# Cable pass BIG PIPE



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Can't help you, but I'm pretty sure 8" conduit isn't even NEC compliant.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Just a quick check of some manufacturer websites (Prime, Cantex, J-M) doesn't even list anything larger than 6" PVC Sch 40. 

Nor is anything larger than that NEC recognized.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Just a quick check of some manufacturer websites (Prime, Cantex, J-M) doesn't even list anything larger than 6" PVC Sch 40.
> 
> Nor is anything larger than that NEC recognized.


I have a feeling that it's not sch40, but maybe DB-_something_ P&C duct.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I have a feeling that it's not sch40, but maybe DB-_something_ P&C duct.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But you still run afoul of the NEC. We definitely need more info here.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

From Carlon's FAQ: 

I couldn't find any information on 8" P&C Duct Type EB or DB in your on-line
information. The Carlon catalog we have on the shelf does show Type EB. Do
you still make 8"?
The only 8" duct that we offer is the 8" Schedule 40 non-UL listed conduit in 10 or
20 ft lengths. Part numbers are 59618 followed by -010 for a 10 ft length or -020
for a 20 ft length. Furthermore, this can be concrete encased.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Can't help you, but I'm pretty sure 8" conduit isn't even NEC compliant.



MD this is for com cables inside a big theater under the stage stuff for TV/radio Sat company hook up stuff .

Electrical engineer calls out 8 inch conduit . not EB duct


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

piperunner said:


> MD this is for com cables inside a big theater under the stage stuff for TV/radio Sat company hook up stuff .
> 
> Electrical engineer calls out 8 inch conduit . not EB duct


Interesting that PVC is spec'd in a place of assembly. Further interesting that he's specifying that you use a noncompliant conduit size, which will be non-UL listed no matter where you get it, and has not been investigated for propagation of toxic smoke. I'd RFI him, and state clearly that what is spec'd doesn't exist, and you'd like to propose two runs of 4", and state concern over the use of PVC conduit in a place of assembly.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Perhaps this engineer needs to look at an NEC. I'm thinking something like 36 inch cable tray. We are required to stay within NEC stanadards in most places....Most of the places I have been out side of NEC the NESC applied, or it was a military install that everyone under the sun, who was of authority, had lloked at it prior to installation.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Interesting that PVC is spec'd in a place of assembly. Further interesting that he's specifying that you use a noncompliant conduit size, which will be non-UL listed no matter where you get it, and has not been investigated for propagation of toxic smoke. I'd RFI him, and state clearly that what is spec'd doesn't exist, and you'd like to propose two runs of 4", and state concern over the use of PVC conduit in a place of assembly.



Well listen its not above grade or finish floor rigid 90 sweeps which will be 7 feet high elbows the pvc is below finish floor elevation .

In the other post below Md,s/ Rock its not power its sat com TV and radio station stuff it can not be cable tray its under ground conduit and the engineer is not nuts hes correct .

Now what iam asking is has anyone installed this or what do you know about it .

Its going in underground its on the drawns its not wrong to install this and it will be done so get off the code stuff .

What we need is info on 8 inch sch 40 pvc and its application to install this thats what were asking .

Forget the NEC code .


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

piperunner said:


> Forget the NEC code .


I'm not sure how you can. Article 300 still applies to the comm installations. Apparently, Carlon makes the stuff. Knock yourself out.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

piperunner said:


> Well listen its not above grade or finish floor rigid 90 sweeps which will be 7 feet high elbows the pvc is below finish floor elevation .
> 
> In the other post below Md,s/ Rock its not power its sat com TV and radio station stuff it can not be cable tray its under ground conduit and the engineer is not nuts hes correct .
> 
> ...


 
Done a lot of weird electrical stuff for the military, they were the AHJ because they are the military. Curious as to the end story on this? Also curious as to who signs off on it? Follow up when done, would be cool.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I'm not sure how you can. Article 300 still applies to the comm installations. Apparently, Carlon makes the stuff. Knock yourself out.


Here is the PDF in case anyone cares. http://www.primeconduit.com/Brochures/2011/Sched_4080_2011.pdf

It's all the way down at the bottom and it's listed as non-UL utility product. 

There is no UL listed Sch 40 above 6".


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Rockyd said:


> Done a lot of weird electrical stuff for the military, they were the AHJ because they are the military. Curious as to the end story on this? Also curious as to who signs off on it? Follow up when done, would be cool.



