# Pass through data jacks



## 99cents

I don’t do a lot of data and it’s a PITA. It doesn’t help that my fingers don’t work and I’m half blind.

I bought some pass-through RJ45 jacks. What it means is that you can strip the cable long, push the wires through the jack and then cut them to the proper length. Makes the job an easier PITA.

Anyway, probably no big deal but I thought I would share because that’s the kind of guy that I am  .


----------



## HackWork

You are talking about the male plug end, correct?

I remember seeing that style many years ago, I believe it was EZ or something.

I still think you’re better off always terminating into a female RJ45 jack, then use a premade patch cable.


----------



## MikeFL

Those things rock. Over the holidays I reterminated every cable in our place. Part I like the most is the jacket comes out perfect every time instead of guessing how much to strip.

I don't have the newer crimp tool which will shave those wires off flush so I push through about 1/8" too far, cut them all even, then pull it back the 1/8" to get them perfectly at the face of the plug.

Works nice!


----------



## 99cents

MikeFL said:


> Those things rock. Over the holidays I reterminated every cable in our place. Part I like the most is the jacket comes out perfect every time instead of guessing how much to strip.
> 
> I don't have the newer crimp tool which will shave those wires off flush so I push through about 1/8" too far, cut them all even, then pull it back the 1/8" to get them perfectly at the face of the plug.
> 
> Works nice!


That’s what I did, cut them even and then pulled them back. My cheap Commercial Electric crimper doesn’t cut the wire but it was 27 loonies.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> You are talking about the male plug end, correct?
> 
> I remember seeing that style many years ago, I believe it was EZ or something.
> 
> I still think you’re better off always terminating into a female RJ45 jack, then use a premade patch cable.


That’s cheesy. Yes I am talking about the male jacks.


----------



## splatz

99cents said:


> I bought some pass-through RJ45 jacks. What it means is that you can strip the cable long, push the wires through the jack and then cut them to the proper length. Makes the job an easier PITA.





HackWork said:


> You are talking about the male plug end, correct?
> 
> I remember seeing that style many years ago, I believe it was EZ or something.
> 
> I still think you’re better off always terminating into a female RJ45 jack, then use a premade patch cable.


I agree with both ... if you have to crimp plugs, use the EZRJ45 style, but don't crimp plugs unless you really have to. 

jacks > plugs


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> That’s cheesy. Yes I am talking about the male jacks.


I'm not sure what you mean.


----------



## splatz

99cents said:


> That’s cheesy. Yes I am talking about the male jacks.


This will be upsetting for Canadians, but jacks are female, plugs are male.


----------



## emtnut

splatz said:


> This will be upsetting for Canadians, but jacks are female, plugs are male.


Nahhh ... We call those things on the wall 'Plugs' :biggrin:


----------



## HackWork

Small patch panels like this can be purchased for around $15:









If that is too many ports or too large, then a typical single gang keystone plate with 1-6 jacks works well. This can be mounted in the wall with the wiring inside of the wall, or installed in one of Levitons surface mounted plastic low voltage boxes with the wiring strapped to the wall or inside of a raceway.

This is the demarcation between the building wiring and the user wiring. Then a patch cable is used to run from that female jack to the devices/switches/etc. Patch cables are extremely inexpensive, so making them yourself doesn't pay- especially if you have to use more expensive tools and material because the normal ones are hard for you to make.

I don't think that is cheesy, that is a typical installation that a low voltage pro would do.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.


I’m talking about these.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> Small patch panels like this can be purchased for around $15:
> 
> View attachment 139926
> 
> 
> If that is too many ports or too large, then a typical single gang keystone plate with 1-6 jacks works well. This can be mounted in the wall with the wiring inside of the wall, or installed in one of Levitons surface mounted plastic low voltage boxes with the wiring strapped to the wall or inside of a raceway.
> 
> This is the demarcation between the building wiring and the user wiring. Then a patch cable is used to run from that female jack to the devices/switches/etc. Patch cables are extremely inexpensive, so making them yourself doesn't pay- especially if you have to use more expensive tools and material because the normal ones are hard for you to make.
> 
> I don't think that is cheesy, that is a typical installation that a low voltage pro would do.


You’re confused. That’s an inny, I’m talking about an outty.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> You’re confused. That’s an inny, I’m talking about an outty.


I'm not confused, you are.

The point is that you should not be making outties. There is very, very little reason for you to do so.


----------



## B-Nabs

HackWork said:


> I'm not confused, you are.
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that you should not be making outties. There is very, very little reason for you to do so.


I make outies for lighting control, but for data distribution I agree, patch panels & premade patch cords are better. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeFL

If I'm connecting 2 things on the same table, desk, rack or shelf, I'll use a patch cable. If I'm making a long distance connection, I break out the spool of Cat 5 and run my cable and terminate the ends. There's no way I'd buy a 100' patch cable to do a 60' run.


----------



## HackWork

MikeFL said:


> If I'm connecting 2 things on the same table, desk, rack or shelf, I'll use a patch cable.


 ...that you purchased. 



> If I'm making a long distance connection, I break out the spool of Cat 5 and run my cable and terminate the ends.


 ...into female jacks, then use patch cables that you purchased to connect those installed jacks to the devices you require on each end. 



> There's no way I'd buy a 100' patch cable to do a 60' run.


 Nor should you.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> You are talking about the male plug end, correct?
> 
> I remember seeing that style many years ago, I believe it was EZ or something.
> 
> I still think you’re better off always terminating into a female RJ45 jack, then use a premade patch cable.


Why would you create an extra connection? Just use the proper item to begin with.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> Why would you create an extra connection? Just use the proper item to begin with.


I’ve explain to you a few times what the “proper item” is, how the professionals do it.

If you want to do it like a handyman, you are free to.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> I’ve explain to you a few times what the “proper item” is, how the professionals do it.
> 
> If you want to do it like a handyman, you are free to.


Tell me why a professional would use the wrong connector and then put a dongle on it to make it right. Makes no sense.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> Tell me why a professional would use the wrong connector and then put a dongle on it to make it right. Makes no sense.


You can say that it makes no sense, but that’s not gonna change the fact that it’s the way that every professional out there does it. It’s the only way it’s done.

You never see tele-data cables coming through a hole in the wall and then terminating directly into any type of device. Not on either end. 

If you see it done somewhere, then you know that it was done by somebody who didn’t know what they were doing.


----------



## joe-nwt

99cents said:


> Why would you create an extra connection? Just use the proper item to begin with.


If you are going to plug and unplug the connection from time to time, patch cables are made from stranded wire and will least longer than solid wire.


----------



## Forge Boyz

99cents said:


> Tell me why a professional would use the wrong connector and then put a dongle on it to make it right. Makes no sense.


Actually most pros I know try avoid putting male ends of cat cable. It's just faster, easier and less prone to error to use jacks and patch cablea.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## 99cents

Forge Boyz said:


> Actually most pros I know try avoid putting male ends of cat cable. It's just faster, easier and less prone to error to use jacks and patch cablea.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


So why do they make them?


----------



## MikeFL

Hack why would you terminate into a female and use a patch cable? If I'm going from a switch to a ethernet port all I need is a male on each end.


----------



## Forge Boyz

99cents said:


> So why do they make them?


Sometimes you don't have an option because of space or you need an odd length patch cord. I'm sure some guys just like making their own. There is nothing wrong with using them if that's what you want, but I do think that using jacks and patching together is a cleaner look, at least at the main equipment, and is much more versatile for future changes, which will happen.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork

MikeFL said:


> Hack why would you terminate into a female and use a patch cable? If I'm going from a switch to a ethernet port all I need is a male on each end.


In what situation are you talking about? Are you still talking about using the 60’ patch cable from earlier? 

If so, then that cable should terminate into a patch panel (or one of the smaller solutions I posted earlier) next to the switch and connect to it with a short patch cable. The other end should also terminate into a permanently mounted solution with a female RJ-45 jack. Then a patch cable should be used to connect that to the computer or whatever other ethernet port you were talking about.

