# To be, or not to be an electrician



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'lll try to help you out.



LatinAce said:


> I'm thinking of going to everest college for the electrician trade. It's a 9 month course, And cost 15k.


Holy crap, that's expensive. I'd shop some more unless they have guaranteed placement or your money back. 



LatinAce said:


> Can u guys tell me how much I might start making after getting my certificate?


I suppose that depends on geography, but in my area, about 12 bucks.



LatinAce said:


> What's an average salary for an electrician?


No such thing as average, but the typical range is between 30 and 65K in my area.



LatinAce said:


> What time do you guys usually start work and what time does it end?


Depends on whether you do service or construction. Construction is typically as early as 6 or 7 and service is normally 7 or 8. Construction normally ends at the same time every day, but service can be all weird hours and stop times. 



LatinAce said:


> Do you like being an electrician?


So far. The male exotic dancer thing never really worked out.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I'lll try to help you out.
> 
> Holy crap, that's expensive. I'd shop some more unless they have guaranteed placement or your money back.
> 
> ...



In my area of CA, the bay area, its usual to start around 12-16/hr and end up anywhere from 58k a year to 87k a year depending on the company/union or non union/specialty area ex. PLCs and whatnot.

As far as "do you like being an electrician": Yes, I will be an electrician until I physically cannot any longer. :thumbsup:

~Matt


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I think paying for training is a waste. I just do not have faith in these programs. Based on their web site I would not give them a DIME.

PLUS have any on here ever met an electrician from these programs (INCLUDING JOB CORP)

Get into an approved program and the training is free.

In Washington DC 65,000.00-100,000.00.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

brian john said:


> I think paying for training is a waste. I just do not have faith in these programs.


I agree. One of those schools opened up in my town, and I was pretty excited. "Finally", I thought, "I can finally have a place to hire some people who are truly interested in this stuff". Within 3 years, the school was closed. They did such a poor job, the guys that spent their GI Bill money there got it all back (from the government or the school, I don't know), but they had to re-train someplace else. I knew one of the teachers of the program, and I wouldn't necessarily call him a superstar. If you were to attend such a school, wouldn't you want the instructors to be the best of the best? I got graduate referrals, but none of them were worth the time it took to interview them. Had their heads all full of dollar signs and no real experience. The attendance requirements of the school were pretty lax too. Not a good sign when you need a guy to show up to work every day and he couldn't even manage to make it to class every day... a class that he was paying for!


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

LatinAce said:


> Hey guys, can u help me out? I'm 27 from California, I just recently got liad off from a manufacturing company. Now that I'm unemployed, I don't know what to do career wise. I'm thinking of going to everest college for the electrician trade. It's a 9 month course, And cost 15k.
> 
> Can u guys tell me how much I might start making after getting my certificate? What's an average salary for an electrician? What time do you guys usually start work and what time does it end? Do you like being an electrician? Is it a difficult trade to learn? I'll appreciate if u can give me some info in this trade I know so little about. Thanx


 I would look around 15 k is a little steep ..You could check out 1 800- 657-pipe , this will connect you to the pipe fitters , H.V.A.C , welders , h.v.a.c techs union , they are taking applications ...I . b .e.w local 11 are taking applications also , this is a construction electrician union ..H.V.A.C IS MORE FUN THAN BEING A SPARKY,i do both ............
I agree with the rest relative to the fly by night everest school that flat could not careless about you and your goals it is all about lining the school pockets , with fly by night instructors to boot ? I once had foreman with an electronics background teach @ I T T , he was some what of a loser .........


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

In line with Marc's post, many of these schools hit the GI Bill and the government sponsored low income students, at the tax payers expense.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

brian john said:


> In line with Marc's post, many of these schools hit the GI Bill and the government sponsored low income students, at teh tax payers expense.


I actually think that's a major part of their business model. I suspect that if anyone actually plunks down their own money, that's the exception.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Best part about it is the fast track to going into business for yourself and electricity is still a scary thing for many folks -- as it should be.

I don't know about that school and really, there is so much technique involved, I'm not sure much beyond the fundamentals can be taught.

Another thing, if you stay in pretty good health, you can still do electric when you get pretty old.

All that said, it can be boring and frustrating, but what job isn't? Also, a good knowledge of how buildings are constructed is a big help.


