# Wall inspection



## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> I am a resi guy. This is the first commercial job I have done as a JW.
> 
> Inspection was to be between 9-11am this morning but inspector never showed.
> 
> ...


Save the bat wings for the next job....:whistling2:










:laughing:


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I absolutely hate the drive by inspection. I paid my permit fee and in that I paid for the inspection. Get the [email protected] outta your truck and do your damned job.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Rollie73 said:


> I absolutely hate the drive by inspection. I paid my permit fee and in that I paid for the inspection. Get the [email protected] outta your truck and do your damned job.


I have never had this happen before. I wish he would have shown up in the time frame while GC was waiting. This particular commercial warehouse is accessible from the side street. Now the plumbing inspector had no issue finding it.:001_huh:


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I hope you get the same guy for the rest of your inspections on this building......it will suck if some hard-ass shows up and decides to pick apart the work


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## dthurmond (Feb 7, 2011)

I had 22 kw generator and transfer switch before Christmas that needed inspected . I called in and they told me they had not had a inspector since march . They released it to power company and said they would come by next week to check it out . I would put money that it never got looked at .


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## 51360 (Jun 9, 2014)

Rollie73 said:


> I absolutely hate the drive by inspection. I paid my permit fee and in that I paid for the inspection. Get the [email protected] outta your truck and do your damned job.


Happens often in my neck of the woods! 

Borgi


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

The only thing I was worried about failing for was the fact I did not wire and receptacles for the restroom counter top. They showed on the prints but we decided not to wire them since I did not bid for them.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

aftershockews said:


> They showed on the prints but we decided not to wire them since I did not bid for them.




So you win the bid by $37 (cause you forgot half the stuff you were supposed to bid). Then you don't do the job as per plan cause you didn't include that part of the plan? 

^^ WTF? 

What if it was a light and switch you missed... a bathroom with a fan only?

This can't be true.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

aftershockews said:


> The only thing I was worried about failing for was the fact I did not wire and receptacles for the restroom counter top. They showed on the prints but we decided not to wire them since I did not bid for them.


Wow. That's crazy


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

daveEM said:


> So you win the bid by $37 (cause you forgot half the stuff you were supposed to bid). Then you don't do the job as per plan cause you didn't include that part of the plan?
> 
> ^^ WTF?
> 
> ...


Umm, no . There were no receptacles on the original prints I bid off of. Jump to conclusions much?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

aftershockews said:


> Umm, no . There were no receptacles on the original prints I bid off of. Jump to conclusions much?


To be fair you didn't mention there were two sets of prints. You just said this:



> They showed on the prints but we decided not to wire them since I did not bid for them.



What is a wall inspection?


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## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> Umm, no . There were no receptacles on the original prints I bid off of. Jump to conclusions much?


So you decided not to do it? Turn in a change order. The customer wants it, and you want more money, right?


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

OaklandElec said:


> So you decided not to do it? Turn in a change order. The customer wants it, and you want more money, right?


In commercial/industrial there is bid price and her is extras price... extras price is much better. make all you can selling extras and be sure to document them as they are given.


I apprenticed for a company that did strictly grocery store remodels. They bid every job at break even or even a little under. They made all their money on the scrap and the extras ... they made a LOT of money that way.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

It's true

to add to that, one starts to love incompetent archy's .....:whistling2:

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Rollie73 said:


> I absolutely hate the drive by inspection. I paid my permit fee and in that I paid for the inspection. Get the [email protected] outta your truck and do your damned job.


And once they do enter the job, an obvious violation has been laid out for them to write up...~CS~


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

In other than dwellings a bath outlet is not a code requirement. If one is installed it has to be gfi protected.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

I had a relative get a new roof, inspector passed the dry in on Friday, it rained on Saturday. The rain got in thru the "dried" in roof. They went to the city on Monday to complain about it passing inspection and the inspector told them "I don't go on roofs". What the????


Sent from my house using 2 cans and a string!


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

A Little Short said:


> To be fair you didn't mention there were two sets of prints. You just said this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are correct. I did leave that out.

On commercial work like this one, I get a wall inspection so the GC can insulate and rock it, then they can put the grid in for the troffers.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> In other than dwellings a bath outlet is not a code requirement. If one is installed it has to be gfi protected.


That is what I brought up to the GC when he sent me the revised prints. He said we will not be putting those in.

Now, since these were the prints that had to go through code enforcement to be approved, the AHJ can technically require me to wire them in.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I also have a question about independent support of the troffers. Never had to do this before and I do not want to overkill on it.

Any pics anyone has that shows how they did this?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You have to independently support the troffers. What we do is get the same wire that the ceiling guys use and spray some orange paint on it to identify it as not part of the grid. We then tie up opposite corners. I believe some areas may want all 4 corners but it sounds like this guy is not even going to look--- too bad.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> I also have a question about independent support of the troffers. Never had to do this before and I do not want to overkill on it.
> 
> Any pics anyone has that shows how they did this?



