# A couple questions from an apprentice regarding first cordless drill



## mightyduck8 (Jan 24, 2014)

Hey fellas,

I am starting my apprenticeship next week and the company is supplying all my tools except for a cordless drill, which I got. I grabbed an 18v dewalt with the nickel hydride battery, was this a good choice for a first drill? 

Also I need to grab some drill bits, what am I going to need starting out? Any help is appreciated. :thumbup:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

You dont have to supply drills and driver bits theyre a consumable but Id grab a 6" #2 phillips and a #2 robbie if your in Canada. 

I invested in a decent drill index, spade bit index and holesaw kit and I replace what is worn out on the company jobs.

Irwin make a good pouch for spadebits but I mostly use 25mm as its the legal size for drilling through structural 90x45 timber. 

I like the metal drill indexes that go up to 1/2".


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Read all about the battery.

Don't leave your battery drill over night in tool box it will wear down the chargable aspects of the battery in this weather nor in the car over night!

If building is heated then your good!

WELCOME TO THE TRADE and this Forum!


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## Wpgshocker (Jan 25, 2013)

Don't forget an Impact driver, more valuable than a drill at times!

You can pick up a black oxide or titanium bit set for under $40.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Dont forget when you drill pressure will get you further than high speed.


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## Electrical Student (Jun 6, 2011)

Chewy is right, your company should supply bits. You will find out rather quickly how mutch you are going to have to spend to keep decent bits for each aspect of your job. A decent uni-bit can be 50 to 80 bucks.
However as far as a drill choice, absolutely, Dewalt makes a great product. Logging on to this forum to get other opinions is another good tactic. Fallow the manufacturer guidelines in regard to charging, using and storing your tools. Make sure you send in any warranty information that is in the box.They will not honer it otherwise. Its nice to see new guys showing up with what they need. It shows where their head is at.
As far as bits... I usually grab a Dewalt sleve type bit holder and a case of number 2 tips. The sleve will slide over the screw to help guide it when in tight spots.
one #1 and 1#2 flat head or standard tips.
a case of small metal bits. Usually use for pilot holes for a uni or punch.
a socket adapter. 
A uni if not supplied.
a few wood bits 
After a few days you will know what you need. You certainly dont want to spend your money on junk that will sit at the bottem of your bag. So just check out what your j.man is using the most often and grab a few things on payday. Check in here if you dont understand something. Their is a lot of experience on this forum. Good luck bro.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

As soon as you can afford it, get a real cordless drill. Don't get caught with a carpenter's drill on an electrical job!!:no::no:


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## mightyduck8 (Jan 24, 2014)

wendon said:


> As soon as you can afford it, get a real cordless drill. Don't get caught with a carpenter's drill on an electrical job!!:no::no:


well is it worth returning my "not real" drill their boss? What is an example of an "electricians drill"


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

mightyduck8 said:


> well is it worth returning my "not real" drill their boss? What is an example of an "electricians drill"


 Your drill will work fine, put your name on it so anyone using it will know who it belongs to. After you work around many other electricians, you will see what works and what doesn't. I still use Dewalts.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

mightyduck8 said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I am starting my apprenticeship next week and the company is supplying all my tools except for a cordless drill, which I got. I grabbed an 18v dewalt with the nickel hydride battery, was this a good choice for a first drill?
> 
> Also I need to grab some drill bits, what am I going to need starting out? Any help is appreciated. :thumbup:


...it's a shame you have to supply your own drill, whats next benders?


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

360max said:


> ...it's a shame you have to supply your own drill, whats next benders?


my old boss wanted us to have are own...even extension cords.


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## mightyduck8 (Jan 24, 2014)

360max said:


> ...it's a shame you have to supply your own drill, whats next benders?


maybe I will understand this joke once I get started :laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Get a 12V Fuel drill/driver. Next up, buy a 12V impact.

If the employer wants an apprentice to be ripping holes through wood all day, he can supply the drill.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

the-apprentice said:


> my old boss wanted us to have are own...even extension cords.





mightyduck8 said:


> maybe I will understand this joke once I get started :laughing:


I'd have no problem suppling my own drill or hand bender, but each tool is a dollar an hour raise.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

mightyduck8 said:


> maybe I will understand this joke once I get started :laughing:


join the union and you will never have to understand this joke


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

When I started out I worked for non union and had to supply drills, benders, band saw, sawzall, punch kit, even gang box (unless I wanted to bring all the tools out to my truck on my own time). For that reason alone I could not imagine ever working on a non organized job site again. Especially if an employer doesn't replace your tools for wear and tear.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Whatever you go with, you are going to want everything to have the same battery (impact, sawzemall, circular and fleshlight). I like having a drill with a 1/2" chuck. It's invaluable to drill 1-2 holes without stretching a cord.


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

five.five-six said:


> Whatever you go with, you are going to want everything to have the same battery (impact, sawzemall, circular and fleshlight). I like having a drill with a 1/2" chuck. It's invaluable to drill 1-2 holes without stretching a cord.


