# Grounding at a lift station.



## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

Why not follow the as-builts? Are you trying to shave costs, or did the engineer over-engineer the plan?


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Well there is undoubtedly much concrete to be placed as a slab and as bored holes or footings. Be sure to tie all the rebar in as a unit and make it into a Ufer system. With as as much lightning activity as there is in Florida, I'm not sure how well a Ufer will hold up dumping that energy into the ground time after time.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

460 Delta said:


> With as as much lightning activity as there is in Florida, I'm not sure how well a Ufer will hold up dumping that energy into the ground time after time.


I've never heard of this concern before. Do you have some experience with failed Ufers? This is not a challenge, just never heard about it (of course that doesn't mean anything either since I had a pigeon holed career.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

cuba_pete said:


> Why not follow the as-builts? Are you trying to shave costs, or did the engineer over-engineer the plan?


Still haven't found the original as-builts and we like over-engineered so that's not a problem. 

460 is correct about us getting hit by lightning. Its not even a case of when its a case of how often it will happen.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

Before the days of Ufer grounds, it was common to have a buried ground ( grounding electrode) encircle the entire building and attach to the building structure at multiple locations. You still see this on large, metal, industrial buildings.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I would just start over with a new grounding electrode. Don't waist your time with the old one if it got all tore up. Ufer ground would probably be the best if a slab is going in. You might consider a *Lightning protection systems* if required. I guess it's not a simple process but at least should be considered. The RE should come up with a design for that or maybe the city might have some insight if lightning is an issue. Here is an interesting read from the........ Lightning Protection Institute


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

oldsparky52 said:


> I've never heard of this concern before. Do you have some experience with failed Ufers? This is not a challenge, just never heard about it (of course that doesn't mean anything either since I had a pigeon holed career.


No hands on with this, but I’ve read that the massive discharge will turn entrained water in the concrete to steam and cause blowouts trying to vent. 
Really the only reason I “know” something about this is I’m in the r-mix biz and I notice things when the two trades collide.


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

The Ufer was originally only used in desert type locations with soil (sand) with low moisture content. I assume that some entity decided that if a Ufer ground works in the desert, we should use them everywhere - even if there are better existing methods for most soil types.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

460 Delta said:


> No hands on with this, but I’ve read that the massive discharge will turn entrained water in the concrete to steam and cause blowouts trying to vent.
> Really the only reason I “know” something about this is I’m in the r-mix biz and I notice things when the two trades collide.


I think @drsparky had some pictures of blown up tower bases from lightning.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

No ground rods to channel lightning, boiled moisture in the concrete, steam expanded, boom.








Another hit on a Ufer.


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