# Hot Tub issue



## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

Why were you brought in to do the wiring? It sounds like you are over your head here, and this is no place to be experimenting if you are in the least bit unsure of what is going on. Do you think your problem is on the line side or the load side of the breaker, and why do you think the neutrals in the panel would cause your problem. What happens when you disconnect all the wires from the breaker except the white pigtail that should be connected to the neutral buss, and switch it on?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Silly question, but does the neutral from the tub go to the breaker instead of the neutral bar?

Also, why are you removing all the neutrals from the other circuits and the bonding strap? Unless there is a ground fault in them, there should not be any continuity to ground once you remove them from the neutral bar.

I hope you didn't burn anything up by removing the neutral of any MWBCs.......


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

jjdrees said:


> I will lay it all out. I was brought in to wire up a hot tub. 50A gfci CH BR into a CH panel. removed the bar connecting the neutral and ground bar. Yet the breaker will not reset. an ohm reading between neutral and ground is reading very low yet still there. what else can i do to isolate the neutral to keep the breaker from tripping out as soon as i try to turn it on. any help would be helpfull. im rackin my brain on this thing. I have taken off every neutral off the bar and checked them all to ground and came up with nothing.


Sound like your trying to burn down the house.:1eye:


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## jjdrees (Oct 8, 2008)

the breaker works fine. the issue im having is with all the neutrals all the bar and all the grounds on the on ground bar im still reading 650 ohms from nuetral to ground. thats whats throwing me for a loop. the ground fault will never work if my neutral has any continuity to ground. And i Dont know why i have the 650 ohms between the neutral bar and the ground bar in the house panel


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The neutral that feeds the hot tub, the white wire that leaves the panel and goes out to the tub.........

Is it connected to the breaker or the neutral bar?


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## jjdrees (Oct 8, 2008)

no the neutral is not in the breaker. i have a regular double pole 50amp breaker in the panel. A wire feeding to the hot tub panel where the 50 amp gfci breaker is. The pig tail from the GFCI breaker is on the neutral bar that is inside hot tub panel. then a wire going into the hot tub control box. everything is hooked up correctly. i just have resistance on my neutral and shoundnt


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jjdrees said:


> no the neutral is not in the breaker. i have a regular double pole 50amp breaker in the panel. A wire feeding to the hot tub panel where the 50 amp gfci breaker is. The pig tail from the GFCI breaker is on the neutral bar that is inside hot tub panel. then a wire going into the hot tub control box. everything is hooked up correctly. i just have resistance on my neutral and shoundnt


Nothing in the main panel is going to cause your GFI out at the tub to trip.

My guess is the white wire that comes from the tub and into where the GFI breaker is is on the neutral bar out there and not on the breaker.


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## jjdrees (Oct 8, 2008)

inside the hot tub panel where the gfci is. the neutral that is conected to the breaker is going to the neutral bar as well as the neutral from the panel and the neutral going to the tub. black and red to from the panel is going to the line side and a black and red coming out of the load side is going to the tub. The two grounds are on a seperate ground bar also in the hot tub panel. so even if I have resistance to ground on the neutral heading out to the gfci it wont trip out???


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jjdrees said:


> inside the hot tub panel where the gfci is. the neutral that is conected to the breaker is going to the neutral bar as well as the neutral from the panel and *the neutral going to the tub*. black and red to from the panel is going to the line side and a black and red coming out of the load side is going to the tub. The two grounds are on a seperate ground bar also in the hot tub panel. so even if I have resistance to ground on the neutral heading out to the gfci it wont trip out???


The neutral that goes out to the tub is on the neutral bar in the GFI panel?


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

i think the netral going to the hot tub needs to be landed on the gfi breaker .


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

zen said:


> i think the netral going to the hot tub needs to be landed on the gfi breaker .


That's my answer as well. I just wanted to make sure the tub noodle is currently on the noodle bar.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

I think the tub neutral needs to be put on the breaker.:jester:


I had to....

~Matt


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## jjdrees (Oct 8, 2008)

the tub neutral is on the breaker. inside the hot tub control box i have continuity from ground to the neutral even with the wires off. that would cause it to trip right?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jjdrees said:


> the tub neutral is on the breaker. inside the hot tub control box i have continuity from ground to the neutral even with the wires off. that would cause it to trip right?


Not necessarily. You could be reading continuity all the way back through the main panel where the neutrals and grounds are tied together. Or are you reading continuity through the terminals in the spa without the wires connected?

Take the hots off the GFI breaker and see if it holds when there's no load on it.

Also, take the tub's ground and neutral off the bars in the spa panel and see if you still have continuity.


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## jjdrees (Oct 8, 2008)

yes with the wires off at the hot tub i read continuity between just the lugs of the neutral and the ground. that would casue it to trip right?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jjdrees said:


> yes with the wires off at the hot tub i read continuity between just the lugs of the neutral and the ground. that would casue it to trip right?


 
If you're referring to the ground and neutral terminals, and if you're getting continuity between them and there's no wires on them, then yes.

Button the unit up and report to the homeowner they need to get a spa service tech out to locate the fault within the unit. IMPO, you've gone as far as you can go since the tub is not something we as electricians generally work on. Our responsibility ends at the terminals.

Seeing how it's after 1 (after 2 for you, I think?), it's time to turn in.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

jjdrees said:


> yes with the wires off at the hot tub i read continuity between just the lugs of the neutral and the ground. that would cause it to trip right?


 i think i agree with 480,disconnect N and G in the the panel with the gfi breaker and check continuity to see which direction your problem may be coming from. also take the hots off the breaker and see if it holds with no load and N's hooked up correctly if it does then do the same with one leg connected then the other to narrow down when it trips,,,,if all else fails Eric Strom is the go to man on gfci's and how the function,,
disregard that last sentence.


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## partimer31 (Jun 9, 2009)

does your hot tub use only 240 volts +/- or does it run on 120/240 volts single phase?


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Pull all three wires off tub, if anyone of them show any leakage to ground at all the tub is messsed up.


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