# 2017 changes-- Torque Tools



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

For the new torque settings enforcement in the new codes coming out I am curious...

Do you currently use torque tools for equipment/lugs? If so what kinds and why?

Are you looking to purchase any? What ones and why?

I want to start looking for a good brand but don't want to spend 300 dollars on a dust collector or something someone else here has had and had bad experience with. Hopefully this will help us all find some good ones to buy.

I know there are some older threads on this but I am seriously lazy and don't want to revive a dead thread.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is a non-issue. There is no way to prove it. Going back to re-torque in front of the inspector will increase the torque too much, so that can't be done.

When something needs to be torqued, I typically use a sharpie to draw a line across any screw, nut, or bolt and it's mating surface so that it looks like I torqued it. 

Now send me half of whatever you were going to spend on torquing tools. Your welcome.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

I'll sell you my whole set for $275.00


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## kered (Mar 27, 2012)

Inspectors here will want to see that electrician who's install is being certified has a torque screwdriver in their tool box. Also we need to have these screwdrivers calibrated annually & will have to present evidence to back this up. 

We've had requirements for a while now to torque connections, MCB's (breakers) & like to the manufacturers torque settings. But up until recently there was no real concerted effort by the inspectors to check that this was done. 

While we don't have every installation inspected, as we operate a "self certification" system here, there are spot checks done on a reasonably regular basis by RECI, our electrical installation governing body. There's a new generation of inspectors coming into the field now & they are getting quite sticky on the details. Hence, our electrical wholesalers (supply houses) are now stocking a range of torque screwdrivers & tools, as electricians are scrambling to have these as part of their tool kits.

In answer to the OP's question about brand & type, what our guys are using is the Wiha TorqueVario range.

Klauke also make a good range of torque tools.


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

I had some Home Depot credit recently and picked up this one. 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-4-in-Hex-Inch-Torque-Screw-Driver-H4DTRQ/204772217

Haven't had a chance to use it yet. I'll report back when I do, but at least it's in the tool bag in case an inspector asks.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

It's very easy to make a toque log
Just list each piece of gear
And each breaker.
Make a column showing the torque values for each termination
Make a checkbox for field use.

Make a slash mark on each lug as you go.

It's sounds complicated but it's a very repetitious sheet to produce.

It's also good to pull out on an inspector that's in a hurry.
They usually go running.


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## Jhellwig (Jun 18, 2014)

If they are going to enforce it Milwaukee will have an m12 torqing screwdriver shortly.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

I torque the big stuff only, and that's not even all the time. Just when I feel like justifying the torque wrench I have....:whistling2:

I'm not torqueing a #12 on a 20 amp breaker or a device screw. I don't care what the manufacturers want or require. Unless I see one of my terminations fail I'm going to keep doing it freehand. 

Some people go overboard with torqueing everything in my opinion, while others think they need to use Hulk strength on a small set screw lug?!?! Those guys are the ones that need to torque everything!!!


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Cow said:


> I torque the big stuff only, and that's not even all the time. Just when I feel like justifying the torque wrench I have....:whistling2:
> 
> I'm not torqueing a #12 on a 20 amp breaker or a device screw. I don't care what the manufacturers want or require. Unless I see one of my terminations fail I'm going to keep doing it freehand.
> 
> Some people go overboard with torqueing everything in my opinion, while others think they need to use Hulk strength on a small set screw lug?!?! Those guys are the ones that need to torque everything!!!



This has been my motto. Someone on here likes the TUIS method....tighten until it squeaks.....
I like German spec, Gudentight.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Klein 57034 torque driver is my weapon of choice.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

You prefer that over...say....a wiha? If price wasn't a factor I mean.


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## millelec (Nov 20, 2010)

TheLivingBubba said:


> I had some Home Depot credit recently and picked up this one.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-4-in-Hex-Inch-Torque-Screw-Driver-H4DTRQ/204772217
> 
> Haven't had a chance to use it yet. I'll report back when I do, but at least it's in the tool bag in case an inspector asks.


is what I have. comes with its calibration cert, and just used it on a meter socket. no complaints :thumbsup:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

http://www.kctoolco.com/wiha-torque...YIIKwW9X8-JGU3Yc6N5GCWSnoYQPGBtueQaAm0R8P8HAQ

Someone buy me this and I'll be your best friend.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> You prefer that over...say....a wiha? If price wasn't a factor I mean.


Yes Sir, I also like the new one with the plastic handle a 57032 also. For 3x the price you can get a Snap-on.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

But I "WANT" wiha..... I'll probably get what you mentioned though. Never going to need a 400 dollar one.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TheLivingBubba said:


> I had some Home Depot credit recently and picked up this one.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-4-in-Hex-Inch-Torque-Screw-Driver-H4DTRQ/204772217
> 
> Haven't had a chance to use it yet. I'll report back when I do, but at least it's in the tool bag in case an inspector asks.


