# Hidden Junction Boxes



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Instering service day .,, customer called me and told me that few devices are not working and I kinda figured it was loose connection at the junction box either Wago or Choc blocks and few wirenuts.

Anyway I check out and most of devices were ok humm so I end up get the toner to find the other bad spice no dice. 

Yank out the Megger and test it and found out the distance where it was and have to run down or upstairs depending on the way the cable were run.

once I dail in and told the customer have to break open the wall due the way the cable were strunged so broke open up one wall where I will find it and Voila! 3 hidden junction box on one spot.

And have to produre to find the rest on first floor I got done it came up 22 hidden junction boxes and end up rewire the whole first floor and tommrow have to deal with the rest upstair I am not sure how many more I will find it but a fun way to troubleshooting.

I know many of you hate hidden junction box tell the forum where the worst spot you found.

I found one behind the toilet :blink:


Merci.
Marc


----------



## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

22 buried boxes? And no map? The nerve!

Nice work finding them.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

This thread sucks wothout pics......:laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

​


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Marc, I am interested in something you wrote. You say you used a meg to locate the distance to a buried j-box. This is a function of TDR generally, so I am quite interested in learning how to accomplish that when using a meg. Is there a trick math solution? (hopefully not too complicated of one..)

Please respond. 

Thanks, Mike


----------



## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Marc, I am interested in something you wrote. You say you used a meg to locate the distance to a buried j-box. This is a function of TDR generally, so I am quite interested in learning how to accomplish that when using a meg. Is there a trick math solution? (hopefully not too complicated of one..)
> 
> Please respond.
> 
> Thanks, Mike


Yes please.


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Yes please.


 
Not possible with a megger............


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

76nemo said:


> Not possible with a megger............


Not if it's B4T's megger..... his stores *maps*. :laughing:


----------



## ichimo23 (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm going to start using the word 'voila!' whenever i get the opportunity


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I wowed a customer in my 2nd year in the trade, found a buried jbox in basement under 1x1 tile. 1st cut ,1st find. Ever find a doorbell transformer stashed on the j box of a new work hi hat? Had one last month.


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

ichimo23 said:


> I'm going to start using the word 'voila!' whenever i get the opportunity


 
Funny reminder. We had gotten this new piece of Italian machinery in and were working directly with the instrumentation guys tuning her in. One of those guys was waiting on a reply from Tech Support. The reply came though with the missing link we needed in the program and he asks the engineer standing next to me,..........what is "Vo-illa"? 

What are you talking about Steve? Well, look how he ended his email to me. "VO-ILLA"?????


"VWHA-LA" Steve,...voila. Ohhhhhhhh, gotcha, gotcha......:laughing:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Funny reminder. We had gotten this new piece of Italian machinery in and were working directly with the instrumentation guys tuning her in. One of those guys was waiting on a reply from Tech Support. The reply came though with the missing link we needed in the program and he asks the engineer standing next to me,..........what is "Vo-illa"?
> 
> What are you talking about Steve? Well, look how he ended his email to me. "VO-ILLA"?????
> 
> ...


.... geek


----------



## BCSparkyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

So let me get this straight....B4T has started switching stuff up and burying his boxes in walls now?


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> .... geek


 
My name is Brad, HIS was Steve goofy:jester:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

76nemo said:


> My name is Brad, HIS was Steve goofy:jester:


... loser


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> ... loser


 
That'd be me:thumbsup:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> So let me get this straight....B4T has started switching stuff up and burying his boxes in walls now?


No, that would be 220/221 as long as his personal standards for burying boxes are followed. :laughing:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> No, that would be 220/221 as long as his personal standards for burying boxes are followed. :laughing:


Don't be hatin'. Your just upset cause the guys from AZ come up with all the good ideas and standards first. :laughing:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BCSparkyGirl said:


> So let me get this straight....B4T has started switching stuff up and burying his boxes in walls now?


