# Union vs Non union



## Lynch1234 (Mar 14, 2018)

Hey all, 

I’m 19 years old about to turn 20. For the past year I’ve been working with a data telecommunications company. I want to become an electrician and get my electrical license now. There are plenty of non union shops around where I live and I’m in contact with one now but I’m not sure which is better for me a union shop or non union shop. I know some differences between the two but not all of the differences. I’m not sure if union if your able to get paid time off or vacation time and which is better to start at and potentially work your way up the company. So if anyone could help with any advice it would be greatly appreciated


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The union sets minimums. If you are a good enough employee you can get paid for days off or vacation. 

Many locals have vacation funds which money goes into every week and adds up to 2-4 weeks of pay per year that you can take out and use during your vacations.

All of the differences between union and non-union have been spelled out hundreds of times in this forum over the last 10+ years. Read thru the threads, you will learn a lot.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Perhaps the biggest benefit, in my mind, is a formalized education process that takes you step-by-step from knowing nothing to potentially knowing a little something. I'm sure many guys will enumerate various other benefits that, in my estimation, are mixed up with politics which I try to stay out of as much as possible. You can be as successful in an open shop as much as you could be going the union route, but it really depends on your area. You could also end up laid off a lot going one route or the other. Again, depending on your area.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

IMO there are three routes:
-Union apprenticeship
-Non Union apprenticeship
-Non formal education (books, courses, votech)

You really want #1 or #2. Option 3 may limit future job oppurtunities.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome aboard @Lynch1234!

You will never go wrong by going the union route.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Union = Pension


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

daveEM said:


> Union = Pension


In the US pensions are like Social Security woefully underfunded. Benefits can be cut or become next to nonexistent.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Union will complete your training*

I did a non-union apprenticeship, but it was run as a federal employee. The thing I see with a nonunion apprenticeship is the employer can let you go and you have nowhere to go and finish. Union will find you more work and finish your training. I did non-union and a friend I grew up with did union at the same time. 
I need to work till 70 years old ( 59 now)
He is retired and seeing the world.

Good luck
Cowboy


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Go union if there is a strong union and they have work.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

brian john said:


> Go union if there is a strong union and they have work.


he is 59 years old, I think that bus has passed by.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

360max said:


> he is 59 years old, I think that bus has passed by.


OP is 19yrs old.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

360max said:


> he is 59 years old, I think that bus has passed by.


Why do you post at all? Every post is more stupid than the last.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Be careful where you join.
Once your at a hall you may be stuck at that location for the rest of your career.
This will be a problem if you want to permanently move.
Or if they are slow or don't pay as well as others.


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## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

In my opion i have worked both non union for 6 years and union since June .

Their are both pros and cons to both 
Sides and it mostly depends what part of country you are from .

In the northeast I believe the pros of joining a union out weigh the cons .

Pros to going union , pension, annuity, afordable healthcare , 5 years of schooling , vacation check ,

Pay is more than double of non union , possibility of being on hudge projects , more professional , 

The contractors are set to a contract through collective bargaining so all your wages and benies are already set for you. So you never have to negotiate your wage , and get low balled ,can’t get fired for no reason , safety conditions are better , and if you get layed off you wage stays the same and hall will find you wrk ,

And a hudge one is the pride that comes with being a union brother 
Is awesome , at least for me I love what the union represents and stands for , how they fight for the middle class and working man ,

Cons of going union , some areas are very slow no wrk Bc non union rates are a lot cheaper getting under bid,

You can’t find your own wrk where ever hall sends you you go could be two hours away , dosnt matter .

Your political views might be diff 
Unions tend to bck Democrats.

While your a apprentice your pretty much whale **** and told this daily 
If you don’t have strong skin you won’t survive .