Flesh light Haha


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Skblay said:


> Flesh light Haha


You are going to have to learn to skim over my posts, paying too close attention to what I write can cause emotional damage.


I had no idea what a fleashlight was until a guy on my gun board posted a gun for sale and in the picture on his desk behind the gun were 2 fleshlights. I still have no idea why anyone would need 2 fleshlights


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

i bought a milwaukee hammer drill when i first started. cost me a bit of money. but ive got 4000 hours into my apprenticeship and its still going with the same batteries, ive recently replaced my old impact for an 18v fuel impact driver. my new employers rule is, if you break it on a job, go ahead and replace it. which is nice, because drill/impact bits start to add up in price


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

360max said:


> I'd have no problem suppling my own drill or hand bender, but each tool is a dollar an hour raise.


wow, so pay bumps for having tools, whether you know what your doing or not.....completely different worlds with the non-union shops. so if I roll up with my own gamebox and truck, does that make me general foreman too?


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

good friend of mine is a 5th term plumber, and they dont even require there guys to have hand tools, they provide it all


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

When it comes to cordless tools dewalt makes great tool bags! Not my joke but funny and true.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

backstay said:


> Your drill will work fine, put your name on it so anyone using it will know who it belongs to. After you work around many other electricians, you will see what works and what doesn't. I still use Dewalts.


Just paint it red and you'll be okay!!:laughing:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

the-apprentice said:


> good friend of mine is a 5th term plumber, and they dont even require there guys to have hand tools, they provide it all


Wow! A pipe wrench and a channel locks of their own??? Where do I sign up?


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

the-apprentice said:


> good friend of mine is a 5th term plumber, and they dont even require there guys to have hand tools, they provide it all


Do they include something to clean all the bits of human **** from under his fingernails?


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## blazefc (Jan 19, 2014)

I currently have the Milwuakee M18 combo pack, 2697-22, both of them have been pretty good so far the M18 battery has a long battery run time. The impact has taken falls, it still works great. Makita is also a good drill make, just don't get caught with Ryobi.:lol: You should only be providing driving bits, drill bits should be provided, well at least at my company. For bits, Milwuakee is your best bet. You should write your name on your drill/s and battery.


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## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

wendon said:


> Wow! A pipe wrench and a channel locks of their own??? Where do I sign up?


lol i know eh, unreal


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## samc (Oct 19, 2013)

Its a sad world when you have to supply your own drill. I'm not an aprentice but my company supplies all hiltis. 

As for bits just start with a phillips #2 and take it from there. I personally use that, nut driver bits, spade, unibits and sometimes extensions. But what I do might differ from what you might be doing on the job. 

Welcome to the trade and here's a tip, never leave your batteries out of sight and label everything. I mean scratch your name into it not just sharpie.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

I have corded and cordless drills in the trucks for people to use. Some guys like to use their own for day to day, I don't replace them. If they need a drill it's in the truck. I'm not replacing their fancy crap when a decent drill will do the job. My 2 cents. All my stuff is fairly new and plenty of good batteries. Range from 12v -18v lith ion. 

The op may not know if drills are on site to use yet...?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

davis9 said:


> I have corded and cordless drills in the trucks for people to use. Some guys like to use their own for day to day, I don't replace them. If they need a drill it's in the truck. I'm not replacing their fancy crap when a decent drill will do the job. My 2 cents. All my stuff is fairly new and plenty of good batteries. Range from 12v -18v lith ion.
> 
> The op may not know if drills are on site to use yet...?


Exactly. I expect an apprentice to have a 12V drill/driver and that's for use as a driver more than a drill. I don't expect him to supply a drill for drilling holes all day.


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## EB Electric (Feb 8, 2013)

I picked myself up the m18 fuel impact and hammer drill/driver xc kit. It's awesome. The boss does not pay for my power tools, he says just use the journeyman's which are reimbursed the cost of their power tools. For me the efficiency having my own impact and drill is worth the cost out of pocket. Paid for itself in the first week!


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

EB Electric said:


> I picked myself up the m18 fuel impact and hammer drill/driver xc kit. It's awesome. The boss does not pay for my power tools, he says just use the journeyman's which are reimbursed the cost of their power tools. For me the efficiency having my own impact and drill is worth the cost out of pocket. Paid for itself in the first week!


Which is why your boss should pay for it.. You say it paid for itself but it diddnt because you got paid the same and your boss made more money from production. Not only that but you now set a standard and the other apprentices at your company, and they are going to be looked down on because they don't have one and maybe don't have enough money to provide one.


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

It was supposed to say for the other apprentices not and

I apologize


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## delirious (Jan 26, 2014)

Somehow I ended up with the majority of the Bosch 18v and all of the 12v lines. 
99% of the time the only thing I ever use is the 12v impact, even for light drilling tasks (it spins much faster than a drill).