I mean, if you’re doing this “just to get it done” in a factory setting, you could do it anyway that you want. The same way way you could run an extension cord to get power somewhere instead of installing the electric properly. Your choice.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> So why do they make them?


For the same reason that they make extension cords.

We are not supposed to be running either through buildings and pop them out holes in the wall or ceiling.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> For the same reason that they make extension cords.
> 
> We are not supposed to be running either through buildings and pop them out holes in the wall or ceiling.


I’m talking about the male ends. The cable guy puts one on when he installs his box so why wouldn’t I do the same? This job was for menu boards, cash, etc. in a restaurant. I see no advantage to putting in the wrong connector and a dongle.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> I’m talking about the male ends. The cable guy puts one on when he installs his box so why wouldn’t I do the same? This job was for menu boards, cash, etc. in a restaurant. I see no advantage to putting in the wrong connector and a dongle.


 How many more times does it need to be explained to you? 

I’m curious, how are all of those items powered? Did you run an extension cord from an outlet near the electrical panel, through the walls, and exit the same hole that your Cat5 cable came through at the menu board and cash registers? :vs_laugh:

The cable guy did it, why shouldn’t you?!?!?

An electrical outlet box is nothing more than a wrong connector and dongle, right? :biggrin:


----------



## Missouri Bound

99cents said:


> So why do they make them?


For DIY'ers


----------



## HackWork

HTML:







Missouri Bound said:


> For DIY'ers


And people who don’t realize you can order a 60’ Cat6 from Amazon and have it delivered tomorrow for $10 :biggrin:


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> How many more times does it need to be explain to you?
> 
> I’m curious, how are all of those items powered? Did you run an extension cord from an outlet near the electrical panel, through the walls, and exit the same hole that your Cat5 cable came through at the menu board and cash registers? :vs_laugh:
> 
> The cable guy did it, why shouldn’t you?!?!?
> 
> And electrical outlet box is nothing more than a wrong connector and dongle, right? :biggrin:


You make no sense. Why are you blathering about extension cords? I ran Cat 5e from point A to point B and terminated them appropriately. Of all your troll posts, this is one of your weakest. I came here to post about a product I like and you turned it into another one of your lame arguments. Why are you weird?


----------



## splatz

The field crimped modular plug (male) is the backstab termination of the data world.


----------



## TheLivingBubba

splatz said:


> The field crimped modular plug (male) is the backstab termination of the data world.



I use a modular plug in low volt lighting or if something is going to be in the same spot for the next 30 years. The first time a modular plug gets damaged it gets replaced with a jack and patch cable.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> You make no sense.


 I’m telling you how the world works and you’re telling me that I make no sense. Your trolling is weak. 


> Why are you blathering about extension cords?


 Because you keep asking the same question over and over and I have to use an example to try to illustrate how silly your method is. 



> I ran Cat 5e from point A to point B and terminated them appropriately. Of all your troll posts, this is one of your weakest. I came here to post about a product I like and you turned it into another one of your lame arguments. Why are you weird?


I’m not trolling, you are. Don’t act like you haven’t realized that you are the only electrician here who thinks what you did is appropriate. 

I’m not arguing, I’m trying to educate you. It’s time you just shut up and listen for once.


----------



## macmikeman

Baby Wires! We're talking baby wires here...... I WANNA wire internet lines using #12 stranded. Yea Baby. In the promise of another world, a dreadful silence comes.


----------



## MikeFL

Hack is talking about finish work in an office environment or similar, and I agree. Terminate at a jack in a box.


----------



## B-Nabs

99cents said:


> I’m talking about the male ends. The cable guy puts one on when he installs his box so why wouldn’t I do the same? This job was for menu boards, cash, etc. in a restaurant. I see no advantage to putting in the wrong connector and a dongle.


Menu boards are nothing more than TVs. I would rough in two boxes (or a 2 gang box with a divider), and install a receptacle in one and an RJ45 jack in the other. Then the power cable for the TV plugs in to the receptacle, and a patch cable plugs into the jacks on the wall and the back of the TV. I don't mean to pile on 99, but Hack is right. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


----------



## 99cents

B-Nabs said:


> Menu boards are nothing more than TVs. I would rough in two boxes (or a 2 gang box with a divider), and install a receptacle in one and an RJ45 jack in the other. Then the power cable for the TV plugs in to the receptacle, and a patch cable plugs into the jacks on the wall and the back of the TV. I don't mean to pile on 99, but Hack is right.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


Actually, these go to a box and the TVs are fed with HDMI.

If somebody gave me one good reason why a patch cord is better, I would do it. So far, I’m hearing hack, handyman and nonprofessional, which means nothing to me. One guy said a patch cord is better if it’s constantly being plugged in and unplugged because it’s more flexible. I get that. If this, however, is something that gets plugged in and stays plugged in, what’s wrong with a crimp jack? They sell them in bulk packs so I doubt if the market is restricted to DIYers who need one.


----------



## Forge Boyz

Running a Cat5e out of the wall straight into a device is kind of like running a romex out of the wall to a handybox right beside what is plugged into it. It's not a violation, it's just not done, and it doesn't look as nice as a jack and patch cord. To me, when they remove whatever the cat5e is plugged into, I don't want a wire hanging out of the wall.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## 99cents

Forge Boyz said:


> Running a Cat5e out of the wall straight into a device is kind of like running a romex out of the wall to a handybox right beside what is plugged into it. It's not a violation, it's just not done, and it doesn't look as nice as a jack and patch cord. To me, when they remove whatever the cat5e is plugged into, I don't want a wire hanging out of the wall.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


I have a panel mounted on plywood with cable and pipe running into it and right beside it mounted on the same piece of plywood is a data box. For some reason I’m supposed to make the Cat 5 pretty because, if I don’t, I’m a handyman?


----------



## Forge Boyz

99cents said:


> I have a panel mounted on plywood with cable and pipe running into it and right beside it mounted on the same piece of plywood is a data box. For some reason I’m supposed to make the Cat 5 pretty because, if I don’t, I’m a handyman?


Hey I'm just trying to give you the reason you asked for. In the situation you described, it depends on how many cables you have. One or two? No big deal. Crimp the ends on. If you have a half dozen or more, it's a whole lot cleaner to get a little patch panel. It will make the future modifications that will come a lot easier.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## 99cents

Forge Boyz said:


> Hey I'm just trying to give you the reason you asked for. In the situation you described, it depends on how many cables you have. One or two? No big deal. Crimp the ends on. If you have a half dozen or more, it's a whole lot cleaner to get a little patch panel. It will make the future modifications that will come a lot easier.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


Thank you. This makes sense.


----------



## AVService

MikeFL said:


> Hack why would you terminate into a female and use a patch cable? If I'm going from a switch to a ethernet port all I need is a male on each end.




This is why they are called patch cables in the first place.

The idea is to terminate in a female jack and then patch from device to device.

On the wall end to an endpoint device and at the head end to a switch usually,how often is a head end just terminated into the device?

Never if done correctly!

Of course there are reasons and times where it is just practical to do it the other way too but most problems in Cat wiring seem to trace back to bad crimping according to every manufacturer I have ever talked to.

I do agree though that if I need to terminate in a make plug the EZ system is the way to go right now as long as I use Ideal connectors and tool,they have been terrific for me.

I have had issues though with other cheaper versions or not using the Ideal tool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> If somebody gave me one good reason why a patch cord is better, I would do it. So far, I’m hearing hack, handyman and nonprofessional, which means nothing to me.


I love the way the guy who constantly complained that I use a box offset hidden in a homeowner's basement where no one will ever see it is hack, yet he does open commercial work doing the exact opposite of the tele-data industry standards and cries when called out on it being hack work. :vs_laugh:


----------



## CoolWill

99cents said:


> I came here to post about a product I like and you turned it into another one of your lame arguments. Why are you weird?


