# The best advertising



## HARRY304E

mattdolan16 said:


> Ok so if you have read some of my other posts you'll know I'm a new contractor in the business. Just wondering how and where you guys advertise and where you find most successful?
> 
> We are in a generation of technology and obviously the web is a good place to start. I know I'll have to get a website built.
> 
> Elevator ads? I always stare at those when I'm in buildings Downtown. Any sujjestions?


Never sign any contracts for any advertising if you cannot pay them in full for the ad then don't do it.

If they will not bill you so you can write a check then don't do it.


Never give them your credit card #'s they will lock you in and it is a real PITA to get them off your card.

Build your own web site there are a lot of tools on line that will help you do it.


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## B4T

For me.. it has always been the side of my van..

When people see the same design for many years.. they will think of you when the times comes..

If you are one of the guys bidding on the job.. you have a better chance because the customer already "knows you" and that is better than a stranger.. :thumbsup:


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## B W E

B4T said:


> For me.. it has always been the side of my van..
> 
> When people see the same design for many years.. they will think of you when the times comes..
> 
> If you are one of the guys bidding on the job.. you have a better chance because the customer already "knows you" and that is better than a stranger.. :thumbsup:


I don't have anything on my can yet, but I know that works well from what friends have told me.

For me, the only active advertising I do at all is Criagslist. A bunch of guys here think CL is no good, but I've gotten a ton of work and many repeat clients. One of the more recent jobs was a $10,000 all cash project. Considering it's free, and it's something you can do in your down time, it's silly not to. You just have to be good at discerning which calls are legit and which are people just looking for the lowest price.

A lot of people say CL is just for bottom feeders looking for the cheapest trunkslammer. However, where else can you go to find electricians? Nothing as large scale, expansive, and free.


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## 480sparky

There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all marketing strategy. What works for one EC in one market will fail miserably for another elsewhere.

Don't try something and expect overnight miracles. For instance, if you have a Yellow Pages ad come out, don't think it's an automatic failure just because your phone isn't constantly ringing with people saying, "Hey, I just saw your ad in the phone book........."

Commit to a method for at least six months. Track where your customers are coming from. If a method doesn't produce, drop it and try something else. I tried YP for 4 years, and only had one verified customer from it. So it's no longer an option for me.

90% of my work comes from WOM. The rest comes from truck vinyl. YMMV.


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## mattdolan16

Word of mouth is huge forsure. My uncle runs a one man service company repairing appliances in Seattle. He has to turn work down constantly and the only advertising he does is word of
Mouth. He said when he first started though he was paying 3000/mnth for advertising. Back when people used yellow page books a half page ad apparently Costed big money. 

Any idea what it costs google to have your ad come up first. People generally goto google I assume and type in "electrician Vancouver".


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## 480sparky

mattdolan16 said:


> ...........Any idea what it costs google to have your ad come up first. People generally goto google I assume and type in "electrician Vancouver".


It costs Google exactly $0.00. Canadian, of course.

Now, how much would it cost YOU to have your ad come up first? Exactly $0.00. Google doesn't accept payment for SEO rankings. And it's a guessing game on how they do it.


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## mattdolan16

Hmm interesting. Something to look into


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## mattdolan16

Any of you live in a city and try elevator ads?


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## 480sparky

mattdolan16 said:


> Hmm interesting. Something to look into


You can look into it, but Google is rather quiet about how they rank search results. If you manage to crack that nut, you need to forget about your service truck because you'll be able to buy and sell Bill Gates several times over by tomorrow morning.


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## mattdolan16

My dads wife is a computer nut. She owns her own business and has made her ad become first. She said she can do it for me. I will keep you posted as to if it works.


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## knowshorts

My advertising budget for the past 6 years = $0.00. It's all been word of mouth. 

Your results may vary.


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## bobelectric

I still keep my little phonebook listing that still pays for itself.


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## mattdolan16

knowshorts said:


> My advertising budget for the past 6 years = $0.00. It's all been word of mouth.
> 
> Your results may vary.


My uncles too. Nothing is more powerful than word of mouth. When starting though my uncle was paying $36000/yr for advertising. Now he's a one man service guy making $170,000 pay. Not over the top rich but very comfortable and no staff to worry about. Not bad for a guy who does $0 in advertising now.


