# 10 commandments for residential technicians



## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Ms. Y here.
Lately we have been plagued by experienced journeymen electricians making too many really bonehead mistakes that you might expect from an apprentice. We have also had way too many call backs lately. Mr. Y is fed up and about ready to clean house. I think, we need to make sure every single person we send into the field has a _crystal clear_ understanding of our expectations and requirements... in writing and we should work to help our current guys learn to avoid mistakes before taking more drastic action.

I am working on checklists to help clearly outline our expectations to anyone who works for us. 

The first one is our Commandments for making a residential service calls.
I am also working on more technical ones... to follow in a different post.
Please add to this list.

*Commandments for residential service calls:*




*Thou Shall NOT:*

Be sloppy or dirty in appearance for a service call. Always carry an extra clean uniform shirt
Wear any hat other than a baseball cap facing frontwards... no sideways or backwards brims!
Track mud or dirt into thy customers home
Place any tools clean or otherwise on thy customers furniture or carpets (we send them with yoga mats to put tools etc on)
Neglect to explain to the customer the exact nature of the problem and what is required to repair said problem
Neglect to explore for the actual cause of the problem, not just fix the immediate issue.
Neglect your responsibility to explain the cost of said repairs _before_ beginning to work
Neglect to obtain customers APPROVAL of charges to repair before beginning work
Eat, chew gum, smoke or drink anywhere near the customers residence
Talk on cell phone unless it is regarding a work related matter
Use profane language, tell off color jokes, ask or share personal information with the customer
Interrupt the customer or your boss while he is speaking to the customer
Make negative comments to the customer about any aspect of your employer
Forget to ask the customer if there are any other issues they would like you to address
Forget to make suggestions if there is additional work that needs to be done (only if it is actually needed)
Make up answers to questions you don't know, say you will find out and get back to them
Neglect to call for help if you can't solve a problem
Leave any trace that you were there working. That means check each area you worked and pick up all trash, wirenuts, screws, scraps of wire, pieces of insulation etc...
Leave smudges or dirt behind in any work area, thou shall use the provided vacuum cleaner, windex and paper towels to remove all traces of our mess
Forget to verify that the issue you were sent to repair is acutally repaired. Double check that customer is satisfied with the repair
Sell services that are not actually needed
Forget to charge for ALL services rendered.
Forget to get customers signature agreeing that services they paid for were delivered
Neglect to get paid before departing the service call, unless you are *positive* that other arrangments were previously made
Forget to thank the customer for their business and ask them if they are willing to fill out a customer satisfaction survey
Smile and be polite to every customer no matter what.
What would you add to this?


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## Rick82 (Jun 21, 2011)

Wear your booties!


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

so...by 10 commandments, you actually mean 26 commandments? :laughing:

I think if you want your guys to do more than give this a cursory glance and forget about it, you probably do need to shorten it to ten or so.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

And tuck in your shirt, even if you're down to your T shirt! 
Pull up your pants!


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## RedLiz75 (Jun 22, 2011)

Maybe you need to show them that list in the interview.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

MarkyMark said:


> so...by 10 commandments, you actually mean 26 commandments? :laughing:
> 
> I think if you want your guys to do more than give this a cursory glance and forget about it, you probably do need to shorten it to ten or so.


Once we get them all, we'll distill it to the most important ones. We want to document all of our expectations, cause no matter what, things seem to go in one ear and out the other.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I have problems with female authority figures and rules.


Maybe the men you hire do also.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

RedLiz75 said:


> Sweetie, I would never work for an outfit like yours. I'm an electrician, not a maid, or a child.



So does it hurt when you pull your junk back to hide it?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Those who EXPECT nothing shall not be disappointed.


That's a mighty big list, I prefer to keep it simple

A fake plastic smiley face when I really would like to tell a customer where they can and what they can do with themselves

Keep it productive with little small talk

ACT like a clean cut needle sharp good mannered being.

Those 26 rules would cause someone like me to rebel.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

RedLiz75 said:


> I will not be micromanaged! No wonder they can't keep good help. It is not the help, it is the employer!


I'm a non conformist , like many of us in this trade. That list reminds me of the Marines Corp code of conduct. If they pay generously for seasoned experienced mechanics those problems would be at a minimum.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

All the guys you hire should know all that already.

If they don't you should be able to pick that up during their interview.

After 1 day on the job you should be able to pick up on the fact that you hired a slacker and fire him on the spot why waste any more time.

Are an Electrical Contractor or a baby sitting service.:blink:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

RedLiz75 said:


> They just want something for nothing. The owner should keep his wife out of things and tell her to STFU! A witch like that can ruin a business. I don't know how a man can work like that.


Electrical Boot camp, I could picture her with the the short haircut and mega phone.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont have a problem with the list...It makes sense to me...To many guys work like slobs and treat peoples homes like its their home...That can make or break you if most of your business is resi... I make my living primarily on refferals so it makes sense..


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

She forgot about clothes and having pants that fit properly and are not hung below the ass crack. Goes side by side with sideways baseball hats.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

captkirk said:


> I dont have a problem with the list...It makes sense to me...To many guys work like slobs and treat peoples homes like its their home...That can make or break you if most of your business is resi... I make my living primarily on refferals so it makes sense..


But it sounds as if they are sending helpers and JMs out to perform mechanical duties. A seven yr or better mechanic knows all this , kids have not learned this yet.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Common sense is not something that some people are born with.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

captkirk said:


> I dont have a problem with the list...It makes sense to me...To many guys work like slobs and treat peoples homes like its their home...That can make or break you if most of your business is resi... I make my living primarily on refferals so it makes sense..


I don't really have much of a problem with the list itself either, just the delivery. Instead, tell us about the wonderful programs she puts into place that motivate the employee's to become extraordinary. Tell us about how she has systems that make the employee's never ever want to leave that place. I know there are plenty of successful service companies that have exactly that and some rules to boot......


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

If all your guys are butching all of that, it sounds like there is a failure of management.

Either the guys aren't being properly supported and equipped or else they're incapable of handling the responsibilities you're giving them. Lists won't solve either of those problems.

-John


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I don't really have much of a problem with the list itself either, just the delivery. Instead, tell us about the wonderful programs she puts into place that motivate the employee's to become extraordinary. Tell us about how she has systems that make the employee's never ever want to leave that place. I know there are plenty of successful service companies that have exactly that and some rules to boot......


Thats because its a woman....Most woman seem to have a problem when it comes to managing men...Ive seen it hundereds of times in the restaurant busi and contracting.... Their just wired differently, and many times they try to overcompensate because they are woman and they feel that they need to get loud or act tough. If I had a guy that came to work dressed like a hobo I would take him asided and tell him he needs to clean it up if he wants to stay here. If it continues I will then remind him and if he still dresses like an idiot then I would give him his walking papers , simple as that.. 
Woman like to handle things like they are talking to childeren. But then again some guys are just that...childeren....


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

RedLiz75 said:


> That is true, as a woman, I know. I'd kick her in the snatch. Her husband is weak and she is filling the void. If they hired good help and paid them enough.. they would not have problems or need ******** lists.


:tt2: I 'm in love. :laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

RedLiz75 said:


> Sweetie,
> You can find the answer to your question at electricians job talk dot com!


My wife always warns new help on what to expect around me in the course of the day, some are smart and never return after their first day.:laughing:


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Sounds like a mr.electric or earn more by upselling company.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Wow, I wasn't expecting some of those nasty comments. 
First of all _I_ do not manage the electricans in any way shape or form. Nor have we ever given anyone a list like that. 

We are a _residential_ service company. We send electricians into people homes to fix problems. Many of the homes are nice, many of our customers are little old ladies.

I wrote that list toungue in cheeck based *100%* on the **** we see over and over again from licensed journeymen electricians with a minimum of 6 years of experience. 

If the electricians we send act like pigs like some of you here, we'd be out of business. 
We hire only experienced journeymen, you are absolutely correct, they _*should*_ know this stuff. That's what one would think. We've been in business for 25 years. It takes hiring and firing 10+ electricians before we find ONE worth keeping. Do electricians suck so much? I have worked in several industries and have never seen anything like this.

Based on the going rate in our area, we pay better than our competetion. 
During the initial interview and during training-this stuff is discussed. That should be enough, but it's not. We give generous bonuses and treat our employees with respect. We are not running a babysitting service or a fast food restaruant nor do we want to. 

We are sending electricians into peoples homes. It is it really micromanaging to expect them to represent the company in a positive way? 

The reason I started this post is because all the crap on that list is **** people who should have better sense have done in peoples houses. And sadly we see it over and over and over again. 

If you are a little old lady, do you want some service guy with his pants hanging down his butt and his hat on backwards showing up at your door? They don't look like that when we hire them or when they show up in the morning, but by the end of the day that's what often comes back to the shop....

I am simply searching for ways to let people we hire know what we expect on service calls. Neither of us are micromanagers, not me in the office or my husband in the field. Maybe those of you who are so upset by this post would act like that in peoples homes. Common sense seems to be in short supply. That list clearly must have hit a little too close to home for _some_ of you. 

Everyone here keeps talking about properly training employees so they know what is expected. We are a small informal operation with no training. We keep hiring experienced guys who should know better but obviously don't. (as witnessed by some of the nasty comments) I am looking for ways to lay out what we expect in the hopes that we won't have to continuously weed through so many slackers to find a few decent employeess who can go into peoples homes AND be decent electricians. 

We need 4 more guys and the idea of hiring and firing 40+ more to find four good ones is not appealing. Better to either weed them out up front or give some guidelines to others who have potential but might not know any better.

There are plenty of companies that send uniformed technicians into peoples homes. Most electricians seem to come from a construction background (that's clearly the case based on some of the rude, nasty comments here) Behavior that is acceptable on a construction site doesn't cut it in a residential service situation.

