# Review my Jacuzzi Disconnect Cheat Sheet?



## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Can someone please review my jacuzzi disconnect cheat sheet.
I don't do them all the time and never remember all the requirements. I'm hoping this sheet will help me to catch everything while I'm making the estimate.

The cheat sheet is attached.

Thanks


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

I believe a spa on a pad requires an equipotential bonding grid.

However, nice drawing, got any more?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*6/7*

6 and 7 seem wrong ?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Cletis said:


> 6 and 7 seem wrong ?


They seem wrong? :blink: 

Can you tell us what would make them right?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*...*

< then or = to. Breaker in service panel has to match feeders. Unless there is some spa rule about it I don't know about. I run 100 amp feeders to outside spa box's all the time. Then have a 50 gfci for spa and other breakers for other pool stuff ??? Unless I'm reading something wrong. I am dyslexic sort of


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

And i actually used to conduit/flex those on the house Hot tub installations just for the insulated ground.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Cletis said:


> < then or = to. Breaker in service panel has to match feeders. Unless there is some spa rule about it I don't know about. I run 100 amp feeders to outside spa box's all the time. Then have a 50 gfci for spa and other breakers for other pool stuff ??? Unless I'm reading something wrong. I am dyslexic sort of


What code article?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*?*

I don't know. How can the breaker in the service panel be equal to or less than the spa breaker load? That's all I'm saying


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I agree the breaker cannot be less than what the tub requires. I see many other errors.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If you are using the 2008NEC the recep. must be 6' and not exceeding 10'. The flex cannot be used in that drawing and still be 6' if the disconnect must be at least 5' away from the tub.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

*Equipotential bonding grid*



TOOL_5150 said:


> I believe a spa on a pad requires an equipotential bonding grid.
> 
> However, nice drawing, got any more?


I was confused on that as well. I asked the Camarillo, CA inspector and it seems it is not required for one of these units as described in 680.2 Packaged Spa or Hot Tub.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

swimmer said:


> I was confused on that as well. I asked the Camarillo, CA inspector and it seems it is not required for one of these units as described in 680.2 Packaged Spa or Hot Tub.


Isn't that an exception coming in 2011? We're still in 2008, and it requires it I believe. Simi Valley inspector said "what's an equipotential bonding grid?" when I called him to find out if I'd be ok without one.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> I don't know. How can the breaker in the service panel be equal to or less than the spa breaker load? That's all I'm saying


I installed one recently where the tag on the spa connection box said 41A. It was a jacuzzi that is pretty popular in this area. Not an oddball. 
I used:
40A breaker in the service panel
6 AWG from service panel to jacuzzi disconnect box
60A GFI breaker in spa disconnect box that came with the disconnect box.

45A or 50A would have been a violation as far as I can determine.
This is why I said service panel breaker should be less than or equal.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I believe a spa on a pad requires an equipotential bonding grid.
> 
> However, nice drawing, got any more?



Here's one for you. Basically started with a Tom Henry motor circuit drawing and added some stuff I ran into. Tell me what you think.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> If you are using the 2008NEC the recep. must be 6' and not exceeding 10'. The flex cannot be used in that drawing and still be 6' if the disconnect must be at least 5' away from the tub.



How do you typically connect from spa panel to spa connection box? Under ground or rigid under wood deck?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

swimmer said:


> How do you typically connect from spa panel to spa connection box? Under ground or rigid under wood deck?


Usually I use PVC and once I am into the spa area surrounding the tub I use carflex to the control unit.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

*Jacuzzi Cheat Sheet V2*

1. I changed item 7 to clarify larger breaker size in spa panel. I usually see spa boxes rated at 50A or 60A. They come with a GFI. However the spa itself is frequently rated around 40A. In this case I put a 40A breaker in the service panel and use 6AWG though I suppose I could use 8AWG.

2. Equipotential Bond requirement, in my area, varies with inspector. 

3. How do you typically connect spa panel to spa connection box if not with LFMC or LFNMC?
a. PVC under ground?
b. Rigid under a wood deck?


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

*Jacuzzi Cheat Sheet V3*

Included the 2008 NEC change that 120V receptacle be located a minimum of 6 rather than 5 feet from tub. Thanks for pointing this out Dennis.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

swimmer said:


> Included the 2008 NEC change that 120V receptacle be located a minimum of 6 rather than 5 feet from tub. Thanks for pointing this out Dennis.


