# Put on 2 year list due to interview.



## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2018)

Did well on test but not so much on interview mostly due to no experience. Now working for electrical company as CW. 

Letter said can reinterview in 2 years. Is it possible to try again sooner or is the 2 years firm? 

Any advice? IBEW 915 in Tampa.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

This is stupid. Take a look at this and there shouldn't be any question as to why the union is shrinking and getting less and less support.

So here is what will happen to you. In another 2 years they'll re-interview you. Again you'll fail and work for another 2 years as a CW, being told to go back in another 2 years.

By the end of it you'll have 4 years into it, and you'll be very close to journeyman status as far as hours go, but not on the schooling part. 

Now here is when they let you in. See now you have 4 years experience and they don't want to have to pay your for it, so they will allow you into the program. You will however need to start all over at the bottom of the barrel as an apprentice, taking a pay cut. 

Don't worry though, because in another 5 years you will be a IBEW journeyman.

Now I realize this will not be every persons experience, but I bet you there will be a lot more of it going around now that the CE/CW program is in place.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Did well on test but not so much on interview mostly due to no experience. Now working for electrical company as CW.
> 
> Letter said can reinterview in 2 years. Is it possible to try again sooner or is the 2 years firm?
> 
> Any advice? IBEW 915 in Tampa.


So you're going to be working for an IBEW contractor correct?


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2018)

*IBEW contractor*

Yes, IBEW contractor


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2018)

*2 year wait*



Switched said:


> So you're going to be working for an IBEW contractor correct?


Yes, IBEW contractor.


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2018)

Switched said:


> This is stupid. Take a look at this and there shouldn't be any question as to why the union is shrinking and getting less and less support.
> 
> So here is what will happen to you. In another 2 years they'll re-interview you. Again you'll fail and work for another 2 years as a CW, being told to go back in another 2 years.
> 
> ...



So do you recommend starting education out of pocket at a local tech school?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> So do you recommend starting education out of pocket at a local tech school?


No, do not do it. 

The IBEW won't really count the education you get outside of them. I would however stick around here and learn all you can. Also, don't hesitate to get books, videos, and start to "Self Teach". 

Also, we have some IBEW contractors on here from your neck of the woods, so maybe they can be of more assistance. The IBEW is a large organization that differs greatly from one area to another, so best to speak with someone familiar with your local.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Switched said:


> Now here is when they let you in. See now you have 4 years experience and they don't want to have to pay your for it, so they will allow you into the program. You will however *need to start all over at the bottom of the barrel as an apprentice, taking a pay cut. *
> 
> Don't worry though, because in another 5 years you will be a IBEW journeyman.
> 
> Now I realize this will not be every persons experience, but I bet you there will be a lot more of it going around now that the CE/CW program is in place.



Not here you DO NOT take a pay cut you remain at your wage until your time as an apprentice catches up with your pay rate.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

brian john said:


> Not here you DO NOT take a pay cut you remain at your wage until your time as an apprentice catches up with your pay rate.


I've learned you're in one of the best locals out there though, one that is smart and truly planning for the future!:smile:


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

LMAO you can work as CW but not apprentice, what dou***bags that local is. if i was you i wouldn't want to work with them anyway, i would try to find a good non union company.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

brian john said:


> Not here you DO NOT take a pay cut you remain at your wage until your time as an apprentice catches up with your pay rate.


Same here.

No doubt the ce/ce program is abused, though.

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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> So do you recommend starting education out of pocket at a local tech school?





Switched said:


> No, do not do it.
> 
> The IBEW won't really count the education you get outside of them. I would however stick around here and learn all you can. Also, don't hesitate to get books, videos, and start to "Self Teach".
> 
> Also, we have some IBEW contractors on here from your neck of the woods, so maybe they can be of more assistance. The IBEW is a large organization that differs greatly from one area to another, so best to speak with someone familiar with your local.


I agree with Switched on this advise, but what I would do, book/video wise, is get really good with the NEC. Most of it you can watch for free on Youtube. 

Watch the Mike Holt videos and visit his website. You'll learn a lot and it'll be worth something in your career.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Did well on test but not so much on interview mostly due to no experience. Now working for electrical company as CW.
> 
> Letter said can reinterview in 2 years. Is it possible to try again sooner or is the 2 years firm?
> 
> Any advice? IBEW 915 in Tampa.


