# Can lights in a suspended ceiling



## 480sparky

I've always used just plain-Jane new construction cans. Most have a notch in the hanger bar for fitting over the T-grid.

DO NOT use remodel cans. They will cause the ceiling tiles to sag after a year or so.


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## B4T

I use metal corner bead to support the fixture arms above the ceiling tile


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## Jupe Blue

In our jurisdiction we lay the can lights in the t-bar grid and use a ceiling "slack" wire for seismic support. The can light generally comes with a clip that fits over the t-bar.


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## Magnettica

Here's some pictures










and here's light switch controlling them










here's the last time i worked at this place


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## crazymurph

New construction cans placed on the grid, use a scrap piece of ceiling wire from fixture to structure to prevent the fixture from ever falling through the ceiling.


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## Magnettica

For recessed lights installed in a suspended ceiling I have always used new work lights and secured the hangar bars to the ceiling grid with short tech screws. When there's little to no room above the can, I like to wire it first then install it.


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## subelect

Thanks.
Rick


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## Loose Neutral

Magnettica said:


> For recessed lights installed in a suspended ceiling I have always used new work lights and secured the hangar bars to the ceiling grid with short tech screws. When there's little to no room above the can, I like to wire it first then install it.



Ditto on that.


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## Grimlock

If it's a food preparation area you may be required to use a trim with a lens, or use some type of anti shatter lamps. (Just a heads up if no one thought of that, something to look into)


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## spdone

I installed some can lights at a ladies house for her kitchen and she loved them. She wanted to do the same thing at her little deli in the prep area. I Told her that I would take a look but advise against it. I looked, and again, advised that that troffers were more practical for many reasons. "Even light distribution and heat being the top 2. This is a working commercial kitchen not a granite and cherry wood display!" She laughed and I installed 15 recessed cans. She called me a week later to install the troffers. The cooks complained about heat and shadows. 
My point is this: In most cases,not all, can lights are the wrong thing for this application. And 2- since I expressed my opinion on the matter and I got the job to fix it. I ended up looking like the hero instead her thinking I should have known but did'nt.


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## knowshorts

You guys who are really smart with code, got a question for you. Can lights laid on a tile, with the factory slide brackets resting on t, fed with MC, strapped within 1' of fixture box. Slide bracket arms are not tied, screwed, or clipped to grid. They are just laying on grid. No additional ceiling wire attached anywhere to fixture. I say this is legal. Any arguments?


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## raider1

knowshorts said:


> You guys who are really smart with code, got a question for you. Can lights laid on a tile, with the factory slide brackets resting on t, fed with MC, strapped within 1' of fixture box. Slide bracket arms are not tied, screwed, or clipped to grid. They are just laying on grid. No additional ceiling wire attached anywhere to fixture. I say this is legal. Any arguments?


Depends on what seismic zone you are in.

I work in a seismic zone D0 and the building codes requires independant ceiling wires run to any luminaire installed in a suspended ceiling system.

Chris


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## spdone

Not in most places I have worked. Small self tappers or the like, in opposite corners on the brackets to the grid (or ceiling wire) seems to be most common requirement by the city. As for actual code... you know, I never actually looked!


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## knowshorts

raider, got it. can be interpreted legal in the NEC, but as far as seismic requirements, support is needed, at least here in CA. 

What is still unclear, is by my example above, the box is supporting the downlight, yet may need an additional wire, yet a box supported sconce, which could be heavier, does not.

As far as 2x4's go, the additional wires, typically at opposite corners, are not for seismic reasons, they are for fire department safety. When there is a commercial fire, the fireman like to swing their axes and rip the ceilings down. The tiles and grid fall, registers and fixtures stay.


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## Magnettica

raider1 said:


> Depends on what seismic zone you are in.
> 
> I work in a seismic zone D0 and the building codes requires independant ceiling wires run to any luminaire installed in a suspended ceiling system.
> 
> Chris




If I understand you correctly, are you saying you need a support in addition to the hangar bars attached to the grid?


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## knowshorts

Magnettica said:


> If I understand you correctly, are you saying you need a support in addition to the hangar bars attached to the grid?


Where I am at, it depends. If you can get 2 hanger bars attached with screws, clips, wire, etc., on the main runner, then no. If your hanger bars are supported by cross pieces, then yes you need an additional wire.


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## raider1

Magnettica said:


> If I understand you correctly, are you saying you need a support in addition to the hangar bars attached to the grid?


Depending on the seismic zone you are in Yes, you may need an additional support wire.

Here in Northern Utah we are required to attach the luminaire to the grid and in addition we must have independent ceiling wires connected to the luminaire. In the case of a recessed can we usually only need 1 wire but with a 2X4 troffer you are require to have 2 wires on opposing corners.

Chris


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## nitro71

In WA you have to slack wire your fixtures in t-bar ceilings to the lid or the iron. In your situation if wire is required, sure seems like it should be as most building codes require it, I'd check with the AHJ and see if you can secure your wire to the building iron that is showing below that insulation.


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## JayH

For those of you in California:

http://ci.santa-rosa.ca.us/doclib/Documents/CDB_016_Susp_Clg_SC_1_2.pdf

Although this is a link from City of Santa Rosa, it is CBC and applies to all installations within the state of California.


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## Magnettica

Very good. We don't have many earthquakes out here :laughing:


Even for the 2x4 lay-in lights all I've ever done is attach them with screws or "hurricane clips" to the ceiling grid. The big thing a few years ago was not attaching any of the cabling to the ceiling supports.


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## JohnJ0906

knowshorts said:


> You guys who are really smart with code, got a question for you. Can lights laid on a tile, with the factory slide brackets resting on t, fed with MC, strapped within 1' of fixture box. Slide bracket arms are not tied, screwed, or clipped to grid. They are just laying on grid. No additional ceiling wire attached anywhere to fixture. I say this is legal. Any arguments?


Not legal. - 410.36(B)

".... Luminaires shall be securely fastened to the ceiling framing member by mechanical means such as bolts, screws, or rivets. ...."


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## B4T

Magnettica said:


> For recessed lights installed in a suspended ceiling I have always used new work lights and secured the hangar bars to the ceiling grid with short tech screws. When there's little to no room above the can, I like to wire it first then install it.


There is still enough flexibility in the fixture bars to make the ceiling tile sag.

Try cutting off the 2" leg on the fixture bar (that you were screwing into the T grid) so it is straight with the ring housing.

Cut sheet rock corner bead 22.5 inches and slide under ring housing on both sides.. never sags :thumbsup:


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## knowshorts

JohnJ0906 said:


> Not legal. - 410.36(B)
> 
> ".... Luminaires shall be securely fastened to the ceiling framing member by mechanical means such as bolts, screws, or rivets. ...."



Re-read 410.36(b)
*(B) Suspended Ceilings. *
Framing members of suspended ceiling systems _used to support luminaires_ shall be securely fastened to each other and shall be securely attached to the building structure at appropriate intervals. Luminaires shall be securely fastened to the ceiling framing member by mechanical means such as bolts, screws, or rivets. Listed clips identified for use with the type of ceiling framing member(s) and luminaire(s) shall also be permitted.

The above article is for if you CHOSE TO SUPPORT the fixture from the grid. In my original example, the fixture is supported by the mc connector and box.

I was BS'ing with an inspector a few years back and was relaying a question these kids were arguing about at the supply house. With the explanations from the handbook (even though not legal), inspector agreed.

The above code reference is from my E copy of the 08. My paper copy and changes books are still shrink wrapped. I won't need them for a while.


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