# Arc Fault enforcement



## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Just got this email from a state electrical inspector. Time to stock tamper resistant arc fault receptacles.


This notice is to remind all Electrical Contractors that the
provisions of NEC 406.4D will be enforced starting January 2014


406.4 (D)
(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a
receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires
arc-fault circuit interrupter protection as specified
elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this
outlet shall be one of the following:
(1) A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter
receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch circuit
type arc-fault circuit interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type
arc-fault circuit interrupter type circuit breaker
This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Just got this email from a state electrical inspector. Time to stock tamper resistant arc fault receptacles.
> 
> This notice is to remind all Electrical Contractors that the
> provisions of NEC 406.4D will be enforced starting January 2014
> ...


Sucks, who has arcfault receptacles?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> Sucks, who has arcfault receptacles?


Viking might? I'll need to call my sales rep and check.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Viking might? I'll need to call my sales rep and check.


None on their web site. 

Platt.com has Leviton's listed for $40 each.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> None on their web site.
> 
> Platt.com has Leviton's listed for $40 each.


Thanks. I wonder if Dakota Supply Group or Border States have them?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Thanks. I wonder if Dakota Supply Group or Border States have them?


United Electric lists them for $25, but none in stock.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> United Electric lists them for $25, but none in stock.


Maybe JH Larson or Graybar?


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-AFTR1-W-Fault-Circuit-Interrupter/dp/B00H3YARWM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1386300766&sr=8-5&keywords=arc+fault+receptacle


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

drspec said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-AFTR1...86300766&sr=8-5&keywords=arc+fault+receptacle


Thanks but, I'm not going to spend $145 for one.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Chris1971 said:


> Maybe JH Larson or Graybar?


Graybar lists one available at $28


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Chris1971 said:


> Thanks but, I'm not going to spend $145 for one.


if you had read that, you would see that it was a 6 pack.

that's less than $25 each and free shipping if you have Amazon Prime


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> Graybar lists one available at $28


Thanks. I'll call Viking tomorrow if I remember.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

drspec said:


> if you had read that, you would see that it was a 6 pack.
> 
> that's less than $25 each and free shipping if you have Amazon Prime


Thanks. My bad.:laughing:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

last i heard only leviton makes em. maybe the mfgs should keep up with code, or vica versa:whistling2::whistling2:


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## Dan Wheeler (Nov 22, 2013)

Is this just in the US? Or will it be coming to Canada too?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Dan Wheeler said:


> Is this just in the US? Or will it be coming to Canada too?


The state of Minnesota will be enforcing these NEC rules starting Jan. 2014. Not sure what Canada rules are in regards to arc fault requirements?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

What we need is afci police!


~CS~


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

they have arc fault receptacles now, how long that been?
were those required?
:no:


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

So when you go to a service call and have to replace a bad receptacle, you will replace it with an AFCI receptacle?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

per letter of _code_ Ashock....now if a permit was pulled on _every_ serv call, it might actually occur.....~CS~


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

aftershockews said:


> So when you go to a service call and have to replace a bad receptacle, you will replace it with an AFCI receptacle?


Yes.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

arc fault receptacle won't protect downstream, like a gf I receptacle?


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

the homeowners really better break out the checkbook after the electrician comes now.
:thumbup:


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

Lep said:


> arc fault receptacle won't protect downstream, like a gf I receptacle?


The afci will protect downstream.

You could also install an afci breaker.

And if the circuit is afci protected already you're good to go


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

To clarify, under '14 NEC if you replace a receptacle in an area that is required to be AFCI protected, pretty much all living space with a couple exceptions, the replacement receptacle has to be AFCI protected. How you accomplish that is up to you.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

electricmanscott said:


> To clarify, under '14 NEC if you replace a receptacle in an area that is required to be AFCI protected, pretty much all living space with a couple exceptions, the replacement receptacle has to be AFCI protected. How you accomplish that is up to you.


Its actually a 2011 requirement as well effective Jan 1


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

drspec said:


> Its actually a 2011 requirement as well effective Jan 1


True story so this one shouldn't be a surprise. But for most guys it will be.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> To clarify, under '14 NEC if you replace a receptacle in an area that is required to be AFCI protected, pretty much all living space with a couple exceptions, the replacement receptacle has to be AFCI protected. How you accomplish that is up to you.


I foresee an increase in unpermitted work. 

I haven't seen anything on the 2014 NEC yet, the company's code update class is in February, did they jam any requirements for afci in commercial buildings in there yet? I keep hearing people say that it will inevitably happen, but this is the third (?) edition of the NEC with afci requirements and still nothing in commercial applications (I hope).


