# Anyone familiar with the Fleas?



## crazymurph

I have been a union member for 28+ years and have never really encountered any fleas. I have heard about them and heard stories but never actually met anyone who claimed to be a flea.. I am wondering if they still exist. Comments and stories appreciated.


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## MDShunk

I think if someone was a FLE, out of necessity they would not really let you know.


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## mattsilkwood

What the hell is a flea?


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## sparks134

a bum!!!:thumbup:


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## crazymurph

MDShunk said:


> I think if someone was a FLE, out of necessity they would not really let you know.


 Is that how it is spelled?

From what I understand the fleas started out as a group of IBEW members who would help a brother who is on the road. Then they evolved into a radical group that starts trouble on the large jobs. I have even heard of violence and vandalism.


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## Celtic

It is spelled FLE.

An acronym for "Federation of Lineman Electricians".....nowadays, sometimes referred to as "Fun Loving Electricians".


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## MDShunk

crazymurph said:


> Is that how it is spelled?


Yeah, something like Fraternity of Linemen and Electricians. Don't quote me on that. You might have had a man shake your hand with his thumb all curled up on the top of his handshake. If so, you just shook hands with a FLE and he was just checking to see if you were too.


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## BryanMD

MDShunk said:


> You might have had a man shake your hand with his thumb all curled up on the top of his handshake. If so...



that cover story didn't work for Larry Craig and it won't work for you.


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## MDShunk

BryanMD said:


> that cover story didn't work for Larry Craig and it won't work for you.


I have no idea what you're talking about, since I don't know who Larry Craig is.


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## brian john

MDShunk said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about, since I don't know who Larry Craig is.


TV writer Sienfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm and a few others I THINK


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## regieleeroth

MDShunk said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about, since I don't know who Larry Craig is.


...the foot-tapping senator from Idaho? Montana?


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## steelersman

brian john said:


> TV writer Sienfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm and a few others I THINK


Hahahaha Brian. You are thinking of Larry David not Craig. Larry David is the man. Funniest mf'er!


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## brian john

steelersman said:


> Hahahaha Brian. You are thinking of Larry David not Craig. Larry David is the man. Funniest mf'er!


Thanks for the information.


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## crazymurph

Are the FLE's affiliated with the masons? I was on a large project about 15 years ago and met a guy who was wearing a large Mason's belt buckle. My partner said he was a fle.


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## Celtic

crazymurph said:


> Are the FLE's affiliated with the masons? I was on a large project about 15 years ago and met a guy who was wearing a large Mason's belt buckle. My partner said he was a fle.



Something like this:


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## crazymurph

That be the one, brother.


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## kbsparky

Whenever I am called to a house with 4-legged pets, I end up with fleas trying to get a bite out of me! 

Hate it when that happens!


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## steelersman

Wear a flea collar.


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## Celtic

crazymurph said:


> That be the one, brother.


That is a "free mason" symbol.

Various free masons in history:
George Washington
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
James Polk
James Buchanan
Andrew Johnson
James Garfield
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
Howard Taft
Warren Harding
Franklin Roosevelt
Harry Truman
Gerald Ford


I don't think many of these folks were "masons", in terms of the building trades.


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## william1978

kbsparky said:


> Whenever I am called to a house with 4-legged pets, I end up with fleas trying to get a bite out of me!
> 
> Hate it when that happens!


 Thats the only flea's I know about.:laughing:


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## steelersman

Celtic said:


> That is a "free mason" symbol.
> 
> Various free masons in history:
> George Washington
> James Monroe
> Andrew Jackson
> James Polk
> James Buchanan
> Andrew Johnson
> James Garfield
> William McKinley
> Theodore Roosevelt
> Howard Taft
> Warren Harding
> Franklin Roosevelt
> Harry Truman
> Gerald Ford


don't forget Buzz Aldrin, Gene Autry, Winston Churchill, Ty Cobb, Buffalo Bill, Davy Crockett, Jack Dempsey, Bob Dole, Duke Ellington, Bob Evans, Henry Ford, just to name a few more, but the most important one or at least the one that comes to my mind first without looking it up online is Benjamin Franklin!


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## user4818

steelersman said:


> don't forget Buzz Aldrin, Gene Autry, Winston Churchill, Ty Cobb, Buffalo Bill, Davy Crockett, Jack Dempsey, Bob Dole, Duke Ellington, Bob Evans, Henry Ford, just to name a few more, but the most important one or at least the one that comes to my mind first without looking it up online is Benjamin Franklin!


Don't forget our very own forum Tool, 480sparky.


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## Celtic

steelersman said:


> don't forget ......


No one was "forgotten"...just "omitted".
If you notice, my list contains ONLY presidents.


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## steelersman

Celtic said:


> No one was "forgotten"...just "omitted".
> If you notice, my list contains ONLY presidents.


But you didn't say: here's a list of some Presidents who were Masons. Instead you said: here's a various list of Masons.


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## Celtic

steelersman said:


> But you didn't say: here's a list of some Presidents who were Masons. Instead you said: here's a various list of Masons.


I did...knowing full well that _someone _would have to prove some kind of a point.


Thanks for playing :thumbsup:


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## traveler

I am a Freemason

I am not a member of the FLE organization.

there is no correlation between the two.

You're believing the rumor mill.

~Joe


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## Celtic

traveler said:


> I am a Freemason
> 
> I am not a member of the FLE organization.
> 
> there is no correlation between the two.
> 
> You're believing the rumor mill.
> 
> ~Joe



Will you be running for president?




j/k


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## NewBack

After I watched the movie "The Skulls" I wanted to be part of a secret society so I looked into the Masons. If you look deep there might be some weird stuff, and it was a lot of work, and a big sausage fest.


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## william1978

Peter D said:


> Don't forget our very own forum Tool, 480sparky.


 :laughing:


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## knaack134

I have always heard that fleas were guys who traveled around the country looking for all the big overtime jobs.


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## Celtic

knaack134 said:


> I have always heard that fleas were guys who traveled around the country looking for all the big overtime jobs.


Not every FLE is a traveler
Not every traveler is a FLE


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## miller_elex

NewBack said:


> I wanted to be part of a secret society so I looked into the Masons. If you look deep there might be some weird stuff, and it was a lot of work, and a big sausage fest.


