# SE cable.. Long Island style..



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

You put the clips in at the edge of the siding, I heard someone say that is a rookie mistake. :blink:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Maybe Sch 80 would look a bit nicer or some "U" guard.

Tom

Functional but kind of messy IMO No offense. I don't put up pics either..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Customer happy with it?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> You put the clips in at the edge of the siding, I heard someone say that is a rookie mistake. :blink:



What goes around, comes around. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

FWIW, that looks absolutely atrocious.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> You put the clips in at the edge of the siding, I heard someone say that is a rookie mistake. :blink:


That is vinyl.. not going to split like wood shakes.. there IS a different..

Nice try.. but no cigar for you.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

davis9 said:


> Maybe Sch 80 would look a bit nicer or some "U" guard.
> 
> Tom
> 
> Functional but kind of messy IMO No offense. I don't put up pics either..


"U" guard??? :blink::laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

That is awful

Why not just use PVC?


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> "U" guard??? :blink::laughing:


Look nicer than that mess...

Tom


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> FWIW, that looks absolutely atrocious.


And why is that.. besides you still having your panties in a knot over the lesson in strap placement on wood siding.. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> That is vinyl.. not going to split like wood shakes.. there IS a different..



Yeah, it is different, it has squashed the vinyl and looks like poopy. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> That is awful
> 
> Why not just use PVC?


It was easier and faster with EMT.. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> And why is that.. besides you still having your panties in a knot over the lesson in strap placement on wood siding.. :laughing:


Let's see, how about a piece of 1" EMT going down at an angle into an SEU sill place with silicone globbed all over it. It looks like handyman work.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, it is different, it has squashed the vinyl and looks like poopy. :laughing:


Lets see.. vinyl siding baking in the sun and we hit 95 degrees today.. that might explain why it looks "squashed"


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I don't want to get yelled at for being mean so I will just ignore this thread and rip on jlarsons work, he has thick skin. :thumbsup::laughing::thumbup:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Wow, I haven't done it that way since 98' . That brings back the memories, my employers truck with no AC or CD player. Thank god for evolution.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Let's see, how about a piece of 1" EMT going down at an angle into an SEU sill place with silicone globbed all over it. It looks like handyman work.


It won't leak water into the basement panel.. I met my objective.. the siding guy has a 2" long hole around the old SE.. 

I don't expect to hear anything good from you.. but it is funny to watch you spinning looking for something derogatory..


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Drywall screws for meter mounting ? Drywall screws for all other mounts too ??? It must have been a low budget job.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

You're not required to bond the emt sleeve?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Drywall screws for meter mounting ? Drywall screws for all other mounts too ??? It must have been a low budget job.


Deck screws.. they won't rust or snap


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> You're not required to bond the emt sleeve?


No.. they are not anal about that here..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> It won't leak water into the basement panel.. I met my objective.. the siding guy has a 2" long hole around the old SE..
> 
> I don't expect to hear anything good from you.. but it is funny to watch you spinning looking for something derogatory..


Once again, if you can't handle the criticism, don't post pics of your work on a public forum. :thumbsup: 

I stand by what I said. It looks like DIY work.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jefft110 said:


> You're not required to bond the emt sleeve?


No, they (poco) and local inspectors do not require bonding of the upper sleeve, but do require a MIGB and bonding link for the lower sleeve.

Yo B, they'll violate you, you need a MIGB and #8 green jumper on the bottom sleeve.

2nd violation is a POCO requirement of at least one strap on the load side of meter sleeve.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jefft110 said:


> You're not required to bond the emt sleeve?





B4T said:


> No.. they are not anal about that here..


The NEC does not require it if the sections are short. 



> 250.86 Other Conductor Enclosures and Raceways.
> 
> Exception No. 2: Short sections of metal enclosures or
> raceways used to provide support or protection of cable
> ...


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> Deck screws.. they won't rust or snap


I can't bring myself to use them, I'm still #10 x 3 panheads for 100 amp, 1/4 x 3 lags for meterpans and 150 amp and up services.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> No, they (poco) and local inspectors do not require bonding of the upper sleeve, but do require a MIGB and bonding link for the lower sleeve.
> 
> Yo B, they'll violate you, you need a MIGB and #8 green jumper on the bottom sleeve.


I have never bonded the lower sleeve and never got it violated..

Only time I ever used a BB was on underground riser before we switched over to PVC..


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

Thats the way i remember it:thumbsup:






















I'm going back to my old self... No one is perfect and if I do not have anything nice to say I won't say nothing at all. I bashed someone the other day on this site (the boy scout) and it did not sit well with me. At first I thought it was funny but now realize it is not. peace


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I can't bring myself to use them, I'm still #10 x 3 panheads for 100 amp, 1/4 x 3 lags for meterpans and 150 amp and up services.


Why not.. they hold 2X6 decking in place that is exposed to the weather.. no rust..

Panhead screws will rust.. leaving brown streaks on the vinyl siding..

Who wants that?? :blink::blink:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> Panhead screws will rust..


Get stainless ones :yes:

I use deck screws all the time to though, especially the ceramic coated ones from HD


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> I have never bonded the lower sleeve and never got it violated..
> 
> Only time I ever used a BB was on underground riser before we switched over to PVC..


The last times, about ten years or more ago that i used that method, LIPA was big on enforcing the MIGB , and lower strap. The only times lately I've used metal it's been RMC in the fifth wing or upon customer request so a MIGB is standard.


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## kevmanTA (Jul 20, 2010)

I wish I was in the states, we're still stuck with PVC underground and steel masts...


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

That is one ugly ass service. I'm asking my boss for a raise tomorrow.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Get stainless ones :yes:
> 
> I use deck screws all the time to though, especially the ceramic coated ones from HD


Right.. so they keep falling off the magnet tip..:no:

What is wrong with deck screws???:blink::blink:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I will say this, between BBQ's SE thread, Larson's offset thread, and this one, I am learning a ton of new chit lately. :blink:

-John


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> Right.. so they keep falling off the magnet tip..:no:
> 
> What is wrong with deck screws???:blink::blink:


Lags with a 3/8 adaptor and 7/16" socket on the impact gun. Built ford tuff. Them screws look hackish.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Right.. so they keep falling off the magnet tip..:no:


Oh my god ........... you just can't make tis chit up/:laughing:



> What is wrong with deck screws???:blink::blink:


Nothing wrong with them for assembling wood to wood, I keep many different sizes in the truck.

But even the biggest size deck screws are to thin (IMO) for this kind of use, I try to use hardware that almost fills the hole in the enclosures or straps. 1/4" lags for meter sockets, 3/8" lags for CT cabinet and strut.

To each their own.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> Right.. so they keep falling off the magnet tip..


Toss a wrap of tape around them to hold it to the driver if you need to.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> I will say this, between BBQ's SE thread, Larson's offset thread, and this one, I am learning a ton of new chit lately. :blink:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

We at the dark side (me and bbq, lol) recommend not learning from B4T, unless you need to learn about pagers.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I will keep using hardware that doesn't rust.. and it holds the electrical parts just fine..

