# What makes a good foreman?



## Frasbee

2cents from an apprentice:

Know how to delegate properly. Not everyone may be as awesome as you, so spread them out in a manner that is most efficient for all.

Be aware of the eager guys, maybe they aren't as experienced, or haven't performed a certain task before, but give them an opportunity and they can be come that much more valuable in the long run.

Remember, you set the tone. If you regularly take an extra 5 minutes on break, everyone will expect that extra 5 minutes on break. Likewise, if you don't concern yourself with a clean jobsite, then many guys will follow suit, same with taking care of company tools, (and safety).

Avoid throwing fits and embarrassing someone in front of a crowd, it usually just leads to resentment and a toxic work environment. That _doesn't_ mean you shouldn't hold people accountable for their actions. There are more productive ways to improving the work experience and fixing mistakes.

Give credit, where credits due.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

Frasbee said:


> 2cents from an apprentice:
> 
> Know how to delegate properly. Not everyone may be as awesome as you, so spread them out in a manner that is most efficient for all.
> 
> Be aware of the eager guys, maybe they aren't as experienced, or haven't performed a certain task before, but give them an opportunity and they can be come that much more valuable in the long run.
> 
> Remember, you set the tone. If you regularly take an extra 5 minutes on break, everyone will expect that extra 5 minutes on break. Likewise, if you don't concern yourself with a clean jobsite, then many guys will follow suit, same with taking care of company tools, (and safety).
> 
> Avoid throwing fits and embarrassing someone in front of a crowd, it usually just leads to resentment and a toxic work environment. That _doesn't_ mean you shouldn't hold people accountable for their actions. There are more productive ways to improving the work experience and fixing mistakes.
> 
> Give credit, where credits due.


 
Good post Frasbee. I also read once that the best leaders should jump in and help on the worst, dirtiest, stinkiest, most resented jobs. It leaves no room for whining pussies. I applied that to a 15 man crew when I worked for another company. It worked well.


----------



## 480sparky

Plan far enough ahead that you have the manpower and material available on site when a given task will need to be done.

Work with the other trades.

Keep a written log and take photos of the job site every day, if not every other day.

Learn to delegate. Each man under your watch will cost you 1 hour per day. If you have 8 people, you shouldn't have your tool belt on.

Be reliable.

Treat everyone with respect.

If you've already had 'medium' size job experience, you're 80% there already.


----------



## HARRY304E

truelight said:


> I am looking to start working for a company that does large electrical projects. I have run mostly medium. What makes for a good Electrical foreman. How can I be the best foreman for the company?


Leadership...You must be a good leader.
You must be able to motivate each and every man on your job every day without being an ..
You should be able recondnize slackers and trouble makers and get rid of them on a daly basis.

If all your men respect you they will work hard for you..
If they don't ...You wont last long.


----------



## Loose Neutral

You have 4's and 8's and at the end of the day you get 6. Not everyone is a 8, so you have to learn to deal with the hand dealt and find that niche for every man. Keep the jobsite clean, make sure to have the proper materials and defiantly make sure to have the tools to do the job. Good luck.


----------



## sparky105

make sure that your men complete a task started. If you give 10 men 5 things to do in a day and they each leave 1 loose end not complete that is 10 lose ends that come back to haunt you if that happens for just 7 days that is 70 small things that are going to nag you to death. Just imagine when at the end of a years time that you didn't keep this in check. Remember that you can't possible carry the whole job on your back. 
Keep the other trades foremen happy we are always the last ones on the job and there fore we are always the trade that is holding up the job.:no: I have grown very thick skin and a real convincing fake smile. Going off on another trade may be satisfying to you at the time but it sure will bite you later.
Lastly leave your feelings at home. There is no room in the work trailer for feeling sorry for your self or someone else. good luck


----------



## Big John

If you've been running crews I'm sure you know most of this stuff, but I'll put it out there just in case:



Don't yell. There is no problem that yelling will fix and it will probably make it worse because it will screw up moral.
Don't take your problems out on the crew. Even if you're pissed at one guy, you've gotta be able to put on a smile for the rest of 'em.
Don't micromanage. Your guys are capable journeymen; if you have to do their job for them there's no point having them there. Which also means if you discover it's necessary to micromanage a guy, you need to sit down with him to determine if he needs to be let go.
Lead by example. Do exactly as you expect your guys to do; everyone hates hypocrites.
-John


----------



## miller_elex

What's a medium sized job? $200k?

I was recommended to read, 'How to Win Friends and Influence People.'

Awesome book, it reads well.

Have a plan A, plan B, and plan C? Run the job, don't let the job run you, and it will make money.

Bring people inside, make them feel invested in the success of the job.

And my personal one, is to spend at least five minutes a day teaching an apprentice something new.

