# disagreement with inspector



## MechanicalDVR

This is why I have seen plug mold on similarly described counters.


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## backstay

He's right as far as I know. There is receptacles that are placed in the counter top, two styles I've seen. One rises up vertical and the other rotates up.


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## backstay

Or this


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## Southeast Power

Good. Do they make those in TR?


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## Dennis Alwon

IMO, the op has a good argument. If there is a doorway that doesn't count nor do cabinets. I believe ec&m had an article on this very issue.


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## drewsserviceco

If it were conditional upon "wall" we wouldn't have requirements for islands or peninsulas, right?


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## backstay

jrannis said:


> Good. Do they make those in TR?


http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele...floor-box-kits/stainless-steel/fbcvss-gtr-kit


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## chicken steve

*for clarity...>*



> *(1) Wall Countertop Spaces.* A receptacle outlet shall be
> installed at each wall countertop space that is 300 mm (12 in.)
> or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point
> along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured
> horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space.


It does say '_*wall*_' ,not sure if glass falls under the def of it.....:blink:~CS~:001_huh:


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## backstay

chicken steve said:


> It does say '_*wall*_' ,not sure if glass falls under the def of it.....:blink:~CS~:001_huh:


The non moving part of a glass door does.


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## RePhase277

A 4" square or Wiremold box can be stuck to glass with the right epoxy.


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## wildleg

so the window is sitting there and it's not in a wall ?

I agree he is a douchebag for not saying something on the rough, though.


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## TX mhelectric

Yea I knew about the plugs that come out of the top of the counter but but based on thr fact that the code didn't say counter top only but rather than wall counter top didn't think it was necessary. Also not sure if they work when you have drawers under the counter. But this guy has been a pain the whole way he has been treating this job like is was a Brad new open stud house. On the rough he failed it 3 times kept coming back after I changed whatever he said and he would tell me to add more plugs saying it's the 12ft rule. I know the code but this house is a remodel and the walls are closed. Idk if there is a code for remodel situation or not but with all the remodels I've done I've never had that problem with a inspector. Also had me remove all of the old wire from the house. I finally had to go over his head to his boss and tell them this guy keeps adding crap with every inspection and cutting my profit every time. Side note he didn't even look at the service was to worried about the damn plugs.


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## drewsserviceco

InPhase277 said:


> A 4" square or Wiremold box can be stuck to glass with the right epoxy.



I'd use Velcro. That way if the HO wants to move it, they could.


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## gold

What section did he cite for a reference?


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## TX mhelectric

He didn't


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## Dennis Alwon

I can see the argument either way but if there were windows in a living room that went to the floor then we are required to install floor receptacles. I have never seen anyone allow you to omit a space because of a window.


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## Dennis Alwon

Gold Revisited said:


> What section did he cite for a reference?


210.52(C) but that still depends on whether you consider the window a wall or not.


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## gold

Then tell him to come back and do his job. It isn't your job to read his mind. Make him cite a reference then you will either understand it or dispute it. Always get a reference.


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## Rock knocker

You're going to lose this fight. Push too hard about the wall minutiae, and the counter will become an island with zero clearance


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## MCmonkey

I interpreted the code as wall counter tops being countertops along the wall line not receptacles mounted in the wall above counter tops. The idea being all kitchen appliances come with a 2ft cord they don't want people running extension cords on the counters. Still think the rough in inspector should have caught that. They're usually quick to catch stuff in the kitchen it seems like.


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## telsa

OP: Give us the end of the story, please.


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## macmikeman

telsa said:


> OP: Give us the end of the story, please.


I can do that for him. No fix , no final, no check. So now that wall countertop has some kind of receptacle outlets in it......


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## TRurak

I got called on outlet spacing in a dining room because the inspector counted the fixed side of a sliding glass door as wall space. It would seem that each inspector is different. You need to learn how to read minds


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## backstay

TRurak said:


> I got called on outlet spacing in a dining room because the inspector counted the fixed side of a sliding glass door as wall space. It would seem that each inspector is different. You need to learn how to read minds


It is wall space. No different than a window that goes to the floor.


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## Speedy Petey

TRurak said:


> I got called on outlet spacing in a dining room because the inspector counted the fixed side of a sliding glass door as wall space. *It would seem that each inspector is different. You need to learn how to read minds*


No mind reading required, just regular reading. 

This has been a code for as long as I can remember:



> *210.52(A)(2) Wall Space.*
> 
> As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
> 
> 
> Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces, and fixed cabinets
> The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
> The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings


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## Gnome

Interesting, the Canadian rule* is explicitly the opposite when it comes to windows that extend to the floor. Still seems like a good idea to include that space especially with larger doors (Sliding door at my place is 4' wide; 8' total) because I bet a lot of space heaters get set in front of the fixed portion.

*26-712(c) the usable wall space referred to in Item (a) shall include a wall space 900 mm or more in width but *shall not include* doorways, areas occupied by a door when fully opened, *windows that extend to the floor*, fireplaces, or other permanent installations that would limit the use of the wall space;


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## LARMGUY

"I finally had to go over his head to his boss"


Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!


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## HackWork

Speedy Petey said:


> No mind reading required, just regular reading.
> 
> This has been a code for as long as I can remember:


Good to know. I didn't believe it until you posted the code.


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## Dennis Alwon

So if the wall space is defined as a fixed panel in an exterior wall then the window would count as wall space.

We have installed sillite receptacles in the sill of the window and that covers us.


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## 99cents

This kind of thing can happen when you have one inspector doing rough in and another doing the final. I had a tricky job last year and cleared some things with the inspector during rough in. For the final, the boss inspector was working relief and failed me. I couldn't go over his head because he was the boss  .


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## Dennis Alwon

You cannot expect an inspector to catch something like kitchen cabinets on a rough in. He/she amy have assumed you were going to use a pop up receptacle or -plug mold etc...


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