# GFCI's going bad



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Lighting strikes nearby?
Moisture leaching up from the UF or stub up?
Ants moving in?
These are 3 recurring problems I've had. They don't happen as quickly as yours. 
For the last 2, I pulled the UF up and taped were the conductors exited the jacket. Then I stuff it back down the pipe and place Perma-Gum/duct seal, in the pipe. When I reinstall the cover I leave a spot on the bottom of the cover open to the air. This allows condensation a place to go & warmer air in to help dry the GFCI quicker. 
Oh ya, if there is a nipple from the house to outside, place perma gum there so. 

Hope this helps. Good luck


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> OK need help here, going to a customers who keeps having gfci's going bad. This will be #3 that I've replaced in past 4 months. It is outdoors feeding remote receptacles where water fountain and low-voltage transformer plug into.
> 
> this is exact setup: GFCI on side of house feeds switch adjacent to it which feeds 1 of 2 remote receptacles, which controls water feature and also one more cable from gfci to other remote receptacle for LV tranny/time clock. It is 2 separate 14/2 uf cables going to remote box (landscape contractor installed, not me).
> 
> Last time i megged lines and everything checked fine. I even drove a stick of 1/2'' EMT down in the ground between gfci and remote box and checked all lines to it to rule out any possibilities of leakage that grounding conductor couldn't pick up . BTW, in any 3 cases the gfci wouldn't reset. If equipment was cause, wouldn't it trip gfci and not completely take it out? Please help!


If the GFCI's are old then you should be able to change them out with a type "WR" type GFCI receptacle and solve the problem.

I get many of these and it is just exposure to the weather and time.

Remember people never test them monthly like it says on them.

If after changing them out and they still trip then you will have to find the problem,,But it is usually just old.:thumbsup:


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

In-use cover not sealed with caulk, letting water get into it?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Also get some Commercial Grade type WR GFCI receptacles

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-GFCI-Receptacle-3DWD3?Pid=search








...................


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for replays, as for WR, yes they all have been, this is a new install. As for lightning, yes there has been storms roughly every time this happens. My initial thoughts were definitely lightning related but damn, is it really possible the same house is having lightning issues this often? I know anything is possible but man this is making me look bad to customer and ultimately contractor who i do quite a bit of work for. If it is lighting related, how do i overcome this problem, SPD? tnx


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> Thanks for replays, as for WR, yes they all have been, this is a new install. As for lightning, yes there has been storms roughly every time this happens. My initial thoughts were definitely lightning related but damn, is it really possible the same house is having lightning issues this often? I know anything is possible but man this is making me look bad to customer and ultimately contractor who i do quite a bit of work for. If it is lighting related, how do i overcome this problem, SPD? tnx


Use one of these for the lightning...........http://www.serioussurgeprotection.com/?gclid=CI6L5oHWlrACFcdlOgod9y3L1Q


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

I have seen lightening storms cause all the gfi in a house to go bad, and that was only damage.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Do they make a SPD/gfci device? I can't seem to find one.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> Do they make a SPD/gfci device? I can't seem to find one.


GEORGE , what is SPD?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I am guessing SPD stands for surge protective device.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> I am guessing SPD stands for surge protective device.


Yes!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I always set up my jobs where I only have "point of use" GFCI protection..

IMO.. using "feed through" GFCI creates more problems then it solves..

Now I will get jumped on for saying such a thing.. it works for me and I'm not the guy having problems..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> Yes!


I have not seen that type I don't think they make them.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> I always set up my jobs where I only have "point of use" GFCI protection..
> 
> IMO.. using "feed through" GFCI creates more problems then it solves..
> 
> Now I will get jumped on for saying such a thing.. it works for me and I'm not the guy having problems..


You will get jumped on because you are right.:thumbup:


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

In other words, gfci breaker, right? Heres my question, in my case, it has only been this outdoor gfci going bad which tells me the surge is coming from load side into the gfci every time. If this is the case, would a gfci breaker solve the problem or would it most likely take out breaker next time? And like I stated earlier, is it even possible/likely that lightning is traveling up the same branch circuit every time?



