# Latest inspection



## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Looks like you have 210.63 and 210.70(a)(3) covered.

What was his answer on the code?

i would say, "what if anything ever installed breaks?"

Was this Sisson?:jester: :laughing: just kidding Bob.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Doesn't the light need to be switched where you enter the attic?

BTW, they also make thosething out of plastic.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

3xdad said:


> Looks like you have 210.63 and 210.70(a)(3) covered.
> 
> What was his answer on the code?
> 
> ...


Had him on the phone with my customer standing there beside him. My customer just told me that the inspector told him, "you know, Ron might be right about that," Of course I'm right because I KNOW THE CODE. Just because you've had your license since 1962 does not mean you are as well versed in the code as you think you might be. Especially when "the pull chain might break" theory is your interpretation of the NEC. 

PUH-LEEZE

Then he went on to tell my customer, "see Ron's license number? Mines got only 4 digits." Whoopty-damn-doo! That does't mean you need a "dedicated circuit" for 4 smoke detectors which he was also asking for. I don't get it, I busted my ass to learn the code, to get a license, to do legitimate work and run a full time business and then I get stuck with an inspector(s) who are like a resistor in a circuit just slowing me down like a 12-volt circuit when I wanna run with the 13.8kv! Makes me nuts!!!!!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I have never ever in my whole life ever seen a duplex receptacle outlet that cracked in half. Or fell apart and left the interior contacts open to touch. That never happens. Really intelligent inspector. He must be proud of all the smart decisions he makes while keeping the public safe and secure.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> Had him on the phone with my customer standing there beside him. My customer just told me that the inspector told him, "you know, Ron might be right about that," Of course I'm right because I KNOW THE CODE. Just because you've had your license since 1962 does not mean you are as well versed in the code as you think you might be. Especially when "the pull chain might break" theory is your interpretation of the NEC.
> 
> PUH-LEEZE
> 
> Then he went on to tell my customer, "see Ron's license number? Mines got only 4 digits." Whoopty-damn-doo! That does't mean you need a "dedicated circuit" for 4 smoke detectors which he was also asking for. I don't get it, I busted my ass to learn the code, to get a license, to do legitimate work and run a full time business and then I get stuck with an inspector(s) who are like a resistor in a circuit just slowing me down like a 12-volt circuit when I wanna run with the 13.8kv! Makes me nuts!!!!!


At least you've got the stones to ask for a code reference... it's sad how many don't and just roll over.

Pete


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

To whom this concerns, 

Please be advised that this in reference to 123 Any Street, Anywhere, USA. 

You had had a question about the pull chain light in the attic space beside the HVAC equipment (furnace). I am writing to you share with you the code sections I have complied with in the installation. Please feel free to call or e-mail me with any additional concerns you may or may not have. 

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration
Equipment Outlet. A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-
ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible
location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located
on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating,
air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment
disconnecting means.

210.70 Lighting Outlets Required. Lighting outlets shall
be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C)

(A) 3) Storage or Equipment Spaces. For attics, underfloor
spaces, utility rooms, and basements, at least one lighting
outlet containing a switch or controlled by a wall switch
shall be installed where these spaces are used for storage or
contain equipment requiring servicing. At least one point of
control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces.
The lighting outlet shall be provided at or near the equipment
requiring servicing.


Sincerely,
Magnettica


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Pete m. said:


> At least you've got the stones to ask for a code reference... it's sad how many don't and just roll over.
> 
> Pete


He did seem a bit taken aback. I think I came off as firm but not threatening. I want to have a good reputation, not a bad one, but I have to standup for myself and my work.


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

Magnettica said:


> The latest inspector is trying to tell me a pull chain light with built in receptacle is not good enough in an attic space with HVAC equipment.
> 
> His case is, "what if the porcelain pc breaks?"
> 
> I asked him what code section was he referring to.


So what happened?

ETA: Nevermind, already answered.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

It passed rough inspection.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I have never ever in my whole life ever seen a duplex receptacle outlet that cracked in half. Or fell apart and left the interior contacts open to touch. That never happens. Really intelligent inspector. He must be proud of all the smart decisions he makes while keeping the public safe and secure.


