# PVC underground



## kd129 (May 30, 2016)

Hello everyone. I’m hoping to get your guys opinion on this matter. I’ve been working in the commercial electrical field for 26 years and have never heard this before. We have a former department which was built in approximately 1969; the store has been vacant for years (it has been maintained with parking lot and common area lights staying on) that was recently sold. The department store controls about 10 poles in the parking lot and exit /EMG and about 6 MH can lights out in the shopping area. The MDP panel which is 277/480 is about five feet from the panel that controls the parking lot panel which goes out underground from that panel and feeds the pole lights in PVC. The pole lights are straight 480 and fused for each head.  Power is on to the department store, but the new owner decided to turn off the lights. We had a big meeting about getting the lights turned back on and there electrician stated that the parking lights could not be turned on due to water in the conduit. He also went on to state that underground conduit should not leak and could electrify all steel in the building due to a short. My opinion states that all underground PVC conduit eventually leaks and as long as the wire and breakers are rated for it there should be no problem. I also when on to state that everything in that building is grounded and bonded. The underground for the common area lighting also runs underground approximately 200’ to a sub panel and we both had the same argument as to why this panel could or could not be turned on. Sorry for the long post, but I feel they have no valid points and wanted to see if the community can add to my opion.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Underground PVC is going to get water in it, whether it is from leaks or condensation, it will happen.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Ask him for documentation with cited code references.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

There hasn't been a conduit invented yet that won't get water in it when put underground. That "electrician" has never turned a screw in his life. He's probably an engineer.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What's the actual problem here? Is water coming out of the pipe into the panel? If not, then how does he know there is water in the pipe?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

kd129 said:


> We had a big meeting about getting the lights turned back on and there electrician stated that the parking lights could not be turned on due to water in the conduit. He also went on to state that underground conduit should not leak and could electrify all steel in the building due to a short.


My opinion is this guy has no clue what he's talking about and is either a newbie, an impostor, or an engineer as Inphase said.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

So when ever there was a power outage and the power came back on, it would create this same scenario. What happened then...nothing. Boy would it be fun making him look like a fool in a meeting.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

supco 500 to the rescue.


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Their electrician is an idiot. Show him this thread.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

If the underground conduit is required to stay dry, why do we have 300.5(B) in the NEC?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Your consultant isn't an electrician, if he were, he would know that our conduits are not watertite. 
I think you have quite a bit of liability on the owner by leaving the parking lot lights off.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It sounds like the owner of that one store doesn't want to pay for the parking lot lights and got his electrician to come up with some excuse.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Supco 500 to the rescue.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

The inside of a raceway in a wet location is a wet location.

He can megger it if he feels better.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> Supco 500 to the rescue.


What's with the Supco ? $80 at wal-mart :blink:


For the OPs problem, +1 with jrsy ... if he doesn't need the lot lit up, why should he pay for useage and maint. !


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

emtnut said:


> What's with the Supco ? $80 at wal-mart :blink:
> 
> 
> For the OPs problem, +1 with jrsy ... if he doesn't need the lot lit up, why should he pay for useage and maint. !


If they are really only $80 bucks at Walmart then you should buy two. I make a mint off of mine. And it is a perfect way (beside obvious code education) to verify the wiring in those conduits is in good working order. You can't argue with a green led light..............


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> If they are really only $80 bucks at Walmart then you should buy two. I make a mint off of mine. And it is a perfect way (beside obvious code education) to verify the wiring in those conduits is in good working order. You can't argue with a green led light..............


Wasn't sure if you were kidding ... But if it has the MacMike seal of approval, for that price worth looking into :thumbsup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Wasn't sure if you were kidding ... But if it has the MacMike seal of approval, for that price worth looking into :thumbsup:


Ok here's the deal. Helen housewife , (especially the majillionair ones that live in Portlock or Hawaii Loa Ridge) just love it when I easily verify the safety of the wiring in the mansion. And my little Supco 500 has colored led's which is something Helen can understand, not a bunch of confusing ohm's. She see's green, and I see green capiche? When we find a red light, it's a nice big job as well. An easy sell. I tell them it's my special meter. Even the husbands get sucked in easy, cause they never saw a meter like that that says good, caution , and bad on the side of the lights.... P.S. it helps to have set up pricing charges for same on your iPad before you begin.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

I've never pulled a dry cable from an underground conduit. I've rarely climbed down a manhole that didn't need to be pumped out first. If the wires are rated for the use there is no violation. 
Like others have said he could megger, but there probably is no safety issue.

As far as the light being on or off? Most of the property management firms I've worked for have always kept their exteriors lit up on vacant buildings. To leave them in the dark would be asking for trouble.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Ok here's the deal. Helen housewife , (especially the majillionair ones that live in Portlock or Hawaii Loa Ridge) just love it when I easily verify the safety of the wiring in the mansion. And my little Supco 500 has colored led's which is something Helen can understand, not a bunch of confusing ohm's. She see's green, and I see green capiche? When we find a red light, it's a nice big job as well. An easy sell. I tell them it's my special meter. Even the husbands get sucked in easy, cause they never saw a meter like that that says good, caution , and bad on the side of the lights.... P.S. it helps to have set up pricing charges for same on your iPad before you begin.


Put on this same show many times to sell motors, compressors, and so forth.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> If they are really only $80 bucks at Walmart then you should buy two. I make a mint off of mine. And it is a perfect way (beside obvious code education) to verify the wiring in those conduits is in good working order. You can't argue with a green led light..............




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## Flyingsod (Jul 11, 2013)

kd129 said:


> He also went on to state that underground conduit should not leak and could electrify all steel in the building due to a short. .


 BAHAHAHAAAAAhahaaaaa! How did you keep from laughing at him?
Ask him if he understands the concept of a grounded conductor and then berate him for purposely insulating his building steel from the earth and not grounding it . 

This is pretty much proof that you are dealing with a very ignorant person. edjumacate him or ignore him... those are your two sane choices


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

I'd probably ask him how he feels about wires coming out of a weatherhead getting wet in a rainstorm. Does that too, electrify the mast/meterbase/steel, etc?

It's fun to pose questions like these to people who seem to talk faster than they think, just so I can watch them taste the crow!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Why does he imagine the conduit is designated a wet location?

Why does he imagine the conductors are rated for wet locations?

Why does he think equipment grounding and OCP exist?

I'm not sure why it's your fight to convince this goober, but I would ask for a written list of concerns and would respond with cited code sections.

If you want you can do like others have mentioned and perform an insulation resistance test.

Hope you're getting paid for every hour wasted on this nonsense.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

Does there electrician go by the name Cletis?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Sounds like he needs a pair of Klein's to the head.


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