I live waiting for the day when I can join a secret society that has ten babes to every guy, and we have huge drunken orgies drenched in Wesson oil. I'll probably die waiting for that day, and you know, it is kept a deep secret because before you know it there would be a bunch of wierd dudes scaring off all the hot babes.  

Kind of like this forum, there was a bunch of hot babes here, until you dudes showed up. :no:


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## steelersman

Celtic said:


> Thanks for playing :thumbsup:


I don't play games. Games are for children. I take everything in life very seriously(kind of like 480). Does it make for a boring life sometimes? Yes it does.


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## goose134

I've heard of them and I worked with a guy I was told was a FLE, but I couldn't prove it.


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## retired 7373

*Fle's*

FLE's are still around,many of them. You will find them active on larger jobs with alot of electricians, especially one with Travelers. I wont say alot, but if i did comment it would be a negative comment. The Ba and all his assisants in my local are FLe's.


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## TurdMerger

retired 7373 said:


> FLE's are still around,many of them. You will find them active on larger jobs with alot of electricians, especially one with Travelers. I wont say alot, but if i did comment it would be a negative comment. The Ba and all his assisants in my local are FLe's.


How about you comment?

This thread is about FLE's, but it's nothing more than idiotic jokes. There is no real information about FLE's here.


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## Celtic

steelersman said:


> I don't play games. Games are for children. I take everything in life very seriously(kind of like 480). Does it make for a boring life sometimes? Yes it does.



Have you seen your avatar?
:laughing:


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## steelersman

Celtic said:


> Have you seen your avatar?
> :laughing:


I hope everyone understands that I was joking.


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## brian john

TurdMerger said:


> How about you comment?
> 
> This thread is about FLE's, but it's nothing more than idiotic jokes. There is no real information about FLE's here.


Well give us some insight.


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## william1978

IMO Turdmerger and that Low Volt Mcoy are just like fleas.


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## brian john

william1978 said:


> IMO Turdmerger and that Low Volt Mcoy are just like fleas.


They bite you and make you all itchy?


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## william1978

brian john said:


> They bite you and make you all itchy?


 No, they are just annoying.


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## PhatElvis

*Repost from May*

First off FLE stands for *Federation of Linemen and Electricians* 

Its an informal fraternal organization of traveling construction electricians that has probably been around as long as IBEW itself. FLEs do not engage in collective bargaining and the IBEW hierarchy has actually branded the FLE as a subversive organization. (Although Ed Hill is an Honorary Member) 

While FLE does not engage in collective bargaining, nor act as a reform group within the IBEW, it does aid its members, encourage them to file grievances. They are seen as radicals and trouble makers by contractors and if a man is thought to be a FLE he will be laid off or fired on the spot. 

My uncle has a similar card and I have heard the stories... they are trouble makers.

Drop LawnGuyLandSparky a PM, I suspect he is a FLE and could even tell you about the secrete bump handshake.


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## william1978

PhatElvis said:


> Drop LawnGuyLandSparky a PM, I suspect he is a FLE and could even tell you about the secrete bump handshake.


 :laughing: We don't want to know about that hand shake.:no::laughing:


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## user4818

william1978 said:


> :laughing: We don't want to know about that hand shake.:no::laughing:


Welcome to the....ahhh..nevermind.


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## william1978

Peter D said:


> Welcome to the....ahhh..nevermind.


 :laughing:


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## user4818

william1978 said:


> :laughing:


I can always count on my audience of one to laugh at my jokes. :thumbsup:


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## william1978

Peter D said:


> I can always count on my audience of one to laugh at my jokes. :thumbsup:


 You mean to tell me that I'm the only one that thinks your jokes are funny?:laughing:


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## user4818

william1978 said:


> You mean to tell me that I'm the only one that thinks your jokes are funny?:laughing:



More than likely. :whistling2:

Just don't tell anyone or they will make fun of you. :laughing:


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## william1978

Peter D said:


> More than likely. :whistling2:
> 
> Just don't tell anyone or they will make fun of you. :laughing:


 Peter who?:whistling2:


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## traveler

No FLE out there is going to tell you that they are a member.

It stands for Federation of Lineman and Electricians.

They are the Original Union.

Best brothers you can ever have. 

You have to know what to look for.

If you ever see an IBEW bug with a left hand raised instead of the right hand...there ya go!

That's all I'm telling on a forum with non-union boys on here!

~Joe


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## nunu163

Some of the old timers were telling me about fles. basically it refers to guys who just jump from job to job usually powerhouses or jobs of equal size. they usually just live in motorhomes and dont pay taxes (claiming zero i guess?). But the guys ive talked to say theyre whole familly travels with them.


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## bostonpaul

*fleas do not advertize*



crazymurph said:


> I have been a union member for 28+ years and have never really encountered any fleas. I have heard about them and heard stories but never actually met anyone who claimed to be a flea.. I am wondering if they still exist. Comments and stories appreciated.


 
Bro,
Members of the Fleas do not advertize. 
I once traveled to West Virginia and had Dyed in ther Wool old Time FLEA for a roomate and he never told me! I had asked a similar question that you asked while a me and a group of good Southern Boys were eating some BBQed fish and hocks and other stuff that was new to me and all of a sudden they all stopped talking. Then one of them said "Should I fill young Boston In"? (Iwas in my Forties at the time.)
And then the guy says, 
"You been hanging with one since the day you got here Boston!" 

Just then my Roomate comes around the corner and says "Hangin with Who?"
And they all stopped talking again. The next day Someone told me.

The fleas are on a lot of Power House Jobs. They seem to love them and help each other get work at the power houses. They often try to group up on these great overtime type jobs. Many times they become foremen and even General Foremen. They are mostly down South. The younger ones or ones on their initiation probation or whatever ofen hold raffles on the job...or sell tee shirts featuring different big jobs or electrical events, or hold events that charge admission fees..... 

the extra proceeds after the prizes which we are told goes to "The sick and Needy"
Im not sure, but suspect these sick and needy actually are sick and/or needy but are also Brother Fleas.

