# Stranded wire wrapped around screw terminals..



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

OK.. today I wired (4) single receptacles with #12 stranded.

I sliced a 1" gap in the insulation to wrap around the ground screw.

It is impossible to tighten the screw and safely push the receptacle into the box without the ground screw loosening up.

I had to pigtail a piece of #12 SOL. to use on the ground screw. 

Normally I use solid wire, this was a real eye opener.

I used Leviton switches that had "clamp tabs" and those were great for stranded wire.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I stock the little crimps on my van for stuff like that. Much better connection IMO.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> OK.. today I wired (4) single receptacles with #12 stranded.
> 
> I sliced a 1" gap in the insulation to wrap around the ground screw.
> 
> ...


 
I only use the devices with the clamp plate under the screw to avoid fighting with problems like that now. Its easier than using the tricks everyone on here use.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> I only use the devices with the clamp plate under the screw to avoid fighting with problems like that now. Its easier than using the tricks everyone on here use.


I havent found a reasonably priced receptacle that has the clamp on the ground screw.

~Matt


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I try, as much as possible, not to terminate stranded on screw terminals. When I occasionally do, I find benefit from pretwisting the conductors counter-clockwise. They don't splay out when you tighten the screw if you pretwist them counter-clockwise.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

captkirk said:


> I stock the little crimps on my van for stuff like that. Much better connection IMO.


same here


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I havent found a reasonably priced receptacle that has the clamp on the ground screw.
> 
> ~Matt


 
Another reason I seldom pull stranded to a device. If there are only 4 of them that would not raise the price too much.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I stock the little crimps on my van for stuff like that. Much better connection IMO.


You can't get a "folded over" #12 into a yellow terminal.. I tried


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> same here


 
I have them also but would rather use the devices with stranded.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I only use the devices with the clamp plate under the screw to avoid fighting with problems like that now. Its easier than using the tricks everyone on here use.


Even the clamp plate switches I used had a basic ground screw that I had to pigtail also.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

captkirk said:


> I stock the little crimps on my van for stuff like that. Much better connection IMO.


STA CONS crimp connectors the way to go in my opinion.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

brian john said:


> STA CONS crimp connectors the way to go in my opinion.


Agreed, definately cheaper than the full backwire receptacle.

I believe even the $12 a piece hubbell receps have a plain ground screw.

~Matt


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

It is much easier using stranded wire when using PVC boxes for swimming pools.. you don't have to fight getting the devise into the box.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> It is much easier using stranded wire when using PVC boxes for swimming pools.. you don't have to fight getting the devise into the box.


 
Stranded is much easier to pull and push in any box, that is until........wait for it......wait for it...................................................................the scotchkote gets hard.:whistling2::laughing:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

When I must, Leviton seems to make the most affordable backwire receptacles. I'd rather just plan on pulling solid to the device circuits, though, and use the cheap receptacles. 

I did a job in Feb for the Defense Information Systems Agency (bunch of cloak and dagger computer geeks), and they have stranded right in their spec. Whatever. I can play by your rules. Stranded MC costs a lot more, if you ever wondered.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Stranded is much easier to pull and push in any box, that is until........wait for it......wait for it...................................................................the scotchkote gets hard.:whistling2:


:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm with the sta-con crowd. They look more professional than trying to wrap a screw IMO. And solid wire sucks.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

brian john said:


> STA CONS crimp connectors the way to go in my opinion.


Are these what you are talking about..

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/se...kon+terminal&gclid=COSG_pLHgqICFRRM5QodeFa5GA


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

10-12 AWG #10 stud fork terminal or lock fork terminal

http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=10RC10FL


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> 10-12 AWG #10 stud fork terminal or lock fork terminal
> 
> http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=10RC10FL


That is what I used for the receptacles, but if you fold over the #12 for the ground, it won't fit


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> That is what I used for the receptacles, but if you fold over the #12 for the ground, it won't fit


 Why are you folding the wire?


