# control jobs- finding them?



## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

hey guys ive done hvac controls with my previous company i am now out on my own and am doing old work resi and small commercial work. i know and am very good with the controls but dont know how to go about finding control work or linking up with the right type of mechanical groups to get subbed the control work.


any suggestions on where to go or how to go about finding the right fit????

taking any and all comments


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

LERelec said:


> hey guys ive done hvac controls with my previous company i am now out on my own and am doing old work resi and small commercial work. i know and am very good with the controls but dont know how to go about finding control work or linking up with the right type of mechanical groups to get subbed the control work.
> 
> 
> any suggestions on where to go or how to go about finding the right fit????
> ...


Check with some electric motor shops. Most shops I've worked in had a control shop.


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## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

I hate to rain on your parade, but Ive been in controls for a long time, and there really is no money in it. The only way to make real money with electrical things these days is to become a lineman for a A-list power company or union.


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## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

Tackdriver said:


> I hate to rain on your parade, but Ive been in controls for a long time, and there really is no money in it. The only way to make real money with electrical things these days is to become a lineman for a A-list power company or union.


maybe where your from but here in mass its a select type of work and not every electrician knows how to do it. plus when your an excellent electrician that provides excellent quality and service with supperior skills you can make money and charge accordingly


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Why not give manufacturing a shot. There's alot going on, depending on the process. I have worked industrial in house for most of my career.
With your control background, you should be able to find a job in a factory. Good pay and benefits are another reason to check.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Tackdriver said:


> I hate to rain on your parade, but Ive been in controls for a long time, and there really is no money in it..


You should speak for yourself. I worked for a controls company for 8 years and I know they made out like bandits.....


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## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> Why not give manufacturing a shot. There's alot going on, depending on the process. I have worked industrial in house for most of my career.
> With your control background, you should be able to find a job in a factory. Good pay and benefits are another reason to check.


I own my own business and want to install control circuits for building automation systems


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Tackdriver said:


> ...and there really is no money in it....


This is news to me.


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## MattMc (May 30, 2011)

Cotrols command a pretty good buck where I'm from. I have done alot of hvac controls with 2 different comanies and both companies have done very well in that business. If you know plcs, motors, welders, vfd's or robotics you can use that in factories. There is some good money in small automotive plant construction jobs setting up new pieces of equiptment and stuff if you know people in a plant that is strongly producing.


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## MattMc (May 30, 2011)

Also you can use building automation tie lights into automation systems using occupancy sensors and control them using the same systems you are using for the hvac controls. You just need to find comanies that are looking for installers, if you can do the commisioning too even better. Trane, delta,seimens,carrier and others will sometimes hire contractors to do the work when they are overloaded.


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## randy.wagner (Jun 21, 2011)

Now is the time, summer-time has a glut of work. If you're lucky, somebody needs an experienced EC, RIGHT NOW.

There's no time to bid it, go T&M. At least you'll have fun, maybe get in on upcoming small jobs.

I got two school jobs starting next week, after abatement.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

You cannot confuse "industrial controls" with "building automation (HVAC) controls", they are two separate disciplines. If you came to me when I was running a control panel shop with HVAC controls experience, I would have passed on you because I would have to de-program you from things that you were used to doing in building automation that are completely different from industrial controls.

What you may want to do is market yourself to smaller mechanical contractors that don't have their own internal controls group. There are a LOT of those kinds of outfits out there and they often pass up work because they don't have a way to cover all the bases on a project. You can even get your name out to HVAC equipment suppliers because they sometimes sell direct to end users who have no clue how to make stuff work and have to find someone on their own. Then they start calling random electricians in the phone book who may not know anything about building automation but won't admit it and everyone gets in trouble. Saying that you specialize in it removes a lot of the risk factor for them.

Good luck.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

LERelec said:


> I own my own business and want to install control circuits for building automation systems


I did not know that.



JRaef said:


> You cannot confuse "industrial controls" with "building automation (HVAC) controls", they are two separate disciplines. If you came to me when I was running a control panel shop with HVAC controls experience, I would have passed on you because I would have to de-program you from things that you were used to doing in building automation that are completely different from industrial controls.
> 
> What you may want to do is market yourself to smaller mechanical contractors that don't have their own internal controls group. There are a LOT of those kinds of outfits out there and they often pass up work because they don't have a way to cover all the bases on a project. You can even get your name out to HVAC equipment suppliers because they sometimes sell direct to end users who have no clue how to make stuff work and have to find someone on their own. Then they start calling random electricians in the phone book who may not know anything about building automation but won't admit it and everyone gets in trouble. Saying that you specialize in it removes a lot of the risk factor for them.
> 
> Good luck.


