# Pictures for my good buddy Hal



## MDShunk

Thought I'd post a picture of a small job where the requirement was to change out a 4-port tap for an 8-port tap. I post these so that Hal can tell me that I had no business doing it. Oh, I also ran out of Gilbert terminators. Shoot me. :laughing:

Before:









After:


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## user4818

You had no business doing this. You're a thief and a liar.


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## B4T

*A message from Hal for the rest of us.....*

Well, first off lets get the terminology right if you want to sound like you know what you are talking about. These are not "ends" or terminations. They are called fittings or connectors. :laughing:

I have no clue what I am talking about and frankly I don't give a dam :smartass:


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## Bob Badger

:no::no::no::no::no:

There will be special place in hell for you Mr Shunk.


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## user4818

At least I know I'm not the only hack around here anymore. :whistling2:


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## Chevyman30571

I would Fire my workers for doing a crappy job like that. That is absolutely horrible.


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## user4818

Chevyman30571 said:


> I would Fire my workers for doing a crappy job like that. That is absolutely horrible.


Marc owns his own company so he would have to fire himself. :laughing:


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## Kletis

Bob Badger said:


> :no::no::no::no::no:
> 
> There will be special place in hell for you Mr Shunk.


 
I will see you there!!


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## MDShunk

Chevyman30571 said:


> I would Fire my workers for doing a crappy job like that. That is absolutely horrible.


What, exactly, is so bad? It's certainly no worse than when I got there. I unbolted a 4-port tap and bolted in an 8-port tap. The cables were already messy. The work that was ordered didn't really include doing anything with the cables.


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## user4818

That level of workmanship is just about right for cable companies. I have never seen them do much better.


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## MDShunk

Peter D said:


> That level of workmanship is just about right for cable companies. I have never seen them do much better.


Yeah, really. It's not like someone's going to fool me into thinking that if they change out a breaker, they re-dress all the conductors in the panel to make the whole thing neat. 

If I'd have had anything to do with this from scratch, it would have been quite different. In the mean time, just go with the flow.


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## user4818

MDShunk said:


> If I'd have had anything to do with this from scratch, it would have been quite different. In the mean time, just go with the flow.


No, you must save the world and make it all perfect. 

But seriously, that's the kind of mentality that I can't stand. Sometimes you don't have the time and/or budget to fix everything. Just go with the flow, as you say.


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## Chevyman30571

Doesnt matter. If I was called out to a job to just replace to a larger splitter I would have taken the time to neaten up all of that crap. I always think of it as if the customer has to do something with the cable than they will see the kind of work that I did. If I did a crap job than I would not expect to be called back for anything else. I have l;earned over the years that when you do things nice neat and clean you always get more business down the road. I wouldnt even know where to start with that. Nothing is marked it is just done poor in my opinion. Although I have seen much worse.


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## MDShunk

Chevyman30571 said:


> Doesnt matter. If I was called out to a job to just replace to a larger splitter I would have taken the time to neaten up all of that crap.


Glad it's working out for you. I've been doing work in this particular building off and on for 15 years. This is the first I've had anything to do with the coax in this particular wiring closet. I did this service call in 5 or 10 minutes, which also had most of the building out of TV, some internet, and some phone during that time. People didn't tolerate that quick interruption very well, so I'd have had a mob scene if I took the time to re-terminate those cables to the appropriate length and dress them up nicely. I sleep perfectly well at night. :thumbsup: I'm not sure most customers know the difference between a neat job and a messy job. I've come to the conclusion that as long as the work looks sufficiently complicated and technical, the customer perceives it as being worth what is charged on the invoice.


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## user4818

MDShunk said:


> I've been doing work in this particular building off and on for 15 years.


I don't understand...you started in the trade when you were 15? :blink:


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## RePhase277

That MC cable is also strapped to the EMT. Should have added some one-holes while you were there. The quad RS cover on the box is also an older style that only held the receptacles with one screw. Should have changed that out to a newer version with three screws per receptacle.


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## Chevyman30571

I have to agree with you on that. When you are working on a building and u take off cables and internet and phones People always get pissed at you. You do have to do things fast. I would have just told them that it needed to be cleaned up to clean up signals.


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## MDShunk

Chevyman30571 said:


> I have to agree with you on that. When you are working on a building and u take off cables and internet and phones People always get pissed at you. You do have to do things fast. I would have just told them that it needed to be cleaned up to clean up signals.


Lied to them? Only to probably charge the same amount as swapping out the tap? Yeah, no thanks. I was already on to the next service call. Time is money. This one was a fixed fee, agreed upon ahead of time, so it was just a quick in-and-out.


