# Non union journeyman ?



## WorkhardPlayhard (Mar 18, 2018)

What’s up everyone I’m a private electrician give or take almost a mechanic I’m trying my best to find out about local 3 and how I can get in (I’m from nyc) I have a little over 3 years experience can I take a journeyman’s test with the apprenticeship ? Can I get licensed as a journeyman in ny privately? I really don’t know the system to well but I don’t think I would attempt to join a union at less then journeyman’s pay seeing as how I’m 4 1/2 years away from master license which is the end goal. Thanks everybody for all the help Or advice in advanced


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Don't know about NY but the places I seen 3 years you could try out for the apprenticeship or CE / CW programs. Wouldn't recommend CE / CW route. 3 years is not enough to qualify to test as a JW. Sorry, 3 years is not that much experience. The program is 5 years of on the job and school and even after that they are still a bit green.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Unless there’s something wonky in NY I don’t know, your best bet may be to get your JW license outside the union, then organize in as a licensed journeyman. May require more school or OJT than you currently have, dunno.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

WorkhardPlayhard said:


> What’s up everyone I’m a private electrician give or take almost a mechanic I’m trying my best to find out about local 3 and how I can get in (I’m from nyc) I have a little over 3 years experience can I take a journeyman’s test with the apprenticeship ? Can I get licensed as a journeyman in ny privately? I really don’t know the system to well but I don’t think I would attempt to join a union at less then journeyman’s pay seeing as how I’m 4 1/2 years away from master license which is the end goal. Thanks everybody for all the help Or advice in advanced


You would be best going through a full apprenticeship program. Otherwise, you will not get the respect or the proof of JATC that some jobs require if you travel.


Best wishes.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> You would be best going through a full apprenticeship program. Otherwise, you will not get the respect or the proof of JATC that some jobs require if you travel.
> 
> 
> Best wishes.



I was performing testing on a job and the contractor I was working for let me have 2 construction electricians to help. They found out I had not gone through the apprenticeship and refused to work for me, said I had no right to tell them what to do. They went as far as to call the hall wanted me removed from the job. They were asked by the foreman if they could do the testing and said no but could learn it with time. He told them to STFU or leave the job. Needless to say a few "brothers" made my life tough.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

brian john said:


> I was performing testing on a job and the contractor I was working for let me have 2 construction electricians to help. They found out I had not gone through the apprenticeship and refused to work for me, said I had no right to tell them what to do. They went as far as to call the hall wanted me removed from the job. They were asked by the foreman if they could do the testing and said no but could learn it with time. He told them to STFU or leave the job. Needless to say a few "brothers" made my life tough.


What happened to guys that just show up and work, collect a check, and move on when the job is over?


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah. That’s asinine. 

When I first joined, I had several people take me aside and very frankly inform me that if anybody ever gave me trouble for being organized in, let them know. It’s not acceptable. If they ever called me brother-in-law or step brother etc. That’s how the union gets a bad rep. 

They learned very quickly that I was an excellent, knowledgeable asset, very good at my job (not bragging - I’m repeating what I was told), and that I wouldn’t put up with that kind of attitude. I was made foreman only a few months later (and have been on several jobs), and they learned quickly to shut up and do good work. 

I’m sorry you’re being given that kind of treatment. Don’t put up with it. Don’t get in a yelling match. Just quietly and confidently do consistently excellent work with a good attitude. Let that speak for you. And - in private - speak frankly with your foreman, or even your president or business manager, about persistent issues. Make it happen. 

But there’s no substitute for earning that reputation for consistent hard working excellence. That shuts people up.

It’s not a club. It’s not a tree fort with secret handshakes. This is your livelihood. 

/rant


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Masters license in what?


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## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

bostonPedro said:


> Masters license in what?


Master Apprentice.


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## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

I never understood what the value of a jw card is worth in the non union sector , ex I get that you get schooling and training witch is great 

but once you obtain the jw card your not guaranteed a sertain wage 
And you still have to negotiate your pay scale and could end up making same or less than someone that didn’t go through the training .

In some states for non union it is very structured we’re the contractor 
Has to register you and you get cards through testing and you are guaranteed sertain pay , and it works towards your master license 
Witch I get . 

