# toner v tracer?



## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

My Ideal 61-956 (bought used on ebay 2 yrs ago) died. Local distributor offered me a Greenlee CS-8000 for @ $900. I'm reading around, can't find much on it. Lots of talk here about toners. What's the difference? And, anyone use the Greenlee CS-8000? 

My work is strictly residential, often in old houses, thick plaster/lath walls, often with old iron pipe and/or K&T. 

The Ideal was never a great tool, btw, often useless, occasionally invaluable.


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## Satch (Mar 3, 2011)

Mike, I am not sure which model we have we work but it is an Ideal and it works really great....as a circuit tracer. Which is its primary function. It was pricey though at about 800 dollars when we bought it. 

It is pretty weak as a tone generator. I would rather use a dedicated tone and probe set for tracing conductors. I have had poor luck with it trying get to follow conductors through walls. Greenlee sells them now under their name but a few years ago they bought out a long time manufacturer of tone sets. For the life of me I cannot remember the brand but they were pretty good. Seems like the models 77 or something similar. I think Greenlee just changed the name and colours. They look identical.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Satch said:


> Mike, I am not sure which model we have we work but it is an Ideal and it works really great....as a circuit tracer. Which is its primary function. It was pricey though at about 800 dollars when we bought it.
> 
> It is pretty weak as a tone generator. I would rather use a dedicated tone and probe set for tracing conductors. I have had poor luck with it trying get to follow conductors through walls. Greenlee sells them now under their name but a few years ago they bought out a long time manufacturer of tone sets. For the life of me I cannot remember the brand but they were pretty good. Seems like the models 77 or something similar. I think Greenlee just changed the name and colours. They look identical.



Progressive was bought out by Greenlee.

The KEY to effective toner & wand usage is to have ALL nearby circuits COLD.

It really is that simple.

You also must shut off all loads -- such as wall warts -- these bleed signal something crazy.

I routinely see fellas leave everything powered up -- and everything connected -- then they can't understand why the signal just bleeds off to nowhere.

They never blame their technique -- they blame the gear -- but, of course.

Tool suppliers always over-sell their stuff -- implying that it can work sweet while the circuits are humming with 60Hz power. I've never found that to be true... and wish I could have my money back.


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## Satch (Mar 3, 2011)

Progressive. Yes, that was it. As for the tracers, even with most of the other stuff turned off the Ideal is a poor performer as a tone generator. And turning off most everything in an office, dormitory, or factory is not going to happen. You'd get skinned alive by the clients.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

thx. still trying to get how a tone generator is different from a circuit tracer. only familiar with the latter.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

mikewillnot said:


> thx. still trying to get how a tone generator is different from a circuit tracer. only familiar with the latter.


The basic toner is a micro-radio station that puts out a feeble signal -- powered by (typ.) a 9VDC battery.

The associated wand is also so powered -- and has a dial that reduces or increases its sensitivity.

It's awesome -- and cheap -- when the system is totally dead -- such as doping out corn fused conductors during a new build// or total rehab -- when the old work is a tangle.

The typical circuit tracer injects a high frequency ( typ. digital ) signal on top of a live 60Hz circuit.

TASCO out of Colorado is, AFAIK, the originator of this technology. The high end circuit tracers can handle 42 circuits at a time. (TASCO)

The poor man's choice reduces this down to just one single circuit -- typically by injecting it at a receptacle at the load side to be read back at the panel.

The TASCO scheme can inject a signal at any point in the system. It's expensive enough that the boss owns it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Here is a fabulous tool for locating the exact spot where the wire is broken inside the walls.. Model: DCCS690M1. And it is battery operated to boot! Never fails to find the spot if the technician is willing to be patient and let the locating instrument do it's work.


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## mikewillnot (Apr 2, 2013)

telsa said:


> TASCO out of Colorado is, AFAIK, the originator of this technology. The high end circuit tracers can handle 42 circuits at a time. (TASCO)
> ...
> It's expensive enough that the boss owns it.


This sounds like what I've seen online called "circuit mapping." For ID'ing and labelling panels. I'm trying to find where the F... the wire goes inside the wall... and ideally, where the short/open is. 

And, sadly, I AM the boss.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

mikewillnot said:


> This sounds like what I've seen online called "circuit mapping." For ID'ing and labelling panels. I'm trying to find where the F... the wire goes inside the wall... and ideally, where the short/open is.
> 
> And, sadly, I AM the boss.


I've posted on all of this too many times.

Go into the archives.

It's all there.


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## NDC (Jan 12, 2016)

Edit: Wrong post​


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