# typical service changeout that I do



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

and these too:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The neutral of the SE cable is kind of sloppy.. you should of given it a few more twists to tighten it up..


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> The neutral of the SE cable is kind of sloppy.. you should of given it a few more twists to tighten it up..



I re-used the existing cable, that's why.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

Is that wire shelf in the working space?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

rexowner said:


> Is that wire shelf in the working space?


nope


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I re-used the existing cable, that's why.


A few twists and the bottom strands tighten right up.. try it next time.. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

You got a double whammy there of dangerous and lethal wiring methods - SEU cable and exposed romex. :yes:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You got a double whammy there of dangerous and lethal wiring methods - SEU cable and exposed romex. :yes:


I know. I have been losing sleep over this lately. I think my license is in jeopardy of being pulled......:laughing:


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

Is it bad lighting, or is it a white or gray wire that isn't re-identified
going into the two-pole on the upper right?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> A few twists and the bottom strands tighten right up.. try it next time.. :thumbsup:


They were kinda brittle so I didn't want to break them all apart...


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Is that somewhere in Mexico? Or el Salvador?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Is that somewhere in Mexico? Or el Salvador?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

rexowner said:


> Is it bad lighting, or is it a white or gray wire that isn't re-identified
> going into the two-pole on the upper right?


Yes it is. I don't remark them. I am used to not having to from when I first started in the trade.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Is that somewhere in Mexico? Or el Salvador?


No it is from my vacation recently to Honduras.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I like the handy box w/ the rx connector used as a chase nipple and means of support . I like that.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> I like the handy box w/ the rx connector used as a chase nipple and means of support . I like that.


How do you know he didn't drill and put sheetmetal screws or a small nut
and bolt behind the lip of the panel, to hold the h-box to the panel? Can't
see it in the pics.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

B4T said:


> The neutral of the SE cable is kind of sloppy.. you should of given it a few more twists to tighten it up..


I prefer EMT:










Sub Panel Feed:


















Maybe if I do a few more, I can start getting permits. The bottom conduit contains the Service Conductors straight through the meter to the utility transformer.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

That receptacle on the side of the can is hacky


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

jrannis said:


> I prefer EMT:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that is a complete abortion.....scary to say the least.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I like the handy box w/ the rx connector used as a chase nipple and means of support . I like that.


I used 2 tappits to mount the box. The romex connector was so the conductors don't get knicked.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

rexowner said:


> How do you know he didn't drill and put sheetmetal screws or a small nut
> and bolt behind the lip of the panel, to hold the h-box to the panel? Can't
> see it in the pics.



He was putting his foot in his mouth.:thumbsup:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

How many hours to do just the panel ?


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

unfinished area of the basement, panel receptacle GFCI protected?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

dronai said:


> How many hours to do just the panel ?


Total time was 3 hours if I remember correctly.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> unfinished area of the basement, panel receptacle GFCI protected?


I was waiting for that one. No.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

steelersman said:


> View attachment 7604
> 
> 
> View attachment 7605
> ...


 

WOW! I bet you ARE fast!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> that is a complete abortion.....scary to say the least.


I think that in 30 years, this is the worst I have ever seen. If anyone would like to us the pics for any reason, please help your self. 
I don't see how any type of ground has been achieved in this house.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> I used 2 tappits to mount the box. The romex connector was so the conductors don't get knicked.


That's what a chase nipple is for. The point of my Mexico comment was this.. That kind if "work" would NEVER fly here.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> That's what a chase nipple is for. The point of my Mexico comment was this.. That kind if "work" would NEVER fly here.


What kind of work?


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

steelersman said:


> I used 2 tappits to mount the box. The romex connector was so the conductors don't get knicked.


 I did the same thing with the romex connector. I took my cutoff wheel and trimmed off the top of the connector, so it looked like a chase nipple.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> What kind of work?


What was shown in your pics. The interpretation of "susceptible to damage" here means if you can see the Romex, it's a no-go. Just dramatically different than how it's done in Cali.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

wow someone else that likes to mount the panel upside down for bottom incoming SE conductors. my old boss wanted that **** mounted normal and have the SE cables get in the way


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> wow someone else that likes to mount the panel upside down for bottom incoming SE conductors. my old boss wanted that **** mounted normal and have the SE cables get in the way


Well there isn't a right side up with these panels.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> What was shown in your pics. The interpretation of "susceptible to damage" here means if you can see the Romex, it's a no-go. Just dramatically different than how it's done in Cali.


