# Troubleshooting set



## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

I’ve got a service call next week customer has a problem with data lines in a home after a re model. Keeps dropping out. Provider told them to hire an electrician.

What’s a good test set that I can certify cables end to end?


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## FishinElectrcian (Jul 18, 2019)

https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-1573-Probe-Cable-Check-Tester/dp/B0002XV090

I have this one, pre Greenlee rebranding it's cheap. Has lots of functions like also acting as a toner (meh) but the reason it sticks around is the pair checker. Plug it in one end of the Jack, plug it's buddy in at the other end and it ticks it's way through the pair's. Bought it 15 years ago after I screwed up 5/5 data jacks haha.... because I didn't have a punch down tool.


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## batwing44 (Feb 2, 2010)

. try this 
https://www.primecables.ca/p-312476...lug-tester?atc_source=primecables_sub_catalog this tests each plug or jack or cable connections end to end and can hear with toner as well. Not certify test only.


https://d3e54emdgoy1fq.cloudfront.n...-Tools-Combo-for-RJ-45-RJ-11-PrimeCables-.jpg


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

batwing44 said:


> . try this
> https://www.primecables.ca/p-312476...lug-tester?atc_source=primecables_sub_catalog this tests each plug or jack or cable connections end to end and can hear with toner as well. Not certify test only.
> 
> 
> https://d3e54emdgoy1fq.cloudfront.n...-Tools-Combo-for-RJ-45-RJ-11-PrimeCables-.jpg


I have something similar and it works fine for what I do. It won't measure speed or cross talk or anything like that, just continuity/pinout. The jump in price from a tester like this to a cable certifier is huge. 

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## Tonedeaf (Nov 26, 2012)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-VDV-Scout-Pro-2-Tester-Kit-VDV501-823R/205209866

this one works good....i have the model that can measure cable distance good for checking for POE distances


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## AVService (Nov 10, 2017)

Pretty sure this is the cheapest actual certifier?

It dies not really seem like a certifier us what you need though to me?

And it turns out that i can not post links either.

It is the Byte Brothers certifier.


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## AVService (Nov 10, 2017)

AVService said:


> Pretty sure this is the cheapest actual certifier?
> 
> It dies not really seem like a certifier us what you need though to me?
> 
> ...




RWC1000k2 is the model


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

There's a major (price) difference between certifying, and testing. Certifying includes a printout of the results, testing doesn't. For testing all you need is a Mod-Tap.


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## AVService (Nov 10, 2017)

joebanana said:


> There's a major (price) difference between certifying, and testing. Certifying includes a printout of the results, testing doesn't. For testing all you need is a Mod-Tap.


And this is pretty much what I was wanting to say but could not from the phone.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

That Byte Brothers is not a real deal certifier, just because it prints a report doesn't make it a certifier.


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## AVService (Nov 10, 2017)

OK

My real pint was that the lines sound like they need troubleshooting before any thought of certifying and I have never needed to certify a residential service line anyway.
I have a feeling the question is really just about how to start troubleshooting the issue?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

AVService said:


> OK
> 
> My real pint was that the lines sound like they need troubleshooting before any thought of certifying and I have never needed to certify a residential service line anyway.
> I have a feeling the question is really just about how to start troubleshooting the issue?


I agree with that part, in this case what's a "real" certifier is a moot point because a simple tester that checks for shorts and miswires will find 99% of problems and is all he needs.


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## blueheels2 (Apr 22, 2009)

splatz said:


> I agree with that part, in this case what's a "real" certifier is a moot point because a simple tester that checks for shorts and miswires will find 99% of problems and is all he needs.





You guys are probably right. Old shop I used to work at had this really nice Fluke that we would install the cables with the appropriate ends and then test/certify them. Granted there was no training provided we were just handed the meter and told to go run some cables and make it work. That's what I was used to working with but not what I need for this little dinky job. just a simple tester that tests for shorts and miswires.


Thanks


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Most data cabling problems will be caught just fine what the cheap $20 Chinese tester referenced in this thread. Mine looks almost identical. Only run into one in my life that passed this test, but had bandwidth issues. Just reterminated both sides, and everything worked fine. Former employer had greenlee testers that perform similar functions to another one posted here - pair mapping and toning. He also had the byte Brothers one. It works well for the rare circumstance he needed to "certify" a cable. Only thing I didn't like about that, was the test results had to be cleared out with a laptop and couldn't be done directly on the device


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

check the terminations. If they are wired correctly most drop outs or packet errors are caused by bad terminations. Re punch both ends and make sure you maintain the twist in each pair. Then I would use Speedtest.net to test unless you have a tester that will push data over the links


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

JoeSparky said:


> Most data cabling problems will be caught just fine what the cheap $20 Chinese tester referenced in this thread. Mine looks almost identical. Only run into one in my life that passed this test, but had bandwidth issues. Just reterminated both sides, and everything worked fine. Former employer had greenlee testers that perform similar functions to another one posted here - pair mapping and toning. He also had the byte Brothers one. It works well for the rare circumstance he needed to "certify" a cable. Only thing I didn't like about that, was the test results had to be cleared out with a laptop and couldn't be done directly on the device


My brother is working at a company and they have 4 fluke DSX 8000 certifiers. Pretty sweet.


