# Few questions for UNION boys



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

1. Depending on the needs of the hall at the time, you can test up to journeyman. Sometimes when the need is holding things back they put on JITs (journeymen in training).

2. The only thing taken out of the check is the assessment for hours worked, and the normal taxes and bs, nothing towards health or retirement benefits.

3. Depends on the local.


Best of luck, ten years from now you'll look back and know it was the best choice you ever made.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> 1. On packet it says pay is $11.80, I make more but I would be willing to take a cut to make it in the union but then I've heard you could test up a few years. Is this true and how high can you test up?


Not from apprentice in my expierence. I never understood having a guy working open shop as an electrician join a union to make less pay. In you case you would be a major benifit to any contractor 



> 2. Also have heard that your insurance is sorta paid for, by this I mean technichally you make say $50/hr then after you pay for your insurance and on your check you would make whatever your wage is. So basically your check reads 40 hours at $x.xx and the only thing coming out is taxes?


You actual pay is more commonly called the loaded rate, this is stuff that the contractor pays but if you were on an Davis Bacon open shop job this would be part of your take home.



> 3. Going through the JATC do you get the insurance benefits of question 2 if question 2 is even true?


Our apprentices get everything the J-men get after 3 months.


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## All_amped_up (Nov 12, 2007)

You would more than likely go into the IJ {or CE} program. it was created to get open shop guys in that have some experience and don't want to take a pay cut. Basically it's an apprenticeship stripped down, instead of 5 yrs, you would go to school for 3. The pay should be the same, 1st yr IJ is $17ish. Then goes up to $19ish 2nd yr, and $20ish last yr. After that, BIG $$ :thumbsup:

The ins. has gone down as far as being good ins. You have to bank a certain amount of hours which shouldn't be that hard, being an IJ and in school means you'll have work once you get out there. It's no cost to you.
If you do come in, go ahead and become a due paying member, lot of guys don't until they turn out. They are screwing themselves, when you are paying dues, you get the retirement that starts building up.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

All_amped_up said:


> If you do come in, go ahead and become a due paying member, lot of guys don't until they turn out. They are screwing themselves, when you are paying dues, you get the retirement that starts building up.


Huh? If you come in, you will pay dues. Not sure of the exact timing but I believe you have to become a member within 90 days. Not a choice.

Not sure Indy has a CE classification. I haven't heard anybody from Indy saying they do but not sure they don;t.

As to testing up; in my local, there are some that test through first year. The most I have seen is testing through 2nd year to start as a 3rd year. This guy had been an electrician for some time and has a PhD in an engineering field.

and just so you know, a CE is not and does not lead to a JIW. It is a classification all of it's own and does not qualify for a journeyman status.


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks guys I really do appreciate all the feed back. I'm really excited about having an opportunity to join the union. I go for the apptitude test on Jan 9 so hopefully Ill be there soon. As far as the testing up really if I could just test up a year or two that would be cool, I feel like I know alot but I also know there is still alot to be learned. I still want to learn the way the union wants me to do things.


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## Rong (Feb 23, 2008)

nap said:


> Huh? If you come in, you will pay dues. Not sure of the exact timing but I believe you have to become a member within 90 days. Not a choice.
> 
> Not sure Indy has a CE classification. I haven't heard anybody from Indy saying they do but not sure they don;t.
> 
> ...


 Quite right. If I had to do it I would go though JATC and skip the CE/CW program. I know it is a lower rate of pay but the best way to becoming a JW.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Rong said:


> Quite right. If I had to do it I would go though JATC and skip the CE/CW program. I know it is a lower rate of pay but the best way to becoming a JW.


In some locals.


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## pawpaw702 (Dec 13, 2008)

anonymousbikes said:


> Thanks guys I really do appreciate all the feed back. I'm really excited about having an opportunity to join the union. I go for the apptitude test on Jan 9 so hopefully Ill be there soon. As far as the testing up really if I could just test up a year or two that would be cool, I feel like I know alot but I also know there is still alot to be learned. I still want to learn the way the union wants me to do things.


Having been in LU 702 for 12 years, my advice to you is stay away from the CE/CW program. Do your 5 years of apprenticeship, and don't try to "test up". I took a hell of a pay cut when I got in, and it sucks, but going thru 5 years, creats a bond with your fellow class mates. You will learn Brotherhood, which is something the rats know nothing about. 

