# Sw boxes with MC



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

What are you guys using for a 3-gang switch box when using MC as the wiring method?

Thanks,


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

(2) 1900 boxes, a single gang mud ring and a two gang mud ring :thumbup:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Usually use deep gang able metals here.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> What are you guys using for a 3-gang switch box when using MC as the wiring method?
> 
> Thanks,


I'll usually use either a true 3 gang box (ususally special order), or deep cut in boxes that chain together.

If you only need two gang I will use and extension ring on a deep 4 x 4x 2.25, with correct mud ring.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

I assumed it was new work. How do you mount old work cut-in boxes? Just screw thru the side into the metal stud?


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

I will buy new work version with side mount bracket and gang em. Can't remember if old works are cheaper but for some reason I usually end up ganging some of them with the new work. Probably having some in the truck to unload is why.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Hack Work said:


> I assumed it was new work. How do you mount old work cut-in boxes? Just screw thru the side into the metal stud?


Cruzie bars...they span the studs and clip the ears. (I don't know the official name for them)

Or cut a piece of metal stud to span the stud space and screw thru the ears.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Hack Work said:


> View attachment 32890
> 
> 
> 
> (2) 1900 boxes, a single gang mud ring and a two gang mud ring :thumbup:


Does the spacing work out right for a 3-gang switch cover?

(and yes, it's new work)


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Does the spacing work out right for a 3-gang switch cover?
> 
> (and yes, it's new work)


No, it doesn't.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Does the spacing work out right for a 3-gang switch cover?
> 
> (and yes, it's new work)


Nope, separate cover plates.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Hack Work said:


> Nope, separate cover plates.


Hence the name "Hack Work"


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I have used on of these:
http://www.grainger.com/product/RACO-Electrical-Masonry-Box-2DDA2

Kinda of a PITA if you don't get it just right but usually I
The depth takes up the the entire wall cavity due to the depth so on a regular stud and 1/2" drywall install, it's perfect.

Another choice is one of these with a three gang ring. This is what I normally use:
http://www.grainger.com/product/RACO-Electrical-Box-2DCX4?s_pp=false

With a three gang ring:
http://www.grainger.com/product/RACO-Plaster-Ring-Gang-Box-Cover-2DCZ1?s_pp=false

Just keep in mind that these are 3/4" deep rings.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Hack Work said:


> View attachment 32890
> 
> 
> 
> (2) 1900 boxes, a single gang mud ring and a two gang mud ring :thumbup:


Ok, this would be my last choice.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> Hence the name "Hack Work"


 ie: high profit


The majority of the time we would just make sets of 2 gang.


He asked about MC, this is probably commercial, who is gonna give a flying fu(k (other than the electrician)?


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Hack Work said:


> He asked about MC, this is probably commercial, who is gonna give a flying fu(k (other than the electrician)?


The customer. 

Maybe we have a different type of customer than you, but if you are installing 3 switches, new work, in the same location, and you install a 2 gang and single gang right next to each other instead of a 3 gang, I would expect to hear some bitching about it. Deservedly so because that's hack.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> The customer.
> 
> Maybe we have a different type of customer than you,


Yes, we must have different customers. Not a single customer has ever cared about having multiple cover plates, it's the absolute last thing anyone would notice. I am talking about in hospitals, offices, data centers, etc.

Triple brackets, 1900 boxes, and 1 & 2 gang mud rings are on the job, ready to go. On the other hand, look at this thread as an example of how many different hack solutions people have had to come up with to do this installation with 1 cover plate. It's not worth it, especially if the supply house doesn't have the 3 gang mud ring or that type of box to fit it or whatever.

Just my experience.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

Gangable gem boxes here. Usually get a box of the new work ones and a couple boxes of the old work ones.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Hack Work said:


> Yes, we must have different customers. Not a single customer has ever cared about having multiple cover plates, it's the absolute last thing anyone would notice. I am talking about in hospitals, offices, data centers, etc.
> 
> Triple brackets, 1900 boxes, and 1 & 2 gang mud rings are on the job, ready to go. On the other hand, look at this thread as an example of how many different hack solutions people have had to come up with to do this installation with 1 cover plate. It's not worth it, especially if the supply house doesn't have the 3 gang mud ring or that type of box to fit it or whatever.
> 
> Just my experience.


I know that just using what's laying around is easy, and I very much see your point but, it's not for me. It just looks like poor planning or an after thought when I see three or four switches installed like that.
I do see why it's done like that, and it works just fine.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> Gangable gem boxes here. Usually get a box of the new work ones and a couple boxes of the old work ones.


Those are really tight and I hate to find that when I open a switchbank.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

jrannis said:


> I know that just using what's laying around is easy, and I very much see your point but, it's not for me. *It just looks like poor planning or an after thought when I see three or four switches installed like that.*
> I do see why it's done like that, and it works just fine.


You see it that way (I do too).

Customers don't.

In residential I try to avoid it. But when discussing it with the customer, such as adding another switch to an existing box, and giving the higher price, they almost always say "_Who cares, just cut a new one in next to it"_.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It's all in the presentation. Just say something like, "I separated this switch to avoid confusion".

It isn't bull$hit anymore, once someone believes it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I come across lots of blueprints and spec's where the designer states exactly what type of box and ring to use for ganging up switches. I guess somebody before me must have really messed up the looks of someplace or another , to the extent that an architect had to actually learn about deep 4 gang boxes and 4 gang 1/2" rise plaster rings.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Most hated for a reason, 3 deep BX gem boxes ganged together


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

If I were doing an MC job, I would use deep 4" squares with KO's, snap in connectors and MC-Ap.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Its time for your mactip of the day!

