# Where your dollars go



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

For those of you that are IBEW members that may have a more middle of the road or conservative political stance check Number Two and see where your dollars go.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/toppacs.php


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## headrec (Feb 25, 2008)

Wow...

Good to know I guess, well maybe not.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm a middle-of-the-road kind of guy,

likes alot of what both sides have to say...
dis-likes alot of what both sides have done...

But I've got to say, that unionfacts website is a ton of garbage!!


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Interestingly, it shows that only 2% of the IBEW is republican. That's the first time I've ever read that, I believe. I'd have guessed it to be low in that regard, but not that low. In my area, IBEW membership is pretty close to 50/50 rep/dem in my observation.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Yeah it's definitely not 2% here either, more like 60D/40R.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

This is because the R or D members pay their dues and the IBEW as a whole gives their money to the democrates. It's another reason I dislike the union......


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

IN general if you look at the list most/ALL unions give to the Dems and then wonder why the reps do little for them. The SMART PACs hedge their bets and give close to equally to both sides. Can any union members tell me one thing the Dems have done for them for all the millions they have recieved?

When you walk lock step with one party and give in the percentages the unions do to the Dems, the Dems know the unions are in their pocket and do not have to do anything for the money.


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

brian john said:


> IN general if you look at the list most/ALL unions give to the Dems and then wonder why the reps do little for them. The SMART PACs hedge their bets and give close to equally to both sides. Can any union members tell me one thing the Dems have done for them for all the millions they have recieved?
> 
> When you walk lock step with one party and give in the percentages the unions do to the Dems, the Dems know the unions are in their pocket and do not have to do anything for the money.


well, buying politicians is not always a good value, and the chant for
mindless party affiliation in organized labor dates to the roosevelt coalition.

me? i registered as a cooperative anarchist.....:icon_wink:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

FulThrotl said:


> me? i registered as a .....:icon_wink:


Funny. Is that a real party? 

I'm registered communist (as a joke originally, but I left it that way), believe mostly libertarian, but mostly vote republican. As a result, I get really interesting junk mail.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Funny. Is that a real party?
> 
> I'm registered communist (as a joke originally, but I left it that way), believe mostly libertarian, but mostly vote republican. As a result, I get really interesting junk mail.


I wrote you in for president in the last election.


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## sherman (Sep 29, 2008)

brian john said:


> IN general if you look at the list most/ALL unions give to the Dems and then wonder why the reps do little for them. The SMART PACs hedge their bets and give close to equally to both sides. Can any union members tell me one thing the Dems have done for them for all the millions they have recieved?
> 
> When you walk lock step with one party and give in the percentages the unions do to the Dems, the Dems know the unions are in their pocket and do not have to do anything for the money.


That is absolutely false in my area. The polititions pay back with jobs for members remember Davis-Bacon act? Bringing home the Bacon?


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## sherman (Sep 29, 2008)

Right now Democrat is where its at baby. Just turn on your television and weep if you are a republican. Your worst nightmare is arriving soon. The country has been driven into the ground from republicans 8 years of wont raise taxes they will just borrow more which is worse.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I voted for the other guy.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sherman said:


> Right now Democrat is where its at baby. Just turn on your television and weep if you are a republican. Your worst nightmare is arriving soon. The country has been driven into the ground from republicans 8 years of wont raise taxes they will just borrow more which is worse.


This is not my worse nightmare, the American system works and the man with the most votes won, now it is his turn to take on some real problems generated more by Congress with GB signing everything put in front of him.

But who wants to pay more taxes, no matter how much you pay the government will spend/over spend and in the end they want more. From what I hear you (being from NY state) pay a far more percentage of taxes than I do, do you get your money's worth?

As for davis bacon there is the thought that this drives up taxes which you have to pay for, so for some extra work you pay more in taxes, sort of a win lose situation.


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## sherman (Sep 29, 2008)

brian john said:


> This is not my worse nightmare, the American system works and the man with the most votes won, now it is his turn to take on some real problems generated more by Congress with GB signing everything put in front of him.
> 
> But who wants to pay more taxes, no matter how much you pay the government will spend/over spend and in the end they want more. From what I hear you (being from NY state) pay a far more percentage of taxes than I do, do you get your money's worth?
> 
> As for davis bacon there is the thought that this drives up taxes which you have to pay for, so for some extra work you pay more in taxes, sort of a win lose situation.


As for the davis bacon act there is a thought that the money is going more to the workers than the owner of a company. And the workers will spend this money on goods and services creating a multiplier effect. I trust this thought more than no bid contracts to halliburten.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sherman said:


> As for the davis bacon act there is a thought that the money is going more to the workers than the owner of a company. And the workers will spend this money on goods and services creating a multiplier effect. I trust this thought more than no bid contracts to halliburten.


How do you figure that???? The owner makes a certain percentage on material and wages If he makes 10% on $20.00 an hour he pockets $2.00 if he has a DB job where he is mandated to pay 30.00 he'll make $3.00.

While certain groups would like to limits profits that is yet to be enforced. Maybe the socalist will win in the end and we'll go the route of the other socalist countries in the world DOWN in flames.

As for Haliburten, republicans have their favorites and the democrats have theirs, we just trraded one for the other. Ever wonder how congressmen become millioniares. The current salary (2009, they took a raise this year) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year. They do their buddies favors.


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## New Jersey Frank (Jan 28, 2009)

*Nebf*

Can anyone tell me why we pay into NEBF?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

New Jersey Frank said:


> Can anyone tell me why we pay into NEBF?


If you are a Union EC you pay 3% into it on your employees behalf...if you are a JW affiliated with the IBEW, it is paid into for you by the EC.



> The National Electrical Benefit Fund is a Taft-Hartley, multi-employer, defined benefit pension plan that provides retirement benefits and related benefits to employees in the electrical industry. Click the "Enter" button to learn more about the Fund, details about retiring and much more.


http://www.nebf.com/


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

When Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors for Wal-Mart, (she worked for Wal-Mart as chief council) she was instrumental in keeping the unions out. The democrats talk a good game but in reality the only difference between the parties is one side pretends to care while the other side just stopped pretending. Both sides only care about two things, money and power.


