# Should I be worried?



## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I only test my meater once a day now. I used to test it more but ... well, you know 😂

As any teenager what 7 X 9 is ... I don't think they teach it anymore.


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## Buck Parrish Electric (Jan 8, 2021)

Yes,


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

emtnut said:


> I only test my meater once a day now. I used to test it more but ... well, you know 😂
> 
> As any teenager what 7 X 9 is ... I don't think they teach it anymore.


There will always be that part of the population that has a natural tendency and who will always know what 7×9 is. As for the rest of them, it does not make any sense spending 3/4 of the school year drilling students on multiplication tables. 40 years have passed since I graduated school, almost… All those things I encountered in 40 years and all those times people have said “ they should teach this in school“ or even you have said “this is what kids should be learning today…“

Well, they are. The school curriculum has changed a lot in the past few decades. Yes they still teach the basics and yes they still teach students how to learn but a lot of the rote memorization stuff is out the window because it was pointless busywork. Since I went to school things like the Internet have been invented, that’s a whole Nother course in and of itself starting with typing and programming in basic computer languages and cheese a whole new industry. But the school day has not gotten any longer since you went to school and the school year has not gotten any longer since you went to school. How do you expect schools to teach students the relevant things today, if they are going to continue to teach every single irrelevant thing that you learned Way back when?


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## Viggmundir (Sep 13, 2019)

You may not be teaching ESL, but that doesn't mean that the student isn't ESL...

On the other hand, some people are not very good with spelling and grammar. Including some users of this site.

Question: Does a smoke dietector only activate when it detects a dead body killed by smoke asphyxiation?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Navyguy said:


> A student response to a posted question:
> 
> _"Q1 - What personal safety precautions would you consider prior to starting this task?
> 
> ...


I was a terrible speller in grade school. I even had something called the misspeller’s dictionary. It spelled words like they sounded and gave you the correct spelling, what a god send that book was. I remember the 7th grade english year final. I got the second highest score with 15 wrong. All spelling and multiple choice. I could write a sentence, just couldn’t spell the damn words.

As I got into my twenties, I noticed other people didn’t spell homophones very well. I was amazed. A word like vegetable, was difficult for me, but I had no trouble with to, too, or two. The word processing programs have helped me spell better, but I still struggle a little with spelling.

I also consider bad spellers as less intelligent, which is strange because of my history. I guess the fact that they don’t bother to correct their mistakes is why I judge them.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

When I got to the 4th grade the teachers had a conference and decided to put me in with the 3 kids who couldn't read or spell above 1st grade level. The reason for this is because as soon as I started in that school (public) they tested me to see if I was 4th grade level. I had just moved to Southwest Florida from Ontario. And..... the 4th grade teacher didn't even know where Ontario was located. So, anyway I spelled words differently from what these advanced 4th grade teachers did, specifically because I spelled them in perfect Canadian. And I had already taken a year in mathematics , while they were teaching the other kids in that class arithmetic still. It was sort of blowing my mind, and of course this is possibly the reason why I like to jerk the rug on those who feel superior in the midst of their ignorance. 
Anyway the good part . I spent the time teaching this one friendly kid how to read better since he was struggling so much. And later on in junior high and high school that paid off in spades as I was decidedly smaller than the bullies but Kim was decidedly bigger and faster at punching in the face than any of them were. He is the nicest guy you would ever want to know, and the last time I saw him he was in the timber jack business.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

backstay said:


> I guess the fact that they don’t bother to correct *there* mistakes is why I judge them.


Something very ironic in that statement........


