# When to replace panel ?



## forgotflying (Mar 2, 2011)

I also try and push for a replace if it's a stab lock panel.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*STab*

YEah. I did mean residential for this one. Stab lok of course replace yesterday!


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## dieselram752 (Jan 23, 2008)

I see more rusty panels in the last few years.
If its rusty and corroded I always recommend a service change.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

First off.. I have been using Murray panels for years and I don't think they are junk..

I would say any panels older than (25) years should be changed.. nothing you have or own that is considered "equipment" will last that long..

Equipment meaning mechanical or electrical in nature..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> First off.. I have been using Murray panels for years and I don't think they are junk..


I don't think Murray panels are junk.

The _breakers..._well that's another story.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I don't think Murray panels are junk.
> 
> The _breakers..._well that's another story.


They are held onto the buss bar by compression.. same as any other brand panel that doesn't use a mechanical fastener to make the electrical connection..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> They are held onto the buss bar by compression.. same as any other brand panel that doesn't use a mechanical fastener to make the electrical connection..


Thanks, I didn't know that. :laughing:

I've always found Murray/Siemens to have a sloppy fit on the busbars. Much worse than Homeline or even GE.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Compression*

What actually causes the panel to get or go bad? the compression of buss going bad? Breakers (can just replace), rust ? 


Do old fuse panels go bad? carbon buildup? buss?

Just askin


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Thanks, I didn't know that. :laughing:
> 
> I've always found Murray/Siemens to have a sloppy fit on the busbars. Much worse than Homeline or even GE.


Not everyone reading this thread knows that since this forum is read all over the world..

What might seem like a boring post to you.. might be interesting to someone without your vast electrical knowledge and experience.. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Not everyone reading this thread knows that since this forum is read all over the world..
> 
> What might seem like a boring post to you.. might be interesting to someone without your vast electrical knowledge and experience.. :laughing:


OK, so some Brits and Aussies might not know...for the vast majority of people reading this thread, they know the mechanics of a plug on breaker.


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

Cletis said:


> What actually causes the panel to get or go bad? the compression of buss going bad? Breakers (can just replace), rust ?
> 
> 
> Do old fuse panels go bad? carbon buildup? buss?
> ...


I always recomend replacement if it's a fuse panel in good condition or not. People have a bad habit of putting in a larger fuse when the fuse blows. The circiut may have started out with 15 amp over current protection but always ends up with 30 amp ocp.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I have been known to leave a fuse panel in service if it is in good condition, or even re-use it if they customer budget doesn't allow for a complete upgrade. 

Personally, I don't think replacing a fuse panel just because it is a fuse panel makes alot of sense. I just stick S type adapters in and fuse it properly.

Old obsolete breaker panels that no modern breaker will fit in I recommend upgrading. Any panel that shows signs of damage should be replaced. Often, leaving a panel in place and just cleaning up the rat's nest of wires in it and new breakers is a cost effective solution for some customers.

Old doesn't automatically = bad.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> OK, so some Brits and Aussies might not know...for the vast majority of people reading this thread, they know the mechanics of a plug on breaker.


Who says that only electricians would be reading this forum since it is open to anyone with Internet access.. :blink::blink:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Fuses are better circuit protection than circuit breakers anyway. :thumbsup:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Old*

that's what I was getting at. Is old necessarily bad. HVAC stuff has 10-20 yr lifespans then things go bad or obsolete. I think it's different with our stuff.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Who says that only electricians would be reading this forum since it is open to anyone with Internet access.. :blink::blink:


So that means we have to dumb down all our postings so non-electricians can understand what we are talking about? 

What is your point? :confused1:


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

Peter D said:


> Fuses are better circuit protection than circuit breakers anyway. :thumbsup:


Yep. But not if they're not sized properly.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

crazy electrician said:


> Yep. But not if they're not sized properly.


Yeah, but like the saying goes, you can't fix stupid. Some hack can put a 30 A breaker on #14 same as a 30 A fuse. I don't generally install electrical stuff worrying about what someone else might do in the future.

But S type fuse adapters make sure it won't happen.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> So that means we have to dumb down all our postings so non-electricians can understand what we are talking about?
> 
> What is your point? :confused1:


Not dumb down.. just explain it better *if* you choose too.. :thumbsup:


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> I have been known to leave a fuse panel in service if it is in good condition, or even re-use it if they customer budget doesn't allow for a complete upgrade.
> 
> Personally, I don't think replacing a fuse panel just because it is a fuse panel makes alot of sense. I just stick S type adapters in and fuse it properly.
> 
> ...


Never said old= bad. But if a breaker trips the home owner just resets it. When a fuse blows they replace it, with what ever size they have available. If the fuse blows often enough they put in a higher rated fuse because they are tired of replacing them.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Not dumb down.. just explain it better *if* you choose too.. :thumbsup:


If you feel the need, then knock your socks off. But DIYer's and non-electricians get booted off this site on a regular basis, so I don't see any particular need to explain what we are talking about.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> If you feel the need, then knock your socks off. But DIYer's and non-electricians get booted off this site on a regular basis, so I don't see any particular need to explain what we are talking about.


They get booted when they join and post a question..do as you wish.. :thumbsup:


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

crazy electrician said:


> Never said old= bad. But if a breaker trips the home owner just resets it. When a fuse blows they replace it, with what ever size they have available. If the fuse blows often enough they put in a higher rated fuse because they are tired of replacing them.


Doesn't really matter anyway. I dont know how it is were you live but in the situation that Cletis is talking about the banks around here send in a home inspector. They will not lend the money on the property unless the fuse panel is replaced. Regardless if an electrician says it's safe or not.


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## kennydmeek (Sep 12, 2009)

crazy electrician said:


> Doesn't really matter anyway. I dont know how it is were you live but in the situation that Cletis is talking about the banks around here send in a home inspector. They will not lend the money on the property unless the fuse panel is replaced. Regardless if an electrician says it's safe or not.


With FHA loans back in a big way we're seeing a lot of that now...but these appraisers will defer to our opinions sometimes too. Conventional loans don't tend to have such a rigorous inspection process.


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## crazy electrician (Apr 30, 2011)

B4T said:


> First off.. I have been using Murray panels for years and I don't think they are junk..
> 
> I would say any panels older than (25) years should be changed.. nothing you have or own that is considered "equipment" will last that long..
> 
> Equipment meaning mechanical or electrical in nature..


I didn't know that they made Murray panels anymore. They dont sale them around here.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I don't think Murray panels are junk.
> 
> The _breakers..._well that's another story.


The door mechanism is crappy too. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Cletis said:


> What actually causes the panel to get or go bad? the compression of buss going bad? Breakers (can just replace), rust ?
> 
> 
> Do old fuse panels go bad? carbon buildup? buss?
> ...


Mostly corrosion if you ask me. Obviously if there's rust inside or on an electrical panel, well gee wiz it's time for a new one. But it's also a good thing to figure out how the rust got there and fix that too.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Old Murray prior to the bolt on main breakers are junk. Otherwise it is a low grade item, which for low grade customers I am happy to install.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

B4T said:


> Who says that only electricians would be reading this forum since it is open to anyone with Internet access.. :blink::blink:


 *B*arney *4t* he never said "only" he said "vast majority " don't let the big words confuse you.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Mr Rewire said:


> *B*arney *4t* he never said "only" he said "vast majority " don't let the big words confuse you.


Reboot.. this thread has had (280) hits.. how do you know who has been reading it..


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