WOW, great price and a lifetime warranty....not sure what to say.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

We've traditionally paid attention to torque specs on larger gear , but much larger gear specs insist on an _annual _torque check.

So, unless the_ 'powers that be'_ pass jobs with an annual shutdown /re inspection clause this whole code is>>>










~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Majewski said:


> But I "WANT" wiha..... I'll probably get what you mentioned though. Never going to need a 400 dollar one.


I can't remember spending close to $100 for a torque wrench. I haven't been challenged by an inspector for a cal tag. Good thing. The ones from the auto parts store don't come with a tag.
Interestingly, I usually make up bigger terminations with my 1/4" 18 volt Milwaukee impact using a 3/8" socket adaptor and a 3/8" Allen Wrench set.
I then check them with a torque wrench and slash mark the terminal screw.
If I crimp on the lug, I hit the bolt with the impact and use the torque wrench.
Also, it's a little sloppy but I write the touque value on the terminal if it has space. 42. 38......... 4,8,15,16,23, and 42


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Is the calibration supposed to be third party or are you allowed to do it yourself? The calibration will be a great money maker for someone, unless you're allowed to do it yourself. 

Verifying that a connector has been torqued to a certain setting is just about impossible, but calibrating a torque wrench is pretty simple if you think about it...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> Is the calibration supposed to be third party or are you allowed to do it yourself? The calibration will be a great money maker for someone, unless you're allowed to do it yourself.
> 
> Verifying that a connector has been torqued to a certain setting is just about impossible, but calibrating a torque wrench is pretty simple if you think about it...


Just like meters they have to be done to NIST standards and I've always seen them sent out, never heard of DIY.


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## NukeWorker (Aug 27, 2016)

We seem to be going torque happy. Whatever happened to "skill of the craft"? I've made hundreds if not thousands of electrical connections, and have yet to have one fail.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

NukeWorker said:


> We seem to be going torque happy. Whatever happened to "skill of the craft"? I've made hundreds if not thousands of electrical connections, and have yet to have one fail.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That you know of! Lol jk


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have a pair of Wiha torque screwdrivers and a Burndy torque wrench. If I send them out for calibration, if they are out, can they be adjusted, or do you just buy another?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Majewski said:


> That you know of! Lol jk


*Great minds!*


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> I have a pair of Wiha torque screwdrivers and a Burndy torque wrench. If I send them out for calibration, if they are out, can they be adjusted, or do you just buy another?


I've had them done through my employers. Give this place a call:
IN-CA Hudson, NH 603-883-5558


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

NukeWorker said:


> We seem to be going torque happy. Whatever happened to "skill of the craft"? I've made hundreds if not thousands of electrical connections, and have yet to have one fail.


I ain't convinced that torquing should be a code requirement, but I do think most connections only work because they are forgiving, not because most guys are extra skilled at making them.

A lot of people, myself included, just turn to some idea of what "tight" should feel like, which is often much greater than manufacturer's torque spec.

That said, doing thermography I see a ton of poor connections. It really makes me wonder how many would be avoided if more terminations were made by-the-book.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> I ain't convinced that torquing should be a code requirement, but I do think most connections only work because they are forgiving, not because most guys are extra skilled at making them.
> 
> A lot of people, myself included, just turn to some idea of what "tight" should feel like, *which is often much greater than manufacturer's torque spec*.
> 
> That said, *doing thermography I see a ton of poor connections*. It really makes me wonder how many would be avoided if more terminations were made by-the-book.


So those poor connections are the result of over tightening? If so, is that from the lug crimping and cutting the conductor strands, or that cold flow thingie?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

HackWork said:


> So those poor connections are the result of over tightening? If so, is that from the lug crimping and cutting the conductor strands, or that cold flow thingie?


Without knowing how they were made up, I can't say. I do know I've watched a lot of guys try to fix high resistance connections on the spot by just tightening them more and A) usually the connectors are already tight B) just tightening them doesn't fix the existing high resistance.

The connections need to be separated, cleaned/cut back, and reterminated. 

I think often by the time I catch them much of the resistance is because of damage to the metal from heating, so it's too late in the game to say how torquing would change that.


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## OSSElectric (Sep 28, 2015)

Ive pretty always torqued anything that required a wrench to terminate. By screwdriver? If the customer or spec requires it, but it has been pretty rare in my experience.

Ive gotten a couple of snapon wrenches off ebay. Retail over $300 but picked them up around $100 a piece


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

OSSElectric said:


> Ive pretty always torqued anything that required a wrench to terminate. By screwdriver? If the customer or spec requires it, but it has been pretty rare in my experience.
> 
> Ive gotten a couple of snapon wrenches off ebay. Retail over $300 but picked them up around $100 a piece


I've done commissioning work on several brands of equipment, when you are charging to check it all and record it, you do it all to spec.


