# Is this panel code compliant?



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

508 compliant?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

No, it isn't.......

1) It needs a door.

2) You can't have cords hanging out the open door.

lol.

Seriously, it most likely is compliant. I've built and seen many panels that need the door opened in order to reset something. 

The door has a mechanical interlock so it isn't normally opened unless the main is turned off. This would likely make it ok to have to open the door to reset stuff. 

You'll need to cover the lugs at the bottom of the main though. Everything energized with the main off needs to be finger-safe. 

I've never seen a buzzer aside of a cabinet before; bet it makes an interesting sound......

Is the cabinet UL listed? Personally, I think this requirement is about as dumb as you can get, but as we all know.....rules are rules.......


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

rulz....uh yeah micro .....anyone familiar with nfpa79?


i'm not.....


~CS~


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

There are automatic transfer panels where the breakers are behind covers that have screws.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

It's likely compliant if listed by an NRTL, but without that, only the NEC applies as a field installation and there might be issues with it per the NEC, can't tell from just that picture. 

I agree on the NFPA79 non-compliance, but we don't know what this is for, so NFPA79 might not apply to the machinery it is controlling. For example if this is for pumping or HVAC equipment, it doesn't. 

As to the reset issue, technically now even if you have to turn off the main breaker to open the door to get to the reset handles, the line terminals are still hot and that presents an arc flash hazard. So yes, you could do it, but you would have to be "suited up" to the appropriate PPE once you open that door. If it were me, I would get the thru-door handles for those MMS units that need to be reset, or add electrically operable reset options to them and provide a push button on the door to accomplish it without opening the door.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

In my experience, its not good for the equipment or just in general to have external resets for OL's for non qualified personnel.
And most of all, never have the option for them to ever open the panels as it can be dangerous and bad for equipment.
I like the idea of a lock of some kind and having the operators call on someone to reset or check the problem.
However, I could live with the remote reset as long as the panel is locked up.
This way they will bitch about how many times they had to push the reset button without the ability to change the setting.
BTW. One good reason for NEMA starters. No adjustment at all.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Are you making any money building panels?


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

John Valdes said:


> In my experience, its not good for the equipment or just in general to have external resets for OL's for non qualified personnel.
> And most of all, never have the option for them to ever open the panels as it can be dangerous and bad for equipment.
> I like the idea of a lock of some kind and having the operators call on someone to reset or check the problem.
> However, I could live with the remote reset as long as the panel is locked up.
> ...



We did work in a factory that locked the panels so that it could only be opened by the maintenance manager, and the resets were keyed pushbuttons that only the mainenance workers had.

Electricians couldn't work in a panel without going through the manager to make sure all the power and 'safety' issues were dealt with. Worker bees couldn't reset trips and allow a problem to be ignored without getting maintenance involved. Some liked it, some didn't.


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

Worked in a lot of Installations , that required the Pan to be opened to

access the guts , disco , ect .


I never gave it a thought .

Maybe Labeling ?

The room might have been entered through a locked door , Qualified People Only . 

Our Closet .





Don


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> In my experience, its not good for the equipment or just in general to have external resets for OL's for non qualified personnel.
> And most of all, never have the option for them to ever open the panels as it can be dangerous and bad for equipment.
> I like the idea of a lock of some kind and having the operators call on someone to reset or check the problem.
> However, I could live with the remote reset as long as the panel is locked up.
> ...





Agreed , John .

Flipping a CB is too darn easy ... and dangerous .



Don


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

John Valdes said:


> In my experience, its not good for the equipment or just in general to have external resets for OL's for non qualified personnel.
> And most of all, never have the option for them to ever open the panels as it can be dangerous and bad for equipment.
> I like the idea of a lock of some kind and having the operators call on someone to reset or check the problem.
> However, I could live with the remote reset as long as the panel is locked up.
> ...


