# Square D



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

When is Square D going to start producing QO breakers again? My supplier has been out for a number of weeks!


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Have you been inside of a HD or Lowes Lately? :001_huh:


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

Don't have either store nearby. Menards is out of them also. My Square D supplier can't tell me when they'll start getting them in again. Maybe have to switch to Cutler Hammer CH


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don’t know why you would use either.


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

Only the best will do.......


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Weird, but then again QO is not popular in my area so demand for it is very low.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I don’t know why you would use either.


There's a cult like belief that it's a premium brand. 

The truth is QO is a horrible design, especially with that stupid stacked neutral bar on top next to the main breaker. That alone disqualifies it from something I would use. Every other brand has full length neutral bars but not QO.  I also think the breaker/bus connection is not that great. The clips on the breakers don't hold very well especially as they get older and go through the heating cycles from current.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big Don said:


> Only the best will do.......


Neither one of them are the best. I have had more issues with QO and CH-CH then Siemens/Murray/Homeline. 

The last CH-CH panel installed the breakers were literally popping off of the bus. Apparently that’s not a new thing.


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

You can have your aluminum busses. Might be okay if you live in a area that has very little temperature swing.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Amazon! Only a few cents more than big box for a QO120 and they'll have it to you in a few days. 
Lowe's ships online orders from your nearest local store with that item in stock. Typically 2 to 3 days for me to get an order from them. Free shipping on a $45 order.
Home Depot has a similar deal, however they're usually a week and a half to get your stuff.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big Don said:


> You can have your aluminum busses. Might be okay if you live in a area that has very little temperature swing.


And aluminum bus touched my private area and then kicked my dog.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Big Don said:


> You can have your aluminum busses. Might be okay if you live in a area that has very little temperature swing.


A copper buss is worthless if the breakers don't make a good connection to it, for instance QO.


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

HackWork said:


> And aluminum bus touched my private area and then kicked my dog.


:vs_laugh:


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

You could also buy GE panels from New England's largest and newest GE panel distributor - Peter D 

:biggrin:


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

MTW said:


> A copper buss is worthless if the breakers don't make a good connection to it, for instance QO.



I've been installing almost exclusively QO for years and have very good luck with them. There is a lot of QO in my area so it would be useless to carry another complete line of breakers. Now with this covid shortage, I might have to switch.....


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

JoeSparky said:


> Amazon! Only a few cents more than big box for a QO120 and they'll have it to you in a few days.
> Lowe's ships online orders from your nearest local store with that item in stock. Typically 2 to 3 days for me to get an order from them. Free shipping on a $45 order.
> Home Depot has a similar deal, however they're usually a week and a half to get your stuff.



The single poles aren't the problem. It's the double poles and the PCAFI's


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Have you tried Fleet Farm?
https://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/square-d-single-pole-circuit-breaker/0000000044947?Ntt=QO%20Single%20Pole%20Circuit%20Breaker


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

HackWork said:


> And aluminum bus touched my private area and then kicked my dog.


Could you show us on the doll where the evil aluminum bus panel hurt you?


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

If they have them, the price is almost double what I'm paying. Might have to drive a ways to get them if something doesn't change.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Big Don said:


> If they have them, the price is almost double what I'm paying. Might have to drive a ways to get them if something doesn't change.


They have a ton here, I'll sell them at a bit less than double!


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

JoeSparky said:


> Could you show us on the doll where the evil aluminum bus panel hurt you?


Now that is funny.


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

Switched said:


> They have a ton here, I'll sell them at a bit less than double!


Free shipping? I don't want to have to travel to the granola state right now!


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> The single poles aren't the problem. It's the double poles and the PCAFI's


Answer is still the same. Unless you are on some exclusive breaker buying program through your supply house, the pricing at Amazon or the big box stores is going to be similar or better than your supply house.


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

I've got the Square D Rebate pricing. No way Amazon or any box stores can come close.


----------



## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Big Don said:


> Free shipping? I don't want to have to travel to the granola state right now!


Now it's 3X

Then I can buy extra granola:wink:


----------



## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Big Don said:


> I've got the Square D Rebate pricing. No way Amazon or any box stores can come close.


Build the extra into your price.


----------



## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Big Don said:


> Only the best will do.......





MTW said:


> HackWork said:
> 
> 
> > I donâ€™️t know why you would use either.
> ...


Scheinder's **** line solved the neutral problem at least.


