# sub-panel in a restroom



## subelect (Nov 25, 2007)

I know that 230 prevents installing a service entrance in a restroom, but does that also mean that a sub-panel is not allowed in a restroom?

A new owner had us install some lights, fans and repair outlets. The building is ancient; about 18' wide and 45' long. The previous owners' remodeled/extended the restroom and a sub-panel is inside the room. 
Does the sub need to be relocated?
Thanks,
Rick


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Overcurrent devices are not allowed in dwelling unit bathrooms, if it is not a dwelling unit you are all set.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here is the article that Bob got his info from.



> *240.24 Location in or on Premises.*
> (E) Not Located in Bathrooms. In dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, overcurrent devices, other than supplementary overcurrent protection, shall not be located in bathrooms.


And here is the article the OP referred to.



> *230.70 General.*
> (1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
> *(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms.*


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## electrocop (Sep 6, 2009)

*electrical panel sub panel in restrooms*

If you see the definition in the nec for bathroom is one that contains a lavy and a water closet if it contains only a lavy or only a watercloset without a lavy its not a bathroom. Working in the modular school building line of work the answer is yes we always install electrical panel boxes in toilet buildings for schools it is acceptable and not a code requirement s the n.e.c. clearly states rule applys only to dwelling units. What (dsa) DIVISION OF THE STATE ARCHITECT DOES REQUIRE if the electrical panel is installed in a Elementary restroom it requires a lock on panel box deadfront cover so no youngster will temper or have access to the electrical source of panel box. sincerely Jose A Guillen the Inspector.:thumbup:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here is the Draft of the 2010 NEC ROP's. If finalized the wording will change to this:

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Bathroom. ​An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a urinal, a tub, a shower, a foot bath, a bidet, or similar plumbing fixtures.​

Click to expand...

*


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## electrocop (Sep 6, 2009)

*N.e.c. Definition of a bathroom*

Thank you MR. Dennis i got your message of the bathroom definition. Over at the plant where i work the wording is always restroom i guess because they are to serve the public bathroom is for only occupant use as in a residence. is my understanding.:thumbup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Here is the Draft of the 2010 NEC ROP's. If finalized the wording will change to this:


 






Why do they do that?? Call themselves clearing somethig up,,,and then add words like "similar plumbing fixture",,,,,,,so a hose bib is a "similar fixture"?? Why don't they just put it in black and white


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Why do they do that?? Call themselves clearing somethig up,,,and then add words like "similar plumbing fixture",,,,,,,so a hose bib is a "similar fixture"?? Why don't they just put it in black and white


I don't know. There are many words like that in the NEC that are just so subjective.

The 2010 ROP draft is requiring that GFCI must be readily accessible. I think that is a good change.

Here is another interesting one. Now remember these are not definite as yet but have a good chance of making it in the 2011.

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210.52(I)  Foyers. Foyers that have an area that is greater than 60 ft2 shall have a receptacle(s) located in each wall space as defined in 210.52 (A)(2)(1)

Click to expand...

*


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I don't know. There are many words like that in the NEC that are just so subjective.
> 
> The 2010 ROP draft is requiring that GFCI must be readily accessible. I think that is a good change.
> 
> Here is another interesting one. Now remember these are not definite as yet but have a good chance of making it in the 2011.


 


I can definately see that making it in. I have had several inspectors try and require a receptacle in such areas even if they are less than ten feet long. I consider it a hallway, they consider it wallspace, but this will require it anyway


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Here is the article that Bob got his info from.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the article the OP referred to.


What is supplementary over current protection?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> What is supplementary over current protection?


This is defined in article 100



> Supplementary Overcurrent Protective Device. A device intended to provide limited overcurrent protection for specific applications and utilization equipment such as luminaires and appliances. This limited protection is in addition to the protection provided in the required branch circuit by the branch circuit overcurrent protective device.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> What is supplementary over current protection?


 


We installed mitsubishi split units and the HVAC guy had one in the bathroom, on the unit,it had a breaker. I had to go through this exact article to show him that breaker was "supplemantal" to the originating breaker


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> What is supplementary over current protection?


Things like the breaker in some plug strips.




> *Supplementary Overcurrent Protective Device.* A device intended to provide limited overcurrent protection for specific applications and utilization equipment such as luminaires and appliances. This limited protection is in addition to the protection provided in the required branch circuit by the branch circuit overcurrent protective device.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> We installed mitsubishi split units and the HVAC guy had one in the bathroom, on the unit,it had a breaker. I had to go through this exact article to show him that breaker was "supplemantal" to the originating breaker


Okay, thanks, I didn't think of that. Are those units any good?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Okay, thanks, I didn't think of that. Are those units any good?


 

They seem to perform fine, but I don't know enough about them to really judge.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> They seem to perform fine, but I don't know enough about them to really judge.


I've been looking into them for my cabin...Thanks for the info.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I've been looking into them for my cabin...Thanks for the info.


 
I can definately see it as an advantage if there's nowhere to put an airhandler


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I can definately see it as an advantage if there's nowhere to put an airhandler


 It would be hard to place ductwork; It would be under the cabin and the building is up on short concrete stilts that would allow the varmits to tear it up.


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