# do non union shops think their employees are ******** ? I was just lied to in a interview about PW rate for the area



## dg628 (Jan 9, 2020)

hey guys ,

I currently have a year in the trade and love it despite working rat but either way it won't be for much longer.

I took leave due to a car accident I was in and visited my sister up in Seattle. Definitely a beautiful city , I even had someone take me to the olympic peninsula in WA and my god ........


Anyway like any sensible young grasshopper, I turned in my documents for my application for Local 46 while I was there.

I currently work rat in San Diego and just had a zoom interview with a merit shop up in Seattle yesterday, a majority of their work is in the area or that whole corridor but their shop is located in snohomish.

We didn't talk pay directly because they want me to see what the WA L&I transfers and that will "determine"my pay but they said they pride themselves in paying union wages then said everyone starts at 18/$ hr .......

Thats a bold faced lie. If most of their work is in King County Washington then the prevailing wage for commercial work would be 26$/hr for a first year and thats last time I checked , Seattles collective agreement expired in march iirc so its probably more now .... I think they need to re-read that agreement........

The HR lady acted like she was familiar with my company and that she used to live in Escondido , I dont know if thats true or not but we're not a well known company like berg or helix unless youre actually in the trade down here.

The company despite their size just didn't seem authentic and trust worthy after that lie about the pay , do they think I make minimum wage in San Diego doing biotech labs, pharmaceutical , a little bit of industrial , etc as an apprentice and that im gonna move for such a low wage ?

It reminds me of my current company , you got guys here who are told ABC determines their pay lol. In the 4 year indentured Electrical Trainee program , ABC doesn't have **** to do with your pay because youre working through your employer not directly through abc as a contractor like in their 5 year program. Your company determines your pay.

We have a guy who's been here almost 20 years and did his schooling with my company, they won't make him a foreman because his Spanish isn't good and he's from the Philippines. he hasn't seen a raise in 10 years. when he texts our PM/Super about a raise he acts like he's joking. he sent him a video and photos of a escort the last time and said there's your raise. yeah man , youre living like Donald trump on 36/$hr in San Diego , why would you expect more money ?

im not gonna go up to Seattle and ask for something crazy like 30/$hr but 18/$ hr? I dont even wanna negotiate after hearing how far apart we are on pay. I already make more than that lol.

luckily they're not the only company who's called me back or responded to my application. almost everywhere ive applied in Seattle has.

I know what im worth because I work hard and im very dependable. I only know so much , yes I know. Im still getting my feet wet. It felt like I was get stabbed in the neck and there was a lot of pain shooting down my left side even when just putting in 4x2 ceiling lights. I didn't take leave until it got unbearable and it hurt getting out of bed in the morning.

I dont know what to do now as a professional , just see what they end up offering me ? Tell them im not interested anymore ? Tell them in not interested and professionally call out their lie ?

should I even bother trying to move up there and find work before getting accepted by the union ? ill fly up for my test and interview, no issues there.

I also submitted paperwork and hours for re-interview down here at 569 San Diego but im not holding my breathe on getting accepted. Its real tough. A year of experience and being H2H probably isn't enough , being a vet doesnt even really help unless you did the trade in the service. We dont get special treatment when trying to get accepted into the apprenticeship like some seem to think.

anyway thanks for reading all that fellas.


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

A company makes you a offer and you have to deiced whether to except, negotiate or reject the offer. 

They said according to your post
"We didn't talk pay directly because they want me to see what the WA L&I transfers and that will "determine"my pay but they said they pride themselves in paying union wages then said everyone starts at 18/$ hr ....... "

Which means pay to be determined $18 minimum (presumably with full benefits).


----------



## dg628 (Jan 9, 2020)

gpop said:


> A company makes you a offer and you have to deiced whether to except, negotiate or reject the offer.
> 
> They said according to your post
> "We didn't talk pay directly because they want me to see what the WA L&I transfers and that will "determine"my pay but they said they pride themselves in paying union wages then said everyone starts at 18/$ hr ....... "
> ...



full free health coverage so that is nice but that doesn't change the fact that they lied about the prevailing wage for the area. why would they do that unless they think im a clueless idiot ? once again , its at least 26/$ hr for a baby **** green apprentice with no experience for commercial work in King Co WA.


----------



## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

Ok, so what was your...point?


----------



## dg628 (Jan 9, 2020)

mofos be cray said:


> Ok, so what was your...point?


do non union shops think their employees are stupid and believe their lies ?

they must think they're mentally incompetent and easy to take advantage of


----------



## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Apprentices make the same money depending upon their year and division. The union and contractor agreement set the rates. Usually for a 3 year period. 

With only a year experience you are looking at starting as a first year apprentice. The question now becomes, which division will you be accepted into?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

> Seattles collective agreement expired in march iirc so its probably more now .... I think they need to re-read that agreement........