Don't suffer an a-hole PM, life is too short. They will give you an ulcer and you will die early.

Me myself, I am very organized, put everything in binders and folders, and buy many varieties of material to do the wierd jobs. (its specialty work.) Material is way cheaper than labor in the end.

Don't take anything I say seriously, the end.


----------



## jza

Take extra long breaks.
Buy all the guys lunch at least once a week.


----------



## HARRY304E

jza said:


> Take extra long breaks.
> Buy all the guys lunch at least once a week.


 YA! as long as all the guys make up the time at the end of the day:laughing:


----------



## micromind

The above posts are excellent, one thing I would add is find out each persons strengths and weaknesses. 

Use their strengths, don't try to make everyone a well-rounded electrician. 

I'm good with motors, generators, and especially controls. While I certainly can bend pipe, I'm not as good at it as some of the other guys. Plus, I don't like it. 

The company makes a lot more money when I'm building a control panel that they do when I'm bending pipe. 

Rob


----------



## manchestersparky

I ran work for many years.
One of the best things a good foreman will always remember is

There is NO "I" in team.
A foreman is only as good as his or her crew. Don't fall into the habit of saying I did this or I did that. I used to say My crew did this or My crew did that. Sharing the credit or giving all the credit to the crew goes a long way in showing that you respect your men.


----------



## Englishsparky

No but there is me in team lol, my favourite foreman was organised, never stopped thinking about the job. I did price work and all our materials were organised on a pallet where we were working ready for us...


----------



## Rudeboy

miller_elex said:


> What's a medium sized job? $200k?


I don't think a medium sized job is $200k. There aren't thousands of electrical foreman out there running $200k jobs all at the same time. 

Someone has to actually work.


----------



## Rudeboy

I think what frasbee posted was right on.
:thumbsup:

Except it's _laying out_ a job, not "spreading out."
:thumbup:


----------



## miller_elex

Rudeboy said:


> I don't think a medium sized job is $200k.


Okay then, a medium sized job is $500k?

Am I out of the loop? You need to have a decently long job which mans up and down to have a foreman IMO. Anything less is a journeyman from the service dept.


----------



## Rudeboy

miller_elex said:


> Okay then, a medium sized job is $500k?
> 
> Am I out of the loop? You need to have a decently long job which mans up and down to have a foreman IMO. Anything less is a journeyman from the service dept.


Really why?

There can't be a foreman for a 100k job? 

Honestly, and who cares if he come out of the service dept? That j-man may know more than anyone and can handle the customer.

Okay you win, he'll be now known as "lead electrician"


----------



## The Lightman

truelight said:


> What makes for a good Electrical foreman.


Treat your people right. Go out of your way for them and they'll do the same.


----------



## miller_elex

Rudeboy said:


> Okay you win, he'll be now known as "lead electrician"


Sorry, I just have experienced scorn from my PM for me and my tiny $100k job, that's all. Like it was an inconvinience he even had to think I existed with that tiny pesky annoying contract. That is all. Maybe it's me that's effed up.


----------



## nitro71

Have enough materials and tools. Can't stress that enough. Almost every large jobsite I've been on did not have enough of either. The cost of the tools is small in comparison to the cost of lost labor.


----------



## erics37

Don't be like this guy from Temple of Doom


----------



## doubleoh7

Dont berate, chastise, yell at , throw a temper, etc., at any of your guys. If their work or behavior causes you to do this, you do not have the temperment to manage. Keep your poker face and discuss the matter calmly and in private with the individual. If you feel that the individual deserves this treatment, they don't. They should be terminated after warning(s) in a business like manner.

Don't compliment the individual as a person. Compliment their work instead. 

The above is my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.


----------



## Jlarson

Lead by example 
Be organized 
Plan, have lots of plans and have plans for when those plans fail miserably
Communicate with the guys
Don't ignore problems, take care of them immediately
Be as hands off as possible, most hate having people watching and micromanaging



micromind said:


> Use their strengths, don't try to make everyone a well-rounded electrician.


That too, defiantly 



doubleoh7 said:


> Dont berate, chastise, yell at , throw a temper, etc.


Probably good advice but at least in my case every once and awhile someone does something so profoundly stupid that yelling and getting pissed just can't be avoided.


----------



## Frasbee

Big John said:


> *Don't micromanage.* Your guys are capable journeymen; if you have to do their job for them there's no point having them there. Which also means if you discover it's necessary to micromanage a guy, you need to sit down with him to determine if he needs to be let go.




 I wanted to highlight this.

From my experience, this kind of leadership style can be debilitating to the productivity of the men. I worked for a couple of these. One of them would detail exactly how he wanted me to run the pipe, every bend, kick and offset.

