# extending romex in cabinetry



## roundrightfarm (Oct 2, 2016)

I am installing two receptacles on each side of a kitchen island where the romex is not quite long enough to place the receptacle within 12" of the countertop. I don't have the space to extend it in a junction box. What is the safest way that I can extend the romex while keeping it slim enough to allow drawers to slide?

Thanks


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Replace with wiremold or plugmold.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Cut further back to where you CAN set a j-box. Down around the toe-kick figures to work.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I wouldn't run romex inside a cabinet.

I'd find a good spot to transition to MC.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

A 1" C conduit body that's stamped for its volume should be about 12 cubic inches, which is enough to splice #14-2 or #12-2 inside.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

In wall splice?

But I would put a junction in basement right before it comes up.



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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> A 1" C conduit body that's stamped for its volume should be about 12 cubic inches, which is enough to splice #14-2 or #12-2 inside.





trentonmakes said:


> In wall splice?


I'd much rather use one of these than either of those two things.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

HackWork said:


> I'd much rather use one of these than either of those two things.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 132450


In wall splices ate awesome!

Though, not particularly for this situation

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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I'd much rather use one of these than either of those two things.
> 
> View attachment 132450


But you have to go to Home Depot to get it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> In wall splices ate awesome!
> 
> Though, not particularly for this situation


 I actually think those are horrible and prefer a box and wire nuts to them. 



five.five-six said:


> But you have to go to Home Depot to get it.


By supply House actually carries them. They’re really awesome boxes that help when you hit a snag.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> *In wall splice*?
> 
> But I would put a junction in basement right before it comes up.
> 
> ...


I thought you were being sarcastic until I google searched it.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Just did a kitchen....remove old light and add 3 recess.

Could not pull wire back to reach recess, so in wall splice. Tape it up, toss it in ceiling, patch the hole from old fixture and jump out the recess.

No extra holes in the ceiling.

They are great in situations like that.

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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> Just did a kitchen....remove old light and add 3 recess.
> 
> Could not pull wire back to reach recess, so in wall splice. Tape it up, toss it in ceiling, patch the hole from old fixture and jump out the recess.
> 
> ...


I looked at the spec sheet for the Tyco one and it says “CSA approval” on it, but I don’t think they allow them here.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

eddy current said:


> I looked at the spec sheet for the Tyco one and it says “CSA approval” on it, but I don’t think they allow them here.


If it's listed why would they not allow them?

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> If it's listed why would they not allow them?
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


A product being listed does not mean that the code adopted by the jurisdiction allows them. 

I completely forget, but I thought the NEC only allowed them in modular homes.

Either way, I trust an electrical box with perfectly made up wirenut splices more than that in-wall spice kit garbage.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

HackWork said:


> A product being listed does not mean that the code adopted by the jurisdiction allows them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Says they are approved for residential for the 2014 code cycle.

I prefer a junction box myself, but these things are handy when a box is not practical.

Thats why I only mentioned them above and recommend OP use a junction box, whether before entering cabinet or the slim one you posted.

Those slim ones are good for when the drawers are close to the cabinet too. 

I can't remember if a GFI can fit in them or not? I think it does but its very tight.

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> Says they are approved for residential for the 2014 code cycle.


 The Kenny Clamp also says that it's required by code, it's advertising bologna.

Sure its approve for residential, but only under certain circumstances.



> I prefer a junction box myself, but these things are handy when a box is not practical.


 I can't see a situation in which that in-wall splice would work but a box won't work. 

I don't like that in-wall splice at all. I think the metal strain relief cuts into the sheathing and the connections are crappy.



> I can't remember if a GFI can fit in them or not? I think it does but its very tight.


 Nope, the outside depth measurement of the box is 1-1.4". GFCI's are deeper than that. Nevermind the wires coming out of the back.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> eddy current said:
> 
> 
> > I looked at the spec sheet for the Tyco one and it says “CSA approval” on it, but I don’t think they allow them here.
> ...


