# Can I use romex?



## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

yes, but why?


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Helmut said:


> yes, but why?


Seriously? Wood stud walls and plastic boxes = profit.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

CoolWill said:


> Seriously? Wood stud walls and plastic boxes = profit.


If it’s wood ceiling why not run it to the fixtures too? It’s common practise in a house.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

CoolWill said:


> Seriously? Wood stud walls and plastic boxes = profit.


I'd never do that. I'd price the whole thing for MC.

This sounds like a moonlighter thing, or a craigslist handyman way of doing things.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Helmut said:


> I'd never do that. I'd price the whole thing for MC.
> 
> This sounds like a moonlighter thing, or a craigslist handyman way of doing things.


Why not price it for MC and use Romex?


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

99cents said:


> Why not price it for MC and use Romex?


I didn't make a living doing that kind of stuff, when my name was on it.

You can do whatever you want.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

If they are setting the walls to avoid the lights then basically you are cutting a few lights free and adding a light switch.
Is 100' of mc really the difference between make or break.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

gpop said:


> If they are setting the walls to avoid the lights then basically you are cutting a few lights free and adding a light switch.
> Is 100' of mc really the difference between make or break.


No, I’m just being petulant.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

99cents said:


> No, I’m just being petulant.


I hate people who make me google a word to see what it means.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

.....


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

Romex cannot be exposed in commercial. It has to be behind a 15 min firewall, like behind the studs and rocked all the way to the ceiling. MC can be exposed above the ceiling.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

99cents said:


> Why not price it for MC and use Romex?


Sounds more like you're a GC instead of a professional electrician.


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## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

If you design build and approved by building department you are good to go . If the print is drawn by 3rd party and m/c is spec you do it no go . Rules for Romex has changed in some areas depending on building classification . 

We wired a condo Reno on the 30th floor in Romex with steel studs but we did the design build . 

Try Romex in a grocery store and see what happens .


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

catsparky1 said:


> If you design build and approved by building department you are good to go . If the print is drawn by 3rd party and m/c is spec you do it no go . Rules for Romex has changed in some areas depending on building classification .
> 
> We wired a condo Reno on the 30th floor in Romex with steel studs but we did the design build .
> 
> Try Romex in a grocery store and see what happens .


You'd be surprised at some of the job sites I've seen romex on.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MHElectric said:


> You'd be surprised at some of the job sites I've seen romex on.


I think it was @MechanicalDVR who started the thread on those job sites.... We have all seen them.

None of us have ever wired them though!:whistling2:


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

99cents said:


> If it’s wood ceiling why not run it to the fixtures too? It’s common practise in a house.


We have a code prohibiting NM above suspended ceilings in non-dwelling units.



Helmut said:


> I'd never do that. I'd price the whole thing for MC.
> 
> This sounds like a moonlighter thing, or a craigslist handyman way of doing things.


Why does a commercial space get "better" wiring than a home where people sleep at night?


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

CoolWill said:


> Why does a commercial space get "better" wiring than a home where people sleep at night?


Cause they paid for it.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

CoolWill said:


> Why does a commercial space get "better" wiring than a home where people sleep at night?


Here it depends on the type of construction. Combustible (wood) or non combustible (concrete/steel) If a commercial space was all wood, then romex can be used, even for fire alarm wiring.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

CoolWill said:


> We have a code prohibiting NM above suspended ceilings in non-dwelling units.
> 
> 
> 
> Why does a commercial space get "better" wiring than a home where people sleep at night?


This is something I could never figure out. Exit and emergency lighting is required in a restaurant but not in a house. People spend half their time in a house sleeping.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

eddy current said:


> Here it depends on the type of construction. Combustible (wood) or non combustible (concrete/steel) If a commercial space was all wood, then romex can be used, even for fire alarm wiring.


Yeah, I don’t think they have the combustible/non-combustible classifications down south.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

99cents said:


> Yeah, I don’t think they have the combustible/non-combustible classifications down south.


