# Black Friday



## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

No black fri shopping here...


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> http://blackfridayprotests.org/
> 
> http://99pickets.org/2012/12/12/how-to-rebrand-walmart/
> 
> ...


Henry Ford, also a big union hater would have paid more. He wanted all his employeese to be able to afford a Model T. He introduced the $5.00 day when that was UNHEARD of. He understood the balance of paying a good wage, and getting a good days pay.
Wall Mart is just the greediest corp. on earth, and as a taxpayer, I pay all their employees food stamps and health care to subsidize THEIR profits. It makes me sick to my stomach.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

big2bird said:


> Henry Ford, also a big union hater would have paid more. He wanted all his employeese to be able to afford a Model T. He introduced the $5.00 day when that was UNHEARD of. He understood the balance of paying a good wage, and getting a good days pay.
> Wall Mart is just the greediest corp. on earth, and as a taxpayer, I pay all their employees food stamps and health care to subsidize THEIR profits. It makes me sick to my stomach.


 I love Wal Mart we do service on eight. Nobody is forced to work at Wal Mart if they are unhappy with the wage get the skills you need to get a better wage.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

rewire said:


> I love Wal Mart we do service on eight. Nobody is forced to work at Wal Mart if they are unhappy with the wage get the skills you need to get a better wage.


Hey rewire, do the stores call you to do the work or does it go thru a maint. service company?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

rewire said:


> Nobody is forced to work at Wal Mart if they are unhappy with the wage get the skills you need to get a better wage.


"I sold my soul to the company store."


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Hate wal-doe mart....they opened one up 2 miles from me....now you read the police blotter and they (the coppers) are there several times a week....and often they are arresting the employees for stealing....so with that been said , old Italian saying......"the fish rots from the head down".....


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

rewire said:


> I love Wal Mart we do service on eight. Nobody is forced to work at Wal Mart if they are unhappy with the wage get the skills you need to get a better wage.


How do you like YOUR taxes subsidizing their workers?:whistling2:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Speak of the devil. Just today:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ten-companies-paying-americans-least-112523979.html


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

big2bird said:


> How do you like YOUR taxes subsidizing their workers?:whistling2:


My tax dollars being wasted on prevailing wage projects to "level the playing field" for the unions benefit is much better.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

As a footnote to this story....many are now going to be open at PM Thanksgiving day.....so much for blackfriday.....as a nation and group of all sorts of people this makes me sick....so little of what made us what we are as a nation means anything.....vetrans day, labor day, 4th of July, it goes on and on.....soon xmas will be a shopping day....f' their families they have to come in so we can continue our endless search for profits....I worked in a major supermarket when I was a kid...closed on sundays at 6....I remember when all stores were closed on sundays....how much in enough????......and yes they the shoppers will come for fear of missing something.....ah mass media....look into to my eyes....youuuuu feeeeel sleeeeeepy.......


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> My tax dollars being wasted on prevailing wage projects to "level the playing field" for the unions benefit is much better.


It stimulates the economy much more than hand outs. Non-union benefits just as much. Are you really this stupid?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

big2bird said:


> It stimulates the economy much more than hand outs. Non-union benefits just as much. Are you really this stupid?


Government spending never stimulates the economy. Are you really that ignorant of economics?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

MTW said:


> Government spending never stimulates the economy. Are you really that ignorant of economics?


Really? The dow is at an all time high because of it, or do you not read the WSJ?


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

big2bird said:


> It stimulates the economy much more than hand outs. Non-union benefits just as much. Are you really this stupid?


There's the name calling, that didn't take long. I thought the union guys were always the ones being attacked on this site. Guess not.

It stimulates the economy?

Prevailing wage _*is*_ a handout. It is a handout to the unions. Sure, the non-union workers make a little extra money while working prevailing wage but that isn't the purpose of it. Prevailing wage is meant to force the non-union companies to have to increase their costs so that the unions don't have to bid competitively for the project. If everyone's labor cost is the same then no one has an advantage. You would think that since the union's quality is so much better laughing::laughing::laughing::no they wouldn't need to compete based on price alone. Customers should be knocking their door down with contracts begging for union labor. Apparently, that's not the case, so they need the politicians to stack the rules in their favor with PLA's and prevailing wage laws.

Then again, maybe I just don't understand. I'm pretty stupid.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> There's the name calling, that didn't take long. I thought the union guys were always the ones being attacked on this site.
> 
> Then again, maybe I just don't understand. I'm pretty stupid.


At least we can agree on something.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

big2bird said:


> At least we can agree on something.


I see what you did there, pretty clever.:brows:


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

Yeah

All those walmart/mcDonalds, Yum workers can afford to just up and quit.

All what? 3.5 million of them...how stupid you speak.

Because people who actually have educations on this site know how much 

one costs.