Problem was, if I ran into something we hadn't discussed, I was inclined to stop and get his opinion. Foreman/bosses that are extremely detailed in how they want things done, even going so far as to have things _redone_ after an employee took some initiative can paralyze their work force.

Be selective about what tasks that require your undivided attention.


----------



## jwjrw

I think a good foreman gets everyone together every morning and goes over the game plan for the day. What needs to get done and what has to be finished. He assigns tasks and ask if anyone has any issues or if anything happened yesterday to slow them down. Are they running out of any material (just in case something did not get on the order list), and then tells everyone to be safe and get to work. Then he handles his morning duties and starts going from crew to crew helping and making sure things go the way they should.


----------



## leland

micromind said:


> The above posts are excellent, one thing I would add is find out each persons strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> Use their strengths, don't try to make everyone a well-rounded electrician.
> 
> I'm good with motors, generators, and especially controls. While I certainly can bend pipe, I'm not as good at it as some of the other guys. Plus, I don't like it.
> 
> The company makes a lot more money when I'm building a control panel that they do when I'm bending pipe.
> 
> Rob



...and when you get a guy like this,hook him up with some one who is good, most people like to expand and learn. it also keeps them involved and breaks up their monotony,and when enjoying work you get more done.

be fair,consistent and honest. Respect is earned, and goes a VERY long way. As well as 'Atta boys' ("good job, Thanx"):thumbsup:


----------



## firelient

jwjrw said:


> I think a good foreman gets everyone together every morning and goes over the game plan for the day. What needs to get done and what has to be finished. He assigns tasks and ask if anyone has any issues or if anything happened yesterday to slow them down. Are they running out of any material (just in case something did not get on the order list), and then tells everyone to be safe and get to work. Then he handles his morning duties and starts going from crew to crew helping and making sure things go the way they should.


I think this is important. Just as important to me is to let everyone know what you expect from them in the begining so they know what you expect and reward for jobs well done. learn what your men weakness and strengths are, move men to help the weak..for a well rounded TEAM!:thumbup:


----------



## Big John

Had to deal with this one today:

If you discover you have someone on your crew who does nothing but bitch and talk crap, cut that off at the legs: Sit down with him and explain that problems are to be brought to you and you will make an honest effort to address them, but his crying to everyone and stirring up drama accomplishes nothing and will not be tolerated. 

That type of stuff is infectious and can really foul up an otherwise decent crew.

I have a saying that I absolutely believe is true: 
Find me the guy who talks the most garbage, and I will show you the most useless guy on that crew, bar none.


Frasbee said:


> ...Foreman/bosses that are extremely detailed in how they want things done, even going so far as to have things _redone_ after an employee took some initiative....


 Yeah, that sucks the big one; it's a pretty quick way to make a guy resent the hell out of his boss.

-John


----------



## jwjrw

Big John said:


> Had to deal with this one today:
> 
> If you discover you have someone on your crew who does nothing but bitch and talk crap, cut that off at the legs: Sit down with him and explain that problems are to be brought to you and you will make an honest effort to address them, but his crying to everyone and stirring up drama accomplishes nothing and will not be tolerated.
> 
> That type of stuff is infectious and can really foul up an otherwise decent crew.



The only guy on our jobs allowed to bitch and complain is me.....You are so right about one persons attitude causing the whole crew to go into a funk. I usually can find some "alone" work for "that guy". Like cleaning the trench out when it's 20 degrees outside or attic work during the summer. 





Frasbee said:


> [/LIST]
> I wanted to highlight this.
> 
> From my experience, this kind of leadership style can be debilitating to the productivity of the men. I worked for a couple of these. One of them would detail exactly how he wanted me to run the pipe, every bend, kick and offset.
> 
> Problem was, if I ran into something we hadn't discussed, I was inclined to stop and get his opinion. *Foreman/bosses that are extremely detailed in how they want things done, even going so far as to have things redone after an employee took some initiative can paralyze their work force.
> *
> Be selective about what tasks that require your undivided attention.




I personally don't want an employee taking initiative. I want one that follows orders and asks for clarification if they are not sure about something. If I want something done a certain way I will tell you do it like this. A lot of times an employee may not realize that we are doing it this way for a reason. I may not have time or feel the need to clue you in on that information. So give me a guy who says yes sir no problem. I'm done boss whats next? Do you care how I do it? That's my kinda employee.


----------



## StarLo

What makes a good foreman is the ability to make money for his contractor.

I have found over the years that the "good foreman" in the worker's opinion is usually the guy who just doesn't make much money. The "asshole, prick, etc." foreman in the worker's eyes is the man who brings the job in quick and cheap. 

I have found, especially in this economy, that I don't mind being a prick. I've seen many of those mid-range foreman who the guys like going to sign the 2 year list at the hall.