Yeah, it seems like obvious common sense. That's what we think too. So then why is it so difficult to find electricians who have the basic common sense to do simple things like... bring back a check or make sure the problem is actually fixed before leaving or not put a drink down on some little old ladies antique furniture. When a guy shows up with his hat on backwards from our company that reflects badly on the company, doesn't matter if he is a great electrician. There are good and bad electricians and there are slobs and guys who make a positive impression. Finding both in an electrician seems to be incredibly difficult. 

Make all the insulting comments you want...this is not a problem unique to our company. We hear this from every residential EC we speak to. Finding decent electricians who know how to behave in a home seems to be ridiculously challenging. Even the commercial companies have to weed out an awful lot of slackers to find decent electricians. It becomes 10x more difficult to then find presentable ones too.

Sadly the ratio of productive or civil comments to rude ones reinforces that opinion.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

RedLiz75 said:


> That is true, as a woman, I know. I'd kick her in the snatch. Her husband is weak and she is filling the void. If they hired good help and paid them enough.. they would not have problems or need ******** lists.


 
Spoken like a lady....


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I don't really have much of a problem with the list itself either, just the delivery. Instead, tell us about the wonderful programs she puts into place that motivate the employee's to become extraordinary. Tell us about how she has systems that make the employee's never ever want to leave that place. I know there are plenty of successful service companies that have exactly that and some rules to boot......


This is what we are trying to learn how to do. I am here to learn from people with experience, not to insult anyone or to be insulted.

The delivery was meant as a joke, we don't have a list. We are looking for ways to do things better, hire smarter and reduce turnover. I am trying to write an employee manual but this is not my area of expertise.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

It's a sore spot with me when I hear supervisors/managers/owners complain about the myriad problems in their outfit, because usually when there are that many problems the boss is the biggest one.

So, my apologies if I spoke bluntly, I didn't realize you were joking.

-John


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

yrman said:


> This is what we are trying to learn how to do. I am here to learn from people with experience, not to insult anyone or to be insulted.
> 
> The delivery was meant as a joke, we don't have a list. We are for ways to do things better, hire smarter and reduce turnover. I am trying to write an employee manual but this is not my area of expertise.


Well see now your talking. I didn't catch on to the "joke" part. I thought your list was a for real list to hand out. When I saw the list I thought holy smokes, I sure don't want to work for an outfit that thinks so little of the people in its employ. I used to have a number of employee's. They were my best asset. They were more important than the money in the company account. I always tried to treat each one just like I wanted to be treated. I bought ice cream bars..... And when there were screw ups we talked about that. And did our best to create a solution to where there wouldn't be the same mistakes happen again. And if that didn't work, then I got some new guys instead. You undeniably came across like only your husband was born with enough common sense to navigate his way thru a service call. I'm sure that even in Southern California there must be at least 5 guys with equal good sense. Ok, maybe 4, but you get the idea. Bring everybody into a personal stake in the company and you get stellar results. How about structuring your company as an employee owned company? Work hard, stay at least ten years, turn a profit for the company at all times, and partake in the ownership profits. A tried and proven success formula. By the way, you can purchase or download employee manuals from the web by the truckload. Google is your friend.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

yrman said:


> Wow, I wasn't expecting some of those nasty comments.
> First of all _I_ do not manage the electricans in any way shape or form. Nor have we ever given anyone a list like that.
> 
> We are a _residential_ service company. We send electricians into people homes to fix problems. Many of the homes are nice, many of our customers are little old ladies.
> ...



With all do respect you are trying to grow your company without the proper supervisory skills in place.

The last thing you should be doing is hiring more Electricians if the ones you have are ignoring the professional code of conduct they should have as a licensed professional.

There is no reason for your men to be wearing a basball hat unless they are bald otherwise they should be left at home.

When you interview someone they should have clean cut look with a clean Shaved face there is no need for beards go tee's or any other bizarre looking crap on their face like ear rings any where.

You should have a uniform service properly fitted pants will prevent the loser look.

If your men can not show up clean cut every day then they should not be doing this type of work in the first place.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't need any commandments to be a resi guy. 

You're an idiot if you track mud into peoples houses and if you are that much of a hick, you shouldn't be allowed in peoples houses and actually, you shouldn't allow yourself into peoples houses, that is, if you have a brain at all.

People don't give a crap how you wear your hat or if you wear one at all.

A lot of customers are too busy worrying about the appearance of their home to even give a second look at what their service call guy even looks like.

Yeah, take showers everyday. You should do that as a person anyway.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

some guys just dont get it...its sad and embarrasing...Some times when I get really busy I ask my good friend to help me out and I get really embarrased then he shows up with cut off BDU's and black sneakers and a Black Lable Society Tee shirt.....WTF...... I give him a company shirt (like the 8th one) and tell him I would prefer he wear boots and decent pants. ANd he looks at me like a hurt puppy dog...."are you serious"? LOL what can I do... Im really good friends with him but he is a ******* at heart...Now I just make sure to use him for non stuffy clients....and construction type stuff...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

captkirk said:


> some guys just dont get it...its sad and embarrasing...Some times when I get really busy I ask my good friend to help me out and I get really embarrased then he shows up with cut off BDU's and black sneakers and a Black Lable Society Tee shirt.....WTF...... I give him a company shirt (like the 8th one) and tell him I would prefer he wear boots and decent pants. ANd he looks at me like a hurt puppy dog...."are you serious"? LOL what can I do... Im really good friends with him but he is a ******* at heart...Now I just make sure to use him for non stuffy clients....and construction type stuff...


I had one like that but the last time we worked together he fliped out on me without warning so i said pack up your tools took him to the bank paid him and said good luck he still calls looking for work..:blink::blink:.


No way ever again..:no:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

You guys on the east coast wear suits and stuff like that huh?

Gnarly


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> You guys on the east coast wear suits and stuff like that huh?
> 
> Gnarly


No we go to work dressed like this...:laughing::laughing:


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Well see now your talking. I didn't catch on to the "joke" part. I thought your list was a for real list to hand out. When I saw the list I thought holy smokes, I sure don't want to work for an outfit that thinks so little of the people in its employ. I used to have a number of employee's. They were my best asset. They were more important than the money in the company account. I always tried to treat each one just like I wanted to be treated. I bought ice cream bars..... And when there were screw ups we talked about that. And did our best to create a solution to where there wouldn't be the same mistakes happen again. And if that didn't work, then I got some new guys instead. You undeniably came across like only your husband was born with enough common sense to navigate his way thru a service call. I'm sure that even in Southern California there must be at least 5 guys with equal good sense. Ok, maybe 4, but you get the idea. Bring everybody into a personal stake in the company and you get stellar results. How about structuring your company as an employee owned company? Work hard, stay at least ten years, turn a profit for the company at all times, and partake in the ownership profits. A tried and proven success formula. By the way, you can purchase or download employee manuals from the web by the truckload. Google is your friend.


Thanks for your excellent comments. I know my husband isn't the only good electrician in so cal and I didn't mean it to sound like that.

I am working on customizing a standard manual I agree with everything you say. I also agree 100% that management always has a role in all company problems. I have worked for large world wide companies, start ups and have started a couple of my own. I only came on board here less than 2 years ago. It is a totally new industry for me. My husband is an electrician, not a manager and not an office guy. He has a great rep. With other electricians, the guys respect him and the customers love him (especially the little old ladies) but employee turnover seems to be an on going struggle. Slackers and hacks do not last around here. And yes of course we've had some great guys. The good ones who have left have been for good reasons. A couple went and started their own operations or moved away. We are on good terms and send them business. One guy we really liked just didn't like this kind of work and he got a great opportunity to run a big commercial crew. 
For a long time a couple of guys was all we needed so turnover wasn't that big of a deal. That is changing now. We'd hand over a piece of the company in a heartbeat to the right person, but finding that has been a challenge, which I'm sure is partially our fault. We may have too high expectations, but believe me if we find someone who can carry the ball we'll let them. There have been several that seemed promising at first but didn't work out for one reason or another. Sooner or later we'll find him, or someone trainable for the role. We know one guy who'd be perfect if he'll make the jump. Also one of our new guys has both skill and a great attitude so we are real hopeful about him. 

Here is where we need to figure a better way to do things... We've got a couple of guys we like pretty well. Given them good raises and decent bonuses. They are competent electricians, respectable not real polished but polite. They'll probably stick around. But ....even though we've talked about all the stuff that inspired this thread we keep seeing the same issues over and over again. Lately there have been A LOT of minor and not so minor issues. I think we need to do a better job as managers and find ways to work with what we've got. Some of the issues, especially with the most senior guy have been Super BONEHEAD things that he should know better. In a way some of them seem like f...u's. Stuff he KNOWS will piss off my husband. My husband is within an inch of caning him. I think it's time for us to learn and practice management skills like better training and finding solutions to try to keep 1/2 way decent guys and motivate them to do better. If you only need a couple of employees high turnover isn't so horrible, but now we are growing and need to transition to different ways of doing things. My electrician husband is a good leader on the jobsite but leading and managing can be very different. We need to have realistic expectations and make sure everyone understands and is on board. The skills we need now are new to both of us. We are struggling to manage the workload and move to the next level of infrastructure without reinventing the wheel. We are slammed with work, and dumb mistakes and go backs are eating us up and causing a lot of stress. And can be damaging our reputation. We don't have time to have meetings and discussions, yet that is what we need to do.

How do successful companies make the jump from small informal operations to larger organized, well run companies? Some people have the innate ability to do this, some like us struggle and some don't make it. 
Thanks.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

yrman said:


> T
> How do successful companies make the jump from small informal operations to larger organized, well run companies?
> Thanks.


That doesn't really happen very often. If it does, it takes years. Think about a hiring a shop foreman... someone who everyone doesn't hate. 
If you get a good one he'll hate you and your husband with a passion and probably like your employees a little bit but all the sparky's will talk crap about him, you, and your husband. 