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## walter86 (Feb 28, 2009)

Hey brian john, about that comment "...paying for training is a waste" some of us wannabe union electricians have no choice but to pay for college if we are not selected as apprentices immediately, in order to help our chances for the next interview. I had to pay for the first quarter of tuition at Bates Technical College in Tacoma, WA, but after the first quarter after doing some research I had found a way for my program to be funded through Worksource Pierce. BTW, both of my instructors have a combined 35 or more years experience as union electricians. I also gained 6 months of commercial exp. with EB Electric and 10 months of res. exp. with Hymer Electric while attending Bates. I'll be receiving my 2-yr degree on the 13th of next month and I have an interview on the 9th of next month. I will be granted 2,000 hours from the union for completing school and 4,000 hours on my electrical trainee card (half way there!). If an individual decides to go to trade school, yea it's unorthodox, but with these trying economic times and a large pool of eligible candidates at electrical unions everywhere an applicant must do whatever they can to start their career soon as possible.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Walter what you are doing and what was posted are two different things.

Many want to be apprentices attend a REAL college. I would bet if you told the local union JATC about the institution listed by the OP they would shake their heads and suggest a better alternative like the local community college A LOT CHEAPER, with real professors.

I feel for the average in the field electrician, 90% of what they learn is on the job. The schooling gives a basis and keeps young men busy when they are not on the job.


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## tim123 (Feb 15, 2009)

I am currently going to school and although I'm not union my smaller shop pays the majority of the cost for classes... assuming I get good grades, I still pay for the books. I think by the time I'm done it will be about 6k for 8 semesters/4 years 18 weeks per semester. They seem to be very code heavy, and also hit the theory side pretty good with hands on stuff thrown in on some stuff such as relays, pipe bending, making a 3way work, some very simple motor controls... more stuff I'm sure that I just haven't gotten to yet... however a lot of the stuff I learn hasn't helped me while working because your boss wants you to be able to install X amount of fixtures and X amount of pipe and rough X amount of walls in so many hours. These type of things are taught in the field. I agree 15k is BS


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## walter86 (Feb 28, 2009)

Many want to be electricians do attend so called "real" colleges, however your facts are inaccurate on judging my instructors credentials. Having academic degrees and having vested their retirement with the IBEW, as soon as you receive that status then you can come back and judge. Also, I was presented with the rare cirumstance where I was attending a community college, but with no money to pay for college and the recommendation by the union to attend Bates Technical College for their Electrical Construction Program and funding available to pay for my program after the first quarter I had no choice. In conclusion, I did the next best thing to earn my hours toward the 8,000 hours required by the state to receive my 01 journeymans card, that was to attend trade school with no other option left. I agree with tim123 that his boss never let him use electrical theory and techniques with 3-way, motor control, and pipe bending because he isn't at that point to performing any of that work. But that never stopped me in the past from stepping in and performing these type of tasks in front of my boss. BTW brian john why are you still blogging on this website if you have passed the test and had the interview and are already in the union. As much as see you on this website I'm beginning to think that your steering these potential apprentices in the wrong direction with your input.


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## walter86 (Feb 28, 2009)

I meant "As much as I see you..."


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

walter86 said:


> I meant "As much as I see you..."


You can see me? You must have one of those magic mirrors.


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## walter86 (Feb 28, 2009)

correction: as much as I see you sitting in your pajamas and taking in unemployment benefits


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

walter86 said:


> correction: as much as I see you sitting in your pajamas and taking in unemployment benefits


:laughing: You'll be very interested to know that Brian John, among many others, are successful business owners.


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## walter86 (Feb 28, 2009)

...god i must kill myself now because I could have been a potential jprospect. I went to Bates with a couple of business owners and yes both of them using their GI bill toward a school that has been around longer than most community colleges in my area.


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Where in cali are you? In the bay area? dont waste your time with everest, apply for one of the locals(6,332,595...) and try to get some experience in an open shop or supply house as you wait, work is slow but its out there if your willing to put in the effort. If you want to work in open shop, look for a shop that will send you to the ABC school while training you on the job. You should not have to pay for training here, but some of the areas in the central valley may be different.
To answer your questions:
Local 332 starts at 21+/- hr, 100K a year as an inside JW, 7-3:30, I love being an electrician, it can be very difficult at times.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

walter86 said:


> ...god i must kill myself now because I could have been a potential prospect. I went to Bates with a couple of business owners and yes both of them using their GI bill toward a school that has been around longer than most community colleges in my area.


 
Walter, I still stand by my statement regarding this "college" I have dealt with many want to be electricians and what they learned in these diploma mills was not mind damaging but did them NOTHING for their future career.

Why do you think these type of schools advertise heavily during the prime viewing hours of 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM? During good times and bad times.

