# Master Electrician



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Someone told me he's a Master Electrician. I'm wondering what that is? What's the difference of that and a Journeyman? In California the only certification I know is the Electrician Trainee and Journeyman card issue by Department of Labor Relations and of course the C10 License for contractor.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

The word master implies that there isn't much left to learn, the craftsmanship is impeccable, He owns his own shop.

What it really means today is that the person passed an exam and other requirements by the state. 
This provides them with a license that says master, and in some states this means a contractors license as well.


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## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

The master is akin to a six year degree - he or her will ruin you with knowledge.


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## Split Bolt (Aug 30, 2010)

I can't speak for California, but in Virginia a Master Electrician license is the highest license for an electrician. Here, you can take the exam to get your Journeyman Electrician license after 5 years experience & 1 year of formal schooling. Then after 2 years, (I believe) you can take your Master Electrician exam. Only a licensed master can be used to get a contractor license, pull permits, etc.


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

JohnR said:


> The word master implies that there isn't much left to learn, the craftsmanship is impeccable, He owns his own shop.


Well two out of three ain't bad eh? 



JohnR said:


> What it really means today is that the person passed an exam and other requirements by the state.
> This provides them with a license that says master, and in some states this means a contractors license as well.


  ruined the definition. 

If they ask I tell all the ladies the first part only. Why ruin a good thing?

The second part is correct tho. In Alberta you work three years as a journeyman then you write the exam. If you pass you have the ticket! You can then draw Electrical Permits.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I seldom mention I hold a Masters License, those that do brag about being a master electrician usally are dummies.

I had to do work with a total IDIOT that would introdce himself as Billy Smith Master Electrician. WHOOPEE DOO BIG DEAL


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

brian john said:


> I seldom mention I hold a Masters License,


I have it on my card...
________________________________________
*electric Ltd.* 
....................... *daveEM*
................. Master Electrician

*Ph.* (or text):* xxx-xxx-xxxx [email protected]
*City Contractors License number.* xxxxxxx-xx* 
_________________________________________

Yeah I know. Totally Pro stuff. 

Often puts the customer at ease. This is because people are conditioned with the word (see post by JohnR). However as you say we might be dummies but most don't use dummies and master in the same conversation.


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## carryyourbooks (Jan 13, 2010)

Split Bolt said:


> I can't speak for California, but in Virginia a Master Electrician license is the highest license for an electrician. Here, you can take the exam to get your Journeyman Electrician license after 5 years experience & 1 year of formal schooling. Then after 2 years, (I believe) you can take your Master Electrician exam. Only a licensed master can be used to get a contractor license, pull permits, etc.


same thing here in tx. you have to have or employ a master electrician to obtain a contractor's license. jw test here is 80 questions and you have to pass with a 70. to take the master exam you must be a jw for 2 years and pass a 100 question exam with a 75.


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Any apprentice seeking to do electrical work must obtain an Electrician Trainee card in the State of California. Any electrician seek to get certified with the state of California needs 4 years of apprenticeship with proper education and past a 4-hour exam with the state to be certified as a Journeyman in California which can only do side-jobs not more than $500 or work for a C-10 licensing company. Any contractor doing electricial work must obtain a C-10 license with the CSLB. So I'm guessing Master Electrician is like an electrician with a C-10 license. In California you need minimum of 4 years in Jouneyman to take the test for your C-10 license which means you have to have at least 8 years of electricial experience to be a Master electrician in California????????


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

Someone from the south explained it to me like this. Some jobs REQUIRE a master electrician, and he was telling me that on a job he was at there was a really old guy working there and all he did was change lightbulbs (I think it was at a paper mill or rendering plant or something).

