# exterior light -sqaure base, round box



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MattM-NC said:


> I have a customer who wants me to put up an exterior dusk to dawn light over one of her basement doors. I'm running UF to it, along the brick surface, from a nearby exterior outlet.
> 
> The problem is the base of the light is rectangular, and I can't find any exterior mounting boxes that aren't round.
> 
> ...


Matt, you are a carpenter, you just haven't finished your training yet. Make three rectangles, the first one two inches bigger than the fixture footprint. Make the second one one inch larger than the fixture footprint. Make the last one 1/4'' larger than the fixture footprint . Use finish nails- 6d to secure each one largest first, to smallest one last. Take a hole saw the same size as a cut in fixture box and knock out the center of the staged backbox. Hang the light fixture over that. Make the customer bring in a painter damn it, your a Carpenter not a painter....................:thumbsup:


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Like this only for flat surface. This is for siding.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Try an Arlington 8161TR for flat surfaces and skip the bell box.


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks for your tips, everyone. I purchased one of those Arlington boxes, but it didn't work with this fixture. Instead of building a staged backbox I ended up routing out a tiny bit of the mortar between the bricks and that was enough space to get the UF behind the light and allow the light to go flush up against the wall. The mounting bracket went straight onto the brick with some anchors, and I bored out some holes for the screws for the adjustable lock nuts. Sealed it with some silicon. It actually looks pretty good and customer is happy. 

Not technically to code, skipping the box, but I'm not worried about not using a box because it's all brick.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

"Not technically to code, skipping the box"

You sound like me


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Well thank heaven you're not worried. :no:


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

Do you have a pic of this? I don't understand what this fixture looks like and how it mounts. And I'm curious now!


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

B-Nabs said:


> Well thank heaven you're not worried. :no:


While I hardly advocate non-compliance with the code, I do trust my critical thinking skills, and allow myself some real world flexibility. But then again, I did vote for Hillary.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Did you run UF exposed on the brick?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MattM-NC said:


> *While I hardly advocate non-compliance with the code, I do trust my critical thinking skills, and allow myself some real world flexibility. *But then again, I did vote for Hillary.


Really?? You just posted that you do on a forum on the WWW. From what I read it sounds like a complete scab job. I bet you didn't give a severe discount for bargain basement quality work. 

So I take it this was a side job?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MattM-NC said:


> Thanks for your tips, everyone. I purchased one of those Arlington boxes, but it didn't work with this fixture. Instead of building a staged backbox I ended up routing out a tiny bit of the mortar between the bricks and that was enough space to get the UF behind the light and allow the light to go flush up against the wall. The mounting bracket went straight onto the brick with some anchors, and I bored out some holes for the screws for the adjustable lock nuts. Sealed it with some silicon. It actually looks pretty good and customer is happy.
> 
> Not technically to code, skipping the box, but I'm not worried about not using a box because it's all brick.



Fine with me, I do that all the time for tile walls. Nothing there to catch fire so to hell with the NEC.


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

AK_sparky said:


> Do you have a pic of this? I don't understand what this fixture looks like and how it mounts. And I'm curious now!


It's a normal fixture, rectangular base, with a normal circular mounting bracket. Bracket is mounted directly on the brick wall, base pulls flush to the wall as designed. The UF, which runs on the surface of the brick, sneaks in nicely to base by lying in the groove of the mortar between the bricks. I dug out that groove some so it would fit just right. 

I don't plan on going by there again. But if i do I'll take a picture and let ya'll tear it apart.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

This is one of those jobs where I like to get paid in advance.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> This is one of those jobs where I like to get paid in advance.


Then run like hell before anyone catches your license plate?:whistling2:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Did you run UF exposed on the brick?


That would be more code compliant than any other part of his installation.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MattM-NC said:


> It's a normal fixture, rectangular base, with a normal circular mounting bracket. Bracket is mounted directly on the brick wall, base pulls flush to the wall as designed. The UF, which runs on the surface of the brick, sneaks in nicely to base by lying in the groove of the mortar between the bricks. I dug out that groove some so it would fit just right.
> 
> I don't plan on going by there again. But if i do I'll take a picture and let ya'll tear it apart.


