# My first 200amp upgrade project and got some questions.



## Jlarson

What is the POCO going to do, a new areal feed to the new service location?


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## TOOL_5150

You must charge over 9000

~Matt


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## Jlarson

TOOL_5150 said:


> You must charge over 9000
> 
> ~Matt


Are we to assume some PWI is going down? :yes:


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## TOOL_5150

Jlarson said:


> Are we to assume some PWI is going down? :yes:


I wish I knew what that meant.

~Matt


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## Alphapower

the owner of the house already talk with SCE and they are going to feed the lines to new location


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## Jlarson

TOOL_5150 said:


> I wish I knew what that meant.
> 
> ~Matt


What are you so bombed that you forgot what Posting While Intoxicated was abbreviated as...


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## TOOL_5150

Jlarson said:


> What are you so bombed that you forgot what Posting While Intoxicated was abbreviated as...


haha.. did that answer your question.?

IDK what id do W/O suds


~Matt


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## Jlarson

Alphapower said:


> the owner of the house already talk with SCE and they are going to feed the lines to new location


Why don't you mount a surface mount panel put a mast up through the overhang and conduit up into the attic. At the old panel location put a jbox over where the old meter was and conduit up into the attic. Run between the two and your done. Less work that way.


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## TOOL_5150

Jlarson said:


> Why don't you mount a surface mount panel put a mast up through the overhang and conduit up into the attic. At the old panel location put a jbox over where the old meter was and conduit up into the attic. Run between the two and your done. Less work that way.


Thats what I would do, but it seemed like a DIY question, so I elected to not answer it.

I would, however, still charge over 9000


~Matt


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## Alphapower

one of the reason that the owner want the panel on side is because he is planning on expansion on the future.Now I'm going to double check that all wires are coming from the top of the panel. Whats the best way on putting the jbox and splice the existing wires so it can reach the new location.


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## McClary’s Electrical

TOOL_5150 said:


> Thats what I would do, but it seemed like a DIY question, so I elected to not answer it.
> 
> I would, however, still charge over 9000
> 
> 
> ~Matt


 

I agree, anybody that needs help with this service change, should not be doing it. Let me guess,,,,homeowner permit, right?


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## Alphapower

no, actually I'm a license electrical contractor and fully bonded. I just got my license. As you can see i don't have much experience on residencial I'm more an Industrial type of electrician.


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## Jlarson

Alphapower said:


> ...I'm more an Industrial type of electrician.


So am I :shifty:


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## Alphapower

Ok thx y'all for ur opinions goods or bads they count.


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## RIVETER

It sounds as though the meter and panel have to go because the addition will be tied to that wall, is that right? If so, could you turn the existing box around and face it inside and use it as a junction box and feed it from the new panel? I am not a residential guy either so correct me if I missed something.


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## oldtimer

I M O, your best bet is...... HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN!!!!! :whistling2:


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## RxScram

Have either you or the homeowner contacted SCE to get a meter spot performed? From the picture, I'm guessing no, since SCE tapes a bright orange sticker to where they want the new meter to go. 

What direction are the power lines coming from, in relation to the new location? Make sure you comply with 230.24, regarding clearances.


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## doubleoh7

Before I offer some ideas, let me ask a question. Are you still on the 2008 NEC or are you on the 2010 NEC?


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## Jlarson

doubleoh7 said:


> Before I offer some ideas, let me ask a question. Are you still on the 2008 NEC or are you on the 2010 NEC?


Good question


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## RxScram

Jlarson said:


> :blink: Did someone forget to tell me something... :laughing:


lol. Where have you been? :laughing:


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## doubleoh7

RxScram said:


> lol. Where have you been? :laughing:


 




I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.


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## RIVETER

doubleoh7 said:


> I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.


So you've been drinking again.


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## doubleoh7

RIVETER said:


> So you've been drinking again.


 

I only drink the finest breasss milks.


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## RIVETER

doubleoh7 said:


> I only drink the finest breasss milks.


I can't fault you there.:thumbsup:


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## RIVETER

doubleoh7 said:


> Before I offer some ideas, let me ask a question. Are you still on the 2008 NEC or are you on the 2010 NEC?


