# Wire ferrules in residential wiring



## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

Hi guys, got a quick question. So I have wired up a couple of metal shops on the side. These are “under the table” jobs and don’t require an inspection of any kind but all the work I do, I want to do to NEC code. So being these are metal shop buildings and I am not great at bending metal conduit yet, I have used the gray pvc conduit in the past. I use 12 gauge stranded wire to make pulls easier. My question is, for devices such as receptacles with the wire plug hole in the back, can I use wire ferrules such as these https://www.amazon.com/Ferrule-Crim...e&qid=1554147473&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1, on devices that only require one or two wires to be connected, rather than using fork terminals? I am wanting to know if this is code compliant, as for me the ferrules are a tad easier to use and are a little cheaper than buying fork terminals. Thanks for any advice as I’m trying to expand my knowledge in the electrical field.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Ibtl


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I would use a headway. Much easier in this situation !!


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Just buy the forks and stop complicating it.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I don’t have much experience on the terminating side of things to help. 

I do know that when you start to use EMT make sure you use 3/4” inch. For some reason the 1/2” inch seems to make the circuit draw more. A guy in Cali taught me that.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

HertzHound said:


> I don’t have much experience on the terminating side of things to help.
> 
> I do know that when you start to use EMT make sure you use 3/4” inch. For some reason the 1/2” inch seems to make the circuit draw more. A guy in Cali taught me that.


It's because it acts like a choke. Inductors will play havoc with your circuits, and are a known hazard !


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

If your using #12 stranded wire just use the 14 gauge notch on the stripper. Then it should fit the hole without the ferrule. Just strip it short so the wire doesn’t have the tendency to fold over when you are trying to push it in. 

Always use black tape to wrap the plug with. 

Are you going to use a fork on the green screw?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I want to see the rule that says side jobs don’t need to be inspected (since you want to be compliant and all that).


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

All this talk about forks is making me hungry.


Tim.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Let me get this straight: This dude wants to back stab devices with ferrule connectors? Excuse me while I vomit.


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

99cents said:


> Let me get this straight: This dude wants to back stab devices with ferrule connectors? Excuse me while I vomit.



I don't think that he wants to back stab them because he mentioned using forks previously. I think that he wants to use a ferrule underneath the screw for some odd reason. 



Imagine the things they'd find if one of these jobs was actually inspected?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Luke1782178 said:


> My question is, for devices such as receptacles *with the wire plug hole in the back*, can I use wire ferrules such as these





TheLivingBubba said:


> I don't think that he wants to back stab them because he mentioned using forks previously. I think that he wants to use a ferrule underneath the screw for some odd reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the things they'd find if one of these jobs was actually inspected?


I'm with 99 ... backstabbin'


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

emtnut said:


> I'm with 99 ... backstabbin'


That’s what I thought he meant by the wire plug hole in the back.

I have never said it before but I will say it now:

IBTL


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

My bad, I thought you were one of the regulars trying out a new screen name to spice the place up. Don’t go by anything I said. 

Not even the black tape:vs_laugh:

And I had a nice one in my head for my next response. 

Oh well. Don’t get discouraged with the forum. They are looking for new guys to help drive up the posts.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Doesn't April fools stop at noon


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

emtnut said:


> I'm with 99 ... backstabbin'





EMT & 99, I think I'm with you guys now, I re-read it and just can't understand why anyone would want to back stab with a ferrule. 




Luke1782178 said:


> on devices that only require one or two wires to be connected, rather than using fork terminals?



More so, what device would only require one wire?


IBTL


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

This question cant be real and has to be an April Fools joke...…..I hope so anyway but you never know since this guy clearly isn't an electrician


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

You could try these, but that would really break the bank. Made by Hubbell. Those with som Wagos. No need for black tape.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm just disappointed that the OP didn't ask me what a headway was :sad:


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

Love all the pricks in this forum. Never stated anywhere that I was an electrician, I am learning to be one. I guess none of you ever had questions when you were apprentices and wanted advice from elders who had knowledge in the field. It was a simple question, were they compliant or not. I’m not referring to the holes like on the back of 15 amp receptacles. I was referring to the one that is on the 20 amp receptacles I use, that the same screw that is used to wrap around when using solid wire, also clamps/compresses whatever is in this hole. 
I understand most of you are seasoned electricians, but folks like you who give responses like these are keeping the younger generation from getting into the trade. Thanks for the few answers that actually helped me out. All I needed to here was that the correct application for ferrules is not in the residential aspect, but to keep using the fork terminals to terminate on the screw of the receptacles.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Luke1782178 said:


> I understand most of you are seasoned electricians, but folks like you who give responses like these are keeping the younger generation from getting into the trade.


