# What happened to klein?????



## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Well i have just started buying my tools back since all of mine were stolen out of my truck. i purchased a pair of the angle head ***** and side cutters. the ***** brand new first day i had them the cutting edge gaped on 16 gauge wire and the handles were off center making one handle look longer than the other. the side cutters well to make a long story short i now know the dipped handles even slip off. I starting to go to ideal, wiha, and knipex. i hate to leave klein because of how long i have owned them and used them but i am not going to spend 30 dollars on a tool that craps out in one day.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I haven't had any problem with my klein tools.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

i didnt used to idk maybe its just my luck first i have 4000 dollars worth of tools stolen then insurance wont give me a cent now im buying them all back my run of luck has been awful. its just my old kleins were great and held up real real good and now everything i buy from them just doesnt cut it


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Klein still makes good tools, there are just a lot more options out there these days. Much of it comes down to personal preference. 

Take back the ones you just purchased, they're definitely defective.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> i didnt used to idk maybe its just my luck first i have 4000 dollars worth of tools stolen then insurance wont give me a cent now im buying them all back my run of luck has been awful. its just my old kleins were great and held up real real good and now everything i buy from them just doesnt cut it


 I bet you would like to find whoever stole them in a dark alley.:whistling2:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I bet you would like to find whoever stole them in a dark alley.:whistling2:


You have no idea


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

and i did take them back and i received new pairs for both


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> You have no idea


 I can only imagine.:bangin::2guns:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I can only imagine.:bangin::2guns:


Yes sir thats how we do it here in Texas LMAO:thumbsup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> Yes sir thats how we do it here in Texas LMAO:thumbsup:


 All yea, ya'll put them to death quick or drag them down the street don't yall?


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

william1978 said:


> All yea, ya'll put them to death quick or drag them down the street don't yall?


hahahaha depends on the day but yes lol but out of all seriousness what those idiots did in jasper was uncalled for. a little off the topic though lol


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> hahahaha depends on the day but yes lol but out of all seriousness what those idiots did in jasper was uncalled for. a little off the topic though lol


 I agree with you on that.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

william1978 said:


> All yea, ya'll put them to death quick or drag them down the street don't yall?


hahahaha depends on the day but yes lol but out of all seriousness what those idiots did in jasper was uncalled for and gives us real honest texans a bad image they deserve to rot in prison for what they did. that was a little off the topic though


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

my bad on the double post my internet kinda froze up for a second there


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> hahahaha depends on the day but yes lol but out of all seriousness what those idiots did in jasper was uncalled for and gives us real honest texans a bad image they deserve to rot in prison for what they did. that was a little off the topic though


 I agree with you on that.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> my bad on the double post my internet kinda froze up for a second there


Hell I did it also.:laughing: It happens from time to time when you are looking at several threads.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Hell I did it also.:laughing:


I see that :laughing: But back on topic how have klein screwdrivers been holding up? I love the 11 in 1 and 10 in 1 and 5 in 1 i will always buy klein for those but what about those journyman screwdrivers? what is the difference between those and the yellow ones? i loved the regular screwdrivers i had


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

The 11 in 1 and 10 in 1 I haven't had any luck with. I like the Lenox one better.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

that is what a lot of people i work with use is the lenox how do the nutdrivers on it hold up?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> that is what a lot of people i work with use is the lenox how do the nutdrivers on it hold up?


 They held up just as good as the rest of the screwdriver, and is 10 times better than the klein one for sure.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

william1978 said:


> They held up just as good as the rest of the screwdriver, and is 10 times better than the klein one for sure.


really? the biggest problem i have is rounding out the nutdrivers on them looks like i am going to have to give lenox a try


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bduerler said:


> really? the biggest problem i have is rounding out the nutdrivers on them looks like i am going to have to give lenox a try


 Yea, I would destroy a klein 10 in 1 in just a coulple of days, but the lenox one lasted for about 1 1/2 years before it broke and it was used every day.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

dang that sounds like my type of screwdriver!!!!


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

I have a Klien 10 in one and it has held up decent. I take the handle off and put the shaft in my cordless drill. It drives #10 screws with no issue. It makes changing from philips head to flat VERY fast. Sometimes I slap a small rare earth magnet on the side to hold my screw(s). :thumbsup:

I keep the handle in my pouch just in case I want to use it as a regular screwdriver.


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## Tulbox (Sep 11, 2009)

I hear that a lot any more.too bad. Try Knipex...they are at Lowe's in the electrical aisle. PS..I work for Knipex


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I've honestly never had a problem with my klein 10 in 1 and I bought it 2 years ago.

