# how many commercial electricians here?



## DoCJohnny (Feb 16, 2011)

I've done mostly commercial construction and renovation work. I also spent 3 year doing service work which I loved, now I am debating going out on my own.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

There are plenty of big project guys here.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Define 'commercial electrician'.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

electrolover said:


> how many hired hands here? just regular joes that build hospitals and skyscrapers? after reading some threads i wonder if the majority of the members are "owner operators" or service truck drivers.


So 'commercial electrician' is hospitals and skyscrapers:no:


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

electrolover said:


> how many hired hands here? just regular joes that build hospitals and skyscrapers? after reading some threads i wonder if the majority of the members are "owner operators" or service truck drivers.


I do new residential, medical buildings, office buildings, car washes, irrigation pumps, manufacturing buildings. Also service work, I double as the guy who puts out the hot spots for the slow crews. Nothing over four stories though, the tallest building in the area is the lds temple. The vast majority is new construction though.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

BIG... the Bigger the Better... I tend to think of it as heavy commerical,

Bigger ego's and Bigger everything... I've experienced and worked with some great co-workers, as well as seen some great skaters... :jester:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

I've worked on heavy industrial, commercial (retail stores), institutional (schools, hospitals), residential, service work, low voltage, municipal water and wastewater systems, fire alarms... etc. My shop's owner is a whore; he'll take any job he can get his hands on.


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

I do mostly new commercial construction. Grocery stores, schools, stuff like that. Not much service work for me yet but would really like to get into it. I have found that I really like to trouble shoot


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

running dummy said:


> I do mostly new commercial construction. Grocery stores, schools, stuff like that. Not much service work for me yet but would really like to get into it. I have found that I really like to trouble shoot


It will be more fixing other peoples mistakes and you will be using WTF.. :laughing:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

That's where I started, and spent most of my career so far. I'll take commercial or industrial over residential any day.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

For me:

1972 - 1980, mostly residential with a couple small commercial jobs.

1980 - 1990, mostly gas stations and c-stores, car wash, and some odd control systems.

1990 - 1995, construction management for a pump and tank company that also had an electrical department.

1995 - present, self employed (except for one year as a branch manger for that same pump and tank company 2002-2003). Mostly fuel/fluid systems and marinas. Been slack (not working) for the last 3 years.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> That's where I started, and spent most of my career so far. I'll take commercial or industrial over residential any day.


Me too. But I haven't had the opportunity to wire a new house from the ground up in several years now and I'm kinda itchin' to knock one out of the park :thumbup:


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

erics37 said:


> Me too. But I haven't had the opportunity to wire a new house from the ground up in several years now and I'm kinda itchin' to knock one out of the park :thumbup:


It'd be just fine with me if I never wired a house again.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I think it would be cool to wire my own home. But after wiring a few cookie cutter houses, there's very little thought put into those kind. Drill the same holes in the same places. Put the same boxes on the same studs, repeat. It only gets interesting when you go to test and an AFCI breaker is tripping, especially if you have lights and power on the same circuit.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

I've always worked in what most would refer to as commercial/institutional work. Mostly new & rehab.
I've been on a few mid-rise type jobs from beginning to end.
(I got a shot at getting on a 15 story new construction job later in the year)

Lots of office building fit-outs. Restaurants, Retail, Dentist Offices, Medical centers, Hospitals, Universities, Cell Phone tower equipment rooms, site work, Gyms, TV studio's,Super Markets, etc,. Pretty much your run of the mill everyday stuff.

I've been on only two residential jobs. Both were enormous mansions. One was an out of the ground job, if memory serves me right it had something like 12 bedrooms. that guy was a Lawyer.

The other was a very old place that was being renovated. Lots of do and do not's because it was a Historical building.
This place belonged to a married couple with kids. Both were doctors and the wife was a heart surgeon at CHOP.

I had a service van for a little while too. That was cool until the new PM took over. I remember when he sent me to an office fit-out (by myself) and asked me on the two-way "how long do think to rough it in?" I said "I dunno, there's like 20 carpenters here, when's the help showing up?"

He replied, "What do you need help for?" 
I knew my so-called service career was coming to an end.:laughing:
(by the way, when does construction count as service work??)

I've seen some industrial type work but not nearly enough.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I just go where the work is.

I'm sucked up to mechanical contractors and controls companies. 

I used to think my job was all exciting and glamorous. WTF was I thinking? Now I prefer jobs with good scenery, like nurses and college babes. Second to the scenery, I like working for business people I can learn something from by osmosis. My final request is a good restaurant and convinience store nearby, that way if I get stressed, I can have a cocktail at lunch and break my quitting streak with a can of Cope.

Industrial jobs with a bunch of hard**** union folks and ugly ugly female craftspersons are highly overrated. People get off on seeing big motors and intricate mechanical systems. I've seen enough to know what I'm looking at after a few seconds. The joy is gone, those jobs are a lifesuck. :laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I just go where the work is.
> 
> I'm sucked up to mechanical contractors and controls companies.
> 
> ...


This is why I prefer small to medium sized jobs. High profile gig's are over rated. Back in 07' when the Comcast Tower was going up, that was the big job every swinging **** and their mother was on. (Lot's of BIG work in the city around that time too) I was way out on the edge of the jurisdiction with about 4 or 5 other electricians working in an empty college building. I couldn't have been happier.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

I'm mostly industrial, but I do work in aggregate sites. I've fit out office spaces, and I'm about to convert a gravel stacker to PLC control. The last job was a biggish job, but some are much smaller.