----------



## StarLo

Jlarson said:


> doubleoh7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dont berate, chastise, yell at , throw a temper, etc.,
> 
> 
> 
> Probably good advice but at least in my case every once and awhile someone does something so profoundly stupid that yelling and getting pissed just can't be avoided.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. Yelling at or talking down to a man isn't going to get you anywhere, except possibly a fight which only leads to jail or the hospital. 

A layoff is the best option and will send the right message to the other men.


----------



## Big John

jwjrw said:


> ...I personally don't want an employee taking initiative. I want one that follows orders and asks for clarification if they are not sure about something. If I want something done a certain way I will tell you do it like this. A lot of times an employee may not realize that we are doing it this way for a reason. I may not have time or feel the need to clue you in on that information. So give me a guy who says yes sir no problem. I'm done boss whats next? Do you care how I do it? That's my kinda employee.


 To me there's a difference between taking initiative and disobeying orders; maybe it's a fine line. I would prefer a man who tried to solve his own problems, even if he was wrong occasionally, to one who expected me to solve every problem for him.

Besides, I've seen the type of crap I expect Frasbee is talking about: Once did a job where we had to redo a rack of a dozen 3/4" rigid pipes because we kicked a 90 instead of using offsets. The only reason we redid it is because the boss said he didn't like how it looked. 
A) That's a really stupid reason.
B) If someone is that anal, they need to make it clear before the work is done, not after.

-John


----------



## truelight

StarLo said:


> What makes a good foreman is the ability to make money for his contractor.


This is really helpful. This is probably what the owner of the co would say.


----------



## truelight

That being said. If you can pull that off with your integrity intact and keep the job safe, that would seem like a home run.


----------



## jwjrw

Big John said:


> To me there's a difference between taking initiative and disobeying orders; maybe it's a fine line. I would prefer a man who tried to solve his own problems, even if he was wrong occasionally, to one who expected me to solve every problem for him.-John




I was mainly talking about the guy who finishes what he was assigned to do then just starts doing another task without asking if that is what I need done. I also want people smart enough to solve their own problems but also smart enough to know when to ask for help too. A fine line indeed.






Big John said:


> Besides, I've seen the type of crap I expect Frasbee is talking about: Once did a job where we had to redo a rack of a dozen 3/4" rigid pipes because we kicked a 90 instead of using offsets. The only reason we redid it is because the boss said he didn't like how it looked.
> A) That's a really stupid reason.-John





My desire to make lots of money would of made me like the work that was done.










Big John said:


> B) If someone is that anal, they need to make it clear before the work is done, not after.-John






And that is why I said if I want it done a certain way I will say do it this way.
If I don't say do it anyway you want to but it better look good.


----------



## StarLo

truelight said:


> This is really helpful. This is probably what the owner of the co would say.


Who better to determine what makes a good foreman?

Seriously, I'd like an honest answer to the question.

There is only 1 person that I need to impress. Everything else falls into place from there.


----------



## Big John

StarLo said:


> Who better to determine what makes a good foreman?
> 
> Seriously, I'd like an honest answer to the question.
> 
> There is only 1 person that I need to impress. Everything else falls into place from there.


 Honestly, I disagree. The higher-ups can have all the opinions they want about "what makes a good foreman." But if the guys doing the work don't like the foreman, and aren't happy with the job, you can expect the work to suffer, which I guarantee won't make the higher-ups happy.

If it weren't for the guys under me, I wouldn't have a job, because I'm sure not capable of doing all the work myself. I worry about them first and foremost, because once they're happy and doing a good job, *then* everything falls into place.

-John


----------



## hardworkingstiff

*my 2 cents*

A lot of good advice here (I especially like the "How to Win Friend and Influence People suggestion).

A good foreman needs to understand the job. The foreman needs to understand what the critical path is and keep everyone on it.

Document everything in writing. Keep organized. 

Keep good notes (you won't remember in an hour).

Remember, if the men don't have materials or equipment to install and use, then time starts wasting and life gets miserable. 

Try to not let the job define who you are (that's my Zen stuff, lol).


----------



## StarLo

Big John said:


> Honestly, I disagree. The higher-ups can have all the opinions they want about "what makes a good foreman." But if the guys doing the work don't like the foreman, and aren't happy with the job, you can expect the work to suffer, which I guarantee won't make the higher-ups happy.


 You haven't read this discussion from the beginning. I said what makes a good foreman is one who makes money for the contractor. truelight argued that point saying that only a company owner would say something like that. I then explained that the company owner is the best judge if he is happy with the money the foreman is making. If the foreman is making the money, apparently work isn't suffering.


> If it weren't for the guys under me, I wouldn't have a job, because I'm sure not capable of doing all the work myself. I worry about them first and foremost, because once they're happy and doing a good job, *then* everything falls into place.


