# Money Poorly Spent



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Seems some unions are less than content with Obama Care

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...s-cause-nightmare-scenarios/?partner=yahootix


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brian john said:


> Seems some unions are less than content with Obama Care
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...s-cause-nightmare-scenarios/?partner=yahootix


Didn't you post basically the same thing about a month ago?


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> Labor unions are among the key institutions responsible for the passage of Obamacare. They spent tons of money electing Democrats to Congress in 2006 and 2008, and fought hard to push the health law through the legislature in 2009 and 2010. But now, unions are waking up to the fact that Obamacare is heavily disruptive to the health benefits of their members.



Now at first sniff one would say _'dumber than a bag o' hammers' _

but that isn't really true is it?

~CS~


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Didn't you post basically the same thing about a month ago?


As more information comes to light.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Evidently their enlightened self interest has bit them in the azz

and now they're sore about it

boo freakin' hoo...:laughing:

~CS~


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

brian john said:


> As more information comes to light.


As the Koch Brothers spend more money convincing folks that the sky is yellow and water is dry.

Conservatives’ Aggressive Ad Campaign Seeks to Cast Doubt on Health Law

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/u...-cast-doubt-on-health-law.html?src=recg&_r=2&

You really need to post this in the appropriate section BJ - like Off Topic or Fan Fiction


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

eejack said:


> You really need to post this in the appropriate section BJ - like Off Topic or Fan Fiction


like where they serve meadowmuffins as pancakes?

~CS~


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> As the Koch Brothers spend more money convincing folks that the sky is yellow and water is dry.
> 
> Conservatives’ Aggressive Ad Campaign Seeks to Cast Doubt on Health Law
> 
> ...


I am content where it is posted.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

brian john said:


> I am content where it is posted.


Of course you are, but that is neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with electrician's unions and having posted this same exact tripe over and over you know exactly where this thread is going to end up.

A definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - well try something different for a change and go troll in the spam/off topic/troll section where idiotic partisan twaddle like this belongs.

You post your right wing anti-american crap in there all the time already, just keep in all in there where it is expected and basically allowed and stop sullying up other sections of this forum with your drivel.

Thank you for caring.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> Of course you are, but that is neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with electrician's unions and having posted this same exact tripe over and over you know exactly where this thread is going to end up.
> 
> A definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - well try something different for a change and go troll in the spam/off topic/troll section where idiotic partisan twaddle like this belongs.
> 
> ...


OK.....nice slam seems you have nothing left in your argument.


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

This whole "allowing political posts on ET to some extent" thing was a mistake.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

brian john said:


> OK.....nice slam seems you have nothing left in your argument.


Nope just think he was taking you down a peg :thumbup:


----------



## J.Dunner (Apr 21, 2013)

Another anti-union thread by Brian.........Please, say it aint so.....


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I bet his best friend is snowden.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

J.Dunner said:


> Another anti-union thread by Brian.........Please, say it aint so.....


I seem to remember Brian being a pro union guy. Did I remember wrong?


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

No....

One simply needs to keep the_ concept _of unions in mind here Lou

~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Big_Union_(concept)



> The appeal subsequently proclaimed the intent to organize "all wage workers . . . into One Big Union, regardless of creed, color, or nationality . . . An injury to one is an injury to all."[9] *The immediate goal of One Big Union was better pay, shorter hours, and better surroundings*.[10] The IWW propagandized, "Organize in one big union and fight for a chance to live as human beings should live. All together now and victory will be ours."[11]



http://www.wikinvest.com/concept/Labor_Unions



> A labor union or trade union is an organization run by and for workers who have come together to achieve common goals in fair wages and working conditions.
> 
> The most visible labor unions are among public sector employees such as teachers and police. Labor unions engage in collective bargaining over wages, benefits, and working conditions for their members and on representing their members if management attempts to violate contract provisions.
> 
> ...


https://sites.google.com/a/spartanpride.net/j-baade/unions-and-collective-bargaining



> Unions as an Outmoded Institution
> 
> Globalization, job loss, and the dwindling strength of unions affects every American worker directly and/or indirectly as we lose more and more jobs overseas, and the competition for jobs becomes a staggering obstacle. Unions are fighting less for wage and benefits concessions than they are keep jobs in the United States. The current political climate and anti-labor initiatives have steadily stripped employee and union rights.* The ripple effect could be enormous over the next few years* in terms of increased lawsuits.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I seem to remember Brian being a pro union guy. Did I remember wrong?


 
I walk the line, I feel union is by far the best thing for workers, and for employers it can be a fair way to go, there are some advantages and some disadvantages as well. 

I am happy with being a union employer, though I do know all my non-union friends that are ECs charge close to the same rates as we do live a better life style, having less overhead to deal with.