One client I work with ordered a new ALB Low Voltage (480 vac) MCC and not one cubicle had an external O/L reset. This meant they had call an electrician any time the O/L's tripped to get them reset. They had ordered them with viewing windows so you could verify the isolation, and with all the indicting lights, there was no room for one. They ended up ordering new doors and reset buttons and changed every one out and added Grace Lights for isolation..


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

AK_sparky said:


> We did work in a factory that locked the panels so that it could only be opened by the maintenance manager, and the resets were keyed pushbuttons that only the mainenance workers had.
> 
> Electricians couldn't work in a panel without going through the manager to make sure all the power and 'safety' issues were dealt with. Worker bees couldn't reset trips and allow a problem to be ignored without getting maintenance involved. Some liked it, some didn't.


When I worked in the textile factory, maintenance people including mechanics had a key that worked on every single electrical and control panels lock in the facility.
It was a small lock keyed the same for everything.
When I worked the night shift, I noticed I was not being bothered to much with resets. I found out later that a couple dept foreman had a key.
I had one tell me he did not want to disturb me. 
I had no argument with him. 

The last plant I worked was in a plastic pipe extrusion plant.
Nothing was locked. But most everyone respected electrical and did their very best to stay out of anything like that.
It was much easier just to call someone, wake them up at home and wait for them to show up. I hated that mother 'F'er.
I had gone in 4 times in one night before. Good money, but a pain in the ass.


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## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

JRaef said:


> It's likely compliant if listed by an NRTL, but without that, only the NEC applies as a field installation and there might be issues with it per the NEC, can't tell from just that picture.
> 
> I agree on the NFPA79 non-compliance, but we don't know what this is for, so NFPA79 might not apply to the machinery it is controlling. For example if this is for pumping or HVAC equipment, it doesn't.
> 
> As to the reset issue, technically now even if you have to turn off the main breaker to open the door to get to the reset handles, the line terminals are still hot and that presents an arc flash hazard. So yes, you could do it, but you would have to be "suited up" to the appropriate PPE once you open that door. If it were me, I would get the thru-door handles for those MMS units that need to be reset, or add electrically operable reset options to them and provide a push button on the door to accomplish it without opening the door.


I built one of these with the through the door handles for 6 MMS and you have to have all of them perfect before you can open the door. I didn't think of that problem before I built it.


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## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

micromind said:


> No, it isn't.......
> 
> 1) It needs a door.
> 
> ...


The enclosure is UL listed but we are not a UL panel shop.


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## garfield (Jul 30, 2009)

Lep said:


> Are you making any money building panels?


I am able to get jobs for motor control because I am providing a panel. Factory Motor Control Centers are expensive. So I suppose big picture is I am making money. I try not to price the panel out separately...it's just in the total bid.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

garfield said:


> Is this panel code compliant. I wanted to propose something similar to another customer. You have to open the door to reset a trip.


Since it has a main disconnect you couldn't you turn it off and then reset the overload? Although since the line side of the lugs are hot you may still have to take the appropriate arc flash precautions like suiting up, etc.

Before you bite my head off, I know it is not practical from a production standpoint but I don't think the code or standards say it has to be efficient, just safe.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> rulz....uh yeah micro .....anyone familiar with nfpa79?
> 
> 
> i'm not.....
> ...


I'm familiar with NFPA 70, What's a nfpa79? :001_huh:


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Almost every distribution panel I've seen has a door you have to open to reset a breaker.


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## MPeterson21 (Mar 7, 2016)

From the picture alone it would be tough to know if that panel is to NEC. When it comes to panel building following manufacturers instructions is key. Most of those IEC motor starters have appropriate spacing requirements which most folks miss. The NEC now has a provision that all equipment must be listed and must be installed by manufacturer's instructions as of 2015. 

Resetting an OL is not covered by code but covered by NFPA 70e specifically. This really depends on an arc flash analysis of the equipment, feeder, overcurrent protection and clearing time. 

NFPA 79 is not enforced and is just a list of best practices for places that don't have their own guidelines. 

Our facility has much more stringent code rules and regulations as well as a strict following of 70E. We'd reject that panel. We only allow knife disconnect switches and fuses on the mains.


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