This happened to a friend of mine in my local. He took a summer course in blueprint reading and one in welding at the local community college. He took his transcripts in and applied for reinterview for the next cycle and got in then. In the interim, we got some of the interview questions and coached him through interviewing. I'll see if I still have them.


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## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

I still don’t understand the ce/cw program .

Are you indentured in the ibew ?
Do you get benifits annuity ,pension etc .

And do you go to school ?

After completion of the cw program 
Can you still become a jw?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Unionpride277 said:


> I still don’t understand the ce/cw program .
> 
> Are you indentured in the ibew ?
> Do you get benifits annuity ,pension etc .
> ...


In theory it is supposed to be a way to get non-union electricians into the union. They may not possess all the skills and education that the union deems necessary, so they come on in a position caught somewhere between an apprentice and a Journeyman. 

I think the idea behind it is to get them in, get them educated, and move them into full Inside Jman guys.

In practical application, it is a whole other beast. As an open shop, I see this as a way for the "Contractors" to compete with other open shops that may not pay as much in labor and benefits. (The wages for CE/CW and the benefits around here are substantially less than a respectable open shops pays).

For this reason, there becomes a sort of disinterest in "Moving" most of the CE/CW's along into full fledged status.

I am mostly ignorant of how exactly the program works. When we looked at becoming signatory they tried to sell us on "Cheap Union Labor". Wasn't much of a selling point, kind of a turn off actually. 

It'll be interesting to see where the experiment leads in 10 years.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Switched said:


> In theory it is supposed to be a way to get non-union electricians into the union. They may not possess all the skills and education that the union deems necessary, so they come on in a position caught somewhere between an apprentice and a Journeyman.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It will lead nowhere but a higher quality temp agency at best if all things stay the same. I'd love to see a CE/CW wobble.

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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Switched said:


> In theory it is supposed to be a way to get non-union electricians into the union. They may not possess all the skills and education that the union deems necessary, so they come on in a position caught somewhere between an apprentice and a Journeyman.
> 
> I think the idea behind it is to get them in, get them educated, and move them into full Inside Jman guys.
> 
> ...


I can give you an idea of where it is right now.
"Cheap labor" is a key phrase.

They load jobs up with CW/CE's, because they're "cheap".
They don't have any formal training, or schooling, but they have _some_ experience in the trade, how much varies. They're sort of the "laborer's" of the union. They are supposed to work with little, or no supervision, on remedial tasks. No termination's, or make-up unsupervised. Kinda like a built in "Ready Temp".

After so many hours they can test for the apprenticeship.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

joebanana said:


> I can give you an idea of where it is right now.
> "Cheap labor" is a key phrase.
> 
> They load jobs up with CW/CE's, because they're "cheap".
> ...


Down here many of them terminate, run big pipe, troubleshoot, and are basically similarly skilled just cheaper and job scared all the time. 

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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

The last time I looked at the CE/CW program on You Tube they interviewed the CE/CW the. company owners ,estimators,and the supervisors. All of them talked about how great the program was and everyone loved it. They never talked to any Joe Sixpack journeymen that where displaced by a CE/CW. Makes a man wonder.
LC


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wiresmith said:


> LMAO you can work as CW but not apprentice, what dou***bags that local is. if i was you i wouldn't want to work with them anyway, i would try to find a good non union company.


This approach favors the contractor and not the worker for sure.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> The last time I looked at the CE/CW program on You Tube they interviewed the CE/CW the. company owners ,estimators,and the supervisors. All of them talked about how great the program was and everyone loved it. They never talked to any Joe Sixpack journeymen that where displaced by a CE/CW. Makes a man wonder.
> LC


If you have a good local that manages their programs this CAN BE a local growing program that benefits all parties.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> Lone Crapshooter said:
> 
> 
> > The last time I looked at the CE/CW program on You Tube they interviewed the CE/CW the. company owners ,estimators,and the supervisors. All of them talked about how great the program was and everyone loved it. They never talked to any Joe Sixpack journeymen that where displaced by a CE/CW. Makes a man wonder.
> ...


Disagree with you on this one. Benefits the contractor only. 

How does this program benefit a journeyman or an apprentice?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

eddy current said:


> Disagree with you on this one. Benefits the contractor only.
> 
> How does this program benefit a journeyman or an apprentice?


This "Should" benefit a journeyman. I think ideally the program should bring in skilled labor, that may be lacking either certain skills and/or knowledge. Then they can give them the additional schooling and training necessary that they need to get on track. 

