# Conduit in block



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

sparkysteve said:


> I How long do you guys usually cut your pieces of pipe for in the wall?


About 9' long




sparkysteve said:


> Any other tips or tricks? Thanks


Don't piss of the blockheads with 9' nipples :laughing:


Seriously, no more than 3 - 4'...the blockheads have to lift the pipe over your stub....if they prefer it a bit longer/shorter they'll let you know.

Keep a coupling (or two) handy at ALL times that is covered on one end w/duct tape or similar to keep loose/falling cement out of the pipe.

A cup of coffee/cold drink goes a long way with men in the trenches:thumbsup:


----------



## sparkysteve (Jan 23, 2007)

9' might make them angry. Brickies are kind of a grumpy bunch anyway. I've just only done it once or twice and wondered if there was anything I didn't know. I know of some guys who get picky and only cut pipe in lengths that are multiples of 8 so they can bend and cut a buch of offsets and 90's and always have them come out in the bottom of a block.


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

sparkysteve said:


> I'm starting a job Monday roughing-in conduit stubs in 8" block walls. I'm mostly a residential guy with some comercial experience and haven't done much work in masonry walls. I've done plenty of pipe running/bending, just not in walls. How long do you guys usually cut your pieces of pipe for in the wall? Any other tips or tricks? Thanks


I'm assuming these are homeruns of conduit to be under a slab that then are to turn up inside the web of the CMU? To then connect to a J-box? For recepticle/switch boxes etc? 

If so... you better plan to be there when that first course is laid and have a sample box with a stub of conduit on it for each mason to use as a gage for setback depth and so the conduit lines up with the webs (especially for the lower boxes).

(Oh man, do I ever hope you did your conduit layout from the same plans the masons have.)


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

I'd say 40" is good and you will have to be there the whole time. to be sure it is done right


----------



## sparkysteve (Jan 23, 2007)

Nothing is run underground. Everything is getting stubbed up into the ceiling.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Try and get all your pieces pre cut and ready to go if possible, if you know how high your ceiling is it's not to tough and be ready for the brickies to not like you very much. And make sure you have 1.5 and 2" mud rings if your using 4's boxes.


----------



## aksparky (Dec 1, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> Try and get all your pieces pre cut and ready to go if possible, if you know how high your ceiling is it's not to tough and be ready for the brickies to not like you very much. And make sure you have 1.5 and 2" mud rings if your using 4's boxes.


Good advice Bkessler, ceiling height is a good thing to know in every area youll be stubbing into. I also like to have my grounding pigtails screwed into the boxes before they are installed (tough to get in after boxes are sealed in concrete). I also find it helpful to duct tape the mounting holes in the back of the boxes to prevent concrete from running in them or the conduits in the box. Also some bailing wire I found can come in handy keeping the boxes flush with the concrete, just run a piece of wire through the mounting holes in the mudrings and slide a piece of wood in between the block and the wire to hold it out flush. It might not be a bad idea to get a peak at the mechanical drawings( tough to extend your pipe when its behind a duct). And I have found you have to always be present when the blockies are there laying or could be big trouble.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Make up your masonary boxes ahead of time.*

*Put a ground pigtail in them NOW. Much easier than later.*

Duct tape the opening to keep out mud.

The shorter you make them, the happier the masons will be. They usually dont complain about 40-48 inches.

Lots of standing around then hauling ass. They DON'T like to wait so stay on top. Piss em off and mortar will somehow find it's way into your conduit.

Bring doughnuts and beer or burritos and cerveza depending on your location.


----------



## Pierre Belarge (Feb 3, 2007)

All good advice.
I worked with brickies and the best advice I can give it to be prepared...they do not wait. Try to make an attempt at friendship, it can only help.


