# QO panels - GFI Breakers



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

There is a QO dual function AFCI/GFCI breaker with plug on neutral, but not one which is GFCI only.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Spark Master said:


> The QO 60/60 panel, with plug on neutral. Nice panel. My counter guy is telling me there are no QO plug on GFI's. They have pig tails on the breakers.
> 
> I spoke with the inside salesmen as well. And I'm still scratching my head. Why the plug-on neutral bus if there are no plug on GFI breakers ?


My guess is that there is very little demand for GFCI breakers, hence there doesn't appear to be the need for it.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

There would be a demand if they made them. It's just backwards marketing by SD. I'd like to use them in my basement !!! And then another one for my wife's hot tub.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I keep having this funny feeling that the plug on neutral breakers are going to go the way of the other strange QO variants that have appeared briefly in history and disappeared. Maybe I'l be wrong, but I've learned to trust my gut.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> I keep having this funny feeling that the plug on neutral breakers are going to go the way of the other strange QO variants that have appeared briefly in history and disappeared. Maybe I'l be wrong, but I've learned to trust my gut.



They're available in Homeline as well. I don't see this as a fad since square d redesigned their whole loadcenter line to the pon design.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

MTW said:


> They're available in Homeline as well. I don't see this as a fad since square d redesigned their whole loadcenter line to the pon design.


You're probably correct. My personal hangup.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> I keep having this funny feeling that the plug on neutral breakers are going to go the way of the other strange QO variants that have appeared briefly in history and disappeared. Maybe I'l be wrong, but I've learned to trust my gut.



Why so? I dont see pig tail making a comeback.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

They taught the QO as their high end panel. Why not have GFI plug ons ??????


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> You're probably correct. My personal hangup.


That's a pretty strange hangup, to say the least. :jester:


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## tbartek (Nov 30, 2012)

The plug on are really nice if you're using the 2014 standards. Since damn near everything are AFCI's. Really cleans up the panel.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The plug on scheme means that any future breaker in that panel will be a Square D product. ( as AFCIs will be mandatory in virtually every slot )

[ The huge push for AFCIs is essential to stop Chinese imports from taking over the North American market, as older schemes// breaker designs age 'off patent.' ]

It's also plain that the manufacturing cost of the plug on breaker is less than a pigtail, since it lends itself to robotic manufacture -- with no loose ends.

What appears trivial to us in the field is a big factor in automated assembly.

These breakers are now effectively landed on two rails.

AFCIs also have done wonders to eliminate the MWBC, the bane of the copper industry.

Hence, the skill level to install and modify// service residential wiring is dropped to a new low. ( MWBC really puzzle the average Joe. )

Consequently, it's the wave of the future. :thumbup:


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

If you need GFI's, stay away from the QO panel. Go with the homeline, or even the Siemens PL as the neutral buss runs down both sides.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

telsa said:


> The plug on scheme means that any future breaker in that panel will be a Square D product. ( as AFCIs will be mandatory in virtually every slot )


Are you drunk? :001_huh: Square D is proprietary already, of course it will only be a Square D breaker that works.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> Are you drunk? :001_huh: Square D is proprietary already, of course it will only be a Square D breaker that works.


I don't drink.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Spark Master said:


> If you need GFI's, stay away from the QO panel. Go with the homeline, or even the Siemens PL as the neutral buss runs down both sides.


Dude, just put a ****ing arc/gfci combo in already.Same price as a GFI only would be.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Dude, just put a ****ing arc/gfci combo in already.Same price as a GFI only would be.


 I don't need arc fault protection in my wood shop. Nuisance tripping......


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Spark Master said:


> I don't need arc fault protection anywhere in my whole house. Nuisance tripping......


FIFY. :whistling2::thumbup::laughing:

I refuse to put in arc faults, even if they are mandated eventually here. (Yes I am one of those would, to pass inspection, install the AFCI's and then pull and return them to the S/H after I get my green sticker. )


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

mxslick said:


> FIFY. :whistling2::thumbup::laughing:
> 
> I refuse to put in arc faults, even if they are mandated eventually here. (Yes I am one of those would, to pass inspection, install the AFCI's and then pull and return them to the S/H after I get my green sticker. )


I had an inspector tell me that he didn't care if I did that. My kind of inspector. :thumbup:


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## tbartek (Nov 30, 2012)

Spark Master said:


> If you need GFI's, stay away from the QO panel. Go with the homeline, or even the Siemens PL as the neutral buss runs down both sides.


The last QO panel I installed also had neutral bus down both sides.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

tbartek said:


> The last QO panel I installed also had neutral bus down both sides.


 That's only the plug on.


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## BlueOval5272 (Jul 25, 2015)

tbartek said:


> The last QO panel I installed also had neutral bus down both sides.


We use Square D almost exclusively. As I understand it they redesigned the panels to take the new Arc-D-Tect breakers that eliminate the need for pigtailed neutrals. They are supposedly "self diagnosing", but what I have experienced that feature doesn't work all that well.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

MTW said:


> Are you drunk? :001_huh: Square D is proprietary already, of course it will only be a Square D breaker that works.


Both utility patents and design patents run out the clock after 20-years. 

The NEMA players are taking steps to stay in control of their market place -- as best can be.

This new feature surely has patent protection -- that starts the countdown clock all over again.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

telsa said:


> The NEMA players are taking steps to stay in control of their market place -- as best can be.
> 
> .


That is blatantly evident Telsa

what most do not _'get'_ is their phoney shtick of profit cloaked in the guise of safety 

~CS~


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## Knightryder12 (Apr 4, 2013)

I just watched this video and the Square D guys says that this panel will take the plug on and the pigtail type. Or am I not hearing it correctly.


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