# My latest inspection fail



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

My GC had one of his guys sit for inspections today and he calls me (after the inspector leaves of course) to tell me we failed for running a phone line in the same hole in the top plate with a romex. wires immediately seperate before and after going through the 2x4's and are more than 12" apart the rest of the run! such BS! I scoured the code book and all I could find is 800.133(A)(2), However exception 1 makes the whole situation null and void. Thoughts?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'd call the AHJ and ask for a Code reference first.


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

I Immediately called and left a message, clerk said he would be back in the office from 3-4, called again at 3:55 and he had already left. I'm pissed because 1. fails for anything make me look bad to my customers and 2, they can't come out for 2 days to reinspect a bs fail anyway setting the job back for no reason. I'll be calling again at 8 am tomorrow morning!


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

NJSparky said:


> I Immediately called and left a message, clerk said he would be back in the office from 3-4, called again at 3:55 and he had already left. I'm pissed because 1. fails for anything make me look bad to my customers and 2, they can't come out for 2 days to reinspect a bs fail anyway setting the job back for no reason. I'll be calling again at 8 am tomorrow morning!


Good luck with that! Getting a hold of inspectors can be a nightmare.


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

That's why I was pissed the guy who was waiting didn't call me when he was there. I could have argued with him on the spot, once he left I knew I would be screwed


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Good luck with that! Getting a hold of inspectors can be a nightmare.


Especially in NJ. A lot of inspectors here are part time and do 1-4 different towns. You're lucky to find 2 hours per week that you can get a hold of them.

They also have large windows that they come out for inspection, but won't let you know what time or call you before coming.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

That's a bull call.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

NJSparky said:


> My GC had one of his guys sit for inspections today and he calls me (after the inspector leaves of course) to tell me we failed for running a phone line in the same hole in the top plate with a romex. wires immediately seperate before and after going through the 2x4's and are more than 12" apart the rest of the run! such BS! I scoured the code book and all I could find is 800.133(A)(2), However exception 1 makes the whole situation null and void. Thoughts?






800.133(A)(2) states>



> *(2) * Other Applications. Communications wires and cables
> shall be separated at least 50 mm (2 in.) from conductors of
> any electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire
> alarm, or medium-power network-powered broadband
> ...


~CS~


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

That's the one CS.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Unless you've no AHJ email in *youfigureitoutJersey*, ring up your inspector, and sent it to him Sparky. I do it all the time!~CS~


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The inspector is misinterpreting the code. If the wires were individual wires in a raceway that would be an issue however going thru the same hole in a stud is not an issue. Of course it is best to separate the wires from electric as much as possible. I don't like to run parallel to electric wires for more than a few inches if I can avoid it.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I find a lot of AHJ's don't _do_ exceptions .....~CS~


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Code or not, you should get used to not running low voltage wires in the same holes as power wires. Separate holes has been the way it always was in NJ. 

No more than two Romex's through a bored hole also. Call me wrong and castrate me all you, or anyone else wants, it is the way neat and workmanship like manner looks to most NJ inspectors.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Methinks many of us do Cabletie. If we do new work, there's always a dedicated LV path, but all bets are off on a fish job

~CS~


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

cabletie said:


> Code or not, you should get used to not running low voltage wires in the same holes as power wires. Separate holes has been the way it always was in NJ.
> 
> No more than two Romex's through a bored hole also. Call me wrong and castrate me all you, or anyone else wants, it is the way neat and workmanship like manner looks to most NJ inspectors.


Code violations and common practices are 2 different things. Thanks for the education but I'm well aware of how to run low voltage cables as I spent 10+years working for a data contractor, running hundreds of thousands of cat5,cat6 and fiber optic cables. BICSI and Corning certified also.


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

chicken steve said:


> methinks many of us do cabletie. If we do new work, there's always a dedicated lv path, but all bets are off on a fish job
> 
> ~cs~


bingo!


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Thing is, it sounds like one of those _'validate my existence'_ redtags Spark

I get 'em all the time , and see them walk past a lot of what they COULD cite....

~CS~


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

NJSparky said:


> Code violations and common practices are 2 different things. Thanks for the education but I'm well aware of how to run low voltage cables as I spent 10+years working for a data contractor, running hundreds of thousands of cat5,cat6 and fiber optic cables. BICSI and Corning certified also.


I was a expecting a good comeback after the coment I made, that is why I said castrate me. :thumbup:

The good thing is with all your experience it should be nothing to reroute the cable if need be.


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

cabletie said:


> I was a expecting a good comeback after the coment I made, that is why I said castrate me. :thumbup:
> 
> The good thing is with all your experience it should be nothing to reroute the cable if need be.


