# Conduit Bending Do's & Dont's



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Get yourself a "no-dog' level


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

KRZCLV said:


> In are trade shop we a dedicated space for practicing conduit bending, equipped with Benfield, Greenlee benders, Hickeys and a very expensive hydraulic bender, lately I've been practicing on my parallel offsets using half inch thin wall, there good but not perfect, also every time we bend, pipe is dropping, benders dropping, dog legs up the ass we waste about 15 sticks a day, would like ET to share some of there tips n tricks n do's n don'ts.
> 
> Peace n Love -KRZCLV


Parallel offsets with the same size conduit is one thing. Mixing it up with multipul sizes of conduits is another. The conduit is cheap compared to the cost of labor to do the bending. If you spend 10 minutes on a bend(measuring, bending and installing) and your charging $75/hr. That stick of 1/2" is $12.50 in labor and only $2.50 in materials.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Always remember 1.41 for 45deg offsets.


----------



## KRZCLV (Feb 19, 2016)

I've always used 1.4 for 45deg offsets, does using 1.41 make a difference


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

KRZCLV said:


> I've always used 1.4 for 45deg offsets, does using 1.41 make a difference



Of course it does if you want to be exact.


----------



## KRZCLV (Feb 19, 2016)

Mech Diver said:


> Of course it does if you want to be exact.


Noted


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Mech Diver said:


> Of course it does if you want to be exact.


I doubt anyone can measure .01 of an inch with a tape measure. Or .06 of an inch on a 6 in offset(1/16") accurately over and over.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

backstay said:


> I doubt anyone can measure .01 of an inch with a tape measure. Or .06 of an inch on a 6 in offset(1/16") accurately over and over.


I seemed to have forgotten how many little girls are on the forum.


----------



## fisstech (Feb 2, 2013)

when you are doing an off set, stick a coupling on the end of the pipe. make your first bend with the set-screw facing up, and make your second bend with the set-screw facing down. No more dog legs.

90's with a kick solve a lot of problems.

always ream your pipe the instant you cut it, always, always always. even if you know you may have to cut it again. just make it a habit. if the pipe run you installed shorts out cause you didn't ream your pipe you're gonna get chewed out hard. TRUST ME.

take your time to make sure your first bend is perfect before you move onto the second one.

30 degree offsets are nice cause it's always X2 ... if you have a 4 inch offset, you make your marks 8 inches apart. easy.


----------



## LuckyLuke (Jun 1, 2015)

Mech Diver said:


> I seemed to have forgotten how many little girls are on the forum.


Ah you are one of those guys.....we are all really impressed :jester:


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LuckyLuke said:


> Ah you are one of those guys.....we are all really impressed :jester:



Well when MEN seem to get their panties in a knot over nothing. Yeah I'm one of those guys that will call you on it.


----------



## LuckyLuke (Jun 1, 2015)

Mech Diver said:


> Well when MEN seem to get there panties in a knot over nothing. Yeah I'm one of those guys that will call you on it.


<insert slow clap here>


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Buy a good bending app for your phone.

I use Conduit Bender Elite. Does near and far offsets, near and far rolling offsets, three & four-bend saddles, parallel bends, 90° stubs, kicked 90°s, segmented, back-to-back, and rectangle, square & round obstruction inside corner bends.

You punch in your measurements and angles, and not only does it tell you where to put your marks, but shows you which way to bend the pipe.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LuckyLuke said:


> <insert slow clap here>




Is that a Canadian clap, most stuff is slow up there isn't it ?


----------



## fisstech (Feb 2, 2013)

pipe bending apps are great. some of them come with box and pipe fill tables as well ... save a lot of time out in the field.


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Have to agree about bending apps. I learned to bend conduit mostly by myself using iBend Pipe and some related googling. Nobody was there to teach me. 

In my opinion if you can get away with 22 degree offsets without making the whole thing ridiculous and huge, it's a better way to go. Always think about what it'll be like to pull wire through whatever you've bent and installed. Oversize where practical and regularly install pull points. Don't be afraid to get creative if the situation requires it. On some runs I've bent three 30s instead of a single 90 which made pulling much easier and faster.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

If your dog legging 1/2" TW all the time, is it a shop bender that was just laying around?
If so the shoe might be bent slightly. 
Years ago we had one in the back of the shop just for the fun of watching people pull their hair out.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Never, never, NEVER lean your bender against the wall with the head up. ALWAYS place the head on the floor and use the handle to lean against the wall.

Otherwise, it can fall over and damage the bender head in the process. You may not SEE the damage, but it can make you go insane once it gets bent out of shape ever so slightly.


----------



## nbb (Jul 12, 2014)

Mech Diver said:


> Is that a Canadian clap, most stuff is slow up there isn't it ?


Says the guy making high school caliber menstruation jokes. Apologies if that is your highest level of education, I just thought it apropos to point out decimating speed is not exactly what you are packing.

As for the OP, lots of practice and be sure to realize it won't come out perfect every time. I have been harassed at many jobs by people like Mech Driver, so the next point is to realize there are lots of douche bags in the construction industry. I have given up on figuring out what makes them so angry, just try to get through my day and hope to stay busy and avoid the prima donna types. They run rampant in my experience.


----------



## theJcK (Aug 7, 2013)

"Pretty pipe is harder to pull.."


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I have heard this two ways
High work isn't eye work. Meaning no one can see it. 
High work is eye work. Meaning get it close by eye. 

You pipe it you pull it. 

45's under 12" use 1.4
45's over 12" use 1.41
45's parallel use .41
30's parallel use .25


----------



## nbb (Jul 12, 2014)

cabletie said:


> I have heard this two ways
> High work isn't eye work. Meaning no one can see it.
> High work is eye work. Meaning get it close by eye.
> 
> ...


I've definitely been at the end of you pipe it you pull it, and use 30° offsets for this reason.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

It's a RARE thing to see 45 offsets.

Most outfits 'prohibit' them... the foreman wants to see nothing beyond 30 degrees.

If the 'look' is acceptable, lesser bends ( 22.5 or 10 degrees ) are preferred.

&&&&&

BTW, 1/2 EMT is the worst material for training. It's too easy.

I always train noobs with 3/4" EMT. It's not spaghetti. 

&&&&&&&

Always check the concrete slab for level. If it really is level then you can swing Benfield and Greenlee benders to straight vertical and know that you've got your 30 degrees.

( Slap your Kleins level to the vertical handle. )

To bend with speed is to bend by eye... it's the only way to go for work high up on a scissor lift.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Lay your dog leg "down" and have someone stand on it. Then pick up on the other end of the conduit to tweak it straight.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Lay your dog leg "down" and have someone stand on it. Then pick up on the other end of the conduit to tweak it straight.


I will use a man lift to square up a dog leg or whatever else is in sight. 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Always do your bending on a level surface, even a "liner" (bubble touching the line on the vial) will throw you off. Check your floor in multiple directions, it may look level, but most floors aren't. Use floor tiles, or a wall to check 90's. Even us "old timers" have to tweak things occasionally, but don't put it back in the bender, put it on the floor and stand on the tail, put your level on the stub, and adjust accordingly. 30 degree off-sets are the easiest to calculate, just double the measured off-set for your between bend marks, and use that "no-dog". And, don't use the term "level" for vertical runs, use "plumb". (only noobies use "level" for "plumb"). Happy bending.


----------



## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

90 kicks and rolling offsets are your best friend and a time saver.


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

mpcxl said:


> 90 kicks and rolling offsets are your best friend and a time saver.


Or laughed at on some jobs... I've known quite a few guys that can't stand rolling offsets or kicks... Each has their place, if it follows piping or structural steel, but some installs can be abused...

Personally I'm not a fan of more than 3 90s in a run between pull boxes or fittings... Don't add up all the degrees to get to your total in a run.. IE. 3 - 30 degree offsets adds up to 180 degrees.. I'd count it as 3 - 90s, due to the friction with a fish tape... 

Plan and double check your runs, so that you don't pipe yourself into a corner (with rigid).. Or run across an duct opening, plumbing chase, etc..

Match up your couplings, straps and fitting covers... Makes it look like you put some pride in it...

Don't throw out your measurement notes, til you're sure you aren't coming back to that site, or area of that site.. If you need to add a conduit, they can be handy...

Oversize is better... We did a wire pull and it came to a sudden stop in the middle... Well not quite the middle.. When we walked the run to see what happened, we saw where a guy spun an RE65 into a coupling and ran 18" of conduit to a T... That was a bit of a fight to get it through...

