# Going Union... Is it worth it?



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Lifetime nonunion guy says

"Stay a free man!"


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

AllWIRES said:


> Lifetime nonunion guy says
> 
> "Stay a free man!"


Yeah, because we're slaves at work. Guys like this need to read our constitution. We believe in working hard and not over working ourselves. We believe in a safe working environment and not being pushed around by a company. We believe in knowledge and protection of our trade. We believe in being their for one another like a family member would be. We believe in a fair living wage. We believe in our union. I can't think of a better work environment. I worked non union for 13 years, I've been in the union for 1 and a 1/2.


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

I believe in all that too. 

Difference is I get it myself. No need for a brotherhood...

... Not that there's anything wrong with that...


----------



## Mich drew (Mar 3, 2013)

I've been in the union 25 years, worked non union my first 3 years in the trade. Going union for me was the best choice for my career, as I live in a strong union area. Good training, good wages, good benefits, and the opportunity to retire in 5 more years with a pension . Thankful I got the opportunity to work with some darn good tradesman in my career. I would definitely take the leap if it is available to you.


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

AllWIRES said:


> I believe in all that too.
> 
> Difference is I get it myself. No need for a brotherhood...
> 
> ... Not that there's anything wrong with that...


Then why the comment? How'd you form that.


----------



## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Here we go...


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

T&K said:


> Here we go...


Thanks. That helped. Lol

I'm just trying to understand how he has an opinion and he's never been a member, just amazes me. I could care less what he thinks about it.


----------



## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Thanks. That helped. Lol I'm just trying to understand how he has an opinion and he's never been a member, just amazes me. I could care less what he thinks about it.


what kind of vehicle do you drive? Ford, Chevy, dodge, import, truck, car, SUV, van, truck with utility bed, service van, etc. I'm sure you probably haven't owned them all, but probably have an opinion on all of them. His opinion just isn't yours, yours isn't his, and neither one is mine.


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

T&K said:


> what kind of vehicle do you drive? Ford, Chevy, dodge, import, truck, car, SUV, van, truck with utility bed, service van, etc. I'm sure you probably haven't owned them all, but probably have an opinion on all of them. His opinion just isn't yours, yours isn't his, and neither one is mine.


Her we go!

I drive a Bentley roadster because of the union by the way. Does that help.


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

And to be honest, your gonna love this, I d not have an opinion on them I've never owned some of them.


----------



## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Her we go! I drive a Bentley roadster because of the union by the way. Does that help.


are you saying that because you make more money as a union guy versus a non union guy? I was simply saying here we go because this thread was yet another union bashing/non union bashing/union is better/non union is better thread. No need to get upset, we all know by your username what your stance is. Here's one for ya. You worked non union 13 years, and union 1-1/2 years. "Is it worth being self employed, and work for yourself?"


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

T&K said:


> are you saying that because you make more money as a union guy versus a non union guy? I was simply saying here we go because this thread was yet another union bashing/non union bashing/union is better/non union is better thread. No need to get upset, we all know by your username what your stance is. Here's one for ya. You worked non union 13 years, and union 1-1/2 years. "Is it worth being self employed, and work for yourself?"


I don't drive a Bentley, I have a 2000 dodge dakota with 120k on it and a missing front bumper that I just spent $2000 on today to get new tires, rack and pinion, power steering pump and an oil change. I am upset because the notion that the ibew is a bad thing is most definitely wrong. Unfortunately there is other non construction union out their that make all unions look bad. I just did a media recording for you tube and some local city venues yesterday to hopefully change the general nieve outlook on the ibew. I don't want to work for myself by the way nor am I intrigued by it but good luck with it. I wished this wasn't an upsetting subject. It doesn't have to be. Maybe one day this will change. I hope.


----------



## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

Chrisibew440 said:


> I don't drive a Bentley, I have a 2000 dodge dakota with 120k on it and a missing front bumper that I just spent $2000 on today to get new tires, rack and pinion, power steering pump and an oil change. I am upset because the notion that the ibew is a bad thing is most definitely wrong. Unfortunately there is other non construction union out their that make all unions look bad. I just did a media recording for you tube and some local city venues yesterday to hopefully change the general nieve outlook on the ibew. I don't want to work for myself by the way nor am I intrigued by it but good luck with it. I wished this wasn't an upsetting subject. It doesn't have to be. Maybe one day this will change. I hope.


 don't get so caught up in the whole "IBEW is the only way to be, and it makes me better because of it" stance. Everything you said the IBEW stands for in your first post, I feel the same way, I just rely on myself for it. We could have this same conversation about being self employed, and working for someone else. My first question would be why would you want to make someone else all the money when you are most likely more than capable (with 15 years experience) of doing it for yourself? While your stance of good working environment, good pay, and good benefits is great, how about I sweeten that deal and add to it by saying you can have all that, and if you choose, not have to work 40 hours every week, and enjoy life. Keep your pants on, I don't bash unions, I was a member for 8 years in the USWA as an electrician employed by 2 different factories and it was great. However, I'm also not going to bash non union because it has been just as great, and even better at times.


