# adding a ground



## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

on old residential homes with no ground wire is it permited to just run a ground wire to each outlet? in this perticular house it would be fairly simple


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't know the actual code for that, Papa. I believe you can, but I don't know the specifics.

I've never done it because I figured if I am going to run a new wire to the outlets, why not just run romex?

That, or just forgo the ground and GFCI protect it.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

What does the NEC say? You know the drill. We don't spoonfeed here.


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## socket2ya (Oct 27, 2016)

I remember asking an inspector this same question. As I recall he said that the ground has to be contained within the same cable or raceway. Like Hack said, if you're going to the trouble of snaking a ground, it might as well be a piece of romex


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Looks like 250.130(C) will allow it.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

papaotis said:


> on old residential homes with no ground wire is it permited to just run a ground wire to each outlet? in this perticular house it would be fairly simple


Yes. You can even daisy chain them together. But it has to go to a real ground like the panel or grounding electrode conductor. None of that hillbilly cold water line muck.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> Yes. You can even daisy chain them together. But it has to go to a real ground like the panel or grounding electrode conductor. None of that hillbilly cold water line muck.


This is true, but just to clear the last part up, it can go to the water pipe as long as it's within 5' of it entering the house. It can't go to random water pipe anywhere in the house.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> This is true, but just to clear the last part up, it can go to the water pipe as long as it's within 5' of it entering the house. It can't go to random water pipe anywhere in the house.


And just to clear that up, the water line has to be a grounding electrode already connected to the service neutral.... which is why I just left that off. Too much trouble anyhow with running a seperate ground, then compound it with water line silliness...:no:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Papa .,, yes you can do that but Hackwork did bring up very good point there.,,

If you can snake in a single conductor easy then you should able run a new romex in there..


I know it was mention in NEC in Art 250 but specfic number I am not too sure where excatally. 

In older days it used to do that pretty common but AFAIK most inspectors kinda frown on that and I just dont do that route anymore.

*Edit;* Hackwork beat my timming on art number but he is correct 
Looks like 250.130(C) will allow it. this is one of few keywords you will find it .


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

As of NEC 2014 you can borrow a ground from a different circuit originating in the same enclosure: 



National Electrical Code 2014 said:


> Article 250 - Grounding and Bonding
> 
> VII. Methods of Equipment Grounding
> 
> ...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Splatz got it.... The easiest way is to run the ground back to the panel but if there is a water pipe that is an electrode, then you can connect to it within 5' of where it enters the building.

IMO, it is best to go to the panel because someday the water piping may be changed to plastic and then you lose the equipment grounding conductor.

Now if you connect it to the grounding electrode conductor then you are okay


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I've never done it because I figured if I am going to run a new wire to the outlets, why not just run romex?


I could see running just a ground in some situations if it gets the job done without disturbing old brittle wiring. 

What kind of wire / wiring method could you use?


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

i dont like the idea myself but its young couple friend that is selling and cant put much money in it. trying to fix HI things as cheap as possible and this would be easy to do in this home with open basement. 1950 something


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

splatz said:


> I could see running just a ground in some situations if it gets the job done without disturbing old brittle wiring.
> 
> What kind of wire / wiring method could you use?


Splatz.,,

I have see that methold with old school K&T system before but some of antique NM cable too.

The last time I just ran a green THHN/THWN conductor some case bare ground conductor. I did not have much issue doing that but AFAIK it much easier just run the new NM to the first receptale location and go from there but with new AFCI rules kick in so it kinda crosshaired on that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

papaotis said:


> i dont like the idea myself but its young couple friend that is selling and cant put much money in it. trying to fix HI things as cheap as possible and this would be easy to do in this home with open basement. 1950 something


If that's the case then just GFCI it.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

tahts probly what will happen if its not much trouble to find beginning of each circuit


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

papaotis said:


> tahts probly what will happen if its not much trouble to find beginning of each circuit


I know GFCI breakers are more expensive, but if the panel will accept them, they are much easier to install than finding the beginning of each circuit, especially in old houses where there is no rhyme or reason to the wiring.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

papaotis said:


> tahts probly what will happen if its not much trouble to find beginning of each circuit


With open basement you should able to find the beginning of each circuit beside the ceiling lumaires that you may want to pay attetion to old style home run which I do know alot of older home the homerun some case they will hit the ceiling lumaires first before they radial it out ( branch out ) so expect that. 

