# Under-Cabinet LED strip (tape) lighting



## Semi-Ret Electrician

Paul Home Depot offers UL/CSA listed LED tape lighting on-line by Armacost Lighting.

I prefer to mount the 12 Volt strips behind the facia (if you will) of the cabinet looking straight down, so it's hard to see standing.


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## electricmalone

Take a look at Q-Tran. http://www.q-tran.com/ They make all of their transformers / power supplies in Milford Connecticut. I did a factory tour last week. Small and very impressive operation. We have jobs in place installing hundreds and hundreds of feet of their iQ series LED tape. I have installed hundreds of feet of other brands of LED tape, they look best as far forward of the upper cabinets as you can get them. If you can mount them on a 45 degree angle facing back to the backsplash, it looks killer. Try to stick with something in the 2700K family. It makes a difference when you see it everyday. Hopefully there just happens to be a few extra feet of the LED tape leftover from our next few jobs, my xenon undercabinet lights need to go...


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## flatlander

electricmalone said:


> Take a look at Q-Tran. http://www.q-tran.com/ They make all of their transformers / power supplies in Milford Connecticut. I did a factory tour last week. Small and very impressive operation. We have jobs in place installing hundreds and hundreds of feet of their iQ series LED tape. I have installed hundreds of feet of other brands of LED tape, they look best as far forward of the upper cabinets as you can get them. If you can mount them on a 45 degree angle facing back to the backsplash, it looks killer. Try to stick with something in the 2700K family. It makes a difference when you see it everyday. Hopefully there just happens to be a few extra feet of the LED tape leftover from our next few jobs, my xenon undercabinet lights need to go...


Do you find that this iQ series works best with, or without some sort of valance (or dado in cabinet base), given that it is so discrete?


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## wildleg

I like it installed on the front of the cabinet facing towards the back (NOT down, since you can see the reflection in the countertop)


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## Dennis Alwon

IMO tape lights should not be used for uc lighting. I prefer to use an LED strip light and leave the tape for places where they are more hidden-- There is also the issue with LV wiring being run thru walls.


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## electricmalone

flatlander said:


> Do you find that this iQ series works best with, or without some sort of valance (or dado in cabinet base), given that it is so discrete?


I like it in a diffuser lens channel. Qtran will custom cut and fabricate the setup to exact specs. Another good company, they have some better options for connectors, is Edge lighting. They get relatively pricey... Qtran has a back channel that is recessed into a dado. I have some on order for a kitchen project, as soon as I get these and do the install I will post pics.


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## drumnut08

Dennis Alwon said:


> IMO tape lights should not be used for uc lighting. I prefer to use an LED strip light and leave the tape for places where they are more hidden-- There is also the issue with LV wiring being run thru walls.


. Why not keep the low voltage cable run neatly through the cabinet to a j box up high out of harms way ? NM is fished out of the back of that to a 120 volt owner source . Generally how I do them .


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## electricmalone

drumnut08 said:


> . Why not keep the low voltage cable run neatly through the cabinet to a j box up high out of harms way ? NM is fished out of the back of that to a 120 volt owner source . Generally how I do them .


 These work great, run Romex in the wall, change over with one of these. Sea Gull Ambiance wiring compartment.


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## Southeast Power

Dennis Alwon said:


> IMO tape lights should not be used for uc lighting. I prefer to use an LED strip light and leave the tape for places where they are more hidden-- There is also the issue with LV wiring being run thru walls.


I have exclusively installed tape light for backsplash/ UC lighting. I haven't found anything better.
I use FPL cable and every owner is extremely happy.
Just make sure to install it so that it faces the backsplash and not on the reflective counter.


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## Service Call

jrannis said:


> I have exclusively installed tape light for backsplash/ UC lighting. I haven't found anything better. I use FPL cable and every owner is extremely happy. Just make sure to install it so that it faces the backsplash and not on the reflective counter.


What is FPL cable?


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## Southeast Power

Service Call said:


> What is FPL cable?


http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=nec-type-fpl-non-plenum

Pretty much, left over fire alarm wire.


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## Southeast Power

electricmalone said:


> These work great, run Romex in the wall, change over with one of these. Sea Gull Ambiance wiring compartment.


Nice.


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## Mshow1323

jrannis said:


> http://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=nec-type-fpl-non-plenum
> 
> Pretty much, left over fire alarm wire.


