# This Monf***ingstrostity



## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

So, I came across this at a diner that I ate at, the diner is connected to a car parts factory, so it’s going to have a heavy load. In this photo, 7,200/12,470Y goes into a set of cutouts, then goes into the 3phase bank of transformers, the transformers have 2 HV on top and only 2 secondary bushings, and the secondary side is Wye also.










In this photo, there are 7 total service entrances with only 3 wires each, wouldn’t that leave out the neutral wire for 3 phases, or could they have just 2 wires of 3 phases with one neutral? And the smaller service entrance is for the CTs on the line from the transformers, going to a meter.











In this photo, this is the cable tray, nothing spectacular...😕











In this photo, there is a couple things going on here... in the back corner, you can see four 3” RGC emerging from underground, and terminating at a bus duct. Now seeing as there is a bus duct, I’m assuming that there is an electrical room behind that wall, maybe containing a step down transformer, distribution transformer, and idk if you could see it but on the closest of the 4 conduits, there is a single wire that comes from the transformers and is taped to another wire and is cut before it even gets to the terminals for the bus duct, and the 3 conduits to the left are going into a jbox and they go inside to the electrical room. Then the final conduit in the bottom left on the wall is the conduit for the meter from the CTs.










In this photo, I zoomed in the picture to where you can somewhat see where the cable is cut and taped to the closest cable right before the terminal for the bus duct.I circled the spot to look in










in this photo, you can see in the background a second set of a 3 phase transformer bank up on the H frame structure, they are not regulators, they are indeed transformers, in a Y/Y configuration, and since this is a factory, I was thinking it could be stepping the voltage down to 4,160 maybe? Would that be it? But behind the last pole, in the brick wall, (I couldn’t get it in the shot) there are capped conduits that stub out of the building, and if you look at the pic below this one you will see the set of switches that are operated at the bottom of the last pole. The switches have had the HV cable cut off at the bottom of the set of fuses. ( the set of switches are at the very top and the fuses are right below

















So could the conduit stubs be there from when they had a high voltage step down transformer inside or switchgear for 4,160? You can clearly tell that something has been removed from this part, there is cut conduit and capped, with cement, and then the wires are cut coming from the fuses. Could this be a 4160 setup? And what’s going on with the 3 wire service entrances only using 2 of 3 phases??


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

So, how was the food at the diner


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Around here, a single phase pot of any size with 2 secondary bushings is either 277 or 2400. Considering the age of the installation, it could be either one. 

The pots on the H frame could be a separate service and may have been abandoned. It's also possible that they are current-limiting reactors. 

Given its age, there's a good chance it's 3Ø 3 wire, maybe grounded B or ungrounded. 

Either way, it's more of a hacked up mess that anything else.........


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

wcord said:


> So, how was the food at the diner


Not bad, definitely recommend hocking hills diner in Logan Ohio,


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

micromind said:


> Around here, a single phase pot of any size with 2 secondary bushings is either 277 or 2400. Considering the age of the installation, it could be either one.
> 
> The pots on the H frame could be a separate service and may have been abandoned. It's also possible that they are current-limiting reactors.
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing, a 460 or 575 B grounded Delta, or a floating Delta. Last place I worked had 3 plants on floating Deltas.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

To me it looks like a 4160 that's been cut free (had its own CT's) and a 480Y with one phase per conduit


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

We had 12 services like that at the mine. Be thankful you do not have a key to the gate. (authorized personnel) Notice that the pots are elevated but no containment field. Wanna get close enough for the PCB reading?

"It was state of the art,,,,,,, this morning"

Does your lady have issues with you doing stuff like this when your out? Mine does


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

micromind said:


> Around here, a single phase pot of any size with 2 secondary bushings is either 277 or 2400. Considering the age of the installation, it could be either one.


Do you think they had unshielded cable back when this was built?


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

SWDweller said:


> Does your lady have issues with you doing stuff like this when your out? Mine does


Lol, I was thinking of asking the same thing. My wife just rolls here eyes. "OK, just don't take too long. Hhhhhhhh"


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Lol, I was thinking of asking the same thing. My wife just rolls here eyes. "OK, just don't take too long. Hhhhhhhh"


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

SWDweller said:


> We had 12 services like that at the mine. Be thankful you do not have a key to the gate. (authorized personnel) Notice that the pots are elevated but no containment field. Wanna get close enough for the PCB reading?
> 
> "It was state of the art,,,,,,, this morning"
> 
> Does your lady have issues with you doing stuff like this when your out? Mine does


She has no problem with me doing this, hell, she probably knows half the stuff I know when I ramble about it when we are together,


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

I work on a couple of sites that look like that. Sorry I didn't take any pictures. On one, the customer owns the 2400v un-grounded Delta primary distribution and our three tubs give us 480v un-grounded Delta. There are (12) 120 volt type A lamps wired in series/parallel as a ground fault indicator connected to the 480v circuit. All constructed some time in the '50s. 
On another site we also have installed a few custom built pad mounted transformers with customer owned 26kv un-grounded delta primaries to 480v un-grounded delta secondaries. Eaton made some custom built ground fault indicators for our new MCCs for these, no 120v type A lamps in the new installations.
These un-grounded type of services are designed/installed where continuous processes are critical. First short to ground anywhere on the plant only sets off an alarm and doesn't blow any fuses or trip any circuit breakers or shutting down a continuous process. It allows for clearing of belts and crushers for an orderly manual shutdown after an alarm is sensed..


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> Do you think they had unshielded cable back when this was built?


I've worked with about a half-dozen 4160 systems that were installed in the 50s and 60s that used unshielded 5KV cable. 

Hard to say how old that one is though.


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## cuba_pete (Dec 8, 2011)

Metersocket648 said:


> She has no problem with me doing this, hell, she probably knows half the stuff I know when I ramble about it when we are together,


My wife seems me pulling out my phone and taking a photo of some random fixture, conduit, box, etc. and just keeps walking..."what are you doing? you're not working!"...and I'm like SOMEONE COULD DIE!!!


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

micromind said:


> I've worked with about a half-dozen 4160 systems that were installed in the 50s and 60s that used unshielded 5KV cable.
> 
> Hard to say how old that one is though.


I didn't know unshielded cable was that old.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

joe-nwt said:


> I didn't know unshielded cable was that old.


Lol.....a lot of it should be replaced, sometimes I'll see cracks in the insulation; I'd rather not be too close when the electrons decide to leave all at once.........


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