Or get GFCI breaker if it can fit in there. but with fuse box just put a deadfront GFCI or other means what ya going get it.

Make sure you save alot of sticker to put a note say GFCI protected but no ground there.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

yeah, im sure with that era of home it is done that way, frenchie. maybe ill get lucky it does have a breaker panel though:thumbsup:


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

My sisters house is the same way. Only gfci protected outlets are in the kitchen, even though the other outlets have them, no ground but gfci protected stickers.
She had a loose connection in attic i fixed,( lights flickered when she used the hair dryer), and seen several non insulated grounds haphazzardly spliced in here and there. 
Interested what route you end up taking as I will be doing same soon.






Seen As A Tiny Blip From Space


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

papaotis said:


> on old residential homes with no ground wire is it permited to just run a ground wire to each outlet? in this perticular house it would be fairly simple


That is something we did a lot in the 60s when I was a wiseguy helper working with an old guy that couldn't bend. 

Most receptacles were in the baseboard.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

HackWork said:


> I know GFCI breakers are more expensive, but if the panel will accept them, they are much easier to install than finding the beginning of each circuit, especially in old houses where there is no rhyme or reason to the wiring.




AFGF breakers are cheaper than GFCI breakers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

frenchelectrican said:


> With open basement you should able to find the beginning of each circuit beside the ceiling lumaires that you may want to pay attetion to old style home run which I do know alot of older home the homerun some case they will hit the ceiling lumaires first before they radial it out ( branch out ) so expect that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




To save money on GFCI or AFGF breakers even if you find the circuit at the panel and can put a 4 gang box or a few two gang boxes next to the panel and put a few standard or faceless GFCI's in them to feed the circuits that saves quite a bit of cash being how an average GFCI is about 11 bucks and a GFCI breaker is about 90. Just sayin although in my opinion it looks much cleaner to GFCI the breaker. If a fuse box though I'd do this all day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Drsparky14 said:


> To save money on GFCI or AFGF breakers even if you find the circuit at the panel and can put a 4 gang box or a few two gang boxes next to the panel and put a few standard or faceless GFCI's in them to feed the circuits that saves quite a bit of cash being how an average GFCI is about 11 bucks and a GFCI breaker is about 90. Just sayin although in my opinion it looks much cleaner to GFCI the breaker. If a fuse box though I'd do this all day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, your prices are way off from here.

$11 is pretty good for a tamper resistant self testing GFCI, I generally pay $15 but one supply house is sometimes as low as $13.50 for Eaton brand. 

I have never seen a GFCI breaker for $90. I generally pay around $40 for Siemens. Even Home Depot has them on their website for $50. Home Depot also sells Square D Homeline for $40 and QO for $50.

Your idea of wiring GFCI's by the panel is a good one, but I think it's a toss up between the price of the GFCI breaker vs. the extra work you will do installing and wiring new boxes for the GFCI receptacles. I would probably just find the first one in the circuit and put the GFCI receptacle there before rewiring a box next to the panel. And now that I think about it, rewiring a box next to the panel might now make it so that you need an AFCI breaker. Damn code is hard to keep up with


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I've seen the gfci single poles for 60-70 here depending on brand, that's hd or menards. However I also find them for 40ish too.

The dual breakers are normally around 50.

The gfci outlet prices seem great to me though. I but the 3pk legrands for 40 I think at menards but get single duals at sh a lot for 32 or 34... I forget.


