# Wire Pullers



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Got some huge pulls coming up (500 mcm +) Looking into buying a puller. We have one pull thats about 300 feet straight up that has to be feed from the bottom. Im looking at the Maxis brand, anyone use any of there pullers? I like that It will take a drill that I already own.

http://www.maxis-tools.com/product/pullit6000/


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I like the Maxis just fine.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> 500 mcm .....300 feet straight up that has to be feed from the bottom


Good God man.  Be careful with that one. 


I've heard stories.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I don't know if that model will pull 500s I've used them on smaller pulls and they work good. The big pulls get the greenlee tugger.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I have pulled 4/0 with a tugger like that one and it struggled. Could not get enough wraps on the pulley. 300' strait up I would suggest a tugger that won't unwind once you cut the power off after you have enough wire at the top so you can install the wedges. It will take some time to install 6 wedges, and you don't want the wire moving while you are working with those wedges.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

If you have not bought the wire,contact South Wire about their Simpul insulation. I'll bet they give you a lot of other info, as well. They guarantee that the pull will be easier.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> If you have not bought the wire,contact South Wire about their Simpul insulation. I'll bet they give you a lot of other info, as well. They guarantee that the pull will be easier.


 I would not wan't that simpul wire on a run that goes strait up 300'.:no:


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I would not wan't that simpul wire on a run that goes strait up 300'.:no:


They have the restraints, as well.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> They have the restraints, as well.


 What restraints do you speak of? Wedges?


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

william1978 said:


> What restraints do you speak of? Wedges?


Taking this back to Voltech because it is his job , I am only saying that South Wire guarantees the pull will be with 50% less effort. After that , they can give him as much info as he wants, even possibly going to the MC Cable which is available in feeder sizes. I have not used it: I have seen it, but the proof is in the pudding...and they said it is as slick as that, too.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> They have the restraints, as well.





william1978 said:


> What restraints do you speak of? Wedges?


 What do those restraints look like?


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

If you are pulling 500s get the greenlee ultra tugger. It is slow but it will pull you through a pipe if need be.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

mattsilkwood said:


> If you are pulling 500s get the greenlee ultra tugger. It is slow but it will pull you through a pipe if need be.


 That is the one that I would use also.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

william1978 said:


> What do those restraints look like?


I guess I don't really have an answer for that. My intention was to let the OP be aware of the Southwire guarantee, etc. I have only been to one showing of some of their line. It looked okay to me..I'm passing it on.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> I guess I don't really have an answer for that. My intention was to let the OP be aware of the Southwire guarantee, etc. I have only been to one showing of some of their line. It looked okay to me..I'm passing it on.


 OK I was just courious if there was something out there that would make the job a little easier.:thumbsup:


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

william1978 said:


> That is the one that I would use also.


 I had ours up to 7000 lbs once, according to the gauge. Needless to say I was getting pretty nervous but it just kept chugging away. That thing is a beast.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

mattsilkwood said:


> I had ours up to 7000 lbs once, according to the gauge. Needless to say I was getting pretty nervous but it just kept chugging away. That thing is a beast.


 I have pulled some pulls about 760'. Pulled a 3/0 in a 1" conduit that was 700' long and had 11 90's in it.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

william1978 said:


> OK I was just courious if there was something out there that would make the job a little easier.:thumbsup:


Actually, when you called me on it, I got to thinking, I DO remember them talking about the restraint but it may have been on a another cable assembly. I wasn't buying any and I guess I did not pay enough attention to that detail.They talked a good stick and I still think that Voltech would be well served to go to their site and could possibly talk to a rep. If you see him, tell him.


----------



## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

That sim-pull T-90 (THHN) is actually pretty good....makes a pull a lot easier! But I have not used it for anything over 3/0. And as for pulling 300' UP I don't think the MAXIS will handle that, you want a locking tugger. If that cable lets loose and goes down it could be a very bad situation!


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

For 500kcmil you be doing yourself a favor to use the Greenlee Super Tugger.

In regards to the "Simpull" insulation, it is very slick and for the love of god please do not use the basket for your head when doing vertical pulls.

I was on a job when 500kcmil slipped (simpull insulation) out of the basket on a vertical pull and fell straight down 5 stories:blink:!!!
Thank God no one was hurt. I was on the top floor when it happened sounded like a freight train was crashing into the building.

