# Todays 200 amp



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Sorry about the lousy pics, i had to shrink them. As perinspection of this flip forclosure I found extensive racoon and squirell damage as well aluminum branch faliure. Notone existing circuit got re energized. We due to rewire the entire premises as soon as they gut everything:thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Only one mast hanger?? :blink:


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## alpha3236 (May 30, 2010)

*Scary stuff!*

Gotta love thePOCO, they read the meter & never say a word!:blink:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> Only one mast hanger?? :blink:


They had the roof open so I stuck a 2 hole strap in the soffit.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I wanna see the new meter base. Did you hack it up and just stick it on top of the siding?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I wanna see the new meter base. Did you hack it up and just stick it on top of the siding?


No meter base on this one, that's a premium job. This one went economy.


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## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

question here in chicago we have to go one complete size up for a mast riser. i did my house and had to use 3 inch for my riser prob different area different code?


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## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

oh sorry went from 100 amp split buss to 200 amp c/h br 40 space


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

seabee41 said:


> question here in chicago we have to go one complete size up for a mast riser. i did my house and had to use 3 inch for my riser prob different area different code?


Huh?...One size up from what?...3'' is a huge riser for a 200 amp service.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I wanna see the new meter base. Did you hack it up and just stick it on top of the siding?



What did you have in mind? Serious question.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> No meter base on this one, that's a premium job. This one went economy.


So, um... are they gonna get free power now then? :blink: Because that's definitely economy.



seabee41 said:


> question here in chicago we have to go one complete size up for a mast riser. i did my house and had to use 3 inch for my riser prob different area different code?


Does your power company install the wires down the riser, or is it the electrician's job?

Here, we run the wires down the riser, land them in the meter, install a weather head, and make goosenecks. Then the power company comes out and attaches their service drop holder-upper to the mast and hooks it up (and installs the meter). So we just have to deal with whatever the power company's minimum service riser through a soffit is.... usually 2" Rigid for a resi 200 amp service.


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## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

electricians job down riser but like i said here in chicago when we do a MAST riser we have to size our riser up i size so instead of standard 2 inch for a 200 amp service we have to go to three inch


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

seabee41 said:


> electricians job down riser but like i said here in chicago when we do a MAST riser we have to size our riser up i size so instead of standard 2 inch for a 200 amp service we have to go to three inch


 
Ever hear of 2 1/2 inch?


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## seabee41 (Dec 21, 2010)

ha yes but tell our inspectors that mainly cause the riser has to support the mast but i know trust me 3 inch way to big for that i had to go out and buy a threader for that one


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> What did you have in mind? Serious question.


 

I like to roto zip siding out where the meter goes, install trim around rectangle hole for meter base, and screw meter base to the sheathing. Like new work. Looks alot better.


Hack screw right on top of the siding


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I like to roto zip siding out where the meter goes, install trim around rectangle hole for meter base, and screw meter base to the sheathing. Like new work. Looks alot better.
> 
> 
> Hack screw right on top of the siding




That is the only way to get it flat and level too. We do the same but let the siding guys fix it. I thought you might have a way I didn't know about. However I will stick one back on the siding on a rental house in a second......I say this because I get a call for one guy every year about one of his tenants stole the meter cover and he needs a new one. Cheapest you can do it....I ain't made of money....:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> That is the only way to get it flat and level too. We do the same but let the siding guys fix it. I thought you might have a way I didn't know about. However I will stick one back on the siding on a rental house in a second......I say this because I get a call for one guy every year about one of his tenants stole the meter cover and he needs a new one. Cheapest you can do it....I ain't made of money....:laughing:


Just blast it in with lag bolts then you can cut the siding with a razer blade, 

But im am going to try to do the roto zip thing *mcclary *suggested:thumbsup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Just blast it in with lag bolts then you can cut the siding with a razer blade,
> 
> But im am going to try to do the roto zip thing Mc suggested




If I tried to cut siding with a razor I would cut my hand off or the siding wouldn't be straight. The roto zip works nice once you learn how to cut with it. It can get away from you if you aren't extremely careful.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> If I tried to cut siding with a razor I would cut my hand off or the siding wouldn't be straight. The roto zip works nice once you learn how to cut with it. It can get away from you if you aren't extremely careful.


