# Some photos for your delectation



## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

I will try to find the rest of the pics in the next few days, pc has eaten them

:jester: 
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN1005.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN1006.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN1007.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN1008.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN1009.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN1010.jpg :jester: 

Is there a better/more acceptable way to post the pics, please??:thumbsup:



ALL the pics had captions to them, all gone now!!
first 4 pics are from a compressor, can you spot the deliberate mistake?
Last 2 pics are from a domestic welder repaired by the local handyman!!


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## philip657 (Dec 15, 2007)

something wrong there ? 

all looks good to me 


hehe why would people do that realy


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

Never seen a bit fuse before. You guys across the big pond are funny. :laughing: 

View attachment 318



View attachment 319


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

That guy has gone to a lot of bother jamming that bit in there,i use a cut down quarter inch bolt,fits perfect :laughing:

I've also found allsorts of stuff jammed in plug tops.

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Interesting that you refered to them as 'plug tops' I have always used this term and got absolutely bo!!ocked by some to$$er on another site. He reckoned that a plug top was the top of the plug which is removable...pr4t !! Mind you it was a site which I do a bit of 'baiting' on. Amazes me the number of people that give out advice on thsoe sites, I wonder how much damage/accidents have resulted??


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

There's a reason they call it a _hot_ wire! :laughing:


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Never feel hot to me, just a sort of Buzzingly numb sort of feeling:whistling2:


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## John (Jan 22, 2007)

How about just a warm and buzzy feeling?  

View attachment 320


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Just a small fuse problem


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

Trimix 

It must be the same site i tend to go do a bit of fishing on every so often :laughing:

I like to take a number of different "baits" and see who i can reel in :whistling2:

Amazes me how many are there trying to score some big points !

Plug tops ? i've always called them this trimy,its just what you get used to calling them isn't it.
Like when i was at college many moons ago the principal used to go off on one if you used the term "light bulb" , he said "bulbs grow in the garden,LAMPS are used in houses ! "

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Plug tops, light bulbs, Pyro? Green Sleeving? [never called it green and yellow, or even earth sleeve], earth wire [circuit protective conductor! my ar5e!!] Fuse board instead of MCB control centre? We could even be related!!:jester:


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

Trimix

Well Bro i keep getting bo**ocked when i call it a " Fuseboard " which is quite often !
I'm told its a "Distribution board ! "

And a stuffing gland or CTS gland is a "Compression gland ! "

So i stand corrected :laughing:

Chris


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## Minky (Dec 30, 2007)

*Terminology*

:thumbsup: Old habits die hard,i know exactly what you mean,apprentices these days look puzzled when the use of the word 'pyro' is used!!,and as for trying to terminate the said same stuff..hehe,i had one job where the apprentice made of 50 ends without using the compression ring,and never did an IR test before or after termination.
This was all found out at time of trying to fit the fire alarm system,to ident conductors!!.
Not sure if our american counterparts have as a comparison but here goes for you guys stateside 'pyro' is a trade name for a mineral insulated cable containing single or multiple conductors,it has a copper outersheath which can be insulated further by use of a pvc material,which can be coloured red,orange,or black.
Bare MI cable has a tendency to be used in some cases to blend in which building structure.
MI itself has to be stripped,glanded filled with moisture resistant compound,then an insulation resistance test be done between conductors and earth,generally the outer copper sheath is connected to earth so continuity of this outer sheath is paramount.
Most common use for this type of cable is fire alarm installations,although sub main runs are popular choices for this cable,since a solid conductor is used and therefore volt drop is not such an issue as which other types of cable.


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

*pyro*

Try finding any recent trainee that can actually terminate a length of pyro
yet alone clip it nicely clips same distance apart with brass screws all facing the same way.Spent alot of time as an apprentice in government bolier houses getting regular bollockings trying to get spacings right!
Always better to learn the hard way, although BICC have many years been out of buisness and i think Tyco now make Micc it will always be pyro to me.


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

I cannot find the photo but, goes a bit like this.