It's pretty safe to say that the guy who made the head up has never made another head on a pull again:laughing:...


----------



## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

This sounds like some really interesting work. Haven't used a puller before, or been on a job running 300' vertical runs like that. Can't wait to do it.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

william1978 said:


> What do those restraints look like?


The ones I have used I made, or not made for what I use them for. Im not sure what its called but I'll tell you anyways. I find some good steel above pull to tie off a chain to too. I use a rope grab that someone working off a swing stage to tile off to their safety harness would use. I tie another pull rope on the head and run it through the grab. One guy gets to pull that rope through the grab while pulling (usually me). It will hold a run great, but its real important to keep all slack out so if needed it wont stanch. Its also very important to tie the grab off to something that will break away if the pull fails. This way you can pull rope through the grab and not have to have your hands on it. Make use your tie back (chain) it tight too. Also never talk about this in your OSHA class


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

GDK 13 said:


> This sounds like some really interesting work. Haven't used a puller before, or been on a job running 300' vertical runs like that. Can't wait to do it.


I enjoy runnin large conduit. Here is a few pic's of vertical raceway's. The 5 on the right are power and the 10--4" are data. The 5 are for feeders. 2-3 1/2" are emergency and 3-3" are normal.


----------



## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> For 500kcmil you be doing yourself a favor to use the Greenlee Super Tugger.
> 
> In regards to the "Simpull" insulation, it is very slick and for the love of god please do not use the basket for your head when doing vertical pulls.
> 
> ...



I wasn't on the pull but was in the mech room next to the electrical room where a 250mcm AL run straight up 7 floors fell when whatever they did at the top didn't hold. Thought the building was coming down around me. Just destroyed all the wire, took 3 of us a few hours to cut it up with saws alls and get it out of the room, few good bruises but no real injuries. 

I've heard about pulling down and having it get out of control too, but never seen it.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Got some huge pulls coming up (500 mcm +) Looking into buying a puller. We have one pull thats about 300 feet straight up that has to be feed from the bottom. Im looking at the Maxis brand, anyone use any of there pullers? I like that It will take a drill that I already own.
> 
> http://www.maxis-tools.com/product/pullit6000/


That vertical run of 500 will get about 50' into the pipe and pull that little tugger and everyone around it in like a black hole.

That is not the right tool for the job.
It would be safer to hire someone with the right equipment to pull that cable in for you.

Someone here might have a link to a calculator that will help understand the weight and friction for that type of pull. I suspect that it will exceed the rating of that small tugger.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I tend to agree with jrannis

if you are using alum xhhw, the weight alone (static) of the 300' vertical section x 4 conductors would be around 700 lbs (I thought it would be more but here's southwire specs http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/proddetail.jsp?htmlpreview=true&token=3&desc=AL-XHHW)

I was doing an office store and next door some guys were pulling in a short run of 300's with one of those maxis and it did ok, but I would have 2 decent tuggers working that vertical run if it were me

here's a pulling calculator if that helps

http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/traywirepull.htm


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You can rent a puller from these guys instead of buying one..

http://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/category.aspx?id=s294


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

jrannis said:


> That vertical run of 500 will get about 50' into the pipe and pull that little tugger and everyone around it in like a black hole.
> 
> That is not the right tool for the job.
> It would be safer to hire someone with the right equipment to pull that cable in for you.
> ...


 
Oh I understand, I have done many vertical pulls. I will most likly rent a large tugger and attach a safety line as I explained above


----------



## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Good God man.  Be careful with that one.
> 
> 
> I've heard stories.


I would strongly advise you not to rely on a basket for a pull like that, it is much safer to serve a head on the cable ( voice of experience).


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

william1978 said:


> I enjoy runnin large conduit. Here is a few pic's of vertical raceway's. The 5 on the right are power and the 10--4" are data. The 5 are for feeders. 2-3 1/2" are emergency and 3-3" are normal.


 Me to. It's easier to make a rack full of 3" look good than it is a a bunch of little pipes.


----------



## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

riveter is right about simpull. our boss used some of their stuff pulling feeders for a huge bowling alley/ restaurant and the wire we pulled from simpull was alot easier then some of the other bigger pulls i have worked with.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

While your buying that new tugger, you might want to consider the greenlee wire feeder also. That thing is the bomb.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> While your buying that new tugger, you might want to consider the greenlee wire feeder also. That thing is the bomb.


