# Pulling 8 wires thru 3/4 Flex



## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm having trouble pulling qty 5 #10 and qty 3 #12 stranded wire through 50' of 3/4" flex conduit in a suspended ceiling. The run is pretty straight except for a few mild sags between straps due to strapping locations I couldn't access.

First I used wire pulling string and then I tried one of those baskets with the same string. Nothing is braking but I can only push / pull about 20' before I get stuck.

Should I be using a rope? I wouldn't think rope or string would make a difference as long as it doesn't break but I'm short on experience here.

I've also seen posts about something called a mouse and shop vacs.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

:blink:


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

welcome to the wolves den..... feedin time boys!


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## Dawizman (Mar 10, 2012)

Have you tried some lube?


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2012)

Good luck! Should have put that wire in first before you installed the flex.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

crikey said:


> Good luck! Should have put that wire in first before you installed the flex.


I did that on a previous run with the same wires on the same project. It was still a lot tougher than I thought it should be.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Break out the flex girther and turn that 3/4" to 1". :thumbup:


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## donselec (May 7, 2011)

good luck......hopefully you just learned something...


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Have you consulted Annex C?

You didn't say what type of wire you were trying to pull but it may be too many.

BTW the conduit tables lie a lot.


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## Dawizman (Mar 10, 2012)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Have you consulted Annex C?
> 
> You didn't say what type of wire you were trying to pull but it may be too many.
> 
> BTW the conduit tables lie a lot.


Assuming THHN or THWN, he should be within the allowable fill capacaty on 3/4" ENT, FMC, or LFMC.

I'm not sure if there's a maximum length allowed on flex in California or not, but as the OP is finding out the hard way, there should be.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Even though it's illegal, in your scenario you need to lay out the flex and pull the conductors in first. Actually you would be pulling the flex over the conductors.

The flex just flexes too much even when strapped.

Live and learn.

1. Uninstall it, lay it straight, push in a fish, attach wires (that are also laid out straight), secure the fish, hold the flex and walk along and slide the flex over the wires.

2. Just remove the 90's from the termination point(s) and try again. Having an extra hand or two may help stabilize the flex.

A mouse and vacuum is only for getting the pull string in place and it won't work on flex...too much air leakage.

Also, you need to be super stealthy with your head. I'd use a couple of the 12's folded over in a loop and tape the other wires *TIGHTLY* in an aerodynamic fashion.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Have you consulted Annex C?
> 
> You didn't say what type of wire you were trying to pull but it may be too many.
> 
> BTW the conduit tables lie a lot.



Qty 3 #12 THHN = 25.743 sqmm
Qty 5 #10 THHN = 68.050 sqmm
------------------------------
Total Wire Area = 93.793 sqmm

40% of Inner Area of 3/4" Flex = 137 sqmm

94/137 says I'm at 67% allowable conduit fill

Table is obviously lying


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

It *is *a lot of wires but you problem lies in the nature of the flex. It wants to bunch up and create more friction.

Also a likely problem would be the construction of the head.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

220/221 said:


> Also a likely problem would be the construction of the head.


That's why I tried the basket. I figured it would smooth the head and provide swivel action but my problem didn't improve much.

Any tips on head construction?

I also have the option of adding pull boxes.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Use a fish tape and tie a decent head. Or have your j man do the head if you don't know some of the tricks.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Should have used conduit.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

stagger the head, have someone pushing, pull in a hard fishtape and use that to pull it in, lube it, make sure the guy pushing is lining up the conductors nice and str8 and not all knarley.


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## ren79eg (May 30, 2010)

Good god


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

How you make the head up is going to make the difference between getting this thing done, or wishing it was done.

I 100% agree that you need to pull this on the ground and not above the ceiling. Pulling lube will help, another set of hands will really help. Pulling anything in flex sucks.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

:jester:
One time me and my buddy were pulling a similar stunt like this, and he pissed me off with something he said, so I made the head up like it was a wad of rolled up socks...he was on the pulling end....something like 12 #14's going to an annunciator panel. 

We were both sitting on some duct above the ceiling, and he pulled andpulled and pulled. I almost fell through the ceiling Laughing when I saw his face when he saw the head. :thumbup:

Needless to say, hes still a good friend, but he has gotten me back once or twice for that schenanagan.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

....


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

Watch the direction of the flex. You'll have better luck one way than the other.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

F' that noise. I was taught you feed the conductors through the flex first, and then install it. Stuff is damn near impossible to fish through, especially when you consider the why of using flex.


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## 04gixx6 (Mar 18, 2012)

We made some flex runs that were tough. Tried steel fishtape and had a hard time. So we then we tried a fiberglass tape and it made.a.world of difference.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

For the purist in the crowd, there are tables and formulas about pulling wire into conduit.

The most important factor is how straight the wires enter. That's called the "critical angle". Basically, if they enter at more than 5 deg. an elephant can't pull some in.