It was a cheap ass, i mean, money mak'n porcelin pull chain with a receptacle built it.:laughing:

Ron, could he have gig'd ya for non TR?

edit: That is messed up that he would feel the need to point out to the HO about the license number. What an insecurity.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

3xdad said:


> It was a cheap ass, i mean, money mak'n porcelin pull chain with a receptacle built it.:laughing:
> 
> Ron, could he have gig'd ya for non TR?
> 
> edit: That is messed up that he would feel the need to point out to the HO about the license number. What an insecurity.


Oh man not the TR! .... but excellent point!


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## Cherry Hill Bill (Jan 8, 2013)

3xdad said:


> edit: That is messed up that he would feel the need to point out to the HO about the license number. What an insecurity.


Yes, I think it is wrong for an inspector to say anything at all about the EC. He is not there to give his opinion on that. I wonder if reporting this to the DCA would do anything? At least it would be on record incase he tried to give you sh1t in the future.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Cherry Hill Bill said:


> Yes, I think it is wrong for an inspector to say anything at all about the EC. He is not there to give his opinion on that. I wonder if reporting this to the DCA would do anything? At least it would be on record incase he tried to give you sh1t in the future.


It's messed up, but i would not report it. Talk about giving you crap in the future...


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

3xdad said:


> It's messed up, but i would not report it. Talk about giving you crap in the future...


I try not to ruffle any feathers when possible. It just seems most of these EI's are not on the same page as the rest of us. That's what gets me upset. like wtf?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> I try not to ruffle any feathers when possible. It just seems most of these EI's are not on the same page as the rest of us. That's what gets me upset. like wtf?


Not sure at all how the EI's are in NJ but around this area we all meet and at least try to come to a consensus on application of the code. We don't always agree but most times we can at least get close.

Pete


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Mag, 

believe it or not, it's acceptable ettiquete to _leave something_ for the inspector to write up

usually some _chickensh*t_ thing that's easilly corrected, doesn't cost the contract or contrator a lotta time or $$$

so the 'ol duffer doesn't like the pullchain porky, small potatoes....

that's not even close to being in the realm of harda*ssed at all, in fact how would you like some of the code nazis _(and i mean that in the warmest way possible fellas)_ here to come down on your installs?

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> Not sure at all how the EI's are in NJ but around this area we all meet and at least try to come to a consensus on application of the code. We don't always agree but most times we can at least get close.
> 
> Pete


It used to be the IAEI, before they went off into the ozone....~CS~


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> Mag,
> 
> believe it or not, it's acceptable ettiquete to _leave something_ for the inspector to write up
> 
> ...


I can usually get the intent of your posts (usually with the help of a thesaurus and dictionary) but a "code nazi" in my most humble opinion is an inspector doing what they are paid to do. Albeit, some don't do such a good job.

Pete


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*Cheap*

How much money would it have cost you to add a duplex outlet. I think you value your time too little to argue with an inspector over adding a very easy outlet to make him happy. That's just my two cents if an inspector wants something beyond codes and its easy enough ill do it NP. Also not sure if it NEC but I learned and practice GFCI outlets required for attics, I guess it's a fail safe for roof leaks.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

djmessina said:


> How much money would it have cost you to add a duplex outlet. I think you value your time too little to argue with an inspector over adding a very easy outlet to make him happy. That's just my two cents if an inspector wants something beyond codes and its easy enough ill do it NP. Also not sure if it NEC but I learned and practice GFCI outlets required for attics, I guess it's a fail safe for roof leaks.


Dude really? :blink:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

djmessina said:


> How much money would it have cost you to add a duplex outlet. I think you value your time too little to argue with an inspector over adding a very easy outlet to make him happy. That's just my two cents if an inspector wants something beyond codes and its easy enough ill do it NP. Also not sure if it NEC but I learned and practice GFCI outlets required for attics, I guess it's a fail safe for roof leaks.


Why would you do as another wishes you do? Government oversight grows daily and you are perpetuating the growth.

An electrical inspectors job is to enforce legally adopted codes... At what point is the inspectors opinion legally adopted?

