# Just a little butcher work in progress......



## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Looks good!

I will never understand why the ceilings are strapped. Seems to be popular in the Northeast :blink:


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

I've only seen it done with trusses 24" on center tbh


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Looks good!
> 
> I will never understand why the ceilings are strapped. Seems to be popular in the Northeast :blink:


It makes new work can lights a pita because you have build them down so the rim of the cans will be flush with the Sheetrock. 

I've never seen new work without the strapping.

The strapping makes it easy for fishing a cross ceilings though..


----------



## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> It makes new work can lights a pita because you have build them down so the rim of the cans will be flush with the Sheetrock.
> 
> I've never seen new work without the strapping.
> 
> The strapping makes it easy for fishing a cross ceilings though..


Check *HERE* Harry, it may help you out. We've been selling them so much our supplier has started giving us a discount for making him look awesome to his regional manager lol.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

The_Modifier said:


> Check *HERE* Harry, it may help you out. We've been selling them so much our supplier has started giving us a discount for making him look awesome to his regional manager lol.


He may as well use remodel cans on trim out since the ones you show still need the full diameter clearance from joists in order to fit. Unless he is installing one with 1.5" clearance above it.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> He may as well use remodel cans on trim out since the ones you show still need the full diameter clearance from joists in order to fit. Unless he is installing one with 1.5" clearance above it.


Pffft. You use the nail shoes on the can frames and use romex staples to attach them to strapping. Easy peasy. They hold just fine. 

Strapping is awesome. Old work fishing is easy peasy, since there is little drilling needed, and in new work you staple the romex between the strapping, since the joists are no longer a nailing surface. Soooper easy, especially with trusses.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Besides, with the halo new work cans you can lower the housing level with sheetrock later.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

The_Modifier said:


> Check *HERE* Harry, it may help you out. We've been selling them so much our supplier has started giving us a discount for making him look awesome to his regional manager lol.


Too bad they do not make 3" and 2".


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> Pffft. You use the nail shoes on the can frames and use romex staples to attach them to strapping. Easy peasy. They hold just fine.
> 
> Strapping is awesome. Old work fishing is easy peasy, since there is little drilling needed, and in new work you staple the romex between the strapping, since the joists are no longer a nailing surface. Soooper easy, especially with trusses.


Yup, they do hold fine just like that.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Going_Commando said:


> Pffft. You use the nail shoes on the can frames and use romex staples to attach them to strapping. Easy peasy. They hold just fine.
> 
> Strapping is awesome. Old work fishing is easy peasy, since there is little drilling needed, and in new work you staple the romex between the strapping, since the joists are no longer a nailing surface. Soooper easy, especially with trusses.


I must have missed it but I did not see any made for new work in his link.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I won't run romex between strapping, even though i can legally do so

And i always use IC cans that have innards that will articulate downwards , meaning i don't need to know what the ceiling finish is going to be

~CS~


----------



## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Why Murray? Then again I aint gonna complain, could be worse.


----------



## rookie sparky (Nov 6, 2014)

So sad the homeowner will now have anlb poking through their sheetrock. So sad.


----------



## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> He may as well use remodel cans on trim out since the ones you show still need the full diameter clearance from joists in order to fit. Unless he is installing one with 1.5" clearance above it.



According to question #12 in the FAQ section it says the 4" model can fit directly under a joist. The fixture is 1/2" thick. 


Sent from my house using 2 cans and a string!


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

rookie sparky said:


> So sad the homeowner will now have anlb poking through their sheetrock. So sad.


I think that whole black painted backer board is going to be left exposed.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

The_Modifier said:


> Check *HERE* Harry, it may help you out. We've been selling them so much our supplier has started giving us a discount for making him look awesome to his regional manager lol.


Those are pretty interesting. So you just shove the J-box up through the hole and it gets secured to nothing, correct?


----------



## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

Never mind I read a little further to where you do need a 4" available area. 


Sent from my house using 2 cans and a string!


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

meadow said:


> Why Murray? Then again I aint gonna complain, could be worse.


All Murray all the time, I hate GE and Homline....


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Black Dog said:


> All Murray all the time, I hate GE and Homline....



Murray is garbage. No reason to dislike Homeline other that stubbornness.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Murray is garbage. No reason to dislike Homeline other that stubbornness.


That's silly. I could say your dislike of Murray is due to stubbornness too.

I like Siemens, which is the same as Murray. I use Murray when it's cheaper.

