# Appliance Garage



## TTime (Jun 20, 2013)

Hey i have a little kitchen job and they have 2-3 appliance garages.
Its a Reno and its 14/3 Circuits. The Plugs need to be powered down
when the doors shut so i have run a 14/3 underneath the cabinet and a 14/3 from there to the counter plug. along with a 18/2 into the appliance garage for a lvt switch.
What have you guys used in the past for relays? and lv Switch
First time having a wire a appliance garage they don't seem to be very 
common.
Links to websites would be great


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Is that a CEC code or local ammendment. I never heard of such a NEC code here.


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2013)

its code CEC pretty sure it would be in NEC as well


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## donselec (May 7, 2011)

14 for a kitchen counter top????
wont fly here


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Yeah #14 is legit in Canada for counter plugs and appliance garage plugs need to be off when the door is shut.

I always wait until after inspection to put the hidden plugs in, so can't help.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

There would be little if any reason to power up an appliance garage.

I have one myself and find it handy to store stuff such as coffee, splenda. etc.

Kill the power there and be done with it.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

GFCI protection must be a PIA and expensive with the 14/3 split receptacle method.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I should design a receptacle w/ an integral xformer and 24 volt contact specifically for use with garage appliances and then buy the NFPA and CEC to make it code.


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## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

What the heck is an appliance garage ?


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

seabee41 said:


> What the heck is an appliance garage ?


It's where you park your appliances... But sometimes people want to keep them in there and power them. CEC requires the receptacle to power down when doors are closed.


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2013)

So your telling me this is only code in Canada seems like a dumb rule to me anyways..
So any suggestions on a good relay and switch to use? Home owners don't care on cost they just want it done right. So cutting in after inspection won't cut it


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## circuitman1 (Mar 14, 2013)

how about a definite purpose contactor with a 24 volt coil?they go up to 50 amps i belive, you can get 1or 2 pole. just need a 120 to 25 volt control transformer put both of them in approved cabinet.:thumbup:


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

circuitman1 said:


> how about a definite purpose contactor with a 24 volt coil?they go up to 50 amps i belive, you can get 1or 2 pole. just need a 120 to 25 volt control transformer put both of them in approved cabinet.:thumbup:


Around here DP contactors are replacement use only as they are not UL listed. Not sure what CEC rules are though.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

I couldn't find a limit switch for a reasonable price that could handle the load, so I did what you are doing. The limit switch was an industrial limit with a metal whisker. The metal whisker can be bent so the door hits it, which gets around shimming the switch. I used a general purpose contactor.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

Try a RIB 02BDC by functional devices.com pair with a magnetic door switch like the alarm guys use http://www.grisk.com/surface_mount/100.html


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## circuitman1 (Mar 14, 2013)

Mulder said:


> Around here DP contactors are replacement use only as they are not UL listed. Not sure what CEC rules are though.


 i just bought a square d for my a/c it was ul listed & csa i belive.:001_huh:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I think we Americans need a pic of the aforementioned "appliance garage" just for kicks.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

Jlarson said:


> I think we Americans need a pic of the aforementioned "appliance garage" just for kicks.


There are too many styles. I googled "appliance garage" for images and there are lots to choose from.

I can't believe you guys leave your appliances laying around all over the place.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TTime said:


> its code CEC pretty sure it would be in NEC as well


Nope


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmalone said:


> Try a RIB 02BDC by functional devices.com pair with a magnetic door switch like the alarm guys use http://www.grisk.com/surface_mount/100.html


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

xlink said:


> I can't believe you guys leave your appliances laying around all over the place.


I can't believe you guys have to put a door switch on appliance garage. 


Do they make your regular car garage door shut off your car if the door is closed?:laughing:


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Do they make your regular car garage door shut off your car if the door is closed?:laughing:


There is kind of a death penalty for not turning your car off.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

xlink said:


> There is kind of a death penalty for not turning your car off.


Apparently not nearly as risky as leaving power to a blender in a cabinet. :laughing:


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Apparently not nearly as risky as leaving power to a blender in a cabinet. :laughing:


coffee makers before they had automatic shut-offs.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

xlink said:


> coffee makers before they had automatic shut-offs.


Yeah ........ so people can be trusted not to run their car inside but cant be trusted to turn off their coffee pot?

Just wondering if we really want to protect them from themselves. :laughing:


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Yeah ........ so people can be trusted not to run their car inside but cant be trusted to turn off their coffee pot?
> 
> Just wondering if we really want to protect them from themselves. :laughing:


We need to protect them from crappy appliances that start on fire.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Just wondering if we really want to protect them from themselves.


Hey! Wait a minute... Now, what is your opinion of all the safety rules that protect workers from stupid mistakes?


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

Seems awfully foolish to me to switch countertop outlets... I have used the relay / door switch setup to actuate the low voltage lights in the appliance garages, in-cabinet lighting in dark pantry spaces, exhaust fans, bedroom closet lights, etc but never an outlet. What happens when the customer gets too reliant on the "safety" feature? Your contactor fails and they have an unsafe situation...


