# Challenger Panel



## JamieRex (Feb 26, 2018)

I have a HO whos main breaker on a Challenger Panel is failing and needs to be replaced. The main breaker is no longer being produced (qfp2150-2t) . I see that Zinsco who took over Challenger makes a breaker with the same model number but lacking the staggered plugs. Will this work for the job?


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Is it listed for the panel? By "plugs" do you mean "clips", or "stabs"?
Or.....looks like a perfect opportunity for a panel change.


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## JamieRex (Feb 26, 2018)

By staggered plugs - see attached


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## JamieRex (Feb 26, 2018)

The version in the image is what the HO need but no longer being sold or manufactured but this is using the same model number but lacking the staggered plugs


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Panel change time most likely. That was a bad design. What does the bus look like? What condition is the wire in?


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## JamieRex (Feb 26, 2018)

Everything else on the panel seems to be fine, just the main breaker has some visible corrosion and is causing some dimming of the lights periodically. I agree full panel would be ideal but HO looking for temp fix while gets finances together for a new panel


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm not psychic, but I have some historical data to go by. When you hear something along the lines of, "patch it up as best you can while we save for the service upgrade", that's secret code for: "After you fix it, we're gonna do absolutely nothing for as long as it lasts, and if it fails, we'll call you and suddenly have the money". I'd say the odds are better than 75% on how these scenarios play out over the next decade. There's also pretty high odds this house is your own.


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## JamieRex (Feb 26, 2018)

Are the two versions of the main breaker compatible?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

JamieRex said:


> Are the two versions of the main breaker compatible?


Compatible, as in, will it plug in your panel? Sure. Been a ****'s age since I've had to deal with one, but I think the hold down screws is even in the same spot and you don't need to drill a new hole. 
Compatible, as in, with your skill level? I guess we'll find out. :smile:


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> I'm not psychic, but I have some historical data to go by. When you hear something along the lines of, "patch it up as best you can while we save for the service upgrade", that's secret code for: "After you fix it, we're gonna do absolutely nothing for as long as it lasts, and if it fails, we'll call you and suddenly have the money". I'd say the odds are better than 75% on how these scenarios play out over the next decade. There's also pretty high odds this house is your own.


I did work for a customer a while back and they had this to say.. "When it is something people "Want" they have no problem coming up with the money. When it is for an emergency or maintenance, they are always broke".

Some of those old obsolete units will cost way more long term than a change out now.


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## JamieRex (Feb 26, 2018)

I’ve dealt with the code before, just trying to retain a potential customer, do something now for a bigger job down the road - not my own home


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

JamieRex said:


> I’ve dealt with the code before, just trying to retain a potential customer, do something now for a bigger job down the road - not my own home


I think what guys are saying though... Is we have all heard "I've got more for you" or "In 2 months"...

It rarely if ever happens. 

BTW... I've never seen the first one you posted, the staggered unit. It looks though like a standard breaker with some type of attachment, so maybe it can be removed and installed on the new CB?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Between you and me, Switched, there's a pretty good chance that wire going directly to the existing "straight in" lugs and may not have enough slack to make the 90 into the proposed breaker. What do you think? :vs_cool:


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

It is only a temp fix.... just land it to a 2p20 and let him know to be real carful about what circuits he uses....

Shunk... probably, but replacing those wires is out of the budget too at the moment.....


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Panel change time...not looking for an argument but have to
say...you touch it , your liability kicks in (assuming your insured)


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I also say just change the panel. 

After you change the breaker and other things start failing guess who they will want to fix it for free?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> Between you and me, Switched, there's a pretty good chance that wire going directly to the existing "straight in" lugs and may not have enough slack to make the 90 into the proposed breaker. What do you think? :vs_cool:


Why this sudden reappearance?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MTW said:


> Why this sudden reappearance?


Sometimes you just want to observe the train wreck..... Take a look at the drunks in the bar...

:vs_laugh:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

JamieRex said:


> Are the two versions of the main breaker compatible?


I have see it couple time over here in my area ( philippine ) but not really widespread anyway.,

the busslug yuh it will fit in but the mounting screw IIRC it should be same but the 90° main lug connector that will get ya espcally if it was run short in first place. 

You may have to extended it with set screw barrel otherwise I rather just replace the whole dangbat panel. ya have to look at the other angle is your insurance once you touch it ya are on the hook for it. 

Cost of the Challanger breaker is not really cheap but by time ya spend extra materals and labor to wrestle that new breaker from 90° to straight main lug screws ya better off just get new one and be done with it.

I have see couple 200 amp single phase main breaker fail pretty instering way .,, the bussbar connector below the main breaker what I got failed ( two of them ) in my area.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

MTW said:


> Why this sudden reappearance?


Contractual Obligations?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> I also say just change the panel.
> 
> After you change the breaker and other things start failing guess who they will want to fix it for free?


^ yep ^


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Switched said:


> Sometimes you just want to observe the train wreck..... Take a look at the drunks in the bar...
> 
> :vs_laugh:


If you really really want to observe the train wrecks 
of society , have the time , grab a bag of popcorn , 
go to the city gazebo at your local county seat on 
the 1st of the month...sit down and enjoy the show...

also shown on the first of each month @ your local 
Walmart ...keep an eye out for the county bus line
to roll in


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MTW said:


> Why this sudden reappearance?


Things have gotten out of hand around here. 
I heard some guy got banned (for a while) but
came back.

Additional Moderator demand and all that...


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Good to see you back Marc. How is your new bride?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

lighterup said:


> Things have gotten out of hand around here.
> I heard some guy got banned (for a while) but
> came back.


Oh, who might that be? :whistling2:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Why play games and try to fix an old panel like that?

Just do the right thing and sell them a new panel.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

About a year ago a retired electrician in the wife's family gave me about ten or twelve boxes of ten of Challenger circuit breakers. At least two boxes were double pole 30's. The biggest pile was single pole 15's and 20's . I have been coming across a bunch of challenger panels as well , I probably was the guy who put them in LOL since my old employer only used Challenger brand panels in any new work we did unless it was a conduit job. All have been main lug only subpanels though, none with a 100 amp main like the one in the picture. I say tear it out and replace it with it's granddaughter- Eaton BR series panel. Then in forty years from now, some other sparky will wirelessly communicate to a forum of sorts using telepathy thanks to his Microsoft chip set in his forehead and they will tell him what a pile of sh!t those old Eaton Brand plug in BR panels were, and he should just rip out that crap and replace it with an ElonMusk Razamataz electrical panel.............


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