# My Current Tools. What else should I buy?



## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

Hi. 



I am in the process of being an Apprentice Electrician. I have acquired some tools throughout the years and was wondering what else is needed in the eyes of a Journey Man for an Apprentice. 



These is my current Tools:


Milwaukee Impact Driver
Hitachi Hammer Drill
Klein RMS Clamp Meter
Craftsmen Multimeter 

Milwaukee STUD 25Ft Tape Measure


This is what I am planning to buy...


Wera 347900 VBE Insulated Screwdriver Set


Knipex 7 piece insulated Pliers and Screwdriver Tool Set.


Would the above be enough for an Apprentice from a Journey Man's point of view? 



Cheers!

*
*

*
*


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

You forgot six and eight foot step ladder, pickup truck with cap and ladder rack


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

You need very basic handtools. The company that you work for sets the tool list, or the union if you get into a union.

The tape measure is good. Other basic tools:
Hammer
lineman pliers
diagonal pliers
needlenose pliers
small channel locks (420 or 430)
medium channel locks (440)
larger straight screwdriver
medium straight screwdriver
small straight screwdriver
#2 phillips screwdriver
torpedo level
keyhole saw
small allen keys
utility knife
flashlight

Instead of a digital meter you should have a solenoid type tester. None of your tools should be insulated. 

The tools above will get you thru most stuff until you find out which others tools you will need. Don't go crazy buying tools now because you will soon find that they weren't exactly what you needed and will be wasted.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Keep in mind you're most likely to use the contractor supplied broom and shovel more than anything for a while  

If you were going into a union apprenticeship they'd have a tool list for you, if you aren't, you can still google "IBEW tool list" you'll find the lists that various locals require. 

If there's no such list, opinions vary a lot with this topic, I'd just show up with a minimal set and see what they want you to bring. Set aside some money so you can buy what they want you to bring. 

I'd bring a few things, just so you're not coming empty handed 

carpenter's pencil and / or sharpie and pocket sized note pad (to take down your instructions) 
utility knife (even if it's only to open boxes) 
small flashlight (you'll be working / crawling places where there's no lights - yet) 

The first on that list above is the most important. 

As for real tool tools, I'd just bring a multi-tip screwdriver, linemans pliers, and a small tool pouch to carry them. If you already have them, maybe you might as well bring but leave in the car 

wire stripper 
diagonal pliers 
channellock pliers 
hammer 
tape measure and / or folding stick ruler
big heavy duty slotted screwdriver
other screwdrivers 

Power tools will be especially controversial  

Insulated tools are not for apprentices, although I hear they're all anyone uses in Europe, but certainly not for your first day on the job in the US.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

PPE -- Personal Protective Equipment has to be FIRST on your priority list.

By which I mean GLOVES. You want a couple of pair. These should be nice ones that are comfortable. I know of no firm that ever supplies personal gloves. 

I get most use out of tip-less gloves. 

You'll want comfort gloves because your first duties will consist of broom and shovel and package shifting. That gets hard on the hands right from the first.

You'll want very comfortable boots. A poor selection will have you crawling on all fours by the next day.

Next: knee pads// or overalls with foam insert knee pads. Electricians take it in the knees. 

Most PPE will typically be employer supplied: hard hat, hearing, face mask// eye goggles....

You'll want a carpenter's square pencil because office pencils simply roll out of sight// break.

You'll still want a pocket sized note pad -- as you'll be flooded with detail -- names being at the top of the list. Write everyone's name down as soon as possible after learning it. This will go a LONG ways towards making you a member of the crew. No-one likes to be forgotten.

While on the job -- stay the heck away from your cell phone. Let everything go to voice mail. Jabbering on the phone will soon have you pushed out the door -- permanently.

EVERY EC I've ever known has a tools-required-list. Wait to see it before jumping off.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

The last thing you need is insulated tools at this stage of your career.

Carry the most basic tools.

Think health and safety and make sure you have good boots and other PPE.

Try and get a Union apprenticeship, in your area it's the absolute best way to go.


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

I cannot thank you enough for sharing the knowledge! 


If I am reading between the lines correctly, the last thing I should do is roll in with a lot of top tier tools for some workers will give me the evil eye. I do have a bunch of old tools (20 years – 30 years old) that I can bring so I won't stand out from the crowd in a negative way. 


I have explored my local union but, it appears to be a 3 year wait. So chances are, I will be exploring non-union options until the waiting period is over. 


Cheers!


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

KC Tool has that Wera screwdriver set at a real good price, $85.00. But like everyone has said you should not be working on anything live. The thing I don't like about buying the German screwdriver sets is, their sizes are to small. Out of that set the biggest flat head screwdriver is good for putting on plates. there's probably three screwdrivers in that set that you would use everyday. The small ones are invaluable if your doing a lot of small work like controls or fire alarm, you just don't need that many sizes. at least not at first.


If you go the German/metric route for the screwdrivers get a 6, 8 and a 10. Those are the ones you'll use everyday. Or 6.5, 8.5, 10.5, whatever crazy sizes they come in. Most sets won't have them. That's why I bought Whia when I wanted to try the German brands. They actually had "Real Electrician" sizes. Maybe someday Ill grow into them:vs_laugh:



https://www.kctoolco.com/wiha-30898-8-piece-softfinish-heavy-duty-slotted-phillips-screwdriver-set/



Good luck with your career!


