# LED recessed can retrofits



## burman0502 (Jan 3, 2008)

I recently installed the LLF brand in a dining room of a restaurant I did. They look awesome, can't tell the difference between them and a 65r30 lamp. Best part was I had 40 cans on and only 3.5 amps.


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## aricsavage (Oct 6, 2007)

40 cans, thats alot of money in bulbs. but at 3.5 amps that will propably make up for it soon enough.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Haven't seen those bulbs yet but, with amperage savings like that I'm sure it won't be long before we carry them.


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## personal (Jun 3, 2008)

here there about $100 each, but they are a nice retrofit light


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

I have been looking, but can not find anything. I would switch my place to LED for the heat savings, and so I dont go through bulbs every 3 weeks.


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## Kletis (Jan 18, 2008)

I have not worked with these yet, but have heard good things. The only downside that I can see for putting them in your house is that you can't dim them. (correct me if I'm wrong) I would assume that being L.E.D's you would not be able to run them off of dimmers. They would be great for commercial though!! They could run all day and not even heat up much!! Plus they would cost next to nothing to run and would never burn out!! 

Sounds pretty good to me!!


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

Kletis said:


> I have not worked with these yet, but have heard good things. The only downside that I can see for putting them in your house is that you can't dim them. (correct me if I'm wrong) I would assume that being L.E.D's you would not be able to run them off of dimmers. They would be great for commercial though!! They could run all day and not even heat up much!! Plus they would cost next to nothing to run and would never burn out!!
> 
> Sounds pretty good to me!!


Certaintly you cannot dim them with a conventional dimmer in 2008, however very quickly LED lamps/fixtures/dimmers will rock. Bye, bye T-5s. And that RoHs business.

Work'in For That Free Tee . . .


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## unitedskec (Jun 26, 2008)

In AU, were using LED to replace 12v halogen down lights, as long as they have iron-core transformers then its a strait swop-over, if the existing downlights use electronic transformers then a driver needs to be added.


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## burman0502 (Jan 3, 2008)

*Dimming*

The llf brand leds can be dimmed with a standard incan. dimmer. You have to check which name brand they warranty. can't remember if its leviton or lutron


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## ronald mascenti (Aug 27, 2008)

*led down lights*

There is a enlux LED downlight. It is light a weight heat sink module with fixed trim and is easily retrofited (typical tension springs ) into a existing recessed can housing. The LED lamp is 120 v uses approx 14 watts for 700 lumen out put. There maybe an enlux LED model that does not require a can housing (additional savings) but I am not sure of the code limitations. enLux LED recessed can downlights are dimmable. I agree check specifications on any LED for your application, maybe not all dimmers are acceptable. It appears the enlux LED down light is comparable to the mentioned LLF.


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## dSilanskas (Mar 11, 2008)

I've installed 12 in a house not to long ago. I like them very clean looking only problem I have is that they say you can dim they but they dont really seem to dim. Other than that very nice, clean looking


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

If you were going to put them in your own house, what brand would you use?


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

I have tried one from the supply house. I liked the fact that it only draws like 3 watts. What I do not like is it is only 88 lumens. More like a night light than something you can work under and see what you are doing.

However, it was only $14.


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## ronald mascenti (Aug 27, 2008)

If you are doing a replacement for incandescent and when using multiple LEDs you could leave one incandescent in the line to dummy load the dimmer to dim the LEDs. As stated in an earlier posting, presently there is not a conclusive dimming solution for all LEDs. Typically LED should dim with a electronic low voltage dimmer ie Lutron skylark which appears to dim the enlux led downlight. There is dimmer information on the LLF and enlux web sites that can be helpful. 

Regarding useful light out put of LED. The last comment is right anything less than 12 watts with current LED performance will not typically give adequate light for general illumination (min 600 lumens). However there are several MFG'S with 12 - 15 watt LED lights emitting around 700 lumens which is a typical replacement for a 65watt-75 watt incandescent or 26w CFL. It appears LLF Downlights and enLux LED downlights are reliable high performance lights for general illumination and I am sure there are others. LED downlights are not inexpensive but energy and maintenance savings advantages of LED can have a pretty quick payout not to mention reduced carbon footprint.


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## neon (Oct 12, 2008)

*leds*

there can never be any dimmer on LEDS due to the nature of the device. why would you like a dimmer to begin with the emitting light is practicaly free. lexeon are devices that surpass the leds in light emitting but guess what needs power in the 7w 10 w they are bright enough that you may not look at them directly. Most of the cost of LEDS are in packaging to fully replace a lamp. cars have adapted to leds lamps surely garden have also adapted to LEDS. here in the USA the cost for a led is $1-2 but in china the prices are into cents each I can buy a 12 leds flashlight for $1 actualy $.99 plus tax including the aaa batteries. it will not take long before chinese will see a demand for fixture replacement outright and then we will bitch about it. and by the way LEDS comes in all shape and sizes. an 8mm led can produce 16kmcd. that is a lot for a dot source.


