# why



## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

Unions hate republicans....http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&date=20140217&id=17356264

Not hard to figure out.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

lefleuron said:


> Unions hate republicans....http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&date=20140217&id=17356264
> 
> Not hard to figure out.



And if the Volkswagen plant went union they could easily close up and move away.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

It really IS that simple Lef

corporatism and it's toadies loath collectivism

anything you might pile on top of that is merely parroted hubris 

~CS~


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> And if the Volkswagen plant went union they could easily close up and move away.


 And why is that Harry? Volkswagon never said that, the Republican governer did.

And scared people with his BS.

Republicans just dont understand purchasing power. 10,000 jobs is great, unless they all pay 10 dollars per. Those people have no power to buy anything- they just go on disability. Same money, less work.

Now you give 500 people 25 per, then you have 500 people who can actually afford things. Like new cars, electrical services, vacations.

10,000 jobs means ****, if those people cannot afford anything.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

lefleuron said:


> And scared people with his BS.
> 
> .


Chief MO Lef

like the part where they lay Detroit's demise on the unions

~CS~


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

lefleuron said:


> And why is that Harry? Volkswagon never said that, the Republican governer did.
> 
> And scared people with his BS.
> 
> ...


I understand your numbers are hypothetical, but it's a terrible agruement. Let me prefis this by saying, I am not a republican. 

10,000 Jobs @10/hr is $100,000 economy dollars per hour
500 jobs @ $25/hr is $12,500 economy dollars per hour

Which has more purchasing power for the ECOMONY?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

lefleuron said:


> And why is that Harry? Volkswagon never said that, the Republican governer did.
> 
> And scared people with his BS.
> 
> ...


In regards to what they're being paid , I agree,It seems to me our code of honor has died,IMO people should be paid well regardless of whether they're union or not.

A dollar is worth 25 cents of what it was worth 10 years ago,it's a disgrace.


.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> In regards to what they're being paid , I agree,It seems to me our code of honor has died,IMO people should be paid well regardless of whether they're union or not.
> 
> A dollar is worth 25 cents of what it was worth 10 years ago,it's a disgrace.
> 
> ...


That's right.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Mshow1323 said:


> I understand your numbers are hypothetical, but it's a terrible agruement. Let me prefis this by saying, I am not a republican.
> 
> 10,000 Jobs @10/hr is $100,000 economy dollars per hour
> 500 jobs @ $25/hr is $12,500 economy dollars per hour
> ...


I see where you're going with this, but you're simply computing and ignoring a plethora of endless other variables.

Those 10,000 jobs at $10 will be stuck on government programs to help make ends meet.. so that $100,000 economy dollars will be backed by $1,000,000 social program dollars. It's a net loss for a community and a country.

Jobs have to pay a living wage, or else they're useless. People making $10/hr won't be buying anything but beans and rice.. $100,000 worth of beans and rice. That's just great!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Both parties have been out to break labors back in America for quite a while

~CS~


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Mshow1323 said:


> I understand your numbers are hypothetical, but it's a terrible agruement. Let me prefis this by saying, I am not a republican.
> 
> 10,000 Jobs @10/hr is $100,000 economy dollars per hour
> 500 jobs @ $25/hr is $12,500 economy dollars per hour
> ...


At $10 per hour, you have NO disposable income. You are the working poor, relying on a second job to buy food etc.
Number of jobs is totally different than dollars per hour.

Right to work areas are the poorest paid.


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

wcord said:


> At $10 per hour, you have NO disposable income. You are the working poor, relying on a second job to buy food etc.
> Number of jobs is totally different than dollars per hour.
> 
> Right to work areas are the poorest paid.


Why are unions so afraid of right to work?


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

So my choices are $10 hr with the republican or they shut down the plant. 

Or 

Go on welfare with the democrat after we shut the plant down. 

I think we need different choice.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

rewire said:


> Why are unions so afraid of right to work?


Why not ask why criminals are afraid of the police? Why is fire afraid of water? Why is rewire afraid of a toothbrush?


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Hack Work said:


> Why not ask why criminals are afraid of the police? Why is fire afraid of water? Why is rewire afraid of a toothbrush?


Why is hack afraid of rewire


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

rewire said:


> Why is hack afraid of rewire


It's the lazy eye. Who wouldn't be afraid??


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Hack Work said:


> It's the lazy eye. Who wouldn't be afraid??


I may have only one good eye but I have both my balls


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

rewire said:


> I may have only one good eye but I have both my balls


But we all know you don't get any use out of them.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Hack Work said:


> But we all know you don't get any use out of them.


And what does this have to do with the union/non-union question??? Why are the unions afraid of right to work? Because history has shown when the workers are offered a choice they bail out of the unions. Same thing happened in Wisconsin.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Mshow1323 said:


> I understand your numbers are hypothetical, but it's a terrible agruement. Let me prefis this by saying, I am not a republican.
> 
> 10,000 Jobs @10/hr is $100,000 economy dollars per hour
> 500 jobs @ $25/hr is $12,500 economy dollars per hour
> ...


500 well paying jobs. You don't get it. When workers have no disposable income, and often rely on government subsidies, they're not consumers. We are a consumer-driven economy. You may not be a republican, but you are parroting the republican mantra.


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

wendon said:


> And what does this have to do with the union/non-union question??? Why are the unions afraid of right to work? Because history has shown when the workers are offered a choice they bail out of the unions. Same thing happened in Wisconsin.


