# How many guys warming the bench?



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Bench?
Go for the gusto!


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Hahaha yea true enough!


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

looks like only two.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Lmao


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

280 in local 363


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

I'm heading back overseas in about three weeks,this time to Afghanistan.Steve


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Huh?

What's this?


I don't understand!


Isn't the union supposed to do whatever it takes to keep their members working at least 40 hours a week?!?! Geez, it seems like every pro-union electrician likes to brag about how great and wonderful and fantastic being in the IBEW is. 

And now it appears they can't even keep everyone busy?

Seems to me all the suit-and-tie management types ought to step down and let the rank-and-file field personel take their place so they have a job and can continue to make their $349/hour pay (with all the attendant out-of-this-world bennies) to support their families.

Looks like if you're an IBEW member, if you're the low man on the totem pole, you're the first to get let go. Unlike non-union shops, where if you're the low man on the totem pole, you're the first to get let go.:whistling2:


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## spdone (Dec 13, 2009)

60 or so local 527 here in Galveston County,TX


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## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

Last time I checked about 240 in my local. Thats a little under 10%. I have seen it a lot worse. We have several jobs that will be calling for men soon.


Charlie


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## 134fisherman (Dec 13, 2008)

*No Work in Chicago*

2452.Hall says out of work 18 months or more :wallbash: Bring back early retirement!


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Some good news on the employment front:


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> And now it appears they can't even keep everyone busy?


Not here, I do not bid alot of jobs because I know the hall can not get me any men.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*What's what?*



480sparky said:


> Huh?
> 
> What's this?
> 
> ...


The unions can't fix a fxxxed-up economy. Some Locals are doing everything they can to keep their members busy. Here in Charlotte, NC, it's the non-Union guys that are wilting on the vine, as many open shops have gone under... even some very big ones.

The IBEW here is getting stronger and stronger, and we have collectively grown throughout this recession. Every member that wants a job has one, and we have more calls coming in. We are truly blessed, and we do not take it for granted.


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## jessa82 (Dec 5, 2009)

This is my first post. Found this website last week and have been reading a lot of the past stuff.
Local 6 (san francisco) has 344 journeymen and 123 apprentices (including me) out of work, last I heard.





480sparky said:


> Seems to me all the suit-and-tie management types ought to step down and let the rank-and-file field personel take their place so they have a job and can continue to make their $349/hour pay (with all the attendant out-of-this-world bennies) to support their families.
> 
> Looks like if you're an IBEW member, if you're the low man on the totem pole, you're the first to get let go. Unlike non-union shops, where if you're the low man on the totem pole, you're the first to get let go.:whistling2:


Suit-and-tie types aren't part of the IBEW from what I've seen. Are the contractors' office employees union where you are?

From what I've seen so far, three years into my apprenticeship, it's not the low man on the pole who goes first. I've seen guys who've been at the same shop for years get laid off before some younger/newer guys. And we apprentices are on a whole different system right now. To share the small amount of work currently happening, we are on a rotating layoff system. Basically taking turns working (and then being unemployed) so everyone can keep getting some work experience and hours toward license. Right now it's about 2 months on, 2 months off.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I hate the thought that anyone that wants to work is off, much less at this time of year. A friend of mine was let go last week and another guy I know may not have a job after the first of the year.


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## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

brian john said:


> I hate the thought that anyone that wants to work is off, much less at this time of year. A friend of mine was let go last week and another guy I know may not have a job after the first of the year.


Its a sign of the times. Work in my area should pick up a little in the spring. More BRAC work at Ft. Meade and Aberdeen. We also have a few jobs in the DC area getting ready to ramp up.

Charlie


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

This kind of work is seasonal. Ups and downs with the time of year.

There are economic trends, fluctuating ups and downs with the years.

People who seek this kind of work need to understand that. There is no guarantee of 40 hours.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

Local 816 has 63 on book 1 and 140 on book 2. Book 1 status is slow and book 2 status is not at all. 

I'm not union just have a few friends in the union. They were always telling me how good the union is, not lately though. One has been working with me, when I can use him and picking up side jobs just to feed his family.


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

jessa82 said:


> This is my first post. Found this website last week and have been reading a lot of the past stuff.
> Local 6 (san francisco) has 344 journeymen and 123 apprentices (including me) out of work, last I heard.
> 
> 
> ...


123 apprentices out???? thats crazy!


Local 150 (Lake county, IL) has over 260 on Book 1


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

brian john said:


> I hate the thought that anyone that wants to work is off, much less at this time of year. A friend of mine was let go last week and another guy I know may not have a job after the first of the year.


Yeah with all the expenses this time of year it isn't exactly the best time to get laid off, but for a guy in our industry getting laid off for a month or two shouldn't be a huge shock either...

As far as the work situation goes, things are pretty busy here in Ottawa, the local has been accepting travelers all 12 months of 2009 and probably will for the better part of 2010. Though from my experience things can change real fast. 

During the tech meltdown several years ago that decimated companies like Nortel and JDS Uniphase everything was running full bore and then, like someone flipped a switch, there were a lot of sparkies out of work.

Back when the current economic situation was rearing its ugly head I kept hearing rumors that things didn't look good. But luckily for our region it seems to have had barely any effect on us at all.

To be honest, this being a government town, I'm more worried about when the government decides its time to tackle the massive debts they've accumulated the last couple years and start turning off the taps.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

Last I heard Local 76 Tacoma, WA 150 Journeyman and 10 Apprentices. Some of those of course don't want to work right now.


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## SRacerWV (Dec 19, 2009)

317 has 9 on book1 and well over 300 on book 2

we have a large line job going on now that just started, and marathon is getting ready for a turn-around in march. far as i know, local guys are working if you want to work. hell, we just took a couple travlers for a short-call last week, and we are on 6/10's
im at marathon btw....wonder if the spelling nazis will come after me for this post

UNION TILL I DIE


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> The IBEW here is getting stronger and stronger, and we have collectively grown throughout this recession. *Every member that wants a job has one,* and we have more calls coming in.


That really sounds like a dump truck load of BS.


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## SRacerWV (Dec 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> That really sounds like a dump truck load of BS.


wow...you are a treat...but to confirm what our NC bother was saying is true...I lived in that area for 9yrs and it was horrid....now granted, Charlotte is no San Fran, not by a long shot, but that area has been rat infested for many many years and any, and I mean ANY growth for the working man is great. Union shops are growing in the south. the scale sucks, but that comes later. Once clients start seeing our union work quality compared to that of the common non-educated worker...then we will have a stronger foot in the door.

More power to my southern brothers and sisters...don't give up the good fight.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

SRacerWV said:


> wow...you are a treat...but to confirm what our NC bother was saying is true...I lived in that area for 9yrs and it was horrid....now granted, Charlotte is no San Fran, not by a long shot, but that area has been rat infested for many many years and any, and I mean ANY growth for the working man is great. Union shops are growing in the south. the scale sucks, but that comes later. Once clients start seeing our union work quality compared to that of the common non-educated worker...then we will have a stronger foot in the door.
> 
> More power to my southern brothers and sisters...don't give up the good fight.



And you leaned this all at the hall no doubt.

Keep enjoying the Kool aid.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> And you leaned this all at the hall no doubt.
> 
> Keep enjoying the Kool aid.


Bob,
You are the all time Kool -Aid kid.

Seriously, if a massive project came out of the ground and had to be manned with highly trained and skilled electricians, do you really think there are enough rope rats in the country to even come close to what the IBEW can provide?
We make enough to take off when its slow, split time with each other when we can, and we can retire with enough income to live a nice life.

I understand the sour grapes for the older guys that couldn't get in during the old days but, don't try to mislead the younger guys with "Glenn Beck" yellow journalism style B.S.

The up and coming tradesmen need a proper professional technical education. I do not see any program out there that is anything close to what the JATC can provide.

I agree that work is slow but we know how our business cycles.
And,
Just looking at raw numbers, there has to be at least 100 rats out of work for every 20 union electricians on the bench.

"Responsible Wage Rates" (similar to our Union Package)for Miami is:

* ELEC0349-001 08/31/2009

Rates Fringes

ELECTRICIAN, Including HVAC 
Temperature Control 
Installation 
Electrical contracts 
including materials that 
are over $2,000,000.........$ 29.61 8.71
Electrical contracts 
including materials that 
are under $2,000,000........$ 27.15 8.44

If you answer an ad for a "merit shop" around here, they pay about $8 for a helper and $10 to $12 for a licensed guy.
WTF is up with that?

So before you flap your jib about how bad Unions are, think about those up and coming tradesmen you are attempting to sell your glorious lifestyle to.
Before they know it, they will be 50 or 60 years old, with no pension, declining physical abilities and very, very few options for retiring or surviving without winning the lottery. (Hows that 401k doing?)

Maybe you made it OK but,worming your way to the top or opening your own business isn't possible for everyone.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Seriously, if a massive project came out of the ground and had to be manned with highly trained and skilled electricians, do you really think there are enough rope rats in the country to even come close to what the IBEW can provide?


You have to go derogatory don't you?

Well anyway yes, yes I do think that. 



> I understand the sour grapes for the older guys that couldn't get in during the old days but, don't try to mislead the younger guys with "Glenn Beck" yellow journalism style B.S.


It's never been that I could not get in, it's always been I choose not to.



> The up and coming tradesmen need a proper professional technical education. I do not see any program out there that is anything close to what the JATC can provide.


Well you need to get out more and experience more because we have in house training. No not all merit shops do but then comes that personal responsibility thing. 



> I agree that work is slow but we know how our business cycles.
> And,
> Just looking at raw numbers, there has to be at least 100 rats out of work for every 20 union electricians on the bench.


Again it seems Union guy cannot state his position without slamming non-Union workers. What is up with that?



> So before you flap your jib about how bad Unions are,


I did not say anything bad about the union (in this thread)

I was responding to this.



boulengerina said:


> Every member that wants a job has one, and we have more calls coming in.



Please tell me how that is remotely possible at this time in this country?

I do not think it is true and I called him on it.





> Maybe you made it OK but,worming your way to the top or opening your own business isn't possible for everyone.


F- You, I did not worm anywhere, I worked hard and personally earned everything I have. I did not have to join a group of extortionists to get it.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You have to go derogatory don't you?
> 
> Sorry, I thought it was a term of endearment these days with the
> Ratus Maximumus title you proudly display:thumbsup:
> ...


Confirmed worm! I didn't say it was you but only making a general statement:whistling2:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

SRacerWV said:


> wow...you are a treat...but to confirm what our NC bother was saying is true...I lived in that area for 9yrs and it was horrid....now granted, Charlotte is no San Fran, not by a long shot, but that area has been rat infested for many many years and any, and I mean ANY growth for the working man is great.


So open shop men are not workers?



> Union shops are growing in the south. the scale sucks, but that comes later. Once clients start seeing our union work quality compared to that of the common non-educated worker...then we will have a stronger foot in the door.


It must be the education system and hill billy mentality that makes for poor quality work which means your SUPERB union training will still be substandard to a northerners work skills. BEACUSE I have seen work in Charlotte and Charleston ON UNION projects and what I saw was nothing special.


Union DOES NOT HAVE A LOCK ON QUALITY, and until union members realize this, men that throw around this BS and terms like rat will continue to do more harm than good for the union movement.

If you wanted to help the cause you would have taken a positive approach, but due to a need to feel better you slam all open shop workers which are still the majority of electrician and growing for better or worse.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> The up and coming tradesmen need a proper professional technical education. I do not see any program out there that is anything close to what the JATC can provide.





Bob Badger said:


> Well you need to get out more and experience more because we have in house training. No not all merit shops do but then comes that personal responsibility thing.





jrannis said:


> Bob, I have personally spent years in each program I know the difference!