You don't use it as a banger...do you?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

i basically just use my 10n1 as a nut driver and I do use it as a beater regularly.
(banger,hehe)


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## r_merc (Jul 5, 2008)

*bah*

Klein used to be my tool of choice but now I have been buying more Ideal hand tools and Knipex. The Ideal Ratch-a-nut is absolutely my favorite multipurpose driver ever.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

r_merc said:


> Klein used to be my tool of choice but now I have been buying more Ideal hand tools and Knipex. The Ideal Ratch-a-nut is absolutely my favorite multipurpose driver ever.


http://toolmonger.com/2009/10/28/ideal-ratch-a-nut/
Using a tool to tighten a wire nut? That's a new one on me. :blink:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

rdr said:


> http://toolmonger.com/2009/10/28/ideal-ratch-a-nut/
> Using a tool to tighten a wire nut? That's a new one on me. :blink:


forget what company it was (maybe Ideal) but I used to get a wire nut tightner thingamajig that you could chuck on your drill with large bags of reds. tried that technique exactly one time.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> forget what company it was (maybe Ideal) but I used to get a wire nut tightner thingamajig that you could chuck on your drill with large bags of reds. tried that technique exactly one time.


That's kind of what I was thinking. I ever go back to undo one I don't want to have to bring tools into the equation, especially if it's a hot joint. 

Waiting for Peter D to chime in here and say he uses channel locks or some foolishness.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Tulbox said:


> I hear that a lot any more.too bad. Try Knipex...they are at Lowe's in the electrical aisle. PS..I work for Knipex


i know you work for knipex. well not really you just sell them right??? i dont remember i asked you on an other thread though and you were telling me about it. i love the cobras they make they beat the hell outta channellock.

and no i dont use anything made by klein as a beater i bought one of those stanelys with the metal striking cap for that.

The only problem i have every had with the 11 in 1, 10 in 1, and 5 in 1 is that the nutdriver side rounds off.

never had to many serious problems with klein screwdrivers of any type mainly cutters and linemans and OMG the grips on the fishtape pulling linemans they are such a pain


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## st0mps (Aug 19, 2009)

my handles slip off also i put a single wrap of black tape then slipped back on the handles its holding them extra tight no more sliding off n on


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Klein includes a free roll of black tape with every pair of linesmen and ***** now.
:grin:


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Klein includes a free roll of black tape with every pair of linesmen and ***** now.
> :grin:


They should include a refund. This pair of linemans I got a couple months ago I do believe the best strategy for them would be to tape a dollar bill to them and throw them in a ditch.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

rdr said:


> They should include a refund. This pair of linemans I got a couple months ago I do believe the best strategy for them would be to tape a dollar bill to them and throw them in a ditch.


Never tried wiha linesmen but they have some incredible deals on their website. I've had knipex for almost a year now and I'm contemplating getting one of their insulated sets but those wiha pliers look nice and damn cheap. Their screwdrivers are good.:thumbsup:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

you know a couple of days ago i called klein and the lady i spoke to assured me that klein is second to none on their quality. well idk what dream world they live in but in my personal opinion there is a drop in quality. I used to be hardcore klein everything now after it was all stolen im more toward ideal wiha and knipex more than i am about klein. dont get me wrong i still use klein tools everyday just i dont own all klein anymore it a mix of all


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

bduerler said:


> you know a couple of days ago i called klein and the lady i spoke to assured me that klein is second to none on their quality. well idk what dream world they live in but in my personal opinion there is a drop in quality. I used to be hardcore klein everything now after it was all stolen im more toward ideal wiha and knipex more than i am about klein. dont get me wrong i still use klein tools everyday just i dont own all klein anymore it a mix of all


I was an all klein guy as well, for the most part. That and channel lock pump pliers. The first time I saw Wiha drivers i was like WTF are those? I took the plunge and am happy I did.
There are many, many electricians who look down on other guys because they use tools that aren't Klein, it's just so weird. I do like my Klein torpedo level and their wire strippers but even that I'm starting to question.

BTW, sorry about the thieves... a-holes.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

I still have all Klein for now but it's all older stuff. After the experience with the new lineman's and all I've been hearing lately about the drop in quality in general I'm pretty open to trying other brands now as new stuff needs to come into my rotation.


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## r_merc (Jul 5, 2008)

*ya and*



rdr said:


> http://toolmonger.com/2009/10/28/ideal-ratch-a-nut/
> Using a tool to tighten a wire nut? That's a new one on me. :blink:


 Once you use it you will understand and your fingers will thank you.:thumbup:

Now those things you put into a drill.....Forget about it. :no:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> BTW, sorry about the thieves... a-holes.



its cool it happens i did all i could to prevent it. i locked my doors and HAD a car alarm but when they cut the main power wire for the alarm and just pry open the door the is not much you can do. it blows a big one but i am slowly getting new stuff so its not as bad as it was but still upsetting


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

bduerler said:


> its cool it happens i did all i could to prevent it. i locked my doors and HAD a car alarm but when they cut the main power wire for the alarm and just pry open the door the is not much you can do. it blows a big one but i am slowly getting new stuff so its not as bad as it was but still upsetting


That bites. My companies service supervisor was parked in downtown San Francisco at about 9:00am away from his truck for about twenty minutes when some jerk broke his window and gone was his laptop. Yeah, that's not good prevention but still.