I just feel hanging all their money with one party has done little to improve their situation. Big business found out long ago you split your cash and you will get more bang for your buck. If you throw all your money blindly with either party you will suffer when the opposing party is in office.

I also feel unions should be taking a stronger stance in the immigration reform, in lieu of looking at it as a membership drive.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

brian john said:


> OK.....nice slam seems you have nothing left in your argument.


What argument?

You trolled this topic at least two previous times on this board - you will continue to do so because you are a right wing anti-worker pro-business contractor who wants the union to give you more and me less.

Your post has nothing to do with electricians nor electrical unions.

In fact, Obamacare will not even effect you as all of your insurance costs are fixed and negotiated years in advance - if anyone stands to benefit it is you and your workers.

But you suck at the Koch teat so 'OMG Obamacare'.

:thumbup:


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

74% of small businesses will fire workers, cut hours under Obamacare


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

eejack said:


> What argument?
> 
> You trolled this topic at least two previous times on this board - you will continue to do so because you are a right wing anti-worker pro-business contractor who wants the union to give you more and me less.
> 
> ...


At least the Koch Brothers are Americans,Unlike George Sorros.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Black Dog said:


> 74% of small businesses will fire workers, cut hours under Obamacare


:lol:

He posts like it is a fact. :laughing:


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Great , so i can fire myself soon....~CS~


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> eejack said:
> 
> 
> > What argument?
> ...


OK so you either can't read or comprehend, accepted, you must have been taught at a NEA school:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> :lol:
> 
> He posts like it is a fact. :laughing:


It is a fact..:laughing:


----------



## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

brian john said:


> Seems some unions are less than content with Obama Care
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...s-cause-nightmare-scenarios/?partner=yahootix


Hee, hee!



eejack said:


> Of course you are, but that is neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with electrician's unions and having posted this same exact tripe over and over you know exactly where this thread is going to end up.
> 
> A definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - well try something different for a change and go troll in the spam/off topic/troll section where idiotic partisan twaddle like this belongs.
> 
> ...


 

*Right wing anti-American crap?*





Black Dog said:


> 74% of small businesses will fire workers, cut hours under Obamacare


 
Told ya so. Dumbazz.


----------



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I like Charlie chickie's point of view.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> I like Charlie chickie's point of view.


Refresh my memory I cannot remember.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> Of course you are, but that is neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with electrician's unions and having posted this same exact tripe over and over you know exactly where this thread is going to end up.
> 
> A definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - well try something different for a change and go troll in the spam/off topic/troll section where idiotic partisan twaddle like this belongs.
> 
> ...


Sorry but right wing is American ,,Left wing has always been anti-American,,,the entire world is controlled by the left and they just hate every free man in America and our right wing constitutional republic.

Nice try though...:laughing:


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> 74% of small businesses will fire workers, cut hours under Obamacare


Based on research by United States Chamber of Commerce.

Who is this United States Chamber of Commerce?

The United States Chamber of Commerce (USCC) is an American lobbying group representing the interests of many businesses and trade associations. It is not an agency of the United States government.

The Chamber is staffed with policy specialists, lobbyists and lawyers. Politically, the Chamber is generally considered to be a conservative organization. It usually supports Republican political candidates, though it has occasionally supported conservative Democrats. The Chamber is one of the largest lobbying groups in the U.S., spending more money than any other lobbying organization on a yearly basis.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> The Chamber is staffed with policy specialists, lobbyists and lawyers. Politically, the Chamber is generally considered to be a conservative organization. It usually supports Republican political candidates, though it has occasionally supported conservative Democrats. The Chamber is one of the largest lobbying groups in the U.S., spending more money than any other lobbying organization on a yearly basis.


http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s

But I bet eveyone in the list fudges the facts, much as our government does.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

eejack said:


> Based on research by United States Chamber of Commerce.
> 
> Who is this United States Chamber of Commerce?
> 
> ...


Switch the word chamber with union and conservative with liberal and then your post would make much more sense


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> Based on research by United States Chamber of Commerce.
> 
> Who is this United States Chamber of Commerce?
> 
> ...


And so your point is?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> It is a fact..:laughing:


Harry as usual you have no idea what the word 'fact' means. 

You seem to believe that anything you agree with is a fact. :laughing:


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Sorry but right wing is American ,,Left wing has always been anti-American,,,the entire world is controlled by the left and they just hate every free man in America and our right wing constitutional republic.
> 
> Nice try though...:laughing:


At least you troll with some style and panache, unlike that BJ fellow.
:thumbsup:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> At least you troll with some style and panache, unlike that BJ fellow.
> :thumbsup:


Oh a knife in my heart, such biting wit.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Harry as usual you have no idea what the word 'fact' means.
> 
> You seem to believe that anything you agree with is a fact. :laughing:


That's because it is do the work and look up the info yourself , all you have to do is figure out where to look,,here is a TIP you won't find it here..:laughing::laughing:


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> And so your point is?


