# Carpenters question Service Cable



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

KGB said:


> Service cable enters basement from outside meter box w/ outside main switch .
> 
> How long is that cable allowed to be in basement before entering panel box ?
> Is there any code for this?


If you have it fused outside as long as you need.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

KGB said:


> Service cable enters basement from outside meter box w/ outside main switch .
> 
> How long is that cable allowed to be in basement before entering panel box ?
> Is there any code for this?





jwjrw said:


> If you have it fused outside as long as you need.


I agree. It is no longer a service cable, it is a feeder cable.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

You should hire an electrician.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> You should hire an electrician.


What he isnt an electrician?
And the carpenters should stay carpenters!:laughing:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Don't screw with the KGB.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Don't screw with the KGB.


 
Yea they might have some old poison umbrellas and come after you!:laughing:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The code is fairly vague on the exact distance, but it does make it clear that unfused service cable, indoors, needs to be very short. Every locality has different rules they've adopted as to how far, exactly, is "short". It generally varies between zero inches and 8 feet. Some bend these rules if you put the service conductors in RMC, etc. That said, you really need to consult a professional electrician in your area who is famaliar with exactly how the inspectors interpret this particular section of the code. The other respondants are correct, however, in that if you have an outdoor disconnect that has some sort of overcurrent protection, you can run that cable as far indoors as you need to.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

He could be Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (KGB) formally of the Green Bay Packers.:jester:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> The code is fairly vague on the exact distance, but it does make it clear that unfused service cable, indoors, needs to be very short. Every locality has different rules they've adopted as to how far, exactly, is "short". It generally varies between zero inches and 8 feet. Some bend these rules if you put the service conductors in RMC, etc. That said, you really need to consult a professional electrician in your area who is famaliar with exactly how the inspectors interpret this particular section of the code. The other respondants are correct, however, in that if you have an outdoor disconnect that has some sort of overcurrent protection, you can run that cable as far indoors as you need to.



I have always wondered about this too,here in Philadelphia 99% of residential services are done in that fashion,meter socket on the back of house s.e cable comes out the meter socket,through the wall and into the panel.All in all about 6-10' of unfused wire in the house.This is just about the rule with the rowhomes that are so common here.I wonder where the line is,once you decide it's too much and it's time to fuse the wires.I asked an inspector once and told me 8'.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> I have always wondered about this too,here in Philadelphia 99% of residential services are done in that fashion,meter socket on the back of house s.e cable comes out the meter socket,through the wall and into the panel.All in all about 6-10' of unfused wire in the house.This is just about the rule with the rowhomes that are so common here.I wonder where the line is,once you decide it's too much and it's time to fuse the wires.I asked an inspector once and told me 8'.


You know, when in Rome....

I guess as long as you don't do anything different than what the inspectors are used to seeing, you're probably okay. You have an advantage, in that you've seen hundreds or thousands in service entrances. 

My rule of thumb is, when in doubt, hang an outdoor disco. Of course, I'm also guilty of having run service conductors pretty far around the outside of the house before I ran poked through the wall to come indoors. Just depends on the situation and the budget.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> You know, when in Rome....
> 
> I guess as long as you don't do anything different than what the inspectors are used to seeing, you're probably okay. You have an advantage, in that you've seen hundreds or thousands in service entrances.
> 
> My rule of thumb is, when in doubt, hang an outdoor disco. Of course, I'm also guilty of having run service conductors pretty far around the outside of the house before I ran poked through the wall to come indoors. Just depends on the situation and the budget.



I have lived in these modest rowhomes my whole life,and you can walk out my driveway look down the way at the fifty or so houses on the block and everyone is done that way,some of these houses still have the original 60 amp services on them.These homes were built in the 40's and 50's.I haven't done very much resi work,so I always thought this was the norm,I didnt start seeing out door disconnects in Philly until they started putting brand new housing up in the city,wich doesn't happen very often.Hell I just put a new service on my house not to long ago and I did it the same way.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Residential here is twice the width of the service equipment. Commercial we can go 16ft unfused in my county.


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## KGB (Oct 23, 2007)

This is not some thing i am going to do it is some thing in a customers basement.
It leaves the outside switch comes in to a juntion box hidden over heater and leaves there w/ old cable and goes to first floor panel box.
I new as soon as i posted this you would be all over me for it .
I trying to see if there is a code rule for this due to a home inspection the customer had.
Length of cable about 10-12ft long .


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> Residential here is twice the width of the service equipment. Commercial we can go 16ft unfused in my county.


Seems reasonable. 

As long as the inspection authority can develop an actual hard and fast rule, I'm perfectly willing to comply.

When you work in the same general area you whole career, you just develop a sense of what's gonna fly and what ain't.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

KGB said:


> This is not some thing i am going to do it is some thing in a customers basement.
> It leaves the outside switch comes in to a juntion box hidden over heater and leaves there w/ old cable and goes to first floor panel box.
> I new as soon as i posted this you would be all over me for it .
> I trying to see if there is a code rule for this due to a home inspection the customer had.
> Length of cable about 10-12ft long .


Simple answer if its FUSED OUTSIDE you can go AS FAR AS YOU NEED.


