# Home Inspectors



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

Got a call from a customer who just sold her house and ask me to fix the item on the home inspection

In the garage is a plastic nail on with a 12/3 romex without any wire nuts on the end of the wire. The other end of the romex is in the panel with no wire nuts that is all they want corrected. 
This is what I saw in my five minutes in the subpanel. Neutral and grounds bonded together. They never pulled over a ground from the house. There was not one connector in the panel. the feed coming over to panel just individual THHN with no connectors and the best one was there was a phone and cable line that went right through the panel. All of that is OK but not the dead piece of Romex

Sorry no pictures


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I would fix exactly what they requested and contact the HI AFTER the sale to let him know his incompetence. That should get his liability paranoia going. :laughing:


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> I would fix exactly what they requested and contact the HI AFTER the sale to let him know his incompetence. That should get his liability paranoia going. :laughing:


 
That was all I did. Put wire nuts and a blank plate on, got paid and went home


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

fix the HI report item and leave a card for future work. :thumbsup:


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## Sawdust454 (Sep 26, 2008)

I have one right now that the home inspector wrote up the lack of gfci protection in the kitchen and bathrooms but totally missed the lack of a ground wire to all the three prong outlets in the rest of the house.
I have informed the owner,but that was a waste of time.
There are some home inspectors that are knowledgeable and professional, but apparently not this one.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Last i heard , about 1/2 of the states had some sort of HI benchmark. ​ 
in my state we have none, so a good % of HI are anywhere from Engineering level outfits , to retired GC's​ 
as to the former, they can be specific and consise like nobody's biz​ 
as to the latter, this is what they'll walk by , and make some remark about a double tagged breaker>​


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

What sucks is that folks put more faith in what they say and than a professional dedicated to one trade.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> What sucks is that folks put more faith in what they say and than a professional dedicated to one trade.


wee noo neeeid no estinkin' badges......

<HUGE photo of Clint Eastwood removed>
<Sorry CS>


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> What sucks is that folks put more faith in what they say and than a professional dedicated to one trade.


 I think it has to do with the word "Inspector". It sounds like the person is authoritative and knowledgeable, kinda like how every tech who turns a screwdriver has the word "engineer" put in their job title. It's all appearances.

-John


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Last i heard , about 1/2 of the states had some sort of HI benchmark. ​
> in my state we have none, so a good % of HI are anywhere from Engineering level outfits , to retired GC's​
> as to the former, they can be specific and consise like nobody's biz​
> as to the latter, this is what they'll walk by , and make some remark about a double tagged breaker>​


WTF is that ? Looks like an EC brought the service in and the GC wired the branch ckts himself.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> WTF is that ? Looks like an EC brought the service in and the GC wired the branch ckts himself.


 
done by an EE Shockdude, some of it old BX _(with the weasly ground, which really isn't one) _


HI passed it _all,_ and EE was _proud_ of the job


That said, one might thing a certain* Inspector Orginization* that i was _once_ a member of would take an interest in such sorts

to think i paid dues to those _a*shats_ for over a decade , eh?

~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricalwiz said:


> Got a call from a customer who just sold her house and ask me to fix the item on the home inspection
> 
> In the garage is a plastic nail on with a 12/3 romex without any wire nuts on the end of the wire. The other end of the romex is in the panel with no wire nuts that is all they want corrected.
> This is what I saw in my five minutes in the subpanel. Neutral and grounds bonded together. They never pulled over a ground from the house. There was not one connector in the panel. the feed coming over to panel just individual THHN with no connectors and the best one was there was a phone and cable line that went right through the panel. All of that is OK but not the dead piece of Romex
> ...


 
'05 code and sooner, a 3 wire feed was legal in a detached structure subpanel, barring no other metallic paths.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I was on a job yesterday where the customer had on of those organization members moonlighting wiring thier home, gut and redo, his friend was covering the license. I counted about 20 violations in the basement alone from cables stapled under joist to standard outlets in unfinished basement, not one AFCI breaker , done in 09. #12 and #14 wire interconnected on 20 amp breakers and so forth. An electrical inspection agency gave them a final certificate.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Chicken steve ruined this thread with that huge pic.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Chicken steve ruined this thread with that huge pic.


 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DtcSYPjJbgg


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DtcSYPjJbgg


 
Redemption!


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Minnesota has no licensing requirements for home inspectors. Home inpectors used to bother me but, I have to admit they do create work for my business which I can't complain about.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I get the bulk of my fix what the home inspector found call outs from realtors. If you think the home inspectors are clueless, the realtors are twice as goofy. 




Because the realtors are in extreme greed mode and have no ethical values at the point of sale, I have learned to just go ahead and take em for all I can.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I get the bulk of my fix what the home inspector found call outs from realtors. If you think the home inspectors are clueless, the realtors are twice as goofy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Yep, exactly, I always hear"This is holding up the sale, when can you have it done?"


