# Todays morning project



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Curious about what process you use to mask the dataplates and manufacturer's stickers?


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Curious about what process you use to mask the dataplates and manufacturer's stickers?


Good question. If they are aluminum plates riveted to the body I will drill the rivets out and after painting I will re-attach the plate using small tek screws.

If they are the sticker type like these were I mask them off with masking tape and cut around the outside of the sticker carefully. I also mask the shaft off and any grease fittings and then spray away.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

what freaking thread did I ask you about how you got into motor repair?
seems like a great job for a future old guy like myself with worn out/wearing out legs and such.


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> what freaking thread did I ask you about how you got into motor repair?
> seems like a great job for a future old guy like myself with worn out/wearing out legs and such.



UMM the thread where the subject of the growler came up.
It was in vintage electrical and I think it was called Cleaning out dads stuff.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

USEM, made by Emerson. There are quite a few of those around here.

I always get a kick out of people who install an ODP (open drip proof) motor in a dusty greasy environment. 

I've seen the 'smoke' actually be dust too. Sometimes the stators get so clogged up with dust that they actually do smoke!

You're right though, a lot of times a couple of $20 bearings can save hundreds for a new motor.

Rob


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Surprised that someone had a standard 15 HP motor serviced. In industry from what I have seen a motor like that would be trashed. When I worked in Texas I sent a 18 month 50 HP old Reliance to the motor shop for bearings . It never did come back they said it was not worth fixing. I wanted it as a spare.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I usually don't send motors to the shop if it's just bearings. They're rather easy to replace, and if everything else checks out........

Rob


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Surprised that someone had a standard 15 HP motor serviced. In industry from what I have seen a motor like that would be trashed. When I worked in Texas I sent a 18 month 50 HP old Reliance to the motor shop for bearings . It never did come back they said it was not worth fixing. I wanted it as a spare.



I would have words with that motor shop.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> I would have words with that motor shop.


 

Wonder who they sold that motor to....:whistling2:


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

On the same thread: some suppliers used to sell solid state phase protectors, about the size of a cigarette pack. They had a stick-on back, so they could be mounted easily. Does any one remember what company made them,and are they still available ??


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

Electric Al said:


> On the same thread: some suppliers used to sell solid state phase protectors, about the size of a cigarette pack. They had a stick-on back, so they could be mounted easily. Does any one remember what company made them,and are they still available ??


I know what you mean, I used to Install them on RTU's.

They still make them, but I forget the name. I think we used to get them from United Refrigeration.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

The last few I installed were made by SSAC. They were the plug-in type that used an octal relay socket.

Rob


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

About the Reliance motor that was a in plant motor shop and I was a contractor. 
They tell us now that unless a motor is a special motor or very old motor with a nonstandard frame anything 50 HP and now maybe as high as 75 HP is not worth having rewound or repaired.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> About the Reliance motor that was a in plant motor shop and I was a contractor.
> They tell us now that unless a motor is a special motor or very old motor with a nonstandard frame anything 50 HP and now maybe as high as 75 HP is not worth having rewound or repaired.


That is true. There was a time when motor shops especially here in the south with the textile plants, they rewound everything that came in the door. Everything.
Now every manufacturer has a metric line along with their NEMA lines, so we replace much more now than ever.
Some of the bigger shops in my area actually sub out small motors as they do not want to mess with them. I know one shop that will not work on anything under 100 HP.
The days of rewinding will never be the same. Motor prices are better than they were years ago. It just makes sense to not repair when you can replace at a lower cost.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

How much would the OP's motor be brand new? How much did you charge to rebuild it? Customer might have made out pretty good on that.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> How much would the OP's motor be brand new? How much did you charge to rebuild it? Customer might have made out pretty good on that.


I do not have the motor speed so here's an approximate price for this ODP motor if you had to buy a new one.

2 pole - $460.00
4 pole - $461.00
6 pole - $600.00
8 pole - $780.00


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## Mr.C (Dec 20, 2009)

The name of the the solid state motor protector is a "777 motorsaver" we call them triple sevens and they work great. I highly recomend them they are super easy to configue and you can get them for anything. At our place if its under 50hp we toss them.


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

Mr.C said:


> The name of the the solid state motor protector is a "777 motorsaver" we call them triple sevens and they work great. I highly recomend them they are super easy to configue and you can get them for anything. At our place if its under 50hp we toss them.


 Thanks!!


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Mr.C said:


> At our place if its under 50hp we toss them.


If it needs to be re-wound I am sure but if it has bad bearings I would hope you would simply replace the bearing(s).