It was just available 11 days ago. Even the writers haven't read it yet.


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## RIVETER

I guess Alphapower went to sleep but I'd like to as the rest of you guys...Do you think the existing panel could be just turned around and used as a j-box facing the inside?


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## Jlarson

doubleoh7 said:


> I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.


What do you have against communists... Some of those Red Army chicks were hot. 

:laughing:


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## Jlarson

RIVETER said:


> I guess Alphapower went to sleep but I'd like to as the rest of you guys...Do you think the existing panel could be just turned around and used as a j-box facing the inside?


I wouldn't even go that far, I would just mount a JB over it like I said earlier.


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## RIVETER

Jlarson said:


> I wouldn't even go that far, I would just mount a JB over it like I said earlier.


Well, I was going by him saying that it had to be moved for an addition, and possibly could not be there in the future at all.


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## Jlarson

RIVETER said:


> Well, I was going by him saying that it had to be moved for an addition, and possibly could not be there in the future at all.


If there was a chance that wall would be affected I would pull the branch circuits up into the attic and junction them up there.


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## RIVETER

Jlarson said:


> If there was a chance that wall would be affected I would pull the branch circuits up into the attic and junction them up there.


It doesn't look to me to be enough wire to do that, but again, I don't know.


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## doubleoh7

If all of the branch circuits run directly up to the attic, it would not be TOO bad. Generally speaking, these things are ball busters. I done enough of em to know. Sometimes you just gotta tear some **** up.They are a lot easier for guys who are not knowledgeable of code issues and don't give a damn.


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## Jlarson

doubleoh7 said:


> If all of the branch circuits run directly up to the attic, it would not be TOO bad. Generally speaking, these things are ball busters. I done enough of em to know. Sometimes you just gotta tear some **** up.They are a lot easier for guys who are not knowledgeable of code issues and don't give a damn.


But tearing sh1t up can be fun.


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## RIVETER

doubleoh7 said:


> If all of the branch circuits run directly up to the attic, it would not be TOO bad. Generally speaking, these things are ball busters. I done enough of em to know. Sometimes you just gotta tear some **** up.They are a lot easier for guys who are not knowledgeable of code issues and don't give a damn.


The circuits coming down from the attic would be okay but the ones from below would be too short, I believe.


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## Jlarson

RIVETER said:


> The circuits coming down from the attic would be okay but the ones from below would be too short, I believe.


If that was the case I would take a piece of sheet metal and with a little work on a sheet bender I would make a cover for the old panel and gut it and use it as a jbox, if that was going to be turned into a finish room a flush JB on the other side of the wall would be an option I would look at too.


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## doubleoh7

RIVETER said:


> The circuits coming down from the attic would be okay but the ones from below would be too short, I believe.


 
Yes, That is why it is hard for us to figure out a job for a guy like this. We do not have all the info. If he is what he says he is, he really should be able to analyze the situation and think his way through it. I am assuming this house is on a slab and that all of the cables may very well go straight to the attic. But I'd have to see for myself.


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## RIVETER

doubleoh7 said:


> Yes, That is why it is hard for us to figure out a job for a guy like this. We do not have all the info. If he is what he says he is, he really should be able to analyze the situation and think his way through it. I am assuming this house is on a slab and that all of the cables may very well go straight to the attic. But I'd have to see for myself.


I see your point if it is a slab, but I would be thinking about making the j-box accessible.:thumbsup:


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## doubleoh7

If ALL of the branch circuits go to the attic , they can be cut up there, then spliced in j boxes up there as well. The meter can/ breaker combo can be removed from the wall entirely.

I fear that the OP is in over his head. I suspect that he is not an electrician at all. I suppose it is possible that he is and has only done industrial work????


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## doubleoh7

Jlarson said:


> What do you have against communists... Some of those Red Army chicks were hot.
> 
> :laughing:


 
Communism is the focus of evil in the modern world.


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## Jlarson

doubleoh7 said:


> Communism is the focus of evil in the modern world.


Yeah ok but, hot red army chicks... :laughing:


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## TOOL_5150

OP must be union.