 I don't see it that way. The guys under me are replaceable, in this economy they are very easily replaceable. That's just the way of life, if they don't want to produce, someone else will take their spot. Sure, I have no problem giving credit where it is due, that credit comes in the form of a very large paycheck and the opportunity to make another one next week. 

It seems as if you let the workers push you around too much.

I don't mean to sound like a bully. The fact is that most of my workers like me, the reason for that is because the workers who don't like me are the slackers who complain that I don't let them out until 3:20 or that I don't let them take a 30 minute coffee break, so they laze around like you said (make the work suffer) and I lay them off. What I have left is a crew of guys who actually enjoy the work and know their role in the show.


----------



## 480sparky

One of the handiest things is a digital voice recorder. I carry one almost all the time when one the job. I can say what I want to write down a lot faster than I can write it down, even though I carry a notebook as well. When i get time later, I can either do my own dictation, or act on the verbal note I left myself and erase it.


----------



## Jlarson

Here's one. *This really isn't for the foremen it's more for the guys working under them.* Everybody is human even the leaders and occasionally we get angry, pissed, say things, or make mistakes but it's all part of the being human thing. 


Just thought I'd throw that out there, it seems like more and more guys expect the people in charge to be perfect and what not all the time and it just doesn't work that way.


----------



## HARRY304E

Jlarson said:


> Here's one. *This really isn't for the foremen it's more for the guys working under them.* Everybody is human even the leaders and occasionally we get angry, pissed, say things, or make mistakes but it's all part of the being human thing.
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd throw that out there, it seems like more and more guys expect the people in charge to be perfect and what not all the time and it just doesn't work that way.


If you have 20 guys on a project in this state that meens 10 journeymen Electricians and 10 helpers and you have to keep them all busy..

Clicks can devope some good and some bad,, The bad ones will be a marjority of tricky slackers and will have the exchuse handbook with them You need to find them and fire them all on the spot otherwise you will lose control of the hole crew.. 

When the economy is red hot this problem gets much worse and you must stay on top of it every day .

I have had guys go out with no coat on and start their car at 2:50 when we work till 3:30 i make them drive off the property and tell them i will drop off their stuff after work that what you have to to do to keep some guys in line...


----------



## Jlarson

HARRY304E said:


> If you have 20 guys on a project in this state that meens 10 journeymen Electricians and 10 helpers and you have to keep them all busy..
> 
> Clicks can devope some good and some bad,, The bad ones will be a marjority of tricky slackers and will have the exchuse handbook with them You need to find them and fire them all on the spot otherwise you will lose control of the hole crew..
> 
> When the economy is red hot this problem gets much worse and you must stay on top of it every day .
> 
> I have had guys go out with no coat on and start their car at 2:50 when we work till 3:30 i make them drive off the property and tell them i will drop off their stuff after work that what you have to to do to keep some guys in line...


You read the post wrong harry. Or maybe I worded it wrong as I make a better electrician than I do a writer.:laughing: I meant that guys need to remember that the person in charge is human and not perfect.


----------



## HARRY304E

Jlarson said:


> You read the post wrong harry. Or maybe I worded it wrong as I make a better electrician than I do a writer.:laughing: I meant that guys need to remember that the person in charge is human and not perfect.


I make a better electrician than I do a writer.:laughing: Same here:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Frank Mc

StarLo said:


> I have to disagree. Yelling at or talking down to a man isn't going to get you anywhere, except possibly a fight which only leads to jail or the hospital.
> 
> A layoff is the best option and will send the right message to the other men.


Personally i would rather have someone yell at me if i did wrong ..than being a lowlife and taking the easy option....grow some balls ...

Frank


----------



## Frank Mc

jwjrw said:


> The only guy on our jobs allowed to bitch and complain is me.....You are so right about one persons attitude causing the whole crew to go into a funk. I usually can find some "alone" work for "that guy". Like cleaning the trench out when it's 20 degrees outside or attic work during the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally don't want an employee taking initiative. I want one that follows orders and asks for clarification if they are not sure about something. If I want something done a certain way I will tell you do it like this. A lot of times an employee may not realize that we are doing it this way for a reason. I may not have time or feel the need to clue you in on that information. So give me a guy who says yes sir no problem. I'm done boss whats next? Do you care how I do it? That's my kinda employee.


I thought you were kidding but i guess your f**king serious...;-)..How many employees do you actually have ...???
Frank


----------



## jwjrw

Frank Mc said:


> I thought you were kidding but i guess your f**king serious...;-)..How many employees do you actually have ...???
> Frank





Example: We received a change order for lutron custom color dimmers one day. I told employee number 3 to finish roughing in the garage then call me for instructions. When he finished the garage instead of calling me for instructions he started trimming out the rooms we remodeled. When I arrived he had installed about 60 devices...........they all had to be removed and the lutrons installed. That little "initiative" the employee used cost us money. What I was trying to point out is that the best employees follow orders and ask what's next boss. They know that the foreman has a plan and they are a part of it. I've been on jobs where there were too many chiefs and not enough indians. There are 6 of us 2 are used as needed.


