# Different Brand Breakers in Panels?



## Bob Sisson (Dec 17, 2012)

In another thread, there were several comments about Different Brand Breakers in Panels. I know that the rules are that that the Breakers must have been tested and -listed- for use in Panels, but am wondering about how that works.

I know that Cutler Hammer CH style panels basically ONLY take CH-CH Breakers while the BR style panel will take GE, SquareD, Siemens and many more. A Challenger panel will take almost anything, and still make it look wrong, loose, crooked, etc... (is there a cheaper panel than the Challenger??)

I generally only write up off-brand breakers when they are obviously loose, crooked, wrong physical size, (1" vs .75's), block the Dead front, Have Gaps in the Dead front, etc...

Ideally a GE panel would have all GE breakers, a SquareD would have all SquareD, and so on... but unless it is new construction I rarely see a single vendor panel. I don't know of a listed compatibility sheet, and even if there was one I don't think it would cover all the Panels I see (like Wadsworth) A mix of breaker brands is often a clue to DIY work as homeowners and handypersons use the cheapest breakers they can find (note I didn't say "that fits", as that is often the first clue, that they DON'T fit but were used anyway...)

Other than a comment such as "Off-Brand breakers were noted,... review for compatibility by a licensed Electrician...etc" what are the groups recommendations when the panels have a variety of breakers mixed in.

Remember, I am doing visual TRIAGE. I am not going to wiggle the breakers or pull them to look for hot spots, arcing, paint, corrosion, etc. I leave that to you... I am looking for -valid- reasons or clues to call for one of you to come in and spend the sellers money to clean up/fix/bless things (and a useful comment/wording for the reports)


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Lacking the ability to look at the label of the panel, I'd say anything that's not OEM is verboten. Just because other brand's 1" breaker fit and work doesn't mean they're classified for that panel.


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## Bob Sisson (Dec 17, 2012)

Even the Panels label is not much help, if it is readable behind all the wires in the trough. Most of the information on the panel label is about the panels capacity, clearing and carrying current, maximum number of breakers, screw torques, wire sizes, and more. 

I have never seen ANY panel label refer to another manufacturers breakers.

I have only seen information in the box for the individual breaker that said something like "this breaker is suitable for use in Cutler Hammer BR type panels, GE Panels,..." and lots more specific qualifiers. When I am on-site, any such documentation is long gone... and that is beyond the scope of what I am supposed to be doing anyway...

Found some other threads that talk about Cutler Hammer (BR) cross reference to SquareD, but it also says the warranty is void with anything other than Cutler Hammer breakers...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Nail/head Bob.....

Miniature breakers may be _'listed' _and/or_ 'classified'_ by an NRTL to fit other panel brands, yet most panel manufacturers void warranty on their inclusion....

Interchangeable Circuit Breaker




> *Mechanically compatable** with loadcenters from American Swich, Arrow-Hart, Bryant, Challenger, Cutler-Hammer, Electricenter, Frank Adams, GTE Sylvania, General Switch, General Electric, Gould, Montgomery Ward, Siemens. Murray, Thomas & Betts, Westinghouse.



*hammers anyone? ~C:whistling2:S~:no:


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Lacking the ability to look at the label of the panel, I'd say anything that's not OEM is verboten. Just because other brand's 1" breaker fit and work doesn't mean they're classified for that panel.


I'm surprised that U/L would list and label breakers, that are mechanical interchangeable with so many panel brands. Even skilled electricians are prone to subsitute, when the breaker is defective, rather than make a trip to the supply or big-box. The circuit protection will still exist!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I'll admit to a little '_field classification_' in the wee hours......~CS~:whistling2:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> I'll admit to a little '_field classification_' in the wee hours......~CS~:whistling2:


I can work magic with a roto zip :whistling2:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> Nail/head Bob.....
> 
> Miniature breakers may be _'listed' _and/or_ 'classified'_ by an NRTL to fit other panel brands, *yet most panel manufacturers void warranty on their inclusion....*
> 
> ...


Federal law says they can't. Just like Ford can't void your warranty if you use a non Motorcraft oil filter, as long as the filter meets or exceeds the OEM specs. Same with classified breakers. They meet or exceed the OEM breaker specs and the manufacturer can't void the warranty. 
Note that not all non-OEM all breakers that will fit in the panel have been classified for use in the panel. Without the classification by a testing lab there is no evidence that the non-OEM breaker meets or exceeds the OEM specs and that would be a reason for a manufacturer to void a warranty.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Thank you Don

I did not know that

Fact is, a rep handed me the warranty line

~CS~


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Truthfully , who among us has ever returned a ''load center'' back to the manufacturer over a warranty issue?


I've seen my share of electrical panels melt down, but they never seem to be spring chickens, and most always you cannot easily get a replacement set of guts cause they changed the line 13 mergers and buyouts ago.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I've returned two. A GE 20sp 100a and a 400a iline. Both had bad main connections and melted before the job was turned over.


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