# Hot tub wiring question/issues



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum.
> 
> Let me just start by saying that I have been in the field for over 10 years. I am extremely disappointed in myself as I have made a rookie mistake. Let me explain...I apologize for being long-winded...
> 
> ...


 

There's no way what you did would burn a pump up. It would simply trip the GFI, if his pump failed immediately, he needed something to blame it on. Bummer for you


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Way for the repairman to throw the electrician right under the bus! Geesh! What a jerk!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I don't see how that could burn the pump up but it may be that the person whom the tub was bought from had someone do some internal wiring that was incorrect and it burned up the original pump. I would call the repairman and ask what he found. My bet it wasn't the breaker being wired wrong.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

not haveing the neutral on the gfi breaker just meant you didn't have gfi protection. you still had short ckt protection via the breaker. I can't imagine a scenario that not having gfi protection would fry the motor unless the motor or motor controls had a major issue. something is very fishy.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

The G.F.I. is not to protect the motor, it is to protect the HO. I can't see how that would have burnt the pump motor. I think maybe the repairman is covering his own a$$ by shifting the blame. It's too bad, the HO will still think it's your fault.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies guys!

I don't know what to do. I'm seriously disgusted by this whole situation.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum.
> 
> Let me just start by saying that I have been in the field for over 10 years. I am extremely disappointed in myself as I have made a rookie mistake. Let me explain...I apologize for being long-winded...
> 
> ...


That is a BIG negative. The neutral connection won't cause the pump to fail. Might even be a 240 volt pump. Your neutral was hooked up fine as far as the motor was concerned.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I don't see how the breaker set up if it was wired wrong?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Some times you have to hook up an older hot tub that people have bought used or brought with them from another location that was never on a gfi. And for whatever reason they won't hold due to a bad sensor or something, I've seen this happen twice.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

The worst part about this is, they want me to give them $450 which was the cost of 2 pumps and labor. I'm not happy about this at all.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I bet it was a bad pump to begin with, and he's charging up the rear and blaming you. Tell them all sorry, but **** you.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> I bet it was a bad pump to begin with, and he's charging up the rear and blaming you. Tell them all sorry, but **** you.


 
Trust me I'd love to! Problem is and I hate to say this, the customer's dad is a quite powerful lawyer and I have a feeling I know where this is all going.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Trust me I'd love to! Problem is and I hate to say this, the customer's dad is a quite powerful lawyer and I have a feeling I know where this is all going.


 

Politely tell them that the GFI is not for equipment protection. It's for people protection. There's no way it was the cause. There was still a breaker in place for pump protection.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

2 other shady details about this...

-The same customer needs a 200 amp service installed. They gave me the option to discount the service instead of giving them cash. IF YOU SUSPECT A CONTRACTOR OF SCREWING SOMETHING UP, WHY WOULD HAVE THEM BACK TO DO MORE WORK ON YOUR HOUSE!!!

-I called the supposed "expert" hot tub repairman and left a message so I could discuss how he thinks I fried 2 pumps. Conveniently, he will not call me back.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Even a good lawyer would have a hard time winning a case against you.
Like everyone said all you forgot to do was provide the required gfi protection. Kinda cut and dry if you ask me.


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## yucan2 (Jun 9, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> 2 other shady details about this...
> 
> -The same customer needs a 200 amp service installed. They gave me the option to discount the service instead of giving them cash. IF YOU SUSPECT A CONTRACTOR OF SCREWING SOMETHING UP, WHY WOULD HAVE THEM BACK TO DO MORE WORK ON YOUR HOUSE!!!
> 
> -I called the supposed "expert" hot tub repairman and left a message so I could discuss how he thinks I fried 2 pumps. Conveniently, he will not call me back.


I would not hold any of this against the customer especially since they still feel comfortable continuing to use you. I know it's a hard pill to swallow. But you know, "bought experience and all that".

