# How does Union service work coincide with signing the books?



## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

I just accepted a job offer w/ 659 and after researching the contractor I noticed a lot of his work is service based, does anyone here have experience working for a union contractor that's similar? Curious how it goes if I'm signing book 1 but juggling service work?

Thanks in advance.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Service work can be quite challenging and it depends on what your are servicing. Do you plan on staying with the contractor for the long hall?
Does the contractor have a big crew? Lot's of things to consider but really it can be good or bad it really depends on the person you work for.
Is the work commercial, residential or industrial? Do you like to travel and spend time driving to locations?

If it was me I would strongly consider what the contractor services and if it was restaurants I would probably not be happy working in that environment.
I don't know how the union deals with dispatching people for short term work but sometimes you can get jobs with companies that last a life time and you would never have to go back to the hall and sit on the books waiting for work. Good luck....

BTW ... What does signing on book 1 have to do with the type of work you are assigned to? Service work or construction?


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

I worked for a union contractor that had a small service department. Most of our service work was for Publix and we would fill in on our industrial work to make 40 hours.

Things were pretty much as described above. You are fine if you take a call to the shop and not a specific job. Then you don’t have to drag up when a job ends. Some of them complain and act like foreman pay isn’t necessary for service but they are full of it. Definitely a job that is filled mostly by guys who don’t want to travel and don’t want to job hop. Otherwise known as shop rockets. And imo that’s not derogatory. I was a shop rocket for 6 years


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I was very fortunate to be offered a service truck when I was a young journeyman. It was the best learning experience of my career.
It wasn’t until later in my career I found out that most electricians really don’t know that much about how things work. Most people are on very large jobs and only know how to do exactly what their foreman lays out for them. These guys can do incredible work with conduit, wire pulling, making up MCCs, switchgear, all kinds of systems and equipment. They would be completely lost if tossed into a house or most TI work by themselves.
I’m not knocking their skills, I’ve seen some brilliant work done in a very short amount of time with very few people, tight schedules met and complicated systems turned on with no problems.
You will need to develop confidence and expect support from the shop you work for.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

"Researching" the contractor? Have you started yet? Your question would be best answered by the contractor himself. Typically union jobs are construction projects, not service calls. Meaning, when you take a call on the book, you're there till termination, you don't just leave, take a service call, then come back. As a rule, contractors don't like paying scale for driving around, to and from service work.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

joebanana said:


> "Researching" the contractor? Have you started yet? Your question would be best answered by the contractor himself. Typically union jobs are construction projects, not service calls. Meaning, when you take a call on the book, you're there till termination, you don't just leave, take a service call, then come back. As a rule, contractors don't like paying scale for driving around, to and from service work.


I don't get this comment.
Our hall routinely has calls for "small service work" I believe its a heads up for those that don't want the responsibility or the dedication it takes for that kind of work. I will say that when I was doing service work, I made more consistent money than any of the other electricians in that shop including foreman and even a GF or two. There is always an opportunity for overtime, very little downtime and if a project needs someone with a full truck of tools and ladders ready to work, they can send a service truck. For me, it was a good experience. Some people just want to show up with a lunchbox and their handtools and give 8 for 8. I don't knock that, its the long play, work model. 
If you want to push yourself, get to be a well-rounded electrician, don't mind working on something different every day, take the challenge. If you want to be on a big job with dozens of other electricians and enjoy the socialization, stay on the construction side.


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## ZacharyBob (May 3, 2020)

Easy said:


> Service work can be quite challenging and it depends on what your are servicing.* Do you plan on staying with the contractor for the long hall?
> Does the contractor have a big crew?* Lot's of things to consider but really it can be good or bad it really depends on the person you work for.
> *Is the work commercial, residential or industrial? Do you like to travel and spend time driving to locations?*
> 
> ...


I'd like to stay with one contractor for as long as possible, of course life happens and people change but I'm my circumstances involve being an hour away from the hall, shop and training facility which is not something I intend to change. (Getting married in June, hoping to start a family shortly after and we live in a very very small town about a block from the elementary school.) The significance of all that of course being that I don't have an abundance of options "out here" and also that I'm looking to provide a good stable environment for my prospective family.

We're right on the CA/OR state line, I'm on the rural CA side, the contractor is on the metro OR side. From what I've gathered he's a medium sized shop and he does Resi, Commercial, Industrial and Healthcare. I believe there's a healthy mix of all the above as the area is rather under served by electricians. I don't believe there's any great deal of restaurant service work but I certainly understand the hesitation to get stuck in that (most often filthy and cobbled together) environment.

I don't mind driving as it's kind of a given with my arrangement, however it is a priority to come home every night.