Keep using your lag bolts and impact driver..good luck with that.. :laughing:


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## kevmanTA (Jul 20, 2010)

Now, do you pre twist wires or let marrettes... Sorry... Wire nuts do their job?

:whistling2:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> We at the dark side (me and bbq, lol) recommend not learning from B4T, unless you need to learn about pagers.


:no:

Be careful skinning wire with that knife of yours.. not that I am wishing harm on you..:whistling2::laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> Be careful skinning wire with that knife of yours.. not that I am wishing harm on you..:whistling2::laughing:


:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I will keep using hardware that doesn't rust.. and it holds the electrical parts just fine..


Yes, it holds great today, looks pissa. It will not stand up as well as bigger hardware will over time.

Don't even bother trying to argue that point, it is a fact. 



> Keep using your lag bolts and impact driver..good luck with that.. :laughing:



Rat a tat tat and its done, no problem.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I'd be hard pressed to waste my time with lags and an impact on any part of that install, it's just a 100 amp can and some straps. That all would have gotten some SS #10 hex heads from me.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

I put up some SE cable Western Mass style today. I put my first disconnect/reconnect under my belt, it felt good.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> I put up some SE cable Western Mass style today. I put my first disconnect/reconnect under my belt, it felt good.


Did you use lag bolts and impact gun to secure the se cable.. :whistling2::laughing:


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Did you use lag bolts and impact gun to secure the se cable.. :whistling2::laughing:


Lags? No.

I willed it into place with my superior being and it's being held there by my sheer awesomeness.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Did you use lag bolts and impact gun to secure the se cable.. :whistling2::laughing:


No one said to use lags for SE cable, that is all you. :laughing:


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

You do know they make clear and grey colored caulk right? 

It looks like a kid got a jar of paste and globbed it on:laughing:

And ditto on the whole thing looking like a$$:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> No one said to use lags for SE cable, that is all you. :laughing:


That is all we are going to hear about next time someone puts up similar pics.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> You do know they make clear and grey colored caulk right?
> 
> It looks like a kid got a jar of paste and globbed it on:laughing:
> 
> And ditto on the whole thing looking like a$$:thumbsup:


You know they make caulk that comes out white and cures clear?

Nevermind, he used white. Post 55.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> Did you use lag bolts and impact gun to secure the se cable.. :whistling2::laughing:


It could be worse, an ex employer of mine sent me to perform a 200 amp rope service once, with a truck without a screw hardware bin. He had me take 10 penny nails from the carpenter to mount the entire service. It was about as ugly as it gets.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> You do know they make clear and grey colored caulk right?
> 
> It looks like a kid got a jar of paste and globbed it on:laughing:
> 
> And ditto on the whole thing looking like a$$:thumbsup:


I had to make sure the compression connector and sill plate was covered to keep water out..

You just can't put a thin bead on and call it a day.. :no:

I stock white 100% silcone rubber caulk.. not different colors like a paint store..

You have to build up the silicone around the WT connector so it sheds off..


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> I had to make sure the compression connector and sill plate was covered to keep water out..
> 
> You just can't put a thin bead on and call it a day.. :no:
> 
> ...


No monkey snot ?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I stock white 100% silcone rubber caulk.. not different colors like a paint store.


Yeah, a tube of white, a tube of clear ........... just a suggestion.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> It could be worse, an ex employer of mine sent me to perform a 200 amp rope service once, with a truck without a screw hardware bin. He had me take 10 penny nails from the carpenter to mount the entire service. It was about as ugly as it gets.


How about all the services that are held up with roofing nails.. that was the SOP back in the 70's.. :no:

I have taken many meter pans off the siding that were held with 1x10 pan head screws.. they weren't laying on the ground waiting for me..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I
> I stock white 100% silcone rubber caulk.. not different colors like a paint store..
> 
> You have to build up the silicone around the WT connector so it sheds off..


At least you use silicone. :thumbsup: But is it that hard to use clear silicone? Not that it would make it look any better. :no: :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, a tube of white, a tube of clear ........... just a suggestion.


I agree with that.. clear would of been a better choice..:thumbsup:


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

B4T said:


> I had to make sure the compression connector and sill plate was covered to keep water out..
> 
> You just can't put a thin bead on and call it a day.. :no:
> 
> ...


So clear silicone caulk won't allow you to do that?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> No monkey snot ?


Duct seal? 

I equate duct seal on the WT connector and sill plate with hack work.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> At least you use silicone. :thumbsup: But is it that hard to use clear silicone? Not that it would make it look any better. :no: :laughing:


I once tried latex silcone.. that stuff is crap and just another name for duct seal..


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> How about all the services that are held up with roofing nails.. that was the SOP back in the 70's.. :no:
> 
> I have taken many meter pans off the siding that were held with 1x10 pan head screws.. they weren't laying on the ground waiting for me..


 Or the sider services. The guys who rehang the service and sometimes mast with strips of aluminum roofing nailed to the sheathing. They have made me good money when the mast falls and everything is on the ground.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Duct seal?
> 
> I equate duct seal on the WT connector and sill plate with hack work.


I'll put a layer of clear silicone around the WT connector, let it set up and then apply the duct seal. The Journeyman I worked with today coated all the duct seal in silicone. 

What's that rank?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I agree with that.. clear would of been a better choice..:thumbsup:



I have to keep at least that and I am supposed to use 'food grade' stuff in the supermarkets.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> I'll put a layer of clear silicone around the WT connector, let it set up and then apply the duct seal. The Journeyman I worked with today coated all the duct seal in silicone.
> 
> What's that rank?


Definitely hack. If you're using silicone, there's no need to bother with duct seal at all. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> I'll put a layer of clear silicone around the WT connector, let it set up and then apply the duct seal. The Journeyman I worked with today coated all the duct seal in silicone.
> 
> What's that rank?


What do you think the duct seal is going to do??:blink::blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I have to keep at least that and I am supposed to use 'food grade' stuff in the supermarkets.


I never heard of "food grade" stuff must be pricey..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> What do you think the duct seal is going to do??:blink::blink:


You use the duct seal to make the water shed to the sides of the connector like you did with the silicone.

If the people paint it all afterward the duct seal will be better than your globs of silicone because you can't paint pure silicone.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Definitely hack. If you're using silicone, there's no need to bother with duct seal at all. :no:


:thumbup:



B4T said:


> What do you think the duct seal is going to do??:blink::blink:


It offers aesthetic value by maintaining a similar appearance to every other existing and future installation in this area.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I still remember the old SE install procedure. snap a level line from head to sill. strip 3' Se into weatherhead. hang head. shove 3' SE inside sill hole, sleeve and mount meter pan. Cut upper half SE, sleeve and wire into pan . Strap and tie in. wire panel and install rod(s) and/or water meter ground. I once did a 150 upgrade myself in 1 1/2 hours. Left the shop at 12;30 to the supply house, got back to the shop at 4:15, early.


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Duct seal is used 90% of the time in my experience I see it all over. I don't see anything hack about it.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I would have used Dynaflex 230, http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=14&SubcatID=3 

Paintable, latex, easier to clean up then silicone.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I never heard of "food grade" stuff must be pricey..


