# Swimming pool bonding



## delectric

Hi,

I am installing a new vinyl liner inground pool i am an electrician i work for an offshore drilling contractor i have never done a pool I have read the code and i think i have got it except where the solid #8 awg wire that attaches to the wire mesh in the concrete comes out of the concrete and goes to the pump motor is this wire directly buried or does it need to be in conduit?


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## Speedy Petey

Yup. Bare or green. Either is fine. No conduit. 

Be sure to hit EVERYTHING metal associated with the pool and within 5'.
Ladder cups, railing cups, coping, walls, light niche, diving board mount, motors, heaters, filters, salt generators, etc. 
Oh, and don't forget the wonderful bonding of the water itself if you are under the 2008 NEC.


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## delectric

ok if i bury the solid bare #8 from the pool to the motor how deep does it have to be also what about a plastic cased 220vac 2p timer that will be 20' away from the pool but will be for the pump motor circuit does it have to bond somehow and water bonding i will not have a light but i thought that the ladders and hanrails bonded the water?


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## wirenut1110

You can use something like these to bond the water. I usually just lay the bond wire in a small trench just below the ground. The timer won't need to be bonded. Just remember, the wiring outside the house will need to have an insulated ground no smaller than #12 so, don't use any UF.


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## Toronto Sparky

Never seem a pool water bond cupling before.. and had a pool for 40 yrs. 
Think I will continue to trust my GFI. BTW No lights in the pool just a 100W halogen on the house (also gfi) about 30 ft away and high.


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## manchestersparky

if you have an aluminum ladder,you are required to bond it.
By bonding the aluminum ladder you are also bonding the pool water


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## Dennis Alwon

You can also bond the water of a pool with this device called Bond Safe 680


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## vinster888

bond the water. the most absurd and unwarranted bunch of crap


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## william1978

Dennis Alwon said:


> You can also bond the water of a pool with this device called Bond Safe 680


 This one is pretty cool.


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## william1978

vinster888 said:


> bond the water. the most absurd and unwarranted bunch of crap


 I agree but that is what it says in 680.26 (c) in the 2008.:thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey

The Bond Safe dude needs to change the lug on that skimmer body and take a new pic. That AL one is so illegal it's not funny. :laughing:...oh wait


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## electricalperson

we bond the water to put it at the same potential as what your stepping on when you get out of the pool. they think if the surrounding area is energized, or the pool water is energized you will feel some tingles when you step out. supposedly they had stray voltage problems with the POCO somewhere out west or south west or something like that


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## Speedy Petey

electricalperson said:


> ..., or the pool water is energized you will feel some tingles when you step out.


Funny thing is the "water bond" has nothing to do with something being energized. That is what grounding is for, and you can't ground water.


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## electricalperson

Speedy Petey said:


> Funny thing is the "water bond" has nothing to do with something being energized. That is what grounding is for, and you can't ground water.


 you bond everything together to put it at the same potential. the water can be energized and so will the surrounding area of the pool. kind of like the bird on the wire effect.


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## Toronto Sparky

I'm thinking that the potential of the water depends on how far away from the bond you are and where the voltage is entering the water. After all water is not all that good of a conductor.. In my mind the GFI will remove the need for bonding the water..


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## Pierre Belarge

Toronto Sparky said:


> I'm thinking that the potential of the water depends on how far away from the bond you are and where the voltage is entering the water. After all water is not all that good of a conductor.. In my mind the GFI will remove the need for bonding the water..


 
Actually pool water, by it nature of being chemically treated, is a very good conductor.


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## vinster888

electricalperson said:


> you bond everything together to put it at the same potential. the water can be energized and so will the surrounding area of the pool. kind of like the bird on the wire effect.



just more potential for me to get my butt cooked in the pool.


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## hurk27

Dennis Alwon said:


> You can also bond the water of a pool with this device called Bond Safe 680


 
It just might work given that he is on a oil rig in the middle of the ocean, and he uses the sea water to fill the pool?:laughing:

Just one question how does one go about installing a pool "in-ground" on a oil rig?:whistling2:

Ok on a more serious note, just to note you don't have to take an equal potential bonding conductor back to the panel serving the pool.


