# is it worth following up with a contractor over a refusal?



## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

I don't expect I'll get any answers but I don't think it will hurt.

I pulled fire alarm wire for this guy last winter and there was no issue, it's not clear why he wouldn't hire me again unless he's heard something from someone else.

It's possible he just wants someone who can do more of the lifting and carrying, I don't know why he'd pick up someone with even less experience tho.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

There are a great many reasons why someone may not hire you. The most popular of which is, maybe, they don't need anyone right now? Maybe you did "ok" on a job that was heavily staffed, but they need an all-star team on a job that's only lightly staffed? There's a huge gap between a worker who has "no issues" and a worker who's a superstar. 

There's a lot it seems like you're leaving out. Care to tell the whole story? Stuff like, why did you leave in the first place? How do you know there's even an opening now? Important details like that will make this sound more like something someone wants to reply to and not another whiney flake.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Read her previous posts and threads and you'll get a better picture of why.


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## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

MDShunk said:


> There's a huge gap between a worker who has "no issues" and a worker who's a superstar.


yep my read into this is that the guy has a small shop working on a small margin and wants someone who is better at the tools than I am.

My friend got the job and is staying with me to work for a week. I don't have any details on the job itself except that the call was for a first or second year apprentice. He is bigger & stronger than I am and has more time in the trade.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

TokenFemale said:


> I don't expect I'll get any answers but I don't think it will hurt.
> 
> I pulled fire alarm wire for this guy last winter and there was no issue, it's not clear why he wouldn't hire me again unless he's heard something from someone else.
> 
> It's possible he just wants someone who can do more of the lifting and carrying, I don't know why he'd pick up someone with even less experience tho.


Don't look back everyone has skills. I've had projects where we could have made a bit more money using people that are smaller and agile.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

TokenFemale said:


> He is bigger & stronger than I am and has more time in the trade.


Those factors may have nothing at all to do with him getting tapped to do the job. If they do play a role, however, they're perfectly legitimate (and legal) reasons to choose him over you.


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## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

MDShunk said:


> If they do play a role, however, they're perfectly legitimate (and legal) reasons to choose him over you.


I agree.

Got on bad terms with a recent contractor, the situation was objectively his fault but I think this is impeding my ability to get on jobs. It might be an issue worth pursuing with the EEOC.


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## Helmut (May 7, 2014)

TokenFemale said:


> He is bigger & stronger than I am and has more time in the trade.


Don't kid yourself here. Bigger and stronger is for manual labor positions.

Smarter and more efficient is where you want to be.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

TokenFemale said:


> I agree.
> 
> Got on bad terms with a recent contractor, the situation was objectively his fault but I think this is impeding my ability to get on jobs. It might be an issue worth pursuing with the EEOC.


WAIT!!

You admit you got on bad terms with a contractor.
-and- that may be impending your ability to get on jobs.

So you say, you did something... YOU got on bad terms. Admitting fault is a wonderful character trait. I applaud you. 

NOW.... You say you might look to the EEOC for relief? Christ Almighty.... what's your thought process here? You keep dropping these vague tidbits like that and it makes you sound nuttier by the minute. I wouldn't want you on my job at this point, and I've already read a few paragraphs from the other side of the internet.


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## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

MDShunk said:


> So you say, you did something... YOU got on bad terms. Admitting fault is a wonderful character trait. I applaud you.


the guys running the job sexually harrassed me in a pretty bad way and didn't like the response they got. i was then fired in retaliation. if this is what's impeding me from working it's probably something i should pursue with the state.

i wouldn't care, it was obviously time to check out of that situation, but if people are going to talk **** behind my back i need to address the issue.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Every once in a while I browse through a person's old posts right quick. Every once in a while I get the funny feeling that person is a specially crafted character who's existing posts and every post that will follow are running along a pre-decided storyline.


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## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

it is intellectually lazy for you to dismiss me as some kind of sockpuppet


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'd rather call it an extremely useful life's skill. 