I guessing it is, I just ask the purchaser to get it, I don't see pricing. The real problem is remembering to have it when I need it instead of swinging into HD at the last minute.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> Duct seal is used 90% of the time in my experience I see it all over. I don't see anything hack about it.


It starts out as a good sealant. If it's exposed to sun, which it is most of the time with a service, it dries out and becomes useless and you start having water infiltration problems. At least in my experience. My service panel (on my refrigerator box :jester: ) was ruined due to dried out duct seal.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> Duct seal is used 90% of the time in my experience I see it all over. I don't see anything hack about it.


It was how I was taught since I started and the guy was over the top anal about how nice I had to put it on.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> It starts out as a good sealant. If it's exposed to sun, which it is most of the time with a service, it dries out and becomes useless


I think the intention was that the meter socket, the connector the duct seal and the cable itself would all be covered in a heavy coat of lead paint and last at least as long as the paint and or cloth cable.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lovethetrade said:


> Duct seal is used 90% of the time in my experience I see it all over. I don't see anything hack about it.


Are you serious?? :blink::blink:

The stuff dries out and shrinks.. a guarantee that water will wick around the WT connector and follow the conductors into the panel if in the basement..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I think the intention was that the meter socket, the connector the duct seal and the cable itself would all be covered in a heavy coat of lead paint and last at least as long as the paint and or cloth cable.


True, it seems like old services I encounter that are covered with layer upon layer of lead paint have a long lifespan. :laughing:


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Thought I saw somewhere in another post that there is a rubber boot that you can slip over the hub connector??? Yes? If so, silicone under the boot, slip 'er down, wipe up any resulting schmear, and Bada-bing! Just my .02:whistling2:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Are you serious?? :blink::blink:
> 
> The stuff dries out and shrinks.. a guarantee that water will wick around the WT connector and follow the conductors into the panel if in the basement..


:furious: I hate that I have to agree with you. :furious:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> True, it seems like old services I encounter that are covered with layer upon layer of lead paint have a long lifespan. :laughing:


The meter socket covered so thick you can't open it without a crow bar.:thumbsup:


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Peter D said:


> It starts out as a good sealant. If it's exposed to sun, which it is most of the time with a service, it dries out and becomes useless and you start having water infiltration problems. At least in my experience. My service panel (on my refrigerator box :jester: ) was ruined due to dried out duct seal.


Yes it does dry out but that's after years and years. You have to maintain it just like anything else. And lots of guys don't know how to put it on right they roll out a piece of spaghetti and think that's thick enough. You need to put the right amount on that way if it does crack it doesn't penetrate all the way through.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Are you serious?? :blink::blink:
> 
> The stuff dries out and shrinks.. a guarantee that water will wick around the WT connector and follow the conductors into the panel if in the basement..


I won't call duct seal hack, back in the day it is what they had.

Now I think we have better products, I would have used just a little silicone, to me what you have there is overkill. Just my opinion.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I won't call duct seal hack, back in the day it is what they had.
> 
> Now I think we have better products, I would have used just a little silicone, to me what you have there is overkill. Just my opinion.


Nah, I think a big glob of silicone goes great with that abortion. :laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I think the intention was that the meter socket, the connector the duct seal and the cable itself would all be covered in a heavy coat of lead paint...


 Don't forget to de-rate the cable after you paint it.... :whistling2:

-John


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I won't call duct seal hack, back in the day it is what they had.
> 
> Now I think we have better products, I would have used just a little silicone, to me what you have there is overkill. Just my opinion.


From past experience.. you have to put it on thick so it "moves" with the temperature.. I work it in around the connector to make sure it sticks to the SE cable.. no leaks.. 

Put it on too thin and it will pull away from either the SE cable or WT connector.. I have seen this happen more than once..

You can have over a 100 degree swing during the year.. more if SS of the house..

IMO looks has to take a back seat to a water leak..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Nah, I think a big glob of silicone goes great with that abortion. :laughing:


:sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> IMO looks has to take a back seat to a water leak..


Seems that looks took a seat on the very back of the bus on this one huh?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> :sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


Why didn't you do that to everyone else who said it looked terrible?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Maybe there is some middle ground between using a little well placed sealant and taking a handful of it and just tossing it in the right direction. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Why didn't you do that to everyone else who said it looked terrible?


Because YOU get special treatment.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Maybe there is some middle ground between using a little well placed sealant and taking a handful of it and just tossing it in the right direction. :laughing:


I should of used clear.. I won't make that mistake again.. :no:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

What's that little bracket called where the SE enters the house, and is it some sort of local code?

Lot's of SE in the south and I never once saw one of those used, it was always just a straight penetration. Those brackets might look a little cleaner, but I really don't understand the function, they look like they would funnel water right into the hole.

-John


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Big John said:


> What's that little bracket called where the SE enters the house, and is it some sort of local code?


John, you're in Boston and you don't know what that is? :blink: It's called a sill plate around here.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Seems that looks took a seat on the very back of the bus on this one huh?


Other than the white silcone.. what else don't you like?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Speaking of sill plates.. has anyone come across PVC sill plates..

Some guys beat the metal one over the PVC with a hammer..


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> John, you're in Boston and you don't know what that is? :blink: It's called a sill plate around here.


 They've got them up here, but I've never done a resi. service here and god willing, I never will.

-John


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Big John said:


> They've got them up here, but I've never done a resi. service here and god willing, I never will.
> 
> -John


Why, is resi. work beneath you?


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> Other than the white silcone.. what else don't you like?


Being from an area with no services in SE cable I may not know what is typical. In my opinion I think the conduit on the bottom looks bad, if you don't have a bender that big for an off set you could have used schedule 80 and a meter offset. It looks like the SE coming out of the top pipe goes off to the left crooked. The screws in the back of the meter are sheetrock screws with no washers, I'm surprised that they didn't pull right through the holes. The meters I use a sheetrock head will pass right through those holes. If you have to waste so much time protecting the se anyway why not just go to PVC and XHHW?


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

I predict.............. 9 pages about duct seal and silicone:laughing:


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

lovethetrade said:


> I predict.............. 9 pages about duct seal and silicone:laughing:


I like spray foam.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Why, is resi. work beneath you?


Yeah, they bitch every time I put 6" PVC coated rigid on their house. :laughing:

-John


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Being from an area with no services in SE cable I may not know what is typical. In my opinion I think the conduit on the bottom looks bad, if you don't have a bender that big for an off set you could have used schedule 80 and a meter offset. It looks like the SE coming out of the top pipe goes off to the left crooked. The screws in the back of the meter are sheetrock screws with no washers, I'm surprised that they didn't pull right through the holes. The meters I use a sheetrock head will pass right through those holes. If you have to waste so much time protecting the se anyway why not just go to PVC and XHHW?


Those are deck screws and won't pull through the MP.. some MP have oversized holes.. this one did not..

The bend where the sill plate is was most important to me.. if I bent the offset for MP.. I might not of been able to make the bend for the sill plate.. really short piece of EMT..

The SE cable fits under a down spout.. if I used pipe for the whole thing.. the down spout would of needed to be relocated.. it was easier using SE cable and I use mostly PVC and THHN for service risers..

