# Another AZ resi service change.



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

It's getting hot here. I drank a gallon of water and still started cramping at about 12:30

Old service....Zinsco 200 amp circa 1980 something. It had a 20A and a couple of 30 amp AC circuits added in the 90's along with a load controller and pool equipment. Kitchen remodel required two more 20's and we threw in a circuit for the smoke detectors we had to add throughout.










POCO disconnected/safed off conductors ar 8AM.


Panel was A) Zinsco and B) jammed with twins. Nice design putting the neutral/ground bus at the bottom. Wires were a MESS down there.










.Pulled the old one off and beat out some block to get some more cable to work with. I HATE wirenuts in a panel.











Panel was mounted by about 10 AM.

Drilled a couple of holes in the back to maximize existing wire length, installed the infamous plastic snap in bushings, bent the rigid pool conduit over a bit and used existing 2" IMC riser. Secured with 3/8" sleeve anchors.










Installed 1 1/2" EMT to a JB under the eave to contain the added circuits. The two I added passed thru NM all the way to the panel. The existing ones were too short so I used THWN. I did not strap/secure the 1 1/2" EMT. (insert clown emote) I DID however install an AFCI on the smokie circuit (cancels out clown emote)

Panel and associated crap were made up by 1:30 PM 

Used up all 40 spaces.












99% of the time, I remove the load controller. This clown wanted it hooked up


I'm not even sure that this type of load controller installation is legal. They take one leg from a 240V load (typically AC's, WH's or dryers) and run it thru a single pole contactor which shuts it down if demand is too high during peak hours.

POCO give a better KWH rate if you keep load down below X KWH during peak hours. The controller is suppose to help with that but I think it's a scam. This one only controlled the dryer and WH.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

looks good...you must get bored doing these(except when you collect the check)...seems like everyone is the same...good job


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Yeah, they all pretty much look alike huh?

Work is slow so I'll take what I can get. I'd much rather do these than cutting in recessed cans. Ugh!


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Really nice job.. I just can't get used to seeing circuit breakers outside like that.

Must be a PITA when on south side of a house


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

This thread is worthless without close-ups of the blue knockout bushings. :laughing:

Nice work.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Yeah, they all pretty much look alike huh?
> 
> Work is slow so I'll take what I can get. I'd much rather do these than cutting in recessed cans. Ugh!


yeah, cut them in by hand too...i like the oldschool approach


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> This thread is worthless without close-ups of the blue knockout bushings. :laughing:
> 
> Nice work.


yeah, thats the 220/221 trademark...seriously though i know i asked you this before...but, what would you use to secure the wires to the panel in this situation?...


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> yeah, thats the 220/221 trademark...seriously though i know i asked you this before...but, what would you use to secure the wires to the panel in this situation?...


You asking me? I do them exactly like he does. Well, sorta.... here in the Northeast we get more rain and snow, but we have very few outdoor panels. Of the one's I've changed out, I use a 1-1/2" or 2" PVC adapter to get a tiny little bit of sleeve (the hub of the adapter) between the panel and back into the wall a little bit. Squirt of spray foam back in there when things are wired up.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> You asking me? I do they exactly like he does. Well, sorta.... here in the Northeast we get more rain and snow, but we have very few outdoor panels. Of the one's I've changed out, I use a 1-1/2" or 2" PVC adapter to get a tiny little bit of sleeve (the hub of the adapter) between the panel and back into the wall a little bit. Squirt of spray foam back in there when things are wired up.


oh ok, thats what we do here as well...i feel a little better about have the male pvc b/c it offers a little more protection from the weather...


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

The shut off one leg of the dryer tick is so that the motor keeps tumbling the clothing while the heating coil is off. This keeps the clothing from wrinkling and getting musty.:thumbsup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Just noticed Line side is the bottom??

The POCO does not want a By-pass meter pan?


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Looks good to me.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I HATE wirenuts in a panel.


Why? You ended up with wirenuts in the panel anyway so who really cares?


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Must be a PITA when on south side of a house


BRUTAL! This one was on the West side so I had shade under the eave until about 1:30. We carry big 6' diameter umbrellas on the trucks to help us out sometimes.




