# Combination motor starters



## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

Dumb question, but here goes....
A combo motor starter with a circuit breaker as the disconnect was ordered at our shop for a locally controlled three quarter horse 208v fan motor.
The enclosure came without a hand-off-auto switch. Just a breaker and a contactor with overload protection, and a 208v coil.
Can the fan motor be operated with this set-up, with the breaker being used as the on-off switch to energize the coil and operate the motor? Or is the hand-off-auto, (or stop-start pushbuttons) necessary?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm not a code expert but I dont think you need the control circuit. You would want it. It's really simple to install and whilst it would work I recommend you put at least a start stop on it.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

nolabama said:


> I'm not a code expert but I dont think you need the control circuit. You would want it. It's really simple to install and whilst it would work I recommend you put at least a start stop on it.


Im with noblama... 3 w control start stop


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

It will work as is. 
Auto will just not do anything. 
You didn't say what brand, but Square D has an On/off switch that will fit in the hole. 
Look in their source book.

Btw, using the breaker as the on/off isn't a good idea. It isn't made to be used all the time. 
Just use the contactor, you paid for it already.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I Reread theOP I like that 208 coil. This is so easy a caveman can do it.


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

ampman66 said:


> Dumb question, but here goes....
> A combo motor starter with a circuit breaker as the disconnect was ordered at our shop for a locally controlled three quarter horse 208v fan motor.
> The enclosure came without a hand-off-auto switch. Just a breaker and a contactor with overload protection, and a 208v coil.
> Can the fan motor be operated with this set-up, with the breaker being used as the on-off switch to energize the coil and operate the motor? Or is the hand-off-auto, (or stop-start pushbuttons) necessary?


install a t-stat, timer,humidistat,photocell,single pole switch, by the way how did you come up with your name


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

ampman said:


> install a t-stat, timer,humidistat,photocell,single pole switch, by the way how did you come up with your name


Only if he puts all of em on a drive and writes a Plc to drive the maintenance guy nuts.


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

nolabama said:


> Only if he puts all of em on a drive and writes a Plc to drive the maintenance guy nuts.


:laughing:i didn't mean all at once


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

nolabama said:


> I Reread theOP I like that 208 coil. This is so easy a caveman can do it.


At least he asked before he goofed. 

Of course he could have said hi first and bought us a round of coffee.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

As the starter sits now, the hand position will start the motor. If it needs to be started from a remote location, there'll be two terminals inside that you can connect a switch to, and said switch will control the motor in the auto position. 

Generally speaking, a setup like this is useful for troubleshooting. The switch is usually in the auto position, and another switch (or several switches in series) control the motor. The hand position is used as a test of the control circuit. It'll tell you whether the problem is in the control circuit or the starter itself.


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## ampman66 (Dec 5, 2012)

The fan in question is going to be run continuously.
I work in a prison, as a maintenance electrician, and this fan is for exausting steam. The steam line is the main one for the prison, and it has a leak in it that probably won't get fixed anytime soon.
Screwed up, I know.....it is what it is.
The reason for the question is that I want to get this fan running as soon as possible, and ordering parts from our contracted vendor takes forever.
I wanted to get this starter mounted and running, then shut it down when I get the hand-off-auto switch, and install the switch onto the enclosure.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Starting a quarter horse across the line ain't no big deal. Start the fan and put the part in when you get it.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

ampman66 said:


> The fan in question is going to be run continuously.
> I work in a prison, as a maintenance electrician, and this fan is for exausting steam. The steam line is the main one for the prison, and it has a leak in it that probably won't get fixed anytime soon.
> Screwed up, I know.....it is what it is.
> The reason for the question is that I want to get this fan running as soon as possible, and ordering parts from our contracted vendor takes forever.
> I wanted to get this starter mounted and running, then shut it down when I get the hand-off-auto switch, and install the switch onto the enclosure.


Turn it on and don't worry about it. 
Steam tunnel work sucks when its filled. 
How many pounds do you guys use?
We're 125#


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## LBC Jesse (Apr 26, 2012)

We have the perfect solution to the combo/ non-combo starter problem... one starter will cover 1-40amps, accept any line voltage from 208-600vac dry and wet inputs, the ajustable overload covers 1-40amps, no worries about control voltage, this thing will take care of it.. Never have to worry again about gettign to the jobsite and wondering if your starter has the right overload or heaters, right coil, pilot lights etc.... inventory issues solved.. I could go on.. Our Smart Start was recently mentioned in Control Engineering Nov issue : http://www.controleng.com/new-produ...tection/42505cd770ef8e648d63cf7fe73f3ac1.html
here's pic's of the non-combo...


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Just for future reference (because you already own this starter), this would have been an appropriate application for a "Manual Motor Starter" which has no coil at all, just a manual switch with motor protection built- in, because you do NOT need automatic or remote control capability. But too late now.

You also do not need an HOA switch, all you need is an On-Off switch here, they are a little cheaper and simpler. 

As to 2 wire (what that would be) or 3wire (Start-Stop button) control, you would want 3 wire control if re-starting after a power failure presents a dangerous condition. A steam 1/4HP vent fan that runs continuously does not sound like that kind of application. I think 2 wire control is appropriate here, you don't want someone to forget to re-start it after a power failure and have the steam cause damage.

As to using the breaker only, the point about the breaker not being designed for that is correct, breakers are designed for hundreds of operations, contactors for 1 million minimum. But then again if this is only shut down for routine maintenance, you may not even use it 100 times in 20 years, so it should be fine. But I would still put in the switch if it were me.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

If he uses a two wire he can get by with a snap switch ?


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