# Circuits/Conduit How?



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

How would you run the following conductors/conduit? Big 150'x150'x25' Cube room. Nothing spec'd about how to run it in blueprints. Run low, high, wall, ceiling. All he said is it has to all be in conduit. Cram it all in 1 conduit and do drops? Separate conduits for 120, 208, etc...Lighting and Receptacles together ?? 


3 - 1,000 Watt 120 Volt 6 bulb T-5's Pendants

1 - 30 amp Dis. Sw. for Tire Changer 30 amp 

1 - 30 amp Dis. Sw for Pressure Washer 30 amp 

1 - 2 pole 20 amp Water Heater 30 amp 

1 - Hot Water Circulating Pump 

1 - All general Receptacles per blueprint (All over warehouse) 

1 - 10 ton Air Handler (3 phase 208)

Exhause Fans/Makeup Air (3 phase 208)

Radiant Heaters 

- Furnace Hookup 

- Garage Door controllers 

- Platform lift electrical 

- Garage Door Operators 

- Hydraulic Bus Lift Starter (3 phase 208) 

and a few other things...


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

I've never seen prints that said how to run it. :no:


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I would do one 2" emt with t's and 2"-1/2" threaded reducers.

Sent by my thumbs.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

If nobody cares about it being low then do it low.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

cooridnate and run under slab, alot faster.:thumbup:


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Why in gods name would you runn all that together? By the time you de-rated you'd have a 3" pipe. 

First thing is to find out where everything is going to be and then you can plan your conduits from there.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*things*

I never said I was going to cram it all in there. It's one big square with things spread out all over pretty symetrically....


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Sometimes I wonder about Cletis


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Cletis said:


> How would you run the following conductors/conduit? Big 150'x150'x25' Cube room. Nothing spec'd about how to run it in blueprints. Run low, high, wall, ceiling. All he said is it has to all be in conduit. Cram it all in 1 conduit and do drops? Separate conduits for 120, 208, etc...Lighting and Receptacles together ??
> 
> 
> 3 - 1,000 Watt 120 Volt 6 bulb T-5's Pendants
> ...


If you are using a lift then just run pipe on the ceiling and drop down.
That will add at least 30' to 40' to each run.
If you quoted it, go with what would be easy to run using a 6' or 8' ladder.

It seems like they might be needing wall space for something in the future. I would think about shelf space and future office area.
I would also install an empty conduit for future low voltage or communications.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I'd start with art 511 Cletis....

~CS~


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> I'd start with art 511 Cletis....
> 
> ~CS~


its hard to tell if its a major repair garage or a minor.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

mbednarik said:


> its hard to tell if its a major repair garage or a minor.


Yep, big differences in wiring. I just had this come back from plan review on a new shop


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Yep*



chicken steve said:


> I'd start with art 511 Cletis....
> 
> ~CS~


Good Catch. That's why I threw in Hydraulic *Bus Lift* Starter (3 phase 208)


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*M m*



mbednarik said:


> its hard to tell if its a major repair garage or a minor.


What's the difference between major and minor ? 

It's mostly Div 1, Class 1. No pits now. Bus repair shop for school district ...


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Ooops*

Mistake Div 1, Class 2 I meant


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## TimChaput69 (Nov 14, 2011)

If space is not built yet I would go in the slab all day long.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Electrician Talk


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

install cable tray down center of building. Run conduit from tray to equipment. Pull tray cable,terminate,you are done.


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## DERITM (Apr 8, 2009)

I thought this was for professional electricians only.


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

DERITM said:


> I thought this was for professional electricians only.


you are you calling nonprofessional ?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

DERITM said:


> I thought this was for professional electricians only.


What's wrong with cable tray?


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> What's wrong with cable tray?


 Not a thing in the world, I've used quite a bit of it. 
That being said I hate that stuff. 
Even the best looking tray will never look as good as a well built pipe rack. Some people want to buy a Cadillac some people want to buy a ford.


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

mattsilkwood said:


> Not a thing in the world, I've used quite a bit of it.
> That being said I hate that stuff.
> Even the best looking tray will never look as good as a well built pipe rack. Some people want to buy a Cadillac some people want to buy a ford.


Even the best looking pipe rack will never look as good as a well built cable tray. Some people want to buy a Ford some people want to buy a Cadillac.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Why not gutter?:blink: I think sticking to the walls as much as possible it the best route. It is a garage, how many garages do you see that have electrical drops in the middle of them?