Well it is obvious you have not worked here. Here, if you take responsibility for you're own life you can find open shops with excellent training, safety training, electrical skills training, OSHA training etc. Of course in my area there is also Local 103, sure wish I could send you the video I have of the 103 members working on the roof of their own hall without fall protection. I thought union guys where all trained? :no:

We can and do work on any type of job and the customers are very satisfied with both our efficiency and quality. So before you continue throwing out stereo type BS do a little checking first.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Well it is obvious you have not worked here. Here, if you take responsibility for you're own life you can find open shops with excellent training, safety training, electrical skills training, OSHA training etc. Of course in my area there is also Local 103, sure wish I could send you the video I have of the 103 members working on the roof of their own hall.
> 
> What were you doing snooping around the 103 union hall?:whistling2:
> 
> We can and do work on any type of job and the customers are very satisfied with both our efficiency and quality.


 One little job at a time:thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> What were you doing snooping around the 103 union hall?


Open shop guys could care less what happens inside the hall we are not like scumbag salts that sneak in the door of an open shop to lie and deceive in the name of the union. :whistling2:


I really don't care if the 103 guys wear PPE or not, but I will point it out when someone starts bragging about how union guys are the best workers out there. They are no better or worse then any other human being.


The crew working on the roof was being professionally video taped for a DVD that came with a book I have about PV installations. You would have thought they would have recognized the irony and the unprofessional image they presented.







jrannis said:


> One little job at a time:thumbsup:


Believe whatever lets you sleep at night.


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

jrannis said:


> Bob,
> You are the all time Kool -Aid kid.
> 
> Seriously, if a massive project came out of the ground and had to be manned with highly trained and skilled electricians, do you really think there are enough rope rats in the country to even come close to what the IBEW can provide?
> ...


 
Well said, my friend. BillW.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Open shop guys could care less what happens inside the hall we are not like scumbag salts that sneak in the door of an open shop to lie and deceive in the name of the union. :whistling2:


Bob,
I really don't know what all this buzz is about salting.
I doubt anyone has any first hand knowledge of the elusive "salt"
The way I understood it to be is that you went to work for a non-union shop with the blessing of your local, worked hard, got dirty and went home tired.
When someone asked you where you learned your hard work ethics and immortal skills, you let them know the truth. You are trained to make contractors money. So much money, that some of them can afford to provide company owned power tools to work with, pay a living wage to their guys with paid health care and retirement.

No lies, no sneaking anything. Just good ol American flag waving hard work!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Rope rats.. rat infested.. BUT my cheese still tastes good :laughing:


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> That really sounds like a dump truck load of BS.


I don't get it, if you non union guys dislike the union so much just stay out of the union topics section! I posted this question to all the union members on the forum, not for open shop guys. and of course it has to turn into a big union/non union argument AGAIN. 

And I have nothing against open shop workers, we are all trying to make a living. Myself, I am union and I prefer it.


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

:thumbup:


cdnelectrician said:


> I don't get it, if you non union guys dislike the union so much just stay out of the union topics section! I posted this question to all the union members on the forum, not for open shop guys. and of course it has to turn into a big union/non union argument AGAIN.
> 
> And I have nothing against open shop workers, we are all trying to make a living. Myself, I am union and I prefer it.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Bob,
> I really don't know what all this buzz is about salting.
> I doubt anyone has any first hand knowledge of the elusive "salt"


I do






> No lies, no sneaking anything. Just good ol American flag waving hard work!


In the case I know lies and sneaking was the way it was done.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

cdnelectrician said:


> I don't get it, if you non union guys dislike the union so much just stay out of the union topics section! I posted this question to all the union members on the forum, not for open shop guys. and of course it has to turn into a big union/non union argument AGAIN.
> 
> And I have nothing against open shop workers, we are all trying to make a living. Myself, I am union and I prefer it.


CD mostly it is to defend the hard working men and dispel the misconceptions of SOME union men.

And it is an OPEN forum.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

brian john said:


> CD mostly it is to defend the hard working men and dispel the misconceptions of SOME union men.
> 
> And it is an OPEN forum.


 
Point taken, I am just tired of all these threads turning into a heated debate...it's getting old...


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

cdnelectrician said:


> I don't get it, if you non union guys dislike the union so much just stay out of the union topics section! I posted this question to all the union members on the forum, not for open shop guys. and of course it has to turn into a big union/non union argument AGAIN.


I will gladly make a deal with you.

You get Local 103 and 99 to stop picketing jobs the company works, stop trying to intimidate my coworkers, stop salting jobs, stop putting union stickers on my company truck when I park in the city, etc. and I will stop bothering you guys here. Until that time you are stuck with me, deal with it.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

well Bob, if you would stop stealing their work, they wouldn't have to get angry...so obviously, it's your fault...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

What is salting a job? :blink:


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> What is salting a job? :blink:


 
Union workers working for an open shop, trying ti influence the other workers.


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## SRacerWV (Dec 19, 2009)

so....how many guys warming the bench ? :laughing:

seriously, i too have nothing against an "open" shop...around these parts we have an "open" shop called Ardent..how these guys stay alive let alone employed is still a big mystery. cant tell you the number of times i have personally seen a few of them doing some very dangerous (stupid) stuff...i.e. opening a 480 motor control box to add a new 1" while removing the old... all hotwork done with not even a glove let alone an arcflash suit. i felt sorry for that dude, i bet he didnt even know what/how close he came to death.the guy standing there teaching him, he was behind the open motor control box...to me that is the "open" way....whatever it takes to get the job done.if it took every last ardent guy they had, they would get that 1" in that box.after all, there are more "open" guys/gals joining "open" shops all the time...specially on that job where they are paid scale while they work there...scale, another thing that you may thank a UNION worker for.............
Again, how many are warming the bench in your area ?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob,
These days a picket is more of a social gathering and information display.

I really do not understand the benefit of putting a union sticker on your truck except for knowing that you had to look at it the whole 30 seconds it took to take it off.

What has been your experience with guys salting your jobs? Did they something illegal or get fired?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

crazymurph said:


> Union workers working for an open shop, trying ti influence the other workers.


May I assume this is a union sanctioned action? 

If so, do the union workers put forth their best efforts for the contractor they are working for?

Just curious.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Bob,
> These days a picket is more of a social gathering and information display.


I can't speak for what happens where you are but I can tell you with certainty that pickets here are not just social gatherings.

Here they block access to the job sites and this often results in two separate gates being installed at the site. One gate for union contractors and they can picket this gate and another gate for non-union contractors that the non cannot picket .... or at least they are not supposed to but somehow they alway end up in front of our delivery trucks.

Now I am not saying this happens at every job, it does not happen at most of our jobs but we often have at least one job going that has this happens.

Tensions run much higher then a 'social gathering' the only thing that keeps things from turning bad are the police.




> I really do not understand the benefit of putting a union sticker on your truck except for knowing that you had to look at it the whole 30 seconds it took to take it off.


Neither do I but it happens, a subtle reminder that I am not welcome to work in the city.



> What has been your experience with guys salting your jobs? Did they something illegal or get fired?





hardworkingstiff said:


> May I assume this is a union sanctioned action?
> 
> If so, do the union workers put forth their best efforts for the contractor they are working for?
> 
> Just curious.


Yes I have had first hand experience with union salts, it's been a while as I am really not in the construction end of things any longer.

We were building a large office building in RI and 99 sent at least 3 salts to the job, of course for the first month or so we did not know they where salts, all we know is they where the laziest POS workers we had on site.

Our hours where 7-3:30, these guys would show up at 6:59:59 and leave at 3:30 every day even though the rest of us would be at the gang box _ready to work_ at about 6:50 and at the end of the day if we where still cleaning up they would leave anyway.

One of them would need new safety glasses every day and of course we had to provide them. 

Eventually we found out and at that point they started coming in each day with "Union Yes" t-shirts on, the lunch coolers with all the union stickers came out and they tried pushing their agenda to anyone that was interested ........ to their disappointment no one was interested.

I do not want you to think I only say what I have to say on the internet, after a while I confronted them during break time and just started letting them have it. "What the F are you doing here?", "Leave you are not wanted here" , "Take you're Union Yes shirt and stick it up you're ..." etc.

Their lunches may have disappeared each day as well but I cannot confirm they where thrown in the trash each day.

Eventually they left, I do not know what caused them to leave but had the company fired them they would have gotten lawyers to sue for wrongful termination etc.

And yes Lou, this is a union sanctioned action

The following is likely a bit biased but still gives you an idea



> "Salting" occurs when a union tries to get non-union firms to hire pro-union workers and even paid union organizers. If one of its applicants is rejected, the union then files unfair labor practice charges against the company, claiming that it "discriminated" against the applicant due to his union sympathies. There is no penalty for filing baseless charges with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), but defending against the charges can be very costly to the company and its workers. The firm will have to hire a lawyer and that can use up a lot of a small company's limited resources. Wasting the company's time and money is precisely the objective.
> 
> On the other hand, if the "salt" is hired, he can then foment trouble internally. He'll file charges against the company, again often groundless, but almost any grievance can conceivably be deemed an "unfair labor practice." If the company fires him, he happily goes back on the union payroll-and then files charges for discriminatory termination. The company either pays a small fortune in legal costs, or else it unionizes.


 
http://www.mackinac.org/49


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Well Bob, if I had your experiences, I would feel the same as you do. I have not had any exposure to union workers. I do have a problem with a union (not saying electrical union) getting a lazy semi-productive worker a life long job that ends up paying them $50-$70 (including benifits) per hour just because they are in the union. 

On the other hand, unions can do good by keeping employers from abusing employees.

If unions work at trying to help the employee by helping the employer then all can win. If unions take the attitude of it's all about the employee and screw the employer, then they (and the employer) are doomed.

It's a complicated world and workplace. It's going to get a lot rougher before it gets better. Unions may indeed be glad to get a $15/hour job for their men one day (I hope I'm wrong).


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> I can't speak for what happens where you are but I can tell you with certainty that pickets here are not just social gatherings.
> 
> Here they block access to the job sites and this often results in two separate gates being installed at the site. One gate for union contractors and they can picket this gate and another gate for non-union contractors that the non cannot picket .... or at least they are not supposed to but somehow they alway end up in front of our delivery trucks.
> 
> ...


Yes Bob, I am sure that this story is factual without exaggeration on your part.
You do know that this effect your integrity on all subjects when embellish stories to make your point “seem” stronger.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

drsparky said:


> Yes Bob, I am sure that this story is factual without exaggeration on your part.
> You do know that this effect your integrity on all subjects when embellish stories to make your point “seem” stronger.


I am not sure what you are saying.


Do you think I am exaggerating or not?

There seems to be some innuendo in your post, I was very careful to be 100% truthful. You will also never find a post where I have said that unions do not serve some good, now or in the past.

I would like all to keep in mind this thread went off the rails just because I made a short post questioning a statement that was made that 'every man was working' after that jrannis went off on a rant about a ton of stuff I never even touched on.

To me truthfullness means so much, that is one of the reasons I have so much of a problem with Salts


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Bob,
> These days a picket is more of a social gathering and information display.
> 
> I really do not understand the benefit of putting a union sticker on your truck except for knowing that you had to look at it the whole 30 seconds it took to take it off.
> ...


Why did they tie tin cans to the drive shaft of one of my trucks and rocks in the hubcaps?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> May I assume this is a union sanctioned action?
> 
> If so, do the union workers put forth their best efforts for the contractor they are working for?
> 
> Just curious.


In some cases it has been reported that they damage equipment. Sometimes they are their to spy or organize, but in no case are they going to but forth a GOOD work effort.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

cdnelectrician said:


> Point taken, I am just tired of all these threads turning into a heated debate...it's getting old...


 
From the get go I was against the Union Topic section as I knew it would become a battle ground.

There are good points to be made by both sides and in the long run as I have said countless times I think union is the batter place if you are going to be electrician that works with his tools everyday. BUT I also feel the union men often do more harm that good.

They are NOT ALWAYS BETTER workers
They are NOT ALWAYS BETTER educated.

And terms like scab and rat only hurt their cause.
Picketting only hurts their cause.
And some of the things noted by others only hurt their cause.

In kindergarten we learn you get more with sugar that vinegar, these dolts either forgot this or flunked out of preschool.

If they talked about other races like they talk about open shop workers they wouold be let go for not being PC, well hatered is hatered and they ferment HATE.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

My observations from my short time on this forum is that there is more venom spewed forth from non-union supporters toward union supporters than the other way around.

