# Dishwasher Circuit



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Means of disconnect, ever since 11'. Can do that or install switch under sink base prior to hardwire.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

A dishwasher has been required to have a disconnect for quite some time now but it's one of those code sections that's commonly ignored primarily due to the tradition of hardwiring them.


----------



## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

MTW said:


> A dishwasher has been required to have a disconnect for quite some time now but it's one of those code sections that's commonly ignored primarily due to the tradition of hardwiring them.


Oh sh*t! I had no clue! 

I'm a hack. 

ETA: code reference please?


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> Oh sh*t! I had no clue!
> 
> I'm a hack.
> 
> ETA: code reference please?


It's somewhere between the first and last page of the code book.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> Oh sh*t! I had no clue!
> 
> I'm a hack.
> 
> ETA: code reference please?


422.31 Disconnection of Permanently Connected Appliances.

(A) Rated at Not over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1⁄8 Horse-power. For permanently connected appliances rated at not over 300 volt-amperes or 1⁄8 hp, the branch-circuit overcur-rent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.

(B) Appliances Rated over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1⁄8

Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated over 300 volt-amperes or 1⁄8 hp, the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the discon-necting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.


422.32 Disconnecting Means for Motor-Driven Appliance. If a switch or circuit breaker serves as the disconnect-ing means for a permanently connected motor-driven appli-ance of more than 1⁄8 hp, it shall be located within sight from the motor controller and shall comply with Part IX of Article 430.

Exception: If a motor-driven appliance of more than 1⁄8 hp is provided with a unit switch that complies with 422.34(A), (B), (C), or (D), the switch or circuit breaker serving as the other disconnecting means shall be permitted to be out of sight from the motor controller.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MTW said:


> It's somewhere between the first and last page of the code book.


You have a future in the electrical inspection field.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

BBQ said:


> You have a future in the electrical inspection field.



Just like I have a future as a J. Crew model. :laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MTW said:


> Just like I have a future as a J. Crew model. :laughing:


:laughing:


Seriously .... Think of Saturday and past classes and tell me you could not be an inspector with a reply like above. :laughing:


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

BBQ said:


> :laughing:
> 
> 
> Seriously .... Think of Saturday and past classes and tell me you could not be an inspector with a reply like above. :laughing:



You mean inspectors just shoot from the hip? Say it ain't so. :jester:


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I usually hit a 2 gang switch box next to the sink where I have a switch for the dishwasher & the garage disposal. And then I just leave a tail for the switch leg hanging out for each appliance.

Would this not pass in your area?


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Not me, you know how many times I've been on service calls to turn that switch on?

Cord and plug all the way.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> I usually hit a 2 gang switch box next to the sink where I have a switch for the dishwasher & the garage disposal. And then I just leave a tail for the switch leg hanging out for each appliance.
> 
> Would this not pass in your area?



I install the switch inside the sink cabinet. I rough it in with a switch box and bring a tail out for the dishwasher. If the dishwasher comes with a cord and plug then I disconnect the switch leg and install a receptacle.


I dislike the switch on top of the counter. Had many a phone call asking why their dishwasher doesn't work. Usually I remember that someone probably had a switch on the counter that got turn off.

Had a customer who lived in the house for 8 years and never realized he had that switch. It cost him $125 service call from the appliance guy. Fortunately I diagnosed it over the phone.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Deep Cover said:


> Not me, you know how many times I've been on service calls to turn that switch on?
> 
> Cord and plug all the way.





Dennis Alwon said:


> I install the switch inside the sink cabinet. I rough it in with a switch box and bring a tail out for the dishwasher. If the dishwasher comes with a cord and plug then I disconnect the switch leg and install a receptacle.
> 
> 
> I dislike the switch on top of the counter. Had many a phone call asking why their dishwasher doesn't work. Usually I remember that someone probably had a switch on the counter that got turn off.
> ...


I can understand a customer being clueless about what "The switch next to the sink" does. But i dont see it being a code issue.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> I can understand a customer being clueless about what "The switch next to the sink" does. But i dont see it being a code issue.



It is not a code issue just my reason for not doing it.


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Granted this was YEARS ago, but I had an inspector tell me that the switch over the counter would not be compliant because it is not "with-in sight" when servicing the dishwasher.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Deep Cover said:


> Granted this was YEARS ago, but I had an inspector tell me that the switch over the counter would not be compliant because it is not "with-in sight" when servicing the dishwasher.


In sight from the equipment is all that the NEC requires.

It does not require insight from your position when servicing.


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

MTW said:


> A dishwasher has been required to have a disconnect for quite some time now but it's one of those code sections that's commonly ignored primarily due to the tradition of hardwiring them.


Is any disconnect applicable ??


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

a breaker lock is also a valid install even if it isn't in sight


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> a breaker lock is also a valid install even if it isn't in sight


For a motor driven appliance?

IMO for a motor driven appliance the disconnecting means must be in sight.


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> For a motor driven appliance?
> 
> IMO for a motor driven appliance the disconnecting means must be in sight.


Disconnecting Means. A device, group of devices, or other means whereby the conductors of a circuit can be disconnected from their source of supply.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> For a motor driven appliance?
> 
> IMO for a motor driven appliance the disconnecting means must be in sight.