----------



## Joe Momma (Jan 23, 2007)

Duct tape every coupling, connector and box.
I like 2 foot lengths to keep them happy and to keep me busy in the mean time.
Have your boxes premade with pigtails and tape, and stubs premade with coupling and tape (if they have to wait on you they won't like you)
The above tip for tie wire and piece of wood to keep boxes flush is a very good one.
And also, 'bond beams' are the ideal place for lateral runs, but the inspector will probably not like it, so keep the brickies informed on where your stuff needs to be and they'll set bond beam blocks wherever you need them(they prefer to use the pre-notched blocks rather than waiting on the guy below to cut custom blocks, just another 'slowing them down' issue)


----------



## sparkysteve (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks guys. It is defititely boredom and action. We even had a rain day today. So far so good.


----------



## dominician (Oct 1, 2009)

what does 460/60/3 mean is it 60amps or 60 htz


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

dominician said:


> what does 460/60/3 mean is it 60amps or 60 htz


This is the second time you have asked this exact same question. stop it

~Matt


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I used to take em all out to the bar once in a while if I had to work with any mason company on a repeat basis. Soon they were assisting me so well I didn't have to stay on the job. Wiskey was cheaper back then.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

It's been a long time since I did any work like this, but I remember working alongside of the block masons. I was setting boxes from slab stubs and running straight up from stubs. The key was to be there the whole time. They pretty much worked around me. I installed a conduit or box, they blocked around it. Never had any problems with them.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

If you have a lot of drops on a day when there are multiple block layers working, another handy thing to have around is a Greenlee hot box. Keep some sticks in there at various lengths inserted rolling around and pull and run as required.


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

...and make sure your couplings are wrench tight; don't use the screwtype either. Nothing worse than fishing into a wall and realizing your pipe came undone.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> ...and make sure your couplings are wrench tight; don't use the screwtype either. Nothing worse than fishing into a wall and realizing your pipe came undone.


Duct tape does what a screw driver or wrench cannot :thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Best advice I can give....... plan at least a day in advance. 

If you show up at 7 AM and start looking at the plans, assembling boxes, cutting sticks of pipe, trying to figure out what to do where...... and _then_ head out to the scaffold, you're already too late.... the brickies will already be 5 or 6 courses up and are ready to hop up. Do all this stuff the day before. Have everthing preassembled and ready to go. Have extra boxes and pipe and fittings handy so if something gets destroyed, you can just turn around and replace it with no pause in the work flow.

Always put your ground tails in the boxes before heading out to the scaffold. If you wait until you pull wires, you'll never get them threaded in.

Many times, the first course of block is already laid, so they can just start piling one on top of two and two on top of one. And it is common for this first course to end up below the slab when it's poured. So if this is the case, you can make whatever marks you want on that course. Forget using sharpies....... get some crayons.

ALWAYS try to plan where your boxes go so they're right next to a mortar joint. Brickies truly hate cutting boxes in in the middle of a CMU. Also, cut your conduit to the correct length so it stubs out at a joint as well. This way, whoever lays that block can just 'notch' it with their hammer.

If you've got various heights of boxes to work with, take some time to cut the first stick of pipe to a specific length so once the box is set, all the pipes are the same height above the current course.

A cordless sawzall is almost a necessity if it's a large job. Take a short piece of #4 solid bare and make an S-hook so you can hang it somewhere handy.

The scaffold belongs to the brickies, and it's their 'turf'. Tread lightly while you're there. Stay out of the way, but keep a close eye on their progress. Be ready to step up when they need you to attach another stick of pipe or set a box.

I know I'll catch some h-e-double toothpicks for this, but if you're just standing around watching, don't hesitate to help them out if it is appropriate. I don't mind getting someone a bucket of mud if their laborer is tied up somewhere else, or handing them a level that's just out of their reach.

Brickies are a different breed. Make 'em happy, and the job goes as slick as snot on a doorknob. Tick 'em off, and you'll be miserable, even long after they have taken their towers down and moved on....... if you get my drift.





A dozen doughnuts once in a while goes a long way as well.


