# How much to repair this motor?



## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

I own a small motor shop and am trying to get a feel for what others are charging. Hope I'm charging to little! 5 hp single phase compressor duty motor. Needs new start switch and bearings.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

No offense, but unless you know how much it will cost you to operate a business, there's no way to know what to charge for your services.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Had that sort of work done recently on a 3hp, so I guess the price would be pretty darned close. My cost was 130. I asked them to put one of those little potted solid state start relays in it instead of the mechanical switch, if they could fit one in it. I forgot to ask if that's what they actually did or not.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No offense, but unless you know how much it will cost you to operate a business, there's no way to know what to charge for your services.


Can't the man gauge where others are at? :001_huh:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Can't the man gauge where others are at? :001_huh:


A couple phone calls is all it would take.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

480sparky said:


> A couple phone calls is all it would take.


Or, a quick post on an internet forum seems like it works too. 

Phonecalls or an internet post are a really duimb way to set your price, but both are excellent ways to at least see how you might compare... for curiosity's sake.


----------



## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No offense, but unless you know how much it will cost you to operate a business, there's no way to know what to charge for your services.


I am with 480 here (Gulp, did I say that?). What is your labor, burden, and material costs for the job? That is what determines the price. If your pricing seems too high you need to either figure out how to reduce one of those 3 things or close up shop. If it is low you will know by the piles of motors you have to repair. Do quality work at a good price based on those 3 things and you will succed. Don't worry about the other guys.


----------



## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

Zog said:


> Don't worry about the other guys.


If every contractor, motor repair shop, etc. did that, then the smaller business would always be the cheapest. Then we come to internet forums to complain about them cutting everyone else's throat.


----------



## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

*Raising prices*

Basically, I know I'm not making much money. We currently charge 20-50 for the switch and 65 for the labor then new bearings while we have it apart for a total nearly identical to the 3 hp referenced above. Mdshunk, the sinpac switches are usually 150-200 my cost so i doubt if you got one for that price....unless there's another product that does that I am not aware of.


----------



## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

JackBoot said:


> If every contractor, motor repair shop, etc. did that, then the smaller business would always be the cheapest. Then we come to internet forums to complain about them cutting everyone else's throat.


The best run businesses would offer the best services for the money. Cheapest is not usually the best. Some schleep could be blowing this same motor out with air and wiping down the outside and be cheaper. Are they replacing the bearings? Are they using OEM parts or some knockoff parts? It is all about doing it right and for a fair price. 

The good big guys tend to run more efficient by limiting overhead, splitting costs between offices, getting better multipliers from vendors, etc.. But the evil ones figure out how to cut corners or have a slick looking website so people think they are better than they are.


----------



## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

garfield said:


> Basically, I know I'm not making much money. We currently charge 20-50 for the switch and 65 for the labor then new bearings while we have it apart for a total nearly identical to the 3 hp referenced above. Mdshunk, the sinpac switches are usually 150-200 my cost so i doubt if you got one for that price....unless there's another product that does that I am not aware of.


How much labor (hours) do you need to put in a small motor rebuild like this?


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Zog said:


> The best run businesses would offer the best services for the money.


And focus on the part of the market that will appreciate your work and/or just not want to or be able to do it themselves.

When I ran a service shop we did small motor work like you asked about in-house; even on the bigger motors (for us that maxed out at 15hp btw). Usually whatever the motor attached to (pump, transmission, blower) was how we got brought into the job.

Anyway.. short of rewinds (on 10hp and up) which all got sent to a real motor shop just isn't worth it on most smaller motors (5hp?). Smaller motors that need more than basics have to be really special (and expensive) some other way to warrant even breaking them open.


----------



## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

In theory you could split it, diagnose it, put a switch and bearings in it and put it back in 30 minutes. In reality the guy who owns it calls us and the secretary explains the rates and the minimum charge, then he comes in and explains it to the technician......then wants a call back for a quote on the price then sometimes thinks about it and we price a new one then he decides to fix it after we explain the failure......he also may have stopped by to check on it a couple times before we're done. We may have to order parts depending on the situation.


----------



## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

garfield said:


> In theory you could split it, diagnose it, put a switch and bearings in it and put it back in 30 minutes. In reality the guy who owns it calls us and the secretary explains the rates and the minimum charge, then he comes in and explains it to the technician......then wants a call back for a quote on the price then sometimes thinks about it and we price a new one then he decides to fix it after we explain the failure......he also may have stopped by to check on it a couple times before we're done. We may have to order parts depending on the situation.