Pete


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> I can usually get the intent of your posts (usually with the help of a thesaurus and dictionary) but a "code nazi" in my most humble opinion is an inspector doing what they are paid to do. Albeit, some don't do such a good job.
> 
> Pete


What i'm elluding to is the _golden rule_ Pete

this forum is testimony to those that have the _ability_ to take code issues far and beyond that of mere mortals

personally, i'm not saint Steve in the field, and would not invite such manifestations to be breathing down my neck

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> At what point is the inspectors opinion legally adopted?
> 
> Pete


when he buys the coffee....?:jester:



~CS~


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*Ahj*



Pete m. said:


> Why would you do as another wishes you do? Government oversight grows daily and you are perpetuating the growth.
> 
> An electrical inspectors job is to enforce legally adopted codes... At what point is the inspectors opinion legally adopted?
> 
> Pete


Hes the authority having jurisdiction his opinion is legally adopted thats the point he has final say. Now don't get me wrong I would not bend over backwards for an inspector for a bogus rule. But I think it's fair for an inspector to make you put a legit service outlet in an attic. A keyless fixture with socket attached how many of those in your career have you ripped out of houses because they were junk and failed?


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Had him on the phone with my customer standing there beside him. My customer just told me that the inspector told him, "you know, Ron might be right about that," Of course I'm right because I KNOW THE CODE. Just because you've had your license since 1962 does not mean you are as well versed in the code as you think you might be. Especially when "the pull chain might break" theory is your interpretation of the NEC.
> 
> PUH-LEEZE
> 
> Then he went on to tell my customer, "see Ron's license number? Mines got only 4 digits." Whoopty-damn-doo! That does't mean you need a "dedicated circuit" for 4 smoke detectors which he was also asking for. I don't get it, I busted my ass to learn the code, to get a license, to do legitimate work and run a full time business and then I get stuck with an inspector(s) who are like a resistor in a circuit just slowing me down like a 12-volt circuit when I wanna run with the 13.8kv! Makes me nuts!!!!!


While he was still blabbing, I would have loudly whispered to the homeowner," "Mine has more digits because I know the current code." I would have done it loud enough so he knew you said something, but not loud enough to know what you said.

Then I would have said, "Man, things have changed a lot since you tested for your license, eh?"

What a douche.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

djmessina said:


> Hes the authority having jurisdiction his opinion is legally adopted thats the point he has final say. Now don't get me wrong I would not bend over backwards for an inspector for a bogus rule. But I think it's fair for an inspector to make you put a legit service outlet in an attic. A keyless fixture with socket attached* how many of those in your career have you ripped out* of houses _*because*_ *they* were junk and _*failed*_?


Exactly zero.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

djmessina said:


> Hes the authority having jurisdiction his opinion is legally adopted thats the point he has final say. Now don't get me wrong I would not bend over backwards for an inspector for a bogus rule. But I think it's fair for an inspector to make you put a legit service outlet in an attic. A keyless fixture with socket attached how many of those in your career have you ripped out of houses because they were junk and failed?


No, it's not fair at all. Show me the NEC article that was violated.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

djmessina said:


> Hes the authority having jurisdiction his opinion is legally adopted thats the point he has final say. Now don't get me wrong I would not bend over backwards for an inspector for a bogus rule. But I think it's fair for an inspector to make you put a legit service outlet in an attic. A keyless fixture with socket attached how many of those in your career have you ripped out of houses because they were junk and failed?


Maybe where you are the inspector is the AHJ... Here, I am merely the eyes and ears for the AHJ. 

That being said, what part of the OP's install is not code compliant other than the TR requirement?

If you had installed the same thing, knowing it is code compliant and safe, why would you change it based on the mere opinion of another?

Pete


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

djmessina said:


> Hes the authority having jurisdiction his opinion is legally adopted thats the point he has final say. Now don't get me wrong I would not bend over backwards for an inspector for a bogus rule. But I think it's fair for an inspector to make you put a legit service outlet in an attic. A keyless fixture with socket attached how many of those in your career have you ripped out of houses because they were junk and failed?


