# What's your process when figuring out how to run conduit?



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is one of the things I hated when I was an apprentice.

I had the technical/mechanical ability to do the job, but the "etiquette" is what I lacked due to inexperience. Just like you said, I could bend the hell out of pipe, but figuring out which way the foreman is going to prefer is what got me stressed out.

This is simply something that you will pick up as time goes on. The more you see the more you will know and the more confident you will become.

As for your specific question, it's hard to say thru a forum without seeing the job. You essentially want a straight run that will be out of the way of other trades and will leave access to things that need it.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Dizzykidd said:


> I'm not bad at bending conduit when someone tells me exactly where to go but I struggle when I have to come up with my own route. I do it the way that seems best and then more experienced guys will tell me how they would've done it different. There way always seems so much better. So how do you guys figure out your route for conduit?


Try shortest distance and fewest bends.


----------



## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Try shortest distance and fewest bends.


Yup!!! Or ask some oldie where they'd do it first!?


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Depends also on location. Exposed or hidden? I had to tell a guy recently to forget all the commercial habits he's developed. All the eyeballing and "close enough" wasn't cutting it in an exposed, eye level install.

On the flipside, this past summer I was running conduit in a ceiling of a high security building that was very difficult to remove and reinstall. Every piece had to go back in a particular order and could take up to 40 minutes depending on how much we took down. I opted for rigid because supporting was going to be very difficult even though I could have run emt. We only opened the ceiling where was necessary and I can tell you there was almost no regard for aesthetics.

As far as finding paths, try to get eye level, sometimes pathways that look great from the ground have a lot of obstacles, like those triangle purlin braces that don't always line up just right. Could be the difference of running above, or below the purlin. Above may be easier, faster, but hung below might look nicer and easier to match if there will be additional conduits.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I sit cross legged lotus style on the bundles of pipe and spend 30 minutes chanting Ommmmmm ommmmmmmm ommmmmmmm just loud enough for the conduit to hear me. It practically runs itself after that.......:yes:


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

macmikeman said:


> I sit cross legged lotus style on the bundles of pipe and spend 30 minutes chanting Ommmmmm ommmmmmmm ommmmmmmm just loud enough for the conduit to hear me. It practically runs itself after that.......:yes:


Like this?


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I just throw it up and pray.


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

I try to figure what will take the least work and look the best. Most times the least work will look the best but not always.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I sit cross legged lotus style on the bundles of pipe and spend 30 minutes chanting Ommmmmm ommmmmmmm ommmmmmmm just loud enough for the conduit to hear me. It practically runs itself after that.......:yes:


I have found the ommm method is resistant to the watt or amp method...


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Everybody is a pipe snob. There isn't a part of our trade where you will be criticized more harshly.

Me, I've lost most of my pipe skills so don't check the dumpster for bad bends once I'm finished.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

there are 2 schools of thought:

1) get in before anyone else, throw it up with as few bends as possible, and as few branches as possible.

2) draw it out on the plans, and get with the supt, the HVAC and plumbing foreman and tell them your plans, work it out best for everyone (including yourself)


I know a lot of guys that use plan #1, and I've seen a lot of racks torn out because of it. #2 works for me, and also puts the other trades on notice, and also gives you backup for change orders some times. I hate doing stuff twice, even though it happens. 

You also have to consider what is easier (ie. less work instead of building a bunch of trapezes, multi level racks,sleeve layouts, or ridiculously complicated ditches/manholes or fancy bends that weren't necessary). 

If you don't know where to start, just try drawing 3 different routes, and see which one you like better.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I have found the ommm method is resistant to the watt or amp method...


I get it!


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> Everybody is a pipe snob. There isn't a part of our trade where you will be criticized more harshly.
> 
> Me, I've lost most of my pipe skills so don't check the dumpster for bad bends once I'm finished.


All because it's out in the public eye where everyone sees 'crooked' and thinks "that should have been leveled".

