# IBEW Drug testing question



## erics37

jsammal said:


> I was just wondering how IBEW feels about medical marijuana use. Would this automatically disqualify me from employment?


Good question. Here's the best answer I could find from ibew.org



> A medical officer will review positive test results and must sign a release before that employee can return to work. The standards also provide that only independent, certified laboratories are to conduct all tests.


Best bet would be to call or e-mail someone with more knowledge than me and ask them.


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## erics37

Which local are you in, by the way?


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## e57

Drink lots of water.... I mean lots of it.... Eat poppy seed muffins - by the case - have one in hand during the test.... Dump some salt on your stick - flick some off in the jar...

Sure those are proven ways to beat a drug test - or at least foul one up so it doesn't count - but maybe it's the 'injury' or 'illness' that one would need pot for that disqualifies you...  Not that what you do on your own time is not your own business... But many think it's their business too...


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## gold

jsammal said:


> I was just wondering how IBEW feels about medical marijuana use. Would this automatically disqualify me from employment?


Nah, they encourage it. Weed up snoop.


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## miller_elex

You will not be allowed a pass.

End of story.


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## TOOL_5150

Stop being a pathetic loser and stop using illegal substances.

~!Matt


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## Bob Badger

TOOL_5150 said:


> Stop being a pathetic loser and stop using illegal substances.
> 
> ~!Matt


GFY

~!Bob


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## HackWork

TOOL_5150 said:


> Stop being a pathetic loser and stop using illegal substances.
> 
> ~!Matt


It's not an illegal substance for him you halfwit.


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## Loose Neutral

Some of the language in the laws prohibit actions for medicinal use.


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## brian john

I had an apprentice fail the test, he was kicked from the program and could not return to work for 30 days.

I called the drug counselor to get him back to work and was told it is not safe for anyone to be around unsafe conditions like electricity for 30 days after smoking. I fell off my chair laughing into the phone. Then I gave this fool a bit of an education about drug use and working.

after 30 days I called again the fool was on vacation for two weeks, when he returned it took him another 7 days to process the paper work for this guy to return to work.


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## Loose Neutral

brian john said:


> I had an apprentice fail the test, he was kicked from the program and could not return to work for 30 days.
> 
> I called the drug counselor to get him back to work and was told it is not safe for anyone to be around unsafe conditions like electricity for 30 days after smoking. I fell off my chair laughing into the phone. Then I gave this fool a bit of an education about drug use and working.
> 
> after 30 days I called again the fool was on vacation for two weeks, when he returned it took him another 7 days to process the paper work for this guy to return to work.


 
Obviously just book babble. With no knowledge of the real world.


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## sparky970

jsammal said:


> I was just wondering how IBEW feels about medical marijuana use. Would this automatically disqualify me from employment?


It's still illegal under Federal Law, you would be disqualified.


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## J Corrin

They way I see it is...If you are "so hurt" (LMAO) that you need medical marijuana then your are probably not fit to be doing construction work..... Get a life instead of an excuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## John Valdes

sparky970 said:


> It's still illegal under Federal Law, you would be disqualified.


And that's exactly where this country needs to start. Repeal the federal laws. President Obama has declared he has no intentions of trying to pursue this law. Its a silly law and based on racist thinking. Fact. Check the history.
Has anyone actually researched why marijuana was turned into an illegal drug? Try Googling or watching the documentary "Illegal Drugs and how they got that way". Its astounding and so stupid.
The illustrious Ronald Reagan called marijuana "the most dangerous threat to the America" in one of his "Drug War" speeches.
This war on drugs is why our prisons are so full we have to build new ones. If we let the people out that have only committed non-violent drug crimes we could be tearing down prisons, not building more.
I read somewhere there were over 13 million people in jail for non violent drug crimes. Imagine if we could just let all of them out.
But they want to keep people in jail so they can hire more cops, guards, judges and keep building multi-million dollar rehab centers.

Legalize all drugs now. All drugs including cocaine and heroin. Let nature take it's course.


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## e57

John Valdes said:


> Its a silly law and based on racist thinking. Fact. Check the history.
> Has anyone actually researched why marijuana was turned into an illegal drug? Try Googling or watching the documentary "Illegal Drugs and how they got that way". Its astounding and so stupid.
> The illustrious Ronald Reagan called marijuana "the most dangerous threat to the America" in one of his "Drug War" speeches.


wiki has a decent article(s) on it... My favorite about this is DuPont, and Hearst involvement...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_cannabis_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marihuana_Tax_Act_of_1937

Funny story: Many years ago I was a Warehouse Foreman for Mass General Hospital - one day the FBI showed up (they usually preceded large scheduled drug shipments) a drug dog alerted a container off a ship that we were getting from India... When it got there we had to have the container witnessed to be opened and inventoried by them. (if it weren't going to the hospital they would have done this at the port....) So I got the invoice and the order number looked it up.... Looked at the agent - "This ones gonna be funny, you'll never guess what you chased here..." Sheets... Bales of bed linens... A whole container of hemp bed linen.


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## Shockdoc

Would you want your employees smoking fatties driving your vehicle around? Or better yet, coping crack at 3 am in the morning with your truck. It's all about risk. personally what one does on ones own time is one's business, problem is it almost always makes it to company time. Now I need to go lite one up.


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## brian john

Shockdoc said:


> Would you want your employees smoking fatties driving your vehicle around? Or better yet, coping crack at 3 am in the morning with your truck. It's all about risk. personally what one does on ones own time is one's business, problem is it almost always makes it to company time. Now I need to go lite one up.


Pot beats beer hands down, if the slackers are going to twist one up in a company truck, they'll wash down the throat with a cool Miller MGD.


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## brian john

Loose Neutral said:


> Obviously just book babble. With no knowledge of the real world.


It is a way of life for the alcohol and drug counselors. If they turn a guy loose they lose their payment from the union and insurance money. Counselors told him more that 3 beers two nights a week constitute an alcoholic.

Seems a bit extreme.

Most of this stuff is road apples, we have spent billions on drug wars and HAVE NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.


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## Loose Neutral

I'm with valdes. Legalize it all. 1. You eliminate the criminal element 2. Now it's taxable 3. now you know whos on it and can better treat them. Legal or not they are going to use


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## Shockdoc

brian john said:


> It is a way of life for the alcohol and drug counselors. If they turn a guy loose they lose their payment from the union and insurance money. Counselors told him more that 3 beers two nights a week constitute an alcoholic.
> 
> Seems a bit extreme.
> 
> Most of this stuff is road apples, we have spent billions on drug wars and HAVE NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.


ALL those counselors are recovering additcts or alcoholics who became liberal jackasses. They lost control of themselves and now are only employable as "drug counselors". There's big money in the court mandated counseling business paid for by insurance companies, as many people as possible have a problem when they get their evaluation. It's all a scam, AA and NA are there for those who know they have a problem, it doesn't take some a hole to tell them that.


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## brian john

Shockdoc said:


> ALL those counselors are recovering additcts or alcoholics who became liberal jackasses. They lost control of themselves and now are only employable as "drug counselors". There's big money in the court mandated counseling business paid for by insurance companies, as many people as possible have a problem when they get their evaluation. It's all a scam, AA and NA are there for those who know they have a problem, it doesn't take some a hole to tell them that.



If it works to help an addict quit all good, but there is a culture of money making on the backs of addicts and the more we can include under that umbrella the more money there is to make.


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## B4T

TOOL_5150 said:


> Stop being a pathetic loser and stop using illegal substances.
> 
> ~!Matt


Are you his private doctor and have his case file on hand?? :no:

Right away the guy is a pathetic loser by your standards.. how do you live with yourself??


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## walkerj

90% of the people on jobsites in south Louisiana are high.

I would assume it is like this elsewhere.

Much better to be on medical weed than on medical xanax or valium or oxycontin or loratabs:thumbsup:

As long as the guy in charge isn't sloppy everything is good to go:jester:


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## B4T

Bob Badger said:


> GFY
> 
> ~!Bob



Not sure how you mean that... one way is Good For You.. other way is Go F.... Yourself....


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## RIVETER

Isn't Oregon a legalized state for medical grass?


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## e57

Black4Truck said:


> Are you his private doctor and have his case file on hand?? :no:
> 
> Right away the guy is a pathetic loser by your standards.. how do you live with yourself??


You can get a script while driving down many freeways near the CA/NV boarder and compare costs on the billboards.... (Cheaper in Nevada...) Once you've made the decision - stub your toe on the way in - or just 'say' you stubbed your toe...



Black4Truck said:


> Not sure how you mean that... one way is Good For You.. other way is Go F.... Yourself....


I love the enigma... I think I'll use it too... I like it... GFY.... :thumbsup:


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## HackWork

e57 said:


> You can get a script while driving down many freeways near the CA/NV boarder and compare costs on the billboards.... (Cheaper in Nevada...) Once you've made the decision - stub your toe on the way in - or just 'say' you stubbed your toe...


So what? What are your qualifications? The last time I looked, it didn't say DR. in front of your name or MD behind it. Who are you to question a doctor?

The funny part is that you can stub your toe the same way and get percocet or oxycontin, but THAT is ok, huh?