I'd do the service upgrade and look for other areas of concern while doing it. Maybe you can make up some of the difference on something else. I don't think I'd burn that bridge. The pump repair guy is the real culprit.

I got burned 2 weeks ago on something similar. I had done a panel change out. You know how you sometimes find the A.C thermostat low voltage control coming into the panel with the A.C. conductors and out thru a poked hole or k.o.? I see it all the time. 

Anyway after the panel install, I forgot to reconnect those thermostat wires. Beginning of A.C season, owner has service. A.C. guys tells owner your electrician forgot to reconnect power to your air conditioner. Power conductors were in fact landed on 2 pole breaker and turned on, unbeknown to the homeowner of course.

This schmuck charged the homeowner $125.00 to connect those 2 wires. I had to eat it. Same homeowner now wants much more additional work. Says just deduct that $125.00 from your price. No problem, its all good. :no:


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

yucan2 said:


> I would not hold any of this against the customer especially since they still feel comfortable continuing to use you. I know it's a hard pill to swallow. But you know, "bought experience and all that".
> 
> I'd do the service upgrade and look for other areas of concern while doing it. Maybe you can make up some of the difference on something else. I don't think I'd burn that bridge. The pump repair guy is the real culprit.
> 
> ...


 
I guess thats the big problem I'm having right now. Even though i know this is not my fault, I have the potential to make a good bit of money from this customer and her siblings in the future as long as I make this right. Hey lets be honest, they're a fairly wealthy family.

I still don't know how to approach this though.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I see the problem but honestly I don't see the problem as yours. Now how do you convince the customer of this?

I would, as I stated before, call the company that repaired the tub. I would ask what specifically was wired incorrectly. You cannot burn out a pump if it isn't running-- at least I don't know how that would be possible. Perhaps the 220 pump was running on 120v but even then it would take awhile rto burn it out. 

It seems obvious to me that if the motor never ran then it cannot be our fault but until you speak to the repairman yourself you will never know what is going on.

I got a call to change the wiring for a hot tub from stranded to solid because the repairman said that was why the tub was not working properly. I did not wire this tub but immediately drove there to meet this guy. I told him his problem was elsewhere- he got beligerent. I called his boss and told him I would be happy to change the wiring but if it did not fix the problem then I expected him to pay for it. 

To make a long story short, he finally came out there to see the situation and immediately realized the problem. I told him his mechanic was not only incompetent but a rude asshole.

He apologized and I went on. I hope you have better success.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Again, I haven't spoken with the hot tub "expert" yet but here is what the homeowner said she was told. She said the guy told her that me putting the neutral in wrong location, it essentially doubled the voltage to the pump and it burned up immediately. I laughed when she told me this!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Send this thread for your customer to read. I have nothing to gain here but I do know that the pump cannot burn up like that.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Again, I haven't spoken with the hot tub "expert" yet but here is what the homeowner said she was told. She said the guy told her that me putting the neutral in wrong location, it essentially doubled the voltage to the pump and it burned up immediately. I laughed when she told me this!


 

First off, that's imposible. Secondly, If he told her it doubled the voltage, it must be 120v pump. As long as you did not terminate it to 240 volt, he's just blowinsmoke. He may have picked up a "sign" from the customer that they "doubted" you. Once he picked up that sign, he might have seen it as a green light to take advantage of them. There quite possibly could be nothing wrong with the first motor he took off. He might not have seen what you did until he had already swapped the motor, by then, he was too "proud" to say that he was wrong on changing the motor. He simply blames it on you. I would have to ask for evidence of the bad motor, and an official explanation from the other company. I would at least read his invoice. He is FOR SURE lying


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would be tempted to make the tub guy come back and in front of the HO and the repairman I would move the neutral from the breaker and install it back where it was to show that it would not blow the pump out. You can't get more proof than that.


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## yucan2 (Jun 9, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I would be tempted to make the tub guy come back and in front of the HO and the repairman I would move the neutral from the breaker and install it back where it was to show that it would not blow the pump out. You can't get more proof than that.


