# Cable Ties - Listed & Identified



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It’s a good thing that I don’t pay much attention to code.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

When you cut off the tail, you throw away the listing ID. I know a guy who knows a guy who keeps a bag of listed ones in the truck in case the inspector asks.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I would honestly start laughing if my inspector called me on this. It would pretty much be an FO moment.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

I knew. Care less. 

Rodder wire for MC:thumbsup:

Use the black ones outside.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

We're _cable ties_ were being used in_ cable trays_ quite a while back?
:blink:
~CS~


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Gotta have more jacket on romex enter the enclosure too, see anyone giving a crap? lol


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

manchestersparky said:


> How many of you know that as of the 2017 NEC, cable ties used to secure/support MC & NM cable must be listed ??


I wonder which manufacturer pushed that through?

Of course it must be a real fire hazard to use unlisted zip ties. There's just no way the NFPA would put it in the code book if it wasn't an actual fire hazard....right?

Maybe next, they can require us to use insulated staples with MC. There's a real danger there too, you know, using regular staples.

Or maybe they can come out with a hammer with a depth stop gauge like roto hammers come with from the factory, so we can't overdrive our staples.

Now, I just need to find a manufacturer to make a listed depth stop hammer and get it pushed through the CMP. I can see my royalty checks are going to be stacking up anytime now...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Cow said:


> I wonder which manufacturer pushed that through?
> 
> Of course it must be a real fire hazard to use unlisted zip ties. There's just no way the NFPA would put it in the code book if it wasn't an actual fire hazard....right?
> 
> ...



I bet Panduit/Thomas & Betts had some influence.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I bet some of them ten jackoff's from Holt who pat each other on the back after counting up how many proposals they submitted each cycle have something to do with it.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

Are zip ties a "fitting"?

334.6 Listing Requirements. Type NM, Type NMC, and
Type NMS cables and associated fittings shall be listed.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Mulder said:


> Are zip ties a "fitting"?
> 
> 334.6 Listing Requirements. Type NM, Type NMC, and
> Type NMS cables and associated fittings shall be listed.


If zip ties are a fitting, staples must be. But they aren't.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I bet Panduit/Thomas & Betts had some influence.


IIRC, one of our illustrious trade rags detailed how Panduit lobbied ,and gained NEC recognition as a '_fastener_' quite some time ago.

One of the biggest hurdles being UV rated for use outdoors.

I'm unsure why the '17 is focused on it all_ now_....:blink:~CS~


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

My dad was an electrician, but then jumped ship in the 80s to do custom woodwork... could it be that he saw the increasingly stupid code requirements and got out before it was too late? That's how I feel now.. This isn't a trade for tradesmen and mechanics anymore. It's become a job for technicians installing prefab equipment.

Look at it like this: the meat of the NEC is power wiring. That really hasn't had a substantial change since maybe the late 50s. Wire, pipe, cable, terminations, grounding.... all basically the same as it ever was. But that doesn't sell code books or arc fault breakers or listed zip ties, so they have to keep changing something.. anything. They've reached the end of their idea machine this go 'round, so now it's zip ties. The code is a money-grab and has been since at least 1999.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Will this chase people into the duct tape crowd?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> Will this chase people into the duct tape crowd?


Some of them I'm sure.


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## mikedl361 (Dec 24, 2016)

Is this really true, I'm in Texas does it apply only to certain states or is it something you would find under the NFPA as a code.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Mulder said:


> Are zip ties a "fitting"?
> 
> 334.6 Listing Requirements. Type NM, Type NMC, and
> Type NMS cables and associated fittings shall be listed.


Its in the 2017 NEC in articles 334.30 ( for nm), 330.30 ( for mc), 320.30 ( for ac)


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Here is what 330.30(A) states in the 2017 NEC



> *330.30 Securing and Supporting.*​
> 
> *(A) General. *
> Type MC cable shall be supported and secured
> ...




The bold text is the change.

Chris
​


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

UL Lists cable ties to Product Category ZODZ and the basic standards used to evaluate them are UL 1565 and UL 62275.

In the Guide Information it States in Part;

The investigation of cable ties to ANSI/UL 62275, "Cable Management Systems - Cable Ties for Electrical Installations," generally includes flammability, installation, minimum and maximum operating temperature, minimum installation temperature, and mechanical property considerations. In addition, cable ties may also be investigated for smoke and heat generation, corrosion resistance, and weatherability characteristics as appropriate for the product.
The investigation of fixing devices (cable-tie mounts) to ANSI/UL 62275 generally includes flammability, minimum and maximum operating temperature, and mechanical property considerations. In addition, fixing devices may also be investigated for smoke and heat generation, corrosion resistance, and weatherability characteristics as appropriate for the product.

Chris


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## Peter Goldwing (Sep 23, 2011)

Majewski said:


> Gotta have more jacket on romex enter the enclosure too, see anyone giving a crap? lol


I just looked in the 2017 NEC and jacket has to be 1/4". Just as before


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

The Code proposal to add the requirement for a Listed Cable tie came from NEMA.

Chris


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Peter Goldwing said:


> I just looked in the 2017 NEC and jacket has to be 1/4". Just as before


Nah...