Never ripped out a keyless because it failed. I'd say a keyless lampholder is one of the more reliable pieces of electrical equipment out there, especially the old ones. Old porcelain lampholders last forever unless dumbasses break them.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*Wrong issue*

It may be code compliant but I think trying to fight such a small issue is a waste. If an inspector just wants you to add a regular duplex I don't think it's worth the pissing contest with them. My personal opinion is that installing a pull chain fixture with outlet combo is hack and looks unprofessional.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*Receptacle fails*



InPhase277 said:


> Never ripped out a keyless because it failed. I'd say a keyless lampholder is one of the more reliable pieces of electrical equipment out there, especially the old ones. Old porcelain lampholders last forever unless dumbasses break them.


The lamp socket is good its the receptacle that fails whenever I come across them.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

No inspector that i know of is granted the time to inspect everything

In fact, some states (like NH) have only 3 EI's , i've asked them and they'll claim they_ 'never get up with nuthin' to do'_ 

Be honest, as an EC i might take 2 weeks to rough , or even trim a bigger job

An EI might walk through it all in 20 minutes, _'opine'_ on a few things that jump out, and be on his way

Some operate on e-mail, asking for calc's , sometimes pix, whatever.....

There are very very few out there that are granted the time to take every job down to the ninth degree

That said, i've asked to have them open 'the book' & show me, conversley i've opened the book and shown them

But for some ch*ckesh*t pullchain porky? Please don't waste my tax $$$....thanks

~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

djmessina said:


> It may be code compliant but I think trying to fight such a small issue is a waste. If an inspector just wants you to add a regular duplex I don't think it's worth the pissing contest with them. My personal opinion is that installing a pull chain fixture with outlet combo is hack and looks unprofessional.


First five words are all that matters.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Pete m. said:


> I can usually get the intent of your posts (usually with the help of a thesaurus and dictionary) but a "code nazi" in my most humble opinion is an inspector doing what they are paid to do. Albeit, some don't do such a good job.
> 
> Pete



I think he means the code nazis here, on ET. I don't think any of us would like to have any of the rest of us nitpicking their work:laughing:


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

am I wrong in my thinking? But I didn't think TR was required in attics, crawlspaces or inside cabinets.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> I think he means the code nazis here, on ET. I don't think any of us would like to have any of the rest of us nitpicking their work:laughing:


 

go ahead....post a pix of your work Phase...:whistling2:

~CS~


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*Ok Pete*

You have a valid point Scott but let me pick your brain on something.

Emt is allowed to be installed outdoors according to the NEC with the appropriate conductors and fittings.

However my inspector being in Galveston, an island, will fail it due to the salty atmosphere rusting it out in five years or less. 

What's your take on that?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Is it Galveston that had a history of devestating hurricanes DJ...? ~CS~


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

djmessina said:


> How much money would it have cost you to add a duplex outlet. I think you value your time too little to argue with an inspector over adding a very easy outlet to make him happy. That's just my two cents if an inspector wants something beyond codes and its easy enough ill do it NP. Also not sure if it NEC but I learned and practice GFCI outlets required for attics, I guess it's a fail safe for roof leaks.




In this particular case it would have meant 120 minutes of drive time, $250 of lost revenue, and none of it required by the NEC. I offer the inspectors the courtesy they have earned by becoming an inspector, but when they're not on the same page, or trying to tell the HO what I have done wrong, then we have a problem.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> go ahead....post a pix of your work Phase...:whistling2:
> 
> ~CS~


I'm too busy working to be snapping pics of sh!t just to have some desk jockey self-procalimed code experts tell me I strapped my MC at 12.5" instead of 12". I gots no time for that jive.:laughing:


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*Yep*

America's worst natural disaster in 1900 a couple pretty bad ones then a slaughter in 2008 with hurricane Ike.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*I feel for you*

Magnetica that inspector is a tool and extremely unprofessional to talk to your customer like that. I'd be more concerned with that to his superiors than the little code violation.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

djmessina said:


> You have a valid point Scott but let me pick your brain on something.
> 
> Emt is allowed to be installed outdoors according to the NEC with the appropriate conductors and fittings.
> 
> ...


Legally adopt it as an enforceable rule. Otherwise, one guy who thinks something is better than something else, allowed to enforce what he sees fit, is just asking for trouble and not right.