The research is invalid, the points derived from the research is false and the whole thing might as well have been made up since it probably was.

The USCC is an anti-worker lobbying organization.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

brian john said:


> http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s
> 
> But I bet eveyone in the list fudges the facts, much as our government does.


I'm confused...you prove my point for me then try to say the government is lying?

Seriously Brian - take a good hard look at the crap these organizations are forcing down our throats and how much money they are spending to do it and ask yourself...are they telling us the truth?

Almost a billion dollars spent trying to influence the government by ONE organization...if they were right and had valid points why would they spend so much money?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> I'm confused...you prove my point for me then try to say the government is lying?
> 
> Seriously Brian - take a good hard look at the crap these organizations are forcing down our throats and how much money they are spending to do it and ask yourself...are they telling us the truth?
> 
> Almost a billion dollars spent trying to influence the government by ONE organization...if they were right and had valid points why would they spend so much money?


I do agree with you.

Note to all , hell just froze over.:laughing:


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Switch the word chamber with union and conservative with liberal and then your post would make much more sense


And switch the 5 million in lobbying money spent in 2012 with the 136 million in lobbying money. Oh wait...other way around :thumbsup:


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

brian john said:


> I do agree with you.
> 
> Note to all , hell just froze over.:laughing:


Egads - what have we done.:laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> The research is invalid, the points derived from the research is false and the whole thing might as well have been made up since it probably was.
> 
> The USCC is an anti-worker lobbying organization.


They are not an anti-worker lobby,A party that created the IRS that confiscates the wages of ordinary worker is anti-worker,A party the decided in 1943 to confiscate wages from a mans paycheck every payday while the men were off fighting WWII is Anti-worker,A party that runs all the blue states that also confiscate wages from ordinary workers the further erode their spending power,A party the wants to shut down all the coal mines with the intent to increase the cost of energy so that ordinary workers suffer even less spending power with what's left over after they confiscate most of a mans wages then pay themselves 10 times that of an ordinary worker even though they're millionaires themselves. A party that has voted recently to raise Gas and diesel fuel taxes in several states to further erode the working mans paycheck in the hope that this sort of social engineering will force the working man to give up his home in the suburbs and give up his cars and trucks and move back into the big city's so they can be controlled , A party that want us to live their way and no other.

I agree that too much money flows into DC corrupting all of the politicians who go there with modest means and become millionaires over night.

It is true that the USCC is pro-business , by default that makes them pro-worker,,,why? Because they're fighting to help business stay in business that's good for workers it gives them more company's to work at not less.

Big Government wants only one business their own,,that's Anti-worker.


----------



## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> They are not an anti-worker lobby,A party that created the IRS that confiscates the wages of ordinary worker is anti-worker,A party the decided in 1943 to confiscate wages from a mans paycheck every payday while the men were off fighting WWII is Anti-worker,A party that runs all the blue states that also confiscate wages from ordinary workers the further erode their spending power,A party the wants to shut down all the coal mines with the intent to increase the cost of energy so that ordinary workers suffer even less spending power with what's left over after they confiscate most of a mans wages then pay themselves 10 times that of an ordinary worker even though they're millionaires themselves. A party that has voted recently to raise Gas and diesel fuel taxes in several states to further erode the working mans paycheck in the hope that this sort of social engineering will force the working man to give up his home in the suburbs and give up his cars and trucks and move back into the big city's so they can be controlled , A party that want us to live their way and no other.
> 
> I agree that too much money flows into DC corrupting all of the politicians who go there with modest means and become millionaires over night.
> 
> ...


 
Tis truly a shame that I can only thank a person once per post.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> They are not an anti-worker lobby,A party that created the IRS that confiscates the wages of ordinary worker is anti-worker,A party the decided in 1943 to confiscate wages from a mans paycheck every payday while the men were off fighting WWII is Anti-worker,A party that runs all the blue states that also confiscate wages from ordinary workers the further erode their spending power,A party the wants to shut down all the coal mines with the intent to increase the cost of energy so that ordinary workers suffer even less spending power with what's left over after they confiscate most of a mans wages then pay themselves 10 times that of an ordinary worker even though they're millionaires themselves. A party that has voted recently to raise Gas and diesel fuel taxes in several states to further erode the working mans paycheck in the hope that this sort of social engineering will force the working man to give up his home in the suburbs and give up his cars and trucks and move back into the big city's so they can be controlled , A party that want us to live their way and no other.
> 
> I agree that too much money flows into DC corrupting all of the politicians who go there with modest means and become millionaires over night.
> 
> ...


It is anti-worker.

The largest expense in business is labor, these folks want to reduce labor costs as much as possible and remove as many worker rights as they can.

