# Advice on Getting into Industrial sector?



## JakeELT101 (Sep 19, 2021)

Hey, my name is Jake, this is my first post on here. I'm currently working as a residential apprentice electrician for about 6 months and going to school to finish my Bachelors in STEM. I wanted to ask how you have got your start in Industrial and if you have any advice on getting an industrial job. Industrial seems like it takes a lot of skill and knowledge but it seems more interesting to me. Id rather be working with VFDs, motor controls, switchgear, PLCs instead of just switches, outlets, fixtures all day everyday. Id appreciate some good advice and feedback and Im new to the trade and forum so I apologize if i didnt post this the right way.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

When I transitioned from commercial to industrial, my journeyman at the time was heading over and the company he was moving to was looking for apprentices. I applied and got on. When they got slow, I went back to commercial for a job, then applied at another industrial company and a week later I was working for them.
It can be a big change going from resi to commercial to industrial. Different ways of doing the work. Different standards and routine knowledge. Different working environments.


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## JakeELT101 (Sep 19, 2021)

glen1971 said:


> When I transitioned from commercial to industrial, my journeyman at the time was heading over and the company he was moving to was looking for apprentices. I applied and got on. When they got slow, I went back to commercial for a job, then applied at another industrial company and a week later I was working for them.
> It can be a big change going from resi to commercial to industrial. Different ways of doing the work. Different standards and routine knowledge. Different working environments.


Thank you for your reply, Is there anything besides experience in commercial and industrial that would help me get my foot in the door with an employer? Do you think trade school is important for me to do if I want a career in the Industrial Sector.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

JakeELT101 said:


> Thank you for your reply, Is there anything besides experience in commercial and industrial that would help me get my foot in the door with an employer? Do you think trade school is important for me to do if I want a career in the Industrial Sector.


I'm not sure what the job market is in your area. I didn't have any specialized training when I applied. I had my first year of trade school behind me, and was eager to learn. Lots to take in for sure. Any courses I needed after I got on (First Aid, Fall Arrest, H2S Alive, etc) were paid for by my employer.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Most industrial jobs do not require a journeyman's so very few employers are going to pay for something they do not require. That's not a big deal when you are young but can bite you in the arse when you have 20 years experience and considering breaking out as a contractor. If you are on a apprenticeship then i would carry on and finish that first.

The easiest transition to industrial (live work) is a utility department. Once you have a year's experience in that jumping to larger industrial jobs shouldn't be a problem as you would have picked up the all the key words required to get your foot in the door.


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## JakeELT101 (Sep 19, 2021)

gpop said:


> Most industrial jobs do not require a journeyman's so very few employers are going to pay for something they do not require. That's not a big deal when you are young but can bite you in the arse when you have 20 years experience and considering breaking out as a contractor. If you are on a apprenticeship then i would carry on and finish that first.
> 
> The easiest transition to industrial (live work) is a utility department. Once you have a year's experience in that jumping to larger industrial jobs shouldn't be a problem as you would have picked up the all the key words required to get your foot in the door.


Thank you for your feedback gpop,I definitely am working towards getting my Jean license, and I’m sorry if this is a dumb question but when you say a utility department what exactly are you referring to ?


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

I guess I “started” when I was 4. Grew up on a farm. My feet couldn’t touch the pedals yet but my dad taught me how to use tools. I got pretty good at taking my toys apart to learn how they worked, not so much on putting them back together!

Seriously NOBODY knows industrials entirely. A good maintenance guy knows construction, electrical, electronics, programming, burners, safety systems, power distribution, and general process knowledge. In other words it’s impossible to know it all. So you get your foot in the door somewhere and take every chance you get to learn and get better. And don’t limit yourself to the manufacturing plant down the street. Farms, water plants, power plants, food plants, have a lot in common. Process plants though are very different from manufacturing automation. Basically it’s making stuff vs. things, to some degree. But the controls are very similar in many ways.

Once you get in the door whatever skills you have will be put to use. Not everybody is good at troubleshooting but it is something that can be learned and so you can get better.


