# F This I Quit



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Dateline, Dec 24, 2015

That was me on Christmas Eve. Get back to shop after the boss so graciously called everyone to come back an hour early. Paychecks up to and including that day were on hand. Open it up and no bonus, and the hours paid reflected the fact that we came back an hour early so, the "gift" was working one less hour and not getting paid for it.

I quit on the spot. Boss was stunned. "Why?"

Well... that would be a long list:

-You keep telling us no overtime yet present job orders that clearly call for overtime. You think we're gonna rush and work like whipped animals to meet your self imposed standards but nobody can change the laws of physics so you can increase your bottom line.

-Our Conex box was broken into and 3 people's personal tools were stolen. Not just the tools that we must have according to contract, but at least an equivalant amount of specialty tools you were supposed to provide but never did. When presented with receipts from the 3 victims you pretended you weren't responsible for anything not on the tool list. That all happened mid October, it's Christmas Eve, everyone is out 750.00-900.00 and you still haven't ponied up.

-In violation of our working agreement, you keep a company van loaded with material parked in another borough and tell employees to start their time there, drive through 2 boroughs on their own time and their own dime for tolls, pickup the van, do the work,and drop it off there and lock it up. 2 of your suckup shop rockets dutifully comply, the rest who won't you treat like bastard redheaded stepchildren and accuse them of being petty.

-You're trying to run a business without the assistance of any experienced project managers or expeditors. You hire imbeciles fresh out of college and surround yourself with them in violation of our working agreement and none of them can do a blasted thing without clearing it with you first.

-When material is needed you rummage through your 800 sq. ft. ****hole and send as much used and old demo'd crap you can dig up, and cobble together crap you THINK will work instead of exactly what was ordered, then bitch like a spoiled schoolgirl when the work cannot be done, and imply it's your journeyman's fault. 

- A minimum 25% of the work we're doing is done twice because you still haven't learned that "or approved equivilant" means you must get permission to use an alternate item BEFORE you just go ahead and do it and think you "saved" a few bucks supplying non approved materials.

-You think red, black, white, brown, purple, and orange and yellow are just pretty colors and nobody cares one way or the other because electricity doesn't have eyes.

-You get visibly agitated when your employees don't answer their cellphones, (because they've all learned to keep them in the cab of the truck because they're invariably dropped/smashed/broken when kept on your person while working) yet you feel absolutely no obligation to PAY for their cellphones or provide them each with the communication device you require them to have yet is not on the contracted tool list. When payment for using MY cellphone in the course of YOUR business was demanded, you pretended I was just a petty malcontent.

...But I digress, those, and about 100 other reasons were all there, all legitimate. But all I simply said was "Boss, you know why Cris, Moe, Rich, Devin, Ian, Mark, Kevin, and John left? That's why I'm leaving."

"You know you cannot quit according to the contract?"

"Oh are we BOTH going to follow the contract to the letter now, or are we just going to pick and choose what we're going to follow depending on what is most advantageous to YOU? If so, then I don't quit. First, I'm sitting down now, and you must pay me until I get paid everything you owe, specifically the stolen tool money, since October. So I'm on the clock since you stopped it an hour ago. Where is my money? Because you are paying me until I have it. Second, lose my cellphone number, I'm blocking calls from your cell and this office. You can only contact me on my home phone when I'm there, or on the company cellphone or radio that you provide and pay for. As per contract."

...Boss disappeared into the backroom for a while then appeared with my layoff slip. "Sorry to see you go." 

"It's been a pleasure. Uhhh... aren't you forgetting something?" 

"What?"

"I gave you receipts for all the tools I had stolen, where is that check?" 

"Well... like I said, only tools on the tool list. It was your choice to have all the rest of that stuff."

"How was it my choice, since you never provided any of that other stuff to anyone since I've been here?"

(Shakes his head.)

"Even if you dispute your responsibility, there still the matter of all my tools that are on the tool list? Where's that money?"

"Well, we have to examine your reciepts and determine what was and wasnt required to get you that."

"No, you got those receipts in October, it's Christmas EVe. You owe me. SO I'm sitting and waiting until I have that money. I'm on your clock until this is paid, if you have a problem call the BA, in the meantime I'm calling the area steward." (Whip out my cellphone.)

Boss disappears into backroom again, reappears with check for the entire amount for all my stolen tools. "Here."

"Thank you, have a Merry Christmas."

"Can we call you, are you available for consulting when guys in the field need your assistance?"

"I don't think that's a good idea. This isn't exactly my idea of leaving on friendly terms."

After a 5 year run, I finished 4 weeks of furlough owed then took a Cruise to the Mediterranean. Online to get on the ship in FLorida my cellphone rings, "Hey ****, this is Jerry , I hear you're on the bench do you wanna come back and work for us? (A shop I worked at 9 years ago) 

"OK"

"Can you start monday and I need you to text Tom with your social."

"No, I'm going on a cruise wont be back until next Sunday and then I'll need a week to recover from that."

"****. OK, enjoy the cruise, text tom your social and your certifications and special skills so we can yank you now and when you get back just start on the Monday after."

"No I need a week to recover from the cruise it's a week long party boat and I'll be shot."

"I'd rather have you here shot that 1/2 the guys I have in their normal condition. Stop dicking around I gotta go. You're gonna start 7pm and you're with Eric."

"OK"

I hit a location where the GC ho also hires my old shop was working. 

"Hey you're with these guys now?!"
"Yea I quit the old."
"Can you take on more work I can't stand dealing with your old shop."
"Whaddya got?"
"More projects just like this, all over."
"I don't see why not, I don't even understand why you bothered with my old shop if you have a relationship with this one?"
"Because you were working there."
"Really?"
"Yea. But now you're here so we don't need him anymore. But I only want you, not just anybody they send like your old shop did."
"Call my foremen and explain to him. He'll put you in tough with my PM and work it out."

...as of yesterday the old boss still hasn't paid the other 2 guys for their stolen tools.

Last week: "Hey ****, you know anyone else with your certs that we can get?"

"Yea I know 2 guys, but they're working."

"They happy?"

"I don't think so."

"We need 2 more guys at least. You've been working 60-70 hours a week and you can't keep doing that. We just got more work because of you."

"I'll text you their contact numbers."

Long story short, both guys told the foreman yes they'll quit but waiting for their tool money. Neither has the stones to demand it like I did. So they're offered $1000.00 to quit and come over. Both accepted.

Got letter from hall on Friday. Opened it this morning. Old boss is bringing me up on charges. 

This is gonna get interesting...


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Charges of _what_ Island Dude?

~CS~


----------



## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

All too familiar.


