# Sanity check--controls salary?



## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

I've been in I&C for about 4 years now. I really enjoy learning how everything works and automation is a great sector for that... very broad field where you can always learn something new and lots of opportunities to apply that learning.

Everything that I've heard from everyone from acquaintances to people on this forum suggests that it's highly compensated occupation, you "write your own paycheck", etc. Honestly, I'm really passionate about it and I wouldn't change any of my decisions to get into it if it wasn't, but it's a very difficult career to get into and my wife is ever skeptical about the long term financial boons that I so often hear of. It's hard to say that it won't be an issue when I google the average salary and find everything saying $30 CAD an hour and other abysmally low valuations for what is supposedly a rare, highly paid skill set. It seems especially odd considering that I already make more than that, although that's easy to dismiss because the industry I work in (O&G) pays a decent amount above average.

I strongly suspect that, being a niche occupation, the reported values are wildly inaccurate... however, I am the type to readily be proven wrong and learn better, so give it to me straight--am I taking crazy pills? Thanks for any input or observations offered... this has been a great community to be a part of and contribute to and I'd love to hear what you think.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I agree with you. Its not uncommon to see guys bending pipe and pulling wire make what you make and sometimes more.
Here in this state a maintenance electrician working in the controls field is required to know so much more, but the facilities do not pay more. And of course as soon as they find out you can do other things well, those become part of your job.

It used to piss me off to see a guy running for parts all day make the same money I made because he got into the maintenance dept. Good for him though. Not so much for the others.

I cannot tell you how many times I have asked about this, bitched about this and quit over this to be told that I do not directly make the product and that me and my counterparts are here because we have to be here.
They would be very happy to never ever need anyone like you or me. But they are forced if they want to run 24-7-365.

You are worth more than what you make and I don't even know what you make. I know this because I did and you do the same work. Underpaid and in many cases underappreciated.
This is why I rarely worked for one outfit more than 5 years. It was economically advantageous to move on for more money even if it was not a whole lot. 

I am not sure this is completely a regional thing or not. But I can tell you wages in this part of the country are just like our schools. At the very bottom.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Just be aware however that "controls" in job searches will be overwhelmed by search results for HVAC controls positions, which don't pay well. Now I don't think you can "write your own paycheck" either, unless as an independent contractor ("Gig worker"), but that has a different set of economic challenges. People around here (California) with decent INDUSTRIAL controls skills / PLC programming, application engineering capabilities etc. can command from $80-100k US fairly consistently as an employee.


However the average income needed to afford a house in the SF Bay Area is now over $200k... so moving here for the "higher" wages doesn't really work out for a lot of people.



But to the other point, I have two Electrician friends making a lot more than that with OT and extra days.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I've worked for electrical contractors for the last 29 years, I'm almost always the only guy there who does controls. 

By 'does controls', I mean I can design, install, maintain and troubleshoot just about any kind of control system. 

I have never been paid any more than a basic journeyman and often, a dollar or two less than the job guys. 

Some of these contractors need to wake up and realize the value of a control guy. 

One contractor I left a few years ago (mainly because I got tired of being treated like a second-class.......) did a bunch of geothermal power plants. The control drawings were not all that good and once I got to know the owners engineer, I would correct the drawings and give him my as-builts. 

After I left, they did 2 more plants. I heard from one of the test guys that they will not be doing any more of these plants because it takes too long for the start-up team to fix all the control screw-ups. 

This begs the question.....which makes the most sense; shaft a guy out of a few bucks an hour or lose him and also lose your most profitable account? 

It's a shame that a guy who has natural talent and learns controls is usually viewed as less than anyone else.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

This could be a much longer answer, but I have learned two things that would apply here. 

One, pay is all over the place. Some companies pay poorly for what you do, period. Some pay well for what you do. Most pay as little as they think they can pay and get decent people. Some you can only get paid in proportion to what you're worth if you fight tooth and nail. In controls, it's possible to hold some companies over a barrel, but you have to be a shark. 

Two, make it your priority to get yourself with a company that pays well for what you do, even if you don't care much about money. Usually the companies that pay **** are usually also miserable places.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

just a few thoughts (that are entirely my own, maybe)

I have seen a lot of guys over the years take great care of the company they work for, at their own expense. I believe in taking care of the company, but what's fair is fair. In the end, nobody is going to take care of your money like you do, and nobody is going to take care of you like you do, so it is up to you to make sure that you are being compensated to the best of your company's ability. That means, in real terms, that if you aren't looking for a job every couple of years (minimum), just to see what's out there and what you're worth, that you are doing yourself a dis-service. You are the boss of yourself, and you have to treat yourself like you are your own company (whether you have those credentials or not) in order to take the best care of yourself, your income, your career, and your future.

