# Union rank list



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

If the work is not there, the work is not there. 
And there is no incentive that I know that is paid by any taxpayer. 
The only work that is tax payer money is government work. 
And that will all be prevailing wage, so the rate will be the same for both open shop, or union. There is usually checks done weekly on manpower, as well as payrolls to confirm the workers actually collect the proper rate. 
I cannot speak to how the list ranks you, but if there are 140 people ahead of you with no large projects lined up, I personally would look elsewhere. Remember loyalty is only pocket deep. In other words go for the money.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

The incentive exists in most provinces in Canada, if all of them. There must be work if my friends can get work just because they know the contractor.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

electricnewf said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I re-joined the IBEW last May after I was laid off from my IT position. It's almost been a year now and I'm listed as being 141 on the ranking list.


Where were you last may when you resigned your list?

It is possible you fell off the list at some point.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I've been working in IT ever since because I was tired of waiting around for a call. I haven't worked in my trade since 2009. IT jobs seemed easier to get, but those jobs in the current market are only temporary at best. I'm just looking to get back in the trade again before my unemployment benefits run out.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

So, you're an apprentice? Just call the JATC office and ask. It's not secret info. If you don't understand how it works they will be happy to explain it to you. Heck, if you haven't been working for a year, what has stopped you from just paying them a visit in person?


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I have, many times. I did all the required courses to work on any oil or mega project that comes up either in Alberta or the east coast. I wasn't successful during the construction boom, and now with the recent oil price slump many people have been laid off so it will likely be next to impossible to get anything now.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

electricnewf said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I re-joined the IBEW last May after I was laid off from my IT position. It's almost been a year now and I'm listed as being 141 on the ranking list. What exactly does that mean? That there's 141 apprentices ahead of me that will be picked first for work?


Yes.


> What is the purpose of paying dues when you are never called for work?


For the same reason you countinue to pay your mortgage even if you take a job overseas for a year. You still want your house to be there when you get home.


> There must be work if my friends can get work just because they know the contractor.


Well then the contractor knows, and wants your friends to work. But not you. If your friends know you've been out for a year and need work, why aren't they doing what friends are supposed to do?


> I wasn't successful during the construction boom, and now with the recent oil price slump many people have been laid off so it will likely be next to impossible to get anything now.


If you weren't successful as an apprentice, with 80% of your wages subsidized by the government, during a boom, I highly suggest you think long and hard about why that would be.


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## Sparky Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

It kind of sounds to me like you got dropped. I know in our local, if an apprentice leaves, that's pretty much it, they are gone for good. Our apprentice coordinator does a pretty good job keeping them working, even in the worst of times. Your situation sounds like there's more to this than you've said or your local operates very differently than ours.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

IslandGuy said:


> If you weren't successful as an apprentice, with 80% of your wages subsidized by the government, during a boom, I highly suggest you think long and hard about why that would be.


Likely because the contractors are too cheap to pay the other 20%. Especially when they post the need for apprentices and I physically walk in there to hand in my resume (most just email) and never get a call back.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Sparky Girl said:


> It kind of sounds to me like you got dropped. I know in our local, if an apprentice leaves, that's pretty much it, they are gone for good. Our apprentice coordinator does a pretty good job keeping them working, even in the worst of times. Your situation sounds like there's more to this than you've said or your local operates very differently than ours.


I started in 2009. I was 24 then. I worked with a lousy contractor for a little while and that was only because I knew someone who got me in. The journeyman wouldn't take the time to teach me anything yet I had to make it look like I was constantly busy doing not much at all. So eventually I was laid off. I couldn't wait for work and I was pretty poor for a while until I went back at IT again. I'm glad I have another field of study to fall back on because the reality is here that it takes 10 years to do a 4 year apprenticeship program, because there's always tradespeople out of work.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

You know, too many young guys feel like things should be handed to them, like they shouldn't have to work for it. Life owes them something.

And then there's those guys that put their nose to the grind and make something out of life. What an amazing concept.

By the time your 30 (25 really!), you should be past the point in life where you always make excuses for why things don't work out for you. Should be....

Good luck. Life is 90% what you make of it.


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## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

One thing I will say about the IBEW,if you are not connected by blood,ethnicity,politics,butt kissers,and suck-ups you will be swimming against the tide,no matter how good an electrician you are!