One of my lads went to a job at a local church. One of the throng fancied himself as a bit of a handyman. Section of lights would not work, all mcb's ok. Took one light down and it was wired in twin and earth [nb for our US cousins ALL church wiring has to be done in Pyro, there are a couple of alternatives but nobody bothers with them]...all faulty lights wired in twin and earth. Traced it back and into a 401 JB [plastic/ bakelite 3 terminal joint box]
Mr Handy :jester: had managed to strip the sheath from the Pyro and WITHOUT breaking the conductors mangaged to 'T' into it with the T&E, twist and tape joint. No glands, no pot, no compound, nothing!!! Live side had broken on the twist:whistling2: 

If anybody is interested I can post some pics of Pyro terminations and tooling [should anyone be so sad as to want to see them]


On a slight tangent why has JB 401 got 3 terminals, JB 301 got 4 terminals BUT JB 601 has 6 Terminals!!! always wondered but never found out :confused1:


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

Is that some 'sparkies' life blood on the deck John. I give blood every day in my job but try not to have it leak around the workplace,

Frank


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

*pyro*

I still use pyro for churches although some people use FP200 or Firetuff.
Theese cables are great for fire alarms but dont give you mechanical protection against vermin RE; why used in churches and National Trust
properties.
Recently carried out rewiring of thatched cottage was a pain in the ass used pyro in the loft space and metal joint boxes with gaskets ans compound.
Didnt want to take any chances as the house was 300 years old, also put RCBO's on all circuits,expensive job but worth doing properly.
As for Ashley 401, 301 never figured that out myself sure its to wind up the stupid boy in the wholesalers.
Dont often see Ashley boxes now they always try and sell you those crap ones that break when you nip them out.
Werent things better ten,twenty years ago dont get me started on that
Happy new year to all sparkies i hope you live long and prosper.


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

I won't let my suppliers send anything other than Ashley, for the reasons you state.
Years ago we had a spark worked for us, ex National Service Army [he knew EVERYTHING!!]. Anyway he fitted an MK JB on a lighting cicuit beause it had loads of terminals. BANG! FLASH! All the magical smoke that makes things work came out  

Hadn't realised that the terminals were in banks of 4 connected together under the white plastic, thought they were all 'individual' 

Won't let us use anything other than Pyro for Churches around here , they believe Delta Firetuf and FP 200 to be the work of the Devil and all his little helpers.

On the subject of Pyro. we used to do a lot of petrol stations CEF were trying to get our account [to55er5]
Could not get through to them that, at that time anyway [maybe different now], that their Pyro glands were not Ex rated. They said it did not matter as they were just as good if not better and 'cheaper'!! My confidence level was boosted considerably by this fact!!:wallbash:


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

*Ashley*

Ashley was that lovely British company that made good stuff the industry standard lampholders and joint boxes.
Dont like what Hager (BLOODY FRENCH) have done with the brand some of the stuff they make now aint good at all. im sure its a conspiracy against us EU and all that.
It seems that CEF is countrywide hated by sparkies, probably get in trouble for that but they always try and undercut with cheaper not so good quality products from china that catch fire if you put 230V near them.
Had problems with inflated trade prices and double invoicing in the past.
Keep sparking on.
Starting new job monday steel conduit trunking MEM dis board will be quite happy for a few weeks.


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

CEF PITA
All the managers used to drive around in beemers or mercs with CEF in the reg plate. Prices were made up on the spot. If we asked for a price on something that we had bought previously we were asked 'what did we charge you last time??'
Nice that you could go in and buy some sunglasses or other tat and have it booked as lamps! one of my ex-employees tried this. I let him keep the glasses in lieu of wages:laughing: 

Their [mainly] own brand stuff is so poorly made it defies belief. I heard that they used to get commission on the settled monthly accounts; that was the ONLY time we heard from their rep, when he was begging for a cheque!

All this is in the past tense as I told them to 'Shove the account up their ....'
Now, if we need to buy from them [v. v. rare] we pay cash and get far far better discount. Only use them when working away and desperate.

For my part, new job on monday; Fibre installation in a factory, all cable management installed by main contractor...happy days [I hope:whistling2: ]


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

Told CEF to shove their account where the sun dont shine a few years ago.found similar problems to you,agresssive accounts dept branches full of sun hats,footballs,remote controlled helicolpters.chocolate fountains but no through boxes,Mk at all or not one single item on the shelf.
Found my customers hotels campsites,developers could get better price for credit card over the phone.
Do use some UK based sduppliers but like local independants better contact and easier to deal with.
Maybe some one should have a poll of favorite suppliers.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

*Cornwall people*

Cornishsparks-

You wouldn't happen to know a wacky (bright & slightly daft) young woman who fancies herself a marine machinist? Cobbles together home made VFD's and such to get old industrial gear to work in her shop?