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Like @HackWork says buy a solenoid tester [Wiggy] but get a Knopp, you'll thank me later.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

460 Delta said:


> Like @HackWork says buy a solenoid tester [Wiggy] but get a Knopp, you'll thank me later.


I think the Knopp is really nice but I got the Etcon 154, it's rugged and made in USA, has a solenoid and neon light but also has a beeper continuity tester. It would be pretty hard to give up that continuity tester now. 

http://www.etcon.com/vt154.htm


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

As an apprentice -- he ought not to be touching live circuits for quite a while.

OP: So hold off on ANYTHING in that line.

No employer is going to expect you to be journeyman equipped -- or anything like it.

Insulated tools are a waste for you. They go for a premium -- and are solely designed for work around hot circuits -- as you can't afford to beat them up during rough-in work -- which is what you'll start out doing -- with ditch work at the top of the list.

Ditch work separates the men from the nerds. The latter only want to play with circuits -- while not really getting their hands dirty actually building something.


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

HertzHound said:


> KC Tool has that Wera screwdriver set at a real good price, $85.00. But like everyone has said you should not be working on anything live. The thing I don't like about buying the German screwdriver sets is, their sizes are to small. Out of that set the biggest flat head screwdriver is good for putting on plates. there's probably three screwdrivers in that set that you would use everyday. The small ones are invaluable if your doing a lot of small work like controls or fire alarm, you just don't need that many sizes. at least not at first.
> 
> 
> If you go the German/metric route for the screwdrivers get a 6, 8 and a 10. Those are the ones you'll use everyday. Or 6.5, 8.5, 10.5, whatever crazy sizes they come in. Most sets won't have them. That's why I bought Whia when I wanted to try the German brands. They actually had "Real Electrician" sizes. Maybe someday Ill grow into them
> ...



That's good to know! 


I have not used a Phillips Screwdriver to fasten screws in years due to using an impact driver and/or drill with number 2 bits for drywall screws. I will pick up a set of those Wiha Screwdrivers you recommended as I completely overlooked the size requirements for a flat head Screwdriver. 


Cheers!


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

I am definitely not afraid to get my hands dirty so, a good pair of gloves should be top priority to prevent callouses... But then again, I like callouses. I will explore the Etcon 154 in addition to the Knopp Wiggy Tester. Hopefully Wiha 8 piece screwdriver set should meet all the requirements. I never even considered the importance of width size of a flat-head Screwdriver. 



Cheers!


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

splatz said:


> I think the Knopp is really nice but I got the Etcon 154, it's rugged and made in USA, has a solenoid and neon light but also has a beeper continuity tester. It would be pretty hard to give up that continuity tester now.
> 
> http://www.etcon.com/vt154.htm


Yeah I have an Etcon, but the size of the Knopp is the selling point to me. I had an Ideal once upon a time with the connie test, but a couple false reads on a carbon trace in a blown fuse was the end for me. The slim Knopp is an easy fit in my pocket. The Ideal was like a brick in comparison.


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

What about the Ideal 61-076 Vol-Con? How does it stand against the Etcon VT154 in addition to the Knopp 14460?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

You'll also need an ample supply of coffee stirrers, and one of those belt mounted change makers.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Amperage said:


> I am definitely not afraid to get my hands dirty so, a good pair of gloves should be top priority to prevent callouses... But then again, I like callouses. I will explore the Etcon 154 in addition to the Knopp Wiggy Tester. Hopefully Wiha 8 piece screwdriver set should meet all the requirements. I never even considered the importance of width size of a flat-head Screwdriver.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!


Callouses are fine, cuts and blisters are a bad day! 
A steel capped screwdriver will be a chisel, prybar, locknut tightener, and a stuck screw loosener with rapping from a smallish hammer.
A 6 or 9 in one screwdriver will be your go to screwdriver, at least for me it is.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

If you plan on using insulated tools as your primary tool set, you are in for a nasty surprise. No matter who the manufacturer is the insulation isn’t all that sturdy and wears out quickly. Most guys keep those tools for live work only because the insulation gouges and nicks up so easily.

Second even if you do live work and I do a LOT of troubleshooting all the time you will rarely use insulated tools because it’s a recipe for disaster. OSHA specifically prohibits live work except when it’s absolutely necessary for a reason. At most you’ll maybe use insulated screwdrivers once in a while. I get a lot more use out of rubber gloves when I have to reach in somewhere or pull something out of the way than I ever have to use insulated tools. Never mind a hot stick to use a tic or pull cutouts or elbow connectors or install a ground cluster in medium voltage equipment but that’s not something most electricians deal with.

So I’d rather see you getting say a good Phillips #0 to #2, a thin 1/8” flat, 1/4” flat, and say the Dewalt impact screwdrivers, plus the other tools mentioned, then eventually maybe an insulated set plus gloves, when you start on live work and not before. By that time you should already be doing test before touch.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Amperage said:


> What about the Ideal 61-076 Vol-Con? How does it stand against the Etcon VT154 in addition to the Knopp 14460?