That's someone who'll make you skrilla.


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## The Lightman (Jan 9, 2010)

Google out of the bucket. You need an S.O.P


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Technicians work for cable companies or your local car dealer..

_Electricians_ are the skilled craftsmen you want working on your electrical system..

We have been fine for all these years wearing that title.. lets not dumb it down by playing a stupid word game..

Are you a MASTER ELECTRICIAN or a MASTER TECHNICIAN.. :thumbsup:


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## sxpert (Jun 17, 2011)

last one fails, it reads :

Thou Shall NOT... Smile and be polite to every customer no matter what.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> With all do respect you are trying to grow your company without the proper supervisory skills in place.
> 
> The last thing you should be doing is hiring more Electricians if the ones you have are ignoring the professional code of conduct they should have as a licensed professional.
> 
> ...


Harry thanks,
I gotta tell you, your comment cracked me up. Out here arms sleeved with tatoos and big holes in ears seem to be very common. Sadly we've met some really fantastic electricians who we can't hire because the little old ladies would have a stroke if they came to the door. 
We're ok with clean baseball caps facing forward, that is common with service companies out here. We've explored the uniform pants but no one wants to wear them so we are ok with CLEAN jeans or kahkis. We require and supply button down shirts for service calls and tshirts for dirty work. Most are ok with that, but they don't like to tuck them in. I'm not their mother but we really would like to require they tuck them in. My husband asks them too all the time, but they don't like to, I guess it's not cool. You've gotta pick your battles and good work is the highest priority.

We have to hire more guys whether we want to or not because we have a lot of work right now. And very shortly it will be much more than we can handle. We just fired one of our guys because he was a terrible electrician (that was a shame because he was the most clean cut and presentable and a nice guy- but he was so terrible there was no way to make it work) and one is on thin ice for a bunch of reasons . Number 3 is pretty new but he is working out fine and we are giving him a raise next week.

#2 is inspired my post. He's a good electrician, a nice guy, we like him very much. Hes been with us over 6 months, had several raises and a number of good ($400) bonuses. So I don't think we treat him badly. He knows what we expect and he and my husband have had a couple of talks about some issues and how to prevent them from occuring again. We want to keep him so DH cuts him a lot more slack than he would for someone else. Yet he keeps doing stuff that he absolutely knows is not acceptable. Sloppy, crooked work, using the wrong materials, some is sheer laziness and some we just can't imagine why. Maybe he wants to be fired?

As for the appearance issue, our ads state that we drug test and require a clean driving record. We also specify neat and clean cut. That dramatically cuts down the number of resumes we get.
Neat beards or goatees are ok with us, we're not ridculous about it. We'll settle for neat and polite. We actually hired one guy with highly visible tatoos because he was super well spoken and neat and had great references. He was a good electrician too. We thought people would get over it once they spoke to him, but the old ladies were scared and wouldn't open their doors. Maybe it was the bleeding chopped off geisha head on his neck  (I swear I didn't spot that!)Plus he insisted on wearing his hat sideways no matter how many times he was corrected... so he went bye bye pretty fast...

As for the proper supervisory skills.... we trying, we really are trying.
Thanks.:blink:


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

sxpert said:


> last one fails, it reads :
> 
> Thou Shall NOT... Smile and be polite to every customer no matter what.


oops thanks for spotting... but I guess the list goes in the shredder anyway now.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

yrman said:


> .


Remember an untucked shirt is like walking around in an unmade Bed.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Your website, while good, spends a lot of effort selling Jim, and not so much selling the company. Sell the company more, and there may be less objections to who, exactly, rings the doorbell. That's not to say that you should cut your standards on who works for you, but you may be unknowingly setting yourself up for failure by the way you sell. 

I agree with Lightman's comment on getting out of the bucket also. As much as Paul Burns and I have butted heads in the past, his "get out of the bucket" program is a must read for any business person in your situation.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Remember an untucked shirt is like walking around in an unmade Bed.


True. I feel the same way myself when I dress every day, but I must say that a shorter shirt (like a polo) normally doesn't look sloppy untucked. Heck, I forgot to put a belt on the other day for some reason, and I felt sorta "naked" all day. Plus, having to pull my pants up all the time was a royal pain. I don't know how people can stand having them sag all day. 

Uniform companies have jeans too. Just something to think about if they guys object to "uniform pants". If the whole uniform comes from a laundry company, at least they'll be well-fitting, clean, and fresh every day.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

B4T said:


> Technicians work for cable companies or your local car dealer..
> 
> _Electricians_ are the skilled craftsmen you want working on your electrical system..
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. I HATE the term technician.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> True. I feel the same way myself when I dress every day, but I must say that a shorter shirt (like a polo) normally doesn't look sloppy untucked. Heck, I forgot to put a belt on the other day for some reason, and I felt sorta "naked" all day. Plus, having to pull my pants up all the time was a royal pain. I don't know how people can stand having them sag all day.
> 
> Uniform companies have jeans too. Just something to think about if they guys object to "uniform pants". If the whole uniform comes from a laundry company, at least they'll be well-fitting, clean, and fresh every day.



Without question i'm a levi's jeens guy with the Button collard shirts .

And when it is hot as hell out then the polo shirt with the name,,

But it"s got to be tucked in...:laughing:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

SparkYZ said:


> I agree with you completely. I HATE the term technician.


The word technician never really bothered me. I sorta always thought of a technician as someone with a more niche electrical skill and more specialized knowledge in some area. What bothers me most is the nickname every electrician on every jobsite is called. "Hey, Sparky"! I never really understood why the Mr.Sparky franchise embraced it.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Without question i'm a levi's jeens guy with the Button collard shirts .
> 
> And when it is hot as hell out then the polo shirt with the name,,
> 
> But it"s got to be tucked in...:laughing:


Shorts on the jobsite sorta bugs me, but some guys like that in the summer, and that's fine. I can't work in shorts. At home, fine, but at work I can't do it. Guys who wear shorts all the time have kneecaps that look like they've got inch thick callouses built up on them.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Shorts on the jobsite sorta bugs me, but some guys like that in the summer, and that's fine. I can't work in shorts. At home, fine, but at work I can't do it. Guys who wear shorts all the time have kneecaps that look like they've got inch thick callouses built up on them.



I cant work in shorts either my knees kill as it is with the heavy jeens on and that is another reason not to wear the uniform pants their just too thin..


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I hate the term " Uniform". 


Delivery boys wear uniforms. I'm an electrician. If there is any doubt about who is at your door, then my tool bags I'm wearing with the electricians tools might be a clue. If you allow your boss to put a uniform on you your not an electrician, your a stinkin technician. By the way, I'm a very clean cut dapper gentleman with a receeding hairline but a nice smile and all my teeth. No beard, no stash, no tattoos, no funny jewlery in my eyebrows. Time has added a wrinkle or two. I don't smoke, (or drink or use any controlled substance for that matter) and speak english properly. I clean up when I'm done. Matter of fact I do everything on that stinking list properly. But screw the uniforms. Screw that . Thats why I fly my own ship.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> I hate the term " Uniform".
> Thats why I fly my own ship.
> 
> .


The starship Enterprise...:laughing::laughing:

macmikeman Electric..


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> You guys on the east coast wear suits and stuff like that huh?
> 
> Gnarly







:thumbsup:: ....


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> The starship Enterprise...:laughing::laughing:
> 
> macmikeman Electric..



Close Harry, damn close.


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I've got a goatee, 0 gauge earrings, and I wear a baseball cap to work. Sometimes it's even on backwards. 

My company provides plain gray t-shirts with our logo on the front and back. I never tuck them in.

I'm also my shop's main service call guy. Week to week I'm working anywhere from a waste water plant to a department store to a fish processing facility to some little old lady's house. Sometimes even in the same day! (I do haul around a spare change of clothes just in case I reek like fish or sewage)

I've also got four tattoos. Two of them are visible. If I could go back in time I wouldn't have gotten them, but it's too late for that.

The moral of the story is, I have not once EVER had a customer take issue with my appearance. Not the little old ladies, not the huffy businessmen or their prim and proper wives, not the religious nutcases, not even the asshole slum lords. The reason why is because when I go to work, I put on a professional attitude. When I show up at someone's house, or business, or processing facility, I get out of my van with a cheerful expression, grab my tools, and go greet the customer with a spring in my step and a smile on my face. It's a total sham, of course, because all I want to do is get their s**t fixed and leave, but I always leave a good impression. The amount of notes I get from our receptionist regarding customers who have called to praise my efforts on their job testifies to that.

Dress for comfort at work. If you need a fancy uniform to win customers over, then you need to work on your personality.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Close Harry, damn close.


I might guess that in Hawaii, that's pretty much normal and acceptable attire for no matter what you do. There needs to be some latitude to allow for varous geographical social norms. Put a Mr. Electric uniformed electrician in home in Dubai, for instance, and he'd look pretty foolish.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

erics37 said:


> Dress for comfort at work. If you need a fancy uniform to win customers over, then you need to work on your personality.


Probably true, but many guys need every advantage they can get. Not everyone has a good personality. You can't wear a good personality, but you can wear decent clothes to partially compensate. 

The famous sales trainer Zig Ziglar often has said, "All I want is an unfair advantage". Every little thing you do can help to tip that imaginary scale in your favor. If what you're doing is working out for you... fantastic. Some people need the extra advantages.


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## sxpert (Jun 17, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Put a Mr. Electric uniformed electrician in home in Dubai, for instance, and he'd look pretty foolish.


Uniform there consists of a long white robe, a head scarf and a couple black headring ropes to hold the scarf, no matter what you do ;-)


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

erics37 said:


> I've got a goatee, 0 gauge earrings, .



