# Dining Room Rec AFCI/GFCI



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

If you add some dining room rec. to the 2nd appliance circuit of kitchen does it need to be afci as well?? conflicting


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Yep. it does


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Code*

So, technically if you have 2 gfci outlets on kitchen countertop and add 1 outlet in dining room adjacent, you now have to afci the circuit as well as gfci it??


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> So, technically if you have 2 gfci outlets on kitchen countertop and add 1 outlet in dining room adjacent, you now have to afci the circuit as well as gfci it??


Yep again


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yep again


I concur.

Chris


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*New Homes*

If that's the case, then I bet most guys are adding the dining room recectacles to other rec. adjacent to that room. Cutting down on AFCI's I'm guessing. Back when I did new homes with just added them to kitchen gfci's and done with it. Long time ago...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> If that's the case, then I bet most guys are adding the dining room recectacles to other rec. adjacent to that room. Cutting down on AFCI's I'm guessing. Back when I did new homes with just added them to kitchen gfci's and done with it. Long time ago...


Now what room would you add the dining room rec. to?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Room*

Not sure what it's called. The kitchen is separate sort of...then a door'ish to dining / big room (1 big room sort of). Dining technically only needs 1 outlet per distance rules.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If the dining room is open to the Big Room it cannot be on that circuit-- you know that.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Plans*

I guess it comes down to what they call it on the official plans.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Clarify...*

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is why do you put dining room outlets on the appliance circuit of kitchen (which is excluded from afci protection) ,but, also list the dining room as needing afci protection???


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

The dining room has to be an a SABC, no one ever said it has to be on the same circuit with the kitchen. Code requires a _MINIMUM_ of 2 SABC.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

....


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Cletis said:


> One thing that doesn't make sense to me is why do you put dining room outlets on the appliance circuit of kitchen (which is excluded from afci protection) ,but, also list the dining room as needing afci protection???


People use toasters in the dining room. Code class 1989 :blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

dronai said:


> People use toasters in the dining room. Code class 1989 :blink:


And lots of hot plates at dinner time.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I never did meet one of those people...... But I have put plenty of afci breakers on kitchen sabc circuits so I could run on into the dining room. Curiously kitchen small appliance loads doesn't seem to mess with afci breakers very much in my experience. The kitchen appliance makers probably are very careful to not build in any ground faults. Wish all the other plug in equipment makers would.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Cletis said:


> So, technically if you have 2 gfci outlets on kitchen countertop and add 1 outlet in dining room adjacent, you now have to afci the circuit as well as gfci it??


I wonder if anyone has proposed a change to the 2014 to change any of this? In other words, exempt a room from having to have both GFCI and AFCI.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Little-Lectric said:


> I wonder if anyone has proposed a change to the 2014 to change any of this? In other words, exempt a room from having to have both GFCI and AFCI.


There is no NEC requirement to use both AFCI and GFCI.

It just happens that if you chose to combine the kitchen circuit and the dinning circuit you can end up with both.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I think what Bill is saying is if the circuit is GFCI protected then it should not need afci. Well they do different things and although most afci's have gfci protection not all do and those that do don't have the 4-6 ma protection that is required for personnel.


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## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I think what Bill is saying is if the circuit is GFCI protected then it should not need afci. Well they do different things and although most afci's have gfci protection not all do and those that do don't have the 4-6 ma protection that is required for personnel.


You always seem to answer the question correctly. Couldn't agree more.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*T n H*



HARRY304E said:


> And lots of hot plates at dinner time.


Toasters and Hotplates in the Dining room ? 

That was popular in the 50's/60's . I havent seen those things used recently in a dining room at all. And I've been in alot of dining rooms


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Cletis said:


> Toasters and Hotplates in the Dining room ?
> 
> That was popular in the 50's/60's . I havent seen those things used recently in a dining room at all. And I've been in alot of dining rooms


A lot of people don't even cook in their kitchens anymore, let alone the dining room.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

I have never seen a toaster in a dining room nor a hot plate, do people still use them?:blink:

Most people use those little cans that you light to keep food warm anymore. I'm just glad Michigan decided to nix afci use in any rooms but the bedrooms.


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