In Brotherhood, Paw Paw


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## All_amped_up (Nov 12, 2007)

Maybe each local does it different..... I was brought into 613 without knowing ANYTHING about the Union. I guess the hall was trying to get everyone they could in. I took some BS test and was classified as a IJ 6. I had been in the field prior to that for a few years and didn't want to take a HUGE pay cut.
But as far as becoming a due paying member unless I was taught wrong, I swore in, started work and started paying dues, after 90 days started school.

As far as the IJ or CW/CE program, there is a never ending argument weather or not it's good for the Union or not. They way I see it, if you want to bring some members in they had to have a trimmed down program for the guys that have worked in the field elsewhere {open shop} and can  do the work, just maybe not up on the book side of things, OR maybe even good with both, but the local wasn't going to give them a JW ticket...
Here in GA, and a few other states is a electrical school called IEC {Independent Electrical Contractors} it's the equivalent of the JATC. It's an open shop school with the same type system, have to work for a member contractor, they have a recognized 4 yr apprenticeship, and a 2 year PEP {professional electrician program} which is a 2 yr fast program {like the IJ} I was enrolled in that when I joined the union. So as far as me leaving my school {IEC} and come to the Union, I wasn't going to go through classes again, and take a cut in pay....
Anyway...sorry, I'm babbling :thumbup:


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

the reason for the CE classification is so they can have lesser paid workers on the job (than JIW) to do pipe bending and wire pulling. It allows a more competitive bid as the labor costs are reduced.


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

It also pushes qualified Union electricians out of the job picture until certain qualifications come up to do specialty calls that a CE cannot perform. This allows Kontractors to put in calls for CE/CW's to do basic rough in work until the more technical work comes in to play to where a JW gets only a shortcall. If they cannot do the work fully then they should be placed into an NJATC program to recieve the proper training.


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

As far as the schooling I have no problem doing it, in fact I feel like that would be the best thing for me. I have been in this trade for 5yrs. but have had no schooling at all, and while I feel like I have learned alot I just don't like the fact that everything I have learned was from other leadmen or people in the field. 

And the pay cut wouldn't be too terrible for me and knowing that in "x" amount of years Ill be making "x" amount of money is nice. I had just heard, from people that WEREN'T union, that you could test up a couple of years so I figured I'd just ask the people who have been there done that. :thumbsup:


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

anonymousbikes said:


> I had just heard, from people that WEREN'T union, that you could test up a couple of years so I figured I'd just ask the people who have been there done that. :thumbsup:


well, now you have heard it from a union member too that sometimes that is a possibility. Each individual JATC controls this for themselves. It surely wouldn't hurt to ask about it.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

pawpaw702 said:


> Having been in LU 702 for 12 years, my advice to you is stay away from the CE/CW program. Do your 5 years of apprenticeship, and don't try to "test up". I took a hell of a pay cut when I got in, and it sucks, but going thru 5 years, creats a bond with your fellow class mates. You will learn Brotherhood, which *in my opinion* is something the rats know nothing about.
> 
> In Brotherhood, Paw Paw


you forgot 3 words...


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> you forgot 3 words...


and what is YOUR'S ?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

DDB1205 said:


> and what is YOUR'S ?


NJATC doesn't teach reading comprehension?


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## pawpaw702 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> NJATC doesn't teach reading comprehension?


Actually that is a topic you should have covered in grade school. One of the mandatory skills neccesary to get into the app program is understanding what you read. I think DDB was asking your opinion as to rat (non Union) electricians knowing or not knowing about Brotherhood. All I've ever observed when around rats of any trade was all about themselves. When a rat electrician say in California gets hurt on a job, and can't work, do rat electricians across the country raise money for him? The Brotherhood is not merely about making more money, or benifits, its about what the name says...Brotherhood.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

pawpaw702 said:


> Actually that is a topic you should have covered in grade school. One of the mandatory skills neccesary to get into the app program is understanding what you read. I think DDB was asking your opinion as to rat (non Union) electricians knowing or not knowing about Brotherhood. All I've ever observed when around rats of any trade was all about themselves. When a rat electrician say in California gets hurt on a job, and can't work, do rat electricians across the country raise money for him? The Brotherhood is not merely about making more money, or benifits, its about what the name says...Brotherhood.


my opinion isn't what matters...but what you said is your opinion, not fact...simple as that...not saying it's right or wrong...quite frankly it's both...but at the end of your day it's your opinion...

btw...many of us 'rat' shops have been union (both as members and contractors)...so, my opinion is that your opinion is your opinion...

comprende?