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## cmec (Feb 11, 2008)

PhatElvis said:


> When Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors for Wal-Mart, (she worked for Wal-Mart as chief council) she was instrumental in keeping the unions out. The democrats talk a good game but in reality the only difference between the parties is one side pretends to care while the other side just stopped pretending. Both sides only care about two things, money and power.


AMEN

And slick willie and the republican congress gave away our industry thru the china deal, indian deal and nafta, Forceing us to compete with countries that dont have our standards, with no safety or limit restrictions.

When I see any of thease people back in DC it makes me nervous.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

And now a senator FORGOT (?) to pay $138,000.00 in taxes for a gift he received. How many of you receive a gift large enough to generate those kind of taxes from a FRIEND. 

Friend= buy my loyalty

Let me see a Republican leaves a pubic hair on a Coke can and he is lambasted, 2 Democrats leave several $100,000.00 of taxes unpaid and get a pass.

Big O said he would run a HONEST administration seems to be getting off on the right foot (?)


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

[soap box] 

You can blame politicians all you for our financial woes the but bottom line is the American people are to blame for our own problems. We live in a Walmart culture financed on credit, we want more, we want it cheap, and we want it now, bill us later. 

Our government are a bunch or crooks who rob Peter to pay Paul and therefore can always count on the support of Paul and they spend up all the tax money then borrow as much as they can backed in treasury bonds bought up by people like the Chinese who happen to have a bunch of money from selling us cheap crap. If we put tariffs on foreign goods or work out protectionist laws the people that own our debt (who happen to be foreign too) that we foolishly sold to them will call their notes and punish us, so we just blame the politicians say it cant be helped and keep doing the same old crap. 

It just amazes me that when the recession first hit, the big problem that the politicians keep saying was going to hurt us all was the lack of credit. If the lack of credit is our economic down fall then what does that say about us? 

Then Bush gives the banks a bunch of money to fix it or something and NOTHING happens except now the CEOs of big banks will get bonus this year. What really needs to happen and what still is not happening is lots of public building programs. If the government pumped billions into our construction industries and let the working class get back to work, THAT would make a difference. THAT would put money in the economy. But don’t hold your breath, the Dems are only different than the Reps in rhetoric they are just the other side of the same face we call government, and the only money they are going to spend will be on themselves and pork. Besides most Americans don’t really want to know how to work their way out of this, they just want it to go back like it was before, after Congress and Obama pass some magic bill, print some more money and sell some more worthless bonds.

You can not borrow your way to prosperity, you have to work your way there. 

[/soap box]


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

> You can blame politicians all you for our financial woes the but bottom line is the American people are to blame for our own problems. We live in a Walmart culture financed on credit, we want more, we want it cheap, and we want it now, bill us later.


I do not shop Walmart (except once a year for fishing license and now I can get that online), I have little debt, I want more but try to buy from local vendors supporting the local economy in lieu of the Internet when possible and pay cash.

The bill for this bailout will come due and we will be in deep doo doo then with no way to bail out the bail out.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Again, as always ,I voted for the winner.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Again, as always ,I voted for the winner.


Well with this bailout you cannot believe it is US (the winners)


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## SmithBuilt (Jan 9, 2009)

brian john said:


> The bill for this bailout will come due and we will be in deep doo doo then with no way to bail out the bail out.




That is my biggest concern. We will never be able to repay the countries that loan us this money. 

I'm a republican but O is the pres now and I'm trying really hard to stand behind him. I do not believe this bailout is the right thing to do. It is not going to produce even close to enough jobs to save the economy and it will end up costing us way more than doing nothing. 

I would support O completely if he would grow a backbone and do what he said in the election "change". Right now he's just a puppet of the Dems. The same ole story, just the Dems version.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

SmithBuilt said:


> That is my biggest concern. We will never be able to repay the countries that loan us this money.


 What makes you think we could have paid it back before the bailout?

Both parties do it, it's like a run away train. I fear becuase our manufacturing produces less and less here that we have gotten ourselves into a position were we cant even produce our way out.


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## SmithBuilt (Jan 9, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> What makes you think we could have paid it back before the bailout?


I don't think we would have, but I think it was possible. After this next bailout there may be no return. 




PhatElvis said:


> Both parties do it, it's like a run away train.


Agreed %100. I was(still am) hoping O would change that.



PhatElvis said:


> I fear becuase our manufacturing produces less and less here that we have gotten ourselves into a position were we cant even produce our way out.


I somewhat agree. I believe Americans are extremely resourceful. When things get bad enough we will get off the couch and do what has to be done.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

From a friend

Read this slowly. Let it sink in.

Absolutely The Funniest Joke Ever! . . . ON US

Does anybody out there have any memory of the reason given for the
establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY during the Carter Administration? Anybody? Anything? No? Didn't think so.

Bottom line . . we've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of an agency the reason for which not one person who reads this can remember.
Ready? It was very simple, and at the time everybody thought it very appropriate. The Department of Energy was instituted 8-04-1977 TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL. HEY, PRETTY EFFICIENT, HUH? AND NOW IT'S 2008, 31 YEARS LATER, AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS NECESSARY DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR, THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES AND LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE!

THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY 'WHAT WAS I THINKING?'

Ah yes, good ole bureaucracy. And now we are going to turn the Banking
system over to them? And the automobile industry?

God Help us!


