# Securing M/C cable to metal studs.



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

TAHJ----Its his/her call.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I hear ya and feel yer pain. everyonce in a while you gonna get a live one. I don't believe it says anything in the code about about securing methods for mc having to be listed, but I could be wrong. We've installed just like you described many times, but we usually use j straps near the boxes.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Chuckmeister728 said:


> .....,he blurted out "I'm not approving anything that's not in the book!".


Ask him to show you where MC/BX straps are in the book. :whistling2:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Why not just use CJ6's?


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## HAND (Jul 15, 2010)

I know a guy who worked on the utility side and wanted to see what it was like to do some work on the other side of the meter.
Gone in two weeks.


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## HAND (Jul 15, 2010)

Of course this guy never followed my advice, I told him: when the inspector comes in the only thing he should see are butts and elbows.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

HAND said:


> Of course this guy never followed my advice, I told him: when the inspector comes in the only thing he should see are butts and elbows.


 Why does the inspector want to see a$$holes and elbows? I'm sure the inspector would rather see no one in his way and no one wanting to gobble his root.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Sounds like the inspector is a piece of ****, I'd call him every name of in the book and then call his superior and give him some chin music as well.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> Sounds like the inspector is a piece of ****, I'd call him every name of in the book and then call his superior and give him some chin music as well.


 Down here they don't by tie wire on mc so call the chief will not solve a thing.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Call his boss next time.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Chuckmeister728 said:


> The inspector shot me down saying "Tie wire is not approved!". When I pointed out (gently) that as AHJ he could approve almost any method he liked,he blurted out "I'm not approving anything that's not in the book!". So I installed the plastic cable ties and flimsy fold over clips he demanded. BTW This person has been inspector for 15 years.


15 years of carrying that chip on his shoulder has made him a bitter man. What an Ahole.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Down here they don't by tie wire on mc so call the chief will not solve a thing.


Sure it would, it would relay how I feel to the inspectors. I use tie wire for a lot, especially underground installations. I guarantee you the inspector is a terd and it should be brought to his attention. You would be surprised how much action you get from the inspectors boss's with a phone call. They usually don't like their guys being ****s.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Chuckmeister728 said:


> The inspector shot me down saying "Tie wire is not approved!"


Then there are one hell of a lot of buildings on the eastern seaboard that are just chock full of this code violation. The horror! :icon_rolleyes: The stick up that guy's butt must have a stick up it's butt.

-John


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> Sure it would, it would relay how I feel to the inspectors. I use tie wire for a lot, especially underground installations. I guarantee you the inspector is a terd and it should be brought to his attention. You would be surprised how much action you get from the inspectors boss's with a phone call. They usually don't like their guys being ****s.


 Calling them on tie wire on mc is a waste of time, but using it on PVC underground isn't anything wrong with.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't really know whether or not tie wire meets code. I do understand that there has to be a line drawn somewhere on what we can use for securing. If tie wire is ok, how about poly line, if that's ok, how about bailing twine? Maybe use liquid nails to glue a panel on as you are out of anchors. I won't use tie wire to secure MC or EMT. On PVC in a direct burial or concrete encased situation of coures I use tie wire. It isn't there to support it though, only keep it in place.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> ... I won't use tie wire to secure MC....


 This must be a regional thing then. Like I said, I've done a number of high-rises where every piece of MC in them was secured with tie-wire. 

I've worked in DC, VA, NJ, NH, and MA, and I've seen this in dozens of commercial buildings in every one of those states.

-John


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

It must be, never seen it done here. I've used zip ties and screws. That seemed kinda cheesy to me but wasn't my call.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Chuckmeister728 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> New guy here, so please bear with me!
> Here goes. I've been in this trade along time, and I've never had this problem before. See, I used 16 ga. mild steel tie wire (just like they bind the coils with.) to secure 12/2 m/c cable to steel studs in an office re-build project. I have used tie wire in this fashion many times over the years--- No problems. Until now.
> ...


Funny thing is; we use tie wire on EMT. Is that a bad thing too??


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Funny thing is; we use tie wire on EMT. Is that a bad thing too??