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> my opinion isn't what matters...but what you said is your opinion, not fact...simple as that...not saying it's right or wrong...quite frankly it's both...but at the end of your day it's your opinion...
> 
> btw...many of us 'rat' shops have been union (both as members and contractors)...so, my opinion is that your opinion is your opinion...
> 
> comprende?


Oh its a fact bud, thousands of IBEW Brothers stand shoulder to shoulder across this country can and do prove it.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

DDB1205 said:


> Oh its a fact bud, thousands of IBEW Brothers stand shoulder to shoulder across this country can and do prove it.


what about the guys on the bench who go do picket duty in the morning and then work off the books for a 'rat' contractor in the afternoon? are they brothers or not?


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> my opinion isn't what matters...but what you said is your opinion, not fact...simple as that...not saying it's right or wrong...quite frankly it's both...but at the end of your day it's your opinion...
> 
> btw...many of us 'rat' shops have been union (both as members and contractors)...so, my opinion is that your opinion is your opinion...
> 
> comprende?


Oldman have you ever been a Union member?


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> what about the guys on the bench who go do picket duty in the morning and then work off the books for a 'rat' contractor in the afternoon? are they brothers or not?


 
There is a big difference in members and Brothers. Your ticket makes you a member your actions make you a Brother!!!!!


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> Oldman have you ever been a Union member?


me personally? no...but here is my background...

my father was local 3 for 13 yrs...came to NJ and became a signatory contractor for about 15 yrs...I grew up working summers for him (along side his union men)...

these days, we are actually building back up to become a union contractor again (we have our reasons) and I have over the years employed friends who are union JW when they were laid off...some of which we brought into the union with us, some just worked for us when we were a signatory...

I've seen it from all sides...and I will say, save some members who are stuck in the past, it's a different union today than in 1990...which from a contractors perspective is a positive.


btw: we are a 'rat' shop set up like any union shop...walk on site with your hand tools and get to work...do we have everything? nope, but we'll get what you need...

hence the opinion thing...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> There is a big difference in members and Brothers. Your ticket makes you a member your actions make you a Brother!!!!!


i've known many a 'brother' who were far from human, let alone brothers...i've known many a 'member' who was more brotherly than any 'brother'...

it's very political, as you know...kiss the right ass (BA, Steward, whomever) and you are a 'brother'...

what's the old saying "wanna see the world? piss off your BA"

don't mistake me for knocking unions, but please take with you the fact that I am knocking many 'union brothers' who are doing more to hurt them and their 'brothers' than help them...


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> me personally? no...but here is my background...
> 
> my father was local 3 for 13 yrs...came to NJ and became a signatory contractor for about 15 yrs...I grew up working summers for him (along side his union men)...
> 
> ...


Then you don't need to be talking about Brotherhood if you have never experienced it, just my opinion and a lot of the Brothers opinion also!!!!!


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> Then you don't need to be talking about Brotherhood if you have never experienced it, just my opinion and a lot of the Brothers opinion also!!!!!


i didn't realize i was talking about 'brotherhood'...i thought i was just clarifying one man's opinion as an opinion...my bad...i obviously am not worthy to speak with someone as well rounded as you...carry on

btw...do you feel better now? proud that you were able to tell me that? good for you, i'm happy for you...


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

heath443 said:


> Then you don't need to be talking about Brotherhood if you have never experienced it, just my opinion and a lot of the Brothers opinion also!!!!!


This goes back to my "Union Business" thread.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

DDB1205 said:


> This goes back to my "Union Business" thread.


much easier to bury your head in the sand with no one around to kick you in the ass...good luck with that...


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> i didn't realize i was talking about 'brotherhood'...i thought i was just clarifying one man's opinion as an opinion...my bad...i obviously am not worthy to speak with someone as well rounded as you...carry on
> 
> btw...do you feel better now? proud that you were able to tell me that? good for you, i'm happy for you...


