# Potential Apprentice



## aivilo (Feb 6, 2018)

I'm in my mid-twenties and am a banker. I'm sick of the constant down time, staring at a computer, and having to use my fake "customer service voice" all day. It's unfulfilling, mind-numbing, and probably going to make me fat by 40. My dad, an electrical contractor, has offered to hire me on as an apprentice.

It's appealing to get into a career that keeps me active and busy, has a tangible end product to be proud of, and will put me on a track to make better money than I ever could doing what I do now. But it'd be a huge change! I did a small remodel on my house and helped out when my parents were building theirs but that's about it, so I have no real experience with manual labor. I live in Wyoming, so winter is COLD and I'm worried about adjusting to it. I was always a good student, but the math they teach in class looks pretty difficult. And I'm a woman. Basically I'm just really scared to make such a huge jump. Any words of encouragement, suggestions, etc. would be much appreciated!


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## Rora (Jan 31, 2017)

People don't like nepotism, myself included, but being a relative and a woman will get you a lot of leeway while you adjust to the work conditions. Eventually adjusting to the conditions is a matter of determination more than anything. Your determination is a matter of how much you really want to do this, it can be a rewarding career but it can be hard work (i.e. more labor) when you're starting off.

I work in instrumentation, and the math is arguably much more involved than straight electrical work... even then, it's rarely a part of the day to day job. If you can do basic arithmetic, then don't worry about it. They cover it in class because class is about theory... attention to detail whenever math is involved is much more important. Doing field work in Canada, currently working 12+ hours in -20 to -30c and worse. With cold, it helps to realize that it sucks for everyone and wearing the proper clothing is everything. Keep skin covered and monitor your temperature to avoid getting too hot (working hard with too much insulation, causing sweat which freezes) or too cold, adjust layers as necessary. Everything will take more time, generally it sucks, but it's not the end of the world 'cause you find ways to cope.

If I were you, I'd ask to come along during some off time and see what you think, it's not like you have to make a career decision without trying it first since you have a connection. Considering it's winter and you're new, it's a good "opportunity" to see the worst of it. The grass is always greener, it helps to get a nibble from the other side to see if it's really greener to you. It would be a big change, so really it's a question of whether you want to do it enough to get through the crappy parts or whether a less significant change of career makes more sense.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

When it's hot you'll be hot, when it's cold you'll be cold, and when it's dirty you'll be dirty.....



:vs_cool:
~CS~


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## Bumzag (Oct 6, 2017)

I literally just had my interview today. I used to work at a bank, I'm 24, was in IT and hated it for the same reason you did, having to always act chipper, act professional in a corporate manner, stare at a computer screen for literally 8 hours a day. I left that job and started working for an ISP, always outside, working with my hands, being cold hot and dirty. Now I'm trying to budge my way into an apprenticeship. I was really afraid of change, having a safe, easy, physically comfortable job is nice, but it's just not rewarding. Humans have evolved to be outside, exposed to the elements, it's in our nature. 

The process of getting an apprenticeship is long, and you obviously have no obligation to them until you accept the apprenticeship, so go for it. I applied back in.. I think September, maybe August, and I JUST got an interview. I won't know if I've been accepted until like late May/June, and I believe even then I have to wait longer. 

Worst case, whether you don't get accepted or don't take the offer, at least you have something to look forward to.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Office work can be a real downer.

A female electrician has a few real advantages in our trade:

Service call work -- customers just LOVE competent female electricians.

PLCs and other such detail work. Women are simply fussy workers. 

They don't over-torque critical screws, etc.

Every EC I ever knew wanted to hire yet more women. 

&&&

*If you can handle it, think about being a Project Manager cum Estimator.*

You might be shocked to find out that you're a NATURAL Project Manager.

Think about your personal background.

Our industry is ALWAYS looking for competent Project Managers, always.


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## aivilo (Feb 6, 2018)

Good idea on tagging along for a day - I'm going to do that in next week.


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## aivilo (Feb 6, 2018)

Thanks, I was having trouble thinking of any advantages to being female besides being able to squeeze into tight spaces. What makes a competent project manager? Obviously that wouldn't be me for quite some time but it's a nice title.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

In Real Life, Project Managers are -- essentially -- customer's men ( women, too ) -- by that I mean that they interface with customers -- constantly.

That's the KEY part of their profession: dealing with know-nothing customers -- and emotional customers -- and so forth.

In many, many, ways it's a customer service job.

It also entails planning the job. 

If the foreman is the Sgt. then you're the Lt.

There's lots of computer work, these days, but there's also a ton of out-of-the-office work, too.

Social skills are critical to the success of a Project Manager.

There's a lot of multi-tasking required -- which women do so much better than men -- it's a genetic advantage AFAIK.

I rather suspect that you could transition MUCH quicker to being a Project Manager than you ever could to journeyman electrician.

It even pays better. No-one ever lays off a Project Manager. You're deemed part of the Sales Force... a staff position.

You'll typically get a company car, credit card, etc. etc.

Most guys are not at all suited to being a Project Manager. 