You can attempt to deflect this by talking about the irs and gas taxes but it is smoke and mirrors on your part.

But calling them pro-worker is downright insulting. 

Here is a couple of their planks...

Supports corporate globalization/free trade and outsourcing.

Opposes financial regulation.

Opposes healthcare reform as written in the Affordable Health Care for America Act. The Chamber views health care reform as necessary, but prefers market-based solutions.

Opposes action on climate change. The Chamber recognizes that climate change is real, but disputes the scientific consensus that warming mostly results from human activity and questions whether anything can be done to reduce climate change. The Chamber emphasizes the economic impact of climate decisions.

Supported corporate personhood and allowing corporations to spend unlimited sums on electioneering via an amicus brief to the U.S. Supreme Court Citizens United v FEC. Its position is opposed by some advocates for independent businesses.

Real pro worker there.

( still not seeing the tie into electricians or electrical unions - should still be moved over to off topic )


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

eejack said:


> It is anti-worker.
> 
> The largest expense in business is labor, these folks want to reduce labor costs as much as possible and remove as many worker rights as they can.
> 
> ...



Because the USCC sucks the azz of corporatism...... and corporatism is anti-worker......so if the IBEW is an active member , it's a tie in qualifier

the USCC Does not speak for me petition has, in recent times, painted them for what they are

toadies to the ruling elites 

~CS~


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> It is anti-worker.
> 
> The largest expense in business is labor, these folks want to reduce labor costs as much as possible and remove as many worker rights as they can.
> 
> ...


Yes that is correct labor is expensive , but it's not wages that is the problem,it is IRS regulations and other regulations that are in place to prevent employees from taking home too much cash,yes that's right,in the eyes of the Government working stiffs must be kept a paycheck away from total dependency on the government.

So what to do,how do we keep the cash away from the ordinary worker?

Well we will create insurense company's to suck up all that excess cash and we will invest in their stocks and get rich off of their backs,we will pash laws requiring people to purchase insurance of all the types we can think of.

We will create employee benefits in Lew of cash, these expensive benefits will be made expensive to the individual but inexpensive to the big employers so that workers will want to be employed verses self employed,remember these benefits come right out of your pay that your employer charges out on your behalf,YOU never get to see that money but it's yours just the same.

The best way is through health insurense , Hell everyone likes that ,Right? What better way to erode the ordinary workers paycheck and make him believe it's good.:laughing: and WE will get rich off of their hard earned cash,,oh it's an awesome tool and it has worked well screwing the little guy since the 1940's.

Well this scam has worked well till the 1980's when Reagan screwed up the agenda by cutting taxes,, freeing tons of cash and employees pay skyrocketed all the way till 2007.

So what to do? First we must stop this endless expansion of the economy .

The banks will pull the plug on lending all together this will prevent the ordinary worker and small business's from getting any more cash and many will lose their jobs leaving them in extreme debt with no way to pay it off because that high paying job they had is gone,and we will allow the banks to write it off in fact we will just give them the money back through law.

Those who lost their jobs will collect unemployment till it runs out and we will extend it as long as possible to get them used to not going in to work everyday,then we will give them disability checks and food stamps they will finally be forced to live in public housing and they will vote for us for the rest of their lives all while being imprisoned in the welfare plantation Wth no way out.

Yes folks it gets even better because we will scare the people with "Global Warming" in fact we will brainwash them into thinking if we don't do something the world will get too hot and burn to a crisp,yes the folks will fall for this too,we will get them to vote to raise their own taxes because they will be saving the world:laughing: and we will become even richer from the green industry ,,whoops 31,000 scientists say the earth has been getting cooler since the 1990's,,,,,,,What to do?,,,,We will change the name and call it "Climate Change" and the folks will fall for it and the news media has our backs along with the entertainment industry and the UN , we will pass laws on this to enforce the UN's Agenda 21 and the people will never catch on until it's too late.

In 1993 we passed the free trade act and in 1999 we passed the free trade act with china this took many jobs away from ordinary workers who have never found another job that paid so well,this helps us enforce the UN's Agenda 21 who's main theme is to lower the standard of living for ordinary Americans to that of the rest of the world( look up Agenda 21 and take the time to read it) Then look around your city or town and you will see that they are enforcing agenda 21 by using " the Global Warming/Climate change HOAX as a tool to fool us.

All of this is by design to make a small group of people billionaires while the little guy suffers,in fact today the little guy can still vote these people out, but as these people grow their super power off the backs of the little guy while telling it's good for them , the big boys are working diligently to usurp or constitutional rights behind our backs.

Will the people wake up before it's too late? 

Sadly we all will have to suffer a lot more and by them we may not have the right to throw these fat cats out.