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Majewski said:


> Gotta have more jacket on romex enter the enclosure too, see anyone giving a crap? lol


You are referring to the clarification for Metallic boxes and conduit bodies in the 2017 NEC 314.17(B). The requirement for the NM Sheath to enter the box a minimum of 1/4" for non-metallic boxes in 314.17(C) has been in the code for quite a while.

Chris


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

raider1 said:


> You are referring to the clarification for Metallic boxes and conduit bodies in the 2017 NEC 314.17(B). The requirement for the NM Sheath to enter the box a minimum of 1/4" for non-metallic boxes in 314.17(C) has been in the code for quite a while.
> 
> Chris


Don't you ruin my fun!


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Majewski said:


> Don't you ruin my fun!


Sorry

Chris


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## Peter Goldwing (Sep 23, 2011)

raider1 said:


> You are referring to the clarification for Metallic boxes and conduit bodies in the 2017 NEC 314.17(B). The requirement for the NM Sheath to enter the box a minimum of 1/4" for non-metallic boxes in 314.17(C) has been in the code for quite a while.
> 
> Chris


I know that. Majewski stated that more jacket is required in the box under the 2017 NEC. I looked it up and it doesn't. Show me otherwise.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Peter Goldwing said:


> I know that. Majewski stated that more jacket is required in the box under the 2017 NEC. I looked it up and it doesn't. Show me otherwise.


I was just pointing out the change in the 2017 NEC that clarifies that NM cable used with Metal boxes must have the sheath enter the box a minimum of 1/4" the same as a nonmetallic box. It could have been read that no sheath was necessary to enter a metal box so this clarification would require "More" sheath in a metal box.

Chris


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I can't decide what I would rather the members of the NFPA and CMP get, AIDS or cancer of the d1ck.

Maybe both. Yeah, both.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I can't decide what I would rather the members of the NFPA and CMP get, AIDS or cancer of the d1ck.
> 
> Maybe both. Yeah, both.




You do know that I was a member of CMP 10 for the 2014 and 2017 NEC Code cycles right.

Chris


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

raider1 said:


> You do know that I was a member of CMP 10 for the 2014 and 2017 NEC Code cycles right.
> 
> Chris


We have spoken about this before.

You are complicit. 

"I was just doing my job" is never an excuse.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

HackWork said:


> We have spoken about this before.
> 
> You are complicit.
> 
> "I was just doing my job" is never an excuse.


I am complicit with what?

CMP 10 does not cover Article 330 so this specific change with cable ties was not within our purview.

CMP 10 covers Article 240.

Chris


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

raider1 said:


> I am complicit with what?


The corrupt and fraudulent process that has caused hundreds of millions of dollars to be stolen from the citizens and given to the corporations. 

I am not telling you anything new and you know it.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

HackWork said:


> The corrupt and fraudulent process that has caused hundreds of millions of dollars to be stolen from the citizens and given to the corporations.
> 
> I am not telling you anything new and you know it.


I disagree with your opinion of the NEC Process and will leave it at that.

Chris


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

raider1 said:


> I disagree with your opinion of the NEC Process and will leave it at that.
> 
> Chris


I'm sure every SS soldier disagreed with their critics as well.

You know that you are taking part in something that hurts a huge group of people in order to benefit a few powerful people. And you use the government as your enforcer.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Hax, if you've a _specific_ beef with any given CMP's direction i would encourage you _detail _it to them, not paint the entirety w/same brush here....~CS~


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Someone please tell Steve that he himself has made the same argument about code corruption countless times. Now that Hax is saying it, he's changed his tune?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

RePhase277 said:


> Someone please tell Steve that he himself has made the same argument about code corruption countless times. Now that Hax is saying it, he's changed his tune?


Sometimes it's just surreal, isn't it?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

raider1 said:


> The Code proposal to add the requirement for a Listed Cable tie came from NEMA.
> 
> Chris


Wow, shocking. An organization that represents manufacturers who profit from the sale of electrical products. Who knew? Knock me over with a feather.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> The corrupt and fraudulent process that has caused hundreds of millions of dollars to be stolen from the citizens and given to the corporations.
> 
> I am not telling you anything new and you know it.


The NEC is corrupt enough to me that it's to be disregarded whenever possible. It's no longer a trustworthy document.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

RePhase277 said:


> Someone please tell Steve that he himself has made the same argument about code corruption countless times. Now that Hax is saying it, he's changed his tune?


I'm not vague about it 277

~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Hax, if you've a _specific_ beef with any given CMP's direction i would encourage you _detail _it to them, not paint the entirety w/same brush here....~CS~


I would like to punch you in the taco.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> I'm not vague about it 277
> 
> ~CS~


Vague? Did you read the thread? I am talking about what is going on in this very thread with the tie wraps. Nevermind the other 200 posts I made on the subject talking about everything from AFCI's to neutrals on car charger outlets.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Vague? Did you read the thread? I am talking about what is going on in this very thread with the tie wraps. Nevermind the other 200 posts I made on the subject talking about everything from AFCI's to neutrals on car charger outlets.


Steve has to suck up to Raider, don't you know?


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