# Who replaces light boxes with fan boxes on service calls?



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The "other" guys are not electricians. You are bidding against drywall hangers and tapers who can't find enough paying work in their own arena. What you need to do is learn how to find a customer base that does not have interest in the cheapest price they can possibly get, but rather the best performance. 

That takes the real talent. I am not sure it can be taught.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Dylanewilliams said:


> Am I the only one who replaces nailed on metal boxes with fan boxes when replacing lights with fans on service calls? I feel like every client that has already got quotes said the other bidders didn't say anything about needing a fan box...


I always include that in my quotes,the guys who don't have no intention of using one either.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I always change the box since I am getting paid to do it.. :thumbsup:


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I change the box as well


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I like using these boxes... they cover most of the hole from the old box...


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Dylanewilliams said:


> Am I the only one who replaces nailed on metal boxes with fan boxes when replacing lights with fans on service calls? I feel like every client that has already got quotes said the other bidders didn't say anything about needing a fan box...


I do EVERY time, although I have gotten the same schtick from people. _
"The other guy never said anything about that."_ Well, it's the only way I'll hang a fan.

Side nail boxes can be replaced with SmartBox fan boxes very easily.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I use these


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'll replace the box if I'm hanging a fan. If not, the old box will stay unless there's another compelling reason to change it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Ever go to replace a ceiling box to convert to fan, only to discover that the existing box is a nail on 4 square and bakalite ring, with about twenty splices inside? And there is only floor joist above and no attic? And the splices are the soldered type with a wrap or two of friction tape? What would you do? Offset a new fan box? Cut a big square of ceiling out and replace/repair the whole shebang with a new plaster and paint job? Talk em into split air conditioning? Run away?


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Ever go to replace a ceiling box to convert to fan, only to discover that the existing box is a nail on 4 square and bakalite ring, with about twenty splices inside? And there is only floor joist above and no attic? And the splices are the soldered type with a wrap or two of friction tape? What would you do? Offset a new fan box? Cut a big square of ceiling out and replace/repair the whole shebang with a new plaster and paint job? Talk em into split air conditioning? Run away?


I'd try one of these before I'd cut open the ceiling.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

CopperSlave said:


> I'd try one of these before I'd cut open the ceiling.
> 
> http://s357.photobucket.com/user/treeyasoon/media/FanBox_zps2507b92c.jpg.html


HATE those things with a passion


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

drspec said:


> HATE those things with a passion


I'm not a huge fan (no pun intended) of them either. However, they do have their place from time to time....usually a last resort type situation.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

drspec said:


> I use these


Haven't seen those before. Where are you buying them at?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

drspec said:


> I use these


I just checked.... these boxes are rated 50# fan... 75# light fixture.. http://www.smartboxinc.com/electrical_boxes.php#RND


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Ever go to replace a ceiling box to convert to fan, only to discover that the existing box is a nail on 4 square and bakalite ring, with about twenty splices inside? And there is only floor joist above and no attic? And the splices are the soldered type with a wrap or two of friction tape? What would you do? Offset a new fan box? Cut a big square of ceiling out and replace/repair the whole shebang with a new plaster and paint job? Talk em into split air conditioning? Run away?


Or K&T with two inches of conductor in the box. Its a special treat when the box is mounted on a metal cross bar with a bolt in the back of the box. The old box isn't as deep as the fan rated boxes I can get locally so the bar has to be removed. Have you ever done that through a 4 inch hole?

Invent something, lobby to have it required as a standard and get rich. Sounds easier than installing a fan box.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

B4T said:


> I just checked.... these boxes are rated 50# fan... 75# light fixture.. http://www.smartboxinc.com/electrical_boxes.php#RND


And how many ceiling fans have you installed that weighed 50# or more lately?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

MHElectric said:


> Haven't seen those before. Where are you buying them at?


I buy mine from Womack in Cary


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I have no problem hanging a new fan from an old light fixture bar box that is plastered into the ceiling. I've done a million and no one has complained.

As someone mentioned, there always ends up being cloth covered conductors that are only 1.5" long and the plaster and lath around the box would need to be opened up, making it it really crappy project.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Ever go to replace a ceiling box to convert to fan, only to discover that the existing box is a nail on 4 square and bakalite ring, with about twenty splices inside? And there is only floor joist above and no attic? And the splices are the soldered type with a wrap or two of friction tape? What would you do? Offset a new fan box? Cut a big square of ceiling out and replace/repair the whole shebang with a new plaster and paint job? Talk em into split air conditioning? Run away?







