# Is This Correct



## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Does sound pretty low. Total IBEW membership nationwide is approximately 750,000. Good chunk of those are apprentices.


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## J.Dunner (Apr 21, 2013)

brian john said:


> More than 300 NJATC programs are in operation across the country and more than 48,000 apprentices are currently enrolled in the multi-year training programs, including some 5,000 telecom installer/technician and *36,000 electrician apprentices.*
> 
> Doesn't this number seem low, based on a national count of IBEW apprentices?
> 
> http://ecmweb.com/cee-news-archive/neca-and-ibew-tout-apprenticeship-program-relieve-labor-shortage


I dunno....Maybe maybe not. Like to get a number for inside "A" membership



erics37 said:


> Does sound pretty low. Total IBEW membership nationwide is approximately 750,000. Good chunk of those are apprentices.


You realize that number is old, and way down right? Plus that's total membership. Also, as of now the majority of the IBEW is made up of lineman who work for public utilities. Construction membership, "A" Inside wireman is way down unfortunately.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

J.Dunner said:


> I dunno....Maybe maybe not. Like to get a number for inside "A" membership
> 
> 
> 
> You realize that number is old, and way down right? Plus that's total membership. Also, as of now the majority of the IBEW is made up of lineman who work for public utilities. Construction membership, "A" Inside wireman is way down unfortunately.


 
I know years ago, pre-China industrialization, a fair number of members were working for manufactures in producing electrical material.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

J.Dunner said:


> I dunno....Maybe maybe not. Like to get a number for inside "A" membership
> 
> You realize that number is old, and way down right? Plus that's total membership. Also, as of now the majority of the IBEW is made up of lineman who work for public utilities. Construction membership, "A" Inside wireman is way down unfortunately.


We have a ton of IBEW members that do not do "inside wireman" work.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

nolabama said:


> We have a ton of IBEW members that do not do "inside wireman" work.


 Linemen?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

brian john said:


> Linemen?


No signalmen and shop electricians for our locomotives. The shop guys "do" work on drives and stuff but mostly make up locomotives and hostel locomotives


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

nolabama said:


> No signalmen and shop electricians for our locomotives. The shop guys "do" work on drives and stuff but mostly make up locomotives and* hostel locomotives*


 
hostel locomotives and these are?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

brian john said:


> hostel locomotives and these are?


Hostlers , they move the locomotives from one service area to another. It is commonly the electrician that does this. They have machinist and electricians.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

The July 2013 "Electrical Worker" (IBEW publication) said that for 2012 there were only about ~28,000 apprentices across all of their programs. The article also says that we will need to grow the number of electricians by 23% between now and 2020.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> The July 2013 "Electrical Worker" (IBEW publication) said that for 2012 there were only about ~28,000 apprentices across all of their programs. *The article also says that we will need to grow the number of electricians by 23% between now and 2020.*


WHY??

To man work? :no:

Or to cover pensions and other liabilities? :whistling2:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

HackWork said:


> WHY??
> 
> To man work? :no:
> 
> Or to cover pensions and other liabilities? :whistling2:


If you don't keep expanding your numbers, how will you cover pensions. Just look at SS.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

backstay said:


> If you don't keep expanding your numbers, how will you cover pensions. Just look at SS.


Yes, thank you, that was my point.

So now they are going to continue to increase the membership which will make even less work for each member.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

backstay said:


> If you don't keep expanding your numbers, how will you cover pensions. Just look at SS.





HackWork said:


> Yes, thank you, that was my point.
> 
> So now they are going to continue to increase the membership which will make even less work for each member.


The need for growth applies to the whole economic structure. We live in a finite environment, and it seems to me that eventually (long after I'm dead and gone) an economic system will have to emerge that does not depend on growth. Lot's of paradigm changes when that happens (like wealth hording not being allowed).


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Yeah, let's see how that works out when the IBEW looses another 5% of it's marketshare yet increases it's membership by 23% :bangin:


I'm glad I jumped ship :whistling2:


Now I'm hopeful that they increase membership because I want my pension to be paid when I'm eligible in 30 years :thumbup:


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

hardworkingstiff said:


> The need for growth applies to the whole economic structure. We live in a finite environment, and it seems to me that eventually (long after I'm dead and gone) an economic system will have to emerge that does not depend on growth. Lot's of paradigm changes when that happens (like wealth hording not being allowed).


And who decides that? You speak of communism, working out real well that is.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

backstay said:


> And who decides that? You speak of communism, working out real well that is.


No I am not speaking of communism.

As far as who decides, the market will. It will be much worse than it was in the 1930's and we won't be able to print our way out like 2008 (to now).

What kind of system do you think we are in now? Capitalism? The FED doing all this printing and the money elite controlling Congress is not how capitalism is supposed to work.