Every one of your threads and every new post is like the next installment of a foregone story. 

I'm not sure if you're independently bored, someone from VS (or someone acting on their behalf), or a trolling banned member. I'm not really sure what the motivation is. 

What I am reasonably certain of is that you're a character in someone's storyline. 

/carry on.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Cow said:


> Read her previous posts and threads and you'll get a better picture of why.


I see now. She's a fatalist. The whole world's out to get her, and she aims to prove it one short-circuited social encounter at a time.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

TokenFemale said:


> the guys running the job sexually harrassed me in a pretty bad way and didn't like the response they got. i was then fired in retaliation. if this is what's impeding me from working it's probably something i should pursue with the state.
> 
> i wouldn't care, it was obviously time to check out of that situation, but if people are going to talk **** behind my back i need to address the issue.


If you were truly sexually harassed you need to bury those FU*KERS. Unfortunately, the ramifications of this even in 2018 can be career limiting.

If you imagined you were sexually harassed you need to reflect on the circumstances and take a different approach


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm in agreement with Brian here.

I've seen females take crap from guys on a job and don't care for men that can't be gentlemen. Not every guy on a job has to be a cretin. 

If the harassment was a real thing pursue it fully.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Take note that nobody participating on this thread has suggested that someone that has been harassed should tolerate it. 

The OP is alleging that things the other contractor has said to the grapevine is impeding her ability to get jobs. That would be pretty bad behavior not only on the part of the contractor but also on the part of all the other contractors that heard their story. 

Occam suggests that if you see hoofprints, think horses before you think zebras. In other posts, the OP has whined about being mechanically inept and in this thread has admitted to literally not carrying their weight, which happens to be an important part of the apprentice's job. 

Along the line of hoofprints, it may be more likely the OP is known as a low value apprentice than that contractors are blacklisting her over a sexual harassment issue. 

And I point out again that this person's only contribution here has been to ask questions about herself, absolutely nothing electrical, nothing about getting better with the tools, nothing about code or theory or practice, just about her. 

(That is, if she is indeed an actual person, @MDShunk suggests she is a fictional character. if she's a sock puppet, someone on here is way better at sock puppetry than I'd have thought, and I proffer my compliments.)


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## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

brian john said:


> If you were truly sexually harassed you need to bury those FU*KERS. Unfortunately, the ramifications of this even in 2018 can be career limiting.



Since I'm (sic) mechanically inept and planning to move on for EE, there aren't too many ramifications besides the waste of time and energy involved. That said there was a serious ****in issue at stake: this specific contractor has a reputation for being horrible, notably to their male apprentices. a friend who had a better inside view on the whole scenario termed it "rape culture" which isn't a far cry from my read of the situation.

i don't have an aggressive bone in my body and am loathe to waste time on this; y'all are welcome to urge me to have some self-respect in the meantime.

it turns out my original instinct re: the refusal was right: the contractor needed someone who could do some heavy lifting and i was a poor candidate. this didn't stop my training director from giving me an earful on what a lousy apprentice i am. jfc who needs this ****.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

In case the OP is not a sock puppet ... 

I have very little doubt you are a terrible apprentice and little reason to believe you'd ever be a competent wire-person; you're taking a slot someone else would really benefit from, and setting back women in the trade by being reinforcing stereotypes to that effect. You sound like a pain in the ass with a bad attitude. 

Never the less, if you have actually experience sexual harassment, I think it would be great if you reported what happened and sought whatever legal remedies, criminal or civil, are justified. Nobody would think that being a terrible electrician in any makes it OK to subject you to that kind of treatment. But I think anyone would respect not pursuing it if you felt that's what's best for you. Nobody has to be a hero. 

You're (understandably) very vauge about whether you actually have been victim to this behavior or just been exposed to behavior you find offensive. I am not asking, again, your business - just saying. 

BTW, isn't "sic" used to say you're quoting someone without correcting their grammatical or spelling errors? I am not sure used "sic" correctly. Is being passive aggressive possible for someone without an aggressive bone in their body? 



