# Dang concrete guys...



## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

I have been working on this huge project for a friend. He's building a 5600sqft garage, thing is massive. I pulled in all the wire underground and have it coming up a 3" sch 80, then laid two 2" pvc conduits to the opposite corner of the building to save on wire. Had it all fully secured to the wall, plumb and all properly aligned but didn't have the gutter in yet. Was gone for a few weeks and during that time that poured the slab. Somehow someone broke all my clamps and really messed up my pipes. They didn't break the pipes luckily but it really makes the install looks not professional. If I do this again I'm building my entire wall and landing all the conduits. 

As for the lb's, I wanted a LL and LR but as everything else right, couldn't get them soon enough.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

You should cut them off at the floor and use a Carlin pvc recovery kit to bring them up straight


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

Slay301 said:


> You should cut them off at the floor and use a Carlin pvc recovery kit to bring them up straight


I have never seen that before, that thing looks amazing. However they don't have anything bigger than 2". And wowser that thing isn't cheap... 

As this point it's too late to go back. I already have the gutter drilled and such. Didn't see much anyway to fix it at the time.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

You could have heated them up to straighten them.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Where was your heat gun?
5 minutes = nice and plumb


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## ppsh (Jan 2, 2014)

I always try to use strut to secure any remotely critical conduit in a pour. 2-Hole pvc straps are too easy to snap. Increase in cost upfront, but the concrete guys have to try to ruin it. Stake and tie wire the bottoms of the 90s at the stub ups where they cant get kicked out of place.


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## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

Box the bottom.


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

MotoGP1199 said:


> You could have heated them up to straighten them.


Would that actually of worked? They are physically crocked coming out the concrete.


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

pjholguin said:


> Box the bottom.


That, would have worked. Should of asked on here first. Sometimes the simplest solution escapes your mind.


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

ppsh said:


> I always try to use strut to secure any remotely critical conduit in a pour. 2-Hole pvc straps are too easy to snap. Increase in cost upfront, but the concrete guys have to try to ruin it. Stake and tie wire the bottoms of the 90s at the stub ups where they cant get kicked out of place.


The 3" I had secured with these huge metal straps that you screw tight. Had four 2x4s screwed to the wall, secured the pipes to that. They broke the 2x4s.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

magicone2571 said:


> Would that actually of worked? They are physically crocked coming out the concrete.


It would be somewhat noticeable at the bottom, but would have looked much better. It's done all the time. Also, NEVER use PVC clamps when supporting clnduits under concrete they will break.. And as mentioned earlier support the 90s below. Or us two points of support on all conduits. See picture below, the top of the 2x12s is where concrete will be. All of these conduits came out laser straight. I did have sand covering all the 90s below and dirt back fill before concrete was poured. Strut was in the bottom half of the concrete.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

MotoGP1199 said:


> It would be somewhat noticeable at the bottom, but would have looked much better. It's done all the time. Also, NEVER use PVC clamps when supporting clnduits under concrete they will break.. And as mentioned earlier support the 90s below. Or us two points of support on all conduits. See picture below, the top of the 2x12s is where concrete will be. All of these conduits came out laser straight. I did have sand covering all the 90s below and dirt back fill before concrete was poured. Strut was in the bottom half of the concrete.
> 
> View attachment 157109


Nice job! The backfill protects the conduit and keeps the masons from walking on them and compacting rocks into them. What are these runs feeding? I'm just curious?


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Ignore this double post.


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## d2043 (Nov 12, 2013)

Slay301 said:


> You should cut them off at the floor and use a Carlin pvc recovery kit to bring them up straight


I have never seen the Carlon kit before, I'll check it out.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

d2043 said:


> I have never seen the Carlon kit before, I'll check it out.


Yep works great for when the iron workers run over your stub ups and break them off at grade


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Heating the conduits up would have been the way to go. Cheaper and no waiting for supplies.

I don't know if Carlon buys from SP Products, or SP products patent expired, But SP Products was the original for the repair kit. 



SP Products for Safer, Better, Faster Innovative Products for the Electrical Contractor


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

I prefab mine and drop them in


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Easy said:


> Nice job! The backfill protects the conduit and keeps the masons from walking on them and compacting rocks into them. What are these runs feeding? I'm just curious?


