# Generators and Interlock Switches - Siemens



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi guys!
I am planning on wiring a portable generator into the breaker box with an Interconnect switch. I have a couple questions:
- the load center is a Siemens G3040MB1200. Does anybody know which (Siemens) interlocking switch (part number?) fits that panel? The panel is the one shown on the very top here, I just don't want to spend $150 on a couple pieces of metal, so would like to get it directly from Siemens ($40?)
- which circuit breaker? It's a 5kW generator, so I figure a 20A or 30A 2-pole switch, correct?

Any input is very much appreciated!
Thanks,
Mike.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

schildi said:


> Hi guys!
> I am planning on wiring a portable generator into the breaker box with an Interconnect switch. I have a couple questions:
> - the load center is a Siemens G3040MB1200. Does anybody know which (Siemens) interlocking switch (part number?) fits that panel? The panel is the one shown on the very top here, I just don't want to spend $150 on a couple pieces of metal, so would like to get it directly from Siemens ($40?)
> - which circuit breaker? It's a 5kW generator, so I figure a 20A 2-pole switch, correct?
> ...


How about this..http://www.interlockkit.com/InstrK1010SiemensNewDsn09.pdf

Welcome to the forum:thumbup:


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

please have 911 on speed dail when you wire anything


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

Ampman, thanks for the great input! :smartass:

Harry, I would prefer getting the interlock switch kit directly from Siemens. The interlock.com switches seem overpriced. Thanks for your reply!


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

schildi said:


> Ampman, thanks for the great input! :smartass:
> 
> Harry, I would prefer getting the interlock switch kit directly from Siemens. The interlock.com switches seem overpriced. Thanks for your reply!


Heres a link..http://www.usa.siemens.com/entry/en/index.htm?stc=usccc020230


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Or you could NOT buy the mechanical interlock,

And just hookup with a suicide cord like all other electricians do.


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Heres a link..http://www.usa.siemens.com/entry/en/index.htm?stc=usccc020230


Harry, I did search Siemens' website, and I found the interlock switch kits. The problem is that I was unable to find the G3040MB1200 panel in any of their tables, so I thought maybe somebody here would know. That's why I came here.




miller_elex said:


> Or you could NOT buy the mechanical interlock,
> And just hookup with a suicide cord like all other electricians do.


Miller, not a bad idea. I'll think about it ... :blink:


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> How about this..http://www.interlockkit.com/InstrK1010SiemensNewDsn09.pdf
> 
> Welcome to the forum:thumbup:


Last resort only!! Use the Siemens kit. Your distributor should be able to hook you up.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

You have the main breaker that is made of what looks like 4 individual breakers? Like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Siemens-QP-200-...uit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item19c1019b24


The Siemens one for the 200 or 150 amp breakers is made for a different style. Like this I believe:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Siemens-Main-Ci...937?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a2fb3cd9

I have a customer with a main like in the first picture and had him order the one from the interlokkit. I have the Siemens one in the truck and I don't think it will fit that one. Think of it this way, even the 150 bucks or so is still the least expensive legal way to hook up a portable generator. Its not for everybody though, if you don't know how to manage the load, it may not be the best way to go. I don't sell those to anybody, just customers with enough sense to use them otherwise its a Gentran or a Reliance brand unit.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Last resort only!!



Why? :blink:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Last resort only!! Use the Siemens kit. Your distributor should be able to hook you up.





BBQ said:


> Why? :blink:


Probably $$


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> You have the main breaker that is made of what looks like 4 individual breakers? Like this:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Siemens-QP-200-...uit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item19c1019b24
> 
> ...


Thanks, nrp! Yes, I have that 4-piece main breaker you are showing. I did have doubts myself that any of the Siemens kits would fit. Maybe it will have to be one of the interlock kits for $150. 
What about the breaker sizing for the generator? The manual states 41.5A, so should I use a 2-pole 30A breaker for a 5kW generator?
Is the bonded neutral and ground at the generator (all portable generators will have that, right?) a big concern at all?


