# Am I Strange or What?



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I can sympathize with you. I've had some tools in the past that were superb, but they aren't making them any more.

I either treat them like gold, or I've lost them. I hate it when I do the latter.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

I have also noticed this new trend in levels and I'm stubborn and don't like trying new tools for the most part. I have a Craftsman 12" torpedo for a long time now and love it. But I will say that I carry a Greenlee 6" no dog that my wife gave me as a present a while back and use it constantly, the magnets are the best I have ever seen.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The shorter the level, the easier it is for something to appear level and not actually be level. I favor using the longest level reasonable to level something. I'm not a huge fan of these levels that are just a couple inches long, except for making sure you're not doglegging pipe too badly.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> I have also noticed this new trend in levels and I'm stubborn and don't like trying new tools for the most part. I have a Craftsman 12" torpedo for a long time now and love it. But I will say that I carry a Greenlee 6" no dog that my wife gave me as a present a while back and use it constantly, the magnets are the best I have ever seen.


 I use that Craftsman 12" level also. It is a good level. You are right those magnets on the greenlee level are very strong.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

*no you're not strange (except that you're a lone crapshooter)*

I have the Greenlee 6" or 5" 4-vial level. I stopped carrying it for some reason. (Oh, the plumb vial has a leak and the bubble keeps growing ).

My Stabila 3-vial torpedo is about 10". This is my main level.

I have a regular Klein 9in. with rare earth magnets, and a Johnson (who probably makes the Klein 931-9RE) but it has the 'refrigerator' strip magnet.

Also, I own a Checkpoint USA-Made 9" G2 4-vial.

I really don't see many people using the shorter levels. 

I will admit that when I started my apprenticeship in 6/2008 that the only level that I had was the Greenlee 5" with anti-dog.  Yeah, then I got the Klein 931-9RE (that's the gray and black cast aluminum 3-vial).

I would feel weird leveling panel backboxes, conduit, and similar items with a short level, except that Greenlee 5" is one handy level... :whistling2:


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

These 'uns...

























...here.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> These 'uns...
> 
> View attachment 3247
> 
> ...


 

That check point level is hard to find!!!


The new ones all have the 30 degree vile facing the other way. It's extremely annoying for the way I use it. I treat my old one like GOLD,,,,cuz the new ones are made opposite WHY?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

I think you are strange.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BP_redbear said:


> These 'uns...
> 
> View attachment 3247
> 
> ...


 What kind of ring is on your finger?


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

william1978 said:


> What kind of ring is on your finger?


it's 12 solid copper wire wrapped 3 times. I lost my gold ring. It was my grandfather's. 
I thought about filling the in-betweens in the copper wraps with solder...

Now, am I the strange one?


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

william1978 said:


> I use that Craftsman 12" level also. It is a good level. ...


The 'required tools list' in my local required a 12" level. It was re-worded this Jan to read 9" level.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BP_redbear said:


> it's 12 solid copper wire wrapped 3 times. I lost my gold ring. It was my grandfather's.
> I thought about filling the in-betweens in the copper wraps with solder...
> 
> Now, am I the strange one?


 Cool. What did you do with the ends of the wire?


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> That check point level is hard to find!!!
> 
> 
> The new ones all have the 30 degree vile facing the other way. It's extremely annoying for the way I use it. I treat my old one like GOLD,,,,cuz the new ones are made opposite WHY?


Chad's tool Box (online) has the G2 USA, but their price... 
That's where I got mine. Did I pay that much?

Maybe they don't have them anymore... At last check, when they had USA G2 levels, they were $69.99!!!
http://chadstoolbox.com/checkpointultramagg3grgradientvialtorpedolevel.aspx
Don't see them there, now...


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

I love that little Greenlee for small boxes and that type of thing and use the 12" for panelboxes and anything up to @2' long, other than conduit. I agree the longest level is the way to go, I do have a 4' level on the truck but haven't really used it since I was given a small 90deg axis laser line.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Back in the 70's when I started in this game torpedo levels were 9" long Now I am seeine levels 6" 8" 8 1/2" and now palm size levels. What is driving level companies to make levels smaller and smaller?
> There are a lot of old gummers out there that like the 9" levels so that they will not get lost in our pouches or back pockets.
> One of the best levels I have is a Four Way Level that was made in Beaumont TX and They must be out of business now because I cannot find them on the web. I have spent several hours looking for them with no luck.
> 
> ...


hell i live in Beaumont Texas:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

BP_redbear said:


> These 'uns...
> 
> View attachment 3247
> 
> ...


