# You think you've got it bad?



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Poor bastids in Australia lost their jobs and ran out of beer at the same time  .

http://www.theage.com.au/business/w...ackings-stall-production-20160712-gq3zsx.html

"Those 50 workers ... have been working seven days a week, night and day, so the average punter out there can have a nice cold beer after a hard day's work, that's the way it should be".

Well said...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Perhaps they could switch to whine.....~C:whistling2:S~


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

looks like a tough crowd.

according to the article, their panties are all twisted up,  too.


you go girls !


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

If you support Union labor or not it's pretty messed up to lay off your whole maintenance dept of 54 people with families to support. It's that type crap that made Unions strong back in the day. Maybe if they flipped a bus or two...


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

wildleg said:


> looks like a tough crowd.
> 
> according to the article, their panties are all twisted up, too.
> 
> ...


Just not the same without a big inflatable rat.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

What I like is its not your average rat either, not like a Disney rat. It's got beady red eyes and yellow teeth. 

And it doesn't matter which trade or what state you see them in so it must be special order.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

drewsserviceco said:


> What I like is its not your average rat either, not like a Disney rat. It's got beady red eyes and yellow teeth.
> 
> And it doesn't matter which trade or what state you see them in so it must be special order.


It is and it Union made!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> If you support Union labor or not it's pretty messed up to lay off your whole maintenance dept of 54 people with families to support. It's that type crap that made Unions strong back in the day. Maybe if they flipped a bus or two...


I saw 3000 St J's truckers hit the bricks here years ago . 

They set tents up across from their prospective sites , while the company claimed chapter whatever 

I knew a few, and as i've an afl cio history ,talked to them

Their reps were powerless 

This pales by comparison to what the union busters that took down our area machinist union , which literally built the town it resides in

Now it's all prison workers, crackheads ,crackhouses and idiot libtard remedies to fix it all on my dime

Maybe if they burnt a politician or two.....

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> It is and it Union made!




don't get me started MechD.....:no:










~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I've setup a rat or two in my time.


View attachment 86449


View attachment 86457



Well, it was cold, so I just watched...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> don't get me started MechD.....:no:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have had far too many good experiences with the Unions I have been involved with to entertain any negativity toward them. My family has a long positive history with Unions as well. One of my Uncles was a founding member of a local in NJ right after he returned from Hawaii at the end of WWII. There was a time that Unions were a very necessary thing to protect the rights of workers that had been treated like slave labor. Nothing in life is perfect so don't expect Unions to be either.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

From reading the article the company switched maintenance contractors, so it is vague whether those workers actually worked directly for the brewing company or not. The way I read it the new contractor is non-union, so the brewing company will probably save buckets of money.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I don't have strong feelings about unions one way or the other but I love the blow up rat. Great symbolism.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

That rat looks racist to me....


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Unions could be a great equalizer in today's world economy. In fact there isn't a much better free market solution to economic suppression. But now that people cannot rely on a union they're looking up towards the government for direct intervention.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> Just not the same without a big inflatable rat.


With duct tape holding it together....from the walk by slashers..


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

"Electrical Trades Union state secretary Troy Gray said the sacked CUB staff, who were experienced in the brewery's highly complicated and unique machinery, were among the most skilled tradesmen in Melbourne."

Highly complicated.......LOL

That's some funny stuff right there...

FWIW I wish I could get VB here. Really good beer.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Why take a stab at the guy for his recognition of skills in these workers he doesn't possess? Do you think you have the skills to run a homemade still? Every process system has it's intricacies and unique finesse points.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I've setup a rat or two in my time.
> 
> 
> View attachment 86449
> ...


My God, that is an ugly neighborhood.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> That rat looks racist to me....


don't be a hater. Dark rat's lives matter.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

TGGT said:


> Unions could be a great equalizer in today's world economy. In fact there isn't a much better free market solution to economic suppression. But now that people cannot rely on a union they're looking up towards the government for direct intervention.


Really? How well does union labor compete with Mexicans willing to work in factories for $5 a day?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

All rat lives matter, just ask PETA !


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Going_Commando said:


> Really? How well does union labor compete with Mexicans willing to work in factories for $5 a day?


If the Mexicans could join a union they'd be more competitive with US workers.

There's a reason why this is discouraged, even illegal in poorer nations.

