# Above ground pool



## danj1997 (Mar 23, 2011)

I think you really need to spend some time researching the Code.


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Zparme said:


> I'm going to give an estimate for adding a circuit for an above ground pool. I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds pretty basic. I'm guessing I'll just be running pvc to an outlet near the pool for the motor to plug into. I've never done an above ground pool before, and was just looking through the code book to see what is required. All I really see is that the gfci can't be within 10 feet of the pool, and there is no specific grounding and bonding requirements. The grounding of the gfci is sufficient. Am I missing anything?


 See equipotential bonding requirments....


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## Jsmit319 (Sep 23, 2010)

It may be a bit more complicated than that. If the pool has a maximum water depth of 42", then it fits under Part III of Article 680 (Storable Pools). Even though it's less restrictive in some ways, you are still required to comply with Parts I and II, 680.30, (bonding of metal at or within 5', for example).  If the pool holds more than 42" of water, then it is considered a permanently installed pool governed by all the provisions of Article 680. Make sure you research exactly which it is before you give them a quote, could make a difference.


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Jsmit319 said:


> It may be a bit more complicated than that. If the pool has a maximum water depth of 42", then it fits under Part III of Article 680 (Storable Pools). Even though it's less restrictive in some ways, you are still required to comply with Parts I and II, 680.30, (bonding of metal at or within 5', for example). If the pool holds more than 42" of water, then it is considered a permanently installed pool governed by all the provisions of Article 680. Make sure you research exactly which it is before you give them a quote, could make a difference.


You are correct sir.... I made an assumption and you know what happens when you ASS U Me.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Zparme said:


> I'm going to give an estimate for adding a circuit for an above ground pool. I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds pretty basic. I'm guessing I'll just be running pvc to an outlet near the pool for the motor to plug into. I've never done an above ground pool before, and was just looking through the code book to see what is required. All I really see is that the gfci can't be within 10 feet of the pool, and there is no specific grounding and bonding requirements. The grounding of the gfci is sufficient. *Am I missing anything*?


A whole bunch.


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## Zparme (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. I have zero experience with pools, bonding grids, etc...as you can tell. I guess I better start researching.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

How far away from the pool do you plan to put the 20 amp twist-lock receptacle?


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## Zparme (Nov 11, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> How far away from the pool do you plan to put the 20 amp twist-lock receptacle?


680.22 - Between 5 and 10 feet? I'm still reading. I'm actually starting to feel like I'm on information overload about pools.


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## Zparme (Nov 11, 2010)

Ok let's see if I'm getting this right. 

If I intend on putting the gfci between 5-10 feet of the pool it must be of the twist lock type. If I choose to put it more than 10 feet away, it can be a regular gfci. If the motor is cord and plug connected, then that's suitable as a disconnecting means. 

One convenient gfci must be located not closer that 10 feet from the pool, but not further than 20 ft. Does this apply if the pool is 100' away from the house?

I have to bond everything metal on the pool, and within 5 feet of the edge of the pool with #8 copper. Bonding at 4 locations on the above ground pool. I also have to have the water bonded. How do I do that?

If the motor is double insulated, then I won't have to bond it to the equipotential grid, but I do have to stub up with the #8 just in case the motor is replaced with one that is not double insulated. 

Thanks for the help.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Zparme said:


> Ok let's see if I'm getting this right.
> 
> If I intend on putting the gfci between 5-10 feet of the pool it must be of the twist lock type. If I choose to put it more than 10 feet away, it can be a regular gfci. If the motor is cord and plug connected, then that's suitable as a disconnecting means.
> 
> ...


 
Good luck with getting the pump that far from the pool, The cord can only be 3 foot.

All the motors I have seen since the bonding thing became code have a lug on them double insulated or not


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)




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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Sorry I don't know why the pics went side by side like that


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## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

You have to be at least 18"away from the pool and at 4 equal points bond the pool. Also to bond the water you can get an 1 1/4" threaded brass nipple and a ground clamp to fit and attach nipple to the pump. This is an alternative to bonding the basket.

Are you digging the trench?
Add on 20'-30'to the#8 for the extra 18"you have to be away from the pool plus the basket or nipple bond.
I did one a year ago with a helper plus I dug the trench I got 1350. I felt I should have gotten more but hey
stock was 550-700?? It was awhile ago.


