# PLC Programming



## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

Would any of you happen to be one of those people who travel around to different sites to program PLC's? If so, I'll have more questions. it's late and I'm tired now. 

thanks


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

Probably safe to assume there are many such people like that on this forum. 
Ask away...


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## 04-20ma (Aug 21, 2011)

Sure do


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## jeepman (Jan 2, 2013)

I over see over 300 PLCs for gas and oil wells 
So yes I do travel around and program


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## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

great, and forgive me if I ramble and jump around.

I've always been pretty good with PLC but have never been able to get into that line of work. They want real world experience. I used to take refresher courses but haven't done that in years. Thinking about getting an Associate degree in the hopes that would make me a more attractive candidate.

Do you guys have degrees?

I would love to hear what type of work you guys do and what it involves on a daily basis. I know i want to transition into programming but I need details from insiders who could give me insight to plan my next move.

thanks


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

If you're already working as a journeyman industrial electrician, the prospect of quitting work to do school for 2 years is expensive, and I think unnecessary. I would certainly consider hiring an electrician with PLC experience before a Technologist with no experience. I'm not sure you'd end up much more marketable with a degree in this case. 

Most guys doing programming and automation design/startups, Plant PLC upgrades, HMI/SCADA work, etc (In other words, working for a "Systems Integrator") have Associates Degrees (Technicians/Technologists), but not all. In my opinion the best PLC techs are ex-maintenance guys who took the jump to consulting. Be they electricians, engineers, or technologists. And with projects- the projects you're doing are the ones that are too large/complex for customers to handle internally. 


Your best bet would be to tune up your resume to highlight your PLC training and try to get a job as a maintenance electrician at a plant with some automation, and sell yourself to them as being a guy to take on PLC stuff (Ideally, find a place whwere they actually want an electrician who is willing to take on looking after the PLC's, in general the workforce is getting older and lots of places are full of older guys who just want to pull cable and hammer on stuff, so a guy willing to do PLC stuff for these places is like gold, even if you don't have tons of experience, just a willingness and some courses is huge). 

Once you've done some small projects in a plant, Systems Integrators will start to give you more consideration. 

The thing to remember is that working as a Systems Integrator, your trouble call outs happen after the maintenance electrician on site has done all he can, and still can't solve the issue. This makes it exciting and interesting, but there's a certain amount of pressure when the site's down, none of the maintenance guys are there to fix it, you're there at a premium charge out rate, and everyone's looking to you. 

My work on a daily basis is hugely variable, which i like. I assist with engineering design on large projects in term of cable block diagrams and junction box locations and instrument layouts, trouble calls for HMI, or PLC's, large drives, etc. PLC upgrades, retrofits, control systems for new machines, etc etc. 

Hope this helps!


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## Hand4Hire (Aug 26, 2013)

daddymack said:


> I've always been pretty good with PLC but have never been able to get into that line of work. They want real world experience. I used to take refresher courses but haven't done that in years. Thinking about getting an Associate degree in the hopes that would make me a more attractive candidate.


I've been in the same boat as you. You might not need a degree if your resume paints you in a certain light, but if you have any sort of credit from apprenticeship programs or refresher courses it could apply towards certificate or associates at local college. I'm getting ready to jump out of the boat at some point and start applying for some better programming electrician jobs even without a full associates, with the help of a good resume.


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## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

Hand4Hire said:


> I've been in the same boat as you. You might not need a degree if your resume paints you in a certain light, but if you have any sort of credit from apprenticeship programs or refresher courses it could apply towards certificate or associates at local college. I'm getting ready to jump out of the boat at some point and start applying for some better programming electrician jobs even without a full associates, with the help of a good resume.


 I have some credits so I won't need 2 years to complete. I've aced PLC classes in the past and would help other students in the class. That said it's been a while and I need to refresh and perhaps catch up with the latest technology.


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## Hand4Hire (Aug 26, 2013)

I have yet to take a PLC class but worked on a module training program and went through the problems. Also bought some books from plcs.net. I did really good in motor controls class utilizing the ladder logic. Chomping at the bit to do it in real life. Just have to get a different job...


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## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

KennyW said:


> If you're already working as a journeyman industrial electrician, the prospect of quitting work to do school for 2 years is expensive, and I think unnecessary. I would certainly consider hiring an electrician with PLC experience before a Technologist with no experience. I'm not sure you'd end up much more marketable with a degree in this case.
> 
> Most guys doing programming and automation design/startups, Plant PLC upgrades, HMI/SCADA work, etc (In other words, working for a "Systems Integrator") have Associates Degrees (Technicians/Technologists), but not all. In my opinion the best PLC techs are ex-maintenance guys who took the jump to consulting. Be they electricians, engineers, or technologists. And with projects- the projects you're doing are the ones that are too large/complex for customers to handle internally.
> 
> ...


I'm a Journeymen electrician. Not an Industrial one although I feel I'm capable. That said most places in my neck of the woods hire Maintenance Personnel to handle Ind. electrical and other crafts.

I'm setting up an appointment with a career counselor at a local college. I've really just struggled with describing what I want to do. I want to be able to bring some knowledge to the meeting. I guess it's "Systems Integrators", where you program new machines onsite, but I assume you also do some in house? I don't mind traveling--some. How much of the job is travel? Say if a job requires a lot of travel would I even need to live near the home office? Curious if I should expand my job search farther then reasonable commute distance.

