# Is it unsafe to use 14 Awg romex as a switch leg on a 20 amp circuit?



## gilamor (Jul 5, 2007)

Is it unsafe to use 14 Awg romex as a switch leg on a 20 amp circuit?
The old timer electricians in this town say that it is ok because few light bulbs would never reach 15 amp and also the swith wich is rated 15 will burn if a higher curent aplied. An old timer 40 years in business said he passed inspection with #14 romex wire as a switch leg when the breaker for the circuit is 20 Amp.
What do you think? Is it up to code? And if not what the reson?
We at Amor Electric always use 12 awg romex on a 20 amp breaker which is a much harder to run and when you have a cuple of 3 ways maks it much more expensive (12x3 coast around $120)
Also on the same token why we all use 15 amp switches and outlets on a 20 amp circuit? This is I am sure is up to code

Ophir Amor
Amor Electric
http://www.amorelectric.com


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

I never use #14 romex on a 20A OCP. Technically, no its not a direct danger, but the code tells us to NOT put #14 on a 20A OCP, unless its a motor circuit, which is a totally different circuit, which we are not talking about.

~Matt


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Change the breaker from 20 to 15. 

Done.


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## pinpoint (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi I'm new here but here's my two cents worth....what is the length of this wire? If it is short enough you could call it a tap


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## pinpoint (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm not saying "I" would do it but????


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

#14 AWG shall not be fused for greater than 15 amps. I know what the old guys are saying, but that is not up to code. If you are trying to save cost make the lighting circuit 15 amps and then you can use 14/2 and 14/3.


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## pinpoint (Jan 3, 2010)

Think about the size of the conductors that they are using inside fixtures these days


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## pinpoint (Jan 3, 2010)

Having said the above.

No way would I do it...it just ain't worth cutting corners like that


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## pinpoint (Jan 3, 2010)

Hey Murph, You got much snow up there yet?


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

pinpoint said:


> Think about the size of the conductors that they are using inside fixtures these days


Size of conductor in the fixture is meaningless, they are UL listed. They are short with no voltage drop.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Size of conductor in the fixture is meaningless, they are UL listed. They are short with no voltage drop.


Exactly. 
Besides, fixture wires have a totally different ampacity chart.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

pinpoint said:


> Think about the size of the conductors that they are using inside fixtures these days


 
There is a seperate chart for fixture wire, that has nothing to do with branch circuits, or taps


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

Is it code? NO

Is it safe? Yes (unless some joker adds 15 lights off the SW over the next 25 yrs...then maybe)


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

pinpoint said:


> Hi I'm new here but here's my two cents worth....what is the length of this wire? If it is short enough you could call it a tap


You can call it a tap but it is not a tap conductor. I believe this is where the misunderstanding of using 14 as a switch leg originated. It is not correct.

You cannot use #14 on a 20 amp circuit for the switch leg. :no:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Stop running lighting circuits in 12awg if you want to save a nickel or two.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

nolabama said:


> Stop running lighting circuits in 12awg if you want to save a nickel or two.


Yeah really. Use #14 for lighting. There is nothing I hate more than lighting in #12.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Beside it being a code violation as mention already, here's the fault with running #14 on a 20amp lighting circuit. In case of a fault, there will be #14 wire exposed to 20amps of current! I think that would be a liability issue for the installer.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

pinpoint said:


> Hi I'm new here but here's my two cents worth....what is the length of this wire? If it is short enough you could call it a tap


 
Call it a tap then. Now follow the tap rules. :whistling2:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Call it a tap then. Now follow the tap rules. :whistling2:


So it still is not code compliant boo


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nolabama said:


> So it still is not code compliant boo


That's my point. If you call it a tap, it must follow the tap rules, which it cannot do.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Roger123 said:


> Beside it being a code violation as mention already, here's the fault with running #14 on a 20amp lighting circuit. In case of a fault, there will be #14 wire exposed to 20amps of current!


In the case of a ground fault or short circuit the wire will be subject to hundreds or perhaps even thousands of amps of fault current (depending on the characteristics of the breaker protecting it), which well exceeds the rating of #14 and #12. 

It is possible that the #14 could carry 20 amps normally or even under overload conditions, which is fine because #14 is rated for 20 amps anyway. So while this installation is a code violation it is not one that I consider highly dangerous.


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

gilamor said:


> Is it unsafe to use 14 Awg romex as a switch leg on a 20 amp circuit?
> The old timer electricians in this town say that it is ok because few light bulbs would never reach 15 amp and also the swith wich is rated 15 will burn if a higher curent aplied. An old timer 40 years in business said he passed inspection with #14 romex wire as a switch leg when the breaker for the circuit is 20 Amp.
> What do you think? Is it up to code? And if not what the reson?
> We at Amor Electric always use 12 awg romex on a 20 amp breaker which is a much harder to run and when you have a cuple of 3 ways maks it much more expensive (12x3 coast around $120)
> ...