B4T said:


> I always set up my jobs where I only have "point of use" GFCI protection..
> 
> IMO.. using "feed through" GFCI creates more problems then it solves..
> 
> Now I will get jumped on for saying such a thing.. it works for me and I'm not the guy having problems..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

GEORGE D said:


> In other words, gfci breaker, right? Heres my question, in my case, it has only been this outdoor gfci going bad which tells me the surge is coming from load side into the gfci every time. If this is the case, would a gfci breaker solve the problem or would it most likely take out breaker next time? And like I stated earlier, is it even possible/likely that lightning is traveling up the same branch circuit every time?


A GFCI breaker does nothing for your problem.. 

GFCI receptacle at every "point of use".. then you know exactly where the problem equipment is plugged into.. there is no "load side" to deal with..

It eliminates all the guess work you are dealing with now..


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

If nothing else solves the problem, check to see if the home run from the GFCI receptacle is part of a multi-wire circuit. A loose neutral on a multi-wire circuit can raise the voltage enough to kill the electronics in the GFCI.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Tom nailed what I was thinking. Once again, its a problem when you live in the future...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Tom nailed what I was thinking. Once again, its a problem when you live in the future...


No.. it is a problem when you don't plan for the present..


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Tom45acp said:


> If nothing else solves the problem, check to see if the home run from the GFCI receptacle is part of a multi-wire circuit. A loose neutral on a multi-wire circuit can raise the voltage enough to kill the electronics in the GFCI.


No, I installed hr. Good try though.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

What type/brand recep?


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Cooper


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

GEORGE D said:


> Cooper


Just had a call for this on Monday. When you depress the reset button, does the LED appear?


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Not sure, don't remember. I'll let you know later though when I finish there.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> No.. it is a problem when you don't plan for the present..


You're giving presents good man..:thumbup::laughing:


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Ok gentlemen..... drum roll...............Water spilled out of switch box soon as I opened it. Megged everything again and traced it to internal short in switch. Drilled weep holes and siliconed entries.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You're giving presents good man..:thumbup::laughing:


Yes.. beg and I will give you a milk bone.. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I always set up my jobs where I only have "point of use" GFCI protection..
> 
> IMO.. using "feed through" GFCI creates more problems then it solves..



You're such a doofus.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You're such a doofus.


Get lost masshole.. this site is for professionals.. not wanna be Home Depot trunk slammers who get their kicks trolling Internet forums.. :no::no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Get lost masshole.. this site is for professionals.. not wanna be Home Depot trunk slammers who get their kicks trolling Internet forums.. :no::no:


He's from RI.....:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Yes.. beg and I will give you a milk bone.. :laughing:


:laughing::laughing:


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> He's from RI.....:laughing:


I thought it was Ohio.... or was it Georgia?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jefft110 said:


> I thought it was Ohio.... or was it Georgia?


He does a lot of posting and driving...:laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Get lost masshole.. this site is for professionals.. not wanna be Home Depot trunk slammers who get their kicks trolling Internet forums.. :no::no:


Sure thing, doofus.


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## CopperSlave (Feb 9, 2012)

GEORGE D said:


> Ok gentlemen..... drum roll...............Water spilled out of switch box soon as I opened it. Megged everything again and traced it to internal short in switch. Drilled weep holes and siliconed entries.





CopperSlave said:


> In-use cover not sealed with caulk, letting water get into it?


:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

jefft110 said:


> I thought it was Ohio.... or was it Georgia?


Ohio? 

Georgia is cool, but I sure ain't from there. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Get lost masshole.. this site is for professionals.. not wanna be Home Depot trunk slammers who get their kicks trolling Internet forums.. :no::no:


So let's say you have a garage or home workshop with 10 receptacles in it. You put 10 GFCI's in? Sorry, you're the one who looks like a trunk slammer doing stuff like that. :yes:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> So let's say you have a garage or home workshop with 10 receptacles in it. You put 10 GFCI's in? Sorry, you're the one who looks like a trunk slammer doing stuff like that. :yes:


Remember if you can sell 10 GFCI Receptacles at a premium price, why not?

