# We can get along.



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> This board has been created with reference to the electrical field of work in general. I do assume that the creators of this site caters more to the nonunion sector.I personally have no problem with this as I feel we can benefit each other in a positive manner if we just would. We have lived with so many myths about each other that the truth has a hard time getting to the surface on this site therefore it causes animosity between us. From what I know about the IBEW right now is probably the easiest time to get in and in certain parts of the USA and Canada work will be abundant soon. Just about all locals have signed a no strike contract.Some things that have happened in the past will never be seen again but I read about these fears and phobias all the time on this site, I do love my past but find it impossible to dwell on it to survive today (if that makes any sense) I have seen post by people who appear to be hard working persons of good morals and some even have a sense of humor just as the union Brothers and Sisters I have been working next to for the last 28 years. We do have many things in common and could be a possitive influence on each other if we could only get past the myths, fears, and phobias. I just want to earn a living for my family, be resposible enough to have a retirement package when the time gets here(soon) and to earn the contractor money so the circle goes unbroken. I would like to go on the rest of my career making friends not enemys just because a person belongs to a certain club or not.



I love your ideas and morals,but I have never been on a jobsite where non-union guys blocked the aisles and blocked in the cars of union guys, but I have been on more than one project where just the opposite has happened.
Somebody had to let them know they should do that kind of crap.


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## yucan2 (Jun 9, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> This board has been created with reference to the electrical field of work in general. I do assume that the creators of this site caters more to the nonunion sector.I personally have no problem with this as I feel we can benefit each other in a positive manner if we just would. We have lived with so many myths about each other that the truth has a hard time getting to the surface on this site therefore it causes animosity between us. From what I know about the IBEW right now is probably the easiest time to get in and in certain parts of the USA and Canada work will be abundant soon. Just about all locals have signed a no strike contract.Some things that have happened in the past will never be seen again but I read about these fears and phobias all the time on this site, I do love my past but find it impossible to dwell on it to survive today (if that makes any sense) I have seen post by people who appear to be hard working persons of good morals and some even have a sense of humor just as the union Brothers and Sisters I have been working next to for the last 28 years. We do have many things in common and could be a possitive influence on each other if we could only get past the myths, fears, and phobias. I just want to earn a living for my family, be resposible enough to have a retirement package when the time gets here(soon) and to earn the contractor money so the circle goes unbroken. I would like to go on the rest of my career making friends not enemys just because a person belongs to a certain club or not.


Nice, but as post #2 illustrates, your keystrokes would be best utilized elsewhere. Sad, but true and unlikely to change in your lifetime or mine.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> This board has been created with reference to the electrical field of work in general. I do assume that the creators of this site caters more to the nonunion sector.I personally have no problem with this as I feel we can benefit each other in a positive manner if we just would. We have lived with so many myths about each other that the truth has a hard time getting to the surface on this site therefore it causes animosity between us. From what I know about the IBEW right now is probably the easiest time to get in and in certain parts of the USA and Canada work will be abundant soon. Just about all locals have signed a no strike contract.Some things that have happened in the past will never be seen again but I read about these fears and phobias all the time on this site, I do love my past but find it impossible to dwell on it to survive today (if that makes any sense) I have seen post by people who appear to be hard working persons of good morals and some even have a sense of humor just as the union Brothers and Sisters I have been working next to for the last 28 years. We do have many things in common and could be a possitive influence on each other if we could only get past the myths, fears, and phobias. I just want to earn a living for my family, be resposible enough to have a retirement package when the time gets here(soon) and to earn the contractor money so the circle goes unbroken. I would like to go on the rest of my career making friends not enemys just because a person belongs to a certain club or not.




Brother Noah while you certainly have amicable intentions I feel there's just to many difference of opinions coupled with convictions based on both experience and myths. Undoubtedly both sides of the fence are guilty of this. I have my fair share of haters because of my beliefs and there's guy's here I can't stand because of theirs, this is the way of the world. 

That being said over time I feel that the arguments and differences of opinions kinda let the interested person sort out the truths from the BS and they can make their own decisions on what they want to believe.
(ever see how many guess are viewing the union topics page)

I actually think that's the beauty of this site, imagine if the opinions viewed here were argued in person, no doubt it would break into screaming matches and escalate into fist-a-cuffs. Here on Electrician Talk your free to speak your mind with almost zero censorship.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

There is a "discussion" over at contractor talk about PC vs Apple that is 5 times more caustic than this. I like it when union guys extend the hand and act cool like the op is doing. We are all bozo's on this bus. This good will is just what the whole trade, and yes country needs. Oh,, by the way, pc's suck, but hey.... just me talking:laughing:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

sbrn33 said:


> I love your ideas and morals,but I have never been on a jobsite where non-union guys blocked the aisles and blocked in the cars of union guys, but I have been on more than one project where just the opposite has happened.
> Somebody had to let them know they should do that kind of crap.


Years ago in the early 90's union work in the Augusta area (where I lived at the time) had hit rock bottom, to a point the hall told all just get a job. I am sure you can guess the results. That was in the past and even as recent as several months ago trying to apply for jobs in Southern California to be told I am either over qualified or just do not hear from them but have friends that apply to the same company after I did only to get hired.If we wanted to we all could whine about our abuse at the hands of others or we could just open our minds to the reality in front of us.We can help one another instead of harming each other because of past bias.We have the choice to change these skewed views for a future harmony.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I believe that I can get along with anyone. I used to say on the job that "I'm not hard to get along with...but I'm not long to get a hard with".:thumbsup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

As far as I know Union and non union electrician's get along pretty well here. Well all the jobs that I have worked on we have gotten along very well like helping the other out when they needed a knockout cutter or a box heater or a factory 45 and so on.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I ain't out to be friends or get along with no one.

The sooner we come to realize that the trade is not about making friends with each other, the better. 



In spite of the above I am well liked and friends with many, it must come from low expectations.

The only person I suck up to is P.Elvis. The rest of Y'all can eat IT.


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## katoomrp (Dec 5, 2009)

As ive always said,Im not out here to make friends, im out here to make time.


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## TOO_SL:IM (May 13, 2010)

Thank you Brother Noah, When I first started in the trade (Union) my BA at the time took the Time to let everyone know that no matter what we all share a common ground we are ELECTRICIANS. We work around something that you can not see, smell,hear,taste, and touch the only sense we have left is our common sense.With that being said Union, Non union to me it is all about safety,and giving the customer the best job we all can do.

So the next time you are in a jam or need help just ask yourself "who would you ask" the Carpenter, the Tin knocker, the Laborer ;no you ask another Sparky for help or advice.
Yes I do agree with Miller I aint hear to make friends on the job,or enemy's.

And if you pull a tool out of my bag without permission y,you will pull back a stump.
Have a great weekend all


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

We are all electrians doing labor for an hourly wage to support ourself and or family's.Why would we want to have hostilities towards each other? Ask yourself who has anything to lose or gain from this? Most of our differences I have experienced have been of the unknown factor(past rumors) that some take for being real today, therefore form biased views of a said person before you even meet them. I just do not understand why this hostility could exist.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I ain't out to be friends or get along with no one.
> 
> The sooner we come to realize that the trade is not about making friends with each other, the better.
> 
> ...


You really don't need to be so gay. 

why would you come on to a site for electricians and not be friendly?

Otherwise everyone would hate you.
:thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> We are all electrians doing labor for an hourly wage to support ourself and or family's.Why would we want to have hostilities towards each other?


Ask this guy....






Now I know this guy does not represent all union men, most of the ones I have worked with have been good guys but I have met enough of 'him' to really take the shine off the great objectives the union was started for.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Is there any background to that video? There must have been more to that story.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

jrannis said:


> Is there any background to that video? There must have been more to that story.


Posted by the youtube user who uploaded the video:
*michaellee1974* — September 05, 2006 — Video of a man that threatened me at a gas station during the local telephone company's labour dispute. This man (6'4", ex-football linebacker) later took a run at our van with his semi-truck (not captured in video). Management staff, including myself, crossed the picket line and performed front-line duty.

You can read *29 pages* of comments about the video here.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Management staff, including myself, crossed the picket line and performed front-line duty.