In some unions down South and in other areas the Fleas hold office in union halls too. From what I understand, according to Old Time Fleas, the dunamics of the membership has changed over the years, which isn't surprising when you consider those same changing set of dynamics have changed in the general electrical non FLEA population.
There are some that do not really know any FlEAS but talk trash about them. All I can say is that this little group I hung out with treated me well and cooked a lot of good food.
I realize that bunking with one of the more respected members may have

helped in that area, but just the same I have nothing bad to say.

LAST THING, THE fleaS ARE THE ONES THAT UPHOLD THE TRAVEL LAWS WHEN ON THE ROAD. DONT EVER LET ONE FIND OUT YOUR DOUBLE BOOKING HA A, OR BRINGING YOUR OWN POWER TOOLS TO WORK, OR GOING TO LUNCH LATE, OR ANY OF THAT KIND OF STUFF.
THIS IS WHERE MOST OF THE PROBLEMS START IF ANY
THEY TEND TO TAKE THESE MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS. WHILE THAT MAY NOT BE RIGHT ....IF YOU ARE NOT ACTING LIKE A RAT, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

Hope This Helps
Bostonpaul


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## bostonpaul

PhatElvis said:


> First off FLE stands for *Federation of Linemen and Electricians*
> 
> Its an informal fraternal organization of traveling construction electricians that has probably been around as long as IBEW itself. FLEs do not engage in collective bargaining and the IBEW hierarchy has actually branded the FLE as a subversive organization. (Although Ed Hill is an Honorary Member)
> 
> While FLE does not engage in collective bargaining, nor act as a reform group within the IBEW, it does aid its members, encourage them to file grievances. They are seen as radicals and trouble makers by contractors and if a man is thought to be a FLE he will be laid off or fired on the spot.
> 
> My uncle has a similar card and I have heard the stories... they are trouble makers.
> 
> Drop LawnGuyLandSparky a PM, I suspect he is a FLE and could even tell you about the secrete bump handshake.


UNLESS YOU ARE IN THE DEEP SOUTH AND FLEAS ARE RUNNING THE JOB AND FLEES ARE HOLDING OFFICE AT THE LOCAL THAT IS
NOT AGREEING OR DISSAGREEING, JUST SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE IN SOME AREAS. FIVE FLEASE DID ASK ME TO SLOW DOWN ONCE HAHA, WE WERE ALL ALONE UP IN THE 5TH FLOOR INSIDE SOME TYPE OF MEZZANINE WHERE NOONE COULD SEE US AND THEY SAT ALL AROUND ME AND TOLD ME THEY ALL LIKED ME AND HOW WE GOT ALONG GREAT AND HOWE THEY HAD NO PROBLEM WITH ME AND HOW I AM BUNKING WITH SO AND SO, BUT EVEN SO, "WE NEED YOU TO SLOW THE FK DOWN BROTHER" 

i SAID, HA HA, NO PROBLEM BRO, I WAS JUST GETTING BOARD!
THEY ALL LAUGHED AT THAT AND WE WERE COOL FROM THEN ON''


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## bostonpaul

nunu163 said:


> Some of the old timers were telling me about fles. basically it refers to guys who just jump from job to job usually powerhouses or jobs of equal size. they usually just live in motorhomes and dont pay taxes (claiming zero i guess?). But the guys ive talked to say theyre whole familly travels with them.


 
Each case is different as with all travelers.
Fleas do not always travel Brother.
But they will certainly talk on line about a big power house job coming up in a certain area and tend to saty at the same hotel or campground.
They manage to get top work together on the job and often one makes forman and the pulls strings to get certain men on his crew.

The contractor sometimes does his best with them just like New York contractors and unions delt with a certain other group when they had to so the job would run smooth.

But it is not always that powerful. Each situation is different. Like anything else, when people tell strories, they tell mostly the colorful and sensational parts because is more interesting thatn two hear two fles when to Boston to work the Big Dig and feed their falimly. They didnt have too much influence with us locals, but some of the southern hands feared or respected them for sure because they knew they hade to go back home down south sooner or later. Now thats not a very exciting story, but a very true one.


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## captainwireman

They are the finest wiremen I ever met.


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## sparky970

I had a FLE working for me up until last week.


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## Ibewsparky68

"They are the Original Union". 

Actually the first Union for Electricians was the United Order of Lineman of North America founded prior to 1890, Denver had Lodge #1, though there were Electricians in the Knights of Labor and Lineman in the Telegraphers Union previous to this.

As an aside when researching IBEW in Denver I found that the United Order of Lineman of North America in Denver had their meetings the same night and the same building as the new NBEW (National Brotherhood of Electrical Workers - before they went International), then within 1 year they were no longer active in the Denver area. We actually owe them a lot - they were active in founding the building trades, member education and helped set up heath benefits with local hospitals and death benefits for members killed on the job.


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## doublejelectric

NewBack said:


> After I watched the movie "The Skulls" I wanted to be part of a secret society so I looked into the Masons. If you look deep there might be some weird stuff, and it was a lot of work, and a big sausage fest.


I'm considering the clampers, lol


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## d80hunter

I recently had a JW on a short call who claimed to have travelled to the overtime jobs on powerhouses and refineries for years. The only reason he had taken my call was because he was taking an evening welding class near the job site. He was getting a welding certificate to bid on special calls for the "big projects".

One day we were on a roof, just me and him by the way, and he mentioned travelling and all his friends who would stick together and even slow big jobs down if they were mistreated. I suspected he was a FLE and he seemed to had been testing me a little with it. When his short call was up we talked a little while. He told me he would tell his friends on the road that I was a good guy to work for and they should take calls for my contractor if they were looking for work. I suspect again but never asked.

The following week another JW on the job confirmed he was a FLE. He had run into him travelling before and just straight up asked him about it.

They are just some good ole boys who stick up for each other on the road and do not want to be mistreated on construction projects. If you treat your workers right then it doesn't matter who they are they will get the job done.