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## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

*What if........*

I called both of my senators and asked what the monthly payment is for a 1 trillion dollar loan /$1,000,000,000,000,000.00/. Neither one could answer the question. So let's see, we are going to borrow 1 trillion from the Chinese and nobody knows what the monthly payment will be. How nice. What if the Chinese don't want to loan/buy the bonds to give us this money? What if the Chinese decide to cash in the notes/bonds? Will we then just print the money? And there is not one penny in this spending bill for mortgage/banking relief, so how much will the next spending/bailout bill be for? After all, the poor would-be real estate investor that went out and took out a 100% ARM loan to make his fortune in the real estate market needs to be bailed out. Our grandchildren will need to be taxed at 70% to pay down all this debt. What is the tax rate in socialist Sweden? 70%? And why in the hell is there $500,000,000.00/5 hundred million in this bill to give people in Puerto Rico solar water heaters?? WTF What happened to "change we can believe in"?


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

No matter how hard we try we cannot borrow our way to prosperity, we have to work our way there.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> No matter how hard we try we cannot borrow our way to prosperity, we have to work our way there.


I agree and unfortunately we either pay now or much more later. 250 of university professors that are economist (university professors in general are VERY LIBERAL) placed an ad in the Washington Post telling Big O this bail out is a mistake.

I thought Big O might make some changes but from what I have seen and heard the bail out is rife with PORK.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

With all due respect the Reps would have done the same thing only with their own pork. The system is broke and we all have some hard lessons to learn.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

PhatElvis said:


> With all due respect the Reps would have done the same thing only with their own pork. The system is broke and we all have some hard lessons to learn.


 
I agree 100% Bush signed every bill put before him with exception of a few.


SPEND SPEND...congress is spending us into the poor house.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> I agree 100% Bush signed every bill put before him with exception of a few.
> 
> 
> SPEND SPEND...congress is spending us into the poor house.


When you're $10 trillion in the hole, what's another few trillion of monopoly money anyway? :blink:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I was watching C-Span a while ago they were debating a spending bill and a congressman said look we are haggling over a few billion lets vote on this and go home. They are jaded by the numbers and it means nothing to them,


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Peter D said:


> When you're $10 trillion in the hole, what's another few trillion of monopoly money anyway? :blink:


 
And what happens if this bail out fails then we are in deeper doo doo. According to many economist we SHOULD (?) be out of this in 12-18 months from the start (early September 2008) with or without help. With help some economist feel it may drive us into a longer recession or depression for the unemployed.


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

brian john said:


> And what happens if this bail out fails then we are in deeper doo doo....


We all take our lumps and work our way out of this, which is what we should have done instead of pissing way 350 Billion to the banks who were dumb enough to get into trouble in the first place.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

*Nebf*



New Jersey Frank said:


> Can anyone tell me why we pay into NEBF?


 
NEBF is a pension plan. I receive over $1,300.00 a month plus social security and my regular pension. I am getting about $5,000.00 a month in retirement


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## worn kleins (Dec 13, 2007)

Does anybody know what comes after a trillion?? Is it a gazillion?? Just wonderin'. Our grandchildren are going to need to know this so they can budget for it. Wouldn't it be nice if team obama and all the senators and representitives would just go home and leave us alone? Oh, wait a minute, that's right, they think we are too stupid to manage our own affairs, never mind.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I watched the speech Obama gave and the only thing that I got out of it is how 3rd. in line for President could easily pass for a trained seal. Nancy Pelosci was like a "jack in the box" whith her standing O's. THAT is as phony as a Bill Clinton telling his wife "TRUST ME".


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

PhatElvis said:


> When Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors for Wal-Mart, (she worked for Wal-Mart as chief council) she was instrumental in keeping the unions out. The democrats talk a good game but in reality the only difference between the parties is one side pretends to care while the other side just stopped pretending. Both sides only care about two things, money and power.


Might want to look that one up on snopes.com or something!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

New Jersey Frank said:


> Can anyone tell me why we pay into NEBF?


Its a pension!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

brian john said:


> This is not my worse nightmare, the American system works and the man with the most votes won, now it is his turn to take on some real problems generated more by Congress with GB signing everything put in front of him.
> 
> But who wants to pay more taxes, no matter how much you pay the government will spend/over spend and in the end they want more. From what I hear you (being from NY state) pay a far more percentage of taxes than I do, do you get your money's worth?
> 
> As for Davis bacon there is the thought that this drives up taxes which you have to pay for, so for some extra work you pay more in taxes, sort of a win lose situation.


for us its puts the benefits, mostly health care, into the project and keeps the county from having to pay for indigent care.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I watched the speech Obama gave and the only thing that I got out of it is how 3rd. in line for President could easily pass for a trained seal. Nancy Pelosci was like a "jack in the box" whith her standing O's. THAT is as phony as a Bill Clinton telling his wife "TRUST ME".


Dont be fooled, that is one sharp lady. Read her bio. She earned her job!


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

brian john said:


> For those of you that are IBEW members that may have a more middle of the road or conservative political stance check Number Two and see where your dollars go.
> 
> http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/toppacs.php


 
Looks like my local gave the GOP $15,000.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

"COPE" is what the IBEW calls its PAC... And it's VOLUNTARY. When you fill out your paperwork to become a member, typically this is included. In our Local, there really is no pressure to give anything. Most folks don't give a penny, and that's ok. I hate PACs myself... but I still give. As long as the Chamber has a PAC, we need one too. But I am ALL FOR OUTLAWING the current system. 

So before you all go gettin' all "big pout", get your facts straight. If you want to give some money, you can... but you don't have to. That is the point of "VOLUNTARY".


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## PhatElvis (Jan 23, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Might want to look that one up on snopes.com or something!


 Do your own fact checks next time... http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4218509&page=1

Feel free to google it, there are 100s of pages on it.


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## fondini (Dec 22, 2009)

sherman said:


> Right now Democrat is where its at baby. Just turn on your television and weep if you are a republican. Your worst nightmare is arriving soon. The country has been driven into the ground from republicans 8 years of wont raise taxes they will just borrow more which is worse.


