# Intercepting a 1200 amp service for a 300kw



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

First step,
Get the generator pad poured.
9 yards
10'x20'x18"


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Looks like you found a better driver than last time, he new what the tempering valve was and didn’t unload too fast.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

460 Delta said:


> Looks like you found a better driver than last time, he new what the tempering valve was and didn’t unload too fast.


I ordered pump mix with a 6" slump and asked him to make it 7" before he unloaded it.
He took it easy on us.
In hindsight, we unevenly loaded the form causing it to slightly push the top of the far side out of plumb. 
We put 4 pieces of 3/4" PVC as a spreader with 3/8" all-thread in them.
We connected the ends together with tie wire to keep them from bulging out.
to keep the concrete from getting under the form and heaving it up, we pull the plastic vapor barrier up and tack it to the forms.
The guys will strip the forms tomorrow morning.
It will be interesting to see how we did.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

You shouldn't have any honeycomb on the sides to amount to much, the slump was loose enough and you hit it with the vibrator a good bit. Looks good to me, give us some pics after the forms are stripped.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Pictures don't do it justice. We stripped it 18 hours after it was poured.
The 1200amp ATS is there on the right.
I'm going to set it over a pull box Oldcastle N48 
We have 8- 4" and 5- 3" PVC coming in underneath the Switch,
62 conductors ranging in size from 250 Al to 600 AL


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Do you find it easier/more convenient to pour your own, maybe cheaper than buying a premade one? Not a criticism, but just interested in how and why people do things. I haven't had to do one that large yet and logistics place such a role in doing even the small ones well. I see your posts and they always have you building a form and pouring your own.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> Do you find it easier/more convenient to pour your own, maybe cheaper than buying a premade one? Not a criticism, but just interested in how and why people do things. I haven't had to do one that large yet and logistics place such a role in doing even the small ones well. I see your posts and they always have you building a form and pouring your own.


We usually bring in a machine to dig in our conduits. 
$300 to $600
It segues into grading for the pad.
$300 in forming materials and about 24 man hours, $300 of rebar, and $1000 in concrete and I get to keep the $5000 pad allowance.

We lucked out on this one and moved the forms from one job to the next.
They were close enough to sister in a single sheet of plywood to extend the forms.

I’m going to keep the forms, we have a 500kw and I’d like to get one more pour out of those forms before we drop back to 12” slabs.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

The thing about concrete is it's unforgiving. And I have poured some ugly looking concrete. :vs_laugh:

That turned out pretty good. Great job!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I took several pics but they are a PITA to upload so whipped them into a video. :chef:
It starts with choosing a good spot for the ATS clear of any underground conflicts.
That didn't happen but, we were able to have a 1-1/2" waterline moved out of our way.
We compacted 2 tons of lime rock around the generator conduits up to an elevation of about -24" below finished grade and installed a 36" x 54" x 10" Old Castle concrete extension ring over the conduits.
We then compacted a ton of lime rock around 3 sides of the exterior of the extension ring.
We used a concrete saw to cut 30" out of one side of the extension to install the utility and the load side conduits.
The top finished 14" section of the concrete handhole was then placed on the extension ring and a final ton of lime rock was compacted around the upper section. We placed the covers on the top of the handhold so that we could drive the plate compactor over it. 
All of this work was done to give us space under the ATS to manage and pull the cables. ASCO designed the cabinet so that we only get a 30X24" space in the bottom for stub ups. Even better, we have to terminate 20- 400s on the main breaker which is about 14" from the bottom of the cabinet.

We removed the handhole covers and placed two 36" x 60" x 4" precast slabs over the handhole to set the ATS on. We cut out our 30" x 24" stub up area out of one of the precast slabs.

There are a few ways to accomplish 1200 amps and we decided to represent three of them here due to the existing conduits, space for new conduits and the availability of conductors.
The existing service we are intercepting is 5 sets of 400 copper.
We will cut them out of the existing 3" concrete encased duct bank and splice them onto 400 aluminum in a hand hole and bring them into the ATS.
We prefer to use 3 sets of 600 AL for this size service and used that for the generator side into the ATS.
We are always concerned with time during a planned outage and had to find a way to complete all of our ATS terminations before the outage.
We couldn't pipe into the utility transformer until the existing secondary was removed. 
We decided to use 4 sets of Wofford URD Quadplex https://www.nassaunationalcable.com/products/500-qaudruplex
The space was tight so we needed to run our utility under the space we will be setting the load side splice handhole.
We installed PVC about 12" under the bottom elevation of the handhole to a location about 24" from the utility transformer and pulled in the quadplex so that we could make up the utility side of our ATS. On D-Day, we will remove the 5 sets of 400s, turn them into our hand hole for splicing and then shove the quadplex into the secondary side of the utility transformer for the cable splicers to terminate. 

Sorry of the wall of text:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

*We finished up yesterday*

D-Day was Wednesday.
Total success but hot as H E double toothpicks out.
We rented a swamp cooler fan from Sunbelt. It was a game-changer.










A video of the guys crimping a few of the 20 splices we had to make.
We had at least 2 dozen of those dies to strip that 400 MCM and 400 XLPE, not one of them worked. It killed our productivity.