Awwwww, that's cute :thumbup::laughing:


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Starting wages at the big 3 (UAW) is $14.50/hr. VW's starting pay, even for interns is $15/hr. After 3 years the average VW assembly worker pay is $20/hr. The only statistic that suggests lower pay at VW than any of the UAW plats is average pay which is skewed from the Generous Motors days where veteran houly workers were drastically overpayed, which nearly destroyed the American auto industry (One of several factors). 

All the UAW was trying to do here is fund thier union, sending money from TN to Detroit to fund the UAW. The WORKERS AT THE PLANT voted down the unions.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

wendon said:


> And what does this have to do with the union/non-union question??? Why are the unions afraid of right to work? Because history has shown when the workers are offered a choice they bail out of the unions. Same thing happened in Wisconsin.


No, they bail out of paying union dues.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Zog said:


> Starting wages at the big 3 (UAW) is $14.50/hr. VW's starting pay, even for interns is $15/hr. After 3 years the average VW assembly worker pay is $20/hr. The only statistic that suggests lower pay at VW than any of the UAW plats is average pay which is skewed from the Generous Motors days where veteran houly workers were drastically overpayed, which nearly destroyed the American auto industry (One of several factors).
> 
> All the UAW was trying to do here is fund thier union, sending money from TN to Detroit to fund the UAW. The WORKERS AT THE PLANT voted down the unions.


The workers of the plant, were erroniously told, via a negative ad campaign funded BY the republicans, that the plant would move out (VW had no intentions of leaving, no matter how the union vote went) and that future prospects for more work and more plants would disappear if the union was voted in. There are already lawsuits filed for a political party intefering with a workers vote for doing this. 

There was mention of comparing wages of union UAW represented workers versus nonunion. But that's not the entire picture. When VW retools for another model, the workers are laid off with no job protections and have to survive on unemployment. Not so under UAW. Without the UAW, VW can rehire whoever it wants, not so under UAW. With the UAW, the workers get a pension. Not so as nonunion workers. It's not all about the hourly wage.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Zog said:


> Starting wages at the big 3 (UAW) is $14.50/hr. VW's starting pay, even for interns is $15/hr. After 3 years the average VW assembly worker pay is $20/hr. The only statistic that suggests lower pay at VW than any of the UAW plats is average pay which is skewed from the Generous Motors days where veteran houly workers were drastically overpayed, which nearly destroyed the American auto industry (One of several factors).
> 
> All the UAW was trying to do here is fund thier union, sending money from TN to Detroit to fund the UAW. The WORKERS AT THE PLANT voted down the unions.


Veteran hourly workers were not drastically overpaid. Their pay was the result of a collective bargaining agreement between the UAW negotiators and the big 3. If their plants and business model would be unsustainable under those agreements, they wouldn't exist. Any mention of "we can't afford that and remain profitable" would result in the big 3 having to PROVE it by opening their books. In which case they opt not to open their books and agree to the demands. Unions don't negotiate to put the industry it represents, and therefore themselves, out of business.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

IslandGuy said:


> The workers of the plant, were erroniously told, via a negative ad campaign funded BY the republicans, that the plant would move out (VW had no intentions of leaving, no matter how the union vote went) and that future prospects for more work and more plants would disappear if the union was voted in. There are already lawsuits filed for a political party intefering with a workers vote for doing this.


I'm sure the UAW guys were 100% truthful on thier side of the campaign. :no:


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Hack Work said:


> But we all know you don't get any use out of them.


At my age your right


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## Hack Work (Dec 29, 2013)

rewire said:


> At my age your right


*You're


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Hack Work said:


> *You're


Your


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

rewire said:


> Your


 you're*


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

Next72969 said:


> you're*


×your×


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

So political factions are out convincing labor unions are evil

I get that

How many here get why...

~CS~


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

It's really simple:

Industry will pay only as much as they have to, to remain profitable.

No one who is worth their salt stays in a job at "minimum wage" very long.


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## mr hands (Sep 15, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> So political factions are out convincing labor unions are evil
> 
> I get that
> 
> How many here get why...


It's money for the other side #1.

#2, once people feel empowered, the top of the pyramid gets a little bit wobbly.

#3, the hillbilly noveau-rich are bad form in a society where other hand-to-mouth hillbillies get these feelings of uppity.

#4, the church is mathematically on the slippery slope downhill. Union membership in an area is inversely proportional to the population of active church members. Less members equals less aggregate tithes.

It's all about the money. End of story. Does the buck stop in your wallet? Or does it keep travelling up the food chain? I say, I'd rather keep the buck for myself.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

rewire said:


> Why are unions so afraid of right to work?


 why would you want a 'right to work state ', its LESS pay for the working class and a lower living standard?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> It's really simple:
> 
> Industry will pay only as much as they have to, to remain profitable.
> 
> No one who is worth their salt stays in a job at "minimum wage" very long.


Hence the push to change what industry "has to" pay. IMHO no job should pay so little that at 40 hours you cannot survive on it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

rewire said:


> ×your×


You are...:laughing:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I see, with all the corporatists greasing the daylight out of Congress to bury the middle class , we're going to blame everything BUT them

rather telling testimony of social engineerings ability to hide the 800lb gorilla in one's living room ....


~CS~


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## 8V71 (Dec 23, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> You are...:laughing:


Yur...


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

8v71 said:


> yur...


u r .


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## rewire (Jul 2, 2013)

360max said:


> why would you want a 'right to work state ', its LESS pay for the working class and a lower living standard?


A Right to Work law secures the right of employees to decide for themselves whether or not to join or financially support a union.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...volkswagens-long-storied-history-with-hitler/


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I rest my case.......~CS~


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Tell that bitch to go make me a samich. :laughing:

For once I agree with Bob.


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