This is absolutely unbelievable. 
Any one of mys did something like this, mainly the xposed UF they would be looking for a new employer. Hell my inspector would laugh at me every time he saw me for 5 years.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> This is absolutely unbelievable.
> Any one of mys did something like this, *mainly the xposed UF* they would be looking for a new employer. Hell my inspector would laugh at me every time he saw me for 5 years.


What's wrong with exposed UF? As long as it isn't subject to physical damage it's ok. I know it might not look great, but we are talking code.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

But you are ok with SE cable also.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Then run like hell before anyone catches your license plate?:whistling2:


If you put grease on your license plate it catches dirt and exhaust smoke. A guy I know told me that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> But you are ok with SE cable also.


Code allows it.

Do you have amendments to the NEC or do you just listen to inspectors when they pull things out of their asses?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I mean, I damn sure wouldn't be proud of the install, but it sounds like the customer wanted bargain basement prices, so they're getting a Wal-Mart discount-bin product.

Got four things on the checklist:
Is it safe?
Does it work?
Is it code compliant?
Is the customer happy?

Whether the inspector laughs ain't a concern.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I might have fabbed something up with Azek and a pancake with a void big enough to get the wire into if I couldn't make it work with that Arlington box. The exposed UF is fine. No better or worse that SE. Not pretty, but legal.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> If you put grease on your license plate it catches dirt and exhaust smoke. A guy I know told me that.


He was obviously from Jersey!


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Big John said:


> I mean, I damn sure wouldn't be proud of the install, but it sounds like the customer wanted bargain basement prices, so they're getting a Wal-Mart discount-bin product.
> 
> Got four things on the checklist:
> Is it safe?
> ...


How do you know that the customer wanted a **** job? They probably just don't know any better. Is it safe? You don't think that canopy is going to cut into the wire? Deep down do you really think this install is right?


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

sbrn33 said:


> This is absolutely unbelievable.
> Any one of mys did something like this, mainly the xposed UF they would be looking for a new employer. Hell my inspector would laugh at me every time he saw me for 5 years.


You might try these, they are a wider fit and much less likely to get so wadded up.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Wow, Sabrina got burned bad. I almost want to look away, but I can't.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> How do you know that the customer wanted a **** job? They probably just don't know any better.


 I don't know it. But the customer has eyes, if they don't like what OP installs he'll have trouble getting paid and they ain't gonna use him again.


> Is it safe? You don't think that canopy is going to cut into the wire? Deep down do you really think this install is right?


 Sounds like he's standing the light off the wall, hence the need for a backer block, so it wouldn't be crushing a wire. Without pictures I don't see the hazard or the violation.

I've seen exterior lights run with UF before. It's not classy, but it ain't dangerous.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

John, it is a code violation because there is no box. He ran the UF cable thru a mortar joint that he chipped out. He anchored the strap to the brick.

The UF cable is code compliant but not the part about not using a box.

Dangerous? No.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> How do you know that the customer wanted a **** job? They probably just don't know any better. Is it safe? You don't think that canopy is going to cut into the wire? *Deep down do you really think this install is right?*


Nope I don't and God forbid by some 1 in 100million chance it energizes the wet brick face during a heavy rain somebody gets nailed by it.

Not like UF and the canopy aren't going to move at different rates from temperature expansion and contraction.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Wow, Sabrina got burned bad. I almost want to look away, but I can't.


*Implied burn or not he is correct.*


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Big John said:


> I don't know it. But the customer has eyes, if they don't like what OP installs he'll have trouble getting paid and they ain't gonna use him again. Sounds like he's standing the light off the wall, hence the need for a backer block, so it wouldn't be crushing a wire. Without pictures I don't see the hazard or the violation.
> 
> I've seen exterior lights run with UF before. It's not classy, but it ain't dangerous.


*He didn't use a backer block.*

Originally Posted by MattM-NC 

Thanks for your tips, everyone. I purchased one of those Arlington boxes, but it didn't work with this fixture. I ended up routing out a tiny bit of the mortar between the bricks and that was enough space to get the UF behind the light and allow the light to go flush up against the wall. 