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

EBFD6 said:


> I foresee an increase in unpermitted work.
> 
> I haven't seen anything on the 2014 NEC yet, the company's code update class is in February, did they jam any requirements for afci in commercial buildings in there yet? I keep hearing people say that it will inevitably happen, but this is the third (?) edition of the NEC with afci requirements and still nothing in commercial applications (I hope).


Not quite commercial so to speak but dorms are included now.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't think I've taken a permit for changing a receptacle. Mind you I follow the code. In Canada tho so just the bedroom plugs here and they are all fed with breakers.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The two largest chain independent hardware stores here don't even stock tr receptacles yet. Home Depot and Lowes do, but overshadowed by the bins of non tr receptacle outlets. 

Afci receptacle outlets will probably not start showing up on the shelves for twenty years...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

EBFD6 said:


> > I foresee an increase in unpermitted work.
> 
> 
> ding ding ding, tell him what he's won Ed!
> ...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Afci receptacle outlets will probably not start showing up on the shelves for twenty years...


And we'll be expected to be explaining that for about that amount of time too Mac....~CS~


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## Calsparky (Aug 18, 2009)

Wow I did not see that one in the 2011 NEC. Nobody said anything at the code class I recently took. 

So I wonder if I should stock those as I do a lot of service work lately.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> Just got this email from a state electrical inspector. Time to stock tamper resistant arc fault receptacles.
> 
> 
> This notice is to remind all Electrical Contractors that the
> ...


What Beautiful State do you live in.... > ?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Lep said:


> they have arc fault receptacles now, how long that been?
> were those required?
> :no:


Since January 2014...


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

CADPoint said:


> What Beautiful State do you live in.... > ?


It's Minnesota, but if you adopted the 2011 NEC it's now the rule. Or did your state pass an amendment to side step it?


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## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

backstay said:


> It's Minnesota, but if you adopted the 2011 NEC it's now the rule. Or did your state pass an amendment to side step it?


Do any of these genius code guys really test these things to see if they even work.
Rumour has it distance from the first afci in a circ. is a major factor on performance


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Hmacanada said:


> Do any of these genius code guys really test these things to see if they even work.
> Rumour has it distance from the first afci in a circ. is a major factor on performance


 I don't think they even existed when they came up with that little code change.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

drspec said:


> The afci will protect downstream.
> 
> You could also install an afci breaker.
> 
> And if the circuit is afci protected already you're good to go


This is what I will do. $20 more and a better job. Really kinda the same with GFCI's


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Electricians and other organizations should sue the CMP. Either that Id have no problem with unpermitted work now.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I last asked a week or two ago if we went to 11 yet. Negative, still on 08.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

meadow said:


> Electricians and other organizations should sue the CMP. .


A class action suit or mass recall is needed

Unfortunately , sorts like Mr Lee of the CPSC doesn't wish to pull the tail of a bizillion $$$ industry

Guess he knows what those folks can amount to.....




~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

HD has them on the shelves for $28.99. I ordered up three in ivory and white for the housing units I work on, specifically those that have Zinsco and FPE. The ones that have brands of breakers that you can still get, those will get the AFCI breakers.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> HD has them on the shelves for $28.99. I ordered up three in ivory and white for the housing units I work on, specifically those that have Zinsco and FPE. The ones that have brands of breakers that you can still get, those will get the AFCI breakers.


If they have them on the shelf, why did you have to order them?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Give the supply house some business. If I need one short term, I can get them at HD. I want to see if the supply house can match or beat the price.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Give the supply house some business. If I need one short term, I can get them at HD. I want to see if the supply house can match or beat the price.


I picked some up at Rexel the other day for $25.00


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

electricmanscott said:


> I picked some up at Rexel the other day for $25.00


Leviton? P&S?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

What brand was Rexel carrying? They do mostly P&S around here.


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## Incubus311 (Jan 10, 2014)

This is only residential correct? Not commercial?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Incubus311 said:


> This is only residential correct? Not commercial?


Correct, we covered this in the 2011 NEC classes I took.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MTW said:


> Leviton? P&S?





nrp3 said:


> What brand was Rexel carrying? They do mostly P&S around here.


Leviton. Rexel no longer does P&S. The Northeast was the only part of the chain that had P&S, the rest was Leviton.


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## Incubus311 (Jan 10, 2014)

Is there a commercial section in the NEC? Or is residential and commercial all blended?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Incubus311 said:


> Is there a commercial section in the NEC? Or is residential and commercial all blended?


