# whole house surge protection



## Nickwanerka (Apr 15, 2011)

Yes they make a full house surge protector that plugs right into the panel just like a breaker. It takes up 2 spots like a 2 pole breaker. What kind of panel do you have? If it is sq d then go to home depot they have them for sq d home line and qo brand and they are about $58 I think they have them for ge panels also. But as we all know the sq d home line will fit in most panels.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Nickwanerka said:


> Yes they make a full house surge protector that plugs right into the panel just like a breaker. It takes up 2 spots like a 2 pole breaker. What kind of panel do you have? If it is sq d then go to home depot they have them for sq d home line and qo brand and they are about $58 I think they have them for ge panels also. _*But as we all know the sq d home line will fit in most panels.*_


Smart move, let's encourage a new poster to purposely violate Code. :no:

WTF are you thinking? 

If that isn't a good enough reason, consider that any warranty on the surge protector will be void, if the protector goes down in flames and it is discovered that it is not the listed one for the panel the HO could lose insurance coverage and any damage to the panel or HO equipment will not be covered. 

dhr1333, there are several brands of whole house protection available. IF you have the right panel and the open spaces available, the breaker-style surge protector is easy to install and cost-effective. If not, then Leviton makes a great whole-house unit. http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppressor-Surge-Protector/p.aspx

Remember, in addition to whole-house surge protector, you MUST also use "point-of-use" surge protection on the critical loads to ensure full protection.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

We install a lot of whole house surge protection. I use Cutler Hammer Ultra for power and coax and Delta brand for telephone protection.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Cutler Hammer makes a good one that fits in the space of a DP breaker and is listed for other than CH panels.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Cutler Hammer makes a good one that fits in the space of a DP breaker and is listed for other than CH panels.


Cool, do you have a link?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

No link handy yet, but it is called the BRsurge. They also make a version for Square D QO panels as well.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> No link handy yet, but it is called the BRsurge. They also make a version for Square D QO panels as well.


They are called CHSP ULTRA, MAX or MICRO.

3 different levels of protection. ULTRA is the best. 180k surge amps and 2880 Joules.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

mxslick said:


> Smart move, let's encourage a new poster to purposely violate Code. :no:
> 
> WTF are you thinking?
> 
> If that isn't a good enough reason, consider that any warranty on the surge protector will be void, if the protector goes down in flames and it is discovered that it is not the listed one for the panel the HO could lose insurance coverage and any damage to the panel or HO equipment will not be covered.


You're such a drama queen. :laughing:

But I agree, mixing and matching breakers in a panel is definitely amateur work.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

one of the COOPs will come out and install one at the meter for free i guess it must protect their meter. I was told that some damage to electronics is induced voltage comming in on the phone or cable which most people don't run through surge protection.


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## dhr1333 (Feb 15, 2011)

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to go with either the leviton 51120.1 or the intermatic ig3240rc3 for power. Both have good specs. And are exterior of panel so my uncle can see the led indicators without opening panel door.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

dhr1333 said:


> Thanks for all the help. I'm going to go with either the leviton 51120.1 or the intermatic ig3240rc3 for power. Both have good specs. And are exterior of panel so my uncle can see the led indicators without opening panel door.


Seriously? Anything Leviton is junk. 

What's the joule rating on the Leviton pos?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Seriously? Anything Leviton is junk.


Leviton makes fine surge protectors IMO. And they have a huge selection, probably way more options then most people need. 4-20 mA loop protectors all the way up to I think 200kA at 480 units.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> You're such a drama queen. :laughing:


:thumbup:

He does tend to get overly excited.



> But I agree, mixing and matching breakers in a panel is definitely amateur work.


Yes ..... so some amateur must have worked on the panels in my basement.:laughing:


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## fondini (Dec 22, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You're such a drama queen. :laughing:
> 
> But I agree, mixing and matching breakers in a panel is definitely amateur work.


may be a drama queen but he is correct.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Leviton makes fine surge protectors IMO. And they have a huge selection, probably way more options then most people need. 4-20 mA loop protectors all the way up to I think 200kA at 480 units.