That being said, sometimes taking a small hit in the pay department can bring in more pay later, so it is not out of the realm of possibility that getting additional credentials or experience can help your future.

The forks in the road are what make it an adventure. good luck


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I think the pay varies a lot from company to company, area to area, and type of work performed.

In any company the pay rate depends on the way the owners feel about control work. If it's a company with only one or two guys that can handle any control work they get then expect to get paid a premium, even over scale. If it's a controls company where all the service guys can do the work you could be just a clock number.

Say what you will about DDC HVAC/R control systems but the work is normally very easy an you can work like a gentleman most of the time. You are in a good position to get paid over scale as well. 

In the NYC northern NJ area one can do very well in a company that does DDC, energy management and other building management control systems.

In industry the guys working for pharmaceutical companies never seemed unhappy or underpaid.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

As said if you work for an EC that does controls you can be gold for them and make a little more. 
If you work for a factory it depends on what they make. Example is when I worked for a food and drug company they made $1.00 a bottle profit on cough medicine at 300/min. Good pay was not an issue, nor was money to make improvements. But the soap end of the company made $.05 a bar on soap at 600/min. Good pay and improvement money was not as easy to get.


Bottom line is what do they make. $300/min or $30/min.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

just the cowboy said:


> As said if you work for an EC that does controls you can be gold for them and make a little more.
> If you work for a factory it depends on what they make. Example is when I worked for a food and drug company they made $1.00 a bottle profit on cough medicine at 300/min. Good pay was not an issue, nor was money to make improvements. But the soap end of the company made $.05 a bar on soap at 600/min. Good pay and improvement money was not as easy to get.
> 
> 
> Bottom line is what do they make. $300/min or $30/min.


Company I worked for years ago had a customer that packaged prescription 
drugs. 

They never seemed to have any type budget problem for adding or improving a packaging line or adding environmental equipment of any kind.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

When I left my tools and went to work for a distributor I used my experience to try and help me get new customers and keep customers. 
Many days I was actually helping a customer doing the exact same type work I did before I dropped the tools.

I would find myself explaining, helping and actually fixing things I used to fix for much less money.
Some of these people were pulling in big money for big corporations including automobile manufacturing.
Here I am showing, teaching, helping guys making way more than I did for the same work. The only difference was I knew how to do it. Many of my customers did not.

Working for the distributor was good money, but I worked my way up. Learned all I could and was a pretty good at what I did.
They would call me with questions about the most basic information. Many times I had to go to their place as they could not comprehend some basic stuff.
How these customers (Plant electrical supers and electricians) got and kept these jobs was a mystery.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> When I left my tools and went to work for a distributor I used my experience to try and help me get new customers and keep customers.
> Many days I was actually helping a customer doing the exact same type work I did before I dropped the tools.
> 
> I would find myself explaining, helping and actually fixing things I used to fix for much less money.
> ...


I pondered this question constantly! 

Figured relatives or blackmail or some kind.


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

Thank you everyone for sharing your advice and experience. What I gather is about what I expected but I should temper my expectations knowing there are still bad employers, pay will be affected by things like industry, commercial/industrial, and the capacity of the position, e.g. installation/maintenance/distribution/whatever. I had assumed everyone would be willing to pony up because they have no choice, but it sounds like it's not uncommon for this type of position to be taken for granted regardless of that.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

I worked with a Korean instrumentation tech at the refinery a while back, a real weenie, this guy didn't like anybody, and had no problem telling them. For some unknown reason I got along with him somewhat (oh, joy). We were installing NoX controllers on all the heaters in the place, I think it was like 27 of them. This guy did the programming of the PLC's, and he knew nobody liked him, so for job security he wrote all the notes on the working prints in Korean.


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## RaveOn! (Nov 25, 2011)

I have been at the same job here in Toronto for 25 years. I'm a maintenance Electrician and automation programmer of plc'c, drives and Fanuc robots. We are at $43 per hour. On average we make around 120k to 150k depending on how much O.T. you put in.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

RaveOn! said:


> I have been at the same job here in Toronto for 25 years. I'm a maintenance Electrician and automation programmer of plc'c, drives and Fanuc robots. We are at $43 per hour. On average we make around 120k to 150k depending on how much O.T. you put in.