This is in a residential pool equipment room that will be below the pool deck when done. We are doing the project in stages as it is made available to us. The pool equipment room is fed with a 400 amp feeder and this will be one section of a wall that will have the controls only for most of the equipment (11 pumps total, 3 heaters, 3 chemical controllers, 2 uv's, a 10 hp vfd, and pool/spa/slide lighting controls.

Here's a picture of the equipment room and the conduits run only within the room to the equipment locations as the others were installed after the block walls were built, In this pic it is still missing the conduits for the main panel. I believe its about 65' long total.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

magicone2571 said:


> As for the lb's, I wanted a LL and LR but as everything else right, couldn't get them soon enough.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157102


why the lb's versus 3 nipples out bottom of panel?


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

readydave8 said:


> why the lb's versus 3 nipples out bottom of panel?


Panel didn't have any more knock outs for 2.5"-3" on the bottom. I could have drilled or pressed one in but there was a bunch of smaller knockouts on there and I was worried I'd rip something up if I tried. However there was a nice 2.5" on both sides. Not my favorite panel by far. It's a Siemens, I prefer the new leviton ones myself.


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

MotoGP1199 said:


> This is in a residential pool equipment room that will be below the pool deck when done. We are doing the project in stages as it is made available to us. The pool equipment room is fed with a 400 amp feeder and this will be one section of a wall that will have the controls only for most of the equipment (11 pumps total, 3 heaters, 3 chemical controllers, 2 uv's, a 10 hp vfd, and pool/spa/slide lighting controls.
> 
> Here's a picture of the equipment room and the conduits run only within the room to the equipment locations as the others were installed after the block walls were built, In this pic it is still missing the conduits for the main panel. I believe its about 65' long total.
> 
> View attachment 157117


That is some serious pool equipment. I wouldn't want to see the electric bill for that. But if they can afford that I doubt the electric bill will matter much.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

magicone2571 said:


> That is some serious pool equipment. I wouldn't want to see the electric bill for that. But if they can afford that I doubt the electric bill will matter much.


That’s a nipple you can use nipple pipe fill. Next time cut a piece of sheet metal and pop rivet it bottom of the can


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

Honestly though saying this nice as possible you should just start over. It looks like hammered dog **** concrete guys fault or not


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Slay301 said:


> That’s a nipple you can use nipple pipe fill. Next time cut a piece of sheet metal and pop rivet it bottom of the can


Buy solid backboxes, no pre-punched KOs at all.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

LGLS said:


> Buy solid backboxes, no pre-punched KOs at all.


I agree I’m just saying u could do that


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

Slay301 said:


> Honestly though saying this nice as possible you should just start over. It looks like hammered dog **** concrete guys fault or not


Well gutter up isn't bad. Can't break up the concrete to straighten everything up. Could try heating them but then I'd have to replace the gutter. Person I'm doing this for said it looks fantastic lol. Been years since I've done a layout of this size.


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

The meter and disconnects turned out much better.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

magicone2571 said:


> The meter and disconnects turned out much better.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157118


You forgot the expansion fittings


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

Slay301 said:


> You forgot the expansion fittings


These pipes just got down about 20" or so to a bell, then the cable is all ran underground with no conduit. Plus it's all in the shade. Shouldn't have any issues with contraction/expansion. Nec just says where necessary. Poco doesn't require it per their engineers so I didn't spec any.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

magicone2571 said:


> The meter and disconnects turned out much better.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157118


Does this come in from underground, hit a disconnect, go through the meter then hit another disconnect? If so, is it a PUCO requirement? Around here, we hit the meter first then the disconnect, the local PUCO doesn't allow any type of disconnect ahead of the meter. 

You're right though, that is a nice-looking installation.


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

micromind said:


> Does this come in from underground, hit a disconnect, go through the meter then hit another disconnect? If so, is it a PUCO requirement? Around here, we hit the meter first then the disconnect, the local PUCO doesn't allow any type of disconnect ahead of the meter.
> 
> You're right though, that is a nice-looking installation.


There will be another 3" conduit coming up from the poco into the meter. They handle all that. My requirements were just to have everything set. One disconnect goes to the house, another to a huge garage.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

magicone2571 said:


> The meter and disconnects turned out much better.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157118


Do you have a bonding bushing on at least one side of the nipple between the meter enclosure and each disconnect?


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Do you have a bonding bushing on at least one side of the nipple between the meter enclosure and disconnect?


