# Romex in conduit



## kbsparky

Conduit installed outdoors is considered a wet location. Even the inside of the conduit is a "wet" location.

Romex is not permissible in any wet locations.


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## failelectric

"Romex" is not rated to be in a wet location, even if it protected by a conduit. Consider yourself lucky for getting away with it before. UF cable is rated for wet locations, but has limitation on installation through buildings.


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## Speedy Petey

eantonyg said:


> I thought that the code said that romex is acceptable in conduit as long as it does not exceed 6'. Is this the case?


First off, welcome.
Forgive me if this comes off as rude, but I would think a "_Certified Electrician_ <of> _17 years_" would either know this, or have a code book and know exactly where to look for it.


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## randas

Conduit outside/underground is a wet location.. Romex is a no go in a wet location


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## 480sparky

300.9 and 334.12(B)(4) are your Code references.


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## failelectric

Speedy Petey said:


> First off, welcome.
> Forgive me if this comes off as rude, but I would think a "_Certified Electrician_ <of> _17 years_" would either know this, or have a code book and know exactly where to look for it.


 
I know many electricians that are great electricians that did not know this i would not fell bad about it.


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## HARRY304E

Look at the 2011 NEC 300.9 and 334.12(B)(4) 
And welcome to the forum :thumbsup: let the fun begin:laughing::laughing:


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## HARRY304E

480sparky said:


> 300.9 and 334.12(B)(4) are your Code references.


 Thanks Ken you beet me:laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical

failelectric said:


> UF cable has limitation on installation through buildings.


 

Care to explain?


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## Speedy Petey

failelectric said:


> I know many electricians that are great electricians that did not know this i would not fell bad about it.


Seriously? You know "great" electricians that don't own or know how to use a code book?


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## electricmanscott

eantonyg said:


> I thought that the code said that romex is acceptable in conduit as long as it does not exceed 6'. Is this the case? I was called on this, saying that romex not allowed to be run in conduit in wet location. I ran romex through a piece of romex from the eve to a w/p gutter box through liquid tight conduit less than 6'.


You have two totally different issues you are asking as one question. 

Romex is allowed in conduit, length is not an issue. 

Romex is not allowed in wet locations. The inside of conduit in a wet location is considered a wet location.


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## electricmanscott

Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously? You know "great" electricians that don't own or know how to use a code book?


This must be your first day on the forum. :laughing:


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## eantonyg

Speedy you are obviously the man buddy. I am on the road right now and forgot my code book in my work truck. I was just looking for a little guidance. Thanks for your helpful reply. I wish I could have learned under you, then I might be the best electrician worthy of acting like an electrical god....


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## Speedy Petey

Wow. You read way more into that than I intended. 

You said you thought the code said a certain thing. You did not say you didn't have your book with you. Now today you say it is in the truck. Sorry that I assumed you did not have a code book. 

What code cycle are you under? We can quote you the text if you need it. I have several editions in my phone if no one else chimes in.


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## Flycaster

Romex has THHN insulation, not the dual rated insulation of THHN/THWN that you find on most reels of THHN. No W, no wet location.


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## Dennis Alwon

Flycaster said:


> Romex has THHN insulation, not the dual rated insulation of THHN/THWN that you find on most reels of THHN. No W, no wet location.


Actually NM cable can have any 90C rated wire that the manufacturer wants to use. It may be dual rated or not but since it is not marked then it cannot be used outdoors even if it is in conduit.


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## NolaTigaBait

Dennis Alwon said:


> Actually NM cable can have any 90C rated wire that the manufacturer wants to use. It may be dual rated or not but since it is not marked then it cannot be used outdoors even if it is in conduit.


I NEVER do that:whistling2:


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## 480sparky

Flycaster said:


> Romex has THHN insulation.........


Prove it.


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## Shockdoc

Rarely have i gotten romex with printed Thhn/thwn on the conductors, I'd say 500' out of about one million feet i've installed.


