# Pool Pump and Pool Equipment



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I have a job I'm working on where I saw a new deck being built around an above ground swimming pool. The pump and everything is now under the deck. There's also an AC condensing unit underneath there too! I have a feeling the building inspection may fail.
> 
> What kind of idiot does this?
> 
> I'll have pictures tomorrow.


There is nothing wrong with that type of install as long as there is room for maintenance on the units.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

This here is the subject. Apparently this contractor had no clue how to do this work to code and is now being sewed (sp?) by the homeowner.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

What is the contractor being sued for specifically


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Im not sure if thats OK with the A/C unit, but pool pumps underneath a wrap around deck is fairly common. 

Usually they have 1 or 2 access gates on the lattice.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I have a job I'm working on where I saw a new deck being built around an above ground swimming pool. The pump and everything is now under the deck. There's also an AC condensing unit underneath there too! I have a feeling the building inspection may fail.
> 
> What kind of idiot does this?
> 
> I'll have pictures tomorrow.


Assuming there is enough airflow for the AC unit I don't see any problem.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> The pump and everything is now under the deck. There's also an AC condensing unit underneath there too! I have a feeling the building inspection may fail.


Why would it fail?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> What is the contractor being sued for specifically


For taking this woman's money ($16,000.00) and not finishing the job. 

This is one of my neighbors and believe me it has been a circus over there. 

I feel bad for the lady as she is divorced and lives alone now. 

The contractor does not have money now to finish the job, including fixing a fence he destroyed when pruning a tree, some issues with the existing fence now not being high enough for a swimming pool like this, and fence door latches that need to be 'reversed' for the new pool. Not a huge deal but the contractor here was not aware of the complete scope of the work and is now in over his head and can't finish the job. That's all I know.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Btw, she explained that she had an electrician (me) to do this work but the contractor used his own guy. How much did the EC charge to wire an above ground pool you ask? 

$200.00 

It gets better when I find out that the original installation failed for no equipotential bonding grid. Two hundred dollars? lolololololololol


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Assuming there is enough airflow for the AC unit I don't see any problem.


I see this as improper clearances for repair work later on and a fire hazard for that condensing unit.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I see this as improper clearances for repair work later on and a fire hazard for that condensing unit.


It could be an issue if you have to access the unit has the sides and top as one. I have seen some like that but not many


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I see this as improper clearances for repair work later on and a fire hazard for that condensing unit.


Do you have any code sections in mind?


I am not seeing any fire hazard with the condensing unit.

It may have to work harder and the instructions may call for more vertical clearance for airflow.

Now if a genset was under the deck I could see a fire hazard.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Do you have any code sections in mind?
> 
> I am not seeing any fire hazard with the condensing unit.
> 
> ...


Now, it went from readily accessable to not readily accessable. Its going to blow up like the boardwalk


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> I feel bad for the lady as she is divorced and lives alone now.



Looks like you got a date for the company Christmas party there :thumbsup:

Go get 'em tiger :thumbup:


:laughing:


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## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

I would expect them to have compressors go out on the condenser . Not to mention an increase in power bill in the summer . No way it will get the proper air circulation .


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Do you have any code sections in mind?


For arguments sake.... 

680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more
means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors
shall be provided for all utilization equipment other
than lighting. *Each means shall be readily accessible* and
within sight from its equipment and shall be located at least
1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool,
spa, or hot tub unless separated from the open water by a
permanently installed barrier that provides a 1.5 m (5 ft)
reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is to be measured
from the water’s edge along the shortest path required
to reach the disconnect.

