# Inspector Making me cut out bench



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I've passed at least 6 Services where the panel is at a bench like this one... 

What's your opinion on this , I wasn't aware of clearances below the panel










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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

We have a rehab code that I would allow a panel change to be put there. However I would probably tell the customer that he had to remove the bench before I did the work. My back aches just looking at that.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Overkill In my opinion ... I just need to cut out out past cabinet door ....blahhhh


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Yes. If you cut it along the right edge of the panel and remove everything in front of the panel it will be code compliant.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Inspector may have been thinking about the paint sitting there also.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

I've had customers slide a workbench or similar out of the way just to avoid any potential issue (plus like Hax make it easier on the lower back). 

Unfortunately for you, yours looks built in place.

And yes, I've run into inspectors making an issue about such things. 

Last one was a heating oil tank too close to the panel. Was about 6" shy of the required space and overlapping the panel by about half. Can't remember at the moment if it is 36" or 24", but you get the idea.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

WronGun said:


> Overkill In my opinion ... I just need to cut out out past cabinet door ....blahhhh
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You need a 30" wide x 6'6" hign x 3' clear space minimum directly in front of a panel.

This has been required for a long while.


Ring any bells?:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

```

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Remember that 30" of working space in front of the panel doesn't have to be centered. You can start at either side of the panel. In your situation it would make sense to start it at the right side of the panel.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

That took a whole 10 minutes 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Perfect!

BTW, those images above are good to keep on your iPad for your own reference as well as showing inspectors when they are off.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Perfect!
> 
> BTW, those images above are good to keep on your iPad for your own reference as well as showing inspectors when they are off.




Already saved it 


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

If the HO really wants that counter space they could put a drop-down gate leg type thing in there. 

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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

WronGun said:


> That took a whole 10 minutes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK, he left. Put it back. 

I like it when they put a sprinkler pump under the panel.

I got lucky one time and was able to cut he pipes off low and swing it out of the way by loosening the well union.
Yeah, we put it back. It had been there peacefully since like 1967.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I actually like the way a sewage pipe is usually running horizontally across the wall right underneath the panel. It's comfortable to put my foot on when working in the panel. Like when standing at the bar.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

All that paint ... and no color-match ?

Fie !


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> If the HO really wants that counter space they could put a drop-down gate leg type thing in there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Now that the inspection is done, they will probably put a much bigger table in front of the panel, and a water heater, and an oil tank, and duct work, and a sump pump pit, then a few pipes.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm submitting a code change to prohibit panels in basements. Too damp down there, at least as much as the bathrooms that the code guys decided to declare a hazard back in the early eighties. My whole motivation will be to force Meter/mains. Muhahahahahaha.........


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Now that the inspection is done, they will probably put a much bigger table in front of the panel, and a water heater, and an oil tank, and duct work, and a sump pump pit, then a few pipes.


A sump pump pit is great when you are wiring up a panel and really need to take a leak.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> A sump pump pit is great when you are wiring up a panel and really need to take a leak.



Quit being such an ogre. Use the laundry tray or the washing machine


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> A sump pump pit is great when you are wiring up a panel and really need to take a leak.


Yeah, until you step into it


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I remember seeing 20-20 or some similar show where they were making a huge giant fuss about candid camera's catching service workers in the act of peeing into the laundry trays when no one was around. It went as far as one guy getting arrested and hauled off for it. WTF? Run the water and rince it out and somebody explain to me how this is so awful?


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## inetdog (Apr 13, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> I remember seeing 20-20 or some similar show where they were making a huge giant fuss about candid camera's catching service workers in the act of peeing into the laundry trays when no one was around. It went as far as one guy getting arrested and hauled off for it. WTF? Run the water and rince it out and somebody explain to me how this is so awful?


John Laroquette had a sitcom in which a former white collar bigwig was working as night manager of a downtown bus station after substance abuse rehab.
When asked by someone why he took that job he replied:
"I just got tired of hanging with people who step out of the shower to pee."

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Quit being such an ogre. Use the laundry tray or the washing machine


My legs are too short even with a Scottish Claymore to get into the washer.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

