# Pay scale



## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Hey guys, just a quick question 

what should the hourly rate be on a 19 year resdential journeyman, non union in todays times. Wisconsin 

thanks in advance!


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

To many variables to give a solid answer. Check union scale in your area. And keep in mind they get great benefits. We have some guys here from your area I think and they might be more help than I am. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

All very tru. I do know theres some local companies paying $44 to guys that can come in and run a job.
Thanks for response


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Motoman0120 said:


> All very tru. I do know theres some local companies paying $44 to guys that can come in and run a job.
> Thanks for response


What's there to "run" in residential???

For spec homes it's base rate for beginners - top pay isn't relevant. EVERY ELECTRICIAN can wire a house so, the skillset isn't rare nor valuable. 

Welcome to capitalism 101,


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

LGLS said:


> What's there to "run" in residential???
> 
> For spec homes it's base rate for beginners - top pay isn't relevant. EVERY ELECTRICIAN can wire a house so, the skillset isn't rare nor valuable.
> 
> Welcome to capitalism 101,


Wow theres dicks on here as well! You must be quite the hero!


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Motoman0120 said:


> Wow theres dicks on here as well! You must be quite the hero!


Thank You.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Motoman0120 said:


> Wow theres dicks on here as well! You must be quite the hero!


How does that make him a **** he gave you the truth. The only thing to run in resi is romex. A monkey can do it


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Slay301 said:


> How does that make him a **** he gave you the truth. The only thing to run in resi is romex. A monkey can do it


Another one, cool. I thought I posted in the residential section. Ya know, theres alot of guys who take a lot of pride on the resi side


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Motoman0120 said:


> Another one, cool. I thought I posted in the residential section. Ya know, theres alot of guys who take a lot of pride on the resi side


Did anyone ever say that resis don’t take pride? No you just Immediately went to attacking @LGLS


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## UpstateNY96 (6 mo ago)

The way I look at it, no matter what the job is, its valuable. Even in mechanic garages somebody is only doing oil changes, but that vehicle will not be doing well without oil LOL. There's ton of work for residential and its good money as well. I think what separates a good electrician from a wire puller in residential is trouble shooting skills. I tell people when it comes to trouble shooting, you're not paying me for my time but my knowledge. I've enjoy doing both commercial and residential because its a good change up.


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## UpstateNY96 (6 mo ago)

Just remember, everyone on here started from somewhere. I've been on jobs where the home owner tried doing their own electric and it wouldn't pass inspection, so they pay the price to have it done the right way. That must be one smart a** monkey lol


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

When I talk to my apprentices in school, the program basically divides into residential, commercial and industrial; I always say that is more related to the environment you will work in vice the “type” of electrical work you will do.

I run conduit, connect lights, install switches, change breakers, etc in all three environments. I might have to figure out a furnace control board in resi, a grease pump in commercial and a motor controller in industrial; the knowledge is not that much different and the theory is exactly the same.

If I have to wire a receptacles, if I fish romex, or bx down the wall or strap Teck90 to the wall, at the end of the day it is still a receptacle.

I agree that it is unlikely you will find a PLC in a home, but it is just as unlikely you will find a swimming pool in a plant.

Cheers
John


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Welcome
First: LGLS and Slay are union guys so the Non-union part got them, we are all not that way.
Second: Rates area specific not state. In PA city rates are twice as much as country rates.
Third: The best way to find out rates for an area is Indeed.com, it may not be exact but it will give you an idea.
In this day and age it is how valuable you are to your current employer and what you can do that will get you the money. If you are skilled and think you are worth more ask and explain why.
Don't just go in and complain you don't make enough.

Cowboy


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

25% of your wages are benefits. (maybe 15% as your young) So 44 with no benefits is really 33. Cost of living also has to be taken into account as well as the environment your working in. 

Wisconsin to bloody cold for me so i would pass on $100 a hour.


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

just the cowboy said:


> Welcome
> First: LGLS and Slay are union guys so the Non-union part got them, we are all not that way.
> Second: Rates area specific not state. In PA city rates are twice as much as country rates.
> Third: The best way to find out rates for an area is Indeed.com, it may not be exact but it will give you an idea.
> ...


Thank you!


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> Welcome
> First: LGLS and Slay are union guys so the Non-union part got them, we are all not that way.
> Second: Rates area specific not state. In PA city rates are twice as much as country rates.
> Third: The best way to find out rates for an area is Indeed.com, it may not be exact but it will give you an idea.
> ...


Where did me or @LGLS mention anything about this being a union thing. Neither one of us said anything other than the truth. He’s the one that called us Diks. I didn’t say anything other than the fact that any one can staple romex to a wooden board and build a 120/240 single phase service.


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Slay301 said:


> Where did me or @LGLS mention anything about this being a union thing. Neither one of us said anything other than the truth. He’s the one that called us Diks. I didn’t say anything other than the fact that any one can staple romex to a wooden board and build a 120/240 single phase service.


Theres alot more to residential that that


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Motoman0120 said:


> Theres alot more to residential that that


Ok, your opinion imop I beg to differ


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Motoman0120 said:


> Hey guys, just a quick question
> 
> what should the hourly rate be on a 19 year resdential journeyman, non union in todays times. Wisconsin
> 
> thanks in advance!


