# Union brothers in politics



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

I read a article on how ibew members have been geting into politics, and are working on passing bills to help the middle class and back union labor . 

Hopefully this will continue would love to see more and more of this .


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Unionpride277 said:


> I read a article on how ibew members have been geting into politics, and are working on passing bills to help the middle class and back union labor .
> 
> Hopefully this will continue would love to see more and more of this .


I really DGAF until I see locals negotiating better deals on their own. They'll likely get absorbed into the Machine like the rest of them.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

TGGT said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > I read a article on how ibew members have been geting into politics, and are working on passing bills to help the middle class and back union labor .
> ...


That’s like asking the working class
To negotiate pensions annuity healthcare high wages etc ,On their own with out collective bargaining and union representation.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Unionpride277 said:


> That’s like asking the working class
> To negotiate pensions annuity healthcare high wages etc ,On their own with out collective bargaining and union representation.


No it's not. Not at alI. People start successful businesses every day and negotiate good deals for themselves without a politician passing heavy handed legislation to make them succeed.

Local unions are in a better position to address the issues and hurdles to organizing than the regional rep, IO, or any politician. The vast majority of them, simply choose not to do it, either because they are inept or complicit in sweetheart deals with NECA.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Gun grabber.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

TGGT said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > That’s like asking the working class
> ...


That would be nice hopefully we will see more of this from the locals .


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Pensions are NOT a good thing. An annuity though is a great thing.
Pensions are a pyramid scheme that will eventually crumble and will hurt the younger generation when they do crumble and fail. The numbers already point to pensions having less and less workers members contributing to retirees so that means you have to take more of your money to keep it healthy or prey upon apprentices. Some unions are already taking apprentice pension contributions and not counting it as a pension year.....how long before that 1st year money grab becomes a 2nd year apprentice money grab and then 3rd year apprentice money grab etc etc.


Pensions are a 20th century dinosaur put in place before mass automation and robotics now common, declining birth rates and modern efficiency. Pensions were capitalisms nod to fear of the communist and are a terrible idea.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

bostonPedro said:


> Pensions are NOT a good thing. An annuity though is a great thing.
> Pensions are a pyramid scheme that will eventually crumble and will hurt the younger generation when they do crumble and fail. The numbers already point to pensions having less and less workers members contributing to retirees so that means you have to take more of your money to keep it healthy or prey upon apprentices. Some unions are already taking apprentice pension contributions and not counting it as a pension year.....how long before that 1st year money grab becomes a 2nd year apprentice money grab and then 3rd year apprentice money grab etc etc.
> 
> 
> Pensions are a 20th century dinosaur put in place before mass automation and robotics now common, declining birth rates and modern efficiency. Pensions were capitalisms nod to fear of the communist and are a terrible idea.


The problem with pensions are that the company (or taxpayers) have to keep paying for that worker for the rest of his life.

The problem with annuities (or 401's) is that the worker can make a small mistake which costs them everything, and have nothing. 

As with everything, there is no easy answer.


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

At least our pension's are in better shape than public sector pension's. It's SS that concerns me. And it's NOT a gratuity. Anybody who thought government could manage money is delusional. Now we just have to get rid of the Feral [sic] reserve.


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

HackWork said:


> The problem with pensions are that the company (or taxpayers) have to keep paying for that worker for the rest of his life.
> 
> The problem with annuities (or 401's) is that the worker can make a small mistake which costs them everything, and have nothing.
> 
> As with everything, there is no easy answer.


Mandatory laws requiring very worker even part timers to have a 401 are better than pensions. 
If a person makes a mistake than so be it. Personal responsibility should be emphasized and laws can put in place to save the ignorant from themselves ie no annuity money from this fund can go into an aggressive funds. We already have in place laws where money can be pulled for certain things only. Loss of a home would be the only instance all should be pulled and when its done the person must first be signed onto the Homestead Act. Do away with that POS Bush 2 law making bankruptcy due to medical reasons extremely hard and that takes away the reason to pull money for unseen health scenarios....no easy answer and this is just a start


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

bostonPedro said:


> Mandatory laws requiring very worker even part timers to have a 401 are better than pensions.
> If a person makes a mistake than so be it. Personal responsibility should be emphasized and laws can put in place to save the ignorant from themselves ie no annuity money from this fund can go into an aggressive funds. We already have in place laws where money can be pulled for certain things only. Loss of a home would be the only instance all should be pulled and when its done the person must first be signed onto the Homestead Act. Do away with that POS Bush 2 law making bankruptcy due to medical reasons extremely hard and that takes away the reason to pull money for unseen health scenarios....no easy answer and this is just a start


I don't think more government intervention and laws forcing people to invest in certain ways is a start.


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

joebanana said:


> At least our pension's are in better shape than public sector pension's. It's SS that concerns me. And it's NOT a gratuity. Anybody who thought government could manage money is delusional. Now we just have to get rid of the Feral [sic] reserve.