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

Why would your boss be responsible if your tools we're stolen
When I worked for someone I always took my tools home 
Now that I work for myself I always take all my tools with me everyday


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Charges of _what_ Island Dude?
> 
> ~CS~


That was my other question, what charges


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricalwiz said:


> .........When I worked for someone I always took my tools home .........


Yuuuup!:thumbsup:


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Only worked with one company that played by those game rules. Shortest I was ever with any one, @3 years. The time constraints, drive time and cell stuff are exactly same issues among tool list non compliance and tool replacement policy. The guy also abused the apprentice big time, most often verbally insulting him and his father that also worked there. I never could understand it. He started to get loud with me once and I told him to stop right there, I wasn't the other guys and would just quit or take it to a level he didn't want. He just stood there whining like a little girl about the other guys (I lost any respect I had for the guy). He was a royal JO, last I heard he was battling cancer, karma got him.

I wouldn't worry about his claims, I imagine you have everything documented in a notebook as opposed to just committed to memory.


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

electricalwiz said:


> When I worked for someone I always took my tools home
> Now that I work for myself I always take all my tools with me everyday


I insist the guys take their personal tools home every night. No exceptions!


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

electricalwiz said:


> Why would your boss be responsible if your tools we're stolen
> When I worked for someone I always took my tools home
> Now that I work for myself I always take all my tools with me everyday




Why wouldn't the boss be responsible for your tools damaged or stolen on HIS jobsite ?


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

wcord said:


> I insist the guys take their personal tools home every night. No exceptions!



That makes sense and a way to avoid having insurance to cover such claims.


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Mech Diver said:


> That makes sense and a way to avoid having insurance to cover such claims.


it's not so much the insurance, but there have been times when the plan for the next day fell apart. This way, nobody has to go and get their tools, before going to a different job.
Plus, if their tools are stolen, major lost time while said tools are replaced. 
just read about the hassles Island went thru, and calculate the overall costs of the loss. 
I have different things to worry about than replacing hand tools.


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Charges of _what_ Island Dude?
> 
> ~CS~


I can't think of what he thinks he can go after you for.
Seems like you went about things in an orderly and professional manner.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

wcord said:


> I can't think of what he thinks he can go after you for.
> Seems like you went about things in an orderly and professional manner.



There are rules and sort of a chain of command to go through with Union grievances with an employer and some were avoided here. Quitting is also a taboo when the problems haven't gone through proper channels beforehand. But with a contractor like this I'm sure Island Guy can talk his way out of any problems. The contractor sounds like a complete JO.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

wcord said:


> it's not so much the insurance, but there have been times when the plan for the next day fell apart. This way, nobody has to go and get their tools, before going to a different job.
> Plus, if their tools are stolen, major lost time while said tools are replaced.
> just read about the hassles Island went thru, and calculate the overall costs of the loss.
> I have different things to worry about than replacing hand tools.




Understood, the change of plans issue isn't one that came to mind.


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

Mech Diver said:


> Why wouldn't the boss be responsible for your tools damaged or stolen on HIS jobsite ?


because you could take them home
I dont know why he would be unless he stole them


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

wcord said:


> ......., but there have been times when the plan for the next day fell apart. This way, nobody has to go and get their tools, before going to a different job............


Another reason is one decides to quit while at home.

I did that once. The boss called me at 6 PM and changed my schedule to work 3rd shift on a job..... _that night_. I quit before I hung the phone up.

I had my tools in my truck and started another job the next day.


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Mech Diver said:


> Why wouldn't the boss be responsible for your tools damaged or stolen on HIS jobsite ?


Many union contracts have a clause with something to the effect that the company must provide a place to lock up personal tools and are responsible for replacing them only if they are locked up in that designated area. It's the cost of doing business.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm going to do my best and reply here without being argumentative...

Your tools go home with you every day. No exceptions. If they get stolen out of a job gang box or connex, it's your fault. Period.

I am sympathetic to you, since I once had my tools stolen out of the tool box of a company truck parked at my house... I was not compensated for them. It was irritating, but that's life.

Second, your story if filled with jargon talk and complaints about union life. Something that is foreign to me. I'm glad it sounds like your working again, but let me add one more suggestion - do not ever expect a bonus. Ever. NEVER EVER. A bonus is something that is a gift that is above what you already have agreed to work for. It is not deserved.

The only bonus I ever got working for others, was they took us all out to Shoneys after we did a 2000 amp service upgrade at a medical center. Maybe a handle full of other times they also ordered us pizza. 

I have given bonuses out to people who have worked for me, but not because they did their jobs well, but because they worked so hard and beyond the call of duty that I felt it deserved a reward. And I was glad to give it.

Let's try to move away from this self entitlement problem. It's absolutely ruining the younger generations.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

bill39 said:


> Many union contracts have a clause with something to the effect that the company must provide a place to lock up personal tools and are responsible for replacing them only if they are locked up in that designated area. It's the cost of doing business.



Exactly my point. Not to mention the contractors that go beyond contractual obligations and replace tools damaged or stolen on a job.


----------



## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

I guess this is not a Large Job with Gang Box's and , or a Locked Room for
the electricians .

On every Job there has been provisions for Tools . There should be .

Small Jobs , the tools are in the Truck .




Don


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Mech Diver said:


> Exactly my point. Not to mention the contractors that go beyond contractual obligations and replace tools damaged or stolen on a job.


Just an FYI to Mech Driver: I was replying to the response by electricalwiz View where he said:
"Why would your boss be responsible if your tools we're stolen
When I worked for someone I always took my tools home 
Now that I work for myself I always take all my tools with me everyday"


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> I'm going to do my best and reply here without being argumentative...
> 
> Your tools go home with you every day. No exceptions. If they get stolen out of a job gang box or connex, it's your fault. Period.
> 
> ...


On a railroad union job just the other day,because they needed a local spark

Hellen Keller could have picked out the dif , and they're quite proud of it too

I swear it's a gene .....~CS~:laughing:


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

This girl will bitch when she gets to heaven has 21 virgins waiting on her, serving her lunch on a gold platter and she thinks the gold is tarnished.

Get the wa-wa-wambulance.

So it is hard to believe anything negative posted about anything, from this member.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> I'm going to do my best and reply here without being argumentative...
> 
> Your tools go home with you every day. No exceptions. If they get stolen out of a job gang box or connex, it's your fault. Period.


 If you want to run your company like that, that's your business. But if you're going to sign with the union, you have to follow the contracts that you agreed to.

The OP is in NYC, most workers take buses and trains. Taking 40lbs of tools home everyday is not normal.

Even in the suburbs that I worked in, I never took my tools home, I used a second set for side work that were setup for resi work.

The contractor is required to provide a locked metal box and insure the tools up to $500 as long as they are on the tool list.