:whistling2::laughing::jester::thumbsup:~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I have no problem hanging a new fan from an old light fixture bar box that is plastered into the ceiling. I've done a million and no one has complained.


Well it's hard to have much to say when the fan comes spinning down on your bed in the middle of the night, and shreds your body _(and your dog)_ to little enney weeny bits Hax...


~CS~


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## polyphase (Nov 1, 2011)

Most of the time I use a 2x4 between the studs when I have attic space, also there is a bracket with lag bolts that usually come with a fan, so therefore the fan is being held by the 2x4. If the fan falls than there is a bigger problem.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

polyphase said:


> Most of the time I use a 2x4 between the studs when I have attic space, also there is a bracket with lag bolts that usually come with a fan, so therefore the fan is being held by the 2x4. If the fan falls than there is a bigger problem.


why do that when you can use this?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

drspec said:


> And how many ceiling fans have you installed that weighed 50# or more lately?


Never... the modern ceiling fans weigh half as much as the older models that the code change was needed for....


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm the guy you all hate, I used a 4" round cut in in my bedroom and threw a few 3" drywall screws into the nearest joist for added support. The paddle fan is still up there.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

B4T said:


> Never... the modern ceiling fans weigh half as much as the older models that the code change was needed for....





B4T said:


> I just checked.... these boxes are rated 50# fan... 75# light fixture.. http://www.smartboxinc.com/electrical_boxes.php#RND


so what was your point?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I have no problem hanging a new fan from an old light fixture bar box that is plastered into the ceiling. I've done a million and no one has complained.
> ..........


Dead people tell no tales. :whistling2:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> why do that when you can use this?


That's for new construction, altho the tabs can be cut off the bottom of each plate and it could be used old work style. Probably easier than a 2X4 but it costs a lot more :thumbup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Dead people tell no tales. :whistling2:


Either way, it works out for me :thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Either way, it works out for me :thumbup:



Until you start wondering why you never get any repeat business. :laughing:


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> That's for new construction, altho the tabs can be cut off the bottom of each plate and it could be used old work style. Probably easier than a 2X4 but it costs a lot more :thumbup:


 
you are right, they are for new construction.

but when you have attic access, cut the tabs and voila.

I think I pay around $7 each. How much for a 4" octagon fan box and a 2x4?

and then the time for install. are you saving anything?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> you are right, they are for new construction.
> 
> but when you have attic access, cut the tabs and voila.
> 
> ...


I saw the box for $12+ on Amazon.

I have a bunch of 14.5" 2X4's cut already, they cost about 40 cents each and a fan rated pancake box is around $3. :thumbup:


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I saw the box for $12+ on Amazon.
> 
> I have a bunch of 14.5" 2X4's cut already, they cost about 40 cents each and a fan rated pancake box is around $3. :thumbup:


 
to each their own


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

drspec said:


> so what was your point?


It is a plastic box that can hold a fan without being fastened to "structural" wood framing... 

Not really a point.. just clearing up a grey area..


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## Dylanewilliams (May 17, 2013)

What about slapping a 2x4 on top of the joists in an attic directly above the old box, then using lags with fender washers through the KO's to support the box? I've never done it, but its got to be easier than patching plaster or dealing with 2" K&T conductors. Or lagging into the inevitable 1x6 thats above the old box in the attic?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

macmikeman said:


> Ever go to replace a ceiling box to convert to fan, only to discover that the existing box is a nail on 4 square and bakalite ring, with about twenty splices inside? And there is only floor joist above and no attic? And the splices are the soldered type with a wrap or two of friction tape? What would you do? Offset a new fan box? Cut a big square of ceiling out and replace/repair the whole shebang with a new plaster and paint job? Talk em into split air conditioning? Run away?


Been there, done that


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

Which is worse? 
a) Installing a fan on an existing box or
b) Not going into the attic to seal the vapor barrier


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

xlink said:


> Which is worse?
> a) Installing a fan on an existing box or
> b) Not going into the attic to seal the vapor barrier


Nobody ever got hurt from a "leaking: vapor barrier...


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## polyphase (Nov 1, 2011)

Dylanewilliams said:


> What about slapping a 2x4 on top of the joists in an attic directly above the old box, then using lags with fender washers through the KO's to support the box? I've never done it, but its got to be easier than patching plaster or dealing with 2" K&T conductors. Or lagging into the inevitable 1x6 thats above the old box in the attic?