It's all the same. Brandwhoring doesn't get you anywhere with electrical panels.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> That's silly. I could say your dislike of Murray is due to stubbornness too.
> 
> I like Siemens, which is the same as Murray. I use Murray when it's cheaper.
> 
> It's all the same. Brandwhoring doesn't get you anywhere with electrical panels.


I don't know.... Had a customer tell me he wanted Homeline, the breakers were heavier, so they must pack better stuff in them!:laughing::laughing:


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> That's silly. I could say your dislike of Murray is due to stubbornness too.
> 
> I like Siemens, which is the same as Murray. I use Murray when it's cheaper.
> 
> It's all the same. Brandwhoring doesn't get you anywhere with electrical panels.


But it sure makes it a whole lot easier to carry around breakers and grd bars when your constantly installing the same products over and over.

I carry a box of breakers for all the brands, but only for service call purposes. Otherwise, I'd only stock Homeline breakers.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> I won't run romex between strapping, even though i can legally do so
> 
> And i always use IC cans that have innards that will articulate downwards , meaning i don't need to know what the ceiling finish is going to be
> 
> ~CS~


What's wrong with that?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> But it sure makes it a whole lot easier to carry around breakers and grd bars when your constantly installing the same products over and over.
> 
> I carry a box of breakers for all the brands, but only for service call purposes. Otherwise, I'd only stock Homeline breakers.


Same here, I carry an assortment of breakers for service calls, but I carry a lot more Siemens and Murray breakers since those are the panels I usually install.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Same here, I carry an assortment of breakers for service calls, but I carry a lot more Siemens and Murray breakers since those are the panels I usually install.


Same here, only we stock mostly Homeline and Murray. No one carries much of the other brands around here.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> What's wrong with that?


Any reason why you don't just stick 5 cables under a king 30? Would go a WHOLE LOT FASTER!!!!!


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Every time I see pictures of how you guys build homes out there.... I understand the time differences between jobs. There is no strapping used out here, ever. Gotta drill everything, except when they are using the TJI's, then we just gotta knock out the holes.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Switched said:


> Every time I see pictures of how you guys build homes out there.... I understand the time differences between jobs. There is no strapping used out here, ever. Gotta drill everything, except when they are using the TJI's, then we just gotta knock out the holes.


TJI's,?:blink:


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Any reason why you don't just stick 5 cables under a king 30? Would go a WHOLE LOT FASTER!!!!!


What's a King 30?:blink:

This is how I work my clients they see that stuff and love it..


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

MTW said:


> Murray is garbage. No reason to dislike Homeline other that stubbornness.


The homeline looks like cheap junk to me, that is just my opinion, I feel the same about GE.

Siemens, Murray, and CH is what I like to sell.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> What's a King 30?:blink:
> 
> This is how I work my clients they see that stuff and love it..


It's a range staple.


----------



## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> TJI's,?:blink:


Those manufactured trusses that you hit factory stamped knockout in OSB with hammer and it either bounces or tears out ugly irregular hole.


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

To each his own.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> TJI's,?:blink:


They are an I Beam made with OSB and laminated lumber. They have pre-punched knockouts to run stuff through....sort of.

http://www.woodbywy.com/trus-joist/tji-joists/


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> It's a range staple.


I see, I do not think there is enough room in the void for that many cables.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Switched said:


> They are an I Beam made with OSB and laminated lumber. They have pre-punched knockouts to run stuff through....sort of.
> 
> http://www.woodbywy.com/trus-joist/tji-joists/


They use those here sometimes, but the all get strapping:laughing:


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> I see, I do not think there is enough room in the void for that many cables.


That's what we use. Up to 6 cables fit nicely.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> That's silly. I could say your dislike of Murray is due to stubbornness too.
> 
> I like Siemens, which is the same as Murray. I use Murray when it's cheaper.
> 
> It's all the same. Brandwhoring doesn't get you anywhere with electrical panels.


I dislike Murray/Siemens because the breakers don't fit as tightly onto the busbars as Homelines do. When it comes to regular plug-on 1" breakers, I believe that Homeline is the best quality for the same price as the other brands.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> Any reason why you don't just stick 5 cables under a king 30? Would go a WHOLE LOT FASTER!!!!!


Because it's hack and the cables would be too loose under the staple. Not good when you're running between the furring. The NM needs to be as tight as a piano string.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Like I said, childish.


Fine. 