But again, I've only been on this forum a short time.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

JayH said:


> My observations from my short time on this forum is that there is more venom spewed forth from non-union supporters toward union supporters than the other way around.
> 
> But again, I've only been on this forum a short time.


I don't know about all that madness. I've seen it go both ways, most of the non-union guys are basing their feelings toward the union, on their experiences with them.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Union*

Bob, you really need to move away from that east coast. Don't you know your supposed to live there just long enough to get tough, but not too long or you'll end up bitter and pissed off all the time. Move to the midwest or south. It's not that bad around here. I don't even see union companies hardly.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Ohio is mid-west??

Go Sharks!!!


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

JayH said:


> My observations from my short time on this forum is that there is more venom spewed forth from non-union supporters toward union supporters than the other way around.
> 
> But again, I've only been on this forum a short time.


venom? maybe....frustration? definitely....sometimes it's like having 2 people stand in front of you...one punches you in the nose, and when you look at the 2nd guy and say "why did he punch me in the nose?", the 2nd guy says "he would never punch you in the nose"....

well, it's the same here...Bob has been through the wringer, and guys come on here and say "nope, never happens that way"...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

oldman said:


> ......well, it's the same here...Bob has been through the wringer, and guys come on here and say "nope, never happens that way"...


 
Because it didn't happen that way.

Bob just makes up all those newspaper articles and YouTube videos just like I fake every photograph. :whistling2:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

exactly, intellectual dishonesty is what you do best


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Venom was hyperbole.

I've worked both sides of the fence. 10 years as an open shop electrician and 17 as an union electrician.

I've seen hacks and outstanding electricians on both sides. I cannot say that I have seen the type of actions that Bob has endured, but I am not naive enough to believe they do not go on outside my local.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

oldman said:


> exactly, intellectual dishonesty is what you do best


I'm just a tool. I don't know whether to be offended or not.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Look guys if you enjoy the union more power to you, the union certainly has done a lot of good over it's history. 


I would like to point out something that I find odd.

Out in the 'real world' I am expected to take whatever the union deals out. 

But here, in a discussion forum, many of you here cry like babies when I simply type my opinions.

_Whats up with that?_:001_huh:

You don't have to read my posts, you can even place me on the ignore list.


----------



## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Mad*

Bob, it doesn't work like that. Howard Stern's biggest draw is his critics. The more they fight, the more they like it. Like Pigs in ****.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Look guys if you enjoy the union more power to you, the union certainly has done a lot of good over it's history.
> 
> 
> I would like to point out something that I find odd.
> ...


Well that's just silly. What if you have something revolutionary to say that solves all of the Union - Non-Union discourse?

:laughing:


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

This thread has gotten way off base.

Local 86 Rochester, NY has about 200 on book 1.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

JayH said:


> Ohio is mid-west??
> 
> Go Sharks!!!


Yep so they consider it, seems strange to me too.


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## Zip (Dec 23, 2009)

102 journeyman out of work here in Local 81 Scranton PA. Its not pretty here.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

brian john said:


> Yep so they consider it, seems strange to me too.


basically everything between the two mountain ranges is the mid west


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

JayH said:


> Well that's just silly. What if you have something revolutionary to say that solves all of the Union - Non-Union discourse?
> 
> :laughing:


:laughing:

I have just been holding out waiting for the right time. :laughing:


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

I was just looking at the US BOL web site and the electrician statics for 2008 was 694,900 employed electricians. If the union holds 7% that would equal 48,643 union electricians and 646,257 non-union electricians, does that sound right nation wide? Where are all of these non-union electricians being trained?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rlc3854 said:


> I was just looking at the US BOL web site and the electrician statics for 2008 was 694,900 employed electricians. If the union holds 7% that would equal 48,643 union electricians and 646,257 non-union electricians, does that sound right nation wide? Where are all of these non-union electricians being trained?


 
I got my 4 years of apprenticeship schooling at ABC, and the rest was OJT.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

We were building a large office building in RI and 99 sent at least 3 salts to the job, of course for the first month or so we did not know they where salts, all we know is they where the laziest POS workers we had on site.

Our hours where 7-3:30, these guys would show up at 6:59:59 and leave at 3:30 every day even though the rest of us would be at the gang box _ready to work_ at about 6:50 and at the end of the day if we where still cleaning up they would leave anyway.

One of them would need new safety glasses every day and of course we had to provide them. 
Bob these statements have the look of slight exaggeration. 
1. The laziest on the site? Why didn't you fire them?
2. They showed up on time and left on time? That is what you should do. Did you pay the others overtime to clean up after 3:30 or do they do it for free?
3. New safety glasses every day? Are we slightly exaggerating?
Take care, Merry Christmas


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

drsparky said:


> We were building a large office building in RI and 99 sent at least 3 salts to the job, of course for the first month or so we did not know they where salts, all we know is they where the laziest POS workers we had on site.
> 
> Our hours where 7-3:30, these guys would show up at 6:59:59 and leave at 3:30 every day even though the rest of us would be at the gang box _ready to work_ at about 6:50 and at the end of the day if we where still cleaning up they would leave anyway.
> 
> ...


OK I did not keep a journal so maybe he missed a couple of days needing glasses.  

But honestly I do not think you understand the goal of these salts, they want the company to take action against them.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> OK I did not keep a journal so maybe he missed a couple of days needing glasses.
> 
> But honestly I do not think you understand the goal of these salts, they want the company to take action against them.


 
*They want the company to take action against them*

*YEP! And then you are in deep doodoo unless you document EVERYTHING which most companies do not do.*

Which drives up the cost of a job having a person take part of their day to document slackers.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> In some cases it has been reported that they damage equipment. Sometimes they are their to spy or organize, but in no case are they going to but forth a GOOD work effort.


 
Wrong again, Brian. There ARE cases where salts put forth an honest effort. We organize WHOLE SHOPS that way. You seem smart, and it seems that you try to help, but you speak in absolutes based on your own experience... But you really don't know what you're talking about. Please quit trashing the IBEW. If you are not on board with the changes that are taking place in this organization, then go away. If you don't know about the changes going on, then I suggest that you learn about those changes. But please quit acting like you know anything. And this applies to all. I do not mean to pick on Brian... He's a good guy. But there is SOOOOO much misinformation on this site, it makes me want to hurl. This isn't a Union forum.... This is a place where typically young Union guys go to ask questions, then get their heads bitten off by non-Union guys, or Union guys that are so cynical, they need to turn in their tickets.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> OK I did not keep a journal so maybe he missed a couple of days needing glasses.
> 
> But honestly I do not think you understand the goal of these salts, they want the company to take action against them.



Not our salts, Bob. Not ours.

I would expect a salt to be fired like anyone else. They are not specially protected, and they are there to do a job. They should be treated just like everyone else. Now if your company is breaking the law with regards to how it handles it's people, then that's not the Union's fault. But the guys that you described are salts simply because they couldn't hack it on a Union job. They would be "let go" very quickly from any of our jobs here in NC. Maybe its different in Mass, I don't know.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

I can assure you that Boston & NY/NJ are different than NC.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> Wrong again, Brian. There ARE cases where salts put forth an honest effort. We organize WHOLE SHOPS that way. You seem smart, and it seems that you try to help, but you speak in absolutes based on your own experience... But you really don't know what you're talking about. Please quit trashing the IBEW. If you are not on board with the changes that are taking place in this organization, then go away. If you don't know about the changes going on, then I suggest that you learn about those changes. But please quit acting like you know anything. And this applies to all. I do not mean to pick on Brian... He's a good guy. But there is SOOOOO much misinformation on this site, it makes me want to hurl. This isn't a Union forum.... This is a place where typically young Union guys go to ask questions, then get their heads bitten off by non-Union guys, or Union guys that are so cynical, they need to turn in their tickets.


 
It's a two way street here.

Now if you can get all your Brothers to quit trashing non-union electricians and posting untruths about us. After all 'this applies to all'.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*Then maybe it shouldn't be*



oldman said:


> I can assure you that Boston & NY/NJ are different than NC.



I know that things are different in areas where the Union controls the market share. But one of those differences shouldn't be the way our salts behave. I may piss of some of my "brothers" with this, but salts should never be sent to a job with the intention of wobbling it. If the IBEW Local in any area wants to be what it says it is (The Best, right?), we can't just say it, and it magically be true. We have to prove it. One of the best ways to do that is to put salts on a non-Union job, and those salts under the directive from the BM or Organizer to do their VERY BEST. Many Locals have forgotten that you catch more flies with sugar than poop. By the time the contractor finds out those four guys he hired last month that are doing so well are Union Salts, he may not care. 

I suppose that there may be Locals out there looking to file ULP's over trivial crap. BUT ALL ARE NOT THAT WAY!! Through good faith bargaining, and honestly seeking the win-win-win scenarios, we can save our Union and our industry. But if we continue to do what we have been doing, then we will continue to get what we have been getting... Diminished Market Share... Diminishing membership... Falling wages... Federal Laws overturning NLRA overtime language... Sub-standard work... And the list goes on.

I do not refute that the IBEW is not sometimes at fault, but I refute that we are always at fault, and that we are all the same. Some of us really take this stuff seriously! And if we ever get all 750,000 members on board, we may actually have a chance to do some real good!

Merry Christmas to ALL!!!:thumbup:


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*You are exactly RIGHT!!!!*



480sparky said:


> Now if you can get all your Brothers to quit trashing non-union electricians and posting untruths about us. After all 'this applies to all'.


And this brings me to another point (I'm really fired up this morning). All you Union guys need to listen to 480 Sparky! We are brothers (of a sort) in this trade. It's not the non-Union electricians that we should even have a problem with. As Brian John so aptly puts it...(He says it better than I) There are hacks in the Union, and really good non-union electricians! There are no absolutes here! I have tried my best to eliminate the term "rat" from my vocabulary. If I'm really fired up, it may come out, but I am genuinely sorry for this. Non-Union electricians are NOT THE ENEMY!!! The enemy is anyone who would take our right to "collectively bargain" (Chamber of Commerce). That is our only enemy. But all Chambers are not created equally, either. They are just like Local Unions, mostly because the Chamber is the most powerful Union in the Nation.

All Y'all quit hatin'!:whistling2:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> I know that things are different in areas where the Union controls the market share. But one of those differences shouldn't be the way our salts behave. I may piss of some of my "brothers" with this, but salts should never be sent to a job with the intention of wobbling it. If the IBEW Local in any area wants to be what it says it is (The Best, right?), we can't just say it, and it magically be true. We have to prove it. One of the best ways to do that is to put salts on a non-Union job, and those salts under the directive from the BM or Organizer to do their VERY BEST. Many Locals have forgotten that you catch more flies with sugar than poop. By the time the contractor finds out those four guys he hired last month that are doing so well are Union Salts, he may not care.
> 
> I suppose that there may be Locals out there looking to file ULP's over trivial crap. BUT ALL ARE NOT THAT WAY!! Through good faith bargaining, and honestly seeking the win-win-win scenarios, we can save our Union and our industry. But if we continue to do what we have been doing, then we will continue to get what we have been getting... Diminished Market Share... Diminishing membership... Falling wages... Federal Laws overturning NLRA overtime language... Sub-standard work... And the list goes on.
> 
> ...



This has been my experience with guys I know that have gone out as salts.
They are supposed to work hard and smart, not cause trouble.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> This has been my experience with guys I know that have gone out as salts.
> They are supposed to work hard and smart, not cause trouble.



I have never been to FL so I have to believe what you say about how it is there.  My own experience is 180 degrees different.

I do have to ask, why would the union or the salt want the salt to work hard and smart? I see no motivation to do so, and I see many reasons for them to do as much as they can to draw action against them from the company they are salting. 

Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all union or non-union guys, let’s all hope the upcoming year will be better for everyone of us.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> I have never been to FL so I have to believe what you say about how it is there.  My own experience is 180 degrees different.
> 
> I do have to ask, why would the union or the salt want the salt to work hard and smart? I see no motivation to do so, and I see many reasons for them to do as much as they can to draw action against them from the company they are salting.
> 
> Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all union or non-union guys, let’s all hope the upcoming year will be better for everyone of us.


