# One of the WORST violations I have EVER seen!



## Speedy Petey

This was at a newly built cabin. This panel feeds two outbuildings. 
This place was riddled with handyman hack violations and unbelievably poor workmanship.

This is criminal!!!


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## 480sparky

I hope you find the hack that did this and beat the chit out of him.



Oh, wait.


That's _my_ work.



Uh, Speedy, I hope you never find the hack that did that....​


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## Speedy Petey

480sparky said:


>


This is exactly what I did when I opened this thing this morning.


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## BuzzKill

eh, some super 33 and you're good to go


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## BuzzKill

could you imagine opening that panel and hitting one of those split bolts? Daaaaamn.


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## ryanapplequist

Correct me if im wrong. Those are ground rod clamps on those wires ?


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## 480sparky

ryanapplequist said:


> Correct me if im wrong. Those are ground rod clamps on those wires ?


Split bolts.


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## ryanapplequist

Sparky teach me something new. What is the function of a split bolt ? It is being used correctly in the photo ? Also was i wrong in the past to have used these as ground rod clamps ? If so i was just doing what i was told. Thanks for any advice you could give me to help further my knowledge.


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## 480sparky

ryanapplequist said:


> Sparky teach me something new. What is the function of a split bolt ? It is being used correctly in the photo ? Also was i wrong in the past to have used these as ground rod clamps ? If so i was just doing what i was told. Thanks for any advice you could give me to help further my knowledge.


 
A split bolt is designed to connect two large conductors together. Like it's name, it looks like a bolt split down the middle. You overlap the two conductors and install the split bolt around them (either you slide the conductors in, or take the nut off and lay them in) and tighten the split bolt up.

But you have to cover the connection with tape or other insulating material.


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## Southeast Power

480sparky said:


> Split bolts.


Split Bolt?? Thats a bug!:thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey

Also, split-bolts (bug nuts) for AL wire have a separating divider that is supposed to go between the conductors. 
Those are CU only connectors. Although in the scope of this picture that is a minor violation by comparison.


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## NolaTigaBait

jrannis said:


> Split Bolt?? Thats a bug!:thumbsup:


Nah, thats a Kerney.


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## 480sparky

NolaTigaBait said:


> Nah, thats a Kerney.


Kearney.


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## NolaTigaBait

On another note, What's teh deal with feed through lugs? Are they considered feeder taps?


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## NolaTigaBait

480sparky said:


> Kearney.


Whatever. Whatever.:jester:


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## BuzzKill

NolaTigaBait said:


> On another note, What's teh deal with feed through lugs? Are they considered feeder taps?


 that made me think of some ahj's flagging #6 egc to the wp or the grnd rod that use those split bolts.


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## NolaTigaBait

BuzzKill said:


> that made me think of some ahj's flagging #6 egc to the wp or the grnd rod that use those split bolts.


They need to be irreversable for the GEC, but not for bonding .I used a KEARNEY to bond the water pipe the other day.


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## NolaTigaBait

BuzzKill said:


> that made me think of some ahj's flagging #6 egc to the wp or the grnd rod that use those split bolts.


I was talking about the lugs at the bottom of the buss. What section addresses this.


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## BuzzKill

NolaTigaBait said:


> They need to be irreversable for the GEC, but not for bonding .I used a KEARNEY to bond the water pipe the other day.


 granny clamp.


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## crazymurph

480sparky said:


> Split bolts.


A split bolt is really designed to work as a run and tap. You romove the insulation on the run wire and put the bolt part of the split bolt over the conductor and then add your tap wire, tighten and tape. No need to cut the conductor of the run wire.


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## crazymurph

BTW that is some real chitty work in the pic. Post more pics of this mess if you have them.


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## nitro71

Wondering who inspected this? I'd take a picture of the inspection sticker and the inside of this panel and mail it to the inspectors office. 

This looks like a service, neutral and ground bonded. No GEC present. Looks like they are using the EGC as a neutral also on that upper right feeder, that would depend what code cycle they are under if it was legal. Nice free aired UF coming out of the lower left on the panel, is there a bushing on that? And thats some nice work on those split bolts.