While schooling is important, I have said this before, you can be a top electrician without any schooling, you'll never be a top electrician with only schooling.

Many (most) of the electricians I deal with finished an approved apprenticeship program and after 2-3 years most cannot tell you the primary and secondary amperage of a 75 kva transformer when it is written on the nameplate.


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## walter86 (Feb 28, 2009)

I think your going off topic now, on some tangent. But about schooling doing nothing for their career that is not accurate. It depends on the individual. The union gives you advanced standing for completing the electrical construction program at Bates. In fact, the current training director for the apprenticeship used to be an instructor for the program at Bates. As far as it being a Everest College or Diploma mill that is inaccurate as well. It is accredited just as much as another community college, some programs transfer to the university of washington. Do a little research before you try to back your side of the argument it will make you sound a little more intelligent (no matter what type of background you come from).


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> The male exotic dancer thing never really worked out.


Thats a scary thought.:laughing::laughing:


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## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

brian john said:


> Walter, I still stand by my statement regarding this "college" I have dealt with many want to be electricians and what they learned in these diploma mills was not mind damaging but did them NOTHING for their future career.
> 
> Why do you think these type of schools advertise heavily during the prime viewing hours of 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM? During good times and bad times.
> 
> ...


Off the top of my head, the primary is 92(I think) and the secondary is 208


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## LatinAce (Mar 21, 2009)

RUSSIAN said:


> Where in cali are you? In the bay area? dont waste your time with everest, apply for one of the locals(6,332,595...) and try to get some experience in an open shop or supply house as you wait, work is slow but its out there if your willing to put in the effort. If you want to work in open shop, look for a shop that will send you to the ABC school while training you on the job. You should not have to pay for training here, but some of the areas in the central valley may be different.
> To answer your questions:
> Local 332 starts at 21+/- hr, 100K a year as an inside JW, 7-3:30, I love being an electrician, it can be very difficult at times.


Thanks for all the info guys, 

I live in the Inland Empire, next to Orange County. 7am - 3:30pm is a perfect time. I was getting up at 3:30am 6 days a week for 4 years, it was horrible getting up that early. I would only get 4 to 6 hrs of sleep.

Their is local near by that can train me for free but they require a diploma or GED, and I have neither, even though I am working on getting my GED. The 
thing is I want to get started on the electrician trade now. Specially now that 
I'm receiving unemployment benefits. I don't want to waste anymore time. What I like about Everest college is that u don't need a diploma or GED to get started, and it's also hands on training. But it does hurt when they want to slap you with a 15k bill


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I never said schooling would do nothing for you, I said YOU WILL NEVER GET TO BE AN ELECTRICIAN with only school, but you can be an electrician with out one bit of schooling. 

Yeah Walter your not even in the apprenticeship program and you know soooo much more. My 38 years of treating apprentice with the best of care training them and steering in the right direction means nothing to the wealth of knowledge Bates has handed you. 

Sorry I bow to you superior intellect. Spend you money as apprentices get into the program and get PAID to be apprentices as you sit in Bates spending you money. GOOD LUCK


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

brian john said:


> I never said schooling would do nothing for you, I said YOU WILL NEVER GET TO BE AN ELECTRICIAN with only school, but you can be an electrician with out one bit of schooling.
> 
> Yeah Walter your not even in the apprenticeship program and you know soooo much more. My 38 years of treating apprentice with the best of care training them and steering in the right direction means nothing to the wealth of knowledge Bates has handed you.
> 
> Sorry I bow to you superior intellect. Spend you money as apprentices get into the program and get PAID to be apprentices as you sit in Bates spending you money. GOOD LUCK



Brian is totally right. To let you on a tiny secret; I have never had any schooling as far as becoming an electrician. Its all self taught code and hands on with other electricians.

You cant get field knowledge from ANY textbook.

~Matt


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I have no formal training though I have taken many courses in my years I also taught school for 5 years (I actually love teaching).

You will not damage your self with education I am all for education, I have 2 kids in college at present and one in grad school with one to go.

My point in this is $15,000.00 is a lot of money to spend for something that is OFFERED FREE and comes with paid OJT. 

My expierence with the graduates from these schools (I KNOW NOTHING OF BATES) is the guys struggled as apprentices, they were not shining stars as one might think.


