# No receptacle in bathroom



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I just recently bought a house that's 35 years old and with a basement apartment. The bathroom in the apartment has no receptacle. Is this a Canadian Electrical Code violation? If it is, what is the least expensive way to put the bathroom up to code? I'm reading through the 2009 book and all I can find is that the receptacle must be a GFCI but I can't find whether there must be a receptacle or not. I don't want to feel like a slumlord if I try to rent the apartment out without a receptacle in place.

Thanks!


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

There must be a receptacle, the reason being that otherwise people will run a cord into the bathroom from a non gfi outlet. I have seen inspectors make landlords upgrade their properties.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I had a home inspection done but he failed to point out the absense of a receptacle. Should I contact him about this?

If the result is that I must upgrade it myself do I need to hire an electrician?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

in u.s. rules, yes and yes


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

What should I do?


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

Install a receptacle?


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

How do I do this when there's none present? Doesn't it need to be on a 20A circuit? In that case one needs to be wired back to the panel, which is going to cost a fortune.


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

I just figured out that you have no way to pull a permit, therefor need to hire an electrician.
No, it does not have to be a homerun circuit.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Great. It's extremely hard to hire an electrician around here for a small job like this and I need this apartment ready in two weeks.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

It's your property. Just tap a receptacle circuit off the lights. If anybody asks, it was like that when you got there


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

But this would not be code then correct?


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. the codes don't apply to existing work. So, if it was like that when you got there......


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

The bathroom is on the same wall as the kitchen. Is there a way I could tap into the GFCI located there? The kitchen and bathroom are on opposite sides.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

electricnewf said:


> The bathroom is on the same wall as the kitchen. Is there a way I could tap into the GFCI located there? The kitchen and bathroom are on opposite sides.


I wouldn't put it on the kitchen circuit. If it's a small bathroom, just put a gfci receptacle next to the light switch. Conductors are right there. Just need to cut out for a bigger box and you're done

^^ I guess if you only have a switch leg there then that won't work and you'll just have to go fish


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Problem is, the switch is in the hallway, outside of the bathroom door. How about if I run wire from the light above the vanity to the GFCI and connect it to the line side?


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

bkmichael65 said:


> It's your property. Just tap a receptacle circuit off the lights. If anybody asks, it was like that when you got there


It is his property, but if he rents it out it is different. Under normal circumstances it would be grandfathered. In this area when it is a rental they force updates like hard wired smokes and gfi's.

Just leave it for now and rent it out to a guy. He won't care anyway.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

So it would be illegal to power a GFCI from the light on the wall?


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

electricnewf said:


> So it would be illegal to power a GFCI from the light on the wall?


You could always just buy a light fixture that has a receptacle built into it. I don't do residential work, but I'm sure they probably have those on the market


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## farlsincharge (Dec 31, 2010)

electricnewf said:


> So it would be illegal to power a GFCI from the light on the wall?


No, that is fine



bkmichael65 said:


> You could always just buy a light fixture that has a receptacle built into it. I don't do residential work, but I'm sure they probably have those on the market


I believe we have a rule that prohibits that specifically.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Your basement suite is probably an illegal suite, so what do electrical codes matter? Go to the AHJ for permits and they'll make you rip the suite out.

But I digress.. the bathroom does not need to be 20A, and does not need to be dedicated and only needs to be GFCI if within 5ft of the washbasin or bath/shower and cannot be within... I thiiiiiink cannot be within 1ft of the tub regardless of gfci. Might 1.5ft. I dunno, it's in the code book.

So anyway.. just pull off the lighting circuit, do some fishing, cut in a box and make magic happen. Now you can charge an extra $100/mo rent.


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## HadItUpToHere (Aug 16, 2013)

I would suggest hiring someone since you don't sound like you know very much about this kind of thing.

It's pretty simple, it really wouldn't cost you a fortune. 

They'll just take power off the lighting circuit that's already in the bathroom. No holes in the drywall if they know what they're doing. They'll just throw an EZ box in and a GFCI plug on there.

No permit necessary. It was like that when you got there.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

It is NOT an illegal apartment. I wouldn't have gotten a mortgage unless it was registered with the city, and I have the papers to prove it. The house is over 30 years old so maybe back then an outlet in the bathroom wasn't required. 

This is what I want to do:










I know I need to fish the wire but the problem is getting the wire from the light box to the location where I want the GFCI to be. What's the best way to do this? 

And yes, I'm a little rusty on my electrical skills but I know what I need to do and this is a simple job which shouldn't require me to call a contractor. They wouldn't do a job like this very fast anyway. I'd be waiting months.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Do you even have power in that light box or do you want to switch the gfci as well?


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

There's no power in there, just the wires to the fan and light going back to the switch, so the GFCI would have to be switched as well.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Oh well, better than nothing I suppose.

What I would do:

Find the stud at that spot you want the receptacle, make sure you're not on it. Cut a rectangle the size of a credit card, drill horizontally with to the stud space of the light box, with a flex bit or whatever works for ya. Then take some 14/2, cut all back except bond wire, make a loop with it on the end and push it through that hole. Then fish down from the light box with fish sticks or tape and a hook on the end. Find the wire, hook the end and pull the cable up into the light box. Install an easy box for the gfci.

That's what I'd try.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I will try that and post the result.