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## user4818

It looks pretty good to me. :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey

nitro71 said:


> This looks like a service, neutral and ground bonded. No GEC present. Looks like they are using the EGC as a neutral also on that upper right feeder, that would depend what code cycle they are under if it was legal. Nice free aired UF coming out of the lower left on the panel, is there a bushing on that? And thats some nice work on those split bolts.


And a Murray 2p100 in a SqD HOM panel. Notice how it is sitting crooked?


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## Bob Badger

Anyone want to try to cite a code section that prohibits exposed live parts in a cabinet?


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## Speedy Petey

Not exactly what you asked for, but...._*

110.14(B) Splices.* Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an insulating device identified for the purpose._


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## 480sparky

Peter D said:


> It looks pretty good to me. :whistling2:


Yer juest jealous you didn't think of doing that. :laughing:


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## Bob Badger

Looks like that would do it


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## Jlarson

480sparky said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you find the hack that did this and beat the chit out of him​




If the hack keeps doing work like that he is going to kill himself for us. Also I hate to say it but I saw the same thing in a J-Box one time.​


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## TOOL_5150

2 comments about the second pic: Is the murray breaker the only code violation, ort am I missing something? Is it a good idea to put nolox on the hex setscrews the way they did on the main lugs? Would this practice be advisable, or not advisable?

~Matt


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## Speedy Petey

TOOL_5150 said:


> 2 comments about the second pic: Is the murray breaker the only code violation, ort am I missing something?


No. I was just showing how the breaker was sitting. 





TOOL_5150 said:


> Is it a good idea to put nolox on the hex setscrews the way they did on the main lugs? Would this practice be advisable, or not advisable?


I do this every time. Makes the threading much smoother and more accurate IMO.


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## JayH

Speedy Petey said:


> I do this every time. Makes the threading much smoother and more accurate IMO.


 
It also prevents the lug seizing from oxidation. 

It's no fun when an cu/al lug you're trying to remove during a shut down strips.


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## rdr

I've seen a few people that do that. Also seen a couple that will even use nolox on copper wire as well instead of just on aluminum


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## drsparky

TOOL_5150 said:


> 2 comments about the second pic: Is the murray breaker the only code violation, ort am I missing something? Is it a good idea to put nolox on the hex setscrews the way they did on the main lugs? Would this practice be advisable, or not advisable?
> 
> ~Matt


I think it is a code violation; you are violating the manufactures listing.


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## TOOL_5150

drsparky said:


> I think it is a code violation; you are violating the manufactures listing.


What question does your comment pertain to?

~Matt


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## rdr

Apparently that "big wire" for 100 A breakers is too much to replace. :laughing:


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## Rudeboy

rdr said:


> I've seen a few people that do that. Also seen a couple that will even use nolox on copper wire as well instead of just on aluminum


I had and inspector call me on not using nolox on copper, i just splooged the stuff on there to make him happy.:whistling2:


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## TOOL_5150

Rudeboy said:


> I had and inspector call me on not using nolox on copper, i just splooged the stuff on there to make him happy.:whistling2:


According to the NEC, nolox is not required on any connection.:thumbsup:

~Matt


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## rdr

TOOL_5150 said:


> According to the NEC, nolox is not required on any connection.:thumbsup:
> 
> ~Matt


Got a reference?


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## TOOL_5150

rdr said:


> Got a reference?


No, because there isnt one. The NEC does NOT require you to use nolox on aluminum OR copper connections. Now, if the MFG of the wore or the lug requires you to do so, then you have to - but as far as the NEC, no.

~Matt


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## rdr

TOOL_5150 said:


> No, because there isnt one. The NEC does NOT require you to use nolox on aluminum OR copper connections. Now, if the MFG of the wore or the lug requires you to do so, then you have to - but as far as the NEC, no.
> 
> ~Matt


:no: 


That was a joke. Maybe I should have inserted a smiley to that effect. :whistling2:


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## TOOL_5150

rdr said:


> :no:
> 
> 
> That was a joke. Maybe I should have inserted a smiley to that effect. :whistling2:


AH! ok no prob:thumbsup: BTW.. your "Location" struck me as funny.:laughing:

~Matt


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## sparky970

jrannis said:


> Split Bolt?? Thats a bug!:thumbsup:


We call that a Kerney


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## steelersman

sparky970 said:


> We call that a Kerney


You obviously haven't read the entire thread.


