# Metal halide/ sodium vapor



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

The lamp color output.And compare lumens.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

bobelectric said:


> The lamp color output.And compare lumens.


I agree, but I was wondering as to the functionality of the ballast and whether it would light the lamp regardless of the gas as long as the voltage was correct. Just to say that I've been told that it would not...and I don't believe that is correct.


----------



## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

RIVETER said:


> What is the difference between sodium and mercury as long as the voltage on the lamp is correct?


If I'm not mistaken as I don't deal with mercury vapor very often, but I don't think HPS ballasts will even fire MV lamps. I know metal halide will, but I don't think HPS and MV are interchangeable.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I am working on some more lighting on the perimeter of the plant. We have many fixtures...some possibly 15 years old and I am trying to repair them rather than replace. I have a lot of ballasts that say that they are for sodium vapor. What is the difference between sodium and mercury as long as the voltage on the lamp is correct?


Mercury vapor lamps, run on a ballast the is made for that type of lamp and you must match up the ANSI rating on the lamp with the ANSI rating on the ballast.

Metal halide lamps, lamps run on a ballast the is made for that type of lamp and you must match up the ANSI rating on the lamp with the ANSI rating on the ballast.


High pressure sodium, lamps run on a ballast the is made for that type of lamp and you must match up the ANSI rating on the lamp with the ANSI rating on the ballast.

If you need to change a ballast,,"*CHANGE IT AS A KIT"* ,Do not waste time with capacitors and starters .....................,"*CHANGE IT AS A KIT ONLY"*


Mach the lamps with the ballast ANSI rating


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Mercury vapor lamps, run on a ballast the is made for that type of lamp and you must match up the ANSI rating on the lamp with the ANSI rating on the ballast.
> 
> Metal halide lamps, lamps run on a ballast the is made for that type of lamp and you must match up the ANSI rating on the lamp with the ANSI rating on the ballast.
> 
> ...


 "As a kit" What does that entail?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

k_buz said:


> If I'm not mistaken as I don't deal with mercury vapor very often, but I don't think HPS ballasts will even fire MV lamps. I know metal halide will, but I don't think HPS and MV are interchangeable.



Non of those lamps are interchangeable.

They may light up for a while but they will have a very short life span.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> What is the difference between sodium and mercury as long as the voltage on the lamp is correct?


Mercury has an atomic weight of 200.59, while sodium has an atomic weight of 22.99.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> "As a kit" What does that entail?


You go to the supply house and you want a 250 watt metal halide ballast and a lamp to go with it.

The ballast's are sold as a kit with the capacitor and the igniter /starter included.

The lamp must match the ANSI rating on the ballast always check both.


A lot of guys make the mistake of changing a capacitor or a igniter thinking the ballast coil is fine and that just causes problems and wastes lots of time.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Mercury has an atomic weight of 200.59, while sodium has an atomic weight of 22.99.


13 ounces is less than a pound...what's your point?


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You go to the supply house and you want a 250 watt metal halide ballast and a lamp to go with it.
> 
> The ballast's are sold as a kit with the capacitor and the igniter /starter included.
> 
> ...


I typically change the cap and the ballast if the lamp will not light. What I am asking is,if a "SODIUM" ballast will work on a mercury lamp. Is that such a hard question?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I typically change the cap and the ballast if the lamp will not light. What I am asking is,if a "SODIUM" ballast will work on a mercury lamp. Is that such a hard question?



No it is not but if you cannot understand my post and it looks like you do not then let me put it this way.

IT will not work for long.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> No it is not but if you cannot understand my post and it looks like you do not then let me put it this way.
> 
> IT will not work for long.


Now we are getting somewhere. Why do you say that?


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> I typically change the cap and the ballast if the lamp will not light. What I am asking is,if a "SODIUM" ballast will work on a mercury lamp. Is that such a hard question?


No, because a ballast does just what its name suggests. It works to limit the current through a lamp. Even if the OCV is the same, one type of lamp will need a different current than the other, but each ballast is designed to allow a certain amount through. I don't know which has a greater current, MV or HPS, but one way you will smoke a lamp.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> No, because a ballast does just what its name suggests. It works to limit the current through a lamp. Even if the OCV is the same, one type of lamp will need a different current than the other, but each ballast is designed to allow a certain amount through. I don't know which has a greater current, MV or HPS, but one way you will smoke a lamp.


