# Box Offset



## jw0445

If your going to do this on a regular basis or over many years buy yourself both 1/2" and a 3/4" offset benders. They will pay for themselves many times over. You put your conduit in the bender, press the lever down, and presto, perfect offsets every time. They run from $200 to $300 each new. Check ebay for some deals.


----------



## Cam

Best way to do this is to practice. Use scrape pieces of conduit with a box with a connector on it. Bend with bender standing up. Try to keep conduit straight to prevent dog leg when you turn it. Try small angles at at time. Youre get the hang of it.


----------



## MDShunk

Can't say as I've ever measured any offsets. I just eye it up. If I'm doing more than a few, I just use the offsetter tool.


----------



## Magnettica

Conduit Phil said:


> What is the proper way to bend a box offset in conduit? I've read that its roughly two 10 degree bends, but what is the spacing between bends? I usually just sort of eye ball it and tweak it until its right but I'd like to be more accurate and consistent.
> 
> Thanks


I pretty much eyeball it too. But obviously for an offset larger than just for a box I use 30º bends and use the multiplier of 2 so an 8" offset bend would make the bending marks 16" apart.


----------



## RIVETER

Magnettica said:


> I pretty much eyeball it too. But obviously for an offset larger than just for a box I use 30º bends and use the multiplier of 2 so an 8" offset bend would make the bending marks 16" apart.


That's it.


----------



## PDX-SPARKY

I use what is referred to as Kentucky Windage :icon_cheesygrin: Works like a charm.

What size pipe? 

If its 1/2" or 3/4" I just eye ball it, if it is 1" or larger then you can get into some calculations if applicable.

Usually if it is smaller pipe and I bend the Box Offset my first bend is a fingers width away from the end of the pipe (so I know where my first bend started and it doesn't pinch the end of the pipe), second bend is as close as I can get to the first bend radius or within 6" of the first bend. 

I was taught when you make an offset that it shouldn't be a drastic change but more of a smooth transition to the box for easier pulling.


----------



## slickvic277

For many,many box offsets I second the offset kicker.:thumbsup:


----------



## wishmaster68

amazon has them 1/2 inch for 180 and 3/4 for 260


----------



## Conduit Phil

If you look at the table on page 9 of http://www.mikeholt.com/documents/freestuff/BendingRoundRaceways.pdf

it says the distance between bends for a 10 degree bend is 2-7/8" .. Well someone mentioned on another thread that the distance between bends for a box offset is approximately 3". I tried using 3" and it was a little bit off, so I'm not sure if that 1/8" was the deciding factor or not.

I'm curious as to what degree and distance between bends that Greenlee bender uses.


----------



## 220/221

I have a couple of these I picked up at a garage sale somewhere.

Never used one.

Box offsets are over rated IMO but if I feel he need to use one, I just eyeball it like everyone else.


----------



## Conduit Phil

220/221 said:


> Box offsets are over rated IMO but if I feel he need to use one, I just eyeball it like everyone else.


Hack.


----------



## 220/221

Look at Newguy jumping right in there ^


:thumbsup:


----------



## pawirenut

Conduit Phil said:


> Hack.


 









Hackity hack this is what i use:laughing: But i dont use emt often in residential. Only in the basement i do and when i do i buy these.


----------



## Conduit Phil

pawirenut said:


> Hackity hack this is what i use:laughing: But i dont use emt often in residential. Only in the basement i do and when i do i buy these.


Ha, I've used those before but they cost more than a stick of conduit itself!


----------



## pawirenut

Conduit Phil said:


> Ha, I've used those before but they cost more than a stick of conduit itself!


 
I know i only use them if im running washer and dry receps down a wall from the joists in a basement.


----------



## Magnettica

Nothing wrong with using those box offset connectors.


----------



## MDShunk

Magnettica said:


> Nothing wrong with using those box offset connectors.


Other than it's hack, and you used a 2-dollar fitting where you could have made a bend in 30-seconds for free.


----------



## raider1

MDShunk said:


> Other than it's hack, and you used a 2-dollar fitting where you could have made a bend in 30-seconds for free.


Agreed, a box offset is not rocket science and takes very little time to bend.

Chris


----------



## pawirenut

MDShunk said:


> Other than it's hack, and you used a 2-dollar fitting where you could have made a bend in 30-seconds for free.


 
Most certainly nothing hack about it. Please explain why exactly it's a hack way? Now if i used 100 of them that is definitley a hack but the most i use is 2 for a washer and dryer recep like i said. If i'm mounting a lot of boxes i will bend them.


----------



## jwjrw

I was taught fist bend at 2 1/2 second at 5 inches but now I just eyeball it. Never used the offset tool but I think I want one.


----------



## Loose Neutral

pawirenut said:


> Hackity hack this is what i use:laughing: But i dont use emt often in residential. Only in the basement i do and when i do i buy these.



If you have to use these, you shouldn't even be handling pipe.


----------



## MDShunk

pawirenut said:


> Most certainly nothing hack about it. Please explain why exactly it's a hack way? Now if i used 100 of them that is definitley a hack but the most i use is 2 for a washer and dryer recep like i said. If i'm mounting a lot of boxes i will bend them.


How do you make a million dollars? 

One dollar at a time. Surely you have a 1/2 and 3/4 bender on the truck?


