# Overhead Wire



## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

So I'm working on a project for the house, im putting up some outside lights (Mercury Vapor lamp) to light up the yard a bit, my question is, can you run UF sunlight rated romex overhead? What is required? I've heard you need a messenger wire and that it should be grounded. So my plan is to start from the breaker panel with a 15 amp breaker, run some 14/2 regular romex to a new switch by the backdoor, and on the load side of the switch, ill run some 14/2 UF cable down the wall and outside and run it underground, then to the service entrance pole, i will run it up to a mercury vapor lamp at the top of the pole, then from there I will run some more 14/2 UF to another pole with another mercury vapor lamp and end the circuit there. Would this be code, ive rarely seen it done, and i just wanna know if I would need a messenger wire and if so, what kind of wire do I use and should it be grounded?


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## Wardenclyffe (Jan 11, 2019)

Aerial conductors to a shed


I have a client who wants to add lights and plugs to a shed. I was planning on doing an aerial drop from the house to the shed, but I was hoping to clarify a few code issues: According to 340.12, UF cable can be run as overhead cable if it's labeled sunlight resistant and installed as...




www.electriciantalk.com


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

I'm just glad to see someone still using mercury vapor.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Why nercury vapor?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

drsparky said:


> Why nercury vapor?


Maybe you can still buy the old farm lights. They were good and cheap in their day; even had a photocontrol.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

We had MV on the farm rented from the REA for 5 dollars a month, including the electricity 
In 20 years the light had dimmed as it turned green. The utility came out and changed the bulb thinking that the extra light would be appreciated. My mother called everyone up to the Managing Partner until a line man came out with an old bulb. Seems the light went through their bedroom window.

I have never used UF like that in my career. You might have an idea. 
I have always used AL triplex for service drops. It comes with a messenger and is not all that expensive. Overhead to me means your going a long distance, you allowed for that.
Smallest AL triplex is line #6. What would concern me is over the seasons your homemade messenger and support system could fail. The other good thing is there are hangers and associated product made for supporting the Triplex, something that your going to have to work out. 
Personally I would not even install MV, sucks to work under at night. We have all hung stuff for customers that we did not like. Their money their choice.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

I'd just use aircraft cable as the messenger. I've used 1/8" as a messenger before with no issues (1700lb breaking strength). For larger wiring I'd use larger cable but 14/2? You're fine with 1/8" unless you're doing a LONG run...

Messenger should be bonded. Not 100% sure of the best way to do this, it might be easiest to just use a lug and land the "tail" of the cable in it.

I'd install it with standard porcelain insulators just because they're cheap. I _think_ you could use eye bolts, but I don't know 100%.

Not sure about the USA, but up here, certain zip ties are approved for cable support, so we just zip tie the cable to the messenger.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

SWDweller said:


> Personally I would not even install MV, sucks to work under at night. We have all hung stuff for customers that we did not like. Their money their choice.


I've seen these out in rural areas - all these are for is to make sure there isn't a bear out there before taking the garbage out, and to discourage theft.


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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

you lost me at mercury vapor


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

drsparky said:


> Why nercury vapor?


I like it better, i know there are new energy saving bulbs out there, like the CFL and some LED ones, i tried them out and where I'm at in the country I like the type of light the give off


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Metersocket648 said:


> I like it better, i know there are new energy saving bulbs out there, like the CFL and some LED ones, i tried them out and where I'm at in the country I like the type of light the give off


I'm a metal halide fan myself.


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

Metersocket648 said:


> I like it better, i know there are new energy saving bulbs out there, like the CFL and some LED ones, i tried them out and where I'm at in the country I like the type of light the give off


Honestly I do too. We grew up across the street from an old Baptist church with a huge parking lot, the only lights were two farm-style mercury vapor bucket lights mounted almost low enough to touch. We spent many nights as kids playing under those lights, bouncing balls in the parking lot, building snow forts, etc. Any time I hear the hum of a MV ballast starting up, and the horrible blue-green light, it takes me right back to happier times. I was always fascinated watching them start as a kid.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Kevin said:


> I'd just use aircraft cable as the messenger. I've used 1/8" as a messenger before with no issues (1700lb breaking strength). For larger wiring I'd use larger cable but 14/2? You're fine with 1/8" unless you're doing a LONG run...


250 ft.. where can I get some #6 triplex


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

dspiffy said:


> Honestly I do too. We grew up across the street from an old Baptist church with a huge parking lot, the only lights were two farm-style mercury vapor bucket lights mounted almost low enough to touch. We spent many nights as kids playing under those lights, bouncing balls in the parking lot, building snow forts, etc. Any time I hear the hum of a MV ballast starting up, and the horrible blue-green light, it takes me right back to happier times. I was always fascinated watching them start as a kid.


Exactly, thats the biggest reason too


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

250 ft is a looong run. Your droop will be 4-6 ft, and even more in the summer.
I would use triplex rather than a homemade setup. 
Most power companies set triplex poles 100' apart and the high voltage 250' apart


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Metersocket648 said:


> 250 ft.. where can I get some #6 triplex


You should be able to order it from any electrical supply house... But 250' run, with no poles in the middle of the span??? You might need a triplex with a larger ACSR neutral to handle that, with the wind, and ice in the winter. There is a breaking strength of the ACSR that must be thought of during this process. 