The OP expects the contractor to follow the contract, but he also wants the contractor to pay over the maximum amount for tools that aren't on the list. It's funny how that works, all take, no give...


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

bill39 said:


> Just an FYI to Mech Driver: I was replying to the response by electricalwiz View where he said:
> "Why would your boss be responsible if your tools we're stolen
> When I worked for someone I always took my tools home
> Now that I work for myself I always take all my tools with me everyday"



Just an FYI: you may want to go back and look at what you quoted in your response !


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> ....... Taking 40lbs of tools home everyday is not normal..........


Neither is hauling 40 lbs of personal tools in to the job site.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Jrzy said:


> If you want to run your company like that, that's your business. But if you're going to sign with the union, you have to follow the contracts that you agreed to.
> 
> The OP is in NYC, most workers take buses and trains. Taking 40lbs of tools home everyday is not normal.
> 
> ...


I'm not in the union, therefore I'm talking from outside in. I also don't live in NYC, where I need take a subway into work. So, I understand it's a little different world...

But regardless, My tools go home with me. Period. And I pretty much expect other guys to do the same, if they don't, their rolling the dice. These tools are how err pay our bills and feed our kids. They are your responsibilities to keep up with them.

Subway commute or not, union contact or not - these tools stay with me.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> If you want to run your company like that, that's your business. But if you're going to sign with the union, you have to follow the contracts that you agreed to.
> 
> The OP is in NYC, most workers take buses and trains. Taking 40lbs of tools home everyday is not normal.
> 
> ...



And you don't see any infractions of said Union Agreement on behalf of the employer ?????


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Neither is hauling 40 lbs of personal tools in to the job site.


Exactly, that's why you keep them on the jobsite when the tool list requires you to have so many tools with you on the job.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mech Diver said:


> And you don't see any infractions of said Union Agreement on behalf of the employer ?????


As far as the tools being insured, no.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> As far as the tools being insured, no.



If you read it all it sounds like the tools were just icing on the cake. The employer sounds like a genuine hack that should be running his business out of his mom's basement. Picking materials out of the bone yard should be a good indicator of his 'proper business practices'.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> Exactly, that's why you keep them on the jobsite when the tool list requires you to have so many tools with you on the job.


You missed the point. Are you required to have so many _personal_ tools they end up weighing 40 pounds?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mech Diver said:


> If you read it all it sounds like the tools were just icing on the cake.


 And I was only speaking about the tools.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You missed the point. Are you required to have so many _personal_ tools they end up weighing 40 pounds?


No, you missed the point. Read the post that you quoted: "the tool list requires you to have so many tools with you on the job".


----------



## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

I do not believe this Topic .

The distance to my car , at some of the Jobs I have worked on is extreme .

The amount of tools I carry is beyond a tool list .

The Gang boxes and Electricians Locked areas are insured .


Please do not make it harder ...


Don


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

There is no common sense applied in this thread from either side of it. If they had not banned erectrician from this forum we would have an answer already concerning the union employee who is asshurt about his employment and what should be done.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> There is no common sense applied in this thread from either side of it. If they had not banned erectrician from this forum we would have an answer already concerning the union employee who is asshurt about his employment and what should be done.


The opinion of B guys (now CE/CW) doesn't count.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> The opinion of B guys (now CE/CW) doesn't count.


He has a really nice fishing boat. That counts as double in my book.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> No, you missed the point. Read the post that you quoted: "the tool list requires you to have so many tools with you on the job".


Let's try this again:

There's a difference between 'the' tool list that requires you to have so many tools with you on the job 

AND

the tool list YOU are required to supply.


Two totally different lists. One is those tools that your employer supplies, and the one YOU are required to supply. Not just bring on the job because you want to, you like to, you have a tool fetish, you like spending money on tools, your tools are better than the ones your employer is supposed to supply, or you bring them on the job because your employer is a cheap-ass and won't supply them and you end up bringing them in just to get the job done. The ones you are required to supply and have on hand. _Those_ tools. *Just* those tools. Your tools, that you are required to have on the job.


So I ask again: Do the tools YOU are required to supply weigh 40 pounds?


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Jrzy said:


> The contractor is required to provide a locked metal box and insure the tools up to $500 as long as they are on the tool list.
> 
> The OP expects the contractor to follow the contract, but he also wants the contractor to pay over the maximum amount for tools that aren't on the list. It's funny how that works, all take, no give...


Ok Hax, let's say there was a gangbox , the contractor DID follow the contract, and the tools were stolen anyways

Now what?

~CS~


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Let's try this again:
> 
> There's a difference between 'the' tool list that requires you to have so many tools with you on the job
> 
> ...


 No, there is no difference.

You are wrong. All of the rest of the crap you typed up is nonsense. You have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Ok Hax, let's say there was a gangbox , the contractor DID follow the contract, and the tools were stolen anyways
> 
> Now what?
> 
> ~CS~


The contractor's insurance will pay for the tools stolen that are on the tool list, up to the maximum. It's happened to me, I got a check for $500.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Let's try this again:
> 
> There's a difference between 'the' tool list that requires you to have so many tools with you on the job
> 
> ...



It all depends on who is answering. I always carried way more than what was on the tool list. Most often three or four times the tool list. I carried what made my day go smoother and work smarter not harder. All that stated, if I was going into the city to a long distance work site I would carry all my required tools in a backpack and never leave them there over night.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Jrzy said:


> The contractor's insurance will pay for the tools stolen that are on the tool list, up to the maximum. It's happened to me, I got a check for $500.


Really , so no q's asked then Hax?:no: Just walk away from that gangbox for lunch , leave & leave it_ wiIIIIIIiiiiide _open ....

What's to prevent you from _rippin' each other off,_ and splittin' the insurance _'take'_ then?:whistling2:

~CS~


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mech Diver said:


> It all depends on who is answering. I always carried way more than what was on the tool list. Most often three or four times the tool list. I carried what made my day go smoother and work smarter not harder. All that stated, if I was going into the city to a long distance work site I would carry all my required tools in a backpack and never leave them there over night.


480sparky is Mr. By-The-Book about everything. And going by the book, the CBA contractually requires all members to carry the complete tool list with them at all times. This was a point of contention at many meetings over the years.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Really , so no q's asked then Hax?:no: Just walk away from that gangbox for lunch , leave & leave it_ wiIIIIIIiiiiide _open ....
> 
> What's to prevent you from _rippin' each other off,_ and splittin' the insurance _'take'_ then?:whistling2:
> 
> ~CS~


In my situation, many gangboxes were busted opened, the jobsite was vandalized, and many people had their tools stolen. Police came in, made reports. I submitted receipts for the tools that I bought to replace the ones that were stolen, a few weeks later I got a check for the maximum.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm not interested in dismal anecdotals , answer the Q Hax

~CS~


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> Really , so no q's asked then Hax?:no: Just walk away from that gangbox for lunch , leave & leave it_ wiIIIIIIiiiiide _open ....
> 
> What's to prevent you from _rippin' each other off,_ and splittin' the insurance _'take'_ then?:whistling2:
> 
> ~CS~



This type thing happens, it is very location dependent. There are all kinds of insurance scams, have seen a few, even contractors that ripped off their own employees for cash reasons. On a side note I've had an insurance guy tell me that the month of December is the one with the most loss of small fingers for his company and they send out checks for a prearranged price of settlement.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> I'm not interested in dismal anecdotals , answer the Q Hax
> 
> ~CS~


You asked me a question and I answered you with direct experience of how the system works. What more do you want from me?

