# Outdoor Panels



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Often times it involves the design of the house. Say you live in an area that doesn't have basement or garages. Now you have a simple box house and the back side of where the service is installed may be a bathroom , kitchen, etc. There may not be a good place to install an interior panel.

When I first started wiring we did many outdoor installs but now I may have the main disco out there but the main panels are usually inside. The houses I work on now are much larger with utility rooms, garages, basements, etc.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I hate them outside, but for the reasons Dennis gave we gotta put em outside a lot of times.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

220 lives in arizona and installs mucho outdoor services. Although his jobs look great when done, unfortunately there is no way to legally get your wires into an outdoor panel without butchering the entire siding behind the panel. Many areas turn the other way at this violation-- they do here-- and quite frankly I don't see a real issue with it but it is noncompliant by the NEC.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Is that the whole NM can't be enclosed in any wet location pipe or box argument 'round here. If I told an employer that I needed THHW from a j box to an exterior panel I would be fired. And probably called mean names.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

nolabama said:


> Is that the whole NM can't be enclosed in any wet location pipe or box argument 'round here. If I told an employer that I needed THHW from a j box to an exterior panel I would be fired. And probably called mean names.


I guess one could argue that code but I was thinking about art 312.5(C)



> (C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.


 Of course there are many exceptions after that but none fit this bill.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes that is ignored by the AHJ here also.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mmiller9 said:


> It would appear that in the USA, outdoor panels are very common. I have never seen one here in Canada. Never even heard of such a think until visiting this site in fact. Is there a particular reason for putting panels outside?


It must be a regional thing as I've never actually seen one. All I've ever seen are photos of them.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Residential panels belong outside. Then again, that's my regional opinion. Meter is already there, so it makes sense to put your main and BC's there also. 

The reason they are located inside in the midwest and the east is due to weather. There are a lot of hacks (from what I learned here) on that side of the country and if the homeowner had to constantly go outside in freezing weather to reset a breaker, it wouldn't be good. 

Plus, us on the west coast don't want to be murdered by some movie slasher. When the power goes out in a horror movie, people always go downstairs in the basement to find a blown fuse or tripped breaker. Guess what that means? You're dead. With the branch circuit breakers outside, if something bad goes down, at least you can try to haul ass down the street (and hope you don't trip).


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> Residential panels belong outside.........


....so one needs to get fully dressed just to reset a breaker.:no:

I would get clubbed to death if I put panels outside. No one wants to bundle up in the middle of winter and trudge outside in 4' drifts just to reset a breaker.

Besides, it's a security issue if they're outside.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Plus, us on the west coast don't want to be murdered by some movie slasher. When the power goes out in a horror movie, people always go downstairs in the basement to find a blown fuse or tripped breaker. Guess what that means? You're dead. With the branch circuit breakers outside, if something bad goes down, at least you can try to haul ass down the street (and hope you don't trip).


:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Plus, us on the west coast don't want to be murdered by some movie slasher. When the power goes out in a horror movie, people always go downstairs in the basement to find a blown fuse or tripped breaker. Guess what that means? You're dead. With the branch circuit breakers outside, if something bad goes down, at least you can try to haul ass down the street (and hope you don't trip).


Yeah, but what if the panel is behind some bushes and the murderer is waiting in there for you to come reset the breaker? I bet you didn't think of _that!!_


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

480sparky said:


> ....so one needs to get fully dressed just to reset a breaker.:no:
> 
> I would get clubbed to death if I put panels outside. No one wants to bundle up in the middle of winter and trudge outside in 4' drifts just to reset a breaker.
> 
> Besides, it's a security issue if they're outside.


We don't get 4' drifts around here. It's less than a week to Christmas and it's 75 outside. On the west coast, we go outside all the time in our underwear. Haven't you ever seen an episode of Cops?

The all-in-one panels (the type 220/221 is always installing), have a place for a lock, so no security worries. 

It's definitely a regional thing. If I lived in cold and snow, I would at least swing it around and have it in the garage.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yeah, but what if the panel is behind some bushes and the murderer is waiting in there for you to come reset the breaker? I bet you didn't think of _that!!_


I make sure all bushes that come near my house are neatly trimmed.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> The all-in-one panels (the type 220/221 is always installing), have a place for a lock, so no security worries.


The difference that I see is that you guys in Calif. always recess the in the wall, whereas he installs them surface mount. They look a lot better recessed, but I don't think he is allowed to recess them in Arizona.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The difference that I see is that you guys in Calif. always recess the in the wall, whereas he installs them surface mount. They look a lot better recessed, but I don't think he is allowed to recess them in Arizona.


Because of the extreme heat in the Phoenix area, quite a few houses are build with a CMU exterior, so they are surface mounted. The last job he posted with the stick holding the underground away from the wall for temporary spacing, that is the only time I've seen a residential underground feed that was exterior to the building.

I've worked on a house in Cave Creek, AZ. (north Phoenix metro) and the all-in-one was semi flush. Exterior walls were built with 2 x 10's for additional insulation.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Because of the extreme heat in the Phoenix area, quite a few houses are build with a CMU exterior, so they are surface mounted. The last job he posted with the stick holding the underground away from the wall for temporary spacing, that is the only time I've seen a residential underground feed that was exterior to the building.
> 
> I've worked on a house in Cave Creek, AZ. (north Phoenix metro) and the all-in-one was semi flush. Exterior walls were built with 2 x 10's for additional insulation.


I think John (220/221) said they are not allowed to bring the UG feed up inside the wall like you guys can.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Is there a particular reason for putting panels outside?


It's a really easy/inexpensive installation. Stub all your cables out an exterior wall, mount one piece of equipment and terminate.






> Quote:
> (C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
> Of course there are many exceptions after that but none fit this bill.


We have an exception written into local code that allows this installation. I always thought we just ignored the code but someone found it and posted it a while back.




> I think John (220/221) said they are not allowed to bring the UG feed up inside the wall like you guys can.


Correct. The POCO doesn't allow it anymore. There are a few out there and they let use replace them with semi flush instead of relocating the risers.


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