I am partial to Bosch but, use whatever works and doesn't break the bank.

But you might consider eventually upgrading to an LI-Ion tool set, lighter more power lasts longer.... yada yada.


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

delirious said:


> Somehow I ended up with the majority of the Bosch 18v and all of the 12v lines.
> 99% of the time the only thing I ever use is the 12v impact, even for light drilling tasks (it spins much faster than a drill).
> 
> I am partial to Bosch but, use whatever works and doesn't break the bank.
> ...


I'm a big fan of Bosch also; my next drill be from them. Only thing i won't buy from them is their sawzall. Right now I have a craftsman li-ion my wife got me for Xmas a year ago (the one with the changeable heads); thought I was going to burn it up within a month or 2, but it has been good to me. Taken some nasty falls on a commercial site I was on, saves space with the changeable drill/impact heads, got some balls to it too surprisingly (Beats a royobi or ridgid any day), and it's pretty cheap.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

delirious said:


> Somehow I ended up with the majority of the Bosch 18v and all of the 12v lines.
> 99% of the time the only thing I ever use is the 12v impact, even for light drilling tasks (it spins much faster than a drill).
> 
> I am partial to Bosch but, use whatever works and doesn't break the bank.
> ...


I have a bosch 18v set I picked up about 4 years ago I am very happy with but with 1 caveat. I have had trouble finding replacement batteries or tools when I have broken or lost them. my next set, and i am due every 5 years, will probably be something that I can get parts and replacements at the local home improvement chains.


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## SamoanThor (Oct 18, 2013)

Well I maintain that if you aren't buying tools that will make you a more efficient worker, regardless of reimbursement, you're doing it wrong anyways. Get over the idea that your boss owes you more than giving you a job and invest in yourself. Besides, if you leave, those tools are 100% yours.


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## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

mightyduck8 said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I am starting my apprenticeship next week and the company is supplying all my tools except for a cordless drill, which I got. I grabbed an 18v dewalt with the nickel hydride battery, was this a good choice for a first drill?
> 
> Also I need to grab some drill bits, what am I going to need starting out? Any help is appreciated. :thumbup:


http://www.grainger.com/product/MILWAUKEE-Drill-Bit-Set-10Z784 One of those will cover most of what you need.

Despite what some may say, that Dewalt isn't a bad choice. Spare parts are everywhere as well as batteries. If it spins, it works. Hell, I started out with a Craftsman 19.2V. :laughing:

Welcome to the trade and forum. :thumbsup:


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## EB Electric (Feb 8, 2013)

Skblay said:


> Which is why your boss should pay for it.. You say it paid for itself but it diddnt because you got paid the same and your boss made more money from production. Not only that but you now set a standard and the other apprentices at your company, and they are going to be looked down on because they don't have one and maybe don't have enough money to provide one.


If I am willing to invest in a drill and impact driver and I can get the same amount of work done at the same level of quality in less time than so be it. I don't work for the ibew or a huge union, it's not like there are 100 apprentices where I work for, I don't have a standardized tool list and nobody cares what each person has or doesn't have. I have a lot more tools then most of the other apprentices and the journeyman appreciate and have recognized it. If that gets me onto the job site and the other apprentice sweeps the shop for the day so be it. In my experience though there is a lot more to it than the sum of tools that make someone excel.


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

That's exactly what I'm getting at your trying to have an upper hand by supplying more tools, (I.e. Your not sweeping or your jw's like it) all I was really trying to say is that the drill did not pay for itself, it will indeed pay for itself when you have your Jw card and your doing side work. The fuels are awesome I got them a few months ago, best drill/impact on the market..
I'm not trying to bring you down, I'm just trying to show you both sides of the argument. Good luck


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## halfamp (Jul 16, 2012)

I've been to shops where they provide tools and shops that don't. You learn what you like. I'm working for a shop now that provides 18v dewalt drills that I use for heavier drilling out cans or doors and my own m12 fuel for everything else. 

Theres guys here who insist on using the seven pound 18v dewalt the shop gave them for screwing in devices and stuff, I've learned over the years that my arms and wrists appreciate not being forced to bear that weight all the time unless no other tool is applicable.

That alone is worth the price tag. And if I'm more productive as well, hell, the other guys have the choice too. Like said above, you own those tools whether you're working for shop A, B, or C. Make sure you buy ones you like. Maybe wait until you've tried a variety of tools and pick the one best suited to your preferences. Like said before as well, keep all your power tools under one battery as well.


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## Enanosky44 (Jul 27, 2013)

The world have changed....even the labor is cheaper 
I heard people said their company provide everything.... My bother works for a company where they provide power tools except the personal drill and hands tools.... They have knockout punch.... And all kind of things to make wholes they asked him for the basic holesaws. Wrenches he is only in this field like 2 yrs... 
In my case I been 3 but in my company they only ask for hand tools and drill.... They only provide few things and you have to make miracles.... It's sad for a company that is getting $$ like crazy.