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

You got CHOCOLATE FOUNTAINS 

Long story so I will try to be brief. Relates to a certain supplier of below standard Elec stuff. With me so far??
Large company has YTS girl for 2 weeks. What to do with her. Give her Luckins [US; comprehensive trade price list]. and aforementioned companies monthly accs. told to mutiply luckins by discount to check invoiced price, shown worked example. No prob says girl. 2 hours 200 espressos and 1000 **** later, she admits defeat. Boss comes in, berates her; checks calcs and not one is correct. Reason is 'they' use their own trade price so no relation to the real world. Discount appears great eg 60% from them and 45% from others. Girl worked out they had been overcharged by £8,000 in the last 2 months FFS 
Boss arranges to see manager of suppliers in pub at lunch time. Boss enters pub.Manager says 'what's problem?' Boss explains, manager never even broke step drinking his pint and said, without flinching...'will you take it in cable then??'....Account closed:thumbup: 

Even ran a competition to see which branch could sell, invoice and receive cleared funds for the best[read expensive] price on a 13A plug, go on...have a guess :whistling2:


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

*Cef*

Found similar problems quoted me to supply Dimplex Duo heaters for a project gave me 40% discount on Dimplex seemed good new product not sure of. trade price for cef £540.00 less 40 but actual Dimplex price £351.
work it out.
Says comuter error not convinced all staff are slipery as **** eyes too close together got to pay for those personal merc plates.
Would be ashamed to fit any of their fire alarms or RPP rubbish plastic products on my jobs.
Seen lots of melted proteus boards manager once told me never buy of it we sell it to the saturday morning idiots that come in to buy (new fuse boxes with them switch things) you know the sort besr of luck/:thumbup:


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Many years ago Wylex sent out a flyer toall contractors refering to Wylex boards that had been fitted with Centaur [previous incarnation of Proteus] mcbs. Said they were a fire risk or something even worse. Found an old knackered one in the workshop the other day.The ends of the [for want of a better word] pins are bent double to increase the thickness of the 'pin'. Quality :thumbsup: !!


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## Minky (Dec 30, 2007)

Well well lads what have we started here!!,re:- CEF aka Crap,Electrical F**Ks,sorry had to get my tuppence worth,I had experience with Proteus switchgear,main switch was rated at 100A,but only able to handle 80A,only found out after customer complained when night store heaters were on that a strange smell was emanating from the DB.Believe me i wont touch them with a bargepole,most of their lines are cheap,for a reason!!.Very interesring thread though folks love to hear of other inferior products out there,helps us stay current (sorry the pun).
Another CEF special doing the rounds is a basic plastic conduit box,that you can assemble to suit on site requirements,it looks crap feels crap,and really doubt it would stand up to much punishment from a nylon drawtape!,never mind drawing circuits through.
Start back on monday,jobbing around,repairs and breakdowns,then starting back on a new house build doing structured cabling including alarms,music,it,tv,and mains.
Keep on sparkin!:thumbup:


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

CEF. Try and stay away except in emergencies. All their items are down to price. Guaranteed to be a problem to fit/replace/fix/leave happy. I am always prepared to pay for the better item. MK. Crabtree.MEM. Thorn.Crompton. SqD. Cutler Hammer tec etc etc

Frank


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

It amazes me why people still use them. Everybody I talk to steers well clear and yet they keep trading.

Any guesses as to the price of the 13A plug anybody


Oooh oooh oooh here's a good one.Just remembered.

Many years ago we bought a bundle of conduit off them and some fittings [only because they were literally 'next door'] All conduit had to be rethreaded, all boxes re-tapped and it came pre-rusted. Job was on a saturday so we were stuck for materials. Anyway, at the end of the job we had one length of conduit left and a couple of T boxes. I was feeling rather pi55ed off, so, and I am not proud of this [yeah right, not much!! :no: ] I posted the full length fastened to the 2 T boxes through their letterbox. NOT the workshop letterbox but the one in the front door!!!
Went back on the monday and explained that if they had not had grilles on the windows then it would have been through there insted. Also refused to pay for the materials, and was never pursued for payment.:thumbsup: RESULT!!


