# Wiha Insulated Screwdrivers



## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know, at my local Sears I saw a set of 6 Insulated Wiha screwdrivers for like $35...seems like a damn good price to me. If I didnt already have a few insulated drivers, I would have bought them.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to let you know, at my local Sears I saw a set of 6 Insulated Wiha screwdrivers for like $35...seems like a damn good price to me. If I didnt already have a few insulated drivers, I would have bought them.


 Thats a good deal they are $60 bucks at grainger.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Why do you want an insulated screwdriver? There is almost no legal use for them.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Why do you want an insulated screwdriver? There is almost no legal use for them.


Not true. I use insulated tools all the time. I've got a tool box for my 1000v stuff and I am in there probably once a week.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> Not true. I use insulated tools all the time. I've got a tool box for my 1000v stuff and I am in there probably once a week.


Why would you need them so often?

Most employees are prevented from working on energized equipment?


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Why would you need them so often?
> 
> Most employees are prevented from working on energized equipment?


I do quite a bit of work in Data Centers. Even though power is redundant, not all clients utilize the redundancy. So to add a breaker, the gloves go on.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> Not true. I use insulated tools all the time. I've got a tool box for my 1000v stuff and I am in there probably once a week.


 I am not saying you don't use them. I am saying it is a very rare case where the electrical safe work rules of OSHA and 70E permit you to work on energized equipment.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> I do quite a bit of work in Data Centers. Even though power is redundant, not all clients utilize the redundancy. So to add a breaker, the gloves go on.


 It is unlikely that that work is pemitted by the electrical safe work rules.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> It is unlikely that that work is pemitted by the electrical safe work rules.


Even though I am exempt from OSHA rules, doesn't mean I don't take safety seriously. That is why after many years of doing live work, I decided it was definitely worthwhile to invest in 1000v protection. 

Thousands a times a day, guys are subject to live exposure, so why not make sure you have the proper tools?


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

In the UK, everyone uses insulated drivers, you never know when things will go wrong..


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Anyone who works for a company that prohibits hot work is very fortunate indeed. I've worked for 7 companies, a mix of big commercial to little residential and they all either allowed hot work, or discouraged taking time to kill power.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Anyone who works for a company that prohibits hot work is very fortunate indeed. I've worked for 7 companies, a mix of big commercial to little residential and they all either allowed hot work, or discouraged taking time to kill power.


As if you've been through seven companies. 

Most places around here discourage live work. At the end of the day though, it's up to whoever doing the work to make the call.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

jza said:


> At the end of the day though, it's up to whoever doing the work to make the call.


Just wondering jza, in Canada do you guys have a safety enforcement body such as or similar to OSHA to prevent or discourage "hot work"? I know here if they catch you they fine you


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## Legion (Oct 19, 2010)

Englishsparky said:


> In the UK, everyone uses insulated drivers, you never know when things will go wrong..


On a curious note; is there any requirement for the testing of insulated drivers/hand tools in the UK, _after the initial manufacturer testing_.


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## Thedroid (Dec 6, 2010)

I only carry insulated screwdrivers in my pouch. I don't tighten hot connections, but I do feel better with them than without.

If I worked construction than I might feel different, but in my world its usually 480 , and it was usually just energized, or there may be energized parts nearby.


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> Why do you want an insulated screwdriver? There is almost no legal use for them.


GTFO you limp wristed granola munching latte sipping yuppie. This thread is about a deal on some screwdrivers not your wet dream safety fantasy


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

randas said:


> GTFO you limp wristed granola munching latte sipping yuppie. This thread is about a deal on some screwdrivers not your wet dream safety fantasy


Oh wow, wake up on the wrong side of the maple leaf eh? :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Why would you need them so often?
> 
> Most employees are prevented from working on energized equipment?


 Out in the real world that is not the case:whistling2:


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Jesus guys, I was just trying to help you all out..