Oh and check this link, i'd say that's a steal...:whistling2:
http://www.wihatools.com/special_07.htm


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> That bites. My companies service supervisor was parked in downtown San Francisco at about 9:00am away from his truck for about twenty minutes when some jerk broke his window and gone was his laptop. Yeah, that's not good prevention but still.
> 
> Oh and check this link, i'd say that's a steal...:whistling2:
> http://www.wihatools.com/special_07.htm


as a matter of fact i was just looking at that same set just a second ago. i read your comment on the holiday sales thread and went right there but i noticed it said that the pliers are made in taiwan while the screwdrivers are made in germany


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

bduerler said:


> as a matter of fact i was just looking at that same set just a second ago. i read your comment on the holiday sales thread and went right there but i noticed it said that the pliers are made in taiwan while the screwdrivers are made in germany


Damn I didn't notice, i better check myself.:001_huh:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Damn I didn't notice, i better check myself.:001_huh:


 yea its in the lower right hand corner of the ad by the picture


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Guess that's why they're so friggin cheap.:wallbash:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)




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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Guess that's why they're so friggin cheap.:wallbash:


i guess you saw it to then huh


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

bduerler said:


> i guess you saw it to then huh


Okay, so I retract my previous recommendation that those Wiha sets are a good deal until further notice.
:whistling2:


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

god so is anyone having any luck getting klein to warranty a tool?????? i got the reaming/screwdriver they sell and the flat head stuck out farther than the rest of the tool. the flathead part broke the first time i used it when i was tighting a screw on some EMT going into a 4-0 box i brought it back no less than six hours after i bought it and they said i abused it but when i first bought it they told you have any problems bring it back and we will swap it out. and yes i complained when i bought it saying it looked deformed


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Knipex, Wiha, and Channellock make some fine tools. But, I have not been able to beat the living hell out of a pair of linesmans or ***** from another manufacturer other than from Klein. Aside from their CRAP screwdrivers, and the poor final finishing on some of their pliers...they still are pretty tough pliers! 
I can use other brands for screwdrivers and ***** etc. But I have to say, nothing handles like a pair of Klein nines.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Knipex, Wiha, and Channellock make some fine tools. But, I have not been able to beat the living hell out of a pair of linesmans or ***** from another manufacturer other than from Klein. Aside from their CRAP screwdrivers, and the poor final finishing on some of their pliers...they still are pretty tough pliers!
> I can use other brands for screwdrivers and ***** etc. But I have to say, nothing handles like a pair of Klein nines.


When I first started using knipex linesmen I was a bit skeptical because they seemed light and small but after a bit i was completely used to them. I still have my old pair of nines sitting in the back of the van which i use to cut random lengths of wire from the back of the truck (if i just need a little) and they just feel ridiculous now.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Knipex, Wiha, and Channellock make some fine tools. But, I have not been able to beat the living hell out of a pair of linesmans or ***** from another manufacturer other than from Klein. Aside from their CRAP screwdrivers, and the poor final finishing on some of their pliers...they still are pretty tough pliers!
> I can use other brands for screwdrivers and ***** etc. But I have to say, nothing handles like a pair of Klein nines.


Why would you beat the living hell out of a pair of *****? Kleins yes, channel locks yes. Either of the above in tandem with a screwdriver yes but *****?


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## Tulbox (Sep 11, 2009)

*Klein warranty*



bduerler said:


> god so is anyone having any luck getting klein to warranty a tool?????? i got the reaming/screwdriver they sell and the flat head stuck out farther than the rest of the tool. the flathead part broke the first time i used it when i was tighting a screw on some EMT going into a 4-0 box i brought it back no less than six hours after i bought it and they said i abused it but when i first bought it they told you have any problems bring it back and we will swap it out. and yes i complained when i bought it saying it looked deformed


Klein seems to delight in agrivating their distributors and electricians by backing off their lifetime warranty


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Tulbox said:


> Klein seems to delight in agrivating their distributors and electricians by backing off their lifetime warranty


God yes they are it gets old so fast. all my screwdrivers and nutdrivers are ideal and my pliers are knipex i have decided to retire my kleins im also adding whia screwdrivers into the mix now


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

rdr said:


> Why would you beat the living hell out of a pair of *****? Kleins yes, channel locks yes. Either of the above in tandem with a screwdriver yes but *****?


Yea, my angled head Klein ***** do take a beating, I use them to pull out staples, cut nails, screws etc. They seem to hold up well...but, out of the package they arent that great for control work as they can't cut fine wire very well. I also have a pair of channellock 447 cutters, they cut small wire nicely but don't dare use them to pull staples or cut nails, you will snap the tips off.

