# IBEW Work - Will I have trouble?



## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

It depends. Not all Unions are the same.

Your work ethic would probably work good for you, in a construction field, working for a decent Union contractor.

Your work ethic would not be desired in a plant type environment, by other union brothers.

FWIW, I'm a die hard non-union guy, who has worked for a couple different unions, and who can speak for himself.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

As with any situation anywhere, it all depends on how you handle the situation. Tact and social grace will carry you further, no one likes to have their face rubbed in the fact they've been outdone. If you maintain friendly interactions, stay in your lane and DON'T put you (or your work) above anyone else's, you should be fine. 

What I mean specifically is this: I've worked with guys that would consistently outperform the other crews but we're doing so by squirreling away tools/materials for themselves or not sharing information. Basically, they were sacrificing the whole team for their singular success. 

Anybody would love to have the person on their team who is always positive and in a good mood who is results oriented operating for the good of the team and doesn't sharpshoot their coworkers.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Might take some slack as being a rocket, but the pay, benefits, and pension will help your skin grow thicker. If you work steady towards a pension, the earlier you will retire. The only guys trying to talk you out of joining are who? That's what I thought.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

When I worked for the union in Ottawa hard work was the norm. Only 
guys who usually worked slow were ones that were hired for that job 
and new they wouldn't be kept on after that. They were a minority and 
got little respect. 
I've heard the big jobs are a whole different world. Guys that were at 
Darlington said 20-40' conduit in a day was normal. Those are usually 
OT jobs too. Any wonder a nuke plant is nearly 20 Billion these days? 
P&L


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Btw, there are so many guys out there in the union with good work ethics and pride in their work that have a great respect for their other man. You won't be alone. The knowledge you will inherit from other guys that have been in the trade their whole career is pretty great. Don't ever judge a book by its cover. Some of the most eccentric guys you will work with, will show you a easier way, or a method you have never seen. This should be exciting.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

PlugsAndLights said:


> When I worked for the union in Ottawa hard work was the norm. Only
> guys who usually worked slow were ones that were hired for that job
> and new they wouldn't be kept on after that. They were a minority and
> got little respect.
> ...


Kinda random but I worked with a traveler that mostly worked in nuke plants. I'm no pipe master but I was not impressed with his pipe work, and since I was paired with him I did my best to show him easier, faster methods for running decent looking pipe because my name was on it too. This was a few months ago. 

We'd been on the same site but on different projects since. I stopped by where he was working last week and he said he'd used everything I taught him, his piped looked great, consistent bends, all uniform and spaced evenly.

I think he's just shipped back out to where he's from but it felt good to be able to pass what I knew along. There's always room for improvement but a lot of guy's egos can get in the way just because they're a journeyman.


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## spinninwheels (Oct 28, 2012)

The last union job I was on, there were slackers, but there was also a _culling_, so to speak. The dead weight was let go.

It was a big job. Lots of knowledge. Lots of hard workers with the same ethic as yours.

Don't let others' options influence your view on a workplace you haven't yet experienced. Not everyone sees through the same looking glass.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

If you're outperforming your peers while giving the same amount of effort I wouldn't worry about it. If you're outperforming your peers because you break your back trying to be a hero all day you'll probably have problems. If you're joining as an apprentice you're best bet is to spend your time learning the trade and not concerning yourself with how much pipe you can hang in a day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

quarky2001 said:


> Question for all the IBEW members on here.
> 
> I've only ever worked non-union, and I'm curious about joining, however some coworkers have told me that many of my attributes might make me poorly suited for it.
> 
> ...


This isnt the 1970s.
You will do just fine.
We work hard, aren't afraid to get dirty and go home tired. 
I think someone is trying keep you down.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

being from both sides of the fence ican tell you that you will get the same help, the same obstacles, the same naysayers, the same pranksters, the same dumb bosses, the same good bosses, etc, etc. going union with the right group will be plus! good luck


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Shop Rocket in the making!


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## chadnodine (Dec 14, 2016)

Better slow down! You will work yourself out of a job! Here's my IBEW story. My Dad owns a union company in Atlanta and has now for almost 50 years. I was a 5th year apprentice working for my Dad and at the end of the 5th year the President of the JATC in ATL would not allow me to graduate unless I repeated my 5th year. I had gone over one day missing 4 classes the entire year and had an 85 grade. Well, because of his arrogance I quit and started a non union shop! He had it out for me and my fathers company. 