We have a pretty strict system here in Mass that for the most part has done away with rogue inspectors..


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*Really?*

Even when you know he's right about the conduit and its poor install for this region?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

djmessina said:


> Even when you know he's right about the conduit and its poor install for this region?


If it's such a problem it should be no biggie to get a legally binding rule into place. Provided you are in an area where there is a decent system. Other than that, it's not up to an inspector to decide what is or isn't better based on opinion. That's my view.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

djmessina said:


> You have a valid point Scott but let me pick your brain on something.
> 
> Emt is allowed to be installed outdoors according to the NEC with the appropriate conductors and fittings.
> 
> ...


Please don't get me wrong I'm not trying to bust your balls but as an inspector I have a great respect for an electrician that questions me if I have the opinion that what they did isn't code compliant. 

I know some inspectors take it personal and I believe that is their personal problem. I've dealt with it my whole time being an installing electrician.

I am just of the opinion that if you do a good job and your money is on the line the inspector needs to be on point if they have issue with what you have done.

In short, check the opinions at the door.

Pete


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> In this particular case it would have meant 120 minutes of drive time, $250 of lost revenue, and none of it required by the NEC. I offer the inspectors the courtesy they have earned by becoming an inspector, but when they're not on the same page, or trying to tell the HO what I have done wrong, then we have a problem.


I was going to say I would let him win this one just to keep the peace but not if its that costly to change it. I personally wouldn't have done it to begin with, to me its not something I would want to represent my work, but I agree that it meets code, with the possible argument that it relies on the fixture to meet the receptacle requirement and if it was replaced with a non receptacle type the would be no more service receptacle


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*I see your point*

I get where your coming from as far as rogue inspectors but the way I see it his requirement is reasonably justified and he applies it to every EC in his jurisdiction. It also doesn't hurt when his requirements are easy to meet and allow me to make a little more money on install that normally would be ambiguous in material choices.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

djmessina said:


> How much money would it have cost you to add a duplex outlet. I think you value your time too little to argue with an inspector over adding a very easy outlet to make him happy. That's just my two cents if an inspector wants something beyond codes and its easy enough ill do it NP. Also not sure if it NEC but I learned and practice GFCI outlets required for attics, I guess it's a fail safe for roof leaks.


Sheepeople.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

*What*



backstay said:


> Sheepeople.


Wtf are/is sheepeople?


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

djmessina said:


> Wtf are/is sheepeople?


Sheeple?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Had him on the phone with my customer standing there beside him. My customer just told me that the inspector told him, "you know, Ron might be right about that," Of course I'm right because I KNOW THE CODE. Just because you've had your license since 1962 does not mean you are as well versed in the code as you think you might be. Especially when "the pull chain might break" theory is your interpretation of the NEC.
> 
> PUH-LEEZE
> 
> Then he went on to tell my customer, "see Ron's license number? Mines got only 4 digits." Whoopty-damn-doo! That does't mean you need a "dedicated circuit" for 4 smoke detectors which he was also asking for. I don't get it, I busted my ass to learn the code, to get a license, to do legitimate work and run a full time business and then I get stuck with an inspector(s) who are like a resistor in a circuit just slowing me down like a 12-volt circuit when I wanna run with the 13.8kv! Makes me nuts!!!!!



In mass we Have masters with only 3 digit numbers that they got in 1962,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,But they are followed by Two A's so 304AA master license number ,The funny thing about the two letters after the number is the fact they failed the masters test so they did not get a Class A license but instead got a (Class AA) Master license as punishment for failing the test .. and that is probably the case with your Inspector:laughing::laughing:

They don't do that anymore in mass though unless you are reciprocated then they wont give a real number ,Just a 4 digit with the letters MR..


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

djmessina said:


> Wtf are/is sheepeople?


Spelled it wrong. 

Sheeple
People unable to think for themselves. Followers. Lemmings. Those with no cognitive ablilities of their own.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

backstay said:


> Spelled it wrong.
> 
> Sheeple
> People unable to think for themselves. Followers. Lemmings. Those with no cognitive ablilities of their own.