Dismal? Do you even know what that word means?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> No, there is no difference.
> 
> You are wrong. All of the rest of the crap you typed up is nonsense. You have no idea what you are talking about.



You mean there's no difference between the tools your employer supplies and the ones you're required to supply?

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what, precisely, that difference is.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Thank you for your honesty MechD :thumbsup:

So correct me if i'm wrong, during working hours it's up to the workers to police their own tools 

Lock down hours ,all is covered.

fwiw, this is the '_contractual_ _hole_' the contractor may wish to work on the OP

~CS~


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Jrzy said:


> Dismal? Do you even know what that word means?


Patience Hax,:whistling2: We're slowly assuming an education with every incarnation you grace us with....:laughing:~CS~


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You mean there's no difference between the tools your employer supplies and the ones you're required to supply?
> 
> Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what, precisely, that difference is.


That is not what I said, no one said anything about tools that the employer is required to provide.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Thank you for your honesty MechD :thumbsup:
> 
> So correct me if i'm wrong, during working hours it's up to the workers to police their own tools
> 
> ...


No, it's not up to the workers to police anything. This "hole" you just made up is nothing but your own fantasy.


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

what tools are you required to have with you everyday


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> That is not what I said, no one said anything about tools that the employer is required to provide.


Your tap-dancing around the question and avoiding it was expected. Thanks.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electricalwiz said:


> what tools are you required to have with you everyday


The entire tool list in your agreement.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

_Really_ Hax? 

Guess what, i just found out how to get _brand new spankin' tools _anytime !
:thumbup:
~CS~


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Your tap-dancing around the question and avoiding it was expected. Thanks.


I didn't tap dance around anything. You asked a question about contractor provided tools which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

You being wrong and not admitting to it was expected from the start.

For some reason you thought that union workers weren't required to bring the entire tool list everyday, and that contractors can make up their own limited list. But you were wrong. Instead of admitting tot hat, you changed the discussion into contractor provided tools just to cloud the issue.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> _Really_ Hax?
> 
> Guess what, i just found out how to get _brand new spankin' tools _anytime !
> :thumbup:
> ~CS~


What is your point? That you can steal your own tools and lie about it to the police and insurance?

You can do that with your car too, why not bring it to the chop-shop and sell it for cash and then claim it was stolen to get the insurance money?

I guess the average person is just more honest than you.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> I didn't tap dance around anything. You asked a question about contractor provided tools which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.
> 
> You being wrong and not admitting to it was expected from the start.
> 
> For some reason you thought that union workers weren't required to bring the entire tool list everyday, and that contractors can make up their own limited list. But you were wrong. Instead of admitting tot hat, you changed the discussion into contractor provided tools just to cloud the issue.


Since you can't even answer simple questions, this shows your true colors.

Respond as you wish, I really don't give a damn about you or whatever chest-thumping answer you care to offer. And I don't care what you feel about me either.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Since you can't even answer simple questions, this shows your true colors.
> 
> Respond as you wish, I really don't give a damn about you. And I don't care what you feel about me either.


I've answered every single question asked of me. 

Seriously, just give it up already. You made a mistake, admit it for once.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I want to hear some more about these right after lunch naps that I have been hearing directly about from a person I am related to who has informed me of typical day happenings at his union job. It sounds like something out of a novel.


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Mech Diver said:


> Just an FYI: you may want to go back and look at what you quoted in your response !


Mech Diver: Rather than arguing with you, I was trying to agree with you and disagree with electricalwiz. Below is what I was referring to in my original post:

Quote:
"Originally Posted by electricalwiz View Post 

Why would your boss be responsible if your tools we're stolen
When I worked for someone I always took my tools home 
 Now that I work for myself I always take all my tools with me everyday

(by Mech Diver) Why wouldn't the boss be responsible for your tools damaged or stolen on HIS jobsite ?


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

bill39 said:


> Mech Diver: Rather than arguing with you, I was trying to agree with you and disagree with electricalwiz. Below is what I was referring to in my original post:
> 
> Quote:
> "Originally Posted by electricalwiz View Post
> ...


I just thought you may have quoted the wrong post, no argument intended.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I want to hear some more about these right after lunch naps that I have been hearing directly about from a person I am related to who has informed me of typical day happenings at his union job. It sounds like something out of a novel.


Sounds like the first company I worked for, j-man I was sent out with was fairly old. Sent me out for coffee just before lunch, looked for him when I got back and found him asleep in a fresh air supply duct in the main mechanical room. Thought he was DOA when I saw him lying there.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Jrzy said:


> I guess the average person is just more honest than you.


:lol: and i'd guess the average person has more fiber in their diet than you Hax....:laughing:~CS~


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> :lol: and i'd guess the average person has more fiber in their diet than you Hax....:laughing:~CS~


Steve, you seem to be looking for an argument. 

I explained how the system works, I don't know what more I can do.

Sure, people can game the system, but I never saw it happen. And people can game any system.

Here is an excerpt from the tool list thread, this is in one local's CBA. This should answer your question:

"_In the event of break-in where proper authorities (police or security personnel) are notified and afforded an opportunity to investigate, the Employer will be required to replace stolen or missing tools._"


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> ...........For some reason you thought that union workers weren't required to bring the entire tool list everyday, ..........


Well, there you go shooting your mouth off again. Putting made-up words in someone else's mouth again.

I won't bother to ask you where I said that because you'll merely refuse to do so. Typical forum troll.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Well, there you go shooting your mouth off again. Putting made-up words in someone else's mouth again.
> 
> I won't bother to ask you where I said that because you'll merely refuse to do so. Typical forum troll.


You said it in post #39. You know that you said it. It's right there in your own text. But you will still do everything you can to act like you didn't say it, including the twisting of words that will fill up your next post.

The point that I made was VERY clear and everyone else understood it: Keeping your tools on the job overnight is a great advantage when you would otherwise have to carry 40lbs. of tools on the subway because that's what the tool list requires.