You sure were implying that my "work" was bad I presume. I haven't seen a panel done where you can't see the romex. I would tell the ignorant inspectors to go eff themselves if they have a problem with it. And if they won't pass it that way then I simply wouldn't pull anymore permits. I would do all my work un permitted. :thumbsup:

So how would you do the "work" differently in your great state of Cali?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

steelersman said:


> So how would you do the "work" differently in your great state of Cali?


Add 7 uncircumcised hippies dancing around it.


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

We don't have basements in California, so the exposed romex just doesn't look normal to us. Most of the panels are in fact outside. A large custom home or one with a large addition may have a sub panel inside. In that case the romex would be behind drywall. Really, the same conditions would apply to you if the basement was finished, right?


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> You sure were implying that my "work" was bad I presume.
> 
> So how would you do the "work" differently in your great state of Cali?


We just make it look nice.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

egads said:


> We don't have basements in California, so the exposed romex just doesn't look normal to us. Most of the panels are in fact outside. A large custom home or one with a large addition may have a sub panel inside. In that case the romex would be behind drywall. Really, the same conditions would apply to you if the basement was finished, right?


Yeah, basically. But in my area (New England) we have exposed NM cable in just about every unfinished part of the house - basement, garage, tool sheds, outbuildings, etc. There are parts of the country that don't allow this even where they have unfinished areas.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> We just make it look nice.


Most exposed NM cable is made to look nice when it's done by electricians. That's not always the case in older homes that's been hacked over the years by many different people.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Yes it is. I don't remark them. I am used to not having to from when I first started in the trade.


 

Is that in the exceptions somewhere? If your used to it, it's OK?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> We just make it look nice.


How it looks is a matter of opinion. To me it looks nice enough to work. And that's what they paid for. :thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> Is that in the exceptions somewhere? If your used to it, it's OK?



If you opened that panel to add a circuit or "**** around" with an existing circuit, are you not going to understand that the white wire that is hooked up to the breaker is live?


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Code says to do it. Black tape is 1$ a roll... What they used to do back in the day doesn't really matter.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Hippie said:


> Code says to do it. Black tape is 1$ a roll... What they used to do back in the day doesn't really matter.


I understand that, but I don't follow every single code. I actually purposefully break some of the ignorant meaningless ones.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

.....


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Your panel change looks fine. Remember that some people here are legends in their own mind.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Your panel change looks fine. Remember that some people here are legends in their own mind.


WTF?????????


I had not even posted in this thread and you are giving me a hard time. 





:laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> WTF?????????
> 
> 
> I had not even posted in this thread and you are giving me a hard time.
> ...


:laughing: Oh Bob. Someday you'll realize you're just an electrician. :laughing: 

Say, who did you send to North Kingstown S&S yesterday? I was eating at the Wendy's right there and saw the truck pull into the parking lot, but wasn't able to see who got out.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Say, who did you send to North Kingstown S&S yesterday? I was eating at the Wendy's right there and saw the truck pull into the parking lot, but wasn't able to see who got out.


Frenchtown Road, the heck with Wendy's, Walt's is just a couple minutes away. 

No idea, I was on vacation last week.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Frenchtown Road, the heck with Wendy's, Walt's is just a couple minutes away.
> 
> No idea, I was on vacation last week.


I was at Walt's the day before.  

I figured if it was Chugs I would have bothered him for a bit. :laughing:


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

steelersman said:


> If you opened that panel to add a circuit or "**** around" with an existing circuit, are you not going to understand that the white wire that is hooked up to the breaker is live?


I would think HACK


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

sparky970 said:


> I would think HACK



You would think "hack" if the breaker wasn't remarked as a black wire? :001_huh:


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## hooch (Sep 18, 2010)

Is the sue and the Rx coming threw the wall sleeved?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

hooch said:


> Is the sue and the Rx coming threw the wall sleeved?


nope


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

sparky970 said:


> I would think HACK


You are union and wouldn't understand any resi work anyhow would be my best bet.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

hooch said:


> Is the sue and the Rx coming threw the wall sleeved?


They don't need to be sleeved.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Hippie said:


> Code says to do it. Black tape is 1$ a roll... What they used to do back in the day doesn't really matter.


