# Anyone familiar with NCCER Electrical Training?



## MikeFL

You don't say where "here" is. 
Every state is different as far as licenses.
And what you want to do makes a difference.
Do you eventually want to be an electrical contractor?
Or do you just want to get out in the field and pull wire, do service work, etc.?


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## Bird dog

You're 60yrs old. Is this going go be a hobby or just something to keep you engaged? There may be easier ways of making money if you really need it. How about a computer consultant?


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## pjc123

@MikeFL. I am in Kentucky, been living in a motel for the last couple of months job searching. Right now I am not looking any further past becoming an electrician, or as the title is here, Journeyman Electrician. I am not sure yet if I would eventually want to get into residential or the commercial/industrial field. Eventually learning about PLC's and the like would be interesting and utilize my programming skills, so something to think about.
@Bird dog. After a couple years out of the computer field I have accepted that it is over. I am happy as long as I am learning something new. It would certainly not be just a hobby, especially after wiping out most of the money I saved up looking for work. I lost my pension and benefits after 22 years working with AT&T Bell Laboratories after a Japanese company bought our spin-off for its intellectual property and fired everyone, so I haven't had health insurance for 6 or 8 years; luckily I am still healthy.


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## MDShunk

At your age, a computer guy, with a beet tech degree- did you learn Cobol in school? Cobol programmers are in great need (since they're all in retirement) and they pay about whatever you ask.


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## pjc123

MDShunk said:


> At your age, a computer guy, with a beet tech degree- did you learn Cobol in school? Cobol programmers are in great need (since they're all in retirement) and they pay about whatever you ask.


Actually I did Fortran, Basic and Assembly language in school. I never did Cobol since it is a business related language. For a few years at work I built test sets, racks of electronic equipment (power supplies, voltmeters, optical sensors) to test electro-optical devices including lasers, detectors, modulators, etc., and to control environmental chambers, that I programmed in the "C" language to do automated testing. You gotta love it, I had to do quite a bit of internal electrical wiring in the many fixtures I built, so between Ugly's and Home Depot books I learned how to do it at least safely; didn't burn down any facilities anyway. My friend, who is a Master electrician, says he is very thankful to the creators of the Time Life Electrical Wiring books for bringing him a lot of business when homeowners attempted stuff and really messed things up. My favorite line of his is when the owner either said a relative did something in the house or it was always like that, and he knew the homeowner did it, was "You can tell me what you did and I can fix it quickly or pay me by the hour to figure it out". That got them to tell the truth.


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## Lone Crapshooter

I went through the ABC program before the NCCER and later went back and got my KNOWLEDGE Industrial and Commercial electrical certifications. What that means that I have not done the hands on part of the test or anouther way of saying I dont have my Purple card.
I do have all of the electrical electrical text books but mine are 2005 vintage. the date refers to NEC Code references bit the basic course is the same.

It is a 4 year program and there is a lot of practial knowledge as well as theory.
As far as PLC's and other specialities you will learn that after apprenticeship in special classes. I know some apprentices dream of doing PLC programming all day long. All I can say to that is better them than me.
What you are going to have to find a ABC contractor go to work to work for them then in the fall sign up for the apprenticeship program. 
Apprenticeship programs generally follow the local school system callander.
LC


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## MikeFL

Plenty of demand in Florida and even free "readiness" training for any sober soul who shows up on time. 
Full disclosure: it's quite warm on the jobsite.

Call B&I Contractors in Fort Myers. It's an employee owned company been around forever. Can't promise they'll make you an electrician but they will give you a job which utilizes your talents. No schooling necessary. OJT.


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## paulengr

MikeFL said:


> Plenty of demand in Florida and even free "readiness" training for any sober soul who shows up on time.
> Full disclosure: it's quite warm on the jobsite.
> 
> Call B&I Contractors in Fort Myers. It's an employee owned company been around forever. Can't promise they'll make you an electrician but they will give you a job which utilizes your talents. No schooling necessary. OJT.


Ok, lots of huge mistakes here. Let me flip it around and tell you what I see off your resume based on what you've described. Not saying it's true but what resume says.

