# HVAC or Electrician????



## MDShunk

Generally, an HVAC guy makes more money than an electrician. An HVAC guy who has his head on straight on the electrical end will never be out of work. Resist the urge to learn the fine art of tin-knocking and concentrate on the controls end. You'll be happier. The electrical work in HVAC is much more interesting than the run-of-the-mill electrical work.


----------



## RePhase277

MDShunk said:


> Generally, an HVAC guy makes more money than an electrician. An HVAC guy who has his head on straight on the electrical end will never be out of work. Resist the urge to learn the fine art of tin-knocking and concentrate on the controls end. You'll be happier. The electrical work in HVAC is much more interesting than the run-of-the-mill electrical work.


I agree. I care not for the actual duct installation and cleaning end of the HVAC trade, but the electrical and refrigeration end is quite interesting.


----------



## paul d.

what these guys said.


----------



## adamste81

InPhase277 said:


> I agree. I care not for the actual duct installation and cleaning end of the HVAC trade, but the electrical and refrigeration end is quite interesting.


 
Thank you. I am very interested in the refrigeration end of things. I understand that starting out I will most likely be doing duct work and residential repairs and stuff of that nature, but I hope to move into commercial and industrial HVAC or refrigeration. 

It seems like in many ways eletrical and hvac are tied together, while in many ways they are seperate.


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

Hell, do both. Nothing wrong with two tickets in your pocket. Makes you more useful. My uncle has 5 tickets. At least if there is a work shortage in one, you can fall back on the other. May take a little longer, but to be a dual trade is pretty handy when people go to hire you, or you start up your own company.........


----------



## John Valdes

Never met a great HVAC guy that was not a great electrician.


----------



## Magnettica

If I were you I would try to learn both trades. They say 80% of HVAC problems are electrically-related so do with that whatever you wish. I wish I knew more about installing and maintaining A/C work so I could cash in on that a little more. Good luck.


----------



## augie47

John Valdes said:


> Never met a great HVAC guy that was not a great electrician.


That may apply in your area and it may apply in industrial/ heavy commercial but in this area and in residential-light commercial my rejection rate on HVAC installations (wired by the HVAC guys) is about twice or better that of electrical contractors. The ones in this area know "how to make it run", they don't know NEC and don't appear to be able to learn, or the HVAC contractors have a high turn-over in personnel. The same half-dozen mistakes get red-tagged over and over.

Then again they may not be "great" HVAC guys either, so you may be right.


----------



## MDShunk

augie47 said:


> The same half-dozen mistakes get red-tagged over and over.


Care to list them? This might be interesting.


----------



## B4T

Learn both trades, just more tools in your pocket that will make you money *anywhere* :thumbsup:


----------



## augie47

MDShunk said:


> Care to list them? This might be interesting.


In oder of most occurrence.

Most common is failure to mark the units or attach the dataplate that shows the heat installed, MCA and Max OCP.
Improper Overcurrent protection (not meeting unit specs--oversized)
Supporting raceways, NM and SE cables per Code.
Undersizing branch circuits. (Not meeting MCA or ignoring 60° ampacity ratings on MN, SE)
250.119 (using any color for equipment grounds)
Using NM (sheathed or stripped) in outdoor raceways
Failure to bond sub-panels at units.
Installing 120v receptacles off sub-panels with no neutral provisions.

Some are obviously "pickey" but nonetheless violations and most rejected jobs are for 2 or 3 of the above.


----------



## miller_elex

Do your trade school, then jump into whichever apprenticeship you want.
Or if you want to be the best, join the navy as a machinist mate and try to get on the oldest hunk of junk possible.


----------



## breid1903

do both. i'm a licensed electrician, a master plumber and licensed for hvac. learn the controls. that's the real money in electric or hvac. now the real money is rodding drains. if you think they go nuts when they lose their ac, well wait till their drains are pluged. :yes::yes::yes:


----------



## bobelectric

I drifted into HVAC, because of the challenge of people needing it working Now.I like the control troubles with poor schematics.


----------



## drsparky

According to statistics provided by the US Department of Labor.
​ ....Electricians..................................... HVAC 
​ Have a cool name............................. Have no name
Have a cool nick name......................  Have no nick name
Are good looking..............................  Ugly
Are kind.......................................... Kick puppies
Admired by women..........................  Admire each other
Generous........................................ Poor tippers
Patriotic Americans..........................  Taliban


----------



## Magnettica

MDShunk said:


> Care to list them? This might be interesting.


1) 210.63 
2) 440.6
3) 440.14
4) 334.15

"Most", definitely not all, HVAC techs are clueless when it comes to those provisions. I cannot tell you how many times an air guy has insisted that "it's code" to mount the disconnect on the air handler or furnace and not on a rafter or wall. 

The receptacle within 25' they sort of know about but most of the time they forget about the language of 210.63. The same level doesn't mean "there's a receptacle on the deck" when the c/u is on the ground. 

The other big one is having that c/u disconnect in a readily accessible location. This DOES NOT mean behind the condensing unit but to either side so the electrician has sufficient room to work if need be. 

