# Tone generator on AC circuits



## Sparky305

Has anyone ever used a tone generator to trace electrical wiring through the wall? I saw the data guy using one (my first time seeing one), to trace some low voltage cabling and I think it could be used to trace our wiring too, with the circuit off obviously.

Also, if this is done, do I have to shut off all the branch circuits that share the same neutral as the circuit I'm tracing? I would imagine so. I've never used one of these tools before but they seem very useful! Thanks.


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## Sbargers

Sparky305 said:


> Has anyone ever used a tone generator to trace electrical wiring through the wall? I saw the data guy using one (my first time seeing one), to trace some low voltage cabling and I think it could be used to trace our wiring too, with the circuit off obviously.
> 
> Also, if this is done, do I have to shut off all the branch circuits that share the same neutral as the circuit I'm tracing? I would imagine so. I've never used one of these tools before but they seem very useful! Thanks.


I have a fluke? One you can set it for energized or de energized circuits. Its also a circuit finder for service work by yourself and you can find a bad wire de energize it and follow through walls to find the break or short.


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## BBQ

Sparky305 said:


> Has anyone ever used a tone generator to trace electrical wiring through the wall? I saw the data guy using one (my first time seeing one), to trace some low voltage cabling and I think it could be used to trace our wiring too, with the circuit off obviously.
> 
> Also, if this is done, do I have to shut off all the branch circuits that share the same neutral as the circuit I'm tracing? I would imagine so. I've never used one of these tools before but they seem very useful! Thanks.


If you using the standard phone line tone generator like this one. 











It is for dead lines only. But it is very handy I use it a lot for tracing building wiring.


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## HackWork

Will a toner like that work with MC/BX?


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## Sparky305

BBQ said:


> If you using the standard phone line tone generator like this one.
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> It is for dead lines only. But it is very handy I use it a lot for tracing building wiring.


yea it was just like that, but a different brand. Now do I have to shut off all the branch circuits sharing the same neutral?


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## ohmontherange

BBQ said:


> If you using the standard phone line tone generator like this one.
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> It is for dead lines only. But it is very handy I use it a lot for tracing building wiring.


I have a Progessive Electronics one like that but older. The old yellow one.


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## wcord

HackWork said:


> Will a toner like that work with MC/BX?


Not that I have found. The metal jacket is a shield and muffles the tone.
Works very well on plastic coated only ( de-energized of course)


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## Sparky305

wcord said:


> Not that I have found. The metal jacket is a shield and muffles the tone.
> Works very well on plastic coated only ( de-energized of course)


I'm guessing this applies to EMT, or any metal raceway as well?


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## 480sparky

HackWork said:


> Will a toner like that work with MC/BX?


No... the metal sheath will stop the signal. You will get a signal only at open boxes and such.


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## Southeast Power

Sparky305 said:


> Has anyone ever used a tone generator to trace electrical wiring through the wall? I saw the data guy using one (my first time seeing one), to trace some low voltage cabling and I think it could be used to trace our wiring too, with the circuit off obviously.
> 
> Also, if this is done, do I have to shut off all the branch circuits that share the same neutral as the circuit I'm tracing? I would imagine so. I've never used one of these tools before but they seem very useful! Thanks.


Yes,
It's a really good and cheap way to find Romex inside walls.
It will not work very well finding concealed circuits in a metallic raceway or cable.


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## Southeast Power

Sbargers said:


> I have a fluke? One you can set it for energized or de energized circuits. Its also a circuit finder for service work by yourself and you can find a bad wire de energize it and follow through walls to find the break or short.


Which model Fluke do you have?


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## papaotis

it only works on knob and tube wiring , buti have an ideal non contact voltage tester that will follow the hot wire from two feet away! found this out by accident. was very corn-fused at first, till i figured out what was happening!:blink::thumbup:


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## Going_Commando

papaotis said:


> it only works on knob and tube wiring , buti have an ideal non contact voltage tester that will follow the hot wire from two feet away! found this out by accident. was very corn-fused at first, till i figured out what was happening!:blink::thumbup:


I used a Progressive tone generator to trace some romex (de-energized of course) last Wednesday. The customer wanted to repurpose some electric heat wiring for something else, and all the double pole breakers in the panel were labeled as "heat". Slapped the tone generator on it, found the circuit in the panel, and re-wired it for what I needed. Slicker than sheep sh*t, that is.