----------



## MDShunk

jwjrw said:


> I was taught fist bend at 2 1/2 second at 5 inches but now I just eyeball it. Never used the offset tool but I think I want one.


I do the first bend with the pipe end even with the hook on the bender, and the next one however far back from that my eyeball tells me to. With the offsetter, I just put the pipe even with the front of the tool.


----------



## Loose Neutral

Usually anything under 2" is by eye.


----------



## jwjrw

MDShunk said:


> I do the first bend with the pipe end even with the hook on the bender, and the next one however far back from that my eyeball tells me to. With the offsetter, I just put the pipe even with the front of the tool.


 
I love watching how different electricians bend conduit. Some with the bender up some on a board some measure some eyeball. No wonder I have problems with multiple bends in a run. I never had the chance to work with any one person that was good long enough to learn all the tricks. Im getting better but everyone has the "right way" to do it.:blink:


----------



## MDShunk

jwjrw said:


> I love watching how different electricians bend conduit. Some with the bender up some on a board some measure some eyeball. No wonder I have problems with multiple bends in a run. I never had the chance to work with any one person that was good long enough to learn all the tricks. Im getting better but everyone has the "right way" to do it.:blink:


I don't know if there is any "right way". There certainly are fast ways and slow ways, though. Hell, you'll see guys bending a 90 in the middle of a piece of pipe and sawing both ends off to make it fit.


----------



## Magnettica

Loose Neutral said:


> If you have to use these, you shouldn't even be handling pipe.


No one has to use those but just because they do doesn't mean they have no business handling conduit.


----------



## jwjrw

MDShunk said:


> I don't know if there is any "right way". There certainly are fast ways and slow ways, though. Hell, you'll see guys bending a 90 in the middle of a piece of pipe and sawing both ends off to make it fit.


 
Hmmm were you watching me yesterday????:whistling2:
Just kidding. Not me but I have seen it done. It's the multiple offsets in a small section that get me. I only have to run conduit on a few jobs every month or so. We do alot of mc and romex.


----------



## Magnettica

No doubt that bending conduit take quite a bit of practice to get good at.


----------



## Loose Neutral

Magnettica said:


> No one has to use those but just because they do doesn't mean they have no business handling conduit.



I think if you are using one, that means you have to.


----------



## NolaTigaBait

Loose Neutral said:


> I think if you are using one, that means you have to.


I don't see the appeal of them either. A box offset is simple enough.220 doesn;t bend a box offset.


----------



## Loose Neutral

I don't know whats worse no box offset or an open or closed box offset.


----------



## sparks134

Did I hear someone say conduit?:laughing::laughing:

I never used one of those do hickeys! I believe you get your ass kicked, if you use that!


----------



## Magnettica

Loose Neutral said:


> I think if you are using one, that means you have to.


That might be the case for some people. I know when I used a bunch of them it was for a tight and narrow space where bending a length of of conduit would have added hours of labor time. Instead, the hit was taken on the materials and the job was done quicker so we get to the next one to make more profit.


----------



## Loose Neutral

If it takes hours to bend a piece of conduit then they definitely should not be handling conduit. That contraption would take more space then a smooth box offset anyways. But hey I don't like ericsons either.


----------



## B4T

I put offset box connectors in the same category as blue Carlon boxes from HD.. a homeowner did the work 

Nothing beats an offset mechanical bender for getting the perfect bend every time.

I have both 1/2" and 3/4" and they have paid for themselves many times over.


----------



## sparks134

What do you call that , offset connector. That little do hickey is for the DYI how dosent own a bender.


----------



## B4T

sparks134 said:


> What do you call that , offset connector. That little do hickey is for the DYI how dosent own a bender.


Not true :no:

I can make perfect offset bends in half the time as using a bender :thumbsup:


----------



## jwjrw

Black4Truck said:


> Not true :no:
> 
> I can make perfect offset bends in half the time as using a bender :thumbsup:


I dont even own one (yet) but I can see it would be much quicker to make offsets with it.


----------



## sparks134

Black4Truck said:


> Not true :no:
> 
> I can make perfect offset bends in half the time as using a bender :thumbsup:


I was talking about the offset connectors.


----------



## B4T

jwjrw said:


> I dont even own one (yet) but I can see it would be much quicker to make offsets with it.


Once you try it on a commercial job, you will never want to bend an offset the old fashioned way again. :thumbup:

If you have a run of (10) 1900 boxes on a wall for outlets, having an offset bender will cut the time almost in half running pipe between the boxes.


----------



## B4T

sparks134 said:


> I was talking about the offset connectors.


 
:thumbsup:


----------



## Loose Neutral

It's a little faster, but then you have to drag that thing around with you. In 15 years I've only seen one on a job.


----------



## Forgery

We call box offsets "Boxsets" and we call that little device to make them "Kickers". 

A kicker is great when making many boxsets, but it's heavy and a pain to take with you when you're only doing a couple. 

I honestly can't believe that an electrician would spend $3+ on that offset connector instead of just bending the boxset by hand. It's SO easy to do.

As for how to do it, my method for 1/2" or 3/4" is simple:

I put the pipe in so the end is sticking out of the shoe 1".
I bend the pipe until I feel it bend, the slightest bend is all you need.
I spin the pipe 180 degrees and push it out so that the slight bend I just made is sticking 1" out of the shoe.
I bend it, again I only bend it until I feel it actually bend slightly.

