# IBEW Local 424 Training Centers (Catch 22)



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

**Moved to the appropriate forum**


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I'm very union proud but I'm certainly not a big fan of how 424 operates on some things. I would think this information should have been explained to you right from the start. Was it mentioned on the job board posting about this course being needed??


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Gimme a dispatch, if they don't like my conduit work, they can fire me. Never heard of such BS! Over here to the west of Canada, we are expected to run pipe on a standard dispatch, never heard of having to take a bending course...


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## YYCApprentice (Oct 31, 2012)

And this is why the IBEW is irrelevant in Alberta,and why i will never join them.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Obviously there some sort of secret handshake missing here.....~CS~


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Sometimes you have to have certain credentials for certain jobs. I know we have jobs with a list of credentials and if you don't have them you can't work there. Twic really narrows the field of candidates.


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## Heymanisth (Apr 20, 2010)

The contractors the the IBEW supplies will often insist that the guys they get have certain skills, courses are offered (sort off) by the IBEW to cover the skill sets needed so the contractor can ask that they send only those who has taken certain courses.

It makes good sense to do this, competition for work is fierce and the IBEW needs their contractors to do better than the competition which will lead to a build up of Union market share and increase the amount of high paying jobs available to its members. So any additional advantage the IBEW can give to their contractors threw better trained Electricians is good.

Their courses include Aerial Work Platform, Variable Frequency Drives, Blue Print Reading, High Voltage Termination, Motor Controls, Overhead Cranes, Substation Construction, Switchgear, QA/QC Field Inspection, H2S Alive, Fibre Optics, Bob Cat Operation, Code Upgrading, Fall Protection, etc....

Unfortunately I think they have screwed up on this good idea. If I could I would be taking a course almost every month even if I had to pay for it and the price was reasonable. Too bad they made it so hard to get into those courses. Maybe not enough members were interested in the additional training so they cut back on it.

I think that I should attend the next IBEW 424 Calgary meeting and complain there.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

I'd be pissed making a _3hr drive one way_ to hear "no". What a terrible impression to make.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

stuiec said:


> I'd be pissed making a _3hr drive one way_ to hear "no". What a terrible impression to make.


 Its the impression I've gotten every time I've ever dealt with 424:no: Its a shame and it leaves little question as to why that local has a mere 8 to 10% market share even with all the oilfield work that is going on there. Sad sad state of affairs for IBEW in Alberta. They should all hang their heads in shame.

I've have been on sites in AB where the so called "brothers" would drag up and jump ship to a non-union contractor because that contractor was paying $50.00/day more for living out allowance. Sad sad state of affairs. That local has done this to themselves........in the eighties.....they had in excess of 90% market share and now its gone and its actions like I've mentioned above that did it to them and as long as they continue to do the same .......it will never improve.:no:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

Loose Neutral said:


> Sometimes you have to have certain credentials for certain jobs. I know we have jobs with a list of credentials and if you don't have them you can't work there. Twic really narrows the field of candidates.


This is obviously a contractor requirement of the call. IBEW is in the business of filling calls. If he NEEDS that course, he NEEDS that course. End of story.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

oh how the mighty have fallen.....:whistling2:~CS~


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

big2bird said:


> This is obviously a contractor requirement of the call. IBEW is in the business of filling calls. If he NEEDS that course, he NEEDS that course. End of story.


I understand specialty calls but pipe bending?


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

eejack said:


> I understand specialty calls but pipe bending?


They are proabably weeding out other so called experts already sent.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

big2bird said:


> They are proabably weeding out other so called experts already sent.


If that is the case then 424 has some deeper issues.

( and yes, I have put Lack of Skill on a lay off slip in the past ).


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

eejack said:


> If that is the case then 424 has some deeper issues.
> 
> ( and yes, I have put Lack of Skill on a lay off slip in the past ).


The OP is probably not the first white ticket claiming to know everything and sent out there.:no:


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> oh how the mighty have fallen.....:whistling2:~CS~


Nope. Just more non union sparkies that think they know it all.:jester:
(I can hear the hornets buzzing).


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## Nick0danger (Aug 19, 2012)

Heymanisth said:


> Their courses include Aerial Work Platform, Variable Frequency Drives, Blue Print Reading, High Voltage Termination, Motor Controls, Overhead Cranes, Substation Construction, Switchgear, QA/QC Field Inspection, H2S Alive, Fibre Optics, Bob Cat Operation, Code Upgrading, Fall Protection, etc....


seems just like the courses my non union company sends us one. If the IBEW did superiour work compared to the non union they would have a larger share of the work, plain fact they all do quailty work.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

big2bird said:


> Nope. Just more non union sparkies that think they know it all.:jester:
> (I can hear the hornets buzzing).


I know _i'm_ working....! (i can hear those unemployment checks printing.....):whistling2:
~CS~


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

eejack said:


> If that is the case then 424 has some deeper issues.
> 
> ( and yes, I have put Lack of Skill on a lay off slip in the past ).


