# pass the test rate



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The tests have a lot of questions that wouldn't be used in the real world, and often have time constraints which limit how much time you can spend on calculations, when in real life you would not have those time limits.

They do this to keep the riff-raff out, which is a good thing.

Any semi-decent electrician can pass the test if they study hard enough.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

I agree about the riffraff. We do that with cold weather LOL. The other trades are at about 60% pass rates in MN so it makes me wonder why.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> The tests have a lot of questions that wouldn't be used in the real world, and often have time constraints which limit how much time you can spend on calculations, when in real life you would not have those time limits.
> 
> They do this to keep the riff-raff out, which is a good thing.
> 
> Any semi-decent electrician can pass the test if they study hard enough.


Most of the people on here over 35 or so could not pass the test anymore.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Somebody could make a killing developing a course that teaches them how to pass that test.


What would it be worth on a per person basis?


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> Most of the people on here over 35 or so could not pass the test anymore.


Totally agree. I would like to try but I think I am chicken


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

MikeFL said:


> Somebody could make a killing developing a course that teaches them how to pass that test.
> 
> 
> What would it be worth on a per person basis?


There are all sorts of test prep classes. Some of them offer retakes if you do not pass. Mike Holt has a set of dvds that on of my apprentices tried. (did not work). I really think a lot of it is not proper prep. But I still beg the question of what other states are doing and why is the electrical so low compared to the other trades pass rate. I know that MN is not just a bunch of dumb apprentices.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

tmessner said:


> It is frustrating as an employer to not be able to pay these men jw wages as they are capable of and already are doing it in a lot of cases.


You can't pay them what you want as to maximum?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Most of the people on here over 35 or so could not pass the test anymore.


Why do you say that?

Older people should have more wisdom and knowledge, not less.

I know that I would be able to pass the test with a higher score today then when I did it seven years ago. And I definitely would do better today than 20 years ago.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

tmessner said:


> There are all sorts of test prep classes. Some of them offer retakes if you do not pass. Mike Holt has a set of dvds that on of my apprentices tried. (did not work). I really think a lot of it is not proper prep. But I still beg the question of what other states are doing and why is the electrical so low compared to the other trades pass rate. I know that MN is not just a bunch of dumb apprentices.


We don’t have a journeyman test, just a contractor license. I don’t know if this is the definite truth, but we have always heard over the years that the pass rate for that test is 20%. I am not sure how that compares to the other trades.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

daveEM said:


> You can't pay them what you want as to maximum?


I need to leave room for a good raise when they get a license and also as an incentive to get the license.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Years ago it was explained to me, that on a Block & Associates test, the wrong answers mirrored how far along you got on the calcs. So, you really had to know your stuff. Pass rate at the time was 14% or 15% (early 90s).
Does MN have apprenticeships?


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

yes, a 4 year apprenticeship with credit for accredited schooling.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

You or your company could look at the test & test prep materials, then, come up with quizzes & problems for them to answer say once a week. You then can help them. Break it up into blocks & also work on test taking skills along the way.
Maybe get some practice tests.
Do this over 6-12 months.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

We offered to pay for 2 test prep courses a few years ago. No takers. You can lead a horse to water, you cannot make them drink.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> Older people should have more wisdom and knowledge, not less.
> 
> I know that I would be able to pass the test with a higher score today then when I did it seven years ago. And I definitely would do better today than 20 years ago.


I haven't done a voltage drop or conduit fill in years. Between apps and slide rules no way I pass it without those. 
That old Sq-D slide gets used every single day.


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

I probably should have opened 2 posts. One about the test pass rate and a separate one about motivating apprentices to take the test.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> I haven't done a voltage drop or conduit fill in years. Between apps and slide rules no way I pass it without those.
> That old Sq-D slide gets used every single day.


Me either. I use apps for everything 😁

But it’s not like I did a lot of that stuff when I took the test or even back in my apprenticeship. I can re-learn that stuff today during the study courses just as quickly as back then. I have a better overall understanding of everything now than I did back then as well.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

When I got mine I know my class got way higher than 20-30%. Our instructor asked us to let him know after we took the test to call him. He wanted to know the % of the guys that passed. To gauge the effectiveness of the training.

We started that class with 30 or so people and it got whittled down long before test time. We all tested on the same day as well. Journeyman and Masters.
This was back in the old Block and Associate days. I had to travel over 100 miles that morning. Nervous as hell.

It was over 50% pass for the guys that hung in there for all 12 weeks of classes.
This was what the instructor told me. I did run into a couple guys I studied with and they passed as well. They also knew other guys in our class that passed as well that very same day.

I would not want to take it again. I'm not sure if I would pass.
My plant paid for my prep class and I bought the books. So everyone knew when I was testing and I was extremely worried about passing, especially since they helped me take the test. I did not want to be embarrassed is really what I mean.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

tmessner said:


> I probably should have opened 2 posts. One about the test pass rate and a separate one about motivating apprentices to take the test.


