# USB outlets



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don’t know of any code speaking to USB outlets. But I do know that they would need GFCI and AFCI protection just like any other outlet in that position.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Welcome to Electrician Talk fungi020.
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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

fungi020 said:


> I an trying to find the section number for the code dealing with USB receptacles and not having any luck. need to install several of them for a customer who wants them in the kitchen and bathroom where there are GFCIs. Trying to figure out what options I have.



Welcome aboard @fungi020!

What type of electrical work do you normally engage in?

Not sure what options you think you need, Hacks post kind of covered the basic install requirements.


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## Ctsparky93 (Sep 17, 2016)

fungi020 said:


> I an trying to find the section number for the code dealing with USB receptacles and not having any luck. need to install several of them for a customer who wants them in the kitchen and bathroom where there are GFCIs. Trying to figure out what options I have.




Gfci breakers will be your friend. What kind of a code are you looking for they aren’t required. Use the combo one that have usb/receptacle in one. To keep required receptacle locations. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Some time back, Leviton sent me some of their new duplex receptacles with the USB-B and the new standard USB-C jacks in them. They were pretty nice, but you need a DEEP wall box, like probably the 3" deep ones. If there are many connections in the box, I'd actually recommend a 2-1/8" deep 4-square with a mud ring so you can move the wire nuts to each side and have full depth for the device. I tried to put one in a regular 1-1/2 deep surface mounted 4-square with an RS cover, and it was a no-go. I had to put an extension ring on it. The receptacles with the USB outlets are a fair bit deeper than GFCI's, although GFCI's have gotten slightly slimmer as the years pass.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Some time back, Leviton sent me some of their new duplex receptacles with the USB-B and the new standard USB-C jacks in them. They were pretty nice, but you need a DEEP wall box, like probably the 3" deep ones. If there are many connections in the box, I'd actually recommend a 2-1/8" deep 4-square with a mud ring so you can move the wire nuts to each side and have full depth for the device. I tried to put one in a regular 1-1/2 deep surface mounted 4-square with an RS cover, and it was a no-go. I had to put an extension ring on it. The receptacles with the USB outlets are a fair bit deeper than GFCI's, although GFCI's have gotten slightly slimmer as the years pass.


Yeah, I learned this the hard way. When people want a USB outlet installed in one of the countertop positions in their older house, it can be pretty hairy trying to get it into those metal boxes with 2 sets of #12's


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, I learned this the hard way. When people want a USB outlet installed in one of the countertop positions in their older house, it can be pretty hairy trying to get it into those metal boxes with 2 sets of #12's


The non-metallic surface mounted box extenders like Arlington and Leviton and others make are very helpful in that instance. I always had one ivory and one white on the truck. Gives you an extra 3/4".


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## 3rdUserName (Nov 23, 2018)

HackWork said:


> MDShunk said:
> 
> 
> > Some time back, Leviton sent me some of their new duplex receptacles with the USB-B and the new standard USB-C jacks in them. They were pretty nice, but you need a DEEP wall box, like probably the 3" deep ones. If there are many connections in the box, I'd actually recommend a 2-1/8" deep 4-square with a mud ring so you can move the wire nuts to each side and have full depth for the device. I tried to put one in a regular 1-1/2 deep surface mounted 4-square with an RS cover, and it was a no-go. I had to put an extension ring on it. The receptacles with the USB outlets are a fair bit deeper than GFCI's, although GFCI's have gotten slightly slimmer as the years pass.
> ...


Leviton sent me the same one and I had the same issue. With Usb's being relatively new and most states still being on older code cycles, I doubt you will find much about it. Maybe addressed in the 17 nec edition.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> Some time back, Leviton sent me some of their new duplex receptacles with the USB-B and the new standard USB-C jacks in them. They were pretty nice, but you need a DEEP wall box, like probably the 3" deep ones. If there are many connections in the box, I'd actually recommend a 2-1/8" deep 4-square with a mud ring so you can move the wire nuts to each side and have full depth for the device. I tried to put one in a regular 1-1/2 deep surface mounted 4-square with an RS cover, and it was a no-go. I had to put an extension ring on it. The receptacles with the USB outlets are a fair bit deeper than GFCI's, although GFCI's have gotten slightly slimmer as the years pass.