Figure 72 credits, at $185.00 each, or $13,300 dollars. Add in $100.00 bucks 

for books each credits (and that may be too low) and you are at $20,500 for 

the raw cost of a single AAS at a technical school. Now add in travel and 

wages lost while attending- and its one hell of a bill.

Now what if you are 1/2 of the income for a household with children? Its a

near impossible dream for 95%+ of those people.

Thats what? About 3.3 million of those people?

And how long would you have to work at 8 bucks per to pay for that 

education....one you might be able to get a job with, but maybe not?


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

lefleuron said:


> Yeah
> 
> All those walmart/mcDonalds, Yum workers can afford to just up and quit.
> 
> ...


I became an electrical apprentice with no education and started on the path to a better career (I was a stock clerk at a grocery store). It didn't cost me $20,000 to improve my situation, just a little motivation and hard work.

I have friends who are carpenters, plumbers, painters, etc. Same thing for them.

There are a lot more options in life besides a minimum wage dead end job at McDonalds or paying $100,000 for a masters degree. There is a lot of middle ground there. I would think that a tradesman such as yourself would understand the options available for someone who wants to work hard and better themselves. I submit that anyone who is "stuck" in a minimum wage job has only one person to blame. Of course there are always extenuating circumstances, but for the most part it is lack of motivation to put the work into it to make their situation better. People just want everything handed to them. No one wants to work for anything.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Mcdonalds irony ....when I was a kid they advertised so little if at all, food was pretty good......fast forward.....food crappy...advertising in the millions.....a hamburger was .25 then (yes...25 cents) :laughing:


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

EBFD6 said:


> I became an electrical apprentice with no education and started on the path to a better career (I was a stock clerk at a grocery store). It didn't cost me $20,000 to improve my situation, just a little motivation and hard work.
> 
> I have friends who are carpenters, plumbers, painters, etc. Same thing for them.
> 
> There are a lot more options in life besides a minimum wage dead end job at McDonalds or paying $100,000 for a masters degree. There is a lot of middle ground there. I would think that a tradesman such as yourself would understand the options available for someone who wants to work hard and better themselves. I submit that anyone who is "stuck" in a minimum wage job has only one person to blame. Of course there are always extenuating circumstances, but for the most part it is lack of motivation to put the work into it to make their situation better. People just want everything handed to them. No one wants to work for anything.


 So, you would hire a 35 year old single mother of three and give her an apprenticeship?

If thats what you are saying, drop some contact info here and I will be nice enough to post it for you in a place these people go looking for a way out.

If thats not what you are saying, could you explain to all of us what this lady is supposed to do?


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

lefleuron said:


> So, you would hire a 35 year old single mother of three and give her an apprenticeship?
> 
> If thats what you are saying, drop some contact info here and I will be nice enough to post it for you in a place these people go looking for a way out.
> 
> If thats not what you are saying, could you explain to all of us what this lady is supposed to do?


Why is the woman 35 years old without skills and experience? Why didn't she use the previous 18 years of her adult life to gain skills and experience? Why does she have 3 kids when she clearly can't afford them?


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

lefleuron said:


> So, you would hire a 35 year old single mother of three and give her an apprenticeship?
> 
> If thats what you are saying, drop some contact info here and I will be nice enough to post it for you in a place these people go looking for a way out.
> 
> If thats not what you are saying, could you explain to all of us what this lady is supposed to do?


#1 I am an employee not an employer, so I'm not hiring anyone.

#2 there are many different options open to people in that position. Trade apprenticeships, job training programs, educational financial assistance programs for low income people who are in need and truly wish to better their lot in life. 

The problem is (and I'm generalizing here, obviously there are exceptions) most of these people do not want to work to better their situation. They want the government to come in and give them an easy out, a hand out, an increase in the minimum wage, etc. They don't want to put the blood, sweat, and tears into it that most of us have had to. They just want someone to hand them a better life. I know of what I speak. I was making $8.00 an hour as an 18 year old with a new born baby. My girlfriend (now my wife) had no high school diploma and no job skills. We struggled due to our poor choices in life. Instead of sitting on my azz bitching about how bad my life was and waiting for someone (the government) to come in and fix it for me, I took steps to better my situation. 

A 35 year old single mother of 3 has made some decisions in her life to put her in that situation. Some circumstances in life may have been beyond her control, but at 35 if the only job you can get is a minimum wage job at McDonalds, you screwed up. It's up to you to fix your situation, not the government. There are _*assistance*_ programs out there, and I fully support assisting people that need it and are trying to do better. I do not support handing people something they have not worked for.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

There's a world of dif between handout and handup EBFD6

And i'd caution there are no self made men, not even i, who looks out on farm and biz by my own hand 

Now that the corporate elites are busy degrading labor into some rice bowl a day existence, they'd love us to buy into that egotistical fairytale

we're a collectivist society, like it or not

that's because _everything_ economic is interconnectable in it's effect

we're all part of that food chain, the Union guys to the McRodents all on the good ship American Labor

The Q we need to ask is, who's back pocket are we in?