I hope they are Copper...:laughing:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> I hope they are Copper...:laughing:


So some crackhead can cut off his earlobes and take them to recycle?:jester:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> So some crackhead can cut off his earlobes and take them to recycle?:jester:


Ya maybe that is not a good idea after all..:laughing:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> I hope they are Copper...:laughing:


Actually they're just surgical steel tubes, flared on each end. They're about as tasteful as an earring can get considering you can slide a pencil through them.










Copper is an interesting idea though. Hmmm....


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> So some crackhead can cut off his earlobes and take them to recycle?:jester:


I would cut off his head and remove his soul!

I'm like Warren from There's Something About Mary. Don't mess with my ears or I'll go apes**t.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Actually they're just surgical steel tubes, flared on each end. They're about as tasteful as an earring can get considering you can slide a pencil through them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At least you will always have a pencil...


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> At least you will always have a pencil...


:laughing: It's funny; sometimes I do work at a couple of the local Head Start schools.... one time, the kids were having free time or snack time or something, and I stuck a pencil through each of my ears and walked into the classroom. They got a kick out of it, now every time I go back the kids call me the Ear Pencil Man :jester:

Oh yeah, and the facility supervisor lady is HOT! And flirty too. It's awesome.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

erics37 said:


> :laughing: It's funny; sometimes I do work at a couple of the local Head Start schools.... one time, the kids were having free time or snack time or something, and I stuck a pencil through each of my ears and walked into the classroom. They got a kick out of it, now every time I go back the kids call me the Ear Pencil Man :jester:
> .


:laughing::laughing:





> Oh yeah, and the facility supervisor lady is HOT! And flirty too. It's awesome


Nice!!!:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Nice!!!:thumbup::thumbup:


Hmm. I think I'll think about her dragging me into the electrical closet tonight when I go to sleep :shifty:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

:laughing::laughing:


erics37 said:


> Hmm. I think I'll think about her dragging me into the electrical closet tonight when I go to sleep :shifty:


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Your website, while good, spends a lot of effort selling Jim, and not so much selling the company. Sell the company more, and there may be less objections to who, exactly, rings the doorbell. That's not to say that you should cut your standards on who works for you, but you may be unknowingly setting yourself up for failure by the way you sell.
> 
> I agree with Lightman's comment on getting out of the bucket also. As much as Paul Burns and I have butted heads in the past, his "get out of the bucket" program is a must read for any business person in your situation.


I am ordering "get out of the bucket" tomorrow. Thanks for the referral.

We have a couple of different websites but the current video does focus on Jim. We really don't get objections to the guys we send. (just the one with the bleeding geisha head climbing up his neck :0) Our new site is a bit more generic. 

Jim is our biggest selling point, he has a good reputation and has been around for a long time. People don't object to someone other than him showing up, but our challenge is to maintain the standards set by him and to grow beyond him as the main guy. We're in between...being able to offer that super personalized serivice and becoming more generic. That's one of the issues we're talking about. Some of our ads talk about the ace team of expert electricians he has handpicked to give the same level of service our customers have come to expect. Now we have to deliver on that promise or change the message. 

Right now sales isn't our problem. The sales are coming in, it's managing the work and maintaining quality of service. Lately we haven't even been able to take many service calls, we've had to refer them out to one of our former employees or a friendly competitor because we've had everyone tied up on big rewires and meter upgrades. It's hard to pull a guy off a meter upgrade to send them out for a $150 service call. 
That is one reason we need someone else. Those small service calls often lead to the bigger money jobs. In my opinion they are very important too. We have a ton of big jobs that are getting ready to hit at the same time. We need to get the work done and well- more than sell. We also have a lot of government work ready to start and we have zero experience dealing with certified payroll and all the paperwork required. The certified payroll we can send out but not the other paperwork.

Jim has visible tattoos and so does one of the other guys. We are not anti-tattoo or stupidly appearance sensitive, but when you are sending people to old ladies appearance does count to a degree. Full sleeve tattoos are not all the great in a residential situation. If an electrician neat & polite with a professional attitude we have a lot of lattitude about appearance including tatoos. Attitude will trump appearance everytime. Our main requirment is that they are presentable and wear the button down work shirt for estimates and clean service calls. White or blue company tshirts are fine for everything else.
Most people are fine with that.


----------



## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

erics37 said:


> I've got a goatee, 0 gauge earrings, and I wear a baseball cap to work. Sometimes it's even on backwards.
> 
> My company provides plain gray t-shirts with our logo on the front and back. I never tuck them in.
> 
> ...


Eric we'd be thrilled to have someone just like you. You sound terrific.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Curious about something- what's a service electrician make in SanFran?


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

The Lightman said:


> Google out of the bucket. You need an S.O.P


I just ordered the book and the 36 week program. It sounds like it might be just what we've been looking for. I'm sure I'll get a lot out of it.

I never heard of this program. Thanks!!


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Curious about something- what's a service electrician make in SanFran?


We're san diego. About $30- $35/hr plus bonuses and incentives. There are lots of guys working for $17/hr and lots not working at all. After getting burned a bunch of times, we now start at $20 and explain why. IF they're any good they go to $25 in one month or less (sometimes 2 weeks), then to $30 within 90 days. $35 within 6 months if they're good. We also give $150 cash to everyone including the office when we meet our montly sales goal. Each guy gets $10 for bringing in a positive customer survey after a service call. Jim typically gives $300-$400 bonuses on jobs over $10k if they are done well. (this is not an official policy but he does it quite often)

One of our competitors pays his foreman $25/hr. He keeps telling us we're paying too much. 

We believe in paying people what they are worth and as much as we can afford. Right now this is very comptetetive for the area. We've had guys getting over $40/hr but none of the current crew.

Prevailing wage for residential electricians here is <3 stories is $22/hr + 3% + $2.90
PW for commercial electrician is $37 + 3% + $11.90 (or something close)

Heavy commercial pays more.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Roll with me for a sec.... what's a 2-bedroom apartment rent for?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Technicians work for cable companies or your local car dealer..
> 
> _Electricians_ are the skilled craftsmen you want working on your electrical system..
> 
> ...


The men working under me are technicians that hold electrical licenses.

This is not dumbing things down, this is saying they are better than just electricians.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

yrman said:


> Eric we'd be thrilled to have someone just like you. You sound terrific.


You wouldn't want me. I'd hit on your wife.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

erics37 said:


> You wouldn't want me. I'd hit on your wife.


I think she is married to a man.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I think she is married to a man.


Oh... so that's the wife that's been posting?

I stand corrected.

You wouldn't want me. I'd hit on you.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

erics37 said:


> Actually they're just surgical steel tubes, flared on each end. They're about as tasteful as an earring can get considering you can slide a pencil through them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't understand why anyone would want to mutilate their body with that junk.. :no:

If you want to look good and do something different.. get a gym membership..

You don't see successful walking around with nuts, bolts, and tubes hanging from their ears.. :no:

But maybe your goal is to live in someone else's house all your life..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> The men working under me are technicians that hold electrical licenses.
> 
> This is not dumbing things down, this is saying they are better than just electricians.


YES.. it is dumbing down the trade.. everybody now turning a screwdriver is a technician and everybody working a register at Walmart is an associate..

The guys working in your shop were just as smart long before some geek came up with the name _technician_..

Are you a master electrical or a master technician.. look at your electrical license to find the correct answer..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> YES.. it is dumbing down the trade.. everybody now turning a screwdriver is a technician and everybody working a register at Walmart is an associate..
> 
> The guys working in your shop were just as smart long before some geek came up with the name _technician_..
> 
> Are you a master electrical or a master technician.. look at your electrical license to find the correct answer..


Oh no, you're not starting with this nonsense again. :no:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> YES.. it is dumbing down the trade.. everybody now turning a screwdriver is a technician and everybody working a register at Walmart is an associate..
> 
> The guys working in your shop were just as smart long before some geek came up with the name _technician_..
> 
> Are you a master electrical or a master technician.. look at your electrical license to find the correct answer..



I won't even bother


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I won't even bother


If a Technician buys you a $40 an hr job over being classified as a Mechanic for $25 an hr. God bless it. As in the posters dilema , you get what you pay for, cheap labor buys cheap results. In my slower seasons I occasionally sub work from other ECs. $50 an hour plus travel, but the usual techniques apply, dropclothes as hallway runners and work area, courtesy, production with small talk to a minimum.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

B4T said:


> YES.. it is dumbing down the trade.. everybody now turning a screwdriver is a technician and everybody working a register at Walmart is an associate..
> 
> The guys working in your shop were just as smart long before some geek came up with the name _technician_..
> 
> Are you a master electrical or a master technician.. look at your electrical license to find the correct answer..


I'm a licensed journeyman electrician (five year apprenticeship) and also a member of ETA international and hold multiple electronics technician certifications. My degree is in electronic technology. I keep up or exceed with continuing education courses in both fields. When I look at my licenses my favorite one states *combination fishing/hunting license*. I'm dumbing down the trade by learning more.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

yrman said:


> Ms. Y here.
> Lately we have been plagued by experienced journeymen electricians making too many really bonehead mistakes that you might expect from an apprentice. We have also had way too many call backs lately. Mr. Y is fed up and about ready to clean house. I think, we need to make sure every single person we send into the field has a _crystal clear_ understanding of our expectations and requirements... in writing and we should work to help our current guys learn to avoid mistakes before taking more drastic action.
> 
> I am working on checklists to help clearly outline our expectations to anyone who works for us.
> ...


 
You forgot thou shall not know how to count

I hope you don't give that list to them and call it the "10 commandments for residential technicians"

If I worked for you and you gave that to me I would be too distracted thinking you were an idiot that can't count

Alot of that could be conslidated into 10. Its way too much right now and I think only an condescending a-hole would give that to his employees


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


yrman said:



Ms. Y here.What would you add to this?

Click to expand...

