# Reducing Electric Bills



## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

Have a customer that has a 4500 sq/ft house. $500 electric bills. They want to reduce the bill as much as possible. I sold them all retrofit LED's for their hi-hats. They will be ordering all energy star appliances.

What else is left besides solar ? ?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Use less electricity?


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## markbrady (Jun 2, 2014)

Cheap way to save more money is to plug all computers and tv's into strip outlets that can shut off as modern tv's are in a sleep mode and use power even when off. The more expensive and beneficial to electrician method:laughing: is to install switched outlets for tv and computer outlets in case they are too lazy to bend over to shut off the strips or don't like them in the open

Upgrade A/C to more efficient model if appropriate


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Kill switches for the parasitic drain of the infamous standby lights. That's huge. You can probably get RF controllers for the power strips, or something along those lines. My electric bill has dropped substantially since I started turning off the power strips.

Temp controlled attic fans are also energy savers for the summer. 

Occupancy sensors for the bathrooms and spare rooms.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

I never realized about the parasitic drain of computers. How much do you save every month ?


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

Electric heat, electric AC, electric water heater?

Adjust temperature settings. 

Chronstats to turn off HVAC during times they are out of the house.

Stretch the season of no HVAC.

Fans.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Come on, do the math, a TV or Sat receiver pull less than .1 watts, (its so small its hard to read) in standby mode. Add 10 more appliances to get a full watt. 1 watt for a year is about 9 kwh =$1.00. Thats not the savings you are looking for. 
Opening the fridge door looking for a snack uses more power per year.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

4500 sqft and they are worried about their bill?? Should have thought of that earlier. 
Shut off the hot tub and turn down the heat.


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## markbrady (Jun 2, 2014)

drsparky said:


> Come on, do the math, a TV or Sat receiver pull less than .1 watts, (its so small its hard to read) in standby mode. Add 10 more appliances to get a full watt. 1 watt for a year is about 9 kwh =$1.00. Thats not the savings you are looking for.
> Opening the fridge door looking for a snack uses more power per year.


One appliance by itself uses very little BUT the government has studied it and on average their are 40 things in the American home that use standby power and that amounts to about 10% of your annual bill. 

Here is the study and it has list of appliances and what they use and has charts etc 
http://standby.lbl.gov/standby.html 

Now excuse me while I go get a snack :laughing:


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## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

Spark Master said:


> I never realized about the parasitic drain of computers. How much do you save every month ?


Through persistent monitoring of power strips, lights in unoccupied rooms, and controlling the thermostat I've managed to cut about $75 a month. And I always have the fridge open.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

i do offsetting.

i've trained my kids to see in the dark whilst the old fridge in the garage chugs away.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Move to a state with lower electric rates. NY is among the most expensive in the country.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

Three words..... Black Hawk powerhouse.:laughing::laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Two letters- P V I produce power, more than I consume.


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> Two letters- P V I produce power, more than I consume.


Ummm, you live in Hawaii. I wouldn't expect anything else. I don't think you would see the same results in New York.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

It's all relative. The instant you and I utilize LED's, smart meters and thermostats, the utility will request rate hikes to recoup the income they lost.

Just like congress is talking about initiating mileage taxes on electric cars. You save the money buying an electric car and poof, new taxes are imposed to recoup monies lost on gas taxes.

You just can't win.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Well, instead of $500/month, what is the kWH usage per month?

For a 4500 Sq Ft home, $500/month does not sound too far out of line assuming they are not heating with gas.

What is the kWH charge where your customer lives? 

Are there a lot of air leaks?

Is the insulation too little in the attic? 

How long has the customer lived in this home? Has the bill jumped or is this normal?

What electrical using equipment do they have?


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

LARMGUY said:


> It's all relative. The instant you and I utilize LED's, smart meters and thermostats, the utility will request rate hikes to recoup the income they lost.
> 
> Just like congress is talking about initiating mileage taxes on electric cars. You save the money buying an electric car and poof, new taxes are imposed to recoup monies lost on gas taxes.
> 
> You just can't win.


GA just passed a transportation bill that removes the $5000 credit for electric cars, and added a $200 per year fee for such cars.

They also removed the sales tax on fuel and changed to a flat .26 per gallon.

I remember our EMC giving away cfl's when they came out, then asked for a rated hike a year later!


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

Sounds like the E85 corn-ethanol BS. I documented, my fuel mileage drops 25%, but the E85 is only 10% cheaper !!!


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

How about some timers and motion detectors. Adding more attic insulation will help too.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

I new this had come up before. Here is my rant from 6 years ago when I actually took measurements after a visiting family member berated me for not unplugging a cell phone charger because something she read in the paper. http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/vampire-power-consumption-6979/
One of the latest examples of sloppy journalism is vampire power consumption. Apparently my TV is ruining the environment due to it consuming massive amounts of power on standby. I must unplug my cell phone charger, TV, DVD player when I am not using it. If I don't I will melt the ice caps and destroy the world.
I did some quick measurements and the math. My cell phone charger uses 54 micro amps while charging and 5 micro amps plugged in without the phone. If I leave my cell charger plugged in it will take 24 years for it to use one penny. My 50” plasma consumes 1.43 cents on standby in 30 days. My Wii and DVD player each use 1.21 cents a month. If you were so thoughtless to leave one million cell chargers plugged in it would cost $35.85 on your monthly electric bill.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

Micro amps or milli amps ?


