# Problem With Maestro Dimmer



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

What is the ceiling module you're talking about? Sometimes those dimmers will die, but sounds more like you have some screwy wiring/splice job done.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

FrunkSlammer said:


> What is the ceiling module you're talking about? Sometimes those dimmers will die, but sounds more like you have some screwy wiring/splice job done.


This dimmer/fan control requires a module in the ceiling in the support bracket for the fan, just like any remote for a ceiling fan would have.

No screwy wiring or splice. I put this control in last fall. Everything has been working fine until now.

I just talked to Lutron support and the guy told me how to do a reset on it. If that doesn't work he said it's most likely the control or module gone bad.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

The SP that affected it was the unconnected one, or the connected one? What was it connected to?

If I understand that model switch correctly, there is a module inside the fan canopy so the fan and light can be controlled separately with only one hot wire.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> The SP that affected it was the unconnected one, or the connected one? What was it connected to?
> 
> If I understand that model switch correctly, there is a module inside the fan canopy so the fan and light can be controlled separately with only one hot wire.


It was the SP that worked some recessed lights in the same room.

That's how the controller works. Just need a hot wire in the switch box, then the switched leg to the module. The module splits it up between the light and fan so each can be controlled separately at the wall or remote.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Just two wires to the wall switch, correct?

I've worked with a lot of these type of switch/modules, but not this particular one. Most of them are particularly prone to failure.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> Just two wires to the wall switch, correct?
> 
> I've worked with a lot of these type of switch/modules, but not this particular one. Most of them are particularly prone to failure.


Well yes, hot and the switch leg/return.

I've put in 3 or 4 of these and this is the first problem I've seen.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Did you try reversing the two wires to the switch?

Did you try a replacement switch/receiver?

For that matter, does it function fine from the remote, but not from the switch? Or from neither?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> Did you try reversing the two wires to the switch?
> 
> Did you try a replacement switch/receiver?
> 
> For that matter, does it function fine from the remote, but not from the switch? Or from neither?


This has been installed for about 7 or 8 months, working fine until now.
Now why would I reverse the switch leads? The hot/line goes on a certain (black) screw on the controller.

No, I didn't have another one to try. Also, I really don't want to take down a fan/light on a 12' ceiling unless I have to.

In my OP, I said I forgot to check the remote.
But if you stop and think about it, if the wall control works, the remote would have to since it only works through the wall unit.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Again, I am speaking for the majority of these controls, not this specific model, this model could be different.

Usually if the two black leads that go to the switch are reversed, either the control functions will be backwards, or the control wont work at all. For example, if you have a control where the light button controls the fan, and the fan button controls the light, you switch the two switch leads and then it will work.

Also, in most cases, the remote and the wall switch talk to the receiver independently. So if the receiver has failed, neither the remote nor the switch will work. If the wall switch has failed, the remote may still work.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Definitely sounds like you need to call an electrician.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

I have these in my house and have installed them in many customers homes over the years. It's a good product. Anyway, I haven't a clue of what your problem is as it makes no sense. I would guess a pinched wire in the canopy shorted out the module and/or shorted out the maestro control as well.

IT worked before, now it doesn't. Assuming no other projects were done around the house, KISS says that it's a problem with either the module or the control.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> Again, I am speaking for the majority of these controls, not this specific model, this model could be different.
> 
> Usually if the two black leads that go to the switch are reversed, either the control functions will be backwards, or the control wont work at all. For example, if you have a control where the light button controls the fan, and the fan button controls the light, you switch the two switch leads and then it will work.
> 
> Also, in most cases, the remote and the wall switch talk to the receiver independently. So if the receiver has failed, neither the remote nor the switch will work. If the wall switch has failed, the remote may still work.


*This model works exclusively through the wall unit. You even have to aim the remote at the wall unit and not the module in the fan bracket. Also the two wires on the wall unit are nothing more than a hot/line lead and a switch leg. If the wires were reversed it wouldn't work at all and most likely fry the wall unit.*



FrunkSlammer said:


> Definitely sounds like you need to call an electrician.