And I am not one of those guys who tries to return tools because I mis-used them.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Pulling staples out just plain sucks. Really it does, especially when they are staples that you pounded in.
:hammer::hammer:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

When i say pounded in, i don't mean smashed in, i just mean staple softly.:whistling2:


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> When i say pounded in, i don't mean smashed in, i just mean staple softly.:whistling2:


 
Hehe ya it does suck doesn't it? Especially when you made it look so neat and then the HO or GC comes by with a change order.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Hehe ya it does suck doesn't it? Especially when you made it look so neat and then the HO or GC comes by with a change order.


Exactly. 

Speaking of which, recently finished a job and the gc decided to added four sconces way after the fact so he had one of his guys run the switch legs. Guy changed my four gang box to a five and just left it all a mess. Plus they installed 3" pancake boxes with sl's going in and out. :no:


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> Yea, my angled head Klein ***** do take a beating, I use them to pull out staples, cut nails, screws etc. They seem to hold up well...but, out of the package they arent that great for control work as they can't cut fine wire very well. I also have a pair of channellock 447 cutters, they cut small wire nicely but don't dare use them to pull staples or cut nails, you will snap the tips off.
> 
> And I am not one of those guys who tries to return tools because I mis-used them.


Gotcha, just all the typical stuff. I thought you meant literally beat the hell out of them.


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Speaking of which, recently finished a job and the gc decided to added four sconces way after the fact so he had one of his guys run the switch legs. Guy changed my four gang box to a five and just left it all a mess. Plus they installed 3" pancake boxes with sl's going in and out. :no:


And you allowed this why?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Speaking of which, recently finished a job and the gc decided to added four sconces way after the fact so he had one of his guys run the switch legs. Guy changed my four gang box to a five and just left it all a mess. Plus they installed 3" pancake boxes with sl's going in and out. :no:


 Tell the inspector that the GC added those 3 sconce's and that switch, and let the inspector rip him a new one.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Well, I wasn't there when it was done and had no knowledge of it until I went by the house. There's not much i can do at this point, the house has been sheetrocked and the work was done after the inspector signed off rough so whatever. What's funny is that i've told this gc a few times that I refuse to install 3'' pancakes but he prefers them because "a lot of sconces won't completely cover a 4-0". 

My boss was not very pleased because it would have been a billable change had I done the work but of course the gc just wanted to save some bucks so he had one of his guys do it.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I would still tell the inspector before the final inspection.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I'd cut the GC some slack as the customer probably sat on the fence and then chose a side when the sheetrock truck was pulling up. And 2 s/ls in a 3" pancake... what is that... DaNgErOuS???


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

bduerler said:


>


Hey Blake, we cannot see files that are on your computer - only you can. If you want to share that pic with us, put it on an image hosting place like imageshack and post the link to it there.:thumbsup:

~Matt


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## ryanapplequist (Sep 19, 2009)

my whole pouch has klein in it with the exception of my ***** wich are commercial elec. i only bought those because the one day i went to hd there were no kleins available. i have been satisfied with them so far in the 2 + years i have been using my set.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Hey Blake, we cannot see files that are on your computer - only you can. If you want to share that pic with us, put it on an image hosting place like imageshack and post the link to it there.:thumbsup:
> 
> ~Matt


o ok i will do just that thank you:thumbup:


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

cdnelectrician said:


> Knipex, Wiha, and Channellock make some fine tools. But, I have not been able to beat the living hell out of a pair of linesmans or ***** from another manufacturer other than from Klein. Aside from their CRAP screwdrivers, and the poor final finishing on some of their pliers...they still are pretty tough pliers!
> I can use other brands for screwdrivers and ***** etc. But I have to say, nothing handles like a pair of Klein nines.


Klein side cutters can take a beating, and so can anything Knipex. The Knipex are made with superb steel, and are hardened like they are supposed to. I would recommend the -09 series (9 1/4") Be careful, seems like the Europeans use 7 and 8" 'combination' pliers that look very much like our 'American' lineman pliers. 
-narrower, lighter-

Wiha is very good, too. Yes, be careful, their 'Proturn' line of tools are not made in Germany. They may be just fine, but all the Wiha that I have are either Germany or Switzerland. Top notch stuff.

My main side cutters, and the only ones in my tool bag currently are Knipex red/yellow Insulated -09 'American' series. I have been banging them around pretty hard for a while now, only slight scratches, no dents. They work and cut great. I treat the Insulated grips with the care they deserve, though. (Correction: two linemans in my toolbag, second is a Klein, stamped M. Klein & sons, recently given to me by a very generous and experienced member of this forum). He even gave me new Klein tenite grips to install on them, which I did straight away! He told me to beat on them, so I will see how an old-school Klein sidecutter performs(. I wasn't extremely impressed with the 'Journeyman Series 2000' Kleins that I have shelved for now. -Mostly grip issues, maybe I will melt some tenite grips on them after all. I'm still new in the construction side of the electrical trade, maybe I need to give the new Kleins more trigger time.

idk... the Knipex hit the ground running, and feel good with the shape of the grips, cut extremely well. Not sure if they can be pryed from my hands...