 Wow! You are right in the sense America's worst nightmare is arriving,this president and his administration are systematically destroying the country. Our freedom is being taken away every day and most people refuse to see it. We are at a crossroads here,its not about democrat or republican,its about AMERICAN. The politicians have done a great job in making most people hate. If you ask people why they hate Bush,Clinton,Kerry,Palin,Mccain, Obama,or anyone else you get talking point answers with no real substince. WE are heading toward an atmosphere that will inhibite all of us from working due to high taxes,low wages, small business being out of business, and the government owning everything. GM was in the news for re-paying 7 billion of the 60 billion they stole from us. the rest was converted to gov. ownership. Is this what we want. not me. We need to remember there is no free lunches.
just saying...


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## 4444 (Dec 11, 2009)

brian john said:


> For those of you that are IBEW members that may have a more middle of the road or conservative political stance check Number Two and see where your dollars go.
> 
> http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/toppacs.php


99 + 2.. did some give to both?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> "COPE" is what the IBEW calls its PAC... And it's VOLUNTARY. When you fill out your paperwork to become a member, typically this is included. In our Local, there really is no pressure to give anything. Most folks don't give a penny, and that's ok. I hate PACs myself... but I still give. As long as the Chamber has a PAC, we need one too. But I am ALL FOR OUTLAWING the current system.
> 
> So before you all go gettin' all "big pout", get your facts straight. If you want to give some money, you can... but you don't have to. That is the point of "VOLUNTARY".


So as I read your post you are against free speech. Seem's very American to me.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

4444 said:


> 99 + 2.. did some give to both?



The wise ones give to both.


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## Sparky480 (Aug 26, 2007)

How come not every local is on there? I tried looking up my local and its not listed


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> For those of you that are IBEW members that may have a more middle of the road or conservative political stance check Number Two and see where your dollars go.
> 
> http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/toppacs.php


Sounds good to me


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> Sounds good to me


That's because you do not or cannot see the big picture, if you greased the palms of both parties you would not cry like a baby when the other party comes to power, which will happen sooner or later.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

i look at my 3 yr old son and feel sorry for the mess we've given his generation to clean up...we are on the verge of making them live like the former Soviet Union...my only glimmer of hope is that the bad times stop in time for him to become a billionaire....similar to what is currently happening to many in the current Russia...

the fact that anyone, of any political party, is in favor of the current political trending, is proof that 50 yrs of public school indoctrination is working...


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

oldman said:


> i look at my 3 yr old son and feel sorry for the mess we've given his generation to clean up...we are on the verge of making them live like the former Soviet Union...my only glimmer of hope is that the bad times stop in time for him to become a billionaire....similar to what is currently happening to many in the current Russia...
> 
> the fact that anyone, of any political party, is in favor of the current political trending, is proof that 50 yrs of public school indoctrination is working...



Yep, a fine mess we have dug for ourselves, spending like a misbehaving juvenile with mommy's check book.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> That's because you do not or cannot see the big picture, if you greased the palms of both parties you would not cry like a baby when the other party comes to power, which will happen sooner or later.


Brian, 
That is what we had with Bush. The republician party is not going to do anything for labor, why waste our money


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

oldman said:


> i look at my 3 yr old son and feel sorry for the mess we've given his generation to clean up...we are on the verge of making them live like the former Soviet Union...my only glimmer of hope is that the bad times stop in time for him to become a billionaire....similar to what is currently happening to many in the current Russia...
> 
> the fact that anyone, of any political party, is in favor of the current political trending, is proof that 50 yrs of public school indoctrination is working...


Oldman, where did you get your education.
I received an good public education all those many years ago


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> Oldman, where did you get your education.
> I received an good public education all those many years ago


i see that


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> Brian,
> That is what we had with Bush. The republician party is not going to do anything for labor, why waste our money


the democratic party is not doing anything for labor...they just are better at feeding you a pile of BS...


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

I agree politicians have gotten us into a mess. Funny I dont remember reading anything you posted during bush's years about how bad the politicians were. SO I guess you were happy with the money problems during bush years.
This started with regan and contin.ues today


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

oldman said:


> the democratic party is not doing anything for labor...they just are better at feeding you a pile of BS...



I agree with the 'uneducated' oldman.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

oldman said:


> the democratic party is not doing anything for labor...they just are better at feeding you a pile of BS...


That is not entirley true, the republicians are not doing anything for labor.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> I agree politicians have gotten us into a mess. Funny I dont remember reading anything you posted during bush's years about how bad the politicians were. SO I guess you were happy with the money problems during bush years.
> This started with regan and contin.ues today


clearly you don't understand who truly decides what happens with our money...Bush caved to the congress...figure out who was in charge of congress...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> That is not entirley true, the republicians are not doing anything for labor.


i would argue that this is an ignorant statement.

what are the republicans not doing that the democrats are?

what are the democrats currently doing that is positive for anyone in this country?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> That is not entirley true, the republicians are not doing anything for labor.


Neither party is doing crap for ANY Americans including the minorities they have designed the give away too. They destroy the family and work ethics of all. Problem is sooner for later they are going to run out of other peoples money to give away.

I was no fan of Bush between the war and signing away money almost as bad as his predecessor, BUT there is no one that gives away as much as this bozo in the White House.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

I disagree, if everything was changed, Bush would have done many of the same things Obama did, except for health care.

Bush started the bailout's regardless of what he said he would have continued. He may have waited until the depression sit in you guys were hoping for, but bush would have done many of the same things obama did.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> I
> Bush started the bailout's regardless of what he said he would have continued. He may have waited until the depression sit in you guys were hoping for, but bush would have done many of the same things obama did.


Nobody said anything different, my point was the IBEW pisses your money away you get nothing or little to nothing in return because the Dem.s know they have the IBEW in their back pocket. Hedge your bets and play one against another and you might get something out of the mix.

Bush Junior sucked, Clinton SUCKED only good thing he was to busy worrying about his image to sell out completely to the PROGRESSIVES. But Big "O" is just f**king us into a 3rd world economy.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

additionally, please don't confuse GWB Republicans with conservatives...as a conservative, I didn't agree with GW anymore than I agree with OH...however, we screwed ourselves as a country in electing OH and a democratic/progressive/socialist Super Majority congress...we have no checks and balances...

but, again I ask, what is the current Democratic government doing for labor?