 Yes. :jester:

-John


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

Gotta be regional like the SEC for a service drop....tie-wire wouldn't fly around here or SEC/PVC mast on a service.....not saying any of it is unsafe, but until coming to this site I had never heard or seen any of these methods....it's all AHJ as others mentioned.....


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I've seen some nice racks made of tie wire and pencil rod.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Widestance_Politics said:


> Gotta be regional like the SEC for a service drop....tie-wire wouldn't fly around here or SEC/PVC mast on a service.....not saying any of it is unsafe, but until coming to this site I had never heard or seen any of these methods....it's all AHJ as others mentioned.....


Does Boise have local codes? I know Idaho doesn't amend the NEC like WA does.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

nitro71 said:


> Does Boise have local codes? I know Idaho doesn't amend the NEC like WA does.


Ya we have local codes.....we are required to run Rigid service masts among other things, and requirements differ between State and City inspections....I doubt they have a specific addendum regarding tie-wire and MC but I can tell you that I am 99.9% positive that it would not fly here...I give it a .1 chance of passing for that one inspector that doesn't get out of his truck....


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

never seen tie wire, huh ? how do you guys tie mc to bar joists ?


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

wildleg said:


> never seen tie wire, huh ? how do you guys tie mc to bar joists ?


What exactly are you referring to by bar joist? Caddy and other manufacturers make many different hangers for many different applications, and in almost every application tie-wire or poly-line or nothing at all would be easier.....I'm not saying that the OP did anything wrong or unsafe, just saying that out here I would be more surprised to pass an inspection after tie-wiring mc to steel studs than I would be to fail it.....


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you never did a home depot, office depot, box store - how did you attache mc to the bar joists (I'm asking cause I wanna know - we have tie wired a lot of mc/reloc to bar joists before it got sprayed - looks ****ty at clg level but from the ground looks fine)  you said your inspector doesn't allow mc to be attached with tie wire so I'm asking how you attach it.


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

Speedy Petey said:


> Ask him to show you where MC/BX straps are in the book. :whistling2:


it does not have to be in the book


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Zip ties. They are the MC cables friend.




Bkessler said:


> I've seen some nice racks made of tie wire and pencil rod.


I've seen some nice racks too, but they weren't made of tie wire and pencil rod.


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## Widestance_Politics (Jun 2, 2010)

wildleg said:


> you never did a home depot, office depot, box store - how did you attache mc to the bar joists (I'm asking cause I wanna know - we have tie wired a lot of mc/reloc to bar joists before it got sprayed - looks ****ty at clg level but from the ground looks fine) you said your inspector doesn't allow mc to be attached with tie wire so I'm asking how you attach it.


Closest was a Wal-Mart and an Albertsons Grocery which were both specced out with EMT...if by bar joist you mean red steel? or trusswork? any mc was strapped with Caddy clips...the type you hammer on, attach to a beamclamp, etc.....now that I think about it , I have noticed mc zip-tied in the angle-iron at places like Home Depot.....you would fail trying to tie-wire or zip-tie to steel stud framing tho.....if a guy could do it here, the contractors would be doing it...


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

knowshorts;259211
I've seen some nice racks too said:


> I was waiting for that, feel free to post pics.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

plastic zip tie = 5 seconds
tie wire = 30 seconds
Why use tie wire?

Mc is not required to be secured by a "listed" means. Art 330.30 (a) says it must be an approved method. It does not say tie wires shall not be used. I would of called his boss and asked if they could accept it this time. Is there really a difference between a staple,tie, strap hangar or similar fitting? I dont think so.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Big John said:


> Yes. :jester:
> 
> -John


The Caddy folks must have have a free seminar and re-defined "securely fastened. 
Are we now supposed to tie our pipe to the slab with ty-wraps??


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> plastic zip tie = 5 seconds
> tie wire = 30 seconds
> Why use tie wire?


No offense but I tie wire a pipe in place just as fast or faster than someone poking around with ty-wraps or what ever you "Northerners" call them.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

> *330.30 Securing and Supporting.
> 
> (A) General.* Type MC cable shall be supported and secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings or other approved means designed and installed so as not to damage the cable.