You could be on a hudge job as apprentice and hand material in a cage for a year straight 

Or just do outlets , manual labor for 
A long time , as a non union guy 
I was doing mechanics wrk off the rip 
Bc I was good and got lucky to wrk with Forman building gear , panels , conduit , now I cnt even look at a gear rm ,

But in my opion In the nj, ny, ct area. The pros of being in the union 
Are far more rewarding than non union , just the wage diff alone

Jw make around 20-30 non union 
Jw make around 37-60 union 

Plus pension , annuity , healthcare


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Working union is much better because of the education for apprentices, continuing education for journeyman, pay and benefits, safety and a whole bunch of other things. 
BUT and its a huge but is it can come down to where you live. 
Its great to have everything I listed above and then some but it only means something if you are actually working. In some areas of the USA unions are very weak or treated in a hostile manner and work is hard to come by on a consistent basis so its can be feast or famine or you may have to travel to other local unions for work. Traveling can be great and you can really learn a lot because you are exposed to people who often see things in a different then where you are from and in fact some of the traveling brothers might be some of the best conduit benders I have ever come across. But if you have family traveling can lead to some very hard choices and cause problems in relationships...travelling isnt easy when thats the case in fact its actually heart breaking because you miss your wife and kids but at the same time you need to provide for them so you bottle it up, put your head down and drive forward despite missing them. 

I see you are from Kentucky and I know nothing of the area. 
Does the union there have steady work? 
Does the union at least have a stronghold in the college towns ie UK or Louisville area?
Does the union do any work in mining areas, is it enough to employ many?
Depending on where you live can you cross over into Ohio or Indiana along the border for work?
Who does the work at the Amazon warehouse in Louisville because that place can put people to work steady just by its share size. Its an amazing complex.

I would like to tell you go union but you need to research your area because it just not as simple as telling someone YES without out fully knowing the work picture of where you are located


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## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

bostonPedro said:


> Working union is much better because of the education for apprentices, continuing education for journeyman, pay and benefits, safety and a whole bunch of other things.
> BUT and its a huge but is it can come down to where you live.
> Its great to have everything I listed above and then some but it only means something if you are actually working. In some areas of the USA unions are very weak or treated in a hostile manner and work is hard to come by on a consistent basis so its can be feast or famine or you may have to travel to other local unions for work. Traveling can be great and you can really learn a lot because you are exposed to people who often see things in a different then where you are from and in fact some of the traveling brothers might be some of the best conduit benders I have ever come across. But if you have family traveling can lead to some very hard choices and cause problems in relationships...travelling isnt easy when thats the case in fact its actually heart breaking because you miss your wife and kids but at the same time you need to provide for them so you bottle it up, put your head down and drive forward despite missing them.
> 
> ...


Very true Pedro and well written .
Are you currently working in Boston 103?. How are the locals in mass , or are you traveling .

Wrk in ny state is very strong and the unions have a strong hold on 
Their territories through good politics , and tactics also setting up pla,s were over a sertain amonut of money on a contract has to go union ..
Also it is just known that our territory
Is union and a lot of wrk goes to us ,
Ny state locals are doing very well 
Most of the books stay cleared year round . 

We’re I grew up in ct I talked to a friend of mine and he said local 90 , 488 , are hurting he’s almost layed off all the time no wrk and locals do not have a strong hold on their territory even tho ct is pro union .

So yea we’re you live is hudge part of it .


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Switchgear277 said:


> Very true Pedro and well written .
> Are you currently working in Boston 103?. How are the locals in mass , or are you traveling .
> 
> Wrk in ny state is very strong and the unions have a strong hold on
> ...


The work picture here is simply amazing right now. There is a building boom in high end residential towers and in commercial towers, expansion of biotech companies of which there are many in the area, public transportation projects not too mention a power plant that is starting to wind down but then another one will be picking up. 
The relationship with politicians is stable and productive and the relationships with GC's and EC's is good. There is also an effort via market recovery to go after and get even more work and that program is showing positive results. Outreach programs to help those in need ie Habitat for Humanity etc etc as well as those in the military serving over seas are doing good, blood drives and free health drives helping members are in place and one is actually coming up soon. The tentacles because of our work and actions as well as the leadership in place now and in the past is making us stronger and reaching out farther into areas we generally didnt get work. 
Wish I could wave a wand all over especially to our southern brothers and sisters and make everywhere like here


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## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

bostonPedro said:


> Switchgear277 said:
> 
> 
> > Very true Pedro and well written .
> ...


Glad things are going well in btown,
Sounds exactly like the situation in ny state , I pray it stays like this !!!
I’m a first year apprentice so hopefully in 4 years when I’m a jw things will still be this busy 

Best of luck brother .


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Switchgear277 said:


> Glad things are going well in btown,
> Sounds exactly like the situation in ny state , I pray it stays like this !!!
> I’m a first year apprentice so hopefully in 4 years when I’m a jw things will still be this busy
> 
> Best of luck brother .


Thanks and best of luck to you also brother


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