# Union member starting own business



## Canaduh

Im a 353 member, how does one go about starting their own small business while in the ibew?
I will be coming up on 3 years and want to write my masters, get out of commercial construction and just go on my own in my truck, a one man shop working on residential service and repair.

I'm just so sick of commercial construction and I really enjoyed my time running around in a service van for my old boss.

Does the ibew frown upon this? Will I have to unionize the company if I dont plan to hire any employees?
I was thinking about talking to someone at the hall but I dont want to raise any red flags is this is frowned upon.


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## wcord

Canaduh said:


> Im a 353 member, how does one go about starting their own small business while in the ibew?
> I will be coming up on 3 years and want to write my masters, get out of commercial construction and just go on my own in my truck, a one man shop working on residential service and repair.
> 
> I'm just so sick of commercial construction and I really enjoyed my time running around in a service van for my old boss.
> 
> Does the ibew frown upon this? Will I have to unionize the company if I dont plan to hire any employees?
> I was thinking about talking to someone at the hall but I dont want to raise any red flags is this is frowned upon.


If you want to remain a member, you pretty well have to certify your shop


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## Canaduh

wcord said:


> If you want to remain a member, you pretty well have to certify your shop


Thats fine I dont mind doing so. So does the union take a percentage of my wage?


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## MechanicalDVR

Canaduh said:


> Thats fine I dont mind doing so. So does the union take a percentage of my wage?


There are various fees and percentages to be paid but not like a portion of your wage per se.


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## wcord

*You*



Canaduh said:


> Thats fine I dont mind doing so. So does the union take a percentage of my wage?


You make the contributions per hour worked.
Usually the owner of a company is not a union member 
I believe some locals have set up something for the small shop where the owner can maintain his standing


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## MechanicalDVR

wcord said:


> You make the contributions per hour worked.
> Usually the owner of a company is not a union member
> I believe some locals have set up something for the small shop where the owner can maintain his standing


Yes indeed so the owner can maintain his benefits package.


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## Southeast Power

MechanicalDVR said:


> Yes indeed so the owner can maintain his benefits package.


This is correct.


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## macmikeman

I wanna join and give some of my money away just so I can get me some of those bitchin t-shirts.


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## MechanicalDVR

Like these?


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## MechanicalDVR

or?


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## telsa

You're basic premiss is amiss.

You want to work industrial // commercial Service.

You'll starve attempting Residential _anything_.

Sorry, the real world// the market does not exist to cater to your taste -- or mine.

Worse yet, your market timing.

We are either going into a SEVERE market contraction -- or President Trump is going to launch a fantastic business expansion... taking even Canada along for the ride.

Which way the trend goes is largely dictated by the US Congress.

No other party has a significant impact.

You must pray that Trudeau is ejected from Ottawa... as his policy suite is antithetical to economic success.

{ Importing Muslim perpetual dependants by the thousand... oh my ! }

{{ This reality is due to _ideology_ -- not race. Islam has no 'race.' 

Arabs are a minority among Muslims. (!) Yup. 

Chechen Muslims are white as the snow. They are often fanatically devout.

The dominant DNA of Muslims is that of Hindus. To achieve this, 200,000,000 Hindus were slaughtered by Muslims. Yes, they are _extremely_ proud of this carnage. }}

Naturally, Trudeau wants to import more of this strife... as he is a True Believer.

It's not as if a jumbo jet, now and again, is enough carnage.

Let's import all of the hatreds between Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims ... and the wholesale political corruption of those societies ... 'cause Canada does not have enough problems.
*
The Diversity Tax*

The stats are global, trans-national, horrifying.

http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/the-diversity-tax.html

The Progressives have got to STOP playing at professor Higgins.






Muslims, Blacks, Black Muslims -- they're_ people_ -- not PETS.


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## macmikeman

telsa said:


> You're basic premiss is amiss.
> 
> You want to work industrial // commercial Service.
> 
> You'll starve attempting Residential _anything_.



I f'n hate hearing that malarky all the time. I did excellent in Residential. Just cause Telsa is a failure at it, doesn't mean diddly squat to me, I've seen lots and lots of cases of Telsa's in my time . Seen em come and seen em go.


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## Speedy Petey

macmikeman said:


> I f'n hate hearing that malarky all the time. I did excellent in Residential. Just cause Telsa is a failure at it, doesn't mean diddly squat to me, I've seen lots and lots of cases of Telsa's in my time . Seen em come and seen em go.


Exactly! It's that type of attitude that is handing the residential market over the the fly-by-nighters and killing rates.


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## HackWork

There is plenty of resi work, but new construction and the majority of renovations is done so cheap by GC's and their laborers that it's not worth even trying.

I just spoke with an existing customer of mine, I do all of his service work but he was having a full renovation done and his GC would only work with his own electrician and plumber.

The customer realized that the same guys who work for the GC doing the framing and drywall also did all the plumbing and electric. They tried to sneak it in but he noticed. The electrician and plumber were just guys with licenses who pulled the permit for him for cash. They never stepped foot on the job nor did they employ the men who did the actual work.

It's an old game that you can't compete with because even after you explain this to the customer, they still don't want to pay what it takes to do it right.


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## brian john

Could not stop myself.


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## active1

Being a member of the IBEW and working for yourself doing electrical / as an electrical contractor / or for another nonunion EC violates the IBEW constitution article 25 section 1. I bet you local also has it in the bylaws and construction contract. Such as all electrical work to be dispatched by the hall. In another words, if your a member and start your own non-union electrical contractor, the E-bord could charge you with a list of violations in a trial. Resulting in substantial fines due with interest liened against your benefits or termination of your membership. That's the wrong way to go. So it's more than frowned on. 

Your organizer is the first person to talk to. What ever your thinking of ask them first. They may give you a new business packet or refer you to someone else for more answers.