If Klein needs to make a cheap product, maybe they need just two lines. Homeowner Line, and Professional Line. They have just too many models of the same plier.

Perhaps Klein needs to send a team over to Germany, get back to M. Klein's roots, get that old-school, old world craftsmanship back in their products, like what Matty brought over here when he emigrated from Germany.

Next time I am in a muddy ditch twisting tie wire, I will use my Kleins, only to save the Insulated Knipex grips.


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## =Josh= (Oct 29, 2009)

all my klein crap is holding up decently (i dont buy the journeyman series though), but then again its only a few months old lol. however the Philips screwdriver took a crap on week 2 of use. the markings at the top have faded away on a few of my screwdrivers. im looking into ideal screwdrivers from lowes now =)


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I'd cut the GC some slack as the customer probably sat on the fence and then chose a side when the sheetrock truck was pulling up. And 2 s/ls in a 3" pancake... what is that... DaNgErOuS???


The GC is the customer. 

Dunno how dangerous but around here that's too much wire and who the heck uses 3" pancakes anymore.


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> forget what company it was (maybe Ideal) but I used to get a wire nut tightner thingamajig that you could chuck on your drill with large bags of reds. tried that technique exactly one time.


i use that same tool all the time. put the clutch on a low setting and it works awesome. fast, easy, and makes for an excellent connection. its also easy to take the wire nut off if you have to go back for any reason i've found. 

i dunno, my .02


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

the main thing that i think ideal has over klein is they actually warranty there tools. now i know most places dont warranty hot burns but ideal exchanged mine out for me and i love there side cutting pliers i have the 35-012 kind


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## pliers (Oct 21, 2009)

That Ideal plier #35-012 is really just a Channellock 369 with yellow grips instead of the trademark blue. Channellock manufactures pliers for many other brands as well, including Snap-on and Mac Tools. When a company like Channellock survives all these years making a core product line such as pliers, you know they build quality items. Equal to Klein, the benchmark of electrician's tools no doubt. Competition is a good thing, that's why some guys drive Chevy and others Ford. Just sayin'................


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## Tulbox (Sep 11, 2009)

pliers said:


> That Ideal plier #35-012 is really just a Channellock 369 with yellow grips instead of the trademark blue. Channellock manufactures pliers for many other brands as well, including Snap-on and Mac Tools. When a company like Channellock survives all these years making a core product line such as pliers, you know they build quality items. Equal to Klein, the benchmark of electrician's tools no doubt. Competition is a good thing, that's why some guys drive Chevy and others Ford. Just sayin'................


 so look at it this way. If you buy from Ideal they are making aprofit and channellock is making a profit so you are paying 2 profits. eithre buy channellock branded or from another prine manufacturer like Knipex of Kline.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

damn i was wondering why they were so much more than klein


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

I have learned to only use Klein hand tools for cutting. They are the best I have ever used. As far as nut-drivers and screwdrivers I have been using craftsman for years with out any problems and they are alot less money. Craftsman even make a set that look just like Klein drivers, I have not used them but some guys I work with do and love them.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> The GC is the customer.
> 
> Dunno how dangerous but around here that's too much wire and *who the heck uses 3" pancakes* anymore.


Anyone who has had to change out the 4" ones because the small fixture would not cover the box. I use them all the time in custom homes for sconce lighting.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Voltech said:


> I have learned to only use Klein hand tools for cutting. They are the best I have ever used. As far as nut-drivers and screwdrivers I have been using craftsman for years with out any problems and they are alot less money. Craftsman even make a set that look just like Klein drivers, I have not used them but some guys I work with do and love them.


You know i have been looking at the craftsman pro screwdrivers they look nice. and i have seen the nutdrivers your talking about im thinking about getting them


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Anyone who has had to change out the 4" ones because the small fixture would not cover the box. I use them all the time in custom homes for sconce lighting.


I do custom homes too, how often is that?