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## e57

HackWork said:


> So what? What are your qualifications? The last time I looked, it didn't say DR. in front of your name or MD behind it. Who are you to question a doctor?
> 
> The funny part is that you can stub your toe the same way and get percocet or oxycontin, but THAT is ok, huh?


The point is you 'really' don't need an injury or illness - the involvement of an MD is just a transaction - do I personally have a 'problem' with it? No... Just stating the fact that you just about get one anywhere.


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## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Not sure how you mean that... one way is Good For You.. other way is Go F.... Yourself....


If bob or I use GFY I think it is pretty obvious it isn't good for you. I personally prefer to type it out though.


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## 76nemo

John Valdes said:


> And that's exactly where this country needs to start. Repeal the federal laws. President Obama has declared he has no intentions of trying to pursue this law. Its a silly law and based on racist thinking. Fact. Check the history.
> Has anyone actually researched why marijuana was turned into an illegal drug? Try Googling or watching the documentary "Illegal Drugs and how they got that way". Its astounding and so stupid.
> The illustrious Ronald Reagan called marijuana "the most dangerous threat to the America" in one of his "Drug War" speeches.
> This war on drugs is why our prisons are so full we have to build new ones. If we let the people out that have only committed non-violent drug crimes we could be tearing down prisons, not building more.
> I read somewhere there were over 13 million people in jail for non violent drug crimes. Imagine if we could just let all of them out.
> But they want to keep people in jail so they can hire more cops, guards, judges and keep building multi-million dollar rehab centers.
> 
> Legalize all drugs now. All drugs including cocaine and heroin. Let nature take it's course.


 

There's an EXACT reason why marijuana and hallucinogens are illegal.


Ever hear the term......."Free your mind and you azz will follow"? HELL, we can't have people thinking on their own free will, they must be structured through what they learn from our books and traditions! 

*BULLSH*T!!!!!!!!!!!*


Substances of that sort allows one to think "outside of the box", especially when it comes to structure and authority.


Sh*t, LSD wasn't illegal until '68, many of you were born before then.

'Nam was happening, and this ergot chit these kids were ingesting was comprising our countries stand on the matter. WE CAN'T HAVE THAT, by golly!!!!!

I don't think just anyone should be allowed to smoke grass, especially these younger fr*ggers with no respect for others, but that's not the point. Alcohol and tobacco is so much more harmful to humans than marijuana it's not even funny. I won't get into examples, I'll leave it at that.


My point for the post was in response to TOOL_5150's reply. I am sure you're a great person, you have some great posts, but you can't haul off and state that every single person that smokes grass is a complete loser. I can take you to some of the local bars and show you alot more "waste cases".


What if your Doc writes you a script for Valium for when your anxiety is out of control? Are you supposed to stay home?

Marijuana is not illegal because it is physically harmful or addictive. If that was the case alcohol and tobacco would be the grim reaper, but it's perfectly acceptable in the good ol' USA. Look at the DWI fatalities. Look at cancers from tobacco. Now go do some HARD, HARD digging on deaths or suicides directly and solely related to marijuana use.

Needtheless to say, I won't be waiting around:whistling2:


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## HackWork

e57 said:


> The point is you 'really' don't need an injury or illness - the involvement of an MD is just a transaction - do I personally have a 'problem' with it? No... Just stating the fact that you just about get one anywhere.


As I said, it's the same for other drugs, most of them much stronger than weed.


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## Wingnut

A doctor can prescribe this crap and Marijuana is illegal is absurd!


_"this drug can infrequently cause temporary memory loss_..."


_"withdrawal symptoms (such as __anxiety__, abdominal cramps, __vomiting__, sweating, or shakiness) may occur if you suddenly stop using this medication. To prevent withdrawal reactions, your doctor may reduce your dose gradually. Consult your doctor or pharmacist for more details_" 

_That sounds a lot better then the munchies:no:_


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## RIVETER

The typical marijuiana that is grown today is approximately 67% stronger as far as the drug is concerned, than was available back in the 60's and 70's. I am not really sure what that is supposed to do...hook a person...make them go on to stronger drugs? What I do believe is that the use of it by younger people who are still learning about life and the ups and downs of life creates a problem. If, when you are young, a problem occurs and you can avoid dealing with it by smoking grass, you lose an important building block of your maturing process. If you don't conquer the various small incidents that all young people are faced with on a daily basis it can form a sort of an emotional immaturity.


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## 76nemo

RIVETER said:


> The typical marijuiana that is grown today is approximately 67% stronger as far as the drug is concerned, than was available back in the 60's and 70's. I am not really sure what that is supposed to do...hook a person...make them go on to stronger drugs? What I do believe is that the use of it by younger people who are still learning about life and the ups and downs of life creates a problem. If, when you are young, a problem occurs and you can avoid dealing with it by smoking grass, you lose an important building block of your maturing process. If you don't conquer the various small incidents that all young people are faced with on a daily basis it can form a sort of an emotional immaturity.


 
101% agreed on that, except for the second sentence. Grass is so much stronger now because people have perfected how to grow it. You could still make hash oil twenty years ago that would make todays grass seem dull potency wise.


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## miller_elex

RIVETER said:


> Isn't Oregon a legalized state for medical grass?


It is, but drug tests do not take into account your medical status.

Listen man... most, and I say most, not all, most medical marijuana card holders are existing dope smokers who look like they congregate on the lowest rung of society.

Personally, I believe pot to be far superior and healthier to alcohol and tobacco, but the powers that be disagree and have their reasons.


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## miller_elex

RIVETER said:


> The typical marijuiana that is grown today is approximately 67% stronger as far as the drug is concerned, than was available back in the 60's and 70's.


600% stronger would be an understatement. The crap my cousin grows will make a regular smoker's knees buckle on the first toke.


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## RIVETER

miller_elex said:


> It is, but drug tests do not take into account your medical status.
> 
> Listen man... most, and I say most, not all, most medical marijuana card holders are existing dope smokers who look like they congregate on the lowest rung of society.
> 
> Personally, I believe pot to be far superior and healthier to alcohol and tobacco, but the powers that be disagree and have their reasons.


I am not in favor of smoking, but if it was not against the law in the state I believe that I would fight if I was turned down.


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## Bob Badger

Black4Truck said:


> Not sure how you mean that... one way is Good For You.. other way is Go F.... Yourself....


Well I don't consider myself a pathetic loser so ... :whistling2:


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## RIVETER

miller_elex said:


> 600% stronger would be an understatement. The crap my cousin grows will make a regular smoker's knees buckle on the first toke.


Do you smoke it?


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## miller_elex

RIVETER said:


> Do you smoke it?


Just a minute now... I got Dominoes on the line taking my order. :blink:


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## brian john

I do not smoke or drink but if I had my druthers, I'd be doing a bong hit right now.


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## Bob Badger

RIVETER said:


> Do you smoke it?


Only on days that end with y.


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## brian john

Bob Badger said:


> Only on days that end with y.


Now that's funny.


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## BuzzKill

TOOL_5150 said:


> Stop being a pathetic loser and stop using illegal substances.
> 
> ~!Matt


so I guess he should just drink alchohol instead, a PROVEN killer? or abuse prescription drugs and/or anti-depressants? Get real man, weed is okay as long as it is doen NOT on the job, just like booze.


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## BuzzKill

TOOL_5150 said:


> Stop being a pathetic loser and stop using illegal substances.
> 
> ~!Matt


Your straight edge aren't you?
I respect that.


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## HackWork

BuzzKill said:


> Your straight edge aren't you?
> I respect that.


No, he is just a miserable guy who acts like a d1ck to everyone.


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## BuzzKill

HackWork said:


> No, he is just a miserable guy who acts like a d1ck to everyone.


hope you are being sarcastic, Matt's a good guy, from what I can tell.


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## HackWork

BuzzKill said:


> hope you are being sarcastic, Mike's a good guy, from what I can tell.


No sarcasm.

And his name is Matt.


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## gold

I dont care if its legal or not, I dont use it and I'm not too pc to teach my kids about social classes and the effects of consumption.

I am curious tho. Whats the difference between California breaking a federal law allowing the use of marijuana and Arizona breaking a federal law enforceing imigration? Why aren't the states who legalize it getting sued?


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## brian john

gold said:


> I dont care if its legal or not, I dont use it and I'm not too pc to teach my kids about social classes and the effects of consumption.
> 
> I am curious tho. Whats the difference between California breaking a federal law allowing the use of marijuana and Arizona breaking a federal law enforceing imigration? Why aren't the states who legalize it getting sued?


Why are sanctuary cites tolerated? Aren't they breaking a federal law.


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## Jlarson

gold said:


> Whats the difference between California breaking a federal law allowing the use of marijuana and Arizona breaking a federal law enforceing imigration? Why aren't the states who legalize it getting sued?


Cause we are keeping down a potential voter source and cutting off Cali's supply of "special plant" all at the same time. Plus they hate us cause we do their job better and look cooler doing it. :thumbsup::laughing:


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## gold

brian john said:


> Why are sanctuary cites tolerated? Aren't they breaking a federal law.


Are you suggesting partisanship in law enforcement? Never!!


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## Jlarson

gold said:


> Are you suggesting partisanship in law enforcement? Never!!