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## NolaTigaBait

Shockdoc said:


> Rarely have i gotten romex with printed Thhn/thwn on the conductors, I'd say 500' out of about one million feet i've installed.


I have some black nm in my house that has "THW" printed on it...I've never seen it on new nm though...


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## Dennis Alwon

NolaTigaBait said:


> I have some black nm in my house that has "THW" printed on it...I've never seen it on new nm though...


I remember black nm back in the 70's


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## jwjrw

Dennis Alwon said:


> I remember black nm back in the 70's




I see a lot of old black AL and CU romex here. All of it early 70's vintage. Same as me...:whistling2::laughing:


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## tkb

eantonyg said:


> Speedy you are obviously the man buddy. I am on the road right now and forgot my code book in my work truck. I was just looking for a little guidance. Thanks for your helpful reply. I wish I could have learned under you, then I might be the best electrician worthy of acting like an electrical god....


What a suck up. :jester:


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## electrolover

why would a man put romex in conduit?
if it were me i would set a box inside and pull thhn to it, then romex out of that if i had to run romex.


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## Dennis Alwon

electrolover said:


> why would a man put romex in conduit?
> if it were me i would set a box inside and pull thhn to it, then romex out of that if i had to run romex.


NM was coming out of the eaves and the op was protecting it down the outside of the house into the panel or somewhere else. Since nm can't be used otdoors he thought sleeving it in carflex would protect it from the wet location. Code will not allow it.


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## electrolover

the residential guys do it here too. i hate it, what if you want to add something later.
i would try to run a pipe to the attic and set a box. like maybe a 2in or even 1 1/4 going to a 12x12. then romex out of that.
but im a commercial guy and i dont have to pay for the materials at work so...

 im doing my house now, the only way i know how. emt in the attic and MC drops (rewire)


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## 76nemo

electrolover said:


> why would a man put romex in conduit?
> if it were me i would set a box inside and pull thhn to it, then romex out of that if i had to run romex.


 
Would you just as soon see me strip it to do a quick transition?:001_huh:

There's a place for almost everything.


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## sarness

What I don't get is if you run a 2" conduit between the basement and attic, you can run 18 romexes in it. Thats 36 current carrying conductors, yet if you ran thhn you would have to derate and up your conductor size.

There should be more consistency.


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## den

sarness said:


> What I don't get is if you run a 2" conduit between the basement and attic, you can run 18 romexes in it. Thats 36 current carrying conductors, yet if you ran thhn you would have to derate and up your conductor size.
> 
> There should be more consistency.


 
I don't think you can run 18 romex's in 2 in. You have to use actual wire measurments and leave your 55% free space. I was called on this once and havn't looked it up yet but that is close. I had to use 1/2" for 12/2 and 3/8" for 14/2


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## McClary’s Electrical

sarness said:


> What I don't get is if you run a 2" conduit between the basement and attic, you can run 18 romexes in it. Thats 36 current carrying conductors, yet if you ran thhn you would have to derate and up your conductor size.
> 
> There should be more consistency.


 
The romex would be subject to derating also.


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## sarness

mcclary's electrical said:


> The romex would be subject to derating also.


Only if its 2 or more going through a fire stopped hole.

I have one of those silly phone apps with electrical calcs on it that says 18 12-2 will fit in a 2" conduit. (not that its right, just saying)

The only other reference I've found is derating mc if its in bundle of over 30.

Code ref?


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## RePhase277

Dennis Alwon said:


> I remember black nm back in the 70's


I had some douchbag HO that wanted to knock me down on the price and question everything I billed. He had a roll of black romex he wanted to use so he could save money. At first I protested, because it wasn't 90 degree, etc. Then he insisted and offered me a trade on a 3-way pipe tap. Guess what, he has some brand new black romex installed in his garage.:laughing:


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## racerjim0

failelectric said:


> "Romex" is not rated to be in a wet location, even if it protected by a conduit. Consider yourself lucky for getting away with it before. UF cable is rated for wet locations, but has limitation on installation through buildings.