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

backstay said:


> I was a terrible speller in grade school. I even had something call the misspeller’s dictionary. It spelled words like they sounded and gave you the correct spelling, what a god send that book was. I remember the 7th grade english year final. I got the second highest score with 15 wrong. All spelling and multiple choice. I could write a sentence, just couldn’t spell the damn words.
> 
> As I got into my twenties, I noticed other people didn’t spell homophones very well. I was amazed. A word like vegetable, was difficult for me, but I had no trouble with to, too, or two. The word processing programs have helped me spell better, but I still struggle a little with spelling.
> 
> I also consider bad spellers as less intelligent, which is strange because of my history. I guess the fact that they don’t bother to correct there mistakes is why I judge them.


just to show you how you have been using the wrong criteria to size a person up .....

my father in law had to drop out of 8th grade to support his family when his father died
when i first met him i immediately noticed that his grammar was a little off, his pronunciation was a little off, for instance he would say "plastit" instead of plastic
i began to question my wife in private and found out he was not educated and it was not his fault
i got to know him later on and learned he was very intelligent and was not stupid, he was simply not educated, which did limit his rise in life

i managed to learn a lesson from that 
(i say managed because i have always been socially inept, and usually insult ppl without meaning to, among other interaction problems i have)

over the last couple of years of chatting on the inet, following my kids on fake book, etc. i have learned to overlook spelling, grammar, typo's, etc. in favor of looking for the meaning of the sentence.
the meaning of the sentence in context is what i look for to judge whether i like their idea or not


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I make quite a few spelling mistakes myself, although it's not for lack of trying. I've turned off spell-check on every device I own in an effort to try and keep on top of it.

Weird observation though, anyone notice that words you've used all your life suddenly look like they're not spelled correctly, forcing you to double-check? I have that happen about once a week.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

My reading and comprehension is great.

My spelling stinks, but that’s due to the fear of a nun standing next to me with a ruler.

I have “Scenisciphobia”.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

joe-nwt said:


> Something very ironic in that statement........


I went back and found one more. Sometimes spellcheck is not my friend.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

I am also a terrible speller, but I adore "spellcheck" and try to learn from it's corrections. 

I try hard to make sure my words are spelled correctly because I don't want people to be distracted from what I'm trying to communicate because I misspelled.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

joe-nwt said:


> I make quite a few spelling mistakes myself, although it's not for lack of trying. I've turned off spell-check on every device I own in an effort to try and keep on top of it.
> 
> Weird observation though, anyone notice that words you've used all your life suddenly look like they're not spelled correctly, forcing you to double-check? I have that happen about once a week.


YES alll the time


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

When I started the third grade I was distraught to find out that luck of the draw got me the dreaded Mr. Katy, meanest teacher in the K-5 school. He was short and thin and had short white hair. Thinking back he was spry for his age - very close to retirement. 

I was a good student and fairly well behaved so I figured it wouldn't be too hard for me to avoid his wrath. Within a couple weeks I had managed to stay under the radar and relaxed. One day I brought my assignment up to his desk to hand it in, he looked at it, looked me in the eye, and tore it up and threw it in the trash. He said "If you won't bother writing clearly, I am not going to bother grading your papers. Write clearly mister!" 

I was absolutely horrified at this unimaginable cruelty. My third grade compatriots commiserated at recess, they knew he was mean, but didn't think he was *that* mean. My handwriting was pretty bad, but I was a good kid! 

When I got home and told my parents the story at the dinner table, imagine my surprise when rather than consoling me for this unprovoked devastating attack, they thought it was *hilarious*. "Well, good for him, I don't blame him! Your handwriting is chicken scratch half the time! Now stop rushing and write nicely or you're going to get a bad grade!" That was all there was to it. 

Looking back I can tell you that Mr. Katy and my parents paid enough attention to know that I wasn't suffering some motor problem or visual problem or anything else that would prevent me from writing clearly, I could write just fine when I wanted to, I was just sloppy and careless because up until that point, there had been no consequences. I'd rush because kids liked to race to see who could turn in their work first. Now that there were consequences, I slowed down, wrote more carefully, and avoided having more of my work thrown in the trash. 

I moved on to other trials and tribulations of modern mid-century childhood. I might have forgotten about the whole incident except my parents *love *telling that story. 