No pics, I use the ceiling guys wires if only a few.

Hook the wires to your lights like the ceiling is done.

Tie to structure -drop to lights(usually a hole in the end somewhere)- stick wire thru hole- twist wire.

Wires dont need to be straight or tight.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

five.five-six said:


> In commercial/industrial there is bid price and her is extras price... extras price is much better. make all you can selling extras and be sure to document them as they are given.





chicken steve said:


> It's true
> 
> to add to that, one starts to love incompetent archy's .....:whistling2:
> 
> ~CS~


I love the incompetent architect/engineer/designer. I just finished up a _"small_*" *renovation on a gas station/convenience store that had absolutely horrible drawings and the existing site conditions weren't properly investigated before the drawings (aka....suggestions) were released for bidding. 
The original bid was around 18k and the extras came to just over 27k.:thumbsup:

The establishment owners (national chain) told me that this is the norm for their old buildings. They allow 3 times the bid amounts for their actual construction budgets. If it comes in under that they figure it was a good job.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

You _dawg_ Rollie :thumbsup: That's a_ perfect_ example of what i meant, thx! ~C_(hound it out & woof it down)_S~


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You have to independently support the troffers. What we do is get the same wire that the ceiling guys use and spray some orange paint on it to identify it as not part of the grid. We then tie up opposite corners. I believe some areas may want all 4 corners but it sounds like this guy is not even going to look--- too bad.



I have been doing 4 pins, 4 wires for years now. It's not that much time or materials but I'm never called on it either.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Jack chain accepted?


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## nbb (Jul 12, 2014)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You have to independently support the troffers. What we do is get the same wire that the ceiling guys use and spray some orange paint on it to identify it as not part of the grid. We then tie up opposite corners. I believe some areas may want all 4 corners but it sounds like this guy is not even going to look--- too bad.


Same here, except that we flag the wire with a piece of red electrical tape. I'll bring up the idea of paint, seems like it might be a bit extra prep, but also more visible.

Do you screw the troffers to the mains or tees? We usually do, less on tees because it can suck them out of square pretty easy with an impact, and panhead.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Jack chain accepted?



It is where I live.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> Jack chain accepted?



Have done this on the few jobs, and the engineers have been fine with it.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Once again this is a warehouse. The ceilings are about 25-30' up. Now the "framer" did drop some hanger wires down for the ceiling grid, but also installed 2 6" construction beams. << Don't know the correct lingo for this.

Now, if I just use these beams, my wire or chain will be running caddywampus. I am thinking I will need to run uni strut across the top of these so as to position my supports in a correct manner. Does this make sense? That is why i requested pictures.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Once again this is a warehouse. The ceilings are about 25-30' up. Now the "framer" did drop some hanger wires down for the ceiling grid, but also installed 2 6" construction beams. << Don't know the correct lingo for this.
> 
> Now, if I just use these beams, my wire or chain will be running caddywampus. I am thinking I will need to run uni strut across the top of these so as to position my supports in a correct manner. Does this make sense? That is why i requested pictures.


 I would use the beams


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> I am thinking I will need to run uni strut across the top That is why i requested pictures.



You could use a piece of emt instead of Unistrut.

Cheaper.


I can take a couple pics tomorrow if thats not too late.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Awg-Dawg said:


> You could use a piece of emt instead of Unistrut.
> 
> Cheaper.
> 
> ...


I am not due back till mid next week. Pics would be great. Thanx.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Once again this is a warehouse. The ceilings are about 25-30' up. Now the "framer" did drop some hanger wires down for the ceiling grid, ......


This is where I go up to the "framer" and ask, where are my fixture hanger wires? 

The best deal for me has always been to get up with the ceiling grid guy and ask him if he will drop some wires for my use on the fixtures for independent supports. Most of the time we can work a deal, even if it's only him giving me some wire, but a case of beer sometimes works great. They are putting up the grid and wires and it takes them just about zero extra time to drop some additional wires.

With your high above ceiling space, it might not work too well. One thing for sure, if you have to put these supports in, make sure you do it before the grid gets installed.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Now, if I just use these beams, my wire or chain will be running caddywampus. I am thinking I will need to run uni strut across the top of these so as to position my supports in a correct manner. Does this make sense? That is why i requested pictures.


How many light fixtures are you installing? If you start hanging strut to avoid "caddywampus" chain/wire, it might get a bit costly. What does the estimate have for this part of the work?


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Hang the supports off the beams they don't have to be strait. Support your MC off your own ceiling wires for the fixtures. We also paint ours as stated above.

We have paid the ceiling guy to hang our wires on tall ceilings in the past. We also own a pole extension that fits a cordless drill and extends about 20'. It spins the eye bolt in then you use it for the wire also. Works great and is a huge time saver.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

You are required to complete the work in the prints you bid, anything else is an extra. Even deletions are an extra and should have a charge associated with them.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Someone tell me what the article is that requires independent supports for lay in fixtures...please


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Pleeeease


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Someone tell me what the article is that requires independent supports for lay in fixtures...please





ponyboy said:


> Pleeeease


It's one of those "read between the lines codes"

But I think these articles apply.

