# Sicialized Medicine.



## europamo (Jul 21, 2008)

I lived in Europe and had better health care then here in the USA. As for saying that we can all get treated tell that to my wife who had cancer and could not get any treatment, now she is having to go through more treatment.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

euro: expand please

Where in Europe?

Euro I do not know your circumstances and my heart goes out to anyone with medical problems and especially those suffering with the bureaucracy that comes with it. 

I am only going on my expierences and those of others I know. My Grandmother use to say. Those that claim the Canadian healt care system is so great never had to use it.

And as sad as this may seem I SERIUOSLY doubt a program run my our government would offer any better.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

And note to Brian if you want to rant PLEASE LEARN TO SPELL *SOCIALIZED*


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## europamo (Jul 21, 2008)

brian john said:


> euro: expand please
> 
> Where in Europe?
> 
> ...


I lived in Germany.

I can tell you my own personal experience with social medice, the VA Medical system is atrocious. I used to work for them as well be a patient. There is an awful system infected with federal workers. 

On the flip side Insurance companies are awful. They find more ways to not pay while you keep your end of the bargin by pating your premiums each month. The cost and what is covered is negotiated by each employer and state laws. This means for example 2 company workers in the a state can have the same company and have 2 different costs as types of coverage. This also means 2 federal workers can have the same problem if the work for the same agency and live in 2 different states.

Here is another issue. If I was unemployed I could not even get Medicare for my wife and child because my disability compensation from the VA each month is too much. I get $1340 per month. That is $16,080 per year which is nothing to survive on here where I live in the DC Metro area.

I feel medical coverage is not a privelage but a right. Call me a socialist if you will, but the more healthy our society is, the more people can work. That means we probably can sustain a society that is a bit more productive in all facets of human life.

/rant off


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

golly-gee guys!!! lets all move to france!!! (yeah, right)


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> the VA Medical system is atrocious[/quote]
> This is the same government the promoters of socialized medicine want to implement our new services.
> 
> 
> ...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

socialism works in homogeneous societies, sometimes....I can attest to it to my experiences with the Swedish healthcare system to be on par with Brian John's British system.

The US is way to heterogeneous to even think about everyone looking out for the common good. And for a socialist system to work, the common good must be at the forefront.

It will never work here, and it will be 1000% worse than our current worst HMO...

I pay $1000/month for me and my son...but I have great healthcare. When he was born, he was in the NICU for a month. It cost me $250 out of pocket. Try that in Sweden or England.

I'm not familiar with Germany, so I won't speak. But many Canadians wait 6 weeks for an MRI, but they can get one for their dog in 2 days (since the government MRI is only open certain hours, then rents the space to vets for the other hours)

oh well, good luck.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I have coverage through my company and cover all my men (union contractor). I had a heart attack and it ran into $90,000.00, had about $1,000.00 out of pocket. Plus excellent follow up care. My Mother-in-law in England is still struggling to get medical care with a compound fracture.

I have heard many horror stories from Americans BUT never known one personally. Which may be why I feel they are few and far between. EXIST YES, common NO. And their frequency would only increase with government assistance.

How many times do you hear about medicare? Oh a couple times a year and all the stories are about fraud and government ripoffs due to the inability of the government to manage SH*T.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

The worst story I have personal knowledge of is the town I live in. There have been at least two cops that have come down with cancer on the job and treatment isn't covered by their health plan. There have been fund raisers for help with medical bills. Since it all came about one of the officers had passed away. To me that is deplorable to have such minimal coverage.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> The worst story I have personal knowledge of is the town I live in. There have been at least two cops that have come down with cancer on the job and treatment isn't covered by their health plan. There have been fund raisers for help with medical bills. Since it all came about one of the officers had passed away. To me that is deplorable to have such minimal coverage.


 
Typically they get a choice of health plans and what they pick is determined by what they want to pay out of pocket. BUT EVERY AREA VARIES.

AT a minimum one can buy cathstrophic insurance that has like a 10,000.00 deductible. I had to do this years ago when there was NO WORK.