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## failelectric (May 27, 2010)

hardworkingstiff said:


> For me:
> 
> 1972 - 1980, mostly residential with a couple small commercial jobs.
> 
> ...


Thanx for the resume your hired


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

failelectric said:


> Thanx for the resume your hired


LOL, you jest, but that same pump and tank company called me 2 weeks ago looking to hire me ...... again.

We couldn't agree on what I'm worth.


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

I first started out on resi service, we did a few new construction but not many. 

Then I went to a shop that did mostly new resi, I absolutely hated it and it didn't last long.

After that i worked for an outfit that did mostly tenant fitouts in mall stores. That wasn't too bad of a gig, It was mindless work but you were never in one place very long and there was always nice scenery. 

I worked doing big boxes for awhile too, the first few were pretty neat but after that it gets pretty old.

For the last six years I've been working for my current shop doing industrial service and installation. We also do some commercial but most of the time I don't have to touch that part of it. 

I can't see myself doing anything else but industrial work, there are so many different directions to go I just can't see myself getting bored, I guess we'll see. 

My favorite is the old machines with relay logic, It's pretty cool to open up a cabinet and see a couple hundred relays clicking in and out, the same as they've been doing for 60 years. Then having to dig through ancient drawings to trace down a problem or figure out where to tie in a new component.:thumbsup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Started the morning in the very first building I ever worked in as a helper, 41 years ago. A 12 story high rise all FPE....


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

I forgot to mention I've actually done quite a bit of residential and really enjoyed it. I would probably go back but I know I couldn't sustain that type of pace for too long. I started out on a huge housing project where the homes were sort of a semi-custom, so it was at least a little different from house to house. All I really remember though is my foreman yelling at us to go faster ha ha. I guess an average of 1000' of pipe and topping out at 1400' in one day wasn't good enough for him!


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

My main deal is service, specifically water or waste water utility service. But I still get involved in everything else, kinda like Eric's shop we take almost any job, or at least it seems that way.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

backstay said:


> So 'commercial electrician' is hospitals and skyscrapers:no:


 around here it is, im working for a small outfit now building dr offices next to the hospital i worked on with a different company. 
here commercial is pretty much hospitals and schools. lots of emt, big beautiful racks that are perfectly built. industrial is like power plants and manufacturing plants, lots of rigid pipe.

i guess technically anything can be considered commercial even if its an mc job but that bores me and besides i look for more long term projects to hire onto. i love building pipe racks with 20 pipes going across the building or pulling in tandem 650 feeders 400 feet, terminating 750 kva transformers and installing 3 or 4 section panels! i really hate pulling 12 mc cables 80 feet for one building!(but i get back at them by running it like pipe. long straight runs anchored to the ceiling, perfectly straight and spaced correctly the whole way)

most days i leave for work at 5 to get there by 7 and on some jobs im in the ditch for 6 months until they get steel up. i guess a better way to describe it is construction worker


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

In the past 23 years I've done projects from Computer associates, retail commercial, food establishments, hospitals, churches, homes , garages. I'd say every possible commercial and residential project that can exist.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Define 'commercial electrician'.



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_t..._is_the_worst_part_about_being_an_electrician


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

I carry no 14 on my truck if that is an indicator.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I carry no 14 on my truck if that is an indicator.


 haha thats awesome.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Chris Kennedy said:


> I carry no 14 on my truck if that is an indicator.


Hey Chris!

I carry 14 for relay controls (gas stations).

I don't carry any romex and the only piece of a roll of romex I own is 12/2 and it's got a white jacket.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

we use 18/3 for motion sensors....


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Hey Chris!
> 
> I carry 14 for relay controls (gas stations).


12 stranded with a sta-con works fine for control work, only so much room on the truck you know.



> I don't carry any romex and the only piece of a roll of romex I own is 12/2 and it's got a white jacket.


Showing your age Lou.:laughing:


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

so i guess most of you are service truck guys? alot of talk about trucks, this thread went off in left field


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Question: Do you tie ladders to the top of your rig with romex?

Answer: NO, you are a commercial electrician.


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## Tackdriver (Dec 3, 2010)

Started out working in Television stations, that was cool, but the pay was low and job security was not there. Worked in 3 major plant enviornments over the past 20+years, doing everything under the sun that involves electricity. This past week I had to move a control cabinet 30 ft. Had to repull a 600 A circuit for it, repull wiring for 2 150 HP motors, and about a dozen or so smaller motors. Today I wired up the extruder. This job has every type of wiring on it you can imagine, from the 600 A 3 phase, all the way down to ethernet cables. Tonight I recoded a touchpanel for this machine. I actually enjoy PLC/Drive/HMI work. I like converting old junky DC drive/relay logic/discreet control stuff to modern AC drive/PLC/HMI&SCADA 

If I never see a plant environment again it will be too soon. Theres a lot of "politics" in the fron office, and a running ton of morons on the plant floor. Pretty much leaves me out in the cold as I dont enjoy either.

I suppose if you were doing new installs all the time it would be ok, but as for being an employee, it blows the big one. 

I want to go out on my own. But if I cant make that fly, plan B is to get into something else. Go to work for a commercial company, maybe get into linework. My neighbor is a lineman, he loves it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electrolover said:


> we use 18/3 for motion sensors....


 Are you talking low voltage??