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

T&K said:


> don't get so caught up in the whole "IBEW is the only way to be, and it makes me better because of it" stance. Everything you said the IBEW stands for in your first post, I feel the same way, I just rely on myself for it. We could have this same conversation about being self employed, and working for someone else. My first question would be why would you want to make someone else all the money when you are most likely more than capable (with 15 years experience) of doing it for yourself? While your stance of good working environment, good pay, and good benefits is great, how about I sweeten that deal and add to it by saying you can have all that, and if you choose, not have to work 40 hours every week, and enjoy life. Keep your pants on, I don't bash unions, I was a member for 8 years in the USWA as an electrician employed by 2 different factories and it was great. However, I'm also not going to bash non union because it has been just as great, and even better at times.


I never bashed the non union so were clear. And I don't think it's the only way to go just better then some methods. What I'm trying to get at is how can you bash if you've never been a member. It's like food, don't knock it till you try it. The non union world never ever did anything bad to me, I just found myself getting older with nothing to show for it and I worked my butt off for ten bucks less an hour then I'm making now.( I still bust my hump ) And yeah! I got fed up with it. As electricians were worth quite a bit to a company, not just dollars but reputation and longevity of an employee.and I don't mind making somebody else money as long as I make a descent wage doing it. Hell! You think I don't know that my general foremans are allowed to negotiate wages outside of our agreement. Ill still bust my butt for him and the company.


----------



## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

Any BAs here? Feel free to join in!


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

Hahaha. Since the real trolls left for other pastures these union vs non union threads have lost their appeal. 

To new members. There are TONS of these threads if you just search for them. ALL of them the same question with the same answers and same stupid bickering. The only difference is the bickering now is just lame and stupid instead of down right offensive.


----------



## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Chrisibew440 said:


> I am upset because the notion that the ibew is a bad thing is most definitely wrong.


That notion doesn't come from anywhere, that's the picture they've painted for themselves. 

Union guys often trespass onto our jobs preaching their junk, bothering our employees and wasting their time. If our guys wanted to be union, they know where the hall is. Only problem with that, the second you walk in there they laugh you right back out and tell you the only way in is to flip your company. Sounds like a great place to work...


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> Hahaha. Since the real trolls left for other pastures these union vs non union threads have lost their appeal.
> 
> To new members. There are TONS of these threads if you just search for them. ALL of them the same question with the same answers and same stupid bickering. The only difference is the bickering now is just lame and stupid instead of down right offensive.


What do you want to bicker about? We can't force you to be right!!:laughing::laughing:
If someone wants to join the union, go ahead! It's good to hear Chris say that they are working to improve the union's image. Maybe they could start a Just Say No To Inflatable Rats drive???:laughing: That's the biggest problem I've seen with the union and if they want to turn things around, it will have to start with changing the public's perception of the leg-breaking, union worker that goes around tearing out the non-union contractors work or picketing at his house. Around my area, the only union electricians are the ones that come in to work on the large projects that us smaller guys would never want. I can see the advantage if you were a large contractor, of being able to have the amount of workers when you need them, with the skills that are required and then being able to bench them when the job is finished. I don't know what the job market is like in your area but around here the work is picking up and it looks like there will be a shortage of skilled labor.


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

wendon said:


> What do you want to bicker about? We can't force you to be right!!:laughing::laughing: If someone wants to join the union, go ahead! It's good to hear Chris say that they are working to improve the union's image. Maybe they could start a Just Say No To Inflatable Rats drive???:laughing: That's the biggest problem I've seen with the union and if they want to turn things around, it will have to start with changing the public's perception of the leg-breaking, union worker that goes around tearing out the non-union contractors work or picketing at his house. Around my area, the only union electricians are the ones that come in to work on the large projects that us smaller guys would never want. I can see the advantage if you were a large contractor, of being able to have the amount of workers when you need them, with the skills that are required and then being able to bench them when the job is finished. I don't know what the job market is like in your area but around here the work is picking up and it looks like there will be a shortage of skilled labor.



It's ALL been said before wendon. Not arguing your points. The same question like OP asked is asked at least once a week. If OP just searched old threads he'd find his answer. Why keep old threads if people are too lazy to search them?


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> It's ALL been said before wendon. Not arguing your points. The same question like OP asked is asked at least once a week. If OP just searched old threads he'd find his answer. Why keep old threads if people are too lazy to search them?


Right!:thumbsup:


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

I'll go sign book 4 so I can participate in these threads then


----------



## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

How strong is the union in your area? How many guys are sitting at the hall? how many contractors are signatory? Several years back it was an easy decision as work was plentiful all across the country you could walk through at just about every local. I was brought in as a JW because the hall could not fill the calls. Today the local has several hundred waiting for work. I worked non union and really did not see a lot of difference as far as safety and working conditions . The thing to remember is if you quiit your job and the union cant get you out right away you cant get unemployment.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Funny how rewire and wendon always have a negative opinion of the union and are always in the union section crying, yet they claim the union has very little presence or affect on there work area. Hmmmmmmmm gotta make you wonder.


----------



## T.Jack (Sep 5, 2012)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Hell! You think I don't know that my general foremans are allowed to negotiate wages outside of our agreement. Ill still bust my butt for him and the company.


