# Old Service Panel with NO Ground Bar



## PatQuan (May 8, 2014)

I look at a customer's Murray electric service panel. There is only one bar at the right hand side of the service panel where neutral wires are connected, and hot wires are connected to the circuit breakers. There is no bar at the service panel to connect ground wires for each circuit. The entire house has only those groundless "two wire" outlets, and there is no ground wire for switches. 

My customer asks me to install a new circuit. Since all slots are filled with circuit breakers, I want to replace a single circuit breaker with a duplex circuit breaker so that I can install an additional circuit for my customer. 

My question is: Would it be OK if I install a ground bar at the left hand side of the service panel and connect the ground wire to it? That way I can install GFI receptacles and regular outlets (instead of those "two wire" outlets) inside the house.

If I cannot install a new ground bar at the service panel, I guess the new circuit would have to be groundless, or I have to replace the old service panel with a new one.

Thanks in advance for any advice you might give me.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

PatQuan said:


> I look at a customer's Murray electric service panel. There is only one bar at the right hand side of the service panel where neutral wires are connected, and hot wires are connected to the circuit breakers. There is no bar at the service panel to connect ground wires for each circuit. The entire house has only those groundless "two wire" outlets, and there is no ground wire for switches.
> 
> My customer asks me to install a new circuit. Since all slots are filled with circuit breakers, I want to replace a single circuit breaker with a duplex circuit breaker so that I can install an additional circuit for my customer.
> 
> ...


Pat copy and paste your question here http://www.diychatroom.com/

Also considering you're a GC check this out. http://www.contractortalk.com/

This is a professional Electrical contractors board.

Your question is basic for a Journeymen Electrician, but too many things can go wrong with what you are working on. This job is best left to the professionals.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

PatQuan said:


> I look at a customer's Murray electric service panel. There is only one bar at the right hand side of the service panel where neutral wires are connected, and hot wires are connected to the circuit breakers. There is no bar at the service panel to connect ground wires for each circuit. The entire house has only those groundless "two wire" outlets, and there is no ground wire for switches.
> 
> My customer asks me to install a new circuit. Since all slots are filled with circuit breakers, I want to replace a single circuit breaker with a duplex circuit breaker so that I can install an additional circuit for my customer.
> 
> ...


Here's some advice: If you're a general contractor, get out of the panel. You're qualified to change light bulbs and wall plates. A wood butcher faking it as an electrician is not only sleazy, it's illegal in most places.


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