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## wildleg

oops wrong hal


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## user4818

MDShunk said:


> Lied to them?


Because you've never been deceptive before, right? :whistling2:


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## MDShunk

Peter D said:


> Because you've never been deceptive before, right? :whistling2:


Only to make money, and not to clean up a mess that's not even mine.


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## user4818

MDShunk said:


> Only to make money, and not to clean up a mess that's not even mine.


A lie is a lie.


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## RePhase277

Peter D said:


> Because you've never been deceptive before, right? :whistling2:


Fudging, smearing, or dodging isn't exactly the same as telling an out right lie. Such as "I had to clean up the cables to improve the signal". That's just a plain, in-your-face naked lie.


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## user4818

InPhase277 said:


> Fudging, smearing, or dodging isn't exactly the same as telling an out right lie. Such as "I had to clean up the cables to improve the signal". That's just a plain, in-your-face naked lie.


Ahh...I love semantics about what constitutes a lie and what doesn't. :laughing:


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## RePhase277

Peter D said:


> Ahh...I love semantics about what constitutes a lie and what doesn't. :laughing:


Well, I've studied the subject in some detail, mostly with the police or the girlfriend. You can either say "I was out with John, Karen, and Chrissy".... Which won't go over so well.... or you can say "I was out with John".. which isn't in any way a lie, but is deceptive.

In the Robert Heinlein novel 'Time Enough for Love', he sums up the best ways to lie:

You can tell the truth, but not all of it, leaving out the details that get you in trouble... or,

Tell the whole truth, but tell it in such a manner that no one would possibly believe it.

GIRLFRIEND: "So, where were you last night?"
YOU: "I was partying in a hot tub with Karen and Chrissy"
GIRLFRIEND: "Yeah, right! You're crazy!"

:thumbsup:


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## hbiss

That's something I would expect a newly trained ladder monkey to be able to do. My question is still why the hell you are doing this instead of the cable company? Those are all cable drops. 

-Hal


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## user4818

hbiss said:


> That's something I would expect a newly trained ladder monkey to be able to do. My question is still why the hell you are doing this instead of the cable company? Those are all cable drops.
> 
> -Hal


Marc empowers himself to do everything. At least that's how he explains it.


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## nolabama

MDShunk said:


> I sleep perfectly well at night. :thumbsup: I'm not sure most customers know the difference between a neat job and a messy job. I've come to the conclusion that as long as the work looks sufficiently complicated and technical, the customer perceives it as being worth what is charged on the invoice.


:thumbsup: 100% agree


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## user4818

nolabama said:


> :thumbsup: 100% agree



Me too. :thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger

Peter D said:


> A lie is a lie.




So my telling my kids that Santa will bring them presents, or that the evil things they might see on the news (floods, fires, etc) can not happen to them is the same as someone lying to the police about a murder they are guilty of?

Interesting ......... 

Pete you know I like ya, but I think your really just full of it on this one. Nothing in this world is that black and white.


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## MDShunk

hbiss said:


> That's something I would expect a newly trained ladder monkey to be able to do.


Not a doubt in my mind. It's certainly straightforward work. I'd bet one of my kids could have done it. 



hbiss said:


> My question is still why the hell you are doing this instead of the cable company? Those are all cable drops.


I remain curious why you care? I mean, you must care, because you've asked several times.

I suppose the real reason why is, "because I can". Nothing more to it than that. I want a small slice of every pie. Makes the day less boring. I ask the questions nobody else asks and, as a result, I tend to get a variety of work nobody else thought was even there to be had.


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## user4818

Bob Badger said:


> So my telling my kids that Santa will bring them presents, or that the evil things they might see on the news (floods, fires, etc) can not happen to them is the same as someone lying to the police about a murder they are guilty of?
> 
> Interesting .........


You feel it's ok to lie to your children? :001_huh: What good can ever come from doing that? 




> Pete you know I like ya, but I think your really just full of it on this one.


Oh well.  That's typically what people say when they hear stuff like this, but I'll get over it. 




> Nothing in this world is that black and white.


Interesting....if someone harmed your wife or one of you daughters, does that still mean nothing in this world is that black and white anymore? Or would you suddenly have some very "black and white" feelings toward the perpetrator and what should happen to him? Seems like a very broad statement to make. 

Did you also realize that by saying "Nothing in this world is that black and white" you made a 100% "black and white" (absolute) declaration? :laughing: If nothing is "black and white" then you cannot absolutely declare that nothing is black and white without contradicting yourself.


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## George Stolz

I've never thought about what a colorless world it would be without some deceit.

Peter, you ever seen the movie "Big Fish"?