Just a FYI anyone is allowed to negotiate their wages in the union. The agreement is purely a minimum wage. As a first year apprentice I was making $2 over scale and I know of a few jws and foreman who make over scale as well


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

skeeter34 said:


> I currently work for a merit shop, and strongly considering going union. I got the job pretty quickly after 8 yrs in the Marine Corps. I don't like the direction my company is going and have been doing a lot of research on switching to the IBEW. It seems like a great idea. Just looking for any advice you can give me thanks.


As a former Marine, the IBEW and it's structure are perfectly suited for military types. Brotherhood, working hard and dedicated, not caring what the haters think.
Plenty of opportunity for hard working dedicated folks like us.

I say go for it.


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

Now that the OP doesn't even want to be an electrician at all.....


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

The union may not help JWs right now but definitely will help Apprentice get into the field. I wont bash the union if it is helping me get into the field by training me and helping me get a college degree. If it means I only work for them 5 years then I am on my own then so be it.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> Funny how rewire and wendon always have a negative opinion of the union and are always in the union section crying, yet they claim the union has very little presence or affect on there work area. Hmmmmmmmm gotta make you wonder.


Funny how you don't dare say anything with any sort of a negative slant to it and some, notice I said some, of you guys can't handle it. I seriously doubt if any of the union guys with class on here have ever inflated a rat.:no::no:


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

wendon said:


> Funny how you don't dare say anything with any sort of a negative slant to it and some, notice I said some, of you guys can't handle it. I seriously doubt if any of the union guys with class on here have ever inflated a rat.:no::no:


Don't ever plan to either. That's the part of the union that's embarrassing.


----------



## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Don't ever plan to either. That's the part of the union that's embarrassing.


Why not??? Big inflatable rats look cool and scream " I'm a professional! ".


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

Phatstax said:


> Why not??? Big inflatable rats look cool and scream " I'm a professional! ".


That's true. Just seems unprofessional.


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

wendon said:


> Funny how you don't dare say anything with any sort of a negative slant to it and some, notice I said some, of you guys can't handle it. I seriously doubt if any of the union guys with class on here have ever inflated a rat.:no::no:


What are you talking about? Inflating a rat? I have been union since I started as a first year apprentice and never seen that.

Are you offended that some one called you a rat? Why? It goes both ways man. Every non union guy I have ever met tells me I must be lazy because I'm union.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

wendon said:


> Funny how you don't dare say anything with any sort of a negative slant to it and some, notice I said some, of you guys can't handle it. I seriously doubt if any of the union guys with class on here have ever inflated a rat.:no::no:


I've said before it's not a perfect system, but what system is. Just calling bull on your inflatable rat line of thinking. Maybe it's you that can't take a little negative pressure.:thumbsup:


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Chrisibew440 said:


> Don't ever plan to either. That's the part of the union that's embarrassing.


. I've paid my way out of that embarrassment twice now . The most recent , they were picketing an ex members house where he , his wife and kids reside ! He left the union like 10 years ago , opened up his own shop and is getting bigger , and starting to win some small commercial jobs . God forbid , anyone tries to make it on their own , lol ! My local got slammed , and rightfully so , over that classless move !


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

skeeter34 said:


> I currently work for a merit shop, and strongly considering going union. I got the job pretty quickly after 8 yrs in the Marine Corps. I don't like the direction my company is going and have been doing a lot of research on switching to the IBEW. It seems like a great idea. Just looking for any advice you can give me thanks.


. It really depends on the type of person you are ? If you're a highly motivated , free thinker , who doesn't necessarily like the " all for one and one for all " mentality , the IBEW may not be for you ? It's a great gig for a lot of people , but not everyone . Give it a shot , you have nothing to lose !


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

kg7879 said:


> What are you talking about? Inflating a rat? I have been union since I started as a first year apprentice and never seen that.
> 
> Are you offended that some one called you a rat? Why? It goes both ways man. Every non union guy I have ever met tells me I must be lazy because I'm union.


Nobody ever call me a rat!! Who's approval does the union need to gain? The public's, correct? Just saying that I've never heard of a non-union shop coming in and tearing out a union shop's work. Maybe has happened but I've never heard of it. I've never seen a non-union shop picketing or anything of the sort either. I really don't care that much, just saying if you're looking for support, you're going to have to improve your public image.


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

wendon said:


> Nobody ever call me a rat!! Who's approval does the union need to gain? The public's, correct? Just saying that I've never heard of a non-union shop coming in and tearing out a union shop's work. Maybe has happened but I've never heard of it. I've never seen a non-union shop picketing or anything of the sort either. I really don't care that much, just saying if you're looking for support, you're going to have to improve your public image.


. Oh , you're missing out , until you've been labelled a rat , lol ! I worked for a contractor that was number one on the locals " rat wall of shame " . Of course , once he organized , we're all good buddies now , lol ?


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

wendon said:


> Nobody ever call me a rat!! Who's approval does the union need to gain? The public's, correct? Just saying that I've never heard of a non-union shop coming in and tearing out a union shop's work. Maybe has happened but I've never heard of it. I've never seen a non-union shop picketing or anything of the sort either. I really don't care that much, just saying if you're looking for support, you're going to have to improve your public image.