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

chadnodine said:


> Better slow down! You will work yourself out of a job! Here's my IBEW story. My Dad owns a union company in Atlanta and has now for almost 50 years. I was a 5th year apprentice working for my Dad and at the end of the 5th year the President of the JATC in ATL would not allow me to graduate unless I repeated my 5th year. I had gone over one day missing 4 classes the entire year and had an 85 grade. Well, because of his arrogance I quit and started a non union shop! He had it out for me and my fathers company.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm sure there's more to your story than what you've divulged. The worst place for any apprentice to work and learn is in the same shop his daddy owns. I'm sure your being there regardless came with the understanding that the rules would apply to you just same and no leeway would be given should you fail to pull your own weight and fulfill your apprenticeship obligations.

In a small shop I left in December '15 the boss got his own son, a 1st year greenie, into his own shop. Knowing the owner as I did I know it was a big mistake, that he'd let his spoiled little brat of a kid get away with anything. I dropped the dime along with 2 other journeymen that the kid was lucky to show up for work more than 2 times a week, despite getting full 35 hour paychecks, and also that he was being assigned to work on street projects even though apprentices are forbidden from working on the streets. 

The local ended up yanking him out and putting him in a real world environment. He took too many days off and now has to repeat 1st year.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I'm sure there's more to your story than what you've divulged. The worst place for any apprentice to work and learn is in the same shop his daddy owns. I'm sure your being there regardless came with the understanding that the rules would apply to you just same and no leeway would be given should you fail to pull your own weight and fulfill your apprenticeship obligations.
> 
> In a small shop I left in December '15 the boss got his own son, a 1st year greenie, into his own shop. Knowing the owner as I did I know it was a big mistake, that he'd let his spoiled little brat of a kid get away with anything. I dropped the dime along with 2 other journeymen that the kid was lucky to show up for work more than 2 times a week, despite getting full 35 hour paychecks, and also that he was being assigned to work on street projects even though apprentices are forbidden from working on the streets.
> 
> The local ended up yanking him out and putting him in a real world environment. He took too many days off and now has to repeat 1st year.




Working in a family business is only so good for so long. It isn't easy on either generation. I worked in family business until I was old enough to go elsewhere, yes I came back when asked a few times but for projects outside the general work area and just for those jobs. The worst part as an apprentice is the ribbing about you being the bosses relative, it's rare to get a fair chance from the older guys.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Being fast because you are organized and efficient is great and nobody should bust your chops about that. Being fast to make an impression and taking short cuts isn't good for anyone.

Do everything to the best of your ability and give it your all and you should do fine in any shop. Union or otherwise.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

In my 3rd year of a 4 year vocational HS. School got me a summer job w/ a large EC.

My first task was measuring and tagging short runs of wire in the warehouse. After about 3 days the truck driver told me I needed to slow down. And he wasn't kidding. 

Our company was union but the warehouse wasn't. That was my first taste of the real world.

After graduation I tried to join the union but was repeatedly turned down. I did get promoted to electrical draftsman. Shortly after I did 8 years in the Navy.

For the last 46 years I have been supervising union electricians. Most of what the OP said was correct. I appreciated the good guys but couldn't do much to show my appreciation. True, during a RIF or due to safety violations, the bad guys were sent packing.

It's a fine line the newbies must walk.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

chadnodine said:


> Better slow down! You will work yourself out of a job! Here's my IBEW story. My Dad owns a union company in Atlanta and has now for almost 50 years. I was a 5th year apprentice working for my Dad and at the end of the 5th year the President of the JATC in ATL would not allow me to graduate unless I repeated my 5th year. I had gone over one day missing 4 classes the entire year and had an 85 grade. Well, because of his arrogance I quit and started a non union shop! He had it out for me and my fathers company.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What company? You can message me if you don't want to let it out.

BTW, I will be in Jacksonville Friday


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> For the last 46 years I have been supervising union electricians. Most of what the OP said was correct. *I appreciated the good guys but couldn't do much to show my appreciation. *True, during a RIF or due to safety violations, the bad guys were sent packing.