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## bobelectric

mattdolan16 said:


> My uncles too. Nothing is more powerful than word of mouth. When starting though my uncle was paying $36000/yr for advertising. Now he's a one man service guy making $170,000 pay. Not over the top rich but very comfortable and no staff to worry about. Not bad for a guy who does $0 in advertising now.


 Your uncle is fuller bull


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## mattdolan16

Easy. It's 170,000. I make that now working for someone else. Welcome to the oil rigs. The people upstairs are making money on me


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## 480sparky

mattdolan16 said:


> ....Now he's a one man service guy making $170,000 pay..........


Net or gross?


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## benski

B W E said:


> I don't have anything on my can yet, but I know that works well from what friends have told me.
> 
> For me, the only active advertising I do at all is Criagslist. A bunch of guys here think CL is no good, but I've gotten a ton of work and many repeat clients. One of the more recent jobs was a $10,000 all cash project. Considering it's free, and it's something you can do in your down time, it's silly not to. You just have to be good at discerning which calls are legit and which are people just looking for the lowest price.
> 
> A lot of people say CL is just for bottom feeders looking for the cheapest trunkslammer. However, where else can you go to find electricians? Nothing as large scale, expansive, and free.


I use Craigslist too only because it's free but is by far the worst site to get new customers. Most people that contact me from there are bottomfeeders and just want the cheapest price possible and are delusional at what electricians charge. I'd say 1 out 30 contacts I get from Craigslist is a legit contact. I get idiots that text me at 11:30 at night that say "yo dude i need electrical how much do dat cost"

How else do people find electricians? Ever hear of google?:laughing: Google up "california electrician"


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## jwjrw

benski said:


> I use Craigslist too only because it's free but is by far the worst site to get new customers. Most people that contact me from there are bottomfeeders and just want the cheapest price possible and are delusional at what electricians charge. I'd say 1 out 30 contacts I get from Craigslist is a legit contact. I get idiots that text me at 11:30 at night that say "yo dude i need electrical how much do dat cost"
> 
> How else do people find electricians? Ever hear of google?:laughing: Google up "california electrician"



I knew you were a Craigslist electrician........it all makes sense now....:whistling2:


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## mattdolan16

480sparky said:


> Net or gross?


Not sure. Even if it's gross it's still a comfortable living. He has no worries. I personally want more than that but I also want staff


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## benski

jwjrw said:


> I knew you were a Craigslist electrician........it all makes sense now....:whistling2:


That's funny because not even 2% of my business comes from there. Good try though:thumbsup: Shouldn't you be spamming forums about angieslist how much do they pay you to promote them?:laughing:


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## jwjrw

benski said:


> That's funny because not even 2% of my business comes from there. Good try though:thumbsup: Shouldn't you be spamming forums about angieslist how much do they pay you to promote them?:laughing:





I'm glad having bottom feeders call you for all those estimates is working out for you.


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## jza

480sparky said:


> It costs Google exactly $0.00. Canadian, of course.
> 
> Now, how much would it cost YOU to have your ad come up first? Exactly $0.00. Google doesn't accept payment for SEO rankings. And it's a guessing game on how they do it.


It's not a guessing game, there's no secret about how Google is ranking pages.

You can get your name to show up first, it won't show up in the search results per say but it will show up in the Adsense box.


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## benski

jwjrw said:


> I'm glad having bottom feeders call you for all those estimates is working out for you.


Yep because the other 98% of my business comes from google adwords, my website, facebook, word of mouth, local newspaper etc..

Craigslist takes me 5 minutes to post an ad and it's free.


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## mattdolan16

480sparky said:


> Net or gross?


Not sure. Either way it's a comfortable living for a one man show. Yoir own boss. No worries.


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## dronai

How much was the pay on the oil rigs, per week ? was it too physical ?


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## 480sparky

mattdolan16 said:


> Not sure. Either way it's a comfortable living for a one man show. Yoir own boss. No worries.


Suppose his overhead is $150,00 annually?


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## mattdolan16

dronai said:


> How much was the pay on the oil rigs, per week ? was it too physical ?


It's not so much an oil rig. Here in Canada we have oil sands. We pull oil out of the dirt in the ground. 

Physical?? Haha I do nothing all day. Literally. It's a very slow, well paying gig. It's actually a dream job if I wasn't away from family half the year. Plus working around idiots 24/7 and spending half your life in a dorm room gets tiring. I'm ready for a challenge. It was an interesting 2 years.