----------



## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

dominician said:


> what does 460/60/3 mean is it 60amps or 60 htz


I get 2.555555:laughing:


----------



## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

Again 480 is on the money. I use 30" stubs and duct tape. Some brickies will put the stub on for you, just leave them the stubs and an old screwdriver. But you need to make friends first, get them coffee and donuts once in a while. I have done a few jobs where you had to use GRC in the block. That was a real PITA.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I think the job is done by now :laughing:


The 460/461 guy bumped up a thread from Jan 08 :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

One other thing: When setting boxes or running a pipe up near doors, windows and other openings, check the prints to see how far out the iron beams that are set at the top of the openings will extend.

*Nothing* sucks more than being told your conduit can't continue up because you didn't offset it to clear the beam.

Here's a prime example:










If I had gone straight up with the pipe from the switch box, I would have run smack into the beam. Offest the pipe as soon as you can.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Offest the pipe as soon as you can.


Or move the box over


----------



## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> One other thing: When setting boxes or running a pipe up near doors, windows and other openings, check the prints to see how far out the iron beams that are set at the top of the openings will extend.
> 
> *Nothing* sucks more than being told your conduit can't continue up because you didn't offset it to clear the beam.
> 
> ...


 
I think the beam is called a lintel:whistling2:

Another thing to use are 4" square boxes and 1 1/2" mud rings. The 4 square fits nicly in the void of the block, and the ring will come out at the right depth


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Another thing to use are 4" square boxes and 1 1/2" mud rings. The 4 square fits nicly in the void of the block, and the ring will come out at the right depth


I always use masonry boxes. I feel they "fit" better/more securely in the block.


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

We always would have a apprentice stay with the brickies, keep feeding them 36" sticks as the wall goes up.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

drsparky said:


> We always would have a apprentice stay with the brickies, keep feeding them 36" sticks as the wall goes up.


What do you do with the 12" scraps?


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

480sparky said:


> What do you do with the 12" scraps?


I should have wrote 32" to keep the connectors at the same level with each course. I throw away the extra.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

drsparky said:


> I should have wrote 32" to keep the connectors at the same level with each course. I throw away the extra.


So you toss *20%* of your pipe away?:001_huh:


----------



## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

take a bandsaw and cut into 40' pieces. no waste.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

paul d. said:


> take a bandsaw and cut into 40' pieces. no waste.


Then the brickies start bitchin. 30" for me.


----------



## ralph (Apr 6, 2008)

480 is right. Stay 2 steps ahead of yourself.
Most brickies like beer.

Double check where and how many boxes your going to need.It,s no fun missing one.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

paul d. said:


> take a bandsaw and cut into 40' pieces. no waste.


40 foot pieces would sure piss em off.

~Matt


----------



## Shaffer87 (Feb 11, 2009)

-Duct tape sluged walls only; not every box.

-Keep 10 of every type of box you will need with 40 inch peices of pipe on them.

-Do not count on the brickies to remember anything you have told them; I cannot believe some of these guys make $25-$30 an hour.

-Study the print in your spare time, make plans for the future.

-Keep friendly relations with the masons, they can save you from headaches.

-Make sure your boxes get seated flush and are fully supported.


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Shaffer87 said:


> -Duct tape sluged walls only; not every box.
> 
> -Keep 10 of every type of box you will need with 40 inch peices of pipe on them.
> 
> ...


...making sure mud/block scrap is in the box hole for support....a decent mason here will make $16-18.


----------



## Shaffer87 (Feb 11, 2009)

We have a few companys around here that pay foreman 30 and experienced help gets about 25. Maybe I should have been a mason...  I wonder if that is possible because Jose only makes 10 and works like he makes 20?


----------



## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

TOOL_5150 said:


> 40 foot pieces would sure piss em off.
> 
> ~Matt


 oops. musta meant 40 inches.:thumbsup:


----------



## Bob Dalburg (Oct 5, 2009)

Remember,they can screw you anytime they want if you give them a reason.
Have boxes ready,know where they go,if you screw up, buy them coffie at break
time,and they will work with you to correct the problem.


----------