The pipe is straight.. camera angle throws it off


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Ok, well it's still really ugly. You can't possibly step back and think it looks good.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't know how well EMT holds up outdoors on Long Island, but as you're not that far from me it can't hold up any better than it does in New England. So I guarantee that will start rusting out in a few short years.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Seriously, what's up with these damn sill plates? Why don't they exist south of the Mason-Dixon line?

-John


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I don't know how well EMT holds up outdoors on Long Island, but as you're not that far from me it can't hold up any better than it does in New England. So I guarantee that will start rusting out in a few short years.


It is being painted to match the siding..


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Big John said:


> Seriously, what's up with these damn sill plates? Why don't they exist south of the Mason-Dixon line?
> 
> -John


What the hell is a sill plate?


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> What the hell is a sill plate?


 Exactly! Apparently that thing on the bottom of the SE cable is a sill plate.

-John


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Big John said:


> Exactly! Apparently that thing on the bottom of the SE cable is a sill plate.
> 
> -John


Never used them or seen them used I use LBs


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

It is a plate, it goes on the sill, it is a sill plate are you guys really electricians? :laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> :furious: I hate that I have to agree with you. :furious:


:laughing::laughing:same here:laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> :laughing::laughing:same here:laughing:


It's ok Harry. If you agree with me, the world won't suddenly end. :thumbsup:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

BBQ said:


> It is a plate, it goes on the sill, it is a sill plate are you guys really electricians? :laughing:


I know what a sill plate is in construction terms in framing but never personally used those or seen them in all the places I've done work.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

'Lectric in the south was a simple affair. Damn Yankees and yer fancy newfangled gadgets. Sill plate my ass.

-John


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

lovethetrade said:


> I know what a sill plate is in construction terms in framing but never personally used those or seen them in all the places I've done work.


I am just kidding, I have no idea if they are used outside of this area.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Speaking of sill plates.. has anyone come across PVC sill plates..
> 
> Some guys beat the metal one over the PVC with a hammer..



Yes there called LB's:thumbup:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I don't get the whole silicone thing. 

Why don't you simply run the pipe into the connector?

What am I missing?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes there called LB's:thumbup:


They make PVC sill plates. They're from Arlington, I believe.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I don't get the whole silicone thing.
> 
> Why don't you simply run the pipe into the connector?
> 
> What am I missing?



Look at the top end of the pipe.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

We just did a service with SE on the load side of the meter. We used schedule 80 PVC to guard against physical damage to the cable. The inspectors breaking my balls about not being able to see the words "schedule 80" on the conduit. Tmrw we show him the left over piece from the job and hope for the best.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Look at the top end of the pipe.


OK.


Seems like it would be better to seal it at the top of the pipe.. It would certainly look better.


SE service conductors = 





> The inspectors breaking my balls about not being able to see the words "schedule 80" on the conduit


I had the same issue on a 3 inch underground installation last month. O took a pic of the writing (backside of the riser) but that portion didn't say shed 80. You could look into the TA and clearly see it was 80 but I still had to jump thru some hoops and retrieve a piece I had cut off.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> It's ok Harry. If you agree with me, the world won't suddenly end. :thumbsup:





I hope not....:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> They make PVC sill plates. They're from Arlington, I believe.



Never seen one why not just use an LB..:blink:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> OK.
> 
> 
> Seems like it would be better to seal it at the top of the pipe.. It would certainly look better.


Seems to me that if you are going to run pipe 75% of the way anyway that you would just do it in pipe:thumbsup: ............. and I like SE.


----------



## pjmurph2002 (Sep 18, 2009)

what kind of fitting is that on the load side, entering the house? never saw them before.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

pjmurph2002 said:


> what kind of fitting is that on the load side, entering the house? never saw them before.


 LMAO. Vindication! :thumbup:

EDIT: They say it's a "sill plate." I say they're full of it. You decide!

-John


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


> OK.
> 
> 
> Seems like it would be better to seal it at the top of the pipe.. It would certainly look better.
> ...




worst thing about tomorrow is A) this Yankees game just started 3.5 hours late, and B) I have to meet the EI at 7am.


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I've never done an SE cable riser as they are just weird here. I will however do one eventually. I' saving that one up for an inspector who I don't like so I can give him a heart attack once I'm finally sick of arguing with him.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> They say it's a "sill plate." I say they're full of it. You decide!




:thumbup:


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> I had to change a MP and service cable today.. it was the old cloth type and coming apart..
> 
> We have to use a bypass meter pan for any service and the meter pan is rated for 100 - 200 amp.
> 
> ...



I think you could do better with PVC and aluminum conductors instead of whatever that is. What's with the caulk mess? You could do better.


----------



## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

MF Dagger said:


> I've never done an SE cable riser as they are just weird here. I will however do one eventually. I' saving that one up for an inspector who I don't like so I can give him a heart attack once I'm finally sick of arguing with him.


I'm saving it for the last job I do before I retire.:laughing:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Never seen one why not just use an LB..:blink:


 
I've never seen them either but I always thought it would be a good idea. With an LB you have to jamb the cable(s) around the corner. This thing looks like it just slips over and covers the cable bend.


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Big John said:


> Seriously, what's up with these damn sill plates? Why don't they exist south of the Mason-Dixon line?
> 
> -John


They used to about 50 years ago. Go into any supply house now and you can't even draw a picture of one and make them understand what you are talking about.


----------



## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Little-Lectric said:


> They used to about 50 years ago. Go into any supply house now and you can't even draw a picture of one and make them understand what you are talking about.


That's what I thought.

I was going to post that in 22 years I've seen one or two on services that were done in the 50's and 60's, but I was questioning my memory.


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

*BBQ-Stop Laughing*



Little-Lectric said:


> They used to about 50 years ago. Go into any supply house now and you can't even draw a picture of one and make them understand what you are talking about.


BBQ, stop laughing and post the link to the sill plate. You posted it once before. I forgot who the supplier was but you had the link.


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

jefft110 said:


> That's what I thought.
> 
> I was going to post that in 22 years I've seen one or two on services that were done in the 50's and 60's, but I was questioning my memory.


I had to replace and old SE cable with SER a while back and tried to find a sill plate but no such luck.


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

In my old house it had a sill timber, 8x8 I think, used a small chainsaw to install a dryer vent.


----------



## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> The inspectors breaking my balls about not being able to see the words "schedule 80" on the conduit.


Now that's BS from that inspector!


----------



## eutecticalloy (Dec 12, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Thank god for evolution.


Isn't that statement oxymoronic, or did you mean that on purpose?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MF Dagger said:


> Being from an area with no services in SE cable I may not know what is typical. In my opinion I think the conduit on the bottom looks bad, if you don't have a bender that big for an off set you could have used schedule 80 and a meter offset. It looks like the SE coming out of the top pipe goes off to the left crooked. The screws in the back of the meter are sheetrock screws with no washers, I'm surprised that they didn't pull right through the holes. The meters I use a sheetrock head will pass right through those holes. If you have to waste so much time protecting the se anyway why not just go to PVC and XHHW?


