# Dishwasher



## BurtiElectric (Jan 11, 2011)

I thought there was an exception that allows u to run 14 to a dishwasher, I can't find it. Can I?
I want to run 14/3 to feed the fridge and then hit the dishwasher.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Whats the nameplate say on the dishwasher? I know the fridge can be supplied by an _individual _branch circuit at least 15 amps...not sure about a mwbc


----------



## BurtiElectric (Jan 11, 2011)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Whats the nameplate say on the dishwasher? I know the fridge can be supplied by an individual branch circuit at least 15 amps...not sure about a mwbc


No DW there yet, I'm roughing in. I could of swore it could be fed by 14. I know about the fridge


----------



## BurtiElectric (Jan 11, 2011)

Really??? Nobody can help me out


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I don't see why you can't supply a dishwasher with a 15 amp circuit


----------



## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

It would depend on the dishwasher. Most can share a 20A circuit with the disposal, or run a dedicated 15A circuit. There is nothing in the NEC that would limit your use specifically to a 20A circuit. 

I can say, that I've never wired a residential dishwasher on a 20A circuit and I have never shared a 20A circuit between a DW and Disposal.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Burt- 

I always run 14/2 to my dishwasher. Why are you thinking it isn't allowed. Both the dishwasher and the garbage disposal get 14/2, I land them both in a switch box near the sink, and then leave a tail out to the appliance.

I think you are over thinking this one. A 15 amp circuit will be fine.


----------



## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

If its just the dishwasher ill run 14/2/2 for the fridge and DW. If there's a disposal ill run 14/2/2 to a 2 gang box under the sink with 2 single outlets and a switch leg up to the counter. I never do MWBC's with 3 wire anymore. I use 14/2/2 or 12/2/2 so I don't need 2 pole breakers.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BurtiElectric said:


> I thought there was an exception that allows u to run 14 to a dishwasher, I can't find it. Can I?
> I want to run 14/3 to feed the fridge and then hit the dishwasher.


Where's the code rule that says you can't? Other than counter and wall spacing receptacles pretty much everything else gets 15 amp circuits.


----------



## bmyers (Sep 16, 2012)

we used to always run a 14/3 to hit dw and disposal. Now I run a 12/2 and hit them both. Never had a problem with either


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I normally run 20 amps for the dishwasher.


----------



## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

If the frig manual says you have to run a 20 ckt then the inspector can fail you for using 14/2.its happened to me once. I personally prefer running a 15a ckt for the fridge. What does it draw 8 amp the most with everything running at the same time?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I normally run 20 amps for the dishwasher.


Why?


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I have run into some DW's with a heavy heating cycle load, can't quite find it this am, but iirc i'd read fixed appliances applied here....~CS~


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MULTIWIRE BRANCH CIRCUIT's will soon be gone in residential work unless you want to use DP afci breakers. Kitchen included. 

To answer the op's question I agree with others that a refrigerator and a dishwasher may be on a separate circuit with 14 amps. I have seen dishwasher's at 12 amps so you would be pushing it perhaps but that is your call. Personally I also run 20 amp circuits to the dishwasher just out of habit as some dishwasher's state to supply with a 20 amp circuit


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Elephante said:


> If the frig manual says you have to run a 20 ckt then the inspector can fail you for using 14/2.its happened to me once. I personally prefer running a 15a ckt for the fridge. What does it draw 8 amp the most with everything running at the same time?



I haven't seen a fridge that specs a 20 amp circuit. Even the big ass sub Z fridges only spec a 15




Dennis Alwon said:


> MULTIWIRE BRANCH CIRCUIT's will soon be gone in residential work unless you want to use DP afci breakers. Kitchen included.
> 
> To answer the op's question I agree with others that a refrigerator and a dishwasher may be on a separate circuit with 14 amps. I have seen dishwasher's at 12 amps so you would be pushing it perhaps but that is your call. Personally I also run 20 amp circuits to the dishwasher just out of habit as some dishwasher's state to supply with a 20 amp circuit



This has come up many time here. One of the last times I looked through a ton of online dishwasher specs and none spec'd a 20 amp. Have you seen any lately or any particular brand?


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Have you seen any lately or any particular brand?


Not that I recall for dishwasher's but I never look much anymore. They are getting energy efficient. I have seen dishwasher's in the past that req. a 20 amp cir but not recently

I have also seen a wine cooler rated 300 watts that specified an individual branch circuit...


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Not that I recall for dishwasher's but I never look much anymore. They are getting energy efficient. I have seen dishwasher's in the past that req. a 20 amp cir but not recently
> 
> I have also seen a wine cooler rated 300 watts that specified an individual branch circuit...


