# IBEW apprentice wages



## HackWork

socaldreamer said:


> Was disappointed to find out that IBEW in San Diego pays first year apprentices such a low starting wage at $16 an hour which is not even much above California minimum wage! Why?


Some unions do this to discourage people from joining just for the fast cash. This way they get applicants who are in it for the full run instead of just a year or two.

I remember years ago the sprinkler fitters local got a $16 raise over 4 years, their rate was higher than electricians, which means the normal apprentice rate was very high too. They ended up lowering the first year apprentice rate to $10 for the reason I stated above.


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## HackWork

BTW, $16 for a first year isn't that low. And the raise each year after is very large.


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## brian john

socaldreamer said:


> Was disappointed to find out that IBEW in San Diego pays first year apprentices such a low starting wage at $16 an hour which is not even much above California minimum wage! Why?



Then by all means take a minimum wage job, leave the slot open for someone looking for career.


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## TGGT

socaldreamer said:


> Was disappointed to find out that IBEW in San Diego pays first year apprentices such a low starting wage at $16 an hour which is not even much above California minimum wage! Why?


It's an investment in time, and it's likely very brief. Ask them what the frequency of the raises is. Not to mention, if the local negotiates a higher minimum wage in that time, your minimum goes up to as it's a percentage.

I know that non-union companies can sometimes offer a higher quick buck, but know that you'll likely top out much sooner and at a much lower wage. There are exceptions, but they are just that, _not_ the norm. I knew guys that were "leadmen" making $14-$18. They thought they were top dog, but they were making peanuts for all the stress they had to put up with, I never stuck with those companies for long, the writing was on the wall.


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## socaldreamer

That is good to know! Well I am fine with taking pay cut to do this long term for 20 years as pay will hopefully increase. There is however this problem with the trades much like what happened to computer jobs and cheap labor:

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-construction-trump/

This explains a lot of the problem facing not only plumbers, construction workers but electricians as unskilled labor from Central America and Mexico flood the market and shoddy electrical work is passed due to low wages and cheap cost.

Thoughts?


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## hardworkingstiff

socaldreamer said:


> That is good to know! Well I am fine with taking pay cut to do this long term for 20 years as pay will hopefully increase. There is however this problem with the trades much like what happened to computer jobs and cheap labor:
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-construction-trump/
> 
> This explains a lot of the problem facing not only plumbers, construction workers but electricians as unskilled labor from Central America and Mexico flood the market and shoddy electrical work is passed due to low wages and cheap cost.
> 
> Thoughts?


Capitalism at its best.


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## socaldreamer

Greed and stiffing the American middle class never sleeps!


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## TGGT

We're union because we're also greedy. Just trying to get a piece of the pie like everybody else.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## socaldreamer

I think union is way to go for apprentice as wages pay bills and best benefits and training so that is the route I will go if I can get in. San Diego is a super expensive place to live and losing my past IT job sucks.


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## dronai

I think you will really enjoy the physical part of the job compared to the office, I just hope you are built like Arnold Scwartznager


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## socaldreamer

Darn I wish that I had Arnold's genetics and physique I would be a male model movie star! Anyways hopefully the steroids help me shed the fat and build muscle so I can do the ass busting physical work. It sounds like electrician is brutal like construction laborer work.


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## Wiresmith

16 seems low to me in that market. i don't follow the logic on the deterring people that aren't committed, i think it reduces the quality of people you get overall. I've been pushing for raising 1st and 2nd year wages in my local, i think it hurts the local in the long run.


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## HackWork

hd13 said:


> 16 seems low to me in that market. i don't follow the logic on the deterring people that aren't committed, i think it reduces the quality of people you get overall. I've been pushing for raising 1st and 2nd year wages in my local, i think it hurts the local in the long run.


The best careers usually require the biggest sacrifices.


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## dronai

socaldreamer said:


> Darn I wish that I had Arnold's genetics and physique I would be a male model movie star! Anyways hopefully the steroids help me shed the fat and build muscle so I can do the ass busting physical work. It sounds like electrician is brutal like construction laborer work.


I really don't think you need the build of a weight lifter for this job. It's more the physique of a migrant field worker for endurance in harsh weather. 

Also it sounds like you are sick of climate controlled environments, and looking for some sweaty dirty work :thumbsup: 

As far as brains go, if you can say, yeah boss, you'll fit right in.


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## Switchgear277

Your take home is 16 ph
But your total package is prolly around 28$ph that's what the contractor has to pay .

16 is not that bad I went from making 25 non union to 12 ph first year but I know the end result will be worth it


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## socaldreamer

For me I had to cut expenses when I lost job and had to go on food stamps and welfare so anything better than nothing works as long as I can make the change from an office job to physical grunt work. I will probably lose weight so that is a plus.


