# Instrumentation



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Totally different set of skills, totally different caliber of guy, and totally worth more money.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

What is a dual ticket red seal?


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## Thunder (May 21, 2008)

K2500 said:


> What is a dual ticket red seal?


Oh I guess most of this forum isn't from canada. Red seal is the certification in canada saying you have your hours and school to be a journeyman


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Whatever you gotta do, instrumentation is worth the additional time and schooling. It puts you a notch or five above the run-of-the-mill electricians and lines you up with a specialty that will be much more lucrative.


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## Jmcstevenson (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm also curious. Does anyone here have their dual tickets? I'm curious to what the pay grade difference is, and what new jobs it opens up.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Jmcstevenson said:


> I'm also curious. Does anyone here have their dual tickets? I'm curious to what the pay grade difference is, and what new jobs it opens up.


Even if there was only a moderate pay difference, there are other differences that make specializing in something like instrumentation desirable. Better working conditions, for starters. Also, it nearly assures full and steady employment... something your average run of the mill construction electrician can't bank on.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> ... Also, it nearly assures full and steady employment... something your average run of the mill construction electrician can't bank on.


Bingo. Construction Electricians here in Northern CA are having a hard time finding work, but if you have experience with instrumentation, PLCs and drives, you're golden. A friend f mine went out on his own doing ONLY controls and instrumentation, he has a hard time finding a way to take a vacation because he's in such demand. But the contractor he left, who mainly did new industrial and large commercial construction projects, is teetering on the edge of "early retirement*".


_* in quotes because it's not only a euphemism for bankruptcy when you are a sole proprietorship, but he is 67 years old, hardly what I'd call "early"._


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Last night I talked about specializing, but I'm not sure if I picked the right word or not.

Certainly there can be much success in specializing, but I normally advocate having a skillset that is broad more than specializing. With a broad skillset, you have the option of specializing in one thing for a while, and specializing in another thing for another portion of your career. With a broad skillset, you not only have a plan B, but plans C, D, and E also.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Get the special skills but get good with basic mechanical and electrical stuff too. I know some instrument electricians that spent too much time specializing and now can't install anything and make it look halfway decent to save their lives.


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## Thunder (May 21, 2008)

Thank you for your information all . Ill proally proceed into anothe 4 year apprenticeship. Out of curosity do you know what other types of places besides gas and oil an electrcial/instrumentation mechanic can persue? Perhaps in the city?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

CarlCantelon said:


> Out of curosity do you know what other types of places besides gas and oil an electrcial/instrumentation mechanic can persue? Perhaps in the city?


Chemical, water/waster water treatment, pharmaceutical, HVAC/R, manufacturing and fabrication, electric utility.


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## RobRoy (Aug 6, 2009)

I am an oil/gas plant IET. This was by far the best move in my career choice that I have made. Like somebody posted earlier, I have trouble making time for vacation time now. :drink:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

CarlCantelon said:


> Thank you for your information all . Ill proally proceed into anothe 4 year apprenticeship. Out of curosity do you know what other types of places besides gas and oil an electrcial/instrumentation mechanic can persue? Perhaps in the city?


Any type of facility that performs some physical process or another can utilize instrumentaiton.


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## wil335 (Feb 15, 2011)

CarlCantelon said:


> Thank you for your information all . Ill proally proceed into anothe 4 year apprenticeship. Out of curosity do you know what other types of places besides gas and oil an electrcial/instrumentation mechanic can persue? Perhaps in the city?


Try looking at Independent Power Producers (IPP). These are facilities who just sell power to the utility. Most of the smaller companies run lean and mean and look for Instrument and Electrical Technicians.

I worked as an industrial electrician for 11 years before I went to an IPP and became a I&E Tech. This was a new IPP and, originally, I applied for and got hired as an operator. They were looking for an I&E Tech, and not having instrumentation experience, I felt I had a better chance being hired as a plant operator. They had difficulty hiring an I&E Tech because majority of all industrial facilities in Hawaii had the 2 trades separate. Not being able to fill the position locally and nationally, they convinced me to "take on" the role as I&E Tech. Sending me to instrumentation trainings and having another former instrumentation tech on staff that could pass on some of his knowledge, swayed my decision.

8 years...so far, so good. Just don't get cocky and think you know it all.


