# Smoke detectors and afci breakers



## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi all, im new to the site. Good stuff here. 10 year local 26 Wash D.C. AJ, and just went out on my own and learning quick that is seems i knew more before getting my masters than after.

Got a question. Any body have a general "Catch-ALL" Cover Your A$$ method of wiring a house in regards to Smoke detectors. It seems as if Every AHJ (just to be different) wants something different...Even after being told several times that no local supplements to NEC exist in these counties. Just "Opinionated AHJ's it seems"

--All smokes on dedicated AFCI protected circuit

--All smokes on dedicated non-AFCI protected circuit

--Tied into the bedroom lighting circuit protected by detector

--one smoke in and outside of every bedroom, not just every level and sleeping common area (just put 9 smokes in a small cape cod just because id rather overkill than be wrong-not cost effective if wrong however i realize)

So many options... Not enough brain cells to compute


Great site glad i stumbled onto it


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

How about asking the AHJ in the area you're working in?

If they say something that's above & beyond the NEC, ask for a Code reference or a legally-adopted amendment.

Oh, and welcome!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:

Best bet is to check with the people inspecting your job, even if it is a PIA

A lots of these inspectors make up their own rules and better to do it *their* way and move on..


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

Well, I agree that their may be local rules. Here are the ones I'm used to. 
You never place smokes on a dedicated circuit. If you do, they can be turned off and not be an inconvenience. You want it to be noticed. They are normally on a lighting circuit. But they can be on any general (not dedicated, like appliance or furnace) circuit. Because they should be interconnected, a lighting circuit, wired in #14 makes sense. With the new ark fault rules, if it's an outlet in a bedroom, it's AFCI. 
The rule here is in every bedroom and in the hall outside each bedroom. CA has yet to adopt AFCI everywhere.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

:blink:
If you're planning on interconnecting your smokes like you should then they are all going to be on a ckt afci because of the bedrooms. I usually put my smokes on a bedroom lighting ckt.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> :blink:
> If you're planning on interconnecting your smokes like you should then they are all going to be on a ckt afci because of the bedrooms. I usually put my smokes on a bedroom lighting ckt.


 
I just pick a bedroom and feed power into the smoke there then the 3wire to the rest.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

I never had any luck w smokes and nec. its in afpa we put them on a common ckt i.e. bedroom hall or something that a home owner would realize if it was tripped.here we are required 120v bat backup and interconnected.and in garages attached to houses.every bdrm and w/in 12 ft of every bdrm. SOUNDS LIKE A BANK ALARM in the big houses


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

In Los Angeles you need one in every bedroom, one in the hallway (within 12 foot of the doorway) and one on every level. They must be of the ionization type, 120 volt with a battery backup. I do not recall what LA wants as far as smokes and AFCI


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Delaware requires the smokes on their own dedicated _non-afci protected_ circuit. And, you have to install a lock-on the breaker to prevent one from accidentally turning it off. 

Personally, I disagree with this, as if the breaker were to trip out, one could not even tell it was tripped (except for square D type OQ), and one could not reset the breaker without using a tool or screwdriver to remove the lock-on device. :blink:

I prefer to have them on a lighting circuit, as if that is tripped out, it becomes readily apparent the breaker is off. :whistling2:


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

thanks guys for all the replies. I realize that every area is different and every AHJ is different for that matter, I'm was just looking to not have to refer to every small jurisdiction for their little nuances and differences to this matter. 

- Ive decided to do this to maybe cover my A$$ in case i dont know, maybe this will help someone else. Just run a dedicated circuit for all smokes and run a jumper from the end of the line smoke to a bedroom lighting circuit and label and cap off only to be used if necessary. Then i can backfeed the smokes with a bedroom circuit and then proceed to disconnect the dedicated HR to the first smoke, then ive got myself covered if A supersmart AHJ tries to outthink me, himself, the NEC, Mother Nature, Thomas Edison and Aristotle


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Why not just run a dedicated HR to the first smoke and then wire the rest normally? Forget the 'jumper".

Then, if a dedicated circuit is not required, pigtail it to the master bedroom circuit in the panel.


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

I initially thought about that i just have some squirrely hang up with splices in a panel, especially a new panel. I guess this way would have less of a probability of someone other than myself wiring the circuit wrong though, i didnt think of it that way. 

Hey 480 i got one more for you if you dont mind...

You ever have to run a GEC to a Gas Meter because its located inside the basement?


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Sorry, Bonding Jumper


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Power21 said:


> ......Hey 480 i got one more for you if you dont mind...
> 
> You ever have to run a GEC to a Gas Meter because its located inside the basement?


Never have. Because I have yet to see a gas meter in a basment.

But I have bonded CSST.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

We have to bond the meter here no matter where it is.