The company you worked for never paid an employee over scale?


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The company you worked for never paid an employee over scale?


No, even talking to my guys about anything serious had to go thru their steward.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> No, even talking to my guys about anything serious had to go thru their steward.


That is a sad note, I've had a good rapport with all but one of the bosses I've ever worked for. I can't honestly remember the last job where I only made scale.


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## ElectricMatt (Dec 29, 2016)

Let me preface this with, I don't know you or what your skill level is. I am simply making an observation based on personal experiences. 

I started non-union and worked with some really good guys at multiple shops. Like all open shops they spoke ill of the union. I made a move to the union based on a desire for knowledge, retirement, insurance, and pay . It has been one of the best decisions I have made in my professional life. 

I recommend that if you decide to do it, and for you and your family's sake, I hope you do... just go in with the mindset that you can always learn from others. I have learned from travelers and local hands alike. Each person I have worked with has afforded me the opportunity to find a new method. 

You may catch some flack from a few guys for being a rocket, as others have mentioned, but if you're a good hand it will show and you will gain the respect of your piers. 

I don't like slackers either, but unless I am running the job it's not my business to point them out. You have slackers in the union just like non-union. Don't stick your nose out to get cut off if you know what I mean. Go do a good job and you will be recognized and respected. 

Just curiosity are they bringing you in as a wireman or a CE/CW?


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## kg7879 (Feb 3, 2014)

It really comes down to your expectations.


The only advice I can give is this. Most nonunion guys join for the better pay and benefits. If it bothers you that your tool partner happens to be a little slower than you and gets paid the same but you improved your financial situation then I suggest you do not join because that makes zero sense to me. 

My suggestion if you do join, is don't worry about what anybody else is doing and let the contractor deal with productivity or the lack there of.


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## Islander (Jul 11, 2016)

PlugsAndLights said:


> ... I've heard the big jobs are a whole different world. Guys that were at
> Darlington said 20-40' conduit in a day was normal. Those are usually
> OT jobs too. Any wonder a nuke plant is nearly 20 Billion these days?
> P&L


From my experience, it is the larger jobs that have the lowest feet of pipe installed per day per electrician. Too much mucking about trying to get materials delivered; too many other trades in the way; and too many change of plans to accommodate the latest screwup by the architect/engineer/general foreman, or other higher up.


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## Islander (Jul 11, 2016)

To the original poster: I tend to agree with others - do your job the best that you can, but don't be an ass about it if you are faster than others. No one likes a [email protected]

I worked hard during my apprenticeship in a union company, and was maybe laid off for a grand total of 2 weeks in four years. I watched a lot of others (JM and apprentices) who were less motivated be laid off for weeks or months each year. 

There will be good bosses, mediocre bosses, and bosses you'd like to toss of the nearest scaffolding or balcony. Just like a non-union shop, I'm betting.

I have heard of non-union companies that match unions for pay, benefits, and pensions, but I think they may be few and far between. So, if those things are important to you, then by all means, join a union.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Islander said:


> To the original poster: I tend to agree with others - do your job the best that you can, but don't be an ass about it if you are faster than others. No one likes a [email protected]
> 
> *I worked hard during my apprenticeship in a union company, and was maybe laid off for a grand total of 2 weeks in four years. I watched a lot of others (JM and apprentices) who were less motivated be laid off for weeks or months each year. *
> 
> ...


Just because it's union doesn't mean there isn't some merit in who stays and who goes. :thumbsup:


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That is a sad note, I've had a good rapport with all but one of the bosses I've ever worked for. I can't honestly remember the last job where I only made scale.


War would break out if the guys would compare paychecks.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> War would break out if the guys would compare paychecks.


Most of the service level guys in every shop I've been in has made over scale and had better benefits than the work agreement required. Never saw any fights break out or anyone sharing their checks.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

When folks doing the same work get paid different somebody is going to feel bad. Just human nature.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

I worked out of Green Bay Area for starters. That is the main reason why there are three contractors instead of one under a families name. The owner went on vacation, and the brothers found out what each other's pay was. It didn't sit well amongst them so it spawned new business's.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Accuracy is a big plus . If you can install 50 of something in a day and everyone else is installing 30 but 20 of yours have to be reworked the contractor has not gained a thing. As a matter of fact he has lost. 
I do not know how it is other places but in my area the contractors have a 2 hour man.
That is someone that is so sorry that they don't even call the man The contractor pays the man 2 hours and the goes onto the next guy. 