*
I would like to add that you could take this job and shove it up your ss. I would never work for you. You are a control freak. Seriously where would it end?

Don't forget you might be doing the interviewing but you are also being interviewed. 

Here is some advise for you. Cut to the chase and just ask this... Who wears the pant in your family? Mommy or Daddy? You will then know who will actually put up with you.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

So I take it no one is wearing FR clothing even though panel covers are most likely being removed on energized panels to do troubleshooting? I use to have to wear as basic level, a cotton tee, cotton underware, a long sleeved FR shirt and FR pants. This was when I worked for the "company". Now many years later I'm on my own and don't wear this stuff. But how do you get away with not requiring your employees to? FR is a OSHA requirement and all employees are covered.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Island Electric said:


> I would like to add that you could take this job and shove it up your ss. I would never work for you. You are a control freak. Seriously where would it end?
> 
> Don't forget you might be doing the interviewing but you are also being interviewed.
> 
> Here is some advise for you. Cut to the chase and just ask this... Who wears the pant in your family? Mommy or Daddy? You will then know who will actually put up with you.


If you bothered to read past the first post you'd see that we DO NOT hand out a list like this. Fyi We don't care that people are interviewing us. They SHOULD. We should BOTH benefit from the association. Why would we even want to interview let alone hire someone with a crappy disrespectul attitude. They come to us are looking for work. We have plenty of work and need QUALIFIED competent electricians who know how to behave off a construction site and in peoples homes. Sadly they seem to be a minority. We get dozens of applicants for every ad and we do specify a few of those points. Our goal is to screen out people who can't or won't do the job the way we want it done. That's why it is our company. Maybe that is why they are looking for work and we are hiring. Not to worry, i'm 100% positive you'd never make it past the delete button. If someone with your attitude somehow managed to get hired by us they wouldn't last a day. There have been a few that fooled us and were hired. They didn't last a week. Their resumes still show up every time we run an ad. Guess no one else wanted them either.

We have not EVER had an electrician we offered a job to turn us down. Usually they are happy for the opportunity to work. 

BTW My HUSBAND wears the pants he's just too busy WORKING to post. He takes no **** from anyone and guys like you wouldn't make it through the door. The opinions I post are his. Would it upset you as much from him or was it because a woman wrote the post? You and redliz should get together youd be a good match unless shes too much of a man for you. If you think requiring electricians who go into peoples homes to be polite and respectful is so horrible then clearly you should not be going into peoples homes. 
Ps. Trust me we would never even interview you let alone offer you a job.


----------



## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

backstay said:


> So I take it no one is wearing FR clothing even though panel covers are most likely being removed on energized panels to do troubleshooting? I use to have to wear as basic level, a cotton tee, cotton underware, a long sleeved FR shirt and FR pants. This was when I worked for the "company". Now many years later I'm on my own and don't wear this stuff. But how do you get away with not requiring your employees to? FR is a OSHA requirement and all employees are covered.


I have never heard of this requirement and neither has my husband. We don't know of any laws like this. We do have a safety program administered by an outside company and it hasn't ever come up. None of the other ECs around here dress any differently. Maybe it varies by state? I suspect that the industrial guys have to wear special clothing. Maybe it's different for residential? This is the first time we've heard this. We'll check it out.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

yrman said:


> If you bothered to read past the first post you'd see that we DO NOT hand out a list like this. Fyi We don't care that people are interviewing us. They SHOULD. We should BOTH benefit from the association. Why would we even want to interview let alone hire someone with a crappy disrespectul attitude. They come to us are looking for work. We have plenty of work and need QUALIFIED competent electricians who know how to behave off a construction site and in peoples homes. Sadly they seem to be a minority. We get dozens of applicants for every ad and we do specify a few of those points. Our goal is to screen out people who can't or won't do the job the way we want it done. That's why it is our company. Maybe that is why they are looking for work and we are hiring. Not to worry, i'm 100% positive you'd never make it past the delete button. If someone with your attitude somehow managed to get hired by us they wouldn't last a day. There have been a few that fooled us and were hired. They didn't last a week. Their resumes still show up every time we run an ad. Guess no one else wanted them either.
> 
> We have not EVER had an electrician we offered a job to turn us down. Usually they are happy for the opportunity to work.
> 
> ...


It is funny 

you posted that asking for thoughts
and then when we told you what we thought you pull an attitude like this

Now get your ass back in the kitchen and bring me a pie woman... :lol:


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

yrman said:


> I have never heard of this requirement and neither has my husband. We don't know of any laws like this. We do have a safety program administered by an outside company and it hasn't ever come up. None of the other ECs around here dress any differently. Maybe it varies by state? I suspect that the industrial guys have to wear special clothing. Maybe it's different for residential? This is the first time we've heard this. We'll check it out.


OSHA is federal not state. If you work "hot" it applies. So If you have a panel off a loadcenter that is energized you are working hot.

NFPA 70E, the "Standard For Electrical Safety In The Workplace", is published by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). It was developed to protect electrical workers who work on or near equipment that is capable of generating an arc flash. Common occupations covered by NFPA 70E are electrical maintenance workers, industrial electricians and machine operators. The regulation requires employers to conduct an arc flash hazard analysis to identify a worker's potential exposure for employees who work on or near* energized equipment*. The results of the analysis are then used to determine safe work practices, including the appropriate level of personal protective equipment. The level of arc exposure is referred to as the arc thermal performance value (ATPV) or cal rating. NFPA 70E requires employees to wear FR clothing with an ATPV rating equal to or greater than the determined arc hazard.


----------



## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> It is funny
> 
> you posted that asking for thoughts
> and then when we told you what we thought you pull an attitude like this
> ...


Apple or cherry?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

drsparky said:


> I'm a licensed journeyman electrician (five year apprenticeship) and also a member of ETA international and hold multiple electronics technician certifications. My degree is in electronic technology. I keep up or exceed with continuing education courses in both fields. When I look at my licenses my favorite one states *combination fishing/hunting license*. I'm dumbing down the trade by learning more.


How many electricians on this site have degrees in "electronic technology"..:blink::blink:

I will change my views about dumbing down our trade when I start seeing EC trucks posting.. _LICENSED TECHNICIAN..:_


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

erics37 said:


> and I wear a baseball cap to work. Sometimes it's even on backwards.


The horror! 

I'm a hat guy too. I can't stand going out of the house without one. It keeps the sun off my thinning hair, and the dust and debris out too. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I will change my views about dumbing down our trade when I start seeing EC trucks posting.. _LICENSED TECHNICIAN..:_


Stop being such a tool. Large companies like BBQ's employ technicians. They do work all over the northeast. So you just need to get over it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Stop being such a tool. Large companies like BBQ's employ technicians. They do work all over the northeast. So you just need to get over it.


Bunch of BS.. :no::no::no::no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Stop being such a tool. Large companies like BBQ's employ technicians. They do work all over the northeast. So you just need to get over it.


Why is Electrician a bad word??:blink:

Isn't that what we are Electricians.:thumbup:


After all this forum is called Electricians Talk:thumbup:,, Not technicians Talk..


----------



## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> If a Technician buys you a $40 an hr job over being classified as a Mechanic for $25 an hr. God bless it. As in the posters dilema , you get what you pay for, cheap labor buys cheap results. In my slower seasons I occasionally sub work from other ECs. $50 an hour plus travel, but the usual techniques apply, dropclothes as hallway runners and work area, courtesy, production with small talk to a minimum.


$35/hr is about 67K/ year. That's not including bonuses or OT. Around here, that's pretty good. Do we start them at that - no, he has in the past but not anymore. Gotten burned a _bunch_ of times. DH knows right away if they're worth it. If someone was that good, we'd pay $50/hr with pleasure. If a guy is a halfway decent electrician with a good attitude and work ethic he'll be at $30 within a 4-6 weeks, $35 not long after. We'd pay $50/hr for someone who's worth it. There are several guys we know who we'd be glad to pay $50/hr but they are self employed and since they're good, they're busy. We just called one of the guys who used to work for us and is on his own and offered him that to help us out with some jobs. It's not for lack of willingness to pay, but it's not fair to guys who are already here and earned their raises for us to bring in someone new and untried and pay them higher out the gate. _That_ is not good for morale. We'd do it for someone we already know though. Everyone looks so good on paper. We've had several experiences where someone looked great on paper and in person, had good references and then turned out to be....well let's say not as advertised. Often the supervisor who gave a good reference has no idea about their true skills or workmanship, they just knew they showed up every day. Like others have said, we move on pretty fast, but it's a drag to hire and fire people. I'm not convinced we'd do any better by starting higher. We do not list salary in the ads so that is not screening out talented guys who earn more. I think we'd still have to screen a bunch to find each keeper no matter the starting salary. I've never seen my husband say "that guy'd be perfect but I can't pay what he's worth".

I've seen my husband raise guys $5/hr in the first couple of days because they were good and he felt they deserved it. $17/hr is cheap labor. $30-40 isn't. My husband pays himself $35/hr.


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## TundraJD (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm sorry but aren't all those commandments bred into us when we are first year apprentices? If a j-man is to stupid to know these rules I wouldn't want to hire them from an employers or customers perspective

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Thats all B.S. Union scale gives an Electrician a base rate,benefits, pension,medical ,dental ,vision,ect. But alas... no bonus. What do you offer?


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## kevmanTA (Jul 20, 2010)

> Wear any hat other than a baseball cap facing frontwards... no sideways or backwards brims!