One way to find out would be apply for some jobs

In rural Georgia $12-$25 p/h, posters on here are from all over US and Canada


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## Leg wrestle champ (Nov 14, 2012)

Slay301 said:


> Where did me or @LGLS mention anything about this being a union thing. Neither one of us said anything other than the truth. He’s the one that called us Diks. I didn’t say anything other than the fact that any one can staple romex to a wooden board and build a 120/240 single phase service.


If you guys think that’s all there is to residential then no wonder you can’t do it. That’s like me saying all there is to commercial is hauling pipe up and down stairs and telling your mama jokes.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I kind of agree with Lgls and slay301. Residential has been declining in the required skill sets. It shouldn't be but it is. I have seen the quality of work go down over the years by handyman, foreigners, unlicensed, trunkslammers, their uncle... etc. People don't care as long as it is cheap. I have seen many carpenters doing everything and having their guys do the work. When contractors are charging $75.00 / hour for the helper, people start to look for other options.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Leg wrestle champ said:


> If you guys think that’s all there is to residential then no wonder you can’t do it. That’s like me saying all there is to commercial is hauling pipe up and down stairs and telling your mama jokes.


Lol I do both and it’s pretty much it. Ever wire a 4160 load break elbow ? To be fair there are a lot of yo momma jokes


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## Leg wrestle champ (Nov 14, 2012)

Slay301 said:


> Lol I do both and it’s pretty much it. Ever wire a 4160 load break elbow ? To be fair there are a lot of yo momma jokes


I do both as well Lol, it’s all good I love the resi-commercial smack talk. I happen to prefer large custom homes but love the whole industry. I have not worked on that, my commercial work is smaller TI’s, restaurants an elementary school etc. I think it’s awesome that I’m our industry we can all find a place that works well with our different backgrounds and personalities


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Leg wrestle champ said:


> I do both as well Lol, it’s all good I love the resi-commercial smack talk. I happen to prefer large custom homes but love the whole industry. I have not worked on that, my commercial work is smaller TI’s, restaurants an elementary school etc. I think it’s awesome that I’m our industry we can all find a place that works well with our different backgrounds and personalities


I agree its cool we can all learn as much as we want and as the saying goes we all have to start somewhere and that somewhere is residential construction


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Slay301 said:


> Ok, your opinion imop I beg to differ


Thats your opinion


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Slay301 said:


> Did anyone ever say that resis don’t take pride? No you just Immediately went to attacking @LGLS


Ah no.. they are attacking the resi side of things. We all have a spot and commercial is no better than resi. Cookie cutter houses i can agree on. But i do custom/ no plans and have to design on the fly. Alot more work than getting a plan and installing it


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## Leg wrestle champ (Nov 14, 2012)

Motoman0120 said:


> Ah no.. they are attacking the resi side of things. We all have a spot and commercial is no better than resi. Cookie cutter houses i can agree on. But i do custom/ no plans and have to design on the fly. Alot more work than getting a plan and installing it


I’ll play both sides. I love residential, it’s what I do and it’s what I want to do forever. I think everyone here can agree that if you’re willing to get up every morning and work hard to provide for yourself and/or family, then that is an amazing thing. We should all have respect for that. How old are you? If you’re young, then, understand that guys love giving each other a hard time. The guys you’re arguing with have a lot of experience and expertise. You can learn a lot from a guy who’s been in the trenches for a few decades in any part of the industry. I could be wrong but I think they are mostly just busting your chops don’t take it personally. When commercial guys make jokes about us resi guys just remember that you and I can wire up 3 ways with our eyes closed and they have to draw it out and have a meeting about it. 😉


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Motoman0120 said:


> Ah no.. they are attacking the resi side of things. We all have a spot and commercial is no better than resi. Cookie cutter houses i can agree on. But i do custom/ no plans and have to design on the fly. Alot more work than getting a plan and installing it


Ya not what happens at all. Designing houses
On the fly is as simple as a outlet here one over there a can light here a can light there. Not that hard.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Leg wrestle champ said:


> I’ll play both sides. I love residential, it’s what I do and it’s what I want to do forever. I think everyone here can agree that if you’re willing to get up every morning and work hard to provide for yourself and/or family, then that is an amazing thing. We should all have respect for that. How old are you? If you’re young, then, understand that guys love giving each other a hard time. The guys you’re arguing with have a lot of experience and expertise. You can learn a lot from a guy who’s been in the trenches for a few decades in any part of the industry. I could be wrong but I think they are mostly just busting your chops don’t take it personally. When commercial guys make jokes about us resi guys just remember that you and I can wire up 3 ways with our eyes closed and they have to draw it out and have a meeting about it. 😉


believe it or not we have three ways in commercial too.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

Do you realize how many IBEW guys approach me for work on Fridays and Saturdays?


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

[QUOTE="Navyguy, 

I agree that it is unlikely you will find a PLC in a home, but it is just as unlikely you will find a swimming pool in a plant.

Cheers
John
[/QUOTE]

I saw a few pools at plant sites. Them falkers, called them effluent ponds. They would not allow us to setup the beach chairs at break time. All those pop cannons keeping the birds away.