First, one job. So probably no longer up on the latest anything. Not well rounded. Probably big time hides under the radar and never went anywhere.

Second, no relevant skills except maybe an EET from decades ago in another state. So only suited for apprentice but too old for laborer, probably expects IT industry pay scale at top of career, and no job for months so either damaged goods (unemployable) or desperate and will leave as soon as IT job opens up and is just shot gunning resume to get a temp job.

None of this might be true but your resume will set off instant red flags. There are repairs though. Start with the age thing. Delete the date on your graduation. Just list EET and school name. It's just a check box after all these years. Now for associates you were 20 at graduation, 22 for bachelor's. Drop jobs after college or if it's one long career job change start date later to get your age down to 54-55. None of this is lying...you're just under-reporting experience. Change all the experience like this. Say you worked on/with servers, did network installs, etc. Talk about the overall projects in terms of construction or installation or electrical terms. Programming is configuring/setting up, that kind of thing. If you can stretch it a little even if later years you're a programmer, do it. This should help.

Now forget the training stuff. Construction and maintenance people look at your skills, not your knowledge. It's a skilled trade. You learn skills on the job. You learn knowledge in books and school. They will test your skills the first day and if you are any good, you'll move up quickly. Even laborer on your resume after a couple months has more relevant skill and moves you out of the damaged goods category. That's where your focus should be until you're employable again. If you get another certification right now without any demonstrable skills you still have all the same issues as before. As you can claim you have the basic skills THEN the certifications become meaningful. But only if it's something like getting a contractor or electrical license, not just a training certificate.

Finally forget dice.com and all that because your resume even after you fix it won't work. Most electricians don't have resumes and they suck at job interviews. Companies typically don't advertise there. I'd start with three things. Go apply at local temp agencies. Take anything at first especially construction, light industrial, or electrical. If there is a union hall (at least Eastern Kentucky is very anti-union and some areas don't even do permits), ask for the business manager and sign up as helper/laborer. Finally go to every construction/electrical shop in town and apply in person. Talk to anyone you can. Stop at the trailer on a job site if you see one. Also try going to every motor shop or electrical supply house in town. Maybe for a job, but mostly even on your stops don't just ask if they're hiring. Ask if they know someone who is. Ask Code officials too. Leave no stone unturned.

The big trick is you need to tap into the local electrical business discussion board but you're not a member and it's not advertisef. When I go to an electrical supply house they're all the same. First there is the coffee maker between the door and the counter. There is a line of stools and a long counter. In the down time of 15-30 minutes waiting to get parts, all the electricians are networking and conducting business. Looking for contacts, people, jobs, someone to do X. Or they call the hall or the temp agency to fill a helper slot on a big job. Or call their buddies. Word gets around fast. On a typical industrial job site you might have say 50 steel workers or carpenters or mechanics and between 1 and 4 electricians. If there are two electrical crews chances are we know each other or at least know of each other. We bid against each other and work the same jobs all the time. That's what you need to tap into.

I've been laid off (in Kentucky!) once for 6 weeks in the 2001 recession. That's it. Most electrical infrastructure was put in during the boom years if the 1960s and 70s. It's going on 50 years old and falling apart. There is NO recession in the electrical business except building houses. Hasn't been for at least 25 years. All I hear about is how we can't find anybody with skills and work ethic willing to work. There's no money to be made for the news media and the politicians so they ignore it.

On the job you will be tested on day one and "placed" in a week or two. As I said...skills. As an example even with temp agencies I worked various jobs. After about 3 weeks when I went in to turn in my time sheet they had the "list" at the counter (First in, first out) but I didn't get on that list. They wrote my name at the top off to the side and called me the next day first thing in the morning and rattled off the jobs they had available or called me right then and stressed when they had a job thaf git screwed up where they needed somebody dependable with a good personality to fix it. Pay rate went up a lot too. Same thing in electrical companies.

So my advice is experience first. Get your money flowing again. Get out of the hotel so your living expenses are back down to reasonable. Short term leases are very reasonable. THEN once you've got a better idea and taste of what's going on go after the training. Otherwise you'll be still stuck in the same rut...unemployable, no relevant skills, degree and experience that doesn't apply (yet) because of the basic skills issue.

