# Late 20's Fuse boxes (Cartridge & Edison)



## JohnJ0906

Cool pics! :thumbsup:


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## MDShunk

That's a perfect pictorial example of why modern day hinged cover junction boxes are still called "cutout boxes".


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## electricalperson

i see those things all the time


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## perry1

archani; that copper may have been for the neutral were they back feeding the panels? perry


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## electricalperson

im going to start a vintage electrical product collection. i found a 100+ year old glazed porcelin tube i pulled out of a 1900 house

i also found a crowsfoot receptacle. 250volt rated 10 amp. had horizontal slots for 240volt receptacles and verticle slots for 120. problem with those is if it was wired for 240 the 120 volt side would be 240. you could plug in a lamp or radio into a 240 volt receptacle and blow it up in no time


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## Archania

Yea, the 1/2 inch copper pipe was on the neutral. It was a run for a cottage in the rear of the property that was abandoned years ago. Still strange I thought, since every other neutral was fused.


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## RePhase277

electricalperson said:


> im going to start a vintage electrical product collection. i found a 100+ year old glazed porcelin tube i pulled out of a 1900 house
> 
> i also found a crowsfoot receptacle. 250volt rated 10 amp. had horizontal slots for 240volt receptacles and verticle slots for 120. problem with those is if it was wired for 240 the 120 volt side would be 240. you could plug in a lamp or radio into a 240 volt receptacle and blow it up in no time


No, those were for 120 usually. The two configurations were there to accommodate the two common types of 120 volt plugs at the time. The first widely sold plug was made by Bryant and it had horizontal blades, similar to the NEMA 6-20 we use today. At the same time, parallel blade plugs were becoming popular, like the NEMA 5-15. So, some companies began producing receptacles that could accept both.

Search Google Patents, you will find a plethora of info about old electrical stuff.


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## electricalperson

InPhase277 said:


> No, those were for 120 usually. The two configurations were there to accommodate the two common types of 120 volt plugs at the time. The first widely sold plug was made by Bryant and it had horizontal blades, similar to the NEMA 6-20 we use today. At the same time, parallel blade plugs were becoming popular, like the NEMA 5-15. So, some companies began producing receptacles that could accept both.
> 
> Search Google Patents, you will find a plethora of info about old electrical stuff.


 the receptacle was rated for 250v 10 amps


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## RePhase277

electricalperson said:


> the receptacle was rated for 250v 10 amps


Right, because there were no standards on plug types for different voltages. So they were rated at the maximum voltage that was likely to be used. Almost always though, they were on 120 V. I have 3 of the receptacles myself, two singles and a duplex. Very neat stuff. Check the patent info on it, you will see what I mean.


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## electricalperson

well what were there technical or trade names?


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## RePhase277

electricalperson said:


> well what were there technical or trade names?


Don't know. But here is the patent link:http://www.google.com/patents?id=bjllAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq


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## Idaho Abe

*Amp Rating*

What is the amp rating for 1/2 copper water pipe????:no:


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## Archania

On another note... I was going through the kitchen of the house where these were. Found a box of about 20 15A Edison fuses!! The ones they probably didn't want to use since they blew too often!:no:


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## TOOL_5150

so wheres the after pics man....??



~Matt


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## Archania

Getting there... I was going to use the original feeders, but it turned out the neutral was way undersized- #8 solid. The hots were #4. Was a 75 amp service, but that was the 20's... Wasn't going to fly with the inspector these days.
I just put up the new service drop (2 story house). Luckily it was easy to just run it out to the side of the house and up, with a main disconnect and meter socket. (200 amps)
But yea, I will post some after pics in the next few days...

And there are some other goofball things I am going to take pictures of to post here.


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## TOOL_5150

I noticed you are in CA. May I ask what city? This looks like some homes I have seen in berkeley or oakland area.

~Matt


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## Archania

Its actually a house in Palo Alto. (and I live in Palo Alto as well)


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## TOOL_5150

Archania said:


> Its actually a house in Palo Alto. (and I live in Palo Alto as well)


Ahh I was working there earlier this week. :thumbsup:

~Matt


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## MDShunk

Shoulda figured it was a California install from the earthquake strap on the water heater. They're never used around here. Plumbers probably wouldn't know where to buy them, even if a fella wanted one.


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## Archania

Well finally, here are the pics of the replacement. I have been working at another job while the floors were being done (and also waiting for money).


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## TOOL_5150

Cool man, looks good. I know someone is going to say it - so ill take care of it: Where are the straps/staples on your branch circuits?

~Matt


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## LGLS

MDShunk said:


> Shoulda figured it was a California install from the earthquake strap on the water heater. They're never used around here. Plumbers probably wouldn't know where to buy them, even if a fella wanted one.


Looks like a 28" Kindorf strap. :laughing:


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## Archania

Ha, yea that got cut off right at the top of the pic. They are all stapled right above the gutter on a joist. The flex I do have to strap a few still.


