead, he bugged the #8's so you could not see them. He ran them halfway down the mast, and then straight out the back of the conduit and into the wall.. he then bugged on all the the 240 volt loads and ran them for free for twenty years


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## cguillas

There's an easy and cheap way to fix that which is to code and won't kill anybody, at least here in Canada. Install a GFI on the first outlet on the chain and don't attach the ground lug to anything. Apply the included "No Equipment Ground" sticker to the fed receptacles and you're good. If you can't access the box, add a pass-through GFI in a new box beside the panel. Using a neutral as ground is #^{# scary. 

CEC 2007 26-700 (8) a-c


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## kevmanTA

cguillas said:


> There's an easy and cheap way to fix that which is to code and won't kill anybody, at least here in Canada. Install a GFI on the first outlet on the chain and don't attach the ground lug to anything. Apply the included "No Equipment Ground" sticker to the fed receptacles and you're good. If you can't access the box, add a pass-through GFI in a new box beside the panel. Using a neutral as ground is #^{# scary.
> 
> CEC 2007 26-700 (8) a-c


Did a house for my future father in law, every recept/switch had the solder joints in the back, ended up putting the GFI's right at the panel...


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## Rufeo

A building in philly, the mdp had a 100 amp breaker with 10 wire hooked up to it. The best part? The wire was coiled at the bottom of the gear live, arcing against the metal floor.


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## HARRY304E

Rufeo said:


> A building in philly, the mdp had a 100 amp breaker with 10 wire hooked up to it. The best part? The wire was coiled at the bottom of the gear live, arcing against the metal floor.


Whoops must have been a friday when they coiled up the wire..:laughing:


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## gizmo21187

mcclary's electrical said:


> he then bugged on all the the 240 volt loads and ran them for free for twenty years


Nice! Old houses are awsomer!


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## guest

gizmo21187 said:


> If ur talking about my ground, all those outlets were on a load bearing cender block wall with no counduit. Which mean when thay filled the wall with cement the romex is locked. So to replace the run i would have to knock down the wall. If i run surface mount thay have small kids and would get hurt on the boxes. And as i said the i did not like what i did either but here in the states nutal and ground are on the same buss. So tell me why he would end up on his ass. And pleas do explan, don't be rude and say its wrong.


Rude or not I don't care, it is still wrong and *a major Code violation*, any electrician past the first month of training should know that. The safety issue is why the Code allows the neutral/ground bond ONLY in one location. (You do know you never bond neutrals and grounds at a subpanel, right? )

In the interest of being fair to you though, the very simple reason you don't do it is because the ground (i.e. GROUNDING CONDUCTOR) is NOT intended as a return path for normal operation, and the neutral is. Since an electrical current will seek ALL available paths back to it's source (and since residential services have a GROUNDED conductor any path through ground, including earth, water, cement, people, etc. and including the GROUNDING conductor) you now have the possibility of current flow to all the exposed metal when a grounded appliance is plugged in. The degree of current and resulting shock will depend on the resistance of the person and objects involved and will divide up according to Ohm's Law.

That is why is is also possible to measure some voltage at distant points between neutral and ground even on a properly wired system. 

You made a bad situation worse, really. The best bet would have been to leave them ungrounded. 

There are others on here who can chime in with the Code references (I am at a film job and don't have my Code book handy) and perhaps a better explanation of the theory involved.


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## Big John

gizmo21187 said:


> ...And as i said the i did not like what i did either but here in the states neutral and ground are on the same bus. So tell me why he would end up on his ass....


 When you bond the neutral to ground, you're putting voltage on any metallic parts of the equipment that gets plugged in. It may be a very small voltage, but I've seen several cases where it was enough to cause a noticeable shock: 

Two where in basements where people were getting shocked when they touched equipment and lights while barefoot on the concrete. 

One was in a kitchen were a woman got a pretty good jolt when she was washing dishes, had one wet hand on the metal sink and the other wet hand touched a metal appliance.

It isn't always dangerous, but it obviously can be, and in the 2005 NEC it violates 250.142(B). 

Check out 406.3(D) for easy solutions for non-grounded receptacle replacement.

-John


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## BELCO

And if for some reason the neutral gets loose in the panel, and it happens, you really have a hazard.