But in states we’re the contractor dosnt have to register you , and 
You go on your own to get a jw card 
I don’t see what it’s worth suddenly 
Your not guaranteed a sertain payscale .

I think your better of going for your master license , or joining union
We’re when you become jw your guarantee a high pay wage .


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## DIRT27 (Aug 25, 2010)

Talk to the union hall and ask them. Most programs are 5 years so I doubt you would be able to test in as a journeyman. You may be able to test in as a 3rd or 4th year apprentice. That would mean less school and a higher pay rate than a first year. You could get some good training along the way and not be held to a journeyman's standards. 

This may be the best route if you are looking to get into the union. Rules are different everywhere but if I remember correctly the guys that organize in as journeyman have to sign a different book than guys that are vested (have a specific number of hours)in the union. This means when work gets slow you have to wait a lot longer than guys that are on "book 1".

I went the opposite route as I started in the union and left as an apprentice to work for a power company that was under a different local. Had a little bit of a falling out when I left the original local I was in and ended up going non union a couple years later when I left the power company. 

With that being said I have a few friends that are IBEW and some that are in unions in other trades. It isn't a bad option and some locals have some great training programs. I wouldn't discourage anyone from joining but you can also be successful working non union.


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

In my state, you have to either be an apprentice, enrolled in a school and carrying a valid state issued card, or a journeyman/master (ie licensed electrician), to be doing ANY electrical work. So, if you have your journeyman license (maybe what you’re calling a jw card) and you’re union, then you get the union-negotiated wage and benefits. If you’re not in a union shop, you individually negotiate (if they let you) your wage and benefits with your boss. But either way, you have to have your license (or apprentice card) to even be working in the trade. That’s here in NH. Not sure if that answers your question. 

Yer face.


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## WorkhardPlayhard (Mar 18, 2018)

maybe i wasn't straight forward enough 


1.) with my 3 years experience in private sector can i take a journeyman test so i can attempt to join a union and get the wages journeyman get ?

2.) if 3 years isn't enough experience can i do the same in 5 years?

3.) what are A grade mechanics in local 3>>>>>> is there a grade b,c,d, etc/

4.) if i don't have a journeyman license or don't want to do the apprenticeship can i work as a mechanic in local 3 with decent wage 30+ hourly 


and again i don't know how unions work i just hear things from time to time I'm not sure what to believe anymore i appreciate all advice/feedback everyone thank you for all the help


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Again, what state are you in? Was it NY? Because you’d have to look it up there. Your state electrical board or licensing board website. 

In NH, to do electrical work, you need a license (or apprentice card). To sit for the journeyman licensing exam (not the union entrance exam), you are required to have had 600 hours of classroom training, and 8000 hours of recorded on-the-job training. The 8000h of OTJ, furthermore, must be under the direct employ of a master licensed electrician. Not just generic experience. With those documented and notarized, you can apply for a date to take the exam. 

With 3 years of (probably undocumented) “experience”, and no classroom hours, you absolutely can’t sit for the journeyman’s license. You MAY be able to “test out” of a few years of schooling and enter the union as a second or third year apprentice (making those wages). 

And where the 5 year thing comes in ... like I said, my state requires 600 documented hours of state approved classroom training. For someone in an open shop (non-union), this is generally four years (150h/year) of night school. Our local gives you this (and you can then sit for the journeyman exam), but they also had chosen to go above and beyond and have a fifth year of schooling. So you’d be a licensed journeyman after four years and your test, but still have one year of school left and not be making full inside wireman wage yet. But that’s in NH. 

I don’t know anything about local 3 mechanics or any of that. Sorry. 

Hope that helps.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

brian john said:


> I was performing testing on a job and the contractor I was working for let me have 2 construction electricians to help. They found out I had not gone through the apprenticeship and refused to work for me, said I had no right to tell them what to do. They went as far as to call the hall wanted me removed from the job. They were asked by the foreman if they could do the testing and said no but could learn it with time. He told them to STFU or leave the job. Needless to say a few "brothers" made my life tough.


And things like this are what hurt and makes the Union look bad


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