Cheap Jap wrap might be a $1.00 a roll.. I use Scotch 33+.. almost $4.00 a roll and worth every penny.. :thumbup:


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## Rick567 (Mar 3, 2011)

Better yet just color with your sharpie.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

Cheap tape's ok if you're using it to make heads to pull through pipe....in which case it's going in the trash in an hour. It turns to muck over time and has no business on an installation...


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## Eclectic Electric (Jun 18, 2011)

B4T said:


> Cheap Jap wrap might be a $1.00 a roll.. I use Scotch 33+.. almost $4.00 a roll and worth every penny.. :thumbup:


3m 1700 is good tape, not jap wrap, and it costs $1 per roll.


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## Rick567 (Mar 3, 2011)

It's not about union or non union, it's about being a craftsman. In 5 years do you really believe this home owner will look at this and remember how much he paid. He will look at this and think it is kinda sloppy. Take a little more time and bill them and do it in a neat and workman like manner.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Rick567 said:


> It's not about union or non union, it's about being a craftsman. In 5 years do you really believe this home owner will look at this and remember how much he paid. He will look at this and think it is kinda sloppy. Take a little more time and bill them and do it in a neat and workman like manner.


The customer was happy with it. And they should be because it was done in a neat and workmanlike manner IMO. By the way neat and workmanlike is a matter of opinion. :thumbsup:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

If you think that is neat and workmanship like. I would hate to see your work when your in a hurry. I bet your truck is always messy, or your trunk.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> If you think that is neat and workmanship like. I would hate to see your work when your in a hurry. I bet your truck is always messy, or your trunk.


I do all of my jobs in a hurry. I work for myself so why would I want to take my time?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Once again proving my point that so many here are legends in their own mind. Other than the handy box which is a bit hacky, there is nothing wrong with that panel whatsoever.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Other than the handy box which is a bit hacky,



Hahaha yeah I guess I should've splurged and used a Carlon box instead.....:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Hahaha yeah I guess I should've splurged and used a Carlon box instead.....:laughing:


That would have made it _truly_ hack. :thumbsup:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

It appears the wire rack was removed. Why not zip tie the door bell wire to the line set? Wouldn't the H and C water supplies below the panel be a violation? If the neutral was too brittle to make look nice, why wasn't the cable replaced?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> It appears the wire rack was removed. Why not zip tie the door bell wire to the line set? Wouldn't the H and C water supplies below the panel be a violation? If the neutral was too brittle to make look nice, why wasn't the cable replaced?


I put the wire rack back when I was done.

I did end up strapping the chime wire to the line set.

Code article reference please.

It wasn't bad enough that it needed replaced IMO.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

steelersman said:


> I put the wire rack back when I was done.
> 
> I did end up strapping the chime wire to the line set.
> 
> ...


2008 110.26 (f) (1)

(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the
width and depth of the equipment and extending from the
floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to
the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated
to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection
apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical
installation shall be located in this zone.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> 2008 110.26 (f) (1)
> 
> (a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the
> width and depth of the equipment and extending from the
> ...


So is it my fault that the plumbing pipes were already there? Should I be forced to bring the entire home up to current code cycle just for doing a panel change? Better yet, what is the danger in your opinion of having those pipes where they are?


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> So is it my fault that the plumbing pipes were already there? Should I be forced to bring the entire home up to current code cycle just for doing a panel change? Better yet, what is the danger in your opinion of having those pipes where they are?


Your fault they are there? No. Unless you put them there. Your fault for not addressing it for the violation that is is before you agreed to do the work? Yes.

Do you really need the potential danger of copper water lines running through the working space of a panel explained to you???

You missed an opportunity to make more money on this project. Explain to them that you can absolutely do the panel, but you have to get your plumber buddy in there to re-route those water lines. Make money on his cost.

But I understand, you're a one man band, and you don't have time to make it look nice or do it right. No biggie.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

No it's not your fault they are already there. But, it is a violation and water and electricity don't mix. You could have relocated the panel, you could of had your plumber relocate the pipes, or at the minimum, you could have sleeved them. The option you chose, left money on the table.



> It wasn't bad enough that it needed replaced IMO.


As far as this quote goes, with my limited English comprehension skills, what you are saying is *that it is bad*, but not bad enough to fix. So, if it is bad, no matter to what extent, fix it.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Do you really need the potential danger of copper water lines running through the working space of a panel explained to you???