I always wear my hat backwards indoors... Ooooooohhhhhhhh


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

B4T said:


> How many electricians on this site have degrees in "electronic technology"..:blink::blink:
> 
> I will change my views about dumbing down our trade when I start seeing EC trucks posting.. _LICENSED TECHNICIAN..:_


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

yrman said:


> $35/hr is about 67K/ year. That's not including bonuses or OT. Around here, that's pretty good. Do we start them at that - no, he has in the past but not anymore. Gotten burned a _bunch_ of times. DH knows right away if they're worth it. If someone was that good, we'd pay $50/hr with pleasure. If a guy is a halfway decent electrician with a good attitude and work ethic he'll be at $30 within a 4-6 weeks, $35 not long after. We'd pay $50/hr for someone who's worth it. There are several guys we know who we'd be glad to pay $50/hr but they are self employed and since they're good, they're busy. We just called one of the guys who used to work for us and is on his own and offered him that to help us out with some jobs. It's not for lack of willingness to pay, but it's not fair to guys who are already here and earned their raises for us to bring in someone new and untried and pay them higher out the gate. _That_ is not good for morale. We'd do it for someone we already know though. Everyone looks so good on paper. We've had several experiences where someone looked great on paper and in person, had good references and then turned out to be....well let's say not as advertised. Often the supervisor who gave a good reference has no idea about their true skills or workmanship, they just knew they showed up every day. Like others have said, we move on pretty fast, but it's a drag to hire and fire people. I'm not convinced we'd do any better by starting higher. We do not list salary in the ads so that is not screening out talented guys who earn more. I think we'd still have to screen a bunch to find each keeper no matter the starting salary. I've never seen my husband say "that guy'd be perfect but I can't pay what he's worth".
> 
> I've seen my husband raise guys $5/hr in the first couple of days because they were good and he felt they deserved it. $17/hr is cheap labor. $30-40 isn't. My husband pays himself $35/hr.


That's pretty good pay, for that amount you should be able to find quality employees. the screening process is the hardest. just keep hiring and have new guys work with shop foreman for a few days to see if they are what they say. I was once a foreman for a shop and many guys decided not to return to work when they found out they only where good enough to remain my helper.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> I don't understand why anyone would want to mutilate their body with that junk.. :no:


I have a feeling you don't understand a lot of things :001_huh:



Peter D said:


> The horror!
> 
> I'm a hat guy too. I can't stand going out of the house without one. It keeps the sun off my thinning hair, and the dust and debris out too. :laughing:


Totally. When I'm crawling around in an old attic I much prefer that the cobwebs all get stuck to my hat than to my head. I can always take it outside and smack it against a tree to get all the crud off.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

erics37 said:


> I have a feeling you don't understand a lot of things :001_huh:


OK.. explain it to me why someone wants to put 1/4" holes in their ear lobes big enough to slide a pencil through..

I understand the tribes in Africa use that as a custom.. but what about the modern world.. :blink::blink:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> OK.. explain it to me why someone wants to put 1/4" holes in their ear lobes big enough to slide a pencil through..
> 
> I understand the tribes in Africa use that as a custom.. but what about the modern world.. :blink::blink:


It helps with the securing of a supply of similarly decorated chicks?


B4T, How long was your ponytail in 75? Mine went almost to my waist......
Far out man, far out...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> It helps with the securing of a supply of similarly decorated chicks?
> 
> 
> B4T, How long was your ponytail in 75? Mine went almost to my waist......
> Far out man, far out...


No pony tail.. :laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

yrman said:


> Wow, I wasn't expecting some of those nasty comments.
> First of all _I_ do not manage the electricans in any way shape or form. Nor have we ever given anyone a list like that.
> 
> We are a _residential_ service company. We send electricians into people homes to fix problems. Many of the homes are nice, many of our customers are little old ladies.
> ...


Ms.Y Stand your ground and get the people you need. The residential market is a very difficult market. Every square inch of a customers home seems to be a trap for you to clean carpets and replace tiles, repaint, etc for free. 
Also, you have to stock your trucks with every item that has been used to wire a house in the last 100 years. 
Collecting is a huge issue.
Apperance is a huge issue.
You are correct in understanding what you are looking for. Those that comment negatively are exactly the type of people you need to cull out.
You need people that can put on a show for your customers. With out that, you are below average.
Best wishes!!


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

jrannis said:


> Ms.Y Stand your ground and get the people you need. The residential market is a very difficult market. Every square inch of a customers home seems to be a trap for you to clean carpets and replace tiles, repaint, etc for free.
> Also, you have to stock your trucks with every item that has been used to wire a house in the last 100 years.
> Collecting is a huge issue.
> Apperance is a huge issue.
> ...


I don't think I could have put that better.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> That's pretty good pay, for that amount you should be able to find quality employees. the screening process is the hardest. just keep hiring and have new guys work with shop foreman for a few days to see if they are what they say. I was once a foreman for a shop and many guys decided not to return to work when they found out they only where good enough to remain my helper.


We know they're out there somewhere. You are right we need to just keep screening them. It gets tiresome. We are working to find better ways to develop the 2 we have now. They show promise and are loyal but they still seem to mess up a lot of jobs. We are working on systems to improve communication and prevent repeated problems. That's what prompted this thread. Not to insult people. :no: 
We're exploring splitting my husbands job in 2. Either hire a foreman to oversee the guys in the field (he'd rather do that part) or someone who can talk to customers on the phone, meet customers and write quotes (but most of our business comes from him meeting people). What would the 2nd position be called? Estimator? Sales? How much should someone like that be paid?
We're open to all angles. I guess whichever position we find a qualified person for first.


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## TundraJD (Jun 20, 2011)

yrman said:


> We know they're out there somewhere. You are right we need to just keep screening them. It gets tiresome. We are working to find better ways to develop the 2 we have now. They show promise and are loyal but they still seem to mess up a lot of jobs. We are working on systems to improve communication and prevent repeated problems. That's what prompted this thread. Not to insult people. :no:
> We're exploring splitting my husbands job in 2. Either hire a foreman to oversee the guys in the field (he'd rather do that part) or someone who can talk to customers on the phone, meet customers and write quotes (but most of our business comes from him meeting people). What would the 2nd position be called? Estimator? Sales? How much should someone like that be paid?
> We're open to all angles. I guess whichever position we find a qualified person for first.


Well I know here in Canada we have estimators especially for larger company's and yes that's exactly what they do is quotes and such as far as wage goes I don't think they would be worth more than 20-25/hr we have a buisness manager and she only makes 20/hr

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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

yrman said:


> We know they're out there somewhere. You are right we need to just keep screening them. It gets tiresome. We are working to find better ways to develop the 2 we have now. They show promise and are loyal but they still seem to mess up a lot of jobs. We are working on systems to improve communication and prevent repeated problems. That's what prompted this thread. Not to insult people. :no:
> We're exploring splitting my husbands job in 2. Either hire a foreman to oversee the guys in the field (he'd rather do that part) or someone who can talk to customers on the phone, meet customers and write quotes (but most of our business comes from him meeting people). What would the 2nd position be called? Estimator? Sales? How much should someone like that be paid?
> We're open to all angles. I guess whichever position we find a qualified person for first.


Your best bet is promote your most senior employee to this position, have him ride along with your husband for a week as a rookie. I held both in my last yr working for a company. I had a take home truck, ran the shop, ran the guys and performed estimates part time. It's possible to do , if your guy is money hungry enough He can accomplish all those task.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

yrman said:


> What would the 2nd position be called?


You're a service company mainly right? Call him the service manager, that's usually what that guy gets called around here. He can handle dispatch and all that and take that burden off the guys. 


IMO, service electricians should be making their own decisions, the owners and managers should not be _telling _them how to do things, suggestions are ok but if the guy's ways of doing things are compliant and safe let them roll with it.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Your best bet is promote your most senior employee to this position, have him ride along with your husband for a week as a rookie. I held both in my last yr working for a company. I had a take home truck, ran the shop, ran the guys and performed estimates part time. It's possible to do , if your guy is money hungry enough He can accomplish all those task.





Jlarson said:


> You're a service company mainly right? Call him the service manager, that's usually what that guy gets called around here. He can handle dispatch and all that and take that burden off the guys.
> 
> 
> IMO, service electricians should be making their own decisions, the owners and managers should not be _telling _them how to do things, suggestions are ok but if the guy's ways of doing things are compliant and safe let them roll with it.


 
We keep trying. Just haven't found the right one I guess. We recently had a young guy that we had real high hopes for. Gave him a truck to take home, more and more money and autonomy. He knew my husbands expectations and worked with him side by side for months. But shortly after his last raise and giving him authority to run the jobs we started having issues with a super high callback rate (like 80%) and_ horrible_ workmanship. Stuff that like using incorrect size wire, not grounding outlets, not completing the work... and tons more. DH gave him chance after chance and ultimately had to fire him. We really liked the guy and were very upset but he just didn't care about his work. After he was gone, we started hearing from customers and the other guys that he had an arrogant and rude attitude with the customers. He's been gone since February and we are still getting callbacks from his jobs. Now that we've started giving the current Sr. guy more authority we are seeing an increase in callbacks and lazy workmanship. They do great if DH is around, but as soon as he backs off we see a drop in quality. If it was minor stuff we'd probably never even know, but when the callbacks and complaints start coming in then he starts find things like wrong size wire, conduit run at an angle up a wall to a light because someone was too lazy to make a right angle. Seriously how can an experienced licensed electrician with 10 years of experience not know the difference between 12 and 14 g wire? I'm not an electrician and I can tell the difference in a nanosecond. Do you know how many times we've heard, oh I didn't realize or I thought we didn't have any 12g. (from a couple of different guys)

As for telling them how to do things, we definitely require that work is safe and compliant but we don't want sloppy looking work out there representing our company. This is very important to us. There are levels of neat and professional looking work, but we don't want crooked conduit in the middle of someones wall representing our company. We do care about how work looks and that the correct materials and fittings are used. We don't want our electricians chopping big or unnecessary holes in customers walls or cutting trenches between track lights because it was too much trouble to fish the wire around joists. They know how to do it and that we don't want trenches cut in walls. We don't really think that is requiring too much. If they have their own way of doing things, that's fine as long as it is safe and compliant and the finished product looks neat and professional. After 38 years DH has lots of tricks and shortcuts which he gladly teaches them. If they want to do things their own way fine as long as the end result is acceptable. 