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## batwing44 (Feb 2, 2010)

VELOCI3 said:


> check the terminations. If they are wired correctly most drop outs or packet errors are caused by bad terminations. Re punch both ends and make sure you maintain the twist in each pair. Then I would use Speedtest.net to test unless you have a tester that will push data over the links


 Try testmy.net instead.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

Okay, here is my take on this. I don't want a cheap rinky-dink tester. I at least want something that has some thought behind it. This is because for any data job I do, by far, the most expensive part of the job is my time. The VDV scout looks like it might be alright. Personally, I got this one for our shop:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Tone-and-Probe-Test-Tone-Trace-VDV-Kit-33-866/300497271


I'm a bit peeved off that I found that kit on the home depot website. I ended up having to buy the probe with a toner + the VDV setup, AND I had to make my own patch cables to test with for coax, ethernet, etc. Anywho, I've tested around 225 cables since the end of December and have not had any issues. That tester is also a toner, by the way. You can plug into the cable, set it on tone. Take the test jack out of the bottom with you. Go find the cable. Put the test jack on it, then push the appropriate tester button. Label it, and on to the next.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

sparkiez said:


> Okay, here is my take on this. I don't want a cheap rinky-dink tester. I at least want something that has some thought behind it. This is because for any data job I do, by far, the most expensive part of the job is my time. The VDV scout looks like it might be alright.


The basic functions you need are to check for shorts, opens, and pinout. This will find and correct 99.99% of problems as well as anything. Literally. One in 10,000 it will miss if you know what you're doing in the first place. 

The next bump is one that checks for split pairs and length. This is a significant bump in cost. Finding split pairs is for someone that can't read the instructions for the jack, they make the same mistake at both ends so the pinout is right but the pairs aren't where they should be. If you pay attention to your layout it's rare to go over distance. IMO it's necessary for testing someone else's work, but not my own. 

The certifiers are seeing if the finished product performs to spec. If you use quality products and terminate with decent workmanship it will be extremely rare to discover a problem with a cable that the certifier can see that a simple tester can't. They had their place in the early days of high performance cabling, when Category 5 was new. They have their place today where people are trying to run 10Gbit over marginal legacy systems. But for the vast majority of installs these days, unnecessary. 

The main reason people need certifiers is because for decades IT geeks have read that the right way to do QA on a cable plant installation is the use of a certifier, and they write the certification into job specs in government and institutional, and large corporate projects. I can tell you with 110% certainty, you'll get much better QA with a medium tester that does wiremap, length, and split pairs, *performed by a neutral third party (not the installer)* than a $6000 certifier run by the installer. 

I have seen this many times: 

Installer installs. Can't wait to test and get paid. 
Tests a cable with certifier; fails; reterminates; fails again. 
Tests a nearby cable, saves it as the result for the failed cable. Downloads bogus results from tester, submits, gets paid; moves on with life.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

splatz said:


> The basic functions you need are to check for shorts, opens, and pinout. This will find and correct 99.99% of problems as well as anything. Literally. One in 10,000 it will miss if you know what you're doing in the first place.
> 
> The next bump is one that checks for split pairs and length. This is a significant bump in cost. Finding split pairs is for someone that can't read the instructions for the jack, they make the same mistake at both ends so the pinout is right but the pairs aren't where they should be. If you pay attention to your layout it's rare to go over distance. IMO it's necessary for testing someone else's work, but not my own.
> 
> ...




Agreed. 

Don’t forget you can rent a fluke DTX for a small fee to do the certification after the whole install is complete. 

The key to selecting a testing unit is the speed of the tester. Fluke is about 10 seconds and other testers are 30-60 seconds. Time is money!


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

sparkiez said:


> Okay, here is my take on this. I don't want a cheap rinky-dink tester. I at least want something that has some thought behind it. This is because for any data job I do, by far, the most expensive part of the job is my time. The VDV scout looks like it might be alright. Personally, I got this one for our shop:
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Tone-and-Probe-Test-Tone-Trace-VDV-Kit-33-866/300497271
> 
> ...


