# 320/400 meter/main combos that are NEC 2020 compliant?



## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

Looking at doing my first 320/400 meter for a residential customer.

Customer wants something like a Siemens MC0816B1400SDL that has 2x200 amp mains plus some room for a few branch circuits and sub feed lugs to a garage.

One 200amp would go to the house, the other to an attached garage. He wants a few open spaces to run another sub panel in a pole barn, RV outlet, etc.

Problem is, I've looked at Siemens and Square D, but none of them seem to have anything like this that's 2020 compliant. 

Or am I better off suggesting a meter combo with just 2 200amp breakers and putting in a subpanel off of one of the breakers? Then from there, other sub panels for the garage, pole barn, etc?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

VitalJuice said:


> Looking at doing my first 320/400 meter for a residential customer.
> 
> Customer wants something like a Siemens MC0816B1400SDL that has 2x200 amp mains plus some room for a few branch circuits and sub feed lugs to a garage.
> 
> ...



What are you looking at that doesn't make it 2020 compliant?


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

I'm pretty sure if a distributor is selling it, it's compliant. EUSERC, UL etc.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Mains can’t be grouped in the same enclosure?


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

HertzHound said:


> Mains can’t be grouped in the same enclosure?


Correct. I'm looking at the MC0816B1400RLTM. There's no physical barrier separation between the 200 amp breakers.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I was thinking there was a 400 amp breaker. So the other option is to use a 400 (320) amp meter base and 2- 200 amp feed thru panels. I always called them trailer panels- feed thru lugs and about 8 circuits in each panel

Cost is about the same but labor is a bit more


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I was thinking there was a 400 amp breaker. So the other option is to use a 400 (320) amp meter base and 2- 200 amp feed thru panels. I always called them trailer panels- feed thru lugs and about 8 circuits in each panel
> 
> Cost is about the same but labor is a bit more


Around here the supply houses call them “farm panels”.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I believe you have the cart before the horse. I see services on CL all of the time in my area that people buy and THEN find out the the local utility will not approve them. 
You start at the place where the customer is going to get the electrons from. The serving utility will have standards, mfgs. and model numbers that they will accept. 
In my mind the savings on a 320 is a joke. If you need that much power go hole hawg. 
I have installed 600 and 800 amp 3 phase services on homes.
Has the customer given any thought to 3 phase?


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I was thinking there was a 400 amp breaker. So the other option is to use a 400 (320) amp meter base and 2- 200 amp feed thru panels. I always called them trailer panels- feed thru lugs and about 8 circuits in each panel
> 
> Cost is about the same but labor is a bit more


Thanks Dennis. That's an interesting suggestion, and adds future flexability. 

Do you have recommendations on model numbers, for meter base and panels?


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

backstay said:


> Around here the supply houses call them “farm panels”.


Yes, you see a lot of country houses around here with a meter stand in the middle of the "compound" with sub feeds running off to the house, animal barns, equipment barns, etc. The local PoCo here charges almost $35/mo base charge per meter, so it doesn't take long for the savings to become obvious.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Milbank is a known Brand-- I use Ge for my panels but anyone will work. The GE is wp 200 amp main breaker with feed thru lugs and I believe it has 8 circuits that can be added to it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I believe this is the panel









GE PowerMark Gold 200 Amp 8-Space 16-Circuit Outdoor Main Breaker Circuit Breaker Panel TM820RCUFLP - The Home Depot


The load center includes a sturdy tin-plated copper buss bar and a galvanized box for increased durability and reliability. The 1-Piece interior removes and re-installs easily. Outdoor NEMA 3R enclosure.



www.homedepot.com


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

SWDweller said:


> I believe you have the cart before the horse. I see services on CL all of the time in my area that people buy and THEN find out the the local utility will not approve them.
> You start at the place where the customer is going to get the electrons from. The serving utility will have standards, mfgs. and model numbers that they will accept.
> In my mind the savings on a 320 is a joke. If you need that much power go hole hawg.
> I have installed 600 and 800 amp 3 phase services on homes.
> Has the customer given any thought to 3 phase?


No, I don't. This isn't my first meter install. Just my first 320/400 configuration. I'm very well aware of what the PoCo will accept, and they will accept anything.


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I believe this is the panel


 I was just surfing the HD website as well. I'm sorta partial to SQD QO, and they have the same panel configuration....









