# I hacked one in today



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Picture the diveyest dive bar you have ever heard of. Picture the toilet in said bar. Picture a sewer cleanout next to the toilet nissing the cap. Picture the panel right next to the toilet.

That was my pleasure today.

Arrive at 6AM and the cops start pulling in right behind me. Someone had broken into a restaurant next door and they thought he may still be inside. They waited for the K9 before going in.










Here is my working quarters. Panel is to the right of the toilet.










Go outside, rig temp power light and LOTO.










1/4" partical board Panel cover












Burned bus. AC breaker has been moved twice.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Prepped for removal. Who uses 16d nails to mount a panel???
















Had to cut out drywal and some blocking above. Too many counduits. 

Yanked the panel. 










Of course, there is a different KO pattern. I didn;t get lucky.











Put the connectors on the panel so I wouldn't have to fight the locknuts.












Stared fighting it into place.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Finaly got it squeezed in.












Did an appopriately sloppy drywall patch.










Put a real cover on and screwed it shut.










Made a dozen trips to put away all my crap.











Bus pic


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

When cleaning up I noticed this in the back of the old panel










Someone mounted, ot tried to mount, a paper towel dispenser on the other side of the wall :jester:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Is it just me or did you relocate the interior of the new panel? It looks awfully high. :blink:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Is it just me or did you relocate the interior of the new panel? It looks awfully high. :blink:


It's not you. 

That was hack #2 (#1 being leaving it in the existing location).

Old panel was 24 space. All I could find was a 30. New panels have proper wire bending room built in, old pabels not so much.

The choices were to extend almost all wiring including feeders of flip the panel upside down. In retrospect, I certainly didn't save any time but it looks a little vleaner...maybe...probably not.

Hack # 3 was leaving the romex in there. Some bar fly electrician added something. I didn't look to see what it was....didn't want to know. I just hooked it up how it was.

Hack #5 was using fire caulk on the KO's the got 1/2 torn out with the hole saw.

Hack # 6 was the stamped breaker numbers are upside down.


Believe me, I was not proud of this one. It took me a full, non stop 8 hours. Normally I just replace the bus component but this one didn't have a panel cover and I couldn't find a 24 space panel. How the hell fo you lose a panel cover?? :jester:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> How the hell fo you lose a panel cover?? :jester:


I've been asking that question for many a year. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Someone stole the panel cover for scrap iron..

Probably the guy who ran NM into the old panel.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

OK, I didn't want to say anything because you made the best out of a bad situation.

But.....


Hack #7 - you ran the romex through a snap-in bushing when you could have so easily used a regular romex connector. After all, you chopped out the sheetrock and it was wide open. You really are addicted to those things. :laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> ...Hack #7 - you ran the romex through a snap-in bushing when you could have so easily used a regular romex connector....


 Or hell, use one of these guys: 








They snap in, too (and they're legal :whistling2.

-John


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

220/221 said:


> It's not you.
> 
> That was hack #2 (#1 being leaving it in the existing location).
> 
> ...


 I see two screws holding the panel door shut. 

Is this legal? 

Would it not be better to install a door lock.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

The guy trying to mount a towel rack :laughing:

What an improvement to that dump !

The patch job does fit right in.

Usually the dead front gets lost.

Good job overall, I hate trying to work the existing conduits into a new panel with different KO layout.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

dronai said:


> The guy trying to mount a towel rack :laughing:
> 
> What an improvement to that dump !
> 
> ...


I wish you had a choice to get loadcenters with or without ko's...


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

That's not too bad, all things considered. It's safe and functional, there's no sense turd-polishing.

I just hacked the s**t out of a meter base change-out today. It started off like 8 feet off the ground, so I had to lower it a few feet. It involved a big PVC J-box and some splices and some conduit with no straps and... well that's a good start for now.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

On the bright side, when someone sees your mudding job they can turn 90 deg and puke.:thumbup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> OK, I didn't want to say anything because you made the best out of a bad situation.
> 
> But.....
> 
> ...


