# Some confusion/number of receptacles on a circuit



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

So I know there isn't a limit to receptacles on one circuit in the nec. In Canada they limit to what, twelve? 


What does limit our receptacle installation for "common" ckts. Not dedicated circuits and the such. 

What prevents us from slamming in forty on one circuit?


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## JimmyR (Mar 11, 2010)

watch the "us" stuff


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know... you, me, the next guy, everyone.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I completely admit, it's kind of a ******** question but I am seriously asking.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Nothing in resi. Just stay out of the laundry, bathroom, the kitchen counter, the dining room, breakfast nook, similar. 180va per outlet in commercial.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Nothing in resi. Just stay out of the laundry, bathroom, the kitchen counter, the dining room, breakfast nook, similar. 180va per outlet in commercial.


This is what I'm getting at. In resi it's nothing but in commercial 180va.

I don't get the reasoning.


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## Kill O Watt (Dec 30, 2010)

My rule of thumb, I assume each outlet is 100 watts. 80% of a 15 or 20amp circuit. That's including all lighting on that circuit as well, assuming its a 15 amp circ., you don't want more than 1440 watts. 1440 being a heavy 15 amp circuit. I always keep it under, like 1300.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> This is what I'm getting at. In resi it's nothing but in commercial 180va.
> 
> I don't get the reasoning.


Well its like this. If you live in a house, take a walk around and see how many outlets are not getting used at all ever. Now look in your typical office building. See what I mean? The outlets in the office are almost always packed full, and usually multiple plug strips plugged into them to boot. They see more load on average, but of course for every rule there is exceptions...


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Kill O Watt said:


> My rule of thumb, I assume each outlet is 100 watts. 80% of a 15 or 20amp circuit. That's including all lighting on that circuit as well, assuming its a 15 amp circ., you don't want more than 1440 watts. 1440 being a heavy 15 amp circuit. I always keep it under, like 1300.


Wow really? Even 1440w isn't really a _heavy_ 15a ckt even if it's only lights. 1640, yes, maybe.

I just wonder where these guidelines and rules of thumb come from.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Wow really? Even 1440w isn't really a _heavy_ 15a ckt even if it's only lights. 1640, yes, maybe.
> 
> I just wonder where these guidelines and rules of thumb come from.



1440 / 120. Hmmm. That looks a lot like 15 * 80% .:whistling2:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Well its like this. If you live in a house, take a walk around and see how many outlets are not getting used at all ever. Now look in your typical office building. See what I mean? The outlets in the office are almost always packed full, and usually multiple plug strips plugged into them to boot. They see more load on average, but of course for every rule there is exceptions...


I do see what you mean. And it goes to my question (hang tight.)

Generally we/you may pull more circuits for those perceived loads. In resi, we don't really have that. 

What limits us from pulling less circuits for more receptacles in a house?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> 1440 / 120. Hmmm. That looks a lot like 15 * 80% .:whistling2:


Okay, but I'm wondering what code can you cite that requires this.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I do see what you mean. And it goes to my question (hang tight.)
> 
> Generally we/you may pull more circuits for those perceived loads. In resi, we don't really have that.
> 
> What limits us from pulling less circuits for more receptacles in a house?


Well you can if you want to, but it's not smart in the long run. Inspectors will get jumpy about it if they find it, even if they cannot justify. There is a certain way to look at it in the code. You have 3 watts per sq. foot in residential for loading calcs purposes, and in the same section the code says evenly divide the load up among the circuits. Its a weak argument in my opinion to try making you run additional circuits in a resi based on that, but it really doesn't matter to me much since I generally follow to about 10- 12 recept outlets on a 15 and 13 or 14 on a twenty max. I run lights separate from outlets on 15 amp circuits.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> 1440 / 120. Hmmm. That looks a lot like 15 * 80% .:whistling2:


Why 80%. I agree it is still a heavy circuit, whatever that means, but you can load it to 100% IMO. I think it is a bad idea but generally even at 100% for more then 3 hours is not bad unless it is like that all the time. Generally that is not the case in a residence.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I guess I'm just being a hardass here. On average, I run about 10 receps on a 20a ckt. Lights are almost always on their own 15a.

But... why not put twenty or thirty or forty receptacles on one circuit?