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## socket2ya (Oct 27, 2016)

Majewski said:


> I've seen the gfci single poles for 60-70 here depending on brand, that's hd or menards. However I also find them for 40ish too.
> 
> The dual breakers are normally around 50.
> 
> The gfci outlet prices seem great to me though. I but the 3pk legrands for 40 I think at menards but get single duals at sh a lot for 32 or 34... I forget.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Ct-LEVIT...de6bf44&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=9&sd=122489757672

I like getting a case of these GFIs from this ebay seller. They end up being 8.50ea for tamper resistant. Of course you have to make a larger up-front investmet at $255.00. You'll be amazed how quickly you go through a case of GFIs


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

When a dude is cashing in his chips ( selling his home ) I don't slow down to futz a few bucks WRT GFCI receptacles.

I just plop them in, ASAP... as the labor tab is going to dominate the equation.

Value engineering such nickel and dime stuff is a waste of mental energy.

For starters, the receptacles being replaced are ANCIENT. 

I break the bad news: they'd done.

The HO got his money's worth.

I'd replace every last one with a new GFCI puppy.

The value of a three-prong plug is largely lost when the circuit is protected by a GFCI receptacle.

No way do you want to invoke the AFCI gods into ancient wiring. :no:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

If we are talking about ungrounded wiring, we are also talking about those old, tiny metal boxes that are hard to fit GFCI's in with the wiring. I can't see replacing every outlet in the house with a GFCI.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

HackWork said:


> If we are talking about ungrounded wiring, we are also talking about those *old, tiny metal boxes that are hard to fit* GFCI's in with the wiring. I can't see replacing every outlet in the house with a GFCI.


That's a consideration.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> If we are talking about ungrounded wiring, we are also talking about those old, tiny metal boxes that are hard to fit GFCI's in with the wiring. I can't see replacing every outlet in the house with a GFCI.


Slim gfis have been working fine for me. The leviton slim and legrand are same size. I seriously used to dread making a gfi fit but now I have less issues.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> Slim gfis have been working fine for me. The leviton slim and legrand are same size. I seriously used to dread making a gfi fit but now I have less issues.


Sure, but IMO it's not optimal to spend the time making a GFCI fit in every receptacle location, nor have to purchase one for every location. Using a GFCI breaker is much cheaper and easier.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Sure, but IMO it's not optimal to spend the time making a GFCI fit in every receptacle location, nor have to purchase one for every location. Using a GFCI breaker is much cheaper and easier.


You're 200% right. It isn't optimal. Nothing is optimal in a chitty situation though so..... sometimes whatever works, works.

I'd love a breaker and I'd love to be able to paid to find and fix any possible trips once said breaker is installed. But lately I have been running into a lot of trash lol.


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## socket2ya (Oct 27, 2016)

telsa said:


> No way do you want to invoke the AFCI gods into ancient wiring. :no:


Yet here in MA that is exactly what you are expected to do when changing a receptacle in an area where arc-fault is required. It's to the point where changing a few receptacles in a room- a $250 service call in most peoples mind- turns into new wiring, arc-fault breaker, and receptacles making it closer to $600 or more. People will balk at that price when they only want some old plugs changed, they'd just assume have the handyman install the plugs (probably not tamper-resistant) for a fraction of the cost.


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## John M. (Oct 29, 2016)

Just be careful with putting GFCI breakers in....if you have a dedicated neutral you will be OK, but if they did any daisy chaining of the neutral with other circuits, a GFI breaker will trip.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

socket2ya said:


> Yet here in MA that is exactly what you are expected to do when changing a receptacle in an area where arc-fault is required. It's to the point where changing a few receptacles in a room- a $250 service call in most peoples mind- turns into new wiring, arc-fault breaker, and receptacles making it closer to $600 or more. People will balk at that price when they only want some old plugs changed, they'd just assume have the handyman install the plugs (probably not tamper-resistant) for a fraction of the cost.