 That thing will pay for itself if you got alot of pulls to make.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

sync that thing with the tugger speed and watch out!!!


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Make sure whatever you use for a tugger that all your pulleys, sheeves, rope, clevis and all that are rated for the force that the tugger will put out.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

dawgs said:


> Make sure whatever you use for a tugger that all your pulleys, sheeves, rope, clevis and all that are rated for the force that the tugger will put out.


 I agree. It is only as strong as the weakest link.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

edward said:


> riveter is right about simpull. our boss used some of their stuff pulling feeders for a huge bowling alley/ restaurant and the wire we pulled from simpull was alot easier then some of the other bigger pulls i have worked with.


I have been on a few pulls with Southwire's Simpull (up to 500s), and the only drawback to it that I have seen is that when pulling it off the spools by hand to 'stage' it (terminology?) really is a b**tch, because you have to grip the wire so much more to keep a hold on it and even be able to pull off the spools. It's _that_ slippery! 'Specially when you're the lucky one pulling 3 at a time . I recall it was 3 or 4 parallel sets of 4 500s with a 250 GND, perhaps? This was about 2 years ago. I was only about 2 months into my IBEW apprenticeship. So my 1st pull was actually 500MCM.

Maybe I'm just dumb... and still new... but it would seem like the tugger (called a chugger around here  ?), would pull the conductors off the spools instead of doing it by hand. I suppose the building layout (small rooms, hallways, corners and such) may not allow this, always.

I've seen guys pushing wires into conduit that was being pulled by a tugger :blink:. I can see guiding it in, but seriously... pushing it?? ...like it wouldn't go if he wasn't pushing it? :001_huh:

On my first pull with 500s, I had to lift all 4 500s off the floor, soap it (this wasn't Simpull or the JWs didn't trust it -or know what it is :blink, guide it into the 4in. PVC that was at floor level going into the slab. ...3 times. We did 3 sets of parallel 500s. ... or was it 4 sets...

These threads/posts are very useful to me. Some of this gear I have not even seen yet. ...*Ultra* Tugger, Greenlee wire feeder, methods of attachment. 

I have made up heads on rope and used pulling heads. *(Is this the 'basket' referred to previously)?* Steel cables with sleeves that use set screws to pull the stripped conductor ends, all connected together.


----------



## GDK 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I enjoy runnin large conduit. Here is a few pic's of vertical raceway's. The 5 on the right are power and the 10--4" are data. The 5 are for feeders. 2-3 1/2" are emergency and 3-3" are normal.


those are some awesome pictures. wow!


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> I have been on a few pulls with Southwire's Simpull (up to 500s), and the only drawback to it that I have seen is that when pulling it off the spools by hand to 'stage' it (terminology?) really is a b**tch, because you have to grip the wire so much more to keep a hold on it and even be able to pull off the spools. It's _that_ slippery! 'Specially when you're the lucky one pulling 3 at a time . I recall it was 3 or 4 parallel sets of 4 500s with a 250 GND, perhaps? This was about 2 years ago. I was only about 2 months into my IBEW apprenticeship. So my 1st pull was actually 500MCM.
> 
> Maybe I'm just dumb... and still new... but it would seem like the tugger (called a chugger around here  ?), would pull the conductors off the spools instead of doing it by hand. I suppose the building layout (small rooms, hallways, corners and such) may not allow this, always.
> 
> ...


Those are fingers, The baskets are like Chinese a handcuffs.


----------



## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> I've seen guys pushing wires into conduit that was being pulled by a tugger :blink:. I can see guiding it in, but seriously... pushing it?? ...like it wouldn't go if he wasn't pushing it? :001_huh:
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


----------



## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> While your buying that new tugger, you might want to consider the greenlee wire feeder also. That thing is the bomb.


I agree with this 100%. You should use the wire feeder at the TOP of the pull and pull down. This thing will allow you to slow the pull down ( gravity will take that head for a ride). Bolted securely, they are invaluable. 300 feet is way too long with that size cable for a Maxis. If you insist on pulling UP, Super Tugger. I just got off a 450' horizontal pull and the Maxis couldn't get it up the last 90. Super Tugger got it just fine.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> I would strongly advise you not to rely on a basket for a pull like that, it is much safer to serve a head on the cable ( *voice of experience*).


We want DETAILS!