My favorite
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004N1CGT0/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And I conceal the wire when it penetrates the wall with 
http://www.lowes.com/pd_298084-3568...er&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=cord+cover&facetInfo=


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## Lampshade

Paul, the problem I see with LED tape is the reflection it produces on the countertop such as polished granite, you can see each LED reflected back at you and it looks terrible. If linear LED is being requested find something that has a frosted coating or cover of some kind so the light will disperse evenly. HOWEVER, If the counter tops are not a polished material, then it will work fine. Pay attention to the color temp 3000K-4000K max would be my suggestion.


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## flatlander

Lampshade said:


> Paul, the problem I see with LED tape is the reflection it produces on the countertop such as polished granite, you can see each LED reflected back at you and it looks terrible. If linear LED is being requested find something that has a frosted coating or cover of some kind so the light will disperse evenly. HOWEVER, If the counter tops are not a polished material, then it will work fine. Pay attention to the color temp 3000K-4000K max would be my suggestion.


This is very good to know. These strip LEDs are pretty new to the local suppliers (at least the ones I've been dealing with). False bottoms with LED pucks has been the choice for the few higher end kitchens I've been involved with. It's a tough sell to recommend alternatives ... especially pricey ones, when I don't even know that they will be the best choice. Lots of changes in a short amoutn of time!


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## Lampshade

flatlander said:


> This is very good to know. These strip LEDs are pretty new to the local suppliers (at least the ones I've been dealing with). False bottoms with LED pucks has been the choice for the few higher end kitchens I've been involved with. It's a tough sell to recommend alternatives ... especially pricey ones, when I don't even know that they will be the best choice. Lots of changes in a short amoutn of time!



LED pucks or a contained LED fixture is a better choice in my opinion, if the fixture fails you can replace it, with LED linear tape you have to splice in where there is a failure, which requires tearing up your original install. But of course LED's are supposed to last FOREVER - LOL!


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## Southeast Power

Lampshade said:


> Paul, the problem I see with LED tape is the reflection it produces on the countertop such as polished granite, you can see each LED reflected back at you and it looks terrible. If linear LED is being requested find something that has a frosted coating or cover of some kind so the light will disperse evenly. HOWEVER, If the counter tops are not a polished material, then it will work fine. Pay attention to the color temp 3000K-4000K max would be my suggestion.


You can't install them face down, they have to be installed on the light rail facing the backsplash.
Pucks are crap, I refuse to install them. They look amateurish. 
the tape is like $12 for 16' and about that much for the driver.


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## 6 shooter

jrannis said:


> You can't install them face down, they have to be installed on the light rail facing the backsplash.
> Pucks are crap, I refuse to install them. They look amateurish.
> the tape is like $12 for 16' and about that much for the driver.


 
What is the light rail?


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## Mshow1323

6 shooter said:


> What is the light rail?


In a nutshell, a light rail, light bar, or under cabinet valance, is a little piece of trim on the underside face of the cabinet. More or less crown molding for the bottom.

And for the record, I only install them on the light bar if and only if, the back splash is not glass tile. If you do install on the light bar, the tape does bend that direction, so you don't need the adapters to get around corners. It saves a boat load of time


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## ablyss

IMHO, both products have there benefits.

For space limiting areas obviously the tape is the right choice. 

Here's an example of one I did...









The tape is very cost effective both on material and labor. Bottom line if you can use the tape and it doesn't pose a potential problem use it.

Tape needs a clean surface...Cleaning the UC area of dirt, grease and saw dust is required. 

Tape is easy to adjust if there are issues... just peel off, reapply new sticky tape and done.

On the other hand....
Self contained LEDs are a cleaner product. They replace existing UC incandescent/fluorescents without much hassle. Keyword here is "much". As the labor to install them is quite the driving factor IMHO to only use the tape.
They come with a built in driver/transformer so no need to install a secondary box which usually gets lost and covered up.
No low voltage wires to manage.

I've used Alco before and is decent http://alancolker.com/undercabinet/led-undercabinet-lights?ut=W
Not to be confused with alkco some other brand.
Today the industry standard is http://www.cree.com/ It is the only LED Ga Power stands behind. Home Depot sells a few, but not a lot. You can find some online retailers that only sell Cree. I have used the Home Depot 60 watt equivalent Cree LED and it has performed well. Efficiency maybe has decreased a bit on a 24hr day usage but overall I'm satisfied.


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## B-ri

Like other people have said you have to worry about the reflection or "dot effect" with led tape lighting. I love the stuff because it's very easy to work with and gives you more options on your design. But it all depends on the customer. Some customers don't mind the reflection some do. Your going to get a reflection no matter what kind of light you install above granite, just a matter of intensity. Plus, it depends on what the customer wants it for- looks or task lighting. If it's for task lighting then the dots will be more noticeable because of the way you'll need to install it. I tend to use the tape light for tight or more hidden areas and a concealed/diffused strip for uc lights.