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

electricmalone said:


> What happens when the customer gets too reliant on the "safety" feature? Your contactor fails and they have an unsafe situation...


You could say the same thing about flashing lights at railway crossings.


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## electricmalone (Feb 21, 2013)

xlink said:


> You could say the same thing about flashing lights at railway crossings.


I do. I learned in preschool to look both ways before crossing the road, look both ways at railroad crossings then look again, and later I learned to never trust something mechanical, they fail from time to time.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

xlink said:


> We need to protect them from crappy appliances that start on fire.


Seems like better appliance standards would make more sense. :jester:



xlink said:


> Hey! Wait a minute... Now, what is your opinion of all the safety rules that protect workers from stupid mistakes?


It depends, the ones protecting me from stupid workers? I am all for those ones. Or the ones protecting stupid workers from themselves? I am not so supportive of those ones.  



xlink said:


> You could say the same thing about flashing lights at railway crossings.


Yet I can still drive my car into the garage and shut the door. We need an electrical code rule requiring that a door position switch is connected to the garage door that can send a signal to shut down the engine of the car, weed whacker, lawn mower, snow blower, etc. if the door is not open. :jester:


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## pistol pete (Jul 4, 2011)

How bout a co2 detector that opens the garage doors when it goes off


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## chris.b (Jan 28, 2013)

Jlarson said:


> I think we Americans need a pic of the aforementioned "appliance garage" just for kicks.


Have you ever seen a bread box on the counter? I would think it looks like that.


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## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

xlink said:


> There are too many styles. I googled "appliance garage" for images and there are lots to choose from.
> 
> I can't believe you guys leave your appliances laying around all over the place.


We put them where needed for easy of use, most people can make it look very nice as well. I couldnt imagine wasting a whole closet or cabinet on coffee makers ect I have important things to put in cabinets and closets...


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Mine... I guess you can make your counters look less cluttered. Note the appliances live outside of the garage.










Here she is doing what all garages do... store lots of stuff...










Tassimo is building me a coffee. If you don't have one and like coffee... well it doesn't get any better.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Stupid rule!


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I haven't seen a appliance garage for a long time. It was the thing a number of years ago but I think they might be out of style. Never heard of switching the receptacles!!! What about disposal and dishwasher recepts? Do they have to be powered down when the door is shut??? Must be a Canadian thing eh? Appliance garages take up too much space IMHO.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

wendon said:


> What about disposal and dishwasher recepts? Do they have to be powered down when the door is shut??? Must be a Canadian thing eh? Appliance garages take up too much space IMHO.


Canadians like big wide open kitchens, much like our country. But we also want vast and barren counter tops, also much like our country. 



> 26-710
> (h) a receptacle shall not be placed in a cupboard, cabinet, or similar enclosure, except where the receptacle is
> (i) an integral part of a factory-built enclosure;
> (ii) provided for use with a specific type of appliance that is suitable for installation within the enclosure;
> ...


Nope and nope!


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Well that escalated quickly. :laughing:


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

I just don't put any receptacles in them. Tell the customer no. 

The reason for de-energizing, is when the homeowner is putting the appliance back in, they could accidentally turn it or another on. Th door is closed and heat could build up and a fire could be the result.
We had a toaster oven turn on like that ( sitting out on the counter).
Last thing I ever bought at WallMart


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

wcord said:


> I just don't put any receptacles in them. Tell the customer no.


:laughing:

_OK, you are no longer needed, I will hire an electrician that will do what I ask. 
_


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

I'll bet it gets old waking up to the flashing LED clock every morning when you go for for coffee. Why not just put a sensor in the house that shuts every non essential outlet and equipment down when you go to sleep or leave the house?


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Service Call said:


> I'll bet it gets old waking up to the flashing LED clock every morning when you go for for coffee.


Every Canadian goes to Timmy Ho's for coffee in the morning. Although some secretly fill their timmy's cup with Starbucks. SHHHHH!

Most people don't even have an outlet in their appliance garage. They just fill it with hoarder crap.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Well that escalated quickly. :laughing:


 What I've learned from this thread is that if you use an appliance garage, you will get hit by a train.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> What I've learned from this thread is that if you use an appliance garage, you will get hit by a train.


This public service announcement brought to you by Electrician Talk and Canada. :laughing:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I was doing work in a house a couple weeks ago, and the woman had an appliance garage in her kitchen that had a heavy duty shelf that slid out from the bottom. She kept her Cuisinart Mix Master in there, and when she wants to use it, she opens the door, and slides the whole thing right out so she doesn't have to lift it. Pretty fricken cool.


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## Mrtrolls (Jul 3, 2013)

In Canada, They only want you to switch appliances hidden in cabinets so you can see the smoke in the case of a fire, with the cabinet door closed by the time it reaches a smoke detector theres a good chance half your kitchen is burnt and it os too late. I know most of this stuff is common sense (like not turning on your toaster and putting it away) but the fact they put that in the code book means there was probably more than a few accidents lol


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm gonna be pissed when I run into an inspector that strictly enforces that rule. I know they're out there.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

common sense? what the hell is that?


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