Ok Chicken Little..... you are reaching too far now....:thumbsup:



B W E said:


> You missed an opportunity to make more money on this project. Explain to them that you can absolutely do the panel, but you have to get your plumber buddy in there to re-route those water lines. Make money on his cost.


You assume that the customer had more money or would be willing to spend alot more money (wastefully I might add) just to move some pipes that are not harming a thing or in danger to harm a thing.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> No it's not your fault they are already there. But, it is a violation and water and electricity don't mix. You could have relocated the panel, you could of had your plumber relocate the pipes, or at the minimum, you could have sleeved them. The option you chose, left money on the table.


Sleeving them would not do anything for the code reference you mentioned.



As far as this quote goes, with my limited English comprehension skills, what you are saying is *that it is bad*, but not bad enough to fix. So, if it is bad, no matter to what extent, fix it.[/quote]

Ok let me re-phrase it. What I am saying is that the wire is just fine. The insulation is still intact. The outer jacket is still intact. We will all be dead and gone and that wire will still be functional. :thumbsup:


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Sleeving them would not do anything for the code reference you mentioned.


True, but it would have shown the AHJ that you made a value engineered attempt. 



> Ok let me re-phrase it. What I am saying is that the wire is just fine. The insulation is still intact. The outer jacket is still intact. We will all be dead and gone and that wire will still be functional. :thumbsup:


We are talking about the neutral here. You said in post 11 that it was too brittle. There is no insulation or outer jacket. Did you megger?

The customer just spent a few thousand for a panel change, what's a few hundred more? I'm just saying, you do what ever you want to do, and what ever you want to get away with. I just don't like loosing money.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> We are talking about the neutral here. You said in post 11 that it was too brittle. There is no insulation or outer jacket. Did you megger?


I don't have a megger. Actually, I've never even used a megger. But yes the neutral was a little brittle. But it will function just fine for near eternity.



knowshorts said:


> The customer just spent a few thousand for a panel change.


Whoa whoa whoa don't go jumping to conclusions. I wish i could get a few thousand for 3-4 hours worth of work.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Steeler, You had to know when threw a pic up of a "panel change out" that looked that bad you would be taking some crap. Go find a picture of some of your good work you have done and redeem yourself.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Steeler, You had to know when threw a pic up of a "panel change out" that looked that bad you would be taking some crap. Go find a picture of some of your good work you have done and redeem yourself.


Hahahaha you are right I knew I would get a bunch of jealous chumps to come out of the woodwork. Worked like a charm.....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

B W E said:


> But I understand, you're a one man band, and you don't have time to make it look nice or do it right. No biggie.


Now please if you would explain how the fact that it is a one man or a thirty man will have any relationship as to how or whether or not he will perform to quality standards.

That is total crap, if you would like to pay for my time someday I can take you on a whirlwind tour of total asshat jobs performed by large and dare I say it "organized labor" companies.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Steeler, You had to know when threw a pic up of a "panel change out" that looked that bad you would be taking some crap. Go find a picture of some of your good work you have done and redeem yourself.


Ok maybe this will redeem me:


















:thumbup:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Ok maybe this will redeem me:
> 
> View attachment 7667
> 
> ...


 

No, that is still a terrible job on that panel. At least you were fast.:laughing:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Now please if you would explain how the fact that it is a one man or a thirty man will have any relationship as to how or whether or not he will perform to quality standards.
> 
> That is total crap, if you would like to pay for my time someday I can take you on a whirlwind tour of total asshat jobs performed by large and dare I say it "organized labor" companies.


He said he is a one man shop and does everything in a hurry. That sorry excuse of a panel change riddled with code violations is the fruit of his labor. That pretty much makes my point. In fact, he made it for me. I think he demonstrated that the fact that he could care less about working to standards demanded by the NEC proves the greatest hazard on that jobsite is him.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> He said he is a one man shop and does everything in a hurry. That sorry excuse of a panel change riddled with code violations is the fruit of his labor. That pretty much makes my point. In fact, he made it for me. I think he demonstrated that the fact that he could care less about working to standards demanded by the NEC proves the greatest hazard on that jobsite is him.