If you're running rigid, think about where to use a union... And don't be afraid to use one in the right spot... Saw a motor the other day that someone spun a GUAT onto the threaded fitting on the motor, a solenoid in one other opening, and a cable connector into the 3rd opening..  How in the world do you change the motor, without undoing the cable, solenoid and fuel gas to it? All to save a 1" union... Or to spin a close nipple into a motor box, then a condulet Tee, with a composite teck cable in the bottom and the HOA out the 3rd opening.. Again - way to save the union....

Adequately support your rack and allow for some future...


----------



## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

"Foot pressure is paramount"


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

3DDesign said:


> "Foot pressure is paramount"



Unless you're bending 1¼ with a hand bender. Then it helps to weigh 300 lbs. and put half that on the bender handle. :whistling2:


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Unless you're bending 1¼ with a hand bender. Then it helps to weigh 300 lbs. and put half that on the bender handle. :whistling2:


...and make sure someone foots the tail of the pipe,  happened 2 me on waxed floor and landed on my tail


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

360max said:


> ...and make sure someone foots the tail of the pipe,  happened 2 me on waxed floor and landed on my tail



Keep an eye out for a Solon 1¼" bender. They ratchet instead of using your weight. They're a dream for bending 1¼".

Sad new is, they're not made any more. So used is your best option. They pop up on ebay on occasion.


----------



## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Keep an eye out for a Solon 1¼" bender. They ratchet instead of using your weight. They're a dream for bending 1¼".
> 
> Sad new is, they're not made any more. So used is your best option. They pop up on ebay on occasion.




Darn , 480 , I have never seen one ...cool .

A Solon Bender 1 1/4 Ratchet Bender

Now I swere i have seen a 1 1/2 inch hand bender with Kicker pedal , at the shop in my first year. NOT 1 1/4 as usual ...

Any one else seen one 1 1/2 hand bender ?


Don


----------



## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Unless you're bending 1¼ with a hand bender. Then it helps to weigh 300 lbs. and put half that on the bender handle. :whistling2:




I am PIPE MAN ....


(1) Place pipe so it butts the Wall ... very important , pipe will not run then

(2) Place hand or bend near adjacent wall , running with you , ballance off that WALL

(3) Now bend like all heck with max pressure on foot kicker pedal and balance off Wall.

Even a small guy will best the pro's ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic#/media/File:Flag_of_Key_West,_Florida.svg



Retired 
Buddha 
Don
Conch Republic
Key West


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)




----------



## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

nbb said:


> Says the guy making high school caliber menstruation jokes. Apologies if that is your highest level of education, I just thought it apropos to point out decimating speed is not exactly what you are packing.
> 
> As for the OP, lots of practice and be sure to realize it won't come out perfect every time. I have been harassed at many jobs by people like Mech Driver, so the next point is to realize there are lots of douche bags in the construction industry. I have given up on figuring out what makes them so angry, just try to get through my day and hope to stay busy and avoid the prima donna types. They run rampant in my experience.


The most satisfying part is when those guys screw up (and we all do eventually). You don't even have to rub it in his face, it's just fun to watch them squirm after being so high and mighty to everyone else. A little humility goes a long way in this industry.


----------



## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

480sparky said:


> Unless you're bending 1¼ with a hand bender. Then it helps to weigh 300 lbs. and put half that on the bender handle. :whistling2:


I was quoting an old Benfield conduit bending manual.


----------



## philipdybel (Feb 29, 2016)

*Manual Anyone ?*

OK I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the comments, but if it's like "every time we bend, pipe is dropping, benders dropping...", then there's a chance "someone" is doing "something" wrong...

You can almost always find a manual for any bender online, which gives you specific detailed steps on how to bend it right in one try.

Kids these days only need the web page link, they prefer it on their smart phones...

Old school is to download it as a pdf to a thumb drive, then take that to a copy shop & have them print it out. Usually costs $10-20, including clear cover page & coil binding. I do this all the time.

This is good bc you can make sure everyone is checked out on the manual, before they're allowed to touch the bender.

Also, there's a physical hard copy of the manual at the bender -- if there's an "accident", and they didn't follow the manual...

Two years ago we were using a 4" hydraulic bender to bend maybe 2-1/2" HW. I showed the lead guy (company's 90-day wonder) right on page __ how to do this offset, then I watched with a smile while he ignored me, jammed the piston and jammed the pipe inside the bender. Six of us couldn't muscle it apart, they had to take the whole bender head + pipe back to the shop at the end of the day.

Needless to say we didn't get free company pizza that Friday...


----------



## Moonshot180 (Apr 1, 2012)

theJcK said:


> "Pretty pipe is harder to pull.."


 
great advice IMO....


----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

I once used a heat gun to put a kick in a 1 1/4 EMT conduit. Be careful, it gets very hot lol


----------



## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

Mech Diver said:


> Is that a Canadian clap, most stuff is slow up there isn't it ?


 It all just looks slow, because we are all so smooth.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

donaldelectrician said:


> Darn , 480 , I have never seen one ...cool . A Solon Bender 1 1/4 Ratchet Bender Now I swere i have seen a 1 1/2 inch hand bender with Kicker pedal , at the shop in my first year. NOT 1 1/4 as usual ... Any one else seen one 1 1/2 hand bender ? Don


We had one in the shop 30 years ago.. It was big and ugly.. It had come from our local CB unit..

Biggest I bend by hand is 1 1/4" and I'm a light weight. It's all in how you do it.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Wirenuting said:


> We had one in the shop 30 years ago.. It was big and ugly.. It had come from our local CB unit..
> 
> Biggest I bend by hand is 1 1/4" and I'm a light weight. It's all in how you do it.


You mean like this?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

donaldelectrician said:


> Darn , 480 , I have never seen one ...cool .
> 
> A Solon Bender 1 1/4 Ratchet Bender..........



Maybe when the weather clears up I'll get mine out and do a video to show y'all how freekin' dammed easy it is to use.


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

480sparky said:


> You mean like this? Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKA22HSCBe4


I have my sea legs so I don't flop around like the video.


----------



## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

An easy way to bend perfect 30* bends with a hand bender is to level the bender handle when your bending on the ground, when the handle is level, it's a perfect 30* bend, that way you not guessing and your offset will be exactly what you wanted


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

ohiosparky99 said:


> An easy way to bend perfect 30* bends with a hand bender is to level the bender handle when your bending on the ground, when the handle is level, it's a perfect 30* bend, that way you not guessing and your offset will be exactly what you wanted


Err.... that would be_ plumb _the handle, not level.


----------



## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Err.... that would be plumb the handle, not level.


 you would be correct, my bad


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

philipdybel said:


> OK I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the comments, but if it's like "every time we bend, pipe is dropping, benders dropping...", then there's a chance "someone" is doing "something" wrong...
> 
> You can almost always find a manual for any bender online, which gives you specific detailed steps on how to bend it right in one try.
> 
> ...




Read, you want youngins to read.....they like looking at pics and videos.


----------



## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

The problem with bigoted, absolute statements, is they are only about 5% true.
The rest is a result of hardening brain stems and bad humor.

I recently got a tablet, and realized there were dozens of electrical related apps. 
And a lot of them free. I have a couple for pipe bending, box fills, pipe fill, calculations, theory and study.
I also have the books on it. Like Ugly's electrical references. 
I started with the books, and the apps are just another format.

For me using the book or the tablet is a matter of convenience.

For something like the NEC, the book is easier to use, and I don't even know if they have an app for the entire book. Probably do. But I have only found an NEC changes app. And that is still being built.

Pipe bending, I try and be honest with people when they ask how much experience I have. Because it is one of those things, they will instantly find out, if you played it up, like some people might do.

I have done the various bends several times, but not a lot.
I haven't done 50+ hour days of pipe bending. Most places don't try to use a hand bender past a 1" It wastes more pipe than it is worth.

I have mostly done 1/2 and 3/4 a few times.
I know how to fix a dog leg in most cases, unless it gets bent off 2 times.

The details get more experience in smaller settings, like in small commercial and residential, because the mistakes show up easier.


----------



## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Don't waste time doing fancy calculations to get every thing just right. 
Do simple calculations do your bends accurately with enough pipe on ether side line up your offsets, saddles,90's or what ever you are bending how you want them to look and cut them to fit.
ALWAYS set your 555 on a table it makes bending so much easier.