Or an electrician who doesn't pull permits for silly things :whistling2:


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## socket2ya (Oct 27, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Or an electrician who doesn't pull permits for silly things :whistling2:


It goes beyond the permit Hack, it's a question of ethics. You and I both know the way we're "supposed to be" doing it. Yet when there's a permit we do it and if not we just ignore arc-fault breakers? I like to feel like I'm doing the right thing whether I'm pulling a permit or not, but this arc-fault snake oil crap puts us in an uncomfortable spot.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

socket2ya said:


> It goes beyond the permit Hack, it's a question of ethics. You and I both know the way we're "supposed to be" doing it. Yet when there's a permit we do it and if not we just ignore arc-fault breakers? I like to feel like I'm doing the right thing whether I'm pulling a permit or not, but this arc-fault snake oil crap puts us in an uncomfortable spot.


I'm very comfortable ignoring code saying an AFCI breaker needs to be installed when changing out a receptacle. 

The question of ethics should be asked of the NFPA and the corrupt CMP members who put AFCI requirements into code in the first place. Apparently envelops full of cash trump their ethics.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Isn't the code worded in such a way that GFCI breakers aren't allowed for this application? Or did that change a few cycles back? It's raining so I'm not going to get the code book right now.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

RePhase277 said:


> Isn't the code worded in such a way that GFCI breakers aren't allowed for this application? Or did that change a few cycles back? It's raining so I'm not going to get the code book right now.


You only need too add stickers stating; no ground
GFCI protected

I dont think theres a code that does not allow the GFCI, rather in these situations it is recommended.






Seen As A Tiny Blip From Space


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

RePhase277 said:


> Isn't the code worded in such a way that GFCI breakers aren't allowed for this application? Or did that change a few cycles back? It's raining so I'm not going to get the code book right now.


It states GFCI protection. A breaker satisfies the code. I am not sure about the past cycles though.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Space in the panel or space in the j-boxes...?

'Tis a puzzle, manys a time.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> It states GFCI protection. A breaker satisfies the code. I am not sure about the past cycles though.


It did meet the past cycle codes., it been a while on history wise but it been in the NEC more than 10 years that I do know but excatally when the NEC wrote it that I am not sure due there were some reveison going on over the cycles.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> It states GFCI protection. A breaker satisfies the code. I am not sure about the past cycles though.


I found a 2005 NEC Handbook on the shelf (yes, it's raining that hard, I'm going to get the new book, and I damn sure ain't paying for the app).

The wording in it only allows for receptacle type GFCIs... but I feel that changed to allow breakers, because it was stupid not to allow them. But here, have a look at the 2005, 406.3 (D)(3):


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

(c) allows the use of a GFCI breaker, no?

ETA: I just looked at the 2014 code and it says the same thing.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> (c) allows the use of a GFCI breaker, no?
> 
> ETA: I just looked at the 2014 code and it says the same thing.


I was looking at RePhase277 photo and that wording they havent change that for long time but I do not know if the 2017 nec code still covered the same as you posted ? 

I think it should be rewritten so we can use either GFCI receptale or GFCI breaker.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

frenchelectrican said:


> I was looking at RePhase277 photo and that wording they havent change that for long time but I do not know if the 2017 nec code still covered the same as you posted ?
> 
> *I think it should be rewritten so we can use either GFCI receptale or GFCI breaker*.


It's written right now so that we can use either.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

HackWork said:


> (c) allows the use of a GFCI breaker, no?
> 
> ETA: I just looked at the 2014 code and it says the same thing.


It says you can add a 3prong outlet( ground type receptacle) on loadside of the GFCI.

A GFCI breaker accomplishes a,b, and c but dont see it mentioned there.






Seen As A Tiny Blip From Space


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> (c) allows the use of a GFCI breaker, no?
> 
> ETA: I just looked at the 2014 code and it says the same thing.


Yeah. You're right. I glanced at it and didn't see the period.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I put in a gfci/afci outlet today and removed the stupid damn bonding pig tail some diy did and didn't use a sticker on the cover plate. Please don't turn me in.


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## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

RePhase277 said:


> Yeah. You're right. I glanced at it and didn't see the period.


