# Ppe sucks



## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

What the F the face mask fogs up, the sweat from my hands fills the gloves, the suit is HOT, ya this is safe. I remember when, hahahah bare handed in the rain I'll do it get out of the way!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

The loss of tactility is, in of itself, a safety factor

But it beats the potential alternative

~CS~


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

"The suit is hot"??? Those look like regular Nomex coveralls... Try a 40 cal suit... If don't have the fan in the hood, you'll be ordering it after you use it once...


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

deanos said:


> What the F the face mask fogs up, the sweat from my hands fills the gloves, the suit is HOT, ya this is safe. I remember when, hahahah bare handed in the rain I'll do it get out of the way!


Don't you have any of the anti-fogging wipes?


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

deanos said:


> What the F the face mask fogs up, the sweat from my hands fills the gloves, the suit is HOT, ya this is safe. I remember when, hahahah bare handed in the rain I'll do it get out of the way!


Exactly why I don't wear it.

Imo, in most cases the ppe creates more of a hazard. I feel safer doing it without.

If I were doing what your picture shows, the only ppe I would have used is gloves. The rest is unnecessary, imo.


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

That service is horrible looking, straps are uneven


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> Exactly why I don't wear it.
> 
> Imo, in most cases the ppe creates more of a hazard. I feel safer doing it without.
> 
> If I were doing what your picture shows, the only ppe I would have used is gloves. The rest is unnecessary, imo.


So you're saying eyeballs are less important than fingers?


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

99cents said:


> So you're saying eyeballs are less important than fingers?


Is the wire gonna jump up and poke me in the eye?

I would wear gloves due to the possible shock hazard, which is a real issue.

Arc flash ppe isn't a concern of mine. I don't feel arc flash is a real concern, particularly in the situation the op posted.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

EBFD6 said:


> Exactly why I don't wear it.
> 
> Imo, in most cases the ppe creates more of a hazard. I feel safer doing it without.
> 
> If I were doing what your picture shows, the only ppe I would have used is gloves. The rest is unnecessary, imo.


You use Gloves?:no:




:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jett95 said:


> That service is horrible looking, straps are uneven



I think that's the old one...:laughing:


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> You use Gloves?:no:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, in the past, no.

I've never done a residential service for an employer. When I used to do sidework I did a few service changes. I didn't have gloves and always bare handed them. Now, if I had to do one, I would use gloves because I have them supplied by my employer. However, I wouldn't hesitate to do it bare handed if I had to either.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I was at the Bussmann lab in St. Louis. They created a 10,000 amp dead short through welding cable. It exploded. Your face wouldn't stand a chance. What's your available fault current at that service connection? I don't know and you don't know. Even at 5K you would end up looking like Freddy Krueger.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

99cents said:


> I was at the Bussmann lab in St. Louis. They created a 10,000 amp dead short through welding cable. It exploded. Your face wouldn't stand a chance. What's your available fault current at that service connection? I don't know and you don't know. Even at 5K you would end up looking like Freddy Krueger.


That's true, but will that face shield stop the blast? I say no and if anything you would have all that plastic melted to your face.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> That's true, but will that face shield stop the blast? I say no and if anything you would have all that plastic melted to your face.


Like any PPE, it doesn't prevent anything, it just slows it down. The shield will stop aluminum splatter. I don't think melting is a concern. If the shield is tinted it will reduce the amount of light entering the eyes. Personally, I would wear it but I don't do live service connections anyway.


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## butcher733 (Aug 4, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> I don't feel arc flash is a real concern


If you would like I could introduce you to a couple people who have the scars to change your mind. One of the people who encouraged me to get into the trade has a permanently disfigured face and has to wear sunglasses all the time.


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## jmoon (Dec 5, 2013)

Where's your harness


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

A few moments of discomfort are much better than a life of pain and disability.

We all have done dumb things and got away with it harmlessly, but some day our luck may run out. Your eyes are your most important tool and if injured rarely return to their original condition. 

Cleaning the face shield lens with Windex will lessen fogging.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Ladder looks good. Don't even need gloves.

Shame the poco won't let me do it any more. Oh well I had at least 20 years where I could get stuff done.