Thats what I do most of the time why go thru all the trouble of removing a box when u put a 2x4 above it. Ive even used a round cut in with the ears. Go to all rooms cut in the boxes go to attic add 2x4 above all boxes install wiring go back install fans. Collect check Done. Next job


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I only change the box if absolutely necessary. If there's structure I can drive a screw into I'm happy.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

drspec said:


> I use these


Me too.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Haven't seen those before. Where are you buying them at?


Viking Electric here.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

The metal octagon fan-rated boxes look like a normal deep box except the screws are 10/32 instead of 8/32. Were we having problems with the 8/32 screws breaking?


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Balance the fan so it's wont vibrate itself off the ceiling. 

And some fans are heavier than others.. the lighter ones, who cares. The heavier ones, support that damn thing, somehow!


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

B4T said:


> I like using these boxes... they cover most of the hole from the old box...


looks like one that HAS to be on a joist. doesnt always cover the need


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

xlink said:


> The metal octagon fan-rated boxes look like a normal deep box except the screws are 10/32 instead of 8/32. Were we having problems with the 8/32 screws breaking?


 it used to be the TABS were breaking off, but of course they started getting fans better balanced and made lots of money by making us buy more expensive boxes because a couple of badly hung fans fell down. no actually, there were several!


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> I only change the box if absolutely necessary. If there's structure I can drive a screw into I'm happy.


Ditto. Hung 2 ceiling fans in an old house with plaster and lathe, knob and tube in loom and tarred romex. One spot had a 3 1/4" round box surface mounted and the other had a pancake box. I ended up using the 3 1/4" box as a splice (it was in a man-cave and the guy was cheap) and set a pancake box on a floor joist about 6" away, ran some 14-2 between the boxes and hung the fixture bracket with #12x2.5" screws straight into the joist. The other fan location the fan bracket was screwed straight to the joist. The customer is the Dad of one of my close friends, so we have been doing work for him for low money since he is a really nice guy and a disabled vet, so the work is budget minded, but perfectly code legal.

Those Smart Box fan boxes are slick, but super expensive! I bought one for something like $11 from my closest supplier, and I don't think I'll do that again. I can get a fan rated Westinghouse box from cheapo depot for $3.50 and it holds fans just as well.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't understand this fan box stuff.

I don't know... maybe I've installed 75 fans or so. New construction mostly. None of my fans are supported by the box. None.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Ever go to replace a ceiling box to convert to fan, only to discover that the existing box is a nail on 4 square and bakalite ring, with about twenty splices inside? And there is only floor joist above and no attic? And the splices are the soldered type with a wrap or two of friction tape? What would you do? Offset a new fan box? Cut a big square of ceiling out and replace/repair the whole shebang with a new plaster and paint job? Talk em into split air conditioning? Run away?











they come fan rated.....~CS~


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

FastFokker said:


> Balance the fan so it's wont vibrate itself off the ceiling.
> 
> And some fans are heavier than others.. the lighter ones, who cares. The heavier ones, support that damn thing, somehow!


Balance the fan???

A properly installed fan won't need to be balanced.

Balance kits are for guys that don't change the box


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> I only change the box if absolutely necessary. If there's structure I can drive a screw into I'm happy.


^^^ This and it is code compliant. ^^^

The NEC does not require a fan box be retrofitted.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

daveEM said:


> I don't understand this fan box stuff.
> 
> I don't know... maybe I've installed 75 fans or so. New construction mostly. None of my fans are supported by the box. None.


We are talking about old work.

When you go to an old house and pull down a light fixture in order to hang a fan, and find that the existing box is attached to a bracket that spans between the joists, what do you support the fan with? The plaster?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> ^^^ This and it is code compliant. ^^^
> 
> The NEC does not require a fan box be retrofitted.


That's the first time I heard this.

So all the talk about me killing people with falling fans in their sleep was unfounded.

I expect an apology from each and every one of you


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

We apologize for your _hack_ methods then..... 

I'm sure you've never killed anyone in their _sleep_ either

Excluding those who woke up next to you, and _THEN_ slit thier wrists.....:jester:


~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HackWork said:


> That's the first time I heard this.
> 
> So all the talk about me killing people with falling fans in their sleep was unfounded.