Think again. There is talk on the federal level at taxing our pension funds. Right now its taxed at a very low level for insurance reasons but there is talk of expanding it to hundred's of dollars to place into a fund to help failing pensions. So by actually doing the right thing and trying to have a healthy pension you MIGHT now be screwed over to help failing pensions which will drop a healthy pension automatically into the caution or yellow group. Being in the caution group in turn means that the fund can be taken over from the actuaries that oversee the fund and overseen by the government. If your leadership hasn't talked to you about this then I suggest you punch him in the throat or worse because we could lose EVERYTHING in regards to the pensions...its that serious


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

bostonPedro said:


> Mandatory laws requiring very worker even part timers to have a 401 are better than pensions.
> If a person makes a mistake than so be it. Personal responsibility should be emphasized and laws can put in place to save the ignorant from themselves ie no annuity money from this fund can go into an aggressive funds. We already have in place laws where money can be pulled for certain things only. Loss of a home would be the only instance all should be pulled and when its done the person must first be signed onto the Homestead Act. Do away with that POS Bush 2 law making bankruptcy due to medical reasons extremely hard and that takes away the reason to pull money for unseen health scenarios....no easy answer and this is just a start


Mandatory laws on how I control my retirement? That may be good for you please leave me out of your crazy ideas. I will plan for my own retirement, I don't need anyone interfering.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drsparky said:


> Mandatory laws on how I control my retirement? That may be good for you please leave me out of your crazy ideas. I will plan for my own retirement, I don't need anyone interfering.


Certainly not the government. :biggrin:


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

HackWork said:


> I don't think more government intervention and laws forcing people to invest in certain ways is a start.



Not ideal but sometimes you need to "force" people to look long term and to do the right thing. The alternative is that they do nothing and then we have to take care of them or let them go hungry, homeless or die. I think you know that we will not do the latter. 

I view healthcare the same way. Like in Japan every citizen has to have healthcare but that doesn't mean universal. It means you cant be a POS and dump your lack of responsibility onto everyone else to pay for when you get sick which is what we have now and it means me and you pay for lazy a holes. I will pay more to help the elderly and disabled but I by no means should have to pay more for an able bodied person who is irresponsible


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

drsparky said:


> Mandatory laws on how I control my retirement? That may be good for you please leave me out of your crazy ideas. I will plan for my own retirement, I don't need anyone interfering.



Mandatory laws requiring everyone to invest. You have control


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

bostonPedro said:


> Mandatory laws requiring everyone to invest. You have control


But then you have this problem:



bostonPedro said:


> The alternative is that they do nothing and *then we have to take care of them or let them go hungry, homeless or die. I think you know that we will not do the latter. *


So in the end it's just as bad.

At least with pensions they have less chance to lose it all.


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

You actually do not have total control for the most part NOW as laws are put into place to make certain things unpalatable


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

HackWork said:


> But then you have this problem:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not really. As of now in the public pension arena ie Social secutiy you have baby boomers taking advantage of the generations behind them because those generations will never get full benefits and farther into the future they may not get anything at all but the selfish generation could care less as long as they get theirs. The pyramid structure of pensions make this scenario a guarantee. 

If people invest then they have no one to blame but themselves. I do not want to pay for selfish a holes in a pyramid scheme nor do I want to be responsible for people who lack the the ability to invest in themselves so force them to invest.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

bostonPedro said:


> You actually do not have total control for the most part NOW as laws are put into place to make certain things unpalatable


Yes, but adding more laws never solves that problem.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

bostonPedro said:


> Not really.


 Yes, really.



> If people invest then they have no one to blame but themselves.


Maybe so, but this still applies:



bostonPedro said:


> *then we have to take care of them or let them go hungry, homeless or die. I think you know that we will not do the latter. *


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

HackWork said:


> Yes, really.
> 
> 
> Maybe so, but this still applies:



The scenario for that to happen will lessen if they forced to invest and protected by laws that make it unappealing to pull money. The alternative is Social Security for them controlled by the government and the future forecasts are already bleak as to what benefits future generations will get if they get anything at all because its underfunded and no one gives a crap. No one gives a crap that a whole generation could possibly be ****ed over because they have no control over the fund. If people had their own fund then they have no one to blame and are not dependent on politicians and they will give a crap. When its yours you care more...its human nature


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

bostonPedro said:


> Mandatory laws requiring everyone to invest. You have control


All I can say is are you insane? You want to regulate what type of funds I can invest in? My economic situation is my responsibility. If I am at a position to go high risk funds it is my call not the governments roll to tell me I can't. Please do not save me from myself, I don't want to be average, never have been never want to be. If your goal is for mediocrity I feel sorry for you but will not stand in your way, it is your decision. I have a fiduciary investment adviser and I sit down and discuss the pros and cons of each investment. We don't need any more left wing socialism in America.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

bostonPedro said:


> The scenario for that to happen will lessen


 You are assuming. You don't know, no one does. It's a gamble.

As I said from the beginning, there is no easy answer, and government intervention and mandates is very rarely a good thing, especially when it comes to our money.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

In retirement you need multiple streams of income. Below is a short list...
Social Security
Pension(s)
Cash Flowing Real Estate
Annuities (Fixed Index Annuites)


A great resource of info is The Annuity Guys. 
https://annuityguys.org/


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

HackWork said:


> You are assuming. You don't know, no one does. It's a gamble.
> 
> As I said from the beginning, there is no easy answer, and government intervention and mandates is very rarely a good thing, especially when it comes to our money.


