# Staple guns



## BurtiElectric (Jan 11, 2011)

:no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I've been using a T75 for years. You have to get special staples to be legally stapling NM.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

You are going to crawl all the way into a hot attic with that gun and a few clips, thinking you are going to be out of there in a jiff. You will get 1 good staple in and you will think... this is awesome, then it will jam, you will promptly run out of staples trying to get the damn thing to shoot again, you say FK it, and leave the mess of staples, the gun and all your patience, in the attic, and go on about your day like that never happened.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

TOOL_5150 said:


> You are going to crawl all the way into a hot attic with that gun and a few clips, thinking you are going to be out of there in a jiff. You will get 1 good staple in and you will think... this is awesome, then it will jam, you will promptly run out of staples trying to get the damn thing to shoot again, you say FK it, and leave the mess of staples, the gun and all your patience, in the attic, and go on about your day like that never happened.



Never had one jam. Sorry.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

We use one when stapling to running boards. They seem to bite better than trying to pound regular staples where you don't have a framing member right above where you are stapling. Ours jams regularly though, but it beats a sharp stick to the eye.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I use one for stapling on the web of I-joists. About the only time I use it, though.


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

Mwchavis said:


> I just wanted to know if anyone's Using staple guns for stapling nm in residential applications??? I personally hate nailing wire!!! I purchased a Arrow T-75 staple gun a few weeks ago . Shoots a staple 5/8 inches long and 9/16 inches wide. Says it is recommended for nm sheathed cable... What y'all think??


i use an Acme T-75A stapler with T-75A staples.
it's fast, and works pretty well....
it doesn't sink the staples all the way down to the romex, so
you don't cut thru anything... i haven't had any jamming yet.

i still can't look at a product by a company called Acme without
thinking of roadrunner cartoons, however.

from the website:
"Incredible Savings Using the Acme 75A Stapling System 
for NM-B Wires

Model 75A stapler & UL listed staples comply with NEC 2005
code 334.30 that reads in part "nonmetallic-sheathed cable 
shall be secured by staples designed and installed so as not 
to damage the cable."

UL Listed

Peace of mind knowing you’re using UL Listed products for 
NM 14/2, 14/3, 12/2, 12/3, 10/3, Twin 14/2 and Twin 12/2

Low Price

As much as 40% below the competition

Fewer Staples Required

Unique “Single staple installation” for NM 
14/2 and 12/2 uses 50% fewer staples

Shorter Installs

Reduce staple installation time by more than 300%

Insulated vs. 
Non-insulated Staples

Many local codes permit use of UL Listed non-insulated 
staples driven by staple guns as an alternative to 
hammer-in insulated staples, because of the gun’s controlled 
staple driving depth. NO DAMAGE TO THE WIRE!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I've been using a T75 for years. You have to get special staples to be legally stapling NM.


You need this if working in Massachusetts or New Hampshire insulated staple gun.http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-Wire-Cable-Staple-T72/dp/B000KLTELK





























*Arrow 721168 7/8-inch High and 31/64-...*​ All Media (1)Images (1)


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

Is it that hard to nail two 1" nails in cleanly without hitting the wire?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I have to be honest... I have a couple of these staple guns but I seldom use them. 

There's no way I would entertain using one in place of real staples and a real hammer but suit yourself.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

k_buz said:


> Is it that hard to nail two 1" nails in cleanly without hitting the wire?


I like the real staples and a hammer.

The staple gun is okay but I'm just to lazy dig it out of the truck and it is a PITA ordering the staple gun staples on-line all the time when you can just buy a bucket of regular ones while you're at the supply house.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Never had one jam. Sorry.


Sorry ...... never?

