# Manipulating Dry Contacts



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Signal A needs to close when normal power is lost and backup power is supplied, without any programmed delays.

I have to assume this is an old switch that you are modifying
Use the power going to the Light that indicated generator power is supplied.

The return to normal can be taken from the power returning from the utility.
Set the time delay as needed in the new relay


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I don't quite understand the last sentence of your post but I think I see what you're trying to do. 

To avoid confusion lets call the outputs on the ATS "a" and "b" and the inputs on the elevator control "A" and "B" and I am assuming they are as you say dry, the ATS doesn't supply any power, just closure. 

You want to wire "b" in parallel to B and a relay coil, and wire "a" in series with the N/C contacts on that relay. That gives you "B" = a and !b which is what you want. 

The hitch would be, you'll need power on "b" to operate the coil, so assuming "b" is dry, it has to be rated for the voltage and current the relay will draw, and "B" has to be OK with that voltage as well. 

But the real hitch would be, it's an elevator and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, unless the ATS company, the elevator company and God himself blessed this relay and power supply in triplicate.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Does that ATS have an in-phase monitor? 
If so, it may take longer then 30 sec to retransfer to normal. 
What model ATS is it? 
What are you trying to accomplish. 
What did your electrician say about it?


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## DumbGC (May 6, 2016)

I'm not touching the elevator, only supply the two sequenced signals as described.

The ATS has in-phase monitoring and does so for a preset amount of time. That's how I'm able to send the 30 second warning for pending return to normal power.

The ATS is an ASCO/Emerson 7000 series, J frame. The ATS is not capable of being programmed to accomplish the signal sequence. I will have to modify the signals after they leave the ATS.

What am I trying to accomplish? I'm trying to get my electrician to meet the requirements of the contract they signed and send the correct signals and power to the elevator control cabinets. What will the correct signal sequence accomplish? "A" will allow the elevator to know that it is running on back-up emergency power. The elevator will activate lamp indicators to let potential users know that the elevator is on back-up power. "B", in addition to lighting up the indicator lamp, will tell the elevator cab to go to its fire recall stop and hold until the remaining balance of the 30 seconds expires, so that no one in the cab would experience any hard stops, as well as the cab and controller protecting itself against possible surges.

No offense to those here trying to help, but if my electrician had said anything useful, I wouldn't be here, would I?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I'll share one with you my old man shared with me on many occasions: If you're going to be dumb, you gotta be tough. 

Whoever is responsible for the mismatched the transfer switch and the elevator controls dropped the ball. If it was in someone's spec, then go after them to make it right, if it wasn't in anyone's spec, then this is the downside of being Dumb, GC. 

Building a go-between control may be pretty easy electrically / electronically, but could be at best a liability exposure and at worst breaks the law. 

Did the electrician tell you to replace the transfer switch with one that's suitable for the elevator controls?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I see, you want free advice on how to go after your electrician.


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## DumbGC (May 6, 2016)

I most definitely am not trying to go after the electrician. Just trying get a potential solution for the issue. My electrician's solution is to put the elevator tech and the switch tech, and I quote, "...in a locked room and let them hash it out..."


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Now you know you have a good electrician :thumbsup:

Let the others hash it out ... Remember to get an Engineer to 'stamp' whatever drawing they come up with  (Translation .... no Eng will do that ... you need to buy compatible equip. )


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

DumbGC said:


> I most definitely am not trying to go after the electrician. Just trying get a potential solution for the issue. My electrician's solution is to put the elevator tech and the switch tech, and I quote, "...in a locked room and let them hash it out..."


Then let them do just that. 

Problem solved.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Or,,

http://www.emersonnetworkpower.com/.../ASCO7000SeriesPowerMonitoringandControl.aspx


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> Then let them do just that.
> 
> Problem solved.


I agree. 

Since this is not a DIY question I will not post the DIY disclaimer. Either way, this is outside the scope of this forum.


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