# I find 320.23A to be hard to understand



## Shawn23 (Jan 5, 2011)

In the 2008 code 320.23a , is that saying that if i run NM or romex in the attic it has to be protected? what does the 7ft statement mean?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

320 is talking about AC cable.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NM and romex is the same thing.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

william1978 said:


> 320 is talking about AC cable.


Art. 334.23 throws you back to Art. 320.23.

*334.23 In Accessible Attics.* The installation of cable in
accessible attics or roof spaces shall also comply with
320.23.

*320.23 In Accessible Attics. *Type AC cables in accessible
attics or roof spaces shall be installed as specified in
320.23(A) and (B).

*(A) Where Run Across the Top of Floor Joists.* Where
run across the top of floor joists, or within 2.1 m (7 ft) of
floor or floor joists across the face of rafters or studding, in
attics and roof spaces that are accessible, the cable shall be
protected by substantial guard strips that are at least as high
as the cable. Where this space is not accessible by permanent
stairs or ladders, protection shall only be required
within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the nearest edge of the scuttle hole or
attic entrance.

*(B) Cable Installed Parallel to Framing Members.*
Where the cable is installed parallel to the sides of rafters,
studs, or floor joists, neither guard strips nor running boards
shall be required, and the installation shall also comply
with 300.4(D).

What that Article is telling you is this; if the attic is accessible by the means of stairs, pull down ladder or other similar permanently installed means then you must install a running board that is at least the height of the cables along the entire length that is run along the top of the studs.

If there are no permanently installed means of access to the attic then you are NOT required to install running boards along the entire length of cables UNLESS those cables come within 6' of the access hole. What that means is that within a 6' radius of the access hole, any cables run along the top of the joists must be protected by running boards. 6' 1" and you're no longer required to do so.

If you take the time to drill the joists and run your cable through bored holes then Article 320.23 (A) does not apply and instead you're subject to Article 320.23 (B) which will bounce you to Article 300.4 (D). 

Any other questions or did I clear this up for you?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I drill holes in the joists unless there are trusses. When I have trusses I run boards up on the webbing above the insulation. If it has access or not I don't care, I wire as if it does. The whole point is to not damage the wire by walking on it.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

backstay said:


> I drill holes in the joists unless there are trusses. When I have trusses I run boards up on the webbing above the insulation. If it has access or not I don't care, I wire as if it does. The whole point is to not damage the wire by walking on it.


Absolutely. It is our job to protect the wire that we install to the best of our ability. The Code is a set of minimum standards, we can always do a better job... for a price.


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## Shawn23 (Jan 5, 2011)

Where do they mean by the 7ft statement? 

*or within 2.1 m (7 ft) of
floor* or floor joists across the face of rafters or studding, in
attics and roof spaces that are accessible, the cable shall be


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Basically if there are permanent stairs then you need to run a guard strip if you run the wires across the floor joist or roof rafters if the wires are within 7' of the floor joist. 

What they want is protection of the cables when you can stand and reach them in the attic (7'). If there are no permanent stairs then it only needs protection within 6' of the attic entrance. Not 6' high but rather 6' from the edge of the hole.


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## Shawn23 (Jan 5, 2011)

That makes more sense. I was thinking that I have passed a lot of inspections over the years and never a word about that.


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## DCAC (Feb 11, 2011)

Get the handbook. Theres pictures!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

The 7 ft part seems point blank to me. Where the grey area is, IMO, are pulldowns considered permanent steps? I say no. I think permanent steps means a real stair case, but not all inspectors think that


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

I consider permanent stairs or ladders to be anything that is permanently installed and can't be carried away like a step ladder, so as long as the pull down isn't going anywhere I would consider that to meet the requirements.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> I consider permanent stairs or ladders to be anything that is permanently installed and can't be carried away like a step ladder, so as long as the pull down isn't going anywhere I would consider that to meet the requirements.


A perfect example of what I disagree with. When the steps are folded up, they are not steps. They are a mass of wood with hinge points. Take a pulldown out of the pack, brand new, and throw it in the floor. Let me see you walk up them. You cannot. They are not stairs until they ate unfolded. Therefore, they ate not permanent stairs


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

But...but...but they're _permanently _affixed to the structure when they're installed.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

thegoldenboy said:


> But...but...but they're _permanently _affixed to the structure when they're installed.


 

You permanently installed a mass of wood with hinge points. They are not stairs until they are extended into place. Therfore, they are not permanent stairs. They are part time stairs:laughing:


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You permanently installed a mass of wood with hinge points. They are not stairs until they are extended into place. Therfore, they are not permanent stairs. They are part time stairs:laughing:


But they're always there when you need them. :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I believe pull down stairs are generally not considered permanent stairs.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I believe pull down stairs are generally not considered permanent stairs.


I believe so too, but I've met inspectors that think the same as Goldenboy, and it's hard to argue against.


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