To me the above allows tie wire.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

jrannis said:


> No offense but I tie wire a pipe in place just as fast or faster than someone poking around with ty-wraps or what ever you "Northerners" call them.


 


No offense but there is no way a weight challenged:jesterfat boy) such as yourself can install tie wire as fast as as I can tie straps. Just not possible. :no:

Ok maybe it wouldn't take a full 30 seconds to use a tie but I dont think you could do it as quick as this yankee can zip ties.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I don't know if I can tie wire as fast as zip a tie wrap but I do know without a doubt the end product is much more secure with steel wire than zip ties or any Caddy / B-Line product.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> I don't know if I can tie wire as fast as zip a tie wrap but I do know without a doubt the end product is much more secure with steel wire than zip ties or any Caddy / B-Line product.


 
I agree with that. :thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

This is what we use a lot of, I think it is 16 AWG.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

HAND said:


> Of course this guy never followed my advice, I told him: when the inspector comes in the only thing he should see are butts and elbows.


 


Every single one of your post belong in the "off topic" category


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> No offense but there is no way a weight challenged:jesterfat boy) such as yourself can install tie wire as fast as as I can tie straps. Just not possible. :no:
> 
> Ok maybe it wouldn't take a full 30 seconds to use a tie but I dont think you could do it as quick as this yankee can zip ties.


I dont have to bend over to tie EMT on metal studs.
I might be fat, but you are a wormy wanna be rat contractor and I can loose weight!

Come back and jerk my chain and tell me how its done when you have been in the trade for 30 years boy!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> No offense but there is no way a weight challenged:jesterfat boy) such as yourself can install tie wire as fast as as I can tie straps. Just not possible. :no:
> 
> Ok maybe it wouldn't take a full 30 seconds to use a tie but I dont think you could do it as quick as this yankee can zip ties.


 

Not with the right tie wire. I have the 8" pieces with a loop on each end.
The twister handle swivels and has a hook on the end you feed each loop through. I GUARANTEE I CAN INSTALL 2 PIECES OF WIRE TO YOU SINGLE ZIP TIE

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/...Tie-Wire-Twister/144262/Cat/1022?SSAID=198698


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I have never seen these long enough to wrap a standard stud.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I have never seen these long enough to wrap a standard stud.


 

Not a stud, I use the on round bar joist for mc and emt. They barely reach, but they tighten up really tight and secure quickly


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

voltz said:


> it does not have to be in the book


My point exactly. :thumbsup:


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I will say one thing - you can see the zip ties from the ground, and they look like crap


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

If you are using tie wire a safety wire tool makes it look a lot neater.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

drsparky said:


> If you are using tie wire a safety wire tool makes it look a lot neater.


You can't be serious.

A guy using safety wire pliers to tie MC would have to be an IBEW member.:laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Hey,
Ive used them..............to safety wire air starters................ many moons ago


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> You can't be serious.
> 
> A guy using safety wire pliers to tie MC would have to be an IBEW member.:laughing:


Come on Bob, are you going to let time savings get in the way of craftsmanship? I pull a pair out of the bottom of my tool chest once every few years to show the young whippersnapper a tool they have never seen before. I rarely see MC and only use tie wire underground. But it is still a cool tool.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I don't know if I can tie wire as fast as zip a tie wrap but *I do know without a doubt the end product is much more secure with steel wire than zip ties or any Caddy / B-Line product.*


It doesn't matter in the least how secure mc is secured. It's is just to hold it in place when the walls go up. Read the exception on fishing mc, securing not necessary. So reading between the lines, it doesn't have to be bullet proof. 

Sure tie wire is cheaper that zip-ties, but no tools are required. There is absolutely no reason to spend money on some fancy Caddy/B-line product when a $0.05 zip-tie will do the job. 

As far as exposed work goes, Installing exposed MC is an art, and can be installed neatly.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> It doesn't matter in the least how secure mc is secured. It's is just to hold it in place when the walls go up. Read the exception on fishing mc, securing not necessary. So reading between the lines, it doesn't have to be bullet proof.


Did I say it had to be bullet proof, I was just pointing out it is.

When I was doing Condos in the 80s it was NM with metal studs, we used cheap black electrical tape to hold the NMs in place.