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

brian, we survived jimmy carter. we'll survive barry o. i hope.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> Neither party is doing crap for ANY Americans including the minorities they have designed the give away too. They destroy the family and work ethics of all. Problem is sooner for later they are going to run out of other peoples money to give away.
> 
> I was no fan of Bush between the war and signing away money almost as bad as his predecessor, BUT there is no one that gives away as much as this bozo in the White House.


 
I dont think you could find anythhing postive to say about this bozo regardless of what he has donee


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

paul d. said:


> brian, we survived jimmy carter. we'll survive barry o. i hope.


not sure...it's a different country....back then it was the United States of America....these days, there is way more fracture and it's more of the "Give me Mine" States of America...

sad to say, but true...the common good is no longer a concern as long as the special interests (on both sides of the aisle) get theirs...


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

oldman said:


> not sure...it's a different country....back then it was the United States of America....these days, there is way more fracture and it's more of the "Give me Mine" States of America...
> 
> sad to say, but true...the common good is no longer a concern as long as the special interests (on both sides of the aisle) get theirs...


Sad to say I agree with you.

When I watch history shows about how we came together in the 40s to fight the war all I can help but think is we could not do it now, the country is far to fractured into groups.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> I dont think you could find anythhing postive to say about this bozo regardless of what he has donee


What has he done? NOTHING oh wait he is spending our youth into a 3rd world economy. More debt in the last 11 months then in the previous 233 years, show me something positive in that.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

brian john said:


> What has he done? NOTHING oh wait he is spending our youth into a 3rd world economy. More debt in the last 11 months then in the previous 233 years, show me something positive in that.


It's really not that much with inflation and all:jester::laughing:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

How's that "Chocolate City" of yours doing?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Why is this silly one sided thread still alive. It should have been closed a long time ago.


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## fondini (Dec 22, 2009)

oldman said:


> i see that


 hahahaha:thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

oldman said:


> How's that "Chocolate City" of yours doing?


 
That got plenty of air time on Fox News, but seems it is OK coming from a black man who is also a politician


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

paul d. said:


> brian, we survived jimmy carter. we'll survive barry o. i hope.


The housing crisis we are suffering today started under Jimmy "The nicest President" but a buffoon Carter.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> That got plenty of air time on Fox News, but seems it is OK coming from a black man who is also a politician


Actually they found that, that name lost tourism for the city, seems it scared middle America, that and the title "Murder Capital of America"


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> the housing crisis we are suffering today started under jimmy "the nicest president" but a buffoon carter.


*brian please tell me how the housing crisis started under carter.*


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> *brian please tell me how the housing crisis started under carter.*



feel free to search deeper.....

since i figure you probably wont...


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

oldman said:


> feel free to search deeper.....
> 
> since i figure you probably wont...


 
Your answer is exactly what I thought you would answer. I wonder if oldman and brian are not the same people. 
I wont search under carter, I said all this started under regan and of course you have to jump up and say it started under carter.
Regan started the doing awy with government rules and regulations. The deficiet was also tripiled under regan.
Am I supposed to get mad at all the lies and crap you two- or one put out. YOu just show your lack of intelligence every time.
The truth is bad enough, why do you have to make up lies.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> Your answer is exactly what I thought you would answer. I wonder if oldman and brian are not the same people.
> I wont search under carter, I said all this started under regan and of course you have to jump up and say it started under carter.
> Regan started the doing awy with government rules and regulations. The deficiet was also tripiled under regan.
> Am I supposed to get mad at all the lies and crap you two- or one put out. YOu just show your lack of intelligence every time.
> The truth is bad enough, why do you have to make up lies.



that's great....totally disregard history....do no research...then substitute your own revised version....

fantanstic....


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

oldman said:


> that's great....totally disregard history....do no research...then substitute your own revised version....
> 
> fantanstic....


Because the truth hurts, once again a feel good PROGRESSIVE thought he was doing right and they (pres and congress) flubbed it.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*Reeding inglish iz hard, i know.*



brian john said:


> So as I read your post you are against free speech. Seem's very American to me.


Where did you, in your infinite wisdom, divine that? PAC's inhibit free speech, because if you aren't a PAC, no one on the Hill will even listen to you. Americans should elect their leaders, not special interest groups. But so long as PAC's are allowed to operate, then we must have one. 

If that's the best you can do, try again. :thumbup:


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*Not unless they give to COPE*



brian john said:


> For those of you that are IBEW members that may have a more middle of the road or conservative political stance check Number Two and see where your dollars go.
> 
> http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/toppacs.php


VERY MISLEADING!!! 

To all of you that may read this... The money that the IBEW gives to politicians comes from a special fund called "COPE", and IT IS VOLUNTARY. Since it is voluntary, then no one has a right to complain. Some people like to stir up issues that they know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT. :no: 

Furthermore, the IBEW is officially non-Partisan, meaning that they will give money to the politician with the best voting record regarding middle-class advancement and worker's rights, republican or democrat. 

I personally think PAC's are bull, but so long as the Chamber of Commerce (Largest union in the country) has a PAC, we need one too. The NRA (also a Union), gives money exclusively to the party that SUPPORTS gun-control (the republicans)! Just about every large organization (and lotsa small ones) gives away money to politicians, and the IBEW should be no different. But at least they make an effort to support those candidates who at least SAY they are on our side as working class Americans.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> The deficiet was also tripiled under regan.


I remember a Thanksgiving dinner where my Father and I got in such a heated discussion about this that my Mother had to tell us to shut up.

BTW, I thought President Reagan was going down a very dangerous path then (my Father said deficit spending was not a problem) and it would lead to eventual collapse of the US Dollar and the US economy. It looks like I may be proven correct on my forecast from the 80's. It's a very sad time for us in the USA. I think very bad things are coming.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

oldman said:


> feel free to search deeper.....
> 
> since i figure you probably wont...