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## JakeELT101 (Sep 19, 2021)

paulengr said:


> I guess I “started” when I was 4. Grew up on a farm. My feet couldn’t touch the pedals yet but my dad taught me how to use tools. I got pretty good at taking my toys apart to learn how they worked, not so much on putting them back together!
> 
> Seriously NOBODY knows industrials entirely. A good maintenance guy knows construction, electrical, electronics, programming, burners, safety systems, power distribution, and general process knowledge. In other words it’s impossible to know it all. So you get your foot in the door somewhere and take every chance you get to learn and get better. And don’t limit yourself to the manufacturing plant down the street. Farms, water plants, power plants, food plants, have a lot in common. Process plants though are very different from manufacturing automation. Basically it’s making stuff vs. things, to some degree. But the controls are very similar in many ways.
> 
> Once you get in the door whatever skills you have will be put to use. Not everybody is good at troubleshooting but it is something that can be learned and so you can get better.


Thank you for your advice, ill make sure that i make the most out of every opportunity and try and learn as much as I can.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I agree a lot with Paulengr. A lot has to do when your in the right place at the right time.

Get someone professional and familiar with the electrical trade to do your resume. Sometimes it is the way you say things on paper that gets you to the interview.

I also started in residential until the old foreman stubbed all of the ac stubs out on the wrong side of the units, 330 of them. I was handed a brandy new 3/4" bender and 100 feet of EMT and an Ugly's Book. LEARN was the command of the owner as he was laying people off. Best thing that could have happened to me at the time. 

Industrial is a complete and total different animal than what your doing right now. You may find that you do not like it. My experience in industrial has always been either it was a loose ship or a tight ship. Meaning that some places give you your head and you are allowed to take care of what you decide is important. (I like this) Then the other places hand you written orders and expect you to take care of what they hand you, immediately.
I have always been good at seeing the big picture and doing what needed to be done
whether or not I liked the job. Another issue is industrial is usually 24-7 and the new guys start on nights/weekends. 

STEM degree is a broad category. From what I know of the Engineering Degree offered by STEM it may or may not be helpful. The courses here are not focused enough on the electrical trade to be useful. 
Teaching someone how to do the job and get along with the organization is expensive.


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## mburtis (Sep 1, 2018)

Sorta depends on if you are more interested in maintenance or construction. A lot of maintenance opportunities may be in house for factories, plants, municipal departments etc, and they may or may not care about licensing. A lot of places you might be shoulder to shoulder with the mechanics in the grease and oil pulling gearboxes and other jobs that some electricians will think are below them. I personally like being multicraft but some won't.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

JakeELT101 said:


> Thank you for your feedback gpop,I definitely am working towards getting my Jean license, and I’m sorry if this is a dumb question but when you say a utility department what exactly are you referring to ?


Water / waste water city job. One of the few places that requires a journeyman's yet is more allied to a industrial job. This oxymoron means they generally have a generous training budget.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

SWDweller said:


> Teaching someone how to do the job and get along with the organization is expensive.


This is what NO school teaches. It’s the one thing you learn (or not) in your first year in an industrial plant. Most of what you learn in electrical engineering is not the skills you need in an industrial plant. In 30 years I have never integrated a differential equation or calculated hole mobility. But I did look at a huge equation on the engineering license test and solved it in 10 seconds.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

mburtis said:


> I personally like being multicraft but some won't.


I agree with being multi-craft. Helps with trouble shooting in the industrial sector. If called to a problem, on a site that you have never been to before.

it will help in keeping the customer/ job or out of a bind when your tractor dies in the middle of the field and you still need to finish the field work.

to the OP.
just Keep your eye open and learn all you can. And above all know how to get out of the area you’re working in.

It’s one thing to get in a routine on a plant and get complacent with habits. Then when the alarm sounds and you freeze the a man lift or ladder. And run through the wrong area. It happens. So stay safe.

the wind socks are for a reason. And keep up with flagging.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

CAUSA said:


> I agree with being multi-craft. Helps with trouble shooting in the industrial sector. If called to a problem, on a site that you have never been to before.
> 
> it will help in keeping the customer/ job or out of a bind when your tractor dies in the middle of the field and you still need to finish the field work.
> 
> ...


That’s more true in mining and warehouses. You somehow have to have “eyes in the back of your head”. There are some work environments where you basically have to be totally aware of where you are at and what is happening around you at all times despite constant heavy equipment running all around you. In others you need to be ready to MOVE quickly. And still others like pulp and paper where 95% of the time the job is boring and they make up work to do. The other 5% of the time it’s all hands on deck around the clock until it’s back up and running.