I seen a guy siding a house the other day. Someone had climbed to the roof (or probably a bucket) and fastened a line up there some how. Then the guy is in a harness strapped to that. He/she is about 6 feet off the ground on a super fancy scaffold. :blink:

Oh well no one dies I guess.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

http://www.salisburybyhoneywell.com...500_series_faceshields&cat=HLS-HES&pid=aflens

Instead of complaining, try to do something about it.


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

deanos said:


> What the F the face mask fogs up, the sweat from my hands fills the gloves, the suit is HOT, ya this is safe. I remember when, hahahah bare handed in the rain I'll do it get out of the way!


 
Turn off the power and you wouldn't need to wear it. In Washington, we'd have to tie off too.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

sparky970 said:


> Turn off the power and you wouldn't need to wear it. In Washington, we'd have to tie off too.



Tie off what?


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> Tie off what?


 
Fall protection at 4'. WAC rule if you don't have 3 points of contact.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

sparky970 said:


> Fall protection at 4'. WAC rule if you don't have 3 points of contact.


That's why the siding guy was tied off? Times they are a changing.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

glen1971 said:


> "The suit is hot"??? Those look like regular Nomex coveralls... Try a 40 cal suit... If don't have the fan in the hood, you'll be ordering it after you use it once...


youv'e got that right
but what gets me more hotter under the collar is some turd looking over your shoulder who shouldn't even be there.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

I think they really dropped the ball not making blowers a standard package with the face shields, or else do whatever they have to in order to make them not fog.

Not being able to see what you're doing while wearing correct PPE is definitely worse than working without the PPE.

I definitely prefer the coat-style PPE over the jacket-and-pants style. Not only is it a whole lot easier to put on, but because it's not so form-fitting it's cooler and easier to work in.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Big John said:


> I think they really dropped the ball not making blowers a standard package with the face shields, or else do whatever they have to in order to make them not fog.
> 
> Not being able to see what you're doing while wearing correct PPE is definitely worse than working without the PPE.
> 
> I definitely prefer the coat-style PPE over the jacket-and-pants style. Not only is it a whole lot easier to put on, but because it's not so form-fitting it's cooler and easier to work in.


Except when you crouch down and lift your skirt only to fry your gonads.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Yeah, PPE is cumbersome and annoying but it sure beats flash burn injuries.


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## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

EBFD6 said:


> Is the wire gonna jump up and poke me in the eye? I would wear gloves due to the possible shock hazard, which is a real issue. Arc flash ppe isn't a concern of mine. I don't feel arc flash is a real concern, particularly in the situation the op posted.


Actually had wires folded over a conduit going into a transfer switch and they came loose and popped me in the eye. Ended up having a scratched cornea and that will never happen again. I will always wear safety glasses. Always


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> That's true, but will that face shield stop the blast? I say no and if anything you would have all that plastic melted to your face.


 If it's the right ATPV it definitely will stop the blast. That's the whole point: It's designed and tested to withstand an exposure to that amount of thermal energy without failing.

That said, I've seen a video, and I'll see if I can find it, where a flash test was performed with the grossly incorrect face-shield and it absolutely did melt it into a gooey mess.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I had a guy on my crew who complained incessantly about wearing PPE. His complaint one day was how uncomfortable the safety harness was to wear. The conversation went like this.....

1st guy.........."I hate wearing these things, can't stand putting them on 'cause they're so uncomfortable"

2nd guy on crew.........Yeah? How uncomfortable is a wheelchair??

1st guy walked away without a word to say and I just stood there laughing.

Moral of the story, the PPE may be uncomfortable but the years of dealing with the injuries that they could have prevented are likely to be WAY worse.


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

jett95 said:


> That service is horrible looking, straps are uneven


If you changed a service with uneven straps would you space the new ones evenly and caulk the holes or put new where the old were?


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

Rollie73 said:


> Moral of the story, the PPE may be uncomfortable but the years of dealing with the injuries that they could have prevented are likely to be WAY worse.


Some of you guys are so paranoid. Life is full of danger. You can't go thru life worrying about every little thing. Do accidents happen? Sure, but you need to look at the odds. 

Years of dealing with uncomfortable ppe to mitigate the small chance of having an accident is unnecessary. 

Your odds of winning the lottery are better than your odds of having an arc flash incident that will have any significant effect.