Square D QO 200 Amp 8-Space 16-Circuit Outdoor Main Breaker Load Center with Feed-Thru Lug and Cover QO1816M200FTRB - The Home Depot


The Square D QO 200 Amp 8-Space 16-Circuit Convertible Main Breaker Outdoor Load Center with Feed-Thru Lugs is UL listed for residential, commercial and industrial power distribution. This load center



www.homedepot.com





1 of these on each side of the meter socket should work out just fine. I assume putting 1 on each side of the meter, would still be considered "grouped".


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Veteran Sparky said:


> View attachment 158850
> 
> Per-One & Two Family Dwelling Electrical Systems Manual for inspectors.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

"PoCo will accept, and they will accept anything. "

Your very fortunate. The ones I have worked around locally have iron clad specs and will only accept the model numbers on their boiler plate.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

my poco doesnt care what is below the meter as long as it has a main breaker. They do care about the meter base etc, but they will accept normal brands


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

SWDweller said:


> "PoCo will accept, and they will accept anything. "
> 
> Your very fortunate. The ones I have worked around locally have iron clad specs and will only accept the model numbers on their boiler plate.


Well, they won't even consider allowing a Generlink though.


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

Thanks....But I'd rather space them out on each side of the meter. I'd rather not run the cables for one through the other.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I worked for a small OEM electric manufacture in Phoenix for awhile. There were 4 different meter bases for the utilities in Arizona. Then there were all of the other kind of meter bases. Lever comes to mind. The company rarely sold metering products outside AZ. We did sell a lot of terminal/CT cabinets until Midwest decided to under cut the pricing. Or was that Mulberry, 30 years ago I could have them confused. All of the metered products were based off of the Boltswitch T type fuseable disconnects. Very few of the products had main switches unless it was <400 amp. It was an different experience working for a company that could and did produce a service in less than a week. Usually they were pushing 30 or so out the door to distribution every week. It was a great idea for the market. I have always wondered if there was not some company on the eastern seaboard doing the same thing for their market. 
The T fuses solved any fault current problems that might occur.


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Milbank is a known Brand-- I use Ge for my panels but anyone will work. The GE is wp 200 amp main breaker with feed thru lugs and I believe it has 8 circuits that can be added to it.


Anyone else having problems getting Milbank stuff due to shortages? I too need a 320 amp meter main and the SH told me 12 - 16 weeks out with no guarantee. All meters have been hard to come by around here all summer long.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I had to wait for 5 months for a Siemens interior, 200 amp 3ph bolt on. Tub came right away.


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

backstay said:


> I had to wait for 5 months for a Siemens interior, 200 amp 3ph bolt on. Tub came right away.


These lead times are really ridiculous, the OP mentioned a Siemens meter main he was looking at so I googled the part number and it might work in my situation. Home Depot says it ships direct from the manufacturer so I emailed them today to try and confirm the lead time, basically all they responded with is I can cancel the order if I find out that it’ll be months before it actually gets here. Something about not going with a Milbank meter feels weird though.


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

Both the sqd panel I linked and the GE panel Dennis linked appear to be months out. Checking Menards, they have some in Michigan, Illinois, but nothing within 300 miles of me.

Anything but a standard 200 amp panel seems to be completely ghosted. 

No one seems to have done anything to make their dual 200 amp meter/panel combos 2020 compliant.

I needed a GE 50 amp generator outlet. Put my email in on HD website a while back. For a notice 3 weeks later that they were in stock. I jumped the second the email arrived and there was 1 available.


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## yankeejoe1141 (Jul 26, 2013)

VitalJuice said:


> No one seems to have done anything to make their dual 200 amp meter/panel combos 2020 compliant.


I actually just looked on Siemens website and they're advertising NEC 230.71 compliant meter sockets.

Siemens Meter Combinations

I wonder if this is contributing to shortages with Milbank products, did they stop producing the old stuff too early and disregard the states still on the 2017 code that could use the old design.


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## VitalJuice (Sep 12, 2021)

yankeejoe1141 said:


> I actually just looked on Siemens website and they're advertising NEC 230.71 compliant meter sockets.
> 
> Siemens Meter Combinations
> 
> I wonder if this is contributing to shortages with Milbank products, did they stop producing the old stuff too early and disregard the states still on the 2017 code that could use the old design.


Thanks for that link. I believe Milbank has a link as well. Yes , here: Milbank 2020 meters But they are only showing 100/200 amp so far, nothing 320/400.

It would be nice if they provided actual pictures of the products, with the covers removed, instead of just engineering drawings. Siemens and SQD have crappy product pictures on their websites.

I'm assuming they were a little nervous as to how quickly everyone would adopt 2020, and then they'd be stuck with a bunch of expensive inventory that would be nothing but scrap metal. It's almost like they need to announce the changes, then give everyone a year to change over before enforcement starts taking place.


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