# Lotus Lights



## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Are they listed for 2 cables 1 in and one out ?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

99cents said:


> Yes.


Thanks as that is how I rough-in for them


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

electricguy said:


> Thanks as that is how I rough-in for them


Be careful, some inspectors check and ask to see the box/ bag of plastic connectors to check that they are rated for 1 or 2 cables.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

The_Modifier said:


> Be careful, some inspectors check and ask to see the box/ bag of plastic connectors to check that they are rated for 1 or 2 cables.


 Have a funny feeling the customer will supply "Commercial Electric " from the orange store think he said they are 50.00 each lol


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

electricguy said:


> Have a funny feeling the customer will supply "Commercial Electric " from the orange store think he said they are 50.00 each lol


They will get what they pay for. Just make SURE that you state in your quote "not responsible for warranty on client provided materials"


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

electricguy said:


> Have a funny feeling the customer will supply "Commercial Electric " from the orange store think he said they are 50.00 each lol


That's more than the real thing.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The Lithonias are cheaper and better than silly Lotus.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The Lithonias are cheaper and better than silly Lotus.


Says the voice of experience :whistling2:


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Hack will probably shake his head as the ceiling is open atm


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

*D*



99cents said:


> Says the voice of experience :whistling2:


Lotus screwed the pooch. How many years have they been out there? Yet I still can't get them other then ordering them off the Internet for $60 each. 

Lithonia has been out for a couple months and they are already at every supply house and Home Depot. The specs are the same but the price is much better, around $35.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The Lithonias are cheaper and better than silly Lotus.





HackWork said:


> Lotus screwed the pooch. How many years have they been out there? Yet I still can't get them other then ordering them off the Internet for $60 each.
> 
> Lithonia has been out for a couple months and they are already at every supply house and Home Depot. The specs are the same but the price is much better, around $35.


Wow, we had to drag you kicking and screaming out of the dark ages before you would even try them. Now you're saying they're silly even though you haven't even seen one.

Where do I start?

* You order half your stuff online anyway. Now you're whining about buying 
online.
* Your old, senile inspectors didn't like them.
* If you mark up material 20%, Lithonia just screwed you out of six bucks per 
fixture.
* Lotus has contractor friendly pricing. Now that Lithonia is selling their 
knockoffs for cheap at HD, they have screwed you out of even more money.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Lotus screwed the pooch. How many years have they been out there? Yet I still can't get them other then ordering them off the Internet for $60 each.
> 
> Lithonia has been out for a couple months and they are already at every supply house and Home Depot. The specs are the same but the price is much better, around $35.



Do you have a link for the Lithonia? Cant seem to find anyone stocking any type of Lotus style light here.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Wow, we had to drag you kicking and screaming out of the dark ages before you would even try them. Now you're saying they're silly even though you haven't even seen one.
> 
> Where do I start?
> 
> ...


Dude, as usual you are acting like a ******. Lithonia screwed me out of $6 per fixture? That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. The truth is that I can now still charge the customer for the $60 fixture while paying $35, making an extra $25 each.

I order things online when it;s cheaper. But now I can buy a better product in the supply house on the spot for $25 less. Win win.

What's even funnier is how you call Lithonia a knockoff. The truth is that everyone sees Lotus as a no-name brand that sells knockoffs while Lithonia invented these. Every American knows Lithonia, none know Lotus other than a few who saw them on this forum.

I am not going to let you ruin yet another thread with your childishness and idiocy so I will give you the last word that you want so badly.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> Do you have a link for the Lithonia? Cant seem to find anyone stocking any type of Lotus style light here.


 http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/wf4+downlight.html

Great deal on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Lithonia-Lighting-WF4-LED-30K/dp/B01N9X6YII


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Dude, as usual you are acting like a ******. Lithonia screwed me out of $6 per fixture? That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. The truth is that I can now still charge the customer for the $60 fixture while paying $35, making an extra $25 each.
> 
> I order things online when it;s cheaper. But now I can buy a better product in the supply house on the spot for $25 less. Win win.
> 
> ...


Huh? You're the child who called them silly. You didn't think I would react?