Yeah, what the hell? :blink:


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## BuzzKill

gold said:


> Arizona breaking a federal law enforceing imigration?


It's called "state's rights"...I think it's in the Constitution, you know, it's there so the Fed's don't act like some f'n dictatorship/tyrannical type of gov't.


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## gold

BuzzKill said:


> It's called "state's rights"...I think it's in the Constitution, you know, it's there so the Fed's don't act like some f'n dictatorship/tyrannical type of gov't.


Does California have more rights then Arizona?


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## BuzzKill

gold said:


> Does California have more rights then Arizona?


depends on Californian's viewpoint on that....


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## Jlarson

gold said:


> Does California have more rights then Arizona?


Hell no, that will be a cold day in hell when that freak show has more rights.


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## BuzzKill

Jlarson said:


> Hell no, that will be a cold day in hell when that freak show has more rights.


LOL, yeah sorry Cali people but that state is severely f'ed. The hippies from SF are in charge now...God help you.


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## Jlarson

BuzzKill said:


> LOL, yeah sorry Cali people but that state is severely f'ed. The hippies from SF are in charge now...God help you.


:yes::yes:


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## BuzzKill

Jlarson said:


> Hell no, that will be a cold day in hell when that freak show has more rights.


Click! Idea! Why not sell Cali to Mexico and balance the Federal budget in the process?


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## Jlarson

BuzzKill said:


> Click! Idea! Why not sell Cali to Mexico and balance the Federal budget in the process?


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I thing Buzz just solved our problems. And they have to pay for the Great Wall west too though.


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## B4T

HackWork said:


> No, he is just a miserable guy who acts like a d1ck to everyone.


He does perfect DATA connections in his sleep and already told me I am not qualified to do work in that field.. I should say with PVC boxes and Scotchkote.. his words.

As Bob said.. GFY
:thumbup:


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## HackWork

Black4Truck said:


> He does perfect DATA connections in his sleep and already told me I am not qualified to do work in that field.. I should say with PVC boxes and Scotchkote.. his words.
> 
> As Bob said.. GFY
> :thumbup:


:thumbsup:


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## brian john

Who is getting beat up now?


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## B4T

brian john said:


> Who is getting beat up now?


TOOL5150.. he likes to tell people what they can work on..


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## Jlarson

brian john said:


> Who is getting beat up now?


They are beating on Matt cause he said B$T is not qualified to crimp CAT 5 connectors and do data work.


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## B4T

It started here.. http://www.electriciantalk.com/f14/cat-6-connectors-16945/


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## HackWork

Jlarson said:


> They are beating on Matt cause he said B$T is not qualified to crimp CAT 5 connectors and do data work.


B4T has been doing electrical work for longer than TOOL5150 has been alive.


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## Jlarson

HackWork said:


> B4T has been doing electrical work for longer than TOOL5150 has been alive.


I don't have any problem with B4T doing data work, the data guy OTOH...


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## HackWork

Those EZ RJ45 connectors are kinda like Wago's or backstabbing. Some people will always be against them even if they are legal and work fine 99.9% of the time.


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## Jlarson

HackWork said:


> Those EZ RJ45 connectors are kinda like Wago's or backstabbing. Some people will always be against them even if they are legal and work fine 99.9% of the time.


The sad thing is they are like the same freaking connectors just with holes in the front and a crimp tool with a blade on it to cut the wire off. So really it's the same connector but better IMO.


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## B4T

HackWork said:


> B4T has been doing electrical work for longer than TOOL5150 has been alive.


I am 59.. been in business (35) years and doing electrical work (39) years.. still learning where all them dam PVC boxes are.. :laughing:


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## B4T

Jlarson said:


> The sad thing is they are like the same freaking connectors just with holes in the front and a crimp tool with a blade on it to cut the wire off. So really it's the same connector but better IMO.


Exactly... there is no difference... just better designed


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## BuzzKill

Black4Truck said:


> I am 59..


So how was Woodstock, man?


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## HackWork

Black4Truck said:


> Exactly... there is no difference... just better designed


I still say that there is very little use for them because you should be buying short patch cables for pennies. All homeruns should end in a female jack either in a patch panel or a wall plate.


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## Jlarson

HackWork said:


> I still say that there is very little use for them because you should be buying short patch cables for pennies. All homeruns should end in a female jack either in a patch panel or a wall plate.


But it's the principle of the thing :laughing:


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## Jlarson

BuzzKill said:


> So how was Woodstock, man?


Maybe that's how the PVC box thing started, B4T burred a time capsule at Woodstock. It all makes sense now. :laughing:


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## B4T

BuzzKill said:


> So how was Woodstock, man?


I couldn't get off work for that.. I was working for a gas station that actually washed your windows and pumped gas into your car.

The guy was a good boss and I was his only employee..


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## BuzzKill

You f'n hippie!


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## B4T

BuzzKill said:


> You f'n hippie!


My lottery number was 324.. only reason I was not drafted.

Peace brother.. :thumbup:


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## BuzzKill

Black4Truck said:


> My lottery number was 324.. only reason I was not drafted.
> 
> Peace brother.. :thumbup:


I'm busting your chops you meathead...my older brother just missed it too, had everybody worried. I knew some vets real well and they went thru hell...one buddy of mine from back then joined The Outlaws, got patched and has some crazy ass stories about that.


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## B4T

HackWork said:


> I still say that there is very little use for them because you should be buying short patch cables for pennies. All homeruns should end in a female jack either in a patch panel or a wall plate.


I still don't get this.. say I have (6) DATA stations.. why not run them directly into the router using male connectors??

Your way seems like more work.


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## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> I still don't get this.. say I have (6) DATA stations.. why not run them directly into the router using male connectors??
> 
> Your way seems like more work.


Cause 5150 said not to you hack. :laughing::laughing:


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## B4T

Jlarson said:


> Cause 5150 said not to you hack. :laughing::laughing:


He must be having wild dreams about being buried alive in a PVC box.. :laughing:


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## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> He must be having wild dreams about being buried alive in a PVC box.. :laughing:


:lol::lol:


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## HackWork

Black4Truck said:


> I still don't get this.. say I have (6) DATA stations.. why not run them directly into the router using male connectors??
> 
> Your way seems like more work.


It's simply less professional to do it that way. Do you run the cables out thru a hole in the wall and just have them hanging? 

I assume you are doing this residential, correct? In that situation with only 6 drops the best way to do it, IMO, is to run the homeruns to a coverplate. Below is a quick example I found on Google. That cover plate can be flush mounted on the wall with a data ring (Arlington LV-1 or equivalent) or (in the case of a block wall in the basement) you can bundle the cables and run them down to a surface mounted box made for this purpose. 

The same thing should be done at each drop, the cable terminated into a female jack in a coverplate and then a patch cable used to jump out to the equipment.


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## brian john

Black4Truck said:


> My lottery number was 324.. only reason I was not drafted.
> 
> Peace brother.. :thumbup:


What year.

135 and I THINK they took up to 126.


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## brian john

Black4Truck said:


> I couldn't get off work for that.. I was working for a gas station that actually washed your windows and pumped gas into your car.
> 
> The guy was a good boss and I was his only employee..


Man we followed the same career path from the early days. Folks would come in and buy a dollars worth of gas.


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## John Valdes

brian john said:


> Most of this stuff is road apples, we have spent billions on drug wars and HAVE NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.


We do too! Overflowing prizons of non-violent drug offenders. 



Loose Neutral said:


> I'm with valdes. Legalize it all. 1. You eliminate the criminal element 2. Now it's taxable 3. now you know whos on it and can better treat them. Legal or not they are going to use


That's the catch. Maybe legalization is the wrong word. If we let the government take control of the almighty bud, what would they do to it. Regulate THC content? Tax it? How would it be dispensed? We have to be very careful of what we ask for. I know people in California that can get medical marijuana cards, but don't. They pay less black market.



Shockdoc said:


> ALL those counselors are recovering additcts or alcoholics who became liberal jackasses. They lost control of themselves and now are only employable as "drug counselors". There's big money in the court mandated counseling business paid for by insurance companies, as many people as possible have a problem when they get their evaluation. It's all a scam, AA and NA are there for those who know they have a problem, it doesn't take some a hole to tell them that.


I agree with every single thing you said except the part about be "liberal jackasses". There are plenty conservative jackasses to be accounted for too.



walkerj said:


> 90% of the people on jobsites in south Louisiana are high.
> I would assume it is like this elsewhere.
> Much better to be on medical weed than on medical xanax or valium or oxycontin or loratabs:thumbsup:
> As long as the guy in charge isn't sloppy everything is good to go:jester:


I highly doubt your comment has any merit. 90%? Also, would it be so bad that your coworker took pain medications or anti anxiety medicine if taken as prescribed? I know people that take pain medicine to be able to work and be productive. People in real pain do not get high from pain medicines. They get relief.
Your last sentence makes no sense. At least it makes no sense to me as I do not think anyone should be high at work.




RIVETER said:


> The typical marijuiana that is grown today is approximately 67% stronger as far as the drug is concerned, than was available back in the 60's and 70's. I am not really sure what that is supposed to do...hook a person...make them go on to stronger drugs? What I do believe is that the use of it by younger people who are still learning about life and the ups and downs of life creates a problem. If, when you are young, a problem occurs and you can avoid dealing with it by smoking grass, you lose an important building block of your maturing process. If you don't conquer the various small incidents that all young people are faced with on a daily basis it can form a sort of an emotional immaturity.