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## NukeWorker (Aug 27, 2016)

Seen quite a few bad connections in troubleshooting problems. Most of these were simply too loose, bad crimping and/or preparation, or oxide buildup. Thermography is a great tool! So is de-ox paste (where called for, in moderation). We still use a lot of fuses as circuit protection (old school, but works). Another problem area I've seen using thermography is the connections between the fuse barrels and the clips. Can't fix this or bad switch contacts with a torque value.
Not saying torquing is terrible. Simply not the solution for half-assed workmanship elsewhere! If the customer calls for it, then by all means fulfill the contract.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Klein 57034 torque driver is my weapon of choice.


 Have the same one, it's getting pretty old, I checked it against a calibrated digital torque wrench and it was spot on.
I'll have to take some 000 wool to it and make it shiny like that picture, toss a calibration sticker on it just in case an inspector asks. Lol it's in our Canadian code to follow recommended torque settings, I have yet to see one near a resi panel, only ever see torque equipment on large jobs. And that's just one sparky bragging to the other sparkies that he is using one. 

One thing that people learn when they use them.... 

They've been over tightening stuff. 

K I'll make a confession, 

I tried using torque screwdriver(s) and it just never "felt" tight enough, so I'd go over 'em again by hand. 

Now the screwdriver is in the truck just for show. :thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

daks said:


> Have the same one, it's getting pretty old, I checked it against a calibrated digital torque wrench and it was spot on.
> I'll have to take some 000 wool to it and make it shiny like that picture, toss a calibration sticker on it just in case an inspector asks. Lol it's in our Canadian code to follow recommended torque settings, I have yet to see one near a resi panel, only ever see torque equipment on large jobs. And that's just one sparky bragging to the other sparkies that he is using one.
> 
> One thing that people learn when they use them....
> ...


I've had mine sent out for calibration but never heard it was out. I used it for commissioning new equipment installs. I have worked for companies that have also sent meters out for calibration and never felt they weren't accurate either. It seems like a money maker for the companies that do the calibrations. I have a pretty strong hand and always fear snapping something off or stripping threads so I like the torque screwdriver for critical parts.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Breaker wise....I'm only worried about over tightening when it's AL....which is almost never.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

Majewski said:


> This has been my motto. Someone on here likes the TUIS method....tighten until it squeaks.....
> I like German spec, Gudentight.


or the english spec "tighter n ell":laughing:

believe it or not that one was introduced by one of my british friends


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

So is everyone going to buy a torque screwdriver and keep it on the truck just for ****s and giggles? This is something that will get used one time. I will probably harbor freight it.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

9 times out of 10 come final time the power is on and everything is up and running . So do you think inspector man is really going to check torque in a hot panel . Inrush current can be a bi-ch .


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I have a 1/2" torque wrench, with a 3 ft handle. I use a reducer down to 3/8", and then down to 1/4". I then use a 1/4" bit adapter to use screwdriver bits. I torque all my receptacle screws with it.

How many newton-meters in a quart anyway?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

catsparky1 said:


> 9 times out of 10 come final time the power is on and everything is up and running . So do you think inspector man is really going to check torque in a hot panel . Inrush current can be a bi-ch .


The inspector isn't an electrician and doesn't have the right to do electrical work and torque anything.

Also, AFAIK, you can't check if something is properly torqued by using a torque tool on it. The only way to do it is to loosen it and then retorque it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Also, AFAIK, you can't check if something is properly torqued by using a torque tool on it. The only way to do it is to loosen it and then retorque it.


This is correct! :thumbsup:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

The solution, then, is to leave everything loose and have the inspector come in and torque everything down.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Burndy has a really good PDF you can download. 

The City of Palo Alto requires you to torque all of your connections, then in front of the inspector you are to re-torque those connections. 

I knew that they were wrong in that requirement and found and downloaded this to show them. We had a nice argument, but they stood firm in their stupidity. There is a ton of good information in the article.

Check out page 28 in regards to torquing...

https://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent//burndy/documentation/BURNDY_Connector_Theory.pdf


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

HackWork said:


> The inspector isn't an electrician and doesn't have the right to do electrical work and torque anything.
> 
> Also, AFAIK, you can't check if something is properly torqued by using a torque tool on it. The only way to do it is to loosen it and then retorque it.


Did you not listen to what was said ? quit being a **** .


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

catsparky1 said:


> Did you not listen to what was said ?


 Yes. But you are not being very clear in this post.



> quit being a **** .


But I enjoy being a ****.


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