----------



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Big Don said:


> I've been installing almost exclusively QO for years and have very good luck with them. There is a lot of QO in my area so it would be useless to carry another complete line of breakers. Now with this covid shortage, I might have to switch.....



I use SqD almost exclusively as well. Have had zero issues to date.


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

mofos be cray said:


> Scheinder's **** line solved the neutral problem at least.



But they switched to a aluminum buss which in no way compares to a copper buss. I dare to disagree about the location of the neutral bar. Nothing like adding a circuit to an existing panel and have to fish your neutral conductor down the side of the panel to find a spot on the neutral bar. Also, when retrofitting from an existing fuse panel, it's nice to not have to add on to all the neutrals. Just my opinion......


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big Don said:


> But they switched to a aluminum buss which in no way compares to a copper buss.


"_in no way compares_"

If that was in any way true, you would have mountains of documented evidence of aluminum bus failures directly compared to copper buses in the same exact situation.

The truth is that panels are rigorously tested by listing agencies and aluminum buses work just fine, there is no issue.

This same thing has been talked about for decades now and no one has ever produced any evidence that aluminum buses are so bad, other than gossip.



> I dare to disagree about the location of the neutral bar. Nothing like adding a circuit to an existing panel and have to fish your neutral conductor down the side of the panel to find a spot on the neutral bar.


 You run the hot and neutral wires down the gutter together, then you land the neutral on the neutral bar right next to the breaker.


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

HackWork said:


> "_in no way compares_"
> 
> If that was in any way true, you would have mountains of documented evidence of aluminum bus failures directly compared to copper buses in the same exact situation.
> 
> ...





But you have to fight all the wires that are going to the existing breakers.
I'd encourage you to keep using what you like! I'll keep replacing them with QO when the buss burns up...:thumbup:


----------



## Big Don (Jan 10, 2020)

mofos be cray said:


> Build the extra into your price.


Could I call it a Covid charge?


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big Don said:


> But you have to fight all the wires that are going to the existing breakers.


 You have to do that anyway to get the hot down there. I will tape the hot and neutral together in a tight panel and snake them down to the open spot.

Another problem with the position of the neutral bar in a QO panel is when you bring circuits into the side or bottom, now you have to run the neutral up past the breaker to the top. Smartly designed panels let you land the neutral by the breaker or any convenient location along the length of the panel.


> I'd encourage you to keep using what you like! I'll keep replacing them with QO when the buss burns up...:thumbup:


 So you admit that you are just spreading rumor and gossip? 

This, right here on a forum like this, is where you should be posting the evidence to backup your outrageous claim. Without it, you admit that what you said is just nonsense.

"_in no way compares_"


----------



## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Big Don said:


> You can have your aluminum busses. Might be okay if you live in a area that has very little temperature swing.


Copper buss does not like it around livestock, even in a "clean" room. It corrodes black in less than 1 year.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I don’t care what a buss is made of.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Big Don said:


> Only the best will do.......


If you think Sq-D is the best you got a lot of learning to do.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> If you think Sq-D is the best you got a lot of learning to do.


Especially Sq-D QO.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> If you think Sq-D is the best you got a lot of learning to do.


2 decades later and they still haven't come up with any substantiation.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

HackWork said:


> 2 decades later and they still haven't come up with any substantiation.


IMO the best of both worlds would be a GE style plug on buss connection with SQ D trip curves.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

You need to start calculating your cost basis and markup based on the highest price that you might pay for an item. Even if your regular supplier is is typically lower. I pretty much have materials pricing and availability down to a science for what I do in my area. 
But sometimes you have to do business with the high price supplier because of product availability and/or physical location of the job. If you price your jobs based on that higher number up front, then you don't sweat the occasional visit to Ben Dover Electric Supply.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If QO is easiest to get in your area, then you run with QO. Nothing wrong with it. I like VisiTrip but it isn’t a deal maker. Since all brand names are easy to get here, I stay away from QO because of the added cost with no added benefit.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Only place for me that aluminum bus panels are an issue is outside within a block of 2 of the ocean. But in those neighborhoods, the steel casing of the panel is also an issue regardless of the busbar material.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

JoeSparky said:


> Only place for me that aluminum bus panels are an issue is outside within a block of 2 of the ocean. But in those neighborhoods, the steel casing of the panel is also an issue regardless of the busbar material.


It would seem in those environments it would be a no no generally to mount anything outside.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Here is the secret sauce to Sq-D breakers, at least the QO ones. They fit into both QO load centers and also various Sq-D manufactured bolt on breaker panels. 

