# Customer says there is nothing



## NSC (Dec 4, 2012)

Tell them you won't do it without a new home run and charge up the ass for it.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

sad fact is that you really have no choice but to walk away. They are going to find someone to hook it up as is for cheap and unless thats going to be you, you have no choice but to just part ways


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

NSC said:


> Tell them you won't do it without a new home run and charge up the ass for it.


The whole thing needs to be ripped out.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Walk away?? 

In this order:
-See if the insulation is in good enough shape to heat shrink (no exposed copper).
-See if you can get the box down and pull some slack to get fresh insulation
-See if you can set a box in another location and fish in a piece of Romex to the fixture.

-John


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Big John said:


> Walk away??
> 
> In this order:
> -See if the insulation is in good enough shape to heat shrink (no exposed copper).
> ...


I choose walk away. :laughing: Really though, 1 & 2 aren't legal options.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

If that's an attic above that I would go back to good wire and jb. Make new to light 300 bucks.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

nolabama said:


> If that's an attic above that I would go back to good wire and jb. Make new to light 300 bucks.


First floor, so there will be holes.:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Sometimes you get lucky and there is slack above the ceiling...

All you need is about an inch of virgin cable.. cut back the BX and slide shrink tubing down the length of the exposed conductor.. good as new.. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Sometimes you get lucky and there is slack above the ceiling...
> 
> All you need is about an inch of virgin cable.. cut back the BX and slide shrink tubing down the length of the exposed conductor.. good as new.. :thumbsup:


Does the shrink tubing give you the 90 deg C rating?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Does the shrink tubing give you the 90 deg C rating?


The cable is existing.. it gets grandfathered in.. same as K&T.. I would rather make it safe.. hang the fixture and let the HO make the decision on how much money he wants to spend..


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Does the shrink tubing give you the 90 deg C rating?


 In my eyes, yes. But if I were failed for it, I'd have trouble arguing.

But I think 105° 600V heavy-wall heat shrink is more than sufficient.

-John


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

Harry, I'm not hating but why is every picture you post a screen shot of your camera roll? Just wondering as it would seem more difficult to do it this way than just adding an image using the ET App.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

running dummy said:


> Harry, I'm not hating but why is every picture you post a screen shot of your camera roll? Just wondering as it would seem more difficult to do it this way than just adding an image using the ET App.


Because I bumped the pictures up front and to get them in order.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> The cable is existing.. it gets grandfathered in.. same as K&T.. I would rather make it safe.. hang the fixture and let the HO make the decision on how much money he wants to spend..


I'm pretty sure that 410.74 does not allow us to install fixtures that are need wire that is more than 60C.

*410.74 Luminaire Rating.*
(A) Marking. All luminaires shall be marked with the maximum
lamp wattage or electrical rating, manufacturer’s name,
trademark, or other suitable means of identification. A luminaire
requiring supply wire rated higher than 60°C (140°F)
shall be marked with the minimum supply wire temperature
rating on the luminaire and shipping carton or equivalent.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Big John said:


> In my eyes, yes. But if I were failed for it, I'd have trouble arguing.
> 
> But I think 105° 600V heavy-wall heat shrink is more than sufficient.
> 
> -John


Kemosabe speak truth....

~CS~


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> I'm pretty sure that 410.74 does not allow us to install fixtures that are need wire that is more than 60C.
> 
> *410.74 Luminaire Rating.*
> (A) Marking. All luminaires shall be marked with the maximum
> ...


Harry that is fine.. but we don't live in a perfect world.. the fixture manufacture is covering his ass.. you have a cable that is (80) years old.. 

Doing as I posted IMO.. makes the ceiling box and existing cables much safer than the way it was before I got there..


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## NSC (Dec 4, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> The whole thing needs to be ripped out.


That's what a new home run is.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Harry that is fine.. but we don't live in a perfect world.. the fixture manufacture is covering his ass.. you have a cable that is (80) years old..
> 
> Doing as I posted IMO.. makes the ceiling box and existing cables much safer than the way it was before I got there..


Yes I know that I was just pointing out the article to see everyone's opinion on it.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Big John said:


> Walk away??
> 
> In this order:
> -See if the insulation is in good enough shape to heat shrink (no exposed copper).
> ...





electricmanscott said:


> I choose walk away. :laughing: Really though, 1 & 2 aren't legal options.


Why not?



HARRY304E said:


> Does the shrink tubing give you the 90 deg C rating?



These 3M tubes are:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/3M-Color-Heat-Shrink-Tubing-Kit-4NU23

" ... Temp Range -55 to 135 C..."


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Celtic said:


> Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good thanks for the link.:thumbsup:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Kemosabe speak truth....
> 
> ~CS~


Yes indeedy. Must be NORTHERN New England wisdom. :whistling2:


:laughing:


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

..I used the 3m shrink tube in a kitchen light that looked very similar...carry it with me all the time...works great and you look like a wizzard...they make a mil-spec rated tube aswell...super tough..:thumbsup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

or..... as the age old argument goes, one can splice an inch of 90 wire to the 60 wire, then the fixture is made to the short 90 wires.....:whistling2:~CS~


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

RGH said:


> ..I used the 3m shrink tube in a kitchen light that looked very similar...carry it with me all the time...works great and you look like a wizzard...they make a mil-spec rated tube aswell...super tough..:thumbsup:


 I use the shrink from H-F. It's still better than using tape on those old crumbling RH wires. Even the heat gun for shrinking it came from there.:laughing:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

If you need more heat protection, get some of the high temp fiberglass cloth tubing used in appliance and heater wiring.

It is hilarious to hear the "rip-it-out" crowd get fired up. Old BX? Can't hang a light there... rip it out. Old fuse box? Can't have that.. time for a new panel... rip it out. Knob & tube? Surprised the place hasn't exploded... rip it out. Two-wire receptacle? Jesus Christ your children are about to die! Rip it out!

Old wiring is a niche market that so many suppossed electricians overlook. Not every homeowner can afford to rip everything out. Sometimes, old fuse boxes get a new circuit...


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> If you need more heat protection, get some of the high temp fiberglass cloth tubing used in appliance and heater wiring.
> 
> It is hilarious to hear the "rip-it-out" crowd get fired up. Old BX? Can't hang a light there... rip it out. Old fuse box? Can't have that.. time for a new panel... rip it out. Knob & tube? Surprised the place hasn't exploded... rip it out. Two-wire receptacle? Jesus Christ your children are about to die! Rip it out!
> 
> Old wiring is a niche market that so many suppossed electricians overlook. Not every homeowner can afford to rip everything out. Sometimes, old fuse boxes get a new circuit...



When they do decide to upgrade..... They aint gonna call the guy (Mr. Road block) that wanted to re-wire their house when all they wanted was a new fixture mounted.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> If you need more heat protection, get some of the high temp fiberglass cloth tubing used in appliance and heater wiring.
> 
> It is hilarious to hear the "rip-it-out" crowd get fired up. Old BX? Can't hang a light there... rip it out. Old fuse box? Can't have that.. time for a new panel... rip it out. Knob & tube? Surprised the place hasn't exploded... rip it out. Two-wire receptacle? Jesus Christ your children are about to die! Rip it out!
> 
> Old wiring is a niche market that so many suppossed electricians overlook. Not every homeowner can afford to rip everything out. Sometimes, old fuse boxes get a new circuit...


Yup and that's why there are so many houses that have all that old stuff.


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