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## lefleuron

A switch gear lever chained in the UP. They told me one of the knives doesn't come down, so instead of fixing it they chained it...about 15 years ago.

The entire place is a dump electrically, and all around damn scary.


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## sparkysteve

I re-wired a living room that was once wired entirely with 18 gauge lamp cord with a multitude of buried splices made with "black tape" wirenuts. :no:


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## pudge565

mxslick said:


> Rude or not I don't care, it is still wrong and *a major Code violation*, any electrician past the first month of training should know that. The safety issue is why the Code allows the neutral/ground bond ONLY in one location. (You do know you never bond neutrals and grounds at a subpanel, right? )
> 
> In the interest of being fair to you though, the very simple reason you don't do it is because the ground (i.e. GROUNDING CONDUCTOR) is NOT intended as a return path for normal operation, and the neutral is. Since an electrical current will seek ALL available paths back to it's source (and since residential services have a GROUNDED conductor any path through ground, including earth, water, cement, people, etc. and including the GROUNDING conductor) you now have the possibility of current flow to all the exposed metal when a grounded appliance is plugged in. The degree of current and resulting shock will depend on the resistance of the person and objects involved and will divide up according to Ohm's Law.
> 
> That is why is is also possible to measure some voltage at distant points between neutral and ground even on a properly wired system.
> 
> You made a bad situation worse, really. The best bet would have been to leave them ungrounded.
> 
> There are others on here who can chime in with the Code references (I am at a film job and don't have my Code book handy) and perhaps a better explanation of the theory involved.


But he is not an electrician. He listed Computer Tech in his biography. And Telephone/Network Install Repair as his electrical related trade.


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## backstay

pudge565 said:


> But he is not an electrician. He listed Computer Tech in his biography. And Telephone/Network Install Repair as his electrical related trade.


And he should not be wiring above his level of understanding.


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## pudge565

backstay said:


> And he should not be wiring above his level of understanding.


Well we know that but you can't tell a ****** anything.


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## RIVETER

Chris1971 said:


> That would be one of the worse and most dangerous.


Why would it be dangerous? Sure, it is wrong, and against the code, but the worst that would happen is that a breaker would blow, or someone who did not know what they were doing might come in contact with it.


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## Wirenuting

They came off 70 amp MCC breaker, left all the old gear there, with #4 THW in 1" to drive then 1" to box on top AHU, about 150' run . Spliced to #4 THHN and dropped down into a 50HP motor were the split bolt burned thru, several times, the light tape job. 
I liked the #10 blue colored ground. At least they changed color as they headed to motor. The ground had melted thru and was useless. The THW was a gooey mess in the pipe also. 
Drive has been in bypass for about a year.


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## Wirenuting

Same MCC, left side bucket w/door open. Someone flipped the o/l's over so they would stop tripping. Will fix that later at end of job.


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## gizmo21187

This was totally worth the pack of cigs

Sent from my M80 using a lighter.


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## 220/221

gizmo21187 said:


> One side of the house had no ground, was cut all the way not even a nub. *Used nutral for ground* , didn't want to, no slack to pull more .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still wonder how the house never burnd down.


Fire is the least of your worries.

Using a neutral for a ground = possible electrocution on a seemingly unrelated part of the system. You'd be better off with no ground.

Next time install GFCI protection. *Never, ever, ever* use the neutral as a ground in a branch circuit. If you get a neutral failure you can end up with energized grounds which may lead to energized aplliances, garage doors etc.

Just think about a simple circuit. If you end up with an open neutral upstream of the recep, the current will try to flow thru the ground pin. If a grounded appliance/light etc is plugged in, the electricity will try to flow thru the frame. It will be waiting for you to walk up barefoot and touch it.


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## gizmo21187

Sent from my M80 using a lighter.


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## gizmo21187

JJ ware mi pack of cigs u fuger. I know ur reading this thread

Sent from my M80 using a lighter.


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## BBQ

gizmo21187 said:


> JJ ware mi pack of cigs u fuger. I know ur reading this thread


Crack for breakfast is a tough way to start the day.


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## gizmo21187

BBQ said:


> Crack for breakfast is a tough way to start the day.