I've installed all brands, even the hated GE. My opinion is not pulled out of thin air because something "looks cheap" or some other reason like that. I like quality, well made products and I believe that Square D is the best. Just ask a commercial/industrial guy what they like and you'll hear the same answer.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> Because it's hack and the cables would be too loose under the staple. Not good when you're running between the furring. The NM needs to be as tight as a piano string.


Then why not just drill a bunch of holes?!

That looks like it would take forever. Nobody does that silly nonsense.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> Then why not just drill a bunch of holes?!
> 
> That looks like it would take forever. Nobody does that silly nonsense.


I agree, it is time consuming to staple a bunch of cables like that. Usually guys who do new houses will go every other or every third joist, not every single one like Harry does. In that case, it's much faster. But drilling holes? No way.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> I agree, it is time consuming to staple a bunch of cables like that. Usually guys who do new houses will go every other or every third joist, not every single one like Harry does. In that case, it's much faster. But drilling holes? No way.


Well our houses don't look like that, so I won't tell you what the fastest way is. But whatever you do, stapling 1 wire under each staple EVERY joist is crazy!


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> And anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is just being stubborn...


Yes. :thumbsup:




> And BTW, we are talking about residential panels, so asking a commercial or industrial guy is kind of odd.


I was talking about the Square D company as a whole, from the resi stuff right up to the high end commercial products.




> Also, as many others have stated, I have had just as many, if not more, problems with SqD QO as any other resi panel.


And some have had no issues with QO, like myself. 



> A panel is a panel. Any panel could work flawless for years or give you issues in months. Mot state that one panel is so much greater and anyone who disagrees is just being stubborn is silly and should be kept in the blue box threads.


Cool story bro.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Well our houses don't look like that, so I won't tell you what the fastest way is. But whatever you do, stapling 1 wire under each staple EVERY joist is crazy!


Harry does 1 job a month and charges $80-100K for it so he takes his time to impress the customers :laughing::thumbup:


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MHElectric said:


> Well our houses don't look like that, so I won't tell you what the fastest way is. But whatever you do, stapling 1 wire under each staple EVERY joist is crazy!


I usually stack two cables per staple when practical. Again, it's just local tradition to do it that way. Just like others who live in areas with solid framing and you have to drill everything out.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> Pffft. You use the nail shoes on the can frames and use romex staples to attach them to strapping. Easy peasy. They hold just fine.
> 
> Strapping is awesome. Old work fishing is easy peasy, since there is little drilling needed, and in new work you staple the romex between the strapping, since the joists are no longer a nailing surface. Soooper easy, especially with trusses.


Strapping can be a pain when you have a lot of recessed lights to install, as you know. Usually you end up cutting and moving a bunch of them depending on the layout.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Well our houses don't look like that, so I won't tell you what the fastest way is. But whatever you do, stapling 1 wire under each staple EVERY joist is crazy!


In my case It's all for show, it get's friendly conversations going with the client, also anyone can do sloppy work and the client's can see it and once they do, they start not liking the price they're paying.

I do have trouble getting guys out of the habit of speed instead quality, I do get this look :blink: a lot trying to tell them how I want the work done.:laughing:


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> In my case It's all for show, it get's friendly conversations going with the client, also anyone can do sloppy work and the client's can see it and once they do, they start not liking the price they're paying.
> 
> I do have trouble getting guys out of the habit of speed instead quality, I do get this look :blink: a lot trying to tell them how I want the work done.:laughing:


Look, it's your jobs and your business, do it however you like. I just don't see the point, it's all gonna get covered up with sheetrock in a few days anyhow.

Quality can outweigh speed if it serves a purpose. The "quality" I see in your jobs by making them ridiculously O.C.D. do not serve a purpose, or provide any actual quality. They are simply for show.

Anyhow, I'm glad your able to do these jobs the way YOU like. That is a really good feeling.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> This is a 100 amp sub panel....:sleep1::laughing:


I don't see any "butchering" so far.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Look, it's your jobs and your business, do it however you like. I just don't see the point, it's all gonna get covered up with sheetrock in a few days anyhow.
> 
> Quality can outweigh speed if it serves a purpose. The "quality" I see in your jobs by making them ridiculously O.C.D. do not serve a purpose, or provide any actual quality. They are simply for show.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm glad your able to do these jobs the way YOU like. That is a really good feeling.


I'm not crapping on your way where you are. 50 states and 100's of ways to do the same thing. I'm selling this style to the customer and that is how I can make a few extra bucks, in the end the system must be problem free at the end and have no call backs.