TokenFemale said:


> Since I'm (sic) mechanically inept and planning to move on for EE, there aren't too many ramifications besides the waste of time and energy involved. That said there was a serious ****in issue at stake: this specific contractor has a reputation for being horrible, notably to their male apprentices. a friend who had a better inside view on the whole scenario termed it "rape culture" which isn't a far cry from my read of the situation.
> 
> i don't have an aggressive bone in my body and am loathe to waste time on this; y'all are welcome to urge me to have some self-respect in the meantime.
> 
> it turns out my original instinct re: the refusal was right: the contractor needed someone who could do some heavy lifting and i was a poor candidate. this didn't stop my training director from giving me an earful on what a lousy apprentice i am. jfc who needs this ****.


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## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

splatz said:


> Never the less, if you have actually experience sexual harassment, I think it would be great if you reported what happened and sought whatever legal remedies, criminal or civil, are justified. Nobody would think that being a terrible electrician in any makes it OK to subject you to that kind of treatment. But I think anyone would respect not pursuing it if you felt that's what's best for you. Nobody has to be a hero.


Not a hero, but there's probably some stuff that i shouldn't let slide. I don't really have any insight into this sort of thing, I'm used to existing at the margins, I don't know what's problematic disrespectful and what's not.



> I think it would be great if you reported what happened and sought whatever legal remedies, criminal or civil, are justified.


again, there's this mindset that i should care, and that respect switch isn't being flipped for some reason, even if i wouldn't behave that way towards someone else i'm willing to excuse their behavior in my own mind, i just automatically feel guilty even tho likely i've done nothing wrong.

i'm probably a mediocre apprentice suffering from some degree of personal burnout which is pushing me into the below average range. oddly, in workplaces that don't have an affirmative action policy, people are fairly respectful to me, they realize i'm just there to work. i don't know why the ibew culture is so weird.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TokenFemale said:


> Not a hero, but there's probably some stuff that i shouldn't let slide. I don't really have any insight into this sort of thing, I'm used to existing at the margins, I don't know what's problematic disrespectful and what's not.
> 
> again, there's this mindset that i should care, and that respect switch isn't being flipped for some reason, even if i wouldn't behave that way towards someone else i'm willing to excuse their behavior in my own mind, i just automatically feel guilty even tho likely i've done nothing wrong.
> 
> i'm probably a mediocre apprentice suffering from some degree of personal burnout which is pushing me into the below average range. oddly, in workplaces that don't have an affirmative action policy, people are fairly respectful to me, they realize i'm just there to work. i don't know why the ibew culture is so weird.


This was sad/disappointing to read from you.

Why be complacent? 

And or settle for mediocrity?


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The OP comes off as a SJW.

The IBEW is just about the MOST liberal union that there is.

Good grief.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> The OP comes off as a SJW.
> 
> The IBEW is just about the MOST liberal union that there is.
> 
> Good grief.


*S*ingle *J*ewish *W*oman???


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

telsa said:


> The OP comes off as a SJW.
> 
> The IBEW is just about the MOST liberal union that there is.
> 
> Good grief.





MechanicalDVR said:


> *S*ingle *J*ewish *W*oman???


*S*ocial *J*ustice *W*arrior


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

TokenFemale said:


> Not a hero, but there's probably some stuff that i shouldn't let slide. I don't really have any insight into this sort of thing, I'm used to existing at the margins, I don't know what's problematic disrespectful and what's not.
> 
> again, there's this mindset that i should care, and that respect switch isn't being flipped for some reason, even if i wouldn't behave that way towards someone else i'm willing to excuse their behavior in my own mind, i just automatically feel guilty even tho likely i've done nothing wrong.
> 
> i'm probably a mediocre apprentice suffering from some degree of personal burnout which is pushing me into the below average range. oddly, in workplaces that don't have an affirmative action policy, people are fairly respectful to me, they realize i'm just there to work. i don't know why the ibew culture is so weird.