Is it talking about a breaker or the load side of a gfci receptacle?







Seen As A Tiny Blip From Space


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

trentonmakes said:


> Is it talking about a breaker or the load side of a gfci receptacle?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It says: "...where supplied through a ground fault circuit interrupter."

I would take that to mean either a breaker or receptacle.

I swear the wording at some point in the past was such that only receptacle type GFCIs could be used.

Edit: Thinking about it, I believe it was a particular city that wouldn't allow breakers for this type of repair, only receptacles. Maybe the code never said it, but I'm remembering that instance instead.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Majewski said:


> I put in a gfci/afci outlet today and removed the stupid damn bonding pig tail some diy did and didn't use a sticker on the cover plate. Please don't turn me in.


The only time I ever use the sticker is when there is no equipment ground. I almost never put the "GFCI Protected Outlet" sticker on.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

RePhase277 said:


> It says: "...where supplied through a ground fault circuit interrupter."
> 
> I would take that to mean either a breaker or receptacle.
> 
> ...


I been thinking the same way it did not specfically say which type but I am sure they allowed both gfci breaker or receptale .

It was same way with some local area in wisconsin some did not allowed breaker for repairs but afaik .,, they changed it now so pretty much uniform on that.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The *'17* 406.4D applies , at least in localities who keep up.  

But one has to adhere to _all _of D :notworthy:

*D >>>1-6*

With consideration to 406.4-D-4* EX 2* _(along with it's errata_)

Our '_cost effective_' rx for old ungrounded rag wire is a DF , either breaker *OR* receptacle 

The '*OR'* dwells on accessibility

~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Considering most of us don't have the 2017, it's hard to follow what you are saying if you don't paste the article in your post. Plus, what is DF? Dead Front? How does that apply to a GFCI breaker?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

chicken steve said:


> The *'17* 406.4D applies , at least in localities who keep up.
> 
> But one has to adhere to _all _of D :notworthy:
> 
> ...


Hey Chickensteve .,, before I bang on your barn door but please explain what the heck you are refeering to the 17 code cycle due not all of us are up that zone yet.,,

DF ?? ya mean dead front devices ? but please expand it more.

I will send ya one of our mini coconut tree for your chickens to roost on it .,,


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

frenchelectrican said:


> > Hey Chickensteve .,, before I bang on your barn door but please explain what the heck you are refeering to the 17 code cycle due not all of us are up that zone yet.,,
> 
> 
> Because i'll be held to in _next _month , and the rest of you will most likely follow suit shortly thereafter French One
> ...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Considering most of us don't have the 2017, it's hard to follow what you are saying if you don't paste the article in your post. Plus, what is DF? Dead Front? How does that apply to a GFCI breaker?



I haven't received the '17 software yet , but i'll be sure to spam you as much as you'd like when i do

~CS~


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

In the NEC, is there a rule against extending the bond wire(EGC I think you call it?) from a receptacle that does not have a bond wire from the source, but is protected by a GFI?

In Canada we have one. Just curious if it is in the NEC as well. 
Example,
Old wire from panel to a receptacle, only a black and white, no bare bond. If we install a GFI receptacle there to protect it, and then run a new wire (black,white and bond) to another receptacle which would also be protected from the first GFI receptacle, we must NOT connect the bond wire in the new wire and keep it isolated from the box.

CEC 26-700(9) A bonding conductor shall not be extended from any receptacle protected by a ground fault circuit interrupter of the class A type in accordance with sub rule (8) to any other outlet.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

eddy current said:


> In the NEC, is there a rule against extending the bond wire(EGC I think you call it?) from a receptacle that does not have a bond wire from the source, but is protected by a GFI?


 Yes, you can't do it.

NEC:


> (2) Non–Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where attachment
> to an equipment grounding conductor does not exist
> in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply
> with (D)(2)(a), (D)(2)(b), or (D)(2)(c).
> ...


