# Apprentices: What are your least favorite qualities in a journeyman?



## black (Oct 12, 2011)

Mine:
1. Not a hard worker. This leaves me in the awkward position of trying to find crap to do while he stands there with his thumb in his behind. It also results in my learning less. A telltale sign of this is that they spend a lot of time "training" you in how to look busy, how to make bad work look passable, etc.
2. Blames his mistakes on me. Nice. And yes, I will tell the whole story if my behind is on the line.
3. Unable to give clear instructions. I find this comes from a lack of clarity about his own job/goal/purpose. Frustrating.
4. Creates conflict among coworkers. Work much, speak little.


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

black said:


> Mine:
> 1. Not a hard worker. This leaves me in the awkward position of trying to find crap to do while he stands there with his thumb in his behind. It also results in my learning less. A telltale sign of this is that they spend a lot of time "training" you in how to look busy, how to make bad work look passable, etc.
> 2. Blames his mistakes on me. Nice. And yes, I will tell the whole story if my behind is on the line.
> 3. Unable to give clear instructions. I find this comes from a lack of clarity about his own job/goal/purpose. Frustrating.
> 4. Creates conflict among coworkers. Work much, speak little.



Suck it up and learn as much as you can. Someday an apprentice will be complaining about you.


----------



## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

This story is not good unless you include all names, and addresses


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I basically can't work with any journeymen or apprentices, so I'm self employed. :thumbsup:


----------



## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

Or better yet what annoys you about your apprentices?


----------



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

CanadianSparky said:


> Or better yet what annoys you about your apprentices?


An apprentice who knows it all and complains about the journeyman.


----------



## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> An apprentice who knows it all


Kaboler? lol


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Actually, OP, those four characteristics just piss me off, period. I don't care who they're coming from.

-John


----------



## adroga (Mar 3, 2011)

I don't mind a lazy electrician, while I do the work..

I DONT appreciate being blamed for something I didn't do, but what I hate the most is being told I think too much, just install pipe and don't ask questions only to find out near the end if the job that we are missing wires and the pipe is too small.... 

: (


----------



## NWsparky (Jun 27, 2011)

I am not a cub, but what still pisses me off about some JW's is:
Lack of accountability

Timeliness - getting to work or task at hand

Thinking they are above certain tasks

Lack of teaching apprentices/helpers and treating them like day laborers

Promoting themselves as the greatest in a certain field and not even knowing how to pull wire for a three way switch in a commercial setting 

Not knowing how to read the drawings correctly

Not all JW's are encompassing these traits, but I have dealt with enough that hit a few of these on the head

*also, treating company tools like crap and then saying "this company makes sooo much money they will never know if it breaks - what is $200 to them?!". That one makes me freak the F out on them


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Let's start off by saying my current journeyman is great. He goes out of his way to teach me anything new, or re-train anything i've already been taught, etc. 

But, I do have one complaint, and it's not a major one, but one that bothers me sometimes. 

I am not an incompetent fool. When it comes to working with my hands and construction, that is what I know. 

If you tell me to build a box to mount our service, you do not have to tell me to make sure it's square. I know. You also don't have to tell me to use tapcons. I know. 
You also don't need to tell me every time I build these things, to put PT wood between the wall and the enclosure. I know. 

I'm not an idiot. I am actually well educated, and can figure things out if I need to.


----------



## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Let's start off by saying my current journeyman is great. He goes out of his way to teach me anything new, or re-train anything i've already been taught, etc.
> 
> But, I do have one complaint, and it's not a major one, but one that bothers me sometimes.
> 
> ...


If you work with him everyday that's different, but I have seen lots of apps that do need to be told everything. Just when I think they understand something they figure out a new way to screw it up. 
So from the electricians standpoint it is easier to say everything I am thinking when I explain something then it is for me to wonder what this particular app knows. 

And, what is PT wood?


----------



## TattooMan (Feb 10, 2012)

First two months of me working with my current jman were great. He was teaching me a lot and **** was getting done. Then all of a sudden he flipped. Started talking **** in front of other people and other trades, felt the need to nitpick everything from how I cleaned my tools on my own time to how I climbed a ladder. I had to remind him that even though he's almost twice my age he only has 8 years experience on me in the construction field. I've been doing construction jobs for 11 years and 6 of those were my own company. Last thursday it actually blew up because he didn't like the cart that I took
To do my work. In front of everyone he was yelling about how I don't respect him as a foreman so I told him I don't give a fu c k who you are, respect is earned. I'll work for you...I'll do what I am asked to do as that is my job, but I won't respect you for being a douche. Miraculously he changed and everything is good again. 

/end rant


----------



## aDudeInPhx (Feb 20, 2012)

Pressure Treated?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Every negative about your JW, should make you all that much better of an apprentice, take advantage of the situation.

When I was a helper on a large job there was a group of JW's that road the helpers hard and constantly, called us stupid, said we would never become JW's. 

Drove me to read as much as I could, figure stuff out on my own and got my license with 2.5 years, none of them had a license.

They were dumb founded, when I flashed my license, while they laughed at me, I got the raise and since I work for money, not fun, I laughed back.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Every incompetent, lazy, backstabbing, excuse-making employee is simply an opportunity for you to shine. I admit that they make it very hard to learn, but their lack of teaching means you have to fgure things out for yourself. That'll come in handy later when you're the one being tasked with doing the job yourself. The best teachers don't convey a lot of information; they teach you how to find it.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

CraigV said:


> Every incompetent, lazy, backstabbing, excuse-making employee is simply an opportunity for you to shine. I admit that they make it very hard to learn, but their lack of teaching means you have to fgure things out for yourself. That'll come in handy later when you're the one being tasked with doing the job yourself. The best teachers don't convey a lot of information; they teach you how to find it.


 
And in todays market, you can hit this site for all your questions, BUT you are better served hitting the NEC first, then asking here for clairifications. Back in the day, we had to work for our answers.


----------



## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

aDudeInPhx said:


> Pressure Treated?


:thumbsup:


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

brian john said:


> Back in the day, we had to work for our answers.


We also had no arms or legs back then, and had to mine coal, and suck lint off carpets. We were lint-sucking, coal-mining stumps. But we were glad for what we had!!!



:laughing::laughing:





*Apologies to the late Richard Jeni...this was one of his standup acts. Hilarious guy.


----------



## ElectroBrian (Mar 25, 2011)

wow someone opened a can of worms with this thread..

Listen it's NOT journeymen vs apprentice we are in the same trade. It's probably more of a case of two people not getting along...


So lets all bring it in for a Group Hug :thumbup:


----------



## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

black said:


> Mine:
> 1. Not a hard worker. This leaves me in the awkward position of trying to find crap to do while he stands there with his thumb in his behind. It also results in my learning less. A telltale sign of this is that they spend a lot of time "training" you in how to look busy, how to make bad work look passable, etc. Don't know about the last part but why is it your concern what your JW is doing, he has most likely put in his time and thats why he has you, so "you " can do the work. We always told our helpers to look busy, if we were doing a walkthrough helpers were expected to clean the truck, job sit, etc.,anything to "look busy".
> 2. Blames his mistakes on me. Nice. And yes, I will tell the whole story if my behind is on the line. Rule Number 1, It probably is your fault, and most of the time your side of the story doesnt matter.
> 3. Unable to give clear instructions. I find this comes from a lack of clarity about his own job/goal/purpose. Frustrating. Probably thinks you ought to know more then you do, and maybe you would if you were paying attention rather then crying about him on here.
> 4. Creates conflict among coworkers. Work much, speak little.


Every electrician I have ever met, including myself thinks they are the best, at some if not all aspects of what they do.

Don't worry being a helper is rough, should motivate you more to get your license and learn from his mistakes and train your helpers the way "you" think they should be trained.


----------



## michael3 (Mar 14, 2010)

I annoys me l when I ask helper to go get something off the truck.... he gives me lip, doesn't want to go. So I turn to do it myself.... "oh wait I am just joking", said the helper.

