# Aff



## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

When you see a receptacle on a plan that says 40" AFF, do you measure to the top, center of bottom of box?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Ima Hack said:


> When you see a receptacle on a plan that says 40" AFF, do you measure to the top, center of bottom of box?


It depends on the designer/ engineer/architect. I would consider that measurement to the bottom unless they specify center. Somewhere on the plan it may say all measurements to center. I would definitely call as I bet most designers mean the center.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I always use the center unless I am told otherwise.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

I have always measured to the bottom of the box unless, as already pointed out, there is a spec or general note saying otherwise. 

Pete


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> I always use the center unless I am told otherwise.


44" to the center would not be 44" aff


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## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

I used to consider it center till I got burned on a job last year for it >.<


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> 44" to the center would not be 44" aff


 
Especially if they had cabinets or equipment that was 43" high.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

There is really no way to know how different folks in different parts of the world view this. Again I say call the architect or whoever is in charge.


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

Always considered aff to be center of box unless otherwise noted. But after hearing this I might reconsider next job


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> 44" to the center would not be 44" aff


I do believe _that_ is the answer.

Plain as day, why didn't I think of that?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> There is really no way to know how different folks in different parts of the world view this. Again I say call the architect or whoever is in charge.


 

Exactly, it isn't worth moving them after if you interpret wrong.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Ima Hack said:


> I do believe _that_ is the answer.
> 
> Plain as day, why didn't I think of that?





MechanicalDVR said:


> Exactly, it isn't worth moving them after if you interpret wrong.


 
IMO, I don't think there is anything to interpret. If you set the box at 44" to the center, it is plainly not 44" above the floor. It would be around 42". I don't see how there is anything to interpret.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I always do to the bottom of the box.


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## freeone37 (Nov 9, 2011)

Center here, and I always check all job specs. on the plans, and to reassure i ask in the job meetings, it makes it easier to align the P-ring with a center mark


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## gleeming (May 24, 2009)

We Always go to bottom.


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## khfiei (Aug 20, 2011)

What about wall sconces where an architect may want to specify the center of the fixture?


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## Hairbone (Feb 16, 2011)

I would review the architectural drawings as with counter height receptacles there is usually a millwork detail. When in doubt it never hurts to send an RFI (request for Information) out to verify the height. It is always best to get this in writing vs calling an architect as it can save you from costly mistakes.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

when i worked from plans that just said 44 AFF it was always to the bottom of the box had a very "new' EE working on a COE job Fort Cambell that said we needed to lower our boxes because she said 44 AFF meant to the bottom of the receptacle:no:.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

On one of our larger projects this summer, I checked the prints for device heights. They were all drawn out to the center line of the box and labeled as "AFF", so that's how they were installed.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I use it as the bottom.


If you read it as "_receptacle @40"* above* finished floor_", you would need to make 40" the bottom mark. 

If you make it the center, *1/2* of the recep will be *below 40"* from the finished floor.....right?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> IMO, I don't think there is anything to interpret. If you set the box at 44" to the center, it is plainly not 44" above the floor. It would be around 42". I don't see how there is anything to interpret.


 
Well if the bottomo the box is at 44" you still won't have free wall space when the cover is installed. So to avoid an issue I'd ask the architech/designer to avoid being wrong was my point. 

And clearly it is up to the way you "interpret" the 44'' AFF statement.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

AFF, as far as I'm concerned, means ABOVE FINISHED FLOOR. What is so confusing? How the hell do you interpret that means measure from the center of the box??!!!

Pete


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Always measured to center where I come from. Unless otherwise noted.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

cdnelectrician said:


> Always measured to center where I come from. Unless otherwise noted.


I ask again... How do you get to the point that you think that it means from the center of the box?

Pete


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## crosport (Apr 4, 2010)

Why would you measure to centre? Easier to line up your sharpie mark to the bottom of the box than to the centre of the box. Don't ya think!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Always measured to center where I come from. Unless otherwise noted.


 
If the specs say 44" AFF and you measure to the center, your box is only 42" AFF. 

32" kitchen cabinet set on a 4" toe kick, and a 6" back splash, 1" countertop, you're in trouble.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Well if the bottomo the box is at 44" you still won't have free wall space when the cover is installed. So to avoid an issue I'd ask the architech/designer to avoid being wrong was my point.
> 
> And clearly it is up to the way you "interpret" the 44'' AFF statement.