~CS~


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> There's a world of dif between handout and handup EBFD6


I'm pretty sure that's what I said :blink:

Handout :no:

Handup :thumbsup:

Handjob :clap:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

rewire said:


> I love Wal Mart we do service on eight. Nobody is forced to work at Wal Mart if they are unhappy with the wage get the skills you need to get a better wage.


Not a real person are you? Some people need a job that aren't as smart as you to be a lectrission . You go..


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Perhaps EBFD6

With one particular issue i'd take to task, if you don't mind

Governmental intervention 

Yeah it's unpopular , and yeah there's an awful lot of examples that they've assumed towards that particular public opinion

But without them _at least _setting benchmarks, were in for an anarchy based market where the race to the bottom is all in the coffers of those at the top

Now we take the min wage issue _(which we seemed to divert to in the O'care thread)_ , most folks don't realize min wage was really seen as a starting point for teenagers back when it was created. It was a hedge against labor abuse as well.

It was never _meant_ to be a working mans wage. Now it , sadly, is. 

Keep in mind the world has turned, and turned might fast since the days when a blue collar like me & you could , on his own merit, support a stay/home wife 2.5 kids and white picket fenced piece of the American dream

Sadly, that's gone along with most of the manufacturing the _master of our universe_ legislated out from underneath us 

They want us weak, vunerable, fighting among each other....The only way out is the same road the elites took to get us in this position, legislation, oversight, collectivist action...and as much as folks don't wish to hear it... governmental control 

~CS~


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Not only do I _not_ shop on Black Friday, I won't leave my house; it's a madhouse out there.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Yes , well i gotta say i'm really put off by mass insanity myself MM :whistling2:

But yanno, there's a lot of beat down workers looking for a support protesting that day ,not to mention BB's link of millions who also ought to think on it as well...:thumbsup:

To me, it's all a gilded age redux 

And common ground

even...._<gasp>_ on ET 


~CS~


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

EBFD6 said:


> My tax dollars being wasted on prevailing wage projects to "level the playing field" for the unions benefit is much better.


. I agree. And thank you.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Not a real person are you? Some people need a job that aren't as smart as you to be a lectrission . You go..


Unless they are truly mentally challenged they can better themselves if they put forth the effort.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Unless they are truly mentally challenged they can better themselves if they put forth the effort.


Some are. You been to Walmart in your town? They work you 39 hours a week here. No benefits. I think u can buy stock though:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Yes , well i gotta say i'm really put off by mass insanity myself MM :whistling2:
> 
> But yanno, there's a lot of beat down workers looking for a support protesting that day ,not to mention BB's link of millions who also ought to think on it as well...:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


CS, You truely have a better insight to the issues than most. Kudos.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Some are.


So it is a good deal for them.




> You been to Walmart in your town? They work you 39 hours a week here. No benefits. I think u can buy stock though:laughing:


And when these same folks worked for the mom and pop shops Walmart replaced did they get bennifits or have anyplace to rise to?


Everyone likes to vilify Walmart and I can understand that but. I also know that things were not that rosey before they showed up.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> Yes , well i gotta say i'm really put off by mass insanity myself MM :whistling2:
> 
> But yanno, there's a lot of beat down workers looking for a support protesting that day ,not to mention BB's link of millions who also ought to think on it as well...:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


I have no idea what you just said.....


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> I have know idea what you just said.....


Few sane people do.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> I have know idea what you just said.....


It's "no" idea. Perhaps a bad grammer ban for you as well.:laughing:


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

big2bird said:


> It's "no" idea. Perhaps a bad grammer ban for you as well.:laughing:


Please don't change my spelling. Are you crooked? Seems like something you might do.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Please don't change my spelling. Are you crooked? Seems like something you might do.


Corrected, not changed. (If possible).


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

BBQ said:


> So it is a good deal for them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your quite the humanitarian. Many of these people go home proud just like you do at the end of your day.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

I'd rather pay double for everything in any wal mart. The workers really need to talk to some local organizers and get the ball rollin. They employ a lot of people that could have a lot of strength.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

They've tried Chris

Walmart will simply shut any given store down & move

So they're off to provoke some change on the fed level

I'm amazed at some of the parallels between these _wage slaves _of 2013, and those who fought the same basic fight around 1913

~CS~


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

$3.7 billion

That is Walmart's third quarter profit in 2013.

$150 billion

The six heirs to the Walmart fortune are the wealthiest family in the world.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

If you don't want to work at walmart you don't have to.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

eejack said:


> $3.7 billion
> 
> That is Walmart's third quarter profit in 2013.
> 
> ...



And your point is?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

MTW said:


> And your point is?


No point at all. I just find the whole Walmart plantation model fascinating.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

eejack said:


> No point at all. I just find the whole Walmart plantation model fascinating.