Agree!


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## SRacerWV (Dec 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I do have to ask, why would the union or the salt want the salt to work hard and smart? I see no motivation to do so, and I see many reasons for them to do as much as they can to draw action against them from the company they are salting.
> 
> Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all union or non-union guys, let’s all hope the upcoming year will be better for everyone of us.


when a salt does well he stays on the job. The longer he is on a job the more information he can give out to the workers. He can also show the client and owner how well trained he is. It is not, I repeat, NOT the way of the union for a salt to go and cause trouble.That totally defeats the purpose of the salt to begin with.It's counter productive.

Bottom line here is this.The union is meant for the worker.To make his/her life better.That's it, period. It's when the union steps out of those bounds that we get into trouble and make ourselves look bad. I do apologize on behalf of all my brothers and sisters out there if this has happened to you. But know that we are not all like that.

Merry Christmas to you all and GOD bless...UNION TILL I DIE


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

it depends on if the union wants to bring a contractor into the fold, or if they want to put them out of business...

Bob's boss is hated by the IBEW...they probably figure he will never, ever go union...so their goal is to decimate him and take his work...

if the union thinks a contractor may sign up, they may send some useful labor over to show him the benefits...

but, up here in the NE, rarely is the 2nd option used...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

SRacerWV said:


> Bottom line here is this.The union is meant for the worker.To make his/her life better.That's it, period. It's when the union steps out of those bounds that we get into trouble and make ourselves look bad. I do apologize on behalf of all my brothers and sisters out there if this has happened to you. But know that we are not all like that.
> 
> Merry Christmas to you all and GOD bless...UNION TILL I DIE


that's the problem...too many union men/women think that it's an either/or scenerio...in order for their to be success, it has to benefit everyone involved...the unions need to benefit the contractor as well...


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

SRacerWV said:


> It is not, I repeat, NOT the way of the union for a salt to go and cause trouble. That totally defeats the purpose of the salt to begin with. It’s counterproductive.


I will not say that is not a fact in your area, but I will tell you that it not true here and in many places.

Often the goal of the salt is to cause so much trouble for a company that it goes under or gives up and goes union.

Really, you can bury you’re head in the sand and deny it but it does not change the truth.

That is fact may times.



> Bottom line here is this. The union is meant for the worker. To make his/her life better. That’s it, period.


How about when they show up when the workers are already happy and content?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

oldman said:


> Bob's boss is hated by the IBEW...


That is 100% correct.

103 even was nice enough to include him in their contractor hall of shame.

We all laughed as he treated us all very well, the real issue was he was taking more and more of 'thier' work.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> People who seek this kind of work need to understand that. There is no guarantee of 40 hours.


We had years and years of massive overtime jobs, the number of men I know that bought their houses based on their OT pay is disheartening. Now they are facing bank issues as many are not getting 40.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> That is 100% correct.
> 
> 103 even was nice enough to include him in their contractor hall of shame.
> 
> We all laughed as he treated us all very well, the real issue was he was taking more and more of 'thier' work.



Bob,
Are the conditions and benefits equal or better than the 99 or 103 contract?


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## SRacerWV (Dec 19, 2009)

oldman said:


> that's the problem...too many union men/women think that it's an either/or scenario...in order for their to be success, it has to benefit everyone involved...the unions need to benefit the contractor as well...


all of our contractors do very well...and I mean VERY WELL...when you have a group like NECA/IBEW working hand and hand then all will benefit from it...and it is an either or scenario. Either you are union or you are not. The mass of "open" shops have very poor conditions for their workers while that contractor rakes in bundles of money. A union contractor spreads the wealth more evenly and the workers are able to support a family and not have to worry about retirement or insurance. If you are in an "open" shop that takes care of you, then hold on to it. If you own an "open" shop then give the union a listen. Try and be open minded. You may just find out that the IBEW/NECA has more to offer than you think. Have their BA/BM take you to lunch and talk to you. At least show them that you are willing to listen. Then allow your workers to decide if they want to go union or not. If you have done this already, and they still don't want to be organized, then that should be the end of it. At least an effort was made on all sides.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Bob,
> Are the conditions and benefits equal or better than the 99 or 103 contract?


Conditions? IMO better at my employers.

Benifits? Likely better at my employers.

Hourly wage? Not as high as the 99 and 103 guys

Do 103 and 99 guys drag more money out of the company they work under then I do? Very likely.

Is money the only thing that I use to mesure my job and life satisfaction? No.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

SRacerWV said:


> .........you own an "open" shop then give the union a listen. Try and be open minded. ............


I have. Several times.

The first time, I was working on a buildout in a new mall. Two men stopped me in the middle of the day and asked if I was an electrician. I replied, "Yes." They asked if I was a journeyman. I replied, "No."

They then proceeded to tell me that the union could help me obtain my journeyman card. I told them I wasn't interested in taking two steps backwards. I think they still have the same deer-in-the-headlights loook today.


A couple years later, I was hired to wire a detached garage....... right next door to the union hall. Of course, the Brotherhood had to cut into my productivity again and bother me to inquire if I was Union or not. I told them I wasn't. They told me I should consider joining. I asked, "Why?" They said, "We can get you more money!"

I stopped cold, pointed towards the builder and said, "Well, there's Dave over there. He's the one that hired me, so he's the one that's gonna pay me. Go tell him I want more money."

They responded with, "You mean you're not an employee?" I said, "No, I own the company."

"Oh," one replied,"Then we can't help you."


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> Wrong again, Brian


You cannot assume I am wrong based on your experiences. I can only tell you what I have seen or know of.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

SRacerWV said:


> all of our contractors do very well...and I mean VERY WELL...when you have a group like NECA/IBEW working hand and hand then all will benefit from it...and it is an either or scenario. Either you are union or you are not. The mass of "open" shops have very poor conditions for their workers while that contractor rakes in bundles of money. A union contractor spreads the wealth more evenly and the workers are able to support a family and not have to worry about retirement or insurance. If you are in an "open" shop that takes care of you, then hold on to it. If you own an "open" shop then give the union a listen. Try and be open minded. You may just find out that the IBEW/NECA has more to offer than you think. Have their BA/BM take you to lunch and talk to you. At least show them that you are willing to listen. Then allow your workers to decide if they want to go union or not. If you have done this already, and they still don't want to be organized, then that should be the end of it. At least an effort was made on all sides.


i am moving to WVA...it's eutopia...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

oldman said:


> i am moving to WVA...it's eutopia...


I love West VA (SERIOUSLY) but they lead then nation in NOTHING positive with the exception of being God's Country. Education, health, wages, bottom of the barrel Now in mountain topping they lead the nation.

http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Conditions? IMO better at my employers.
> 
> Benifits? Likely better at my employers.
> 
> ...


Ok working conditions are equal.

Pay is less.
How much less and why?
Overtime after 8 hours or after 40 hours?

Benefits better?
Would that mean paid family medical/ dental/vision?
Paid Pension plan? (Not a self paid 401)

I know that some non-union shops give 2 weeks vacation and 5-7 holidays
It depends on the pay rate of how much that is worth.

What happens to the guys when a job lays off?
Do they look for a job on their own or is there some other type of national referral system that is used?

Thanks,

John


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

brian john said:


> I love West VA (SERIOUSLY) but they lead then nation in NOTHING positive with the exception of being God's Country. Education, health, wages, bottom of the barrel Now in mountain topping they lead the nation.
> 
> http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/



Dig Baby Dig!!


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Ok working conditions are equal.


IMO better, for the most part here union workers always seem grumpy and pissed off at the company they are working under. A feeling of constant tension due to the 'us vs them' mentality. At least that has always been my impression.



> Pay is less.


 Yes, my hourly is less.



> How much less


 It's higher then 99s residential rate and quite a bit lower then 103s Boston rate.



> and why?


Because I am not a in a group that extorts higher than the market wages.



> Overtime after 8 hours or after 40 hours?


After 40.



> Benefits better?


 Yes



> Would that mean paid family medical/ dental/vision?


Yes, absolutely.



> Paid Pension plan? (Not a self paid 401)


No pension, of course the union pensions always work out perfectly. :no:

I have 401K that the company kicks into as long as I do.



> I know that some non-union shops give 2 weeks vacation and 5-7 holidays


When times where good we would get 13 paid holidays, last year I think 11 and 2010 we will be down to 9 or 10. (This does not count the number of times I have been told to take off with pay.)

I have had three weeks paid for the last 10 years, it was just cut to two weeks paid.


I have no problem with that, I think it is ridiculous that the union feels no matter what the economy is that their 'package' shall remain the same. That is not free market that is some sort of socialism that I find absurd.




> What happens to the guys when a job lays off?


Well up until one year ago that has not been an issue, I and the guys I work with have been busy for about 12 years at least.


Now,.... yes many have been laid off.



> Do they look for a job on their own or is there some other type of national referral system that is used?


When you run out of groceries at the house does some national organization help you find you're way to the store?

I am a man, I can find my own work. I do not need a union to hold my hand, rub my head and tell me everything is going to be OK while at the same time picking my pocket so the BA and his minions can sit in a comfy office.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> It's higher then 99s residential rate and quite a bit lower then 103s Boston rate.
> 
> Because I am not a in a group that extorts higher than the market wages.


Sounds like Kool-Aid to me:laughing:

Maybe you are OK at the very top but, how is the average working guy doing? You know, the ones that dont have time to post on these forums all day long?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Because I am not a in a group that extorts higher than the market wages.


What do you think about people that cross a boarder into someones area that has established wages based on the local standard of living and work for much less money?
Could you exist on the wages electricians make in the South? What if they came up to the NE and worked for less just to cut you out and take your job?
Would you try to educate them in micro economics or just hand them the keys to your house and truck?

Im not saying this is just about electrical work. It could be about picking crops, plucking chickens or sewing shirts.


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## SRacerWV (Dec 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I have no problem with that, I think it is ridiculous that the union feels no matter what the economy is that their 'package' shall remain the same. That is not free market that is some sort of socialism that I find absurd.


we have reduced our wages and package several times in the past, and if need be, will do it again to allow our contractors to be more aggressive on bids. obviously its working because i am working. cant speak for any other local, but im sure that they have had to do it as well


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jrannis said:


> What do you think about people that cross a boarder into someones area that has established wages based on the local standard of living and work for much less money?
> Could you exist on the wages electricians make in the South? What if they came up to the NE and worked for less just to cut you out and take your job?
> Would you try to educate them in micro economics or just hand them the keys to your house and truck?
> 
> Im not saying this is just about electrical work. It could be about picking crops, plucking chickens or sewing shirts.


In many parts of the country, local & state licensing takes care of the 'under-the-radar' workers. An AHJ has the authority to card everyone on a job site. THAT keeps the riff-raff out.

Besides, you don't need years of experience and test results to obtain a license to pick crops, pluck chickens or sew shirts, so the comparison is worthless.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> What do you think about people that cross a boarder into someones area that has established wages based on the local standard of living and work for much less money?


I think existing laws should be enforced and in this area that seems to be true. Massachusetts basic electrical licensing rules require at least one licensed person for each apprentice. 





> Could you exist on the wages electricians make in the South?


No, not while living here.



> What if they came up to the NE and worked for less just to cut you out and take your job?



Well first off it tries to happen and has made me work, WalMart sent some electricians from Arkansas up to this area to do electrical work, they got caught and we got our normal rate to do the work for them.

Second off if their plan was to come up here and work for the same money they did down there they are idiots that will not last long, they will be living on the street.




> Would you try to educate them in micro economics or just hand them the keys to your house and truck?


I believe in a freer market then you do I am responsible for my own situation, I do not blame it on others and I do not expect others to look out for me.


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## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

Back to the original question. Got canned the 23rd. Merry Christmas, here's your check. I'm # 209 on book 1 in Milwaukee. Looks like a year or more to get out.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

*From IBEW 103 Web Site*

I wanted to see what their version is:


The Contractor Hall of Shame is to inform electricians and the general public of some of the irresponsible and unethical activities of electrical contractors in the Greater Boston area. Most of this unethical behavior begins when the employees of the contractor begin a union organizing campaign.