Many crews bang out these jobs and I get the service calls because they will not back up their work:no:


----------



## 1.21gigawatts (Jun 22, 2013)

Harry, can you flip the guts in that panel and make it a bottom feed without too many problems ?


----------



## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Am I missing something here but the straps in the op picture look way less and set back required to run that romex 1-1/2 " ??? I am just say😁


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

One of my most hated things to hear "It's gonna get covered with sheetrock anyway". Sorry, just hate it.

I love going into an older home, or new one for that matter, and looking at great work. Something that shows great pride in the actual craft. It is not always practical in this day in age on NC, but remodels and service, there should be now excuse, the margins are just not that tight. 

How often do some of the industrial/commercial guys show off their control cabinets. Some get great compliments on the quality of the installation, others get reamed for the sloppiness of the work. Both installations will perform the same function, just different attitudes and methods.

Choose what works for you I guess.


----------



## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Hey black dog nice panel as usual. Had a little time to quip at you guys !?


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

1.21gigawatts said:


> Harry, can you flip the guts in that panel and make it a bottom feed without too many problems ?


Yes it's just 3 bolts.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Look, it's your jobs and your business, do it however you like. I just don't see the point, it's all gonna get covered up with sheetrock in a few days anyhow.
> 
> Quality can outweigh speed if it serves a purpose. The "quality" I see in your jobs by making them ridiculously O.C.D. do not serve a purpose, or provide any actual quality. They are simply for show.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm glad your able to do these jobs the way YOU like. That is a really good feeling.


Here's the thing, I don't see what Harry does as "Quality". It's simply "wastefulness". 

He's wasting time and material to "Get a friend conversation going with the customer"... all at the customer's expense. Seems silly to me.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> One of my most hated things to hear "It's gonna get covered with sheetrock anyway". Sorry, just hate it.
> 
> *I love* going into an older home, or new one for that matter, and looking at great work. Something that shows great pride in the actual craft. It is not always practical in this day in age on NC, but remodels and service, there should be now excuse, the margins are just not that tight.
> 
> ...


I bolded the important part.

YOU love it, I do too. I understand exactly what you're saying, but in the big picture my opinion is the opposite.

When doing a job, I am there to make a profit, as much profit as I can. I am not there to impress some other electrician when they rip the walls down in 50 years. Wasting time (ie, my profit) for the sole purpose of making something look neat, when it's going to get covered up in a few days, is counterintuitive, IMO.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Then why not just drill a bunch of holes?!
> 
> That looks like it would take forever. Nobody does that silly nonsense.


Stapling at every joist does take forever. I do every 2-3 depending on joist spacing. It is super fast. I only do it on production residential though. On most jobs I drill out joists and do it that way. Just another way to skin that cat. 

We dont use one big staple, like your beloved "king 30" because there is only a 3/4" gap between the joist and bottom of strapping. There just aint enough room.I was also taught to staple no more than 2 romexes together, so regular vikings or briscons it is.

I get what Pete says about how Homeling bites onto the bus tighter. We usually install square D because my Dad has been doing just that for 40 years. I dont care as much, and dont see a whole lot of difference between the different brands. I just wish we could get Homeline panels with a copper bus. Ive seen far more burnt bus problems on AL bus than CU, so that is my preference. Preference/opinion is all this is.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Same here, I carry an assortment of breakers for service calls, but I carry a lot more Siemens and Murray breakers since those are the panels I usually install.


That's what cl breakers are for.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Here's the thing, I don't see what Harry does as "Quality". It's simply "wastefulness".
> 
> He's wasting time and material to "Get a friend conversation going with the customer"... all at the customer's expense. Seems silly to me.





HackWork said:


> I bolded the important part.
> 
> YOU love it, I do too. I understand exactly what you're saying, but in the big picture my opinion is the opposite.
> 
> When doing a job, I am there to make a profit, as much profit as I can. I am not there to impress some other electrician when they rip the walls down in 50 years. Wasting time (ie, my profit) for the sole purpose of making something look neat, when it's going to get covered up in a few days, is counterintuitive, IMO.


:laughing:


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> :laughing:


"_In my case It's all for show, it get's friendly conversations going with the client_"

:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

HackWork said:


> "_In my case It's all for show, it get's friendly conversations going with the client_"
> 
> :laughing::laughing:


I delete my reply. You can laugh all you want at what I have to say, I cannot expect you to understand what I'm talking about.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I also like that Homeline and QO breakers are designed and listed for two conductors per terminal. That's a big plus in my book.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> I delete my reply. You can laugh all you want at what I have to say, I cannot expect you to understand what I'm talking about.


