# Dimmable leds and strobe effect



## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

mikewardjr said:


> I recently installed 5 juno 5" ic20r cans with 205w trims. I put dimmable led lamps in. I used the same dimmer that was there for an existing light. The led lamps have a strobe effect when they are dimmed. they say they are dimmable on the package. Any ideas?


Get a led dimmer, you can't dim them without the proper dimmer


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## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

even with the LED dimmer they will not dim as nicely as halogen or incandescent. close but no cigar.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

danickstr said:


> even with the LED dimmer they will not dim as nicely as halogen or incandescent. close but no cigar.


You are going to need to get onboard with new technology

Halogen and incandescent lights are a thing of the past.

The LEDs I put in my kitchen dim perfect,what are you talking about?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I have a couple of crees in my kitchen and they work fantastic...


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

Ohhh I need an led dimmer. I'm new to the leds. Do you have any suggestions on brands or styles of led dimmers that work better than others?


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## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

this is an old tired argument. I really prefer halogen and incandescent light until dimming in an LED works better.

sort of like saying I prefer a BMW to a Prius. What a wasteful person I am.

But I will ask you politely what brand of dimmer and LED you installed in your kitchen so that I can go look at them and tell you what I think of the set.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

How is the color spectrum?


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Not totally sure if I'm right but here goes they may possibly work with the existing dimmer but could need to apply more load to have them work properly. I know with the Crees some regular dimmers work but you have a minimum wattage needed for correct operation. Like in my inlays kitchen I replaced 5 regular recess with Cree they are like 11 watts each but to use a Lutron ariadni regular dimmer (if I remember correctly) you need 60 watts plus to dim correctly.
Checkout the manufacturer's specs you may not need a new dimmer, may be a pita or look odd though for all led bulbs then 1 or so regulars. 
I like the new technology I just wish they would make it more compatible before they go full bore in releasing it or requiring it.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

mikewardjr said:


> I recently installed 5 juno 5" ic20r cans with 205w trims. I put dimmable led lamps in. I used the same dimmer that was there for an existing light. The led lamps have a strobe effect when they are dimmed. they say they are dimmable on the package. Any ideas?


 
Check out this web site here and be sure to open the link at the bottom of the page this is Lutron, I have no association to the product line!


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## Aldo Moretti (Aug 29, 2011)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Get a led dimmer, you can't dim them with the proper dimmer


You can't dim them with the proper dimmer ? Well, how can you dim them ?
You might want to check if there is a shared neutral on the circuit.
I remember when dimmable compact flourescents came out, they didn't work well either. Some things take time to eventually be figured out to be dimmed properly.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Try putting ONE halogen bulb on the same circuit with the rest of them LED's

Betcha it will work fine with that extra load acting as a dampening field ...


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## dmxtothemax (Jun 15, 2010)

kbsparky said:


> Try putting ONE halogen bulb on the same circuit with the rest of them LED's
> 
> Betcha it will work fine with that extra load acting as a dampening field ...


Some how I dont think so !
LEDS flicker on normal incandesant dimmers,
Because they respond very quickly,
Cause they dont have the thermal inertia that incandesants do.
You will need a LED dimmer.


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

I just bought a couple led dimmers. Ill let you know how it turns out once I install them. The color spectrum is nice. easy on the eyes


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

dmxtothemax said:


> Some how I dont think so !
> LEDS flicker on normal incandesant dimmers,
> Because they respond very quickly,
> Cause they dont have the thermal inertia that incandesants do.
> You will need a LED dimmer.


Have you even TRIED this? I have on several jobs, and it works! 

Edit to add: The halogen bulb must be on the dimmer with the LED's -- not just on the same circuit. Just to clarify it here.


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## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

it may void the (expensive) LED warranty to use an inappropriate dimmer on it.


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> Try putting ONE halogen bulb on the same circuit with the rest of them LED's
> 
> Betcha it will work fine with that extra load acting as a dampening field ...





dmxtothemax said:


> Some how I dont think so !
> LEDS flicker on normal incandesant dimmers,
> Because they respond very quickly,
> Cause they dont have the thermal inertia that incandesants do.
> You will need a LED dimmer.