No, I didn't honestly think of it till you said something. The disconnects bond the neutral and grounds, I have 2 ground rods sunk. Goes out one, through one rod, to another then back up to the other disconnect. Then I ran a ground for good measure from a disconnect to the meter pan. I'll see what the inspector says next week. Wouldn't be too bad to add one if needed.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

magicone2571 said:


> No, I didn't honestly think of it till you said something. The disconnects bond the neutral and grounds, I have 2 ground rods sunk. Goes out one, through one rod, to another then back up to the other disconnect. Then I ran a ground for good measure from a disconnect to the meter pan. I'll see what the inspector says next week. Wouldn't be too bad to add one if needed.


I brought it up because I saw the ringed KOs. It is required on service raceways with impaired connections per 250.92 (B)


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

MotoGP1199 said:


> I brought it up because I saw the ringed KOs. It is required on service raceways with impaired connections per 250.92 (B)
> 
> View attachment 157119


I learned something new today.


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

This is the other mess I have to figure out. I had to convert it to a sub panel but a majority of wires were too short. Now I can't get the door on there's so much stuff in there. It will be a little more room once I pull the old 4/0 out of the bottom and come in the top with the new 4/0. Could pull 6-8 circuits out into a sub panel to the right but that wouldn't save that much room I don't think.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

MotoGP1199 said:


> This is in a residential pool equipment room that will be below the pool deck when done. We are doing the project in stages as it is made available to us. The pool equipment room is fed with a 400 amp feeder and this will be one section of a wall that will have the controls only for most of the equipment (11 pumps total, 3 heaters, 3 chemical controllers, 2 uv's, a 10 hp vfd, and pool/spa/slide lighting controls.
> 
> Here's a picture of the equipment room and the conduits run only within the room to the equipment locations as the others were installed after the block walls were built, In this pic it is still missing the conduits for the main panel. I believe its about 65' long total.
> 
> View attachment 157117


 This looks great. I especially like how you formed the extra large sweeps.


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## SummitElectric1 (Aug 8, 2016)

magicone2571 said:


> This is the other mess I have to figure out. I had to convert it to a sub panel but a majority of wires were too short. Now I can't get the door on there's so much stuff in there. It will be a little more room once I pull the old 4/0 out of the bottom and come in the top with the new 4/0. Could pull 6-8 circuits out into a sub panel to the right but that wouldn't save that much room I don't think.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157120


You are correct, that is a mess.

If I may offer a little constructive criticism here, not intended to offend, just trying to help...

That panel should be replaced and a second sub panel should be added. If that option was offered to the customer and they declined there still may be some things to improve on. If that option was not offered then the customer has been done a disservice. 

If that is now a sub panel then there is a big problem. From the photo that you posted it appears that the neutrals and grounds are still bonded. 

From the photo it also looks like there is at least one new circuit to be added to that panel, yet all of the breaker spaces are occupied. Spending that much time working on a full panel without adding an additional sub panel does your customer and your profit no favors.

The GE panel is full of non-listed circuit breakers. I'm not saying that I wouldn't work on it without replacing those breakers, but I'd definitely make the customer aware that some of those breakers are older than the panel itself. The Bryant 2-pole 30 amp in spaces #31-33 was likely made sometime before Westinghouse shut down the Bryant Electric manufacturing plant in 1988.

Aside from the old Bryant circuit breaker there are also Square D HomeLine and Siemens circuit breakers in that panel. And I can't tell for sure because of the photo quality, but it also appears that there are some GE breakers that are of a much earlier vintage than the enclosure. Again, I'm not saying that I wouldn't work on that panel, but I'd make certain that the contract noted these deficiencies and that the customer declined to repair them.

Yeah, maybe I'm a stickler for having listed breakers in a panel. However, from my experience a panel with a garage sale mix of circuit breakers is a definitive sign of an electrical system that has been worked on, many times, by the lowest bidder. I have no problem working on those panels, but I make sure that the contract highlights those kinds of issues and the fact that the owner, after given options to correct, chose not to repair previous work that was questionable.

Not trying to crack your coconuts, but that panel is a mess and if you didn't offer an option to correct the unsafe issues you missed an opportunity to:
Offer the customer a safer installation.​Make more profit.​Have less potential for the liability of someone else's prior awful work.​​​


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

SummitElectric1 said:


> You are correct, that is a mess.
> 
> If I may offer a little constructive criticism here, not intended to offend, just trying to help...
> 
> ...



