# I would like to ask a real higher-up engineer a question



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Here is an example (bottom right hand corner of the enclosure) of a factory weeping hole in outdoor enclosures, giving it it's 3R rating:










Click for larger.

Those rear holes along with the slots in the front allow water to drain.


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## Milbank_Marissa (Jul 14, 2016)

We have a lot of folks out for the holidays, but I'll send it around. Might be til next week! I'll keep you posted.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Milbank_Marissa said:


> We have a lot of folks out for the holidays, but I'll send it around. Might be til next week! I'll keep you posted.


Thank you Marissa.


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## Milbank_Marissa (Jul 14, 2016)

From the engineering department: "We have corner notches in the bottoms to drain water. The 1/4" KO is for the grounding wire."

Does that answer everyone's question? Let me know!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Thank you very much Marissa. Just for that, I will look for Milbank items now, even though you don't sell any on Oahu that I have seen. You really should though. Home Depot?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Thank you very much Marissa. Just for that, I will look for Milbank items now, even though you don't sell any on Oahu that I have seen. You really should though. Home Depot?


I'll send you some from the mainland.


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## Milbank_Marissa (Jul 14, 2016)

Haha love it! Yes we should be at your local home depot! I'll check to see if we're in Oahu anywhere else." :thumbsup:



macmikeman said:


> Thank you very much Marissa. Just for that, I will look for Milbank items now, even though you don't sell any on Oahu that I have seen. You really should though. Home Depot?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Milbank_Marissa said:


> Haha love it! Yes we should be at your local home depot! I'll check to see if we're in Oahu anywhere else." :thumbsup:


I don't see anything from you guys at Home Depot. Or Lowe's.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Thank you Marissa, I really appreciate it.

Can one of you gentlemen please post this at Mike Holt’s forum letting them know that now both Square D and Milbank specify the 1/4” hole or 5/16” hole is for the grounding electrode conductor please. Thanks.


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## Milbank_Marissa (Jul 14, 2016)

That's crazy! My afternoon project will be to figure out why- I'll ask our retail lady



macmikeman said:


> I don't see anything from you guys at Home Depot. Or Lowe's.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Milbank_Marissa said:


> That's crazy! My afternoon project will be to figure out why- I'll ask our retail lady


The train don't come all the way out yet..........


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Mike your POCO will usually spec what meter pans they accept. The local suppliers are going to stock whatever that market will require.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MikeFL said:


> Mike your POCO will usually spec what meter pans they accept. The local suppliers are going to stock whatever that market will require.


Pretty rare for us to even use a meter pan. We hang meter/mains usually and those are set to USERAC or some letters like that. Alternately , for larger services, we can mount a CT can and a meter pan for a checking meter, then a Service disconnecting /overcurrent protection , and then the panels remote if we like. That's about the only time I have hung a meter pan here , that and tenant check metering for commercial sub spaces. 


I remember wholesale houses stocking Milbank items way long ago like 70's . 
Except for this forum, I would have assumed they went the way of the Challenger during the buyout frenzy.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Milbank doesn't make an EUSERC products apparently.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Saying EUSERC around here is like sending up a telsa bat signal. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

B-Nabs said:


> Saying EUSERC around here is like sending up a telsa bat signal.


I will have to disguise it somehow next time. Maybe CRESUE?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MTW said:


> I will have to disguise it somehow next time. Maybe CRESUE?


Too late.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

telsa said:


> Too late.


So, telsa, since you won't dare step into the GEC thread, I will ask here...

You tried to substantiate the requirement to bond the GEC to a panel as it enters by saying that the existence of the Kenny clamp as a product being sold means that it _had_ to be used, or else it wouldn't be available to buy. Those were your words, I can quote them here if you like.

So, using that logic, the fact that 2 of the biggest manufacturers say that the hole in their panel/pan is for the GEC to pass thru without being bonded, that would mean that it's OK, right?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Chirp, chirp, chirp..............


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

................


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

@chicken steve

We need you to send this thread to your friend Rick Holbroock so that he doesn't continue to give out bad information, thanks.