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## SamoanThor (Oct 18, 2013)

Ok, or..... You get tools that make you more effective, bust your ass 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and get four raises and a company truck in six months. Paid for itself just in gas.


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## ilikepez (Mar 24, 2011)

My company provides all power tools, but I end up using mine a lot because I don't like hunting around for them when I need them and mine are better quality. They also seem to get trashed by whatever joker was using them last. However my boss will replace any tool I break or wear out on the job. 

Drill indexes, knockouts, and large drills are all provided by the company.


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## SamoanThor (Oct 18, 2013)

Pretty similar to my company. The serious ones have tools and are quite accustomed to hearing 'hey, can I borrow your impact?'


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

SamoanThor said:


> Pretty similar to my company. The serious ones have tools and are quite accustomed to hearing 'hey, can I borrow your impact?'


And thats usually when I say no, but I know of a place that will give you one for a little bit of money.


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## adamv7010 (Mar 21, 2011)

five.five-six said:


> You are going to have to learn to skim over my posts, paying too close attention to what I write can cause emotional damage.
> 
> 
> I had no idea what a fleashlight was until a guy on my gun board posted a gun for sale and in the picture on his desk behind the gun were 2 fleshlights. I still have no idea why anyone would need 2 fleshlights


Solo three some. 



sent while driving recklessly


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

SamoanThor said:


> Well I maintain that if you aren't buying tools that will make you a more efficient worker, regardless of reimbursement, you're doing it wrong anyways. Get over the idea that your boss owes you more than giving you a job and invest in yourself. Besides, if you leave, those tools are 100% yours.


I'm going to maintain that its even better to not have to buy your own power tools. the company should provide them as that is part of the job installation. my drill is sitting at home where it should be and will be 100% mine always and not worn out from the company use. if the company wants me to be more efficient then they make sure we have what we need. it works great on our side. I do not understand the logic on the "otherside". you guys are selling yourselves short.


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## samc (Oct 19, 2013)

fistofbolts said:


> I'm going to maintain that its even better to not have to buy your own power tools. the company should provide them as that is part of the job installation. my drill is sitting at home where it should be and will be 100% mine always and not worn out from the company use. if the company wants me to be more efficient then they make sure we have what we need. it works great on our side. I do not understand the logic on the "otherside". you guys are selling yourselves short.


I agree power tools should be provided by the company. If a drill then what, hammer drill, sawzall... core drill? Got to end that nonsense somewhere. But all hand tools should be bought by the employee. Sure things cost alot of money but invest into your own trade. And quite honestly it becomes a hobby, so take pride in what you do.


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## Techne (Feb 9, 2013)

fistofbolts said:


> I'm going to maintain that its even better to not have to buy your own power tools. the company should provide them as that is part of the job installation. my drill is sitting at home where it should be and will be 100% mine always and not worn out from the company use. if the company wants me to be more efficient then they make sure we have what we need. it works great on our side. I do not understand the logic on the "otherside". you guys are selling yourselves short.


It's a sharp stab in the pocket for the unfortunate apprentice when realizing that they are not only expected to wear out their own drill and impact making money for their employer, but also supply saws (sawzall/bandsaw/recip), lights, and the required consumables (auger/spade bits, blades, bits, nutsetters) for them as well. 

The old line of "we found that guys were abusing our tools too much, so we made it policy for them to supply their own" wears pretty thin for a guy on 40-50% J-man wages. It is far cheaper and far more efficient to provide tooling within a culture of respect for the job and accountability for the employee, whether the employee is green or very well-seasoned. 

All that said, your average heavy duty mechanic probably has more sunk costs in air tools alone than many small electrical contractors have in tools for their entire outfit.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

360max said:


> join the union and you will never have to understand this joke


No you'll just be the punch line of many more instead.


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

samc said:


> I agree power tools should be provided by the company. If a drill then what, hammer drill, sawzall... core drill? Got to end that nonsense somewhere. But all hand tools should be bought by the employee. Sure things cost alot of money but invest into your own trade. And quite honestly it becomes a hobby, so take pride in what you do.


I bring my core drill and hyd ko to jobs


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## Nick0danger (Aug 19, 2012)

99cents said:


> Get a 12V Fuel drill/driver. Next up, buy a 12V impact.
> 
> If the employer wants an apprentice to be ripping holes through wood all day, he can supply the drill.


Most companies specify 18V tools. When i worked for flint they specifed brand (pick any major brand) and 18V but said if something broke, they would replace or repair, and they did step up and get them fixed. It was cheaper than all the drills they where going though when they provided them.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

bml215 said:


> I bring my core drill and hyd ko to jobs


wow, I just dont know


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## flatlander (Feb 6, 2014)

bml215 said:


> I bring my core drill and hyd ko to jobs


I hope you're kidding!


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

flatlander said:


> I hope you're kidding!