We prefer to keep people like you out of the trade.


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

MTW, and why is this?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Actually, this is no place for an apprentice to ask for advice on a non-permitted side job.

If you’re using devices with compression plates, why would you use ferrule terminations? Makes no sense.

You are clearly out of your element with this work and should stop. Immediately.

You’re a poor representative for the younger generation if you’re breaking rules and putting your customer (and yourself) in danger because of incompetence.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Luke1782178 said:


> MTW, and why is this?


Because you’re unqualified. I can argue with MTW but that’s okay because we are both licensed, experienced people. You’re not.

An apprentice’s job is to work under the supervision of a journeyman. There’s no room for argument on the subject.

If you were working under a journeyman you wouldn’t be looking for internet advice.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Luke1782178 said:


> Never stated anywhere that I was an electrician





Luke1782178 said:


> I have wired up a couple of metal shops


 lain:


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

99cents, if anything I have said makes you think I am arguing with you I am sorry. I was merely asking a question, and was hoping for a straight forward answer. Not to be told I am incompetent, and should get out of the field just because I am asking a question. I am currently working for a large company doing mostly working on industrial electronics, while also doing side work with a licensed electrician. I have learned a lot through him, but I also like hearing others opinions on matters so I have multiple vantage points on how to view things. Sorry for asking a simple question.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Luke1782178 said:


> 99cents, if anything I have said makes you think I am arguing with you I am sorry. I was merely asking a question, and was hoping for a straight forward answer. Not to be told I am incompetent, and should get out of the field just because I am asking a question. I am currently working for a large company doing mostly working on industrial electronics, while also doing side work with a licensed electrician. I have learned a lot through him, but I also like hearing others opinions on matters so I have multiple vantage points on how to view things. Sorry for asking a simple question.


You left the distinct impression that you were working on your own on an unpermitted side job. What do you expect when you come to a forum dedicated to qualified tradesmen and contractors? We love helping apprentices here but not those who are moonlighting “under the table”.


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

I apologize for seeming like an arrogant beginner. I’ll get off the site and ask local electricians, and instructors from my community college. Thanks for the responses, and I apologize for wasting anyone’s time.


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

I guess I am working on my own on an unpermitted job site, but I do have a licensed electrician check behind me to ensure the work I am doing is in fact acceptable and safe for everyone involved.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Luke1782178 said:


> I apologize for seeming like an arrogant beginner. I’ll get off the site and ask local electricians, and instructors from my community college. Thanks for the responses, and I apologize for wasting anyone’s time.


I’ve got a better idea. Stop wiring up buildings until you become an electrician.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Luke1782178 said:


> I guess I am working on my own on an unpermitted job site, but I do have a licensed electrician check behind me to ensure the work I am doing is in fact acceptable and safe for everyone involved.


Sure you do. We definitely believe that. You should ask this fictitious licensed electrician about terminating stranded wire.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Oh cut the kid a break, will ya? Like none of you licensed contractors ever moonlighted back in the day? :biggrin:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Oh cut the kid a break, will ya? Like none of you licensed contractors ever moonlighted back in the day? :biggrin:


Of course we did. I started doing jobs on my own at 18 long before I had a license. But I guarantee none of us ever asked questions like the OP did.


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

Was asking if you could terminate a stranded wire really that bad of a question? I have never used one to terminate wires in anything but a control cabinet for industrial electronics, but was curious if it could be used in this application. The only way I have ever terminated a stranded wire at a receptacle or light switch before has been with a fork terminal. What is so bad about using a wire ferrule? No one has really stated why it isn’t acceptable, just said I was incompetent for asking if you could use them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Oh cut the kid a break, will ya? Like none of you licensed contractors ever moonlighted back in the day? :biggrin:


 We never wired up multiple metal shops before we knew how to terminate stranded wire or bend EMT.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Luke1782178 said:


> Was asking if you could terminate a stranded wire really that bad of a question? I have never used one to terminate wires in anything but a control cabinet for industrial electronics, but was curious if it could be used in this application. The only way I have ever terminated a stranded wire at a receptacle or light switch before has been with a fork terminal. What is so bad about using a wire ferrule? No one has really stated why it isn’t acceptable, just said I was incompetent for asking if you could use them.


