# Are all Federal Pacific Panels Bad?



## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

cmhcissell said:


> Did all FPE panels have Stab Lok or did they have other designs that were OK?


Residential and light commercial were Stab-Loc, other commercial were bolt in, the issues with FPE more that the panels was the AIC rating for the circuit breakers they did not meet the specifications and they were sold anyway.

My belief on FPE American FPE (Federal Pacific Electric) is as with most equipment age, this equipment is not at a minimum 30+ years old, most of the circuit breakers have not been operated in all that time. Based just on this I would replace them, much less the issues with the Stab-Loc mounting to the bus..


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The stab lock was not the issue with fpe but rather that the breakers themselves failed - this was mostly during the 1980's that this issue was there.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The stab lock was not the issue with fpe but rather that the breakers themselves failed - this was mostly during the 1980's that this issue was there.


79 actually. Federal Pacific went bankrupt in 1979 and stopped doing the required UL testing, they were bought by UV industries (Who was then bought out by Sharon Steel) that knew nothing about the business and in 1980 Sharon Steel sold it to Reliance Electric. After Reliance aquired the company they discovered the lapse in UL testing and sued Sharon Steel. During the suit Exxon purchased Reliance but when they discovered the law suit they voided the deal. 

There never was any failures (More so than any other brand anyways) but there was a lapse in certification for a while which spawned the CPSC investigation, which was closed without any real findings besides old breakers should be replaced no matter what the brand.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I worked in a mid 1980's office building that was full of "FPE by Reliance Electric" gear. It had no resemblance to the old Stablock vintage stuff but was simply Westinghouse stuff in disguise. :001_huh:


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The stab lock was not the issue with fpe but rather that the breakers themselves failed - this was mostly during the 1980's that this issue was there.


THe stab-loc was not the published issue, but there were problems with them, more so IMO than with CH or QO's. Just based on my experience.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Zog said:


> 79 actually. Federal Pacific went bankrupt in 1979 and stopped doing the required UL testing, they were bought by UV industries (Who was then bought out by Sharon Steel) that knew nothing about the business and in 1980 Sharon Steel sold it to Reliance Electric. After Reliance aquired the company they discovered the lapse in UL testing and sued Sharon Steel. During the suit Exxon purchased Reliance but when they discovered the law suit they voided the deal.
> 
> There never was any failures (More so than any other brand anyways) but there was a lapse in certification for a while which spawned the CPSC investigation, which was closed without any real findings besides old breakers should be replaced no matter what the brand.



You are right in everything you said, however FPE residential breakers have serious issues. More so than those from the same era. Crack an FPE open vs any breaker from that time and you will find major design flaws in the FPEs. For one the actual fulcrum was a coiled spring They have no real magnetic trip (try moving the magnetic pole piece compared to other breakers and it speaks for itself). The common trip jams easily, the braid connecting the stab to the thermal mechanism often touches it bypassing it all together... the list goes on and on.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Ok guys local news video to pick apart. See if you can spot the disinfo vs real info:


http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/25331328/wmc-the-investigators-breaker-breaker?autostart=true


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

No, not all FPE panels are bad. Some were never installed and as long as those panels remain undisturbed they are perfectly fine!


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Only once did I encounter a FPE breaker that failed to trip, and it was a 30 amp wired to 14 awg wiring . The gutting crew knock a device into a grounded gem box. The room filled with white smoke before I was able to make it to panel and throw main. However a co worker accomplished the same thing with a MP115 breaker with a miswired switch loop. I heard old GE is capable of the same.

Sent from my C5215 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


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## michaelpwalton1 (Aug 22, 2007)

I use to contract in Philadelphia Pa. There was an inside joke between electricians that said, "The fireman love the Federal Breakers because they leave the lights on inside the burning building, so they can see".

I would not have one of them in any property that I own nor in a property of a loved one or family member. :no:

The only proper maintenance that they require is removal, replacement and proper disposal.


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## reechee (Jun 25, 2011)

Is that for the entire panel or just the breakers?


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## michaelpwalton1 (Aug 22, 2007)

reechee said:


> Is that for the entire panel or just the breakers?


Well, the Federal Pacific Panel will only accept their brand "stablock" breakers. So ultimately, if you have a problem with either the panel or the breakers, you would have to change the entire distribution panel. But to be specific, the breakers were the main fault.