If your talking about local 46s inside agreement, that has nothing to do with the prevailing wage. There are other factors that determine the prevailing wage. I’m not sure if it’s correct, but I saw 37.84 as the prevailing wage for a first year apprentice. But that’s the total package. Health care, retirement, etc...



https://secure.lni.wa.gov/wagelookup/ApprenticeWageLookup.aspx


----------



## getting old (Mar 26, 2021)

Does this company only do prevailing wage jobs? Will they immediately put you on a PW job and always have you on one? I had a buddy years ago who worked for a smaller non union company, would make X an hour regularly, and Y amount when working a PW job. Maybe that's how they are. Well anyway, if you don't like what they have to say or offer, don't call them back. The world is full of people looking to take advantage of others. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## dg628 (Jan 9, 2020)

VELOCI3 said:


> Apprentices make the same money depending upon their year and division. The union and contractor agreement set the rates. Usually for a 3 year period.
> 
> With only a year experience you are looking at starting as a first year apprentice. The question now becomes, which division will you be accepted into?
> 
> ...



If youre taking about the union itself then yeah , I could care less if they start me over or dont recognize my hours. the honor of getting accepted to either 569 or 46 is enough for me , even if the former means a small paycut at first.

however , if im gonna work Rat in Seattle before im accepted up there , im not working for any less than 24-26$/hr for commercial. Especially for a company that prides itself in paying "union" wages.

why should I ? I already work for a company thats sending me to school and has plenty of overtime. its still a decent company despite almost everyone leaving for the union after they get their card lol. I already had a raise after 90 days and im about to get a 2/$ one since I completed my first semester of schooling through abc. I make more than 18/$hr now.

I also dont understand why the company I interviewed with start their resi, service and commercial guys all at the same rate. Im sure they'll argue they dont really know what I can do or how I work and promise me a better wage after 90 days that ill never see. Thats what references are for I thought but some companies still do it that way.......


HertzHound said:


> If your talking about local 46s inside agreement, that has nothing to do with the prevailing wage. There are other factors that determine the prevailing wage. I’m not sure if it’s correct, but I saw 37.84 as the prevailing wage for a first year apprentice. But that’s the total package. Health care, retirement, etc...
> 
> 
> 
> https://secure.lni.wa.gov/wagelookup/ApprenticeWageLookup.aspx



I didn't realize that. I always thought the union set the prevailing wage rates for an area. ooooof. Doesnt change the fact 18/$hr isn't union pay in Seattle. yeah , maybe for jack in the box or Starbucks, not for electrical.




getting old said:


> Does this company only do prevailing wage jobs? Will they immediately put you on a PW job and always have you on one? I had a buddy years ago who worked for a smaller non union company, would make X an hour regularly, and Y amount when working a PW job. Maybe that's how they are. Well anyway, if you don't like what they have to say or offer, don't call them back. The world is full of people looking to take advantage of others.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I was told they do but as far as being put on one immediately idk. they said 80% of their work is in Seattle and king co and I thought the union always set the PW rate but I must have been wrong or maybe its different than where I live because 48/$ hr is PW here for journeyman and thats what the ibew guys make on the check here. see the above quote.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

So much going on here, I just couldn't bring myself to read all of it.
Im inclined to believe they are paying PW in some form. It might be something like this hourly rate plus the fringe equals some kind of PW they have. 
Look over the offer, decline it if you are not comfortable with the compensation. I don't think anyone is ignorant of the situation but more accepting of what they are offering.


----------



## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I agree there is so much going on in this thread. Is the OP talking about Union scales or PW? If union then there might be different divisions in the union. Around here it use to be, A, residential, service, small work. If governmental PW then there is State and Federal rates. If they are referring to PW in general then maybe they just mean what the average electrical workers make. Look up a Webster's definition for prevailing wage. Unions represent only about 20% of the work force so why should they dictate the PW for the rest ?

Anyway judging by the attitude, I doubt I would hire the guy.


----------



## dg628 (Jan 9, 2020)

kb1jb1 said:


> I agree there is so much going on in this thread. Is the OP talking about Union scales or PW? If union then there might be different divisions in the union. Around here it use to be, A, residential, service, small work. If governmental PW then there is State and Federal rates. If they are referring to PW in general then maybe they just mean what the average electrical workers make. Look up a Webster's definition for prevailing wage. Unions represent only about 20% of the work force so why should they dictate the PW for the rest ?
> 
> Anyway judging by the attitude, I doubt I would hire the guy.



im talking about union wages and the fact the company lied. 18/$hr is not what inside apprentices make in Seattle. thats a bold faced lie. 

what attitude ? why would I take a pay cut to move somewhere where the pay is supposed to be much better ? thats one of the main reasons for the move

am I supposed to work for 10/$hr ?