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Why? :blink:


I think it's a little overpriced at $150 for two metal plates. Yeah, it may be the least expensive solution if no Siemens kit exists, but still, this seems like robbery.  Strange that there is no competition. Maybe there is a business idea! :thumbup:


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I will go out on a limb and suggest a two pole 45, wire size depending on what type of cable or pipe and distance. The box that the generator plugs in to will be dependent on the receptacle on the generator has on it. The cord will match this also.


----------



## PowerFactor (Apr 25, 2010)

Depending on the State you live in and if the AHJ has anything to say about it, the kits from interlock.com are not UL listed. The job will get turned down if the inspector looks for the UL listing and your juridiction cares about such matters.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I wonder how much more they would cost with the full on UL listing? Looks like they have been tested by a NRTL, I wouldn't sweat it.


----------



## PowerFactor (Apr 25, 2010)

nrp3, I agree with you, they work fine. 

The problem with the interlocks is in the retaining bracket for the back-fed breaker.
As far as not sweating it I can 100% absolutely positively guarantee that when an LNI ( Labor and Industries, WA ) inspector checks the UL and it doesn't have one and I tell him don't sweat it that won't fly. :no: The job will get turned down and then you'll have to find another way to get a panel interlook when there aren't any to be had from the mfg. that are UL listed. 

That's the beauty of interlock.com is they make them for panels that don't have a UL listed one from the mfg.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I think I would print out their certificate that shows these things have been tested. It could be ETL or some other laboratory, it doesn't matter. Yes having a UL symbol generally makes me happy. I'm sure the reason it doesn't have one is the cost. It says it was tested to UL standards. If its that big of deal ask the inspector first.


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

schildi said:


> Harry, I did search Siemens' website, and I found the interlock switch kits. The problem is that I was unable to find the G3040MB1200 panel in any of their tables, so I thought maybe somebody here would know. That's why I came here.
> 
> 
> 
> Miller, not a bad idea. I'll think about it ... :blink:


 you are serious


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

PowerFactor said:


> Depending on the State you live in and if the AHJ has anything to say about it, the kits from interlock.com are not UL listed. The job will get turned down if the inspector looks for the UL listing and your juridiction cares about such matters.


They don't have to be UL listed regardless of what your inspector thinks.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

To back up Scott ..



> 702.6 Transfer Equipment. *Transfer equipment shall be
> suitable for the intended use and designed and installed so
> as to prevent the inadvertent interconnection of normal and
> alternate sources of supply in any operation of the transfer
> ...


----------



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Generators are not bonded n-g.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I attempted to rectify a problem where "Ocean" electric used a 30 amp DP breaker in garage sub panel to backfeed main panel. No way to to clean that situation up without loosing the main panel so it stood.


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> I attempted to rectify a problem where "Ocean" electric used a 30 amp DP breaker in garage sub panel to backfeed main panel. No way to to clean that situation up without loosing the main panel so it stood.


I do not understand what you are saying here.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

PowerFactor said:


> nrp3, I agree with you, they work fine.
> 
> The problem with the interlocks is in the retaining bracket for the back-fed breaker.
> As far as not sweating it I can 100% absolutely positively guarantee that when an LNI ( Labor and Industries, WA ) inspector checks the UL and it doesn't have one and I tell him don't sweat it that won't fly. :no: The job will get turned down and then you'll have to find another way to get a panel interlook when there aren't any to be had from the mfg. that are UL listed.
> ...


 The kits are designed, manufactured, and tested by Wyle Labs are to meet the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Protection Code. Wyle Labs r is a nationally recognized testing laboratory that test to UL and other standards. Test results are available from Wyle Labs.

I dont like them due to the fact that they cost too much and dont fit that well.


----------



## PowerFactor (Apr 25, 2010)

I've spoken with both interlock.com and Olympia, WA electrical inspection dept. Interlock states that WA is one of the states that they are having trouble with. Interlock has presented the testing information that others have pointed out regarding testing etc. but so far it is a no go. 
So as it stands at this point they are not accepted because they are not UL listed. I am just pointing out what we have to work under.