 Explain this?


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## HARRY304E

racerjim0 said:


> Explain this?


 I don't think he can..


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## tates1882

eantonyg said:


> I thought that the code said that romex is acceptable in conduit as long as it does not exceed 6'. Is this the case? I was called on this, saying that romex not allowed to be run in conduit in wet location. I ran romex through a piece of romex from the eve to a w/p gutter box through liquid tight conduit less than 6'. I have NEVER been called on this before.


IMO you are in a grey area. If you look at 334.12 b4: Not premitted where exposed to excessive moisture or dampness. Now if you went underground then no it wouldn't be allowed but in your situation I think its fine. Change it to NMC if he insists and quote 334.10 b1


I have sleeved romex in pipe plently of times. Example meter main with AC location close by. I run romex through the walls, pop out by the ac, sleeve with carflex. I never go under ground though.


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## raider1

tates1882 said:


> IMO you are in a grey area. If you look at 334.12 b4: Not premitted where exposed to excessive moisture or dampness. Now if you went underground then no it wouldn't be allowed but in your situation I think its fine. Change it to NMC if he insists and quote 334.10 b1
> 
> 
> I have sleeved romex in pipe plently of times. Example meter main with AC location close by. I run romex through the walls, pop out by the ac, sleeve with carflex. I never go under ground though.


334.12(B)(4) was changed in the 2008 NEC to say NM cable is not permitted "in wet or damp locations".

The definitions of damp and wet locations indicate that all areas outdoors are either wet or damp locations. So NM cable is never permitted to be run in a raceway located outdoors.

Chris


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## ratrod56

failelectric said:


> "Romex" is not rated to be in a wet location, even if it protected by a conduit. Consider yourself lucky for getting away with it before. UF cable is rated for wet locations, but has limitation on installation through buildings.


 340.10 uf cabl uses permitted (4) installed as non.metaiic sheathed cable


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## Cletis

*romex in sealtight*

We run romex through sealtight to A/C's around here all the time. Shove the sealtight back through brick or whatever and foam it. Inspector either doesn't care or doesn't know. When we go across state lines or unknown counties or inspectors we run romex to jbox inside. Then transition to sealtight to A/C and pull thwn. It's kind of ridiculous if you ask me. Just another step. 

What would happen anyway if a bunch of water "happen" to get in sealtight with romex in it??? Would it disintegrate, corrode, melt away ?? I'm just askin

Cletis


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## Mr Rewire

Cletis said:


> We run romex through sealtight to A/C's around here all the time. Shove the sealtight back through brick or whatever and foam it. Inspector either doesn't care or doesn't know. When we go across state lines or unknown counties or inspectors we run romex to jbox inside. Then transition to sealtight to A/C and pull thwn. It's kind of ridiculous if you ask me. Just another step.
> 
> What would happen anyway if a bunch of water "happen" to get in sealtight with romex in it??? Would it disintegrate, corrode, melt away ?? I'm just askin
> 
> Cletis


 corrosion is a high probability.We normally put a disconnect for our A/C units :whistling2:


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## Cletis

*Disconnects*

Yeah. We do too 100% of time. Most of time we go right into back of disconnect but maybe 25% of time have to punch out brick and go a few ft to the disconnects. When I come out of disconnects we run thhn/thwn but if we have to go a few ft we just pull romex sometimes skin in to through off the inspector.


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## electures

sarness said:


> What I don't get is if you run a 2" conduit between the basement and attic, you can run 18 romexes in it. *Thats 36 current carrying conductors*, yet if you ran thhn you would have to derate and up your conductor size.
> 
> There should be more consistency.


More that 7 current carrying conductors requires 50% derating. Regardless of wiring method.


