# A Bit of Advice



## Hand Wired (Jun 23, 2017)

Thanks for the tips.


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## StriickeN (Sep 11, 2017)

Great post, thank you!


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## Shaneyj (Mar 21, 2017)

Well put 

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## Strat9 (Aug 13, 2017)

LoL...I’m in the 3rd month of my apprenticeship and the OP’s post is spot on. It’s not hard to shine with the current crop of workers/apprentices.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The older generation has lamented about the kids coming up since the very beginning of writing -- Sumer ~ 5,500 years ago.

The Greeks had an identical complaint... as did the Depression Era parents of the Greatest Generation.

Get used to it.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I may have to print that out and tape it to the gang box! 

Thanks for taking the time to write it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Man, I wish I had one great apprentice like you had.

Don't get me wrong, I've had some that were great people if only they didn't have time issues, didn't smoke or toke, and could show up on Monday without being hung over.

I can honestly say everyone I had brought home problems to work and I tried to help many of them with those outside work problems.

I've bought some tools, given them meters, bought cases of diapers, cosigned a couple car loans, brought them lunch, and even babysat kids so they could have a date night, etc.

Some of my apprentices couldn't wait to be able to get out there and go do side work but didn't have the same ambition to learn the necessary skills first.

I've bailed more than one out that got in way over their head.

If an apprentice comes in daily on time (less their phone) with the attitude they want to learn, get the job done and done well I'd do whatever they need to help them succeed.


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## Bgmatt (Oct 7, 2017)

Thanks for the advice. As a guy in his first semester of tech school, it's good to know that there is a market out there for people who make up for what they lack in experience with a strong work ethic. I'm looking forward to learning more.


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## CanIBorrowYour (Oct 2, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Man, I wish I had one great apprentice like you had.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've had some that were great people if only they didn't have time issues, didn't smoke or toke, and could show up on Monday without being hung over.
> 
> ...


Mechanical,

Not all of the apprentices I mentioned were under my supervision, but that of someone I worked with. Yes, great though. 

The thing I learned was that first impressions are usually true. As much as I hate to see it, when you hire a green apprentice, you're basically signing up to lose some money on them for a bit. So I choose to invest in the person. If a kid shows up for an interview with a clean cut haircut, a polo shirt and seems well spoken, I'll choose him 10/10 then the kid with a bit more experience.

I can teach anyone electrical if they want to learn. What I can't teach is work ethic, people skills, and the ability to act and dress appropriately for the situation. 

Thanks for your response.


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## CanIBorrowYour (Oct 2, 2017)

Bgmatt said:


> Thanks for the advice. As a guy in his first semester of tech school, it's good to know that there is a market out there for people who make up for what they lack in experience with a strong work ethic. I'm looking forward to learning more.


I agree. There certainly is a market for it, but typically not in the larger companies, from my experience.

When I was trying to enter the field, I couldn't find someone who wanted to hire a green apprentice for the life of me.

What I did was - offer to work for free for two weeks. It hurts, and obviously isn't possible in all financial situations. But I wanted to prove to him that I was a safe bet. I'd work hard and be professional, and two weeks was enough for me to get the hang of things for him to mitigate his losses. You can usually teach a kid the name of fittings and how to terminate devices in two weeks.

Two weeks came and he handed me a check for the hours I worked and offered me a job. 

Good luck! I'm always here to help if you need it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

CanIBorrowYour said:


> Mechanical,
> 
> Not all of the apprentices I mentioned were under my supervision, but that of someone I worked with. Yes, great though.
> 
> ...



You're welcome.

I sat here after I read your post and went over apprentices I've had with me and evaluated them.

The couple with a decent work ethic didn't care about what their work looked like or how they left a work site, as long as it worked.

Over all the rest really only did the minimum not to get fired and get their check.

Keep in mind I am talking going back to the mid 1980s for the pool of apprentices I critiqued.


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## CanIBorrowYour (Oct 2, 2017)

MechanicalDVR said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> I sat here after I read your post and went over apprentices I've had with me and evaluated them.
> 
> ...


I don't think that when they started makes a difference. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck. The benefit of working with a very small crew is the ability to be picky.

If someone's not doing things the way they are supposed to be done, doesn't have a good work ethic, or doesn't really care, we have the ability to find someone new. 

The flip side to this, is when you put in so much effort to finding quality apprentices - you really must take good care of them, or your search will start all over. 

Always a pleasure to read your input.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

CanIBorrowYour said:


> I don't think that when they started makes a difference. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck. The benefit of working with a very small crew is the ability to be picky.
> 
> If someone's not doing things the way they are supposed to be done, doesn't have a good work ethic, or doesn't really care, we have the ability to find someone new.
> 
> ...


This holds true for any employee
Theres nothing to stop someone from hopping if they are not treated well.

You can pretty much tell who is wanting to learn and is a hard worker as opposed to someone just getting by.

Small crew also gives the apprentice a tremendous amount of hands on experience they would likely not get as fast in larger crews.