I guess that was a safety moment 🤔😆🦫


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Leg wrestle champ said:


> I’ll play both sides. I love residential, it’s what I do and it’s what I want to do forever. I think everyone here can agree that if you’re willing to get up every morning and work hard to provide for yourself and/or family, then that is an amazing thing. We should all have respect for that. How old are you? If you’re young, then, understand that guys love giving each other a hard time. The guys you’re arguing with have a lot of experience and expertise. You can learn a lot from a guy who’s been in the trenches for a few decades in any part of the industry. I could be wrong but I think they are mostly just busting your chops don’t take it personally. When commercial guys make jokes about us resi guys just remember that you and I can wire up 3 ways with our eyes closed and they have to draw it out and have a meeting about it. 😉


Thank you for your response. I am 40, been doing it for 19 years. And i was just asking a simple question even tho i know there are alot of variables. So sick of this resi vs. commercial warfare thats been going on


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Motoman0120 said:


> Thank you for your response. I am 40, been doing it for 19 years. And i was just asking a simple question even tho i know there are alot of variables. So sick of this resi vs. commercial warfare thats been going on


then don’t call people dicks for
Giving you an answer you don’t wanna hear


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

Realistically no matter what you think you're worth you might as well pad the numbers an extra 10% to counter inflation and fuel prices.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Slay301 said:


> Ya not what happens at all. Designing houses
> On the fly is as simple as a outlet here one over there a can light here a can light there. Not that hard.


I can see you haven't wired custom houses.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

ohm it hertz said:


> Realistically no matter what you think you're worth you might as well pad the numbers an extra 10% to counter inflation and fuel prices.


Thank you


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Forge Boyz said:


> I can see you haven't wired custom houses.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Thank you my man. Commercial guys dont get it!


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

kb1jb1 said:


> I kind of agree with Lgls and slay301. Residential has been declining in the required skill sets. It shouldn't be but it is. I have seen the quality of work go down over the years by handyman, foreigners, unlicensed, trunkslammers, their uncle... etc. People don't care as long as it is cheap. I have seen many carpenters doing everything and having their guys do the work. When contractors are charging $75.00 / hour for the helper, people start to look for other options.


I do agree with you but i/we dont do the cookie cutters than everyone thinks residential is


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## Motoman0120 (5 mo ago)

Slay301 said:


> then don’t call people dicks for
> Giving you an answer you don’t wanna hear


 I was asking a simple question and these heros needed to add their opinions on something i wasn’t asking


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## CoreyOnTheBrink (Apr 9, 2021)

“I’d like to take this opportunity to ignore your question and just point out that you wasted 19 years of your life thinking you were building a skill set that had some value but it doesn’t. Your field of work is only a starting point that you were supposed to move on from. The idea of a leader in residential electrical work is a bit of a joke. Leaders aren’t needed there. I hope this has been helpful for you.”

I dunno, seems like a mean, unnecessary thing to say.


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## Leg wrestle champ (Nov 14, 2012)

CoreyOnTheBrink said:


> “I’d like to take this opportunity to ignore your question and just point out that you wasted 19 years of your life thinking you were building a skill set that had some value but it doesn’t. Your field of work is only a starting point that you were supposed to move on from. The idea of a leader in residential electrical work is a bit of a joke. Leaders aren’t needed there. I hope this has been helpful for you.”
> 
> I dunno, seems like a mean, unnecessary thing to say.


I won’t take offense, I’ll just say you’re wrong. Even if he was a bit rude in the beginning. No reason to belittle his career. It’s not easy to hold work down for 19 years. If he were jobless and complaining about food stamps you’d also have something negative to say about that. This is a forum for all electricians, you’re not better than him or me or anyone. Residential is full of the smartest electricians I’ve ever met. Believe me when I say that. ✌🏻 peace. Everyone be safe


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## CoreyOnTheBrink (Apr 9, 2021)

Just to be clear, I was paraphrasing the initial responses to the poster’s question.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Motoman0120 said:


> Thank you my man. Commercial guys dont get it!


And I don't even particularly like wiring houses. 1 or 2 a year is enough for me.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Credit bill39 ....


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Forge Boyz said:


> I can see you haven't wired custom houses.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Ohh yaa I forgot the 3 way switches you seem so fond of


Motoman0120 said:


> **** you


Triggered


Motoman0120 said:


> No, f u. I was asking a simple question and these heros needed to add their opinions on something i wasn’t asking


Way triggered. Have you ever considered that when you ask a question you’re literally asking for some one’s opinion? No wonder the most difficult thing you know how to do is staple romex down to a 3 way switch


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Commercial or residential, some guys just know how to keep doing the same thing over and over, the ones that impress me can troubleshoot 

Also think humility can be very productive


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Slay301 said:


> wonder the most difficult thing you know how to do is staple romex down to a 3 way switch


Toss in a 4 way, he said he does custom jobs.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Wirenuting said:


> Toss in a 4 way, he said he does custom jobs.


Omg lmao I almost said that too


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

Slay301 said:


> No wonder the most difficult thing you know how to do is staple romex down to a 3 way switch


So condescending. I'm very very very thankful most electricians do not wire houses. No really, _thank you. _My bank account thanks you, my family thanks you. My kitchen, bath and standing seam roof thank you. Really I have nothing but thanks for those who ignore residential. Customers are complaining about a 6 month wait, begging me to start, or trying really hard not to show their desperation. I'm very in demand over here despite some people saying I'm not. 