> This thread is worthless without close-ups of the blue knockout bushings


How bout black ones?










.



> what would you use to secure the wires to the panel in this situation?...


The terminals on the ground/neutral bus and breakers???

I don't know if it's written into local code or if, in 60 years, nobody ever said anything. In a pinch, caulk of some type would "secure" them to the enclosure.




> Just noticed Line side is the bottom??


Lugs are at the bottom, Bus runs to the top jaws. This panel is ALMOST a brilliant design. The lugs/bus flip over to convert from underground to overhead application. The huge fault in the design is the black self tapped screw used to attach the bus. When I flip them over I drill them out a bit and install 1/4 20 nuts/bolts/washers.

This old pic shows one leg flipped and one stock.













> The POCO does not want a By-pass meter pan?


Not on resi panels, only commercial.



> Why? You ended up with wirenuts in the panel anyway so who really cares?


Everybody has their "things". I like to end up with a "stock" installation. The only nuts I ended up with were from that freaking load controller and......one other....which is illegal. Care to make an educated guess?


----------



## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Can't see too well from the photo, but I'll guess your GEC.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

WTF? Who would wirenut a GEC? :laughing:

But no. 

Existing ufer is solid #4 and was long enough. H2O bond was new and long enough also. No gas here.

Hint: It is clearly visable in the pics :whistling2:


----------



## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

Cool.....after you knock the block out on jobs like these...what do you do to fill in the holes? Foam? 
I know you dont get a lot of rain, but critters, and such?


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Just noticed Line side is the bottom??
> 
> The POCO does not want a By-pass meter pan?


It's not even 5-jaw! They're so behind the times.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Don't tell me you reconnected the sprinkler controller the same way they had it?!


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> after you knock the block out on jobs like these...what do you do to fill in the holes? Foam?


All I can do is caulk around the panel. The cables need to be loose to manipulate them into place. It's not an easy task when you are trying to work 4 holes and the service conductors are hot. Can bugs get in? Yeah. They can also walk in thru the doors, the screened eave vents and a number of other openings.

And...it's to hot and dry here for bugs :thumbsup:





> Don't tell me you reconnected the sprinkler controller the same way they had it?!


I added a ground but left the UF sprinkler wires :laughing:....but yeah. I also refed the jacuzzi or bath circuit to the right of the panel with sealtite :jester:


Hey, it's equipment. It looks fine.


----------



## lectricboy (Mar 11, 2009)

My inspector would have turned down running all of that romex through two 2" KO'S.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lectricboy said:


> My inspector would have turned down running all of that romex through two 2" KO'S.


 
He does not have any options on how to do the kind of service change to begun with.

Block wall and a one piece meter/panel says it all.

Hopefully the inspectors in that area have a little common sense and don't nit-pick things.


----------



## lectricboy (Mar 11, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> He does not have any options on how to do the kind of service change to begun with.
> 
> Block wall and a one piece meter/panel says it all.
> 
> Hopefully the inspectors in that area have a little common sense and don't nit-pick things.


I'm not picking on him, I can see his delima. I was merely stating what my inspector would do, if his will pass it, more power to him.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

lectricboy said:


> I'm not picking on him, I can see his delima. I was merely stating what my inspector would do, if his will pass it, more power to him.


 
I understand and didn't mean you in my post. :thumbsup:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> My inspector would have turned down running all of that romex through two 2" KO'S.


They are usually run thru one KO but I needed some more cable :thumbup:.

I think we must use an ammended code here. Major metro area, 3.2 million population and this is how installations have been done here since romex was invented.

Long before my time someone probably took a look at this portion of the NEC and came to the logical conclusion that it's a safe and effective installation and they exempted it. I am pretty sure it's standard practice in many areas.

If you have a surface mounted panel and exposed cables, by all means, connect them to the enclosure. If the wiring is concealed, it cant go anywhere.


PS. Since you gave up, my wirenut violation was on the swimming pool light GEC. It must be unbroken and it came up 3" short of the bus so I wirenutted it (bottom right). I have to do this occaisionally but have never been called on it.


----------

