# New construction residential service



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

If it in a part of the basement that is the utility area and won't ever be a "finished" area, then yeah, leave it surface mounted. OSB...yuck. I like plywood and I like it painted grey, but that's just me.

I hate recesssed panels.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

Thanks flyboy it's in the middle of the house. I would consider it in the utility room but what I think doesn't always match what homeowners plan for the future is.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

And yes I hate recessed panels as well so that's why I am seeing what other guys are doing. So pretty much it comes down to if they will use that area as a living room/ bedroom or whatever. Then you have to put it in that wall.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> Thanks flyboy it's in the middle of the house. I would consider it in the utility room but what I think doesn't always match what homeowners plan for the future is.


Well if he's going to finish the utility room, then he's going to love looking at the exposed cables going into the surface mounted panel. You know, some people just love "that industrial look".


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## Warner0032 (Oct 26, 2017)

If the plan calls for a finished basement I suppose you could mount the panel in the wall and put plywood above and below the panel. If added circuits are later required, unscrew the plywood and VIOLA!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

This is the beauty of meter/mains. If you fill up the recess panels inside, you can still run new home runs out to the exterior meter/main and use some of the spare breaker spaces there. the 100 amp 16 circuit one from Eaton cost me 52 dollars yesterday. The two hundred amp 20 circuit one is $100 dollars. It's in my bid. Future PV heaven. I feel the love when I put one up on a house.


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## Warner0032 (Oct 26, 2017)

Ultimately, it’s the customer’s call. You presents ‘em with the possibilities and they make a choice.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

No the plan is an unfinished basement but it has a walkout so I know they will be doing something in the future. The panel will be right on the edge of there future rec room and utility room. That's my guess like I said the plan shows unfinished basement.


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

Not that I do many but I've never done a flush mount in a new home. Probably because of the insulation in the basement walls. I put in the insulation, vapor barrier and then 5/8 plywood or a nice GC will do it for me.I haven't painted mine in the past but it's a good idea. 

Tim.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

My AHJ demands extra EMT/PVC entries into all such panels.

For us, it's automatic.

In economic terms, they don't exactly break the bank, either.

Problem gone.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

16/20 circuits wouldn't wire a shed around here. Are your houses the size of a shoe box?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

since the 2014 NEC code , AFCI homeruns have a length limit
of 50' for 14 awg and 75' for 12 awg...right?..Or else longer
branch circuit feeders will have to be in steel..cost more$$$$

So I have been specifying in my proposals where I will be
putting the main panel (in the basement , which is now in
the middle of the basement centrally located. I'm putting in
Main meter disco's and running SER to the main lug panel.

If the HO wants to change this when I begin the job , I 
point out that it changes the specs I proposed and will
have to add more $$ to account for running home runs 
in metal.

as for the OP's "landlocking" the main panel , most homes have
a mechanics room. surface mount it in there.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

lighterup said:


> since the 2014 NEC code , AFCI homeruns have a length limit
> of 50' for 14 awg and 75' for 12 awg...right?..


 When using an AFCI outlet. Not an AFCI breaker. 

FWIW, it's 70' for #12.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> When using an AFCI outlet. Not an AFCI breaker.
> 
> FWIW, it's 70' for #12.


Shhhhh...I still like the central located panel :wink:
Thanx for the correction .I swear I thought it was 75


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

HackWork said:


> When using an AFCI outlet. Not an AFCI breaker.
> 
> FWIW, it's 70' for #12.


I'm going to start a new thread on this. Will you go to it? I have a question


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## Arrow3030 (Mar 12, 2014)

I wish I had that problem! 

Our frost line is about 4" below the surface so no basement and any rough in under a house needs to get done before hvac takes up all the space.

This means our panels are almost always flush mount in a hall, laundry room, garage, walk in closet, you get the idea.

If you ever see me at home depot I'm probably buying some plumbers access panels for above/below a panel.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> 16/20 circuits wouldn't wire a shed around here. Are your houses the size of a shoe box?


Were you asking me or the op? I usually end up putting in two Eaton Br 30-40's side by side in the garage or someplace else, maybe one downstairs and one upstairs. The extra spaces in the meter / main I leave alone for possibility of PV or some future work maybe. I'll put in two 2 pole 100 amp brkrs and two runs of 1/0 ser (our little outpost stocks #2 ser and then next size up is always 1/0, never even seen #3, #1 size wire in my lifetime. I don't like running 4/0 al ser cable very much, for one thing we don't frame exteriors with 2x6's the outside walls are only2x4's mostly so that big ass cable don't bend so good in 3-1/2 inches, but I have done some before. Not many . Some.....


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I wish we had basements... They are always so nice and cool in the summer when it's 110 out!

I use to work with an EC that would run some 3/4" Smurf from every panel he set, either to the attic, crawl space, or the ever elusive basement...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Were you asking me or the op? I usually end up putting in two Eaton Br 30-40's side by side in the garage or someplace else, maybe one downstairs and one upstairs. The extra spaces in the meter / main I leave alone for possibility of PV or some future work maybe. I'll put in two 2 pole 100 amp brkrs and two runs of 1/0 ser (our little outpost stocks #2 ser and then next size up is always 1/0, never even seen #3, #1 size wire in my lifetime. I don't like running 4/0 al ser cable very much, for one thing we don't frame exteriors with 2x6's the outside walls are only2x4's mostly so that big ass cable don't bend so good in 3-1/2 inches, but I have done some before. Not many . Some.....