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## Brother Noah

I have read post of speculation of what the posters believe to be real and or true about a secrete society that's been here from the inception of electrical unions (or so I am told) I have also traveled for 25+ years across the USA with good brothers I would suspect to belong to this organization and not ONCE did I ever hear or witness any to slow a job, contrary their goal was to give a fair days work for a fair wage in a journeyman like fashion. Yes they did raise money for those in need, all IBEW members not just those who were considered a part of their group. Now I did not work all jobs in Boston but the ones I did work in the Big Dig era had a heavy influence of what I thought to be good brothers, and they were from all across the USA and Canada. From what I have read in history of the IBEW our roots of OUR IBEW founding fathers stem from the Knights originally. I have helped sell t-shirts and raffle items for many years because I have personally seen the donations go to help those in need that I know had nothing to do with any fraternity. Now if y'all (yes I am from the south, so I guess that makes me one too?) figure out what these critters are doing to harm OUR IBEW and can show proof I am willing to listen.


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## wildleg




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## sparky970

Brother Noah said:


> I have read post of speculation of what the posters believe to be real and or true about a secrete society that's been here from the inception of electrical unions (or so I am told) I have also traveled for 25+ years across the USA with good brothers I would suspect to belong to this organization and not ONCE did I ever hear or witness any to slow a job, contrary their goal was to give a fair days work for a fair wage in a journeyman like fashion. Yes they did raise money for those in need, all IBEW members not just those who were considered a part of their group. Now I did not work all jobs in Boston but the ones I did work in the Big Dig era had a heavy influence of what I thought to be good brothers, and they were from all across the USA and Canada. From what I have read in history of the IBEW our roots of OUR IBEW founding fathers stem from the Knights originally. I have helped sell t-shirts and raffle items for many years because I have personally seen the donations go to help those in need that I know had nothing to do with any fraternity. Now if y'all (yes I am from the south, so I guess that makes me one too?) figure out what these critters are doing to harm OUR IBEW and can show proof I am willing to listen.


I've met good one and bad ones. They will do anything to help other electricians, but I have not witnessed any actions that help their employer, you know, the people that sign the checks. Yes, there are some that will do a great job and some that just cause problems. Its the troublemakers that give them all a bad name. The troublemakers might as well be longshoremen, because give all unions a bad name.


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## chicken steve

I'm starting a secret organization, think i'll name it SLEEZE. We'll have secret handshakes and pig latin hints on the job for those savey enough to decipher them. We're also going to have wet Tshirt parties every day after work, all to save the trade from itself of course!.....~CS~


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## eejack

Brother Noah said:


> I have read post of speculation ....


I have had the misfortune of stewarding a job with FLEs on it. Individually they are fine but as an organization they are not. Their claim to be the 'real IBEW' and their claims at being part of the earliest moments of the union are bunk.

Sadly they have good members who believe the bunk and think they are being good brothers, but the folks in charge know it is all lies and BS and use every excuse to line their pockets.

Do not think it is all speculation. You travel, you already know this.


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## Brother Noah

eejack said:


> I have had the misfortune of stewarding a job with FLEs on it. Individually they are fine but as an organization they are not. Their claim to be the 'real IBEW' and their claims at being part of the earliest moments of the union are bunk.
> 
> Sadly they have good members who believe the bunk and think they are being good brothers, but the folks in charge know it is all lies and BS and use every excuse to line their pockets.
> 
> Do not think it is all speculation. You travel, you already know this.


 I appreciate what you think you know? My grand father and an uncle were and they always taught we all should be safe and productive to the best of our abilities so the contractors could hire more brothers and sisters in the future. (this was always their ideal not just when they got paid)Now all this speculation, second guessing will cost an innocent brothers job and or ability to feed their family. I have seen many portray them self as some thing they were not therefore they wreck havoc on others suspected to be associated. Now please if any one has anything real (not suspected because they wore certain clothes or tramped around) I put in a good days work, and always advocate others to as well yet I have lost my job cause the steward said I was a FLE because I sold t-shirts at lunch. I was always on time never left early worked safe from start to stop. So who is the culprit here the one who belongs to a group, the one who others suspect because they fit their idea of what they think this group portrays or the person who causes economic harm to OUR IBEW brothers and sisters on misinformation?


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## eejack

Brother Noah said:


> I appreciate what you think you know? My grand father and an uncle were and they always taught we all should be safe and productive to the best of our abilities so the contractors could hire more brothers and sisters in the future. (this was always their ideal not just when they got paid)Now all this speculation, second guessing will cost an innocent brothers job and or ability to feed their family. I have seen many portray them self as some thing they were not therefore they wreck havoc on others suspected to be associated. Now please if any one has anything real (not suspected because they wore certain clothes or tramped around) I put in a good days work, and always advocate others to as well yet I have lost my job cause the steward said I was a FLE because I sold t-shirts at lunch. I was always on time never left early worked safe from start to stop. So who is the culprit here the one who belongs to a group, the one who others suspect because they fit their idea of what they think this group portrays or the person who causes economic harm to OUR IBEW brothers and sisters on misinformation?


Do not play that game - what I 'think' I know? Do not think for a moment that everyone is making up stories.

Newark Airport 90s steward. Ain't no 'think' about it.

If you want to pretend that all y'all are these noble traveling prophets - fine with me - but you have to own your darker member's actions or do something about it.


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## wildleg

eejack said:


> *- but you have to own your darker member's actions or do something about it*.


now if that idea could ever sink in to the mindset of the folks that run most of the unions in America, we would all be union. Not being a hater here, just sayin . . . Truer words were never spoken.


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## chicken steve

_brothers keeper_ wildone?

a tad too conceptual, but here's hopin'...:thumbsup:~CS~


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## Brother Noah

eejack said:


> Do not play that game - what I 'think' I know? Do not think for a moment that everyone is making up stories.
> 
> Newark Airport 90s steward. Ain't no 'think' about it.
> 
> If you want to pretend that all y'all are these noble traveling prophets - fine with me - but you have to own your darker member's actions or do something about it.


 Even as you lash out because you did not like the fact that I accused you of a lack of REAL knowledge you expressed that Y'all traveling prophets ? So you KNOW these Brothers were part of this secrete organization because they were from the south, traveled, and who spoke out? I have been a job and project steward before but that does not entitle me to some special gift of knowledge. I asked both my grand father and my uncle for years if they were and both denied it till their deaths but their credentials said different. Real proof not just because you think it, that will cause undue duress for our Brothers and their families.


