# rough in wire marking



## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

I usually just mark wires with a sharpie during rough in. Im wondering what markings, if any you other sparkys use.

TT=trav trav
TTC=Trav Trav common(used mainly for trav trav switch leg dead ends)
TTN=Trav Trav neut
TTN SEND=Trav Trav Send Neut
TTH=Trav Trav hot
TTH SEND = trav trav send hot
Swith Legs get a notch and in multi gang boxes get marked with the lights "name". 3 wire switch legs always get marked red vent/blk light.
Hots are usually unmarked, unless it's a 3 wire branch or separate circuits in the same box, then i mark circuit names.
Load side of a GFI always gets notched
HTRT= hot return
Where needed I add additional marks like the "name" of the light or the circut.
For the mains I always go red on the right and same with sub feeds.
I haven't used much 4 wire romex so ill probably have to come up with some new markings for that when the time comes.(90 days until we go 2011 nec)
Probably forgot something, but i always try to mark everything


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

forgotflying said:


> I usually just mark wires with a sharpie during rough in. Im wondering what markings, if any you other sparkys use.
> 
> TT=trav trav
> TTC=Trav Trav common(used mainly for trav trav switch leg dead ends)
> ...


 



No writing , ANYWHERE necassary in residential. Except we will label our HR's at the panel. Sometimes.


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## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

I agree with McClary, we rarely mark anything other than the arc-fault circuits at the panel


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## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

We just nick the wires with our pliers for what needs to be identified


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

ohiosparky99 said:


> I agree with McClary, we rarely mark anything other than the arc-fault circuits at the panel


So how do you label the panel schedule later on?


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> So how do you label the panel schedule later on?


Process of elimination...


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## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeap, plug test everything and process of elimination


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## Jupe Blue (Aug 18, 2008)

I always label the homeruns and switch legs when doing residential work. I use a sharpie and write in plain English. If I drop dead tonight the next electrician will have some idea which cable goes where.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

I spend maybe about 5 mins out of 8 hour day marking wires and that 5 mins saves me on average 30 mins+ during trim out. Sometimes I wont trim out a house until 6 months to a year after i roughed it in and this is where marking everything really saves me time. Annoys me when people don't identify wires, I don't like spending to much time with ohm(unless the job is time and materials:whistling2. Then there is the if i die factor.


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

forgotflying said:


> I usually just mark wires with a sharpie during rough in. Im wondering what markings, if any you other sparkys use.
> 
> TT=trav trav
> TTC=Trav Trav common(used mainly for trav trav switch leg dead ends)
> ...


So you don't strip the cables and splice the boxes on the rough?

If you made up the boxes at the rough, you don't need to mark anything.


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## knothole (Mar 10, 2007)

tkb said:


> If you made up the boxes at the rough, you don't need to mark anything.


That's the only way I've done it. Don't know any other way....


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

tkb said:


> So you don't strip the cables and splice the boxes on the rough?
> 
> If you made up the boxes at the rough, you don't need to mark anything.


Sometimes I do, in very convoluted situations like fixing some hacks screw ups. Personally I am afraid of drywallers which is why i usually make up my boxes after they come.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

How I make up a box:

Click here.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> How I make up a box:
> 
> Click here.


This is how I do it, but I don't do the squiggly bends on the ends. I like to put a little piece of sheathing on each switch leg labeled with what it controls.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Simple sign language such as stripping switch legs and GFCI loads, twisting travelers and sharp cutting AFCI circuits at panel work fine for me, anything else in my opinion would be a waste of time.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> This is how I do it, but I don't do the squiggly bends on the ends. I like to put a little piece of sheathing on each switch leg labeled with what it controls.



All I'm interested in at that point is keeping the switch legs in L-R or R-L order. Once it's all made up, I really don't need to keep track of which switch controls what.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> All I'm interested in at that point is keeping the switch legs in L-R or R-L order. Once it's all made up, I really don't need to keep track of which switch controls what.


The only reason I do it is because sometimes what I think the sequence should be the customer does not. :tongue_smilie:


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## john120/240 (May 28, 2010)

forgotflying said:


> . Personally I am afraid of drywallers which is why i usually make up my boxes after they come.