inetdog said:


> John Laroquette had a sitcom in which a former white collar bigwig was working as night manager of a downtown bus station after substance abuse rehab.
> When asked by someone why he took that job he replied:
> "*I just got tired of hanging with people who step out of the shower to pee.*"
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


As I've said before, peeing and pooping in the shower saves a lot of time. Just waffle stomp it thru the drain and go about your business.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> As I've said before, peeing and pooping in the shower saves a lot of time. Just waffle stomp it thru the drain *and go about your business*.


 Literally!


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

For something like that I would tell the customer the rule, and what's required for inspection when walking the job. I seen it called many times. 

I remember 2 panelboards existing in a hotel we had to move. It already passed inspection years before but caught. It was about 1/2" too close to a column in front.

The rule was for all of our benefit.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

You really should have cut a door into the bench. It's really easy.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

MechanicalDVR said:


> My legs are too short even with a Scottish Claymore to get into the washer.



Just have to get the right arch.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

macmikeman said:


> I remember seeing 20-20 or some similar show where they were making a huge giant fuss about candid camera's catching service workers in the act of peeing into the laundry trays when no one was around. It went as far as one guy getting arrested and hauled off for it. WTF? Run the water and rince it out and somebody explain to me how this is so awful?



Not an issue as urine is sterile.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> For something like that I would tell the customer the rule, and what's required for inspection when walking the job. I seen it called many times.
> 
> I remember 2 panelboards existing in a hotel we had to move. It already passed inspection years before but caught. It was about 1/2" too close to a column in front.
> 
> The rule was for all of our benefit.


I can't imagine working in that panel with that bench there.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I can't imagine working in that panel with that bench there.


I would just park my butt on that bench while I work. 
I don't like the paint cans next to the panel when I'm working myself.

Not trying to bust your nuts but that is an interesting way to number the panel. Recycled panel schedules. :001_unsure:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> I would just park my butt on that bench while I work.
> I don't like the paint cans next to the panel when I'm working myself.
> 
> *Not trying to bust your nuts but that is an interesting way to number the panel. Recycled panel schedules*. :001_unsure:


Not my panel not my nuts!


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## inetdog (Apr 13, 2016)

drewsserviceco said:


> Not an issue as urine is sterile.


But once it leaves your body it becomes an excellent growth medium for some bacteria.

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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

WronGun said:


> I've passed at least 6 Services where the panel is at a bench like this one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


at least 6 bad inspections


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

readydave8 said:


> at least 6 bad inspections


Lazy inspector or the envelope was thick....:whistling2:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

WronGun said:


> I've passed at least 6 Services where the panel is at a bench like this one...
> 
> What's your opinion on this , I wasn't aware of clearances below the panel
> 
> ...


You need the clearance. Cut it out so it can pass inspection.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> You need the clearance. Cut it out so it can pass inspection.


You're late to the party, check post #9.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

active1 said:


> I would just park my butt on that bench while I work.
> I don't like the paint cans next to the panel when I'm working myself.
> 
> Not trying to bust your nuts but that is an interesting way to number the panel. Recycled panel schedules. :001_unsure:




I didn't install the panel myself. One of my guys did.

The tags and schedule are temporary as I'm printing a new one and numbering in order... I just had him do this for the day of service. The homeowner really wanted to keep his detailed schedule, so it was one of those rush decisions to just land and remake schedule later 

The circuits closer to the top just made it to the breaker and we did not want to extend circuits in order to keep them in order

( the shortest conductors were landed at the top and worked out way down)


This house is 130 yrs old and still lots of work to do here including removing KT. 

We've already gutted 2 very large bathrooms here. I'll be here for a while.. 


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

I a learned when done with an old schedule is replaced it's best to take the old with you to discard off site. I don't know how many time from resi to big commercial someone take the dang thing out of the trash and puts it back. Tapes in on inside over the new one, on the outside, in the pocket, or just behind the door. Being incorrect from changes it's got to go. But I get office workers wanting to be helpful, here I found this in the trash.

With the clearance you have to watch even a gutter under the panel protruding past, can get tagged.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> I a learned when done with an old schedule is replaced it's best to take the old with you to discard off site. I don't know how many time from resi to big commercial someone take the dang thing out of the trash and puts it back. Tapes in on inside over the new one, on the outside, in the pocket, or just behind the door. Being incorrect from changes it's got to go. But I get office workers wanting to be helpful, here I found this in the trash.
> 
> *With the clearance you have to watch even a gutter under the panel protruding past, can get tagged.*


That would be rather harsh.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That would be rather harsh.