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## chicken steve

~CS~


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## drumnut08

eejack said:


> I have had the misfortune of stewarding a job with FLEs on it. Individually they are fine but as an organization they are not. Their claim to be the 'real IBEW' and their claims at being part of the earliest moments of the union are bunk.
> 
> Sadly they have good members who believe the bunk and think they are being good brothers, but the folks in charge know it is all lies and BS and use every excuse to line their pockets.
> 
> Do not think it is all speculation. You travel, you already know this.


I've experienced this too , and their agenda certainly isn't to get the job done in a timely fashion , so the contractor makes money ! These guys will drag their feet purposely to force the job to go to overtime . This is great for the men , maybe not so great for the contractor . That mentality is dangerous and puts contractors out of business , which in turn is one less person for them to ever work for again ? It's a very bizarre way of thinking . Nobody was asking anything out I the ordinary either aside from here's an assignment , please do it . Some of these guys would gather on large platform lifts , take them all the way up and hold court , so no work was getting done . The foreman had no balls and kind of let it happen , but the job did go to crazy overtime , the contractor did lose money , an these guys went to the next gig , to do the same thing in sure !


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## Big John

drumnut08 said:


> ...Some of these guys would gather on large platform lifts , take them all the way up and hold court , so no work was getting done....


I've never seen anything like that, and sincerely hope I never do. That's practically brainwashed.


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## HackWork

Brother Noah said:


> My grand father and an uncle were and they always taught we all should be safe and *productive to the best of our abilities *so the contractors could hire more brothers and sisters in the future. (this was always their ideal not just when they got paid)


Then why do you and your fellow travelers over at Friends and Family specifically say the exact opposite?

It's not speculation when the actual men are admitting in plain English on the Internet for all to see that their goal is to drag out jobs as long as they can and make it as hard on the "Kons" as they possibly can.


----------



## drumnut08

Big John said:


> I've never seen anything like that, and sincerely hope I never do. That's practically brainwashed.


I wish I hadn't seen it , but did , lol ! They didn't like me very much because I was always working . They knew not to waste their breath trying to brainwash me . I don't intimidate easily , so I wasn't afraid of what may come from that . They had the foreman pretty snowed though . He was over his head and was in the job trailer pulling his hair out most of the time , so he didn't see a lot of what went on . I actually had a guy start sniffing in the air , I said , what do you smell ? He said it smells like 7 /12's coming real soon ! It was disgusting !


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## wildleg




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## drumnut08

HackWork said:


> Then why do you and your fellow travelers over at Friends and Family specifically say the exact opposite?
> 
> It's not speculation when the actual men are admitting in plain English on the Internet for all to see that their goal is to drag out jobs as long as they can and make it as hard on the "Kons" as they possibly can.


This job in particular was a new distribution center for fed ex . We had all the automation a d another contractor had the shell and distribution . The fleas were from mostly the Midwest and none of them were worth a lick . All they succeeded in doing was bringing down the moral of the local guys and slowing progress to a snails pace . It's the only time I experienced anything this bad and blatant , but it definitely exists !


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## eejack

Brother Noah said:


> So you KNOW these Brothers were part of this secrete organization because they were from the south, traveled, and who spoke out?


I know it because they told me. 
It was a very memorable conversation.
You keep pretending it ain't what it is though if that makes you feel better. Everyone else knows.


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## user8640521

brian john said:


> Well give us some insight.


when i was an apprentice, one of the owners of a shop i was
working for explained the FLE's, so i'd know what was going on
as i worked around. he had traveled for about 12 years extensively,
at a time when that was a pretty profitable way to make a living.

while not longer active in the organization, he'd been there and done that.

so, it was a lineman's local absorbed back in the day by the IBEW,
and their original membership was pretty tightly knit, and they had
a network of communication that would make the web proud. when
there was work, particularly overtime work, the word went out, and
the people showed up.

they tended to favor large budget industrial and power generating work,
the boom of nuclear power plants was really their day in the sun.

i've been on two large jobs that were mostly manned by FLE's.
budweiser brewery, van nuys, 1982

hughes electro optic, el segundo, 1983
at the time, that was the largest construction job in the US.
i cleared out there the week it went 7-12's.
FLE's present? ya think?
there were about 500 guys working with the tools, and another
100 in various supervisory capacities.

i was told rather matter of factly not to "break down conditions".
so, after that, when i asked my foreman for something to do,
after he told me what he wanted done, i asked him when he
wanted to see me again for another task.

and i didn't bother him until the appointed time. i stayed out
of sight, got my job done, and didn't get in anyones face.

and my tool buddy and i drove my ford van to work. the week after
we got there, one of the welders welded a lot of the import car doors
in the parking lot shut. nice little 1" beads. sprayed cold gal spray on
them, so they wouldn't rust. he was, after all, a professional.

nobody was sober.
there were empty jack bottles everywhere.
you could buy cocaine on the job. saved having to run out on
your lunch break to get some. this was before crack, but you
could smell the sharp odor of either from the freebase being
smoked up on the catwalks.

as for getting some, hookers were plying their trade in building two's 
fan rooms. i don't believe they were union, however.

one of the guys on the job, who was not a FLE, was wearing a colt 
python and two speedloaders on his tool belt. nobody bothered him.
when it became known he had been my journeyman when i was a 
second year apprentice, nobody bothered me much.

nobody was paying taxes. everyone was filing "exempt" and
transposing numbers on their SSN's. nobody asked to see
a Social Security card.

after a month, there was a posse made up of IRS agents and
federal marshals who raided the job, looking for tax evaders.

my friend with the python on his tool list informed me that
in the area we were working, myself, my tool buddy, and he
were the only folks who were not FLE's. i believed him.

i was told to behave myself, and be polite. and i did.

i also remember the day a senior ninth district business rep
showed up with two "assistants" and faced down what i was
later told was one of the main folk in the FLE's on the job.

it was interesting. he walked up in a seriously expensive suit,
all of about 5'9", and said in a thick irish brogue....
"ay laddie, you're causing me a bit of a bother here... i think
it's about time for you to be moving on..." 

it would have been a good scene in the movie goodfellas. after
a bit of sputtering, the guy just walked over, picked up his tools,
and walked to his car. that was the last i saw of him.

the reason i suspect that being told i was the only non FLE in 
that part of building two was true, is that the wobble the day
after the fellow took off, my toolie and i were about the only
people in building two who didn't know, and showed up.

not a good place to be. we promptly left.

so, what do i know about FLE's? not a lot. don't get on their
bad side. don't "break down their conditions." don't drive an
import car to work.

and don't show up for work when you are the only one there.


