# Triplex conductors



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

OK as you guys know the POCO would not supply me with an additional drop for my garage project.

So i got them to approve running triplex from the 200 amp weather head on the house to the garage so i can hit an overhead mast hit a new meter socket for the 200amp service in the garage for the glass blowing shop.

Yup you read that right it just doesn't get any better:laughing:

Here is the question do i use table 310.17 to size that cable?

Looks like i can use #1 copper is, that right?

BTW doing it this way will save the customer about $4000 by not have to upgrade the 200amp service on the house:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Why aren't they running the triplex?

If it were me, I would size it exactly the way they do. I wouldn't make it any bigger than the incoming triplex, which is usually #2 AL for a 200 amp service. Copper triplex? Are you out of your mind?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I would size it the same as their's. It will be befor the meter and not covered by NEC.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Why aren't they running the triplex?
> 
> If it were me, I would size it exactly the way they do. I wouldn't make it any bigger than the incoming triplex, which is usually #2 AL for a 200 amp service. Copper triplex? Are you out of your mind?


The triplex there is already too small and this is on the property so i have to go between the house and the garage.



> Copper triplex? Are you out of your mind?


Yes your catching on.:blink:.:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

backstay said:


> I would size it the same as their's. It will be befor the meter and not covered by NEC.


They are going to upgrade their wire when they get around to it.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes your catching on.:blink:.:laughing:


Does the poco run copper triplex? I highly doubt it unless this is ocean front property. If not, then running CU to the new service is a complete waste.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> OK as you guys know the POCO would not supply me with an additional drop for my garage project.
> 
> So i got them to approve running triplex from the 200 amp weather head on the house to the garage so i can hit an overhead mast hit a new meter socket for the 200amp service in the garage for the glass blowing shop.
> 
> ...



I do not understand why the service on the garage/shop, can not be a totally independent service.

Here it is required.

Not only that, but the house is on one rate, and the business on a different rate. 

Maybe different rules apply, where you are.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> I would size it the same as their's. It will be befor the meter and not covered by NEC.


The meter has nothing to do with what the NEC covers.

The NEC covers back to the service point which is the connections at the weather head here in MA.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Here is the question do i use table 310.17 to size that cable?
> 
> Looks like i can use #1 copper is, that right?



Talk to the wire inspector, most triplex is not UL listed so you cannot use it for NEC covered applications.

If you can use it you can only size it as much as the terminals / connectors your are using so you will likely stuck with 75C and the new version of 310.16.

Even if you could size it per the free air rules voltage drop could be an issue.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

A few questions I have here:

1) Which poco?

2) Why wouldn't they approve another service?

3) Why did you need their permission to use triplex overhead, since as Bob pointed out it's under the NEC after the service point? Or are they considering that triplex to be theirs with 2 service points? :confused1:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Does the poco run copper triplex? I highly doubt it unless this is ocean front property. If not, then running CU to the new service is a complete waste.


I don't even know if they sell it in copper I'm going to use whatever is cheapest to keep the customer happy...:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> I don't even know if they sell it in copper I'm going to use whatever is cheapest to keep the customer happy...:thumbsup:


I'm sure you can get copper since the poco uses it. I know AL is readily available, CU...not so much. It might be hard to find.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> I do not understand why the service on the garage/shop, can not be a totally independent service.
> 
> Here it is required.
> 
> ...


This a poco rule that is on file with the DPU It is not in their rule book and it is a stupid rule IMO.

So you are right i do not under stand their logic.:blink::no:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> This a poco rule that is on file with the DPU It is not in their rule book and it is a stupid rule IMO.


The only reason I can guess would be to reduce the number of ugly drops in neighborhoods.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Talk to the wire inspector, most triplex is not UL listed so you cannot use it for NEC covered applications.
> 
> If you can use it you can only size it as much as the terminals / connectors your are using so you will likely stuck with 75C and the new version of 310.16.
> 
> Even if you could size it per the free air rules voltage drop could be an issue.


Yes i talked to the inspector and he is cool with.:thumbsup:

And he is laughing his ass of at the POCO that they would approve that but not a new drop.:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> A few questions I have here:
> 
> 1) Which poco?
> 
> ...


NSTAR.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> NSTAR.


Weird, I thought it might be NationalGrid or one of your many municipals.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> The only reason I can guess would be to reduce the number of ugly drops in neighborhoods.


that could be.

He could not come up with a good reason except it is their rule and they don't allow it,,when he said that i was ready to kill him and so was the Electrical inspector.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Weird, I thought it might be NationalGrid or one of your many municipals.


Never had any problems with them before.

This is a very rare type of install but it has been done and will be again just not on there territory


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The meter has nothing to do with what the NEC covers.
> 
> The NEC covers back to* the service point which is the connections at the weather head* here in MA.