I do it all the time = more profit for me and if one goes bad which seems to be more often these days it will be the only thing that goes dead.

Always upsell Pete.......:thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Remember if you can sell 10 GFCI Receptacles at a premium price, why not?
> 
> I do it all the time = more profit for me and if one goes bad which seems to be more often these days it will be the only thing that goes dead.
> 
> Always upsell Pete.......:thumbup:


I get the point of upselling. 

So now instead of a handful of GFCI's that could go bad, you're giving them almost a dozen or more in a house to go bad. That doesn't make sense. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> So let's say you have a garage or home workshop with 10 receptacles in it. You put 10 GFCI's in? Sorry, you're the one who looks like a trunk slammer doing stuff like that. :yes:


YES.. I up sell the job and put in (10) receptacles.. if one goes bad.. the others still work so the work does not stop..

I never had a customer complain about having "point of use" GFCI protection when I explain how it works.. 

You just enjoy being a masshole with your stupid posts.. wise up before you get banned again for being a jerk..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> YES.. I up sell the job and put in (10) receptacles.. if one goes bad.. the others still work so the work does not stop..
> 
> I never had a customer complain about having "point of use" GFCI protection when I explain how it works..


That's silly. But if you can convince people to waste money on that, more power to you. :thumbsup:



> You just enjoy being a masshole with your stupid posts.. wise up before you get banned again for being a jerk..


No, I'm just plain spoken. Some people can handle it, others like yourself can't.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> That's silly. But if you can convince people to waste money on that, more power to you. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm just plain spoken. Some people can handle it, others like yourself can't.


Only in your eyes it's "silly".. I'm out to make money and sell the best job I can for the buck..

You just don't get it.. why is it I don't see anyone else here chiming in how "silly" having "point of use" GFCI protection is..

People are willing to pay for a better job.. but Peter D says that is wrong.. :no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Let's try not to fall in love gentleman....:laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Only in your eyes it's "silly".. I'm out to make money and sell the best job I can for the buck..
> 
> You just don't get it.. why is it I don't see anyone else here chiming in how "silly" having "point of use" GFCI protection is..
> 
> People are willing to pay for a better job.. but Peter D says that is wrong.. :no:


You seem to have selective memory problems because last time you posted about it, plenty of people said it was a waste of time. But hey, you work out of a bunch of buckets in the back of your van, but yet I'm the HD trunkslammer. :lol:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You seem to have selective memory problems because last time you posted about it, plenty of people said it was a waste of time. But hey, you work out of a bunch of buckets in the back of your van, but yet I'm the HD trunkslammer. :lol:


Talk about selective memory.. the buckets are so I can have an empty bed for loading up a generator or a Ditchwitch.. ring any bells.. 

Now go outside and play.. there are adults here trying to have a conversation..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Talk about selective memory.. the buckets are so I can have an empty bed for loading up a generator or a Ditchwitch.. ring any bells..


Get a trailer. :thumbsup: Better yet, go to your favorite truck rental place :whistling2: and get a van or pickup for a day or two to move the generator. Sure beats working out of buckets.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Let's try not to fall in love gentleman....:laughing:



:laughing::laughing:

B4T's not a bad guy, he's just a stubborn old hack.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

peter d said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> B4t's not a bad guy, he's just a stubborn old hack.


<yawn>


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## TooFarFromFenway (Jul 15, 2011)

Are we really getting into a pissing match over GFCI receptacles? 

Grow up you two. Jeez. FFS. Act like the professionals you both claim to be. 

If you two don't like each other, use the IGNORE feature! It's there for this specific reason.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

> This is exact setup: GFCI on side of house feeds switch adjacent to it which feeds 1 of 2 remote receptacles,


You might be able to see it with this and the correct meter!


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