He's an ethnic Eye-talian. They live for this sort of thing. We're just thankful he's not half Indian too.


----------



## HackWork

For those people who want to use this type of male EZ connector, remember that you have to get a connector rated for the solid CAT5* conductors that we use for building wiring. I believe the Leviton ones are, but not all of the others ones are. 

If you insist on making up patch cables yourself, get stranded wire.


----------



## HackWork

CoolWill said:


> He's an ethnic Eye-talian. They live for this sort of thing. We're just thankful he's not half Indian too.


Well, not in this situation. Go back to the first page and see I was just making reasonable posts trying to explain how it's universally done, until 99cents did his typical trolling and turned it into a pissing contest.

BTW, I have reported your racism. Expect a stern phonecall from God.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> You are talking about the male plug end, correct?
> 
> I remember seeing that style many years ago, I believe it was EZ or something.
> *
> I still think you’re better off always terminating into a female RJ45 jack, then use a premade patch cable*.



It really depends on what you are doing. I do camera work in which case it’s just more points of failure to put a jack, another time I did a machine shop with overhead drops and it was just best to crimp ends to plug into the machines. But yea, for office TI type stuff plate and jack is the go-to method.

But for wattbuster title 24 stuff, you really need to crimp or you get a jumbled mess. 


As to the pass through, they are great because you can see your ordered pairs more clearly before you crimp. 

You should use a special crimper that trims the excess cable but you can use the old style crimper and a utility knife in a pinch.


----------



## AVService

Im pretty sure that the longer answer here is about wire manufacturing tolerances and that it is a lot harder to get a decent hand made connection to the tiny male plug with varying wire and plug sizing vs punching down into the female jack where it is easy to get a rugged tight connection.

Add to that the likely hood that the jack will be strain relieved being mounted to a fixed location while the plug will use solid single conductor with ineffective strain relief and it seems obvious which end us more vulnerable to marginal connection causing problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeFL

HackWork said:


> Well, not in this situation. Go back to the first page and see I was just making reasonable posts trying to explain how it's universally done, until 99cents did his typical trolling and turned it into a pissing contest.
> 
> BTW, I have reported your racism. Expect a stern phonecall from God.


I'll speak up for not understanding the point you were making earlier on Hack.

If I need to connect a machine to download a file, absent a cable already made up for it, I'm grabbing a spool of Cat 5 and making up that connection which I need for 10 minutes off-hours. There will be no jack and patch cable. If I'm working in McDonald's and need a ethernet connection at every cash register, I'd most certainly terminate cable at jack & use the patch cable method you describe.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> For those people who want to use this type of male EZ connector, remember that you have to get a connector rated for the solid CAT5* conductors that we use for building wiring. I believe the Leviton ones are, but not all of the others ones are.
> 
> If you insist on making up patch cables yourself, get stranded wire.



Unless the customer is paying you to make up custom length patch cables, not buying prefab jumpers is just silly. 

There are several solid rated crimps. Some duel rated as well and you really do want the correct crimps or your fail rate will run 5-50%. 


I used the ideal crimper for decades, now I’m using the platinum tools crimper and crimps. They work great.


----------



## B-Nabs

99cents said:


> Actually, these go to a box and the TVs are fed with HDMI.
> 
> If somebody gave me one good reason why a patch cord is better, I would do it. So far, I’m hearing hack, handyman and nonprofessional, which means nothing to me. One guy said a patch cord is better if it’s constantly being plugged in and unplugged because it’s more flexible. I get that. If this, however, is something that gets plugged in and stays plugged in, what’s wrong with a crimp jack? They sell them in bulk packs so I doubt if the market is restricted to DIYers who need one.





99cents said:


> I have a panel mounted on plywood with cable and pipe running into it and right beside it mounted on the same piece of plywood is a data box. For some reason I’m supposed to make the Cat 5 pretty because, if I don’t, I’m a handyman?


Fair enough, in that circumstance I might do the same. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


----------



## HackWork

MikeFL said:


> If I need to connect a machine to download a file, absent a cable already made up for it, I'm grabbing a spool of Cat 5 and making up that connection which I need for 10 minutes off-hours.


 Then this is the equivalent of using an extension cord to temporarily power something for 10 minutes. It's fine. I don't think your situation is comparable to the current discussion of installing building wiring.

You can have a 60' Cat5e cable delivered from Amazon tomorrow for $10 and keep it for the next update that you have to do. You said that you don't want a 100' cable when you only need 60', but you can buy a 75' or a 60' cable. And if it's only to update a machine for 10 minutes, then who cares if it's too long? Just buy the 100' cable for $13 so that you can use it for a further machine in the future.

This is why many people say not to even bother making up patch cables.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> I love the way the guy who constantly complained that I use a box offset hidden in a homeowner's basement where no one will ever see it is hack, yet he does open commercial work doing the exact opposite of the tele-data industry standards and cries when called out on it being hack work. :vs_laugh:


Let me explain this to you because you’re not very smart. There’s a pipe entering a building in the area of the electrical panel. Emerging from that pipe is a Cat 5e cable. This is the data supply. There is a piece of plywood mounted on the wall dedicated to data.

You got me so far? I’m trying to make this simple so you don’t get befuddled. Sorry for the multi syllabic words. I know they confuse you.

The cable guy attaches a crimp plug to that cable and plugs it into his box. This is common practice. There are hundreds of data vans running around town. They all have tubs of crimp plugs in them and they are installed all the time. I would assume this is industry standard since they are the guys who do it as a livelihood.

Are you still with me or are you lost?

I bring my cable to the area of the data box and terminate it in the same manner. 

There you go. I hope I didn’t use too many big words for you. Sometimes it’s difficult to communicate with people like you who have a very limited ability to think.

This started out as a simple thread about a product I used and like until you came along with your usual crap. Have a nice day, Hack. Actually, no, I take that back. Have a lousy day.


----------



## five.five-six

99cents said:


> Tell me why a professional would use the wrong connector and then put a dongle on it to make it right. Makes no sense.


Desks move, things change, cables break. Many times runs are for future. 


The wall plate will be stenciled with the patch panel number and jack number in the server room so the customer’s IT department can patch that run to the network equipment in the server room and then patch the plate to the computer or other equipment in use.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> I have a panel mounted on plywood with cable and pipe running into it and right beside it mounted on the same piece of plywood is a data box. For some reason I’m supposed to make the Cat 5 pretty because, if I don’t, I’m a handyman?





B-Nabs said:


> Fair enough, in that circumstance I might do the same.


Data enclosures always have patch panel accessories that attach inside of them, often starting with as little as 6 ports, which would be perfect for 99cent's situation. The solid building wiring would be terminated to the patch panel and not touched anymore, it will be tightly secured to the back/side of the panel. Short patch cables would connect from the patch panel to the switch/etc. That's the way it's done, as you know.

If he brings the solid building wiring into the low voltage panel and attaches a male plug end onto it in order to use it as a patch cable itself, then every time the cable guy or anyone else goes in and moves the switch around it will stress this connection and could lead to failure.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> Let me explain this to you because you’re not very smart.


 See? You're still trolling. This bad attitude of your's is why this thread went south.



> There’s a pipe entering a building in the area of the electrical panel. Emerging from that pipe is a Cat 5e cable. This is the data supply. There is a piece of plywood mounted on the wall dedicated to data.
> 
> The cable guy attaches a crimp plug to that cable and plugs it into his box. This is common practice.


 He shouldn't. He does that because it's the absolute cheapest thing that they can do. You should not be taking your cues in how you perform your installation from "the cable guy".

On the very first page I posted an image of the type of small and inexpensive patch panel this type of wiring should be terminated into.


> There are hundreds of data vans running around town. They all have tubs of crimp plugs in them and they are installed all the time. I would assume this is industry standard since they are the guys who do it as a livelihood.