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## Mr.C (Dec 20, 2009)

Electric AL, if you need help picking one out or programming one get ahold of me, symcom makes a couple different models and you can get them as simple as just voltage phase loss and level, to one with ct's in them that monitor everything from ground faults , current and voltage unballances, under and over currents/ voltages , blah blah blah. You can get them for 600v and under medium and high voltage applications as well. Anyways I use these all the time and they are great. Also Bob as far as bearings go nope in the garbage under 50hp for any reason even if they just look at me funny. We got a NDT department (non destructive testing) that go around with vibration annalysis metering equip trying to figure out if bearings are going bad but under 50 forget actually I dont think I ever saw anything under 100hp go out of here. Here is a bearing out of motor that made it out to be rebuilt.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Mr.C said:


> Also Bob as far as bearings go nope in the garbage under 50hp for any reason even if they just look at me funny.


That is absolutely ridiculous.


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## Mr.C (Dec 20, 2009)

I got a picture of a worn out bearing that I would like to show you but how do you post pictures on here?


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## Mr.C (Dec 20, 2009)

Check out this bearing this came out of a US Motor to.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I cannot tell much from that picture, it is kind of small.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> I cannot tell much from that picture, it is kind of small.


Bob, That is the one roller for a roller bearing. See how it's flat on symmetric sides and was just rubbing and not turning.
Actually that roller came from a very large bearing. :thumbsup:


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## Mr.C (Dec 20, 2009)

Sorry your right its one of the rollers that came out of the bearing.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Maybe I'm not the brightest cat around, buy I'm missing something here. How does a failed bearing justify throwing out a motor? Replace the bearing and carry on.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Bob, That is the one roller for a roller bearing. See how it's flat on symmetric sides and was just rubbing and not turning.
> Actually that roller came from a very large bearing. :thumbsup:


Yeah that was what I thought it was, but considering we were talking about motors 50 HP or less I could not fathom why he would post it. :huh:


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Just about anyone with reasonable mechanical experience can replace bearings in a motor. Especially the smaller ones that use sealed bearings. I can't even think of how many times I've done it, and taught others how easy it is.

The extent of the bearing failure makes a difference though. If the races are damaged, it's not worth repairing. If the bearing has failed to the point that the rotor has hit the stator, there's no hope at all. 

I agree, around here 50HP is about the breaking point of rewind vs. replace. It wasn't all that long ago that it was 5 or 10HP. 

Rob

P.S. Vibration analysis can be a very useful tool to predict bearing replacement/failure; not just motors, but just about any rotating equipment.


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## Mr.C (Dec 20, 2009)

I agree that its seems wasteful to throw away a motor because it has bad bearings when they could easily be replaced, it's amazing how the industry has changed. We used to be producers of everything now even the few industries we have left are more like consumers. Bob I saw your pictures and recognize your fine craftmanship, I hope you did'nt take my post the wrong way for I was only trying to share the view from my vantage point in the industry I am in. I really enjoyed your post its like watching somebody restore a muscle car to all cherry, Nice Work!


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## Electric Al (Mar 13, 2010)

Mr.C said:


> Electric AL, if you need help picking one out or programming one get ahold of me, symcom makes a couple different models and you can get them as simple as just voltage phase loss and level, to one with ct's in them that monitor everything from ground faults , current and voltage unballances, under and over currents/ voltages , blah blah blah. You can get them for 600v and under medium and high voltage applications as well. Anyways I use these all the time and they are great. Also Bob as far as bearings go nope in the garbage under 50hp for any reason even if they just look at me funny. We got a NDT department (non destructive testing) that go around with vibration annalysis metering equip trying to figure out if bearings are going bad but under 50 forget actually I dont think I ever saw anything under 100hp go out of here. Here is a bearing out of motor that made it out to be rebuilt.


 Thanks Mr.C. I found the info. Regarding the phase protector. It is made by CONTROLAB INC. D.S.P. 1 L. I installed some a few years ago. Never had a problem.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

IMO all motors can be checked by the first user regardless of size. The problem is when you send it in for repair. Its very common for bearing replacement, cleaning and test of the motor by a motor shop to exceed cost of a new motor.
The main reason for this is due to the cost of new motors. Many are built overseas and like everything else they can do it for much less than we can. China is a giant in the motor industry.

Rob is correct that many of these simple issues can be addressed at the end user level. Of course one would need to know what they are doing before attempting any repairs on motors. Motor shops use machinists for measuring and repairing the journals and end bells. Then you need a tolerance requirement to make sure you are consistent.


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