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## mattdolan16

dronai said:


> How much was the pay on the oil rigs, per week ? was it too physical ?


The pay differs to how much you work. Last year I made 170k. This year not ao much. I worked a solid 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Pay for that is around 110,000/yr. Not bad for 6 mnths!


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## dronai

mattdolan16 said:


> The pay differs to how much you work. Last year I made 170k. This year not ao much. I worked a solid 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Pay for that is around 110,000/yr. Not bad for 6 mnths!


Why you getting out of that ? Is it really physical ?


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## B W E

benski said:


> I use Craigslist too only because it's free but is by far the worst site to get new customers. Most people that contact me from there are bottomfeeders and just want the cheapest price possible and are delusional at what electricians charge. I'd say 1 out 30 contacts I get from Craigslist is a legit contact. I get idiots that text me at 11:30 at night that say "yo dude i need electrical how much do dat cost"
> 
> How else do people find electricians? Ever hear of google?:laughing: Google up "california electrician"


Some of my best clients are from craigslist. Works very well for me, not for you. I also just got my first job from angies list on Monday. One day job, cost me $738.19 for materials, labor, an permit. Bid the job @ $2505. $125 / hr is what I charge, and this job came in at $220 / hr. I paid zero to be on angies list, and now I've got a new client from it, and will have a positive review on angies list as well as my Facebook page. It worked for me


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## CADPoint

You can look into small weekly or bi-monthly newspapers/advertisers, also rental magazines. Just a classified ad.


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## benski

B W E said:


> Some of my best clients are from craigslist. Works very well for me, *not for you.* I also just got my first job from angies list on Monday. One day job, cost me $738.19 for materials, labor, an permit. Bid the job @ $2505. $125 / hr is what I charge, and this job came in at $220 / hr. I paid zero to be on angies list, and now I've got a new client from it, and will have a positive review on angies list as well as my Facebook page. It worked for me


Craigslist doesn't work for lots of contractors not just me and not just electricians every trade. The legit people on craigslist are a diamond in the rough you just happen to be the few that find the diamonds.

Craigslist is a flea market type site and that's why people go there to buy things dirt cheap that same mentality transfers over to the skilled trades section. It's a one stop shop for all things cheap.


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## dronai

B W E said:


> Some of my best clients are from craigslist. Works very well for me, not for you. I also just got my first job from angies list on Monday. One day job, cost me $738.19 for materials, labor, an permit. Bid the job @ $2505. $125 / hr is what I charge, and this job came in at $220 / hr. I paid zero to be on angies list, and now I've got a new client from it, and will have a positive review on angies list as well as my Facebook page. It worked for me


 
I thought Angies list cost ?
You have to PM me your CL trick. I've never got a call from that. I tried only a couple times after reading your post here. But in my area there's thousands.


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## benski

CADPoint said:


> You can look into small weekly or bi-monthly newspapers/advertisers, also rental magazines. Just a classified ad.


I have a local paper called the Penny Power classifieds all things for sale, rent, and business. It reaches 80,000+ people door steps every week and costs me $25 to place an ad. They are also put in every post office in 4 counties to pick up for free. The best advertising money I spend.


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## jwjrw

benski said:


> Yep because the other 98% of my business comes from google adwords, my website, facebook, word of mouth, local newspaper etc..
> 
> Craigslist takes me 5 minutes to post an ad and it's free.




I'm glad you have 5 minutes to post an ad on CL and all the time it takes to give 30 estimates to people looking for a cheap price. Sounds like your business plan is working. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E

jwjrw said:


> I'm glad you have 5 minutes to post an ad on CL and all the time it takes to give 30 estimates to people looking for a cheap price. Sounds like your business plan is working. :thumbsup:


Does not matter what the add venue is those customers use every type of ad looking for cheep.


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## benski

jwjrw said:


> I'm glad you have 5 minutes to post an ad on CL and all the time it takes to give 30 estimates to people looking for a cheap price. Sounds like your business plan is working. :thumbsup:


Yeah because we all know all 30 estimates are done in 1 day Dude stop crying because I don't use angieslist. If it works for you good but I have no interest in it because my advertising methods are more reliable and more widely used and work for me.

