# Washdown motor disconnects



## Mbit

I've replaced 6 or 7 of these in the last 1.5 months, and have more to replace still.
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/abb/eot16u3p4-p/70094277/
They are 4X and claim the ability to withstand washdown but they're not.

I'm ordering a couple of these to start and see if they're good.
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/hubbell-wiring-device-kellems/hblds3nk/70394210/ 

Still economical but have IP 69K rating so should hold up better, maybe. It's a food plant. people love pressure washing anything electrical it seems.

Anybody have any specific recommendations?


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## tmessner

We have used these with good results: https://www.zoro.com/square-d-disconnect-switch-30a-600vac-3ph-md3304x/i/G4071024/ Eaton also makes on that is very rbust if you have a supplier that can get pricing for you: ER53040UX


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## just the cowboy

The IP rating 69K is the thing that makes it better, look up IP VS Nema ratings.
BUT Operator training is the key thing. They are rated for a 'Degree Of Protection" against water not waterproof.

My other question is is it hot water they are using? Could be a condensation problem.
Again it goes back to operator training, they don't care that it is not designed to withstand the pressure directed at it continuously.

Good luck
Cowboy


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## gpop

Mbit said:


> I've replaced 6 or 7 of these in the last 1.5 months, and have more to replace still.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/product/abb/eot16u3p4-p/70094277/
> They are 4X and claim the ability to withstand washdown but they're not.
> 
> I'm ordering a couple of these to start and see if they're good.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/product/hubbell-wiring-device-kellems/hblds3nk/70394210/
> 
> Still economical but have IP 69K rating so should hold up better, maybe. It's a food plant. people love pressure washing anything electrical it seems.
> 
> Anybody have any specific recommendations?


hubbell ones are ok for wash down but the mounting brackets break easy.

Where are the conduits entering and exiting the disconnect as that's normally the problem rather than the seals on the disconnect.


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## Forge Boyz

tmessner said:


> We have used these with good results: https://www.zoro.com/square-d-disconnect-switch-30a-600vac-3ph-md3304x/i/G4071024/ Eaton also makes on that is very rbust if you have a supplier that can get pricing for you: ER53040UX


You know, that looks identical to the Socomec disconnects that automationdirect.com sells for almost $50 less. I would bet they are the same think.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Mbit

just the cowboy said:


> The IP rating 69K is the thing that makes it better, look up IP VS Nema ratings.
> BUT Operator training is the key thing. They are rated for a 'Degree Of Protection" against water not waterproof.
> 
> My other question is is it hot water they are using? Could be a condensation problem.
> Again it goes back to operator training, they don't care that it is not designed to withstand the pressure directed at it continuously.
> 
> Good luck
> Cowboy


Operator training...., thanks for the laugh this morning:vs_laugh:


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## Mbit

gpop said:


> hubbell ones are ok for wash down but the mounting brackets break easy.
> 
> Where are the conduits entering and exiting the disconnect as that's normally the problem rather than the seals on the disconnect.


No conduits here all cable


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## Mbit

Forge Boyz said:


> You know, that looks identical to the Socomec disconnects that automationdirect.com sells for almost $50 less. I would bet they are the same think.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Yeah they do. And they also look pretty similiar to ABB version we're currently using. Probably same manufacturer. The ABB ones are "assembled in USA" but the actual disconnect inside is made in Finland.


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## Forge Boyz

Mbit said:


> Yeah they do. And they also look pretty similiar to ABB version we're currently using. Probably same manufacturer. The ABB ones are "assembled in USA" but the actual disconnect inside is made in Finland.


I think they are Mersen

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## just the cowboy

Mbit said:


> Operator training...., thanks for the laugh this morning:vs_laugh:


 Yes I know where you are coming from.

I came from a cough syrup plant, everything got washed down. You can't water proof explosion proof devices they are meant to vent gases upon explosion. Try teaching that to an cleaner.


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## Mbit

tmessner said:


> We have used these with good results: https://www.zoro.com/square-d-disconnect-switch-30a-600vac-3ph-md3304x/i/G4071024/ Eaton also makes on that is very rbust if you have a supplier that can get pricing for you: ER53040UX


I like that Eaton unit. The problem is the design of the front cover might be a sanitary issue how it folds back and creates a little canyon for stuff to get stuck. They're going to be mounted on the ceiling.

I did notice that eaton sells what looks like the same model as the Hubbell.

I really like the build of these eaton arrow heart stainless discos. The seal looks good.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/wiring-devices-and-connectivity/motor-controls-disconnect-switches.html


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## Cow

We've standardized on those Hubbell's, we've installed several hundred of them. You can replace just the disconnect mechanism when they wear out, which is convenient. Hubbell has been making that same disconnect style for at least 20 years. 