I had one but the leads were junk, I think the older ones may have been better, I don't think they're made in USA any more.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Amperage said:


> What about the Ideal 61-076 Vol-Con? How does it stand against the Etcon VT154 in addition to the Knopp 14460?


Don't get me wrong, any of these are a great choice, but the connie feature is a non- necessity to me, and the size of the Knopp is a plus. 
Whichever you choose is a great choice.:smile:


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

Roger that on the multi screwdrivers personally I use the racketiers mini butt pouch.. I'm old slinging lots of tools wrecked my back..

Suspenders for your pouch!!!

Kneepads.. Never kneel and twist that's how I tore my meniscus.

PPE for sure.. Sissy mitts or gloves are excellent, I prefer medium ropers and I dump old sunscreen in to season and moisturize at the same time. Cheap UVEX sunglasses, I buy em by the case for about $10 a pair. 

Usually two multi screwdrivers, love the ones that take a wire nut in the handle.. But a long #2 Robby, and 1/4" and 3/16 flat blade are also essential, a teeny Turner (mini pickquick), and a big beater blade. Beware the metal capped klein blade it conducts all the way thru. #2 Philips. Sidecutters with 15 degree angle not straights, red handle is fine. Pliers if you don't lose em d2000's with light blue handles.

Get a crappy geometry set box or old eyeglass case and put drill and screw bits in it. Always carry 3+ #8 metal tapping screws, they double as drill bits


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Amperage said:


> I cannot thank you enough for sharing the knowledge!
> 
> 
> If I am reading between the lines correctly, the last thing I should do is roll in with a lot of top tier tools for some workers will give me the evil eye. I do have a bunch of old tools (20 years – 30 years old) that I can bring so I won't stand out from the crowd in a negative way.
> ...



Apply apply apply!!!


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

For a pouch go light. small tool holder on one side and a fastener bag on the other. If you buy Occidental leather fastener bag, they're expensive, but will last. I like the Greenlee four pocket for tools. And a padded belt.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Amperage said:


> I am definitely not afraid to get my hands dirty so, a good pair of gloves should be top priority to prevent callouses... But then again, I like callouses. I will explore the Etcon 154 in addition to the Knopp Wiggy Tester. Hopefully Wiha 8 piece screwdriver set should meet all the requirements. I never even considered the importance of width size of a flat-head Screwdriver.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!


Gloves aren't there for callus prevention but cut and abrasion protection.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Amperage said:


> What about the Ideal 61-076 Vol-Con? How does it stand against the Etcon VT154 in addition to the Knopp 14460?


I prefer the Fluke T+pro.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Had good luck with an Amprobe AM series meter and amp clamp. Same QC as Fluke without the Fluke price tag. Or you could fleabay a Fluke 117.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

A great set up that helps your back and hips:


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

As far as wiggy's go.. I think you're better off to just get a cheap digital meter 600V rated, none of those cheap 300V ones. You can usually find em for $60.. The nice thing is they are usually a little more idiot proof compared to others like an Amprobe analog, analog is basic it has its advantages especially sub zero when your battery might freeze up, it also has the disadvantage of not being protected from voltage while set on continuity.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't think an apprentice electrician needs a DMM at all. I think he should have a solid tester instead. Something that won't be fooled by ghost voltages 

In the very rare situation that he is doing something that requires a DMM, the company or his journeyman can provide it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

A Klein or Ideal apprentice kit is all you need as a starter.


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

Here is a little update on my spending...


I just registered for the OSHA's Online 30 Hour Construction Course.


I picked up a used Electrician's Leather Tool Bag that includes Kleins & Sons Pliers, Screwdrivers, a Rachet, a Chisel, in addition to a Holub Knife. I figured that will get the job done as I will be the Mule in my early stage of Apprenticeship. They look ancient but for 60 dollars they are more than likely more road worthy than finding all of the above within that price range new. 


I purchased the Etcon VT 154




It would be great to hear some feedback on gloves in addition to Knee Guards. 


I will hold off on carrying top tier tools as many of you suggested until I become “One of the boys.” I will also invest in non-insulated screwdrivers due to many of you taking the time to explain the pitfalls in addition to me not encountering live wire anytime soon. 


All your feedback is not falling upon death ears. 


Cheers!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I used disposable gloves. The knit kind with painted on rubber on the grip part. Buy a 10-pack for $10 and throw them out when they get ripped or start stinking like old socks.


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

Amperage said:


> Here is a little update on my spending...
> 
> 
> I just registered for the OSHA's Online 30 Hour Construction Course.
> ...


Ahhhh, apprentice general foreman I see.

You should not be buying an OSHA-30 class yourself. Just back out. Click the refund button. If you desperately want something to put on a resume, ok, fine take the OSHA-10. Any employer worth a damn should provide that for you though. OSHA-30 you don't need unless you're management, and *that* is also something your employer will provide. Your time and attention needs to be on learning the electrical trade, electrical safety, and enough general construction site safety to keep you from walking into a concrete pour. OSHA-30 is about statistics, reporting, designating Competent Persons, managing exposure levels...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Jarp Habib said:


> Ahhhh, apprentice general foreman I see.
> 
> You should not be buying an OSHA-30 class yourself. Just back out. Click the refund button. If you desperately want something to put on a resume, ok, fine take the OSHA-10. Any employer worth a damn should provide that for you though. OSHA-30 you don't need unless you're management, and *that* is also something your employer will provide. Your time and attention needs to be on learning the electrical trade, electrical safety, and enough general construction site safety to keep you from walking into a concrete pour. OSHA-30 is about statistics, reporting, designating Competent Persons, managing exposure levels...