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## Bama (Dec 17, 2010)

CarlCantelon said:


> Hi,
> Not sure what I'm about to ask here, but I'm just finishing my 4th year electrical to become a journeyman electrican. Just wanted some information on why people duel ticket there RED SEAL with Instrumentation. Everything possible. How to do it, how much more do you make percentile wise? So far what I understand I have to move to vancouver and start over again 6000 more hours of work and 4 years of school.um why do they want duel tickets over one or other? Any information on everything you can think of will help my desicion.


Check out ISA(international society of automation). I'm part of their student membership to supplement my AAS in industrial electricity/ electronics. They have webinars, conferences, and certification classes. All for a price of course, but definitely something you may be interested in if you're considering instrumentation.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Small divergent side story from about 30 years ago:

My wife had a friend at work and we planned a dinner with her and her husband, she said "You'll like him, he's in the same industry as you. He works as an Instrumentation Engineer at Chevron (California based version of Standard Oil). At dinner we talked shop a little, he was a complete nincompoop. I asked him where he got his training (trying to be polite, but I was very worried about the Chevron plant going up in a fireball some day!). He said he was a Navy Instrument Technician and Chevron hired him right out of the Navy as an Instrumentation Engineer. Then he confided that in the Navy, his job as an "Instrument Technician" was to sit around and watch gauges. If a gauge started to change value, he took his screwdriver, held the blade and used the plastic handle to rap on the gauge lightly to make sure it wasn't sticking. If the value went back to what it had been, he left it alone but if it stayed the same or kept changing, he was to call someone. He had zero training on what the gauges meant!


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## Thunder (May 21, 2008)

JRaef said:


> Small divergent side story from about 30 years ago:
> 
> My wife had a friend at work and we planned a dinner with her and her husband, she said "You'll like him, he's in the same industry as you. He works as an Instrumentation Engineer at Chevron (California based version of Standard Oil). At dinner we talked shop a little, he was a complete nincompoop. I asked him where he got his training (trying to be polite, but I was very worried about the Chevron plant going up in a fireball some day!). He said he was a Navy Instrument Technician and Chevron hired him right out of the Navy as an Instrumentation Engineer. Then he confided that in the Navy, his job as an "Instrument Technician" was to sit around and watch gauges. If a gauge started to change value, he took his screwdriver, held the blade and used the plastic handle to rap on the gauge lightly to make sure it wasn't sticking. If the value went back to what it had been, he left it alone but if it stayed the same or kept changing, he was to call someone. He had zero training on what the gauges meant!


This is someone I do not want to be.


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## Thunder (May 21, 2008)

Bama said:


> Check out ISA(international society of automation). I'm part of their student membership to supplement my AAS in industrial electricity/ electronics. They have webinars, conferences, and certification classes. All for a price of course, but definitely something you may be interested in if you're considering instrumentation.


There seems to be a difference between a Instrumentaion and Controls Technician and a Intrumentation Mechanic/Fitter. There is a program for one and a apprenticeship for the other. I feel that one doesn't give you the advantagea of the duel ticket and wage increases.


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

JRaef said:


> Small divergent side story from about 30 years ago:
> 
> My wife had a friend at work and we planned a dinner with her and her husband, she said "You'll like him, he's in the same industry as you. He works as an Instrumentation Engineer at Chevron (California based version of Standard Oil). At dinner we talked shop a little, he was a complete nincompoop. I asked him where he got his training (trying to be polite, but I was very worried about the Chevron plant going up in a fireball some day!). He said he was a Navy Instrument Technician and Chevron hired him right out of the Navy as an Instrumentation Engineer. Then he confided that in the Navy, his job as an "Instrument Technician" was to sit around and watch gauges. If a gauge started to change value, he took his screwdriver, held the blade and used the plastic handle to rap on the gauge lightly to make sure it wasn't sticking. If the value went back to what it had been, he left it alone but if it stayed the same or kept changing, he was to call someone. He had zero training on what the gauges meant!


 
NOW THIS is my dream job.:thumbup:


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## wil335 (Feb 15, 2011)

CarlCantelon said:


> There seems to be a difference between a Instrumentaion and Controls Technician and a Intrumentation Mechanic/Fitter. There is a program for one and a apprenticeship for the other. I feel that one doesn't give you the advantagea of the duel ticket and wage increases.


I think the Intrumentation Mechanic/fitter are the guys who mount the instruments and run any necessary tubing or lines to these instruments. They may also do work on control valves. I don't think they necessarily calibrate, hook up the wires, or commission the instruments.


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