# motor starter



## aerickson1889 (Nov 20, 2012)

Hey guys, Im a residential electrician so I dont work on motors that often but I need some advice. Doing work on a farm(no 3 phase available so dont ask) and customer needs a motor hooked up for a pump. It is a 7.5hp single phase 33aFlc. My only question has to do with the starter. We are controlling it remotely and im just pricing out a starter. I got a quote from eecol for 550 bucks for starter which includes contactor(120vcoil), overloads and enclosure with reset button. Is this normal? I have bought contactors before and they were like 60 bucks for the same size(40amp). Is a starter not just a contactor with some overloads? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks fellas


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

aerickson1889 said:


> Hey guys, Im a residential electrician so I dont work on motors that often but I need some advice. Doing work on a farm(no 3 phase available so dont ask) and customer needs a motor hooked up for a pump. It is a 7.5hp single phase 33aFlc. My only question has to do with the starter. We are controlling it remotely and im just pricing out a starter. I got a quote from eecol for 550 bucks for starter which includes contactor(120vcoil), overloads and enclosure with reset button. Is this normal? I have bought contactors before and they were like 60 bucks for the same size(40amp). Is a starter not just a contactor with some overloads? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks fellas


See if you can post the catalog Number.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

For that size enclosed NEMA starter, that's probably about what you're gonna pay. They're not cheap.

If you shop around, you could find an IEC version that might be a hundred bucks cheaper, but it's also less sturdy.

Besides which, $60 for a 40A contactor is a steal of a price, unless it was a piece of junk. So I wouldn't base anything off that.


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## aerickson1889 (Nov 20, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> See if you can post the catalog Number.



Sorry, I dont think I can find it till tomorrow now. Basically im just wondering what other guys have paid and if this is normal. I've worked with them before as an apprentice but I never knew the price.... now that im on my own im getting a few surprises haha.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

aerickson1889 said:


> Sorry, I dont think I can find it till tomorrow now. Basically im just wondering what other guys have paid and if this is normal. I've worked with them before as an apprentice but I never knew the price.... now that im on my own im getting a few surprises haha.


 


There are 3 main "grades" of contactors:

*DP*, (technically stands for Definite Purpose, but I say it stands for Don't Purchase) are the cheapest junk you can buy
*IEC*, (International Electrotechnical Commission) meaning of European design
*NEMA*, (National Electrical Manufacturing Assoc.) meaning of North American design (national, as in USA, but Canada uses the same standard, called EEMAC for Elec. Equip. Mfr. Assoc. of Canada).
NEMA contactors are designed to NOT need to be engineered into an application, it can take the WORST thing you can throw at it within the HP ranges it is designed for. Engineers here are in ivory towers and are paid too much to worry about applying a contactor, so the contactor is over designed and they expect the electrician to just wire it up and forget it.

IEC contactors are designed to be ENGINEERED into an application. You have to know what it is controlling, as in the kW rating, power factor, locked rotor current etc., then how often it is going to start and stop and how many operations you want it to last for. The design concept came from Europe where materials to make contactors were expensive so they could not waste them on over doing anything. Engineering Degrees were passed out like candy after WWII, but good electricians were hard to find because most of them had been killed. So they did not use the precious few electricians' time thinking about how to apply the contactor, they had a dozen 22 year old engineers sitting around with their thumbs up their rear ends to do that. They would write a frickin "rationalization" report on exactly why they had selected a particular contactor. (I used to work for a German company, I had to do that.) People don't really do that here with IEC contactors, but technically we are supposed to. IEC contactors are less expensive than NEMA, but not as robust either, and most cannot be repaired, they are throw-away.

DP contactors were designed to be the absolute cheapest piece of minimal junk components that an OEM can put into a machine controller without causing a fire, at least not within the warranty period. That's it. Like the IEC they have to be very specifically engineered to match the motor and application. But as an OEM they only have to engineer it in once and they already know everything about the machine. But if they think the machine will operate 1000 times per month and the warranty is 12 months, they will select a DP contactor rated for 12,000 operation, not 12,0001. Contrary to popular belief, you CANNOT use a DP contactor for ANYTHING other than direct replacement of an exact part number, or one selected and approved by the OEM. DP contactors are not UL listed, they are UR, meaning UL Recognized components, and as such can ONLY be legally used by an OEM who will design, test and list the _entire assembly_. That does not of course stop people from selling them and others from misusing them, but in general, if it was dirt cheap, it was likely a DP contactor and you were not supposed to have used it.