Really, commercial is _easier_ work than residential. Easier workspaces, easier to distribute power, easier to bond and ground, mounting boxes. There's more labor, but it's _easy labor. _Really a monkey could do it. Matter of fact this monkey is doing some light commercial work this fall. Sometimes you gotta return to your roots. 

I don't know, I find the whole resi/commercial battle silly.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

ohm it hertz said:


> I don't know, I find the whole resi/commercial battle silly.


Don't forget about us industrial guys, we get picked on as well.


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## Leg wrestle champ (Nov 14, 2012)

ohm it hertz said:


> So condescending. I'm very very very thankful most electricians do not wire houses. No really, _thank you. _My bank account thanks you, my family thanks you. My kitchen, bath and standing seam roof thank you. Really I have nothing but thanks for those who ignore residential. Customers are complaining about a 6 month wait, begging me to start, or trying really hard not to show their desperation. I'm very in demand over here despite some people saying I'm not.
> 
> Really, commercial is _easier_ work than residential. Easier workspaces, easier to distribute power, easier to bond and ground, mounting boxes. There's more labor, but it's _easy labor. _Really a monkey could do it. Matter of fact this monkey is doing some light commercial work this fall. Sometimes you gotta return to your roots.
> 
> I don't know, I find the whole resi/commercial battle silly.


Very well said!


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

ohm it hertz said:


> So condescending. I'm very very very thankful most electricians do not wire houses. No really, _thank you. _My bank account thanks you, my family thanks you. My kitchen, bath and standing seam roof thank you. Really I have nothing but thanks for those who ignore residential. Customers are complaining about a 6 month wait, begging me to start, or trying really hard not to show their desperation. I'm very in demand over here despite some people saying I'm not.
> 
> Really, commercial is _easier_ work than residential. Easier workspaces, easier to distribute power, easier to bond and ground, mounting boxes. There's more labor, but it's _easy labor. _Really a monkey could do it. Matter of fact this monkey is doing some light commercial work this fall. Sometimes you gotta return to your roots.
> 
> I don't know, I find the whole resi/commercial battle silly.


Triggered forsure lol resis always think they have if so hard lmao . Resi is easy a monkey can do it.
Commercial is 60percent harder and then comes
Industrial I’d love to see one of you resi cucks run 4” rigid 300 ft in the air in the winter lmaoand then pull 500mcm in it get fuggin real. Resi is stapling romex to studs and splicing out plastic boxes.


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## Irwinote (Feb 28, 2015)

We’re offering 32 plus take home vehicle here in Houston. Mostly we do service/remodel no new construction.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Irwinote said:


> We’re offering 32 plus take home vehicle here in Houston. Mostly we do service/remodel no new construction.


What bennys?


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## Leg wrestle champ (Nov 14, 2012)

Slay301 said:


> Triggered forsure lol resis always think they have if so hard lmao . Resi is easy a monkey can do it.
> Commercial is 60percent harder and then comes
> Industrial I’d love to see one of you resi cucks run 4” rigid 300 ft in the air in the winter lmaoand then pull 500mcm in it get fuggin real. Resi is stapling romex to studs and splicing out plastic boxes.





Slay301 said:


> Triggered forsure lol resis always think they have if so hard lmao . Resi is easy a monkey can do it.
> Commercial is 60percent harder and then comes
> Industrial I’d love to see one of you resi cucks run 4” rigid 300 ft in the air in the winter lmaoand then pull 500mcm in it get fuggin real. Resi is stapling romex to studs and splicing out plastic boxes.


sounds like monkey work to me


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

Slay301 said:


> Triggered forsure lol resis always think they have if so hard lmao . Resi is easy a monkey can do it.
> Commercial is 60percent harder and then comes
> Industrial I’d love to see one of you resi cucks run 4” rigid 300 ft in the air in the winter lmaoand then pull 500mcm in it get fuggin real. Resi is stapling romex to studs and splicing out plastic boxes.


Yeah, you're a *****. I'll do your work anyday and not complain about it. Commercial work is _easy_.


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## Irwinote (Feb 28, 2015)

Slay301 said:


> What bennys?


After 6months time.

2 week PTO accumulation.
9 paid holidays. (most company’s just do 6-7)
Health insurance is in the works. Company will be providing a HSA card coupled with it. (70$ Weekly by company- $3640 for the year) requires a health plan.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Motoman0120 said:


> Another one, cool. I thought I posted in the residential section. Ya know, theres alot of guys who take a lot of pride on the resi side


My cat prides herself at every dump in the litter box too... She's beaming right now.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

@Slay301 
DAMN...I hit Fire Island Pines, get drunk, and 2 days lated this thread explodes in my absense!!!

:::Kracken Fingers now...:::

(See what I did there?)



UpstateNY96 said:


> The way I look at it, no matter what the job is, its valuable. Even in mechanic garages somebody is only doing oil changes, but that vehicle will not be doing well without oil LOL. There's ton of work for residential and its good money as well. I think what separates a good electrician from a wire puller in residential is trouble shooting skills. I tell people when it comes to trouble shooting, you're not paying me for my time but my knowledge. I've enjoy doing both commercial and residential because its a good change up.