:jester: They said that they 'had been having a bit of a quality issue with the suppliers' :jester:


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## Minky (Dec 30, 2007)

*That wholesaler again*

 FFs:-
Not sure how to approach this one but here goes,how come everytime I go into CEF there is always one of those DIY idiots buying 8ft florrie tubes!!,and looking for advice re installing a socket,extra light fitting and most recently downlifgters.Speaking from experience i was asked by the CEF guy to help out this other customer,i duly obliged since he wished to extend his lighting in his kitchen to include extra GU10 fittings,i think i lost him after the mention of looped feeds at the existing fitting and the acoustic and fire prevention/spread properties of the fittings he was considering purchasing for said same wholesalers.
After following the customer to his car,whilst holding the door to let him get his florrie tube out the door,i recommended the customer to another brand of fitting knowingly stocked by numerous wholesaler apart from CEF,he then thanked me and wished i undertake the work for him,been a great customer every since!!,looks like CEF are good for some things,but they always seem to atract the old duffers.
Wish the government would spend more time and money making the public aware of the dangers of selling potentially harmful products to the ill informed,after all you cant sell fireworks to kids,let alone dodgy mainswitches to unwittingly incompetent diyers.


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

*Cef And Cheap Crap*

Looks like we started a CEF hate campaign here,am i bothered .not.
Like Frank always prefer to pay extra for beter brands , MK,Crabtree and MEM,Merlin Gerin switchgear.
If the customer wont pay then they are not the ones you really want.
for my shame i once fitted some cheapo fittings in a house for a customer who became a friend been back many times and changed fittings for MK.
Learnt my lesson on that one, there is a hell of alot of unbranded cable kicking around at the moment 6242Y you cant strip singles that look too small, meter tails and earth wire that has no BASEC mark.
If they send me any of this i throw it back at them, i know we cant afford to buy cable but i hate working with ****.
KEEP ON QUESTIONING WHY ?


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## Minky (Dec 30, 2007)

BASEC cable is what i learned when i was an apprentice was what to look for on the side of cable reels.Just recently got a batch of Pirelli/Prysmian T&E and it was trying to strip LSOH,there was no way i was pairing the outer from the inner insulation and i had just noticed this on socket 3 of over 50 to fit on a new build.Also found copper conductors with a tinge of aluminium in,think the copper shortage is hitting big time.Until recently i didnt collect copper for scrap,but its worth doing now 
Getting back to matters in hand however,our favourite wholesaler or should that be 'hole' saler coz,what comes out them is a lot of s**t,their own brand doncaster cable is a nightmare to strip,and seems to have a larger outer insulation than other brands.The Doncaster cable spvc,is impossible to strip without rattling your knuckles of the sharp edges of the enclosure its installed in.
I would like to see a fitzy 'fitzgerald' re-lamp outshine a thorn or phillips job!!
Like for like i wish to see a CEF job from roughing to finishing compared with the same with materials from another wholesaler,i bet after 5 years the installer will be back within a couple of years to the CEF install.
:thumbsup:


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

On the 'Fitz' front I really like the stuff. Never had a problem in 20+ years of using it. It is now our prefered supplier and we try to promote it as much as is possible. We have excellent after sales support from them and preferred terms on the pricing. Just my opinion.

I am going to start a new thread on Poor advice / Poor products....should be amusing:thumbsup:


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

*Fitzys*

:whistling2: They make Fitzgerald up the road here they are very good at doing specials quickly for local companies, i prefer Thorn pop packs but never had any trouble with fitzys packs either.
Have found Draka cable not bad or Wessells is easy to strip, never by any thing from AKTO Cable co or JSL not very good even though it has a BASEC licence.


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

*Posted elsewhere previously, so apologies if already viewed*

What do you do when you remove a street light and relocate it?:jester: 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN0092.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN0093.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN0094.jpg

Job done :thumbsup: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/Grumpys/Stuff/DSCN0093.jpg


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## Minky (Dec 30, 2007)

Nice photos Trimix,
I for one will not be walking my dog down your way:thumbup: ,Well at least not with his metal chain,and a wet leash.
Think the local council need to warn dog walkers in your area,not so much about fouling but about the use of rubber boots and gauntlets as lamp post may be live!!!
Nice work all the same NOT!!.
Whoever was responsible for this should be shot at dawn.


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

The above ground joint has beeen like that for at least 2 years. Cables are about 35mm. There was a streetlight on the central resevation [US=median??]. They moved the column and 'forgot' the cable for the new one. The 2 twin cables [like all the joints] are just twisted -on then made fully compliant with the judicious application of a bit of tape:thumbsup: 

The joint has finally been done away with/buried out of site as the area has been partially pedestrianised

Safe to walk around here though as the pics were taked in Hurghada , Egypt!!

On a lighter note I think I may have been following you the other day in Lancashire!!! Well, the car in front had the number plate M 1 NKY !!!

Cool or what.Next time I see it I will get a piccy on the phone:laughing:


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

Are theese cables actually live ?


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Oh yes, alive alive o 

Had been for at least 2 years. On a main road as well


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