I agree its not a simple answer nor perfect. I just want steps taken to do away with having the majority of people dependent on the government for things they can do themselves. 
I want things set up to be the opposite of now and where many want to head and that is to depend on the government for more. That worries me actually it scares the crap out me. 
Individualism needs to be a priority but the individualism to take care of one selves, be self driven, self reliant and not the "hey dye you hair blue, do this drug, have sex with whoever, have boobs and a ****, run naked in the rain and do whatever you want man" side of individualism


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

bostonPedro said:


> I agree its not a simple answer nor perfect. I just want steps taken to do away with having the majority of people dependent on the government for things they can do themselves.
> I want things set up to be the opposite of now and where many want to head and that is to depend on the government for more. That worries me actually it scares the crap out me.
> *Let's be realists, that isn't happening.*
> 
> ...


There are three kinds of people. Sheep, sheep dogs & wolves. You need to be a sheep dog for you & your family. Most people are sheep, so, they won't listen or look down the road for whatever reason. I've thought on these issues much myself.


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

drsparky said:


> All I can say is are you insane? You want to regulate what type of funds I can invest in? My economic situation is my responsibility. If I am at a position to go high risk funds it is my call not the governments roll to tell me I can't. Please do not save me from myself, I don't want to be average, never have been never want to be. If your goal is for mediocrity I feel sorry for you but will not stand in your way, it is your decision. I have a fiduciary investment adviser and I sit down and discuss the pros and cons of each investment. We don't need any more left wing socialism in America.



Okay lets try this again so you get it. If you invest on your own, good do as you see fit and if you lose everything then so be it, its your fault. In combination with YOUR CHOSEN investments there is a fund that forces you to invest in a no aggressive manner instead of social security. Simply put, I do not want to pay a pension for you because they are pyramid schemes that **** over future generations. 

Most people are dependent on the government ie social security. Now people want free college tuition and healthcare. The future generations are starting to favor socialism because they are not doing as good as the generation before them. We have many who are calling for oligarchical socialism..... the rich remain rich while the middle class becomes weaker and falls more toward the working poor because all their money is taken for "free stuff" and upward mobility is made even harder because of it


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

OK. We are very smart. We can make good money and put it away.
Every time we put the squeeze on the low to no income part of society, we end up with more bank robberies, elderly mugging, burglary, jewelry snatching and all of the wonderful petty thefts hungry people make.
I dont know the answer but, I know it isnt "screw em" some people are straight up mentally or physically able to provide for themselves. I've seen it happen to electricians I've worked with.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

bostonPedro said:


> Okay lets try this again so you get it. If you invest on your own, good do as you see fit and if you lose everything then so be it, its your fault. In combination with YOUR CHOSEN investments there is a fund that forces you to invest in a no aggressive manner instead of social security. Simply put, I do not want to pay a pension for you because they are pyramid schemes that **** over future generations.
> 
> Most people are dependent on the government ie social security. Now people want free college tuition and healthcare. The future generations are starting to favor socialism because they are not doing as good as the generation before them. We have many who are calling for oligarchical socialism..... the rich remain rich while the middle class becomes weaker and falls more toward the working poor because all their money is taken for "free stuff" and upward mobility is made even harder because of it


While I don't find a ton of value in the 4 year degree standard to warrant subsidizing it for everybody, I also don't begrudge my or my childrens subsidized kindergarten and I don't see the costs outweighing the benefits of adult education.

Texas is constitutionally required to "establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of*public*free schools". So an argument could be made to extend that to 2 or 4 year degrees here.

I've wanted to take advantage of the community college here since I pay for it through my property taxes.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Southeast Power said:


> OK. We are very smart. We can make good money and put it away.
> 
> Every time we put the squeeze on the low to no income part of society, we end up with more bank robberies, elderly mugging, burglary, jewelry snatching and all of the wonderful petty thefts hungry people make.
> 
> I dont know the answer but, I know it isnt "screw em" some people are straight up mentally or physically able to provide for themselves. I've seen it happen to electricians I've worked with.


I talked about this the other day. Capitalism is awesome for the mentally and emotionally stable and able-bodied. 

I thought about a CE2 that had to quit recently because he has severe seizures and cannot drive, doctors orders. As a foreman he is useless to me, he has no value to the company. Where will his "place" be? He didn't even qualify for our low tier health insurance because he didn't work long enough. He missed several days of work because he couldn't afford to put gas in his car, we had to find somebody he could carpool with.

I'm very lucky I can thrive in this system easier than others. He is not so lucky.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

TGGT said:


> While I don't find a ton of value in the 4 year degree standard to warrant subsidizing it for everybody, I also don't begrudge my or my childrens subsidized kindergarten and I don't see the costs outweighing the benefits of adult education.
> 
> Texas is constitutionally required to "establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of*public*free schools". So an argument could be made to extend that to 2 or 4 year degrees here.
> 
> ...