 
That's my point. You don't know the difference. There is a BIG difference in being just a "member" and being a "Brother"


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> That's my point. You don't know the difference. There is a BIG difference in being just a "member" and being a "Brother"


so, why don't you educate me?


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

i think this forum has been infested with 2 worms.


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> so, why don't you educate me?


How many times have you taken up a collection for a co-worker that was sick and couldnt get to work to make some money?

Or taken up a collection for a co-worker that had passed away, to help the family with the mourning of his death and whatever bills his funeral had made?

What about knowing that anywhere you go in this country, you have family waiting on you with open arms?

I could keep going with this but some will never understand it nor would they allow themselves to become a true Brother to the IBEW.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

excuse me , 3


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

A Brother is someone who gives 8 for 8. A Brother helps his fellow brothers out when they are in need. A Brother does not suck ass to keep his job. A member is someone who just shows up for a pay check, does not help out his fellow brothers when they are in need, and will suck ass on anyone that he thinks will better his position. In other words the people I call "members" are just worms.


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

paul d. said:


> i think this forum has been infested with 2 worms.


Who would you be talking about?


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

heath443 said:


> A Brother is someone who gives 8 for 8. A Brother helps his fellow brothers out when they are in need. A Brother does not suck ass to keep his job. A member is someone who just shows up for a pay check, does not help out his fellow brothers when they are in need, and will suck ass on anyone that he thinks will better his position. In other words the people I call "members" are just worms.


Be careful Brother, these people have feelings and if you hurt them they will censor you and delete what you say.


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

heath443 said:


> Who would you be talking about?


That would be us, but he also said 3 so not even he knows what he is saying.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

DDB1205 said:


> Be careful Brother, these people have feelings and if you hurt them they will censor you and delete what you say.


please, don't worry about my feelings...i don't have the power to censor...but i am liking what i am hearing....keep it coming


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

DDB1205 said:


> That would be us, but he also said 3 so not even he knows what he is saying.


I know I was just wondering if paul d was man enough to say it. :thumbdown::furious::wallbash:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> I know I was just wondering if paul d was man enough to say it. :thumbdown::furious::wallbash:


hey, keyboard warriors, stay on topic...


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

Oldman what do you not understand? What else is there to say?


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## pawpaw702 (Dec 13, 2008)

paul d. said:


> i think this forum has been infested with 2 worms.


Please offer your definition of "worm"

Secondly....the difference between a Brother and a member. A member will do whatever it takes to get ahead, with no thought or concern about anyone else. Whether it is working through break, double booking, furlowing, book jumping, bringing tools not on the tool list, working OT for straight time, hauling contractor tools and materials in his personal truck, basically throwing the contract out of the window just to keep himself working. He never contributes to the Sick and Needy Fund by buying shirts, or what ever is being tipped (raffled)off. He is in the IBEW for one thing....money. 

A Brother will uphold the contract, and make the Kons uphold the contract. If another Brother is in need, he will offer whatever he can. It matters not whether the Brother is on the same job, or across the country. A Brother always has a spare bed, a hot meal, and traveling money if another Brother needs them. A Brother considers book jumpers, double bookers and furlowers as the lowest form of ilk in exsistance. As was posted previously, just because you have a yellow ticket in your pocket, you are not automaticly a Brother. You are a member. You earn the priviledge of being called a Brother by your actions. If you have never been in the IBEW, you will not understand. 

In Brotherhood, Paw Paw


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> Oldman what do you not understand? What else is there to say?


how does 'brotherhood' benefit the contractor....and ultimately the customer?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

pawpaw702 said:


> Please offer your definition of "worm"
> 
> Secondly....the difference between a Brother and a member. A member will do whatever it takes to get ahead, with no thought or concern about anyone else. Whether it is working through break, double booking, furlowing, book jumping, bringing tools not on the tool list, working OT for straight time, hauling contractor tools and materials in his personal truck, basically throwing the contract out of the window just to keep himself working. He never contributes to the Sick and Needy Fund by buying shirts, or what ever is being tipped (raffled)off. He is in the IBEW for one thing....money.
> 
> ...


so a basic could be a 'brother', but a 'shop mutt' can't? correct?


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

paul d. said:


> i think this forum has been infested with 2 worms.



