# Travelers Talk



## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

Are you really after other "guys take on this", or are you making an obvious hint? Say what's on your mind.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

Just wanted to know people's take on this. Get people's views from apprentices to journeyman to foreman to general foreman or even superintendents. Even if contractors want to chime in as well.


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

When I traveled I would ask the local brothers to let me know when to pull the pin.

It's not my local, I tramped to the local for work they couldn't man, so when they can man it.......it's time to move on. [sometimes the guys on the books at the hall wanted to be on the books or weren't wanted on the job by the locals]

I wanted to be welcomed next time I came thru, so I would drag up when I was asked by the local brothers, job call finished or not.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Let the local guys man their own work. Obviously. I would be pretty angry otherwise. The main reason to pay my dues is to work in my back yard now and then.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

There's local hands pissed that there's travelers here still, and there's local hands here saying that they prefer travelers because they're more dependable and knowledgeable.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

From a contractor's point they want guys that are dependable and productive.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Yo trolling girl!


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

I have always dragged up when the local hands asked me to - it is their house and am I just a guest. Most travelers will do so it seems. 

There is always the dedicated knobber looking to jam his book in another territory so that is something to be watching out for.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

eejack said:


> I have always dragged up when the local hands asked me to - it is their house and am I just a guest. Most travelers will do so it seems.
> 
> There is always the dedicated knobber looking to jam his book in another territory so that is something to be watching out for.


Card in another book?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

cl219um said:


> Card in another book?


If you spend x amount of time living and working in a local you may have the right to transfer your book - I believe x is a year but I am not certain.

If you are coming from say a texas local with a tiny pension you might want to try to jam your card into a local with a better pension. Been known to happen.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

That's another Talk also there's travelers who work here and have certain amount of hours and then sign book 1.


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

eejack said:


> it is their house and am I just a guest. Most travelers will do so it seems.
> 
> There is always the dedicated knobber looking to jam his book in another territory so that is something to be watching out for.


I never signed Book One even if I had the required hours in that local to do so, that is just so wrong......legal or not. 

I liked on Local 11's lists they would post the Local # next to the travelers name's on Book One [for all the tramps & locals to see]. I loved having discussions with them when I would run into them at the hall chewing them out for being such assholes. :whistling2: 

And then Local 11 hands telling me [while working 2nd shifts on the job mind you] how I could make "such & such" local before work starts & sign their out of work list & get a better job. And I'd have to explain it's an "out of work" list not a "rotate contractors/jurisdiction list. That blew my mind


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

DH ELECTRIC said:


> I never signed Book One even if I had the required hours in that local to do so, that is just so wrong......legal or not.
> 
> I liked on Local 11's lists they would post the Local # next to the travelers name's on Book One [for all the tramps & locals to see]. I loved having discussions with them when I would run into them at the hall chewing them out for being such assholes. :whistling2:
> 
> And then Local 11 hands telling me [while working 2nd shifts on the job mind you] how I could make "such & such" local before work starts & sign their out of work list & get a better job. And I'd have to explain it's an "out of work" list not a "rotate contractors/jurisdiction list. That blew my mind


Here in 332 they're really enforcing the out of work list. I believe they call other locals and check to see if any members have taken any calls. Even if you take an 1 hour short call they want you to remove yourself out of the list.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Seeing as I don't lose my name on the books when I take a two week or shorter call, I keep that as my rule of thumb. Right or wrong, that's how my local sees it, so that's how I roll.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

cl219um said:


> Seeing as I don't lose my name on the books when I take a two week or shorter call, I keep that as my rule of thumb. Right or wrong, that's how my local sees it, so that's how I roll.


I don't see why you wouldn't be able to take unlimited short calls at any local if it gets to you right? Here in 332 if you take a short call anywhere else they want you to remove your name from the list.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

408sparky said:


> I don't see why you wouldn't be able to take unlimited short calls at any local if it gets to you right? Here in 332 if you take a short call anywhere else they want you to remove your name from the list.


What do you mean unlimited short calls? Here they are pretty few and far between. If you work one, you don't get dinged for it. A whole different book altogether. Two weeks of work is just a bonus. Long lengths of layoffs.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

So the new kids at school are trying to sit at your table?


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

uconduit said:


> So the new kids at school are trying to sit at your table?


Basically yes the thing is whether its ok to let them sit in our table. Some guys are cool with the new kids and some are not.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

The thing is when it comes to more of management positions they're ok with travelers still being here. When it comes to journeyman they're not to happy.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

I wash my clothes before I let them hang out to dry.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

uconduit said:


> I wash my clothes before I let them hang out to dry.


You do laundry? Don't get it brother be a little more specific.


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## Brother Noah (Jul 18, 2013)

cl219um said:


> What do you mean unlimited short calls? Here they are pretty few and far between. If you work one, you don't get dinged for it. A whole different book altogether. Two weeks of work is just a bonus. Long lengths of layoffs.


 What he is saying (in my opinion) is an unethical traveler taking short call after short call in several different locals and still keeping their names on all the books. I have heard the unethical say as long as its a short call its okay to keep your name on all other "out of work" list because its a short call. Well I have worked out of locals with a 3 day short call and I know of one local that has an 120 day short call! So where do the alibis stop and being true to OUR IBEW start? We have an out of work list so all will get their chance to earn a living for their immediate family.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

the economy is totally cufked right now, and in case you haven't noticed, that doesn't exactly bring out the best in people.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

uconduit said:


> the economy is totally cufked right now, and in case you haven't noticed, that doesn't exactly bring out the best in people.


I see one thing I have noticed and seen myself that there's a company here in 332 by the name of Redwood group and has travelers taking company tools to other jobs. They kinda test guys to see if they say anything. So basically they keep their mouth shut and they keep them.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Name dropping! It's not the companies responsibility what the workers do with their pay after they are terminated.

If rce wants to give bonuses in the form of used tools and equipment more power to them. I have no issues with that and you shouldn't either. What you should be concerned with is your so-called brothers and sisters who violate the tool list and cheat you and your colleagues by bringing in power tools, trucks, material, work for less money than the contract rates, etc.

That shop has a lot of projects, so what if an employee brings company tools/vehicles/or even other employees to other locations. 

I don't understand the complaint here. Are you implying that the shop gives tools/materials to employees as a form of bonus/gift? Do you believe that the shop has any responsibility to what happens to those tools once those employees gain employment with another company? I don't understand.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

uconduit said:


> Name dropping! It's not the companies responsibility what the workers do with their pay after they are terminated.
> 
> If rce wants to give bonuses in the form of used tools and equipment more power to them. I have no issues with that and you shouldn't either. What you should be concerned with is your so-called brothers and sisters who violate the tool list and cheat you and your colleagues by bringing in power tools, trucks, material, work for less money than the contract rates, etc.
> 
> ...