By the way I got another spam email today from good old angie. "hey we have an exciting offer exclusively for you 40% off in the next 48 hours" :laughing:


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## jwjrw

benski said:


> Yeah because we all know all 30 estimates are done in 1 day Dude stop crying because I don't use angieslist. If it works for you good but I have no interest in it because my advertising methods are more reliable and more widely used and work for me.
> 
> By the way I got another spam email today from good old angie. "hey we have an exciting offer exclusively for you 40% off in the next 48 hours" :laughing:




I think you are confused. I don't care how you advertise. I don't have time to give estimates to people wanting cheap. Whatever works for you......:whistling2::whistling2:


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## benski

jwjrw said:


> I think you are confused. I don't care how you advertise. I don't have time to give estimates to people wanting cheap. Whatever works for you......:whistling2::whistling2:


What aren't you grasping? I said like 2% of my business comes from craigslist. Ughhh BWE said he uses Craigslist for most of his business not me.


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## jwjrw

benski said:


> What aren't you grasping? I said like 2% of my business comes from craigslist. Ughhh BWE said he uses Craigslist for most of his business not me.


Since you can't comprehend what I am saying I'll try again....30 estimates to people wanting cheap is 30 estimates you gave that were a waste of time. Even if it was .0000005% of your business time is money and you wasted both.....


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## 19kilosparky984

jwjrw said:


> Since you can't comprehend what I am saying I'll try again....30 estimates to people wanting cheap is 30 estimates you gave that were a waste of time. Even if it was .0000005% of your business time is money and you wasted both.....


Yea comprehension isn't something he is capable of

Sent from your wife's iPad


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## benski

jwjrw said:


> Since you can't comprehend what I am saying I'll try again....30 estimates to people wanting cheap is 30 estimates you gave that were a waste of time. Even if it was .0000005% of your business time is money and you wasted both.....


30 estimates over what time period 1 month, 1 year, 10 years. Without knowing that genius your math holds no value.:thumbsup:


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## benski

19kilosparky984 said:


> Yea comprehension isn't something he is capable of
> 
> Sent from your wife's iPad


Yeah I guess I need help with it. Your still in high school can you help me?


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## 19kilosparky984

benski said:


> Yeah I guess I need help with it. Your still in high school can you help me?


You should run an add for that on craigslist, bottom feeder... :lol:

Sent from your wife's iPad


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## Mr Rewire

Sometimes the best advertising is free.


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## mattdolan16

Anyone tried advertisments with a letter in the mail. Heard they are quite useful in finding work.


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## Mr Rewire

mattdolan16 said:


> Anyone tried advertisments with a letter in the mail. Heard they are quite useful in finding work.


 I have sent flyers to real estate offices ,fire/water restoration companies,and property management companies. What I would do is call and introduce my company and ask for a mailing address to send more info. I then would follow up with an in person visit. We have landed several jobs from it.


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## benski

I also use "bandit" signs on the side of the road and get lots of calls from them. I have one at the end of my driveway that is on a major road that hundreds of thousands of people travel on a week.


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## Mr Rewire

benski said:


> I also use "bandit" signs on the side of the road and get lots of calls from them. I have one at the end of my driveway that is on a major road that hundreds of thousands of people travel on a week.


 top of mind:thumbsup: I put these little magnet stickers everywere the more they are seen the better chance I will be the one they call


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## benski

I also thought about getting a deal with a gas station to offer $1 a gallon gas. Have a huge banner put up over the gas station sign that says "$1 gas courtesy of my electrical company" Then give a call to the local news stations to have them do a story about it. Park your company truck in the gas station too so the news can get it on video.:thumbsup:


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## Mr Rewire

benski said:


> I also thought about getting a deal with a gas station to offer $1 a gallon gas. Have a huge banner put up over the gas station sign that says "$1 gas courtesy of my electrical company" Then give a call to the local news stations to have them do a story about it. Park your company truck in the gas station too so the news can get it on video.:thumbsup:


 that could get expensive for the potential return. Maybe offer a ten dollar gas card from a local station with a smoke detector check/inspection.


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## benski

Mr Rewire said:


> that could get expensive for the potential return. Maybe offer a ten dollar gas card from a local station with a smoke detector check/inspection.


Yeah i'm thinking about it...

Obviously its only for a limited time/vehicles. I would prepay the owner say $5k for example. There are ECs that have TV commercials that can cost 10 times that price.