Our code says joints, splices in concealed wiring shall be made in a box. CEC 12-506(2)

ETA. we also can not bury a box as per our code. 

I don’t know how they got the listing but I noticed they are not available here, I found them on the US Home Depot website only.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

I don't use those metal clips, I just tape it up.

I've used them several times, it's much simpler than cutting dry wall and running a new switch leg, not too mention all the patching afterwards.

I don't like the idea if theres any future issues that thing is now buried.

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> I don't use those metal clips, I just tape it up.
> 
> I've used them several times, it's much simpler than cutting dry wall and running a new switch leg, not too mention all the patching afterwards.
> 
> I don't like the idea if theres any future issues that thing is now buried.


I did a quick search and those are only listed for repairs (ie. a plumber drilled thru a wire), not adding stuff like recessed lights. 

So if it's against code anyway, just use a box and wirenuts. :biggrin:


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

334.40 BOXES AND FITTINGS.

(B) DEVICES OF INSULATING MATERIAL.*SELF-CONTAINED SWITCHES, SELF-CONTAINED RECEPTACLES, *AND NONMETALLIC-SHEATHED CABLE INTERCONNECTOR DEVICES OF INSULATING MATERIAL THAT ARE LISTED SHALL BE PERMITTED TO BE USED WITHOUT BOXES IN EXPOSED CABLE WIRING AND FOR REPAIR WIRING IN EXISTING BUILDINGS WHERE THE CABLE IS CONCEALED*

As far as I know it complies with code. A buried junction box does not.


I swear, the more I learn, the sillier it gets. Lol

Why can you not just bury a junction box then? Theres no chance in hell a splice is going to come undone.

Hell, im just going to use a cut-in box with a blank plate from now on! Lol



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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Wait...that says exposed don't it. Lol

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> Wait...that says exposed don't it. Lol
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


Read the last part, "REPAIR WIRING IN EXISTING BUILDINGS WHERE THE CABLE IS CONCEALED".

So what you did was against code. Knowing that, just use a junction box which is also against code but cheaper and better.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Yeah, I caught that after I posted it. Lol

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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I'd much rather use one of these than either of those two things.
> 
> View attachment 132450


Those are great, the EC I worked for used them for all island outlets. I'd never used them before and now it's all I'll use for that purpose. :thumbup:


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

MTW said:


> HackWork said:
> 
> 
> > I'd much rather use one of these than either of those two things.
> ...


Those boxes don’t have a clamp for the wire? I don’t think we have those here. I can read on it something about the wire must be strapped within a certain distance to the box?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

eddy current said:


> Those boxes don’t have a clamp for the wire? I don’t think we have those here. I can read on it something about the wire must be strapped within a certain distance to the box?


The plastic tab is the clamp.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

MTW said:


> eddy current said:
> 
> 
> > Those boxes don’t have a clamp for the wire? I don’t think we have those here. I can read on it something about the wire must be strapped within a certain distance to the box?
> ...


I see. 

In the pic It looked to me like it would just brake off and leave a hole.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> Those are great, the EC I worked for used them for all island outlets. I'd never used them before and now it's all I'll use for that purpose. :thumbup:


Why? Because they don't extend far into the cabinet space?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Why? Because they don't extend far into the cabinet space?


99% of the time there's a drawer or spice rack in the island and that box fits perfectly next to it. It allowed us to do what would be impossible otherwise.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

eddy current said:


> I see.
> 
> In the pic It looked to me like it would just brake off and leave a hole.



It doesn't. I have used many of them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't like the tab because it pushes the cable forward, it is better to have it pushed up against the back of the box. So I have always just pulled the tab out of flattened it up against the back of the box as much as I can.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I don't like the tab because it pushes the cable forward, it is better to have it pushed up against the back of the box. So I have always just pulled the tab out of flattened it up against the back of the box as much as I can.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


>


I'd love to knock your teeth out.


