# Commercial recepts, how many?



## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

Is there a set code on the amount of recepts in a commercial building. Is it different for lets say a back room wherehouse, or workout center, and if it has front offices, are there more recepts?
Not talking residential homes of course.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Where needed as far as I know.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

alselec53 said:


> Is there a set code on the amount of recepts in a commercial building. Is it different for lets say a back room wherehouse, or workout center, and if it has front offices, are there more recepts?
> Not talking residential homes of course.


Nope.,,

It is different than the residential. 

Only need per drawing or building owner request that about it.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

There is no requirement for receptacles at all, but when used they are calculated at 180 VA each, meaning that you can have, at most, 13 on a 20 amp circuit.

This is different from residential where you can have an infinite number per circuit.


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

These are the only receptacle outlets that I know of that could be required in a commercial occupancy.



> *210.62 Show Windows.* At least one receptacle outlet
> shall be installed within 450 mm (18 in.) of the top of a
> show window for each 3.7 linear m (12 linear ft) or major
> fraction thereof of show window area measured horizontally
> ...


On another note, there also is no NEC requirement that the minimum wire size be #12 Cu and minimum circuit size be 20A. 

Individual job specs might dictate otherwise though.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Barjack said:


> These are the only receptacle outlets that I know of that could be required in a commercial occupancy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good note, but that is pretty standard.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

RePhase277 said:


> There is no requirement for receptacles at all, but when used they are calculated at 180 VA each, meaning that you can have, at most, 13 on a 20 amp circuit.
> 
> *This is different from residential where you can have an infinite number per circuit*.


Just curious, ... residential receptacles just use calculated load down there ?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

emtnut said:


> Just curious, ... residential receptacles just use calculated load down there ?


Yeah. 3 VA/sq. ft. All the receptacles in a 2000 sq. ft. house, excluding required appliance circuits, could be on 3 circuits.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Call me crazy, but I usually carry the same rule for openings for residential with 10 openings on a 15 amp circuit and thirteen on a 20 for general purpose. Usually put two bedroom on one regardless if I am one or two over, master gets its own.. Over wire maybe a bit. Especially with led lighting now a days. Residential garage always gets at least one twenty amp. Garages wired for guys with a beer fridge and power tools.maybe he and a friend drinking beer and running tools at the same time losing appendages.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Cl906um said:


> Garages wired for guys with a beer fridge and power tools.maybe he and a friend drinking beer and running tools at the same time losing appendages.


We're different up here.
Small heater in garage = perfect beer fridge ... A BIG fridge !

:laughing:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I don't wire many houses, but when I do, I like to put smaller bedrooms together on a circuit. Lighting circuits seperate from receptacles. I don't like a room with circuits from other rooms in it either.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

emtnut said:


> We're different up here.
> Small heater in garage = perfect beer fridge ... A BIG fridge !
> 
> :laughing:


I am a rock skip across Lake Superior from you. Fridge for summer. Unplugged in the winter to keep animals out. I get it. 3 degrees f.this morning here.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> I don't wire many houses, but when I do, I like to put smaller bedrooms together on a circuit. Lighting circuits seperate from receptacles. I don't like a room with circuits from other rooms in it either.


Back in the day we always diversified. The idea was to get 2 different circuits serving a bedroom, living room, den so that if one tripped the entire room wouldn't be dead. Of course, back then we didn't have to label anything. 

We kept it around 12 devices on a 15a circuit. 20's were only ever used for the SABC and washer, dishwasher, disposal, microwave. 

All bathroom, garage, outdoor receptacles on one 15a gfci circuit. There goes any hope of a beer fridge in the garage. 

Hi hats were big and gaining in popularity, I think the developers got about $250.00 for each one. New houses either got them in practically every room or none at all. Since electrically they were extras, completely additional circuits would be run for them and not combined with receptacles.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

emtnut said:


> Just curious, ... residential receptacles just use calculated load down there ?


I know rephase277 already answered your question, but here is the example out of the Annex in the back of the code book. 