LC


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## ElectricMatt (Dec 29, 2016)

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Accuracy is a big plus . If you can install 50 of something in a day and everyone else is installing 30 but 20 of yours have to be reworked the contractor has not gained a thing. As a matter of fact he has lost.
> 
> I do not know how it is other places but in my area the contractors have a 2 hour man.
> 
> ...




They call that spinning a guy in my area. Because you get rid of him so fast he is spinning right back around to the hall. 


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

A local is a small community, your reputation will arrive on the job about an hour ahead of you.
I had a guy come out on a job from the shop when I worked for another contractor, he was supposed to be a thrasher and able to do anything. I gave him a sheet, marked the floor for him and put him on some 5 X 3". Thrasher and Dasher, his apprentice put up 100s of feet of pipe. He was so proud. 
I checked on him the next morning and discovered he had forgot to drop off a 3" everywhere I had marked. 
Found out he was a pill head and somehow related to the shop VP.
Somehow, he was randomized that week and was never seen again. :whistling2:

My experience has been this; keep the guys well stocked with materials, all of the tools they need, provide the foreman with clear, updated information and expectations and the project will run like a fine oiled military operation.
The obligation of the supervision to provide the job with proper labor, materials and information cannot be understated.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Most of the service level guys in every shop I've been in has made over scale and had better benefits than the work agreement required. Never saw any fights break out or anyone sharing their checks.


It's a huge commitment for someone to run service. It can become your identity. You go everywhere, meet new people everyday, and have to be on top of your game every single day to be successful at it.
It's a whole other world. Very different than showing up with your lunchbox at 7 and walking out at 3:30. On the other hand, it's a very good way for a young journeyman to get an accelerated exposure to different types of work.
A service truck is a good way to blitz a job with one man that has all of the tools, ladders and paperwork knowledge.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> It's a huge commitment for someone to run service. It can become your identity. You go everywhere, meet new people everyday, and have to be on top of your game every single day to be successful at it.
> It's a whole other world. Very different than showing up with your lunchbox at 7 and walking out at 3:30. On the other hand, it's a very good way for a young journeyman to get an accelerated exposure to different types of work.
> A service truck is a good way to blitz a job with one man that has all of the tools, ladders and paperwork knowledge.


Very true. It was the getting out and meeting new people and seeing all the places that kept me interested. I miss that aspect of working the most.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Very true. It was the getting out and meeting new people and seeing all the places that kept me interested. I miss that aspect of working the most.


I don't think there is a block you can turn down without seeing a place you have worked at after a while.
It's also nice to get exposed to and have full access places that the average person would never be able to see or even know exist.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

Suncoast Power said:


> It's also nice to get exposed to and have full access places that the average person would never be able to see or even know exist.



Very true! I get a little jealous of some people's work pics because most of the facilities I have worked at you aren't allowed to have any type of recording devices. Nukes, bio-pharm, even industrial scale bakeries have all been very specific about that. 

One place in particular was so strict if you needed to document something (for engineering for example) they had a person that was the one credentialed person allowed to have a camera and even then a permit was required. 

Most non-trades people have no idea what I did as an electrician doing industrial work.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> I don't think there is a block you can turn down without seeing a place you have worked at after a while.
> *It's also nice to get exposed to and have full access places that the average person would never be able to see or even know exist.*


This is so true, like substations with the facade of houses or similar in city environments, or subterranean control rooms, the views from mechanical penthouses that are often spectacular, and then the list you compile of restaurants you'll never eat at again. My wife was often surprised at how many people knew me at various places we went in NYC from having done service calls.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> This is so true, like substations with the facade of houses or similar in city environments, or subterranean control rooms, the views from mechanical penthouses that are often spectacular, and then the list you compile of restaurants you'll never eat at again. My wife was often surprised at how many people knew me at various places we went in NYC from having done service calls.


