# Rotary hammerdrills for pounding grounding rods.



## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

My Hitachi got stolen. Looking back, it was heavy and loud (I do all residential work, so that can be an issue).

The Hitachi DH38YE2 1-1/2" Spline Shank Rotary Hammer produced 5.9 ft.lbs of pounding, is 16.25" long, and weighs about 14 pounds.
This thing was a beast. I went from charging like $250 for banging a rod in with a sledge hammer to feeling guilty charging $125 for (almost always) 5-10 mins. of work.
The main reason I picked up the Hitachi was the length. At the end of an 8' rod a shorter length is helpful in a basement with an 8' ceiling -and after researching, this was the shortest thing I could find.

Now I'm looking at a Milwaukee 5268-21 1-1/8" SDS-Plus Rotary Hammer Kit only produces 2.5 ft.lbs of pounding, is 12.5" long, and weighs about 7.5 pounds. That makes it small and easy to move around ...which is nice for work, but also at the end of the day carrying tools up someone's basement stairs.

SO:
1). Any idea how much ft/lb energy is really important compared to me leaning into the tool as it's 'pounding the rod' so to speak?

2). What do you have that you like?

3). Has anyone gone cordless for rod-pounding?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> I went from charging like $250 for banging a rod in with a sledge hammer to feeling guilty charging $125 for (almost always) 5-10 mins. of work.


 But you have to pay for the tool, the maintenance, and now the replacement. You spent a lot of money in order to charge less?

I demand you raise your rate back up to $250.


> Now I'm looking at a Milwaukee 5268-21 1-1/8" SDS-Plus Rotary Hammer Kit only produces 2.5 ft.lbs of pounding


 That's no where near enough. 

Mine is similar to your old one, about 5.5ftlbs, and I often get hung up and have to get out the sledgehammer to get past rocks. I think about 8ftlbs. is a happy medium between enough power and not being too big/heavy.



> 1). Any idea how much ft/lb energy is really important compared to me leaning into the tool as it's 'pounding the rod' so to speak?


 Leaning on the tool past a certain point doesn't help. It's the impacting that does the work and leaning too hard on the tool might actually bog it down and lessen the impacting.



> 3). Has anyone gone cordless for rod-pounding?


 Yes, there has been a lot of discussion about the Milwaukee M18 SDS-Max. The people who have it all seem to be very happy. But it's expensive.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I bought a cordless one.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> I bought a cordless one.


I have one like that for fence posts. It has a spring built into it and I welded a 10 pound weight to the end. Works like a champ bet it would do ground rods nice.

Cowboy


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

In my opinion, bigger and heavier is better for ground rods. You want weight on top of the rod, and blow energy is everything. I don't drive ground rods in basements so steps and ceiling height aren't an issue for me.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Is driving ground rods in a basement really a thing? Sounds so odd to me.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

We have a couple of corded rotohammer hilti's for rods when we know we're going to be in the soft stuff. 

But, like Forge Boyz said, when the going gets tough, we bring this:

https://www.hilti.com/c/CLS_POWER_T...7124/CLS_DEMOLITION_HAMMER_BREAKER_7124/r4783

Weighs 66 lbs. Has 50lbs/impact energy. That equals 116lbs of impact energy just resting on the top of the rod with no extra downward pressure.

It's only not worked once, and that was when we found bedrock. Every other time has been two minutes or less per rod. We have caliche over here, it's tough stuff.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> Is driving ground rods in a basement really a thing? Sounds so odd to me.


My dad has told me that they had to bend the 10' ground rods on a job to fit in the room in a basement. As the story goes, the Vault was getting all new equipment. Engineer spec't new 4 new ground rods, 1 in each corner of the room. They drilled a hole through the concrete, but had to bend the rods to drive them in with the 8' ceiling of the basement room.