Extending just means adding which means more tax money in the long run. This is the problem in the USA because then when more people take part your taxes get raised and in the meantime the REAL culprit to the exploding costs of higher education goes chugging along untouched. 
The Educational Business Complex needs to be attacked and demolished like almost every part of society. 
Here is the reason for exploding cost....hint it has nothing to do with teachers but everything to do with administration costs 
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html 
The more people try to help the more expensive it gets because no one but the politicians is watching where the money is going so stop helping because all it is doing is driving up costs and that has saddled the millennials with debt the generations before them never had to deal with, That in turn is creating desperation among them and desperate people look to socialism because "free stuff" sounds so great when all it is is a power grab that makes people dependent on government


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

bostonPedro said:


> Think again. There is talk on the federal level at taxing our pension funds. Right now its taxed at a very low level for insurance reasons but there is talk of expanding it to hundred's of dollars to place into a fund to help failing pensions. So by actually doing the right thing and trying to have a healthy pension you MIGHT now be screwed over to help failing pensions which will drop a healthy pension automatically into the caution or yellow group. Being in the caution group in turn means that the fund can be taken over from the actuaries that oversee the fund and overseen by the government. If your leadership hasn't talked to you about this then I suggest you punch him in the throat or worse because we could lose EVERYTHING in regards to the pensions...its that serious


 So, what you're saying is, the feral [sic] government wants to heavily tax OUR pensions, to pay THEIR failing (looted) pensions? Sounds like the "text tax" they (moonbeam Brown) were trying to inflict on the public, to pay for their pensions that are insolvent (looted). What they need to tax is stock market transactions. In fact they're the ONLY thing that isn't taxed when it's bought, or sold.
Maybe that $5 bil. they're saving on the wall will cover their pensions? lol. Oh wait, it still costs us taxpayers $158 bil. a year to support the invaders. Then again, those government workers make so much money, they don't need a pension. O'l Maxipad whackjob Waters lives in a $4 million McMansion, and on her salary, that needs an investigation.


----------



## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

Very interesting how they all get rich while in office and no one cares. There is no watch dog anymore the media is corrupt.


----------



## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

HackWork said:


> The problem with pensions are that the company (or taxpayers) have to keep paying for that worker for the rest of his life.
> 
> The problem with annuities (or 401's) is that the worker can make a small mistake which costs them everything, and have nothing.
> 
> As with everything, there is no easy answer.


I am a fan of pension AND annuity.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

bostonPedro said:


> Mandatory laws requiring everyone to invest. You have control


They already have that, but they went one step further, government mandated investment in a government managed fund - social security. Predictably, given our government's money track record, not fiscally sound. 

I really don't think that pensions are inherently unsound or outdated. If you follow the actuarial rules like life insurance does, the money will be there. The problem is when the economy was booming and expanding for so long in the postwar decades, it became too tempting to just cheat, rob Peter (the young contributors) to pay Paul (the older contributors). 

As long as there were ever more young contributors around to cover today's pensioners, you'd be OK cheating. Just like with pyramind and Ponzi schemes, it just catches up with you eventually. This house of cards is different because it's taken generations for the walls to come tumbling down. 

Properly regulated, without the Peter - robbing - Paul, pensions are sound in principle. Unfortunately, our regulators have been way too corruptible, we've had the fox watching the henhouse, and it's been this way for a very long time. Plus it's probably really difficult for the government to say with a straight face, "Be responsible with your fund!" the way they've raided Social Security.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

A person I went to high school with believes everyone making over some number 500,000.00 or thereabouts should have to give up all money above that to be redistributed to the poor, this way it would end poverty. YEAH, SHE IS AN F'ing IDIOT.

I tried to explain to her if you took all the money in the world and evenly distributed in 5-10 years maybe sooner there would be rich people, poor people and hopefully a middle class. Not all the same rich-poor we have now but still rich and poor.

And of course, she wants the government to mandate this, guess who would get the most money.


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Chops146 said:


> I am a fan of pension AND annuity.


In Canada IBEW members get the International pension and our own personal pension. The International one is small but our own private one depends on how much you have worked and is not shared. It is one of the big selling points to non union when organizing. 

We also have the government pension that everyone pays into but it is also small.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't know why they would get into politics. I thought the whole idea of unions was to buy and intimidate politicians.


----------



## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

How many unions do you think there will be when there are only democrats socialist and communist in power.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Galt said:


> How many unions do you think there will be when there are only democrats socialist and communist in power.


My personal belief is that unions are the "useful idiots" for the left wing movement. Once the unions have outlived their usefulness and the communists and socialists have full control, they will be dispensed with.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MTW said:


> My personal belief is that unions are the "useful idiots" for the left wing movement. Once the unions have outlived their usefulness and the communists and socialists have full control, they will be dispensed with.


I see


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

flyboy said:


> I see


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Chops146 said:


> HackWork said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with pensions are that the company (or taxpayers) have to keep paying for that worker for the rest of his life.
> ...


me too!!!!!!!!


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

MTW said:


> Galt said:
> 
> 
> > How many unions do you think there will be when there are only democrats socialist and communist in power.
> ...


unions will never outlive there usefulness, otherwise owners will reduce hourly pay, healthcare benefits, and retirement benefits FIRST CHANCE they get. Nothing wrong with unions working to keep decent wages and stable benefits for its members, if that’s not your cup of tea, there are other choices.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

360max said:


> MTW said:
> 
> 
> > Galt said:
> ...