Pushing the needle but not pegging it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> You need this if working in Massachusetts or New Hampshire insulated staple gun.http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-Wire-Cable-Staple-T72/dp/B000KLTELK


:no::no:

Do you own a code book?:laughing:

MA amendments 


> Where
> staples are used for cable sizes smaller than three 8 AWG conductors, they shall be of the
> insulated type, *or listed noninsulated staples driven by staple guns shall be permitted.*


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You need this if working in Massachusetts or New Hampshire insulated staple gun.http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-Wire-Cable-Staple-T72/dp/B000KLTELK
> 
> *Arrow 721168 7/8-inch High and 31/64-...*​ All Media (1)Images (1)


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> :no::no:
> 
> Do you own a code book?:laughing:
> 
> MA amendments


That was my first thought. :laughing:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

We don't see many people using a staple gun in my area.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Sorry ...... never?
> 
> Pushing the needle but not pegging it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Staple guns are for guys who believe pocket protectors make them look cool.. :laughing:

Hammer and staples are what I use and they are faster than lugging around a staple gun.. IMO

I can get (2) #14 NM under one staple using old school technology.. :thumbup:

I can also use my lineman's to drive in a staple where a staple gun would not fit..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> Staple guns are for guys who believe pocket protectors make them look cool.. :laughing:
> 
> Hammer and staples are what I use and they are faster than lugging around a staple gun.. IMO
> 
> ...



Sorry. In the time it takes you to dig out a staple, I'm done.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Sorry. In the time it takes you to dig out a staple, I'm done.


I carry insulated staples in my right hand holding the hammer.. using the left hand to pull the cable tight.. 

It works well and I never get a jam or run out of staples..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> :no::no:
> 
> Do you own a code book?:laughing:
> 
> MA amendments


Yes in fact "Journeyman":laughing:

Why don't you read my posts 

#1 i said if you are going to use a staple gun then use the one that is approved for mass which those are insulated staples 

#2 i also said i use a hammer and reg staples the insulated type.




HARRY304E said:


> I like the real staples and a hammer.
> 
> The staple gun is okay but I'm just to lazy dig it out of the truck and it is a PITA ordering the staple gun staples on-line all the time when you can just buy a bucket of regular ones while you're at the supply house.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

B4T said:


> I can get (2) #14 NM under one staple using old school technology.. :thumbup:


You can't do that unless the staple's listed for it. The standard ½" staple isn't rated for more than one conductor. What's the old school secret? Or would you have to kill me if you told me!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Sorry. In the time it takes you to dig out a staple, I'm done.


 
I worked for a small contractor, we were doing track homes and town houses, I used one extensively, made for quick work of securing NM,


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

wendon said:


> You can't do that unless the staple's listed for it. The standard ½" staple isn't rated for more than one conductor. What's the old school secret? Or would you have to kill me if you told me!


These staples are 1" long and have no trouble holding (2) #14.. no listing on the 5 gal. pail..

The old school secret is a hammer.. :thumbup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

B4T said:


> These staples are 1" long and have no trouble holding (2) #14.. no listing on the 5 gal. pail..
> 
> The old school secret is a hammer.. :thumbup:


And as my grandmother use to say

"That is why there is chocolate milk and white milk" 

Or as my mother use to say

“How boring would this place be if we all liked the same things”

EVERYONE LIKES SOMETHING DIFFERENT


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

B4T said:


> These staples are 1" long and have no trouble holding (2) #14.. no listing on the 5 gal. pail..
> 
> The old school secret is a hammer.. :thumbup:


I guess I'm still old school then. I've looked at those staple guns but haven't bought one yet. Around here, the only ones I've seen are at Menard's. I like to purchase as much as I can from my local supplier. My pouch is already overloaded!!!


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Hammer and staples here. Inspectors are just beginning to enforce the 2 wire rule in my area. PITA using those 1.5" staples to hold 2 14's....

Tom


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

davis9 said:


> Hammer and staples here. Inspectors are just beginning to enforce the 2 wire rule in my area. PITA using those 1.5" staples to hold 2 14's....
> 
> Tom


Just use a 32-OZ hammer....:laughing:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Laminated beams and 1.5" staples are no good.

Tom


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

davis9 said:


> Laminated beams and 1.5" staples are no good.
> 
> Tom


They are a killer...


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Where in this area are they fussing over the staples?


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Sorry. In the time it takes you to dig out a staple, I'm done.


yeah, pretty much.... and while i'm not doing mass production
lassoing of tracts, i lasso, then strip and stuff, then staple,
then make up, and manual nailing instead of a staple gun is
gonna take a while longer.

and anyone knows that only ACME products are used on the 
roadrunner cartoon show, and nothing goes faster than the
roadrunner.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

I like the 3M Stackers :thumbup:


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes in fact "Journeyman":laughing:
> 
> Why don't you read my posts
> 
> ...