Ok, which weather head? The house or garage? In this case I would say the service point for the garage is the weather head connection at the garage. Then the triplex from the house to the garage is not covered by the NEC.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I would try to either buy the wire from the POCO or look for a truck in the area and buy a piece from the men running the truck..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> Ok, which weather head? The house or garage? In this case I would say the service point for the garage is the weather head connection at the garage. Then the triplex from the house to the garage is not covered by the NEC.


The one the utility stops at which in this case would be at the house.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The one the utility stops at which in this case would be at the house.


I guess I'm confused. You said the connection point is the weather head, now it's where the utility stops their wires. So do you have to put a note on the overhead triplex from the house to the garage that says "not poco wires"? 10 years from now how will the next HO or the poco know who's wire is running to the connection at the weather head at the garage?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> OK as you guys know the POCO would not supply me with an additional drop for my garage project.
> 
> So i got them to approve running triplex from the 200 amp weather head on the house to the garage so i can hit an overhead mast hit a new meter socket for the 200amp service in the garage for the glass blowing shop.
> 
> ...


Will they be heating the glass by "electric" or gas? If they can afford that kind of an electric bill I wouldn't worry too much about what they can afford to put in.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> I guess I'm confused. You said the connection point is the weather head, now it's where the utility stops their wires. So do you have to put a note on the overhead triplex from the house to the garage that says "not poco wires"? 10 years from now how will the next HO or the poco know who's wire is running to the connection at the weather head at the garage?


You lost me.



> *Service Point.* The point of connection between the facilities
> of the serving utility and the premises wiring.


The part the power company installs would be "facilities of the serving utility" the part Harry installs is "premises wiring"

How does the HO know anything? They call in a pro.

How does the POCO know? They should know their rules, and where they stop.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

backstay said:


> Ok, which weather head? The house or garage? In this case I would say the service point for the garage is the weather head connection at the garage. Then the triplex from the house to the garage is not covered by the NEC.


The original service is on the house so to by pass the POCO rules i will run a triplex from the weather head on the house to the new mast on the garage.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

backstay said:


> I guess I'm confused. You said the connection point is the weather head, now it's where the utility stops their wires. So do you have to put a note on the overhead triplex from the house to the garage that says "not poco wires"? 10 years from now how will the next HO or the poco know who's wire is running to the connection at the weather head at the garage?


Yes it will plain as day.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The original service is on the house so to by pass the POCO rules i will run a triplex from the weather head on the house to the new mast on the garage.





> IV. Service-Entrance Conductors
> 230.40 Number of Service-Entrance Conductor Sets.
> Each service drop or lateral shall supply only one set of
> service-entrance conductors.




Good thing there is an exception that fits. :thumbsup:



> Exception No. 3: A single-family dwelling unit and a separate
> structure shall be permitted to have one set of serviceentrance
> conductors run to each from a single service drop
> or lateral.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Will they be heating the glass by "electric" or gas? If they can afford that kind of an electric bill I wouldn't worry too much about what they can afford to put in.


Yeah it is all Electric there is no gas on that street so i spoke to the HO and gave him a new price and got the green light.:thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Good thing there is an exception that fits. :thumbsup:


Oh yes i like that exception..:thumbup:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yeah it is all Electric there is no gas on that street so i spoke to the HO and gave him a new price and got the green light.:thumbup:


What does the utility charge for a kilowatt/hour in that neck of the woods.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

How about this? Build your overhead 200A at the garage with 18" SEC's hang'in out of the weather head, get inspection then let that poco run their triplex and upsize at the same time. 

That's the way it should go.:thumbsup:

Edit: Wait, i just re-read where you said "in order to bypass the poco's rule" you're gonna run the triplex. (the rule they can't produce! Go Harry the lineman.)


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

BBQ said:


> You lost me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now you're just talking in circles.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

backstay said:


> Now you're just talking in circles.


No, not at all.

I am giving you the code definition and what it means.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

3xdad said:


> How about this? Build your overhead 200A at the garage with 18" SEC's hang'in out of the weather head, get inspection then let that poco run their triplex and upsize at the same time.
> 
> That's the way it should go.:thumbsup:


The POCO is not going to do that .

So the set up that i told them will be done and inspected on Monday and the POCO will come out and install the meter.

Once the meter is in the nightmare will be over..:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> I would try to either buy the wire from the POCO or look for a truck in the area and buy a piece from the men running the truck..


That sounds good but i will price out the wire any way because you never know who to trust.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> That sounds good but i will price out the wire any way because you never know who to trust.


What are you doing about 310.11?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> What are you doing about 310.11?


Hold on i will look.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

In the 2011 code i see 310 .10 which goes on and on then goes to 310.15 unless it is a mass code but i dont see any thing in the mass code either


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