# Working without trainee card



## SeanHamburgers (Sep 25, 2018)

I’ve been in the trade about 2 years now, started in light residential, moved in to commercial TI work and now ended up in an industrial setting bending and running all aluminum threaded imc. Through all this I’ve been working without my electrical trainee certificate/card. My question is whether or not these hours will count toward the hours for my journeyman status or not. Hoping for some enlightenment, thanks.- Sean


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Sean, please fill in your profile on a laptop or desk top computer. This includes your location. Tnx


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Hey........that's not your real name, huh?
Until you fill out your profile, you're going to have to work for an answer.....
What have you heard? Not knowing your location, information may not apply to you specifically, or otherwise.
By "trainee" do you mean apprentice, CW/CE, laborer, shop rocket, "friend" of the owner, or related to him?
By not registering as an apprentice, you're burning hours toward your JW cert. and you may be denied, or postponed from sitting for the exam. Or otherwise penalized. What are you going to do if you're caught? I take it you're not at a union shop? Does your shop pay more for certified J-men over non-certified? Do they offer school, or training? Are you saving pay stubs? Why haven't you registered as an apprentice?


Thanks for all that "extra effort" on filling out your profile. We coulda assumed all that. Don't worry we're all friends here, and won't tell your boss what you do on this site.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The others have your sorted out pretty well, but I'm curious about something else.... what sort of location is it that's using a bunch of AL IMC? That was, once upon a time, how food and beverage was done, but I'm wondering what industry still uses this stuff.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Check this out...

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/ECU/ElectricalTrade.html
Also, you want to get into a formal apprenticeship for the best training.
IBEW or NECA apprenticeship.


----------



## SeanHamburgers (Sep 25, 2018)

joebanana said:


> Hey........that's not your real name, huh?
> Until you fill out your profile, you're going to have to work for an answer.....
> What have you heard? Not knowing your location, information may not apply to you specifically, or otherwise.
> By "trainee" do you mean apprentice, CW/CE, laborer, shop rocket, "friend" of the owner, or related to him?
> ...



Why would that not be my real name? Havent heard much pertaining to my specific question. Don't know much about the laws of going to work to be an electrician really I honestly apply for jobs and get them because thus far im skilled in what im doing. By trainee, yes, I mean apprentice. I have been in non union shops. I was at a shop offering to pay for schooling (itap which I haven't heard many good things about from the attendees from that shop). Have saved pay stubs, yes. Being that school is required has held me back a lot. Family/bills time for work etc etc. I have though just learned about the WECA online program which ill be signing up for. Not all the time in the world at the moment to fill out all the questions with my crap computer so I tried to fill out what was pertinent to the question I asked. Thanks


----------



## SeanHamburgers (Sep 25, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> The others have your sorted out pretty well, but I'm curious about something else.... what sort of location is it that's using a bunch of AL IMC? That was, once upon a time, how food and beverage was done, but I'm wondering what industry still uses this stuff.


Wineries, due to wash downs with chemical they use was what I was told.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

SeanHamburgers said:


> Why would that not be my real name? Havent heard much pertaining to my specific question. Don't know much about the laws of going to work to be an electrician really I honestly apply for jobs and get them because thus far im skilled in what im doing. By trainee, yes, I mean apprentice. I have been in non union shops. I was at a shop offering to pay for schooling (itap which I haven't heard many good things about from the attendees from that shop). Have saved pay stubs, yes. Being that school is required has held me back a lot. Family/bills time for work etc etc. I have though just learned about the WECA online program which ill be signing up for. Not all the time in the world at the moment to fill out all the questions with my crap computer so I tried to fill out what was pertinent to the question I asked. Thanks


If I recall correctly, ITAP isn't the route someone should go. WECA seems like a good way to go, hopefully, more knowledgeable posters can chime in as I'm in the South East US.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

SeanHamburgers said:


> Havent heard much pertaining to my specific question.


Have a little patience. Your question can only be answered with authority by someone from your state who currently is (or recently was) an apprentice or a CA shop owner that employs apprentices. It varies quite a bit from state to state. In general, if you're not officially "signed up" and if you're not with a shop that meets the requirements to train apprentices, you can sometimes be screwed. Wait a little bit for your specifics...


----------



## SeanHamburgers (Sep 25, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> Have a little patience. Your question can only be answered with authority by someone from your state who currently is (or recently was) an apprentice or a CA shop owner that employs apprentices. It varies quite a bit from state to state. In general, if you're not officially "signed up" and if you're not with a shop that meets the requirements to train apprentices, you can sometimes be screwed. Wait a little bit for your specifics...


that was in answer to his, "what have you heard?" question, but no doubt you are correct sir.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

It's tough to make phonecalls to licensing authorities when you work all day long, but if it was me, I'd try to get someone on the horn from your state.


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

SeanHamburgers said:


> *Why would that not be my real name? *Havent heard much pertaining to my specific question. Don't know much *about the laws of going to work to be an electrician* really I honestly apply for jobs and get them because thus far im skilled in what im doing. By trainee, yes, I mean apprentice. I have been in non union shops. I was at a shop offering to pay for schooling (itap which I haven't heard many good things about from the attendees from that shop). Have saved pay stubs, yes. Being that school is required has held me back a lot. Family/bills time for work etc etc. I have though just learned about the WECA online program which ill be signing up for. Not all the time in the world at the moment to fill out all the questions with my crap computer so I tried to fill out what was pertinent to the question I asked. Thanks


 Do you think joebanana is my real name?
Your employer should know the labor laws that pertain to his contractors license. He's going to put his license in jeopardy by doing what he's doing. Are the "journeymen" at this shop state certified? 