This always makes the proper height and they are always uniform.


----------



## electricalperson

Conduit Phil said:


> What is the proper way to bend a box offset in conduit? I've read that its roughly two 10 degree bends, but what is the spacing between bends? I usually just sort of eye ball it and tweak it until its right but I'd like to be more accurate and consistent.
> 
> Thanks


put the tubing flush with the front of the emt bender. bend slightly (10 degrees or so) when the first bend is done put the first bend just outside the front of the bender and bend again in the opposite direction.


----------



## Loose Neutral

Black4Truck said:


> Once you try it on a commercial job, you will never want to bend an offset the old fashioned way again. :thumbup:
> 
> If you have a run of (10) 1900 boxes on a wall for outlets, having an offset bender will cut the time almost in half running pipe between the boxes.



That's a little exaggerated. It doesn't take that long to bend an offset.


----------



## B4T

Loose Neutral said:


> It's a little faster, but then you have to drag that thing around with you. In 15 years I've only seen one on a job.


I have both benders bolted to a piece of 24" 2X6 wood and a door handle in the middle to carry it around.


----------



## B4T

Loose Neutral said:


> That's a little exaggerated. It doesn't take that long to bend an offset.


Yes it does if they are all suppose to be carbon copies of each other


----------



## Lz_69

Loose Neutral said:


> That's a little exaggerated. It doesn't take that long to bend an offset.


Yeah, I usually find it faster without and it's one less heavy object to drag around with you all day long...


----------



## Loose Neutral

Black4Truck said:


> Yes it does if they are all suppose to be carbon copies of each other



Stop it. Usually with the offset so small and eyeballing the bends are pretty consistent. I'm not saying it's not faster cause it's only one motion versus two, but it ain't cutting no pipe run in half. Like your idea of the 2 * 6 though.


----------



## Forgery

Black4Truck said:


> Yes it does if they are all suppose to be carbon copies of each other


They only have to be that perfect when entering the same side of the same box.


----------



## MDShunk

Loose Neutral said:


> Stop it. Usually with the offset so small and eyeballing the bends are pretty consistent. I'm not saying it's not faster cause it's only one motion versus two, but it ain't cutting no pipe run in half. Like your idea of the 2 * 6 though.


I have both the offsetters, but I only use them when I have a good many offsets to bend in a given day. They save a little time, but they also save a little effort. Every little bit helps.

PLUS.... it's a gadget. Guys are supposed to like gadgets. I know I do. :thumbsup:

As far as it being too heavy to carry around all day... well, I agree. I would not recommend anyone carry an offsetter around all day. Matter of fact, I can't think of why you'd even want to do that. Leave it in your lift or on your tea cart.


----------



## B4T

I have the pipe for the (10) outlets cut to size. I bend the offsets for all one side.. move the bender and make offsets on the other end.

Try it and get back to me


----------



## jwjrw

MDShunk said:


> I have both the offsetters, but I only use them when I have a good many offsets to bend in a given day. They save a little time, but they also save a little effort. Every little bit helps.
> 
> PLUS.... it's a gadget. Guys are supposed to like gadgets. I know I do. :thumbsup:
> 
> As far as it being too heavy to carry around all day... well, I agree. I would not recommend anyone carry an offsetter around all day. Matter of fact, I can't think of why you'd even want to do that. Leave it in your lift or on your tea cart.


 
Yea the older I get anything that makes my job easier Im all for it!:thumbup:


----------



## Loose Neutral

MDShunk said:


> I have both the offsetters, but I only use them when I have a good many offsets to bend in a given day. They save a little time, but they also save a little effort. Every little bit helps.
> 
> PLUS.... it's a gadget. Guys are supposed to like gadgets. I know I do. :thumbsup:
> 
> As far as it being too heavy to carry around all day... well, I agree. I would not recommend anyone carry an offsetter around all day. Matter of fact, I can't think of why you'd even want to do that. Leave it in your lift or on your tea cart.



Don't start attacking my rubbermaid cart. I love that thing and will fight till the death for it.


----------



## Loose Neutral

Black4Truck said:


> I have the pipe for the (10) outlets cut to size. I bend the offsets for all one side.. move the bender and make offsets on the other end.
> 
> Try it and get back to me



Only seen it one time cause of repetitive bends, but usually the job is way to custom.


----------



## Magnettica

While you guys are carrying the bender around all day I have a few fittings and I get a longer lunch break. :thumbsup:


----------



## MDShunk

Loose Neutral said:


> Don't start attacking my rubbermaid cart. I love that thing and will fight till the death for it.


Yeah, I've seen quite a few pimped-out tea carts and stock picking carts. Some guys use shopping carts.


----------



## Forgery

Black4Truck said:


> I have the pipe for the (10) outlets cut to size. I bend the offsets for all one side.. move the bender and make offsets on the other end.
> 
> Try it and get back to me


In that situation you would definitely save a lot of time. I piped receptacles around a high school gym once, one every 20'. Your method would have made a big difference. I'm not sure about cutting the time in half because most of the time was eaten up hammer drilling and dealing with blues&screws. But it would have been a significant difference.


----------



## Loose Neutral

Magnettica said:


> While you guys are carrying the bender around all day I have a few fittings and I get a longer lunch break. :thumbsup:



Stop!!


----------



## Loose Neutral

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, I've seen quite a few pimped-out tea carts and stock picking carts. Some guys use shopping carts.