Texting and Driving


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## CanIBorrowYour (Oct 2, 2017)

trentonmakes said:


> This holds true for any employee
> Theres nothing to stop someone from hopping if they are not treated well.
> 
> You can pretty much tell who is wanting to learn and is a hard worker as opposed to someone just getting by.
> ...


 That is true. I always have focused treating mechanics like professionals instead of like numbers. I tend to find that everything you do to/for your guys comes back to you 10 fold. Good or bad. 

My point was that the level of this is amplified if you're in a situation where you need high quality apprentices - such as in smaller shops where they're more hands on, like you said. 

A larger shop that uses apprentices differently may not care if their apprentices are happy or not with their compensation and relationship with supervisors.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

CanIBorrowYour said:


> I don't think that when they started makes a difference. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck. The benefit of working with a very small crew is the ability to be picky.
> 
> If someone's not doing things the way they are supposed to be done, doesn't have a good work ethic, or doesn't really care, we have the ability to find someone new.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

Like I said I've had some that were and still are great guys.

Of the ones I still keep in contact with two became good journeymen overall.

A few others have moved onto different careers such as paid firemen and a cop or two.


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## ericpl92 (Jan 4, 2016)

this was a nice read; i'm gonna take this info with me once I enter the field. i'm almost finished with this electrical program at Lincoln tech and can't wait to get out there


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

In the past it was so much easier to get work in general. Just walk into a place and sell yourself to the employer. When I was 18, I went to a small electrical contractor and asked for work. I told the owner that I would work for a week and if I was no good he did not even have to pay me. Believe it or not it worked. I got the job. Today we apply on-line for work, submit a cover letter and a resume. That applies to any job. 
Specific training and certifications would be important in landing a job as an apprentice. 
Your appearance and attitude is also important. In my opinion the most important thing to consider is who you know. If you have a friend that worked for a company that you were applying for they would be a very valuable resource. They would be the one who would give you tips on when they were hiring and what the company was looking for. Having said that if you do land a job. Give it all you have to prove your value. I worked for a contractor as an apprentice and work slowed down so they had to let someone go. They actually had myself and another apprentice run conduit in 2 septate but identical hotel rooms. The one who finished first keep their job. Work had and don't complain. Do exactly what your told, unless it's unsafe! Once you have established yourself you should be in good shape. Something else to consider would be the willingness to travel. Go where the work is. In all the years I have been in the trade I have never had an apprentice so I can't speak to that. If the circumstances were different and I had the opportunity I would expect them to follow instructions and maintain a good attitude. I would have them preforming task I did not want to do but would never put them in a dangerous situation. I imagine that it would slow me down at first but with some basic training they would become a big asset. Everyone has special abilities both learned and natural. Some people are not very good with hands on work either because they had not been exposed to it or just plain clumsy. Learning how to properly use tools and equipment take time. If your like me you learn more by doing that you would in class. In my case an apprentice with a background in programing or electronics would be a plus. Someone who was familiar with thermal imaging might be valuable to someone else. Knowledge is power and hard work is honorable. The electrical trade is a great way to make a living and is worth the effort. Good luck ..


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## CanIBorrowYour (Oct 2, 2017)

Easy said:


> In the past it was so much easier to get work in general. Just walk into a place and sell yourself to the employer. When I was 18, I went to a small electrical contractor and asked for work. I told the owner that I would work for a week and if I was no good he did not even have to pay me. Believe it or not it worked. I got the job. Today we apply on-line for work, submit a cover letter and a resume. That applies to any job.
> Specific training and certifications would be important in landing a job as an apprentice.
> Your appearance and attitude is also important. In my opinion the most important thing to consider is who you know. If you have a friend that worked for a company that you were applying for they would be a very valuable resource. They would be the one who would give you tips on when they were hiring and what the company was looking for. Having said that if you do land a job. Give it all you have to prove your value. I worked for a contractor as an apprentice and work slowed down so they had to let someone go. They actually had myself and another apprentice run conduit in 2 septate but identical hotel rooms. The one who finished first keep their job. Work had and don't complain. Do exactly what your told, unless it's unsafe! Once you have established yourself you should be in good shape. Something else to consider would be the willingness to travel. Go where the work is. In all the years I have been in the trade I have never had an apprentice so I can't speak to that. If the circumstances were different and I had the opportunity I would expect them to follow instructions and maintain a good attitude. I would have them preforming task I did not want to do but would never put them in a dangerous situation. I imagine that it would slow me down at first but with some basic training they would become a big asset. Everyone has special abilities both learned and natural. Some people are not very good with hands on work either because they had not been exposed to it or just plain clumsy. Learning how to properly use tools and equipment take time. If your like me you learn more by doing that you would in class. In my case an apprentice with a background in programing or electronics would be a plus. Someone who was familiar with thermal imaging might be valuable to someone else. Knowledge is power and hard work is honorable. The electrical trade is a great way to make a living and is worth the effort. Good luck ..


Well said, Easy.


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## SydneyElectricians (Nov 1, 2017)

Such an informative post...Thak You


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