----------



## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

What does working "rat" mean? Is that the non union worker? The other 80% of the work force? If you have only one year of non union work then you most likely will start at the beginning or at the bottom in the union. Which might be $18.00 plus benefits.


----------



## dg628 (Jan 9, 2020)

kb1jb1 said:


> What does working "rat" mean? Is that the non union worker? The other 80% of the work force? If you have only one year of non union work then you most likely will start at the beginning or at the bottom in the union. Which might be $18.00 plus benefits.


your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible. you need to go back to school.


no , in Seattle thats 26/$ Hr despite the interviewing non union company lying to me and saying its 18/$. it depends where you live.

its 18$/hr in San Diego actually I think for a first year for ibew but thats besides the point.

since your comprehension sucks though ill EILY5

im interviewing with non union companies to work temporarily in the Seattle area until I get accepted and im not moving to WA to make less than what I do in California , if thats the case ill just fly up for my test and interview at lu 46

when did I ever saying anything about testing up in the union ? im talking about negotiating non union pay

id be so grateful to get accepted to either 569 after my second interview here or 46 up in Seattle after my first I wouldn't give two shits about testing up and getting non union hours recognized. I clearly explained that in another post.

the rat shop tried to tell me that they "pride themselves in paying union wages" then proceeded to tell me they start commercial guys at 18/$. thats not what the union starts inside apprentices at in Seattle. they're lying and trying to take advantage of me.

Seattle lu 46 market share is a lot more than 20%, I dont see the point in bringing up market share on a national level.


----------



## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

I agree that my reading comprehension is lacking with your comments. I have a hard time following your sentence structure, punctuation, capitalization, and presentation. 
When presenting an argument, try to use terms and abbreviations that people are familiar with otherwise people will be lost in trying to figure out what you are saying. To me it sounds like you are young and inexperienced with a bit of millennial entitlement thrown in. But as you said my reading comprehension sucks so it is probably me.


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

I thought this was a troll post but then i read hes from California and its beginning to make sense. 

I will suck hot sweaty balls and take a turn in the barrel for the honor of being a union guy and the rest of you are rats. I don't care what they offer non-union as im so f-ing brainwashed i will even take a pay cut so i can be in the union. so why are you bitching about wages in a non-union job if you are willing to take a pay cut to be in the union and only union jobs are good enough.

People like that scared me when i was in the union. I pity the poor journeyman that gets this one.


----------



## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Breaking news......
The union will also lie.


----------



## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Shop


dg628 said:


> im talking about union wages and the fact the company lied. 18/$hr is not what inside apprentices make in Seattle. thats a bold faced lie.


IBEW is a union, but not all unions with electricians are IBEW.

$18/h could very well be apprentice wages depending what term/year you are.


----------



## sburton224 (Feb 28, 2013)

It sounds to me like the HR person was telling you that they needed to wait until WA L&I transfers before pay will be discussed BUT everyone makes a minimum of 18hr. Rather than jump to conclusions maybe you should ask questions to clarify what you are being told. As far as the prevailing wage pay goes, All jobs are not PW jobs. You will still have a normal base pay when not assigned to a PW job.


----------



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

dg628 said:


> do non union shops think their employees are stupid and believe their lies ?
> 
> they must think they're mentally incompetent and easy to take advantage of


Perhaps they threw $18.00/hr out there to guage the maturity of your response.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> I currently have a year in the trade and love it *despite working rat* but either way it won't be for much longer.
> 
> I took leave due to a car accident I was in and visited my sister up in Seattle. Definitely a beautiful city , I even had someone take me to the olympic peninsula in WA and my god ........


Pretty much a low-life statement to describe open shop electricians.


----------



## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

brian john said:


> Pretty much a low-life statement to describe open shop electricians.


I was trying to figure out where the OP was coming from. Pro union and non union is low life scum or just upset at what he perceived from the future shop he wanted to work for.


----------



## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

I'm usually more than willing to give young guys some slack when they post about their work environment but this guy seems abrasive, offensive and all around entitled. 
You came here to gripe about some company that told they would pay you a low wage. IMO that's because you're not worth more.


----------



## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

kb1jb1 said:


> I agree that my reading comprehension is lacking with your comments. I have a hard time following your sentence structure, punctuation, capitalization, and presentation.
> When presenting an argument, try to use terms and abbreviations that people are familiar with otherwise people will be lost in trying to figure out what you are saying. To me it sounds like you are young and inexperienced with a bit of millennial entitlement thrown in. But as you said my reading comprehension sucks so it is probably me.


But he's a professional, even though he is just a first year apprentice.
They owe him everything.
Probably recieved "participation" trophies while growing up.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

dg628 said:


> *full free health coverage* so that is nice but that doesn't change the fact that they lied about the prevailing wage for the area. why would they do that unless they think im a clueless idiot ? once again , its at least 26/$ hr for a baby **** green apprentice with no experience for commercial work in King Co WA.