 
My parents are die-hard republican business owners.

Yet they feel absolute disgust for turds who cross picket lines.

Now of course, that does not include 'informational' pickets. 

But if it's a strike, you absolutely get what you deserve.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> My parents are die-hard republican business owners.
> 
> Yet they feel absolute disgust for turds who cross picket lines.
> 
> ...


Yeah! You get what you deserve! How dare you try to go to work! 


And you sir are why unions are despised by regular people, as they should be.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> And you sir are why unions are despised by regular people, as they should be.


Regular folks where?

Regular folks know that the people who despise unions, also despise brown people, also despise people of any other religion than evangelical, also despise poor people, the list goes on and on and on who you despise.

Its practically an honor to be despised by a fool like yourself.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Yeah! You get what you deserve! How dare you try to go to work!
> 
> 
> And you sir are why unions are despised by regular people, as they should be.


 This is a good example of what I have been posting. All locals in the IBEW that I know of have a NO STRIKE CLAUSE in their contracts. This go to the adage I like to use if you look for black you will find black. Bob (not trying to pick on you) did you have this clip somewhere saved on your computor or just knew exactly where it was located? Ask yourself WHY??? It certainly does not spread joy among those of us on this site. As Vic has stated unions only account for maybe 10-20% of the electricians but we are to blame for the majority of the problems we all face? (that math just does not add up) I myself have made many sacrifices for all working class(union and nonunion alike) I am not asking for pat on the back, money and or respect. It is something that I believe has to be done by someone and if not me then who? Bob I have seen glints of good nature on your post as well as deep rooted hostilty. I am not on this site to bring any ill will and from what I have seen by others that have identified themself as union members do not mean to harm anyone. We can get along, but we have to make the effort.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

So lemme see if I got this straight:

A non-union electrician has a family to feed, mortgage payments to make, bills to pay, so he crosses a picket line to do the job of a union electrician that's on strike. For this, he's a scab, a turd, a scum-bag low-life who is taking food of off someone else's table.

But a union electrician who has a family to feed, mortgage payments to make, bills to pay, does 'side work' outside the union, and that's OK.


That about it in a nutshell?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Noah, you are a fraud and a phony. Your agenda is very transparent. Your "brothers and sisters" shtick is just ponderous and tiresome.

Why do I say this? You preach, and all you are doing is preaching, "joy" togetherness, and harmony, yet when legitimate issues are brought forward such as the video Bob posted, you fail to address the video and instead attack Bob for posting it. When I respond to a nonsensical post by a union shill you reply that I am the problem not the thuggery promoted by the union thug.

So Noah please, spare us your bull****.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Noah, you are a fraud and a phony. Your agenda is very transparent. Your "brothers and sisters" shtick is just ponderous and tiresome.
> 
> Why do I say this? You preach, and all you are doing is preaching, "joy" togetherness, and harmony, yet when legitimate issues are brought forward such as the video Bob posted, you fail to address the video and instead attack Bob for posting it. When I respond to a nonsensical post by a union shill you reply that I am the problem not the thuggery promoted by the union thug.
> 
> So Noah please, spare us your bull****.



You guy's on the other side are guilty of the same exact thing that you are accusing Noah of.

A small example of what I've seen from honest, starving, self motivated merit shop contractors in the past,

1) Paying guy's the PW and then meeting them at the bank to take cash back from them.

2) Hiring people as "laborers" on PW jobs and giving them electricians duties so they can save money and give a lower bid. Oh, yea this is illegal.

3) Falsifying the H&W part of the rate so the contractor can pocket more of the tax payers money instead of paying the labor what's entitled to them by law.

4) Hiring mexicans to "pre-fab" materials at a shop and then delivering these materials to the job to be used on PW jobs. Also illegal.

Then on private jobs that are not protected by PW laws and rates I've seen other things that are less then honest,

1) Showing perspective employees anti-union video tapes and then asking them what they think about unions at the end of the interview. This is illegal and a standard practice buy one of the largest non union company's in my area.

2) Using scare tactics during organizing campaigns, firing people that are pro union with out reason, having the anti's collaborate the lie's of the management. 

3) Trying to have people sign their rights away buy forcing them as a term of employment to sign "denial of outside organizational membership".
This never holds up in the court of law and always makes the company look bad. I don't know why contractors still try this.

4) And my favorite one, bribery. When I organized, the contractor bought a guy a brand spanking new f-150 pick up truck. Guess what? That guy voted yes anyway.:laughing: 

Look let's be honest here, you guy's aint no saints either. I wonder how many of you here actually are as honest as you say you are. I'm willing to bet plenty of you are cheats and bull****ters.

I aint saying that the IBEW is Mother Theresa. God knows there's plenty of local unions and members stuck in the 1950's. What I am saying is for the open shop contractors to stop bull****tin so much, I can smell it through my monitor some times.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> You guy's on the other side are guilty of the same exact thing that you are accusing Noah of.
> 
> A small example of what I've seen from honest, starving, self motivated merit shop contractors in the past,
> 
> ...


Sorry. I ain't done any of that shît. Never been a party to it, and never seen it happen first-hand.


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## TOO_SL:IM (May 13, 2010)

480sparky, you have never seen a IBEW picket line,why cause we do not strike.
Now I have been on jobs where other trades walkout, and set up a picket line,and at that point it is the individuals choice about weather to cross it or not.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Sorry. I ain't done any of that shît. Never been a party to it, and never seen it happen first-hand.



So let me guess, since *YOU* never been a part of something like that or seen it first hand then I guess that means it never happens:whistling2:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

TOO_SL:IM said:


> 480sparky, you have never seen a IBEW picket line,why cause we do not strike.
> Now I have been on jobs where other trades walkout, and set up a picket line,and at that point it is the individuals choice about weather to cross it or not.



Picket lines and strikes are two different things. I've seen and been on picket lines. Never saw any violence and never blocked an entrance. Also where is this we do not strike stuff coming from. I know it's far and few between but this last contract negotiations my local had a strike vote for an approval if needed.

I have to say, I don't doubt what any body says they have seen on picket lines and I don't agree with it. It's not 1953 any more the strong arm tactics and intimidation doesn't work anymore and can only make us look bad.

The unions that will thrive in 2010 and beyond are the ones that can fight with their brains, not there fists.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

TOO_SL:IM said:


> 480sparky, you have never seen a IBEW picket line,why cause we do not strike......


False. I have seen them. I have crossed them. I have experienced them.

*And don't try to tell me otherwise.*


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> So let me guess, since *YOU* never been a part of something like that or seen it first hand then I guess that means it never happens:whistling2:



So let me guess. Because *YOUR *union is full of angels, they all are.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So let me guess. Because *YOUR *union is full of angels, they all are.





slickvic277 said:


> Originally Posted by *slickvic277*
> I aint saying that the IBEW is Mother Theresa. God knows there's plenty of local unions and members stuck in the 1950's. What I am saying is for the open shop contractors to stop bull****tin so much, I can smell it through my monitor some times.


He answered that question a little while back. Get your glasses on. :thumbup:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Here's an example of a cheat,
http://www.laser-inc.com/critic/ferguson/Oct07/Ferguson_Mechanical_1.pdf

here's another,
http://www.stargazette.com/article/...-of-cheating-employees-on-Binghamton-projects

another,
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doi/downloads/pdf/pr0522a02.pdf

and another,
http://www.queensda.org/newpressreleases/2008/may/bar_aar_electrical_05_08_2008_cmp.pdf

and another,
http://www.pennsylvaniaworkerscompensationlawyersblog.com/2010/01/california-company-accused-of.html

Really it goes on and on. . . .. .


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So let me guess. Because *YOUR *union is full of angels, they all are.



Of course were full of angles, the building is basically a rectangle and since we live in 3-d there's ton's of angles. I would say we have the same angles as everyone else.:no:

Here is our secret angle,


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

480 IS upset because union market share where he lives is a whopping 15%. He can't get over the tactics of this secret elite ruling minority who purportedly are pursuing a monopoly on installation labor, industry wide. Somehow, there is a conspiracy to shut 480 out, STAND BACK! Here comes the Don't Tread on Me flag, can FOX news please point me towards somebody to hate?!?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Here's something that may or may not be illegal, but is definitely shady in my opinion.