What happens when workers try to exercise their right to join a union?

Today, workers who try to organize a union are denied the most basic rights of free speech, free press and freedom of assembly. The election process that is supervised by the National Labor Relations Board is a joke. Employers know this so they routinely engage in a variety of unethical and illegal tactics, such as:


Firing workers who support the union.
Hold "captive audience" meetings so that company management can make anti-union speeches and show anti-union videos and distribute anti-union literature. Most of this anti-union information are outright lies designed to make the employees distrust the union.
Intimidate and harass workers who exercise their legal right to support the union.
Threaten to close the shop if the union is voted in.
Delay the union election for months; once the union wins recognition, refuse to negotiate a first contract.
As you can see, basic human and civil rights are denied to more than 44 million workers who want to join a union. This activity must stop. One weapon is to expose these employers who deny their workers' basic constitutional rights.

http://www.ibew103.com/node/631


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I wanted to see what their version is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems logical to me, if I owned a shop and wanted to remain free of union PIA's.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

brian john said:


> Seems logical to me, if I owned a shop and wanted to remain free of union PIA's.


But we all know that you enjoy the pain 

I know that its not easy to write that every month


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I think existing laws should be enforced and in this area that seems to be true. Massachusetts basic electrical licensing rules require at least one licensed person for each apprentice.


Who made up these laws that protect your trade?


[/quote]I believe in a freer market then you do I am responsible for my own situation, I do not blame it on others and I do not expect others to look out for me.[/quote]

That is a very Utopian thought but, not every one can be at the top of a company.
But,
We need well trained people that have a basic set of tools and knowledge that can be called upon when we need them and let go of when we are done with a project.
For me, it is easier to pay guys top wages when I need them and then when the job is done we all shake hands and "see each other on the next one."
Another way to do it is keep everybody around as long as you can and pay them as little as you can get away with. They will always take a pay cut or work overtime because they dont have anywhere else to go.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Who made up these laws that protect your trade?


Typical union attitude, the point of those laws is not to 'protect my trade' the point is to protect people from incorrect wiring practices.

I have no doubt that back in the day the union lobbied for these rules for their own self interest just like I am sure the non-union companies did as well.



iwire said:


> I believe in a freer market then you do I am responsible for my own situation, I do not blame it on others and I do not expect others to look out for me.





> That is a very Utopian thought


No, that is a realistic thought. You seem to feel you can contractually produce a utopia where everyone will get as much pay as they want without regard to market conditions. That is short sighted, self indulgent and cannot be done.




> but, not every one can be at the top of a company.


No, not everyone can and those that cannot _DO NOT DESERVE_ the top pay or bennis of those that can. Life has always been, and should always remain a competition, that is how the best of our human abilities are brought out.

_I_ would like to be, and live the life of, a rock star, but I do not have the talent or the hook to make that happen ... oh well life is tough. Maybe I should try to get a rule passed that becuse I want that life I should get it.  



> But,
> We need well trained people that have a basic set of tools and knowledge that can be called upon when we need them and let go of when we are done with a project.


Again you are making an assumption based on your own experience that only union guys are well trained. That is not the case where I am.

The reason the companies I work for end up doing work that has been traditionally union is because we are as well trained and disciplined as the union .......... _and_ we can provide that cheaper and often without the other baggage that can, and often does accompany union workers.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> ........Maybe I should try to get a rule passed that becuse I want that life I should get it. ..........


You have someone on your side, Bob:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ralpha494 said:


> Back to the original question. Got canned the 23rd. Merry Christmas, here's your check. I'm # 209 on book 1 in Milwaukee. Looks like a year or more to get out.


What will you do? Are you planning on finding work?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Back to the original topic:

You would not believe the quality of guys on the book here. There are guys who have never seen the book before, and have worked for the same shop 10+ years, now out of work on the book.

It is ugly, as some shops are hurting bad, and others are buying work to keep their men busy.

I hope it picks up sooner rather than later, the contractors need to put a ton of non-union guys to work who signed the book before most of last years layoffs hit. In this local, there is no preferential treatment allowed from the dispatcher, if you live in the area and completed an approved apprenticeship, you are allowed to sign book 1, end of story. Believe me, I got no right to complain about the policy.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> What will you do?


He will do what he needs to do, and his good brother will provide him a good reference.


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> What will you do? Are you planning on finding work?


 
What a question!


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

Badger you sound like such a loser how do you look in the mirror dude? I take less pay because thats the right thing ha jerk. I take non union work because union contractors are extoritionest. Jerk off. Are you mentaly slow? Small bus to school? You do what your told your the puppet pal.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

minibdr said:


> Badger you sound like such a loser how do you look in the mirror dude? I take less pay because thats the right thing ha jerk. I take non union work because union contractors are extoritionest. Jerk off. Are you mentaly slow? Small bus to school? You do what your told your the puppet pal.


You funny!:thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> You funny!:thumbup:


He's not so think as you drunk he is.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob.. keep it up and you will be the first RAT to make that "Wall Of Shame" :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

minibdr said:


> Badger you sound like such a loser how do you look in the mirror dude?



minibdr, where did you go, I thought we where going to have an intelligent discourse?


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

:laughing:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)




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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> minibdr, where did you go, I thought we where going to have an intelligent discourse?


i think he's looking at himself in the mirror...he's good...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> minibdr, where did you go, I thought we where going to have an intelligent discourse?


He might be changing into his alter ego.. MightyMouth


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

minibdr said:


> Badger you sound like such a loser how do you look in the mirror dude? I take less pay because thats the right thing ha jerk. I take non union work because union contractors are extoritionest. Jerk off. Are you mentaly slow? Small bus to school? You do what your told your the puppet pal.


And he is one of the smart ones at the top.
Imagine the mentality of all the minions.................


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

jrannis said:


> And he is one of the smart ones at the top.
> Imagine the mentality of all the minions.................


are we sure that minibdr is one of the smart ones at the top?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> And he is one of the smart ones at the top.
> Imagine the mentality of all the minions.................


Yeah thats right, if someone sees the world different from you they _must_ have some sort of problem. 


Imagine the mentality of people that take responsibility for themselves and not rely on some big brother to take care of them. My kind of folks.:thumbsup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Imagine the mentality of people that take responsibility for themselves and not rely on some big brother to take care of them. My kind of folks.:thumbsup:


Or da big boss man:laughing:

Gots to keep his shoes shined:thumbsup:


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> When you run out of groceries at the house does some national organization help you find you're way to the store?
> 
> I am a man, I can find my own work. I do not need a union to hold my hand, rub my head and tell me everything is going to be OK while at the same time picking my pocket so the BA and his minions can sit in a comfy office.


Bob-

The highest level of maturity is interdependence. Even the Bible says so... So you can go on being an island if you like, but one man simply cannot do what many men can. Sorry. 

The world is made up of two basic types of people. "Me" people, and "We" people. "We" people believe in a team effort, and regard each other in high standard. "Me" people always look out for themselves, no matter what. 

This whole country is a Union. The NRA, the Chamber of Commerce, the American Dental Association... All Unions. If you detest Unions so much, why don't you go somewhere that there aren't any, like Mexico or China? I'm not being sarcastic or mean... I'm being serious. The whole American system is predicated on the Union philosophy, though many people would disagree (People still disagree that Global Warming is an issue, but that doesn't make it go away, or change the facts). 

According to the American Standard Dictionary, a Union is a group of people that come together for a common cause. What on Earth is wrong with that?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> ..............This whole country is a Union. The NRA, the Chamber of Commerce, the American Dental Association... All Unions. ..........


Does the NRA regard me as one who is incapable of properly handling my firearms because I walk into a gun show and I refuse to become a member?

Does the local PTA seem to think I do not have benefits from my employment solely because 'someone told them' that?

Does the Chamber of Commerce consider me a sub-standard human being because I own a business but do not attend their meetings?

Do the members of my next-door-neighbor's book club key my truck and slash my tires because I have no interest in their activities?

Does the ADA call me a RAT because I have not attended _their_ classes on how to brush and floss my teeth?

Is there a giant, inflatable rat erected in my front yard because I use Carlon blue boxes?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Or da big boss man:laughing:
> 
> Gots to keep his shoes shined:thumbsup:


You are talking out you're ass and have no idea what you are saying in regards to how I deal with my boss.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> Bob-
> 
> The highest level of maturity is interdependence. Even the Bible says so...


The Bible is also against socialistic principles and preaches the message of being content with what you have and not sowing discord between yourself and your master. Seems to me that is the antithesis of the union philosophy. 

You can try to use the Bible to defend unions, but unions are fundamentally anti-Christian and anti-Biblical.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> Bob-
> 
> The highest level of maturity is interdependence. Even the Bible says so... So you can go on being an island if you like, but one man simply cannot do what many men can. Sorry.


Like extort higher than market wages?

But now I understand, the union is on a _mission from God_:no: 



> The world is made up of two basic types of people. "Me" people, and "We" people. "We" people believe in a team effort, and regard each other in high standard. "Me" people always look out for themselves, no matter what.


The union is only concerned with itself and it members, that makes it a 'me group'



> This whole country is a Union. The NRA, the Chamber of Commerce, the American Dental Association... All Unions. If you detest Unions so much, why don't you go somewhere that there aren't any, like Mexico or China?


I am not trying to stop any union I am just saying it is not for me.

America is big enough for both union and non.





> The whole American system is predicated on the Union philosophy, though many people would disagree


That is a load of crap. 





> According to the American Standard Dictionary, a Union is a group of people that come together for a common cause.


The common cause (at this point in time, not past history) is to get more and more without any regard to what it does to anyone outside the union.

There was a time when the goals of the union where noble, that time has long since passed.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

this country was founded on individuals risking everything they had for a better life...not communism...


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*I don't know... They might.*



480sparky said:


> Does the NRA regard me as one who is incapable of properly handling my firearms because I walk into a gun show and I refuse to become a member?
> 
> Does the local PTA seem to think I do not have benefits from my employment solely because 'someone told them' that?
> 
> ...


Seems like you have a lot of questions! And the answers are "Maybe". Except the last one. You need to look out your window to answer that one. 

I am sorry that you have been beat-up sooo badly by the guys that only control about 7% of the work in this Nation. What are you really scared of? I never called you a Rat. I do not like the term. I find it ugly and distasteful. And furthermore, I don't slash tires, and would hope that any brother or sister that does is promptly carried away in handcuffs. Some members of the IBEW LOVE to PLAY Union, but they know nothing of being in a Union. I am appalled at what our members sometimes do. But I am more appalled with greed, and the propensity for non-Union shops to USE PEOPLE, often against each other. And before you immature trouble-makers jump all over this... NOT ALL NON_UNION SHOPS ARE THAT WAY. Some shops may not even need a Union, and that's fine. In a perfect world, no one would ever need a Union, because greed would not be at the helm of corporate America. 

There are NO ABSOLUTES, folks. Many of you here (on both sides) speak in absolutes. This world is not black and white, but rather many different shades of gray. Try to approach these conversations with a little more maturity, please.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> Seems like you have a lot of questions! And the answers are "Maybe". Except the last one. You need to look out your window to answer that one.


I was simply pointing out the absurdity of comparing the IBEW to the ADA.



boulengerina said:


> I am sorry that you have been beat-up sooo badly by the guys that only control about 7% of the work in this Nation


Nobody's beaten me up at all. I've been called names simply because I'm not a "Brother", and my work seems to be substandard in the views of some "Brothers".



boulengerina said:


> What are you really scared of?


Who said I was scared?



boulengerina said:


> I never called you a Rat.


I never said you did.



boulengerina said:


> I do not like the term. I find it ugly and distasteful. And furthermore, I don't slash tires, and would hope that any brother or sister that does is promptly carried away in handcuffs.


This demostrates the way the public views the Unions and their apparent lack of internal policing of their members. By turning a blind eye toward this type of behaviour, they are only damaging their image.



boulengerina said:


> Some members of the IBEW LOVE to PLAY Union, but they know nothing of being in a Union. I am appalled at what our members sometimes do. But I am more appalled with greed, and the propensity for non-Union shops to USE PEOPLE, often against each other. And before you immature trouble-makers jump all over this... NOT ALL NON_UNION SHOPS ARE THAT WAY. Some shops may not even need a Union, and that's fine. In a perfect world, no one would ever need a Union, because greed would not be at the helm of corporate America.