The need for lighting is also often forgotten, especially in an attic. Knock out 2 birds with 1 stone by installing a keyless/ pull chain with receptacle to meet these NEC requirements. 

Doing both jobs is not as easy it looks.


----------



## BCSparkyGirl

drsparky said:


> According to statistics provided by the US Department of Labor.
> 
> 
> ....Electricians..................................... HVAC
> 
> 
> Have a cool name............................. Have no name
> Have a cool nick name...................... Have no nick name
> Are good looking.............................. Ugly
> Are kind.......................................... Kick puppies
> Admired by women.......................... Admire each other
> Generous........................................ Poor tippers
> Patriotic Americans.......................... Taliban


 

:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


----------



## e57

Most of the tin-dingers around here seem to be of the former glue sniffers who figgured they had found a good source of mercury - you know the small buss type. Mash some sheet metal together & seal it... Never seen one attempt any electrical past a thermosat wire. The only electrical troubleshooting I have ever seen one of them do was swap parts until it worked.... 

They set it - I feed it. Then they set into trying to get it do what it is supposed to do.


----------



## major pain

From my understanding you have to document 4000 hours electrical expierience to get a Journeyman's Electrican's license and 8000 hours for a Masters. Needless to say If you documented the 4000 hours with HVAC expierience you are permitted to take the Electrician's test for Journey man which is a 4 hour open book test out of the latest NEC with 5 electrical equations, also allowed to have tom henry's keyword index and an uglies manual in the test room with you to use.

This was quoted from a hvac website im not sure how true it is not even sure if that falls into play in NJ. If so can i get a conformation?


----------



## Minuteman

I have my HVAC licence and my Electrical Contractors license. Most of my career I spent as an electrician. Looking back now, I think I should have focused more on HVAC. Pays better and the work is "cooler".


----------



## major pain

It's weird that electricians are saying the pay is better on the HVAC side, 

Lol when i got to the HVAC forum they complain that electricians get paid more (scratches head)


----------



## Jefro

Magnettica said:


> 1) 210.63
> 2) 440.6
> 3) 440.14
> 4) 334.15
> 
> "Most", definitely not all, HVAC techs are clueless when it comes to those provisions. I cannot tell you how many times an air guy has insisted that "it's code" to mount the disconnect on the air handler or furnace and not on a rafter or wall.
> 
> The receptacle within 25' they sort of know about but most of the time they forget about the language of 210.63. The same level doesn't mean "there's a receptacle on the deck" when the c/u is on the ground.
> 
> The other big one is having that c/u disconnect in a readily accessible location. This DOES NOT mean behind the condensing unit but to either side so the electrician has sufficient room to work if need be.
> 
> The need for lighting is also often forgotten, especially in an attic. Knock out 2 birds with 1 stone by installing a keyless/ pull chain with receptacle to meet these NEC requirements.
> 
> Doing both jobs is not as easy it looks.


I like it when they put the disco INSIDE the air handler. That's fun when you're up on the on the roof. At 2am. When its 10 degrees out.


----------



## Raiden239

*Interesting*

I hear the best field to be into is the electrical field. Hvac Techs are usually without work, or they fall into a loss of work time bracket times you will not see work for months at a time. That's what cousin in West Palm beach tells me. He's an Hvac technician, been in the field for 8 years.

If you look on job outlook the electrician field is the strongest and the need is going to get even worse as older electricians retire and the need for new electricians will always be in need. 

But my experience isn't like some people here, I'm just starting out in school this October coming. I'm working on becoming an apprentice.


----------



## sbrn33

John Valdes said:


> Never met a great HVAC guy that was not a great electrician.


Some of the worst electrical work I have ever sen was done by HVAC guys. :no:


----------



## [email protected]

MDShunk said:


> Generally, an HVAC guy makes more money than an electrician. An HVAC guy who has his head on straight on the electrical end will never be out of work. Resist the urge to learn the fine art of tin-knocking and concentrate on the controls end. You'll be happier. The electrical work in HVAC is much more interesting than the run-of-the-mill electrical work.


Agree that the controls are where you can distinguish yourself. I was a good electrician's assistant in college, and had learned much from my brother who was a EE, a master electrician, and probably the best refer man anyone had ever met. He loved building elaborate controls (and so do I). When I had my first truck and one man crew i had a factory AC to start up in the summer and it was really shut down. I called my brother and said, 'Follow the controls with the VTVM, from the panel to the compressor, and a se soon as you rule out the electrical, it is the electrical." Every single starter, thermostat, solenoid, pressure regulator had at least one wire pulled. I got it to work. My boss was amazed. It was a test. Always loved controls. For two years it was my electrical skills that made the difference. HVAC knowledge was easy (at that time in the days of freon and the wild wild west). Electrical knowledge made it easy to work the licensed electricians on new installs as well. 

Good choice.


----------



## [email protected]

MDShunk said:


> Generally, an HVAC guy makes more money than an electrician. An HVAC guy who has his head on straight on the electrical end will never be out of work. Resist the urge to learn the fine art of tin-knocking and concentrate on the controls end. You'll be happier. The electrical work in HVAC is much more interesting than the run-of-the-mill electrical work.