The CRA was, and is, a good thing, in theory. The problem is that it came with no real regulation. Congress forgot that greed, not goodwill, runs our economy, and there is no corporate interest in self-preservation. Greed caused the housing bubble, not Jimmy Carter. No one is innocent, without a doubt, but lenders still had the right to refuse to lend. And Bushtard's response was a TRILLION DOLLAR BAILOUT WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED!!!! Way to look out for the taxpayer, Bush. 

And I am sure that SIX YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE had absolutely nothing to do with the economic crisis! Giving American corporations TAX BREAKS to send AMERICAN JOBS TO COMMUNIST CHINA had nothing to do with it. It's all the Dems fault, just you wait and see! :laughing:

The real crisis is NOT THE HOUSING BUBBLE! Fox News wants you to keep on believing it, but the real problem is JOBS JOBS JOBS. The republicans are sooooo endeared to the Communist Regime in China, that THEY GAVE them hundreds of thousands of OUR JOBS, by giving tax incentives to corporations that move their operations overseas! I remember hiding under a desk in school because of the threat of nuclear (NOT "NUKULAR") attack by communist nations, but now they get our jobs? Are you kidding me???? 

Spin this! Tell me how this also is really Jimmy Carter's fault! Or maybe Obama's or Clinton's? But surely not the party that CONTROLLED THE WHOLE NATION FOR SIX YEARS. I'm still trying to figure out what they did for those six years, as I heard a lot of promises during the 2000 Campaign, but saw no results once we elected them. I never got my tax cut, republican imposed gun control laws are still in place, and abortion is still legal. Did they party, and if so, why was I not invited? I voted straight republican ticket in '00, but never again. They are all full of hot air, and they like to say "NO" a lot, but other than that, they don't do anything. They constantly tell everyone that nothing will work, and we're all screwed, unless we buy into fascism (Corporate domination of Government... Think "too big to fail", and Halliburton/KBR). I suppose the theory is that is the rich get rich enough, they will share with us poor folks. Isn't that a form of "re-distribution of wealth"? I thought that the right-wingers were against that! Trickle down Economics is CRAP. The only thing "trickling down" is their pee on your leg (But they tell you it's raining!).


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> The CRA was, and is, a good thing, in theory. The problem is that it came with no real regulation. Congress forgot that greed, not goodwill, runs our economy, and there is no corporate interest in self-preservation.


You nailed it about the greed.


> I suppose the theory is that is the rich get rich enough, they will share with us poor folks. Isn't that a form of "re-distribution of wealth"?


 Yes it is exactly that.


> I thought that the right-wingers were against that! Trickle down Economics is CRAP. The only thing "trickling down" is their pee on your leg (But they tell you it's raining!).


The pain to recover from decades of waist is more than this country can handle (IMO). I am of the opinion that we (the elected leaders, party does not matter) will continue to deficit spend until our currency and economy are third world status. It may take some years to get there, but once it turns, we will all be surprised as to how fast it happens.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> Where did you, in your infinite wisdom, divine that? PAC's inhibit free speech, because if you aren't a PAC, no one on the Hill will even listen to you. Americans should elect their leaders, not special interest groups. But so long as PAC's are allowed to operate, then we must have one.
> 
> If that's the best you can do, try again. :thumbup:


You want to stifle PAC's which limits free speech. Should the IBEW be prohibited from donating all their cash to the BIG "O".

I live in Washington and I can tell you EVERYONE has a Lobby

Corner Pub and Bar owners association.
NRA
NEA
IBEW
AARP
Snack Food Association.
NFL
NBA
Bar Association
Counsel of Catholic Bishops
Atheists
AAA
AA

and this does not even scratch the surface


You think those idiots on the hill can make a decent decision regarding Patato Chips with out some input.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Oldman is an internet conservative.

He gets all riled up by what WND and Michelle Malkin tell him is wrong with the country.

You know, we just have to be thankfull he's not one of those wacked out Chuck Missler conservatives. 

How deep does the rabbit hole go? Daily Limbaugh listener?

Just because someone is a hardworking, productive American, whether they served or not, does not mean they know what is best for our country.

I think it is wrong for assault battery to be a felony two-year sentence. Fist fights are a great way to make new friends and come to meaningful solutions in an argument. So you see, often the law is wrong, and it was designed to keep us apart and frustrated.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

Some people are not interested in the truth. Some people want only to get people to argue over lies.
I have no problem with the truth no matter where it falls.
Some people also read one thing and totally change what they have read to something totally different. Then again they start putting out more lies.
Its amazing how some people think they are so smart and in fact they are totally he opposite. totally the opposite.

We have so many problems in this country and this world. Its amazing people would intentionally make up lies to satify some left wing-right wing crap.
david


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Oldman is an internet conservative.
> 
> He gets all riled up by what WND and Michelle Malkin tell him is wrong with the country.
> 
> ...


caught me...


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> You want to stifle PAC's which limits free speech. Should the IBEW be prohibited from donating all their cash to the BIG "O".
> 
> I live in Washington and I can tell you EVERYONE has a Lobby
> 
> ...


If everyone was prohibited, then YES. And don't say "all their money". That money is raised VOLUNTARILY, and I give a substantial amount (again because I feel I need to, as the Chamber has a lobby!) to COPE every year.

I just wish those idiots would listen to their constituents, and not all these damn PACs. EVEN OURS!!!!!

I will continue to pray for a perfect world, but until then, I suppose we will be funding lobbies!


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

hardworkingstiff said:


> You nailed it about the greed. Yes it is exactly that.
> 
> The pain to recover from decades of waist is more than this country can handle (IMO). I am of the opinion that we (the elected leaders, party does not matter) will continue to deficit spend until our currency and economy are third world status. It may take some years to get there, but once it turns, we will all be surprised as to how fast it happens.