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> Are you talking low voltage??


Obviously, that would be an 18/3 Class 3 Plenum cable, or CL3P.

But, it's a Class 2 system.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Obviously, that would be an 18/3 Class 3 Plenum cable, or CL3P.
> 
> But, it's a Class 2 system.


So then it will not work will it?


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Are you talking low voltage??


yeah. its like 12 or 24 dc. its getting to where we are putting in more and more of them. i just did a building with very few switches at all and a boat load of overhead motion sensors for a computer chip company. and it seems like jobs with out motion sensors are getting oc switches. its a green world now


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

After spending 12 yrs in the steel mills doing blast furnace shutdowns and coke oven relines and crawling around in the grease and crap it all got old. To me there is nothing more mundain than being on a 20 man cable pulling crew or tip toeing through the rebar on a 30 foot thick slab job slinging 4" pipe and welding half slip couplings. I got out of there and found a maintenance gig at a plastic plant. Found that I was good at trouble shooting and had a nak for fixing other peoples screw ups.When they went south I got into project management all trades and really liked it. Now I ride a service truck for a big service company doing HVAC support and emergency service work. If that slows down I do small projects running usually 2 to 10 guys. I love my job and the money is great but I would really like to try it on my own. Problem here is all the market for a small shop is res and I have only wired 2 houses in 21 yrs. The industrial around here is all big union and the small union contractors are pretty well all gone. Oh well maybe some day.


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## Jamie (Dec 26, 2010)

I do all commercial and industrial. I do a lot of data center work but also offices,chemical plants, wearhouse work (dry goods and cold storage) Mostly rehab but ground up from time to time. I have a company truck so I also get service work from time to time.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Mostly commercial/industrial here. Very few houses. 

A lot of power plant work, mostly controls. Traffic signals too (yuk!).

Quite a bit of industrial plant work, mostly new. I get to design my own control systems on some of these. 

Not really a lot of buildings, but sometimes I'll get some sort of a system in them to work when everyone else has given up.

Did a lot of service work/small jobs years ago, not so much anymore. 

Quite a bit of generators/motors/controls. A lot of it old and non-standard.

I have an intense dislike for big work; too many egos and politics.

Rob


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## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

Not a contractor, hired hand doing hospitals, schools, factories, offices, etc. Worked for small companies doing high end work on a small scale, occasionally walking onto big jobsites. Just started a new gig, and it seems they're going to make me do resi in addition to commercial/industrial...oh boy. I actually like resi, when I do it for the first time in 8 months and the attic is tall and clean. We'll see how I like doing it on a regular basis.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

micromind said:


> Traffic signals too (yuk!).


What, you don't like standing in front of a metal cabinet out in the sun near traffic or out in the median?


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## wwilson174 (Apr 25, 2008)

To me there is nothing more mundain than being on a 20 man cable pulling crew or tip toeing through the rebar on a 30 foot thick slab job slinging 4" pipe and welding half slip couplings. 

Are those welded couplings legal in Canada? They frown on them in Chicago? not that we stopped using them. They are an economical labor saver. BillW


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

failelectric said:


> Thanx for the resume your hired


i have done almost any commercial application you could name except gas stations.
my only comment is OMG 1972- what lol, i was born in that year.

i dont do shack work, there is gud reason we make more than they do.

im new here so i dont want to chafe anyone's arse, but i can teach a donkey to do houses lol (no offence to anyone)

Smoke


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

wwilson174 said:


> To me there is nothing more mundain than being on a 20 man cable pulling crew or tip toeing through the rebar on a 30 foot thick slab job slinging 4" pipe and welding half slip couplings.
> 
> Are those welded couplings legal in Canada? They frown on them in Chicago? not that we stopped using them. They are an economical labor saver. BillW


no issue with them. we weld them, paint them and then pour thousands of yards of concrete on top. not used so much on surface mounted pipe but that is the only way to go in a slab


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## qckrun (May 18, 2009)

CommericL/ industrial. Worked 4yrs of apprenticeship in colleges new construction and last yr and half in industrial.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> What, you don't like standing in front of a metal cabinet out in the sun near traffic or out in the median?


And have everyone glare at me like I'm intentionally keeping the light red too! 

lol.


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## Kevelectone (Feb 22, 2011)

electrolover said:


> how many hired hands here? just regular joes that build hospitals and skyscrapers? after reading some threads i wonder if the majority of the members are "owner operators" or service truck drivers.


Dont forget schools..:no:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

IDK how, but I am glued into auto body and dealership work now. My fill-in work is Hi-tech base-build and sub-fab installs.

Not as interesting as grocery store work, but cool nonetheless, with it's own share of hard core handyman hack jobs.

My long-term goal is to be the service man for the strip clubs I frequent on my lunch hour.


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## buford (Mar 2, 2011)

I do whatever i can make a buck at


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

buford said:


> I do whatever i can make a buck at


hack!

just my opinion


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

Smoke said:


> hack!
> 
> just my opinion



really dug the other thread. put those romex jerkers in their place.

every shacker thinks hes commercial but in reality most wouldnt last a day in the field. 

they said we cant wire a house? my dog could do a house, its just recepts and lights. lets see those <removed> build a gear or do any real electrical work.

IM A PIPE HAND


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

*********************

In the real world we dont use trucks because our material is delivered by semi. Thats commercial!! If you never used at least one master bundle of pipe on one job your a puss


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

electrolover said:


> they said we cant wire a house? my dog could do a house, its just recepts and lights.