What code/ article tells me I can't do this?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> I guess I'm just being a hardass here. On average, I run about 10 receps on a 20a ckt. Lights are almost always on their own 15a.
> 
> But... why not put twenty or thirty or forty receptacles on one circuit?
> 
> What code and article tells me I can't do this?


 For a residence you can have a hundred recep. on a circuit. As long as all the other codes are complied with it is okay.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> I guess I'm just being a hardass here. On average, I run about 10 receps on a 20a ckt. Lights are almost always on their own 15a.
> 
> But... why not put twenty or thirty or forty receptacles on one circuit?
> 
> What code/ article tells me I can't do this?


I'd put one/two room(s) per 20amp, I am prone to over build; Lights, I'd go by code and run my calc.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Okay, what makes 80% of a circuit make a "heavy circuit?"

Really why?


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I guess I'm just being a hardass here. On average, I run about 10 receps on a 20a ckt. Lights are almost always on their own 15a.
> 
> But... why not put twenty or thirty or forty receptacles on one circuit?
> 
> What code/ article tells me I can't do this?


If you did no one would hire you after the first time you did it, and if you were working for an employer they'd fire you for being stupid.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> I'd put one/two room(s) per 20amp, I am prone to over build; Lights, I'd go by code and run my calc.


I guess my whole point of this was how many rooms can I get away with one home run. Some rooms have maybe six receps, some have maybe eight and some are a master bed with even more that. 

Of course i can run ckts for damn near every room, yes , I can do that.

But legally, I could run one circuit for every bedroom in the whole house.

Yes, I'm being annoying... like I care.
:laughing:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> If you did no one would hire you after the first time you did it, and if you were working for an employer they'd fire you for being stupid.


Yes, I know that and damn I've never done it but why not?

Hell, this isn't hanging xmas lights.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> I guess my whole point of this was how many rooms can I get away with one home run. Some rooms have maybe six receps, some have maybe eight and some are a master bed with even more that.
> 
> Of course i can run ckts for damn near every room, yes , I can do that.
> 
> ...


Yes, but you gotta use common sense. Do you really want to go back and add extra circuits because your one 15A circuit supplying all the outlets keep tripping! Just saying!


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Yes, I'm being annoying... like I care.
> :laughing:


I'm that way every day on this site!

Anyway, from looking at engineer's blueprints over the freaking years, and all other input involved, it's an average of 7 receps to me, course that's commercial; per 20a resi, 5-7 seems like a max to me; like I said, overbuild.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Still being a pain in the ass, devils advocate, why can't someone _legally_ put as many receptacles as they want on a circuit in a house?

I could care less what you do, I probably do something similar.

I really am looking for a violation reference here.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

No violation just like Dennis posted already. Let me ask you something. Has this got something to do with wanting to buy less AFCI breakers??


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Okay, but I'm wondering what code can you cite that requires this.



It's called a _guideline_, or _rule of thumb_. That's what you asked for.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> No violation just like Dennis posted already. Let me ask you something. Has this got something to do with wanting to buy less AFCI breakers??


Good call. 
Not so much buying less afci but using less. I don't really care what the cost is. Ca just adopted 2008 so.. yeah...
I'm thinking, maybe over a bit, but the op still stands.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> It's called a _guideline_, or _rule of thumb_. That's what you asked for.


Actually what I asked for was in the post 1: 

_What prevents us from slamming in forty on one circuit?_


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Actually what I asked for was in the post 1:
> 
> _What prevents us from slamming in forty on one circuit?_



Common sense.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Don't forget about local amendments. My understanding from those in the Bay Area is its restrictive about how many on a circuit to the point of utterly ridiculous in many of the surrounding areas .


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I've heard 6 on a twenty amp from other Oakland posters in other forums before, but I really know nothing about what rules are actually enforced there.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Common sense.


Orrly?


Obviously nobody (or near nobody) would do that, but, nothing prevents us from doing that? 

You could put 40 receptacles on a 20a ckt and an inspector would not be able to cite an article?

:laughing:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I've heard 6 on a twenty amp from other Oakland posters in other forums before, but I really know nothing about what rules are actually enforced there.


I've never heard that. Oakland does have some different rules with handicap switch elevations that are different than the cec and the nec but...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> ............You could put 40 receptacles on a 20a ckt and an inspector would not be able to cite an article?