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## Zparme (Nov 11, 2010)

LERelec said:


> You have to be at least 18"away from the pool and at 4 equal points bond the pool. Also to bond the water you can get an 1 1/4" threaded brass nipple and a ground clamp to fit and attach nipple to the pump. This is an alternative to bonding the basket.
> 
> Are you digging the trench?
> Add on 20'-30'to the#8 for the extra 18"you have to be away from the pool plus the basket or nipple bond.
> ...


I got the requirements from the township and it says they want the pump bonded and the pool bonded at 3 spots. Since I've never bonded a pool I'm a little confused on how the #8 is physically attached to the pool. Are there bolts on the pool purposely for the bonding? Or do I have to drill and just tap and screw the lugs down?

The home owner is digging the trench. It's about 250' long too. I'll be running #10 to compensate for vd to the twist lock and then to a timer.


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## Viperfx4x4 (May 28, 2011)

Zparme said:


> Ok let's see if I'm getting this right.
> 
> If I intend on putting the gfci between 5-10 feet of the pool it must be of the twist lock type. If I choose to put it more than 10 feet away, it can be a regular gfci. If the motor is cord and plug connected, then that's suitable as a disconnecting means.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should pass on that job......robnj772......nice.........a picture is worth a thousand words!


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## Zparme (Nov 11, 2010)

Viperfx4x4 said:


> Maybe you should pass on that job......robnj772......nice.........a picture is worth a thousand words!


I'll be the first to admit that pools are new to me, but that doesn't mean I can't try to learn about them. I learn something new everytime I'm on this site and I'm thankful for that. I might not be an expert but I believe if I read enough and plan enough then I'll be capable of doing this job. It'll be getting inspected and I want to make it a quality safe install. I'm 5 years into the trade. Unfortunately I haven't gotten to do any pools until now.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Zparme said:


> I'll be running #10 to compensate for vd to the twist lock and then to a timer.



 

Knock yourself out with the #10, but you might want to reconsider going to the TC first since it is after all controlling the load of the pool filter. Line, load. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Zparme said:


> I'll be the first to admit that pools are new to me, but that doesn't mean I can't try to learn about them. I learn something new everytime I'm on this site and I'm thankful for that. I might not be an expert but I believe if I read enough and plan enough then I'll be capable of doing this job. It'll be getting inspected and I want to make it a quality safe install. I'm 5 years into the trade. Unfortunately I haven't gotten to do any pools until now.


Do you own a code book? It'll help you to follow along.


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## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

I have yet to do an above ground pool setup either. 

I would bond the outer reinforcing post to the pool shell and from the pool shell to the bond lug on the pool pump. If it has a metal deck I would make a bonding jumper from the deck to the pool shell.

There's more to it but bonding of metallic parts obviously is the most important issue.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

lovethetrade said:


> I have yet to do an above ground pool setup either.
> 
> I would bond the outer reinforcing post to the pool shell and from the pool shell to the bond lug on the pool pump. If it has a metal deck I would make a bonding jumper from the deck to the pool shell.
> 
> There's more to it but bonding of metallic parts obviously is the most important issue.


I want to go swimming in an outdoor above ground pool with your avitar. It looks like it does too....


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Do you own a code book? It'll help you to follow along.


 
I don't think a code book will help him.

The things he is saying are different then the code book.

:whistling2:


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## Zparme (Nov 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> I don't think a code book will help him.
> 
> The things he is saying are different then the code book.
> 
> :whistling2:



Really? What have I said that's not from the code book? I may have misunderstood something, but I'm definitely not making this stuff up out of thin air.


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## Viperfx4x4 (May 28, 2011)

OK here we go, quick run down GFI breaker feeding timer (if you are using a timer indoor T101) load out of timer through 1/2" rigid conduit ( 6" trench to top of pipe ) to a SG 3 hole W/P box then a 3" nipple out of top of box to another SG 3 hole W/P box, top box feed a single pole switch with W/P cover, load out of switch to lower box with a 125v 20A twist lock recp. With (DEEP) inuse cover for recp. Hit the pool uprights in 3 spots skipping every other upright. use existing screws that hold the pool together to mount your L-70 lugs to ( or L-70 lay in lug easier to use but more$$$$) and use lock washers between screw head and L-70's. Drill and tap 10-32 hole in bottom of lower W/P box and mount L-70 lug to box with lock washer and nut. start your #8 SOLID copper bond wire at W/P box loop pump then continue to uprights and ladder if not NM ladder which most are now and deck support somewhere. as far as your convenience plug goes run another conduit run along with pool run and stub up a box 11 feet from waters edge, If you do a cir. for that use GFI breaker. if you come off a gen light cir. use a feed through to GFI protect the wire before it goes in the ground to keep your 6" trench depth. Oh yes #12 THHN wire. You must have a #12 insulated ground for a pool! even if the pump draws like 8amps. Don't forget to hit any metal such as chain link fence that is within 5' of waters edge with the bond wire as well. Oh yes the water bond too.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Viperfx4x4 said:


> OK here we go, quick run down GFI breaker feeding timer (if you are using a timer indoor T101) load out of timer through 1/2" rigid conduit ( 6" trench to top of pipe ) to a SG 3 hole W/P box then a 3" nipple out of top of box to another SG 3 hole W/P box, top box feed a single pole switch with W/P cover, load out of switch to lower box with a 125v 20A twist lock recp. With (DEEP) inuse cover for recp. Hit the pool uprights in 3 spots skipping every other upright. use existing screws that hold the pool together to mount your L-70 lugs to ( or L-70 lay in lug easier to use but more$$$$) and use lock washers between screw head and L-70's. Drill and tap 10-32 hole in bottom of lower W/P box and mount L-70 lug to box with lock washer and nut. start your #8 SOLID copper bond wire at W/P box loop pump then continue to uprights and ladder if not NM ladder which most are now and deck support somewhere. as far as your convenience plug goes run another conduit run along with pool run and stub up a box 11 feet from waters edge, If you do a cir. for that use GFI breaker. if you come off a gen light cir. use a feed through to GFI protect the wire before it goes in the ground to keep your 6" trench depth. Oh yes #12 THHN wire. You must have a #12 insulated ground for a pool! even if the pump draws like 8amps. Don't forget to hit any metal such as chain link fence that is within 5' of waters edge with the bond wire as well.


I have to admit that I had mine connected with an extension cord for so long that the grass grew over it.


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## Viperfx4x4 (May 28, 2011)

Lol I like that set up too That's how I'd do mine if I had a pool!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Not every family is the Norman Rockwell type.


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## Viperfx4x4 (May 28, 2011)




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## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

Wow now that's how you wire a pool


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Zparme said:


> Really? What have I said that's not from the code book? I may have misunderstood something, but I'm definitely not making this stuff up out of thin air.


 
All I do is come out of the house into a GFI outlet ,3/4 pvc in trench over to 6 ft from the pool next to the pump.

stick a pressure treated 2x6 in the ground run the pvc into a t101r time clock drill a hole straight thru the wood and mount a pvc box on the other side.

Install your 20 amp twistlock recp in the box with a DEEP plastic WP in use cover.

If the outlet you mounted on the house is 6-20 ft away from the pool your golden, if not put one above the twist lock on the pressure treated board.
The outlet has to be 6-20 ft not 5-10 or whatever you were saying.

REMEMBER the cord on the pump can only be 36 inches long

Take # 8 soild bare wire mount it on the lug for the pump, dig a ring around the pool 18 inches off the wall ,bond the pool 4 (not 3) 4 spots along the metal ring with direct burial lugs. End that bond wire at the skimmer attached to a bondsafe 680 water bond.

Give the customer the invoice,cash the check and get a 12 pack.

That is the easyiest, most economical,practical way to wire a pool.


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## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> All I do is come out of the house into a GFI outlet ,3/4 pvc in trench over to 6 ft from the pool next to the pump.
> 
> stick a pressure treated 2x6 in the ground run the pvc into a t101r time clock drill a hole straight thru the wood and mount a pvc box on the other side.
> 
> ...


 i agree- an alternative bonding to the basket is by getting a 1 1/4" threaded 6"long brass nipple attaching that to the pump and putting a ground clamp on that. 

other than that if you cant figur it out mc donalds is hiring. LOL


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

LERelec said:


> i agree- an alternative bonding to the basket is by getting a 1 1/4" threaded 6"long brass nipple attaching that to the pump and putting a ground clamp on that.
> 
> other than that if you cant figur it out mc donalds is hiring. LOL


The skimmer bond is alot cheaper (I think)

Plus I read somewhere that if you use the nipple that would mean the water is only bonded if the pump is running.