No I haven't heard of a non union shop ripping out a union shops work before either. They usually use it as a teaching tool for the way work should be done. 

I have ripped out or fixed plenty of non union work in my life. I'm a small shop not capable of coming up with the capitol to do a large project like a school. Besides most of those go non union because of the govt "lowest bid only" rules. I do service work for a large school district, so I get to see these new schools after completion. How they EVER passed inspection is beyond me. I've seen the large non unions work and I'm not impressed. Shunt trips not wired, wrong sized wire for RTU, 30 amp fuses forced into a 60 amp sized disconnect, (that was amusing), occ sensors wired wrong, and tons of other stuff. All the neutrals being tied together not caring what circuits they were for, loose connections at panels, no support on pipe or mc, abandoned boxes because the pipe was lossed in the pour and no attempt to refeed was made. The list goes on and on. Including horrible pipe work and switchgear that looks like a child installed. Fixtures in the grid with no support or hurricane clips installed. 
I'll admit things the union does aren't all smart. However, when I see these "merit" guys work it makes me laugh how they think they can throw the first stone. Those that do that level of work truly earn the name RAT.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

wendon said:


> Nobody ever call me a rat!! Who's approval does the union need to gain? The public's, correct? Just saying that I've never heard of a non-union shop coming in and tearing out a union shop's work. Maybe has happened but I've never heard of it. I've never seen a non-union shop picketing or anything of the sort either. I really don't care that much, just saying if you're looking for support, you're going to have to improve your public image.


And your idea of improvement is acting more like nonunion? :laughing: What's your problem with protesting and first amendment free speech? You want to squash that too?


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

Unions have good points and bad points. Each union is different. Back in the day my parents worked for a company that all the illegals wanted to go union. They got their wish and the next day the company moved. Union didn't benefit them. I worked for a BIG UNION for a delivery company and when the company was struggling because they were paying us more than they were profiting the company went to the union and asked to renegotiate. Instead of the union coming to us they refused and then company went from 700 full time workers and 250 part time workers down to 75 full time workers and 25 part timers. I have also seen that Unions do help people keep their jobs when companies screw them but I seen companies screw workers more cause they are union. I am a hard working guy and I use to hate when the union told me I work too fast and to hard and need to slow down to make the company have to hire more workers. I don't want to work for a company filled with lazy ass workers.


----------



## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

union347sparky said:


> No I haven't heard of a non union shop ripping out a union shops work before either. They usually use it as a teaching tool for the way work should be done.
> 
> I have ripped out or fixed plenty of non union work in my life. I'm a small shop not capable of coming up with the capitol to do a large project like a school. Besides most of those go non union because of the govt "lowest bid only" rules. I do service work for a large school district, so I get to see these new schools after completion. How they EVER passed inspection is beyond me. I've seen the large non unions work and I'm not impressed. Shunt trips not wired, wrong sized wire for RTU, 30 amp fuses forced into a 60 amp sized disconnect, (that was amusing), occ sensors wired wrong, and tons of other stuff. All the neutrals being tied together not caring what circuits they were for, loose connections at panels, no support on pipe or mc, abandoned boxes because the pipe was lossed in the pour and no attempt to refeed was made. The list goes on and on. Including horrible pipe work and switchgear that looks like a child installed. Fixtures in the grid with no support or hurricane clips installed.
> I'll admit things the union does aren't all smart. However, when I see these "merit" guys work it makes me laugh how they think they can throw the first stone. Those that do that level of work truly earn the name RAT.


I've seen that out of union work, and could add to that list, as I'm sure you can. As a matter of fact, when it comes to residential in this area, my stiffest competitors for high end residential is a union electrician using his employers contractors license (which includes the mandatory insurance policies) and then doing the job for $1000 less. Seems "scabbish" to me. In this area, in all of the union shops, there is usually only a few real electricians, and the rest couldn't tell you how a 3 way switch works.


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Fatdaddy said:


> Unions have good points and bad points. Each union is different. Back in the day my parents worked for a company that all the illegals wanted to go union. They got their wish and the next day the company moved. Union didn't benefit them. I worked for a BIG UNION for a delivery company and when the company was struggling because they were paying us more than they were profiting the company went to the union and asked to renegotiate. Instead of the union coming to us they refused and then company went from 700 full time workers and 250 part time workers down to 75 full time workers and 25 part timers. I have also seen that Unions do help people keep their jobs when companies screw them but I seen companies screw workers more cause they are union. I am a hard working guy and I use to hate when the union told me I work too fast and to hard and need to slow down to make the company have to hire more workers. I don't want to work for a company filled with lazy ass workers.


. Very true ! My former employer was a guy a considered a friend and was pretty close with . All that changed when his company organized . He became less available to the men and distanced himself from the guys that helped him grow over the years . Eventually a lot of these long term employees started getting let go one by one ( myself included ) , and if he did know , he sure didn t care , lol ? The personal employee / employer level basically disappeared because technically he no longer considered any of us permanent employees anymore . Just one negative I've experienced . I realize I'm just a number now and will do my job and do it well , but I'm never expecting to stay with a contractor anymore . If it happens , great , but if not , I'm not losing sleep over it , it's the name of the game .