You can argue about other tool lists that you made up in your head, but from now on you will be arguing with yourself.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> You said it in post #39.........


Whatever drugs you're on, I want some of it.



480sparky said:


> Let's try this again:
> 
> There's a difference between 'the' tool list that requires you to have so many tools with you on the job
> 
> ...



OK, so now try to show us where I said anything about union electricians.
*
Anything.*

_*One word*_ about unions.


Fact is, there's not one mention about union electricians, is there?

Fact is, I never state anyone (union or not) is not required to bring all their tools.


Just goes to show everyone you're making stuff up.


So please, stop trolling.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Can someone post what a typical "tool list" might be?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Can someone post what a typical "tool list" might be?


You're in luck, there is an entire thread started this morning:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f14/union-j-mans-tool-list-158122/


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Whatever drugs you're on, I want some of it.
> 
> OK, so now try to show us where I said anything about union electricians.
> *
> ...


The thread is about the union.
The topic at hand was about the union tool list.
I was speaking about the union tool list.
You quoted me speaking about the union tool list.
You asked me a question about said (union) tool list that I was speaking about.

Therefore, to everyone else in the world, you asked about the union tool list.

But again, we all know you will never admit you were wrong. It's me who is on drugs, that explains it.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> The thread is about the union.
> The topic at hand was about the union tool list.
> I was speaking about the union tool list.
> You quoted me speaking about the union tool list.
> ...



Really?

Where did the OP mention unions?


Oh, never mind.


You are living in your own make-believe world where thumping your chest about 'being right' and constantly reiterating how others are wrong are are more important. Typical troll behavior.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Really?
> 
> Where did the OP mention unions?


 Are you seriously that out of touch with reality? I don't think so, I just think you are willing to go to any length to not admit you made a mistake.




> Oh, never mind.
> 
> You are living in your own make-believe world where thumping your chest about 'being right' and constantly reiterating how others are wrong are are more important. Typical troll behavior.


Yeah, this is MY "made up" world in which LawnGuyLandSparky/IslandDude is a well known member of local 3 and everyone in the thread knew he was posting about his union situation.


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

Island girl has always been a whine sack so none of this surprises me


----------



## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

1. If you are going to be a douche then maybe you shouldn't be a moderator. 

2. What union gives out bonuses to their workers because I have never seen bonus money in a contract? 

3. Tool bags are heavy and expecting someone to lug around tools on a train and/or bus everyday is freaking idiotic.

4. Theft of tools on jobs I have been on( at least 80 percent of my work has been in a city) is almost ZERO when it comes to a mans hand tools BUT some people usually from other trades will steal a company tool but that is also rare.


----------



## TRurak (Apr 10, 2016)

I should have brought popcorn for this thread


----------



## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

....


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

This is in reply to the 1st 20 posts, so that everyone is on the same page. I, and everyone have received a bonus every year the company has been in business and every new employee working there for the majority of the year got it too. 

When all of your employees are working and expecting that bonus, and it isn't given, there's an implied contract that's been broken. For instance, I can overlook the uncompensated cost of him using my cellphone, or having to purchase specialty tools like tamperproof screwdrivers and tamperproof hex key sets. 

As for tool storage - when working on a jobsite a suitable locker is to be provided because if you don't, the company is required to pay 1 hour travel time each day for the employee to have to take them home and back on a daily basis. Working on a jobsite requires a shanty as well. 

Being we're working in NYC, you cannot expect tradesmen, most of whom take public transportation, to hump their tools, Carharts, hardhat, goggles, etc to and from work everyday. 

SO, the choice is either provide a secure place for changing, washing, lunch eating, etc, and a lockable box for personal tools only, or pay an hour travel time to each employee every day to compensate the inconvenience of having to keep them on your person to and from work every day. 

In the event there is a theft, the employer is responsible. We do have tool coverage through the union, however if that is to be used then the process to make a claim passed when the boss said to re-purchase everything that was lost and bring him the receipts- and then proceeded to do nothing about beyond that point. In actuality the company filed a claim with their insurer and collected not only on the 6-8 powertools they lost, but ALL OF the employees personal tools with THEIR receipts but failed to forward that money to US.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

IslandGuy said:


> When all of your employees are working and expecting that bonus, and it isn't given, there's an implied contract that's been broken.


 Bologna.



> For instance, I can overlook the uncompensated cost of him using my cellphone, or having to purchase specialty tools like tamperproof screwdrivers and tamperproof hex key sets.


 Those were your choices, you didn't have to do those things. I wish I got a bonus for every time I used my cell phone on the job or used a small tool that wasn't on the list.



> In actuality the company filed a claim with their insurer and collected not only on the 6-8 powertools they lost, but ALL OF the employees personal tools with THEIR receipts but failed to forward that money to US.


That is for your shop steward to elevate to the hall. A BA should have been overseeing this since the theft first happened.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

This is in response to the 2nd 20 posts:

The tools we are required to supply are,

Tool box / bag and lock (Just about everyone uses a bag)
6-foot rule (Practically nobody uses a 6-foor wood folding rule anymore, it's usually a 25-30' tape measure)
1 pair pump pliers. (That's great, but what pair is good for everything from 3/4 GRC to 3"? Just about everybody has 2 pair.)
9" sidecutting pliers
3 screwdrivers (small medium large)
2 phillips 
1 electricians knife
1 claw hammer
1 hacksaw
1 flashlight
work gloves

The following tools are only required to be provided by the employee if the employer requests them after initially reporting to work:

Tap wrench (Not the taps)
9" level
plumb bob
adj. wrench
dikes
awl
long nose pliers
fuse puller
compass saw
voltage tester

You can bet most employees toolbag weighs more than 40#.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

So what exactly is the old boss going after you for? I get that he's pissed about losing work, but my theory has always been, it's my work to keep or lose. I don't blame others if I lose it. Customer makes the call on where the money goes.


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> This is in response to the 2nd 20 posts:
> 
> The tools we are required to supply are,
> 
> ...


Not wanting to be argumentative but an electrician without a voltage tester?

Why not be a plumber and I know it is not a tool that on some jobs you can go for a long time without using. BUT myself I would never be without one.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Threads like this make me realize how much the union is completely different than the rest off the world. 

It world be similar to me telling stories about when I was I'm the army to some guys who never served. They'd be piecing together fragments and trying their best to figure out what I was talking about.


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

MHElectric said:


> Threads like this make me realize how much the union is completely different than the rest off the world. It world be similar to me telling stories about when I was I'm the army to some guys who never served. They'd be piecing together fragments and trying their best to figure out what I was talking about.


I've ran my company union and nonunion. Really not much difference at all. Not for how I run things anyway.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

dawgs said:


> I've ran my company union and nonunion. Really not much difference at all. Not for how I run things anyway.