Now if electricmanscott or his sidekick bbq want to call Olympia @ 360-902-5249 and ask for the Chief Electrical Inspector and explain to him about their vast knowledge and power I am sure all of the Department of Labor & Industries in Washington State will instantly recognize your infinite knowledge of the NEC and they will change their minds. :laughing:


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

PowerFactor said:


> I've spoken with both interlock.com and Olympia, WA electrical inspection dept. Interlock states that WA is one of the states that they are having trouble with. Interlock has presented the testing information that others have pointed out regarding testing etc. but so far it is a no go.
> So as it stands at this point they are not accepted because they are not UL listed. I am just pointing out what we have to work under.
> 
> Now if electricmanscott or his sidekick bbq want to call Olympia @ 360-902-5249 and ask for the Chief Electrical Inspector and explain to him about their vast knowledge and power I am sure all of the Department of Labor & Industries in Washington State will instantly recognize your infinite knowledge of the NEC and they will change their minds. :laughing:


PowerFactor, this is really weird. The WA Dept. of Labot and Industries has published a document called "Generator Transfer Switch Options" (link below). In that document, they mention aftermarket interlock kits as "_the least expensive ways to incorporate a __transfer switch into your existing electrical system_". Even more interesting, on page 3 of that document, they are showing a sample application with the following caption: "_Picture Courtesy of Generator Interlock Technologies". _Isn't that weird? They are advertising the interlock.com stuff, and then do not allow it?
Here is the link to the document.​ 
BTW, PowerFactor, you seem to live very very close to me. Want to make me an offer on the installation?  Send me a PM.​


----------



## PowerFactor (Apr 25, 2010)

Schildi, I had a job recently in which it would have been great to get a panel interlock. But the panel was old enough that the mfg didn't have a kit at all, let alone a UL listed one. So of course there was interlock.com. They had one. 
By some turn of events CED and another source told me about the UL problem. So before I bid the job I called LNI to see what was up. They said don't use it if it doesn't have a UL listing for the panel it is getting installed in.
Now that doesn't mean people are not putting them on. They just aren't getting permits. 
btw, I don't gamble. That's why I called LNI to cover my ass before I got into trouble with a correction.
Personally I would like to have them available. I'll check your link out.


----------



## PowerFactor (Apr 25, 2010)

This is from the Currents Newsletter:

Only use an interlock kit *approved* for your existing panelboard. Using another brand is extremely unsafe and could cause your family to be electrocuted or major damage to your house’s electrical system.

*Approved:* Acceptable to the AHJ. Article 100 
As of my last phone call they were not accepted.

Looks like an office cluck copied and pasted and didn't know the technical electrical aspects. As we know Government agencies never make mistakes.


​


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

PowerFactor said:


> This is from the Currents Newsletter:​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was wondering about the "_kit *approved* for your existing panelboard_" myself. Wording that leaves all options open for them. I'll call them. Do you remember who you spoke to?
I would love to get a Siemens kit, if I'd just know it exists, and which one it is for my G3040MB1200 panel.
BTW, I thought this transfer switch was to protect the lineman. Now they say I'll electrocute my family. Another weird part of the flyer. At least, on their webpage, interlock.com has corrected the "covenience outlet" typo. Otherwise it's the exact same picture ....


----------



## PowerFactor (Apr 25, 2010)

Schildi, if you call that would be great. It would be nice to get to the bottom of this.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I have an answer for you but since you have turned out to be a ****head I'll keep it to myself. Good luck.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I will go out on a limb and suggest a two pole 45, wire size depending on what type of cable or pipe and distance. The box that the generator plugs in to will be dependent on the receptacle on the generator has on it. The cord will match this also.


 
:blink::blink:


----------



## schildi (Nov 21, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> I have an answer for you but since you have turned out to be a ****head I'll keep it to myself. Good luck.


??? Are you talking to me, Scott? No, I don't want to play games today. :laughing:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Thanks for posting on ElectricianTalk.com. The Moderators of this forum would prefer if you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com 

ElectricianTalk.com is designed for electrical industry professionals to discuss issues and topics related to the electrical trades and related industries. Many of our professionals are also members at DIYChatroom.com and are looking forward to assist you with your needs.

Please take a moment to post your question at www.DIYChatroom.com If you're not already a member of DIYChatroom.com you can sign up for a free account by going to http://www.diychatroom.com/register.php/


----------

