# Need old Simplex FACP wiring diagram.



## wildleg

what's to trouble shoot - it's only got 5 components (am I missing something ?)


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## MDShunk

wildleg said:


> what's to trouble shoot - it's only got 5 components (am I missing something ?)


Yeah, like it would be awesome to know what the cryptic terminal designations mean. I need to add to this actually (keep your comments to yourself :jester


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## wildleg

lol........


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## nrp3

The property management company I do a lot of business with has apartments of the 79/80 vintage. I used to do a lot of the testing of their systems years back. They had a bunch of red simplex FACPs some have been replaced. Most had more features than that one though. They all had the little colored incandescent rectangular lights. The green normal light and some of the ambers were always burned out. Theres one probably 30 min away that I could probably get at and take a trip to Kinkos if it sounds like it might help. They installed a lot of these things in small boiler rooms with high temps or on the sides of buildings in little shelters. The back up batteries if they had them were often dead.


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## wildleg

when they went to led's they were zoned weren't they ? that thing he's working on is a coded system (rings a bell code for the zone). I looked for a while on line for a manual or schematic, but I couldn't find anything.

in the absence of any information gathering, I think you are going to have to ring (toner ?) the wires for a pull on, say, 1st and 2nd fl, then maybe you can guess the location of the terminals you need to land on (I hope they aren't adding a 2 story building or something like that, and want to expand this system !)


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## nrp3

I'm sure Simplex would be happy to help.... For a price.


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## MDShunk

nrp3 said:


> I'm sure Simplex would be happy to help.... For a price.


Yeah, that's the trouble. I really hate dealing with Simplex, so I haven't even gone down that road yet. I just guessed that someone might have a diagram. I have other options such as bite the bullet and call Simplex or bite a bigger bullet and trace it all out. 

What I'm doing is adding a few coded pull stations where some inspector thinks some are missing, and adding a local notification device in each apartment. I've got 7 identical 12-unit buildings to do. No particular hurry, though.


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## crazymurph

I've thrown a lot of those in dumpersters. If you can find a Simplex field tek, he could help you out. Since you are working on the system, don't you have a tek now?


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## MisterCMK

WTF kind of an AHJ is not requiring replacement of those panels?


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## MDShunk

crazymurph said:


> I've thrown a lot of those in dumpersters. If you can find a Simplex field tek, he could help you out. Since you are working on the system, don't you have a tek now?


I'd be hard-pressed to call this work that rises to the level of requiring a tech.


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## crazymurph

MDShunk said:


> I'd be hard-pressed to call this work that rises to the level of requiring a tech.


 Sounds like you are using this equipment for a local alarm type of situation, Simplex is not involved. One idea I have is to go to a job at a school in your area and see if any of the fellow sparkies can hook you up. Many schools in my area still have that old equipment, and there is usually lots of paperwork and notes in the bottom of the panels. Good luck.


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## MDShunk

crazymurph said:


> Sounds like you are using this equipment for a local alarm type of situation, Simplex is not involved. One idea I have is to go to a job at a school in your area and see if any of the fellow sparkies can hook you up. Many schools in my area still have that old equipment, and there is usually lots of paperwork and notes in the bottom of the panels. Good luck.


Good idea. I know a few guys like that. 

The shame of this is that I've run across panels that have had the paperwork in the bottom (even torn them out), but I chucked it all figuring I'd never need it. Matter of fact, the coded pull stations I'll be putting in were salvage from former tear-outs. I'm not even sure if you can still buy a coded pull station, and if you could I'm sure you'd pay dear. I just saved a bunch because people bust things like that up. 

This basically is garbage, outdated equipment, but I guess there's still a pile of it in service still.


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## Skipp

I probally got something your looking for. The problem is, it could be anywhere buried in my boxes of prints, schematics, cut sheets,..etc. I used to always save any old paperwork I found in equipment being removed. Because I thought it could come in handy since all the local high schools were built with the same equipment. In fact 5 of the 7 schools I worked at were built by same contractor. "Neptune and Thomas". 
I'll try looking for it, but It may take some time. Unless you want to come over and digg in my storage. I never marked any boxes and I have a lot of useless parts and paperwork.


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## MDShunk

Skipp said:


> I probally got something your looking for. The problem is, it could be anywhere buried in my boxes of prints, schematics, cut sheets,..etc. I used to always save any old paperwork I found in equipment being removed. Because I thought it could come in handy since all the local high schools were built with the same equipment. In fact 5 of the 7 schools I worked at were built by same contractor. "Neptune and Thomas".
> I'll try looking for it, but It may take some time. Unless you want to come over and digg in my storage. I never marked any boxes and I have a lot of useless parts and paperwork.


Sure. I'll be right over. :laughing:

Job fell though anyhow. They're putting the complex up for sale.


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## Mike_586

I'm not sure if it would help because there might be some subtle differences between US and Canadian versions, but I have a file box somewhere in the garage, I'll check what I have and see if there's anything that might be usefull.

EDIT: I just noticed your last post saying the job fell through....nevermind


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## leland

Those coded pulls have a code wheel in them. Wheels are expensive!

