# Advantages of going non-union.



## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> I had my local interview on the 10th and won't hear anything until all interviews are completed. According to a handout I grabbed at the union we are supposed to receive a letter sometime in July providing the date of the drug screen or stating that we didn't make the cut. I know it's only been a little over a week but I was just burned by a sheet metal union I had tested with so I want to hedge my bets. I know the advantages of being in a union i.e. better wages and benefits and strength in numbers but what are the advantages of working in a non-union shop?


You wouldn't be waiting for a July answer. Sometimes it's easier and quicker to find new employment. You're generally not hired for a project but for permanent employment. You're not put on a "list."
That being said, if i was to start over, I'd have gone the union route.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Finding non-union employment is definitely easier. :laughing:


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## No Shorts (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm not sure anymore. Been with an open shop for 8 years. And I've been told at 3:30 pm go get some rest and come back a 12:00 am you're doing a shut down. A shut down that the knew about for days.... They tell you YOU are going to work nights for awhile. Or things are tight here so I don't think your gonna see a raise this year. I had a ops manager ask my helper if he was to stupid to run a shovel. Needless to say I've have an interview with a union contractor Tuesday. Then if I get the job I'll be sworn in two months so wish me luck... Open isn't good for rights, pay, vacation, insurance, or retirement.... So.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Dillinger4 said:


> *Advantages of going non-union.*



None!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I suppose being outta work, it does not matter.....~CS~


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

No Shorts said:


> I'm not sure anymore. Been with an open shop for 8 years. And I've been told at 3:30 pm go get some rest and come back a 12:00 am you're doing a shut down. A shut down that the knew about for days.... They tell you YOU are going to work nights for awhile. Or things are tight here so I don't think your gonna see a raise this year. I had a ops manager ask my helper if he was to stupid to run a shovel. Needless to say I've have an interview with a union contractor Tuesday. Then if I get the job I'll be sworn in two months so wish me luck... Open isn't good for rights, pay, vacation, insurance, or retirement.... So.


Pretty much everything you described can happen in the union. You are working construction not at Victoria Secretes. 

So if your company is truely havig a tough year, your answer is screw them? Give me mine? 

I have worked both open shop and union and goood men can negoiate good benefits. IN MY AREA there are good open shops and lousy union shops and the other way around. There are many excellent union shops and skunky open shops.

As for the helper shovel incident if that bugged him tell him he would be better off working with Caitlyn Jenner. That is a compliment to some of the stuff he will hear in the coure of his career if she can man up.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Bad Electrician said:


> As for the helper shovel incident if that bugged him tell him he would be better off working with Caitlyn Jenner. That is a compliment to some of the stuff he will hear in the coure of his career if she can man up.


You reek of hate.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Dillinger4 said:


> Finding non-union employment is definitely easier. :laughing:


And for good reason.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

I'm not so worried about getting jerked in regard to having to work additional hours. My last job I worked 3:45 pm to 11:45 am and would often get suck to work the night shift until 7:45 am because some bozo would call out sick. This would happen often and sometimes on the weekend with me already being on overtime. Hey if you want to pay me $45.54 an hour then go ahead. I guess if I don't get in this year I can always try for an open shop and reapply at my local next year.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> You reek of hate.


 That's not hate, it's plain talking.....something that's becoming rare in the entitled generation. Personally, as far as pussies go, I'd rather eat em than work with em.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

stuiec said:


> That's not hate, it's plain talking.....something that's becoming rare in the entitled generation. Personally, as far as pussies go, I'd rather eat em than work with em.


 With or without a nice cold beer :shifty:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

The only advantage in non union is well rounded experience, as for pay, benefits its a loser.


Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Shockdoc said:


> The only advantage in non union is well rounded experience, as for pay, benefits its a loser.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


Yeah I think if things don't work out I'm going to go for something else. I can't see spending ten grand at a local technical school for a electric course that's going to last a year just to get some experience so I can bring that to the union to maybe get hired to attend another five years of apprentice school or just get shafted and end up working for ten dollars an hour digging ditches.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

stuiec said:


> That's not hate, it's plain talking.....something that's becoming rare in the entitled generation. Personally, as far as pussies go, I'd rather eat em than work with em.


The entitled generation is slowly retiring/dying off.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

TGGT said:


> The entitled generation is slowly retiring/dying off.


I was referring to the younger generation raised by the 'everyone gets a medal so no one has bad feelings' parents.


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> Yeah I think if things don't work out I'm going to go for something else. I can't see spending ten grand at a local technical school for a electric course that's going to last a year just to get some experience so I can bring that to the union to maybe get hired to attend another five years of apprentice school or just get shafted and end up working for ten dollars an hour digging ditches.


You shouldn't being paying for your apprenticeship school Union or non.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I paid for all my schooling , testing, tools, uniforms, trucks, shop, etc.

I've also survived on my own through a number of economic bubbles

I feel i'm '_entitled_' as an EC , but in a far more guttural way

We like to eat our own, much like sharks who'll turn on those weaker 

And....we've a big fat toothy smile as we do....

~CS~


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Mshow1323 said:


> You shouldn't being paying for your apprenticeship school Union or non.


There really is no other way that I can think of to get experience aside from going back to school. Something which I really do not want to do unless it's not out of my pocket. I've been through enough school both technical and college. :blink: 

Just about every job I see in my area is asking for two to four years experience just to be hired as an apprentice.

Here is a perfect example.

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/trd/5069259219.html


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> There really is no other way that I can think of to get experience aside from going back to school. Something which I really don't want to do unless it's in a union. I've been through enough school both technical and college. :blink:
> 
> Just about every job I see in my area is asking for two to four years experience just to be hired as an apprentice.
> 
> ...


The best thing I ever did was join the military. The GI Bill paid my tuition and living expenses for two years of trade school.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

bkmichael65 said:


> The best thing I ever did was join the military. The GI Bill paid my tuition and living expenses for two years of trade school.


That's what my wife's son will be doing which I think is a good idea because the kid would never make much of himself doing what he is doing now which is pretty much hanging around his girlfriend and smoking his vaporizer. :no:


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

When I worked non-Union, one of the two companies I worked for would reimburse for classes taken. They were a mid sized industrial contractor out of Somerville. They were a great company to work for. Good benefits great co-workers. I just was never going to be happy with the pay. 

I think you had to have a passing grade to get reimbursed. I don't think to many guys took him up on it.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Take what you can get for now. But keep trying to get in the union or with a company that has a state approved apprenticeship program that is paid by the company. You are doing yourself a disservice by not doing so. IMO, any company worth a grain of salt whether union, non-union, large shop or small shop, should be registered with the state providing apprenticeship to its employees.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> I had my local interview on the 10th and won't hear anything until all interviews are completed. According to a handout I grabbed at the union we are supposed to receive a letter sometime in July providing the date of the drug screen or stating that we didn't make the cut. I know it's only been a little over a week *but I was just burned by a sheet metal union* I had tested with so I want to hedge my bets. I know the advantages of being in a union i.e. better wages and benefits and strength in numbers but what are the advantages of working in a non-union shop?