> Sure tie wire is cheaper that zip-ties, but no tools are required.


For me the same tool is required, just my linesmen.



> There is absolutely no reason to spend money on some fancy Caddy/B-line product when a $0.05 zip-tie will do the job.


I agree except we get job specs that prohibit nylon ties.




> As far as exposed work goes, Installing exposed MC is an art, and can be installed neatly.


I will never agree anything in our trade is an art but I do agree it can be done neatly.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

I'm betting the inspector read Shorty's posting on heat dissipation of painted SE cable, and failed you because the tie wires would inhibit the heat dissipation of the MC cable? :thumbup:


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Down here they don't by tie wire on mc so call the chief will not solve a thing.


Thats the problem. "Down Here." Ever see how a southerner rolls up an extension cord? 



jrannis said:


> Funny thing is; we use tie wire on EMT. Is that a bad thing too??


Me too and still do it if I get the chance. 



jrannis said:


> No offense but I tie wire a pipe in place just as fast or faster than someone poking around with ty-wraps or what ever you "Northerners" call them.


I have never in my life used one tyrap on a construction project. They have one use and one use only. To strap many wires together for looks.



mcclary's electrical said:


> Not with the right tie wire. I have the 8" pieces with a loop on each end.
> The twister handle swivels and has a hook on the end you feed each loop through. I GUARANTEE I CAN INSTALL 2 PIECES OF WIRE TO YOU SINGLE ZIP TIE
> 
> http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/...Tie-Wire-Twister/144262/Cat/1022?SSAID=198698


Never used them. To expensive and unnecessary. Tie wire reel and go.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Condemning the use of tie wire to secure mc only confirms to me that the individual doing the inspection has a power trip going on in his own mind. By virtue of applying and getting hired for a position which he may have had to pass a quiz for, he now gets to assume he is a supreme intellect and knows way more about the trade than you do, regardless if he is ignorant or not. Luckily, those jerks are becoming rarer than before. I can tell you that before they were the norm. I think the internet and forums like this have helped to reduce that. Maybe this individual about which the thread revolved around will happen upon it and read it, or maybe some other inspector who acts in the same manner, and start to mellow out and follow the code, not the "way I like it done" mentality.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Most guys in my area use CJ's for MC on metal studs, but electrical tape and duct tape is still the main method most seem to use around here for romex on metal studs.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

My only complaint with tie-wire and conduit would be that the few times I've seen it, it's been a bottom-dollar install, usually pretty ripe with code violations, and 9 times out of 10, the conduit is also loose as hell.

It's sorta like seeing electrical tape on wire nuts. It may be perfectly legal, and by itself, there's nothing wrong with it, but it always makes me nervous about what else I'm gonna find.

-John


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

jrannis said:


> I dont have to bend over to tie EMT on metal studs
> 
> 
> And I bet your back and co workers thanks God for that everyday!:jester:
> ...


Dad started in 1970. Got his EC in 1974. It amazes me how much knowledge is in that head. I love working with him because of that 30+ years in the trade. I may give you old guys a hard time but I wouldn't trade ya for the world. I hope I 'm still involved in the trade in 30years.

I'm pretty fast with wire ties. I just think insert and pull is easier on your body. I like the zip ties and have used regular ties. Its just what I like. What I'm used to and perfer. Old guys rule!! PS: lose some weight before you have a heart attack!


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Not with the right tie wire. I have the 8" pieces with a loop on each end.
> The twister handle swivels and has a hook on the end you feed each loop through. I GUARANTEE I CAN INSTALL 2 PIECES OF WIRE TO YOU SINGLE ZIP TIE
> 
> http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/...Tie-Wire-Twister/144262/Cat/1022?SSAID=198698


 

I have no idea if you could or couldn't. The metal ties I've used before I could not do as fast as zip ties. Using the type you posted I see a time savings. I just like insert zip snip. I always want to learn how others do things. Thanks!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I have no idea if you could or couldn't. The metal ties I've used before I could not do as fast as zip ties. Using the type you posted I see a time savings. I just like insert zip snip. I always want to learn how others do things. Thanks!