White slavery?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

big2bird said:


> White slavery?


Really? Your comparing working at walmart with slavery? You should just go shoot yourself.


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## Mich drew (Mar 3, 2013)

Rich get richer. Poor get poorer. The working mans wages are on a race to the bottom. First one there loses and so will the rest of us.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Really? Your comparing working at walmart with slavery? You should just go shoot yourself.


 Wow. Didn't see that coming.:laughing::laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Mich drew said:


> Rich get richer. Poor get poorer. The working mans wages are on a race to the bottom. First one there loses and so will the rest of us.


Sooner or later the queens will realize without the worker bees, the hive will die.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Here's the _state of the hive_ addy>




~CS~


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

big2bird said:


> Wall Mart is just the greediest corp. on earth,....


It didn't used to be that way. Before Sam died, there was more than one story of a WalMart cashier working 20+ years and retiring a millionaire (due to shared stock in the company).


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Few sane people do.


Rut Roh, I understand most of what Steve says (and tend to agree). 

I guess I have to question my sanity?  :laughing:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Wal Mart is the perfect example of capitalism. They are one of the best if not the best at this game our capitalistic society that has been created.

If you are dissing Wal Mart, you are dissing our economic model.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

All the monopolizers ,conglomerates and consortiums are grand examples of capitalism , be them big box stores, banks, or whatever is capable of _exponential_ growth and acquisition(s).

Yet perhaps in the pristine and unrestricted sense of the definition, China stands out (economically speaking) of late as the winner of the capitalist, if not free market kewpie doll. 

There's a state who'll back up any venture, regardless of how much it may poison ,pollute, or abuse it's worker bees. 

If one is capable of focus on their economic system _alone_, it's really like traveling thru the wayback machine to view 1875-1900 America 

~CS~


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Here's the _state of the hive_ addy>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eye opening CS. The even sadder part is this new generation of Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, and Carnegies use this wealth to influence our government. If you think they got that wealthy without doing that very thing, then your head is in the sand.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Rut Roh, I understand most of what Steve says (and tend to agree).
> 
> I guess I have to question my sanity?  :laughing:


Yes, you should. 


Steve is only one I keep on my ignore list. This is due to the fact he never has a positive thing to say about anything and his instance on posting in gibberish trying to appear witty and sophisticated.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

big2bird said:


> Henry Ford, also a big union hater would have paid more. He wanted all his employeese to be able to afford a Model T. He introduced the $5.00 day when that was UNHEARD of. He understood the balance of paying a good wage, and getting a good days pay.


That is actually untrue and a spin put on it by the media at the time. He raised wages to keep employees and no more. 

The following quote comes from the Ford corporate web site, the last people who would want to disparage Henry SR.



> The $5-a-day Workday
> 
> After the success of the moving assembly line, Henry Ford had another transformative idea: in January 1914, he startled the world by announcing that Ford Motor Company would pay $5 a day to its workers. The pay increase would also be accompanied by a shorter workday (from nine to eight hours). While this rate didn't automatically apply to every worker, it more than doubled the average autoworker's wage.
> 
> *While Henry's primary objective was to reduce worker attrition—labor turnover from monotonous assembly line work was high—newspapers from all over the world reported the story as an extraordinary gesture of goodwill.*


http://corporate.ford.com/news-center/press-releases-detail/677-5-dollar-a-day




> Wall Mart is just the greediest corp. on earth, and as a taxpayer, I pay all their employees food stamps and health care to subsidize THEIR profits. It makes me sick to my stomach.


Let me ask you to really think on this.


Did the mom and pop shops that were replaced by Walmart provide better pay, bennifits and room for advancement than Walmart does?

I dislike Walmart as well but lets not pretend everything was rosey for workers doing those jobs before Walmart came in.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

BBQ said:


> > Steve is only one I keep on my ignore list.
> 
> 
> Apparently not....
> ...


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

There's LOTS of reasons to hate Walmart.

I wish there was a Costco near me. I shop primarily at Meijer; things cost a little more, but they're a better company _and_ provide better customer service.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Interesting articles MM....:thumbsup:~CS~


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

big2bird said:


> White slavery?


Slaves had value. Walmart employees have none.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> Slaves had value. Walmart employees have none.


If Walmart never existed at all, where would those workers be working and how would they be treated?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Wal Mart is the perfect example of capitalism. They are one of the best if not the best at this game our capitalistic society that has been created.
> 
> If you are dissing Wal Mart, you are dissing our economic model.


Actually, they are an example of socialism. Most of the employees require government benefits to survive. In a capitalist system, Walmart would have to pay more.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

eejack said:


> Slaves had value. Walmart employees have none.


More bologna.

Walmart employees are paid well for what they do. 