Indeed.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

cabletie said:


> Code or not, you should get used to not running low voltage wires in the same holes as power wires. Separate holes has been the way it always was in NJ.
> 
> No more than two Romex's through a bored hole also. Call me wrong and castrate me all you, or anyone else wants, it is the way neat and workmanship like manner looks to most NJ inspectors.


I completely agree. I never run in the same hole for fear of the 60 cycle hummmm.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I really thought there would have been a big back lash about the two Romex's in a hole. 

Well the night is still young.


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

Uopdate: called inspector this morning and spoke with him and cited the above reference and exception. He saw it my way and no re-inspect necessary. He was actually very nice and thanked me for helping him learn something new today.


----------



## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

NJSparky said:


> Uopdate: called inspector this morning and spoke with him and cited the above reference and exception. He saw it my way and no re-inspect necessary. He was actually very nice and thanked me for helping him learn something new today.


There may be hope for him yet.... He should, as a practice, look up the code section before writing a defect. I do that just to make sure I'm correct... the memory ain't what it used to be.

Pete


----------



## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Who uses phone cable anymore?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jbfan said:


> Who uses phone cable anymore?


Installing a phone jack is a requirement in a dwelling. Sure, you can use cat 5, but I still have plenty of POTS 4-wire around.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Installing a phone jack is a requirement in a dwelling. Sure, you can use cat 5, but I still have plenty of POTS 4-wire around.


If you put the phone jack on the opposite side of the wall as the demarc, a 500' roll will last the rest of your career :laughing:


----------



## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Installing a phone jack is a requirement in a dwelling.


 How long has that been a requirement ?

Is it in the NEC ?

I remember showing up at a dwelling to install phone service and there were zero jacks prewired. The builders excuse was "I have no idea where the home owner will want the phone".

Prior to Divestiture in 1984, the TELCO would prewire a house for free. It worked to the TELCOs advantage because back then phones were rented for a monthly fee. More jacks meant more phones, which meant more revenue.

After 1984 the TELCO had to charge for prewires. IIRC it was $11.00 per jack. Builders resisted and all the prewires went to the electricians.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Pete m. said:


> There may be hope for him yet.... He should, as a practice, look up the code section before writing a defect. I do that just to make sure I'm correct... *the memory ain't what it used to be*.
> 
> Pete


What!!!!

We expect our inspectors to be perfect, all knowing, always right, of the highest moral character, vegetarians and without any weaknesses. Memory problems can not be tolerated. 

Time for you to retire, sir!


----------



## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

flyboy said:


> What!!!!
> 
> We expect our inspectors to be perfect, all knowing, always right, of the highest moral character, vegetarians and without any weaknesses. Memory problems can not be tolerated.
> 
> Time for you to retire, sir!


:laughing::laughing:

With the way the State keeps dipping into and changing our pensions I may have to go to the "Drop Program" (work until I drop).

Pete


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Ty Wrapp said:


> How long has that been a requirement ?
> 
> Is it in the NEC ?
> .......



800.156. First implemented in the 2008.


----------



## NJSparky (May 21, 2014)

jbfan said:


> Who uses phone cable anymore?


It was for a residential elevator, and I used cat5e cause thats all I carry in the van anymore.


----------



## CT Tom (Aug 10, 2014)

480sparky said:


> 800.156. First implemented in the 2008.


CT EC here, been working off the NEC 05 until January of 2014, now we are on the 2011. Thanks for pointing this out.


----------



## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

CT Tom said:


> CT EC here, been working off the NEC 05 until January of 2014, now we are on the 2011. Thanks for pointing this out.


CT got lucky (or was lucky).


----------



## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

480sparky said:


> 800.156. First implemented in the 2008.


We just adopted the 2008 last January. I wonder if our inspectors even know about it.

Edit: I just read it and seems only new construction?


> 800.156 Dwelling Unit Communications Outlet. For new
> construction, a minimum of one communications outlet
> shall be installed within the dwelling and cabled to the
> service provider demarcation point.


Would that also qualify if just a room addition? New construction right?


----------



## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

aftershockews said:


> We just adopted the 2008 last January. I wonder if our inspectors even know about it.


Shhhh.... they will hear you.:whistling2:

Pete


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

aftershockews said:


> We just adopted the 2008 last January. I wonder if our inspectors even know about it.
> 
> Edit: I just read it and seems only new construction?
> 
> ...


That would be the AHJ's call. But don't bother them.... they're too busy not looking things up in the first place.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

NJSparky said:


> I Immediately called and left a message, clerk said he would be back in the office from 3-4, called again at 3:55 and he had already left. I'm pissed because 1. fails for anything make me look bad to my customers and 2, they can't come out for 2 days to reinspect a bs fail anyway setting the job back for no reason. I'll be calling again at 8 am tomorrow morning!


In the meantime cut a slit about 6" or so laterally away and pull the wire over to there.:thumbsup:


----------