 S top assuming. How many more people do you need to tell you that you are wrong?


> I bring my cable to the area of the data box and terminate it in the same manner.


 You shouldn't, as we have all explained to you.



> This started out as a simple thread about a product I used and like until you came along with your usual crap. Have a nice day, Hack. Actually, no, I take that back. Have a lousy day.


 I have deleted most of your insults from this post.

I agree that this started as a perfectly fine thread, it only went downhill when you started with your typical bologna. If you could actually act like an adult, this would not have happened. But you are still acting like a 9 year old. An ignorant one.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> Data enclosures always have patch panel accessories that attach inside of them, often starting with as little as 6 ports, which would be perfect for 99cent's situation. The solid building wiring would be terminated to the patch panel and not touched anymore, it will be tightly secured to the back/side of the panel. Short patch cables would connect from the patch panel to the switch/etc. That's the way it's done, as you know.
> 
> If he brings the solid building wiring into the low voltage panel and attaches a male plug end onto it in order to use it as a patch cable itself, then every time the cable guy or anyone else goes in and moves the switch around it will stress this connection and could lead to failure.
> 
> View attachment 139946


Why would I do that in a burrito joint? I’m not wiring the stock exchange. Get real.


----------



## five.five-six

99cents said:


> The cable guy attaches a crimp plug to that cable and plugs it into his box. This is common practice. There are hundreds of data vans running around town. They all have tubs of crimp plugs in them and they are installed all the time. I would assume this is industry standard since they are the guys who do it as a livelihood.



Um, OK... you assume wrong, that’s a crap install. That’s the kind of work you get when the gardener says “I do electrical and networking too!”


All the drops (branch circuits) should be terminated on a patch panel and secured in the equipment room. The other end will be stenciled with the jack location.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> Why would I do that in a burrito joint? I’m not wiring the stock exchange. Get real.


See? Still trolling...

And as usual, you are all alone.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> See? Still trolling...
> 
> And as usual, you are all alone.


Except for the guys who said they would do it the same way I did. This pit bull act of yours is tiresome.


----------



## five.five-six

:vs_laugh:


99cents said:


> Why would I do that in a burrito joint? I’m not wiring the stock exchange. Get real.



If you are adding 1-2 drops to a mess like that, perhaps but I would always pitch them on terminating their existing cables properly. I think it’s of value when you consider the cost of a 3 -5 hr POS outage could be solved in 15 min if the structured cabling isn’t a hot wet mess. 

Just be mindful that some people terminate 568A. Also, if they it’s all done in amazon purchased prefab 100’ cables, they are non standard non CL2 stranded and you can’t terminate them on a 110 block


----------



## AVService

five.five-six said:


> Um, OK... you assume wrong, that’s a crap install. That’s the kind of work you get when the gardener says “I do electrical and networking too!”
> 
> 
> All the drops (branch circuits) should be terminated on a patch panel and secured in the equipment room. The other end will be stenciled with the jack location.


And to make this more clear,I can buy a single jack keystone surface mount box for about a dollar and use that to do it the right way in the Burrito Joint and never need to worry about it again.

It is the right way but clearly things are often not done this way on order to save say 99 cents on a job maybe?

Sorry that one was just sitting there and I could not leave it,i am weak.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> Except for the guys who said they would do it the same way I did.


 The guys? Only B-Nabs said that he might, but I take him as the guy who would do it right and I think he would most likely use the patch panel if it was his job. 



> This pit bull act of yours is tiresome.


You keep trying to put it back on me. It is YOU with this pit bull mentality (while only being the size of a Yorkie).

Look at your post to me:



> Let me explain this to you because you’re not very smart.
> ~
> You got me so far? I’m trying to make this simple so you don’t get befuddled. Sorry for the multi syllabic words. I know they confuse you.
> ~
> Are you still with me or are you lost?
> ~
> There you go. I hope I didn’t use too many big words for you. Sometimes it’s difficult to communicate with people like you who have a very limited ability to think.
> ~
> you came along with your usual crap. Have a nice day, Hack. Actually, no, I take that back. Have a lousy day.


Look at all the time you spent insulting me above. Every word of it is an attack on me. This is the epitome of a "pit bull act"

But it hasn't gotten you anywhere. You are like a child banging rocks on the ground in anger.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> View attachment 139946



I hate those enclosures, I’m sure they have their place but I never use them.

I’ll use the 12 port vertical patches on really small installs or vertical tie panels in high rise But mostly I’ll use a wall mounted 19” or floor mounted 4 post rack. 


Did you notice that all the jumpers in that photo are custom made LOL. It does look nice done that way but in my experience, things get moved around so much that custom jumpers only look nice for a year our two.


----------



## HackWork

five.five-six said:


> I hate those enclosures, I’m sure they have their place but I never use them.


That was the first thing that came up in Google image search. It is in a small house and was done by a homeowner.

But a so-called "professional" thinks it only belongs in the stock exchange, it's too fancy for a commercial restaurant. 



> Did you notice that all the jumpers in that photo are custom made LOL. It does look nice done that way but in my experience, things get moved around so much that custom jumpers only look nice for a year our two.


 I did notice that and I wondered if someone else would notice :biggrin:

THAT just goes to show how making your own custom patch cables IS a homeowner thing to do. :biggrin:


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> I did notice that and I wondered if someone else would notice :biggrin:
> 
> THAT just goes to show how making your own custom patch cables IS a homeowner thing to do. :biggrin:



I have a customer who pays me to cut the power cords on his switches to custom length to the PDUs. To be fair, there’s 6-8 per rack and they all have redundant power supplies with #14awg cords so I cut 3 feet off each that’s about 40’ -50’ of cable he doesn’t have to stuff someplace.


----------



## CoolWill

HackWork said:


> But a so-called "professional" thinks it only belongs in the stock exchange, it's too fancy for a commercial restaurant.


99cents is the best out there:vs_mad: Watch your tongue. He'd lick your ass any day, that's for sure!


----------



## HackWork

CoolWill said:


> 99cents is the best out there:vs_mad: Watch your tongue. He'd lick your ass any day, that's for sure!


Joke’s on him, he would get gonorrhea.


----------



## splatz

HackWork said:


> For those people who want to use this type of male EZ connector, remember that you have to get a connector rated for the solid CAT5* conductors that we use for building wiring. I believe the Leviton ones are, but not all of the others ones are.
> 
> If you insist on making up patch cables yourself, get stranded wire.


My comparison of the RJ45 plug to the backstab termination is not a joke, and this is the reason. The plugs that they say are OK for solid core cable? Don't believe it, they still suck, and are unreliable, you can trust me on this. Just like backstabs are UL approved and sold by the truckload, but they still suck, not a little, a lot. 

Modular plugs were designed for stranded conductors and work well with them. They work for **** with solid core cable, which is what you will use. (You can find building rated stranded conductor category 5e / 6 but it's not readily available and ridiculously expensive.) 

If you repair or trim and reterminate a patch cord (made of stranded cable) with a modular plug, and your workmanship is decent, it will be functionally fine, but not likely something rated for installation.


----------



## HackWork

I believe you, I always wondered how that pin made good contact with that tiny solid wire. It's like touching 2 tiny little needles together and hoping they stay in good contact. With stranded conductor, it's soft and can splay and comform around the contact.


----------



## five.five-six

splatz said:


> My comparison of the RJ45 plug to the backstab termination is not a joke, and this is the reason. The plugs that they say are OK for solid core cable? Don't believe it, they still suck, and are unreliable, you can trust me on this. Just like backstabs are UL approved and sold by the truckload, but they still suck, not a little, a lot.
> 
> Modular plugs were designed for stranded conductors and work well with them. They work for **** with solid core cable, which is what you will use. (You can find building rated stranded conductor category 5e / 6 but it's not readily available and ridiculously expensive.)
> 
> If you repair or trim and reterminate a patch cord (made of stranded cable) with a modular plug, and your workmanship is decent, it will be functionally fine, but not likely something rated for installation.