Isn't that what the except in 422.32 states


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Isn't that what the except in 422.32 states


nevermind. I read 230.32(B)


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Isn't that what the except in 422.32 states


(B) Appliances Rated over 300 Volt-Amperes. For permanently connected appliances rated over 300 volt-amperes, the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.
Informational Note:  For appliances employing unit switches, see 422.34.


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Isn't that what the except in 422.32 states


Sure if it has a unit switch that qualifies, but I don't see many appliances sold today that have a qualifying unit switch. 



> 422.34 Unit Switch(es) as Disconnecting Means. A unit switch(es) with a marked-off position that is a part of an appliance and disconnects all ungrounded conductors shall be permitted as the disconnecting means required by this article where other means for disconnection are provided in occupancies specified in 422.34(A) through (D)



Most appliances use control switches that do not open the ungrounded conductors.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Sure if it has a unit switch that qualifies, but I don't see many appliances sold today that have a qualifying unit switch.


I have never installed a dishwasher without a disconnect and I don't know why I was thinking you could. I guess I was thinking non motor loads. Brain is off today


----------



## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

fxrguy said:


> I've been told here in Florida that dishwashers are now required to be connected via a cord and plug rather then just leaving enough romex out of the wall to pull it out?




I do not think that NM coming out of wall , was ever legal .

Always Hard Wired .



Pete


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

pete87 said:


> I do not think that NM coming out of wall , was ever legal .
> 
> Always Hard Wired .
> 
> ...


Why not?


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Deep Cover said:


> Why not?


because it isn't stapled or strapped within 12" of the jb. Kind of silly isn't it. It is done everywhere around here but technically it may not be compliant


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> because it isn't stapled or strapped within 12" of the jb. Kind of silly isn't it. It is done everywhere around here but technically it may not be compliant


Pretty much SOP here as well, along with disposals and water heaters.


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Do it after the plumber installs dishwasher and consider it fished...or staple it to the subfloor.:whistling2:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Pretty much SOP here as well, along with disposals and water heaters.


Disposal and water heaters I will sleeve in carflex . Water heaters in a crawl space I won't sleeve but in a closet etc. I do. I feel it should be protected a bit more but most ec don't do it.


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

I don't see ENT providing anymore code required protection from physical damage unless you do it just to make everyone feel better.


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Disposal and water heaters I will sleeve in carflex . Water heaters in a crawl space I won't sleeve but in a closet etc. I do. I feel it should be protected a bit more but most ec don't do it.


Like this one i did today??


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> Like this one i did today??



Yep, keeps it clean also, IMO


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Or wire it without any of that showing. Two cords plugged into a quad looks even better.


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yep, keeps it clean also, IMO


Anything wrong with that sleeve into thewing box?? I cut off the bosch box if you look closely to dishwasher


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I always install a recept for the dishwasher under the sink. Even if it wasn't a code issue it's a lot simpler to use a cord and plug scenario. Just run the cord through the same hole as the drain and water supply.


----------



## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

Doesn't the cord have to be identified for that use by the manufacturer?
Not that I care, but an inspector could call somebody on it.
422.16 (b)2


----------



## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Mulder said:


> Doesn't the cord have to be identified for that use by the manufacturer?
> Not that I care, but an inspector could call somebody on it.
> 422.16 (b)2


The inspector's job ends at the receptacle. He has no control over what the homeowner plugs in there


----------



## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

bkmichael65 said:


> The inspector's job ends at the receptacle. He has no control over what the homeowner plugs in there


Why is it in the NEC then? Aren't inspectors required to enforce that article?


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

standard practice around here to have outlet under sink for dw and gd:thumbup:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mulder said:


> Doesn't the cord have to be identified for that use by the manufacturer?


Yes.





bkmichael65 said:


> The inspector's job ends at the receptacle. He has no control over what the homeowner plugs in there


We disagree there, there are many code requirements beyond the receptacle.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Mulder said:


> Doesn't the cord have to be identified for that use by the manufacturer?
> Not that I care, but an inspector could call somebody on it.
> 422.16 (b)2





BBQ said:


> Yes.


Which sucks because they cost an arm and a leg. The Hobart cord&plug kit I am looking at is around $350.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

HackWork said:


> Which sucks because they cost an arm and a leg. The Hobart cord&plug kit I am looking at is around $350.


This is right out of the Maytag installation manual.

If connecting dishwasher with a
power supply cord:
■ Use UL Listed power supply cord kit
(Part Number 4317824) marked for
use with dishwasher.
■ Power supply cord must plug into a grounded
3 prong outlet, located in the cabinet next to
the dishwasher opening. Outlet must meet all
local codes and ordinances.
If connecting dishwasher with direct wiring:
■ Use flexible, armored or nonmetallic
sheathed, copper wire with
grounding wire that meets the
wiring requirements for your home
and local codes and ordinances.
■ Use a UL Listed/CSA Approved strain relief.


$8.73 from Amazon:thumbup:


----------



## ButcherSlayer (Oct 4, 2013)

Cletis said:


> Like this one i did today??


Why not just use mc? Just for opinions


----------