It's a good idea splitting the 200A service into 2 100A panels.

But why not just use the available #2 SER and a 90A breaker? It's easier for you and a bit cheaper than 1/0 SER and no one will ever notice the missing 10A.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> It's a good idea splitting the 200A service into 2 100A panels.
> 
> But why not just use the available #2 SER and a 90A breaker? It's easier for you and a bit cheaper than 1/0 SER and no one will ever notice the missing 10A.


Or just run the #2 AL and put it on a 100 like the rest of the world.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

I think I'm gonna insulate the stud space, put a vapor barrier and paint a piece of 5/8" plywood gray and slap the panel on that. There is a metal beam that runs down the center of the house that is usually how people split up rooms in a basement and the spot I will put the panel lands on the future utility room side of the beam where the sump crock and well tank is.

I have never done it like this but that is how I would want it in my house.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> Or just run the #2 AL and put it on a 100 like the rest of the world.


Electrical inspectors on Oahu won't pass that, they know its only rated 90. 


I did what Hax suggested a couple of times , only the Japanese homeowners pay attention to every detail there is anytime you work on their properties. So suddenly they get to thinking "I aways had a hundred amp breaker to my panel before and now it's only a 90. This F'n Haole is trying to cheat me". and all the pestering questions ensue. In their mind, you were a good F'n Haole for a while but your inner deficiencies took over as they always do and now you are a crook. Even the old grandma's are on to your lousy stinking Haole scam to cheat them out of ten amps. Next thing suddenly you will hear "Where are you from " " How long you an electrician", "Are you in the Union?" We always had a local boy do the electric before now, they gave us 100 amps, you are doing it wrong!"

The path of least resistance is 1/0 and charge large.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Electrical inspectors on Oahu won't pass that, they know its only rated 90.


 Inspectors anywhere won't pass that if they notice it, including Nebraska. 



> I did what Hax suggested a couple of times , only the Japanese homeowners pay attention to every detail there is anytime you work on their properties. So suddenly they get to thinking "I aways had a hundred amp breaker to my panel before and now it's only a 90. This F'n Haole is trying to cheat me". and all the pestering questions ensue. In their mind, you were a good F'n Haole for a while but your inner deficiencies took over as they always do and now you are a crook. Even the old grandma's are on to your lousy stinking Haole scam to cheat them out of ten amps. Next thing suddenly you will hear "Where are you from " " How long you an electrician", "Are you in the Union?" We always had a local boy do the electric before now, they gave us 100 amps, you are doing it wrong!"
> 
> The path of least resistance is 1/0 and charge large.


So do like I do and switch it out to 100A after the inspection. 

I still own the first 90A breaker that I ever bought, I just keep taking it back out. Just like I still have the first AFCI breakers I ever bought sitting in the back of the truck. The bus contacts are starting to get soft, though lol.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Inspectors anywhere won't pass that if they notice it, including Nebraska.
> 
> 
> So do like I do and switch it out to 100A after the inspection.
> ...


Sometimes I just want to run around the house and hug you.


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

So hack you just take out your afci breakers after inspection?

And according to the 2008 310.15 B 6 #2 aluminum works for the main feeders. But if your in the 2014 code 310.15 B 7 says your conductors shall have an ampacity not less than 83% of the service rating so wouldnt that make it okay to run a #1 aluminum for your Main Feeder since it's rated 85 amps at 60C and you can put it on a 100 amp breaker.

Now if we are talking subpanels then yes 1/0 aluminum would be needed.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Chevys10zr2 said:


> So hack you just take out your afci breakers after inspection?
> 
> And according to the 2008 310.15 B 6 #2 aluminum works for the main feeders. But if your in the 2014 code 310.15 B 7 says your conductors shall have an ampacity not less than 83% of the service rating so wouldnt that make it okay to run a #1 aluminum for your Main Feeder since it's rated 85 amps at 60C and you can put it on a 100 amp breaker.
> 
> Now if we are talking subpanels then yes 1/0 aluminum would be needed.


 Of course.

And in Mike's situation they are subpanels. The main disconnect is combined with the meter outside.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

.............................


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## Chevys10zr2 (Jan 30, 2017)

Oh yeah gotcha. They would be subpanels.

I kinda want to do that with the breakers. You could save a ton per house and the regular breakers worked fine for years. Then again I would feel like a hack doing it.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Switched said:


> I wish we had basements... They are always so nice and cool in the summer when it's 110 out!
> 
> I use to work with an EC that would run some 3/4" Smurf from every panel he set, either to the attic, crawl space, or the ever elusive basement...


I think the zodiac killer had a basement


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I think the zodiac killer had a basement


Of course he did... Hiding all of your psycho stuff in a crawl space kinda sucks....


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