I’d like to say I believe you but I have literally thousands of connectors in service for in the range of decades that say differently. Perhaps it’s your crimper or the brand of connectors but about 99.99 per cents of PoE cameras are connected with solid 24 awg 4 pair unshielded twisted pair.


----------



## splatz

HackWork said:


> I believe you, I always wondered how that pin made good contact with that tiny solid wire. It's like touching 2 tiny little needles together and hoping they stay in good contact. With stranded conductor, it's soft and can splay and comform around the contact.


With the stranded wire the original style straight blade actually pierces right through the middle of the stranded conductor, it makes a very reliable connection. The flat satin was really easy to work with and made an excellent connection, it's just no good for twisted pair wiring. 

The telcos used to use IDC type modular plugs on solid core wire that assembled with a single screw, they worked very well but would not be category rated. I don't even know if those are still available. There are IDC type modular plugs available today but I haven't seen one that's really decent quality.


----------



## splatz

five.five-six said:


> I’d like to say I believe you but I have literally thousands of connectors in service for in the range of decades that say differently. Perhaps it’s your crimper or the brand of connectors but about 99.99 per cents of PoE cameras are connected with solid 24 awg 4 pair unshielded twisted pair.


People say the exact same things about backstabs... there are whole developments by me, every single receptacle backstabbed. To each their own.


----------



## MikeFL

Wow lotsa love in this thread! You guys married? 

Those "patch" cables in Hack's picture are custom made on-site.


----------



## HackWork

MikeFL said:


> Wow lotsa love in this thread! You guys married?
> 
> Those "patch" cables in Hack's picture are custom made on-site.


Yes, we spoke about that above.

That is a panel in a small home that the homeowner installed. And the homeowner made the patch cables, since it is a homeowner thing to do.


----------



## splatz

A lot of IT guys are seeing stuff on cable **** on reddit and dabbling in over the top artistic cable management. Trimming your patch cords to the exact length is for tinkerers and people with too much time on their hands. In real world data centers that aren't for instagram, you manage your slack inside cable management hardware if you don't want to look at it, but you buy patch cords in standard lengths and you're way too busy to be dicking around with custom reterminations. 

Now the power cords that @five.five-six mentioned - I have often reterminated those for the sake of neatness but there are far fewer of them, and it's harder to order lengths that are close to what you need. 

Trimming and reterminating power cords is not as ridiculous because


----------



## MikeFL

It's always more fun when it works better and that's what we get from the RJ45EZ which is what this thread is (was) about. That plug makes a better job with 100% reliability. Prior to EZ not 100% and not as fun.


----------



## HackWork

MikeFL said:


> It's always more fun when it works better and that's what we get from the RJ45EZ which is what this thread is (was) about. That plug makes a better job with 100% reliability. Prior to EZ not 100% and not as fun.


The point is that in most situations in which people would be crimping RJ45 plugs on, they shouldn't be. 

BTW, RJ45EZ's do not have 100% reliability.


----------



## five.five-six

splatz said:


> People say the exact same things about backstabs... there are whole developments by me, every single receptacle backstabbed. To each their own.




I don’t know of any PoE cameras that are back stabbed


Funny thing is there are people who berate backstabbed and use wagos every day ... I don’t use either.


----------



## five.five-six

HTML:







HackWork said:


> The point is that in most situations in which people would be crimping RJ45 plugs on, they shouldn't be.
> 
> BTW, RJ45EZ's do not have 100% reliability.



Nothing is 100%. I had a single jack fail on a Leviton 96 port CAT6 patch panel NIB and those things are spendy, not to mention a lot of work terminating them. Good thing there are replaceable 6 jack modules and I didn’t have to retire the entire thing for 1 jack

I think this photo is from that actual installation


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> The point is that in most situations in which people would be crimping RJ45 plugs on, they shouldn't be.
> 
> BTW, RJ45EZ's do not have 100% reliability.


Punch downs don’t have 100% reliability either. You’re trying (and failing) to be a purist here but what it really is is pure bull chit.


----------



## five.five-six

99cents said:


> Punch downs don’t have 100% reliability either. You’re trying (and failing) to be a purist here but what it really is is pure bull chit.


Never surrender!


----------



## HackWork

five.five-six said:


> Funny thing is there are people who berate backstabbed and use wagos every day ... I don’t use either.


My understanding is that the normal Wago style connectors (push in) use a different cage clamp design than what a backstab uses. 

Then, going one step further, the lever nuts use a much strong spring since the lever opens it instead of the conductor pushing against it. 

So in the end, they are significantly better.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> Punch downs don’t have 100% reliability either.


 I never said that they were 100% reliable. I never said that anything was 100% reliable, I was merely responding to someone else who said it, and as you know, was incorrect.



> You’re trying (and failing) to be a purist here but what it really is is pure bull chit.


I am not trying to do anything other than educate you. If you would have just shut up and listened instead of this stupid troll routine that you constantly do, we wouldn't have this sh1tshow that you caused.

I would suggest you stop with your childish nonsense and go back to read the thread from the beginning. You will see where I took the time to explain things to you and post examples of pictures of solutions that would work for you, while you just called it cheesy and told me that I was confused, when it was clearly you who did not understand. And even now that it has been explained to you many times from many people, you are still butt-hurt over it.

Just stop already. If you're not spreading your misery over Trump, you find anything else to do it with.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> My understanding is that the normal Wago style connectors (push in) use a different cage clamp design than what a backstab uses.
> 
> Then, going one step further, the lever nuts use a much strong spring since the lever opens it instead of the conductor pushing against it.
> 
> So in the end, they are significantly better.


Wire Hook and screw terminal, doesn’t take much longer at all.


----------



## B-Nabs

five.five-six said:


> HTML:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing is 100%. I had a single jack fail on a Leviton 96 port CAT6 patch panel NIB and those things are spendy, not to mention a lot of work terminating them. Good thing there are replaceable 6 jack modules and I didn’t have to retire the entire thing for 1 jack
> 
> I think this photo is from that actual installation


How do you feel about loaded VS unloaded patch panels? I like loaded for speed and ease, but unloaded benefits from the ability to change out a single jack if needed. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> I never said that they were 100% reliable. I never said that anything was 100% reliable, I was merely responding to someone else who said it, and as you know, was incorrect.
> 
> I am not trying to do anything other than educate you. If you would have just shut up and listened instead of this stupid troll routine that you constantly do, we wouldn't have this sh1tshow that you caused.
> 
> I would suggest you stop with your childish nonsense and go back to read the thread from the beginning. You will see where I took the time to explain things to you and post examples of pictures of solutions that would work for you, while you just called it cheesy and told me that I was confused, when it was clearly you who did not understand. And even now that it has been explained to you many times from many people, you are still butt-hurt over it.
> 
> Just stop already. If you're not spreading your misery over Trump, you find anything else to do it with.


If you want to educate me, you can teach me how to hang ceiling fans for grandma. Not much room on these forums for a guy like you with awkward social skills and nearly negative intelligence but maybe that’s something you could do.


----------



## HackWork

five.five-six said:


> Wire Hook and screw terminal, doesn’t take much longer at all.


I was speaking about the wagos, mainly the lever nuts. They are awesome and I haven't heard a bad thing from anyone like you hear about backstabbing. 

As for backstabbing, I don't do it often, but I have no problem doing it when I feel the need to.


----------



## five.five-six

LMAO. I need more popcorn.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> As for backstabbing, I don't do it often, but I have no problem doing it when I feel the need to.




Really the only time I find myself using a backstab is when I come in behind someone who tripled out of a too small of a box, I use 2 sets of screws and a set of back stabs. And that’s only if I don’t have screw clamp device available and it’s #14.


----------



## splatz

Crimping stranded conductors with modular plugs : wagos or push in terminal blocks
::
crimping solid conductors with modular plugs : backstab 

It may feel the same to you but the difference is in the details.


