# Disconnect required



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

4464528 said:


> New to generator installation...installing a Generac 8kw with EZ transfer switch. Unit comes with outdoor connection box, but is not a disconnect. Is a disconnect required for the generator on the outside of the house?


The generator should have a disconnect on it.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

Yeah the generator should have a breaker on it.


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## 4464528 (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah, thought about that as I posted the thread. In retrospect, a pretty silly question. My apologies.


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

4464528 said:


> Yeah, thought about that as I posted the thread. In retrospect, a pretty silly question. My apologies.


Not a silly question because the breaker on the generator dosent comply with the code for a disconnect.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

i think your breaker on the gen would have to be service rated to forego a disconnect. books in the truck


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I have had inspectors let me use the gas supply cutoff as a disconnect.. I just needed to post a sign on genny pointing to it..


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have had inspectors let me use the gas supply cutoff as a disconnect.. I just needed to post a sign on genny pointing to it..


Dumb a** inspectors every where just look at the thread about green wire nuts.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

ceb58 said:


> Not a silly question because the breaker on the generator dosent comply with the code for a disconnect.


Really?? What about 702.12


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> Really?? What about 702.12


 
Its all about it. Read the bottom part that people overlook. 


> The disconnecting means shall meet





> the requirements of 225.36.
> ​



Unless ordered with a service rated disconnect the breaker on the generator doesn't comply. Also when you get to 225.36 it sends you to other sections in Article 225.​


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

ceb58 said:


> Its all about it. Read the bottom part that people overlook.
> 
> Unless ordered with a service rated disconnect the breaker on the generator doesn't comply. Also when you get to 225.36 it sends you to other sections in Article 225.


225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.
Exception:  For garages and outbuildings on residential property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.

225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.

The way I read it is as long as the disconnect disconnects ALL ungrounded conductors, which a 2 pole breaker does, then in meets the requirements if 702.12


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> 225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.
> Exception:  For garages and outbuildings on residential property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.
> 
> 225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.
> ...


Look at the words "shall be suitable for use as service equipment" Unless the generator has a UL 1008 listing the breaker doesn't comply.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

ceb58 said:


> Look at the words "shall be suitable for use as service equipment" Unless the generator has a UL 1008 listing the breaker doesn't comply.


Ok. Lets take it back to my original posting of 702.12

702.12 Outdoor Generator Sets. Where an outdoor housed generator set is equipped with a readily accessible disconnecting means located within sight of the building or structure supplied, an additional disconnecting means shall not be required where ungrounded conductors serve or pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall meet the requirements of 225.36.

So. A generator with a breaker installed in it doesn't count?


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> Ok. Lets take it back to my original posting of 702.12
> 
> 702.12 Outdoor Generator Sets. Where an outdoor housed generator set is equipped with a readily accessible disconnecting means located within sight of the building or structure supplied, an additional disconnecting means shall not be required where ungrounded conductors serve or pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall meet the requirements of 225.36.
> 
> So. A generator with a breaker installed in it doesn't count?


 


> Look at the words "shall be suitable for use as service equipment" Unless the generator has a UL 1008 listing the breaker doesn't comply


It would count if it was a service rated breaker. But in these residential units that's not happening. Even the industrial 40 Kw and up I install do not have a service rated breaker on them.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

ceb58 said:


> It would count if it was a service rated breaker. But in these residential units that's not happening. Even the industrial 40 Kw and up I install do not have a service rated breaker on them.


UL 1008 deals with the transfer equipment. I install a 200 amp service rated transfer switch for a 20kw generator. The switch has a 100 amp breaker for the generator feed and the generator has a 100 amp breaker in it. Why do I need an additional disco outside? (Transfer switch is inside)


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> UL 1008 deals with the transfer equipment. I install a 200 amp service rated transfer switch for a 20kw generator. The switch has a 100 amp breaker for the generator feed and the generator has a 100 amp breaker in it. Why do I need an additional disco outside? (Transfer switch is inside)


How the hell did a transfer switch just now come into the conversation? If you installed a service rated transfer switch, in your case, a 200 amp breaker for the utility service and a breaker for the generator then as long as you meet 225.32 then, no you do not need an additional disconnect. However it has been a while since I have seen a SE rated switch come with both breakers installed. Generac stopped about a year ago. Their SE rated switch has the utility breaker only.
Also if you get into UL 1008 it dose cover all OCP.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

B4T said:


> I have had inspectors let me use the gas supply cutoff as a disconnect.. I just needed to post a sign on genny pointing to it..


so if someone getting electrocuted and you cut the gas, they remain hung up until the unit runs out of gas :no: 

Will the inspector accept a pull cord off the spark plug? :whistling2:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> 225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.
> Exception:  For garages and outbuildings on residential property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.
> 
> 225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.
> ...


Well you are reading it wrong.


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