# Mystery?



## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

Went up to help a neighbor yesterday, and he had two GFCI's that were tripped. One feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and the gas range the other feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and his Direct TV equipment (one amp, two splitters, and one power supply). Reset both ran both pumps with TV and UV lights on and neither GFCI tripped. We had some wind the night before and they said their lights were flickering. Went back there this morning and only one of the GFCI's had tripped Direct TV equipment, Condensate pump and UV filter. Thought about changing GFCI to see if the issue resolved. Anyone else encounter something similar? I'm scratching my head since I can't get it o act up while I am there.


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## circuitman1 (Mar 14, 2013)

could be some leakage on some of the connected equipment.moisture in the air could help cause the leakage to increase when there is a lot of moisture in the air. these can be a pain.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

Moisture is a good suggestion. It has been humid, but not abnormally so. It is curious that it has not tripped in seven plus years, but now is.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

bigdan1 said:


> Went up to help a neighbor yesterday, and he had two GFCI's that were tripped. One feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and the gas range the other feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and his Direct TV equipment (one amp, two splitters, and one power supply). Reset both ran both pumps with TV and UV lights on and neither GFCI tripped. We had some wind the night before and they said their lights were flickering. Went back there this morning and only one of the GFCI's had tripped Direct TV equipment, Condensate pump and UV filter. Thought about changing GFCI to see if the issue resolved. Anyone else encounter something similar? I'm scratching my head since I can't get it o act up while I am there.


That's so commonplace, it doesn't even concern me. 
A power dip or surge, or a lightning strike, in the area, will trip at least two.
My workshop, warehouse has seven GFCI's and after a storm, will have tripped GFCI's. Just reset them, everything good.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

retiredsparktech said:


> That's so commonplace, it doesn't even concern me.
> A power dip or surge, or a lightning strike, in the area, will trip at least two.
> My workshop, warehouse has seven GFCI's and after a storm, will have tripped GFCI's. Just reset them, everything good.



The problem is one keeps tripping about every 24 hours.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

bigdan1 said:


> Went up to help a neighbor yesterday, and he had two GFCI's that were tripped. One feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and the gas range the other feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and his Direct TV equipment (one amp, two splitters, and one power supply). Reset both ran both pumps with TV and UV lights on and neither GFCI tripped. _* We had some wind the night before and they said their lights were flickering.*_ Went back there this morning and only one of the GFCI's had tripped Direct TV equipment, Condensate pump and UV filter. Thought about changing GFCI to see if the issue resolved. Anyone else encounter something similar? I'm scratching my head since I can't get it o act up while I am there.


Clue #1 highlighted above.



bigdan1 said:


> The problem is one keeps tripping about every 24 hours.


Because there is still a problem you haven't fixed yet. :thumbsup:



retiredsparktech said:


> That's so commonplace, it doesn't even concern me.
> _*A power dip or surge, or a lightning strike, in the area, will trip at least two.*_
> My workshop, warehouse has seven GFCI's and after a storm, will have tripped GFCI's. Just reset them, everything good.


Clue # 2 highlighted above. 


Bigdan, read the two clues carefully and the problem will reveal itself and give you one key thing to look at. :thumbup:


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

Slick,

I agree that there is still a problem. Voltages are stable at least when I am there, even in yesterdays wind. Neutral, hots and grounds all tight through the meter can and two breaker panels. My next thought is call utility to check connections on the pole, however in my area it's difficult to get them to come out for that.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

One more thought is that there is something else in the house coming on intermittently that is causing a dip in voltage. I am a little reluctant on this idea simply because it is the same GFCI tripping.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

bigdan1 said:


> Slick,
> 
> I agree that there is still a problem. Voltages are stable at least when I am there, even in yesterdays wind. Neutral, hots and grounds all tight through the meter can and two breaker panels. *My next thought is call utility to check connections on the pole, however in my area it's difficult to get them to come out for that.*


That's the answer to your problem. :thumbup:

Light a fire under them and get them out there as in right now..you have either a loose connection at the pole or a bad service drop that's on the way to failing. (Make them check for any spots in contact with tree branches and at the strain points.) 

I'm betting you will find either a loose neutral connection or the bare neutral on the drop has worn through at some point. Either one is bad news if it isn't fixed. If there is a wear spot, make them change the entire drop, not just splice it. Splices on that neutral (which also acts as the messenger support) WILL fail again under the strain. 

If you need to, get a supervisor on the phone to motivate them into sending a crew...most of the talking heads who answer the call-in lines don't have a clue and won't exactly go out of their way to get a crew dispatched..unless the power is completely out or lines are down. (And sometimes not even then.) 

Let us know what they find.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

I called them a few minutes ago and talked to one of the engineers I used to work with, with the hope that he could be a bit more helpful in getting some guys out there. Waiting on a call back. Will let you know what they find.


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## ButcherSlayer (Oct 4, 2013)

Wouldn't a pole or service connection effect the whole or half of the house? Not just a gfi? Makes no sense


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

ButcherSlayer said:


> Wouldn't a pole or service connection effect the whole or half of the house? Not just a gfi? Makes no sense


I tend to think this way.

Not saying you don't have a service neutral issue, but I'm not sure that is the GFI problem.

How does a Direct TV system get wired? Does the antenna take any power (I wouldn't think so, but ..?)?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

bigdan1 said:


> The problem is one keeps tripping about every 24 hours.


How many days in a row?