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Wireman191 said:


> Why not gutter?:blink: I think sticking to the walls as much as possible it the best route. It is a garage, how many garages do you see that have electrical drops in the middle of them?


Gutter isn't approved. 511.7 has an all inclusive list of wiring methods for above a class 1 location, which a major repair garage floor up to 18" is classified cls 1 div2. but smurf tube is :laughing:


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## nutzack (Nov 11, 2011)

Rack it with stabloy (big mc) down the middle then drop with appropriate raceways or in the slab, fast as hell saves hours


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Slab*

Slab already poured. The ceiling is odd. It's at a 10 degree angle and the middle 1/3 juts up 7 ft then back down. I may have to take a pic. It's going to take extra pipework and such to make it all look good.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

troublemaker1701 said:


> install cable tray down center of building. Run conduit from tray to equipment. Pull tray cable,terminate,you are done.


We recently finished a large supermarket using that very method.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

troublemaker1701 said:


> Even the best looking pipe rack will never look as good as a well built cable tray. Some people want to buy a Ford some people want to buy a Cadillac.


 What in the world are you smoking down in KY?:laughing:


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> We recently finished a large supermarket using that very method.


 That's becoming more and more common in industrial work too. You can get tray in the air in a couple days where it might take a couple weeks to run pipe.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mattsilkwood said:


> That's becoming more and more common in industrial work too. You can get tray in the air in a couple days where it might take a couple weeks to run pipe.


Yeah, our guys had the hundreds of feet of tray up before the slab was even poured.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, our guys had the hundreds of feet of tray up before the slab was even poured.


 It's fast and it's cheap but I don't think I'll ever like the way it looks.


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

I worked on offices building in downtown Indy where we ran cable tray down center of building and pulled mc and branched off at the different offices


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mattsilkwood said:


> It's fast and it's cheap but I don't think I'll ever like the way it looks.


It pretty much disappeared like conduits would once they sprayed it and everything else the same color. 

I tried to take some pictures of it but with everything painted it really blends in.


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

mattsilkwood said:


> What in the world are you smoking down in KY?:laughing:


I DO NOT SMOKE


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

BBQ said:


> We recently finished a large supermarket using that very method.


Was that in the spec's, or was that your companies idea to do it that way?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

troublemaker1701 said:


> I worked on offices building in downtown Indy where we ran cable tray down center of building and pulled mc and branched off at the different offices


For MC we often have a sheet metal shop bend up 'U'-shaped troughs to run MCs in, much cheaper than real cable tray.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

BBQ said:


> It pretty much disappeared like conduits would once they sprayed it and everything else the same color.
> 
> I tried to take some pictures of it but with everything painted it really blends in.


 yeah but you know how that works, a tradesman could walk in and spot it from a mile away. I'm always getting in trouble for that.:thumbup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MarkyMark said:


> Was that in the spec's, or was that your companies idea to do it that way?


It was per very detailed prints.

Most of our supermarket jobs run about 15-20 E-drawings, this one was over 100 E-drawings.


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

I got in this one late but cable tray? What the"f" is wrong with you? You can also run wire mold as opposed to pipe, would you do that too? This is what's wrong with our industry. Wiring a garage shop and there's actually an "electrician" out there who suggested cable tray! I got an idea, let's line the entire room with gutter wire way so we only have short nipples to all equipment. That way we won't have to strap them. Better yet, let's just run exposed romex all over the place!


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

Don't be lazy and just run the pipe! It's the proper method. Build a few racks and make it look good


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Her*

I may buy one of these. I wanna bend like her 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WigOvbY31Ts


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

...........


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Cletis said:


> I may buy one of these. I wanna bend like her
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WigOvbY31Ts


kinda untraditional, but i'd like to try it out....~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

troublemaker1701 said:


> ...........


 392 ado?

~CS~


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Gaterhater said:


> I got in this one late but cable tray? What the"f" is wrong with you? You can also run wire mold as opposed to pipe, would you do that too? This is what's wrong with our industry. Wiring a garage shop and there's actually an "electrician" out there who suggested cable tray! I got an idea, let's line the entire room with gutter wire way so we only have short nipples to all equipment. That way we won't have to strap them. Better yet, let's just run exposed romex all over the place!


Yes, lets do that, make money and go home. :thumbsup:



Gaterhater said:


> Don't be lazy and just run the pipe! It's the proper method. Build a few racks and make it look good


When it is your money paying for the job go ahead and run rob roy other than that you are paid help and should be happy to run what you have been asked to.