It's a weird setup. The new electric comes in about 150ft away, right next to a sub panel of this panel. Plan originally was just run the 150ft with new 4/0, convert the main to a sub then leave everything else as is. But now that I've looked at it longer, I should upgrade the sub panel to be the primary. Use the existing 2/0 to run the existing main as a 125amp sub. That would take the 125 amp breaker out, I'm moving another 50amp breaker to be fed off the new garage panel. If 125amp for some reason isn't enough for the panel then I just run another 100amp and put a new panel next to it, take a few more load out.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

Just curious, do most of you use rigid galvanize or PVC 90’s underground? Back when I was still working we’d often use the rigid galvanize 90’s. Often the pull rope would burn through a PVC 90.


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

bill39 said:


> Just curious, do most of you use rigid galvanize or PVC 90’s underground? Back when I was still working we’d often use the rigid galvanize 90’s. Often the pull rope would burn through a PVC 90.


Ropes burning through are no longer an issue with southwire slow friction rope


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## farmantenna (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm tired other trade workers ignorantly destroying things . Just too many inconsiderate untrained idiots.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Concrete guys are the commercial/industrial version of sheetrock monkeys.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

Nothing worse than having the stone slinger operator stone blasting all the stub ups in the main electric room. I never wanted to choke somebody more in my life. There was one 3” that had two five gallon buckets full of 3/4” blue stone.

This isn’t the job, but a glimpse of how much damage one of these trucks can do.


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

HertzHound said:


> I never wanted to choke somebody more in my life.


I tried to literally kill a dry wall foreman once. Luckily for both him and me he flat outran me. When I calmed the hell down I realized that I'd chased him more than a mile before realizing that my anger was not as good a fuel as his fear.

His crew's drywall screw shooters stopped working so he went into the electric room and started throwing 600 Ampere Pringle switches closed. These had been tagged out and the room was locked and barricaded. He threw the barricade stanchions aside and shimmed the lock. He was angry because I refused to run him more temporary outlets then we had been paid for. I'd have been fired if I had. I later learned that the Pringle switch he threw now had only fuse remnants in its fuse jaws. I'll bet that woke that A-hole up!

Our crew was up on the roof replacing high HP Motors in the cooling towers. Luckily I had grounded out the busbars back in the switch gear so the power never fully reached the motors except to bump them. That said it scared us all very badly Given the size of those fans a couple of us would have been killed if they had come up to power.

Have you ever noticed that fear and anger are fraternal twins. Their not identical but they do walk hand in hand everywhere they go.

I'm still glad he outran me or I'd still be in prison. Did I mention that I was carrying a 1/2 rigid conduit bender with a rigid conduit handle?

--
Tom Horne


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

hornetd said:


> His crew's drywall screw shooters stopped working so he went into the electric room and started throwing 600 Ampere Pringle switches closed. These had been tagged out and the room was locked and barricaded.
> 
> Our crew was up on the roof replacing high HP Motors in the cooling towers. Luckily I had grounded out the busbars back in the switch gear so the power never fully reached the motors except to bump them. That said it scared us all very badly Given the size of those fans a couple of us would have been killed if they had come up to power.
> Tom Horne


I hope you wrote it up for OSHA and copied his boss and yours. Someone needed a HUGE fine for violating a tag out and locked panel and attempting to MURDER other workers. I think that the qualifier on his license should have been sued, the mental aguish and fear alone is enough to lose several years of longevity. I would have nightmares for years over that.
Knowing OSHA, the fine would have been $500 or something stupid like that. Hell the kid in FL working at a cannery was squished by a freight elevator on his first day when the lock out was bypassed. It was only 100K fine for second degree murder!


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

Djea3 said:


> I hope you wrote it up for OSHA and copied his boss and yours. Someone needed a HUGE fine for violating a tag out and locked panel and attempting to MURDER other workers. I think that the qualifier on his license should have been sued, the mental aguish and fear alone is enough to lose several years of longevity. I would have nightmares for years over that.
> Knowing OSHA, the fine would have been $500 or something stupid like that. Hell the kid in FL working at a cannery was squished by a freight elevator on his first day when the lock out was bypassed. It was only 100K fine for second degree murder!