Now that's a good idea. :thumbsup:


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## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

The GFI is ALWAYS connected on the neutral side, load and line. There is no way that you lifted the neutral regardless of whether you had it connected to the load or line terminals.

No manufacturer in their right mind would have the GFI lift the neutral to break the electrical flow, it would be a death sentence.

I like the proof of a reversed hook-up to show the real charlatan.

edit: just make sure he commits to the claim that you had wired the neutral to the neutral side, wrong slot, and not the neutral to the hot side, or he can waffle out of it, since that would lift the neutral. 

Although lifting the neutral would just be like switching it off, so I really don't see an issue.

Neutral lifts are only an issue with MWBC's AFAIK and knob and tube did it regularly with no problem. Around pools it is a real bad idea, of course.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

I have to say that you guys are great on this forum! I'm here to stay after this issue is resolved.

I still have not heard back from the hot tub "expert." I am going to call the homeowner this morning and let them know that their savior isn't cooperating with me.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> I have to say that you guys are great on this forum! I'm here to stay after this issue is resolved.
> 
> I still have not heard back from the hot tub "expert." I am going to call the homeowner this morning and let them know that their savior isn't cooperating with me.


 

If he returns your call, tell him you would like to witness the megger test he used to verify the bad motor windings. 

And the calibration and certifications for the megger he used. 
He'll likely back down


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Again, I haven't spoken with the hot tub "expert" yet but here is what the homeowner said she was told. She said the guy told her that me putting the neutral in wrong location, it essentially doubled the voltage to the pump and it burned up immediately. I laughed when she told me this!


 Think of it this way. You have voltage applied to the hot side of the motor; the return current (neutral) would want to return to the source via the neutral. It will, but since it was not terminated on the breaker first before it proceded to the neutral buss, the breaker trips, causing no damage to a good motor. Most people who want to sue you have a lawyer in the family (for some reason). To prove anything the repairman would have to be called in for a deposition and I'll bet he re-cants. Your embarrassment for having made a simple mistake is your worst problem. As you have done...ask others about the situation...and go back in with confidence and state your case.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Just an added post script; If you still need a little information about legal issues and about how the law works...PM me...I've been locked up a few times myself.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Interesting thread and illustrates a common problem among people who do service work. I saw something similar with an air conditioner and, unfortunately, I know of no way one can defend against it.

AC repairman asks the caller or visits the job to determine what compressor is used, then replaces the compressor because "it failed." Yeah, right.

Lesson learned, double check the job and pay attention and do NOT troubleshoot an appliance if it turns out to not work.

We call it "Getting eaten by a gator when all you did was come to drain the swamp."

I don't know what that means.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Think of it this way. You have voltage applied to the hot side of the motor; the return current (neutral) would want to return to the source via the neutral. It will, but since it was not terminated on the breaker first before it proceded to the neutral buss, the breaker trips, causing no damage to a good motor. Most people who want to sue you have a lawyer in the family (for some reason). To prove anything the repairman would have to be called in for a deposition and I'll bet he re-cants. Your embarrassment for having made a simple mistake is your worst problem. As you have done...ask others about the situation...and go back in with confidence and state your case.


 
Trust me, I am embarrassed for making such a rookie mistake. Everyone makes them though. We are all human. I just don't like when some A#&hole hot tub guy causes me to doubt myself to the point that I almost admit guilt. Obviously, I remained calm and realized that yes, I made a stupid mistake but that mistake did not cause the damage that I am being accused of.


One question though...When I wired the breaker that way, should it have tripped just because I wired it incorrectly? Reason I ask, why didn't it trip when I disconnected the wiring from the bad motor? Or was it tripping because of a short inside the motor? You can read about this in my original post.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Trust me, I am embarrassed for making such a rookie mistake. Everyone makes them though. We are all human. I just don't like when some A#&hole hot tub guy causes me to doubt myself to the point that I almost admit guilt. Obviously, I remained calm and realized that yes, I made a stupid mistake but that mistake did not cause the damage that I am being accused of.
> 
> 
> One question though...When I wired the breaker that way, should it have tripped just because I wired it incorrectly? Reason I ask, why didn't it trip when I disconnected the wiring from the bad motor? Or was it tripping because of a short inside the motor? You can read about this in my original post.


