# LED fluorescent replacement T8, VS. LED fixtures



## CNC (Dec 20, 2008)

SO ill make this post quick, and expand if there is any interest or input:

The passed few years Ive been contacted several times to replace things with LED. everyone is nuts over this LED stuff, until they see prices, but even then, often they still think its the greatest thing ever. Its come a LONG way in the past couple years, heck even the passed year. I use alot of it, some we are forced to use in california due to strict energy codes. 


My hesitation with some stuff, is like anything, its new and unfamiliar, and constantly changing, i cant dim some, they don't work on these switches, blah blah blah. 

But here is my point of this post: 

My biggest hesitation is being able to SERVICE MOST. We do alot of parking lot lighting, and these new heads are great, but i cant service a damn thing on them once they fail, and they do fail. HID lights I stock every part and can rebuild almost any fixture, the old stuff was the best quality and still we service parking lots with 50 year old GE heads that are built like tanks. 

the LED stuff is "throw away" and replace with new, some now have universal drivers. but most are chinese junk. even the expensive lights might not be available in a few years, then what? what happens when one breaks? I know nothing is perfect. 

but to me a medium base light fixture, with a new LED bulb in it, or a mr16 retrofit lamp, leaves options to repair, these sealed "they last forever" style fixtures that fail after a year, and you cant service are junk. which leads me to my point. Im babbling, talking lights does this to me: 

SO: 

we do alot of retrofits, i just looked at a big warehouse, lots of old 8' t12 wraparound strip fixtures. half the building is newer t8 wrap strip fixtures. I tested a few new t8 direct wire, no ballast lamps in the newer t8 fixtures, and they look awesome, you cant tell the difference. 15 watts vs the f32 T8. 

https://www.satco.com/s9722.html these are what I used. they really are great, as long a you swap the shunted tombstones for a non shunted version. 2 bucks or so. 

so i got to looking at other replacement fixtures. lithonia makes a all built in LED version of their popular florescent wraps. the LBL4, built in strip LEDs and a driver. but only 4' versions; i would have to use (2) too replace one 8'

i bought a 4 lamp, lithonia tandem 8' t8 version, took the ballast out, and installed direct wire t8 lamps, remove ballast, and install 4 non-shunted tombstones, (only need one new tomb stone per lamp) sure it takes a few minutes but seems like a better product. 

so: 
fixture tandem 4' (8' total) 4 lamp wrap = $120
lamps 4 @ $15 = $60 (15 w satco) 
4 tombstones: $8
total fixture: $188

energy, 60w total, lamp life 50,000 hours. 
future maintenance is a breeze, no ballast to fail. just stock some lamps and anyone can swap them 
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one 4' lithonia LBL4 wraparound is close to that, maybe a bit less. i would need 2 of them to equal what i just built. http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/lbl+led.html#.V7VSemXovVo
they are 40w units, so it would be 80w for two (to replace 8')

the drivers can still fail, what happens when the LED strips fail that are built into the unit? replace entire fixture?

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Anyone like this option? I like this idea, i just want some peoples opinions, or shoot down my theory, It seems genius to me. I can retrofit all the existing nice newer t8 fixtures, and then install my own custom 8' retrofitted fixtures. 




I want to focus on LED retrofits, but i want to weed out all the CRAP on the market, and work with what I think are the best options. provide my customers with reliable stuff, not just sell them sit garbage that the brochure makes look wonderful. 

There is no much garbage no serviceable crap, that I'm worried once it starts failing and i cant replace, it will just be a PITA later.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We want behind a project and found that the supplier provided 10% spare fixtures as part of the BOM just due to the failure rate.
It was nice to just R&R the fixture and return it in the box it came in.

Also, I try not to specify retrofits and just do the installations. Let the owner and the lighting salesman battle out the failures.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

That lithonia fixture is pretty nice. I haven't really worked with the LED direct replacements but for some reason I really don't like 120 or 277 at the tombstones. Maybe I am just being goofy. 
I am with you on the LED questions though. I used a bunch in houses and finally settled on a 30wat with an LED bulb as the best option.


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