The mounting bracket went straight onto the brick with some anchors, and I bored out some holes for the screws for the adjustable lock nuts. Sealed it with some silicon. It actually looks pretty good and customer is happy. 

Not technically to code, skipping the box, but I'm not worried about not using a box because it's all brick.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have to ask the guys have been doing this longer than I, but was no box on exterior fixtures ever legal, because I've seen it a bunch.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Ah, I missed the part that he ultimately didn't use a box. I agree, that's gets out of cheapskate into hack territory.

But let's flip this: Say he set a pancake like he was supposed to and chipped enough morter to bring the UF into a connector.

Suddenly that's a completely code compliant install. Would y'all still be crapping on it?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I have to ask the guys have been doing this longer than I, but was no box on exterior fixtures ever legal, because I've seen it a bunch.


Nope, it's just easier. And it's the only way for handimen to do it since they don't have the knowledge to think of chipping out for a pancake box, etc.

Now that Arlington Siding Blocks are available at every Home Depot, there is no reason to do it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Big John said:


> Ah, I missed the part that he ultimately didn't use a box. I agree, that's gets out of cheapskate into hack territory.
> 
> But let's flip this: Say he set a pancake like he was supposed to and chipped enough morter to bring the UF into a connector.
> 
> Suddenly that's a completely code compliant install. *Would y'all still be crapping on it?*


UF mounted on brick isn't pretty but if it flies with the ADJ, with a box then nope no complaints.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

nrp3 said:


> I have to ask the guys have been doing this longer than I, but was no box on exterior fixtures ever legal, because I've seen it a bunch.


If the fixture has an approved wiring cavity, you're good to go. Think wall pack.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I was talking the typical resi wall sconce. Wall packs absolutely.



I use the Arlington ones from HD and the extensions for larger wall lights too, but those are made for siding like we have up north. Do they sell the flat surface ones at HD down south?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> I was talking the typical resi wall sconce. Wall packs absolutely.
> 
> 
> 
> I use the Arlington ones from HD and the extensions for larger wall lights too, but those are made for siding like we have up north. Do they sell the flat surface ones at HD down south?


Sure do, just not as large a selection with flat backs.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MattM-NC said:


> You might try these, they are a wider fit and much less likely to get so wadded up.


You don't have your license yet but you have a customer. You hack the job up and then you post this to an experienced, legitimate contractor. What's up with that?

You're 32 years old but it seems to me you're still the one in diapers.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I was talking the typical resi wall sconce. Wall packs absolutely.
> 
> 
> 
> I use the Arlington ones from HD and the extensions for larger wall lights too, but those are made for siding like we have up north. Do they sell the flat surface ones at HD down south?


They make the typical octagon shaped siding block with a flat back.

Then this mega cover can fit over it:









I know it shows a siding block in the picture, but it fits over the flat back one too. I just used one this week.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I know they make, what, six flavors of the octagon? Thank you Arlington.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Yup, plus the type that Mech posted on the first page that is made to bring pipe into it. It's made for cameras but it works well with outdoor lights when you are installing something like a RAB motion that doesn't have a round base.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Yup, plus the type that Mech posted on the first page that is made to bring pipe into it. It's made for cameras but it works well with outdoor lights when you are installing something like a RAB motion that doesn't have a round base.


I posted that one thinking the OP might catch a clue to run pvc into the side as opposed to surface UF.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I posted that one thinking the OP might catch a clue to run pvc into the side as opposed to surface UF.


Yeah, I don't have any pics, but that's exactly what I do when I have to surface mount a light.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, I don't have any pics, but that's exactly what I do when I have to surface mount a light.


I bet it looks 1000x better than this:


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Are rectangular WP boxes that difficult to source?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Are rectangular WP boxes that difficult to source?


You need to read the OP description before commenting an irrelevant answer.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MattM-NC said:


> You might try these, they are a wider fit and much less likely to get so wadded up.