Well, I'm just basing that statement off of what I hear these clowns bicker about. I am ignorant in this matter.


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Jrzy said:


> 480sparky is Mr. By-The-Book about everything. And going by the book, the CBA contractually requires all members to carry the complete tool list with them at all times. This was a point of contention at many meetings over the years.


What's wrong with "By-The-Book"? Criticize 480 all you want, his old boots have more experience than most of us.


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

dawgs said:


> I've ran my company union and nonunion. Really not much difference at all. Not for how I run things anyway.


:thumbsup:

Having worked open shop and now operating a union shop I agree. 

All types of people in both worlds some whiners, some excellent workers, some excellent workers that whine.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Both types of shops have two types of people. Some spell it baloney and some single balled guys insist on Balogna. Spelled like a one donkey town in Spain.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I imagine there's less drunks, druggies, and down on their luck guys in the union. 

But on the flip side of that, I imagine there's more pre Madonnas , and tattle tales and all that mess..

Just depends which brand of goons you feel more comfortable working with. :jester:


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

backstay said:


> So what exactly is the old boss going after you for? I get that he's pissed about losing work, but my theory has always been, it's my work to keep or lose. I don't blame others if I lose it. Customer makes the call on where the money goes.


I don't know, I been on the phone with only 2 people since I only found out about this this morning. So far all I know for sure is the company that we picked up a lot of work from was slated to assign it to my old shop and specifically told them the plans are cancelled because I'm no longer there and that work was granted with the understanding that I would be doing it. 

I don't know officially if I violated any provision in the working agreement and won't until I get the info from the BA. So far, everyone is telling me not to worry.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Bad Electrician said:


> Not wanting to be argumentative but an electrician without a voltage tester?
> 
> Why not be a plumber and I know it is not a tool that on some jobs you can go for a long time without using. BUT myself I would never be without one.


Picture yourself on a jobsite where all your doing is running pipe, or all your doing is setting up panels and electrical closets, or all your doing is pulling wire. 

I never use my tester because I know everything I work on IS like and has to be worked on live so it's not necessary at all.


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> Picture yourself on a jobsite where all your doing is running pipe, or all your doing is setting up panels and electrical closets, or all your doing is pulling wire.
> 
> I never use my tester because I know everything I work on IS like and has to be worked on live so it's not necessary at all.


I know this BUT still I would NEVER be without a tester.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Bad Electrician said:


> Not wanting to be argumentative but an electrician without a voltage tester?
> 
> Why not be a plumber and I know it is not a tool that on some jobs you can go for a long time without using. BUT myself I would never be without one.


On MAJOR jobs it's common for the project to be 'cold' for months on end. 

11 months to build out the underground -- alone -- with all power GFCI temp -- with the troops never needing to bother with it. 

( A special detail -- only -- was permitted to touch it.)

Hence, on such huge scale jobs, the tester is mandatory only after the employer says -- "It's time."


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

IslandGuy said:


> I don't know, I been on the phone with only 2 people since I only found out about this this morning. So far all I know for sure is the company that we picked up a lot of work from was slated to assign it to my old shop and specifically told them the plans are cancelled because I'm no longer there and that work was granted with the understanding that I would be doing it.
> 
> I don't know officially if I violated any provision in the working agreement and won't until I get the info from the BA. So far, everyone is telling me not to worry.


Well, you ought to worry. :thumbsup:

Hillary is going to be the Democrat nominee. :laughing:


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Ya know, Sanders is trailing by only a few points, there's a couple more primaries that Sanders should do better in coming up... and then there's California - where Sanders will mop the floor with Hillary. She's in such a panic that she's now courting Republican donors and lobbiests to fund her campaign.


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

Did I understand your original post correctly, that it is against your contract to quit?

So you can only get a layoff or be fired?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

kg7879 said:


> Did I understand your original post correctly, that it is against your contract to quit?
> 
> So you can only get a layoff or be fired?


 Yes, there is no provision for him to quit. As he spelled out in the original post, he had to ask for a layoff. Not only is that against any union rules, it is also illegal. 

He is supposed to let the union deal with these issues instead of fraudulently being laid off, stealing unemployment insurance, and poaching customers from the contractor.


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

Jrzy said:


> Yes, there is no provision for him to quit. As he spelled out in the original post, he had to ask for a layoff. Not only is that against any union rules, it is also illegal.
> 
> He is supposed to let the union deal with these issues instead of fraudulently being laid off, stealing unemployment insurance, and poaching customers from the contractor.


I'm in the union and we can quit any time we want in my local.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Both types of shops have two types of people. Some spell it baloney and some single balled guys insist on Balogna. Spelled like a one donkey town in Spain.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

kg7879 said:


> I'm in the union and we can quit any time we want in my local.


Does your CBA allow it? Or is it just generally accepted because no one makes an issue out of it?


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

kg7879 said:


> Did I understand your original post correctly, that it is against your contract to quit?
> 
> So you can only get a layoff or be fired?


Quitting is not permitted. If doing so results in a termination that states "employee requested layoff" then upon signing the book the employment director will require a letter of explanation. In my case, that letter would state any one or all of the reasons I outlined in my OP, and nothing more would come of it. In addition, a 4+ year run with a single small employer speaks for itself on my behalf, as well as my 26+ year historic employment record of less than 14 employers.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> Yes, there is no provision for him to quit. As he spelled out in the original post, he had to ask for a layoff. Not only is that against any union rules, it is also illegal.
> 
> He is supposed to let the union deal with these issues instead of fraudulently being laid off, stealing unemployment insurance, and poaching customers from the contractor.


Wow that came across as harsh, let me be clear.

There is no provision to quit, however, it is done all the time. A layoff is politely and respectfully requested, it's up to the employer to decide if s/he is going to comply, or hang on to a journeyman who no longer wishes to work there. 

Since the employer granted a "lack of work" layoff, there is no fraud, and no crime was committed. 5 weeks of unemployment was collected without any protest from the contractor paying it. In addition, mandatory furlough time was owed anyway, so, 6 in one or a half-dozen in the other.

As for poaching, I did not go out and solicit jobs from "his" customer, his customer was only his customer because I worked there, it was that customer who made the conscious choice to choose the contractor who employs me.

That customer was just as fed up with his antics as I was, and this was not the first time he's lost a customer due to his mismanagement and penny-pinching and lack of good business practices.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

IslandGuy said:


> I don't know officially if I violated any provision in the working agreement and won't until I get the info from the BA. So far, everyone is telling me not to worry.


Could it be that the others who lost tools following your lead? The EC invented some 'clause'....? 

~CS~


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

kg7879 said:


> I'm in the union and we can quit any time we want in my local.