> Example D1(a) One-Family Dwelling
> 
> The dwelling has a floor area of 1500 ft2, exclusive of an unfinished cellar not adaptable for future use, unfinished attic, and open porches. Appliances are a 12-kW range and a 5.5-kW, 240-V dryer. Assume range and dryer kW ratings equivalent to kVA ratings in accordance with 220.54 and 220.55.
> 
> ...


This is where there is no limit to how many outlets on a circuit, just minimum for how many circuits for general purpose lights and receptacles. 




> Small-Appliance Load: Two 2-wire, 20-A circuits [see 210.11(C)(1)]
> Laundry Load: One 2-wire, 20-A circuit [see 210.11(C)(2)]
> Bathroom Branch Circuit: One 2-wire, 20-A circuit (no additional load calculation is required for this circuit) [see 210.11(C)(3)]
> Minimum Size Feeder Required [see 220.40]
> ...


I was taught 8-10 recpts on a 15a circuit, keep lighting seperate, two romexes per hole. That is still the standard for me, if I do any residential. I don't see any reason to change.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

For commercial there is also a requirement for basin receptacles and counter receptacles

Also for meeting rooms in 2017.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Cl906um said:


> Call me crazy, but I usually carry the same rule for openings for residential with 10 openings on a 15 amp circuit and thirteen on a 20 for general purpose. Usually put two bedroom on one regardless if I am one or two over, master gets its own.. Over wire maybe a bit. Especially with led lighting now a days. Residential garage always gets at least one twenty amp. Garages wired for guys with a beer fridge and power tools.maybe he and a friend drinking beer and running tools at the same time losing appendages.


Those seem to be the 'rules of thumb' many guys go by from what I have seen and done.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Not a receptacle but a circuit for a sign.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Good note, but that is pretty standard.


Every local AHJ around here (Northern California) throws in #12 as an amendment for all non-residential circuits. The C/B can be reduced, not the conductor.


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## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

telsa said:


> Every local AHJ around here (Northern California) throws in #12 as an amendment for all non-residential circuits. The C/B can be reduced, not the conductor.


#12 in AZ too, but have not seen 15a breakers used.


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## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

MikeFL said:


> Not a receptacle but a circuit for a sign.


What if there are already lights there to light up a sign. Circuit not needed.


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## alselec53 (Jan 4, 2012)

RePhase277 said:


> There is no requirement for receptacles at all, but when used they are calculated at 180 VA each, meaning that you can have, at most, 13 on a 20 amp circuit.
> 
> This is different from residential where you can have an infinite number per circuit.


So only 13 recepts on 20a commercial, but can do more on 15a residential?
I always figured about 100 watts per recept in residential, but really no set standard I believe?
But commercial has a standard of 180w for a max of 13? Is that a code?


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

alselec53 said:


> What if there are already lights there to light up a sign. Circuit not needed.


600.5 is the article.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

alselec53 said:


> So only 13 recepts on 20a commercial, but can do more on 15a residential?
> I always figured about 100 watts per recept in residential, but really no set standard I believe?
> But commercial has a standard of 180w for a max of 13? Is that a code?


Yes, that is the code. You'll find the rules in Article 220 of the NEC.

Some locations may have amendments that do specify a limit on the number of receptacles on a residential circuit, but the NEC proper does not.


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## Tangent (Mar 19, 2017)

alselec53 said:


> Is there a set code on the amount of recepts in a commercial building. Is it different for lets say a back room wherehouse, or workout center, and if it has front offices, are there more recepts?
> Not talking residential homes of course.


No code, as to the amount of receptacles. However, if you choose to add outlets, they shall be subject to the following demand factors.

Calculate receptacle loads at not less than 180VA per outlet (strap) per 220.14(I) and fixed multioutlet assemblies per 220.14(H). According to 220.44, you can add these calculated loads to the lighting loads and apply the lighting load demand factors given in Table 220.42. Alternatively, you can use the demand factors for receptacles given in Table 220.44, which are as follows:

First 10kVA at 100% demand factor.
Remainder over 10kVA at 50% demand factor.
Calculate the receptacle load using 180VA for each single or multiple receptacle on one yoke or strap [220.14(I)].


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