Fine. Hack #7. I could have used a connector but, at that point, it really didn't matter.

Hack #8. I teck screwed the ground bus in place.



> I see two screws holding the panel door shut.
> 
> Is this legal?
> 
> Would it not be better to install a door lock


If it's not legal, make it # 9. Considering the conditions, the screws seemed like a better option. They couldn't keep track of the panel cover. How are they going to keep track of a key? :laughing:




> I wish you had a choice to get loadcenters with or without ko's


That's exactly want I was thinking today.

Next time I am going to look harder for a panel I can just retro fit the bus component into. It would have cut the time easily in half.




> The guy trying to mount a towel rack :laughing:


It had just started to drill into the bus component steel. Another two seconds and it would have gone thru. _You would think_ that, when drilling/screwing into drywall and you hit metal at 1/2", you might want to reconsider instead of opting for a teck screw.




> On the bright side, when someone sees your mudding job they can turn 90 deg and puke.:thumbup:


:laughing:

I backed into the handicap grab bar and it dell off the wall. It was screwed into the drywall with plastic anchors :jester: Bartender said "don't worry about it. It falls off all the time". Hack # 10. I put it back with toggle bolts.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I know we have been down this road before.. but I would of left the buss assembly out of the panel until you got the bare can in place..

Maybe it is just me.. working harder than I have too never makes the day any easier..

Just (2) screws and the weight of the panel is cut in half.. 

I could wrestle with (3) times the weight if I had too.. so it is not the issue..

You have been doing this stuff long enough to know the short cuts..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> You have been doing this stuff long enough to know the short cuts..


And the fact that he didn't take the interior out on a panel change like this tells you something - it doesn't save any time.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> And the fact that he didn't take the interior out on a panel change like this tells you something - it doesn't save any time.


It tells me nothing.. everyone has their own style of working.. the weight is cut in half and he has to get the conduits lined up with the holes he punch..

You can't tell me that working with half the weight would not of made that job any easier..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> It tells me nothing.. everyone has their own style of working.. the weight is cut in half and he has to get the conduits lined up with the holes he punch..
> 
> You can't tell me that working with half the weight would not of made that job any easier..


Half the weight? Puh-leaze! The interior of those panels is some copper bussing and plastic. The vast majority of the weight is the tub.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The vast majority of the weight is the tub.


true dat...yup yup....


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

Good job polishing that turd. I thought you said that bathroom was nasty, looks quite clean as compared to some of the dives i have been in. I have seen some i would not even go in, cleaner and safer to go outside and use someones car tire instead.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Made a dozen trips to put away all my crap.



Why not keep one of these on the truck?








Load crap on, wheel in, wheel crap back out when done. When I worked out of a box truck I had multiple carts stuffed in mine :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

B4T said:


> I know we have been down this road before.. but I would of left the buss assembly out of the panel until you got the bare can in place..
> 
> Maybe it is just me.. working harder than I have too never makes the day any easier..
> 
> ...


 
There was a reason. When I relocated the assembly, I used two 1/4 20's from the back side (one mounting hole lined up with an existing hole in the can so I couldn't self tap it).

I was concerned that I couldn't get them tightened down once it was in place. Believe me, I knew that installing the assembly after would have made landing the feeders way easier but I was kind of stuck in the position of lining up the panel cover and using the short feeder wires. It was what it was.

Also, in this panel, the bus was really not very heavy but I know what you mean. Sometimes it's a huge factor.





> Why not keep one of these on the truck?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bring one out occaisionally. In this case, the truck was right outside the door about 20' away.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Would it have been easier to keep the interior where it was and use some of those inline splices that you used in the other service?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Would it have been easier to keep the interior where it was and use some of those inline splices that you used in the other service?


I asked myself the sme question as I was fighting this thing. I did have the lugs and wire with me but you know how I hate wirenuts in panels :laughing:.

It may have been easier but I'll never know. Once I punched the hole in the panel, I was committed.