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Can the Mods please relocate this to the union section?


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Can the Mods please relocate this to the union section?



Ask and you shall receive. :thumbup:


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## dreamcrusher28 (Oct 19, 2010)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing I will say about the IBEW,if you are not connected by blood,ethnicity,politics,butt kissers,and suck-ups you will be swimming against the tide,no matter how good an electrician you are!



100% false.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing I will say about the IBEW,if you are not connected by blood,ethnicity,politics,butt kissers,and suck-ups you will be swimming against the tide,no matter how good an electrician you are!


The contractor that hires you only cares about one thing, and that is being a good electrician. Those other things may help, but not if you are a lousy electrician.


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## Sparky Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing I will say about the IBEW,if you are not connected by blood,ethnicity,politics,butt kissers,and suck-ups you will be swimming against the tide,no matter how good an electrician you are!


I had 34 years in the IBEW. I knew no one when I applied for the apprentice program, had no connections, didn't kiss butt or suck up to anyone. I just worked hard and strove to be the best. It paid off.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

cabletie said:


> The contractor that hires you only cares about one thing, and that is being a good electrician. Those other things may help, but not if you are a lousy electrician.


Yes but if the journey person isn't showing you the ropes then do you complain to the contractor when they and that person are good buddies? That has a lay off written all over it. I should've went to the labor board about it, because nepotism is rampant with electrical companies.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Sparky Girl said:


> I had 34 years in the IBEW. I knew no one when I applied for the apprentice program, had no connections, didn't kiss butt or suck up to anyone. I just worked hard and strove to be the best. It paid off.


I haven't been given a chance to see if I'm cut out for this so I don't know what would be in store for me. All I know is that if I stay in IT I'll be working temp jobs all my life. Too many immigrants in Canada now competing for the same jobs.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Sparky Girl said:


> I had 34 years in the IBEW. I knew no one when I applied for the apprentice program, had no connections, didn't kiss butt or suck up to anyone. I just worked hard and strove to be the best. It paid off.


Just curious do you know that SOME locals were looking for female members and in SOME cases that may give female applicants an edge.

As for getting ahead because of family or friends, I am sure there is a certain amount of that in every local. Someone son, cousin or neighbor, that happens across the board in almost every business. Some locals are most likely worse than others in regards to this.

Lastly I THINK most locals give preferences to minorities and military.


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## Sparky Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

Bad Electrician said:


> Just curious do you know that SOME locals were looking for female members and in SOME cases that may give female applicants an edge.


Not in 1974. :no:


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

OK.....I'm going to take an educated guess here. Based on the OP's username...electricnewf, and the fact that his location says Canada, plus the fact that he is complaining about so many apprentices ahead of him on the books...........and I'm going to say you're a member of 2330, NFLD.

That will pretty much say it all if you are.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Yeah, the 2330....any other local I can join?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

electricnewf said:


> Yeah, the 2330....any other local I can join?


Not in NFLD......unfortunately you're stuck with them. One of the worst, least respected locals in the country. I don't want to get into a public airing of some the things that local does but if you're truly interested.....I can PM you a few stories.
You're absolutely right in saying it's all about who you know (or blow) in that local. 

All I can do is wish you the best of luck:thumbsup:


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

That's really to bad. Now I'm not sure if I should even give them any money for dues, because they aren't doing me much good while I sit in the bench out of work and accumulating debt.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

electricnewf said:


> That's really to bad. Now I'm not sure if I should even give them any money for dues, because they aren't doing me much good while I sit in the bench out of work and accumulating debt.


My advice on it is keep up your dues. They really aren't that expensive in the big picture, and it helps if you're already a member if you decide to transfer to another local.

You have some big jobs coming up over there on the island and around lab city....... go see your Business Manager and your Apprenticeship director and express a desire to travel. You may get sent to various jobs around the island but at least you get experience and start banking away hours for your apprenticeship.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Traveling wouldn't be a bad option, but the problem is that there's so many apprentices here looking for work. There are colleges here both public and private, that basically have a lot of students finishing their trades programs every month. I visited the union office yesterday to see who was getting the jobs lately, and for every job I applied for there were at least 20 apprentices ahead of me. I'd love to work, and even applied for some non-union work here, but there's usually a lot of nepotism wherever I apply. I should be able to bring my apprenticeship anywhere in Canada and apply for jobs in any local, as long as my dues are paid. I thought the union was just one big happy family, but I told them that my UI benefits run out in a couple of months, and they didn't seem to care.

