# What should i do if I don't land an apprenticeship?



## cvelec96 (Jul 7, 2014)

Im a high school graduate seeking a job as a first year apprentice. Ive applied with the IEC and haven't found a job yet because most companies in my city want apprentices with experience. I also have an interview with the JATC in a month. If neither work out, what is the best thing to do? There is a community college in my city that offers an electrical certificate. Would this help me out? Or should i just take a job as a helper for a while?


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

cvelec96 said:


> Im a high school graduate seeking a job as a first year apprentice. Ive applied with the IEC and haven't found a job yet because most companies in my city want apprentices with experience. I also have an interview with the JATC in a month. If neither work out, what is the best thing to do? There is a community college in my city that offers an electrical certificate. Would this help me out? Or should i just take a job as a helper for a while?


Do all of the above, and take a helpers job if you can get one while you're waiting for JATC.

Good luck and welcome to the forum....:thumbsup:


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## LouieCO (Jul 13, 2014)

I'm just about to start my apprenticeship and i'm 22. I wish I would have thought of this when i was eighteen, i'd be a damn journeyman by now!!


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

I do not understand the philosophy of not hiring green apprentices. The difference between the average first year apprentice and a green horn is minimal. I can get all but the dumbest up to snuff in 30 days, maybe less.

Keep knocking on doors. Sell your self.

Also look into the IBEW!


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## danhasenauer (Jun 10, 2009)

Green Apprentices are a huge crapshoot for an employer. Is this person comfortable and capable with tools, hand and power? Does this person have any issues we don't know about? Taking on an Apprentice is a commitment from an Employer, they want to be sure of who they are investing in (and not just financially). If you can develop a history of being a good helper somewhere, it will go far in helping you climb the career ladder. Book smarts count for a lot, but, field experience is priceless. Good luck!


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

if you don't get your apprenticeship you should go dump in your sleep


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

danhasenauer said:


> Green Apprentices are a huge crapshoot for an employer. Is this person comfortable and capable with tools, hand and power? Does this person have any issues we don't know about? Taking on an Apprentice is a commitment from an Employer, they want to be sure of who they are investing in (and not just financially). If you can develop a history of being a good helper somewhere, it will go far in helping you climb the career ladder. Book smarts count for a lot, but, field experience is priceless. Good luck!


I can tell a good green horn from a slug in a few days, if you can't cut in the field the books are worthless. 

I believe the drop out rate would be cut down considerably if they had to work 3-6 months before becoming full fledge apprentices.


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## danhasenauer (Jun 10, 2009)

Bad Electrician said:


> I can tell a good green horn from a slug in a few days, if you can't cut in the field the books are worthless.
> 
> I believe the drop out rate would be cut down considerably if they had to work 3-6 months before becoming full fledge apprentices.


Agreed. It would be even lower if they had to have a taste of Non-Union employment as well.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

danhasenauer said:


> Agreed. It would be even lower if they had to have a taste of Non-Union employment as well.


Why would you have to take a post with no negativity and throw a comment in that is sure to draw this into another Union VS Open Shop.

I have worked for 44 years as an electrician and worked open shop for 8 years and saw little difference between the two other than my benefits.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Take a job as a helper or a laborer. A college diploma would mean almost nothing to me as an employer. Construction experience on a resume is much more valuable, even if it's just cleaning up garbage.


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## Phatstax (Feb 16, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> Why would you have to take a post with no negativity and throw a comment in that is sure to draw this into another Union VS Open Shop.
> 
> I have worked for 44 years as an electrician and worked open shop for 8 years and saw little difference between the two other than my benefits.


See everyone! This is a perfect example of union vs non-union being a non-issue. 36 years closed and 8 years open and he saw little difference between the two, especially his benefits! Now, can we all please be friends again???


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## thekid (Jun 2, 2014)

I did the opposite, I got a great opportunity to get into the union when I was 18 and turned out last year. I'm 24 now and starting school to get my PLC/ automation training in and specialize. If I hadn't gotten into the apprenticeship my plan was to join the military and try and learn a trade that way. Either way don't give up.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

cvelec96 said:


> Im a high school graduate seeking a job as a first year apprentice. Ive applied with the IEC and haven't found a job yet because most companies in my city want apprentices with experience. I also have an interview with the JATC in a month. If neither work out, what is the best thing to do? There is a community college in my city that offers an electrical certificate. Would this help me out? Or should i just take a job as a helper for a while?


...continue to try and get into the union, but in the mean time, work for a non union shop and try to convince other workers to join the union


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## TungstenRebel (Feb 8, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> I do not understand the philosophy of not hiring green apprentices. The difference between the average first year apprentice and a green horn is minimal. I can get all but the dumbest up to snuff in 30 days, maybe less.
> 
> Keep knocking on doors. Sell your self.
> 
> Also look into the IBEW!


I hate to play the generational card, but boomers and unions alike have spent decades trying their best to not hire newbies (thinking it more profitable to let someone else do the training or to restrict membership). Well what happens when everyone has that mentality? 

Young people not developing job skills (especially in the trades!) or starting out later in life is really kicking our country's economy in the ass right now and has been for years. This started a long time ago.