----

(the old guy was a master electrician, thus satisfying the requirement)


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

When I was in high School I worked on a fishing boat, the first year I workd as an apprentice baiter, the following year I was promoted to Master Baiter.:no::no:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

brian john said:


> I seldom mention I hold a Masters License, those that do brag about being a master electrician usally are dummies.
> 
> I had to do work with a total IDIO that would introdce himself as Billy Smith Master Electrician. WHOOPEE DOO BIG DEAL


It's in the name of my business. Er drr duhh ummm :laughing: :wacko:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It's funny, the respect I get from other electricians as a Master. Some guys think I am some sort of god.

In reality, I was a journeyman for about six months and then the economy took a dive. I left the trade for a number of years and wrote my Masters when I went back on the tools. The requirement here is that you have to be a journeyman for three years before you can become a Master. They don't ask what you have been doing for that period of time. Once I got my Alberta Master's I challenged the BC exam. That gave me an unrestricted Class A Field Safety Representative license and allowed me to get a contractor's license. I was "qualified" to do any type of electrical work in two provinces.


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## ibuzzard (Dec 28, 2008)

California does indeed not have a Masters classification. The person may have worked elsewhere in another state, and so obtained this license at that time. Also, their may have been, or may still be cities/counties/ juristictions which individually require and test for advanced knowledge, but I've not heard of them.

Ask him to see his license, the Porta-John is out of toilet paper again.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ibuzzard said:


> California does indeed not have a Masters classification. The person may have worked elsewhere in another state, and so obtained this license at that time. Also, their may have been, or may still be cities/counties/ juristictions which individually require and test for advanced knowledge, but I've not heard of them.
> 
> Ask him to see his license, the Porta-John is out of toilet paper again.


So a C-10 = a Masters?


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Minnesota has a tough master license exam. So, yes it does mean something personally when you take it and pass the first time.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Chris1971 said:


> Minnesota has a tough master license exam. So, yes it does mean something personally when you take it and pass the first time.


And you should be proud, I just find those that make the opening statement I am a master generally show me little.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> And you should be proud, I just find those that make the opening statement I am a master generally show me little.


I understand your comment. I look at it as more of a personal achievement.


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Every electrical contractor doing work in california needs a C-10 license. There are exception. The electrical contractor can do work without having a C-10 license but have to hired someone that has one. So what does that make him? If a master electrician works for me does that make me a Grand Master Electrician?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> If a master electrician works for me does that make me a Grand Master Electrician?


Hell yeah!

You could be Grandmaster Flash 










...hire a crew and you'll be Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5











then you start writing and rapping and making videos







...oh crap...someone beat you to it :laughing:


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

I live in California and only question I ever get on the trade is "Are you a Journeyman?"


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## tomgt63 (Jun 21, 2010)

I will get back to the OP in a moment, but first In Nebraska they stopped handing out master licenses decades ago and and after 5 years verifiable experience as a card holding journeyman license you can test for the contractors license. I passed the first time but I know many others who didn't. So I guess the degree of difficulty is subjective. Some of the those who have passed I wouldn't let wire my tree house. The difference between a masters and a journeyman here is a Master plans, lays out and supervise, the journey man installs and supervises apprentices. Master is not supposed to install( too good for manual labor I guess) and journeyman are not supposed to plan and lay out. Only execute.


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## tomgt63 (Jun 21, 2010)

The contractor license gives the holder the right to plan, layout *,instal*l and supervise. In addition you do don't need an electrical engineer's stamp on your blue prints an EC card is an acceptable endorsement.


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

It's weird how every states operate differently yet they tried to standardized the electrical trades thru the NEC.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Chris1971 said:


> Minnesota has a tough master license exam. So, yes it does mean something personally when you take it and pass the first time.


What was your score? I passed my Wisconsin master's on the first try but my score wasn't anything to write home to momma about!!!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> It's weird how every states operate differently yet they tried to standardized the electrical trades thru the NEC.


And for the most part it works.


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## ohmontherange (May 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> I seldom mention I hold a Masters License, those that do brag about being a master electrician usally are dummies.
> 
> I had to do work with a total IDIOT that would introdce himself as Billy Smith Master Electrician. WHOOPEE DOO BIG DEAL


There's no need to when your reputation preceeds you :thumbsup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ohmontherange said:


> There's no need to when your reputation preceeds you :thumbsup:


I am not always an A-hole!