Marijuana IMO is not suited for young people. Why bring kids into this. If it was legal or treated in a legal manner, most kids would lose interest in it. By all means treat pot like booze. Adults only.



miller_elex said:


> It is, but drug tests do not take into account your medical status.
> Listen man... most, and I say most, not all, most medical marijuana card holders are existing dope smokers who look like they congregate on the lowest rung of society.
> Personally, I believe pot to be far superior and healthier to alcohol and tobacco, but the powers that be disagree and have their reasons.


I agree. It's too easy to get a medical card. Anyone can get one from what I understand. My friend out there says that one of the reasons he would rather just get his from unregulated sources. Cheaper too!



brian john said:


> I do not smoke or drink but if I had my druthers, I'd be doing a bong hit right now.


Me too. But I can't. Because I go to a pain management doctor, I can be drug tested randomly. It's in the pain management contract. It's designed to make sure you are actually taking your medicines and not selling them. Illegal drugs will get you kicked out. I have been with this doctor for one full year and have not been tested once. But you just never know. It sucks big time as I know pot could alleviate some of my conditions. I am hoping for an alternative so I am not policed like I am now.



BuzzKill said:


> so I guess he should just drink alchohol instead, a PROVEN killer? or abuse prescription drugs and/or anti-depressants? Get real man, weed is okay as long as it is doen NOT on the job, just like booze.


Hey. I agree with every single word! 



BuzzKill said:


> LOL, yeah sorry Cali people but that state is severely f'ed. The hippies from SF are in charge now...God help you.


Better the hippies than gun toting red necks from the south. It's the ones that do not live out west that make these stupid comments. They do not live the life of the 9mm.


----------



## brian john

A good approach was post NIxon, pre-Regan just ignore it. All the Nancy Reagan just say know crap and attacks on drugs lead to organized crime taking over the distribution, remember 15.00 dollar an OZ. pot? Once they cracked down on pot the price went through the roof.


----------



## B4T

brian john said:


> Man we followed the same career path from the early days. Folks would come in and buy a dollars worth of gas.


This gas station was in a poor area.. $1.00 sales were common.

Learned all about multi-tasking, customer service, mechanical things, and making change.

You go into a store now and the kids don't count the change back to you.. they just shove it in your hands... NEXT.. :no:


----------



## B4T

brian john said:


> What year.
> 
> 135 and I THINK they took up to 126.


I graduated HS in 69..


----------



## erics37

brian john said:


> A good approach was post NIxon, pre-Regan just ignore it. All the Nancy Reagan just say know crap and attacks on drugs lead to organized crime taking over the distribution, remember 15.00 dollar an OZ. pot? Once they cracked down on pot the price went through the roof.


Imagine how much money would be saved not having to enforce arcane drug prohibition laws. Totally crazy.

I've smoked weed a handful of times and didn't like it (I have a tendency to take too big of a hit and go catatonic for a while. Plus Oregon weed is fairly potent; much stronger than that Mexican ditch weed that doesn't do anything but give you a headache) but I recognize that it's pretty much harmless when done on your own time.

The whole thing is a crock.


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Exactly... there is no difference... just better designed


Only thing is that crimps for solid and stranded are different. And I would not run solid out to equipment or make patch cords with it.


----------



## ohmdoctor

jsammal said:


> I was just wondering how IBEW feels about medical marijuana use. Would this automatically disqualify me from employment?


 
This post has obviously hit a nerve with a lot of people!

I would like to start off with the original question this mandate was brought down by the I.O. But and this is a big one it is up to YOUR local to come up with a policy and enforce it! So only your B.A. that is in charge of enforcing the policy can actually answer that question!! So smoke a Fatty and get up the never to call your hall and ask hell use a name of someone you don't like in the name of anonymity...JK

To Tool 5150 as Bob Said GFY!!!


On a personal note I was diagnosed with cancer last year and pot ( I'm sorry my medication) helped me deal with the side affects of the Radiation sickness, eating, etc... yes here in California it could be considered easy to get a recommendation, but when I went and got my recommendation from Dr. Toke ( no joke that was his name) kinda funny I had to prove a condition that would justify this recommendation and only when I showed him my medical documents that showed I was diagnosed with Non hog-kins Lymphoma did I receive this recommendation!!! So all of you who don't live in California should really learn what your talking about!!!

As far as the prohibition of Marijuana we all know it has been a great Failure just like the 20's it hasn't worked I think one day when the circumstances are right it will too be lifted and all the closet smokers out there will be free from being criminalized for something so natural and a hell of a lot less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes!!!!!!


Now as far as selling California to Mexico Really???????
sounds like a great Idea lets give up the Worlds Tenth strongest economy!!!


To all my Electrical Friends out there as Ben Harper once said....

Let us burn one, from end to end.
And pass it over to me my friend.
Burn it long, but burn it slow,
to light me up before I go.

If you don't like my fire, then don't come around.
Cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes I'm gonna burn one down

My choice is what i chose to do;
and if I'm causing no harm,
it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you chose to be;
and if your causing no harm, then your alright with me.

If you don't like my fire, then don't come around, cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes I'm gonna burn one, down.

Herb the gift, from the Earth,
and what's from the earth is of the greatest worth.
So before u knock it, try it first.
and you'll see it's a blessing and it's not a curse.
If you don't like my fire, then don't come around,
cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes I'm gonna burn one.


----------



## Shockdoc

Black4Truck said:


> I graduated HS in 69..


 Which HS,Sachem?


----------



## brian john

Black4Truck said:


> I graduated HS in 69..


70 here,,,,,,,,,


----------



## B4T

Shockdoc said:


> Which HS,Sachem?


Deer Park


----------



## Shockdoc

back in the 80's the secretary of the big name company where I worked supplied all the crews with our bags, she made more money a week than the boss.


----------



## Shockdoc

Black4Truck said:


> Deer Park


 I'm a Deer Park native out of the 80's


----------



## brian john

Shockdoc said:


> I'm a Deer Park native out of the 80's


I like your water.


----------



## B4T

brian john said:


> I like your water.


:laughing::laughing:


----------



## HackWork

brian john said:


> I like your water.


I tell Polish people that all the time. They always look at me funny :blink:


----------



## Shockdoc

brian john said:


> I like your water.


 True Deer Park tap water has more contaminants than a roadside puddle. One thing I never drank, ironically we did purchase Deer Park water at the Supermarket.


----------



## B4T

Shockdoc said:


> True Deer Park tap water has more contaminants than a roadside puddle. One thing I never drank, ironically we did purchase Deer Park water at the Supermarket.


Lots of industry dumping waste in the ground along Grand Blvd. E/O Commack Road and the salvage yards on Long Island Ave.

Did you watch when they blew up Pilgrim State Hospital?


----------



## Shockdoc

Black4Truck said:


> Lots of industry dumping waste in the ground along Grand Blvd. E/O Commack Road and the salvage yards on Long Island Ave.
> 
> Did you watch when they blew up Pilgrim State Hospital?


We used to love that place as kids(pilgrim) . I still remember a halloween party we threw there in my teens. I missed the take down of the place. I used to live on E5th by Golden Ave.


----------



## brian john

HackWork said:


> I tell Polish people that all the time. They always look at me funny :blink:


Took me 5 minutes.


----------



## HackWork

brian john said:


> Took me 5 minutes.


But you got it, right? :thumbsup:


----------



## brian john

Shockdoc said:


> We used to love that place as kids(pilgrim) . I still remember a halloween party we threw there in my teens. I missed the take down of the place. I used to live on E5th by Golden Ave.


Hey how about you two swap phone numbers and quit dragging us down.


----------



## B4T

Shockdoc said:


> We used to love that place as kids(pilgrim) . I still remember a halloween party we threw there in my teens. I missed the take down of the place. I used to live on E5th by Golden Ave.


Not too far from where I used to live.. Commack Road N/O Bay Shore rd.

They put the Tanger Mall up and traffic is a nightmare there now.

Then they took down the diner and junk yard just north of the tracks to put up more empty stores.

Do you remember the horse farm on Bay Shore Rd. in back of the old DP movies and A&P?

They put condos in there.. the people who live on the side street have a tiny back yard with HUGE buildings as a view..


----------



## B4T

brian john said:


> Hey how about you two swap phone numbers and quit dragging us down.



Anyway... when is the Disco Duck coming back..


----------



## JacksonburgFarmer

Uh....If you were trying to get a job with me....IT WOULD BE NO. I dont care what the reason, If you are on drugs, you are not going to be working for me.


----------



## HackWork

JacksonburgFarmer said:


> Uh....If you were trying to get a job with me....IT WOULD BE NO. I dont care what the reason, If you are on drugs, you are not going to be working for me.


What do you consider "drugs"?


----------



## B4T

What about cigarettes??

Smokers need to have a break almost every hour or they have withdrawal..

Do you give them "extra" breaks or tell them to suck it up or quit??


----------



## HackWork

Black4Truck said:


> What about cigarettes??
> 
> Smokers need to have a break almost every hour or they have withdrawal..
> 
> Do you give them "extra" breaks or tell them to suck it up or quit??