*If that's all you got just keep it in Can-a-dope!*:thumbsup:
*Just what would you do Mr. Canatrician?*



svh19044 said:


> I have these in my house and have installed them in many customers homes over the years. It's a good product. Anyway, I haven't a clue of what your problem is as it makes no sense. I would guess a pinched wire in the canopy shorted out the module and/or shorted out the maestro control as well.
> 
> IT worked before, now it doesn't. Assuming no other projects were done around the house, KISS says that it's a problem with either the module or the control.


*I've put in 3 or 4 of these myself. I have one at my house too and haven't had any problems with it nor any of the others except this one. 
I haven't been back to the customer yet but Lutron support wants to try and reset before I get a replacement under warranty.
He did say that if the reset didn't work that either the wall unit or module were probably bad.

I'm thinking lightning may have took it out since the customer's area was hit hard last week with storms.*


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## bostongtp (Apr 9, 2014)

A Little Short said:


> I have a customer that is having problems with his dimmer/fan control. It is a Lutron MIR-LFQMT which is a dimmer/fan control with remote. He said he noticed the leds that show the light level scrolling up and down for a while but didn't think anything about it. Then he later tried to turn on the lights and nothing happened. This is the odd part. The dimmer/fan control is in a 3-gang box. The other two switches are just single pole switches with one not connected. It is just there to fill space. He discovered that if he turned on the other SP switch that is there that the fan lights would come on and he could dim them.:blink: Well sure enough, I discovered the same thing. Nothing until the SP switch is turned on. So I turned off the power and pulled the switches to check the wiring. Everything seemed ok so I turned the power back on. Still the same problem. So I decided to pull the little pull-out on the dimmer to see if that would reset it. When I pushed it back in the Leds scrolled up & down like they are supposed to do when you first install these dimmers. Well that stopped the problem of having to have the SP switch on in order for the fan lights to come on. But now the lights stay on all the time. Moving the dimmer up/down doesn't do anything. Also, now it's affecting the fan. It was working ok, just the problem with the light. Now the fan is on but the speed control does nothing. Also noticed none of the Leds on either the fan or light sections of the dimmer are lit. I totally forgot to check anything with the remote. I was there for another job and he just ask me to check that while I was there. I was in a hurry and didn't think to check the remote. Anyone have any idea what's going on here? Would it be the dimmer/fan control gone bad or the module in the ceiling?


I would start with the module. Like you said your getting feedback from the remote, it's been working fine for 8 months, and now things are acting funky. You've installed them multiple times with success so your not a dumb dumb with these modules. As far as the single pole sw having to be on in order for it to work, maybe a bad connection?? Have you noticed if his fan is old/new, maybe it's getting a little old and drawing a lot of initial current when first turned on and it fried a little component on the module?? Maybe you just got the lemon.

I'm not familiar 100% with this module but just by process of elimination you've almost answered your whole question. Is the module expensive and your afraid to buy a new one and be stuck with it? If it was me I would buy a new module first see what happens.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

bostongtp said:


> I would start with the module. Like you said your getting feedback from the remote, it's been working fine for 8 months, and now things are acting funky. You've installed them multiple times with success so your not a dumb dumb with these modules. As far as the single pole sw having to be on in order for it to work, maybe a bad connection?? Have you noticed if his fan is old/new, maybe it's getting a little old and drawing a lot of initial current when first turned on and it fried a little component on the module?? Maybe you just got the lemon.
> 
> I'm not familiar 100% with this module but just by process of elimination you've almost answered your whole question. Is the module expensive and your afraid to buy a new one and be stuck with it? If it was me I would buy a new module first see what happens.


Called the customer a little while ago and ask if he would mind or felt comfortable doing a factory reset if I talked him through it. He was fine with trying it. He did the reset and it didn't help.

So I called Lutron back and they are sending a new set (wall unit and module) out. He is sure something has gone out since the reset didn't help.

As to buying a new module. I'm not sure if you can buy just the module or not.