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## europamo (Jul 21, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> The worst story I have personal knowledge of is the town I live in. There have been at least two cops that have come down with cancer on the job and treatment isn't covered by their health plan. There have been fund raisers for help with medical bills. Since it all came about one of the officers had passed away. To me that is deplorable to have such minimal coverage.


this happens alot, I always get calls over the years from PBA's asking for donations to help officers in need.

But as far as union coverage, mine has not kicked in yet. Getting 80% of everything covered and not having to pay a dime torwards monthly premiums is pretty good. Then again, its a hard job that is dangerous.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Most police I know are union and up north I would have to assume this is even more of a reality. WHAT TO HELL IS THEIR UNION DOING? These guys work for the same counties that have teachers that IMO have some excellent benefits.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

brian john said:


> Most police I know are union and up north I would have to assume this is even more of a reality. WHAT TO HELL IS THEIR UNION DOING? These guys work for the same counties that have teachers that IMO have some excellent benefits.


They are members of the PBA (union), apparently they aren't doing much for their members. There was an article in the local paper a couple of weeks back about a female officer that was hurt on duty and the Dr. said she could come back on light duty and they said they didn't have lite duty for her. All politics. The same town has some of the highest paid people in education (teachers/principles) in the area.


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## Ecopat (Apr 17, 2008)

God that red writing hurt my eyes.
We are having massive problems here in the UK with hospital borne viruses & infections, Norwalk & MRSA.
You dont go to a hospital to get an infection do you, you go to get better.
France does seem to have a far superior health system to ours, we used to have the best in the world now it's just a joke.
I always go private now (BUPA)


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

All right it has now been 10 days since mu Mother-in-Law broke her ankle, she was final schedule for surgery, the doctor says he can't operate now because the ankle was so mishandled that she has new bruising and needs to wait longer for the swelling to go down AGAIN. She was scheduled for surgery yesterday and did not eat after mid-night 24 hours later the told her they were done for the day and would have her first on the list for today. BUT they couldn't because she needed to eat so the let her eat a meal at 1:00 AM so they could do surgery today after 6:00PM.

My brother-in-laws says it is a damn good thing they have visiting hours cause there are no nurses and they have to take care of her needs.

Any politician that tell you socialized method is the way is going to screw us. Believe me congress will have a sseparate system.


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## Kletis (Jan 18, 2008)

I am very sorry to hear about the troubles that your Mother in law is having and I hope it all works out for the best. I agree that healthcare is too expensive but after watching my buddies struggle to just get small things done with the VA I know that I don't want any part of a healthcare system that is run by the government. At least now you can pay too much and get whatever you need done.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Some of my English relatives have private health insurance and rely on the gov program for expensive stuff.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

It has now been two weeks and surgery was scheduled for 2:00AM our time (7:00 UK) it is now 7:48 our time 12:48 UK they wheeled her back to her room maybe tomorrow. Oh she has not eaten in almost 48 hours again. Oh during all this last week they were to give her an IV and forgot to remove a caustic cleaning agent from the tubes. Burnt her hand, they were worried that there might be tendon damage to her hand but this seems to have been avoided.

Socialized medicine anyone?


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## Rong (Feb 23, 2008)

brian john said:


> It has now been two weeks and surgery was scheduled for 2:00AM our time (7:00 UK) it is now 7:48 our time 12:48 UK they wheeled her back to her room maybe tomorrow. Oh she has not eaten in almost 48 hours again. Oh during all this last week they were to give her an IV and forgot to remove a caustic cleaning agent from the tubes. Burnt her hand, they were worried that there might be tendon damage to her hand but this seems to have been avoided.
> 
> Socialized medicine anyone?


 That is what scares me about Socialized medicine. I agree something has to be done with the health care system but it seems everytime Big Brother steps in things go from bad to worse. Look at FEMA good idea on paper. And oh BTW who ends up paying anyways.. We the People!!


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

> *Sicialized Medicine*


Is this where Gaetano and Nunzio come over from the old country and "take care of you" when you get real sick?





Come on guys. This thread needed a little levity. :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Is this where Gaetano and Nunzio come over from the old country and "take care of you" when you get real sick?


SP:

I addressed this, my typing sucks and spell check does not do the subject header....

BUT MAYBE A MODERATOR could lend a hand....


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Aw gee. I like it that way. :laughing: :thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

For the life of me Brian I can't figure out how to edit the title.
I'm not sure I can.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Man, Brian John, normally I agree with everything you write... but here a distinction must be made.