Why are you running 20a lighting circuits?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Wireless said:


> Why are you running 20a lighting circuits?


He's more than likely adding a switch and lights to an existing 20a circuit. Prolly pulling the power from a receptacle.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> He's more than likely adding a switch and lights to an existing 20a circuit. Prolly pulling the power from a receptacle.


Maybe not. I'm a little confused about this thread now after re-reading it. Pretty catchy music on his website though.:whistling2::laughing:


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Peter D said:


> In the case of a ground fault or short circuit the wire will be subject to hundreds or perhaps even thousands of amps of fault current (depending on the characteristics of the breaker protecting it), which well exceeds the rating of #14 and #12.
> 
> It is possible that the #14 could carry 20 amps normally or even under overload conditions, which is fine because #14 is rated for 20 amps anyway. So while this installation is a code violation it is not one that I consider highly dangerous.


I agree.:thumbsup:

Chris


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Roger123 said:


> Beside it being a code violation as mention already, here's the fault with running #14 on a 20amp lighting circuit. In case of a fault, there will be #14 wire exposed to 20amps of current! I think that would be a liability issue for the installer.


 
Typical instantaneous trip for a 15 amp circuit breaker is 90-150 amps; typical instantaneous trip for a 20 amp circuit breaker is 120-200 amps. I put several hundred amps on #12 regularly after a few trips it tends to get warm a few more trips and the insulation with start to sag.


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## emjay (Dec 30, 2009)

gilamor said:


> Is it unsafe to use 14 Awg romex as a switch leg on a 20 amp circuit?
> The old timer electricians in this town say that it is ok because few light bulbs would never reach 15 amp and also the swith wich is rated 15 will burn if a higher curent aplied. An old timer 40 years in business said he passed inspection with #14 romex wire as a switch leg when the breaker for the circuit is 20 Amp.
> What do you think? Is it up to code? And if not what the reson?


240.4(D)(3) says no.


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

No #14awg allowed in the city of Austin. Even for switchlegs. IMO I think that the if #14 is used for a switchleg, then the OCP should be 15 amps. If the HR is #12, then just use it for the SL. The circuit can then be protected by a 20 amp breaker. No worries if Hack the Handyman adds 50 incandesant lights two years down the road. The circuit and OCP is sized properley.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> No #14awg allowed in the city of Austin.


Austin is stupid then.


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Austin is stupid then.


Whatever...:blink: BTW, aren't you from Oklahoma??


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> Whatever...:blink: BTW, aren't you from Oklahoma??



No, not even close.

A city that restricts a perfectly safe wiring method is shortsighted and yes, stupid. Plain and simple.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> No, not even close.
> 
> A city that restricts a perfectly safe wiring method is shortsighted and yes, stupid. Plain and simple.


That would make Chicago really stupid to ban romex .. right?

I think it is....


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Peter D said:


> No, not even close.
> 
> A city that restricts a perfectly safe wiring method is shortsighted and yes, stupid. Plain and simple.


Maybe I'll bring that to the inspector's attention next time.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> That would make Chicago really stupid to ban romex .. right?


Definitely. :yes:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

switchleg said:


> Maybe I'll bring that to the inspector's attention next time.


Just have him join this forum and we will "educate" him


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> Maybe I'll bring that to the inspector's attention next time.


Can he provide a good reason why #14 should not be allowed?


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Peter D said:


> In the case of a ground fault or short circuit the wire will be subject to hundreds or perhaps even thousands of amps of fault current (depending on the characteristics of the breaker protecting it), which well exceeds the rating of #14 and #12.
> 
> It is possible that the #14 could carry 20 amps normally or even under overload conditions, which is fine because #14 is rated for 20 amps anyway. So while this installation is a code violation it is not one that I consider highly dangerous.


You said it yourself.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> You said it yourself.



What on earth are you talking about? :blink: Nothing I said is a reason why #14 shouldn't be allowed.


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Peter D said:


> What on earth are you talking about? :blink: Nothing I said is a reason why #14 shouldn't be allowed.


14awg is for wimps. So are 15 amp circuits.:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> 14awg is for wimps. So are 15 amp circuits.:thumbsup:


I guess if that's the best you can do then I stand by my original statement that prohibiting #14 in an entire city is stupid.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Cell Phones*

I think Cell Phones kill people by a factor of about 1000-1 than a 12-14gauge Switchleg would?