I want to pimp my ride, but I know someone will be jealous and do it harm.


----------



## Magnettica

To be honest, I don't use them anymore but I do have a few of them leftover from like 10 years ago. They're in with all my other 1/2" conduit fittings. I should use them up though to better gas mileage in the van.


----------



## MDShunk

Loose Neutral said:


> Only seen it one time cause of repetitive bends, but usually the job is way to custom.


I keep mine within reach, inside the back doors of the truck. If I'm on a service call, and need to sleeve some NM coming down a wall, I can cut off a hunk of EMT, crank an offset in it with the offsetter right quick, and be back in the house. That's really the only time I use it for one bend. My EMT benders aren't as easy to get to as the offsetters. 

I sure don't hold it against a guy who doesn't want to use an offsetter. All I can say is that I've found them to be useful, from time to time. Useful enough to own them.


----------



## Loose Neutral

I'd like to see a pic of the side of your van. That would be a good thread. Men and their vans.


----------



## Forgery

Like with everything else, the exact situation makes a difference here.

If you're a 1 man shop that doesn't do more than 30-50' of pipe at a time, then it might not make sense for you to buy this $300 tool. If you're a larger contractor who is going to put many men on a construction site with a lot of exposed pipe, you'd be crazy not to put a kicker in the gangbox for them to use.


----------



## MDShunk

Loose Neutral said:


> I'd like to see a pic of the side of your van. That would be a good thread. Men and their vans.


It's not really in the "van" category. More like a rolling supply house. It's a Step-Van, like a UPS truck or a bread truck.


----------



## MDShunk

Magnettica said:


> To be honest, I don't use them anymore but I do have a few of them leftover from like 10 years ago. They're in with all my other 1/2" conduit fittings. I should use them up though to better gas mileage in the van.


I'm not even sure where I'd buy them if I wanted them. I've seen them different places, installed, but I've never noticed them for sale.


----------



## Magnettica

I have a need for 1/2" and 3/4" from time to time. 

I have a 1/2" shoe and a 3/4" shoe. 

No need for anything else for the work that I do.


----------



## MDShunk

Forgery said:


> If you're a larger contractor who is going to put many men on a construction site with a lot of exposed pipe, you'd be crazy not to put a kicker in the gangbox for them to use.


Then, you get the guy like I had, that would occasionally crank 3 offsets in a row to get a larger offset. Ronnie, you know who you are. Lazy bastard :laughing::laughing:


----------



## B4T

MDShunk said:


> Then, you get the guy like I had, that would occasionally crank 3 offsets in a row to get a larger offset. Ronnie, you know who you are. Lazy bastard :laughing::laughing:


:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Rudeboy

I guess I'll chime in.

Never used an offset connector. Never even made the connection that they existed. Don't really think it's hack but it seems like it might be a pita when pulling or pushing wire to your boxes.

I have a 1/2 little kicker but i hardly ever use it. The guy who drove my van before me must have bought it cause it was in there when I started driving it. I'd probably use it more if it was 3/4" and I had a lot of offsets to do.


----------



## kbe

So nobody uses clamp backs anymore? No offset needed. Pretty cheap and saves on labor.


----------



## Forgery

kbe said:


> So nobody uses clamp backs anymore? No offset needed. Pretty cheap and saves on labor.


Hmmmm, clamp backs? 

Are you talking about a cowboy like picture below?

Or one of those plates that you insert under a 1-hole strap for piping rigid?


----------



## Lone Crapshooter

Back straps OK on rigid not on EMT. I also see on prefab switchgear buildings Minneralac straps used on EMT. it saves on box offsets but it is not good workmanship epically on switches and receptacles.
LC
Listen Think Solve

That is a Minneralcac strap


----------



## 10492

If you bend enough pipe, try this.

Put the pipe in the bender, with about a 1" or so out of the toe, and press down a couple degrees.

Spin the pipe over, and slide the pipe down , the length of your thumb finger, and press down the same amount you pressed the first bend you did.

Measure the offset to see if it fits.

If you adjust the presssure you put on the pipe while bending, and keep the distance of your thumb consistent, you can soon find the right amount of bend to put on the pipe to make offsets.

Once you do this a bunch of times, you'll get the hang of the pressure needed in no time.


----------



## mattsilkwood

I always put the end of the pipe flush with the end of the shoe, bend not quite 10 deg, then put the first bend just past the end of the shoe. Comes out perfect every time. The only thing I can see a kicker would solve is the fact that not everyone makes offsets exactly the same. 
If you had several guys working the same area it might be alright.

I hate using minnies, they look like ass imo, but wind up using alot of them. If that's what the man than signs the checks wants to use that's what gets used.


----------



## Forgery

mattsilkwood said:


> I always put the end of the pipe flush with the end of the shoe


Sometimes the end of the pipe gets egged when you put it flush with the end of the shoe.


----------



## MDShunk

Forgery said:


> Sometimes the end of the pipe gets egged when you put it flush with the end of the shoe.


Might be your bender. Or, where you buy pipe. Can't say that I've ever really had that problem. I have had that problem in larger sizes, when bending too close to the end.


----------



## Forgery

MDShunk said:


> Might be your bender. Or, where you buy pipe. Can't say that I've ever really had that problem. I have had that problem in larger sizes, when bending too close to the end.