You know how it is in construction/remodel. Sometimes you have to decide which direction to take and then live with it.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Finaly got it squeezed in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$4.50 for a pint? what a rip off


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I asked myself the sme question as I was fighting this thing. I did have the lugs and wire with me but you know how I hate wirenuts in panels :laughing:.
> 
> It may have been easier but I'll never know. Once I punched the hole in the panel, I was committed.
> 
> You know how it is in construction/remodel. Sometimes you have to decide which direction to take and then live with it.


I hate it when you think of a better way to a do the job a week after it's finished.  :laughing:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> $4.50 for a pint? what a rip off


Hahahaha for reals....


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Why not keep one of these on the truck?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's great until you go to work in a basement, or a house that has stairs in the front, back, inside.. well you get the point.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

That's another thing I learned. Panel replacement using work lights sucks! I feel for you guys working in dark basements all the time. 

Besides adding another 50 degrees to the tiny room, my 300W quartz light was either too high, too low, in my eyes or behind my back creating a shadow. I fought that thing most of the day.

It may be 118 degrees outside (Sat) but at least I can see.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

220/221 said:


> That's another thing I learned. Panel replacement using work lights sucks! I feel for you guys working in dark basements all the time.
> 
> Besides adding another 50 degrees to the tiny room, my 300W quartz light was either too high, too low, in my eyes or behind my back creating a shadow. I fought that thing most of the day.
> 
> It may be 118 degrees outside (Sat) but at least I can see.


You can get (2) of these clip on lights with CFL lamps and plug them into a Sportsman's Battery Jumper with 120v inverter..

The light will last you (6) hours or longer.. depending on the charge..


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T;481010. said:


> everyone has their own style of working..


Then STFU about removing the guts in every service thread.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Then STFU about removing the guts in every service thread.


Stick it where the sun don't shine and I will never shut up about anything that I do that makes the job easier, faster, or a better design..  

Put me on ignore or* you* can STFU.. :thumbsup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B4T said:


> Stick it where the sun don't shine and I will never shut up about anything that I do that makes the job easier, faster, or a better design..
> 
> Put me on ignore or* you* can STFU.. :thumbsup:


You just THINK it's better, doesn't mean it is. :no:

Why would I ignore you. I'm a sucker for a good laugh and the comedy you bring is priceless. Can't wait for the next gem.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> You just THINK it's better, doesn't mean it is. :no:
> 
> Why would I ignore you. I'm a sucker for a good laugh and the comedy you bring is priceless. Can't wait for the next gem.


Here is something just for you.. :sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*HOles*

What was your method for aligning your holes with the wires in existing conduit 220/221 ?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Cletis said:


> What was your method for aligning your holes with the wires in existing conduit 220/221 ?


Tape measure and a few reducing washers.

Also, I had to cut out the upper drywall and some blocking to get some slack. A couple of conduits were *really* tight and there was no way it was gonna happen.


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## gearhead (May 13, 2007)

Good to see my local police doing something. Well pretty local I'm just outside of Phoenix in Surprise.


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

B4T said:


> Put me on ignore or* you* can STFU.. :thumbsup:


"STFU" has been thrown around here a lot lately. :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Cletis said:


> What was your method for aligning your holes with the wires in existing conduit 220/221 ?


I was thinking the same thing. :thumbsup:


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## Kevin McDonald (Jun 22, 2011)

Peter D said:


> And the fact that he didn't take the interior out on a panel change like this tells you something - it doesn't save any time.



Take the interior out? Why on this good green earth would a fella do something like that?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Kevin McDonald said:


> Take the interior out? Why on this good green earth would a fella do something like that?


 
Many times it makes sense. The bus assembly on a commercial style 225A panel weighs about as much as the enclosure. If it were a main breakered assembly, it would make more sense.












In the bar panel, if I didn't relocate the assembly, I _would have_ simply removed the two screws and taken it out of the way. It would have been one less thing to fight the wires around.


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