LC


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Don't waste time doing fancy calculations to get every thing just right.
> Do simple calculations do your bends accurately with enough pipe on ether side line up your offsets, saddles,90's or what ever you are bending how you want them to look and cut them to fit.
> ALWAYS set your 555 on a table it makes bending so much easier.
> 
> LC



What's the difference between a fancy calculation and a simple one?

And what's the difference between _getting everything just right_ and _bending it the way you want_?


----------



## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

I haven't found any fancy calculations in bending. There is the standard ones that they teach for what type of bend needed. After that people may come up with others way to gauge how to make the bend.
Some people can just do it by sight and have it come out correctly.

But the standard just helps people across the board.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

degupita said:


> The problem with bigoted, absolute statements, is they are only about 5% true.
> The rest is a result of hardening brain stems and bad humor.
> 
> I recently got a tablet, and realized there were dozens of electrical related apps.
> ...


Any reason my responses where deleted from this post?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

I don't see how a discussion between the definitions beteeen bigoted and prejudice should be a problem? 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

Especially when someone calls a member's remark bigoted and I request whom that may be? There were no racial slurs or name calling involved. An answer would be greatly appreciated. Feal free to p.m. if necessary. Thanks 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

Otherwise to me, leaving the originating question while deleting the rest seams you agree with his /her accusation. 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

I have a 1/2 bender.
I am now would like to find out if it has any angle defects from falling.
I got it used at a pawn shop.
It does seem to bend straight, as long as I don't get in the way.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

degupita said:


> I have a 1/2 bender.
> I am now would like to find out if it has any angle defects from falling.
> I got it used at a pawn shop.
> It does seem to bend straight, as long as I don't get in the way.


There is no way of telling because you don't have the history of the previous owner (besides defects in the shoe ). And a prejudicial remark for me to say is : people who buy from pawn shops buy "usually stolen goods" . Now I'm not suggesting you buy knowingly, but do you see my point from prejudicial and bigotry leanings? A bigot has a predetermined mind set based on color of skin ecetera, while a prejudicial remark basis one judgement on experience and or information (could be false or feed from bigotry ). There is a huge difference. Not trying to win an argument but can't believe why our discussion was deleted. No hard feelings because I fear a soon banishment!  


degupita said:


> I have a 1/2 bender.
> I am now would like to find out if it has any angle defects from falling.
> I got it used at a pawn shop.
> It does seem to bend straight, as long as I don't get in the way.



Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

I don't mind that they deleted my comments where I was talking to you.
Because it was getting ugly, and I didn't do what you are trying to impress that I did.
I made a take it or leave it comment on bigoted, absolute statements based on reading the thread. And then I talked about electrical related stuff.
I didn't directly accuse anyone of that. But you insisted that I name someone, and make it personal.

I was expressing my feelings about the way some people express themselves.

As far as I understand the rules. There should be no personal attacks. 
My comment wasn't personal, but you want to make it personal and make what I said the issue.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

degupita said:


> I don't mind that they deleted my comments where I was talking to you.
> Because it was getting ugly, and I didn't do what you are trying to impress that I did.
> I made a take it or leave it comment on bigoted, absolute statements based on reading the thread. And then I talked about electrical related stuff.
> I didn't directly accuse anyone of that. But you insisted that I name someone, and make it personal.
> ...


Sorry but I didn't intend it to be. 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

zac said:


> Sorry but I didn't intend it to be.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


No hard feelings. Just like to understand people sometimes. I can be a little rigid and mean no harm, I apologize to you if I offended you by being harsh. I note we will disagree on terms or ideologies but I don't want to impress that I am above you or anybody else. 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Good pipework flows with the architecture , and is _pleasing_ to the eye:thumbsup:

I once had a crew of noobs who had _never _seen a bender:no:

so that is where i _started_.....:whistling2:

10,000 ft later, they weren't so bad....:thumbup:

~CS~


----------



## Moonshot180 (Apr 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Good pipework flows with the architecture , and is _pleasing_ to the eye:thumbsup:
> 
> I once had a crew of noobs who had _never _seen a bender:no:
> 
> ...


 
Flowing with the architecture, yeah cool and looks pleasing...still have to keep in mind what a previous poster said, pretty pipe is harder to pull. 

Or unless you got a few buckets of yellow 77 that you don't mind usin :thumbup:


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

backstay said:


> I doubt anyone can measure .01 of an inch with a tape measure. Or .06 of an inch on a 6 in offset(1/16") accurately over and over.


Why not use 1.414 and do your layout as accurate as possible? With all of the other variables that can affect measurements it helps to get it as close as possible. It's not like the old days when calculators were too big or expensive to carry in your pocket. 

By variables, I mean things like getting the correct amount of offset needed, crooked building members that the pipe is attached to, worn out benders, etc. 

IMO, here's the best two bending books:
http://www.conduitbending.com/Home.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Electricians-Guide-Conduit-Bending-Edition/dp/9998210143


----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

Shoot a laser on the wall, then mount all your clips in the run like this. Then you're not holding a conduit up while trying to drill a hole.


----------



## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

One thing that drives me crackers is when I see guys wasting time setting up a laser line to run their pipe straight, when there is something straight running parallel to where they want to be within a few feet, like another pipe, or a wall, or a seam in concrete. These guys will spend five minutes setting the line up trying to get it perfect, then bitch when somebody kicks the laser or even better, they stick it to something movable and complain because it won't stay straight. Get good at adding and subtracting fractions, and use your measuring tape. I only use a laser when I have no fast, easy to use reference points. Otherwise you are wasting time, not saving it.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

You guys want accurate....Try one of these. 

http://mep.trimble.com


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

No lasers. Just tape measures.


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)




----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

B-Nabs said:


> One thing that drives me crackers is when I see guys wasting time setting up a laser line to run their pipe straight, when there is something straight running parallel to where they want to be within a few feet, like another pipe, or a wall, or a seam in concrete. These guys will spend five minutes setting the line up trying to get it perfect, then bitch when somebody kicks the laser or even better, they stick it to something movable and complain because it won't stay straight. Get good at adding and subtracting fractions, and use your measuring tape. I only use a laser when I have no fast, easy to use reference points. Otherwise you are wasting time, not saving it.


lol This method is fast once you get all the clips up


----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

That looks great!


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Inspect all your shipments, deliveries or in-store purchases. Do not accept damaged bundles. You'd be surprised how some of the Neanderthals that have handled it can induce an ever-so-slight but imperceptible bow into the entire bundle.


----------



## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Aegis said:


> That looks great!


Not my work. One of my guys.


----------



## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

There was a funny moment when the head electrical foreman of a site, was showing me and another apprentice the really clean, neat conduit runs for a job he did, or was on before. On his phone, he had pics.

He was like, "this is how I do it and like it done."

The thing was it was 5" conduit that came pre-bent to fit. 
Assuming he did any of it, he would just piece them together like a hamster tube run. Both of us knew it, even with our limited experience.


----------



## philipdybel (Feb 29, 2016)

degupita I would have said to the head foreman,

"WOW! Those 5-inch bends are SWEET!"

"So boss can I ask: how many inches of 'Bender Take-Up' did you have to use, when you bent those 90's ?"


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Maybe he used Greenlee's new auto bend 3D with the Revit software?

http://www.bendingrevolution.com/#autobend


----------



## philipdybel (Feb 29, 2016)

Yeah those are awesome, quick on-the-money bends, less chance for numerical errors...

So maybe that foreman would have replied, "Pleb I didn't have to measure it, I used the new 'Habitrail 555', it has an auto, um, a uh ..." (coughs, changes subject)


----------



## mitch65 (Mar 26, 2015)

480sparky said:


> What's the difference between a fancy calculation and a simple one?
> 
> And what's the difference between _getting everything just right_ and _bending it the way you want_?


A doily


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

B-Nabs said:


> One thing that drives me crackers is when I see guys wasting time setting up a laser line to run their pipe straight, when there is something straight running parallel to where they want to be within a few feet, like another pipe, or a wall, or a seam in concrete. These guys will spend five minutes setting the line up trying to get it perfect, then bitch when somebody kicks the laser or even better, they stick it to something movable and complain because it won't stay straight. Get good at adding and subtracting fractions, and use your measuring tape. I only use a laser when I have no fast, easy to use reference points. Otherwise you are wasting time, not saving it.


That and, back when the only laser a lot of us saw was>>>

http://cdn.20m.es/img2/recortes/2013/10/02/140386-944-415.jpg

~C:laughing:S~


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Steve, those lasers were popular.... So where rolling scaffolds and ground men.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Now I want to hear a story of someone being taught to bend a ridged 90 with a hickey and folding rule from a journeyman in bell bottoms.