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## ohmontherange (May 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> I am not always an A-hole!


:laughing: Your the man!


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Someone told me he's a Master Electrician. I'm wondering what that is? What's the difference of that and a Journeyman? In California the only certification I know is the Electrician Trainee and Journeyman card issue by Department of Labor Relations and of course the C10 License for contractor.


Not sure about Cali, but in MI if you've held a journeyman's license for at least 2 years (_while_ working under a master electrician - notarized documentation required) you are then eligible to take the state's master exam, which is very similar to the journeyman's exam, just harder. ...and your annual license fee is more $. 

In order to pull permits in MI, you must be an electrical contractor, and in order to be an EC you must either be a master or have a master in your full-time employ.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

New Jersey does not have a master classification. We have electrical contractor licenses and a 'certified journeyman', which is a paperwork money grab that the state issues but no one wants or requires.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

eejack said:


> New Jersey does not have a master classification. We have electrical contractor licenses and a 'certified journeyman', which is a paperwork money grab that the state issues but no one wants or requires.


True... probably not unsimilar to here. 

However, if an opportunity presents itself that requires a master's license, they want someone who *has* a master's license, not someone who is eligible to take the exam and might not pass the first time. The exam is only offered 4 times per year in Michigan's lower peninsula (and once in the UP); fail twice and you must wait an entire calendar year _and_ take an approved class before being eligible to retest.

Having this license classification has worked out well for me.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Minnesota doesn't have a test to obtain an electrical contractors license. However in order to apply for an electrical contractors license in the state of Minnesota you need to have someone as the master on record in order to obtain the EC license.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Split Bolt said:


> I can't speak for California, but in Virginia a Master Electrician license is the highest license for an electrician. Here, you can take the exam to get your Journeyman Electrician license after 5 years experience & 1 year of formal schooling. Then after 2 years, (I believe) you can take your Master Electrician exam. Only a licensed master can be used to get a contractor license, pull permits, etc.


Why do so many question the validity of an Electrician's Master's license and rarely question what a Master plumber's credentials mean?


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> Why do so many question the validity of an Electrician's Master's license and rarely question what a Master plumber's credentials mean?


cause the plumbers wouldn't put up with that


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Michigan Master said:


> Not sure about Cali, but in MI if you've held a journeyman's license for at least 2 years (_while_ working under a master electrician - notarized documentation required) you are then eligible to take the state's master exam, which is very similar to the journeyman's exam, just harder. ...and your annual license fee is more $.
> 
> In order to pull permits in MI, you must be an electrical contractor, and in order to be an EC you must either be a master or have a master in your full-time employ.


Thanks for the information. Since I'm in California and there is no such thing as Master Electrician in California. I take that the person that told me he's a Master Electrician was from out of state that came to California to work. The state only offer Electrician Trainee Card, Journeyman Card and the the California State Licensing Board offer the C-10 license. 4 years of apprenticeship then another 4 year of journeyman then C-10 qualification...


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> Why do so many question the validity of an Electrician's Master's license and rarely question what a Master plumber's credentials mean?


Because Electrician is the only trade consider PROFESSIONALS!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Because Electrician is the only trade consider PROFESSIONALS!


Why do plumbers get paid more?


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Thanks for the information. Since I'm in California and there is no such thing as Master Electrician in California. I take that the person that told me he's a Master Electrician was from out of state that came to California to work. The state only offer Electrician Trainee Card, Journeyman Card and the the California State Licensing Board offer the C-10 license. 4 years of apprenticeship then another 4 year of journeyman then C-10 qualification...


"C-10" just doesn't have the ring to it that "Masters" does!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

wendon said:


> "C-10" just doesn't have the ring to it that "Masters" does!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


Sounds like a Chevy Truck.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> Why do plumbers get paid more?