They sorta do. The way I read it though it only works to the 5th floor max, in any cases.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

99cents said:


> This is something I could never figure out. Exit and emergency lighting is required in a restaurant but not in a house. People spend half their time in a house sleeping.


I guess that may be due to larger crowds of people and you also know your house, even in the dark?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Give it a couple of cycles. They have run out of places to stick afci requirements in dwellings now so they will have to invent new pain in new places. 

On the other hand, they could..... put in a code to require replacements of all afci protection every couple three years or so........ you know, keep it maintained and all ... $$$$$


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

CoolWill said:


> I guess that may be due to larger crowds of people and you also know your house, even in the dark?


Maybe but people get disoriented if there is smoke. I think it has more to do with cost. Home builders are incredibly cheap. And interior designers would freak out over exit signs.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I don't think houses need exit signs, but emergency lighting is a good idea. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

B-Nabs said:


> I don't think houses need exit signs, but emergency lighting is a good idea.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


I've done it before for elderly customers , especially ones with indoor stairwells.


It's kinda like selling them a cheap ass standby generator only not...........


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I’ve stayed in a few rental houses and condos in Florida that had EBU’s though no exits if I recall.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

99cents said:


> This is something I could never figure out. Exit and emergency lighting is required in a restaurant but not in a house. People spend half their time in a house sleeping.


I assume it has to do with the type of fire detection, how long it would take someone to get out of the building and if it has public access.

Houses require smoke alarms which are sensitive and react quickly, typically in the first or second stage of a fire before there is even a flame present. Restaurants only require fire detectors like heat detectors or sprinklers. They activate slowly in comparison, usually in the last stage of fire when the room is engulfed in flame and smoke.


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## Superman (Mar 19, 2019)

what are EBU'S?


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> I’ve stayed in a few rental houses and condos in Florida that had EBU’s though no exits if I recall.


Don't all multi family dwellings require exit and emergency lighting?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Superman said:


> what are EBU'S?


Battery back up emergency lights.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Don't all multi family dwellings require exit and emergency lighting?


You know, that's a good question. Most of the multifamily I work on are from the late seventies/early eighties. Most, though not all have emergency and exit lights in the common areas you'd expect. Maybe new construction calls for it in the dwellings themselves. Hadn't thought of that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> I don't think houses need exit signs, but emergency lighting is a good idea.


This is true. The only time I have been able to sell emergency lighting is when installing a generator connection. Some customers will opt to have a battery backup light in the garage, in the basement near the panel, and sometimes the basement stairwell.

The most important place is the main hallway and stairs down from the bedroom level, but no one ever does that.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> You know, that's a good question. Most of the multifamily I work on are from the late seventies/early eighties. Most, though not all have emergency and exit lights in the common areas you'd expect. Maybe new construction calls for it in the dwellings themselves. Hadn't thought of that.


Pretty sure that the emergency /egress lighting is only in the common areas. However, I know that multifamily dwellings also have extra fire alarm & smoke detector requirements too. 

Good questions. Someone had better come along and give us some answers! Lol.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> This is true. The only time I have been able to sell emergency lighting is when installing a generator connection. Some customers will opt to have a battery backup light in the garage, in the basement near the panel, and sometimes the basement stairwell.
> 
> The most important place is the main hallway and stairs down from the bedroom level, but no one ever does that.


Im guessing the emergency lights are because everyone has basements out there. Thats a nice little upsell. Especially if it's all open framing. Very few basements my way. 

Question: Does that mean you put the generator inlet down in the basement too? Most of the ones that I've seen around here are outside only, only a couple were in the garage. I always thought that and inspector fail it due to the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Question: Does that mean you put the generator inlet down in the basement too? Most of the ones that I've seen around here are outside only, only a couple were in the garage. I always thought that and inspector fail it due to the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning.