I doubt most guys seriously need to do a whole 4/5 year indentured program, that is a little over the top IMO. But I think that is they way they may be trying to run the program? IDK....


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The only reason I ever heard for the CE/CW program is to try to gain (or just keep) marketshare by giving the contractors cheaper labor for certain tasks. 

Our local hated it so when we were forced to adopt it we did it in a way that simply switched our "B" (resi and small works) program to be called CE/CW. 

As far as what I have understood about the CE/CW program across the country, I have never known it to be a faster track to "A" JW. If anything, the people who join the CE/CW program are often doomed to be stuck in it.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The only reason I ever heard for the CE/CW program is to try to gain (or just keep) marketshare by giving the contractors cheaper labor for certain tasks.
> 
> Our local hated it so when we were forced to adopt it we did it in a way that simply switched or "B" (resi and small works) program to be called CE/CW.
> 
> As far as what I have understood about the CE/CW program across the country, I have never known it to be a faster track to "A" JW. If anything, the people who join the CE/CW program are often doomed to be stuck in it.


I agree that it is going to suck for the very large majority of the guys who get into the program. 

It will help though to get another generation of workers hating the union. After being in the program and realizing they are never going to go anywhere, they will go back non-union where they will make more money and have better benefits.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> I agree that it is going to suck for the very large majority of the guys who get into the program.
> 
> It will help though to get another generation of workers hating the union. After being in the program and realizing they are never going to go anywhere, they will go back non-union where they will make more money and have better benefits.


I have purposely tried to stay out of this from the beginning because there is no answer one way or the other. It's a political/religious/pitbull/ground orientation discussion.

But the way I see it, the OP benefitted by being given a job doing something, a job associated with the union.

Before the CE/CW program, he would have been sent on his way without anything, and told to go get a non-union job. So I don't see it as being that bad that he was given a job in the field with an opportunity.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I have purposely tried to stay out of this from the beginning because there is no answer one way or the other. It's a political/religious/pitbull/ground orientation discussion.
> 
> But the way I see it, the OP benefitted by being given a job doing something, a job associated with the union.
> 
> Before the CE/CW program, he would have been sent on his way without anything, and told to go get a non-union job. So I don't see it as being that bad that he was given a job in the field with an opportunity.


That is just the problem though, it is both good and bad. It should be good, but we all know the program is and will continue to be abused.

Most locals, as some have stated, are not happy about the situation of being forced to do this, being forced to have a workforce that earns less and has the potential to take away jobs from guys who have gone through the program.

That is not a good thing.

If we read through the posts over the last few years on this subject, it is having the effect of creating a second class citizen within the union. 

That is not a good thing.

Contractors will exploit this to every degree possible and we know it. They will find every excuse they can to use the cheaper labor whenever possible, at the expense of guys who went through the program.

This is not a good thing.

When this whole thing came out, did they implement a specific program to educate and train them? Is it a written thing, like the apprenticeship?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Switched said:


> That is just the problem though, it is both good and bad. It should be good, but we all know the program is and will continue to be abused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In writing it's supposed to advance CE's. The problem with it being the red headed stepchild of the IBEW is that the membership is dismissive of it at best and resents it at worst. The CE's are unorganized dues paying members. My local does nothing to push these guys to move up. While I believe a man needs to take some initiative and responsibility for his future, our membership as a whole is committing collective suicide letting this growing segment of our union to grow but languish in limbo. I'd love to see stewards try to manage and push these guys to turn in their hours to receive their raises, or provide resources and strong encouragement for them to get their licenses. Even if there are pockets of this attitude, without the backing and support of the Local it's difficult to maintain the time and resources for any one person. 

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## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

How many years is the ce/cw program ?

Do they advance in pay each year?.

After they complete the program do they become a journeyman ce/jw?

In the cw/ program do they go to school ? After you max out as a cw do they put you in the (a) program


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eddy current said:


> Disagree with you on this one. Benefits the contractor only.
> 
> How does this program benefit a journeyman or an apprentice?


Our union has a different program but it has allowed us to bring open shop members and offer them a path to "A", which weakens open shops and strengthen the local.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Unionpride277 said:


> How many years is the ce/cw program ?
> 
> Do they advance in pay each year?.
> 
> ...


Our guys go to school (new helpers) or to upgrade courses ( mechanics wooed away from open shops)with a path to "A" if they qualify.


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