# Short radius benders



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Did you fire him just for that? Hopefully, you documented all his below-company-policy work prior to this. Otherwise, he'd have a good case against you.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Fire him? Seems to me, having him pull a job he made the bends on would have been more beneficial to you both. I mean, at least he was doing something!


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

He may have been doing something BUT from the original post, he would no do what he is told, to me if a guy is told something and he does not follow what he is told then you have every right to fire him.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Did you fire him just for that? Hopefully, you documented all his below-company-policy work prior to this. Otherwise, he'd have a good case against you.


Case for what? As long as your not discriminating you can fire any one for any reason.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

so, doing what you are told is the best criteria? Not in my world. Doing what is needed and doing it right is far more valuable in all lines of work. Helping people understand why "what is right" is right is far more productive than a knee-jerk dismissal.

But then, I also am the son of a soldier, but I joined the Marines. That's a whole different story.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

*" Doing what is needed and doing it right is far more valuable in all lines of work."

*If we are talking code wise I would agree with you Waco, but this was not about code this was about the boss wanting something done a certain way.So I stand by my statement:thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> Case for what? As long as your not discriminating you can fire any one for any reason.


Are the short-radius benders acceptable for use? If so, then he cannot be fired for using them. 

If it's against company policy (which must be a written policy, not just 'told to' him), then his actions must be documented.

Try going to court with nothing more than "Well, Your Honor, I personally don't believe in using this type of tool, but Fred did once, so I fired him."

If nothing else, he'll get unemployment benefits. If the OP had a written policy about the benders, and documented the employees continual use of them, then he has a case.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

Is IL a right to work state? If it is they you need no reason to fire anyone at any time.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jeff000 said:


> Is IL a right to work state? If it is they you need no reason to fire anyone at any time.


Right to work laws mean you don't need to join a union to work. I think you mean _at-will employment_.

FWIW, Illinois is not.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Right to work laws mean you don't need to join a union to work. I think you mean _at-will employment_.
> 
> FWIW, Illinois is not.


Ya thats what I meant. 
I have only loosely heard of both those tearms, and I didnt know right to work laws just meant you didnt need to join a union. So some states you must join a union to work?


But back onto topic, in that case I am curious what the other reasons were.


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

calimurray said:


> Yesterday I was pulling wire at one one the houses he piped and I tell ya it was very hard to pull the wire even at short distances because he decided to use his short radius bender everywhere.
> 
> #1 lesson
> Do not use your short radius bender unless you absolutely have to.


How were you able to pass inspection with all those short radius field bends? 
Just wondering, because those bends are generally quite noticeable and should be relatively easy for an inspector to spot.
I probably have the same Klein short radius bender, but it is really only to be used as a last resort when space is tight and no other option exists, so rarely gets any use. 
It makes a 3” radius bend for 1/2” EMT and a 4” radius bend for 3/4” EMT, so are not NEC compliant bends since Table 2, Chapter 9 calls for a 4” minimum radius bend for 1/2” and 4-1/2” radius bend for 3/4” EMT, like the standard benders make.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Jeff000 said:


> Ya thats what I meant.
> I have only loosely heard of both those tearms, and I didnt know right to work laws just meant you didnt need to join a union. So some states you must join a union to work?
> 
> 
> But back onto topic, in that case I am curious what the other reasons were.


since this seems to be more of a rant thread, I don't feel too bad hijacking it for your education Jeff.

here is a link that shows the right to work states and the states that are not right to work states:Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

In 56% of the states, you can be required to join a union to work at a specific company. In the other 44%, you cannot. 

employment at will is a doctrine which simply means, you can quit or your employer can release you at anytime, for any or no reason, as long as it is not a legally protected reason (race, religion, marital status, and others)


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

"I probably have the same Klein short radius bender, but it is really only to be used as a last resort when space is tight and no other option exists, so rarely gets any use."

Given Table 2, Chapter 9, how is it that your short radius bender gets any use? I gotta say, I've never had an inspector even indicate there was such a thing as Table 2, Chapter 9, but this state doesn't require conduit.

Of course, I disagree with BDB. The best employees learn as they go and good bosses help them learn.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

*"*

*"The best employees learn as they go and good bosses help them learn."

*This is true, but when you tell him more then once and he does not listen it is time to figure from an employers point that it is going to cost you money to try and teach someone that will not listen. So Waco, we can agree to disagree on this one :whistling2:


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*short radius benders EXPOSED WORK ONLY*

The short radius bender was made or designed for plant or factory machine work it was not made for residential work or commercial work meaning ,only exposed machine work around equipment and not to put 4 bends in a run , theres nothing in the code about short radius benders its plane common sense . You use it on[ exposed work ]and no more than two bends, if you dont listen at work and you lose your job TUFF luck thats your problem . But how did the electrical inspector pass it or if not how did you let it go on dont you inspect your guys work before they hang drywall. best to ya you get what you inspect .