Adults reading this will understand Mr. Katy did me a huge favor. If any of my former employers or clients were reading this they would too. 

I'd bet a bucket of beans against a hill of gold that the person that wrote that response is the victim of bad habits developed by years of communicating with their thumbs and never being held to any higher standard. Yes, I am afraid that for me, this does lower their rating as a candidate for employment. 

Even if in their social circle capitalization, punctuation, and spelling are not important, they're not texting their friends from the back seat of their parents minivan. They're asking for a job and trying to show what they can do. They can see the person that wrote this question does care about those things. The spelling errors were likely underlined in red for them by their device and they still didn't bother to correct them. Imagine how far you're going to have to bring them along to get them to where they check their work in the real world, where mistakes don't underline themselves. "The way you do anything, is the way you do everything." You're going to have to develop them into a grown up that pays attention to detail. You're going to have to see if they can learn to communicate more clearly, if they'll even bother to try. 

So of course you know what you have to do now: print out their answer on old fashioned paper, tear it up in front of them, and tell them if they aren't going to bother to write clearly, you're not going to bother to read it. You'll be doing them a huge favor - one that someone should have done for them in the third grade.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

splatz said:


> When I started the third grade I was distraught to find out that luck of the draw got me the dreaded Mr. Katy, meanest teacher in the K-5 school. He was short and thin and had short white hair. Thinking back he was spry for his age - very close to retirement.
> 
> I was a good student and fairly well behaved so I figured it wouldn't be too hard for me to avoid his wrath. Within a couple weeks I had managed to stay under the radar and relaxed. One day I brought my assignment up to his desk to hand it in, he looked at it, looked me in the eye, and tore it up and threw it in the trash. He said "If you won't bother writing clearly, I am not going to bother grading your papers. Write clearly mister!"
> 
> ...


Perfect


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Like a couple of others have stated, spelling, grammar, sentence construction, etc is not a sign of intelligence or lack of it for sure; but to me it leaves an impression.

I personally am brutal in spelling, grammar, etc and I tend to “mumble” when I talk for some reason. I constantly work hard at that and like most anything else, the more you practice the better you get. For me it is about professional image for the trade. You need to be able to communicate with the customer in a manner that is professional and elevates the trade.

I don’t know how many times I have seen written on a panel legend – Lites & Plugs, Furnis, Fridge, A/C, stove plug, etc or have head people say “hook-up”, “cheaper”, or “safer”, etc.

It does not matter what part of the trade you are in; some might argue “I only run conduit on large jobs, I never talk to a customer”, “I always work by myself, so who cares if I can spell or form a sentence”. However when you drive up to the supplier or to the burger joint in the company logo’d van, open up the door and crap falls out because nothing is put away, you start speaking to someone in the parking lot or at the counter and you talk like you are in grade four… the impression of the trade just plummets.

Also I think there is a difference between what is going on in grade school and even high school then with grown adults in college. All of these students have been born and raised here, and while I cannot speak to any student’s specific up bringing, none that I have talked to have indicated that they are first generation Canadians or have another language as a mother tongue (French, Spanish, Italian, etc).

So for me, while it might be incorrect to make the leap, I often look at this stuff as a sign of “lack of effort” and not lack of intelligence. If you know you cannot spell, type it out first, correct the spelling and grammar, look at what could be improved, cut and paste; then submit it to the teacher / professor / journeyperson, etc.

It just seems so frustrating that all these apprentices want (and perhaps deserve in some cases) top dollar but don’t put in the effort (at least in my opinion) to do the work. I keep telling students (many have families and some life experience), there is a lot more to being an electrician, then drilling holes and pulling wire; these are not 18 year old kids out of high school that don’t even know what they want to be.

Man I sound like my parents! LOL

Cheers
John


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

There has been an incident once or twice possibly where my sentences ain't been writ so good I admits. It be my southwest Florida teachin 's I gots me once I gots out of private schoolin and into Fort Myers Beach school.... 