You may be right, Lou. I hope to hell you're wrong, but I doubt it.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> You may be right, Lou. I hope to hell you're wrong, but I doubt it.


I hope and pray I'm wrong. I hate being wrong, but this is one time I will gladly take a bunch of chit for being wrong.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

If you want good bang for your buck - donate -> here.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> If everyone was prohibited, then YES. And don't say "all their money". That money is raised VOLUNTARILY, and I give a substantial amount (again because I feel I need to, as the Chamber has a lobby!) to COPE every year.
> 
> I just wish those idiots would listen to their constituents, and not all these damn PACs. EVEN OURS!!!!!
> 
> I will continue to pray for a perfect world, but until then, I suppose we will be funding lobbies!



And I wish they would not lie to us, but that ain't going to happen, Bush lied and so did Obama, both said they would unite the country. Lie on the campaign trail then do what to F you want when you get in.


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

Rockyd said:


> If you want good bang for your buck - donate -> here.


 
donate to Sara Palin's PAC, LOL-LOL-LOL-
Not Hardly


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> And I wish they would not lie to us, but that ain't going to happen, Bush lied and so did Obama, both said they would unite the country. Lie on the campaign trail then do what to F you want when you get in.


 
I think Obama found out the same thing Bush did and that is being President does not mean you have total control.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

retired 7373 said:


> I think Obama found out the same thing Bush did and that is being President does not mean you have total control.


It seems we are on a somewhat different political spectrums for some beliefs BUT I really feel that our government does not listen to us and is screwing the future generations. You and I cannot spend, spend, spend and survive and neither can the government.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

oldman said:


> How's that "Chocolate City" of yours doing?


Huh? What the hell does this have to do with anything?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> It seems we are on a somewhat different political spectrums for some beliefs BUT I really feel that our government does not listen to us and is screwing the future generations. You and I cannot spend, spend, spend and survive and neither can the government.


I with you on this Brian! The government is going to destroy us.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Huh? What the hell does this have to do with anything?


I am from (or live near) Washington DC, Washington DC's handle use to be
"The Chocolate City"


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Huh? What the hell does this have to do with anything?


i forget, but i'm sure at the time it made sense....:laughing:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

brian john said:


> I am from (or live near) Washington DC, Washington DC's handle use to be
> "The Chocolate City"


Oh, cuz we be da chocklate city now.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Oh, cuz we be da chocklate city now.


Do you live in NO city proper? My niece lives about 8 blocks from the dome.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

brian john said:


> Do you live in NO city proper? My niece lives about 8 blocks from the dome.


Nah, Metairie....I'm a fake nolatigabait. I can be at the dome in 10 minutes though. She lives in the warehouse district?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

If you face the dome as you come from Baton Rouge she is on the right.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Ohhhh, that has some nice houses and some dumps. It's called "uptown".


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

Rockyd said:


> If you want good bang for your buck - donate -> here.


R U NUTS??? She bails on Alaska to do a damn book tour, she thinks she can see Russia, and like a true sportsman, shoots wolves from an airplane.

As president, her watch will break and she will nuke Switzerland! She's a dope, and I PRAY TO GOD the Republicans run her in the next election! The headlines.... Never Before has a Candidate Been Beaten so Badly:laughing::thumbup::laughing:

Death Panels? Come on. You really like the dip$#!+, or you just tryin to be funny?


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

brian john said:


> And I wish they would not lie to us, but that ain't going to happen, Bush lied and so did Obama, both said they would unite the country. Lie on the campaign trail then do what to F you want when you get in.


The only ones who can unite this Nation are us... the People. But with the divisions separating Americans right now, that's not likely. Any President making those claims is suffering from delusions of grandeur.

What will bring this country together is common ground. Like if we are all starving. Or simply broke. Being hungry makes you smart. Adversity make you strong. And BOTH hunger and adversity make you realize exactly how much you need your neighbor.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

boulengerina said:


> What will bring this country together is common ground. Like if we are all starving. Or simply broke. Being hungry makes you smart. Adversity make you strong. And BOTH hunger and adversity make you realize exactly how much you need your neighbor.


I think you just figured out the Dems playbook...take everything away...make us commonly dependent on the government for everything...then we will be united...it's foolproof...what could possibly go wrong?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

oldman said:


> I think you just figured out the Dems playbook...take everything away...make us commonly dependent on the government for everything...then we will be united...it's foolproof...what could possibly go wrong?


Ask the USSR:laughing:.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

*C'mon, man. Be real*



oldman said:


> I think you just figured out the Dems playbook...take everything away...make us commonly dependent on the government for everything...then we will be united...it's foolproof...what could possibly go wrong?


Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot that Bush DIDN'T give bank CEO's a check for $700,000,000! I forgot... Must've been Carter, right?

C'mon, man. They are all guilty, and if you believe otherwise, I'll let you get back to your Glenn Beckerhead show.

I subscribe to the belief that they are ALL crooked. One of the best presidents we have ever had was a Republican (Lincoln), and the worst was as well (George W. Bush). And someone in this thread made the comment that Bush was under pressure and caved to Congress, as if the Dems were calling the shots. I would love to remind EVERYONE that the Republicans controlled Congress for 6 of the 8 years we had a moron for a President. Seriously, a "D" average science student was debating Global Warming! And we wonder why nothing ever changes for the better! Ha! Now we may have a President who is too smart for his own good. Time will tell. I didn't judge Bush until the end of his first term. I voted for him in 2000, but felt bad for doing so when I saw pee running down his leg (for 7 minutes, while OUR NATION WAS UNDER ATTACK) in a classroom of kids reading "My Pet Goat". Nothing wrong with reading to children, but you shouldn't freeze up when that many Americans are dying for no real purpose. 

And to all of you who hate Obama... Democracy sux, huh? Why don't you go and find a better system? If America is that lousy of a place, leave. I hear Mexico has some empty huts.


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

oldman said:


> I think you just figured out the Dems playbook...take everything away...make us commonly dependent on the government for everything...then we will be united...it's foolproof...what could possibly go wrong?