This saved me a trip over the mountains to Honolulu on a job two days ago at an elementary school where I was called in on a commercial split system AC replacement. Panel was Square-D commercial style bolt on. Looked thru my breaker stash in my van for any Square-D bolt on breakers for a two pole bolt on 30 amp one. Found two bolt on double pole twenties, one 2 pole forty, and two two pole 50's in there but no 2 pole thirty. Then I looked in the plug in breaker bin and viola- a two pole thirty QO breaker , never used , sitting in there. Fit's perfect in the spot where I removed a two pole twenty from the old ac unit. Bam

And... yes for the purists, the original bolted breakers were all 10,000 aic , and the one I put in was 10,000 aic as well.................................


----------



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

^^^^That _is_ a nice feature.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Big Don said:


> I've got the Square D Rebate pricing. No way Amazon or any box stores can come close.


The pricing on QO is untouchable with the buying program, but you still get an inferior, overrated product for it at the end of the day. 

QO is nonexistent in my area in residential and it's actually becoming far less common in commercial applications as well in favor of CH/Eaton.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Eaton gives their stuff away on bigger commercial jobs. When a little guy like me does a TI with an empty Eaton panel, they scorch us on bolt-on breaker pricing.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

99cents said:


> Eaton gives their stuff away on bigger commercial jobs. When a little guy like me does a TI with an empty Eaton panel, they scorch us on bolt-on breaker pricing.


My supplier before he sold out was an Eaton distributor. He used to order BL panels full of breakers so he didn't get robbed by them on breakers. I was an employee back then, so I don't know how much if any of that savings he passed on to us. 
Bolt in panels and bus duct both use the same business model. They give you a good price on the initial purchase and Fcuk you on the repeat small sales. I've even heard of guys buying a few sections of buss duct full of plugs and dumpstering the buss duct. 
Except that model doesn't work for me. When I need one or two bolt in breakers or buss plugs, I typically get them from the Electric Barn or Lectric Connection. 1 is strictly used breakers. The other is most electrical equipment. Stuff is either used and tested, or sometimes brand new. Always much cheaper then Ben Dover Electric Supply.


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

99cents said:


> I don’t care what a buss is made of.


Your bus bars are made of oil soaked snow.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

460 Delta said:


> Your bus bars are made of oil soaked snow.


If I turn it on and it fires up without blowing up, I’m good to go. :smile:

Actually, they’re made of oil soaked moose turds...


----------



## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

QO breakers are also rated for two wires per breaker. Pressure plate terminals. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

VELOCI3 said:


> QO breakers are also rated for two wires per breaker. Pressure plate terminals.


So are Homeline. I don't accept that as a valid reason to buy QO. And in reality, all breaker brands can accept two wires per terminal. :shifty:


----------



## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

MTW said:


> So are Homeline. I don't accept that as a valid reason to buy QO. And in reality, all breaker brands can accept two wires per terminal. :shifty:



I haven’t seen any breakers other than square D and large frame breakers with parallel conductor provisions (elongated lug area) that are rated for more than one conductor. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

VELOCI3 said:


> I haven’t seen any breakers other than square D and large frame breakers with parallel conductor provisions (elongated lug area) that are rated for more than one conductor.


Oh, I see.


----------



## joab (Dec 28, 2019)

This pointless discussion is missing one critical fact yet.... Eaton BR and Seimens load centers are also available with copper bussing, which makes the supposed advantages of QO even more obscure. QO is a nice product, with pros and cons, but all in all, I prefer CH or Seimens. And if I have high point loads or want to sell the idea of "Premium" I can always install a copper buss panel.

The reality is that in 99% of residential work, install whatever you feel like, it will outlast you. The loads are so small that arguments over aluminum bussing in a 200 amp panel is laughable, and just as ridiculous on most 100 Amp panels. 

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk


----------



## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

joab said:


> This pointless discussion is missing one critical fact yet.... Eaton BR and Seimens load centers are also available with copper bussing, which makes the supposed advantages of QO even more obscure. QO is a nice product, with pros and cons, but all in all, I prefer CH or Seimens. And if I have high point loads or want to sell the idea of "Premium" I can always install a copper buss panel.
> 
> The reality is that in 99% of residential work, install whatever you feel like, it will outlast you. The loads are so small that arguments over aluminum bussing in a 200 amp panel is laughable, and just as ridiculous on most 100 Amp panels.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk



Residential I do on the side. Hierarchy is price and availability for panels and no consideration for the bus. I’m not married to any mold case plug in manufacturer. 