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## Switchgear277

Yes deff 
Are you accepted into program or in process

You do get a raise every yr as well


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## socaldreamer

I am applying this week and will take the test and hopefully do well. I had advanced math in school and college so I should do fine on the math test. Will apply at local IBEW here in San Diego. At least electrician jobs cannot be sent overseas to India.


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## LasVegasJDub86

Social dreamer. I understand in some areas especially with our lifestyles these days $16 an hour may seem a little low. Do not let that deter your decision to enter the apprenticeship. It was the best decision that I have ever made! you get so much more than just the money aspect of it the schooling alone and the opportunities that you Will have in the future will out weight starting out at 16 an hour. before you know it you'll be making a lot more than that and you'll be getting an education at the same time do you all that you can to get into that apprenticeship it is great !! And like he said that is just on your check that is not to mention the pensions you're getting and your benefits it is an amazing program !! Good luck! 
?


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## hardworkingstiff

socaldreamer said:


> At least electrician jobs cannot be sent overseas to India.


That was one of the reasons (not India specifically) I decided to be an electrician when I quit college in 1972.


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## splatz

The low wage apprenticeship is IMO important to the union because they need some low wage workers in the mix to be even half way price competitive with non-union shops. They really can't afford to pay more for general laborer type work. 

Compared to other entry level jobs, once you understand the value of the health care and retirement benefits, the wage doesn't look as bad, as long as you can pay make ends meet on that wage. 

You're also getting some free education. Compared to going back to school for a second degree, you could easily come out $40,00 - $60,000 or more in debt, with the apprenticeship if you pay your bills and don't rack up your credit cards, you're at least coming out a few bucks ahead with some money in retirement / annuity / pension. 

The value of the education you receive and a journeyman ticket will be less than some 4 year degrees, more than others, based on what you'll make back - especially once you factor in that debt. But it's really not a bad deal by any stretch. 

If you can't hack the apprenticeship, you can go find something else and really no harm done. If you can't hack collage, you can quit any time, but you take that debt with you. So college is the riskier proposition IMO.


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## LasVegasJDub86

Also I don't know how it is in your state but in Las Vegas where I went through the apprenticeship it was accredited through the college so I got college credits. I was basically (3) credits short of an associates degree when I completed the apprenticeship.


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## HackWork

I still don't think $16 is bad. It's well over minimum wage. The whole point is that you are starting at the bottom. Look at what first year resident doctors make, when you look at the hours they work it's less than $16/hr. And don't forget that they paid for their own education unlike in the IBEW.

I believe in the old times early apprentices weren't paid at all. Now you get a decent wage, excellent benefits package, free education, and it's still not enough for some people!


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## eddy current

I took a pay cut when I started. Best move I ever made.


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## socaldreamer

Agreed and interesting challenging work and new skills are worth it.
Better than going for an advanced degree and debt. I know folks with 200k in debt and law degrees that cannot find work as well as MS degrees in computer science!


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## telsa

At $16 per hour you're REALLY earning $35 per hour.

The astounding gap is built upon your Health Benefits Package... and a SLEW of Federal taxes.

That's RIGHT.

You're getting the SAME Health Benefits as an IBEW foreman.

In California, the IBEW does not slack off on health benefits for apprentices.

Non-union ECs freak out the moment you mention the required IBEW matching health packages required by the DAS. These are now obligatory for non-union ECs, too. 

Need I say it ? The number of dudes going through the ABC program has -- largely -- collapsed. The number of e-dudes that fled the state -- to return home -- is epic.

( Department of Apprenticeship Standards -- the state's glove over the IBEW's fist. )

( ie Sacramento )


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## telsa

$ BTW, $16 ~ 40% of j-man wages.

Do the math.

$16 / .40 = $40 per hour PLUS benefits.


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## telsa

BTW, at 40% you are being CARRIED.

No WAY are you earning $16 plus benefits.

That's why the IBEW is so picky about the fellas that are picked up for their program.

You won't 'earn your wage' until you're two-years into the program.

Everybody's subsidizing you.


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## socaldreamer

Makes sense and learning invaluable life time skills will be well worth it. I am planning to go on a workout program to prepare myself for the bust busting work since I am 46 and fat from working a sedentary office job for the past 20 years. Had to order high school transcripts today since it has been almost 30 years since I graduated high school! I think in 5 years time of making it through the program and with experience it would be great to teach others and do less of the hard core physical part and focus on the brain parts.