Unions have and will always serve a purpose .

They have survived and continue to gain strength despite years of union busting . 

The future is looking bright for the labor movement. I believe more and more people are realizing the power and strength in a union .


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Unionpride277 said:


> The future is looking bright for the labor movement. I believe more and more people are realizing the power and strength in a union .


It's almost depressing that you believe this. They really got you brainwashed.

The rest of us realists weep for our future.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MTW said:


> My personal belief is that unions are the "useful idiots" for the left wing movement. Once the unions have outlived their usefulness and the communists and socialists have full control, they will be dispensed with.


That was about 2 years ago.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > The future is looking bright for the labor movement. I believe more and more people are realizing the power and strength in a union .
> ...


I guess it depends on what local your in . Our books have been clear for two years now and should be clear for years to come . No one is sitting .

Our local is extremely strong we’re continuing to get work from big jobs that require pla,s . In our territory any job over a few million has to go union , To small resi jobs our local gets a wide variety of work.

Our business manager is very good at keeping good relationships in our area apprentices do community service and we volunteer our time aswell.

The code of excellence has also been a great tool to show the positive outcome of union labor,and has helped us gain work .


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> It's almost depressing that you believe this. They really got you brainwashed.
> 
> The rest of us realists weep for our future.


Can anyone possibly believe that corporatism isn't winning, and unions are losing? I think the balance of power between corporations and workers hasn't been this bad since World War I. 

Is it going to do any good that there are union members in politics? Sounds good but we'll see. You always have to worry about a guy that spends $10 million to get a job that pays $174,000. (These are the actual numbers, average cost of a senate campaign, salary of a congressman.) 

I see two choices and I don't like either: 

Either you have to cough up and fund that $10 million campaign, and share his voting power with his other contributors, 

or he's not going to vote your way any more than he's going to drive ground rods in the frozen soil, he's not your brother any more, I don't care what it says on his card.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Unionpride277 said:


> I guess it depends on what local your in . Our books have been clear for two years now and should be clear for years to come . No one is sitting .
> 
> Our local is extremely strong we’re continuing to get work from big jobs that require pla,s . In our territory any job over a few million has to go union , To small resi jobs our local gets a wide variety of work.
> 
> ...


I would like to think your local is legitimately doing their best for their members. 

Seems like most of the leadership in RtW states start the job with a defeatist attitude with this notion that if we could just flip republican states to democrat (haha), and then repeal RtW (hahaha), only then could they get better contracts and more work for their members.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Unionpride277 said:


> I guess it depends on what local your in . Our books have been clear for two years now and should be clear for years to come . No one is sitting .
> 
> Our local is extremely strong we’re continuing to get work from big jobs that require pla,s . In our territory any job over a few million has to go union , To small resi jobs our local gets a wide variety of work.
> 
> ...


My local is a walk-thru as well.

But that doesn't mean that "the future is looking bright for the labor movement".

This is also unfortunately not true, quite the opposite "I believe more and more people are realizing the power and strength in a union ."


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Can anyone possibly believe that corporatism isn't winning, and unions are losing? I think the balance of power between corporations and workers hasn't been this bad since World War I.
> 
> Is it going to do any good that there are union members in politics? Sounds good but we'll see. You always have to worry about a guy that spends $10 million to get a job that pays $174,000. (These are the actual numbers, average cost of a senate campaign, salary of a congressman.)
> 
> ...


The second to last thing that we need in the government is electrician. The absolutely last thing that we need in the government is corrupt union electrician who are in the pocket of people who don't care about the working man's best interest.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Unionpride277 said:


> I guess it depends on what local your in . Our books have been clear for two years now and should be clear for years to come . No one is sitting .
> 
> Our local is extremely strong we’re continuing to get work from big jobs that require pla,s . *In our territory any job over a few million has to go union* , To small resi jobs our local gets a wide variety of work.


Do you have any idea how silly this sounds?



Unionpride277 said:


> *Our business manager is very good at keeping good relationships in our area apprentices do community service and we volunteer our time aswell.*
> 
> The code of excellence has also been a great tool to show the positive outcome of union labor,and has helped us gain work .


As if this is something new. 

Please, have some more cool-aide :drink:


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

I agree with Hack 😫, union numbers have fallen through the years.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

splatz said:


> HackWork said:
> 
> 
> > It's almost depressing that you believe this. They really got you brainwashed.
> ...


Yes but I see the people fighting back . The people are tired of pensions being taken away and low wadges . 

Amason strikes recently ratified contracts with the company .were befor the workers would have been to scared to strike .

The fight for 15 $ across the country for fast food workers .

The minimum wage has been increasing all over .

Their has been strikes with Walmart’s all over the country .

People are tired of corporations not paying a livable wage, And understand the power in a union .


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

360max said:


> I agree with Hack 😫, union numbers have fallen through the years.


I love you.

I you help me get rid of Chops we will be well on our way to true friendship.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

360max said:


> I agree with Hack *😫*, union numbers have fallen through the years.


What does that mean?


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

flyboy said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it depends on what local your in . Our books have been clear for two years now and should be clear for years to come . No one is sitting .
> ...