In the past I have moved a couple straps on emt at stores that ticked me off everytime I saw them.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

five.five-six said:


> I try to figure what will take the least work and look the best. Most times the least work will look the best but not always.


Sometimes one can luck out.



telsa said:


> I just throw it up and pray.


Throw up usually stinks.



Majewski said:


> Yup!!! Or ask some oldie where they'd do it first!?


Most oldies are goodies.


----------



## Dizzykidd (Aug 3, 2016)

TGGT said:


> Depends also on location. Exposed or hidden? I had to tell a guy recently to forget all the commercial habits he's developed. All the eyeballing and "close enough" wasn't cutting it in an exposed, eye level install.
> 
> On the flipside, this past summer I was running conduit in a ceiling of a high security building that was very difficult to remove and reinstall. Every piece had to go back in a particular order and could take up to 40 minutes depending on how much we took down. I opted for rigid because supporting was going to be very difficult even though I could have run emt. We only opened the ceiling where was necessary and I can tell you there was almost no regard for aesthetics.
> 
> As far as finding paths, try to get eye level, sometimes pathways that look great from the ground have a lot of obstacles, like those triangle purlin braces that don't always line up just right. Could be the difference of running above, or below the purlin. Above may be easier, faster, but hung below might look nicer and easier to match if there will be additional conduits.


I try to bend every thing as if it's exposed. I was told that would help me. The eye level idea seems like a good one I never thought of doing that


----------



## Dizzykidd (Aug 3, 2016)

wildleg said:


> there are 2 schools of thought:
> 
> 1) get in before anyone else, throw it up with as few bends as possible, and as few branches as possible.
> 
> ...


I guess I should try to think easier. I mean I see the more experienced guys doing all the fancy bending I just assume it all has to look that good


----------



## arthur17 (Jun 16, 2016)

First off look for a pull by
If not loosen up other straps and make there's look crooked so you're will look better


----------



## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

if your having trouble visualizing the best route, take a slow patient look at the environment and then run a string down the route you think is best. this will show you obstacles and problems that you may not have noticed. i carry a masons line and line level, but jet line works. you obviously want the least amount of bends and as much elbow room that you can have while also not making your rack stand out more than it should. i also use strings beside long pipe rack's (and lights in a long line or anything else in a line) while installing, it's faster and straighter than measuring off crooked stuff. (check prints for other trades as well)


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

I used to visualize and even draft out conduit runs before I started them. Now I can pretty much look at the job and size it up in my head. I can't believe the amount of time some people will waste to avoid an offset. When I'm coming out of some gear I choose the best route I can see and I commit to it. I've seen dudes that think it's a better idea to work with 6-7' deep trapezes rather than keep the traps shallow and workable and just bend the offsets when the ceiling changes. Whatever though it all pays the same 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ed E. Current (Nov 27, 2016)

I take a walk and find the best elevation that will avoid as many obstacles as possible, keep my bends to a minimum. The more boxes you have, the more time and material you're using. Box, 2x connectors, mounting, 2x support, splices, box cover. It's time and material that can possibly be avoided with a little forethought. It's also another point for problems.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Great. Now let me tell you about the commercial ceiling where there was exactly 7/8'' clearance between the top of the t-bar and the bottom of the concrete stress support beams for the upstairs floor..... And minimum 3/4'' emt spec.

I got it done though............


----------



## catsparky1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Mike did you cut the t-bar runners .


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Did a McDonalds years ago and they had it measured to where your piperack went on the drawings.. Not the all the pipe sizes, but a block was reserved for electrical... Well we missed that block by about 6" in one area and found out why afterwards.. Lights wouldn't fit, mechanical had to manuver around us.. After that, I paid close attention to any notes on drawings...

Had another guy "assume" that the structural steel in a building must have been for electrical instead of measuring.. One afternoon, after had most of the cable tray installed, the mechanical superintendent came up to me and asked when we were moving our stuff.. As this other guy was on days off, I went out and checked.. We were at the wrong elevation.. Tore everything down, brought in a welder and spent the next 2 days getting everything back to where it was when he left.. He got back and I handed him a tape measure and said he might wanna start using it.....