That being said I hate that QO limits where and if their panels will accept tandem breakers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

joab said:


> This pointless discussion is missing one critical fact yet.... *Eaton BR and Seimens load centers are also available with copper bussing, which makes the supposed advantages of QO even more obscure.* QO is a nice product, with pros and cons, but all in all, I prefer CH or Seimens. *And if I have high point loads or want to sell the idea of "Premium" I can always install a copper buss panel.*
> 
> The reality is that in 99% of residential work, install whatever you feel like, it will outlast you. *The loads are so small that arguments over aluminum bussing in a 200 amp panel is laughable, and just as ridiculous on most 100 Amp panels. *
> 
> Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk


Circular logic. Fascinating!


----------



## joab (Dec 28, 2019)

VELOCI3 said:


> Residential I do on the side. Hierarchy is price and availability for panels and no consideration for the bus. I’m not married to any mold case plug in manufacturer.
> 
> That being said I hate that QO limits where and if their panels will accept tandem breakers.
> 
> ...


I'm with you 100%. I help our residential guys on occasion with code and troubleshooting, otherwise commercial/industrial. I always hear all the strong opinions from residential guys... where it really doesn't matter. In general, the commercial/industrial market is primarily price driven. On my last major project, Eaton beat Square D by 30k, it's a no brainer.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Sometimes it depends on dimensions, KO locations, etc., especially when you’re doing a panel swap. I couldn’t care less what the buss is made of.

My next panel will be Homeline because I have Homeline breakers I want to use up.


----------



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I stock 95% Sq D because that is what my wholesaler carries. If the customer can't afford Sq D, then in all likelihood I can't afford the customer.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

I settled on Siemens years ago for most of my installs for a few reasons that are not really relevant anymore. Normal size arc faults with diagnostic LEDs, OEM generator interlocks and neutral buss towards the inside, not outside - makes up a little cleaner. Most of those reasons are irrelevant now, but I have no reason to switch.

Both big box stores and 1 of my suppliers at the time carried them, so it worked for me. My current primary supplier now carries them as well.

My primary supplier at the time carried Eaton BR. Until they start giving out free bandaids to go with those knife sharp tubs, I'm not interested.

GE was available at big box but wasn't stocked at any local SH. Never liked the tiny tandem breakers

Square D - same - Big box only. The AFCI breakers are bigger then a 1965 Cadillac Eldorado


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

JoeSparky said:


> My current primary supplier now carries them as well.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


>


I didn't say I bought them at Northeast  I said they carried them. 2 SH and both big box stores all local carry 1 brand of panel. That makes the choice pretty easy. 
The other carries Leviton as well. Maybe I should switch to them and stick it to the breaker cartel :thumbdown::no:


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

HackWork said:


> 2 decades later and they still haven't come up with any substantiation.


I See


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


>


He's pretty gay, isn't he?


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> He's pretty gay, isn't he?


There's no way I'm accusing Joe of being gay. :no::no:


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> There's no way I'm accusing Joe of being gay. :no::no:


Especially when I am going to post the details of the M18 and Ryobi  BOGO free promo coming up soon


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> There's no way I'm accusing Joe of being gay. :no::no:


Really? After all the buggery he talks about?


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Wow, I didn't realize what a problem this was until today! I had no idea it would be such a hassle to hunt down a 90amp square D breaker. Finally got one around 4:30 today. 

One of the supply houses said Square D was months behind on shipments!!!! DANG BRO!!!!


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MHElectric said:


> Wow, I didn't realize what a problem this was until today! I had no idea it would be such a hassle to hunt down a 90amp square D breaker. Finally got one around 4:30 today.
> 
> One of the supply houses said Square D was months behind on shipments!!!! DANG BRO!!!!