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

ButcherSlayer said:


> Wouldn't a pole or service connection effect the whole or half of the house? Not just a gfi? Makes no sense


It's a great observation on your part! 
Are both GFCI's on the same leg, that feeds that side of the house. As others have mentioned, maybe it's a neutral problem.
This is what makes this trade interesting. There's so many variables.
Maybe a starting point, would be is replacing both GFCI's. If they're the same age, maybe the electronic components are ageing and are too sensitive.
Many commercial establishments, just replace them after a few years, as they feel that they can't be trusted.


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## ButcherSlayer (Oct 4, 2013)

retiredsparktech said:


> It's a great observation on your part!
> Are both GFCI's on the same leg, that feeds that side of the house. As others have mentioned, maybe it's a neutral problem.
> This is what makes this trade interesting. There's so many variables.
> Maybe a starting point, would be is replacing both GFCI's. If they're the same age, maybe the electronic components are ageing and are too sensitive.
> Many commercial establishments, just replace them after a few years, as they feel that they can't be trusted.


Lol yes I agree. I love my trade an what I do. It's a never ending learning experience. If you stop learning in this trade them something is wrong with you. But where are the gfi`s located?


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

The same GFCI has been tripping for three days. The other has only tripped one time. They are on the same leg. I replaced the one that keeps tripping yesterday so we will see. The wind and the lights flickering I think is the main indication the there could be some thing loose at the transformer. The antenna does not have power just a coaxial cable.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

Well, the new GFCI tripped as well but I am now leaning toward one of the devices for the direct TV. Either the Amp or power supply, Direct TV said that they have had some problems with them failing. I am going to still have the utility come out this evening and check the connections at the pole since my neighbor mentioned lights flickering in the wind and some other electrical issues in storms, but these may be separate issues. Especially since I found all sorts of neglected electrical problems just from looking into this particular problem. I think they got motivated mostly because this issue effected their television. 

Lord knows we have to have TV or we'll be bored out of our minds. Kind of like Electrician Talk.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Please be sure to let us know what the problem/s is/are when you find out.

Thanks.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

Well came out and re crimped the connections at the transformer and checked the strain relief before the wire comes down the pole. Hopefully this will address the wind and lights flickering. Direct TV made it out yesterday and changed out their equipment. It tripped again over night and this morning. I know the GFCI is tripping when the condensate pump is unplugged, but I couldn't remember if the UV light has been plugged in when its tripping, so I have it unplugged now with just the pump and the TV equipment plugged in. Waiting to hear if trips again.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

Just called the neighbor and the GFCI did not trip last night or today, with just the condensate pump and Direct TV equipment plugged in. So it must be the ballast or the two UV lights that are causing it to trip. We will have to see if the lights still flicker in a storm since the utility was only here on Friday.

Thanks for the interest and out of curiosity what would cause the ballast and lamps to trip the GFCI? I am curious if it could be a moisture issue since it has been abnormally cool for July here if the air handler doesn't run long enough at a time to get enough moisture to run off and instead sits on the refrigerant line long enough to evaporate and end up in the filter box where the ballast and lamps are (just above). A long shoot I know.


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## cdub347 (Jun 26, 2014)

Did u say they were using splitters ?.. Maybe try taking those off and see if it holds I've had issues with splitters tripping breakers and gfis before 


Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Glen and Cdub, 

Re-read post number 20. I did change the GFCI, but I have found the problem to be the UV light in the air filter for the air handler. My only curiosity is why two UV tubes and a ballast would have such an intermittent problem. They run for 12 hours trip GFCI, run another 6 hours trip GFCI, Etc. Again I am just curious at this point they don't really care about the lights so they are just un-hooked now.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

What are these UV lights for, and do they have to be GFCI protected?


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## hmk (Jan 10, 2013)

IslandGuy said:


> What are these UV lights for, and do they have to be GFCI protected?


They sound like UV filters for a central air system. Basically a UV light inside the return of the air handler. The ones I have run into are cord and plug connected. If located in a basement, would need to be plugged into a GFCI receptacle. 

I am having the same issue with a recent install, the GFCI receptacle trips occasionally.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

hmk said:


> They sound like UV filters for a central air system. Basically a UV light inside the return of the air handler. The ones I have run into are cord and plug connected. If located in a basement, would need to be plugged into a GFCI receptacle.
> 
> I am having the same issue with a recent install, the GFCI receptacle trips occasionally.


This is exactly the situation.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Well, it seems like the OP has a grasp on the problem now. My approach would have been to individually GFCI protect each item on the circuit to isolate which one was causing the issue, then go from there.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

bigdan1 said:


> Went up to help a neighbor yesterday, and he had two GFCI's that were tripped. One feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and the gas range the other feed a condensate pump, UV air filter, and his Direct TV equipment (one amp, two splitters, and one power supply). Reset both ran both pumps with TV and UV lights on and neither GFCI tripped. We had some wind the night before and they said their lights were flickering. Went back there this morning and only one of the GFCI's had tripped Direct TV equipment, Condensate pump and UV filter. Thought about changing GFCI to see if the issue resolved. Anyone else encounter something similar? I'm scratching my head since I can't get it o act up while I am there.


Flickering lights during a windy day you say?
I suspect the service drop.
Something's rotting.


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## bigdan1 (Jun 16, 2013)

The service comes off a pole mounted transformer the underground. Since the utility has been out there they haven't had any more problems. I believe this is one of those instances where there were multiple things wrong. Some of which had been wrong for a while and when the TV went off that was the final straw.


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## StevieScott (Jul 26, 2014)

Is it damage like this? Please upload a picture of it. It will help me and also other's to suggest you the best for you.


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