These wheels will either open or close the ckt to activate the audibles/bells.
Same as a municipal fire ckt.


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## bduerler

trash that one and put up a new one


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## MDShunk

bduerler said:


> trash that one and put up a new one


That's certainly the initial temptation, but my success has been largely built by providing solutions that fit into the customer's budget.


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## Toronto Sparky

I would think getting insurance for that building would be an issue.. Small F/A panels used to be quite cheap.. I assume they still make panels with only 2-6 zones.


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## bduerler

Toronto Sparky said:


> I would think getting insurance for that building would be an issue.. Small F/A panels used to be quite cheap.. I assume they still make panels with only 2-6 zones.


yes as a matter of fact they do i installed and ESL 1500 today made by GE it has only one zone one the panel however you can expand it up to a five zone panel if need be and it has two NAC circuits. Another good one is an SPF-2404 by Notifier it has 4 zones with 2 Nac's


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## bduerler

MDShunk said:


> That's certainly the initial temptation, but my success has been largely built by providing solutions that fit into the customer's budget.


that is a good policy and a great way to build a good strong relationship with the customer. the company that i am with we try our best to do the same, however, down here the fire marshal usually does not approve of those tactics and we end up having to replace them anyways. you know i have a friend that works for Simplex down here in the Beaumont branch and he actually worked for my dad before leaving for simplex but he is trying to come back to us so i will ask him about that panel and see what he has to say about it


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## slowforthecones

Out here in California, the AHJ's allow such panels and systems as they are grandfathered in. However parts are hard to come by and if your technician is really good he can somehow come up with the parts to service a old panel. That panel looks like 1960s.....I just serviced one the other day to give a certificate.

Often times owners and management do not want to fix what is not broken because new systems cost a lot to install and require monitoring! The old systems did not require monitoring with a UL station.


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## fdew

Go over to this site.
http://mb.nawcc.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20

It is for antique electric clocks including Master systems. There are a few X Simplex guys there. One of them will have what you need.

Frank


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## RIVETER

wildleg said:


> lol........


Don't suck up.:whistling2:


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## Introyble

wildleg said:


> what's to trouble shoot - it's only got 5 components (am I missing something ?)


Yes, you forgot to ohm out the fuses. 5 amps right there in black sharpie.


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## WMcrth

MDShunk said:


> Anybody have any old Simplex coded gong panel wiring diagrams laying around? I've goe one to work on, but some diagrams would be helpful. All these coded gong panels were pretty close to the same, so most any old pre-1980's Simplex diagram will do the trick.


Did you ever get the manual you were looking for? I have a installation manual for a Simplex 4207/4208


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## SWDweller

I bought a 6 zone Kidde for my home. I called every manufacture in N. America asking for a smoke detector that did not have a battery in it. Nope, Nada were the answers, then came the idiots on the phone why would you want one? Lets see it's 3 am and the thing starts beeping. No big deal except my ceiling are 14'. My fat ass does not need to be on a ladder at 3 am.
Bought the panel for about $300 delivered and the detectors were 20 bucks apiece. No batteries. Now if it beeps I walk down the hall and push trouble and go back to sleep. I spent more but not by much. Smoke detectors are hideously priced and then comes the joy of tieing them together so you can have stereo in a home. Maybe some people do sleep that soundly, my dog sure does not. Smoke goes off and Rowdy dog is into lets bother/pester the man until it stops. Would not have it any other way.


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## Tonedeaf

Simplex, Red Hawk, ADT are the baggiest rip offs artist out there......I did a large demo disconnect job on a large warehouse (50,000 sqff of offices were remove to make more warehouse space) anyway I removed 60 Smokes out of a data loop.....All simplex had to do was to remove the points from the PANEL. They wanted $9000 just to come out and do engineering before doing any work.

I ripped the entire system out and put a Fire Lite for 18K. I used all the existing wiring and just changed out the panel the and devices.


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## Bagwon

MDShunk said:


> Anybody have any old Simplex coded gong panel wiring diagrams laying around? I've goe one to work on, but some diagrams would be helpful. All these coded gong panels were pretty close to the same, so most any old pre-1980's Simplex diagram will do the trick.
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> Hope this hrlps


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## WMcrth

nrp3 said:


> The property management company I do a lot of business with has apartments of the 79/80 vintage. I used to do a lot of the testing of their systems years back. They had a bunch of red simplex FACPs some have been replaced. Most had more features than that one though. They all had the little colored incandescent rectangular lights. The green normal light and some of the ambers were always burned out. Theres one probably 30 min away that I could probably get at and take a trip to Kinkos if it sounds like it might help. They installed a lot of these things in small boiler rooms with high temps or on the sides of buildings in little shelters. The back up batteries if they had them were often dead.


Do you have any of the old panels for sale?


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## WMcrth

I have a catalog of the 4208 diagrams and modules. If you'd like I could get you a copy.


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## MHElectric

Bro. This thread is 12 years old. The guy who started it hasn’t been around for years!


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## LGLS

Whatever Happened to Mark? MDShunk?


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