What I'm saying is the GF or Foreman tells a traveler that he's going to a particular job and they tell the traveler to carry company tools to the next project.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

We are a brotherhood so I believe in spreading the wealth. " Although" if those travelers don't allow you to work in there local which is complete bs then your local needs to have some guidelines for its members and travelers "which is bs" Good man for requesting a layoff,those travelers need to respect that as well. 
In solidarity,Chris. Ibew Local 440 riverside ca. NO DOUBLE BOOKERS!!!!!


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

I treat travelers from Vegas with brotherly love.

God knows vegas put tons of guys from all over the country to work, for a loooong time.

IDK... I treat about every traveler nice, except the POS's from a neighboring local who don't want to go home on purpose. I tell them things like, 'we need reverse book layoff in this local, hee hee hee'

The ones coming from hard times far away, well, they are down and out, and I hope that I can somehow pay it forward.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

mr hands said:


> I treat travelers from Vegas with brotherly love.
> 
> God knows vegas put tons of guys from all over the country to work, for a loooong time.
> 
> ...


Yea I get what you mean its the neighboring locals that leach around.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

Chrisibew440 said:


> We are a brotherhood so I believe in spreading the wealth. " Although" if those travelers don't allow you to work in there local which is complete bs then your local needs to have some guidelines for its members and travelers "which is bs" Good man for requesting a layoff,those travelers need to respect that as well.
> In solidarity,Chris. Ibew Local 440 riverside ca. NO DOUBLE BOOKERS!!!!!


Yea spreading the wealth is good and we all need travelers to man up the jobs.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Here it's just normal to layoff the book two guys first, they expect it.

We have a few ticket jammers but it's not an epidemic.
Have known one guy out of San Diego that won't move his ticket to Fort Lauderdale just due to the fact that his H&W is so much better back home.

I've had a few guys insist to be layed off before local hands.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

408sparky said:


> Ok brothers and sisters how do you guys feels about travelers staying in your own home local? Work here in Local 332 is drying up just a bit, but will pick back up in the beginning of the new year. We have close to 400 travelers here and close to 200 on the out of work book 1 list. So what is your guys take on this. I know that when I've travelled to other locals, local hands look down on me. So out of respect for the Local I always requested to be laid off as soon as I knew the job was winding down. What's your guys take on this? Since there's people from all over the country here.


Welcome back Cletis, when did you move to the west coast? I could automatically tell by the wording it was you.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

DH ELECTRIC said:


> When I traveled I would ask the local brothers to let me know when to pull the pin.
> 
> It's not my local, I tramped to the local for work they couldn't man, so when they can man it.......it's time to move on. [sometimes the guys on the books at the hall wanted to be on the books or weren't wanted on the job by the locals]
> 
> I wanted to be welcomed next time I came thru, so I would drag up when I was asked by the local brothers, job call finished or not.


Great advice to live by


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

jrannis said:


> Here it's just normal to layoff the book two guys first, they expect it.
> 
> We have a few ticket jammers but it's not an epidemic.
> Have known one guy out of San Diego that won't move his ticket to Fort Lauderdale just due to the fact that his H&W is so much better back home.
> ...


Yea I just tought it was normal all around the country. Its just weird seeing it in my local where they prefer travelers. A lot of people don't speak up and say things.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

360max said:


> Welcome back Cletis, when did you move to the west coast? I could automatically tell by the wording it was you.


Sorry brother wrong guy.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Its been a looooooooooong time (1998) since our local has needed to call in travellers but it has always been the unwritten rule that the tramps get the layoffs first. 

Whenever I have had to travel in the past.....and I've spent more than my fair share of time doing so........I always expect to get the first round of cuts. If I'm not on it and any locals get the axe......I'm the first to ask WTF. I fully expect it to happen.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

If all other things are equal, I have no issue with a tramp getting the axe before the local hand. But some people (to put this nicely) 'need improvement' and if they cannot perform competitively it's not fair to expect a contractor to get rid of an excellent tramp in favor of an underperforming local hand. Life isn't fair though.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

uconduit said:


> If all other things are equal, I have no issue with a tramp getting the axe before the local hand. But some people (to put this nicely) 'need improvement' and if they cannot perform competitively it's not fair to expect a contractor to get rid of an excellent tramp in favor of an underperforming local hand. Life isn't fair though.


I thought that's why there is communication. You can always talk to your local hands and tell them they need to improve. So you mean to tell me that in 332 the 200 on book 1 sitting on the bench are worthless?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

uconduit said:


> If all other things are equal, I have no issue with a tramp getting the axe before the local hand. But some people (to put this nicely) 'need improvement' and if they cannot perform competitively it's not fair to expect a contractor to get rid of an excellent tramp in favor of an underperforming local hand. Life isn't fair though.


True enough.......it does suck from the contractor point of view sometimes. 
In my opinion though......those that can't cut it out there in the field should be cut on that _first_ layoff. The one we lovingly call the _weed-out:laughing:._


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

Rollie73 said:


> Its been a looooooooooong time (1998) since our local has needed to call in travellers but it has always been the unwritten rule that the tramps get the layoffs first.
> 
> Whenever I have had to travel in the past.....and I've spent more than my fair share of time doing so........I always expect to get the first round of cuts. If I'm not on it and any locals get the axe......I'm the first to ask WTF. I fully expect it to happen.


Yea I agree with the unwritten rule. I just thought local hands usually stand together. At least that's what I've seen when I traveled. Its always best to ask for the layoff I've gotten more respect from the local hands.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

But then again I've been ask to run work when I've traveled and turn down that work. I just don't believe that there's no local hands available to run work. Every local has their bad share of brothers and sisters. I can guarantee that there's at least one that's hungry.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

408sparky said:


> Yea I agree with the unwritten rule. I just thought *local hands usually stand together*. At least that's what I've seen when I traveled. Its always best to ask for the layoff I've gotten more respect from the local hands.


 
In the perfect world 408............unfortunately, we all know more than a few _brothers_ who only care about number 1.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

Rollie73 said:


> In the perfect world 408............unfortunately, we all know more than a few brothers who only care about number 1.


Your absolutely right.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

408sparky said:


> I thought that's why there is communication. You can always talk to your local hands and tell them they need to improve. So you mean to tell me that in 332 the 200 on book 1 sitting on the bench are worthless?