Well then buddy, rattle off all the homeruns in a dwelling if you will.



> IM A PIPE HAND


Sounds like you've spent alot of time with your pipe choked in a submission hold. Now that you've found smoke, you can take care of each other's pipe problems.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

I've worked on several "big" jobs and I've done quite a bit of resi as well. Most of the guys they man up the big jobs with are retards. A resi guy can quickly be trained to do what he's told on a commercial project but throw a commercial guy in a van and tell him to go wire a 3500 sqft house with a 1st year apprentice and he'll be completely lost.


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## EnviroElectric (Feb 19, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> I've worked on several "big" jobs and I've done quite a bit of resi as well. Most of the guys they man up the big jobs with are retards. A resi guy can quickly be trained to do what he's told on a commercial project but throw a commercial guy in a van and tell him to go wire a 3500 sqft house with a 1st year apprentice and he'll be completely lost.


This is true. I worked For 15 years in commercial, as an apprentice, JW and Forman. After starting my own shop and doing both commercial and residential, I now realize that resi can be much more complicated then commercial. A 1000 hour commercial project is frankly not as complicated as bringing in a 100 hour resi remodel on budget. Running pipe requires very little thought, just a tape measure.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

i have had resi journeyman on my crew, they were gofors because thats all they s=could handle. making up a box with ten circuits blows their mind. they tie all the neutrals together. keeping the numbers straight is just too much for em. they dont savy black red blue or shared neutrals or that the ground and neutral dont land on the same buss.

i have wired a couple houses, my way, with metal boxes and mc. they worked out great. resi is just plugs and lights and they are all the same panel its so easy, thats why they dont make any money on a commercial job. when was the last time ou installed a switch gear in a house or a 3 section panel. the resi guys i have seen on commercial jobs could not even read the prints let alone draw out the pipe runs and make sure nothing gets left behind.
houses are easy one circuit one room other than the kitchen which is not hard either.

i installed a main and pulled feeders for a 200 amp panel in a 800amp 480 volt distribution panel today hot. what did you do?


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

EnviroElectric said:


> This is true. I worked For 15 years in commercial, as an apprentice, JW and Forman. After starting my own shop and doing both commercial and residential, I now realize that resi can be much more complicated then commercial. A 1000 hour commercial project is frankly not as complicated as bringing in a 100 hour resi remodel on budget. Running pipe requires very little thought, just a tape measure.



whats the take up on 1 1/4 pipe with a gb bender. 

how do you bend a 2in ofset with 4in pipe on a table bender?

it takes some thought if you want it to be good work.


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## EnviroElectric (Feb 19, 2011)

electrolover said:


> i have had resi journeyman on my crew, they were gofors because thats all they s=could handle. making up a box with ten circuits blows their mind. they tie all the neutrals together. keeping the numbers straight is just too much for em. they dont savy black red blue or shared neutrals or that the ground and neutral dont land on the same buss.
> 
> i have wired a couple houses, my way, with metal boxes and mc. they worked out great. resi is just plugs and lights and they are all the same panel its so easy, thats why they dont make any money on a commercial job. when was the last time ou installed a switch gear in a house or a 3 section panel. the resi guys i have seen on commercial jobs could not even read the prints let alone draw out the pipe runs and make sure nothing gets left behind.
> houses are easy one circuit one room other than the kitchen which is not hard either.
> ...


I had 4 meetings (yesterday, today is Saturday) and gained about $270,000 worth of projects. Not to mention a great lunch. Oh, I also got in a haircut and dropped off some old clothes to the local homeless shelter.

Why would you pull mc in a house? Did you just have some left over? Or was it spec'd out? Or were you just trying to impress yourself?

I would suggest changing your attitude kid. Or you will always be just a "pipe hand", and that may seem cool now, but when your 60 and sitting in some cold ass break shack eating out of a lunchbox it won't seem so great. there is alot more to this industry than bending conduit and humping around gear with a Burke bar.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

EnviroElectric said:


> I had 4 meetings (yesterday, today is Saturday) and gained about $270,000 worth of projects. Not to mention a great lunch. Oh, I also got in a haircut and dropped off some old clothes to the local homeless shelter.
> 
> Why would you pull mc in a house? Did you just have some left over? Or was it spec'd out? Or were you just trying to impress yourself?
> 
> I would suggest changing your attitude kid. Or you will always be just a "pipe hand", and that may seem cool now, but when your 60 and sitting in some cold ass break shack eating out of a lunchbox it won't seem so great. there is alot more to this industry than bending conduit and humping around gear with a Burke bar.




we are not all contractors who make our living from other peoples sweat. 
unfortunately i have to WORK for my check and not waist materiel so my boss will have enough money for his trip to africa next week. he was having a hard time paying for his second benz so he got some illegals hired in this week to keep costs down.


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## EnviroElectric (Feb 19, 2011)

electrolover said:


> whats the take up on 1 1/4 pipe with a gb bender.
> 
> how do you bend a 2in ofset with 4in pipe on a table bender?
> 
> it takes some thought if you want it to be good work.


Agreed, there is thought involved and I have no doubt you are a great hand. But there is just so much more to it. My grandfather was an electrician and tought me how to bend conduit when I was a kid. From day one in the apprenticeship I was great at running a bender. You know where that got me? Taking a ferry every morning at 4:30 to go run 2-4" rigid for a sewer system on an island from OCT-AUG one year. Working 16 hour days building giant racks for data centers and supervising crews of people that just wanted a paycheck. Have at it man. It's all yours. I have moved onto bigger and better things. Hopefully someday you will too.....