I don't agree with this.

Every electrician in our local must have OSHA 30. You can't be referred out to work if you don't have it. Many construction sites require it. 

It's definitely not just for management, although I will say that a lot of sites won't even let management (road supers, project managers) onto the site for the meetings unless they have OSHA 30.



> OSHA-30 is about statistics, reporting, designating Competent Persons, managing exposure levels...


 I took OSHA 30 twice. I don't remember much from either time, but I remember it being geared toward the worker himself, not management.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

As an apprentice, all you need is a knife, pliers, a few screwdrivers, strippers and NCV tester to start out. A flashlight and pen/marker will go a long way too.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

FishinElectrcian said:


> As far as wiggy's go.. I think you're better off to just get a cheap digital meter 600V rated, none of those cheap 300V ones. You can usually find em for $60.. The nice thing is they are usually a little more idiot proof compared to others like an Amprobe analog, analog is basic it has its advantages especially sub zero when your battery might freeze up, it also has the disadvantage of not being protected from voltage while set on continuity.


And digitals are famous for ghost voltages and the reason you can't beat a solenoid tester.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> And digitals are famous for ghost voltages and the reason you can't beat a solenoid tester.



First off solenoid testers have been pretty much banned everywhere. They have no category rating for a reason. Have you had one explode in your hands yet or are you just lucky?

Solenoid testers also blow out solid state inputs and outputs. They are banned in every plant with a scada or PLC system if the plant has anyone competent working there. Guess that’s not a problem for the guy who thinks digital meters are a bad thing. Mine has a Lo-Z mode which eliminates the problem. Or you can get s plug in one for Flukes.

There are some Wiggy looking things that are not solenoid testers but simulate one. But you might as well just use a test light because that’s just about what they are.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

paulengr said:


> First off solenoid testers have been pretty much banned everywhere. They have no category rating for a reason. Have you had one explode in your hands yet or are you just lucky?
> 
> Solenoid testers also blow out solid state inputs and outputs. They are banned in every plant with a scada or PLC system if the plant has anyone competent working there. Guess that’s not a problem for the guy who thinks digital meters are a bad thing. Mine has a Lo-Z mode which eliminates the problem. Or you can get s plug in one for Flukes.
> 
> ...



The guy is an apprentice and I'm sure he's testing line voltage, which my comment was in reference too. Maybe in your world an apprentice needs a digital meter but surely not in most of the resi field.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Did I read Current Tools in the title of this thread? Well, yes ,,, they made a great little sidewinder emt bender for up to 2" ............... 

And a tugger. And a few other tings .


https://currenttools.com


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

A non contact tester can save your life.. It fits in your pocket beside your pen, or stick it in your pouch. I've been using an expensive Flir one because it has a flashlight on it. 33V ghost voltages show up all the time on a multiconductor wirw you can also pick em up with a volt tick. 

I never got the appeal of wiggy's especially since you can buy a pocket sized cheap digital for less than a hundred bucks or a good volt tick. The Milwaukee one has been decent for my helper.

Biggest thing if you buy a non contact is battery type, the Cheapeys use real expensive flat batteries.. Make sure your choice uses AAA's.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

This is a pretty good, inexpensive meter.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

paulengr said:


> First off solenoid testers have been pretty much banned everywhere. They have no category rating for a reason. Have you had one explode in your hands yet or are you just lucky?



The Knopp and the Ideal are both 600V Cat3 rated. No electricians are playing Russian Roulette with their Solenoid testers. If only the "lucky electricians" haven't had one blow up in their hands, they would be off the market, not just supposedly banned on certain sites.


The guy is just starting out. The only thing he should be concerned with is "Test for dead", not troubleshooting SCADA systems. If he is going to *help* troubleshoot controls, someone else would already have a meter.


With time he will understand choosing the correct test equipment need for the task at hand.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HertzHound said:


> The Knopp and the Ideal are both 600V Cat3 rated. No electricians are playing Russian Roulette with their Solenoid testers. If only the "lucky electricians" haven't had one blow up in their hands, they would be off the market, not just supposedly banned on certain sites.
> 
> 
> The guy is just starting out. The only thing he should be concerned with is "Test for dead", not troubleshooting SCADA systems. If he is going to *help* troubleshoot controls, someone else would already have a meter.
> ...