Or I wanted a double sided ladder. 300 lbs on each side. He doesn't want to carry it cuz its heavy. This boy is 6'4 235lbs and 20 years old.


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Personally I don't like having to pick up the slack for other people, and then have to take the blame for not enough stuff getting done on time(as it is I think people's estimation of how long something "should" take is often crap). I spent last summer doing exactly that for a completely hopeless boozehound foreman and a piece of garbage company, and it was enough for me.

I also don't like when I am asked to do something I've never been done before, by someone who is unwilling to explain how to do it quickly/safely etc. Fine I'll take a crack at it but if it turns out to be crap or take forever, well. Too bad for you.


----------



## magneticpersona (Apr 28, 2012)

I dont miss my apprentice days. I would always work under assholes who treated me very badly. I had to keep my mouth shut to keep my job, but I almost came to blows with a supervisor journeyman. 

Always treat others the way you would want to be treated!


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

magneticpersona said:


> I dont miss my apprentice days. I would always work under assholes who treated me very badly. I had to keep my mouth shut to keep my job, but I almost came to blows with a supervisor journeyman.
> 
> Always treat others the way you would want to be treated!


All electricians are assholes. Now you're one too!


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Let's start off by saying my current journeyman is great. He goes out of his way to teach me anything new, or re-train anything i've already been taught, etc.
> 
> But, I do have one complaint, and it's not a major one, but one that bothers me sometimes.
> 
> ...


....and why do you know?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

magneticpersona said:


> Always treat others the way you would want to be treated!


 
As an owner I have had one or two A-hole JW's (they did not last) work for me, I always tried to tell them, that apprentice you crap on today could be your boss tomorrow. And that is a true a statement as I know.

I have seen more than one apprentice end up operating a successful company after getting out of their time.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Bbsound said:


> If you work with him everyday that's different, but I have seen lots of apps that do need to be told everything. Just when I think they understand something they figure out a new way to screw it up.
> So from the electricians standpoint it is easier to say everything I am thinking when I explain something then it is for me to wonder what this particular app knows.
> 
> And, what is PT wood?


I've worked with him almost daily since June of last year. 

PT is pressure treated. In Florida any wood touching concrete is required by code to either have a membrane (tar paper) or be pressure treated.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

sstlouis03 said:


> Don't know about the last part but why is it your concern what your JW is doing,


If my JW is standing around shooting the s**t, he's being a slacker. If he can, so can I. Don't like it? Tough s**t. Don't be standing around yapping. 

A JW is not on a special level when it comes to working a full workday. The boss is paying him 8 hours, (or whatever) so he should give him 8 hours. 



sstlouis03 said:


> he has most likely put in his time and thats why he has you, so "you " can do the work.


How can I say this nicely.......Apprentices are not your personal bitches. Now, I don't mind doing the sweeping, or cleaning, etc. But, if you think that I am going be your own personal bitch while you stand around, you got another thing coming. 



sstlouis03 said:


> We always told our helpers to look busy, if we were doing a walkthrough helpers were expected to clean the truck, job sit, etc.,anything to "look busy".


What's a helper? A guy from the labor pool? We're talking about apprentices here. (I think I found your problem. You think an apprentice is your own personal slave. Way to be the stereotypical D-Bag JW.) 

If you've had apprentices before, why weren't they doing the walk through with you? Great learning tool. Teaches them to read a blueprint accurately, teaches them to take good notes, and to understand what exactly is going on. Perfect opportunity to teach. Never pass those up. 



sstlouis03 said:


> Rule Number 1, It probably is your fault, and most of the time your side of the story doesnt matter.


Bulls**t. It's confirmed. You're the D-Bag JW that apprentices complain about. 



sstlouis03 said:


> Probably thinks you ought to know more then you do, and maybe you would if you were paying attention rather then crying about him on here.


And further evidence to support my conclusion. 



sstlouis03 said:


> Every electrician I have ever met, including myself thinks they are the best, at some if not all aspects of what they do.


I bet many are better than yourself. I mean, you seem to think an apprentice is a helper......



sstlouis03 said:


> Don't worry being a helper is rough, should motivate you more to get your license and learn from his mistakes and train your helpers the way "you" think they should be trained.


This has nothing to do with training. This has everything to do with not being a douchebag. Have some respect for your fellow human beings. 

I'm reminded of an old saying. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. 

If you're trying to teach me something, but constantly being a ****, I won't respond well to you, nor your criticisms. I will blow you off.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

360max said:


> ....and why do you know?


Why do I know what?


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I can rarely tolerate working with other people unless they know what they're doing and I don't have to babysit. This is how I usually deal with apprentices right before I choke them to death with the Force.


----------



## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> If my JW is standing around shooting the s**t, he's being a slacker. If he can, so can I. Don't like it? Tough s**t. Don't be standing around yapping.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> If my JW is standing around shooting the s**t, he's being a slacker. If he can, so can I. Don't like it? Tough s**t. Don't be standing around yapping....


 If your J-man is busy proving he's a screw-up, why would you want to follow in his footsteps?

If you work and he takes the glory, it will be hard for you to get ahead.

But if neither of you work, it will be impossible for you to get ahead.

-John


----------



## angryceltic (Feb 21, 2012)

CraigV said:


> We also had no arms or legs back then, and had to mine coal, and suck lint off carpets. We were lint-sucking, coal-mining stumps. But we were glad for what we had!!!
> 
> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> *Apologies to the late Richard Jeni...this was one of his standup acts. Hilarious guy.


And I was told the only tools you had were a hammer, star chisel and a knife.


----------



## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

No matter where you go there is always going to be one asshole you have to deal with. Eaither in school, at a party or at work. Chances are if you don't see the asshole in the room, it's because you're filling in for the roll.

As for myself, I have to work with this one JW once in awhile and he isn't that bad of a teacher. It dosen't matter who we are with, he will take the time to show me how to do something or teach me the theory behind interlocking soft starts for instance, and he will actually rather see me do the "glory work" so I learn stuff, while he sweeps up. 

The ****ty part about him is that he's an ignorant asshole when there's other people around. For instance, there was a charity drive at one of the plants we were in today so I bought two boxes of chocolate covered almonds to support some baseball team, and the first thing he says infront of 4 people is "put those back and take your money, your on a diet." (I'm 6'3" 300lbs with a farm boy build so I could stand to loose a couple pounds but I work out every day and I ain't on no diet). Another time as I'm carrying in my cooler to the lunch room infront of 40 people at a big job we were on he yells out "no wonder why your so big, I could feed my family of four out of that cooler." I have a big cooler (single handle but one of the biggest ones you can get) so I can sit on it when I'm on jobs with no lunchroom, and I have a divider I built in there where I keep my clipboard and my truck keys. All I had in there that day was a sandwich, two apples and four bottles of water but that **** sucker made it look like I was some fat bastard. He dosen't do it for fun, he does it because he's the type of person who make himself look good by putting other people down.


----------



## ilikepez (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't really know. I haven't really worked under a journeyman. Sometimes my boss gets a little too into micromanaging things when he is bored. Today he was bitching at me about wrapping a little tape around some motor leads and not wanting to use my screwdriver as a chisel.


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

jordan_paul said:


> No matter where you go there is always going to be one asshole you have to deal with. Eaither in school, at a party or at work. Chances are if you don't see the asshole in the room, it's because you're filling in for the roll.
> 
> As for myself, I have to work with this one JW once in awhile and he isn't that bad of a teacher. It dosen't matter who we are with, he will take the time to show me how to do something or teach me the theory behind interlocking soft starts for instance, and he will actually rather see me do the "glory work" so I learn stuff, while he sweeps up.
> 
> The ****ty part about him is that he's an ignorant asshole when there's other people around. For instance, there was a charity drive at one of the plants we were in today so I bought two boxes of chocolate covered almonds to support some baseball team, and the first thing he says infront of 4 people is "put those back and take your money, your on a diet." (I'm 6'3" 300lbs with a farm boy build so I could stand to loose a couple pounds but I work out every day and I ain't on no diet). Another time as I'm carrying in my cooler to the lunch room infront of 40 people at a big job we were on he yells out "no wonder why your so big, I could feed my family of four out of that cooler." I have a big cooler (single handle but one of the biggest ones you can get) so I can sit on it when I'm on jobs with no lunchroom, and I have a divider I built in there where I keep my clipboard and my truck keys. All I had in there that day was a sandwich, two apples and four bottles of water but that **** sucker made it look like I was some fat bastard. He dosen't do it for fun, he does it because he's the type of person who make himself look good by putting other people down.