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

I understand there are cheaper alternatives for wiring anything. Doesn't make them the correct installation. We're talking about a class 1 division 2 location here. Any real electrician knows what needs to be done.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)




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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Yes, lets do that, make money and go home. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> When it is your money paying for the job go ahead and run rob roy other than that you are paid help and should be happy to run what you have been asked to.


 I think you kinda put some words in his mouth here.:whistling2:


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Yes, lets do that, make money and go home. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> When it is your money paying for the job go ahead and run rob roy other than that you are paid help and should be happy to run what you have been asked to.


................................


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

.


Gaterhater said:


> I understand there are cheaper alternatives for wiring anything. Doesn't make them the correct installation. We're talking about a class 1 division 2 location here. Any real electrician knows what needs to be done.


Read this Mr. Real Electrician highlighted in red
II. Wiring 
501.10 Wiring Methods.
(B) Class I, Division 2 Class I, Division 2.
(1) General. In Class I, Division 2 locations, the following wiring methods shall be permitted: 
(1) All wiring methods permitted in 501.10(A). 
(2) Threaded rigid metal conduit, threaded steel intermediate metal conduit.
(3) Enclosed gasketed busways, enclosed gasketed wireways. 
(4) Type PLTC cable in accordance with the provisions of Article 725, or in cable tray systems. PLTC shall be installed in a manner to avoid tensile stress at the termination fittings.
(5) Type ITC cable as permitted in 727.4. 
(6) Type MI, MC, MV, or TC cable with termination fittings, or in cable tray systems and installed in a manner to avoid tensile stress at the termination


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

Gaterhater said:


> I understand there are cheaper alternatives for wiring anything. Doesn't make them the correct installation. We're talking about a class 1 division 2 location here. Any real electrician knows what needs to be done.


Do you know what class 1 division is?
2) _Class I, Division 2_. A Class I, Division 2 location is a location: 

(i) In which volatile flammable liquids or flammable gases are handled, processed, or used, but in which the hazardous liquids, vapors, or gases will normally be confined within closed containers or closed systems from which they can escape only in the event of accidental rupture or breakdown of such containers or systems, or as a result of abnormal operation of equipment; or 

(ii) In which ignitable concentrations of gases or vapors are normally prevented by positive mechanical ventilation, and which might become hazardous through failure or abnormal operations of the ventilating equipment; or 

(iii) That is adjacent to a Class I, Division 1 location, and to which ignitable concentrations of gases or vapors might occasionally be communicated unless such communication is prevented by adequate positive-pressure ventilation from a source of clean air, and effective safeguards against ventilation failure are provided.


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## Gaterhater (Nov 15, 2011)

Once again cause you didn't seem to comprehend what I said earlier. Just because the n. e. c. Allows a certain method( bare minimum safety requirements per National Fire Protection Agency), doesn't make it the correct installation method. If you so choose to run exposed cable tray in a garage, shop, or industrial warehouse... Go right ahead. But take note that every electrician that ever walks in after you is going to say the same thing. " Lazy m---f----ers don't know how to run pipe?" cable tray is fine for above ceiling for low voltage cables or even running tray wire on. But we're talking exposed surface mounted race ways. Don't be lazy, run the pipe!


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Gaterhater said:


> But take note that every electrician that ever walks in after you is going to say the same thing. " Lazy m---f----ers don't know how to run pipe?"


Not me. I'd walk in and say, "Overly proud m-----f---ers don't know how to run cable tray to accomodate the next guy that has to come in and pull a new circuit?"


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> It pretty much disappeared like conduits would once they sprayed it and everything else the same color....


 Was this ladder tray? Did they also stick all your TC together by covering it with paint? inch:

I personally love tray. Especially in industrial where the electrical systems change constantly. Beats the hell out of even the best pipe rack.

-John


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## troublemaker1701 (Aug 11, 2011)

erics37 said:


> Not me. I'd walk in and say, "Overly proud m-----f---ers don't know how to run cable tray to accomodate the next guy that has to come in and pull a new circuit?"


Don't forget it's lazy m----f------kers


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

This thread is worthy of multiple laugh buttons


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

Cletis said:


> I may buy one of these. I wanna bend like her
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WigOvbY31Ts


A new supply has just had an open house and I got to mess with one of those. The bender not her. There neat but my ideal benders work just fine

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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