# Sleeve or Raceway?



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I do this often for various things:

I come out of the bottom of a panel flush mounted in a drywall garage wall with a piece of romex. I bring the romex into the back of a 4" square box surface mounted on the wall. I run pipe from that box to somewhere else in the garage where I end it into another 4" square box, then come out of the back of that box with romex to go somewhere. 

Between those 2 boxes I usually run THHN. That requires to splices for each conductor and more work.

Can I just run the romex uncut into the box, thru the pipe to the next box, and then out? That would be using it as a sleeve, but it seems more like a raceway.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

...maybe shockdoc has some leftover 3/8" FMC :laughing:


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

HackWork said:


> I do this often for various things:
> 
> I come out of the bottom of a panel flush mounted in a drywall garage wall with a piece of romex. I bring the romex into the back of a 4" square box surface mounted on the wall. I run pipe from that box to somewhere else in the garage where I end it into another 4" square box, then come out of the back of that box with romex to go somewhere.
> 
> ...


:lol:Romex in conduit


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

theres nothing against it in 334.:001_huh:will check farther, but someone willbeat me to it


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes, all day long. Why would you have to splice it unless it went outside, underground or you just plain ran out of wire?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Every zipper home that lands here utilizes 2" sch 40 for as much romex as they can stuff into it to go up to the 2nd floor ....

Note that _'Raceway'_ is definitional, and meant to be enclosed on BOTH ends 

i.e.- captive heat

_'Sleeve_' exists as trade slang, or outside the parameters of the raceway definition in that it is an open conduit


~CS~


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

sorry, but never heard the term zipper home. same as cookie cutter or pre-fab?:001_huh:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

papaotis said:


> sorry, but never heard the term zipper home. same as cookie cutter or pre-fab?:001_huh:


Yeah Papa

'manufactured home' art 550, probably the most '_do as we do,not as the rest of the code says'_ parts of our nec.....

~CS~


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I wouldn't splice it. And someone may even want to use pulling Ls on each end because they're less obtrusive than boxes and look way better. :whistling2:


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## BytheBook (May 29, 2013)

I was turned down once for fill violation of a 12-2 nm in a 1/2" pvc schedule 80 conduit


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

via what article...?

~CS~


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Are you doing this to allow future expansion in the garage?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

TGGT said:


> Are you doing this to allow future expansion in the garage?


No. It's done because homeowners don't mind a pipe along the garage wall and would rather have that than have to make drywall repairs.

Think about a typical garage with the panel flush mounted in the front by the garage door. Now the customer wants an inlet on the back of the house, so running a pipe on the wall 2' off the floor around to the back of the garage is the best option.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

How would the EMT be grounded?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

SteveBayshore said:


> How would the EMT be grounded?


If its a sleeve then it's not required to be grounded.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

So conduit in between two boxes is a sleeve and doesn't have to be grounded?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

HackWork said:


> If its a sleeve then it's not required to be grounded.


huh?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

SteveBayshore said:


> So conduit in between two boxes is a sleeve and doesn't have to be grounded?


I am asking if its a sleeve or raceway. What do you think and why?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Celtic said:


> huh?


If it's a sleeve then it's not required to be grounded.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

250.86 _exception 2._ 

If it's a sleeve only providing protection of for a cable assembly it does not have to be grounded.

I don't see how it's not a sleeve.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> 250.86 _exception 2._
> 
> If it's a sleeve only providing protection of for a cable assembly it does not have to be grounded.
> 
> I don't see how it's not a sleeve.


I'm on the fence on this issue. With boxes on each end it sure does sound like a raceway. However with the cable assembly going through it, it's only been used as a sleeve.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

All the more reason to use elbows or LBs and it looks cleaner.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I'm on the fence on this issue. With boxes on each end it sure does sound like a raceway. However with the cable assembly going through it, it's only been used as a sleeve.





Big John said:


> All the more reason to use elbows or LBs and it looks cleaner.



Give them an outlet under the panel in that first 4S...go for the upsell


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> All the more reason to use elbows or LBs and it looks cleaner.


That's true.

I was using boxes because I was splicing. 

So if I use LBs, does everyone agree it's a sleeve and I could run the romex directly thru it?


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> That's true.
> 
> I was using boxes because I was splicing.
> 
> So if I use LBs, does everyone agree it's a sleeve and I could run the romex directly thru it?


I'm not a big fan of Romex in any conduit in general and I'm less of a fan of LB's or pulling L's . If you're already putting conduit in , why not try to sell them on the upgradability that the box offers ? Who doesn't want more convenience outlets ? Raised cover , device and more money for you .


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drumnut08 said:


> I'm not a big fan of Romex in any conduit in general and I'm less of a fan of LB's or pulling L's . If you're already putting conduit in , why not try to sell them on the upgradability that the box offers ? Who doesn't want more convenience outlets ? Raised cover , device and more money for you .


I'm just looking to get a wire from A to B in the least expensive way possible.

If they are looking for outlets on the wall I will be happy to pipe it in, but that's not the case.


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I'm just looking to get a wire from A to B in the least expensive way possible.
> 
> If they are looking for outlets on the wall I will be happy to pipe it in, but that's not the case.


Well , if that's the case , I don't see a problem with doing what you propose and trying to do away with the boxes . It's definitely a only a sleeve then . In sure an inspector somewhere would have a problem with it , but you and I know , it's perfectly fine . If you want to get around the questionable raceway bonding , run the sleeve in PVC .


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

If inspectors have an issue with it , they should submit a code proposal and wait for ten years to get it thru.


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Need to clarify what a "short section of conduit" is. Is one length of conduit considered a shore section? I definitely think that if it is more than one length of conduit, it's not a short section any more.
Also, where is the exception that doesn't require you to ground the 4" square boxes?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

the_ 'shortest section'_ sold would be 10' Steve


~CS~


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> the_ 'shortest section'_ sold would be 10' Steve
> 
> 
> ~CS~


You can buy EMT and RMC in 20' lengths:










http://www.wheatland.com/electrical-conduit/20-foot-emt-rigid-electrical-conduit


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Bending a 20' stick could be _interesting _Celtic.....~CS~


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

It's a raceway


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

If I go that route, I'll just pipe it into panel so other conductors can be run thru it later. On the lowdown cheap, I just sleeve it in pvc , and punch it into the wall under or above the panel.


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