# 700.9 question



## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

I have a commercial restroom which has 6 can lights on normal power and one light on the generator backed emergency panel. I've been asked to install an occupancy sensor (wall switch type) to control all lights.

I've found a 2 pole dual circuit sensor that will work. 
http://sensorswitch.com/WiringDiagrams/WIRING3.pdf

Will I violate 700.9 if I bring the emergency circuit into the same switch / box as the normal power circuit? (I believe so)

Or is my only option to leave the emegency light on 24/7?



Anyone else ever have this dilemma?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Yes you violate 700.9(B) if you put them in the same box.

You will also be in violation if you install a standard occ sensor on a emergency circuit unless you add a relay that overrides the occ sensor when the power goes out.

Emergency lights are required to be on when the power is off regardless if the room is occupied or not. 

WattStopper has what you need and so do other manafacturers.

http://www.wattstopper.com/getdoc/1967/ELCUWhitepaper.pdf


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

I agree with the slow smoked BBQ if the light is a required EM.

I would like to add that most likely there is no code requirement for an emergency light to be installed in the restroom. It may seem like common sense to have an EM light in a restroom, but I highly doubt that it is required by the building code.

If the light is not a required EM light then it should not be installed on an EM circuit.

Chris


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

raider1 said:


> I agree with the slow smoked BBQ if the light is a required EM.
> 
> I would like to add that most likely there is no code requirement for an emergency light to be installed in the restroom. It may seem like common sense to have an EM light in a restroom, but I highly doubt that it is required by the building code.
> 
> ...


 

Chris, while I agree with you, the building codes are written in strangely vague wordings, just as the NEC, the wording says "entire egress path" so some inspectors will inlcude the bathroom in that path.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Chris, while I agree with you, the building codes are written in strangely vague wordings, just as the NEC, the wording says "entire egress path" so some inspectors will inlcude the bathroom in that path.



Pretty poor call if they do as I bet if you actually call a typical bathroom an 'egress' there will suddenly be a number of other violations created.


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## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

raider1 said:


> If the light is not a required EM light then it should not be installed on an EM circuit.
> 
> Chris



I don't understand what you mean by *should not*. Is there anything in the NEC that says this, or is it just something that's not standard practice ?


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Chris, while I agree with you, the building codes are written in strangely vague wordings, just as the NEC, the wording says "entire egress path" so some inspectors will inlcude the bathroom in that path.


I've had to put an emergency light or a bugeye in most public restrooms I seem to recall, maybe it was the engineers preference.

Putting one in the restroom just makes sense to me, it would be a big bummer to be sitting on the throne reading the paper and all of a sudden it goes black.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> I don't understand what you mean by *should not*. Is there anything in the NEC that says this, or is it just something that's not standard practice ?


It says it




> 700.1 Scope. The provisions of this article apply to the
> electrical safety of the installation, operation, and maintenance
> of emergency systems consisting of circuits and
> equipment intended to supply, distribute, and control electricity
> ...





> 700.9 Wiring, Emergency System.
> 
> (B) Wiring. Wiring of two or more emergency circuits
> supplied from the same source shall be permitted in the
> ...


Technically an electrician cannot just decide to add lights to the emergency system just because they or the customer feel it is a good idea.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Ima Hack said:


> I've had to put an emergency light or a bugeye in most public restrooms I seem to recall, maybe it was the engineers preference.
> 
> Putting one in the restroom just makes sense to me, it would be a big bummer to be sitting on the throne reading the paper and all of a sudden it goes black.


I have installed bug eyes in restrooms as well but that does not make the bug eye an emergency light in accordance with Article 700. A bug eye in a restroom would be an optional standby light.



mcclary's electrical said:


> Chris, while I agree with you, the building codes are written in strangely vague wordings, just as the NEC, the wording says "entire egress path" so some inspectors will inlcude the bathroom in that path.


That is for general illumination, emergency illumination is required for egress elements in spaces that require 2 or more exits. It would take a very large restroom to require 2 exits.



BBQ said:


> Pretty poor call if they do as I bet if you actually call a typical bathroom an 'egress' there will suddenly be a number of other violations created.


I agree 100%



bruce6670 said:


> I don't understand what you mean by *should not*. Is there anything in the NEC that says this, or is it just something that's not standard practice ?


As the BBQ pointed out only required emergency loads may be installed on an Article 700 emergency circuit.

Chris


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Technically an electrician cannot just decide to add lights to the emergency system just because they or the customer feel it is a good idea.


What if a customer is concerned about liability? 

If the system is designed to handle the load I would think they could have it however they want it as long as the minimum requirements are met.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Ima Hack said:


> What if a customer is concerned about liability?
> 
> If the system is designed to handle the load I would think they could have it however they want it as long as the minimum requirements are met.


Nope, you can't add non-emergency loads to an emergency system.

If you have extra capacity you can add a second transfer switch and create an optional power system in addition to the emergency system and use the same generator.

Chris


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Ima Hack said:


> What if a customer is concerned about liability?


They can add as many lights to a optional standby system as they want. This requires at the least separate circuits, panels and transfer switches from the emergency ones.



> If the system is designed to handle the load I would think they could have it however they want it as long as the minimum requirements are met.


Nope. No additional loads to emergency systems, the AHJ could but not the building owner.

The idea is to reduce the chance of a short circuit from taking out emergency circuits.

One of the best ways to prevent shorts is to limit the amount of wiring connected to the system. 


The buildings we do will typically have one generator that has two (or more) output breakers, one will supply the emergency transfer switch and emergency loads the other breaker will supply "Optional standby loads" via a separate transfer switch.


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## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

So once the emergency system is installed, you can never add to it without permission from the AHJ ? I'm not real familiar with emergency systems.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> So once the emergency system is installed, you can never add to it without permission from the AHJ ? I'm not real familiar with emergency systems.


If it is truly an Article 700 emergency system you cannot add anything to it that is not legally required and classed as emergency by municipal, state, federal, or other codes, or by any governmental agency having jurisdiction.

On the other hand if it is an Article 702 optional standby system you can add loads to it assuming the capacity is there.

If you open a generator panel and all the loads in it are thing like lights, fire alarms etc you are likely looking at a emergency panel


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## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

BBQ said:


> If it is truly an Article 700 emergency system you cannot add anything to it that is not legally required and classed as emergency by municipal, state, federal, or other codes, or by any governmental agency having jurisdiction.
> 
> On the other hand if it is an Article 702 optional standby system you can add loads to it assuming the capacity is there.
> 
> If you open a generator panel and all the loads in it are thing like lights, fire alarms etc you are likely looking at a emergency panel


Thanks. :thumbsup:


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