# Commercial grade recepticals



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Again, sure, why not.

I'm a bit confused by what you are calling a "standard" receptacle and otherwise.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

J-wire said:


> I'm wiring a new restaurant. It's all roughed in with mc cable. I am now on the finish stage of the job. I installed all 20 rated receptacles in the kitchen and bar area. Im installing standard 15/20 amp receptacles (ones that you would use in residential) in the dining and other areas of the restaurant. Is it to code for me to be able to use these standard receptacles a commercial space?


only if it is being done by a licensed electrician


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*no zone*



J-wire said:


> I'm wiring a new restaurant. It's all roughed in with mc cable. I am now on the finish stage of the job. I installed all 20 rated receptacles in the kitchen and bar area. Im installing standard 15/20 amp receptacles (ones that you would use in residential) in the dining and other areas of the restaurant. Is it to code for me to be able to use these standard receptacles a commercial space?


I wouldn't do that. If the AHJ gets hold of that you could be fined or sentenced to jail time for residential rec. in a commercial setting.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

are they resi or just 15 amp spec grade outlets?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Unless they are dedicated circuits you can use the $0.69 - 15 amp duplexes from home depot. They may not last long but they meet the code. 

I would go with a spec grade receptacle.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Get some cr15/cr20 outlets and install them. They don't cost much.


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Receptacle grades such as "specification" or "commercial" are marketing terms. Underwriters Labs, for one, has a standard for receptacles that most receptacles must meet, including the 69 cent variety.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I would put in whatever was specced in the bid. If the customer wanted as cheap as he could get that's what I'd give him. And it's legal. I'm still not sure how much better the commercial grade are over basic devices. Look how long residential receptacles last and some of them, IE: the bath, get a lot more use than many commercial receptacles.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

Tom45acp said:


> Receptacle grades such as "specification" or "commercial" are marketing terms. Underwriters Labs, for one, has a standard for receptacles that most receptacles must meet, including the 69 cent variety.


Ok great. This helps. I didn't want to have to replace them. I knew that no one would be plugging in anything more than a vacuum cleaner in them. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't violating and codes? Thanks.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Tom45acp said:


> Receptacle grades such as "specification" or "commercial" are marketing terms. Underwriters Labs, for one, has a standard for receptacles that most receptacles must meet, including the 69 cent variety.


So are you saying that you think a spec grade receptacle is made to the same standard as a cheapo receptacle? And that they will perform the same long term? Seriously?


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> I would put in whatever was specced in the bid. If the customer wanted as cheap as he could get that's what I'd give him. And it's legal. I'm still not sure how much better the commercial grade are over basic devices. Look how long residential receptacles last and some of them, IE: the bath, get a lot more use than many commercial receptacles.


Yes your absolutely right. I believe they will last. I didn't want to spend the extra money on the 20 amp receptacle in the areas that really didn't need them, ie dining room, foyer, hall, even the managers office. 
I did know that the code allows standard receptacles to be installed on 15 or 20 amp circuits. I just wasn't sure about the receptacle grade.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

There isn't a required grade of receptacle besides hospital grade for certain locations as far as I know. There are amperage, weather and tamper requirements to keep in mind though.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> There isn't a required grade of receptacle besides hospital grade for certain locations as far as I know. There are amperage, weather and tamper requirements to keep in mind though.


Right. I know about those. Good to know. 
So the actual 20 amp receptacle with the slotted neutral. Is only installed through preference?


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> There isn't a required grade of receptacle besides hospital grade for certain locations as far as I know. There are amperage, weather and tamper requirements to keep in mind though.


Thanks for the input. That's helpful.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

The spec grade ones are probably better. But how much?


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> The spec grade ones are probably better. But how much?


Exactly! How much better? Not $1.50 more better.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> The spec grade ones are probably better. But how much?


About 50 cents. They don't seem to get loose like a $5 crack whore.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

J-wire said:


> Exactly! How much better? Not $1.50 more better.


Maybe they are $1.50 better? That's not a whole lot of money in the scheme of things if the customer is paying for it.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

knowshorts said:


> About 50 cents. They don't seem to get loose like a $5 crack whore.