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## papaotis

progressive a brand name? ya know dont we get all cool stuff out here in the corn:laughing:


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## TOOL_5150

papaotis said:


> progressive a brand name? ya know dont we get all cool stuff out here in the corn:laughing:


Yes, progressive electronics


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## aftershockews

Sparky305 said:


> yea it was just like that, but a different brand. Now do I have to shut off all the branch circuits sharing the same neutral?


Good question. I probably would.


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## FastFokker

Sparky305 said:


> Now do I have to shut off all the branch circuits sharing the same neutral?


Nope, don't need to. Put it on the dead hot and neutral and it'll tone out fine.

Can even flip the breaker on... tone will stop, but wont hurt the equipment.


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## TOOL_5150

"do I have to shut off all the branch circuits sharing the same neutral?"

No. I have toned a dead pair of conductors from a MWBC and found them with no problem on the other end.


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## TOOL_5150

Keep in mind... depending on the loads on the circuit, the tone generator may not work.


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## BBQ

FastFokker said:


> Nope, don't need to. Put it on the dead hot and neutral and it'll tone out fine.
> 
> Can even flip the breaker on... tone will stop, but wont hurt the equipment.


I don't recommend that, I have smoked one from flipping the breaker on and I know others have as well.

The phone / data toners are not made for live use. 

Why would they be?


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## HackWork

I got the fluke Pro 3000 due to so many people recommending it, but never got a chance to use it. I've used toners before, but mainly on exposed tele/data wiring when the labels came off during the pulls.

It's too bad that most of my uses for it would be tracing out old BX in the walls, since it won't work for that


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## Southeast Power

I would think that they would have at least some protection from the ringing voltage.
Could be that some brands have protection.


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## Southeast Power

HackWork said:


> I got the fluke Pro 3000 due to so many people recommending it, but never got a chance to use it. I've used toners before, but mainly on exposed tele/data wiring when the labels came off during the pulls.
> 
> It's too bad that most of my uses for it would be tracing out old BX in the walls, since it won't work for that
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 27812


When on a pipe job, I can run the receiver past a receptacle (plug ) or switch and if the conductors are in there it will at least show that.


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## BBQ

jrannis said:


> I would think that they would have at least some protection from the ringing voltage.
> Could be that some brands have protection.


To each thier own, personally I won't use mine live. I have live tracers for that.

At $70 for the tel data tone generator it upsets me to break it.


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## macmikeman

BBQ said:


> I don't recommend that, I have smoked one from flipping the breaker on and I know others have as well.
> 
> The phone / data toners are not made for live use.
> 
> Why would they be?


This is the truth. They don't smell very good after you flip the breaker back on and forget to disconnect the tone generator first.......

Plus the 9v battery doesn't like it much either.


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## aftershockews

macmikeman said:


> This is the truth. They don't smell very good after you flip the breaker back on and forget to disconnect the tone generator first.......
> 
> Plus the 9v battery doesn't like it much either.


I have the fluke and I am not going to chance seeing how it will handle a live circuit when tracing wires.

I have had great success using it to find wires in walls.


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## aftershockews

HackWork said:


> I got the fluke Pro 3000 due to so many people recommending it, but never got a chance to use it. I've used toners before, but mainly on exposed tele/data wiring when the labels came off during the pulls.
> 
> It's too bad that most of my uses for it would be tracing out old BX in the walls, since it won't work for that
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 27812


I may be wrong but if you can isolate the sheathing on the BX from the system and place one clip on it then you could trace it through the walls.

I like that when working alone adding a switch or receptacle to a wall, I will drill a hole in the top plate, cut a length of coax, strip and clip, drop the coax down the wall and locate it with the receiver.


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## BBQ

aftershockews said:


> I have the fluke and I am not going to chance seeing how it will handle a live circuit when tracing wires.