This might be the root of the problem:
Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum (great ibew electrical discussion forum, talks about jatc scores, and so much more) - http://www.electriciantalk.com/

found here: Cool IBEW Sites

Just a heads up to all the loyal IBEW brothers who have joined here of late... 
ET.com is NOT an ibew discussion forum. Brothers are more than welcome to participate in any of the chatter on actual work or theory or anything else but before this gets out of hand **lay off** trying to twist every topic into an us vs them. It will get you more grief than joy and will undercut the value that the *occasional* pro organization comment could have.

In this one limited section of the forum... go for it. But understand that most merit shop guys aren't even looking at the words; let alone absorbing the message.


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> how does 'brotherhood' benefit the contractor....and ultimately the customer?


A Brother gives the contractor 8 for 8. 8 hours work for 8 hours pay!! Oldman how does sucking ass benefit the contractor?


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## pawpaw702 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> how does 'brotherhood' benefit the contractor....and ultimately the customer?


The #1 priorty is CRAFTSMANSHIP. If the Kon will give us the time to do the job properly, it will be put in in a craftsman like manner. Do the job once, and do it the right way. So many Kons want you to just get it done. Matters not what it looks like, as long as the lights come on, the pump pumps, ect. Most suck ass shop worms will not stand up to the Kon, for fear of losing their job. They will just throw it in, and most of the time, it has to be done again, so time wasn't saved. In the end, the customer will pay the same money, and have a substandard installation. We believe in 8 for 8, but we also take our breaks. For the most part, the Brotherhood itself is not about benifiting the Kon, its about the well being of the men and women in the IBEW. What will benifit the Kon is this, its the morals, ethics, and craftsmanship we stand for. 

In Brotherhood, Paw Paw


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> A Brother gives the contractor 8 for 8. 8 hours work for 8 hours pay!! Oldman how does sucking ass benefit the contractor?


when did you stop beating your wife?

your assumption about sucking ass, is the same as my assumption about you beating your wife...

ask a better question...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

pawpaw702 said:


> The #1 priorty is CRAFTSMANSHIP. If the Kon will give us the time to do the job properly, it will be put in in a craftsman like manner. Do the job once, and do it the right way. So many Kons want you to just get it done. Matters not what it looks like, as long as the lights come on, the pump pumps, ect. Most suck ass shop worms will not stand up to the Kon, for fear of losing their job. They will just throw it in, and most of the time, it has to be done again, so time wasn't saved. In the end, the customer will pay the same money, and have a substandard installation. We believe in 8 for 8, but we also take our breaks. For the most part, the Brotherhood itself is not about benifiting the Kon, its about the well being of the men and women in the IBEW. What will benifit the Kon is this, its the morals, ethics, and craftsmanship we stand for.
> 
> In Brotherhood, Paw Paw


i don't speak for all EC's, cause lord knows i don't agree with a bunch of them...but i'd love to charge a customer $10k to install something so you could take 2 weeks and do it perfectly...but I need to deal with the reality that they will only pay me $5000, and I need you to do it in a week...

commercial construction is about buying work..there is not one job out there that goes to low bidder, where the bidder isn't buying that work...his job, once awarded, is to do that work for a little as possible, so that he may make money on it. 

at the end of the day, isn't the goal of every field worker to make the boss money, so the boss stays in business and keeps the field worker working?


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

pawpaw702 said:


> Kon





pawpaw702 said:


> Kon





pawpaw702 said:


> Kon





pawpaw702 said:


> Kon


Just curious but why the K?


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## roland (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> you forgot 3 words...


Brother Paw Paw did not forget 3 words. It was self evident that he was expressing his opinion, otherwise he would have made it clear he was speaking for someone else. Also it was obvious that he was trying to make a distinction between the self absorbed individual who cares nothing for his fellow man and a "Brother". You asked another Brother here to educate you, and maybe how he put it wasn't up to your standard, so here's my 2 cents, and some wisdom from a hundred years or so back;

From "Teachings Of The Temple"

Brotherhood has become a word of reproach to some, a by-word bandied about from lip to lip with a careless jest, by others, through man's inability to discern the fundamental truth expressed by the word in all its purity and holiness. As a pearl, when dropped into mire and filth still retains its intrinsic worth and only requires cleaning to bring out its beautiful lustre, so the word Brotherhood may once more be made to shed the light of its splendor on a world torn apart by strife and dissension and all unbrotherliness; and thou, my child (whichever one thou art), hast thine own part to perform in this great work. That Brotherhood means literally all that is implied by the words "do unto others as you would that they should do unto you" is beyond controversy; and that no one of you is so situated as to be unable to keep this law; for it is a universal law, and whoever violates it brings upon himself or herself the karmic action of the law.