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

*wire puller*

Well heres what we use 300 foot or 1000 foot up or down but mostly we let it drop down with a wire brake .

I like fingers but most people dont put a basket on right theres a way to put it on so it dont come off ever .

Its been a while since i posted had too cool off a little !









Its not the tugger its how you rig it thats the key point a sheave or a pully is you best friend .

Its not the raps on the tugger but how many sheaves you can use to increase you pulling force the one in the picture is home made by me and our tugger is a direct drive it can pull 750 copper up 35 stories with no problem .


Key is use double raps on the sheaves not your tugger and use more sheaves this way when you add raps on tugger it increases your force four times what you normally could get with the tugger alone !


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

piperunner said:


> Its not the tugger its how you rig it thats the key point a sheave or a pully is you best friend .
> 
> Its not the raps on the tugger *but how many sheaves you can use to increase you pulling force *the one in the picture is home made by me and our tugger is a direct drive it can pull 750 copper up 35 stories with no problem .
> 
> ...


Not one bit of that is true. :no:

Extra sheaves, extra wraps on the sheaves only decreases the amount the tension the puller can exert on the conductors.

It seems you have sheaves kind of confused with a pair of sheaves set up in a block and tackle fashion.


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Bob your a little confused we kinda pull lots of wire and we know how seems like you need a lesson in wire pulling .:thumbsup:


Every time i come back on this forum theres a issue do you do electrical work ?

If you look at the set up you will see it is a block and tackle and yes double raps on the sheaves does decrease pulling force on tugger but the force on wire is doubled .

So your tugger used last for ten years and motors do not burn up and at 3000lbs of force on wire your at 1600 on the tugger if you use a tension gauge when your pulling wire .


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

piperunner said:


> Bob your a little confused we kinda pull lots of wire and we know how seems like you need a lesson in wire pulling .


OK teach me. :thumbsup:



> do you do electrical work ?


No, I run a hair salon. :jester:



> If you look at the set up you will see it is a block and tackle and yes double raps on the sheaves does decrease pulling force on tugger but the force on wire is doubled .



I see no block and tackle set up.



> So your tugger used last for ten years and motors do not burn up and at 3000lbs of force on wire your at 1600 on the tugger if you use a tension gauge when your pulling wire .


:no:

Simple question.

When the rope comes out of your rig is it still traveling at the same speed at when it went into rig?










Yes or no?

The answer is yes, so all you have done is increased the friction.

Of course it is important to use sheaves to make sure you are pulling straight out of the raceway.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

goose134 said:


> I agree with this 100%. You should use the wire feeder at the TOP of the pull and pull down. This thing will allow you to slow the pull down ( gravity will take that head for a ride). Bolted securely, they are invaluable. 300 feet is way too long with that size cable for a Maxis. If you insist on pulling UP, Super Tugger. I just got off a 450' horizontal pull and the Maxis couldn't get it up the last 90. Super Tugger got it just fine.



Every time I worked for a contractor that maxis thing is in a baseball bag in a crap load of pieces all bent to sh*t. The greenlee tugger is one tuff mo fo. Bolt it or strap it and your ready for business.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

piperunner said:


> Well heres what we use 300 foot or 1000 foot up or down but mostly we let it drop down with a wire brake .
> 
> I like fingers but most people dont put a basket on right theres a way to put it on so it dont come off ever .
> 
> ...



Although that contraption probably helps you with your pulls, It is all about the wraps and the tugger. Try pulling some 500's with just one wrap. Your right about the basket a lot of people just slide them on. I like to put a little tie wire on the rear just as insurance then duct tape.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

What are y'all calling a sheaves? The pulleys?


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> Every time I worked for a contractor that maxis thing is in a baseball bag in a crap load of pieces all bent to sh*t. The greenlee tugger is one tuff mo fo. Bolt it or strap it and your ready for business.


 I agree 100%. That thing would always be bent all up.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

A shiv to me is the insert for a pipe with a little wheel attached.


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> OK teach me. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well Bob look at the pulleys or sheaves the rope is double rap on big sheave it then travels under bottom sheave this is a increase in pulling force the speed is slower on the top sheave because its larger then then small ones and the rope has to move faster on the smaller ones due to the tugger speed . The rope has to travel more then if one sheave was used by the size of the pulley or sheave but it increases pullin force lots of pull .
Motor runs cooler and it can pull lots of big wire all day long. 
Call it what you want pulley or sheave its all the same a wheel if you like . Speed changes in the size of the pulleys/sheaves/wheels


This thing doesnt bolt down to floor its on wheels you can flip it up side down in a manhole and pull with out tie down .

