# 250.104 Confustion



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

swimmer said:


> 2008 NEC (We use this in Ventura CA) Article 250.104(B) says
> 
> "...gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). *The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. *The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible"
> 
> ...


It means if you have a gas furnace that is supplied with a 120V circuit then the equipment grounding conductor of that circuit is all that is needed. You don't have to do anything other than supply the gas unit with the circuit


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> It means if you have a gas furnace that is supplied with a 120V circuit then the equipment grounding conductor of that circuit is all that is needed. You don't have to do anything other than supply the gas unit with the circuit


A home inspector said I needed to provide a gas pipe bond at the hot water heater. Is this not needed if there is a gas furnace supplied with 120V. The house is late 80s so circuits have ground.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

swimmer said:


> A home inspector said I needed to provide a gas pipe bond at the hot water heater. Is this not needed if there is a gas furnace supplied with 120V. The house is late 80s so circuits have ground.


No, not if there is a gas furnace unless you have that csst pipe-- the yellow flexible stuff-- then that's a different animal altogether


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Interesting, but I bet he still makes him do it !


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

*250.104 and CSST*



Dennis Alwon said:


> No, not if there is a gas furnace unless you have that csst pipe-- the yellow flexible stuff-- then that's a different animal altogether



Dennis,
At least one of these houses has CSST. I saw your post on another website about sizing grounds for this stuff.

I'm curious as to why stainless steel isn't good enough to serve as bond.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

swimmer said:


> A home inspector said I needed to provide a gas pipe bond at the hot water heater.


Curious, why would you heat hot water? :jester:


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Curious, why would you heat hot water? :jester:


Saw someone call it a hwh


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

swimmer said:


> A home inspector said ....





dronai said:


> Interesting, but I bet he still makes him do it !


Its a Home Inspector...not a building Inspector or an Electrical Inspector or any form of inspector than has any authority to make anyone do anything.


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

If it's CSST you wouldn't bond the gas line at the water heater, you'd bond it before it enters the house. There is a brand of CSST out now that doesn't require a separate bond. It's all in what the manufacturer of the CSST calls for in their installation instructions.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

wendon said:


> If it's CSST you wouldn't bond the gas line at the water heater, you'd bond it before it enters the house. There is a brand of CSST out now that doesn't require a separate bond. It's all in what the manufacturer of the CSST calls for in their installation instructions.


Actually I am told that the gas code still requires the bonding no matter what csst is being used. Counterstrike by Omegaflex is one of the ones you are talking about but we still must bond it.

In some situations the csst will split open and become a torch if the material is struck by lightning. That is why it must be bonded differently however there is no evidence that this will help.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Oh it helps alright. It adds on the electrical contractors liability insurance to the shoddy product


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

*Lots of CSST confusion*



Dennis Alwon said:


> Actually I am told that the gas code still requires the bonding no matter what csst is being used.


250.104(B) allows furnace receptacle ground to be used for gas pipe bond but I don't see anywhere where iron pipe is differentiated from CSST. Now you've mentioned gas code. Does this gas code say that the furnace receptacle ground is not adequate for gas pipe bond when CSST is installed?

Electricians, plumbers and home inspectors that I work with are not familiar with these CSST issues. I talked with 3 city inspectors concerning gas pipe bonding before I was aware of CSST issues. I didn't mention CSST but neither did the city inspectors.

I found instructions for a type of CSST sold at Home Depot. It says to bond after the gas meter and before the first CSST fitting.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Dangerous crap products should not be allowed in construction. What is needed is an arc fault type of device for all dwelling gas systems that uses fancy high tech electronics that the makers cannot prove actually does anything at all other than trip constantly for no reason to be mandated to protect the public from gas leaking after the csst gas pipes get hit with lightning..

Oh, and it should cost the plumbers around $500 per.......








fair is fair..


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

swimmer said:


> 250.104(B) allows furnace receptacle ground to be used for gas pipe bond but I don't see anywhere where iron pipe is differentiated from CSST. Now you've mentioned gas code. Does this gas code say that the furnace receptacle ground is not adequate for gas pipe bond when CSST is installed?
> 
> Electricians, plumbers and home inspectors that I work with are not familiar with these CSST issues. I talked with 3 city inspectors concerning gas pipe bonding before I was aware of CSST issues. I didn't mention CSST but neither did the city inspectors.
> 
> I found instructions for a type of CSST sold at Home Depot. It says to bond after the gas meter and before the first CSST fitting.


Hard to believe when the CSST bonding has been an issue for a number of years. The directions are correct.:thumbup:


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

wendon said:


> Hard to believe when the CSST bonding has been an issue for a number of years. The directions are correct.:thumbup:


Lots of good info here on the forum but I missed it when I searched for 250.104 instead of gas pipe bond. Search for 250.104 gave no results. This is a problem.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

wendon said:


> Hard to believe when the CSST bonding has been an issue for a number of years. The directions are correct.:thumbup:


While the bonding is what the fuel gas code requires and what the manufactures require, I have never seen anything in the way of technical documentation that says the bonding will prevent the problem that is caused by nearby lighting strikes.

The main reason that the CSST bonding rule is not in the NEC is because the submitter of the proposal could not provide any technical substation that the bonding does anything.


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## swimmer (Mar 19, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> It means if you have a gas furnace that is supplied with a 120V circuit then the equipment grounding conductor of that circuit is all that is needed. You don't have to do anything other than supply the gas unit with the circuit


How about a gas range or a gas cloths dryer?


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