424 has some serious issues......and I've used the lack of skill problem for layoffs too. 
I usually call the dispatch at the hall and ask where they found that guy and let it be known that we don't want him again.:no:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Rollie73 said:


> 424 has some serious issues......and I've used the lack of skill problem for layoffs too.
> I usually call the dispatch at the hall and ask where they found that guy and let it be known that we don't want him again.:no:


 
In other words the brothers have assumed the _dog eat dog_ modus operandi the rest of the contractual world operates as

May i be the first to extend a warm welcome to capitalism here, do remember that everyone short of a monopoly usually gets a turn in the _milkbone undies..._

~CS~


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> In other words the brothers have assumed the _dog eat dog_ modus operandi the rest of the contractual world operates as
> 
> May i be the first to extend a warm welcome to capitalism here, do remember that everyone short of a monopoly usually gets a turn in the _milkbone undies..._
> 
> ~CS~


Not so much a "dog eat dog" kind of thing for me as my job is good and secure....the layoff thing is not really an issue for me. The BIG issue for me when it comes to letting a guy like that go is simple.....looking out for the contractors interests. If the guy is just no damn good then he is no damn good and NO contractor should be getting stuck with guys who can't cut it in the real world. If the contractor doesn't make money...he closes the doors and we lose our jobs.

Back to the original topic though....it is a tad bit unreasonable to say a guy "must" have a conduit bending course in order to bid on a job. If the guy is bidding on commercial work it should be expected that he would know basic conduit bending skills. 

Having said that though.....I've gotten so called "pipe guys" sent to me and they weren't good enough to carry our benders in the door.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

You exist in the_ false_ security of a union microcosm, which can not displace itself from the market Rollie.

The market has no mercy, takes no prisoners & has no allegiance you see 

This is evident in the OP's insistence of particulars that you claim _yourself_ as extraneous

That they've found a way to _'thin the herd'_ is typical , that you have trouble accepting it reeks of epitaph....

~CS~


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Oh no Chicken.....I have no trouble accepting the 'thining of the herd' as it were. I whole heartedly condone it in fact. 
If you are unable or unwilling to do the job, you don't deserve the job and should be "thinned" out......be it union or non-union:thumbsup:


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## chadw (Jan 10, 2012)

Stated goal of the ibew, to organize all workers in the electrical industry....yet you see it everywhere their rules and methods do not match one of their top goals, is that hypocritical? Idk but still ibew is a great thing


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

chadw said:


> Stated goal of the ibew, to organize all workers in the electrical industry....yet you see it everywhere their rules and methods do not match one of their top goals, is that hypocritical? Idk but still ibew is a great thing


I agree completely with the IBEW being a good to great thing. I love working as a unionized electrician but I have no disillusions about some of the methods and rules that are used on a daily basis. If we want to remain a great thing and continue to grow and prosper while striving toward that number one goal....... then some things certainly have to change and by sending a brother home and NOT allowing him to get training he needs to bid on a job.... sorry...wrong.


For anyone who is interested......

To organize all workers in the entire electrical industry in the United States and Canada, including all those in public utilities and electrical manufacturing, into local unions,

To promote reasonable methods of work, 

To cultivate feelings of friendship among those of our industry, 

To settle all disputes between employers and employees by arbitration (if possible), 

To assist each other in sickness or distress, 

To secure employment, To reduce the hours of daily labor, 

To secure adequate pay for our work, 

To seek a higher and higher standard of living, 

To seek security for the individual, 

And by legal and proper means to elevate the moral, intellectual and social conditions of our members, their families and dependents, in the interest of a higher standard of citizenship.

Try thinking about these things and see how many of them you actually strive toward every day on the job site.


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## BillTell'sBuddy (Jan 16, 2014)

I am really surprised that they did not scoop you up to bend pipe as it is becoming a lost art especially on industrial sites.
I presume that you are a sworn in member and not a permit?
If so did you go just on what the telephone receptionist and Dispatcher said?
The Dispatcher usually just goes on what he has been told to say and goes by the general rules to dispatch someone. 424 has had a lot of problems in the recent pat sending people to our contractors who were not qualified or experienced or even with bogus paper qualifications that looked very good. A lot of that has been dealt with with new policies. 
Did you take it up a step and talk to an Assistant BA or the Business Manager?
The Business Manager has a lot of discretionary power. 
The IBEW especially in Alberta has it's problems and is not a ticket to paradise. There is a lot of money at stake here. But in my experience it is better to be in a REAL (AFL/CLC) union than no union at all.
I have differences of opinion with my union, but that is how democracy is supposed to work. I have my chance to participate by being involved, attend meetings, and elect my leaders.


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## BillTell'sBuddy (Jan 16, 2014)

Too bad we cannot edit.....
Are you a Journeyman or apprentice? All apprentices are required to take compulsory courses first aid and pipe bending are two. Again anyone in your situation should speak to an Assistant BA at least.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

eejack said:


> If that is the case then 424 has some deeper issues.
> 
> ( and yes, I have put Lack of Skill on a lay off slip in the past ).


But I can only think of a few "A" men that can't bend conduit and they are electrical test techs.


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## Heymanisth (Apr 20, 2010)

Got a new perspective after working up north a few years, I totally understand why they ask for certain qualifications and training. There are some extremely smart and capable electricians working in the oilsands and I have been lucky to have been partnered up with some of them. 

And I have also ran across some who must have "bought" their licenses and are almost clueless on everything. I ran across one person who was a Journeyman Electrician who also had their instrumentation ticket and they were not able to comprehend how to test or wire up the simplest switches and they were in QA/QC !!!! They were good at paperwork and had nice hand writing though. Yeh scary stuff.

Since tickets can apparently be purchased for cash maybe the little bit of required training isn't that bad after all.

And I just got signed up to do the conduit bending course, decided to do it in case a good call comes up that requires it.


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