# I still have it. :)



## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Unlike a lot of you guys, I had zero training in the electrical field other than OJT and reading. I was always pretty good at conceptualizing the operations of equipment (I think taking Fortran IV in college my 1st year helped a lot). 

Anyway, I was called by another EC that's trying to get in good with an old customer of mine. One of their drill press machines quit working and he could not find the problem. We did this about a month ago on the same machine (he called me because he couldn't find the problem, I did). Turns out someone had changed hydraulic piston that did not have an upper limit switch that the old one did. Tech said you really didn't need it. So, ... we just wired it out of the system. 

So yesterday I show up and find the new problem in 5 minutes. No control drawings at all, it was just follow the wiring through all the controls taking voltage readings. Turns out it was the stop switch was intermittently working/not working. 

Yea, I'm bragging because I don't get to do this much these days and it's nice to know my brain still works (since I smoke weed everyday day, almost all day). 

This was the kind of stuff I excelled at.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I know the feeling and it does feel good. Years ago my guys, one licensed at the time spent 3 hours looking for a problem in a new house that they wired. I solved it in less than 3 minutes... It's a good feeling..I wasn't as old but it still felt good.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

That's great, but I bet the best part will be reminding them about this at every possible opportunity for the next 100 years or so.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

splatz said:


> That's great, but I bet the best part will be reminding them about this at every possible opportunity for the next 100 years or so.


Ha Ha, but really, the best part was finding it, the 2nd best part is telling my ET family that although I'm out to pasture, I'm not washed up (in the brain).


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

oldsparky52 said:


> Ha Ha, but really, the best part was finding it, the 2nd best part is telling my ET family that although I'm out to pasture, I'm not washed up (in the brain).


I always got the most enjoyment from troubleshooting.
It's good to keep the brain thinking, especially after retirement ... one of the reasons I like it here.

Congrats on the job !


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

oldsparky52 said:


> Ha Ha, but really, the best part was finding it, the 2nd best part is telling my ET family that although I'm out to pasture, I'm not washed up (in the brain).



You know what was the best part for me? A few years ago I went to a trim out by myself and install 50 duplex receptacles (no plates)- half with #12 wire and most of them have 2 sets of wires (feed in and out).

It took me 1 hour and 50 minutes--- I know my guys could not install them that quickly--


Unfortunately, my body gave out after that and I had to leave--hahaha. My legs actually were hurting.. Remember now, I have cancer and had 3 compression fractures in my back and I was 67 years old at the time...


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

splatz said:


> That's great, but I bet the best part will be reminding them about this at every possible opportunity for the next 100 years or so.


I put in a sub panel in my SIL's garage about a year ago.

Everytime I'm in there with him, first thing I say is "WoW !!!! Nice panel you got there !! " 😂


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

It's very satisfying to solve problems, when another, more experienced, contractor cant


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I have no formal training either, I think a lot of us are natural born troubleshooters. 

Some people are good at it, others are not. Each of us has natural talent, very few of us are able to use it on our jobs.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I also never had an electrical course in my life. I don't know theory very well and still have to check ohms law formulas


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## ElectricMatt (Dec 29, 2016)

micromind said:


> I have no formal training either, I think a lot of us are natural born troubleshooters.
> 
> Some people are good at it, others are not. Each of us has natural talent, very few of us are able to use it on our jobs.


I am a firm believer you can teach someone basic troubleshooting, but a great troubleshooter is born with it. 

From my experience, my ability to look at a system and see HOW it works helps immensely with troubleshooting. As was stated earlier, knowing how it works is essential to trouble shooting. If you can’t look at a machine, device, or system and figure out the order of operations you will be up a creek. 

I can’t tell you how many times I have gone behind others that couldn’t figure it out and once I learned the order of operations was able to pin point in quickly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

ElectricMatt said:


> I am a firm believer you can teach someone basic troubleshooting, but a great troubleshooter is born with it.
> 
> From my experience, my ability to look at a system and see HOW it works helps immensely with troubleshooting. As was stated earlier, knowing how it works is essential to trouble shooting. If you can’t look at a machine, device, or system and figure out the order of operations you will be up a creek.
> 
> ...


I'd say you nailed that !
Very well said


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Troubleshooting can be taught. It’s an easy process.

1. Gather data. Ask questions. Try to get information from direct observers, not second hand stuff. Trust no one, not even yourself. Some data might be wrong.
2. Understand how it works. Come up with an explanation. Then come up with a test that disproves your idea. Out of the explanations look for the simplest explanation that fully explains what is happening because that is most likely the right answer aka Occams Razor. Second if you have a bunch of equally likely cases try to do divide and conquer. Say you have 10 Christmas tree strings that are tripping a breaker. If you disconnect the end one it might take 10 tries to troubleshoot. If you disconnect in the middle each time it only takes 3-4 tries.
3. Repeat until you find the problem.