??? Approved by who? Do you have any documentation backing up your statement? The MA amendment was cited and only specifies "staple guns"


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

I_get_shocked said:


> ??? Approved by who? Do you have any documentation backing up your statement? The MA amendment was cited and only specifies "staple guns"


The code says we must use insulated staples What part of it are you missing.




> 334.30 Securing and Supporting. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, or similar fittings so designed and in-stalled as to not damage the cable. Where staples are used for cable sizes smaller than three 8 AWG conductors, they shall be of the insulated type, or listed noninsulated staples driven by staple guns shall be permitted. Cable shall be secured in place at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (4½ ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) from every cabinet, box, or fitting. Where the cable is run diagonally behind strapping of a nominal 19 mm (¾-in.) thickness it shall be considered supported, secured, and in compliance with 334.17 where it is not pulled taut. For other than within 300 mm (12 in.) of a cable termination at a cabinet, box, or fitting, cables passing through successive holes in adjacent framing members no more than 600 mm (24 in.) apart shall be consi-dered to be secured.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The code says we must use insulated staples What part of it are you missing.


You seem to be missing something 



> they shall be of the insulated type, or *listed noninsulated* staples driven by staple guns shall be permitted


The ones 480 posted are listed and are acceptable.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> You seem to be missing something
> 
> 
> 
> The ones 480 posted are listed and are acceptable.


..................


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> You seem to be missing something
> 
> 
> 
> The ones 480 posted are listed and are acceptable.


The insulated type are the ones we can use Here that is why I posted the 72's


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> Where in this area are they fussing over the staples?



Some cities and towns in the North Shore MA area, rather not name names.LOL

Tom:thumbup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The code says we must use insulated staples What part of it are you missing.


:laughing:

Keep reading your post, after the part you highlighted in red.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Keep reading your post, after the part you highlighted in red.


And your point is what ?

Are you saying you are going to use the 75's that are uninsulated?

Or are you going to use th 72's that are insulated? 

Tell me what's better.

Oh!

I might have wait three day's. For your reply..


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> And your point is what ?
> 
> Are you saying you are going to use the 75's that are uninsulated?
> 
> ...


Do you own a codebook?

edit... Are you giving me **** because I don't sit at my computer on ET 24/7?? :laughing: :blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Do you own a codebook?
> 
> edit... Are you giving me **** because I don't sit at my computer on ET 24/7?? :laughing: :blink:


How do you think I posted the article?

No I'm giving you chit because you are kissing BBQ 's *****.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> And your point is what ?
> 
> Are you saying you are going to use the 75's that are uninsulated?
> 
> ...


You claimed we had to use insulated staples with staple guns in MA, my point is you do not. 

Now you are trying to change it to 'which is better' instead of what is required. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The insulated type are the ones we can use Here that is why I posted the 72's


Yes you *can* use the insulated ones but we are not *required* too.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The code says we must use insulated staples


:no:

It depends on the wire size and the method the staples are being driven.


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## HIVOLT (Nov 17, 2009)

Harry, uninsulated staples can be used as long as they are listed for NM. And Harry, just because a person is a journeyman does not mean he knows less than a master. In fact, in MA all a master license allows you to do is be a contractor. You don't work on your master license only your journeyman.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HIVOLT said:


> Harry, uninsulated staples can be used as long as they are listed for NM. And Harry, just because a person is a journeyman does not mean he knows less than a master. In fact, in MA all a master license allows you to do is be a contractor. You don't work on your master license only your journeyman.


Although you do have to take more schooling which in theory should make you smarter. :thumbup: :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> You claimed we had to use insulated staples with staple guns in MA, my point is you do not.
> 
> Now you are trying to change it to 'which is better' instead of what is required. :laughing:


I know what the minimum is by code and if you to use 75's go right ahead the fact is that I made the sudgestion that the 72's are a. Better choice and YOU jump right in and try to enforce your low standards of code minimum. 

Good for you, you must be proud.


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## HIVOLT (Nov 17, 2009)

Schooling does not give you commomsense. I just hate when tradesmen throw up into other peoples faces that they are masters. As if that really makes a difference to a journeyman.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> I know what the minimum is by code and if you to use 75's go right ahead the fact is that I made the sudgestion that the 72's are a. Better choice and YOU jump right in and try to enforce your low standards of code minimum.
> 
> Good for you, you must be proud.