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it depends on what local your in . Our books have been clear for two years now and should be clear for years to come . No one is sitting .
> ...


True hopefully trump renegotiating the nafta bill will help stimulate industrial jobs in the USA that will be organized. And the steel taxes hopefully will do the same .

Unions have their backs against the wall I guess I’m in my own little bubble Bc the local I’m in is doing excellent right now .

Hopefully things will continue for the rest of the locals and the labor movement as one


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Unionpride277 said:


> Yes but I see the people fighting back . The people are tired of pensions being taken away and low wadges .
> 
> Amasing strikes recently ratified contracts .were befor the workers would have been to scared to strike .
> 
> ...


So you think fast food and Walmart are success stories for the labor movement, signs that things are looking up? 

:hang:


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

splatz said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes but I see the people fighting back . The people are tired of pensions being taken away and low wadges .
> ...


Yea u got a point


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Seems like the congressman of the working man, Donald Norcross, Democrat, 1st District, net worth ranges from $751,000 to $3.1 million, must have saved money by bringing a brown bag lunch every day to work.
Lets see what the very liberal Huffington Post has to say about him. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-law/the-untold-tragedy-of-cam_b_9401640.html


----------



## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Unionpride277 said:


> True hopefully trump renegotiating the nafta bill will help stimulate industrial jobs in the USA that will be organized. And the steel taxes hopefully will do the same .
> 
> Unions have their backs against the wall I guess *I’m in my own little bubble* Bc the local I’m in is doing excellent right now .
> 
> Hopefully things will continue for the rest of the locals and the labor movement as one


A "little bubble" that lacks history of your own club and club hiring practices


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

drsparky said:


> Seems like the congressman of the working man, Donald Norcross, Democrat, 1st District, net worth ranges from $751,000 to $3.1 million, must have saved money by bringing a brown bag lunch every day to work.
> Lets see what the very liberal Huffington Post has to say about him. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-law/the-untold-tragedy-of-cam_b_9401640.html


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

splatz said:


>


That was my reaction when I Googled his name and read thread article. Seems you have to "pay to play' the "*Union brother in politics*" to do business in Camden.
I thought the unions were distancing themselves from their shady politicians, but in New Jersey, that idea is not working, the union provides the shady politician.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

This is America and anyone that wants to run for office has that chance if he/she can get the funding.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Unionpride277 said:


> True hopefully trump renegotiating the nafta bill will help stimulate industrial jobs in the USA that will be organized. And the steel taxes hopefully will do the same .
> 
> Unions have their backs against the wall I guess I’m in my own little bubble Bc the local I’m in is doing excellent right now .
> 
> Hopefully things will continue for the rest of the locals and the labor movement as one


This is the thing. Whether you want to give credit to Trump or not - there's no arguing: 

Unemployment is low. 
Demand for labor is high. 
Wages are lagging. 
Working conditions are ****ty.* 
Middle class is disappearing, huge disparities in compensation for the few. 

*This is as fertile ground as unions are ever going to get. They better not be waiting for someone else to do something. If they can't grow in these conditions, it's all over.* 

_* Not firetrap-building ****ty but HR screwing-over ****ty. _


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

splatz said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > True hopefully trump renegotiating the nafta bill will help stimulate industrial jobs in the USA that will be organized. And the steel taxes hopefully will do the same .
> ...


Absolutely Let’s see if they take advantage of it


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

stiffneck said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > True hopefully trump renegotiating the nafta bill will help stimulate industrial jobs in the USA that will be organized. And the steel taxes hopefully will do the same .
> ...


Actually i know the history of the ibew and the labor movement very well.

I also know my locals history and hiring practices.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Unionpride277 said:


> Actually i know the history of the ibew and the labor movement very well.
> 
> I also know my locals history and hiring practices.


You know one side of it. 

Many of us were also taught what you were, but then learned the truth over the many years of actual experience that we accumulated.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually i know the history of the ibew and the labor movement very well.
> ...


Im very open minded and love to hear both sides .

Stiff neck said I dont know the history of the local and hiring practices . I disagree I know In great detail the history and hiring practices of the ibew and my local .


But would love to hear diff opinions and both sides of the coin . 

Not even shure that stiff necks comment even makes sense to what I posted but I’m here to listen and learn .


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Unionpride277 said:


> Im very open minded and love to hear both sides .
> 
> Stiff neck said I dont know the history of the local and hiring practices . I disagree I know In great detail the history and hiring practices of the ibew and my local .


 You know one side of the story.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > Im very open minded and love to hear both sides .
> ...


Of what story ?


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

I’ve worked non union and union 
I know both sides of the story very well


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Unionpride277 said:


> Of what story ?


Of everything.

It's the way of life. Go ask a republican something about the country and then ask a democrat the same thing, do you think it will match? Do you think one side is exactly correct while the other side is completely wrong? Or do you think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle?

Everything works like that, especially something polarizing like a labor union.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Unionpride277 said:


> I’ve worked non union and union
> I know both sides of the story very well


Sure, and that really shows in every single one of your posts :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > Of what story ?
> ...


I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle .


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > I’ve worked non union and union
> ...