I agree with what you're saying. With a month on the job (20-22 work days) you can take a greenhorn and teach them A LOT. The learning curve goes upward very quickly. A guy with a year of experience can maybe do double what a guy with a month can do. A guy with 4 years experience can do maybe double what a guy with 1 can do. People learn quick and as long as you're not hiring druggies, criminals, or just complete knuckleheads then training someone from scratch might actually prove beneficial.

But I do understand an employer's worry, that someone they trained up *might* seek to work for another company. But there's a solution to that: as someone gains job skills, gains technical knowledge of the job, learns how to work with and be friendly to builders/homeowners, knows what materials to look for/use, and is all around more valuable an employee....well then friggin pay your now-more-experienced employees a more to keep them in the company!


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

TungstenRebel said:


> In
> But I do understand an employer's worry, that someone they trained up *might* seek to work for another company. But there's a solution to that: as someone gains job skills, gains technical knowledge of the job, learns how to work with and be friendly to builders/homeowners, knows what materials to look for/use, and is all around more valuable an employee....well then friggin pay your now-more-experienced employees a more to keep them in the company!


I am a union contractor in the Washington DC area, our firm does some specialty work, I have no problem training men and if I cannot retain them after they learn 
what and how we do what we do, then I am doing something wrong.

After year one the average man apprentice/helper can work side by side with a JW and the productivity should be close to equal. Generally we are not really doing production but work that requires two or more men.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

99cents said:


> Take a job as a helper or a laborer. A college diploma would mean almost nothing to me as an employer. Construction experience on a resume is much more valuable, even if it's just cleaning up garbage.


I usually have bits of_ 'college guy'_ in my stool....:jester: ~CS~


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

cvelec96 said:


> Im a high school graduate seeking a job as a first year apprentice. Ive applied with the IEC and haven't found a job yet because most companies in my city want apprentices with experience. I also have an interview with the JATC in a month. If neither work out, what is the best thing to do? There is a community college in my city that offers an electrical certificate. Would this help me out? Or should i just take a job as a helper for a while?


I would do both. The work experience is important in that it shows you understand what you are getting into, and can in general be a responsible employee. School is also a good option, but don't go crazy trying to take a bunch of classes; a good apprenticeship program will pay for your education. 



360max said:


> ...continue to try and get into the union, but in the mean time, work for a non union shop and try to convince other workers to join the union


Umm… doesn’t sound like a great idea. What credibility would a young kid who has never done electrical work, much less never been a part of the union have? Sounds like a good way to make your new co-workers dislike you.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I would go to college if I could do it all over again.
Law school after college.

Not to knock trade work. But I can honestly say if I had to do this again knowing what I know now, I would be John Valdes Esq. today.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

You can join the Navy,











See most of the world. 









Do exciting electrical work while wet. 









Work on weapon systems. 









It's so much fun even them Canadians are getting into it.


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Join the Air Force. AFSC 3E0X1.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> You can join the Navy,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


dude, that is some funny sh!t lol


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

wildleg said:


> dude, that is some funny sh!t lol


I enjoyed my time at sea. 









Just remember, on the flight deck, 
No One Can Hear You Scream.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

> :
> Originally Posted by 360max View Post
> ...continue to try and get into the union, but in the mean time, work for a non union shop and try to convince other workers to join the union



Michigan Master


> Umm… doesn’t sound like a great idea. What credibility would a young kid who has never done electrical work, much less never been a part of the union have? Sounds like a good way to make your new co-workers dislike you.


I do not follow your logic?


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## LouieCO (Jul 13, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> Michigan Master
> 
> 
> I do not follow your logic?


lol sounds trollish


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

LouieCO said:


> lol sounds trollish


Michigan noooo he is a good contributor to the forum.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Bad Electrician said:


> I do not follow your logic?





LouieCO said:


> lol sounds trollish


Get your foot in the door anywhere you can, even non-union, even if you are just pushing a broom, and continue trying to get into the union - yes, all good advice. It's the last part I was referring to.



360max said:


> ...continue to try and get into the union, but in the mean time, work for a non union shop and try to convince other workers to join the union


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Michigan Master said:


> Get your foot in the door anywhere you can, even non-union, even if you are just pushing a broom, and continue trying to get into the union - yes, all good advice. It's the last part I was referring to.


:thumbsup:



> Originally Posted by 360max View Post
> ...continue to try and get into the union, but in the mean time, work for a non union shop and *KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT*


MM

I fixed it.


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## egruhadfio (Jul 21, 2014)

Bad Electrician said:


> Michigan noooo he is a good contributor to the forum.


He? :whistling2:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

egruhadfio said:


> He? :whistling2:


SHE or IT???? I can hardly tell through my PC


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

:confused1:


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

egruhadfio said:


> It's always the opposite in the real world. They always find out that the loudest guy calling others gay is the one found in the rest stop bathroom blowing dudes. http://www.electriciantalk.com/f17/too-*******-70826-post1318976/#post1318976


Okay, I think I might now understand what you’re trying to tell us...


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## LouieCO (Jul 13, 2014)

I meant the union post seemed trollish, i don't know how I ended up quoting what I quoted


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