Because too many electricians think there work is worth less than plumbers.

Many electricians who run their own business want to de-professionalize the electrical trade so they can the cheapest labor do the work for them.

Plumbers on the other hand know that having professional employees will get them more profits by being able to sell that professionalism.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Because too many electricians think there work is worth less than plumbers.
> 
> Many electricians who run their own business want to de-professionalize the electrical trade so they can the cheapest labor do the work for them.
> 
> Plumbers on the other hand know that having professional employees will get them more profits by being able to sell that professionalism.


And plumbers say the same bout us.

Had this discussion with a plumber Friday (SERIOUSLY)


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Because too many electricians think there work is worth less than plumbers.
> 
> Many electricians who run their own business want to de-professionalize the electrical trade so they can the cheapest labor do the work for them.
> 
> Plumbers on the other hand know that having professional employees will get them more profits by being able to sell that professionalism.


 Ah, there's the rub. All of my kin are plumbers and they charge the same "on the side" as they do on the job.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> And plumbers say the same bout us.
> 
> Had this discussion with a plumber Friday (SERIOUSLY)


Good as long as they believe they will always have us beat..:laughing:


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

I was asked by a little ole lady writing up a permit in a small jurisdiction if I had my mastercard. 

I answered no but would a VISA do?

They all cracked up and settled for my EC card, which is the equivalent in AL.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

In New Jersey you're one of two things, licensed or a helper.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

brian john said:


> Sounds like a Chevy Truck.


 Or some type of explosive


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## Cat5Installer (Jul 19, 2009)

One of these certification levels is needed to work for a C-10 Electrical Contractor in California:

General electrician
8000 Hours

​ Residential electrician
4800 Hours​ 

Fire/life/safety technician
4000 Hours​ 
Voice data video technician
4000 Hours​ 

Non-residential lighting technician
2000 Hours

​You have to have the hours, then pass an open book test on the currently adopted NEC cycle.

I saw the stats on the State website, and something like 31% pass the test the first time, and 33% pass the second time. LoL. So a lot of people are having a tough time with it. I think too many guys hear "open book" and think they can breeze through it... Not sure why they aren't passing the second time around. 

I don't know much about the Trainee, and Apprenticeship programs because I didn't go that route.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Cat5Installer said:


> One of these certification levels is needed to work for a C-10 Electrical Contractor in California:
> 
> General electrician
> 8000 Hours
> ...


Be all you can be: Join the 33% of us that passed the first time!:thumbsup:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

wendon said:


> What was your score? I passed my Wisconsin master's on the first try but my score wasn't anything to write home to momma about!!!


Pass/fail, that's all that matters, 

(I'm glad too, :laughing: )


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

I passed the last 6 "master's" or "contractor's" electrical tests I've taken. All that means is I'm an OK test taker and I know a little about electrical work. There is a lot of electrical work that I'm not "qualified" to do (in my mind), but I'm "qualified" to do it according to State paperwork.

I agree with Brian, throwing around a "master" title doesn't impress.


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## uconduit (Jun 6, 2012)

I got 92% on the Cal State Cert. the first and only time I took it. 70% is passing. I hear stories about people failing the BATC test (now called DSOP) and I just think 










because I have to work around some of these people...


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Just to let you know *C-10* contractors in California is cheating the systems. They hired a Foreman, then hires one electrcian with a *California Journeyman Card* and then hired one apprentice with an* Electrician Trainee Card* and then hire another apprentice but label them as Material Handler which does not required to have any of these cards because they are not SUPPOSE to do any electrical work but actually is a 2nd apprentice. They are getting away with it because no one is enforcing the requirements.


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## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Next time someone tell me he's a Master Electrician, I'm just going to tell them you not nothing but a journeyman in this state. There is no such thing as master electrician in California. You're either an apprentice or a journeyman.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Next time someone tell me he's a Master Electrician, I'm just going to tell them you not nothing but a journeyman in this state. There is no such thing as master electrician in California. You're either an apprentice or a journeyman.