I haven't worked around enough 332 folks to make generalizations about that particular local. Though I'm going to assume for the sake of argument that they are worth their weight in gold.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Rollie73 said:


> True enough.......it does suck from the contractor point of view sometimes.
> In my opinion though......those that can't cut it out there in the field should be cut on that _first_ layoff. The one we lovingly call the _weed-out:laughing:._


A contractor's workforce peaks at some point during a project but after that, as work diminishes so does their need for employees. Attrition is a way for a business to lay off the least productive people on their payroll. Expecting a business to lay off people based on book status or seniority is ludicrous. If a group of workers is performing about equal and half of them are travelers and they decide to get rid of the travelers first I'm not complaining about that. But expecting a decent hard-working traveler to fall on the sword to allow, for example, a meth-addict disaster to keep his job just because he is local hand is absurd.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

uconduit said:


> A contractor's workforce peaks at some point during a project but after that, as work diminishes so does their need for employees. Attrition is a way for a business to lay off the least productive people on their payroll. Expecting a business to lay off people based on book status or seniority is ludicrous. If a group of workers is performing about equal and half of them are travelers and they decide to get rid of the travelers first I'm not complaining about that. But expecting a decent hard-working traveler to fall on the sword to allow, for example, a meth-addict disaster to keep his job just because he is local hand is absurd.


Uconduit you ever thought about if local hands start coming to your jobs and do little things to hurt your jobs? Kinda like where I've heard of travelers doing in some jobs.Because during good times anything is possible. I'll give an example right now Redwood is known for only taking travelers and spin local hands. What if local hands keep taking those calls where you wouldn't be able to man up the jobs Because local hands are only taking the calls.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

408sparky said:


> Uconduit you ever thought about if local hands start coming to your jobs and do little things to hurt your jobs? Kinda like where I've heard of travelers doing in some jobs.Because during good times anything is possible. I'll give an example right now Redwood is known for only taking travelers and spin local hands. What if local hands keep taking those calls where you wouldn't be able to man up the jobs Because local hands are only taking the calls.


Cletis?


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

chewy said:


> Cletis?


Sorry wrong person.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

408sparky said:


> Uconduit you ever thought about if local hands start coming to your jobs and* do little things to hurt your jobs*? Kinda like where I've heard of travelers doing in some jobs.Because during good times anything is possible. I'll give an example right now Redwood is known for only taking travelers and spin local hands. What if local hands keep taking those calls where you wouldn't be able to man up the jobs Because local hands are only taking the calls.


Look people who deliberately sabotage a job to the point of damaging the well-being, profits, or reputation of stakeholders (workers/ union/ contractors/ customers) might be better off working in a different industry -- like motor vehicle license plate manufacturing. 

Mentioning the name of a contractor that you have a grievance with is not good tact. There are hundreds if not thousands of union members working for that company. Each one is bringing home a paycheck, many of them have families and mortgages. I'm not defending their policies or business practices, I'm well aware of who they are and how they conduct themselves. 

It sounds like you have a problem with a specific contractor's business practices. I suggest that you go file a grievance at the hall and speak out at your next union meeting. Embarrassing a union contractor by name to the general public on this forum is bad business and it cannot be good for the union. 

Not all jobs are big jobs, closed shop, or PLA deals. Union and non-union contractors sometime bid on the same jobs. Spreading rumors that can potentially affect the business credibility of a contractor may cost that contractor a project. They might even lose it to a non-union contractor. Then the book 2 guys and the book 1 guys will be on the books.

I don't know if you're after justice or "biting the hand that feeds you" but if it's justice that you're looking I don't think you'll be finding it here.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

Rollie73 said:


> In the perfect world 408............unfortunately, we all know more than a few _brothers_ who only care about number 1.


That's because number 1 is the only number that matters.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

uconduit said:


> Look people who deliberately sabotage a job to the point of damaging the well-being, profits, or reputation of stakeholders (workers/ union/ contractors/ customers) might be better off working in a different industry -- like motor vehicle license plate manufacturing.
> 
> Mentioning the name of a contractor that you have a grievance with is not good tact. There are hundreds if not thousands of union members working for that company. Each one is bringing home a paycheck, many of them have families and mortgages. I'm not defending their policies or business practices, I'm well aware of who they are and how they conduct themselves.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I don't have any grievance against that company or any other just used them as an example, because everyone knows what's going on with that company. Sorry to tell you brother, but its not a hidden secret. You think that with all the travelers being here over the summer they didn't get the word out. The only thing I wanted was feedback only because I'm a General foreman at for a company in 332.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

sounds like you're really full of doodoo now.

Best stfu and mind your own business.

There is only a few shops here, out of many, who put in jw calls regularly.
Most want naive apprentices to raise up in a culture of.... something else.

But to call yourself a gf, now that is taking your load of bull past the point of venting and decend into fleabaggery.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

uconduit said:


> A contractor's workforce peaks at some point during a project but after that, as work diminishes so does their need for employees. Attrition is a way for a business to lay off the least productive people on their payroll. Expecting a business to lay off people based on book status or seniority is ludicrous. If a group of workers is performing about equal and half of them are travelers and they decide to get rid of the travelers first I'm not complaining about that. But expecting a decent hard-working traveler to fall on the sword to allow, for example, a meth-addict disaster to keep his job just because he is local hand is absurd.


I agree completely. My only point is there is always a lay-off from the job just when the workforce is about to peak. Every contractor does it.......if they 50 men they will hire 75 to 80 and _weed out_ the ones that they don't want. If the supervision is truly paying attention to his guys he will know who is producing and who isn't. Those meth heads and lazy ass unproductive pooch bangers should never make it past that first round of layoffs. 
I know it happens though. 
They end up staying because their buddy is the foreman or they managed to do enough to make it past that first round and then let their true colors show through when they think they are untouchable.
From the contractor point of view that idea stinks.



jordan_paul said:


> That's because number 1 is the only number that matters.


That sounds like a non-union statement for sure.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

mr hands said:


> sounds like you're really full of doodoo now.
> 
> Best stfu and mind your own business.
> 
> ...


Lol buddy don't get mad just getting stating facts here. Don't tell me I have to prove myself that I'm a GF. Take a chill pill relax and enjoy the day especially on pay day.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

Look guys the reason I was asking was because I am a General foreman and I have some travelers on my job. Theyre are good hands I am constantly getting hit up by my local buddies to lay them off. I have good local hands and good travelers. Also it was a discussion that was brought up by a journeyman last week. So I thought I'll bring it to this discussion board since it is a discussion board? Some of you guys get your panties all in a bunch. Remember its a discussion board.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

408sparky said:


> Look guys the reason I was asking was because I am a General foreman and I have some travelers on my job. Theyre are good hands I am constantly getting hit up by my local buddies to lay them off. I have good local hands and good travelers. Also it was a discussion that was brought up by a journeyman last week. So I thought I'll bring it to this discussion board since it is a discussion board? Some of you guys get your panties all in a bunch. Remember its a discussion board.


If your hall is filling up with local hands, lay them off. If not, keep them. 

You feed your family first.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

Rollie73 said:


> That sounds like a non-union statement for sure.


Started non union. Been in the union now for three years. Getting sick of union. Again, myself and my family comes first.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

I accept that every local has our share of tards.

And I expect that about 30% of payroll is a donation to welfare.