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## calimurray (Apr 29, 2007)

Wow you guys really took that to a level I didn't expect! 

As far as the short radius bender is concerned, It is a known fact in our company that we do not use them unless they are absolutely needed every electrician we have with us knows that and will be confronted on excessive use. Not only can you fail inspections it is also very hard to pull wires threw theses pipes.

As far as the notion this was the only reason he was fired absolutely not, he had many other issues that is not tolerated in the company I work for now and any other company I have worked for in the past.

Some other reasons:
1. insubordination
2. not showing up
3. leaving job early before everyones released
4. not finishing the projects complete and telling us there done.
5. making personal calls all day
6. always out smoking
7. caught smoking pot on jobsite
8. fighting with other workers
9. The GC said he didn't want him on any of there jobs
10. Not listening to his superiors

These are some other reasons for his dismissal so if still has a case against us let him bring it on!

I dont know man,I've been fired for several reasons for many reasons even less petty then these offenses. Your trying to tell me that I could sue these companies for not having proper warnings and such, or I could just take it as a lesson learned and seek other employment and correct the reason why I lost that last job.

Why are we even talking about court cases and [email protected] I think it's rediculous that someone would even talk about sueing anybody just get over it dude.

(Although I could see if you you had 30+ years invested in a company and had retirement and benefits and you were suddenly let go without warning That could be my reason to stand and take action to get what is mine. i might get something. but common were talking about something totally different this is the trades and I have seen several guys come and go threw the company doors if you slack off your going to get fired, usually without warning, and if you didnt see it coming then you really are a fool.)


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Looks to me like you have a whole litany of causes other than short radius bends. Makes me wonder why he was still there at all.

Funny thing, I'm pretty old and pretty experienced in managing people and projects, but after I retired and went back into electrical, I was appalled at some of the workers and most of the bosses, but I guess that's a different issue.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

*"I was appalled at some of the workers and most of the bosses, but I guess that's a different issue."*

Waco, we finally found something we can agree on:thumbup:


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

I've been looking for years for a short radius bender, preferably the one that does 1/2 and 3/4 on the same shoe. Where do ya get them?


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Is a short radius bender the same thing as a hickey?


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> Is a short radius bender the same thing as a hickey?


No, if I knew how to post a pic I would :blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

ralpha494 said:


> I've been looking for years for a short radius bender, preferably the one that does 1/2 and 3/4 on the same shoe. Where do ya get them?


Right here.



BDB said:


> No, if I knew how to post a pic I would :blink:


Click here.

Short-radius bender:










Hickey bender:


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> Case for what? As long as your not discriminating you can fire any one for any reason.


You need to show Just Cause.

When he askes why he is getting fired, you say 'just cause....'


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Why would anyone want a short radius?


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

i would put that short radius bender in the same category as tubing cutter: "HAVE TO"


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Why would anyone want a short radius?



I think they make them specifically for Chicago residential electricians.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

Well the hickey bender is for rigid pipe only not used for short radius bends . and the short radius bender is for emt 1/2 and 3/4 , klein has them gardner has them in one combo shoe 1/2&3/4 . we use the hickey for rigid stubb ups in the slab that get hit by other trades driving on the slabs with equipment not looking . but only use the short radius on exposed equipment and then only two bends . take care


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## KayJay (Jan 20, 2008)

waco said:


> "I probably have the same Klein short radius bender, but it is really only to be used as a last resort when space is tight and no other option exists, so rarely gets any use."
> 
> Given Table 2, Chapter 9, how is it that your short radius bender gets any use? I gotta say, I've never had an inspector even indicate there was such a thing as Table 2, Chapter 9, but this state doesn't require conduit.


Just noticed your post,
Well…. since the Wiremold 600B Benfield bender has the exact same radius, just with a modified hook, the Klein short radius combo Benfield bender can still be used for making bends in Wiremold metal raceways. It actually does a nice job with it and doesn’t twist or flatten the back like when trying to use standard EMT benders for this.
Since NEC 386 doesn’t address bends or radius requirements for surface metal raceways, Table 2, Chapter 9 doesn't apply here.
You’re right though, I wouldn’t even consider using this bender on any job for EMT unless it was a dire emergency repair type situation and no other option existed.

Just FYI... I believe Klein stopped making this bender sometime last year, but there are still some left out there in the supply stream, so if you think you might want to get one, now is probably your last chance.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I haven't done any high rise wiring since I left Fort Myers Beach, but back then we used short radius benders frequently when piping in the slabs between floors for the verticle bends into the slab. I don't remember why- I was a fresh green recruit then. Seems to me a standard bender would have worked for this just as well, but that is what we used to do, and I wasn't about to argue with the bosses back then.


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