I'd say it's not the first choice.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> My dad has told me that they had to bend the 10' ground rods on a job to fit in the room in a basement. As the story goes, the Vault was getting all new equipment. Engineer spec't new 4 new ground rods, 1 in each corner of the room. They drilled a hole through the concrete, but had to bend the rods to drive them in with the 8' ceiling of the basement room.
> 
> I'd say it's not the first choice.
> 
> Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


One word... 5 footers:devil3:


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Southeast Power said:


> One word... 5 footers:devil3:


I mean, you _could_...

Engineer spec'd 10 footers... they complied with a 1/2" bender. At the time my dad was working for someone, so he got paid by the hour lol

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

460 Delta said:


> Is driving ground rods in a basement really a thing? Sounds so odd to me.


Added a small service to a 4 family recently. Dirt floor in basement. I hung a PT 2x4 from ceiling to a foot below the dirt floor. Used that and a scrap of 2x4 to extend existing plywood backboard. Drove 2 rods in the dirt and stapled bare copper straight down the PT to the rods


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

I own the Milwaukee 1 1/8" and can tell you it's not power enough to drive rods.
I own the Milwaukee 1 3/4" SDS Max and it does the job well.


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> Is driving ground rods in a basement really a thing? Sounds so odd to me.


I live in a city, so radio-read meters on the inside of the building are normal.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> I live in a city, so radio-read meters on the inside of the building are normal.


In a few of the areas I sometimes work the houses are landlocked on all 3 sides, so I will run a GEC 50-70 feet to the back of the house to drive groundrods in the backyard. I assume that won't work for you?

Have you tried driving them on a 45 degree angle into the wall down near the floor? I have seen that done.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Ground rod thing in the basement looked to have been something done around here a long time ago. That said, if that's the only real estate you have to work with, go for it. Some of the basements here would be tough even at 45 degrees I'm not sure you could do it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> Ground rod thing in the basement looked to have been something done around here a long time ago. That said, if that's the only real estate you have to work with, go for it. Some of the basements here would be tough even at 45 degrees I'm not sure you could do it.



In one of the facebook forums I'd read a while back a crew doing this and when the helper went to go pick up lunch he popped a tire in the driveway.

He backed over the ground rod they had driven on an angle from the basement and it punctured the sidewall of the tire.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> In one of the facebook forums I'd read a while back a crew doing this and when the helper went to go pick up lunch he popped a tire in the driveway.
> 
> He backed over the ground rod they had driven on an angle from the basement and it punctured the sidewall of the tire.


I always worry that when driving a ground rod outside near the house and hammering it thru a rock, it's actually bending against the rock and going to go into the basement :surprise:


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

Side question:
If you need to drill through a concrete floor to add a ground rod (I do 99% of the time), do you use a 6" bit and pound the rod the rest of the way ...or do you use a longer bit to "cheat" and get the rod started?

How long is "too long" for the drill bit?


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> Side question:
> If you need to drill through a concrete floor to add a ground rod (I do 99% of the time), do you use a 6" bit and pound the rod the rest of the way ...or do you use a longer bit to "cheat" and get the rod started?
> 
> How long is "too long" for the drill bit?


There is no 'too long'. I would drill as deep as possible to get it started. I would imagine that you bit is only slightly bigger than the rod?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Code says that you are supposed to drive the rod, not drill a hole and insert it.

But who cares? Who will ever know?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I always worry that when driving a ground rod outside near the house and hammering it thru a rock, it's actually bending against the rock and going to go into the basement :surprise:



I've never seen that but up in Hunterdon Cty I've seen one driven outside make a u-turn and come up.


Also heard guys talking about driving one into a buried oil tank in a driveway out in Jackson and the subsequent insurance issues for the oil spill.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Code says that you are supposed to drive the rod, not drill a hole and insert it.
> 
> But who cares? Who will ever know?



Unless the inspector is there to watch you install it, they would never have a clue.

Been there for many inspections and never seen an inspector grab a rod and pull on it.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Unless the inspector is there to watch you install it, they would never have a clue.


 Exactly.


> Been there for many inspections and never seen an inspector grab a rod and pull on it.