When ganging together deep gangable switch boxes they sometimes like to spread apart a bit which makes for a harder time to line up the switch plates at trim. 

Combat this by using 1x3 lumber backing behind the boxes from stud to stud, whether wood or metal studs are used. Drive sheet rock screws thru the back of each box to the wood to hold the switch boxes firm where you want them to stay. At trim time the ganged box is as well lined up as a multigang sw. ring is. 

Metal pre fab bars just don't work as well for this situation even though they are faster to install and cheap enough to make them a no brainer for most other mounting on a job.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I'd never use those awful sectional/gem boxes for a multigang switch under any circumstances. Raco makes 3 and 4 gang metal boxes sold at Home Depot and other fine stores that cater to hack electricians. For the more professionally inclined, you can obtain multigang boxes and plaster rings at your professional supplier, albeit for a premium price.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Its time for your mactip of the day!
> 
> When ganging together deep gangable switch boxes they sometimes like to spread apart a bit which makes for a harder time to line up the switch plates at trim.
> 
> ...


How do you cut that 1X3 lumber? With the same potato you used to cut the 2X4 that you used to hold up those pancake boxes? :laughing::laughing::thumbup:


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

MTW said:


> I'd never use those awful sectional/gem boxes for a multigang switch under any circumstances. Raco makes 3 and 4 gang metal boxes sold at Home Depot and other fine stores that cater to hack electricians. For the more professionally inclined, you can obtain multigang boxes and plaster rings at your professional supplier, albeit for a premium price.


I used to work with a guy that would always do that on switchbanks & anuciator panels. It ALWAYS turned into a raggedy rigged-up nightmare. It was the kind of mess which should've taken 20 min and would turn into an hour long mess. And once you finally got the cover plate on you would immediately walk away from it, and think about the poor sucker who would stumble onto that mess a few years down the road. :laughing:

Personally, I like Hax's idea the best. I used to just put another switch box higher than the other.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

MTW said:


> If I were doing an MC job, I would use deep 4" squares with KO's, snap in connectors and MC-Ap.


I love MCAP, I dont know why more guys dont use it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MTW said:


> I'd never use those awful sectional/gem boxes for a multigang switch under any circumstances. Raco makes 3 and 4 gang metal boxes sold at Home Depot and other fine stores that cater to hack electricians. For the more professionally inclined, you can obtain multigang boxes and plaster rings at your professional supplier, albeit for a premium price.


Rough house boxes are the way to go but the premium price and lack of stocking them make the evil gem box the end product. 
UMI( a ming, ming company)) now makes the rough house boxes at a cheaper price than Steel City .


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Hack Work said:


> How do you cut that 1X3 lumber? With the same potato you used to cut the 2X4 that you used to hold up those pancake boxes? :laughing::laughing::thumbup:


I must be going nuts, I laughed way too hard when I read that.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

jrannis said:


> I must be going nuts, I laughed way too hard when I read that.


Did you see the original picture? I posted it on a private forum....


You know you had better double check stuff in case Hax is around......:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

EBFD6 said:


> The customer.
> 
> Maybe we have a different type of customer than you, but if you are installing 3 switches, new work, in the same location, and you install a 2 gang and single gang right next to each other instead of a 3 gang, I would expect to hear some bitching about it. Deservedly so because that's hack.


BS, your customers won't care at all if it is two plates or one.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

using gem boxes for 3 gang is stupid.. even home depot sells 3 and 4 gang boxes with mud rings. they are usually 5/8 mud rings, so you may have to set them back a little bit, but thats where the skilled in skilled profession comes in.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

BBQ said:


> BS, your customers won't care at all if it is two plates or one.


OK, you're right. You know all our customers 

Maybe the grocery stores don't care if you hack up an installation and it looks like crap, but a lot of other places are actually very concerned with the look. We work for a theater house, furniture showroom, high end elderly communities, and a few others that would definitely care. How do I know? Because they make a big deal over the smallest stupid details.

Yes, most typical office buildings probably wouldn't care, but many of our customers would. Plus, it's still hack and I would do it correctly instead of half doing it half @ssed like Hack work advocates.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

EBFD6 said:


> OK, you're right. You know all our customers
> 
> Maybe the grocery stores don't care if you hack up an installation and it looks like crap, but a lot of other places are actually very concerned with the look. We work for a theater house, furniture showroom, high end elderly communities, and a few others that would definitely care. How do I know? Because they make a big deal over the smallest stupid details.
> 
> Yes, most typical office buildings probably wouldn't care, but many of our customers would. Plus, it's still hack and I would do it correctly instead of half doing it half @ssed like Hack work advocates.


I think we all know that a three gang box would be best but, if you are on a fast and dirty job and can throw in what ever common item it laying around, then for the sake of production, why not use the .99 solution?


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> Plus, it's still hack and I would do it correctly instead of half doing it half @ssed like Hack work advocates.


Running MC is hack and half assed. You should be running rigid in the walls for branch circuits and lighting, that's the only professional way that a real electrician should do it.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Hack Work said:


> Running MC is hack and half assed.  You should be running rigid in the walls for branch circuits and lighting, that's the only professional way that a real electrician should do it.


I agree. If I made the decisions that's how it would be. I will admit that the laziness in me likes mc though, but it doesn't require much skill.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

.........


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

jrannis said:


> I think we all know that a three gang box would be best but, if you are on a fast and dirty job and can throw in what ever common item it laying around, then for the sake of production, why not use the *.99 solution?*


Brings a tear to my eye...


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