If we had a socialized healthcare system here, it would help even the playing field between union and non-union contractors. If both sides of the fence were paying similar costs into health and welfare, it would be a major loss for 'the other side.' I sure learned alot 'slamming trunks' but, I had no coverage at all, and that's no way to treat people who in this country could be one illness or at-home-accident away from bankruptcy.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Man, Brian John, normally I agree with everything you write... but here a distinction must be made.
> 
> If we had a socialized healthcare system here, it would help even the playing field between union and non-union contractors. If both sides of the fence were paying similar costs into health and welfare, it would be a major loss for 'the other side.' I sure learned alot 'slamming trunks' but, I had no coverage at all, and that's no way to treat people who in this country could be one illness or at-home-accident away from bankruptcy.


so, in an effort to 'level the playing field' we give everyone bad health care? makes sense to me...

as an open shop that provides full health care, i don't want to level the field with the trunk slammers that way...


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

oldman said:


> so, in an effort to 'level the playing field' we give everyone bad health care? makes sense to me...
> If Obama gets his way.
> 
> as an open shop that provides full health care, i don't want to level the field with the trunk slammers that way...


AMEN.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Is this where Gaetano and Nunzio come over from the old country and "take care of you" when you get real sick?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Even my grandparents would enjoy that one.:thumbup:


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

europamo said:


> I lived in Germany.
> 
> I can tell you my own personal experience with social medice, the VA Medical system is atrocious. I used to work for them as well be a patient. There is an awful system infected with federal workers.
> 
> ...


The people who are running the VA system are going to run the whole country's. Why do you think it is going to be better?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Man, Brian John, normally I agree with everything you write... but here a distinction must be made.
> 
> If we had a socialized healthcare system here, it would help even the playing field between union and non-union contractors. If both sides of the fence were paying similar costs into health and welfare, it would be a major loss for 'the other side.' I sure learned alot 'slamming trunks' but, I had no coverage at all, and that's no way to treat people who in this country could be one illness or at-home-accident away from bankruptcy.


 
No it wouldn't, YOU would see an increase in taxes for a system that would be broke before it started.

Name on thing your federal government does that those that use the system say WOW, that was a good expierence>

What should might work would be requiring employers to provide a basic level of health care. BUT not Uncle Sam.

2 weeks one day and 36 hours without food she finally had surgery. Can you imagine having a compound fracture and going 15 days without having the necessary surgery to set the bone?


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## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

*no socialized med's*

I was trying to think of just one thing the government does well. Public education? no that's failing, and if you gave everyone back their tax money that went to that they would all put their kids in private schools just like our elected politicians do. The military could be very good if the politicians would get out of their way. Social security, that's going broke. Medicare, it's going broke and the fraud is incredible and a lot of doctors won't take it. To get a real idea of what the government is really like you must work for them sometime. In my youth I worked for the Post Office, the people are lazy and could care less about your letters and packages. Spent some time working for a county school district, wow, absolutely criminal. We did maintainance for several schools, if you want to know why the buildings and grounds are falling apart, spent a few days there following the workers around. And remember this one little fact, it is almost impossible to fire someone who works for the government. They could kill someone on the job and before you could fire them you would first have to give them counseling and job seperation therapy. So you go to a socialized gov doc and he botches your case, would it matter? He would still have a job and good luck trying to sue the gov. Given a choice between socialized medicine and no medicine, I'll take my chances on the latter. Here is another thought. Union healthcare is about the same as thing as socialized in terms of a pool of workers/employers paying into a common policy. Why is it so expensive??? My cost if I run out of hours is about $1000 per month with deductibles on top of that. I can go out into the private feild and get coveryage for about $300 per month. And don't tell me it helps cover the retirees, they have to pay a percentage to keep their coverage and the go on medicare first as their primary insurer. Just wondering.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Health care doesn't matter now,

Because we aren't going to be working very much in the next few years!

Ahhh well, look for my trunk slammin in your neighborhood!

P.S. If the inspector comes, I will just RUN


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I wish I had some kind of insurance.

Oh wait!

I do!

For my little 87 Accord. :icon_cheesygrin:


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