----------



## Brother Noah

FulThrotl said:


> when i was an apprentice, one of the owners of a shop i was
> working for explained the FLE's, so i'd know what was going on
> as i worked around. he had traveled for about 12 years extensively,
> at a time when that was a pretty profitable way to make a living.
> 
> while not longer active in the organization, he'd been there and done that.
> 
> so, it was a lineman's local absorbed back in the day by the IBEW,
> and their original membership was pretty tightly knit, and they had
> a network of communication that would make the web proud. when
> there was work, particularly overtime work, the word went out, and
> the people showed up.
> 
> they tended to favor large budget industrial and power generating work,
> the boom of nuclear power plants was really their day in the sun.
> 
> i've been on two large jobs that were mostly manned by FLE's.
> budweiser brewery, van nuys, 1982
> 
> hughes electro optic, el segundo, 1983
> at the time, that was the largest construction job in the US.
> i cleared out there the week it went 7-12's.
> FLE's present? ya think?
> there were about 500 guys working with the tools, and another
> 100 in various supervisory capacities.
> 
> i was told rather matter of factly not to "break down conditions".
> so, after that, when i asked my foreman for something to do,
> after he told me what he wanted done, i asked him when he
> wanted to see me again for another task.
> 
> and i didn't bother him until the appointed time. i stayed out
> of sight, got my job done, and didn't get in anyones face.
> 
> and my tool buddy and i drove my ford van to work. the week after
> we got there, one of the welders welded a lot of the import car doors
> in the parking lot shut. nice little 1" beads. sprayed cold gal spray on
> them, so they wouldn't rust. he was, after all, a professional.
> 
> nobody was sober.
> there were empty jack bottles everywhere.
> you could buy cocaine on the job. saved having to run out on
> your lunch break to get some. this was before crack, but you
> could smell the sharp odor of either from the freebase being
> smoked up on the catwalks.
> 
> as for getting some, hookers were plying their trade in building two's
> fan rooms. i don't believe they were union, however.
> 
> one of the guys on the job, who was not a FLE, was wearing a colt
> python and two speedloaders on his tool belt. nobody bothered him.
> when it became known he had been my journeyman when i was a
> second year apprentice, nobody bothered me much.
> 
> nobody was paying taxes. everyone was filing "exempt" and
> transposing numbers on their SSN's. nobody asked to see
> a Social Security card.
> 
> after a month, there was a posse made up of IRS agents and
> federal marshals who raided the job, looking for tax evaders.
> 
> my friend with the python on his tool list informed me that
> in the area we were working, myself, my tool buddy, and he
> were the only folks who were not FLE's. i believed him.
> 
> i was told to behave myself, and be polite. and i did.
> 
> i also remember the day a senior ninth district business rep
> showed up with two "assistants" and faced down what i was
> later told was one of the main folk in the FLE's on the job.
> 
> it was interesting. he walked up in a seriously expensive suit,
> all of about 5'9", and said in a thick irish brogue....
> "ay laddie, you're causing me a bit of a bother here... i think
> it's about time for you to be moving on..."
> 
> it would have been a good scene in the movie goodfellas. after
> a bit of sputtering, the guy just walked over, picked up his tools,
> and walked to his car. that was the last i saw of him.
> 
> the reason i suspect that being told i was the only non FLE in
> that part of building two was true, is that the wobble the day
> after the fellow took off, my toolie and i were about the only
> people in building two who didn't know, and showed up.
> 
> not a good place to be. we promptly left.
> 
> so, what do i know about FLE's? not a lot. don't get on their
> bad side. don't "break down their conditions." don't drive an
> import car to work.
> 
> and don't show up for work when you are the only one there.


 You write well, amusing tale.


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## sparky970

Brother Noah said:


> You write well, amusing tale.


Speaking of writing well. I worked around a guy, very certain he was a FLE, who used to write poems nearly every day about the activities at work. Some of the best poems ever.


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## Brother Noah

sparky970 said:


> Speaking of writing well. I worked around a guy, very certain he was a FLE, who used to write poems nearly every day about the activities at work. Some of the best poems ever.


 My point exactly!


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## fishmax2

*FLE's*

Round here we spin them right out the door thank god... The only ones we have had and that has been 6-7 in last 2 years have been pos's that were intentionally ****ing stuff up and slowing progress. Good riddance and if thats what it is to be a FLE, will spin the rest.


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## Awg-Dawg

Im not going back thru to read.

Whats a FLE?


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## ponyboy

Federation of lineman and electricians. Full time traveling, power house chasing, dragging up instigators that may or may not be around anymore


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## Phatstax

Quite amusing thread, lots of speculative statements and "horror stories". Makes for a good read. The best part is how easily "shop men" label travelers as troublemakers, although without travelers to man the work the local shops would lose it. Funny stuff. 
I have met a few. I watch how they carry themselves on the job. They have their good and their bad, just like any other group. For the most part, good people with good intentions, a few bad apples can spoil the bunch I guess. Met some I would be happy to work with, met others I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. I've noticed they certainly know how to stand together and have each other's back. Certainly won't smoke the pole to keep a job, maybe that's the difference from most electricians that gives them a bad name. Maybe they have some questionable tactics. I dont know. But I do know they help a lot of people in their times of need, even contractors from time to time. Just my observations from watching.


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## dronai

Is a Fle different from Salting ? I was told a bunch of union guys salted an auto plant job, and messed up a bunch of tools.


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## Phatstax

dronai said:


> Is a Fle different from Salting ? I was told a bunch of union guys salted an auto plant job, and messed up a bunch of tools.


Yes, completely different. Like opposite ends of the color spectrum. Salting is a market recovery technique employed by a hall to flip employees/companies by sending designated members to apply for positions within a non-signatory shop with the hopes of organizing. Many union electricians frown on salting and see it as an excuse to work non-union with the halls blessing, further harming a union shops chance of being awarded a bid. Some members who sign up to salt end up staying with the contractor they were sent to flip. Not the best way to go about it in my opinion.