----------



## philipdybel (Feb 29, 2016)

*No Offense Intended*

OK mods please let me here make a public apology to degupita,

Please know that I did not intentionally make any "bigoted, absolute statement(s)". Yes I am "a bit" rough, and my gallows humor does not win awards -- but the idea is for us to all go home the end of the day, the same way we came in. Guess it goes with the whole "working with live 480 for a career choice" thing...

At the same time, anyone I've worked with -- especially all trainees / apprentices -- will tell you I'm easy going, positive attitude, good lead guy, safety conscious, helpful with tips training & code, understanding if there's a problem, and really care about people.

Well enuf lies about me, probably the statement of issue is when I wrote,



> Kids these days only need the web page link, they prefer it on their smart phones...
> 
> Old school is to download ... & have them print it out.


In this post I was not in any way trying to disrespect anyone, or to say one way is better than the other.

Maybe I'm grandpa status, I don't care, I like flippin thru pages. Works for me. At the same time, maybe someone else / maybe you prefer a manual on your phone / tablet / whatever -- if you can follow what it says, good for you! No reason it should matter to me, if you got a way that gets that manual in your eyes, more power to you...

(Were I on the clock, on my job site, I might add, "I don't care if you call Mongolia and have them chant it to you, just make sure you know exactly what the **** manual says before you do it!")

Please know that my only intent is this: when there's even the slightest question with what you are about to do, refer to the manufacturer's manual. (Of course, if not journeyman level refer first to your super...)

On site I sometimes tell trainees / apprentices "Do it exactly like this, put this here, then do this ..." Other times, I say "So this manual I told you to take home last night and ask me in the morning if you have any questions -- do you have any questions, or are you ready to roll this offset?"

Either way bro, no one will remember the manual 100%, and at some point we'll all need to refer to it, sometimes I do several times per hour. That's not bad -- that's actually good -- bc it shows we care, we respect the company's property materials & safety, and we want to do it right.

And in general, those of us born 50 years or so ago don't say things "just right". Part of your / our job, on & off this forum, is to develop that intuition: whether someone is "on your side" and wants us all to excel at what we do, or whether he don't give a spit whether you come back whole at the end of the day...

Philip Dybel


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

cabletie said:


> Now I want to hear a story of someone being taught to bend a ridged 90 with a hickey and folding rule from a journeyman in bell bottoms.


_good one_ cabletie.....:thumbsup:~CS~


----------



## nbb (Jul 12, 2014)

I'm not sure how this thread got so emotional, I feel bad about my tirade against Mech Driver. I did bend some 1/2" today and it was fighting me. I know this crap is simple, and I should know it, which is why it pisses me off when I screw up back to back 90's. At least a 1/2" bone pile is cheap, and I nailed my offsets. I was in a few elevator pits, and talk about some hard ass concrete. My cordless roto-hammer and Bosch bits took care of it, though.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

chicken steve said:


> Good pipework flows with the architecture , and is _pleasing_ to the eye:thumbsup:
> 
> I once had a crew of noobs who had _never _seen a bender:no:
> 
> ...


How much of that 10,000 made it into the building?

:laughing:


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> One thing that drives me crackers is when I see guys wasting time setting up a laser line to run their pipe straight, when there is something straight running parallel to where they want to be within a few feet, like another pipe, or a wall, or a seam in concrete. These guys will spend five minutes setting the line up trying to get it perfect, then bitch when somebody kicks the laser or even better, they stick it to something movable and complain because it won't stay straight. Get good at adding and subtracting fractions, and use your measuring tape. I only use a laser when I have no fast, easy to use reference points. Otherwise you are wasting time, not saving it.



Plainly you need to watch:


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

cabletie said:


> You guys want accurate....Try one of these.
> 
> http://mep.trimble.com



Trimble is TOO high in quality -- and out of the price range for ECs.

Last time I saw a quote it was $5,000 for a 'simple' system.

Trimble -- himself -- the inventor - tweaks each and every unit before it's shipped.

Not a mass produced item. :no:


----------



## philipdybel (Feb 29, 2016)

*Valdemort Anyone?*

nbb please may I offer this idea for consideration:

A career-changing skill, esp if you're doing 1/2", TW or HW it don't matter, it's like #8 copper if you can see it like this:

At the end of the day, off the clock, grab a piece of that 1/2" off the bone pile. Let's say the stub it has is 12", can you "unbend" it and make it 13" ?

Know it sounds crazy, but it is a valuable job skill if you can try a few pieces of bonepile until you get it right. YUUGE t&m saver, helps the company, etc.

Yes if you do it right (and I mean right) it won't reduce interior volume -- but the galvanize might look a bit funky, best for concealed work...

Back in the day, when I ran 1000' of 1/2" TW a day: if my double bend ended up 1" short, I would "unbend" 1" on the short side, and add 1" on the long side...

Am I talking Valdemort-level skills here, or is this a good thing to master? Anyone?

Oh yeah, if you have this same skill with a hydraulic & big-radius HW, you might be the one whose work gets that free company pizza every Friday. Three years ago, a stick of 4" HW was $250 where I live...


----------



## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

telsa said:


> Plainly you need to watch:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PFy98ny_N8


That's very cool and I would love to have one.

Let me make this clear: I am not opposed to lasers. I think they have their place, I think they're absolutely great. I also think that in the wrong hands they can do more harm than good. And, the point I was trying to make above, is that it is equally important to know when NOT to use one. Like the example I mentioned above. If I ask someone to run a single pipe straight across a ceiling, one where there is a simple reference point somewhere nearby, be it a parallel wall, pipe, concrete seam, whatever, I am going to be peeved if I come back as they're setting up a laser. In that scenario, that tool is totally unnecessary, and in my opinion takes more time than just measuring against nearby reference points. Now if that pipe run is 100' long that's maybe a different story. But I literally work with guys who bust out a laser to run 20' of 1/2" with an abundance of easily found reference points in the area. The other day I had a guy run a pipe down the middle of a 5' wide hallway, and I swear he had a laser set up, stuck to the side rail of a metal cart, and was complaining about how hard it was to keep it straight. I didn't even know where to begin. The desire to keep a fixed line by fastening your laser to a cart on wheels? The fact that the walls of the hall are 30" to either side of your ladder? The fact that there are already pipes running down that hall? And a concrete seam to boot? You might as well be piping on a graph FFS, what do you need the effing laser for?!?!?!?!?!? Rant over.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

He's the 'logical' heir to the 3-Stooges.

Abe Lincoln would say, "He's got the *slows*." :laughing:


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

philipdybel....

I calibrate my Greenlee and Benefield one-shot benders.

That is, I don't accept the factory cast marks on the bending shoe.

Greenlee's 1" EMT (842) has its 'star' pointing WRONG.

This becomes obvious when you compare it to the 840 and 841 -- and when you actually perform an 'away' bend.

Yes, it's off by a FULL INCH.

Oops. :blink: :whistling2:

&&&&&&&

I file the notches to make them crisp -- and then apply nail polish to redden them up.

The net effect is flamingly obvious registration marks.

I go beyond the factory and lay out the back of bend for (my) favorite bends. ( those less than a quarter-turn, that is.)

&&&&

Bending a running stick in the sky ( scissor lift style ) gets easy if the handle is flipped 180 degrees.

To do so take two (2) plumber's (tight) 90 elbows and get your complete 180 degrees of turn.

Don't use pipe dope to lock them sweet. Use a self-tapping 'Silver bullet' or some such TEK screw to jamb the threads.

This reversing modifier can be un-screwed at will. 

You may return it ( handle&shoe) to its straight and up-right position.

This kinky adaptor is sweet for running 1/2" EMT EM runs above the grid of a box retail store. I stop at 1/2" -- which is spaghetti. 3/4" would be too much for me. ( age )

&&&&

As previously posted here at ET....

Cut apart a common die cast set screw coupling...

To produce two (2) 'stops.'

With trivial filing effort, make the faces sweet and crisp.

These now become 'stops' for your measuring tape// rule.

You can slide them up and down -- as the ring in the center of the old coupling has been sawn away.

Now you can measure twice and bend once -- entirely eliminating the need for your unique craft skill.

&&&&&&&

There's a few fellas with lousy math skills -- especially when they get tired.

Solution:

A 5" stub of 1/2" EMT -- with a coupling...

A 6" stub of 3/4" EMT -- with a coupling...