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## Coop (Mar 22, 2009)

I would get my GED and join the apprenticeship. 
There is a big difference between becoming a union and non union electrician. The union apprentiship will find work for you if there is any in the area and hook you up for an employer in need of apprentices. I dont know what California's rates are but here in west michigan first years start at about ten and a half dollars an hour and over the course of five years move up to around twenty seven an hour. I love the work. I get to travel all over the west coast of the state. I do all kinds of work from pulling romex in resedences, pulling mc in buisnesses and pulling three conductor five hundreds in factories. Its a work hard play hard kind of deal, you sweat and bleed and build and tone your body for a good paycheck. I would reccomend it to anyone who is dependable, responsable and hard working.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Coop said:


> I. I love the work. I get to travel all over the west coast of the state. I do all kinds of work from pulling romex in resedences, pulling mc in buisnesses and pulling three conductor five hundreds in factories. Its a work hard play hard kind of deal, you sweat and bleed and build and tone your body for a good paycheck. I would reccomend it to anyone who is dependable, responsable and hard working.


And that sums it up pretty good


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## jobtriopres (Mar 26, 2009)

It is often overlooked as a trade, but if you've got some mechanical experience (in addition to the electrical license you are going to acquire), I'd really recommend going into the Control Systems industry. I was a project manager, and we paid our lead installers around $32/hour (non-union). 

I know it is a steeper learning curve, but the pay is great and it will give you all sorts of options for the future (green building, facilities manager, field technician, etc). Anyways, just do a search for "Audio, Video and Networking" contractors in your area here to see what sort of employers are in your area (I'm assuming you like where you live : ) )

Let me know if you want any more info on entering into Controls.

Josh


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

LatinAce said:


> Their is local near by that can train me for free but they require a diploma or GED, and I have neither, even though I am working on getting my GED. The
> thing is I want to get started on the electrician trade now. Specially now that
> I'm receiving unemployment benefits. I don't want to waste anymore time. What I like about Everest college is that u don't need a diploma or GED to get started, and it's also hands on training. But it does hurt when they want to slap you with a 15k bill


let's talk real here. you *really* want to be a sparky? it is going to require
some training. it is going to require some schooling. you want to go to a 
pay per view school, for $15k, but you won't get a GED?

now you've done it. you've clogged my bull**** filter. sorry, but that dog won't
hunt.

some of the people posting here, offering you advice, are very very smart.
smarter than the rubber chicken instructor at the "skim the GI bill college"

let's look at what you bring to the table. a pulse, and you promise to show
up in the morning. that's nice. but right now, i personally know about 2
dozen electricians, with over 10 years experience, who can't find a job,
anywhere. you can't swing a dead cat without hitting three of them.
if i had to man a 20 man job in the morning, i could do it just off my 
own personal contacts. all qualified people, with over a decade's worth
of experience each.

it is best to enter a field of work when there is actually some work needing
doing. that isn't exactly what you have here. i've been doing this 32 years,
and this is the worst time i've ever seen for staying busy.

right now, if you honestly want to do this, go get the GED. then go to
riverside or san bernadino, and see about their apprenticeship. at least then
you'll have someone being an advocate for you, and trying to keep you
employed.

with your plan, you'll spend $15k, and have absolutely zero chance of 
staying employed... zero.

you really want to learn being an electrician? here you go.... give me the
$15,000, and i will give it back to you at 15 dollars an hour, for 1000
hours of on the job training. as it's your money, you won't even have to pay
tax on it...

at the end of that time, you'll know enough code, ac theory, and formal
knowledge that you will easily be able to pass the state license, except for
one thing.... it requires a completed 5 year apprenticeship, or equivalent.
and you'll have the necessary hand skills to know your way around the
trade, most likely.

except i would not spend the time working with someone who won't even
bother to finish high school......... neither would anyone else.

in all fields of employment, there are buckets of people with 4 year degrees
who can't find a job to save their life, at the current time. 

time to finish school.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

fulthotl, you a hard ass s.o.b. !!! AND 100% correct!!!! yeah kid, get the g.e.d.


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## walter86 (Feb 28, 2009)

I agree with FulThrotl, this is one h** of a time to find employment. Get the g.e.d. and then think about the apprenticeship.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Yeah I would not want to be entering the job market for the first time or changing careers at this time.


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## NarfRA (Jul 1, 2009)

Hey BrianJohn and company, I am new to thread, I was wondering if I should consider an opportunity as an Wireman apprentice with Puget Sound Energy (headquartered in Bellevue, WA) or Inside Wireman with Puget Sound Electrical JATC. The wireman position with PSE would be constructing substations from the ground up and toying with primary and secondary transformer type of work, on the flip side, the inside wireman pos. would be your typical commercial and industrial electrical type of work. I have gained 4000 hrs. towards my 01 license (applied to PSEJATC)in the state of wash., and with Puget Sound Energy I would not be able to utilize the hours gained (but more consistent work) because they have their own certificates. If offered a position from either organization, what would you pick? I like both opportunities just as equally, I have worked in both industries.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

brian john said:


> Yeah I would not want to be entering the job market for he first time or changing careers at this time.