The Chamber is against banking regulations that prevent small business from getting loans,these new regulations are in place to prevent the little guy from getting loans so they can start their own business's or even getting a mortgage to buy a single family home for his family.

Read about the agenda 21 opinion on people owning their own single family home,,,,it makes me sick what these people think of ordinary folks.

Passing "O"care is perfect for controlling the wages and lowering the standard of living for ordinary folks,yes the big employers are cutting their workers hours down to " part time" this is good for big government because people will be forced to ask for help in the form of welfare benefits and such,,places like wall mart HR departments help their employees get those welfare benefits because it keeps wages as low as possible while those people just get by with the help of the government benefits .

Well you can continue to ignore what's really going on,after all why the hell would you believe me?:laughing:


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> ....
> Read about the agenda 21 opinion on people owning their own single family home....
> 
> Well you can continue to ignore what's really going on,after all why the hell would you believe me?:laughing:


You want to be credible, you want people to take you seriously and yet you posted something about agenda 21?

:blink:

Kind of like standing on the street corner preaching wearing a tutu over a wetsuit.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> You want to be credible, you want people to take you seriously and yet you posted something about agenda 21?
> 
> :blink:
> 
> Kind of like standing on the street corner preaching wearing a tutu over a wetsuit.


Like I said read about it, then take a look around your town and you will see many of the things they're doing come right from it,,ever wonder why gasoline has not been less than $3 per gallon in the last 5 years?


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Like I said read about it, then take a look around your town and you will see many of the things they're doing come right from it,,ever wonder why gasoline has not been less than $3 per gallon in the last 5 years?


I am sorry but I cannot take you seriously. Agenda 21? :laughing:

The Easter Bunny is more believable.:thumbup:


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes that is correct labor is expensive , but it's not wages that is the problem,it is IRS regulations and other regulations that are in place to prevent employees from taking home too much cash,yes that's right,in the eyes of the Government working stiffs must be kept a paycheck away from total dependency on the government.
> 
> So what to do,how do we keep the cash away from the ordinary worker?
> 
> ...


 well, way beyond the three sent. thing, but very well said!:thumbup:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

papaotis said:


> well, way beyond the three sent. thing, but very well said!:thumbup:


Yeah I went a little over board...:laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> I am sorry but I cannot take you seriously. Agenda 21? :laughing:
> 
> The Easter Bunny is more believable.:thumbup:


Like I said you can choose to ignore it,but you're the one that brought up "Global Warming/Climate change as if its real when in fact it has been exposed as a hoax.

Sorry but it was created by rich people who want to get richer off of the back of the working stiffs of the world,sorry but it has been debunked that's why the changed the name to" Climate Change".


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Like I said read about it, then take a look around your town and you will see many of the things they're doing come right from it,,ever wonder why gasoline has not been less than $3 per gallon in the last 5 years?


Oh my God you are right!

Gas has not been less than $3.00 a gallon in the past five years. That proves all your wild stories and fears are true. 




:lol::lol::lol:


Harry, I have this feeling you are going to buy a shack in the woods and publish a manifesto.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Yeah I am a real nut job ...:laughing:


Fixed it for you. :whistling2:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

papaotis said:


> well, way beyond the three sent. thing, but very well said!:thumbup:


Too bad it's mostly opinion that cannot be substantiated with facts. 

Well, knowing Harry, he can put facts out there that most people will interpret in a way that disproves Harry's opinion, and Harry will believe it proves his points.

I think Harry is genuinely a decent person. He is just so far to the right that a middle of the road view looks far left to him. Heck, even a moderately right leaning person is way left of Harry. Kind of hard to see the forest with that kind of tree line view.

But, we love you Harry. :laughing:


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes that is correct labor is expensive , but it's not wages that is the problem,it is IRS regulations and other regulations that are in place to prevent employees from taking home too much cash,yes that's right,in the eyes of the Government working stiffs must be kept a paycheck away from total dependency on the government.
> 
> So what to do,how do we keep the cash away from the ordinary worker?
> 
> ...


Wow, this is really the finest collection of pundit talking points ever rendered into one bizarre rant. I am going to print this just so I can remind myself of how defeated people can become when they listen to propaganda 10 hours a day.

The average person, outside of the cable news market, would never be able to assemble all of these favorite anti -American talking points into just a few paragraphs. 
My hat is off to you for showing us exactly how this illogical excrement get extruded.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

eejack said:


> I am sorry but I cannot take you seriously. Agenda 21? :laughing:
> 
> The Easter Bunny is more believable.:thumbup:




Agenda 21 not only exists, it was attended by 178 world leaders in '92

Harry _didn't _make it up

ergo your ad hominem is reduced to a _failed _non sequitur 

~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

jrannis said:


> Wow, this is really the finest collection of pundit talking points ever rendered into one bizarre rant. I am going to print this just so I can remind myself of how defeated people can become when they listen to propaganda 10 hours a day.
> 
> The average person, outside of the cable news market, would never be able to assemble all of these favorite anti -American talking points into just a few paragraphs.
> My hat is off to you for showing us exactly how this illogical excrement get extruded.