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks Ill try to take a picture it today just in case your curious. Appreciate All the help


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## Power21 (Jan 26, 2010)

So JWJRW do you size it according to the size of your GEC for your service


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## jbrookers (Dec 7, 2008)

Power21 said:


> Hi all, im new to the site. Good stuff here. 10 year local 26 Wash D.C. AJ, and just went out on my own and learning quick that is seems i knew more before getting my masters than after.
> 
> Got a question. Any body have a general "Catch-ALL" Cover Your A$$ method of wiring a house in regards to Smoke detectors. It seems as if Every AHJ (just to be different) wants something different...Even after being told several times that no local supplements to NEC exist in these counties. Just "Opinionated AHJ's it seems"
> 
> ...


 We have over ten jurisdictions we work in always every day. They all have a different idea on this. The most prevalent rules are smokes most be AF and on with the bedroom circuit. I have heard every thing you've stated above from varies inspectors though. Its crazy.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Power21 said:


> So JWJRW do you size it according to the size of your GEC for your service


Here all that is required is to bond it with a piece of #4 (local code)


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

Power21 said:


> Hi all, im new to the site. Good stuff here. 10 year local 26 Wash D.C. AJ, and just went out on my own and learning quick that is seems i knew more before getting my masters than after.
> 
> Got a question. Any body have a general "Catch-ALL" Cover Your A$$ method of wiring a house in regards to Smoke detectors. It seems as if Every AHJ (just to be different) wants something different...Even after being told several times that no local supplements to NEC exist in these counties. Just "Opinionated AHJ's it seems"
> 
> ...


Here in NC this requirement comes out of the NC Residential Building Code,That is taken from The ICC Residential Building Code. Its not in the NEC.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> Here all that is required is to bond it with a piece of #4 (local code)


 Ther goes that Great State of Me..... Again!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

codeone said:


> Ther goes that Great State of Me..... Again!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


 
Yea we are a "world class" city since we have them fancy new trains!:laughing:
Not many people know we are our own state:whistling2:
Try not to let it get out!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Smokes and AFCIs*

To me it makes sense to install AFCIs on all circuits. Except for cost, why not? I hope no one brings up harmonics, but if it is valid...explain.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

RIVETER said:


> To me it makes sense to install AFCIs on all circuits. Except for cost, why not? I hope no one brings up harmonics, but if it is valid...explain.


 
I dont know the numbers but I bet most houses that catch fire due to electrical issues are probably old and had shotty work or repairs over the years.

Not all Im sure. Maybe arcs are a good thing I dont know.....

But I do know its one more thing that has raised the price of a house. I really dont like them but if they do truly save lives......
But have THEY been PROVEN to be the cause in the reduction of housefires?


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

I doubt that the proof of how many fires were potentially prevented by AFCIs will be available any time in the near future. It seems that systems can work many years before problems rear their ugly head or become outdated and dangerous. Until there is a continuing trend of many years of less fires it will just be speculation of the benefits of AFCI protection. It will also require an accurate assesment of the actual cause and the role that the AFCI had in preventing it. We will also need to see the affect that improved materials have on the reduction in the number of fires.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jim Port said:


> I doubt that the proof of how many fires were potentially prevented by AFCIs will be available any time in the near future. It seems that systems can work many years before problems rear their ugly head or become outdated and dangerous. Until there is a continuing trend of many years of less fires it will just be speculation of the benefits of AFCI protection. It will also require an accurate assesment of the actual cause and the role that the AFCI had in preventing it. We will also need to see the affect that improved materials have on the reduction in the number of fires.


 
How do you prove it was the presence of AFCIs that is the reason for fewer fires?

If the only difference is that AFCI's were installed over a given period, then it would be easy.

But there's a lot of other fire-prevention things going on in the building trades as well.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

480sparky said:


> How do you prove it was the presence of AFCIs that is the reason for fewer fires?
> 
> If the only difference is that AFCI's were installed over a given period, then it would be easy.
> 
> But there's a lot of other fire-prevention things going on in the building trades as well.


 
Thats sorta my point. Id like to know if any houses with arc fault have caught fire due to the electrical system.
They could be the global warming of the electrical industry....
But I DONT know for sure... Does anyone? Can anyone?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*smokes and afcis*



jwjrw said:


> Thats sorta my point. Id like to know if any houses with arc fault have caught fire due to the electrical system.
> They could be the global warming of the electrical industry....
> But I DONT know for sure... Does anyone? Can anyone?


I'll bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut that some investigator will find that the cause was an improperly wired AFCI. What do you think?


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

If the breaker tripped, or someone accidently turned it off, wouldn't the battery take over and beep?

Wouldn't this be an "alarm" that would tell you that power is off?


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