I understand what you are talking about, but I think it is your normal silliness.

How many extra hours does it take you do wire up behind the drywall work so neatly and excessively? You charge the customer the full extra for that and they go along with it? Is it worth it just to "_Spark up a friendly conversation_"? Do you actually tell the customer that your topic of conversation cost them hundreds or thousands of dollars more?

Hey, we all have opinions.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> Yes it's just 3 bolts.


Are you sure? I didn't think Murray or Siemens could be flipped, but I never looked. Will the panel cover work when flipped over? All the writing sideways?


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Are you sure? I didn't think Murray or Siemens could be flipped, but I never looked. Will the panel cover work when flipped over? All the writing sideways?


It would work but the writing would be upside down, so It's going to stay up top.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I understand what you are talking about, but I think it is your normal silliness.
> 
> How many extra hours does it take you do wire up behind the drywall work so neatly and excessively? You charge the customer the full extra for that and they go along with it? Is it worth it just to "_Spark up a friendly conversation_"? Do you actually tell the customer that your topic of conversation cost them hundreds or thousands of dollars more?
> 
> Hey, we all have opinions.


It really does not take that much time at all, just plan your runs and do it.

Just start out with one staple at the beginning of the run and one at the end or where you'll be changing direction pull all your cables then go back after their all run and staple them up, make sure the wire is flat without bends and such.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Black Dog said:


> It would work but the writing would be upside down, so It's going to stay up top.


If the writing is upside down, then I don't think it would work Harry.

All your ranting about doing quality work :laughing::laughing::laughing:

This is one of those things that SqD has an advantage, being able to code compliantly flip them.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

HackWork said:


> If the writing is upside down, then I don't think it would work Harry.
> 
> All your ranting about doing quality work :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> This is one of those things that SqD has an advantage, being able to code compliantly flip them.


I don't see a need to flip it.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

HackWork said:


> If the writing is upside down, then I don't think it would work Harry.
> 
> All your ranting about doing quality work :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> This is one of those things that SqD has an advantage, being able to code compliantly flip them.


You can flip Siemens panelboards. Im pretty sure you can flip Siemens loadcenters but I've only put in 3 in the past year or so and I just dont remember. It would be pretty dumb if you cant.

This is a link to the Siemens PL series loadcenter. It says all PL loadcebters are easily invertible for bottom feed applications:
http://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdist...pl-series/Pages/pl-series.aspx?ismobile=true


----------



## rookie sparky (Nov 6, 2014)

That cable on the left is too close to the runner


----------



## fargowires (Aug 26, 2010)

RGH said:


> Am I missing something here but the straps in the op picture look way less and set back required to run that romex 1-1/2 " ??? I am just say😁


I gotta agree...but it's 1 1/4" back from the finished surface. In my opinion, all those wires need continuous nail plates. That 'one-by' strapping is actually less than 3/4" deep. With 1/2" drywall on top, it comes to less than the required 1 1/4".
And with the runs so close to the strapping on the left, seems you're just asking for the rockers to 'screw' you.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

fargowires said:


> I gotta agree...but it's 1 1/4" back from the finished surface. In my opinion, all those wires need continuous nail plates. That 'one-by' strapping is actually less than 3/4" deep. With 1/2" drywall on top, it comes to less than the required 1 1/4".
> And with the runs so close to the strapping on the left, seems you're just asking for the rockers to 'screw' you.


There is no required 1 1/4" setback unless it's passing thru a framing member.


----------



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

fargowires said:


> I gotta agree...but it's 1 1/4" back from the finished surface. In my opinion, all those wires need continuous nail plates. That 'one-by' strapping is actually less than 3/4" deep. With 1/2" drywall on top, it comes to less than the required 1 1/4".
> And with the runs so close to the strapping on the left, seems you're just asking for the rockers to 'screw' you.


That 1 1/4" is from the face of a framing member. Not the finish surface. 
So you may be correct in your concern if the wires getting screwed. 
The code you mentioned is out of context.


----------



## fargowires (Aug 26, 2010)

HackWork said:


> There is no required 1 1/4" setback unless it's passing thru a framing member.


Or along a framing member, and this , I think, qualifies . Especially the run on the left. The strapping is a framing member.


----------



## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> All Murray all the time, I hate GE and Homline....