So following what my master taught me as an apprentice by adding an extra level of safety that isn't absolutely required is what sheeple would do.

So do do you buckle your seatbelt when your in a car like all the rest of the sheeple? So you where safety glasses while working like a sheeple?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

djmessina said:


> So following what my master taught me as an apprentice by adding an extra level of safety that isn't absolutely required is what sheeple would do.
> 
> So do do you buckle your seatbelt when your in a car like all the rest of the sheeple? So you where safety glasses while working like a sheeple?


what the hell does that have to do with not doing what the inspector WANTS? A want by the inspector is not an NEC requirement. I am sick of inspectors and their "what ifs" Anything can and will change after we leave a job and that is something we have no control over. But the original install being code compliant is something we have control over.
We can not live in a "what if" world. What if is something you could have a conversation about all day long. We have inspectors around here that won't accept a lockoff clip on a breaker as a disconnecting means for a dishwasher. Reasoning was the lockoff clip can be overridden. They would rather have a toggle switch on the kitchen counter top. Yeah no one can flip that on while someone is working on the dishwasher. Such a foolproof method that is.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

drspec said:


> what the hell does that have to do with not doing what the inspector WANTS? A want by the inspector is not an NEC requirement. I am sick of inspectors and their "what ifs" Anything can and will change after we leave a job and that is something we have no control over. But the original install being code compliant is something we have control over.
> We can not live in a "what if" world. What if is something you could have a conversation about all day long. We have inspectors around here that won't accept a lockoff clip on a breaker as a disconnecting means for a dishwasher. Reasoning was the lockoff clip can be overridden. They would rather have a toggle switch on the kitchen counter top. Yeah no one can flip that on while someone is working on the dishwasher. Such a foolproof method that is.


It has nothing to do with that it is my response to hippie calling me a steeple for installing GFCI receptacles in attics.

Furthermore I'm in agreement with you my only argument was to give the inspector what he wants if it simple enough like putting a duplex recept instead of a keyless combo


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

Also dishwasher disconnect is a simple fix. Install outlet under sink basin and drill hole through cabinet


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

djmessina said:


> Also dishwasher disconnect is a simple fix. Install outlet under sink basin and drill a hole through cabinet


calculate the cost of a cord, a box, receptacle, cover plate and labor versus a $3 lockoff clip.


for the record, I now plan on this method of install and price it into the job now.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

Take that cost and extra labor mark it up and bill it to your customer


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

djmessina said:


> Take that cost and extra labor mark it up and bill it to your customer


you're going to bill the HO or GC for this after you gave a bid price for the job?
Good luck collecting on that bill.


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## djmessina (Apr 29, 2012)

No prob 150 max and tell them the inspector required it. Is this bash on dj day? Lol


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

djmessina said:


> No prob 150 max and tell them the inspector required it. Is this bash on dj day? Lol


Huh? I didn't call you anything I was just saying sheeple was what he was trying to say with sheepeople.. I don't put gfis in attics either just a cheapo (but TR!!!) duplex


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Hippie said:


> I was going to say I would let him win this one just to keep the peace but not if its that costly to change it. I personally wouldn't have done it to begin with, to me its not something I would want to represent my work, but I agree that it meets code, with the possible argument that it relies on the fixture to meet the receptacle requirement and if it was replaced with a non receptacle type the would be no more service receptacle



Believe me, the pull chain/ rec combo will never even be used. The clearance is very little and the furnace barely fits up there. Why else would be wiring it before a rough inspection? It's accessible now and a pita later. Whoever has to service the furnace one day is going to be more pissed about the lack of working space than he is about a lack of electrical outlets. I do not have any pictures, unfortunately.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Pete m. said:


> Why would you do as another wishes you do? Government oversight grows daily and you are perpetuating the growth.
> 
> An electrical inspectors job is to enforce legally adopted codes... At what point is the inspectors opinion legally adopted?
> 
> Pete



You're hired!


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> In mass we Have masters with only 3 digit numbers that they got in 1962,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,But they are followed by Two A's so 304AA master license number ,The funny thing about the two letters after the number is the fact they failed the masters test so they did not get a Class A license but instead got a (Class AA) Master license as punishment for failing the test .. and that is probably the case with your Inspector:laughing::laughing:
> 
> They don't do that anymore in mass though unless you are reciprocated then they wont give a real number ,Just a 4 digit with the letters MR..




