# Being asked to install Fixture with no UL or ETL listing



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Around these parts our code book says that we need to use listed items and only connect listed items...


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I agree, I would not install it. If it's a high end house and they HAVE to have it they could get it field evaluated. Once they see that price they might find something else. "For your safety and my license I can't install it, sorry". 

If the stupid thing catches fire your on the hook. Someone dies in the fire your in serious trouble.

I don't even like how some of the listed stuff looks when I open it up. Especially the crap from China


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I agree, I would not install it. If it's a high end house and they HAVE to have it they could get it field evaluated.


I never thought of that but if it's a custom design from an artist that's definitely the way to go, they might even spring for it. I was assuming it was some junky pretty product the designer saw online and had to have. 

I wouldn't install it. I'd tell them in writing that it's not code compliant to install, and that you just put a temporary keyless on for now so the work is done and they have some kind of light until they get a compliant fixture. For $15 you / they can get an LED fixture that spins into the keyless and looks less awful in the mean time.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Have you had the conversation with them that it's not an approved fixture?

Sometimes people get stuff cheap from online and have no idea, and when theyfind out they dont want it installed.

When I've done it, I've told them verbally that I'm not responsible, but have not put anything in writing.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

With whom is your contract? That is where your responsibility lies not to the designer.

I did electrical inspections for a university and walked into a building with 70 chain hung fixtures with no ground wires that were made by students. I cut the cord off of every one of them. When the screams started I directed them to minimum safety standards by the university. Which was a published document that every employee had to agree to adhear and enforce. There was a lot of really pissed off people that quarter. Next quarter every light had a connected ground. We let it slide.

I would refuse to whom you have your contract with. Explain clearly and politely as you can.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

Every time I have had to explain to a client that the item he/she purchased is not U.L. listed and possibly a fire hazard they have never argued with me. I will have to say that I rarely pick up any new clients and have a great relationship with the many, many one's that I have. Hmm, come to think of it we did pick up one new HO recently and the lady lied to me about my guy not showing up on time. She had a real attitude... we won't be going back there... ever. Down through the years it has been fun to fire some clients.


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

It's our responsibility to follow industry standards, codes etc. So site all regulations, send it in writing & maintain good records. Offer solutions like field cert etc. But above all cya. Been through this with historical landmarks.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Don't expose yourself to risk.


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## dvpvic (Jul 23, 2021)

dspiffy said:


> Have you had the conversation with them that it's not an approved fixture?
> 
> Sometimes people get stuff cheap from online and have no idea, and when theyfind out they dont want it installed.
> 
> When I've done it, I've told them verbally that I'm not responsible, but have not put anything in writing.


Yes, I actually dont deal with the homeowner, only with a interior designer who then communicates it to my GC then it gets to me.


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

Try to do everything in writing, email, text screenshots etc.😉


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Much as I would agree with the anti-NRTL sentiment I will point this out. The low voltage lighting market is an absolute mess. It is genuinely hard to find Listed parts. I mean it’s simply unavailable or what’s available is not functional at any price. Try to find a decent size 12 VDC power supply or those commercial or semi-commercial in ground lights in 12 VDC. It is very hard to find it.

That’s far different from a lot of 120 V stuff out there sold even by otherwise reputable vendors. I don’t know what it is but lighting in particular is really, really bad about this. It’s not like you see a bunch of non-Listed space heaters every fall on the shelves.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

paulengr said:


> Much as I would agree with the anti-NRTL sentiment I will point this out. The low voltage lighting market is an absolute mess. It is genuinely hard to find Listed parts. I mean it’s simply unavailable or what’s available is not functional at any price. Try to find a decent size 12 VDC power supply or those commercial or semi-commercial in ground lights in 12 VDC. It is very hard to find it.
> 
> That’s far different from a lot of 120 V stuff out there sold even by otherwise reputable vendors. I don’t know what it is but lighting in particular is really, really bad about this. It’s not like you see a bunch of non-Listed space heaters every fall on the shelves.


Allied Electronics has multitudes of 12 vdc power supplies in stock.
I use mainly the Phoenix Contact brand in our machinery.



https://www.alliedelec.com/view/search?keyword=12%20vdc%20power%20supply%20pheonix%20contact


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

"There's only 2 things lighting can be, broken or wrong"
From my lighting rep


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## dvpvic (Jul 23, 2021)

When talking to some of my local contractors they seem to careless what they hang, when I asked what they do in situations like mine. Which surprises me, why take the liability 


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