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## bostongtp (Apr 9, 2014)

A Little Short said:


> Called the customer a little while ago and ask if he would mind or felt comfortable doing a factory reset if I talked him through it. He was fine with trying it. He did the reset and it didn't help. So I called Lutron back and they are sending a new set (wall unit and module) out. He is sure something has gone out since the reset didn't help. As to buying a new module. I'm not sure if you can buy just the module or not.


Cool sounds like the guy is easy going. Replace it and hopefully call it a day. Just be careful walking people through working with live electricity, as you know sometimes things just go wrong and if it does it could be on your dime....no time for that! We need to get paid and sip margaritas in Punta Cana. Life's too short


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

bostongtp said:


> Cool sounds like the guy is easy going. Replace it and hopefully call it a day. Just be careful walking people through working with live electricity, as you know sometimes things just go wrong and if it does it could be on your dime....no time for that! We need to get paid and sip margaritas in Punta Cana. Life's too short


Nothing dangerous, just pushing buttons!:thumbsup:

I would never have anyone deal with any of the wiring, especially live.:no:


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Good warranty right there.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

svh19044 said:


> Good warranty right there.


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

A Little Short said:


> Also the two wires on the wall unit are nothing more than a hot/line lead and a switch leg. If the wires were reversed it wouldn't work at all and most likely fry the wall unit.


The ones that send signals over AC, a la X10 (one example as Casablanca InteliTouch) if you reverse the hot and switch leg, it will function but not properly. Not sure about the RF ones. I am sure it cant damage anything, there are too many cases where the installer doesnt know which is hot and which is switched.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> The ones that send signals over AC, a la X10 (one example as Casablanca InteliTouch) if you reverse the hot and switch leg, it will function but not properly. Not sure about the RF ones. I am sure it cant damage anything, there are too many cases where the installer doesnt know which is hot and which is switched.


If an installer can't tell which is the line/hot of the switch then he shouldn't be installing this or any switch.

Look at this manual and maybe you will understand better as I'm not getting you to understand how this unit works.

http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/6615wh.pdf


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

A Little Short said:


> If an installer can't tell which is the line/hot of the switch then he shouldn't be installing this or any switch.
> 
> Look at this manual and maybe you will understand better as I'm not getting you to understand how this unit works.
> 
> http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/6615wh.pdf


From the instructions you posted:



> • Connect either of the wires removed from the switch
> to the black screw terminal on the Wall Control.
> • Connect the remaining wire removed from the switch
> to one of the brass screw terminals on the Wall
> Control.


You seem to be missing my point entirely.

No matter, as it seems the problem is either a defective wall control or receiver.

The only part I'm still curious about is why the switch next to it affected it at all at any time.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> From the instructions you posted:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My apologies, I guess I was thinking about the 3-4 way instructions where it said to mark/tag the common wire.

But the main reason I posted the link was for you to see how this unit works. Especially the module, and how you have to aim the remote at the wall unit and not at the canopy.

As to why the SP switch had to be on for the light dimmer to work I have no idea. Nor did the Lutron tech.
The only thing the two (SP & dimmer) have in common is the line feed to each and the neutrals being tied together. Nothing has changed since I installed this several months back so I don't know why the switch suddenly needed to be on for the dimmer to work.
But it did stop that after I reset it with the pull out switch. But the fan & light stayed on all the time with no response from the wall unit.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

It's infrared. I havent worked in a field where I deal with ceiling fan controls on a daily basis in a few years-- there werent any infrared options then. I presume it's more reliable than RF, which is infinitely problematic. I hate fan remotes in general.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

*Update*

Ok here is an update to this dimmer/fan control problem I have.

Got the replacement unit which was both the wall unit and canopy module.
Still doesn't work right but the LED indicators are working on this one, even though the lights and fan isn't responding.

Ok, from my OP I stated that I just quickly checked the wiring when I was there because I didn't have time to go any further that day. So today I was able to dig deeper into it.

The only thing different than my original description is instead of another SP switch it is instead a 3-way switch. I stated that had to be on for the dimmer/fan control to work. So in this 3-gang box is the wall control unit, a dead SP that is just to fill space, and a 3-way switch for the can lights in the room.