Thanks again


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## 04-20ma (Aug 21, 2011)

Well I an just a electrician and I got into programing by just studying on my own time. For the travel I work probly 60 percent in the field and 40 in the office I put a average of 6000km a month so you deffinettly get around being a systems integrator cause your always working on new stuff and old.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*learn on the job*

I do not have a degree, but served an apprenticeship as a electrical / electronic industrial control mechanic ( yes that was the title) back in the late 70's when PLC's just came out. I then went to work for a large company and got hands on experience. When they closed I started my own consulting business and customers did not care if I had a degree but that I did the job well and on time. It all depends on the company you want to do work for and their policy on machine modifications. Because I did not have a degree I was able to charge half of what an engineering firm would charge, and had unlimited work. When I had to hire someone while I worked for the large company, IN THE FIELD experance was what we wanted.


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## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

just the cowboy said:


> I do not have a degree, but served an apprenticeship as a electrical / electronic industrial control mechanic ( yes that was the title) back in the late 70's when PLC's just came out. I then went to work for a large company and got hands on experience. When they closed I started my own consulting business and customers did not care if I had a degree but that I did the job well and on time. It all depends on the company you want to do work for and their policy on machine modifications. Because I did not have a degree I was able to charge half of what an engineering firm would charge, and had unlimited work. When I had to hire someone while I worked for the large company, IN THE FIELD experance was what we wanted.



So what could an inexperienced person say or do to get you to hire them?

is there an entry level?


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

With minimal/no experience you'd need to be at the right place at the right time. 

One thing that helps is if you have some autocad training. 

We're more likely to hire a green guy if we feel that he can be productive helping with drawings during times where we don't have projects we can fit him into doing programming work.


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## CYoung (Apr 19, 2013)

KennyW said:


> With minimal/no experience you'd need to be at the right place at the right time.
> 
> One thing that helps is if you have some autocad training.
> 
> We're more likely to hire a green guy if we feel that he can be productive helping with drawings during times where we don't have projects we can fit him into doing programming work.


This is kind of where I am at right now. I have been working as an industrial electrician for the last thirteen years and have been trying to get into the automation end of it. The companies I have worked for would only let the "engineers" do any kind of programming. So I bite the bullet and go to school and continue working for two years to and receive an Associates degree. I have finally talked a local systems integrator into letting me work part time for him to see if I am capable of doing the job. I start Monday.


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## Hand4Hire (Aug 26, 2013)

CYoung said:


> This is kind of where I am at right now. I have been working as an industrial electrician for the last thirteen years and have been trying to get into the automation end of it. The companies I have worked for would only let the "engineers" do any kind of programming. So I bite the bullet and go to school and continue working for two years to and receive an Associates degree. I have finally talked a local systems integrator into letting me work part time for him to see if I am capable of doing the job. I start Monday.


Congratulations on the transition. I have been doing commercial work for 5 years and halfway in knew I had to try for an associates to do automation. whether those credits will help me find that golden job is yet to be seen.


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

CYoung said:


> This is kind of where I am at right now. I have been working as an industrial electrician for the last thirteen years and have been trying to get into the automation end of it. The companies I have worked for would only let the "engineers" do any kind of programming. So I bite the bullet and go to school and continue working for two years to and receive an Associates degree. I have finally talked a local systems integrator into letting me work part time for him to see if I am capable of doing the job. I start Monday.


That's awesome man, congrats. Your value will go up very quickly. A programmer with some experience who is also a journeyman sparky is a very desirable hire indeed.


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## CYoung (Apr 19, 2013)

KennyW said:


> That's awesome man, congrats. Your value will go up very quickly. A programmer with some experience who is also a journeyman sparky is a very desirable hire indeed.


Thank you....Hopefully I can make it through the owners trial run and he hires me full time. Any tips/suggestions as to what qualities would be the most beneficial to him?


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Logic logic and more logic for troubleshooting and design. Remember all projects need to be debugged on startup, if you have good logic and common sense that will help the most. 
Good luck

Master one thing THEN move on to others!


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

just the cowboy said:


> Logic logic and more logic for troubleshooting and design. Remember all projects need to be debugged on startup, if you have good logic and common sense that will help the most.
> Good luck
> 
> Master one thing THEN move on to others!


That, and interpersonal/people skills (difficult to learn). There can be a lot of pressure and chaos when either a plant is down or there are issues during commissioning (almost always is). Being able to keep a level head and be methodical and communicate well with all of the stressed out project managers when jobs start to go sideways is really good. That is what distinguishes a really good "controls guy" on site as opposed to just a "programmer".


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## daddymack (Jun 3, 2008)

CYoung said:


> This is kind of where I am at right now. I have been working as an industrial electrician for the last thirteen years and have been trying to get into the automation end of it. The companies I have worked for would only let the "engineers" do any kind of programming. So I bite the bullet and go to school and continue working for two years to and receive an Associates degree. I have finally talked a local systems integrator into letting me work part time for him to see if I am capable of doing the job. I start Monday.



That's what I plan to do as well, just offer to intern. If nothing else I get experience and a reference.

Would anyone be willing to discuss the salary range for Integrators?


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## allenc (Mar 3, 2011)

I work with a systems integrator. He is sub-contracted by our company for VFDs, PLCs, HMIs, the works. We are in the final phases of completing a massive automation project for all of our labs that he designed the primary logic for. Six CompactLogix controllers with a myriad of I/O. 6 PanelView Plus 1500s. All connected to LabView running on windows through RSLinx. When he is done I will be the one managing all of the systems and from what he has told me, the best way to get into it is to just jump into it and start learning it and being in the right place at the right time. That's what he did. He has a technical degree from a trade school and over 20 years of experience working for a systems integrator before he started his own one man band deal.


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## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

I am at automation direct in cumming ga for a three day Plc class this week .


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