Why should it be any different than the rest of America?

We have welfare for defense contractors, welfare for agribusiness, welfare for drug companies, welfare for hospitals, welfare for companies who ship their jobs to china, welfare for megacorporations, welfare for banks, and welfare for blacks. Surely we can shave a slice of pie off for less than able wiremen. There's not much pie left for me anyways, no house in the hills, no house on the lake, no house in mexico, no ski lodge getaway, none of that. Best thing I can do is to take care of my own. For better or worse, they are my people, and that's truly the way I see it.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

408sparky said:


> Ok brothers and sisters how do you guys feels about travelers staying in your own home local? Work here in Local 332 is drying up just a bit, but will pick back up in the beginning of the new year. We have close to 400 travelers here and close to 200 on the out of work book 1 list. So what is your guys take on this. I know that when I've travelled to other locals, local hands look down on me. So out of respect for the Local I always requested to be laid off as soon as I knew the job was winding down. What's your guys take on this? Since there's people from all over the country here.


Book 2 should be laid off before book 1. The last man on the jobsite off book 2 should be laid off before the first man from book 1 gets a layoff, speaking in terms of lack of work layoffs. If there is a termination for cause with a local hand it's different. Travelers are working in your house, I wouldn't ever take work away from a local hand if I was in his house. That's my opinion 408sparky.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

mr hands said:


> I accept that every local has our share of tards.
> 
> And I expect that about 30% of payroll is a donation to welfare.
> 
> ...


It seems like you a little pissed of your taxes going over to the government. I hear you on that.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Brother Noah said:


> What he is saying (in my opinion) is an unethical traveler taking short call after short call in several different locals and still keeping their names on all the books. I have heard the unethical say as long as its a short call its okay to keep your name on all other "out of work" list because its a short call. Well I have worked out of locals with a 3 day short call and I know of one local that has an 120 day short call! So where do the alibis stop and being true to OUR IBEW start? We have an out of work list so all will get their chance to earn a living for their immediate family.


I'm kind of unclear on what you're saying. You're saying men are staying on everyone's book 2 and just manning the short calls local to local, to work their spot until they can get a regular call out of one of the locals they're working short calls? Is it double booking when you take a short call out of one local and stay on the books in other locals? The way my president had explained it to me is that there's a short call book and a regular call book, I found this out when a brother ahead of me almost didn't get the short call because he had a short call since he signed the book, he was ahead of me on the regular call book 1 though. I say if you take a short call in one local, you should have to sign the short call book in every local after your laid off, does this make sense?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

jordan_paul said:


> Started non union. Been in the union now for three years. *Getting sick of union*. Again, myself and my family comes first.


Time for you to get out and go back to non-union. It doesn't sound like you really want to be a member anyway. 

Why is that you are getting sick of the union??:001_huh:


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Rollie73 said:


> Time to get out and go back to non-union. It doesn't sound like you really want to be a member anyway.
> 
> Why is that you are getting sick of the union??:001_huh:


If you want to be union you are welcome brother. If you're going back then stay there, that's what I call straddling the fence. Pick a side, I'm union till i die! Don't go back and forth depending on your personal work situation.


----------



## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Bigssweet said:


> If you want to be union you are welcome brother. If you're going back then stay there, that's what I call straddling the fence. Pick a side, I'm union till i die! Don't go back and forth depending on your personal work situation.


 
Don't read that wrong. I meant it's time for the member I quoted to get out. 

I'm a union man through and through. My father is one of the original members of our local......been in the local since Feb, 1964. He is getting his 50 year pin and celebration in Feb of next year:thumbsup:....... I'm in there since I was 18 and I'm in my 40's now, I used to sit on the e-board but then I became a co-owner of the shop and that privelege is gone. My uncle is a former business manager of our local............and it goes on.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Started non union. Been in the union now for three years. Getting sick of union. Again, myself and my family comes first.


Hang in there brother there's always ups and downs in our trade.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

Rollie73 said:


> Time for you to get out and go back to non-union. It doesn't sound like you really want to be a member anyway.
> 
> Why is that you are getting sick of the union??:001_huh:


I'm tired of the majority of union men's elitist attitudes, the way that the union protects people that don't deserve or want to work, the way they pound which way to vote in political elections, the way the union picks wrong battles to fight, the way the IBEW gives up work when things are busy and have next to **** all when times are slow. The way union guys call everyone brother, the way the IBEW ****s on non-union and other unions, the tool list, how most union members are extremely short sighted, how the majority of union men believe the contractor is the enemy, how half the union men I've met are the biggest thieves I've ever seen, the useless group of pussys called the FLEAs, how unions will strike over a nickel, how hard working guys in the union get **** on by the "brothers" because they are being out worked, travel rules, the fact that you can't solicit yourself to contractors, how the union can't see the bottom falling out of it's organization.

For anyone to say that they are better then anyone else who isn't union is a complete idiot. I don't see too many benefits of being union anymore. A real man can stand up for himself when something isn't right, he doesn't have to get the union to "greive" anyone. A good man can negotiate his own salary with out a group of bottom feeders to reap the benefits of the hard working.

Saying that myself and a group of guys are trying to change everything that is wrong with the union. If it works great I'll stay. If not I won't. Why do you work union?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

jordan_paul said:


> Why do you work union?


Great pay, conditions and benefits. Additionally I do the kind of work I like and work with the kinds of folks I like to work with. I get paid well to do a quality job.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

Jordan, I myself, and many others, will only work with effort when the task masters treat me with dignity and respect. 

Maybe you will learn that just because some manager put his dingbat phone **** buddy in the foreman slot doesn't mean you should automatically bust your ass for him. He has got to earn it from me first. It is I who have the skills and ability that he and the EC need to complete the job. The EC can't do the work all by hisself you know, the customer doesn't know that.

I bust my ass for who I chose, when I chose. Other than that, I know exactly how long work should take, and choose to dial in my own production accordingly. I got other things I want to do with my life. I don't want to go home and collapse in the barkolounger because I am worn out. Maybe after you do this a bit longer, you'll come to the same conclusion.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

eejack said:


> Great pay, conditions and benefits. Additionally I do the kind of work I like and work with the kinds of folks I like to work with. I get paid well to do a quality job.