The wires in the box are: 
14-3 to the fan/light
14-2 power to the box
14-2 that is spliced in to feed something else, which I don't know what
14-3 for the 3-way for the can lights

Same thing in that the 3-way has to be on for the dimmer or fan control to work.
Here's what I did to start the trouble shooting:
I checked the power to the wall unit. I checked both the common terminal and the load terminal to neutral and had 120V. I have a lamp socket with pigtails and alligator clips I use for a test light. I hooked it from the terminals to neutral just to rule out phantom voltage. The voltage was real so I know the unit is getting the proper voltage.

But here is what I learned from that. I found that by just putting that load on the unit that it caused it to work...dimmed the lights & controlled the fan speed. So it's not that the 3-way has to be on, but that any load on ahead of the unit will cause it to work.

So just to be sure of the wiring I took everything apart in the box, cut off the ends, re-stripped them and put on new wire nuts. So I'm sure all the connections in the box are good. Tried the dimmer/fan control with no load on with it and it still didn't work. Turned the 3-way on and it works.

So I'm thinking I've got an open neutral and with another load on, it's back feeding and giving the light/fan the neutral it needs.
So next I take the canopy down to check again up there. I had already checked when I put in the new module but thought I might have missed something.

Ok, there is just the 14-3 in the canopy, so no splices other than where the module and fan wires connect. The module has 4 wires, black that connects to the switched line/leg from the wall box, white, which goes to the neutral, yellow that connects to the fan motor, and red that goes to the light.

I checked continuity from the neutral in the canopy to the wall box and it was good. So now I take my test light up there and connect it to the black and neutral of the module. It lit the test light up and I also checked voltage and had 120V. So I know the module is receiving power. Also there was no load on like I have with the other 3-way on, so I know I'm not getting any kind of back feed.

Now, I took the hot wire from my test light and connected it to the red wire (that controls the light) from the module. Then I went back to the wall unit to see if it would work my test light. I pushed the dimmer to turn it on and the light didn't come on. So I turned the 3-way on to cause a load and the test light came on and I was able to dim it.
So now I know it's nothing to do with the fan or the fan light.

To further rule out any type of back feed, I took the splices back apart in the wall box and only hooked up the wall unit to the black line feed and the white from the 14-3 to the neutral. I hooked my test light back to the black from the module to confirm I had power to it, and it did. So I moved the test lead back to the red wire and (same thing) it still didn't work. So I hooked the fan light back up so that I could use my test light at the wall unit.
So I hooked the test light up from the wall unit to the neutral to cause a load and again it caused the dimmer to work.

So all I know is the dimmer/fan control won't work unless there is some type load on with it. 
The most confusing part about all of this is the dimmer/fan control worked for 6 months, then quit.

I'm all out of ideas so let the thrashing begin!


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

When you say the 3 way has to be on for the system to work, do you mean specifically the one in the same box as the wall control or does it work when you turn on the can lights from either location ? 

What type of 3-way setup is it? Dead end or power at one end and switch leg at the other?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Vintage Sounds said:


> When you say the 3 way has to be on for the system to work, do you mean specifically the one in the same box as the wall control or does it work when you turn on the can lights from either location ?
> 
> What type of 3-way setup is it? Dead end or power at one end and switch leg at the other?


I didn't try the other 3-way after I found out that just a load would cause the dimmer to work.

The 3-way setup is the power in one end and switch/load at the other.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Just a random idea... But I've recently had the current limiter blow in a new fan and it confused the crap out of me for a minute... 


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Doesn't at all explain the 3 way deal I don't think. But sometimes a different direction helps?


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I would do two things first:

1. Remove the Lutron control set, wire a regular on/off switch, confirm everything works as it should (I dont see any reason why it wouldnt, but I always rule this out first).

2. Remove the fan, wire the fan motor light and the control set on the floor to the cut off end of an extension cord to plug it in. 

2a. Same as #2 but instead of plugging it into the wall, use the hot and neutral from the switch box.

