# New Electronic Ballast causing issue



## working4aliving (Nov 12, 2012)

Hello everyone............got an interesting one for you, just not sure if there is any solutions to the issue..........

Store has a FM receiver that plays music thru out the store and recently they had a contractor hired by the building owner to do some re-lamping and ballast replacement by what they tell me.

Since this happened they could get no FM stations without major static, not even the local station. So when i arrived they told me this so i said ok, please turn on the radio and then turn off the lights.

BAM, as soon as lights went off station came in crystal clear.
I know this has to be due to the new electronic ballast being installed so any solutions? I did some research and found sometimes you can get a residential grade and replace the commercials and it helps...so i'm told.

I suggested streaming music via web or ipod.

any ideas or solutions out there????


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Sounds like an ungrounded fixture.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

ive put up tons and tons of flourescent fixtures in commercial garage/retail/commercial applications and sure as sh1t when we'd fire them up for the first time all radios went super fuzzy. turn em off radios go clear again. ive always just assumed that's the way it was and accepted it


----------



## gotshokd666 (Oct 17, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> ive put up tons and tons of flourescent fixtures in commercial garage/retail/commercial applications and sure as sh1t when we'd fire them up for the first time all radios went super fuzzy. turn em off radios go clear again. ive always just assumed that's the way it was and accepted it


Same here


----------



## working4aliving (Nov 12, 2012)

eejack said:


> Sounds like an ungrounded fixture.


 
Have you or someone ran across this causing that type of issue then?

Thanks for the response


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

working4aliving said:


> Have you or someone ran across this causing that type of issue then?
> 
> Thanks for the response


I have run into it a lot.

A quick test - isolate a single fixture and turn it on. Listen to the amount of static. If it is the ballasts then each ballast will add a little bit of static. If it is one ungrounded fixture then all the static will come from one fixture. If all the fixtures are not grounded properly, then the static will be constant.

Lots of times, especially with the newer 'quick connect' plates the grounding depends upon the plate digging into the paint of the fixture. There usually is little actual contact there.

Sometimes, if you zip screw that plate into the fixture you fix your grounding problem.

edit: usually it is not an issue but I always listen to the radio when i am working so static free airways are important...


----------



## working4aliving (Nov 12, 2012)

eejack said:


> I have run into it a lot.
> 
> A quick test - isolate a single fixture and turn it on. Listen to the amount of static. If it is the ballasts then each ballast will add a little bit of static. If it is one ungrounded fixture then all the static will come from one fixture. If all the fixtures are not grounded properly, then the static will be constant.
> 
> ...


 
Wow, great info to know. I greatly appreciate your input on this.

:thumbup:


----------



## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

eejack said:


> I have run into it a lot.
> 
> A quick test - isolate a single fixture and turn it on. Listen to the amount of static. If it is the ballasts then each ballast will add a little bit of static. If it is one ungrounded fixture then all the static will come from one fixture. If all the fixtures are not grounded properly, then the static will be constant.
> 
> ...


That goes hand & hand with lock nuts. 
Inspector said he wants to see paint scraped from being beat on and not just tightened with a pair if channel locks.


----------



## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

eejack said:


> I have run into it a lot.
> 
> A quick test - isolate a single fixture and turn it on. Listen to the amount of static. If it is the ballasts then each ballast will add a little bit of static. If it is one ungrounded fixture then all the static will come from one fixture. If all the fixtures are not grounded properly, then the static will be constant.
> 
> ...


Are you saying that paint is _not_ conductive?


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

uconduit said:


> Are you saying that paint is _not_ conductive?


 
Yeah some of the paint are non conductive at all so to slove my issue on my side I useally install the star washer I will post the photo so you will get the idea what I am refering to.










That will bite thru the paint most of the time but somecase you will have to scrap the paint or run a selftapper next to it that useally take care the issue you have.

Merci,
Marc


----------



## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

frenchelectrican said:


> Yeah some of the paint are non conductive at all so to slove my issue on my side I useally install the star washer I will post the photo so you will get the idea what I am refering to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was actually being sarcastic. I scrape paint off with a sharp instrument first to make a reliable connection.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

uconduit said:


> I was actually being sarcastic. I scrape paint off with a sharp instrument first to make a reliable connection.