You'll never have a problem finding one again. Take that one out after the inspector leaves and put the 100 that you should have put in in the first place. 
This one will be right back on your shelf for the next inspection:devil3:


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

JoeSparky said:


> You'll never have a problem finding one again. Take that one out after the inspector leaves and put the 100 that you should have put in in the first place.
> This one will be right back on your shelf for the next inspection:devil3:


You know, your right. That rule change was bull crap.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

JoeSparky said:


> You'll never have a problem finding one again. Take that one out after the inspector leaves and put the 100 that you should have put in in the first place.
> This one will be right back on your shelf for the next inspection:devil3:


Most inspectors here have enough common sense to know the 100 amp breaker won't ever be a problem.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

I haven't run into it with my local inspectors yet. Just looked and Amazon has q290 in stock with prime shipping. If necessary, I'll have one for my shelf too :wink:


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

JoeSparky said:


> Especially when I am going to post the details of the M18 and Ryobi  BOGO free promo coming up soon


You have my attention at Ryobi BOGO free!:smile:


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

460 Delta said:


> You have my attention at Ryobi BOGO free!:smile:


Details will be in the hot deals thread soon. Met started assembling the displays a few weeks ago. I don't think it is live yet. It will be similar to the deal they had late last year. Buy a $100 kit with 2 batteries/charger/bag and get a bare tool free. There is a backdoor on this sort of deal where you can return 1 item, keep the other and usually get 40ish% off the one you keep.
Details soon.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

JoeSparky said:


> Details will be in the hot deals thread soon. Met started assembling the displays a few weeks ago. I don't think it is live yet. It will be similar to the deal they had late last year. Buy a $100 kit with 2 batteries/charger/bag and get a bare tool free. There is a backdoor on this sort of deal where you can return 1 item, keep the other and usually get 40ish% off the one you keep.
> Details soon.


Ryobi.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> Ryobi.


At an average cost of $50/ tool, they are a great cheap tool. They are not a great tool. Gets the job done though. Used my sawzall, rotary hammer, bandsaw, drill, shop vac and led floodlight today. All worked well and all made me money :thumbsup:
At 50 bucks a tool, If I get a year out of it, I got my money's worth. At that cost, it's not even worth getting them repaired under warranty

They are going to do an M18 promo soon too. Check your HD. Display will be in front section either either between customer service and checkouts or near the pro desk. M12 deal still going on.


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

460 Delta said:


> You have my attention at Ryobi BOGO free!:smile:


It's not free:vs_mad:


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

CoolWill said:


> It's not free:vs_mad:


:biggrin: Usually about 40% off with this promotion


----------



## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

CoolWill said:


> It's not free:vs_mad:


Relax, take a breath it'll be ok.lain:


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

John4hpt2 said:


> It says "free". It must be free.


Is that so?


----------



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

JoeSparky said:


> At an average cost of $50/ tool, they are a great cheap tool. They are not a great tool. Gets the job done though. Used my sawzall, rotary hammer, bandsaw, drill, shop vac and led floodlight today. All worked well and all made me money :thumbsup:
> At 50 bucks a tool, *If I get a year out of it, I got my money's worth. At that cost, it's not even worth getting them repaired under warranty*
> 
> They are going to do an M18 promo soon too. Check your HD. Display will be in front section either either between customer service and checkouts or near the pro desk. M12 deal still going on.


Don't forget to add fuel and your time into your payback calculation vs buying a tool with a life expectancy of many years. And if you only expect a year +/- don't forget the money you lose when it fails in the middle of a job.

Ryobi might be fine for the home handyman, professional grade they ain't.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

John4hpt2 said:


> If I paid a professional service company to do work, and they showed up with Ryobi tools, I would kick their asses to the curb and pee on their heads.


That's very mean.


----------



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Slap a 4" hole saw on that Rye-OH-bee and see how many 2x8s you can get through.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

joe-nwt said:


> Don't forget to add fuel and your time into your payback calculation vs buying a tool with a life expectancy of many years. And if you only expect a year +/- don't forget the money you lose when it fails in the middle of a job.
> 
> Ryobi might be fine for the home handyman, professional grade they ain't.


I have plenty of spares. That's a non issue. Drills (1/year), sawzalls and impacts (1/ 2 years) are what I usually burn up. I have no less then 4 drills, 3 impacts and 2 sawzalls in the truck at all times. 
No fuel to add to the calculation. They sell them at Home Depot. I'm there multiple times a week anyways. No need for a special trip to replace a tool.
Life expectancy of Milwaukee stuff is only about twice that anyways. Except the cost of Milwaukee is three to four times that of Ryobi. So, in two years when your drill dies, you send it out to be repaired, because it's under warranty and you paid a lot of money for it. Now you without your drill for 3 weeks.
They are certainly not professional grade, but they're pretty close. My tools work great for me. Your tools work great for you.nobody's going to convince either one of us otherwise.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

joe-nwt said:


> Slap a 4" hole saw on that Rye-OH-bee and see how many 2x8s you can get through.


