# The good of the union.



## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

I see there are always a lot of negative reviews of local unions. Well thanks to many great donations of time, labor, and financial aid to many good causes in my community, my local and many great members present and past, have always kept our reputation. It has always been and will be, because of its great members a pillar of this community. It has been a great advancement for me since I organized. I have donated time as well, and know of several members that donate much of their personal time for a great cause. If you listen to bashing of unions and believe it all, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link on electriciantalk. There are great members to outweigh the bad.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I'd like to think the good outweighs the bad.....~CS~


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Oh, by the way. Everyone knows the media loves to be casualty vampires looking for the worst possible moment to display news. Right up next to lawyers on my list.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

The only way to have a strong union is to be part of the community. Guess we should be more selective.


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## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

cl219um said:


> Oh, by the way. Everyone knows *the media loves to be casualty vampires looking for the worst possible moment to display news.* Right up next to lawyers on my list.


So true. Whenever I see a picket line on the news the media likes to show the largest union member they can find. 

:laughing:

Borgi


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

cl219um said:


> The only way to have a strong union is to subscribe to the collective. Guess we should be less selective.


fify

~C:whistling2:S~


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> fify
> 
> ~C:whistling2:S~


Should we ask mc clary to organize the collective are a dime a dozen. Gotta limit it to team players. Would like to jam, but its meeting night for this collective organized electricians that I belong to. I got a voice other than electriciantalk to display my interests. Cya.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

cl219um said:


> Should we ask mc clary to organize the collective are a dime a dozen


Indeed

so i the course of less than an hour, you've gone from _'we're all in this together'_ to _'our sh*t don't stink'_ 

You sir, are doing unions, unionization, collectivism , or anything even close to the concept zero good

*DISMISSED!*

~CS~


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

I have no issue with unions for the reasons you have said. However you also need to recognize all of the open shops that do the exact same things. Just sayin.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Indeed
> 
> so i the course of less than an hour, you've gone from _'we're all in this together'_ to _'our sh*t don't stink'_
> 
> ...


Our goal is to organize every electrician. You think he will join us in unity. Your nuts. He has been bashing and bad mouthing it. Are you blind? What planet are you on?


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Dismissed. Listen motherplucker. I stand up for my brothers. This nonsense of posting crap deliberately of some of the media highlights of issues the union has had had absolutely nothing to do with the op that closed. I feel bad that he is on strike or lockout. He is out of work and has bills to pay. I will dismiss myself from this conversation. Good night.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

cl219um said:


> Our goal is to organize every electrician. You think he will join us in unity. Your nuts. He has been bashing and bad mouthing it. Are you blind? What planet are you on?


What if they don't want to be organized?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I've read a lot of what cl219um has posted on here and I've come to notice the recurrent theme.

Simply stated....."we're all in this together as long as you're a union member and the rest of you are completely wrong for not being members"



> I stand up for my brothers


Thanks, _brother_,but I've been in IBEW for a good many years and I haven't needed you or your type, to stand up for me for any reason. Stop buying into the idea that every one who dares to speak out against unions and the strong-arm tactics and bull**** that has been used over the years and your attitude will likely change. That's when you will start doing some real good for the collective idea. 
Both sides need to try hard to remember that at the end of the day, we are all electricians here and in the field and all of us benefit from the forward strides achieved by those of us on both sides of the fence.


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## The_kid (Nov 4, 2014)

You make the union sound like a cult. I'm scared. 

But I heard the halls have some great punch!


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## 6huck7035 (Jul 13, 2014)

Rollie73 said:


> I've read a lot of what cl219um has posted on here and I've come to notice the recurrent theme. Simply stated....."we're all in this together as long as you're a union member and the rest of you are completely wrong for not being members" Thanks, brother,but I've been in IBEW for a good many years and I haven't needed you or your type, to stand up for me for any reason. Stop buying into the idea that every one who dares to speak out against unions and the strong-arm tactics and bull**** that has been used over the years and your attitude will likely change. That's when you will start doing some real good for the collective idea. Both sides need to try hard to remember that at the end of the day, we are all electricians here and in the field and all of us benefit from the forward strides achieved by those of us on both sides of the fence.


Rollie73, I appreciate what you said. I don't mind you being in a union. That's your choice. You looked at the options and decided that's what's best for you. Me, I've done the same thing and decided that merit shop is the way to go. cl219um told you what he wants. He wants to organize all electricians whether they want to or not. If more electricians, both union and non-union, thought the way you did we wouldn't have these conversations. Good luck to you.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

For some odd reason I got the feeling that cl219um is Cletis. 

I do not believe that everyone belong in any one group. It does not work that way. We do need collective bargaining for many of us, but we also need the non union tradesmen out there, doing their thing their own way.

What we don't need are crappy companies and low ballers and craigslist contractors who bring ALL of us down and to that end I would hope all of us would find a way to get along. The trade makes us all a good solid living and we owe it to the trade and each other to be supportive of each other.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

cl219um said:


> The only way to have a strong union is to be part of the community. Guess we should be more selective.





cl219um said:


> Our goal is to organize every electrician.