300.11
410.36


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I believe it is in the building code as well, not sure though.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> I believe it is in the building code as well, not sure though.


Looks like you will be the business owner posting at this time of the morning.....:laughing:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> I believe it is in the building code as well, not sure though.


Around here it is the building code. An inspector once told me it's there to help protect fire fighters in case they are ripping down the ceiling to chase a fire the fixtures won't come down with the ceiling grid.


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

pretty sure that was tongue in cheek or there about - blah


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)




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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Awg-Dawg said:


> View attachment 44721


So it does not to be straight up tied off? Just tied off in a matter that would keep it from falling to the floor?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> So it does not to be straight up tied off? Just tied off in a matter that would keep it from falling to the floor?


Correct.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Not sure how this translates to your rules to the south, but here in BC we call the independent support you are talking about "seismic", and the idea (as I understand it) is that in an earthquake the fixtures won't come tumbling out of the ceiling. For us it is mandated by BC building code (not electrical) and the rules iirc are: ceilings under 8' 6" require four points of support, ceilings 8' 6" and higher require two points, kitty corner. You are allowed to drop two wires from one ceiling pin. We usually use 1/16" aircraft cable and aluminum crimps. They want us to install them as close to 45 degrees as possible, but they're not too sticky about that in my experience.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> So it does not to be straight up tied off? Just tied off in a matter that would keep it from falling to the floor?


I never worry about them being straight.

If I remember the wording it says that the wires just have to be identified different than the ones for the grid.

Mine are easy because it looks like a third grader did it.


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## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

five.five-six said:


> Even deletions are an extra and should have a charge associated with them.


Explain? I like the sound of that.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

We use the Caddy speed links. They are pricey. The owners are well aware of the cost. I guess they figure they are worth it, and you make up for it on time. Also they are identified because the ceiling is being held up with wire and the fixtures are held up with cable.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I should have mentioned we only use 1 per fixture. If you order them long enough they go down to one corner, over the fixture to the other corner, and back up a few feet to the link. We use them on the exit light boxes also. 

They also make "y's" and ones that catch all four corners also. We usually never use them though.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

OaklandElec said:


> Explain? I like the sound of that.



From what I was told you only credit the labor and material. Not the mark up and profit.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

OaklandElec said:


> Explain? I like the sound of that.


You have a contract. That contract is an asset with value. 

Not to mention planning and materials purchased and labor provided in pursuit of satisfying that contract. Deletions are an extra.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

five.five-six said:


> You have a contract. That contract is an asset with value.
> 
> Not to mention planning and materials purchased and labor provided in pursuit of satisfying that contract. Deletions are an extra.


Are you saying that you have success in charging the customer more money to delete work from a contract? It sounds like that is what you are saying.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> Someone tell me what the article is that requires independent supports for lay in fixtures...please


410.36

(B) Suspended Ceilings. Framing me mbers of suspended ceiling systems used to support luminaires shall be securely fastened to each other and shall be securely attached to the building structure at appropriate intervals. Luminaires shall be securely fastened to the ceiling framing member by mechanical means
such as bolts, screws, or rivets. Listed clips identified for use with the type of ceiling framing member(s) and luminaire(s) shall also be permitted.


Here's the thing - some jurisdictions adhere to this and some jurisdictions do not want the lights screwed to the grid. The jurisdiction I work for wants #12 steel hanger wire on opposite corners for all 2x4 & 2x2. 1 #12 for a recessed light, exit light boxes, receptacle boxes, and fire alarm boxes.
A jurisdiction over ( and in another state) requires the crews to the grid.

I strongly urge you to check with the inspector


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

We put hurricane clips on it and call it good. I've never been asked to do anything more


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> We put hurricane clips on it and call it good. I've never been asked to do anything more


I guess you've not worked in NC.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

My ceiling inspection is called in for tomorrow. Worked hard today to get this ready.
I hope this passes. I need a helper.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

aftershockews said:


> My ceiling inspection is called in for tomorrow. Worked hard today to get this ready.
> I hope this passes. I need a helper.


Got that inspection and got my final today.:thumbup: I was not there for the final but it was the same inspector.

I am glad I got this job out of the way.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> Got that inspection and got my final today.:thumbup: I was not there for the final but it was the same inspector.
> 
> I am glad I got this job out of the way.


Congrats! Ready to leave resi behind?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Congrats! Ready to leave resi behind?


If all I did was commercial then yes, it is better. But our money is in old work resi.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

I have a few loose ends in resi and one commercial job that I am trying to finish up all the while new calls keep coming in. This is why I have no time for a vacation.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> I have a few loose ends in resi and one commercial job that I am trying to finish up all the while new calls keep coming in. This is why I have no time for a vacation.


I think they call those good problems, 

Good for you.


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