# Older Flouresent Fixture



## stymie222 (Mar 14, 2018)

This 10 year old residential fixture (2ft- 4 bulb), has ballasts that require pre warm up bulbs. Never ran into that. I was mostly doing industrial work.
It now takes, with regular bulbs, about a 20 seconds to light up then will relight as long as warmed up.
The price of even older normal 2ft bulbs is outrageous. Ballasts too.
Any way to add a starter to the fixture, to get instant on ?

Seems like every alternative, costs more than just buying new.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

It’s easier to change the ballast. 
If it’s yours, go LED.


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## stymie222 (Mar 14, 2018)

*Thanks*

The two ballasts are almost $50 a piece. Regular 2' bulbs are $10 each. I don't care to imagine what a specialty bulb would cost.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Unless the fixture is deeply embedded in something, change the whole fixture. Those "hold the button in until it glows" 2' fluorescents were popular for undercabinet lights in the 60's and 70's. There are darned near (visually) identical replacement fixtures available in modern lamp types.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

stymie222 said:


> The two ballasts are almost $50 a piece. Regular 2' bulbs are $10 each. I don't care to imagine what a specialty bulb would cost.


Remove the old ballast and splice the wires together so that the sockets are hot.

Install LED bulbs.

Profit.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I would change the ballast to instat start ( wire it up in parallel connection ) or change the luminaire.

The led is better than old school flourscent tubes are.

If you going to stay with flourscent just go with T-8 tube instead of T-12 style.


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## stymie222 (Mar 14, 2018)

*Thanks to all for your help*

Just found a four pack of double end LED retro fit bulbs- $36

Cut out the ballasts and wire direct to power and neutral, from each tombstone.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

stymie222 said:


> Just found a four pack of double end LED retro fit bulbs- $36
> 
> Cut out the ballasts and wire direct to power and neutral, from each tombstone.


Hey good idea, wish I had thought of that :whistling2:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I still like this new thingy I found where you do have to wire nut two wires to the existing feed and neutral. Next you take said driver and stick it to the metal of the fixture where it stays due to magnets built into it. And then you clip the led strip in with a built in connector to the driver and attach the led strip with it's built in magnets to the tray shield of the fixture , or on the bare metal above where the old tubes used to sit. No need to rewire any tombstones , and lightning fast. Just two wire nuts to deal with. Bada Bing. And once you close the cover you cannot tell its led, it looks exactly like fluorescent tubes up inside. Magnifique !


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> I still like this new thingy I found where you do have to wire nut two wires to the existing feed and neutral. Next you take said driver and stick it to the metal of the fixture where it stays due to magnets built into it. And then you clip the led strip in with a built in connector to the driver and attach the led strip with it's built in magnets to the tray shield of the fixture , or on the bare metal above where the old tubes used to sit. No need to rewire any tombstones , and lightning fast. Just two wire nuts to deal with. Bada Bing. And once you close the cover you cannot tell its led, it looks exactly like fluorescent tubes up inside. Magnifique !


Rewiring the tombstones only requires 2 wirenuts as well. Or 2 levernuts if you're smart enough to use them.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The reason I tended to change most of the 2' preheat fixtures entirely is because most of them featured a diffuser that wraps from the bottom and up around the front. Due to having to squeeze it slightly to remove it, they were most often broken, missing entirely, or at least quite yellowed.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Rewiring the tombstones only requires 2 wirenuts as well. Or 2 levernuts if you're smart enough to use them.


Two wires (lever nuts) per tombstone. 

This is two wires, and slip the lamps lead into a push in connector. And then no need for signage to alert next user that the lamps are now 120 volts to ground constant, and at full amperage. I'm thinking (hoping) it is much safer in the long run. I have no idea of the cost as the building supplied the entire lot. I just changed out the fixtures for them. 

https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/r1847_3-1109604.pdf


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Two wires (lever nuts) per tombstone.


 No sir, it's 2 wirenuts total. 

Just cut the wires at the ballast and strip them, then splice them together. Takes seconds.

No signage either.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> No sir, it's 2 wirenuts total.
> 
> Just cut the wires at the ballast and strip them, then splice them together. Takes seconds.
> 
> ...




I just proved that signature advertising works!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Are we still buddies?