Unfortunately the panel is too far away from the bathroom so I would need to do a new rewire which is probably not possible at this point. Well possible, but very expensive.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

electricnewf said:


> Well possible, but very expensive.


Yeah electricians are expensive.

Wait, what's going on here!


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

FrunkSlammer said:


> Wait, what's going on here!


You mean to have the GFCI on its own power, correct?


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## e909 (Sep 4, 2013)

It wasn't code 35 years ago to provide a receptacle in a bathroom. Why do you have to upgrade?

FWIW, current code reads:
(f) at least one receptacle shall be installed in each bathroom and washroom with a wash basin(s) and shall be located within 1 m of any one wash basin;
(g) receptacles installed in bathrooms shall, where practicable, be located at least 1 m but in no case less than 500 mm from the bathtub or shower stall, this distance being measured horizontally between the receptacle and the bathtub or shower stall, without piercing a wall, partition, or similar obstacle;

CEC doesn't require homerun circuit - but I would limit the circuit as much as practicable.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

e909 said:


> CEC doesn't require homerun circuit - but I would limit the circuit as much as *practicable*.


Holy damn. We have a straight up CSA board guy here!

There's only two places I've ever seen the word practicable used. One is in every paragraph of the Canadian Electrical Code, and the other is in your comment reply.

You just blew your cover! Now who are?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electricnewf said:


> Great. It's extremely hard to hire an electrician around here for a small job like this and I need this apartment ready in two weeks.


In your profile it says you are an apprentice. I assume this profile was created in 4 years ago when you joined. Aren't YOU an electrician by now? :001_huh:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

e909 said:


> It wasn't code 35 years ago to provide a receptacle in a bathroom. Why do you have to upgrade?.....


'Cuz it's a *rental.*



electricnewf said:


> I just recently bought a house that's 35 years old and with a basement apartment. The bathroom in the apartment has no receptacle. ..........


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## e909 (Sep 4, 2013)

480sparky said:


> 'Cuz it's a *rental.*


I'm not aware of anything that requires rentals to be brought up to current codes unless being modified of course.

Still, the OP claims this job will cost too much, but if he isn't sure how to do it, it will likely save him money by bringing an electrician in.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

e909 said:


> I'm not aware of anything that requires rentals to be brought up to current codes unless being modified of course.
> 
> Still, the OP claims this job will cost too much, but if he isn't sure how to do it, it will likely save him money by bringing an electrician in.



Many AHJs have strict codes adopted concerning rentals. The 'Grandfather Clause' doesn't exist in those cases. Many AHJs also have annual rental inspections.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

first off the power should be routed through the gfci outlet first then on to the switch and light if you are going to use that circuit
if you place the switch before the gfci you will probably end up having to reset the gfci every time you turn the switch on.
second this decision (upgrading) is up to the owner of the property


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

gnuuser said:


> first off the power should be routed through the gfci outlet first then on to the switch and light if you are going to use that circuit
> if you place the switch before the gfci you will probably end up having to reset the gfci every time you turn the switch on......


They only 'self-test' when power is first applied. After that, they stay on.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

480sparky said:


> They only 'self-test' when power is first applied. After that, they stay on.


 Except for these wonderful things from Leviton...
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=otNq6Q0x26KfTjYnEeqVGA

^^ PDF. 

The website...
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=47134&minisite=10251

Self test every 15 minutes.

Now I'll go test mine in the bathroom. Been fifteen years I think.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

gnuuser said:


> first off the power should be routed through the gfci outlet first then on to the switch and light if you are going to use that circuit
> if you place the switch before the gfci you will probably end up having to reset the gfci every time you turn the switch on.
> second this decision (upgrading) is up to the owner of the property


I had 2 bathrooms in my house that were switched lights & GFCI. The GFCI's worked fine, and never tried from being switched on or off.

It just sucks because that can be a lot of power going through the switch. Also sucks if like me, you have an electric shaver that self cleans. Gotta keep the lights on while it's running.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

daveEM said:


> Except for these wonderful things from Leviton...
> http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=otNq6Q0x26KfTjYnEeqVGA
> 
> ^^ PDF.
> ...


yeah leviton can be a pain 
Im trying to get our supplier to get different brands.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

So you gotta reset all your GFCI's every time the power goes out?

Replace 'em with P&S. They're designed for the real world.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

FrunkSlammer said:


> I had 2 bathrooms in my house that were switched lights & GFCI. The GFCI's worked fine, and never tried from being switched on or off.
> 
> It just sucks because that can be a lot of power going through the switch. Also sucks if like me, you have an electric shaver that self cleans. Gotta keep the lights on while it's running.


You can fix the 2nd problem right?

The first problem doesn't exist in a CSA approved switch.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

gnuuser said:


> yeah leviton can be a pain
> Im trying to get our supplier to get different brands.


First I like your sig... the stupid part. 

I have a couple of pond pumps. I know the condo association volunteers just plug them into my gfi receptacle. Wouldn't even cross their minds to push the test button. 

I'll be changing them out to the self testers next spring... effen HD up here has the snow blowers out.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

daveEM said:


> You can fix the 2nd problem right?
> 
> The first problem doesn't exist in a CSA approved switch.


What and what and who and whaaaaaa?


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## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

Do yourself a favor, save a few bucks, hire a pro


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