What is the advantage of waiting until sheetrock is up to do your box makeup? You have all of that romex jacket to stuff in the box. Makeup 
on rough in, you don't have to wonder what wire is what IMO.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> The only reason I do it is because sometimes what I think the sequence should be the customer does not. :tongue_smilie:


If the sequence is wrong, the customer won't know it until after trim. At that point, it's just swapping the switches.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

forgotflying said:


> Sometimes I do, in very convoluted situations like fixing some hacks screw ups. Personally I am afraid of drywallers which is why i usually make up my boxes after they come.


Our boxes have to be made up before a rough-in inspection or it's a fail. I also mark the switch legs but neutrals, power pigtails and grounds are made up.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

I think I'm going to start making up boxes during rough in and see how that works for me. Just so used to doing the things the way I was trained.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

forgotflying said:


> I think I'm going to start making up boxes during rough in and see how that works for me. Just so used to doing the things the way I was trained.


You would not pass inspection around here if you did not. Inspector wants to see the grounds made up etc. They do not want to open up the boxes after the devices are in place.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

forgotflying said:


> I think I'm going to start making up boxes during rough in....


 That's how I've always done it and I've never had to mark anything.

-John


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

yea that wont fly in NJ. I mark boxes for the most parts except for one or two gangs. Switch legs, three ways, four ways, I try to make sure its marked logically enough so that anyone can finish or cut it in.. Im not always the one to finish off a box. 
I mark out the whole house and all ceiling stuff before anyone even gets to the job. All they have to do is connect the dots and run homeruns.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

I was allways taught " if you need to write on your wires you dont need to be pulling wire" (residential only).. i see alot of guys that do and im good with it,but my guys dont. personally i only mark my sw. legs,with a couple crimps on the end of the wire. everything else should be a sw. leg or traveller in a sw. box. makes it easy to see when you strip the wire. now i also run a sharpie on panel side homeruns for afci and gfci breakers.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You would not pass inspection around here if you did not. Inspector wants to see the grounds made up etc. They do not want to open up the boxes after the devices are in place.


 same here.. i have a competitor(my brother) that never cuts in joints on the rough in, it absolutely kills me because i would worry about dropped feeds sw. legs etc. but it seems to work for him.


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## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

See i was always taught if you don't mark your wires you get fired, but now that i do houses by myself who is gonna know.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

forgotflying said:


> See i was always taught if you don't mark your wires you get fired, but now that i do houses by myself who is gonna know.


 Thats right:thumbsup:.. hard to fire yourself. But if i could I would probably be first on my list:thumbup:


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Make up everything on the rough, label the homeruns at the panel. Crimp the switch legs as im pulling wire. When it comes time to make up the boxes any three ways get the common wrapped around the end of the travelers, and feeds to gfi's get stripped.


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## Teaspoon (Jan 10, 2009)

crazyboy said:


> Make up everything on the rough, label the homeruns at the panel. Crimp the switch legs as im pulling wire. When it comes time to make up the boxes any three ways get the common wrapped around the end of the travelers, and feeds to gfi's get stripped.


 
I make up everything on rough-in,It is required here.
Lable before make-up on boxes.
S.L.= switch leg
Main feed
Feed
3 way
4 way
Lable at panel what the main feed goes to.
Bd.Rm.
Kit.
L.R.
Dine.
Den

Makes life easier for me.


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

The inspectors here are a little more relaxed. I mark what the wires are on the sheathing and tuck them into the box. Cant tell you how many times i went ahead and wired in the box for rough in and had someone cut the crap out of my wires when hanging drywall . Some of these guys must use 3" or 4" bits in their roto-zip or something, i would have the wires stuffed flat to the back of the box and they would get hit and tore up. I have found at least the sheathing protects the wires for the most part. I usually only mark the line coming in and the loads. No reason to mark any travelers.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I do everything on the rough that I can so the finish is just connecting devices..

SP switches get hooks.. 3/way switches get taped together with switch leg.. feed in and feed out gets plugged into a WAGO big enough to take a tail out for each switch..

Grounds get a barrel crimp so each switch has a ground wire..

Switches are cut into the box in the order of what switch gets turned on first to last..