Could be. Pipe is always Wheatland but the benders are usually unknown. I noticed it happen a couple times so I always start with the pipe 1" from the end of the shoe. Old habit I guess.


----------



## 10492

Forgery said:


> Sometimes the end of the pipe gets egged when you put it flush with the end of the shoe.


 
Yeah, that's why I slide it out an inch or so to start. When the end gets egged, connectors have to be tapped on with linesmans and can't be spun easily.


----------



## mattsilkwood

Forgery said:


> Sometimes the end of the pipe gets egged when you put it flush with the end of the shoe.


 I've never had a problem with box offsets doing that. Bigger offsets or 90s will and for those I start at 1", but with a box offset you are bending it so little that it doesn't really have a chance to egg.


----------



## Forgery

mattsilkwood said:


> I've never had a problem with box offsets doing that. Bigger offsets or 90s will and for those I start at 1", but with a box offset you are bending it so little that it doesn't really have a chance to egg.


Yeah, I probably egged the pipe trying to bend a short 90 and then started keeping it a minimum of 1" from the shoe for any bend from then on.


----------



## Buddha In Babylon

My pipe-sensei taught me that before you even make your first bend on a box offset, you should try to feel the floor through the handle of the bender. Making your first bend, you can feel the shoe make contact with the floor, and that is how you know you've bent enough for the first bend. Spin the pipe 180 and slide it forward about two inches or so, and the bend will be touching the floor at an angle, the Second bend raises the mouth of the pipe off the floor...bend until the offset is approx, 3/4 of an inch off the floor. That's how i was taught on 3/4 EMT.
I've seen those offset benders on big ass jobs but like everyone else says, just a big hunk of metal to carry for a smaller assignment...no thanks.


----------



## mattsilkwood

Forgery said:


> Could be. Pipe is always Wheatland but the benders are usually unknown. I noticed it happen a couple times so I always start with the pipe 1" from the end of the shoe. Old habit I guess.


 Kinda off subject but last year I was getting alot of bad wheatland pipe. I don't know if it was a regional thing or what but it would crinkle, it was hard to pull through, I even had some split.


----------



## Forgery

BinB, I've always bent boxsets in the air with the end of the bender on the floor.


----------



## Rudeboy

Forgery said:


> BinB, I've always bent boxsets in the air with the end of the bender on the floor.


x2.
:thumbsup:


----------



## mattsilkwood

Forgery said:


> BinB, I've always bent boxsets in the air with the end of the bender on the floor.


Me too. You would have to bend off a ledge for it to work right.


----------



## nitro71

Yeh.. Anyways if you have a bunch of exposed offsets to do make make one with some guestimated measurements. Like 5" between bends or whatever. Mark that and bend all your offsets with that distance. They'll all look the same.


----------



## pudge565

From the book that then new students in our tech shop have to have it says to mark at 2" and 8" and make around 5* bends. I have found that on a Greenlee bender 5*is about at the star mark.


----------



## Magnettica

I just use a gas pipe and wedge it between the pipe and a ceiling joist for my offsets.


----------



## user4818

Anyone who would use a pre-made offset fitting is a hack, plain and simple. Trust me, I would know. :icon_rolleyes:


----------



## Rudeboy

Peter D said:


> Anyone who would use a pre-made offset fitting is a hack, plain and simple. Trust me, I would know. :icon_rolleyes:


Don't get me wrong, I've never even held one in my hand, but why is it so hack?


----------



## B4T

Peter D said:


> Anyone who would use a pre-made offset fitting is a hack, plain and simple. Trust me, I would know. :icon_rolleyes:


I agree.. but you forgot the blue Carlon box that makes it a perfect pair :thumbsup:


----------



## Forgery

Black4Truck said:


> I agree.. but you forgot the blue Carlon box that makes it a perfect pair :thumbsup:


What's with the hate for blue Carlon boxes? They cost $0.21, they work as well as any other box, and they are widely available just about everywhere.


----------



## B4T

Forgery said:


> What's with the hate for blue Carlon boxes? They cost $0.21, they work as well as any other box, and they are widely available just about everywhere.


They are also the brand that HO buys and the HI hacks that are running wires all wrong across the country


----------



## Rudeboy

Forgery said:


> What's with the hate for blue Carlon boxes? They cost $0.21, they work as well as any other box, and they are widely available just about everywhere.


The regular nailons are okay in my opinion, but I hate their adjustable boxes. Big design flaw with those suckers.


----------



## Forgery

Rudeboy said:


> The regular nailons are okay in my opinion, but I hate their adjustable boxes. Big design flaw with those suckers.


I actually never had a problem with the adjustable, but I prefer using a Smart Box where I might need adjustment. And if it's a job that's not getting an inspection, I turn a 21 cent blue Carlon box into a Smart box :whistling2:


----------



## Rudeboy

Are you admitting on the holy grail of electrical websites that you puncture wholes in plastic boxes?:laughing:

yeah that works. 

Try the arlington adjustable boxes, they're really nice and you can install a diva dimmer flush and level without obscenity.


----------



## B4T

Rudeboy said:


> Are you admitting on the holy grail of electrical websites that you puncture wholes in plastic boxes?:laughing:


I do the same thing.. I guess I'm not a Boy Scout


----------



## Rudeboy

Black4Truck said:


> I do the same thing.. I guess I'm not a Boy Scout


Don't sweat it. Everyone does or has done it at some time or another. If they say they don't or haven't they liars.