$550, that was likely a NEMA starter. You could pay less for an IEC contactor but you will never go wrong with a NEMA version.


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## aerickson1889 (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks JRaef. Ya it is a nema size 2 starter. And that DP contactor is for sure the one I seen before for so cheap. Thanks for the help. Very informative


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

aerickson1889 said:


> Thanks JRaef. Ya it is a nema size 2 starter. And that DP contactor is for sure the one I seen before for so cheap. Thanks for the help. Very informative


One more thing....submit your bill for payment COD 1-2 days after their milk check arrive. :whistling2:


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## aerickson1889 (Nov 20, 2012)

John said:


> One more thing....submit your bill for payment COD 1-2 days after their milk check arrive. :whistling2:


Hahaha ya. Up here farmers got money. Best guys to do work for in my area are farmers


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

aerickson1889 said:


> Hahaha ya. Up here farmers got money. Best guys to do work for in my area are farmers


You got to remember that they are paying you for something that got fixed, not something that needs to be fixed. Something of immediate need trumps something fixed.:laughing:


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

aerickson1889 said:


> Hey guys, Im a residential electrician so I dont work on motors that often but I need some advice. Doing work on a farm(no 3 phase available so dont ask) and customer needs a motor hooked up for a pump. It is a 7.5hp single phase 33aFlc. My only question has to do with the starter. We are controlling it remotely and im just pricing out a starter. I got a quote from eecol for 550 bucks for starter which includes contactor(120vcoil), overloads and enclosure with reset button. Is this normal? I have bought contactors before and they were like 60 bucks for the same size(40amp). Is a starter not just a contactor with some overloads? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks fellas


Get a pump panel, it will have everything you need including the disconnect


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

tates1882 said:


> Get a pump panel, it will have everything you need including the disconnect


I agree. We can buy whole pump panels for the price of a starter OR breaker alone.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Cow said:


> I agree. We can buy whole pump panels for the price of a starter OR breaker alone.


Yep, Pump Panels are actually a "loss leader" for most manufacturers, because they know they will be abused and the farmer will buy a replacement contactor later at full price, or at least they keep telling themselves that. In reality, most people who buy them know that it's usually cheaper to buy the entire PP than to buy a replacement part. Yet because of competition, the mfrs keep on doing it.

But you have to be more careful now. Several of the mfrs have started using DP contactors in their cheaper Pump Panels, Siemens is one, Cutler Hammer is another. You CAN still get them with the NEMA contactors in them, but if you buy only on price now, you might find a nasty little surprise.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

aerickson1889 said:


> Hey guys, Im a residential electrician so I dont work on motors that often but I need some advice. Doing work on a farm(no 3 phase available so dont ask) and customer needs a motor hooked up for a pump. It is a 7.5hp single phase 33aFlc. My only question has to do with the starter. We are controlling it remotely and im just pricing out a starter. I got a quote from eecol for 550 bucks for starter which includes contactor(120vcoil), overloads and enclosure with reset button. Is this normal? I have bought contactors before and they were like 60 bucks for the same size(40amp). Is a starter not just a contactor with some overloads? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks fellas


Go IEC. You can get one in a NEMA 1 enclosure for less than$300.00. Preiwired and ready to go.
For a few more dollars, you can get operator interface on the enclosure.
See picture below and link.



Big John said:


> If you shop around, you could find an IEC version that might be a hundred bucks cheaper, but it's also less sturdy.


More like less than half a NEMA if you know what to buy. Siemens or Weg will beat that NEMA price all day long by hundreds of dollars.



Cow said:


> I agree. We can buy whole pump panels for the price of a starter OR breaker alone.


What does one cost? 7.5 HP. These below for 7.5 HP run about $250.00. No pilot devices.
Fully enclosed with you select OL relay.


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