Like I saids , my teecher's was some real southern Einsteins . That thar was purty commons in Fort Myers in 1965.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Navyguy said:


> Like a couple of others have stated, spelling, grammar, sentence construction, etc is not a sign of intelligence or lack of it for sure; but to me it leaves an impression.
> 
> I personally am brutal in spelling, grammar, etc and I tend to “mumble” when I talk for some reason. I constantly work hard at that and like most anything else, the more you practice the better you get. For me it is about professional image for the trade. You need to be able to communicate with the customer in a manner that is professional and elevates the trade.
> 
> ...


i agree with your statements about appearances and the impression of not trying at the very least
i usually try to somewhat tailor my manner of speech, depending on whether i am talking to an office type person or a farmer who doesnt care how he or anyone else talks
but i do care about the impression i make on my customer
if they ask an electrical theory question, first i give the really simple answer, if they wanna go deeper, then i do to. i take it deep enough that they dont know what i am talking about by the time i am done

if ya caint dazzle em with your brilliance, then baffle them with your bs


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Me after school.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If you’re evaluating him on his answer, you have nothing to worry about. 

I‘m assuming the student wasn’t born here and, from my experience, most immigrants want to improve their English skills. They like being corrected. We can’t do it in a condescending manner, obviously, but in a helpful way. I have a friend who came here as a teenager. His English is as good as mine except he calls lighting “lightings”. I’m used to it but sometime I should point it out to him.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

99cents said:


> If you’re evaluating him on his answer, you have nothing to worry about.
> 
> I‘m assuming the student wasn’t born here and, from my experience, most immigrants want to improve their English skills. They like being corrected. We can’t do it in a condescending manner, obviously, but in a helpful way. I have a friend who came here as a teenager. His English is as good as mine except he calls lighting “lightings”. I’m used to it but sometime I should point it out to him.


You are right on the money. I / We test / evaluate the skill(s) and not the powers of expression. This was a very suitable answer for the question asked.

Cheers
John


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

LGLS said:


> There will always be that part of the population that has a natural tendency and who will always know what 7×9 is. As for the rest of them, it does not make any sense spending 3/4 of the school year drilling students on multiplication tables. 40 years have passed since I graduated school, almost… All those things I encountered in 40 years and all those times people have said “ they should teach this in school“ or even you have said “this is what kids should be learning today…“
> 
> Well, they are. The school curriculum has changed a lot in the past few decades. Yes they still teach the basics and yes they still teach students how to learn but a lot of the rote memorization stuff is out the window because it was pointless busywork.


Probably my biggest weakness my whole life was memorizing. I really struggled with History and Geography, because I couldn't remember all the dates and what all the Capital cities were. I still consider that kind of memorizing is rather useless.
For some reason, numbers I have no issue with, probably one of my strongest skills.

I believe knowing multiplication tables is a needed skill. You can't multiply larger numbers without knowing at least to up 9X multipliers.
Also, when you cash in 5 cases of 24's empties, if you don't know what 10x12 is, you can get ripped off 

I can't count the times when a cashier shortchanged themselves (or shortchanged the customer). Even now with the digital registers ... Change due, $14.25 , Give them .75c , and see the old deer in the headlights look😂

I play what I call "the money game" with my grandson. I always have lots of cash and change on me.
I'll put say $214.65 on the table. If he gets it right, I give him $10.
He's now EXTREMELY good at counting  (he's 7 now)


ETA... Kids are probably smarter in ways these days, until the battery dies or the power goes out !
Then the World stops ...


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Navyguy said:


> Like a couple of others have stated, spelling, grammar, sentence construction, etc is not a sign of intelligence or lack of it for sure; but to me it leaves an impression.
> 
> I personally am brutal in spelling, grammar, etc and I tend to “mumble” when I talk for some reason. I constantly work hard at that and like most anything else, the more you practice the better you get. For me it is about professional image for the trade. You need to be able to communicate with the customer in a manner that is professional and elevates the trade.
> 
> ...