My company doesn't sponsor me for school, they require it for employment, and they pay the school up front so it looks like they're sponsoring us, but that money is then deducted from our checks to pay them back.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> 480 IS upset because union market share where he lives is a whopping 15%. He can't get over the tactics of this secret elite ruling minority who purportedly are pursuing a monopoly on installation labor, industry wide. Somehow, there is a conspiracy to shut 480 out, STAND BACK! Here comes the Don't Tread on Me flag, can FOX news please point me towards somebody to hate?!?



:laughing: It's all a conspiracy.It's part of our *ANGLE*. A, man what a joke. The hypocrisy is endless, Were not relevant but were the problem, only 15% market share but we stop all _them_ from working, Were the only ones playing dirty just ignore all the facts. . . blah, blah, blah.

You know what else is funny, We are always the ones out of work yet this forum is dominated by the non union with guy's that have 11,000+ posts. . 

The day must be really busy to be able to have 11000+ posts.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> :laughing: It's all a conspiracy.It's part of our *ANGLE*. A, man what a joke. The hypocrisy is endless, Were not relevant but were the problem, only 15% market share but we stop all _them_ from working, Were the only ones playing dirty just ignore all the facts. . . blah, blah, blah.
> 
> You know what else is funny, We are always the ones out of work yet this forum is dominated by the non union with guy's that have 11,000+ posts. .
> 
> The day must be really busy to be able to have 11000+ posts.



Angle? Uhhhh... I guess you need to put your glasses on too. :laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Here's something that may or may not be illegal, but is definitely shady in my opinion.
> 
> My company doesn't sponsor me for school, they require it for employment, and they pay the school up front so it looks like they're sponsoring us, but that money is then deducted from our checks to pay them back.



:huh::lol::confused1:

What?? Do you mean that for them to hire you they're suppose to pay for school but don't?

If their not "contracted" to pay for your school then no, its not illegal even if a bit slimy. BUT if they are "contracted" to pay for your schooling, then yes they're cheating and creating an unfair advantage by shedding some of their expense on to YOU.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Ive worked with a few really good hearted Union Guys in the past but for me its hard to get past what they did to an old boss of mine....


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> Angle? Uhhhh... I guess you need to put your glasses on too. :laughing:



:laughing: It seems that I'm suffering from some Dyslexia lately.

No seriously this is like the third or fourth time I have done this.:001_unsure::blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> He answered that question a little while back. Get your glasses on. :thumbup:



I get it. All union electricians always tell the truth. Non-union electricians are always liars. I keep forgetting that.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> 480 IS upset because union market share where he lives is a whopping 15%. He can't get over the tactics of this secret elite ruling minority who purportedly are pursuing a monopoly on installation labor, industry wide. Somehow, there is a conspiracy to shut 480 out, STAND BACK! Here comes the Don't Tread on Me flag, can FOX news please point me towards somebody to hate?!?


Man, you guys really are psychic. You know EVERYTHING. You know why I am upset, you know why Bob is upset. Geez, you guys are the ILLUMINATTI and the BILDERBURGS all rolled into one.

Can you give me the numbers for tonight's lottery drawing? If I get a winning ticket, I'll go away.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I think Noah is either a Black Panther from the 70's, a priest, or LawnGuy.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I get it. All union electricians always tell the truth. Non-union electricians are always liars. I keep forgetting that.



And you got that from where now? 

It must suck to get a nibble and lose it when you start to reel it in. :laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I get it. All union electricians always tell the truth. Non-union electricians are always liars. I keep forgetting that.



No, you don't get it. This is the truth, there's scum on both sides.

But what I never see on this forum is someone from the other side admit to it. Or because they have never seen it then it doesn't exist.

Here's another infliction suffered by the merit guys on here, you think because you know electrical work that you know everything.

Well you don't.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> And you got that from where now?
> 
> It must suck to get a nibble and lose it when you start to reel it in. :laughing:


Hm. I wonder where I got that from. Lemme see...

Maybe from here and here?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Here's an example of a cheat,
> http://www.laser-inc.com/critic/ferguson/Oct07/Ferguson_Mechanical_1.pdf
> 
> here's another,
> ...



Where's all the union hater's at now? Why no comment from all the honest starving contractors?

I thought this was all union propaganda.
No one here has ever cheated:whistling2:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Hm. I wonder where I got that from. Lemme see...
> 
> Maybe from here and here?



I read no where in there where it said ALL non-union contractors are guilty of shady business. Sooo... try again.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> I read no where in there where it said ALL non-union contractors are guilty of shady business. Sooo... try again.



Sooooooooo, then what's the point of saying SOME non-unions shops are cheats? I've never claimed they're all perfect either.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> I read no where in there where it said ALL non-union contractors are guilty of shady business.  Sooo... try again.



I know I'm a bit dyslectic but I didn't think I said anything like that.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Sooooooooo, then what's the point of saying SOME non-unions shops are cheats? I've never claimed they're all perfect either.



I don't know you're the one that brought this whole thing up. You tell me.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Sooooooooo, then what's the point of saying SOME non-unions shops are cheats? I've never claimed they're all perfect either.



Right, but you seem to act like they're always the victims. Which isn't true.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> I know I'm a bit dyslectic but I didn't think I said anything like that.



Then what's the point of claiming _some_ non-union outfits are cheats? To point out that _some_ non-union outfits are cheats? Gee, you don't think anyone could figure that out?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> I don't know you're the one that brought this whole thing up. You tell me.



I'm forgetful. Care to show me where?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Then what's the point of claiming _some_ non-union outfits are cheats? To point out that _some_ non-union outfits are cheats? Gee, you don't think anyone could figure that out?



A, O.K., What point are you trying to make then??


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Then what's the point of claiming _some_ non-union outfits are cheats? To point out that _some_ non-union outfits are cheats? Gee, you don't think anyone could figure that out?



Maybe because you and others usually jump into union topics with sly remarks that put them in bad light and put all unions and it's members in one basket?

So maybe he's only pointing out that the non-union side isn't perfect either? I don't know... that's what I'm gathering from it.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> A, O.K., What point are you trying to make then??



Trying to figure out what _your_ point is.

"Some non-union contractors cheat their employees!" OK, well, like, DUH!


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I get it. All union electricians always tell the truth. Non-union electricians are always liars. I keep forgetting that.



From here.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> From here.



Now, what about the contractors, which is what we're talking about.:whistling2:


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Now, what about the contractors, which is what we're talking about.:whistling2:



Are you simple? Do you really need to have things handed to you in detail. I don't know you but I'm willing to bet you're fairly intelligent to figure it out. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> Are you simple? Do you really need to have things handed to you in detail. I don't know you but I'm willing to bet you're fairly intelligent to figure it out. :no:


Yeah, I'm simple. I'm also upset, I can't get over it, I don't have my glasses on and I've never seen IBEW on strike.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> This is a good example of what I have been posting. All locals in the IBEW that I know of have a NO STRIKE CLAUSE in their contracts. This go to the adage I like to use if you look for black you will find black. Bob (not trying to pick on you) did you have this clip somewhere saved on your computor or just knew exactly where it was located? Ask yourself WHY??? It certainly does not spread joy among those of us on this site. As Vic has stated unions only account for maybe 10-20% of the electricians but we are to blame for the majority of the problems we all face? (that math just does not add up) I myself have made many sacrifices for all working class(union and nonunion alike) I am not asking for pat on the back, money and or respect. It is something that I believe has to be done by someone and if not me then who? Bob I have seen glints of good nature on your post as well as deep rooted hostilty. I am not on this site to bring any ill will and from what I have seen by others that have identified themself as union members do not mean to harm anyone. We can get along, but we have to make the effort.