Even though you are a jealous hater, I will still offer you my help if you want on helping you down from that high horse.......just let me know if you want help with that......:thumbsup:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Even though you are a jealous hater, I will still offer you my help if you want on helping you down from that high horse.......just let me know if you want help with that......:thumbsup:


Jealous of what? And why would I want help from you? I've seen the kind of work you do. I'm not on a high horse, I was just included in the list of people who read you post and were asked opinions. I think it looks like crap. You gave me permission to critique it. Live with it. Not a high horse, just honest. Sorry.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> He said he is a one man shop and does everything in a hurry. That sorry excuse of a panel change riddled with code violations is the fruit of his labor. That pretty much makes my point. In fact, he made it for me. I think he demonstrated that the fact that he could care less about working to standards demanded by the NEC proves the greatest hazard on that jobsite is him.



You need to get over yourself.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Get over myself? I'm not showing off a turd claiming it's a ruby. Then defending it against logic, common sense, and established national standards. But I need to get over myself..... Ok


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

steelersman said:


> I do all of my jobs i a hurry.


Sorry, but you really have this coming. English please. My four year old can do better at writing a sentence.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

OK, so we have all had service calls like the redeem yourself pictures. How did you fix that receptacle. Let me guess, You cleaned up the terminals and put it back together.
Honestly though. That service is worse to me than hiding J-Boxes in the yard with no way of finding them.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Get over myself? I'm not showing off a turd claiming it's a ruby. Then defending it against logic, common sense, and established national standards. But I need to get over myself..... Ok


What he shows is a very typical service change. Most of mine look like that too, although I wouldn't mount a handy box on the side like that. As for the pipes, they are already there. I run into that situation constantly. Do you know what I do about it? Nothing. :yes:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

B W E said:


> He said he is a one man shop and does everything in a hurry. That sorry excuse of a panel change riddled with code violations is the fruit of his labor. That pretty much makes my point. In fact, he made it for me. I think he demonstrated that the fact that he could care less about working to standards demanded by the NEC proves the greatest hazard on that jobsite is him.


 
I love how the most critical A-holes on here don't post pics of their own stuff

Common Mr California perfect jerkoff lets see your stuff!!!!


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> No, that is still a terrible job on that panel. At least you were fast.:laughing:


 

Steelersman, that wasn't a compliment!:laughing:

Why did you thanks it?


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Peter D said:


> What he shows is a very typical service change. Most of mine look like that too, although I wouldn't mount a handy box on the side like that. As for the pipes, they are already there. I run into that situation constantly. Do you know what I do about it? Nothing. :yes:


Ok, so you do sloppy work as well and routinely disregard NEC requirements. I gotta give you credit, you're a self proclaimed hack, he's still in denial. "Typical" work like that gives us a bad name.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> I love how the most critical A-holes on here don't post pics of their own stuff
> 
> Common Mr California perfect jerkoff lets see your stuff!!!!


Look around genius, ive posted several pics of my work.

Meyers hub with a emt connector, and a landscape lighting transformer mounted inside. Anything else?

Your blatant ignorance followed up with name calling? I'm impressed.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Bwe just post some pics of your worst work. I t will still look better than that service.
If Steelers wasn't a regular poster and posted those pictures we would send him to the handyman website.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Even though you are a jealous hater, I will still offer you my help if you want on helping you down from that high horse.......just let me know if you want help with that......:thumbsup:


 



Thanks for posting on ElectricianTalk.com. The Moderators of this forum would prefer if you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com 

ElectricianTalk.com is designed for electrical industry professionals to discuss issues and topics related to the electrical trades and related industries. Many of our professionals are also members at DIYChatroom.com and are looking forward to assist you with your needs.

Please take a moment to post your question at www.DIYChatroom.com If you're not already a member of DIYChatroom.com you can sign up for a free account by going to http://www.DIYChatroom.com/register.php/

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused. This thread has been closed. 
__________________


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## jason007 (Apr 14, 2007)

doubleoh7 said:


> Thanks for posting on ElectricianTalk.com. The Moderators of this forum would prefer if you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com
> 
> ElectricianTalk.com is designed for electrical industry professionals to discuss issues and topics related to the electrical trades and related industries. Many of our professionals are also members at DIYChatroom.com and are looking forward to assist you with your needs.
> 
> ...




haha


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

What ever you do.. _don't _ use white silicone caulk.. :no::no:


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

B4T said:


> What ever you do.. _don't _use white silicone caulk.. :no::no:


 

Or bury pvc boxes.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> I love how the most critical A-holes on here don't post pics of their own stuff
> 
> Common Mr California perfect jerkoff lets see your stuff!!!!