When in manufacturing and I needed a guy that could work with controls, I would not pass on an HVAC guy over a construction guy. If I asked both to draw a stop/start/jog circuit during an interview, I would expect the HVAC guy to know how to draw it. I could not expect a construction guy to know how to draw it.
I get your point because they are different disciplines. But a good control guy (HVAC or Ind) could step in and be a help right away.


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## mrmike (Dec 10, 2010)

Being a retired industrial Electrician , Controls & wiring were being my favorite part of it the job & I was wondering this myself. I just built a Lighting control panel with contactors, etc. for some tennis courts............and made me think it would be a good thing to pursue if the opportunity would be there...... Good luck !!!


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## MattMc (May 30, 2011)

Your right they are abit different. But a good controls guy, or electrician with good background in controls, can do either industrial, or Building automation/hvac controls off of a set of prints. The factory, or hvac equiptment usually does the programming and or commisioning while you stand by and help if they have problems with your work. Installing controls is not all that much different the principles are the same, some of the practices are abit different. However stick to what you are good at or comfortable with. Getting in with a manufacturer of equiptment and istalling their stuff is a good way. Bidding new construction jobs is another good way, offering B.A.C. retrofits, to bring old systems to a more efficient standard is another good way. Alot of places will want to save money on utilities through updating from pneumatic control systems, and older stuff. However there are so many fields of business involved in controls you'll have to pick what is best suited for you and bid and or advertise accordingly. Good luck


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## randy.wagner (Jun 21, 2011)

If a building is still on pneumatics, that's sad.

Its time to get busy retrofitting the first and second-generations of BAS controls. Those systems coincidentally do alot of E-P control, as they tookover the pneumatic control, but still power a pneumatic device.


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## MattMc (May 30, 2011)

You still see systems like that out there, it's time to retrofit them all.


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## LERelec (May 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the good info please keep it coming


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I've got 3 jobs that I'm bidding the fuel portion of systems that feed boilers and emergency generators. There is often control work involved in these that falls on the fuel installer. Most fuel installation companies will sub out this control work.

So, if you want to go after this kind of work, you need to find the people that do this stuff and make contact and relationships. 

We have and EC that pretty much is him and a helper and he does almost all of our electrical work her in NC and his sons run the business down in Fl. The guy is fast, and from what I see he makes a pretty penny off of us. He does such a good job for us, the VP of construction has no desire to use my credentials to start doing our own electrical work.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

John Valdes said:


> I did not know that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


absolutely HVAC/R is a very timid and resourceful application of more than one trade and most control guys understand principality and will be able to see all drawings and schematics and make use of them ........... at least i do.............



and if you are looking to grow your own business you need to find ONE customer who can net 30-50 % of your business .
also are you gonna concentrate on installing and starting up the systems?

or just maintenance and repairing? these two have very different applications of being successful , they are two entirely different beasts. 


and i would find a construction company thats building manufacturing operations as john said.

are you open to going international?


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

steelersman said:


> You should speak for yourself. I worked for a controls company for 8 years and I know they made out like bandits.....


its like anything else .......... a balancing act, ............
sometimes i rejoice , sometimes i look for the splinters left after a good a s s beating!


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

Prophet said:


> bms is a good thing to be into. its all about progress. you start of as an electrician doing houses and then you move on to production stuff and then to the next level and so one. BMS is good and its something you get beter at though time.
> 
> PS does any one here have modbus tables they can shier with me. thanks:thumbsup:


are you trying to drive steelersman insane? :jester: :laughing:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LERelec said:


> Thanks for all the good info please keep it coming


 
Why not get in contact with a supplier such as Industrial Controls that sells Honeywell and Johnson and see if they can't put you in touch with a company that subs stuff out or maybe an end user (BoE or Med group) that may need some help? Never hurts to know the counter guys at supply houses.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

mrmike said:


> Being a retired industrial Electrician , Controls & wiring were being my favorite part of it the job & I was wondering this myself. I just built a Lighting control panel with contactors, etc. for some tennis courts............and made me think it would be a good thing to pursue if the opportunity would be there...... Good luck !!!


 Mike, I hear you on that. I once upon a time wanted to start a panel shop. Working along with an EC or Manufacturer. Just build the panels and let the installers run the pipe and terminate at the terminal strip. Then go in for the start up. 

I came to find out back then it was almost impossible when you have a Carter & Crawley in the same area. In fact one of my vendors told me there was a small basement type shop in my neighborhood. They bought temperature controllers and sensors from him.
It could work if you had a customer base. Maybe build from that base?


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## bullmike (Jun 13, 2011)

There are still jobs out there although more for automation then for machine operrators. There is not as many but the ones out there in East Mass. & RI are in need of " control work".