I used to make offsets with, 1", thru 1 1/2 " on local trees for the bottom 1/2 . I always hated the straight run since it would open the centrifugal KO on the meterpan and look like sh1t.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

BBQ said:


> It is a plate, it goes on the sill, it is a sill plate are you guys really electricians? :laughing:


 One of those sill plates bought me a full house rewire job .........when the electrician, a competitor that " will beat any written estimate by 5%" left his new 200 amp service with a 3" drywall screw pinched into the SE cable at point of entry. I exclusively use LBs w/ a female adapter and SE conn. on the inside when SE is used as the tail piece.


----------



## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

Little-Lectric said:


> BBQ, stop laughing and post the link to the sill plate. You posted it once before. I forgot who the supplier was but you had the link.


You're probably joking, and I'm missing the joke, but
plenty of people make them, and you can order them
at any reasonable supply house or online. E.g. go
to the third page:

http://www.arlcatalog.com/Mast/Langford_F.pdf

Maybe BBQ had a better one, I dunno.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

eutecticalloy said:


> Isn't that statement oxymoronic, or did you mean that on purpose?


Life is better doing services in PVC and leaving the job in an AC'd truck often listening to CDs.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Roger123 said:


> Now that's BS from that inspector!


All better, job passed this morning.


----------



## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> All better, job passed this morning.


Good!


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

BBQ said:


> It is a plate, it goes on the sill, it is a sill plate are you guys really electricians? :laughing:


The framing component to which you refer is actually a rim joist. The "sill" in framing parlance is the lumber plate that the rim joist (and all of that platform's joists) rests upon.


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

B4-T 

We can't use that SE installation here, so I can't even comment on the fittings used. The caulking is obvious, but you knew that.

We have to use Rigid conduit into a hub. Here's a photo of a two meter service riser, I installed many moons ago. They hid my beautiful service with the hedge.

That SE is code, but I like the cleaner look of Rigid for overhead.

Sill plate ? I've never seen one either. Looks good for that cable though.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

The only two meters I see are parking meters.:laughing:


(BTW, nice...you have to pay to park in front of your own house. Gotta love it)


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

CraigV said:


> The only two meters I see are parking meters.:laughing:
> 
> 
> (BTW, nice...you have to pay to park in front of your own house. Gotta love it)


 
Your right, I was showing the riser :laughing: 

Yeah Laguna Beach is notorious for raising funds, by parking meters, and $42.00 tickets !

Can be a real pain to park for jobs that are close to the beach. .25 cents per 15 min.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

dronai said:


> Can be a real pain to park for jobs that are close to the beach. .25 cents per 15 min.


Pass it on to the customer. Do they make you move the vehicle after say three hours max? That's how most places around here do it...they mark your tire with the time on the clock when they pass by. Brutal.


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

CraigV said:


> Pass it on to the customer. Do they make you move the vehicle after say three hours max? That's how most places around here do it...they mark your tire with the time on the clock when they pass by. Brutal.


 
Pass it on to the customer you say-
If this is any indication of cheapness, I was at the city pulling permits with my customer.

I took him, because he paid for the permit, and the city bus. lic. ! He watched me dump quarters in the meter, and didn't offer :blink:

Yeah they chaulk the tires here too after a few hours.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

dronai said:


> B4-T
> 
> We can't use that SE installation here, so I can't even comment on the fittings used. The caulking is obvious, but you knew that.
> 
> ...




Well, yeah, for overhead you're gonna need the rigid otherwise what are you going to use to support SE? :whistling2:

Through the roofs can be a pita sometimes.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> You could do better.


You're right.. I could of.. :thumbsup:

The rest of the 100 amp. service is fuses with (2) sup panels connected to it..

It is 1950's style and I was just trying to get the service cable water tight..

A service upgrade is not far away.. but not in the budget of this HO at this time..


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> You're right.. I could of.. :thumbsup:
> 
> The rest of the 100 amp. service is fuses with (2) sup panels connected to it..
> 
> ...


I've been known to run 2" sch. 80 on situations like that and use only #4s until they are ready.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Duct seal?
> 
> I equate duct seal on the WT connector and sill plate with hack work.


I have never used caulk for a service. Duct seal all day.....


----------



## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

That is pure, unmitigated, feces. It ranks right up there with the finest work by our "Border Brothers."


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

ibuzzard said:


> That is pure, unmitigated, ****e. It ranks right up there with the finest work by our "Border Brothers."


Thanks for stopping by.. now get out!!! :laughing:


----------



## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

Big John said:


> What's that little bracket called where the SE enters the house, and is it some sort of local code?
> 
> Lot's of SE in the south and I never once saw one of those used, it was always just a straight penetration. Those brackets might look a little cleaner, but I really don't understand the function, they look like they would funnel water right into the hole.
> 
> -John





Peter D said:


> John, you're in Boston and you don't know what that is? :blink: It's called a sill plate around here.


Every time someone says sill plate I think of sill plate (video don't want to embed and cause the site a problem:thumbsup 

FWIW B4T, I like you and all that, but if that was on my house, I would be wondering what the guy was drinking that installed it.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

*SILL PLATES*


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> *SILL PLATES*



Interesting. I have never seen those before. We don't use them around here I can tell you that much.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> *SILL PLATES*


Those are designed for just the cable.. we use ones designed for conduit..1/2" - 2"...


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Those are designed for just the cable.. we use ones designed for conduit..1/2" - 2"...


There is no such thing as a conduit sill plate, I bet you are using an SER plate for pipe.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> There is no such thing as a conduit sill plate, I bet you are using an SER plate for pipe.


Yes there are.. 1" - 2' are perfectly round and fit snug over EMT.. 

The 1/2" inch also is used for 3/4" EMT..

Look at the link Pete posted.. there is a difference.. :thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Interesting. I have never seen those before. We don't use them around here I can tell you that much.


I don't use them either. But that is what they are called here.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Yes there are.. 1" - 2' are perfectly round and fit snug over EMT..
> 
> The 1/2" inch also is used for 3/4" EMT..
> 
> Look at the link Pete posted.. there is a difference.. :thumbsup:


The link Pete posted says they are only for SE not conduit.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Yes there are.. 1" - 2' are perfectly round and fit snug over EMT..
> 
> The 1/2" inch also is used for 3/4" EMT..
> 
> Look at the link Pete posted.. there is a difference.. :thumbsup:


Those are for SER. SER is round.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

B4T said:


> ]


This isn't really any better than a plain old sec service.

It's still a garbage install.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> This isn't really any better than a plain old sec service.



They just have silly rules on Long Island about exposed cable, so they have to protect it. Still, there are better ways to accomplish it than that. :blink:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Those are for SER. SER is round.


This manufacture calls them "conduit sill plates".. 

http://halexco.com/products.cfm?siteSection=consumer&product_subgroup=csp&product_group=SE


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> This manufacture calls them "conduit sill plates"..
> 
> http://halexco.com/products.cfm?siteSection=consumer&product_subgroup=csp&product_group=SE


OK, that is some crazy ass crap but you taught me something.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

They are dual rated..

Application: Outdoors Only. With two screws. In conjunction with sealing compound, *use to protect EMT or service entrance cable *and cover the hole where it enters the dwelling. Sill plates prevent water from entering a structure. Features: With Screws and duct Seal.


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> OK, that is some crazy ass crap but you taught me something.