This is a WAGO.. they come up to (8) port..


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## kawaikfx400 (Jul 14, 2008)

*whaa*

The first post is ridiculous, Way to much, We bend over the romex ends for SL's. and write what device its for. 3-wire gets an S3 plus what device or fixture its 3waying. Feeds dont get labeled. Unless ya got more than one feed in a box. Always cut in completely, strip the common on your 3ways. Do up the box for devices. Never pass inspection unless ya cut everything in that will be buried after the rough.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Do you seriously use Wagos that often? The only time I ever use them is when the wires are too short in a box to get a hold of or in a can


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Do you seriously use Wagos that often? The only time I ever use them is when the wires are too short in a box to get a hold of or in a can


Yes.. I use them mostly for feeding switches or in commercial work where a splice box might be used to feed something new being installed..

You don't have to kill the circuit to work with it.. OSHA should like them also.. :thumbsup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> Yes.. I use them mostly for feeding switches or in commercial work where a splice box might be used to feed something new being installed..
> 
> You don't have to kill the circuit to work with it.. OSHA should like them also.. :thumbsup:


Ick. I would cut them off if I worked in the box after you.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Ick. I would cut them off if I worked in the box after you.


Like anything new in our trade.. it has to grow on people..

So far I have not seen one failure or read anywhere that there was a failure..

The guys who installed BX must of thought the same thing when romex came onto the scene..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Like anything new in our trade.. it has to grow on people..
> 
> So far I have not seen one failure or read anywhere that there was a failure..
> 
> The guys who installed BX must of thought the same thing when romex came onto the scene..


Yes that is true .

But i like to cut them off and throw them away anyway..:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> So far I have not seen one failure or read anywhere that there was a failure..


I had a few failures quite aways back. I have since warmed up to them and found a brand I like.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> ..............So far I have not seen one failure or read anywhere that there was a failure.............


You must have a short memory. :whistling2:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Top picture shows switch legs wrapped

Bottom picture kitchen gfi load side wrapped


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You must have a short memory. :whistling2:


That was the fixture manufacture that was the problem.. AKA assembly line installer..

Ken is talking about a HALO can where I pulled on the WAGO and it came off the fixture wire..

HALO is stabbing a #22 stranded wire into a WAGO.. that would be prone to failure and is the reason I test every HALO can I install..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> .........Ken is talking about a HALO can where I pulled on the WAGO and it came off the fixture wire...



Uh, no. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Uh, no. :no:


Then what.. my brain cells gave up..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> Then what.. my brain cells gave up..


The 19 can failures I experienced the first time I every laid eyes on a Wago. Spent the better part of a day tracking them down.

They've been dumpster fodder for me ever since.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> The 19 can failures I experienced the first time I every laid eyes on a Wago. Spent the better part of a day tracking them down.
> 
> They've been dumpster fodder for me ever since.


That is because you did not tug on the WAGO to see if the fixture wire was seated properly..

So far you are the only poster that has had a problem with them..


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Ever can I use has wagos. They fail like everything else does when you don't check them. I only remember one light not working resulting from a wire coming out of the wagos. The others were splices that I had taped together when I ran out of wire nuts.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

B W E said:


> Ever can I use has wagos. They fail like everything else does when you don't check them. I only remember one light not working resulting from a wire coming out of the wagos. The others were splices that I had *taped* together when I ran out of wire nuts.


Only rookies need tape on a wire splicing product.. :no:

Push in and tug..


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## Koda7701 (Jul 27, 2011)

I label almost everything. 
GFCI- Line/Load
Switches- Feed or HI(hot in), HO(hot out), 4w, 3w HSE(hot switched end) HE, SE, End,..specify switch legs (din lt. kit lt. sink lt..etc)
each home run is labled inside the panel
panel/boxes are stuffed/made up on the rough wire. Hots are pigtailed to each switch, allows for easy switch changes in event of faulty switch or dimmer/speed control install.
every wire is traced upon clean up. no misses, no stuffing mistakes, makes for an easy final and test.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> No writing , ANYWHERE necassary in residential. Except we will label our HR's at the panel. Sometimes.



Exactly. Only an amateur marks them........oh and the dolts on home improvement shows that have no business doing electrical work.....


