# electric tankless water heaters?



## jiggawatt79 (Apr 28, 2012)

Have you guys run across these? I am in the process of wiring and 18 KW water heater. This lady insists on electric. Now the utility company is going to charge her an arm and a leg to upgrade her service and transformer. They don't seem to be efficient at all. The first water heater she looked at was even bigger. It took 3- 2 pole 40A circuits . The one she settled on takes 2- 2 pole 40's.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

Installed four so for on new construction. Had to up grade their service just for the water heaters. I do not recommend them. It may be cheaper to get gas to the house.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I did one that took two 80 amp circuits. The efficiency comes from not heating water you don't need.


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## jiggawatt79 (Apr 28, 2012)

this customer is not wanting any gas in the house. The problem is, I already roughed in the house (including the water heaters) complete with 200A service. Now she will either have to pay through the nose to get the 200 amps or switch to gas.


What does a shower cost at that rate 40 bucks?


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## jiggawatt79 (Apr 28, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I did one that took two 80 amp circuits. The efficiency comes from not heating water you don't need.


can you elaborate? Are they efficient? Would you put one in your house?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jiggawatt79 said:


> can you elaborate? Are they efficient? Would you put one in your house?


 
A normal water heater heats the entire tank only to later cool off at night and kick on again. These don't heat the water unless you're using hot water. How much does a normal water tank run while you're at work or sleeping?


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> A normal water heater heats the entire tank only to later cool off at night and kick on again. These don't heat the water unless you're using hot water. How much does a normal water tank run while you're at work or sleeping?


as Mcclary said, plus it gives you hot water as long as you want it, they do not run out because they heat it as you use it.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I would love to get a gas one put in my house.. But i hear mixed results about the lack of hot water when the flow of the hot water is low. Like if you want tepid water or luckwarm... its either hot or cold.... 

Not sure if its all true but i would hate to install one and find out the hard way...

Anyone ever come across one..? 

Some people say its smarter to install a small 5 gallon water heater in front of it so you always have quick hot water and not heating up a 50 gallon tank.. 

When my water heater kicked the bucket back in 06 i wasnt sure about them so i just installed a new 40 gallon tank..


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## thoenew (Jan 17, 2012)

captkirk said:


> I would love to get a gas one put in my house.. But i hear mixed results about the lack of hot water when the flow of the hot water is low. Like if you want tepid water or luckwarm... its either hot or cold....
> 
> Not sure if its all true but i would hate to install one and find out the hard way...
> 
> ...


My coworker built a new house this past winter and put a gas tankless in and says he is very glad he did. He no longer has to deal with cold showers. There is always the option of running a re circulation line to help with getting hot water faster. The couple we've dealt with there is no "only hot or cold" problems. Works just as good as tanked water heater.

The last few geothermal furnace/AC we've wired took 2 60A and 1 30A circuit.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

Love my gas tankless. Paid twice as much for the tankless about two years ago and as of now love it.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Oh wait .... my dad had one put in too around 95 when he rebuilt his house .... I remember now... it never really got the water hot when you took a shower...I would imagine they put one in that was too small...

Whats the life expectancy on those units..? Sucks i just put my tank in at 06. I would like to get some more use out of it... 

Did you guys notice a reduction in your gas consuption..?


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

They are completely common in europe and asia. They are wonderful for people who don't shower daily. Of course, in asia and europe, they are affixed to the wall in the bathroom, and are completely on-demand. They usually won't have a hot water tap.

North Americans need a hot water tap, so the electric water heater, if it's a whole-house thing in the basement, has to heat quite a bit of water before you get hot water. North Americans like hot water very very dangerously hot, so the lady might have to get used to having the hot at 100% and being just at a comfortable level.

If the lady can completely eliminate gas from her house, that's probably 40 or 50 bucks a month she's eliminating just for administration charges.

How big is her house? I can't imagine they'd want her to get 200a service. I guess the hot water heater has 2 elements, 1 for each 2p? But then again, if she's running the dishwasher, dryer, and having a shower, she could fill up that 200a pretty fast!