No I'm not. If you give me a hole saw to cut anything more then 2 pull boxes I'm grabbing my ko kit. If you say cut that 3" pipe with a hack saw or chop saw i'm going to laugh, and grab my band saw. If you hand me a high speed grinder with a core bit on it, I'm grabbing my rotohammer designed to core drill. If you hand me a $100 Bosch to drill 300 holes through concrete, I'm grabbing my big boy Bosch. 

I bought these tools for when I go out on my own, but If you can supply me with the proper tools I'm not going to break my back over it.


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## Techne (Feb 9, 2013)

bml215 said:


> No I'm not. If you give me a hole saw to cut anything more then 2 pull boxes I'm grabbing my ko kit. If you say cut that 3" pipe with a hack saw or chop saw i'm going to laugh, and grab my band saw. If you hand me a high speed grinder with a core bit on it, I'm grabbing my rotohammer designed to core drill. If you hand me a $100 Bosch to drill 300 holes through concrete, I'm grabbing my big boy Bosch.
> 
> I bought these tools for when I go out on my own, but If you can supply me with the proper tools I'm not going to break my back over it.



Hat's off to you for having the right-tool-for-the-right job attitude. All too often workmanship suffers for not having the proper tooling at hand.

But for Pete's sake man, unless you have a really solid arrangement with your employer - an equity stake or something - or are planning to go out on your own in like ... a week, why are you not pulling out the _company's_ KO set, or the _company's _core drill, or the _company's _bulldog?

What's the next step? Will you start supplying grounding plates? Tuggers for tough pulls? A mini hoe for trench work?


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

therearenoroadshere said:


> Hat's off to you for having the right-tool-for-the-right job attitude. All too often workmanship suffers for not having the proper tooling at hand.
> 
> But for Pete's sake man, unless you have a really solid arrangement with your employer - an equity stake or something - or are planning to go out on your own in like ... a week, why are you not pulling out the company's KO set, or the company's core drill, or the company's bulldog?
> 
> What's the next step? Will you start supplying grounding plates? Tuggers for tough pulls? A mini hoe for trench work?


yeah really, u may as well have your own service truck and do your own thing. If I dont have the proper company tool for the job, I request it from the foreman or gf. if I dont get it. I am taking my sweet time


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

therearenoroadshere said:


> Hat's off to you for having the right-tool-for-the-right job attitude. All too often workmanship suffers for not having the proper tooling at hand.
> 
> But for Pete's sake man, unless you have a really solid arrangement with your employer - an equity stake or something - or are planning to go out on your own in like ... a week, why are you not pulling out the company's KO set, or the company's core drill, or the company's bulldog?
> 
> What's the next step? Will you start supplying grounding plates? Tuggers for tough pulls? A mini hoe for trench work?


Company didn't have those items which is why they handed me the hole saw, the grinder with a core bit, the chop saw which left the biggest burrs I have ever seen (like heat treated razor blades) or told to use a hacksaw to cut the 3" ridgit mast. 

I can't get my license yet so I'm not going out my own anytime soon. Usually I get paid more because of them so I feel it evens out because I don't always use those tools. I usually use their tools unless they don't have em or there is a line (I hate to wait)


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## bmailman20 (Jan 4, 2013)

chewy said:


> I mostly use 25mm as its the legal size for drilling through structural 90x45 timber.


How does that translate to 'Merican? A 1" bit for a 2x4?


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

bmailman20 said:


> How does that translate to 'Merican? A 1" bit for a 2x4?


1" dead center you don't need a nail plate, anything more you do. No idea about max drill hole allowed though.


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

Well I hope when you realize that when your spending 50% of your pay check to make your boss 100% of the profit that at the end of the day we go to work to make money and owning tools does not make you an electrician, being mechanical, knowledge and work ethic is what makes you an electrician.


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

Skblay said:


> Well I hope when you realize that when your spending 50% of your pay check to make your boss 100% of the profit that at the end of the day we go to work to make money and owning tools does not make you an electrician, being mechanical, knowledge and work ethic is what makes you an electrician.


One day when I step out on my own and I have 100% of the tools already, it's going to be 50% less stressful and expensive. 

Owning tools makes you a "well equipped electrician", and not a hack with a bucket of sh!t.

And one other thing, I write my tools off in my taxes so I get all that money back anyway.


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

Well that's illegal because you are not a business owner and they are not required as you said your co workers don't have them and your boss tells you to do it one way and you volunteer to supply your own tools. And I am not downing you buying your own tools I have all my own tools from a Ko set - hilti as well but I use them to make me money not my boss. All I'm saying is by supplying all your tools to a company that does not require it is undermining everybody that works at your company. Alot of you non union guys constantly back stab each other instead of helping each other and it all starts with little things like this.


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

Skblay said:


> Well that's illegal because you are not a business owner and they are not required as you said your co workers don't have them and your boss tells you to do it one way and you volunteer to supply your own tools. And I am not downing you buying your own tools I have all my own tools from a Ko set - hilti as well but I use them to make me money not my boss. All I'm saying is by supplying all your tools to a company that does not require it is undermining everybody that works at your company. Alot of you non union guys constantly back stab each other instead of helping each other and it all starts with little things like this.