Most all of my recent work is in the photo gallery on my Facebook page.... Check it out... Search for ben wolf electric.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

doubleoh7 said:


> Thanks for posting on ElectricianTalk.com. The Moderators of this forum would prefer if you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com
> 
> ElectricianTalk.com is designed for electrical industry professionals to discuss issues and topics related to the electrical trades and related industries. Many of our professionals are also members at DIYChatroom.com and are looking forward to assist you with your needs.
> 
> ...


Hey, when I pasted that notice on a thread the mods deleted it? You must be special!!


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Roger123 said:


> Sorry, but you really have this coming. English please. My four year old can do better at writing a sentence.


I corrected it for you. And thanks for pointing that out. But I must say, it's a typo not a poor use of grammar or spelling. There is a difference.:thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Get over myself? I'm not showing off a turd claiming it's a ruby.


Where did I ever say it was a ruby?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B W E said:


> Most all of my recent work is in the photo gallery on my Facebook page.... Check it out... Search for ben wolf electric.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> Steelersman, that wasn't a compliment!:laughing:
> 
> Why did you thanks it?


To show your backwards black azz that I don't care about your opinion....:laughing:


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

steelersman said:


> I corrected it for you. And thanks for pointing that out. But I must say, it's a typo not a poor use of grammar or spelling. There is a difference.:thumbsup:


Sorry, I'm not trying to be critical. My point is we are all just human with some flaws.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Roger123 said:


> Sorry, I'm not trying to be critical. My point is we are all just human with some flaws.


 
Except for this BWE clown

His **** don't stink. just ask him he will tell you


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> Except for this BWE clown
> 
> His **** don't stink. just ask him he will tell you



Well in his defense, he's just a jealous hater. You can't expect much more from those types.:thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

You put the handy box on sideways like that! :laughing:

That's a first for me.. never saw that before!


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> You put the handy box on sideways like that! :laughing:
> 
> That's a first for me.. never saw that before!



Well how else could I mount it, sideways? Duh then the cover won't fit on.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

So, you copy pictures from my Facebook page and post them here why? Anything wrong with the work in the picture you posted?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Steeler, We know that you've given up on quality work so i'll stop on that, but do you not have to bring the grounding up to code. In NE we would have to reground that thing.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

steelersman said:


> Well how else could I mount it, sideways? Duh then the cover won't fit on.


With a 1/2" chase nipple and attach the box to the wall using plastic anchors. Throw a GFCI in for good measure. Sell it for $200. :thumbup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I use an offset nipple and either attach it to the block or to the wood backer that the panel is on. I would rather spend my own money on a 4square box than use a handy box unless it is absolutely necessary.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Steeler, We know that you've given up on quality work so i'll stop on that, but do you not have to bring the grounding up to code. In NE we would have to reground that thing.


reground what? everything is grounded properly.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> With a 1/2" chase nipple and attach the box to the wall using plastic anchors. Throw a GFCI in for good measure. Sell it for $200. :thumbup:


Ok I gotcha now. In my defense, I hardly ever do this. This was one of those spur of the moment things I decided to throw in for the lady as a bonus.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


>


what's with those round mudrings? WTF?


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> what's with those round mudrings? WTF?


Here's the finished product. Those round mud rings are for....gasp....lights!!:thumbup: Any other stupid questions?


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

steelersman said:


> what's with those round mudrings? WTF?


Those are called "square to rounds". We use those a lot by me mostly because we use pipe and all metal boxes. They have two 8-32's to hang mostly light fixtures from.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Ok I gotcha now. In my defense, I hardly ever do this. This was one of those spur of the moment things I decided to throw in for the lady as a bonus.


"Hey lady, lemme do ya a favor....I'll throw in yet another non-compliant piece of electrical hackery for ya... no charge ":thumbup::thumbup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Here's the finished product. Those round mud rings are for....gasp....lights!!:thumbup: Any other stupid questions?


I don't ask stupid ones. So here's another good one for ya....why the hell did you use metal boxes?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> "Hey lady, lemme do ya a favor....I'll throw in yet another non-compliant piece of electrical hackery for ya... no charge ":thumbup::thumbup:


Hahaha you really are agitated aren't ya? :laughing:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> I don't ask stupid ones. So here's another good one for ya....why the hell did you use metal boxes?


What kinda boxes do YOU use for M/C?


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> What kinda boxes do YOU use for M/C?



