# Liability of Homeowner doing the finish



## StriickeN (Sep 11, 2017)

Nope.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

cgd68 said:


> What are your thoughts of a homeowner hiring a contractor for the rough-in, but wanting to do the finish? Liability? It seems to me that some of the most crucial parts of electrical work are the connections. Thoughts?


The permit is in your company name. You finish it. It's your name on it. Otherwise call and cancel the permit.

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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> The permit is in your company name. You finish it. It's your name on it. Otherwise call and cancel the permit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Close permit after rough-in inspection. Still sketchy. I don't like it.


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## UncleMike (Jan 2, 2013)

I would about the situation if you know about it beforehand. If you've already gotten the permit I would tell the AHJ that the homeowner has told you to stop work and see what's they can do to disassociate you from the remaining work.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

We normally talk the homeowner into us doing it. We tell them their home insurance might not cover them and blah blah blah. Usually that's enough. Otherwise yeah close the permit. We haven't had one yet That We had to close... We lost a job halfway through once... cancelled the permit on that one.


99cents said:


> Close permit after rough-in inspection. Still sketchy. I don't like it.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

Tell him to do the rough in as well.


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## cgd68 (May 29, 2012)

Uncle Mike, are you saying you would *avoid* the situation if you knew about it before hand?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Makes no difference to me whatsoever. I can't tell them how (or with whom) to spend their money. If it's a permitted job, I'll have it pulled or closed before finish. No big deal. And any invoicing will say rough only. I've never felt like work "belonged" to me. As long as I remove myself from any documentation related to finish work, I couldn't care less if BillyBob from down the street finished it or, indeed, if it never got finished. 

In reality, this has happened to me one time, and I get a call to finish most of it anyhow because they got confounded about a few things. No biggie.

I see my liability when the owner does the finish as being no greater than if an owner fussed with wiring after the fact in a home I did the rough and finish both on.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I did this once. The owner talked to me yesterday. He's selling the place and wants me to go in and fix all his violations  .


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

MDShunk said:


> I see my liability when the owner does the finish as being no greater than if an owner fussed with wiring after the fact in a home I did the rough and finish both on.


What we see, and what a jury see's as a responsible party, are two different things.

For liabilities sake, I wouldn't get involved with splitting responsibility with a homeowner.


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## UncleMike (Jan 2, 2013)

cgd68 said:


> Uncle Mike, are you saying you would *avoid* the situation if you knew about it before hand?


Yes (stupid autocorrect, and stupid me for not proofreading). Now that I think about it, I actually had this happen recently. It was subcontract work for a national provider, and the customer wanted rough-in only. Once I found out that I needed to get a permit under my own name (sometimes we do smaller jobs covered by an existing permit), I told them I had to do the complete install.

Now that I read @MDShunk's response, I would consider getting a permit for rough-in only.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Well, there goes the warranty.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

The more I hear some of the responses from _certain guys _
on this web site , the more I'm convinced that this is turning
into ET DIY hour.

Of course you don't get involved....and furthermore , if the HO signed
a contract with you to do the job (rough-in and finish) , then not
allowing you back for the finish is a "breach of contract"....too many
knuckleheads in this business allow people to roll right over them are
why we have these issues to begin with.

Grow a Pair.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

I have just cancelled the permit at rough-in and informed the owner he needs a finish permit as the inspection department will flag his property.

I don't need the problems of collecting money by doing it against his will.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Helmut said:


> What we see, and what a jury see's as a responsible party, are two different things.
> 
> For liabilities sake, I wouldn't get involved with splitting responsibility with a homeowner.


I guess if you're the type of person that sees the boogieman behind every tree, then you probably shouldn't. It would be impossible for anyone to come up with any tried case where an electrician was found liable for work he did not do. It would be difficult to come up with any case where an electrician was even tried on such a case. 

I'm not even remotely suggesting someone actively pursue this sort of work, but if it presented itself and it fit in the schedule (and it aligns with your comfort level), why not? 

When we take our cars in for annual state inspection and it fails for bad brakes, the mechanic will let you do your own brake job, bring the car back, and pay to have it reinspected. Same difference.


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

I've done it and may again

but it never seemed to work out well, no matter how through my roughin and in particular no matter how carefully I explain how to hook up 3/ways

I've avoided the situation a few times by making trim-out draw very low, so customer not saving much and let me do the full job


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## Galt (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't worry much about lawsuits because I think it is an awful way to live your life.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

readydave8 said:


> I've done it and may again
> 
> but it never seemed to work out well, no matter how through my roughin and in particular no matter how carefully I explain how to hook up 3/ways
> 
> I've avoided the situation a few times by making trim-out draw very low, so customer not saving much and let me do the full job


I certainly wouldn't try to teach a customer how to take work away from me.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

jw0445 said:


> I certainly wouldn't try to teach a customer how to take work away from me.


I wouldn't either, under most circumstances. It would mostly depend on my mood that day, to say it plainly.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I'd say the answer to this lies in the complexity of the job, as well as the price point.

If allowing anyone (contractor, homow, or handyman) to come after you on a non-turn key job opens up a can of worms (callbacks or backcharges for "stuff that wasn't wired right, wan't 100%, doesn't work, etc) and increases the aggravation factor, lawsuit factor, or just plain takes good money off the table, then maybe it's better to let someone else do the whole thing.

On the other hand, if its a slam it in, and good money, then the call is a no brainer.

So I'd say its a case by case call.

just my 02


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

I did a rough in years ago for someone. I got the impression he was going to do the finish himself and I wasn't going to be back. I left an extra black and white tail in one box on almost every circuit I ran and made up. Spliced them together with an orange and stuffed them way back in the box :whistling2:
As I suspected, never heard from them again :vs_laugh:


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

jw0445 said:


> I certainly wouldn't try to teach a customer how to take work away from me.


I want to be well paid for the work I do, and am OK with not being paid for the work I don't do


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

JoeSparky said:


> I did a rough in years ago for someone. I got the impression he was going to do the finish himself and I wasn't going to be back. I left an extra black and white tail in one box on almost every circuit I ran and made up. Spliced them together with an orange and stuffed them way back in the box :whistling2:
> As I suspected, never heard from them again :vs_laugh:


You were under the impression it was a rough-in only job?
If so , wow...jus wow.

If they hosed you down , breached contract then:vs_clap:


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

lighterup said:


> You were under the impression it was a rough-in only job?
> If so , wow...jus wow.
> 
> If they hosed you down , breached contract then:vs_clap:


No loss. Under the radar t&m job. Just a quickie 1 day job. It was a scumbag landlord who had a handyman doing an apartment gut renovation. They wanted me to tie the homeruns in on the rough in. I put the rest of the story together in my head and decided my spin on the glass in the chimney trick was appropriate:vs_laugh:
Bet it cost him large to find it :smile:


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

Helmut said:


> What we see, and what a jury see's as a responsible party, are two different things.
> 
> For liabilities sake, I wouldn't get involved with splitting responsibility with a homeowner.


That is exactly where the conversation starts and ends in my head.

The only word out of my mouth are "NONONONONONONONONONONO"


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

expect sp switches used for the 3 ways with the bond wire on one of the hot terminals taped on wire nuts at fixtures receptacles reverse polarity and bond wires not connected 
but it works


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