I've had this one for years and for troubleshooting / verification it has always done the job well. I just have the base unit, but the toner works with my old Progressive Electronics wand. More recently I found that the toner can be nice in that you can choose the frequency of the tones which is useful in some situations, and something my PE toner cannot do. Its also a pretty rugged design which suits me well.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

stuiec said:


> I've had this one for years and for troubleshooting / verification it has always done the job well. I just have the base unit, but the toner works with my old Progressive Electronics wand. More recently I found that the toner can be nice in that you can choose the frequency of the tones which is useful in some situations, and something my PE toner cannot do. Its also a pretty rugged design which suits me well.




I read this in Ron Swanson’s voice. 


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

VELOCI3 said:


> I read this in Ron Swanson’s voice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lol::lol::lol:


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

"I once worked with a guy for three years and never learned his name. Best friend I ever had"


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## AVService (Nov 10, 2017)

stuiec said:


> I've had this one for years and for troubleshooting / verification it has always done the job well. I just have the base unit, but the toner works with my old Progressive Electronics wand. More recently I found that the toner can be nice in that you can choose the frequency of the tones which is useful in some situations, and something my PE toner cannot do. Its also a pretty rugged design which suits me well.


Any Inductive Pickup Probe can detect tone from any toner,there is no special magic there but it can be nice to have amplified pickup too depending on the situation.
The Lineman Handset Telephone is also part of these systems historically and the clip leads can be attached directly to the little ears on pickups that still have them but most modern units are pretty decent at filtering out noise and giving plenty of volume at the same time.

I like the Fluke line in general as even the cheapest is pretty much better than most others out there in the end.
They have multiple tones and will automatically step between them too if you want when shorted which can be pretty handy sometimes.

I have been doing Networking since the beginning and almost use nothing besides a Toner anyway.
I have a VDV unit but have only rarely had any need at all for it day to day.
I also have no practical need for a certifier and it is easy to open an unneeded can of whoop-ass on yourself if offering to Certify when it is not really specced or requested.

Like anything else after a while it becomes second nature to diagnose and troubleshoot systems with minimal tools I think.

I will say that the Ideal EZ pass through crimp on ends have changed my life though!
I had long ago decided that no good could come of my trying to crimp traditional '45 ends without having the correct connector for the exact wire that I was terminating and had ALWAYS punched down to a Jack instead and used short premade commercial jumpers.

Since the Ideal hit the shelves I am back to making cables every day and rarely have any trouble at all doing so.

Ideal EZ though only,accept no substitutes!


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

AVService said:


> Any Inductive Pickup Probe can detect tone from any toner,there is no special magic there but it can be nice to have amplified pickup too depending on the situation.
> The Lineman Handset Telephone is also part of these systems historically and the clip leads can be attached directly to the little ears on pickups that still have them but most modern units are pretty decent at filtering out noise and giving plenty of volume at the same time.
> 
> I like the Fluke line in general as even the cheapest is pretty much better than most others out there in the end.
> ...



I always use a VDV. When doing installs I test and log every wire, from the field end to the patch panel. I don't see it as unnecessary work. I see it as a part of the job. When I walk away from a system, I want it to be complete, and I want the documentation to prove it to be complete.


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## Nick'sElectricLLC (Aug 17, 2019)

I have this one


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

AVService said:


> ...
> I also have no practical need for a certifier and it is easy to open an unneeded can of whoop-ass on yourself if offering to Certify when it is not really specced or requested.
> 
> ...


so true, I'm fully capable of whoopin my own ass



sparkiez said:


> I always use a VDV. When doing installs I test and log every wire, from the field end to the patch panel. I don't see it as unnecessary work. I see it as a part of the job. When I walk away from a system, I want it to be complete, and I want the documentation to prove it to be complete.


I agree, lets me walk away knowing I'll not be called back for a little error I could have taken care of easily at the time.


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## AVService (Nov 10, 2017)

sparkiez said:


> I always use a VDV. When doing installs I test and log every wire, from the field end to the patch panel. I don't see it as unnecessary work. I see it as a part of the job. When I walk away from a system, I want it to be complete, and I want the documentation to prove it to be complete.


OK I will do this too if installing but not for service which is what I thought this thread was about.

Sorry for the confusion.

Especially if I am trying to get someone going again after someone else caused an issue.

But I also usually use a more capable device that can ping and see deeper into a network than just cables a lot of times.
Usually a Fluke Nettool of some version.


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## AVService (Nov 10, 2017)

On a related note I walked into this one a few weeks ago!










A client bought the building and i am not kidding but it used to be a school where they taught Networking!

As you can see the Backbone was done well but the finish is just EPIC!

It does not look like that now.


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