 

IMO, there is no interpretation. 
44" to the top of the box does not leave 44" above the floor. 
44" to the middle of the box does not leave 44" above the floor. 
44" to the bottom of the box does leave 44" above the floor. 
I don't see what there is to interpret.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> IMO, there is no interpretation.
> 44" to the top of the box does not leave 44" above the floor.
> 44" to the middle of the box does not leave 44" above the floor.
> 44" to the bottom of the box does leave 44" above the floor.
> I don't see what there is to interpret.


I don't either... Is this rocket surgery?

Pete


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

On most, if not all prints I have seen, they have pages that show elevations... You can get a lot of useful info there...

Pete


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

On the A drawings that show the wall layouts everything seems to be measured to the center from the floor. On my plans I am working off of right now.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> On the A drawings that show the wall layouts everything seems to be measured to the center from the floor. On my plans I am working off of right now.


 
I have plans right now that list measurements to the center. But my point is, if it says 44" AFF and nothing else, there's only one way to take that to ACTUALLY have the 44" measurement between the box and the floor.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

You can choose to believe this or not.... The electrical engineer and architect don't always communicate so good...

As said previously, if there is a discrepancy between the E drawings and the A drawings send out an RFI.

Pete


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I have plans right now that list measurements to the center. But my point is, if it says 44" AFF and nothing else, there's only one way to take that to ACTUALLY have the 44" measurement between the box and the floor.


I agree with what you say and I will add that to be truly AFF you have to look at the finish schedule for the room or area that the devices are to be installed.

Pete


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## paul_arc (Mar 31, 2009)

Measurement is always to center unless noted different. AFF is'nt saying they want 44" of clear wall space until bottom of recep. Its just giving you a measurement of where they want the recep and saying "after finish floor". So dont measure off the concrete, if there is 1" thick floor going on the concrete you would just measure 45" to center of box off concrete.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

paul_arc said:


> Measurement is always to center unless noted different. AFF is'nt saying they want 44" of clear wall space until bottom of recep. Its just giving you a measurement of where they want the recep and saying "after finish floor". So dont measure off the concrete, if there is 1" thick floor going on the concrete you would just measure 45" to center of box off concrete.


So what, in your opinion, does AFF stand for? Above Finished Floor To Center Of Box?.... Let me see... That would be AFFTCOB... Could you be right? Yes, you could... But I can't think of anything else that AFF could be interpreted to mean.

Pete


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Pete m. said:


> So what, in your opinion, does AFF stand for? Above Finished Floor To Center Of Box?.... Let me see... That would be AFFTCOB... Could you be right? Yes, you could... But I can't think of anything else that AFF could be interpreted to mean.
> 
> Pete


AFF = Above Finished Floor. That's it. 

It's up to the print to tell you where that measurement lands up in relation to the box. Bottom, Center, Top.

Every print is different, that's why we reference them. I guess we will debate just about any subject on this site. :blink:

If my print tells me 18" AFF to the center of the box, that's where I put it. 
If my print tells me 18" AFF to the bottom of the box, that's where I put it.
If my print tells me 18" AFF to the top of the box, that's where I put it. 

AFF is just a measurement. The print shows you where that measurement is measured to. It's simple.

If there's no print, I match the most common height amongst existing devices or measure to the center.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

thegoldenboy said:


> AFF = Above Finished Floor. That's it.
> 
> It's up to the print to tell you where that measurement lands up in relation to the box. Bottom, Center, Top.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Most case I useally run into AFF but once a while *BFCL* (Below Finshed Ceiling Line ) if the prints stated for that and for the AFF that useally either bottom or centre of the junction box unless noted otherwise.

Merci,
Marc


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

All I can say is, anybody setting boxes at 44" to the center, is gonna be in trouble in 99% of kitchens.


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> All I can say is, anybody setting boxes at 44" to the center, is gonna be in trouble in 99% of kitchens.


Not denying the point of bottom or center but I usually go to center and never had problems. Typical counter top height is 36" with four in backsplash. Usually come out perfect.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Im in the AFF to bottom crowd.


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