As for signing on Book 1, maybe I've misconstrued how things work, this will be my first union opportunity. I was under the impression that I'm basically expected to be on Book 1 all the times when not on a long term project? Given that I was trying to anticipate how service work fit in. Maybe I've misunderstood some part of it though?



blueheels2 said:


> I worked for a union contractor that had a small service department. Most of our service work was for Publix and we would fill in on our industrial work to make 40 hours.
> 
> Things were pretty much as described above. You are fine if you take a call to the shop and not a specific job. Then you don’t have to drag up when a job ends. Some of them complain and act like foreman pay isn’t necessary for service but they are full of it. *Definitely a job that is filled mostly by guys who don’t want to travel and don’t want to job hop. Otherwise known as shop rockets.* And imo that’s not derogatory. I was a shop rocket for 6 years


I would say this is a fairly accurate description for what I'm looking for given the desire to start a family soon. Overall I don't idle well and prefer to be both challenged and busy as an average week goes. I do want to come home every night, but I also would not mind some OT given that I'm in my late 20's and feel like now is the time to get in the hours while I can.



Southeast Power said:


> I was very fortunate to be offered a service truck when I was a young journeyman. It was the best learning experience of my career.
> *It wasn’t until later in my career I found out that most electricians really don’t know that much about how things work.* Most people are on very large jobs and only know how to do exactly what their foreman lays out for them. These guys can do incredible work with conduit, wire pulling, making up MCCs, switchgear, all kinds of systems and equipment. They would be completely lost if tossed into a house or most TI work by themselves.
> I’m not knocking their skills, I’ve seen some brilliant work done in a very short amount of time with very few people, tight schedules met and complicated systems turned on with no problems.
> You will need to develop confidence and expect support from the shop you work for.


I'm hopeful that this position will be conducive to becoming a well rounded electrician. I'm joining the union @ 3rd period with roughly 2500 hours and a little less than 2 years of schooling. I believe I take instruction well but I'd much prefer the opportunity to challenge myself as opposed to gluing together my 36,010th foot of 4" conduit. 



joebanana said:


> "Researching" the contractor? Have you started yet? Your question would be best answered by the contractor himself. Typically union jobs are construction projects, not service calls. Meaning, when you take a call on the book, you're there till termination, you don't just leave, take a service call, then come back. As a rule, contractors don't like paying scale for driving around, to and from service work.


No I haven't started yet, I literally accepted the position yesterday and the only interaction I've had with my contractor is within the interview panel. And my impression of the union is mostly similar to what you've described with respect to large scale projects, however this contractors website reads very differently and his reviews reflect a large amount of service work. Admittedly I'd not be excited, likely not even willing to spend 3-4 hours in a service truck unpaid. 



Southeast Power said:


> I don't get this comment.
> Our hall routinely has calls for "small service work" I believe its a heads up for those that don't want the responsibility or the dedication it takes for that kind of work. I will say that when I was doing service work, I made more consistent money than any of the other electricians in that shop including foreman and even a GF or two. There is always an opportunity for overtime, very little downtime and if a project needs someone with a full truck of tools and ladders ready to work, they can send a service truck. For me, it was a good experience. Some people just want to show up with a lunchbox and their handtools and give 8 for 8. I don't knock that, its the long play, work model.
> If you want to push yourself, get to be a well-rounded electrician, don't mind working on something different every day, take the challenge. If you want to be on a big job with dozens of other electricians and enjoy the socialization, stay on the construction side.


I'd like to get my 40 and then some doing a large variety of work, working with a private contractor that's essentially what I've been doing and it does feel like my knowledge base for a 2nd year is pretty well rounded. 


Thanks for all the responses guys, I really do appreciate it. 

I might also add this question; What does the process of switching contractors within your union hall normally look like? This job offer sounds much more similar to what I'm doing now vs the idea I had in my head of the way the union normally works.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I truly believe that a good variety of service work will build your knowledge beyond what you would be doing construction. Construction work keeps you up to date with code and allows you to design systems but it can also become repetitive in some cases. Service work on the other hand could potentially expose you to many new things and enhance your trouble shooting skills. It all depends on what the contractor services. The best part of service work is meeting new people and that could potentially lead to more opportunities. The good thing is that you would be working for a union shop and have the protection and support they provide. As noted above by Southwest Power you most likely will be working solo and might miss working with other electricians. I guess it's kind of a toss up as to what would be better but you wont know until you give it a go. Good luck to you as you start a new family. You live in a beautiful part of California and there is a lot to see as you go to work each day.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

I agree that service work will expose you to more electrical experiences than construction work alone. The only part about service work that I wouldn't like is the paperwork. I've always hated paperwork. I think I could fight through it for a good service job.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

Contractor I worked for didnt expect me to work unpaid. But I better be able to bill for the hours I was turning in. In my experience their service rates were too cheap. Somewhere around 75/hr. But Publix had them beat down I guess.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Ive never been in the Union, but let me pass on a little encouragement to you my man: 

TAKE THE JOB! You’ll see more stuff in 1 year of service work than you will 3 years on construction sites. Guaranteed! This will teach you so much is not even funny!