A major problem with this union is the amount of favoritism that goes on. Of someone has a relative in the office, when the time comes for them to get laid off, they automatically go back on the list and bump whoever else was waiting for work. The result is that there's people paying dues for years and never get a shot at doing union work. Soon all the work on those projects will dry up and the union will be saying once again that they can't find work for anyone, yet their family and relatives are constantly working in their trade whether there's a downturn in work or not. Anything to keep them on the payroll.

I'm starting to think I'm paying into a scam. Maybe I should go to the news about my unions deceitful practices and see of that will shake some feathers.


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## dreamcrusher28 (Oct 19, 2010)

No offense but you have a very defeatist attitude. And your ideas of how you think the system works to how it actually works seems a bit off. Maybe non union is the way for you to go, nothing wrong with that. Plenty of good ones out there feeding their families and living a good life. Good luck.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Sorry about the attitude, but what do you guys do when you're waiting for work for two years?


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## dreamcrusher28 (Oct 19, 2010)

I went an got a job with the LIRR. Was sick of the ups and downs with IBEW 25.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

dreamcrusher28 said:


> No offense but you have a very defeatist attitude. And *your ideas of how you think the system works to how it* *actually works seems a bit off*. Maybe non union is the way for you to go, nothing wrong with that. Plenty of good ones out there feeding their families and living a good life. Good luck.


 
Unfortunately.......he has hit the nail pretty well square on the head when it comes to 2330. I would seriously consider non-union if I lived in NFLD as well. 

To the OP....... Kiewit is looking for tradespeople, specifically electricians, at their mod yard in Marystown, NFLD. Check their website and send a resume. You never know.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Rollie73 said:


> Unfortunately.......he has hit the nail pretty well square on the head when it comes to 2330. I would seriously consider non-union if I lived in NFLD as well.
> 
> To the OP....... Kiewit is looking for tradespeople, specifically electricians, at their mod yard in Marystown, NFLD. Check their website and send a resume. You never know.


Is Kiewit all union? I do a ton of work for them in this area.


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## dreamcrusher28 (Oct 19, 2010)

Maybe in that ONE local. But he's already spoke of packing it in and hitting the road. If he (or you) think it's like that everywhere then you're (all) delusional. It's not, plain and simple.


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## dreamcrusher28 (Oct 19, 2010)

Just realized you guys are in Canadia land. I have no clue what goes on up there. You call cops mounties. And say eh after every sentence.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Is Kiewit all union? I do a ton of work for them in this area.


No they are not, because what they are doing is not a government run project


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> Is Kiewit all union? I do a ton of work for them in this area.


They are primarily non-union in this area.



dreamcrusher28 said:


> Maybe in that ONE local. But he's already spoke of packing it in and hitting the road. If he (or you) think it's like that everywhere then you're (all) delusional. It's not, plain and simple.


I for one don't think that's what its like in every local.....that specifically why I said that its the norm for 2330....not for IBEW. Reading comprehension is your friend.:laughing:

I've done more than my fair share of travelling around locals. Almost 20 years of being a member of IBEW means you get to travel around a lot.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Can I find work in another local if I explain my situation to them?


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

electricnewf said:


> Can I find work in another local if I explain my situation to them?


Yes you can. I know for a fact that Ottawa local is hiring travelling apprentices. My local (1852) is sending guys there regularly. Talk to your apprenticeship director at 2330 and see if they will get you sent there.:thumbsup:


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I've left several messages with the business manager in the last week but haven't received a reply. No one at the union office is very helpful, and I have no idea what work they do other than the dispatcher, the most important one. Anyway I called locals in both Edmonton and in Ottawa and none of them are hiring travelling apprentices. My unemployment benefits end on July 5 so then I'll be using my savings. It doesn't have to be this way. Maybe there's just way too many apprentices. I'm not sure why there's so much persuasion by the public for high school students to learn a trade because there's no work for them.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

It took a while but I finally found a job with a non-union company taking advantage of the wage subsidy we have here for apprentices. How much does a 2nd year typically make? I'm making a career change in doing this so I hope things work out.