A little history as to why we cannot quit - back in the day when unions ruled supreme, we had our fair share of primmadonnas. Nobody wanted to work on a project that was difficult to get to. For some people, "difficult" meant more than one train, for others, 2 or 3 trains and a bus, still others if the job wasn't in Manhattan it was NG, or, if parking was abltch it was a no-go.

Also, for some, if a big job with likely lots of OT was manning up, steps were taken to get off this 35-hour jobsite by any means possible. 

Our contract doesn't specifically state that one may not quit. It states that the union will take every reasonable step to ensure that the entire jurisdiction is manned.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> Could it be that the others who lost tools following your lead? The EC invented some 'clause'....?
> 
> ~CS~


Well if that's the case, then i was simply following the lead of a number of damn good journeymen who worked there and also quit, much for the same reasons I did. They guy picks and chooses which provisions he wants to follow in our CBA. Should an employee do it it gets thrown in their face. 

Since the shop has both static jobsites and jobbing type work where bucket and boom trucks are driven to various locations, the employer takes liberties with the provisions for transferring from one jobsite to another.

For instance, on a site where there's a Conix box and shanty that I am working at, on Friday afternoon I get a phone call to report to the shop Monday to do some boom truck work. I'm supposed to get an hour travel time to carry my tools onto the subway and then onto the LIRR and then back onto the LIRR Monday and then a subway to the shop. Since everyone knows he's not going to throw an extra hour into anybody's paycheck to cover the transfer, we would just leave an hour early to save face. 

Often, there would be instructions to leave the trucks parked at a jobsite location which has no Conix box or shanty- and go home from there, report directly there the next day. That's against our CBA. There's no provision to lock up your tools except withing the truck's bins, which are in no way a safe place for upwards to a thousand dollars in each bin - there are no provisions to change out of your work clothes into something appropriate and dignified for a commute home on a train. There are no provisions to wash up, take a leak, etc. 

He is doing this to save the cost of the employee driving the company truck back to the shop 1-1.5 hours each way. That's known as externalizing liabilities, internalizing profits.

Invariably, this causes one to run out of necessary material when the truck isn't returned to home base regularly - so materials are requested, which end up getting delivered by a (whatever the hell he calls them, since they're not project managers, not expediters, not estimators, just Guy Fridays I suppose.) This is against our CBA. 

As stated, anyone can overlook a violation now and again. We're not union Nazis. When I needed a better shop vac because I was installing drag lines, the last thing on my mind is does the guy delivering it have a union card? No all I want is to get the job done. Does it bother me that my hex key set isn't a required tool? No, it's easier for us to all have our own rather than having to rummage through the truck or the shanty for the company set, which may or may not have the size you need. But when it's stolen, yea, I don't feel the boss replacing it in due time is tantamount to having a sense of entitlement or makes me a crybaby or a whiner.

Yes, since I quit 2 others have followed, because they're as fed up as I was and still have not been compensated for their tools. But they were made hole by my present employer and work here now. This means the old shop no longer has anyone certified to do what little work he still has and must hire "unknowns" from the hall - I've since found out he's contacted some others who've quit in the past who told him they're not available - meaning he doesn't want to possibly end up with a union Nazi who will demand what we didn't from the start.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm an EC Island Dude , so i see this as _breach of contract_ by the EC 

From that stance _alone_, it would seem this EC is trying to forward some sort of interference ,counter suit, or litigant deviation in lieu of _owning up_ to it.

Nothing to do with you wearing jackboots at all....

Hopefully your hall will go to bat for you. 

On a personal note , i kick a lot of sand at union guys , but to be truthful i am _jealous _and wish i had some sort of backup.

The reason i opened my own doors was from similar experience(s) via abusive EC's ..... it's been decades on my own now, and it's no bed of roses out there having folks use my contracts for TP 

I'm rootin' for ya & best of luck:thumbsup:

~CS~


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> I'm an EC Island Dude , so i see this as _breach of contract_ by the EC
> 
> From that stance _alone_, it would seem this EC is trying to forward some sort of interference ,counter suit, or litigant deviation in lieu of _owning up_ to it.
> 
> ...


Thanks CS, perhaps you could immortalize your support in song? :thumbsup:


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

"I tried to open his eyes, to make him see but he's blinded by profit plights...
He can't remember the what, he can't remember why, to follow the contract is right
And he can't stand the pain, of profits that don't flow his way,
No he can't stand the pain...

I'm no good at this, Steve you take it from here.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

*To the tune of Aqualung.....*

*
Sitting on the hall bench eyeing litigants with bad intent. 
Snot running down his nose no-lox fingers smearing shabby clothes. 
Dying for a cold one Watching all the shop stewarts fun. 
Feeling like he's outta luck, spitting out pieces of his very last buck.

Sun streaking cold ,the tool bins fate unholy. 
Wasted by EC's because they know. 
they would be glad, if you had a dog brain
but don't go off barkin' defeat


Do you still remember accountings spendthrift sleeze 
As the EC's crawl up your a** in screaming agony. 
Can you snatch your rattling last break,this piss poor cast of clowns
and supeonas bloom like madness in the spring. 

Feeling alone, the stewarts up the road
Osha à la mode and a cup of pee. 
Island dude my friend ,they done you downright sleezy
you tooless spark, we see, all over ET *
:whistling2::no::no::whistling2:
~C_(w/apologies to Jethro Tull)_S~


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Steward, Steve.


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Jrzy said:


> Does your CBA allow it? Or is it just generally accepted because no one makes an issue out of it?


Our guys can quit at anytime and take a job with another contractor if he is hiring. They report to the hall with a pink slip and a request from the other contractor. They are hired on at foreman's rate.


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Bad Electrician said:


> Our guys can quit at anytime and take a job with another contractor if he is hiring. They report to the hall with a pink slip and a request from the other contractor. They are hired on at foreman's rate.


Ours half to sit on the book for 2-weeks if they quit.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bad Electrician said:


> Our guys can quit at anytime and take a job with another contractor if he is hiring. They report to the hall with a pink slip and a request from the other contractor. They are hired on at foreman's rate.


You see, that right there is my point.

That pink slip you gave them is a lay off, correct? So they can't actually quit, they can game the system into you giving them a lay off (which might be illegal in your state). 

And then the game playing continues on when they use the foreman privilege to circumvent the entire out-of-work list (of their so-called "brothers") to get hired on to a new company.

Now I am not saying that I haven't done that myself :whistling2: I'm just calling a spade a spade.


----------



## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

Jrzy said:


> Does your CBA allow it? Or is it just generally accepted because no one makes an issue out of it?


Yes our CBA allows it. If you do quit and try to come back the contractor has a right of refusal, so it is a fine line you have to play. Plus if you do quit most of our contractors have 30 day or 90 day rehire policies. This is what keeps guys from quitting a crappy job and then trying to take a call for a better job with the same contractor.