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## Cl906um

I worked a powerhouse with some. Very quality conscious when all was going well. Treat them right and all is well. They flooded the hall when they heard we were coming down in a company truck. Worked toolies with a pretty good one. Made sure I handed him the bolt with the cut washer the right way. I told him it wasn't a Belleville washer and wasn't for electrical connection. Just flashing for buss duct. Talk about anal... Good hand. Asked if I wanted to go for a beer with his buddies after work. My road parter said not to. He had an offer to go out for a drink when we had a large job in our home local and took the guy up on it. They were all in a circle drinking, then suddenly the " meeting " started and he was drinking his beer out of the circle. He advised me against. The next day I overheard a couple snickering that he (I), would be all right if he would just start bumping thumbs. I don't get the benefit. Maybe it's just one of those things that is good for some but not for all. I feel like in a way like I am non union when working around fles. Awkward. Why isn't being union good enough for me. Fles please reply.


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## gnuuser

chicken steve said:


> I'm starting a secret organization, think i'll name it SLEEZE. *We'll have secret handshakes and pig latin hints on the job for those savey enough to decipher* them. We're also going to have wet Tshirt parties every day after work, all to save the trade from itself of course!.....~CS~


why not short statements in hex code and dirty laughter
this will have everyone else wondering what the hell going on
(pig latin is too easily understood)


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## Cl906um

And why do they all have nicknames? Falcon, rabbit . Does this show rank?


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## 1.21gigawatts

I have workied along side fles when traveling. Some were excellent conduit benders, but not much beyond that( unable to trim, terminate, install luminares etc) They would put down hard working honest brothers because they had organized in years ago or drove a Toyota. I did see them stand up for conditions and safety, but only within their circle of bros. If they really wanted a better, stronger and more united IBEW, they would work twords a true 8 hrs work for 8 hours of pay.


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## Cl906um

1.21gigawatts said:


> I have workied along side fles when traveling. Some were excellent conduit benders, but not much beyond that( unable to trim, terminate, install luminares etc) They would put down hard working honest brothers because they had organized in years ago or drove a Toyota. I did see them stand up for conditions and safety, but only within their circle of bros. If they really wanted a better, stronger and more united IBEW, they would work twords a true 8 hrs work for 8 hours of pay.


A lot of what I thought were possibly fles were working white paper. Some good brothers buddy. Then got mad when got laid off out of order. Didn't even have a ticket and causing havoc. Selling t shirts at the brass shack. The other half were going to the clinic on light duty. Nowhere else has light duty better than the big jobs I guess. Hang in the parts crib ****ing off. Seemed perfectly capable to me. My foreman set me up with a good toolie like I explained earlier, but have no respect for many others. You should be ashamed to be one of those guys. Your members have shamed the good ones. Worked a different job with an older man that said he was just a fun loving electrician. This guy showed us all how it is done. I had the greatest respect for him. Out of Jefferson City. Thanks to him, he showed us rigging and other techniques for running 4" rigid without breaking yourself. I am on the bubble with my opinion of them. Some great, some not.


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## hophead

Celtic said:


> Not every FLE is a traveler
> Not every traveler is a FLE


Makes sense-I heard someone recently say he thinks fleas are known by the welder's caps they wear under the hard hats? Sounds like a less gay idea than the handshake with thumb rub:no:

Anyway I like the idea of Contractors having to abide by the contract but then again I also think all JW's other than Foreman should sign the books when the job is over, no transfers, so what does that make me? Nevermind, that was a rhetorical question.


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## No Shorts

I was told the are guys who purposely sabotage a job. To drag out work.... I was also told they will never identify themselves as one.... so if they claim to be one. They aren't. They are more than bums. They will do serious, costly damage at the loss of the contractors they working for.


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## rather_large_ben

I worked with a FLE that had a small stainless pocket knife that said FLE- fraternity, loyalty, excellence on it. I learned some good tricks of the trade over the years working with FLE brothers. Another time on a different job I was told by another FLE brother that JC (the guy I was partnered up with as an apprentice) was the "Grand Shanker", one of the head FLE brothers. I dropped JC at his motel room after work one time- he said not to tell anyone that he rode in my Toyota. He pulled out a salad bowl that must have had hundreds of those little 1" dia pins and pen clips from different locals and events- he let me have a few. This all mostly happened in the late 90s


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## John Valdes

No Shorts said:


> *I was told* the are guys who purposely sabotage a job. To drag out work.... I was also told they will never identify themselves as one.... so if they claim to be one. They aren't. They are more than bums. They will do serious, costly damage at the loss of the contractors they working for.


I knew a guy one time........


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## pete87

I find this post very interesting ... Not the BS of it ...

The early electricians were ... Linemen 

The Power Lines came first ...

25% Death Rate or more iv,e read ... Wow



Think we come from a Rough Bunch !

This says 1/2 of early electricians ... Died .

http://www.ibew104.org/about/history/more-local-104-history/




Pete


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## Tzyjew

First of all most of these posts against anything they don’t understand are by rats (or if ibew, worms). The ignorance is astounding. Don’t knock something you don’t understand as I don’t. I’ve worked with the best of the best, and the worst. You little kids need to worry about about blowing the boss, as usual, and not knocking what you or I don’t know anything about, and be respectful.


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## gpop

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, something like Fraternity of Linemen and Electricians. Don't quote me on that. You might have had a man shake your hand with his thumb all curled up on the top of his handshake. If so, you just shook hands with a FLE and he was just checking to see if you were too.


Never sure what to do when someone gives you a odd handshake. 

dudes either a freemason or batting for the wrong side so i make sure i get the apprentice to walk him around.

"show this guy around it will give you a reason to be posting on facebook".

numbnuts....."whats this guy do"

"wire lube salesman i think"


----------



## LARMGUY

Tzyjew said:


> First of all most of these posts against anything they don’t understand are by rats (or if ibew, worms). The ignorance is astounding. Don’t knock something you don’t understand as I don’t. I’ve worked with the best of the best, and the worst. You little kids need to worry about about blowing the boss, as usual, and not knocking what you or I don’t know anything about, and be respectful.


Dafuq that come from?


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## Chops146

LARMGUY said:


> Dafuq that come from?