----------



## splatz

five.five-six said:


> Really the only time I find myself using a backstab is when I come in behind someone who tripled out of a too small of a box, I use 2 sets of screws and a set of back stabs. And that’s only if I don’t have screw clamp device available and it’s #14.


Just like you sometimes backstab because even though it's a ****ty option it may be the least ****ty option at the time, sometimes crimping a modular plug on a solid conductor cable is the least ****ty option. But it's still a ****ty option.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> If you want to educate me, you can teach me how to hang ceiling fans for grandma.


 ...and about low voltage wiring, since I clearly know more about it than you.

You see, you learned valuable electrical knowledge from me in this thread. You should thank me.

As for hanging ceiling fans for grandma, I don't know anything about that. That is probably something that you did on the side while you were stocking shelves at Home Depot a few years ago. Remember that? 


> Not much room on these forums for a guy like you with awkward social skills and nearly negative intelligence


 You know that I am more intelligent than you, and it eats you up inside. That's where all this pent up hostility towards me comes from. It's ok, I'm not mad at you. I'll still be here to help.


----------



## five.five-six

B-Nabs said:


> How do you feel about loaded VS unloaded patch panels? I like loaded for speed and ease, but unloaded benefits from the ability to change out a single jack if needed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


I can count on one hand how many bad jacks I have seen in a patch panel over 35 years.

You are supposed to use the punch tool on low impact setting for patch panels, that substantially increases the reliability of patch panels. 


I come back with a fresh blade on my utility knife to catch any stragglers.

When you say “unloaded” are you talking about the RMU plates that have keystone holes you add your one jacks? I will use those on occasion if it’s a smaller job with twisted pair and coax and cat 3 voice so I can put everything in 2-4 RMU clean. But for regular use, they take up wayyyyyyy too much space.


----------



## 99cents

splatz said:


> Just like you sometimes backstab because even though it's a ****ty option it may be the least ****ty option at the time, sometimes crimping a modular plug on a solid conductor cable is the least ****ty option. But it's still a ****ty option.


You two should quit arguing.


----------



## splatz

Really nice! My favorite part is the wraps, is that waxed twine over some black wrap? 

I try to never use 96 port panels, I won't use a panel over 2U, 48 port panels. I like having more room for cable management. I also like having the switch port numbers match the panel port numbers when possible. 



five.five-six said:


> Nothing is 100%. I had a single jack fail on a Leviton 96 port CAT6 patch panel NIB and those things are spendy, not to mention a lot of work terminating them. Good thing there are replaceable 6 jack modules and I didn’t have to retire the entire thing for 1 jack
> 
> I think this photo is from that actual installation


----------



## HackWork

five.five-six said:


> LMAO. I need more popcorn.


I am trying to figure out if this thread is dildos, or if it has AIDS. It could go either way...


----------



## splatz

five.five-six said:


> I can count on one hand how many bad jacks I have seen in a patch panel over 35 years.
> 
> You are supposed to use the punch tool on low impact setting for patch panels, that substantially increases the reliability of patch panels.
> 
> 
> I come back with a fresh blade on my utility knife to catch any stragglers.
> 
> When you say “unloaded” are you talking about the RMU plates that have keystone holes you add your one jacks? I will use those on occasion if it’s a smaller job with twisted pair and coax and cat 3 voice so I can put everything in 2-4 RMU clean. But for regular use, they take up wayyyyyyy too much space.


The Siemon patch panels are rated for the big impact tool, the slammer. They are made very well. But I don't like Siemon these days. 

This screwdriver from Klein is my favorite thing to terminate patch panels with: 

https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/punchdown-tools/punchdown-screwdriver-multi-tool 

Leviton has some pretty dense unloaded style panels. I think Hubbell too.


----------



## splatz

B-Nabs said:


> How do you feel about loaded VS unloaded patch panels? I like loaded for speed and ease, but unloaded benefits from the ability to change out a single jack if needed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


I like the loadables most of the time. You don't pay for unused ports, you can color code, and you can mix Cat 5e, Cat6, etc in the same panel.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> ...and about low voltage wiring, since I clearly know more about it than you.
> 
> You see, you learned valuable electrical knowledge from me in this thread. You should thank me.
> 
> As for hanging ceiling fans for grandma, I don't know anything about that. That is probably something that you did on the side while you were stocking shelves at Home Depot a few years ago. Remember that?
> You know that I am more intelligent than you, and it eats you up inside. That's where all this pent up hostility towards me comes from. It's ok, I'm not mad at you. I'll still be here to help.


So, in addition to being a blowhard who likes to hear himself talk, you’re now a fake psychologist. You amaze me but not in a good way.

I sold my business and was on the move. Instead of sitting around waiting for my house to sell, I took a temporary gig at HD. Tell me what’s wrong with that.


----------



## HackWork

splatz said:


> The Siemon patch panels are rated for the big impact tool, the slammer. They are made very well. But I don't like Siemon these days.
> 
> This screwdriver from Klein is my favorite thing to terminate patch panels with:
> 
> https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/punchdown-tools/punchdown-screwdriver-multi-tool
> 
> Leviton has some pretty dense unloaded style panels. I think Hubbell too.


That screwdriver uses just your hand pressure? No spring loaded impacting?

I always wondered why it was necessary to impact the conductors into the forks in the jacks. The Leviton keystone jacks I bought long ago came with a little plastic tool to push the wires in and it worked perfect then and still does now.


----------



## five.five-six

splatz said:


> Really nice! My favorite part is the wraps, is that waxed twine over some black wrap?
> 
> I try to never use 96 port panels, I won't use a panel over 2U, 48 port panels. I like having more room for cable management. I also like having the switch port numbers match the panel port numbers when possible.


It’s called 9 cord and fish paper. There a dozen stitches I know about 4. I have seen 9 cord on telegraph cables that has been in service for 100 years yet tie wraps get brittle and fail in 20 years or less 


96 port is really nice because you can just use the numbers on the panel. I’ll set 3 of those and each location gets 3 cables. The plate just gets labeled 8 or 11 or 57 and the top port is top panel, center panel for center port and bottom port for bottom panel. IT departments absolutely love this setup and I basically get no-bid contracts.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> So, in addition to being a blowhard who likes to hear himself talk, you’re now a fake psychologist. You amaze me but not in a good way.


Keep digging buddy. This type of BS from you turns people ****.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> That screwdriver uses just your hand pressure? No spring loaded impacting?
> 
> I always wondered why it was necessary to impact the conductors into the forks in the jacks. The Leviton keystone jacks I bought long ago came with a little plastic tool to push the wires in and it worked perfect then and still does now.


I think it’s a throwback to type 66 


I will tell you that when you are punching down hundreds of cables at a time, the impact helps a lot.


----------



## splatz

HackWork said:


> That screwdriver uses just your hand pressure? No spring loaded impacting?
> 
> I always wondered why it was necessary to impact the conductors into the forks in the jacks. The Leviton keystone jacks I bought long ago came with a little plastic tool to push the wires in and it worked perfect then and still does now.


Yes, no spring assist, you don't even miss it if the tool is nice and sharp.


----------



## HackWork

five.five-six said:


> I think it’s a throwback to type 66
> 
> 
> I will tell you that when you are punching down hundreds of cables at a time, the impact helps a lot.


I'm not arguing it, I am just curious _why_ on a technical level. If you can easily push the conductor to the back of the fork, what benefit is the impacting? I'm sure there is a reason since it is universally done that way.


----------



## five.five-six

splatz said:


> The Siemon patch panels are rated for the big impact tool, the slammer. They are made very well. But I don't like Siemon these days.
> 
> This screwdriver from Klein is my favorite thing to terminate patch panels with:
> 
> https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/punchdown-tools/punchdown-screwdriver-multi-tool
> 
> Leviton has some pretty dense unloaded style panels. I think Hubbell too.