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Jrzy said:


> and poaching customers from the contractor.


Poaching is when he approaches the customer,and if I read the post properly, the customers informed him. They are following him. Nothing illegal about that.
And even he did approach the customers, AFTER he left, there is nothing wrong with that.
There is no contractual obligation for the customer to stay with any contractor.
Can I be pissed at the ex-employee when customers follow him? Sure. But more pissed at myself
It is up to me, the contractor to keep my customers, and if I lose them, it's my fault for not looking after their needs.


----------



## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Bad Electrician said:


> Our guys can quit at anytime and take a job with another contractor if he is hiring. They report to the hall with a pink slip and a request from the other contractor. They are hired on at foreman's rate.


That's shady, its just a way to circumvent the books effectively screwing over guys waiting their turn.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

wcord said:


> Poaching is when he approaches the customer,and if I read the post properly, the customers informed him. They are following him. Nothing illegal about that.
> And even he did approach the customers, AFTER he left, there is nothing wrong with that.
> There is no contractual obligation for the customer to stay with any contractor.
> Can I be pissed at the ex-employee when customers follow him? Sure. But more pissed at myself
> It is up to me, the contractor to keep my customers, and if I lose them, it's my fault for not looking after their needs.


You missed the point. He can't quit, he wasn't supposed to leave. He is supposed to be still working there. That's the contract that he chose to sign and he expects the contractor to abide by.

He broke the contract, he went against the rules, and as a result the contractor is without a man that they trained for their jobs. They also lost a customer as a result of it.


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Jrzy said:


> You missed the point. He can't quit, he wasn't supposed to leave. He is supposed to be still working there. That's the contract that he chose to sign and he expects the contractor to abide by.
> 
> He broke the contract, he went against the rules, and as a result the contractor is without a man that they trained for their jobs. They also lost a customer as a result of it.


Not knowing the rules for that particular local, I concede he 'may' have left improperly. 
However, loosing the customer is kind of stretching it.
Did the EC break the 'contract' first, by not paying for tool loss as per the Union Agreement? If so ,then is not the contract null and void, thereby opening the option for staff to quit?
We can argue back and forth, but without a thorough knowledge of the local agreement, we are just hypothesizing. 
I think we can agree, the EC is a cheap sob and probably bends as many rules as possible.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

wcord said:


> Not knowing the rules for that particular local, I concede he 'may' have left improperly.
> However, loosing the customer is kind of stretching it.
> Did the EC break the 'contract' first, by not paying for tool loss as per the Union Agreement? If so ,then is not the contract null and void, thereby opening the option for staff to quit?
> We can argue back and forth, but without a thorough knowledge of the local agreement, we are just hypothesizing.
> I think we can agree, the EC is a cheap sob and probably bends as many rules as possible.


No, the contract is not null and void just because the contractor did not pay for the tools yet.

This issue should have been taken up with the BA. 

But I agree, arguing this any further won't get us anywhere. FWIW, I am only arguing the technical side of it. As I mentioned earlier, I have done the same things myself :whistling2:


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Jrzy said:


> You see, that right there is my point.
> 
> That pink slip you gave them is a lay off, correct? So they can't actually quit, they can game the system into you giving them a lay off (which might be illegal in your state).
> 
> ...


Don't know don't care, they want to leave my firm I say good luck. I never want to hold anyone back, hopefully they will do well at the next firm. In 30 years I have had 3 guys leave under this circumstance, I wish them well.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

freeagnt54 said:


> That's shady, its just a way to circumvent the books effectively screwing over guys waiting their turn.


It is shady but in many areas it is the way the prime guys are kept working steady. Life is never fair despite how much you want it to run like a clock on tracks.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Jrzy said:


> You missed the point. He can't quit, he wasn't supposed to leave. He is supposed to be still working there. That's the contract that he chose to sign and he expects the contractor to abide by.
> 
> He broke the contract, he went against the rules, and as a result the contractor is without a man that they trained for their jobs. They also lost a customer as a result of it.


I didn't quit - I asked for a layoff. I got one. If the contractor does it under protest, the layoff could read "man requested layoff." 

The contractor is without a man they needed, but couldn't keep while the contractor was breaking various rules, and breaking them more and more, and more of the rules as time went on.

This contractor didn't train me, in fact, I trained 4 of his men, 2 of whom subsequently followed my lead and quit as well. Presently we were the only 3 certified to do the work he lost, which is no harm no fowl since he lost the work also.

His customer made it clear to him, he's letting the work go to my new shop because that is where I am - he never had this customer before I worked there, they followed me to him so, the guy really has no beef. He had something good going, took it, the contractor, me, the other two guys all for granted. He's made a lot of money, now he's going to make less money, and it is all his own fault. 

A contractor doesn't own another contractor just because he's done work for them. Further, this customer was already engaged with and getting different work done by the shop I'm in now so, he really has no leg to stand on.

As for the other 2 guys, I trained them, I pushed them to get certified through our union hall, and their paying their own dues to the certifier, and on their own time, the ex contractor has no claim on the knowledge of the people who work for him, or once worked for him.

If he learned how to treat the men and the customers who are paying your bills and keeping you in a 5 million dollar mansion better, he wouldn't be in his current predicament. 

The fact of the matter is, he's been losing work from his regular customers for at least the last 1 & 1/2 years- he's trying to perform grade a work using grade c and d material and without the benefit of any project manager to coordinate 12-15 projects and he's been dropping the ball left and right and they're all tired of his inability to function effectively - and he's at a point now where he's burned through so many GCs that there's no more work for him on the horizon.

I wouldn't be surprised if within a year he's working for me. :thumbup:


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

IslandGuy said:


> ... as well as my 26+ year historic employment record of less than 14 employers.


Since I've only worked for a company called J&F or myself since 1981, your record looks to me to be a job hopper. Just can't keep a job ... :laughing:

:jester:


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Since I've only worked for a company called J&F or myself since 1981, your record looks to me to be a job hopper. Just can't keep a job ... :laughing:
> 
> :jester:


Do don't work in an arena where there are tons of contractors who go from 20-200 employees overnight, and from 200-to -20 just as quickly.


----------



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> Do don't work in an arena where there are tons of contractors who go from 20-200 employees overnight, and from 200-to -20 just as quickly.


it is a different life style and different end of the business many are familiar with. I assume you do new commercial construction, industrial and remodel work primarily, not service?


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

electricalwiz said:


> because you could take them home
> I dont know why he would be unless he stole them


Because there are clauses in many of the agreements that require the contractor to provide a gang box with a lock for electricians to store their tools in and additional wording saying if the employee's tools are stolen from the locked gang box the employer must pay for them.


----------