Truth is you're pretty vauge, and I don't really know what you're driving at here. I don't know if you're a sock puppet, or troll posting to support a lawsuit, or some other weird thing, or just ranting, or actually looking for some input. 

I don't know if you have a valid grievance based on workplace policy / law, that's a matter for the HR people and the courts. You'd have to educate yourself on the rules and the process and decide, or seek counsel. I don't think anyone could comment based on what you've posted. 

The recurring theme - "worth following up" - "shouldn't let slide" - "should care." As far as whether the process would have some tangible outcome for you, like a monetary settlement, who knows. As far as some moral obligation - ultimately the details don't matter because it's something you'll have to decide yourself.


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## TokenFemale (Dec 18, 2016)

MechanicalDVR said:


> This was sad/disappointing to read from you.
> 
> Why be complacent?
> 
> And or settle for mediocrity?




I'm pretty disappointed in myself.

it's largely an energy thing, i can't fight every battle, i just want to settle into a viable career. i'm an analytical person so electrical is fine, engineering is probably better but there's a lot of demand for tradesmen just now, and service jobs bore me, so i'm sticking it out for the time being.

i like what i do but i wish i were better at it; i know i have a lot of good talents tho and there are probably other jobs for which i could make the same kind of money without all the pain.

re: the sexual harrassment charges
the guys running a solar job i was on about six months ago were gunning for me and this culminated in them encouraging an apprentice to sexually assault me, which he did because he's a mentally unstable alcoholic. nothing serious, just stressful and inappropriate. the fact that i was targeted for differential treatment is problematic in its own right, the rest of it crosses a line in a major way. i don't give a **** at this point but i feel like if no one ever complains it won't ever get better.

i informed the apprentice board of the incident and they didn't seem willing to address it which seems kind of ****ed up, what's the point of being in a union if you have to deal with this ****.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

TokenFemale said:


> I'm pretty disappointed in myself.
> 
> it's largely an energy thing, i can't fight every battle, i just want to settle into a viable career. i'm an analytical person so electrical is fine, engineering is probably better but there's a lot of demand for tradesmen just now, and service jobs bore me, so i'm sticking it out for the time being.
> 
> ...



you were sexually assaulted and didn't call the cops?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> *S*ocial *J*ustice *W*arrior


Mine could be more fun to hang out with.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

electricalwiz said:


> you were sexually assaulted and didn't call the cops?


Most guys wouldn't call the cops if they were assaulted.

Locals should do more to safeguard women in the trade until culture catches up. Maybe requiring women to be paired up or something. This is still a male dominated trade.

Unfortunately all the women I've met personally in this trade have been on disability for various injuries so keeping enough around to stay paired up could be difficult.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

TGGT said:


> Most guys wouldn't call the cops if they were assaulted.
> 
> Locals should do more to safeguard women in the trade until culture catches up. Maybe requiring women to be paired up or something. This is still a male dominated trade.
> 
> ...


You should always call the cops if you were sexually assaulted


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TokenFemale said:


> I'm pretty disappointed in myself.
> 
> it's largely an energy thing, i can't fight every battle, i just want to settle into a viable career. i'm an analytical person so electrical is fine, engineering is probably better but there's a lot of demand for tradesmen just now, and service jobs bore me, so i'm sticking it out for the time being.
> 
> ...


There is no excuse for sexual assault, the police should have been called right then and there.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

electricalwiz said:


> You should always call the cops if you were sexually assaulted


Or shove a screwdriver in the guys throat first and then call.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Or shove a screwdriver in the guys throat first and then call.


or nuts


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Try pepper spray.

That stuff is a real turn off, sexually.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

electricalwiz said:


> or nuts


Nah, he can still be a jerk without nuts.

Having many female friends that have been victims of rape and sexual assault,
I have zero interest in keeping a guy like that alive.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> Try pepper spray.
> 
> That stuff is a real turn off, sexually.


Yeah it burns like hell on sensitive flesh.


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