And I seriously doubt that you and nolatigabait would make jokes if you had ever been really hungry.

Every time you slam this country, I want you to think of those who died to protect it. NOT FUNNY.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

boulengerina said:


> And I seriously doubt that you and nolatigabait would make jokes if you had ever been really hungry.
> 
> Every time you slam this country, I want you to think of those who died to protect it. NOT FUNNY.


What? Way to spin things. My grampa fought in WW2, I have much respect for our vets and military men. I've never been hungry b/c I 've always done what I've had to , to make a living. I don't think slamming socialist propaganda is disrespecting the country, I think it's the way around.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Does anyone ever stop to consider that voters hate lawyers but elect lawyers to lead them?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

NolaTigaBait said:


> What? Way to spin things. My grampa fought in WW2, I have much respect for our vets and military men. I've never been hungry b/c I 've always done what I've had to , to make a living. I don't think slamming socialist propaganda is disrespecting the country, I think it's the way around.


exactly...because I don't want to see my country turned into something bad...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

This was posted over at CT, and I haven't verified it, but I reckon it's close enough to the truth.....

_This is very interesting! I never thought about it this way. Perhaps this is why so many physicians are conservatives or republicans. 

The Democratic Party has become the Lawyers' Party. 
Barack Obama is a lawyer. 
Michelle Obama is a lawyer. 
Hillary Clinton is a lawyer. 
Bill Clinton is a lawyer. 
John Edwards is a lawyer. 
Elizabeth Edwards is a lawyer. 

Every Democrat nominee since 1984 went to law school (although Gore did not graduate). 

Every Democrat vice presidential nominee since 1976, except for Lloyd Bentsen, went to law school. 

Look at leaders of the Democrat Party in Congress: 

Harry Reid is a lawyer. 
Nancy Pelosi is a lawyer. 

The Republican Party is different. 
President Bush is a businessman. 
Vice President Cheney is a businessman. 
The leaders of the Republican Revolution: 
Newt Gingrich was a history professor. 
Tom Delay was an exterminator. **** Armey was an economist. 
House Minority Leader Boehner was a plastic manufacturer. 
The former Senate Majority Leader Bill First is a heart surgeon. 

Who was the last Republican president who was a lawyer? Gerald Ford, who left office 31 years ago and who barely won the Republican nomination as a sitting president, running against Ronald Reagan in 1976. The Republican Party is made up of real people doing real work, who are often the targets of lawyers. 

The Democrat Party is made up of lawyers. Democrats mock and scorn men who create wealth, like Bush and Cheney, or who heal the sick, like First, or who immerse themselves in history, like Gingrich. 

The Lawyers' Party sees these sorts of people, who provide goods and services that people want, as the enemies of America . And, so we have seen the procession of official enemies, in the eyes of the Lawyers' Party, grow. 

Against whom do Hillary and Obama rail? Pharmaceutical companies, oil companies, hospitals, manufacturers, fast food restaurant chains, large retail businesses, bankers, and anyone producing anything of value in our nation. 

This is the natural consequence of viewing everything through the eyes of lawyers. Lawyers solve problems by successfully representing their clients, in this case the American people. Lawyers seek to have new laws passed, they seek to win lawsuits, they press appellate courts to overturn precedent, and lawyers always parse language to favor their side. 

Confined to the narrow practice of law, that is fine. But it is an awful way to govern a great nation. When politicians as lawyers begin to view some Americans as clients and other Americans as opposing parties, then the role of the legal system in our life becomes all-consuming. Some Americans become "adverse parties" of our very government. We are not all litigants in some vast social class-action suit. We are citizens of a republic that promises us a great deal of freedom from laws, from courts, and from lawyers. 

Today, we are drowning in laws; we are contorted by judicial decisions; we are driven to distraction by omnipresent lawyers in all parts of our once private lives. America has a place for laws and lawyers, but that place is modest and reasonable, not vast and unchecked. When the most important decision for our next president is whom he will appoint to the Supreme Court, the role of lawyers and the law in America is too big. When lawyers use criminal prosecution as a continuation of politics by other means, as happened in the lynching of Scooter Libby and Tom Delay, then the power of lawyers in America is too great. When House Democrats sue America in order to hamstring our efforts to learn what our enemies are planning to do to us, then the role of litigation in America has become crushing. 

We cannot expect the Lawyers' Party to provide real change, real reform or real hope in America Most Americans know that a republic in which every major government action must be blessed by nine unelected judges is not what Washington intended in 1789. Most Americans grasp that we cannot fight a war when ACLU lawsuits snap at the heels of our defenders. Most Americans intuit that more lawyers and judges will not restore declining moral values or spark the spirit of enterprise in our economy. 

Perhaps Americans will understand that change cannot be brought to our nation by those lawyers who already largely dictate American society and business. Perhaps Americans will see that hope does not come from the mouths of lawyers but from personal dreams nourished by hard work. Perhaps Americans will embrace the truth that more lawyers with more power will only make our problems worse. 

The United States has 5% of the world's population and 66% of the world's lawyers! Tort (Legal) reform legislation has been introduced in congress several times in the last several years to limit punitive damages in ridiculous lawsuits such as "spilling hot coffee on yourself and suing the establishment that sold it to you" and also to limit punitive damages in huge medical malpractice lawsuits. This legislation has continually been blocked from even being voted on by the Democrat Party. When you see that 97% of the political contributions from the American Trial Lawyers Association goes to the Democrat Party, then you realize who is responsible for our medical and product costs being so high! _


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Shut it down, close the thread.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> Shut it down, close the thread.


Don't like it? Don't read it. Pretty simple.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

I suddenly feel like my name is Rasmussen.


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## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worshipped will be gone


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## boulengerina (May 2, 2009)

JayH said:


> Does anyone ever stop to consider that voters hate lawyers but elect lawyers to lead them?


You NAILED it.:thumbsup:


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