Details please.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

99cents said:


> Details please.


Nah I was just a little pissed off about the wording in the letter. "After calculating your educational background, work experience, and examination scores you overall score did not rank high enough to be accepted into the program at this time."


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

Dillinger4 said:


> Nah I was just a little pissed off about the wording in the letter. "After calculating your educational background, work experience, and examination scores you overall score did not rank high enough to be accepted into the program at this time."


How about the wording from the draft board years ago.
"You will report to the Induction Center for your pre-induction physical". 
The word "please" was never used and it wasn't a suggestion! :laughing:


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

retiredsparktech said:


> How about the wording from the draft board years ago.
> "You will report to the Induction Center for your pre-induction physical".
> The word "please" was never used and it wasn't a suggestion! :laughing:


Sounds like paramilitary organization.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

John Valdes said:


> You reek of hate.


John:

It is called humor something those on either end of the political spectrum
seem to miss. When we lose our sense of humor or the ability to express humor we are doomed.

As Bill Mahr said, we can joke about Kim's ass and everybody laughs, but make a joke abut her step-fathers tits and you are evil.

Laugh and the world laughs with you,whine and moan about jokes and everyone things you are missing out on a good time.

Lighten up John.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I've been every type of worker. Union shop, merit shop, side jobber, contractor/owner. I can't say that the financial or life benefits (when stress level is considered) are any better in any version of how you earn a living doing electrical work. I've sort of come to the conclusion that you'd be best advised to pick one, throw your heart and soul into it, and don't worry about what anyone else is doing.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> Nah I was just a little pissed off about the wording in the letter. "After calculating your educational background, work experience, and examination scores you overall score did not rank high enough to be accepted into the program at this time."


Wow, if the International Sisterhood of Tin Bashers turned you down, how do you think you will do with the IBEW?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dillinger4 said:


> Nah I was just a little pissed off about the wording in the letter. "After calculating your educational background, work experience, and examination scores you overall score did not rank high enough to be accepted into the program at this time."


Wow, if the International Sisterhood of Tin Bashers turned you down, how do you think you will do with the IBEW?


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

I think I would do fine in the IBEW.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Dillinger4 said:


> I think I would do fine in the IBEW.


As Marc said it is about you and what you want to do, you can make it if you apply youtself.

Just apply yourself and ignore all the BS.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

The Tin Bashers :laughing: didn't accept me because I think there was just too many people vying for a limited amount of slots. Two other people I know took the same exam the same day and received the same letter.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

It depends what type of worker you are and where you want to end up in life.

If your a go-getter, and want to continue pushing yourself mentally and really want to strive for the best you can be and earn as much as you are worth, don't join the union. 

If your the opposite, you need to join the union to survive and make a living.

FWIW, been there, done that twice in my life for two different unions. 
Went non-union

I'm 50, and can retire anytime I want. My mind won't let me though....


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Helmut said:


> It depends what type of worker you are and where you want to end up in life.
> 
> If your a go-getter, and want to continue pushing yourself mentally and really want to strive for the best you can be and earn as much as you are worth, don't join the union.
> 
> ...


So to sum it up, smart hard workers go non-union and lazy slackers go union.

Nice. :no:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

dawgs said:


> So to sum it up, smart hard workers go non-union and lazy slackers go union.
> 
> Nice. :no:


I think we have everything everywhere. Good, bad indifferent, slackers, azz busters, sleepers, hacks and gravy soppers, using biscuits to suck up the easy work. 

Run a one man shop, 1000 man shop, union, open shop, side jobbers and part time contractors we are all the same and different. JUST BE SAFE, worry about yourself, your quality of work and good lock.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

dawgs said:


> So to sum it up, smart hard workers go non-union and lazy slackers go union.
> 
> Nice. :no:


You read what you wanted too.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Helmut said:


> You read what you wanted too.


I read what you wrote. Just summed it up.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

stuiec said:


> That's not hate, it's plain talking.....something that's becoming rare in the entitled generation. Personally, as far as pussies go, I'd rather eat em than work with em.


I agree!......:thumbsup:



Bad Electrician said:


> John:
> 
> It is called humor something those on either end of the political spectrum
> seem to miss. When we lose our sense of humor or the ability to express humor we are doomed.
> ...


I actually thought about deleting the comment, but my point was your constant love affair with Bruce Jenner or whomever she or he is now.
What? like two threads on gender?
Seems there is more to it than just a joke when you say it?

I saw the Bill Mahr show and laughed pretty hard that night.
The joke was very funny too.
When he told it, I thought about my post.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Well first off.. you posted this in the middle of the afternoon so you either work odd shifts or your sitting @ home.. You claim to have been a member of 2 different Union's and the IBEW is a 4 year program and there is a lot more to learn after your apprenticeship is over, so you spent what 8 years in training and 2 years with each Union perfecting your craft and knowledge base? That puts you early to mid 30's and needing to get going... Now 15 years later you claim your a millionaire? Hahahahahaha:whistling2::whistling2:
Here are some FACTS fellows... If you retire at 50.. you need no less than 12 years income and then your SS is going to SUCK and you will need Health Insurance. Any Moron claiming NOT ME to insurance should be put on your ignore list! He's a BSing IDIOT .. So to live MY LIFE In SW Fla. On The Water ( GOM) in a modest 2000 sqft 3 2 2 waterfront pool home with a few toys.. you need NO LESS THAN $70,000.00 In Combined Interest and SS. ( Remember you dont have a Pension you are Mr Big Shot.. Hell Bechtel is running scared from you hahaahaha) So how much do you need in personal savings / CASH MONEY? Well Remember This.... Your Risk Tolerance is almost ZERO! Unless you aspire to be a greeter at Walscum.. so the best you can hope for is between 6.5 and 8% and 8 is pushing the edge. SO HOW MUCH do you need .. ANSWER.... $1,000,000.00 and to put that away over the last 15+ Years you needed to set aside after taxes.. NO LESS THAN $60,000.00 a year EVERY YEAR... :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:


Helmut said:


> It depends what type of worker you are and where you want to end up in life.
> 
> If your a go-getter, and want to continue pushing yourself mentally and really want to strive for the best you can be and earn as much as you are worth, don't join the union.
> 
> ...


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Helmut said:


> It depends what type of worker you are and where you want to end up in life.
> 
> If your a go-getter, and want to continue pushing yourself mentally and really want to strive for the best you can be and earn as much as you are worth, don't join the union.


Precisely... all one need do is look at all those success stories who took this sage advice. Nonunion electricians always make exactly whatever they're worth.



> If your the opposite, you need to join the union to survive and make a living.


Or join the military. Thats where everybody who has very little talent, or no future goes to at the very least, get a 10- point edge on all future civil service exams.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> Well first off.. you posted this in the middle of the afternoon so you either work odd shifts or your sitting @ home..


