# Need NEC cite on riser requirements for panels



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

unless there is a tide that floods the building (datum plane), no requirement I know of for the bottom. A lot of places call for 4 or 6" house keeping pads, but i don't believe that is in the NEC.


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## IMM_Doctor (Mar 24, 2009)

Tne NEC NFPA 70 is intendeded for premisies wiring and NOT industrial machinery. 

The NEC NFPA 70 has only two sections for industrial control panels/ machinery.


See Article 409
See Article 670

Neither of the above articles dictate or require "housekeeping pads".

If the AHJ is asking for houskeeping pads, tell him (her) to "cite" why.

IMHO.... Not Required.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Mount the enclosure so the guy that comes in behind you can stand up when troubleshooting or resetting OL's or breakers.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

IMM_Doctor said:


> Tne NEC NFPA 70 is intendeded for premisies wiring and NOT industrial machinery.
> 
> .


Please cite a code reference that says that the NEC is not intended for industrial machinery. I would very much like to see that.


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## IMM_Doctor (Mar 24, 2009)

wildleg said:


> Please cite a code reference that says that the NEC is not intended for industrial machinery. I would very much like to see that.


NFPA 70 National Electrical Code - See Article 90.2 Scope

If you are looking for Industrial Machinery specifically. There is a NFPA STANDARD. See NFPA 79


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

IMM_Doctor said:


> NFPA 70 National Electrical Code - See Article 90.2 Scope
> 
> If you are looking for Industrial Machinery specifically. There is a NFPA STANDARD. See NFPA 79


I cannot find the exclusion of Industrial machinery anywhere in 90.2 except for very specific items. Can you please quote the portion of 90.2 that you believe exempts this from the NEC in the 2011 codebook?


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## IMM_Doctor (Mar 24, 2009)

*AHJ and Scope*

It is not a matter of industrial machinery being excluded, but..

The AHJ can only enforce CODES specifically covered by the SCOPE of the NFPA70 NEC code.

In an industrial facility, the AHJ can scrutinize and enfoce CODES with equipment attached to the premises, and the supply conductors up to the industrial machine, but after the disconnect of the machine, the AHJ has no authority.

The end user, OSHA, the end users Insurance company may dictate enfocement of consensus standards, but the local coommunity electrical inspector has NO weight, other than article 409 and 670, which amount to only proper, and permanant sinage with succinct information regarding FLA and SCCR etc.

I am not trying to be argumentitive, but merely pointing out the existing "line-in-the-sand" which the AHJ can not enforce.

NFPA79 is a STANDARD, and not an enfoceble code, but could be looked at, during litigation, after the fact, if an injury were incurred due to negligence of a "consensus standard.


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## IMM_Doctor (Mar 24, 2009)

*Summary*

Ny default
The NEC does not cover everyting in the universe, (unless exempted),
Clock Radios
Cell Phones
TVs
Boats
Ships
Hot Air Ballons 
Airplanes
Gocarts
Cars
Tents
Doghouses


The NEC NFPA 70
ONLY covers what is exactly described in the SCOPE of 90.2
Industrial machinery is NOT identified in 90.2


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

IMM_Doctor said:


> Ny default
> The NEC does not cover everyting in the universe, (unless exempted),
> Clock Radios
> Cell Phones
> ...


well, you have now gone from making wrong generalized statements to specifically wrong statements.

Industrial machines, per se, are not excluded from the scope of the NEC. Certain machines, under certain conditions are excepted, and under certain conditions of use certain installations are excepted. 90.2 does not even address "industrial machinery', except for certain exceptions. 

in your statement above, while it is true, as you can read from 90.2, that airplanes, boats, and so forth are outside the scope of the NEC, Tents and doghouses are very often within it's scope. 

I suggest you read 70E a little more, because your original vast generalization was wholly incorrect, and might cause you to make grave errors in your work if you don't realize how wrong it is. not trying to be a jerk, just throwing it out there.


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## IMM_Doctor (Mar 24, 2009)

I suggest you read 70E a little more, because your original vast generalization was wholly incorrect, and might cause you to make grave errors in your work if you don't realize how wrong it is. not trying to be a jerk, just throwing it out there.[/quote]

This previous discussion was about NFPA 70 NEC (National Electrical Code) Enfocable CODES.
The local AHJ has authority to cite CODES.

NFPA 70E: Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, is a "consensus standard", and not an CODE. NFPA70E is typically pushed by the emplyers insurance provider, to reduce injuies due to unsafe electrical work practicices.

When did we change the subject?


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