# occupancy sensor switches



## sooners713 (Feb 1, 2010)

Does anyone know if the NEC allows occupancy sensors in electrical rooms. The gear is 480/277 and 208/120 and could be up to 1200A. I don't think that it is a good idea but I can't find anywhere in the NEC that would not allow this. Lights are being left on and the company is trying to be as efficient as possible. I just need a second opinion to show the bosses of the company. Seems like the lights could potentially go off while the gear was being worked on.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*occupancy sensor*

If the code does not DISALLOW it, I would say it is optional. If you in there and the lights go off...get out of the chair and go to work, or clap your hands.


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## sparky.jp (May 1, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> If the code does not DISALLOW it, I would say it is optional. If you in there and the lights go off...get out of the chair and go to work, or clap your hands.


I can see the TV ad now:

Scene 1: electrical maintenance person enters equipment room, claps hands once, lights come on

Scene 2: worker briefly working

Scene 3: worker leaving the room, claps hands twice, lights go off

Get your *Industrial-Clapper(tm)* today! :laughing:


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

You are NOT allowed to use occupancy switches in electrical rooms. See NEC 110.26(D):



> .... In electrical equipment rooms, the illumination shall not be controlled by automatic means only.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> You are NOT allowed to use occupancy switches in electrical rooms. See NEC 110.26(D):



yes,but don't the occ. sensors have override switches on them?And if they do,then there legal right?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> yes,but don't the occ. sensors have override switches on them?And if they do,then there legal right?


SOME of the device mounted occupancy sensors do, and they would be code-compliant.

I've been working, off and on, on energy saving projects for a pretty big 6 building office campus. What we've done in the electrical rooms is keep the wall switch, but added a device-mounted pilot light on the exterior, above the door, wired into the light. When night janitorial, or whoever, sees the light on, they can unlock the door and turn off the light if it got left on. It was really the only reasonable option, in my estimation.

P&S 2151-RED:









We did change the keyless lampholders in the electrical rooms to a fixture that will only take PL lamps, so if they do get left on, it will only be burning a few watts versus hundreds of watts.

One item we had considered, but ruled out due to cost, was a switch with the same keyway as the keyway in the door to the electrical room. The idea being that if the person doing work in there was given a key to the electrical room, they'd then use that same key to turn on the lights. They'd have to turn off the lights to retrieve the key to return it to building management. These key switches are about 100 bucks a pop in the Kwikset or Slage keyways.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> SOME of the device mounted occupancy sensors do, and they would be code-compliant.
> 
> I've been working, off and on, on energy saving projects for a pretty big 6 building office campus. What we've done in the electrical rooms is keep the wall switch, but added a device-mounted pilot light on the exterior, above the door, wired into the light. When night janitorial, or whoever, sees the light on, they can unlock the door and turn off the light if it got left on. It was really the only reasonable option, in my estimation.
> 
> P&S 2151-RED:



I have seen that done before,I thought it was a good idea.:thumbsup:The last job I was on had O.S. spect but the foreman ordered the ones with the override switches,no problems from the inspector.I didn't really care for them though.Much prefer snap switches myself,personal preference I guess.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

A Kirk-key light switch.....I like that idea!

What'll they think of next?!?

Rob


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

micromind said:


> A Kirk-key light switch.....I like that idea!
> 
> What'll they think of next?!?
> 
> Rob


Sort of. I started to spec a Locknetics switch. They're field-convertable to momentary action, which means you have to leave the key in the switch to leave the lights on. (they don't spring return to off). Heck, for all I know, Kirk probably does make something you can use for a light switch, but I'm sure you'd pay dear for it. I think Kirk uses strictly Medeco keyways, so you wouldn't be able to have it keyed the same as the door anyhow.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Wind up timer..


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

How about some lights are on 24/7 but the majority 90% are on an occupancy sensor. That way you are never completely in the dark. In a lot of situations we had a few lights on the emergency circuit that are unstitched on a separate emergency panel. You don't need to get that fancy but it is something to think about.


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

O.S. in any mechanical room is a bad idea. Who has ever gone in one to work and have the lights go out because you were behind a boiler or other large piece of equipment? Then you have to try and trip the sensor without banging your head on a pipe or tripping over a pump. O.S. may work if there were more sensors installed to cover the blind spots.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

drsparky said:


> How about some lights are on 24/7 but the majority 90% are on an occupancy sensor. That way you are never completely in the dark. In a lot of situations we had a few lights on the emergency circuit that are unstitched on a separate emergency panel. You don't need to get that fancy but it is something to think about.


They do hallways in office buildings and apartment buildings like that a lot. Seems like the fixture(s) that are on 24/7 are the one's with burned out lamps that go undiscovered until the occupancy sensor craps out. The fixture that is on 24/7 is often the fixture with the emergency ballast in it. Double trouble, for the same reason.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I don't see a problem with OC sensors in those rooms. How many times are you in such a room and standing perfectly still?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> I don't see a problem with OC sensors in those rooms. How many times are you in such a room and standing perfectly still?


If the idea is energy savings, those lights would have to get left on an awful lot to pay for the occupancy sensor hardware. The ROI would be incredibly long.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> If the idea is energy savings, those lights would have to get left on an awful lot to pay for the occupancy sensor hardware. The ROI would be incredibly long.


Tax credits are available for all energy-saving equipment installed these days. I've seen occupancy sensors in broom closets.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> Tax credits are available for all energy-saving equipment installed these days. I've seen occupancy sensors in broom closets.


Very true, but it seems like it's getting harder and harder to find businesses that need tax credits. That's sorta what's holding up commercial solar at the moment. If the economy were in better shape (and it will be, one day), the energy savings and PV projects are going to get even easier to sell to commercial customers, since they'll have a more legitimate need for the tax credit. I think the sale of SREC's is the only thing making commercial PV viable at the moment, unless the business happens to also need the tax credit.


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

It's more about "looking" like your company cares.. I've installed sensors in rooms that have 50W of CFLs in them.. Pay back in 50 years? 
In as much as I have motions and photo cells on four fixtures in my house..
1 Washroom.. 30W t5 fixture.
2 Washroom.. 3X 16W CFLs 
3 Front Porch light 18W CFL
4 Rear yard light 18W CFL 
Added to that I have a timer on my back porch light also a 18W CFL
My best savings comes from a wind up timer 0-60 min on a 100W halogen aimed at the pool

Good thing most (if not all) devices came from demo jobs


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