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

union347sparky said:


> No I haven't heard of a non union shop ripping out a union shops work before either. They usually use it as a teaching tool for the way work should be done.  I have ripped out or fixed plenty of non union work in my life. I'm a small shop not capable of coming up with the capitol to do a large project like a school. Besides most of those go non union because of the govt "lowest bid only" rules. I do service work for a large school district, so I get to see these new schools after completion. How they EVER passed inspection is beyond me. I've seen the large non unions work and I'm not impressed. Shunt trips not wired, wrong sized wire for RTU, 30 amp fuses forced into a 60 amp sized disconnect, (that was amusing), occ sensors wired wrong, and tons of other stuff. All the neutrals being tied together not caring what circuits they were for, loose connections at panels, no support on pipe or mc, abandoned boxes because the pipe was lossed in the pour and no attempt to refeed was made. The list goes on and on. Including horrible pipe work and switchgear that looks like a child installed. Fixtures in the grid with no support or hurricane clips installed. I'll admit things the union does aren't all smart. However, when I see these "merit" guys work it makes me laugh how they think they can throw the first stone. Those that do that level of work truly earn the name RAT.


. I'm not doubting you , but I've seen some pretty bad installations over the years , done by union contractors too . I used to work for a merit shop and believe me , nothing got done half assed at all ! I think you'll find guys that don't care on either side of the fence unfortunately . This is bad for the trade in general whether you're union or not .


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

At the risk of being a butinsky idealoge , you union folk do have a significant 100th aniversary 

~CS~


----------



## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Loose Neutral said:


> Funny how rewire and wendon always have a negative opinion of the union and are always in the union section crying, yet they claim the union has very little presence or affect on there work area. Hmmmmmmmm gotta make you wonder.


I have no doubt that you would like the union view to be the only one expressed in this forum .Funny how you fear a view that is not lock step with the union propaganda that you are fed. HMMMMM makes me wonder.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Fatdaddy said:


> . Instead of the union coming to us they refused and then company went from 700 full time workers and 250 part time workers down to 75 full time workers and 25 part timers.


 No company with 700 full timers and 250 part timers can simply downsize to 75 full timers and 25 part timers and survive.

This didn't happen, you are a liar.



> I have also seen that Unions do help people keep their jobs when companies screw them but I seen companies screw workers more cause they are union. I am a hard working guy and I use to hate when the union told me I work too fast and to hard and need to slow down to make the company have to hire more workers


 No union tells a member to slow down so the company has to hire more workers.

This never happened, and you are once again, a liar.


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> No company with 700 full timers and 250 part timers can simply downsize to 75 full timers and 25 part timers and survive


Go nonunion and they can...


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> No company with 700 full timers and 250 part timers can simply downsize to 75 full timers and 25 part timers and survive.
> 
> This didn't happen, you are a liar.
> 
> ...


 DHL Local 705

your rebuttal of just calling me a liar is amusing


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

drumnut08 said:


> . Oh , you're missing out , until you've been labelled a rat , lol ! I worked for a contractor that was number one on the locals " rat wall of shame " . Of course , once he organized , we're all good buddies now , lol ?


Wouldn't fly in my neck of the woods.......:no:


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Fatdaddy said:


> DHL Local 705 your rebuttal of just calling me a liar is amusing


. Wait , didn't DHL go under ? I guess this helps explain why , lol ?


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

IslandGuy said:


> And your idea of improvement is acting more like nonunion? :laughing: What's your problem with protesting and first amendment free speech? You want to squash that too?


What am I going to protest about? That I have so much work I don't know which way to turn?? Where would I go around here to picket and what would I picket for? A shorter, warmer winter would be nice.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

union347sparky said:


> No I haven't heard of a non union shop ripping out a union shops work before either. They usually use it as a teaching tool for the way work should be done.
> 
> I have ripped out or fixed plenty of non union work in my life. I'm a small shop not capable of coming up with the capitol to do a large project like a school. Besides most of those go non union because of the govt "lowest bid only" rules. I do service work for a large school district, so I get to see these new schools after completion. How they EVER passed inspection is beyond me. I've seen the large non unions work and I'm not impressed. Shunt trips not wired, wrong sized wire for RTU, 30 amp fuses forced into a 60 amp sized disconnect, (that was amusing), occ sensors wired wrong, and tons of other stuff. All the neutrals being tied together not caring what circuits they were for, loose connections at panels, no support on pipe or mc, abandoned boxes because the pipe was lossed in the pour and no attempt to refeed was made. The list goes on and on. Including horrible pipe work and switchgear that looks like a child installed. Fixtures in the grid with no support or hurricane clips installed.
> I'll admit things the union does aren't all smart. However, when I see these "merit" guys work it makes me laugh how they think they can throw the first stone. Those that do that level of work truly earn the name RAT.


Are you saying that Iowa doesn't have prevailing wage on government jobs? Out here, even the truckers hauling asphalt on a government paving job are "forced" to charge a higher rate than normal.


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

IslandGuy said:


> No company with 700 full timers and 250 part timers can simply downsize to 75 full timers and 25 part timers and survive. This didn't happen, you are a liar. No union tells a member to slow down so the company has to hire more workers. This never happened, and you are once again, a liar.