 ELECTRICMANSCOTT I reposted to make it easier for you to reread your mistakes in an earlier post, now if you insist on being hostile and or biased then you have that right good luck to you and let us know how that works for you. I have nothing to hide if you have questions then ask them but to assume that you know how a person thinks and then post, that my friend is shallow and shows something is lacking in your persona. I have extended a kind thought with this said thread for haters to turn into a bastard with their only intent is to inflick insults and slurs(again traits of a shallow personality) First we are humans(I am God fearing) then we also ply the same trade(unless you just enjoy discussing the elctrical trade) we have many of the same problems past and present.We can continue to have hostile thoughts against each other which is just plain negative, or we can open our line of communications with hopes of helping each other and being more productive humans.I guess everyone some time in their life has to come to terms with their self in order to grow.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> ELECTRICMANSCOTT I reposted to make it easier for you to reread your mistakes in an earlier post, now if you insist on being hostile and or biased then you have that right good luck to you and let us know how that works for you. I have nothing to hide if you have questions then ask them but to assume that you know how a person thinks and then post, that my friend is shallow and shows something is lacking in your persona. I have extended a kind thought with this said thread for haters to turn into a bastard with their only intent is to inflick insults and slurs(again traits of a shallow personality) First we are humans(I am God fearing) then we also ply the same trade(unless you just enjoy discussing the elctrical trade) we have many of the same problems past and present.We can continue to have hostile thoughts against each other which is just plain negative, or we can open our line of communications with hopes of helping each other and being more productive humans.I guess everyone some time in their life has to come to terms with their self in order to grow.


I agree with Scott, you a one sided fool. 

You are mad at me because I posted an example of a poor union member, instead of being upset at that persons actions you are upset at the messenger. That says so much about _you_


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

What's the difference (other than rough language) between a union picketeer trying to protect his job, and a Fortune 500 company execs adopting poison pills to ruin a buyout? Same stunt...acceptable only when done by those who wear tassled loafers?

:whistling2:Just sayin...


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I vote Noah for the Douche Bag of the week award.....:thumbsup:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> I agree with Scott, you a one sided fool.
> 
> You are mad at me because I posted an example of a poor union member, instead of being upset at that persons actions you are upset at the messenger. That says so much about _you_


 I am not mad at you.Frustrated at the situation, instead of trying to help with a problem we all face you brought out a post that you should have known would incite hostility, WHY? Is it your intent to stir ill will towards our fellow electrical workers? My stance on many subjects are not always popular with union or nonunion persons but I do respect myself and have no need to hide behind any persona(such as captkirk) If we all spent 1% of all the effort we use toward hate on just trying to be nice then the world would be a better place.I do try to look for the best in people instead of harping on that 1 mistake or error that was made 16 years ago.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> I am not mad at you.Frustrated at the situation,


Well, then, I have the solution to your frustrations:



Brother Noah said:


> If we all spent 1% of all the effort we use toward hate on just trying to be nice then the world would be a better place.


If you just resolve that this is never going to happen, your frustrations will melt away.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

If Noah aint mad at Bob... I am.

The man is a company suck up. Bob will turn around any and all of his subordinates to make the company an extra dime.

Bob is the kind of guy who tells all the hands on the job about how tight the bid is, and its probably awful low, so everyone needs to give extra on this job, and take it a little easier on the next one, and that next one ends up a repeat of the same scenario all over again.

Bob is either really stupid and gives all this money left on the table to the bossman, or he is really smart, and takes home a fat bonus he has sworn to Christ hisself never to tell the help about. Either way, Bob is a master at getting more out of the help than he gives them, and whether he turns hisself around too, remains to be seen.

What Bob's help does not know, is that their package is sub-par to their union competitor's package. They do not know that the contractor keeps that substantial difference in his pocket, and Bob's too, if Bob is as smart as he says he gets a piece of pie to perpetuate the subterfuge. All the stories about the money left on the table going back to the end-user, GC, whoever, is a load of crock.

The difference between union and non-union is all that money left on the table that goes in the non-union contractor's pocket. That's the difference that counts the most. Those contractors will fight tooth and nail to avoid any kind of collective bargaining. I like it when they cry, 'Thief!' like people colluding together are stealing what belongs to them when they ask for decent health benefits and a decent retirement.

The only people on this forum who disagree with this post are non-union contractors, they don't want this issue openly discussed, as it dis-credits the BS they spread about our labor organization.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Well, then, I have the solution to your frustrations:
> 
> If you just resolve that this is never going to happen, your frustrations will melt away.


 Out of all that I post this is all you can highlight? Are you yourself a hate monger? mdshunk is your intent to spread hate between us?I will repeat for your benefit if you look for black you will find black.With all the time you spent with that last post if you would have had just one good intention your day would have been different.Why do you feel the need to spread hate mdshunk? Has life got you down? Is there anything we can do to help you and your's?WE all need to mature sooner or later.I do wish you luck with dealling with your life and happiness.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> If Noah aint mad at Bob... I am.
> 
> The man is a company suck up. Bob will turn around any and all of his subordinates to make the company an extra dime.
> 
> ...



Even if all of this is true, what business is it of yours and your union? Why does that give you the right to harass and intimidate guys who WILLINGLY show up at their job everyday? It doesn't and that's the bottom line. Mind your business and there is no hostility. The union mentality is much like a gang of whiny kids, if we can't have EVERYTHING our way we throw a tantrum.

Now will somebody PLEASE give Noah a hug for cryin' out loud. :laughing:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Out of all that I post this is all you can highlight? Are you yourself a hate monger? mdshunk is your intent to spread hate between us?I will repeat for your benefit if you look for black you will find black.With all the time you spent with that last post if you would have had just one good intention your day would have been different.Why do you feel the need to spread hate mdshunk? Has life got you down? Is there anything we can do to help you and your's?WE all need to mature sooner or later.I do wish you luck with dealling with your life and happiness.


Wow, you got all of that out of two sentences I wrote? You must be a damn psychic or something. 

Let me clarify... if you quit worrying about something that will likely always exist (which is not the same as spreading hate, by the way), then it doesn't become a matter that should cause any stress. If my favorite color was green, I wouldn't be upset about the sky being blue. It always has been, and always will be, blue. Myself, I think I'm overwhelmingly happy. Reason being, I don't spend time worrying about stuff I can't change, and don't put any foolish effort into even trying to change those situations. There's only so much intellectual effort to go around, and it's more profitably spent on endeavors where they can be of real benefit. 

When I read your writings, I think back to beauty contest interviews where the model says she wants "world peace". Give me a frikkin break.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

i personally could give two ****s less about the unions; im not saying that those of you who are in them are satan, im just saying that the union way is not the way for me. but there isn't really a union for alarm guys so oh well; but seriously all the electricians i have worked with that have been in the union and all have been pretty good guys. same goes with the non union electricians they to were good guys. Both the union and non union guys knew what they were doing and were pleasent to work around


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Wow, you got all of that out of two sentences I wrote? You must be a damn psychic or something.
> 
> Let me clarify... if you quit worrying about something that will likely always exist (which is not the same as spreading hate, by the way), then it doesn't become a matter that should cause any stress. If my favorite color was green, I wouldn't be upset about the sky being blue. It always has been, and always will be, blue. Myself, I think I'm overwhelmingly happy. Reason being, I don't spend time worrying about stuff I can't change, and don't put any foolish effort into even trying to change those situations. There's only so much intellectual effort to go around, and it's more profitably spent on endeavors where they can be of real benefit.
> 
> When I read your writings, I think back to beauty contest interviews where the model says she wants "world peace". Give me a frikkin break.


 Do you really think of yourself as a good example of this board? Even with some sparks of intellect you will hold yourself back with your biased slant on life. Electricmanscott I do not need hugs to make me happy but I do enjoy seeing positive efforts in getting along rather than all this hostility.I am not asking for world peace just an effort to be made towards peace instead of foolish hate. We can get along, but it takes effort not hostility.So now mdshunk while you ponder what your reply to the querry will be, why not trying just once to extend a gentlemans words instead of a poisonous verse?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

My biased slant in life is known to other people as a dose of realism. I'm not sure if it's holding me back in life or not, but I am stress free because of it. For that reason, I will keep on doing what I'm doing. 

Seems like you're in for the long haul. Cue the music...