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## Gnome (Dec 25, 2013)

eddy current said:


> Our code says joints, splices in concealed wiring shall be made in a box. CEC 12-506(2)
> 
> ETA. we also can not bury a box as per our code.
> 
> I don’t know how they got the listing but I noticed they are not available here, I found them on the US Home Depot website only.


I think the listing is for mobile homes. Apparently double and triple wides use them for making connection between units (I've heard; haven't seen it)


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Worst case scenario, you can shorten a drawer to make room. I have never done it myself but GC’s have done it for me.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Gnome said:


> I think the listing is for mobile homes. Apparently double and triple wides use them for making connection between units (I've heard; haven't seen it)



https://eiabc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/NMD-Splice-Kits.pdf


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Back to my post about plugmold, not only do they make sexy little connection boxes for it, it also meets the requirement for a recep within 24” of the end of the countertop. 

It’s a little bit of a PITA to work with but the finished product is nice for the customer if well thought out and installed correctly.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

five.five-six said:


> Back to my post about plugmold, not only do they make sexy little connection boxes for it, it also meets the requirement for a recep within 24” of the end of the countertop.
> 
> It’s a little bit of a PITA to work with but the finished product is nice for the customer if well thought out and installed correctly.


They have them in GFI now also if I'm not mistaken

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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

```

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trentonmakes said:


> They have them in GFI now also if I'm not mistaken
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk



Sure, and you can use a GFCI breaker, I know it’s expensive but cheeper than wallboard repair or cabinet work.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

You should be able to fit a 4-inch square 1 1/2" box in there somewhere. Get creative. There is usually a few inches of space behind the drawers. There is space between the drawers. As someone else said, you can just splce it in the basement below if that is accessable. If none of that is feasible, pull the drawers out, and cut an old work box in the bottom of the cabinet under the bottom drawer face up. Surely there's enough room to sneak a blank plate in there.
As far as the outlets, cut them in horizontally up high on the side of the cabinet towards the rear just underneath the top drawer slide. There should be enough room between the top and second drawer to get an old work box in. 
If none of that works, attach a wiremold box under the overhang within 6 in of the edge. Either a normal wiremold box, or one of those fancy angled ones meant for under cabinet outlets. If it's a stone countertop, epoxy the box to it.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I'd love to knock your teeth out.


 story.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

splatz said:


> A 1" C conduit body that's stamped for its volume should be about 12 cubic inches, which is enough to splice #14-2 or #12-2 inside.


While true, and I've been known to use this gambit, it'd be rather strange for a Residential Electrician to have even one conduit body on his van/truck.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

telsa said:


> While true, and I've been known to use this gambit, it'd be rather strange for a Residential Electrician to have even one conduit body on his van/truck.


Between PVC and EMT, half-inch and three-quarter inch, I have about 10 to 12 on my truck.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

MTW said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HackWork*
> _I'd love to knock your teeth out._
> 
> ...


How long have you 2 been married? You either need to get a room or a Divorce:vs_laugh:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

JoeSparky said:


> How long have you 2 been married? You either need to get a room or a Divorce:vs_laugh:


Exactly!


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## Gnome (Dec 25, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Between PVC and EMT, half-inch and three-quarter inch, I have about 10 to 12 on my truck.


Arlinton any bodies would get that down to 4 if only needed singles and around here they are usually less than a dollar difference; sometimes even cheaper. And they have a volume listed on their website but I don't have one handy to see if it is stamped on the bodies themselves.


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## Frank DuVal (Feb 6, 2009)

Those shallow boxes shown by Hack work well for me in cabinets. No modifications needed to cabinet. No need for MC on residential cabinet jobs..... The MC connector does not fit well into shallow boxes!


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I've had reasonably good luck with 2 1/2" deep steel switch boxes fitting in islands next to a drawer. Clamp down the romex, cut the clamp screw poking through the back, and off to the races. I dont like those super shallow blue plastic boxes that some guys like.


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