Sometimes a 4 X 4 with a mud ring can even be a tough fit. I just finished a job with hospital grade GFCI’s and they barely fit through the ring.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, I learned this the hard way. When people want a USB outlet installed in one of the countertop positions in their older house, it can be pretty hairy trying to get it into those metal boxes with 2 sets of #12's


I've used this before. https://goo.gl/images/eoTw4y

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

99cents said:


> Sometimes a 4 X 4 with a mud ring can even be a tough fit. I just finished a job with hospital grade GFCI’s and they barely fit through the ring.


I've found lately it depends on the brand of mud ring you buy too. I've had problems trying to fit two occ sensors or two GFCIs into a 2-gang t&b mud ring, but the Hubbell ones fit just fine. Guess who only buys Hubbell mud rings now... 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

fungi020 said:


> i an trying to find the section number for the code dealing with usb receptacles and not having any luck. Need to install several of them for a customer who wants them in the kitchen and bathroom where there are gfcis. Trying to figure out what options i have.


406.3(f)


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## Gnome (Dec 25, 2013)

99cents said:


> Sometimes a 4 X 4 with a mud ring can even be a tough fit. I just finished a job with hospital grade GFCI’s and they barely fit through the ring.


The Hubbel units are a slightly different shape than the Leviton ones (one is a smidge taller and the other a smidge wider though I can't remember which is which) so I've got both in stock to handle different tight squeezes.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I wish that the aholes who make phones would and the device manufacturers would get a clue when it comes to these usb devices.

samsung androids in general seem to take forever to charge on the random usb receptacle (they like their own specific charger) and lately I've noticed my wife's icrap charges slowly on them as well.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

wildleg said:


> I wish that the aholes who make phones would and the device manufacturers would get a clue when it comes to these usb devices.
> 
> samsung androids in general seem to take forever to charge on the random usb receptacle (they like their own specific charger) and lately I've noticed my wife's icrap charges slowly on them as well.



How do you define slow charging?


It seems everyone has different baselines as to what's slow charging and what's normal battery life. I'd also imagine it depends on whether it's being used while charging and what's running while it's charging.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

slow charging: taking over 4 to 8 hours to charge a device when it takes 1 or 2 with the native charger


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

For a phone to take 4 hours or longer is insane.
If it were powered on with a teenager watching streaming video and 30 apps running I could see it taking 8 hours but blank screen sitting there if it's not charged in 4 hours that's too long. Even 4 hours seems longer than reasonable.


I remember 10+ years ago employees complaining their phones only lasted 2-3 days on a charge. I asked how long they expected it to last and they said a week. I told them they're required to charge it every day to keep it topped off in case of an outage. That's why I asked. Different people have different expectations.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

this is my (older) android. I had it plugged in next to me on a random wall usb, and as you can see, the charge will be finished in 2 hours for the remaining 30% !

I walked over and plugged it into the native charger and it will be charged in 1 hour.

now, I can't even read the wattage on these things without finding a magnifying glass, but comon !



















BTW, that widget isn't good at calculating the charge rate (they both say 1%), but it's pretty accurate about the time to charge


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I wish that the aholes who make phones would and the device manufacturers would get a clue when it comes to these usb devices.
> 
> samsung androids in general seem to take forever to charge on the random usb receptacle (they like their own specific charger) and lately I've noticed my wife's icrap charges slowly on them as well.


Are you using a USB outlet with a 2.1A output minimum?

Many USB outlets only put 1A out. Some may put out 2.1A or 2.4A, but not with both ports at the same time. So if you are charging 2 items you only get 1A per port.

The one that I use specifies 4.2A total so each port can charge up to 2.1A simultaneously. And with that, my iPhone and iPad as well as Android based devices charge just as fast as with the native charger.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

wildleg said:


> slow charging: taking over 4 to 8 hours to charge a device when it takes 1 or 2 with the native charger


I think the device "talks" to the charger and will only fast charge if it recognizes that the charger is designed for it. I know it goes the other way as well. When I plugged my turbo charger into my wife's phone that wasn't designed for it, it charges at a slow rate just like a standard charger.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

wildleg said:


> this is my (older) android. I had it plugged in next to me *on a random wall usb*, and as you can see, the charge will be finished in 2 hours for the remaining 30% !
> 
> I walked over and plugged it into the native charger and it will be charged in 1 hour.