That sounds like way too much bureaucracy (and paper work) to me. :whistling2:


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> It used to be the IAEI, before they went off into the ozone....~CS~


The IAEI still meets every two months in my town at a local restaurant.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> I have never ever in my whole life ever seen a duplex receptacle outlet that cracked in half. Or fell apart and left the interior contacts open to touch. That never happens. Really intelligent inspector. He must be proud of all the smart decisions he makes while keeping the public safe and secure.



actually ive seen a few broke in half usually as a result of a greenhorn forklift driver crashing into them:laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

gnuuser said:


> actually ive seen a few broke in half usually as a result of a greenhorn forklift driver crashing into them:laughing:


And I guess the inspector thinks the forklift might crash into the porcelain pull chain in low clearance attic. Now i see. :no:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> In this particular case it would have meant 120 minutes of drive time, $250 of lost revenue, and none of it required by the NEC. I offer the inspectors the courtesy they have earned by becoming an inspector, but when they're not on the same page, or trying to tell the HO what I have done wrong, then we have a problem.


Imho, the ahj is not there to create a conflict of interest for your biz, s/he's there to pass or fail you.

Recently, because my ahj chose to be an operative of the customer, vs. doing his job as a state employee , my entire company was thrust in a _severly_ liable position

months went by.....finally i forwarded a formal complaint in writting to my ahj's boss

unfortunatley the 'boss ahj' was also politically coerced into siding with his subordinate, and sat on the complaint. Understandable when every two bit politician from the gov on down appears at your project.....

6 months later i contacted the deputy chair of my state's licensing board, citing my complaint

the complaint was subsequently validated by the local offices , forcing the customer() to address a hazard , which i would have been hung out to dry for

no, i didn't make many friends, my local competition had dibs on me being railroaded out of biz, but i stood my ground ,and on_ one_ principal

EI's and EC's have a symbiant relationship, one doesn't exist (or for long) without the other, niether should violate this for politics or $$$$

The same philosophy holds true from newsworthy projects down to pullchain porkies.....jmho....

~CS~


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank God for private (non state) inspections. Your'e inspector sounds like a cheeseball Ron.


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I have never ever in my whole life ever seen a duplex receptacle outlet that...fell apart and left the interior contacts open to touch. That never happens.


I unplugged my vacuum the other day and the receptacle came apart at the rivets. The internals were left with no support and the line side contacted the ground pin. It was unexpected and mildly exciting.

They were original to the 25 year old house.

My biggest concern was the slag that fell into the wall space.

I just wanted to clean the kids' toy room and ended up replacing two receps that night.


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

cuba_pete said:


> I unplugged my vacuum the other day and the receptacle came apart at the rivets. The internals were left with no support and the line side contacted the ground pin. It was unexpected and mildly exciting.
> 
> They were original to the 25 year old house.
> 
> ...


That's why you let the wife do the cleaning, doubt it would have happened to her. 

:lol:


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## Bulldog (Jan 28, 2009)

Inspector are suppose to enforce the adopted code and not enforce thier own views or ideas.
Homeowner wants a fan box over bathtub or whirlpool. You install it and place a blank cover over it for final inspection. This would pass. Simple because you can fail something based on what might occur in the future.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> You're hired!


After the day I've had today all I wanna know is where to report.

Pete


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

As an inspector I agree that You *should* ask for the code section he is basing his inspection on. I have been challenged numerous times and was able to prove my justification . 

Too many inspector inspect "Their Opinion" and not the NEC. 
Those who are afraid of the inspector, don't know any better, or just bow down and kiss the inspectors ass is the reason these inspectors get away with that crap. YOU LET THEM :furious:

Most electricians assume the inspector is the AHJ - most times the inspector IS NOT, but rather a "representative" of the AHJ.

I check mt attitude at the door and keep my opinions to myself when I do an inspection. I base the inspection on the code. There are times when I do not like something ,BUT it meets code so it passes.


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