# Cutler Hammer breaker in house blows up



## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

When I got there they said that the AC unit and a few lights weren't working but everything else was fine!. The main breaker never tripped and as bad as it looks the only real damage was the buss tab that the 30A 2 pole was on was gone.
I've seen this a couple of times in commercial work but never in a house.
The house was built in '06 which would put this breaker no more than 6 years old.
My questions are have any of you seen this before and does the homeowner have any recourse with Cutler Hammer. 
My bill to replace the interior was less than their insurance deductible so they are out of pocket for the whole thing.


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## dieselram752 (Jan 23, 2008)

Wonder it they were the imported fake breakers I keep reading about from china?


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

dr electron said:


> When I got there they said that the AC unit and a few lights weren't working but everything else was fine!. The main breaker never tripped and as bad as it looks the only real damage was the buss tab that the 30A 2 pole was on was gone.
> I've seen this a couple of times in commercial work but never in a house.
> The house was built in '06 which would put this breaker no more than 6 years old.
> My questions are have any of you seen this before and does the homeowner have any recourse with Cutler Hammer.
> My bill to replace the interior was less than their insurance deductible so they are out of pocket for the whole thing.



Yes, I have seen it before, not only with CH.

I would say the breaker was not making good contact with the bars it was clipped onto.

Also, it could be an overload. Take a load reading?

It could also be a faulty breaker.

They are made on a production line, and I would bet they are not all tested.

If you can prove it is only six years old, you could try to get re-imbursed by CH.

They will ask a million questions. GOOD LUCK.

I M O, part of the panel may have to be replaced, because it may short to ground.

It has an easier path now!


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## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

oldtimer said:


> Yes, I have seen it before, not only with CH.
> 
> I would say the breaker was not making good contact with the bars it was clipped onto.
> 
> ...


I replaced the entire interior with a new one.
I kind of figured CH would make it difficult if not impossible to get any money back.
Load checked out fine even did a start up with the meter on.
They told me that breaker had tripped a few times in the couple of days before.
I'm thinking bad breaker.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

*Burnt buss bar/ poor seat breaker*

I would call Cutler-Hammer and try to fight for some warranty.

Ive seen that happen to many times and almost always to old Bryant, ITE, Murray, and FPE made panels. Seen it on a few newer panels too, thou only on occasion. Damp basements seem to make it worse.

Not sure if its just a coincidence but 95 percent of the time I find a burnt bus in a panel the bus is made out of aluminum. For this reason I try to install cooper bus panels as much as possible.:thumbsup: Does anybody else find aluminum buses less reliable and by how much?


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I say it didn't blow up, it melted from poor connection!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

bobelectric said:


> I say it didn't blow up, it melted from poor connection!


That is what it looks like to me as well.

Probably by water damage.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

dr electron said:


> I replaced the entire interior with a new one.
> I kind of figured CH would make it difficult if not impossible to get any money back.
> Load checked out fine even did a start up with the meter on.
> They told me that breaker had tripped a few times in the couple of days before.
> I'm thinking bad breaker.


Did you advise them that a breaker usually trips for a reason and instead of just repeatedly resetting it they may want to call an electrician to find the cause before they burn their house down.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

AFOREMA1 said:


> Did you advise them that a breaker usually trips for a reason and instead of just repeatedly deserting it they may want to call an electrician to find the chase before they burn their house down.


It's not uncommon for a breaker to begin tripping when it goes into melt down mode like that. The heat from the bad connection will raise the ambient temp of the breaker and cause it to trip.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

AFOREMA1 said:


> Did you advise them that a breaker usually trips for a reason and instead of just repeatedly *deserting* it they may want to call an electrician to find the *chase* before they burn their house down.


LOL deserting the breaker? Finding the chase? :laughing: Oops...


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

It's obvious why it failed...SE cable feeding panel:whistling2:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Let's be clear... That panel may have said CutlerHammer on it, but that's the Bryant legacy line. A real CH-CH wouldn't have done that.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Let's be clear... That panel may have said CutlerHammer on it, but that's the Bryant legacy line. A real CH-CH wouldn't have done that.


That's true, but only as a result of C-H swallowing up Westinghouse, Bryant, and Challenger. Those aforementioned brands were in existence for many decades.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

backstay said:


> It's obvious why it failed...SE cable feeding panel:whistling2:


My observation powers go a bit further. Since they used a CH- BR panel, its obvious to me that they also used blue Carlon nail on boxes for the devices. Thats where the problem came from...........


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> That's true, but only as a result of C-H swallowing up Westinghouse, Bryant, and Challenger. Those aforementioned brands were in existence for many decades.


Yeah, I think they really only wanted Westinghouse power breakers.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> My observation powers go a bit further. Since they used a CH- BR panel, its obvious to me that they also used blue Carlon nail on boxes for the devices. Thats where the problem came from...........


If you're going to start it, at least finish it...Leviton devices, and there's surely some Scotchkote involved somewhere.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, I think they really only wanted Westinghouse power breakers.


If I'm not mistaken, since I don't normally deal with large stuff, C-H gear is also the Westinghouse design.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Peter D said:


> If you're going to start it, at least finish it...Leviton devices, and there's surely some Scotchkote involved somewhere.


Don't forget barrel crimps and uninsulated romex staples........




It pretty much looks like a non union installation, yeah, thats what happened.....



Or maybe it was performed by a __________ voter...

Or, one who was an atheist....

Or a tree hugger.

or wears leather slaps.

Or got fat eating at McDonalds


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

mxslick said:


> LOL deserting the breaker? Finding the chase? :laughing: Oops...


Damn spell correction on the phone keeps changing my words.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

I swap out a few 100 amp mains every year. And I don't even do residential. I usually get the call long before the bus melts. The most likely cause was a loose connection. Think of that breaker as a back stabbed receptacle.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> If I'm not mistaken, since I don't normally deal with large stuff, C-H gear is also the Westinghouse design.


Yup, thus my earlier post.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It's not uncommon for a breaker to begin tripping when it goes into melt down mode like that. The heat from the bad connection will raise the ambient temp of the breaker and cause it to trip.


A very good point and a reason that a breaker should not be reset repeatedly without finding the cause.


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## dr electron (May 3, 2009)

Thanks all. After reading all of the posts I'm now thinking it was a bad connection to the buss. I personally never liked the snap on breakers. Give me a bolt on any day.
And yes aforma I made it very clear that if a breaker trips once it may be a surge or just a fluke. But after the second time the cause needs to be found.


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