. Well , in fat daddy's defense , I've never actually had my local tell me to slow down , but I have had some totally useless slugs tell me to slow down , because I was making them look bad , lol ! That same crap happens in every local . There are the group of guys that actually do the work ( the contractor may keep them because of this ) , then there's the group of guys who have mastered the technique of looking busy without actually getting any real work done . These are the ones that are down the road again , and again , and again .


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

wendon said:


> Wouldn't fly in my neck of the woods.......:no:


. It didn't bother me because I was making more in my check than they were , lol ! Years of badgering and the IBEW telling him how much better signing would be for his company , wore him down . Sure , he's still rich , and doesn't have a worry in the world , but he had that before , so I'm not sure where this benefitted him any ? They were picketing a job I was on once and it was pouring out . One guy asked me if he could enter our job trailer to get out of the rain . He didn't realize we were the contractor he was picketing , lol ! I asked what their beef was . He goes on and on about unfair wages and we weren't getting the rate . I showed him a check stub and he kindly apologized and left .


----------



## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

wendon said:


> Are you saying that Iowa doesn't have prevailing wage on government jobs? Out here, even the truckers hauling asphalt on a government paving job are "forced" to charge a higher rate than normal.


Not schools. Lowest bid only. As of prevailing wage jobs I'm not sure to tell you the truth. I'll admit I'm out of the loop since I haven't been on a big job or at a big contractor for awhile. I kinda do my own thing and lost track of politics.


----------



## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> At the risk of being a butinsky idealoge , you union folk do have a significant 100th aniversary
> 
> ~CS~


That's nuts.


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

T&K said:


> I've seen that out of union work, and could add to that list, as I'm sure you can. As a matter of fact, when it comes to residential in this area, my stiffest competitors for high end residential is a union electrician using his employers contractors license (which includes the mandatory insurance policies) and then doing the job for $1000 less. Seems "scabbish" to me. In this area, in all of the union shops, there is usually only a few real electricians, and the rest couldn't tell you how a 3 way switch works.




T&K , When you refer to scabbish , you might be aware of the origin of the term .

Scab is used to describe a electrical job that is being done by workers that 
are not qualified . A " scab " is an ongoing wound that can not heal .



Pete


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

rewire said:


> I have no doubt that you would like the union view to be the only one expressed in this forum .Funny how you fear a view that is not lock step with the union propaganda that you are fed. HMMMMM makes me wonder.


Rewire do you do ressi , and small store ?

Just wondering what seems quite clear . You do not have a grasp on working on the large jobs . I really could not care for your opinion on Union , or lack of .

Did someone hurt your feelings little sparky . 



Pete


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

I'm so sick of the hoorah union crap.


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

AllWIRES said:


> I'm so sick of the hoorah union crap.




Working in Florida and you can speak like this ?

Figures . Have you worked elsewhere ? Experience is the mother of all teachers





Pete


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

I worked my way through the ranks (nonunion) in a state overrun by unions, NY. I've experienced quite a bit. I moved to Florida to grow my business and own my guns in a free state. And I hate snow!

And that comment is a prime example of how jumpy and jerky the organized are. Served my country as an electrician so I know real brotherhood and worked for all non union shops and got paid market rate for my skill sets. I don't need anyone else to make sure I'm getting paid. 

If you're organization was so great you wouldn't have to be so overbearing. 

I also find the buy American argument from the union guys to be very ironic as the unions have debatably run manufacturing out of the country. 

That being said I don't hate the unions. I just hate the attitude.

The trade was built on the unions and I'm thankful for that because I love this trade with every ounce of my body.


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

drumnut08 said:


> . Wait , didn't DHL go under ? I guess this helps explain why , lol ?


The dropped back down to just international. They were doing fine till they bought out Airborne went union then that's when all hell broke loose. We went from $13phr max to $26phr max. and about 60 people to about 950 people. They could not keep up with the added cost by adding local delivery with so many added workers at double the pay. Union would not renegotiate so they went to the courts and cut their services back down to international and courts allowed them to cut staff.


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

drumnut08 said:


> . Well , in fat daddy's defense , I've never actually had my local tell me to slow down , but I have had some totally useless slugs tell me to slow down , because I was making them look bad , lol ! That same crap happens in every local . There are the group of guys that actually do the work ( the contractor may keep them because of this ) , then there's the group of guys who have mastered the technique of looking busy without actually getting any real work done . These are the ones that are down the road again , and again , and again .


 Actually our steward and union rep as well as senior workers would tell us slow down. Not stop working but slow down so that the company would need more workers. How some of these workers could go any slower is beyond me.


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

Fatdaddy said:


> Actually our steward and union rep as well as senior workers would tell us slow down. Not stop working but slow down so that the company would need more workers. How some of these workers could go any slower is beyond me.


 yep ! An all too familiar scenario that I've seen over and over ! I was a shop guy for a company working a big job in a neighboring local . I witnessed more tail dragging , hiding , guys sneaking in late , hanging out on lifts up in the air . It was a very fast track job and it was known that if a certain milestone was not met , the contractor would be forced to implement overtime . The foot dragging was absolutely done on purpose , so these guys could rake in as much OT as possible !