This is all off memory, please don't ask for a ref. :no:


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> For the purist in the crowd, there are tables and formulas about pulling wire into conduit.
> 
> The most important factor is how straight the wires enter. That's called the "critical angle". Basically, if they enter at more than 5 deg. an elephant can't pull some in.
> 
> This is all off memory, please don't ask for a ref. :no:


Or how the wires enter the conduit together. If they start overlapping each other and changing position it will definitely cause a harder pull especially in flex.


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## RobRoy (Aug 6, 2009)

This is what you get for not using conduit. :whistling2:
Any real electrician should know that. :whistling2:

Proper head makeup in flex is very important. I just pulled almost 20 #14 thhn conductors and 8 Belden 4 conductor cables into 1" seal tite 20 feet. Granted that seal tite, and flex are different, I still accomplishe this by myself. :thumbup:


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

RobRoy said:


> This is what you get for not using conduit. :whistling2:
> Any real electrician should know that. :whistling2:
> 
> Proper head makeup in flex is very important. I just pulled almost 20 #14 thhn conductors and 8 Belden 4 conductor cables into 1" seal tite 20 feet. Granted that seal tite, and flex are different, I still accomplishe this by myself. :thumbup:


Well aren't you just the greatest? lol:thumbup:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

CanadianSparky said:


> Well aren't you just the greatest? lol:thumbup:


I think next time I see him I'm going to get his autograph. :whistling2:



:laughing:


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## pugz134 (Nov 8, 2010)

Unless the suspended ceiling is a Sheetrock suspended ceiling with no access points, there is no good reason to run 50 feet of greenfield. I'm calling hack on this. 50 feet of 3/4 emit can be installed rather easily in a drop ceiling. 

I will now sit back and wait for the pipe haters.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Here is one way to do it by yourself. This was only a set of 10's in 1/2" so I could easily pull them off the spools. 

1. Lay it out straight and push the fish thru.











2. Secure the flex and pull in the wires (wired to step)


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I tried snaking (8) #12 THHN through 3/4" NM flex the other day and holy crap never again!! :no:


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## greenman (Apr 20, 2012)

Should of used tec cable? no wire to pull.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

220/221 said:


> Here is one way to do it by yourself. This was only a set of 10's in 1/2" so I could easily pull them off the spools.
> 
> 1. Lay it out straight and push the fish thru.
> 
> ...


I almost thirty years in the trade I have never ran a piece of flex that long for a permanent installation.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> I almost thirty years in the trade I have never ran a piece of flex that long for a permanent installation.


This was a service call turned into an installation. I didn't have any 10/3 MC on the truck but I had 10 thhn and flex so....

A couple of other cases where I may use long flex if I have to fish a larger than 30A pool circuit thru an attic crawl space. Conduit is required so it gets flex. Same with some solar systems.


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## RobRoy (Aug 6, 2009)

CanadianSparky said:


> Well aren't you just the greatest? lol:thumbup:


Yeah I am. That's why I said it. :thumbup:

Jeff, give me a call when you come back to California. We will ride our motorcycles again, BBQ, and drink some more whiskey!:thumbup:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

RobRoy said:


> Yeah I am. That's why I said it. :thumbup:
> 
> Jeff, give me a call when you come back to California. We will ride our motorcycles again, BBQ, and drink some more whiskey!:thumbup:


I'm back. I'll give you a buzz this weekend. 

That sounds like a terrible time. Not sure I could handle it :laughing:


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## RobRoy (Aug 6, 2009)

Hit me up.


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

wrightch said:


> Should of used tec cable? no wire to pull.


Read what he was pulling.....good luck getting teck with those conductors and quantity as well


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

RobRoy said:


> This is what you get for not using conduit. :whistling2:
> Any real electrician should know that. :whistling2:
> 
> Proper head makeup in flex is very important. I just pulled almost 20 #14 thhn conductors and 8 Belden 4 conductor cables into 1" seal tite 20 feet. Granted that seal tite, and flex are different, I still accomplishe this by myself. :thumbup:





John Valdes said:


> Should have used conduit.



What do you guys think the C in FMC means? :brows:


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## RobRoy (Aug 6, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> What do you guys think the C in FMC means? :brows:


Says the plumber.....:whistling2:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

swimmer said:


> I'm having trouble pulling qty 5 #10 and qty 3 #12 stranded wire through 50' of 3/4" flex conduit in a suspended ceiling. The run is pretty straight except for a few mild sags between straps due to strapping locations I couldn't access.
> 
> First I used wire pulling string and then I tried one of those baskets with the same string. Nothing is braking but I can only push / pull about 20' before I get stuck.
> 
> ...


If you can't find a way to pull the flex tight and preferably straight, you are going to have a bad time with it. 
You might consider carrying a couple of bundles of EMT on that big truck. The flex thing is just setting you up for frustration.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> I tried snaking (8) #12 THHN through 3/4" NM flex the other day and holy crap never again!! :no:



I pulled qty 6 #12 Thhn through 20' of 1/2" Flex with no lube and no problem, about a month ago.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

The weight of the added 10's changes the game a bit..