No.. I am strictly burying boxes in dirt.. they seem to be the only ones that are code compliant because the cover is at grade level when installed.. :whistling2:


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I wowed a customer in my 2nd year in the trade, found a buried jbox in basement under 1x1 tile. 1st cut ,1st find. Ever find a doorbell transformer stashed on the j box of a new work hi hat? Had one last month.


 

Never had to find one,,,,but I've put a few in high hats:whistling2:

It's still accessible


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Don't be hatin'. Your just upset cause the guys from AZ come up with all the good ideas and standards first. :laughing:


I think the intense rays of the sun are hurting your brains. :laughing:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I think the intense rays of the sun are hurting your brains. :laughing:


What brain? :blink:


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Never had to find one,,,,but I've put a few in high hats:whistling2:
> 
> It's still accessible


 I like that, that's what seperates the men from the boys during service calls. I 've hid a few wac transformers in the range ignition outlets on 2 story slab kitchens, using a deep 5" box of course w/ a mud ring.


----------



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Hidden*

We found a whole 100 amp subpanel just buried behind new drywall. Nobody ever knew it until some things went out and we got the call. That was bizarre. 

What are drywallers thinking? I thought they were all intelligent, responsible individuals? 

Cletis


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Cletis said:


> We found a whole 100 amp subpanel just buried behind new drywall. Nobody ever knew it until some things went out and we got the call. That was bizarre.
> 
> What are drywallers thinking? I thought they were all intelligent, responsible individuals?
> 
> Cletis


 

Not the ones around here.:whistling2:


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm still waiting to find a pile of cash hidden in a wall......


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Not the ones around here.:whistling2:



Here your lucky if they know even 1 word of english...

I have no problem working with anyone except for someone who cant or WON'T speak english.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> I'm still waiting to find a pile of cash hidden in a wall......


That brings to mind my uncle. He was demoing a house and the whole wall between two studs was full of silver dollars.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> That brings to mind my uncle. He was demoing a house and the whole wall between two studs was full of silver dollars.


 And that fulfilled a "good day at work".


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> And that fulfilled a "good day at work".


For him , yes it did. He told me about it but did not share.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Marc, I am interested in something you wrote. You say you used a meg to locate the distance to a buried j-box. This is a function of TDR generally, so I am quite interested in learning how to accomplish that when using a meg. Is there a trick math solution? (hopefully not too complicated of one..)
> 
> Please respond.
> 
> Thanks, Mike


Macmikeman.,

I am glad you asked me about it and what I did turn up the megger up to the safe voltage testing level { useally 500 volt range } and use the toner reciver due the induction of voltage useally keep the dammed thing buzzing but not very loud but engough to know there is a voltage on the conductor it ran.

If the reciver is too weak for some reason I use the NCV that useally trip all the the time so that how I dail in.

Now for others if you want to know why I did not post the photo due I have issue with my camera it really ticked me off a brand new one and it is NFG !!!! Merde !!! 250 Euros for nothing Fk that.

and found 8 more upstair now in progress to do the final test and have drywall contractor come out and deal with the rest of the mess most are about 10" by 10" cut out but good thing the owner of that place will plan to repaint the whole place so it was a semi blessing in desgide { SP } 

The major curpit was the former owner did all the bloody work with hidden boxes and more than half of circuits were unpermited anyway so have to fix them and bring up the code 

The unpermited circuit is Ring circuits.,,,

Merci.
Marc


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> I know many of you hate hidden junction box tell the forum where the worst spot you found.


I had to find some out in the desert once. Like almost 2,500 feet of underground feeder with boxes coming up ever once and a while. Really old install too done with EMT stubs and metal boxes that were not bonded. One was in a :cursing: bush, was not happy about that.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Macmikeman.,
> 
> I am glad you asked me about it and what I did turn up the megger up to the safe voltage testing level { useally 500 volt range } and use the toner reciver due the induction of voltage useally keep the dammed thing buzzing but not very loud but engough to know there is a voltage on the conductor it ran.
> 
> ...