> 314.17(D) Boxes at Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fan Outlets. Outlet boxes or outlet box systems* used as the sole support* of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall be listed, shall be marked by their manufacturer as suitable for this purpose, and shall not support ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans that weigh more than 32 kg (70 lb). For outlet boxes or outlet box systems designed to support ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans that weigh more than 16 kg (35 lb), the re-quired marking shall include the maximum weight to be supported.



Just don't make the box the only support and you are good to go. 




> I expect an apology from each and every one of you


I am sorry you are ugly.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> *used as the sole support *
> 
> 
> Just don't make the box the only support and you are good to go.


 That won't work because in most of the old houses I work in the fixture boxes are on bar brackets no where near a joist. I'm back to being a hack, I guess.



> I am sorry you are ugly.


That's unnecessary. I am very pretty.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> they come fan rated.....~CS~


 
Ive actually used 3 of those in the past couple of weeks.

worked pretty well


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> Ive actually used 3 of those in the past couple of weeks.
> 
> worked pretty well


What's the benefit to them when hanging a ceiling fan? That they are wider so you may be able to get a screw into a joist?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> What's the benefit to them when hanging a ceiling fan? That they are wider so you may be able to get a screw into a joist?


in one situation I was installing 2 ceiling fans on existing exposed beams. worked better than attempting to recessed a pancake box into the beam.

in the other situation I was surface mounted wire mold in a ceiling with no access above.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> We are talking about old work.
> 
> When you go to an old house and pull down a light fixture in order to hang a fan, and find that the existing box is attached to a bracket that spans between the joists, what do you support the fan with? The plaster?


Like I said none of my fans are supported by the box. In old, the ceiling is chopped up slightly, 2x6 spanned across joists. Ceiling fixed and I hang the fan.

The way I do it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

daveEM said:


> Like I said none of my fans are supported by the box. In old, the ceiling is chopped up slightly, 2x6 spanned across joists. Ceiling fixed and I hang the fan.
> 
> The way I do it.


That's an extreme amount of work and most customers aren't going to want to do that just to hang a fan. 

That's why it's so much easier to just use the existing box :whistling2:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

daveEM said:


> Like I said none of my fans are supported by the box. In old, the ceiling is chopped up slightly, 2x6 spanned across joists. Ceiling fixed and I hang the fan.
> 
> The way I do it.


You have got to be kidding ,right?

So you are going to do all that when you could just put in an old work fan box for ten bucks an much less labor? And no sheet rock repair?

So they are going to patch,repair, repaint and then have you come back and hang the fan?

That's ridiculous


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Balance the fan???
> 
> A properly installed fan won't need to be balanced.
> 
> Balance kits are for guys that don't change the box


I don't balance and I don't change the box.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

FastFokker said:


> I don't balance and I don't change the box.


But you are Canadian so no one cares what you do. :whistling2:


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

daveEM said:


> Like I said none of my fans are supported by the box. In old, the ceiling is chopped up slightly, 2x6 spanned across joists. Ceiling fixed and I hang the fan.
> 
> The way I do it.


I cannot imagine how you mount a fan, that is intended to be mounted on a box, on 2x6 that is at least 4 inches above the ceiling. Are you putting warehouse fans in houses?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

xlink said:


> I cannot imagine how you mount a fan, that is intended to be mounted on a box, on 2x6 that is at least 4 inches above the ceiling. Are you putting warehouse fans in houses?



6" screws.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Just use a friggin crank out box. They cost like $10 you charge $150 and it takes like 10 minutes.











If you have to balance it make a mark on the ceiling and measure each blade to the mark. bend them a little so there all the same. Takes 3 minutes and works better then those weight kits.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Goldagain said:


> Just use a friggin crank out box. They cost like $10 you charge $150 and it takes like 10 minutes.
> 
> 
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/$(KGrHqJHJ!4E7)unSjIWBPGFeGoc6!~~60_1.JPG?set_id=8800005007[/IM]
> ...


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

My experience removing an existing ceiling box, putting the wires into a new box and solidly mounting the box with a good vapour seal is that it is difficult, time consuming and the results are not always satisfactory. Are my standards too high?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

xlink said:


> My experience removing an existing ceiling box, putting the wires into a new box and solidly mounting the box with a good vapour seal is that it is difficult, time consuming and the results are not always satisfactory. Are my standards too high?


Only in the vapor seal thing that you keep bringing up.