Which begs the question if a residential wireman works 8 a day and I work 8 with a triple nickel bending 2 & 1/2 GRC why does he make 15 while I make 70? Does not a new truck, a tool, a gallon of milk for the kids or gas to feed the machine required to get to any job not cost both of us the same?

Just something to chew on. Does not a Data Bltch or a Telco specialist or a FA installer or a fitter or a motor troubleshooter or traffic signal maintainer or a residential wireman all pretty much possess the same general skillset? Isn't just the time spent on a job away from home and family and leisure and freedom basically worth a living wage just for starters? Wh Sure we can go on and on about supply and demand but fact is, we all have the same fugging needs don't we? Why such a disparity. Something to think about. Whoever decided to "divide" these "divisions" also "decided" the pecking order. And to divide is to conquer.



just the cowboy said:


> Welcome
> First: LGLS and Slay are union guys so the Non-union part got them, we are all not that way.
> Second: Rates area specific not state. In PA city rates are twice as much as country rates.
> Third: The best way to find out rates for an area is Indeed.com, it may not be exact but it will give you an idea.
> ...


Damn you really are jealous of union guys arentcha skippy?
Not a single mention nor hint of a union/nonunion issue anywhere in this thread yet here you are, once again, using UNION as some excuse for what you must view as exceptionalism.



gpop said:


> 25% of your wages are benefits. (maybe 15% as your young) So 44 with no benefits is really 33. Cost of living also has to be taken into account as well as the environment your working in.
> 
> Wisconsin to bloody cold for me so i would pass on $100 a hour.


No dude, 100% of my wages are wages... benefits come ON TOP. But not with the scabs- a 50.00 per hour offer means a lot of that gets pulled back for your "upkeep." Because you allow it. I refuse, too much pride here to let that bullchit fly. Stand up for yourself.



Leg wrestle champ said:


> If you guys think that’s all there is to residential then no wonder you can’t do it. That’s like me saying all there is to commercial is hauling pipe up and down stairs and telling your mama jokes.


More into the "Little Johnny" jokes myself.



kb1jb1 said:


> I kind of agree with Lgls and slay301. Residential has been declining in the required skill sets. It shouldn't be but it is. I have seen the quality of work go down over the years by handyman, foreigners, unlicensed, trunkslammers, their uncle... etc. People don't care as long as it is cheap. I have seen many carpenters doing everything and having their guys do the work. When contractors are charging $75.00 / hour for the helper, people start to look for other options.


Before I sold a new house was built next door. Wireman shows up in a 24 year old Honda with a 6' on the roof. Cable and boxes in the trunk & backseat. A Honduran shows up and he instructs where and how to drill holes and which color cable goes from box to box using colored magic markers and upside down marking spray paint. One immigrant probably never even had electricity roped a house in 2 days right off the boat.

Residential are paid from the neck down.
So easy... even a caveman can do it.


Leg wrestle champ said:


> I’ll play both sides. I love residential, it’s what I do and it’s what I want to do forever. I think everyone here can agree that if you’re willing to get up every morning and work hard to provide for yourself and/or family, then that is an amazing thing. We should all have respect for that. How old are you? If you’re young, then, understand that guys love giving each other a hard time. The guys you’re arguing with have a lot of experience and expertise. You can learn a lot from a guy who’s been in the trenches for a few decades in any part of the industry. I could be wrong but I think they are mostly just busting your chops don’t take it personally. When commercial guys make jokes about us resi guys just remember that you and I can wire up 3 ways with our eyes closed and they have to draw it out and have a meeting about it. 😉


I love how you think a 3-way is a complex issue. Probably s the most complex thing is a residence come to think of it. Oh well, keep calm and carry on my wayward son.



ohm it hertz said:


> Do you realize how many IBEW guys approach me for work on Fridays and Saturdays?


Thanks for dispeling the myth we're all standing around doing nothing but drinking, chewing tobacco, and avoiding work as worthless lazy slugs! But I bet more nonunion hacks have approached me to join the IBEW than IBEW members asked you for work.



Motoman0120 said:


> Thank you for your response. I am 40, been doing it for 19 years. And i was just asking a simple question even tho i know there are alot of variables. So sick of this resi vs. commercial warfare thats been going on


19 years wow. After 2 I was so bored and uninspired I wanted to commit suicide. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.



ohm it hertz said:


> Realistically no matter what you think you're worth you might as well pad the numbers an extra 10% to counter inflation and fuel prices.


ANd demand it because sure as the sun rises in the East your boss already raised his prices - go get your slice of that pie.


Forge Boyz said:


> I can see you haven't wired custom houses.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Dontcha think a lot of TIs and design-builds have customization involved? What do you do, freak out because a sudden 4 way was thrown into the works?



CoreyOnTheBrink said:


> “I’d like to take this opportunity to ignore your question and just point out that you wasted 19 years of your life thinking you were building a skill set that had some value but it doesn’t. Your field of work is only a starting point that you were supposed to move on from. The idea of a leader in residential electrical work is a bit of a joke. Leaders aren’t needed there. I hope this has been helpful for you.”
> 
> I dunno, seems like a mean, unnecessary thing to say.