Weve been using it for many years its made of scrap steel welded .


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

I think the rope is going the same speed around all wheels. The wheels are just turning faster at smaller sizes.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Loose Neutral said:


> I think the rope is going the same speed around all wheels. The wheels are just turning faster at smaller sizes.


 Yes, that is what I think also.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

From the looks of the picture where is the conduit coming in the panel that is being pulled, because the rope doesn't look to be coming up at a odd angle. Do you have any other pic's of this set up?


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

william1978 said:


> From the looks of the picture where is the conduit coming in the panel that is being pulled, because the rope doesn't look to be coming up at a odd angle. Do you have any other pic's of this set up?


Well we sure do let me post some more .

The rope moves slower on big sheave the rope moves faster on small sheave and thats no bull.


The cabinet or ATS encloser is about 32 inches deep yes were pullin at a angle out of this ATS.


----------



## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

220/221 said:


> We want DETAILS!


 
The procedure I learned many years ago and used successfully on many long and difficult pulls was as follows: strip the insulation back from the end of the cable for a distance of 18 -24 inches , remove the center strands leaving 4 strands on opposing sides, bend the groups back at 6 inches 180 degrees towards each other and through the device or loop that will do the pulling,
Then take the ends of the strands one at a time and wrap them tightly around the bundle of strands using your Kleins for leverage, you will see a compact strong bundle being formed , When you feel comfortable with the head you have made you can cut off the excess strands. This method has never failed me. I hope I have described the process clearly. BillW


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

william1978 said:


> From the looks of the picture where is the conduit coming in the panel that is being pulled, because the rope doesn't look to be coming up at a odd angle. Do you have any other pic's of this set up?










This is a electrician rolling up the rope while were tugging the wire







This is how the tugger attaches we have used two tuggers on frame same size at one time pull of 1800 feet .


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

piperunner said:


> The rope moves slower on big sheave the rope moves faster on small sheave and thats no bull.


Yeah the different size sheaves would have different RPMs but the FPM (feet per minute) of the rope remains constant. That means your rig only adds resistance, it does not add any power at all.


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah the different size sheaves would have different RPMs but the FPM (feet per minute) of the rope remains constant. That means your rig only adds resistance, it does not add any power at all.



Well your wrong Bob it does lots of pull power you need to come out to our job and see for yourself can you come to florida ?

Its kinda like a crane system of multiple raps on pulleys or capstands its bad news .


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

piperunner said:


> Well your wrong Bob it does lots of pull power you need to come out to our job and see for yourself can you come to florida ?
> 
> Its kinda like a crane system of multiple raps on pulleys or capstands its bad news .


Does this forum have video can i show you a movie ?


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

*I want to learn...*

Situation:
Let's say a load or weight to be lifted or pulled up is 1000lbs.

If I run a rope straight up and over the top of one pulley and pull down on the other side, I will be pulling 1000lbs. (or 100%) of the load weight on my rope end.

Question:
If I have a pulley below the top one any distance and run my rope from the load up over the top pulley, down around the bottom of the lower pulley, then straight up and over the top pulley again, when I pull down on the rope, what will be the weight that I am pulling if the load is 1000lbs? 

Answer?


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

All the pulleys in the world that change direction and not effect force. Rigging a block and tackle will change force.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> Situation:
> Let's say a load or weight to be lifted or pulled up is 1000lbs.
> 
> If I run a rope straight up and over the top of one pulley and pull down on the other side, I will be pulling 1000lbs. (or 100%) of the load weight on my rope end.
> ...


If you rig it with one sheave at the bottom and only one sheave at the top your 1000 pounds will take 500 pounds to move it, but the load will move only half as far as you pull the rope.

If you rig it with one sheave at the bottom and two sheaves at the top your 1000 pounds will take 333 pounds to move it, but the load will move only 1/3 as far as you pull the rope.


A block and tackle swaps speed for power, not much different than how a transformer swaps voltage for current.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> If you rig it with one sheave at the bottom and only one sheave at the top your 1000 pounds will take 500 pounds to move it, but the load will move only half as far as you pull the rope.
> 
> ...A block and tackle swaps speed for power...