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

catsparky1 said:


> Mike did you cut the t-bar runners .


Nope. 3/4'' conduit slipped in barely. I have no idea how they got the tiles to go in but they did it. Glad I wasn't around to hear the bitching .


----------



## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

I'm rarely the first to run in an area, so I usually try to match existing unless it's fecal quality work. Which it usually is in a remodel. If it's new work and I get the chance, I'll pore over other trades prints, elevations, RCP and come up with a grand plan. Usually though I get to it late and squeeze it in wherever I can. I will say, though, a pox upon those who run conduit horizontally within 2 feet of ceiling grid if they have any alternative.


----------



## Wirenut951 (Aug 3, 2014)

Dizzykidd said:


> So how do you guys figure out your route for conduit?


The path of least resistance.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Wirenut951 said:


> The path of least resistance.


I've heard that a time or two!


----------



## Palm (Jun 27, 2016)

hd13 said:


> if your having trouble visualizing the best route, take a slow patient look at the environment and then run a string down the route you think is best. this will show you obstacles and problems that you may not have noticed.


Or slap a cheap laser pointer onto your torpedo level's v-groove


----------



## ElectricMetalTuba (Mar 20, 2017)

If you can price it in, use strut/cobras for the vertical runs. (This lets you kick under across.) Cut the U- strut 40% wider than what you need. That way you always hit strong anchor points and give yourself more options for conduit alignment. In the end it looks better, like a *bold* assembly rather than a measly little run. with that as your base you can ensure that all your future runs will fit and allow minimal use of transitions and saddles. 

Every time I go in to some old shop, there is always some offset 90 blocking all the KO's in the box I have to get pipe to. Don't cheap out on walls. Customers/Bosses can appreciate good workmanship. It doesn't take all day to do if you build the routine.


----------



## Mr.Awesome (Nov 27, 2015)

HackWork said:


> This is one of the things I hated when I was an apprentice.
> 
> I had the technical/mechanical ability to do the job, but the "etiquette" is what I lacked due to inexperience. * Just like you said, I could bend the hell out of pipe, but figuring out which way the foreman is going to prefer is what got me stressed out.*
> 
> ...


This.
You just have to feel out who you're working for. I've worked for guys who meticulously sized their pipe so they could run (for example) 1 1/4" down a hall to an 8x8, drop off circuits to a few rooms, run 1'' to the next 8x8, drop off ccts, etc., and I've worked for guys on the opposite end who run seperate 3/4'' to every freakin' room from the panel and it looks like a wall of steel above the panel. Just ask your boss how he wants it run and if he gives your flack for asking, do what you feel is best and feel free to throw it in his face if he doesn't like what you're doing.
Left to my own devices (I mostly did offices so lots of halls and small rooms), I prefer to start large to feed an area and shrink my pipe as necessary as I go.
Mounting strut/rod anchors to q deck before the floor above you gets poured is a huge timesaver too.
And while the tinbashers will almost always **** us over at some point in the job, buy yourself a pad of tracing paper. Take pieces and lay them over their prints and plan your pipe run accordingly to stay away from their stuff. Then take the pieces back to your prints so you can see clearly where you have ran stuff but haven't marked your prints all to hell.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Mr.Awesome said:


> This.
> You just have to feel out who you're working for. I've worked for guys who meticulously sized their pipe so they could run (for example) 1 1/4" down a hall to an 8x8, drop off circuits to a few rooms, run 1'' to the next 8x8, drop off ccts, etc., and I've worked for guys on the opposite end who run seperate 3/4'' to every freakin' room from the panel and it looks like a wall of steel above the panel. Just ask your boss how he wants it run and if he gives your flack for asking, do what you feel is best and feel free to throw it in his face if he doesn't like what you're doing.
> Left to my own devices (I mostly did offices so lots of halls and small rooms), I prefer to start large to feed an area and shrink my pipe as necessary as I go.
> Mounting strut/rod anchors to q deck before the floor above you gets poured is a huge timesaver too.
> And while the tinbashers will almost always **** us over at some point in the job, buy yourself a pad of tracing paper. Take pieces and lay them over their prints and plan your pipe run accordingly to stay away from their stuff. Then take the pieces back to your prints so you can see clearly where you have ran stuff but haven't marked your prints all to hell.




