# Dead end 4 way with extended switch leg



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I really suspect this is a DIY adventure as you're using terminology that's totally foreign to what even a 1-st year apprentice would be using.


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## Ajay612 (Oct 25, 2015)

? I am a 3rd year and every word I used I have learned from my boss over the last 3. What aren't you understanding?


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## Ajay612 (Oct 25, 2015)

Dealing with a 4 way there are obviously 2 3 ways (end of hall and bottom stair) connected at the top by a 4 way. The power for said switching is in the box at end of hall along with the switch leg to lights as well. (Wire that goes to light?) A 3 wire to connect it to top of the stair. So 3 wires in it ( 14-2/14-2/14-3 ) top of stairs then has a 3 wire from hall 3 way and a 3 wire drop to bottom stair.. Making that the 4 way.. Bottom stair is dead ended. I don't know how else to explain. R/w obviously means red white when talking about travelers.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

For me, it helps if I sit down and draw things out on a piece of paper. That tells me if I have enough conductors. Then it's just a matter of making the correct splices.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The wiring method has enough wires to do the trick. Either you have a bad switch or it is wired incorrectly.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

With existing wiring, _anything_ is possible, including all the 'old school' ways of wiring. Like Carter, California, Illinois, Farmer, Power Beyond, Travelling Bus, Chicago (et al) 3-ways.

If you understand how 3- and 4-way switches function, then it's just a matter of using a meter to determine where the supply is, how to route it to the common to the first 3-way, the travellers to the 4-way and on to the other 3-way, and bring the switch leg back to feed the light.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The wiring method has enough wires to do the trick. Either you have a bad switch or it is wired incorrectly.


If all the wires are there, maybe the switch is wired incorrectly. Not all four ways are the same in terms of the screws that correspond to X and = .


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Face the truth kid, your parents never did hold much hope for you ever , and now you are confirming their fears for them....... :laughing: :jester:


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## Ajay612 (Oct 25, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> Face the truth kid, your parents never did hold much hope for you ever , and now you are confirming their fears for them.......


? Ok bud, you just troll electrical forums degrading people? Sounds fun!


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Ajay612 said:


> ? Ok bud, you just troll electrical forums degrading people? Sounds fun!


:laughing: kind of fits your post Mikey. :thumbsup:

You just have to let Mike roll off you, he's a bit crazy.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Ajay612 said:


> ? Ok bud, you just troll electrical forums degrading people? Sounds fun!


He lives in Hawaii...... what do you expect with his salt-air-corroded mind? :laughing:


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Ajay612 said:


> ? Ok bud, you just troll electrical forums degrading people? Sounds fun!


He was trying to give you a lough, considering you are pulling your hair out trying to figure out this issue.

How many wires are in the dead end box, just a 3 wire? if that is the case a 4 way will not work there because you have 3 wires and the 4 way has 4 posts.

Any time you use a 4 way it must be in between 3 ways.

Your dead end box must be a 3 way.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

See if this helps. My bet it is in the 4 way. Depending on the brand the travelers can land in different position. Take them off the switch and splice color to color and see if he system works correctly.


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## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Isolate the switch leg to the light, then isolate the hot. All you have left is the travelers. Hook up the travelers first. Then the rest is process of elimination. If in doubt, use a meter to confirm operation of the 4 way.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Ajay612 said:


> My parents are doing some updating so I am re devicing their home. Their 3 ways and 4 haven't ever worked properly because they have had single pulls in. Here is my problem. With power and switch leg in box at end of hall along with 3 wire to top stair, and a 3 wire dead end drop to bottom stair 3 way. This should indicate R-W travelers but its staying constantly on or not at all on. Anybody help?


What color are the wires that are wired together in the 4-way box that has the 2 3-wire cables in it?


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## ELECTRICK2 (Feb 21, 2015)

Ajay612 said:


> My parents are doing some updating so I am re devicing their home. Their 3 ways and 4 haven't ever worked properly because they have had single pulls in. Here is my problem. With power and switch leg in box at end of hall along with 3 wire to top stair, and a 3 wire dead end drop to bottom stair 3 way. This should indicate R-W travelers but its staying constantly on or not at all on. Anybody help?


A sparky you are not.
Get someone who knows `lectricty to give you a hand. Or go to DIY site:thumbup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Ajay612 said:


> ? Ok bud, you just troll electrical forums degrading people? Sounds fun!


Check my post time. I wake up in the middle of a Saturday night at 4:00 am when one of my prodigny come in after his all niter someplace and I get a bit '' curt'' and less willing to let youth be youth..........:thumbsup::laughing:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> See if this helps. My bet it is in the 4 way. Depending on the brand the travelers can land in different position. Take them off the switch and splice color to color and see if he system works correctly.


Dennis' drawing will screw up a newbie. That extra dot on the first three way is really a wire nut not a terminal on the switch. Hot comes in there and goes all the way to the deadend three way.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Just wire it correctly so it's not wrong.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

480sparky said:


> He lives in Hawaii...... what do you expect with his salt-air-corroded mind? :laughing:


Try coconut concussions. :laughing::laughing:

It's the risk you take when waiting for the fruit to fall. 

It's also why Hawaiians_ know_ patience. :laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

telsa said:


> Try coconut concussions. :laughing::laughing:
> 
> It's the risk you take when waiting for the fruit to fall.
> 
> It's also why Hawaiians_ know_ patience. :laughing::laughing:


Or he spent 7 years on an uncharted island with Gilligan.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Or he spent 7 years on an uncharted island with Ginger and MaryAnn.



Fify.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Fify.



You do realize I can easily change it to Skipper and Mr Howell? :laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> You do realize I can easily change it to Skipper and Mr Howell? :laughing:


And then I could easily stick in the names of the real women I spent my time with on the islands............ most of em memorable, some not so...


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

I shouldn't have to say it but have seen it more than a few times:

If that 4/way switch has off and on markings, it's not a 4/way switch, it's a double pole.

If you feel that it might be the wiring at 4/way causing problems, take out switch and wire nut appropriate combinations, if 3/ways now operate normally use a 4/way switch in place of the wire nuts.


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## gryczewskip (Oct 27, 2015)

Ring out the travelers

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


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## Jmcstevenson (Sep 11, 2010)

These guys are right, isolate your SL and hot then just play around You obviously don't have a great grasp of switching but the good news is spending a few hours (worse case) will likely result in a better understanding and feeling of accomplishment. It's how I learned.


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