# Arc Fault Receptacles?



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

There are no AFCI receptacles on the market at this time. 

So yeah, you're basically stuck with changing the panel or adding a subpanel.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

Change it out. thumb up.


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## LBC Jesse (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks for the info.. I broke the news to the customer and told him to call an electrician to upgrade/ set subpanel


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

All it takes is to encourage them to Google a bit about Federal Pacific, and they'll come to their own conclusion that they want the panel replaced.


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## LBC Jesse (Apr 26, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> All it takes is to encourage them to Google a bit about Federal Pacific, and they'll come to their own conclusion that they want the panel replaced.



Aint that the truth!!.. along with Zinsco, Wadsworth etc... Fpe's stablok design was not the brightest engineered thing to be massively produced and sold for sure...


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

LBC Jesse said:


> Aint that the truth!!.. along with Zinsco, Wadsworth etc... Fpe's stablok design was not the brightest engineered thing to be massively produced and sold for sure...


Neither was running aluminum wire with oversized breakers and no main. I know FPE has a bad rap, but alot of the issues I've seen we're caused by installation error or people changing breakers and such after installation.


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## aDudeInPhx (Feb 20, 2012)

It would be very nice if they made reasonably priced arc-fault receps.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

aDudeInPhx said:


> It would be very nice if they made reasonably priced arc-fault receps.




Someday my friend. Someday.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Someday my friend. Someday.


Why infringe on a great revenue generator? An AFCI receptacle would probably cost as much as a GFCI receptacle.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Shockdoc said:


> Why infringe on a great revenue generator? An AFCI receptacle would probably cost as much as a GFCI receptacle.


I bet an afci receptacle will cost as much as an afci breaker.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I would imagine that with all the brainpower available on this site, an arc fault receptacle outlet could be produced and sold at huge profit. If it was me, I'd have to get up from under this coconut tree where I'm sitting (I have a Samoan tree climber who removes the tree's fruit regularly, but thanks for worrying about my safety..)and it is just too pleasant a day for that... Who wants to start the party?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I don't think the manufacturer's of the breakers would ever make one, because then, the constant tripping at the receptacles would prove what I have been having to say all along- Its the freaking* device, not my circuit wiring that is causing all the *%$#@*!!! problems......


* substitue word for some other word needed.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> I don't think the manufacturer's of the breakers would ever make one, because then, the constant tripping at the receptacles would prove what I have been having to say all along- Its the freaking* device, not my circuit wiring that is causing all the *%$#@*!!! problems......
> 
> * substitue word for some other word needed.


Hardwire all appliances! We don't need no stinking devices! 

Stickers above all old switch locations that say "touch wires together and clamp with vicegrips. -Cletis Electric."


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I would imagine that with all the brainpower available on this site, an arc fault receptacle outlet could be produced and sold at huge profit. If it was me, I'd have to get up from under this coconut tree where I'm sitting (I have a Samoan tree climber who removes the tree's fruit regularly, but thanks for worrying about my safety..)and it is just too pleasant a day for that... Who wants to start the party?


P&S already has.

Back when AFCI protection was introduced, it was just receptacles that were required to be protected. So P&S developed & actually manufactured AFCI receptacles, and had submitted them to UL for listing. Then the language was changed to _circuits_, not just _receptacles_.

So P&S dropped the AFCI receptacle idea.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> P&S already has.
> 
> Back when AFCI protection was introduced, it was just receptacles that were required to be protected. So P&S developed & actually manufactured AFCI receptacles, and had submitted them to UL for listing. Then the language was changed to _circuits_, not just _receptacles_.
> 
> So P&S dropped the AFCI receptacle idea.


I'm aware that for a while P&S produced a gfi receptacle outlet that had printing on the box identifying it as an arc-fault device.......


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## MasterE (Dec 31, 2011)

It's like when GFCI was first required, there were only breakers at $50 plus a pop.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

True Safe claims that these are AFCI receptacles.

But the specs read like a panacea of circuit protection, so it makes me a more than a little skeptical:


> ...Protection: Arc Fault, Overload, Short Circuit, Surge...