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## David Pailley (Oct 5, 2011)

*Getting Into The ACT*

There are a number of ways to get into the act. 1st --- see what industrials are in the area and make their facilities managers and engineers aware of your ability. Many operation do not keep adequate staff anymore and out source the work. I have some control panel operators get some good OEM work with as many as 200 panels to build.
2nd- -- let private engineers know of you...many of them just like deisgning not into the building part of it.
3rd Systems integrators .... many like to our source the panel building 
4th Government such as Municipal Water waste water , Military Contractors, and Untility Companies
5th Let the distributers and manufacturer agents and reps aware of you ...they may even let you set up a table at one of their open houses
6th browse the internet for listings of solicitation inventations


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

David Pailley said:


> There are a number of ways to get into the act. 1st --- see what industrials are in the area and make their facilities managers and engineers aware of your ability. Many operation do not keep adequate staff anymore and out source the work. I have some control panel operators get some good OEM work with as many as 200 panels to build.
> 2nd- -- let private engineers know of you...many of them just like deisgning not into the building part of it.
> 3rd Systems integrators .... many like to our source the panel building
> 4th Government such as Municipal Water waste water , Military Contractors, and Untility Companies
> ...


David, where in Calif. are you ?


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## David Pailley (Oct 5, 2011)

*Location*

Los Angeles


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## Wriggs (Jun 9, 2012)

Call you local Johnson Controls office and inquire about being a sub for them, there always looking for subs. Around here there is not enough of them and they are all slammed with work.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Tackdriver said:


> I hate to rain on your parade, but Ive been in controls for a long time, and there really is no money in it. The only way to make real money with electrical things these days is to become a lineman for a A-list power company or union.


Speak for yourself, I love my job. Its not uncommon for us to be on a job and have the electricians inquire if we are hiring. Our last new hire came from a job site in which we did the controls for and he was employed by the EC doing the line voltage. He was actually the foreman for the EC. He got a raise in pay when he came on board...


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## Wriggs (Jun 9, 2012)

That has also happened to me too many times to count!


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

You guys do know this thread is over a year old?


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## Wriggs (Jun 9, 2012)

Yup, thought it wouldn't hurt if anyone else looked up this thread like I did.


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## TheGolfingTradesman (Sep 5, 2012)

I_get_shocked said:


> Speak for yourself, I love my job. Its not uncommon for us to be on a job and have the electricians inquire if we are hiring. Our last new hire came from a job site in which we did the controls for and he was employed by the EC doing the line voltage. He was actually the foreman for the EC. He got a raise in pay when he came on board...


So what kind of pay scale we talking for a controls electrician?
I've always loved the control aspect, and its time for me to decide where this career takes me.


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## Mr.C (Dec 20, 2009)

$32 to $43 seems to be usual rate at the sites I go to. A little OT will get you to six figures but you may not get your 7 off in a row each month and you'll be working more than 14 days each month.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Wriggs said:


> Yup, thought it wouldn't hurt if anyone else looked up this thread like I did.


Didn't hurt one bit my friend. Thanks.

I know Johnson controls and Honeywell keeps a bunch of small time contractors for The small jobs that are mostly T&m. They use the big guys for bId jobs and new construction.
I saw how this worked when a did a lot of FA work at my old company.

If I could learn a little bit of controls , id be knocking on their door in a heartbeat looking for the small jobs and retrofit work.


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## wdestar (Jul 19, 2008)

This is not a direct answer to the original posters question, but it might help in directing the question.

The amazing thing about the electrical field is how diverse it has become. When one talks about controls, I think "logic". If - and/or - then. It's totally different than the installation of wiring or troubleshooting the problems relating to - of which I'll disqualify myself.

I have read many posts on this forum where members pretend to be experts in all fields and I have to say that - being 53 years old - I've yet to live long enough to deem myself an expert in any one field. Let alone, several.

Getting back on subject, if you truly have a hand on controls (logic), then you are heading for a career of promise.


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## KevinKM (Oct 8, 2012)

Control Jobs are coming open more and more in the natural gas industry. There are more treating plants and compressor stations now with all the shale plays that are in service. Check Louisiana and South Texas they have a lot of work going on. Most control techs work on Recip engine controls using logic as well as Turbine controls using logic. PID Loops, Industrial controls such as MCC's, and repairing Motor Control. Any good background in any one of these will get you a good foot in the door.


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## qckrun (May 18, 2009)

Look for a city, county or special district job dealing with fresh water and/or waste water treatment plants. Some plants/agencies will hire people with limited to no knowledge on controls and teach them. It's worth a look and an option.


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