# 3 pole breaker on single phase



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Can you install a 3 pole 20 amp breaker in a panel with 3 single home runs on it ?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Sure.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I don't see why not, but why would you want to waste money like that ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Geee. I don't know if I can or not. For some reason, whenever I get a 3-pole breaker near a 1-phase panel, some sort of invisible force field gets thrown up and I can't approach the panel.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*w*

I meant the handle tie on it too....


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

....waste of money...but it would be ok....but why???:blink:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*dump*



RGH said:


> ....waste of money...but it would be ok....but why???:blink:


need to dump some excess stock...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Great was of having more than (6) circuit breakers in a panel with no main..


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Cletis said:


> need to dump some excess stock...


What you really mean is that you're using 3 single pole breakers to create a three pole breaker to use in a 3 phase panel, correct?


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

the breaker would have to be slash voltage rated 120/240 most three pole breakers are not. usally only rated 240 or 480


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Stuck*

Naw, this thing is all stuck together with a handle tie 480V rated trying to put in single phase 120/240 panel


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> Naw, this thing is all stuck together with a handle tie 480V rated trying to put in single phase 120/240 panel


Not an issue other than if one circuit trips they all will. You could also hook up either one , two or three of the poles- they all don't need to be connected.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

> 408.36(C) Delta Breakers. *A 3-phase disconnect or overcurrent device shall not be connected to the bus of any panelboard that has less than 3-phase buses.* Delta breakers shall not be installed in panelboards.


This section does not apply to the application is question but many code users think it does.


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## [email protected]&Relectric (Oct 26, 2012)

*Good code question*

I have never thought of installing a three phase breaker into a single phase panel. It may fit however it might encourage you to overlook the 2to1 ratio on mwbc for single phase configuration.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

[email protected]&Relectric said:


> I have never thought of installing a three phase breaker into a single phase panel. It may fit however it might encourage you to overlook the 2to1 ratio on mwbc for single phase configuration.


Who says 3 circuits on a 3-pole breaker MUST be a MWBC?

And what's a '2 to 1 ratio'?


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## [email protected]&Relectric (Oct 26, 2012)

2 hots ( phase A & B) share 1 neut. if you have a three phase brkr ( which I have never seen in a single phase panel ) a less experienced individual might just use it as a mwbc feed


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

ampman said:


> the breaker would have to be slash voltage rated 120/240 most three pole breakers are not. usally only rated 240 or 480


I cannot understand for the life of me why would this ever be required to be slash rated ? a slash rated breaker cannot be used when the phase to phase voltage is applied to only one pole. this is not the case here, since the voltage accross one pole will never exceed the rated voltage of the breaker.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

[email protected]&Relectric said:


> 2 hots ( phase A & B) share 1 neut. if you have a three phase brkr ( which I have never seen in a single phase panel ) a less experienced individual might just use it as a mwbc feed



Again: Who says 3 circuits on a 3-pole breaker MUST be a MWBC?


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## [email protected]&Relectric (Oct 26, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Again: Who says 3 circuits on a 3-pole breaker MUST be a MWBC?


I guess you can land individual circuits  to a multi pole brkr. Just not sure why you want to. Only reason to use the multi pole brkr on single circuits is to comply with code on opening all associated branch circuits with shared neutral. This way when you see a multi pole brkr, you know it's either feeding a mwbc, or a load requiring mutiple phases.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

[email protected]&Relectric said:


> I guess you can land individual circuits to a multi pole brkr. Just not sure why you want to. ..........



Suppose I want to put two circuits on a duplex receptacle?


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Suppose I want to put two circuits on a duplex receptacle?


In that case I would almost certainly use a mwbc & 2 pole breaker rather than 2 separate neutrals


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Hippie said:


> In that case I would almost certainly use a mwbc & 2 pole breaker rather than 2 separate neutrals


Im just trying to dump some stock in garage


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

That boy ain't right


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## D-Bo (Apr 15, 2012)

Five breakers is stock? You're so big time


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

I have got to say cletis is good at what he does. This is some professional grade trolling here lately lol


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## aDudeInPhx (Feb 20, 2012)

Cletis said:


> Im just trying to dump some stock in garage


Was this whole thread really just so you could nail us with the poorly painted toe nail/breaker on floor picture? 

If so that's pretty damn epic! 
If not - it doesn't even matter 'cause I'm lmao anyway.

In the future might I recommend a nice black red blue to compliment your toes?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*no*

not really. That's only about 1/3 of my 3 phase breaker old stock. Just looking to get rid of some really. Just making sure it's code and all on single pole circuits. My grandkid (12) is a beauty school trainee


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Can you install a 3 pole 20 amp breaker in a panel with 3 single home runs on it ?


..................


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Hippie said:


> In that case I would almost certainly use a mwbc & 2 pole breaker rather than 2 separate neutrals


Sometimes, MWBC are not allowed per specs.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Sometimes, MWBC are not allowed per specs.