They were purchased to make me money not my boss. I work smarter; not harder so I do whip out my tools when need be. I don't see how I am backstabbing my coworkers. We are all glad to get the job done as fast as possible, and look good in front of the boss man. 

Never had a problem with my taxes before writing things like this off.. :shifty:


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Skblay said:


> Well that's illegal because you are not a business owner and they are not required as you said your co workers don't have them and your boss tells you to do it one way and you volunteer to supply your own tools. And I am not downing you buying your own tools I have all my own tools from a Ko set - hilti as well but I use them to make me money not my boss. All I'm saying is by supplying all your tools to a company that does not require it is undermining everybody that works at your company. Alot of you non union guys constantly back stab each other instead of helping each other and it all starts with little things like this.


Your undermining the entire industry by doing sidework no?


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## Next72969 (Dec 9, 2012)

chewy said:


> Your undermining the entire industry by doing sidework no?


 yes.


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

I am a master electrician with an LLC. How does that differ from any of the non union contractors? Seeing as how I am constantly under bid by non union multi employee companies, I would say no.


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## EB Electric (Feb 8, 2013)

Skblay said:


> All I'm saying is by supplying all your tools to a company that does not require it is undermining everybody that works at your company. Alot of you non union guys constantly back stab each other instead of helping each other and it all starts with little things like this.


How does supplying a few extra nice to have tools screw and undermine all my co workers? I get compliments from my journeyman if I bring out a tool they don't have that makes both of our jobs easier/quicker/more efficient :blink: I have never had any co-worker give me a hard time for using a tool that is above and beyond what I am expected to use. I guess I'm an a**hole though. And at the same time the other guys don't feel pressured to run out and have an equivalent tool. :no: From your logic if your boss said you are to have standard combination wrenches and someone has ratcheting wrenches that will help do the job easier are you going to give that guy a hard time about not following that 'little rule' and report him to the foreman?  The way you speak, you must be unionized... personally being a non union guy I have more important work to do then care if someone has "deviated" from the said tool list. I could care less if the other guy has a fancy tool that I don't, I make the same money as that guy and have equal opportunity to go out and get the same damn thing if I please.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

EB Electric said:


> How does supplying a few extra nice to have tools screw and undermine all my co workers? I get compliments from my journeyman if I bring out a tool they don't have that makes both of our jobs easier/quicker/more efficient :blink: I have never had any co-worker give me a hard time for using a tool that is above and beyond what I am expected to use. I guess I'm an a**hole though. And at the same time the other guys don't feel pressured to run out and have an equivalent tool. :no: From your logic if your boss said you are to have standard combination wrenches and someone has ratcheting wrenches that will help do the job easier are you going to give that guy a hard time about not following that 'little rule' and report him to the foreman?  The way you speak, you must be unionized... personally being a non union guy I have more important work to do then care if someone has "deviated" from the said tool list. I could care less if the other guy has a fancy tool that I don't, I make the same money as that guy and have equal opportunity to go out and get the same damn thing if I please.


1. it screws your coworkers in several ways: 1. encourages company to further not have enough power tools on hand.
2. encourages situations of a worker getting more work based on tools, instead of skill or knowledge.
3. can cause major disagreements or fights if someone wants to borrow or use personal tools, or if they end up broken.

2. it has nothing to do with union or non-union. its basic worker ethics. if you dont agree, thats fine. you dont know your history and its this kind of attitude that could make it happen again....

I really encourage you to spend some time and look at the past some. do some research on how construction was. and take a look at the trend of where its going again.


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

fistofbolts said:


> 1. it screws your coworkers in several ways: 1. encourages company to further not have enough power tools on hand.
> 2. encourages situations of a worker getting more work based on tools, instead of skill or knowledge.
> 3. can cause major disagreements or fights if someone wants to borrow or use personal tools, or if they end up broken.


1. How?

1. Employers are never going to have one of each tool for everybody there. 

2. It is more equipped to get the job done..

3. Take care of your own tools, and if johnny bare-minimum wants to use a nice rotohammer he can buy one. 

Do I think big corporate company's should supply this; yes. I however work with smaller companies, and I don't think its the same.


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## EB Electric (Feb 8, 2013)

fistofbolts said:


> 1. encourages company to further not have enough power tools on hand.
> 2. encourages situations of a worker getting more work based on tools, instead of skill or knowledge.
> 3. can cause major disagreements or fights if someone wants to borrow or use personal tools, or if they end up broken.