----------



## 480sparky

Black4Truck said:


> They are also the brand that HO buys and the HI hacks that are running wires all wrong across the country


 
So let's summarily brand anything a HO buys as trash?


----------



## Mike_586

For box offsets, I eye it up.

For larger offsets, I'll either use a no dog or a 4x4 with a connector on the end of the pipe to keep my bends in line. I almost never have to tweak a dog out of my bends when I do that. If its going to be a pipe that's getting maxed out on wire fill and it'll look good or its in a ceiling, I prefer to use 22-1/2Deg bends or even less if possible, anything to make the wire pull easier. Normally I just go 30Deg because its a pretty mindless offset to make.

If I'm working alone and I'm going to be pulling wire in the same day, I sometimes squirt a little bit of lube into the pipe at the bends to make the pull go easier. When you're working on your own a lot you have to come up with little tricks to make what's normally a two man job easier


----------



## B4T

480sparky said:


> So let's summarily brand anything a HO buys as trash?


 
No.. it is just a sure sign things are a lot worse than expected


----------



## crazymurph

Peter D said:


> Anyone who would use a pre-made offset fitting is a hack, plain and simple. Trust me, I would know. :icon_rolleyes:


 I would'nt call them Hack. They are semi-professional. Hack would be warping the conduit into the fitting with no box offset. The offset fitting has its use, just like any other listed material.


----------



## pawirenut

Damn I'm short on skotchkote, blue carlons, emt offset connectors, and frost king black tape i need to hit up harbour freight too!


























eerrrrrrrrrrr not!:no:


----------



## B4T

crazymurph said:


> I would'nt call them Hack. They are semi-professional. Hack would be warping the conduit into the fitting with no box offset. The offset fitting has its use, just like any other listed material.


It just reeks of something the ACE Hardware guy would give a HO


----------



## geo5509

Black4Truck said:


> It just reeks of something the ACE Hardware guy would give a HO


 I guess I need to get rid of the the Klein and Greenlee tools I bought from HD and lowes then. lol
I'm not necessarily new to this site. I have been lurking around for a long time. I reconize a few of you from another popular Electrical Fourm.


----------



## 480sparky

Black4Truck said:


> No.. it is just a sure sign things are a lot worse than expected


 
OK, so someone uses Klien linesmans, Ideal t-strippers, a Craftsman hammer, and Southwire NM (stapled down with an Arrow t-75 stapler).

Are they a hack now?


----------



## Forgery

480sparky said:


> (stapled down with an Arrow t-75 stapler).


Does that work well?? I've been meaning to get some type of Romex staple gun.


----------



## B4T

480sparky said:


> OK, so someone uses Klien linesmans, Ideal t-strippers, a Craftsman hammer, and Southwire NM (stapled down with an Arrow t-75 stapler).
> 
> Are they a hack now?


I am talking about the color of a nailon and a box connector.. you sould like LGLS mixing apples and oranges :no:


----------



## 480sparky

Forgery said:


> Does that work well?? I've been meaning to get some type of Romex staple gun.


 
Like a charm. By the time most people pull out a hammer and a staple and line them up, I'm done.

You just need to use special staples.


----------



## crazymurph

Black4Truck said:


> It just reeks of something the ACE Hardware guy would give a HO


 Exactly. The HO does not have a bender or the skill to use it. He is the same guy who buys the 1/2" EMT 90's.


----------



## 480sparky

Black4Truck said:


> I am talking about the color of a nailon and a box connector.. you sould like LGLS mixing apples and oranges :no:


I don't understand.

Carlon Blue = hack.

Why?

Just because HD sell 'em?

So if HD sold Fords, you'd say Ford is for hacks? Or if the sold Ferraris, then Ferraris are for hacks?

And where did box connectors get added to the discussion?


----------



## B4T

480sparky said:


> And where did box connectors get added to the discussion?


Post #22


----------



## frenchelectrican

For the smaller conducts I just eyeball it and more than half of the time I don't do it on the floor I do it on the " fly " I know I will get ear full on this one but as I say the first couple time it will be little hard but once you get used to it it become a brezze with it.

Due couple situation I have to make a offset kick on the spot escpally if I am on the lift anything over 5 meters up in the air you can see why.

Merci,Marc


----------



## crazymurph

Black4Truck said:


> Post #22


 Post 256 Canandaigua NY


----------



## 480sparky

Black4Truck said:


> Post #22


 
That got thrown out with yesterdays' news.


----------



## Forgery

480sparky said:


> Like a charm. By the time most people pull out a hammer and a staple and line them up, I'm done.
> 
> You just need to use special staples.


You use that to rough in a whole house?

Any issues with inspectors?


----------



## 480sparky

Forgery said:


> You use that to rough in a whole house?.........


Yep. A stapler won't work in every situation, however. The staples are only rated for so many cables, so in some cases you may need to use the old-fashioned nail-ins or stack staples. But it works for probably 80% of a house, at least the way I wire them.

On the flip side, there are places I can use the stapler that would be difficult, if not impossible, to use a regular staple. 



Forgery said:


> .....Any issues with inspectors?


Some have never seen the staples and call me on it, saying they're not rated for the use. So I keep the package the stapler came in, as well as an empty staple box, handy. Once they see both, and that they are listed for the use, all is well.


