# Is this safe to wire this way



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Bootleg! 

~CS~


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

As long as you don't abbreviate like a texting 14yo you should be OK here.


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

rockinrandy said:


> I was wondering if this was safe or common practice?


No, it is not safe and no, it is not common practice, at least not by real electricians. The person that installed those knew enough to be dangerous and has created a potential for someone to get hurt or worse.
At the very least, I would bring that to the attention of someone in management....especially if every unit is like that.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

What does , IS THIS SAFE TO WRITE THIS WAY , mean ? :001_huh:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

oldtimer said:


> What does , IS THIS SAFE TO WRITE THIS WAY , mean ? :001_huh:


I'm hoping it means Is this a safe way to wire a receptacle


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> What does , IS THIS SAFE TO WRITE THIS WAY , mean ? :001_huh:


Once you hit the submit new thread button you cannot edit the title of the thead.

Auto spell on these phones will mess you up:laughing:


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## rockinrandy (Feb 22, 2014)

HARRY304E said:


> Once you hit the submit new thread button you cannot edit the title of the thead.
> 
> Auto spell on these phones will mess you up:laughing:


That is exactly what happened. If I could edit the title i would. I even read everything in my post to make sure it made sense and all the words were correct. I guess I missed the title. I was pretty sure that the wiring was incorrect and that someone had just done this so they didn't have to rewire the whole complex. It's these types of things that made me find somewhere better, i.e. local jatc.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Ok Randy, now that we've sufficiently addressed the grammar nonsense , do you know what you're looking at?

~CS~


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## rockinrandy (Feb 22, 2014)

Yes, they have the common or neutral tied to the ground lug of the outlet. Not sure what side but am pretty sure it should continue from one outlet to the next continuously. This makes me think there is no real common except at the first outlet and that the next outlet's common is coming from the body of the previous outlet.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Once you hit the submit new thread button you cannot edit the title of the thead.
> 
> Auto spell on these phones will mess you up:laughing:


But you _can _ask a mod to edit it for you.........:whistling2:


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## GatewaySparky (Jul 23, 2010)

In my experience, apartment management really doesn't care....until someone gets shocked enough to complain.


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Can be a real problem when the next hack tries to fix a ground fault by swapping the grounded and ungrounded conductors


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

This looks like a bad case of lazy electrician syndrome. Customer asks for 3 prong but only 2 wire available so they jump the ground to the neutral.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Once you hit the submit new thread button you cannot edit the title of the thead.
> 
> Auto spell on these phones will mess you up:laughing:


 O.K. What is a THEAD ? :laughing:


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> O.K. What is a THEAD ? :laughing:


said with a lisp :laughing: :laughing:


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

gnuuser said:


> said with a lisp :laughing: :laughing:



THORRY ! I should have known ! :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> O.K. What is a THEAD ? :laughing:


Dam! I did that on the computer too....:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

rockinrandy said:


> That is exactly what happened. If I could edit the title i would. I even read everything in my post to make sure it made sense and all the words were correct. I guess I missed the title. I was pretty sure that the wiring was incorrect and that someone had just done this so they didn't have to rewire the whole complex. It's these types of things that made me find somewhere better, i.e. local jatc.



What happens is this, the client calls 3 different electrical contractors.

One electrical contractor correctly prices the job to re-wire the whole house so the client can have 3 prong receptacles $8,000.03

The other two electrical contractors price it out to just swap out the receptacles, a quick $800.03. What these guys do is create a bootleg ground knowing that years will go by before it is ever detected, and by that time no one will remember who done it..:no:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Don't rule out the tenants replacing their own receptacles.


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## whittom (Sep 20, 2010)

We call that a piggly wiggly in V.A. Only done to fool the home inspectors when an outlet isn't properly grounded.


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## DanielinSOFLA (Feb 27, 2014)

was the electrician trying to use the neutral as a ground or the ground screw as a neutral conductor? don't get it, but if it isn't green, its hazardous.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

IslandGuy said:


> Don't rule out the tenants replacing their own receptacles.


I don't think that any tenant would know enough to tie the neutral to the ground terminal. They would just install a U-ground receptacle and connect it the same way as the original.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

retiredsparktech said:


> I don't think that any tenant would know enough to tie the neutral to the ground terminal. They would just install a U-ground receptacle and connect it the same way as the original.


correct this is a typical hack to fool inspectors done by a fly by night types


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## Detective (Nov 1, 2013)

rockinrandy said:


> First of I'm going to say I'm going to be starting my apprenticeship next week but as I finish getting my last apartment ready as an apartment maintenance tech i notice something different with the outlets. http://s982.photobucket.com/user/gr... Uploads/20140226_134351_zps1ab9b67b.jpg.html I was wondering if this was safe or common practice? It seems that they ran one leg of the common wire to the body of the outlet so that when i plug in a tester it seems fine (just basic 3 light outlet tester for verifying correct wiring). As i think about this I realize that there are almost 200 apartments that I would bet are wired the exact same way.They took the old two wire -ground and made it appear to be 2 wire with ground. Just thought I would ask.


I agree that the best option would be to rewire but we usually just install a GFCI.

I just copied this from the Mike Holt forum.

You may run into some "resi" work that involves retrofitting an existing 2-wire system. What are your options when working with old 2-wire wiring devices?

The NEC requires you to install grounding-type receptacles on 15A and 20A branch circuits. Per Sec. 210-7, it also requires you to effectively ground the grounding contacts of those receptacles to the branch circuit equipment-grounding conductor. But, what can you do about old 2-wire nongrounding-type receptacles, where no ground exists in the outlet box?

Sec. 210-7(d)(3) permits any of the following installations when replacing a 2-wire ungrounded receptacle:

(a) Replace it with another 2-wire receptacle;

(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;” or

(c) Replace it with a grounding-type receptacle protected by a GFCI device (circuit breaker or receptacle). Since the grounding terminals for the receptacles are not grounded, you must mark the receptacles with the words “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground” (see Sidebar: Understanding GFCIs).


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