On medium and larger jobs, space for cable is an absolute concern. It’s very possible to run out of room for cable if it’s not engineered correctly 


As for that screwdriver, probably when I was younger but these ole eyes need the old T&B yellow for cut and blue for cable handled tool.


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> I'm not arguing it, I am just curious _why_ on a technical level. If you can easily push the conductor to the back of the fork, what benefit is the impacting? I'm sure there is a reason since it is universally done that way.


The punch down tool has a cutting edge on one side that snips the wire (or at least makes it easy to twist the stray end off). The impact also ensures the wire is seated well.


----------



## splatz

HackWork said:


> I'm not arguing it, I am just curious _why_ on a technical level. If you can easily push the conductor to the back of the fork, what benefit is the impacting? I'm sure there is a reason since it is universally done that way.


There are electric punchdown tools that do the slamming for you. There's no technical reason for it, it doesn't benefit the connection in any way. It's just for the operator. 

Having grown up digging ditches, hauling concrete and bailing hay, and busting my hump on a regular basis even now, I just think I'll never, ever give a **** whether my punchdown tool helps cut the itty bitty wire. 

The older punchdown tools were non-impact, I have a few of them in the archives. You can still buy non-impact punchdown tools, some are even decent quality.


----------



## splatz

99cents said:


> The punch down tool has a cutting edge on one side that snips the wire (or at least makes it easy to twist the stray end off). The impact also ensures the wire is seated well.


In Canada they have the weirdest punchdown tool, it has a little scissors on it, the BIX. The Krone is weird too, but really superior IDC connectors. I used to do a lot of work for a telco that was a Nortel shop, and they used a lot of Bix stuff.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> I'm not arguing it, I am just curious _why_ on a technical level. If you can easily push the conductor to the back of the fork, what benefit is the impacting? I'm sure there is a reason since it is universally done that way.


On the old 66 terminations, it worked really well. On 110, not so much. They do work much better with a fresh T&B or other quality blade.


----------



## five.five-six

HackWork said:


> I'm not arguing it, I am just curious _why_ on a technical level. If you can easily push the conductor to the back of the fork, what benefit is the impacting? I'm sure there is a reason since it is universally done that way.



The “punch” part is for cutting the wire, the wire should be fully seated between the blades of the connector before the snap.


----------



## five.five-six

splatz said:


> The older punchdown tools were non-impact, I have a few of them in the archives. You can still buy non-impact punchdown tools, some are even decent quality.



With a fresh blade, I don’t even push hard enough to activate the impact. Just a straight push and it seats the water and trims it.


----------



## HackWork

five.five-six said:


> The “punch” part is for cutting the wire, the wire should be fully seated between the blades of the connector before the snap.


Yeah, 99cent's post reminded me of that. I completely forgot.

Most punchdown tools I used were company tools and the blades must have been old because they never cut the wires very well. I always ran my razor across them to be sure they were cut and then jiggled them off.

So that is what I ended up doing with the plastic tool Leviton gives you for free.


----------



## splatz

five.five-six said:


> On medium and larger jobs, space for cable is an absolute concern. It’s very possible to run out of room for cable if it’s not engineered correctly.


See now usually for me it's the little places that are trying to cram their wiring in a literal closet where space is an issue, the big places have IDFs as big as offices. 

But the Leviton loadables are as dense as 72 ports in 2RU, is your 96 port that dense? 

https://www.leviton.com/en/products/49255-d72


----------



## cuba_pete

Why are y'all using 5E when you should be running 7A...or fiber???:surprise:






:wink:


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> Yeah, 99cent's post reminded me of that. I completely forgot.
> 
> Most punchdown tools I used were company tools and the blades must have been old because they never cut the wires very well. I always ran my razor across them to be sure they were cut and then jiggled them off.
> 
> So that is what I ended up doing with the plastic tool Leviton gives you for free.


The little free Leviton tool is good to keep in your bag for a quick hit and run.


----------



## CoolWill

HackWork said:


> I am trying to figure out if this thread is dildos, or if it has AIDS. It could go either way...


It has gay AIDS... Not that there's anything wrong with that.


----------



## CoolWill

splatz said:


> In Canada they have the weirdest punchdown tool, it has a little scissors on it, the BIX. The Krone is weird too, but really superior IDC connectors. I used to do a lot of work for a telco that was a Nortel shop, and they used a lot of Bix stuff.


Nerd.:glasses:


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> The little free Leviton tool is good to keep in your bag for a quick hit and run.


 :whistling2:









Very old picture though. I haven't seen that in a decade.


----------



## five.five-six

splatz said:


> See now usually for me it's the little places that are trying to cram their wiring in a literal closet where space is an issue, the big places have IDFs as big as offices.
> 
> But the Leviton loadables are as dense as 72 ports in 2RU, is your 96 port that dense?
> 
> https://www.leviton.com/en/products/49255-d72



The 96 are 4RMU those unloaded panels won’t work with EZ type jacks, you have to use the HD type and that burns time.


As far as space, it’s always a fight for every square foot. Even in a 10’s of thousands of sq foot location.. If they don’t like my requirements, they can use another contractor, and some customers have but they have always regretted it.


----------



## MikeFL

HackWork said:


> ....
> 
> BTW, RJ45EZ's do not have 100% reliability.


They do in this shop.


----------



## HackWork

MikeFL said:


> They do in this shop.


And 18 gauge zip cord on 20A breakers is 100% reliable in many houses.


----------



## MikeFL

Hack all I'm saying is every time I use a EZ it works.
Prior to EZ there was a failure rate at time of crimping. Then there were the failures which came later, which is even worse.
EZ = happy!


----------



## HackWork

MikeFL said:


> Hack all I'm saying is every time I use a EZ it works.
> Prior to EZ there was a failure rate at time of crimping. Then there were the failures which came later, which is even worse.
> EZ = happy!


I understand. It works for you. 

I was responding to you saying that the EZ plug had 100% reliability. 

Now throw away that crimper and go to Amazon or Monoprice.


----------



## 99cents

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

If I learned anything from this...erm..._discussion_, it’s that I will continue doing it the same way for my fast food joints. Customer just wants his menu boards and cash to work, nothing more. If it’s more complicated, I farm it out to my buddy anyway. He has good eyes and knows what he’s doing.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
> 
> If I learned anything from this...erm..._discussion_, it’s that I will continue doing it the same way for my fast food joints. Customer just wants his menu boards and cash to work, nothing more.


That same mentality could be used for electric as well. The customer just wants his menu board to work, why not just run an extension cord to it? 

You might not change the way you install tele-data, but you have learned the right way. Now it’s your choice.


----------



## five.five-six

:smile:


99cents said:


> If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
> 
> If I learned anything from this...erm..._discussion_, it’s that I will continue doing it the same way for my fast food joints. Customer just wants his menu boards and cash to work, nothing more. If it’s more complicated, I farm it out to my buddy anyway. He has good eyes and knows what he’s doing.



Read: “I’m committed to preforming sub-standard work and nobody can talk me out of it”.


----------



## Navyguy

If you are really interested in why it is terminated from jack to jack and then the use of patch cords… it is really about legacy and certification.

The old telco systems (and still many in use today) use a cross-connect system where the “infrastructure” was permanently wired to one rack (cold rack) and the equipment was wired to another rack (hot rack). The two racks where then cross-connected with wire. This allowed the ability for field changes or equipment changes without touching the infrastructure.

This approach has morphed into data comms where we have cold patch racks and hot server racks. Those rack are “cross-connected” (patched) with the use of patch cords.
The infrastructure is certified to a certain performance level and come with a guarantee for usually 30 years. It also has the benefits of the “cross-connect” system and of course is expandable. The infrastructure stops at the port on either end, then essentially the client is responsible for the connection of equipment and it performance via approved patch cords and wire management practices.