A person sets their value dependent on many things, including how hard they work and how much ambition they have. You wouldn't know that because after 30 years of union brainwashing you only think of yourself and all other workers as an exact equal number with a predetermined value that doesn't have any real world basis.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

eejack said:


> Actually, they are an example of socialism. Most of the employees require government benefits to survive. In a capitalist system, Walmart would have to pay more.


No, they wouldn't. In a capitalist society those people would have to have enough ambition to get a second job and then work towards getting a better job, or else they would starve.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> If Walmart never existed at all, where would those workers be working and how would they be treated?


No idea - other retailers perhaps. In manufacturing ( destroyed by Walmart purchasing in China ) perhaps. A lot of perhaps, because we cannot determine how different our economy would be without the detrimental effect of super cheap foreign goods flooding our marketplace.

Walmart used to be a pro-America company.


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

BBQ said:


> If Walmart never existed at all, where would those workers be working and how would they be treated?


Obviously they would be brain surgeons or rocket scientists. What else would you expect someone with no skills, no education, and no ambition or desire to better themselves to do? 

Oh yeah, they would also be qualified to be politicians. That doesn't take much skill or knowledge, just a desire to milk the taxpayers and the ability to do nothing and get paid for it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> No idea - other retailers perhaps.


A very likely idea.

And those retailers where generally small companies, often family owned, certainly not union with the workers getting low pay, few benefits if any, little chance to move up the ladder etc.

Now like I said, I am not fond of what Walmart has become and hat it has caused but it's foolish to think that if they had not existed workers would be in better shape.



> In manufacturing ( destroyed by Walmart purchasing in China ) perhaps.


Certainly Wal-marts buying practices have resulted in closed factories, I don't like that either. I don't have a solution for that, I am sure you believe you do.




> A lot of perhaps, because we cannot determine how different our economy would be without the detrimental effect of super cheap foreign goods flooding our marketplace.



The selling of goods drives the economy, hard to imagine that less sales would help the economy. 

More people are involved in selling 100 products for $10 than are in selling 10 products for $100.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

DIYer4Life said:


> Walmart employees are paid well for what they do.


It's not so much about the pay, as the end run on full time employees. Many employers are cutting people to under 40 hours, and hiring more to fill in to prevent from paying benefits, a way of paying less for more.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

big2bird said:


> It's not so much about the pay, as the end run on full time employees. Many employers are cutting people to under 40 hours, and hiring more to fill in to prevent from paying benefits, a way of paying less for more.


Yet all of those people are still making more money than if they were working at little mom & pop stores in the area that everyone complains how Walmart put out of business.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

DIYer4Life said:


> Yet all of those people are still making more money than if they were working at little mom & pop stores in the area that everyone complains how Walmart put out of business.


And you know this how?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> What else would you expect someone with no skills, no education, and no ambition or desire to better themselves to do?


Merit shop electrician. It's full of them.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

big2bird said:


> Merit shop electrician. It's full of them.


Ouch


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

big2bird said:


> And you know this how?


Because I know that Walmart pay considerably above minimum wage for most jobs and mom & pop stores are usually minimum wage or a very little above.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Merit shop electrician. It's full of them.


And they could get their share of lazy, break taking sacks of **** from the union hall


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

big2bird said:


> It's not so much about the pay, as the end run on full time employees. Many employers are cutting people to under 40 hours, and hiring more to fill in to prevent from paying benefits, a way of paying less for more.


Big2bird, Do you work a full 2080 hours per year. Most of the union guys I know work about half a year and then suck off the unemployment for the other half. How is that any different than walmart?
Yea yea, I know you pay into unemployment. Do unions pay in more than they collect? I doubt it.
Is that really any different than the unions being exempted from obamacare.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

big2bird said:


> Merit shop electrician. It's full of them.


You are seriously delusional.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Certainly Wal-marts buying practices have resulted in closed factories, I don't like that either. I don't have a solution for that, I am sure you believe you do.


I don't have a solution. I believe that tariffs would probably work but it has been a long time since we had them and with the economy being so screwed up by wall street I honestly don't know what they would do to get around them.



BBQ said:


> The selling of goods drives the economy, hard to imagine that less sales would help the economy.
> 
> More people are involved in selling 100 products for $10 than are in selling 10 products for $100.


But in walmart's case much of the money leaves the country...hence the rise of china and the collapse of the American middle class.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Big2bird, Do you work a full 2080 hours per year. Most of the union guys I know work about half a year and then suck off the unemployment for the other half. How is that any different than walmart?
> Yea yea, I know you pay into unemployment. Do unions pay in more than they collect? I doubt it.
> Is that really any different than the unions being exempted from obamacare.


Walmart employees earn less than the poverty level.
https://www.google.com/#newwindow=1&q=walmart+employees+below+poverty+line&safe=off

Many of which are on welfare
https://www.google.com/#newwindow=1&q=walmart+employees+on+welfare&safe=off

( I provided the google links so you can pick and choose which lefty biased source of propaganda suits you best :laughing: ).