I posted a Nj ibew member that made it to congress wanted to see what other members think of this .

I don’t really see how my post are being one sided or closed minded .


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

Unionpride277 said:


> HackWork said:
> 
> 
> > Unionpride277 said:
> ...


And if I were to guess I’ll bet stiff neck is not in the union ,And his point of view is only coming from the outside in .

I’ve been non union and union .
I understand both sides pretty well .


----------



## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

Galt said:


> How many unions do you think there will be when there are only democrats socialist and communist in power.


Could someone answer this question?


----------



## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

How many unions are there in china cuba and other commie places. I don't care if you have a union I just think you are supporting the wrong candidates. once the goose that lays the golden eggs is dead nobody will have any wealth.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

Unions have survived Over 60 years of busting , and will continue to play a big part in American Labor .


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Unionpride277 said:


> Unions have survived Over 60 years of busting , and will continue to play a big part in American Labor .


People have been working for others since their existence, 60 years, 80 years, 100 years, 120 years... Small amount of time considering the grand scheme of things.

The power is and always will be with those that have the work. There will always be a little ebb and flow to things, but the power is where it is and it will stay there.


----------



## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

Guess not.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Unionpride277 said:


> The fight for 15 $ across the country for fast food workers .
> 
> The minimum wage has been increasing all over .
> 
> ...


Minimum wage laws are nothing more than price and wage controls enforced by the government. The real reason the government has minimum wage laws is to mask the constant currency debasement they engage in because of inflation. But I bet they didn't tell you that at the union hall or the government school you probably attended, did they?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Unionpride277 said:


> I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle .


Your post (damn near all of them) reads like a 2nd-year apprentice that is blinded by some new information they were taught in a history of the IBEW in apprenticeship class.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

brian john said:


> Your post (damn near all of them) reads like a 2nd-year apprentice that is blinded by some new information they were taught in a history of the IBEW in apprenticeship class.


Which is exactly why I just schooled him on minimum wage laws. He thinks they're a good thing when they are the exact opposite. It's amazing what brainwashing will do.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MTW said:


> Which is exactly why I just schooled him on minimum wage laws. He thinks they're a good thing when they are the exact opposite. It's amazing what brainwashing will do.


Yeah, but so many peoples minds can't handle anything contrary to what they want/choose to believe. Schooling doesn't mean education, retention, and acceptance.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Switched said:


> Yeah, but so many peoples minds can't handle anything contrary to what they want/choose to believe. Schooling doesn't mean education, retention, and acceptance.



No argument here. Union trade schools have an agenda to teach but truth about things like minimum wage laws don't serve the interests of the union. Therefore they obfuscate it with things like "worker solidarity" and "fighting the corporations", when it's really the government that's causing the problem in the first place. I don't understand why they can't simply point that out because the truth is what would actually benefit all union members.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MTW said:


> No argument here. Union trade schools have an agenda to teach but truth about things like minimum wage laws don't serve the interests of the union. Therefore they obfuscate it with things like "worker solidarity" and "fighting the corporations", when it's really the government that's causing the problem in the first place. I don't understand why they can't simply point that out because the truth is what would actually benefit all union members.


From what I've seen most AFLCIO unions are very corporate in nature, but they sure talk big about worker's rights/empowerment and democracy. They're hypocrites for sure. The smaller more independent (and less successful you could argue) unions tend to be more democratic.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

Democratic unions are dangerous to our union bosses. That's why the AFL opposed the CIO until they brought their leaders in to their way of thinking. That's why the AFL-CIO worked to suppress the IWW, and still do. That's why the IO opposes the EDU and the FLE.


----------



## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Galt said:


> Could someone answer this question?


If the pinkos are smart, then more then there are now, the unions would then serve as a firewall to add a false sense of control/representation, although the pinkos would have their hooks in the union bosses


----------



## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Unionpride277 said:


> And if I were to guess I’ll bet stiff neck is not in the union ,And his point of view is only coming from the outside in .
> 
> I’ve been non union and union .
> I understand both sides pretty well .



My bad for not seeing and posting back sooner. If you "like" I can give you all the other side of the coin you can handle and then some. You must be young, maybe 35ish? Millennial grade. Not wanting to curb your enthusiasm, but rather keep the record straight. I paid dues to Local-1 from 1994-2001. Had a skillLESS letterLESS maintenance card. When I walked out the door the last time, I knew I'd been taken. This includes Local-1 colluding with management against us. Today, your brothers at local-1 are willing to represent us for free. Still no takers and why is that? No amount of throwing $50s and $100s at us are going to replace trust, or lack of. Further more, your ibew is clueless when it comes to representing us. At least the days of colluding with the mayors office are over. After decades of decadence, Mayor Slay of Saint Louis cit-ay thru your club under the bus the second he didn't need you :notworthy: Lucky for us Hillary didn't get elected president. Slay was rumored to be on Hillary's short list for Federal judges, including Supreme court :sweatdrop:
Yes, my point of view is from the outside in. Not once was I allowed to test/interview/ stand before a board for anything ever. Even after passing the License exam and paying dues as a "2nd class citizen. You see, it was your club who filed complaints that I shouldn't be allowed to take the test in the first place. Your club lost the first round, then I lost the second round to be "allowed" to use the license. Today, I could care less about that license around here and YOUR CLUB.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Unionism has devolved into a corruptible institution rather than an integral part of working culture. Legally we do not need conventional union representation to engage in collective activity.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Galt said:


> Guess not.