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

Matter of fact, when was the last fire that killed someone from a 12 to 14 gauge switchleg tap?


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Peter D said:


> I guess if that's the best you can do then I stand by my original statement that prohibiting #14 in an entire city is stupid.


I agree. I just think that if a 14 is run as a SL then it should be on a 15 amp breaker. Thats all.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

I don't disagree to that remark ...although Brian said a 15 amp breaker can carry 25 amps all day and 150 amps instantaneous


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> I agree. I just think that if a 14 is run as a SL then it should be on a 15 amp breaker. Thats all.


Yes, it should. The NEC requires it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> Matter of fact, when was the last fire that killed someone from a 12 to 14 gauge switchleg tap?


Statistics like that are usually recorded as a simple electrical fire.


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Here is something else stupid. Time clocks on water heater circuits in a residential dwelling.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> Here is something else stupid. Time clocks on water heater circuits in a residential dwelling.



That might be a poco requirement.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

switchleg said:


> Here is something else stupid. Time clocks on water heater circuits in a residential dwelling.



Nice- right there wih 'peak meters' (residential).
Both started in the 70' and vanished in the 80'.


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Peter D said:


> That might be a poco requirement.


 What if the HO wants to shower at 3am?? If the reason for the time clocks is to save energy then why not implement gas instahots?
Too much time on these people hands I guess.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> What if the HO wants to shower at 3am?? If the reason for the time clocks is to save energy then why not implement gas instahots?
> Too much time on these people hands I guess.


I though the point of the time clocks was so the water heater only operates at night/ off peak?


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## switchleg (Sep 22, 2008)

Peter D said:


> I though the point of the time clocks was so the water heater only operates at night/ off peak?


Well then what about during peak hrs? Everyone gets a cold shower??


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

switchleg said:


> Well then what about during peak hrs? Everyone gets a cold shower??


When they did the off peak thing here they use 50 gallon and larger tanks that had a special stone in them to keep the water hot all day.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

switchleg said:


> Here is something else stupid. Time clocks on water heater circuits in a residential dwelling.


 
Makes more sense to put on one of those water heater blankets instead of a time clock.

Heating room temperature water burns many KW's


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Save*

Here's another great Kvar energy saver


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> Here's another great Kvar energy saver



Those make good paperweights.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Those make good paperweights.


 
Collect enough of them and you have a boat anchor.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

Yeah, but they have a 49 yr ROI


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> Yeah, but they have a 49 yr ROI


 
I'd say you're off by about 251 years,


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## gilamor (Jul 5, 2007)

*Check this: (2002 NEC) 551.43 Branch-Circuit Protection.*

(B) Protection for Smaller Conductors. A 20-ampere fuse or circuit breaker shall be permitted for protection for fixtures, including a luminaire leads, cords, or small appliances, and 14 AWG tap conductors, not over 1.8 m (6 ft) long for recessed luminaires (lighting fixtures).
ophir
Amor Electric
310-699-9444
http://www.amorelectric.com


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## gilamor (Jul 5, 2007)

*Check this: (2002 NEC) 551.43 Branch-Circuit Protection.*

(B) Protection for Smaller Conductors. A 20-ampere fuse or circuit breaker shall be permitted for protection for fixtures, including a luminaire leads, cords, or small appliances, and 14 AWG tap conductors, not over 1.8 m (6 ft) long for recessed luminaires (lighting fixtures).
ophir
Amor Electric
310-699-9444
http://www.amorelectric.com


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

All you rope jockeys out there, electric meter= mech. device! Only reads the highest leg.Balance you loads. Save your customers money. If the load is not balanced lets talk about how I can save you money,with a device between the line and the load.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

smitty1358 said:


> All you rope jockeys out there, electric meter= mech. device! Only reads the highest leg.Balance you loads. Save your customers money. If the load is not balanced lets talk about how I can save you money,with a device between the line and the load.


:sleep1:


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

smitty1358 said:


> All you rope jockeys out there, electric meter= mech. device! Only reads the highest leg.Balance you loads. Save your customers money. If the load is not balanced lets talk about how I can save you money,with a device between the line and the load.


Device?

What is this device you speak of?

Please elaborate......:whistling2:


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Peter D, you keep sleepin, you might not know how an electrical meter works, let alone how its calibrated. Mr sparkle, pm me I will give you the low down.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

smitty1358 said:


> Peter D, you keep sleepin, you might not know how an electrical meter works, let alone how its calibrated. Mr sparkle, pm me I will give you the low down.