All of that was done! The Service Superintendent, Company Owner, OSHA inspectors, Police Detectives, and 3 Union Assistant Business Agents were on the job before the day was out. The real penalty was that all of the crafts told every Construction Manger in the entire region that if that drywall foreman was allowed onto their job site they would drag up. I doubt anyone now living has seen better craft unity on any issue as that one. Our crew got the rest of the week; three days; off at the general contractors expense. When the site superintendent asked why he should pay that the Unions business agent looked him right in the eye and said "To give my boys time to hold their wives and play with their kids and remember how good it feels to be breathing. The owner of the General Contracting firm heard what happened and answered "No Problem. 3 10 hour days it is!" No one had asked for 10 hour days. The guy turned out to be a class act. 

I honestly believe that the only way to put a stop to the conflicts between the drywall folks and the rest of the crafts would be to bring most of them inside the plasterers union; Operative Plasterers' & Cement Masons' International. If they had union protection then the constant speed ups and lowering pay for board pricing would be gone. If they weren't being cheated and driven like draft oxen they wouldn't resort to some of the BS that they have to resort to to feed their families. 

-- 
Tom Horne


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## Flekota (Mar 18, 2017)

magicone2571 said:


> I have been working on this huge project for a friend. He's building a 5600sqft garage, thing is massive. I pulled in all the wire underground and have it coming up a 3" sch 80, then laid two 2" pvc conduits to the opposite corner of the building to save on wire. Had it all fully secured to the wall, plumb and all properly aligned but didn't have the gutter in yet. Was gone for a few weeks and during that time that poured the slab. Somehow someone broke all my clamps and really messed up my pipes. They didn't break the pipes luckily but it really makes the install looks not professional. If I do this again I'm building my entire wall and landing all the conduits.
> 
> As for the lb's, I wanted a LL and LR but as everything else right, couldn't get them soon enough.
> 
> ...


I would be more worried about the 2 unimposing legs running trough the same conduit. Or as an electrician has no one told you about this. Subsection 725.52(A), Exception No. 2 (NEC 2002) magnetic fields bang together and create heat and resistance. And can in time cause the wire to break down these are considered two mains


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## CWL (Jul 7, 2020)

Djea3 said:


> Hell the kid in FL working at a cannery was squished by a freight elevator on his first day when the lock out was bypassed. It was only 100K fine for second degree murder!


Pretty sure I saw the security camera footage of that ordeal. Pretty tough to watch. Don't remember exactly when I saw it, but I think it was during an OSHA 30HR.


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

Flekota said:


> I would be more worried about the 2 unimposing legs running trough the same conduit. Or as an electrician has no one told you about this. Subsection 725.52(A), Exception No. 2 (NEC 2002) magnetic fields bang together and create heat and resistance. And can in time cause the wire to break down these are considered two mains


*Flekota*

Please help me out. I may be being dense but I cannot discern what your concern is. I stared at the photograph in the post you replied to and I could not spot the problem. Could you expand on what you are trying to say here? Did you really mean to cite the 2002 NEC? The oldest one I have available is the 2014. It is perfectly acceptable, under the copyright fair use doctrine, to paste the section or sections you are referring to into your reply. If the section you are citing refers to another section for the actual requirement include both. 

-- 
Tom Horne


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

magicone2571 said:


> I have been working on this huge project for a friend. He's building a 5600sqft garage, thing is massive. I pulled in all the wire underground and have it coming up a 3" sch 80, then laid two 2" pvc conduits to the opposite corner of the building to save on wire. Had it all fully secured to the wall, plumb and all properly aligned but didn't have the gutter in yet. Was gone for a few weeks and during that time that poured the slab. Somehow someone broke all my clamps and really messed up my pipes. They didn't break the pipes luckily but it really makes the install looks not professional. If I do this again I'm building my entire wall and landing all the conduits.
> 
> As for the lb's, I wanted a LL and LR but as everything else right, couldn't get them soon enough.
> 
> ...


I'm just asking. Didn't you say this will now be a feeder supplied panel that is not functioning as service equipment? I know that it will function as the Building Disconnecting Means but that is not the same thing since it will have separate Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) and neutral which will not be bonded to each other in the Garage's panel. If yes you need to change out the surge protector to a four wire type. The surge protector must be capable of holding the voltage difference on the GEC, Neutral, and both of the energized conductors within the rating of the insulation of the conductors used. If the voltage difference exceeds the rating of the insulation on any 2 conductors in the same cable, raceway, or trench the insulation may fail and create fault between the 2 conductors. 

The mounting location for the surge protector needs to be changed as well. It should be mounted so that the conductors will be as short and straight as practicable. That can be found in the Manufacturers Installation Instructions which are included in the listing and labeling. The United States National Electric Code (NEC) requires that those instructions be followed. 