There was recently a massacre of striking union teachers in Mexico by their federal police.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> My God, that is an ugly neighborhood.


It was pretty much all commercial.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have had far too many good experiences with the Unions I have been involved with to entertain any negativity toward them. My family has a long positive history with Unions as well. One of my Uncles was a founding member of a local in NJ right after he returned from Hawaii at the end of WWII. There was a time that Unions were a very necessary thing to protect the rights of workers that had been treated like slave labor. Nothing in life is perfect so don't expect Unions to be either.


My Sici GF's were brickies , my Uncle was a Rep known as '_knuckles_' , lot of family Hx here . Some of whom held secret meeting forming unions back when the pinkertons would find a way to take you down MechD

I may be a renegade , but i appreciate the concept of collectivism 

My point is, it's under attack 

I'm sure i'm preachin' to the chior

~CS~


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have had far too many good experiences with the Unions I have been involved with to entertain any negativity toward them. My family has a long positive history with Unions as well. One of my Uncles was a founding member of a local in NJ right after he returned from Hawaii at the end of WWII. There was a time that Unions were a very necessary thing to protect the rights of workers that had been treated like slave labor. Nothing in life is perfect so don't expect Unions to be either.


If you did not have that signature and the posts you put up, I would have thought you hated unions and anyone associated with them.
Just a humble observation.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Perhaps a good example betwixt a union supporter _vs_ union blowhard John....~CS~


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> If you did not have that signature and the posts you put up, I would have thought you hated unions and anyone associated with them.
> Just a humble observation.


There are good and bad aspects to most things in life. I give credit where credit is due. I've had small differences of opinion with some policies over the years but can't complain about big issues.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Why take a stab at the guy for his recognition of skills in these workers he doesn't possess?


For the same reason he puts up rats, and degrages non-union workers, who happened to be skilled, yet can speak for themselves.



MechanicalDVR said:


> Do you think you have the skills to run a homemade still?
> 
> 
> > Yeah, without doubt. My cousin makes his own beer, and he ain't bright at all. I'm not interested in building one. My hooby is real estate, and golf.
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Helmut said:


> For the same reason he puts up rats, and *degrages non-union workers*, who happened to be skilled, *yet can speak for themselves*.


You complain about him degrading people, yet you just degraded me. 

I can speak for myself just fine. But I am smart enough to know when its advantageous to pay someone else to do it. I pay a lawyer, accountant, and countless other professionals to speak for me. That's the way the world works. Maybe if workers followed suit and did what the big boys do to make money, instead of beating their chest with false bravado claiming to do it themselves, they would lead a better life.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Helmut said:


> For the same reason he puts up rats, and degrages non-union workers, who happened to be skilled, yet can speak for themselves.
> 
> I was referring to the politician that made the speech.
> 
> ...


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)




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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

HackWork said:


> You complain about him degrading people, yet you just degraded me.


Like you don't degrade anyone? Anytime, for any reason?
Stop Hack, you're contradicting yourself now.




HackWork said:


> I can speak for myself just fine. But I am smart enough to know when its advantageous to pay someone else to do it. I pay a lawyer, accountant, and countless other professionals to speak for me. That's the way the world works.


So let's change it. Let's make this country less lawyer filled, less frivilous lawsuits, and less fraud by lawyers suing anyone for anything. Let's make a flat tax, and a tax code that's simple so we don't have to pay accountants, and businesses and people all start paying thier fair share. 



HackWork said:


> Maybe if workers followed suit and did what the big boys do to make money, instead of beating their chest with false bravado claiming to do it themselves, they would lead a better life.


Huh? 

Maybe if workers weren't one trick ponies, they would have the ability to make as much as they want to.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Helmut said:


> Like you don't degrade anyone? Anytime, for any reason?
> Stop Hack, you're *contradicting* yourself now.


 You clearly don't know what that word means. 

I pointed out that you were complaining about someone else degrading you, while you were in fact degrading other people, including me.

There is absolutely no contradiction there, just a fact. 




> So let's change it. Let's make this country less lawyer filled, less frivilous lawsuits, and less fraud by lawyers suing anyone for anything. Let's make a flat tax, and a tax code that's simple so we don't have to pay accountants, and businesses and people all start paying thier fair share.