Another option if you insist on school...home inspector certificate or thermographer or maybe compressed air auditor. The tools these days are cheaper than what you eventually need as an electrician. Your skills are not as easy to determine. The work is much less labor intensive, and takes a fair amount of analytucal/problem solving like what you do in programming. And gets you into the trades. Inspectors get business through real estate agents. Thermographers have to advertise to local utilities (home energy auditors) and local industrial plants.

A lot of guys at your age do insurance auditor too. Pay is decent and it gets you in a lot of doors. They train so no up front cost. Think Hartford Boiler, Factory Mutual, that sort. They have high turnover because auditors find other work quickly (hint, hint). Insurance companies just want someone "clean" and dependable that is comfortable in the business environment with enough wisdom not to shoot their mouth off.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## splatz

A few idea for you, no particular order. 

To your question, the IBEW JATC training is high quality and no out of pocket expense, pretty hard to beat. I think it would be real tough getting in an IBEW local at 60 though. 

I'd not get too fixated on becoming an electrician, at least not through the usual path, getting your license, etc. Beggars can't be choosers: go where ever someone will pay you well for your skills and abilities. If it works out for you great but it's just not easy getting in. 

Likewise I personally would be real flexible about relocating where ever the economy is flush, the cost of living affordable, and most importantly where you can get a good job. Is it doing well in TN? Most of the country is doing much better but still some places demand for labor is much higher than others. 

If you have to take a low level job, look for jobs with opportunity for rapid advancement. In the tightest markets they are taking anyone - guys just paroled, just out of rehab, etc. It might not be a treat working with them, but it will be easier to be the best of the bunch. In many jobs, that just means you get to be the guy that holds the keys - you're still going to be a low paid grunt. Look for places they can PAY MORE if you do more. This doesn't happen much with electrical apprentices. 

I believe that larger companies will be more likely to hire you. Small contractors etc. might not say it out loud but they will discriminate without a second thought on any basis they feel like. Most of them don't even realize there is such a thing as age discrimination. Larger companies have HR departments and at least at some level fear lawsuits. Make no mistake a middle aged white guy is pretty darn safe to discriminate against. But at least they'd think twice and give you a chance. 

Along the lines of some of @Paul engr 's remarks - I'd go to a temp agency and sign up for whatever is available so you're not sitting around doing nothing. 

I don't know what it's like in TN but here the big building controls companies would be an excellent prospect for you. Good fit with your skills. One that rhymes with Monson Controls comes to mind. They need computer guys, controls guys, and HVAC guys. For the hands on field work they organize you into the union when you are hired, that means you don't have to convince the boys at the hall you're a good candidate, i.e. you don't have to be someone's son or nephew. They pay above scale, sometimes way above scale. The technical term for these jobs is a "WET DREAM."


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## Lone Crapshooter

With Opioid and other problems what I am seeing as long as you have a heart beating in your chest and can pee straight into a bottle they will hire you.
Show up for work on time and your age is not a problem and you can build yourself a career.
You may not be able to run 4" galvanized all day but they guy that they are going to replace you with more than likely woln't even show for work. 
At this point in time it is the sober workers market.

LC


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## paulengr

In terms of areas, ANYWHERE in the South is growing FAST. The fastest growing economy in the country is North Carolina, particularly the piedmont (Raleigh to Greensboro) known as the golden road for a reason...everything that gets built there turns to gold. The growth rate is insane. How insane? The population of Wake county (Raleigh) grew by 50% in under 10 years and it's just now starting to take off. They have one company that builds interstate highways that basically just does a "ring" around Raleigh every 5 years or so to add a lane, then goes around and around, adding a lane each time, never stopping. The local college here in Greenville that is NOT in the golden road was at around 15,000 students in 2009. Now it's going to top 30,000 in 2019. 10 years...think about what that does to the infrastructure, the roads, the jobs. You don't see anything like that anywhere in the North except around North Dakota. The major economy here was tobacco, textiles, and furniture at one time. Textile mills have become manufacturing plants. And tobacco...well what happened that is where we became the biotech pharma capital ot the world. The same workers with the same skills, R&D, etc., can pretty much do what they do with any drug, not just tobacco. So they converted to a pharmaceutical business at just the right time and...well, BOOM. The business quite literally blew up big time. Think silicon valley but something more sustainable. Remember that silly bank recession thing? It hit Charlotte pretty hard because they quite literally have the biggest of the "too big to fail" companies (hint, Blank of America headquarters). But we've got "little" guys everywhere, like the top LED manufacturer (Cree) who built their headquarters in the middle of the big "biopharma" industrial park known as RTP. Oh and I guess we're big enough now that Amazon decided they need to headquarters and the new one is opening in...wait for it...Raleigh. 50,000 people not counting "support", housing, etc. I have no idea where in the world they are going to build it or how the infrastructure will support that monster.