But by far the most pitiful of all the cowards of the present human race is the man or woman who prates of brotherhood, of divine love and law, who has donned a wolf's garment and hidden it with the garb of righteousness, for the purpose of preying on his weaker brethren;who has not even the courage of conviction; who can stand idly by and see his fellow workers spat upon, buffeted, torn to pieces by the inner as well as outer forces of rebellion, without lifting a finger to aid or succor, and who will join hand and voice with the hands and voices of common enemies, in order to destroy those brothers. And the strangest part of the whole strange, abnormal condition of such a one is his lack of appreciation of all that he is bringing upon himself, upon his loved ones; that he should be unable to perceive the character of the garment he has donned; or if he does perceive it he will not admit its character, even to himself, and so continues to lower himself into a slough of treachery and unbrotherliness, while knowing that he is part of the One Life, and that he cannot strike at his brother without having the blow descend on his own head.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you belong to a network of Brothers, that when one is hurting , we are all hurting? When one is in need, Brothers from all parts of the country pray for the one, and offer financial aid? Or do you belong to a class of people that seem oblivious to the needs of their own? Only concerned with their 4-wheeler payment?

In Truth, Light and Brotherly Love,
Brother Roland


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Roland,

that is good and well, but i will ask the question again....

"how does this brotherhood benefit the contractor? and ultimately the end consumer?"

and i'll add this 3rd part in "which will ultimately benefit the 'brotherhood' with more work and prosperity...

additionally i'll add, why does this 'brotherhood' seem to be quite elitist?


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm Glad to see your feeling better Brother Roland!!!!!


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Whaddaya know another brand new Electrician Talk poster that's in the "heath-dd04-pawpaw" super elite brotherhood of a$$holes. 

This union VS non union is getting ridiculous and out of control with a select few prodding fights everywhere they go. I'm almost ready to just stop coming here.

The Union forum is about pitting the Union against the non union people, it's supposed to be INFORMATIVE NOT DESTRUCTIVE.


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> Whaddaya know another brand new Electrician Talk poster that's in the "heath-dd04-pawpaw" super elite brotherhood of a$$holes.
> 
> This union VS non union is getting ridiculous and out of control with a select few prodding fights everywhere they go. I'm almost ready to just stop coming here.
> 
> The Union forum is about pitting the Union against the non union people, it's supposed to be INFORMATIVE NOT DESTRUCTIVE.


This thread is informative but when you close both eyes how can YOU learn?


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## collin.thomas (Apr 14, 2008)

DDB1205 said:


> This thread is informative but when you close both eyes how can YOU learn?





DDB1205 said:


> I am trying to understand why Union Members are discussing Union Business on an open forum with others that are not Union?:thumbdown:


So are you for or against sharing information?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

collin.thomas said:


> So are you for or against sharing information?


yes.....


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

heath443 said:


> I'm Glad to see your feeling better Brother Roland!!!!!


i think thats 4


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> Whaddaya know another brand new Electrician Talk poster that's in the "heath-dd04-pawpaw" super elite brotherhood of a$$holes.
> 
> This union VS non union is getting ridiculous and out of control with a select few prodding fights everywhere they go. I'm almost ready to just stop coming here.
> 
> The Union forum is about pitting the Union against the non union people, it's supposed to be INFORMATIVE NOT DESTRUCTIVE.


gildequick
Didn't I read somewhere on this site that you were trying to join the IBEW?


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

paul d. said:


> i think thats 4


Paul d what local are you out of?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

heath443 said:


> gildequick
> Didn't I read somewhere on this site that you were trying to join the IBEW?


he's already a 'member'


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## roland (Dec 13, 2008)

gilbequick said:


> Whaddaya know another brand new Electrician Talk poster that's in the "heath-dd04-pawpaw" super elite brotherhood of a$$holes.
> 
> This union VS non union is getting ridiculous and out of control with a select few prodding fights everywhere they go. I'm almost ready to just stop coming here.
> 
> The Union forum is about pitting the Union against the non union people, it's supposed to be INFORMATIVE NOT DESTRUCTIVE.


