# Will this clear a 3 1/2" wall?



## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

*STUPID QUESTION ALERT*

i need to mount a 5" box (4-11/16) box at my parents place and im going to use one of the Caddy brackets.

The last time i used one of these was maybe 4 years ago. i know on paper 2-1/8 + ~1/2" it should fit in a regular 3-1/2" stud wall. but i remember using these while roughing in and some walls had clearance issues when using a deep box...i just cant remember what size the walls had clearance issues.

I just dont want to go to my parents place this weekend to find out it wont fit especially since all the supply houses are closed on Saturdays


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

The usual residential way to mount a 4 11/16 box is with a 2x4 on any 
2 sides of the box. 2 screws into each 2x4. The box will mount easily in
2x4 wall. Usually mounted about 3/8" proud. Your cable can come into 
the box anywhere except the back. If it's for a stove, the center of the 
box should be no higher than 130mm AFF so that it sits in the 
area behind the stove drawer.


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

PlugsAndLights said:


> The usual residential way to mount a 4 11/16 box is with a 2x4 on any
> 2 sides of the box. 2 screws into each 2x4. The box will mount easily in
> 2x4 wall. Usually mounted about 3/8" proud. Your cable can come into
> the box anywhere except the back. If it's for a stove, the center of the
> ...


i could have sworn it was against code to screw through/out the box unless it was through the back


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

314.23(B)(1) Nails and Screws. Nails and screws, where used as a
fastening means, shall be attached by using brackets on the
outside of the enclosure, or they shall pass through the
interior within 6 mm (1⁄4 in.) of the back or ends of the
enclosure. Screws shall not be permitted to pass through the
box unless exposed threads in the box are protected using
approved means to avoid abrasion of conductor insulation.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

chknkatsu said:


> i could have sworn it was against code to screw through/out the box unless it was through the back


Not sure how similar your NEC is to our CEC, but the rules here
do not disallow this and in fact, in some cases, require that boxes 
be fasten on at least 2 sides. Takes a fair bit of force to insert or
withdraw a stove or dryer plug. Not good if the box comes loose.


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

this is going to be for two switches.

im set on this method with the caddy bracket unless i have fitment issues


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

chknkatsu said:


> 314.23(B)(1) Nails and Screws. Nails and screws, where used as a
> fastening means, shall be attached by using brackets on the
> outside of the enclosure, or they shall pass through the
> interior within 6 mm (1⁄4 in.) of the back or ends of the
> ...


That rule is talking about where a screw passes from one side of the box to the other. Like if you put a screw through a hole one the left side from the outside of the box then passed that screw all the way through the box on the right side. It's saying that either you put the screw to the back of the box or the threads have to be covered so the wires don't get damaged.

Just putting a screw from inside a box on the side straight into a stud is permissible and done everyday. There is nothing exposed to damage the wires. Only the screw head and it doesn't stick out enough to hurt the wires. The rule is all about the sharp threads on a screw.


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

A Little Short said:


> That rule is talking about where a screw passes from one side of the box to the other. Like if you put a screw through a hole one the left side from the outside of the box then passed that screw all the way through the box on the right side.


I'm trying to figure out one instance where that would be necessary or ever done.:blink:


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Missouri Bound said:


> I'm trying to figure out one instance where that would be necessary or ever done.:blink:


I've seen it in some old installations. Usually an old metal box with a nail all the way through. Can't say I've ever seen one with a screw. Must have been done though or they wouldn't have made a code rule for it.


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## Missouri Bound (Aug 30, 2009)

A Little Short said:


> I've seen it in some old installations. Usually an old metal box with a nail all the way through. Can't say I've ever seen one with a screw. Must have been done though or they wouldn't have made a code rule for it.


You're right. As soon as I read your response it made me think of some old old work I've seen. I suspect it's not done very often anymore. But I moved to southern Missouri a few years back and have seen some things that have never been done right or safe yet they still work. I've seen entrance cable pushed through a hole in a wall to a 60 amp panel supported by wires twisted around nails. Hillbilly service entrance at it's finest. And 30 amp fuses screwed into a 15 amp circuit because those damn electric heaters kept blowin' fuses. And just about every fire around here is electrical.....go figure.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

chknkatsu said:


> this is going to be for two switches.
> 
> im set on this method with the caddy bracket unless i have fitment issues
> 
> ...