Uh oh..........the end must truly be near.....


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> They just have silly rules on Long Island about exposed cable, so they have to protect it. Still, there are better ways to accomplish it than that. :blink:


Using a sill plate is a great way to keep water out and cover the caulking that is needed to plug the hole..


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> They are dual rated..
> 
> Application: Outdoors Only. With two screws. In conjunction with sealing compound, *use to protect EMT or service entrance cable *and cover the hole where it enters the dwelling. Sill plates prevent water from entering a structure. Features: With Screws and duct Seal.


 I just don't see how those sill plates (when used upside down as in your pic) are any more effective at keeping out water than simply caulking or duct sealing over the hole in the wall. If anything it looks as if the sill plate in your pic will act as a cup and hold water if any water ever can manage to find it's way through the caulking inside it.

It only seems like they are good for dressing it out and making it look a tad bit neater.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Using a sill plate is a great way to keep water out and cover the caulking that is needed to plug the hole..



I'm an SE cable guy myself but if I was forced to protect it like that I would just use all PVC on the bottom side with an LB. Your method looks like stir fried poo. :yes:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Using a sill plate is a great way to keep water out and cover the caulking that is needed to plug the hole..


If you are running pipe an LB is a great way to keep water out.

What you have would never pass here, you have no supports on the conduit, no fittings to protect the SE. 

Plus is looks ugleir then a monkeys butt.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> There is no such thing as a conduit sill plate, I bet you are using an SER plate for pipe.



I find it hard to believe but here are some Emt sill plates ,Who Knew..:laughing:

https://www.capitaltristate.com/web...10151&storeId=12201&productId=82020&langId=-1


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

OK.. what good would a strap on the lower conduit sleeve do??

It is fastened to the meter pan and fastened to the sill plate.. 

Saying a strap is needed is just nit-picking BS.. :no:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> OK.. what good would a strap on the lower conduit sleeve do??


It is required by code.



> Saying a strap is needed is just nit-picking BS.


Whatever you say .........


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> If you are running pipe an LB is a great way to keep water out.
> 
> What you have would never pass here, you have no supports on the conduit, no fittings to protect the SE.
> 
> Plus is looks ugleir then a monkeys butt.


It is what the SOP here is.. the way you guys run SE cable above and below the MP exposed would never pass here..


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It is required by code.


And if there is a local amendment passed then all is good.. and nothing changed.. so what is the big deal..:no:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> It is what the SOP here is.. the way you guys run SE cable above and below the MP exposed would never pass here..


That's not the point of what anybody is telling you. We are saying there are better ways to protect the SE cable without it looking like a DIY hack job.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> That's not the point of what anybody is telling you. We are saying there are better ways to protect the SE cable without it looking like a DIY hack job.


What ever you say Pete..


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> What ever you say Pete..


It's not just me. Practically everyone who replied to this thread agrees.

Do your next one in PVC and then post pics. I'm sure you'll get a totally different response.


----------



## eutecticalloy (Dec 12, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Your method looks like stir fried poo. :yes:


Perhaps a dookie fried steak?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> It is what the SOP here is.. the way you guys run SE cable above and below the MP exposed would never pass here..


If I had to protect that much of it, I like 99% of the rest here would just run pipe all the way and be done with it.

But to each their own.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Do your next one in PVC and then post pics. I'm sure you'll get a totally different response.


Now that is something i would like to see you do..:laughing::laughing:


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

steelersman said:


> I just don't see how those sill plates (when used upside down as in your pic) are any more effective at keeping out water than simply caulking or duct sealing over the hole in the wall. If anything it looks as if the sill plate in your pic will act as a cup and hold water if any water ever can manage to find it's way through the caulking inside it.
> 
> It only seems like they are good for dressing it out and making it look a tad bit neater.


Actually the way he's got it installed is right side up. The large opening is the top and the weep hole is on the bottom.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It's not just me. Practically everyone who replied to this thread agrees.
> 
> Do your next one in PVC and then post pics. I'm sure you'll get a totally different response.


I do most of my services in PVC.. only the tail is SE cable..

Also I posted earlier this was a _repair_... you never install the same size cable you took down on a (50) year old electrical system..

The HO was in his 80's and the money for a 200a service was better spent someplace else..

Also in the basement.. the fuse panel with sub panels sat on top of a 4" cast iron waste line.. no way would even a modern 100a panel to fit in that space..

I would of use all PVC if this was the final product.. just a quick fix to keep the water out of the basement fuse box..

The original MP lugs were rusted in place.. only reason why it got changed..

I'm really surprised none of you noticed the missing ground rod..


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I'm really surprised none of you noticed the missing ground rod..



The rest of the train wreck distracted us.:yes:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> Actually the way he's got it installed is right side up. The large opening is the top and the weep hole is on the bottom.


The weep hole on the bottom is more for the #6 exiting the house for the ground rod..

I caulk under the SE cable and all around the hole.. enough so when I screw the sill plate down excess caulk oozes out from all the places water will try to get in..

BBQ was right about the clear caulk.. it would of changed the whole picture.. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Now that is something i would like to see you do..:laughing::laughing:


Shocking. Another stupid comment from Harry.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I would of use all PVC if this was the final product.. just a quick fix to keep the water out of the basement fuse box..


I still say you could have done it nicer with PVC for the same cost as EMT parts, even if it was only a repair. And we all know "repairs" sometimes end up being permanent, especially for someone on a tight budget like this customer apparently is.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Shocking. Another stupid comment from Harry.


Come on pete cant you have any fun...


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> The weep hole on the bottom is more for the #6 exiting the house for the ground rod..


If it's vinyl siding, I'll sneak the #6 behind it and sleeve it in 1/2" PVC. I used the term "weep hole" because I didn't want to confuse and already confused man.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Come on pete cant you have any fun...


Don't worry, my EMT pics are coming next week. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Don't worry, my EMT pics are coming next week. :thumbsup:


Good man...:thumbup::thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I still say you could have done it nicer with PVC for the same cost as EMT parts, even if it was only a repair. And we all know "repairs" sometimes end up being permanent, especially for someone on a tight budget like this customer apparently is.


Pete.. again.. it was a quick repair.. the next owner will have to upgrade the whole electrical system and only thing being reused will be the meter pan..

No AC units in the house.. no room to add any circuits either..

It is what it is.. a quick repair to keep it safe and water tight.. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

thegoldenboy said:


> If it's vinyl siding, I'll sneak the #6 behind it and sleeve it in 1/2" PVC. I used the term "weep hole" because I didn't want to confuse and already confused man.



Around here some of the oldtimer inspectors look to see if you punched out the weep hole so that water will not sit in the meter socket.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Around here some of the oldtimer inspectors look to see if you punched out the weep hole so that water will not sit in the meter socket.


We're talking about the sill plate Harry, not the meter pan itself. On any of our installs we caulk the top and the sides and leave the bottom open so any moisture that does build up behind the can has somewhere to drain, and then of course there are the holes in the actual enclosure itself.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> If it's vinyl siding, I'll sneak the #6 behind it and sleeve it in 1/2" PVC. I used the term "weep hole" because I didn't want to confuse and already confused man.


