# Question: pigtail neutral 20amp 3 wires t-slot for kitchen



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Try reading 300.13(B).


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Try reading 300.13(B).



(Toronto)


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Try reading 300.13(B).


*
300.13 Mechanical and Electrical Continuity — Conductors.​**(B) Device Removal. ​*​​In multiwire branch circuits, the
continuity of a grounded conductor shall not depend on
device connections such as lampholders, receptacles, and
so forth, where the removal of such devices would interrupt
the continuity.​
* 
*


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## Electrust (Dec 20, 2009)

I am not trying to remove any devices here(neutral alway closed). And I understand the potential harzard. I am just wondering if pig tail a neutral to ground in a box will solve the problem. 

lets see, under normal condition, it will be, red 110, black 110, neutral 0.
now if I pig tail a neutral to ground, will this create any problems:
1. normal condition, red 110, black 110, neutral 0
2. with pig tail, (trip red)red 0, black 110, neutral 110-->to ground 
3. without pig tail, red 0, black 110, neutral 110---> to neutral(still end up to ground,as long as is closed)
I am confused...


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Pigtail neutral to ground*



Electrust said:


> I am not trying to remove any devices here(neutral alway closed). And I understand the potential harzard. I am just wondering if pig tail a neutral to ground in a box will solve the problem.
> 
> lets see, under normal condition, it will be, red 110, black 110, neutral 0.
> now if I pig tail a neutral to ground, will this create any problems:
> ...


The neutral is at ground potential, BUT it must only be physically connected to ground at the service. You are possibly creating a parallel path for circuit current through the grounding system back to the source voltage which is very potentially harmful.


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## Electrust (Dec 20, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> The neutral is at ground potential, BUT it must only be physically connected to ground at the service. You are possibly creating a parallel path for circuit current through the grounding system back to the source voltage which is very potentially harmful.


thanks I think i got it.
so do I need pig tail for every single one of them(for the drawing above)?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Electrust said:


> I am not trying to remove any devices here(neutral alway closed). And I understand the potential harzard. I am just wondering if pig tail a neutral to ground in a box will solve the problem.
> 
> lets see, under normal condition, it will be, red 110, black 110, neutral 0.
> now if I pig tail a neutral to ground, will this create any problems:
> ...


 
YOU are not removing devices, but they can be removed in the future, creating an open neutral condition. This will throw the voltages on the two circuits into oddball voltages. Instead of 120v on each circuit, you may have 180 on one and 60 on the other.


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## Greenblinker (Aug 4, 2008)

Besides the NEC, you could have trouble with the GFCI's working correctly. I've troubleshot a kitchen in the past setup like that with massive nuisance tripping of the GFCI's. In the end we found the shared neutral to be the problem. However, It just occured to me that you could possibly use a 2 pole GFCI breaker and be fine, right guys?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Gfi's can be wired using a mwbc....On the line side.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Gfi's can be wired using a mwbc....On the line side.


 An inspector turned me down for that one time in Charlotte!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

He is clearly smoking crack. 
Tell him just that. :thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

codeone said:


> An inspector turned me down for that one time in Charlotte!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


You gotta quit asking inspectors out for dates. :whistling2:


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