From Flukes web site regarding the Pro 3000



> Over Voltage Protection
> 
> 
> 60 Vdc in Toner/Polarity Mode



But hey, what does Fluke know. :jester:


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## aftershockews

BBQ said:


> From Flukes web site regarding the Pro 3000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But hey, what does Fluke know. :jester:


Well heck, then I can do like FastFokker suggested since he knows better. 



> Nope, don't need to. Put it on the dead hot and neutral and it'll tone out fine.
> 
> *Can even flip the breaker on... tone will stop, but wont hurt the equipment.*


:laughing::laughing:


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## HackWork

aftershockews said:


> I like that when working alone adding a switch or receptacle to a wall, I will drill a hole in the top plate, cut a length of coax, strip and clip, drop the coax down the wall and locate it with the receiver.


I typically drop a sash chain down and use a magnet to find it thru the wall and pull it over to wherever I make the opening.


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## aftershockews

HackWork said:


> I typically drop a sash chain down and use a magnet to find it thru the wall and pull it over to wherever I make the opening.


What does it look like? I use a chain too, but it is brass, but strong. I tried a metal one, but the links would pull apart.


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## HackWork

aftershockews said:


> What does it look like? I use a chain too, but it is brass, but strong. I tried a metal one, but the links would pull apart.


It's the chain that used to be used in old windows to connect the counter weight to the sash. Google sash chain and you'll see it. It's got a weight rating of over 100lbs.

Typically I could just reach in and grab it, but being able to located it and move it thru the wall with the magnet is an added benefit.


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## aftershockews

HackWork said:


> It's the chain that used to be used in old windows to connect the counter weight to the sash. Google sash chain and you'll see it. It's got a weight rating of over 100lbs.
> 
> Typically I could just reach in and grab it, but being able to located it and move it thru the wall with the magnet is an added benefit.


I just looked it up. We use the one that is brass? Non magnetic. I will see if I can find someone local that has a steel version.


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## HackWork

Home Depot has it in their chain section. 

You could see some of mine in the tube at the bottom right (along with other types of chains for various purposes):


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## BBQ

aftershockews said:


> Well heck, then I can do like FastFokker suggested since he knows better.
> 
> 
> :laughing::laughing:


It's your money, go nuts.:laughing:

If you want to backfeed a 9VDC device with 120 AC when the manufacturer only claims protection to 60 VDC who am I to stand in your way.:jester:


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## aftershockews

BBQ said:


> It's your money, go nuts.:laughing:
> 
> If you want to backfeed a 9VDC device with 120 AC when the manufacturer only claims protection to 60 VDC who am I to stand in your way.:jester:


Now you know I was being sarcastic. I would never do that.



Or would I?:laughing:

:no:


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## wcord

HackWork said:


> It's the chain that used to be used in old windows to connect the counter weight to the sash. Google sash chain and you'll see it. It's got a weight rating of over 100lbs.
> 
> Typically I could just reach in and grab it, but being able to located it and move it thru the wall with the magnet is an added benefit.


I like this for a magnet. It's called a Wet Noodle and is quite strong


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## FastFokker

BBQ said:


> It's your money, go nuts.:laughing:
> 
> If you want to backfeed a 9VDC device with 120 AC when the manufacturer only claims protection to 60 VDC who am I to stand in your way.:jester:


I'm not saying to do it, but I'm saying I do it. :laughing:

Most of my tools say not to use on live circuits, but most of them get used on live circuits.

I'm a real bad ass.


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## HackWork

wcord said:


> I like this for a magnet. It's called a Wet Noodle and is quite strong


Me too, you could see it in my "Glock Case Full Of Tricks" that I put in post #34 :thumbup:


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## Linhawk

*Me too*



ohmontherange said:


> I have a Progessive Electronics one like that but older. The old yellow one.



I love mine for sorting through a mess of wires.


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## aftershockews

...........


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## nrp3

If you are serious about service work, having a real live/dead AC tracer and the ones discussed is the way to go. I use mine at least once a week and can't see working without one. I keep the progressive one for what its meant for, the low voltage stuff. It has its place too.


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