This is the electric hydraulic pump we use in its full glory.
I couldn't imagine using a battery or hand pump for these:






We put one of the lids on for the utility guys:









We brought in 2 tons of 57 rock for the base and finished it off with the sand. what we couldn't grade out we spread out on the property.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks for the update. I always enjoy these threads. The more pictures the better!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Forge Boyz said:


> Thanks for the update. I always enjoy these threads. The more pictures the better!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


The guys take dozens of pics but, if I try to upload them using a mobile device, they always seem to end up sideways.
They keep their orientation if I upload them using a computer.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

The utility guys said that they do not crimp conductors anymore, they use the type that has a setscrew that breaks off when they are properly torqued. The lug type is sitting on top of the junction box cover.
Shear bolt Mechanical Splices:






I wouldn't mind using them but the but splice crimps are irresistibly cheap and easy to use.
I have a multi-conductor size project coming up. I might give them a try


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

*A pre splice pic*

We just got 5 sets of 4 copper 400s in 3" PVC with a 3/0 ground.
It sucked.
The face tells the story.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

It's really odd to see a communist engaging in that evil capitalism.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> The utility guys said that they do not crimp conductors anymore, they use the type that has a setscrew that breaks off when they are properly torqued. The lug type is sitting on top of the junction box cover.


How widespread is their use & for how long? Panel lugs similar to that came out years back. Don't recall who made them.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> How widespread is their use & for how long? Lugs similar to that came out years back. Don't recall who made them.


They must be off patent.
Raychem, Tyco and others have them.
The published prices are outrageous. $150 +.
I'll get some RFPs out for our upcoming job that has 30 conductors with 5 different sizes.
I like the design they have. One splice can cover six sizes of cable.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> They must be off patent.
> Raychem, Tyco and others have them.
> The published prices are outrageous. $150 +.
> I'll get some RFPs out for our upcoming job that has 30 conductors with 5 different sizes.
> I like the design they have. One splice can cover six sizes of cable.


Maybe locktite on the threads?


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> They must be off patent.
> Raychem, Tyco and others have them.
> The published prices are outrageous. $150 +.
> I'll get some RFPs out for our upcoming job that has 30 conductors with 5 different sizes.
> I like the design they have. One splice can cover six sizes of cable.


found this in my YT feed. Splice is at about 00:26 seconds...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> found this in my YT feed. Splice is at about 00:26 seconds...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1LhNsT8Nt8


You dont want to make a single mistake on that splice.
I'm sure those giant size cold shrinks aren't cheap.
I bought some from a supplier in town and paid cash for them.
We tried to use them and found the white nylon pulls were rotten and kept breaking off.
Needless to say we have a dozen or so of them stuffed in a box somewhere. They cost about $30 each. Everyone is afraid to be the one that throws them out.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Southeast Power said:


> We just got 5 sets of 4 copper 400s in 3" PVC with a 3/0 ground.
> It sucked.
> The face tells the story.


Dirty work, but it pays the bills right? 

Good job.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

The best part about those types of jobs is turning in all that scrap wire at the end!


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> You dont want to make a single mistake on that splice.
> I'm sure those giant size cold shrinks aren't cheap.
> I bought some from a supplier in town and paid cash for them.
> We tried to use them and found the white nylon pulls were rotten and kept breaking off.
> Needless to say we have a dozen or so of them stuffed in a box somewhere. They cost about $30 each. Everyone is afraid to be the one that throws them out.


Have you contacted 3M to get them exchanged for a good nylon pull?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MHElectric said:


> The best part about those types of jobs is turning in all that scrap wire at the end!


We had a job about two years ago that had so much rabbit, my one-ton truck couldn't take it all and we rented a trailer.
The local scrap yard gave us the same price as bare with the insulation on it.
They didn't have enough cash on hand to pay us off.
I'm sure it was a good payday for them too.
The regulars were in line with beer cans and radiator parts.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Southeast Power said:


> We had a job about two years ago that had so much rabbit, my one-ton truck couldn't take it all and we rented a trailer.
> The local scrap yard gave us the same price as bare with the insulation on it.
> They didn't have enough cash on hand to pay us off.
> I'm sure it was a good payday for them too.
> The regulars were in line with beer cans and radiator parts.


That's the best part about commercial construction. 

Only time I made better than that off of scrap was when I used to do national lighting retrofits. We would tear out enough light fixtures each week to put an extra $200-500 in our pockets on top of our regular paycheck. 

Getting paid and getting paid.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

**** I hate getting old stock cold shrinks with bad nylon, and it never happens at a good time either, always on the last splice on a Friday afternoon.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> **** I hate getting old stock cold shrinks with bad nylon, and it never happens at a good time either, always on the last splice on a Friday afternoon.


Thanks.:smile:
Now I know its a thing.:sad:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I did a splice on a feeder that got the old backhoe locate a couple months back and the supply house had 4 cold shrinks and I rolled the dice and 2 of the 4 just kept breaking off. I ended up grabbing the wrong end with needle nose and yanking as much as I could and rolling with it, there may have been an unshrunk spot in the middle oh well.


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