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## big2bird (Oct 1, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I'm glad I jumped ship :whistling2:
> 
> 
> Now I'm hopeful that they increase membership because I want my pension to be paid when I'm eligible in 30 years :thumbup:


In our local, if you are caught working non union, you get that pension pulled. You just might check into that.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

big2bird said:


> In our local, if you are caught working non union, you get that pension pulled. You just might check into that.


I don't believe that would be legal.


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## J.Dunner (Apr 21, 2013)

big2bird said:


> In our local, if you are caught working non union, you get that pension pulled. You just might check into that.


Thats a myth. I don't know where that comes from. The only time you can have your pension taken from you is when the government allows wall street to hustle the funds.


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## J.Dunner (Apr 21, 2013)

big2bird said:


> In our local, if you are caught working non union, you get that pension pulled. You just might check into that.


Not to mention, if a member allows his dues to elapse, and the IO drops the member, there is absolutely nothing the local can do legally to that now former member if he becomes a non union employee. Now, if that person remains a member in good standing and is working with their "ticket in their shoe" as its called, then that's a different story.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

We lose our retirement if we go to jail. I don't know how long we have to be in jail for forfeiture to occur. It is not an IBEW pension.


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## J.Dunner (Apr 21, 2013)

nolabama said:


> We lose our retirement if we go to jail. I don't know how long we have to be in jail for forfeiture to occur. It is not an IBEW pension.


You are covered by R&R plan right?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

J.Dunner said:


> Thats a myth. I don't know where that comes from. The only time you can have your pension taken from you is when the government allows wall street to hustle the funds.


I read on IBEW Friends and Family about how the IO looks 5 years back to see if you worked for a non-union contractor, and if so they don't give you your NEBF pension. I still can't see how that is legal.

You and I have probably talked about this before.

Anyways, I'll be happy to go back to the IBEW when there is less than an 18-20 month wait for a 4-6 week call, just to be laid off and go to the back of the list again. Until then, they can't do anything if they can't put you to work.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

nolabama said:


> We lose our retirement if we go to jail. I don't know how long we have to be in jail for forfeiture to occur. It is not an IBEW pension.


I love that... So who benefits when you go to jail? Who gets YOUR money?


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## J.Dunner (Apr 21, 2013)

HackWork said:


> *I read on IBEW Friends and Family.........*


Well..........


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I love that... So who benefits when you go to jail? Who gets YOUR money?


We have a fully funded retirement program. Yes that would suck big time. It is "my" money,but we have rules to abide by. Personally I think that its a decent rule. 
We are set-up like social security should be. You have to work till 60 to get it. You don't get no crazy checks either. Disability is something altogether different. Comes from a different pot.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

We have 2150 A Apprentices in our program currently.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

icefalkon said:


> We have 2150 A Apprentices in our program currently.


Is that above average? Below? About the same?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

We have 1800 A journeymen and I believe 170 apprentices - we usually run about 10 percent or so. The bad economy has resulted in less retirements so less incoming apprentices.


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## Jbowyer24 (Apr 7, 2013)

Eeejack, which local are you from? I see you're in NJ.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

nolabama said:


> Is that above average? Below? About the same?


It's average.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

The 23% is the expected increase in the total number of electricians, both union and non, that are expected to be need in the US by 2020. If the IBEW is to maintain or increase its market share, then it must have the membership to put 23% more electricians to work by 2020 then they have working now. Given the unemployment numbers in some locals, they will not need to add 23% to their current total membership.

The expected labor shortage will impact both the union and non-union sectors of the industry.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I read on IBEW Friends and Family about how the IO looks 5 years back to see if you worked for a non-union contractor, and if so they don't give you your NEBF pension. I still can't see how that is legal.
> 
> You and I have probably talked about this before.
> 
> Anyways, I'll be happy to go back to the IBEW when there is less than an 18-20 month wait for a 4-6 week call, just to be laid off and go to the back of the list again. Until then, they can't do anything if they can't put you to work.


 its ben many years ago but i recall union guys working for me, (at the time things really slow here and i had one big job) that they wanted to be sure everything was under the table for that particular reason.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

brian john said:


> More than 300 NJATC programs are in operation across the country and more than 48,000 apprentices are currently enrolled in the multi-year training programs, including some 5,000 telecom installer/technician and *36,000 electrician apprentices.*
> 
> Doesn't this number seem low, based on a national count of IBEW apprentices?
> 
> http://ecmweb.com/cee-news-archive/neca-and-ibew-tout-apprenticeship-program-relieve-labor-shortage


In what kind of math does 36,000+5,000=48,000?


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

Jbowyer24 said:


> Eeejack, which local are you from? I see you're in NJ.


Local #164 - Bergen Hudson Essex counties. Our local does not have a lineman book, we pull from 456 when we need them - just inside wiremen and specialists here.


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