True.
After years and years of service calls, it's just expected that you will inevitably see someone you know where ever you go.
Also,
Need to get in to see a specialist type Dr? No problem, just come in.
Need to park downtown? No problem
restaurants, done
Want to stay downtown for the night. Done.
Marina parking. Easy 
Must important of all;
Need to find a dumpster. Easy


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> True.
> After years and years of service calls, it's just expected that you will inevitably see someone you know where ever you go.
> Also,
> Need to get in to see a specialist type Dr? No problem, just come in.
> ...



Just made me think of being a test subject for the start up at an MRI install. I've had knees and legs done at most I've worked on when they were looking for victims I mean volunteers. Nothing like getting a $1000 test for free and the results on a DVD to take home.

I often used my card key or access codes to various locations to have the use of their restroom facilities.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Just made me think of being a test subject for the start up at an MRI install. I've had knees and legs done at most I've worked on when they were looking for victims I mean volunteers. Nothing like getting a $1000 test for free and the results on a DVD to take home.
> 
> I often used my card key or access codes to various locations to have the use of their restroom facilities.


Perks like that too.
And the rest rooms, nothing like walking into a property unstoppable not looking out of place, with great confidence to use the finest marble and polished wood stalls in town.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> Perks like that too.
> And the rest rooms, nothing like walking into a property unstoppable not looking out of place, with great confidence to use the finest marble and polished wood stalls in town.


More often than not I went to Verizon central stations but YES some stand alone lawyers offices have been on my list.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Suncoast Power said:


> My experience has been this; keep the guys well stocked with materials, all of the tools they need, provide the foreman with clear, updated information and expectations and the project will run like a fine oiled military operation.
> The obligation of the supervision to provide the job with proper labor, materials and information cannot be understated.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

What exactly is a shop rocket?


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## dreamcrusher28 (Oct 19, 2010)

We always called them shop mutts. Basically a contractors core guys that aren't getting laid off unless things get really, really slow.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

quarky2001 said:


> Question for all the IBEW members on here.
> In a nutshell, people have told me I'd get in trouble in the union (or at least with its members) because I walk too fast, work too quickly, and take issue with slackers. Is this true?


Things can be different shop to shop and local to local.
My experience is it's not at all how you are told.
It's a stereotype of the past.
I have worked on both sides. Not to start an arrangement, just my experience was the many of the non union got away with late starts, long breaks, and cutting out early. 

Many shops here if the contract and labor laws gives you 1 10 minute break and 30 minute lunch in 8 hours, well then that's all you get. At the start of the day people grab their tools, equipment, carts and roll off to work in very little time. Social time is basically before work, break times, and walking out. It tends to be full speed ahead. With a foreman questioning why you need to make a trip to get something. With a saying of "walk fast and look scared". The key is you always need to be moving. Even if you don't know what your doing for the day you will grab some cordless tools and roll out to the work area while you wait for your foreman.

It probably depends a lot on the labor market. Here there are about 1,000 JW's waiting for a job. It's nothing for a contractor to lay the poor performing and call more guys the next day. To take it a step further there are some that will break the rules to keep working (worms). Bringing tools the company should provide. Working more than their 8 for 8 hours. Taking furloughs. They tend to be the company shop rockets and the ones that put in their 8 hours get sent back to the hall near the end of the job. 

Union shops tend to run a tight ship, watch every minute, and lay you off like their ordering coffee. Non union can be more difficult to find qualified workers, then make sure they know what their doing. Also because some non union employers pay low wages they put up with low production and lower hours of actually working. 

Even doing union service work on a Sunday. You bet some customers are watching your crew, when each person is billing a few dollars a minute.

As far as not performing sometimes you don't have what's needed or work to do at that moment. Not your fault. If they have no other work for you then you need to look busy or be invisible.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> What exactly is a shop rocket?


Sounds like they may be the guys that actually care about how the company is doing and like working for their employer. 
Also sounds like it must piss a lot of "average" workers off.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I like shop rockets then. My kinda guys.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Originally Posted by Suncoast Power 

My experience has been this; keep the guys well stocked with materials, all of the tools they need, provide the foreman with clear, updated information and expectations and the project will run like a fine oiled military operation.
The obligation of the supervision to provide the job with proper labor, materials and information cannot be understated.