The interesting thing is, Harry and i often will come to the _same_ conclusions of defining what is anti-American

Yet Harry is often seen hailing from the right, and i from the left

In fact, there are an entire library of labels to choose from, mostly used by sorts who seek to shoot the messenger

To synopsize, at the end of the day, one either views what is _good_ for one's country as including ALL it's worker ants, or one does not.

And this is exactly what _pisses me off_ about myopic union dealings such as the OP 


~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Harry, I have this feeling you are going to buy a shack in the woods and publish a manifesto.



Or just move to Vermont......:thumbsup:

~CS~


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Agenda 21 not only exists, it was attended by 178 world leaders in '92
> 
> Harry _didn't _make it up
> 
> ...


The prediction was that it would bring out the Coookoo Birds, and I guess it did.:whistling2:

It seems like a think tank type of meeting to me:

nothing in this document compels a state, local or national government to do anything. It is not treaty and it has no force of law.
So why the uproar? Well, it is _true_ that this is a UN document. Presidents and Prime ministers met under the UN umbrella in Rio when they signed this thing. And it is also _true_ that Agenda 21 is a UN document that promotes ideals of environmental sustainability.
So now, groups that oppose local environmental ordinances combine these two kernels of truth to spin a yarn about how the UN is robbing American communities of their liberty. Ranchers who oppose proposed local land use ordinances in rural states, or oil-industry backed groups that seek to undermine public transportation initiatives invoke conspiracy theories to rally people to their cause. These conspiracy theories are simply a tool used by political and economic interests that believe they have something to lose from smart growth initiatives. Accordingly, they taint supporters of bike lanes or smart meters or La Plata, Colorado County Commissioners as foreign agents intent on imposing a UN agenda to rob people of their liberty.
If this sounds crazy, it’s because it is. And it is not going away anytime soon. For one, we can expect local and national political leaders to invoke “Agenda 21″ conspiracies as we enter election season.
- See more at: http://www.undispatch.com/what-is-agenda-21#sthash.gPMMLUel.dpuf
"nothing in this document compels a state, local or national government to do anything. It is not treaty and it has no force of law.
So why the uproar? Well, it is _true_ that this is a UN document. Presidents and Prime ministers met under the UN umbrella in Rio when they signed this thing. And it is also _true_ that Agenda 21 is a UN document that promotes ideals of environmental sustainability.
So now, groups that oppose local environmental ordinances combine these two kernels of truth to spin a yarn about how the UN is robbing American communities of their liberty. Ranchers who oppose proposed local land use ordinances in rural states, or oil-industry backed groups that seek to undermine public transportation initiatives invoke conspiracy theories to rally people to their cause. These conspiracy theories are simply a tool used by political and economic interests that believe they have something to lose from smart growth initiatives. Accordingly, they taint supporters of bike lanes or smart meters or La Plata, Colorado County Commissioners as foreign agents intent on imposing a UN agenda to rob people of their liberty.
If this sounds crazy, it’s because it is. And it is not going away anytime soon. For one, we can expect local and national political leaders to invoke “Agenda 21″ conspiracies as we enter election season."


Translated to Latin for CS: :thumbsup:



nihil in hoc documento cogit status, nationalibus vel loci imperium ad aliquid faciendum. Vim legis non habet et pacem.
Cur ita tumultuantis? Bene verum est quod scriptum est IL. Praesident et occurrit Primam ministri sub umbrella IR in Rio cum hoc signatum. Et etiam verum est quod est Agenda XXI IR documento proposita environmental sustainability promovet.
Nunc ergo, locorum environmental coetus, qui resistunt veritati nuclei legitima haec duo concurrunt ad telas tincto IL est quomodo erepta libertate American civitates eorum. Ranchers qui resistunt veritati loci terra usum propositum judicia in ruris status, aut oleum industria-raptasque coetus quod subvertere publicus transportation incepta invocant coniuratio theoriis ad sese populi ad causam. Hi sunt simpliciter coniuratio theoriis a tool utebantur politicae et oeconomicae utilitates, qui credunt aliquid habent de dolor amittere incepta augmentum. Itaque hi vicos, vel imperdiet bike labe fautores La Plata metris vel, adipiscing comitatum legatorum externorum procuratores impositura intentus a IR propositis praereptam flagitante populo.
Curabitur si hoc sonat, quod est. Non est quisquam abiret. Nam unus potest sperare localium et nationalium, politica principes invocare "Agenda XXI" intrare ut coniurationes comitia tempore.
nothing in this document compels a state, local or national government to do anything. It is not treaty and it has no force of law.
So why the uproar? Well, it is _true_ that this is a UN document. Presidents and Prime ministers met under the UN umbrella in Rio when they signed this thing. And it is also _true_ that Agenda 21 is a UN document that promotes ideals of environmental sustainability.
So now, groups that oppose local environmental ordinances combine these two kernels of truth to spin a yarn about how the UN is robbing American communities of their liberty. Ranchers who oppose proposed local land use ordinances in rural states, or oil-industry backed groups that seek to undermine public transportation initiatives invoke conspiracy theories to rally people to their cause. These conspiracy theories are simply a tool used by political and economic interests that believe they have something to lose from smart growth initiatives. Accordingly, they taint supporters of bike lanes or smart meters or La Plata, Colorado County Commissioners as foreign agents intent on imposing a UN agenda to rob people of their liberty.
If this sounds crazy, it’s because it is. And it is not going away anytime soon. For one, we can expect local and national political leaders to invoke “Agenda 21″ conspiracies as we enter election season.
- See more at: http://www.undispatch.com/what-is-agenda-21#sthash.gPMMLUel.dpuf
nothing in this document compels a state, local or national government to do anything. It is not treaty and it has no force of law.
So why the uproar? Well, it is _true_ that this is a UN document. Presidents and Prime ministers met under the UN umbrella in Rio when they signed this thing. And it is also _true_ that Agenda 21 is a UN document that promotes ideals of environmental sustainability.
So now, groups that oppose local environmental ordinances combine these two kernels of truth to spin a yarn about how the UN is robbing American communities of their liberty. Ranchers who oppose proposed local land use ordinances in rural states, or oil-industry backed groups that seek to undermine public transportation initiatives invoke conspiracy theories to rally people to their cause. These conspiracy theories are simply a tool used by political and economic interests that believe they have something to lose from smart growth initiatives. Accordingly, they taint supporters of bike lanes or smart meters or La Plata, Colorado County Commissioners as foreign agents intent on imposing a UN agenda to rob people of their liberty.
If this sounds crazy, it’s because it is. And it is not going away anytime soon. For one, we can expect local and national political leaders to invoke “Agenda 21″ conspiracies as we enter election season.
- See more at: http://www.undispatch.com/what-is-agenda-21#sthash.gPMMLUel.dpuf


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)




----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I blame the working class people and small businesses, both should be banned.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Wow, this is really the finest collection of pundit talking points ever rendered into one bizarre rant. I am going to print this just so I can remind myself of how defeated people can become when they listen to propaganda 10 hours a day.
> 
> The average person, outside of the cable news market, would never be able to assemble all of these favorite anti -American talking points into just a few paragraphs.
> My hat is off to you for showing us exactly how this illogical excrement get extruded.


Sorry but sticking up for freedom is hardly anti-American,example what the DOJ is trying to do in the Zimmerman case is Anti-American,What Eric Holder said the other day is Anti-American ("We have a duty to retreat")when in fact it is a basic human right to defend and protect our family and our own lives.

Nice try on trying to create a narrative that will stick to your side of the political spectrom in every debate.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Nice try on trying to create a narrative that will stick to your side of the political spectrom in every debate.


Harry, that is hilarious coming from you. That's what you do constantly. :laughing:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I blame the working class people and small businesses, both should be banned.


Yea, big business all the way! Rah rah ree! Big business for me.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Too bad it's mostly opinion that cannot be substantiated with facts.
> 
> Well, knowing Harry, he can put facts out there that most people will interpret in a way that disproves Harry's opinion, and Harry will believe it proves his points.
> 
> ...


I love you too Lou....







:laughing:

If you like freedom then you must get up each day a fight for it,If you give the left a free ride they will revoke your freedom and create an Authoritarian dictatorship which is what they want,,permanent Power,take a look at all the other country's in this world they're all controlled by the left,so if you want freedom then jump in the fight with us,If you want to be controlled every waking hour then don't change anything in your life .


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

http://www.wnd.com/2010/09/200637/

WASHINGTON – Alarms are being raised over what probably is retiring Sen. Christopher Dodd’s last major piece of legislation – the Livable Communities Act, which has been approved by the Senate Banking Committee and now is heading to the Senate floor – for its likely U.N. inspiration and goal of controlling people.



The plan would create a new federal bureaucracy, the Office of Sustainable Housing and Communities, armed with some $4 billion in federal grants, to pressure local communities into a more “green” development agenda.

Detractors say its priorities can be traced back to the U.N., which at an Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992 adopted Agenda 21, outlining the goal of having government control over people.



On its face, the program would have grants to underwrite local community planning efforts that direct actions toward a “sustainable development.”

Dodd, a scandal-plagued Connecticut Democrat, decided last year not to run for re-election in 2010.

