# working with stone walls



## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Not from the UK but maybe a bit of good ol' American ingenuity will work.

I would use something that hold well in the brick but since it is soft brick, won't break the brick. Maybe something like plastic anchors with screws. When I set the box, I would use mortar (or some other pliable medium that will set hard) behind the box and only tighten the screws to make the box flush with the surface. Use shims to make it plumb and level and then do not touch it until the stuff hardens behind the box.

Obviously you would have to place the box and set it plumb and level and then drill for the plastic anchors, then remove and proceed as directed above.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Find a way to get some anchors in and/or use construction adhesive


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

UK method;

Paint wall with 3:1 water : PVA .let it dry.
Paint with 1;1 " " GO TACKY
Plastering Sand and cement about 4:1 use to level up wall, set box in whilst still wet along with screws and plugs.
Tighten up when set............well it works for me [USA walls may differ:jester:]


You could also use PVA in the mixing water


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Trimix-leccy said:


> UK method;
> 
> Paint wall with 3:1 water : PVA .let it dry.
> Paint with 1;1 " " GO TACKY
> ...


Ok. that really needs some translation but from what I read in there, very similar to my suggestion with the addition of PVA, 1;1, and GO TACKY (is TACKY a football team?. College football is played on Saturdays typically. Thought you might be cheering for your favorite team)

what is PVA and what is the purpose. I presume GO TACKY is meant to mean you procede whilst the application of 1;1 (another explanation please) is still tacky wet.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

im using plastic anchors with screws - they can be pulled out by hand - the ent memory of the coil is not helping matters - but i do like the idea of mortaring the box in and then drilling after hardend - and trimix you gotta translate that for me - sounds like you got a method that has beed tried and proven and possibly can help me out a bunch


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

PVA = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate 
TACKY [ah, I see what you mean,...'Go TACKY' being a verbal inducement to a football team:jester:.. not me, cannot stand the game (soccer to you) hate it with a passion. More of a Rugby and Field Hockey Man. Youngest Daughter is a National League Player. Could hit the ball at a measured speed of 87 mph when she was 13 years old...truly awesome] any way , I digress.

Tacky = wait until pva is still slightly wet to the touch, but gives some resistance when you try to pull your fingers away. Does that make sense?? :yes: / :no:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

i kinda thought thats what tacky ment - but no clue for PVA - thanks man lets see what happens monday


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

nolabama said:


> im using plastic anchors with screws - they can be pulled out by hand - the ent memory of the coil is not helping matters - but i do like the idea of mortaring the box in and then drilling after hardend - and trimix you gotta translate that for me - sounds like you got a method that has beed tried and proven and possibly can help me out a bunch


then use a slightly larger screw or slightly smaller hole. Be sure the hole is clean as well.

the wedges can also be left in which will help retain the box.

if the substrate to the side of the box is hard enough, you can always drill to the side as well. This will allow a retainer to be utilized for its shear strength rather than pull strength.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

If you can, anchor to the stucco. That should be a hard coat of concrete. Can you use a box like a cut-in box that has ears on it?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

soft red bricks in the french quarter can have a screw driven in them with a screw driver so.. and the stucco is about two inches thick ( hard portland cement) , but with p ring and the fact the ent must have 3/4 of an inch of cement over it to prevent cracking , what im gonna do is use polyurathane construction adhesive on the saw cut at the top for correct position and leave tapcons sticking out of the bottom of the box and mortar around it and im using an ent box that we found at the depot it has screw taps but not like a cut in and it has knockouts its the same size as a 4square - thanks guys you helped a bunch


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Tips for mounting in soft brick:


Some soft brick you can run a coarse thread drywall screw right into and it will hold just like you screwed into lumber.
Use a 3/16" bit (the large Tapcon bit) instead of the 1/4" bit to drill for the Rawl plug, for a tighter hole
Use #12 screws in the plastic anchor to really spread it out, instead of the #10's the kits come with
Use PL Premium on the backs of the boxes before you screw them fast to the brick (sweep the brick off with a stiff brush first).

One of the above, or more likely a combination of 2 or 3, has never failed me.


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## sparkie (Apr 2, 2008)

pva wall screw box as best you can, pack it with bonding plaster or screw and foam it in then bonding and plaster-either way undesirable working with stone


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

*pics*

thanks - what i did with ent - the metal rings piss me off , no plastic ones in the city and the job was shut down today due to financing concerns related to the stock market ( this is a cost plus job on all crafts )
my work








from old work to my work








three gang plastic box converted to use in concrete by some other company








FS box used by other company with rigid nonmetatlic tubing ( horrible )


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

note the plumbing pipe that had to be found by hand before cutting could take place :blink:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

better pic of blue box converted for use in cement


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

You do realize if an inspector sees this he may not allow the metal rings on the plastic boxes.

Make sure you have an egc tied to the rings.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

yes we know about the egc and the metal ring and thats why they pissed me off when thats all i could get - but all the other things you see has passed some sort of inspection - ie the blue nail on in cement


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