Have you considered that he might be on lunch and browsing his phone? Or that maybe he is the boss and can do whatever the hell he wants??


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

IslandGuy said:


> Precisely... all one need do is look at all those success stories who took this sage advice. Nonunion electricians always make exactly whatever they're worth.
> 
> Or join the military. Thats where everybody who has very little talent, or no future goes to at the very least, get a 10- point edge on all future civil service exams.


Not true. Electricians always make exactly what they settle for.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> Precisely... all one need do is look at all those success stories who took this sage advice. Nonunion electricians always make exactly whatever they're worth.
> 
> Or join the military. Thats where everybody who has very little talent, or no future goes to at the very least, get a 10- point edge on all future civil service exams.


You make some sweeping uninformed statements. Having been raised in a military family, living on military bases all my life. I meant many highly intelligent motivate people that had a love for their country and thought the military was the path for them. I have had several apprentices over the years that served for one reason love of country. Upon getting out of the military they decided to take up a trade and ended up in the IBEW, these were highly motivated hard working and excelled at their jobs young men.

There are many members here that served and are hardly talentless. 

Where does your disdain come from, where does your narrow thought process come from.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

What good is a U/nonU debate when every big job is proliferated with H1B visa help ?

~CS~


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Well "Petey" ( _can I ask why they call you speedy petey? _) In My 41 years of active service in the IBEW , I can assure it better be on his lunch break or he is FIRED.. and having spent most of my career Running Big JObs.. I doubt it's the owner.. or any other part of the managment team..


Speedy Petey said:


> Have you considered that he might be on lunch and browsing his phone? Or that maybe he is the boss and can do whatever the hell he wants??


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Divecoz said:


> Well "Petey" ( _can I ask why they call you speedy petey? _) In My 41 years of active service in the IBEW , I can assure it better be on his lunch break or he is FIRED.. and having spent most of my career Running Big JObs.. I doubt it's the owner.. or any other part of the managment team..


One of the biggest issues facing American blue collar workers is a us you mentality between the unions and open shops. We should all be working together to strengthen the American Work force. go to any residential project or strip mall or office building and see who is doing the work. Many of those there are illegals forcing ALL WAGES down. 

And guess what politicians on both sides of the argument love it when there is a union open shop fight because we ignore the real issue. All the issues messing with the American middle class.

AS for smarts union or open shop. Some of the best members here are union or open shop and their answers never come with a caveat of we are union or we are open shop. The answers come from knowledgeable electricians trying to help others on either side of the work force line. With no concern of giving away the secret handshake.

You ran big projects and when you got to the DIV 16 Spec that required commissioning or testing or start up of equipment you called a firm like mine. The companies you named I have worked for most of them with my current company.

The funny thing is almost every die in the wool IBEW member that touted how wonderful they were, never post in any electrical topics. As for large project foremen that is a highly developed skill that takes years of honing those skills. But most are excellent at all involved with managing a large project, dealing with all involved but seldom really know anything about basic electricity. Not because they are stupid, but their job is to put trained skilled workers on the job to do the parts of the job that takes those skills.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Divecoz said:


> Well "Petey" ( _can I ask why they call you speedy petey? _) In My 41 years of active service in the IBEW , I can assure it better be on his lunch break or he is FIRED.. and having spent most of my career Running Big JObs.. I doubt it's the owner.. or any other part of the managment team..


But you worked big projects, many members here are with small shops or run small shops, the work mentality is way different. These small shop men actually in general have a larger cross reference of work skills. Not like many large projects where you have pipe men, switchgear men or you are on the wire pulling crew. Which really when it comes down to it is skilled assembly line work. Not taking anything away from these men, just pointing out a fact.

lastly, in testing and maintenance we get involved in the "more technical" aspects of the trade. Often on jobs with workers from ABC schools or IBEW schools after a year or two out of apprenticeship I ask them the Primary and Secondary amperage of a 480 Delta to 208/120 wye transformer and they look baffled. They forget all that schooling and as is human nature retain only what they need to know to get by in their jobs.

Can I ask what state you are from?


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

I am of the HO you both paint with a wide brush.. For the moment I will hold my thoughts there , and just relate my PAST Experiences..I had and continue to have respect , for many of the vets both past and present. I would hazzard to guess and its been 40+ Years, that around 40% of my App. Class were returning Vets.. More than half of those were drafted out of college .. Yep They had to go, they were drafted and Vietnam was RAGGING!! I never saw back then , the Rambo wannebe issues we are ALL Witnessing now , not back then.. BUT!! I will say this... There were better chances of getting a decent paying job when and if you came home, back then..Just about any Vet just about any guy.. could find a job depending I admit, where in America you called home.. ( _*trivia* : its 1972 its my first year as a Full Fledged UNION Journeyman Wireman.. I grossed enough that year to buy 4- Brand New 1972 Corvette Convertibles!!)_ I didnt I was married with a young family but thats how much I made.. Offering those kinds of wages my local was NOT offering App. positions to just any swinging XXXX walking in off the street.. If you scored on one test under a 75% you were on report.. If you had a 2nd in one year you next pay raise was held back for 6 months. If you did it 3 times ? There were 2 options.. They Might freeze your wages for a year and make you take that year over again, or they might drop you from the App. Program.. This was for many_ The Chance Of A Lifetime_... Dont Screw It Up!


Bad Electrician said:


> You make some sweeping uninformed statements. Having been raised in a military family, living on military bases all my life. I meant many highly intelligent motivate people that had a love for their country and thought the military was the path for them. I have had several apprentices over the years that served for one reason love of country. Upon getting out of the military they decided to take up a trade and ended up in the IBEW, these were highly motivated hard working and excelled at their jobs young men.
> 
> There are many members here that served and are hardly talentless.
> 
> Where does your disdain come from, where does your narrow thought process come from.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

I will address your last question first : ) IL. 
You are again NOT GOING TO LIKE WHAT I SAY: 
I can agree with some of what you say and argue with much of it.. I would like to entertain a few foreign to me thoughts you support and see where it goes..
But first , the vast majority of the members of my local and many others are trained at all aspects of our Industry. That may be the case in Non-Union but its not common.. You didnt go through our training program so you are unaware of what Every JW should be capable of.. That said and I assure you we all use the same books and criteria I will admit that every App coming out of every local is NOT a carbon copy. Just like those who Grad.College. People skills and Team Building skills is difficult to learn from a book.. Lets address this question/statement you made with another question as my response.. "_I ask them the Primary and Secondary amperage of a 480 Delta to 208/120 wye transformer and they look baffled." _Maybe you were not clear with what you wanted? Did you want basic transformer theory? I say that because your question was worded in such a way that it sounded like you expected them to pop out with 2 unknown amperages..Going back I went OK OK :thumbsup: But this is something you deal with everyday.. they have been trained and they will recall the formulas maybe with a little prodding from you. But would you rather they had never been trained? Its kind of like riding a bike.. Maybe they should toss at you bending 4" ridgid Pipe with concentric bends blablabla because they just came off 6 months of doing just that..How are you going to do? You are going to SUCK at that job dude. I am going to brag here a little bit, but it supports what I am getting at  .. I was good enough at Cross Country Skiing... 2 forms of Martial Arts and Scuba. ( I was a OWSI for NAUI) and I can saw, anything you honestly LEARNED... not memorized .. will come back to you a lot better and a lot faster than it will for someone with NO Schooling No Practice...  In The Electrical Field and all 3 sports I was paid to Instruct , my rerturning students were One Hell Of A Lot Better at What We Were Doing Than ANY of My New Students.. Give me a break here dude your bragging about NOTHING.. 