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## MaxFuse (Oct 23, 2011)

RobRoy said:


> Says the plumber.....:whistling2:


I was taught early on that water and electricity don't mix. :no:


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> What do you guys think the C in FMC means? :brows:


Crap


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

MaxFuse said:


> I was taught early on that water and electricity don't mix. :no:


Why do you hate fun?

:laughing:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Get a round lead ball sinker and shove your fish tape into it, then push it through the flex.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

swimmer said:


> I pulled qty 6 #12 Thhn through 20' of 1/2" Flex with no lube and no problem, about a month ago.


Hired!


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## D-Bo (Apr 15, 2012)

swimmer said:


> I'm having trouble pulling qty 5 #10 and qty 3 #12 stranded wire through 50' of 3/4" flex conduit in a suspended ceiling. The run is pretty straight except for a few mild sags between straps due to strapping locations I couldn't access.
> 
> First I used wire pulling string and then I tried one of those baskets with the same string. Nothing is braking but I can only push / pull about 20' before I get stuck.
> 
> ...


Your problem is having 50 feet of flex. Who does that


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

swimmer said:


> Qty 3 #12 THHN = 25.743 sqmm
> Qty 5 #10 THHN = 68.050 sqmm
> ------------------------------
> Total Wire Area = 93.793 sqmm
> ...


How do tables lie when in this case the item(s) are a measureable constant? 

Post 10 gave the first correct answer to any type of wires or raceways!

I don't know why you stayed in mm's? You didn't say exactly which type of #10.

I assumed LFMC.

What a Iphone Southwire App showed was you are a little over 23% of an allowable 40% of possible fill ratio. Jam probability (low)!


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Because the wire type and NM flex type was not given no assumptions were taken on my part.

The more general statement on my part was that even if one stayed within the Tables (Code) some pulls with multiple bends up to the legal 360 deg can be very difficult. I always bump up a conduit size, if possible.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

CADPoint said:


> How do tables lie when in this case the item(s) are a measureable constant?
> 
> Post 10 gave the first correct answer to any type of wires or raceways!
> 
> ...


His calcs are correct, better run the app again.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> I almost thirty years in the trade I have never ran a piece of flex that long for a permanent installation.


Thanks for your input Sabrina.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

RobRoy said:


> Says the plumber.....:whistling2:


the truth hurts. :thumbup:


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## sasglm (Oct 4, 2018)

*Liquidtight Flexible*

i'm running 3 8awg THHN wire and one 10awg down 500ft of this 1in Liquidtight, thankfully it comes in 100ft sections with a PVC joint that can be removed so i'm only doing 100ft at a time in my backyard before i bury it.

i stagard the wires and sucked a nylon string through the 100ft. i then attached one end of the string to a metal post in the ground and the other wrapped around the wires. i used the pipe to pull on and feed the wires in from one end and every ~15-20ft i'd have to go back to the post and pull the pipe back and take the slack out of the string. About half way i did put a dab of vaseline on the wires the help them slide. I found that by kinda whipping the pipe up and down that the wires would loosen up and slide better when pulling. i got all 100ft in in maybe 15min this way 4 more to go:smile:
gary


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

sasglm said:


> i'm running 3 8awg THHN wire and one 10awg down 500ft of this 1in Liquidtight, thankfully it comes in 100ft sections with a PVC joint that can be removed so i'm only doing 100ft at a time in my backyard before i bury it.
> 
> i stagard the wires and sucked a nylon string through the 100ft. i then attached one end of the string to a metal post in the ground and the other wrapped around the wires. i used the pipe to pull on and feed the wires in from one end and every ~15-20ft i'd have to go back to the post and pull the pipe back and take the slack out of the string. About half way i did put a dab of vaseline on the wires the help them slide. I found that by kinda whipping the pipe up and down that the wires would loosen up and slide better when pulling. i got all 100ft in in maybe 15min this way 4 more to go:smile:
> gary


This site is for electrical pros only. Call an electrician or post on...
https://www.diychatroom.com/


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

sasglm said:


> i'm running 3 8awg THHN wire and one 10awg down 500ft of this 1in Liquidtight, thankfully it comes in 100ft sections with a PVC joint that can be removed so i'm only doing 100ft at a time in my backyard before i bury it.
> 
> i stagard the wires and sucked a nylon string through the 100ft. i then attached one end of the string to a metal post in the ground and the other wrapped around the wires. i used the pipe to pull on and feed the wires in from one end and every ~15-20ft i'd have to go back to the post and pull the pipe back and take the slack out of the string. About half way i did put a dab of vaseline on the wires the help them slide. I found that by kinda whipping the pipe up and down that the wires would loosen up and slide better when pulling. i got all 100ft in in maybe 15min this way 4 more to go:smile:
> gary


I am going close this thread due this is a old thread and you need to watch the date and also for homeowners .,, please go to our sister site .,

www.diychatroom.com 


Click on that link and go from there. 


thread is close now.


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