I don't give any smokers extra breaks when I run work. If they can't smoke where they are working then they have to wait until break or lunch.


----------



## Shockdoc

What constitutes drug use? the use of recreational drugs such as pot . the use of prescribed pain killers such as oxycotin,vicadan, perkosets. the use of hard drugs such as dope, crack or meth. I don't know many employee type electricians who do not use any of the above lines. I've actually had an employee call me at 11pm the night before he was to be on a job telling me he just got robbed at a crackhouse and asking if he could geta cash advance and if I knew anyone whp could sell him crack. it was a true waste of a human life because the guy was really good at his work---when he got a full nights sleep and had no hangover. The sad thing is , some of the most talented electricians , plumbers, carpenters have some kind of life controlling llness. In the way of hiring, one should always keep an opem mind, buy also keep the guard up.


----------



## B4T

HackWork said:


> I don't give any smokers extra breaks when I run work. If they can't smoke where they are working then they have to wait until break or lunch.


I thought 99% of construction sites have a NO SMOKING policy because the morons throw the butts in the garbage resulting in fires after the place closes for the day.


----------



## HackWork

Black4Truck said:


> I thought 99% of construction sites have a NO SMOKING policy because the morons throw the butts in the garbage resulting in fires after the place closes for the day.


I've never heard of that.

Laborers expect us to throw everything on the floor anyway. They don't want us taking their work.


----------



## JacksonburgFarmer

HW, what do I consider drugs????? Anything you smoke that you are so addicted to you must stop work routinly to do. Any thing you snort, anything that you MUST drink everyday/night or cannot live (alchaholic) anything you shoot up, anything that keeps you from showing up, doing your job, and being a good employee.

I dont care if you smoke a cigar on the weekend, but I wont hire someone who smokes 1 pack per day. 

I dont care if you drink a beer or 3 after work, I do too. But if you get plastered every night, forget it.


----------



## brian john

For those of you concerned about what pot can do to a young users brain, I saw this today and your worries are over with this new pot.


----------



## Mike_586

brian john said:


> Most of this stuff is road apples, we have spent billions on drug wars and HAVE NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.


Sure you do....

*World Top Ten Countries by Prison Population Rates *

Country Prisoners Per 100,000 
1 - USA 686 
2 - Russia 638 
3 - Belarus 554 
4 - Kazakhstan 522 
5 - Turkmenistan 489 
6 - Belize 459 
7 - Surinam 437 
8 - Dominica 420 
9 - Bahamas 416 
10 - Maldives 414

... you've made it to number one on the list 

You're in great company guys.


----------



## Bob Badger

Mike_586 said:


> Sure you do....
> 
> *World Top Ten Countries by Prison Population Rates *
> 
> Country Prisoners Per 100,000
> 1 - USA 686
> 2 - Russia 638
> 3 - Belarus 554
> 4 - Kazakhstan 522
> 5 - Turkmenistan 489
> 6 - Belize 459
> 7 - Surinam 437
> 8 - Dominica 420
> 9 - Bahamas 416
> 10 - Maldives 414
> 
> ... you've made it to number one on the list
> 
> You're in great company guys.


Pretty staggering that the 'home of the free' has the highest prison population.

I am sure someone here will explain it is all due to the 'illegal immigrants we have here'.


----------



## B4T

Bob Badger said:


> Pretty staggering that the 'home of the free' has the highest prison population.
> 
> I am sure someone here will explain it is all due to the 'illegal immigrants we have here'.


I would bet the majority are black.. if you don't work hard in school and get a good education, selling drugs or other crimes are the only things left. 

The unemployment rate is always double in black neighborhoods than in white ones.

I don't have any stats to back it up before some smart ass asks for some..


----------



## HackWork

Black4Truck said:


> I would bet the majority are black.. if you don't work hard in school and get a good education, selling drugs or other crimes are the only things left.
> 
> The unemployment rate is always double in black neighborhoods than in white ones.
> 
> I don't have any stats to back it up before some smart ass asks for some..


Maybe welfare, but I doubt unemployment. You need to have had a job in order to get unemployment.


----------



## B4T

HackWork said:


> Maybe welfare, but I doubt unemployment. You need to have had a job in order to get unemployment.


Only thing they are good at is killing each other over what part of town they control.

Things are spiraling out of control here with gang violence so the supervisor wants to make "gang free zones" 

Known gang members are not allowed to hang out with other members or try to recruit new members.

Of course the ACLU threatens to sue because they feel personal liberties are being violated..


----------



## Bob Badger

Black4Truck said:


> Of course the ACLU threatens to sue because they feel personal liberties are being violated..


And they should sue, I don't want the government to decide who I can and cannot hang with.


----------



## B4T

Bob Badger said:


> And they should sue, I don't want the government to decide who I can and cannot hang with.


Are you a KNOWN gang member?? :blink::blink::blink::no:


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Are you a KNOWN gang member??


But what if he wants to get into a gang, now cause of the man he can't. :laughing::laughing:


----------



## Bob Badger

Black4Truck said:


> Are you a KNOWN gang member?? :blink::blink::blink::no:


Once you give the government the ability to do that to 'known gang members' (Whatever the definition of that may be) you have given them permission to do it to anyone.

I hate gangs, I wish all the members of them would vanish, but not so much I want to lose my own rights.


----------



## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> Once you give the government the ability to do that to 'known gang members' (Whatever the definition of that may be) you have given them permission to do it to anyone.


Nope I think not, look over there.
<


----------



## B4T

Bob Badger said:


> Once you give the government the ability to do that to 'known gang members' (Whatever the definition of that may be) you have given them permission to do it to anyone.
> 
> I hate gangs, I wish all the members of them would vanish, but not so much I want to lose my own rights.



So Bob.. what are the powers in charge suppose to do??

You have open warfare in the streets and people like you and me are getting hit in the crossfire.

YOU would be singing a whole different tune if bullets were flying into your house during the night.

Right away the government is going to do it to everybody.. :no:


----------



## Bob Badger

Black4Truck said:


> So Bob.. what are the powers in charge suppose to do??


Not take away _our_ rights that many died to provide us with.



> You have open warfare in the streets and people like you and me are getting hit in the crossfire.


Yeah, that is not overblown BS at all.



> YOU would be singing a whole different tune if bullets were flying into your house during the night.


I would move.




> Right away the government is going to do it to everybody..


Again, I am happy the ACLU is on stuff like this, without them we would all have less rights.

If you want a country that has less rights by all means move to one but don't F up this one.


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> You have open warfare in the streets...


Maybe a little bit of an exaggeration there. Or maybe our definitions of open war are different...


----------



## B4T

Here is the press release..

http://suffolkcountylibertyreport.com/?p=11719


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> Maybe a little bit of an exaggeration there. Or maybe or definitions of open war are different...


They have been doing a lot of drive by's in certain areas of Long Island.

Last year they had to close a school because the neighborhood got so bad.


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Last year they had to close a school because the neighborhood got so bad.


Well that probably cut into the the violence quite a bit. That took away a butt load of their planning, and dealing time.


----------



## Bob Badger

Black4Truck said:


> Here is the press release..
> 
> http://suffolkcountylibertyreport.com/?p=11719



Pretty ironic that there is a 'thank a veteran for your freedom' banner at the top but they go onto to talk about taking those freedoms away.


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> Well that probably cut into the the violence quite a bit. That took away a butt load of their planning, and dealing time.


Here is the story..


http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=256594&position=1&news_type=news


----------



## 76nemo

I must not be liked here on this forum. If I stated what you did B4T, it would have been deleted.

It baffles me the # of people who call me racist!!!! Look at my music collection. Even Badger said I must of learned "such and such" at my Klan meetings:whistling2:

I have lived in big cities, I have seen it first hand.


Wait a min., I have a cross to light


----------



## Jlarson

76nemo said:


> I must not be liked here on this forum. If I stated what you did B4T, it would have been deleted.
> It baffles me the # of people who call me racist!!!! Look at my music collection. Even Badger said I must of learned "such and such" at my Klan meetings
> I have lived in big cities, I have seen it first hand.


I like you. Even if you are a geeky single loser. :laughing:



> Wait a min., I have a cross to light


Damn our event got rained out, couldn't get the dang thing to light. :laughing:


----------



## B4T

76nemo said:


> I must not be liked here on this forum. If I stated what you did B4T, it would have been deleted.
> 
> It baffles me the # of people who call me racist!!!! Look at my music collection. Even Badger said I must of learned "such and such" at my Klan meetings:whistling2:
> 
> I have lived in big cities, I have seen it first hand.
> 
> 
> Wait a min., I have a cross to light


I am not a racist.. just watch any show about prison life and you can add up the numbers.


----------



## 76nemo

Black4Truck said:


> I am not a racist.. just watch any show about prison life and you can add up the numbers.


 
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you:thumbup:


----------



## B4T

76nemo said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you:thumbup:


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Bob Badger

I am done with this thread, I hate raciest dirt bags as much as I hate gang members.


----------



## Bob Badger

76nemo said:


> It baffles me the # of people who call me racist!!!!


An why is that? Maybe it is because the shoe fits.



> Look at my music collection.