----------



## Forgery

Great, thanks. I see a package deal on Amazon for a great price, it comes with both 5/8" and 7/8" staples for under $50. :thumbsup:


----------



## B4T

Forgery said:


> Great, thanks. I see a package deal on Amazon for a great price, it comes with both 5/8" and 7/8" staples for under $50. :thumbsup:


 
Just go back to HD and maybe one has 50% off 

Peter D never bought anything off Amazon.. nice try at deception :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky

Forgery said:


> Great, thanks. I see a package deal on Amazon for a great price, it comes with both 5/8" and 7/8" staples for under $50. :thumbsup:


Are they the right staples, though? You need Arrow staples made for NM.


----------



## Forgery

480sparky said:


> Are they the right staples, though? You need Arrow staples made for NM.
> 
> [IM]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Tools/7910ST75.jpg[/IMG]​


The description:

_Arrow's 5/8-inch T75 Staples are UL and c-UL listed. These staples have a leg length of 5/8-inches and fit the T75 wire and cable staple gun._

It doesn't mention being specifically for NM, but the picture is the same as the one you posted.


----------



## Forgery

Black4Truck said:


> Just go back to HD and maybe one has 50% off
> 
> Peter D never bought anything off Amazon.. nice try at deception :laughing:


I desperately wish there was an UnThank option here...


----------



## 480sparky

Black4Truck said:


> Just go back to HD and maybe one has 50% off ....


HD doesn't carry them.







None of the big boxes carry anything larger than the T50. Online is the only place I've been able to find the stapler. One store here, however, does carry the staples.


----------



## sparks134

Peter D said:


> Anyone who would use a pre-made offset fitting is a hack, plain and simple. Trust me, I would know. :icon_rolleyes:


 He's Backkkkkkkk!


----------



## B4T

Forgery said:


> I desperately wish there was an UnThank option here...


 

:sleep1:


----------



## Forgery

Black4Truck said:


> :sleep1:


:furious:


----------



## Magnettica

What about prefab PVC offset male adapters? 

Hack?


----------



## Forgery

Magnettica said:


> What about prefab PVC offset male adapters?
> 
> Hack?


PVC is different. Just like the way a hack buys EMT 90's but it's normal to buy PVC 90's.


----------



## Magnettica

I agree.


----------



## Conduit Phil

A box offset connector is perfect for the DIY hack that buys EMT in the convenient little 5 ft sections at Lowes so he can fit them in the back seat of his car to get them home to link them together to pull Romex into.


----------



## RIVETER

Conduit Phil said:


> A box offset connector is perfect for the DIY hack that buys EMT in the convenient little 5 ft sections at Lowes so he can fit them in the back seat of his car to get them home to link them together to pull Romex into.


I'm not a HACK if I let 5' stick out the window???


----------



## jw0445

RIVETER said:


> I'm not a HACK if I let 5' stick out the window???


 Or just strap it to the side of your bike........


----------



## Innovative

Wow, electricians actually buy those emt offset things..... when we see a job with them, it usually has romex in the emt and has homeowner or handyman written all over it. I think the only thing worse is the HD blue Carlon boxes.......

VEGAS BOUND....... sitting on plane @Tampa International


----------



## B4T

Forgery said:


> PVC is different. Just like the way a hack buys EMT 90's but it's normal to buy PVC 90's.


I agree :thumbsup:


----------



## 220/221

Just run the conduit into the box. 


What is it, like 3/8 of an inch?

Nobody except an electrician will _ever_ notice.


Crap....we have moved on to staples.


Staples are overrated too.


----------



## user4818

220/221 said:


> Just run the conduit into the box.
> 
> 
> What is it, like 3/8 of an inch?
> 
> Nobody except an electrician will _ever_ notice.


I admit I've done that a few times on really low budget jobs, and also when it's up high on the ceiling (retail) where nobody in the world will ever notice it's there. 

But, for everything else I use the "Lil Kicker" from Greenlee.


----------



## sparks134

220/221 said:


> just run the conduit into the box.
> 
> 
> What is it, like 3/8 of an inch?
> 
> Nobody except an electrician will _ever_ notice.
> 
> 
> Crap....we have moved on to staples.
> 
> 
> Staples are overrated too.


 hack!


----------



## sparks134

Where does one buy an offset kicker bender?


----------



## Forgery

sparks134 said:


> Where does one buy an offset kicker bender?


http://www.amazon.com/Current-Tools...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1268177639&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Current-Tools...ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1268177665&sr=8-5

Greenlee makes them too:

http://www.all-spec.com/products/G1810.html?utm_source=amazonshopping&utm_medium=feed

http://www.all-spec.com/products/1811.html?utm_source=amazonshopping&utm_medium=feed


----------



## 220/221

> Where does one buy an offset kicker bender?


 
I will sell you one of mine.

Never used!!


----------



## 480sparky

I got my ½" offset bender at an auction. No one else knew what it was. I paid five bucks for it.


----------



## sparks134

480sparky said:


> I got my ½" offset bender at an auction. No one else knew what it was. I paid five bucks for it.


 Who wants to sell one to me for five bucks?


----------



## NolaTigaBait

sparks134 said:


> Who wants to sell one to me for five bucks?


5 bucks!!!!!!!!


----------



## 480sparky

sparks134 said:


> who wants to sell one to me for five bucks?


 
220/221.