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

I'd guess if you never run out of hot water, it can be cost prohibitive if you have teenagers that like to take an hour shower.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Ask any plumber around here. Gas tankless Yes, electric tankless NO!
Also, if you're in a colder climate, it takes longer to heat the water, especially if you have well water. I have a customer with one. They have hot/cold spurts during showers all the time. They wanted a larger unit until I told them they would have to upgrade their service.
Even if it saves some vs a tanked heater, it takes so long for a ROI it's not worth it. Also, these tankless heaters do break and wear out. About the time you expect your ROI, it's time to start repairing it.
If you must have one, go Gas!!


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## jiggawatt79 (Apr 28, 2012)

kaboler said:


> They are completely common in europe and asia. They are wonderful for people who don't shower daily. Of course, in asia and europe, they are affixed to the wall in the bathroom, and are completely on-demand. They usually won't have a hot water tap.
> 
> North Americans need a hot water tap, so the electric water heater, if it's awhole-house thing in the basement, has to heat quite a bit of water before you get hot water. North Americans like hot water very very dangerously hot, so the lady might have to get used to having the hot at 100% and being just at a comfortable level.
> 
> ...



900 square feet :laughing:


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## jiggawatt79 (Apr 28, 2012)

Little-Lectric said:


> Ask any plumber around here. Gas tankless Yes, electric tankless NO!
> Also, if you're in a colder climate, it takes longer to heat the water, especially if you have well water. I have a customer with one. They have hot/cold spurts during showers all the time. They wanted a larger unit until I told them they would have to upgrade their service.
> Even if it saves some vs a tanked heater, it takes so long for a ROI it's not worth it. Also, these tankless heaters do break and wear out. About the time you expect your ROI, it's time to start repairing it.
> If you must have one, go Gas!!


Even the plumber told her no, she was hell bent on the electric.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

jefft110 said:


> I'd guess if you never run out of hot water, it can be cost prohibitive if you have teenagers that like to take an hour shower.


Just try moi I have oil fired tank water heater and it did NOT ever ran out of hot water when my daughters used the shower et bath at the same time it did handle pretty good.

But once that oil fired water heater go fritz either I will think go with gaz tankless or stay on oil fired tankless if I can find that beast I know there is someone did make that.

Electrique verison ?? Naw not for whole house verison but point of use then oui, I can use it. ( our electrique rates is pretty high if you are not carefull with timming ) 

Merci,
Marc


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Theriot said:


> Installed four so for on new construction. Had to up grade their service just for the water heaters. I do not recommend them. It may be cheaper to get gas to the house.




Seems like a business opportunity to me. :thumbsup:


The generator for this place just went up in value too! :thumbup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Solar water heaters here stay so hot all the time they routinely pop the red reset button on the t-stats open. So come January when it does get dark and cloudy for a week or more, the hot water runs out, and I get 50 call outs to come check out why the customers got cold water all of a sudden. Ka-ching.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Solar is king where you hail from Mac, my Hot h20 is wood fired here

but to the OP>


lie #1>



> Lower your energy bills: The heater uses power only when water is flowing


I'm currently bidding on a 38KW Emax install for a nine unit slum here

this equates to a 240V 153A install, it's own service drop dedicated to the unit

the poco will need to upgrade thier on site 15KVA can to a 50....

the usage costs you ask? well, we could ask the Feds , who keep an eye on everything 'energy' these days>


http://www1.eere.energy.gov/femp/technologies/eep_waterheaters_calc.html

according to the "Average daily usage = 64 gallons of hot water" x 9 would = 576 gallons

now the thing that Emax (and i've been on the horn to Oxford Conn asking them) won't tell you is most poco's will impose a rate hike over a certain KW usage, i.e.- from $.13KWH to .20KWH (ex)

my math comes out to over $8000 annually btw

to recap, you will incur the costs of

>>>>a service upgrade & or dedicated service

>>>>insane poco rates if used commercially

I think i'll go throw another log on, thanx.....~CS~


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