 Yes im am going to try that:thumbsup:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

The fatso on the roof forgot his red suit. :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> The fatso on the roof forgot his red suit. :laughing:


Looks like he has out grown his shirt and pants:laughing::laughing:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I like to roto zip siding out where the meter goes, install trim around rectangle hole for meter base, and screw meter base to the sheathing. Like new work. Looks alot better.
> 
> 
> Hack screw right on top of the siding



How do you get away with that from the building dept? We have to mount the meter on top of the siding or a siding block. Something about water intrusion behind the siding. The pic showing the J-channel in this thread would fail a building inspection. Maybe different in other parts of the country though.

Tom:001_huh:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I like to roto zip siding out where the meter goes, install trim around rectangle hole for meter base, and screw meter base to the sheathing. Like new work. Looks alot better.


What waterproofs the sheathing behind the meter?

I agree with davis9, that should fail inspection.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

BBQ said:


> What waterproofs the sheathing behind the meter?
> 
> I agree with davis9, that should fail inspection.


 Could you not install 6 mil poly, then mount meter base, then caulk all around meter base? I doubt anything actually waterproofs the installation completely.

Just my opinion.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Could you not install 6 mil poly, then mount meter base, then caulk all around meter base? I doubt anything actually waterproofs the installation completely.
> 
> Just my opinion.


Sure you could. I wouldn't but you could. :thumbsup:

Screw it to the siding and move on.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Sure you could. I wouldn't but you could. :thumbsup:
> 
> Screw it to the siding and move on.


That's exactly how I mounted it, the sider even needs to install apiece to cover the partail opening of the old meter:laughing:. I don't care, they want cheap, they get basic. At least i installed a new mast, my competitors are attaching to the old wooden rotting mast.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> That is the only way to get it flat and level too.


There is another way kemosabe. It can even be done over the top of vinyl siding and leave everything looking smooth.

Well, two other ways, and they can be worked in combination.

I don't like hacking up siding, unless you're going to reflash the top of penetrations. Too much drama with water penetration and wood.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> There is another way kemosabe. It can even be done over the top of vinyl siding and leave everything looking smooth.
> 
> Well, two other ways, and they can be worked in combination.
> 
> I don't like hacking up siding, unless you're going to reflash the top of penetrations. Too much drama with water penetration and wood.



I leave the repair up to the siding guys. If it was mounted to the siding it goes back on the siding. If it's new construction it goes on wall and siding guys trim around it. If it's a nice house I won't put it on the vinyl.:no:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I have no idea why some of you have trouble mounting a meter socket on top of vinyl and have it come out looking good. :blink:

That is how we always did them back in the day ...


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I have no idea why some of you have trouble mounting a meter socket on top of vinyl and have it come out looking good. :blink:
> 
> That is how we always did them back in the day ...




Actually I don't. I just have to disagree with anything miller says. We do work for one GC that wants the panel and meter framed on any house that has siding. Hardy plank or vinyl....doesn't matter.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Actually I don't. I just have to disagree with anything miller says.



OK, now it makes sense. :thumbup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> There is another way kemosabe. It can even be done over the top of vinyl siding and leave everything looking smooth.
> 
> Well, two other ways, and they can be worked in combination.
> 
> I don't like hacking up siding, unless you're going to reflash the top of penetrations. Too much drama with water penetration and wood.




It can be done. New construction for sure. Not always remodel. Depends on the situation. I can make it look fine on the siding but it looks better framed in IMO.
I post pics of my work for your entertainment all the time......when you gonna post some?


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## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

Who is the fat guy on the roof?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

crazymurph said:


> Who is the fat guy on the roof?


one of the roofers laborers, the roofer himself was dennis learys twin


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> What waterproofs the sheathing behind the meter?
> 
> I agree with davis9, that should fail inspection.


 

Uh um I don't know, probably the house wrap and vinyl trim:blink:

I think you have completely either lost your mind or read my post wrong.

My method mimmicks new work. If I screw the meter base to the sheathing, and the vinyl siding guy trims around it, just like every window and door in the house, what's the difference? Hacks screw meter bases on top of vinyl. Unless it's aPOS house, then who cares


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Uh um I don't know, probably the house wrap and vinyl trim:blink:
> 
> I think you have completely either lost your mind or read my post wrong.
> 
> My method mimmicks new work. If I screw the meter base to the sheathing, and the vinyl siding guy trims around it, just like every window and door in the house, what's the difference? Hacks screw meter bases on top of vinyl. Unless it's aPOS house, then who cares


I end up 1/4 20 the meterpan to the back to back panel with a couple lock washers and nuts inside the panel on two out of three meterpan mounting holes. ( does that count for bonding?:jester


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

I space out the meter with 1/2 emt so the siding dosent get pushed in then silicone around meter. Looks great!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I have no idea why some of you have trouble mounting a meter socket on top of vinyl and have it come out looking good. :blink:
> 
> That is how we always did them back in the day ...