We

Sent from my M80 using a lighter.


----------



## BBQ

gizmo21187 said:


> We
> 
> Sent from my M80 using a lighter.



hjs idnd akidmd dsj ak s ahjisybv tin wujemdh sormw!


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## TOOL_5150

BBQ said:


> hjs idnd akidmd dsj ak s ahjisybv tin wujemdh sormw!


habeebs beeboppin pop chop shop.


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## gizmo21187

Silly rabit crack is for kids

We

Sent from my M80 using a lighter.


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## vos

Yesterday at school I was in the cove in the theater and sail a self taping screw going throw the middle of a 1" conduit from when they put the roof on. Next time Im up there with my phone I will take a pic.


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## BBQ

vos said:


> Yesterday at school I was in the cove in the theater and sail a self taping screw going throw the middle of a 1" conduit from when they put the roof on. Next time Im up there with my phone I will take a pic.


Are you related to gizmo21187? :laughing:


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## vos

BBQ said:


> Are you related to gizmo21187? :laughing:


Whats that spouts to mean?


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## guest

I'm not as think you drunk I am. :laughing:


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## gizmo21187

BBQ said:


> Are you related to gizmo21187? :laughing:


He is my 23rd cusin 8 times removed

We

Silly rabit, crack is for kids.

Sent from my M80 using a lighter.


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## BBQ

gizmo21187 said:


> He is my 23rd cusin 8 times removed
> 
> We
> 
> Silly rabit, crack is for kids.
> 
> Sent from my M80 using a lighter.




Silly M80 usin 8 times removed

using a lighter. He is rabit, cusing a lighter. He is rabit, crack is for kids.

Sent for kids.

Sent from my M80 using a lighter. He is from my rack is for kids.

Silly M80 using a lighter. He is from my 23rd crabit, cusing a lighter. He is removed

Silly 23rd crabit, cusin 8 times removed

Sent from my rack is from my M80 using a lighter. He is my M80 usin 8 times removed

Sent for kids.


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## oldtimer

BBQ said:


> Silly M80 usin 8 times removed
> 
> using a lighter. He is rabit, cusing a lighter. He is rabit, crack is for kids.
> 
> Sent for kids.
> 
> Sent from my M80 using a lighter. He is from my rack is for kids.
> 
> Silly M80 using a lighter. He is from my 23rd crabit, cusing a lighter. He is removed
> 
> Silly 23rd crabit, cusin 8 times removed
> 
> Sent from my rack is from my M80 using a lighter. He is my M80 usin 8 times removed
> 
> Sent for kids.


 Stupidity by osmosis! :w00t:


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## Electrical Guy

Wish I had taken a pic of this, I was contracting in New Brunswick, Canada in a very rural area where it seems zero code rules applied and near everyone did their own wiring, probably because the economy is so bad that nobody can afford to hire a pro. Anyhow upon quoting this abortion of a house which used to be a single wide trailer but from the outside looked like a normal house. The panel had been moved from what was now the kitchen cabinets to the basement, the interesting part was how the mains were spliced. they had used three tubes of contact cement, yes, I said contact cement! They simple cut slits in each end of the tubes and stuck in the wires and let it cure!! Now, out there I had seen some terrifying things but this had to be the worst!


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## NevadaBoy

I really wish I had a picture.
Responded to a service call, "two motors for a small log ride that burned up. Found 2 600V 3pole 60A safety switches feeding the motors. 2 legs were hot with some weird votage levels, 1 leg was dead. Searched for hours to find where the service to the "pump house"(dog house) came from. 2" PVC entering dog house, 3" leaving adjacent building(700' away) labelled "Site Lights/PUMPS" or similar. I spent the rest of the day finding the suspected underground fault location.
The next morning the backhoe exposed a N48 Christy box about 10" under the lawn. Inside I found a Nema 1 fused disco. This is were they cut into an existing feeder conduit and tapped out into the disco to create a new feeder to the pump rack. Water was getting into the splices, causing some voltage to bleed. 1 fuse apparently opened, causing the underpowered motors to single phase until they both burned up. 
So the worst code violation I've seen:
*Christy box buried under lawn
*Nema 1 fused disconnect in underground box about 3' below surface, partly submerged in water.
*2 motors tapped from single circuit, with completely wrong size fuses.
*Motors fed directly from non fused switches, with no overload protection. The switches were used as the starting/stopping means, and they were labelled "start" and "stop".
All of this was at a public owned facility.
This got us a lot of work. The don't let facility "engineers" do electrical installs anymore.