What you're saying is bizarre. Lotus Lights were invented in Canada years ago. Now that Lithonia has copied them, you're saying they invented them. :no:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> What you're saying is bizarre. Lotus Lights were invented in Canada years ago. Now that Lithonia has copied them, you're saying they invented them. :no:


Americans have no idea who Lotus Lighting is. For all intents and purposes, Lithonia (the giant brand name) invented these lights. 

While you may know the truth, no one here is going to consider these knockoffs. If an electrician actually sees a Lotus in the next few months, they are going to call it a Lithonia knockoff.

My point is that Lotus screwed up. If they got their product out there years ago (when they were available to Canadians) for a good price, they could have taken the market. Now it's all Lithonia.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Hack, you're telling me you will base your price on a product that apparently is unavailable yet the product you actually use is on the HD site for half the price.

Yeah, okay.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Americans have no idea who Lotus Lighting is. For all intents and purposes, Lithonia (the giant brand name) invented these lights.
> 
> While you may know the truth, no one here is going to consider these knockoffs. If an electrician actually sees a Lotus in the next few months, they are going to call it a Lithonia knockoff.
> 
> My point is that Lotus screwed up. If they got their product out there years ago (when they were available to Canadians) for a good price, they could have taken the market. Now it's all Lithonia.


Then make your point without lying. Lithonia didn't invent them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Hack, you're telling me you will base your price on a product that apparently is unavailable yet the product you actually use is on the HD site for half the price.
> 
> Yeah, okay.


No, I am telling you that your assertion that I will lose money because I can get a product cheaper is absolutely fu*ktarded and I hate when you say crazy things like that because I know you're not stupid.



> * If you mark up material 20%, Lithonia just screwed you out of six bucks per fixture.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> Then make your point without lying. Lithonia didn't invent them.


I didn't lie, you just didn't comprehend the words.



> What's even funnier is how you call Lithonia a knockoff. *The truth is that everyone sees Lotus as a no-name brand that sells knockoffs while Lithonia invented these*. Every American knows Lithonia, none know Lotus other than a few who saw them on this forum.


Read the entire sentence and focus on the underlined words.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

What I'm doing now is giving customers the choice between Lotus and the knockoffs. Since Lotus gives me preferred contractor pricing, it's in my best interest to sell Lotus. I like to support someone who supports me as a contractor. HD isn't even in that conversation. Besides that, I believe in Lotus quality.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> What I'm doing now is giving customers the choice between Lotus and the knockoffs. Since Lotus gives me preferred contractor pricing, it's in my best interest to sell Lotus. I like to support someone who supports me as a contractor. HD isn't even in that conversation. Besides that, I believe in Lotus quality.


That's great, and hopefully Lotus keeps you happy because they missed the bus in America and I see that even all the Canadians are looking for knockoffs since Lotus prices are still too high. 

$50 says Lotus is out of business by this time next year.

I was very surprised this morning to see that Amazon sells the brand name Lithonia's for $21, that's a great deal.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> That's great, and hopefully Lotus keeps you happy because they missed the bus in America and I see that even all the Canadians are looking for knockoffs since Lotus prices are still too high.
> 
> $50 says Lotus is out of business by this time next year.
> 
> I was very surprised this morning to see that Amazon sells the brand name Lithonia's for $21, that's a great deal.


I'll take your fifty bucks. Lotus has already quietly gotten into value brand marketing.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I'll take your fifty bucks. Lotus has already quietly gotten into value brand marketing.


Yeah, I know, I told you about it. 

But even their economy line isn't anywhere near $21 US.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I'll give you one thing - there are inventors and there are copiers. Leviton is a good example. I know the company well. Their corporate philosophy is not to waste money inventing things. They just wait for the market to develop and jump in afterwards. Often the inventor doesn't have the wheels and market penetration to keep up.

If Lotus is an inventor, they need to keep inventing. It becomes a loser's game after the market is saturated.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I know a company (I won't name names) who started out in Canada with two guys building things in a garage. It might have been fifteen years before a big American manufacturer bought them. That was a nice pay day. Maybe that will happen with Lotus.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Why would someone buy the Lotus company now? What I have been saying is that it's seems like it's too late for them.

Right now there are no-name brands in supply houses and big box stores and a big name brand selling them for a great price. 

Lotus should have patented the design and pushed it in the US (with a better price) a few years ago.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Why would someone buy the Lotus company now? What I have been saying is that it's seems like it's too late for them.
> 
> Right now there are no-name brands in supply houses and big box stores and a big name brand selling them for a great price.
> 
> Lotus should have patented the design and pushed it in the US (with a better price) a few years ago.