 
Have you seen the Klein level that looks more like the Checkpoint? I have 
the Klein like the top one in the pic but it has strip magnet that's useless. 
I thought about getting the newer version because of the better magnets.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> Have you seen the Klein level that looks more like the Checkpoint? I have
> the Klein like the top one in the pic but it has strip magnet that's useless.
> I thought about getting the newer version because of the better magnets.


Agreed on the strip magnet.
This Klein has the three rare earth magnets, that you can barely see in the picture above. They are very strong. The level is made in USA. I like the proportions of the vials and the bubbles. For about $20 to $25, it's still a pretty good basic level.

I have seen the Klein that looks like the Checkpoint-type. I haven't used one, yet.

I would carry a 12" level if I could keep it in me pocket! (Actually the Stabila level pictured above came with a holster)! It's 10 inches, very handy, and accurate!

The Johnson brand level that looks identical to the Klein pictured has the refrigerator magnet that is certainly very weak in comparison. 









I believe that Klein gets their level made by Johnson, at least that model...

Klein: Black. Johnson: red.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

BP_redbear said:


> The Klein has the three rare earth magnets, that you can barely see in the picture above. They are very strong. The level is made in USA. I like the proportions of the vials and the bubbles. For about $20 to $25, it's still a pretty good basic level.
> 
> I have seen the Klein that looks like the Checkpoint-type. I haven't used one, yet.
> 
> ...


 
The Klein I don't use is probably just an older version of the one you posted, it has the strip magnet and glow in the dark frames, they don't really work either.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

william1978 said:


> Cool. What did you do with the ends of the wire?


Just left it plain, laid next to the wraps, smoothed the tips.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

I got this one from lowes for 10 buck, after I left mine in another truck. It has earth magnets this one works fine for me. 
*Swanson Magnetic Torpedo Level*


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Voltech said:


> I got this one from lowes for 10 buck, after I left mine in another truck. It has earth magnets this one works fine for me.
> *Swanson Magnetic Torpedo Level*


 

You don't use that for conduit do you? no 30 degree vile


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You don't use that for conduit do you? no 30 degree vile


I use a 90° vial for doing 30° bends with no problems.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I use a 90° vial for doing 30° bends with no problems.


 

Not with the bubble in between th elines you don't


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I think the only time I ever use the 30deg vial is on our big one shot bender. Even then most of the time I use a protractor.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> I think the only time I ever use the 30deg vial is on our big one shot bender. Even then most of the time I use a protractor.


 

so to make an offset with a handbender,what doyou use then?IMO 30 is most popular because of the multiplier


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> so to make an offset with a handbender,what doyou use then?IMO 30 is most popular because of the multiplier


I use the index marks on the bender.


If you're one of those guys that make your first bend on the floor, handle straight up is 30deg. Unless you use a GB.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> I use the index marks on the bender.


 

wheeewwwww,,,I bet that's pretty


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

*Am I strange or what.*

And the answer is YES. You are strange,I am strange, We are all strange. Maybe even WEIRD.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> wheeewwwww,,,I bet that's pretty


 Umm, yea, most of the time.

What do you do if you have to bend 10s or 15s? What about a saddle?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Not with the bubble in between th elines you don't



Sure I do. I use the level on the bender handle... it's a lot easier to read there, and straight up on a 30° bender.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Sure I do. I use the level on the bender handle... it's a lot easier to read there, and straight up on a 30° bender.


I'll do that, as long as the handle's straight, and after I've verified that a bend made with the handle plumb is actually 30.

For 10s, 15s, 22.5s, whatevers, see the Stabila level pictured on page 1. One 0. One 90. One protractor vial built in. It really works well!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> Umm, yea, most of the time.
> 
> What do you do if you have to bend 10s or 15s? What about a saddle?


 


10s or 15s are small enough you can bend by the hash marks, but 30 can become really noticable. Sure you can bend one beautifully,but repeatability can be tricky without a level, one can look good, but a bank of twenty conduits, all with the same offset, will look funky without a level.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> I use the index marks on the bender.
> 
> 
> If you're one of those guys that make your first bend on the floor, handle straight up is 30deg. Unless you use a GB.


 

So you do use thirty degrees, just not a thirty degree vile.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> So you do use thirty degrees, just not a thirty degree vile.


