# Meter feed to new barn



## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

I have a customer who recently built a barn/shop.
It's about 100' from the closest meter base and it is already feeding the house.
Does anyone have a quick code ref. as to wether I can jump off that meter for the barn?
In the barn, there will be 6-7 duplex outlets. (probably 2 diff. Circuits) and 1 220 (welder).
7 lights. (6-8' flor. And 1-4' flor).
I'll probably set a 70 amp panel at barn.
Thoughts?


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## James428 (Jan 12, 2012)

sparky723 said:


> I have a customer who recently built a barn/shop.
> It's about 100' from the closest meter base and it is already feeding the house.
> Does anyone have a quick code ref. as to wether I can jump off that meter for the barn?
> In the barn, there will be 6-7 duplex outlets. (probably 2 diff. Circuits) and 1 220 (welder).
> ...


Take an amp reading off the main for the house, if the amperage checks out install the70 amp as a sub panel


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

If you are talking about a tap, I would say no. I would say you need OCP first. You also need more info. What size is the service, what loads are being supplied now, and so on.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

Also sparky, if it can be reached by an overhead secondary pretty easy, it might be cheaper to set a 100A service at the barn.


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

James428 said:


> Take an amp reading off the main for the house, if the amperage checks out install the70 amp as a sub panel[/quote
> 
> ive heard conflicting stories, is taking the reading off each leg and adding good enough? how true is this?


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

parnellelectric said:


> If you are talking about a tap, I would say no. I would say you need OCP first. You also need more info. What size is the service, what loads are being supplied now, and so on.


What size is the existing service? 200a
It is feeding a whole house. 200A panel.
general loads, recepts,dryer,etc....


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

3xdad said:


> Also sparky, if it can be reached by an overhead secondary pretty easy, it might be cheaper to set a 100A service at the barn.


a totally seperate overhead from the line? 
UGH. 
These people already have 3 meters.
1 for house
1 for another barn WAY off from house
1 across 2 fields from house.

Not sure if they are prepared to drop another.
but $ talks.:thumbsup:


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

sparky723 said:


> James428 said:
> 
> 
> > Take an amp reading off the main for the house, if the amperage checks out install the70 amp as a sub panel[/quote
> ...


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## James428 (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why you take the amp reading off the meter feeding the house. Generally when you take that reading it's implied that their normal usage and then some is being drawn amperage wise. So when I say take an amp reading if you have done service upgrades or sub panels all that is implied from your reading, further more before you can begin to figure calculations you need to see if you have breaker space to feed your sub off of a breaker from the main.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I agree with the amp reading being almost worthless. You need to do a rough calculation


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> I agree with the amp reading being almost worthless. You need to do a rough calculation


Easier than that. Just call poco and get their peak usage. This is more realitic


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Easier than that. Just call poco and get their peak usage. This is more realitic


Ya,but you should be able to figure it up in about 2 minutes. I quik walk thru the house should tell you what you need to know


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

James428 said:


> Take an amp reading off the main for the house, if the amperage checks out install the70 amp as a sub panel



He asked if he could tap off the meter which is supplied by poco. Taking an amperage reading will tell you nothing. I would install a meter with double lugs and set a panel on the barn. We need poco's approval to put more than one meter on a residential property.


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## parnellelectric (Dec 23, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Easier than that. Just call poco and get their peak usage. This is more realitic


Not a bad idea.......


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

parnellelectric said:


> Not a bad idea.......


Normally on residential or rural 1 phase they can't tell you much about demand. At least in my area. You can see how much they use in a month but not demand or even peaks.
Who knows maybe the smart meters will change all that.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

James428 said:


> That's why you take the amp reading off the meter feeding the house. Generally when you take that reading it's implied that their normal usage and then some is being drawn amperage wise. So when I say take an amp reading if you have done service upgrades or sub panels all that is implied from your reading, further more before you can begin to figure calculations you need to see if you have breaker space to feed your sub off of a breaker from the main.


 
He's right. You do a load calc. Taking an amp reading is useless.



*220.87 Determining Existing Loads.​*​​​​The calculation of a
feeder or service load for existing installations shall be
permitted to use actual maximum demand to determine the
existing load under all of the following conditions:
(1) The maximum demand data is available for a 1-year
period.​
_Exception: If the maximum demand data for a 1-year period
is not available, the calculated load shall be permitted
to be based on the maximum demand (measure of average
power demand over a 15-minute period) continuously recorded
over a minimum 30-day period using a recording
ammeter or power meter connected to the highest loaded
phase of the feeder or service, based on the initial loading
at the start of the recording. The recording shall reflect the
maximum demand of the feeder or service by being taken
when the building or space is occupied and shall include by
measurement or calculation the larger of the heating or
cooling equipment load, and other loads that may be periodic​in nature due to seasonal or similar conditions
_


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> He's right. You do a load calc. Taking an amp reading is useless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He said METER BASE...Not LOAD side. Correct?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Bulldog1 said:


> He said METER BASE...Not LOAD side. Correct?


 
Yes, you're 100% correct and I would do it exactly how you said. But my point was, "IF" he was gonna come out of the existing panel, taking an amp clamp reading is useless to determine existing load.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Do you have local codes to deal with? I think the NEC prohibits what you want to do but local codes might allow it.


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

As I stated in one of my previous posts they have 3meters on property.
I can look at house and along with sub panel on outside of house, realize that the home meter is not useable.
They have a meter at an old barn serving almost nothing.
Not only will this give me more to use but is a straighter trench to new barn.
So it's a win/win situation.
Thanks for all of your input.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

I have done something similar but put in a 200a service at the garage also. I will try and dig up a pic of the box, but the POCO replaced the 200a meter base on the house with what I think they called a 300a. Don't ask about the math... The new meter base fed the house panel directly just like before, but there is a separate disconnect for the barn and some breaker spaces for good measure.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Remember, meter bases are rated for continues amps. You can install two underground laterals without OCP. The question should be, is your meter base set up for more than one feed? Here, our meters are on the pole and are combo meter/load enters. With 12 spaces in them.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

I was mistaken slightly. The meter base I mentioned is a 320a Milbank. The disconnect for the barn is a separate enclosure.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

I just got a call to install a Dranetz at a residence for a one week study of their usage. They want to add a pole building somewhere on the property and want to know if they can do a sub from the house main 200A panel. This is a friend of my companies owner, that's the only reason the dranetz is recording at a residential site for a week...


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## Article 90.1 (Feb 14, 2009)

Just use one of these if the existing meter is a Milbank: K4977
http://www.milbankmfg.com/products/catalogs/CatalogFiles/PDF/K4977LoadTapConnector.pdf


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

Article 90.1 said:


> Just use one of these if the existing meter is a Milbank: K4977
> http://www.milbankmfg.com/products/catalogs/CatalogFiles/PDF/K4977LoadTapConnector.pdf


Nice. I like those.


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