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## user4818

George Stolz said:


> I've never thought about what a colorless world it would be without some deceit.
> 
> Peter, you ever seen the movie "Big Fish"?


No, I have not. 

This is the type of thing that will go on ad nauseum. If you don't believe in any kind of absolutes, you will never agree with someone who does. So we can debate this but it will simply go in circles.


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## Bob Badger

Peter D said:


> You feel it's ok to lie to your children?


Yes, I do lie to them, I tell them I can protect them from any harm in the world when really it's a crap shoot. A plane could nose dive on my home tonight but if they asked me that I would say of course not.



> What good can ever come from doing that?


They can sleep soundly and enjoy their childhood. 




> Interesting....if someone harmed your wife or one of you daughters, does that still mean nothing in this world is that black and white anymore? Or would you suddenly have some very "black and white" feelings toward the perpetrator and what should happen to him?


To me personally it would be very black and white, to society as whole no, there would always be more to it then that. 



> Did you also realize that by saying "Nothing in this world is that black and white" you made a 100% "black and white" (absolute) declaration? If nothing is "black and white" then you cannot absolutely declare that nothing is black and white without contradicting yourself.



:laughing::laughing::thumbup:

I will now walk sheepishly into the corner. :whistling2:


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## Lighting Retro

all this over some cabling? Who knew electricians were philosophers too?


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## B4T

Peter thinks global warming is a myth.. pictures are in black and white. 

Less white (Ice) and more black (water) does that count in this discussion? :laughing:


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## RePhase277

Black4Truck said:


> Peter thinks global warming is a myth.. pictures are in black and white.



It's all in what we are talking about; global warming is no myth, yet Global Warming is. One is idea that the average global temperature is increasing, and there really is no doubt about that. Whereas *G*lobal *W*arming is the idea that humans are directly and solely responsible for it. And that is what I think is the myth.


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## B4T

InPhase277 said:


> It's all in what we are talking about; global warming is no myth, yet Global Warming is. One is idea that the average global temperature is increasing, and there really is no doubt about that. Whereas *G*lobal *W*arming is the idea that humans are directly and solely responsible for it. And that is what I think is the myth.


 just look at all the brown **** that is floating around the planet.

All that coal burning can't be good for the environment. :no:

I would rather error on the side that *WE ARE* responsible for global warming, than debating the problem for the next 10 years.


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## RePhase277

Black4Truck said:


> just look at all the brown **** that is floating around the planet.
> 
> All that coal burning can't be good for the environment. :no:
> 
> I would rather error on the side that *WE ARE* responsible for global warming, than debating the problem for the next 10 years.


Don't mis-understand what I'm saying. Of course dumping pollutants into the air can't be good.

The problem with the _assumption_ that we are the responsible party is that we will spend copious amounts of money trying to stop a natural phenomenon, and probably really screw something up.

What we should do instead is not further contribute to it. The mechanics of atmospheric and oceanographic patterns is little understood; we've only been recording data for a little more than 100 years, and the system is billions of years old. We have no idea of the long term cycles the system may go through. Trying to stop it may be a bad idea.

(Not only are electricians philosophers, we are geophysicists too:laughing


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## MDShunk

InPhase277 said:


> The mechanics of atmospheric and oceanographic patterns is little understood; we've only been recording data for a little more than 100 years, and the system is billions of years old. We have no idea of the long term cycles the system may go through. Trying to stop it may be a bad idea.


Actually, we do seem to have pretty good data from the US Navy, some of it dating back to the 1940's, when they took ice core samples from teh frozen north. It seems that the warm periods and the colder periods are part of the normal ebb and tide of the planet. The cycle is just over a very long period. I would add, however, this this is really no excuse to pollute the planet, but I'm not a bit concerned that we caused global warming. I think it's just part of the natural cycle that would have occurred, with or without us.


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## KayJay

What is that RG 6 on the F to pin connector straight thru the line off the RG11, another tap or splitter down stream?
Are you also getting subcontractor work for plant extensions? I know I did that stuff back in the early 90’s for a while when things were very slow. Had to buy special tools and spiral strippers for the .540 hardline, etc. Good times...good times.


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## MDShunk

KayJay said:


> Are you also getting subcontractor work for plant extensions? I know I did that stuff back in the early 90’s for a while when things were very slow. Had to buy special tools and spiral strippers for the .540 hardline, etc. Good times...good times.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]


More or less. There's plenty of work out there to be had. You just have to ask (or, rather, figure out who to ask)


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> Peter thinks global warming is a myth.. pictures are in black and white.


I'm not sure what my exact words were in that thread and I'm sure not going to spend the time to look them up. 

