# Plumbtrician



## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Use a rigid fitting and fill it with chico. They can bang the crap out of it all day...

Cheers
John


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Sealtite.

Hide everything in plain sight.

If it does not look like it's an alarm circuit -- just plain vanilla power conductors -- it will not draw attention.

BTW, Sealtite crushes -- but does not shatter. 

Any decent alarm system will go into "trouble fault' the moment the circuit is jacked up -- but not in full alarm.

If the facility is worth it, the risk is that great -- use redundant alarms. 

Dummy cameras are also part of the art. With such dummies, the raceway looks like it has disappeared into the structure. Heh.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I thought supervised sensors meant never having to worry about tampering?

I wouldn't try a plumbing fitting because if you've ever inadvertently tried pulling through a pull elbow, you know it's iffy at best and it may well damage the cable. 

Speaking of pulling elbow - a cast pulling elbow would be harder to shatter than an LB. Making the 90 with a box might be another way to go. 

You could spend a fortune and use stainless / explosion proof but that's going to really spend. 

You could put a box over a pulling elbow and use one way screws on the cover, that would be easy enough. It wouldn't be hammer proof but it would be hammer resistant. 

I make a shepherd's hook bend for fiber where the bend radius is critical. All it really is is a 90 and an offset to get the conduit back on the wall. This one is made as ugly as possible: 










If you want these to look better, first use the smallest conduit you really need so the radius of the bend is smaller and it protrudes less from the wall. Oversize the hole and hog it out a little oval on the side with the bend. This will make your offset as small as possible. Then space it out a little, put the offset a little further away from the 90. Looks much better that way. 

The shepherd's crook is the only way that preserves the big bend radius the BICSI nazis want for datacom but that's not usually specced for alarm wiring.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

splatz said:


> I thought supervised sensors meant never having to worry about tampering?


Yes, an alarm is already quiet tamperproof when using either single or double end of line resistors properly, however, this is also for the siren wiring, and it may also be for the alarm communication wiring if they decide to have it monitored by an alarm company. I'm not entirely sure yet, as we are in the planning stages. I don't do alarms for a living lol.

I like Navyguy's idea. I wouldn't have thought of using chico in an LB.

This is all a last resort if I cannot find a way to fish the walls in this 100 year old home. I'm hoping for balloon framing.

I am also entertaining the idea of armoured CAT5E cable. It's like teck cable, but smaller!

My friend has a neighbor that was broken into. They took their time to empty half of the house into the woods. Neighbor (and her less than 2 year old child) comes home to find the burglar still there.

I'm not sure how smart thieves can be, but if wiring is on the outside of a home, it's just not preferred.

I know an alarm guy that doesn't use end of line resistors at all for residential installs... makes it kind of useless IMHO.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> I am also entertaining the idea of armoured CAT5E cable. It's like teck cable, but smaller!


Armored cat 5e is quite a bit beefier. If you get a polyethylene jacket, you'll see it's really tough stuff, difficult to work with. But I really wouldn't try pulling armored cat5e around a hard bend, it will get wrecked. The armor isn't that tough, it's more for rodent-proofing.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Get an ADT yard sign and window stickers and put an old dog food bowl by the front door. That's enough to cause them to take a pass and move along to check out the next house.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Malleable iron LB is what you want.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

*We have 'em too, fittings in that isle are just cheaper.*

Many styles available with an electrical listing:
M/M:








M/F:








F/F:












Priciest, but would make the pull easier:


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

CTshockhazard said:


> Priciest, but would make the pull easier:



Because you can take it apart for the pull.

All of those telephone 90’s are Schiff to pull through.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

CTshockhazard said:


> Many styles available with an electrical listing:
> M/M:
> 
> 
> ...


I thought I had seen them before. Wasn't sure if they were plumbing 90's or not. Thank you.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

although if you can take it apart with the built in union, so can they.


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## batwing44 (Feb 2, 2010)

or in the panel


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

MikeFL said:


> Get an ADT yard sign and window stickers and put an old dog food bowl by the front door. That's enough to cause them to take a pass and move along to check out the next house.


Don't forget the 2 foot long dog bone :vs_laugh:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I’m not getting this. If you want to use a plumber’s elbow, why not use a normal electrical 90? If you have to, put a union on it and pull the cable as you build the pipe. If this is a house, I can’t see it being too long or complicated.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MotoGP1199 said:


> although if you can take it apart with the built in union, so can they.


Loctite?

I dunno, though. A thief might understand a hammer but a wrench can get complicated. There’s that “lefty loosy, righty tighty” thing.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

99cents said:


> I’m not getting this. If you want to use a plumber’s elbow, why not use a normal electrical sweep elbow? If you have to, put a union on it and pull the cable as you build the pipe. If this is a house, I can’t see it being too long or complicated.