Agreed brother. Except I love my brothers, good or bad and will do what I can for them.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Rollie73 said:


> Don't read that wrong. I meant it's time for the member I quoted to get out.
> 
> I'm a union man through and through. My father is one of the original members of our local......been in the local since Feb, 1964. He is getting his 50 year pin and celebration in Feb of next year:thumbsup:....... I'm in there since I was 18 and I'm in my 40's now, I used to sit on the e-board but then I became a co-owner of the shop and that privelege is gone. My uncle is a former business manager of our local............and it goes on.
> 
> :thumbsup::thumbsup:


To rollie73, that wasn't directed towards you brother.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> I'm tired of the majority of union men's elitist attitudes, the way that the union protects people that don't deserve or want to work, the way they pound which way to vote in political elections, the way the union picks wrong battles to fight, the way the IBEW gives up work when things are busy and have next to **** all when times are slow. The way union guys call everyone brother, the way the IBEW ****s on non-union and other unions, the tool list, how most union members are extremely short sighted, how the majority of union men believe the contractor is the enemy, how half the union men I've met are the biggest thieves I've ever seen, the useless group of pussys called the FLEAs, how unions will strike over a nickel, how hard working guys in the union get **** on by the "brothers" because they are being out worked, travel rules, the fact that you can't solicit yourself to contractors, how the union can't see the bottom falling out of it's organization.
> 
> For anyone to say that they are better then anyone else who isn't union is a complete idiot. I don't see too many benefits of being union anymore. A real man can stand up for himself when something isn't right, he doesn't have to get the union to "greive" anyone. A good man can negotiate his own salary with out a group of bottom feeders to reap the benefits of the hard working.
> 
> Saying that myself and a group of guys are trying to change everything that is wrong with the union. If it works great I'll stay. If not I won't. Why do you work union?


You obviously have the wrong attitude jordan_paul. We're elite because we are the best. We take pride in craftsmanship. I don't know the experiences you've personally had with union brothers, I haven't seen your work or what you can do. You may be an excellent electrician and if you are I'm sorry you're getting **** for being organized in. I was trained by a couple of organized hands, who trained me to run beautiful conduit. I took in an organized brother into my home when he had hard times, I'm having hard times now and he's carrying me because he's my brother. Whatever problems you are having is with individuals, not the union itself. I organize any and all electricians I possibly can, we're all brothers, don't let a few detour you from being not only the best electrician, but the best brother that you can be. Don't complain about our union, if you don't like it leave it. Just constructive criticism for you, sorry some brothers offended you, but you probably met some good brothers too. That's my peace.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Bigssweet said:


> You obviously have the wrong attitude jordan_paul. We're elite because we are the best. We take pride in craftsmanship. I don't know the experiences you've personally had with union brothers, I haven't seen your work or what you can do. You may be an excellent electrician and if you are I'm sorry you're getting **** for being organized in. I was trained by a couple of organized hands, who trained me to run beautiful conduit. I took in an organized brother into my home when he had hard times, I'm having hard times now and he's carrying me because he's my brother. Whatever problems you are having is with individuals, not the union itself. I organize any and all electricians I possibly can, we're all brothers, don't let a few detour you from being not only the best electrician, but the best brother that you can be. Don't complain about our union, if you don't like it leave it. Just constructive criticism for you, sorry some brothers offended you, but you probably met some good brothers too. That's my peace.


And please don't get my started on the tool list subject.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

All this "brother" talk is gay.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

If you think family is GAY, then you yourself have issues.

Because that's what it is, family. After ups and downs with the same group of johns, we can see we are all similar, more alike than we are different. We got to do what is best for us.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

mr hands said:


> If you think family is GAY, then you yourself have issues.
> 
> Because that's what it is, family. After ups and downs with the same group of johns, we can see we are all similar, more alike than we are different. We got to do what is best for us.


Gay.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

jordan_paul said:


> I'm tired of the majority of union men's elitist attitudes, the way that the union protects people that don't deserve or want to work, the way they pound which way to vote in political elections, the way the union picks wrong battles to fight, the way the IBEW gives up work when things are busy and have next to **** all when times are slow. The way union guys call everyone brother, the way the IBEW ****s on non-union and other unions, the tool list, how most union members are extremely short sighted, how the majority of union men believe the contractor is the enemy, how half the union men I've met are the biggest thieves I've ever seen, the useless group of pussys called the FLEAs, how unions will strike over a nickel, how hard working guys in the union get **** on by the "brothers" because they are being out worked, travel rules, the fact that you can't solicit yourself to contractors, how the union can't see the bottom falling out of it's organization.
> 
> For anyone to say that they are better then anyone else who isn't union is a complete idiot. I don't see too many benefits of being union anymore. A real man can stand up for himself when something isn't right, he doesn't have to get the union to "greive" anyone. A good man can negotiate his own salary with out a group of bottom feeders to reap the benefits of the hard working.
> 
> Saying that myself and a group of guys are trying to change everything that is wrong with the union. If it works great I'll stay. If not I won't. Why do you work union?



It's unfortunate that you've had such negative experiences. At some point a man must ask himself why things haven't turned out quite like the dreams one had growing up. You should ask yourself, is it every single persons fault _but_ mine? Am I to blame for even one single negative thing that has happened to me in life? Am I responsible for my own life? Am I responsible for my own future?

You seem to not understand economic and political power. There are things that happen in organizations that don't make sense to everyone all the time. You put down having a union handle grievances, that really sounds a lot like STRAIGHT UP PROPAGANDA. Do you have $100,000 and 5 years to spare for a lawsuit? That's what you need to do to have your grievance addressed here in the USA if you're not part of a labor union. A rich man came up with the, "You aren't a real man if you won't stand up for yourself--by yourself." men who believe this LIE are WEAK because they are DIVIDED. Negotiations without union power boil down to this: a take-it or leave-it offer at hiring. Grievances without union power boil down to this: if you make too much noise (complain too much) you get fired -- issues are not relevant.

I'm sure that some union members want you in the union (at least officially). I am not one of those people. You sound angry, like you're looking for someone/something to be angry at. Someone to blame. I cannot relate at all.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Id join the IBEW if It was in NZ, current EPMU is to wrought with left wing political leanings and members of political parties.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

The IBEW has left-leaning ideals, but has no shortage of right-wing members. The typical member drives a pickup truck and is somewhat of a conservative.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

uconduit said:


> The IBEW has left-leaning ideals, but has no shortage of right-wing members. The typical member drives a pickup truck and is somewhat of a conservative.


I drive a ford econovan for work and am somewhat of a conservative. Haha.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

chewy said:


> All this "brother" talk is gay.


Like I say, some brothers never accept organized hands, some brothers organize hands. You're welcome in my brotherhood brother if you have the right attitude brother. I can see that it's not for you, so go back to non-union. Whatever makes you happy, and I won't call you brother because apparently that offends you. I treat my union brothers like my biological brother, and it was never gay!


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

chewy said:


> Id join the IBEW if It was in NZ, current EPMU is to wrought with left wing political leanings and members of political parties.