The two year time delay?


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## joebanana

Tzyjew said:


> First of all most of these posts against anything they don’t understand are by rats (or if ibew, worms). The ignorance is astounding. Don’t knock something you don’t understand as I don’t. I’ve worked with the best of the best, and the worst. You little kids need to worry about about blowing the boss, as usual, and not knocking what you or I don’t know anything about, and be respectful.


 If you're going to go spouting off like that, at least fill out your profile so we know if you have any credibility. Ya know, stuff like, years in the trade, years in the union, if you are in the union, where you're at, what you do.

Define "worm". What does that have to do with a lack of understanding? How do you know what they understand? At least you didn't call anybody a scab, thanks for that.


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## Chops146

Can't say for sure due to the lack of profile, but here's my guess. He or she is a new apprentice on a decent size job who heard about the FLEs and googled it. With the dearth of online information, this sight is the most "informative" between this post and another one. That's how I stumbled upon the site when I was a third year. I just had the restraint to not post my opinion on what I "knew" before I really knew anything.


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## brian john

Tzyjew said:


> First of all most of these posts against anything they don’t understand are by rats (or if ibew, worms).


That is a highly ignorant statement. Describing other workers as RATS be they union or open shop, that shows a level of gross stupidity, that as an IBEW member makes me think of the "old days" when the IBEW took time to shoot itself in the foot by slamming open shop workers in lieu of trying to bring them into the IBEW..






> The ignorance is astounding. Don’t knock something you don’t understand as I don’t. I’ve worked with the best of the best, and the worst. You little kids need to worry about blowing the boss, as usual, and not knocking what you or I don’t know anything about, and be respectful.


You have to be a 1st-year apprentice on his high horse thinking you know something, which from your post proves you do not.

Or more likely a troll as you are not smart enough to figure out how to fill in your profile and came here to just stir crap up about a topic you know nothing about.


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## Chops146

Those who know won't post much anyways.


----------



## brian john

Chops146 said:


> Those who know won't post much anyways.


Some very knowledgeable people post on this site regularly.


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## cabletie

I knew bl#*ing the boss was bad on my knees, but I'd didn't know it would give me worms.


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## Chops146

brian john said:


> Some very knowledgeable people post on this site regularly.


"You don't really know unless you know" is a quote I've often heard from a retired brother. Meaning only a FLE really knows about the FLE brotherhood, everyone else is just speculating. I was trying to paraphrase that sentiment. Kinda in light of this and the other thread I have seen on here after reading all the posts in them.


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## Chops146

cabletie said:


> I knew bl#*ing the boss was bad on my knees, but I'd didn't know it would give me worms.


Be careful, if you get too many worms they'll make you NECA chapter president.


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## Southeast Power

I was a young journeyman, I was thrown on a job, somewhat of a shoppie, as a GF with 20 electricians and I was way in over my head.
One of the older guys, a FL&E guy worked with me on a job for a year and we got along very well.
I ended up with a scraggly crew of misfits, drinkers and travelers.
Yup, half of them took a call together and were, FL&E bros.
They had a couple of old walking wounded that needed to be taken care of but, in exchange, they helped me organize my job, made sure every layout was good and kept production up.
The PM came out and said he liked the way I was running the job and how well the job was doing. 
I didnt mich know what was going on. I just ordered material and kept their time.
I didn't travel as I had young kids at home and was not interested in getting FLEed in. 
Those guys are dead and gone but, I have good memory of those guys and always thought they got a bad rap due to the actions of a few bad apples.


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## sbrn33

Chops146 said:


> "You don't really know unless you know" is a quote I've often heard from a retired brother.


It is good to hear your brother is retired. I didn't think you were that old. Has he moved out of your moms basement yet?


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## Chops146

The irony of that post is amazing.


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## Chops146

brian john said:


> That is a highly ignorant statement. Describing other workers as RATS be they union or open shop, that shows a level of gross stupidity, that as an IBEW member makes me think of the "old days" when the IBEW took time to shoot itself in the foot by slamming open shop workers in lieu of trying to bring them into the IBEW..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to be a 1st-year apprentice on his high horse thinking you know something, which from your post proves you do not.
> 
> Or more likely a troll as you are not smart enough to figure out how to fill in your profile and came here to just stir crap up about a topic you know nothing about.


He/she/it still hasn't filled out that profile. Hmm...


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## bill39

FLE’s I worked with were generally very capable, knowledgeable, and could be hard workers. Just like any other generalization, some are good, some are bad.

I was not a FLE, but it seemed similar to an old Mafia move where a made guy would introduce someone to a fellow FLE kinda like this “He’s a friend of mine.” Meaning this new person is not a FLE. If he was introduced to a fellow FLE as “He’s a friend of ours.” Then it told the fellow FLE that this new person was also a FLE.

It seemed like a lot of them just did things to make sure the job was run according to the bargaining agreement and things could get squirrelly a FLE got screwed over or the agreement was not followed, at least in their opinion.


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## Ivan Anderson jr

Tzyjew said:


> First of all most of these posts against anything they don’t understand are by rats (or if ibew, worms). The ignorance is astounding. Don’t knock something you don’t understand as I don’t. I’ve worked with the best of the best, and the worst. You little kids need to worry about about blowing the boss, as usual, and not knocking what you or I don’t know anything about, and be respectful.


Please contact me


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## The_Modifier

Ivan Anderson jr said:


> Please contact me


Great, another new "member" that doesn't fill out their profile as per the user sign up agreement AND necroposts an 11 year old post.

We really need to start filtering before people can post here. Maybe a reading test? Maybe MANDATORY profile completion??? With todays technology, you would think that these would be possible.


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## 99cents

Ivan Anderson jr said:


> Please contact me



Please read this.









Who's Allowed to Join ElectricianTalk.com


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## Kevin

Ivan Anderson jr said:


> Please contact me


Good day,

Please see the link below. A profile is required here at Electrician Talk. Please make sure to include occupation and general location.









IMPORTANT: Required Profile Fields


Please add your Electrical Trade in your account settings. From the navigation, near the upper right-hand corner, click on your avatar to open the drop-down menu and select “Account Settings”. The scroll down to Electrical Trade. Fill in the information for your trade and click Save at the...




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