I have cashed cheques from Emerson, Cooper and Juno. Have you?

These companies grow through acquisition. Acuity Brands (Lithonia) is a good example.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> I have cashed cheques from Emerson, Cooper and Juno. Have you?
> 
> These companies grow through acquisition. Acuity Brands (Lithonia) is a good example.


I asked a very simple question, _why would someone buy the Lotus company now_? 

Companies, both small and large, already have the products on the shelves right this second. Why would someone buy some Canadian company that sells the product for 3 times as much yet has zero name recognition?

Instead of telling me your check cashing status, why not tell me the reasons why it would happen?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I asked a very simple question, _why would someone buy the Lotus company now_?
> 
> Companies, both small and large, already have the products on the shelves right this second. Why would someone buy some Canadian company that sells the product for 3 times as much yet has zero name recognition?
> 
> Instead of telling me your check cashing status, why not tell me the reasons why it would happen?


Market penetration, personnel, product development, name brand recognition, manufacturing capabilities, lots of reasons. Lithonia bought Peerless, a Canadian manufacturer of fluorescent products, when Lithonia already had duplicate manufacturing and a strong distribution channel.

Sometimes these guys set aside money in the budget for acquisition and just go shopping.

I was involved with a company that was acquired by Tyco. Tyco sewered the company just to get rid of them, fired the employees, shut down manufacturing and never incorporated a single product into their offering.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I read an article about the guy who invented and patented the selfie stick. Millions, if not billions, of dollars have been made on selfie sticks but he saw little of it. He said he would always take a name brand over a patent since name brands can have staying power. Patents can be broken and have a limited life span.

Just some interesting trivia  .


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

electricguy said:


> Hack will probably shake his head as the ceiling is open atm


What the **** would make you want to use Lotus in new construction. Do you think the customer really wants shower trims installed all over? Do they even make a rough in bracket?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> What the **** would make you want to use Lotus in new construction. Do you think the customer really wants shower trims installed all over? Do they even make a rough in bracket?


Yes.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

sbrn33 said:


> What the **** would make you want to use Lotus in new construction. Do you think the customer really wants shower trims installed all over? Do they even make a rough in bracket?


My first experience with Lotus lights was when a customer wanted 
them in his new house. Fairly big place and I put in more than a 
hundred. Wouldn't be my choice. As I sometimes say to customers
"you can light your house with hundreds of flashlights if you want". 
I like indirect light, but that isn't in style. So, try to steer them in a
sensible direction, then give'm what they want. 
P&L


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I use a halo with a 30wat and an LED lamp. This way if one goes bad you are not stuck out there with no matching replacement when a lotus or a knockoff goes bad. Still less than 30 bucks. 
Plus I don't know if I mentioned it yet but the Lotus look like shower lights.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Most people never look at their ceiling or their lights, only we do.


ETA: There's a big difference now. In the past I had to tell a customer that the Lotus style LED lights were going to cost $44 more than the normal style recessed lights with LED trim. So it was hard to sell them on a flush non-recessed light that had no other benefit.

Now, since I can get the Lithonia's for $21 (the same price as a recessed can and LED trim) I can tell the customer that installing the Lotus style lights will be a little bit cheaper. It won't be much cheaper, but I won't let the customer know that. The easier installation will warrant a few bucks less on labor cost.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Cans are faster if the ceiling's open because the mouth breathers cut the holes.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

After installing the lithonias on a job, I am a fan. Not going to bother with the lotuses, as they cost so much more, and no one stocks them.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> After installing the lithonias on a job, I am a fan. Not going to bother with the lotuses, as they cost so much more, and no one stocks them.


I'd like to see the inside of both drivers. I wonder how they compare quality wise.


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## 6 shooter (Feb 4, 2008)

Has anyone installed them in a suspended ceiling? I wonder if they would work cut into a regular ceiling tile?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

6 shooter said:


> Has anyone installed them in a suspended ceiling? I wonder if they would work cut into a regular ceiling tile?