For every electrician that is injured in an arc flash incident there are thousands of electricians that will work their entire career without a serious incident. The odds are against having an incident. It's not something I'm even remotely concerned about. In my opinion you actually increase your odds of having an arc flash incident by wearing ppe. The loss of dexterity and vision/hearing impairment caused by the ppe makes it more probable that something will happen. I actually feel safer not wearing the ppe because I can see and feel what I'm doing and can hear what is going on around me.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> Some of you guys are so paranoid. Life is full of danger. You can't go thru life worrying about every little thing. Do accidents happen? Sure, but you need to look at the odds.
> 
> Years of dealing with uncomfortable ppe to mitigate the small chance of having an accident is unnecessary.
> 
> ...


:sleep1::sleep1:


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

MTW said:


> :sleep1::sleep1:


If you're so tired you should go to bed. Accidents happen when you're tired and we all know you can never be too safe. Make sure to wear your FR rated pj's, you never know when the mattress might spontaneously combust.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

EBFD6 said:


> Some of you guys are so paranoid. Life is full of danger. You can't go thru life worrying about every little thing. Do accidents happen? Sure, but you need to look at the odds.
> 
> Years of dealing with uncomfortable ppe to mitigate the small chance of having an accident is unnecessary.
> 
> ...


I guess you don't mind if your face looks like a plate of spaghetti. Me, I'm too pretty to risk it.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

Wirenuting said:


> Don't you have any of the anti-fogging wipes?


You can also use Johnsons baby shampoo on the inside. Used to use it while playing paintball and it lasted for days.

Simply spread a drop or two around the inside of the mask and buff it till its clear again. :thumbsup:


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## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

The blower is a great idea thanks for the info, other than that is every sparky an a$$h0l3 ? I think it's a pre requisite when entering the trade. The post was just something to look at not pick apart like everything on this site, Jesus relax... Deep breaths. Goose frabba!hahahhahahahhah


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## deanos (Nov 1, 2012)

And yes that's the old service.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

99cents said:


> I was at the Bussmann lab in St. Louis. They created a 10,000 amp dead short through welding cable. It exploded. Your face wouldn't stand a chance. What's your available fault current at that service connection? I don't know and you don't know. Even at 5K you would end up looking like Freddy Krueger.


Somewhere along the way to being a sparky, they really should create this scenario for us, maybe the apprenticeship courses.

Folks that are witness to electrical explosions always seem to say the same thing _'oh gee, didn't think it would be that bad_'..... 

~CS~


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

No fog wipes work well, these are for ski goggles and work great. 

http://www.rei.com/product/435490/smith-no-fog-cloth


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Somewhere along the way to being a sparky, they really should create this scenario for us, maybe the apprenticeship courses.
> 
> Folks that are witness to electrical explosions always seem to say the same thing _'oh gee, didn't think it would be that bad_'.....
> 
> ~CS~


It's a very impressive facility. They generate their own power because they can't get enough off the grid. They can create a 300KA fault at 600V for testing purposes.


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## BlackHowling (Feb 27, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> Some of you guys are so paranoid. Life is full of danger. You can't go thru life worrying about every little thing. Do accidents happen? Sure, but you need to look at the odds. Years of dealing with uncomfortable ppe to mitigate the small chance of having an accident is unnecessary. Your odds of winning the lottery are better than your odds of having an arc flash incident that will have any significant effect. For every electrician that is injured in an arc flash incident there are thousands of electricians that will work their entire career without a serious incident. The odds are against having an incident. It's not something I'm even remotely concerned about. In my opinion you actually increase your odds of having an arc flash incident by wearing ppe. The loss of dexterity and vision/hearing impairment caused by the ppe makes it more probable that something will happen. I actually feel safer not wearing the ppe because I can see and feel what I'm doing and can hear what is going on around me.


Arc flash incident " one in thousands" 1:999999
Winning lotto is 1:28.6 million for the lottery here. Quiet a big difference


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

EBFD6 said:


> Some of you guys are so paranoid. Life is full of danger. You can't go thru life worrying about every little thing. Do accidents happen? Sure, but you need to look at the odds.
> 
> Years of dealing with uncomfortable ppe to mitigate the small chance of having an accident is unnecessary.
> 
> ...


