# How to get around pesky box fill rules



## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

*Yet another box fill work around*

Another way around box fill issues








This is the feed to the bathroom receptacle


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

But, but, but...

"I taped it up really good. I made sure it was extra safe." :jester: 

I see that's black romex. That makes me think 60's/70's. I hardly ever run into DIY work from that era. Back then, most people still let electricians do electrical work. That was the dawn of the DIY era, I think.


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## Mark Henderson (Jan 23, 2007)

I love it. More work for us. Hey I actually hade one of my techs turn in a work order to me(whitch I read everyone)that said added new box for switch made joints in old box and buried in wall.:no: So I wrote a new work order for him to go right back and fix it correctly.

Mark


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Mark Henderson said:


> I love it. More work for us. Hey I actually hade one of my techs turn in a work order to me(whitch I read everyone)that said added new box for switch made joints in old box and buried in wall.:no: So I wrote a new work order for him to go right back and fix it correctly.
> 
> Mark


Holy Smokes, Batman!!!!!

I mean, if a fella did such a thing, why would he also document it????

He gets your bonehead of the week award, I guess? 


How do you handle that with the customer? Do they get a second bill for correction of work that should have never been done in the first place? I wouldn't have the nerve to bill for that, but then again, I've never had to send someone back to correct a violation they committed. Very curious how you handle that?


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## mdcorreia (Mar 31, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Holy Smokes, Batman!!!!!
> 
> I mean, if a fella did such a thing, why would he also document it????
> 
> ...


 


Thanks MDShunk for redirecting me here.

I notice here and in other forums many messages indicating that the members handle a lot of short service calls. How does one manage to get paid for at least 2 hrs then, if delayed, to the other home or business on another call you loose all that travel time because no one is home by then, or you get there and they say we no longer have a problem it was just a matter of resetting the GFCI etc. Then may be a driving delay elsewhere, then there is an apointment for a free estimate etc. Then no calls for 2 days and so on - How does one collect $350 or $400 per day for running around like that? 
I have been in business for 27 years and had to quit that type of running around at least 3 times at different stages because it costs me 18-$22,000.00/year to have a job (overhead) and then I still have to provide for my family!


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

MD,

it really can't be done well residentially on T&M. Look here and here and here and here for ways to do it. It's not easy, but it can be lucrative.

it takes a completely different attitude than many EC's have. It's as much dog and pony show as it is fixing the problems.

There is a small % of EC's who can excel in residential service work, most can't do it.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

oldman said:


> it takes a completely different attitude than many EC's have. It's as much dog and pony show as it is fixing the problems..


Yes, indeed. 

Sell the sizzle, not the steak. Don't just fix the problem. Talk about what you might find, find the problem, talk about what you found, present repair options, upsell repair options, make the repair, talk about what a good job you did, sell them on other repairs/upgrades you see around the house that can be done. 

Dog and pony show is right. It's an art as much as a skill.


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## mdcorreia (Mar 31, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Yes, indeed.
> 
> Sell the sizzle, not the steak. Don't just fix the problem. Talk about what you might find, find the problem, talk about what you found, present repair options, upsell repair options, make the repair, talk about what a good job you did, sell them on other repairs/upgrades you see around the house that can be done.
> 
> Dog and pony show is right. It's an art as much as a skill.


I get it! I don't think I am cut out for too much sizzle but it makes sense. I probably have to brush up on some home grown psycology. Thanks! a very good response.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

We have a 4 hour minimum for emergency calls 3 hours for all others.

I worked at a residential company in the 70's were the short service guy billed 12 hours regularly in a 7-8 hour day.

Emergency calls as you discussed are very good moneymakers if handled properly.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

brian john,

i think in many parts of the country, it would be tough to do that type of billing today. but the best part is that guys who are completely against flat rate companies claiming they charge too much and rip people off, simply because most flat rate companies have determined their actual costs to operate a residential service business.

guys get angry when they find out a flat rate company charges $200/billable hour. When they average 4 billable hours a day, it works out to $100/hr for the 8 hr day.

Meanwhile the same guys will someone bill 12 hours at $70/hr when the man only worked 8 hr ((12*70)/8=$105/hr) and think that that is ok because they are only charging $70/hr instead of those rip offs charging $200.

Sorry to bring this up here, but your post reminded me of it. Every service company needs to make about the same money. There are just different ways to get it. Some people prefer to figure out there real costs and bill accordingly. Some people like to place games and give a low rate, then tack on extra hours and fees to get there. These guys typically are attempting to charge the "going rate".

oh well, hope some of that made sense.


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

Every electrician should practice sucking through his teeth. A good apprentice learns this as his first practical test at tech school.

I don't know Ma'm 'suck suck' you really should get this fixed. Shouldn't cost more than 'suck suck' $$$$$$$$-£££££££££

Frank


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

One thing FOR SURE every area of the country has different practices and bill procedures.

Around here most residential contractors get $145.00 for the first half hour, $90.00 an hour billable in 15 minute increments.

When I travel to NY City I have to pay a union guy to sit and watch me, the customers gets billed for me, him and his apprentice. Last time about an hour or two into the job, I asked if he wanted to know what I was doing, he said NAH, I'd prefer to go home that way I won't hold you up, just sign my ticket.


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