Well you will see photos of this job when it starts all my underground coming up in a few months plus ill make a special photo layout just for the 8 inch pvc .

But its nothing special its just a big theater were doing and this is for satellite cams radio com stuff big cables company route to stage and to trucks outside NBC ABC CBS TV RADIO JUNK.

We run pvc only underground we can not stub up but only in rigid conduit anything sound or sat above finish floor is rigid conduit .

So yes i will not forget to post the out come .

Were doing the entire project not just the 8 inch the whole project so lots of photos coming Rock


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

piperunner said:


> Well you will see photos of this job when it starts all my underground coming up in a few months plus ill make a special photo layout just for the 8 inch pvc .
> 
> But its nothing special its just a big theater were doing and this is for satellite cams radio com stuff big cables company route to stage and to trucks outside NBC ABC CBS TV RADIO JUNK.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it will be a fun job. If you're using non-UL listed stuff anyhow, maybe use sewer pipe for cost savings, and just buy the sweep ells.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

piperunner said:


> We run pvc only underground we can not stub up but only in rigid conduit anything sound or sat above finish floor is rigid conduit .


Have you found a source for 8" RMC yet?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Have you found a source for 8" RMC yet?


I generally look to Picoma for strange RMC stuff, but they stop at 6" too. I'm betting they'd make some 8" ones if you asked.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I generally look to Picoma for strange RMC stuff, but they stop at 6" too. I'm betting they'd make some 8" ones if you asked.



So it sounds like this job requires non-UL conduit and unavailable RMC. Me thinks sourcing the material and lead time are going to be critical here.


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## coolright (Sep 29, 2009)

I've worked in allot of theatres that we would run remote cables to trucks for video and Sat. I'm guessing this is for temp wiring, when video or sat trucks are on site. Some of those connects for the multi cables get large. Ends on some of these cables can/would be in the 4 inch diameter range, and up to 8 to 10 inches long. At times I would of given anything for a 8" or larger pipe to pull this stuff.

Could be for the multi cables for lighting for stage shows. As temp cable these are in the 2 inch diameter and we would pull 8 to 12 to most areas.

Do they want threaded ends at both ends, with a threaded cap also?


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

coolright said:


> I've worked in allot of theatres that we would run remote cables to trucks for video and Sat. I'm guessing this is for temp wiring, when video or sat trucks are on site. Some of those connects for the multi cables get large. Ends on some of these cables can/would be in the 4 inch diameter range, and up to 8 to 10 inches long. At times I would of given anything for a 8" or larger pipe to pull this stuff.
> 
> Could be for the multi cables for lighting for stage shows. As temp cable these are in the 2 inch diameter and we would pull 8 to 12 to most areas.
> 
> Do they want threaded ends at both ends, with a threaded cap also?



That is what this is for like i said in the post .

And yes its 8 inch 10 runs of 8 inch conduit its a brand new theater .

ran 6 inch many times over the years lots 4 inch but never 8 inch .


Yes yes and yes


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

piperunner said:


> Forget the NEC code .


Forget surfing and guns. :laughing:




> *352.20 Size.
> 
> (A) Minimum.* PVC conduit smaller than metric designator
> 16 (trade size 1⁄2) shall not be used.
> ...





> *344.20 Size.
> (A) Minimum. *RMC smaller than metric designator 16
> (trade size 1⁄2) shall not be used.
> _
> ...





> *342.20 Size.
> (A) Minimum.* IMC smaller than metric designator 16
> (trade size 1⁄2) shall not be used.
> 
> ...





> *353.20 Size.
> (A) Minimum. *HDPE conduit smaller than metric designator
> 16 (trade size 1⁄2) shall not be used.
> 
> ...





> *358.20 Size.
> (A) Minimum.* EMT smaller than metric designator 16
> (trade size 1⁄2) shall not be used.
> 
> ...


I might have missed one or two.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> So it sounds like this job requires non-UL conduit and unavailable RMC. Me thinks sourcing the material and lead time are going to be critical here.


There is always plumbing pipe and gray spray paint. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Forget surfing and guns. :laughing:


I hate to post a "sky is falling" type of thing, but what if this non-UL conduit does indeed melt down or catch fire..in a place of assembly no less. Yeah, I know it's way underground and probably not an issue, but still.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I hate to post a "sky is falling" type of thing, but what if this non-UL conduit does indeed melt down or catch fire..in a place of assembly no less. Yeah, I know it's way underground and probably not an issue, but still.


