# Cleaning carbon off panel surfaces after a fault.



## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

The material itself is waaaay more conductive, as it should be. This is cosmetic. Your procedure seems more than adequate.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Acetone is a real dangerous chemical with out protection. 

We used to use CRC cable clean, hose it right off. The stuff with the orange smell. All you need was a fan.

We would determine the cause during clean up. This is important.

We would prime and then use Glyptal paint the 1201 red stuff for minor issues. In a 3-4 inch over lap into non damaged metal.

We kept 1/8" thick sheets of glastic on hand, 1580.
NEMA GPO-3. UL recognized, highly flame resistant, .025" thicknesses, meets 94 V-0, combines high arc and track resistance 
hint, There is more than one type of NEMA GPO-3 some are not arc and track resistant.

You have some serious damage in some of the pictures. I would have pop riveting some GPO-3 in those areas, Then spray the pop rivets with glyptal. If your close to an arc source use the blind pop rivets with the screw hole and then plastic or nylon screws. 

Then there is G10 which can be for structural applications.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

SWDweller said:


> Acetone is a real dangerous chemical with out protection.
> 
> We used to use CRC cable clean, hose it right off. The stuff with the orange smell. All you need was a fan.
> 
> ...


Yes for the Re-assembly I used the glastic board. for the base of the replacement disconnect. Did not think to add all the other steps in the thread.

you are spot on with the GPO-3 good product.

Reason why I do it this way. Was in the 80's as a apprentice J-man instructed to just change the insulators in a 408V bus panel with out cleaning the carbon or inspection of the metal in panel, knowing little did as told. weeks later OCP trip again. on investigation one insulator was carbon laced. found section of paint that had carbon on it separated off the top of the panel and landed on the insulator. long story short, call backs are not good. Made me a develop the acronym, (Trust no one). and (A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!).

I will try the CRC product. Thanks.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I would just replace the backpan and call it a day if I was concerned.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Most of my rebuilding of flashed equipment was on 15kv. Parts if available are 10 -26 weeks away on a good day. We had to get things running ASAP. We did one S&C fused disconnect where we used 2- 4 x 8 sheets of glastic for protection. Even used 4" pvc to get the line from the bottom to the top of the cabinet. Take measurements and then head to the shop where the table saw is or call over and have them deliver. You can do stuff like that with S&C there is room inside the cabinets.

The purchacing office always argued when we bought cases of spray glyptal. We kept it locked away and not everyone knew where the stuff was stored.


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

SWDweller said:


> Acetone is a real dangerous chemical with out protection.


Wow.

You better notify the nail polish remover industry.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Not sure why you would use layers of glastic. It tests just fine with much less and factory equipment doesn’t use multiple layers even with 35 kV builds.

We mostly use denatured alcohol. Cheap, available everywhere, and works well with quick evaporation time and doesn’t rearrange your chromosomes or cause alcohol poisoning and liver damage. Another neat property is no condensation and it’s insulating so you can clean equipment live.

For heavy duty problems though dry ice blasting is very quick and efficient. You can rent the equipment if you don’t own it. If you don’t mind evaporation issues though regular water ice blasting is just as cheap and 1/10th the cost.

I’ve worked with multiple chest freezer size dry ice coolers on large jobs.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

We use 3m scotchbright fiber disks and a cordless vac if we are going to the hassle of removing parts from the back plane and repainting.


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## ScooterMcGavin (Jan 24, 2011)

paulengr said:


> We mostly use denatured alcohol. Cheap, available everywhere, and works well with quick evaporation time and doesn’t rearrange your chromosomes or cause alcohol poisoning and liver damage. Another neat property is no condensation and it’s insulating so you can clean equipment live.



Not quite everywhere. It’s banned in California (not even kidding.). Apparently it contributes to low level ozone levels.


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

scameron81 said:


> Not quite everywhere. It’s banned in California (not even kidding.). Apparently it contributes to low level ozone levels.


That seems really odd, since E85 is mostly ethanol and moreso denatured alcohol, which is about E95. California is worried about people using denatured alcohol as a fuel or fuel additive, yet pushes heavily for E85?    