Leg wrestle champ said:


> I won’t take offense, I’ll just say you’re wrong. Even if he was a bit rude in the beginning. No reason to belittle his career. It’s not easy to hold work down for 19 years. If he were jobless and complaining about food stamps you’d also have something negative to say about that. This is a forum for all electricians, you’re not better than him or me or anyone. Residential is full of the smartest electricians I’ve ever met. Believe me when I say that. ✌🏻 peace. Everyone be safe





ohm it hertz said:


> So condescending. I'm very very very thankful most electricians do not wire houses. No really, _thank you. _My bank account thanks you, my family thanks you. My kitchen, bath and standing seam roof thank you. Really I have nothing but thanks for those who ignore residential. Customers are complaining about a 6 month wait, begging me to start, or trying really hard not to show their desperation. I'm very in demand over here despite some people saying I'm not.
> 
> Really, commercial is _easier_ work than residential. Easier workspaces, easier to distribute power, easier to bond and ground, mounting boxes. There's more labor, but it's _easy labor. _Really a monkey could do it. Matter of fact this monkey is doing some light commercial work this fall. Sometimes you gotta return to your roots.
> 
> I don't know, I find the whole resi/commercial battle silly.


You 2 don't get it, I wasn't nor was anyone else being condescending. Just spitting out truth. Fact is it's clear he's a great electrician - but he's king snot in his field right now (which ain't saying much however admirable) it strokes his ego and makes him feel big, and I'm tearing him down to rebuild him in my image - so he takes the next step OUT of his comfort zone. He's been avoiding his fate because he don't want to be the "new kid on the block" having to learn new stuff again.



just the cowboy said:


> Don't forget about us industrial guys, we get picked on as well.


Spend 25% of your day at toolbox talks, amirite?



Irwinote said:


> We’re offering 32 plus take home vehicle here in Houston. Mostly we do service/remodel no new construction.


I love how contractors think a take home truck advertizing your brand and cared for by your employee is a benefit to THEM as if it weren't totally in your best interests not to have to store them all overnight and have security.



Slay301 said:


> What bennys?


Well you get to babysit his truck 24/7 so there's that.



ohm it hertz said:


> Yeah, you're a ***. I'll do your work anyday and not complain about it. Commercial work is _easy_.


OK the whites get a hot wash, warm rinse with the Borax and Baking Powder treatment so my bloomies are silky soft around my junk. The darks and jeans are warm/cold and just use the tide pods put DO NOT EAT THEM I COUNTED 'EM!



Irwinote said:


> After 6months time.
> 
> 2 week PTO accumulation.
> 9 paid holidays. (most company’s just do 6-7)
> Health insurance is in the works. Company will be providing a HSA card coupled with it. (70$ Weekly by company- $3640 for the year) requires a health plan.


LOL "IN the works." Classic, been hearing it since 1984. LIAR.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

LGLS said:


> OK the whites get a hot wash, warm rinse with the Borax and Baking Powder treatment so my bloomies are silky soft around my junk. The darks and jeans are warm/cold and just use the tide pods put DO NOT EAT THEM I COUNTED 'EM!


You pay me my standard rate and I'll even fold them for you.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

ohm it hertz said:


> You pay me my standard rate and I'll even fold them for you.


Naked of course.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

LGLS said:


> Damn you really are jealous of union guys arentcha skippy?
> Not a single mention nor hint of a union/nonunion issue anywhere in this thread yet here you are, once again, using UNION as some excuse for what you must view as exceptionalism.


Actually no I respect the union guys. I always recommend the union to new guys that post how do I get into this trade, they offer the best training and basic experience. I misunderstood it was Resi/Com not union/non-union


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> Actually no I respect the union guys. I always recommend the union to new guys that post how do I get into this trade, they offer the best training and basic experience. I misunderstood it was Resi/Com not union/non-union


Apology accepted


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Heck, my job is so easy and brainless,
even I can do it.


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## DragnUp (Jun 18, 2021)

my company in the midwest will start guys with little experience in the electrical construction jobs, beginning at 24usd/hour. they get cost-of-living annual increases of 5% or less, and there's four dollar raises before they can try for foreman. so they'll kind of top out around 34 or 35, but there's 6% 401K matching and med/dental. paid holidays increase until five weeks a year at 20 years.

maintenance electrical starts at 28usd and tops out around 38ish... 

from there, folks go to running projects, managing employees, planning work, or doing logic/PLCs for over 40usd/hour, or 85K/year ish 

three other major employers in my area all offer a higher hourly wage. 

i'm non-union but i work around union guys regularly. their take-home pay is similar to ours or slightly better, but their retirement is much better.... and most of them are allowed as much overtime as they want, into DT on Saturday and Sunday.


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

Slay301 said:


> How does that make him a **** he gave you the truth. The only thing to run in resi is romex. A monkey can do it


Yeah, but most monkeys could not do it to code. Think again.
How many times have I had to watch an apprentice for months on jobs and still find the details wrong? Missing nail plates? Staples too far apart? Even running wire the hard way or through structures when unnecessary? How about running wire into soffit instead of down walls (God I hate that).
Then there is the service industry, chasing ghosts of intermittent issues with neutrals etc. I agree that new construction in residential is not all that hard, but in areas where building is HOT the rates are still HIGH.