Then it sounds to me like your pricing is a little low, maybe a 1 hour minumum on the labor, which you should know your labor and burden rates, more than $65/hr I would guess and that is breaking even so you should be billing higher than that for hourly. 

What about testing, you test them before you ship it back right? What testing is done? Do you provide a report?

I don't know much about small motors but I am guessing the parts alone can get close to the cost of new quick. But if you rebuild them right and test them you can argue they are better than new because new motors are not tested at the factory, only batch testing.


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

> In reality the guy who owns it calls... then wants a call back... then sometimes thinks about.. then he decides to fix it after we explain the failure...


You: I'm instituting a new flat rate basic rebuild pricing with an in advance "not to exceed" authorization so we don't have to stop and start 5 times.

Him: what?

You: Bob, how many times have we gone around like this? 
Either you trust my work and trust my honesty or you don't.




garfield said:


> In theory you could split it, diagnose it, put a switch and bearings in it and put it back in 30 minutes.


"just" tell these "regular" customers the price to do all the other will cost a LOT more.

Bob: That 5HP Frame type (X) motor will have a $100 flat rate basic rebuild cost. That gets you a 2 day turn around for work ... if you leave us alone."

If it will need more than that we'll know it right off and either continue under the NTE price you agreed to in advance or I'll call you.

NOTHING ELSE.
(or you'll go broke)


----------



## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

I like it.


----------



## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

Anyone out there with a motor shop that uses the flat rate system?


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

What motor lines are you representing? If you think you can repair everything that comes through the door and make money you are wrong. You will also loose any potential customers if you are charging more for a rebuilt motor than a new motor with a warranty.

Switch and bearings on a 5 Hp motor, you may be better off replacing not repairing. Check your net cost for a new one vs the estimated repair cost. You are going to find out you are wasting precious time estimating repair work. You do all the leg work, then the customer decides to go with a new one or goes to the next motor shop that is a dollar or two less.

I ran a motor shop for a few years so I have some idea about the business. 
Repairing and rewinding motors is expensive and the price for materials have gone up in price. Motors have gotten more efficient and cheaper over the years.

Always look at the new cost before you touch anything that comes in. You may find replacement happens much more than repairing.
The shop I managed did 40% repair vs 60% replacement/new. I would imagine it's 30% - 70% today.

We just checked them at the door. Small motors did not get touched unless they were special. You will learn quickly which ones are which.


----------



## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

*Thanks*

Thank you for all the info. It's been very helpful. WEG, Worldwide and Leeson are probably 75% of the sales. We just price what they need with a couple different suppliers and let them pick.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*How much to repair*

A post awhile back said that a washing machine service tech expected , I believe, $150.00 per hour plus parts, which were always marked up a lot...and NEW. As others have said, you have to know your costs and then pick your poison. Good luck. It is rough out there. If I were hungry, a little would be better than nothing, but you have to find your place in your particular marketplace.


----------



## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

I was thinking what John said about replace vs. repair when the three horsepower was being discussed earlier. The shops I have delt with in the past would replace a three horse, unless it was special in some way, for a long time now . I would not doubt that economics have moved this up to the five horse range now. 
Don't just tell them to replace it when they bring it in, ask for the business on the replacement. You can get the business most of the time if you just ask for it.


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> A post awhile back said that a washing machine service tech expected , I believe, $150.00 per hour plus parts, which were always marked up a lot...and NEW....
> 
> ...but you have to find your place in your particular marketplace.


If having the bench service available is what gets you called (vs another shop) and that gives you the opportunity to sell the new motors that make better economic sense in most instances... then that's a good thing.

But to then also expect the bench service work to do more than break even as a part of the whole business's overhead... might be asking too much of it.


----------



## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Always look at the new cost before you touch anything that comes in. You may find replacement happens much more than repairing.
> The shop I managed did 40% repair vs 60% replacement/new. I would imagine it's 30% - 70% today.
> 
> We just checked them at the door. Small motors did not get touched unless they were special. You will learn quickly which ones are which.



We will check the motors for ground at the door, if it reads to the case right off the bat(on small non-specialty motors), we give them a replacement motor price. If its an obsolete frame, large hp, or hard to get and expensive we will repair. 

Once the motor hits the bench its an automatic $45. Then we do repairs hourly, bearings, start switches, rotating switches, start/run capacitors, start relays, and complete re-winding on larger motors usually 50hp and up.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

garfield said:


> Mdshunk, the sinpac switches are usually 150-200 my cost so i doubt if you got one for that price....unless there's another product that does that I am not aware of.


Garfield, I checked my bill, and I did get a solid state starter. They put in something called a "MacroStart" for $45


----------