I use insulated Klein screwdrivers to add breakers in bolt on panels. Yeah, I work hot sometimes. Alot of us do. Get over it. I've had arc-flash classes, I know I'm in danger. I'm just too stupid to do anything about it.

I mean geeze, in Los Angeles, when we do a service upgrade, we hook up the POCO drop live, Department of Water and Power allows it, and its usually the only way to do an upgrade without the customer losing power for two days or more


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Oh wow, wake up on the wrong side of the maple leaf eh? :laughing:


 :laughing::laughingo they have leaf this time of year


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> Jesus guys, I was just trying to help you all out..
> 
> I use insulated Klein screwdrivers to add breakers in bolt on panels. Yeah, I work hot sometimes. Alot of us do. Get over it. I've had arc-flash classes, I know I'm in danger. I'm just too stupid to do anything about it.
> 
> I mean geeze, in Los Angeles, when we do a service upgrade, we hook up the POCO drop live, Department of Water and Power allows it, and its usually the only way to do an upgrade without the customer losing power for two days or more


 I think you found a good deal:thumbsup:


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

Legion said:


> On a curious note; is there any requirement for the testing of insulated drivers/hand tools in the UK, _after the initial manufacturer testing_.


No legion, other then visual inspection before working on something live, nothing worse then having a crack in your driver and touching something live..


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

bduerler said:


> Just wondering jza, in Canada do you guys have a safety enforcement body such as or similar to OSHA to prevent or discourage "hot work"? I know here if they catch you they fine you


 OSHA cannot fine an employee...only the employer.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

randas said:


> GTFO you limp wristed granola munching latte sipping yuppie. This thread is about a deal on some screwdrivers not your wet dream safety fantasy


 A deal on a set of screwdrivers that encourage unsafe work practices.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> A deal on a set of screwdrivers that encourage unsafe work practices.


 
Give it a rest OSHA TROLL!!!!


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

robnj772 said:


> Give it a rest OSHA TROLL!!!!


 I get paid by the hour, the electrical safe work practices make me a lot of money....


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I would say it's not a bad idea to own an insulated tool set. If you can find a good deal on them, great, especially if you don't use them all the time. I don't like spending a lot of money on tools I don't use frequently.


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

Frasbee said:


> I would say it's not a bad idea to own an insulated tool set. If you can find a good deal on them, great, especially if you don't use them all the time. I don't like spending a lot of money on tools I don't use frequently.


I've noticed electrical tools are expensive over here, it's a shame I know a load of good uk sites that sells elec tools cheap..


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> OSHA cannot fine an employee...only the employer.


Thats what I meant but thank you for catching my mistake:thumbsup:


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

bduerler said:


> Just wondering jza, in Canada do you guys have a safety enforcement body such as or similar to OSHA to prevent or discourage "hot work"? I know here if they catch you they fine you


I'm pretty curious too to see if the mouthpiece can even come close to giving you a proper answer...

...if not PM in a couple of days and I'll answer it for him right here in the open. We both live in the same city and I do have the expertise to provide definitive answers he can't possibly hope to come remotely close to. Unless you're looking for more mindless BS.

I can 100% guarantee it.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Mike_586 said:


> I'm pretty curious too to see if the mouthpiece can even come close to giving you a proper answer...
> 
> ...if not PM in a couple of days and I'll answer it for him right here in the open. We both live in the same city and I do have the expertise to provide definitive answers he can't possibly hope to come remotely close to. Unless you're looking for more mindless BS.
> 
> I can 100% guarantee it.


Cool:thumbsup: No im not looking for more BS just knowledge:thumbup: anyway I am going hog hunting and wont be back until Sunday but if has not answered then I will shoot ya a PM


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

Got the PM  

Anyway, here goes...

Yeah up here we have a piece of legislation called OHSA (Occupational Health and Safety Act and its pronounced the same as osha) but its enforced by the Ontario Ministry of Labour (MOL). Since the late 90s the MOL has more than tripled the number of people it has in the field enforcing the regulations, and they enforce more than the safety regulations, they also enforce a few other key pieces of legislation that directly affect us.