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

electrolover said:


> i installed a main and pulled feeders for a 200 amp panel in a 800amp 480 volt distribution panel today hot. what did you do?


You're an idiot.

Today I pulled the seats and carpet out of my Silverado and pressure washed the carpets. Then I cleaned the roof of my house and put some Moss-B-Ware on it. After that I pressure washed the driveway.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

EnviroElectric said:


> Agreed, there is thought involved and I have no doubt you are a great hand. But there is just so much more to it. My grandfather was an electrician and tought me how to bend conduit when I was a kid. From day one in the apprenticeship I was great at running a bender. You know where that got me? Taking a ferry every morning at 4:30 to go run 2-4" rigid for a sewer system on an island from OCT-AUG one year. Working 16 hour days building giant racks for data centers and supervising crews of people that just wanted a paycheck. Have at it man. It's all yours. I have moved onto bigger and better things. Hopefully someday you will too.....



honestly my pot at the end f the rainbow has nothing to do with construction. but today my job is commercial electrical work and i do it well....well at least i twist my joints before i put a cap on, and use a level and try for good looking long lasting product what ever thats worth.

around here a resi foreman makes 14-16 hr. a commercial helper tops out at 17. i have done both but i really hate the lower quality of the finished product in a house. romex just laying over rafters is not appealing to me. and to be frank if i had to do houses for a living i would quit because its just boring, especially when every house is the same floorplan like some local builders use. i would rather be in the ditch running 4in rigid for the summer than some old mans attic sorting threw knob and tube


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

electrolover said:


> honestly my pot at the end f the rainbow has nothing to do with construction. but today my job is commercial electrical work and i do it well....well at least i twist my joints before i put a cap on, and use a level and try for good looking long lasting product what ever thats worth.
> 
> around here a resi foreman makes 14-16 hr. a commercial helper tops out at 17. i have done both but i really hate the lower quality of the finished product in a house. romex just laying over rafters is not appealing to me. and to be frank if i had to do houses for a living i would quit because its just boring, especially when every house is the same floorplan like some local builders use. i would rather be in the ditch running 4in rigid for the summer than some old mans attic sorting threw knob and tube





> well at least i twist my joints before i put a cap on, and use a level and try for good looking long lasting product what ever thats worth.


Good man..:thumbup:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

electrolover said:


> well at least i twist my joints before i put a cap on, and use a level and try for good looking long lasting product what ever thats worth.


In Texas it's worth about $19 per hour.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> In Texas it's worth about $19 per hour.


No No less than $35 per hour is woth it..:thumbup::thumbup:..


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> No No less than $35 per hour is woth it..:thumbup::thumbup:..


Apparently you've never done any work in Texas.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

lol anywhere resi is going to make less than comm. 98/100, no point in debating the actual pay, its area specific.
and to the dillwad who wanted me to rattle off house home runs lol
you are out of your mind if you think i payed one of you guys to wire my house. sure i could rattle off every one, i pulled them, and no i wont appease you
its funny when resi guys try to make fun of us like they are gods gift, not saying we are but, just funny when they do it lol


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

electrolover said:


> i installed a main and pulled feeders for a 200 amp panel in a 800amp 480 volt distribution panel today hot. what did you do?


i cut in a 3000kva transformer.....
 you weren't talking to me lol never mind.....


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Smoke said:


> lol anywhere resi is going to make less than comm. 98/100, no point in debating the actual pay, its area specific.
> and to the dillwad who wanted me to rattle off house home runs lol
> you are out of your mind if you think i payed one of you guys to wire my house. sure i could rattle off every one, i pulled them, and no i wont appease you
> its funny when resi guys try to make fun of us like they are gods gift, not saying we are but, just funny when they do it lol


You could never wire a home as well or efficiently as the guys that do it all the time.

You just could not, and if you say that you can you are a liar.


If anyone comes across as thinking they are Gods gift to the trade it is you.  A typical city blowhard.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

BBQ said:


> You could never wire a home as well or efficiently as the guys that do it all the time.
> 
> You just could not, and if you say that you can you are a liar.


"as well", wrong
"as efficiently" no doubt your right



> If anyone comes across as thinking they are Gods gift to the trade it is you.  A typical city blowhard.


wrong again, good job :thumbsup:


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Well then buddy, rattle off all the homeruns in a dwelling if you will.


 I know I'm not the guy this was directed at, but I'm up for a challenge. I've never wired a house, but I'll try to list the necessary home runs to satisfy the CEC, off the top of my head, sitting in this chair, not running around the house looking at stuff to remind me.

- Outside lighting/recepts (with GFCI)
- furnace (15A for gas/oil, whatever for electric heat)
- basement lighting/recepts
- washing machine
- dryer (30A)
- fire alarms? Not sure if direct-wired is code, now.
- 'living room'
kitchen:
- 20A for each pair of counter-top outlets. GFCI if within 'zone'. 15A split-duplex is an option, but getting rare due to GFCI rules.
- fridge (must be dedicated circuit - the only other load allowed is the clock outlet on the wall, if used)
- microwave (20A, dedicated circuit)
- dishwasher, if applicable
- garberator, if applicable
- stove, 50A
- range hood
- wall outlets, lighting

- hallways and other non-bedroom-or-bathroom areas I'd use one circuit for lighting and receptacles.
- bedrooms: pair them up and put receptacles on dedicated circuits with AFCI. Lighting keep separate so that CFL lighting isn't on AFCI, just to make life a bit easier.
- bathrooms: shaver outlet (GFCI), lighting. Hydromassage tub (GFCI) if applicable.