However, the FDE breaker panel had a floating busbar that could be adjusted forward or backward to accommodate for setback in the wall and different thickness of the finished wall. It also came with a ring that was used with it for surface mounted applications.

When you removed the cover / door of the panel, everything inside was often compressed and it would almost jump out at you.

So, there were a few different issues with that type panel


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Nothing wrong with FPE panels.:whistling2:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

meadow said:


> Ok guys local news video to pick apart. See if you can spot the disinfo vs real info:
> 
> 
> http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/25331328/wmc-the-investigators-breaker-breaker?autostart=true






> But in a news release dated March 3, 1983, the CPSC stated it would not recommend a recall of the panels because it "...was unable at this time to link these failures to the development of a hazardous situation."
> 
> "The Commission staff estimates that it would cost several million dollars to gather the data necessary to assess fully whether those circuit breakers that are installed in homes but which may fail UL calibration tests present a risk to the public," the release read.
> 
> ...


Hard to say meadow. I will say i have little faith in the CPSC knowing their dismissal of (my opinion) bona fide afci concerns

As to resi FPE, what sparky of tenure doesn't have some story or concern?

who watches the watchers?

US!

~CS~


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## reechee (Jun 25, 2011)

I was working on a house built in 1967 that uses FPE breakers. Does this warning apply to older ones or just the ones from the 70's?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Zog said:


> 79 actually. Federal Pacific went bankrupt in 1979 and stopped doing the required UL testing, they were bought by UV industries (Who was then bought out by Sharon Steel) that knew nothing about the business and in 1980 Sharon Steel sold it to Reliance Electric. After Reliance aquired the company they discovered the lapse in UL testing and sued Sharon Steel. During the suit Exxon purchased Reliance but when they discovered the law suit they voided the deal.
> 
> There never was any failures (More so than any other brand anyways) but there was a lapse in certification for a while which spawned the CPSC investigation, which was closed without any real findings besides old breakers should be replaced no matter what the brand.


Connecticut Electric sells the replacement for the FP breakers. I bought a 60 amp double pole for $45 the other day and was quoted $300 for a 100 DP.


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## millelec (Nov 20, 2010)

Gotta love Sharon Steel. Have family and friends in that area of PA. Lot of people lost jobs when Sharon Steel's owners/board of directors played footsie w/Milken and junk bonds. I love western PA but there are no damn jobs.


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## Aldo Moretti (Aug 29, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The stab lock was not the issue with fpe but rather that the breakers themselves failed - this was mostly during the 1980's that this issue was there.


We used to call Federal Pacific breakers "no-blow breakers". Dangerous !


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I wonder if the UBI replacements perform any better than the originals?


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## madrone48 (Aug 15, 2012)

Zog said:


> There never was any failures (More so than any other brand anyways) but there was a lapse in certification for a while which spawned the CPSC investigation, which was closed without any real findings besides old breakers should be replaced no matter what the brand.



I have replaced more than one FPE breaker that failed to trip. I wouldn't sleep in a house with one.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

madrone48 said:


> I have replaced more than one FPE breaker that failed to trip. I wouldn't sleep in a house with one.


Unless you test all the circuit breakers in your house I would suggest you return to a fused panel or move into a tent. The firm I work for test circuit breakers and every manufacture has circuit breakers that fail the test. I cannot say anyone manufacture is worse than another.


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## BababooeyHTJ (May 31, 2013)

Shockdoc said:


> Only once did I encounter a FPE breaker that failed to trip, and it was a 30 amp wired to 14 awg wiring . The gutting crew knock a device into a grounded gem box. The room filled with white smoke before I was able to make it to panel and throw main. However a co worker accomplished the same thing with a MP115 breaker with a miswired switch loop. I heard old GE is capable of the same.
> 
> Sent from my C5215 using electriciantalk.com mobile app


I once hit the load side of an older 20a either challenger or Westinghouse breaker when tightening a ground wire. Put a massive hole in my screwdriver, created a large arc and blew the 100a main. 


Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

reechee said:


> I was working on a house built in 1967 that uses FPE breakers. Does this warning apply to older ones or just the ones from the 70's?


Any 57 year old breaker should be replaced, no matter what the brand


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