My bad chewy,I should have read all the posts first. So you've never been a member then? Well stay of the union section if the forum.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Bigssweet said:


> My bad chewy,I should have read all the posts first. So you've never been a member then? Don't degrade my union. I see you're a data tech, and now you're an apprentice? I'm not gonna knock you for that, as a first year apprentice I had a fellow brother driving a service van for one of the best contractors out of my local. He completed the program, he still terminates cat 6 and fiber, but he's also a journeyman wireman now. I'm pretty open minded, but if you don't like union then don't get involved in a union discussion please and thank you. Hopefully you don't take offense to this, but it's like telling a Muslim to believe in Jesus, it won't work and isn't happening. I'm posting this with respect and tact, but don't degrade my union.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

And I'd love to see IBEW in New Zealand! But don't knock the brother talk, when you are a brother, you have many brothers, it's not gay dude, it's more like having a brother, but now I have thousands of brothers, it's a way of life, I'm sorry you can't join because it's not available to you.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Bigssweet said:


> Like I say, some brothers never accept organized hands, some brothers organize hands. You're welcome in my brotherhood brother if you have the right attitude brother. I can see that it's not for you, so go back to non-union. Whatever makes you happy, and I won't call you brother because apparently that offends you. I treat my union brothers like my biological brother, and it was never gay!


Cultish.


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## WhitehouseRT (Aug 20, 2013)

stop worrying so much about what other people are doing, and who is from where, and just worry about doing your own job....


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Bigssweet said:


> And I'd love to see IBEW in New Zealand! But don't knock the brother talk, when you are a brother, you have many brothers, it's not gay dude, it's more like having a brother, but now I have thousands of brothers, it's a way of life, I'm sorry you can't join because it's not available to you.


Theres plenty of ex-IBEW in NZ, a family friend who I consider my uncle but not my brother but maybe my dads brother who is not an electrician but an avid amatuer carpenter so they cannot be brothers was from the Allentown local, used to live in kunkletown, I think that gave him a fever on the brain. We worked together up the line pulling in 400pr cable and 72 core fibre on a 37km stretch direct burial with a mole plough across cattle stations then 6km in conduits underground. Youll learn alot about a man living and working with him for 8 weeks.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

chewy said:


> Theres plenty of ex-IBEW in NZ, a family friend who I consider my uncle but not my brother but maybe my dads brother who is not an electrician but an avid amatuer carpenter so they cannot be brothers was from the Allentown local, used to live in kunkletown, I think that gave him a fever on the brain. We worked together up the line pulling in 400pr cable and 72 core fibre on a 37km stretch direct burial with a mole plough across cattle stations then 6km in conduits underground. Youll learn alot about a man living and working with him for 8 weeks.


Right on dude, worked and lived with a good brother for about 3 months not to long ago. We were the only JW's tooled up together, every other JW had an apprentice, we did good work, EMT but still. I'm staying with another brother time after facing some hard times, the brotherhood is out for all it's members. If you need help you can get it, and help when you can. Peace chewy.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Bigssweet said:


> Right on dude, worked and lived with a good brother for about 3 months not to long ago. We were the only JW's tooled up together, every other JW had an apprentice, we did good work, EMT but still. I'm staying with another brother time after facing some hard times, the brotherhood is out for all it's members. If you need help you can get it, and help when you can. Peace chewy.


Peace out.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

you're just an apprentice.

It will take time, but you'll learn what this racket is all about. Regardless of the union's political agenda, every time I been in deep water, the brotherhood has been there for me.

Got mega-stoned and called an ambulance because I thought I was having a heartattack... my benefits covered it, and flex plan paid for the rest. Almost $5000 of bills on the call. 

My kid's got a mouth full of BAD teeth, not our fault, the enamel just fell off. The brotherhood's dental plan picked up almost $15k on that one.

I don't pay out of pocket for my health either... It's all paid for by the contractor, for my whole family. Plus I get a couple bucks into a flex account every hour, before taxes, to get reimbursed for anything medical out of pocket. 

We take care of our own. Guy on my crew busted up his knee at home. He's on light duty for now. He's not on the next layoff, he's making 40 per week. I am proud of how we treat our fellow members. If you are ibew working at a sweat shop, where people are just another cost code, then that's your own fault. We got to make this industry WORK FOR US. Only electricians can do this work, don't do it for lesser conditions.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

mr hands said:


> you're just an apprentice.
> 
> It will take time, but you'll learn what this racket is all about. Regardless of the union's political agenda, every time I been in deep water, the brotherhood has been there for me.
> 
> ...


Only IBEW j-men will ever say "you're just an apprentice" which is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. Just because I don't hold the same ticket as you my opinions don't matter eh? You're right, I've been in the union for three years, still have about a year to go before I'm licensed but once I get it I will immediately love the IBEW because I'm not "just an apprentice anymore".

That's your stupid (and illegal) fault, getting "mega-stoned" should have cost you and no one else five grand. That's the typical attitude of union people, not taking responsibility for their own actions.

As for your kids, there is a lot of open shop with as good or better benefits plans then the IBEW. That for a fact I know.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

Bigssweet said:


> And please don't get my started on the tool list subject.


Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:

IBEW TOOL LIST
Bring everything you need to do your job *besides*:
-benders
-threaders
-KO sets (optional though)
-PPE (harnesses optional though)

The contractor will supply the above, you supply everything else.

In Solitary,
Executive J.O.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


The way I see it is there will be lots of haters out there that will try to bring you down. You do what you need to do to get the job done. Once you start ranking up the ladder chain people will stop telling on you instead you'll have people trying to kiss your azz. I've noticed to stay on a job is by showing initiative and performance. Also very important to be social with your own co workers. I've been hit up by a journeyman about a tool which was a uni bit and I told him F U I got this from a contractor. Gotta remember only the strong survive


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


Also its in solidarity.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

408sparky said:


> Also its in solidarity.


****in autocorrect .


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Sometimes I miss working union. Lots and lots of money to be made when you work solid. 

But I am a lazy bastard now so I am not sure how well I'd do. I really can't do a lot of it anymore anyway so **** it.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


My local agreement is real vague. A complete set of tools to do any ordinary job except the following, what you mentioned, so it's subject to interpretation. Also, socket sets is specifically mentioned on the do not bring list, and so many guys bring them in, but then want to complain when the contractor does something not in their own personal favor. You're not union, look up the definition of union. I go by my agreement, bylaws and constitution. I don't **** my brothers by doing wormy ****, I may be radical in your opinion, but I'd put the tools I have on the tool list to the test with your whole gang box of tools. Let me quote Merle haggard, "If you don't love it leave it!"


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


And there's no IBEW tool list, each local has its own. That's the 2nd thing I do when I sign book 2.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


Harnesses optional? Where the duck you get this tool list?


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


And KO puncher setsis optional too? Let me get my personal 3 and 1/2 inch cup and cutter with my personal hydraulic pump! You might as well bring in your personal table bender and your personal gang box full of bending shoes. If your agreement states this bull****, then that's called getting ****ed. I'll never buy any KO punches or harnesses. Does it state optional?