You are f ucked, you think because you listen and like some black artists that means you are not a racist?


----------



## B4T

Bob Badger said:


> I am done with this thread, I hate raciest dirt bags as much as I hate gang members.



Nothing I posted was meant to be racist.. just the way it is out there..


----------



## 76nemo

Bob Badger said:


> I am done with this thread, I hate raciest dirt bags as much as I hate gang members.


Do you want me to correct you on your spelling like Ken, or admit I/we don't have racial issues? It's the times Bob, get on the wagon. Things are not what they used to be 50 years ago. Go ahead and join Larson, bash me all you want, but don't call me racist.


----------



## 76nemo

Bob Badger said:


> An why is that? Maybe it is because the shoe fits.
> 
> 
> 
> You are f ucked, you think because you listen and like some black artists that means you are not a racist?


 
Look it Bob, FWIW, the ****** who calls himself Eminem is as n*gger as it gets.


Ohhhhhh sh*t, wait a min. Bob, that cat is white. Cut my throat publically.


----------



## 76nemo

Bob Badger said:


> An why is that? Maybe it is because the shoe fits.
> 
> 
> 
> You are f ucked, you think because you listen and like some black artists that means you are not a racist?


 
You really think I am a "dirtbag" because of my statements????


I think you are a good man, a very bright one, but I believe the "peace, love, and happiness" sh*t is burned into your back country brain.


----------



## B4T

Bob thinks the ACLU is something good for the country.. I think they are a clear and present danger to this country.

The ACLU tried to get the Predator drone attacks stopped because we don't know the names of the terrorists plotting to kill us.. 

I have not heard one thing the ACLU has ever done that makes things better and safer for Joe Citizen.

But he does have that code book figured out.. :whistling2: :laughing:


----------



## BuzzKill

Define "racism" vs. "bigotry"


----------



## jwjrw

Hell I hate EVERYBODY.......and I really hate electricians.:thumbup:


----------



## Jlarson

Gawd can't a guy almost get killed by a baseball sized hail stone coming through a window without the forum going all to heck? I kid you not BTW.


----------



## B4T

BuzzKill said:


> Define "racism" vs. "bigotry"


Racism.. George Jefferson the dry cleaners czar.. Bigot.. Archie Bunker


----------



## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> Gawd can't a guy almost get killed by a baseball sized hail stone coming through a window without the forum going all to heck? I kid you not BTW.



I would have shot it before it came to far in.:thumbsup:


Everything OK?


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> Gawd can't a guy almost get killed by a baseball sized hail stone coming through a window without the forum going all to heck? I kid you not BTW.


What post number are you referring too?? :blink:


----------



## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> I would have shot it before it came to far in.:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Everything OK?


:laughing::thumbup:

Yeah took a window and a skylight. Yard looks like a POS. I will get pictures.


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> What post number are you referring too?? :blink:


What the all to heck part?


----------



## miller_elex

Bob Badger said:


> I hate gangs, I wish all the members of them would vanish, but not so much I want to lose my own rights.


Gang members SHOULD be summarily executed by hanging from the nearest telephone pole.

Bob, that's how they did it in the Wild West, but it was a telegraph pole.


----------



## HackWork

Black4Truck said:


> Bob thinks the ACLU is something good for the country.. I think they are a clear and present danger to this country.


 They do approximately 20% good work and the other 80% is detrimental to our country.


----------



## B4T

HackWork said:


> They do approximately 20% good work and the other 80% is detrimental to our country.


Tell me something good....


----------



## gold

Bob Badger said:


> I am done with this thread, I hate raciest dirt bags as much as I hate gang members.


What was racist, I cant find it?

I think maybe you misunderstood someones intent.


----------



## e57

Bob Badger said:


> Once you give the government the ability to do that to 'known gang members' (Whatever the definition of that may be) you have given them permission to do it to anyone.
> 
> I hate gangs, I wish all the members of them would vanish, but not so much I want to lose my own rights.


My word - Bob we're agreeing - AGAIN...



Black4Truck said:


> Only thing they are good at is killing each other over what part of town they control.
> 
> Things are spiraling out of control here with gang violence so the supervisor wants to make "gang free zones"
> 
> Known gang members are not allowed to hang out with other members or try to recruit new members.
> 
> Of course the ACLU threatens to sue because they feel personal liberties are being violated..


All right... 3rd time quoting the constitution - in 2 days.... right before the one about well regulated militias...


> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or *the right of the people peaceably to assemble*, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


It matters not - until it is not peacable. Boy Scouts or the Crips, Hells Angels or a prayer meeting - they have the same rights until no longer peacable.... I have a blue shirt - I have a red one too... Then again I used to walk around certain parts of Boston in my youth with one pant leg up - which was not a fashion statement at the time, or that I just got off my bicycle... Which did not mean I WAS a Townie, but meant I wasn't - NOT a Townie.. Get it?



Black4Truck said:


> I am not a racist.. just watch any show about prison life and you can add up the numbers.





BuzzKill said:


> Define "racism" vs. "bigotry"


Sure.... Racism Bigotry 
The two are not synonomous - but often go hand in hand...
How about a few more... 
prejudice
Xenophobia

My favorite - stereotype

I say this a lot...

"Stereotypes exist - because they do..." 

Sure there are stereotypes, and people who fit them in whatever ways that they do. BUT - if you thing everyone fits theirs - you have discounted everyone - because most of those stereotypes suck... Not everyone sucks...

Once you start applying lables to people - or only reading the cover of every book - you start shutting off your mind... (And well on your way to bigotry and unjustified hatred.)




miller_elex said:


> Gang members SHOULD be summarily executed by hanging from the nearest telephone pole.
> 
> Bob, that's how they did it in the Wild West, but it was a telegraph pole.


How exactly are you going to identify them? Who's left if we cut loose lynch mobs?

That said - not long ago - in an angry post here - I mentioned there is a whole town I think should be whipped of the map for it's own good... (Yes contradicting myself...)



gold said:


> What was racist, I cant find it?
> 
> I think maybe you misunderstood someones intent.


It's subtle - and unfortunately pervasive...


----------



## Jlarson

Gawd anyone who thought anything posted here was that racist is sheltered. (sorry bob) Trust me, it can be a hell of a lot worse.:yes:


----------



## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> Gawd anyone who thought anything posted here was that racist is sheltered. (sorry bob) Trust me, it can be a hell of a lot worse.:yes:


That makes as much sense as 'the I listen to black music defense':jester:

The fact that is not as bad as it could be does not mean it was not raciest.

Would I have picked up on it so quick if I did not already know where nemos views were?

No.


----------



## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> That makes as much sense as 'the I listen to black music defense':jester:
> 
> The fact that is not as bad as it could be does not mean it was not raciest.
> 
> Would I have picked up on it so quick if I did not already know where nemos views were?
> 
> No.


Alright did I miss some deleted sh1t or something cause I really don't see any real racism at all in this or the Janis thread.


----------



## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> Alright did I miss some deleted sh1t or something cause I really don't see any real racism at all in this or the Janis thread.


We just see things differently.


----------



## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> We just see things differently.


Ok I can live with that.


----------



## Bob Badger

Jlarson said:


> Ok I can live with that.


:laughing:

I don't see where either of us has much choice about it.:jester:


----------



## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> :laughing:
> 
> I don't see where either of us has much choice about it.:jester:


:lol::laughing:


----------



## Chris21

jsammal said:


> I was just wondering how IBEW feels about medical marijuana use. Would this automatically disqualify me from employment?



The only time my local ever tested me was when I first got in. It was part of my physical. Any other time where a test was needed was when the customer/GC wanted one. Some jobs require a drug test. Personally I have no problem with a drug test. When you first enter the IBEW you are tested you know that. So you should assume you could be tested again.


----------



## TOOL_5150

Bob Badger said:


> GFY
> 
> ~!Bob


LOL pothead.

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

Black4Truck said:


> Are you his private doctor and have his case file on hand?? :no:
> 
> Right away the guy is a pathetic loser by your standards.. how do you live with yourself??


I dont care about this guy, nor do I care about you. You sure do seem to have a hardon for me though... 

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

Black4Truck said:


> Not sure how you mean that... one way is Good For You.. other way is Go F.... Yourself....


I took it as go fu#k yourself.

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

BuzzKill said:


> so I guess he should just drink alchohol instead, a PROVEN killer? or abuse prescription drugs and/or anti-depressants? Get real man, weed is okay as long as it is doen NOT on the job, just like booze.


booze is legal, weed is not. thats all there is to it. I know alcohol does more damage.. but rules are rules!

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

BuzzKill said:


> Your straight edge aren't you?
> I respect that.


Ive never done any kind of illegal drug in my life. I see no reason to.

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

HackWork said:


> No, he is just a miserable guy who acts like a d1ck to everyone.


That too.

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

Black4Truck said:


> TOOL5150.. he likes to tell people what they can work on..


You are so funny :laughing: Trolling you is almost too fun.

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

Black4Truck said:


> TOOL5150.. he likes to tell people what they can work on..





HackWork said:


> B4T has been doing electrical work for longer than TOOL5150 has been alive.


hes an old fart.. letting a "kid" get to him. thats sad. 