 Yea most of the time I bend 30s unless there is some good reason not to, matching existing, space, whatever. 
I've never had much trouble matching multiple bend using the hash marks. 
I guess I'm just that damn good.:jester:


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

mattsilkwood said:


> Yea most of the time I bend 30s unless there is some good reason not to, matching existing, space, whatever.
> I've never had much trouble matching multiple bend using the hash marks.
> I guess I'm just that damn good.:jester:


I have always used hash marks. If im running exposed or using someone elses bender (which I hate and they are all the same) i will start off using the level, once I get going I use my eyeball and hashes

Edit: Running 1/2 and 3/4


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Voltech said:


> ................
> 
> Edit: Running 1/3 and 3/4


Where do you get 1/3" EMT at? :jester:


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Where do you get 1/3" EMT at? :jester:


I make it, How much do you want? I'll send you the address where to send the check..

Its real cheap right now too:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Voltech said:


> I make it, How much do you want? I'll send you the address where to send the check..
> 
> Its real cheap right now too:thumbsup:



I don't need any right now.... I don't have a 1/3" bender.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I don't need any right now.... I don't have a 1/3" bender.


 The conduit is next to nothing but the bender costs 27000 bucks.:jester:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mattsilkwood said:


> The conduit is next to nothing but the bender costs 27000 bucks.:jester:



I'll buy one from Peter D. He got a couple dozen from Home Despot for $2 each.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I'll buy one from Peter D. He got a couple dozen from Home Despot for $2 each.


 Yea but those are for a metric inch.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> The shorter the level, the easier it is for something to appear level and not actually be level. I favor using the longest level reasonable to level something. I'm not a huge fan of these levels that are just a couple inches long, except for making sure you're not doglegging pipe too badly.


Agreed, seems like I remember the rule of thumb being 4x the level length is the most it is supposed to be accurate for. Does not give you much with a 5" level. I do not remember where I heard that figure, but it seems reasonable to me even forgetting the source.


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> Maybe they don't have them anymore... At last check, when they had USA G2 levels, they were $69.99!!!
> http://chadstoolbox.com/checkpointultramagg3grgradientvialtorpedolevel.aspx
> Don't see them there, now...


They are selling those for over double what they're worth. Straight from Checkpoint those levels cost about $33.

You can easily find an 880 G3 laser level for the prices that place is asking.


EDIT: I just checked a site I've ordered tools from in the past and its on sale for about $25. There regular prices is $30, still less than half of chadstoolbox's ridiculous prices.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21530&filter=level

EDIT #2: If any of you guys check the site, they also have the EV 600 laser/square level for $30 but its the one without the magnets. That's what I originally ordered from them considering the going rate for that level is normally double that anywhere else. I just drilled out a bunch of holes in the base and added magnets myself and it worked like a charm.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Mike_586 said:


> They are selling those for over double what they're worth. Straight from Checkpoint those levels cost about $33.
> 
> You can easily find an 880 G3 laser level for the prices that place is asking.
> 
> ...


 
I wouldn't ever pay that much for a level like that. How did you get the magnets aligned to read perfect to the plane of the level?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Mike_586 said:


> They are selling those for over double what they're worth. Straight from Checkpoint those levels cost about $33.
> 
> You can easily find an 880 G3 laser level for the prices that place is asking.
> 
> ...


 

That's just like I said, the 30 vile is backwardscompared to original model


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> That's just like I said, the 30 vile is backwardscompared to original model


I know what you mean about the 30 degree vial being in reverse on the G3 Checkpoint versus the G2. I don't know the reason. 

Anyone have the Greenlee 9" made by Checkpoint? I believe it may be the G3, newer model. Where is the 30 on that?

Side note about my G2. The plumb vial got a leak and was getting air in it (just like my Greenlee 5" is doing now  ). Checkpoint repaired it, no questions asked. No proof of purchase/original-owner-only-BS. All I paid was the shipping one way.

And, yes, when Chad's had the G2 USA for $69.99, that was a ridiculous price. Shame on them. I can see raising it a bit for it being the 'last of the USA-made G2' Checkpoints, but $70?!?

Please start spelling vile as *vial*, lol! :whistling2:


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Here's the Greenlee 9"









One of the questions that i have with this level, is "Why are the magnets on the shorter edge??" )The V-Groove is on the longer edge, with the magnets on the opposite edge).

In the picture shown, the magnets are at the bottom of the pic, and the V-Groove is at the top.

Now, it's not much shorter, but the other Checkpoints have the magnets on the longer edge...


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Mike_586 said:


> They are selling those for over double what they're worth. Straight from Checkpoint those levels cost about $33.
> 
> You can easily find an 880 G3 laser level for the prices that place is asking.
> 
> ...