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## Bourbon County (Aug 19, 2020)

I agree with the advice you've been given so far. Complete your education; your bachelors and apprenticeship. The bachelors might never be applicable but is great for your resume, same goes for your electrical license, not normally required in an industrial plant but again will boost your resume. Even if you have to enroll in a community college night course, get some training in PLCs, and VFDs. Another area for education would be some training in a computer maintenance management system. There are numerous versions of these on he market from numerous companies and even though some have attributes more applicable to that particular industry than another they mostly all do similar jobs even if they look a little different. These systems represent a huge capital investment for the company for the software, IT resources, system administrators, and training; I'm convinced a lot of the system choices businesses make are based on the skills of the sales people. It seems most places are using a version of this now and are trying to make everything analytical based by determining machine or component life cycle based on previous failures. It also provides a good historical record of machine failures that can be used to determine cost effectiveness to replace or update a machine. 

Industrial maintenance is a different skill set and a different mind set than construction. To further expand on the multi-skill concept in industry, more and more employers want to be able to send one person to a breakdown and be able to discern between an electrical and mechanical problem and repair either. Most mechanical problems will manifest electrically, but that's where it ends. A very simple example would be a pneumatic or hydraulic cylinder not reaching it's full extension and making whatever sensor is used to detect full extension and generate a fault. An electrician might just replace the sensor or adjust it and call it done; a multi-skilled person would look to see if the cylinder is actually reaching full extension. If it isn't next look at the solenoid valve, check to see if the cylinder was bypassing, the air or hydraulic pressure, and if the cylinder or the machine part it's moving is binding because of something like bad bearings. obviously a parts changer just guessing on the root cause of the problem is wasteful. To be a really good maintenance tech you have to understand the machine movements, the sequence of the movements, and the mechanical knowledge to know and understand the prime mover is for that movement. If the machine has been working properly, you have to resist the temptation to rebuild or rewire it. The value to the company is to keep the machines operating as efficiently as possible as long as possible.

The company I retired from (auto maker) had multi-skilled people and looked for proficiency in 4 main areas: electrical, industrial electronics, mechanical drives, and hydraulics/pneumatics. Welding, machining, fabrication, and plumbing were a slight plus but not a game changer if it wasn't there. They also had really good training programs for the skill sets you were lacking. 

Breaking into industrial maintenance might also require you to move to find a good job, don't know how you feel about that. The gulf coast area of TX and LA seems to have high concentrations of refineries and petro-chemical plants (both are pretty dangerous), the deep south has a lot of paper mills, the Pacific northwest has a lot of lumber and building materials industry, auto manufacturing seems to be moving to the southeast. If you limit your search to your back yard it might be much more difficult. One place that might be a good starting point is Amazon. They seem to have a hub or fulfillment center most everywhere you turn, and they seem to always be looking for maintenance folks. I never worked for them but attended numerous classes and seminars with some of their folks and they seemed happy with their wage/benefit package. Their facilities are highly automated and don't have a lot of big complex equipment, just miles of small parts conveyors and automated vehicles. 

I know from experience that industry is desperate for skilled trades and it's a trend that started 10-15 years ago, they will become even more desperate in this economy as more and more people are leaving their jobs. Be patient, finish your education(s) and try to expand your education into industrial skills as much as possible.
'


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

If you want to spend the rest of your career wiring houses or crawling in attics continue with the residential work.

But you don't sound like that's what you want to do.

But you do need to learn more about motor controls, PLC's and the other "technical" things you are interested in.

Will you learn any of that doing residential for how ever long the apprenticeship takes?
How long does a residential apprenticeship last?

Completing an apprenticeship program will show potential employers you will commit to getting a result.

I had to look up what a STEM Degree is, and to me, you are on the right path with that.

With the continuous advancement of automation, employers will be looking for well rounded, educated people to maintain the machines.

My first 14 years of electrical employment was as a commercial wireman.

Saw the writing on the wall, and decided to go back to school.

Obtained an Associates degree in Electrical Technology concentrating on motor controls and PLC's.

First job as an Electrical Maintenance Technician I was making 2 bucks more per hour than journeymen electricians in the area.

Texas has more than just refineries and chemical plants to offer.

I've worked maintenance in both and gave them up due to health concerns and driving distances.

I've worked in various production plants, bottle filling plants (water bottling, automotive fluid bottling, household cleaning product bottling), plastic extrusion plants (recycling plastic back to pellets), and currently in a food processing plant (healthy snacks foods).