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


I just looked your local up, there's 34 rules for the dispatch procedure. Your local has to have a defined tool list, guaranteed.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

jordan_paul said:


> Please do. Getting **** on by the "brothers" because I have tools that make the job easier on me that aren't on the tool list is really getting old. The tool list should pretty much be:
> 
> IBEW TOOL LIST
> Bring everything you need to do your job besides:
> ...


And what about 120 volt drills? Reciprocating saws? My tool list is vague, but Jesus man. Go to Home Depot buy your own electric tools, and take them to your next non-union jobs, you're breaking down conditions. That's all I'm gonna say to you. Don't use my union to get you're foot in the door and not be there to back it up. And go cross a picket line while you bring your personal harness!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bigssweet, I think you should quote his post again.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

408sparky said:


> Also its in solidarity.


And sparky, I have no problem with your statements, and I agree with solidarity because that might as well mean union. We have certain issues between the contractors, the halls, and the men, but if you're not willing to go by what the union/contractor negotiation agreement then you're breaking down conditions. The contractor will and does hold that over us for their benefit, so few brothers throw it back at them because they're job scared. I'm welcomed back at all the contractors I've worked for without breaking down conditions. I agree with what you said we gotta have solidarity, but if anyone talks **** about my union then get the **** out. I'm not ranting at you sparky, tool list is a touchy subject with me.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Bigssweet, I think you should quote his post again.


One more time?


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Bigssweet said:


> One more time?


ONE MORE TIME!


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

chewy said:


> ONE MORE TIME! <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBhQbmPwH8">YouTube Link</a>


C'mon chewy, don't instigate! Lol


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Bigssweet said:


> C'mon chewy, don't instigate! Lol


I dont really know what I'm doing here then...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I never had a problem bringing in tools that weren't on the tool list, but it was OK because my local had a minimum tool list, not a maximum. 

I also think journeymen should provide their own drills. I'd love to use my own 12V impact instead of the crap they usually had available.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I never had a problem bringing in tools that weren't on the tool list, but it was OK because my local had a minimum tool list, not a maximum.
> 
> I also think journeymen should provide their own drills. I'd love to use my own 12V impact instead of the crap they usually had available.


Jesus man, really? I've worked with some bad contractors too, and the few they had, but it's their responsibility to provide them, don't think they don't put these costs in the job bid.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

chewy said:


> I dont really know what I'm doing here then...


You're alright chewy, I think, lol.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bigssweet said:


> Jesus man, really? I've worked with some bad contractors too, and the few they had, but it's their responsibility to provide them, don't think they don't put these costs in the job bid.


Who says it should be their responsibility? 

I say it should be the journeyman's responsibility. There's nothing wrong with that.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Who says it should be their responsibility?
> 
> I say it should be the journeyman's responsibility. There's nothing wrong with that.


Are you union? You're locals inside agreement is what you go by. Or the local you're working at, there agreement.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bigssweet said:


> Are you union? You're locals inside agreement is what you go by. Or the local you're working at, there agreement.


You know those change, right?

I'd like to see it change to include having journeyman bring their own battery drills.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

HackWork said:


> You know those change, right?
> 
> I'd like to see it change to include having journeyman bring their own battery drills.


Yeah they change, you don't what doesn't seem to change? Wages. Oh wait no, they change because insurance gets more expensive.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

HackWork said:


> You know those change, right?
> 
> I'd like to see it change to include having journeyman bring their own battery drills.


And yeah, every three years. The tool list doesn't change though.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

Bigssweet said:


> And KO puncher setsis optional too? Let me get my personal 3 and 1/2 inch cup and cutter with my personal hydraulic pump! You might as well bring in your personal table bender and your personal gang box full of bending shoes. If your agreement states this bull****, then that's called getting ****ed. I'll never buy any KO punches or harnesses. Does it state optional?


Read what I wrote really slowly.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bigssweet said:


> Yeah they change, you don't what doesn't seem to change? Wages. Oh wait no, they change because insurance gets more expensive.


Bologna, my local's wages have gone up every single year except for 1 when there was a freeze, but they made up for it afterwards.

An A journeyman makes $50.15/hr in his paycheck and an additional $30+/hr for benefits and retirement.

Quit crying already.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bigssweet said:


> And yeah, every three years. The tool list doesn't change though.


It _should_ change.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

HackWork said:


> It should change.


When it changes I'll be the first one to have those required tools, but will not bring them if its against the agreement. I draw a line like the contractor will. Unfortunately it's like a game of tug o war. Don't get me wrong, I want the contractor to make money hand over fist, and I'm gonna make money, as will my apprentice. But I'm not breaking down our conditions so the contractor can take their yacht on an extra trip this year. It's give and take, my work speaks for itself, even if I stir up a little **** about following the rules, the contractor still wants me.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

I give 8 for 8. That's what I do, and I follow the rules.


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## jordan_paul (Oct 4, 2011)

Bigssweet said:


> When it changes I'll be the first one to have those required tools, but will not bring them if its against the agreement. I draw a line like the contractor will. Unfortunately it's like a game of tug o war. Don't get me wrong, I want the contractor to make money hand over fist, and I'm gonna make money, as will my apprentice. But I'm not breaking down our conditions so the contractor can take their yacht on an extra trip this year. It's give and take, my work speaks for itself, even if I stir up a little **** about following the rules, the contractor still wants me.


You're what's wrong with the union.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Well I get it, even if you don't. I make the contractor money with my work ethic and my spirit with the union. Your bashing my union by talking about going back non union. I pick a side and stick with it brother! I'll put my tools to the test with yours anyday. And I won't **** my brothers doing it. Get on your personal cell phone on call your GF today.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

I thought this was travelers talk thread. There aren't any on this thread anyways. I'm done, enjoy ****ing your brothers.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

The reason for the tool list is very simple. 

I have 30 years of my 'own' tools - you cannot compete with the tools 'I' own or can bring to a job on a day's notice. I have, compared to someone just coming out of their time, unlimited buying power and if I don't have it, I can get it.

So who do they lay off first, the young mechanic with no tools or me?

It is a collective, we work with and for each other. The common tool list helps us do that and helps the contractor since they know what they need to provide and can count on the mechanics bringing their required tools.

There is no confusion over broken or lost tools either - hand tools are mine to replace, power tools are the contractors.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

eejack said:


> The reason for the tool list is very simple.
> 
> I have 30 years of my 'own' tools - you cannot compete with the tools 'I' own or can bring to a job on a day's notice. I have, compared to someone just coming out of their time, unlimited buying power and if I don't have it, I can get it.
> 
> ...


I won't be competing with you with my tools. We'd be working together i think. I'm no 30 veteran. I respect you sir.