...

Yeah, so, a quick check on the CARB site lists denatured alcohol "denatured fuel ethanol". What a bummer. That's one of my go-to cleaning solvents for certain projects, wouldn't like that here in WA.


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

scameron81 said:


> Not quite everywhere. It’s banned in California (not even kidding.). Apparently it contributes to low level ozone levels.


Here's an interesting little exclusion that one power company in California got approval for. They apparently *need *denatured alcohol to clean their gear:

Metropolitan’s operations align similarly with other public utilities in that denatured alcohol may be required to maintain critical electrical equipment. Manufacturers specifically recommend denatured alcohol for the maintenance of sensitive electrical equipment because it does not leave any material residue and evaporates quickly. This limited use, as stated in the ARB presentation, would result in a negligible increase in VOC emissions.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I use a rag with contact cleaner sprayed on it...you don't want to be solvents dripping on breakers cases and cables insulation.....most of the time its cosmetic reasons and i don't want to get black **** on my hands every time I'm in the enlosure.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Tonedeaf said:


> I use a rag with contact cleaner sprayed on it...you don't want to be solvents dripping on breakers cases and cables insulation.....most of the time its cosmetic reasons and i don't want to get black **** on my hands every time I'm in the enlosure.


Hence the denatured alcohol. If it’s 600 V rated usually we wouldn’t waste the effort. 4160 or higher is another story. The other problem is with DC generators and motors. And some wood plants like to do a deep cleaning (dry ice) once every few years. It works. There is a 2000 HP chip mill motor in Georgia still running after 30 years without a rewind. Never ever would have thought that’s possible. It’s had a dip and rebake a couple years ago but not a rewind.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

scameron81 said:


> Not quite everywhere. It’s banned in California (not even kidding.). Apparently it contributes to low level ozone levels.


Now they have no problem with you drinking ethanol (that's the alcohol in booze) but they are worried about cleaning your bucket with it


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

splatz said:


> Now they have no problem with you drinking ethanol (that's the alcohol in booze) but they are worried about cleaning your bucket with it



First thing i look for on the warning label is "Not for sale in the state of California" because i only want the goods stuff.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

Not to be going off topic of the original post. The term cosmetic has been mentioned a few times.

So just throwing this out there. No disrespect to any one.

A family member taught me when I was young and did coatings for a profession.

10 rules of all coating regardless of what it is. I will only cover 1,2 and 10!

1: to persevere and protect.
***
2: proper preparation of the surface to expose faults in the surface or coatings being covered.
****
10: to enhance the appearance of the surface being coated.
And I thank god every day I don’t live in CA.

but past the 49th parallel in CA. Hate filling out the 1040 form every year though.


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## Tinkindar (7 mo ago)

Not a bad idea! But I think it's still not entirely fair. Still, your customer or buyer should see what he gets for his money. After all, you can't guarantee it won't come back after a while. Therefore, it is necessary to give the client full information about everything. And even if your client asks you how much for a plumber to unclog a toilet, then you should give him an answer. Because the client is always right, you should understand if you work with people.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

cuba_pete said:


> That seems really odd, since E85 is mostly ethanol and moreso denatured alcohol, which is about E95. California is worried about people using denatured alcohol as a fuel or fuel additive, yet pushes heavily for E85?
> 
> ...
> 
> Yeah, so, a quick check on the CARB site lists denatured alcohol "denatured fuel ethanol". What a bummer. That's one of my go-to cleaning solvents for certain projects, wouldn't like that here in WA.


Uh no you’d have a knock problem. E85 is a blend of 51-83% ethanol and the balance is gasoline. It is adjusted depending on the season because ethanol is hygroscopic (absorbs water).

There is similarly not necessarily a set formula for denatured alcohol. Typically it has 10% methanol but there can be a lot of other things. All combustible. In fact you can make your own.











Realistically nothing wrong with E85 as a solvent for cleaning. It’s just horribly overpriced and I have to supply a container and it makes everything stink of gas.


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