Even if he can pull it out, it's still code compliant. I have driven rods in most of the way and then hit a rock and pulled the rod back out to try it elsewhere.


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## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

HackWork said:


> I always worry that when driving a ground rod outside near the house and hammering it thru a rock, it's actually bending against the rock and going to go into the basement :surprise:


Years ago, I had one heck of a time driving a rod. I finally got it in. I went into the basement and found three feet of the rod sticking out of the foundation. I had to cut it off and fix the hole.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

All I can say is wow... I've heard rumors of this happening but never seen it myself.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I only buy Hilti hammer drills....the other brands are cheaper but they just don't last as long....we use mainly and TE-60. They cost in the 1000-1200 range but they will outlast any other brand of hammer drill.


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> In a few of the areas I sometimes work the houses are landlocked on all 3 sides, so I will run a GEC 50-70 feet to the back of the house to drive groundrods in the backyard. I assume that won't work for you?
> 
> Have you tried driving them on a 45 degree angle into the wall down near the floor? I have seen that done.


Wait, what??? Why would I run 50-70 feet of copper to put a rod outside instead of being right there by the panel(s)? I mean, maybe in a crawl space...


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Tonedeaf said:


> I only buy Hilti hammer drills....the other brands are cheaper but they just don't last as long....we use mainly and TE-60. They cost in the 1000-1200 range but they will outlast any other brand of hammer drill.


I’ll take your word for it. For the amount I use a rotary hammer, I’ll be passing my Bosch down to my kids (not that they know how to use it).


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> Wait, what??? Why would I run 50-70 feet of copper to put a rod outside instead of being right there by the panel(s)? I mean, maybe in a crawl space...


Most basements don't have the height to put in ground rods. And it has always been "a thing" around here to not drill thru the foundation under ground because water can come thru. It is the reason why we come out of the house above ground and then LB down into the ground outside when we have to run something out of the house and underground.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Tonedeaf said:


> I only buy Hilti hammer drills....the other brands are cheaper but they just don't last as long....we use mainly and TE-60. They cost in the 1000-1200 range but they will outlast any other brand of hammer drill.


I have a TE-60 too, it was the biggest mistake I ever made. I have had to borrow my friends Bosch because my Hilti would not finish a ground rod, and his Bosch cost about 50% of my Hilti.

I think the reason why Hilti's seem to last so long is because their initial cost is so high that the owners keep sending them in for repairs instead of just buying new ones. In the end I still think it costs more, for an underpowered tool.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> thru.


It's spelled "through."


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> It's spelled "through."


You should tell that to the NY Thruway, or the No Thru Traffic signs, or the Drive Thru restaurants.


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> Ground rod thing in the basement looked to have been something done around here a long time ago. That said, if that's the only real estate you have to work with, go for it. Some of the basements here would be tough even at 45 degrees I'm not sure you could do it.


Some folks seem to think that doing this TOWARD the wall is an answer; no you have to go *parallel* so you avoid the (stone) foundation wall beneath the basement.
I usually go somewhere between 45 and 90 degrees depending on ceiling height. Technically against code to go lower than 45 degrees if starting from the floor, but my inspector is pretty cool with lower angles if I'm going through the wall and I'm already well below grade. He knows I give a **** about my customers so he trusts my judgement.



MechanicalDVR said:


> In one of the facebook forums I'd read a while back a crew doing this and when the helper went to go pick up lunch he popped a tire in the driveway.
> 
> He backed over the ground rod they had driven on an angle from the basement and it punctured the sidewall of the tire.


OMG; this is too stupid and embarrassing. NONONO: You can't run a ground rod *upward from a basement*!! Aside from this story of idiocy, water will slide down the rod into the basement -even if you foam and cement the hole you made for the rod, it will build up pressure and may eventually leak. ALWAYS have your ground rod going downward at a minimum; preferably at an angle over 45 degrees. And start below 6' if you can.