Now that is a creative solution. I bet volt ticks perform real nice thru drywall with a megger boost on the cable. I will have to try that trick myself, I'm sure I wont forget that idea. You sir, get a macthanks for that one....


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Mac.,

I did use the megger pretty often when I have to locate hard to find junction box or bad splices which some home owners I know they can get pretty crafty and forgot where it was or change ownership of the home and find issue.

So that one of my SOP I do from time to time is meg the whole thing and few time I will hit a hidden junction box but useally not very many and also it the standard pratice in French Electrical Code we have to megger before we can have hook up to EDF { French de Electrique French POCO }.

And the megger setting useally either 500 or 750 volts ( 1000 for new construction on 415 v circuits ) depending on what circuit it have to snag keep in your mind we do have 240 volt L-N set up with 415 Volts L-L

Merci.
Marc


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Now that is a creative solution. I bet volt ticks perform real nice thru drywall with a megger boost on the cable. I will have to try that trick myself, I'm sure I wont forget that idea. You sir, get a macthanks for that one....


Only thing is a battery powered megger is DC, you would need a DC volt tick.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Only thing is a battery powered megger is DC, you would need a DC volt tick.


Yeah The DC volt tick will work either way but AC volt tick it will only pick up on NM cables but MC or SWA or in steel conduit forget it it will not pick up unless you have a split on the conduit.

Have to use the DC tick most of the time.

Merci.
Marc


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

K den. Mac goes out a buyin a dc volt tic so he can find buried j-boxes without using an AT or a TDR, neither of which I currently own... This is doable...:thumbup:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> K den. Mac goes out a buyin a dc volt tic so he can find buried j-boxes without using an AT or a TDR, neither of which I currently own... This is doable...:thumbup:


Don't need no steeenkin deesee volt tick thing.
Don't need no steeenkin AT.
Don't need no steeenkin TDR.

All's ya really need is a buck-twenty five.








​


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I really REALLY wanted those xray specs when I was 10 years old but I was smart enough to know they wouldn't really work.

I remember pullng out about a dozen buried boxes in a kitchen remodel. The old guy that used to live there obviously liked to tinker. I'd find a 3/0 metal box, 18" of 12-2, then a 4s box, another 24" of 14-3 then a plastic box wrapped in tape with some UF ....and on and on.

I've never used any devices other than a screwdriver or a drywall saw/sawsall to find them. Logic and knowledge can usually narrow the search.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I've never used any devices other than a screwdriver or a drywall saw/sawsall to find them. Logic and knowledge can usually narrow the search.


If I got my way I would be using my 20 pound sledge to find boxes but the big holes seem to upset owners.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Don't need no steeenkin deesee volt tick thing.
> Don't need no steeenkin AT.
> Don't need no steeenkin TDR.
> 
> ...


They have some in Nigeria that apparently work well....http://www.codewit.com/worldnews/africa/2029-nigeria-airport-security-officers-using-the-body-scanners-to-ogle-female-passengers


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> If I got my way I would be using my 20 pound sledge to find boxes but the big holes seem to upset owners.


That's why God invented sheetrockers.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

480sparky said:


> That's why God invented sheetrockers.


:laughing: One time I did the whole hammer location thing, basically destroyed a fairly large ceiling. Hammer holes everywhere, a big ass diagonal cut no where near straight cut going from one corner to the other, also hacked out a good sized hunk of wall to. It was like Christmas had come early to the rock guys.


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Forgot about this thread until today. I said a megohmeter was worthless in finding a open in a run hidden in walls.


I read what Marc replied to in his use of a megger in that scenario.

Now my turn to sound simple again. Am I ever going to get a reward for this???????


A non-contact *DCV *tester???????? Please enlighten me. Who makes them and how do they work in theory?:blink::blink::blink:


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

My easiest way is risky, energize the ground and use a volt tick to follow lines.