Well, let us know when you become a millionaire from the miraculous power saving device. :yawn:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

smitty1358 said:


> All you rope jockeys out there, electric meter= mech. device! Only reads the highest leg.Balance you loads. Save your customers money. If the load is not balanced lets talk about how I can save you money,with a device between the line and the load.


I've read this several times to see if I can understand it but all I can conclude is that it was written under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Its not a big deal stupid. Its called a transformer! May be you smoked one or two when you where tryin to hook up a door bell!


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Peter D. you keep readin it, and all I conclude is your ignorance!


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

smitty1358 said:


> Peter D. you keep readin it, and all I conclude is your ignorance!



If this was such a big deal I think we would have heard about it by now.


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Heard from who? You want a view from an open mind? Or do you want to dog the idea? You want to know how it works, or just bash it cuz you aint been told about it?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

smitty - your words are like farts in the wind.

~Matt


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

smitty1358 said:


> electric meter= mech. device! Only reads the highest leg.Balance you loads. Save your customers money.


So you think you pay more for 10KW all one one leg then you would pay for 5KW on two legs?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> So you think you pay more for 10KW all one one leg then you would pay for 5KW on two legs?


I only wish it worked that way 

~Matt


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Tool, your are a tool! Go back to school. Learn about theory!


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Like I said, meter reads the highest leg.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

smitty1358 said:


> Like I said, meter reads the highest leg.


And that's a total lie.


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

And Bob yes I do. If your loads not balanced.


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Prove it Peter D. You cant. Carlon boxes over on the left next to the scotchcoat or whatever you guys call it.


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Peter D. Still lookin up meters on google?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Thats cute, even trolls on a professional electrical forum. You really have nothing else to do? You are pathetic man...

~Matt


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

I might be a troll but your not a Pro! Go get educated, in your craft!


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Burger flipper, I am sure thats not far from the truth!


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## smitty1358 (Dec 5, 2009)

*14 awg*

Tool, your game is weak dog! You should know not to come half steppin from Cali.


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## ralph (Apr 6, 2008)

Why is this thread even open ?

Professional Electrical Contractors Forem. 

Readings these replys, it doesnt seem like there is a lot of "professional" on this thread.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> So you think you pay more for 10KW all one one leg then you would pay for 5KW on two legs?





smitty1358 said:


> Like I said, meter reads the highest leg.





smitty1358 said:


> And Bob yes I do. If your loads not balanced.


Oh, now I understand .............. you are a moron.

You pay for the total wattage used not 'just the higest leg' go have another drink.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

smitty1358 said:


> Prove it Peter D. You cant. Carlon boxes over on the left next to the scotchcoat or whatever you guys call it.


You are the one that made the claim that meters work only on the unbalanced load, so you prove it.


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## Mountain Electrician (Jan 22, 2007)

gilamor said:


> (B) Protection for Smaller Conductors. A 20-ampere fuse or circuit breaker shall be permitted for protection for fixtures, including a luminaire leads, cords, or small appliances, and 14 AWG tap conductors, not over 1.8 m (6 ft) long for recessed luminaires (lighting fixtures).
> ophir
> Amor Electric
> 310-699-9444
> http://www.amorelectric.com


You do realize that applies to RV's don't you?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

My very weak understanding of electricity tells me this. If I have a single phase 240 volt system at my house then the unbalanced load would be the difference between the 2 phases. So if I balance my loads I can have 150 amps on phase A and 150 amps on phase B and I won't pay a dime to the power company. I like that.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> Here's another great Kvar energy saver


That's an "instant water heater", no? I'm on a job right now hearing a HO talking about how wonderful they are, yet it seems to me, I heard bad things about them, but I don't recall the details.

Any help?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> My very weak understanding of electricity tells me this. If I have a single phase 240 volt system at my house then the unbalanced load would be the difference between the 2 phases. So if I balance my loads I can have 150 amps on phase A and 150 amps on phase B and I won't pay a dime to the power company. I like that.


Any 240 V load is exactly balanced across both "phases" of the system. Turn of everything in the panel except some large 240 V load, and see if the meter turns or not.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

smitty, these people on this forum are way more educated than you are. please be nice to them


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

I think thats the Mobile Home section if I recall?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

smitty1358 said:


> Tool, your are a tool! Go back to school. Learn about theory!


 
*I* am the_ tool_. Git yer facts straight there, sonny!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Any 240 V load is exactly balanced across both "phases" of the system. Turn of everything in the panel except some large 240 V load, and see if the meter turns or not.