I have no doubt there are some who join the Union just so they can play the 'tough-guy' part on the picket line.



boulengerina said:


> There are NO ABSOLUTES, folks. Many of you here (on both sides) speak in absolutes. This world is not black and white, but rather many different shades of gray. Try to approach these conversations with a little more maturity, please.


And what childish statements have I uttered against the unions?


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*Sorry Bob... You just don't know, do you?*



Bob Badger said:


> Like extort higher than market wages?
> 
> But now I understand, the union is on a _mission from God_:no:
> 
> ...


My goodness... You really are bitter. And America is a Nation of people who (originally) came together for a common purpose, and we pay dues (taxes). Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but that's the way it is.

And for you to assume that all Unions (or Locals, for that matter) are the same only proves your immaturity. There is no extortion here. IBEW Construction Locals DO NOT STRIKE!!!! Most of our contractors nationwide can WALK OUT OF THEIR AGREEMENTS ANY TIME THEY CHOOSE. If you can't figure out how to make a buck as a Union shop, then that's your problem. We have many here that are actually WAAAYYYYY more successful than their non-union counterparts. Millionaires, actually. Some are even STILL MEMBERS!!! You may have it bad where you are, I don't know. But here, we are blessed. We work with our contractors CONTINUOUSLY to be sure that they are getting the manpower that they need, and to identify those areas where our members may lack particular skills so that we may train them. 

REALLY. THAT'S IT! And we do not beat-up on non-Union electricians here. It isn't their fault. If the blame belongs to anyone, it belongs to us for not doing more to educate the non-union boys (& girls) out there. You may be right about everything with regards to where you live and where you work, but it isn't that way everywhere. Thought you'd like to know.:whistling2:


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*That's right*



oldman said:


> this country was founded on individuals risking everything they had for a better life...not communism...


You are right. Who's a commie? I know that you aren't referring to Unions. The only "ism" that we stand for is Unionism. 

I've gone back and looked at a lot of your posts and replies, and this may be the singlemost IMMATURE thing that you've ever said. If you wish to have an intelligent conversation, then do so. But don't be stupid.

By the way.... Unions didn't sell HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of American jobs to COMMUNIST CHINA. The republicans did. During the six years that they controlled the US Government, they didn't accomplish anything that they said they would during their campaigns, but they did give AMERICAN CORPORATIONS TAX BREAKS TO MOVE THEIR OPERATIONS OVERSEAS. Most of that went to China. So thanks to the wrong-wing, we now support communism. Good job, boys.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> And what childish statements have I uttered against the unions?


Not aimed at you as much as everyone else. But your original reply was a little silly. You seem to think according to what you wrote, that the ADA cares about your electrical work. I'm not even sure that makes sense, but hey, you wrote it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> Not aimed at you as much as everyone else. But your original reply was a little silly. You seem to think according to what you wrote, that the ADA cares about your electrical work. I'm not even sure that makes sense, but hey, you wrote it.


I seriously doubt the ADA really cares about my electrical work, so no, I wouldn't say it's 'silly'.

My point was: The comparison was made between the IBEW and the ADA. But I've never had any member of the ADA call me a rat.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The Bible is also against socialistic principles and preaches the message of being content with what you have and not sowing discord between yourself and your master. Seems to me that is the antithesis of the union philosophy.
> 
> You can try to use the Bible to defend unions, but unions are fundamentally anti-Christian and anti-Biblical.


The Bible also says that I can own slaves and beat my wife. And I am sure that Jesus was all about profit-margins! Wow! Are you serious? 

Let's go back to the DEFINITION of a Union. It is a group of people or entities that come together for a common purpose. Sound familiar? If not, you likely don't go to Church. 

We don't "sow discord". It is a fact, however, that life isn't perfect, and sometimes there is discord. If in a Union, there are people to share the discord with, and more thoughts on a potential solution. But I forgot... non-union shops NEVER have any discord. You just keep on believin' that!

I can't take this seriously... too funny.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> You are right. Who's a commie? I know that you aren't referring to Unions. The only "ism" that we stand for is Unionism.
> 
> I've gone back and looked at a lot of your posts and replies, and this may be the singlemost IMMATURE thing that you've ever said. If you wish to have an intelligent conversation, then do so. But don't be stupid.
> 
> By the way.... Unions didn't sell HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of American jobs to COMMUNIST CHINA. The republicans did. During the six years that they controlled the US Government, they didn't accomplish anything that they said they would during their campaigns, but they did give AMERICAN CORPORATIONS TAX BREAKS TO MOVE THEIR OPERATIONS OVERSEAS. Most of that went to China. So thanks to the wrong-wing, we now support communism. Good job, boys.


are you serious? you rewrite history and then claim that I've said something immature? 

i disagree with moving manufacturing to china/mexico/india/etc...but, imagine the cost of living if all products were made in the good old US of A, at union wages? 

what you fail to realize is that there is a direct correlation between COGS and purchasing power.....you would have to earn $250,000 a year just to be above poverty (ok, that's an exaggeration, but you get my point)...

as for communism, yes, the unions are on the verge...it's about wealth distribution to them (you)...see around here, there are more union contractors out of business than there are millionaires...

maybe there is just a different attitude in the locals around here, and if you are being honest about your local, than fantastic...

however, i think your version is based less of 1st hand knowledge of what really occurs between the local and the contractor, and more on what the local tells you...


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> The Bible also says that I can own slaves and beat my wife. And I am sure that Jesus was all about profit-margins! Wow! Are you serious?


No, are _you_ serious? Can you show me a verse or two where you can beat your wife and where Jesus was "all about profit margins?" Oh, and slavery was common in the ancient world, hence why the Bible talks about it so much. 




> Let's go back to the DEFINITION of a Union. It is a group of people or entities that come together for a common purpose. Sound familiar? If not, you likely don't go to Church.


Actually, I do. My pastor regularly preaches against the evils and corruption of unions. :thumbsup:



> We don't "sow discord".


Right. Threatening to go on strike and demanding higher pay for all regardless of individual performance or market conditions isn't sowing discord. Gotcha! Makes perfect sense!


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> My goodness... You really are bitter.


No just stating my experiences and opinions on the mater and that seems to bother some.






> America is a Nation of people who (originally) came together for a common purpose, and we pay dues (taxes). Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but that's the way it is


.

I have no idea what you're point was in the above.





> And for you to assume that all Unions (or Locals, for that matter) are the same only proves your immaturity.


I have never said that and if you look back at my posts in this thread I have mentioned a number of times I do not know how it is in other areas.




> There is no extortion here. IBEW Construction Locals DO NOT STRIKE!!!!


Call it whatever you want the end result is the same, was the union able to force the employers to pay more?

Yes, now go take a look at the definition of extortion.





> We have many here that are actually WAAAYYYYY more successful than their non-union counterparts. Millionaires, actually. Some are even STILL MEMBERS!!!


And that has to do with my experience here how? I am an hourly worker not an owner.




> You may have it bad where you are, I don't know.


No I have it fine here, I just do not appreciate union guys getting in between me and the job. Or harassing me just because I do not want to be in their club.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Peter D said:


> .... demanding higher pay for all regardless of individual performance or market conditions ....


Sounds like communism.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Actually, I do. My pastor regularly preaches against the evils and corruption of unions. :thumbsup:
> 
> !


!
Good god, what a thread.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> No just stating my experiences and opinions on the mater and that seems to bother some.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> The Bible also says that I can own slaves and beat my wife. And I am sure that Jesus was all about profit-margins! Wow! Are you serious?
> 
> Let's go back to the DEFINITION of a Union. It is a group of people or entities that come together for a common purpose. Sound familiar? If not, you likely don't go to Church.
> 
> ...


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> !
> Good god, what a thread.


LOL, and you read it. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> !
> Good god, what a thread.



:sleep1:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


>





Rudeboy said:


>





Rudeboy said:


>


Try going here.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> LOL, and you read it. :laughing:


haha, not the whole thing. I've read this thread before in other threads. It's a repeat, and lame.
Anti-union and anti-open shop slugging it out again.

You guys need to shush.
:laughing:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Try going here.


It's would almost be comedic if it wasn't so pathetic.
(this thread)
I like Pixar though.:thumbup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> It's would almost be comedic if it wasn't so pathetic.
> (this thread)


:sleep1:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Peter D said:


> :sleep1:


Pathetic.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> It's would almost be comedic if it wasn't so pathetic.


And who you calling pathetic?




Quote:
Originally Posted by *Rudeboy* 
__

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Rudeboy* 
__

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Rudeboy* 
__


*How about a photo of the person holding a gun to your head forcing you to read this?*


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> It's would almost be comedic if it wasn't so pathetic.
> (this thread)
> I like Pixar though.:thumbup:


the fantastic thing about this country, at least at this time, is that you are free to not read it...

now, the way we are going, there is a good chance that in the near future, there will be a government mandate to read this thread...but for now, you are free to ignore it...


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

oldman said:


> the fantastic thing about this country, at least at this time, is that you are free to not read it...
> 
> now, the way we are going, there is a good chance that in the near future, there will be a government mandate to read this thread...but for now, you are free to ignore it...



More political bolshoi.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Pathetic.


:yawn:


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

more bitching about something you don't need to read...who's fault is that?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

boulengerina:

I do not know your position with your local, worker, or union official, but you post seem to reflect how your local works and as I have said in the past this seems to be a decent local. But realize not all locals work like yours and it appears (from my experience) the further north you go above Washington DC and DC is a pro worker/employer local, the more they forget it needs to be a team effort.

Not all workers want to be union for a variety of reasons, I have talked with numerous open shop men and tried to sway them into the local, some say HELL yes, others saw no, some say hell no, some say fu*k off asshole. Some I have asked why the hard stance others I just leave them alone.

I will tell you this and I have said this in this forum for at least a 1000 time, in many cases the union has done more to damage their reputation than any so called RAT shop (open shop freedom of choice) could ever do.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> And who you calling pathetic?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a joke. So you're telling me that I shouldn't be able to express my point of view on how pathetic you guys are being? And besides, you smilie post more than anyone on this site.
480, you used to take a middle of the road stance on these types of threads. What gives?


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

oldman said:


> more bitching about something you don't need to read...who's fault is that?


I can read whatever I want. It's not about a matter of need.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> ..........480, you used to take a middle of the road stance on these types of threads. What gives?


I'm still middle of the road. What makes you think I'm not?

Have I started a crusade to destroy the unions? Demanding that everyone bail on them and become merit shop employees? Do I call Union members names simply because they 'belong'? Do I go to picket lines and inflate a giant inflatable slug?


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I can read whatever I want. It's not about a matter of need.


yet, you feel the need to tell others to stop talking about this because it bothers you...

don't let the irony hit you too hard...


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> More political bolshoi.


:sleep1:



Rudeboy said:


> What a joke. So you're telling me that I shouldn't be able to express my point of view on how pathetic you guys are being? And besides, you smilie post more than anyone on this site.
> 480, you used to take a middle of the road stance on these types of threads. What gives?


:sleep1:



Rudeboy said:


> I can read whatever I want. It's not about a matter of need.


:sleep1:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I'm still middle of the road. What makes you think I'm not?
> 
> Have I started a crusade to destroy the unions? Demanding that everyone bail on them and become merit shop employees? Do I call Union members names simply because they 'belong'? Do I go to picket lines and inflate a giant inflatable slug?


It seems like in every one of your posts (in this thread)you have come across as against the union posters' philosophy. The other guys are very obviously anti-union but you sort of skate a fine line. I've worked for open-shops (three of them) my whole ten years of my electrical career, so I'm not a union guy by any stretch of the imagination but do I sit here and sh-t on them for being union? no.

There's a reason why union guys don't want to post in this section of the forum, I mean you guys tear apart everyone of their threads.


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

so, we should sit back and let propaganda be posted unchecked? that seems to be what you are saying...and yes, it is the propaganda that gets challenged...