The way I look at is I would get advertising from the people waiting in line, people driving by, people telling people "they were giving gas away for a buck a gallon", and the news coverage of it. That's A LOT of exposure for a small investment.

I remember the Philly 76ers did that a few years ago offering 76 cents a gallon gas and yes I know they have large amounts of money to do this:laughing:


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## AnthonyClifton

benski said:


> I also thought about getting a deal with a gas station to offer $1 a gallon gas. Have a huge banner put up over the gas station sign that says "$1 gas courtesy of my electrical company" Then give a call to the local news stations to have them do a story about it. Park your company truck in the gas station too so the news can get it on video.:thumbsup:


 

That would be a great way to attract customers with no money.


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## AnthonyClifton

benski said:


> Yeah i'm thinking about it...
> 
> Obviously its only for a limited time/vehicles. I would prepay the owner say $5k for example. There are ECs that have TV commercials that can cost 10 times that price.
> 
> The way I look at is I would get advertising from the people waiting in line, people driving by, people telling people "they were giving gas away for a buck a gallon", and the news coverage of it. That's A LOT of exposure for a small investment.
> 
> I remember the Philly 76ers did that a few years ago offering 76 cents a gallon gas and yes I know they have large amounts of money to do this:laughing:


 


I have been in business in one form or another for well over twenty years and have not spent 5K in advertising in that whole time.


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## mattdolan16

Mr Rewire said:


> Sometimes the best advertising is free.


I have thought of this one. Litter the city with stickers. Not bad at all.


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## mattdolan16

Mr Rewire said:


> I have sent flyers to real estate offices ,fire/water restoration companies,and property management companies. What I would do is call and introduce my company and ask for a mailing address to send more info. I then would follow up with an in person visit. We have landed several jobs from it.


Good idea. I'll jot that down


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## Chris1971

mattdolan16 said:


> Ok so if you have read some of my other posts you'll know I'm a new contractor in the business. Just wondering how and where you guys advertise and where you find most successful?
> 
> We are in a generation of technology and obviously the web is a good place to start. I know I'll have to get a website built.
> 
> Elevator ads? I always stare at those when I'm in buildings Downtown. Any sujjestions?



Build a great customer base and you will get great referrals.


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## Chris1971

mattdolan16 said:


> Anyone tried advertisments with a letter in the mail. Heard they are quite useful in finding work.



I sent out brochures and got several thousand dollars worth of business that way. Worth a try. The key is to have professional looking brochures.


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## Cletis

*Sign*

What about a paper sign stapled to a pole at the exit's of Lowe's and Home Depot with a name and untraceable cell phone number stating very cheap electric work done?


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## Chris1971

Cletis said:


> What about a paper sign stapled to a pole at the exit's of Lowe's and Home Depot with a name and untraceable cell phone number stating very cheap electric work done?



If that works for you then, go for it.:thumbsup:


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## Cletis

*more advertising*

And if you want even more work lurk around in the electrical aisles listening for DIY'rs asking questions on material and how to do things. Especially looking for the ones with their wives along with them. When the sales guy goes to check on something jump in and make your move before he gets back. Something like you better be careful if you don't slip the ***** chank along the chunk in with the chank you might get a reverse introactive chunking and blow up the house. Watch the wives face then slip the guy a quick business card and run off....


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## Electotheresc

Adwords works for us, but it gets costly as you're paying per click, In Sydney, Australia to appear up the top for "Electrician Sydney" you'd be looking at about $18.41 just for one click! But if you can make $25 a click on average, for example, you're still in front.

__________________
Alex

http://www.electriciantotherescue.com.au/


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## electricguy

Electotheresc said:


> Adwords works for us, but it gets costly as you're paying per click, In Sydney, Australia to appear up the top for "Electrician Sydney" you'd be looking at about $18.41 just for one click! But if you can make $25 a click on average, for example, you're still in front.
> 
> __________________
> Alex
> 
> http://www.electriciantotherescue.com.au/


how do people find these 6 year old threads lol,


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## HackWork

Electotheresc said:


> Adwords works for us, but it gets costly as you're paying per click, In Sydney, Australia to appear up the top for "Electrician Sydney" you'd be looking at about $18.41 just for one click! But if you can make $25 a click on average, for example, you're still in front.
> 
> __________________
> Alex
> 
> http://www.electriciantotherescue.com.au/


Hold up a second.

