# Bathroom fan gfci protrcted



## Electricite (Feb 17, 2014)

Elliott I am new to forum. Have been wiring for 30 years. Just had inspector say that fan within. 3 feet if tub needs to be protected. Thanks


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Nothing in the NEC, but manufacturer's instructions many times will require GFI protection if within the footprint of the tub/shower. Check local amendments.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

I have had a couple inspectors tell me this, and it has been implied on manufacturer suggestions plenty of times. It's easier to just throw that circuit on a GFCI breaker and not argue.


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## Electricite (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok thanks I d never heard of it either. He also said 2 cables on top of each other required red staple. Had nt heard of that either. He must have own code book.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

svh19044 said:


> I have had a couple inspectors tell me this, and it has been implied on manufacturer suggestions plenty of times. *It's easier to just throw that circuit on a GFCI breaker and not argue.*


That's expensive. I just feed it from the GFCI receptacle that is already there.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Hack Work said:


> That's expensive. I just feed it from the GFCI receptacle that is already there.


You may not be able to if the bath circuit is used in other bathrooms.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Electricite said:


> Ok thanks I d never heard of it either. He also said 2 cables on top of each other required red staple. Had nt heard of that either. He must have own code book.


What is a red staple. I use the regular staples for 2- 12/2 NM cables. I would think if the cables were round there would be an issue with the standard size staples.


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## Electricite (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok sounds good txs


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Hack Work said:


> That's expensive. I just feed it from the GFCI receptacle that is already there.


Sure, if you are already sharing that circuit and it's already fed from the receptacle. 

Otherwise, if it includes rewiring, it's cheaper an easier to just put the whole bathroom no a gfci breaker. If the fan is on a different circuit, instead of rewiring, it's also easier to throw it on a gfci breaker. 

But yes, there are a few limited circumstances for small bathrooms where your suggestion is perfectly valid.


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Electricite said:


> Ok thanks I d never heard of it either. He also said 2 cables on top of each other required red staple. Had nt heard of that either. He must have own code book.


What the heck is a red staple? For many more than 2 wires, he could be referring to the use of 










Otherwise most staples are rated for 2 12/2 romex.


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## Electricite (Feb 17, 2014)

You can t just throw it on gfci breaker cause now it s gotta be afci also ugh


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## Electricite (Feb 17, 2014)

Red staple. Little bigger then blue has red insulation


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

svh19044 said:


> But yes, there are a few limited circumstances for small bathrooms where your suggestion is perfectly valid.


This statement would be correct if you changed out "a few limited circumstances" for "the overwhelming majority of the time".


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Electricite said:


> You can t just throw it on gfci breaker cause now it s gotta be afci also ugh


What code are you under?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Electricite said:


> Red staple. Little bigger then blue has red insulation


I call them stackers- they take 4 wires. A staple


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

svh19044 said:


> What code are you under?


Massachusettes is under 2014


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Massachusettes is under 2014


They don't waste time! :001_huh:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Electricite said:


> Ok thanks I d never heard of it either. He also said 2 cables on top of each other required red staple. Had nt heard of that either. He must have own code book.



His within 3' of the tub is nonsense, over a tub or shower most likely yes as required by manufacturers. 

He's probably technically correct on the staple but again nonsense.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Massachusettes is under 2014


More 1814, pilgrim hats, the occasional witch burning, etc.....~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> He's probably technically correct on the staple but again nonsense.


because lord knows our tax $$$ goes to _politically correct stapalage_ first & foremost !:jester:

~CS~


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

Electricite said:


> Elliott I am new to forum. Have been wiring for 30 years. Just had inspector say that fan within. 3 feet if tub needs to be protected. Thanks


never had an inspector call us on that, somtimes, we get a call back that the bathroom fan will trip the gfci the odd time, but 9 times out of 10 you wont have a problem, its the safer thing to do. I recently installed a panasonic fan that actually had a sticker saying " safe to use with gfci protection"...and its mike holmes approved lmfao


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

the-apprentice said:


> never had an inspector call us on that, somtimes, we get a call back that the bathroom fan will trip the gfci the odd time, but 9 times out of 10 you wont have a problem, *its the safer thing to do.* I recently installed a panasonic fan that actually had a sticker saying " safe to use with gfci protection"...and its mike holmes approved lmfao


How many times can you cite a person being injured by playing with the exhaust fan and the injury occurring because there was no GFCI protection? 

I'll patiently await your response.


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

lol no idea-, i just do as im told lol


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Electricite said:


> Ok thanks I d never heard of it either. He also said 2 cables on top of each other required red staple. Had nt heard of that either. He must have own code book.


Welcome aboard..:thumbsup:

What town?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> What is a red staple. I use the regular staples for 2- 12/2 NM cables. I would think if the cables were round there would be an issue with the standard size staples.