And in that case, cletis could use his old used breakers for those split receptacles


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

Cletis said:


> not really. That's only about 1/3 of my 3 phase breaker old stock. Just looking to get rid of some really. Just making sure it's code and all on single pole circuits. My grandkid (12) is a beauty school trainee


Modeling and breakers so original...:icon_lol:


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## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

I am going to say it is a violation of the breaker approval or listing. 3 phase breakers are designed for 3 phase systems and are approved and tested for use in a 3 phase panel. It would be encumbant on the installer to prove to me the 3 phase breaker is approved to be installed in a single phase panel. So that is a product approval reason.
Lets explore the other implications(s) getting the neutral matched to the 3rd pole as it is on the same phase as pole 1. What do the circuits feed? Could a breaker tripping on 1 load disconnect an important load on the other pole?
Does the extra pole inhibit the trip for the other 2 poles.

Why does using a 3 pole breaker in a single phase panel seem like a good idea?

First thing I will think is the electrician is a moron and will inspect his work like he is an idiot and I have to find something to verify my first impression. I will reject the installation and make the electrician install components matched to the load and the system. To be sure it is cheaper to install the 2 pole breaker. even when the 3 pole is surplus.

I also generally use a hammer on old breakers I remove from panels so I don't have many used breakers in stock.. I would hate to install a used breaker that had internal damage and be responsible for the damage it caused.

We did see a few used electrical devices reach Canada after the New Orleans Flood.


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## Briancraig81 (May 25, 2007)

> 408.36(C) Delta Breakers. *A 3-phase disconnect or overcurrent device shall not be connected to the bus of any panelboard that has less than 3-phase buses.* Delta breakers shall not be installed in panelboards.





don_resqcapt19 said:


> This section does not apply to the application is question but many code users think it does.


Not intending to hi-jack, just trying to learn, but what exactly does that mean?

Edit: After a bit of Google-ing I think I found my answer but will post JIC anyone else is a bit clueless to what a delta breaker is and for analysis of my assumption . From what I gathered a Delta breaker was a 3phase breaker to be used in a single phase panel, One leg had a line and load. The utility brought in a high leg which attached to the breaker. This was done for houses with A/C's and well pumps because they ran better off 3phase. They were dis-allowed by the code in the early 1980's because if the breaker failed, you had to change it hot, no other way around it. Even though Delta breakers are now obsolete, they have this section in the code to let people know they cannot be used in new installations. 

Right?


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Briancraig81 said:


> Not intending to hi-jack, just trying to learn, but what exactly does that mean?
> 
> Edit: After a bit of Google-ing I think I found my answer but will post JIC anyone else is a bit clueless to what a delta breaker is and for analysis of my assumption . From what I gathered a Delta breaker was a 3phase breaker to be used in a single phase panel, One leg had a line and load. The utility brought in a high leg which attached to the breaker. This was done for houses with A/C's and well pumps because they ran better off 3phase. They were dis-allowed by the code in the early 1980's because if the breaker failed, you had to change it hot, no other way around it. Even though Delta breakers are now obsolete, they have this section in the code to let people know they cannot be used in new installations.
> 
> Right?


Yes, the "title" part of the code section limits the application of the section to delta breakers. You are correct that a delta breaker had two legs that connected to the panel bus and the third (high leg) connected directly to the line side of the breaker.


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

Here is a link to a photo of a delta breaker.


http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...ubb/showflat/Number/152376/page/16#Post152376


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

I agree with aDudeInPhx...I think this was about showing off that fancy nail polish lol


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Cletis said:


> not really. That's only about 1/3 of my 3 phase breaker old stock. Just looking to get rid of some really. Just making sure it's code and all on single pole circuits. My grandkid (12) is a beauty school trainee


Tell your grand kid he should pick some other field.


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## boydgilley (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't believe it can be done because a single phase panel only has two buss bars and is not set up to accept a 3 phase breaker a 3 phase panel has an a,b,c phase buss bar.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

We know...lol. But just like anything else...with a little elbow grease and some gumption...anything can fit anywhere! LOL


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Yes, the "title" part of the code section limits the application of the section to delta breakers.


I'm a bit puzzled. Why would they put


> A 3-phase disconnect or overcurrent device shall not be connected to the bus of any panelboard that has less than 3-phase buses.


in a section that is titled Delta Breakers? Wouldn't this suffice?


> Delta breakers shall not be installed in panelboards.


If the section is talking only about Delta breakers, then why even use the words 3-phase disconnect?


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## BlueearthDave (Nov 18, 2012)

I see a few things here. 
The pics you posted. You show a close up of a "BAB" bolt on CH breaker that is missing its handle tie. If this is the breaker you are wanting to use? I am not sure what panel you are trying to put it in? because Westinghouse and Cutler Hammer did not make a BAB single phase panel. If someone out there has one. I would like to see the label on it. 
Most of the other breakers in your pic are SQD QO. They would fit in single phase panels but they appeared to be higher amps. 

I would say. Yes. I see no reason you could not mount a three phase breaker in a single phase panel. I myself would not do it because, single pole breakers are dirt cheep to me. And it really isn't quality work, imho.
It would be an OK patch to get something up and running and then return with correct breakers. 

In this case. You would not be exceeding voltage rating of the breaker. Nor would there be a neutral problem. This is not a multi branch circuit, I am assuming (maybe wrong in doing so) that each circuit has its own neutral, wich originates from the neutral bar.

Yes, you could. But you wouldn't on my crew.


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