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

oldman said:


> yet, you feel the need to tell others to stop talking about this because it bothers you...
> 
> don't let the irony hit you too hard...


It doesn't personally bother me, it's just very repetitive.

What I'd like to read in this section of the forum is something that has to do with union issues rather than a bunch of anti-union guys talking about how un-american someone is for being in a union.

This coming from an open-shop guy with zero aspirations of joining any union of any kind. I just want to know about their experiences.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

oldman said:


> so, we should sit back and let propaganda be posted unchecked? that seems to be what you are saying...and yes, it is the propaganda that gets challenged...


Fine, for the sake of argument let's say that's true. Why do you feel the need to challenge it, in every stinking thread? We know your opinion.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

oldman said:


> so, we should sit back and let propaganda be posted unchecked?


Probably not,

But I think it is time for me to spend alot more time in the BUSINESS sub-forum, where you and your twink pals have conversations without guys like ME rudely butting in.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> It seems like in every one of your posts (in this thread)you have come across as against the union posters' philosophy. The other guys are very obviously anti-union but you sort of skate a fine line. I've worked for open-shops (three of them) my whole ten years of my electrical career, so I'm not a union guy by any stretch of the imagination but do I sit here and sh-t on them for being union? no.
> 
> There's a reason why union guys don't want to post in this section of the forum, I mean you guys tear apart everyone of their threads.


I 'skate a fine line'? For the record, I'm NOT anti-Union. I am NON-union. There's a difference.

For instance, I don't care for golf. I don't play it, and it doesn't interest me and I cannot understand the attraction it holds for some. If I had cable or satellite, the Golf Channel would be programmed out of my receiver. But do I demand that golf be erased from the face of the earth? No. If you want to go play golf, have fun. Especially if you enjoy it. More power to you. Just don't demand I go ruin a perfectly good stroll by introducing a silver stick and a little white ball into the mix.

By the same token, I don't care for unions. I don't want to joint, I don't feel compelled to join and they have nothing beneficial to offer me. But I am not demanding they be erased from the face of the earth either. If you want to join, go right ahead. It's a free country. Just don't demean me, belittle my work and call me a rat just because I'm not standing there in line with you signing up.

Now, when I use the word 'you', I don't mean you personally, Rudeboy. I mean everyone.


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Fine, for the sake of argument let's say that's true. Why do you feel the need to challenge it, in every stinking thread? We know your opinion.


because, if it's not challenged, it's accepted as true...


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I 'skate a fine line'? For the record, I'm NOT anti-Union. I am NON-union. There's a difference.
> 
> For instance, I don't care for golf. I don't play it, and it doesn't interest me and I cannot understand the attraction it holds for some. If I had cable or satellite, the Golf Channel would be programmed out of my receiver. But do I demand that golf be erased from the face of the earth? No. If you want to go play golf, have fun. Especially if you enjoy it. More power to you. Just don't demand I go ruin a perfectly good stroll by introducing a silver stick and a little white ball into the mix.
> 
> ...


I agree with about 95% of what you said (including golf). But don't you have a little, just a little interest in what union electricians experiences are without every thread turning into some pissing match?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I agree with about 95% of what you said (including golf). But don't you have a little, just a little interest in what union electricians experiences are without every thread turning into some pissing match?


First, what 5% don't you agree with?


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Why do you feel the need to challenge it, in every stinking thread? We know your opinion.


This is a discussion forum, I do not have to explain to you why I want to discus things.

Why do you want to be called RudeBoy?

Why did you choose that avatar?

Why do you wear those shirts?

Why do you ask 'Why do you feel the need to challenge it, in every stinking thread?'

If you do not wish to participate in this silliness then do not.:no:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> First, what 5% don't you agree with?


I didn't calculate the percentage, it was a rough estimate. You said "I don't care for unions". I have some care for unions.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> This is a discussion forum, I do not have to explain to you why I want to discus things.
> 
> Why do you want to be called RudeBoy?
> 
> ...


Because I'm a rudeboy.
I like Eames chairs.
Because I'm friggin stylish.
Cause challenging it in every thread is repetitive. (said that already)


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I didn't calculate the percentage, it was a rough estimate. You said "I don't care for unions". I have some care for unions.


 
OK. I have some feelings towards the union.

For instance, more than once they have walked onto my job and started talking to me, asking about my union affilliation (or lack thereof) and whether or not I'm a Journeyman. Sorry, guys.....I get paid to do a job, and talking to some stranger about the union is not in my bid. So they cost me efficiency. Lower efficiency equates to less money. Not money out of my boss's pocket. Money out of my pocket.
 
The local newspaper doesn't walk onto my job site and solicit my subscription. Optometrists do not walk onto my job site and try to set up an eye exam for me. And I have yet to buy Girl Scout cookies while running a trencher.

Does that take care of your (roughly) 5%?


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> OK. I have some feelings towards the union.
> 
> For instance, more than once they have walked onto my job and started talking to me, asking about my union affilliation (or lack thereof) and whether or not I'm a Journeyman. Sorry, guys.....I get paid to do a job, and talking to some stranger about the union is not in my bid. So they cost me efficiency. Lower efficiency equates to less money. Not money out of my boss's pocket. Money out of my pocket.
> 
> ...


Not one time has a union guy walked onto my job-site to talk to me, not once. Many times homeless guys have walked onto the site and asked me to "donate" scrap though. So, I feel your pain, well, my boss feels your pain.:whistling2:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Not one time has a union guy walked onto my job-site to talk to me, not once. Many times homeless guys have walked onto the site and asked me to "donate" scrap though. So, I feel your pain, well, my boss feels your pain.:whistling2:


Then I would consider you 'lucky'.

And yes, I have the usual hobos and homeless asking for handouts, but that's besides the point.


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

oldman said:


> are you serious? you rewrite history and then claim that I've said something immature?
> 
> i disagree with moving manufacturing to china/mexico/india/etc...but, imagine the cost of living if all products were made in the good old US of A, at union wages?
> 
> ...


Trust me... The knowledge is obtained first hand. And Union-made products are not always more expensive than the foreign crap. Take Ford trucks for example. Or light bulbs. Or clothing. Do the research yourself, and quit parroting nonsense. Or if you really think that Americans are over-paid, and it is the Unions fault (Even you must know that Unions drive wages... even non-union wages!), then you can always move out!


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> boulengerina:
> 
> I do not know your position with your local, worker, or union official, but you post seem to reflect how your local works and as I have said in the past this seems to be a decent local. But realize not all locals work like yours and it appears (from my experience) the further north you go above Washington DC and DC is a pro worker/employer local, the more they forget it needs to be a team effort.
> 
> ...


And you already know that I agree with you about our reputation. And furthermore, most of the guys that I interview, I would NOT WANT IN THE UNION! And please quit using the term "Rat". Some of us REALLY HAVE tried very hard to eliminate that term from our vocabularies, as it is degrading. I realize that all Locals are not like this one. And I am very sorry for that. If I had my way, all Locals would wake up tomorrow and realize that in this business, all a Union has is customers. Our contractors, our GC's, and our end-users are ALL our customers. You can get by with being a little overpriced if, and only if, you have EXCELLENT Customer Service. All of our Locals need to realize that, and what it means! But our Local here gets it, and I have been filling calls all day as a result.


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I seriously doubt the ADA really cares about my electrical work, so no, I wouldn't say it's 'silly'.
> 
> My point was: The comparison was made between the IBEW and the ADA. But I've never had any member of the ADA call me a rat.


Judging by your avatar, it's just a matter of time!!!

And your argument is silly. I'm sorry if you don't get what I'm saying... :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> Judging by your avatar, it's just a matter of time!!!


 
What does my avatar have to do with it? And a matter of time until _what_? 




boulengerina said:


> And your argument is silly. I'm sorry if you don't get what I'm saying... :laughing:


I don't think anyone here 'gets' what yore saying.


----------



## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> Trust me... The knowledge is obtained first hand. And Union-made products are not always more expensive than the foreign crap. Take Ford trucks for example. Or light bulbs. Or clothing. Do the research yourself, and quit parroting nonsense. Or if you really think that Americans are over-paid, and it is the Unions fault (Even you must know that Unions drive wages... even non-union wages!), then you can always move out!


that would ruin all my fun....


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Peter D said:


> No, are _you_ serious? Can you show me a verse or two where you can beat your wife and where Jesus was "all about profit margins?" Oh, and slavery was common in the ancient world, hence why the Bible talks about it so much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was being sarcastic... Too bad you didn't get it:blink:.

And we don't threaten to strike, because WE DON'T STRIKE:no:! You wanna be an expert, don't you:laughing:? You must LEARN before you can do that!

Evils of Unions, huh? Again, you didn't get it. Christianity (along with all the other world religions) behave just like an evil old union! Again... A group of people coming together for a common cause or mutual benefit. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A UNION!!! Sorry if you don't like it... go argue with a dictionary! And your pastor is WRONG WRONG WRONG. You need to read your preacher the story of Lot, as apparently he has never heard it.


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> No just stating my experiences and opinions on the mater and that seems to bother some.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If it makes you feel better, I don't want you in the IBEW at all. And my point above is that this whole country is a Union. We came together for mutual benefit, and we pay dues. Some people are uncomfortable with this notion, but they are arguing with a dictionary.

And how the owners do directly affects how we as hourly workers do, in case you haven't noticed. 

You have never sat in on negotiations, have you. You really think that the Union comes in and simply states it's desires, and gets it. Negotiations are a two way street. We have given up money and benefits at times, so that our contractors can stay competitive.

Have you ever been in the IBEW, or are you talking out of your @$$hole?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Oh, goodie.


Another REWIRE!


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

oldman said:


> that would ruin all my fun....


Yeah... I didn't think that was an option!


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> What does my avatar have to do with it? And a matter of time until _what_?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK... Here it is... You have a rat on your avatar. I know that this may come as a surprise to you, but that's the way it is.  If you hate being called that so badly, why do you advertise yourself as one? Why would anybody do that? Seems dumb. Prior to being a member of the IBEW, I never advertised myself as a rat, but you somehow seem proud of it. 

I think you can't spell "you're"!:laughing::no:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> You need to read your preacher the story of Lot, as apparently he has never heard it.


No problem. I'll get right on it. :laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> Evils of Unions, huh? Again, you didn't get it.


Yeah, you're right. I don't get it. Harassment, slashing tires, sabotaging work, payoffs, back room deals, threats, intimidation, cronyism, nepotism, mob rule, pay parity, etc etc is just old fashioned wholesome stuff. Silly me for not realizing that.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> OK... Here it is... You have a rat on your avatar. I know that this may come as a surprise to you, but that's the way it is. If you hate being called that so badly, why do you advertise yourself as one? Why would anybody do that? Seems dumb. Prior to being a member of the IBEW, I never advertised myself as a rat, but you somehow seem proud of it.
> 
> I think you can't spell "you're"!:laughing::no:


News flash: There's about a dozen 'rat' avatars here. And we're not advertising.... we're poking fun at those who call us rats. I don't consider myself a rat, but there are those here that do simply because I'm not a 'Brother'.


And I can spell 'you're' just fine. I was trying to wake Peter D up. But he seems to have misplaced the Spelling Cop badge he found in his box of CrackerJack.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

If a BIG job is being done by NON-UNION guys, the UNION guys come out and put up a 20' rat, lawn chairs, and American flags.

If I BIG job is being done by UNION guys, the NON-UNION guys do nothing and say nothing.

Who really is out of line here? :blink:


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*End of discussion*



Peter D said:


> Yeah, you're right. I don't get it. Harassment, slashing tires, sabotaging work, payoffs, back room deals, threats, intimidation, cronyism, nepotism, mob rule, pay parity, etc etc is just old fashioned wholesome stuff. Silly me for not realizing that.


Silly you for buying all the crap you are spewing forth. You sound like you're talking about corporate America (or maybe even the republican party)... you know, the guys YOU TRUST (Corporate America, that is... I have no idea of your political affiliation, and that's not my point anyway). They would never take part in harassment, slashing tires, sabotaging work, payoffs, back room deals, threats, intimidation, cronyism, nepotism, and mob rule. You go on believing that, sunshine. Good boy. Keep drinkin' tha koolaid, buddy. When you realize it's piss, I hope to Heaven above that you are too proud to admit it:laughing:!!!