Inside the breaker there is a comparator circuit. It compares the current draw on the hot wire and compares it to the current on the neutral wire. With no current on the circuit because the motor is disconnected there is nothing to compare. It could have been trying to trip because of a short but I believe that the neutral misconnected would have tripped it faster measured in cycles per second. You did not mess up the motor.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Makes perfect sense to me. You should not be held responsible for problems you did not cause.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Inside the breaker there is a comparator circuit. It compares the current draw on the hot wire and compares it to the current on the neutral wire. With no current on the circuit because the motor is disconnected there is nothing to compare. It could have been trying to trip because of a short but I believe that the neutral misconnected would have tripped it faster measured in cycles per second. You did not mess up the motor.


 
There was still current on the circuit though. There were 2 other pumps and lighting that were working after I disconnected the faulty pump. Thats why I don't understand why it didn't trip at that point.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> There was still current on the circuit though. There were 2 other pumps and lighting that were working after I disconnected the faulty pump. Thats why I don't understand why it didn't trip at that point.


Chances are the original pump was bad; And there is a chance that the tub guy did not find anything improperly wired. You may not have made a ROOKIE mistake, after all. Stand your ground. Use the knowledge you've gotten here and be authoritative in telling them that you did not damage the motor. You know you are right and they should see it in your eyes. If I did not know 100% that I was wrong, I would not pay for the new motor.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

waco said:


> Interesting thread and illustrates a common problem among people who do service work. I saw something similar with an air conditioner and, unfortunately, I know of no way one can defend against it.
> 
> AC repairman asks the caller or visits the job to determine what compressor is used, then replaces the compressor because "it failed." Yeah, right.
> 
> ...


You are right. You definitely have to look around the job for obvious problems before you tear into it. I was called about a central air not cooling after a while. When I got there they said that another AC guy had replaced the compressor the week before. It turned out to be a stretched belt on the blower motor. You just have to know what to look for and don't get in such a hurry to get done that you second guess yourself.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Chances are the original pump was bad; And there is a chance that the tub guy did not find anything improperly wired. You may not have made a ROOKIE mistake, after all. Stand your ground. Use the knowledge you've gotten here and be authoritative in telling them that you did not damage the motor. You know you are right and they should see it in your eyes. If I did not know 100% that I was wrong, I would not pay for the new motor.


 

I will admit, I know for a fact that I did wire the neutral incorrectly. But I also know for a fact that I am not responsible for the burned up motors. I should not be second guessing myself like I have been. But I am still curious how the improperly wired GFCI breaker did not trip when the faulty motor was removed from the circuit. This one is driving me nuts!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> I will admit, I know for a fact that I did wire the neutral incorrectly. But I also know for a fact that I am not responsible for the burned up motors. I should not be second guessing myself like I have been. But I am still curious how the improperly wired GFCI breaker did not trip when the faulty motor was removed from the circuit. This one is driving me nuts!


I have a GFCI in my yard that worked for a few times and after a while it quit GFCIing but still powers my weed whacker. Maybe the GFCI part has stopped working as mine did. Maybe the breaker was bad from the start as in it's GFCI duties. If that is the case the breaker originally tripped because of a faulty motor. Still, you did not burn the motor up.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I have a GFCI in my yard that worked for a few times and after a while it quit GFCIing but still powers my weed whacker. Maybe the GFCI part has stopped working as mine did. Maybe the breaker was bad from the start as in it's GFCI duties. If that is the case the breaker originally tripped because of a faulty motor. Still, you did not burn the motor up.