Make sure that there is also surge protection in the equipment from which the supply feeder originates. That is especially important with a long feeder. If there isn't a surge protector in the service equipment enclosure then you are, kind of, in luck in that the surge protector that you have is perfectly acceptable in Service Equipment and you can relocate it there. Then you buy a four wire protector for the feeder supplied panel in the garage.

-- 
Tom Horne


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## magicone2571 (Apr 29, 2021)

hornetd said:


> I'm just asking. Didn't you say this will now be a feeder supplied panel that is not functioning as service equipment? I know that it will function as the Building Disconnecting Means but that is not the same thing since it will have separate Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) and neutral which will not be bonded to each other in the Garage's panel. If yes you need to change out the surge protector to a four wire type. The surge protector must be capable of holding the voltage difference on the GEC, Neutral, and both of the energized conductors within the rating of the insulation of the conductors used. If the voltage difference exceeds the rating of the insulation on any 2 conductors in the same cable, raceway, or trench the insulation may fail and create fault between the 2 conductors.
> 
> The mounting location for the surge protector needs to be changed as well. It should be mounted so that the conductors will be as short and straight as practicable. That can be found in the Manufacturers Installation Instructions which are included in the listing and labeling. The United States National Electric Code (NEC) requires that those instructions be followed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of the difference on the surge protector. I'll have to look up a 4 wire one and see if I can return the 3 wire. There isn't any spot to put it at the disconnect as it's outside. So the new setup is this:
------------------ Outside
Meter 
2x 200 amp disconnect, bonded 
------------------ Inside 
1x 200 amp panel in Garage, separate ground/neutral but I sunk 2x ground rods for safe measure 
1x 200 amp panel in basement feeding 2x 125 sub panels, separate ground/neutral


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

magicone2571 said:


> Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of the difference on the surge protector. I'll have to look up a 4 wire one and see if I can return the 3 wire. There isn't any spot to put it at the disconnect as it's outside. So the new setup is this:
> ------------------ Outside
> Meter
> 2x 200 amp disconnect, bonded
> ...


You mount a right angle knockout bracket 







inside the wiring space of the Service equipment Enclosure; where those two 200 ampere breakers are mounted; and connect it to the load terminals of one of the main breakers. 

--
Tom Horne


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## d2043 (Nov 12, 2013)

magicone2571 said:


> I have been working on this huge project for a friend. He's building a 5600sqft garage, thing is massive. I pulled in all the wire underground and have it coming up a 3" sch 80, then laid two 2" pvc conduits to the opposite corner of the building to save on wire. Had it all fully secured to the wall, plumb and all properly aligned but didn't have the gutter in yet. Was gone for a few weeks and during that time that poured the slab. Somehow someone broke all my clamps and really messed up my pipes. They didn't break the pipes luckily but it really makes the install looks not professional. If I do this again I'm building my entire wall and landing all the conduits.
> 
> As for the lb's, I wanted a LL and LR but as everything else right, couldn't get them soon enough.
> 
> ...


You could have cut off close to the floor and then heated new pvc to form offsets to fit. ,,but you did what you had to do at the time. We all get screwed by the cement finishers at some point. My last job the pipes in the slab came out perfect then some idiot iron worker ran over them with a forklift and bent them off at the floor. Thak god for the Carlon repair kit coupling or i would have had to jack hammer it out to fix.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

magicone2571 said:


> That, would have worked. Should of asked on here first. Sometimes the simplest solution escapes your mind.


I know the feeling brother!


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

pjholguin said:


> Box the bottom.


What is meant by this phrase? 

Tom Horne


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

hornetd said:


> What is meant by this phrase?
> 
> Tom Horne


Put a trough low under the panel, at the floor








Now the debated question, can you just cut a square out of the trough and bolt it to the concrete our do you have to have knockouts and lockrings 😂😂


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

matt1124 said:


> Put a trough low under the panel, at the floor
> View attachment 162390
> 
> Now the debated question, can you just cut a square out of the trough and bolt it to the concrete our do you have to have knockouts and lockrings 😂😂


Best solution i have seen yet


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

That would bother me. It seems like you would stub your toe the minute you walked up to the panel.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

HertzHound said:


> That would bother me. It seems like you would stub your toe the minute you walked up to the panel.


true ... but if you just build it and dont have to work on it from now ??? 

on the other hand, the conduit is almost that far out already, so i dont see a real win either way


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