Very true. The longest, hardest day I ever worked was when all of the above weren't in order. Can't blame the worker if the boss didn't do his job.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> What exactly is a shop rocket?


Good workers.

Worms are suck ups that are willing to lower the bar and break with the contract if it made their masters happy. 

Like illegal immigrants.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Shop rockets tend to break the contract rules in order to get a leg up on the other brothers and sisters that play by the book. In a way stabbing every other member in the back to be favored by the employer.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

active1 said:


> Shop rockets tend to break the contract rules in order to get a leg up on the other brothers and sisters that play by the book. In a way stabbing every other member in the back to be favored by the employer.


I guess our definition of rockets differs. I've often seen just good workers referred to as rockets because they're efficient and dependable.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TGGT said:


> I guess our definition of rockets differs. I've often seen just good workers referred to as rockets because they're efficient and dependable.


I'm sure the definition has changed over time and also with location but it started off as a negative term. A guy that would blast off on his own disregarding the pace set by others and cutting corners.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Shop Rocket was always a negative term in my opinion.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

TGGT said:


> I guess our definition of rockets differs. I've often seen just good workers referred to as rockets because they're efficient and dependable.


This book would be an interesting read.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Suncoast Power said:


> A local is a small community, your reputation will arrive on the job about an hour ahead of you.
> I had a guy come out on a job from the shop when I worked for another contractor, he was supposed to be a thrasher and able to do anything. I gave him a sheet, marked the floor for him and put him on some 5 X 3". Thrasher and Dasher, his apprentice put up 100s of feet of pipe. He was so proud.
> I checked on him the next morning and discovered he had forgot to drop off a 3" everywhere I had marked.
> Found out he was a pill head and somehow related to the shop VP.
> ...


I hope your not just full of talk. My boss talks just like he is trying to do the "world for his men" . When it comes down to it, he leaves it all up for the guys in the field with the most experience. He was in the military too. Laughable. He asks the youngest guy who lacks anything his opinion. It's pretty anoying. Sometimes I wonder if he hears me on this site. We call him 1up cause his stories are always better than yours.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

John Valdes said:


> Shop Rocket was always a negative term in my opinion.


They never think for themselves. Just hammer out what they are told


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Let's slow down and back it up a bit. There are levels of rocket. I am not taking myself out of the running btw. There's guys that slap in the ugliest job out there quick. There are guys that are "yes" men. And, there are guys that they can send out alone to think for themself. Trust to make decisions, and install without it being suspect to inspectors. All of the above are journeyman qualities from a boss standpoint. But who likes being bothered all day long with crazy questions?


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

On new construction in the "old days" we constructed a plastic model of the project. It was accurate to 1/8" in every dimension.

It included everything which would be installed and the client would move a typical worker wit one arm in the air. They were looking for interference items. We had at least 10 modelers working full time for about 2 years. 

We moved the model to the jobsite at he start of construction. There were usually about 1000 union craftsmen on site for up to a year. All day long they would go to the model to take measurements, before they created a problem.

If something was installed wrong, even by a few inches, it was bad news and heads rolled.

Everything a craftsman need was on-site and readily available. We rented high ranger 27 lifts for a year. They were parked side by side in all directions so they didn't have to move.

With all of that, everybody was a "rocket" , I never heard a complaint from anybody the 9 months I looked after 300 E&I.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> On new construction in the "old days" we constructed a plastic model of the project. It was accurate to 1/8" in every dimension.
> 
> It included everything which would be installed and the client would move a typical worker wit one arm in the air. They were looking for interference items. We had at least 10 modelers working full time for about 2 years.
> 
> ...



Many things have changed in new construction and not for the better in the last couple decades.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

True, nowdays we don't do a plastic model, we do 3D cad drawings.

Try to put a piece of conduit a 1/2" out of place and you get all kinds of flags.

The client can go thru any door and "walk around" he will see every piece of equipment, pipe, duct, conduit etc.


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## Chalr (Dec 29, 2016)

Just work hard. And look out for your union brothers! And Stick together!

Sent from my SM-G900V


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