 

I still think its funny how the hot tub guy won't call me back. When I spoke with the homeowner this morning about the repairman not calling me back, she quickly made excuses for him not calling. Very strange


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> I still think its funny how the hot tub guy won't call me back. When I spoke with the homeowner this morning about the repairman not calling me back, she quickly made excuses for him not calling. Very strange


Just walk away, unless they have not paid you for your job. If that is the case, I would give them 30 days to pay or file a lein against the property and try to forget about it.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Just walk away, unless they have not paid you for your job. If that is the case, I would give them 30 days to pay or file a lein against the property and try to forget about it.


 

They offered me discounting the 200 amp service that they want installed. Like I said before, they want $460 to cover the 2 replacement motors and labor to install them. Obviously, I am not giving them anything for the motors. Basically I was going to maybe give them a SMALL discount on the service just to show that I am sorry for hooking up their disconnect improperly. Nothing more than that though.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Fight it.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> They offered me discounting the 200 amp service that they want installed. Like I said before, they want $460 to cover the 2 replacement motors and labor to install them. Obviously, I am not giving them anything for the motors. Basically I was going to maybe give them a SMALL discount on the service just to show that I am sorry for hooking up their disconnect improperly. Nothing more than that though.


There is a real world out here and if anyone says that they are sorry for something that did not cause any damage, or was of no consequence they are admitting guilt. If they don't owe you any serious money...run for the hills because they will get you on something else.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> There is a real world out here and if anyone says that they are sorry for something that did not cause any damage, or was of no consequence they are admitting guilt. If they don't owe you any serious money...run for the hills because they will get you on something else.


 
Yeah you're absolutely correct. Its just a shame it had to be this way. This customer's whole family have been great customers over the years. Just a shame.


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## sentinal (Jun 28, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> The worst part about this is, they want me to give them $450 which was the cost of 2 pumps and labor. I'm not happy about this at all.


 the pump is just a moter....ask the "repair man " to explain to you and the homeowner how this is possible to burn out


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

go direct to the manufacturer (without any of the parties involved knowing) and get their technical department to explain to you exactly how the miswiring you did could result in a burned out motor. I bet they tell you that it couldn't happen. If you can get that in a letter from the manufacturer, set up a meeting with homeowner and the motor guy and settle it. you need to prove to these people, and make them understand that you didn't burn the motor out because they don't believe you. get another motor and physically show them if you have to by running the motor.


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## Murphy (Dec 10, 2009)

yea its a shame how the customers dont understand.. They look at you like your crazy when you try to explain to them how something works. Sorry for your situation.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

No matter what, I am sure the homeowner feels stupid right now conidering the hot tub "expert" told them to have me call them for better explaination and he hasn't called back. I'm assuming he never thought that I actually would call. I made it very clear to them that I was not doing anything unless I talk to him since he changed my wiring.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Well, the hot tub expert finally called me back. Unfortunately, I was unable to answer the phone but he did leave a voicemail. He said that the pumps that burned out were 120 volt pumps. He claims that when I wired the neutral incorrectly it put 240 volts across the pump and fried it instantly. I don't see how this is possible.

Could the coiled neutral thats always attached to GFCI breakers have caused a problem being as though it was hooked up to the neutral busbar also? I don't see it could have.

I just want eliminate all possibilities before I give the customer the bad news.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Well, the hot tub expert finally called me back. Unfortunately, I was unable to answer the phone but he did leave a voicemail. He said that the pumps that burned out were 120 volt pumps. He claims that when I wired the neutral incorrectly it put 240 volts across the pump and fried it instantly. I don't see how this is possible.


Just for ****s and giggles why not take a 120 volt motor you have laying around and duplicate the scenario. Maybe it will ease your conscience


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> .............Could the coiled neutral thats always attached to GFCI breakers have caused a problem being as though it was hooked up to the neutral busbar *also*? I don't see it could have............