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## sarness

I agree with you on that, but I've been in a few attic's and have seen a yellow and white octopus coming out of a pipe.


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## 220/221

kbsparky said:


> *Conduit installed outdoors is considered a wet location.*
> .


I know it's an old post but......code reference please?

The only thing I can find is wet and dry definitions.


Dry location is _a__ location *not normally subject to* dampness or wetness_.

If the eaves of a house are normally subject to wetness, there are bigger issues.


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## Jlarson

I'll drop NM down a conduit into the top of an outdoor panel all day long here without a second thought.


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## raider1

220/221 said:


> I know it's an old post but......code reference please?
> 
> The only thing I can find is wet and dry definitions.
> 
> 
> Dry location is _a__ location *not normally subject to* dampness or wetness_.
> 
> If the eaves of a house are normally subject to wetness, there are bigger issues.


Under the eaves of a house would be a damp location. (Check out the definition of damp location)

Chris


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## Big John

Jlarson said:


> I'll drop NM down a conduit into the top of an outdoor panel all day long here without a second thought.


 Yeah, but your state is an anomaly, your rainfall is practically measured in negative numbers.

-John


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## macmikeman

I don't particularly disagree with any of the previous posts about damp/ wet locations and all, but I would like to point out that I have stripped damn near a mile of uf cable in my life and never ever once saw any printed thwn labeling on the inner conductors there either.......

Mostly I think it was another fix of a non problem to specifically adjust the damp/ wet locations definitions that got done in the 2008 code. It has raised the costs of wiring dwellings needlessly where the dwelling is up a couple of feet on post and piers if you need to run some cables in the crawlspace for instance. The only thing that ever saw any dedigration due to "damp" was perhaps the cable staples. And those rust just as well holding uf cable in place.


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## manchestersparky

220/221 said:


> I know it's an old post but......code reference please?
> 
> The only thing I can find is wet and dry definitions.
> 
> 
> Dry location is _a__ location *not normally subject to* dampness or wetness_.
> 
> If the eaves of a house are normally subject to wetness, there are bigger issues.


 
In the 2008 NEC -300.9


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## NolaTigaBait

Big John said:


> Yeah, but your state is an anomaly, your rainfall is practically measured in negative numbers.
> 
> -John


Rain or shine, it's never been a problem... That area is usually in a "damp" part of the house...It doesn't usually get directly hit with rain...


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## sparkymcwiresalot

When I did residential I would sleeve romex in conduit all the time. If I went into PVC under a slab I'd use uf. To me adding another joint in a place that's a pita to get to is worse than sleeving the wire.


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## 220/221

raider1 said:


> Under the eaves of a house would be a damp location. (Check out the definition of damp location)
> 
> Chris


 
Chack out the definition of dry :whistling2:



*Location, Dry. *​​​​*A location* *not normally subject to dampness*
*or wetness. *A location classified as dry may be temporarily
subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a
building under construction.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The DAMP definition wavers back and forth. First it says,.... _possible. _
 
*Location, Damp. *Locations protected from weather and
*not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but*
*subject to moderate degrees of moisture. *

WTF is a moderate degree of moisture?? To me it would depend on a lot of factors. There certaily isn't a moderate degree of moisture under an eave here. Tropical climates, maybe so.
​

Then it points out specicic locations _(kind of), _Some basements? Come on.

*Examples of such*
*locations include partially protected locations under canopies,*
*marquees,* *roofed open porches, and like locations*, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,
such as *some basements*, some barns, and some coldstorage
warehouses.

_Under the eaves_ clearly falls into *two *catagories.​
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I'm on the subject, conduit under a slab, on the AB (rock/sand fill) is* not* wet location because it is *not in direct contact with the EARTH*


*Location, Wet. *​​​​Installations underground or in concrete
slabs or masonry in *direct contact with the earth*; in locations
subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such
as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed
to weather.


More examples of poorly written code.:jester:​


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