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## KGB (Oct 23, 2007)

Well thank you ,I thought it had to go right to the panel box once it entered in to the basement.
This is why I ask the question because i did not know.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

KGB said:


> Well thank you ,I thought it had to go right to the panel box once it entered in to the basement.
> This is why I ask the question because i did not know.


 If you are talking about unfused cable from the meter can to the main disconnect, The code used to say twice the length or twice the width of the panel, Today is says the closest point. Most jurisdictions will allow about 5' based on the old code.It all depends on your circumstances and the inspectors interpitation. Ask your Inspector!


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Problem is the home owner is asking you the carpenter for a professional opinion on another trades work that you don't understand. 

The length of unfused service entrance conductor allowed varies by locality. That's your answer. So now you need to find out if you have local codes? The NEC says it needs to have a disconnect at it's nearest point of entry(look it up for exact verbage). The homeowner could call a eletrician, have them do a service call with the agreement that the electrician would write up a statement as to whether the service meets code.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> Problem is the home owner is asking you the carpenter for a professional opinion on another trades work that you don't understand.
> 
> The length of unfused service entrance conductor allowed varies by locality. That's your answer. So now you need to find out if you have local codes? The NEC says it needs to have a disconnect at it's nearest point of entry(look it up for exact verbage). The homeowner could call a eletrician, have them do a service call with the agreement that the electrician would write up a statement as to whether the service meets code.


I really didn't take it that he was planning on doing electrical work himself. There are many reasons why a carpenter would need to know this answer. Orienting a new house on a lot with respect to the pole or padmount location, and planning a remodel, chief among them.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Problem is the home owner is asking you the carpenter for a professional opinion on another trades work that you don't understand.
> 
> The length of unfused service entrance conductor allowed varies by locality. That's your answer. So now you need to find out if you have local codes? The NEC says it needs to have a disconnect at it's nearest point of entry(look it up for exact verbage). The homeowner could call a eletrician, have them do a service call with the agreement that the electrician would write up a statement as to whether the service meets code.


 
I think you missed that the op said it was switched "OUTSIDE" therefore
it can be as long as needed because it is a fused feeder not unfused service entrance.
But your right I said in my first post to tell the carpenter to stay a carpenter.:whistling2:


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I really didn't take it that he was planning on doing electrical work himself. There are many reasons why a carpenter would need to know this answer. Orienting a new house on a lot with respect to the pole or padmount location, and planning a remodel, chief among them.


I'm not dogging on him for being a carpenter wanting to learn something MD but if a customer asked me about load bearing walls and concrete work my answer would be less than a professional opinion. If he misses the disconnect then he might think the run is to long. I never have a problem trying to help the other trades but invariably the story changes when the info is passed from a pro to a "carpenter" to a customer.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I think you missed that the op said it was switched "OUTSIDE" therefore
> it can be as long as needed because it is a fused feeder not unfused service entrance.
> But your right I said in my first post to tell the carpenter to stay a carpenter.:whistling2:


Nah, I didn't miss that but when a carpenter uses the term switched I don't necesarily take that to mean disconnect. Could be he refers to the meter can as the switch.


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## KGB (Oct 23, 2007)

No it is a disconnect switch . I talked to inspector the way it is set up is allowed due to that there is a disconnect switch outside at meter then it leaves and goes to basment and then up to first floor to main panel box.
I just did not think that was alowed in a residental house .
Thanks for all the info
Thread closed


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

KGB said:


> No it is a disconnect switch . I talked to inspector the way it is set up is allowed due to that there is a disconnect switch outside at meter then it leaves and goes to basment and then up to first floor to main panel box.
> I just did not think that was alowed in a residental house .
> Thanks for all the info
> Thread closed


 
Just because you are KGB dosent give you the right to close the thread!:jester: Your welcome!:thumbup:


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## KGB (Oct 23, 2007)

Sorry did not mean to up set anyone I just meant I got my answer .
Thank you very much
Kevin


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

KGB said:


> Sorry did not mean to up set anyone I just meant I got my answer .
> Thank you very much
> Kevin


 
I was so just kidding. This place is for learning!:thumbup:


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## KGB (Oct 23, 2007)

Thanks that why I posted the question to learn .
30 years in the trade and never saw that before.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

Learned something today. I did a service on a house about 5 years ago. I had a pedastal with the meter socket/200 amp disconnect 200 feet from the house. Wire went 45 feet in the house to the first panel. I misunderstood the rule and mounted a disconnect as soon as it entered the house. Guess I was wrong, what say you?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

blueheels2 said:


> Learned something today. I did a service on a house about 5 years ago. I had a pedastal with the meter socket/200 amp disconnect 200 feet from the house. Wire went 45 feet in the house to the first panel. I misunderstood the rule and mounted a disconnect as soon as it entered the house. Guess I was wrong, what say you?


I would say you did the right thing because of 230.7(a)(1)


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

Is 230.7 a(1) a typo. I have a 230.7 exception 1 but I don't see how it applies.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

blueheels2 said:


> Is 230.7 a(1) a typo. I have a 230.7 exception 1 but I don't see how it applies.


 
I would think if the disconnect wasnt on the house it would be in violation of 230.7(a)(1)
The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location. I dont think 200 feet away is readily accessible. Thats why I said you did right by installing one on the house.


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