Homeline is way better than GE or Murray. But as long as you aren't using GE, Murray aint that bad :thumbsup:


----------



## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> I dislike Murray/Siemens because the breakers don't fit as tightly onto the busbars as Homelines do. When it comes to regular plug-on 1" breakers, I believe that Homeline is the best quality for the same price as the other brands.


QO guts at a lower price than GE, Murray or Siemens! :thumbup:


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Just my comments:

For me, drilling is faster. If you're a perfectionist like Harry, laser it first. If that doesn't spark up a friendly conversation with your customer, nothing will  .

Panel choice is exactly that - _choice. _There's no such thing as the perfect resi panel. All I know is that the quality of the new panels I install is much better than the old garbage I am replacing. In a world where we are installing more and more junk (because quality is simply unavailable) the quality of residential panels has become much better.


----------



## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

Black Dog said:


>


Joist, then furring, then strapping. Does the framer also own the lumber yard? :laughing:


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

CTshockhazard said:


> Joist, then furring, then strapping. Does the framer also own the lumber yard? :laughing:


Why Yes in fact:laughing::laughing:


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I thought we were looking at some sort of engineered lumber product, but don't see the strip on the top.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It looks like they sistered those joists. Not sure why. Snow load?


----------



## 120/208 (Nov 18, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> This is a 100 amp sub panel....:sleep1::laughing:


Looks like the UV got to your ladder. Your ladder is Hack.:laughing:


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

My eight foot ladder looks like that too from riding around on the top of the van. Can only imagine what the ladders look like out west and how long they last outside.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

nrp3 said:


> My eight foot ladder looks like that too from riding around on the top of the van. Can only imagine what the ladders look like out west and how long they last outside.


I have ladders that are about 1 year old that look like they are 10. They still have that smooth finish on them though. After about 5 years though the finish wears off and you can feel that fiberglass.... New ladder time.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Switched said:


> I have ladders that are about 1 year old that look like they are 10. They still have that smooth finish on them though. After about 5 years though the finish wears off and you can feel that fiberglass.... New ladder time.


Yup, it's just great when the fiberglass gets on your bare arms in the summer, that's when they get cut up and tossed in the dumpster..:no:


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I still love mine, but I seem to fill it. Don't have a good place to pull into during the winter to clean it out. Like a bigger one, but enjoying not having a payment at the moment.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I still love mine, but I seem to fill it. Don't have a good place to pull into during the winter to clean it out. Like a bigger one, but enjoying not having a payment at the moment.


Half of your's is seating, correct? Mine is the shorter one, but it is all cargo space so I have almost 11' to use.

After jobs I get lazy and just throw everything on the floor near the door and head home. But I always go out 10-15 minutes early the next day and sort it all out and get the material and tools ready for that day's jobs. Doing that really helps stay neat and organized.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Nobody to blame but myself. Parts everywhere. The roads are in terrible shape here and stuff falls out of the shelves.


----------



## fargowires (Aug 26, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> That 1 1/4" is from the face of a framing member. Not the finish surface.
> So you may be correct in your concern if the wires getting screwed.
> The code you mentioned is out of context.


Yep, I stand corrected. But 300.4(D) does require the wire to be kept 1 1/4" from the strpping, to avoid the drywall screws. So those first 2 or 3 cables to the left have to move to the right.
Thanks for the correction.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

fargowires said:


> Yep, I stand corrected. But 300.4(D) does require the wire to be kept 1 1/4" from the strpping, to avoid the drywall screws. So those first 2 or 3 cables to the left have to move to the right.
> Thanks for the correction.


The first cable is 2" on center from the strapping, My standard measurement.


----------



## fargowires (Aug 26, 2010)

Black Dog said:


> The first cable is 2" on center from the strapping, My standard measurement.


That's 2"?? Man, I know my eyes are getting bad... 
Again, I stand corrected.
Carry on.
Nice work, Harry, but I'd a drilled em. 3-4 cables in a 3/4 hole, used my 18-volt with a trusty Bosch bit. Zoom-zoom.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Black Dog said:


> The first cable is 2" on center from the strapping, My standard measurement.


You actually measure and mark out your romex? I prefer my mark 1 eyeball and go. The whole point of nailing to the bottom of joists is to save time. Jeeze!


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> You actually measure and mark out your romex? I prefer my mark 1 eyeball and go. The whole point of nailing to the bottom of joists is to save time. Jeeze!


Hence the name of my company slow poke electric.

"We may be slow, but we're expencive ":laughing:


----------