I think that's about it. Did I miss any? I'm honestly curious.


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## Smoke (Feb 25, 2011)

Mike in Canada said:


> I know I'm not the guy this was directed at, but I'm up for a challenge. I've never wired a house, but I'll try to list the necessary home runs to satisfy the CEC, off the top of my head, sitting in this chair, not running around the house looking at stuff to remind me.
> 
> - Outside lighting/recepts (with GFCI)
> - furnace (15A for gas/oil, whatever for electric heat)
> ...


sump pump (if you have a basement)
water heater (some gas do not need elec.)

most other things i would consider application specific and not worth mentioning...


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

the way the local city inspector explained it, even a light in a bed room is considered an outlet. i argued and he showed me def in the book. so the bedroom lighting has to be on an arcfualt, so does the dedicated smoke detector circuit unless in pipe or steel mc. 
living rooms need to be arc fualt too if your going by the 08(they use 02 here)


these guys got it down pretty good, one room one circuit, the switch is the home run box. its cheap but if i tryed something like that at work id get fired on the spot


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electrolover said:


> the way the local city inspector explained it, even a light in a bed room is considered an outlet. i argued and he showed me def in the book.


He is/was absolutely right. The definition of "outlet" in the NEC has not changed, pretty much ever.

This is electric 101. Or should I say electric Art. 100.


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## electrolover (Feb 12, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> He is/was absolutely right. The definition of "outlet" in the NEC has not changed, pretty much ever.
> 
> This is electric 101. Or should I say electric Art. 100.



not arguing that speedy, just tellin him the lights need arc fault too.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

electrolover said:


> not arguing that speedy, just tellin him the lights need arc fault too.


 As I said before, I was stating the requirements for the CEC - Canadian Electrical Code. Not the NEC.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Mike in Canada said:


> I know I'm not the guy this was directed at, but I'm up for a challenge. I've never wired a house, but I'll try to list the necessary home runs to satisfy the CEC, off the top of my head, ...............s.


To satisfy the NEC, you would need:

2 20a kitchen SABC circuits.
1 20a laundry circuit.
1 20a bath circuit.
1 15a circuit for anything else.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> To satisfy the NEC, you would need:
> 
> 2 20a kitchen SABC circuits.
> 1 20a laundry circuit.
> ...



I'm not sure what you mean by "SABC". Small appliance branch circuit? If so, ours is based on the size of the counter. The minimum is one circuit (and one plug outlet) but reality is that since you can't have more than two outlets on a circuit you end up with several in a decent-sized kitchen.

The laundry room *is* supposed to be supplied by a dedicated circuit under the CEC (I'm looking up stuff now) but it need only be 15A, and it can supply both the washing machine and 'other' plugs, like ironing board plugs. Needless to say this is the *minimum*.

Bath circuits should be only 15A, here. 20A is allowed, though. It is suggested that 20A circuits be reserved for 'special' outlets. It is specifically stipulated that many loads (lighting, etc.) be supplied by 15A breakers only.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

electrolover said:


> *i have wired a couple houses, my way*, with metal boxes and mc. they worked out great. what did you do?


:laughing: :laughing: whatever clown. I'll bet you were the punchline of the week when the inspectors got together for coffee.

I done big commercial, and sub-divisions of spec homes. I will snap some photos of old FPE panels in commercial establishments packed with spaghetti and code violations for you. Then you can tell me how lame commercial service is, and how it's the work of losers. :laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

electrolover said:


> i installed a main and pulled feeders for a 200 amp panel in a 800amp 480 volt distribution panel today hot.


Is that all you did?? Doesn't seem like 8 hours of work to me.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

electrolover said:


> whats the take up on 1 1/4 pipe with a gb bender.
> 
> how do you bend a 2in ofset with 4in pipe on a table bender?
> 
> it takes some thought if you want it to be good work.


I would have thought a commercial guru such as yourself wouldn't need to ask.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> I would have thought a commercial guru such as yourself wouldn't need to ask.


I have read his post, he has no clue.


The facts is, there are parts of the trade were some of the best on this forum would be lost for a while if they were thrown in the mix. But if one is mechanically inclined and have some common sense, they could pick up that portion of our diverse trade with some effort.

If you think you are better than anyone else because you are an "expert" with conduit, I think the PLC, fire alarm or estimators could make you look like a dummy if they so wished. But most of our members are professionals and would take you under their wing and teach you.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> But most of our members are professionals and would take you under their wing and teach you.


To be a real professional takes desire and ability. Some people have one, some have none, few have both.

No denying it, this is a mercenary business, the guy who has both is fundamentally a competitor. I won't help accelerate a kid's development who has both unless there is something in it for myself, concrete or abstract. But I do love a good egg!