What did you do with the neutral that went to the unit? Did you land it on the breaker or on the neutral bar?


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

480sparky said:


> What did you do with the neutral that went to the unit? Did you land it on the breaker or on the neutral bar?


 
Are you talking about the disconnect or the hottub itself?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> Are you talking about the disconnect or the hottub itself?



You have a GFCI breaker. It feeds a load. Does that load have a neutral? If so, where did you land the neutral for the load...... on the breaker or on the neutral bar?


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Just for ****s and giggles why not take a 120 volt motor you have laying around and duplicate the scenario. Maybe it will ease your conscience


 
I would if I had a motor laying around. I just threw a few of them out a few months ago.

Should I even be doubting myself?


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

480sparky said:


> You have a GFCI breaker. It feeds a load. Does that load have a neutral? If so, where did you land the neutral for the load...... on the breaker or on the neutral bar?


 
On the neutral busbar, not the breaker. I know I made this mistake. I just don't understand how it could have caused a pump to fail.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> I would if I had a motor laying around. I just threw a few of them out a few months ago.
> 
> Should I even be doubting myself?


Try a hair dryer. I don't think that you should be doubting yourself but it is you that must be convinced.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> On the neutral busbar, not the breaker. I know I made this mistake. I just don't understand how it could have caused a pump to fail.


The GFCI should have tripped if the load's neutral was not on the breaker. It may be a defective breaker... did you test it by using the test button on it?


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

480sparky said:


> The GFCI should have tripped if the load's neutral was not on the breaker. It may be a defective breaker... did you test it by using the test button on it?


 
Yes, I did hit the test button and it worked. When I removed the faulty pump from the circuit, the breaker stopped tripping. You can read all about it in my original post in this thread. The problem is, the customer is claiming that the faulty wired neutral caused a 120v pump to fail. But none of the low voltage electronics, 120v lighting and 2 other pumps on the hot tub were affected by it.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Try a hair dryer. I don't think that you should be doubting yourself but it is you that must be convinced.


 

Yeah you're right. I guess I'm reacting this way becasuse in 10 years, I've never been accused of something like this.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> Yes, I did hit the test button and it worked. When I removed the faulty pump from the circuit, the breaker stopped tripping. You can read all about it in my original post in this thread. The problem is, the customer is claiming that the faulty wired neutral caused a 120v pump to fail. But none of the low voltage electronics, 120v lighting and 2 other pumps on the hot tub were affected by it.


Is there just one breaker for the unit? One 50a?


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Is there just one breaker for the unit? One 50a?


 
Yes, just one breaker.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Is there just one breaker for the unit? One 50a?


 
Let me rephrase, 1 breaker in the main panel + 1 GFCI breaker in the disconnect


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

well this is good news - have the guy write down what he told you. Unless you did something that you are not telling us, there is no way possible that you put 240 accross the motor. You need to make this clear to the homeowner after you get that info in writing from the "expert". and you can prove it to everyone by wiring back as original and reading the voltage at the motor.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> Let me rephrase, 1 breaker in the main panel + 1 GFCI breaker in the disconnect


Strange indeed. The GFCI should have tripped upon being energized.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Strange indeed. The GFCI should have tripped upon being energized.


 I think that is exactly what happened.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I think that is exactly what happened.


 
Thats whats strange. The GFCI tripped until I removed the faulty pump from the circuit. Then the breaker held and everything else on the hot tub worked.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

wildleg said:


> well this is good news - have the guy write down what he told you. Unless you did something that you are not telling us, there is no way possible that you put 240 accross the motor. You need to make this clear to the homeowner after you get that info in writing from the "expert". and you can prove it to everyone by wiring back as original and reading the voltage at the motor.


 
I was just thinking about this. I wouldn't even have to read the voltage at the motor. I could disconnect the quick disconnect again from the control panel of the hot tub and just read across the pins of the quick disconnect. The only reason I would do it this way is because I'm sure the homeowner will be paranoid about blowing another motor so if I take it out of the circuit, maybe she'll be more receptive to me giving her a visual of only 120 volts going to the motor.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Are you sure the motor is only 120v. I would have guessed it was 240v. Don't you have a 50 amp dp breaker feeding the tub?