 All that in one little receptacle, huh? 

-John


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Big John said:


> True Safe claims that these are AFCI receptacles.
> 
> But the specs read like a panacea of circuit protection, so it makes me a more than a little skeptical: All that in one little receptacle, huh?
> 
> -John



Don't look like TR to me. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Big John said:


> True Safe claims that these are AFCI receptacles.
> 
> But the specs read like a panacea of circuit protection, so it makes me a more than a little skeptical: All that in one little receptacle, huh?
> 
> -John


Are those made by "Heng Fen Electrical Industry Manufacturing, Ltd"?


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

Big John said:


> True Safe claims that these are AFCI receptacles.
> 
> But the specs read like a panacea of circuit protection, so it makes me a more than a little skeptical: All that in one little receptacle, huh?
> 
> -John


Why is that plug shown upside down in the picture:whistling2:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

480sparky said:


> P&S already has.
> 
> Back when AFCI protection was introduced, it was just receptacles that were required to be protected. So P&S developed & actually manufactured AFCI receptacles, and had submitted them to UL for listing. Then the language was changed to _circuits_, not just _receptacles_.
> 
> So P&S dropped the AFCI receptacle idea.


There was never a requirement that would have permitted the use of an AFCI receptacle(the 2011 code does permit the use of AFCI receptacles in some cases). The rule required that the branch circuit that supplied receptacle outlets in dwelling unit bedrooms have AFCI protection.


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## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

The down side to the AFCI receptacle is you have to hard pipe from panel to the first AFCI rec, so there is no big savings in using them.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I thought any metallic wiring method was acceptable, no?

-John


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## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

Not from what my State inspector told me it had to be in EMT.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> There was never a requirement that would have permitted the use of an AFCI receptacle(the 2011 code does permit the use of AFCI receptacles in some cases). The rule required that the branch circuit that supplied receptacle outlets in dwelling unit bedrooms have AFCI protection.


The original idea was to install an AFCI recep in the first outlet of the homerun, then feed the rest of the recepts in the bedroom off it.

That's the way it was written in the ROP. It got changed between it and the 1999 NEC.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

rigid, imc, emt, mc and ac wiring methods with metal j boxes.


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## Scott_w (Jan 1, 2012)

darren79 said:


> Why is that plug shown upside down in the picture:whistling2:


There really is no upside down. If you are using metal covers (ie, stainless) instead of plastic, it must be mounted as pictured.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Big John said:


> True Safe claims that these are AFCI receptacles.
> 
> But the specs read like a panacea of circuit protection, so it makes me a more than a little skeptical: All that in one little receptacle, huh?
> 
> -John


my argument, since '99, has been who bears the onus of_ liability_ for said claims


for ex, if in fact one's interior wiring will _never_ assume an arcing incident with the inclusion of afci technology , then service upgrades utilizing them to older K&T, and or BX wired homes would be the ultimate fix


i've recieved numerous bureacratic backpeddalings resulting from my posing this ideal to the powers that be

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> i've recieved numerous bureacratic backpeddalings resulting from my posing this ideal to the powers that be


But are they backpedling from the topic or backpedling from a crazy speaking ranting nut job? 

:whistling2:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Scott_w said:


> There really is no upside down. If you are using metal covers (ie, stainless) instead of plastic, it must be mounted as pictured.


Code reference please...:whistling2:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Code reference please...:whistling2:


Canadian post.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> But are they backpedling from the topic or backpedling from a crazy speaking ranting nut job?
> 
> :whistling2:


i think most understand my _put up, or shut up_ stance BBQ

it's a pity , however, that so few within our system have their feet held to the fire for specifics

that they call it some sort of democratic process should be insulting to , well, even _you_

~CS~


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

darren79 said:


> Why is that plug shown upside down in the picture:whistling2:


Maybe its because the whole afci shebang is upside down.....


But in this America we got now, nothing upside down is upside down.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Canadian post.