Priority wire 6awg triplex with full size ACSR neutral has a breaking strength of 1,190lbs. That is not that much... Next size up is #4 ACSR with a breaking strength of 1,860lbs.

I'm not doing the calculations for the wind load and ice load, someone else can do that.

Your anchor points will need to be pretty strong for that span...


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## Viggmundir (Sep 13, 2019)

Canadian code limits neutral supported cable (triplex) to a max span of 38m (roughly 125ft).


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Kevin said:


> You should be able to order it from any electrical supply house... But 250' run, with no poles in the middle of the span??? You might need a triplex with a larger ACSR neutral to handle that, with the wind, and ice in the winter. There is a breaking strength of the ACSR that must be thought of during this process.
> 
> Priority wire 6awg triplex with full size ACSR neutral has a breaking strength of 1,190lbs. That is not that much... Next size up is #4 ACSR with a breaking strength of 1,860lbs.
> 
> ...


It has a center pole, im going with triplex rather than a homemade set up (i even got some suspension insulators I could use on the ends of the triplex😜 got them from the PoCo and they are the polymer disc type) and can i splice the triplex to the lamp wires in the open with split bolts and tape? Or would I need a box? The only place I have a box is at the top of the service entrance pole and it hoses the connection for the triplex to UF wire and from that box there is 3 wires to connect. The lamp wires, the triplex from the weather head and the incoming UF cable, idk if i should use metal boxes or weatherproof? Its a metal weatherhead, and ive seen them use metal j boxes up on poles.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

Speaking of long runs, I was referred to someone who owns a property not far from my camp who was having trouble with the electric service. So I call him one day while I'm out there and agree to stop by. I pull up to this place and immediately noticed a fuse box on a pole. One leg had a blown fuse. From the first pole the service fed what used to be a single wide trailer (now a house), and a garage. Then, six more poles down back to a kit barn, with each pole tapped to feed flood lamps for a stone road. The kit barn was easily 7-800' from the road. There were _no transformers anywhere. _The poles had to be at the end of their expected life span. Conductors appeared ok, but I chose life and didn't get up there to check them out. I asked the guy about who owned the property before him and he said "They were a handful of retired electricians from Canada and this was their vacation property. Everything you see here was left over material from jobs over the years".

...

I never found out what he ended up doing about it. It wasn't a job for one man that's for sure. Sorry kinda long but thought I'd share that one.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

ohm it hertz said:


> Speaking of long runs, I was referred to someone who owns a property not far from my camp who was having trouble with the electric service. So I call him one day while I'm out there and agree to stop by. I pull up to this place and immediately noticed a fuse box on a pole. One leg had a blown fuse. From the first pole the service fed what used to be a single wide trailer (now a house), and a garage. Then, six more poles down back to a kit barn, with each pole tapped to feed flood lamps for a stone road. The kit barn was easily 7-800' from the road. There were _no transformers anywhere. _The poles had to be at the end of their expected life span. Conductors appeared ok, but I chose life and didn't get up there to check them out. I asked the guy about who owned the property before him and he said "They were a handful of retired electricians from Canada and this was their vacation property. Everything you see here was left over material from jobs over the years".
> 
> ...
> 
> I never found out what he ended up doing about it. It wasn't a job for one man that's for sure. Sorry kinda long but thought I'd share that one.


Did the splice the triplex to the lamp wires in the open? Or in a box?


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

It was all in the open with what looked like split bolts wrapped in a lot of friggin tape.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

ohm it hertz said:


> It was all in the open with what looked like split bolts wrapped in a lot of friggin tape.


Is that code legal or no? I want to do something like that.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Split bolts and tape were the choice way back when. Now, they use Burndy YH series of crimps,( you need a tool like the MD6)
Splices are open, no JBs.
Just make sure you spread out the conductors so the splices have space around them.

If I were to do this, I would cut the triplex at each pole, and tie off each cable. Makes it easier to make your splices and secures the triplex at every pole
At your feed end, think of a service entrance, only feeding backwards into the line. same kind of connections


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## Brianrayl (Oct 4, 2013)

Metersocket648 said:


> So I'm working on a project for the house, im putting up some outside lights (Mercury Vapor lamp) to light up the yard a bit, my question is, can you run UF sunlight rated romex overhead? What is required? I've heard you need a messenger wire and that it should be grounded. So my plan is to start from the breaker panel with a 15 amp breaker, run some 14/2 regular romex to a new switch by the backdoor, and on the load side of the switch, ill run some 14/2 UF cable down the wall and outside and run it underground, then to the service entrance pole, i will run it up to a mercury vapor lamp at the top of the pole, then from there I will run some more 14/2 UF to another pole with another mercury vapor lamp and end the circuit there. Would this be code, ive rarely seen it done, and i just wanna know if I would need a messenger wire and if so, what kind of wire do I use and should it be grounded?


Have you heard of LED's? This is too funny.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Brianrayl said:


> Have you heard of LED's? This is too funny.


I dont like leds the same as I like the ambient light from a mercury vapor lamp


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