I never have an issue with them. We have them in haycuber operations, feed mills, seed cleaning plants, dairies, and food processing plants, etc. They do have plastic feet but they use thicker plastic than the typical nema 4x plastic rotary disconnects most manufacturers sell. If you mount them to a flat surface you're fine, if you try and mount them to the face of strut using bolts, washers, and spring nuts, you'll need to put a square strut washer behind the feet.

I drill a small drain hole in the bottom of them in wet/hosedown locations because nothing is perfectly sealed, no matter what the listing says.


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## gpop

Mbit said:


> I like that Eaton unit. The problem is the design of the front cover might be a sanitary issue how it folds back and creates a little canyon for stuff to get stuck. They're going to be mounted on the ceiling.
> 
> I did notice that eaton sells what looks like the same model as the Hubbell.
> 
> I really like the build of these eaton arrow heart stainless discos. The seal looks good.
> 
> https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/wiring-devices-and-connectivity/motor-controls-disconnect-switches.html


when you put eaton and stainless in the same sentence what you are really saying is ....... I like to cut my fingers and knuckles as they love to pre-sharpen the edges.


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## gpop

Mbit said:


> No conduits here all cable


All entry/exits at the bottom of the disconnect?


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## Mbit

bring the pain


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## Mbit

They're mounted in the ceiling, it's a very low ceiling


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## Mbit

gpop said:


> All entry/exits at the bottom of the disconnect?





Cow said:


> We've standardized on those Hubbell's, we've installed several hundred of them. You can replace just the disconnect mechanism when they wear out, which is convenient. Hubbell has been making that same disconnect style for at least 20 years.
> 
> I never have an issue with them. We have them in haycuber operations, feed mills, seed cleaning plants, dairies, and food processing plants, etc. They do have plastic feet but they use thicker plastic than the typical nema 4x plastic rotary disconnects most manufacturers sell. If you mount them to a flat surface you're fine, if you try and mount them to the face of strut using bolts, washers, and spring nuts, you'll need to put a square strut washer behind the feet.
> 
> I drill a small drain hole in the bottom of them in wet/hosedown locations because nothing is perfectly sealed, no matter what the listing says.


Ok, I have 10 on order! That makes me feel better.


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## 460 Delta

gpop said:


> when you put eaton and stainless in the same sentence what you are really saying is ....... I like to cut my fingers and knuckles as they love to pre-sharpen the edges.


Eaton must have hired some laid off engineers from GE.:wink:


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## Funksparky

tmessner said:


> We have used these with good results: https://www.zoro.com/square-d-disconnect-switch-30a-600vac-3ph-md3304x/i/G4071024/ Eaton also makes on that is very rbust if you have a supplier that can get pricing for you: ER53040UX



I’ve had good luck with these as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jlarson

I've used a lot of the Hubbles too, we've also used a lot of bryant mms/discos, they aren't horrible either.


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## Navyguy

Mbit said:


> I've replaced 6 or 7 of these in the last 1.5 months, and have more to replace still.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/product/abb/eot16u3p4-p/70094277/
> They are 4X and claim the ability to withstand washdown but they're not.
> 
> I'm ordering a couple of these to start and see if they're good.
> https://www.alliedelec.com/product/hubbell-wiring-device-kellems/hblds3nk/70394210/
> 
> Still economical but have IP 69K rating so should hold up better, maybe. It's a food plant. people love pressure washing anything electrical it seems.
> 
> Anybody have any specific recommendations?


My experience is that it does not matter what you put in there, it will still get rotted out because you are creating condensation inside the box.

I was a maintenance supervisor in a poultry plant, we went from 33*F to 180*F from production temp to washdown temp in a matter of minutes. Condensation formed inside all the conduits, boxes, etc. What our approach was that we would only enter a box from the bottom and would almost exclusively use a "T" fitting. The bottom of the "T" fitting was open to act as a drain.

The switch or control was encased in the PVC lockable box. The advantage to this was we could use less expensive "disco" and still have a visual and lockable solution. The temp delta around the inside box was reduced (increased?) when it go to the 180*F washdown simply because of the air gap around the exterior box and the control item.

Cheers
John


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## Mbit

That's a good tip never thought of that.


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## MotoGP1199

The first style you posted definitely looks like the handle is made by mersen. If you take it apart the back of the handle has a very very thin o-ring that looks like it could leak easily. There are only 2 screws at a 45* angle. Its probably the worst looking o-ring setup I have ever seen.


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## JRaef

IP65 CAN pass UL type 4X tests under controlled laboratory conditions, but in reality the DESIGN of IP65 is to withstand the equivalent of a shower head. 4X testing is 65GPM from a 1" fire hose (about 60PSI), so IP65 basically works if you aim it straight on, but not from the back.


NEMA 4X test:






IP65 test:






Not the same...


IP69 is "Heavy Seas" and brief submersion, closer to NEMA 6, so it SHOULD be better. Still not the same though.


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## Mbit

Ok boys. Just got the Hubbell discos in and my counterpart mounted the first one it, it looks good. Just put in an order for more. The ABB's are dropping like flys.

I'll post some pics when I can.


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