That sounds like an awful place to work  Where I work....When supervisors see employees all using a certain tool to make their job eaiser, almost always it is mentioned to management and within a month or so a few are bought by the company and provided for the employees. There is never going to be the newest and best for everyone but they try their best, they don't stop supplying drill bits just because a guy brings a drill index one day :no: I disagree with #2. I am not in a union shop where tasks are handed out or there is no calling list. Anyone who wants to work on a certain job has an equal chance to be a part of it. The boss does not decide who goes based on a picture of our tools, he teams up people who work well together mixing a good variety of skills such as communication, the technical skills, troubleshooting abilities etc. To say something like "Oh Richard has that new milwaukee sawzall there are lots of 2x4's to cut he gets to go" is absolutely ridiculous! Crap like that doesn't happen, and if it does the problem is not "richard having a new sawzall" its the individual who based his biased decision on that being unfair and taking advantage of the situation. 

As far as #3 goes, it's pretty simple. If you can't afford to replace it, you can't borrow it! I don't see any fights over power tools. Guess what, if I bought it and don't trust you with my stuff, that's your problem, not mine! If I can't trust the guys I work with then there are more problems then the tools.:whistling2:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Most shops, big and small, require a cordless drill and/or impact driver now. I have no issue with this because I'd rather use a nice drill I picked out myself and take care of, than some beat up piece of junk supplied by the shop. 

Furthermore, if I'm supplying my own cordless drill, absolutely, positively nobody is borrowing it unless I'm working right next to them and they only need it for a minute.


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

fistofbolts said:


> 1. it screws your coworkers in several ways: 1. encourages company to further not have enough power tools on hand.
> 2. encourages situations of a worker getting more work based on tools, instead of skill or knowledge.
> 3. can cause major disagreements or fights if someone wants to borrow or use personal tools, or if they end up broken.
> 
> ...


This is the propaganda they tell em while riding the bench so they don't leave :jester:


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

bml215 said:


> This is the propaganda they tell em while riding the bench so they don't leave :jester:


no its the truth, and another reason why our wages are continually driven down.


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## EB Electric (Feb 8, 2013)

fistofbolts said:


> no its the truth, and another reason why our wages are continually driven down.


Who are you talking about when you refer to "our wages" ? How do you know if my wages are driven down. They have been going up lately since you seem so concerned about others wages, but I have been buying more tools lately too :blink: How can that be!!


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

bml215 said:


> They were purchased to make me money not my boss. I work smarter; not harder so I do whip out my tools when need be. I don't see how I am backstabbing my coworkers. We are all glad to get the job done as fast as possible, and look good in front of the boss man. Never had a problem with my taxes before writing things like this off.. :shifty:


People with this attitude will never see it any other way. It blows my mind that people truly believe it's no problem to supply their own power tools for an employer


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Why supply any of your own hand tools? Its 2014, cordless drills should be on tool listsm


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

bml215 said:


> 1. How?
> 
> 1. Employers are never going to have one of each tool for everybody there.
> 
> ...


I aleady explained it quite clearly, u want to justify some b.s. go ahead. you are very wrong


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

chewy said:


> Why supply any of your own hand tools? Its 2014, cordless drills should be on tool listsm


no they should not, on what logic? take more out of your check so the company profits more?


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

It's 2014, robots should be doing this work.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

FrunkSlammer said:


> It's 2014, robots should be doing this work.


oh we have them! they are called apprentices


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

fistofbolts said:


> I aleady explained it quite clearly, u want to justify some b.s. go ahead. you are very wrong


Your opinion, and I have mine of you guys. In the end I would regret not buying the tools that I own.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

bml215 said:


> Your opinion, and I have mine of you guys. In the end I would regret not buying the tools that I own.


logic and reasoning only goes so far with a brick wall


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

fistofbolts said:


> logic and reasoning only goes so far with a brick wall


I feel you have yet to provide me with a good enough reason to say "hmmm maybe fistofpennies is right."


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

Bml.. Your an apprentice right? I understand that you are new at this but most people your talking to have been doing this longer then You've been alive. You have a lot to learn still and perhaps undermining fellow employees will be one of the things you learn. But more importantly I hope you learn even if you don't agree with master or Jw electricians at least take into consideration what they are trying to say. All the people on this board take the industry very serious or we wouldn't be on here on our own time.


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

Their not much but they are one thing, left at home!


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## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

Skblay said:


> Bml.. Your an apprentice right? I understand that you are new at this but most people your talking to have been doing this longer then You've been alive. You have a lot to learn still and perhaps undermining fellow employees will be one of the things you learn. But more importantly I hope you learn even if you don't agree with master or Jw electricians at least take into consideration what they are trying to say. All the people on this board take the industry very serious or we wouldn't be on here on our own time.


Nope, I'm a mechanic and supervisor. I do have a lot to learn; doesn't everyone. I have taken what you have said into consideration, and I still don't agree with you. I'm on this board also and take this career as serious as the next person. 

Our opinions don't match up, and going back and forth online isn't going to change anything. I will never agree with you, because every job I'm on its the IBEW JMan who shows up with just hand tools fired after a week or two. Its the other subs who bring the band saw, the hyd ko, ect that last. To be honest I rather work 8 months on a site then two weeks demanding you supply the tools and borrowing others. 