If I looked at the same one he posted it only has 50k max surge current. The CH has 180K....I didn't see Joules listed but I just glanced at it. You want the highest surge current protection and the highest joules for the most protection.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Really you need more then one protector to get the best protection, service, sub panels, and point of use units, protection on all data, comm, and process lines is a must too. 

In high lighting areas we put a lightning arrestor and a surge capacitor in too at the service and sub panels. Proper grounding a bonding conductor routing helps too, keep all the protector leads as short as possible, avoid sharp bends. 




jwjrw said:


> If I looked at the same one he posted it only has 50k max surge current.


Leviton doesn't do joule ratings that I know of. The 51120 is flush mount I think too, a lot of people probably get it for that reason only.


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## dhr1333 (Feb 15, 2011)

The leviton is rated for 950 joules.
The intermatic is 1200.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

dhr1333 said:


> The leviton is rated for 950 joules.


That's weird, online dealers have a joule listing but the Leviton catalog I have doens't list the joule ratings, just a kA rating.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Really you need more then one protector to get the best protection, service, sub panels, and point of use units, protection on all data, comm, and process lines is a must too.
> 
> In high lighting areas we put a lightning arrestor and a surge capacitor in too as the service and sub panels. Proper grounding a bonding conductor routing helps too, keep all the protector leads as short as possible, avoid sharp bends.
> 
> ...




An updated grounding system is essential to good surge protection. The ones I have sold have been in addition to a complete service upgrade. Secondary protection, I agree, makes the surge protection complete. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

dhr1333 said:


> The leviton is rated for 950 joules.
> The intermatic is 1200.


Like I said, it's junk. :whistling2:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Really you need more then one protector to get the best protection, service, sub panels, and point of use units, protection on all data, comm, and process lines is a must too.
> 
> In high lighting areas we put a lightning arrestor and a surge capacitor in too at the service and sub panels. Proper grounding a bonding conductor routing helps too, keep all the protector leads as short as possible, avoid sharp bends.
> 
> ...



They make a flush mount kit......:whistling2:
Whole house surge includes the coax and phone also. Not just power. 
Point of use is required for insurance that comes with surge protector.
Lifetime warranty and led lights to let you know it is still working.

Use what you want but I know the CH is quality and have never replaced one or had a customer that has one have damage.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> They make a flush mount kit......:whistling2:


Never mattered to me, I'm always like "here's your surge protector", as I screw some gray or black box to the surface of wall. :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)




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## arni19 (Nov 20, 2009)

Couldnt agree more, whole house surge protection is great, but you must make sure that any delicate electronics are also plugged into surge protecting power bars. This way if the whole house surge gets fried or stops working without you noticing the LED's going out you are still protected.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> ...


I did the same thing the other day, but the client wanted to be able to see the lights so I thought about it for a few minutes. 

Then it hit me, punch a 2 inch knock out in the dead front and put a piece of lexan behind it, 5 minutes latter I had a viewing window.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> put a piece of lexan behind it,


You happened to have that with you?

I have used it the past for similar things but can't say it is van stock.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> You happened to have that with you?
> 
> I have used it the past for similar things but can't say it is van stock.


Yes I did, it's tough and an insulator, a perfect material for high quality hack work. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Yes I did, it's tough and an insulator, a perfect material for high quality hack work. :laughing:


I got no problems with it:thumbsup: or mounting a surge suppressor in a cabinet. I used a lot of Lexan for electrical projects.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I got no problems with it:thumbsup: or mounting a surge suppressor in a cabinet. I used a lot of Lexan for electrical projects.


It comes in handy in-case one of the guys breaks a window too.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

I noticed 220/221 posted a Siemens panel in post 24. 

FWIW, Siemens and Murray have "residential surge protectors" 
that plug into the slots on their panel, and have 2x20Amp 
breakers built into the same space, e.g. if you have a full 
panel, you don't give up any spaces to the surge protector,
if you have 2 20 amp circuits anyway.

