# What is this White Goo?



## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I know, the title sounds interesting, but not so much LOL

I have contamination on a 1200 amp 600 volt service entrance...

Water leaking from the XFmr into the service entrance. Looks like someone tried the spray foam option with a failure.

I would say the white goo is calcium from the concrete, but it is concentrated only in the corner and around the copper ground conductor.

It is also directly below the conduit entry, so I was wondering it it was some wire lube that has been washing down the conduit over the years, but if that is the case, it should not be eating the copper wire and buss. It has the consistency of oatmeal, so it is wet and lumpy and does not seem to be a by product of the sprayfoam.

I want to be able to neutralize this before we make any repairs.

Anybody have any thoughts?





















Cheers
John


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

what kind of conduit ?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I could not tell, but I expect DBII.

Cheers
John


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

idk what that is ...
can you see the other end of it?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Yes the other end is in the transformer vault.









Cheers
John


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

so im guessing no clues there ?

could it be dish washing soap instead of lube ?
i have used that in a pinch


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I don't think dishwashing soap would eat the copper lug connection, but who knows, that is why I am asking the smart people on here!

Cheers
John


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Navyguy said:


> and does not seem to be a by product of the sprayfoam.


I'm not saying it is, but how did you come to that assumption?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

dish soap will turn copper green, im not sure about eat it or the concrete
if there seems to be nothing in the conduit except the foam ?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

oldsparky52 said:


> I'm not saying it is, but how did you come to that assumption?


The foam to me seems to be separate from this and I did not se the white goo inside or seeping from the foam. But you are right, it could be related, seems like a lot more white goo then spray foam though...

Cheers
John


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Someone, Greenlee?, made a white lube a while back.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

It looks like there is significant corrosion on that enclosure where the white stuff seems to be dripping down. It almost looks like the spray foam didn't work and someone tried something else that may be more corrosive than the spray foam?

What does that bare copper conductor go to? Pass through the bottom to a ground rod or building steel or ????


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

joe-nwt said:


> Someone, Greenlee?, made a white lube a while back.


ideal still does, but im sure its not corrosive
or you couldnt use it in rigid


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## Mobius87 (May 20, 2019)

This is called efflorescence. Basically it is crystalized salt, I see it often in dirt basements around here.

The water absorbed salts from the soil/concrete, leaked inside the enclosure and evaporated, leaving the minerals behind.


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## Mobius87 (May 20, 2019)

You can usually just wash it off with water. Make sure you soak up all the excess water used to wash it off, or it may just appear again.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Maybe try some sealant at the vault end. I’ve seen this advertised but never tried it myself:









Polywater® FST™ Foam Duct Sealant | Electrical Sealant


Polywater's FST Foam Duct Sealant has a track record for providing durable and reliable protection in the toughest environments. Find out more and get a quote.



www.polywater.com


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

oldsparky52 said:


> It looks like there is significant corrosion on that enclosure where the white stuff seems to be dripping down. It almost looks like the spray foam didn't work and someone tried something else that may be more corrosive than the spray foam?
> 
> What does that bare copper conductor go to? Pass through the bottom to a ground rod or building steel or ????


I think it is supposed to go to the copper buss in the bottom of the cabinet that you can see on the other side, but the way it is now, the cable is just floating there and the buss or whatever connector / lug does not seem long enough to connect it.













Cheers
John


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Maybe try some sealant at the vault end. I’ve seen this advertised but never tried it myself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I am familiar with this protect and already have talked to the utility about sealing their end of the vault.

Cheers
John


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Mobius87 said:


> This is called efflorescence. Basically it is crystalized salt, I see it often in dirt basements around here.
> 
> The water absorbed salts from the soil/concrete, leaked inside the enclosure and evaporated, leaving the minerals behind.





Mobius87 said:


> You can usually just wash it off with water. Make sure you soak up all the excess water used to wash it off, or it may just appear again.


I was thinking that at first, but the consistency of oatmeal with no feeling of "crystals" at all leads me to think something different.

I was considering using some baking soda, like you do on batteries to see if it makes a difference. If this is the case, I am not sure where the salt is coming from; the vault has a gravel pit and it appears to be coming from the conduit.

Cheers

John


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

If I had to guess I would say;
Conduit leaked causing the rust and basic corrasion.
Someone spray foamed it to try and fix. 
Someone else tried to fix it when spray foam failed and the conduit was full of water due to foam.
Whatever they used the second time just mixed with water and flowed into enclosure as "oatmeal".