Jesus, it's a jobsite big fella. Lighten up. Try giving him a little back, friendly-like, without acting like a bitch. It's a jobsite, it's what men do.


----------



## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

Honestly Black I do think you've got much of an argument here... but it's good to let off a bit of steam. Unless you've been on both sides of the fence really don't have a clue. Just wait till you become tradesman and have to put up with apprentice crap, they will do your ing head in....



black said:


> 1. Not a hard worker. This leaves me in the awkward position of trying to find crap to do while he stands there with his thumb in his behind. It also results in my learning less. A telltale sign of this is that they spend a lot of time "training" you in how to look busy, how to make bad work look passable, etc.


Hang on... If he's not a hard worker then there's obviously work to be done.. and why are you also standing there with him doing bugger all? If you can't find anything to do ask him what needs doing rather than doing nothing yourself.



black said:


> 2. Blames his mistakes on me. Nice. And yes, I will tell the whole story if my behind is on the line.


 
Bit of clarrification would be good...
If you do something and stuff it up....then yes it's most likely gonna be your fault.



black said:


> 3. Unable to give clear instructions. I find this comes from a lack of clarity about his own job/goal/purpose. Frustrating.


Well if you actually listen to what he's telling you to do this won't be a problem. 
Again if your still unclear of what he's asking you to do, then get him to explain to you. Don't just go off and attempt to do the job knowing you have no idea what he's told you to do.



black said:


> 4. Creates conflict among coworkers. Work much, speak little.


This is known as company politics... You just need to get over them and grow a pair.


----------



## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Jesus, it's a jobsite big fella. Lighten up. Try giving him a little back, friendly-like, without acting like a bitch. It's a jobsite, it's what men do.


There's fun ribbing and then there's actual picking on people. He does the same kind stuff to his wife infront of people as well.


----------



## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> If my JW is standing around shooting the s**t, he's being a slacker. If he can, so can I. Don't like it? Tough s**t. Don't be standing around yapping.
> 
> A JW is not on a special level when it comes to working a full workday. The boss is paying him 8 hours, (or whatever) so he should give him 8 hours.
> 
> ...


Good think your opinion means nothing to me and I'm not a douchbag JW. I'm beyond those days. Now I'm you "MASTER". Haha. 

I think what we have is a difference of circumstance here buddy. Your a big city boy and we are hard working oil field guys. Yes our apprentices are referred to as "helpers" around here and yes I was that ass hole you speak of but guess what I have learned from my mistakes and have used them to better manage my guys now. We were brought up different, was I treated like ****? Yes everyday, did I treat my "helpers" like ****? Yes I did at first but I turned it around and am now well respected because I give it. Stop taking every post on this website up the ***. There is such thing as sarcasm, I know that a new thing for you but it does exist.


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

jordan_paul said:


> There's fun ribbing and then there's actual picking on people. He does the same kind stuff to his wife infront of people as well.


Point taken.


----------



## chris856 (Jun 12, 2009)

I hate working with bitter journeymen who hate their jobs and bitch constantly.


----------



## 3rdgenwireman (Dec 12, 2010)

NWsparky said:


> I am not a cub, but what still pisses me off about some JW's is:
> Lack of accountability
> 
> Timeliness - getting to work or task at hand
> ...


You must be a Foreman w/ ten + years for one company :laughing:


----------



## 3rdgenwireman (Dec 12, 2010)

brian john said:


> As an owner I have had one or two A-hole JW's (they did not last) work for me, I always tried to tell them, that apprentice you crap on today could be your boss tomorrow. And that is a true a statement as I know.
> 
> I have seen more than one apprentice end up operating a successful company after getting out of their time.


Yeah, all his knowledge and skill allowed him to go out on his own, "thanks to those assholes." Right or wrong there is always something to be learned working with another.....


----------



## chewy (May 9, 2010)

What you girls want to do is fill in a hurt feelings report, then change your tampons and get back to work. These guys arent your parents or school teachers... some of you guys would be in tears by smoko on a site in Aussie or NZ. If someones taking the piss out of you, take the piss out of him back for goodness sake, dont get emotional like a woman.


----------



## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

brian john said:


> As an owner I have had one or two A-hole JW's (they did not last) work for me, I always tried to tell them, that apprentice you crap on today could be your boss tomorrow. And that is a true a statement as I know.
> 
> I have seen more than one apprentice end up operating a successful company after getting out of their time.


well, there is the silver teaspoon in a six foot ditch award.
all of us will have a lovely list of people i'm sure we'd bestow this upon.

with a couple of glaring exceptions, i was treated pretty well by most
everyone when i was a muppet. 30 years later, i can remember who
they were, both good and bad. does it really matter? no.

did i learn from them? yeah, and for that i'm grateful. a few years back,
i made an observation that some of the newer crop of journeymen i was
working around, did not impress me all that much... now, that smacks of
middle aged arrogance, so i tried to separate the BS in my head from fact.

and i concluded my data was skewed. people are people, but what i did
notice was a hugely different work ethic that seemed to pervade the
younger members of the group i was working among.... and in that,
i think my observations of the group i was working in were accurate.

does it really matter? nope. some of those fine folks are still working
there, and have been making steady checks for a lot of the last economic
period, while my income has been erratic, depending on work, or the 
lack of it.

is it based on ability? sometimes it's just the luck of the draw.

what really matters, is that in the morning, when i get up, that i
fit myself to be of maximum service to those around me. if i 
sincerely take such a position, i find that all of my needs are met.

it may be working as an electrician, or something else entirely.

what i have learned, is that sitting around complaining about all
the a$$holes who have treated me so poorly, the wrongs of others,
real or imagined, have the power to destroy the quality of my life.

you know who taught me that? it wasn't the "nice" folks i worked for,
it was the a$$holes.

i owe them a lot.


----------



## Ontariojer (May 19, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Let's start off by saying my current journeyman is great. He goes out of his way to teach me anything new, or re-train anything i've already been taught, etc.
> 
> But, I do have one complaint, and it's not a major one, but one that bothers me sometimes.
> 
> ...


Me: Have you drilled holes in brick before?
Apprentice: Yes, of course! I havemy gasfitters license you know.
Me: are you wondering why it's takng so long?
Apprentice: yeah! (as he pulls a red hot smoking regular steel twist bit out of the hole)


Repeat this type of conversation/scenario with different common trade/construction tasks for a month. Goodbye.


Experience has taught GOOD journeymen that when MY license is on the hook, I'm going to make sure YOU are doing it my way.:whistling2:


----------



## cguillas (Jun 25, 2009)

Ontariojer said:


> Me: Have you drilled holes in brick before?
> Apprentice: Yes, of course! I havemy gasfitters license you know.
> Me: are you wondering why it's takng so long?
> Apprentice: yeah! (as he pulls a red hot smoking regular steel twist bit out of the hole)
> ...


With the right hammer drill you could go through brick with a spoon, if they made them with an SDS handle...


----------



## adroga (Mar 3, 2011)

I have no problem as an apprentice, heck even as a journeyman to be questioned and told how to do something if the person in charge wanted it done a certain way... Either foreman or boss, after all it's not my ass on the line.