 You can try to change whatever you like. But while the system is the way it is, it makes sense to use services that can help you get ahead. And it's very, very silly to act as if someone is less of a man for using those services.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

HackWork said:


> You can try to change whatever you like. But while the system is the way it is, it makes sense to use services that can help you get ahead. And it's very, very silly to act as if someone is less of a man for using those services.


It's funny you mentioned this because I've come to the same realization that while it's possible to change things, you have to play the game in the mean time. Otherwise you'll just be left behind wondering where all the time went.

I don't plan on laboring forever. Just or unjust it just doesn't pay.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

not to interupt, but having been in 3 different unions in the past, i respect totally what they are meant to be for, what they usually accomplish, and it is getting harder to that, but what one thing i felt trough the years is the fact that too many times ive seen the union protecting guys that do NOTHING! except for that, i believe in the purpose!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

papaotis said:


> not to interupt, but having been in 3 different unions in the past, i respect totally what they are meant to be for, what they usually accomplish, and it is getting harder to that, but what one thing i felt trough the years is the fact that too many times ive seen the union protecting guys that do NOTHING! except for that, i believe in the purpose!


What you mention is where things get sticky. Yes, the union protects slugs, but in some ways that is the purpose. Your lawyer is there to defend you even if you broke the law. Your accountant is there to defend you against the IRS even if you didn't bookkeep properly. That's the point, the union is a service paid for by the employees to protect the employees.

Is that the right way to do it? Well, that depends on who you ask. 

My own union decided that it wasn't going to protect the slugs, they were giving the union a bad rep. So they started kicking guys out. It actually came to the point that the BA's would complain to foreman for laying slugs off, the union wanted them fired so that they had the black mark against them and they had to sit in front of the board. Two fires and you're out of the union, but it is easier for the contractors to lay them off so they just get rotated back to another contractor.

Like everything in life, there is no easy answer.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

I think that there are two different types of unions. There's a construction type Union and then there's another type that I'm having trouble putting a label to, but for the sake of conversation will call it government/manufacturing. 

My experience with the construction union and slugs is like this, yes the slugs are there (they're in every field at every level) but I have a hard time saying they're protected. Typically they can only blend in on larger jobs and when it really comes down to it, they don't last. They don't last because of how tight the margins are on construction jobs and every man must produce, if you're not producing, you're down the road. As a foreman, it's your own job on the line if your crews don't produce and therefore there's no incentive to protect any weak links. 

I don't have a ton of personal experience with the government/manufacturing unions, but it is easy to see on the government side there is little ramification for not producing. It's not like the company (the government) is going to lose money, they can just raise taxes or increase budgets. (Simplistic I know, but you get the basic idea). 

Manufacturing has some accountability but it also has more moving parts and it seems easier to hide (or recover from) a lack of productivity. And, we've all heard stories about some of the ridiculous "rules" on overtime or workstations/machines being assigned to an individual and should someone else run that machine, both the assigned individual and this second operator get paid (often at overtime rates), or what is in reality a one person job being ruled a two person job and this team takes turns doing said job so that they can go do something else for half their shift. We've all heard the stories of a situation like this where the worker shows up to punch the clock, only to leave and work another job somewhere else, and then return to punch out.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

drewsserviceco said:


> I think that there are two different types of unions. There's a construction type Union and then there's another type that I'm having trouble putting a label to, but for the sake of conversation will call it government/manufacturing.
> 
> My experience with the construction union and slugs is like this, yes the slugs are there (they're in every field at every level) but I have a hard time saying they're protected. Typically they can only blend in on larger jobs and when it really comes down to it, they don't last. They don't last because of how tight the margins are on construction jobs and every man must produce, if you're not producing, you're down the road. As a foreman, it's your own job on the line if your crews don't produce and therefore there's no incentive to protect any weak links.
> 
> ...


A big part of the slug factor is making money. A worker on a construction job has to make progress for his employer to bill for a percentage of completion in order to have funds come in. Better producers will get better pay and have more opportunities based on production and skills.

A worker in a government position doesn't have to produce or complete anything. Funds are going to flow in through tax revenue and other means regardless to the amount of production of in the vast majority of positions. 
Workers know they are going to get cost of living wage increases and benefits for time in grade, no incentive to really do any better.


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