Are you talking Artemide? Those fixtures are more ******** than a box fill calculation table.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Voltech said:


> I have learned to only use Klein hand tools for cutting. They are the best I have ever used. As far as nut-drivers and screwdrivers I have been using craftsman for years with out any problems and they are alot less money. Craftsman even make a set that look just like Klein drivers, I have not used them but some guys I work with do and love them.


i have a set of those, yes, they are very inexpensive for a reason. good if you're in a pinch doing a service call 800 miles away from your home and forgot to bring your wiggy.
:thumbup:


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> i have a set of those, yes, they are very inexpensive for a reason. good if you're in a pinch doing a service call 800 miles away from your home and forgot to bring your wiggy.
> :thumbup:


Best thing about Craftsmen drivers is that as long as you don't lose them, you only have to buy them once. Unfortunately when doing lots of service work 
inexpensive tools can be hard to hold on too, and easy to beat on.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Best thing about Craftsmen drivers is that as long as you don't lose them, you only have to buy them once. Unfortunately when doing lots of service work
> inexpensive tools can be hard to hold on too, and easy to beat on.


fun to beat on actually. I've used the Craftsmen "big" flathead pretty much as a beater since I bought the set. I killed my old klein, but that handle slipping Craftsmen keeps on ticking.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Wera Chisel drivers, with striking cap on top that extends to the shaft.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

ok so im never buyin any more ideal pliers those linemans i had gapped the first time i used them. with my kleins i could cut nails, screws, bolts and much more without them gapping im making the switch to knipex for pliers for now


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Wera Chisel drivers, with striking cap on top that extends to the shaft.


Stylish.
:thumbup:

I've never owned a driver with a striking cap. I should get one for myself for xmas.


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## Voltage Hazard (Aug 10, 2009)

bduerler said:


> ok so im never buyin any more ideal pliers those linemans i had gapped the first time i used them. with my kleins i could cut nails, screws, bolts and much more without them gapping im making the switch to knipex for pliers for now


If the Kleins worked so well for you in the past, why are you making the switch to Knipex? Is this to see if they hold up better than the Ideal, or Kleins? Or, have you used Knipex in the past, and know they will?

I just find it funny where you start a sentance talking about how well your Kleins hold up, then end it saying your switching to Knipex. Just wondering why.


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

I bought a set of the Stanley screwdrivers and nut drivers that look just like the Kleins this past Summer, and they are holding up far better, for half the price. I'll never buy Klein screwdrivers again if I can help it. They are over-priced crap.

As far as the linesmans pliers go, I really haven't noticed any difference in quality with the newer Kleins. I've used the Ideal and Greenlee linesmans, and couldn't stand them. I'll stick with Klein for linesman pliers, but that is it for them.


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## Tulbox (Sep 11, 2009)

*Name badge*

What on earth is up with that name badge by your name?????


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## BigJohn20 (Mar 23, 2009)

Tulbox said:


> What on earth is up with that name badge by your name?????


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/

Watch it and report back. You won't be disappointed.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Voltage Hazard said:


> If the Kleins worked so well for you in the past, why are you making the switch to Knipex? Is this to see if they hold up better than the Ideal, or Kleins? Or, have you used Knipex in the past, and know they will?
> 
> I just find it funny where you start a sentance talking about how well your Kleins hold up, then end it saying your switching to Knipex. Just wondering why.


curious, myself. I have Klein J-man 2000-series -9NETP, and Knipex 1000V Insulated 9 1/4" lineman pliers. They both have a place in my tool bag. Both seem to work basically as well as the other. The Insulated jobbers just don't go un the ditch with me, or in the light pole holes, like today. I bought the Knipex' when the Kleins grips pulled off. I just keep 2-part epoxying them back on.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Klein screwdrivers are just fine. Same with their cutters and linemans pliers. Quit doing stupid stuff with your tools and they will last more than a week. Wiha and Knipex might be better. I'll probably try them sometime but Klein is readily available compared to mail ordering your tools.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

nitro71 said:


> Klein screwdrivers are just fine. Same with their cutters and linemans pliers. Quit doing stupid stuff with your tools and they will last more than a week. Wiha and Knipex might be better. I'll probably try them sometime but Klein is readily available compared to mail ordering your tools.


in your opinion, nitro, name a few stupid things that are done with tools, that may be causing them to be wearing out prematurely, or to break.
Please. 
Just curious, not being a SA.


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## BigJohn20 (Mar 23, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Klein screwdrivers are just fine. Same with their cutters and linemans pliers. Quit doing stupid stuff with your tools and they will last more than a week. Wiha and Knipex might be better. I'll probably try them sometime but Klein is readily available compared to mail ordering your tools.


If you have a Lowes around you, they carry Knipex.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I usually buy tools that can handle me doing stupid stuff with them. Klein used to be able to take the abuse but they can't anymore.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BigJohn20 said:


> If you have a Lowes around you, they carry Knipex.


Not only that, they carry Knipex at a lot of supply houses. For the record, i saw a pair of comfort grips on a pair of pump pliers made by Knipex that had slipped. The ones on my linesmen haven't slipped at all though.

As far as pumps and alligators does anyone have any reports on Knipex?

How they hold up? Which ones do you like? I want to get some but I'll prolly get the dipped ones.