And who is the "confused man".. do tell..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Around here some of the oldtimer inspectors look to see if you punched out the weep hole so that water will not sit in the meter socket.


Weep hole? That's a hole for the grounding electrode conductor. :blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Around here some of the oldtimer inspectors look to see if you punched out the weep hole so that water will not sit in the meter socket.


There should be NO water weeping into the meter pan.. if there is.. you didn't seal it properly.. and most likely used duct seal as the only sealant.. :no:


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> And who is the "confused man".. do tell..


The person who I originally quoted stating that you installed it upside down...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Weep hole? That's a hole for the grounding electrode conductor. :blink:


We can't use the small lug in the meter pan for the ground rod.. only for bonding bushing when needed..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> We can't use the small lug in the meter pan for the ground rod.. only for bonding bushing when needed..


Is that a poco spec?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Is that a poco spec?


Yes.. and a really stupid one..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Weep hole? That's a hole for the grounding electrode conductor. :blink:



No not IMO again we were always told by the older Electrical inspectors to punch it out for that perpose//The new guys don't look for it:thumbsup:


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Around here we have to bring our ground rods and water pipe to the main, not the meter. Unless the main is in the meter. That small lug comes in handy for the 5th jaw.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> No not IMO again we were always told by the older Electrical inspectors to punch it out for that perpose//The new guys don't look for it:thumbsup:


That is the wackiest thing I have ever heard. And yes, it's for the GEC.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Yes.. and a really stupid one..


I agree. And you know how much I love agreeing with you. :icon_wink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Weep hole? That's a hole for the grounding electrode conductor. :blink:


Ever since the ground rod requirment went into the NEC we have been using the 1/2' Ko in the bottom of the meter socket for the ground either in 1/2' EMT or PVC..


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> Actually the way he's got it installed is right side up. The large opening is the top and the weep hole is on the bottom.



Oh ok. Well I really just don't see the point in those things other than for looks.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> Around here we have to bring our ground rods and water pipe to the main, not the meter. Unless the main is in the meter. That small lug comes in handy for the 5th jaw.


And your a Massachusetts guy.. there must be different rules in different towns.. :no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> That is the wackiest thing I have ever heard. And yes, it's for the GEC.



Trust me that will not fly around here..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I agree. And you know how much I love agreeing with you. :icon_wink:


Trust me.. it hurts me more than it hurts you...


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Ever since the ground rod requirment went into the NEC we have been using the 1/2' Ko in the bottom of the meter socket for the ground either in 1/2' EMT or PVC..


Which is fine. There is nothing wrong with using the 1/4" hole either.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> And your a Massachusetts guy.. there must be different rules in different towns.. :no:


Yes, that is true. Hence I said "around here". I think that is specifically for my city though as we have our own POCO. A couple of other surrounding towns have their own and everything else is WMECO (Western Mass Electric Company) which is a division of NU (Northeast Utilities). Different strokes for different folks.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> Around here we have to bring our ground rods and water pipe to the main, not the meter. Unless the main is in the meter. That small lug comes in handy for the 5th jaw.



Same here.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

I was under the impression that this was not a do it yourselfers forum.?.? This service looks absolutely terrible. schedule 80 , would look infinately better. This doesn't even resemble a 1/2 assed looking se cable job. probably shoulda thrown a flex 90 on the botton instead of your sil plate just for that overall hack job look..... just saying


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

NacBooster29 said:


> I was under the impression that this was not a do it yourselfers forum.?.? This service looks absolutely terrible. schedule 80 , would look infinately better. This doesn't even resemble a 1/2 assed looking se cable job. probably shoulda thrown a flex 90 on the botton instead of your sil plate just for that overall hack job look..... just saying


I see you are new here.. try reading the thread before throwing your $.02 in.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> Yes, that is true. Hence I said "around here". I think that is specifically for my city though as we have our own POCO. A couple of other surrounding towns have their own and everything else is WMECO (Western Mass Electric Company) which is a division of NU (Northeast Utilities). Different strokes for different folks.


NSTAR which serves the greater Boston area has now merged with Northeast Utilities as well.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> I was under the impression that this was not a do it yourselfers forum.?.? This service looks absolutely terrible. schedule 80 , would look infinately better. This doesn't even resemble a 1/2 assed looking se cable job. probably shoulda thrown a flex 90 on the botton instead of your sil plate just for that overall hack job look..... just saying


Who left the door open?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Nevermind.. a thread thats 12 pages long.. theres no point.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> NSTAR which serves the greater Boston area has now merged with Northeast Utilities as well.


Yes, I've heard about that. My buddy who is also a former co-worker, up and left our company for a gig at WMECO and the day after his initial hire they finalized the deal with NSTAR.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Nevermind.. a thread thats 12 pages long.. theres no point.



No, please do. Because then we can drag it out another 10 pages or so. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> No not IMO again we were always told by the older Electrical inspectors to punch it out for that perpose


Apparently they were morons.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Peter D said:


> No, please do. Because then we can drag it out another 10 pages or so. :laughing:


ok...



At this point [looking at OPs pic] Using cable is borderline stupid. Why not just pipe and wire?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Nevermind.. a thread thats 12 pages long.. theres no point.


It's only 5 pages long...:laughing:

You can set your account to 50 posts per page for thermonuclear threads like this one..:whistling2::laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Nevermind.. a thread thats 12 pages long.. theres no point.


Sure there is.. you get to tell me what a hack job it is and what you would of done different..

Make sure you ignore my posts about it just being a quick repair to keep it safe and water tight..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Trust me that will not fly around here..


Strange, it does for us.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

B4T said:


> Sure there is.. you get to tell me what a hack job it is and what you would of done different..
> 
> Make sure you ignore my posts about it just being a quick repair to keep it safe and water tight..


On a 12 page thread... I ignore a lot of stuff.... :thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> It's only 5 pages long...:laughing:
> 
> You can set your account to 50 posts per page for thermonuclear threads like this one..:whistling2::laughing:


I am in utter shock that Harry spelled "thermonuclear" correctly!:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> ok...
> 
> 
> 
> At this point [looking at OPs pic] Using cable is borderline stupid. Why not just pipe and wire?


I answered that question many times already.. read the thread and it will set you free..


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

B4T said:


> I answered that question many times already.. read the thread and it will set you free..


Its alright, I dont care to know that bad. Like I said - I initially thought I was commenting on a 1 page thread.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Trust me.. it hurts me more than it hurts you...


And just why is that?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Trust me that will not fly around here..


That makes no sense at all.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Apparently they were morons.


The choice is punch it out of fight with them.

Considering that it is a simple request why bother fighting with them.

I strongly perfer the 5 minute Electrical inspection versuses the long draged out open every outlet and box type inspection and having to waite all day for the inspector to show up.

Regardless if you guys run your ECG through the weep hole all the power to ya...:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The choice is punch it out of fight with them.
> 
> Considering that it is a simple request why bother fighting with them.
> 
> ...


Of all the made up codes I've heard in my life, that definitely makes the Top 5 Dumbest. :blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The choice is punch it out of fight with them.