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## Bamaboy

Check with your local municpality requirements. I wire 12 - 15 pools a month and it varies greatly. Some code enforcers require the bonding wire to be visible from the pool to the ground rod at your equipment pad. If it is buried, I have been made to go back an show the inspector that the wire at the rod has continuity with the wire from the pool, whether it be gunite or liner. Also, a prvious post brought up that the handrail cup must be bonded as well.


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## Dennis Alwon

Bamaboy said:


> Check with your local municpality requirements. I wire 12 - 15 pools a month and it varies greatly. Some code enforcers require the bonding wire to be visible from the pool to the ground rod at your equipment pad. If it is buried, I have been made to go back an show the inspector that the wire at the rod has continuity with the wire from the pool, whether it be gunite or liner. Also, a prvious post brought up that the handrail cup must be bonded as well.


You do not need a bonding wire to a ground rod for a pool . The Epb does not connect to anything but rather just keeps all the metal parts of the pool at the same potential.


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## Speedy Petey

I have never ever heard of an area actually requiring a grounding electrode. Pretty stupid requirement if they did. 

I have however seen and heard of many guys mistakenly installing them. Why I have NO idea. I am not sure who along the way though it would be a good idea.


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## vinster888

well when the pump is bonded to the grid and has an egc there will be continuity from the grid to the rod @ the service.


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## Speedy Petey

vinster888 said:


> well when the pump is bonded to the grid and has an egc there will be continuity from the grid to the rod @ the service.


True. But I have seen more than one "licensed electrician" sink an isolated ground rod for a pool bonding grid.


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## Ramcat7

delectric said:


> Hi,
> 
> Bare wire with no conduit is OK


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## Ramcat7

*Bonding the water in a swimming pool.*

I used a 1+1/2" female threaded copper coupling with a 6" threaded copper pipe joined together using teflon tape on the threads. I drilled a hole through the threaded coupling and threaded the hole for a 1/4-20 brass screw which I attached a #8 copper lug to secure the #8 bonding wire. This pipe was placed between the pump and the pool hose.


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## starsailor803

I'm currently working on a vinyl pool and the city has just started applying the '08 code with respect to pool bonding. They're making us run an additional course of #8 bare copper buried 4 to 6" following the perimeter of the pool between 18 to 24" from the pool wall. It has to be attached to the inner run at 4 equidistant points.



Speedy Petey said:


> Yup. Bare or green. Either is fine. No conduit.
> 
> Be sure to hit EVERYTHING metal associated with the pool and within 5'.
> Ladder cups, railing cups, coping, walls, light niche, diving board mount, motors, heaters, filters, salt generators, etc.
> Oh, and don't forget the wonderful bonding of the water itself if you are under the 2008 NEC.


Would the bonding strip inside a wet niche forming shell suffice as water bonding?


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## electures

*Nice idea. What about 110.3(b)?*



Ramcat7 said:


> I used a 1+1/2" female threaded copper coupling with a 6" threaded copper pipe joined together using teflon tape on the threads. I drilled a hole through the threaded coupling and threaded the hole for a 1/4-20 brass screw which I attached a #8 copper lug to secure the #8 bonding wire. This pipe was placed between the pump and the pool hose.


 
Is it listed?


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## I_get_shocked

hurk27 said:


> Ok on a more serious note, just to note you don't have to take an equal potential bonding conductor back to the panel serving the pool.



Though it isnt required, it doesnt say you cant. Yetwe were asked by the AHJ to remove the equal potential bonding conductor from a bell box where it was tied with the GEC .


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## sonnyet

vinster888 said:


> bond the water. the most absurd and unwarranted bunch of crap


_Hi Joe, _

_a good read onthe forum, TY_
_Where can I get one of hthese Bond safe devices?_
_What a crock with this latest nec requirements......Next the nec will make it a violation to put water in your swimming pools! _


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## Speedy Petey

sonnyet said:


> _Hi Joe, _
> 
> _a good read onthe forum, TY_


Welcome to the forum.





sonnyet said:


> _Where can I get one of hthese Bond safe devices?_


Let me Google that for you


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## sonnyet

wirenut1110 said:


> You can use something like these to bond the water. I usually just lay the bond wire in a small trench just below the ground. The timer won't need to be bonded. Just remember, the wiring outside the house will need to have an insulated ground no smaller than #12 so, don't use any UF.


doesn't this have to make contact w/water somehow? does this attach btwn the pump hose and how do you keep it from leaking?