 Money is the best motivator. Create a bigger gap between being unlicensed and licensed. 

The second best motivator is requiring the license in a certain period of time. If they can't obtain it, then get someone qualified who can.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

MikeFL said:


> Somebody could make a killing developing a course that teaches them how to pass that test.
> What would it be worth on a per person basis?


Tom Henry's message "You are already an electrician. This class is not to teach you how to become an electrician. This class is to help and show you how to pass the test. Nothing more. Follow my instruction and you will pass on the first try". He was right.

I did not study each day as he said to do. But I hit the studying very hard on the weekends. It worked. I am certain some luck was involved as well.
I went back and made quite a few educated guesses on several questions. I did not leave one single question unanswered.
Your guys need to know these things if they want to pass.



tmessner said:


> I probably should have opened 2 posts. One about the test pass rate and a separate one about motivating apprentices to take the test.


If you pay for the training or do it in house, it may motivate the guys like it did me.
I did not want to fail when I knew everyone at work would know if I passed or failed. I would have been quite embarrassed had I not passed.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> *Money is the best motivator.* Create a bigger gap between being unlicensed and licensed.
> 
> The second best motivator is requiring the license in a certain period of time. If they can obtain it, then get someone qualified who can.


:thumbup:

Amen!


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

MikeFL said:


> Somebody could make a killing developing a course that teaches them how to pass that test.
> 
> 
> What would it be worth on a per person basis?


about $2,500 in NYC


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## eric626 (Jan 5, 2015)

I paid $500 for a test prep class. It was money well spend because I definitely wouldn't have passed without it.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

tmessner said:


> I probably should have opened 2 posts. One about the test pass rate and a separate one about motivating apprentices to take the test.


I am told that the pass rate for apprentices is improving in Ontario while the pass rate for Masters is dropping. I do not have a stat for that, that is just "word on the street".

In Ontario the motivation to pass the test is that you cannot be a "lifelong" apprentice. We have four "Classes" of people; Apprentice, Tradesperson, Journeyperson Candidate and Journeyperson.

I don't remember the specifics, but it is something like you can only be an Apprentice for 6 years I think and Journeyperson Candidate for one year. The Journeyperson Candidate is that "No man's Land" between completing your apprenticeship and passing your Journeyperson exam (which we call the Certificate of Qualification (CofQ)).

Cheers
John


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## tmessner (Apr 1, 2013)

We offered to pay for test prep classes. Nobody took us up on it. After 4 years we dropped the offer. As for requiring a license in a certain time frame, in rural America if you have good people you better keep them because the replacements are not just "down the street". In MN the unemployment is around 2% I think. Basically all able bodies are working.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> I am told that the pass rate for apprentices is improving in Ontario while the pass rate for Masters is dropping. I do not have a stat for that, that is just "word on the street".
> 
> In Ontario the motivation to pass the test is that you cannot be a "lifelong" apprentice. We have four "Classes" of people; Apprentice, Tradesperson, Journeyperson Candidate and Journeyperson.
> 
> ...


Last I heard the pass rate is 50% on your first try. Completions have increased due to the “journey person candidate” one year thing because after that year is up, you are not allowed to work.

As for the 6 year apprenticeship, that is not enforced my the ministry. If you never go to the ministry to apply to write the C of Q, you will not become a JPC and you can stay an apprentice forever. Our local enforces such a rule but we still get the odd “master apprentice” sneak through with over 10 years in the trade.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I thought as soon as you completed your schooling, the records put you in the Journeyperson Candidate Classification automatically and if you are "short hours" the MCTU would adjust your drop dead date with OCOT...

I am not sure how all the voodoo works up there so I could be totally off base.

Cheers
John


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> I thought as soon as you completed your schooling, the records put you in the Journeyperson Candidate Classification automatically and if you are "short hours" the MCTU would adjust your drop dead date with OCOT...
> 
> I am not sure how all the voodoo works up there so I could be totally off base.
> 
> ...



You only become a JPC when you go into the ministry with proof of hours, proof of school,the training standards book 70% filled out with all the signatures required and pay the fee to write the C of Q. At that point your apprenticeship is labelled on OCOT as complete and you become a “journey person candidate”


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## EtrnlFlux (Aug 8, 2018)

*Admin Test*

Recently completed my 01 Administration test. My only goal was to pass at least one section per trip as I've been told that the test was going to be difficult.

Paid for a prep course, which was a bit of help. Their NEC question packet was the best help, as it had over 400 questions. Load calculations given were pretty busted, errors, old code questions and just overall sloppy. Ended up just writing up my own load calculations paper. (Worked great as it really got it stuck in my head of all the "rules")

First round NEC pass / fail / fail
Second round RCW pass / fail
Third round Pass calcs

Guess it paid off for me. Granted it cost more money to retake, but trying to cram anything and everything in your head, when you have no clue what kind of jacked up question they are going to ask you. Just seemed easier that way.

If anyone wants the load calcs I wrote up, your free to ask. Happy to share it if it is of any help.


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