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

Run the meter upside down 2 weeks of the month:thumbsup:


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## Dtown416 (May 4, 2015)

honestly, you got to look at their life style. if you reduce all lights to LED, you saved them a lot as it is, from 20-100 watts to 3-5 watts, but the sq footage isn't the issue from all this, do they have a hot tub, heated pool, other heavy appliances, before you go ahead, do a calculation and see what you get


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Unplugging your phone charger is like trying to bail the Titanic with a tablespoon.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Use red electric tape and wrap all the devices to stop electrons from leaking out.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Also are they using electric water heat?

How about insulation, weatherstripping and better windows?


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## nbb (Jul 12, 2014)

Spark Master said:


> Sounds like the E85 corn-ethanol BS. I documented, my fuel mileage drops 25%, but the E85 is only 10% cheaper !!!


E85 has less energy per volume than E10. Diesel has higher energy per volume than E10, and is more expensive. I remember when diesel was the same price or cheaper than regular gasoline. 

Also, the "cheapness" of E85 is actually subsidized by tax payers. We can thank lobbyists for that.

By the way, you did not answer any of the questions asked about this situation. Why?



drsparky said:


> I new this had come up before. Here is my rant from 6 years ago when I actually took measurements after a visiting family member berated me for not unplugging a cell phone charger because something she read in the paper. http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/vampire-power-consumption-6979/
> One of the latest examples of sloppy journalism is vampire power consumption. Apparently my TV is ruining the environment due to it consuming massive amounts of power on standby. I must unplug my cell phone charger, TV, DVD player when I am not using it. If I don't I will melt the ice caps and destroy the world.
> I did some quick measurements and the math. My cell phone charger uses 54 micro amps while charging and 5 micro amps plugged in without the phone. If I leave my cell charger plugged in it will take 24 years for it to use one penny. My 50” plasma consumes 1.43 cents on standby in 30 days. My Wii and DVD player each use 1.21 cents a month. If you were so thoughtless to leave one million cell chargers plugged in it would cost $35.85 on your monthly electric bill.


Thank you for this post. I was a bit frightened when I saw so many posts really thinking an average household had anything to worry about with idle power draw. Granted, 4500 square feet is not an average home, but don't most yuppies only use like 4 rooms and the rest is just keeping up with the Jones's?



markbrady said:


> One appliance by itself uses very little BUT the government has studied it and on average their are 40 things in the American home that use standby power and that amounts to about 10% of your annual bill.
> 
> Here is the study and it has list of appliances and what they use and has charts etc
> http://standby.lbl.gov/standby.html
> ...


10% is absolute bull****, and I am pretty sure even a gas-fired home will not waste that percentage of power. Sure, if we took the cumulative of that list it is possible, but let's face it, the average home does not have a VCR.

If the home has a heat pump or electric water heater, then for sure that 10% stat is absolute complete bull. Even if it was 100% LED lit.


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## Darenger361 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm going to stock up on red tape before it's over taxed.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

SparksMcGee said:


> I have pretty detailed logs of my home's power consumption if anyone cares to see... but I'm an energy hog and my house idles at about 0.5kwh through the night. That's like 4cents per hour.
> 
> I use one of these units below (http://rainforestautomation.com/rfa-z109-eagle/)and also have it tied into Bidgely (https://www.bidgely.com/):
> 
> ...


Those look interesting. If I had a smart meter I might be interested in the rainforest automation one. What is the cost on that?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Spark Master said:


> Have a customer that has a 4500 sq/ft house. $500 electric bills. They want to reduce the bill as much as possible. I sold them all retrofit LED's for their hi-hats. They will be ordering all energy star appliances.
> 
> What else is left besides solar ? ?


Insulation and new doors and windows.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

SparksMcGee said:


> They're $100.. I picked one up when BC Hydro was giving a rebate on the purchase.. think it was like $30 off. After using it, I'd even buy one at regular price, it's a nice addition. Gives usage data down to the second.
> 
> And pumping the data into Bidgely, they can automatically detect appliances based on their startup, shutdown and run signatures of consumption.


 
Sounds good.....reasonable pricing. They are doing smart meters in my service area but haven't gotten to my exact neck o' the woods yet. Looks like I will be purchasing one when they finally get to me.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

SparksMcGee said:


> Interesting thing is even though I have 100A service.. I have never seen my usage go above 8.12kW or ~33.8 amps. That must have been dryer + oven + vacuum + pool pump + minor loads.
> 
> I have a threshold of 8kW set, so when usage goes above that, it sends me a notification alert on my iPhone.


Why would you care. Are you going to call home and tell her to quit cooking or cleaning?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

SparksMcGee said:


> Who's her, my wife?
> 
> My wife is at work making the big money! That 8kw is me sitting at home on ET.com, while baking some cookies, the kids are vacuuming the floor and got some clothes drying for when the wifey gets home.


If that's the case why do you need the notification...you're the culprit running up the bills.:thumbsup:


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