That's for indoor units only.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

http://www.bofunk.com/video/313/pissing_in_the_pool.html


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## Bulldog (Jan 28, 2009)

There is an interm stop for Equipotential Bond requirement for packaged hot tubs


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Bulldog said:


> There is an interm stop for Equipotential Bond requirement for packaged hot tubs



I'm finding that this is at the digression of the AHJ. So for I've had 2 nay and 1 yea. Just need to check before estimate.
Nothing in NEC connects equipotential bond to "Packaged Spa or Hot Tub Equipment Assembly" as described in 680.2


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## Bulldog (Jan 28, 2009)

You can go to this link and read anout the ruling
http://www.poolspanews.com/2011/041/041n_nec.html


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I'd probably not call it it a Jacuzzi unless you are making the cheat sheet up for them.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Bulldog said:


> You can go to this link and read anout the ruling
> http://www.poolspanews.com/2011/041/041n_nec.html


That is only if you are on the 2011 NEC. The 2008 must install the epb.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

360max said:


> http://www.bofunk.com/video/313/pissing_in_the_pool.html


:lol::thumbdown:


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> That is only if you are on the 2011 NEC. The 2008 must install the epb.



Dennis could you please cite the article?
I could not find this requirement in article 680 of 2008 NEC


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## bahtah (Dec 21, 2010)

*Jacuzzi disconnect*

I don't have my code book handy but I thought a Single Family Dwelling did not require a safety disconnect and that, that requirement was for commercial installations. I have done Hot Tubs where the GFI panel that came with the Hot Tub was installed out of site from the hot tub.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

swimmer said:


> dennis could you please cite the article?
> I could not find this requirement in article 680 of 2008 nec


680.26


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

bahtah said:


> i don't have my code book handy but i thought a single family dwelling did not require a safety disconnect and that, that requirement was for commercial installations. I have done hot tubs where the gfi panel that came with the hot tub was installed out of site from the hot tub.


680.12


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

19kilosparky984 said:


> 680.12


Now look at 680.41 in the 2008 NEC:
...This requirement shall not apply to single-family dwellings


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

19kilosparky984 said:


> 680.26


The following is from the 2008 NEC

*IV. Spas and Hot Tubs
680.40 General.* Electrical installations at spas and hot tubs shall comply with the provisions of Part I and Part IV of this article.

680.26 is in *Part II. Permanently Installed Pools*

There is a section of *Part IV. Spas and Hot Tubs* that mentions bonding. *680.42 Outdoor Installations (B) Bonding *says:

"Bonding by metal-to-metal mounting on a common frame or base shall be permitted"

I'm not sure what this means but I don't think they are talking about bonding to rebar in concrete or copper loop of 8AWG in dirt.

The other reference in 680.42(B) talks about barrel staves and I haven't encountered this type of jacuzzi.

So to me, it looks like the 2008 NEC does not require equipotential bonding on a Spa or Hot Tub as described in *680.2 Self-Contained Spa or Hot Tub*


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

The only thing you are missing is naked escorts in the tub!


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

swimmer said:


> The following is from the 2008 NEC
> 
> IV. Spas and Hot Tubs
> 680.40 General. Electrical installations at spas and hot tubs shall comply with the provisions of Part I and Part IV of this article.
> ...


A self- contained spa or hot tub is one of the small 110 volt ones that just plugs in
The bonding does apply and will apply until that amendment goes thru,if it didn't apply don't you think the amendment would have never been written?

The disconnect requirement gets over ruled by the ICC which requires it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

19kilosparky984 said:


> A self- contained spa or hot tub is one of the small 110 volt ones that just plugs in


I don't agree. A self contained tub is any tub that has not been put together in the field. I see no mention of cord or voltage in the definition.



> Self-Contained Spa or Hot Tub. Factory-fabricated unit consisting of a spa or hot tub vessel with all water-circulating, heating, and control equipment integral to the unit. Equipment can include pumps, air blowers, heaters, lights, controls, sanitizer generators, and so forth.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

So then you don't do the bonding ring or the rebar ?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

19kilosparky984 said:


> So then you don't do the bonding ring or the rebar ?


Only if the tub meets the requirements of the TIA and your area is under the 2011 NEC. In NC you still must do the epb.


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## 19kilosparky984 (Sep 14, 2011)

Well according to this other guy you don't have to because it's self contained.

I say you still have to under 2008 nec.

Same with the disconnect I just do it and bill accordingly because if you don't it will fail.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

19kilosparky984 said:


> Well according to this other guy you don't have to because it's self contained.
> 
> I say you still have to under 2008 nec.
> 
> Same with the disconnect I just do it and bill accordingly because if you don't it will fail.


I agree-- it is odd though that the TIA is issued only for the 2011 NEC and not the 2008. It also may depend on local ahj's deciding if it is good for the 2011 then why not allow it for the 2008. Makes sense but unless there is a local amendment it is only for the 2011.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

*TIA is 680.42(B) in 2014 NEC*

I don't own a 2014 NEC but from an article, by Jim Dollard, in the April 2014 ECM magazine , it looks like the TIA has been implemented as 680.42(B) in the 2014 NEC.
Unfortunately, I'm on 2011 where I don't know whether or not it was implemented.


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