Be careful, you'll blow out a knee with all your back peddling. :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HIVOLT said:


> Schooling does not give you commomsense. I just hate when tradesmen throw up into other peoples faces that they are masters. As if that really makes a difference to a journeyman.



We HAVE to work for a guy and every time we have a discussion with he prefaces every argument I AM A LICENSED MASTER ELECTRICIAN. And 99.9% of the time he is not just WRONG he is F**KING wrong.


I finally figured out how to handle this dolt. My response always is

" As a licensed master electrician in VIrginia, surely you understand the importance of this being done properly as a licensed master for an extended period of time you do understand............

Works every time.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Just to be clear, I am just a journeyman.

In MA if you still work with tools you must maintain a journeyman license. The only thing a masters license would gain me is the ability to open my own shop and another renewal fee. That being the case I not likely to ever be a master. Of course once my wife figures that out she is sure to take the kids and leave. She won't want to be tied to a jman forever. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

FYI, not all Master/Journeymen differences are the same.

Here, a Master's test is far more difficult and involved than a Journeyman's test. More calculations, especially services, motors, transformers, etc. It boils down to the difference between being able to properly DO the work and being able to properly PLAN the work.

And in some states, business & law questions are added to the test.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> FYI, not all Master/Journeymen differences are the same.


That is for sure, I would bet the differences outpace the similarities.




> And in some states, business & law questions are added to the test.


I believe that to be the case here but I am not sure.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

NY didn't got it right either.. you have to be a master to be in business.. but anyone can work for you with no training at all..

That explains a lot of the hack work in new housing and the dirt cheap prices that are out there.. 

You get one lead guy with a year experience and give him a bunch of guys who cut grass on the weekends.. that is your "crew".. :no:


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

Thats because you can teach a monkey to run romex from stud to stud box to box.:jester:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

SVT CAMR said:


> Thats because you can teach a monkey to run romex from stud to stud box to box.:jester:


Even monkeys can learn how to run pipe.. not that hard snaking wires through a metal tube..


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Maybe because it is the way I have been brought up in the trade, but here (4 states) A electricians license is required for electrical work under a master, a Masters is required to operate a company, a master can do anything a electrician can do.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

B4T said:


> Even monkeys can learn how to run pipe.. not that hard snaking wires through a metal tube..


Not meant to hurt your feelings just saying it takes longer to train someone to put pipe in the wall. Romex is like an extension cord. Drilling holes does not have to be precise either. They do not need to know anything about nothing to install a 14-2 from box to box.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> Not meant to hurt your feelings just saying it takes longer to train someone to put pipe in the wall. Romex is like an extension cord. Drilling holes does not have to be precise either. They do not need to know anything about nothing to install a 14-2 from box to box.


Basic pipe and basic NM is something that a half intelligent apprentice should be able to learn in 4-6 months. NM or EMT are no more difficult with proper training.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

SVT CAMR said:


> Not meant to hurt your feelings just saying it takes longer to train someone to put pipe in the wall. Romex is like an extension cord. Drilling holes does not have to be precise either. They do not need to know anything about nothing to install a 14-2 from box to box.


You are new here.. this has been a long debate and it will never come to a conclusion..

My feeling aren't hurt.. been here too long.. :laughing:


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

B4T said:


> You get one lead guy with a year experience and give him a bunch of guys who cut grass on the weekends.. that is your "crew".. :no:





brian john said:


> Basic pipe and basic NM is something that a half intelligent apprentice should be able to learn in 4-6 months. NM or EMT are no more difficult with proper training.


Were not talking about someone in the game looking to the future. We were discussing using people who cut grass to install electrical work.

BTW B4T I'm Island Elect. I not new. Just decided to remove that name from google searches and some of the things said on ET. I will still post as Island from time to time. I did for the same reasons Kite and KEE did it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

SVT CAMR said:


> Were not talking about someone in the game looking to the future. We were discussing using people who cut grass to install electrical work.
> it.


???????????????????

Where did that come from, I was (I THOUGHT) discussing anyone trying to learn the trade or perform as a worker in the trade.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

HIVOLT said:


> Harry, uninsulated staples can be used as long as they are listed for NM. And Harry, just because a person is a journeyman does not mean he knows less than a master. In fact, in MA all a master license allows you to do is be a contractor. You don't work on your master license only your journeyman.