I realize now it's a stretch but to me the disconnect is not readily accessible like the code requires. I also realize the disconnect is "within sight from it's equipment" but neither can be seen from inside the pool and IMO that is a safety concern. I wouldn't want to be in that pool getting electrocuted and not be able to see where to disconnect this thing, would you? :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I realize now it's a stretch but to me *the disconnect is not readily accessible* like the code requires. I also realize the disconnect is "within sight from it's equipment" but neither can be seen from inside the pool and IMO that is a safety concern. I wouldn't want to be in that pool getting electrocuted and not be able to see where to disconnect this thing, would you? :laughing:


Is that any worse than a disconnect in the middle of a crawl space for a heating system?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

so far I'm not sure I see anything that might not be readily accessible (of course, I'm just looking at a lousy pic and I also don't know what she has planned)


```
Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
ladders, and so forth.
```


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

wildleg said:


> so far I'm not sure I see anything that might not be readily accessible (of course, I'm just looking at a lousy pic and I also don't know what she has planned)
> 
> Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
> reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
> ...


Like i was saying, cant be accessed in 30s or less so NOT readily accessable


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I also realize the disconnect is "within sight from it's equipment" but neither can be seen from inside the pool and IMO that is a safety concern. I wouldn't want to be in that pool getting electrocuted and not be able to see where to disconnect this thing, would you? :laughing:


When you go to a public pool, like a hotel or gym, where is the disconnecting means located?


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

BBQ said:


> When you go to a public pool, like a hotel or gym, where is the disconnecting means located?


Depends how new. I've done a couple new hotels with master shutoffs located within the pool area. Not required but it was speced


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Depends how new. I've done a couple new hotels with master shutoffs located within the pool area. Not required but it was speced


Not the same, those are EPOs not disconnecting means and are code required for non-dwelling hot tubs. 

I am sure some insurance carriers are asking for the at pools as well. They have nothing to do with shocks, they have to do with drownings due to pump suction.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Not the same, those are EPOs not disconnecting means and are code required for non-dwelling hot tubs.
> 
> I am sure some insurance carriers are asking for the at pools as well. They have nothing to do with shocks, they have to do with drownings due to pump suction.


Well...I dont the answer to this, and im curious now....its also getting to be late, so whadda say you go ahead and kill the suspense here? :thumbup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Is that any worse than a disconnect in the middle of a crawl space for a heating system?


That's a fair analogy. :thumbsup:


Like an attic hatch too.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> When you go to a public pool, like a hotel or gym, where is the disconnecting means located?


In the electrical panel. :thumbsup:


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

I don't see a problem with putting equipment under a deck that would have (if finished) had an access door, and is readily accessible.

Under the deck is no different than under a house in a crawl space, or up in an attic. Terrible places to go as a tradesman, but great for homeowners who don't want to see those yucky ugly machine parts stuff.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> In the electrical panel. :thumbsup:


Within sight of the remotly located pumps. 

The point I was trying to make is that disconnecting means are installed for servicing the equipment not for emergencies. 


Compare these two sections. 



> *680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. *One or more means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors shall be provided for all utilization equipment other than lighting. *Each means shall be readily accessible and within sight from its equipment* and shall be located at least 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool, spa, or hot tub unless separated from the open water by apermanently installed barrier that provides a 1.5 m (5 ft) reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is to be mea-sured from the water's edge along the shortest path re-quired to reach the disconnect.






> *680.41 Emergency Switch for Spas and Hot Tubs.* A clearly labeled emergency shutoff or control switch for the purpose of stopping the motor(s) that provide power to the recirculation system and jet system shall be installed at a point *readily accessible to the users* and not less than 1.5 m (5 ft) away, adjacent to, and within sight of the spa or hot tub. This requirement shall not apply to single-family dwellings.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I am sure some insurance carriers are asking for the at pools as well. They have nothing to do with shocks, they have to do with drownings due to pump suction.


Chuck Palahniuk wrote a short story about this. Saint Gut-Free didn't die... though I'm sure he wishes he had :whistling2:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Within sight of the remotly located pumps.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is that disconnecting means are installed for servicing the equipment not for emergencies.
> 
> ...



I totally understand where you are going with that. Next storable pool I do I'll be looking for the closest deck to put all the wiring. :thumbsup:


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## M8729 (Oct 29, 2013)

This is my first post on this forum. I obtained my Master's 3 years ago. I mainly do commercial wiring and I love how I can see pictures and also the code quotes. I look forward to reading more about residential and commercial talks 

Brian


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