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> And they could get their share of lazy, break taking sacks of **** from the union hall


Wrong again, but we knew that already.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

eejack said:


> Walmart employees earn less than the poverty level.


You are trying to make it out like Walmart is doing something wrong.

In reality, those same people would be making the same amount or less no matter where they were working.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Yea yea, I know you pay into unemployment. Do unions pay in more than they collect? I doubt it.
> Is that really any different than the unions being exempted from obamacare.


Wow, where to start. I know, lets use facts.
The employer pays into unemployment.'The unions do not, so you are confused as usual.
The state collects more than is despenses, so yes, they collect more than I do when off. The excess goes into the Calif. general fund.
Different than Obamacare? I don't understand the very vague reference.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Wrong again, but we knew that already.


Do you have anything to back that up?

I am correct there big turd


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

DIYer4Life said:


> You are trying to make it out like Walmart is doing something wrong.
> 
> In reality, those same people would be making the same amount or less no matter where they were working.


Maybe not. Roping houses pays better. So. Cal is full of Mexicans doing just that. How hard can it be?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Wow, where to start. I know, lets use facts. The employer pays into unemployment.'The unions do not, so you are confused as usual. The state collects more than is despenses, so yes, they collect more than I do when off. The excess goes into the Calif. general fund. Different than Obamacare? I don't understand the very vague reference.


Huh???


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> I am correct there big turd


If you ever get anything correct, I'll faint.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Maybe not. Roping houses pays better. So. Cal is full of Mexicans doing just that. How hard can it be?


So cal is also full of liberals , which is why we can't wait until the big quake and it slides into the ocean.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

big2bird said:


> Maybe not. Roping houses pays better. So. Cal is full of Mexicans doing just that. How hard can it be?


What point are you trying to make?

Those people at Walmart in the low paying jobs would be in similar low paying jobs whether Walmart was there or not.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> If you ever get anything correct, I'll faint.


You are not even entertaining


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Huh???


Go back to the kids table son. The adults are trying to hold a conversation here.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

DIYer4Life said:


> What point are you trying to make?


Did you go to school with robnj? I bet you did, huh?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Did you go to school with robnj? I bet you did, huh?


:sleeping:


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

big2bird said:


> Go back to the kids table son. The adults are trying to hold a conversation here.


Then how did you get in

Big for turd

You are like b4t 's special cousin


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

This thread has gone down hill quickly. 

IBTL!


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

big2bird said:


> Did you go to school with robnj? I bet you did, huh?


So you were making no point and now you will just insult me? I see. Good show...


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> This thread has gone down hill quickly. IBTL!


 why does that surprise anyone ? There's a common denominator for all threads here that go south . I'll keep the answer to myself , lol !


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## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

So any one going to join the picket line


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

big2bird said:


> Go back to the kids table son. The adults are trying to hold a conversation here.


You should be banned for statements that are demeaning and have nothing to do with the thread


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> You should be banned for statements that are demeaning and have nothing to do with the thread


This is coming from someone who told me to shoot myself?


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

eejack said:


> This is coming from someone who told me to shoot myself?


He also told his wife that I was fuffy. He definitely deserves a timeout.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

fuffy or fluffy?


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> fuffy or fluffy?


Fuffy.


Foofy.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Walmart attempts at unionization 1970 to present

the Good, Bad and the Wal-mart



> As the nation’s largest retailer, second-largest corporation, and largest private employer (with 1.3 million workers), Wal-Mart made headlines this past year at an unprecedented rate. All too often, these headlines revolved around Wal-Mart’s infamous employment practices.
> 
> While Wal-Mart isn’t the only big box store criticized for its policies, it has become a symbol for much of what is wrong with employers. Wal-Mart reported a net income of over $11 billion last year—surely plenty of money to remedy some questionable workplace practices—yet stories persist about wage law violations, inadequate health care, exploitation of workers, and the retailer’s anti-union stance. Altogether, some 5,000 lawsuits are filed against Wal-Mart each year, or roughly 17 suits per working day.
> 
> ...


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Do you have anything to back that up?
> 
> I am correct there big *turd*


You really have to act like an internet bully? Why do you have to call names? There are different views by people from all of the country (and some of the rest of the world). Not everyone agrees. Name calling lowers the level of discussion.

And yea, I know it's not just you (and I admit to doing it and when I was called on it, stopped).

Yea yea, I know, construction work, from New Jersey, why should I expect any different? It's the job that makes you that way? :no:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

EBFD6 said:


> This thread has gone down hill quickly.
> 
> IBTL!


Yea, making MH site look a lot better.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

This thread is racist.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

sbrn33 said:


> This thread is racist.


Shut yo mouth cracker!