How does a transformer limit current?


----------



## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

Looking into my answer to the question I came across this. It may help you.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

k_buz said:


> Looking into my answer to the question I came across this. It may help you.


I am waiting for Inphase's answer.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> How does a transformer limit current?


By being wound and constructed for a certain amount of reactance. The capacitor adds to this. The cap not only helps start the lamp and correct the power factor, it adds reactance to the circuit as well.

HID lamps have a "negative resistance" which means they draw an ever increasing amount of current. If something didn't limit this, they would burn themselves out real quick. So each type of ballast has a specific amount of reactance that limits the current through a specific type of lamp. The wrong kind of lamp might allow too much current to flow because the ballast doesn't know any better. The lamp might light, but its life will be shortened.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I am working on some more lighting on the perimeter of the plant. We have many fixtures...some possibly 15 years old and I am trying to repair them rather than replace. I have a lot of ballasts that say that they are for sodium vapor. What is the difference between sodium and mercury as long as the voltage on the lamp is correct?


I will make a short et sweet answer the differnce between the HPS and MV is a complety different " world " and they are NOT interchangeable at all.

( see the rest of my comment below of K_Buz's statement ) 



k_buz said:


> If I'm not mistaken as I don't deal with mercury vapor very often, but I don't think HPS ballasts will even fire MV lamps. I know metal halide will, but I don't think HPS and MV are interchangeable.


I used to deal pretty often with old school MV ( In European side it is pretty much gone now ) and HPS ballast OCV ( open circuit voltage ) is typically too low ( On 55 volts bulbs but 100 volt bulb verison may but doubt it. ) to keep the MV lit up mais it may get the MH going in mild weather but cold weather .,, forget it. It will not lit up the MV OCV is not high engouh.

Most MV OCV typically hover around 250 volts unless larger than 400 watter then it will go up about 400 ish volts.

But with MV ballast I don't think you ever will find the replacement parts anymore so you have to go with MH ballast with matching ballast.

One warning here when you use the kit for MH there is two verison the probe start and pulse start. 

Watch the connection diagram carefull with it and also make sure the lamp socket can take up to 4 KV pulse start if you go with Pulse start verison.

And with the replacement ballast kit most will useally carry 4 differnt primary ( supply ) voltage setting aka multitap ballast but once a while you will snag 5 setting verison.

Hope that will help ya on this one.

Oh yeah Harry did cover that part good. Ditto with Inphase277

Merci,
Marc


----------



## dmxtothemax (Jun 15, 2010)

Yes there are differences in the ballasts for sodium vapour
as compared to metal halide !

If you use a metal halide ballast the lamp life will suffer !

metal halide ballasts are interchangable with mercury vapour,
but not sodium vapour !


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> Mercury has an atomic weight of 200.59, while sodium has an atomic weight of 22.99.


Man, thanks, I can't tell you the number of times knowing that on the job would have helped me. :laughing:


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> I typically change the cap and the ballast if the lamp will not light. What I am asking is,if a "SODIUM" ballast will work on a mercury lamp. Is that such a hard question?


You came here to ask the question and now you are busting balls because you can't understand the replies?:laughing:


Harry gave you rock solid advice, use the ANSI codes to see if the ballast in the fixture is rated to operate the lamps you have.

Check out this link .......

http://www.hawaiienergy.com/media/assets/Feb_01_10_ANSI.pdf


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> *you must match up the ANSI rating on the lamp with the ANSI rating on the ballast.*






HARRY304E said:


> * you must match up the ANSI rating on the lamp with the ANSI rating on the ballast.*





HARRY304E said:


> *Match the lamps with the ballast ANSI rating*





HARRY304E said:


> *The lamp must match the ANSI rating on the ballast always check both.*


To reiterate, check the ballast for the ANSI code number and make sure it matches the ANSI code on the replacement lamp.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Be smart. Change the fixtures. You are going to end up with a patched together system and constantly be screwing around, wasting time, ****ing with them.


----------



## Moonshot180 (Apr 1, 2012)

Just makes better sense anyways to change them out as a kit. The fixtures around our plant are HPS. Time is a precious commodity and changing out the entire kit ensures that it will stay functional for a long time.


----------