My boss does provide tools, I just own better ones. I refuse to spend 8 hours drilling holes I can have done in 2 hours with my tools. That's my personal choice. If my fellow employees don't like it then they can drill the holes with the chitty drill. They have no problem with it, and want to get off some of these sites just as fast as I. We all share the fame, and tools are already supplied so I fail to understand how I am undermining them.


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

Okay so your not even an apprentice.. and I've never waited for a minute for a tool, the contractors want production so they have all the tools readily available on the first day a job opens up. This is called electrician talk not electrical helper talk


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

bml215 said:


> Nope, I'm a mechanic and supervisor. I do have a lot to learn; doesn't everyone. I have taken what you have said into consideration, and I still don't agree with you. I'm on this board also and take this career as serious as the next person. Our opinions don't match up, and going back and forth online isn't going to change anything. I will never agree with you, because every job I'm on its the IBEW JMan who shows up with just hand tools fired after a week or two. Its the other subs who bring the band saw, the hyd ko, ect that last. To be honest I rather work 8 months on a site then two weeks demanding you supply the tools and borrowing others. My boss does provide tools, I just own better ones. I refuse to spend 8 hours drilling holes I can have done in 2 hours with my tools. That's my personal choice. If my fellow employees don't like it then they can drill the holes with the chitty drill. They have no problem with it, and want to get off some of these sites just as fast as I. We all share the fame, and tools are already supplied so I fail to understand how I am undermining them.


 undermining your coworkers is the least of it. It encourages the owner to continue being cheap and taking advantage of his employees. Saying you make more because you bring your own tools is a silly concept. What about the guy who has 10x more mechanical ability and electrical knowledge but realizes it's not his obligation to provide tools for a company? Should he make less than the over eager shop rocket who doesn't know much but has no problem with bringing in his personal power tools to make his boss more money? These are the same people who will use their personal vehicles to go to the sale house for material in the morning. If someone wants to be in business they should have the tools necessary for the employees they want to keep


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

1970's mentality stuck in a 2010's economy. 

It's the way the work force is going... you can't fight it by belittling people who know where the world is going and are adapting to it. No longer are companies hiring guys at 18 and keeping them to 65 with good pay, good bennies and a nice rolex watch send off. People float, people are working for themselves and soon we'll all just be our own business, not employees. We'll sell our business (ourselves) to other people who need our services. 

Charge accordingly. Some people are going to have a tough time with the future. It'll be capitalism in it's truest.


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## fistofbolts (Jan 25, 2014)

FrunkSlammer said:


> 1970's mentality stuck in a 2010's economy.
> 
> It's the way the work force is going... you can't fight it by belittling people who know where the world is going and are adapting to it. No longer are companies hiring guys at 18 and keeping them to 65 with good pay, good bennies and a nice rolex watch send off. People float, people are working for themselves and soon we'll all just be our own business, not employees. We'll sell our business (ourselves) to other people who need our services.
> 
> Charge accordingly. Some people are going to have a tough time with the future. It'll be capitalism in it's truest.


capitalism at its truest would mean you will receive walmart wages for your work


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## Skblay (May 15, 2013)

That may be the way the work force is at the company that you work for but not me and we don't have to work to 65 to get our watch just put in 25 good years. Not to mention I've been on jobs with 120 electricians and not one of us has tried to undermine each other, stuck to our tool lists and had the contractors supply all other tools and never waited in a line to use one. You guys enable your contractors to "change the industry" it does not have to be that way. Our contractors buy enough tools to keep everyone productive and build them into job cost. If say we could use another threader just tell them and they will have one there in a couple hours.


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## Wpgshocker (Jan 25, 2013)

FrunkSlammer said:


> 1970's mentality stuck in a 2010's economy. It's the way the work force is going... you can't fight it by belittling people who know where the world is going and are adapting to it. No longer are companies hiring guys at 18 and keeping them to 65 with good pay, good bennies and a nice rolex watch send off. People float, people are working for themselves and soon we'll all just be our own business, not employees. We'll sell our business (ourselves) to other people who need our services. Charge accordingly. Some people are going to have a tough time with the future. It'll be capitalism in it's truest.


Capitalism has nothing to do with you supplying tools for your employer. If you bid a job, you need to provide for the materials required, as well as labour. So does your employer. You get paid the same with or without you bringing your own extra tools. Your employer however, makes money when he does not need to supply tools.


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## EcHoMaN (Jan 31, 2014)

I bought these after one year working, and my boss's second drill set got taxed out of his work vehicle. It's alright I've got 4 properties in my family I help out with, so the more tools the better...I love the 3 speed, impact on low for plugs and switches! The hammer drill is quite heavy...

http://www.makita.ca/index2.php?event=tool&id=1338&catid=2









You become a man when you buy your own stuff  and then buy stuff for everyone else...


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