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## 408sparky (Jan 11, 2013)

Bigssweet said:


> And sparky, I have no problem with your statements, and I agree with solidarity because that might as well mean union. We have certain issues between the contractors, the halls, and the men, but if you're not willing to go by what the union/contractor negotiation agreement then you're breaking down conditions. The contractor will and does hold that over us for their benefit, so few brothers throw it back at them because they're job scared. I'm welcomed back at all the contractors I've worked for without breaking down conditions. I agree with what you said we gotta have solidarity, but if anyone talks **** about my union then get the **** out. I'm not ranting at you sparky, tool list is a touchy subject with me.


I definitely agree the thing is we are all here to make money for our families and for the contractor. Sometimes the contractors and I'm referring to small shops they don't have money to spend on just simple stuff that will benefit the company's. We are here to help the contractor and ourselves. I've never bought a uni bit I've received them from previous big contractors. So why why I try to take from his profits and since I have the tool why not use it. I understand if I start seeing the contractor being cheap and he's out their buying toys then of course I'm going to hit up the company for tools. Thats just my take sometimes people will say stuff because of insecurity issues. I just like to contribute back if the contractor contributes to me. Its all about give and take. Yea I come in early sometimes and leave late, but sometimes I leave early on Fridays and get paid.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

408sparky said:


> I definitely agree the thing is we are all here to make money for our families and for the contractor. Sometimes the contractors and I'm referring to small shops they don't have money to spend on just simple stuff that will benefit the company's. We are here to help the contractor and ourselves. I've never bought a uni bit I've received them from previous big contractors. So why why I try to take from his profits and since I have the tool why not use it. I understand if I start seeing the contractor being cheap and he's out their buying toys then of course I'm going to hit up the company for tools. Thats just my take sometimes people will say stuff because of insecurity issues. I just like to contribute back if the contractor contributes to me. Its all about give and take. Yea I come in early sometimes and leave late, but sometimes I leave early on Fridays and get paid.


The way you break that down sparky is respectable. I'm not one who keeps taking, like I say it is give and take. I do work 8 for 8, I've come in early, left late, and have had my time covered too. I'm a good hand and a good brother. The tool list issue is touchy with me when guys bring their own personal tools that are strictly stated for not to bring. Bits, hole saws, they should be given back to the contractor you got them from when you leave the job, they bought them, but I'm guilty of having a drill bit or 2, a lead anchor set, bought by 1 contractor I've used on another contractors job. I'm not splitting hairs, what I'm saying is don't go against your locals inside agreement. That is my point.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Who says it should be their responsibility?
> 
> I say it should be the journeyman's responsibility. There's nothing wrong with that.





HackWork said:


> You know those change, right?
> 
> I'd like to see it change to include having journeyman bring their own battery drills.


........I'm not supplying power or battery drills, whats next triple nickles?:jester:


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

360max said:


> ........I'm not supplying power or battery drills, whats next triple nickles?:jester:


I'm gonna need you to bring in a pipe stretcher, and your personal bucket of ohms too!


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Bigssweet said:


> I'm gonna need you to bring in a pipe stretcher, and your personal bucket of ohms too!


My bucket of ohms is rather heavy, should I use a sky hook to carry it in?


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

eejack said:


> My bucket of ohms is rather heavy, should I use a sky hook to carry it in?


No, just keep it in your personal vehicle. Keep it right next to your greenlee bender too!


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Bigssweet said:


> No, just keep it in your personal vehicle. Keep it right next to your greenlee bender too!


the triple nickel or the 881?
or should I just bring the box truck?


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

eejack said:


> the triple nickel or the 881?
> or should I just bring the box truck?


Being in your smart bender if you can, we can get by with your 555 though, but make sure you have all the bending shoes and rollers. And bring the table bender too, and I'm gonna need you go get 2 2" sticks of ridged conduit too. Will all that fit in your Mazda Miata?


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Bigssweet said:


> The way you break that down sparky is respectable. I'm not one who keeps taking, like I say it is give and take. I do work 8 for 8, I've come in early, left late, and have had my time covered too. I'm a good hand and a good brother. The tool list issue is touchy with me when guys bring their own personal tools that are strictly stated for not to bring. Bits, hole saws, they should be given back to the contractor you got them from when you leave the job, they bought them, but I'm guilty of having a drill bit or 2, a lead anchor set, bought by 1 contractor I've used on another contractors job. I'm not splitting hairs, what I'm saying is don't go against your locals inside agreement. That is my point.


Drill bits are consumables, you can keep them for all I care. The set tool is considered a tool, I would definitely want that back. 

I am a contractor. I have no problem with our locals tool list other then it should include a basic socket set, rotozip, and amp clamp meter.

Some things are give and take. Our basic guys understand that. It doesn't make them wormy either. But I also give vacation and holiday pay that's not in the contract, and Christmas bonus. They know its a team effort for the company to be successful.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

dawgs said:


> Drill bits are consumables, you can keep them for all I care. The set tool is considered a tool, I would definitely want that back.
> 
> I am a contractor. I have no problem with our locals tool list other then it should include a basic socket set, rotozip, and amp clamp meter.
> 
> Some things are give and take. Our basic guys understand that. It doesn't make them wormy either. But I also give vacation and holiday pay that's not in the contract, and Christmas bonus. They know its a team effort for the company to be successful.


That sounds pretty good, VACA? Christmas bonus? It is a give and take relationship. The last contractor I worked for was rumored to be the best one, and I found out it was true. While it was only 5 weeks of work, we showed up and did our work like any union wireman should. One of the foremans is an officer of the local, treated us more than fair. The other foreman was a traveler for many years and knows how to treat the men as well. A lot of my issues are with not necessarily bad contractors, maybe bad foreman, I don't know I haven't been there. I do know when you treat the men fair, most of us will appreciate it and do an excellent job. I still won't break my agreement. Keep being a good contractor!


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Bigssweet said:


> That sounds pretty good, VACA? Christmas bonus? It is a give and take relationship. The last contractor I worked for was rumored to be the best one, and I found out it was true. While it was only 5 weeks of work, we showed up and did our work like any union wireman should. One of the foremans is an officer of the local, treated us more than fair. The other foreman was a traveler for many years and knows how to treat the men as well. A lot of my issues are with not necessarily bad contractors, maybe bad foreman, I don't know I haven't been there. I do know when you treat the men fair, most of us will appreciate it and do an excellent job. I still won't break my agreement. Keep being a good contractor!


I agree with team effort, I'm not working against any contractor, I'm working with them. I'm all about all of us making money. My tool list is unlined except for expendable tools and pipe wrenches and socket sets and some other items. I have a clamp on ammeter, it's not against my tool list, I like to check voltage with both leads in both hands and not have to worry about holding a meter. I was off book 2 in a suitcase local, seen their tool list, and they specified a wiggy on it. I went out and bought a wiggy so I would meet that list. I agree if you treat the men better than what you are required to do, they'll do the best job and put the best work they can to their ability.


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## Bigssweet (Oct 10, 2013)

Undefined*


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