Master Electrician=C-10,,,,less spelling same meaning....:laughing:


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Just to let you know *C-10* contractors in California is cheating the systems. They hired a Foreman, then hires one electrcian with a *California Journeyman Card* and then hired one apprentice with an* Electrician Trainee Card* and then hire another apprentice but label them as Material Handler which does not required to have any of these cards because they are not SUPPOSE to do any electrical work but actually is a 2nd apprentice. They are getting away with it because no one is enforcing the requirements.


But this is California you must remember. Maybe Gov. Brown should sign a bill stating that if you want to be a C-10, you can be a C-10 and use the C-10's bathroom.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Next time someone tell me he's a Master Electrician, I'm just going to tell them you not nothing but a journeyman in this state. There is no such thing as master electrician in California. You're either an apprentice or a journeyman.


In many states: Master=Electrical Contractor=C10. Many use the same electrical test for JW but have another with business questions for EC's etc. 

All are proctored tests, probably same questions, experience (2X for EC's), education, continuing education etc. and honored from state to state.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Because too many electricians think there work is worth less than plumbers.
> 
> Many electricians who run their own business want to de-professionalize the electrical trade so they can the cheapest labor do the work for them.
> 
> Plumbers on the other hand know that having professional employees will get them more profits by being able to sell that professionalism.


Give it a couple more years of pex and other plastic roll piping and all that professionalism will be gone.

Our work in residences is easy enough to allow a home owner with minimal tools to do successfully. Not everything, but enough to make the residential contractor not only compete with other contractors and truck slammers, but the residents themselves.

That has dropped pricing in residential work ( our trades bread and butter ) and moved many residential contractors into competing in commercial and low voltage areas...dropping prices throughout.


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Next time someone tell me he's a Master Electrician, I'm just going to tell them you not nothing but a journeyman in this state. There is no such thing as master electrician in California. You're either an apprentice or a journeyman.


I'm sure that'll correct them, "you not nothing"... :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Just to let you know *C-10* contractors in California is cheating the systems. They hired a Foreman, then hires one electrcian with a *California Journeyman Card* and then hired one apprentice with an* Electrician Trainee Card* and then hire another apprentice but label them as Material Handler which does not required to have any of these cards because they are not SUPPOSE to do any electrical work but actually is a 2nd apprentice. They are getting away with it because no one is enforcing the requirements.


Nice attitude, no matter how knowledgeable you are, with your apparent attitude you would be sitting on the bench if you were sent to my company


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> In many states: Master=Electrical Contractor=C10. Many use the same electrical test for JW but have another with business questions for EC's etc.
> 
> All are proctored tests, probably same questions, experience (2X for EC's), education, continuing education etc. and honored from state to state.


The list of electrical licenses in Wisconsin is staggering!


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

eejack said:


> Give it a couple more years of pex and other plastic roll piping and all that professionalism will be gone.
> 
> Our work in residences is easy enough to allow a home owner with minimal tools to do successfully. Not everything, but enough to make the residential contractor not only compete with other contractors and truck slammers, but the residents themselves.
> 
> That has dropped pricing in residential work ( our trades bread and butter ) and moved many residential contractors into competing in commercial and low voltage areas...dropping prices throughout.


4" Pex going to your toilet flange? I'll agree that HO's can do their own plumbing but if they're held to the same standard by the inspector that the licensed plumber is, it might be a different story. Electrical is the same. I also like the statement, "I could have done the electrical myself but I just don't have time!"


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Because too many electricians think there work is worth less than plumbers.
> 
> Many electricians who run their own business want to de-professionalize the electrical trade so they can the cheapest labor do the work for them.
> 
> Plumbers on the other hand know that having professional employees will get them more profits by being able to sell that professionalism.