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

mdshunk at the bottom of all your post your statement indicates you want god to take our president, now that not playing purty is it? It is your story you can tell as you like. I only wished you would have spent that same amount of effort trying to get along instead of the belief we are destine to be life long enemies.What is it this time maybe my hair cut is not like yours or I actually worked with a felon before or maybe its all because of that nasty U word. Do you not feel satsfaction when you complete a job well and have been productive? I do but being productive and negative do not go well together.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> mdshunk at the bottom of all your post your statement indicates you want god to take our president, now that not playing purty is it? It is your story you can tell as you like. I only wished you would have spent that same amount of effort trying to get along instead of the belief we are destine to be life long enemies.What is it this time maybe my hair cut is not like yours or I actually worked with a felon before or maybe its all because of that nasty U word. Do you not feel satsfaction when you complete a job well and have been productive? I do but being productive and negative do not go well together.


uh... okay? :laughing:

Another word for "getting along" is "compromise". You'll just have to ignore those of us who have formed solid opinions and are not willing to compromise. "Getting along" is a recipe for mediocrity. I don't know anything about you, but I know a lot about me. I am far from mediocre. You'd be hard pressed to find an instance where I chose to "spread hate", but you can find a good many instances where I have let my opinion be known. I can see how, when an opinion is expressed that is contrary to yours, how you could take that as being negative. If it's different than yours, it is absolutely the mathematical negative, but to the person expressing it, it's simply their opinion... neither negative or positive. Just another fact, in the mind of the person with the opinion, much the same as if we said the sky was blue.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I'd just like to point out, that it seems like it's the union who can't get along, I never see non union guys crying and whining about not getting a particular job, I see union guys do it all the time, A non union carpenter has never filled my conduits with liquid nails, it's happened twice on union jobs, and finally the union protects loser workers and pays them more than their worth.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> uh... okay? :laughing:
> 
> Another word for "getting along" is "compromise". You'll just have to ignore those of us who have formed solid opinions and are not willing to compromise. "Getting along" is a recipe for mediocrity. I don't know anything about you, but I know a lot about me. I am far from mediocre. You'd be hard pressed to find an instance where I chose to "spread hate", but you can find a good many instances where I have let my opinion be known. I can see how, when an opinion is expressed that is contrary to yours, how you could take that as being negative. If it's different than yours, it is absolutely the mathematical negative, but to the person expressing it, it's simply their opinion... neither negative or positive. Just another fact, in the mind of the person with the opinion, much the same as if we said the sky was blue.


So a prayer to god to take our president is one of your solid opinions that you are not willing to compromise?ON another thread a kid 23 I think asked for advice of getting a job as a convicted felon, you did everything in your post to shun him from ever getting a job as far you were concerned all because he got into a fight and broke someones nose 4 or 5 years ago, that I disagree with, but thats not what we are talking about is it? We can get along if we tried but is what you are saying is you would not even try because you are biased ? You can try and play with the words but if you are biased you have hate therefore you have limited your abilities and its possible our peace. We can get along if we try.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> We can get along if we try.


I don't care to try. I see that as a futile effort, and an utter waste of time. Might as well ask for world peace.

A "bias" is an opinion formed over time. An opinion so solidly formed, that it ranks the same as fact. Biases form the foundation of effective and speedy decision making.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I don't care to try. I see that as a futile effort, and an utter waste of time. Might as well ask for world peace.
> 
> A "bias" is an opinion formed over time. An opinion so solidly formed, that it ranks the same as fact. Biases form the foundation of effective and speedy decision making.


 I guess it is your story if you say it is so it must be true to you. Never thought I would see a person try to compare bias in even the same sentence with fact but it is the one and only mdshunk.Once again we can get along.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> I guess it is your story if you say it is so it must be true to you. Never thought I would see a person try to compare bias in even the same sentence with fact but it is the one and only mdshunk.Once again we can get along.


You're putting an awful lot of effort into trying to solve a problem that requires no solution.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> Never thought I would see a person try to compare bias in even the same sentence with fact


Facts and biases are not mutually exclusive.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Brother Noah,
You are wading into a pool where some are forced to think of "ME" instead of "WE". 
I don't think there are very many non-union electricians here that are not owner's of their own business.
If there are, they do not have an opportunity to change their situation and unfortunate mentality at this point in time. 
They are doing the same work and paid less. 
When this happens to women, they want equal pay.
What do they tell their family when they bring home less money and out of that little bit, they are expected to pay for their family's health care and somehow put money away to retire on?

I would guess that 99% of the non-union guys on this forum are contractors and %99 of the union guys here are not contractors.
You are not speaking to people that are willing to give to other side.

Move on and enjoy life as Marc suggested.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Brother Noah,
> 
> They are doing the same work and paid less.
> When this happens to women, they want equal pay.
> What do they tell their family when they bring home less money and out of that little bit, they are expected to pay for their family's health care and somehow put money away to retire on?


Perfect example of the union entitlement mentality. Absolutely perfect.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> I'd just like to point out, that it seems like it's the union who can't get along, I never see non union guys crying and whining about not getting a particular job, I see union guys do it all the time, A non union carpenter has never filled my conduits with liquid nails, it's happened twice on union jobs, and finally the union protects loser workers and pays them more than their worth.


Exactly. As usual, "Noah the Fake" completely ignores this post while spewing the "let's get along" baloney which he has proven means as long as you do it my way. 

Noah. There is no hostility from the non union sector, or as you very nice people would refer to us, rats, scabs, etc, toward the union. We go about our business and do our jobs willingly. The hostility comes form your side as for some reason you have to meddle in everybody's business. There is one reason and one reason only. Entitlement. Just as the union members feel they are entitled to whatever they can grab, the pinky ring wearers feel they are entitled to ALL work. 

If the unions true motivations were to help you "feed you family" or "put food on your table" (two meaningless talking points) the unions would not be harassing and intimidating other workers who are doing just that simply because they are not part of the organization.

Noah the Fake, if you are really looking to promote peace and harmony, (which is obviously a load of crap) you would do better to start by looking in the mirror and at those you surround yourself with. That is where the hostility lays. But since you are only here as a union shill I won't expect this will happen.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> "feed you family" or "put food on your table" (two meaningless talking points)


Gotta love talking points, they are great at distracting attention from the real issues.

_What about the children?_ :laughing:

Oh wait someone did bring that into the discussion


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)




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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Perfect example of the union entitlement mentality. Absolutely perfect.


Scott, you are a small non-union shop so I would imagine that you charge the most you can for your working time and I am sure you do well for yourself.

The other side of the coin is this,

We are entitled to what we earn.
I spent many years getting an education and maintaining my license. If I can negotiate a higher wage because of that, I will. 
I am entitled to what I earn.
If you are willing to except less wages for the same work, I could care less.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Your statements are contradictory

Also, you are "entitled" to what someone is willing to pay you not what you want someone to pay you.





jrannis said:


> Brother Noah,
> 
> They are doing the same work and paid less.
> What do they tell their family when they bring home less money and out of that little bit, they are expected to pay for their family's health care and somehow put money away to retire on?





jrannis said:


> We are entitled to what we earn.
> I spent many years getting an education and maintaining my license. If I can negotiate a higher wage because of that, I will.
> I am entitled to what I earn.
> If you are willing to except less wages for the same work, I could care less.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Your statements are contradictory
> 
> Also, you are "entitled" to what someone is willing to pay you not what you want someone to pay you.


What color is the sky in your world??

Would you take less for a service change just because a customer felt like paying you less.
I would prefer to have a written agreement in place for my work, I'm sure you do to. Its the smart way of doing business. :thumbsup:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Would you take less for a service change just because a customer felt like paying you less.


I might or I could walk, it is very simple.





> I would prefer to have a written agreement in place for my work,


Sure if I wrote it.

But not if someone else did it for me. I prefer to know I make what I make based on me not what a group has been able to strong arm for everyone.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

jrannis said:


> What color is the sky in your world??
> 
> Would you take less for a service change just because a customer felt like paying you less.
> I would prefer to have a written agreement in place for my work, I'm sure you do to. Its the smart way of doing business. :thumbsup:


 
Right now it is clear blue! :thumbup:

What is also clear is that you can't get past the entitlement mentality. 