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

hardworkingstiff said:


> You really have to act like an internet bully? Why do you have to call names? There are different views by people from all of the country (and some of the rest of the world). Not everyone agrees. Name calling lowers the level of discussion. And yea, I know it's not just you (and I admit to doing it and when I was called on it, stopped). Yea yea, I know, construction work, from New Jersey, why should I expect any different? It's the job that makes you that way? :no:


Oh yea and like the other guy and his buddy haven't been throwing insults, calling names, saying demeaning things, off topic cheap shots?

Why is it that it's ok for some but when it gets returned people get all asshurt and offended?

Go bother the other guy and get off my nuts, oh wait that's right, the other guy is a " brother"


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Oh yea and like the other guy and his buddy haven't been throwing insults, calling names, saying demeaning things, off topic cheap shots?
> 
> Why is it that it's ok for some but when it gets returned people get all asshurt and offended?
> 
> Go bother the other guy and get off my nuts, oh wait that's right, the other guy is a " brother"


I know you will deny it but you post more insults than anyone else on this forum.

What's more it seems you only post to insult, I don't see you making helpful posts. 

Go back and read this thread, it stayed pretty damn cilvi until you joined in which is when I bailed out.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

BBQ said:


> I know you will deny it but you post more insults than anyone else on this forum.
> 
> What's more it seems you only post to insult, I don't see you making helpful posts.
> 
> Go back and read this thread, it stayed pretty damn cilvi until you joined in which is when I bailed out.


Hmmm lets see here

Well I count 12 negative,insulting comments PRIOR to my first post on this thread.

Post # 74 really is what started it, but it was getting out of hand even before that.

Big Turd loves to start ****, when others ( not just me ) give it back to him, out come the tears

When you start peeing standing up maybe you will stop crying


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> Hmmm lets see here Well I count 12 negative,insulting comments PRIOR to my first post on this thread. Post # 74 really is what started it, but it was getting out of hand even before that. Big Turd loves to start ****, when others ( not just me ) give it back to him, out come the tears When you start peeing standing up maybe you will stop crying


 what are you like 5 ? That's like a pee wee Herman argument " I know you are , but what am I " ? Who cares who started what , why does it always have to get nasty ? I mean I understand you're from jersey , and most of us that live here are pissed about that , but the constant back and forth insults ( and no , it's not just you ) , is really turning this forum into Facebook type drama scenario , than any kind of informative outlet for professionals . I have no problem with you personally ( I probably will now ) , just voicing my opinion , which may or may not mean much to you ? I personally don't care , lol !


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

drumnut08 said:


> what are you like 5 ? That's like a pee wee Herman argument " I know you are , but what am I " ? Who cares who started what , why does it always have to get nasty ? I mean I understand you're from jersey , and most of us that live here are pissed about that , but the constant back and forth insults ( and no , it's not just you ) , is really turning this forum into Facebook type drama scenario , than any kind of informative outlet for professionals . I have no problem with you personally ( I probably will now ) , just voicing my opinion , which may or may not mean much to you ? I personally don't care , lol !


And what are you a woman? :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Instead of getting all butt hurt don't read a thread if you are too sensitive.

I am not pissed about living in NJ. I like it here, I live in a good part though. I'm not up to my eyeballs in liberals like Hax.

And I am not angry. I enjoy coming in here and telling liberals and union pukes what I think of them.

If anything I say offends someone Tough ****.... :thumbup:

And I do contribute, several guys pm me for help, I have helped plenty of guys especially with the inspectors in NJ.

Most of the threads on actually work I find boring.

or crazy like mobile trailer zapping... I mean there ain't no helping that guy


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

robnj772 said:


> And what are you a woman? :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: Instead of getting all butt hurt don't read a thread if you are too sensitive. I am not pissed about living in NJ. I like it here, I live in a good part though. I'm not up to my eyeballs in liberals like Hax. And I am not angry. I enjoy coming in here and telling liberals and union pukes what I think of them. If anything I say offends someone Tough ****.... :thumbup: And I do contribute, several guys pm me for help, I have helped plenty of guys especially with the inspectors in NJ. Most of the threads on actually work I find boring. or crazy like mobile trailer zapping... I mean there ain't no helping that guy


 nah , last time I checked , I've still got a set hanging ( not directed toward you hax ) . I'm not offended at all and I usually do ignore these type threads . I was just curious why they need to get to that level ? Once it gets to the " where do you live " , or " I'll meet you in a parking lot of your choice " , that's a little ridiculous ! Not saying you started that , but in general , it just seems there's more of a bullying type nature going on here lately ? Just an observation and nothing to get in a twist over though . I generally check my feelings at the door before I log on here , lol .


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Jeeze, you guys are all over me today!!! 






