# 210.12 (A)........Bathrooms? 2014 NEC.



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Give 'em time.............. give 'em time...........

Soon, *everything* will be AFCI'd, GFCI'd, RFID'd, CIA'd, KGB'd,...............


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Give 'em time.............. give 'em time...........
> 
> Soon, *everything* will be AFCI'd, GFCI'd, RFID'd, CIA'd, KGB'd,...............


I just sold a bathroom home run with an AFCI breaker, then re-reading 210.12 realized it's not required.

I think I'll just leave the price alone though...:whistling2::laughing:


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## CFL (Jan 28, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> Anyone know why AFCI's are not required for bathroom circuits?
> 
> 
> With them being required in kitchens you have the same type of motor loads such as exhaust fans, something is not making sense here:blink:


sssshhhhhhhh!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> I just sold a bathroom home run with an AFCI breaker, then re-reading 210.12 realized it's not required.
> 
> I think I'll just leave the price alone though...:whistling2::laughing:


Then again, maybe your client will _sh&t lightning_ , and be grateful you did .....:jester: ~CS~


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

The bathroom may very well become afci in the next code cycle.
When the CPSC, the Panel manufactures, and the NEC code panels came up with the afci and where to install them it was determined to do all 125 volt 15 & 20 ampere circuits in a dwelling.
The code panels thought it best to phase them in over time, like what was done in the 70's for GFCI.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> Anyone know why AFCI's are not required for bathroom circuits?
> 
> 
> With them being required in kitchens you have the same type of motor loads such as exhaust fans, something is not making sense here:blink:


My guess is that they don't want lights kicking off in the middle of a shower where someone can fall easily and get hurt in the shower. I am sure it is a safety issue.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Cause Eaton needs to pay off the NFPA first before they'll add more again.

Sent from my C5215 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> My guess is that they don't want lights kicking off in the middle of a shower where someone can fall easily and get hurt in the shower. I am sure it is a safety issue.


So what makes that different then the lights going off while handling hot pots of boiling liquid in a kitchen ?

It is a matter of areas being phased in over time


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

When are the manufacturers going to just make AFCI/GFCI mains?


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

AllWIRES said:


> When are the manufacturers going to just make AFCI/GFCI mains?


They never will because it will cost them too much.


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Black Dog said:


> They never will because it will cost them too much.


They had to make afci and gfci breakers and I'm sure that increased the cost of manufacturing from simple overload. To manufacture one breaker to monitor the entire buss would be cost effect for them. It seems to me that making multiple pieces is more then making one piece. So if they throw a 200a afci in the main they could charge slightly less then the cost to buy the same panel with an overload main and fill it with afci breakers. They would make out in the deal IMO. 

Someone is going to come out with it and from that point on Ill choose that company. I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

Once everything is required to be protected of course.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

AllWIRES said:


> When are the manufacturers going to just make AFCI/GFCI mains?


Simple fix- the new Iphone app from Planet macmikeman which allows you to reset the main breaker (sold exclusively at the many supply houses that feature Planet Macmikeman products) using Twitter or Siri..........


'' Siri, that fu* main breaker has shut off again while I'm in the shower, could you reset it please?


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

AllWIRES said:


> When are the manufacturers going to just make AFCI/GFCI mains?






When are we going back to Fuses ?





Pete


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

AllWIRES said:


> When are the manufacturers going to just make AFCI/GFCI mains?


With all the problems with nuisance tripping, would you want the main tripping. I don't think it would be approved for use even if one was made. I don't think you can effectively get the same level of protection that branch circuit afci's offers.


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> With all the problems with nuisance tripping, would you want the main tripping. I don't think it would be approved for use even if one was made. I don't think you can effectively get the same level of protection that branch circuit afci's offers.


Probably right. 

A dreamer can dream anyway.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Sub panel and a 100a 2p combi AFCI? Might be cheaper.. Never thought of it. Would it be compliant?


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Do they even make a 2p 100a AFCI?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Legacyelectric said:


> Do they even make a 2p 100a AFCI?


Nope ..........


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Black Dog said:


> I just sold a bathroom home run with an AFCI breaker, then re-reading 210.12 realized it's not required.


Unless the switch is in outside the bathroom. :thumbsup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Let's hear it for CMP-2!









~CS~


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I would like to see a split bus panel where the lower half is fed from a dp70 amp afci breaker.

Sent from my C5215 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> I would like to see a split bus panel where the lower half is fed from a dp70 amp afci breaker. Sent from my C5215 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


That would be really sweet.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> I would like to see a split bus panel where the lower half is fed from a dp70 amp afci breaker.
> 
> Sent from my C5215 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


Thats somewhat of a good idea, except 1 arc fault will kill all circuits on the split buss. Not that hard to troubleshoot, but much more of an inconvenience than a single circuit kicking off.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> Anyone know why AFCI's are not required for bathroom circuits?
> 
> 
> With them being required in kitchens you have the same type of motor loads such as exhaust fans, something is not making sense here:blink:


You're trying to make sense out of arc fault breakers?


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

Because its gfci protected?

learning to learn


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> They never will because it will cost them too much.


They make more money with a panel full of the wretched things.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

zen said:


> Because its gfci protected? learning to learn


That doesn't matter, 2014 code change wants the dishwasher GFI'd and AFCI'd


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

donaldelectrician said:


> When are we going back to Fuses ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Edison based ones so people will get belted..:laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

donaldelectrician said:


> When are we going back to Fuses ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuses are the best for short circuit protection but they can't give you ground fault protection or the hocus pocus otherwise called arc fault protection.

Funny how the breaker guys took a term like "arcing fault", got on the NFPA bandwagon and twisted it around to sell into the residential market.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

99cents said:


> Fuses are the best for short circuit protection but they can't give you ground fault protection or the hocus pocus otherwise called arc fault protection.
> 
> Funny how the breaker guys took a term like "arcing fault", got on the NFPA bandwagon and twisted it around to sell into the residential market.




99 , I would only put my faith in a Fuse to provide best protection . I have seen
lots of stuck or frozen circuit breakers .

As for the AFCI Breakers . I do not believe the claims made by their makers .

A better grade Receptacle and good wiring practices works for my Cabin .

I care for GFCI Circuits and will use them .



Pete


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