This is what I use:

Tape:
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Armacost-L...chitectural-Quality-RF3528060-12WWD/203227243

Armacost makes a small lv dimmer that is easy to hide

Concealed strip:

http://www.nslusa.com/ledestrip.html


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## Service Call

B-ri said:


> Like other people have said you have to worry about the reflection or "dot effect" with led tape lighting. I love the stuff because it's very easy to work with and gives you more options on your design. But it all depends on the customer. Some customers don't mind the reflection some do. Your going to get a reflection no matter what kind of light you install above granite, just a matter of intensity. Plus, it depends on what the customer wants it for- looks or task lighting. If it's for task lighting then the dots will be more noticeable because of the way you'll need to install it. I tend to use the tape light for tight or more hidden areas and a concealed/diffused strip for uc lights. This is what I use: Tape: http://m.homedepot.com/p/Armacost-Lighting-12-ft-LED-Warm-Bright-White-Tape-Light-with-Architectural-Quality-RF3528060-12WWD/203227243 Armacost makes a small lv dimmer that is easy to hide Concealed strip: http://www.nslusa.com/ledestrip.html


Where do you locate the transformer?


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## Mshow1323

Service Call said:


> Where do you locate the transformer?


Basement, attic, cabinet above fridge, cabinet below sink, be creative. I just hope B-ri wasn't "creative" enough to hide them behind that cardboard cutout taped to the ceiling. :laughing:


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## B-ri

Mshow1323 said:


> Basement, attic, cabinet above fridge, cabinet below sink, be creative. I just hope B-ri wasn't "creative" enough to hide them behind that cardboard cutout taped to the ceiling. :laughing:


 Touché, the cardboard couldn't support the weight


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## Djcubinlinx

Dennis Alwon said:


> IMO tape lights should not be used for uc lighting. I prefer to use an LED strip light and leave the tape for places where they are more hidden-- There is also the issue with LV wiring being run thru walls.


If you were to run door bell wire (18/2), what's the problem with that? It's only 12 volts, no? As long as you don't run it next to line voltage you should be good, no?


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## electricmalone

Djcubinlinx said:


> If you were to run door bell wire (18/2), what's the problem with that? It's only 12 volts, no? As long as you don't run it next to line voltage you should be good, no?


 Done it for years, no issue. If you're really worried, run shielded 18/2


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## 3D Electric

Djcubinlinx said:


> If you were to run door bell wire (18/2), what's the problem with that? It's only 12 volts, no? As long as you don't run it next to line voltage you should be good, no?


That is what we use for led unders. Works perfectly


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## Electron Cowboy

Djcubinlinx said:


> If you were to run door bell wire (18/2), what's the problem with that? It's only 12 volts, no? As long as you don't run it next to line voltage you should be good, no?


I know this works great, but I was flagged for using it because it's a "signaling cable" and it has no temperature rating. 

Check the manufacturer first, and if they give you nothing I'd run fire alarm cable. That does have the temperature rating on it.


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## electricmalone

Electron Cowboy said:


> I know this works great, but I was flagged for using it because it's a "signaling cable" and it has no temperature rating. Check the manufacturer first, and if they give you nothing I'd run fire alarm cable. That does have the temperature rating on it.


 http://www.heatersplus.com/thermostatwire.html Coleman cable =600deg C


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## Electron Cowboy

Even though it has a "flame rating" ,still no temp rating for the conductor with that CL2 cable. Inspectors tell me to run romex because the conductors are rated @ 60 degree C. It just looks like crap. I've actually used speaker wire and that passed a couple of inspections, so what do I know.


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## electricmalone

Electron Cowboy said:


> Even though it has a "flame rating" ,still no temp rating for the conductor with that CL2 cable. Inspectors tell me to run romex because the conductors are rated @ 60 degree C. It just looks like crap. I've actually used speaker wire and that passed a couple of inspections, so what do I know.


Just recently we started running 16/2 high-strand speaker wire for all LED lighting loads. Just for the reason you mention. As long as the wire is rated for in wall, the inspectors don't care.


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## paulgarett

Wow. Thanks for all the replies. They were great. 
The only problem I encounter with LED tape light is the price. 
The transformer is about $100, the dimmer another $50, the channel, protective lens, and wire mold to hide the low voltage wire adds additional $200 or so, then the LED tape is between $6-$15 per foot. Total materials can easily be about $600, plus labor for about the same amount. Customers who do not really need the UC light but like the idea of adding the effect to their kitchens often shy away from the price.


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