And notice that the G2 that Chad's has at the moment is the G2 GR. It has gradient marks on the 0 degree level. This isn't the basic G2, which i don't see listed anymore.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Hay Bduerler
living in the Beaumont area do you have any idea what happened to 4 Way. I was at their shop one time it was not much bigger than a broom closet back on a side street in a warehouse. I even sent the local in Beaumont a email with no reply. I think the level I have still has their address on it. I will post it later.

Thanks

LC


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Hmm I've never needed a level for making my conduit bends. I've always been lucky using the hash marks on the bender head. Then again I've never had to bend 20 uniform offsets or whatever...

I just have a Stabila level with a horizontal and vertical vial in it... like 12''


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

SparkYZ said:


> Hmm I've never needed a level for making my conduit bends. I've always been lucky using the hash marks on the bender head. Then again I've never had to bend 20 uniform offsets or whatever...
> 
> I just have a Stabila level with a horizontal and vertical vial in it... like 12''


even doing 90's with a big ass kick? I had to leave a level on the unkicked portion to even it out before I kicked it.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Hay Bduerler
> living in the Beaumont area do you have any idea what happened to 4 Way. I was at their shop one time it was not much biger than a broom closet back on a side street in a warehouse. Ieven sent the local in Beaumont a email with no reply. I think the level I have still has theie address on it. I will post it later.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


i have no idea what happened to it, my dad has had one for the longest time and its somewhere in the house shoot me a PM with the address and i will drive by there and see whats going on


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks 
I will send you one next week. 



LC


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Thanks
> I will send you one next week.
> 
> 
> ...


no problem:thumbsup:hell im such a nice guy if they still make them i will send ya one if you want me to:thumbup:


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Does that stabila level have magnets on it or no?


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

cdnelectrician said:


> Does that stabila level have magnets on it or no?


Mine does. (The one pictured in one of my posts, earlier on in this thread).

There is a "bad-ass, don't-get-your-fingers-in-the-way-of-this-mother-of-a-magnet" located right in the center, below the 0 degree vial. It is about 1" long, attached under a steel cover plate with two screws

Also, there is a V-groove on the machined flat edge, a feature that I like very much! (Having the V-groove and the flat edge together makes the level align itself with the axis of conduit, better than one where the V is non-magnetic.

I believe there is four (or more?) versions of the 10" Stabila torpedo.
1-vial (0 deg.) non-magnetic
2-vial (0 deg. & plumb) magnetic
3-vial (0 deg., plumb, & 45 deg.) magnetic
3-vial (0 deg., plumb, & rotating protractor) magnetic -pictured-

Remember the Crazy Glue commercials with the dude hanging from an I-beam by his Crazy-glued-to-the-beam hardhat? Well, Crazy Glue your hardhat to a Stabila magnetic torpedo level, hang on to the hardhat, give the 'hoist-away' signal, and you're goin' up!! :thumbup:


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

The Stabila vials are also encapsulated in Lexan. No way the lines are going to wear off these vials.

Also, the 'lines' on the vials are not really 'lines'. They are steel rings, precisely placed on the vials.

Notice that the vials are not just a straight piece of tubing. They are curved slightly, making them extremely sensitive.

The bubbles settle very quickly, also.

I paid $50 at Sears.com for mine, leather holster included. I am very happy with it.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

That looks like a nice level, I use an Empire torpedo...the only reason I love this level is that it is the same thickness as the shoe tip on most benders up to 1". I place the level flat on its side under the conduit when I am bending a kick in a 90. It keeps the kick straight to the 90 everytime. The magnets suck though.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Here's the magnet and close-up of a vial. 

81SVREMW360 is the model number of this level.

































Since I got used to the magnet being in the center, I have no issues with that feature. It is directly below the 0 degree vial.

I do protect the protractor dial. (i.e. I keep that surface off the floor, wall, etc. If I lay that side against anything, the protractor dial is out. When I holster it (left hip) the dial is at my back, protecting it. Eventually some of the marking on the dial will wear off. Maybe Stabila will replace it. I haven't had to go there yet. The adjustment is smooth, and it stays where I put it (usually on 30). But, I have used it to determine the angle of existing bends, make offsets with angles other than 30, and kick to specific, non-standard angles.

When I bought this level, my Checkpoint G2 was out for repair, and I was in the market for a magnetic protractor, anyway. I stumbled across the Stabila in a internet search for protractors/protractor levels.


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