Bad Electrician said:


> But you worked big projects, many members here are with small shops or run small shops, the work mentality is way different. These small shop men actually in general have a larger cross reference of work skills. Not like many large projects where you have pipe men, switchgear men or you are on the wire pulling crew. Which really when it comes down to it is skilled assembly line work. Not taking anything away from these men, just pointing out a fact.
> 
> lastly, in testing and maintenance we get involved in the "more technical" aspects of the trade. Often on jobs with workers from ABC schools or IBEW schools after a year or two out of apprenticeship I ask them the Primary and Secondary amperage of a 480 Delta to 208/120 wye transformer and they look baffled. They forget all that schooling and as is human nature retain only what they need to know to get by in their jobs.
> 
> Can I ask what state you are from?


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Divecoz said:


> I will address your last question first : ) IL.
> In The Electrical Field and all 3 sports I was paid to Instruct , my rerturning students were One Hell Of A Lot Better at What We Were Doing Than ANY of My New Students.. Give me a break here dude your bragging about NOTHING..


I do not need to brag.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Bad Electrician said:


> I do not need to brag.


But you are also , as I see it , unwilling to be honest.. You are unwilling to admit the truth.. even when the truths , are basic principles of life...
You and a few others here, claim that "someone" can learn as much from a class or two, at a Vo-tech or Community College ,and from other guys, who learned from other un-schooled guys , just as much as guys who went to a Nationally Accredited School for No Less Than 4 Years and Learned from , were surrounded by , guys who as a group themselves went to 4 years of the same school?


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

IslandGuy;2056345
Or join the military. Thats where everybody who has very little talent said:


> Like every modern era president with the exception of Obama and Clinton. Maybe we should revise JFK's famous quote that only those with no talent or future should ask what they can do for their country?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

4 years? Ibew apprenticeship here is 5 years.

Not for any good reason besides cheaper labor for longer.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Divecoz said:


> But you are also , as I see it , unwilling to be honest.. You are unwilling to admit the truth.. even when the truths , are basic principles of life...
> You and a few others here, claim that "someone" can learn as much from a class or two, at a Vo-tech or Community College ,and from other guys, who learned from other un-schooled guys , just as much as guys who went to a Nationally Accredited School for No Less Than 4 Years and Learned from , were surrounded by , guys who as a group themselves went to 4 years of the same school?


Just think what old Thomas Edison could have done if he had got him one of them thar' union apprenticeships instead of being an unschooled slacker


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

You are Grouping Yourself .....with Thomas Edison? REALLY? How About Albert Einstein too? Hey have ya every been to the GYM? Maybe you and Arnold are look a likes hahahaha .. Go sit in the corner and be quiet until your excused for the day.. :jester:


bkmichael65 said:


> Just think what old Thomas Edison could have done if he had got him one of them thar' union apprenticeships instead of being an unschooled slacker


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

Aren't all your posts supposed to start with, "Well..." ?


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

OK Seriously: Yes the App Program is 5 years now . If you dont see the difference or the need or what you are gaining for the long range future ? IMHO you also no doubt vote to PUT IT ALL ON THE CHECK and I cannot help you understand any of this.

That brings us to another portion of why being in the Union has been good for me.. ( _BTW I did travel around America for 8 years and traveled again 3 more times when work was tight or the money was Just too good to turn down_. )
Things as many of you may well know , got pretty tight in 2007/8 and I took a layoff so that a younger Foreman would not be laid off.. I was off 6 months.. OMGosh.. a record for me... But.... Ive been UNION all my life and I???? Was Covered... I had my Local Pension and Annuity and Life Time Health Care Insurance and the NEBF and IO Pensions and SS just sitting out there, just waiting for me to qualify.. We had as well saved some money and we owned rentals we did just fine .. It took a little while but we sold the home we lived in and bought in SWF. As I said before . For me to live the life my wife and I live today we needed our home to be paid for.. our toys and vehicles needed to be paid for and "WE" needed around $70K a year in all forms of Passive income.. I know a lot of retired Union Tradesmen down here .. Our lives are very similar, some have more than others but life is good for us all. NONE of us is side jobbing or Greeting Customers at Walscum or working P/T at Lowes or Home Depot.. 
Read The Papers.. Most of Ameriica is NOT saving.. Most Americans OVER 55 have less than $50K in savings or investments!! No Cash Savings? OK But you have no investments either?? There is a damn good reason to retire , while you still have your health and can hopefully enjoy doing what you dreamed of doing all those years.. I have NEVER heard of ANYONE who was dieing who said he wished he could have worked one more day..


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

stuiec said:


> Aren't all your posts supposed to start with, "Well..." ?


I thought that on the first post a read, but then realized he was diehard union and knew it could not be the pipe man.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Go Figure... I worked my whole life as a Union Electrician.. By 2004 The American Economy was begining to TANK.. by 2007 much of America was in the toilet..Lots of People were losing everything they had!!! I was running/building Web Hosting Facilities and was hoping.... I could make it to age 62 and get a full pension .. I didnt.. at 56 I chose to Retire.. I Love My Union.. through all is faults and even a few short falls.. I still Love The IBEW..:thumbsup:


dawgs said:


> I thought that on the first post a read, *but then realized he was diehard union* and knew it could not be the pipe man.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Someone said on here that Electricians only live on the average about three years after they retire. I would delay if possible


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Bad Electrician said:


> One of the biggest issues facing American blue collar workers is a us you mentality between the unions and open shops. We should all be working together to strengthen the American Work force. go to any residential project or strip mall or office building and see who is doing the work. Many of those there are illegals forcing ALL WAGES down.
> 
> And guess what politicians on both sides of the argument love it when there is a union open shop fight because we ignore the real issue. All the issues messing with the American middle class.
> .


This should be a sticky for all the U/non U threads here. 

~CS~


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> You make some sweeping uninformed statements. Having been raised in a military family, living on military bases all my life. I meant many highly intelligent motivate people that had a love for their country and thought the military was the path for them. I have had several apprentices over the years that served for one reason love of country. Upon getting out of the military they decided to take up a trade and ended up in the IBEW, these were highly motivated hard working and excelled at their jobs young men.
> 
> There are many members here that served and are hardly talentless.
> 
> Where does your disdain come from, where does your narrow thought process come from.