You slap the extension onto the tip of your intended stub-up -- and then pull your tape -- one time only -- to the perfect location -- to be marked for the arrow -- for stubbing. No math needed.

And you STOP crossing up 5" with 6" and vice versa. :thumbsup:


----------



## philipdybel (Feb 29, 2016)

telsa I am right now asking my LtC permission, pls give me 1/2 hr etc


----------



## philipdybel (Feb 29, 2016)

*Rebend Baby*

telsa,

I'm saying:

If I mis-bend a 1/2 pipe, can I re-bend it to spec?

I can.

Can u?


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

I did a job where a guy brought his own bender.. It seemed like a good concept - it had both a 1/2" and 3/4" EMT on the same head (dual shoes).. He piped the entire crawl space with it.. When we went to pull it, what a disaster.. Most of the 90's were flattened.. He must not know how to add up to 360, cuz some of the runs had 7 90's in them.. When he got to a difficult spot, he just skipped it - which led to more than one coil of fish tape in the crawl space... What a PITA... The foreman was wondering why all this "conduit" was coming flying out of the crawl space entry ways. He looked in and started to rip on me (I was a third year).. I showed him what his "j/men" were running.. His head dropped and said, fix it.. I didn't really see too much of him afterwards...


----------



## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

Damn. :laughing:
Just for the record, I am bigoted sometimes. Half of what is written on this site is bigoted. It isn't that big a deal, and I didn't name anyone.
If you feel your opinion is superior to others and find yourself intolerant toward other views, than that is bigoted. :thumbsup:

Its a dogleg.


----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

B-Nabs said:


> That's very cool and I would love to have one. Let me make this clear: I am not opposed to lasers. I think they have their place, I think they're absolutely great. I also think that in the wrong hands they can do more harm than good. And, the point I was trying to make above, is that it is equally important to know when NOT to use one. Like the example I mentioned above. If I ask someone to run a single pipe straight across a ceiling, one where there is a simple reference point somewhere nearby, be it a parallel wall, pipe, concrete seam, whatever, I am going to be peeved if I come back as they're setting up a laser. In that scenario, that tool is totally unnecessary, and in my opinion takes more time than just measuring against nearby reference points. Now if that pipe run is 100' long that's maybe a different story. But I literally work with guys who bust out a laser to run 20' of 1/2" with an abundance of easily found reference points in the area. The other day I had a guy run a pipe down the middle of a 5' wide hallway, and I swear he had a laser set up, stuck to the side rail of a metal cart, and was complaining about how hard it was to keep it straight. I didn't even know where to begin. The desire to keep a fixed line by fastening your laser to a cart on wheels? The fact that the walls of the hall are 30" to either side of your ladder? The fact that there are already pipes running down that hall? And a concrete seam to boot? You might as well be piping on a graph FFS, what do you need the effing laser for?!?!?!?!?!? Rant over.


Your example is for short runs, which makes sense because it's so short. But if you're doing a long run like 100' +, setting up a laser and drilling all your coupling holes at once saves time. It doesn't take that long to setup up. Most lasers have magnets on them, so just throw it on a beam and push it up or down a few times.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

telsa said:


> How much of that 10,000 made it into the building?
> 
> :laughing:


There were a lot more couplings ordered than intended......~CS~


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> That's very cool and I would love to have one.
> 
> Let me make this clear: I am not opposed to lasers. I think they have their place, I think they're absolutely great. I also think that in the wrong hands they can do more harm than good.


I'll go a step further, me working in mostly crooked old buildings, a laser straight line is no help, you're better off building your conduit to match the lines of the building than the laser. You won't have anything to brag about when you're done. If someone looks at your work and it weaves closer and further from the ceiling, they're going to say "Look at that crooked pipe he put in, was he drunk?" not "Look at how crooked this old building is."


----------



## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Aegis said:


> Your example is for short runs, which makes sense because it's so short. But if you're doing a long run like 100' +, setting up a laser and drilling all your coupling holes at once saves time. It doesn't take that long to setup up. Most lasers have magnets on them, so just throw it on a beam and push it up or down a few times.


No argument there. I'll be the first to suggest the use of a laser where the task warrants it. Like I said above, as important to know when to use it as when not.


----------



## teejayshelton (Feb 25, 2016)

B-Nabs said:


> No argument there. I'll be the first to suggest the use of a laser where the task warrants it. Like I said above, as important to know when to use it as when not.


+1 There is a time and a place for everything.

My dad was/is a big laser fan. He liked to have his guys setup a vertical and a horizontal when building strut racks and there isn't a super close parallel for the rack. He would set them up/have them set up the vertical for the first anchor point and the horizontal for the elevation. No dropping your tape to the floor for elevation and if your parallel was more than a foot or 2 away no sliding a tape out and your horizontal either. I don't do large industrial/commercial or public work anymore but I followed his lead when I was running my own jobs. Made for clean installs with less tape pulls.


----------



## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

We're all in agreement. I saw a guy run a string to line up two potlights in a vestibule. That to me is wasting time lol


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

What about center bends for saddles? 

Most benders only have the center of a 45 degree bend on them. (the notch)

You have to add the center of the other degrees on your bender, but saddles are much easier using the center marks.

The biggest advantage is you don't have to flip the conduit around for the third bend.

Anyone else do this?


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

B-Nabs said:


> ... Get good at adding and subtracting* fractions,* and use your measuring tape. ...


I never got my guys to try it, but I think productivity would go up 5-10% if we just started using metric rulers and tapes. I believe that a good portion of the bends in the scrap pipe are because of math errors in adding and subtracting fractions. 
Even talked about this with my JW way back as a first year apprentice and still never tried it. We were going to, but then I got rotated to another contractor.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

eddy current said:


> What about center bends for saddles?
> 
> Most benders only have the center of a 45 degree bend on them. (the notch)
> 
> ...


I put center marks on everything for that reason. And for 90s with kicks. 

An apprentice told me that he was shown to use the star-notch-arrow for feed through. I never tried it. Now I am not sure if it is arrow-notch-star. 

I also put inch marks down the handle of the bender. Starting at the top where the conduit lays in the shoe. Make the first bend, any angle, or use a degree. The next bend you roll the conduit 180 and send it down so the bottom of the conduit is aligned with your measurement for an offset. Make the next bend. With a little practice anyone can hit the mark every time. I only do that for single conduit runs. 

I use a story pole for a tape measure on some runs. Sometimes I will cut the 3/4" EMT story pole on an angle. This way I can stab it through the fireproofing on the steel I-beams.


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> I never got my guys to try it, but I think productivity would go up 5-10% if we just started using metric rulers and tapes. I believe that a good portion of the bends in the scrap pipe are because of math errors in adding and subtracting fractions.
> Even talked about this with my JW way back as a first year apprentice and still never tried it. We were going to, but then I got rotated to another contractor.


Don't be so sure... I asked an apprentice (20 years old-ish), who had been working with us for some time installing cable tray, to cut me a piece of tray 5,480 mm long (215 3/4")... He comes back a short time later, with a piece of tray under his arm all filed and drilled.. I said wth is that?? He said that's what you wanted isn't it? We measured it and it was 548 mm long (21 1/2").. I said I think you're a little short.. He said he didn't know what I meant and dropped the zero.. Well with cable tray up here being 6 meters long, and him lopping 548 mm off it, that made the other end too short to be used on this one... I said to him "It's your system!! You grew up with it and only it!! How do you not know how to use it??".. He didn't have an answer....

Also had a guy who read a length to me when I was holding the dumb end of the tape and he said "143 2/3" long..".. I'll let you guess my reaction to that one too...  lol...


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

glen1971 said:


> I did a job where a guy brought his own bender.. It seemed like a good concept -* it had both a 1/2" and 3/4" EMT on the same head (dual shoes*).. He piped the entire crawl space with it.. When we went to pull it, what a disaster.. Most of the 90's were flattened.. He must not know how to add up to 360, cuz some of the runs had 7 90's in them.. When he got to a difficult spot, he just skipped it - which led to more than one coil of fish tape in the crawl space... What a PITA... The foreman was wondering why all this "conduit" was coming flying out of the crawl space entry ways. He looked in and started to rip on me (I was a third year).. I showed him what his "j/men" were running.. His head dropped and said, fix it.. I didn't really see too much of him afterwards...


That's a Benfield design.












It's NOT for normal usage. It produces the TIGHTEST quarter-bends of ANY one-shot bender.

It's also a SLOW bender head, as it's a spot of bother to unload EMT after a bend.