What I would love to see, is everybody's skills-sets come together like pieces in a jig-saw puzzle to make a masterpiece. That way, the pieces want to stay together in harmony, rather than wander off to some other misfit puzzle, or a smaller puzzle where they feel like a larger piece in the picture. IDK, electricians are complicated creatures, we need our own branch of industrial psychology. :blink:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> . I won't help accelerate a kid's development who has both unless there is something in it for myself, concrete or abstract. But I do love a good egg!
> 
> :


I'll help anybody any time any where. I'll share what little I know with JW's, helpers, apprentices and the competition if they are helpful to me. There is nothing I know that cannot be gleaned by anybody if they put a little effort into it.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

brian john said:


> I'll help anybody any time any where.


So will I but usually I need to make fun of them first.


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

> we are not all contractors who make our living from other peoples sweat.
> unfortunately i have to WORK for my check and not waist materiel so my boss will have enough money for his trip to africa next week. he was having a hard time paying for his second benz so he got some illegals hired in this week to keep costs down.


 


It must burn your butt knowing you can be replaced by another human with limited native language skills, and probably zero training in your given field of "expertise".


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> So will I but usually I need to make fun of them first.


That is a given


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> The facts is, there are parts of the trade were some of the best on this forum would be lost for a while if they were thrown in the mix. But if one is mechanically inclined and have some common sense, they could pick up that portion of our diverse trade with some effort.


I think some of us put ourselves in those situations cause we enjoy it or we're crazy. I know I've never turned down a job cause I had no clue how to do it, the answer from me has always been "yeah I can do that". 



brian john said:


> But most of our members are professionals and would take you under their wing and teach you.


:thumbsup: yep


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> I think some of us put ourselves in those situations cause we enjoy it or we're crazy. I know I've never turned down a job cause I had no clue how to do it, the answer from me has always been "yeah I can do that".



And that's how most do it.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> And that's how most do it.


Fake it till you make it.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

electrolover said:


> i have had resi journeyman on my crew, they were gofors because thats all they s=could handle. making up a box with ten circuits blows their mind. they tie all the neutrals together. keeping the numbers straight is just too much for em. they dont savy black red blue or shared neutrals or that the ground and neutral dont land on the same buss.
> 
> i have wired a couple houses, my way, with metal boxes and mc. they worked out great. resi is just plugs and lights and they are all the same panel its so easy, thats why they dont make any money on a commercial job. when was the last time ou installed a switch gear in a house or a 3 section panel. the resi guys i have seen on commercial jobs could not even read the prints let alone draw out the pipe runs and make sure nothing gets left behind.
> houses are easy one circuit one room other than the kitchen which is not hard either.
> ...


 

Sorry about all your woe's Vince.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGMkEfuWZHM&feature=related


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

mattsilkwood said:


> I first started out on resi service, we did a few new construction but not many.
> 
> Then I went to a shop that did mostly new resi, I absolutely hated it and it didn't last long.
> 
> ...


 
You brought up older control/relay panels. I have to agree, that is fun chit:thumbsup:


Ever utilize a MagProbe?


http://www.inventorbob.com/magprobe.php


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## EnviroElectric (Feb 19, 2011)

miller_elex said:


> Fake it till you make it.


If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bull****


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## Casketmaker (Mar 10, 2011)

Commercial fire alarms baby dont get much better


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

HALON? What you protecting?


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## Casketmaker (Mar 10, 2011)

miller_elex said:


> HALON? What you protecting?


911 emergency call center just inspecting the system well 2 systems


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## Casketmaker (Mar 10, 2011)

miller_elex said:


> HALON? What you protecting?


 One halon one FM200


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

brian john said:


> And that's how most do it.


Winging it is my signature. The engineers I work with hate it, some of the guys hate it, sometimes management hates it. The more they hate it the more I do it. :laughing:


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Feel like I'm filling out a resume ~

4 yrs in the Navy as an Electrician's mate (schooled) on a Submarine Tender.

Two years of cable tv installation.

Two years non union, open shop doing residential and small commercial.:jester:

Two year apprenticeship with union starting in 86.
Took Mike Holt's, and Janes Stallcup's Master courses, wrote an administrators ticket in 93 

88 JW card and have done sky scrapers, major fire alarm, lots of oil field, lots of military defense projects, service work, even worked on a couple of wind mills (1.5 MW). Do so some estimating, buying, and foreman, or jw for whatever comes up. Microvolts to megavolts, 1/2" emt, to 6" Robroy, even cable tray, got it covered:thumbsup:

5 years left to go to retirement at the soonest. Am a pretty good "codemeister' most of the time. Wouldn't mind going into teaching. Dissappointed in the anount of regulation that has crept into the industry as a whole - I want to be safe, but don't need, or want, nanny state regulation!:no: 

Did I mention - being left handed, in this trade, at times, is challenging? :laughing:


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

*HALON? What you protecting?*

I am not sure , but i thought that " HALON " is illegal now ? I have been in circumstances with the " DEAD MANS SWITCH "

Love big big commercial , love Resi..... but what i really like is

Carpentry ..... wood only. Love the smell !


Don " Outstanding Citizen of the Conch Republic "


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

donaldelectrician said:


> I am not sure , but i thought that " HALON " is illegal now ? I have been in circumstances with the " DEAD MANS SWITCH "
> 
> Love big big commercial , love Resi..... but what i really like is
> 
> ...