.

You were talking about “plug in holes” which can only mean one thing - push-in connections to the device. These are a source of failure over time and, besides that, you will never push a #12 ferrule into the hole. Then you talked about compression plate terminations which are fine with stranded wire.

If you want to do side work, hang ceiling fans for grandma and leave the real electrical work for those who know what they’re doing.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

MTW said:


> Of course we did. I started doing jobs on my own at 18 long before I had a license. But I guarantee none of us ever asked questions like the OP did.



I figured you're my age or older, in which case there was no internet to ask. :biggrin:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

HackWork said:


> We never wired up multiple metal shops before we knew how to terminate stranded wire or bend EMT.



When you think about it - better to cut your teeth in a metal shop with EMT than have smouldering splices inside a residence. Kid better learn how to bend though.


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

If you can't take the razzing on here, you are going to have a hard time when I do it to your face with much more descriptive language.


Toughen up a bit and ask your journeyman.


Tim


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Luke, if the device you want to connect to has a screw that requires the wire to be wrapped around, then no, you can't wrap a ferrule around a screw. If the device has clamping plate that accept a solid wire in a straight orientation, then by all means use a ferrule to make a stranded wire into a solid wire. That's what they are for.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

joe-nwt said:


> Luke, if the device you want to connect to has a screw that requires the wire to be wrapped around, then no, you can't wrap a ferrule around a screw. *If the device has clamping plate that accept a solid wire in a straight orientation, then by all means use a ferrule to make a stranded wire into a solid wire. That's what they are for.*


If it has a clamping plate, why not just clamp onto the stranded wire?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

eddy current said:


> If it has a clamping plate, why not just clamp onto the stranded wire?


Because it makes sense?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eddy current said:


> If it has a clamping plate, why not just clamp onto the stranded wire?


These are the simple things that you learn well before wiring up a metal shop on your own.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

eddy current said:


> If it has a clamping plate, why not just clamp onto the stranded wire?


Didn't say he couldn't. Maybe he wants to buy more tools........


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Am I the only one here still wondering what a ferrule is and how it’s used on a device?


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Am I the only one here still wondering what a ferrule is and how it’s used on a device?



Hack, a ferrule is just a mini term like a fork, a ring, or a butt connector that gets crimped on the end of a stranded wire to make it like a solid wire. I haven't really ever used them as I think forks are easier and even then I only use those in peckerheads for the ground. On a receptacle I don't think anyone would ever use one.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Am I the only one here still wondering what a ferrule is and how it’s used on a device?


Yes. Yes you are.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

They keep stray strands from happening. Particularly useful in terminal blocks or electronic equipment where the terminals are very close together and fine stranded wire is being used. Try one on a 22awg stranded going into a sensor terminal block and see if you don't grow to like them. 

Though there's no reason one couldn't use them on any stranded wire where you don't need to wrap the wire around a screw. They even have doubles where you can crimp two wires together into one ferrule.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Just wanted to test my pic posting privileges now that I have enough posts.:wink:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I have never seen those before.

The ones that the OP linked to aren't rated for the voltage he is using.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I couldn't find any rating info. Care to share?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

joe-nwt said:


> I couldn't find any rating info. Care to share?


There is no rating. They are cheap Amazon crap.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Do the ferrules have a listing ? I would think they would be expensive if AMP or T&B made them


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

HackWork said:


> There is no rating. They are cheap Amazon crap.


Well then Luke, unless they are approved for use in your jurisdiction, you shouldn't use the Sopoby ones. There are many manufactures that have approved ferrules, some up to 600V.

They are not expensive either.


