# Furloughs????? Anyone



## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Came up in a meeting here recently. It had been brought up in a negotiation once, but the contractors would not even discuss it. I can see their point, once you have a crew you are happy with what would you gain switching even a portion every 6 months. I think the bigger locals have a stronger place to negotiate from, thus it can happen in some of those cities.

Definately could be a good thing for members out in an economy like this, where work may be a long way out.


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## sparkall (Feb 11, 2010)

480volts said:


> With so many members out (over 900) in our local (102 NJ), why is it that we cannot implement a furlough system? 6 Months on and 6 months OFF? Everyone would get a little bit to eat, keep some bennies, and unemployment? I asked that one time to someone pretty high up and said "Oh only big locals do that" i DIGRESS.


It's been said many times, the IO won't allow furloughs, that's all there is to it, there is nothing that can be done.

Local 3 does it because they are huge and powerful and were able to make demands to the IO, local 102 isn't making any demands and never will. 

I notice you are from PA, are you buddies with that guy who keeps running for business manager?

As for the rest of your post, the answer is because we are weak. We should take some cues from 164.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480volts said:


> With so many members out (over 900) in our local (102 NJ), why is it that we cannot implement a furlough system? 6 Months on and 6 months OFF? Everyone would get a little bit to eat, keep some bennies, and unemployment? I asked that one time to someone pretty high up and said "Oh only big locals do that" i DIGRESS. NOW on the issue of PORTABILITY: we have to keep OUR members working when times are bad. IF the contractors don't have enough work for their out of town guys, then back to the hall. Thats right THE HALL. NOt sitting home waiting for a call. I personally know of a LOCAL in NJ that wouldnt accept portability for get this; ONE DAY!! thats right one day, he had a local man out there for one day. WHy can't we do the same?????? It's getting to point where it is OLD.



Furlough's do not work in the long run we(local 98 in Philadelphia)Tried them in the early 90's when work was as bad if not worse then it is now. What we have done is to cancel overtime(hire more help if needed)and implemented more shift work.We are also pursuing work as aggressively as ever(especially prevailing wage).You have to ask yourself are your members out of work because there is none?If there's work but your not getting it then the officers are not doing there jobs.

We have 5000 members with around 700 JW and 90 apprentices out of work right now.The average wait for the guy's out of work right now is between 6-8 months.What we have done is carry the H&W for the out of work members and we have an unemployment fund in case your unemployment runs out.We also allow guy's to work short call(2 weeks and keep your spot on the list)But this practice is limited to one per contractor.(A couple of contractors were trying to take advantage).

Financially were in good shape,were getting any job that pop's up and were taking care of the out of work members.Times are tough and there's no clear answer.As far as I'm concerned NO travelers when there's members sitting out.Any contractors that are caught not playing buy the rules(working out of towners)have been dealt with severely,this goes for members as well.The only way to remain strong is to stay united.


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## sparkall (Feb 11, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> We have 5000 members with around 700 JW and 90 apprentices out of work right now.The average wait for the guy's out of work right now is between 6-8 months.


The problem with local 102 is that with a similar amount of guys out of work, we are looking at 18+ months to be sent out. 6-8 months wait like your local would be paradise to our members.

I know a couple of guys who have been riding the bench for years. These guys are real go-getters, the "A" team when they were working. Times got slow and they had to take a layoff. A year and a half later they are sent out to a 3 month job, then another layoff and another year and half wait. Right now I believe it is closer to 2 years wait. 

What can be done?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

sparkall said:


> The problem with local 102 is that with a similar amount of guys out of work, we are looking at 18+ months to be sent out. 6-8 months wait like your local would be paradise to our members.
> 
> I know a couple of guys who have been riding the bench for years. These guys are real go-getters, the "A" team when they were working. Times got slow and they had to take a layoff. A year and a half later they are sent out to a 3 month job, then another layoff and another year and half wait. Right now I believe it is closer to 2 years wait.
> 
> What can be done?



What are your officers doing?Are the stewards any good?With this amount of time off I like to see if other "brothers" are working overtime.
Is the contract being held up by the contractors?Is the local enforcing the rules?Are they getting the work or is the non-union running your jurisdiction?

FWIW I've worked with a couple 102 guy's before(are locals border each other)They were stand up guy's.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

sparkall said:


> These guys are real go-getters, the "A" team when they were working. Times got slow and they had to take a layoff. A year and a half later they are sent out to a 3 month job, then another layoff and another year and half wait.
> 
> What can be done?


Isn't that the biggest load of crap? The referral system is my biggest complaint. It needs to be solicit-own-job.

I really empathize with the guys who get fed up. The only way out I've seen is to solicit office work while waiting on the books. Hell No I don't want to do take-offs for the next two years!


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Isn't that the biggest load of crap? The referral system is my biggest complaint. It needs to be solicit-own-job.
> 
> I really empathize with the guys who get fed up. The only way out I've seen is to solicit office work while waiting on the books. Hell No I don't want to do take-offs for the next two years!