Traps:
1. Make sure it’s a root cause. If a breaker trips chances are it’s not the breaker. This is the trap that parts changers get into. Granted sometimes it’s faster to change out the whole thing than to figure it out.
2. Don’t get fixated on a cause. Keep repeating step 2, starting over each time.
3. It’s an error prone process. Don’t assume anything is accurate.

There are actually maintenance training classes on doing this and I got even better after taking one or two.


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## ElectricMatt (Dec 29, 2016)

paulengr said:


> Troubleshooting can be taught. It’s an easy process.
> 
> 1. Gather data. Ask questions. Try to get information from direct observers, not second hand stuff. Trust no one, not even yourself. Some data might be wrong.
> 2. Understand how it works. Come up with an explanation. Then come up with a test that disproves your idea. Out of the explanations look for the simplest explanation that fully explains what is happening because that is most likely the right answer aka Occams Razor. Second if you have a bunch of equally likely cases try to do divide and conquer. Say you have 10 Christmas tree strings that are tripping a breaker. If you disconnect the end one it might take 10 tries to troubleshoot. If you disconnect in the middle each time it only takes 3-4 tries.
> ...


I agree that it can be taught. I have taught many people using almost the exact same scenario you used with Christmas tree lights. 

Also, listen to the guy who has been running the machine for 20 years. Most of my troubleshooting is conversation based. I talk to the most knowledgeable person in the equipment I am working on. They may not know why, but typically can get you down to where the breakdown in the process is begging. 

However, I do feel that a great troubleshooter is well versed both mechanically and electrically. There is an element of natural ability mixed with a whole lot of stubbornness. How many times I have been ready to call someone else in, then I went and took a breather came back and found it. 

So I do feel there is a certain amount of natural ability both intuition and personality 


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## ElectricMatt (Dec 29, 2016)

oldsparky52 said:


> .



Non of my conversation was meant to take away from your great day! It always feels good when you can go do something you have not done in a while and do it well! 

Just because you’ve lived longer and forgotten more than we have learned doesn’t mean your not good anymore. 

The more experienced men I have working for me all have their specialties and I rely on each of them for their experience, not their back!


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

I still got it too!
First time in several years I had to pick up a conduit bender.
Bent a four point saddle that fit the first time. 
Just a tiny little dog leg.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

ElectricMatt said:


> The more experienced men I have working for me all have their specialties and I rely on each of them for their experience, not their back!


You hiring? .... joking


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

wiz1997 said:


> I still got it too!
> First time in several years I had to pick up a conduit bender.
> Bent a four point saddle that fit the first time.
> *Just a tiny little dog leg.*


Tiny huh?


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

LGLS said:


> Tiny huh?
> 
> View attachment 156384


Some call that art.


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

As an electrician in an industrial setting, troubleshooting has always been my bread and butter. As noted above, it's a skill that can be taught. It really boils down to this: compare what ya got to what you're supposed to have. It can be difficult without drawings, manuals or, most importantly, experience, but not impossible. And sometimes - only sometimes - it's glaringly obvious. I don't know how many times I've written on a work order: "Re-established the primary control circuit". That's expensive tech talk for "pressed the start button".


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

ValeoBill said:


> "Re-established the primary control circuit".


Then there is the ID 10 T error (idiot)


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

My brain is a popcorn popper. Sometimes it helps to draw things out so my mind slows down to the speed of a pencil. It helps to find a safe corner to talk to myself. People must think I’m crazy. They’re right.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

paulengr said:


> Troubleshooting can be taught. It’s an easy process.
> 
> 1. Gather data. Ask questions. Try to get information from direct observers, not second hand stuff. Trust no one, not even yourself. Some data might be wrong.
> 2. Understand how it works. Come up with an explanation. Then come up with a test that disproves your idea. Out of the explanations look for the simplest explanation that fully explains what is happening because that is most likely the right answer aka Occams Razor. Second if you have a bunch of equally likely cases try to do divide and conquer. Say you have 10 Christmas tree strings that are tripping a breaker. If you disconnect the end one it might take 10 tries to troubleshoot. If you disconnect in the middle each time it only takes 3-4 tries.
> ...


This is true,

I also teach my personal the following points. With analogy that they can relate to.

A few for examples:

Can you see the wind, if you can! Do the same for you problem.

Some areas cannot be seen or touched. But if you understand it and can visualize the steady state with it working. Visualize the faults and strong/ week points.

Made by a man, it can be figured out by another man.

Do not fear it, respect it for what it is. Take your time, speed comes with time.

The results of you test might not agree with your assumptions. Don’t fight it record it and keep going till you reach a block. Then step back and walk way and look at you data. And converse for a different view point if you have to.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

CAUSA said:


> Made by a man, it can be figured out by another man.


I said the same thing " if it was made I can fix it"
I also said " If I can't fix it, I can remake it"
" If I can't fix it, it ain't broke, if it ain't broke I can't fix it"


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