Agree that the controls are where you can distinguish yourself. I was a good electrician's assistant in college, and had learned much from my brother who was a EE, a master electrician, and probably the best refer man anyone had ever met. He loved building elaborate controls (and so do I). When I had my first truck and one man crew i had a factory AC to start up in the summer and it was really shut down. I called my brother and said, 'Follow the controls with the VTVM, from the panel to the compressor, and a se soon as you rule out the electrical, it is the electrical." Every single starter, thermostat, solenoid, pressure regulator had at least one wire pulled. I got it to work. My boss was amazed. It was a test. Always loved controls. For two years it was my electrical skills that made the difference. HVAC knowledge was easy (at that time in the days of freon and the wild wild west). Electrical knowledge made it easy to work the licensed electricians on new installs as well. 

Good choice.


----------



## NC Plc

This thread keeps coming up. My boss says he wishes, years ago, he had went into HVAC with his electrical license.


----------



## RIVETER

InPhase277 said:


> I agree. I care not for the actual duct installation and cleaning end of the HVAC trade, but the electrical and refrigeration end is quite interesting.


CREATURE COMFORTS are very well rewarded. There is something to be said for having someone really being thankful for having been given a good job for the right price. You are paid...and you feel appreciated.


----------



## Southeast Power

I have looked at two other trades close to mine, elevator work and HVAC. No doubt that I could have chosen either one or could change at any time.
Problem is this. Everything they work on, with some rare exceptions, is heavy and filthy dirty. I see elevator work as dangerous, a bit more specialized and a smaller market to work in.
Same with HVAC. Their equipment is heavy and greasy always stuffed into too small of a space and half of it installed so bad you can't service it. 
Like elevator equipment, they locate their stuff in places thAt are not made for people to occupy.


----------



## RIVETER

jrannis said:


> I have looked at two other trades close to mine, elevator work and HVAC. No doubt that I could have chosen either one or could change at any time.
> Problem is this. Everything they work on, with some rare exceptions, is heavy and filthy dirty. I see elevator work as dangerous, a bit more specialized and a smaller market to work in.
> Same with HVAC. Their equipment is heavy and greasy always stuffed into too small of a space and half of it installed so bad you can't service it.
> Like elevator equipment, they locate their stuff in places thAt are not made for people to occupy.


I have worked on hundreds of ACs and have never come across one I could not manage to get to and to fix.


----------



## MTW

I'm in the "do both" camp.


----------



## RIVETER

MTW said:


> I'm in the "do both" camp.


AND, it is very do-able.:thumbsup:


----------



## mgraw

I started with HVAC and then went into electrical then my boss at the time became a GC. I would do both HVAC and electrical but I would get into refrigeration and/or controls. Even the newer high end residential A/C units are going to data controls verses simple open/closed contact type. DC inverters are common. Supermarket refrigeration is computer controlled. No telling what the future holds.


----------



## wendon

I'm in the used-to-do-both camp. The electrical end got too busy for it. Much less after hours stuff with electrical.


----------



## EJPHI

I vote for HVAC first and electrician second. Extreme climates need heating and cooling repairs NOW. The supply houses won't sell HVAC material to anyone and you can't get the stuff at the hardware store. There is a lot more skill required to recharge a central AC system than is needed to fix or add an outlet. Of the two trades, I know more people who make a good living doing HVAC than pure electrical.

For residential customers think about the barriers to entry. In other words, how hard is it for any Joe to repair electrical systems vs HVAC.

The counter point is that HVAC systems once installed and working are very reliable and there is little need for modification. With electrical, customers always want add outlets and redo the kitchen lighting. The barriers to doing electrical work are much lower though.

Both skills are good to have, but if you live in an extreme climate (FL/MN), you will make a better living providing the valuable, high barrier to entry climate control service.

EJPHI


----------



## ChrisLeland

Most HVAC guys need to be great electricians as well, especially up in the competitive HVAC Calgary market.


----------



## degupita

I was going to get into HVAC, and sought it for awhile. There was the period that I was doing general maintenance, so dabbled into all the trades.


The list was: In order of what I liked doing the most.
Electrical
Pool and spa work
HVAC
Painting
Concrete work.
Plumbing.

So after awhile I figured I should focus on what I like the most.

I got one of those online college degrees in HVAC. But they are pretty useless in several ways.

Certification for HVAC is easier, than getting licensed for electrical.
You just have to do the test.

I found a lot of HVAC, don't bother getting a license once they get certified, because, depending on the class of certification, they can work on refrigerant, and they can work on the electrical. 
I talked to one that said they had to install the fused unit power switches, if they were not licensed electricians.









I have gotten hired for electrical companies, partly because I did have experience with HVAC.
But I haven't done the refrigerant, of course. Everywhere I have seen, you are not allowed to, and they won't sell you it, unless you are certified.


----------



## cdnelectrician

I started in HVAC working with heat pumps and large forced water systems. It got me interested in controls and eventually into the electrical world. Luckily I've spent most of that time working on controls, if you have the opportunity to get both do it! I wish I could! It's interesting stuff.


----------