I agree that the crimped connections are the most common point of failure. I use the “ez jacks” when necessary, but almost exclusively I purchase a patch cord. I generally use individual ports with Leviton and a special tool called the Rapid Jack, which had interchangeable heads for different jacks / ports.

We also do a lot of Bix up here on legacy systems; we even still have some Cat5e Bix systems being used that are in excellent condition.

Cheers
John


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> That same mentality could be used for electric as well. The customer just wants his menu board to work, why not just run an extension cord to it?
> 
> You might not change the way you install tele-data, but you have learned the right way. Now it’s your choice.


You’re right. I don’t care. The crimps work and that’s good enough for me. Like I said, anything beyond a few connections, I sub it out anyway.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> You’re right. I don’t care. The crimps work and that’s good enough for me. Like I said, anything beyond a few connections, I sub it out anyway.


I hear you. I don’t disagree with you at all. 

I don’t do a lot of things that other people do, whether it be due to Code or just etiquette.


----------



## dronai

I have about 18 more posts, and I get gift certificate for $50


----------



## Easy

99cents said:


> I don’t do a lot of data and it’s a PITA. It doesn’t help that my fingers don’t work and I’m half blind.
> 
> I bought some pass-through RJ45 jacks. What it means is that you can strip the cable long, push the wires through the jack and then cut them to the proper length. Makes the job an easier PITA.
> 
> Anyway, probably no big deal but I thought I would share because that’s the kind of guy that I am  .


It seems like you and Hackworks are at odds with how to set up RJ45 jacks.
I think it depends on the application. I'm no expert on the subject but if you wanted to provide Ethernet for a TV you would probably install a keystone jack in the wall and use a patch cable for the connection. If you are just running Cat 5e or Cat 6 to a lighting relay or to a camera then I would just go direct with an RJ45 connector. Why add an extra termination point that could fail.


----------



## Easy

I am totally new to making my own patch cables. I have a cheap ass crimper and have had very bad luck making patch cables. My eye sight is not that good so the EZ through jacks are the only way I can even line up the conductors in the proper order. I also have a tester to check the cables after I make them up. My failure rate is high. Most of the patch cables I have made up have opens. It could be the crimper I'm using or the RJ45 jacks I got on ebay. Hack might have a legitimate point about buying patch cables rather than making your own. The female jacks are just punched down and I don't ever have problems with them. The shortest patch cable I found on ebay was 1.5 feet long and cost about $3 each. I'm a total amateur at this so hopefully a data guy will have better info.
I can say that the data guy that does all of our control 4 installs only uses male jacks and just goes direct just like you mentioned. None of his connections seem to fail or have issues.


----------



## 99cents

Seven pages on data jacks and nobody has convinced me. I have never had a call back and I have bad eyes too. I don’t intend on making a living off of scissors in a mini pouch anyway.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> Seven pages on data jacks and nobody has convinced me. I have never had a call back and I have bad eyes too. I don’t intend on making a living off of scissors in a mini pouch anyway.


With the amount of it that you do, I would doubt you would ever get a call back. 

It's just a standard. A logical demarcation for the building wiring to end and the end-user wiring to begin. 

If you bring the wires out from the wall and into the device, then when someone goes to change that device and damages the plug or someone cuts the wire when working near it, they need to bring in a pro to either patch it or pull a new wire the whole way. 

If you terminate your wiring into a female jack, with all the wiring behind it in the walls and protected, then the cable that plugs into it can be replaced with any other similar cable for $5 or less.

If you are going to do a few here and there, it's not a big deal either way.


----------



## HackWork

Easy said:


> I am totally new to making my own patch cables. I have a cheap ass crimper and have had very bad luck making patch cables. My eye sight is not that good so the EZ through jacks are the only way I can even line up the conductors in the proper order. I also have a tester to check the cables after I make them up. My failure rate is high. Most of the patch cables I have made up have opens. It could be the crimper I'm using or the RJ45 jacks I got on ebay. *Hack might have a legitimate point about buying patch cables rather than making your own.* The female jacks are just punched down and I don't ever have problems with them. The shortest patch cable I found on ebay was 1.5 feet long and cost about $3 each. I'm a total amateur at this so hopefully a data guy will have better info.
> I can say that the data guy that does all of our control 4 installs only uses male jacks and just goes direct just like you mentioned. None of his connections seem to fail or have issues.


 First, it's not Hack that might have a legitimate point about this, I am merely repeating what the pro's say.

Second, I would avoid eBay. Look at both Monoprice and Amazon. You can buy packs of 1 foot long patch cables or any other length for very cheap.


----------



## MotoGP1199

I don't do much stuff with data jacks. I had to do some and I could not find my old school crimper. I went to home depot and bought the Klein pass through set up which was a little bit more money. After using that I will never go back to a standard crimper. If I lose this Kline crimper and find my old school one I will still go buy a brand new pass through. They are that much better. You won't understand until you try it.


----------



## HackWork

@Easy

Here is a 5-pack of 1 footers for $10: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C4U030G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For $11 you can get a 5-pack of 3 footers: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C2CBBAM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

$14 for a 5-pack of 5 footers: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C2DL96W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

$20 for a 5-pack of 10 footers: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C2CA3N8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

That is the brand that I have been using, they have a lot of great reviews and the bad reviews are usually from idiots. But there are many different brands out there that are probably just as good.


----------



## emtnut

They should just come up with some scheme to make all that chit wireless:biggrin:


----------



## 99cents

MotoGP1199 said:


> I don't do much stuff with data jacks. I had to do some and I could not find my old school crimper. I went to home depot and bought the Klein pass through set up which was a little bit more money. After using that I will never go back to a standard crimper. If I lose this Kline crimper and find my old school one I will still go buy a brand new pass through. They are that much better. You won't understand until you try it.


You’re a very wise man. If I have trolled you in the past, I apologize. Hack made me do it.


----------



## Easy

HackWork said:


> First, it's not Hack that might have a legitimate point about this, I am merely repeating what the pro's say.
> 
> Second, I would avoid eBay. Look at both Monoprice and Amazon. You can buy packs of 1 foot long patch cables or any other length for very cheap.


Dear Mr. Hackworks

I am going with the pro's. 
No more crimping RJ-45s. 
I will buy only quality patch cables with factory ends.
I will install Keystone jacks and use the appropriate punch down tool.

I'm serious ... I hate making up patch cables. 

Sincerely
Easy


----------



## 99cents

I think I’m gonna puke.


----------



## HackWork

99cents said:


> I think I’m gonna puke.


Your Amazon order of 100 patch cables came to my house by accident, don't try to hide it :vs_mad:


----------



## 99cents

HackWork said:


> Your Amazon order of 100 patch cables came to my house by accident, don't try to hide it :vs_mad:


That wasn’t an accident. Send me five and you keep the rest. That will keep me going for 2020, maybe longer.


----------



## AVService

You can buy pre made cables at all ADI stores for cheap too and there are 100 locations to use if you are in the business.

There is no real excuse to make your own in many situations and mist equipment makers point to making your own as the biggest service issues that they see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeSparky

HackWork said:


> Keep digging buddy. This type of BS from you turns people ****.


You seem to have a lot of deep personal knowledge of homos


----------



## HackWork

:vs_OMG:


----------



## MTW

JoeSparky said:


> You seem to have a lot of deep personal knowledge of homos


He does. :shifty:


----------



## HackWork

MTW said:


> He does. :shifty:


Are you mad that Gay Joe is copying your silly shtick of bumping old threads? You patented it years ago. How dare he?


----------



## MTW

HackWork said:


> Are you mad that Gay Joe is copying your silly shtick of bumping old threads? You patented it years ago. How dare he?


Oh, I see.


----------



## HackWork

MTW said:


> Oh, I see.


PM me NOW! :vs_mad::vs_mad:


----------



## VELOCI3

I did a lot using this. The patch panels were empty and the same jack that snapped into the wall plates snapped into the patch panels. Don’t know if they still sell these. Everything went to cat6 for us after 2010


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