Where it comes into its own is in TIGHT QUARTERS -- which for our purposes does not mean craw spaces.

As a rule, its ultra tight radius bends only make sense as the terminal bend in tight quarters... say coming out of a wall.

It's not a cheap bender head, either. I had to wait three-weeks for mine to be shipped out from the factory. It's not a stock item. (typically)

The foreman was crazy to let the fellow use that bender. Four quarter-turns with that radius -- yiikes. :no:

It's a shoe what ought to be reserved for master electricians -- or the owner's tool crib.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

cabletie said:


> I put center marks on everything for that reason. And for 90s with kicks.
> 
> An apprentice told me that he was shown to use the star-notch-arrow for feed through. I never tried it. Now I am not sure if it is arrow-notch-star.
> 
> ...


I make my saddles the exact same way.

Instead of two-bends -- per your description -- I bend shallow -- then twice shallow on the 180 -- and then, by eye, push on through and bend another shallow.

I can bang out a saddle in 1" in about 75 seconds.

I favor shallow bends and gentle saddles... 10::20::10 => 40 degrees.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

With the noobs i made an offset , and laid it on the floor, told 'em to make another dz , and have them all '_seat_' up against each other on the floor.

I left them alone with their obvious mass dyslexia for a while , but sometimes ya gotta give 'em the space to figure things themselves.....


~CS~


----------



## R777V (May 16, 2016)

Just bought an 1 1/2” bender for aluminum ridgid. Gardner Bender model 944. Not sure if it’s still in production. 75$ with shipping on eBay anyone else know if they are still being made?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

R777V said:


> Just bought an 1 1/2” bender for aluminum ridgid. Gardner Bender model 944. Not sure if it’s still in production. 75$ with shipping on eBay anyone else know if they are still being made?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


benders last forever, learn the bender and enjoy. Where are you running rigid aluminum?


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

R777V said:


> Just bought an 1 1/2” bender for aluminum ridgid. Gardner Bender model 944. Not sure if it’s still in production. 75$ with shipping on eBay anyone else know if they are still being made?


Gardner Bender was always a handyman brand sold at Ace and True Value and other such places. I'm surprised they made a bender that large. Pretty much everything they made was/is garbage and still is if they even exist anymore.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I got's a 1/2" GB emt bender with a bubble level. The bomb.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

MTW said:


> Gardner Bender was always a handyman brand sold at Ace and True Value and other such places. I'm surprised they made a bender that large. Pretty much everything they made was/is garbage and still is if they even exist anymore.


I saw an actual Gardner Bender catalog some time back, and they make a heck of a lot of stuff I never realized. Hydraulic benders, electric benders, the whole nine yards. There's probably a reason I've never seen one on a job though. I hate any hand bender that is 45 degrees when the handle is straight up, and the GB ones are that way. I can't cope. :sad:


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> I saw an actual Gardner Bender catalog some time back, and they make a heck of a lot of stuff I never realized. Hydraulic benders, electric benders, the whole nine yards. There's probably a reason I've never seen one on a job though. I hate any hand bender that is 45 degrees when the handle is straight up, and the GB ones are that way. I can't cope. :sad:


Well I'll be, looks like they still make that stuff according to their website. Likewise I have never seen any GB professional tool either other than the hand benders. I didn't know they had that 45 degree feature. That makes me hate them even more. I hated them because they lacked the Benfield marks that the Ideal benders have. That's a deal breaker for me.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

MTW said:


> Well I'll be, looks like they still make that stuff according to their website. Likewise I have never seen any GB professional tool either other than the hand benders. I didn't know they had that 45 degree feature. That makes me hate them even more. I hated them because they lacked the Benfield marks that the Ideal benders have. That's a deal breaker for me.


They don't need the handle to be up at 30 since they have very cute and useful bubble levels built in that never ever ever break ever.............


----------



## R777V (May 16, 2016)

Wherever I can, this is marked specifically for aluminum rigid only. My guess is it isn’t beefy enough to bend steel. Not that I am even physically strong enough to attempt that anyways. I’ve bent 1 1/4” aluminum with a ridgid brand hickey and it worked like a charm. That was for a 60 to 100 amp service upgrade in Chicago suburbs. I’m looking into a hydraulic bender though. Had found a Blackhawk brand that was missing parts for peanuts. Still trying to piece it together. I don’t do much electrical work outside of my full time gig as a maintenance electrician at United Airlines. We do more facilities maintenance and HVACR work. Though we really don’t do much pipe work over 1 1/4”. So we don’t have any hydraulic or mechanical benders. I’m hoping to do more side gigs, hence my wishful thinking in buying the xl hand benders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## R777V (May 16, 2016)

BTW, I have used greenlee, ideal, benfield, and a few others over the years. I think if I had to choose the benfield was probably my favorite. I actually tried a couple GB’s and didn’t mind them. Though I don’t get that picky with the 30 degree thing like some guys have. Am I mistaken or are the Klein benders basically a Benfield design?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## R777V (May 16, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> They don't need the handle to be up at 30 since they have very cute and useful bubble levels built in that never ever ever break ever.............




I agree cute, I have a 3/4 and a 1 1/4”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

R777V said:


> I agree cute, I have a 3/4 and a 1 1/4”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did your bubble levels break yet? Mine did like almost right away when I got the thing 40 years ago..........


----------



## R777V (May 16, 2016)

macmikeman said:


> They don't need the handle to be up at 30 since they have very cute and useful bubble levels built in that never ever ever break ever.............




Sorry, I have a 3/4” & 1 1/4” benders, that both broke levels, and what kills me is I have yet to find replacements to fit. Anyone have an idea where to find the right size bubbles to replace them. I might just garage sale them at a huge discount



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## R777V (May 16, 2016)

All except my 1/2” GB, the benfields, ideal, and greenlees I have work pretty well, then again I have hoarded so many over the years I would like to find a way to swage rigid pipe so I didn’t need to buy premade bender handles. Unless someone knows a place to buy them at a cheaper price?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Post a picture of this beast. Is it like an 1-1/4" EMT bender with the big foot pedal? I did a search and nothing came up. 

For what your doing, you should look for an old Enerpac mechanical bender or a Greenlee 880. I think I paid $300 for my 880. It leaks a little, but don't they all. Especially at that price. Otherwise it makes perfect bends.


----------



## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Read, you want youngins to read.....they like looking at pics and videos.


yeah and most of those have nothing to do with bending conduit:vs_laugh:


----------



## jabantik (Jan 13, 2015)

I brought my 1.25" bender to work today. To some people, having a 1.25" bender is a bit odd. To some people, commuting by bicycle is a bit odd. There doesn't seem to be much overlap between those groups, because everyone seemed to think I am a bit odd for bringing my bender to work by bicycle.


Does the picture work? I don't see it in the post preview. https://imgur.com/1BJoX2g


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

R777V said:


> macmikeman said:
> 
> 
> > They don't need the handle to be up at 30 since they have very cute and useful bubble levels built in that never ever ever break ever.............
> ...


you should be able to use a hand bender without the built in level. 

JMO


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

360max said:


> you should be able to use a hand bender without the built in level.
> 
> JMO


Wow, a remotely electrical post, we won't see another one of those for 5 years.


----------



## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

Now that's a spicy UNREP! I would have been swept off the fly bridge


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Never understood folks who bend a 90 (or an offset or whatever) and put their level on it. Seriously? You can’t look at it and tell? Or there’s not a doorway you can use? More importantly, what makes you think - even in new construction - that the floor is level to begin with? Yikes, man.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

tjb said:


> Never understood folks who bend a 90 (or an offset or whatever) and put their level on it. Seriously? You can’t look at it and tell? Or there’s not a doorway you can use? More importantly, what makes you think - even in new construction - that the floor is level to begin with? Yikes, man.


tradesmen who produce quality work use levels, we don’t eyeball or guess if it’s level


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

MTW said:


> 360max said:
> 
> 
> > you should be able to use a hand bender without the built in level.
> ...


i post one more for ya


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

tjb said:


> Never understood folks who bend a 90 (or an offset or whatever) and put their level on it. Seriously? You can’t look at it and tell? Or there’s not a doorway you can use? More importantly, what makes you think - even in new construction - that the floor is level to begin with? Yikes, man.