I always mount the meter pan on top of the vinyl siding..

The problem comes when the siding guys "J" channel around the meter pan and the new MP won't cover the old hole.

I have one coming up and I got a solid white panel that I am going to cut into the vinyl siding.

Those guys either rip the MP off the wall and use leader straps to hold it on the wall or use J channel.

I have yet to see just one of them use an EC to remove the MP off the wall so they can do the siding the right way..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> My method mimmicks new work. If I screw the meter base to the sheathing,


If I was to screw the meter socket to bare sheeting in new work I would fail.





> and the vinyl siding guy trims around it, just like every window and door in the house, what's the difference?



Sorry I have never seen a meter with a nailing flange that also seals like on a window. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Arlington makes mounting bases for cases just like this.








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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Arlington makes mounting bases for cases just like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is exactly what I got for my service change.. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Shockdoc said:


> They had the roof open so I stuck a 2 hole strap in the soffit.


That'll be a mystery 50 years from now when the electrician doing the upgrade then tries to figure out why the hell the conduit won't come loose. Holy cow that's gonna suck. :whistling2:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> I always mount the meter pan on top of the vinyl siding..
> 
> The problem comes when the siding guys "J" channel around the meter pan and the new MP won't cover the old hole.



Like this... before and after.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Yep... exactly like that.. :thumbsup:

Nice job.. as always..


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> Yep... exactly like that.. :thumbsup:
> 
> Nice job.. as always..



If I recall I had to go out in the middle of the day to buy the backer. It also could have been centered better.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

Looks good, I try to use them whenever possible with Vinyl Siding.

Tom


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

seabee41 said:


> ha yes but tell our inspectors that mainly cause the riser has to support the mast but i know trust me 3 inch way to big for that i had to go out and buy a threader for that one


Threader probably cost you more than what you made on that job, maybe even more than what you charged the customer.



jwjrw said:


> That is the only way to get it flat and level too. We do the same but let the siding guys fix it. I thought you might have a way I didn't know about. However I will stick one back on the siding on a rental house in a second......I say this because I get a call for one guy every year about one of his tenants stole the meter cover and he needs a new one. Cheapest you can do it....I ain't made of money....:laughing:


If you are not an electrician what would you need the cover for? May want to let POCO know about this too, they are likely stealing power.



jwjrw said:


> I leave the repair up to the siding guys. If it was mounted to the siding it goes back on the siding. If it's new construction it goes on wall and siding guys trim around it. If it's a nice house I won't put it on the vinyl.:no:


If it is a nice house it doesn't have vinyl.



BBQ said:


> I have no idea why some of you have trouble mounting a meter socket on top of vinyl and have it come out looking good. :blink:
> 
> That is how we always did them back in the day ...


How good does it look when subject to temperature changes. Vinyl siding just like PVC conduit, needs to be installed so that it can expand and contract with temperature change. You can get away with mounting something on it in some cases and other times the siding buckles because you created a fixed point.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

kwired said:


> If you are not an electrician what would you need the cover for? May want to let POCO know about this too, they are likely stealing power.




You don't have much experience with renters do you? Renters are spiteful and will steal or damage whatever they can when they are evicted.





kwired said:


> If it is a nice house it doesn't have vinyl.



Wrong. There are many million dollar plus houses here with insulated vinyl siding on at least a portion of them. I was also talking about any kind of siding. Hardy plank included.


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> You don't have much experience with renters do you? Renters are spiteful and will steal or damage whatever they can when they are evicted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
IMO the only vinyl siding worth installing on a nice home is the few out there that cost about as much as hardie siding, so why not just put on the hardie siding in the first place? On a rental put on the cheapest crap if you wish, It will need replaced in 5-8 years anyway (if you are lucky).


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> I post pics of my work for your entertainment all the time......when you gonna post some?












That's vinyl siding. See, I'm not a complete faker, GEESH!










That's my siding, Hardiplank. Me again.










I ripped off the old T-111, hung new 5/8 sheating.










I temped support for the meter and phone, so I could run all the hardi behind it.










Hung corners first, to keep them straight, like a laser.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

There's some pipework. I had more pics, but my computer caught a social disease, that and my camera phone is crap. I intend to buy a cheap digital camera, so I can post pics of my work here, for your dis-pleasure.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> There's some pipework. I had more pics, but my computer caught a social disease, that and my camera phone is crap. I intend to buy a cheap digital camera, so I can post pics of my work here, for your dis-pleasure.


