# Panel Makeup & Line Side Conductors



## RunningSparky (Feb 9, 2013)

Do you have to keep all three phases on same side of panel?...away from the neutral. Look at pic, C-phase is solo with neutral on left side, phase A & B on right. 

Co-worker says will fail inspection due to eddy currents. I asked for code ref, cannot provide one. I cannot find in book. These are 600s if that makes a difference. Thoughts?...


----------



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

you are totally fine to do it like that
but why not order the panel with the main at the top


----------



## RunningSparky (Feb 9, 2013)

electricalwiz said:


> you are totally fine to do it like that but why not order the panel with the main at the top


Panel Schedule is spec'd with this layout.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

RunningSparky said:


> Panel Schedule is spec'd with this layout.



You should've corrected the error in your submittals.

Look at the wasted 600 kCMIL -- and the extra labor to play with it.

Even bending it 180 degrees, as shown, takes time.

BTW, at least somebody expected the feed to come up and out from an underground raceway.

&&&

I hate 600 kCMIL in copper. { 0.8676 in^2 }

I would've counter proposed paralleled conductors -- still in copper,

... say 4/0 THWN-2. { 0.3237 in^2 X 2 = 0.64474 in^2 }

The difference is { 0.2202 in^2 } times however many feet, which is mighty close to saving 2/0 worth of copper.

The 400 Amp panel can be ordered with double conductor lugs, for sure.

The paralleled 4/0 would certainly fit in the raceway as it was installed -- being noticeably smaller in cross section. There would be no change in the EGC, of course.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

A larger EC can make out by purchasing 3/0 and 4/0 at the spool price - and then cutting his own feeders to length -- using tru-tape to verify -- without any doubt that the cuts are correct.

200 A to 225 A is the sweet spot for commercial panels.


----------



## RunningSparky (Feb 9, 2013)

telsa said:


> You should've corrected the error in your submittals. Look at the wasted 600 kCMIL -- and the extra labor to play with it.


Wayyyyyy above my pay grade. Anyway, that's a 300'feed from 3 stories above...what's six more feet


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

RunningSparky said:


> Wayyyyyy above my pay grade. Anyway, that's a 300'feed from 3 stories above...what's six more feet


600 kCMIL costs a MINT.

Each foot.

300 feet of 2/0 is something that could buy you beer for two weeks, one if you're thirsty.

Coming down from above makes the panel installation look even more inappropriate.

&&

Of course, by the time you're involved, the course of action is committed.

This build will 'work' but the 'look' will be inelegant. 

Everything else in the photo looks well squared away. :thumbsup:


----------



## Stretcher (May 7, 2013)

300.20 states all phase conductors, and where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors shall be grouped together.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Stretcher said:


> 300.20 states all phase conductors, and where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors shall be grouped together.


 Yeah, but it also says arranged to avoid heating. I would argue this arrangement causes no heating so is compliant by default

Thr only time I see inductive heating while doing thermography is when very substantial pieces of steel separate phases: There's nothing on that panelboard to heat.


----------



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Stretcher said:


> 300.20 states all phase conductors, and where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors shall be grouped together.


And they are grouped together, and enter the panel from the same pipe.

The only issue here is the tub is too small(As usual), but that is not the fault of the op..

Welcome to the forum Stretcher.:thumbup:


----------



## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

would not be legal in canada, cant have line conductors in branch circuit section, anyway we have a separator so wires could not pass


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

oliquir said:


> would not be legal in canada, cant have line conductors in branch circuit section, anyway we have a separator so wires could not pass


 I thought that was only true of service panels. All your panels are like that?


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

RunningSparky said:


> Do you have to keep all three phases on same side of panel?...away from the neutral. Look at pic, C-phase is solo with neutral on left side, phase A & B on right.
> 
> Co-worker says will fail inspection due to eddy currents. I asked for code ref, cannot provide one. I cannot find in book. These are 600s if that makes a difference. Thoughts?...
> 
> ...


Could have at least ran the brown on the left side.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Once you get your conductors into the enclosure it's pretty much fair game am I right. I don't see how the Canadians get by with their barrier rule, you're essentially eliminating 1/2 of available conduit entry space and that just sucks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

Big John said:


> I thought that was only true of service panels. All your panels are like that?


You are correct. If this were a sub panel it would be compliant here.


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Once you get your conductors into the enclosure it's pretty much fair game am I right. I don't see how the Canadians get by with their barrier rule, you're essentially eliminating 1/2 of available conduit entry space and that just sucks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are only barriers required in service entry panels.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

What is the reason for the line drawn all the way around the conduits under the panel to the right. 
There is no need to waste so much ammo from your marking utensil.


----------



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

um, marks for the bender?


----------



## RunningSparky (Feb 9, 2013)

walkerj said:


> What is the reason for the line drawn all the way around the conduits under the panel to the right. There is no need to waste so much ammo from your marking utensil.


Never been a fan of sharpies being used on EMT for anything other than a cut line...I'm a pencil guy.


----------



## Knightryder12 (Apr 4, 2013)

RunningSparky said:


> Never been a fan of sharpies being used on EMT for anything other than a cut line...I'm a pencil guy.


And I thought I was the only one who thinks that. Especially in a exposed room and on exposed pipe like that. Nothing worse than seeing that when I go into an electrical room.


----------



## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I would rather the building burn down because of a bad splice than see marks on a conduit. 
Not really but it is up there on my list.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Perc [ dry cleaning fluid ] wipes Sharpie ink off in the blink of an eye.

Maybe a pencil was not to hand at the time ?


----------



## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

So does the rubber on a klein 10-in-1


----------

