# Combination switch/receptacle



## subelect (Nov 25, 2007)

I was replacing some outlets in a rental property today. In the bathroom, the light switch had a combo switch/outlet (non-GFCI, of course) on one yoke. The switch controlled the bar light and the tenant had removed one light bulb was replaced with an 2 prong outlet-adapter.

The switch was on its last legs, so I was removing it, trying to decide if their would be enough room between the studs to install a 2 gang box (one switch, one GFCI), when I find out the single gang box had only one hot wire and one switch leg. No neutral.

The tenant informs me that when the switch was on, he would plug in the the outlet-adapter for his power. When the switch was off, the combo outlet below the switch was used for his power. He was plugging his razor in series with the 4 light bulbs and I guess that it was sufficient to power up his stuff. 

I replaced his broken switch with a single pole decora switch and told him the right thing to do was install a separate ckt. for a GFCI outlet, not use the combo like he had been doing.

Whether the land-lord calls us back to do it right, I don't know. The breaker box has one spare ckt left, but it is one of those Pop-O-Matic style, I am not sure if I can track down a new ckt. breaker or not.

My question is this, besides not being GFCI in a bathroom, what section of the NEC says that you can't use the combo switch/outlet like the tenant was doing? Is there anything in the book that says you can't put 2 loads in series?

Thanks,
Rick


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

subelect said:


> I was replacing some outlets in a rental property today. In the bathroom, the light switch had a combo switch/outlet (non-GFCI, of course) on one yoke. The switch controlled the bar light and the tenant had removed one light bulb was replaced with an 2 prong outlet-adapter.
> 
> The switch was on its last legs, so I was removing it, trying to decide if their would be enough room between the studs to install a 2 gang box (one switch, one GFCI), when I find out the single gang box had only one hot wire and one switch leg. No neutral.
> 
> ...


Whatever a Pop-O-Matic breaker is. Does Ron Popeil or Billy Mays sell them? :laughing:

As for series loads, that would be good ol' 110-3(B). If you install a combo device, you'll run afoul of 210.4(B).


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

subelect said:


> My question is this, besides not being GFCI in a bathroom, what section of the NEC says that you can't use the combo switch/outlet like the tenant was doing?


None. 
Why didn't you just replace it with a sw/GFI combo? That would have been legal and WAY safer than forcing him to use the adapter again.



subelect said:


> Is there anything in the book that says you can't put 2 loads in series?


Why would you think there was? Isn't this something we do all the time? 
How about a fan/light? Multiple recessed or fixtures? 


WHY are you asking the tenant anything??? You were not working for him, were you?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I assume by "series" you mean off the same switch. Right?

Series is a bad word to use in cases like this BTW.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> I assume by "series" you mean off the same switch. Right?
> 
> Series is a bad word to use in cases like this BTW.


I don't think so. I think he really means in series.



subelect said:


> .....The tenant informs me that when the switch was on, he would plug in the the outlet-adapter for his power. When the switch was off, the combo outlet below the switch was used for his power. *He was plugging his razor in series with the 4 light bulbs and I guess that it was sufficient to power up his stuff*......


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## subelect (Nov 25, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> I assume by "series" you mean off the same switch. Right?
> 
> Series is a bad word to use in cases like this BTW.


Pete,
I am not sure how else to describe "series". When he plugs in to the outlet, the power will run thru whatever he plugs in , then thru the light bulbs to the neutral. The 2 loads will be in series.

Fans and lights off one switch are a series-parallel ckt.

Putting in a combo light switch/GFCI (do they even sell such things on one yoke?) would be tough to do without a neutral in the box. No access above or below the bathroom to fish one in without ripping open the wall. 

When the tenant is the landlord's son, I am pretty confident he will talk to his mother about not having an outlet in the bathroom. Whether she will spend any more money to do it correctly is between them. I make sure anything that I work on is up to Code and strongly recommend getting the rest of the place in compliance, but we can't work for free. 

Thanks for your input,
Rick


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Well at least they didn't use the ground as a neutral.
The contractor that built the houses in my area, (mine included) did not put an outlet in the garage.
All those that complained about it got the contractor to come back and add one.
How ever being that there was no neutral in the switch box they just tied the outlet neutral to the box ground.. 
Was like that for 35 yrs. until I came along and changed it.
I assume there are still dozens around that still have the old one.

BTW That was done in 1957.

My Garage now has a 4" sq box with double outlets on two circuits fed with 12/3 BX on a two pole breaker.

No gfi though... me bad..


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Im going to rip out a pop-o-matic panel next week.... going to put a square d in its place... Pics will be arriving when it happens.

~Matt


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Im going to rip out a pop-o-matic panel next week....
> 
> ~Matt



Hang onto the breakers.. they are real hard to find.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

subelect said:


> Pete,
> I am not sure how else to describe "series". When he plugs in to the outlet, the power will run thru whatever he plugs in , then thru the light bulbs to the neutral. The 2 loads will be in series.


Wow. You really do mean series. 
Why would anyone wire anything in series in AC building wiring. 
No, this is not correct and should NOT be duplicated.





subelect said:


> Putting in a combo light switch/GFCI (do they even sell such things on one yoke?) would be tough to do without a neutral in the box. No access above or below the bathroom to fish one in without ripping open the wall.


Sorry. I read too fast and did not see the no neutral part. My fault. :blush:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

It's funny,,,I had the exact same situation last week. A customer was using hers the same way,,,,no neutral in the box, just one 14/2 used as switch loop. I removed single gang box, ran new 20 amp circuit and installed a new switch/GFI


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Whatever a Pop-O-Matic breaker is. Does Ron Popeil or Billy Mays sell them? :laughing:


I assume the pop a matic are the old ite push-a- matic breakers.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I assume the pop a matic are the old ite push-a- matic breakers.


That's what I was guessing.:001_huh:


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I assume the pop a matic are the old ite push-a- matic breakers.


I agree, that would be my guess as well.

Chris


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Good old bull dogs


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## guschash (Jul 8, 2007)

Nothing wrong with push-a-matics. Harder to find but my supply house carries them. I am trying to figure this out. Are you saying he plugs in a adapter at the switch/rec. and uses the receptacle for his shaver. What am I missing? Where is he getting the neutral for his shaver. I know I am missing something what is it.

gus


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

the rec at the sw doesnt hav a neutrl, it is basically wired like a switch. it picks its neutrl up after the load of the bulbs.i ran into the same problem recently withe 2 lights in series. owner said he couldnt put more than 30watt bulbs or it wouldnt work.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

thats goofy:hammer:


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