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Are you sure the motor is only 120v. I would have guessed it was 240v. Don't you have a 50 amp dp breaker feeding the tub?


 
To be honest, I am not certain if the pump is 120 or 240. I am only going by what I was told. And yes there is a 50 amp DP breaker feeding the hot tub.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

No offense, but it sounds like you're in over your head now.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No offense, but it sounds like you're in over your head now.


I guess if you put the wiring back the way it was and fry another motor you'll know for sure.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

480sparky said:


> No offense, but it sounds like you're in over your head now.


 
How exactly am I in over my head? Because I don't know every component of the hot tub? Whether the pump is 120v or 240v doesn't matter. I don't believe what the hot tub repairman claims is possible.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> How exactly am I in over my head? Because I don't know every component of the hot tub? Whether the pump is 120v or 240v doesn't matter. I don't believe what the hot tub repairman claims is possible.



don't get pissed because you didn't do your job.


If you worked for me I would have expected you to tear that thing apart and check the voltages where they lay, wire it in correctly and tell me what the voltages were then, inspect every motor and connection point and write down the voltages before and after, and write down the info from all the motors and devices, and take some pics. If it turned out that it wasn't your fault, you would still get an ass chewing for the wiring you did. This thread has been going on for days and you still don't know for sure if you burned out the motor. something is wrong with that, and so 480s comment makes a lot of sense.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

wildleg said:


> I guess if you put the wiring back the way it was and fry another motor you'll know for sure.


 
Honestly, how should I approach the customer? Being as though they think I'm guilty, I doubt that they're going to let me switch the wiring back to the way it was and prove to them that nothing is wrong.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm not pissed at all. I admit that I screwed up. I've never been in a situation like this.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

I hate to say this, but, YOU screwed up ( unintentionally ), and that is what caused all the hassle. Explain it to the H O , but I think you may have to bite the bullet on this one.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I guess one option is jack em on the service change. Of course, if they are scamming you then something is gonna go wrong with that and you'll have to pay for a computer or plasma tv also. tough call.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

wildleg said:


> I guess one option is jack em on the service change. Of course, if they are scamming you then something is gonna go wrong with that and you'll have to pay for a computer or plasma tv also. tough call.


 
I honestly don't think they are scamming me. I've done a lot of work for this lady's family members the last couple of years and they are all good people. I think the hottub guy is scamming them and he put the blame on me and they believe him because he saw that I made a simple mistake. I'd like to make this right with the customer, even though I don't believe that I am at fault.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> How exactly am I in over my head? Because I don't know every component of the hot tub? Whether the pump is 120v or 240v doesn't matter. I don't believe what the hot tub repairman claims is possible.


You don't think you're in over your head?

You don't know if the pump is 120 or 240....... that speaks volumes right there.

Why are you poking around in the tub itself, taking things out, putting things back in, changing connections etc.? Your responsibility stops at the terminals.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Well, I decided to take one for the team and offered the homeowner a reduced priced for the 200 amp service that they need installed. I know some of you won't agree with me going this route but I did not want to lose a customer. After I told them I was giving them a discount, they asked me to do about another $600-$700 worth of business so the hit I took on the service doesn't seem as bad.

Thank you all for helping me with all of this!

I learned a lot from this whole situation...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> How exactly am I in over my head? Because I don't know every component of the hot tub? Whether the pump is 120v or 240v doesn't matter. I don't believe what the hot tub repairman claims is possible.


I agree with you no matter what the pump voltage is , and I suspect it is 240V, there is no way you could have burned it up. The motor never ran so WTF. I suspect there is more going on here then meets the eye. I think the pump guy had a bad motor and is blaming someone when he could easily have taken it back as defective.


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