If I needed the work you bet your ass I would take less for the job. It happens every day in this business. The customer is not obligated to pay me what I want, like it or not. Just as I am not "entitled" to get what I want for that job. I fugure a price, present it, then THEY decide if they want to pay it. If we are in agreement, then we each sign a contract. It is that simple.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I might or I could walk, it is very simple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. Well said! :thumbsup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Right now it is clear blue! :thumbup:
> 
> What is also clear is that you can't get past the entitlement mentality.
> 
> I fugure a price, present it, then THEY decide if they want to pay it. If we are in agreement, then we each sign a contract. It is that simple.


I love the way you Rush and Beck listeners parrot the word "Entitlement".

I have to agree with you on the last paragraph. :thumbsup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

jrannis said:


> I love the way you Rush and Beck listeners parrot the word "Entitlement".


I don't listen to either of those guys, but the word "entitlement" is meaningful to me, so I suppose it's a good word choice. (I might agree with both of those guys, but I also find them both too obnoxious to listen to).

My Dad used to use that same idea, when he often said, "They think the world owes them a living". I really can't stomach people who think that anyone owes them anything. You either earn it yourself, or someone gives it to you out of the goodness of their heart. Those are the only two choices, the way I see life. No one owes any other man anything.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I might or I could walk, it is very simple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your really convinced that our contracts are strong armed and not negotiated??

There's over 300 contractors in my local. Did little old local 98 "strong arm"
each and every contractor in the local?

The funniest part about the whole thing is the majority of our biggest and most successful contractors have been organized. A few of the big boys even approached the local about signing.

This strong arming that you think exists is really a figment of a way over active imagination.

You've had a couple of bad experiences with picket lines and I understand, but your really starting to get reality and make-pretend mixed up.
Maybe you have post traumatic stress disorder from dealing with those picket lines. You should get some help, no sense going through life paranoid.


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Your really convinced that our contracts are strong armed and not negotiated??
> 
> There's over 300 contractors in my local. Did little old local 98 "strong arm"
> each and every contractor in the local?
> ...



I'll say it again... but yet again it will fall on deaf ears. Because you know... the big bad union is evil ya know.


Contracts... when it comes to pay is the "MINIMUM" allowed. If Bob's boss wants to pay him $100 over scale and give him a car, house, "girlfriend" and a big bag of skittles he's allowed to do that.

And I don't want to hear how the contractor can't do that when everyone's pay is oh so high. I've worked along side many union electricians who got over scale and an expense account.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

I hear this word "entitlement" thrown around a lot lately. The only thing that anyone is "entitled" to in the union world is what's defined by the contract.

Nothing more nothing less. That's the idea of a contract. But I guess that makes us evil.:devil::devil2: 

When the ball players sign their contract's does that mean they have an entitlement problem?? These guy's get millions upon millions of dollars and everybody cheers for them!!!!! 
Hell even guy's that will never see the field get a minimum that is more then what most of us will ever see.


Oh, I know they're suppose to take whats offered to them and be grateful.
The owner is the only one aloud to make money.

Seems to me the contractors are the ones who have entitlement issues.
They think there aloud to make all the rules despite what the law says, they feel entitled to dictate all the terms of employment all the time and when they can't they cry like giant spoiled babies


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> When the ball players sign their contract's does that mean they have an entitlement problem?? These guy's get millions upon millions of dollars and everybody cheers for them!!!!!
> Hell even guy's that will never see the field get a minimum that is more then what most of us will ever see.


The difference is almost anyone can do an electrians job and few can do the sports players job.

But I know, I know the rules of supply and demand are just untruths put out by management types to keep the workers in line.:laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

jrannis said:


> I love the way you Rush and Beck listeners parrot the word "Entitlement".



I love the way you Obots use statements like that as an argument. :laughing:

I don't listen to those clowns. The word is the best choice for the way you make your case.

Nobody owes me anything. I owe nobody anything. I am not entitled to anything based solely on the fact that I am employed by someone other than a minimum wage set forth by the Government. Nothing more. I am free to work wherever I want and wherever I feel I can get the best deal for myself. If I choose to work somewhere that pays less than you think I should be paid, and by you I mean the "union", what business is it of yours and what gives you the right to try to prevent me from doing so. Can ANYBODY give me a valid answer to that last question? 




slickvic277 said:


> Your really convinced that our contracts are strong armed and not negotiated??


I wouldn't say all contracts are strong armed but I would say many are negotiated with strong armed tactics.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I work hard for my "entitlements" :thumbsup:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> The difference is almost anyone can do an electrians job and few can do the sports players job.
> 
> But I know, I know the rules of supply and demand are just untruths put out by management types to keep the workers in line.:laughing:



So because more people could be an electrician then a ball player we should be treated like lesser men and women.

I feel sorry for the guy's who work under you Bob, you must really be loved

I know, I know, you don't care what others think. That's a sad way to be.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> I hear this word "entitlement" thrown around a lot lately. The only thing that anyone is "entitled" to in the union world is what's defined by the contract.
> 
> Nothing more nothing less. That's the idea of a contract. But I guess that makes us evil.:devil::devil2:
> 
> ...



I can't even come up with a response to this other than for lack of a better phrase I'll use one that is very tired, you have certainly drank the kool aid.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> So because more people could be an electrician then a ball player we should be treated like lesser men and women.
> 
> I feel sorry for the guy's who work under you Bob, you must really be loved
> 
> I know, I know, you don't care what others think. That's a sad way to be.


This is just mind boggling. 

Is it jealousy that causes this train of thought? That's the only thing I can think of based on your posts.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Your really convinced that our contracts are strong armed and not negotiated??
> 
> There's over 300 contractors in my local. Did little old local 98 "strong arm"
> each and every contractor in the local?


Do I think a thug was sent to each contractors office or home and worked the guy over Soprano style?

Hell no.

But 'strong arm tactics' are not limited to acts of violence.

Do I think that threats, either up front or implied, of work slow downs, thefts, vandalism, crappy work that slows the job done etc. happens?

Hell yes, I think one or more of those things are often used in 'negotiations'. 

Or do the ECs just say yes because you asked nicely?



> This strong arming that you think exists is really a figment of a way over active imagination.


Sorry, I have worked long enough in Rhode Island to know that not everything bad about unions is fiction.



> You've had a couple of bad experiences with picket lines and I understand, but your really starting to get reality and make-pretend mixed up


.

The reality is that unions in this area at least are not the peace and love organizations you seem to suggest.




> Maybe you have post traumatic stress disorder from dealing with those picket lines. You should get some help, no sense going through life paranoid.


I am not the one hiding who I am. :no:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Exactly. As usual, "Noah the Fake" completely ignores this post while spewing the "let's get along" baloney which he has proven means as long as you do it my way.
> 
> Noah. There is no hostility from the non union sector, or as you very nice people would refer to us, rats, scabs, etc, toward the union. We go about our business and do our jobs willingly. The hostility comes form your side as for some reason you have to meddle in everybody's business. There is one reason and one reason only. Entitlement. Just as the union members feel they are entitled to whatever they can grab, the pinky ring wearers feel they are entitled to ALL work.
> 
> ...


I do have Brothers and Sisters that I work with and can call on in times of need but for the most part I go alone into your world of darkness.One does not have to agree with me to make a simple effort to get along, this is another lie you are trying to start.On this board I go by Brother Noah which is my name I have NO intent on hiding who or what I am but your attempt at calling me a fake does show frustration on your part.Just calm down and realize I am not demanding anything, I am not strong arming anyone, I am not the thug in the night that you had bad dreams about, I am but a human who does electrical work asking someone who ply's the same trade to have an ounce of compassion and just try to be nice to your fellow humans, no one will get mad if you do not do it exactly like they want(as you posted your fears were) a simple hello is a good start cause we can get along.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

That's great Noah. Is there a chance you will address anything in this thread that has been brought up? 


I'll try again.

Suppose I choose to work as an electrician for 10 bucks an hour or I am a business owner and I pay an electrician 10 bucks an hour. Why is that any business of a union that is not involved in this transaction between two willing participants whatsoever? 

As I said Noah, the hostilities you are so upset by come from YOUR group. Why is this and why are you so afraid or unwilling to address them. Is it because you know it is the truth?