Cha-ching$$$


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Some of these guys are ok most are bozos was in a home a month ago for an estimate saw sooo many violations in first 10 ft of basement told 
ho that house should not of passed. Knob and tube really!!? Over 2500 sq ft with a new 100 amp panel in it! WTF...Estmimate was over $10k lady cried...sorry lady what a fire trap!!!! 6 extension cords stapled in place as circuits? Yes realtors inspector passed it. She was getting a shock when she did the laundry, home was about 100yrs old what a MESS Told her I have to rewire everything just easier. Realtor got thiers I got zip. 2 story with a 3 bay garage, 1 gfic in the place lol and it was loose, and the husband is a carpenter!!? Plumbing looked like hell too.
.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

RGH said:


> Some of these guys are ok most are bozos was in a home a month ago for an estimate saw sooo many violations in first 10 ft of basement told
> ho that house should not of passed. Knob and tube really!!? Over 2500 sq ft with a new 100 amp panel in it! WTF...Estmimate was over $10k lady cried...sorry lady what a fire trap!!!! 6 extension cords stapled in place as circuits? Yes realtors inspector passed it. She was getting a shock when she did the laundry, home was about 100yrs old what a MESS Told her I have to rewire everything just easier. Realtor got thiers I got zip. 2 story with a 3 bay garage, 1 gfic in the place lol and it was loose, and the husband is a carpenter!!? Plumbing looked like hell too.
> .


whats wrong with a new 100 amp service and the knob and tube


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Local AJH requires ALL knob and tube be removed. The newer service(100amp) was no where near load requirements for the home and the shop in the garage. The shop needed a 100 amp sub with new drop. The old latteral to shop was galvanized pipe 1". I estimated a new 200 amp main/with sub. And of coarse nearly total re-wire of the home. We are suppose to red flag any home with knob and tube. Heres another one for ya, Any home in the City of Buffalo with fuses we are suppose to red flag as well. No work until replaced with c/b's! AHJ in NY very strict. Besides knob and tube is 75 yrs old, I feel it is good practice to remove it regardless. I am not the cheapest guy but I like to say I use code plus methods Sell em on quality and workmanship.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

RGH said:


> Local AJH requires ALL knob and tube be removed. The newer service(100amp) was no where near load requirements for the home and the shop in the garage. The shop needed a 100 amp sub with new drop. The old latteral to shop was galvanized pipe 1". I estimated a new 200 amp main/with sub. And of coarse nearly total re-wire of the home. We are suppose to red flag any home with knob and tube. Heres another one for ya, Any home in the City of Buffalo with fuses we are suppose to red flag as well. No work until replaced with c/b's! AHJ in NY very strict. Besides knob and tube is 75 yrs old, I feel it is good practice to remove it regardless. I am not the cheapest guy but I like to say I use code plus methods Sell em on quality and workmanship.


So do you guys have written amendments to the NYS Resi code to back all this up???


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

As per 1987NEC codes changes in refernce to knob and tube? Or the removal?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

RGH said:


> As per 1987NEC codes changes in refernce to knob and tube? Or the removal?


The removal and the replacement of fuses.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

They usually call it a code 394 which i say is vauge at best. So why push the issue with the guy signing off on it. If it means more work so be it. I dont like it and feel better chopping it out. The fuse issue is a city issue only. And that is per thier inspectors which sign off on the job, a mess in city. Dont work there unless I have to need special licsense for Buffalo.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

RGH said:


> They usually call it a code 394 which i say is vauge at best. So why push the issue with the guy signing off on it. If it means more work so be it. I dont like it and feel better chopping it out. The fuse issue is a city issue only. And that is per thier inspectors which sign off on the job, a mess in city. Dont work there unless I have to need special licsense for Buffalo.


"code 394"??? So they are saying it IS ok to install it? Because that is what Art. 394 says. Have you ever read it?

2008 NEC:


> *394.10 Uses Permitted.* Concealed knob-and-tube wiring shall be permitted to be installed in the hollow spaces of walls and ceilings, or in unfinished attics and roof spaces as provided by 394.23, only as follows:
> 
> (1)
> 
> ...



It sounds like the locals are making this stuff up just to push their weight around. :whistling2:

I don't like K&T either, but who am I (or they) to say you can't sell/buy a house with it existing? Or a fuse panel for that matter?


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Like i said it is some what vague at best. "with special permission" And yes pete I have read it over and over again. That is why I aviod it when possible or do as thet wish when nessary, you know the drill right? Had a city inspector chew my ear for 1/2 hour telling me about his night gig at h/d and never looked at my work...wtf..then he signed off on it!!


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I don't mean to beat this to death, but I still fail to see how they can cite 394 as validation for making you remove K&T when it SPECIFICALLY states you can legally extend it, even under the most modern codes. It is NOT at all vague.
Sorry, I am not one of the "don't rock the boat" kind of people. 

You state, "_Local AJH requires ALL knob and tube be removed._" My next question to them would be _"Really. Where can I find that in the code? I'd like to look it up for myself._"


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