If Paulengr wasn't an engr and just a paul, he wouldn't be so condescending in his threads, but as it stands he feels pretty superior to you dolts . Knopp won't even sell to engineers cause they just don't get it and never will....... And Knopp knows it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

paulengr said:


> First off solenoid testers have been pretty much banned everywhere. They have no category rating for a reason. Have you had one explode in your hands yet or are you just lucky?
> 
> Solenoid testers also blow out solid state inputs and outputs. They are banned in every plant with a scada or PLC system if the plant has anyone competent working there. Guess that’s not a problem for the guy who thinks digital meters are a bad thing. Mine has a Lo-Z mode which eliminates the problem. Or you can get s plug in one for Flukes.
> 
> There are some Wiggy looking things that are not solenoid testers but simulate one. But you might as well just use a test light because that’s just about what they are.


 @Amperage The above post is a good example of the real world in which someone is going to tell you something with authority, but everything he says is completely false and needs to be disregarded. You will learn to pick out the BS as you go.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

For the benefit of the OP, @paulengr is _at least_ dramatically overstating saying solenoid testers are banned practically everywhere. In reality the majority of electricians participating here will retire without ever visiting a site where solenoid testers are banned. 

My question is, who else here have worked anywhere that they ban solenoid testers? I've never seen it and I've done at least a little bit of a lot of things. But, it's possible there was a rule at some of the very strictest sites I've visited, that nobody told me about.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I spoke too soon. My luck finally wore out and my Wiggy blew my hands off this morning :sad::sad:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Also for the benefit of the OP, the reason I prefer the solenoid tester for most things is it's the least error prone, and with the safety aspects in particular, the safety aspects are particularly important. 

The solenoid does not require a battery, sometimes a weak battery will cause a digital device to give a wrong reading. Or in some cases, it doesn't alert, so you assume the circuit is dead, but it's just your tester that's dead. NG. 

You can feel the solenoid vibrate, you can't miss it, you can't misread it. 

Most of the solenoid testers also have neon indicator lights, which also don't need a battery. 

The Etcon has a battery, but it's only for the continuity tester. (You won't find a continuity tester that doesn't rely on a battery.) The solenoid and indicator lights don't depend on the battery, only the continuity beep. 

The solenoid imposes a small load on the circuit you are testing, so it will not show phantom voltages that are present due to induction. In most electrical work you want to disregard these induced voltages. Most digital meters will read phantom voltages, which can lead you to chase your tail because you think there's real voltage there. Some digital meters have a low-Z setting where they impose a small load so they also disregard phantom voltages. (As long as you put the meter in low-Z mode when you are looking at a phantom voltage.) 

Yes, solenoid testers and low-Z meters can damage delicate electronics, you can't throw even a small load in those circuits just anywhere. It's more of a concern with electronics than electrical work.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The other day I sent my guy outside to change a motion light, the customer said that the switch was off. My guy came back around saying that he needed his meter because his tick tracer (non-contact voltage tester) said it was still hot. He then came back around and told me that his meter said it was hot. I spent time talking to the customer to ensure that it was the right switch. 

I went out back and my guy said it was still hot, but he was in the process of wiring it up anyway. I noticed that when he finished making the connections the light did not go into the normal initial test mode and turn on.

So I told the customer to flip the switch and sure enough the light came on. Wasted time because both the tick tracer and digital meter were picking up ghost voltage, it was dead the whole time. You need a Wiggy.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

To the OP


Solenoid testers have a duty rating. At 480V it may only be something like 15 seconds. Long enough for you to tell the circuit is still on. you will know in a split second that the power is still on when testing it on 480V.



If you leave it on to long it will burn out the tester. I doubt any company would be in business long selling exploding testers. I have never burned out a solenoid tester. And I have never been asked to leave a job for using one.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HertzHound said:


> If you leave it on to long it will burn out the tester. I doubt any company would be in business long selling exploding testers. I have never burned out a solenoid tester. And I have never been asked to leave a job for using one.


I did not know this when I bought the Etcon VT-154, but when I was on the Etcon site getting a link to post, I saw that the VT-157 is a solenoid tester that's continuous duty rated, I never saw another with that. It also has a digital display. 

http://www.etcon.com/vt157.htm 

So, sooner or later, another $150 down the drain. :vs_mad:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

paulengr said:


> There are some Wiggy looking things that are not solenoid testers but simulate one. But you might as well just use a test light because that’s just about what they are.


You're right, the Fluke T+Pro is nothing more than a test light. I'm so stupid I wasted $100 on it. I wish you were around to correct me before I bought it.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

MTW said:


> You're right, the Fluke T+Pro is nothing more than a test light. I'm so stupid I wasted $100 on it. I wish you were around to correct me before I bought it.


 I see.


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

Exploding Wiggy's https://www.electriciantalk.com/showthread.php?t=274154

I believe the wiggy conversation is being rerouted this way.. 

Sounds like the kid got the Knopp so he's covered.... We're just beating our own drums... 

Cool tools continued.. The Rackatiers knock out buddy WTK-100 has been a real handy tool in my bag... especially in residential.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

You definitely need a rotosplit if you want to cut MC right


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

FishinElectrcian said:


> The Rackatiers knock out buddy WTK-100 has been a real handy tool in my bag... especially in residential.


Really I thought that thing looked really gimmicky. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

B-Nabs said:


> FishinElectrcian said:
> 
> 
> > The Rackatiers knock out buddy WTK-100 has been a real handy tool in my bag... especially in residential.
> ...