But what I hate, absolutely hate is when I'm told I have to crap on you because that's what I went through as an apprentice.... That's such an ancient mode of thinking that will get you nowhere. I'm grateful for everyone journeyman I've worked with, the good ones have taught my invaluable skills, and the bad ones have shown me what mistakes to avoid..

Why can't we all get along and just respect each other as people... As long as they are hard workers and give it their all. It's inevitable sine people might work more slowly, or not be as smart ... Who cares..


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

adroga said:


> I have no problem as an apprentice, heck even as a journeyman to be questioned and told how to do something if the person in charge wanted it done a certain way... Either foreman or boss, after all it's not my ass on the line.
> 
> But what I hate, absolutely hate is when I'm told I have to crap on you because that's what I went through as an apprentice.... That's such an ancient mode of thinking that will get you nowhere. I'm grateful for everyone journeyman I've worked with, the good ones have taught my invaluable skills, and the bad ones have shown me what mistakes to avoid..
> 
> Why can't we all get along and just respect each other as people... As long as they are hard workers and give it their all. It's inevitable sine people might work more slowly, or not be as smart ... Who cares..


 
I blame SDS (Small **** Syndrome)


----------



## adroga (Mar 3, 2011)

It's always the guys who brings up size that has the smallest pecker BTW


----------



## MaxFuse (Oct 23, 2011)

Sounds like those bad JW's have already forgotten where they came from, and what they went through to get there.
Drama in the workplace blows, we all have enough elswhere in our lives.
I would never treat anyone the way I was treated, and I have reaped the benefits of creating great help and someone that tries to watch my back.
Almost every apprentice I have worked with have become good friends and are now good JW's.

Unfortunately this causes some apprentices to lose the desire to learn, especially working with a JW that can't teach and explain the "why".
Because "I said so"-is not an answer.:no:


----------



## fondini (Dec 22, 2009)

I think it should be mandatory for all apprentice's to watch Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino. Several times.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Jesus, it's a jobsite big fella. Lighten up. Try giving him a little back, friendly-like, without acting like a bitch. It's a jobsite, it's what men do.


No, that's what assholes do. Especially if they're not on a level of rapport where that would be acceptable. Sorry.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

sstlouis03 said:


> Good think your opinion means nothing to me and I'm not a douchbag JW. I'm beyond those days. Now I'm you "MASTER". Haha.


Delusions. 



sstlouis03 said:


> I think what we have is a difference of circumstance here buddy. Your a big city boy


No, actually, I am no such thing, but nice assumption. 




sstlouis03 said:


> and we are hard working oil field guys.


Sorry, your definition of hard work, were my days off relaxing. 



sstlouis03 said:


> Yes our apprentices are referred to as "helpers" around here and yes I was that ass hole you speak of but guess what I have learned from my mistakes and have used them to better manage my guys now.


And yet, you come here and completely disrespect someone, try to belittle them because of their current position, and then try to play it off like you're Mr. Nice Guy. I'm calling bulls**t. 



sstlouis03 said:


> We were brought up different, was I treated like ****? Yes everyday, did I treat my "helpers" like ****? Yes I did at first but I turned it around and am now well respected because I give it.


But yet, you come here, and talk all this smack. Sorry sir, you're not fooling me. 



sstlouis03 said:


> Stop taking every post on this website up the ***. There is such thing as sarcasm, I know that a new thing for you but it does exist.


I am fluent in 3 languages; English, asskicking, and sarcasm. 

I won't stand by while you or anyone else tries to put someone down, or belittle them. I haven't in the past, and won't do it in the future. 

If you have such a disrespect for "helpers" then fine, but keep it to yourself. I won't stand idly by and watch you make yourself look all high and mighty at the expense of another.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Big John said:


> If your J-man is busy proving he's a screw-up, why would you want to follow in his footsteps?
> 
> If you work and he takes the glory, it will be hard for you to get ahead.
> 
> ...


Very true, and good point.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Ontariojer said:


> Me: Have you drilled holes in brick before?
> Apprentice: Yes, of course! I havemy gasfitters license you know.
> Me: are you wondering why it's takng so long?
> Apprentice: yeah! (as he pulls a red hot smoking regular steel twist bit out of the hole)
> ...


So, your apprentice didn't know to use a concrete bit and didn't know to use a hammer drill? 

Sounds like an idiot. 

Here's how my conversations go: 

JW: Do you know how to do X?
Me: Nope, teach me. 

or 

JW: Do you know how to do Y?
Me: Yes, first you do this....this....then this.....is that the way you want me to do it? 
JW: Yes/No
Me: Ok, perfect/teach me how you want it done. 


You see sir, here's the difference between myself and many other apprentices. I've been in a much more difficult trade, one that you very well could lose your life or the life of people around you, by making even the most simple mistakes. My life depended on people around me being 100% accurate, 100% of the time. Mistakes costed lives. More so than most other trades, with a few exceptions. (Crab fisherman for example) 

So, I am not your run of the mill, 20 something kid. This is not my first rodeo.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Some guys think they're "journeymen" because they've worked a certain length of time. That doesn't qualify them as anything other than someone who's worked for awhile asan electrician.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

3rdgenwireman said:


> Yeah, all his knowledge and skill allowed him to go out on his own, "thanks to those assholes." Right or wrong there is always something to be learned working with another.....


 
My point is treat people like you want to be treated. Almost all apprentices that ever worked with I would say I treated them fairly and the ones that would bad mouth me are in a grave somewhere under 6' of dirt.

You have to work at being an A-hole, being nice should come naturally.


----------



## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> I won't stand by while you or anyone else tries to put someone down, or belittle them. I haven't in the past, and won't do it in the future.
> 
> If you have such a disrespect for "helpers" then fine, but keep it to yourself. I won't stand idly by and watch you make yourself look all high and mighty at the expense of another.


My apologies officer. I didn't realize you were an internet rent a cop.


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> No, that's what assholes do. Especially if they're not on a level of rapport where that would be acceptable. Sorry.


Go get an office job Mary.


----------



## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Let's start off by saying my current journeyman is great. He goes out of his way to teach me anything new, or re-train anything i've already been taught, etc.
> 
> But, I do have one complaint, and it's not a major one, but one that bothers me sometimes.
> 
> ...


They probably tell you that stuff because they've had a dozen others who didnt do it correctly unless every tiny step was explicitly spelled out, and even then they still did it half assed. BTW this does not just apply to apprentices or even new jmen. We've seen it way too many times with guys with tears of experience who you would think would know better. (they dont last too long with us)

I bet once they see you dont need explicit instructions they stop and let you fly. Unfortunately more do than dont. It also probably comes down to personaly style as well as their standards.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

sstlouis03 said:


> My apologies officer. I didn't realize you were an internet rent a cop.


I wouldn't call it that. I'd call it standing up for someone else. Maybe I just have more respect for my fellow human beings than others. Maybe it's because I was taught to treat others how I want to be treated, and stand up for the little guy. 

So, if you want to continue to TRY to belittle me, feel free. It's only proving my point that you are still a douche.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

yrman said:


> They probably tell you that stuff because they've had a dozen others who didnt do it correctly unless every tiny step was explicitly spelled out, and even then they still did it half assed. BTW this does not just apply to apprentices or even new jmen. We've seen it way too many times with guys with tears of experience who you would think would know better. (they dont last too long with us)


Most likely true. But, you would think that after almost an entire year, he'd understand I am not his typical apprentice. 

It's even more amusing, because the other part time Jman and the owner, don't do it. Just him. 



yrman said:


> I bet once they see you dont need explicit instructions they stop and let you fly. Unfortunately more do than dont. It also probably comes down to personaly style as well as their standards.


He does have a different personality. He's a super nice guy, but he worries WAY too much, and frets over every little thing. 

For instance: Our boss is incredibly laid back, and very easy to get along with. Hell, we hang out in his shop on the weekends and drink beer with him. We go out on the 4-wheelers, we fish etc. 

But my J-man, will almost DAILY tell us that we HAVE to hurry, we're taking too much time, and if not, our boss is gonna be mad. 