Harry, are you hitting the bottle again??? :laughing: Plumbers are the biggest slobs on the job, period. I work with many different plumbers and each one of them, except for one, are very unprofessional as far as appearance, and behavior on the job.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Harry, are you hitting the bottle again??? :laughing: Fascistchusist Plumbers are the biggest slobs on the job, period. I work with many different plumbers and each one of them, except for one, are very unprofessional as far as appearance, and behavior on the job.


FIFY:thumbsup::laughing:


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

wendon said:


> The list of electrical licenses in Wisconsin is staggering!


:laughing:

Anejo Enchilado; Asadero; Asiago; Baby Swiss; Bakers; Basket Cheese; Blue/Bleu; Brick; Butterkase; Cheddar; Cheese Blends (excl. Colby-Monterey Jack); Cheese Sauce; Colby; Colby-Monterey Jack; Cold Pack; Cotija; Cream Cheese; Edam; Enchilado; Farmer's; Feta; Fontina; Fresh Mozzarella; Frying Cheese; Gorgonzola; Gouda; Gruyère; Havarti; Kasseri; Mascarpone; Monterey Jack; Mozzarella; Muenster; Neufchatel; Oaxaca; Panela; Parmesan; Pasteurized Processed Cheese; Pasteurized Processed Cheese Food; Pasteurized Processed Cheese Spread; Pasteurized Processed Queso Dip; Pepato; Pizza Cheese; Provolone; Queso Blanco; Queso Blanco Para Freir; Queso Fresco; Queso Quesadilla; Romano; Scamorze; String; Swiss


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## SteveBayshore (Apr 7, 2013)

Magnettica said:


> In New Jersey you're one of two things, licensed or a helper.


There is now a JW card isued by the Board of Examiners in NJ. Must meet all of the criteria for a license but don't take the test. I just filled out all of the certifications for one of my guys. He must do the required hours every three years to keep it current, just like a license.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Just to let you know *C-10* contractors in California is cheating the systems. They hired a Foreman, then hires one electrcian with a *California Journeyman Card* and then hired one apprentice with an* Electrician Trainee Card* and then hire another apprentice but label them as Material Handler which does not required to have any of these cards because they are not SUPPOSE to do any electrical work but actually is a 2nd apprentice. They are getting away with it because no one is enforcing the requirements.


You go, girl!



Ninjazx916r said:


> Next time someone tell me he's a Master Electrician, I'm just going to tell them you not nothing but a journeyman in this state. There is no such thing as master electrician in California. You're either an apprentice or a journeyman.



Testify brother!




Go get yourself a badge, a helmet and a siren and police the hell outtta Cali!


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Next time someone tell me he's a Master Electrician, I'm just going to tell them you not nothing but a journeyman in this state. There is no such thing as master electrician in California. You're either an apprentice or a journeyman.


I can almost hear the Sesame Street One Of These Things Is Not Like The Other tune playing as you identify what group each person belongs to


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Harry, are you hitting the bottle again??? :laughing: Plumbers are the biggest slobs on the job, period. I work with many different plumbers and each one of them, except for one, are very unprofessional as far as appearance, and behavior on the job.


That comes from playing with poop all day.. kind of hard to keep a neat appearance reeking of e-coli..


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## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

Wendon, I think I liked your last profile pic much better... :icon_cool:


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

wendon said:


> 4" Pex going to your toilet flange? I'll agree that HO's can do their own plumbing but if they're held to the same standard by the inspector that the licensed plumber is, it might be a different story. Electrical is the same. I also like the statement, "I could have done the electrical myself but I just don't have time!"


Not everything, just like with electric. HO's are not doing their own services, and probably not doing their own septic systems. 

However look at a bathroom renovation...sharkbite plumbing fittings mean no soldering, pvc waste pipe, home depot does classes on installing lights and fans and sinks and whatnot.

Heck, they color coded our romex and make red and blue ( hot and cold ) rolls of plumbing. 

I don't blame the home depot/lowes/menards of the world - they are just filling the shelves with what we asked them for - time saving easier to install so we can make more money and spend less time training materials.


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