Depending on your local they may not be friendly to organizing new start-ups even from members. I herd this complaint from many. The bottom line is they don't want to take the time to deal with it. For the help needed to comply, paperwork, etc. yet they would only get maybe 2% of payroll of 1 person and no more off the books for a 1 man show. I disagree as people need to start somewhere. 

The other option is to resign, or have the IO put your membership on hold. Again talk to your hall and or IO.

Despite you feelings for union membership you really need to weigh the pros and cons.

Pros. You may be able to stay a member. Depending on the number of employees and listed owner. The IBEW is not for owners. They may let you slide if under a certain number of workers, like 3. Some get around this but giving legal ownership to the wife. What could go wrong with that? You could market yourself as a union company for what it's worth.

Cons. Union compliance rules, contracts, and paperwork. Your paying the hall membership dues, benefits, and the companies portion. You need to show on paper that you paid yourself X hours minimum at X per hour in by a certain date. Not so easy with a start-up. Normally start-up cash flow is inconsistent. Yes, you could lie on the paperwork and say you didn't work. Now you need to fear and answer to the hall if called out. If you needed another JW you would need to pay at the current rate including benefits. How many other EC's in your area are union and provide residential service? If the answer is none, that's bad. As your competition has a financial advantage over you. It's hard enough starting out with 0 reputation and past clients. In addition you'll probably need to have a wage bond and benefit bond. So you're buying insurance guaranteeing you'll pay yourself and the hall. 

Where the union shines is it's ability to staff major projects with skilled labor in little time. Or provide labor with specialized training. Resi service is just the opposite.


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## MechanicalDVR

brian john said:


> Could not stop myself.


Now Brian come on man, every proper '69' always creates one *job*! :jester:


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## Krolman

MechanicalDVR said:


> Now Brian come on man, every proper '69' always creates one *job*! :jester:


Some even share the workload.


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## Wiresmith

you can be an owner and member at the same time, just can't work through the hall and be an owner at same time. in most locals after you have four electrical workers working for you then you are no longer aloud to work with your tools. read your labor agreement.


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## kg7879

If your local does not have a resi classification then I would just go for it. If they do have a classification for it but have no real presence in residential then I would just start doing it on the side and see how it goes.

This is where the IBEW is shooting themselves in the foot. They want to organize non union shops ahead of helping their own members who want to start shops. There isn't going to be one damn member who is going out there and compete on day one with other union contractors.


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## brian john

kg7879 said:


> If your local does not have a resi classification then I would just go for it. If they do have a classification for it but have no real presence in residential then I would just start doing it on the side and see how it goes.
> 
> This is where the IBEW is shooting themselves in the foot. They want to organize non union shops ahead of helping their own members who want to start shops. There isn't going to be one damn member who is going out there and compete on day one with other union contractors.


Our local use to make it difficult to start a union shop, I always felt it was the big shops driving this policy stopping members from leaving their big shop. 

But what happened was members dropped out and started open shops at some point our local became new contractor friendly, helping members go out on their own. Our local is a growing local with new shops and members even in tough market times.

A local should be happy members want to start new shops and help grow membership.


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## kg7879

brian john said:


> Our local use to make it difficult to start a union shop, I always felt it was the big shops driving this policy stopping members from leaving their big shop.
> 
> But what happened was members dropped out and started open shops at some point our local became new contractor friendly, helping members go out on their own. Our local is a growing local with new shops and members even in tough market times.
> 
> A local should be happy members want to start new shops and help grow membership.


That is cool they are doing that.


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## MechanicalDVR

Krolman said:


> Some even share the workload.


True but at the same time only one part of the equation is thought of and or labeled a job!


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## Mudkat

Starting your own business is tough. You can have hard times trying to get established. If your in the union this can get tricky, because too be able to afford the benefit packages you need to be well established with your feet planted firmly. Most locals should cut you some slack to get established but then our own worst enemy comes into play. Thats our membership, someone isnt going to like that your a member and trying to start your business without the union and want to raise a stink about it. At this point the local has to do something because the are judicially obligated to follow contracts. 
The International really needs a program to help members get their business started, a grace period or something. Just think about getting started then at the end of the month having to fork out the benefit checks, it can get your business in the hole right off the bat. I have seen this happen several times, a brother trying to do right and be a union contractor and it ends up putting them out of business in a few months, or they become a non-union contractor. We need t help and encourage these people get up and running then lets get them in the union.


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## njohnson

macmikeman said:


> I f'n hate hearing that malarky all the time. I did excellent in Residential. Just cause Telsa is a failure at it, doesn't mean diddly squat to me, I've seen lots and lots of cases of Telsa's in my time . Seen em come and seen em go.


What do you mean Tesla is a failure at it? 
Also, how did you go about making an excellent living in Residental, and how would you recommend a company work with electricians in residential installs to make the process easier?


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## macmikeman

Telsa.


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## Southeast Power

njohnson said:


> What do you mean Tesla is a failure at it?
> Also, how did you go about making an excellent living in Residental, and how would you recommend a company work with electricians in residential installs to make the process easier?


2017 was a different time.
The goal should be to get into COD residential service work.
You get paid when you walk out the door, not like us commercial guys that have to carry 6 figure receivables.


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## splatz

njohnson said:


> What do you mean Tesla is a failure at it?
> Also, how did you go about making an excellent living in Residental, and* how would you recommend a company work with electricians in residential installs to make the process easier?*


Don't race to the bottom to hire the absolute cheapest rummy you can find and mark up the most. 

Hire people that have knowledge of the electrical work you are subcontracting; i.e., hire an electrician to work with the electricians you subcontract, don't hire a barista and put them in charge. If you yourself are were a barista before you were put in charge of your company's car charger installer program, quit.


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