Lol. Nice.


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

nitro71 said:


> Maybe they are $1.50 better? That's not a whole lot of money in the scheme of things if the customer is paying for it.


But they are not paying for them. That's why they are not getting them.


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> So are you saying that you think a spec grade receptacle is made to the same standard as a cheapo receptacle? And that they will perform the same long term? Seriously?


They all meet the same minimum safety standard such as UL's Receptacles (RTDV). Never said anything else, seriously.

Similar thing comes up when dealing with load centers(a marketing term) & panelboards. They both meet the same safety standard, but I rarely use a load center on anything other than residential work.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Tom45acp said:


> They all meet the same minimum safety standard such as UL's Receptacles (RTDV). * Never said anything else, seriously.*


OK. That's just not how your post read. 
You made it seem like spec grade "marketing" was just that.


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> OK. That's just not how your post read.
> You made it seem like spec grade "marketing" was just that.


Well. I guess in a way, using a term like "specification grade" is marketing plain & simple. Since there is no clear definition of what spec grade is, it means different things to different people and some might think they are getting a lot more than they really are. I've also come across receptacles marketed as commercial and some as industrial. I'm sure that they were better than the 69 centers, but just how much better, I couldn't say. I've run across one brand that had "specification grade" stamped into the yoke but as far as I could tell, it was no better than their cheapest receptacle.

Now, would someone please help me get down off my soapbox?


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

I think you pretty much summed it up with that. Any receptacle you buy in the US that is marked UL will be rated for 15 and 20 amps. 
Commercial and industrial grade receptacles would be going above and beyond. I would think it would be a good idea to install them in say a commercial kitchen. Where you would have some continuous duty loads.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> The spec grade ones are probably better. But how much?


The better devices have the correct method of speed wiring. They have a pressure plate type terminal, that is tightened by the terminal screws. The low priced device has the friction type terminal, known as back stab termination. There's very little contact with the conductor. Low end devices are fine if properly terminated.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Same same, but tamper resistant breakers look funny.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

You are installing gfci's right?


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## J-wire (Mar 11, 2012)

jbfan said:


> You are installing gfci's right?


In the kitchen. Of course.


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

I never install .58 cent receptacles any more. the plastic around the ground pin breaks off, and the customers don't like that very much.

The spec grade outlets do last longer, and the 20amp ones are much more stout.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> So are you saying that you think a spec grade receptacle is made to the same standard as a cheapo receptacle? And that they will perform the same long term? Seriously?



Yes and no. 
I made a topic about this a while back. 
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/definition-spec-grade-14835/

"commercial grade, spec grade" etc are marketing terms. They maybe built sturdier than their cheapest variety, but there is no standardized performance criteria and its up to each manufacturer.

The Leviton "spec grade" is not really a Federal Specifications approved.
Real ones have F(UL)S stamped on it. If the bid specifications demand specific component certification such as federal spec grade on wiring devices, then you have to use them even if not required by code.
http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2005/01/receptacle-grades-what-do-they-mean/


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## Manbearpig (Dec 15, 2011)

Personally I prefer the higher grade recepticles when terminating stranded wire, only because the pressure plate provides a much better connection, other than that, it depends on the use and the budget.:thumbsup:


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

A dollar per receptacle is cheap when you figure your bid was 75 per receptacle. 76 per receptacle won't break your customer. I don't like the terms commercial use and residential use. Light duty and heavy duty are more accurate. A 69 cent receptacle will be fine sitting behind a clock in a department store but won't hold up as a kitchen counter receptacle in a 1 bedroom house


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

J-wire said:


> I'm wiring a new restaurant. It's all roughed in with mc cable. I am now on the finish stage of the job. I installed all 20 rated receptacles in the kitchen and bar area. Im installing standard 15/20 amp receptacles (ones that you would use in residential) in the dining and other areas of the restaurant. Is it to code for me to be able to use these standard receptacles a commercial space?


You have already done it so the question is moot...isn't it? If you have a question mark in your mind, the time to ask the question is before you do it.


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