 

One reason I like wire, is because if the ceiling you're working over turns out to be a plenum and you (somehow) didn't know it, the ties are not legal. So I use wire everywhere pretty much. I really only use zip ties on wires, or to attach sealtite along linesets. But conduit or mc, should get either the appropriate strap, or steel wire (IMO)


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> One reason I like wire, is because if the ceiling you're working over turns out to be a plenum and you (somehow) didn't know it, the ties are not legal. So I use wire everywhere pretty much. I really only use zip ties on wires, or to attach sealtite along linesets. But conduit or mc, should get either the appropriate strap, or steel wire (IMO)


I did an AutoZone store where the spec was to use fluorescent orange zip ties. The store was pretty much all MC, and they painted the underside of the decking and the bar joists orange. 

They do make plenum rated zip ties. I think they're purple, normally.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> They do make plenum rated zip ties. I think they're purple, normally.


 I have seen them in red.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I don't think I have ever zip tied conduit.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I don't think I have ever zip tied conduit.


 

Me neither, but what do you use to fasten emt on bar joist?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Me neither, but what do you use to fasten emt on bar joist?


 A caddy clip.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> Thats the problem. "Down Here." Ever see how a southerner rolls up an extension cord?


 You can't say that all southerners "roll" drop cords up. 95% of the people that I know braid them so that it is easier to use the next time.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Big John said:


> My only complaint with tie-wire and conduit would be that the few times I've seen it, it's been a bottom-dollar install, usually pretty ripe with code violations, and 9 times out of 10, the conduit is also loose as hell.
> 
> It's sorta like seeing electrical tape on wire nuts. It may be perfectly legal, and by itself, there's nothing wrong with it, but it always makes me nervous about what else I'm gonna find.
> 
> -John


Bad analogy John.



mcclary's electrical said:


> Me neither, but what do you use to fasten emt on bar joist?


Tie wire doubled.



william1978 said:


> You can't say that all southerners "roll" drop cords up. 95% of the people that I know braid them so that it is easier to use the next time.


Gotcha William. :laughing: I knew you would admit to braiding.:whistling2: Never ever saw braiding until I moved to this armpit.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> Gotcha William. :laughing: I knew you would admit to braiding.:whistling2: Never ever saw braiding until I moved to this armpit.


 Maybe one day you too will braid your cords.:laughing::whistling2::jester:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> Bad analogy John.


 How is the truth a bad analogy? :blink:

-John


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Big John said:


> How is the truth a bad analogy? :blink:
> 
> -John


 

It is a bad analogy. Taping wire nuts is a true sign of an amature. Tywire to secure conduit from bar joist is no such indication, or comparison


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> It is a bad analogy. Taping wire nuts is a true sign of an amature. Tywire to secure conduit from bar joist is no such indication, or comparison


 Maybe not in the world at large, but *in my experience,* it is exactly that.

I don't see it often where I am. When I have seen it, it was party to hack work.

Now, cue all the guys getting all indignant, saying that I called them hacks because they tie-wire conduit. 

-John


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Badger Bob said:


> Bob Badger is a douche


 
Summers eve probally out sells it thou.....:laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Summers eve probally out sells it thou.....:laughing:


:laughing:

No surprise, do you have any idea what Badger Douche smells like?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> :laughing:
> 
> No surprise, do you have any idea what Badger Douche smells like?


Ummm IDK maybe a wild Badger?:laughing:


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I don't think I have ever zip tied conduit.


your a professional :thumbsup:


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## Chuckmeister728 (Jul 23, 2010)

Holy Cow! Never thought my inquiry would generate this much activity! I knew the tie wire would definitely hold the m/c cable securely,I did not expect to be told it was wrong.

The AHJ can approve any installation he/she wants. So if your inspector shows up after a "three martini lunch" the sky's the limit!

I dislike plastic ties to support anything over head,as they will fail in a fire and possibly cause whatever they drop to trip-up a firefighter!

