# Looking for a change



## BigGuy43 (Mar 15, 2019)

Hello folks, I’ve spent my career busting my ass for non union shops. I’m looking at joining the local where I live. I’m curious how organizing in works. Will I have to go in as a fourth year or would I be a JW when I get my state license? If I travel and find an area every few years I’d like to stay at, could I change locals? 
I’m 70/30 commercial:industrial experience with several years as a lead foreman. I don’t want to continue throwing my career away and still not have something to show for it. Can anyone offer me some advice?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The best advice I could give you is to find out some information about your local. In some areas the IBEW can be an awesome opportunity. In other areas there might be very little work and the compensation might not be much better than non-union.

As far as the specific things you asked about, no one can tell you for sure other than the business agent at your local. Every local is different. Some might allow you to enter as a journeyman, but most will require you to enter as an apprentice. In my local an established Electrician with 10 years experience will enter as a second or third year apprentice. They will usually not like that, but they’re happy with the paycheck which is still larger than the nonunion money they were making.

As far as switching locals, that is absolutely not something you could count on happening. It’s very hard to do. You can travel to other areas and work as a traveler, but joining that local probably won’t happen.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

You should talk to the organizer at your local, he's got all the answers. I've never heard of anybody "jumping" in as a J/W, some apprenticeship and schooling is pretty standard. There is however an "advanced" apprenticeship for people who've been in the trade for some time. At some locals you can sit on the book for months, some are always busy. Depends on the area. All locals have different pay scales mainly depending on COL in a particular area.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

If you have your JM ticket, how can they tell you you are an apprentice? Is that a USA thing?

I can't imagine if I went to the IBEW as a Master, they would tell me I am only an apprentice...

Cheers
John


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

I only had my ticket a few months when I organized in to my local. I joined as a full JW, no school or anything required. 90-day assessment period, with no benefits held back at all, and they passed me and let me swear in after only 60 days. 

Best move I’ve ever made.

I went from making $21/hr with negligible benefits to making six figures total package, in one day. And I don’t work my fingers to the bone. Quality of life is valued. 

I agree with the other folks: get in touch with important people at the hall and get some concrete answers to your questions. 

Traveling is definitely possible. You can sign in to other locals’ books, and even transfer fully into another local, if you jump through a few hoops. Happens all the time. It’s nice to know I could move anywhere in the country and - aside from figuring out any license reciprocity details - have a job.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> If you have your JM ticket, how can they tell you you are an apprentice? Is that a USA thing?
> 
> I can't imagine if I went to the IBEW as a Master, they would tell me I am only an apprentice...
> 
> ...


One has nothing to do with the other. The Journeyman Inside Wireman is an IBEW classification. It says that you posses a certain amount of skills and training. That training is often far better than someone can get outside of the IBEW. 

To get a Master license in my state you only need 5 years of experience. Many people get it by doing 99cent's ceiling fan installation for grandma working for a small resi contractor. The IBEW is not going to take them in as journeyman, that would be a disservice to the signatory contractor who is paying for highly trained and experienced experts.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Does that even apply with a "state" licence? To me that would be like saying that you cannot drive a union car because you have a state driver's licence and not a union one.

Cheers
John


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> Does that even apply with a "state" licence?


Yes, I was talking about a state license.


> To me that would be like saying that you cannot drive a union car because you have a state driver's licence and not a union one.
> 
> Cheers
> John


And yes, your analogy is accurate. The union often has a higher standard than most state, county, or municipal licenses.

Even if it’s not a higher standard, it’s their own standard which they are allowed to use as a private organization.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Very interesting, wonder if that is the same up here.

Thanks for that; love learning stuff!

Cheers
John


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> Very interesting, wonder if that is the same up here.
> 
> Thanks for that; love learning stuff!
> 
> ...


You have government sponsored apprenticeships, right? A red seal license that is honored across the country? All Electrician go through those programs whether they are union or nonunion?

The IBEW up there might choose to use that for their own standards.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I would think that is correct... however there are opportunities to "challenge" the exams without apprenticeship. I have taught both union and non-union students, so I know they do take the same schooling (at least in Ontario).

Cheers
John


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

HackWork said:


> You have government sponsored apprenticeships, right? A red seal license that is honored across the country? All Electrician go through those programs whether they are union or nonunion?
> 
> The IBEW up there might choose to use that for their own standards.


Yes.

The IBEW here does not run a trade school. All training is mandatory for all electrical workers and is done at colleges, licensing is done through the government. If someone comes from another country and can prove experience, they can challenge the schooling and even the red seal licence exam.

The IBEW training consists of extra training for apprentices to help them get through the college trade school and also has many courses like code updates, safety and fire alarm training for journeyman.

If someone joined the IBEW and was already a red seal licensed electrician then that is what they would be in the IBEW as well, it is a National licence, union or not.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

eddy current said:


> Yes.
> 
> The IBEW here does not run a trade school. All training is mandatory for all electrical workers and is done at colleges, licensing is done through the government. If someone comes from another country and can prove experience, they can challenge the schooling and even the red seal licence exam.
> 
> ...


Hot dog! I'm in . Challenge to the Red Seal. And Ice fishing here I come!
Are you guys allowed to hunt ducks still , or is it illegal to use firearms anymore?

I'm gonna need a little help. I don't know the names of any hockey teams.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

When an NECA//IBEW contractor won a monster contract to build a casino, they swooped up all of the non-union j-men who had been on the casino building its under-slab -- and more.

The IBEW did check the boys out, so it was not a totally automatic thing. They didn't want non-union apprentices, though.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Hot dog! I'm in . Challenge to the Red Seal. And Ice fishing here I come!
> Are you guys allowed to hunt ducks still , or is it illegal to use firearms anymore?
> 
> I'm gonna need a little help. I don't know the names of any hockey teams.


You will need more help passing the red seal then you will need remembering hockey team names. :wink:


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> Are you guys allowed to hunt ducks still , or is it illegal to use firearms anymore?


I think the only way you can hunt a duck is while riding a moose while wearing a beaver as a hat.


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

Wearing a beaver, or wearing a beaver skin hat?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> If you have your JM ticket, how can they tell you you are an apprentice? Is that a USA thing?
> 
> I can't imagine if I went to the IBEW as a *Master*, they would tell me I am only an *apprentice...
> *
> ...


In the 70's they told me that.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BigGuy43 said:


> Hello folks, I’ve spent my career busting my ass for non union shops. I’m looking at joining the local where I live. I’m curious how organizing in works. Will I have to go in as a fourth-year or would I be a JW when I get my state license? If I travel and find an area every few years I’d like to stay at, could I change locals?
> I’m 70/30 commercial: industrial experience with several years as a lead foreman. I don’t want to continue throwing my career away and still not have something to show for it. Can anyone offer me some advice?


If you had your masters and came to Northern Virginia you'd get in with stipulations, depending on what company you hook up with.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

cuba_pete said:


> Wearing a beaver, or wearing a beaver skin hat?


Both at the same time might be nice................


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