There are similar stories all over the South. So let's see...tons of independent electrical contractors, a work demand that is just exploding everywhere, no unions, just enough regulation to keep things halfway honest, quite literally there is zero or really negative unemployment with certain sectors. That's in a good area.

Going a little further out we have two of the largest military bases in the world, Bragg (army) and Lejeune (marines) plus a bunch of "minor" ones that would be considered majors in any other area. And you do NOT have to be enlisted or NCO to work there. Probably half the base personnel are not enlisted. And trust me...there is a ton of work that goes on there too all the time. The stories about government waste are mostly true, too, but we don't mind in the private sector around here.

In "bad" areas if your goal is a second career that is far removed from what you do now you've got to "bridge" the void. Not an easy thing to do. Some more ideas. First start with a book called "What Color is My Parachute". It's really good for this specific sort of thing and will give you a ton more ideas. That's more of a career-oriented book. It talks a lot more than I did about the best strategies for finding a job, and has large sections dedicated to career changes.

For myself, well, I really haven't deviated much from where I started in some ways but in large ways I've jumped careers by a long shot. I started out growing up on a family farm. I can run hogs, plow a field, shovel stuff, run heavy equipment, and fix anything with the best of them. I went to college and got into process engineering in mining...the guys that spend all their time trying to figure out how to tweak a mine processing plant to get more out of it, or design new ones. I got pretty far but got tired of it so this is where I decided to do a career change. So it took a little time and I had to work through a head hunter to pull it off but I managed to land a job as a maintenance foreman in a small mine working for a big national company that doesn't pay well, but I did some process work but mostly kept the place running. I learned a lot when I was there all at once. The electrician and mechanics taught me a lot that I never learned in school or on the farm. That's the skills thing I was talking about. Now it's all old hat but back then you could say I was green as grass and pretty clueless. Next one was to a "plant engineer" in a maintenance department but this time in the first cast iron pipe plant in the United States. I sort of took what I already learned and then just kept pushing myself to go further and learn as much as I could. I found myself doing more coaching with the electricians this time instead of the other way around. We had some truly old stuff still running there. Did mostly maintenance projects but did a lot more of "fix anything" blended with the old process engineering gig. Our process engineer was an idiot so I did a lot of behind the scenes bailing him out too. Then went into "electrical engineer" in the maintenance department for a huge mine (1100 employees, almost twice that in contractors at one point). I basically became responsible for doing all the project work, planning, etc., to keep the infrastructure as well as new stuff going when it came to electrical. Also spent countless hours helping electricians out with troubleshooting, repairs, you name it. So sounding like all engineering for the most part even if I get my hands dirty once in a while? Well I got about as far as you can go as an engineer anywhere and I was at that point where I would have to live out of a hotel room to go further in that career or jump to management. I became a big time threat to the boot licking managers mostly because I had the support and credibility with the maintenance crews (aka leadership qualities) and they didn't, so I became a threat and we parted ways. After that I went another direction. Now I'm kind of doing the same thing again but this time it's for a large motor shop. I'm leading the electrical field service work which right now means most of the time, I'm DOING the electrical field service work. I'm turning wrenches, pulling wire, running conduit or tray, you name it. Probably half my time is troubleshooting and repair. I'm sort of back on my tools like I was growing up and loving it. I still work on farms on occasion, too.