His disdain probably comes from the correlation between serving in the military and law enforcement. I knew some people back in the early 90's who enlisted just to get a leg up on the list after they were discharged.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> In My 41 years of *active service* in the IBEW ....


You make it sound like the military. It was a job sir, not the military, even though I know it can be some of the same mentality though.




Divecoz said:


> ...., I can assure it better be on his lunch break or he is FIRED.. and having spent most of my career Running Big JObs.. I doubt it's the owner.. or any other part of the managment team..


I know you are older and retired, but almost every post you make seems like you are comparing today with nearly 50 years ago when you started. Times change. Things change. Even your beloved union changes.
What makes you think he is not the owner? You really think you know this because you ran BIG jobs for 41 years?

I totally get your mentality and attitude towards the union. You are one in a LONG line of present and retired union cheerleaders. Only thing is, IMO it is the more transparent and thoughtful folks that will bring the union back to it's former glory, if that is even possible today. The whole "We're the greatest and that's just the way it is!" mentality is now being met with the skepticism it deserves. Things are not always what they seem just because someone tells you they are.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Your an joke... 



Speedy Petey said:


> You make it sound like the military. It was a job sir, not the military, even though I know it can be some of the same mentality though.
> 
> 
> I know you are older and retired, but almost every post you make seems like you are comparing today with nearly 50 years ago when you started. Times change. Things change. Even your beloved union changes.
> ...


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Divecoz said:


> Your an joke...



You talk good




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Dillinger4 said:


> I had my local interview on the 10th and won't hear anything until all interviews are completed. According to a handout I grabbed at the union we are supposed to receive a letter sometime in July providing the date of the drug screen or stating that we didn't make the cut. I know it's only been a little over a week but I was just burned by a sheet metal union I had tested with so I want to hedge my bets. I know the advantages of being in a union i.e. better wages and benefits and strength in numbers but what are the advantages of working in a non-union shop?


Less per hour...less benefits...strength in numbers.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> Your an joke...


Thanks gramps. :laughing: :laughing:

You came here simply to start crap. Some here will support you, be prepared for backlash from the rest. Sorry if your perfect little world isn't so perfect. :whistling2:


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Hardly speedy hahaha _speedy_ :jester: What I see and read here is NOT what I Thought it was.. This is a (At Best) a 90% Non - Union Electricians website.. Over the years Some Good Union Brothers Signed in here say what I have seen and then left, seldom ever to return. 
*Moving Forward..* 
Now the battle Cry of the Non-Union is ... we need to work together for the common good and common cause and the betterment of both UNION and Non-Union..Workers _hahahahahahhahahaha F>U>! How do you like it NOW!_
WHY? BECAUSE Immigrants are really starting to kick your asses. 
Listen up you POS One County Boomers! The Hand Writing Is On The Wall and as always you morons will be too stupid to listen..

Yes I have worked and run work all over America How? Because I was Union Trained !! Get a load of this.. ya one county boomers!! I also ran a Good Size Job, in MEXICO! Yep I ran the Total Rehab 
_(I ran Every Trade Just like You Scabs do hahaahaha_) of a 3 story Hotel On The Island of Cozumel.. I saw first hand why the Mexicans are starting to kick your asses and handing you the remains. They Have a State Run Vo-Tech for Construction Trades.. ( _right here on this site we read no less than 6 MORONS advocating you still dont need schooling or training.. you can just pick it up as you go from some other guy who had NO SCHOOLING OR TRAINING!)_ And many of you are listen to this ****..They are Lying To You they are Screwing you for their own personal financial gain!! *How does that saying go?* _Doing today what you did yesterday hoping the results will be different tomorrow.._ 
ANYWAY......Now You guys want Unions to join forces and change our attitudes towards SCABS because your.... in trouble.. The best you guys have done in almost 30 years is ABC.. In Reality is ABC is a Failure.. all the huff and puff aside.. the numbers of ABC contractors is small compared to Union Contractors.. ABC Trained Electrician numbers are very small compared to Union Trained Electricians.. You MORONS yes MORONS! Have Preached that there is so little need for formal education that even today 6/25/15 .. 90% of your numbers have NO SCHOOLING Behind them..
Well lets move the problem forward.. NOW the problem is Europeans are coming here in huge numbers, and they are often "union" or state trained.. YEP! and they are willing to work "for awhile" Even cheaper than you guys will work for hahahaha
Here Is The Real Kicker!! *( I will repeat myself because you are such slow learners! )* While you Hillbillies have been preaching .... " _We Dont Need No Schooling"_ Your workers have believed you!! Alll these years later less than 10% of the Non Union work force has any formal education or training. You cannot bend Big Pipe , because you hillbillies pushed for romex and, few of you ever learned even the basics for bending big pipe on 1/2 & 3/4" EMT. Hows That for you dummies cutting off your own peckers?? hahahaa 
Again _Moving Forward...Around 80% of _*This New Threat..* of Central Europeans have anywhere from some.... to a hell of a lot of Formal Training Schooling and Technical Background.. And They Stand TOGETHER.. Guess Why??
*Back to The Mexicans:* Mexicans will be a little slower at taking your jobs but they understand the concept of Unions and they WANT IN as quickly as possible.. ( _There are Lots of Unions In Mexico They constitute the Majority of what little middle class Mexico has_..) You scabs better learn to speak Spanish or Croatian because your next boss will have one of those as his first language. What The Unions faced with the Pinkertons is going to be childs play, ( _and it was really bad_ ) compared to how the Croatians Russians and Serbians ( _Mafia_) are going to be treating you fellows when they are Ready to Take Away Your Industry! 

As for the BS-er who called me a troll with limited knowledge blablabla.. that just shows how stupid you are.. Union Members by INTERNATIONAL and LOCAL UNION BY-LAWS.. Are Not To.... Work for Non-Union Educate Non-Union or Train In ANY WAY ...NON-UNION SCABS And That Includes Answering Technical Questions on a chat board..!!!:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2:




Speedy Petey said:


> Thanks gramps. :laughing: :laughing:
> 
> You came here simply to start crap. Some here will support you, be prepared for backlash from the rest. Sorry if your perfect little world isn't so perfect. :whistling2:


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Divecoz said:


> Hardly speedy hahaha _speedy_ :jester: What I see and read here is NOT what I Thought it was.. This is a (At Best) a 90% Non - Union Electricians website.. Over the years Some Good Union Brothers Signed in here say what I have seen and then left, seldom ever to return.
> *Moving Forward..*
> Now the battle Cry of the Non-Union is ... we need to work together for the common good and common cause and the betterment of both UNION and Non-Union..Workers _hahahahahahhahahaha F>U>! How do you like it NOW!_
> WHY? BECAUSE Immigrants are really starting to kick your asses.
> ...


