# Interchanging Motor Control Manufacturers.



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I once went to a service call and the electrician said he could not find the correct timer for his machine had been down all weekend.
I went into his supply room found another brand of timer and installed it. The machine was running in one hour.

The problem was, he was afraid to use anything but the brand he had. It had to fit the same mounting, have the same numbered contacts and look alike, for him to have enough confidence to install it and make it work. If he would have removed the bad one, checked what type of timer it was and the contact arrangement he could have saved his company alot of money.

So to answer your question.
No, Most control devices are not exactly the same and do not interchange with one another. But all control devices do basically the same thing and just require the installer to know how they operate.


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## Handasee (Dec 18, 2009)

My orginal post is not about replacing one control device with another manufacturer to make the equipment work.
That is something I do everyday.
But sometimes it is cheaper for the customer if I can find a substitute that is physically the same. 
I have a 20 year old machine with 10 manual motor starters(PKZM0) all connected by a "bussbar" on the line side. If there is no space in the controll panel, then its easier for me to buy an IMO or AEG manual starter that fits in without a problem.The latest manual motor starters have a 45mm wide footprint and will not fit on the original bussbar system that I am giving as an example.
My second example is about cost.
My customer had an Allen Bradley 100C85 contactor that failed.
Phoned my Allen Bradley supplier for a replacement, cost $400 (Canadian)
Called my Sprecher and Schuh supplier, cost $248. Exactly the same contactor. It was a no brainer. Saved my customer some money and my markup was higher than I normally charge.
My question was: What manufactures have name branded there parts with obsolete or current lines and therefore are interchangable?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

When you say buss bar, do you mean a live buss bar providing power to the line side of the contactors or do you mean the mounting bar (Din Rail) that holds the contactor in place?

If it is a live buss bar and the parts are no longer available you should consult your customer about an upgrade. I see the major price difference between the two contactors above and the price. Very expensive for a regular IEC contactor.

Please let me know............John


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## Handasee (Dec 18, 2009)

John
All IEC manual motor starters have a "busbar" that can connect up to 5 manual motor starters together on the line side. For Allen bradley 140M-C series, the part number is 140M-C-W455. Connect you power lines to one
140M and the bussbar connects the other 4 units to power. Looks clean,
saves time, great idea except for 20 years down the road and the dimensions of new starters have changed.
Sprecher &Schuh, Telemecanique and Allen Bradley describes it as "compact busbar". Moeller electric calls it a "Commoning link"
You suggested that "if it is a live buss bar and the parts are no longer available you should consult your customer about an upgrade."
Well, the original manufacturer no longer makes the manual motor starter, but if its an old Moeller PKZM0, then I know that an IMO or AEG starter has exactly the same dimensions.
And that brings me back to my original post.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Yes, I have seen those types before. I vaguely remember. I am sorry I misunderstood your question. 
Research would be the only way to accomplish/enhance this interchangeability list. I did not know that the manufacturers listed in your first post were interchangeable.
Though I am very familiar with everyone you listed.

I may be able to help you monetarily. Try www.wegelectric.com and search automation. There are few that can match their prices. Siemens is also a good place to look if price is a concern.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I hate IEC style motor controls. 

That is all.

Carry on.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

You're not alone, Marc. 

Seen way too many of them fail, especially in 'abusive' environments.

Rob


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## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

There is nothing like the ole NEMA battleships, but they do command their price.


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## Handasee (Dec 18, 2009)

The last three comments have moved over to IEC bashing rather than the topic that I started.
Having worked on the other side of the Atlantic, I have a good understanding of the limitations of IEC and where they are better.
My experience has shown me that the biggest problem is the lack of knowledge about IEC contactors. North American supply houses are selling the IEC contactors as replacement for Nema contactors based on the HP rating. This leads to disappointment, when they burnout too soon.
I have never had a supplier ask me what the utilization category of the contactor that I requested. Nema contactors are large, tough and expensive. Any application that requires jogging, I will always install a Nema contactor. There is no cost savings by buying a IEC contactor for jogging applications. The utilization category requires me to size an IEC contactor 2 or 3 times larger than the HP rating.
When I worked overseas, the first and best book that I was given that explained IEC contactors was from Klockner Moeller. The newest version is available on their website. To understand utilization categories go to chapter 10 page 34. The web site is:
http://www.moeller.net/en/support/index.jsp
Look for the "Moeller Wiring Manual"


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