Selective or every electrician?

No offense but when you sling the words our and we around you include me and we don't have the same goals.

IBMcClaryL


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

cl219um said:


> Dismissed. Listen motherplucker. I stand up for my brothers. This nonsense of posting crap deliberately of some of the media highlights of issues the union has had had absolutely nothing to do with the op that closed. I feel bad that he is on strike or lockout. He is out of work and has bills to pay. I will dismiss myself from this conversation. Good night.


Still no strike or lock out.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

3D Electric said:


> I have no issue with unions for the reasons you have said. However you also need to recognize all of the open shops that do the exact same things. Just sayin.


Like have pensions, benefits? Where I am from originally, they did. Where I live now, nothing. Hourly wage is the same. Other than that, nothing. I think in bigger city atmosphere where companies have to offer benefits, they do. When the competition is not there, the employee gets bent over. Open shops in my opinion, pay not according to skill. Suck pumps get a kicker. Fast talkers get another. Skill level is a matter of opinion.. I think they should start an open shop forum where you could start threads. Then i could come on and beat you down, belittle your opinions, spin words around and make you feel like a bad person. I for one do not. I don't care if fellow brothers even stick up for my voice. They have been brow beaten by the open shop guys,cause lets face it. You guys have got the market share. I can understand why you folks are so defensive though. Most are smaller contractors. Not employees. I thought the words bashing the unions were bad the way my old boss explained them too. I believed him as my teacher. Heck, you quit the union and hired me so I had to humor him at least. I was very loyal. A pretty good employee. He even mentioned starting a shop where I wanted to live. I don't think you guys understand. I am not some guy whose dad was an electrician, and was born to be a union man.. It works for me, but don't appreciate guys bashing me, and see it as us against them. Everyone wants the dream. Whatever you do to get it is up to you. I sleep very good at night. Do I believe that that non union contractor I was faithful to for years would have opened an office where I live? Maybe. They love the lies. And if a person looks me in the eye and tells me he will do something, I will believe. If not . Goodbye. You guys spending all this time banging on your keyboard. Wasting time, causing arguement. Replying to union threads especially. I think you are hiding, or making up for something.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

eejack said:


> Selective or every electrician?
> 
> No offense but when you sling the words our and we around you include me and we don't have the same goals.
> 
> IBMcClaryL


I think it would be hard to swing mc clary, but he could come too, I guess. EVERYone. Just need one thing from him. He is no longer to label us all as the weakest link caught on tape. What are your goals. You are such a upstanding member that replies to everyone in such a grammatically perfect, don't rock the boat method, that your opinion comes off like a sharp sponge.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

cl219um said:


> I think it would be hard to swing mc clary, but he could come too, I guess. EVERYone. Just need one thing from him. He is no longer to label us all as the weakest link caught on tape. What are your goals. You are such a upstanding member that replies to everyone in such a grammatically perfect, don't rock the boat method, that your opinion comes off like a sharp sponge.


There will always be those that hate something else - it is human nature to lash out at what you cannot have or do not understand or what scares you.

The best way to get folks to stop labeling 'us all as the weakest link caught on tape' is to act with professionalism and kind courtesy. If we all act better we all benefit. My only goal is to try to be better at what I do - and I very often do not succeed.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

cl219um said:


> Then i could come on and beat you down, belittle your opinions, spin words around and make you feel like a bad person.


Now if you read every word I said, not once did I belittle your opinions, spin words or make you look like a bad person.

My first job in the trade was for a company here in Wichita that does mainly residential new construction. They offered a 401k, pto, progressive pay raises with hours worked, free training and paid continuing educating. Hell when my truck broke down my boss even gave me his personal vehicle to drive until I fixed it. 

With what you are saying you are doing the exact thing you claim open shops are doing to you. Why can't you accept that different people want different things? I do not want to be organized. Does this make me ignorant? No it makes me opinionated. You want to be organized and a part of the union. Does that make you ignorant? No. It is what you chose to do and it apparently works well for you. 

Just see that another walk of life is not stupid or ignorant. It is just a different choice. No worse and no better than the choice you have already made.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

cl219um said:


> I think it would be hard to swing mc clary, but he could come too, I guess. EVERYone. Just need one thing from him. He is no longer to label us all as the weakest link caught on tape. What are your goals. You are such a upstanding member that replies to everyone in such a grammatically perfect, don't rock the boat method, that your opinion comes off like a sharp sponge.


I say forget about McClary and go for Shockdoc!


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

eejack said:


> The best way to get folks to stop labeling 'us all as the weakest link caught on tape' is to act with professionalism and kind courtesy. If we all act better we all benefit. My only goal is to try to be better at what I do - and I very often do not succeed.