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

forgotflying said:


> I think I'm going to start making up boxes during rough in and see how that works for me. Just so used to doing the things the way I was trained.


whoever trained you that way is nutsack lover.......


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> whoever trained you that way is nutslack lover.......


I make up boxes at rough. Much easier that way, and with the walls open, no chance of getting cables mixed up.

BTW, what's a nutslack?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

B W E said:


> BTW, what's a nutslack?


You never want to get kicked there..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> You never want to get kicked there..


Never use your super whole hawg near there either.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> You never want to get kicked there..


Nah, captain spelling bee said nutsLack. That must be different than a nutsack.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

B W E said:


> Nah, captain spelling bee said nutsLack. That must be different than a nutsack.


Captain spelling bee.. LMAOOOO:laughing::laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> I make up boxes at rough. Much easier that way, and with the walls open, no chance of getting cables mixed up.
> 
> BTW, what's a nutslack?


Hahaha it's a typo.....


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Nah, captain spelling bee said nutsLack. That must be different than a nutsack.


Ok so I made a typo mistake. At least I've never run out of wirenuts and used tape to make a splice and have it fail.......:thumbsup:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Ok so I made a typo mistake. At least I've never run out of wirenuts and used tape to make a splice and have it fail.......:thumbsup:


If you think I was serious, you truly are dumber than you look.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm quite happy to use Wagos on ballast changes, recessed cans, and ground wires. Not sure I'm too comfortable with them on higher current applications just yet, but time will tell I guess.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I'm quite happy to use Wagos on ballast changes, recessed cans, and ground wires. Not sure I'm too comfortable with them on higher current applications just yet, but time will tell I guess.


In a line-ground short, how much current do you think the ground wire is gonna carry?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> In a line-ground short, how much current do you think the ground wire is gonna carry?


Not sure, but probably a lot.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Not sure, but probably a lot.



Try _Available Fault Current_. Could easily run up to 10-15k amps.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Try _Available Fault Current_. Could easily run up to 10-15k amps.


And do you seriously think that the companies that make push-in connectors are not aware of that reality?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> And do you seriously think that the companies that make push-in connectors are not aware of that reality?


:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> And do you seriously think that the companies that make push-in connectors are not aware of that reality?



Yet you won't use Wagos for 'high current' applications? :001_huh:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Yet you won't use Wagos for 'high current' applications? :001_huh:


C'mon, are you really arguing this way? Don't you see the difference between a split second high current event, and sustained levels of current over many years?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> C'mon, are you really arguing this way? Don't you see the difference between a split second high current event, and sustained levels of current over many years?


And do you seriously think that the companies that make push-in connectors are not aware of that reality?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> And do you seriously think that the companies that make push-in connectors are not aware of that reality?


Never mind.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

These WAGO's are rated for #10 wire.. so the company must be secure in selling the product.. http://www.burnstines.com/wago-wall-nut-3-position-red.html

Safe
* +35 years experience with push wire technology
* OSHA recommended to reduce strain
* UL/CSA for up to 600V (1000V for fixtures and signs)"


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> If you think I was serious, you truly are dumber than you look.


Are you going to show us a real pic of yourself so we can see what someone looks like who criticizes another's looks? My guess is no you won't........again......


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Are you going to show us a real pic of yourself so we can see what someone looks like who criticizes another's looks? My guess is no you won't........again......


Sure buddy, fair is fair 

First one is me at the ripe old age of 18, second was a few months ago. Remember, you're "married" so don't do anything with these pictures that you shouldn't be doing.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Sure buddy, fair is fair
> 
> First one is me at the ripe old age of 18, second was a few months ago. Remember, you're "married" so don't do anything with these pictures that you shouldn't be doing.