But how is water getting into the meter pan to begin with.. :blink::blink:

The inspector should be ranting about that instead of _letting the water drain out_ :no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

steelersman said:


> I am in utter shock that Harry spelled "thermonuclear" correctly!:laughing:



Thank you professor..:laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> But how is water getting into the meter pan to begin with.. :blink::blink:
> 
> The inspector should be ranting about that instead of _letting the water drain out_ :no:


I agree. :furious:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> But how is water getting into the meter pan to begin with.. :blink::blink:
> 
> The inspector should be ranting about that instead of _letting the water drain out_ :no:



IDK i allways use pipe anyhow but that goes way back any ways.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

B4T said:


> But how is water getting into the meter pan to begin with....


 About 90% of the stuff I install is in a damp or wet location. It is very hard to keep water out of things, short of just sealing everything in potting compound, water will eventually find a way in.

Much easier to design stuff that is arranged to drain out what little bit of water does get in, so it can't accumulate and corrode things.

-John


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Peter D said:


> It's not just me. Practically everyone who replied to this thread agrees.
> 
> Do your next one in PVC and then post pics. I'm sure you'll get a totally different response.


In defense of local practices, but not of that mess, that is how it is done on LI. This particular case is pretty messy, but the sentiment is there. 

B4T, I don't care if it was a repair job, you could have done a nicer job. You COULD have bent an offset on that lower drop, thrown a strap on it and made it look MUCH nicer. If you are working on LI doing resi work and do not have a 1" bender I feel sad for you. 



I have a very bold statement to make. Say what you want, but I TRULY feel B4T secretly LOVES the attention he gets from threads like this. Why else would someone post pics like this?? :detective:
He loves the attention. He loves the arguments. He loves the exposure.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> I have a very bold statement to make. Say what you want, but I TRULY feel B4T secretly LOVES the attention he gets from threads like this. Why else would someone post pics like this?? :detective:
> He loves the attention. He loves the arguments. He loves the exposure.


The term is attention whore.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> In defense of local practices, but not of that mess, that is how it is done on LI. This particular case is pretty messy, but the sentiment is there.


You mean using EMT instead of PVC to sleeve the cable?  



> I have a very bold statement to make. Say what you want, but I TRULY feel B4T secretly LOVES the attention he gets from threads like this. Why else would someone post pics like this?? :detective:
> He loves the attention. He loves the arguments. He loves the exposure.


Of course he does. I'll take it one step further and say that he fakes being mad when people criticize him.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Big John said:


> About 90% of the stuff I install is in a damp or wet location. It is very hard to keep water out of things, short of just sealing everything in potting compound, water will eventually find a way in.
> 
> Much easier to design stuff that is arranged to drain out what little bit of water does get in, so it can't accumulate and corrode things.
> 
> -John


I use plenty of glue on PVC fittings to keep water from weeping into the conduit..

Brush plumbing pipe dope on the threads of male adapter screwing into the hub top of meter pan..

Put duct seal in the PVC head to keep the bees out and water from entering during a wind swept rain storm..

Run a bead of caulking along top and sides of meter pan to keep water from entering through screw holes..

There is no other way for water to get into the electrical service..


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

dont worry B4T it doesnt look that bad. at least the customer was happy and it wont leak. personally i would of just used SE and a regular sillplate.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> I have a very bold statement to make. Say what you want, but I TRULY feel B4T secretly LOVES the attention he gets from threads like this. Why else would someone post pics like this?? :detective:
> He loves the attention. He loves the arguments. He loves the exposure.


Well you are completely off your rocker if you think I enjoy being called a hack and the rest of the BS that comes along with it..

I don't like attention like that and for you to say such a thing means you have no clue what I am about.. :no::no::no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Well you are completely off your rocker if you think I enjoy being called a hack and the rest of the BS that comes along with it..
> 
> I don't like attention like that and for you to say such a thing means you have no clue what I am about.. :no::no::no:


What a lie. You wouldn't post pics if you didn't like the attention. You have to take the good with the bad if you're going to post pics of your work. So you obviously get some thrill out of doing it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

My main reason for posting those pics was the bypass meter pan and SE protection conduit top and bottom of MP..

And I have a 1" bender.. that is how I made the kick where the sill plate goes..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> What a lie. You wouldn't post pics if you didn't like the attention. You have to take the good with the bad if you're going to post pics of your work. So you obviously get some thrill out of doing it.


Why is that a lie?????

I am telling you like it is.. whether you believe it or not is your problem.. not mine..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Why is that a lie?????
> 
> I am telling you like it is.. whether you believe it or not is your problem.. not mine..


Speedy was 100% right. You like the attention. Just admit it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I use plenty of glue on PVC fittings to keep water from weeping into the conduit..
> 
> Brush plumbing pipe dope on the threads of male adapter screwing into the hub top of meter pan..
> 
> ...



Water will get in, it always does.

Arrange to drain and move on.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Water will get in, it always does.
> 
> Arrange to drain and move on.


Not on my services. I always use a pressurized air system on my cable and meter sockets, the same that the cable and phone company uses on their lines. :jester:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> The inspector should be ranting about that instead of _letting the water drain out_ :no:


Meter cans are NEMA 3R, that means water can get in and the enclosure is designed to drain.

You want water proof you need to move up to at least NEMA 4


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Water will get in, it always does.
> 
> Arrange to drain and move on.


I have pulled plenty of meters with no sign of corrosion on any of the lugs..

There is always white residue on the CU when it happens and rust on the lug threads..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Meter cans are NEMA 3R, that means water cab get in and the enclosure is designed to drain.
> 
> You want water proof you need to move up to at least NEMA 4


I agree, I just object to the idea of punching out the GEC knockout for a weep hole.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Water will get in, it always does.
> 
> Arrange to drain and move on.


That is what the weep hole is for..:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> That is what the weep hole is for..:laughing:


Oh Harry.....:no:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> That is what the weep hole is for..:laughing:


Yes Harry that is what the weep holes are for and when they make the weep holes at the factory they do not seal them, shut with a KO.

The weep holes in a meter socket are the holes in the back two corners, the 1/4" KO is put there for a GEC, not a weep hole.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I have pulled plenty of meters with no sign of corrosion on any of the lugs.


Yes, that does not mean they have not gotten wet.



> There is always white residue on the CU when it happens and rust on the lug threads..


False


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> False


I go by what I have seen.. you see it differently.. as always.. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Yes Harry that is what the weep holes are for and when they make the weep holes at the factory they do not seal them, shut with a KO.
> 
> The weep holes in a meter socket are the holes in the back two corners, the 1/4" KO is put there for a GEC, not a weep hole.


That is fine i will give $100 if you can find any 60,100,or 200 amp service inside the 128 belt that was inspected by the inspector of wires where the 1/4 KO was used for the GEC not in any type of pipe or flex going to the ground rods..:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

:laughing::laughing:


Peter D said:


> Oh Harry.....:no:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

**removed**


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

OK, this has gone far enough. 

As a mod I maybe should not have made the comments I did, but I was making them as myself, not a mod. I was just calling things as I saw them based on history. 

To B4T and anyone else thinking about posting pics of your work. It had better be pretty damn nice work!! Else you WILL get ripped by the masses here. Sorry, it's just how many of our peers are.


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