Again, thanks for this enlightening, educational post. Your superior knowledge stupefies the simpletons We have become. Your self misery is transcendent. Good day


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Divecoz said:


> Your an joke...


Says the guy who started his apprenticeship in 1972 and retired in 2007, at the age of 56, after running big union jobs for 41 years. Math is so hard


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

bkmichael65 said:


> Says the guy who started his apprenticeship in 1972 and retired in 2007, at the age of 56, after running big union jobs for 41 years. Math is so hard


 But he does have speech down pat, see post #66.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

Yeah um I don't think I want to be an electrician anymore. :laughing:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

bkmichael65 said:


> Says the guy who started his apprenticeship in 1972 and retired in 2007, at the age of 56, after running big union jobs for 41 years. Math is so hard


So not only is he a TROLL, we see why he big jobs lost money. All foremen should have basic math skills, is that what his 4 year apprenticeship got him.


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## JDJ (Aug 9, 2011)

dronai said:


> Someone said on here that Electricians only live on the average about three years after they retire. I would delay if possible


That would be me, and I suggested the same. :laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Divecoz, you are a typical union wannabe bully. You constantly throw around your supposed superiority, say things like "active service" with regard to working in the union, toss around the old fraternity term "brother", and now the every popular "scabs" insult comes out.
If this place is so bad, WHY are you still here? We have plenty of decent union members here and they seem to be OK, we even get in the occasional scrape but the outcome is usually civil. The only thing is they are not the troll you are and have long since removed the stick that is obviously so far up your ass it's poking you in the eye from behind.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Divecoz said:


> Hardly speedy hahaha _speedy_ :jester: What I see and read here is NOT what I Thought it was.. This is a (At Best) a 90% Non - Union Electricians website.. Over the years Some Good Union Brothers Signed in here say what I have seen and then left, seldom ever to return.
> *Moving Forward..*
> Now the battle Cry of the Non-Union is ... we need to work together for the common good and common cause and the betterment of both UNION and Non-Union..Workers _hahahahahahhahahaha F>U>! How do you like it NOW!_
> WHY? BECAUSE Immigrants are really starting to kick your asses.
> ...



You come across as an ignorant, pompous buffoon. Was that your intent?


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## Ontario (Sep 9, 2013)

bkmichael65 said:


> Says the guy who started his apprenticeship in 1972 and retired in 2007, at the age of 56, after running big union jobs for 41 years. Math is so hard


Hey, 15 year olds can run BIG Union jobs too!


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## Lemus"TheDon"Navarro (Jun 1, 2011)

IslandGuy said:


> Precisely... all one need do is look at all those success stories who took this sage advice. Nonunion electricians always make exactly whatever they're worth.
> 
> Or join the military. Thats where everybody who has very little talent, or no future goes to at the very least, get a 10- point edge on all future civil service exams.




😤What's this all about???was reading this thread when I stumbled upon your comment I am sure my brothers and sisters who lost there lives or limbs would appreciate ur comment that they are talentless argh some people I met plenty of talented individuals in my time in the military and I am proud to call them my family


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## Lemus"TheDon"Navarro (Jun 1, 2011)

*Union/military*

As someone who was an electrician in the military and is serving my apprenticeship in the IBEW I can tell u one thing about the schooling the schooling is better than the short 6.5months I had in military for electrical I appreciate the classes I take and my instructor in the IBEW good schools that's my two cents


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

_blah blah blah_, better than you _blah blah_

when even the tenured union guys come on telling you to STFU, you'll shut them out

This is due to the _'I got mine'_ tude , which so flys in the face of the collectivist fundamental of unionization it's hard for me to get my head around....

How in the blue F do you people expect to survive ???

Fine.....

I'm an independent. a '*SCAB*'

And i can cut your throat from ear to ear on any resi bid AND STILL, make a better living than you
......

Go ahead, put my SCAB azz down, i'm laughing all the way to the bank

~CS~


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Dillinger4 said:


> I know the advantages of being in a union i.e. better wages and benefits and strength in numbers but what are the advantages of working in a non-union shop?


I believe the main advantage of non-union is that you will work everyday if you want.You will get real vacation time and you will be treated like a real person. 
Your not paying dues to some ****ing money hungry bunch of ****s.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Wow. Just... wow.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> I believe the main advantage of non-union is that you will work everyday if you want.You will get real vacation time and you will be treated like a real person.
> Your not paying dues to some ****ing money hungry bunch of ****s.


Looks like I opened up a can of worms with this thread.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

In all honesty I never thought this thread had a chance.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2014)

cabletie said:


> In all honesty I never thought this thread had a chance.


We need a scorekeeper. Union mugs 4, Scabs 5. :laughing:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

This thread would be more fun at tradeworks.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

sbrn33 said:


> This thread would be more fun at tradeworks.


Can I tell everyone there that I am the greatest electrician that ever walked the earth?


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> _blah blah blah_, better than you _blah blah_
> 
> when even the tenured union guys come on telling you to STFU, you'll shut them out
> 
> ...


Around here union shops get beat on commercial and industrial bids too. This economy has evolved over the last 7 (50) years....Some make it work, some whine.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

cabletie said:


> Can I tell everyone there that I am the greatest electrician that ever walked the earth?


What is meant by an UNGROUNDED electrical service?


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

RIVETER said:


> What is meant by an UNGROUNDED electrical service?













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

As I've said in the past a certain nucleus of members are always working 40 hrs. a week,52 weeks a year. While the rest sign that magical "Rabbit Hole" of a Book,wasting their time,losing their benefits,etc. If your looking for fair and compliant,fraternally speaking,maybe you should look elsewhere. The OP is obviously one of the gifted members of of "The Club" !


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

That rabbit hole is getting deeper Spunk>








One of the key factors being just what the BadOne eloquently stated.

You'll excuse me if i'm a tad terse , offering the flip side of collectivism from a pirates stance.

Trade pirates (if i may) like myself being the subsequent race to the bottom , are the creation of the expressed _'I Got Mine'_ mentality ....