I see the same for the wine coolers.


----------



## Spunk#7 (Nov 30, 2012)

I run #12 minimum to all receptacles,individual appliances,seems to work out.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Spunk#7 said:


> I run #12 minimum to all receptacles,individual appliances,seems to work out.


It does work out, it's a waste in most cases is what I'm saying.


----------



## donselec (May 7, 2011)

i've always run one circuit for dw and gd and never had a problem..


----------



## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

donselec said:


> i've always run one circuit for dw and gd and never had a problem..


Me too. Usually those two appliances are not on at the same time.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

All depends on the nameplate, but realistically I run 14 to every dedicated kitchen appliance and have yet a problem or violation. If you run 14/3 to the fridge outlet and jump 14/2 to the DW just be sure to use a breaker tie or DP unit.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> All depends on the nameplate, but realistically I run 14 to every dedicated kitchen appliance and have yet a problem or violation. If you run 14/3 to the fridge outlet and jump 14/2 to the DW just be sure to use a breaker tie or DP unit.


Can I use (2) SP breakers and a finishing nail? :whistling2:


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Can I use (2) SP breakers and a finishing nail? :whistling2:


You can use silicone for all I care. But that finishing nail often works better than a breaker tie.


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Why does the 3 wire to dw and fridge need to be tied or DP under NEC? We don't do that up in the great white north. 

And how does anyone pull to nameplate? I have never seen a nameplate around during rough in and not even during finishing. Those appliances basically show up when the HO shows up. After I'm basically gone.


----------



## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

FastFokker said:


> Why does the 3 wire to dw and fridge need to be tied or DP under NEC? We don't do that up in the great white north.
> 
> And how does anyone pull to nameplate? I have never seen a nameplate around during rough in and not even during finishing. Those appliances basically show up when the HO shows up. After I'm basically gone.


MWBC shared neutral.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

FastFokker said:


> Why does the 3 wire to dw and fridge need to be tied or DP under NEC? We don't do that up in the great white north.


The purpose of the dp breaker or handle ties on a multiwire branch circuit is to protect the person working on a circuit that they think is off. That shared neutral can hurt someone.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

FastFokker said:


> Why does the 3 wire to dw and fridge need to be tied or DP under NEC? We don't do that up in the great white north.
> 
> And how does anyone pull to nameplate? I have never seen a nameplate around during rough in and not even during finishing. Those appliances basically show up when the HO shows up. After I'm basically gone.


Because here in the states we too many idiot electricians who don't know how to work on a mwb circuit and way too many idiots drawing up the codes.


----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

Dedicated ccts for fridge and D/W, 14/3 if you want. Always done dedicated 14 gauge to each and never had a problem. I also have never hooked up a industrial grade dishwasher either lol


----------



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> ...I have also seen a wine cooler rated 300 watts that specified an individual branch circuit...





electricmanscott said:


> I see the same for the wine coolers.


Yeah, God forbid that anything else might trip out a whine cooler, and spoil all that wine ....


----------



## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

Magnettica said:


> I normally run 20 amps for the dishwasher.


same here 
in general
I only use 14 gauge for lighting circuits unless running low voltage control
12 for all for receptacles
15 amp breakers for lighting/ receptacles in non utility rooms such as living room, bedroom, and bath rooms(gfci)
20 amp gfci for kitchen, washroom, and outside receptacles.

of course also the conductors required if installing electric heating, hot water tanks, ranges and driers
i will run romex but prefer to run conduit ( for rodent protection )
after seeing chewed wiring in an attic and basements


----------



## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

I don't think I have ever pulled #12 to a DW. 

Also I was talking to a plumber a few weeks ago and he said it seems like dishwashers are 50/50 these days for corded vs hard wired. Which is a lot more these days that just a few years ago. 

Makes sense about the DP for 3 wires. Up here we just work on everything live anyway.


----------



## Elephante (Nov 16, 2011)

I usually run 14/2 for dishwasher or 12/2 for dishwasher/disposal and put a receptacle under the sink.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

huh?,
not that they're the end all, but i can specifically r ecall an inspector informing me i SHALL provide a cord/male cord cap. accessible receptacle outlet under the sink

his rationale was the HO always messes with appliances & the dish non-lottable disco .....


~CS~


----------



## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

had a HO call me today about adding a 2nd dishwasher in their island.
house is built on a slab and there is a 14/3 pulled for the 1st dishwasher and disposal. I suggested using one leg for the disposal and 2nd dishwasher since it's on a slab and there's no getting back to the panel. replace duplex rs cover with quad rs cover and install receptacle. install cord on new dishwasher and plug in. that's going to be some easy money for me. :thumbup:


----------