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

Black4Truck said:


> I am 59.. been in business (35) years and doing electrical work (39) years.. still learning where all them dam PVC boxes are.. :laughing:


your almost 60! :laughing::laughing: Every other post from you is about hating on me.. give it up man.

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

Bob Badger said:


> I am done with this thread, I hate raciest dirt bags as much as I hate gang members.


I could just be intoxicated, which is legal in my state, but I am just not seeing the racism in the thread. Theres a lot of hate in this thread, but not so much racism.

~Matt


----------



## Bob Badger

TOOL_5150 said:


> I could just be intoxicated, which is legal in my state, but I am just not seeing the racism in the thread. Theres a lot of hate in this thread, but not so much racism.
> 
> ~Matt


As I said, if I did not already know about 76Nemos views I would not have gone off so quick.

And stuff like this



> just watch any show about prison life and you can add up the numbers.


If not raciest is just plan ignorant.


----------



## Bob Badger

TOOL_5150 said:


> pothead.


Yeah and that means what to you?


----------



## TOOL_5150

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah and that means what to you?


Absolutely nothing. I still respect you just as much as i did 30 minutes ago.

As a side note, I cant honestly say I remember making my initial comment in the first place. Too much beer, and too many days off from work will lead to that...

~Matt


----------



## TOOL_5150

Bob Badger said:


> If not raciest is just plan ignorant.


True, and I couldn't care less about the people in prison, its the people that haven't made it there yet that are troublesome to my neighborhood, regardless of race.

~Matt


----------



## B4T

Bob Badger said:


> And stuff like this
> If not raciest is just plan ignorant.



No Bob.. it is not ignorant.. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21001543/

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_American_population_is_in_jail

http://ronmull.tripod.com/racism.html

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0881455.html


----------



## slickvic277

I really don't even know where to begin. Bob what planet do you live on?


----------



## Bob Badger

I live here, and you?


----------



## Shockdoc

TOOL_5150 said:


> True, and I couldn't care less about the people in prison, its the people that haven't made it there yet that are troublesome to my neighborhood, regardless of race.
> 
> ~Matt


 Those would be your politicians and cops who are immune from prosecution.


----------



## slickvic277

Bob Badger said:


> I live here, and you?



It really must be two different places.

I would like to elaborate on my opinions but I'll be labeled a racist despite there based off my first hand experience.


----------



## Jlarson

Bob Badger said:


> I live here, and you?


I avoid here, it think it's a sucky place to live.


----------



## Bob Badger

slickvic277 said:


> I would like to elaborate on my opinions but I'll be labeled a racist despite there based off my first hand experience.



And you might be one.

I am sure I have racism in me, I try not to but it is there.


----------



## slickvic277

Bob Badger said:


> And you might be one.
> 
> I am sure I have racism in me, I try not to but it is there.



I might be a racist. I will not lie, I do have some racist tendencies but to me a real racist is someone who has nothing but hatred for a particular group of people.

I try to base each person as an individual but when it comes to the African American community I'm constantly disappointed.

Then again I grew up in the hood'. I have first hand experience with these people. I know. It's not there fault, just ask one, nothing ever is.:whistling2:


it really is a work in progress. I do try not to judge an entire group off the actions of few but in my experience it is many, many more then just a few.

I could right a book.


----------



## TOOL_5150

Shockdoc said:


> Those would be your politicians and cops who are immune from prosecution.


So true, so very true.

~Matt


----------



## Jlarson

TOOL_5150 said:


> So true, so very true.
> 
> ~Matt


Not every cop is a criminal. The bad ones are the rare exception to the rule. Saying anything else is an insult and untrue IMPO. 

Now politicians...


----------



## brian john

Man has spent oh I don't know, well lets say since time began being racist. It was basic survival, my tribe against yours. I feel this is inherent in all of us and changes to this mentality will take time.

Where I live there is a community of $900,000.00 + houses, primarily Indian's (not American Indians) live there another neighborhood middle class primarily Hispanic or Latino. Are these people bigoted for wanting to live with people of the same ethnic backgrounds, where they feel more comfortable? Just so they can live in ANY neighborhood, they can afford. But whites doing the same thing, stataments would be made about the rich lily whites.

Stating facts that are unpopular, such as 70% of prisoners are black, or the majority of killings in America are committed by blacks (not sure this is true), does not make one a racist. It supports an argument.

Some of the biggest racist in America are Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. For example they branded the Tea Party as racist because there are so few blacks. Yet at their party in Washington last week, it was primarily people of color. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM who is the racist Al? Maybe nobody!

Maybe if Al and Jessie REALLY GAVE A SH*T about the brotherhood they would concentrate on the plagues affecting blacks in America, drugs, out of wedlock births, killing each other, poor education. Washington DC spends more per child than any other school jurisdiction in America and had one of the lowest rankings. SO IT AIN'T MONEY, it is an inherent mentality of failure in their community.

Oh and the Beck Rally 10 times the people yet less trash to pick up. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM is that a racist statement?

Could it be that SOME of the beliefs of the Tea Party are NOT RACIST but more against what people of color want, such as tighter borders, less welfare, less government spending?

Until whites, blacks and others can discuss freely their feeling , beliefs and realities without one side being branded a racist, no one will benefit. Whites tiptoe around critical issues facing poor blacks because if they truly addressed the issues, they would be branded a racist.


----------



## TOOL_5150

Jlarson said:


> Not every cop is a criminal. The bad ones are the rare exception to the rule. Saying anything else is an insult and untrue IMPO.
> 
> Now politicians...


Most cops around here are worthless pieces of crap, and I wouldn't trust my life in their hands if it came down to it. All the older, better cops are being replaced by kids, who probably got picked on in school and now its their turn to get back at the public.

~Matt


----------



## Shockdoc

Jlarson said:


> Not every cop is a criminal. The bad ones are the rare exception to the rule. Saying anything else is an insult and untrue IMPO.
> 
> Now politicians...


9 out of 10 unionized cops out here are dirty. They are generally fundraisers for the government. I should know firsthand, I had to beat false charges against them.
It all changes in location, Can't say anything bad about the PA State Police.


----------



## B4T

IMO a racist is someone who hates everyone except people he believes are just like him or her.

The KKK or skinheads are a good example..


----------



## brian john

Black4Truck said:


> IMO a racist is someone who hates everyone except people he believes are just like him or her.
> 
> The KKK or skinheads are a good example..


 
As are the Black Panthers


----------



## Jlarson

brian john said:


> As are the Black Panthers


Yeah not including them them would be racist...


----------



## TOOL_5150

Jlarson said:


> Yeah not including them them would be racist...


HAHA... but, what if you hate everyone, equally? Then what would you be?

~Matt


----------



## 76nemo

Well, not going to sit back and watch stones fly...........

Bob has a point that he picked up on in different posts of mine, not just this one. He has good memory. So he's not on cloud nine ranting about me being racist over what was stated in this thread, and he made his point. Let it ride.


Now I manned up to that Bob, you don't have to make a mockery out of my "I like black music". That's not what I meant. You make me sound stupid, and I already do that well on my own, thank you. What I meant was I have studied the roots, became fascinated with them. It's where rock and roll all started and went on from there. That's when there was good music, and it wasn't no white boy singing "God save the Queen".:laughing: I do NOT dislike blacks. 

*I hate today's generation.*

I don't care what color you are. I never grew up with that crap on TV or the radio, I don't want my kids around it. You might have missed my post referring to Eminem.



But anywayyyyyyyy, Bob's referring to other posts of mine, not this one.


----------



## Jlarson

TOOL_5150 said:


> HAHA... but, what if you hate everyone, equally? Then what would you be?
> 
> ~Matt


me... saves me time and trouble. :laughing:


----------



## TOOL_5150

Jlarson said:


> me... saves me time and trouble. :laughing:


Yeah, Thats one of the reasons I live alone. :thumbsup:

Fk people.:laughing:


~Matt


----------



## B4T

TOOL_5150 said:


> HAHA... but, what if you hate everyone, equally? Then what would you be?
> 
> ~Matt


Smoeone with (6) cats and no friends.. :laughing:


----------



## 76nemo

TOOL_5150 said:


> HAHA... but, what if you hate everyone, equally? Then what would you be?
> 
> ~Matt


 

You hate everyone equally? Did you write this song Matt???:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Rxbnjrm7o


----------



## gold

brian john said:


> Until whites, blacks and others can discuss freely their feeling , beliefs and realities without one side being branded a racist, no one will benefit. Whites tiptoe around critical issues facing poor blacks because if they truly addressed the issues, they would be branded a racist.


This thread is a great example of exactly that. Vic who usually puts together a pretty tight argument even if we dont always agree had to refrain so he wouldn't be branded a racist, even tho he was anyway. Often being called a racist is a coping tool by other white people to desguise there guilt. That guilt of being white is more of an issue in 2010 then racism. Obviously it still exist but I think theres been a shift to where it exist. At one time there were klans and skins etc but today I wonder what the real per capita numbers actually were and is it possable there are more racist of color then white. Then again the word racist itself has become a trash word randomly thrown into loosing arguments when theres no substantial merit. I'm begining to loose more respect for the educated people that acuse others of being racist then the ignorant whom actually are. 

Thread closer.

Heaven forbid you mention the words White and Pride in the same sentence.