They work great.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

i finally ordered a couple of the Lithonia lights and installed them on Friday

wow....fast and easy....not a fan of the look of them but theyre definitely something Ill use again depending on the situation....and at less than $22 a light, theyre close to what I would pay for a can, trim and bulb, but the labor savings is worth the extra cost


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Yeah, being available on Amazon prime for such a low price makes them the best bet.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, being available on Amazon prime for such a low price makes them the best bet.


except now the price has increased substantially 

I could buy Lotus for about the same price locally


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> except now the price has increased substantially
> 
> I could buy Lotus for about the same price locally


Yeah, I noticed that and I wasn't happy. The 6" models went up to $59.99, but today they are at $51.99. I bought them a couple weeks ago for $26.

The 4" models went up to $30, which isn't terrible. But I am still not happy with it. There are so many different no-name models available for very cheap that we shouldn't have to deal with Amazon gouging us.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, I noticed that and I wasn't happy. The 6" models went up to $59.99, but today they are at $51.99. I bought them a couple weeks ago for $26.
> 
> The 4" models went up to $30, which isn't terrible. But I am still not happy with it. There are so many different no-name models available for very cheap that we shouldn't have to deal with Amazon gouging us.


its your duty now to find somewhere for me to order some cheap since I might start using them for when I do screen porches and Im dealing with 2x6 framing which is really 5 1/4"


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

just found them on 1000bulbs.com for $29.99


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Been getting the different sizes in the mid $30 range from the supply house.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> just found them on 1000bulbs.com for $29.99


6"?

I figure I will just stick to the 4", they are pretty bright.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> 6"?
> 
> I figure I will just stick to the 4", they are pretty bright.


yep 6"

4" are $26.99 but they charge shipping


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Lithonia on Amazon are back down a bit. The 6" went from $26 to $60 to $51 and now they are down to $30. The 4" went from $21 to $30 and are now at $27. 

I installed some 6 inchers yesterday, I have been happy with them, but I hate that cable. I don't want the light swinging around while I wire up the driver so I cut the cable.


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## BlackHowling (Feb 27, 2013)

My brother-in-law is getting me to put these in for him so I'll take some before/after photos. Costco btw









Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

There are a LOT of different knockoff brands out there. If you look at Amazon, there has got to be 20 of them. Every supply house has a different brand.

BlackHowling, those that you pictured go against the whole point of these types of lights since they are thick with the junction box on the back. You want the ones that are only 1/2" thick with the separate driver/junction box. This makes it so much easier since you don't have to look for joists. You literally just drill your hole anywhere, if it lands on a joist, who cares.

Tell him to return those and get the Lotus since you should have cheap access to them in Canada.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Can someone please post a direct link to Lotus Lights. I still don't know exactly what they look like.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

3DDesign said:


> Can someone please post a direct link to Lotus Lights. I still don't know exactly what they look like.


just picture an LED retro trim with a junction box attached by a cable


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

3DDesign said:


> Can someone please post a direct link to Lotus Lights. I still don't know exactly what they look like.


Just think about what a shower can looks like.....


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## BlackHowling (Feb 27, 2013)

HackWork said:


> There are a LOT of different knockoff brands out there. If you look at Amazon, there has got to be 20 of them. Every supply house has a different brand.
> 
> BlackHowling, those that you pictured go against the whole point of these types of lights since they are thick with the junction box on the back. You want the ones that are only 1/2" thick with the separate driver/junction box. This makes it so much easier since you don't have to look for joists. You literally just drill your hole anywhere, if it lands on a joist, who cares.
> 
> Tell him to return those and get the Lotus since you should have cheap access to them in Canada.


These are what my local supply houses stock. 36$ a piece. If I want lotus I have to drive 2 hours away for them and last time I got a price on them it was 50$ from torbram









Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

sbrn33 said:


> Just think about what a shower can looks like.....


I was looking for a Link. Everything time I do a search, I get a retrofit trim.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

www.lotusledlights.com


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

electricguy said:


> Are they listed for 2 cables 1 in and one out ?


Thanks Blackhowling for the update 
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f31/low-profile-lights-cable-restriction-205769/#post3897985


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## LuckyLuke (Jun 1, 2015)

BlackHowling said:


> My brother-in-law is getting me to put these in for him so I'll take some before/after photos. Costco btw
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have had issues with Luminus LEDs from Costco (haven't tried that specific one though), returned most of them due to flickering and doubt I would try them again.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

That isnt the same as the lotus thin light


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