If it works under both of these tests, depending on the project, I would either start troubleshooting the run between the switch box and the ceiling box, or just pull a new run of 14/3.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Legacyelectric said:


> Just a random idea... But I've recently had the current limiter blow in a new fan and it confused the crap out of me for a minute...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using electriciantalk.com





dspiffy said:


> I would do two things first:
> 
> 1. Remove the Lutron control set, wire a regular on/off switch, confirm everything works as it should (I dont see any reason why it wouldnt, but I always rule this out first).
> 
> ...


The test light ruled out any problem with the fan or light.

I failed to mention that when my test light was on the black from the module (and to neutral) and was lit that I pulled the FASS (front access service switch) out on the wall unit and the test light went out. Pushed it back in and it came back on.

So that would be the same as hooking up a regular switch because it switches the power to the module.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Wait.... Lights on fan are working SOMETIMES? Never mind. Are the cans and the fan light switched together? 


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

After reading this thread and reading the installation manual my theory is you may have reversed the two 14/3s. 

The system seems to operate by sending power through the wall control up to the ceiling module and wirelessly telling the ceiling module which of the two fan loads to turn on. It may not be doing any switching at all except when the FASS is operated. So if this is the case and you have the 3-way switch connected to the fan 14/3 instead of the light 14/3 the ceiling module will now have power when the 3-way energizes the black "traveler". Once that happens the wall control will be able to wirelessly tell the ceiling module what to do, which is why the wall control appears to work when the 3-way is flipped. That's why I was wondering what happens when the second 3-way is activated. 

That being said my theory doesn't take into account what is happening to the can lights which are supposed to be controlled by the other 14/3 that (according to my idea) is incorrectly connected to the fan control. Are they working normally ?


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Vintage Sounds said:


> After reading this thread and reading the installation manual my theory is you may have reversed the two 14/3s.
> 
> The system seems to operate by sending power through the wall control up to the ceiling module and wirelessly telling the ceiling module which of the two fan loads to turn on. It may not be doing any switching at all except when the FASS is operated. So if this is the case and you have the 3-way switch connected to the fan 14/3 instead of the light 14/3 the ceiling module will now have power when the 3-way energizes the black "traveler". Once that happens the wall control will be able to wirelessly tell the ceiling module what to do, which is why the wall control appears to work when the 3-way is flipped. That's why I was wondering what happens when the second 3-way is activated.
> 
> That being said my theory doesn't take into account what is happening to the can lights which are supposed to be controlled by the other 14/3 that (according to my idea) is incorrectly connected to the fan control. Are they working normally ?



Also doesn't explain how it worked for months, unless homeowner tried screwing around with it?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Legacyelectric said:


> Wait.... Lights on fan are working SOMETIMES? Never mind. Are the cans and the fan light switched together?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using electriciantalk.com


No, the fan light is controlled with the Lutron unit.
The cans are switched with the 3-ways.

Just a little more food for thought. Once the unit works and turns the lights/fan on from having the can light switch on, you can turn off the cans and the fan and light remain on. Only thing is you can't dim the light or change the fan speed. You would have to turn the load (cans) back on then the control will work.

In short, neither having a load on or off changes the fact that power is still at the module. Only thing the load does is allow the controller to dim light or change fan speed.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Vintage Sounds said:


> After reading this thread and reading the installation manual my theory is you may have reversed the two 14/3s.
> 
> The system seems to operate by sending power through the wall control up to the ceiling module and wirelessly telling the ceiling module which of the two fan loads to turn on. It may not be doing any switching at all except when the FASS is operated. So if this is the case and you have the 3-way switch connected to the fan 14/3 instead of the light 14/3 the ceiling module will now have power when the 3-way energizes the black "traveler". Once that happens the wall control will be able to wirelessly tell the ceiling module what to do, which is why the wall control appears to work when the 3-way is flipped. That's why I was wondering what happens when the second 3-way is activated.
> 
> That being said my theory doesn't take into account what is happening to the can lights which are supposed to be controlled by the other 14/3 that (according to my idea) is incorrectly connected to the fan control. Are they working normally ?


The 14-3's are not mixed up. The cans work fine. I said earlier that I didn't try the other 3-way. But I did try it just to see where it was. I didn't try it to make the controller work though.