​


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

You know Rude, your not the first genius to figure out that you can legally lower your afci count if you try something along those lines, I have heard lots of inspectors steaming up over this move. So they take the job apart and find something else until the wiseguy learns how to add some circuits.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> ​


Why? The nec tells us the most obvious and mundane things and your answer to my question is a photo of a monkey giving the thumbs up?

Why don't you just say that the nec has no opinion on the matter? You don't have a problem saying that in other situations.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Why? The nec tells us the most obvious and mundane things and your answer to my question is a photo of a monkey giving the thumbs up?
> 
> Why don't you just say that the nec has no opinion on the matter? You don't have a problem saying that in other situations.


shut up already.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The NEC doesn't care.

The NEC doesn't care how many receptacles you put on a 15a general-purpose circuit in a dwelling. 

It doesn't care if the switch for the light in the room is actually in the room.... it could be at the other end of the house. 

The NEC doesn't care if you put any 3-ways in a house at all.

The NEC doesn't care if you use 'standard' receptacles, or Decora, or what color they are.

The NEC doesn't care if you use all single receptacles, or the more common duplex.

The NEC doesn't care if you use NM and Carlon boxes.

The NEC doesn't care if your 10-3 has an orange sheath or not

The NEC doesn't care if you use copper or aluminum or copper-clad aluminum.

The NEC doesn't care if you get electricity from a utility, from solar cells, from a generator, from an inverter, or from wind power.

The NEC doesn't care if you make money or not.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> You know Rude, your not the first genius to figure out that you can legally lower your afci count if you try something along those lines, I have heard lots of inspectors steaming up over this move. So they take the job apart and find something else until the wiseguy learns how to add some circuits.


The whole idea is not lowering an afci count. Heck, i really don't care, if I have to add subpanels than that's what I'll do. It is about being as conservative with circuits that I can be. I get paid by the hour and I'm not being paid now so...

A few months ago I started a topic about afci and panels... there was a little feedback but i think most users prefer blue boxes and buried folding chairs.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> The NEC doesn't care.
> 
> The NEC doesn't care how many receptacles you put on a 15a general-purpose circuit in a dwelling.
> 
> ...


Fvcking finally!

It's like pulling teeth.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> ....It's like pulling teeth.


The NEC doesn't care.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> there was a little feedback but i think most users prefer blue boxes and buried folding chairs.


Blue rules!
Folding chairs, not so much.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> shut up already.


What the hell do you care?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> The NEC doesn't care.


Meow meow.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> What the hell do you care?


"this thread is dildos"


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Blue rules!
> Folding chairs, not so much.


yeah, I agree.
:whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

​


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> "this thread is dildos"


You didn't need to put in quotes.
A simple...

Dildos.

would suffice.
:laughing:


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Why? The nec tells us the most obvious and mundane things and your answer to my question is a photo of a monkey giving the thumbs up?
> 
> Why don't you just say that the nec has no opinion on the matter? You don't have a problem saying that in other situations.


Some might revert to the fact of his "Toolish-ness" for a response.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BuzzKill said:


> Some might revert to the fact of his "Toolish-ness" for a response.










​


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

you guys crack me up


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> ​


Why, you never really answered the stupid thread op question.

Means you can't.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Please Ken.
How many receptacles can I put on a 15a or a 20a common household circuit?

5,10,12,14,16,40,100?

None?


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

duuuuude, there is no limit, put down the pipe.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

It's every electrician's god given right to put however many outlets they damn well please on a "common household circuit".

There we go I brought religion into it, let's crash and burn this thread. :laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Not Oakland? Richmond? San Jose? SF? someplace on the south or east bay. They also said only two cables per drilled hole, but you won't find that one in the NEC either


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> It's every electrician's god given right to put however many outlets they damn well please on a "common household circuit".
> 
> There we go I brought religion into it, let's crash and burn this thread. :laughing:


Thank you.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Not Oakland? Richmond? San Jose? SF? someplace on the south or east bay. They also said only two cables per drilled hole, but you won't find that one in the NEC either


yeah, that'd be in the peninsula. Redwood city.


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## Jeter (Nov 30, 2010)

The Canadian code book let's you put a Max of 12 outlet per 15 amp cct, assuming 1amp per plug. Always use 80% of breaker size. 80% of 15 = 12,


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