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

electricguy said:


> Do the ferrules have a listing ? I would think they would be expensive if AMP or T&B made them



It looks like they do. http://www.ferrulesdirect.com/electrical/INFERR.htm


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

A real tradesman would whip out the torch and solder pot. Leave the Playskool ferrules with the those butt pirates in Europe.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

CE is not an accepted mark in Canada that is some European thing 

https://www.technicalsafetybc.ca/alerts/approved-certification-marks-electrical-products


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

CoolWill said:


> A real tradesman would whip out the torch and solder pot. Leave the Playskool ferrules with the those butt pirates in Europe.



lol I have heard of butt connectors


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

electricguy said:


> CE is not an accepted mark in Canada that is some European thing
> 
> https://www.technicalsafetybc.ca/alerts/approved-certification-marks-electrical-products



Those are UL listed, but not UL Canada, but I'm sure there are rated ones out there for the land of snow and syrup.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

TheLivingBubba said:


> Those are UL listed, but not UL Canada, but I'm sure there are rated ones out there for the land of snow and syrup.



I see I had to scroll to the bottom of the page to click the UL info wonder why it isnt at the top like the other info


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

joe-nwt said:


> They keep stray strands from happening. Particularly useful in terminal blocks or electronic equipment where the terminals are very close together and fine stranded wire is being used. Try one on a 22awg stranded going into a sensor terminal block and see if you don't grow to like them.
> 
> Though there's no reason one couldn't use them on any stranded wire where you don't need to wrap the wire around a screw. They even have doubles where you can crimp two wires together into one ferrule.



This is what I was trying to ask. I’m not saying I use the ones on Amazon, that’s just what came up with a simple google search. At my job we work in control cabinets all the time and we use these to prevent stray wires, and I was just curious if anyone does, or if they could be used in instances like when using stranded wire to help contain the stray wires. 

I should have worded my original question to ask: Is it acceptable if I use the proper crimpers, with properly rated ferrules for my application, to crimp a wire ferrule on a piece of 12 gauge stranded wire to prevent stray wires and the insert said crimped ferrule connection into the crimp plate of the 20 amp receptacle. I understand that you can just insert the stranded wire into the crimp plate, as well as use fork terminals to also properly terminate the connections, but I was just curious if this was another acceptable form of wire termination. Must not be used very often in residential. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for understanding what I was asking.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Luke1782178 said:


> This is what I was trying to ask. I’m not saying I use the ones on Amazon, that’s just what came up with a simple google search. At my job we work in control cabinets all the time and we use these to prevent stray wires, and I was just curious if anyone does, or if they could be used in instances like when using stranded wire to help contain the stray wires.
> 
> I should have worded my original question to ask: Is it acceptable if I use the proper crimpers, with properly rated ferrules for my application, to crimp a wire ferrule on a piece of 12 gauge stranded wire to prevent stray wires and the insert said crimped ferrule connection into the crimp plate of the 20 amp receptacle. I understand that you can just insert the stranded wire into the crimp plate, as well as use fork terminals to also properly terminate the connections, but I was just curious if this was another acceptable form of wire termination. Must not be used very often in residential. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for understanding what I was asking.


There is no reason to use the ferrule. I never really used the fork terminals either.

The best method is to use the higher grade outlets that have the hole and pressure plate, just stick the stranded wire in, it will make an excellent connection.

If you have normal outlets, then you can wrap the stranded wire around the screw. Use your strippers to make the cut into the wire about 2" down from the end, then pull that insulation up to expose only about 3/4" of copper wire. Wrap that around the screw and hold the loop tightly while tightening down the screw. Once it's tight, use your ***** to cut off that extra wire. Done. I've done this thousands of times with no issue. But in this situation I will usually wrap the outlet with tape just to ensure a stray strand doesn't pop out.


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## Luke1782178 (Apr 1, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Luke1782178 said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I was trying to ask. I’m not saying I use the ones on Amazon, that’s just what came up with a simple google search. At my job we work in control cabinets all the time and we use these to prevent stray wires, and I was just curious if anyone does, or if they could be used in instances like when using stranded wire to help contain the stray wires.
> ...



In school I had been told that you could not wrap a stranded wire around a screw under any circumstances, and at my work they always use the fork terminals when wiring up receptacles and light switches. Thank you for clarifying. Does the same go for the ground screw? I have always used the fork terminals on the outlets that do not have the compression plate.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Luke1782178 said:


> In school I had been told that you could not wrap a stranded wire around a screw under any circumstances


 When people say things like this, if they don't say the reason why it then becomes your duty to ask. 

Code, listing, or just opinion? 