That is a nice picture. Quality work stays in business for more than 23 years. When you do half assed **** how long do you think you will make it?
Honestly If I were you I would be damn embarrassed for doing a half assed job. 
I am guessing deep down you know better but the $$ got in your way. 
Some people are just better off working for someone else and having them tell them the right way to do any certain job.


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

MattM-NC said:


> Not technically to code, skipping the box, but I'm not worried about not using a box because it's all brick.


Well.......the base of the fixture is _sort of _a box. It fits the requirements.
It encloses the connections and is accessible. What more could you ask for?


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## MattM-NC (Dec 11, 2016)

whoaaaa. The fact that I skipped an element of the code for this particular light has somehow made me an exploitative hack in some of your eyes. I'm not sure why. Maybe it was the panties post that got you all so worked up. I'll try and mind my manners on here going forward. You are, as 99cents said, decades ahead of me in this industry. Please keep in mind that my work does pass inspection on a regular basis.

"Deep down" I'm perfectly comfortable with the work I did. The assertion that I compromised safety and exploited a customer to make a bunch of money is insane and hilarious. I charged her $75 for 2.5 hours of work. And it looks great, and it's safe. And she's a friend who lives two blocks away. 

Customer and I discussed all the options before hand and she was clear that she didn't care if there was visible UF running along the wall, she just wanted a light over her basement door in whatever way was easier and cheaper. So I ran some UF out of a nearby outlet instead of getting wire from inside the house through the brick, which would have been much more time consuming given its location. 

This is just a back basement door, and there's already ground wires and cables and other stuff on the wall. I took my time and made it look neat. By far the most symmetrical and solid thing on that wall. She was delighted to see the light and was surprised I only asked for 75.

I didn't want to chisel out the brick and put in a pancake box because I think that it would have run the risk of creating cracks in the surrounding brick and mortar, and it wouldn't have added any level of real safety. There are other things I could have done, but I think the way I did it is solid and safe, and efficient to the customers liking. As it is, the wire is snugly in place entering the back of the light in a reamed out mortar groove with a strap on it, as good as a romex connector. A splice is secure in a 3/4" depth of space between the light and BRICK. You are all totally right that I could have found a way to put up a box for that light. I don't deny that. I made a call to do it the way I did, and feel comfortable with it. 

Someone on here made the point that I can't know how materials are going to expand and contract over time and different conditions, that's why even though it looks good now, it might not in a few years, and that's why we should use UL approved connections. I think that's a great point, the kind of thoughtful point I come on here to glean from you all. 

I think I'm done talking on this particular thread. I appreciate folks holding me to a higher standard, and giving advice.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Missouri Bound said:


> Well.......the base of the fixture is _sort of _a box. It fits the requirements.
> It encloses the connections and is accessible. What more could you ask for?


It doesn't enclose the connections, that's why it's not compliant.


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

HackWork said:


> It doesn't enclose the connections, that's why it's not compliant.


Enclose? Are you suggesting that because the connections are between metal and brick they aren't enclosed? How is that different than a plastic or metal box with cover over it? Either way it's the fixture that encapsulates the connection. The brick happens to be the cover in this instance.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

MattM-NC said:


> The fact that I skipped an element of the code for this particular light has somehow made me an exploitative hack in some of your eyes. I'm not sure why....


I'll stand by what I said, both in your defense and with the "hack" comment:

There's only so much you can leave out. This was already a bare-minimum code install and then you did even less.

Gets hard to defend a job as professional when you're intentionally omitting all the stuff that makes it professional.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

While not exactly meeting code, it does provide the full benefit of having a fireproof surface in place of the box. This install just doesn't sit square with a bunch of old CMP members who fart a lot and sit around a table pretending to be electricians.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I think I'd feel a little better about it if he had put a bead of silicone on the top and sides where the light meets the brick, at least to prevent the ingress of moisture. In the end, though, if you come on here and tell us about something that belongs on the Gems thread, expect to get a bit of a thrashing.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Missouri Bound said:


> Well.......the base of the fixture is _sort of _a box. It fits the requirements.
> It encloses the connections and is accessible. What more could you ask for?