The law is promoted as an effort to fight traffic congestion, strip malls and ugly urban sprawl. It would “encourage” local communities to create high-density population centers linked by mass transit networks.

Michael Shaw of Freedom Advocates, a pro-constitutional rights group, told WND, “They call it ‘smart growth.’ It literally means they draw a circle around the community and say nothing will be developed outside of this wall. Land inside the wall goes up in price as shortages develop. You end up with highrises, with people living on the top floors, stores on bottom floors and offices in the middle. Humans wind up living in the sky. They never touch the ground or leave the building.”

The bill, approved by the Senate Banking Committee on a party-line vote in August, “is on a fast track,” said Tom DeWeese, president of the American Policy Center, a grassroots group promoting free markets and limited government.

“The Democrats are doing everything they can before they lose power in the next election. They’re working on a plethora of environmental bills we’ve been fighting for years, things that we thought were dead,” he said.

DeWeese added, “What makes the Dodd bill unique is they’ve mostly done this through executive orders or grant programs, but now this is the first time they’ve put together a federal bill to put this stuff in place.”

Shaw and DeWeese warn of numerous unpublicized consequences of the Livable Communities Act and similar “sustainable development” legislation.

It’s a “socialist trap,” DeWeese said.

“The Office of Sustainable Housing and Communities would end up overseeing development in every community,” he said. “They say it’s voluntary, but it really isn’t. The $4 billion in grants will be used by radical green groups, who helped write it, to force your city council to comply. If your city says no to the pressure to take the grant money, the radical greens will tell your citizens that their city officials are losing them millions of dollars that is owed to the community. Then, when the council caves into the pressure and takes the money, it will force compliance. That is not voluntary, it is blackmail.”

Homeowners would end up paying exorbitant costs and losing control over their own homes, according to DeWeese.

“To get the money, a community must meet environmental standards,” he said. 
“That requires houses to be equipped with new roofs, new windows, and efficient appliances. They did this last year in Oakland. It costs an estimated $35,000 to make a house comply with the environmental regulations. They say homeowners can’t sell their houses if they don’t meet these standards.”

Shaw warned of its Big Brother-type impact.

“It’s the application of new technological breakthroughs to control people,” he said. “Look at the new smart meters sweeping the nation.”

The devices are being marketed as methods for reducing electricity expenses, but Shaw points out that energy companies and bureaucrats end up controlling the temperature in private homes.

Shaw believes the legislation traces back to Agenda 21, the U.N.-sponsored environmental initiative revealed at the Rio de Janeiro Earth Summit in 1992. According to Shaw, Agenda 21 has three main goals: “1. Abolition of private property. 2. Education for global citizenship. 3. Control over human action.”

Shaw, whose organization was created to inform the public about Agenda 21, said, “It originated in the U.N. 178 nations have signed onto it, including the U.S. in 1992. It’s not a treaty, it’s a soft law agreement, so it doesn’t require treaty ratification. George H.W. Bush infused every federal department with sustainable development principles, and they’ve been followed by all three presidents since.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s1619/text


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

jrannis said:


> > Translated to Latin for CS: :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> And i do thank you kind sir, so in turn allow me to translate to pig latin, which is by far and large the most prevalant tounge ...
> ...


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> It’s a “socialist trap,” DeWeese said.



Anything the gub'mit doles out is technically is socialism

the list is inclusive of items you may not necessarily even consider socialist Harry

yet i see anything Dodd does as an excerise in futility

I'm up for launching Dodd and his buddy Frank to plug up those ozone holes , which is about the most viable use our tax $$$ will get from them....~CS~


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I blame the working class people and small businesses, both should be banned.


 no funny faces with this one ?


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Sorry but sticking up for freedom is hardly anti-American...


Part of the reason why you are so gosh darn lovable - you really believe in it - and you really have to respect the amount of effort and dedication you put into it. If only you were not so blinded that you might actually see Harry.

Keep the faith.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> I love you too Lou....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Harry let me start by saying I do agree with Lou, I am sure you are a decent person. No ball busting here, I am serious. 

That said, people on either side as extreme as you are scare me much more than what you want to protect us from. 

I also cannot help but feel that you seem brain washed by the media which is odd as you always complain about the media. :blink:


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

maybe a little behind, but who's lou?:001_huh:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

papaotis said:


> maybe a little behind, but who's lou?:001_huh:


My favorite workingstiff

http://www.electriciantalk.com/members/hardworkingstiff-36/


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

eejack said:


> Part of the reason why you are so gosh darn lovable - you really believe in it - and you really have to respect the amount of effort and dedication you put into it. If only you were not so blinded that you might actually see Harry.
> 
> Keep the faith.


Thanks I will,,,,make sure that you do too,if we all agreed there would be no fun in our discussions would there....


----------