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> That's great Noah. Is there a chance you will address anything in this thread that has been brought up?
> 
> 
> I'll try again.
> ...


 Well which is it are you the worker trying to feed his family or maybe the contractor living off the labor of a worker whom you pay slave wages. I will try not to call names(as the ones you mentioned in a previous post that I find childish) but I will tell you that I have very few fears in life(thank you for the concern though, it is a step in the right direction) I understand if you are a small contractor who has a hard time coming up with the bond so that you can bid work in hopes getting that said bid in order to support youself and family and even a few other electrians, I have no problem with that but if you had an opening would you hire me or discriminate because I belong to the IBEW? As ardent as you try to pretend to be you have at least shown enough interest on this topic to post questions, so we can get along, thank you.The IBEW is not exactly my group, I do belong but I have not agreed with their policy's 100%. At one time about 15 years ago I did sit on the other side of the desk and a nonunion contractor wanted to sign an agreement with our local and bring 8 guys in with them, for what ever reason our elected official did not want this so parted ways from that position.My stance on all our labor and safety has not been the most popular stance on either side but I claim it. If I have not answered your question please feel free to reword another querry.I am not afraid, especially of the truth.The truth will set us free.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Do I think a thug was sent to each contractors office or home and worked the guy over Soprano style?
> 
> Hell no.
> 
> ...


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Well Noah you have validated my questions by failing to answer them. You are nothing more than a one sided fraud preaching peace and harmony IF it is line with YOUR organization. Phony.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

You have to believe the fact that if these monster sized ECs couldn't make money using union labor, they would not sign the contract.
The fact is, NECA negotiates every word of the contract each time it comes up for renewal. The items they agree on are always a compromise from both sides knowing that the contractors are in control of the money, not the labor.

It really comes down to wanting to work as We or Me.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> Bob Badger;236515]Do I think a thug was sent to each contractors office or home and worked the guy over Soprano style?
> 
> Hell no.
> 
> ...


Bob if this was such a rampant problem why would there be any union contractors at all? You seem to have a lot of first hand knowledge about contract negotiations and union "tactics" please enlighten me? 




> Sorry, I have worked long enough in Rhode Island to know that not everything bad about unions is fiction.


I don't think anyone has ever implied that it was. I just think you tend to over blow things a tad. What's the worst thing that a picket line has ever done to you besides cause an inconvenience? 
.



> The reality is that unions in this area at least are not the peace and love organizations you seem to suggest.


Nobody ever suggested that they were. At the same time not all you non union guy's are honest, god fearing souls that everyone seems to make themselves out to be.






> I am not the one hiding who I am. :no:


Who's hiding???? I know your not implying me.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Bob if this was such a rampant problem why would there be any union contractors at all?


Have you heard of that other corrupt organization commonly referred to as the "Democrat" party? There's your answer.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Well Noah you have validated my questions by failing to answer them. You are nothing more than a one sided fraud preaching peace and harmony IF it is line with YOUR organization. Phony.


 Okay first you ask an open end question without all the details to which I requested for clarification(but I went ahead and gave you my opinion) I hear they have soundphonics and all kind of helpful tools on line if you are having difficulty understanding the English I have been posting(anything to help) It is good that you continue in your search for knowledge and in a way it amuses me but if you have a clear question I am sure you will receive a clear answer. Thank you again for your post and I look forward to your future questions.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Have you heard of that other corrupt organization commonly referred to as the "Democrat" party? There's your answer.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

You guy's are funny!! WHAT DON"T YOU GET??? They're ALL corrupt!!

Where were you at from 2001-2009? Was your head in the sand? The people who follow their party's blindly are sheep and the reason why the system will never change.

In the next election if a real leader presents themselves, I will vote for them no matter what their party affiliation is. But being your nothing but a piece of cattle for your "party" you'll vote for what ever toad is put up there.

I wish you luck living in complete darkness playing follow the leader.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Bob if this was such a rampant problem why would there be any union contractors at all? You seem to have a lot of first hand knowledge about contract negotiations and union "tactics" please enlighten me?


So you are sticking with 'We get what we want by just asking' OK you are obviously no longer credible. :no:






> I don't think anyone has ever implied that it was. I just think you tend to over blow things a tad. What's the worst thing that a picket line has ever done to you besides cause an inconvenience?


I have never been, nor ever seen anyone done physical harm by a picket.

I have had them try to stop me from earning my living through intimidation but I know that if a group of merit shop workers tried to keep you from your job you would be OK with that right? 





> Nobody ever suggested that they were. At the same time not all you non union guy's are honest, god fearing souls that everyone seems to make themselves out to be.


I have never said that, ever, never. There are plenty of asshole non-union guys but they do not have an organization decides where and what time they will act like assholes in a group. :no:





> Who's hiding???? I know your not implying me.


My name is Bob Badger, nice to meet you Mr 277. :laughing:


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Well which is it are you the worker trying to feed his family or maybe the contractor living off the labor of a worker whom you pay slave wages. I will try not to call names(as the ones you mentioned in a previous post that I find childish) but I will tell you that I have very few fears in life(thank you for the concern though, it is a step in the right direction) I understand if you are a small contractor who has a hard time coming up with the bond so that you can bid work in hopes getting that said bid in order to support youself and family and even a few other electrians, I have no problem with that but if you had an opening would you hire me or discriminate because I belong to the IBEW? The truth will set us free.


 Is this what you requested or just not the answer you wanted. Now years ago contractors would pay (or not sometimes)how ever they wanted to before certain laws were enacted, and now this contractor wants to know if I as a union worker would get upset if he were breaking the law by not paying the prevailing wage(yes) and he also wants to know why? We are out there earning wages for our family's to survive and for some greedy money hungry contractor to violate the law by taking some of the wages that were prescribed by law for me to get and steal it ,is this a joke or what? 
I only took your open end question to the right a tad and look how twisted it got.Try to be polite and ask a viable question and I will give you a viable answer, I do enjoy these chats though. Dont be so tough on yourself you are a decent person with a bit of charm(no matter how hard you try to hide it)


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bo


> b Badger;236666]So you are sticking with 'We get what we want by just asking' OK you are obviously no longer credible. :no:


Negotiations are give and take. Sometimes things go one way sometimes things go the other. I don't have to prove my credibility to anyone. This is an internet forum where anyone can say anything at all. I chose to believe people based on what they post as long as their consistent.

I never called you a liar, thanks for returning the favor. 



> I have never been, nor ever seen anyone done physical harm by a picket.
> 
> I have had them try to stop me from earning my living through intimidation but I know that if a group of merit shop workers tried to keep you from your job you would be OK with that right?


What ever is done in the confines of the law is fine with me. I have posted my experiences when I was non union and they get dismissed. Hey whatever it makes for good conversation:whistling2:
Maybe one day you'll post in detail exactly what was done to you.
That made you so intimidated.






> My name is Bob Badger, nice to meet you Mr 277. :laughing:



My first name is Victor. I have no desire to post my whole name on an internet forum. And from the looks of things most people like to stick with anonymity as well.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> You guy's are funny!! WHAT DON"T YOU GET??? They're ALL corrupt!!
> 
> ...




I follow no party. My answer was just too easy to pass up. But let's not ignore the fact that the unions have the Democrats in their pocket. I do agree thought that ALL politicians are worthless pieces of crap.


Follow the leader???? I am a self made man. I follow no one.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> If I choose to work somewhere that pays less than you think I should be paid, and by you I mean the "union", what business is it of yours and what gives you the right to try to prevent me from doing so. Can ANYBODY give me a valid answer to that last question?





electricmanscott said:


> Suppose I choose to work as an electrician for 10 bucks an hour or I am a business owner and I pay an electrician 10 bucks an hour. Why is that any business of a union that is not involved in this transaction between two willing participants whatsoever?



There are the two questions I asked Noah. They are perfectly clear, direct, and very legit. Will you answer them or just keep babbling?


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

Lol, Republicans and Democrats are identical. Google a political scoring chart. Every politician in America scores in the same spot: slightly right of center. Saying Obama is a socialist, or Bush is a nazi, is a little like saying 99 cents and $1.01 are worlds apart.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Bo


I am not the brother of Luke. :laughing:



> Negotiations are give and take. Sometimes things go one way sometimes things go the other.