----------



## StarLo

Frank Mc said:


> Personally i would rather have someone yell at me if i did wrong ..than being a lowlife and taking the easy option....grow some balls ...
> 
> Frank


Typical. I see you're the type of worker that I was speaking about.

Thank you for providing a perfect example.


----------



## Electro481

Usually large jobs are in phases anyway. So just look at it as if it is several medium sized jobs under one package. Have a 2 week look ahead and make sure you always have the proper tools and material for each project. Some people are better at certain projects than others so you need to find the right task for each man. It will usually result in a happier crew if the men are doing the task they enjoy doing. If the men are happy the job will run just about run itself.


----------



## jwjrw

StarLo said:


> Typical. I see you're the type of worker that I was speaking about.
> 
> Thank you for providing a perfect example.



He thinks I'm crazy for wanting my employees to do what they are told and not what they think they should do.....:blink:


----------



## Big John

StarLo said:


> ... If the foreman is making the money, apparently work isn't suffering...The fact is that most of my workers like me....


 If you make money on your jobs and your guys like working for you, then maybe our methods of doing thing aren't as different as they seem, because of course those are my goals, too.

-John


----------



## Mike in Canada

I can understand StarLo's point of view. I don't share it, but I can understand it. At my shop we take more of a 'family' view of things. We'd like to have the same good crew forever. It won't happen, but that's the goal. We're more interested in the personalities than the credentials. If a person doesn't work well with others then it doesn't matter how good they are - they're no good to US.


----------



## sparky105

Big John said:


> To me there's a difference between taking initiative and disobeying orders; maybe it's a fine line. I would prefer a man who tried to solve his own problems, even if he was wrong occasionally, to one who expected me to solve every problem for him.
> 
> Besides, I've seen the type of crap I expect Frasbee is talking about: Once did a job where we had to redo a rack of a dozen 3/4" rigid pipes because we kicked a 90 instead of using offsets. The only reason we redid it is because the boss said he didn't like how it looked.
> A) That's a really stupid reason.
> B) If someone is that anal, they need to make it clear before the work is done, not after.
> 
> -John


There are 1500 guys in our local that equates to 1500 ways to wire something .If I had to tell every single guy what to do or how to wire it I would never get anything done. My theory is unless it will cost the company excessive time or money show the J man the print and they will get it done. If I give them the three basics materials , tools and information. I will not baby sit or hold hands with a worker. Toe the line or sign the list.


----------



## 2phase5wire

Here's what a good foreman does.

1) Supplies all the tools, material and information for the job.
2) Coordinates with the other trades so the men don't have to.
3) Asks questions AND answers them as well.
4) Doesn't micro manage and trusts his men to do it right. The only time a good foreman micro manages is when he has a specific purpose to do so.
5) Asks for suggestions from his men especially from the more seasoned guy's.
6) This might be the most important one, knows how to delegate the work. How to put crews together and understands personalities.
7) Isn't afraid to jump in and get bloody when needed.

Those are just to keep the men happy and productive.

Making money and keeping the ever nervous PM happy is a different thing all together.

1) keep detailed notes, save receipts, emails, and faxes.(this is the CYA part).
2) Know your schedule. Don't let pushy GC's run it for you. Always stay a little ahead and remember to keep some "just in case" work available.
3) Know your prints in side and out.
4) Catch problems before they happen. 
5) Develop good relationships with the other trade foreman.
Especially the equipment operator.
6) Don't waste your apprentices on clean up and coffee runs. Every job is gonna have at least one that stands out. Get the most out of them as you can. That equals to profit making production.

Last but not least, push your men Monday through Thursday but reward them on Friday (longer break, maybe lunch out) You will be rewarded with unparalleled production. :thumbsup:

Plus everything that Frasbee said.


----------



## Frank Mc

StarLo said:


> Typical. I see you're the type of worker that I was speaking about.
> 
> Thank you for providing a perfect example.


You have no idea of the type of worker i am......... I work as a subby so therefore if i dont perform im gone in a flash......

Frank


----------



## Frank Mc

jwjrw said:


> He thinks I'm crazy for wanting my employees to do what they are told and not what they think they should do.....:blink:


No i dont think your crazy for wanting your employees to do what they are told....BUT for employees not to show initiative i disagree..... I have seen what happens when the boss tells the guys how to do every single job...They hit a snag and are afraid to make a decision ............