He's not. He will call and joke that we're taking too long, but it's just that, a joke. He'll stress himself out over it, wondering if he was serious....


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Go get an office job Mary.


Really son? Really? I mean, you're funny and all, but you don't know jack **** about me. So, before you go run your mouth, maybe you should do yourself a favor, and check your mouth at the door. K pumpkin? 

Thanks.


----------



## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Really son? Really? I mean, you're funny and all, but you don't know jack **** about me. So, before you go run your mouth, maybe you should do yourself a favor, and check your mouth at the door. K pumpkin?
> 
> Thanks.


Maybe you should heed your own advice.


----------



## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

brian john said:


> the ones that would bad mouth me are in a grave somewhere under 6' of dirt.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

jordan_paul said:


> No matter where you go there is always going to be one asshole you have to deal with. Eaither in school, at a party or at work. Chances are if you don't see the asshole in the room, it's because you're filling in for the roll.
> 
> As for myself, I have to work with this one JW once in awhile and he isn't that bad of a teacher. It dosen't matter who we are with, he will take the time to show me how to do something or teach me the theory behind interlocking soft starts for instance, and he will actually rather see me do the "glory work" so I learn stuff, while he sweeps up.
> 
> The ****ty part about him is that he's an ignorant asshole when there's other people around. For instance, there was a charity drive at one of the plants we were in today so I bought two boxes of chocolate covered almonds to support some baseball team, and the first thing he says infront of 4 people is "put those back and take your money, your on a diet." (I'm 6'3" 300lbs with a farm boy build so I could stand to loose a couple pounds but I work out every day and I ain't on no diet). Another time as I'm carrying in my cooler to the lunch room infront of 40 people at a big job we were on he yells out "no wonder why your so big, I could feed my family of four out of that cooler." I have a big cooler (single handle but one of the biggest ones you can get) so I can sit on it when I'm on jobs with no lunchroom, and I have a divider I built in there where I keep my clipboard and my truck keys. All I had in there that day was a sandwich, two apples and four bottles of water but that **** sucker made it look like I was some fat bastard. He dosen't do it for fun, he does it because he's the type of person who make himself look good by putting other people down.


You should have knocked him out with all of your 300 pounds... On a few occasions.:thumbsup:


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

This thread is great.

I've worked with several "journeymen" that were simply experienced apprentices. Tough talk with no substance.

It's like when you realize your parents, or teachers are people, just as severely flawed as the rest of them. They can be wrong about things, and be stubborn about it. The only j-men I really didn't like working with were ones that really didn't want to work with _anyone._


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Really son? Really? I mean, you're funny and all, but you don't know jack **** about me. So, before you go run your mouth, maybe you should do yourself a favor, and check your mouth at the door. K pumpkin?
> 
> Thanks.


Nope, don't know you, but I have gotten to read the book you've posted for everyone to read. From what I gather: you are a brilliant apprentice, far superior to the herd. Yet you need to be told exactly how to do every task because no one trusts you to do it right. And your 'nice' journeyman sucks because he worries about pulling his job in on time, even though the boss isn't as concerned. Got it. What a loser for trying to make the company money and motivating you guys to stop making a career out of bending 20' of 1/2 inch.

I know which guys I need to give extremely explicit instructions. The ones you walk through it, write it down, draw a picture, then walk away shaking your head, KNOWING their just gonna crap all over it. That ain't you though....right?


----------



## Blay (May 3, 2012)

So ive been reading this thread for a little bit now and I think what it all comes down too, If its anyway on the job like it is on here, is your bad attitude.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Nope, don't know you, but I have gotten to read the book you've posted for everyone to read.


Awesome. Did you learn anything sir? I certainly hope so. 



OaklandElec said:


> From what I gather: you are a brilliant apprentice, far superior to the herd.


I never said brilliant. Don't put words in my mouth. I did however say that I am above the run of the mill, 20 something apprentices. I am also well educated, and have 2, yes 2 bachelors degrees. So, yes, far superior to the common apprentice. You're correct there. 



OaklandElec said:


> Yet you need to be told exactly how to do every task because no one trusts you to do it right.


No, not at all. Don't lie. I specifically stated that if my Jman tells me to do something that I don't know how to do, I will ask to be taught. 

Perhaps your problem is reading for comprehension? I can recommend a local college to take courses if need be. Just let me know. 




OaklandElec said:


> And your 'nice' journeyman sucks because he worries about pulling his job in on time, even though the boss isn't as concerned. Got it.


Not what I said at all. Just that he worries himself about every little thing. I highly suspect that reading and understanding what you've read is not your cup of tea. 



OaklandElec said:


> What a loser for trying to make the company money and motivating you guys to stop making a career out of bending 20' of 1/2 inch.


Never called him a loser. That is entirely on you. Perhaps you should go back and read what i've posted. I'll help you with the big words and their meanings if need be. 



OaklandElec said:


> I know which guys I need to give extremely explicit instructions. The ones you walk through it, write it down, draw a picture, then walk away shaking your head, KNOWING their just gonna crap all over it. That ain't you though....right?


Nope, not at all. In fact, quite the opposite. Do I make mistakes? Sure. Do I ask for clarification if needed? Sure. Do I mess things up on a regular basis? Nope. Not even close. 


Now, go back and start over, read what I posted, and before you make assumptions, feel free to ask for clarification. Oh, and seriously consider taking those reading for comprehension classes. They might do you some good.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Blay said:


> So ive been reading this thread for a little bit now and I think what it all comes down too, If its anyway on the job like it is on here, is your bad attitude.


I'm assuming that you're referring to the OP?


----------



## adroga (Mar 3, 2011)

Wow... It's like a convention of Internet bullies here.


----------



## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Very entertaining though.....:thumbup:


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Awesome. Did you learn anything sir? I certainly hope so.
> 
> I never said brilliant. Don't put words in my mouth. I did however say that I am above the run of the mill, 20 something apprentices. I am also well educated, and have 2, yes 2 bachelors degrees. So, yes, far superior to the common apprentice. You're correct there.
> 
> ...


So...take your 2, yes, 2 Bachelor's degrees, and go get you that desk jockey job you've been dreaming of. You can even wear slacks on Fridays.

You're right though, I do need reading comprhension help. I read all your posts and thought you were just a really 'special' apprentice. Now I see you've got a massive superiority complex too.

Roll those 2, yes, 2 degrees up real tight, then sit on 'em and spin. All they qualify you for in this world is extra broom pushing duty. Lemme guess, you already get it, and your JW needs to explain that real well too?


----------



## BennettElectric (Jul 7, 2011)

I had a girl in my class who had a BA and yes, a master's degree. She would get all pissed off when anyone tried to tell her anything because as a well educated and by no means run of the mill apprentice she already knew everything she needed to know. She saw every attempt at offering advice as micromanaging. She was sure that because she was a little older than most helpers and certainly more educated, she should somehow be offered a higher level of respect than other helpers. We were on the same job together for a few months. There were thirteen people on that crew...guess who was first to get the layoff check?
Yeah, some J men are pricks. Some helpers could probably afford a lesson in humility. And I'm not saying this as a bitter old JW. I'm a fifth year apprentice who shows up every day, works his ass off, does what he's told, and if offered advice by a micromanaging JW, just shuts up and works harder to prove he's worth keeping on the job.


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

BennettElectric said:


> I had a girl in my class who had a BA and yes, a master's degree. She would get all pissed off when anyone tried to tell her anything because as a well educated and by no means run of the mill apprentice she already knew everything she needed to know. She saw every attempt at offering advice as micromanaging. She was sure that because she was a little older than most helpers and certainly more educated, she should somehow be offered a higher level of respect than other helpers. We were on the same job together for a few months. There were thirteen people on that crew...guess who was first to get the layoff check?



What was TooFarFromFenway doing taking a class with you in NY?


