# Sump Pump Overloads



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

A customer has an issue with sump pumps burning out when they get jammed. These are not big pumps, cord and plug 1HP or less, what I thought were high quality pumps, Myers / Pentair. They are sized appropriately for the amount of water and the usual size of the rocks in the water. (I actually think it's real hard little pebbles that are jamming them but I am not sure yet.) 

I called Myers tech support about it, they said most of their sump pumps have built in overloads that automatically reset when they cool off. If it's just from running too long that's OK, but if it's jammed it will reset, trip again, and eventually the overloads fail to open and the pump will be fried. If the water is rising and it trips the high alarm it will get somebody's attention before the pump is ruined but that doesn't always happen. 

So what's a good solution? Do these pumps just suck (haha) and we should use a different brand? Maybe there's a brand that doesn't auto reset. Or, maybe use a starter with overloads that have to be reset manually and have an aux contact so you can alarm that and get an alert when the pump is jammed.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

The thermal overload is the weak link as its having to open under rotor lock conditions. Repeat this excise a few times and that's the thermal switch burnt to a point where it will no longer close.
A CT switch TD relay wired to the high level alarm wouldn't be a heavy lift but it wouldn't be cheap either. 

If you believe the rotor design is the problem (easy to jam on small rock probably due to a cutter blade) then replacing it and expecting a different results is madness.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

External motor starter with its own OL unit.
Other option is something like this time delay current sensor that you can set before trip, say when it starts eating rocks but don't jam just overloaded.

Cowboy


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

gpop said:


> A CT switch TD relay wired to the high level alarm wouldn't be a heavy lift but it wouldn't be cheap either.


Great mind think alike! I looked up and posted one while you posted first. They are not to bad in price, I used the any current flowing ones for heat tunnels elements.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

There's a guy on YouTube who has done nothing but sump pumps and drainage systems for the last 30 years. He ONLY installers Zoller pumps. Says they are the best you can buy and he's only had a couple issues in all his years of business.

His channel is AppleDrains on YouTube. Hopefully this might help you out.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Thank you gentlemen. 

@gpop, @just the cowboy - If I follow, the idea is if the pump run power is there but there is no current, that means the overload is opened, so trigger the alarm. So the float high in series with the NC on the CT relay triggers the alarm. What's the time delay for? 

@MHElectric, thanks for that, I am going to check it out - I have seen Zoeller pumps shopping around, I think the Mayer / Pentair might be overpriced anyway, Zoeller is made in USA and seems to have high ratings where ever you see them.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

splatz said:


> @gpop, @just the cowboy - If I follow, the idea is if the pump run power is there but there is no current, that means the overload is opened, so trigger the alarm. So the float high in series with the NC on the CT relay triggers the alarm. What's the time delay for?


No it would let you set the current level and time that you want to alarm at. If current goes high for x amount of time then either stop motor or send alarm your choice. Think of it as a fine adjustable overload, only you set the trip time.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

+1 on the Zoeller pumps.
You could use an off the shelf Siemens ESP 200 overload block set to a shorter trip rate, say class 5, to run an alarm and starter control circuit couldn't you?


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I would set the pump on a brick / block to stop the pebbles from getting in there in the first place... and if necessary I would put a cone around the intake to keep them out if they are falling into the pit.

Only after that would I try some sort of electrical solution.

Cheers
John


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Navyguy said:


> I would set the pump on a brick / block to stop the pebbles from getting in there in the first place... and if necessary I would put a cone around the intake to keep them out if they are falling into the pit.
> 
> Only after that would I try some sort of electrical solution.
> 
> ...


Maybe put it in a 5 gallon bucket with a bunch of 1/8” holes drilled in it.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

splatz said:


> What's the time delay for?


If the pump pulls 7 amps running and lets say 15 amps rotor locked you can set the CT switch to 10 amps and latch the high level alarm as it means the pump has jammed. Down side is the alarm is going to latch every time you start the pump so a TD is required to get the pump up to speed. Maybe they even make a switch with a built in time delay.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

gpop said:


> If the pump pulls 7 amps running and lets say 15 amps rotor locked you can set the CT switch to 10 amps and latch the high level alarm as it means the pump has jammed. Down side is the alarm is going to latch every time you start the pump so a TD is required to get the pump up to speed. Maybe they even make a switch with a built in time delay.


See my link post #3


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> See my link post #3


No idea if i need one but i had better order 2 just in case.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Unless you have some sort of inlet screen or filter, to keep out rocks or other foreign objects, anything that you do only changes the time to failure.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

gpop said:


> No idea if i need one but i had better order 2 just in case.


We used them in our heat tunnels for shrink wrap, they had four elements in parallel so you never knew when one went. PID controller just worked harder with three then two then not enough heat during production, we installed these then when they did changeovers we knew which element to change. Worked great saved many hours of down time.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

MHElectric said:


> There's a guy on YouTube who has done nothing but sump pumps and drainage systems for the last 30 years. He ONLY installers Zoller pumps. Says they are the best you can buy and he's only had a couple issues in all his years of business.
> 
> His channel is AppleDrains on YouTube. Hopefully this might help you out.


I've watched Appledrains on YT & IMO he's really good. You could get a consult with him last I watched him.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> We used them in our heat tunnels for shrink wrap, they had four elements in parallel so you never knew when one went. PID controller just worked harder with three then two then not enough heat during production, we installed these then when they did changeovers we knew which element to change. Worked great saved many hours of down time.


We used CT switches as load loss relays on screws conveyors (belt snapped, screw broke) wired to the plc. Nice to know they now come with timers which gives you a lot of hardwired options for very little effort.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

The whole solids handling thing is a lot like most ratings, under ideal conditions, get in the real word and all bets are off.

If there's stuff in the water its time to get away from "sump pumps" and maybe look at electric trash pumps, that's what we use in truck wash and containment bay sumps that get pea gravel, silt. Same pumps we use to dewater small trenches.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

460 Delta said:


> Maybe put it in a 5 gallon bucket with a bunch of 1/8” holes drilled in it.


Winner winner chicken dinner


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Jlarson said:


> The whole solids handling thing is a lot like most ratings, under ideal conditions, get in the real word and all bets are off.
> 
> If there's stuff in the water its time to get away from "sump pumps" and maybe look at electric trash pumps, that's what we use in truck wash and containment bay sumps that get pea gravel, silt. Same pumps we use to dewater small trenches.


Reminds me of a Mud Hog pump.


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