# Single Phase Motor wants to be reversed



## Empowered

I am working for a farmer who would like one of his single phase motors to be able to reverse. It runs a grain auger and would like to bump it if it gets plugged. I know its not as easy to reverse a single phase in comparison to a 3 phase, but i know it can be done. I'm not sure how though but I think of a corded drill or a standard ceiling fan both of which can be reversed with the touch of a switch. At the moment, the motor is low voltage controlled with a hand/off/auto. Let me know if you need any more specs on the motor or control wiring to make this happen. The farmer is pretty anal about getting this done and so cost isn't really an issue. Thanks.


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## RIVETER

Never done it but maybe alter the current through the start winding, if accessible.


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## John Valdes

If the motor leads are marked swap lead 5 & lead 8. If the leads are color coded swap the black lead and the red lead.

Most motors have a wiring diagram right on the nameplate. Have you looked at it?


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## McClary’s Electrical

Empowered said:


> I am working for a farmer who would like one of his single phase motors to be able to reverse. It runs a grain auger and would like to bump it if it gets plugged. I know its not as easy to reverse a single phase in comparison to a 3 phase, but i know it can be done. I'm not sure how though but I think of a corded drill or a standard ceiling fan both of which can be reversed with the touch of a switch. At the moment, the motor is low voltage controlled with a hand/off/auto. Let me know if you need any more specs on the motor or control wiring to make this happen. The farmer is pretty anal about getting this done and so cost isn't really an issue. Thanks.


 


Assuming the mototr is reversible (some are not) You will need a barrel (drum) switch. I just put one on a lathe for a small machine shop. Single phase 10 hp


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## Empowered

mcclary's electrical said:


> Assuming the mototr is reversible (some are not) You will need a barrel (drum) switch. I just put one on a lathe for a small machine shop. Single phase 10 hp


How can a person tell wether or not the motor is reversable?


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## Toronto Sparky

Empowered said:


> How can a person tell wether or not the motor is reversable?



Depends on how many leads they brought out.
If there are four leads visible in the connection box then it's reversible (assuming it's not a dual voltage motor). 

Normally the name plate will tell you how to reverse it if it's reversible. 
Take the connection plate off (sometimes it's written on the back).


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## teslacontracting

typically there are specs on the name plate stating whether or not the motor is reversible and which leads to swap which typically for 120/208 are black/red. I just did one with a manual speed control switch because the one that went up was proprietary with a logic board. I bought a used motor that was reversed so i had to change it back.....damn HVAC proprietary junk!


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## subelect

What Hp is the motor? 
On smaller motors, I have used a 20 amp 4-way toggle switch inside a Weatherproof cover to reverse the start winding leads.
For larger motors, you may have to either use a drum switch (already mentioned) or use a reversing contactor inside an enclosure connected to the existing equipment.
Make sure the customer does not run it in reverse too long; those old bearings don't react very well to reversing. I have used a 3 position toggle switch, ON-OFF-MOMENTARY ON to prevent running in reverse inadvertently. 
Hope this helps,
Rick


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## Mr.C

If you want you could replace the motor with 3phase motor and throw a vfd on the singlephase source to make your three phase supply for the motor.


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## McClary’s Electrical

Mr.C said:


> If you want you could replace the motor with 3phase motor and throw a vfd on the singlephase source to make your three phase supply for the motor.


 


He said a farmer:blinkon't know many of them that spend thousand on a grain auger:no:


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## Introyble

mcclary's electrical said:


> He said a farmer:blinkon't know many of them that spend thousand on a grain auger:no:


Reverse the leads 5 and 8 in the start winding


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## frenchelectrican

A revering drum switch will work just fine in this useage but you will have to find one with contsanst on - off - monteary on 

or a hevey duty DPDT switch with consatnt on and second part with mometary on { it depending on how big the motour itself will be }

And majorty of single phase motor on North Americia side # 5 et #8 is the starting coil and once you reverse it the motor will run the reverse rotation.

Merci.
Marc


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## gold

Dont most of those Augers, like other farm equipment, use a 120volt single phase motor? To keep things simple. Like a stock dayton. At least thats what every electric motor is on the farms around here.


If it is what I think it is you just replace the motor with this from grainger and plug it in.

2Z846 (3/4 horse)

No wiring required. Plug 3-conductor cord on control into
standard AC receptacle. Built-in features include minimum and
maximum adjustable speed, current/torque limit, and fixed IR
compensation. Control has Forward On/Off/Reverse On switch,
and Power-On indicator light. TEFC enclosure, 56C NEMA frame.
115 Input volts AC @60/50 Hz. C-face mount with removable
rigid base. 50 to 1 control speed range. Service factor 1.0. Ins.
class F. CW/CCW rotation.​​​​No. 4Z248: 9.1 max. output torque at
all speeds. No. 1F800: 16.2 max. output torque at all speeds.​
No. 2Z846: 18.9 max. output torque at all speeds.

http://www.grainger.com/images/dayton_ff.pdf

look on page 8


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## Empowered

Introyble said:


> Reverse the leads 5 and 8 in the start winding


Ya after futher looking at the motor i see that this can be done, however they would like a switch for reverse/forward. Now what I'm thinking, in order to simplify the task i may be able to find a 2pole 2 throw switch on to put on there with the leads reversed on each throw. same thing as a tansfer switch but i only want it the size of an AC disconect and manual control!! its a 7.5 hp 35 FLA with 1.15 service factor. Do such switches exist?