And did you derate all the conductors in those large pipes? I'd rather run a 3/4 to every room and pull 12s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

ponyboy said:


> And did you derate all the conductors in those large pipes? I'd rather run a 3/4 to every room and pull 12s
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Balancing out... it's better to home run #10s...

This DRASTICALLY cuts down on your piping effort.

C.f. the rules for de-rating.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

TGGT said:


> Depends also on location. Exposed or hidden? I had to tell a guy recently to forget all the commercial habits he's developed. All the eyeballing and "close enough" wasn't cutting it in an exposed, eye level install.
> 
> On the flipside, this past summer I was running conduit in a ceiling of a high security building that was very difficult to remove and reinstall. Every piece had to go back in a particular order and could take up to 40 minutes depending on how much we took down. I opted for rigid because supporting was going to be very difficult even though I could have run emt. We only opened the ceiling where was necessary and I can tell you there was almost no regard for aesthetics.
> 
> As far as finding paths, try to get eye level, sometimes pathways that look great from the ground have a lot of obstacles, like those triangle purlin braces that don't always line up just right. Could be the difference of running above, or below the purlin. Above may be easier, faster, but hung below might look nicer and easier to match if there will be additional conduits.


Heck, I didn't know that you don't have to strap rigid. I will have to put that one in the memory bank.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> And did you derate all the conductors in those large pipes? I'd rather run a 3/4 to every room and pull 12s
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1 1/4" in a straight run would required a 10X10 wouldn't it?


----------



## Mr.Awesome (Nov 27, 2015)

ponyboy said:


> And did you derate all the conductors in those large pipes? I'd rather run a 3/4 to every room and pull 12s
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





telsa said:


> Balancing out... it's better to home run #10s...
> 
> This DRASTICALLY cuts down on your piping effort.
> 
> C.f. the rules for de-rating.


OP,
Case and point on preference. If someone else is in charge just ask and do it their way.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Heck, I didn't know that you don't have to strap rigid. I will have to put that one in the memory bank.


344.30(B)(4): Horizontal runs of RMC *supported* by openings through framing members at intervals not exceeding 10 ft, and *securely fastened* within 3 ft of termination points shall be permitted.

This is precisely what I ended up doing in that ceiling because of the circumstances. We still secured the conduit where we had access or near bends, but it made an already tough install easier not having to worry about securing exactly every 10 feet.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

TGGT said:


> 344.30(B)(4): Horizontal runs of RMC *supported* by openings through framing members at intervals not exceeding 10 ft, and *securely fastened* within 3 ft of termination points shall be permitted.
> 
> This is precisely what I ended up doing in that ceiling because of the circumstances. We still secured the conduit where we had access or near bends, but it made an already tough install easier not having to worry about securing exactly every 10 feet.


Humm, I wonder what the EMT strapping codes are?


----------



## bartstop (Sep 30, 2012)

As few bends as possible. Avoid the fancy stuff. If there are going to be other conduits in the same area, keep that in mind too. You have to the big picture or you'll end up screwing yourself or the next guy.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

sbrn33 said:


> Humm, I wonder what the EMT strapping codes are?


Even if there is identical exceptions for EMT (don't have the book in front of me right now) I wouldn't have used it because they are weaker at the coupling and we would've needed to be within arms reach to tighten each coupling and strap which was challenging for that project. We switched to EMT as soon as we got away from that ridiculous ceiling.


----------