If I was going to overkill it with MC cable then I would use metal boxes. The picture quality didn't show me that it was MC cable. I thought it was romex.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> If I was going to overkill it with MC cable then I would use metal boxes. The picture quality didn't show me that it was MC cable. I thought it was romex.


So when the client specifically requests M/C cable and you bid and install per that request, thats overkill? You sound a little dumber with each post.

By the way, how's the online dating thing goin, Skins_Fan83?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

steelersman said:


> If I was going to overkill it with MC cable then I would use metal boxes. The picture quality didn't show me that it was MC cable. I thought it was romex.


Oh come on now, you really didn't think that was romex.:no:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

backstay said:


> Oh come on now, you really didn't think that was romex.:no:



Honestly I did assume that it was romex since I saw wooden framing.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I never thought a basic panel change out would inspire such hatred and contempt. :no:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

steelersman said:


> Honestly I did assume that it was romex since I saw wooden framing.


See what I mean about the dumber every post thing?

And change your screen name to Skins-Fan83.... just a hunch....


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I never thought a basic panel change out would inspire such hatred and contempt. :no:


Hahaha especially from a gay dude in Cali...:thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> See what I mean about the dumber every post thing?
> 
> And change your screen name to Skins-Fan83.... just a hunch....


Just because I don't overkill my work like you did to your own bedroom by running MC cable doesn't mean you should worry so much about mine.....:thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B W E said:


> So, you copy pictures from my Facebook page and post them here why?


Why do you think?




B W E said:


> Anything wrong with the work in the picture you posted?


You tell us.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B W E said:


> "Hey lady, lemme do ya a favor....I'll throw in yet another non-compliant piece of electrical hackery for ya... no charge ":thumbup::thumbup:


Please cite the code section violated.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Looks fine. I wouldn't have given a damn if the neutral wasn't twisted to perfection either, and I've mounted boxes to panels like that before it's perfectly fine same with using a fitting as a chase nipple. 

Get it done, put the cover on, profit :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I've mounted boxes to panels like that before it's perfectly fine same with using a fitting as a chase nipple.


I have as well, usually with a 4" square, handy boxes suck. :laughing:


I wish I had a picture of the few T-Stats I have mounted like that to the side of a NEMA 1 combination motor starters. Perfect place for the t-stat controlling the starter. Hell in one case there is a very large transfer switch that I mounted the combination starter too and then I mounted the T-stat to the starter. :thumbsup:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Please cite the code section violated.


Unfinished basement..... Gfi...... Improper connector between box and panel?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I have as well, usually with a 4" square, handy boxes suck.


Yeah, I'm not really a fan of them either.



BBQ said:


> I have as well, usually with a 4" square, handy boxes I wish I had a picture of the few T-Stats I have mounted like that to the side of a NEMA 1 combination motor starters. Perfect place for the t-stat controlling the starter. Hell in one case there is a very large transfer switch that I mounted the combination starter too and then I mounted the T-stat to the starter. :thumbsup:


Lot's of times I nut and bolt stuff like that on then use the all popular snap in bushing for the k/o :laughing:


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

B W E said:


> Unfinished basement..... Gfi...... Improper connector between box and panel?



Unfinished basement..ok that is obvious.

GFI? How can you tell from the pic? There could well be a GFI there for all we can see. (And yes I read where steelersman admitted there wasn't one, but still.....) EDIT: I stand corrected, in the third pic of the new panel it is visibly a standard receptacle. My bad. 

Improper connector? How? What is the hazard? The box is properly secured to the panel with screws, and the connector is protecting the wire from the sharp edges. 

You stilt didn't cite specific Code sections. :whistling2:

And it passed inspection. 

As for how neat it was, I see no issues. It is NOT a work of art by any means, but it is reasonably neat and a huge improvement over the old one. It is NOT in danger of bursting into flames like the old one was. 

If the customer paid for a Cadillac installation then yeah, this one's lacking. But if it was a typical service change at a reasonable price then I see excellent value for what was paid. 

And telling people to search for pics is a cop-out. Find one yourself and add it to the thread as an example of what you feel is the perfect service change.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/some-my-work-24249/


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

nice....


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

steelersman said:


> nice....


The biggest thing I see is that there are no afci's, and to tell you the truth I've noticed this many times in the pictures on this forum, but why is it that I've never heard anyone bitch about that. Some of the biggest bitchers on this forum that are always saying this isnt code and thats not code, pictures show the same violation.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

He's doing a service change, no AFCI's required, unless the jurisdiction he's in has an amendment requiring them.