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> Silly you for buying all the crap you are spewing forth. You sound like you're talking about corporate America (or maybe even the republican party)... you know, the guys YOU TRUST (Corporate America, that is... I have no idea of your political affiliation, and that's not my point anyway). They would never take part in harassment, slashing tires, sabotaging work, payoffs, back room deals, threats, intimidation, cronyism, nepotism, and mob rule. You go on believing that, sunshine. Good boy. Keep drinkin' tha koolaid, buddy. When you realize it's piss, I hope to Heaven above that you are too proud to admit it:laughing:!!!


:yawn:

Is that the best you can do?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> You go on believing that, sunshine. Good boy. Keep drinkin' tha koolaid, buddy. When you realize it's piss, I hope to Heaven above that you are too proud to admit it:laughing:!!!


AWWWW... he called Peter D "Sunshine".. how cute is that... :laughing:

Just don't drink the apple juice


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yeah, you're right. I don't get it. Harassment, slashing tires, sabotaging work, payoffs, back room deals, threats, intimidation, cronyism, nepotism, mob rule, pay parity, etc etc is just old fashioned wholesome stuff. Silly me for not realizing that.


Somebody's been watching too many Sopranos reruns. :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I guess I'm gonna have to put yet another 'member' on my Ignore list.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

JayH said:


> Somebody's been watching too many Sopranos reruns. :laughing:


Careful......... someone may make a comment about _your_ avatar. I'm sure he's already formed his opinion about you based on it.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Careful......... someone may make a comment about _your_ avatar. I'm sure he's already formed his opinion about you based on it.


 
If that is the route, then I'm sure I have been called worse by better.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I guess I'm gonna have to put yet another 'member' on my Ignore list.


I'm surprised you would even consider an "ignore" list.

Take a time out and get back in the game :thumbup:


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> If a BIG job is being done by NON-UNION guys, the UNION guys come out and put up a 20' rat, lawn chairs, and American flags.
> 
> If I BIG job is being done by UNION guys, the NON-UNION guys do nothing and say nothing.
> 
> Who really is out of line here? :blink:


When the union folks come out with the blow up rat (I really hate that thing!), they are supposed to be pointing it at the CONTRACTOR, not the men. It is very sad that the Union guys don't make this more clear. In fact, I know that they often direct their frustrations at the manpower. For this, the IBEW should be ashamed. Any electrician is my brother in trade, union or not. I choose to be union, but do not denigrate any man for choosing not to be, so long as he understands the facts. There are shops out there that pay perfectly well, and give their employees decent benefits, and they are non-Union. On the other hand, some of the ****tiest contractors I have ever met ARE UNION. But the best I have ever met are also union. It is my business to know contractors, and I can tell you that here at home, the union contractors are WAAAYYYY better than the non-Union contractors. 

Unions are way out of line to behave the way you describe towards non-Union electricians. I can comfortably concede that. But it is way out of line to ignore prevailing wage laws, to cheat on worker's comp, to fire without cause, and to discriminate against any able bodied citizen, too. In my experience, much less of this stuff goes on in a Union shop. Sorry for your bad experiences. If you ever come to NC, look me up.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

JayH said:


> Somebody's been watching too many Sopranos reruns. :laughing:


If you say so. :blink:


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Peter D said:


> :yawn:
> 
> Is that the best you can do?


Can't beat the truth, Pete.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

*boulengerina*

I'm curious, is there a Wal-Mart in the town you live in and have you ever patronized it?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I'm surprised you would even consider an "ignore" list.
> 
> Take a time out and get back in the game :thumbup:


 

'Cause I think this guy is blood relation to REWIRE.


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Careful......... someone may make a comment about _your_ avatar. I'm sure he's already formed his opinion about you based on it.


Go ahead... everyone else has pre-disposed opinions around here. I think all y'all with the rat avatar should get rid of it. As a Union man, it bothers me NOT that you all have the "ratvatar"... I just find it distasteful and degrading. I personally do not use the term, and would like to apologize for all those that do.

And take a good hard look at my avatar, please. If you find it, let me know what it is. Could be a beaver or a squirrel or something... IDK


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> Can't beat the truth, Pete.


Yeah, which you don't want to hear apparently. :laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> ..........And take a good hard look at my avatar, please. If you find it, let me know what it is. Could be a beaver or a squirrel or something... IDK


 
Looks like a tiny little polar bear in a snowstorm at high noon.

Did I guess right?


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

JayH said:


> Somebody's been watching too many Sopranos reruns. :laughing:


Jay, come out here to RI and let me show you a few things. Trust me, that stuff is not just something that happens on TV. If you have not worked here then you just do not know. 

http://www.projo.com/extra/2007/mob/story.html


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> I'm curious, is there a Wal-Mart in the town you live in and have you ever patronized it?


Bet you already know the answer to that question.... HELL NO!!!

Wouldn't go to WALMART if it was the last store on Earth. Hate the hell out of 'em. Everything is CHINESE. Sam Walton was a good man, but his kids are all @$$holes.


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Looks like a tiny little polar bear in a snowstorm at high noon.
> 
> Did I guess right?


I think you're right. Or it could be the invisible man standing in front of a dry erase board.


----------



## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Yeah, which you don't want to hear apparently. :laughing:


Yep. You're right! You big, me small. You smart, me dumb. 

Happy now, oh master of the one-liner??? Boy, you're sharp. I bet I know of a signpost that can stare you down, though.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> Yep. You're right! You big, me small. You smart, me dumb.
> 
> Happy now, oh master of the one-liner??? Boy, you're sharp. I bet I know of a signpost that can stare you down, though.


:sleep1:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> I think you're right. Or it could be the invisible man standing in front of a dry erase board.


No, wait...... I think I know.

It's a cluster of pixels....... with RGB color codes of 241,241,241.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> Yep. You're right! You big, me small. You smart, me dumb.
> 
> Happy now, oh master of the one-liner??? Boy, you're sharp. I bet I know of a signpost that can stare you down, though.


 


Black4Truck said:


> I'm surprised you would even consider an "ignore" list. ............


I rest my case, Your Honor.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No, wait...... I think I know.
> 
> It's a cluster of pixels....... with RGB color codes of 241,241,241.


We runnin outa crap to fuss about or what? I guess it's a good thing though... All y'all have a good New Year! And I really mean ALL.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> We runnin outa crap to fuss about or what? I guess it's a good thing though... All y'all have a good New Year! And I really mean ALL.


Don't go away mad............. :whistling2:

Anyone else want to say something about the door?


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Jay, come out here to RI and let me show you a few things. Trust me, that stuff is not just something that happens on TV. If you have not worked here then you just do not know.
> 
> http://www.projo.com/extra/2007/mob/story.html


I was just trying to lighten it up a bit. My bad. :jester:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

JayH said:


> I was just trying to lighten it up a bit. My bad. :jester:


I missed that, I apologize and agree.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I missed that, I apologize and agree.


Whoa! Bob Badger apologized. I have to remember this.  :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Whoa! Bob Badger apologized. I have to remember this.  :laughing:


I am sorry 


























sorry I ever met you! :laughing:















Just kidding.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I am sorry
> 
> sorry I ever met you! :laughing:
> 
> Just kidding.


:lol:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

JayH said:


> Somebody's been watching too many Sopranos reruns. :laughing:


watch them? i live them...unfortunately


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

oldman said:


> watch them? i live them...unfortunately


 
Must be exciting. Never a dull moment.


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## DipsyDoodleDandy (Dec 21, 2009)

*Unions*

Here is my point of view. My Uncle was president of the local union and i didn't join. Over the last 12 yrs I had 3 union guys. They were the worst workers I ever had from taking breaks, leaving at 3:30 no matter if job was done, constant bitching, and really slow...that's all I'm saying


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

JayH said:


> Must be exciting. Never a dull moment.


A quick one.

Had a job in a southern New England city , dropped prints to fire dept, never heard back. After calls went nowhere I went down in person and could read the log where they had been logged in but now apparently lost. Hmmmm.

I tell GC, GC has two Italian friends come by I explain problem to them, one of them says _"Stop calling the deputy Chief, that is a problem"_ and _"I will get the prints."_ 'Yeah sure you will' I think to myself.

Within an hour a FD engineer calls me on my cell and says they have my prints and they are all set. I say great I will come right down, no he says, he will bring them to me. 

Just another day.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> A quick one.
> 
> Had a job in a southern New England city , dropped prints to fire dept, never heard back. After calls went nowhere I went down in person and could read the log where they had been logged in but now apparently lost. Hmmmm.
> 
> ...


OK, seems real life on the east coast is closer to fiction than is comfortable for me.

Hope you guys don't think life on the west coast is Baywatch and all that!!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

JayH said:


> OK, seems real life on the east coast is closer to fiction than is comfortable for me.
> 
> Hope you guys don't think life on the west coast is Baywatch and all that!!


 
I thought it's more like_ Three And A Half Men_.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I thought it's more like_ Three And A Half Men_.


That's an upgrade from Baywatch I suppose.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

JayH said:


> That's an upgrade from Baywatch I suppose.


Definatly better than _Three's Company_!


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Definatly better than _Three's Company_!


Hey watch it mister. You know I love that show. My mom let me watch it when I was a little kid. I mean, yeah, never-mind.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Suzanne Somers and Thighmaster!! Now that's Califrnia baby!!!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

JayH said:


> Suzanne Somers and Thighmaster!! Now that's Califrnia baby!!!


 
There was a skit on SNL about the "thigh master" and a guy with a crushed head.. :laughing:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> There was a skit on SNL about the "thigh master" and a guy with a crushed head.. :laughing:


How long ago? Who was in the skit?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> How long ago? Who was in the skit?


Got to be over (20) years ago.. the guys head was like 2' long with bulging eyes :laughing:


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> There was a skit on SNL about the "thigh master" and a guy with a crushed head.. :laughing:


If I weren't married...Suzanne Somers could crush my head any day!!!! :thumbup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You are talking out you're ass and have no idea what you are saying in regards to how I deal with my boss.




Oh Bob..... I'm sorry,
tender subject, I won't mention "that" again.

And,
I am glad/proud that you are a strong independent man and do not need anything from anyone and can find your own work.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Oh Bob..... I'm sorry,
> tender subject, I won't mention "that" again.


Don't be sorry about anything, it just a fact you have no idea what my relationship is, or is not, with my boss. We are not buddies and I do not suck his ****, polish his shoes or take his laundry to the cleaners.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

boulengerina said:


> Silly you for buying all the crap you are spewing forth. You sound like you're talking about corporate America (or maybe even the republican party)... you know, the guys YOU TRUST (Corporate America, that is... You go on believing that, sunshine. Good boy. Keep drinkin' tha koolaid, buddy. When you realize it's piss, I hope to Heaven above that you are too proud to admit it:laughing:!!!


I don't care who you are that there is funny:thumbup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Don't be sorry about anything, it just a fact you have no idea what my relationship is, or is not, with my boss. We are not buddies and I do not suck his ****, polish his shoes or take his laundry to the cleaners.


I know but you get real sensitive when the worm or brown nosing thing is mentioned. So I take it that it's not a new subject for you.

I just thought we wouldn't bring it up again due to it hitting a nerve or something.

BTW,
How is the weather up your way. We had a cold front move in last night. It's 42 outside!! I'll have to wear socks today and maybe find a long sleeved shirt somewhere.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> I know but you get real sensitive when the worm or brown nosing thing is mentioned. So I take it that it's not a new subject for you.
> 
> I just thought we wouldn't bring it up again due to it hitting a nerve or something.


I am fine, and I am enjoying that you keep insisting on making things personal instead of staying on topic. Typically means that you lost and have given up.:thumbsup:

Call me a RAT a few more times, maybe that will make you feel better. :laughing:



> BTW,
> How is the weather up your way. We had a cold front move in last night. It's 42 outside!! I'll have to wear socks today and maybe find a long sleeved shirt somewhere.


Thats T shirt and shorts weather. :jester:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

It's 48 now. No socks!


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