Thanks double E. We may not always agree on all things union but I really appreciate the attitude you have shown above. Its nothing short of the honest truth. Kudos my man.......well said.:thumbsup:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Rollie73 said:


> Thanks double E. We may not always agree on all things union but I really appreciate the attitude you have shown above. Its nothing short of the honest truth. Kudos my man.......well said.:thumbsup:


This is nice for now. If I changed one persons opinion , because of this thread, I am glad. May not have been my doing, but some brothers pulled together and that's what it's about.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> Indeed
> 
> so i the course of less than an hour, you've gone from _'we're all in this together'_ to _'our sh*t don't stink'_
> 
> ...


Yep. Even when I try to stay out , they run their mouth. Pretty typical


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Yep. Even when I try to stay out , they run their mouth. Pretty typical


Finally here. That took way too long. Lets see some videos from the run your mouthers. Forty hour week, weekends, minimum wage, social security... Guess who brought this to life. Come on. You know this. It wasn't ABC.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Finally here. That took way too long. Lets see some videos from the run your mouthers. Forty hour week, weekends, minimum wage, social security... Guess who brought this to life. Come on. You know this. It wasn't ABC.


 
Seriously..........let it go.

mcclary may be vocal about his opinions of the union and he is fully entitled to be that way and to voice his thoughts anytime and anyway he pleases but this trying to bait him into another argument just to prove some childish, asinine point on an internet forum is just making the rest of us IBEW folk look bad.

You're playing the union thug which is doing the union no good at all and is in fact proving every point mcclary has brought up on this site.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

cl219um said:


> Finally here. That took way too long. Lets see some videos from the run your mouthers. Forty hour week, weekends, minimum wage, social security... Guess who brought this to life. Come on. You know this. It wasn't ABC.


To answer your question, for the most part it was Henry Ford


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

electricalwiz said:


> To answer your question, for the most part it was Henry Ford


Actually - no. Henry Ford paid well because he wanted to create a market for his vehicles. 

Give him credit for good marketing, the assembly line and taking good advantage of interchangeable parts and using wages as a tool to stabilize his workforce ( like costco vs walmart ), but he treated his workers brutally.

Things were so bad there is an old wives tale that Adolf Hitler was such a great admirer of Henry Ford that he modeled the Gestapo after the Ford Service Department. So let us get away from good ol' Henry as a friend of the working class. :thumbsup:

The forty hour week and weekends are brought to you by organized labor. The minimum wage and social security come to you via the New Deal.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

eejack said:


> Actually - no. Henry Ford paid well because he wanted to create a market for his vehicles.
> 
> Give him credit for good marketing, the assembly line and taking good advantage of interchangeable parts and using wages as a tool to stabilize his workforce ( like costco vs walmart ), but he treated his workers brutally.
> 
> ...


He did support the forty hour week, but he treated all of his workers differently depending on his opinions. There was nothing fair about his tactics for his profit share program. Brutality wasn't out of the question for him either. Battle of the overpass.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

eejack said:


> Actually - no. Henry Ford paid well because he wanted to create a market for his vehicles.
> 
> Give him credit for good marketing, the assembly line and taking good advantage of interchangeable parts and using wages as a tool to stabilize his workforce ( like costco vs walmart ), but he treated his workers brutally.
> 
> ...


Hahahah....oh really?




http://blog.pickcrew.com/why-you-shouldnt-work-set-hours/

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/97358938?width=360




From one of the articles, but both deserve a read:


How the 40-hour work week came to be

During the Industrial Revolution, factories needed to be running around the clock so employees during this era frequently worked between 10-16 hour days.

In the 1920s however, it was*Henry Ford, founder of Ford Motor Company, that established the 5-day, 40-hour work week.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Hahahah....oh really?


Yes, really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> In the 1920s however, it was*Henry Ford, founder of Ford Motor Company, that established the 5-day, 40-hour work week.


If you research the source of that material you will find it was a short book written by Henry Ford. He says he created it. Kind of like Edison says he created all the things he created.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

eejack said:


> If you research the source of that material you will find it was a short book written by Henry Ford. He says he created it. Kind of like Edison says he created all the things he created.


It wasn't put into federal law without the unions. Henry ford did have it in effect for his workforce.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

eejack said:


> If you research the source of that material you will find it was a short book written by Henry Ford. He says he created it. Kind of like Edison says he created all the things he created.


It wasn't put into federal law without the unions. Henry ford did have it in effect for his workforce. Maybe not their original idea, ...


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

cl219um said:


> It wasn't put into federal law without the unions. Henry ford did have it in effect for his workforce.


Yes, but decades after many others did it. He also did it for reasons not covered in mcclary's fawning articles. His decision to do so did force many others to do the same ( as did his increasing wages and his removal of skill positions in manufacturing ).

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-factory-workers-get-40-hour-week


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Hahahah....oh really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you looked up The battle of the overpass. Sounds a lot relating to some of the videos you posted, but the other way around. Labor needs unions. I cringe the day that they are not around. The middle class is declining at the same pace of. Guess they don't want us at their golf courses any more. Or at their fancy eatin places either. We can't even afford their electronics and store bought goods. Cars? The new ones are for the wealthy. Priced right out of our market. The white collar outsourced us all, and sold us out to red nations. Hard to believe in America today.


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