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> He's doing a service change, no AFCI's required, unless the jurisdiction he's in has an amendment requiring them.


Do you have a code reference because I must have missed that one. I'm not saying your wrong, but I got hit on this once and I would like to know were it says afci's arent required on service upgrades.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

crazy electrician said:


> Do you have a code reference because I must have missed that one. I'm not saying your wrong, but I got hit on this once and I would like to know were it says afci's arent required on service upgrades.


 
Unless it is a local requirment you do not have to install AFCI Breakers just because you are changing the service it's self.

They are only required on circuit modifications and new circuits.

*
210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.​*​​​​_._​_
_*(B) Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications — Dwelling
Units.​*​​​​In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A), where
branch-circuit wiring is modified, replaced, or extended, the
branch circuit shall be protected by one of the following:
(1) A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin of
the branch circuit
(2) A listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI located at the
first receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit​


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

The house functioned just fine all these years without AFCI's, I think it will keep on truckin' just fine without them for another 40 years....


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

steelersman said:


> The house functioned just fine all these years without AFCI's, I think it will keep on truckin' just fine without them for another 40 years....


I totally agree. I hate using them. I really dont feel that they have a place in residential, but code requires them. I'm still curious to know were it say's that they are not required on service upgrades. Would you not consider that changing the origin of the branch cicuit to be a modification of that circuit.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

crazy electrician said:


> I totally agree. I hate using them. I really dont feel that they have a place in residential, but code requires them. I'm still curious to know were it say's that they are not required on service upgrades. Would you not consider that changing the origin of the branch cicuit to be a modification of that circuit.


I see what you're saying and yes I am surprised that they don't make me change the breakers to AFCI's......after all, it's very easy to do.....except for the time I ran into 3 wire homeruns (multi-wire branch circuits) and AFCI's won't work on them so.....


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Harry has got it. All you're doing is putting back what was there, just a different brand.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

crazy electrician said:


> I totally agree. I hate using them. I really dont feel that they have a place in residential, but code requires them. I'm still curious to know were it say's that they are not required on service upgrades. Would you not consider that changing the origin of the branch cicuit to be a modification of that circuit.



If that were the case you would have to completely rewire the whole house every time you change the service.

If you run any new circuits in any of the rooms covered by 210.14 then you need AFCI protection..

Unless it is in a metal raceway..:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

crazy electrician said:


> I totally agree. I hate using them. I really dont feel that they have a place in residential, but code requires them. I'm still curious to know were it say's that they are not required on service upgrades. Would you not consider that changing the origin of the branch cicuit to be a modification of that circuit.


 
This is in our Massachusets Electrical code..



*Rule 3. *Additions or modifications to an existing installation shall be made in accordance with this Code without bringing the re-maining part of the installation into compliance with the requirements of this Code. The installation shall not create a violation of this Code, nor shall it increase the magnitude of an existing violation 


In your state you should have a similar Rule..


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## kalexv12 (Apr 23, 2009)

I_get_shocked said:


> unfinished area of the basement, panel receptacle GFCI protected?


Or single purpose


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Unless it is in a metal raceway..:thumbsup:


You mean the exception letting you run a metal raceway to the first receptacle box with a AFCI receptacle device? 



kalexv12 said:


> Or single purpose


The dedicated receptacle allowances letting you not use a GFCI are pretty much gone from the NEC now, some jurisdictions have amendments that allow sewage pumps not on a GFCI but that's about it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> You mean the exception letting you run a metal raceway to the first receptacle box with a AFCI receptacle device?
> 
> .



Yup..

_
Exception No. 1: If RMC, IMC, EMT, Type MC, or steel
armored Type AC cables meeting the requirements of
250.118 and metal outlet and junction boxes are installed
for the portion of the branch circuit between the branchcircuit
overcurrent device and the first outlet, it shall be
permitted to install an outlet branch-circuit type AFCI at
the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion​of the branch circuit
_


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Only problem is where are these AFCI receptacles? They never materialized on the market.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Only problem is where are these AFCI receptacles? They never materialized on the market.


Have not seen any but January 1,2014 they will be required..


So they better hurry up and invent them..:laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Have not seen any but January 1,2014 they will be required..



No they won't. You could just continue to use the AFCI breakers instead of the receptacle. Just like is done sometimes with GFCI's.


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