:laughing::laughing:


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## sparky402 (Oct 15, 2013)

Why do so many people not get along on here. Hopefully this dont start any hate towards me :joking:


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

sparky402 said:


> Why do so many people not get along on here. Hopefully this dont start any hate towards me :joking:


The problem usually occurs when one know it all disagrees with another know it all and neither of them can fathom that there might actually be an instance where one of them may be wrong. So they bicker back and forth for a few posts until eventually the personal insults and vulgarities come out and ultimately one or both of them get banned. At this point they create new user names and the cycle begins again.:laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

EBFD6 said:


> The problem usually occurs when one know it all disagrees with another know it all and neither of them can fathom that there might actually be an instance where one of them may be wrong. So they bicker back and forth for a few posts until eventually the personal insults and vulgarities come out and ultimately one or both of them get banned. At this point they create new user names and the cycle begins again.:laughing:


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

WHAT HE SAID, and I have been there, GUILTY


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

brian john said:


> :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> WHAT HE SAID, and I have been there, GUILTY


I'm the biggest Azzhole ET has, ask anyone i've gone toe/toe with here

But on this issue i would ask some level of solidarity

There's a war on labor in America you see, the captains of commerce see all labor as inconsequential losers, doesn't matter if your even from....NJ! 

In fact, there has never been a divide so great since the gilded age , which btw, they justified the then _'wal-mart level workers'_ as losers deserving of their fate fellas

Thing is, sh*t rolls down hill & gains speed

Especially when funded by certain factions that want to see it roll over us worker ants

So, just who are you _swingin' _for? Yeah i know you might not want to be a union advocate because you're buttsore about them having an upper hand (or buying one) now & then

But so what when it comes to these box store slaves, don't they deserve some respect? We got a shot at the brass ring thru a lotta history here, they should be granted no less imho

~CS~


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> I'm the biggest Azzhole ET has, ask anyone i've gone toe/toe with here
> 
> But on this issue i would ask some level of solidarity
> 
> ...


Well worded. 
Even the Chinese workers whom have benfitted from the global shift in manufacturing are now insisting on forming unions, as they can see it's their only hope for a decent way of life.
Perhaps a reboot of the entire labor movement is due. 
All I know is this country, whether union-non union, red/blue state, morals, whatever, is divided as much as when the civil war broke out.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Well I tend to think that wages etc. for electricians are headed nowhere but up. Just read some of the trade magazines. There's a severe shortage of help in the trades which translates to higher wages. If Wal-Mart paid a higher wage they probably would attract a different class of people to work there. A number of other retailers have employees that dress neatly, look respectable, and actually act like they care about the customer. I'm sorry but I wouldn't hire anyone from our local Wal Mart. Call me prejudiced if you want to but you're going to have to get your act together if your going to make a higher wage. Anyone with any job skills at all should be able to find a job somewhere else that pays higher than Wallyworld.:whistling2: Basically, what the union wants is for Wal Mart to pay a non-skilled worker, skilled worker wages. Oh, and it just might be that they want to get in the worker's pockets too!


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

big2bird said:


> All I know is this country, whether union-non union, red/blue state, morals, whatever, is divided as much as when the civil war broke out.


It's funny you mentioned this. I was thinking the same thing earlier today. I then started thinking that the civil war was just a hundred and fifty years ago (in round numbers). I started thinking how far we have come in that 150 years. Went from black power guns to the stuff we have today.

We ran the Indians out of the west and into reservations after the civil war.

100 years ago we had not entered WWI.

Pretty amazing what has happened in the last 100 years.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

*WalMart holding a food drive for it's own employees.*

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/walmarts-employee-food-drive-reveals-120012647.html


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

big2bird said:


> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/walmarts-employee-food-drive-reveals-120012647.html


Your version is spinning like a top, Bird.

The true version is

*Wal Mart employees hold food drive for other Wal Mart employees.*

Are you crazy enough to believe that Wal Mart themselves would hold a food drive for their own employees? :no::no: What kind of food do you suppose they collected???? Care to speculate!!
.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

wendon said:


> *Wal Mart employees hold food drive for other Wal Mart employees.*


That's better. Everything is A okay,right?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

big2bird said:


> That's better. Everything is A okay,right?


Wouldn't your union hold a food drive for one of your fellow brethren?? With Wallyworld it might be like who's holding a food drive for whom???:laughing:
BYOT Bring your own Twinkies!:laughing:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/ashton-kutcher-vs-walmart-173543025.html


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

big2bird said:


> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/walmarts-employee-food-drive-reveals-120012647.html


we were talking about this at lunch today. nice.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

wendon said:


> Your version is spinning like a top, Bird.
> 
> The true version is
> 
> ...


hopefully they shopped at a local grocer instead of SUPERWALLYWORLD. WHY ISNT THERE A SMILEY FACE WITH A little CAPE?


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

screw walmart.

I shop costco. Same price, and they pay their help decent.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

mr hands said:


> screw walmart.
> 
> I shop costco. Same price, and they pay their help decent.


Hi, steven


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## Shock-Therapy (Oct 4, 2013)

But doesnt Walmart have good deals on those colored thingamajigs you screw on the ends of wires?


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