The rest of your post:


> In Canada we have one. Just curious if it is in the NEC as well.
> Example,
> Old wire from panel to a receptacle, only a black and white, no bare bond. If we install a GFI receptacle there to protect it, and then run a new wire (black,white and bond) to another receptacle which would also be protected from the first GFI receptacle, we must NOT connect the bond wire in the new wire and keep it isolated from the box.
> 
> CEC 26-700(9) A bonding conductor shall not be extended from any receptacle protected by a ground fault circuit interrupter of the class A type in accordance with sub rule (8) to any other outlet.


This is a bit of a different situation. What we have been discussing in this thread and the code to support it has been about replacing existing outlets. Your scenario is about extending off of old existing ungrounded circuits to install new outlets. I am not sure about that code.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

eddy current said:


> In the NEC, is there a rule against extending the bond wire(EGC I think you call it?) from a receptacle that does not have a bond wire from the source, but is protected by a GFI?
> 
> In Canada we have one. Just curious if it is in the NEC as well.
> Example,
> ...


Yes. Different wording. Same rule.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> I haven't received the '17 software yet , but i'll be sure to spam you as much as you'd like when i do
> 
> ~CS~


I actually have the PDF for the 2017. I bet you're jealous! If you tell me how handsome I am, you might find a copy in your email :shifty:

406.4(D)


> (D) Replacements. Replacement of receptacles shall comply
> with 406.4(D)(1) through (D)(6), as applicable. Arc-fault
> circuit-interrupter type and ground-fault circuit-interrupter
> type receptacles shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
> ...


I have pasted all of (D), 1 thru 6, since you mentioned all of those apply.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> Considering most of us don't have the 2017, it's hard to follow what you are saying if you don't paste the article in your post. Plus, what is DF? Dead Front? How does that apply to a GFCI breaker?


Pfffft I have it. I jammed it under my seat in the van so, I can't reach it or use it while on my desktop but.... I have it! lol


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I actually have the PDF for the 2017. I bet you're jealous! If you tell me how handsome I am, you might find a copy in your email :shifty:
> 
> 406.4(D)
> 
> ...


Thanks you handsome devil, :thumbsup: as an aside , note this>>>




> Section 210.12(B), *Exception* shall not apply to
> replacement of receptacles.


~CS~


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm not following what you are saying. 

FWIW, 210.12(B) is about dorms.



> (B) Dormitory Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-
> ampere branch circuits supplying outlets and devices installed
> in dormitory unit bedrooms, living rooms, hallways, closets,
> bathrooms, and similar rooms shall be protected by any of the
> means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6).


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BTW Steve, the email I sent to [email protected] bounced back. You gotta fix that, you're losing customers.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HackWork said:


> BTW Steve, the email I sent to [email protected] bounced back. You gotta fix that, you're losing customers.


But did you take advantage of the holiday special?


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## Asurfaholic (Apr 29, 2017)

To bring it to code all you need to do is make sure the receptacles are 2 wire receptacles. I was in the same situation, customer clsellig houss, HI found 3 wire receptacles with open ground. Homeowner wanted price to rewire, I gave the code reference one what the NEC says specifically could be done in 2 wire situations.

NEC 210.7(d)(3) permits any of the following when replacing 2 wire ungrounded receptacles
1) replace with 2 wire receptacles,
2) replace with GFCI type receptacles with a label stating "No equipment ground", or
3) replace with standard grounded type (3 prong) receptacle that is protected by a GFCI. Label as "GFCI Protected" and "No equipment ground"


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## Asurfaholic (Apr 29, 2017)

How to edit--- made a mistake ^^?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

How much did those 2-wire receptacles cost?

That wouldn't go over well around here because the buyer would then get an electrician to give an estimate to rewire all of them with a ground and then use that to negotiate a lower price on the house.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Asurfaholic..EDIT button at bottom of post within 3hrs of post.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> Asurfaholic..EDIT button at bottom of post within 3hrs of post.


 New people have to have a minimum amount of post before they could edit them.


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