I'm a "multi-talented" type of guy, or what production plants describe as "multi-craft".

Production plants are looking for employees that can do, and will do, work outside their primary craft.

Someone willing to work in the other crafts and has electrical experience will be their top choice.

The degree will make you even more desirable as an employee.


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## JakeELT101 (Sep 19, 2021)

Bourbon County said:


> I agree with the advice you've been given so far. Complete your education; your bachelors and apprenticeship. The bachelors might never be applicable but is great for your resume, same goes for your electrical license, not normally required in an industrial plant but again will boost your resume. Even if you have to enroll in a community college night course, get some training in PLCs, and VFDs. Another area for education would be some training in a computer maintenance management system. There are numerous versions of these on he market from numerous companies and even though some have attributes more applicable to that particular industry than another they mostly all do similar jobs even if they look a little different. These systems represent a huge capital investment for the company for the software, IT resources, system administrators, and training; I'm convinced a lot of the system choices businesses make are based on the skills of the sales people. It seems most places are using a version of this now and are trying to make everything analytical based by determining machine or component life cycle based on previous failures. It also provides a good historical record of machine failures that can be used to determine cost effectiveness to replace or update a machine.
> 
> Industrial maintenance is a different skill set and a different mind set than construction. To further expand on the multi-skill concept in industry, more and more employers want to be able to send one person to a breakdown and be able to discern between an electrical and mechanical problem and repair either. Most mechanical problems will manifest electrically, but that's where it ends. A very simple example would be a pneumatic or hydraulic cylinder not reaching it's full extension and making whatever sensor is used to detect full extension and generate a fault. An electrician might just replace the sensor or adjust it and call it done; a multi-skilled person would look to see if the cylinder is actually reaching full extension. If it isn't next look at the solenoid valve, check to see if the cylinder was bypassing, the air or hydraulic pressure, and if the cylinder or the machine part it's moving is binding because of something like bad bearings. obviously a parts changer just guessing on the root cause of the problem is wasteful. To be a really good maintenance tech you have to understand the machine movements, the sequence of the movements, and the mechanical knowledge to know and understand the prime mover is for that movement. If the machine has been working properly, you have to resist the temptation to rebuild or rewire it. The value to the company is to keep the machines operating as efficiently as possible as long as possible.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice, and your explanation of industrial maintenance. Its that skilled troubleshooting and mechanical ability of an industrial mechanic that makes me interested in the field.


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## JakeELT101 (Sep 19, 2021)

wiz1997 said:


> If you want to spend the rest of your career wiring houses or crawling in attics continue with the residential work.
> 
> But you don't sound like that's what you want to do.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for your insight and sharing your personal experiences, from what everyone is saying the electrical education is very important. After I get my degree in 2 semesters ill go to school for electrical technology .


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

The idea of predicting failure rates is doomed to failure but has been tried many times. It is fundamentally flawed. The idea is you can fit all failure data to a “bathtub curve”.

Heap and Nolan did a huge study that has been repeated several times. They identified 7 totally different failure patterns. The most common pattern is random failures for which failure prediction is utterly useless. It is especially common with electrical equipment. So only 1 or 2 of their failure patterns match the bathtub curve model.

But it’s even worse than that. Heap and Nolan were looking at say failures of a motor. There are multiple types of failures though so as you drill into the data it might not actually be random at all. Again the model breaks.

A further issue is when failures are say once every ten years or you only have one of something, again the model breaks.

The correct solution is three fold. First you do PMs on critical items when it makes sense. For example do you change the oil in your car? Do you check the air pressure in the tires? Finally do you check the coolant level in the AC? The first one is pretty important and almost everyone does it. The second is looking for “hidden failures” or maybe optimizing performance. It’s a good idea but not often done and has a cost associated with it (cost/benefit). The last one is similar but usually falls into “run to failure” unless you know you have a seal problem and just recharge it once s season.

If you treat every failure as an opportunity and try to determine why and look at alternatives you can perhaps improve reliability. If you look at each one, even giving it five minutes, you can slowly improve or even eliminate problems over time. It seems overkill at first but once you start rolling on it you quickly have more time to spend on it.

A lot of really crazy stuff is done in some industries, especially aircraft. Even automotive though looks at huge downtime costs. It causes people to do goofy things that are simply not applicable to ALL maintenance.


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