How do you fit two switches on a 4 11/16 box?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

99cents said:


> How do you fit two switches on a 4 11/16 box?


Double gang mud ring.

Some of the newer smart switches are volume pigs -- which may be the reason for his selection.

&&&&&&&

As for the original post: the Caddy brackets are designed to handled shallow and deep 4sq and 4-11 metallic boxes. The depth is set by bending the wings at their slots.

I've installed gazillion of them.


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

telsa said:


> Double gang mud ring.
> 
> Some of the newer smart switches are volume pigs -- which may be the reason for his selection.
> 
> ...




i just want to make sure that extra 1/2" behind the box will clear the wall behind it. im assuming it would


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

telsa said:


> Double gang mud ring.
> 
> Some of the newer smart switches are volume pigs -- which may be the reason for his selection.
> 
> ...


Never seen a mud ring for a 4 11/16 box. Carry on...


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

99cents said:


> Never seen a mud ring for a 4 11/16 box. Carry on...




really? we use them all the time


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

chknkatsu said:


> i just want to make sure that extra 1/2" behind the box will clear the wall behind it. im assuming it would


Those 4-11/16 boxes (called 11B around here) are the same depth as a deep 1900 box. Don't sweat it, there is plenty of room.
Also the 2-1/8 deep measurement only needs to fit into the 3-1/2" cavity, that extra 1/2" mud ring that you noted, only goes from the back on the drywall to the front. Which means that after you have your 2-1/8" box in the wall, you will have 1-3/8" of open space behind it.

I tend to you those 11B boxes on electric ranges fairly often, and my other kitchen home run boxes.


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

Mshow1323 said:


> Those 4-11/16 boxes (called 11B around here) are the same depth as a deep 1900 box. Don't sweat it, there is plenty of room.
> Also the 2-1/8 deep measurement only needs to fit into the 3-1/2" cavity, that extra 1/2" mud ring that you noted, only goes from the back on the drywall to the front. Which means that after you have your 2-1/8" box in the wall, you will have 1-3/8" of open space behind it.
> 
> I tend to you those 11B boxes on electric ranges fairly often, and my other kitchen home run boxes.




my worry isnt the mud ring. the bracket goes behind the box. so it adds another 1/2" behind the box in the wall


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

chknkatsu said:


> my worry isnt the mud ring. the bracket goes behind the box. so it adds another 1/2" behind the box in the wall


ooooh, I see now. It still won't be an issue, but I personally would mount it with a 2x4, it will be much more rigid than that flimsy bracket.


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

Mshow1323 said:


> ooooh, I see now. It still won't be an issue, but I personally would mount it with a 2x4, it will be much more rigid than that flimsy bracket.




you would be surprised. those brackets are very sturdy when mounted right. also, it will be for two switches not outlets, so pressure applied to it will be limited...unless someone decides to punch it


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Mshow1323 said:


> ooooh, I see now. It still won't be an issue, but I personally would mount it with a 2x4, it will be much more rigid than that flimsy bracket.


The compression from the inside face of the dry wall and the Caddy bracket makes the assembly surprisingly steady after it's rocked.

You do want to get your depth right -- which is why the 'wings' have the measurement slots. When you bend them just so -- you are dead on the mark.

These brackets are very much faster to install... so much so that wood is shunned in my neck of the woods.

They also involve only 'face screwing' -- so your cordless is easy to place on its target.


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## chknkatsu (Aug 3, 2008)

yup those brackets are awesome back when i was an apprentice boxing out kitchens and bathrooms in buildings where they needed the switch or outlet to be places in awful spots. snap the bracket together and you can put it where ever you want


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

The only time those brackets are a problem is when there is another box back to back. Also when there is a plumbing waste or vent pipe in the same bay. 

Like tesla said the box is held tight against the rock so it does not wobble. They are held better than bracket boxes that need the far side box support. They come in handy when there is nothing behind the box for the far side support to touch. There is no problem with using them with 30 and 50 amp receptacles. 

I would bring along a Caddy RBS16 and an H4 just in case there is an obstruction in the stud bay.


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