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

You are correct, it's definitely White Goo


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## CMP (Oct 30, 2019)

My guess would be a temperature and pressure differential between the outdoor vault enclosure and the indoor gear enclosure. Condensing moisture inside the conduits getting pulled into the gear end by the pressure differential or conduit slope. As long as the atmospheric moisture continues to flow, the byproducts of corrosion stay moist and don’t harden into crystals.

its a common problem where there is a difference of pressure and temperature between endpoints. Wind pressure differential, heat differential, condensing temperatures, building negative pressure differential.


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## Mobius87 (May 20, 2019)

Navyguy said:


> I was thinking that at first, but the consistency of oatmeal with no feeling of "crystals" at all leads me to think something different.
> 
> I was considering using some baking soda, like you do on batteries to see if it makes a difference. If this is the case, I am not sure where the salt is coming from; the vault has a gravel pit and it appears to be coming from the conduit.
> 
> ...


We're not talking table salt (sodium chloride), but rather other types of mineral salts like potassium carbonate, calcium carbonate, or maybe calcium chloride. All three could be found in the gravel and dirt around the vault, or could have leached out of the concrete of the vault itself as the water passed through it before entering the conduit.

When the water evaporated, the minerals get left behind and effloresce just like what you're seeing.

Potassium carbonate should dissolve in water, baking soda may help to neutralize it as it is slightly acidic.

Calcium carbonate doesn't dissolve in water as well, you may need to use club soda if that is the case.

Calcium chloride should also easily dissolve in water.

In all cases, you will want to dry the area quickly to prevent reoccurrence.


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## Mobius87 (May 20, 2019)

Looking at the photos again, my guess would be Potassium carbonate due to the corrosion, as it is slightly acidic.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I guess we are going to get the stuff tested... the owner wants to be sure what he is dealing with. Good on them! It is nice to work with people that actually give AF.

Cheers
John


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## Mobius87 (May 20, 2019)

Navyguy said:


> I guess we are going to get the stuff tested... the owner wants to be sure what he is dealing with. Good on them! It is nice to work with people that actually give AF.
> 
> Cheers
> John


Post back when you get the results, I'm curious to know what it ends of being.

Sent from my SM-G991W using Tapatalk


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Very likely an accellerator was used, either calcium chloride, or a non-chloride [NCA]. In northern climes, such as Canada, a heavy dosage of %5 may have been used to "light off" a pad placed in winter.




Mobius87 said:


> We're not talking table salt (sodium chloride), but rather other types of mineral salts like potassium carbonate, calcium carbonate, or maybe calcium chloride. All three could be found in the gravel and dirt around the vault, or could have leached out of the concrete of the vault itself as the water passed through it before entering the conduit.
> 
> When the water evaporated, the minerals get left behind and effloresce just like what you're seeing.
> 
> ...


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

460 Delta said:


> Very likely an accellerator was used, either calcium chloride, or a non-chloride [NCA]. In northern climes, such as Canada, a heavy dosage of %5 may have been used to "light off" a pad placed in winter.


you are supposed to tell them you are talking about the concrete when it was poured, and that could be why those chemicals are present


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Efflorescence: That Annoying White Stuff on Masonry Walls (kellerengineering.com)


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Almost Retired said:


> you are supposed to tell them you are talking about the concrete when it was poured, and that could be why those chemicals are present


I figured from the context they would understand what I meant, but yeah you’re right.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

460 Delta said:


> I figured from the context they would understand what I meant, but yeah you’re right.


i caught it immediately cause i know your a concrete plant guy
but then i realized many dont know that

you might say "fify" lol


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I think everything in the vault is prefab. I am not aware of any of this stuff being poured on site, but certainly could be something from the plant. The only thing that might be poured on site, if there is one would be the footing to sit the vault on.

Cheers
John


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

Ghostbuster Schmoo. Or at least that's what I call the ominous looking deposits that leach out of the walls around the plant.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Navyguy said:


> I think everything in the vault is prefab. I am not aware of any of this stuff being poured on site, but certainly could be something from the plant. The only thing that might be poured on site, if there is one would be the footing to sit the vault on.
> 
> Cheers
> John


Concrete encased duct bank ?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Slay301 said:


> Concrete encased duct bank ?


I don't know. I don't think so since it is only 600 volts.

Cheers
John


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Navyguy said:


> I don't know. I don't think so since it is only 600 volts.
> 
> Cheers
> John


Doing a job now that’s 600 volt rated with
It


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