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## stymie222 (Mar 14, 2018)

*Whats next ?*

All these new electronic innovations reminds me- I'm now on my forth copy of the movie Snow White, now in 4K. How many will I wind up buying ?
Those Edison base florescents didn't last long, did they ? So what's next after LED's ?


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

HackWork said:


> No sir, it's 2 wirenuts total.
> 
> Just cut the wires at the ballast and strip them, then splice them together. Takes seconds.
> 
> ...


The beauty of this is those led bulbs will work both shunted and non shunted tombstones. I know you know this I'm just putting it out there cause the pic doesn't quite show that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

jw0445 said:


> The beauty of this is those led bulbs will work both shunted and non shunted tombstones. I know you know this I'm just putting it out there cause the pic doesn't quite show that.


Actually I forget how it goes. I use the Hyperikon LED lamps and that is where the diagram came from. The whole shunted and non-shunted thing always confused me.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> I still like this new thingy I found where you do have to wire nut two wires to the existing feed and neutral. Next you take said driver and stick it to the metal of the fixture where it stays due to magnets built into it. And then you clip the led strip in with a built in connector to the driver and attach the led strip with it's built in magnets to the tray shield of the fixture , or on the bare metal above where the old tubes used to sit. No need to rewire any tombstones , and lightning fast. Just two wire nuts to deal with. Bada Bing. And once you close the cover you cannot tell its led, it looks exactly like fluorescent tubes up inside. Magnifique !


Manufacturer?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MTW said:


> Manufacturer?


My acquaintance here has a deal going where he puts his company name on them at the manufacturing plant and now he is the manufacturer since he runs the 20 story building that just had every one of them replaced with his new product. I don't know if he is distributing them to more than that one customer , I bet he would like to .


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Actually I forget how it goes. I use the Hyperikon LED lamps and that is where the diagram came from. The whole shunted and non-shunted thing always confused me.


Non shunted have the pins on a tombstone separated so so you can use led bulbs with line and neutral at the same end. The other end of the fixture just supports the bulb. On shunted tombstones both pins are tied together on each end so you can use led bulbs with line on one end and neutral on the other end as your picture shows.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

jw0445 said:


> The beauty of this is those led bulbs will work both shunted and non shunted tombstones. I know you know this I'm just putting it out there cause the pic doesn't quite show that.





HackWork said:


> Actually I forget how it goes. I use the Hyperikon LED lamps and that is where the diagram came from. The whole shunted and non-shunted thing always confused me.





jw0445 said:


> Non shunted have the pins on a tombstone separated so so you can use led bulbs with line and neutral at the same end. The other end of the fixture just supports the bulb. On shunted tombstones both pins are tied together on each end so you can use led bulbs with line on one end and neutral on the other end as your picture shows.


I just want to expand on this a little since I was getting myself confused and looked into it more yesterday.

You can buy single sided LED tubes which get the neutral fed to one pin and the hot fed to the other pin on the same side. This requires unshunted sockets. I have never used these.

I have always used the doublesided LED tubes. These require neutral to one side and hot to the other side. The nice thing about these is that you can feed either pin, so they will work in both shunted and unshunted sockets. But since the pins are shorted together, you have to be sure to not wire both the neutral and hot to the same side, which is easy to avoid.

I installed a bunch of these today in T12 lights. I used the doublesided ones. The way I see it, those are the best to stock because they can work on either type of socket, as you said jw0445. The one thing I got confused on was that although they will work with both socket types, you still have to rewire them to keep the hot and neutral on opposite sides. 

So this post will serve as my guide for the future.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

never been a big fan of ballast bypass tubes. The tombstones are made of cheap baklite and cardboard. By the time I get my hands on them to possibly retrofit, the sockets are either broken or going to be soon. Then have to find the correct tombstone to replace it. There are at least 2 styles and 2 sizes of each for 2 pin lamps. This is 2019, who carries parts to repair fluorescent lights. 
The ballast at least acts as a current limiting device if you short an end to ground. If the fixtures 10 years or less old, I'll put in drop in T8 LED replacements. Old, but oddball fixtures that are hard to replace get new T8 ballasts and the same LED lamps. 
Everything else gets replacement fixtures. If I am working in MA for a commercial customer, the utility practically gives the fixtures away.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

JoeSparky said:


> This is 2019, who carries parts to repair fluorescent lights.


 Any supply house or big box store sells sockets.


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