No fair play, No level playing field, Only the high seas of cut throat capitalism

~C _( AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR )_ S~


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

BS! Unless you meant to say some scabs are getting some of the commercial and industrial work around Chicago.. Here are The Facts.. Chicago / 134 has in exccess of 20,000 JWs WORKING.. 150 has 90+% Working ...461 ( Always the red headed step child because the allowed Romex ) Has 70+% Working.... 117 is at +or_ 85% employment 701 90+% Employed.... 176 85% .. _701 DuPage County has over 1600 JW's working *..*_ *Within 50 miles of Chicago there are almost 25,000 UNION Electricains working!! *


mdfriday said:


> Around here union shops get beat on commercial and industrial bids too. This economy has evolved over the last 7 (50) years....Some make it work, some whine.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Divecoz said:


> BS! Unless you meant to say some scabs are getting some of the commercial and industrial work around Chicago.. Here are The Facts.. Chicago / 134 has in exccess of 20,000 JWs WORKING.. 150 has 90+% Working ...461 ( Always the red headed step child because the allowed Romex ) Has 70+% Working.... 117 is at +or_ 85% employment 701 90+% Employed.... 176 85% .. _701 DuPage County has over 1600 JW's working *..*_ *Within 50 miles of Chicago there are almost 25,000 UNION Electricains working!! *



Union shops in my city use more mc than anybody else. That stuff is for unsupervised apprentices and idiots....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> BS! Unless you meant to say some scabs are getting some of the commercial and industrial work around Chicago.. Here are The Facts.. Chicago / 134 has in exccess of 20,000 JWs WORKING.. 150 has 90+% Working ...461 ( Always the red headed step child because the allowed Romex ) Has 70+% Working.... 117 is at +or_ 85% employment 701 90+% Employed.... 176 85% .. _701 DuPage County has over 1600 JW's working *..*_ *Within 50 miles of Chicago there are almost 25,000 UNION Electricains working!! *


Great. Chicago is union strong. Now add in the other 49 states. See we're your percentage is then.


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## Fibes (Feb 18, 2010)

dawgs said:


> Great. Chicago is union strong. Now add in the other 49 states. See we're your percentage is then.


 There you go, challenging her with math again.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

I have seen MC used a lot.. Who Pushed for it? NOT UNIONS and JSIK where is? Parts Unknown?


ponyboy said:


> Union shops in my city use more mc than anybody else. That stuff is for unsupervised apprentices and idiots....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> That rabbit hole is getting deeper Spunk>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


look at the dip after the mid-60's when Ted Kennedy pushed for immigration reform, he wanted cheaper nannies, landscapers and house keepers. And we got LBJ's NOT SO GREAT SOCIETY, high unemployment for the less than skilled, high influx in unskilled immigration, and welfare and food stamps.

Which while necessary for some in need, does nothing for a person's soul (FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD)


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Divecoz said:


> BS! Unless you meant to say some scabs are getting some of the commercial and industrial work around Chicago.. Here are The Facts.. Chicago / 134 has in exccess of 20,000 JWs WORKING.. 150 has 90+% Working ...*461 ( Always the red headed step child because the allowed Romex ) Has 70+% Working*...


 I wish they would ban Romex, MC cable, and Emt :laughing: !!!


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

dronai said:


> I wish they would ban Romex, MC cable, and Emt :laughing: !!!


I think they should ban thhn. Make mi the only cable assembly allowed. Keep those scabs from wiring anything!


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

NacBooster29 said:


> I think they should ban thhn. Make mi the only cable assembly allowed. Keep those scabs from wiring anything!


I ran romex today. :icon_redface:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Divecoz said:


> BS! Unless you meant to say some scabs are getting some of the commercial and industrial work around Chicago.. Here are The Facts.. Chicago / 134 has in exccess of 20,000 JWs WORKING.. 150 has 90+% Working ...461 ( Always the red headed step child because the allowed Romex ) Has 70+% Working.... 117 is at +or_ 85% employment 701 90+% Employed.... 176 85% .. _701 DuPage County has over 1600 JW's working *..*_ *Within 50 miles of Chicago there are almost 25,000 UNION Electricains working!! *


There's something to be proud of. The Union got romex banned in the Chicago area. Not because it is a hazard, but because it is easier than running pipe. Way to go! Plus, everybody knows that Chicago is the pinnacle of honest, no back alley agreements and incorruptible politicians.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Well, I've been working around a lot of robots lately, and it will be interesting to see where this is heading. No one will have jobs to buy anything made at these places. Romex killed the residential electrical industry in that respect. Plumbing may be heading there with Pex


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

dronai said:


> Well, I've been working around a lot of robots lately, and it will be interesting to see where this is heading. No one will have jobs to buy anything made at these places. Romex killed the residential electrical industry in that respect. Plumbing may be heading there with Pex


I'm going to start a company that specializes in wiring robots in Romex, and then trains the robots to wire other robots with Romex. If the Singularity is coming, we might as well get the ball a-rollin!


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> I'm going to start a company that specializes in wiring robots in Romex, and then trains the robots to wire other robots with Romex. If the Singularity is coming, we might as well get the ball a-rollin!


Those robots will burst into flames! 
Surely only diy hack robots would wire another robot with romex! 
Only the professional robots would use rigid to wire other quality robots.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Everyone will be at home on their computers as the robots do all the work !  Home Depot will be full of Illegal robots looking for day gigs


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> BS! Unless you meant to say some scabs are getting some of the commercial and industrial work around Chicago.. Here are The Facts.. Chicago / 134 has in exccess of 20,000 JWs WORKING.. 150 has 90+% Working ...461 ( Always the red headed step child because the allowed Romex ) Has 70+% Working.... 117 is at +or_ 85% employment 701 90+% Employed.... 176 85% .. _701 DuPage County has over 1600 JW's working *..*_ *Within 50 miles of Chicago there are almost 25,000 UNION Electricains working!! *



......"employed", as in, assigned to a contractor. How man of these employed electricians work 40 hours a week, 48 or more weeks a year. Who cares if someone is "employed", you and I both know it is the hours that matter.

461 does not allow romex. The union does not determine the wiring methods allowed in their local, the municipalities do. Aurora, where 461s hall is located, does NOT allow romex.

I used to work for a 461 shop, as an estimator / pm, that did most of its work out of local. I knew who our competition was, they would be at the walk throughs.

Last I knew, 134 had about 14,000 ish electricians, 9,000 ish employed, but the hours were no where near full time employment. 

It is summer and all the schools are doing their life safety upgrades. Check your insider info in Sept, then again in December, and report back. If you have a link to documented hours, that would mean something..... A heck of a lot more than a % of just journeymen with a shop. (You may need LMCC reports access not sure....

(Here is a tid bit.....If things are so awesome, why is the 461 hall for sale..................)


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Another tid bit.....form a union official no less........on the unofficial report......40% of the work done in the loop is done non union.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> Divecoz, you are a typical union wannabe bully. You constantly throw around your supposed superiority, say things like "active service" with regard to working in the union, toss around the old fraternity term "brother", and now the every popular "scabs" insult comes out.
> If this place is so bad, WHY are you still here? We have plenty of decent union members here and they seem to be OK, we even get in the occasional scrape but the outcome is usually civil. The only thing is they are not the troll you are and have long since removed the stick that is obviously so far up your ass it's poking you in the eye from behind.


Please ,please ,please don't judge the rest of us IBEW guys based on this yahoo.:no: He was likely _forced_ into retirement because he was useless as anything but a mouthpiece.



chicken steve said:


> This is due to the _'I got mine'_ tude , which so flys in the face of the collectivist fundamental of unionization it's hard for me to get my head around....
> 
> How in the blue F do you people expect to survive ???
> ~CS~


Morons like this have no idea what collectivism is about Steve-o

I've said it for years.......the IBEW is doomed until we get trash like that and that stupid azz mentality changes.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Rollie73 said:


> Please ,please ,please don't judge the rest of us IBEW guys based on this yahoo.:no: He was likely _forced_ into retirement because he was useless as anything but a mouthpiece.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rollie to judge anyone either in the IBEW or working open shop based on a loud mouth on any web forum would be a mistake. While I do not really know Speedy, he seems to be a man of strong character and I seriously doubt he or any of the long time members here would make that mistake..