----------



## angryceltic (Feb 21, 2012)

I must say I must have won the lottery because the foreman and three JW I'm working with treat me just like I treated my coworkers in my past profession.


----------



## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

Sounds like TooFarFromFenway is another one of those apprentices trying to justify his own existance...... I really dislike those kinds of apprentices.....I really really do.......


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

Just to throw this out there, I have 5 apprentices, 4 of whom are awesome. I try to spend time teaching them, because they are smart and need to grow. Am I sometimes a jerk to them? Probably, because I am actually a jerk most of the time. But I try not to be one, try to be understanding, and try to be fair. That goes for the four good ones. The 5th is no longer allowed on my jobs, except to deliver or pick stuff up. He gets chewed out every time I see him. He is an idiot, compounded with a huge attitude problem, and is a whiner and sneak to boot. Don't care about being nice to him.

When the apprentices here turn out, and get their own jobs to run, they will see all the additional BS and pressure we have to deal with that they don't see. I'm not saying its OK to treat people like crap, but just that you'll see things differently from the otherside of the fence. And, all jokes aside, construction is different than other professions. Behavior like spitting on the floor, cursing out other trades, messed up jokes, etc, would all get you fired in the white collar world. Hell, I like spitting on the floor. Just saying.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> So...take your 2, yes, 2 Bachelor's degrees, and go get you that desk jockey job you've been dreaming of. You can even wear slacks on Fridays.
> 
> You're right though, I do need reading comprhension help. I read all your posts and thought you were just a really 'special' apprentice. Now I see you've got a massive superiority complex too.
> 
> Roll those 2, yes, 2 degrees up real tight, then sit on 'em and spin. All they qualify you for in this world is extra broom pushing duty. Lemme guess, you already get it, and your JW needs to explain that real well too?


First off, i've never had, nor ever wanted a desk job. Now will I ever. So, with that we can reasonably conclude that you know &[email protected]: all about me. I prefer to keep it that way. You're an Internet and real life bully who thinks that everyone is below you, and that your $&@$ doesn't stink. Guess what champ? You're wrong. 

Superiority complex? Says the one who calls an apprentice a helper. 

If you had even bothered to ask what my degrees were in, you would have realized I'm qualified to be your boss. So, I'll take my two BA's and laugh all the way to the bank while you're still being someone else's bitch.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Aussielec said:


> Sounds like TooFarFromFenway is another one of those apprentices trying to justify his own existance...... I really dislike those kinds of apprentices.....I really really do.......


If I were to be laid off tomorrow, I would not only still fish and hang out with my boss, but could find another job the next workday. My boss doesn't need to employ me, but he does. Just like your boss doesn't need you either. We're all replaceable. Perhaps one day you will realize that.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Just to throw this out there, I have 5 apprentices, 4 of whom are awesome. I try to spend time teaching them, because they are smart and need to grow. Am I sometimes a jerk to them? Probably, because I am actually a jerk most of the time. But I try not to be one, try to be understanding, and try to be fair. That goes for the four good ones. The 5th is no longer allowed on my jobs, except to deliver or pick stuff up. He gets chewed out every time I see him. He is an idiot, compounded with a huge attitude problem, and is a whiner and sneak to boot. Don't care about being nice to him.
> 
> When the apprentices here turn out, and get their own jobs to run, they will see all the additional BS and pressure we have to deal with that they don't see. I'm not saying its OK to treat people like crap, but just that you'll see things differently from the otherside of the fence. And, all jokes aside, construction is different than other professions. Behavior like spitting on the floor, cursing out other trades, messed up jokes, etc, would all get you fired in the white collar world. Hell, I like spitting on the floor. Just saying.


Oh no, you're not trying to justify being an ass to someone. Right.... Your words in this very post prove otherwise. 

If you want to be an ass, that's fine. But at least be willing to admit it. I'm one too at times. Here's the difference. I don't come to work to make friends. I come to work to make money. If someone like yourself doesnt like me, guess what? I'll build a bridge, and get over it.


----------



## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

Well I can deffinitely say I'm an ass, When apprentices rock up late or half dressed, missing there work top or boots or required tools for the days work or simply turn up to the wrong job site I'm ass to them. When they screw up simple jobs that have been explained to them over and over again or completely do the opposite to what I've told them to do I'm an ass to them. When they complain about sweeping floors or cleaning the jobsite up or backchat, ignore me or try to dictate how the jobs going to be run I'm an ass to them. So yes I guess I'm an ass......

At the end of the day TooFarFromFenway I don't know your situation and you don't know mine but your an apprentice which puts you a the bottom of the totem pole whether you like it or not... despite how many fancy bit's of paper you have....Qualifications do not show that a person is compentent. They merely get you a job.... it's then up to you to keep that job. Remember this.....


----------



## adroga (Mar 3, 2011)

Hope your electrical skills are better than your spelling.. 

😳


----------



## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

adroga said:


> Hope your electrical skills are better than your spelling..
> 
> &#55357;&#56883;


Yeah that's me typing to quickly....
Are you Happy now?:no:


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> First off, i've never had, nor ever wanted a desk job. Now will I ever. So, with that we can reasonably conclude that you know &[email protected]: all about me. I prefer to keep it that way. You're an Internet and real life bully who thinks that everyone is below you, and that your $&@$ doesn't stink. Guess what champ? You're wrong.
> 
> Superiority complex? Says the one who calls an apprentice a helper.
> 
> If you had even bothered to ask what my degrees were in, you would have realized I'm qualified to be your boss. So, I'll take my two BA's and laugh all the way to the bank while you're still being someone else's bitch.


I've called apprentices 'aprentices' quite liberally throughout every post. And actually, all of my guys are classified as 'electrical trainees' here. Aprentices are only through the union or ABC or equivilent; we are neither.

As for your degrees qualifying you to be anyone's boss, you are mistaken. You'd actually need to have electrical experience, and a license to be a contractor. Give it 5-10 years, then let me know when you're hiring. Unlike in the white collar world, you actually have to earn your place as a sparky. You're motivated, and you eventually will. But you haven't yet, and your 2, yes, 2 degrees won't make that happen any sooner.

Until then, have fun with that broom.


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> Oh no, you're not trying to justify being an ass to someone. Right.... Your words in this very post prove otherwise.
> 
> If you want to be an ass, that's fine. But at least be willing to admit it. I'm one too at times. Here's the difference. I don't come to work to make friends. I come to work to make money. If someone like yourself doesnt like me, guess what? I'll build a bridge, and get over it.


I don't need to justify it: I'm in charge.


----------



## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

I'm not an apprentice, but I don't like it when a JW makes an apprentice carry his tools or clean his mess.


----------



## Aussielec (Apr 1, 2012)

sparky970 said:


> I'm not an apprentice, but I don't like it when a JW makes an apprentice carry his tools or clean his mess.


Well I'm not going carry my own tools there heavy.... Especially after I throw in a few decent sized ballast's...:laughing:

As far as cleaning up my mess, part of the training to becoming a tradesman is learning to clean up after yourself...


----------



## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

Hey to far away ive been on the top of the pile and now am on the bottom again.. were in construction if we werent breaking each others balls all day wed be bored out of our minds... my partner does the same he breaks my balls especilly in front of people .i make a point of telling the crowd that he acts like a **** when he has an audiance after i pretend to cry off in the corner . Its tradtion jackass . There trying to break you ... leave your feelings at the door.. what matters really tho is does he actually take care of you and so on..


----------



## ilikepez (Mar 24, 2011)

Oh another one. I don't like journeyman who show up drunk or high to work.


----------



## bobmarlon (Oct 31, 2011)

Im an apprentice who worked for an asshole so I started sending out resumes. Now I'm happy. 

My biggest jw pet peeve is when the jw has none of his own tools and he misuses your ****.

My biggest apprentice pet peeve is when another guy has no tools and misuses your ****.


----------



## yungun (Oct 7, 2011)

i hate it when my boss doesn't let me take long lunches and breaks. Or gets onto me about my work "not being up to code". Its like he thinks its his job or something to come bug me.......