----------



## Control Freak

Loose Neutral said:


> If it takes hours to bend a piece of conduit then they definitely should not be handling conduit. That contraption would take more space then a smooth box offset anyways. But hey I don't like ericsons either.


 
I hate them too except for in a real jam. Some guys seem to think they are needed every length. I guess some guys just cant handle running gal. Sometimes you have to put things up two lengths at a time or with a condulet or box on them already cause you would never be able to spin it on. A good mechanic should know how the pipe shrinks when bends are added and be able to adjust accordingly..............

and forget about what an erickson costs for 2 " and up!

gal can't be fudged like emt (bent and then cut to fit, and then take it down again and cut and put it back in) That becomes very time consuming when you have to cut and thread all over again.

Personally I would choose to run gal over emt if it was up to me.........more fun!


----------



## Magnettica

Whoever mentioned the "egging effect" of box offset's when started at the end of the conduit was right. I'd never noticed that before. Today I started the box offset a few inches up the length and it even looks much nicer. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## RyanB

conduit phil said:


> what is the proper way to bend a box offset in conduit? I've read that its roughly two 10 degree bends, but what is the spacing between bends?


2 3/4"


----------



## CEC_king

When I surface run rigid conduit (I think it is what you called gal) I do not even do box offsets, when i can get away from it. if you mount your conduit on deep strut and box on shallow with washers or spacers the conduit goes right into the box perfectly. Beauty she is!

As for this kicker bender thing, we need some of these in Canada!


----------



## lewis hinkle

*Little Kicker by Greenlee*



jw0445 said:


> If your going to do this on a regular basis or over many years buy yourself both 1/2" and a 3/4" offset benders. They will pay for themselves many times over. You put your conduit in the bender, press the lever down, and presto, perfect offsets every time. They run from $200 to $300 each new. Check ebay for some deals.


It is easier to bend box offset in the air since most benders have a 10 degree
mark.
Greenlees sells a 9/16 little kicker -but was unable to tell me the angle or
distance between bends. But I knew the height of hole- 9/16".
So I bent a piece of conduit and measured -it is 10 degrees then I computed
the distance between bends using master bender =3 1/4" with the first mark
back from end-of-conduit 3 5/8" This will work with conduit sizes 1/2 to 1 1/4" EMT. Others I am told have used 15 degrees but there is no mark on conduit bender as such- unless you have an inclinometer . So its easier
to do the bend by hand and with less money. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## lewis hinkle

*forgoy to say*



lewis hinkle said:


> It is easier to bend box offset in the air since most benders have a 10 degree
> mark.
> Greenlees sells a 9/16 little kicker -but was unable to tell me the angle or
> distance between bends. But I knew the height of hole- 9/16".
> So I bent a piece of conduit and measured -it is 10 degrees then I computed
> the distance between bends using master bender =3 1/4" with the first mark
> back from end-of-conduit 3 5/8" This will work with conduit sizes 1/2 to 1 1/4" EMT. Others I am told have used 15 degrees but there is no mark on conduit bender as such- unless you have an inclinometer . So its easier
> to do the bend by hand and with less money. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


I believe they dont make a 1 or 1/14 kicker-too hard to press for reason.
So you end end up with 2 kickers not 4-you still have to do the others
by hand unless you have offset nipples. So its easier to do all by hand for 1/2' 3/4' 1' and 1/1/4" and save your money.:thumbup:


----------



## lewis hinkle

*forgot to say*



lewis hinkle said:


> It is easier to bend box offset in the air since most benders have a 10 degree
> mark.
> Greenlees sells a 9/16 little kicker -but was unable to tell me the angle or
> distance between bends. But I knew the height of hole- 9/16".
> So I bent a piece of conduit and measured -it is 10 degrees then I computed
> the distance between bends using master bender =3 1/4" with the first mark
> back from end-of-conduit 3 5/8" This will work with conduit sizes 1/2 to 1 1/4" EMT. Others I am told have used 15 degrees but there is no mark on conduit bender as such- unless you have an inclinometer . So its easier
> to do the bend by hand and with less money. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


I believe they dont make a 1 or 1/14 kicker-too hard to press for reason.
So you end end up with 2 kickers not 4-you still have to do the others
by hand unless you have offset nipples. So its easier to do all by hand for 1/2' 3/4' 1' and 1/1/4" and save your money.:thumbup:


----------



## Ralphm

Here, a gift. It looks easy because it is easy. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nXTSj7cGRk


----------



## 220/221

The best way is not to bend box offsets.

If you must, bend it a little, flip it over and bend it the other way :thumbsup:


Oh yeah,...Opposite way first.


----------



## Going_Commando

220/221 said:


> The best way is not to bend box offsets.
> 
> If you must, bend it a little, flip it over and bend it the other way :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> _*Oh yeah,...Opposite way first.*_


It took a few pieces of pipe for me to figure that part out. Was really screwing with my noggin until it clicked. Then again, I was taught to bend pipe by being pitched a bender, a bundle of conduit, a project, and told "figure it out".


----------



## 220/221

DAMMIT. I got sucked into *another* 2 year old thread.

Damn you Lewis Hinkle!


----------



## B4T

I don't bend that much pipe.. so the box offset bender is my best friend... :thumbsup:


----------



## 360max

yea but whats the formula for the compound 90 (two 45 degree bends to equal a 90)?


----------