So, I agree with Bob and drsparky, yes?

So the answer is a method of using 500 lbs of force to pull 1000lbs. load is to wrap a rope around a group of pulleys. Multiple wraps around the same pulley don't reduce weight, they only prevent slip by increasing friction.

I understand the 2:1 ratio of distance that Bob B. mentioned.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

BP_redbear said:


> So the answer is a method of using 500 lbs of force to pull 1000lbs. load is to wrap a rope around a group of pulleys.


Not exactly, not just a 'bunch of pulleys' a group of pulleys set up in certain ways.

As the Doctor said ....



drsparky said:


> All the pulleys in the world that change direction and not effect force. Rigging a block and tackle will change force.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> Not exactly, not just a 'bunch of pulleys' a group of pulleys set up in certain ways.
> 
> As the Doctor said ....


Like the situation that I described, with the two pulleys, arranged in a certain, specific way...
...is a block and tackle arrangement?



Does piperunner have any sort of block and tackle setup?


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> The procedure I learned many years ago and used successfully on many long and difficult pulls was as follows: strip the insulation back from the end of the cable for a distance of 18 -24 inches , remove the center strands leaving 4 strands on opposing sides, bend the groups back at 6 inches 180 degrees towards each other and through the device or loop that will do the pulling,
> Then take the ends of the strands one at a time and wrap them tightly around the bundle of strands using your Kleins for leverage, you will see a compact strong bundle being formed , When you feel comfortable with the head you have made you can cut off the excess strands. This method has never failed me. I hope I have described the process clearl


What fun is that? I wanted details of your failures


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley


Does that show what I described? (Both pulleys being fixed in place, was my intention).

Is piperunner claiming to have a block and tackle arrangement setup, and everyone disagreeing with him?

Is piperunner's claim of required pulling force reduction based solely on wraps around each pulley, and that some pulleys are different diameters than others?


----------



## cal1947 (Nov 14, 2009)

*cal 1947*

i have not used the simpul wire yet ,but i think they can be ordered with hypress heads with steel cable


wwilson174 said:


> I would strongly advise you not to rely on a basket for a pull like that, it is much safer to serve a head on the cable ( voice of experience).


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Many pulley mechanical images:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CB8QsAQwAw

Even looking through a couple of books, all images appear to show a load being lifted a relatively short distance, and with one block or pulley attached to the load.

They talk about the load being applied to a beam overhead, and such. Vectors, load line, fall line...
More for rigging a piece of equipment, not a long, continuous pull.

If we are talking about pulling or lifting, essentially, a load 300 or more feet, then the pulleys would have to be fastened in place. I can't really find anything yet that shows something more relevant to our situations.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley


*"Block and tackle* - A _block and tackle_ is a compound pulley where *several pulleys are mounted on each axle*, further increasing the mechanical advantage. Block and tackles usually lift objects with a mechanical advantage greater than 2."

(from Bob's Wikipedia link).


----------



## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

220/221 said:


> What fun is that? I wanted details of your failures


There were none, Experience can be gained by observation!


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

wwilson174 said:


> The procedure I learned many years ago and used successfully on many long and difficult pulls was as follows: strip the insulation back from the end of the cable for a distance of 18 -24 inches , remove the center strands leaving 4 strands on opposing sides, bend the groups back at 6 inches 180 degrees towards each other and through the device or loop that will do the pulling,
> Then take the ends of the strands one at a time and wrap them tightly around the bundle of strands using your Kleins for leverage, you will see a compact strong bundle being formed , When you feel comfortable with the head you have made you can cut off the excess strands. This method has never failed me. I hope I have described the process clearly. BillW


That's how I was taught, with the exception that I don'twrap the individual strands around. I learned to just fold the strands straight back, making sure they don't lay on top of the insulation.

Take tie wire, about a 3 ft piece. Double it back. Wrap twice around the head of strands. Twist with side cutters snug. Pry it tighter with the side cutters, using lever action. Twist more snug. Fold it back. Do this again once over the insulation area. Duct Tape over everything.

One neat tip someone else showed me is take a piece of tie wire. Feed it through the rope eye. Lay it along the head. Tape everything up. After the pull, grab the tie wire and rip upward. It opens the duct tape wrap like a zipper!!