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Strip the conductor, Reverse twist the stranding, make your hooks. Works great! Save on Stak- ons.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> That is what I used for the receptacles, but if you fold over the #12 for the ground, it won't fit


Truthfully I do not like using these for device EGC and only resort to them if I have to. 96.8765% of the receptacles I use can accommodate 12 stranded without a problem.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> Why are you folding the wire?


If I cut it, I can't use a terminal for (2) ends of the wire, then I have to pigtail it


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Skin it midspan and wrap it around the terminal if you're looping through.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Truthfully I do not like using these for device EGC and only resort to them if I have to. 96.8765% of the receptacles I use can accommodate 12 stranded without a problem.


It is only the ground screws that are a PIA because they don't have clamp terminals like GFI's


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> If I cut it, I can't use a terminal for (2) ends of the wire, then I have to pigtail it


 I follow. I always pigtail, that's the way I was taught.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> It is only the ground screws that are a PIA because they don't have clamp terminals like GFI's


I know, but I can make it work with the screw unless it is one of the very cheep ones that has almost no head on the screws.

Like these ones, the ground screw heads are very small.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> When I must, Leviton seems to make the most affordable backwire receptacles. I'd rather just plan on pulling solid to the device circuits, though, and use the cheap receptacles.
> 
> I did a job in Feb for the Defense Information Systems Agency (bunch of cloak and dagger computer geeks), and they have stranded right in their spec. Whatever. I can play by your rules. Stranded MC costs a lot more, if you ever wondered.


I just got a quote for a 250' coil of stranded 12/2 mc was about $130

~Matt


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Skin it midspan and wrap it around the terminal if you're looping through.


That is what I was doing when I noticed the wire coming off the screw and it was tight before I pushed it into the box, I checked 

I think when you more the wire around, the strands come off from under the screw.

There are no "tabs" to keep that from happening


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I have seen more no power situations from bad crimp ons than stripping it back a little and not letting the insulation come off.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> I have seen more no power situations from bad crimp ons than stripping it back a little and not letting the insulation come off.


Well there are professionals and slackers and one can never account for slackers.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

brian john said:


> Well there are professionals and slackers and one can never account for slackers.


That's true, 

when I first moved to CA I got ridiculed for not using crimps.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> I have seen more no power situations from bad crimp ons than stripping it back a little and not letting the insulation come off.


 I have seen more no power issues from bad wirenut joints than from bad crimps.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

mattsilkwood said:


> I have seen more no power issues from bad wirenut joints than from bad crimps.


Definitely, that's 98% of them right there.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

I never wrap stranded unless I absolutely have to. It's against code I believe. We just cut the green screw off a groundtail and use that.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

RUSSIAN said:


> I never wrap stranded unless I absolutely have to. It's against code I believe. We just cut the green screw off a groundtail and use that.


 


Against the code? Got an article number? 
It's legal to do and is done everyday.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

RUSSIAN said:


> I never wrap stranded unless I absolutely have to. It's against code I believe. We just cut the green screw off a groundtail and use that.



Another well trained IBEW member.:thumbup:


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Like I said, I believe. It must be a local city code. In all my years of non-union and union training I have never been told it was ok to do. Does it get done? yes, I've even done it and been scolded for doing so.
Bob, you can take your snide remarks and shove them up your ass, you don't know me, the city I work in or the local I work in.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> Like I said, I believe. It must be a local city code.............


Help an old geezer out, sonny........ where, exactly, did you say that? :001_huh:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Another well trained IBEW member.:thumbup:


hahahaha nice post #4000

~Matt


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> Like I said, I believe. It must be a local city code. In all my years of non-union and union training I have never been told it was ok to do. Does it get done? yes, I've even done it and been scolded for doing so.
> Bob, you can take your snide remarks and shove them up your ass, you don't know me, the city I work in or the local I work in.


I know that it is completly to code to wrap stranded in your city, as well as all the cities surrounding it. :thumbsup:

I thought you went to school 2 times a week to learn about this stuff.