You have to be joking! Try that with an inspector.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

So the customer didn't want a different fixture? Too bad.

You could have easily solved the problem with a fixture that fits on a Rab cast box. Done. Code compliant.

The customer does not decide, the code book decides. If you are to learn anything from this experience it's saying no to a customer.

Time to get out of the diapers and put on some work pants.

Now you have to go back and do it right. Right?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Missouri Bound said:


> Enclose? Are you suggesting that because the connections are between metal and brick they aren't enclosed? How is that different than a plastic or metal box with cover over it? Either way it's the fixture that encapsulates the connection. The brick happens to be the cover in this instance.


I am not suggesting, I am stated a simple fact that the NEC doesn't consider that wiring compartment to be enclosed, and that it is a non-compliant installation.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> Gets hard to defend a job as professional when you're intentionally omitting all the stuff that makes it professional.


He is not a professional or anywhere near it. He is a working electrician doing sidework for less than painters work for.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I gave him a lot of stuff but mine was more of a workmanship issue. We have all scabbed something in before when we knew better. 

On a different note my town required a permit to rewire a replacement furnace. Something the furnace guys would be qualified to do in most cases. 
They do not require a permit to replace the fixtures after a siding job. This is where the siding guys move the wire and screw the fixtures on with drywall screws. Never a box. 
Never has made sense to me.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

You'll get this from time to time, like 99cents says, who's in charge? If it's not something I'm comfortable with, get someone else. It's my license not yours. When something happens and you've done something not kosher to please them, it isn't going to hold water when you are standing in front of the board. That customer will be the first to throw you under the bus when something goes wrong. I didn't know will come out of their mouth. The members of the commitee are going to look at you and say you're the licensed one, you know better.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> He is not a professional or anywhere near it. He is a working electrician doing sidework for less than painters work for.


This is a prime example of why so many licensed EC flip out about guys doing side work. If one was to follow up on a side job that wa sup to code and done in a standard manner they wouldn't question the installer, but a job like this that screams 'trunk slammer' loud and clear just adds fuel to the fire.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> This is a prime example of why so many licensed EC flip out about guys doing side work. If one was to follow up on a side job that wa sup to code and done in a standard manner they wouldn't question the installer, but a job like this that screams 'trunk slammer' loud and clear just adds fuel to the fire.


The thing I hate about this type of work is that I get myself caught up in it.

In a few years the homeowner wants a new light and they call me in to switch it out, easy job. But when I pull the light off I find no box, so now I have to explain to the customer that the job price is going to double because I have to install a box, and they aren't happy. Now I am stuck explaining how the other guy did it wrong, but the customer is always cynical and assuming that I am just trying to raise the price. "It's worked fine all this time" 

ETA: I forgot to mention that crap like this is why it's become standard practice for me to add on the addendum "As long as there is a box above the light" whenever I give a price for changing any type of light.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> The thing I hate about this type of work is that I get myself caught up in it.
> 
> In a few years the homeowner wants a new light and they call me in to switch it out, easy job. But when I pull the light off I find no box, so now I have to explain to the customer that the job price is going to double because I have to install a box, and they aren't happy. Now I am stuck explaining how the other guy did it wrong, but the customer is always cynical and assuming that I am just trying to raise the price. "It's worked fine all this time"
> 
> ETA: I forgot to mention that crap like this is why it's become standard practice for me to add on the addendum "As long as there is a box above the light" whenever I give a price for changing any type of light.



That was my whole point, when you come in behind a butcher you often get blood on your hands. 

"It's worked fine all this time" I absolutely hate hearing that!


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Haxer, I feel like you were fine with the whole thing until he gave his price...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Haxer, I feel like you were fine with the whole thing until he gave his price...


Tell me more about what I was thinking.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

hackwork said:


> tell me more about what i was thinking.


$225-$260


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The other day I got a call to drive up a nice super steep street to the very top to look at a hot tub install for a dentist who just bought one and needs it wired in.