:laughing:

Here in the mass electrical code we must use insulated staples , the regular size are blue and the next size up are red,I've never been called on having two under one staple,He's ball busting IMO.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

svh19044 said:


> They don't waste time! :001_huh:


The book is still not available around here yet,But it is the law..:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

svh19044 said:


> They don't waste time! :001_huh:


Also NH wants us to take the 2014 update before the end of 2014 otherwise our licenses will be considered lapsed:no:


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

I just downloaded the 2014 NEC for Nook. :icon_eek: 
Getting tired of being left out... 
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/national-electrical-code-handbook-13th-ed-mark-w-nfpa/1117775184?ean=9781305077904


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The book is still not available around here yet,But it is the law..:laughing:


You mean this book?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Here in the mass electrical code we must use insulated staples , the regular size are blue and the next size up are red,I've never been called on having two under one staple,He's ball busting IMO.


There is absolutely no logical reason that the blue staple can't hold two cables. :no:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The book is still not available around here yet,But it is the law..:laughing:


Harry how can the book not be available. We have had them for 6 moths or more and we may not even be adopting the code. Do the suppliers not stock them. If not get one online from NFPA with the pdf.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

svh19044 said:


> I have had a couple inspectors tell me this, and it has been implied on manufacturer suggestions plenty of times. It's easier to just throw that circuit on a GFCI breaker and not argue.


Why should you bow the wants of the inspector? Barring local amendments, make him/her cite where it states GFI protection necessary within 3' from the tub/shower. I can understand throwing an extra staple on or something stupid, but allowing him to enforce codes that are not there makes you look bad to the customer and cost you extra money.


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## sparky250 (Aug 28, 2012)

Ive had this situation before. I used a deadfront/faceless GFCI mounted into the switch box, tapped the hot and neutral into the line and fan switch leg black and white into the load.

Far cheaper than a gfci breaker


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparky250 said:


> ..... tapped the hot and neutral into the line and fan switch leg black and white into the load.........


Why protect just the fan and not the light?


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## sparky250 (Aug 28, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Why protect just the fan and not the light?


Well if you really want to WOW the inspector then I guess you can GFCI the light too! Good point.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

sparky250 said:


> Well if you really want to WOW the inspector then I guess you can GFCI the light too! Good point.


I'm thinking it would WOW your boss more as it would be cheaper and faster.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Why protect just the fan and not the light?


Because, picture this: You're an electrician coming home after working 7-12's for a month and it's dark and late and all you want is a nice long hot shower in the dead of winter. Steam in fan trips GFCI and BOOM! The lights go out too. In the blackness you trip and fall on your arse, breaking your hip on the commode. Should the light be GFCI protected?


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

IslandGuy said:


> Because, picture this: You're an electrician coming home after working 7-12's for a month and it's dark and late and all you want is a nice long hot shower in the dead of winter. Steam in fan trips GFCI and BOOM! The lights go out too. In the blackness you trip and fall on your arse, breaking your hip on the commode. Should the light be GFCI protected?


You are speaking about a fan/light combo inside of a shower. Since it's inside of the shower, that means that there is at least 1 other light in the bathroom. THat light/s would still be on and you would be fine and dandy.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

IslandGuy said:


> Because, picture this: You're an electrician coming home after working 7-12's for a month and it's dark and late and all you want is a nice long hot shower in the dead of winter. Steam in fan trips GFCI and BOOM! The lights go out too. In the blackness you trip and fall on your arse, breaking your hip on the commode. Should the light be GFCI protected?



Picture this: You come home after working 7-12's for a month and it's dark and late and all you want is a nice long hot shower in the dead of winter. The raging snowstorm you've been working in all day snaps a pole ½-mile up the road and you have no power at all until 3PM the next day. 



I'm an electrician and always install TWO lights in every bathroom. The fart fan light, and at least one vanity light.

Problem solved. Next?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I think there may also be a mass amendment stating that the gfi is not supposed to take out all the lights in the bathroom. Books out, I have the Handbook. Don't have a copy with the amendments printed in it. I'd have to look at a box of Briscon staples to really see if lists how many 14-2's etc it'll hold. I have a box of reds that I don't think I've touched in years.

Not that I'd lose much sleep over it, but he had a point on the staples:http://www.brisconelectric.com/catalogPages/1_cableStaples.pdf


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

It'd be fairly easy to simply install a non gfci vanity light , along with a gfci protected shower F/L OR rec light

But if you think on it, aid van light might be one of the few non-afci lights then.....

~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Smart box and a dead front will usually solve that problem barring any funky framing. Stack switch is always an option too.


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

You know how many wires I could fit under that staple ? Used to use them on non file jobs like crazy...


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

If the fan is installed above tub/shower it has to be listed for a wet/damp location as well as GFI protected? I can't remember seeing a fan that is not listed for wet/damp location.


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## B-ri (Dec 11, 2013)

electricmanscott said:


> There is absolutely no logical reason that the blue staple can't hold two cables. :no:


100%


But they're not "listed" for it. One of my local inspectors in MA is a stickler for this.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B-ri said:


> 100%
> 
> 
> But they're not "listed" for it. One of my local inspectors in MA is a stickler for this.


He's a moron with f'd up priorities and an inability to use common sense. :whistling2: :laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Maximumbob said:


> If the fan is installed above tub/shower it has to be listed for a wet/damp location as well as GFI protected? I can't remember seeing a fan that is not listed for wet/damp location.



it's a 110.3B thing Bob

it's also a 210.11(C)3 ex thing, which gets one out of a blank face gfci

~CS~


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