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## amptech (Sep 21, 2007)

I've had the Knipex Cobras for a couple of years and they are the best I have ever had.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Voltage Hazard said:


> If the Kleins worked so well for you in the past, why are you making the switch to Knipex? Is this to see if they hold up better than the Ideal, or Kleins? Or, have you used Knipex in the past, and know they will?
> 
> I just find it funny where you start a sentance talking about how well your Kleins hold up, then end it saying your switching to Knipex. Just wondering why.


i have the ***** by knipex and i love them after reading so many great reviews on their linemans i want to give them a shot before i make my final choice between klein and knipex


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## The Motts (Sep 23, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Not only that, they carry Knipex at a lot of supply houses. For the record, i saw a pair of comfort grips on a pair of pump pliers made by Knipex that had slipped. The ones on my linesmen haven't slipped at all though.
> 
> As far as pumps and alligators does anyone have any reports on Knipex?
> 
> How they hold up? Which ones do you like? I want to get some but I'll prolly get the dipped ones.


I've had two pairs of 10 inch Knipex Cobra pliers for about 10 years now. They are, in my opinion, the best pump-type pliers you can buy. The grips on mine have never slipped and they grip objects better than other types of pump pliers.

I think any grips on pliers can slip eventually. When it happens to mine I just use 2-part epoxy and the problem is solved.


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## BP_redbear (Jun 22, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Not only that, they carry Knipex at a lot of supply houses. For the record, i saw a pair of comfort grips on a pair of pump pliers made by Knipex that had slipped. The ones on my linesmen haven't slipped at all though.
> 
> As far as pumps and alligators does anyone have any reports on Knipex?
> 
> How they hold up? Which ones do you like? I want to get some but I'll prolly get the dipped ones.


Alligator pump pliers, here. Very durable. Had them 5 years, or so. (7, 10, &12").
I plan on getting the Cobra models next, if I ever need to replace a Knipex Alligator. (I had to rescue my 7" Alligators from inside a block wall a couple weeks ago. I thought they were going to remain permanently there, but I got 'em out).

Dipped grips here. They may have hardened a bit with age, and with exposure to grease and oil from my previous job as a machine mechanic. I seem to use the 7s and the 10s quite often.

The jaws have great teeth and ideal shape. They grip on round and square. Pretty much anything that they will open up for. Grip like a pipe wrench.

Ah, and the makers designed them so the handles don't pinch yer fingers, like some other pliers do.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

In general, do you lot prefer comfort or dipped grips? I figure that the dipped ones would be better on pump pliers but not sure.

I certainly need some new ones. I have an old pair of channies that suck and another pair of companions that are even worse.


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

?????


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

I was in homeless despot today and noticed they have a wackload of new Klein stuff in. I was a little surprised to see that a lot of it said made in china on the box. (automatic strippers, conduit cutters etc.) 

I also noticed that on some of the packages (screwdrivers) it had "MADE IN USA" above the flag that normally resides in the bottom left hand corner of Klein's usual blister packs. But for some reason, the pliers had only the flag and "USA" below it instead of "MADE IN USA". I wonder why that is?


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> I was in homeless despot today and noticed they have a wackload of new Klein stuff in. I was a little surprised to see that a lot of it said made in china on the box. (automatic strippers, conduit cutters etc.)
> 
> I also noticed that on some of the packages (screwdrivers) it had "MADE IN USA" above the flag that normally resides in the bottom left hand corner of Klein's usual blister packs. But for some reason, the pliers had only the flag and "USA" below it instead of "MADE IN USA". I wonder why that is?


idk why that is i do know that all off the kleins i just bought are made in the good ole USofA. but ideals screwdrivers at least the small tech drivers are made in taiwan


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> I was in homeless despot today and noticed they have a wackload of new Klein stuff in. I was a little surprised to see that a lot of it said made in china on the box. (automatic strippers, conduit cutters etc.)
> 
> I also noticed that on some of the packages (screwdrivers) it had "MADE IN USA" above the flag that normally resides in the bottom left hand corner of Klein's usual blister packs. But for some reason, the pliers had only the flag and "USA" below it instead of "MADE IN USA". I wonder why that is?


They discontinued all of the Greenlee stuff and now have only Klein (and commercial electric). Klein fishtapes:blink:, never used one of those. I need some new glowsticks, probably just get them at the supply house.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> They discontinued all of the Greenlee stuff and now have only Klein (and commercial electric). Klein fishtapes:blink:, never used one of those. I need some new glowsticks, probably just get them at the supply house.


