# wiring pole barns



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I keep getting my butt kicked on bidding pole barn and outbuilding 
structures because I'm bidding them in pvc pipe & wire , all materials
for damp locations and if hay , oats , animal feed is stored in structure
I am bidding light fixtures to be jelly jars where animal stalls are or if
I install strip lights , I'm bidding vapor tights.(depends on height and
where in the animal barn----horses can stand momentarily and damn
near take out a light fixture.

Anyone see any problems with this? I am not stringing fricking romex 
with open bulb keylesses in an outdoor barn / outbuilding.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I keep getting my butt kicked on bidding pole barn and outbuilding
> structures because I'm bidding them in pvc pipe & wire , all materials
> for damp locations and if hay , oats , animal feed is stored in structure
> I am bidding light fixtures to be jelly jars where animal stalls are or if
> ...


And that is why your not getting them, but better not getting them then getting sued....

I went out a few weeks ago to a TS call for a barn. Turned out the morons hired another EC that pulled in an NM line from the well pump meter. He ran it along the pen fencing and terminated it at a sub panel he installed in the barn. He used the black for a hot, the neutral for a hot, and the ground as the neutral.... But don't worry, he picked up another ground by wrapping a bare wire around the metal fencing for the pen!

Low and behold the NM was damaged by an animal, and the fencing was energized!

They paid the guy $8k less than the bid I had supplied about a year ago.....

I cut the wiring from the panel, pulled out the original quote and tacked on serval grand more, because that is the idiot fee.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Common rural America (and Canada too)...I know Ohio is not the
only place outbuildings , barns etc are being built...


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Switched said:


> And that is why your not getting them, but better not getting them then getting sued....
> 
> I went out a few weeks ago to a TS call for a barn. Turned out the morons hired another EC that pulled in an NM line from the well pump meter. He ran it along the pen fencing and terminated it at a sub panel he installed in the barn. He used the black for a hot, the neutral for a hot, and the ground as the neutral.... But don't worry, he picked up another ground by wrapping a bare wire around the metal fencing for the pen!
> 
> ...


:blink:What a moron:no:

Well , I rarely get to see why I'm not getting these contracts , but I do
see NM in a lot of exterior , unheated buildings , barns etc...

I blame the people (owners) for this , cause I started giving code references
with my quotes , to explain why I was quoting everyhting in pipe , more costly fixtures etc... but I very rarely get theses jobs anymore.

Thanx for your input.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

lighterup said:


> :blink:What a moron:no:
> 
> Well , I rarely get to see why I'm not getting these contracts , but I do
> see NM in a lot of exterior , unheated buildings , barns etc...
> ...


Mine was a Prunetucky job... In CV, they pretty much all pay the extra costs to get it done right.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Switched said:


> Mine was a Prunetucky job... In CV, they pretty much all pay the extra costs to get it done right.


Are you refering to "Prunedale"?...:laughingrunetucky:no:


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

lighterup said:


> Are you refering to "Prunedale"?...:laughingrunetucky:no:


Yep..... It is getting gentrified though, as much as it can be. As the Bay gets more and more expensive people are moving further South and snatching up all the stuff under a million....


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Another true story...

I got a service call to go troubleshoot why overhead feed to outbuilding
was not working.

I get to property , older woman answers door (70ish) and directs me to
go to the rear of property.

There are a few of buildings , various sizes ...but as I'm walking , there are 
rats running out of bushes 10-15' in front of me , different ones , all sizes
some pretty big. I pass a pond and look and there are a lot of rats running 
away from me all around this pond.

Ever seen the movie "Jeepers Creepers"...I think part of that movie was filmed on this property...:vs_music:..cue music from "Deliverance".

I cautiously enter the building that she said the electric panel was in ..BTW
she never mentions to watch for rats). Yeah ..rats in this building too.

The knuckleheads who wired this place had it 100% in NM romex and the
rats had chewed as much of the outer sheathing off as they could , down to
visible copper..

I went back to lady @ house and told her , there was nothing I could do to help her unless the rats were eliminated and she let me rewire the entire place.

She wanted a price , but I said call me once all the rats are gone and I'll revisit the job. she never called and I doubt she was motivated enough to 
get an exterminator.

Also, the "overhead feeds" were thhn run between posts meant for laundry hanging..:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I don't favor pointing to the NEC// CEC when pitching reality to prospects.

Such terms wash off their backs ... like water off a duck.

I'd emphasize that livestock = stupid slobs walking around in the nude.

The result is that they are astoundingly sensitive to even tiny stray voltages while their farts destroy stone and concrete.

Any failure to use top grade electrical talent and materials turns into an animal harming fiasco.

The PRIMARY effect is to cause all livestock to lose weight// fade milk production// as they become 'uncontented.'

If the critters become uncontented enough, they become a hazard to humanity.

Irritated elephants are notorious for crushing their keepers up against the walls of their pen.

Since interviewing livestock is restricted to Dr. Doolittle and Mr. Spock, don't expect that you can 'read' their psyches.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

telsa said:


> I don't favor pointing to the NEC// CEC when pitching reality to prospects.
> 
> Such terms wash off their backs ... like water off a duck.
> 
> ...


Not to mention fire hazards. I've seen hay stacked to ceilings of lofts inches
away from a 150 watt incandescent bulb screwed into a keyless lampholder.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

lighterup said:


> Another true story...
> 
> I got a service call to go troubleshoot why overhead feed to outbuilding
> was not working.
> ...


You need to start a cat referral service.

BTW, don't assume that Mrs. Seventy-Something can even _see_ the rats.

At that age, detached retinas are common.

Cataracts are not anything near as obvious as thick eyeglass lenses.

&&&

Taking it a step further, you would be wise to crank out point of sale materials that are blown up into large type, large photos.

Most of your rivals are not savvy enough to take such a basic step.

Such is so because we all have the universal tick that what we see -- we presume that the other guy can also see, also remember.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

We just rewired an entire 1929 house in conduit and steal MC because of rats!

They have exterminators and are super clean people, but live in the hills.... Hills apparently filled with a ton of rats!


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

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Lighter...

When you see such zany situations... put on your imagination cap.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

lighterup said:


> Anyone see any problems with this? I am not stringing fricking romex with open bulb keylesses in an outdoor barn / outbuilding.


The problem for me with this type of thing isn't so much losing as it is wasting your time bidding. If you know this tends to happen with these jobs, bring it up early (like on the phone before you even go out to survey the work). Ask if they're more interested in the lowest price or fully code compliant, a reasonably safe and durable installation for about 50% more. If they say lowest price, politely decline to bid, but please call back if they reconsider.


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