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

People who think that there's nothing to it when it comes to residential are just cogs in the suburban sprawl market.
Living in a city, I've done lots of rehab of different types of houses, but never new construction in a cookie-cutter development. I'd shrivel up and die if I had a job like that. :-(

... And then there's the troubleshooting. That's where the real fun is!


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## drtombo (May 25, 2010)

gpop said:


> 25% of your wages are benefits. (maybe 15% as your young) So 44 with no benefits is really 33. Cost of living also has to be taken into account as well as the environment your working in.
> 
> Wisconsin to bloody cold for me so i would pass on $100 a hour.


I think that was $4 on the check.


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## pokeytwo (Dec 6, 2015)

Sorry Slay301, I started in heavy industrial running 4” rigid in Class 1 div 2. Done commercial, avoided resi like the plague other than side jobs. Always preferred industrial - union or non over the others. Each to their own but must say I seldom found someone who started in resi or commercial on an industrial project. Been retired for a while, sorta, but there was only one ticket in my day. Now one needs a ticket to tie one’s shoes and another to zip one’s pants.
Good hearted banter between the branches is a good thing, IMHO

Sorry if industrial guys aren’t welcome here. It’s just a branch of the trade, right?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Djea3 said:


> Yeah, but most monkeys could not do it to code. Think again.
> How many times have I had to watch an apprentice for months on jobs and still find the details wrong? Missing nail plates? Staples too far apart? Even running wire the hard way or through structures when unnecessary? How about running wire into soffit instead of down walls (God I hate that).
> Then there is the service industry, chasing ghosts of intermittent issues with neutrals etc. I agree that new construction in residential is not all that hard, but in areas where building is HOT the rates are still HIGH.


First of all apprentices should not be wiring houses. Apprentices should be working with the journeyman who teach them exactly how to do everything right until they know it. You just tipped your hat buddy the reason why you think other people can't wire a house to code is because you're using apprentices inappropriately and they're not apprentices so stop using the word you're even using that wrong. You're not training them, and you're expecting production out of them and to make money off them by selling them out and farming them out as actual electricians. I learned residential wiring in tech school when I was in the 10th grade. In the 11th grade I moved on to Commercial and Industrial. The industrial book was three times thicker than the residential book and twice as thick is commercial. I was the only one who started the motor controls chapter in the last 10 years that the teacher had been teaching this these courses.

When I got my first non-union job wiring houses, they were paying me five bucks an hour. The two other " electricians "? We're making $20 an hour doing the exact same thing I was doing, each of us in a separate house. My work was every bit as much if not better than theirs. They also could not understand how I roped out three-way switches because they only knew how to do it by feeding one end then going to the switch and then going to the light. 

On Friday we would hang out at their house and have a few beers and they would play with their radio controlled cars up and down a dirt and gravel driveway located on a side street off the beaten path in a highly expensive town but in the wrong side of the tracks area. When I casually mentioned I had my application in with local 3, and that I don't know how much longer I'm going to be working with you guys because I saw an ad in the paper paying $16.90 an hour Union wage for a union job doing the exact same electrical wiring work, roping houses and finishing them, switch and base fixtures etc.

The oldest of the two brothers said to me " don't you think you should get some experience first?"
And I replied what the hell does anyone need experience for wiring a house you and me and your brother can do it in our sleep what is five more years of working for s*** wages your dad pays going to make me a better person or do I have to suffer for a certain amount of time making your dad rich? A few years later I ran into the pair in the mall parking lot at the Smith Haven mall, I was wearing my local 3 IBEW corduroy jacket, they were both wearing 1980s members only plastic garbage. I got into my brand new Ford Bronco with a plow on the front all shiny and clean with off-road package 33 in Mickey Thompsons and they got into the same piece of crap they've been driving back when I worked for them. 

You think exactly like they do.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

LGLS said:


> First of all apprentices should not be wiring houses. Apprentices should be working with the journeyman who teach them exactly how to do everything right until they know it. You just tipped your hat buddy the reason why you think other people can't wire a house to code is because you're using apprentices inappropriately and they're not apprentices so stop using the word you're even using that wrong. You're not training them, and you're expecting production out of them and to make money off them by selling them out and farming them out as actual electricians. I learned residential wiring in tech school when I was in the 10th grade. In the 11th grade I moved on to Commercial and Industrial. The industrial book was three times thicker than the residential book and twice as thick is commercial. I was the only one who started the motor controls chapter in the last 10 years that the teacher had been teaching this these courses.
> 
> When I got my first non-union job wiring houses, they were paying me five bucks an hour. The two other " electricians "? We're making $20 an hour doing the exact same thing I was doing, each of us in a separate house. My work was every bit as much if not better than theirs. They also could not understand how I roped out three-way switches because they only knew how to do it by feeding one end then going to the switch and then going to the light.
> 
> ...


Ease up there hot rod, you were doing ok until the crack about Members Only jackets. I expect a retraction from you about the ultimate cool attire.


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## smiley64 (Mar 25, 2013)

In Dane County WI 4 journeyman of 5 -11 years $26 - $34, better than average benefits. Tolerance to arriving late, unexpected abscence 1.5 days a month, 37 hour work week. Can be left alone but cannot function well for days at a time without supervision.