----------



## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

drumnut08 said:


> yep ! An all too familiar scenario that I've seen over and over ! I was a shop guy for a company working a big job in a neighboring local . I witnessed more tail dragging , hiding , guys sneaking in late , hanging out on lifts up in the air . It was a very fast track job and it was known that if a certain milestone was not met , the contractor would be forced to implement overtime . The foot dragging was absolutely done on purpose , so these guys could rake in as much OT as possible !


. What a lot of these morons don't realize is that by purposely delaying a jobs completion , that may be one less contractor they'll ever be able to work for again !


----------



## Fatdaddy (Apr 15, 2014)

drumnut08 said:


> . What a lot of these morons don't realize is that by purposely delaying a jobs completion , that may be one less contractor they'll ever be able to work for again !


I agree. I will bust my ass to get a job done and done right and refuse to allow another bring me down with them. I use to deal with this in Local 1 I worked for a warehouse with a guy who was always "fittin to" do something but never did ****.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

pete87 said:


> T&K , When you refer to scabbish , you might be aware of the origin of the term .
> Scab is used to describe a electrical job that is being done by workers that
> are not qualified . A " scab " is an ongoing wound that can not heal .
> Pete


 Pete, please note:

A "scab" refers to one thing and one thing only- a replacement worker who crosses a sanctioned union picket line. Or in the case of a nonunion worksite, a replacement worker who crosses a picket line set up by the nonunion employees.

The word "scab" is thrown around WAY too much. 

"Scabby work" sounds more like unqualified employees or an un or under qualified employer forcing employees to perform to a standard they're not qualified for OR are ill-equipped for in terms of material, or time, or tools. 

I've worked on sites alongside nonunion workers and they're handicap is rarely, if ever, their inability or unwillingness to do quality work, it is that they're simply not EQUIPPED to do quality work. Be it lack of proper material or proper tools or time restrictions, or a combination thereof.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

IslandGuy said:


> Pete, please note:
> 
> A "scab" refers to one thing and one thing only- a replacement worker who crosses a sanctioned union picket line.


A picket line is nothing more than an extortion line, manned by common thugs and criminals.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

pete87 said:


> T&K , When you refer to scabbish , you might be aware of the origin of the term .
> 
> Scab is used to describe a electrical job that is being done by workers that
> the union deems are not qualified . A " scab " is an ongoing wound that can not heal .
> ...


FIFY:thumbsup:

In the non-union world, they're know as trunk-slammers.


----------



## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

AllWIRES said:


> I'm so sick of the hoorah union crap.


You might get it on a large job. Say 600 Wiremen working 7-12s with per diem. You start getting checks like that and it might change your point if view.


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Phatstax said:


> You might get it on a large job. Say 600 Wiremen working 7-12s with per diem. You start getting checks like that and it might change your point if view.


I make my own hours and rates. And Im sure not working 7-12s but the checks my clients cut me are nice. I like 3 day weekends and I certainly dont have to deal with 600 upity hallies for way to many hours. :bangin:

Putting away profits instead of paying dues to the corrupted feels much better. 

Prost :drink:


----------



## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

pete87 said:


> Rewire do you do ressi , and small store ?
> 
> Just wondering what seems quite clear . You do not have a grasp on working on the large jobs . I really could not care for your opinion on Union , or lack of .
> 
> ...


We run a service company got out of chasing GCs a few years back joined Clockwork Home Services the Mr Sparky owners.

I have been in this trade longer than you have been alive and ten years in the union. I have worked on large commercial ,Reform Nuke, JC state prison, and hundreds of other union projects the last one was the Bush stadium. So next time you address me sir better be the first word out of your mouth.

You can't hurt my feeling because I don't have any.


----------



## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

pete87 said:


> T&K , When you refer to scabbish , you might be aware of the origin of the term .
> 
> Scab is used to describe a electrical job that is being done by workers that
> are not qualified . A " scab " is an ongoing wound that can not heal .
> ...


Pete, 
What would be the term you would give to the guy who does a 4 day job for $1000 less than someone who pays all the insurance premiums, and business license fees, simply because they don't have those costs of doing business. Most of these same guys show up on the job sites with the company that they work for tools, ladders, and I've even seen one of them pulling the whole job site trailer. What would it be? If a non union contractor does even a small commercial job, the union guys love to throw around the term scab. Seems fitting that they get called the same. You can best believe if the tables were turned, and this was happening to the union guys, there would be more than just name calling. I'm anxiously waiting your reply.


----------



## T&K (Jun 18, 2012)

pete87 said:


> T&K , When you refer to scabbish , you might be aware of the origin of the term .
> 
> Scab is used to describe a electrical job that is being done by workers that
> are not qualified . A " scab " is an ongoing wound that can not heal .
> ...


Would you like me to post you some pics? I would most certainly call them unqualified. Ever seen a 1300 square foot house with 30 junction boxes in it? All which, by the way, were screwed directly to the ceiling joists, buried beneath 6" of insulation by now. Unqualified scab?? For sure.


