# What would you do?



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Call the business agent and discuss this with him. 

Sometimes you will find odd transitioning periods like this.

If there is no steward on the job, the BA is who you should be speaking to. Explain the situation without sounding like you are complaining and ready to give up.


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## no.use.for.a.name (Jul 1, 2016)

Thanks, I got a buddy who is a inside wireman and has told me to drag up and get my pink slip but not sure if that's the route I wanna go this whole thing is new to me thanks for advice


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard! Give the BA a call and give it a chance, you should be happy once you get settled in.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Don't listen to your friend. He will have you kicked out before you get started. Hang in there and do your best. Your getting paid so it doesn't matter. Talk to your BA though and let him know what's going on.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

dawgs said:


> Don't listen to your friend. He will have you kicked out before you get started. Hang in there and do your best. Your getting paid so it doesn't matter. Talk to your BA though and let him know what's going on.


Agree. Actually sounds like a pretty good gig. No one in charge! :laughing:
Heck, tell them you are the foreman.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> Agree. Actually sounds like a pretty good gig. No one in charge! :laughing:
> Heck, tell them you are the foreman.


That could really be a good thing for a take charge guy.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> Agree. Actually sounds like a pretty good gig. No one in charge! :laughing:
> Heck, tell them you are the foreman.


And probably the first one fired


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sparky970 said:


> And probably the first one fired


Big position, big risks!


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## Sparky Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

It's interesting and such a different world to see how things work in different parts of the country. 

In my local, you get the name of the foreman when you pick up a call. And that foreman is always an IBEW member and almost always an A card JW. If an engineer or a GC or anyone outside the IBEW wants to direct the men, he or she has to do that through the foreman.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Sparky Girl said:


> It's interesting and such a different world to see how things work in different parts of the country.
> 
> In my local, you get the name of the foreman when you pick up a call. And that foreman is always an IBEW member and almost always an A card JW. If an engineer or a GC or anyone outside the IBEW wants to direct the men, he or she has to do that through the foreman.


And it gets so strict in some locals that even the owner of the company can't direct his own men. Hell, either can a general foreman. He has to pass the orders down to the foremen and sub-foremen.


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## Sparky Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

HackWork said:


> And it gets so strict in some locals that even the owner of the company can't direct his own men. Hell, either can a general foreman. He has to pass the orders down to the foremen and sub-foremen.


I'm 701 but I also worked in 134 (Chicago), 150 and 176. Superintendents (Area GFs in my local) and GFs can direct the JWs. Their foreman isn't about to tell their boss not to.

But there was one job I ran in my local where the 134 super could only speak through me to direct the men. It was a stupid rule created by the guy I replaced because he had a bug up his butt toward the super. I didn't enforce it when I took over. You accomplish more with negotiation and diplomacy than with brute force. Funny thing is the EC pulled the super a few weeks after I took over the job.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Sparky Girl said:


> I'm 701 but I also worked in 134 (Chicago), 150 and 176. Superintendents (Area GFs in my local) and GFs can direct the JWs. Their foreman isn't about to tell their boss not to.


 No, but the JW will.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Sparky Girl said:


> I'm 701 but I also worked in 134 (Chicago), 150 and 176. Superintendents (Area GFs in my local) and GFs can direct the JWs. Their foreman isn't about to tell their boss not to.
> 
> But there was one job I ran in my local where the 134 super could only speak through me to direct the men. It was a stupid rule created by the guy I replaced because he had a bug up his butt toward the super. I didn't enforce it when I took over. You accomplish more with negotiation and diplomacy than with brute force. Funny thing is the EC pulled the super a few weeks after I took over the job.


Lord knows that's the truth. A chain of command is necessary but if the guy paying the bills tells you that you're pants are on fire and you ignore it things are out of control.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

HackWork said:


> And it gets so strict in some locals that even the owner of the company can't direct his own men. Hell, either can a general foreman. He has to pass the orders down to the foremen and sub-foremen.