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## mapmd (Oct 26, 2014)

Spunk#7 said:


> One thing I will say about the IBEW,if you are not connected by blood,ethnicity,politics,butt kissers,and suck-ups you will be swimming against the tide,no matter how good an electrician you are!


One reason I think I'll stay private. I come here to the Union section to see what it's all about, but is it really worth it?

I look at the wage scales for some localities and am quite impressed, but if I work harder than the next guy do I get paid more? Or if the other guy is a complete screwup, doesn't show up on time, is constantly taking smoke breaks, etc....does he make any less?

In union, obviously not it seems, and if I'm in this for the long haul I should be able to leverage my worth.

I already make $4/hr. more than the kid who has 3 more months experience. Merit pays, or at least it should. It's also nice to know there are a few others who'll be bumped off first should the economy contract again.

But to the OP who took a 5+ year gap to work in IT....that's a looooonnnnng gap dude. I mean if you inverse the years so that you previously had 5 years experience and took a 1 year long break that's understandable, but if you only had a year of experience beforehand your skills and knowledge have atrophied significantly. 

Plus what assurance does any potential employer have that you won't jump ship to work IT again? Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that has to be what's going through their minds. Maybe it's better in Canada.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Most merit shops are a farce. Not that you can't get paid well open shop but that's generally the exception not the rule. And there is plenty of favoritism open shop.

And yes you can get paid higher than scale. The scale is a minimum wage. There will always be hall trash but the men that are usually last on the job pull their weight and most likely to make foremen or general foremen.


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## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I start my apprenticeship again tomorrow. There was nothing said by the contractor on the fact that I've been out of the trade for a while. I'm ready to re-learn what I need to, most of the learning being on the job anyway.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

TGGT said:


> Most merit shops are a farce. Not that you can't get paid well open shop but that's generally the exception not the rule. And there is plenty of favoritism open shop.
> 
> And yes you can get paid higher than scale. The scale is a minimum wage. There will always be hall trash but the men that are usually last on the job pull their weight and most likely to make foremen or general foremen.


 
When I was on the tools.....I frequently made higher than scale. 

It seems to be a little known fact that within the union that the employer can (and sometimes does) pay the employee a higher rate then that which is specified in the contract. That rate in the contract is the minimum amount that MUST be paid to the employee.

Somehow it seems that if you are an exceptional worker, show up on time, are dependable and knowledgeable and get paid higher than scale, then you're a company man and some sort of ratty suck-up but if you do the bare minimum to get by everyday.......you're suddenly Mr Joe Union.

IMO........Work under the scale, you're a rat and selling out the brotherhood and snubbing your nose at the contract.


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## pete87 (Oct 22, 2012)

Rollie 73


Cash in the Envelope was the old way also to show appreciation for good men .



Pete


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

*Whenever an apprentice says...*

The j-man is, "not training him to be an electrician..."

He REALLY means that he's embittered about the tasks that he's been assigned.

He actually IS being trained as an electrician -- it's just that the reality is not synched with his lofty expectations.

1) Real electricians have to put their hands to a shovel -- many's the time

2) Real electricians have to get down into the dirt/ trench/ hole -- many's the time

3) Apprentices have to pay their dues -- all of the indignities that they think are unique to them are old hat to every senior man on the job -- everyone.

I've lost track of the number of apprentices that thought that they'd begin their training doing make-up.

I've NEVER had an apprentice expecting to dig ditches, recover underslab stubs, or anything 'dirty.' 

The modern norm for applicants is that they figure that they are paid to stand around and talk.

If there is ONE unifying theme: if their jaws are moving -- nothing else is. Even for the shortest responses - - the hands come to a FULL STOP.

I think this is due to modern TV convention. In a TV show -- ALL of them -- the actor speaking is normally motionless -- delivering his lines.

The next time you watch a TV show -- keep your eyes peeled for this.

I've discovered that this can be cured by direct attention -- from the outset.

"Talking without working = you're edging closer to prompt lay-off."

And, more generally, modern apprentices don't comprehend that they are TALKING TOO MUCH. Too many sit-coms in their brains. MOST trades work is performed in silence. 

THAT'S why the seasoned j-man has had enough of them. Naturally, the young pup doesn't appreciate that he's out of school... back chatter, wise.:no:


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