Hey the klein fishtapes work pretty good, but i didnt do a 25 foot drop test on them like ideal does to theres. but hey i dont need a fishtape that high anyways. the klein fishtapes feel sturdy and they roll out pretty easy and they have numbers marked on them to let you know how far you have pushed the fishtape


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

bduerler said:


> Hey the klein fishtapes work pretty good, but i didnt do a 25 foot drop test on them like ideal does to theres. but hey i dont need a fishtape that high anyways. the klein fishtapes feel sturdy and they roll out pretty easy and they have numbers marked on them to let you know how far you have pushed the fishtape


That could be pretty handy. I have an ideal 250'nylon, and two greenlee 100' metal and nylon. They seem to hold up pretty well. My greenlee 100' is probably down to about 70' by now though.:whistling2:


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## electro916 (Jan 16, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> That could be pretty handy. I have an ideal 250'nylon, and two greenlee 100' metal and nylon. They seem to hold up pretty well. My greenlee 100' is probably down to about 70' by now though.:whistling2:


I have one of the 240' Klein depth finder tapes. Its the best tape Ive used, Even tho I like and always used the ideal tapes. I used to use the Ideal pull tape with the footage marks on it to make up my wire pulls. Now I just push the fish in(unless its PVC then I just vac it) and once the fish is through I can make up the wire pull. 

My Greenlee 100' nylon is gone, it was down to about 40' and I felt it was time to junk it. But I got one of the 100' Klein nylon tapes and I am really not that impressed, it seems like it will break a lot easier than the Greenlee. The best nylon tape I ever used was the Ideal my old employer had, 200' with steel leader, I pulled thousands of feet of wire with that tape and never broke it. Ideal does have a new nylon tape that is flat like a steel tape, its called Volt-Guard and I really want to try one out.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I needed a new pair of gloves the other day (usually I don't wear gloves, but it's been pretty cold) and when I was at the supply i picked up a pair of Klein journeymen gloves.
Hecho en Vietnam.
I've worn them for two days of work and they are already falling apart.
:laughing:


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## DaveZeki (Dec 10, 2009)

bduerler said:


> Well i have just started buying my tools back since all of mine were stolen out of my truck. i purchased a pair of the angle head ***** and side cutters. the ***** brand new first day i had them the cutting edge gaped on 16 gauge wire and the handles were off center making one handle look longer than the other. the side cutters well to make a long story short i now know the dipped handles even slip off. I starting to go to ideal, wiha, and knipex. i hate to leave klein because of how long i have owned them and used them but i am not going to spend 30 dollars on a tool that craps out in one day.



Man screw klein....KNIPEX is where its at!!! Mine can still cut paper after 5 years of cutting hardened screws and various other things.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

i like ideal tools


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> i like ideal tools


i used to im just wiha and knipex now. the ideal side cutters i got i do not like they gap way to easy i have the 35-3012's and all of there screwdrivers are made in taiwan


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

hey anyone know if you can warranty knipex back at lowes? as for my kleins i no longer buy or use them no one down here warranties them anymore, i am not a big fan of ideal but their screwdrivers are so much better even though they are not made in the US. plus ideal holds to their lifetime warranty. i would like to get more knipex and wiha and witte but none of the supply houses i use carry them and its almoet impossible to warranty them any suggestions???


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> i like ideal tools


Ideal tools are Channelock in disguise, at least the linesmans are. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Channelock makes their strippers too.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Ideal tools are Channelock in disguise, at least the linesmans are. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Channelock makes their strippers too.


They _were _channelocks but are not anymore.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

nolabama said:


> They _were _channelocks but are not anymore.


So who makes them?


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## Tulbox (Sep 11, 2009)

*Ideal Tools*

Chanellock makes most of Ideal's forged pliers but Ideal makes their own strippers in Sycamore, IL. They are very good at strippers.


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## Tulbox (Sep 11, 2009)

*Knipex at Lowe's*



bduerler said:


> hey anyone know if you can warranty knipex back at lowes? as for my kleins i no longer buy or use them no one down here warranties them anymore, i am not a big fan of ideal but their screwdrivers are so much better even though they are not made in the US. plus ideal holds to their lifetime warranty. i would like to get more knipex and wiha and witte but none of the supply houses i use carry them and its almoet impossible to warranty them any suggestions???


 Yes..you can warranty Knipex at Lowe's if it is one of the 16 Knipex tools Lowe's stocks


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## Tulbox (Sep 11, 2009)

*China & Klein*



cdnelectrician said:


> I was in homeless despot today and noticed they have a wackload of new Klein stuff in. I was a little surprised to see that a lot of it said made in china on the box. (automatic strippers, conduit cutters etc.)
> 
> I also noticed that on some of the packages (screwdrivers) it had "MADE IN USA" above the flag that normally resides in the bottom left hand corner of Klein's usual blister packs. But for some reason, the pliers had only the flag and "USA" below it instead of "MADE IN USA". I wonder why that is?


Looks like much of Klein is shifting to China


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

gilbequick said:


> So who makes them?


Don't know but the ones stamped sycamore il are made in tiawan.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Tulbox said:


> Yes..you can warranty Knipex at Lowe's if it is one of the 16 Knipex tools Lowe's stocks


Cool thank you:thumbsup: oh merry christmas, happy holidays you guys


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