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## steelersman

NolaTigaBait said:


> They need to be irreversable for the GEC, but not for bonding .I used a KEARNEY to bond the water pipe the other day.


The only time we've ever had to use an irreversible connection is in Maryland when the CCE or I guess UFER wire is too short to reach the panel, then we would Cadweld the wires together. But in the case of no UFER we just use Acorns on 2 ground rods and bond the plumbing or if it's copper water entrance then use the pipe clamp, but either way there are millions of homes out there that have no "irreversible" connection that are perfectly "legal".


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## captkirk

jrannis said:


> Split Bolt?? Thats a bug!:thumbsup:


 thats what we always call them...


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## drsparky

TOOL_5150 said:


> What question does your comment pertain to?
> 
> ~Matt


The Murray breaker in the square D panel. The slots on a Homeline breakers and panels are offset 1/8 inch from center, this causes Murray, GE, Seimens and other "like" breakers to sit in the panel slightly cocked. Murray are not listed for Square D Homeline and will even eventualy burn out the buss. When the breaker is cocked the jaws that grip the bus provide uneven pressure, a hot spot will form and melt the buss.


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## Stan B.

At least he used a bushing.


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## captkirk

the idiot who did that should be arrested for attempted man slaughter....


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## TOOL_5150

drsparky said:


> The Murray breaker in the square D panel. The slots on a Homeline breakers and panels are offset 1/8 inch from center, this causes Murray, GE, Seimens and other "like" breakers to sit in the panel slightly cocked. Murray are not listed for Square D Homeline and will even eventualy burn out the buss. When the breaker is cocked the jaws that grip the bus provide uneven pressure, a hot spot will form and melt the buss.


Ahh ok, I thought you were talking about the nolox on the setscrews. good info on the homeline panels tho :thumbsup:

~Matt


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## frenchelectrican

Eh?



*INCROYABLE!!!*


I don't know which is worst the American side or French side but right now it is a tie as far I did see.

Merci,Marc


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## frenchelectrican

I did show this to couple of French Electricians and they just drop the jaw all they just mutter one word: MERDE !! 


So really it don't matter which country we are on the result is the same we will run into some boneheads will do something stupid like that.

Merci.
Marc


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## sparkysteve

Just be careful putting the cover on. :no:


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## GEORGE D

Hey, at least I used NOALOX!!!


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## electrictim510

I think I saw the guy who did this the other day. He was in HD standing in front of the split bolts scratching his head talking to a failtrician HD employee. :laughing:


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## HARRY304E

480sparky said:


> I hope you find the hack that did this and beat the chit out of him.​
> 
> 
> Oh, wait.​
> 
> That's _my_ work.​
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Speedy, I hope you never find the hack that did that....​


 Got tape:laughing:


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## gold

WHAT? You can't do that?


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## Split Bolt

Look at the picture again. Notice there is no split bolt on the noodle. I think the hack originally had his crap connected to the feed-through lugs at the bottom of the buss bar. Then his hack boss told him he needed to put it on a breaker.

I may have to use this pic for my avatar!:laughing:


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## JohnR

NolaTigaBait said:


> On another note, What's the deal with feed through lugs? Are they considered feeder taps?


Those generally are not considered feeder taps, because it is after the OCPD.
Those lugs are for adding an additional panel to add circuits.


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## robnj772

What is with all this old thread bumping?


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## brian john

robnj772 said:


> What is with all this old thread bumping?


Why do any of these old threads get drug up?







Had to copy that.


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## guest

robnj772 said:


> What is with all this old thread bumping?



So says the "Troll Detective" :whistling2:

I think it's good that "chit" this bad gets bumped up to remind all of us how stupid some hacks can really be.