Now here's the surprise shocker...it pays about the same to be a senior level engineer as it does to be a senior level skilled craftsman. There is a major difference in terms of job stress (more physical, less mental). And if you look sideways into other careers I'm seeing the same pattern. Somewhere around the low six figures except for maybe differences in areas like living/working in Manhattan or silicon valley for instance or where insurance or regulatory/expenses tend to run up the tab so it sort of evens out, the pay is the same for people that are good at what they do regardless of the job for decent paying jobs with few "negatives". You can get to that $150K-$200K/year pay rate if you make a lot of sacrifices especially towards family life or running your own business but it's often a very big price to pay. So right now I'm probably not making quite what I could make, but I have had to "sacrifice" but not spending weeks on end on the road away from my wife and kids, and I've had to "sacrifice" about 90% of my stress load, among other things. So that's the way I look at it...I'm making the same or almost as much as an engineer makes but I'm able to enjoy doing what I do, the people I work with, and my personal time far more than I did when I was truly an engineer.

I'm going to keep doing what I do until either my health starts giving out or I'm no longer happy doing what I do. Then it's time to change again. Or maybe I'll have enough money and kids out of college to where I can just retire happy. But I know what I'm like when I'm not working (crawling the walls) so I don't really think I'll ever totally stop working. I just might not be bending 500 MCM and putting in 4" conduit, and setting 1500 HP motors anymore.


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## pjc123

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to offer such detailed information. Pretty depressing I must say.....I am going to order Will making software this week.


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## ithrowbuzzsaws

I wanted to add my two cents about the NCCER program as taught by CITC in Washington state. It was the biggest waste of our time you could possibly imagine. We were literally told to highlight specific lines of text in the book, study for a while, then take a test that was word for word what we highlighted. They could care less about teaching anything. If you somehow failed, you could just keep taking tests until you passed. Maybe it is different in other places, but I had a terrible experience with the NCCER program.


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## Bird dog

ithrowbuzzsaws said:


> I wanted to add my two cents about the NCCER program as taught by CITC in Washington state. It was the biggest waste of our time you could possibly imagine. We were literally told to highlight specific lines of text in the book, study for a while, then take a test that was word for word what we highlighted. They could care less about teaching anything. If you somehow failed, you could just keep taking tests until you passed. Maybe it is different in other places, but I had a terrible experience with the NCCER program.


 Compared to what? Some individuals that's all they have access to.
Btw, I've looked at it, but, never bought it.


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## ithrowbuzzsaws

I guess it is a means to an end. I probably had more of an issue with our school wasting so much of our time. If I have to spend 200 hours a year in class I would personally like to get something out of it. There are a couple other options in my area that provide a lot better learning opportunity.


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## nrp3

You make the best of it. Ideally your employer would pay for your classes, union or non union. When I went through it in the 90’s it was painful because there a lot of disruptive morons in class. Some I probably wouldn’t hire to sweep the floor. I don’t imagine there are too many places with licensing without apprentice schooling. Much of may be math review to begin with. Meet people, make connections, start finding out who’s good to work for. The rest, learn what you can, the best is learned on the job.


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## Vocelectrical

*Nccer to union*

I’m not gonna talk about your age or anything like that. Nccer was a cool foundation for me. I have core curriculum plus levels 1-4 done as well as all of the supplemental courses. I used all of the carts to get into the IBEW. I tried to join abc and get a job but because I was finished with the same stuff they taught I couldn’t be a part of their apprenticeship program, crazy how they will recognize that I have it but won’t employ me.

Nccer is like any educational program, you get out what you put in. I’ve taken a mock version of California journeyman exam and passed. Now I’m starting my career as an inside wireman with local 11 and get to learn everything the Union way. You have thousands of guys trying out for a spot in a Bootcamp with 30 people. Whatever you do just be focused and dedicated to it. My timeline is different than others. Signed up in feb, tested April, interview July 2nd and notified of acceptance July 11. I waited 9 days to get accepted some guys will wait 2 years and have to do it all over again.

If you want to be an electrician then be an electrician. Bend conduit, read the code book, learn to read blueprints. I even went to get certified in welding in five different methods because my instructor said that I should. This was done on my own time after work just to become a badass electrician. That is dedication, I became a welder to become an electrician.


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