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

wwilson174 said:


> There were none, Experience can be gained by observation!


Just curious... 

when you wrap the individual strands around the head to form it up neatly, are they all wrapped in the same direction? And, like a coarse thread screw or fine thread? (as far as how many wraps, how tight a spiral)

How does wrapping the next strand not loosen up the previous strands?


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah the different size sheaves would have *different RPMs but the FPM (feet per minute) of the rope remains constant.* That means your rig only adds resistance, it does not add any power at all.


:thumbsup:


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

piperunner said:


> Does this forum have video can i show you a movie ?


 Up load one to youtube then just post the link


----------



## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

BP_redbear said:


> Just curious...
> 
> when you wrap the individual strands around the head to form it up neatly, are they all wrapped in the same direction? And, like a coarse thread screw or fine thread? (as far as how many wraps, how tight a spiral)
> 
> How does wrapping the next strand not loosen up the previous strands?


The strands are wrapped in the same direction, each wrap butted against the previous , the result is a solid pulling head which will give you confidence in a successful pull. Pulling cable is one of the most dangerous jobs that electricians perform, most of us don't do it often enough to be really good at it, we are dealing with forces and tensions far greater than those with which we are familiar. We would do well to get the advice of an experienced journeyman when we need it.Good luck,BillW.


----------



## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

I still say pull down, not up. Use the feeder as a brake.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

I'd love to see pics of the Greenlee ultra tugger, and the mentioned wire feeder, and whatever brake device exists, in use together, in action.

Along with pics of the technique used on serving the wire into a head on that particular pull, with specs; wire size, # of conductors, type of wire (no-lube Simpull or other, type and size of conduit, length of pull, # of bends, etc...

...temp of room, outside temp, time of day, # of electricians on the pull, task of each, gloves, etc.  :jester:

Some of that is sarcasm... :blink:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

* Ultra Tugger 5 Cable Puller Package
What's special about Greenlee Cable Puller?

Wheeled carriage and boom make for speedy setup with no anchors to set or chains to mount.
50% faster than other pullers.
Package includes: Standard force gauge, wheeled carriage, 3 ft boom, elbow unit and floor mount.
20,000 lbs minimum breaking strength.
5000 lbs pull force.
For use with Greenlee Double Braided Rope 35098 and 35100.
Made in the USA.
One year warranty.
Click here for more features
*


*
















<LI style="POSITION: static">







*

*Greenlee 6810 Features: 

Feeds cable at variable speeds to match the speed of cable puller.
Accommodates cable ranging in size up to 3.5" (88.9 mm) in diameter.
Sets up easily and can be operated by just one person.
Dual motors drive each wheel for traction on both sides of the cable.
Comes with pendant and toggle switch. An optional foot switch (445) is available to control feeding.
Two cable loading methods; top-loading and end-loading.
*
*Greenlee 6810 Specifications: 

Power Supply: 115 VAC, 15 amps, 60 Hz
Speed: 4-36 feet per minute (1.2-11 meters per minute)
Maximum Tractive Force Single Cable: 200 lbs. (.9 kN)
Maximum Tractive Force All Cables: 800 lbs. (3.5 kN)
Cable Capacity:
Quantity x Size
-- 8 x 250 MCM (120 mm2)
-- 6 x 500 MCM (240 mm2)
-- 5 x 750 MCM (300 mm2)
*


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

drooling


----------



## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Well heres our wire feeder in action i will post a tugger movie as soon as i can get it to work i must re format its kinda 10 years old but will find a way photo bucket will not function .




















We use fingers most of the time !
When you use a tension meter it pulls less when we rap the loops one pulley to the next pulley then with out .

But your not seeing how we rap or apply the loops from pulley to pulley its not just a loop on one its a loop from one to the other pulley which is like a tackle & block iam going to show you how its done wait for my movie coming soon to you as soon and i find a converter to change the format photobucket will not accept format.


----------



## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

piperunner said:


> Well heres our wire feeder in action i will post a tugger movie as soon as i can get it to work i must re format its kinda 10 years old but will find a way photo bucket will not function .
> 
> ...
> 
> But your not seeing how we rap or apply the loops from pulley to pulley its not just a loop on one its a loop from one to the other pulley which is like a tackle & block iam going to show you how its done wait for my movie coming soon to you as soon and i find a converter to change the format photobucket will not accept format.


that will be cool!


----------