> and at my work they always use the fork terminals when wiring up receptacles and light switches. Thank you for clarifying. Does the same go for the ground screw? I have always used the fork terminals on the outlets that do not have the compression plate.


Like I said, I never really used the fork terminals. Most of the time they would be better outlets with pressure plates. When they weren't I would wrap the wire.


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## FaultCurrent (May 13, 2014)

*Hide*

Kid you just have to grow a little hide if you are going to be in the construction industry. Mr. Know-it-all's, they are everywhere, even on this site. They are always anxious to show you how much they know, so don't get embroiled with them. Just look over their replies for the grains of truth. Fortunately, there are many helpful men on this site with tons of great experience, so just sort through and have a good laugh at the puns from the wise guys and don't take it too serious. 

As far as your question, use what ever works for you, as long as it is listed by UL (or other US agencies) for the purpose. The stuff sold on Amazon is often NFG so use at your own risk. 

Doing side jobs is something we all have done. But be advised even if you are bootlegging all work should be done to code. Liability wise, and if you get caught you can get a permit and have the job pass without a major redo.

Hack is right, if using stranded wire get the devices that have the screw and square washer that will be spiffy for catching all the strands. Or use the fork terminal but those can be a PITA if doing a lot of receptacles.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

In a pinch I would wrap stranded around the screw. I would do it the way Hack described. Also when you strip off the insulation, and you stop just before it comes off, twist the strands counter clockwise real tight. It helps keep the stands from loosening up when you wrap it clockwise around the screw. 

I wouldn’t want to do a bunch like that. Not because I think it’s bad. But because of time. If it takes longer to get some forks, then I would do it. 

You did good holding your own too by the way.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

The NEC allows you to wrap stranded wire around a screw on a receptacle?


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

eddy current said:


> The NEC allows you to wrap stranded wire around a screw on a receptacle?


Are you suggesting the CEC doesn't? 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

The fork terminals are alright. If you reverse the twist of the strands and wrap the wire the right way (around the direction of rotation), the screws hold the stranded quite well. No idea about code or the UL listings on the screws. Also, don't mind these guys. They gave me the same grilling the first time I posted here. Glad to have you and help you learn along the way. Be careful with that side work, though. A mistake because you don't know any better can end your career for good. Also, here is some more info on the subject from over at Mike Holt forums:

https://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=141189


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> Are you suggesting the CEC doesn't?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Kind of, but not really. It’s one of those codes that can be argued forever and should be more clear IMO. 12-116(2) and (3) 

I guess it is how you interpret the code, but it is a rule used by many to say stranded can not be used under a screw, including P.S.Knight. (See his interpretation of this code with illustrations in his simplified book)

Personally I believe as long as the stranded wire is terminated in a manner that confines all the strands so no stray ones stick out (many examples of how to accomplish that are in this thread) then your fine.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

sparkiez said:


> The fork terminals are alright. If you reverse the twist of the strands and wrap the wire the right way (around the direction of rotation), the screws hold the stranded quite well. No idea about code or the UL listings on the screws. Also, don't mind these guys. They gave me the same grilling the first time I posted here. Glad to have you and help you learn along the way. Be careful with that side work, though. A mistake because you don't know any better can end your career for good. Also, here is some more info on the subject from over at Mike Holt forums:
> 
> https://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=141189


That's my method. I counter clockwise twist the strands, wrap it around the screw, pinch the loop closed, and keep tension on the wire while I tighten down the screw. I''ve installed hundreds of thousands that way with nary a problem. I don't know that I've used forks on them. Probably early on before I got the hang of it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> That's my method. I counter clockwise twist the strands, wrap it around the screw, pinch the loop closed, and keep tension on the wire while I tighten down the screw. I''ve installed hundreds of thousands that way with nary a problem. I don't know that I've used forks on them. Probably early on before I got the hang of it.


I have never twisted the conductor in the opposite direction. I have heard about it, but I believe it's the same as hearing that the neutral hurts more. I'm not saying that it is wrong, just that I don't believe it until I see the science behind it.

IMO, keeping the strands twisted as tightly as possible is the best option to keep them contained, and keeping the factory twist does that best. 