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## Empowered

gold said:


> Dont most of those Augers, like other farm equipment, use a 120volt single phase motor? To keep things simple. Like a stock dayton. At least thats what every electric motor is on the farms around here.
> 
> 
> If it is what I think it is you just replace the motor with this from grainger and plug it in.
> 
> 2Z846 (3/4 horse)
> 
> No wiring required. Plug 3-conductor cord on control into
> standard AC receptacle. Built-in features include minimum and
> maximum adjustable speed, current/torque limit, and fixed IR
> compensation. Control has Forward On/Off/Reverse On switch,
> and Power-On indicator light. TEFC enclosure, 56C NEMA frame.
> 115 Input volts AC @60/50 Hz. C-face mount with removable
> rigid base. 50 to 1 control speed range. Service factor 1.0. Ins.
> class F. CW/CCW rotation.​No. 4Z248: 9.1 max. output torque at
> all speeds. No. 1F800: 16.2 max. output torque at all speeds.​
> No. 2Z846: 18.9 max. output torque at all speeds.
> 
> http://www.grainger.com/images/dayton_ff.pdf
> 
> look on page 8


 no not here its mainly 240v because its not a remote area 3 phase isnt feasible


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## Empowered

frenchelectrican said:


> A revering drum switch will work just fine in this useage but you will have to find one with contsanst on - off - monteary on
> 
> or a hevey duty DPDT switch with consatnt on and second part with mometary on { it depending on how big the motour itself will be }
> 
> And majorty of single phase motor on North Americia side # 5 et #8 is the starting coil and once you reverse it the motor will run the reverse rotation.
> 
> Merci.
> Marc


Ya thats what i was thinking in my head was a heavy duty DPDT but my wholesaler thinks he can only get a 60 amp transfer switch which would be waaaay to big, I've never worked with a Drum switch, how do they work and are they rated for a 7.5 hp 35 FLA 1.15 SF?


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## Introyble

Empowered said:


> Ya after futher looking at the motor i see that this can be done, however they would like a switch for reverse/forward. Now what I'm thinking, in order to simplify the task i may be able to find a 2pole 2 throw switch on to put on there with the leads reversed on each throw. same thing as a tansfer switch but i only want it the size of an AC disconect and manual control!! its a 7.5 hp 35 FLA with 1.15 service factor. Do such switches exist?


Most often what we do in this situation is wire a reversing motor starter. Wire 2 starters side by side, one for forward and the other for reverse. Of course the starters are pulled in by a 3 way switch. Switch left ~ pulls in coil for forward direction, switch middle ~ off and switch right for reverse polarity.

The diagram below is of course 3 phase with overloads. Ignore the 3 phase and add the overloads if you like. For overloads ~ we usually run the neutral from a2 on the coil (motor starter) through a normally open set of aux contacts on the motor starter.


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## Toronto Sparky

Nice GIF .. I like it..


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## frenchelectrican

Empowered said:


> Ya thats what i was thinking in my head was a heavy duty DPDT but my wholesaler thinks he can only get a 60 amp transfer switch which would be waaaay to big, I've never worked with a Drum switch, how do they work and are they rated for a 7.5 hp 35 FLA 1.15 SF?


 
Voila!

Try this one I know they do make pretty big ase sized drum switch 


http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ADVANCE-CONTROLS-Drum-Reversing-Switch-6C016?Pid=search

Hit that link that will help you something you are looking for.

Merci.
Marc


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## lemau

what type of single phase motor?? from my experience..just twist the cable for starting and running winding..or twist the supply cable for capacitor..it will reverse the rotation.


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## kwired

I live in middle of corn country, my experience with plugged augers is reversing them does little to solve the problem. Reversing a plugged auger is usually not possible - it is plugged either way you try to run it, there is not enough torque to overcome this. If you do get lucky enough to move material back and forth enough to unplug it you have added extra heat to motor windings from jogging it back and forth under nearly locked rotor conditions and will shorten the life of winding insulation.

If auger is plugging frequently you have other problems that need solved such as bad bearing, high moisture grain, undersized motor, auger speed too fast, supply gate open too far, discharge area too small for volume received, auger tube coated with rust, mold, or other foreign material, moving material that the auger was not designed/sized for.


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## Bob Badger

kwired said:


> I live in middle of corn country, my experience with plugged augers is reversing them does little to solve the problem. Reversing a plugged auger is usually not possible - it is plugged either way you try to run it, there is not enough torque to overcome this. If you do get lucky enough to move material back and forth enough to unplug it you have added extra heat to motor windings from jogging it back and forth under nearly locked rotor conditions and will shorten the life of winding insulation.
> 
> If auger is plugging frequently you have other problems that need solved such as bad bearing, high moisture grain, undersized motor, auger speed too fast, supply gate open too far, discharge area too small for volume received, auger tube coated with rust, mold, or other foreign material, moving material that the auger was not designed/sized for.


Sounds like great information, if I was the OP I would listen to it. Or buy a few extra motors to keep on hand.


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## maddog1949

I need to do this on one of my motors. Great information.


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## Handasee

This is an old topic.
It was covered again in 2011
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f28/reversing-switch-ac-motor-24007/


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