But, since you dragged that one back up again, let me state plainly what I believe: *Man caused* global warming is a myth. Are global temperatures rising? They could be. Do I care? Not really, because I can't do a darned thing to change them if they are. I can no more control the weather than I can control the time the sun rises and sets every day.


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## hbiss

_More or less. There's plenty of work out there to be had. You just have to ask (or, rather, figure out who to ask) _

Back when I was a supervisor for a cable company they hired a couple of electrical contractors as subcontractors to do MDU work because they were desperate. It turned out to be the worst work they have ever seen, so it's not just my opinion. Needless to say they didn't last very long. I can also say that that reputation is pretty much a given in the cable industry, so even if you are willing to do cable work I doubt you will be given the chance unless you can show previous experience. 

-Hal


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## MDShunk

hbiss said:


> Back when I was a supervisor for a cable company they hired a couple of electrical contractors as subcontractors to do MDU work because they were desperate. It turned out to be the worst work they have ever seen, so it's not just my opinion. Needless to say they didn't last very long.


I guess they've been dribbling work my way since 1997, so I must no be doing too badly. You'd faint if you knew how much they pay to change out the tap in my picture. For reference, I got $3400 to run about 50 feet of RG-6 on another job. :laughing:


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## user4818

MDShunk said:


> For reference, I got $3400 to run about 50 feet of RG-6 on another job. :laughing:


Details...we need details. 

Cox does not use EC's for any of their work. They have very specific requirements for their subs and they sure ain't payin' that kind of money to run coax. You must run a good scam.


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## Lighting Retro

*Looks for cable tools*

lol wow


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## KayJay

We did everything… overhead and underground plant extensions, MDU post wires with both interior cove mold and exterior U-guard, house amps, taps, traps even lowly installs… the whole shebang. Never had any gigs or complaints, so even though some of us may be like Stutterin’ Stan… surely we can’t all be just a bunch of worthless retards. :laughing: [or can we]


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## hbiss

_Cox does not use EC's for any of their work. They have very specific requirements for their subs and they sure ain't payin' that kind of money to run coax. You must run a good scam._

My point exactly and it's the same for any other cable company I have ever known or worked for. MD probably has the building managers or owners in his pocket and they are holding the cable company hostage by requiring that only their contractor is allowed to work in their buildings. It's either him or no service. The cable company figures that it's cheaper to put up with it than fight. Am I close?

-Hal


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## Bob Badger

hbiss said:


> My point exactly and it's the same for any other cable company I have ever known or worked for. MD probably has the building managers or owners in his pocket and they are holding the cable company hostage by requiring that only their contractor is allowed to work in their buildings. It's either him or no service. The cable company figures that it's cheaper to put up with it than fight. Am I close?
> 
> -Hal


WOW! I had just figured Marc's customer needed something done and Marc did it. I missed the entire evil conspiracy angle of it, I forgot cable work is so cloak and dagger. :blink: 





:laughing:


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## MDShunk

hbiss said:


> MD probably has the building managers or owners in his pocket and they are holding the cable company hostage by requiring that only their contractor is allowed to work in their buildings. It's either him or no service. The cable company figures that it's cheaper to put up with it than fight. Am I close?


If that were the case, I'd call that "business". :thumbsup:


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## hbiss

_WOW! I had just figured Marc's customer needed something done and Marc did it. I missed the entire evil conspiracy angle of it, I forgot cable work is so cloak and dagger. _

I think what you are forgetting is that Marc's customer has no business with any of this either so he has no business having Marc work on it- unless... 

I dealt with plenty of greedy building owners and management companies who wanted a kickback of some sort or else they wouldn't let the cable company into the building. Most times the company went the legal route, other times it was cheaper to give the building manager free cable or some other "compensation". :whistling2:

If you want to call that good business go right ahead.

-Hal


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## RePhase277

Since when does an electrician have "no business" running, or terminating coax? I can see it the other way 'round, a coax man has no business doing work at 120+ V. But a good electrician knows how to properly terminate coax and cat 5,6,7. In fact electricians probably have neater runs, because cable and phone guys just banjo string cable everywhere and never strap it.


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## 480sparky

InPhase277 said:


> ............ In fact electricians probably have neater runs, because cable and phone guys just banjo string cable everywhere and never strap it.


 
How many 'lo-voltage' guys have never even _heard_ of the NEC, let alone Chapter 8?
In my area, not many, as cable, telephone, data, etc. are not licensed. If they have no license, they feel they don't need to follow any silly 'rules'... just "git-er done!"