That's what we do here in 98,it's not without rules though the die hards would have you believe that if you solicit your a "wormy bottom feeder".

We have 50/50 plan.If the contractor hires through solicitation the next hire has to be of the list.If guy's are caught transferring with out the halls approval they get placed to the back of the list.If contractors are caught breaking the rules,they get brought up on serious charges with the local and the NLRB since it would breach the contract.

Go check out the IBEW Friends and Family Network,you should hear what these guy's say about locals who have solicitation.They treat you worse then hitler.


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## sparky131 (Mar 11, 2010)

In local 48 they istituted a 90 day call to help with 18 month out of workers. It seems guys won't take a 3 week call when a short call is 2 weeks. The 90 day call basically made the short call 90 days. Sounds like junk, but it got guys turned around in 6 to 8 months instead of 12 to 18.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

What that means is: a man is guaranteed 90 calendar days of work each time he cycles through the books. 

That also means, if he worked two weeks for a contractor, then was asked to sit out monday thru wednesday, that those three days count against him on that 90. He's better off going back to the hall and returning under a sixty day recall.

Its a great thing, but I would not call moving up the list 115 in nine months when theres over 700, thats not what I call moving.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

One of my esteemed fellow contractors tried this, and worked out a way to furlough some of his electricians. When the local found out about it, they filed charges on him, and accused him of subverting the referral process.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

The word selfish comes to mind although it hardly seems to go hand in hand with the whole "brotherhood" facade.


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## sparky131 (Mar 11, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> What that means is: a man is guaranteed 90 calendar days of work each time he cycles through the books.
> 
> That also means, if he worked two weeks for a contractor, then was asked to sit out monday thru wednesday, that those three days count against him on that 90. He's better off going back to the hall and returning under a sixty day recall.
> 
> Its a great thing, but I would not call moving up the list 115 in nine months when theres over 700, thats not what I call moving.


 
You missed the point. Moving 115 in 9 months was not the issue. It was keeping people from losing medical benefits, unemployment insurance ect.. At the time there was a lot of work(4 yrs ago) but not LONG work. SO almost everyone got work, even the back of the book. Before this a guy could sit at #1 as long as he wanted, so they also put a 3 strike rule in place. Contractors are not allowed to furlough , and honestly it is against the ideals of being Union. I would not take one even when I was an apprentice. FYI an Illinois local has 0 book 1 and 1600 book 2. Couple of large projects going on, one being a Conoco Refinery. Have not researched much further, but with 1600 bk 2, something is going for sure.


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## narrowback (Mar 23, 2010)

Furloughs are wormey......You heard me, I said they are for worms.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

narrowback said:


> Furloughs are wormey......You heard me, I said they are for worms.


Very nice first post:blink:


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## narrowback (Mar 23, 2010)

BDB said:


> Very nice first post:blink:


 Thank you


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## gmbjr (Mar 25, 2010)

sparkall said:


> The problem with local 102 is that with a similar amount of guys out of work, we are looking at 18+ months to be sent out. 6-8 months wait like your local would be paradise to our members.
> 
> I know a couple of guys who have been riding the bench for years. These guys are real go-getters, the "A" team when they were working. Times got slow and they had to take a layoff. A year and a half later they are sent out to a 3 month job, then another layoff and another year and half wait. Right now I believe it is closer to 2 years wait.
> 
> What can be done?


I dunno, I've worked out of your local years ago....It's easier for us to see a light at the end of the tunnel due to the sheer size of our city and surrounding area. Buildings are knocked down and high rises put in their place. high rise hotels, convention center expansions, new buildings for the many hospitals and universities here....

How to turn things around in a smaller city leaves me stumped.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I would love a furlough day right now.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

frasbee said:


> i would love a furlough day right now.


 me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

The only place I have witnessed that furloughs work was local#3 where one of their 3 annuitys pay them $500 (it has been years since I worked there so do not know the exact amount now) a week plus another $500 or so unemployment. My understaning is they swap out every 6 months. With that said I do not agree with furloughs for I have seen contractors and workers abuse it. One of the basic ideals of the IBEW is we take turns at work by an out of work list to allow all a chance to feed their families and to build up their benefits.We sign the book wait our turn, take the job we want, build the said job, get laid off move on to another book signing tour. Contractors have allot to loose when they bid work and I can appreciate that furloughs would help them in dire situations but where would the line be drawn when it is a dire situation? Being an construction electrician was a choice that I made a very young age, knowing the ups and downs of the trade I have come to enjoy traveling the country in search of work and on occassion, cutting grass or wood, I even did head liners once to survive in between jobs.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Ummmmm.... yeah.........

Back to reality......

Bro. Noah, you come across as what 85% of the IBEW refers to as 'hall trash.'


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Ummmmm.... yeah.........
> 
> Back to reality......
> 
> Bro. Noah, you come across as what 85% of the IBEW refers to as 'hall trash.'


I do believe in working hard and productive in an effort to earn a living and to make the contractor money as well.I also consider my IBEW ethics in order. I have had the opportunity to travel to all but 5 states in the USA, therefore have been referred to by many names.


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