It is kind of.. I don't use the steel "stick it on the side of the panel" piece much... when I do I'm grateful for it, but a flat screwdriver on a 45 angle for potlights and box knockouts, fishing and grabbing, popping doors open and jimmying locks... invaluable!!! Gonna buy my helper one today to go with his new led light.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

A RANK APPRENTICE ought not to be around ANY hot circuits.

He shouldn't even be in a situation where he needs to verify that a conductor is cold.

Let the OP get started at the bottom: PPE -- then -- in no time flat he'll discover which way he ought to spend his hard earned $$$ on personal tools.

To the OP: what is critical and essential is what you are WEARING. 

No cell phone
Yes to PPE
Yes to notepad and pen
Yes to a Sharpie
Yes to a carpenter's pencil.

Within DAYS you'll figure out which way to turn.

Sadly, the guys here are telling you of what a seasoned apprentice ought to have.

By the standards of our trade, you're not seasoned.

ANY employer's first question for every apprentice: "Does he have what it takes?"

SAVE your money.

&&&

The ONLY apprentice I know of that got hired because of his tools -- stole mine and walked in with a foreman's well-used set. What a fraud. 

[ He injured himself while under the influence of drugs. So he ran away from the doctor! ]

Boy, did that employer screw up. The dude was a disaster, a criminal... yes, rejected by his mother and family. ( He also couldn't keep his motor mouth shut. )

You've got more than enough moxie to make it -- just don't burn your wallet trying to impress.

Your best investment is around your own body: what you wear, your PPE.

Gloves and boots are at the top of the list. I've forgotten how many lost souls showed up with naked hands and pathetic boots. Most were wash-outs.

Without good hands and good feet -- what use _are_ you?


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

Thanks for the feedback. In every industry, passion, in addition to user experience will play a factor in ones thoughts, and comments. I am heavily into sound reinforcement and, there is a lot of passion in that field as well. 


Personally, I do not see having a multimeter in addition to a solenoid tester a problem. It just broadens your horizons in terms of versatility. At the moment, I own two multimeters and two clamp meters. So having a solenoid tester will just expand my options under a given scenario. 


In regards to OSHA 30 versus OSHA 10 my main objective is to move from apprentice to journey man so why not learn all the information from a foreman's perspective? I do understand one needs to crawl before they can walk. However, what about those that were walking that took their skills for granted? Such individuals tend to know the basics and will lose interest on something they have learned already in the school of hard knocks. 


I recall reading many are content being an apprentice to the point there is a shortage of Journey Men. I am going for the long haul for, I am at the stage of Do or Die. So my hunger level is in hyena mode.


I believe a day you do not learn something new is a day wasted. It is the primary reason why I am switching my career and moving towards an Electrician. I've had a fond interest of electricity ever since I was in grade school. I do believe it's time to put this hobby aside and make it my lively hood. 



Cheers!


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## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

HackWork said:


> Jarp Habib said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhhh, apprentice general foreman I see.
> ...


Weird. Around here OSHA-10 is required with enough GCs that our apprenticeship program handles it for the younglings. I can't imagine requiring 30 across the board. And doing it twice? Might as well put up the tools and be Safety Guy at that point.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Amperage said:


> Thanks for the feedback. In every industry, passion, in addition to user experience will play a factor in ones thoughts, and comments. I am heavily into sound reinforcement and, there is a lot of passion in that field as well.
> 
> 
> Personally, I do not see having a multimeter in addition to a solenoid tester a problem. It just broadens your horizons in terms of versatility. At the moment, I own two multimeters and two clamp meters. So having a solenoid tester will just expand my options under a given scenario.
> ...



I think what we all are trying to get across to you is stick with the tools you need and progress with new tools as you progress but don't g further than what's required.

Ask for a tool list from your employer.

Take a look at the lists I posted here: https://www.electriciantalk.com/f14/union-j-mans-tool-list-158122/


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Jarp Habib said:


> Weird. Around here OSHA-10 is required with enough GCs that our apprenticeship program handles it for the younglings. I can't imagine requiring 30 across the board. And doing it twice? Might as well put up the tools and be Safety Guy at that point.


I did it the second time for my father. It was online and he needed it to go to job meetings on sites.


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

splatz said:


> . Some digital meters have a low-Z setting where they impose a small load so they also disregard phantom voltages. (As long as you put the meter in low-Z mode when you are looking at a phantom voltage.)
> ....
> Yes, solenoid testers and low-Z meters can damage delicate electronics, you can't throw even a small load in those circuits just anywhere. It's more of a concern with electronics than electrical work.


Thanks man!!! I wondered what low Z was for!!! Turns out my cheesy $150 klein one has that too. Sweet!!


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I think what we all are trying to get across to you is stick with the tools you need and progress with new tools as you progress but don't g further than what's required.
> 
> Ask for a tool list from your employer.





Thank you for sharing the link!
I will hold off on purchasing anymore tools and save the list for future 



The tools I ordered arrive today and it looks much older than I expected. I am happy with them nonetheless! 


Would anyone know what these two things are used for? 


Possibly a poor man's continuity tester? 



What appears to be some means of a pliers is made out of plastic. It states miniature fuses so I am guessing to remove fuses out of a panel board? 



