Trying to bond using the latest NEC (680) code
sonnyet


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## Shockdoc

What is the NEC going to screw up next with next lobbied products ?


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## Dennis Alwon

sonnyet said:


> doesn't this have to make contact w/water somehow? does this attach btwn the pump hose and how do you keep it from leaking?
> 
> Trying to bond using the latest NEC (680) code
> sonnyet


First off, if the pool has a light or other metal parts that are bonded and over 9 in squared you don't need to do anything else. The device I mentioned in the earlier post ( in 2009) is UL listed to work even if the pump is not on.


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## Service Call

You know this thread is over 2'yrs old, right?


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## piperunner

*Capacitor pool*

Funny i was just thinking about pool water and why we would ground it wonder how many folks have been well lets say shocked by no ground in a above ground pool i mean a water ground point not the motor or anything else .


If your pool is above ground you kinda dont have the money for a ion generator to clean it most folks use the old chlorine tablets or bottled chlorine .

Now your in the water floating around in Chlorine and water did ya know in 1884 they made a Chlorine /zinc battery .

And today they have a Lithium /Chlorine batt thats used by the military small and its a kinda a fuel cell last a long long time .

Chlorine makes water a better conductor it breaks down the solids or elements in the water not just germs in the water and will become conductive with certain metals more so .

Lets hope the pool sides are not aluminum or zine coated but the rubber liner is a insulator and the sides are metal or wood the ground is in the water .

Your inside one big Capacitor waiting for the next lightning strike so you can charge up and discharge down that ground connection .

You become part of the circuit now if you ground the water per the nec .Before the ground you were isolated in that pool liner to me your safer with no ground in the water .

But iam just a construction electrician so dont listen to me .


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## Dennis Alwon

Service Call said:


> You know this thread is over 2'yrs old, right?


Yes and so are the other 2 water bond threads that he re-opened.


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## A Little Short

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yes and so are the other 2 water bond threads that he re-opened.


This must be nostalgia weekend. I saw another 2 year old thread reopened yesterday about "squirrel electric chairs."


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## RIVETER

Opening old threads isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can be a learning tool for those that have questions about certain things and may not have read the original thread. Not everyone can be as knowledgeable as I am.:blink:


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## Magnettica




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## electricmanscott

Is that basketball hoop bonded. :laughing:


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## Magnettica

electricmanscott said:


> Is that basketball hoop bonded. :laughing:


Of course it is! It's in the water isn't it? :thumbsup:


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## RIVETER

Speedy Petey said:


> Funny thing is the "water bond" has nothing to do with something being energized. That is what grounding is for, and you can't ground water.


Good "CATCH".


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## leland

*2011*

Thats what we're on now.

Still stupid bonding pool water.
Buy a brass nipple and a pipe clamp. Done.


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## sonnyet

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yes and so are the other 2 water bond threads that he re-opened.


Sorry Guys,


Please forgive my reopening of earlier post. I be a young "grasshopper" trying to learn from the masters! I'll try reading the dates as I visit this great knowledge base of Electrical Pros. Thank you for your indulgence in my efforts to "sponge " from all the experience & wisdom that is so obvious in this forum. I will try to learn as the "Grasshopper" from the Masters.:notworthy:
thanks for the patience,


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## RIVETER

sonnyet said:


> Sorry Guys,
> 
> 
> Please forgive my reopening of earlier post. I be a young "grasshopper" trying to learn from the masters! I'll try reading the dates as I visit this great knowledge base of Electrical Pros. Thank you for your indulgence in my efforts to "sponge " from all the experience & wisdom that is so obvious in this forum. I will try to learn as the "Grasshopper" from the Masters.:notworthy:
> thanks for the patience,


Do I detect sarcasm? If so, that's okay, as well. Try again.


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