I was on a job like that. I'd often be standing by the GF and the foreman and get to hear the same instructions repeated twice as they made it down the chain to me.


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## Brain John (Jul 15, 2016)

I was in Hawaii and asked an apprentice to do something and he totally ignored me. I wanted him to hand me a power tool, so I could inspect it. I was told by the JW he did not have to answer to me as I was the owner not the foreman.

This was on a 5-man job.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Brain John said:


> I was in Hawaii and asked an apprentice to do something and he totally ignored me. I wanted him to hand me a power tool, so I could inspect it. I was told by the JW he did not have to answer to me as I was the owner not the foreman.
> 
> This was on a 5-man job.


I'd be calculating some form of recourse, like a paycheck delay for BS like that.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Brain John said:


> I was in Hawaii and asked an apprentice to do something and he totally ignored me. I wanted him to hand me a power tool, so I could inspect it. I was told by the JW he did not have to answer to me as I was the owner not the foreman.
> 
> This was on a 5-man job.


Wtf.... insane.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Wtf.... insane.


It does sound bad, huh? But those are the rules that he agreed to when he signed the dotted line.

The truth is that it really isn't as bad as it sounds. The owner of the company should be out doing business, not electrical work. When he walks thru a jobsite every once in a while, he waves and says hello, he has no reason to direct the electrician. Thinking back to my 15+ years on union sites, it was very odd to see the owner on a job and the few times that I did they would mainly stick to the office trailers.

It's similar with General Foremen, they always sat in the office trailer or office all day. The only time they left was to go to someone else's office. The 3-4 times that they walked thru a jobsite, they would just look around and say hello to the workers.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

As long as there are no safety concerns, your better off just blending in and do your best to stay busy. 


You start calling people your gonna be labeled a trouble maker.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> It does sound bad, huh? But those are the rules that he agreed to when he signed the dotted line.
> 
> The truth is that it really isn't as bad as it sounds. The owner of the company should be out doing business, not electrical work. When he walks thru a jobsite every once in a while, he waves and says hello, he has no reason to direct the electrician. Thinking back to my 15+ years on union sites, it was very odd to see the owner on a job and the few times that I did they would mainly stick to the office trailers.
> 
> It's similar with General Foremen, they always sat in the office trailer or office all day. The only time they left was to go to someone else's office. The 3-4 times that they walked thru a jobsite, they would just look around and say hello to the workers.



The truth is it is just rude outside of Union regs or rules. There is common decency over playing the game. If I was paying the bills and a guy that didn't answer me, he would be replaced.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The truth is it is just rude outside of Union regs or rules. There is common decency over playing the game. If I was paying the bills and a guy that didn't answer me, he would be replaced.


I agree, in Brian John's situation that guy was out of line. There was absolutely no reason to do that. It was stupid and without purpose. If Brian John kept giving the guys orders and it became an issue for some reason, then one of the seniors guys should have pulled him to the side and asked if he could work with the chain of command. 

Sometimes things get bad in territories. Contractors start getting strict and going exactly by the books, so the workers start doing the same. In the end it sucks for both sides.

Rules are generally made to cover all conditions, so they can be harsh and strict. If both sides are willing to use intelligent and fair discretion, breaking some of the rules usually works better.

Some people are just asses. They won't do anything that they consider "breaking conditions" at all, even when it ends up hurting them.

An example off of the top of my head, we work at a jobsite for 4 months, we get paid to 3:30 like normal, but in actuality we are in our truck driving home by 3:15 everyday, Fridays even earlier. So we are getting lots of free time, the contractor is reasonable.

Then one day Cooper arrives at 6:50AM with a big load. Some of the guys get out of their truck to help unload it. But there will always be the guys bitching that we start at 7AM and if anyone touches the material they will call the hall. Then we get a lecture on how it starts small but soon the contractor will have us working at 6:30 every day 

So you know what happens, the owner caught wind of it and said that we will not step off of that jobsite until 3:30 ever again. One second before and we are fired. I couldn't blame him. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.


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