BYE.


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## pawpaw702 (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> Roland,
> 
> that is good and well, but i will ask the question again....
> 
> ...


I believe I answered this already. As far as more work, its going take getting the anti Union Repubs out, and the complete catastrophy they have caused corrected. Elitist??? Yes I guess we are. I'm very proud to be an elitist in the IBEW. I'm a second gen wireman, and followed in my Dads footsteps, and he likewise was proud to be an "elitist". we have the best Apprenticeship program of all the trades, we are the best trained and most experienced wiremen in the country, with a safety record second to none. Yes...I'm very proud of my IBEW Journeyman Wireman certificate. There again,....thats something you wouldn't understand.

And to the member calling us "assholes" Do you feel like a man now? Bet you wouldn't say that to our faces.

In Brotherhood, Paw Paw


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

roland said:


> BYE.


don't leave...we are just starting to become friends...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

pawpaw702 said:


> I believe I answered this already. As far as more work, its going take getting the anti Union Repubs out, and the complete catastrophy they have caused corrected. Elitist??? Yes I guess we are. I'm very proud to be an elitist in the IBEW. I'm a second gen wireman, and followed in my Dads footsteps, and he likewise was proud to be an "elitist". we have the best Apprenticeship program of all the trades, we are the best trained and most experienced wiremen in the country, with a safety record second to none. Yes...I'm very proud of my IBEW Journeyman Wireman certificate. There again,....thats something you wouldn't understand.
> 
> And to the member calling us "assholes" Do you feel like a man now? Bet you wouldn't say that to our faces.
> 
> In Brotherhood, Paw Paw


2 issues...if you think the democrats are good for you, good luck...you'll have work, but it's all public...taxpayer funded..so you will be working to pay more taxes..

2nd - thank you for admitting that you are not in favor of raising the industry, just helping yourself...it's good that you are honest...


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## roland (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> Roland,
> 
> that is good and well, but i will ask the question again....
> 
> ...


My friendly oldman, we did not organize this great union of wiremen and linemen to benifit the contractor. We organized to protect ourselves through the power of numbers, from the contractors. The time honored tradition of Brotherhood has taken on the "appearance" of an elitist group because of the brainwashing that has occurred over the past couple of generations. Being led by the greatest and mightiest of all elitists; the corporarate government. Of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations. When I began this trade oldman, the only true craftsmen working in this trade were union. We were union bred and trained to be union. Then the Reagon years and the union busting that has continued to today. There is nothing elite about one man helping another. Prosperity? Oldman, if you happen to prosper over the next 5 years, let us all know how you did it. This war against the unions is only the begining. We're
all going down this time.
Brother Roland


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## collin.thomas (Apr 14, 2008)

HEY does this look familiar to any of you?

If yoy scroll down to forums, blogs and post, there is a link to Electric Talk. Its a ****in Kon forum site. This could be fun!!! I'm going in Mommy! LOL 

In Brotherhood, Paw Paw

or...

I logged on to this site and they have a thread in there called "UNION TOPICS". We have Union members on there discussing Union business on an open forum with non-Union people. I think we need to go over there and set these people straight about what they are doing. I was edited when I called them worms and rats LOL, but I wasnt banned YET.
I hope that someone will stop by there, my words get jumbled the madder I get, I just wanna start breaking teeth.

Bro Rob

or...

I've already sent a couple of PMs to members there, and I started ****ing with a guy that has old Klien tools that he wants to trade for guns. I'm sure I'll get banned before its all said and done. There is also a link on the home page that is a forum for kons. I plan to have a little fun there too. 

In Brotherhood, Paw Paw

can barely make myself read this **** on that site. There's way to much Union bashing, by union members






















Heath Royal LU443

I cant believe what some of these people are saying, talk about complete ignorance. You Brothers and Sisters have GOT to sign up at this site http://www.electriciantalk.com/ go to the "Union Topics" Thread. Lets ALL educate the worms.

Bro Rob

how about you crawl back into your hole now....


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## roland (Dec 13, 2008)

oldman said:


> don't leave...we are just starting to become friends...


hey an oldman with a sense of humor...I was saying bye to the impertinent one who made the remarks about how sickened he was from having to endure my Brothers and I. So to him, I say Bye.