Thanks for the great responses! C728


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## ChivoElDiablo (Jul 31, 2010)

*Caddy to the Rescue*

Pull out your caddy catalog and order the Caddy MAC-2. Remember that material does'nt kill a job labor does!! With one-hole straps you have the added labor of lugging around a screw gun and added time to try to hold the MC in place as you secure it, not including the time it takes to replace a run of MC that has been assaulted by an angry sheetrock screw because you failed to maintain proper distance from the edge of the stud. The mac-2 is installed with a quick slap of the linemans and if turned with the back out acts as a strike plate against those angry screws, and you always maintain proper distance from the edge of the stud. If you shoot a few mac's to the ceiling as you are roughing in your walls and use them as you pull your MC you will have a large percentage of your ceiling strapping completed as you go.......NEVER PAY FOR THE SAME TURF TWICE!!!!!!!


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

The best price I just found for your mac-2s is 0.54. My zip ties are 0.05 and require no tools to install, do not need a hole punched in the stud, are are faster to install.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Chuckmeister728 said:


> Holy Cow! Never thought my inquiry would generate this much activity! I knew the tie wire would definitely hold the m/c cable securely,I did not expect to be told it was wrong.
> 
> The AHJ can approve any installation he/she wants. So if your inspector shows up after a "three martini lunch" the sky's the limit!
> 
> ...


If I was your customer I'd be annoyed that you used tie wire to secure the MC and would not hire you again. Same thing if I go into a mechanic shop and they are using Harbor Freight tools and Fram oil filters. Not going back. If I'm paying someone a professional wage I expect them to perform at a higher level and do a better job than I could as the customer.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> If I was your customer I'd be annoyed that you used tie wire to secure the MC and would not hire you again


Interesting.

So the thousands of feet of RMC installed in Boston buildings buildings by the IBEW supported by tie wire is bad work?

Hmmm.

The buildings went up in the 30s, 40s and 50,s the RMC has not moved yet. :thumbsup:

Tie wire is much more secure than any caddy product.

I am more annoyed by people using caddy CJ-6s that just bend in the wind.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I just personaly think it doesn't show craftsmanship. Suppose if I was looking for the dirt cheapest bid and that's what I got I wouldn't mind. I always think about this time I bought a car and the "mechanic" was going to fix something wrong with it before I bought it and out comes a roll of tie wire. He was from south of the border. I explained how it wasn't fixed like that on a car I owned.


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## ChivoElDiablo (Jul 31, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So the thousands of feet of RMC installed in Boston buildings buildings by the IBEW supported by tie wire is bad work?


Too easy BOB, you are comparing work performed by the codes of the times to now....besides the Brotherhood of esmaculated women is never wrong. What were we thinking.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> I just personaly think it doesn't show craftsmanship. Suppose if I was looking for the dirt cheapest bid and that's what I got I wouldn't mind. I always think about this time I bought a car and the "mechanic" was going to fix something wrong with it before I bought it and out comes a roll of tie wire. He was from south of the border. I explained how it wasn't fixed like that on a car I owned.


Just out of curiosity how many years have you done nothing but bend pipe for eight hours a day five days a week?


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> Just out of curiosity how many years have you done nothing but bend pipe for eight hours a day five days a week?


I've bent enough that I'm comfortable bending conduit. What's that have to do with tie wiring MC?


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

workmanship, craftsmanship, professional journeyman electrician


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

ChivoElDiablo said:


> Too easy BOB, you are comparing work performed by the codes of the times to now....besides the Brotherhood of esmaculated women is never wrong. What were we thinking.


The NEC still allows tie wire to be used to secure raceways and cables, in many areas it is still quite common.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

I use tie wire to secure mc all day long above where drop ceilings are installed in retail and restaurants and the like. 

I am all for quality work and craftsmanship but in this day and age I see no reason to price a job like those with pipe, first of all you probably are not going to win the job and second off it usually ends up being a huge waste of pipe because in 5 or so years most of those places are getting gutted and changed into something else. Ok, well I guess MC will be wasted too but at least if you wanted to reuse some of it you could move it easily.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

around the jurisdiction I work for, it is common to see the EC's use tie wire to support the MC / AC cables above ceilings. On the metal studs we normally see CJ-6's


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I have never seen these long enough to wrap a standard stud.


You need one of these.
http://www.service.kleintools.com/T...el STEELTOOL-CONSTRTOOL-TIEWIRE/Product/27400


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