As unlikely as that is ..... JBL had to pay out on the Station nightclub fire because they had JBL speakers in there. :blink:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> As unlikely as that is ..... JBL had to pay out on the Station nightclub fire because they had JBL speakers in there. :blink:



Yup, as did Home Depot, Budweiser and loads of other companies with deep pockets that had nothing to do with the fire.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I just thought of something. If this is only going to be a sleeve for temporary cables, is an NEC compliant raceway even necessary? Could you actually use sewer pipe as Marc suggested?


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I just thought of something. If this is only going to be a sleeve for temporary cables, is an NEC compliant raceway even necessary? Could you actually use sewer pipe as Marc suggested?


I agree with you on this one...I'm thinking an NEC compliant raceway isn't mandatory either. 

In a lot of my cinemas we have spec'd (and had no issues with AHJ or Fire marshalls flagging) an ordinary 4" PVC drainpipe with cleanout plugs on each end used as a cable pass-thru for sound system alignment or temp show use. 

I think this is a similar situation.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I think if the cables are for electric power and lighting installations the NEC applies.




> *
> 590.1 Scope.* The provisions of this article apply to temporary
> electric power and lighting installations.





> *590.2 All Wiring Installations.
> 
> (A) Other Articles. *Except as specifically modified in this
> article, all other requirements of this Code for permanent
> ...


But of course you can't run cords in raceways anyway. :no:




> *400.8 Uses Not Permitted.* Unless specifically permitted
> in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the
> following:
> 
> ...



OTH if these cables are for something other than power and lighting installations maybe you could I don't know. 

Sounds like they need a floor trench that opens so you can drop cables into it.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Thank you NEC guru. :notworthy: 

Without knowing the details, I'll go out on a limb and speculate it's all flexible cords of some type and they likely carry power too. Don't the equipment vehicles they park outside get their power from the venue? 

But what do I know..I'm just a troll and a hack.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> But what do I know..I'm just a troll and a hack.


You forgot dateless, pale and unpretty. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> You forgot dateless, pale and unpretty. :laughing:



Yeah yeah yeah.....I know.


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## qckrun (May 18, 2009)

Biggest conduit I've ran is 6" PVC Sch. 40/80, 6" RGS conduit and 6" PVC Coated RGS conduit.

All a big pain the ass, and I would never want to install 8" PVC or RGS...


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

I've ran a couple of thousand feet of 6" stainless steel conduit in a plant once. Mostly on racks on the ground.

6" gal is a pain in the ass! That's where I learned alot if my rigging from doing big pipe like that. That's the fun stuff if you ask me though!


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## freeagnt54 (Aug 6, 2008)

Ask kaboler he's done pretty much everything.


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## CBrown2418 (Jun 22, 2011)

I have run some 8" PVC before and as far as pushing it together is a pain we used a bobcat to push together for a good seal. You just can't do it by hand. But I also wasn't putting cables through it either


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

what's interesting, at least where I am from, no PVC is allowed in commerical buildings, *as per the plumbing codes*. and the electricians can use it as they please.

So the plumbers are snapping their cast iron pipes, and using no hub clamps, and the electricians are laying pvc under ground for main services.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

noarcflash said:


> what's interesting, at least where I am from, no PVC is allowed in commerical buildings, *as per the plumbing codes*. and the electricians can use it as they please.
> 
> So the plumbers are snapping their cast iron pipes, and using no hub clamps, and the electricians are laying pvc under ground for main services.


You must be from Massachusetts.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

noarcflash said:


> what's interesting, at least where I am from, no PVC is allowed in commerical buildings, *as per the plumbing codes*. and the electricians can use it as they please.
> 
> So the plumbers are snapping their cast iron pipes, and using no hub clamps, and the electricians are laying pvc under ground for main services.


Well its not plumbing pipe its Pvc sch 40 conduit and its electrical conduit as shown plus were running this underground it does not pass through the slab .

We dont run pvc inside or above a slab .

The company makes any electrical conduit any size up to 24 inches if you need that size .

Its costume made to your specs.

When we stub up its into a brass box in the floor .


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I remember doing something like this a while back but they called it a "tunnel" with the argument that the largest size raceway is 6" so some gray area could be exploited.


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