360max said:


> tradesmen who produce quality work use levels, we don’t eyeball or guess if it’s level


It always important that the 90 be perfect when it's bent you can persuade it a little when you're clamping it in place. That's when you want it right on the money, but even then, sometimes it's more important that it follow the not-level lines of a not-level building than that it be perfectly square / level / plumb. People don't look at your stuff and say "boy look how good that guy did, this building is not perfect but his conduit is!" they say "was that guy drunk when he installed that conduit? it's crooked from the wall and the ceiling"


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

360max said:


> tradesmen who produce quality work use levels, we don’t eyeball or guess if it’s level


Speak for yourself. Some of us, myself included, have laser precision by eye and can notice if something is crooked or not.


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Once it’s on the wall, by all means put your plum stick on it. But you can’t tell me that you’re checking a 90 by putting a level on the vertical stub without also putting a second level on the floor and adjusting both levels to be the same amount out of plum. And and my apologies for the spelling-Siri doesn’t know how to spell plum. It’s not a fruit!

PLUMB.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

tjb said:


> Once it’s on the wall, by all means put your plum stick on it. But you can’t tell me that you’re checking a 90 by putting a level on the vertical stub without also putting a second level on the floor and adjusting both levels to be the same amount out of plum. And and my apologies for the spelling-Siri doesn’t know how to spell plum. It’s not a fruit!
> 
> PLUMB.


put the level on the conduit in the floor to check for level than the verticals stub, it’s the only way for a perfect 90. Sometimes even use a 2’square


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

jabantik said:


> I brought my 1.25" bender to work today. To some people, having a 1.25" bender is a bit odd. To some people, commuting by bicycle is a bit odd. There doesn't seem to be much overlap between those groups, because everyone seemed to think I am a bit odd for bringing my bender to work by bicycle.
> 
> 
> Does the picture work? I don't see it in the post preview. https://imgur.com/1BJoX2g


And that is why having a tool list works :vs_laugh:


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

360max said:


> put the level on the conduit in the floor to check for level than the verticals stub, it’s the only way for a perfect 90. Sometimes even use a 2’square


With small conduit I would always use a metal door frame to check for square


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

360max said:


> put the level on the conduit in the floor to check for level than the verticals stub, it’s the only way for a perfect 90. Sometimes even use a 2’square




Assuming the horizontal portion on the floor is level. Which it often is not. So you either put one level on the horizontal length, and a second one on the vertical, and match how off the bubbles both are, or like I said jam it in a doorway or plumb it once it’s on the wall. Do you really think every floor is level?


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Digital level for perfect everythings everytime.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

tjb said:


> Never understood folks who bend a 90 (or an offset or whatever) and put their level on it. Seriously? You can’t look at it and tell? Or there’s not a doorway you can use? More importantly, what makes you think - even in new construction - that the floor is level to begin with? Yikes, man.


Or the guy who uses a “no-dog level” with a hand bender while bending upright, over your shoulder lain:


----------



## jabantik (Jan 13, 2015)

eddy current said:


> Or the guy who uses a “no-dog level” with a hand bender while bending upright, over your shoulder lain:



Oh, are no-dogs useful on sidewinders and table benders? I thought people wore them on their hard hats so they could pretend they are good at pipe.


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

jabantik said:


> Oh, are no-dogs useful on sidewinders and table benders? I thought people wore them on their hard hats so they could pretend they are good at pipe.


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

Good for both, stationary benders like table benders and Chicago benders,

And for pretending you can bend big pipe :biggrin:


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

i haven't used a level or no dog in years. There's so much conduit where i work that level is subject to all the other pipes. 

Tell the helper to step back 20 feet and tell me when its level. 

A good job done is when your boss has to ask you which pipe you ran. If he can not spot a new pipe from 20 feet away then i figure its blending into its background.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

jabantik said:


> Oh, are no-dogs useful on sidewinders and table benders? I thought people wore them on their hard hats so they could pretend they are good at pipe.


Funny you say that I knew a guy who sucked at running conduit that put his no dog on his hardhat. I guess we have our own posers.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

I don’t even own a no-dog, even though pipe is a good 60% of the work I do on a daily basis.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

tjb said:


> I don’t even own a no-dog, even though pipe is a good 60% of the work I do on a daily basis.


For rigid and large conduit there is no reason not to have one. Even if you can rig one up out of strut, it makes sense to at least own one.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

TGGT said:


> For rigid and large conduit there is no reason not to have one. Even if you can rig one up out of strut, it makes sense to at least own one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Well, you see, what most of these big dogs do is they got a no dog ego they inflate whenever their fingers touch the keyboard.


----------



## ralpha494 (Oct 29, 2008)

Before I ever put a pipe in a bender I always check to make sure that the I.D. of the pipe is smaller than the O.D.


I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this before.


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

ralpha494 said:


> Before I ever put a pipe in a bender I always check to make sure that the I.D. of the pipe is smaller than the O.D.
> 
> 
> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this before.




I got a full-body tattoo. Of myself. Only, an inch taller.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I've never used a level to bend regular 90's in small EMT. Again, I can tell by eye if it's over bent.


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

MTW said:


> I've never used a level to bend regular 90's in small EMT. Again, I can tell by eye if it's over bent.


Yeah but you got a trail of open 90s all across New England! 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

zac said:


> Yeah but you got a trail of open 90s all across New England!


----------



## pjholguin (May 16, 2014)

When did they put a bicycle on the tool list?:vs_cool:



eddy current said:


> And that is why having a tool list works :vs_laugh:


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

They used to supply the roller skates. Under the last contract we have to supply the bike, but they supply the basket. 

Somehow it got all screwed up when they opened up the contract because we wanted the contractor to supply playing cards. Should have left well enough alone.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

zac said:


> Yeah but you got a trail of open 90s all across New England!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


But they are all behind the drywall :wink:



My bending (small conduit) advice....don't bother with box offsets unless it's an exposed switch that has to be pretty


My bending (large conduit) advice....use factory ells


----------



## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

220/221 said:


> But they are all behind the drywall :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


box offsets

figure out your bend angle and distance between bends that you like to use and mark the distance on your shoe. let the front of the shoe be one mark and all you need is to put one mark on the shoe for your second bend, after a while you won't need to transfer the mark to the conduit you can use it as a reference guide as to how much you need to move the conduit in the bender.

i'm union and i actually have my own personal (compliments of employer) 3/4 bender with all my marks and some other stuff on it (story pole for offsets), i know you might get flack in some locals especially if your young so this doesn't work for everyone, but even if you have to mark a new bender your using every-time, as long as you keep track of how far back to put your mark you can put this on new benders you come across quickly and easily.

i have marks for combo boxes, 3/4 boxes and fs boxes, there all different, you can save a ton of time doing this and it makes for a very nice installation and no-one else will notice other guys box offsets out of a panel all being slightly different but yours will all be effectively identical


large conduit

some sectors in our industry can get away with that (i wouldn't want to if i could) but many cannot


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

220/221 said:


> But they are all behind the drywall :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Worked for one employer that would send out 90s and 45s for anything over 1 1/2" emt.

Oh and always a box of couplings...


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Worked for one employer that would send out 90s and 45s for anything over 1 1/2" emt.
> 
> Oh and always a box of couplings...


I wouldn't fault them considering the cost of tools, material, and expertise (or lack thereof). Especially if they mostly do small jobs.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TGGT said:


> I wouldn't fault them considering the cost of tools, material, and expertise (or lack thereof). Especially if they mostly do small jobs.


The estimator just thought it was a cheaper way to go not that the company did small jobs at all.


----------



## gpop (May 14, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The estimator just thought it was a cheaper way to go not that the company did small jobs at all.



If you look at someones labor rate and take into account set up and break down time of the machine then its probably cheaper on smaller jobs to use pre-bends. (smaller being the amount of bends used per day)


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

gpop said:


> If you look at someones labor rate and take into account set up and break down time of the machine then its probably cheaper on smaller jobs to use pre-bends. (smaller being the amount of bends used per day)


This guy did it on all the jobs he bid regardless of size and God forbid you made any waves.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

R777V said:


> All except my 1/2” GB, the benfields, ideal, and greenlees I have work pretty well, then again I have hoarded so many over the years I would like to find a way to swage rigid pipe so I didn’t need to buy premade bender handles. Unless someone knows a place to buy them at a cheaper price?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Benfield pointed out years ago that the steel in GRC is designed to be bent.

It proves out to make an inferior bender handle.

I've never seen a GRC handle that wasn't out of trim. You can't win.


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

EMT/GRC one-shot bender heads are castings. They are, therefore, flawed.

The old Greenlee 1" EMT bender even had the 'going-away' pointer in the wrong direction. Check it out by comparing it to their very same 1/2" and 3/4" heads. If used, you'll be off by a full inch!