Navyguy said:


> Like a couple of others have stated, spelling, grammar, sentence construction, etc is not a sign of intelligence or lack of it for sure; but to me it leaves an impression.
> 
> I personally am brutal in spelling, grammar, etc and I tend to “mumble” when I talk for some reason. I constantly work hard at that and like most anything else, the more you practice the better you get. For me it is about professional image for the trade. You need to be able to communicate with the customer in a manner that is professional and elevates the trade.
> 
> ...


Your first paragraph ended with, " leaving an impression" . This is so true. A perfect example is our political leaders on both sides. We had one guy who had mean tweets and came across as being arrogant. Then we have a guy who makes incoherent statements leaving people wondering what he said. Many leaders say things only having to back track or out right deny what they just said. You could have a complete idiot who is great at public speaking and a very intelligent person with poor people skills. Who do you think the general population will choose? The younger generation is getting brain dead so maybe bring back the basic math, which teaches logic, and the basic English which teaches communication skills and forget the fluff and wokeness.
As said by navyguy, " I sound like my parents".


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The less I say, the smarter I appear.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

better to keep your mouth shut and look dumb
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

emtnut said:


> I still consider that kind of memorizing is rather useless.


It wasn't quite so useless before you started carrying Google around in your pocket.

When I'm shopping, I can usually add up everything in the cart in my head (memorizing the prices) calculate and add the tax and have the exact amount in my hand before the cashier tells me what it is. I'm still a cash guy most of the time. The cashiers usually just stare, dumbfounded.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I think that as we get older, future generations growing up behind us are going to have different expectations for life and differing political views. I think it’s been that way forever. I look at my daughters and think, when they take over, the world will continue to turn. I’ve met some of the kids going through one of the local high school electrical programs and I’m pleased. We need to get more of them involved. I think the future is bright for these kids entering our trade. I was lazy at their age too.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I also believe that if you can’t read and write, be able to communicate effectively, as well as be able to do basic math, you’ve got problems ahead. Doesn’t mean you’re stupid, just makes earning a living tougher. The ways that this gets taught are going to change.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

I have said for at least 10 yrs, that because parents do not hold their children accountable and make them grow up
the justice system has been saddled with teaching them


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

joe-nwt said:


> It wasn't quite so useless before you started carrying Google around in your pocket.
> 
> When I'm shopping, I can usually add up everything in the cart in my head (memorizing the prices) calculate and add the tax and have the exact amount in my hand before the cashier tells me what it is. I'm still a cash guy most of the time. The cashiers usually just stare, dumbfounded.


I don't have a problem with numbers for some reason ??

I remember when me and my girlfriend first lived together, we were both 18 or 19 at the time.
I'd add up everything in the cart as we were grocery shopping. When we were getting close to how much cash we had, we'd slow down or remove things we didn't absolutely need. Nice to do it before going to the cashier, and shamefully saying you don't have enough to pay .


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## cancerskinny (8 mo ago)

Don't worry; this guy needs some rest like all students. When I was a student, it was hard for me too. They have a lot of challenges during education, and such things are nothing. Fortunately, now they have a lot of sources on website like that with study help. But they still need to learn a lot of information. I'm a teacher, so I know it is not by hearsay.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

cancerskinny said:


> Don't worry; this guy needs some rest like all students. When I was a student, it was hard for me too. They have a lot of challenges during education, and such things are nothing. Fortunately, now they have a lot of sources with study help. But they still need to learn a lot of information. I'm a teacher, so I know it is not by hearsay.


are you saying learning is harder now than in the 60's and 70's ?
how old are you ???

I am 66. i grew up in that time
i did not have Any sources of study help
i was not allowed free/play time until my homework was finished
i was sent to bed at 9pm until i was 14 years old to ensure i was rested in the morning
if i was paddled at school, i got one to match it when i got home
if i did not make passing grades, i got paddled and grounded until my grades came up


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