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## LGLS

Archania said:


> Ha, yea that got cut off right at the top of the pic. They are all stapled right above the gutter on a joist. The flex I do have to strap a few still.


Relax... your install is 1000% better than what existed. Stapled, strapped or not that NM isn't going anywhere... 

But I have to ask, was the trough really necessary? I would have opted for a couple of well-placed 1900 boxes if the existing NMs weren't long enough, but, that's just M(not so)HO.


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## Archania

I thought of some 1900's, but there would have to be a lot of them. So, I went for just one gutter to consolidate. You can see how short all the wires were by looking at where the wirenuts are in the gutter. I didn't cut anything off the existing wires. (except an inch here or there to get a better part of the wire) Also, since the panel was lower than the other one(s) by about a foot, everything existing would have to be spliced.


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## grich

I like the old telco protector to the left of the gutter...I don't suppose that's still in use?


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## Archania

Ha, I thought thats what it might be, but wasn't sure. I don't think it is, as someone rewired the phone lines about 10 years ago... That's what was kind of cool about this house, it was basically untouched and unmolested. Another thing I pulled off the old panel was a transformer. 120VAC to 24VAC. Have no idea what that was for...


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## mattsilkwood

Archania said:


> Ha, I thought thats what it might be, but wasn't sure. I don't think it is, as someone rewired the phone lines about 10 years ago... That's what was kind of cool about this house, it was basically untouched and unmolested. Another thing I pulled off the old panel was a transformer. 120VAC to 24VAC. Have no idea what that was for...


 doorbell?


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## grich

Could be old HVAC, too. My mom and dad's old furnace had an external 24VAC transformer about 6 feet away.


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## MDShunk

grich said:


> Could be old HVAC, too. My mom and dad's old furnace had an external 24VAC transformer about 6 feet away.


That's my vote too. When old furnaces had thermostats that were levers with chain the went down to the furnace, they didn't need power. When controls started to be added, along with electric thermostats, the transformer was always remotely mounted. When you're troubleshooting a non-working chime in an older home, you stand a 50/50 chance of running across the abandoned furnace transformer first.


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## grich

The panel swap looks good, by the way!

I just noticed this...look at the water heater. Do I see the telco ground clamp on the gas line?


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## Archania

Yea I re-used the 10Vdc transformer for the doorbell, so I knew it wasn't for that. The A/C could be possible... Who knows. It wasn't even hooked up to anything so I have no idea what it was really for. I wish I could use it for something since it still works, but who knows what. 
I don't think it was for the heater, as there is only one and its a "gravity" one in the basement going up into the living room/dining room. Maybe it had something to do with almost all the rooms being wired with a 220 outlet by a window? (for A/C I would think, what the heck else would they be for)
Oh well, just cool to find old stuff like that. (that still works!)
And the ground wire going to that gas line is for the cable, lol


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## Larry Fine

Archania said:


> Yea, the 1/2 inch copper pipe was on the neutral. It was a run for a cottage in the rear of the property that was abandoned years ago. Still strange I thought, since every other neutral was fused.


In the olden days, the neutral was often fused, too. The "original" service was typically a 30a 120v supply, both conductors fused, and two 15a circuits tapped from that, one run the length of the ceiling of each floor.

I like the sub-panel, not very different from what we might do today as part of an upgrade or multiple circuit addition. Are the original cables in both boxes the same vintage, or could we be looking at an up-graded service?


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## Larry Fine

MDShunk said:


> Shoulda figured it was a California install from the earthquake strap on the water heater.





LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Looks like a 28" Kindorf strap. :laughing:


A 28" Mineralac works in a pinch. You know, like when that's all you have on the truck.


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## Larry Fine

Archania said:


> Well finally, here are the pics of the replacement.


I think it looks great! :thumbup: The trough was a good choice, considering the quantity of cables and conduits.


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## Larry Fine

Archania said:


> Yea I re-used the 10Vdc transformer for the doorbell, so I knew it wasn't for that.


Hmm. A DC transformer, eh? :blink:


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## drsparky

Larry Fine said:


> Hmm. A DC transformer, eh? :blink:


Sure just convert your dc to ac with a inverter then into a transformer then through rectifier and finally a voltage regulator. All this to run a ac powered door bell.:jester:


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## pudge565

pic not working.


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## Archania

It began as just a "sub panel" upgrade, but the the owner wanted to bump it up to 200 amps. It was originally a 75 amp service, but I also wasn't going to get away with the original #6 neutral feeder in there. So then I just ran the feeders out to the side of the house to a main breaker/ meter socket, and up the outside wall to the service drop.
I believe the old panels were all the same vintage (from when the house was built). The house is totally untouched and unmolested. The bigger box on the left was all 240v circuits- one outlet in almost every room that I "re-phased" to make them 120v outlets. The one on the right was all the knob & tube lighting and outlet circuits.

Yea, I dont know why I said 10Vdc :blink:


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## zappy

*Just wondering...*

Did you try to sell them on changing that old K&T?


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## bobelectric

Your hands are probably still black from wire that old.


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