Worked with a guy like this. I'm not sure if his widow has remarried yet or not


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

99cents said:


> I was at the Bussmann lab in St. Louis. They created a 10,000 amp dead short through welding cable. It exploded. Your face wouldn't stand a chance. What's your available fault current at that service connection? I don't know and you don't know. Even at 5K you would end up looking like Freddy Krueger.


Been to the same place a few years back. The stuff exploding when subjected to fault values above ratings is impressive to say the least.

Pete


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

It can happen anytime, and not even be the fault of the sparky(s) on the job

Worse 5 minutes of my life was wondering if i was permanently blind , just for turning on equipment that decided to go south overnight _(was on the day before)_

While i wouldn't say you need to wear PPE pajamas to bed, I would say cultivating some awareness of what sort of AIC or Inrush you're playing with

Seems a lot of us blow that off, because we either can't or don't do the math, so i keep it simple...

How close is the Xformer? Motor? ....How big? 

~CS~


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## Deanos01 (Feb 19, 2014)

I ALLWAYS do work neat and to code, as you can see I also try to follow the rules when ppe is concerned. The inspector made me go back and pound the ground rods down 1/2 inch !!!!! These guys realize how much it cost me to drive back for something stupid?? I can't stand some inspectors....


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## ecelectric (Mar 27, 2009)

I work in substations for a utility and we have a lot of nasty indoor stations , I was opening a set of disconnects on a 4kv circuit. Long story short I opened the wrong set which was carrying load . I had on a 55calorie suit and I was on the end of a 3 foot stick , there wasn't much left of the suit but I walked away with only minor burns to my face . Once all the data was collected from the relays they said the whole event lasted 2.2 seconds before the transformer breakers opened up and killed the bus . Although only two seconds long it was enough to splatter copper all over my suit and shield . After that I don't complain about wearing my suit . Ventilators do help though .


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## daks (Jan 16, 2013)

I've always wondered why I have not seen one of the auto-darkening lenses that the welders use made available for us. I don't trust the plastic face shields and anyone who has seen even a small arc flash knows your eyes are dazzled for a while. Being of fire in a small service room is bad enough, not knowing where to go and get out, drop and roll in a live service room on while on fire would be pure hell.


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## Deanos01 (Feb 19, 2014)

ecelectric said:


> I work in substations for a utility and we have a lot of nasty indoor stations , I was opening a set of disconnects on a 4kv circuit. Long story short I opened the wrong set which was carrying load . I had on a 55calorie suit and I was on the end of a 3 foot stick , there wasn't much left of the suit but I walked away with only minor burns to my face . Once all the data was collected from the relays they said the whole event lasted 2.2 seconds before the transformer breakers opened up and killed the bus . Although only two seconds long it was enough to splatter copper all over my suit and shield . After that I don't complain about wearing my suit . Ventilators do help though .


 PERFECT example of ppe saving you! It sucks to have to wear it but it can save your life! I also work in a large facility and work on gear from the 1950s scary is an understatement..


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## Deanos01 (Feb 19, 2014)

*HA*

And wow we made it to three pages!


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

daks said:


> I've always wondered why I have not seen one of the auto-darkening lenses that the welders use made available for us. I don't trust the plastic face shields and anyone who has seen even a small arc flash knows your eyes are dazzled for a while. Being of fire in a small service room is bad enough, not knowing where to go and get out, drop and roll in a live service room on while on fire would be pure hell.


 Ditto


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

daks said:


> I've always wondered why I have not seen one of the auto-darkening lenses that the welders use made available for us. I don't trust the plastic face shields and anyone who has seen even a small arc flash knows your eyes are dazzled for a while. Being of fire in a small service room is bad enough, not knowing where to go and get out, drop and roll in a live service room on while on fire would be pure hell.


Many designs have been tested, problem is they don't darken fast enough to be effective, thats why any arc rated face shield will have some tint to it.


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## gesparky221 (Nov 30, 2007)

I didnt care for all the arc flash gear either until I was right in the middle of one. Closed a gang operated air break switch at 69KV into a transformer fault. The other guys out in the parking lot said it looked like noon at 11 pm. Glad I had the suit on. There was splatter everywhere.


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## MWayne (Nov 8, 2010)

There's an app for arc fault calculations from Cooper -Bussman:










Looks like an older neighborhood so I omitted primary protection.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Remember, it's all fun and games till somebody gets their face melted. lol


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