A social disease.....:laughing::laughing::laughing: It should have worn protection.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> There's some pipework. I had more pics, but my computer caught a social disease, that and my camera phone is crap. I intend to buy a cheap digital camera, so I can post pics of my work here, for your dis-pleasure.



:thumbsup:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> That's vinyl siding. See, I'm not a complete faker, GEESH!
> 
> 
> That's my siding, Hardiplank. Me again.




I would of thought your head was much bigger than it looks in that pic... You are such a big prick I figured your head must be huge...:whistling2:
Turns out it's not that big after all but it is ugly....

Man I would not even try to put siding up. There are people called carpenters that do that crap...


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> A social disease.....:laughing::laughing::laughing: It should have worn protection.


Protect your PC


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

kwired said:


> Protect your PC
> 
> View attachment 5049


:laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbup:


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

miller_elex said:


>


That point of Attachment looks a bit high to me.:laughing:

Tom:thumbsup:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

davis9 said:


> That point of Attachment looks a bit high to me.:laughing:


Yeah, it was all of 6 inches higher than it needed to be.


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

davis9 said:


> That point of Attachment looks a bit high to me.:laughing:
> 
> Tom:thumbsup:





miller_elex said:


> Yeah, it was all of 6 inches higher than it needed to be.


Depending on where the connection to the service drop is made, the point of attachment may be too high or the service head may be too low. The connection must be below the service head otherwise water can enter inside the conductor insulation and run all the way down and exit the other end of the conductor inside the meter can. That is not as bad of a situation as if it were termininating on a main breaker instead of a meter socket, then that water would be entering the breaker - seen it happen many times.

Placing the service head above the point of attachment usually means there will be no problem with this.

Read 230.54(F and G)


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

kwired said:


> Placing the service head above the point of attachment usually means there will be no problem with this.


Right. My crystal ball is clearing....
I see myself posting a picture of drip loops.

There is a rafter behind the fascia board and sheating in the siding. That's what the lag is screwed into.

So I should have just screwed the lag into the sheating? That's weak. Only a noob would screw a lag into something with no backing.

Maybe I should have used my x-ray vision to find a stud through the siding, wrap, and sheating. I could have screwed my lag into that.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Right. My crystal ball is clearing....
> I see myself posting a picture of drip loops.
> 
> There is a rafter behind the fascia board and sheating in the siding. That's what the lag is screwed into.
> ...


Argue all you want, it's still a violation. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Argue all you want, it's still a violation. :thumbsup:


Is it? ....................


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Is it? ....................



Screw you Boob for making me open the book. :laughing:

I was for the location of the POA before I was against it. :thumbup:


Edit: I'm not going to correct the typo!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Screw you Boob for making me open the book. :laughing:













​


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Right. My crystal ball is clearing....
> I see myself posting a picture of drip loops.
> 
> There is a rafter behind the fascia board and sheating in the siding. That's what the lag is screwed into.
> ...


Entrance head could always be moved and still have a strong POA.

You can install a drip loop that goes all the way to the ground if you want but if the connection to the drop is above the entrance head and water gets inside the conductor insulation it will eventually fill the drip loop and run down the conductor inside the raceway and exit at the load end termination.

Nothing wrong with the install as long as connections to the service drop are lower than the entrance head, but most times POCO makes that connection and some do not care about things like this. Even if you do not have an inspector that will pick on this it is still a better install and the meter terminals will last longer if you have the connections below the head.

I generally try to make sure that entrance head is above the POA then no matter what POCO does when connecting water will not enter the conductor and get past the head.


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## davis9 (Mar 21, 2009)

So does 230.54 C only apply to a cable type installation not a Service head on a pipe? If so, I learned something new today. And most inspectors enforce the Service head to 230.54 C as far as I can tell.

Tom


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## kwired (Dec 20, 2009)

davis9 said:


> So does 230.54 C only apply to a cable type installation not a Service head on a pipe? If so, I learned something new today. And most inspectors enforce the Service head to 230.54 C as far as I can tell.
> 
> Tom


230.54 C only applies to cables, 230.54 F applies to all drip loops and requires the connection to the service drop to be below the level of the service head or terrmination of cable sheath. 

Placing the entrance head for a raceway though not required helps insure that 230.54 F is not inadvertantly violated.


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