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## CFL

InPhase277 said:


> Since when does an electrician have "no business" running, or terminating coax? I can see it the other way 'round, a coax man has no business doing work at 120+ V. But a good electrician knows how to properly terminate coax and cat 5,6,7. In fact electricians probably have neater runs, because cable and phone guys just banjo string cable everywhere and never strap it.


This is true around here. I think it's hilarious to hear someone say an electrician can't do cable, or shouldn't do cable work. I won't let the cable company touch anything inside my house. Obviously I have to let them do their end but if I were allowed, I'd do that too. I hate seeing these jackasses walking around with saggy pants and dreadlocks or dealing with some piece of crap immigrant too good to learn my language.


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## user4818

For the record, I don't think an EC is incapable of doing this kind of work. It's just that the cable companies, at least around here, have wisely realized they don't need highly skilled tradesmen to do their installations, and don't have to pay them as such. I believe they would call that "business." :thumbsup:


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## hbiss

_Since when does an electrician have "no business" running, or terminating coax?_

Certainly an electrician can run coax. Termination is another issue because care must be taken during installation and the proper tools and fittings used. It's not enough to find them on ebay and think that you are doing the job properly. There are some guys who are capable of doing a good job, others have little idea how preparation, proper fitting, installation and proper tools work together. Not saying that even they can't do it right but they either don't want to learn or just don't give a crap. 

_How many 'lo-voltage' guys have never even heard of the NEC, let alone Chapter 8?_
_In my area, not many, as cable, telephone, data, etc. are not licensed. If they have no license, they feel they don't need to follow any silly 'rules'... just "git-er done!" _

You forgot to add that they carry no insurance. You have a valid point and I have absolutely no use for them either. They are the trunkers, handymen, computer geeks, ex Verizon etc. that undercut everybody that runs a legitimate business. Unfortunately licensing won't clean them out because most areas that do license LV contractors rarely enforce the requirement and crack down on unlicensed contractors. It's usually only a revenue generating mechanism. 

_It's just that the cable companies, at least around here, have wisely realized they don't need highly skilled tradesmen to do their installations, and don't have to pay them as such._

_I hate seeing these jackasses walking around with saggy pants and dreadlocks or dealing with some piece of crap immigrant too good to learn my language. _

They are most likely sub-contractors and your system probably doesn't have very high standards for them. They get what they pay for.

In-house employees normally are required to abide by a dress and appearance policy and have formal training and pay grades. 



-Hal


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## B4T

Hal.. use the "QUOTE" button on the bottom right hand corner when trying to make a point. 

It can only help your "image" as someone having a clue :laughing:


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## hbiss

Would you rather this:



Black4Truck said:


> Hal.. use the "QUOTE" button on the bottom right hand corner when trying to make a point.
> 
> It can only help your "image" as someone having a clue :laughing:


Or this:

_use the "QUOTE" button on the bottom right hand corner when trying to make a point... It can only help your "image" as someone having a clue._

Which is easier to read? If you can't figure out that what's in italics is a quote you aren't paying attention to the other posts. It's pretty standard procedure, not all boards will do block quotes.

-Hal


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## TOOL_5150

hbiss said:


> Would you rather this:
> not all boards will do block quotes.
> 
> -Hal


They really need to get with it then... :jester:

~Matt


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## cochise7969

Jules: Fitting or connectors! You know why they call it that? 

Hal: Because of the metric system? 

Jules: Check out the big brain on Hal! You're a smart mf. That's right. The metric system.

That's who Hal made me think about. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE9Qm8mShik


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## steelersman

InPhase277 said:


> we've only been recording data for a little more than 100 years, and the system is billions of years old.


If you are Peter D then you believe that the earth is nowhere near that old. More like 6000-15,000.


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## B4T

steelersman said:


> If you are Peter D then you believe that the earth is nowhere near that old. More like 6000-15,000.


 
I bet he thinks it's flat also :laughing:


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## user4818

steelersman said:


> If you are Peter D then you believe that the earth is nowhere near that old. More like 6000-15,000.


Not quite sure why you had to drag me into this....:blink: 

But ok...what's your point? I assume it's to mock God and all that kind of stuff. Boring. :sleep1:


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> I bet he thinks it's flat also :laughing:


Yes, of course I do. Not only do I think the earth is flat, I think it has flat sides because it's trapezoidal.


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> Yes, of course I do. Not only do I think the earth is flat, I think it has flat sides because it's trapezoidal.


 
trapezoidal.. where did you dig up that word?? :laughing:


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> trapezoidal.. where did you dig up that word?? :laughing:



Because I'm extremely smart and know everything. :smartass:


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## Lighting Retro

ok, officially


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## user4818

Lighting Retro said:


> ok, officially


Get used to it...that's pretty much S.O.P. around here. :laughing:


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