I used one of these once in a full Siemens panel although I usually
use Square D. Not super high energy, specs are:
360 Joules line-to-neutral
720 Joules line-to-line 

but works just fine around here where we don't have a lot of 

power issues to check off the box if someone wants surge protection
and has a full Murray or Siemens panel.



http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/Produ...cuit-Breaker-and-Surge-Protective-Device.aspx


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I had a lady that got hit by surges pretty regular from lightning, killing TVs and other electronics. I checked the grounding, and installed extra electrodes. I installed the panel protector, which took a hit soon after. So, I installed an arrestor at the meter as well as the panel. She took another hit. So, I suspected the large antenna bolted to her house, but unused. I removed the tower. She took a hit.

I ended up burying a solid #4 ring around the house, with jumpers to her A/C units, satellite dish, cold water, and GEC. Four points had 10' electrodes. I ran the end to the utility pole and split bolted to the utility ground. She went from taking a hit every time a storm cloud passed overhead to zero hits as of 3 months ago, when I saw her last:thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> I had a lady that got hit by surges pretty regular from lightning, killing TVs and other electronics. I checked the grounding, and installed extra electrodes. I installed the panel protector, which took a hit soon after. So, I installed an arrestor at the meter as well as the panel. She took another hit. So, I suspected the large antenna bolted to her house, but unused. I removed the tower. She took a hit.
> 
> I ended up burying a solid #4 ring around the house, with jumpers to her A/C units, satellite dish, cold water, and GEC. Four points had 10' electrodes. I ran the end to the utility pole and split bolted to the utility ground. She went from taking a hit every time a storm cloud passed overhead to zero hits as of 3 months ago, when I saw her last:thumbsup:


Job well done! You mentioned you used jumpers to the A/C units, how did you bond the unit? I think it's phenomenal you were able to correct this problem.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I include the QO panel surge protectors with all my service upgrades...They cost like 50 bucks and the customer thinks they are getting more for their money.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> I had a lady that got hit by surges pretty regular from lightning, killing TVs and other electronics. I checked the grounding, and installed extra electrodes. I installed the panel protector, which took a hit soon after. So, I installed an arrestor at the meter as well as the panel. She took another hit. So, I suspected the large antenna bolted to her house, but unused. I removed the tower. She took a hit.
> 
> I ended up burying a solid #4 ring around the house, with jumpers to her A/C units, satellite dish, cold water, and GEC. Four points had 10' electrodes. I ran the end to the utility pole and split bolted to the utility ground. She went from taking a hit every time a storm cloud passed overhead to zero hits as of 3 months ago, when I saw her last:thumbsup:


Nice work....cool to see that what you did worked....I bet you made it to the top of her list for contractors...thanks for sharing..


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> Job well done! You mentioned you used jumpers to the A/C units, how did you bond the unit? I think it's phenomenal you were able to correct this problem.


I used mechanical box lugs bolted to the frame of the A/C. I think it's phenomenal as well:laughing: I'm not sure where it was actually entering the property. Either at the house or on the long isolated POCO distribution to it. But my theory was/is that if the current had a better path around the property rather than through it, it would alleviate the problem.

Seems to have worked so far.


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## Senad (May 25, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> I used mechanical box lugs bolted to the frame of the A/C. I think it's phenomenal as well:laughing: I'm not sure where it was actually entering the property. Either at the house or on the long isolated POCO distribution to it. But my theory was/is that if the current had a better path around the property rather than through it, it would alleviate the problem.
> 
> Seems to have worked so far.


Sorry maybe stupid question but what is POCO? Thanks in advance


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> I used mechanical box lugs bolted to the frame of the A/C. I think it's phenomenal as well:laughing: I'm not sure where it was actually entering the property. Either at the house or on the long isolated POCO distribution to it. But my theory was/is that if the current had a better path around the property rather than through it, it would alleviate the problem.
> 
> Seems to have worked so far.


 POCO = Power Company.


Maybe we need to post a lexicon again.


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## Senad (May 25, 2011)

Thanks POCO = power company... Never heard it called like that in Connecticut... Thanks again


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