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## ronald mascenti (Aug 27, 2008)

Most of the cost is in the packaging just as most of the light loss is in the packaging almost 50 percent from the chip level lumen output. I have found the cost for LED lighting of a level usable for general illumination to be $60 - $90 thats is for recessed can replacements. (This type lighting is signifcantly different than the flash light and indicator directional lights although they use the same technology). In general illumination application they are dimmable with specific dimmers. It seems to me typically dimming of LED lighting is more for an asthetic or ambience rather than energy savings requirement. The DOE suggest since the packaging of general illumination applications is complex we may not see cheap yet efficient sources.
In fact I have found - DOE.gov/SSL/Caliper testing - to be a informed source of testing and performance information.


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## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

Well, I have about a week until I go back for finish with these LED lights. I am using the kind with the heat sink around the body. They are 100 retail. THis setup is on 3 way and with a dimmer. When I asked HO why the dimmer, it was strictly for mood lighting. The UC lights are some new version of led's aswell. Lighting designer F-up and called for UC lighting under an 8" wide upper but the smallest strip is 12". I still haven't figured out how to keep the light and color uniform with a smaller strip. Going to wait till it's all in. I'll take some pics of the light and post once complete as I think this is the direction the lighting industry is headed. .02


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## AgioLighting (Oct 27, 2008)

I love the Cree LLF-LR6. I've installed about 20 of them, (another ten next week) and can't say enough about them. Yes, they're pretty expensive, but their energy savings far out weigh the cost. I haven't used a dimmer yet (the only one's LLF cover under warranty are lame roll dimmers or real ugly Leviton dimmers.)

My supplier uses Lutron Divas and says his other customers don't have a problem with them dimming (although they only dim to about 25% before going off.) I'm installing dimmer switches in a kitchen install next week. I'll post some pictures as well as my personal review of the Diva dimmer and LR6.


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## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

OK so I got that one job completed. The lights for LED actually throw rather well. THis job called for a "soft light" versus..........I forget the name of the other kind of model they have. It's not ideal for task, but it does OK. Once this kitchen gets painted I will get a better sense of the overall.

These fixtures take 12 watts of power.
You can dim them if you like. I called their tech support and here is the deal. You can use any number of their "approved" dimmers. These are OTS dimmers available at box stores or at houses. The catch is you need to meet THAT particular dimmers minimum load requirement. They range from 25 watts to 40 watts. All Lutron dimmers are at 40. You can get the list from their website. My setup was 8 lights at 12 Watts each is 96 watts total. That's only .8 Amps of current for an entire kitchen, it is more that twice as efficient than our CA Title 24 requirements. They claim 50K hours of life.
Anyhow, As the other gentleman mentioned there is a bit of a spot on with respect to dimming. I'd say with the load I have it was about 15% of slider before lights triggered on. It looked very much like flouros starting up. The brightness was linear at all stages of dimming. All lights performed exactly the same. I was looking for some to not come on at bare minimum power. Dimming was just as you would expect from incand.

Installation: Manu says to remove socket bracket and thread fixture into it. There are 3 tabs that........I dunno, they "move" into positionThese tabs are at the top of the fixture next to the socket. They basically stab the can and slide all the way up. Well this sucked for me. The cans (juno for my remods and Elco for 2 new Con) were not 100% stationary. Cans were installed correctly but there is a tiny bit of play within, this little bit of play made for a ceiling gap. I reattached the bracket and found flush right around the 3 marker. They fit snug and are sturdy!

Customer was a little dissastified for a few reasons. He had a preconcived notion of the GREAT amount of light these things would produce....well, to me they did because most LED stuff sucks. So he thought they were too soft, again the lights he was sold has alot to do with this. Designer said wait till it's painted and than judge. Not like he is going to take back 800 in used fixtures for the other light. Cool white is what I think it's called. I may be wrong on that.

So that's the deal, I could post pics but it's just the same damn thing as any other light / trim.

THis does lead me to another issue, my customer asked me about Counter lighting in LED. Designer has already selected what he wants, but HO wants to know what are the higher end brands / styles in LED. Basically he was asking me to find some bright LED UC lights to help make up for the "soft" light he has now.

Here's a pic of it:


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## AgioLighting (Oct 27, 2008)

JamesINla said:


> he was asking me to find some bright LED UC lights to help make up for the "soft" light he has now.


Hi James,
Just a couple of thoughts for you... Have you seen the Albeotech Under Cabinet Lights? I was really impressed when I saw them first hand. There is another company down in Orange County that also makes some UC LED's but I can't remember their name. 

Where are you located?

-Marcelo-


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## JamesINla (May 19, 2007)

Santa Barbara


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## AgioLighting (Oct 27, 2008)

If you were closer I'd show you my demo unit of the Albeotech under cabinet light. Really nice output, 2500K (fairly warm looking), dimmable (with a electronic dimmer-rather large piece of equipment to hide  

You can probably check them out online and find a local rep...


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