No.

Read it again ,they are only taking about staples driven by staple guns not all staples



> 334.30 Securing and Supporting. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, or similar fittings so designed and in-stalled as to not damage the cable. Where staples are used for cable sizes smaller than three 8 AWG conductors, they shall be of the insulated type, or listed noninsulated staples driven by staple guns shall be permitted. Cable shall be secured in place at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (4½ ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) from every cabinet, box, or fitting. Where the cable is run diagonally behind strapping of a nominal 19 mm (¾-in.) thickness it shall be considered supported, secured, and in compliance with 334.17 where it is not pulled taut. For other than within 300 mm (12 in.) of a cable termination at a cabinet, box, or fitting, cables passing through successive holes in adjacent framing members no more than 600 mm (24 in.) apart shall be consi-dered to be secured.


In the case of the staple guns BBQ is right,But in my opinion I think it would be better if are going to use a staple gun it would be better to use the insulated type as I posted right here I should have worded my post better but did not think that it mattered untill BBQ comes out of the box Busting my chops about the code book.
Which i don't mind one bit and it is all good fun in my opinion.

I used the fact that he is a journeyman just to bust his chops back.

The fact that i am a master does not make me any better than he is in fact he is one of the top guys when it comes to the NEC and i would not hesitate asking him his opinion on a code issue that i was stuck on or just could not find.:thumbsup:

It is all in good fun and BBQ can take it just as well as he can throw it right back at you..:laughing:

If BBQ took the Masters exam tomorrow morning I'm sure he would pass it without much trouble.

In my opinion he would be better off having that master license in his wallet because at any given time a great opportunity could jump out at him where he would need it right then and there but if does not then that opportunity could slip away and go to someone else because it takes a lot of time to go to school and get set up for the test you just can't sign up and take it the next day.

That's all up to him.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Be careful, you'll blow out a knee with all your back peddling. :laughing:


:whistling2:




:laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Even monkeys can learn how to run pipe.. not that hard snaking wires through a metal tube..


Uh oh, where is Piperunner to tell us how only a real electrician like him can run pipe? :laughing::laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Uh oh, where is Piperunner to tell us how only a real electrician like him can run pipe? :laughing::laughing:


And how the ability to run pipe makes one a superhero.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

BBQ said:


> And how the ability to run pipe makes one a superhero.


I had a friend in high school who use to lay a lot of pipe and he was my hero.


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

brian john said:


> ???????????????????
> 
> Where did that come from, I was (I THOUGHT) discussing anyone trying to learn the trade or perform as a worker in the trade.


well, it originally started as a question about using a stapler, 
and has expanded to cover EMT, and the quality of both one's
training in work, and their family tree, and character analysis
of members of the forum, both participating in this thread, and not.

i still like my acme stapler, and my uninsulated code approved staples.

kerplunk, kerplunk, kerplunk, and i'm done, unlike this thread,
which shows no sign of dying.


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## SVT CAMR (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm sorry for the temp derail. Not something I make a habit of. 

Brian read post #57 that is what sparked my response.

I do have a stapler but only use it for low voltage bell wire.


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## Theriot (Aug 27, 2011)

I once had to run nm wire in a island bar that was built with raised panels. It was some really nice cabinets. The wire wasn't exposed and I didn't want to hammer on the wood work even though it was on the inside of the cabinet I was afraid of loosening something up so I used a staple gun worked great.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

NEC is now requiring hammered-in staples for ordinary NM to be insulated? Wow; missed that change. Then again, I haven't done NM for quite some time - I'm still using my special NM stapler, not having used up all the staples - though they went out of business years ago!

Note the Arrow stapler has rather detailed instructions, including the use of two stapels at each attachment.

Hammer & old style staples? I'm not so good at that when I'm laying on my back in a crawl space. At least, with some insulated styles, you can hammer in each side separately. 

Either way, I'm getting rather fond of the 'trees.' One real nail, can just string the cable along as you go.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Amish Electrician said:


> NEC is now requiring hammered-in staples for ordinary NM to be insulated?


No, the code section quoted is a Massachusetts ammendment.


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