It sounds odd, but it really does work. One of Lutron's QC engineers actually recommended this to me. They even sell a product now that you can place in series with the LED load that will mimic a halogen bulb being on the same circuit. LUT-LBX is the Lutron part number.


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

Led dimmer and they are still flickering.


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

mikewardjr said:


> Led dimmer and they are still flickering.


i've got 4 halo LED's in my kitchen, and they dim quite nicely...
using a lutron dimmer... not a $27 lutron dimmer, a $51 lutron 
dimmer....

see how detail oriented i am? i could go find a catalog number,
but that requires work....


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## dmxtothemax (Jun 15, 2010)

That is still a cheap crappy dimmer !
Find one that is not made for cfls or anything else,
Except LEDS.
you will have to spend more money.
Cheap dimmers = cheap results.

Normal dimmers chop up the waveform,
But because incandesants respond very slowily,
you cannot see it.
But LEDs are different,
they respond very quickily,
so you can see the results of achopped up waveform,
results flickering.


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## Aldo Moretti (Aug 29, 2011)

dmxtothemax said:


> That is still a cheap crappy dimmer !
> Find one that is not made for cfls or anything else,
> Except LEDS.
> you will have to spend more money.
> ...


And those cheap dimmers that chop the waveform cause dirty power ! And they also do not save any energy at all by dimming down, instead they dump energy as heat. That is why regular dimmers run hot and have heat sinks.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Aldo Moretti said:


> And those cheap dimmers that chop the waveform cause dirty power ! And they also do not save any energy at all by dimming down, instead they dump energy as heat. That is why regular dimmers run hot and have heat sinks.


So then what dimmers do you use?


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

Yeah can someone post a model number of a dimmer I should use? Pretty please


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

Try a Lutron SELV-300. It is an electronic pulse width modulation dimmer. That is the one we used to use on the old LED drivers that did not come dimmer compatible. It will set you back about $50.00 though.


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## mikewardjr (Aug 1, 2007)

MarkyMark said:


> Try a Lutron SELV-300. It is an electronic pulse width modulation dimmer. That is the one we used to use on the old LED drivers that did not come dimmer compatible. It will set you back about $50.00 though.


Id rather be -50$ than have this pissed of customer


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

dmxtothemax said:


> they respond very quickily,
> so you can see the results of achopped up waveform,
> results flickering.


It just means poor driver design. If you make a quick eyeball movement behind a bus, you can see the flicker. When the bus apply the brakes, you won't see it flicker. They call this PWM control.

Say for 100Hz PWM and 10% on, it would be 1ms on, 9ms off. It's really staying on at 100% for 10% of the time, but to our eyes, it looks like its dimmed. When the bus applies their brake, the lamp becomes energized as 100% on, thus flicker going away. 

If they were to use 10,000Hz PWM, it would be 10µS on, 90µS off. It would still achieve the same dimming effect, but there would be no visible flicker. 

A well made dimming circuit will use current regulation or use PWM frequency that stays out of visible flicker, audible range (acoustic noise from electronics) and a range of frequency that interfere with IR remote and theft detection system.


If the kind of flicker you're seeing is cyclical like flashing or looks like florescent lamp that's going out, that's an issue of ballast/lamp incompatibility. If you're seeing strobing effect in moving objects, that's a poor driver design. No dimmer will make up for poor lamp driver.


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

i just installed some lithonia led cans that use a regular 0-10v fluorescent dimmer, they work great
put in some regular cans with philips master led dimmer bulbs and a standard lutron knob dimmer and they work great, dimmed to the point you had to look up into the can to see if they were still on, color was great, no flickers


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Bbsound said:


> i just installed some lithonia led cans that use a regular 0-10v fluorescent dimmer, they work great
> put in some regular cans with philips master led dimmer bulbs and a standard lutron knob dimmer and they work great, dimmed to the point you had to look up into the can to see if they were still on, color was great, no flickers


Dimming quality in ones that use Lutron 3-wire setup or 0-10v is completely up to the lamp driver. Since these setups have access to straight hot power, compatibility issues aren't as common.

The ones that have the most issues are the ones that use phase control two-wire setup with no additional control wires. 

Unfortunately 0-10v setup is not practical for residential without pulling a pair of thermostat wires to each fixture. Having to add control wires is the greatest burden.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Man last time I thought about this I was still trying to decide what to be for halloween


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