Either way, pinching the loop closed while tightening keeps them all where they need to be.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

eddy current said:


> Kind of, but not really. It’s one of those codes that can be argued forever and should be more clear IMO. 12-116(2) and (3)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On an unrelated note, I was surprised to note yesterday while researching this subject that the rule saying the loop has to go clockwise around the screw only applies to aluminum conductors. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I have never twisted the conductor in the opposite direction. I have heard about it, but I believe it's the same as hearing that the neutral hurts more. I'm not saying that it is wrong, just that I don't believe it until I see the science behind it.
> 
> IMO, keeping the strands twisted as tightly as possible is the best option to keep them contained, and keeping the factory twist does that best.
> 
> Either way, pinching the loop closed while tightening keeps them all where they need to be.


It isn't really science, but more like geometry. By reversing the rotation of the strands, as you tighten the screw, the wire strands want to move tangentially to the screw. By reversing the strands, that tangential motion as you tighten is in a spot that is parallel and in the same direction of the wire itself rather an on the opposite end of the screw, thus helping with the issue of the strands splaying out as you tighten.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sparkiez said:


> It isn't really science, but more like geometry. By reversing the rotation of the strands, as you tighten the screw, the wire strands want to move tangentially to the screw. By reversing the strands, that tangential motion as you tighten is in a spot that is parallel and in the same direction of the wire itself rather an on the opposite end of the screw, thus helping with the issue of the strands splaying out as you tighten.


 I’m still not seeing it. The rotation of the screw and of the wire are on two completely different planes and I’m not seeing how one has anything to do with the other.


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

use solid wire.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I use backwired receptacles with stranded wire.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I’m still not seeing it. The rotation of the screw and of the wire are on two completely different planes and I’m not seeing how one has anything to do with the other.


That is alright. You made it this far without seeing it :glasses:


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## d2043 (Nov 12, 2013)

Pigtail the connection with a wire nut and use 12 solid to the device.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

*Thanks for any advice as I’m trying to expand my knowledge in the electrical field.*

Doing substandard work on the side is not how you"expand your Knowledge" and I for one will definitely not help you do this. It is very easy to tell you really have no idea what you are doing yet. 
You have insurance right? (roadhouse quote right there)


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

sparkiez said:


> It isn't really science, but more like geometry. By reversing the rotation of the strands, as you tighten the screw, the wire strands want to move tangentially to the screw. By reversing the strands, that tangential motion as you tighten is in a spot that is parallel and in the same direction of the wire itself rather an on the opposite end of the screw, thus helping with the issue of the strands splaying out as you tighten.


He is right hax. If you twist the wires in the opposite direction they tighten up better.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> He is right hax. If you twist the wires in the opposite direction they tighten up better.


I'm not denying it, I just don't understand how.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> He is right hax. If you twist the wires in the opposite direction they tighten up better.



ENGLISH translation please. Oh, I know all about it, I just don't understand big math words........


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't do it though. I just strip back a way and leave the insulation on to keep it all together.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I'm not denying it, I just don't understand how.


By reverse twisting the strands they don't splay as much when you tighten down the screw. They tend to hold together tighter. I've tried it about every way there is that I have heard of, and it's the method that has worked for me for hundreds or low thousands of devices. By being careful I'm sure every method works just fine though.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> I don't do it though. I just strip back a way and leave the insulation on to keep it all together.


Let your Uncle macmikeysan teach you the best way to do what you are doing. Put the strippers 3/4" down from the end of the wire, squeeze and gently pull the strippers towards the end, but stop when you reach 1/4" left to go. Wrap the screw. The insulation is still on for the remaining 1/4" of the end of the wire and there is a half inch piece of empty insulation that will help to keep the wire ends from shorting to a box or some other bad thingy.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Let your Uncle macmikeysan teach you the best way to do what you are doing. Put the strippers 3/4" down from the end of the wire, squeeze and gently pull the strippers towards the end, but stop when you reach 1/4" left to go. Wrap the screw. The insulation is still on for the remaining 1/4" of the end of the wire and there is a half inch piece of empty insulation that will help to keep the wire ends from shorting to a box or some other bad thingy.


Good ol' Hax already told them about that a couple pages ago. But he always uses ***** to cut off the excess conductor after it's tightened down. 

Leaving the excess conductor can become an issue if that little piece of insulation pulls off, such as when shaping it into the box or when working on the device next to it.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

If you make an X with the wires it allows you to draw it tighter and it holds it better as you tighten the screw.


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