What CTshockhazard shared is exactly what I'm looking for.

They will be short runs where possible. Should a union be needed, it'll be preferably above 10'. But I don't think my runs will need a union.

I need a tight 90° to go around a corner on the outside of the building around 3 feet off of the ground.

I'm either gonna try a 90 like those CT shared. Failing that, I'll use an LB and pickup some chico like Navyguy said.


ETA: to clarify, I was unaware that rigid 90's similar to plumbing ones existed. This will be the first time using rigid. No time to learn like on the first job lol


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> I thought I had seen them before. Wasn't sure if they were plumbing 90's or not. Thank you.
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


Generically, they are called telephone 90’s 


Always avoid using them.

Sometimes they are your best option but I’d rather use an offset connector 

:hide:


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

99cents said:


> Loctite?
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno, though. A thief might understand a hammer but a wrench can get complicated. There’s that “lefty loosy, righty tighty” thing.


Red loctite would work great, except when you try to take the fitting apart in the future LOL!

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Boom-proof capped elbow?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Red loctite would work great, except when you try to take the fitting apart in the future LOL!
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


Might be better than a fitting full of Chico.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

99cents said:


> Might be better than a fitting full of Chico.



I don’t even use Chico any more, I use this expanding foam stuff, you don’t have to separate the wires.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

99cents said:


> Boom-proof capped elbow?


 These would work great and they are not too expensive for 1/2" or 3/4". You can also fill them with whatever type of compound necessary. And the wires would not be accessible easily


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

MotoGP1199 said:


> These would work great and they are not too expensive for 1/2" or 3/4". You can also fill them with whatever type of compound necessary. And the wires would not be accessible easily


Explosion proof and not too expensive never appear in the same sentence lol

The pull elbows, previously mentioned, are from Crouse-Hinds with the starting designation EL


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

That fitting (LBY15) is $48 loonies... more then the cost of all the wire used in the alarm system for sure!

https://www.gerrie.com/2311146/Product/Crouse-Hinds-LBY15

Cheers
John


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Navyguy said:


> That fitting (LBY15) is $48 loonies... more then the cost of all the wire used in the alarm system for sure!
> 
> https://www.gerrie.com/2311146/Product/Crouse-Hinds-LBY15
> 
> ...


Did you “Add to your Favourites”?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I did better then that, since there is only two of them in the system, I bought them and going to sell them to @Kevin_Essiambre for a $148 loonies, plus shipping!

I am a good guy that way...

Cheers
John


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Navyguy said:


> I did better then that, since there is only two of them in the system, I bought them and going to sell them to @Kevin_Essiambre for a $148 loonies, plus shipping!
> 
> I am a good guy that way...
> 
> ...


Capitalist. Swine.:vs_mad:


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Navyguy said:


> I did better then that, since there is only two of them in the system, I bought them and going to sell them to @Kevin_Essiambre for a $148 loonies, plus shipping!
> 
> I am a good guy that way...
> 
> ...


Jeez, I hope I dont need more than 1! They're more than the alarm system equipment!

Seeing as how you bought them out of stock, why don't you pay me to take them off your hands because I don't think you'll be using them any time soon. I think paying me $30 each is a fair price, and you drive them up yourself to hand deliver them. Yes, that sounds fair to me

:vs_laugh:

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Just use a normal $2 plumbing 90. It is low voltage so it doesn't matter. don't plan on pulling thru it though


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

wcord said:


> Explosion proof and not too expensive never appear in the same sentence lol
> 
> The pull elbows, previously mentioned, are from Crouse-Hinds with the starting designation EL


If he only had to buy one to make the job the way he wanted I don't think $27 US is that expensive. I think spending $27 dollars on this fitting would be much cheaper than the time it would take to try and pull through a plumbing elbow.

EDIT: to add, just looked up the UNL105, the 1/2" 90* with the union is $69.55. Over double what the explosion proof LBY15 costs.

Actually just found Galco has the LBY15 for $21


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## Max C. (Sep 29, 2016)

Kevin, I doubt you'll find a better deal elsewhere...

https://www.covalin.com/emt-conduit-and-fittings/street-90-elbows/


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Meh. It is just residential. You are looking at this through the eyes of a bank alarm installer.
Just make it look like it's not an alarm conduit. I wouldn't worry about it much more then using EMT or PVC and normal fittings. Super glue the cover closed after you finish. Run a normally closed alarmed pair through the same cable so if it is cut, it will alarm anyways.


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