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## Joe Tedesco

*Violation*


----------



## oldtimer

Joe Tedesco said:


>


 Joe! I'll bet you have many pictures like that.

Why not post them on Electrical Photos, then we can all share them.

I M O, it would make an interesting file.

What do members think?


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## Joe Tedesco

*Posting Pictures*

I sure will. I have been going through my storage spaces since last year and found lots of files. I will post them soon. I am busy now working on my YouTube site too. Look at my YouTube site where there are some pictures I posted recently.


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## amptech

I don't have a picture, but the most outrageously dangerous single violation I have ever discovered myself was in a 5 year old church. Baptistry heater/pump hardwired directly to the line side on the main in a 200A panel. #6 THHN copper crammed in to the lugs with 4/0 AL service conductors. Just (2) hots and a neutral feeding the baptistry and no OCP whatsoever between there and the heater/pump connections.


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## Diverse 1

Had a call to an old trailer with aluminum wiring and the old screw in fuses.

fuses had been changed from 15 to 30a, a lamp cord had been plugged into a receptacle ran out the window and spliced to 12 guage copper with only tape 
it then went through a doorway into a dug out basement where it was connected to
several incandescent fixtures six receptacles a large toaster oven and then to a kitchen range. not sure if they got it to work or not but I totally rewired the place including a new service.


----------



## oldtimer

Diverse 1 said:


> Had a call to an old trailer with aluminum wiring and the old screw in fuses.
> 
> fuses had been changed from 15 to 30a, a lamp cord had been plugged into a receptacle ran out the window and spliced to 12 guage copper with only tape
> it then went through a doorway into a dug out basement where it was connected to
> several incandescent fixtures six receptacles a large toaster oven and then to a kitchen range. not sure if they got it to work or not but I totally rewired the place including a new service.


 If it is the same owners, I consider you a very brave man.

I would not have touched it!


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## Joe Tedesco

*Real World Problems*

*All savvy dudes and dude ladies!*

I have thousands of crappy installations installed by lousy criminals! I am collecting new stories for my articles and need permission to use some of your pictures in EC&M, please give me that approval and send your short stories and bio to me for use in the magazine. 

Some really good violations here on this site! 

Also, please pick up the phone an call me during the day at* 617.901.7630*, I am on ATT so we can do free calls.

*Next questions:*

1, Should I start smoking a pipe again?
2. Should i start smoking again?
3. Should I by a guitar?
4. Should I buy a motorcycle?


----------



## HARRY304E

Joe Tedesco said:


> *All savvy dudes and dude ladies!*
> 
> I have thousands of crappy installations installed by lousy criminals! I am collecting new stories for my articles and need permission to use some of your pictures in EC&M, please give me that approval and send your short stories and bio to me for use in the magazine.
> 
> Some really good violations here on this site!
> 
> Also, please pick up the phone an call me during the day at* 617.901.7630*, I am on ATT so we can do free calls.
> 
> *Next questions:*
> 
> 1, Should I start smoking a pipe again?
> 2. Should i start smoking again?
> 3. Should I by a guitar?
> 4. Should I buy a motorcycle?


Buy a motorcycle:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## oldtimer

HARRY304E said:


> Buy a motorcycle:thumbup::thumbup:


 I turned 69 years old, and I am still fascinated by motorcycles.

My wife says look all you want, but don't even think buying!:laughing::laughing:

SPOILSPORT!!!

Same thing with guitars! (ex musician). :scooter::wheelchair::rockon:


----------



## Joe Tedesco

HARRY304E said:


> Buy a motorcycle:thumbup::thumbup:












Where can I find one like this again? I sure am sorry I sold it!


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## Joe Tedesco

*Bad stuff*

http://youtu.be/3gGdOgYEkgE


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## Dennis Alwon

Please refrain from calling out other members. Thanks


----------

