# Shower Stall lighting requirements



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Not in the NEC but may be required by the manufacturer.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

MTW said:


> Not in the NEC but may be required by the manufacturer.


Why would you say that?


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Spark Master said:


> I don't see GFI requirements for shower stall lighting. But if there is a light / fan combo unit, I'm seeing GFI.
> 
> Is there an explanation for this ?


If I remember correctly anything within 3' horizontal or 8' vertical of a shower or tub area are required to be gfci protected. In addition to this it is required to be listed for damp locations, if subject to shower spray then it is required to be listed for wet locations. 410.10


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Edit: just looked it up. The NEC does not dictate whether or not to require gfci protection. It does however defer that decision to the manufacturer. So basically of the manufacturer says it needs gfci protection, it needs it. Good luck!


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

3D Electric said:


> Edit: just looked it up. The NEC does not dictate whether or not to require gfci protection. It does however defer that decision to the manufacturer. So basically of the manufacturer says it needs gfci protection, it needs it. Good luck!


Is that fans & lighting, or just lighting ?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Why would you say that?


Because pretty much every fan manufacturer requires GFI protection when a fan is installed over a shower or tub. 'Cept for FanTech.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Spark Master said:


> Is that fans & lighting, or just lighting ?


The presence of a fan make the gfci come into effect thru the manufacturer not the NEC. Not sure why it is required for fans but not lights other than its the manufacturer trying to cover their butts


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The presence of a fan make the gfci come into effect thru the manufacturer not the NEC. Not sure why it is required for fans but not lights other than its the manufacturer trying to cover their butts


Light is supposedly protected against moisture because of the gasket. Not so with a fan grill.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Spark Master said:


> Is that fans & lighting, or just lighting ?


Its either. The manufacturer is the one that dictates gfci protection. It seems to me that the NEC is going on the fact that it is listed for wet locations so its sealed against water.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Someone on this forum had a pic of a recessed can that required gfci when used over a shower


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Someone on this forum had a pic of a recessed can that required gfci when used over a shower


That was from the manufacturer right?


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Spark Master said:


> I don't see GFI requirements for shower stall lighting. But if there is a light / fan combo unit, I'm seeing GFI.
> 
> Is there an explanation for this ?


 

99 has your answer ... But it is not against the NEC to provide GFCI protection on anything in the Bath Room . 

I always found it good to GFCI the entire Bath Room , Vanity Lights , all shower stuff . Maybe some dip head will change a bulb with the shower running ...





Pete


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

3D Electric said:


> That was from the manufacturer right?


That is correct


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

Seems to be the manufacturer wants to cover their a$$, as most fans are 8' off the ceiling.

When doing retrofits, many houses were built with 3 wire coming from the panel, so you can't use a GFI breaker....


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Spark Master said:


> Seems to be the manufacturer wants to cover their a$$, as most fans are 8' off the ceiling.
> 
> When doing retrofits, many houses were built with 3 wire coming from the panel, so you can't use a GFI breaker....


And why would you think you couldn't use a GFCI breaker?

And what do you mean be "3 wire coming from the panel"?


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

A Little Short said:


> And why would you think you couldn't use a GFCI breaker?And what do you mean be "3 wire coming from the panel"?


 If you have a 14-3 coming from the panel, the black goes to the shower fan, and the red goes to the bedroom outlets, how are you putting in a GFI breaker ? Please explain.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Spark Master said:


> If you have a 14-3 coming from the panel, the black goes to the shower fan, and the red goes to the bedroom outlets, how are you putting in a GFI breaker ? Please explain.


You install the gfci on the line side neutral and line side black wire. From there the load side of the gfci can go to the switch for the fan.

You can also install the gfci on the load side of the switch. It will work.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You install the gfci on the line side neutral and line side black wire. From there the load side of the gfci can go to the switch for the fan.
> 
> You can also install the gfci on the load side of the switch. It will work.


And what are you doing with the load side neutral ?? There is only 1 neutral in the home run back to the panel, and 2 hots. How will the GFI *circuit breaker* work?

Edit, this panel has all tandem breakers, so I couldn't even rearrange anything.....


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Spark Master said:


> If you have a 14-3 coming from the panel, the black goes to the shower fan, and the red goes to the bedroom outlets, how are you putting in a GFI breaker ? Please explain.


You didn't mention it being a MWBC. But you can still use a GFCI breaker, it just has to be a 2-pole.
Land the neutral from the 14-3 on the breaker and the "pigtail" from the breaker on the neutral bar. Black/fan on one hot lug & red/outlets on the other.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You install the gfci on the line side neutral and line side black wire. From there the load side of the gfci can go to the switch for the fan.
> 
> You can also install the gfci on the load side of the switch. It will work.


Where's the handle tie for the MWBC?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Where's the handle tie for the MWBC?


At the supply company--- I gave the info he needed for what he asked


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

A Little Short said:


> You didn't mention it being a MWBC. But you can still use a GFCI breaker, it just has to be a 2-pole.
> Land the neutral from the 14-3 on the breaker and the "pigtail" from the breaker on the neutral bar. Black/fan on one hot lug & red/outlets on the other.


 I did mention it was a MWBC, but I called it a 3 wire. 
I would need to upgrade to a larger panel, and get rid of all the tandem breakers. Then I can use a 2 pole GFI. Lot's a good information.....

I normally don't use 2 pole GFI's. I wonder how it measures the current loss between the 2 poles, and the neutral.....


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> At the supply company--- I gave the info he needed for what he asked


If you can find one that will tie a GFCI and a regular breaker together...tell me.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> If you can find one that will tie a GFCI and a regular breaker together...tell me.


Read my post again. You cannot have a gfci and a reg. breaker on a multiwire branch circuit. I never mention a gfci breaker-- I was talking about a gfci receptacle-- obvious that was not clear


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Read my post again. You cannot have a gfci and a reg. breaker on a multiwire branch circuit. I never mention a gfci breaker-- I was talking about a gfci receptacle-- obvious that was not clear


Okay...can we still be friends? I was just askin'.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Settle it in Thunder Dome! :jester:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

3D Electric said:


> Settle it in Thunder Dome! :jester:


Sounds good to me...where is that? Actually, I believe we had the ET picnic there once. Hard to forget that place...couldn't sit down for a week.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Spark Master said:


> ..... I normally don't use 2 pole GFI's. I wonder how it measures the current loss between the 2 poles, and the neutral.....


It looks at the current on all three conductors. If there is no leakage that current will sum to zero.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Spark Master said:


> I did mention it was a MWBC, but I called it a 3 wire.
> I would need to upgrade to a larger panel, and get rid of all the tandem breakers.


Small sub unless the old panel is crap and the customer is willing to pay. Subs are always good money makers for me.


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