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## captkirk

there are called bugs around here and split bolts are for AL/Cu


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## Mike_586

captkirk said:


> there are called bugs around here and split bolts are for AL/Cu


Really?

All the ones I've ever seen are only rated for copper and copperweld conductors. I've only ever seen copperweld twice that I can recall, copper clad steel conductors. We just call them burndys around here, I suppose its because the only ones I've ever seen are the KS series made by Burndy though I'm just guessing, but it fits the theory.


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## kevinchiu

*scary hack ?*

Saw this on another forum. 

http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/i-wired-240v-subpanel-none-outlets-work-help-89701/


guy wires subpanel gets advice from home depot guy ?


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## guest

kevinchiu said:


> Saw this on another forum.
> 
> http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/i-wired-240v-subpanel-none-outlets-work-help-89701/
> 
> 
> guy wires subpanel gets advice from home depot guy ?


That guy deserves the house fire or death that's gonna be caused by that mess. 

As my good friend always says: "Stupid should be painful. "


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## oldtimer

mxslick said:


> That guy( deserves the house fire or death that's gonna be caused by that mess.)
> 
> As my good friend always says: "Stupid should be painful. "


 That is a dumb statement.. What he deserves is to have his power cut off, and a hefty fine.


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## Al13Cu29

oldtimer said:


> That is a dumb statement.. What he deserves is to have his power cut off, and a hefty fine.


Very true. :thumbsup:

Not sure about this, I think a kiln runs for more than 3 hours. At 800W, Up to four is no problem for a 20A breaker. He did say something about expansion though. He really should have called an electrician. :no:


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## B4T

Speedy.. seriously.. did you find a bunch of Carlon blue boxes on this job??


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## guest

oldtimer said:


> That is a dumb statement.. What he deserves is to have his power cut off, and a hefty fine.


Did you read the entire thread in the link?  (See post #42 in particular.) That clown repeatedly ignored all the folks trying to help him out, didn't answer any of the questions from people trying to help him out, then went on a tirade because he wouldn't listen and ultimately got banned. If someone acts like such a horses' ass I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for them. I stand by my statement, even though is is a bit harsh. 

I do agree 100% with you that he deserves a disconnect and fine. 





Al13Cu29 said:


> Very true. :thumbsup:
> 
> Not sure about this, I think a kiln runs for more than 3 hours. At 800W, Up to four is no problem for a 20A breaker. He did say something about expansion though. He really should have called an electrician. :no:


See above. 

You are correct, kilns run for more than 3 hours (some run 24/7 except for load/unload time) and he definitely needed to call an electrician.


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## vasparky27

HOLY C%^P! those split bolts freaked me out. some one forgot too remind their helper too tape them up? I opened a pedastal fo a mobile home where someone had removed the main breaker, power company came out and installed a meter without looking inside. the tenents wondered why there was no power and called me


HOLY C%$P!


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## BuzzKill

Just goes to prove a moderator can post a thread OVER one year old and still leave it open while another Mod can shut one down after 6 months...:no:


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## Dennis Alwon

BuzzKill said:


> Just goes to prove a moderator can post a thread OVER one year old and still leave it open while another Mod can shut one down after 6 months...:no:


I'll take care of that.  If Petey wants to open it again it is fine with me.


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## Speedy Petey

BuzzKill said:


> Just goes to prove a moderator can post a thread OVER one year old and still leave it open while another Mod can shut one down after 6 months...:no:


I'll leave it closed, but I want to make a point here.

Moderators had nothing to to with this Buzz. In thebeginning of December user electrictim510 posted to this thread after about 11 months. Since then lots of folks have made more replies, adding their own horror stories.

IMO a thread like this is timeless. I did not ask a question and nothing I posted was dated in any way. It would seem according to some the "Music Game" thread should also be closed because it is old and always being brought TTT. 

The point about closing old threads is when someone asked about a specific problem, project, situation or job, then some hoople head comes on a year later and says something like _"You need to check wire A and splice wire X to wire Y"_, like the person is still working on it a year later. 

BTW, no, I do not feel this way because I started this thread or because I am a mod. It's just my own opinion.


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