You are clueless NOTHING IS FREE, the cost of the health care may be part of the wage package.


----------



## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Wow, you have a bad attitude. I looked up the prevailing wage rate for an inside wireman electrician in Seattle WA(king couty) and found it to be $37.84 per hour for a level 1 apprentice. Yes that is more than $18 an hour. HOWEVER what it doesn't show is the fringe package that is most likely included in that $37.84 an hour price. The base pay rate for the apprentice could very well be $18 an hour. But then you add in Health and Welfare (any where from $0 to $20 per hour, Pension $0 to $20 per hour, training $0.25 to $3 per hour) and it could add up to $37.84 an hour. Your base pay rate could still be in the $18 per hour range and that might be what they are quoting you. You need to do some more research. The rates for pension, health care, training will be different in most county's and set by union negotiations. 

Look at the breakdown in the attached photo of an apprentice pay in Los Angeles county. The base pay is $20.60 per hour, but the total hourly pay is $34.77. If the company offers you a pension plan, health care, and pays your training fund to the union then you would only see $20.60 on your pay check as they don't pay your health care and pension directly to you. If they don't offer you pension and health care then they would pay you $33.41 as the training fee and other fee most likely will NOT be paid out to you and then YOU would be responsible for your health care and pension. You would never see the full $34.77. I don't know what the breakdown is in WA and I doubt you do either by reading your post. I don't live or work in WA but I would assume it works similar to how it works with most of the country on PW pay determinations.

Smaller companies will usually pay out most of the cost directly to the employee as they don't offer health care or pension and larger companies will almost always offer health care and pension and the total cost to them is cheaper due to having price breaks on health care plans etc.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

"A year of experience and being H2H probably isn't enough , being a vet doesnt even really help unless you did the trade in the service." 

Have you looked into the Helmets to Hard hats program in the area you are thinking of relocating too?


----------



## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Are you even comparing the right things?

Union and nonunion pay structures are very different. For instance what percentage of grotto healthcare (if available) shows up on your paycheck? Who pays for tools and transportation? What about retirement? How are you paid between jobs? Vacation?

In a nonunion job the benefits are often “overhead”. They do not come out of your paycheck. A trade union is largely a pass through...benefits come out of your “pay”. The other difference is in nonunion almost everything is negotiable. It is also like car buying...it is expected! Even if there is no negotiation on starting wages others might be.

Plus size does matter. Large companies just match wages with everybody else and you are just a number. Small companies are small so they can compete with better offers.

Don’t just take the first number. In today’s market it’s a sellers market.


----------



## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

To answer the question; Yes, non union shop owners think their employees are ******.
It's a frequent topic of conversation.
It would appear the OP has found out about our nefarious plans.


----------



## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

Read his other thread, 7 months ago









Not to **** on the ibew but I don’t get the obsession...


Maybe it’s the fact I live in San Diego and the local here is very old school and very up and down with work but I don’t understand the blind union nuthuggers. It’s especially true on the r/electricians subreddit and ofc the r/ibew one as well. people pretty much say if you can’t go union...




www.electriciantalk.com


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

CA C-10 said:


> To answer the question; Yes, non union shop owners think their employees are ******.
> It's a frequent topic of conversation.
> It would appear the OP has found out about our nefarious plans.


Do you hold regular meetings of the EAF (Employees are F**KS)?


----------



## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

brian john said:


> Do you hold regular meetings of the EAF (Employees are F**KS)?


Yes, but only zoom currently.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

dg628 said:


> ...
> 
> the rat shop tried to tell me that they "pride themselves in paying union wages" then proceeded to tell me they start commercial guys at 18/$. thats not what the union starts inside apprentices at in Seattle. they're lying and trying to take advantage of me





https://ibew46.com/media/5707/constructionwage_and_benefitschedule_020320.pdf





brian john said:


> Pretty much a low-life statement to describe open shop electricians.


The "rat" actually applies to the contractors, not the employees. - A Lazy Union Thug.


----------



## poncho144 (Apr 7, 2018)

Hang tight for UNION man, I've been a member in 4 over my work'n life. Collective bargaining has been real good for me an family. Wish ya the best luck in all you're life's endeavors. IBEW 702.


----------



## CWL (Jul 7, 2020)

brian john said:


> You are clueless NOTHING IS FREE, the cost of the health care may be part of the wage package.


Very True. Friend of mine owns a machine shop. The hourly wages aren't the highest but the company pays 100% of the health insurance for the employees.


----------



## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

I just love the guys that come on here to grip to us, then leave when they don't hear what they want to hear. Do they not realize that we are good workers, boss's or owners for the most part.
That we have been there and done that.

Cowboy


----------