And it has to be stainless steel not brass


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## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> The skimmer bond is alot cheaper (I think)
> 
> Plus I read somewhere that if you use the nipple that would mean the water is only bonded if the pump is running.
> 
> And it has to be stainless steel not brass


you are probably right on cost & I never thought about that good call


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## Viperfx4x4 (May 28, 2011)

There is 100 ways to do the job pick one.  And different AHJ's want different things here in Mi. I can hit the pool 3 times with no problems, And some AHJ's under a homeowners permit want you to go all around the pool.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> All I do is come out of the house into a GFI outlet ,3/4 pvc in trench over to 6 ft from the pool next to the pump.
> 
> stick a pressure treated 2x6 in the ground run the pvc into a t101r time clock drill a hole straight thru the wood and mount a pvc box on the other side.
> 
> ...


IMO, if the GFCI you are using for the required receptacle and the pool pump receptacle are fed from the same circuit, as it appears here, you are violating 680.22 A 3


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> IMO, if the GFCI you are using for the required receptacle and the pool pump receptacle are fed from the same circuit, as it appears here, you are violating 680.22 A 3


Well that is the way it's been done for a long time. I have done pools ,hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pools and never once failed for that.

I did 5 pools this past week, no red stickers for me.

Would you also run another line to a furnace so that the outlet for the condensate pump wasn't on with the furnace or a pull chain light to service the furnace?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Viperfx4x4 said:


>


This picture is so 1980


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## Whatevva (May 18, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> Well that is the way it's been done for a long time. I have done pools ,hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pools and never once failed for that.
> 
> I did 5 pools this past week, no red stickers for me.
> 
> Would you also run another line to a furnace so that the outlet for the condensate pump wasn't on with the furnace or a pull chain light to service the furnace?


I got busted for this last year so now I run another dedicated circuit for the required receptacle. Just add it to the bill. Sux having to go back and do it afterwards.....


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Well that is the way it's been done for a long time.


Good enough for me! Carry on :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> All I do is come out of the house into a GFI outlet ,3/4 pvc in trench over to 6 ft from the pool next to the pump.
> 
> stick a pressure treated 2x6 in the ground run the pvc into a t101r time clock drill a hole straight thru the wood and mount a pvc box on the other side.
> 
> ...





electricmanscott said:


> IMO, if the GFCI you are using for the required receptacle and the pool pump receptacle are fed from the same circuit, as it appears here, you are violating 680.22 A 3





robnj772 said:


> Well that is the way it's been done for a long time. I have done pools ,hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pools and never once failed for that.
> 
> I did 5 pools this past week, no red stickers for me.


Scott is right, it is a violation.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Would you also run another line to a furnace so that the outlet for the condensate pump wasn't on with the furnace or a pull chain light to service the furnace?


For the pump no for the light yes


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Would you also run another line to a furnace so that the outlet for the condensate pump wasn't on with the furnace or a pull chain light to service the furnace?


The NEC allows the furnace circuit to supply a condensate pump, not lighting.



> *422.12 Central Heating Equipment. *Central heating
> equipment other than fixed electric space-heating equipment
> shall be supplied by an individual branch circuit.
> 
> ...


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> Good enough for me! Carry on :laughing:


Damn skippy

The only way to make it these days is to be as competitive as the other guys

Luckily the inspectors I deal with are able to use real world common sense.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Viperfx4x4 (May 28, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> This picture is so 1980



Yes, but a good one :thumbsup:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Viperfx4x4 said:


> Yes, but a good one :thumbsup:


 
If it wasn't so over posted


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Damn skippy
> 
> The only way to make it these days is to be as competitive as the other guys
> 
> ...


I don't disagree that things are tough or that it is a big deal to do what you describe. But IMO it's still a violation. Rather than getting bitchy you could try to show me where I'm wrong.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> I don't disagree that things are tough or that it is a big deal to do what you describe. But IMO it's still a violation. Rather than getting bitchy you could try to show me where I'm wrong.


Who was getting bitchy?

I just don't care...lol

I had a VERY rough day now I'm getting buzzed not bitchy just buzzed... :whistling2:


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## Viperfx4x4 (May 28, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> If it wasn't so over posted



Maybe, But I'm new here and have not seen it. And that picture never gets old. Don't be a DB we should be here to learn from one another, not to rip on people's post.


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