# 314.27(a)(2)



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

If I am reading that article correctly, you can't use one of those plastic saddle boxes because _the box_ can't support 50lbs. Those types of boxes depend on long wood screws that go thru the box into the joist to hold the weight of the fan/fixture.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

are they rated for 50lb's Hax ? ~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> are they rated for 50lb's Hax ? ~CS~


The box can't support it like the code seems to require. 

The code makes this part clear:

_Boxes shall be required to support a luminaire weighing a minimum of 23
￼kg (50 lb)._


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

How about a steel city #54151










seems i can find everything about them 'cept the weight listings....

~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Is a 2011 change requiring all _'lighting outlet boxes'_ to support 50 lbs
> 
> My question here is what is the popular product ,rated & listed octagon for instance, that is being used to meet this?
> 
> ~CS~


This is rated for 50 pounds










and this


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

So even my keyless fixtures in the basement will require a fan box w/ heavy metal ? The NFPA needs a Tsunami at their next beachfront hotel getaway.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> So even my keyless fixtures in the basement will require a fan box w/ heavy metal ? The NFPA needs a Tsunami at their next beachfront hotel getaway.



314.27(A)(1) exception seems to exclude anything under 6 lbs Doc 

so the basement porkies & smokes would qualify...

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> This is rated for 50 pounds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does T&B have this listing on line Scott?

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> So even my keyless fixtures in the basement will require a fan box w/ heavy metal ?


No, see Scott's post.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Does T&B have this listing on line Scott?
> 
> ~CS~


Not the actual listing but the info can be found here. I think the boxes are marked also which is how I knew in the first place. I was wiring a daycare and I wanted babies and children to burn so I used blue boxes, romex and the service was dome with SE cable. 

http://www.tnb.com/ps/endeca/index.cgi?a=nav&N=601+648+1461+4294955727&Ntt=


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> > Not the actual listing but the info can be found here. I think the boxes are marked also which is how I knew in the first place.
> 
> 
> by golly , it's true....>:thumbsup::thumbsup:
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> 314.27(A)(1) exception seems to exclude anything under 6 lbs Doc
> 
> so the basement porkies & smokes would qualify...
> 
> ~CS~


That is talking about walls, not ceilings.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I stand corrected Hax

but as long as i can use cheeseball blue boxes , instead of expensive steel ones, what do i care?


~CS~


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I thought that by virtue of 314.27 A 1, if the box isn't marked, it's assumed to be able to support 50lbs by virtue of it's UL listing?




> (2011)
> 314.27 Outlet Boxes.
> (A) Boxes at Luminaire or Lampholder Outlets. Outlet boxes or fittings designed for the support of
> luminaires and lampholders, and installed as required by 314.23, shall be permitted to support a
> ...


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> 314.27(A)(1) exception seems to exclude anything under 6 lbs Doc
> 
> so the basement porkies & smokes would qualify...
> 
> ~CS~


How about hallway and bathroom fixtures, pineapples and lightbars.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

wildleg said:


> I thought that by virtue of 314.27 A 1, if the box isn't marked, it's assumed to be able to support 50lbs by virtue of it's UL listing?


anyone have a current white book here?

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> How about hallway and bathroom fixtures, pineapples and lightbars.


then yes, but under 6lbs to my understanding

that said, i can't image anyone changing out a ceiling smoke for a light.....

~CS~


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

I have a 2007 white book. I will see what it says.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Here it is.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)




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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Here is a link to the spec sheet for a raco 125 ( very similar ). It says it is suitable for fixture support as required by section QCIT in the white book.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=125


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

This new code eliminates the use of old work round cut in boxes? Is this what I'm reading ? I come across the situations where we run a SL over kitchen islands and holesaw cut in boxes later during final for pendants for exact location. Will this outlaw this practice ?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Well, you might technically be constrained to the_ 'octagon w/brace'_ Doc

~CS~


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> This new code eliminates the use of old work round cut in boxes? Is this what I'm reading ? I come across the situations where we run a SL over kitchen islands and holesaw cut in boxes later during final for pendants for exact location. Will this outlaw this practice ?


 
As I understand it, none of the old work 8B's are listed for fixture support due to the variable of the surface they are mounted in, for example, a fixture could put too much weight on a plaster and lathe and fall out, while a plywood ceiliing would hold it just fine.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> If I am reading that article correctly, you can't use one of those plastic saddle boxes because the box can't support 50lbs. Those types of boxes depend on long wood screws that go thru the box into the joist to hold the weight of the fan/fixture.


That's laughable. Of course a saddle box, when properly installed, can hold 50#. Saying its no good because the BOX alone can't handle 50# is really reaching for something to bitch about. Nobody will stop using saddle boxes, watch


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

The rule was not new for 2011...it was relocated and reworded, but 50 pound rule was a change for the 2008 code.
It was not really a change as the previous codes required that the box for a ceiling lighting outlet be suitable for the purpose. The listing standard for ceiling outlet boxes intended to support light fixtures has had the 50 pound design requirement for a long time.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I see, thanks Don

so basically any manufacturer of say, octagons, should have them listed for _'fixture support' _@ 50lbs then?

~CS~


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> I see, thanks Don
> 
> so basically any manufacturer of say, octagons, should have them listed for _'fixture support' _@ 50lbs then?
> 
> ~CS~


That is my understanding. If the box is labeled for fixture support, it will meet the 50 pound rule. I think, that in general, that if it has 8-32 screws, the box is fixture rated.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So there's a new code, and i really don't need to go and email all the manufacturers questioning if it's met, because it's been a listing requirement all along, and finally ended up in the nec

I guess i had it backwards then....

~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> That's laughable. Of course a saddle box, when properly installed, can hold 50#. Saying its no good because the BOX alone can't handle 50# is really reaching for something to bitch about. Nobody will stop using saddle boxes, watch


How DARE you??


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