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> My easiest way is risky, energize the ground and use a volt tick to follow lines.


This kind of sounds like a recipe for bad if you ask me.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> This kind of sounds like a recipe for bad if you ask me.


Said it's risky.... I kept getting blasted in an apartment I rented as a kid, grounds were hot, it was easy to follow behind the rock with the tick, found the box where tick went three ways, found nick in bx going to bathroom and feed bx with no connector. Easy fix once found. Tried it a couple times afterwards with one positive result, other could not be found.


----------



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> Said it's risky.... I kept getting blasted in an apartment I rented as a kid, grounds were hot, it was easy to follow behind the rock with the tick, found the box where tick went three ways, found nick in bx going to bathroom and feed bx with no connector. Easy fix once found. Tried it a couple times afterwards with one positive result, other could not be found.


 
Still doesn't answer my question with a DC push. Marc works in different countries and familiar with different equipment than what we're used to in the States. I enjoy his posts along with some others from different countries on other forums:thumbsup:

So back to my dull brain.......... I am NOT familiar with a NC DCV tick/tester/tracer, whatever. If they exist, does anyone have a link, and more so than anything, can someone please explain how they work in theory?


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

76Nemo.,

I will have to find the link with the NCV DC verison once I find it and I will post it here ASAP.

I know couple AC NCV tester can work with DC system if the voltage is high engough.

Merci.
Marc


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> I know couple AC NCV tester can work with DC system if the voltage is high engough.


The fluke AC one isn't one of those, I tried it with my megger just for kicks.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Just a update here just going to send the bill to the customer today and he will not being too happy with it but it slove all the issue.

The total bill on my part is 6200 Euros The drywall contractor came up 950 Euros the Painters what I heard it was little over 2100 Euros.

Merci.
Marc


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I once found a MLO panel above a suspended ceiling, in a bathroom, at a bar.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> I once found a MLO panel above a suspended ceiling, in a bathroom, at a bar.


Now that is nuts but I will not dare stand top of the freaking stool to get that SOB.

Merci.
Marc


----------



## Leviticus (Sep 29, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> If I got my way I would be using my 20 pound sledge to find boxes but the big holes seem to upset owners.


Starting to sound like a service plumber... :whistling2:


----------



## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

I once found a 4' by 8' old SqD Iline panel that had the guts taken out. it was being used as a j-box and had a small 12x18 or so piece of sheetmetal cover that was on the surface of the wall. It was buried behind concrete blocks on the wall to a handicap lift. At the side of a stage. The old feeders were spliced to extend to a load directly. 

I looked in it with a mirror and saw that it had a couple of conduits still connected, the feeders having been cut off at the connector and buried.

Yes I did get them out.:thumbup: Don't have any Idea why they were left.:laughing:


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Leviticus said:


> Starting to sound like a service plumber... :whistling2:


Well I had to get the idea from somewhere. :laughing:


----------



## Leviticus (Sep 29, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Well I had to get the idea from somewhere. :laughing:


Its funny cause I had my plumber buddy over to fix a leak in the wall behind my sink a while back and he did just that, smacks a big ass hole in the wall and says "Yep, there it is".

As I am standing there with my drywall saw...:laughing:


----------



## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

*My hidden junction*

Found when emodeling the bedroom next to the bathroom,


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I had a job once of adding three center fixtures to a home and when I measured the center of each room and proceded to cut my first hole for my box i hit the buried, plastered over origional ceiling box right where I was using my hole saw....All the origional switch legs were still intact. That was a good day...


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

captkirk said:


> I had a job once of adding three center fixtures to a home and when I measured the center of each room and proceded to cut my first hole for my box i hit the buried, plastered over origional ceiling box right where I was using my hole saw....All the origional switch legs were still intact. That was a good day...


That something don't useally happend very often but few case you may get lucky which you did got lucky that day :thumbsup:

Merci.
Marc


----------