Fair engough.,

But the other issue that some case the paint on the ballast is tougher so have to scrape the paint off from them as well but useally I go much quicker to use the star washer that will useally take care the issue I have to deal with them especally if you have large numbers of luminaires to deal with it.

Merci,
Marc


----------



## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

I was actually thinking of using a wire brush attachment that fits into a cordless drill. I haven't gotten around to it yet but I think that would work out.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

uconduit said:


> I was actually thinking of using a wire brush attachment that fits into a cordless drill. I haven't gotten around to it yet but I think that would work out.


 
Really in fact that idea you come up and I have try that and it don't work with all luminarie due the crappy sheetmetal. They can be very flimsy and hard to handle unless you run into older luminaires which they will have hevaier guage metal then it can take it without issue.

I did try to time it to see how fast I can use the wirebrush that hooked up to the drill vs the time I use the star washer it was kinda eye opener how much time I loose on them and with pretty new lumianires the sheet metal are much thinner than old one. And it don't take much to kink them.

Merci,
Marc


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I will be very surprised if this turns out to be a grounding problem.

Cheap electronic ballastS make a lot RFI.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

BBQ said:


> I will be very surprised if this turns out to be a grounding problem.
> 
> Cheap electronic ballastS make a lot RFI.


 
Heck yeah the cheap ballast are famous for that especially from chine side they are the worst 

For the grounding issue I am not too suprise when someone is in the hurry to install the ballast and not done properly with it. That usealy the most common curpit.

Merci,
Marc


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> I will be very surprised if this turns out to be a grounding problem.
> 
> Cheap electronic ballastS make a lot RFI.


Assuming you are right, is there any possible way to mitigate the static?

Replace the 'replaced' ballasts with better ballasts?


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

eejack said:


> Sounds like an ungrounded fixture.


Stick to posting in the union section. Cheap ballast will cause this and has nothing to do with a ground.


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Stick to posting in the union section. Cheap ballast will cause this and has nothing to do with a ground.


And as per your normal posting, nothing of value added.

You could have said

"Cheap ballast will cause this. Find the offending ballast and replace it."

or pretty much anything else productive.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

eejack said:


> And as per your normal posting, nothing of value added.
> 
> You could have said
> 
> ...


No way not me. I can't help myself when I see someone post a guess, and offer it as a fact.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Without knowing how many lights you've got, would split ferrite chokes on the ballast output conductors do anything? I wonder if the lamps themselves are emitting RFI.

-John


----------



## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> No way not me. I can't help myself when I see someone post a guess, and offer it as a fact.


So which of these two is presented as a fact and which as an opinion?



mcclary's electrical said:


> Cheap ballast will cause this and has nothing to do with a ground.





eejack said:


> Sounds like an ungrounded fixture.


Shocking.


----------



## 120/208 (Nov 18, 2012)

My initial assessment would be cheap ballasts or cheap lamps. Could someone explain poor grounding causing the issue? Also, is the fm receiver on the same circuit as the lighting?


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

eejack said:


> Assuming you are right, is there any possible way to mitigate the static?
> 
> Replace the 'replaced' ballasts with better ballasts?


I don't know, the experimenting in my own garage has not started yet.

I have six 4 lamp T8s with electronic ballasts that absolutely kill my radio reception and I do know they are properly grounded. I installed them. (Don't worry, I had a union guy check my work )

I have some new ballasts for them but have not put them in yet.


----------



## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

I have never heard of this on FM radio but certainly have experienced static noise on AM stations. All news to me.


----------



## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

BALLAST !!!! Not a grounding problem.

Replace them all with low RF noise ballast. I did the same thing in a garage. Pan fixtures with T8's. 

I called technical support of the ballast company. They knew right away, and gave me a part # of a good ballast, but they refused to pay for them.

I forget the name of the ballast company, but I'll never use them again. I have it in my office.


----------



## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

uconduit said:


> I was actually thinking of using a wire brush attachment that fits into a cordless drill. I haven't gotten around to it yet but I think that would work out.


That's what I use on my transformers, works great


----------



## Ewcelectric (Nov 3, 2012)

Every quick connect plate fluorescent fixture I've installed in the last, I'd say 5 or more years has a bonding conductor to marrette to, not a screw. They still cause interference fwiw. 
The ones previous to them had the screw on the fixture not the plate, with threads.

Edit: this only applies to t bar fixtures


----------