Oh! That figures..:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> that they call it some sort of democratic process should be insulting to , well, even _you_


What is really insulting is your _'I am smarter than all of you attitude.'_:jester:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> What is really insulting is your _'I am smarter than all of you attitude.'_:jester:


methinks someone had a 2nd helping of nasty flakes.....~CS~


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> What is really insulting is your _'I am smarter than all of you attitude.'_:jester:


Can I get me a Black kettle here.....:whistling2::laughing::laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> methinks someone had a 2nd helping of nasty flakes.....~CS~


No,:laughing: I just get as tired of reading all your (and others) doom and gloom posts as you are tired of the statu quo. 

I come here to forget the real world and all it's problems while some seem to thrive on bringing all the worlds problems here.




HARRY304E said:


> Can I get me a Black kettle here.....:whistling2::laughing::laughing:


The difference is _*I am much better than you.
*_ 




<JK Harry> :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> The difference is _*I am much better than you.
> *_
> 
> 
> ...


:blink::laughing:


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

Ok people the upside down was a joke, lets not that start another 5 page discussion on such a stupid subject.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

BBQ said:


> No,:laughing: I just get as tired of reading all your (and others) doom and gloom posts as you are tired of the statu quo.
> 
> I come here to forget the real world and all it's problems while some seem to thrive on bringing all the worlds problems here.
> 
> ...


Sorry I have using this forum wrong. I have been using it to vent the days frustrations away. And to see what Cletis can I do this is up for viewing and getting me teeth kick in by people who are trying to escape for the real world. Are just counting how quick Harry will go through his thanks.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Theriot said:


> Sorry I have using this forum wrong. I have been using it to vent the days frustrations away. And to see what Cletis can I do this is up for viewing and getting me teeth kick in by people who are trying to escape for the real world. Are just counting how quick Harry will go through his thanks.


I was actually talking about the political, religious, government sucks, there is a world conspiracy against us type stuff. :laughing:


But point taken, we all come here for our own reasons.




I still don't have to like CS cryptic posts. :jester:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Theriot said:


> Sorry I have using this forum wrong. I have been using it to vent the days frustrations away. And to see what Cletis can I do this is up for viewing and getting me teeth kick in by people who are trying to escape for the real world. Are just counting how quick Harry will go through his thanks.


I used up all my thanks button hits last night and they still have not come back..:laughing:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

480sparky said:


> The original idea was to install an AFCI recep in the first outlet of the homerun, then feed the rest of the recepts in the bedroom off it.
> 
> That's the way it was written in the ROP. It got changed between it and the 1999 NEC.


The 3 proposals for the 99 code, 2-128. 2-129 and 2-130, all called for AFCI protection for the branch circuit. There is no mention of AFCI receptacles in the proposals.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The 3 proposals for the 99 code, 2-128. 2-129 and 2-130, all called for AFCI protection for the branch circuit. There is no mention of AFCI receptacles in the proposals.


That's my recollection of it.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> ...I still don't have to like CS cryptic posts. :jester:


 What, did Brian forget to include the secret decoder ring when he sent your mug?

You should've drunk more Ovaltine.

-John


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## local134gt (Dec 24, 2008)

darren79 said:


> Why is that plug shown upside down in the picture:whistling2:


It should be rotated 90 deg clockwise before install :whistling2:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I still don't have to like CS cryptic posts. :jester:


but you're willing to accept the NFPA, CPSC, and every NRTL that bows to a $$$ ' cryptic illusions of saftey ?

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> but you're willing to accept the NFPA, CPSC, and every NRTL that bows to a $$$ ' cryptic illusions of saftey ?
> 
> ~CS~


As phucked up as all those can be they are still a cake walk compared to 87.6732% of your posts. :thumbsup::whistling2::laughing:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I just figure his grasp of the english language is better than mine.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Afci-nwo


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## LBC Jesse (Apr 26, 2012)

I appreciate all the info yall gave me (and some good jokes as well)... I had another call yesterday for a customer who needs AFCI protection and wanted to pull a standard Zinsco breaker and install a AFCI.. when I informed this customer (of asian decent) that Zinsco never made a AFCI breaker, I thought he was going to go Hong Kong Phooey on me...


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