Your example was not an employee showing "initiative" it was one failing to follow the instructions you gave him....big difference

Frank


----------



## Zog

Lead by example


----------



## bill39

Make sure the guys have the material, tools, and information to do the job.

Not having any of those 3 things is a sure fire way for problems to occur.

Then lead by example: display a good attitude and be on time. A bad attitude trickles down very quickly and can ruin a job forever.


----------



## guest

2phase5wire said:


> Here's what a good foreman does.
> 
> 1) Supplies all the tools, material and information for the job.
> *2) Coordinates with the other trades so the men don't have to.
> 3) Asks questions AND answers them as well.*
> 4) Doesn't micro manage and trusts his men to do it right. The only time a good foreman micro manages is when he has a specific purpose to do so.
> *5) Asks for suggestions from his men especially from the more seasoned guy's.*
> 6) This might be the most important one, knows how to delegate the work. How to put crews together and understands personalities.
> *7) Isn't afraid to jump in and get bloody when needed.*
> 
> Those are just to keep the men happy and productive.
> 
> Making money and keeping the ever nervous PM happy is a different thing all together.
> 
> 1) keep detailed notes, save receipts, emails, and faxes.(this is the CYA part).
> 2) Know your schedule. Don't let pushy GC's run it for you. Always stay a little ahead and remember to keep some "just in case" work available.
> 3) Know your prints in side and out.
> 4) Catch problems before they happen.
> *5) Develop good relationships with the other trade foreman.
> Especially the equipment operator.*
> 6) Don't waste your apprentices on clean up and coffee runs. Every job is gonna have at least one that stands out. Get the most out of them as you can. That equals to profit making production.
> 
> *Last but not least, push your men Monday through Thursday but reward them on Friday (longer break, maybe lunch out) You will be rewarded with unparalleled production.* :thumbsup:
> 
> Plus everything that Frasbee said.


I added the bold on the big points that I feel indicate a great foreman. :thumbup:

Frasbee and 2phase5wire pretty much hit the nail on the head, and I thanked the others with great idears. 

I worked for a yeller and screamer, and it was a very non-productive environment. I was able to deal with it because at the time I didn't need the work, and when I was right I would yell and scream right back.  Oddly, that boss stopped yelling at me after a few such battles, and would calmly and respectfully express himself after that (with me anyways.)


----------



## BuzzKill

Beat the apprentice's mercilessly, have a few ass-kissing lead men and sit in the truck and talk on the phone.


----------



## jwjrw

BuzzKill said:


> Beat the apprentice's mercilessly, have a few ass-kissing lead men and sit in the truck and talk on the phone.


Ahhh the american dream in a nut shell....


----------



## BuzzKill

jwjrw said:


> Ahhh the american dream in a nut shell....


...actually the lead men beat them: the foreman is too busy sitting in the truck.


----------



## jwjrw

BuzzKill said:


> ...actually the lead men beat them: the foreman is too busy sitting in the truck.




I was saying the foreman sitting in the truck has the american dream....but really I meant me sitting in the truck.:laughing:


----------



## BuzzKill

jwjrw said:


> I was saying the foreman sitting in the truck has the american dream....but really I meant me sitting in the truck.:laughing:


same here! Been a lead man but never a foreman.


----------



## nitro71

The real answer is it doesn't matter what we as employees want in a foreman. What we get is some **** sucker that kisses the owners ass for the most part. If you have the luck to work for a good foreskin be sure to appreciate it. I know I do when the rare one comes along.


----------



## BuzzKill

nitro71 said:


> The real answer is it doesn't matter what we as employees want in a foreman. What we get is some **** sucker that kisses the owners ass for the most part. If you have the luck to work for a good foreskin be sure to appreciate it. I know I do when the rare one comes along.


not the right answer..foremen (the good ones) are motivators to employee's and yet stand up to the PM and his BS.


----------



## miller_elex

Frank Mc said:


> Personally i would rather have someone yell at me if i did wrong ..than being a lowlife and taking the easy option....grow some balls ...


Why get emotionally involved with a P.O.S. that isn't worth my time?

It's easy to distinguish between who cares and who does not.

EDIT: Yelling and screaming is justified after the relationship has been damaged such that there is no other course to repair it.


----------



## Jlarson

miller_elex said:


> Why get emotionally involved with a P.O.S. that isn't worth my time?


It's kinda hard not to get pissed and emotional when some genius trashes 5 figures worth of instrumentation and control gear, or when someone hooks up a really expensive custom motor up wrong or when some guy bypasses limits to troubleshoot and ends up trashing a machine. 

Those are the only times I can remember ever yelling otherwise I try very hard to avoid it.


----------



## Frank Mc

Jlarson said:


> It's kinda hard not to get pissed and emotional when some genius trashes 5 figures worth of instrumentation and control gear, or when someone hooks up a really expensive custom motor up wrong or when some guy bypasses limits to troubleshoot and ends up trashing a machine.
> 
> Those are the only times I can remember ever yelling otherwise I try very hard to avoid it.