Under the Green Initiative, the Dems are backing everyone is to be union.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Go figure, collective, direct action of non-union employees across the United States in conservative republican strongholds have become a force to reckon with.

Many without conventional union representation.

Proof that business-unionism has failed the majority of working people.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Mellow (Jul 14, 2018)

brian john said:


> Your post (damn near all of them) reads like a 2nd-year apprentice that is blinded by some new information they were taught in a history of the IBEW in apprenticeship class.





As a 2nd year apprentice myself, I have begun to see the good bad and ugly of "the union"....



For me personally, thus-far...


The good: Good benefits and good training, decent top out money

The bad: Insane dues, sub standard apprentice wages, lots of stuff in the contract not abided by contractors (no direct deposit and benefits averaging 8 weeks behind) 

The ugly: 

-****ty workers won't get fired, instead they get rotated to a different shop. 

- the local thinks they have all the power in the world... when high rises are going up left and right non-union, and yet the local is negotiating raises... which brings us to...
- mandatory unpaid furloughs approx 2 months every year....
- but hey, lets show our locals solidarity at the NYC gay pride parade (tf....?) 



i'm not Nostradamus, but it seems to me like unions are a dying breed, at least in this field.....


----------



## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Mellow said:


> As a 2nd year apprentice myself, I have begun to see the good bad and ugly of "the union"....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 As an "Outsider" looking in at your Club locals 1 and 2 here in St. Louis, MO. I see the same thing. It's all about "Who", "What", "When", "Where" instead of making money doing Electrical work.
It's not that you're a dying breed but rather the "family" is getting smaller and those outside the familia can take a hike. Unchanged here in St. Louis since at least the 1970's and getting smaller.


----------



## Mellow (Jul 14, 2018)

It seems like the union used to have the ability to say to non union, "hey get the F out, or else" and it meant something. Now, it's like a joke. We lose bids to non union all over the place who are doing the job for a fraction of the price. The work might be the same, it might not be- but the guy building the high rise doesn't seem to care as long as the lights turn on. 



The apprenticeship program I'm in is 5.5 years- which involves getting an associates degree.... I'm currently taking an _art_ class. The degree is supposed to say "hey, our guys are educated and non union isn't. That's worth a lot". I'm not sure if my associates degree in labor studies will be worth double to triple to the average builder. I'm sure the schooling has something to do with the incredibly low apprenticeship wages, since some of it must be factored in.... this kind of mentality is going to ruin the local. Apprentices aren't going to stick around, and the good ones might not want to waste 5.5 years of peanuts pay so they will turn down the offer.


----------



## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Mellow said:


> It seems like the union used to have the ability to say to non union, "hey get the F out, or else" and it meant something. Now, it's like a joke. We lose bids to non union all over the place who are doing the job for a fraction of the price. The work might be the same, it might not be- but the guy building the high rise doesn't seem to care as long as the lights turn on.
> 
> 
> 
> The apprenticeship program I'm in is 5.5 years- which involves getting an associates degree.... I'm currently taking an _art_ class. The degree is supposed to say "hey, our guys are educated and non union isn't. That's worth a lot". I'm not sure if my associates degree in labor studies will be worth double to triple to the average builder. I'm sure the schooling has something to do with the incredibly low apprenticeship wages, since some of it must be factored in.... this kind of mentality is going to ruin the local. Apprentices aren't going to stick around, and the good ones might not want to waste 5.5 years of peanuts pay so they will turn down the offer.


Sorry if your message is falling on my deaf ears. I had four years electrical school and was making minimum wage for two years. Sucks starting at the bottom. We can’t all be chiefs.


----------



## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Mellow said:


> As a 2nd year apprentice myself, I have begun to see the good bad and ugly of "the union"....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see the same thing in the Midwest. You mention NYC, I would have never thought it would be anything like that in any neighboring local to local 3, I have been under the impression that they are probably the strongest local.

I have come to look at the IBEW as little more than a temporary employment agency that looks to exploit workers. I was proud when I first started, I thought I hit the lottery, it's what I wanted to do all through high school. I thought I was going to be working with skilled craftsmen brothers, through a union that looked out for each-other. 

When I was on the contract negotiating committee I believe the district purposely fed us misinformation to try to convince us to not push as hard on wages and conditions. It's disappointing, I think the unions have been raped and neglected by a generation. Even out here you often find non-union electricians making a comparable package and you can find good ones making more than our minimum package, I'm confident they are a small minority but still. There needs to be major changes from the international side, Stephenson seems like a great brother to me and he makes me hopeful, but it's going to be a tough row to hoe turning it around. I'm probably going to withdraw but still hope it gets turned around. I think the international and districts do a lot of damage to us.


----------



## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Bite your filthy tongues.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

brian john said:


> Under the Green Initiative, the Dems are backing everyone is to be union.



Wow.......maybe they aren't all bad...



No on second thought there is some graft in there someplace I'm sure.


----------