There is no such thing as residential. There are specific rules for dwellings and associated buildings.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Interesting, when did that happen? I haven't been in one in a couple of weeks. I know they dropped square d and went to CH.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Interesting, when did that happen? I haven't been in one in a couple of weeks. I know they dropped square d and went to CH.


Just a few weeks ago. The guys in the branch I go to didn't even know it was happening.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I see lots of 49 cent outlets installed and cash transactions taking place. :whistling2:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Does Indiana still omit the AFCI requirements from the NEC? I think I may move there. :laughing::thumbup:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Not that I'm thrilled, but will embrace the horror (doing my best apocalypse now voice) and roll with it.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I don't see the need to get an inspection when replacing a receptacle. I haven't before.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I don't either. Still want to do the right thing.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

One supplier told me that P&S does not make an arc fault receptacle. It appears only Leviton makes an arc fault receptacle.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Looking at their site, that appears to be true.


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## George Simon Ohm (Jan 28, 2014)

I work in Seattle, the afci was adopted in '08, I'd like to share a couple of things.

Smoke detectors are not required to be afci protected, most manufactures will state this in the manual. Though it is allowed to be on an afci circuit the warranty will void. This is also the case for gfci.

Most load center ( panel ) manufactures do not make a multi branch afci breaker, Cutler Hammer BR style is the only one I am aware of, so plan on pulling more 2 wire home runs. Square D has recently put a afci panel on the market but I've not used this yet. 

I've been able to say to the inspector that it's an existing multi branch circuit and the panel does not accept an afci breaker. With afci yokes (outlets) now becoming available I'm sure this will not be an option much longer. 

Ensure those old light fixtures are in good condition before you reinstall them.

This should go w/I saying, keep your ground conductors separate, or you could just build your resume.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Smoke detectors are required to be AFCI protected as per NEC. They are a utilization point in an area required to be protected. I don't know how you can say they aren't.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Because it was a huge chicken/egg debate, resulting in an nfpa directive for bat BU smokes (which i can't find this a.m., sorry)


~CS~


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> A class action suit or mass recall is needed
> 
> Unfortunately , sorts like Mr Lee of the CPSC doesn't wish to pull the tail of a bizillion $$$ industry
> 
> ...


Thanks for the vid! I saw the first part when you posted it a while back, will watch parts 2 and 3:thumbup:











MTW said:


> Does Indiana still omit the AFCI requirements from the NEC? I think I may move there. :laughing::thumbup:


I hope they do. Only state with common sense... and is still enjoying houses with more than 3 circuits:laughing:





nrp3 said:


> Not that I'm thrilled, but will embrace the horror (doing my best apocalypse now voice) and roll with it.


We have been conditioned to put up with the questionable:no:







backstay said:


> I don't see the need to get an inspection when replacing a receptacle. I haven't before.


 

You've been doing it right all along then:thumbsup:


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## George Simon Ohm (Jan 28, 2014)

backstay said:


> Smoke detectors are required to be AFCI protected as per NEC. They are a utilization point in an area required to be protected. I don't know how you can say they aren't.


Your right nec does require but look at the manual of the smoke detector, then ask your local authority. WA has an code Chang which supersedes the NEC. Not sure if the'14 has any changes on this


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

George Simon Ohm said:


> Your right nec does require but look at the manual of the smoke detector, then ask your local authority. WA has an code Chang which supersedes the NEC. Not sure if the'14 has any changes on this


No such change in MN.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Internal pics of an AFCI, scroll down:


http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...87794/all/Does_your_State_Fire_Marshal_A.html


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Viking doesn't carry arc fault receptacles, just changed 3 dining room receptacles that pre-January would have been under 50 bucks. Being that I need to pull new home runs through the kitchen, those 3 outlets just ran close to 400 dollars. This is the worst code change I have ever seen.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MF Dagger said:


> Viking doesn't carry arc fault receptacles, just changed 3 dining room receptacles that pre-January would have been under 50 bucks. Being that I need to pull new home runs through the kitchen, those 3 outlets just ran close to 400 dollars. This is the worst code change I have ever seen.