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

Mickey Thompsons or Members Only, thats the measure of success?

I would put more value in knowing what cartridges belong in a pullout fuseholder. Or wether they were fuse cartridges or splice connectors. But that’s just me. It’s no wonder I didn’t sign up with the best of the best.


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## R777V (May 16, 2016)

In Chicago area Local 134 IBEW I think is 52$ Journeyman Rate. Working commercial industrial for UAL Teamsters Local 781 we are 50.89$ after 20 years 1.60 less prior to longevity pay. We top out though with 7 weeks vacation 6 paid holidays that have an option to float, and 4 floating holidays on day one. At 25 years I am at 6 weeks but really it’s with 10 floating holidays on top. 6 weeks and 10 days. 1 sick day and 1 occupational day per month accumulating, flight benefits, jacked up pension due to bankruptcy, but job is easy. Took every bit of 10 years to get regular day shift, but at 20 I got my “retirement” job. In the end I was happy going union just not sure I would have gone Teamster. I would maybe have gone the utility route. My old man did and he loved his job, course his exposure to PCB’s back in the day gave him cancer and he isn’t around anymore. Airline work has tons of overtime and they are shortening progressions. Unfortunately don’t expect a regular apprenticeship as there is only OTJ training, also you need 2-3 years experience. Current progression is 8 years, but all the airlines are hurting to find good Facilities Mechanics (industrial electricians). Nobody wants to work rotating days, midnights, holidays, and weekends. Tons of overtime though. They do have some flexibility once you are in for a while. Like I said took me 25 years to get in my gravy job. Still I’ve worked non union and that is **** around Chicago at least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

pokeytwo said:


> Sorry Slay301, I started in heavy industrial running 4” rigid in Class 1 div 2. Done commercial, avoided resi like the plague other than side jobs. Always preferred industrial - union or non over the others. Each to their own but must say I seldom found someone who started in resi or commercial on an industrial project. Been retired for a while, sorta, but there was only one ticket in my day. Now one needs a ticket to tie one’s shoes and another to zip one’s pants.
> Good hearted banter between the branches is a good thing, IMHO
> 
> Sorry if industrial guys aren’t welcome here. It’s just a branch of the trade, right?


I hear that brother. There’s only one ticket that matters to me and that’s the A card in my back pocket


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

LGLS said:


> First of all apprentices should not be wiring houses. Apprentices should be working with the journeyman who teach them exactly how to do everything right until they know it. You just tipped your hat buddy the reason why you think other people can't wire a house to code is because you're using apprentices inappropriately and they're not apprentices so stop using the word you're even using that wrong. You're not training them, and you're expecting production out of them and to make money off them by selling them out and farming them out as actual electricians. I learned residential wiring in tech school when I was in the 10th grade. In the 11th grade I moved on to Commercial and Industrial. The industrial book was three times thicker than the residential book and twice as thick is commercial. I was the only one who started the motor controls chapter in the last 10 years that the teacher had been teaching this these courses.
> 
> When I got my first non-union job wiring houses, they were paying me five bucks an hour. The two other " electricians "? We're making $20 an hour doing the exact same thing I was doing, each of us in a separate house. My work was every bit as much if not better than theirs. They also could not understand how I roped out three-way switches because they only knew how to do it by feeding one end then going to the switch and then going to the light.
> 
> ...


Dude honestly I’m so jelly of you. So cool


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## d2043 (Nov 12, 2013)

Motoman0120 said:


> Hey guys, just a quick question
> 
> what should the hourly rate be on a 19 year resdential journeyman, non union in todays times. Wisconsin
> 
> thanks in advance!


At minimum I would say $30


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> Ease up there hot rod, you were doing ok until the crack about Members Only jackets. I expect a retraction from you about the ultimate cool attire.


A thousand pardons sir... and I STILL own mine, and 2 pair of 2-tone jeans.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

smiley64 said:


> In Dane County WI 4 journeyman of 5 -11 years $26 - $34, better than average benefits. Tolerance to arriving late, unexpected abscence 1.5 days a month, 37 hour work week. Can be left alone but cannot function well for days at a time without supervision.


Who'd want to live in that Scott Walker craphole?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I'm not surprised you don't get it. I'm difficult to understand for simpleton.



CMP said:


> Mickey Thompsons or Members Only, thats the measure of success?
> 
> I would put more value in knowing what cartridges belong in a pullout fuseholder. Or wether they were fuse cartridges or splice connectors. But that’s just me. It’s no wonder I didn’t sign up with the best of the best.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I'm


CMP said:


> Mickey Thompsons or Members Only, thats the measure of success?
> 
> I would put more value in knowing what cartridges belong in a pullout fuseholder. Or wether they were fuse cartridges or splice connectors. But that’s just me. It’s no wonder I didn’t sign up with the best of the best.


The fact that you put MORE VALUE on fuseholder knowledge and apparently believe it your swag is quite disturbing .


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Slay301 said:


> Dude honestly I’m so jelly of you. So cool


Me too!!!


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## R777V (May 16, 2016)

I would actually be impressed to see someone rockin out a members only jacket! They haven’t been sold new for north of 35 years!!!


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