 
You should of started off with this statement. I agree with most of what you pointed out on paying for something that you can get for free.Over the years I have not seen any outstanding grads form theses so called
certificate programs. And h*ll yea thats alot of money to pay for 9 months training. It's gotta include meals:laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

NarfRA said:


> Hey BrianJohn and company, I am new to thread, I was wondering if I should consider an opportunity as an Wireman apprentice with Puget Sound Energy (headquartered in Bellevue, WA) or Inside Wireman with Puget Sound Electrical JATC. The wireman position with PSE would be constructing substations from the ground up and toying with primary and secondary transformer type of work, on the flip side, the inside wireman pos. would be your typical commercial and industrial electrical type of work. I have gained 4000 hrs. towards my 01 license (applied to PSEJATC)in the state of wash., and with Puget Sound Energy I would not be able to utilize the hours gained (but more consistent work) because they have their own certificates. If offered a position from either organization, what would you pick? I like both opportunities just as equally, I have worked in both industries.


I have done both and FOR ME I prefer the inside wireman route. Substation construction is almost always outside cold, hot. wet. dry and every so often a nice day. In side wireman you'll get a mix of weather plus lots of inside work. In addition in my experience the sub station construction is basic assembly line work. Much more variety as an inside wireman.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

acmax said:


> Over the years I have not seen any outstanding grads form theses so called certificate programs.


It's "from," not "form." It's also "these," not "theses."


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Peter D said:


> It's "from," not "form." It's also "these," not "theses."


This is getting Old*e*.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> This is getting Old*e*.


I gess. Maybee Eye"ll stopp korrekting Speling,


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Only one r in korecting.:jester:


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## NarfRA (Jul 1, 2009)

I agree with you BrianJohn, inside wireman work is a little bit more diversified. But Puget Sound Energy is a lot more stable work in these trying times, hence the number of people through this website complaining about being unemployed since february. One thing I noticed, the interview committee members with Puget Sound Energy impressed me more than the JATC committee members in Seattle, the way they seemed interested in me about my desire to gain training with them.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

NarfRA said:


> I agree with you BrianJohn, inside wireman work is a little bit more diversified. But Puget Sound Energy is a lot more stable work in these trying times, hence the number of people through this website complaining about being unemployed since february. One thing I noticed, the interview committee members with Puget Sound Energy impressed me more than the JATC committee members in Seattle, the way they seemed interested in me about my desire to gain training with them.


Whatever you decide, you won't be working for the interview committees. If I were entering the field today, I'd choose a utility. Right now all the "trade schools" and "certificate programs" are running hot and heavy, cashing in on the high unemployment numbers.


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## NarfRA (Jul 1, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Whatever you decide, you won't be working for the interview committees. If I were entering the field today, I'd choose a utility. Right now all the "trade schools" and "certificate programs" are running hot and heavy, cashing in on the high unemployment numbers.


Actually, I would be working for one of the interview committee members. Each one of them is in charge of their own department with Puget Sound Energy (e.g. meterman, wireman, hydroelectric, hyrdromechanic, and combustion turbine). What do you mean "trade schools" and "certificate programs" and how does that not affect both the Puget Sound Energy apprenticeship and Seattle electrical JATC.


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## NarfRA (Jul 1, 2009)

...and high on unemployment


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## petek57 (Mar 3, 2009)

*It's all in how you approach it*

If someone goes into an apprenticeship or trade school with a burning desire to learn the trade they will do well. However, if someone is participating because they have nothing better to do, they will disappoint themselves and alot of other people.

15K is alot to pay for a training course.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

here in tx the starting wage is pretty low,7 -8 per hr.a wiremans lisc. can get you maybe 10.00 and a journeymans 12-14 and that would be for your ability. to be a foreman maybe 18. in my opinion the field isnt a very good one. when they allowed anyone who could get their hours signed off on and got their journeyman card,,,our market became flooded with people. in 97 i started at 10 then got 12 within that year. now its just over croweded,,sayn that i always stick to the motto that those who can master their chosen field will always do well. we do completely custom homes with theaters in them ,,lutron panels for lighting so we stay busy and i enjoy it even though the money isnt that great...someone once said find a job you love and youll never work a day in your life.


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