Typically in this part of the world we only use paper backed fiberglass batts as a vapor barrier between the attic and living space and it gets holes cut in it all the time with no ill effect.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

HackWork said:


> It takes 10 minutes to move the furniture, setup the drop cloth, and bring in the ladder.
> 
> That box could be a very big pain in the ass when you have plaster ceilings with wood lath. Many times you need to cut the plaster because the box is plastered in, which makes a dust storm You may also have to cut back the wood lath which loosens it from the plaster. Then you have to deal with the short wires and cloth covered conductors. Then when cranking that bar out you gotta be sure that it's tight but not too tight or it pushes the joist which could lead to nail-pop type plaster cracks.
> 
> In the end, it's easier to just hang the fan from the existing box. Just my opinion :whistling2:


Your right plaster lath changes everything, you also have those stupid edison boxes to deal with. BUT in plaster lath the boxes are usually already on the ceiling joist so taking out that piece of **** edison and replacing it with a pancake box isn't that bad. The wire falling apart is something else I would charge for. Heat shrink on the truck.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Most of the houses that I've had the pleasure of doing this in had BX VERY tightly coming into a normal box held between the joists with a bar bracket. 

During demo I have literally done pull ups on that old bar bracket trying to see how strong it is, and it held me. With the box plastered in, I think it's fine to hold up a typical newer lightweight ceiling fan.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

HackWork said:


> Most of the houses that I've had the pleasure of doing this in had BX VERY tightly coming into a normal box held between the joists with a bar bracket.
> 
> During demo I have literally done pull ups on that old bar bracket trying to see how strong it is, and it held me. With the box plastered in, I think it's fine to hold up a typical newer lightweight ceiling fan.


In that case I'd do the same thing. If its that strong its stronger than a crank out anyway. 

The old deteriorated bx tho is a big opportunity for a circuit restoration tho, I would show them, even take a few devices out and look at them and show them a repair, then give them the chance to do them all. You should get pics next time you come across it and add them to your device page or even make an "old wiring" page.

edit: I would even add a paragraph to your services page with all the brownstones you have up there. Call it restorations or something.


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

if its in an attic..ill measure a 2x4 and put it between the joists above the box, secure the 2x4 to the joists, then put some screws through the box into the said 2x4


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

HackWork said:


> It takes 10 minutes to move the furniture, setup the drop cloth, and bring in the ladder.
> 
> That box could be a very big pain in the ass when you have plaster ceilings with wood lath. Many times you need to cut the plaster because the box is plastered in, which makes a dust storm You may also have to cut back the wood lath which loosens it from the plaster. Then you have to deal with the short wires and cloth covered conductors. Then when cranking that bar out you gotta be sure that it's tight but not too tight or it pushes the joist which could lead to nail-pop type plaster cracks.
> 
> In the end, it's easier to just hang the fan from the existing box. Just my opinion :whistling2:


 not often, but i have drilled through a good, solid box and tapped it to #10 screws. IMO just as good or better than new boxes:thumbup:


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

Id ratther use a crank out box then a new work fan box even with attic access .. its more time spent bent over in an attic naa I'm good .. speed of insatllation is the most important factor always....


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

xlink said:


> I cannot imagine how you mount a fan, that is intended to be mounted on a box, on 2x6 that is at least 4 inches above the ceiling. Are you putting warehouse fans in houses?


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## haltonelectrician (May 27, 2011)

drspec said:


> Ive actually used 3 of those in the past couple of weeks.
> 
> worked pretty well


How do you use this?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

mattwright999 said:


> How do you use this?


 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbiLKu8ceHU





 
fast forward to about 6:30 of the video


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## haltonelectrician (May 27, 2011)

drspec said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbiLKu8ceHU
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That helps, thank you!


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

daveEM said:


>


I get it. You're drilling holes in the back of the box for the screws. It's an interesting solution and I'll put some 6 inch screws on my truck. I wonder if it would pass inspection to not attach the fan bracket to the box when it is shown attached in the instructions.

For new construction, I'll stick to fan-rated boxes.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

How about this handyman special. Lazy and cheap


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> How about this handyman special. Lazy and cheap


 
how much did you charge for that?


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

drspec said:


> how much did you charge for that?


That wasn't me. Doing an addition and saw that in the attic when I was running the smokes out.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

drspec said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbiLKu8ceHU
> 
> tbiLKu8ceHU
> 
> fast forward to about 6:30 of the video



Pure Garbage


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> Pure Garbage


 
whats garbage? the product? or the installation video?

what would you use to surface mount the fan?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

drspec said:


> whats garbage? the product? or the installation video?
> 
> what would you use to surface mount the fan?