Inspectors can be. I learned the easy way. By fixing others.
Existing work brought up to code.
What's not a big deal to some can be made a big deal by inspectors.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> Inspectors can be. I learned the easy way. By fixing others.
> Existing work brought up to code.
> What's not a big deal to some can be made a big deal by inspectors.


Never failed for that one nor seen it fail when other guys did the work and I was just there to meet the inspector.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Things are different here in Las Vegas MechancalDVR.

It all started in June 2005 with an electrician Fred Frazzetta that got caught "wanting to borrow" 6 light bulbs in his back pack going out the door. He got fired.










Disgruntled Fred called the county about the permitted tower remodel project.
CC inspector supervisor out 6 months later and basically said nothing to see, no permits needed. 

The newspaper ran the story.
To make it worse the CC inspection department responded with a joke about the electrician and said hotels can do their own work without permits.

Then everyone got involved. Metro police, & FBI, for county corruption and endangering lives. OSHA for unlawful asbestos abatement. Contractor board for work without permits. CC Fire dept, State Fire Marshal, deputy fire marshal. Gaming commission for "willful misconduct". County commissioner and attorney general both with investigations of the county inspectors.

The county did a 180 and started closing things down. First the Rio tower. Then a Harris tower. Next the Tropicana got shut down. For safety deficiencies from unpermited remodel work. 

At the same time this started in 2005 the county had issued 100,000 and performed over 716,000 inspections. By 2008 all the work stopped. That same year it was discovered a 49 story hotel tower had serious structural construction defects. The Harmon tower in the City Center was never finished and later torn down.









The county announced a new program. Yearly inspections of all hotel casinos and bi-yearly of life safety systems. It was called FIP.

The army of inspectors tore thru the strip. With the intent of finding every possible wrong. So later they couldn't be accused of letting violations go. 

Every ceiling, room, hatch, hall, garage, rooftop, etc. I would say an honest 90% from top to bottom eyes on inspection. Starting with the blueprint on file looking for any discrepancies. Certain areas inspected every week. Then a punch list sometimes 100's of violations other times it could be only a few, but hard to fix fix. Even with as much as 50 people working on the corrections the list would get backed up into the 1000s. At the same time more were working on updating the fire alarm system. Every panel schedule had to be updated. Every exit sign and EM light had to be tested & documented. For every 1 written violation we probably fixed about 10 things. Re-inspection was for everything, not just the list. Otherwise if you didn't fix everything you would never get that area signed off.

The one job I was on the property was built in stages with the oldest hotel being 15 and the newest 5 years old. Took well over 3 years to make the corrections. By the time it was done it started over again.

One of the casinos the inspectors were pushing to have it torn down it was so bad.

So yes. Like I wrote, inspections can be harsh. The inspectors didn't have a bad relationship with us. We were happy to be working at the time. Turned out to be good money. The hotel really didn't seem too worried. The hotel had their person walk with the inspector, not us. They were more concerned about guest interruptions. Sometimes paid stupid fines just to avoid work during a busy casino period. They were doing their job calling out violations.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Working over those benches is a pain anyway. Same thing for panels over transformers.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> Working over those benches is a pain anyway. Same thing for panels over transformers.


Transformers just suck, especially when they are hot and or dumping heat on your legs as you stand there.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The worst is when you have to work on a panel behind a washer and dryer and the idiot homeowner just HAD to do laundry at the exact time you scheduled the work.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

And wants to talk and watch you work too.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> The worst is when you have to work on a panel behind a washer and dryer and the idiot homeowner just HAD to do laundry at the exact time you scheduled the work.


That reminds me of a job a long time ago.

Ever work in a house owned by nudists and you didn't know or weren't warned?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

No, but I've had a few naked old ladies come out of the bedroom working in housing...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That reminds me of a job a long time ago.
> 
> Ever work in a house owned by nudists and you didn't know or weren't warned?


I can happily say no since nudists tend to be the people you'd rather not see naked


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I can happily say no since nudists tend to be the people you'd rather not see naked


Was working in a large laundry room in a house where we had only dealt with the housekeeper that didn't speak English so far.

I'm pulling a breaker out of the panel when a guy says something and I turn around to see an old naked guy standing over my helper on the floor passed out.

My helper fainted and wouldn't say why he got so upset when he came around.

The old guy and his wife were nudists, regulars out at Gunnison Beach and had a place in some Florida colony.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

My fur covers everything , so I work nude all the time


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

WronGun said:


> I didn't install the panel myself. One of my guys did.


Maybe you should be looking for different guys? Or training existing guys?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

This is why permits are to be avoided. :thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MTW said:


> This is why permits are to be avoided. :thumbsup:


Permit or not your work should still be able to pass inspection.


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