I personally recalibrated my heads to discover that even the best are off a hair. 

I also throw in a 'going-away' pointer for 45 degree bends. I redden my marks with nail polish, then they are so easy to read up top in the lid.

Lastly, one is well advised to use compounded plumber's nipples (90s) so that you can place the bender handle in a 180 degree reverse position. This works best with 1/2" while up top on a scissor lift while running Emergency Circuits all over the lid. It means that you can just insert your EMT and then swing its direction to your pleasure. It's an amazing time saver.

You stop the nipples from shifting by driving in a self-tapping short screw. (Silver bullet) You can always reverse the modification in one-minute.

Greenlee (and others) have terrific bending trays for the small stuff. But they are too pricey for me. If I ran big work, they'd pencil out.

For me, anything beyond 1" EMT gets factory elbows. I've got a hydraulic bender, it's just too slow. I whip it into service only for offsets that I just can't avoid.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

telsa said:


> Benfield pointed out years ago that the steel in GRC is designed to be bent.
> 
> It proves out to make an inferior bender handle.
> 
> I've never seen a GRC handle that wasn't out of trim. You can't win.


Plus the bell end on the 1/2 and 3/4 is handy for adjusting stub 90s. 1" benders don't usually have a bell that I've seen.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I have an old Ideal cast bender head that I acquired from a large EC that went out of business here. I started using it in favor of the cheapie aluminum bender head that I bought at HD many years ago when I wanted to learn how to bend EMT. Anyway, it always over bends the 90's. I think I'm going back to the aluminum bender which didn't have that problem.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MTW said:


> I have an old Ideal cast bender head that I acquired from a large EC that went out of business here. I started using it in favor of the cheapie aluminum bender head that I bought at HD many years ago when I wanted to learn how to bend EMT. *Anyway, it always over bends the 90's*. I think I'm going back to the aluminum bender which didn't have that problem.


An inanimate object can't "over bend the 90's". 

I think what we have here is a pure case of operator error. :yes:


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

flyboy said:


> An inanimate object can't "over bend the 90's".
> 
> I think what we have here is a pure case of operator error. :yes:


There is no exact science to deal with springback. Greenlee cannot nail it down. They suggest bending 3 degree's over on 2" grc but also say try it out first to see, cause different batches or different manufacture will cause it to vary sometimes.


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

flyboy said:


> An inanimate object can't "over bend the 90's".
> 
> I think what we have here is a pure case of operator error. :yes:


Says the guy who couldn't wire a closet.


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MTW said:


> Says the guy who couldn't wire a closet.


:vs_rightHere:


----------



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> There is no exact science to deal with springback. Greenlee cannot nail it down. They suggest bending 3 degree's over on 2" grc but also say try it out first to see, cause different batches or different manufacture will cause it to vary sometimes.


Either could Ideal or Benfield. You have to learn the characteristics of the bender and adapt your technique. 

Experienced electricians proficient in the art of pipe bending know this. :whistling2:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Worked for one employer that would send out 90s and 45s for anything over 1 1/2" emt.
> 
> Oh and always a box of couplings...


You probably meant over 1 1/4 ?

Contractor or installer, there is no question that using factory ells thing to do.

I can see bending 1 1/4" because you can do it with a hand tool. Other than that, IMO, machine bending is a waste of resources.

If I was a contracting a large job, I'd still send out pre bent large EMT. If I had a bender, I might make them in the shop and send them out. I'd have to do the math to see if I could compete with the factories.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

flyboy said:


> An inanimate object can't "over bend the 90's".
> 
> I think what we have here is a pure case of operator error. :yes:


Must not a been a door frame nearby.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> There is no exact science to deal with springback. Greenlee cannot nail it down. They suggest bending 3 degree's over on 2" grc but also say try it out first to see, cause different batches or different manufacture will cause it to vary sometimes.


2.5* is my go to on larger conduits. It's usually pretty damn close. But that's why a digital level is crucial for quick, accurate, consistent bends in larger conduit. A lot of times I can take the pressure off the bender just enough to allow spring back, but not enough for the shoe to slip, zero out the digilevel on the long end and check my bent degree. Makes it easy to add a little, anyway.

Still need to find something heavy or bolted down if I'm over.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> There is no exact science to deal with springback. Greenlee cannot nail it down. They suggest bending 3 degree's over on 2" grc but also say try it out first to see, cause different batches or different manufacture will cause it to vary sometimes.


I would agree with the above when using a hand bender. But when using an old style rachet Chicago-bender then it’s easy to compensate for spring back using the “amount of travel” method described in many bender books. I wouldn’t do a good job of describing it here but it works and you can be dead-nuts on. Works great.

Basically you overbend a little, release the tension and make sure you pre-determined pencil mark lines up.


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

TGGT said:


> Still need to find something heavy or bolted down if I'm over.



Like a scissor lift. 

I’ve run literally miles of small emt (1/2, 3/4, 1”, 1 1/4” - that one’s always fun to watch!) over the years. I do so much by feel, often even simple offsets. Unless it’s multiple runs that have to look identical, at which point I become overly anal. 

But yes I almost always over bend my 90s by a few degrees (not on purpose). I use my boot to slap it flat and look at it. If I have to adjust (usually have to open a bit), I just roll it back up, and place the bell end of the bender over the stub and adjust. Takes a second, takes less time than checking the level of the floor and then translating that to a level on the stub. 

We all figure out what works for us, and generally if someone says they’re good at XYZ I believe them. (Unless they’re working for me and they suck and wasting company time and material!)


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

tjb said:


> Like a scissor lift.
> 
> I’ve run literally miles of small emt (1/2, 3/4, 1”, 1 1/4” - that one’s always fun to watch!) over the years. I do so much by feel, often even simple offsets. Unless it’s multiple runs that have to look identical, at which point I become overly anal.
> 
> ...


The conduit I'm talking about would lift a scissor lift (with help). Small pipe I'd rather go over.

Big pipe I'd rather be under and have to add a little, even in a hydraulic bender.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Anything like 3”, 4”, etc, I find it’s easier to take a little bend out than to add. When you add, it seems like it’s much more likely to kink. Have you found that?


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

tjb said:


> Anything like 3”, 4”, etc, I find it’s easier to take a little bend out than to add. When you add, it seems like it’s much more likely to kink. Have you found that?


No. I add in the bender, see my previous post on how you can do this efficiently with minimal fussing, even on a large hydraulic table bender. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

220/221 said:


> You probably meant over 1 1/4 ?
> 
> Contractor or installer, there is no question that using factory ells thing to do.
> 
> ...


I've done that math. I couldn't beat factory elbows even with free EMT.

You need to be working price insensitive jobs that contract specify field bends before it makes any economic sense to not use factory elbows. Here we're talking about concentric bending for the most part. That elegance really runs up the labor tab.:surprise:

It sure is pretty, though.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I make bends in 2" rigid fairly often. For overhead service masts - the poco- being HECO won't accept any factory bend or factory offset in the last ten feet going up to and thru the overhang, it has to be a single length with no couplings. I've made me some doozy's before thanks to picture windows being in the way at the building corners to prevent a straight up shot since the meter has to be located further down the wall from where the mast with weather head is gonna poke thru. Mahalo to Greenlee for inventing the 555 speed bender.


----------



## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Triple Nicole is a nice bender, not a big fan of the smarts they put in it, I like to control the bender old school


----------



## RaptorsSparky (Dec 26, 2018)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Don't waste time doing fancy calculations to get every thing just right.
> Do simple calculations do your bends accurately with enough pipe on ether side line up your offsets, saddles,90's or what ever you are bending how you want them to look and cut them to fit.
> ALWAYS set your 555 on a table it makes bending so much easier.
> 
> LC


This is the best way to bend pipe!


----------



## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

eddy current said:


> 360max said:
> 
> 
> > put the level on the conduit in the floor to check for level than the verticals stub, it’s the only way for a perfect 90. Sometimes even use a 2’square
> ...


 That's exactly what I do as well.
We learned to do small pipe quickly and accurately without levels because this was before scissor lifts were so common, and when your journeyman was was up 4 or more sections of scaffold and you were doing the bending on the floor, it better be right the first time if you didn't want to get it chucked back at your head. Learned to follow directions and communicate clearly as well.
We used a Greenlee Flip Top a ton for up to 2" and I got really good on it. Used two torpedo levels for offsets. 90's were a bit tricky, but depending on the brand of pipe, springback wasn't too bad.


----------