Honestly tho, I used to get irritated when a JW would tell me to do or how to do stuff I already "knew" but now that I don't have someone like that above me anymore I kind of miss it. Looking back, it certainly was nice having someone double checking all my work and someone to ask for advice/help with problems.

Now, I think the only things that I will not put up with is when someone is misinforming me or someone else in front of me(about work..gotta let some bs go..), or just flat out disrespect. I've found that if your boss likes to lean on you, he will continue to do so until you are holding him up. Then things are a little different.


----------



## yungun (Oct 7, 2011)

bobmarlon said:


> Im an apprentice who worked for an asshole so I started sending out resumes. Now I'm happy.
> 
> My biggest jw pet peeve is when the jw has none of his own tools and he misuses your ****.
> 
> My biggest apprentice pet peeve is when another guy has no tools and misuses your ****.


I guess my last post wasn't true. There is quite a few things that I wouldn't put up with, just fortunately haven't had some of these problems yet. Its amazing how ridiculous some people can be.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Aussielec said:


> Well I can deffinitely say I'm an ass, When apprentices rock up late or half dressed, missing there work top or boots or required tools for the days work or simply turn up to the wrong job site I'm ass to them. When they screw up simple jobs that have been explained to them over and over again or completely do the opposite to what I've told them to do I'm an ass to them. When they complain about sweeping floors or cleaning the jobsite up or backchat, ignore me or try to dictate how the jobs going to be run I'm an ass to them. So yes I guess I'm an ass......


And IMO, then you'd be justified. 



Aussielec said:


> At the end of the day TooFarFromFenway I don't know your situation and you don't know mine but your an apprentice which puts you a the bottom of the totem pole whether you like it or not...


I understand completely that I am at the bottom of the totem pole. I have no problem with that. Everyone starts at the bottom in most construction trades. I hope you don't think I am upset about that, i'm not. I have to do it to advance my career. 



Aussielec said:


> despite how many fancy bit's of paper you have....Qualifications do not show that a person is compentent. They merely get you a job.... it's then up to you to keep that job. Remember this.....


I understand that completely.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> I've called apprentices 'aprentices' quite liberally throughout every post. And actually, all of my guys are classified as 'electrical trainees' here. Aprentices are only through the union or ABC or equivilent; we are neither.


After I called you on calling them helpers. Feel free to prove me wrong. Good luck. 



OaklandElec said:


> As for your degrees qualifying you to be
> anyone's boss, you are mistaken.


Ok champ. Keep believing that. 



OaklandElec said:


> You'd actually need to have electrical experience, and a license to be a contractor.


Correct. Never debated that champ. 



OaklandElec said:


> Give it 5-10 years, then let me know when you're hiring.


I would never hire you, no offense. I don't like people who treat other people like s**t, and think they are better than everyone else. 



OaklandElec said:


> Unlike in the white collar world, you actually have to earn your place as a sparky. You're motivated, and you eventually will. But you haven't yet, and your 2, yes, 2 degrees won't make that happen any sooner.


Never claimed it would. Strawman. 



OaklandElec said:


> Until then, have fun with that broom.


I will. I sometimes even ride it like it's a horse.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

pistol pete said:


> Hey to far away ive been on the top of the pile and now am on the bottom again.. were in construction if we werent breaking each others balls all day wed be bored out of our minds...


Giving each other a hard time is one thing. Trying to belittle someone is another. Being an ass, above and beyond the normal asshattery, is another. 



pistol pete said:


> my partner does the same he breaks my balls especilly in front of people .i make a point of telling the crowd that he acts like a **** when he has an audiance after i pretend to cry off in the corner . Its tradtion jackass .


I understand tradition jackass. I've been in the construction industry for quite some time. 



pistol pete said:


> There trying to break you ... leave your feelings at the door.. what matters really tho is does he actually take care of you and so on..


My actual boss, yes. Quite well actually. Perhaps you didn't see my original post ITT. I love my JW. He is more than willing to teach me something, no complaints there.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

bobmarlon said:


> Im an apprentice who worked for an asshole so I started sending out resumes. Now I'm happy.
> 
> My biggest jw pet peeve is when the jw has none of his own tools and he misuses your ****.
> 
> My biggest apprentice pet peeve is when another guy has no tools and misuses your ****.


I don't mind people using my tools for a minute. Even the newest apprentice, because I understand he's just starting out. Tools are expensive. 

But, don't let me see you out drinking on the weekend, and still not have a set of handtools. Buy your own tools. And if you borrow mine, put it back where you found it when you're done. 

I couldn't agree more. Treat my tools like I treat them, not how you treat them.


----------



## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> I will. I sometimes even ride it like it's a horse.


Nice!




Still never called anybody a helper. You called stlouis out on that. We are actually 2 different people. You can tell by the different screen names.


----------



## FireInTheWire (Oct 30, 2011)

I feel pretty lucky about my situation- I'm a first year apprentice on a moderately large job and I have gotten to work with most of the journeymen. All of them except for one of the foremen are really good about explaining and I don't feel like they treat me as sub-human at all, even though I am as green as grass ! 

Also, it's MY responsibility to learn what I need to know whether the journeyman takes the time to show me or not. That's why we have instructors and apprentice school. :thumbup:

I always put forth my best attitude (even when I have to go clean up everyone's bone piles LOL) and work as productively as I can. When I feel like I am getting walked on by everyone else, I just remember that if I work hard, someday I'll be the foreman


----------



## ilikepez (Mar 24, 2011)

bobmarlon said:


> Im an apprentice who worked for an asshole so I started sending out resumes. Now I'm happy.
> 
> My biggest jw pet peeve is when the jw has none of his own tools and he misuses your ****.
> 
> My biggest apprentice pet peeve is when another guy has no tools and misuses your ****.


Oh how I hate that.


----------



## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Nice!
> 
> Still never called anybody a helper. You called stlouis out on that. We are actually 2 different people. You can tell by the different screen names.


I will continue to call them helpers. That's industry standard around here, it's not meant to be offensive and no one takes it offensively. I was a "helper" for 3 years before I ran my own truck and I still refer to approximately 40 of my employees as helpers because that's what they are and there is no offense involved with calling them that. Stick to your Boston lingo and don't worry about mine prick.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Nice!
> 
> Still never called anybody a helper. You called stlouis out on that. We are actually 2 different people. You can tell by the different screen names.


My apologies sir.


----------



## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

sstlouis03 said:


> . Stick to your Boston lingo and don't worry about mine prick.


And yet, my conclusion still stands. In fact, it's even more confirmed now. 

Have a good day.


----------



## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> And yet, my conclusion still stands. In fact, it's even more confirmed now.
> 
> Have a good day.


And you do the same.


----------



## NJWVUGrad (May 12, 2011)

Well to get back on topic...

2nd year apprentice, I worked with a guy that didn't talk to me at all, would just rattle off some material and I'd have to play guess what we are building.

So I would try to anticipate what he would need next and he would scoff and throw it back at me because "we're not doing it that way". So after a month of this, I just stopped bringing him stuff and just ask him what he needed, then he would pitch a fit because "your supposed to be anticipating this stuff, not just asking me"

I've seen this approach discourage alot of well motivated, and smart apprentices. Don't take it it out on the kid because your a bipolar, [email protected]## who hates his life.

End rant


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

NJWVUGrad said:


> Well to get back on topic...
> 
> 2nd year apprentice, I worked with a guy that didn't talk to me at all, would just rattle off some material and I'd have to play guess what we are building.
> 
> ...


There's more than one way to skin a cat. If you annoy him enough maybe you'll get lucky and get to work with someone else.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

The problem is that it really doesn't take any people skills, or management skills, to get a journeyman's license.

But journeymen, by default, are expected to train and manage the next generation of apprentices.

