# Bonding of conductive surfaces near hot tub



## turdferguson (Dec 10, 2020)

So the scenario is an outdoor hot tub sitting on a concrete pad below/adjacent to a deck that has home Depot DIY powder coated metallic handrails. This handrail is easily reachable from inside of the tub I drilled and tapped a lug to the base of one of the posts and ran a number eight copper to the bond point. Here is the issue: each individual piece of this handrail system is powder coated and essentially electrically isolated by the paint from all the other parts of this handrail. Therefore all I did was Bond one of 1 meeelion pieces of metal that are within 5 ft of the hot tub. Is there any exception to this rule other than telling the guy the bad news that he has to move the tub or erect a barrier or remove the handrail? Bonding each post, each rail, and each "picket" is not reasonable. That is 34 pieces and would look like crap and take all day.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

We had one that would have required over 100 clamps. The owners put up a plexiglass shield near the tub. If the powder coating discourages continuity then it probably isn't an issue. If you drill and tap one post then you are thru the poder coating and IMO that would bond all the other posts


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

Underneath the paint, all metal is one. Anyway, does it really matter? We'll all be dead 100 years from now. 
I think bonding like you did should suffice. I'm too pooped to look at my book right now.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

WannabeTesla said:


> Underneath the paint, all metal is one. Anyway, does it really matter? We'll all be dead 100 years from now.
> I think bonding like you did should suffice. I'm too pooped to look at my book right now.



More like wannabe Nihilist lol.


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

I would think what you have done should be enough. The railing is in itself floating and bolted to a wood structure. It would be difficult to energize it through the powder coating and with your bonding, it now has a path that should trip the breaker?

Tim.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The one I had were isolated metal pipes between posts. I had to bond each pipe. Wasn't as bad as the other one I mentioned


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## turdferguson (Dec 10, 2020)

Oh also....before anyone points out the lights as a violation.....I told him that they have to go


WannabeTesla said:


> Underneath the paint, all metal is one. Anyway, does it really matter? We'll all be dead 100 years from now.
> I think bonding like you did should suffice. I'm too pooped to look at my book right now.





canbug said:


> I would think what you have done should be enough. The railing is in itself floating and bolted to a wood structure. It would be difficult to energize it through the powder coating and with your bonding, it now has a path that should trip the break





Dennis Alwon said:


> We had one that would have required over 100 clamps. The owners put up a plexiglass shield near the tub. If the powder coating discourages continuity then it probably isn't an issue. If you drill and tap one post then you are thru the poder coating and IMO that would bond all the other posts


Yes thanks, my issue (possibly) is that I couldn't get any reading other than out of range on meter between the post that I bonded and any rails next to it or for that matter between any two components on the assembly. I scratched through the paint to bare metal on all attempts. So the powder coat is insulating each rail from each picket and each post. So yes logically I feel like it should be fine but I'd hate to be missing something and cause an injury or worse. I would also hate for my buddy to have to move his hot tub, or replace his railing, or have to put up some ugly ass barrier


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## turdferguson (Dec 10, 2020)

*unnecessarily


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

blueheels2 said:


> More like wannabe Nihilist lol.


I've heard that word but don't know what it means. Can you please use it in a sentence?


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

I think if this were a long range communication site, not grounding/bonding those rails would be a concern. I really think that the potential for a difference of potential is low in this case. Next we'll be trying to make sure we bond the grill, which has probably about as much metal in it than the railing in the photo. 💩


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

WannabeTesla said:


> I've heard that word but don't know what it means. Can you please use it in a sentence?











nihilist


Definition, Synonyms, Translations of nihilist by The Free Dictionary




www.thefreedictionary.com





1st definition sums it up.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Why bond anything at all? It has a GFI, it's not possible to get shocked..........

I don't think I'd bond every rail, I would treat it as a structure and bond only one point.


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## WannabeTesla (Feb 24, 2020)

blueheels2 said:


> nihilist
> 
> 
> Definition, Synonyms, Translations of nihilist by The Free Dictionary
> ...


Ha ha! You can't even use it in a sentence! Hee hee!


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

WannabeTesla said:


> Ha ha! You can't even use it in a sentence! Hee hee!


really doesn't matter (nothing else matters either)


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

I think I'd be more concerned about that string of lights strapped onto the railing with cheap cable ties right above the hot tub.

But as for the railing: can you drive small white screws through each spindle into the crosspiece on the bottom to get a continuous path? If one of those lightbulbs breaks or the cable wears through and energizes the railing and someone gets hurt, someone will probably ask why it wasn't bonded. Is that a liability you are ok with?


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## turdferguson (Dec 10, 2020)

AK_sparky said:


> I think I'd be more concerned about that string of lights strapped onto the railing with cheap cable ties right above the hot tub.
> 
> But as for the railing: can you drive small white screws through each spindle into the crosspiece on the bottom to get a continuous path? If one of those lightbulbs breaks or the cable wears through and energizes the railing and someone gets hurt, someone will probably ask why it wasn't bonded. Is that a liability you are ok with?


Yes the lights, I told him that those need to go, although he has GFCI protection on the spa and the light string. Still I recommended removing them. I do like the screw Idea, thanks!


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

WannabeTesla said:


> I've heard that word but don't know what it means. Can you please use it in a sentence?


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