Oh no, the inlet is always outside. Often times the panel is in the basement, that is why we would put a light in the basement and/or in the stairwell down there.

We would also put a light in the garage so they can see the generator to wheel it out and plug it into the inlet outside.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Oh no, the inlet is always outside. Often times the panel is in the basement, that is why we would put a light in the basement and/or in the stairwell down there.
> 
> We would also put a light in the garage so they can see the generator to wheel it out and plug it into the inlet outside.


Do generator inlets have the same distance requirements from Windows and vent openings that stand by units have? 5ft?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> Do generator inlets have the same distance requirements from Windows and vent openings that stand by units have? 5ft?


Inlets have no requirements as to where they can be located. The cord I provide for my customer is always long enough to allow them to keep the generator away from the house. But there is no code about that since the generator is no different then a television that you plug-in. It’s not enforceable by code. Many of my customers don’t even have the generator at the time that I install the connection system on their house.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> Inlets have no requirements as to where they can be located. The cord I provide for my customer is always long enough to allow them to keep the generator away from the house. But there is no code about that since the generator is no different then a television that you plug-in. It’s not enforceable by code. Many of my customers don’t even have the generator at the time that I install the connection system on their house.


So that would mean that one of those Reliance Transfer Kits with the built in power inlet, that HD sells would be legit to put somewhere inside a house?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> So that would mean that one of those Reliance Transfer Kits with the built in power inlet, that HD sells would be legit to put somewhere inside a house?


As far as the electrical code, yes. There is no issue unless there is a local electrical or fire code amendment restricting someone from running a cord through a doorway or window.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

HackWork said:


> As far as the electrical code, yes. There is no issue unless there is a local electrical or *fire code amendment restricting someone from running a cord through a doorway or window.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> These are the type of questions that I'm trying to get answers for.
> 
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> These are the type of questions that I'm trying to get answers for.
> 
> Is running a cord for a generator through a window, door, garage ect. A coffee violation?


That depends on your exact area. Your state, county, or municipality might have a code prohibiting it. Mine does not.

BTW, extension cords are for temporary use only. In the example that you gave, the fire marshal did not believe that a holiday display that will be there for many months is "temporary", I could agree with that. But a cord being used during a power outage is most certainly temporary.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If your locale adopts the ICC's International Fire Code like it does the NFPA's National Electrical Code, there are restrictions on extension cords etc. in there. Look at 605.5 at this link. 

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/ae8...n 605 - from 2012 international fire code.pdf 

The way I look at it the NEC is more for construction, fixed part of a building or structure, extension cords are contents, and what people do with the contents may be outside the scope of the NEC, but still subject to the fire code.


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## Bcec (Jul 29, 2018)

In Canada we are not allowed to run romex/loomex in a suspended ceiling if that ceiling space is being used as a return air plenum.That is quite often the practice so very rarely do you see romex in a suspended ceiling space.Any plastic sheath cable should be plenum rated.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Personally I would not install NM cable in a commercial building. I do however agree that it's no worse than installing it in a home. It just seems pedestrian to use NM cable in commercial buildings. I also agree that extension cords are for temporary use only.


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## Hoodood1 (Aug 31, 2021)

Not in NYC!


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

bantar1000 said:


> I know this is a frequent issue, but I want to cover my residential electrician butt.
> I have an existing warehouse with a dropped/suspended ceiling with drop in fluorescents. They are gonna turn this warehouse into several offices. Using wooden studs and going around the existing lights so that I can rewrite the light fixtures.
> 
> I know I have to use BX/AC above and going to the drop ceiling, but can I use romex in the walls and whenever I go up use BX? Thanks!


Are there specs on this job? If so....then no..


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

CoolWill said:


> We have a code prohibiting NM above suspended ceilings in non-dwelling units.
> 
> 
> 
> Why does a commercial space get "better" wiring than a home where people sleep at night?


Because they pay engineers to write specs so that hacks won't install romex in their commercial building when no one is looking


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