Halon still protects a lot of oilfield installations here in Alaska. When there is a Halon dump ($hit happens ) there is lots of hoopla about damage to the environment, etc. The fines (even at $2000 a bottle) are miniscule compared to what they protect. Key factor is they are "existing" systems for like 30+ years, don't fix what's not broken...:whistling2:


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

running dummy said:


> I forgot to mention I've actually done quite a bit of residential and really enjoyed it. I would probably go back but I know I couldn't sustain that type of pace for too long. I started out on a huge housing project where the homes were sort of a semi-custom, so it was at least a little different from house to house. All I really remember though is my foreman yelling at us to go faster ha ha. I guess an average of 1000' of pipe and topping out at 1400' in one day wasn't good enough for him!


Who did you work for? Resi work is the same throughout Chicago, yelling at everyone to go faster. That's when I would pit the brakes on. There's only so much you can put up with.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I was a residential guy yesterday.. Paid good enough but I was hating that insulation and dreaming about a drop ceiling.


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## ohmslaw (Apr 2, 2011)

Commercial electrician here. I do a lot of gas station explosion proof work. I was wondering since I am new here if someone could tell me which thread would be best to ask a question about licences? Thanks this seems like a great site.


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## ejmatt (Apr 3, 2011)

I just joined up, I spose I will be a commercial/industrial electrician, or "electrical fitter" technically when I am all trained up (only a 1st year apprentice).

Most of my work current work is servicing mine vehicles+starter panels, mine ventilation fans, overhauling various substations from the 70's/80's, and of course working in the dreaded medical waste treatment and disposal plant. Not to mention a few other little odd jobs here and there


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

I've been in the trade for over 30 years. I did residential for about two weeks in my first year and quit. From that point on I've done mostly commercial and some industrial.

Ground up grocery stores, remodeled grocery stores.

Schools, hospitals, malls. highrise office, large hotels, legoland california

the California adventure theme park, power plants, many tenant improvements, and much more.

Right now I'm a one man shop doing almost all residential service work. Putting in lights fans plugs and small remodels.

I have a new appreciation for residential electricains. The work is more physically taxing in many ways than other aspects of the trade.

As soon as I can I'll be getting back to commercial and industrial work. The pay is better and it is what I am accustomed to.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

ohmslaw said:


> Commercial electrician here. I do a lot of gas station explosion proof work. I was wondering since I am new here if someone could tell me which thread would be best to ask a question about licences? Thanks this seems like a great site.


Either General Electric or Business.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

cthermond said:


> I've been in the trade for over 30 years. I did residential for about two weeks in my first year and quit. From that point on I've done mostly commercial and some industrial.
> 
> Ground up grocery stores, remodeled grocery stores.
> 
> ...


How did you like industrial work? What kind of jobs/tasks did you have to perform on industrial sites?


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

sparks134 said:


> How did you like industrial work? What kind of jobs/tasks did you have to perform on industrial sites?


Industrial was ok. One job was at allflex aluminum in Gardena Ca. It was an aluminum recycling plant, very greasy very nasty. They were changing out a milling machine. Another job was at Texas Instruments in Dallas Tx, at the time it was one of the largest clean rooms in the country. I was doing mostly cable trays and running cable for plc's.
The most interesting job was at a ground up power plant in Escondido Ca. I ran a lot of aluminum and rigid conduit in different parts of the plant. At the power plant I also worked on control wiring, and medium voltage cable terminations. I enjoyed it, it was nice to get a break from commercial tenant improvements and the like. Opportunities to work on industrial jobs here in San Diego County are rare, there's not much industry here.


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

So would you say it would be an easy transition from commercial work to industrial work?


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

sparks134 said:


> So would you say it would be an easy transition from commercial work to industrial work?


I would say it's not that difficult. If you can run rigid conduit then it won't be difficult at all. If you are a good mechanic you should have no problem. Like everything else you have to get familiar with the different kinds of materials.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

There was a time when I enjoyed doing high end residential....not anymore...guys are doing them for nothing.. and you have to work like an Illegal immagrant to make any money doing them.....

Commercial work and industrial work is fun for about a day.....Im not sure what so many of you like about humping 3 inch emt and rigid all day....Maybe its a macho thing...? Although I do agree the money is much much better in the later two fields... I just dont want to be the guy doing it.........LOL..


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Commercial work and industrial work is fun for about a day.....Im not sure what so many of you like about humping 3 inch emt and rigid all day....Maybe its a macho thing...? Although I do agree the money is much much better in the later two fields... *I just dont want to be the guy doing it.........LOL..*


Grind it out, sooner than you think your only labor might be signing the checks. :thumbsup:


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## sparks134 (Jan 30, 2009)

cthermond said:


> I would say it's not that difficult. If you can run rigid conduit then it won't be difficult at all. If you are a good mechanic you should have no problem. Like everything else you have to get familiar with the different kinds of materials.


I'm thinking of going for it!!! Thanks for your quick replys cthermond!


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

sparks134 said:


> I'm thinking of going for it!!! Thanks for your quick replys cthermond!


I used to live in Pittsburg from 1970 to 1973. I have a brother that is currently living there as well as cousins and aunts and some friends. Much of my mothers side of the family lives their.


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## BEAMEUP (Sep 19, 2008)

:thumbup1:


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## IBEW191 (Apr 4, 2011)

Data centers, dams, fruit packing sheds, mills, I come from the hall i do it all:thumbsup::thumbup: Hate rez work


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## ryan.rouse (Mar 25, 2011)

I do industrial jobs and do alot of PLC, Probox, and DCS cabinets. Do alot of work for Conoco and Oneok. Includes all of the above, compressor skids, controls, calibrating all sorts of transmitters, gauges, UPS installations, phase converts just about everyhing.:ninja:


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