Those wages are unheard of around here. Welcome to the forum.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

RaveOn! said:


> I have been at the same job here in Toronto for 25 years. I'm a maintenance Electrician and automation programmer of plc'c, drives and Fanuc robots. We are at $43 per hour. On average we make around 120k to 150k depending on how much O.T. you put in.


Union shop?


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## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

$43 CAD is like $32 USD


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

Funny how we're just seeing stuff in the news about the Boeing 737... issue being sensor failure and automatic recovery. It's disappointing that companies won't recognize how critical this stuff can be when operating deadly (and expensive) industrial equipment.


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## iadapt (Oct 10, 2012)

In the northern Indiana area (just south of Michigan) pay can be $80K. 

But in Michigan the home of the automotive and tool and die industry pay can range depending on experience from $25hr to $120k to $150k a year plus per diem.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

When I left to start my own deal, I was making $38/hr, 160/day per diem, full bennies, take home service truck, you name it I had it. In South central Idaho so cost of living is cheap. I think I still have the record there for best job profit company wide and for sure in the industrial controls and construction dept. Took them a long time for them to replace me and it took two guys and a supervisor to do it. 

Either keep searching for a employer that values controls skills or carve out your own niche. I don't get the large glorious controls projects anymore but I do only the project I choose and still make good money.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

Wait a minute ... you guys get paychecks? I'm going to speak with my boss today...


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## timmysparky (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm in the Cincinnati area. 25+ years of industrial electric experience. I'm not a engineer, I'm a maintenance electrician. I don't write the programs for our HMI or PLCs. I do, however, have to go online to help with troubleshooting. Occasionally ,for unknown reasons to me ,we will have to toggle a bit to get the machines running again. My absolute favorite is when we have a battery die on a processor and have to download a backup program to the processor. I also have to install conduit runs for additional equipment and what not,Hang lights, fix burnt out devices and equipment, run CAT5 & 6, service all the electrical equipment on the production machinery, and adjust parameters and settings on the machinery as well. We stay very busy. lol
I usually stay at a company for about 5 years. In this time I learn learn learn and usually become very familiar with the personality of each and every piece of equipment and building system. I then start looking for a better job that pays more. When i find things" better job" and secure a way in the door, I'll go to my current employer and start negotiating. I have yet to have the current employer match or beat the offer from the prospective place. Maybe it's me, more than likely, or maybe they just don't care and only want bodies for coverage. 
The place I'm at now is a union shop, barf, and is by far one of the highest paying factories in this region. I stress one of the highest, not THE highest. All the electricians make the same rate of 30 bucks and some change. Our 80/20 insurance is 100% paid 401k contributions, other small things like uniforms and tools, and a very non typical retirement pension thru out local union. I work every single day and even most holidays. My last day off was Christmas, it's memorial day weekend, which i have to work.
My point to all this is that sometimes that job that looks great on paper is really not that great at all. My hourly wage has cost me more than one could put a number on. This is a great field to be in. Control guys are usually some of the best and brightest and unfortunately these companies know it. The newest trend I'm seeing is the companies want the maintenance technicians to be multi- craft. This is absolutely absurd and I will walk out of a interview on this one. I am expected to go from say welding something, to going Online on a SLC 5/05, and then to a conveyor to replace a bearing or chain. They want all this for usually 23-28$ a hour with a 300$ a month insurance plan I pay for out of pocket and a 2-3% match on 401k. 
I'm not certain the numbers I see here in Cincinnati are accurate for the rest of the nation. I did some contract work in the Orlando Florida area a few years back and the maintenance guys at that factory were at 21$ a hour and were doing the multi craft non sense. 
I love my field and will never work in any other. It's not the most glamorous or best paying, but I've had a pretty good life for the past 25 years and certainly have not gone hungry. Finding that perfect balance of work/life will sometimes cost a couple dollars on the hour, but in my opinion, pay dividends in the long run. 
I'm probably way of topic by now and I'm sure,way over spoken. That's the 411 on what I know about the field here in this part of the country.
Cheers fellas!


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

I live in the middle of no-where and the cost of living is low. I wouldn't consider under 30 a hour. It actually very difficult to find highly skilled people who are willing to live in the middle of no-where. Its also hard to find contractors with the right skill set that are willing to travel so you kinda have the company over the barrel.


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