# bonding water pipe vs. metal water pipe in ground?



## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Maybe i misunderstood the question, are you asking about a secondary means of grounding service or bonding water pipes as to permit a least resistance path to ground


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

as to the latter, i would say it is just as functional for bonding purposes..but not as a secondary means of svc. ground (if thats in fact what you were asking)
but i would have to look up the legalities of it.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

i have actually run into that on fiberglass pools,the inspector made me drive GE's on all 4 corners of the pool to bond pump because there was not any re-bar/handrails etc.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I have no use for Home Inspectors. I'm in the middle of a home sale dispute which the H.I. said " A-OK," and when I opened up the panel,found a rusted interior, bus was arcing when I operated the dryer,mismatched breakers,ect... The basement had a fresh coat of drylok paint,though.​


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## 68 Malibu 383 (Apr 3, 2010)

rnr electric said:


> Maybe i misunderstood the question, are you asking about a secondary means of grounding service or bonding water pipes as to permit a least resistance path to ground


Yes. Water supply pipe goes into the earth and to the meter by the road. This is grounded just like older houses used to be grounded when they did not have a driven rod. To me, it has a good ground considering the age and adding a driven rod would be an upgrade.

But is adding a bond wire from the water pipe to the main house ground necessary for some functionality purpose?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

68 Malibu 383 said:


> Yes. Water supply pipe goes into the earth and to the meter by the road. This is grounded just like older houses used to be grounded when they did not have a driven rod. To me, it has a good ground considering the age and adding a driven rod would be an upgrade.
> 
> But is adding a bond wire from the water pipe to the main house ground necessary for some functionality purpose?




Yes. The nec requires you create a grounding electrode system with 2 or more grounding electrodes. The water pipe must be in contact with the earth for 10 ft or more to qualify as an electrode. Ground rods if used as an electrode must be 8 ft long. The purpose of grounding a house is for lightning protection. In the event of a hit your grounding electrode system stabilizes the voltage to ground.


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## 68 Malibu 383 (Apr 3, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Yes. The nec requires you create a grounding electrode system with 2 or more grounding electrodes. The water pipe must be in contact with the earth for 10 ft or more to qualify as an electrode. Ground rods if used as an electrode must be 8 ft long.


Thank you.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

68 Malibu 383 said:


> Thank you.




You are welcome. Where in NC are you located? FYI......I make good money off fixing problems on home inspector reports so I have no issue with most of you. Just like there are good and bad electricians there are good and bad HI's.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

bobelectric said:


> I have no use for Home Inspectors. I'm in the middle of a home sale dispute which the H.I. said " A-OK," and when I opened up the panel,found a rusted interior, bus was arcing when I operated the dryer,mismatched breakers,ect... The basement had a fresh coat of drylok paint,though.​


The fact is that home inspector may have missed what you are decribing..

In every trade there are good and bad men..

In my state the Home Inspectors have to go through an Aprenticship and become Licensed by the state they are usually trades men from any number of the trades,,Some are licensed Electricians as well.

For the most part i have found that home inspectors do a good job at finding problems that need to be fixed..

That is when we get the call to fix it.. That is good..:thumbup:

As for the "OP" jwjrw has it right,:thumbsup:
In those days the GEC was bonded to the water pipe at the water meter on both sides of the meter,They were not driving ground rods back then ,, and the water system was all copper..


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

JW, i agree with your explanation (08 nec 250.52). i have allways been under the impression that a grounded system was a protective means to allow a path to ground and not for lightning protection,more for protection for the homes own electrical system. i.e. in an ungrounded system an errant wire comes in contact with your metal dryer casing on a concrete floor, in your bare feet you are the easiest path to ground and are now the "conductor", a grounded dryer would prevent this. I am not questioning you, just asking, i have done many lightning protection systems and they are never tied in to the homes system.i know that the ground serves many other purposes (before i get bombarded with hate threads here), just never heard of it referred to as lightning protection.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

rnr electric said:


> JW, i agree with your explanation (08 nec 250.52). i have allways been under the impression that a grounded system was a protective means to allow a path to ground and not for lightning protection,more for protection for the homes own electrical system. i.e. in an ungrounded system an errant wire comes in contact with your metal dryer casing on a concrete floor, in your bare feet you are the easiest path to ground and are now the "conductor", a grounded dryer would prevent this. I am not questioning you, just asking, i have done many lightning protection systems and they are never tied in to the homes system.i know that the ground serves many other purposes (before i get bombarded with hate threads here), just never heard of it referred to as lightning protection.


We are here to learn and you shouldn't get hate mail. The grounding of an electrical system is for several reasons...one being the possibility of a lightning strike, or a fractured portion of one. Another could be a primary to secondary short at the service transformer; another, the possibility of a line of a higher voltage dropping onto the lower voltage line as could happen if a vehicle knocks a pole over.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Yes. The nec requires you create a grounding electrode system with 2 or more grounding electrodes. The water pipe must be in contact with the earth for 10 ft or more to qualify as an electrode. Ground rods if used as an electrode must be 8 ft long. The purpose of grounding a house is for lightning protection. In the event of a hit your grounding electrode system stabilizes the voltage to ground.


 

Good post, I'd also like to add that a metal underground waterpipe in contact with the earth for 10' , the NEC not only qualifies it as an electrode, but mandates's it's use


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

yes i totally agree with your explanation, it serves a multitude of purposes. but i have never heard of it protecting(even in part) for lightning strikes.but i love to learn,so i am gonna do some researchon this one (i love electrical theory),now if lightning hit your tree outside and sent a static charge into the earth, your GEC should protect as it should not travel into your house wiring but rather trave back to ground right?. 
(The embarassing thing is my dad used to teach elec. theory)


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

rnr electric said:


> yes i totally agree with your explanation, it serves a multitude of purposes. but i have never heard of it protecting(even in part) for lightning strikes.but i love to learn,so i am gonna do some researchon this one (i love electrical theory),now if lightning hit your tree outside and sent a static charge into the earth, your GEC should protect as it should not travel into your house wiring but rather trave back to ground right?.
> (The embarassing thing is my dad used to teach elec. theory)




Google is your friend. There is a wealth of information on grounding electrodes and how they work on the web. The correct term is "earthing" not grounding since 2008 I think.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

The thing to understand is that the grounding electrode system(GEC) is for lightning protection. The bonding system is for personel protection. Copper water lines in a house need to be bonded. If there is a metalic water line coming into the house it needs to be bonded as part of the GEC system. This also accomplishes bonding the water lines for personel protection. So even if you have a plastic water main, if you have copper water pipes in a house they need to be bonded.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Harry. How would you miss rusty terminal screws and a arcing bus +rusting enclosure if you are the trained..." Expert?"


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

250.52 and 250.64 both say call an electrician


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

you are spot on right,guys. i had is bass ackwards. not a day goes by that i dont wish i had paid more attention in school


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