# California 3 way



## craigdj87 (Oct 11, 2016)

I ran into a California 3 way today. I didn't realize it until I got home and calmed down. I came across one about 5 years ago. Same set up in flex. What was the purpose of them?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

craigdj87 said:


> I ran into a California 3 way today. I didn't realize it until I got home and calmed down. I came across one about 5 years ago. Same set up in flex. What was the purpose of them?


to get a switch to control something


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

craigdj87 said:


> I ran into a California 3 way today. I didn't realize it until I got home and calmed down. I came across one about 5 years ago. Same set up in flex. What was the purpose of them?


No travelers between the switches.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

craigdj87 said:


> I ran into a California 3 way today. I didn't realize it until I got home and calmed down. I came across one about 5 years ago. Same set up in flex. What was the purpose of them?


With the California three way wiring, you can have both constant hot and switched hot on both sides with three wires + N + G. With regular 3-way wiring, you'd need two travelers, a constant hot, and a switched hot return, four wires + N + G. So it saves a wire.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

backstay said:


> No travelers between the switches.


 is there a diagram anywhere ?
i would like to see this


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

I dont see the logic in that wiring.
You still need your neutral, so you would have to get a 4 conductor cable.
Plus, trouble shooting would be a royal pita


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

Almost Retired said:


> is there a diagram anywhere ?
> i would like to see this


@splatz posted a diagram of the switch wiring. Here is a diagram showing the entire setup.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

brodgers said:


> @splatz posted a diagram of the switch wiring. Here is a diagram showing the entire setup.
> View attachment 161295


k, but you still have 4 conductors.
A standard 3 way only needs 3, so where is the advantage?


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

wcord said:


> k, but you still have 4 conductors.
> A standard 3 way only needs 3, so where is the advantage?


According to Wikipedia:


> An alternative system, known as the "California 3-way", or "coast 3-way" connection system allows both switched and unswitched loads to be connected near both switches without running too many additional wires. This is useful in long hallways that may need more than one light to be controlled by the two switches, and which may also have receptacles needing unswitched power as well as the switched lights.


I guess there's your advantage.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

there was also the thing about california code at the time
they required metal flex conduit
and did not allow 4 conductors in that flex unless the fourth was a switch leg


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

brodgers said:


> According to Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> I guess there's your advantage.


so the advantage is being able to save wire if you need a receptacle near the far switch


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

edited


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

wcord said:


> I dont see the logic in that wiring.
> You still need your neutral, so you would have to get a 4 conductor cable.
> Plus, trouble shooting would be a royal pita





wcord said:


> k, but you still have 4 conductors.
> A standard 3 way only needs 3, so where is the advantage?


Picture one switch on the main house, one switch in the detatched garage, switching flood lights on both the house and the garage. With the California wiring, you can lave switched loads in both buildings with one fewer wires.


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

backstay said:


> No travelers between the switches.


Actually I believe that is referred to a Carter 3-way, which is vastly different from a California 3-way and dangerous. It was first used with knob and tube wiring. In a Carter 3-way, the hot and neutral conductors were present at both switches and attached to the traveler terminals. Then a single conductor, connected to the common terminal, was ran from each switch to the light. It was prohibited by the NEC in 1923.

Around here sparkies used it into the 1950s on farms and homes with detached garages as it saved wire when you wanted to switch a light from two buildings. With a detached garage, you could switch the garage lights from either the house or garage and get away with running only three conductors between buildings and have un-switched receptacles in the garage.

On farms I've seen it used to switch the yard light on the pole from either the house or barn. It saves on the amount of overhead conductors that need to be run. Considering that the circuit is fed from both the house and barn panels, you have to make sure to land them on the same phase or else you could send 240 to the light.


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## brodgers (Aug 5, 2007)

Here's an example of a Carter 3-way used in a detached garage situation


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

How bout a Chicago three way?


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Never seen a California 3 way.

But have seen a few Mexican 3 ways.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

LMAOOOOOOOOO
i had one of those in my bedroom in my grandfathers house
except one string went to my bed.
very handy around San Antonio,Tx where scorpions were on the prowl every nite.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Almost Retired said:


> LMAOOOOOOOOO
> i had one of those in my bedroom in my grandfathers house
> except one string went to my bed.
> very handy around San Antonio,Tx where scorpions were on the prowl every nite.


this is another area caseta switches shine now days!


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Majewski said:


> How bout a Chicago three way?


Each conductor is in separate EMT.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

dspiffy said:


> Each conductor is in separate EMT.


LOL


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## DL Mhan (9 mo ago)

craigdj87 said:


> I ran into a California 3 way today. I didn't realize it until I got home and calmed down. I came across one about 5 years ago. Same set up in flex. What was the purpose of them?


Is the California 3 way still allowed by NEC code? If not when was wiring method no longer allowed. Thanks


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