.


----------



## Shockdoc

There are two parts from every race, the productive and the skells.


----------



## The Lightman

Shockdoc said:


> There are two parts from every race, the productive and the skells.


I heard it recently put as Radiators and Drains.


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Smoeone with (6) cats and no friends.. :laughing:


No cats and I have friends so,,, perhaps you are talking about yourself. 

:laughing::laughing:


----------



## slickvic277

brian john said:


> Man has spent oh I don't know, well lets say since time began being racist. It was basic survival, my tribe against yours. I feel this is inherent in all of us and changes to this mentality will take time.
> 
> Where I live there is a community of $900,000.00 + houses, primarily Indian's (not American Indians) live there another neighborhood middle class primarily Hispanic or Latino. Are these people bigoted for wanting to live with people of the same ethnic backgrounds, where they feel more comfortable? Just so they can live in ANY neighborhood, they can afford. But whites doing the same thing, stataments would be made about the rich lily whites.
> 
> Stating facts that are unpopular, such as 70% of prisoners are black, or the majority of killings in America are committed by blacks (not sure this is true), does not make one a racist. It supports an argument.
> 
> Some of the biggest racist in America are Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. For example they branded the Tea Party as racist because there are so few blacks. Yet at their party in Washington last week, it was primarily people of color. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM who is the racist Al? Maybe nobody!
> 
> Maybe if Al and Jessie REALLY GAVE A SH*T about the brotherhood they would concentrate on the plagues affecting blacks in America, drugs, out of wedlock births, killing each other, poor education. Washington DC spends more per child than any other school jurisdiction in America and had one of the lowest rankings. SO IT AIN'T MONEY, it is an inherent mentality of failure in their community.
> 
> Oh and the Beck Rally 10 times the people yet less trash to pick up. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM is that a racist statement?
> 
> Could it be that SOME of the beliefs of the Tea Party are NOT RACIST but more against what people of color want, such as tighter borders, less welfare, less government spending?
> 
> Until whites, blacks and others can discuss freely their feeling , beliefs and realities without one side being branded a racist, no one will benefit. Whites tiptoe around critical issues facing poor blacks because if they truly addressed the issues, they would be branded a racist.



Well thought out and said. The problem is we (white people) have created this monster, so to speak. If they truly wanted to be treated like equals they would demand fairness and not freebee's and handouts.

The way I see it, the Blacks that I grew up with had a bigger advantage then me. All because there black and I'm white.


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> No cats and I have friends so,,, perhaps you are talking about yourself.
> 
> :laughing::laughing:


No cats.. and I have friends also...


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> No cats.. and I have friends also...


BS, you can't count all those PVC boxes you got in the garage as friends either...

:laughing:


----------



## slickvic277

gold said:


> This thread is a great example of exactly that. Vic who usually puts together a pretty tight argument even if we dont always agree had to refrain so he wouldn't be branded a racist, even tho he was anyway. Often being called a racist is a coping tool by other white people to desguise there guilt. That guilt of being white is more of an issue in 2010 then racism. Obviously it still exist but I think theres been a shift to where it exist. At one time there were klans and skins etc but today I wonder what the real per capita numbers actually were a*nd is it possable there are more racist of color then white*. Then again the word racist itself has become a trash word randomly thrown into loosing arguments when theres no substantial merit. I'm begining to loose more respect for the educated people that acuse others of being racist then the ignorant whom actually are.
> 
> Thread closer.
> 
> Heaven forbid you mention the words White and Pride in the same sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Hell yeah. I have seen it first hand. But for some reason blacks are aloud to be racist. The double standard really is amazing.

the biggest problem in the black community is a lack of accountability and pride.


----------



## miller_elex

I think veterans should be added to the list of minorities.

That way, contractors who hire veterans can use their numbers alongside their minority and woman population when pursuing public works jobs.

When I look outside the car and see the indigent, most of them are veterans who are down and out with no pot to ppiss in.


----------



## miller_elex

gold said:


> Vic who usually puts together a pretty tight argument even if we dont always agree had to refrain so he wouldn't be branded a racist, even tho he was anyway.


Vic is no racist. When I think Racist, I think Tom Shelly's homepage. End of story.


----------



## slickvic277

miller_elex said:


> I think veterans should be added to the list of minorities.
> 
> That way, contractors who hire veterans can use their numbers alongside their minority and woman population when pursuing public works jobs.
> 
> When I look outside the car and see the indigent, most of them are veterans who are down and out with no pot to ppiss in.


I think this is a very good idea. The Vet's are forgotten about, a lot.


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> BS, you can't count all those PVC boxes you got in the garage as friends either...
> 
> :laughing:


Even if I put little name tags on them and talk like Quasimodo, the bell ringer from Hunchback of Notre Dame.. :whistling2:


----------



## jwjrw

slickvic277 said:


> Well thought out and said. The problem is we (white people) have created this monster, so to speak. If they truly wanted to be treated like equals they would demand fairness and not freebee's and handouts.
> 
> The way I see it, the Blacks that I grew up with had a bigger advantage then me. All because there black and I'm white.


You sound like a republican vic......:whistling2:
And we agree again.:laughing:


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Even if I put little name tags on them and talk like Quasimodo, the bell ringer from Hunchback of Notre Dame.. :whistling2:


That's it, I'm calling the mental hospital and reporting you. Be on the look out for some dudes in lab coats with a net. 

:w00t::laughing:


----------



## slickvic277

jwjrw said:


> You sound like a *republican* vic......:whistling2:
> And we agree again.:laughing:


it's nice that you have dreams and hopes.:laughing:


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> That's it, I'm calling the mental hospital and reporting you. Be on the look out for some dudes in lab coats with a net.
> 
> :w00t::laughing:


:laughing::laughing:


----------



## miller_elex

Black4Truck said:


> :laughing::laughing:


You see that? Both his selves are laughing at your post!


----------



## Jlarson

miller_elex said:


> You see that? Both his selves are laughing at your post!


Yep, must be bi polar. :laughing:


----------



## B4T

miller_elex said:


> You see that? Both his selves are laughing at your post!


Life is good when you can laugh at yourself..


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Life is good when you can laugh at yourself..


The mental hospital guys there yet? :laughing:


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> The mental hospital guys there yet? :laughing:


Let me check.. nope.. just a few people with dots.. :thumbup:


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> Let me check.. nope.. just a few people with dots.. :thumbup:


What is that the effects of 'kote fume OD? :laughing:


----------



## B4T

Jlarson said:


> What is that the effects of 'kote fume OD? :laughing:


When the dot women start to look good..  :laughing:


----------



## Jlarson

Black4Truck said:


> When the dot women start to look good..  :laughing:


Hey what ever works for ya...

:laughing:


----------



## e57

TOOL_5150 said:


> HAHA... but, what if you hate everyone, equally? Then what would you be?
> 
> ~Matt


A misanthropist... (I might fall into that catagory....)


----------



## HackWork

miller_elex said:


> When I look outside the car and see the indigent, most of them are veterans who are down and out with no pot to ppiss in.


That's a load of crap that has been debunked many times. The vast majority of the homeless who say they are veterans never actually served.


----------



## miller_elex

HackWork said:


> That's a load of crap that has been debunked many times. The vast majority of the homeless who say they are veterans never actually served.


Who debunked it? Your godfather Rush who lanced a boil on his butt for deferrment? Or your other godfather Cheney who got five deferrments? I love these cons who rally around the troops, but avoided service by any means possible.


----------



## gold

miller_elex said:


> Who debunked it? Your godfather Rush who lanced a boil on his butt for deferrment? Or your other godfather Cheney who got five deferrments? I love these cons who rally around the troops, but avoided service by any means possible.


Unfortunately thats a trait of both parties, however there should be something near admirable about there cival service in itself.


----------



## e57

HackWork said:


> That's a load of crap that has been debunked many times. The vast majority of the homeless who say they are veterans never actually served.


_I'll go so far as to say even people with homes..._


----------



## miller_elex

e57 said:


> _I'll go so far as to say even people with homes..._


The one guy who was questionable that I saw, was the black dude in camo with a SEAL pin and beret jockying the register late night at 7-11.

OTOH, if you ask them a couple insignificant questions... its easy enough to smell a phony.

Alot of people I've talked to got kicked out of boot camp or just after. Then you've got retirees like DRSparky who did their twenty and retired at 38.

If you didn't complete your first enlistment, then you're not a vet IMO.


----------



## e57

miller_elex said:


> OTOH, if you ask them a couple insignificant questions... its easy enough to smell a phony.
> 
> Alot of people I've talked to got kicked out of boot camp or just after. Then you've got retirees like DRSparky who did their twenty and retired at 38.
> 
> If you didn't complete your first enlistment, then you're not a vet IMO.


Sometimes they just offer up the stink up front... Claiming you were a Seal or Recon or any of the other SF elite is one thing, but sometimes it's more subtle... 

Like a historical basis for a training doctrine, in a particular branch of service, a doctrine as old as that branch of service itself. And contradicting that... Not just a slip of terminology, but contradicting a mantra that anyone who got off the bus would have learned shortly after getting thier hair lopped off. When I hear stuff like that - I just shake my head.... Cause then I know they cant even fake it well...


----------