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## MXer774 (Sep 1, 2014)

For some reason, I don't think we are going to see responses.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Steve, are you going to admit that you're wrong?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

@chicken steve 

Since you were so big on contacting the manufacturers, I would like to hear your opinion on the fact that both Square D and Milbank say that the small hole is for the GEC, and their listing says to use it for that purpose.

I would also like to hear what you said to Rick Holbroock. Thanks.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

there is more than one grounding scheme and they are dependent upon the disconnect means used and dependent on the requirements of the locality.
hence you will find bonding fixtures in panels, disconnects, and meter cans
to say one is correct and not the other is foolishness.

its a simple procedure when getting the permit in order to get a hold of the local inspector for the required information.
while we have the nec and cec codes to rely on you need to remember that local code requirements can and often do supersede the nec and cec


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This discussion is based on the NEC. We have clearly said that since the beginning.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

gnuuser said:


> there is more than one grounding scheme and they are dependent upon the disconnect means used and dependent on the requirements of the locality.
> hence you will find bonding fixtures in panels, disconnects, and meter cans
> to say one is correct and not the other is foolishness.
> 
> ...


I'll agree that state amendments do supersede NEC requirements Gnuuser

But that would be a pre legislated agreement state bureaucratic oversight would have _on_ the books

I say this because a 90.4 can _clash_ with a 110.3B , and will fall back on such instruments.

Imagine yourself an AHJ, confronted daily with electrical materials some of which are approved via _for_ profit NRTL's

Would you hang your hat on the _safest_ install , or what they are telling you it is?

~CS~


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Steve, can you explain the 1/4" knockout at the panel bottom once again please? I want to make sure to send your information to Square-d and to Milbank engineering to inform them they are all wrong about it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> I'll agree that state amendments do supersede NEC requirements Gnuuser
> 
> But that would be a pre legislated agreement state bureaucratic oversight would have _on_ the books
> 
> ...


So you are now trying to say that an inspector should fail a job based on his own feelings of what is safe instead of going by the code and the manufacturer's listing??

You are THAT petty and pathetic? You just won't admit that you are wrong about such a simple issue.


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## Milbank_Marissa (Jul 14, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> I don't see anything from you guys at Home Depot. Or Lowe's.


Checked into this-- apparently we're only at select Home Depot's and Lowes. :sad:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Can we get Rick Holbroock to come in here and tell us why what he emailed chicken Steve was the opposite of what Marissa said the engineering team said?

Steve to this very day continually uses Rick's response to justify incorrect installations. This is important that we find out the truth.


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## Milbank_Marissa (Jul 14, 2016)

I will email him and get back to you--


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Any word?

It's funny because when Rick Holbroock gave wrong and dangerous information to Steve, he did so very quickly. Now we can't get a reply at all. Now, both of them are not willing to even comment on it.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

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HackWork said:


> Any word?
> 
> It's funny because when Rick Holbroock gave wrong and dangerous information to Steve, he did so very quickly. Now we can't get a reply at all. Now, both of them are not willing to even comment on it.


Mr. Holbrook died on January 13th from complications while having a metal sliver removed from his eye. Seems he was drilling a 1/4" hole into a panel can.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> Mr. Holbrook died on January 13th from complications while having a metal sliver removed from his eye. Seems he was drilling a 1/4" hole into a panel can.


What an awful way to go!


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## Milbank_Marissa (Jul 14, 2016)

MTW said:


> Milbank doesn't make an EUSERC products apparently.


Ouch that hurts! 

We absolutely do! Here's a link to our Western Region Catalog:

https://milbankworks.com/getmedia/d85d4b96-f657-4b53-ad34-0d160abbae11/western-region.pdf


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Milbank_Marissa said:


> Ouch that hurts!
> 
> We absolutely do! Here's a link to our Western Region Catalog:
> 
> https://milbankworks.com/getmedia/d85d4b96-f657-4b53-ad34-0d160abbae11/western-region.pdf


I stand corrected. :thumbup:


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