The whole thing is garbage.

I wouldn't surface mount the fan I'd cut the sheet rock and use an old work fan box


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

drspec said:


> whats garbage? the product? or the installation video?
> 
> what would you use to surface mount the fan?



The product. And the installation video. If it were a block wall and a pre-stressed concrete ceiling maybe. But that was done on sheetrock.

Wiremold looks like ass.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> The whole thing is garbage.
> 
> I wouldn't surface mount the fan I'd cut the sheet rock and use an old work fan box


I would do the same if I had sheetrock.

The 2 installations I used them on the switch legs were fished down sheetrock walls. 

On the one install, there was a solid beam where fans were mounted. no way to recess or retrofit a fan box on.

The other install was a pre fab sun room with no attic access.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> The product. And the installation video. If it were a block wall and a pre-stressed concrete ceiling maybe. But that was done on sheetrock.
> 
> Wiremold looks like ass.


I didn't make the video, nor would I do a ****ty installation like that.

But the product does have its place. In my 2 installations I did recently, there really was no other choice.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

drspec said:


> I didn't make the video, nor would I do a ****ty installation like that.
> 
> But the product does have its place. In my 2 installations I did recently, there really was no other choice.



I wasn't criticizing you spec, and I know there are times thats all you can do but there the only times I touch that crap. It never looks good.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Goldagain said:


> I wasn't criticizing you spec, and I know there are times thats all you can do but there the only times I touch that crap. It never looks good.


Only times I touch that crap as well. These 2 recent installs were actually the only times I have ever used the fan rated boxes.

You should have seen how the homeowner wanted me to do the install for the fans on the exposed beam. I found a way to drill into the attic (which was barely big enough to belly crawl to) and only use the fan box versus the wiremold and 30 different fittings.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

xlink said:


> I get it. You're drilling holes in the back of the box for the screws. It's an interesting solution and I'll put some 6 inch screws on my truck. I wonder if it would pass inspection to not attach the fan bracket to the box when it is shown attached in the instructions.
> 
> For new construction, I'll stick to fan-rated boxes.


For sure new construction now with a fan rated box. 

I've always hung the fan to the box as per the instructions. Often the mounting bracket is much larger than the octagon box and the large screw can go through the bracket along the outside of the box into the 2x6 above.

I also use metal boxes only. The have several factory holes in the back of the box for mounting. My screw often goes through the fan bracket in the inside of the box and through one of the factory holes and then into the 2x6 header.

Even with the new fan boxes I'm thinking I'll always throw a 6"x#10 screw in. As far as I'm concerned that fan spends all its life trying to get off that ceiling.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

xlink said:


> I get it. You're drilling holes in the back of the box for the screws. It's an interesting solution and I'll put some 6 inch screws on my truck. I wonder if it would pass inspection to not attach the fan bracket to the box when it is shown attached in the instructions.


You still attach the fan to the box but you also attach the fan to the structure. 

Under the NEC that is permitted.


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## hangle (Aug 18, 2010)

drspec said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbiLKu8ceHU
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hey, this video actually tells you to install the bushings I was asking if anyone used the other day:thumbup:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

daveEM said:


>


I just went to Home Depot, the only 6" screws they had were these hardcore things that were $35 for a small box.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I just went to Home Depot, the only 6" screws they had were these hardcore things that were $35 for a small box.


How to make your own custom length hanger.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I just went to Home Depot, the only 6" screws they had were these hardcore things that were $35 for a small box.


*Bolt Supply* House.

My city has a few of these specialty supply houses. They have all kinds of bolts, nuts, washers, SS, metric, Galvanized, plated, graded, etc. Huge to tiny.

And they have screws.

If you were in Edmonton you could buy here...
http://www.boltsupply.com/EdmontonSouth.aspx


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Before (when HO tried to install fan):










Bolts holding box to metal cross-brace pulled through the box.




After installing old-work fan box:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I just went to Home Depot, the only 6" screws they had were these hardcore things that were $35 for a small box.


These things are awesome:









....they are a bit overkill for hanging a fan inside a house though.
I used about 600 of them building a raised 2-tiered planting bed :thumbsup:


For hanging a fan, a lag bolt is quick and cheap.


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