I was being facetious. I should have put a smiley in there.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

I save my customers money by bypassing one leg past the meter. Meter still turns on the other leg, bill is reduced 50%. Dont tell anyone K?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Deleted.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

smitty1358 said:


> I might be a troll but your not a Pro! Go get educated, in your craft!





smitty1358 said:


> Burger flipper, I am sure thats not far from the truth!





smitty1358 said:


> Tool, your game is weak dog! You should know not to come half steppin from Cali.


I like how it takes you 3 posts to complete your thoughts. Getting that so very important post count up huh? You are just a fool. 

~Matt


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Article 551 is for recreational vehicles.
Read the scope in the beginning of the code article first.
This article can not be applied to dwellings

Mobile homes is article 550


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## captin jimmy (Jan 6, 2010)

gilamor said:


> Is it unsafe to use 14 Awg romex as a switch leg on a 20 amp circuit?
> The old timer electricians in this town say that it is ok because few light bulbs would never reach 15 amp and also the swith wich is rated 15 will burn if a higher curent aplied. An old timer 40 years in business said he passed inspection with #14 romex wire as a switch leg when the breaker for the circuit is 20 Amp.
> What do you think? Is it up to code? And if not what the reson?
> We at Amor Electric always use 12 awg romex on a 20 amp breaker which is a much harder to run and when you have a cuple of 3 ways maks it much more expensive (12x3 coast around $120)
> ...


 In my city it is approved, but I dont like it because your putting a 15 amp wire on a 20 amp circuit


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*#14 switch leg*

The original question was, WAS IT SAFE? The answer is yes.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> The original question was, WAS IT SAFE? The answer is yes.


 
No.. the original question is, "Is it unsafe......". :whistling2:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

What happened to the OP? Gawd, I hate that.


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## emjay (Dec 30, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No.. the original question is, "Is it unsafe......". :whistling2:


followed by:



> What do you think? Is it up to code? And if not what the reson?




so in order, my answers would be:

A. probably not 
B. I wouldn't want to be responsible if lawyers got involved. If a disaster happened, the insurance co will be looking for *ANY* out. It's not worth the risk to save a few pennies worth of copper.
C. no
D. 240.4(D)(3)

Did I pass the quiz? :001_huh:


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

You Passed. Your prize is come to Ohio and get $28 per hour!


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## emjay (Dec 30, 2009)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> You Passed. Your prize is come to Ohio and get $28 per hour!


:smartass: If you make it Indiana in 2 months, you've got a deal


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

Come on Down! There ain't no stinkin residential requirments in Indiana either! haha:laughing:


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*...*

Yep. Double checked myself

Indiana

No statewide licensing of building contractors.

Contact: Building department in city or county where construction is to be performed.

Think about it. You can compete with all the truck slammers legally!:laughing:


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## emjay (Dec 30, 2009)

DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> Yep. Double checked myself
> 
> Indiana
> 
> ...


I knew there was no state licensing for IN and IL, but didn't realize Ohio was the same way. I'm sensing a pattern here...


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No.. the original question is, "Is it unsafe......". :whistling2:


I stand corrected...then it is NOT unsafe.


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## den (Mar 28, 2009)

I got interested in this post. The electric meters measure wattage and the bars go thru the meter in opposite directions so that the current doesn't cancel each other out. Most meters are 220 volts which means these type have to have 220 volts going to the potential coil which acts as a motor turning the wheel which thru gearing moves the counter. they will measure total load unbalanced or not. If there is no 220 volts to them, they will still let current pass but will not meter it. Around here, everybody uses electronic meters which are not affected by much. As a side note- voltage measurement is actually an average and the top of peak is a lot more than 120.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

switchleg said:


> 14awg is for wimps. So are 15 amp circuits.:thumbsup:


Maybe commercially speaking, but they are perfect for residences.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

den said:


> I got interested in this post. The electric meters measure wattage and the bars go thru the meter in opposite directions so that the current doesn't cancel each other out. Most meters are 220 volts which means these type have to have 220 volts going to the potential coil which acts as a motor turning the wheel which thru gearing moves the counter. they will measure total load unbalanced or not. If there is no 220 volts to them, they will still let current pass but will not meter it. Around here, everybody uses electronic meters which are not affected by much. As a side note- voltage measurement is actually an average and the top of peak is a lot more than 120.


Like 123.7? Or maybe I'm not following you.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Like 123.7? Or maybe I'm not following you.


120 is the _RMS_ voltage. _Peak_ voltage is 169.7 or so.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> 120 is the _RMS_ voltage. _Peak_ voltage is 169.7 or so.


Gotcha. 
:thumbsup:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*save*



DipsyDoodleDandy said:


> Here's another great Kvar energy saver


 That's similar to the one I built...but mine is connected correctly. That is all I am at liberty to say.


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