# kitchen toe kick heater



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Just a question . Does it need to be gfci protected like bathrooms. If so can it get tagged off the counter outlets


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

GFI requirements do not mention toe kick heaters. Why would you think that they would need to be gfi? Even a receptacle outlet down in a toe kick in the kitchen does not need to be gfi protected unless it is a kitchen in a "not" a dwelling.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> GFI requirements do not mention toe kick heaters. Why would you think that they would need to be gfi? Even a receptacle outlet down in a toe kick in the kitchen does not need to be gfi protected unless it is a kitchen in a "not" a dwelling.


It was directly under the sink base. I thought about leaky plumbing soaking it and the floor in front of it. So I tagged it off the counter circuit.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

You guys don't need dedicated circuits for kitchen counter receptacles?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Shockdoc said:


> It was directly under the sink base. I thought about leaky plumbing soaking it and the floor in front of it. So I tagged it off the counter circuit.


That's technically a violation.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

99cents said:


> You guys don't need dedicated circuits for kitchen counter receptacles?


Yes, two 20-amp circuits are required for counter and dining room receptacles. There are no rules on how they can be divided up.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

This makes no sense. He is concerned about GFCI protecting an illegal circuit.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

99cents said:


> This makes no sense. He is concerned about GFCI protecting an illegal circuit.


:blink::001_huh:


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

Sinks are a hot topic


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

BBQ said:


> :blink::001_huh:


Well, he is concerned about protecting the heater in case water spills on it but he wants to connect it to a kitchen receptacle circuit, which is a violation. That makes no sense.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I just installed two and I ran a dedicated line for them . I would never tap off the kit recept... if its a 120 v unit it probably draws 6 amps at the least.... I would be pissed if I was that customer and my toaster is suddenly tripping on sunday morning...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Only receptacles need to be GFCI protected in a bathroom or kitchen.. a kick heater is direct wired..


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Come on man, you're going to connect what is probably a 1.5 kW heater to a 20A receptacle circuit? Facepalm.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The heater cannot be on the small appliance branch circuit. It is that simple. A kick space heater is a direct wired piece of equipment.


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## owl (Oct 31, 2012)

Counter SA circuits can have clock outlets and chit that powers igniters/clocks for counter mounted stuff. That's about it. 210.52(B)(2)


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Just put it on a 15a circuit in smurf tube


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

What is the brand and model number of the heater? Some can be run on 220.
What about the dishwasher/fridge/disposal circuits?
If it has an optional cordest or internal protection/thermestat bay you may have more options, depending on draw; most of the ones I do are hydronic.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> It was directly under the sink base. I thought about leaky plumbing soaking it and the floor in front of it. So I tagged it off the counter circuit.


Never put the toe kick heater in the sink base. You end up burning up the misses toes. It's the one location where you must stand for long periods in place and becomes quite uncomfortable. I've had to clip elements in them to lower the heat output so the women(HO) could wash dishes.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Doc, are you talking about a hydronic or electric toe kick heater?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Lets all see if you can guess the one member here who has not hooked up a heater ever, even though I used to live in that extremely cold place otherwise known as Florida. I didn't even know they had "toe kick" heaters. That's kinda neat. I do know they got butt hole warmers built into toilet seats in Japan. Some of them play a tune for you also.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i live where its cold 4-5 months. never seen a toe kick heater, except the one connected to the furnace.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Lets all see if you can guess the one member here who has not hooked up a heater ever, even though I used to live in that extremely cold place otherwise known as Florida. I didn't even know they had "toe kick" heaters. That's kinda neat. I do know they got butt hole warmers built into toilet seats in Japan. Some of them play a tune for you also.


Biobidet is now a regular stock item at Menards.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

backstay said:


> Never put the toe kick heater in the sink base. You end up burning up the misses toes. It's the one location where you must stand for long periods in place and becomes quite uncomfortable. I've had to clip elements in them to lower the heat output so the women(HO) could wash dishes.



What no ******** to do the dishes? :whistling2:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

electricmanscott said:


> What no ******** to do the dishes? :whistling2:


I don't understand your post.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

This is a hydro toe kick. Fan only, draws about.75 amp.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

MTW said:


> Doc, are you talking about a hydronic or electric toe kick heater?


hydronic pete, the plumber choose the location and I only learned of it during the final. I have a spare 15 amp ckt under the sink but didn't want to waste a gfci on it when it has such a minut draw .


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Shockdoc said:


> hydronic pete, the plumber choose the location and I only learned of it during the final. I have a spare 15 amp ckt under the sink but didn't want to waste a gfci on it when it has such a minut draw .


In that case I would have connected it to the SABC too.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MTW said:


> In that case I would have connected it to the SABC too.


Me too. And I have. Or the dishwasher, disposal, lighting, anything close by.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> This is a hydro toe kick. Fan only, draws about.75 amp.


Those are nice to wire into a 120 or 140 degree aquastat so when the local switch is closed the fan will come on everytime the circulator pump runs. When the circulator stops after the water cools the auqastat will stop the blower automatically without having to run a control cable all the way back to the boiler relay. 

It also gives you a nice delay so you use up the heat capacity of the water instead of the blower stopping when the pump stops with hot water still in the line.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

markore said:


> Those are nice to wire into a 120 or 140 degree aquastat so when the local switch is closed the fan will come on everytime the circulator pump runs. When the circulator stops after the water cools the auqastat will stop the blower automatically without having to run a control cable all the way back to the boiler relay.
> 
> It also gives you a nice delay so you use up the heat capacity of the water instead of the blower stopping when the pump stops with hot water still in the line.


I see this often on commercial unit heaters.. Thermostat calls - opens the HW valve then Aquastat makes and the fan comes on


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

They are very popular out here with remodel jobs , nobody wants a steel hydronic baseboard in their bathrooms and many fill all thier kitchen walls up with cabinetry.


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## markore (Dec 7, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> nobody wants a steel hydronic baseboard in their bathrooms


Beacon Morris recessed wall insert kit.








I've cut out entry holes for an additional register and supply in the backside top and bottom to hit two rooms back to back from a single unit in one 4" studbay.









Beacon Morris 120 degree aquastat.
I heard a guy say in a review that he found a better one from another company which makes better contact with the pipe than the wonky clip on this one, but he didn't say which one he found.









Floor vectors in front of sliding glass doors... sweet.


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