Hahaha ok Private Pyle.......at least you manned up on that one. But I have to say, you shouldn't be saying anything in reference to how dumb or ugly I look......:no:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Hahaha ok Private Pyle.......at least you manned up on that one. But I have to say, you shouldn't be saying anything in reference to how dumb or ugly I look......:no:


I was actually a PFC in that picture  But I understand, you had to make some stupid remark :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Why does everyone else have a _glass_, and you're not only holding a bottle, but *two* of them? :001_huh:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Why does everyone else have a _glass_, and you're not only holding a bottle, but *two* of them? :001_huh:


It was a wedding, they were drinking wine. I don't drink wine, and it was an open bar.:thumbsup:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Hahaha ok Private Pyle.......at least you manned up on that one. But I have to say, you shouldn't be saying anything in reference to how dumb or ugly I look......:no:


Because it goes without saying, or....??:jester::jester:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> I was actually a PFC in that picture  But I understand, you had to make some stupid remark :thumbsup:


Right, because you didn't just make a stupid remark.....:thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> I was actually a PFC in that picture



As I said.....Private Pyle......or do you not even know what PFC stands for?


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

I have always marked homeruns at the panel except for the obvious runs. No labeling at boxes, I make those up during rough in so all I have to do is pull out the wires and attach the device.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> As I said.....Private Pyle......or do you not even know what PFC stands for?


Are you saying an E-1 is the same as an E-2? Stick to what you know..... Doing sloppy, shoddy work, you wanna be electrician.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Are you saying an E-1 is the same as an E-2? Stick to what you know..... Doing sloppy, shoddy work, you wanna be electrician.


I do happen to know what a PFC is considering I was one. And it's an E-3 not E-2. So would you prefer I called you Private First Class Pyle instead of just Private Pyle? Hahahahaha you can dish it out but can't take it you big *****.......


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> I do happen to know what a PFC is considering I was one. And it's an E-3 not E-2. So would you prefer I called you Private First Class Pyle instead of just Private Pyle? Hahahahaha you can dish it out but can't take it you big *****.......


You're such an idiot..... "I know what a PFC was because I was one.... and it's an E-3 not an E-2." Friggen liar.....


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B W E said:


> You're such an idiot..... "I know what a PFC was because I was one.... and it's an E-3 not an E-2." Friggen liar.....


= Waded panties :laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> You're such an idiot..... "I know what a PFC was because I was one.... and it's an E-3 not an E-2." Friggen liar.....


Yeah I'm such a liar......get over yourself already dude.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Yeah I'm such a liar......get over yourself already dude.
> 
> View attachment 8334


Sorry, not too familiar with Army rank structure.


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## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

:whistling2:


kawaikfx400 said:


> The first post is ridiculous, Way to much, We bend over the romex ends for SL's. and write what device its for. 3-wire gets an S3 plus what device or fixture its 3waying. Feeds dont get labeled. Unless ya got more than one feed in a box. Always cut in completely, strip the common on your 3ways. Do up the box for devices. Never pass inspection unless ya cut everything in that will be buried after the rough.


That is exactly how we do it aswell makes it very easy when it comes time to tie in once the house is completely wired it is very straight forward and simple


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## FCR1988 (Jul 10, 2011)

I usually label SLs and HRs. And Line Load for GFIs. There's only three Americans that I work with the rest are russian. So it's easier that way.


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## stevo1020 (Jul 13, 2011)

What I do is strip the sl's into the box as I pull them and put them into the odd number ko's of the box and put their 3 ways in the same ko. I do the same for feeds but put them in the even number kos. Very easy to when time to make-up and time saving(in my opinion). As for hr's, I never label them, just when time to label panel, use the process of elimination method. It doesn't take that long when you are the one who wires the house. Of course, I am the only employee, so I could see the point of labeling for larger companies.


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## 230cc (Aug 11, 2011)

*electrian folklore*



mcclary's electrical said:


> No writing , ANYWHERE necassary in residential. Except we will label our HR's at the panel. Sometimes.


i was not working at our firm at the time...these guys tell of a helper who was known for making some bad connections at the finals...he made the mistake of implying we were a "slop shop" as his previous shop labled all wires...some of the rough crews caught wind of his lame excuses and started labeling the wires "dave, this wire goes in your mouth, this wire goes in your *ss etc, etc... i can not say this is a true story as it sounds like folklure, but my guys rehash this story anytime somebody labels something...


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## PureElectric (Aug 5, 2011)

DONT BE A HACK, ALWAYS LABEL YOUR WIRES. The best electricains always are the most organized and have the best tools>


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