So less than fifty dollar job vs $400?! Thumbs up corrupt NFPA


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Yeah, 350 sounds good. Sounds great actually. Except good luck competing with the craigslist electricians and undocumented workers. The only thing this change is going to ACTUALLY accomplish is to push everyone into non-permitted work. As far as I can tell if the manufacturer or CMP gave a damn about safety we would see backstabbing outlawed.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

This should jump start AFCI breaker sales.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

We are becoming snake oil salesman for leviton and cutler-hammer.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

electricmanscott said:


> So less than fifty dollar job vs $400?! Thumbs up corrupt NFPA


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MF Dagger said:


> Yeah, 350 sounds good. Sounds great actually. Except good luck competing with the craigslist electricians and undocumented workers. The only thing this change is going to ACTUALLY accomplish is to push everyone into non-permitted work. As far as I can tell if the manufacturer or CMP gave a damn about safety we would see backstabbing outlawed.



I don't disagree but the same could be said about much of the code or just having fairly strict codes. 

I took a few hundred dollar extra, replace devices, and quadruped it two weeks ago because of afci requirements. :thumbup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MTW said:


>


Okay Cletis. :whistling2: :laughing:


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I last asked a week or two ago if we went to 11 yet. Negative, still on 08.


Good grief what island do you live on?...Oh never mind:laughing:


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

I still don't see any advantage to use AFCI receptacles..why not go straight to breakers, if you have to?


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## T Healy (Aug 27, 2011)

MF Dagger said:


> Yeah, 350 sounds good. Sounds great actually. Except good luck competing with the craigslist electricians and undocumented workers. The only thing this change is going to ACTUALLY accomplish is to push everyone into non-permitted work. As far as I can tell if the manufacturer or CMP gave a damn about safety we would see backstabbing outlawed.


 I was talking to a local inspector yesterday on this subject and came down on the side of just changing the receptacle but, not getting a permit or do the job per code may be a foothold for the insurance company to not pay a claim.


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## Pharon (Jan 20, 2014)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I still don't see any advantage to use AFCI receptacles..why not go straight to breakers, if you have to?


Avoid a panel shutdown?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

meadow said:


> Internal pics of an AFCI, scroll down:
> 
> 
> http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...87794/all/Does_your_State_Fire_Marshal_A.html





















~CS~


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Pharon said:


> Avoid a panel shutdown?


You lost me.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

afci receptacle *vs* breaker SRE.....

~CS~


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Pharon said:


> Avoid a panel shutdown?


People actually kill resi panels to swap out breakers? What kind of madness is this?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

buncha pussies!

~CS~


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

chicken steve said:


> buncha pussies!
> 
> ~CS~


:laughing:

But seriously, people do this?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> :laughing:
> 
> But seriously, people do this?


Ok i admit i do, but only when my apprentice is looking Commando

~CS~


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Pharon said:


> Avoid a panel shutdown?


If you mean an AFCI breaker compared to an AFCI receptacle I can't see why anyone would choose the receptacle.

A receptacle would cost about the same as a breaker, if you can find one: 
1) would be hard to fit in a 1G box, if it had more than 3 cables already
2) an AFCI breaker would protect the entire circuit (if you assume they actually work)
3) 2014 Code allows 5 ways to protect an AFCI circuit with all kinds of crazy rules, one of which is almost impossible to implement.


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## Pharon (Jan 20, 2014)

And yet still, installing an AFCI receptacle is a simple *circuit* shutdown -- not an entire *panel* shutdown. Which is the point I was trying to make.

Also, an AFCI receptacle does protect the entire circuit, assuming you install it on the first one. So your #1 is a wash, #2 a non-issue, and #3 too vague to give a rebuttal.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Pharon said:


> And yet still, installing an AFCI receptacle is a simple *circuit* shutdown -- not an entire *panel* shutdown. Which is the point I was trying to make.
> 
> Also, an AFCI receptacle does protect the entire circuit, assuming you install it on the first one. So your #1 is a wash, #2 a non-issue, and #3 too vague to give a rebuttal.



Actually, #1 concerns box fill which could be a big deal since Code treats all yokes the same. I suspect an AFCI receptacle will take up lots more space than a standard duplex. So, depending on how many cables came into the first box, it may not be allowed. 

#2 Protecting the feed is not important? . An AFCI receptacle may only protect from the 1st receptacle to the end, not the feed from the panel.

#3 look at 210.12 (A) in 2014 and explain how (2) thru (6) was an improvement.


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> I still don't see any advantage to use AFCI receptacles..why not go straight to breakers, if you have to?


The main intention for AFCI receptacles was directed at older homes where breakers are not an option. Other than that totally, use the breaker.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

ablyss said:


> The main intention for AFCI receptacles was directed at older homes where breakers are not an option. Other than that totally, use the breaker.