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## LasVegasJDub86

Tesla: Have you gone through the 4/5 year apprenticeship through the IBEW?? If so, you must have gotten lucky cause it seems to me like you think even as a 1st year apprentice they coast and are carried and don't earn their wage...? Just wondering what experience you have with that. I will tell you mine, I dug more trenches and did more underground in the 120 degree heat , carried more heavy **** and not to mention the "smartass" JWs who would mentally mess with you on a daily and some would treat you like crap. Now don't get me wrong , I have seen some pretty useless no good apprentices who purposefully coasted trying to fly under the radar thier whole 5 years definitely NOT earning their wage. But let me tell you... they definitely paid for all that screwing off IF they were even lucky enough to graduate . They just transferred from useless apprentice to a worthless JW in whom no EC wants. Anyways, I'm rambling. I'll end with this. I never worked so hard in my life my first 2 years . I earned every penny I made. And well worth it. Now as a JW, I'm not afraid to dig a ditch , haul heavy material , clean and organize material. I do the work that needs to be done. I try to work as a team with my company. Not ," let's be lazy and give all this BS work to the apprentice". Like a lot of guys.


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## LasVegasJDub86

And for social dreamer: Man my advice to you would be to yes definitely try to get in shape. Or no offense but you will be useless or close too. The electrical field is not the MOST physical out of all other trades but if you've been doing it long enough you know just how truly physical it can and will be. I only tell you for your benefit. If you want to do the "smart" stuff I recommend an office job. Project manager , estimator, etc. or instead of inside wireman, try the techs. They focus more on the low voltage side. I'd love to see you get in and start this new career for yourself , but if you want to be successful and sought after by the ECs, get in better shape. Idk how "out of shape" you are now , but it will only make your job more enjoyable and easier if you do! Good luck !


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## socaldreamer

I found out today that my t levels are medically low which would explain the fat gain since I lift weights and eat clean and hardly drink any alcohol. So I will get that fixed and bust my butt in the gym. I have no issue working hard. I dealt with mental games for 25 years in the corporate world with brain dead bosses half my age so I have the coping mechanism down. Plus I did construction work with my father when I was a kid and he would always yell at me so that helped me learn to do with it.

Thanks everyone I will focus on these things. I need to lose 20 pounds of fat.

I lost 100 pounds a decade ago and kept most of it off just need to get the hormone therapy and whip myself into shape to compete with the kids half my age.


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## LasVegasJDub86

Dreamer- well I must say you certainly seem very motivated for this! Best of luck with everything ! So what step are u on as far as getting into the apprenticeship?


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## socaldreamer

Thanks,

I had to order my high school transcripts this week since that is required for the application process. Once I have these then I will submit my application package to the local IBEW and schedule test date. In the meantime, I am working on losing weight and building functional strength by doing squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, climbing pullups stuff that heavy duty construction guys have to do.


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## 3rd Rail

Probably has something to do with obtaining a dollar increase in pay every 6 months. Compared to the apprentices from the 80's, Apprentices today earn more when they start, but at least once the 80's apprentices hit their 2nd, or 3rd year they earned way more than today's apprentices when you throw inflation into the mix.


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## HackWork

3rd Rail said:


> Probably has something to do with obtaining a dollar increase in pay every 6 months.


That's not the usual method.

Most locals pay their apprentices in percent of journeyman rate:

In my local:

1st 40%
2nd 50%
3rd 60%
4th 70%
5th 80%

Now this seems like a 10% raise every year, which in itself is huge, but it's actually much higher than 10% if you do that math (since that percentage is of the J-man rate, not the apprentice's rate).


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## socaldreamer

That makes sense it is tough living in San Diego with such high cost of living. 
I was making over 150k per year for most of the past 8 years so taking a 90% paycut is rough but I am frugal and have zero debt and keep my living expenses as low as possible given the high cost of living in California. I think of things in the long term so that helps me deal with it.

My one bedroom apartment is one of the cheaper ones in the area and still I pay $1350 to live. When I lived and worked in the bay area San Jose it was even worse at over 2k for a crappy one bedroom. So you really need to make at least 15-20/hr as a single person to pay rent, gas, food and insurance in California. Hopefully once I make it through the program then I can move into a bigger place and have breathing room from a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom place at least.


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## cabletie

The raise here is every six months for the first two years. It has been that way for a long long time. They adjusted the starting wage maybe four years ago. I think it's less than 40%. 

I'm with Tesla on this. Although it may be more like ten years before your paid what your worth. Just because you you can bust your ass digging a ditch, doesn't mean your worth anything. 

"Hey can you put plates on....well we don't need you, we already have guys that can do that". I always liked that line.


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## socaldreamer

My work ethic is second to none. I show up to work early, work late, never complain and aim to get the job done right. A lot of the apprentice kids that apply fail due to drugs or lack of ability to do basic math.


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## LasVegasJDub86

Socialdreamer- that is awesome man. You really seem to want this thing! Isn't there a specific day your only allowed to turn in your application? Just make sure you study for that test and at every interview you have to make sure you STAND OUT from the rest! You are obviously very passionate about this, let them see that! And don't give up if they don't call you back, continue to bug them and show them how bad you want it. I have high hopes for you my friend! Everything is gonna work out! Also if you have any questions about the apprenticeship , hit me up!


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