On top of that, I'm only using the black and white of the 14-3 to the canopy as it only needs two wires. The 14-3 is there from the original wiring as the fan and light used to be switched separately.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Legacyelectric said:


> Also doesn't explain how it worked for months, unless homeowner tried screwing around with it? Sent from my iPad using electriciantalk.com


I was thinking the cans were usually turned on from the second 3-way location which was receiving constant power on one traveler from the Lutron wall control. Hitting the second 3-way would energize the switch leg from that traveler. Infrequent use or the HO's particular pattern of use might have hidden the problem from being discovered. Somewhat long shot but not impossible. 

Now though it looks less likely.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

A Little Short said:


> No, the fan light is controlled with the Lutron unit.
> The cans are switched with the 3-ways.
> 
> Just a little more food for thought. Once the unit works and turns the lights/fan on from having the can light switch on, you can turn off the cans and the fan and light remain on. Only thing is you can't dim the light or change the fan speed. You would have to turn the load (cans) back on then the control will work.
> ...



Wow. Ok, the wall controller does NOT have a neutral correct? So it works by "robbing" power in series with the connected load... Any chance the bulbs in the fan were changed to LED or CFL or something? I really don't have any good ideas on this one.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Legacyelectric said:


> Wow. Ok, the wall controller does NOT have a neutral correct? So it works by "robbing" power in series with the connected load... Any chance the bulbs in the fan were changed to LED or CFL or something? I really don't have any good ideas on this one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using electriciantalk.com


No the wall control does not have a neutral.

Again, I ruled out any problem with the fan or fan light by using my test light up there. When the controller worked (from having a load on) it dimmed my test light just fine. But the same problem if no load was on, it wouldn't control the test light either.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

@ Vintage Sounds.....

I know my update was long and you could have missed the part about discovering it was not just needing the 3-way to be on.

I left the 3-way off and just connected my test light to the wall unit. I hooked one leg of the test light to the common terminal on the controller and the other leg of the test light to the neutral in the box. The test light lit up and I was checking the voltage to make sure the controller had 120V.

By doing this it caused the controller to work. That's why I said it needed a load, not just the 3-way or the can lights. I did the same thing with the other terminal on the controller, and both worked.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

A Little Short said:


> No the wall control does not have a neutral.
> 
> Again, I ruled out any problem with the fan or fan light by using my test light up there. When the controller worked (from having a load on) it dimmed my test light just fine. But the same problem if no load was on, it wouldn't control the test light either.



By no load you mean the other 3 way is off, Correct? 


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

If it's not the fan/light, and it's not the control, it's either between the switch box and the fan box, or before the switch box. Unless I've overlooked something, you didnt rule either of these out completely. 

Something somewhere is off just enough to affect the controller but nothing else. Could be as minor as nicked insulation . . .


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

A Little Short said:


> @ Vintage Sounds.....
> 
> I know my update was long and you could have missed the part about discovering it was not just needing the 3-way to be on.
> 
> ...




I realize this was @vintage... But I'm really curious about this issue! So, by no load, you're talking no ADDITIONAL load aside from the connected light kit and fan motor. With an additional load (test light) it all works? 



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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> If it's not the fan/light, and it's not the control, it's either between the switch box and the fan box, or before the switch box. Unless I've overlooked something, you didnt rule either of these out completely.
> 
> Something somewhere is off just enough to affect the controller but nothing else. Could be as minor as nicked insulation . . .


I ruled out the fan/light by using the test light.

Pretty much ruled out the wiring because the module has constant 120V.

I didn't hook up a regular switch because, as I said, the pull out switch turned off the power to the module.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Just because there is 120v at the box doesnt mean the wiring has been ruled out.

Although it does pose a question: Line voltage is exactly the same at the switch box and the ceiling box? Does it fluctuate at all based on if the lights are on?

What else is on this circuit that is powered on during this testing?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Legacyelectric said:


> I realize this was @vintage... But I'm really curious about this issue! So, by no load, you're talking no ADDITIONAL load aside from the connected light kit and fan motor. With an additional load (test light) it all works?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using electriciantalk.com


Yes, when I say load, I'm not talking about the load from the fan or fan light. Either the load from the 3-way or me hooking up the test light to the module.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> Just because there is 120v at the box doesnt mean the wiring has been ruled out.
> 
> Although it does pose a question: Line voltage is exactly the same at the switch box and the ceiling box? Does it fluctuate at all based on if the lights are on?
> 
> What else is on this circuit that is powered on during this testing?