~Matt


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## guest

Crazy idear that might work..if space in the attic permits I would cut the riser, put an LB on it and feed the old circuits down the riser into the old panel. 

Odds are that at least one of those old circuits is feeding in from the bottom (the one for the receptacles) as that;s how it was with the last few service changes I did.

Actually, IIRC Zinsco panels don't have any KO's on top so I think all of them will be from the bottom.


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## doubleoh7

I just finished up a new 200 amp service tonight. I missed the mark on it. I figured 24 hours labor into my proposal, but it ended up taking closer to 32. Oh well it happens. I missed the mark on material as well. Not a very profitable job, but I think I gained a lifelong customer.

It was a 100 year old farmhouse with a 100 amp pole mounted service and Federal Pacific panel. The home was fed overhead from the pole. now it is a 200 amp pole mounted service feeding underground to the home. I relocated the panel as well. 

What really killed me on it was that I included 3 new circuits to feed the dryer, water heater, and septic tank aerator. They were all fed from a single 40 amp breaker with #10 cable. I planned on running the new circuits down the wall under the panel and through the crawl space. I found out that the wall has a huge solid sill under it and I could not get through it. So I had to route the cable through the attic, across 2 additions and back down to the basement. One of the additions had no access to the attic so I had to create it.


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## slowforthecones

doubleoh7 said:


> I just finished up a new 200 amp service tonight. I missed the mark on it. I figured 24 hours labor into my proposal, but it ended up taking closer to 32. Oh well it happens. I missed the mark on material as well. Not a very profitable job, but I think I gained a lifelong customer.
> 
> It was a 100 year old farmhouse with a 100 amp pole mounted service and Federal Pacific panel. The home was fed overhead from the pole. now it is a 200 amp pole mounted service feeding underground to the home. I relocated the panel as well.
> 
> What really killed me on it was that I included 3 new circuits to feed the dryer, water heater, and septic tank aerator. They were all fed from a single 40 amp breaker with #10 cable. I planned on running the new circuits down the wall under the panel and through the crawl space. I found out that the wall has a huge solid sill under it and I could not get through it. So I had to route the cable through the attic, across 2 additions and back down to the basement. One of the additions had no access to the attic so I had to create it.


 yikes.. talk about a loss leader!


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## doubleoh7

I gave up over 8 hours of labor, and lost a good part of my material markup. I could hand wring about it, but it happened. Life goes on. On a positive note, I gained a good customer. The mistake was mine.


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## Magnettica

Question, what is the difference between industrial electricity and residential electricity?


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## doubleoh7

Nothing. I had that actual question on a test in my first few weeks of trade school.


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## doubleoh7

Industrial electric work and residential electric work are very different. I have to be part carpenter to do work on some of the old houses I have worked on. Being part magician helps too.


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## wayne g

doubleoh7 said:


> Before I offer some ideas, let me ask a question. Are you still on the 2008 NEC or are you on the 2010 NEC?


 what 2010 NEC ?????? :no:


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## RxScram

Magnettica said:


> Question, what is the difference between industrial electricity and residential electricity?


Residential electricity just tickles a little bit. Industrial electricity kills ya! :laughing:


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## electagb

wayne g said:


> what 2010 NEC ?????? :no:


 Wayne is right, it's 2011 NEC, every three years unless I'm missing something.(Maybe my code book is a misprint?)


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## Wirenuting

Magnettica said:


> Question, what is the difference between industrial electricity and residential electricity?


They only difference in requirements is when you work in a power house. Then you come under the NESC. 
Of course I'm not talking about the type of work, just who's rules we follow.


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## McClary’s Electrical

electagb said:


> Wayne is right, it's 2011 NEC, every three years unless I'm missing something.(Maybe my code book is a misprint?)


 

Yeah,,,,,you're missing something. That question was a trick question to find out if the op was a DIY. Thanks for blowing it Sherlock:whistling2:


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## doubleoh7

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yeah,,,,,you're missing something. That question was a trick question to find out if the op was a DIY. Thanks for blowing it Sherlock:whistling2:


 

Yes, I am not as stupid as I look.


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