Which means what?



> I don't have to prove my credibility to anyone.


No you do not have to at all, it only helps if you want people to take you seriously. 




> I never called you a liar, thanks for returning the favor.


Not exactly what I did but if you take it that way I cannot change it.





> What ever is done in the confines of the law is fine with me.


Yeah the law, and all things that are imposable to prove are also OK. 




> Maybe one day you'll post in detail exactly what was done to you.


No, because it is imposable to put it into words, becuse no single action is the cause, becuse it is imposable to prove, becuse it would sound foolish. All things the union counts on.

Oh all the cars in the parking lot had there tire flatted but it is just coincidence. etc. 

Or all our feeders where cut off at the connectors, (same job) or our stack of conduit was pissed on (different job)

But I know I cannot prove those where union member actions they just only seem to happen during union problems ... probably just a coincidence right? 





slickvic277 said:


> My first name is Victor. I have no desire to post my whole name on an internet forum. And from the looks of things most people like to stick with anonymity as well.


That is all fine, nothing wrong with hiding, just don't go around calling me paranoid when I am easy to find.:laughing


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> There are plenty of asshole non-union guys...


There are more asshole union foremen out there than asshole non-union foremen.

Because the agreement keeps workers in bondage to the employer in a certain way, it is difficult for a man to leave, and gain new employment unless the economy is at the peak of a bubble.

This gives asshole foremen an advantage when workers are restrained from moving about between employers freely, you see, the sweatshop contractor puts a screamer in charge, and every man has to put his pride aside, maybe bend over, or he can sit home for a long time.

Non-union, if a man doesn't like the way he's treated, he can walk, and if he's good, be employed by next week.

Union, if a man doesn't like the way he's treated, he can't quit out right, because he could be on the books forever while being denied unenjoyment for a QUIT. This is the one aspect of the system that works against the worker, and it has got to change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you see Bob, we give up certain freedoms in order to gain other compensation through collective bargaining.

In spite of the above, I am still 100% for the IBEW, a rising tide lifts all boats.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> There are the two questions I asked Noah. They are perfectly clear, direct, and very legit. Will you answer them or just keep babbling?


 NO Habla ENGLISH? I have answered your 2 questions in English, now its time for your imagination to work overtime to try and figure out how you will explain how Brother Noah did not answer your quetions when it has already been posted twice.Maybe glasses are needed now? I have no problem with anyone taking a job for $10 an hour. I do have a problem if you are an unscruplious contractor paying this worker $10 an hour when the prevailing law states you are to pay them $39.95 and hour but YOU put that extra dough in YOUR back pocket. I am writing this real slow in hopes of you catching on electricmanscott, any more silly questions you want to dance around. I guess I can look at the positive aspects of carrying on conversation with you on the web, I do get a lot of practice typing thank you pal, but I do wish you luck on that problem of yours.I also look forward to you posing more silly questions.


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Non-union, if a man doesn't like the way he's treated, he can walk, and if he's good, be employed by next week.
> 
> Union, if a man doesn't like the way he's treated, he can't quit out right, because he could be on the books forever while being denied unenjoyment for a QUIT. This is the one aspect of the system that works against the worker, and it has got to change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Wow, that sucks. Is that pretty much standard in all unions, or just a specific local?


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## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

millerdrr said:


> Wow, that sucks. Is that pretty much standard in all unions, or just a specific local?



Yes and no. Around here. You could leave any shop you want by asking to get a lay off. If times are good and you do that you'll go back to work within a day or so with a new shop. If times are bad... well why would you want to do that? And if it is something you would want to do what does it matter if you ride the bench for a while?


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## millerdrr (Jun 26, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> within a day or so


Oh....I had always heard that guys waited months or years for a new job.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

If you have a nasty PM, he will try to push a QUIT on you.

Chris says it may be okay in his local, but some locals that are not in big cities, moving down the road could mean a looooong time on the book. How long does it take in a suitcase local to move through the book? 

I am not in a suitcase local, but I can empathize.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> NO Habla ENGLISH? I have answered your 2 questions in English, now its time for your imagination to work overtime to try and figure out how you will explain how Brother Noah did not answer your quetions when it has already been posted twice.Maybe glasses are needed now? I have no problem with anyone taking a job for $10 an hour. I do have a problem if you are an unscruplious contractor paying this worker $10 an hour when the prevailing law states you are to pay them $39.95 and hour but YOU put that extra dough in YOUR back pocket. I am writing this real slow in hopes of you catching on electricmanscott, any more silly questions you want to dance around. I guess I can look at the positive aspects of carrying on conversation with you on the web, I do get a lot of practice typing thank you pal, but I do wish you luck on that problem of yours.I also look forward to you posing more silly questions.



Nice spin fraud. Avoid the question, twist the subject, take pot shots. I like it. More evidence that you are a phony. Some of these guys here and I have nothing in common and see nothing in the same light but I respect that they have an opinion and their own view on whatever the subject happens to be. You are not one of them.

If you care to answer the questions I asked, only the questions as written, not what you are trying to make them say, (hint prevailing wage is not an issue) I might respond but otherwise as far as I'm concerned you are relegated to trollville.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Noah ...get a life..... No here really cares what you think..


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Nice spin fraud. Avoid the question, twist the subject, take pot shots. I like it. More evidence that you are a phony. Some of these guys here and I have nothing in common and see nothing in the same light but I respect that they have an opinion and their own view on whatever the subject happens to be. You are not one of them.
> 
> If you care to answer the questions I asked, only the questions as written, not what you are trying to make them say, (hint prevailing wage is not an issue) I might respond but otherwise as far as I'm concerned you are relegated to trollville.


 First ouch that hurts? The qestion that you have avoided asking is why the unions feel obligated to poke their nose in your business when you are making real good money paying your workers low wages and maybe even gouging the customer,You have not given enough details for a proper answer, I do appreciate the way you complain about me not giving you an answer so I can post the question you want to ask but are afraid to, therefore giving me the oportunity to post more, oh you are good, real good.It is good practice to dance once again though, thank you. What about my question would you refuse to hire me because I am union? Have you ever had anyone union apply for any of your jobs? did you hire any of them? Do you have work now?Come on hook a Brother up(lol) I am curious to how you treat other persons who belong to the union when it comes to matters of employment though?


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

captkirk said:


> Noah ...get a life..... No here really cares what you think..


 We can get along even if you are having a rough time all it takes is a little effort.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> We can get along even if you are having a rough time all it takes is a little effort.


i dont know how your not getting this so i will put it in english for you. not everyone is willing to make the effort to get along, i personally get along with both union and non union but you dont see me on here trying to build the bridge for someone else just drop it already your a broken record we got it the first ten times


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

bduerler said:


> i dont know how your not getting this so i will put it in english for you. not everyone is willing to make the effort to get along, i personally get along with both union and non union but you dont see me on here trying to build the bridge for someone else just drop it already your a broken record we got it the first ten times


 I have been doing this long enough to know that there are people that just refuse to make any effort to get along with others because of one biased reason or another but does not want to admit that they in fact are biased and refuse any kind gesture.In electricmanscott's case he has asked a question that I can not answer because of the way it is worded and or I have no way on knowing who has made which if any attack on him personally or it is just fears and phobias, but in all life I do believe we can all get along even if it means dealing with our own evils first.IF you have no desire to make an effort then admit your faults and live with who you are.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Brother Noah said:


> I have been doing this long enough to know that there are people that just refuse to make any effort to get along with others because of one biased reason or another but does not want to admit that they in fact are biased and refuse any kind gesture.


Look in the damn mirror and apply your thoughts to yourself before trying to 'fix' us.


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## bduerler (Oct 2, 2009)

noah did you not read what i said??? i said have no problem with union or non union guys i get along with everyone just fine. now what i dont understand is if you know that people are gonna give s hit about the whole thing why even bother. if i were in your shoes (but i am not), i would just give up your not going to change someones opinion by preaching to us. just let everyone choose their own path they dont want or need you as a guide. if they can get along great if not oh well just move on


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I think we should all gather at Ken's house and cook s'mores together. Works every time.


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