Yeah, I am willing to be that outlet is the typical 1A USB port.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

The blue port on a pc has higher output so some say.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

MikeFL said:


> The blue port on a pc has higher output so some say.


Higher speed is the big deal. It can have higher amps too but most aren't even close to dedicated chargers. USB 3.0 is fast enough to run external drives close to internal speeds.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

99cents said:


> Sometimes a 4 X 4 with a mud ring can even be a tough fit. I just finished a job with hospital grade GFCI’s and they barely fit through the ring.


I had the same thing recently with a P&S receptacle, so I made the mud ring opening a little larger on the sides using a dremmel drill. Maybe I could srart a metal shop business modifying mud rings. :smile:


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Forge Boyz said:


> I think the device "talks" to the charger and will only fast charge if it recognizes that the charger is designed for it. I know it goes the other way as well. When I plugged my turbo charger into my wife's phone that wasn't designed for it, it charges at a slow rate just like a standard charger.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Yeah, as far as I understand, (at least in the case of a Samsung Galaxy), when the native charger sees that it's connected to the right phone, it actually puts out a higher voltage (like 9v or something). 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> Yeah, as far as I understand, (at least in the case of a Samsung Galaxy), when the native charger sees that it's connected to the right phone, it actually puts out a higher voltage (like 9v or something).


This is true, even the USB outlets that put out 2.4A won't do "fast charging" on a lot of newer phones.

But in the instance that wildleg was talking about, I think it was just a lower output USB port. That will lower the charging speed even further.

Just as an example, the little USB charger thing that I plug into my car has 2 USB ports, one labeled 1.0A and the other labeled 2.4A. Myself and my niece both had an iPhone 6S at the time and her phone charged much faster than mine due to being plugged into the higher output port. 









The one that I use now has both ports rated for 2.4A.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Some OEM phone chargers receive temperature information from the phone, and will stuff electrons into the phone as fast as the temperature information will permit it to. It's a technology adapted, more or less, from express chargers for forklifts.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

B-Nabs said:


> Yeah, as far as I understand, (at least in the case of a Samsung Galaxy), when the native charger sees that it's connected to the right phone, it actually puts out a higher voltage (like 9v or something).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Can confirm. I have a Samsung galaxy S6 and the charger is a fast charger only when plugged into a phone that supports it. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MikeFL said:


> The blue port on a pc has higher output so some say.





paulengr said:


> Higher speed is the big deal. It can have higher amps too but most aren't even close to dedicated chargers. USB 3.0 is fast enough to run external drives close to internal speeds.


The blue color coding was "recommended" but not required, now that most USB ports are USB3, you may see them with the usual black color but labelled "SS" to indicate USB3. 

If you see a lightning bolt on the USB port that means it will provide power even if the device is turned off.


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## Electrician-Guy (Dec 15, 2018)

I realize this is slightly off topic as it is not a code, but I have found that there are two different types of USB outlets. 

1 the standard 2.1A-4.2A variety with receptacles or not. Some of these have limits as to how many tablet size devices can be used. Sometimes the 3A or greater say they are (fast charge- HA!)

2 The fast charge with Qualcom quickcharge, generally for Samsung devices that can have up to 15v depending on the qualcom chip in your device. These can be labeled Qualcom 3.0 or 3.1 and usually have orange or green USB outlets. Some even have USB-C outlets.

For Iphones, The Quallcom outlets will give a slightly faster charge, but only marginally.
Instead, you should get the Apple 30w charger with USB-C and a USB-C to Lightning cable. This will only help with a phone or tablet newer than the iPhone 7 according to the apple store rep. I refuse to call them genius.


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## Infernality (12 mo ago)

If you have encountered the fact that the phone does not connect via USB, the computer does not see it to transfer files, but it only charges. At the same time, the connection sound is played.


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