# What did they do before tape?



## Abcanfield (Jan 15, 2011)

1934 commercial installation. What did they do before tape? Answer: They did it RIGHT!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Abcanfield said:


> 1934 commercial installation. What did they do before tape? Answer: They did it RIGHT!


Cable lacing was kind of an art and I enjoyed it. I just did it in the airplane industry. Yeah...oh the days with wax cord.


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## Abcanfield (Jan 15, 2011)

It is really inspiring to come across good workmanship. Although, the last electrician obviously wasn't to inspired to continue with the same quality.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Abcanfield said:


> 1934 commercial installation. What did they do before tape? Answer: They did it RIGHT!


That wax string comes in handy and they still sell it...:thumbup:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

It would just about kill me to have to cut out some of that laced cable in old control panels.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I love the workmanship, but it sucks to repair: All the wires are the same color, none of them are labeled, and when you have to trace them the wire you want is laced every 3" with a million others.

Figuring out controls in that crap is a nightmare.

-John


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## Abcanfield (Jan 15, 2011)

backstay said:


> It would just about kill me to have to cut out some of that laced cable in old control panels.


Yep. It was tough, but had to re-feed for floor renovation from 100A to 125A . I do plan to clean up the most recent mess. I might even try my hand at some cable lacing. Here are some more pics.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Big John said:


> I love the workmanship, but it sucks to repair: All the wires are the same color, none of them are labeled, and when you have to trace them the wire you want is laced every 3" with a million others.
> 
> Figuring out controls in that crap is a nightmare.
> 
> -John


I am not quite sure why that matters. It's just extra time, isn't it?


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## Abcanfield (Jan 15, 2011)

Big John said:


> I love the workmanship, but it sucks to repair: All the wires are the same color, none of them are labeled, and when you have to trace them the wire you want is laced every 3" with a million others.
> 
> Figuring out controls in that crap is a nightmare.
> 
> -John


With all due respect, which side of this panel would you rather have to trace out a wire?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Abcanfield said:


> With all due respect, which side of this panel would you rather have to trace out a wire?


Respect, or not, point well taken.


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2007)

When I was in the Navy all of our panels were laced. I loved it because it looked so nice. Any repairs made or circuits added, we had to re-lace the panels. A fun task in 10-15' seas. I would love to lace a panel now but there is never enough time so here come the zip ties.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Not to take anything from the work on the right but that mess on the left could have been much neater even without the laceing.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Lacing still is used, a few years ago I had to lace DC power cables at an internet site. I learn to lace years ago while in the Air Force.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Looks nice, I enjoy doing that these days. 
It's all 1/2 hitches. 
The only bad part is cutting a section of the old lace out of the middle.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I am not quite sure why that matters. It's just extra time, isn't it?


In my case the repairs are to fix unplanned outages, where it's my job to get things back online as fast as possible. Then I start wishing they'd spent much more time labeling and much less time lacing. 

It's neat that folks took pride in their work, sucks that many don't now, but that stuff is still a bear to work on.

-John


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

I have a bunch of pics of more vintage gear from the Avalon Theatre on Catalina Island...it's in the Casino building (The round building on the water's edge as seen on many T.V. shows. 

I'll start a thread with them soon.


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## volleyball (Sep 14, 2011)

I still have my old roll of waxed lace from my NAVY days. Glad there are zip ties. That laces is still very grippy.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

I had to do cable lacing with some cellular work. 

I loved it


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Isnt it still a practice to lace service and feeder conductors in panels on high current loads to reduce the magnetic kick of turning on a huge load?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Isnt it still a practice to lace service and feeder conductors in panels on high current loads to reduce the magnetic kick of turning on a huge load?


Yes, in some cases the gear manufacturer will require it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Yes, in some cases the gear manufacturer will require it.


BBQ.. this reminds me.. what ever happened with the switch gear handle that broke off and you had vise-grips as a temp??


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> BBQ.. this reminds me.. what ever happened with the switch gear handle that broke off and you had vise-grips as a temp??


LOL, I was slow to look into it but I just got a price back of $700.

I have to see if they are selling me the handle or the whole switch.


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## cguillas (Jun 25, 2009)

Would love someone to teach me how to cable lace. I wish the union would do one day "lost skills" workshops. I would sign up for every single one.


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

I'll bet the poor old sap who had to lace all that cable back in 1934 would much rather have saved a bunch of time and used colored tape and zip ties if they had been invented already. :laughing:


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## cguillas (Jun 25, 2009)

No doubt! No doubt at all that plastics were a huge deal- I don't think I would ever use the skill necessarily; I'd like to learn to do it just to have some appreciation for what is involved.


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## Wireman191 (Aug 28, 2011)

Was this used for neatness, or was there a specific reason? I ask because in CT cans the unfused conductors must be wrapped in rope in case of a ground fault, It looks to me like these wires are not protected by a OCPD.


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## joethemechanic (Sep 21, 2011)

Big John said:


> I love the workmanship, but it sucks to repair: All the wires are the same color, none of them are labeled, and when you have to trace them the wire you want is laced every 3" with a million others.
> 
> Figuring out controls in that crap is a nightmare.
> 
> -John


I was thinking the same thing. Try following a wire in a control that is all laced up like that. You end up cutting all that pretty lacing and putting it back with zip ties


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

cguillas said:


> No doubt! No doubt at all that plastics were a huge deal- I don't think I would ever use the skill necessarily; I'd like to learn to do it just to have some appreciation for what is involved.


It's mostly running 1/2 hitches or double 1/2 hitches.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> That wax string comes in handy and they still sell it...:thumbup:


The guy who invented it is getting rich selling "FLOSS".


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Abcanfield said:


> 1934 commercial installation. What did they do before tape? Answer: They did it RIGHT!



1930
Richard Drew, a young 3M engineer, invents Scotch® Cellulose Tape. Later to be renamed Cellophane Tape, it is an attractive, moisture-proof way for grocers and bakers to seal packages. The tape helps people “make do” during the Great Depression—they made simple repairs to household items.


Cable ties were first invented by Thomas & Betts, an electrical company, in 1958 under the brand name Ty-Rap initially designed for airplane wire harnesses. The original design used a metal ratchet instead of nylon. They later changed to the nylon/plastic design.[2]


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

we recently installed switchgear and square D recommending lashing the conductors with rope that fed the main breaker. 1600 amp 480v 3 phase


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

electricalperson said:


> we recently installed switchgear and square D recommending lashing the conductors with rope that fed the main breaker. 1600 amp 480v 3 phase


Do you recall the AIC rating on the breaker?

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> Do you recall the AIC rating on the breaker?



I bet more than 65K


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> we recently installed switchgear and square D recommending lashing the conductors with rope that fed the main breaker. 1600 amp 480v 3 phase


Did they give an explanation for the lashing?


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Big John said:


> ... All the wires are the same color, none of them are labeled ...
> -John


Sometimes I think that should be a code requirement...it would weed out those who have no idea what they are doing


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Sometimes I think that should be a code requirement...it would weed out those who have no idea what they are doing


 :laughing: Well, there have been a couple times that it's almost weeded _me_ out, so I've got mixed feelings there.


RIVETER said:


> Did they give an explanation for the lashing?


 If there was a very high available fault current, then during a fault there would be a lot of lateral force on the conductors; the lashing would just keep them from jumping around.

-John


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