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

joe-nwt said:


> Slap a 4" hole saw on that Rye-OH-bee and see how many 2x8s you can get through.


Funny thing is that is usually when I cook one. Venting an exhaust fan or flush mounting a box in solid wood. Any pistol type drill is usualy the wrong tool to be using with that big of a hole saw. I just looked at the specs of a m18 fuel hammer drill. Maximum capacity hole saw through wood is 3-1/2". Just because it fits in the chuck, doesn't mean the tool is rated to push it.


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

JoeSparky said:


> Funny thing is that is usually when I cook one. Venting an exhaust fan or flush mounting a box in solid wood. Any pistol type drill is usualy the wrong tool to be using with that big of a hole saw. I just looked at the specs of a fuel hammer drill. Maximum capacity hole saw through wood is 3-1/2". Just because it fits in the chuck, doesn't mean the tool is rated to push it.


I cooked an M12 drill. I put a 2 ⅛" holesaw in it and drilled 2x material. Now I know better, the M12 is only for 1" holes with the auger.


----------



## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

JoeSparky said:


> I have plenty of spares. That's a non issue. Drills (1/year), sawzalls and impacts (1/ 2 years) are what I usually burn up. I have no less then 4 drills, 3 impacts and 2 sawzalls in the truck at all times.
> No fuel to add to the calculation. They sell them at Home Depot. I'm there multiple times a week anyways. No need for a special trip to replace a tool.
> Life expectancy of Milwaukee stuff is only about twice that anyways. Except the cost of Milwaukee is three to four times that of Ryobi. So, in two years when your drill dies, you send it out to be repaired, because it's under warranty and you paid a lot of money for it. Now you without your drill for 3 weeks.
> They are certainly not professional grade, but they're pretty close. My tools work great for me. Your tools work great for you.nobody's going to convince either one of us otherwise.





It is only a Sawzall if it is a Milwaukee, any other brand is just a reciprocating saw, even a Ryobi, which has the same parent company as Milwaukee.:devil3:


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Norcal said:


> It is only a Sawzall if it is a Milwaukee, any other brand is just a reciprocating saw, even a Ryobi, which has the same parent company as Milwaukee.:devil3:


The Ryobi version is the Sawzmost® :vs_laugh:


----------



## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

JoeSparky said:


> The Ryobi version is the Sawzmost® :vs_laugh:


Sawzalittle... I haven't owned Ryobi in years, since they were blue. I can't speak for the green Ryobi of today, but I didn't think they were really all that bad. Pretty good tool for the price.


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

CoolWill said:


> Sawzalittle... I haven't owned Ryobi in years, since they were blue. I can't speak for the green Ryobi of today, but I didn't think they were really all that bad. Pretty good tool for the price.


I've been thinking of buying some Ryobi lately. We owned some blue stuff years ago, and all the batteries died. The Ryobi stuff is just so darn cheap it's almost impossible to pass up. Take a jigsaw for example. Milwaukee M18: $250+/- . Ryobi 18 volt: $70+/-. Lots of stuff that I probably won't ever use on a job, but for use at home. If I find myself using it enough, I'll buy a better, corded version.


----------



## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> I've been thinking of buying some Ryobi lately. We owned some blue stuff years ago, and all the batteries died.


1.5Ah Makita 18V? Mine died early on too. 3.0Ah and larger seem to go the distance.


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

u2slow said:


> 1.5Ah Makita 18V? Mine died early on too. 3.0Ah and larger seem to go the distance.


No, the old blue Ryobi. There's a few tools Ryobi makes that I'd like to try. The hot glue gun would be awesome to have (it will never see a jobsite, it would be an at home tool). I'd also like to try their planer, jig saw, caulking gun, and some of the sanders. Oh, and maybe the router (I've taken up woodworking while living in an apartment...).


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Ryobi would be fine for most tradesmen.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> I've been thinking of buying some Ryobi lately. We owned some blue stuff years ago, and all the batteries died. The Ryobi stuff is just so darn cheap it's almost impossible to pass up. Take a jigsaw for example. Milwaukee M18: $250+/- . Ryobi 18 volt: $70+/-. Lots of stuff that I probably won't ever use on a job, but for use at home. If I find myself using it enough, I'll buy a better, corded version.


Sadly for you, I don't think the BOGO promo is in Canada :sad:


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

JoeSparky said:


> Sadly for you, I don't think the BOGO promo is in Canada :sad:


Yeah, i don't think it is either


----------