If you are paying $18 per click and only making $25, it's not worth it at all.

There is no such thing as profitable electrical work in which you only make $25. I am hoping you meant $250 or $2,500.


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## Electotheresc

HackWork said:


> Hold up a second.
> 
> If you are paying $18 per click and only making $25, it's not worth it at all.
> 
> There is no such thing as profitable electrical work in which you only make $25. I am hoping you meant $250 or $2,500.


It depends how many clicks you have to get to make a sale, if it takes you 10 clicks to make one say for example $1,000 sale, with a profit margin of $250. It's cost you $180, to make $250.


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## Electotheresc

HackWork said:


> Hold up a second.
> 
> If you are paying $18 per click and only making $25, it's not worth it at all.
> 
> There is no such thing as profitable electrical work in which you only make $25. I am hoping you meant $250 or $2,500.


It depends how many clicks you have to get to make a sale, if it takes you 10 clicks to make one say for example $1,000 sale, with a profit margin of $250. It's cost you $180, to make $250. 

__________________
Alex

http://www.electriciantotherescue.com.au/


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## 3DDesign

This is my 30th year in business. It's a small four man crew.
It's always been word of mouth and referrals.
I don't bid against other contractors. When customers call, I know I have the job. Some ask for a price up front, most don't, but I usually give a verbal estimate before I start.
99% of the jobs have no written contract, it's base on trust.
They know they're getting good quality at a reasonable price.
I'm usually paid the same day the job is completed.
If someone calls and says they are taking bids and going with the lowest price, I tell them they called the wrong electrician.


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## HackWork

3DDesign said:


> This is my 30th year in business. It's a small four man crew.
> It's always been word of mouth and referrals.
> I don't bid against other contractors. When customers call, I know I have the job. Some ask for a price up front, most don't, but I usually give a verbal estimate before I start.
> 99% of the jobs have no written contract, it's base on trust.
> They know they're getting good quality at a reasonable price.
> I'm usually paid the same day the job is completed.
> If someone calls and says they are taking bids and going with the lowest price, I tell them they called the wrong electrician.



Not everyone has enough work from repeat customers and referrals, so they advertise. Some people want to continually expand, so they advertise.

Why does every thread asking about advertising have to draw in people who act like other people have the choice to have enough work from referrals but choose to pay for advertising instead??


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## 3DDesign

HackWork said:


> Not everyone has enough work from repeat customers and referrals, so they advertise. Some people want to continually expand, so they advertise.
> 
> Why does every thread asking about advertising have to draw in people who act like other people have the choice to have enough work from referrals but choose to pay for advertising instead??


If I were going to advertise, there are local magazines here dedicated exclusively to high end subdivisions of around 300 high end homes. These magazines are distributed to every homeowner in those subdivisions free. 
This is something new in our area but is quickly spreading. The magazines are not available to people outside that area.


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## electricguy

3DDesign said:


> If I were going to advertise, there are local magazines here dedicated exclusively to high end subdivisions of around 300 high end homes. These magazines are distributed to every homeowner in those subdivisions free.
> This is something new in our area but is quickly spreading. The magazines are not available to people outside that area.


Until they show up as donated to a doctors waiting room , it is those or 1 year old time magazines


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## DesignerMan

As far as residential goes- I've done well by networking with a lot of local realtors. Many often have contractor luncheons once a month or so and it's a great way to also network with other contractors who may need your services. :thumbsup:


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## DesignerMan

HackWork said:


> Not everyone has enough work from repeat customers and referrals, so they advertise. Some people want to continually expand, so they advertise.
> 
> Why does every thread asking about advertising have to draw in people who act like other people have the choice to have enough work from referrals but choose to pay for advertising instead??


I read that the average home owner only use an electrician once every 7 years. It would take HUGE customer base to continually stay busy off them. You have to add new customers keep busy.


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## 3DDesign

I lost of work has come from joining clubs like the ELKS (BPOE). Many business owners drink in clubs because they don't want to be seen in public drinking. Once they meet you, the rest is easy.
Some other good sources are the Chamber of Commerce and Rotary.

You'll also find groups of business owners that meet for breakfast once a month. Ask your insurance agent, they're usually involved in it. Referrals don't always come from someone you've worked for but from people you've met socially.


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## 3DDesign

3DDesign said:


> I lost of work


I lot of work

Gotta love auto correct


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