# Magnetic Starter Problems



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

grantkinsel said:


> Hope you can help! I've installed a Furnas Single Phase Reversing Starter with separate push-button start/stop. The starter starts a motor that pulls a cable car up a hill. Forward turns the pulley one way; reverse turns the opposite. Recently, the starter will only start the motor in one direction. The contactor only contacts when the reverse button is pushed and not when the forward button is pushed. No wiring has changed from when it worked fine. The heater coil seems fine. Any thoughts???? thanks!


Any good electrician can fix that for you in under twenty minutes.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

grantkinsel said:


> Hope you can help!
> I've installed a Furnas Single Phase Reversing Starter with separate push-button start/stop. The starter starts a motor that pulls a cable car up a hill. Forward turns the pulley one way; reverse turns the opposite. Recently, the starter will only start the motor in one direction. The contactor only contacts when the reverse button is pushed and not when the forward button is pushed. No wiring has changed from when it worked fine. The heater coil seems fine. Any thoughts????
> 
> thanks!


What have you checked.


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks for the quick reply. I checked the heater coil on the OL relay. I checked for power going in. I've check wiring on the limiter switches and on the run stop switches. It's somewhere in the starter, but I just can't figure where.


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

grantkinsel said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I checked the heater coil on the OL relay. I checked for power going in. I've check wiring on the limiter switches and on the run stop switches. It's somewhere in the starter, but I just can't figure where.


Check interlocks and foward coil.


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks again. The interlock seems ok, although when I manually close the interlocks I still don't get power to the motor.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

K2500 said:


> Check interlocks and foward coil.


 I agree.



grantkinsel said:


> Thanks again. The interlock seems ok, although when I manually close the interlocks I still don't get power to the motor.


You need to meter them, not just jam them in.


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

How do I know if the forward coil is bad? What could cause a bad coil?


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## K2500 (Mar 21, 2009)

grantkinsel said:


> How do I know if the forward coil is bad? What could cause a bad coil?


Ohm it, compare values to the known good reverse coil.

Who are you and what is your job title?


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## beardie (Sep 12, 2013)

You need to disconnect the outgoing feed to the motor manually hold in the push button liven the circuit and work backwards checking for voltage starting with the coil and a common neutral
Is it on a transformer etc


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks. I swapped the forward and reverse coils to see if it was a coil problem and it wasn't. I'll try working backwards as you suggest. It isn't on a transformer.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

grantkinsel said:


> The starter starts a motor that pulls a cable car up a hill. Forward turns the pulley one way; reverse turns the opposite.


Does this car transport people?

Are you quilified to be working on it?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Is there any drawing available? Here is a basic drawing to use. It may not be exactly what you have, but it is how it works.
Courtesy EZ Schematics Pro.
You only need one stop button. Not sure why they put two (2) in this drawing.


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

If it is wired the way it is drawn, which is odd BTW, I believe you need both stop buttons.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

lefleuron said:


> If it is wired the way it is drawn, which is odd BTW, I believe you need both stop buttons.


Yes, but if you dropped wire 5 down to where wire 8 is, you would not need the other stop button. In fact I think it would be LESS safe to have to force the operator to have to remember which stop button to press.

The relays seem like a waste though, I guess maybe that the contactors didn't have any more aux contacts?


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks again for all of the help. Here's a few more data points. First, the car does not carry people. It's for groceries, that sort of thing. After swapping the coils and trying to work backwards from the starter, I discovered the following: there are four auxiliary poles, 2 NO and 2 NC. 1 NC and 1 NO on each side. On the reverse side, each of the auxiliary poles has 120 volts. On the forward side, the NO side has 25 V. I then checked the reading at the starter button, and the forward reads 25 V. So, I assumed a short, and ran a bypass wire from the auxiliary pole to the push button, but no joy. What do you think?


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## beardie (Sep 12, 2013)

The 25v you are reading maybe induced and have no potential
Probably barking up the wrong tree if you are using a digital meter keep tracing through the circuit


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## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

grantkinsel said:


> Thanks again for all of the help. Here's a few more data points. First, the car does not carry people. It's for groceries, that sort of thing. After swapping the coils and trying to work backwards from the starter, I discovered the following: there are four auxiliary poles, 2 NO and 2 NC. 1 NC and 1 NO on each side. On the reverse side, each of the auxiliary poles has 120 volts. On the forward side, the NO side has 25 V. I then checked the reading at the starter button, and the forward reads 25 V. So, I assumed a short, and ran a bypass wire from the auxiliary pole to the push button, but no joy. What do you think?


I think it's time you call an electrician.


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

But why would one side be at 120 and the other at 25. It's strange.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

Check your limit switches and buttons for cleanliness and arcing. And personally those furnas control components are junk. I don't know your spending situation but square d/ Schneider electric iec control components are my fav.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Do you understand the drawing posted? If you don't, pack up you're tools and tell them they need an electrician to work on this.

Looking at the drawing, I see possible reasons why this circuit would only work in one direction.
Do you see those obvious reasons?

Note: The drawing above is generic and was not edited for operation or safety. Its just template and nothing more.


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks, John. I have some ideas, although I starting to run out of them. Here's a drawing of the actual system. Maybe that will help.


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

Is say call an electrician. You'd be time and money ahead.


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

Agreed. The problem is finding one to work on it. Most electricians in my area won't come out to look at it because it's part of a tram. So, I'm doing what I can. It worked fine for a long time so I'm having some difficulty identifying the specific problem.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

grantkinsel said:


> Agreed. The problem is finding one to work on it. Most electricians in my area won't come out to look at it because it's part of a tram. So, I'm doing what I can. It worked fine for a long time so I'm having some difficulty identifying the specific problem.


If you changed the coils and it didn't change, you only have, up button, up limit and down interlock. Everything else is common to both coils. You didn't say if the coil is pulling in, only that the motor won't "start" in forward. Which is it? I'd troubleshoot it with a Wiggy, not a digital meter.











Also, what is the voltage of the control circuit, 120 or 240?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

lefleuron said:


> If it is wired the way it is drawn, which is odd BTW, I believe you need both stop buttons.


You don't. And it does need some adjusting if you remove one. I pulled that drawing off the EZ Schematic Pro Template.



grantkinsel said:


> Thanks, John. I have some ideas, although I starting to run out of them. Here's a drawing of the actual system. Maybe that will help.


Okay. I see you understand how its supposed to work.
Disconnect the motor at the starter so you can play around with it. If you can draw that diagram, you can fix this.

Start with each wire one at a time from the source. DO NOT USE GROUND AS THE REFERENCE! (see backstays post above)
This will screw you up. Attach (clip) the meter lead to the neutral, not to ground.
Test each connection point as you proceed through the forward part of the circuit.
I did not see a fail safe in the circuit. The contact that will not allow either contact to energize when the opposite contactor is engaged. Do you have this? Look at my drawing.

Work your way through. You should be able to pin point the problem from the control panel. 
If you work your way through the circuit, you should find the problem easily.
Take you're time. Don't let others interfere and tell you what happened last time. Find this problem this time and fix it.
Good luck.


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## grantkinsel (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks for all the help. I worked my way through the circuit, found a bad wire, and am up and running. Thanks again!


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## J.B. Gallagher (Oct 22, 2013)

don,t know if you solved your problem,, but I think your reverse interlock contact is corroded or burned up


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## wdestar (Jul 19, 2008)

grantkinsel said:


> Thanks, John. I have some ideas, although I starting to run out of them. Here's a drawing of the actual system. Maybe that will help.


What the...


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