Chatting up 'crazy' customers is the LAST thing they wish to do.


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## aivilo (Feb 6, 2018)

So am I reading that correctly - you can be a project manager without necessarily being a journeyman?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I would take a banking career over this trade any day.
I like to be warm in the winter.
I like to be cool in the summer.
I like to stay clean and prefer to dress nice instead of wearing work clothes.
I like Monday through Friday with weekends off.
I like to take a crap in an air conditioned bathroom much better than any convenience store or porta potty.

Personally I think your nuts. But do what makes you happy.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm not sure what you would like better, I hate being in an office or inside a building in general.

I prefer getting out on jobs and meeting new people and seeing new places.

Tagging along for a day or two will definitely give you a better opinion on what the job is like.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

aivilo said:


> So am I reading that correctly - you can be a project manager without necessarily being a journeyman?


Incredibly, that's the NORMAL progression.

I can't think of a single Project Manager who was a j-man.

Great foremen train Project Mangers -- they are never promoted to being a PM.

They are far too valuable exactly where they are.

PM is deem an ENTRY LEVEL position.

But only the few are deemed qualified.

You could well be a 'natural' -- considering that you're coming from Customer Service.

Which just happens to be the heart of the job of a PM.

Charming customers is the make or break skill for the position.


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## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

John Valdes said:


> I would take a banking career over this trade any day.
> I like to be warm in the winter.
> I like to be cool in the summer.
> I like to stay clean and prefer to dress nice instead of wearing work clothes.
> ...


Every time I walk into the bank to deposit my check I always think it would be nice to have those conditions to work in. I guess office people look at us and get jealous and we look at them and get jealous.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The typical cubicle job actually has rotten pay.

Rotten compared to the hiring standards set to the job slot.

The classic rotten pay: adjunct professor at a college. 

Such a soul will definitely need a second job to pay the rent.

Plus, will have to have a PhD in the field of instruction.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Our industry simply does not use the term "Salesman// Saleswoman."

Instead, Project Manager is used.

The KEY role of a PM:

Getting the customer to sign on the bottom line.

Especially EXTRAS -- which is where our industry makes all of its profits.

The technical knowledge for a budding PM will be provided by the owner, himself, and his existing staff.

What a PM apprentice supplies: charm, grace, and mastery of paper flow: all the documents that a job generates.

[ Most electricians would rather die than wade through paperwork. If they were that good at paperwork, they'd start up their own contracting firm. Electricians became electricians because -- while pretty bright -- they hated paperwork. 

The LAST thing they want to do is to take their job home with them. ]

Whereas a PM pretty much has to put up with 'off-hours' phone calls from distressed customers. It's the reason for the 'hazard pay.' :biggrin:

PMs don't lift anything heavy... and are expected to wear 'sales dress' ALL of the time. That translates to business suits for men ... and conservative women's dress for the ladies. ( can be a woman's business suit, or high collar business wear for the gals... light on the make-up. )

The typical company vehicle for a PM: a newish small pick-up or modest sedan... usually set up to hold documents. 

Big ECs dealing with the government will have multiple PMs working a master contract. They will be tasked with the astounding paper flow involved. 

Unlike j-men, PMs don't jump from firm to firm. Virtually every firm wants to hire and train their own Project Managers from the ground up. 

Yes, it's an ENTRY LEVEL position. No-one hiring is particularly happy to see that you've got a ton of industry experience. Such experiences trigger worry: what of her loyalty ?

Absolute loyalty is the sine qua non for this role. :smile:


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## aivilo (Feb 6, 2018)

I can understand being jealous of the working conditions at the bank. But think of it from the teller's position... depositing your check, then the next person's, and the next. ALL DAY. While having to pretend to care. Then going home and thinking, "What did I actually accomplish today?" It's painful.


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## aivilo (Feb 6, 2018)

Sounds like being a PM would fall within the lines of what I'm used to doing. But I'm not gonna lie, when I read "paperwork" and "sales dress" I lost interest. If I'm leaving my job for a trade I better be getting dirty!


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

You can see why Project Managers get their pay: most folks don't want the position, period.

It's got good consistent pay, perks, prestige -- and few takers. (!!!)

If you're well established in the industry -- you won't be hired as a PM.

EVERY PM I've ever known was also good looking -- yes the fellas, too.

Since your father is in the trade, I suspect that he'll grease your skids into our trade rather nicely.

Good luck.

BTW, forget Residential: new construction or renovation.

You want Service Call or detail work. ( PLCs, would fit the bill. )

You should also call upon your local Poco. They are ALWAYS hiring female talent -- if it can be found.

All Pocos are under tremendous government pressure to 'balance' their workforce. ( hire women )

They never see enough applicants.


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## Valerie (Aug 4, 2018)

I'm a new woman apprentice & I freaking love it. Did you join? Don't let these guys discourage you, I don't care about getting dirty, being hot or cold, it totally beats a desk job plus the benefits & pay are amazing! Talk about equal pay for equal work...no more negotiating! You just get paid the same as the guy next to you.


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