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

dronai said:


> Someone said on here that Electricians only live on the average about three years after they retire. I would delay if possible


It's 13 months.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

My house was wired with NM in the 60's and it still works fine.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

jrannis said:


> It's 13 months.


Link? 

I guess my family is the exception. My grandfather retired in 1988 and is still going strong at 94 years old. My great uncle retired in 86 and made it to 2009.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

You come from good blood. 

Your family is offsetting the average. Now there are two electricians somewhere that won't make it to fourty.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Not ONly did Romex Kill That Indutry but it is unsafe comaped to EMT and Mr Home owner is seldom delusional enough to try and intall EMT like he does Romex. Has There Ever Been An In Wall /Ceiling / Attic Fire with EMT?


dronai said:


> Well, I've been working around a lot of robots lately, and it will be interesting to see where this is heading. No one will have jobs to buy anything made at these places. Romex killed the residential electrical industry in that respect. Plumbing may be heading there with Pex


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Divecoz said:


> :thumbsup::thumbsup: Not ONly did Romex Kill That Indutry but it is unsafe comaped to EMT and Mr Home owner is seldom delusional enough to try and intall EMT like he does Romex. Has There Ever Been An In Wall /Ceiling / Attic Fire with EMT?


Oh, do shut up you Ninny.


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## Divecoz (Jun 23, 2015)

Hahahaha I see the scabs are still dreaming hahahaha


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> Link?
> 
> I guess my family is the exception. My grandfather retired in 1988 and is still going strong at 94 years old. My great uncle retired in 86 and made it to 2009.


Longevity risk includes those that die young or too young to collect, those that drop out and collect very little and of course those that live to be very old.
The 13 months is something I read years ago. 
It's out there.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Divecoz said:


> Hahahaha I see the scabs are still dreaming hahahaha


Now you are just proving yourself the troll you really are.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I really should apologize for my post #82 here, got my feathers all ruffled.... 


Like many of you, I build my biz from a hole in the ground on up and/or work hard at our trade. It was another of those 12 hrs days were just about every faction available to hobble a biz wanted a piece of me.

I may not be the sharpest sparky , but i try to keep up.....and I LIKE what i do

Guess i should learn to take critique a tad better....

mea cuppa...

~the fowl one~


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Bad Electrician said:


> Rollie to judge anyone either in the IBEW or working open shop based on a loud mouth on any web forum would be a mistake. While I do not really know Speedy, he seems to be a man of strong character and I seriously doubt he or any of the long time members here would make that mistake..


Im sure you're right Brian. It seems the members here are smart enough to know better, I get sort of riled up when I see this crap from IBEW members. :laughing: 



chicken steve said:


> I really should apologize for my post #82 here, got my feathers all ruffled....
> 
> ~the fowl one~


No apologies required fowl one......you spoke your mind again and I (for one) respect that about you. :thumbsup:


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## mapmd (Oct 26, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> Pretty much everything you described can happen in the union. You are working construction not at Victoria Secretes.
> 
> So if your company is truely havig a tough year, your answer is screw them? Give me mine?
> 
> ...


I happen to work for a fantastic private company. We are paid reasonably and work anywhere from 40 to "you pick" hours. No need to ask for overtime...it's encouraged. I feel like some of the more experienced guys could ask for more pay, but simply do not ASK for more, for fear....for fear of what exactly? 

Only 1 guy has ever been fired and to my knowledge only 3 or 4 have ever left the company, not since I've been in.....since it started!

And when the 2 original employees and the 4th, 5th and 6th guys ever hired are still with the company....that's a fantastic sign. But of course I don't know any other companies and have never worked union. Don't know any other electrical guys either other than who you meet in the supply house, but all the plumbers and hvac guys seem to think we have a really generous employer. 

Can't all be wrong.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks mapmd for showing what all of us having been saying all along. There are great open shops out there. They aren't all rotten.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Rollie73 said:


> Thanks mapmd for showing what all of us having been saying all along. There are great open shops out there. They aren't all rotten.


For every hack rat, there is a hack thug. For every bad open shop there is a union shop that doesn't pay their bennies, etc.. etc... etc....

I have been on both sides as a worker. I am and have been in discussion with the Union on more than one occasion about becoming signatory, it has yet to work out, but that has nothing to do with wages or package costs.

I think a lot of union guys would be shocked at what the non-union guys get.

The last good merit shop I worked for was like this....

I got 35% of every job I sold (service work). This meant they based my pay on $35 per hour for vacation, holidays and sick days.

I had 100% paid medical, dental, vision, and life insurance for me and my family by the company.

I had 3 weeks paid vacation, at the hourly rate of $35.00

I had 7 paid holidays, at the hourly rate of $35.00

I had 5 sick days, at the hourly rate of $35.00

Two times per year they had a company party and paid for my wife and I to stay in a hotel for two day, with breakfast included and one dinner as well.

Over my average of 5 years with the company I made around $90k per year on the check plus benefits. This was from 2002 to 2007, then I moved.

There are really good non union shops that charge appropriately for what they do and then compensate the employees for what they do.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

My turf is rather scarce of such prosperity .

Decades ago, when the salts took me to lunch with the rep , things looked better, but one had to be willing to get outta dodge. 

Unfortunately, that would have put a major dent in daddy duty 

~CS~


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

I work for a good open shop. 
Pay is decent. Medical is average. I get 3 weeks vacstion paid. 10 holidays paid. 
All my out of home state licensing costs are covered. 
They did pay for my apprenticeship classes. When i was an apprentice.
Also ppe is provided. 
Nfpa 70e training. 
Cpr and first aid classes are also done on company time. 
Also ot is always available , if guys are looking. 
When i get a service call its 4 hrs double time minimum. 
Sundays are always double time if we work any job. 
Im sure there is more that i cant think of. 
But my point is not all open shops are out to rape the employees. 
I also got a great bonus last christmas. I was not expecting one, so it was a nice suprise. 
I put in a solid days work, and i feel i get compensated fairly. 
I do my best to make the company money, and they do recognize employees who excel.


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## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

NacBooster29 said:


> I work for a good open shop.
> Pay is decent. Medical is average. I get 3 weeks vacstion paid. 10 holidays paid.
> All my out of home state licensing costs are covered.
> They did pay for my apprenticeship classes. When i was an apprentice.
> ...


Also ive worked at this shop almost 15 years, minus 1 year i left to work for a small security and fire alarm co. 
Ive never had a layoff, or even a day with no work available. 
There were some shaky times as far as work back logged, was non existant. But we got through that.


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