People if you are near a wall GO PARALLEL!! Tell your friends. LoL


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Most basements don't have the height to put in ground rods. And it has always been "a thing" around here to not drill thru the foundation under ground because water can come thru. It is the reason why we come out of the house above ground and then LB down into the ground outside when we have to run something out of the house and underground.


Ah, we live in different worlds.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> OMG; this is too stupid and embarrassing. NONONO: You can't run a ground rod *upward from a basement*!! Aside from this story of idiocy, water will slide down the rod into the basement -even if you foam and cement the hole you made for the rod, it will build up pressure and may eventually leak. ALWAYS have your ground rod going downward at a minimum; preferably at an angle over 45 degrees. And start below 6' if you can.
> 
> People if you are near a wall GO PARALLEL!! Tell your friends. LoL


I think you missed the point, they didn't drive it on an upward angle, it deflected off something in the ground.


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

OK, if I find a workhorse that is less than 16.25" long, I'll post for y'all. Honestly, even if I had to spend $300-$500 every 5 years, this is a huge money maker.
I'm old enough that sledge hammers were the norm even after I went independent. Maybe everyone is smarter now and I'm just an old fart who thinks he is being clever instead of pedantic...


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I think you missed the point, they didn't drive it on an upward angle, it deflected off something in the ground.


That's still insane; going downward and hitting something that bends a rod enough to go upward ...they must have started REALLY shallow ...in that case, there is nowhere to stand in the basement, so why drill in the basement when you wouldn't have the space for a meter or panel???

This sounds like either mega-stupidity or...I'm suspicious of this story. Facebook or the internet in general is full of BS.

If you can put a panel in the basement, there is virtually no way this could happen unless someone were dumb enough to start driving the rod *above* the panel. Anyone stupid enough to do this deserves to buy their helper a new tire and get sued by the homeowner for negligent stupidity.

Consequently, I prefer to think this is a BS story.*

*Not from you, but from the person who posted it.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I have heard of it happening quite a bit around here, and before the internet. Some areas the ground is just all boulders. I don't think it's a single deflection, I think it's like three deflections so you're basically drilling down one side of a bowl and up the other. 

Much more often you just get stopped dead and try another spot. 



Greg Sparkovich said:


> That's still insane; going downward and hitting something that bends a rod enough to go upward ...they must have started REALLY shallow ...in that case, there is nowhere to stand in the basement, so why drill in the basement when you wouldn't have the space for a meter or panel???
> 
> This sounds like either mega-stupidity or...I'm suspicious of this story. Facebook or the internet in general is full of BS.
> 
> ...


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

I owned many bosch, defwault and Milwaukee hammer drills over the years...*only because of their price point*.....I remember on one high rise job I went out on a Saturday and bought 4 Dewalt Hammer drills.....none work today......did they do the job....yes........they lasted maybe a year or two, if you are a heavy hammer drill user...My experience is Hilti last the longest and are faster drilling....better chipping than any comparable competitor......I have 20 year old T-55 Hammer drills still in some of my trucks. Not to mentions the drill bits from HILTI are by a far mark better than anything else out there.

If your the guy who uses a hammer gun once a a while....buy what you can afford...if you want something that gonna last +10 years of heavy use buy HILTI


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> You should tell that to the NY Thruway, or the No Thru Traffic signs, or the Drive Thru restaurants.


He has a secret wish to be Canadian. Ain’t happening. He’s all your’s.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg Sparkovich said:


> That's still insane; going downward and hitting something that bends a rod enough to go upward ...they must have started REALLY shallow ...in that case, there is nowhere to stand in the basement, so why drill in the basement when you wouldn't have the space for a meter or panel???
> 
> This sounds like either mega-stupidity or...I'm suspicious of this story. Facebook or the internet in general is full of BS.
> 
> ...



If I recall it correctly it was the helper that posted it and he wasn't happy or sounding like he was joking. The story was more about the flat than the rod. 

Journeyman was mad at the kid for cutting the tire.


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