I personally don’t enjoy troubleshooting very much, but I learned it to get away from construction work. And it’s given me the opportunity to find what i really enjoy the most in this trade - small jobs. Which will probably be at least 1/2 of what you do. Adding circuits here, changing out lights there, replacing panels, sign circuits, machine disconnects.....the list goes on and on. Service work also has less highs and lows than construction does and OT is usually available pretty regularly.

The only thing about construction work that I like better is knowing what time your getting off work each day. With service calls, you usually work from 8am till whenever pm.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I always hated the paperwork also. I never filled it out before I left one job on the way to the next, which led me to doing it when I got back to the shop. Most of the time I was getting back to the shop at quitting time or a little later. We never had the customers sign for anything, I never knew what they charged. I just filled out the time and material and stretched out the description of work, so it looked like they got their money’s worth and paid the bill when it came in the mai

I had to not worry about what time I got back to the shop and just realize that “sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you”. If I worried about it, it would just make me sick. Most of the time eating lunch on the way to the supply house or the next job. For me it was always a forty hour week. My daily jobs always equaled eight hours at the end of the day. Sometimes hitting the rich costumers with an extra half hour while giving it to the poorer customers, which by the way were more likely to give you five bucks for coffee while the rich customers gave you nothing and make you use an extension ladder to get to the reno instead of going through the house.

I wouldn’t change any of it though. Probably made me who I am today. I was 21 when I got in the local. I had five years experience. I started with a father and son company between junior and senior year of Vo-Tech, and then worked it into half days senior year. The first job the hall sent me to, was a company that had a service division. I was under the bosses and project managers noses every day. Became a face. Some of the work was for people they knew personally. Thirty three years later I’m still there, doing the occasional service call.

Go for it.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

ZacharyBob said:


> 'm hopeful that this position will be conducive to becoming a well rounded electrician. I'm joining the union @ 3rd period with roughly 2500 hours and a little less than 2 years of schooling. I believe I take instruction well but I'd much prefer the opportunity to challenge myself as opposed to gluing together my 36,010th foot of 4" conduit.


When you say “Book 1” in an earlier post, that is for Journeymen. Apprentices sign a different book. You only sign a book when you are out of work. If you are working for this company you will not be on a “book”.

One thing you might have to worry about, depending on the locals jurisdiction, is signing in with another local if you are working in their territory. I don’t know how big or small CA territories are. If it’s a day or two job, they may not care? If it’s one man for a week, they may not care? But it is your responsibility, not your employers. I don’t want to scare you, but you would get brought up on charges, not your employer. Service work is a different animal, but if you were going to do a bank let’s say, you have to cover your ass. Your employer already knows this and probably has you cleared. Ask him/her first. The hall just wants to know who’s coming and going and they want the dues money going to them. Pension and annuity has a reciprocal agreement that needs to be signed so that your money goes back to your hall in your account. Around here they used to come out and meet you on the job, (and check it out), so you didn’t need to waste time going to their hall. Now with all the piss tests, you probably have to go there? The piss test is good for the year and is sometimes reciprocal. 

You probably won’t run into this, but it’s the only thing I can think of, when you mention having to sign books working for the same company. It’s not necessarily a book. The other thing is that apprentices in my local don’t travel to other locals. They also don’t work without a journeymen. CE/CW is a different story. They still go through the same apprenticeship in the end, but aren’t treated as apprentices because they have more experience. Here, when a CE/CW changes over, he does the last three years as an apprentice. Kinda weird that a guy could be on his own or running work, but when he changes over, goes back to being an apprentice. I guess no system is perfect.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

It's been quite a few years since I worked out of the local.
Back in the early 90's if you were on the book and took a job that lasted 80 hours or less you retained your spot on the book.
I spent my entire apprenticeship plus a year with the same contractor.
The contractor had new construction, remodel work and service truck work, all commercial type jobs.
As soon as I turned out they took me off the construction jobs, gave me a van, and sent me on service calls and small one man projects. 
While still an apprentice I would occasionally ride with the service truck guys to help pull wire or dig ditches.

I am still not clear on what the OP is asking.
When I took a call to a contractor there was no telling what type of electrical work you were going to be doing, about all you knew was it was commercial work, new, remodel, or service.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Service is not for everyone. Totally different kind of job than construction. Most often it is long term as the company needs to invest in the employees, specialized training like fire alarm and security clearances, uniforms etc 

Pretty much all my experience was in service. Longest call I had was 13 yrs.

Good luck.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I have been in the trade 50+ years 42 of that is service, in my experience, the most knowledgable electricians with the widest range of experience are service electricians. I prefer service work and felt that construction was boring and most of construction work is assembly line work.


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