The issue is pride in workmanship. You can't _make_ someone have that, they either do or don't. If a competetent electrician doesn't care how something looks, we can't make them. We can require a certain level of neatness and professionlism but that's about all.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Maybe you need to start testing applicants, make up a written test. Very common here in AZ.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Maybe you need to start testing applicants, make up a written test. Very common here in AZ.


We do! However we're in the process of modifying the test cause clearly we need to change something. 

It's not that they don't know, it's more that they either don't care or are too lazy to make the effort. (some not all- now don't go flaming me). 
Our current (till we find someone more motivated with better leadership skills) lead guy DOES know, he just apologizes and says "yeah I knew better, sorry. I screwed up. Yeah I should have checked the other guys work, I just assumed they did it right......... sorry- I was the one who made up a panel with all red wire (it will fail inspection for that) because someone said there was no black on the truck..... Sorry".


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

yrman said:


> I was the one who made up a panel with all red wire (it will fail inspection for that)


Hold on, what? Using all red for the ungrounded conductors assuming there is only one system on the premises isn't a violation, at least not an NEC violation. Local code _maybe_.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

If everything is fine, then once you throw more responsibility there way things start getting messed up, then maybe you're giving too much responsibility at once.

Another thing, is this also the time guys figure out you are billing out at $200 per hour and they are only getting $30 per hour? Guys can get butt hurt over that. When you promote, do you go over financials with them?


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> Hold on, what? Using all red for the ungrounded conductors assuming there is only one system on the premises isn't a violation, at least not an NEC violation. Local code _maybe_.


I'm not an electrician so I don't know the codes. You are probably right. I'm not 100% sure that it will fail, but he said it could. Something about phases (beyond that statement I'm lost) :huh:. He was probably more annoyed that no one bothered to walk out to the truck and get the black wire and do it the way it is supposed(?) to be done. This customer is a GC and is the type to look for reasons to complain. I think in this case it was more likely to be an issue than on a lol (little old lady) house where someone isn't looking over our shoulder for reasons to bitch. Sorry if I misspoke.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I was just wondering if cali had some amendment, I'm always interested in what new crazy stuff they are up to.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

knowshorts said:


> If everything is fine, then once you throw more responsibility there way things start getting messed up, then maybe you're giving too much responsibility at once.
> 
> Another thing, is this also the time guys figure out you are billing out at $200 per hour and they are only getting $30 per hour? Guys can get butt hurt over that. When you promote, do you go over financials with them?


 
You are probably right. 
We are open about our financials. We communicate about our overhead and they understand that they get paid for every hour they work even though we clearly are not billing for all of those hours. We're a small informal family outfit and we need to become more structured. One thing I know from my younger days is that as an employee you have a really different perspective on how a businsess is operated. I'm 50. When I think back to my perspective at 25 I shudder about how naive I was. 

We had 24 year old electrician who used to work for one of our friends who is a comptetitor with a very similar operation. That company has 4 service trucks. He was absolutely convinced they did $10 million/year in revenue. :no: With 4 service vans doing residental service? I don't think so.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

drsparky said:


>


http://www.atiwi.com/ ???

That is NOT an Electrical Contractor . The person you quoted said EC

Companies that do that type of work are considered telecommunication technicians.

That has NOTHING to do with electrical work


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> How many electricians on this site have degrees in "electronic technology"..:blink::blink:
> 
> I will change my views about dumbing down our trade when I start seeing EC trucks posting.. _LICENSED TECHNICIAN..:_


I don't care iif you change your veiw or not, really not my problem.

One of my guys is a certificated IR technician in addition to holding a J-Mans license in CT, RI, VT, ME, NH and both J-man and masters in MA.

Another of my guys has spent weeks in classes for energy management / building control system installations and programing. This is in addition to his MA & RI J-mans license. He is an EMS technician.

All of my guys have had specific training in fire alarm systems that goes well beyond what they needed to know to get their license.





HARRY304E said:


> Why is Electrician a bad word??:blink:


No one said it is except you.

I am an electrician, that is also a technician, my skills greatly exceed the skills need to get a license.

There is nothing wrong with being an electrician, but it is better, and more profitable to be more than just an electrician.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

yrman said:


> One thing I know from my younger days is that as an employee you have a really different perspective on how a businsess is operated.


I started at $7 an hour. With about 3 months experience, I was thrown in head 1st doing a lot of the stuff the owner previously was doing. I was cool with it until I found out that the boss was charging $60. I was doing my job and his and that son of a bitch got a new car, was going on vacations, had a decent house, and I was struggling with my bills. I'll show him. I slowed down and forgot things so I could go back and make another $7. Guy was smart. Took me to dinner and explained the entire business side to me. Explained it all. I was pretty smart myself, and saw extra money and was able to immediately get raised to $12. Not bad when minimum wage $4.25.

But, I would say 9 out of 10 guys out there have no fricken idea about how much it costs to run a business and how many hours the boss actually works. They just see the new truck the owner is driving and think back to all the blood and sweat they shed so he can get that truck. They don't realize all the sleepless nights the owner deals with just to figure out how to pay his men and vendors.


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

knowshorts said:


> But, I would say 9 out of 10 guys out there have no fricken idea about how much it costs to run a business and how many hours the boss actually works. They just see the new truck the owner is driving and think back to all the blood and sweat they shed so he can get that truck. They don't realize all the sleepless nights the owner deals with just to figure out how to pay his men and vendors.


Our employees get paid first no matter what. There have been times when we had to pull from our personal savings to make payroll and I can't tell you how many times eveyone but us has gotten paid. (probably not he smartest business practice but we sleep well)


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## Jsmit319 (Sep 23, 2010)

stick to your guns and policies....appearances and attitude do make a difference in customer referrals particularly in service work. I also found it a big factor in residential remodels. Bottom line, it's your company and should reflect your values. If anyone can't handle the rules and restrictions, show them the door because they won't represent you or your company in the light you wish. Been there, done that. That's why my middle name starts with "A" and ends with "hole" with some of my former employees.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> http://www.atiwi.com/ ???
> 
> That is NOT an Electrical Contractor . The person you quoted said EC
> 
> ...


I guess chasing sparks and chasing sparks is different, I thought we used the same laws of physics. Electrons movement must be different south of here.
It's too bad you limit yourself. A lot of work is out there if you expand you horizons.
Yes I no longer run 4" RMC and spend years on a job site with 150 million dollar budgets, but I am home every night and am enjoying my work. God help me, I spend a lot of my time working on Motorola radios, I should loose my man card for that.
I guess all the years that I worked for a *real* electrical contractor installing and troubleshooting PLCs, motor controls and instrumentation was not electrical work either.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

drsparky said:


> I guess chasing sparks and chasing sparks is different, I thought we used the same laws of physics. Electrons movement must be different south of here.
> It's too bad you limit yourself. A lot of work is out there if you expand you horizons.
> Yes I no longer run 4" RMC and spend years on a job site with 150 million dollar budgets, but I am home every night and am enjoying my work. God help me, I spend a lot of my time working on Motorola radios, I should loose my man card for that.
> I guess all the years that I worked for a *real* electrical contractor installing and troubleshooting PLCs, motor controls and instrumentation was not electrical work either.


 
What the hell does that have to do with anything?

I company that owns that van is not an electrical contractor

Read the post you quoted when you included that pic


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> What the hell does that have to do with anything?
> 
> I company that owns that van is not an electrical contractor
> 
> Read the post you quoted when you included that pic


Your right, B4T did state, _EC_ my bad. That's my van, in my driveway, (it belong to the company, I just take it home every night), no we are not a _electrical contractor_. Then previous company I worked for called them self a _constructor_, they did industrial construction, had about 300 workers consisting of electricians, pipefiters, engineers, operators, welders, carpenters and laborers, I must not have been a electrician then either since I did not work for a _electrical contractor_. 
Allen Bradly, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Cutler Hammer, Siemens, GM, Ford, etc are not _electrical contractors_ what do you call their people who work on the electrical stuff?
I guess I am no longer an electrician, just an technician. I thought I was both.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

B4T said:


> OK.. explain it to me why someone wants to put 1/4" holes in their ear lobes big enough to slide a pencil through..
> 
> I understand the tribes in Africa use that as a custom.. but what about the modern world.. :blink::blink:


Folly of youth, dude. Everyone's allowed a mulligan in their early 20s. Of course there are some people who are douches their entire life :whistling2:



macmikeman said:


> It helps with the securing of a supply of similarly decorated chicks?


You betcha! My wife's got 1/4" holes in her ears, and some tattoos, and her hair is dreadlocked. And she's a perfectly decent contributing member of society.

I'd bang a tattooed and pierced chick just as fast as a ditzy farm girl :thumbsup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I still can't believe B4t had short hair during that 70's show........:notworthy:

Like I said, my flag went right down my back...


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## Kevin McDonald (Jun 22, 2011)

yrman said:


> Ms. Y here.
> Lately we have been plagued by experienced journeymen electricians making too many really bonehead mistakes that you might expect from an apprentice. We have also had way too many call backs lately. Mr. Y is fed up and about ready to clean house. I think, we need to make sure every single person we send into the field has a _crystal clear_ understanding of our expectations and requirements... in writing and we should work to help our current guys learn to avoid mistakes before taking more drastic action.
> 
> I am working on checklists to help clearly outline our expectations to anyone who works for us.
> ...



Are technicians the guy's that work for the phone company? I know in my town when the nice people from the cable company come out, they call themselves techs. :thumbsup:


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

I find it funny because BBQ poked at my appearance and brian john said I would never work for him because of it, yet I agree and strictly follow all of those 26 commandments. Harry says there's no reason for a beard, like maybe I am some kind of slacker. Huh.