The voltage (120V) is the same at the wall unit and in the ceiling/canopy.
It does not fluctuate when lights are on or off.

Well, all the lights in the kitchen and living room are on this circuit, but none of them are on when I'm testing this. Well other than when I turn the can lights on.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Nothing plugged in to any outlets that might generate any noise over the AC?

It's 120v on the nose?


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Just to make sure I'm understanding.. When you put your test light in parallel with the connected fan/fan light it works correctly? And as soon as you remove your parallel load you lose functionality at the wall device. Correct? I am thinking this has to do with resistance being too high through or after the fan module to power the wall device. From there I'm blind. still think maybe bulbs were swapped? Or there's a problem maybe inside the fan module, but you changed that too.... Good problem!


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> Nothing plugged in to any outlets that might generate any noise over the AC?
> 
> It's 120v on the nose?


120.3V to be exact!

There is, I'm sure, several things plugged in the receptacles but they are on a different circuit than the lights. Nothing that I know of is on except stand-by power for the TV. No lamps, radios, or anything I notice are on.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Legacyelectric said:


> Just to make sure I'm understanding.. When you put your test light in parallel with the connected fan/fan light it works correctly? And as soon as you remove your parallel load you lose functionality at the wall device. Correct? I am thinking this has to do with resistance being too high through or after the fan module to power the wall device. From there I'm blind. still think maybe bulbs were swapped? Or there's a problem maybe inside the fan module, but you changed that too.... Good problem!


Like I said, when the parallel load is removed, the fan/light stay on but you can't control them. 
No bulbs were swapped. The fan lights are candelabra bulbs and the owner says they have never been changed other than like for like when one would blow.

Yes, the canopy module is new too.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Then I am back to, power it from a different power source, connect it without the existing 14/3, see if either of those eliminates it. 

Does it make a difference if the switch is grounded or not? Is it in a metal or plastic box?


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I can vaguely recall scenarios in the past where an incandescent light or a large resistor was wired in parallel with electronics to absorb noise/ripples in the power source that would otherwise bother the electronics.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> Then I am back to, power it from a different power source, connect it without the existing 14/3, see if either of those eliminates it.
> 
> Does it make a difference if the switch is grounded or not? Is it in a metal or plastic box?


I haven't tried it with the ground disconnected.
The box is plastic.

I'm done for the night, my brain is tired!


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Vintage Sounds said:


> After reading this thread and reading the installation manual my theory is you may have reversed the two 14/3s.





A Little Short said:


> The 14-3's are not mixed up. The cans work fine. I said earlier that I didn't try the other 3-way. But I did try it just to see where it was. I didn't try it to make the controller work though.
> 
> On top of that, I'm only using the black and white of the 14-3 to the canopy as it only needs two wires. The 14-3 is there from the original wiring as the fan and light used to be switched separately.


I mentioned this in the "update" post but failed to mention in my other reply concerning the possibility of mixing up the 14-3s. I checked continuity for the neutral from the box to the ceiling and it was good.
I also used my toner to verify the wires so I know they weren't mixed up.

The other set of 14-3 hadn't even been touched until I took all the splices apart to re-do them, and this problem existed before I even touched them.
Plus it would be hard to mix them up in this 3-gang box as the wires are clamped by the box in the location of their respective switches.


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## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

Did you figure this out yet?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Legacyelectric said:


> Did you figure this out yet?


No, I won't be back there for a while unless something quits altogether.

The HO wants to look into a different type fan control and possibly a separate dimmer.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Just go with a 3 or 4 speed capacitor based wall control and a dimmer of your choice for the lights.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dspiffy said:


> Just go with a 3 or 4 speed capacitor based wall control and a dimmer of your choice for the lights.


I gave him some links to look at and hopefully he will buy something himself and I won't have to warranty it!:thumbsup:


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