The safety regulations aren't a national thing up here but provincial. Each province has its own control over safety regulations and enforcement, though we do have many national standards that all provinces follow i.e. CSA Z462 which is based on NFPA 70E. I forget the proper term for it, but those standards are adopted into our regulations somewhere and non-compliance is enforceable.

Anyway, up here everyone gets fined. The worker, the foreman, the GC, the EC, *everyone*. The fines also get much bigger as they move up the food chain. A $280 for me for having an expired license might be several thousand dollars for the guy at the top of the ladder. Last year the maximum fines were raised to $500,000.00.

The way the laws are here in my particular province, every company that does any kind of construction work has to have a written safety policy weather its an EC, GC, plumber, painter, etc. If your company does construction work, you're legally obligated to have a written safety policy and every single employee is to have reviewed it and signed off on it.

There are other laws, even more frightening ones that kick in when we're talking about workers being directed to do live work. Bill C-45 which isn't a piddly provincial statute, its an amendment to the criminal code of Canada and it carries no maximum financial penalties and no maximum jail terms and its the RCMP and federal court that enforce that law.

The regulations that we face have been seriously tightened up starting in the late 90s. Since that time the MOL over tripled enforcement with teams dedicated to licensing blitzes, safety blitzes, accident investigations, etc., the ESA (electrical safety authority) was formed to take over electrical inspections from Hydro Ontario and they are mandated to take over licensing and licensing enforcement for our trade (inspectors have a minimum of 7 years as certified journeymen with varied experience), amendments were made to the criminal code to hold people in authority who put workers needlessly in danger criminally responsible. And although I haven't mentioned it till now the Consumer Protection Act was seriously beefed up several years ago absorbing the repealed Business Practices Act and even in a civil case a worker can find himself fined up to 20k and/or 6 months of jail should he be found guilty of performing an unconscionable business practice on behalf of the company.

Those are some of the bigger ones, and it should be pretty clear by now that no one has got blanket immunity depending on what law is being applied and how. Listening to fools like jza saying their employer leaves it up to them only makes me laugh at what idiots those men are...

...the companies have their asses covered and if things go wrong, they sure as sh!t won't do a thing to protect them.

The rules for working live have been enforced for a long time now, on the books even longer and jza being an apprentice in Ottawa couldn't possibly have been around at any time it was ever even remotely considered OK for an apprentice to work live in any situation....

....or if he's been an apprentice that long...it would explain a lot.

Now having said all that, every company has their safety policies, every worker has signed off on them, and there are still some fly-by-night outfits that compel guys to work live, and they make it a point to hire weak minded fools who have no self worth who are stupid enough to do it to keep their jobs. The scenario invariably plays out almost the same every time. The worker gets caught. The owners and the foremen pull out the safety policy that the worker signed and swear up and down that they enforce it to the letter, they usually get the other steadies to parrot their story and leave the worker twisting in the breeze and fire his ass (to cover theirs) because its a grounds for immediate dismissal.

A scenario I've personally seen play out on several occasions and in all but one case the employee was the lone guy getting screwed over.

Anyway, generally speaking the workers have a lot of rights up here if they'd just exercise them and tons of protection, warnings are usually the first thing they get. Fines are actually pretty rare, you'd have to be a screw up to start getting fined. The MOL isn't out to target individuals. That said, there are quite a few things that there's a zero tolerance policy on i.e. live work, the education drive as far as MOL agents giving warnings goes, (there are still adds and posters, articles) is long past. The fines for working live are pretty big and can easily set a worker back several years paying it off (think luxury car payments) and the bigger fines that the companies get hit with are enough to bankrupt smaller shops outright.

I might have been a little all over the map on that, but its a lot of material to know...

....those were just the big ones I could think of from memory... there's more :blink:


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