:001_huh:


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

:tt2::tt2::tt2:


papaotis said:


> :001_huh:


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

my dog licks me too!:laughing:


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

:laughing:


papaotis said:


> my dog licks me too!:laughing:


Just ran to the store for peanut butter aye?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

she does like peanut butter! are you a pirate, aye?:laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

AFCI receptacle is about $25 dollars. Roughly $15 less than a breaker. If im going to be changing a receptacle or two I'm going to use an AFCI receptacle in most cases. Having done a bunch of 2014 compliant jobs already I can report that the new requirements are a serious pain in the ass. BUT, also money makers.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

ablyss said:


> The main intention for AFCI receptacles was directed at older homes where breakers are not an option. Other than that totally, use the breaker.


The _original _intention of afci protection was to mitigate all electrical fires

If that claim actually existed in _any _viable form, we'd be installing afci _breakers_ to protect old BX & K&T circuitry , or now afci receptacles to accomplish the same. 

Yet inasmuch as we find it may be code complaint , the insurance cabal , banks , and their today HI's do not consider then a protective device

*why?*

I (et all) are going to charge an average of $1000 for a serv upgrade to include them.....

~CS~


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

electricmanscott said:


> AFCI receptacle is about $25 dollars. Roughly $15 less than a breaker. If im going to be changing a receptacle or two I'm going to use an AFCI receptacle in most cases. Having done a bunch of 2014 compliant jobs already I can report that the new requirements are a serious pain in the ass. BUT, also money makers.


I would only recommend using arc-fault breakers unless you had no other option. Nothing is more aggravating than having to make a service call to reset a GFCI outlet because the homeowner is either unable to reach it, unable to reset it, and/or unable to find it. In either case, the only right solution is to spend extra money and do it right.:whistling2:


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## sparky402 (Oct 15, 2013)

ablyss said:


> I would only recommend using arc-fault breakers unless you had no other option. Nothing is more aggravating than having to make a service call to reset a GFCI outlet because the homeowner is either unable to reach it, unable to reset it, and/or unable to find it. In either case, the only right solution is to spend extra money and do it right.:whistling2:


Yea ive had to do a service call for a gfi reset and the guy was an azz cuz i couldnt get there right away then i reset it and told him and he says you can still just bill me since you had to come out.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

sparky402 said:


> Yea ive had to do a service call for a gfi reset and the guy was an azz cuz i couldnt get there right away then i reset it and told him and he says you can still just bill me since you had to come out.


Same here Sparky402. Your HO was actually pretty understanding.

I've actually been called back because the HO couldn't plug into a TR receptacle. I didn't charge for the call because he was a WWII vet and around 80 YO.

Now I always spray my tester and insert it into all the TR's.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

ablyss said:


> I would only recommend using arc-fault breakers unless you had no other option. Nothing is more aggravating than having to make a service call to reset a GFCI outlet because the homeowner is either unable to reach it, unable to reset it, and/or unable to find it. In either case, the only right solution is to spend extra money and do it right.:whistling2:


 Why? Don't you make money on service calls?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

ablyss said:


> Nothing is more aggravating than having to make a service call to reset a GFCI outlet because the homeowner is either unable to reach it, unable to reset it, and/or unable to find it. .:whistling2:




"Heeeeealp!, I've fallen , and i can't get up to reset my GFCI" ......:laughing:











~CS~


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## ablyss (Feb 8, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> "Heeeeealp!, I've fallen , and i can't get up to reset my GFCI" ......:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dat was Nasty :laughing:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

MF Dagger said:


> Viking doesn't carry arc fault receptacles, just changed 3 dining room receptacles that pre-January would have been under 50 bucks. Being that I need to pull new home runs through the kitchen, those 3 outlets just ran close to 400 dollars. This is the worst code change I have ever seen.



From the looks of it will only get worse. There is no way anyone can explain to a HO why it takes 8x more to change a simple outlet when uncle harry can do it for a buck tops.:no: 







electricmanscott said:


> So less than fifty dollar job vs $400?! Thumbs up corrupt NFPA


AFCI, nema wiring devices, and wire manufacturers are scoring big from this one. 






chicken steve said:


> ~CS~


:thumbup::laughing: AFCIs are still the same swine. :laughing:





ablyss said:


> I would only recommend using arc-fault breakers unless you had no other option. Nothing is more aggravating than having to make a service call to reset a GFCI outlet because the homeowner is either unable to reach it, unable to reset it, and/or unable to find it. In either case, the only right solution is to spend extra money and do it right.:whistling2:



And that's why I go for AFCI breakers over outlets. Sucks worse when a HO or sparky have to move a several hundred pound bed frame to reset something that might trip again. :no:


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