He has a full panel, no twin breakers allowed, no place left outside at the meter/main disconnect area to mount a sub panel due to the 3 Sunny Boy pv inverters and associated gutter boxes and crap for the pv system taking up all the space. The run from a new sub panel, I would have to install, located underneath his existing sub panel with all the house circuits flush in the garage wall will have to go either surface across two rooms (two story house , slab on grade and panel is inside landlocked on ground floor) or I will have to remove around 30 feet of sheetrock to drill out the joists to run the wiring and conceal it all. Then it has to poke out to the exterior and run another 50 foot to get around the backside of the second floor stucko exterior walls on the second floor to get to the patio area where he wants to sit the tub. And........ he wants the outdoor hot tub to sit on an already in place concrete patio slab (no equal potential grid in place). I sent him a proposal for the sum of $1,800.00 dollars plus tax and got the email response of he was shocked at the high price and he would not be using me. 

I am so glad. I HATE that steep hillside.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> The other day I got a call to drive up a nice super steep street to the very top to look at a hot tub install for a dentist who just bought one and needs it wired in.
> 
> He has a full panel, no twin breakers allowed, no place left outside at the meter/main disconnect area to mount a sub panel due to the 3 Sunny Boy pv inverters and associated gutter boxes and crap for the pv system taking up all the space. The run from a new sub panel, I would have to install, located underneath his existing sub panel with all the house circuits flush in the garage wall will have to go either surface across two rooms (two story house , slab on grade and panel is inside landlocked on ground floor) or I will have to remove around 30 feet of sheetrock to drill out the joists to run the wiring and conceal it all. Then it has to poke out to the exterior and run another 50 foot to get around the backside of the second floor stucko exterior walls on the second floor to get to the patio area where he wants to sit the tub. And........ he wants the outdoor hot tub to sit on an already in place concrete patio slab (no equal potential grid in place). I sent him a proposal for the sum of $1,800.00 dollars plus tax and got the email response of he was shocked at the high price and he would not be using me.
> 
> I am so glad. I HATE that steep hillside.


From the description that sounds reasonable. I'd have said $2,500 just in case you got it.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I would have thought more too. Ask him if he wants to barter. I'm good but don't have magic powers, sorry.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The thing I hate about this type of work is that I get myself caught up in it.
> 
> In a few years the homeowner wants a new light and they call me in to switch it out, easy job. But when I pull the light off I find no box, so now I have to explain to the customer that the job price is going to double because I have to install a box, and they aren't happy. Now I am stuck explaining how the other guy did it wrong, but the customer is always cynical and assuming that I am just trying to raise the price. "It's worked fine all this time"
> 
> ETA: I forgot to mention that crap like this is why it's become standard practice for me to add on the addendum "As long as there is a box above the light" whenever I give a price for changing any type of light.


We all get caught up in it. That's why we don't leave surprises for the next guy to fix like the OP did.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> The other day I got a call to drive up a nice super steep street to the very top to look at a hot tub install for a dentist who just bought one and needs it wired in.
> 
> He has a full panel, no twin breakers allowed, no place left outside at the meter/main disconnect area to mount a sub panel due to the 3 Sunny Boy pv inverters and associated gutter boxes and crap for the pv system taking up all the space. The run from a new sub panel, I would have to install, located underneath his existing sub panel with all the house circuits flush in the garage wall will have to go either surface across two rooms (two story house , slab on grade and panel is inside landlocked on ground floor) or I will have to remove around 30 feet of sheetrock to drill out the joists to run the wiring and conceal it all. Then it has to poke out to the exterior and run another 50 foot to get around the backside of the second floor stucko exterior walls on the second floor to get to the patio area where he wants to sit the tub. And........ he wants the outdoor hot tub to sit on an already in place concrete patio slab (no equal potential grid in place). I sent him a proposal for the sum of $1,800.00 dollars plus tax and got the email response of he was shocked at the high price and he would not be using me.
> 
> I am so glad. I HATE that steep hillside.


I would have just run UF on the outside of the home at waist level. Maybe then you could throw some stucco on top just to make it nice.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Do they make outdoor Wiremold? Oh yeah, it's called pipe.


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