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

collin.thomas said:


> HEY does this look familiar to any of you?
> 
> If yoy scroll down to forums, blogs and post, there is a link to Electric Talk. Its a ****in Kon forum site. This could be fun!!! I'm going in Mommy! LOL
> 
> ...


Why dont you not hide behind this user name and let yourself be known. Obviously you know who I am why not be a man and let me know who you are. Why dont you let me know at the same place you got my writings from.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

roland,

do you know where the term "red neck" came from?

those days are gone, and the union did a fine job...the union led to greater conditions for all workers...

there was a time when the union was for 'all' workers...better conditions...better pay...etc...

those days are over...now the unions are about protectionism....

but some of the more progressive locals understand that in this day and age the union and the contractor are in bed together...they are no longer enemies, but rather teammates...

unfortunately, some 'brothers' cling to to the ancient notion that contractors are bad. 

it's these 'brothers' who will always stay basic, always rag about rats and shop mutts...

brotherhood can come in many forms, and many of us truly understand brotherhood through fraternal organizations or the like. 

so please, go back to IBEW Friends and Family, put out an all points bulletin, and bring over some intelligent 'brothers' who can debate...

thanks


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## heath443 (Dec 13, 2008)

DDB1205 said:


> Why dont you not hide behind this user name and let yourself be known. Obviously you know who I am why not be a man and let me know who you are. Why dont you let me know at the same place you got my writings from.


Yes please, we came in here under the same names as the other site. Why did you join under a different name?


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## collin.thomas (Apr 14, 2008)

DDB1205 said:


> Why dont you not hide behind this user name and let yourself be known. Obviously you know who I am why not be a man and let me know who you are. Why dont you let me know at the same place you got my writings from.


Why do you come here just to start problems? you can attack me here just as well as you can attack me there...


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

roland said:


> hey an oldman with a sense of humor...I was saying bye to the impertinent one who made the remarks about how sickened he was from having to endure my Brothers and I. So to him, I say Bye.


roland, as you know, there are 'union electricians' and 'union men'....among the 'union electricians' are some of the best men i know...among the 'union men' are most of the worst human beings and biggest worms i know...


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## collin.thomas (Apr 14, 2008)

heath443 said:


> Yes please, we came in here under the same names as the other site. Why did you join under a different name?


because I will not post on your board as I had no other business there, than to find why we have people joining today that want to pick fights with non-union electricians


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## pawpaw702 (Dec 13, 2008)

collin.thomas said:


> because I will not post on your board as I had no other business there, than to find why we have people joining today that want to pick fights with non-union electricians


What absolutly kills me is this.....We are mainly staying in the UNION BUISINESS Board. There are no Union members posting here, other than the 3 trouble makers. Why even have this board? Seems if one is Union, he'd better plan on defending why.


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## DDB1205 (Dec 13, 2008)

collin.thomas said:


> because I will not post on your board as I had no other business there, than to find why we have people joining today that want to pick fights with non-union electricians


So are you an Apprentice in Local 292 or are you a Journeyman. As being a student in Construction Electricity I will assume that you are an Apprentice or are trying to become one. With that I would only hope that the Brothers of Local 292 will make you fully understand what it means to be a "Brother".

Rob


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

pawpaw702 said:


> What absolutly kills me is this.....We are mainly staying in the UNION BUISINESS Board. There are no Union members posting here, other than the 3 trouble makers. Why even have this board? Seems if one is Union, he'd better plan on defending why.


There are many UNION members who have posting all over this forum for a long time and will continue to I'm sure. And no one is going to say a negative word to you about the "why" aspects of organization (in this section) and they won't in the other sections either if YOU don't bring it up.

The flip side of this "understanding" is for members to not bring up *not* being a member; or at the least (and as it has been working until very recently) to not bring it up as an aspect of every other discussion.

Subtlety and nuance guys. Honey not vinegar.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2007)

BryanMD said:


> There are many UNION members who have posting all over this forum for a long time and will continue to I'm sure. And no one is going to say a negative word to you about the "why" aspects of organization (in this section) and they won't in the other sections either if YOU don't bring it up.
> 
> The flip side of this "understanding" is for members to not bring up *not* being a member; or at the least (and as it has been working until very recently) to not bring it up as an aspect of every other discussion.
> 
> Subtlety and nuance guys. Honey not vinegar.


Very well said :thumbsup:


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