In order to hire you as an apprentice, you have to be registered with the state DIR/DAS as an apprentice. In order to be qualified as an apprentice, you have to be in an approved program that includes a certain amount of hours of school every week. So the answer to your specific question is, no. That WECA school ain't cheap, is your employer going to chip in?
Are you anywhere near Inyo, or Mono counties? I know people in that local union. In fact, I know people on the examining, and executive boards. Or you more near Dublin/Contra Costa?


----------



## SeanHamburgers (Sep 25, 2018)

joebanana said:


> Do you think joebanana is my real name?
> Your employer should know the labor laws that pertain to his contractors license. He's going to put his license in jeopardy by doing what he's doing. Are the "journeymen" at this shop state certified?
> 
> In order to hire you as an apprentice, you have to be registered with the state DIR/DAS as an apprentice. In order to be qualified as an apprentice, you have to be in an approved program that includes a certain amount of hours of school every week. So the answer to your specific question is, no. That WECA school ain't cheap, is your employer going to chip in?
> Are you anywhere near Inyo, or Mono counties? I know people in that local union. In fact, I know people on the examining, and executive boards. Or you more near Dublin/Contra Costa?


Over these last 2 years I’ve been through 3 shops. Most were certified, some weren’t. At one of them we had 1 journeyman (running the job) to at one point 18 apprentices. So I guess not all judgement is created equal. WECA at this point looks like my only option because it’s online, part time, and I can pay per class. I’m out of work right now, contractor ran dry so I’m looking for a place to get in to to hopefully assist me with the schooling side. I’m down in Monterey county. Want to apply for my local but I was a bad kid back in the day, never passed algebra and got my ged, so the entrance math steers test me off lain:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

SeanHamburgers said:


> Over these last 2 years I’ve been through 3 shops. Most were certified, some weren’t. At one of them we had 1 journeyman (running the job) to at one point 18 apprentices. So I guess not all judgement is created equal. WECA at this point looks like my only option because it’s online, part time, and I can pay per class. I’m out of work right now, contractor ran dry so I’m looking for a place to get in to to hopefully assist me with the schooling side. I’m down in Monterey county. Want to apply for my local but I was a bad kid back in the day, never passed algebra and got my ged, so the entrance math steers test me off lain:


When you leave a shop get a letter detailing your time there, may help can't hurt, I have letters going back to July 1970.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

PM me


----------



## SeanHamburgers (Sep 25, 2018)

Switched said:


> PM me


Thanks tried to. On a cell phone now and not too familiar with the site yet.


----------



## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

SeanHamburgers said:


> Thanks tried to. On a cell phone now and not too familiar with the site yet.


Download tapatalk and search for this site.

Makes viewing much more enjoyable on a phone!

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

SeanHamburgers said:


> Thanks tried to. On a cell phone now and not too familiar with the site yet.



Might not have enough post for PM?


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Start participating in other parts of the forum to get your post count up enough to PM me. I may be able to help, or offer advice, on where to go with this. 

I keep getting applications left and right form uncertified and unregistered. The guys don't realize how they are really doing themselves a disservice by not following the laws. It is screwing them, not the EC they may happen to be working with.


----------



## SeanHamburgers (Sep 25, 2018)

Switched said:


> Start participating in other parts of the forum to get your post count up enough to PM me. I may be able to help, or offer advice, on where to go with this.
> 
> I keep getting applications left and right form uncertified and unregistered. The guys don't realize how they are really doing themselves a disservice by not following the laws. It is screwing them, not the EC they may happen to be working with.


Sounds good will do. I realize this now more than ever, wasting a good amount of one is a bummer but I’m looking to get it sorted out. Signed up for my first class so I’ll be getting my confirmation letters to send in to the state soon.


----------



## Chaz (Aug 11, 2018)

I am in the exact same boat as you. 2 years in the trade, fairly good at, and no card. I recently enrolled in California Electrical Training. CET is less money than weca, online, and pretty fast. So far I like it


----------



## eric626 (Jan 5, 2015)

Definatly get your ET card. Most good shops won't hire you without it. Good shops will also reimburse education expenses.

As far as the state goes they don't check on your schooling at all. As long as you are working and paying taxes your hours will count. When you sign up to take the journeyman test you will have to provide a report from Social Security showing your employers and dates of employment. DO NOT work under the table.


----------



## DIRT27 (Aug 25, 2010)

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/ECU/Guide_for_Electricians_and_Trainees_2-07.pdf

That should have all the information you need. As far as your hours not counting so far I would say get a couple years of schooling and apply to take your license. When I took my General journeyman's test in California they weren't keep good records and didn't verify my hours. Some of my hours were under a C-45 electrical sign contractor and I didn't know if they would qualify. I know they didn't confirm anything and several others I worked with took the test without having enough qualifying hours.

This was in 2007 but I have a feeling they still aren't up to speed with the program. 

Getting into an apprenticeship might be your best route if you can do it. Like others said if you work for a decent shop they will probably pay for schooling. The Electrical Trainee route can work but you really have to put the effort in on your own. I worked with a lot of guys that would take the same classes every year and never really learned much about the trade as an electrical trainee.


----------



## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

MDShunk said:


> The others have your sorted out pretty well, but I'm curious about something else.... what sort of location is it that's using a bunch of AL IMC? That was, once upon a time, how food and beverage was done, but I'm wondering what industry still uses this stuff.


We used it at the packing plant I worked at. Much easier to run than Rob Roy, and still lasted just as long. The fittings were the real issue (because they were too cheap to buy form 7 fittings), so we spent a lot of time replacing those.

As far as wineries, I just did one. Of course they didn't want to pay for aluminum IMC, so a lot of the surface mount stuff in the production areas is just PVC. It is small and not really susceptible to physical damage though. I should probably take some pictures of the PLC/HMI I did for it at some point.


----------