I believe in thee utmost courtesy, yet I have long hair I always wear tucked in, and sport a full beard.

Well, the local self service gas station is hiring


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## Kevin McDonald (Jun 22, 2011)

76nemo said:


> I find it funny because BBQ poked at my appearance and brian john said I would never work for him because of it, yet I agree and strictly follow all of those 26 commandments. Harry says there's no reason for a beard, like maybe I am some kind of slacker. Huh.
> 
> I believe in thee utmost courtesy, yet I have long hair I always wear tucked in, and sport a full beard.
> 
> Well, the local self service gas station is hiring


I use to have a full beard. My wife said it would be bad for business and talked me into shaving it.  I had my beard for 12 years. I did not intend on shaving it. But she was right! :thumbsup: My business really went took off after I shaved that buster!


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

76nemo said:


> I find it funny because BBQ poked at my appearance and brian john said I would never work for him because of it, yet I agree and strictly follow all of those 26 commandments. Harry says there's no reason for a beard, like maybe I am some kind of slacker. Huh.
> 
> I believe in thee utmost courtesy, yet I have long hair I always wear tucked in, and sport a full beard.
> 
> Well, the local self service gas station is hiring


We care more about an overall neat appearance than the specifics of facial hair etc... Attitude will usually trump appearance unless it is very radical. We don't consider facial hair or long but neat hair or even some tattoos radical. (it seems like EVERYONE in CA has tattoos and lots of them) Tats up the neck and across the knuckles look very gangster. We did have a problem with that.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I still can't believe B4t had short hair during that 70's show........:notworthy:
> 
> Like I said, my flag went right down my back...


I cut my long hair off about 5 years ago now :thumbsup:










This is my favorite picture ever:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Whoa. I didn't know you were a hoarder, Eric.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Whoa. I didn't know you were a hoarder, Eric.


:laughing:

I want to tell you all the s**t piled up is because we were packing things up to move (because we were) but you wouldn't believe me


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

I am the husband of the lady who came up with the 10 commandments of electrical employees. I have been the owner of this company since 1988. My lady of just over 2 years now, has been personally responsible for doubling our sales, each year, for the past 2 years. Her humor and her attitude in our office is an asset that all of our employees love her for. Her ten commandments was for humor only. I have tats, large ones. I'm a big guy and can appear very intimidating, but like many of you have said, attitude is most important to the customer, and I can cover my tats with a shirt sleave. Most of the rules about appearance are MY rules. I have been an electrician for 40 years. I have done commercial, residential, service & repair, and everything in between. I choose to be a service company because I like the people and I like being appreciated for providing my customers with great service. It's very rewarding. So, with this in mind, I have certian criteria for anyone being considered for employment. Do I know it all? Of course not. Anyone who says they do is a liar. But I love this sector of electrical work more than any other kind of construction I've ever done. It's very different, that's for sure. But it pays on the spot. So, maybe we are a little strict with our requirements, but we treat our employees like family and they like working here. That''s all I got. One other thing: Shockdoc, I'm a huge Floyd fan. Love your marching hammers. MR. Yrman.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

You are building a team. To win and even keep up, it is important to keep your standards high and get the people you want, provide a premium service and collect your fees for those services. If you have doubled that in just a couple of years, I would say to keep stroking, you must be doing something right.:thumbsup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

BTW,
Just a uniform suggestion:


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## yrman (Jun 12, 2011)

That is too funny.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

jrannis said:


> BTW,
> Just a uniform suggestion:


How'd you find that picture of me?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

erics37 said:


> How'd you find that picture of me?


I thought all of the Hipsters were in Seattle. But, now that its posted here......


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> So does it hurt when you pull your junk back to hide it?


That's a **** comment.:no::laughing:


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Y- I just looked at the list; funny how I missed it until today.

First off, I wouldn't use that "cleaning house' threat casually, not if you want anyone to care. Indeed, it ought not be tossed out in a general message at all. 

"Thou shal not" also has a negative tone to it. Your list is silent on what you 'shall' do, or what the company wants to do.

Look at these two statements, and tell me which you prefer:
"Do not do to otheres what is hateful to you."
"Do unto others what you would have them do unto you."

Do you see the difference a positive statement makes?

Now, your list is a bit muddled, but the statements seem to fit into two categories:
1) Appearance and housekeeping matters; and,
2) Business practices.

Maybe you need to break them into those two categories.

Here's a suggested start in your re-write:

"At Zapmaster Electric we expect the following:
"Business practices- Honest, prompt, courteous, and guaranteed performance. To ensure that, we have the following policies....
"Work practices- Looks matter! Look neat. Work neat. Clean up. We provide ....
"Your performance- We give you a broom. USE IT. etc ....
"We're here to make sure you can do your job. We will support you in the field. If the customer has questions, we will handle it. If you need something, we will get it. If you have a concern, talk to us.
"Happy customers make for happy companies, which means happy employees. Unhappy customers don't call ... which means we all get to find new jobs."

You treat folks like children, they act that way. Treat them like the pros that they are. That especially means respect - and respect means you get that "Lord and serf" mentality out of your mind.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

I supply unlmited beer, cigarettes, and red bulls then I can pay $15/hr and their happy as pig's in ****


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

Cletis said:


> I supply unlmited beer, cigarettes, and red bulls then I can pay $15/hr and their happy as pig's in ****


I want to work for you. I'd get a raise and get to be drunk every day sounds like a win win for me! Pay for my plane ticket and I can be there tomorrow


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

yrman said:


> And tuck in your shirt, even if you're down to your T shirt!
> Pull up your pants!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

LMAO. That was good. I just got a mental picture of a bunch of the homees hauling little red wagons around.

-John


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

Can't chew gum? Really? Do we park around the corner to have lunch or is in the truck ok? Have a spare shirt on hand...you realize it's construction Right? And ya will get dirty at some point. What if both Shirts are dirty? Do I find a laundromat and wash em quick? Good luck with enforcing that list unless you are paying TOP dollar.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

smiley mcrib said:


> I want to work for you. I'd get a raise and get to be drunk every day sounds like a win win for me! Pay for my plane ticket and I can be there tomorrow


I dont pay for crapping though, sorry


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Cletis said:


> I dont pay for crapping though, sorry


The crapping can really stink up the bottom line.:laughing:


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## Pompadour (Mar 19, 2011)

a LOT of people seem to have tattoos these days. i have been hoping that they will fall out of favor. at the very least, you should be able to cover your tattoos with your work clothes. this is just my opinion. 

as far as clothes and uniforms and such...

if one is not wearing work boots, they should be sent home to get them or told to come back the next day. sneakers are absolutely unacceptable for work.

if one is not wearing pants, they should be sent home to get some or told to come back the next day. shorts are absolutely unacceptable for work.

shirts should be clean, have nothing offensive on them, and have at least 4" sleeves. tank tops are not acceptable for work.

if a company decides to have a uniform... polyester uniform clothes like ****ies.com and such are a TERRIBLE option. an electrician should have clothes on that will burn, NOT melt. an electrician's clothing should be made of natural fibers (cotton, wool) or FR rated synthetics. too many guys are out there wearing polyester clothing. it does not breathe well and it MELTS. jeans are actually a really good option for electricians because denim burns instead of melting. when buying shirts for your company, always buy 100% cotton.

i agree about "sagging". a worker should have his pants pulled up and a belt on.

i also agree about hats. a hats brim should be forward, except when one's brim will be in the way. in that case, turning a hat around is intuitive.

i have no opinion on whether a shirt should be tucked in or not... but when one's gut hangs out the bottom of ones shirt, that is disgusting. that is absolutely unacceptable for work.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Pompadour said:


> a LOT of people seem to have tattoos these days. i have been hoping that they will fall out of favor. at the very least, you should be able to cover your tattoos with your work clothes. this is just my opinion.
> 
> as far as clothes and uniforms and such...
> 
> ...


Keep posting , I need to move further out into the middle of nowhere to get away from sheeple think like that, you are very motivating..


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

A few have posted here, objecting to specific parts of the list. 

That's fine, but remember that not every job is the same. I expect there to be quite a bit of variation between different contractors and different climates. For all I know, the Mr. Electric franchise in Glasgow has their guys in kilts :laughing:.

A man may choose the way he wants to run his business. Heck, my crew wear the pink hard hats i provide. (My crew is three young ladies, and they'll work rings around most other crews!) The challenge an employer faces is getting his crew to put forth the image the owner wants customers to see.


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

I have tattoos. I guess i dont know a screw driver, from a hammer. Im doomed.


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## pwoody (Oct 14, 2012)

You cant say no to wearing shorts in the summer, thats why carrhart makes shorts.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

No longer hair ? No facial Hair at all ?

Damn I guess most of you folks would not approve of Jesus Christ himself :whistling2:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Dude, Jesus was all inked out. He definitely wouldn't have worked.








Besides, I hear he backstabbed receptacles.

-John


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

So does that mean you dont do anything funny and witty like no-shave november? I love my new beard and deal with customers every day. 

Plus, when it is super hot out, im rocking shorts. Nothing worse than the feeling of peeling your jeans off down over your swamp a$$, where it such a battle you should have just cut the damn things off.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

yrman said:


> Ms. Y here.
> Lately we have been plagued by experienced journeymen electricians making too many really bonehead mistakes that you might expect from an apprentice. We have also had way too many call backs lately. Mr. Y is fed up and about ready to clean house. I think, we need to make sure every single person we send into the field has a _crystal clear_ understanding of our expectations and requirements... in writing and we should work to help our current guys learn to avoid mistakes before taking more drastic action.
> 
> I am working on checklists to help clearly outline our expectations to anyone who works for us.
> ...


If you need to tell your employees this stuff, get new employees.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

One of my crew wearing our company uniform:


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