~Matt


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Help an old geezer out, sonny........ where, exactly, did you say that? :001_huh:


I didn't in the first post...
In the second post when I restated that I "thought" is was code, I referenced that it could be a local code, which may also not be true. I never stated anything as fact and fail to see why 3 people have hostility towards what I stated

Oh that's right, it's cause I'm part of an organization that you despise. Oh well, I'll gladly enjoy better pay and benefits, while working on better, safer jobs, knowing I'll have a better retirement then I could have in the nonunion sector of my area:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Post 1:



RUSSIAN said:


> I never wrap stranded unless I absolutely have to. It's against code I believe. We just cut the green screw off a groundtail and use that.



Post 2:



RUSSIAN said:


> Like I said, I believe. It must be a local city code. In all my years of non-union and union training I have never been told it was ok to do. Does it get done? yes, I've even done it and been scolded for doing so.
> Bob, you can take your snide remarks and shove them up your ass, you don't know me, the city I work in or the local I work in.



Post 3:



RUSSIAN said:


> I didn't in the first post...
> In the second post when I restated that I "thought" is was code, I referenced that it could be a local code, which may also not be true. I never stated anything as fact and fail to see why 3 people have hostility towards what I stated...


No hostility here. I was just wondering where you stated it. It's that simple.



RUSSIAN said:


> ......Oh that's right, it's cause I'm part of an organization that you despise. Oh well, I'll gladly enjoy better pay and benefits, while working on better, safer jobs, knowing I'll have a better retirement then I could have in the nonunion sector of my area:laughing:


Where did I ever state I despise whatever organization you're a part of? Did someone piss in your Cheerios this morning or what?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

RUSSIAN said:


> I'll gladly enjoy better pay and benefits, while working on better, safer jobs,


How are the jobs safer when you do not even know basic code rules?


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## david wise (Feb 17, 2010)

I use sta-cons. GO FLYERS


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> That is what I was doing when I noticed the wire coming off the screw and it was tight before I pushed it into the box, I checked
> 
> I think when you more the wire around, the strands come off from under the screw.
> 
> There are no "tabs" to keep that from happening


You don't need tabs. Try twisting the wire counter-clockwise (backwards from the way it comes twisted) tightly and then wrap it around the screw clockwise, just as you normally would. It won't come undone and will stay under the screw almost as good as a solid wire.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> How are the jobs safer when you do not even know basic code rules?


My apologies to all the code experts here that i don't know all the nuances of the code, but I would hardly call it basic. It's a common misconception that wrapping stranded around a terminal screw is against code around here.
As far as safety goes, yes I work on much safer jobs now(again your snide comments are unneeded). The larger shops cant afford accidents and have a lot to lose, they take great measures to ensure safety.
I was swapping breakers in a hot 120/208 panel as a first year apprentice in a non-union shop:no:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

RUSSIAN said:


> My apologies to all the code experts here that i don't know all the nuances of the code, but I would hardly call it basic.


You don't think one of the most common electrical tasks (terminating a wire to a device) is basic? 




> It's a common misconception that wrapping stranded around a terminal screw is against code around here.


Sounds like that 'exceptional' IBEW training needs some help.:laughing:



> The larger shops cant afford accidents and have a lot to lose, they take great measures to ensure safety.


I work for a large shop, we have as much or more training as anyone. We also have a full time safety officer / trainer and a full time code instructor. 



> I was swapping breakers in a hot 120/208 panel as a first year apprentice in a non-union shop:no:


Yeah me too, and at that time (1982) I bet most IBEW workers where working hot as well.

My only point here is you union guys all want us to believe that you are the superior electricians when the real facts are people are people no matter union or non-union. Some people are great electricians some suck. 

We recently lost a large tenant fit out to a union shop because the customer has a commitment to use union labor. I have had to go on the site for other reasons and I took the time to look their work over and I could find nothing that distinguished it from what we would have done.

MC, little pipe, NM and SE temps etc. no better or worse than how we would have done the job.


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## Golden Arc (Apr 28, 2008)

If you don't have a crimp you can always strip the wire back a little bit leaving just a little bit of insulation on the tip so the wires wont spread and then wrap it around the screw.


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

It seems the only people that have problems with stranded wire, are the ones who dont use it everyday. That is all we use for commercial wiring....that is all I have ever used.....


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