Yes it would be pretty hard to not get angry when very costly stuff up,s are made....Were those mistakes made by inexperienced tradesmen ...??....

Frank


----------



## knomore

I thought my project was small at 1.3 million... I've been the foreman for our site for about a year now, and a few things I've picked up on are:

1. Keep everything organized, your prints, your workorders, your jobsite. If you can't keep it clean find a helper to do it for you. 1/2 the battle if finding the crap you need when you need it.

2. Keep everyone happy so long as it won't affect the bottom line, and it's legal.

3. Be open and upfront with your employees. Let them know how it is, and don't be afraid to tell them when they make a mistake. Show them and then show them how to fix it.

4. Know that some day the people who work for you will be your boss, and you really don't want them to remember you as a jerkoff.

5. Have a little fun, but not so much that everyone just starts screwing off all day. Keep the mood serious but fun.

6. If one of your guys screws up it's your fault. No really it's your fault.

7. Never take a long break, never show up late, never leave early, and never get sick. You need to be that one guy who is always there rain or shine.

8. If you see someone doing something dumb tell them, but don't make it a big deal unless it really is one.

9. Emotions are great, but you need to learn to forget you have them. That is unless Iowa looses a game then you punish your whole crew for an entire week.

10. Know your stuff about safety. If there is ever an accident you want to know what to do, and how OSHA will respond. Getting sued is never fun, and where I'm from it's 100% legit to sue a foreman if you get hurt!


----------



## Big John

knomore said:


> 6. If one of your guys screws up it's your fault. No really it's your fault.


 That's a good one that a lot of bosses never get: Any significant failure in a company is ultimately a failure of management. Even if it only involves a single employee, it is because that employee was not being properly supervised that his mistake was allowed to cause that failure.

I once watched a foreman scream like a little girl at his crew about how nothing was going right, and blame them all for the problems. I just wanted to hand him a mirror and tell him to look in it while he cried.

-John


----------



## HandsOfSparks

StarLo said:


> The guys under me are replaceable, in this economy they are very easily replaceable. That's just the way of life, if they don't want to produce, someone else will take their spot.


Wow, what a terrible way to think about your men. Having a high turnover rate is no way to make money for your company.


----------



## jza

The best foreman's buy their entire crew breakfast and lunch everyday. It keeps them motivated.


----------



## brian john

jza said:


> The best foreman's buy their entire crew breakfast and lunch everyday. It keeps them motivated.


If I am on site I buy, other wise it is up to them to feed themselves.


----------



## cabletie

HandsOfSparks said:


> Wow, what a terrible way to think about your men. Having a high turnover rate is no way to make money for your company.


He said that is the way of life and it is true. It used to be replaced with a dime, now everyone has cell phone plans. He is talking about un-productive workers not all workers. Hopefully complacent guys get a talk first. With some contractors having a 50% turnover rate is just business, big business. Not everyone is going on to the next big one. In a good economy maybe not everyone wants to. For some reason I don't think he needs help figuring out who makes a good foreman and has plenty.


----------



## hardworkingstiff

cabletie said:


> He said that is the way of life and it is true. It used to be replaced with a dime, now everyone has cell phone plans. He is talking about un-productive workers not all workers. Hopefully complacent guys get a talk first. With some contractors having a 50% turnover rate is just business, big business. Not everyone is going on to the next big one. In a good economy maybe not everyone wants to. For some reason I don't think he needs help figuring out who makes a good foreman and has plenty.



To put it in more evolutionary terms, it's called natural selection.


----------



## RIVETER

mcclary's electrical said:


> Good post Frasbee. I also read once that the best leaders should jump in and help on the worst, dirtiest, stinkiest, most resented jobs. It leaves no room for whining pussies. I applied that to a 15 man crew when I worked for another company. It worked well.


If you are expected to keep 15 men working efficiently, and productively, I would not think that I'd be in there doing the work. I'd be busy planning.


----------



## RIVETER

BuzzKill said:


> Beat the apprentice's mercilessly, have a few ass-kissing lead men and sit in the truck and talk on the phone.


Maybe you have something there. I have never been on a job that someone did not think that he knew more than the boss. Should I conclude that ALL bosses are dumb?


----------



## Current

HandsOfSparks said:


> Wow, what a terrible way to think about your men. Having a high turnover rate is no way to make money for your company.


Hey buddy, that was me who made that post and I stand by it. 

FACTS are FACTS. Everyone is easily replaceable, even more so in this economy. Either produce OR be replaced by someone else who will.

I'm sorry if this offends people, but it's the real world. Survival of the fittest.


----------