----------



## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

AllWIRES said:


> I make my own hours and rates. And Im sure not working 7-12s but the checks my clients cut me are nice. I like 3 day weekends and I certainly dont have to deal with 600 upity hallies for way to many hours. :bangin:
> 
> Putting away profits instead of paying dues to the corrupted feels much better.
> 
> Prost :drink:


Very nice. Not sure what your situation is, but seems to work for you. Congrats!


----------



## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

rewire said:


> We run a service company got out of chasing GCs a few years back joined Clockwork Home Services the Mr Sparky owners.
> 
> I have been in this trade longer than you have been alive and ten years in the union. I have worked on large commercial ,Reform Nuke, JC state prison, and hundreds of other union projects the last one was the Bush stadium. So next time you address me sir better be the first word out of your mouth.
> 
> You can't hurt my feeling because I don't have any.


Very nice response, sir. You speak like you have been working around a lot of guys I work around. BTW-I do have feelings, but I keep them in my wallet!


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Phatstax said:


> Very nice. Not sure what your situation is, but seems to work for you. Congrats!


Getting up at 0530 and getting home around 2300 isn't all that glorious all the time.


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

IslandGuy said:


> Pete, please note:
> 
> A "scab" refers to one thing and one thing only- a replacement worker who crosses a sanctioned union picket line. Or in the case of a nonunion worksite, a replacement worker who crosses a picket line set up by the nonunion employees.
> 
> ...




Be it all true . I was given the " dose not heal " in the very early 70's, by a respected brother , and have stuck with it . 

I never disrespect any tradesman . Union or nonunion .




Pete


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

T&K said:


> Pete,
> What would be the term you would give to the guy who does a 4 day job for $1000 less than someone who pays all the insurance premiums, and business license fees, simply because they don't have those costs of doing business. Most of these same guys show up on the job sites with the company that they work for tools, ladders, and I've even seen one of them pulling the whole job site trailer. What would it be? If a non union contractor does even a small commercial job, the union guys love to throw around the term scab. Seems fitting that they get called the same. You can best believe if the tables were turned, and this was happening to the union guys, there would be more than just name calling. I'm anxiously waiting your reply.




Made your point T&K . Just reacting to the all the cheap shots on the I.B.E.W. yesterday . 



Pete


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

> Served my country as an electrician so I know real brotherhood and worked for all non union shops and got paid market rate for my skill sets. I don't need anyone else to make sure I'm getting paid.


The market rate for non union electricians in my area is $21 to $25 an hour with no benefits or very little benefits. The union rate is $30 an hour plus healthcare and retirement benefits.

So are you saying that you would rather work for less money(not considering you own a business now, but as an employee) because the "market rate" set your pay instead of going out and getting the most money that you can?

I do not understand electricians or anybody who says to themselves I am not worth x amount of dollars so i will take less money. 

If a non union shop would pay me more money than what I made in the union I would go work non union but I have never seen a non union shop advertise that they pay above union scale in my area.


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

AllWIRES said:


> The trade was built on the unions and I'm thankful for that because I love this trade with every ounce of my body.





ALLWIRES , I can agree with that .





Pete


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

rewire said:


> We run a service company got out of chasing GCs a few years back joined Clockwork Home Services the Mr Sparky owners.
> 
> I have been in this trade longer than you have been alive and ten years in the union. I have worked on large commercial ,Reform Nuke, JC state prison, and hundreds of other union projects the last one was the Bush stadium. So next time you address me sir better be the first word out of your mouth.
> 
> You can't hurt my feeling because I don't have any.




REWIRE , Thanks for the response . I would not wait for a "Sir" .
Not going to happen .




Pete


----------



## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

pete87 said:


> rewire , thanks for the response . "sir" .
> 
> 
> Pete


fify


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

rewire said:


> fify



Here comes john'y ,with his pecker in his hand , he 's a one ball man and he's off to the rodeo , fu*kin jerk,

You know that song rewire ?




Pete


----------



## ProdigalSon (Feb 10, 2011)

skeeter34 said:


> I currently work for a merit shop, and strongly considering going union. I got the job pretty quickly after 8 yrs in the Marine Corps. I don't like the direction my company is going and have been doing a lot of research on switching to the IBEW. It seems like a great idea. Just looking for any advice you can give me thanks.


The benefits I enjoy as a member of Local 103 in Boston make my membership in the IBEW worth it. 

The union isn't for everybody. Some people can deal with the BS, and some can't. I know that when I'm laid off -as long as I am willing and able to work- I will still recieve my health benefits free of charge. I will retire at age 58 and my insurance will cover whatever Medicare won't. The benefits make it worthwhile to me. Mind you that not all locals have the benefits that mine does; but I CAN tell you that I have worked on BOTH sides of the fence and safety is a FAR bigger priority on the union side. I'm not saying that open shops don't care at all, but it's been my experience that union shops tend to have better safety protocols. 

Good luck with your decision...

PS: Just remember that you can always leave the union, but you can't always get in. I don't know if that will help you in your decision making, but ponder that for a second if you will.


----------



## Nobaddaysinak (Jan 17, 2012)

Go union. Great training great pay. Do your five years as a journeyman and you got 2k/mo in your pension and be fully vested then do whatever you want at that time not before you even start


----------