Cheers!


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

These days that fuse puller would do most of its duty at (barrel) fused disconnects.

The neon circuit tester is a museum piece. Note that its legend reads 90VAC to 550VAC.

No way I'm holding those short leads into 277VAC -- L-N test points -- let alone 480VAC L - L.


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

Thank you! 



I would also like to thank everyone who shared their experience/knowledge with their solenoid tester. 



The Etcon VT 154 arrived today as well. I would imagine the Etcon VT 154 in addition to the Klein CL 700 will compliment one another on my apprentice journey... 



If anyone can think of some useful material I can read on this message board that will keep me on the right track, I would greatly appreciate it. 



Cheers!


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

That fuse puller will be handy once every couple years..

Depending on company etc.. Your toolbelt is the next thing to sort out.. For Residential I use a stapling pouch, double pocket on a leather belt with suspenders and a hammer hook.. I also use a mini Kuny's pouch like the one I used on my belt (pants belt). Just big enough for a pair of sidecutters and strippers, one screwdriver and a marker. I really try to travel light but you will hear this a lot "Apprentices should wear their tools all the time" . It's more about the appearance of being ready to work than what actually gets done. Don't sit down, kneel like you could spring into action at any time, don't put your hands in your pockets it makes u look useless. 

If you do pack a full pouch try to balance it out weight wise, pack what you need, check what other guys pack. Use suspenders!!! A solid steel 24" toolbox with a combination lock is also handy, sometimes I'd drop mine close and chain it off to a column so it wouldn't get pinched. Personally I use a mini butt pouch but you'd probably get s*** for that haha. I haven't used my full size "Cadillac" for 15 yrs.

If in doubt pick up a broom, a guy that stays busy stays on payroll the longest when the layoffs come. That being said too if you are working in an area and there is crap on the floor or in the way of your parts trailer, take a minute and make a walkway. You will be going by there at least a dozen times, if you twist an ankle because you didn't move something that you already tripped over 4 times previously you will feel like a doof.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Even the neon tester has its place. It’s a great tool for finding out which is the hot wire if you are working with Knob and Tube wiring. Make sure your not grounded and hold one lead with the metal between you fingers. Place the other wire on the Knob and Tube conductors one at a time. The one that lights the lamp is the hot. 

I still have one somewhere. I haven’t worked on Knob and Tube wiring in a long long time. I think they banned it because someone used a Wiggy tester on it. 

It takes 90 volts to light the Neon, so it has no practical low voltage application.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HertzHound said:


> Even the neon tester has its place. It’s a great tool for finding out which is the hot wire if you are working with Knob and Tube wiring. Make sure your not grounded and hold one lead with the metal between you fingers. Place the other wire on the Knob and Tube conductors one at a time. The one that lights the lamp is the hot.
> 
> I still have one somewhere. I haven’t worked on Knob and Tube wiring in a long long time. I think they banned it because someone used a Wiggy tester on it.
> 
> It takes 90 volts to light the Neon, so it has no practical low voltage application.


Why not use a tick tracer to find the hot wire? I did that with K&T earlier today.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Why not use a tick tracer to find the hot wire? I did that with K&T earlier today.


I don’t know. I guess tick tracers weren’t around when I was taught the neon trick. Tic tracer would be better. 

Damit, I got no use for any of my old testers anymore, and the only guy buying them just got one.


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

FishinElectrcian said:


> That fuse puller will be handy once every couple years..
> 
> Depending on company etc.. Your toolbelt is the next thing to sort out.. For Residential I use a stapling pouch, double pocket on a leather belt with suspenders and a hammer hook.. I also use a mini Kuny's pouch like the one I used on my belt (pants belt). Just big enough for a pair of sidecutters and strippers, one screwdriver and a marker. I really try to travel light but you will hear this a lot "Apprentices should wear their tools all the time" . It's more about the appearance of being ready to work than what actually gets done. Don't sit down, kneel like you could spring into action at any time, don't put your hands in your pockets it makes u look useless.
> 
> ...



I take it you have been in the industry a long time for I have not heard such advice in decades! It is refreshing to read that there are still a few individuals out there that understand the principals of making a good impression. 


Good Show Mate!


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

HertzHound said:


> Even the neon tester has its place. It’s a great tool for finding out which is the hot wire if you are working with Knob and Tube wiring. Make sure your not grounded and hold one lead with the metal between you fingers. Place the other wire on the Knob and Tube conductors one at a time. The one that lights the lamp is the hot.
> 
> I still have one somewhere. I haven’t worked on Knob and Tube wiring in a long long time. I think they banned it because someone used a Wiggy tester on it.
> 
> It takes 90 volts to light the Neon, so it has no practical low voltage application.



Thanks for the tip. I am quite sure it will come in handy as time progress. 



Cheers!


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

I will need to buy a wire cutter in addition to a notepad. Thus far, will this be acceptable for the first day on the job as an apprentice? 



I do not smoke. Are Cigarette lighters needed at some point? 















Cheers!


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

If I was you I'd probably leave the fuse puller, lighter and the fancy meter in the car. 