-John


----------



## NJWVUGrad (May 12, 2011)

Frasbee said:


> There's more than one way to skin a cat. If you annoy him enough maybe you'll get lucky and get to work with someone else.



I guess I worded that wrong...I was a 2nd year apprentice at the time im a JW nwo - this was about 8 years ago


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

NJWVUGrad said:


> I guess I worded that wrong...I was a 2nd year apprentice at the time im a JW nwo - this was about 8 years ago


In that case, what are your least favorite qualities about yourself?


----------



## Scott_w (Jan 1, 2012)

I am still fairly new to the game, still in my first year, although I'm a very mechanically inclined person. I started late, I am 38, and the funny thing is my jw is younger than me (by about 5 years), but still calls me kid. LOL

So far, I have been REALLY fortunate and have been matched up with a great journeyman. He threw me right into the fire my first day and its been solid learning since. I am already bending emt like a champ, while some other 3rd and 4th years on the current job can't do simple runs. He admits his limitations and we work together to figure stuff out. Never would he ever throw me under the bus like some others have mentioned.

I did have one small problem, he teased me about being back on the job too quick after breaks (we had lunch in completely different areas). Once I explained to him that I felt it would be an insult to him if he was there first and that I haven't earned that right (to be late), he finally understood and appreciated it.

I hear some apprentices complain that their jw is lazy etc, but is he really? or is is REALLY HELPING you? Allowing you to actually do the work instead of letting you watch him or just run for materials is a HUGE advantage for you to learn! There is nothing like hands on learning.

I've also heard of apprentices complain about unloading trucks and stocking materials. Again, always look at the tasks as opportunities! You get to learn new materials, and know WHERE they are kept. On large jobsites an apprentice that can find materials in a pinch makes the jw look really good! I'm on a new 1M sqft hospital right now and can generally find any materials throughout the building within 5-10 mins. Other apprenices just say.. "i dunno" :blink: and are sometimes gone for an hour or so.

Instead of complaining, look for the positive. Sometimes jw pretends to forget things to see what you remember. In my opinion my job as an apprentice is to make sure everything is readily available for the jw and any "loose ends" are not forgotten, even if I have to make notes.

So far loving every minute of it. :thumbup:


----------



## FireInTheWire (Oct 30, 2011)

Scott_w said:


> I am still fairly new to the game, still in my first year, although I'm a very mechanically inclined person. I started late, I am 38, and the funny thing is my jw is younger than me (by about 5 years), but still calls me kid. LOL
> 
> So far, I have been REALLY fortunate and have been matched up with a great journeyman. He threw me right into the fire my first day and its been solid learning since. I am already bending emt like a champ, while some other 3rd and 4th years on the current job can't do simple runs. He admits his limitations and we work together to figure stuff out. Never would he ever throw me under the bus like some others have mentioned.
> 
> ...


You rock. This is me- I am first year and always tell myself that there is value in all tasks I am given- even unloading trucks, etc. 

Also, never ever complain and show appreciation always for having work!


----------



## Bright_Light (Jul 13, 2011)

Wow, glad I found this. I just started in the trade last year and begun in the union this February. Due to being with a local non-union contractor, I couldn't deal with inconsistent hours, and he had a 4th year apprentice and therefore could not register me.
Anyways, right now I'm pre-apprentice in low-rise, and unfortunately got paired with the biggest a-hole of the company, no other workers want to work with him, tells my boss that they'll quit if they have to work with the guy.
It's bad, he humiliates me, verbally abuses me, tells me I'm not right for the trade, threatens my employment with the company...etc.
Funny thing is I still continue to work with the guy, I help him pull houses, do 100% of cutting in, do multi-million dollar custom homes. I've worked with 2-4yr apprentices of the company and am on their level as far as skill is concerned.
I basically cannot defend myself in anyway or he get's ultra offensive so the whole day I keep quite, listen to what he has to say and do it. We don't sit together at break or lunch.
Was considering asking my boss to pair me up with someone else.
I've worked with other journeyman and have had mutual respect for one another and everyone else seems to love me, but this guy is just brutal.
I'll be 1st year in a few months and maybe I'll ask my boss then about it, because there's no way this is moral.
There's been talk about bi-polar JM, and this guy takes the cake. Gets pissed off telling me he said something even though he clearly didn't, that's the most frustrating thing, but it's obvious he wants to work with me, I don't get it. He even admits to being an ass and "old-school", tells me I'm going to learn the same way he was taught.
Apparently I have the record for time spent working with him at 10months. It's just unfair.


----------



## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

TooFarFromFenway said:


> If my JW is standing around shooting the s**t, he's being a slacker. If he can, so can I. Don't like it? Tough s**t. Don't be standing around yapping.
> 
> A JW is not on a special level when it comes to working a full workday. The boss is paying him 8 hours, (or whatever) so he should give him 8 hours.
> 
> ...


You wouldn't last a day.


----------



## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

My favourite journeymen are the ones that know they are still in the trades, and this **** is not rocket surgery and dont act like it is, regardless of the trade. T

My least favourite are the rammy assholes who think this is science of the brain, and that you should be grateful to be given the chance for 4 years of labour and some schooling.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I was a helper for 2.5 years and being called a helper never hurt my overly sensitive feelings.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

brian john said:


> I was a helper for 2.5 years and being called a helper and it never hurt my overly sensitive feelings.


Never hurt my feelings. 
Everyone gets their time in the barrel. 
Even now if I'm sent to a job to help someone, I do what ever that electrician needs done. That includes sweeping the floor or humping material. 
I make a good Indian unless I see they are about to make a big mistake. Then I'll speak up.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Never hurt my feelings.
> Everyone gets their time in the barrel.
> Even now if I'm sent to a job to help someone, I do what ever that electrician needs done. That includes sweeping the floor or humping material.
> I make a good Indian unless I see they are about to make a big mistake. Then I'll speak up.


I was always a good helper, when I was a helper and when I became a JW, I still do coffee runs still clean up 42 years later. It is all necessary work.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

brian john said:


> I was always a good helper, when I was a helper and when I became a JW, I still do coffee runs still clean up 42 years later. It is all necessary work.


Walk into a junk filled machine room were I have just finished working and you can pick out were I was. 
It will be the only clean & swept spot on the floor.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

I've worked with opposing philosophies.

1.) The apprentice/helper should be ready with the next required tool, should fetch the material, move the ladder, should clean up after the journeyman.

2.) The apprentice/helper is the one doing the majority of the work as the jman supervises, and the simple responsibilities like cleaning/organizing are shared by both.


----------



## Sven89 (Nov 25, 2012)

After being an apprentice for a few companies and being a successful journeyman for a service driven company I have noticed a few things. First when I was an apprentice I had a J-man that had a rough apprenticeship and would take it out on me. He expected everything without giving an ounce of respect. Nothing was more frustrating then doing your best and still being yelled at. It just drove me to work harder. There is defiantly an aspect of perseverance being an apprentice, whoever there are expectations that j-man have of their apprentices. I have trained a few apprentices from first day on and there is one constant. They think they know things they don't. We as J-man are responsible for the job. Wether it be the work completed, meeting the target of the quote or the impression of the customer. We are the ones that have to answer to the boss and it can be stressful. I have been on many jobs where my apprentice would stand there and just look bored, or worse but in when they have nothing productive to add to the conversation. This, I find concerns the customer as they then wonder why they are paying to talk to 2 people when one would do. This is the time for the apprentice to clean or find something to do. I strongly feel that an apprentice is a reflection of the J-man they work with. I do my best to teach when I can but sometimes the student does not want to learn or listen. It is your job to learn and listen, once you have listened then you must prove that you have learned and prove to us that we can trust you to do the task consistently to our standards. At that time we then move on to something else. Apprenticeship training is a non stop learning process and once you get your ticket you just learn more from your peers. Just try to get along with your co-workers, you don't need to respect them as a person, but you should be able to respect them as a trained professional and a teacher, once you can do that it makes it easier for us to respect what you know and have learned.


----------