It looks to me like you are missing two basic tools. Linesman pliers and wire strippers. You can probably get by without Linesman pliers til the first paycheck. You should be able to get a pair of T strippers for $18. When you replace your side cutters, get the angled head ones.

When you start buying more tools, buy an engraver for $20 and stick your initials on em. Every job almost everyone has the same Klein Linesman pliers, sides etc.. I had about $2000 in tools before I thought hey better mark these things. A locking knife should also be on the buy list, we are partial to the Milwaukee fastback or I pack a cheap bear gryls Gerber in my pocket, for $30 I can afford to lose it and it's so light I don't notice it. On that note too if you are doing outlets that neon tester is good to jam in the outlet to find and turn off, the bonus is it's small. I always have wire strippers, a knife, a felt and tick in my shirt, and a multidriver. Usually a half roll of tape too... 

You will probably need a junk pouch too if you're wearing tools, like a 2 pocket cheapy, I bought a 3 or 4 tier pocket but it's too long, gets in the way. I didn't see a hammer, ballpein for commercial to smash conduit holes in cinder block but it won't sit in that hammer hook/strap so a conventional claw hammer is good enough. Big beater screwdriver or 8-10" cold chisel.. Beware cold chisel is made for cutting steel.. Hmmm I think I may have posted this before haha.

Yeah man over 25yrs. I'm a career tradesmen, never worked retail or service industry.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Amperage said:


> I do not smoke. Are Cigarette lighters needed at some point?
> 
> 
> Cheers!


Cigarette lighter won’t be needed, but a few matches could come in handy. You use the matches as air fresheners after you drop a Duce in the customers bathroom. :vs_cool::vs_laugh:

Now that I think about it, I may have a better use for that fuse puller.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I use nail polish or phasing tape on most of my tools to identify that their mine. Black, Red, yellow. The colors of the German flag. If someone’s going to steal them, their going to steal them. This just helps on the hectic days when everyone has tools out everywhere.


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

Yeah I hate those arguments.. "These are my pliers, I don't know where yours are, these are mine because they have this scratch"

Cheap T strippers are great, if you are ever unsure if wires are hot use the $18 strippers to cut it rather than your $50 pliers. It hurts less. For that matter start treating everything like it's live, practice not contacting boxes etc while splicing. One day you will be working on something that you think is dead that isn't. Cut wires one at a time.

I absolutely love my ideal multiscrewdriver with the wire nut twister in the handle, I never get my pliers near a hot splice anymore, I can tighten poor splices without removing the wire nut.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

telsa said:


> A RANK APPRENTICE ought not to be around ANY hot circuits.
> 
> *He shouldn't even be in a situation where he needs to verify that a conductor is cold.
> *


Sorry, I have to comment on this. *Always* verify what you are working on is cold. Do *not* take anyone's word for your own safety. Ask your JM to show you/help you, but learn how to test for what you are working on is safe. Far more important than what particular brand of meter/wiggy/whatever you use, is that you are familiar enough with your own test gear to ensure what you are working on is dead. You may not get a second chance.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

On another note, I'm at the point in my career where I am downsizing the amount of tools I carry on my person. Figure out what you need for a particular job, the rest of tools are handy in the toolbox if you need them. Much lighter!


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

Yeah I gotta chime in with joe-nwt the first thing I tell new guys and repeat yearly/ monthly whatever is:

Don't trust anyone ever, not even me. Check it yourself. Multiple times if you have to, just because it was dead this morning doesn't mean it's dead now. Ive had guys I trust turn stuff on.


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## MCasey (Dec 7, 2016)

joe-nwt said:


> On another note, I'm at the point in my career where I am downsizing the amount of tools I carry on my person. Figure out what you need for a particular job, the rest of tools are handy in the toolbox if you need them. Much lighter!


Th men that taught me years ago had linemans, a screwdriver, and wiggy at all times while the rest o their tools resided in their pouch relatively close by.


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## Amperage (Aug 1, 2019)

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to steer me in the right direction. I will be focusing on completing the OSHA 30 so I can get in this industry as quickly as possible. 



Cheers!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

ToryJay said:


> In my opinion one of the important sets is gloves. Working as an electrician requires you to deal with plenty of safety hazards. ... You also need to wear the best work gloves for electricians. The best gloves for electrical work are often those that are dielectric and well-insulated as both these traits can prevent electric shocks.


What do you consider a good reason to be working on live wiring?

There really aren't many good logical reasons to work live outside of line work.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> What do you consider a good reason to be working on live wiring?
> 
> There really aren't many good logical reasons to work live outside of line work.


Either there's a hell of a coincidence or ToryJay plagiarized that post ... google the phrase 



> dielectric and well-insulated as both these traits


You'll see it on https://www.edcmag.com/best-work-gloves-for-electricians/ 

Now if it's not a coincidence, and combined with the cryptic personal profile that has something other than electrician, leads me to believe it's obviously a spammer, SEO hack, or other jack wad. But what do I know.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

splatz said:


> Either there's a hell of a coincidence or ToryJay plagiarized that post ... google the phrase
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't you dare go calling out hack and jackwad , they are my bestes't friends forever.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> Either there's a hell of a coincidence or ToryJay plagiarized that post ... google the phrase
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice catch!


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