# Hospital grade MC



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Got a job coming up that needs it. Already talked to supply house to get a price on the stuff ($$$!) and hospital grade MC connectors. Ive never used this stuff before, what do I need to know? Any other special fittings or connectors that ill need? Any special methods that need to be done while installing this stuff? Any more labor needed using hospital grade than regular MC?


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## donselec (May 7, 2011)

i thought hospital grade just had the insulated ground....??


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

Is the facility a hospital or just exam rooms in a doctors office or something similar?

As far as the installation, it is the same as AC with an insulated EGC for redundancy.

Roger


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

MHElectric said:


> Got a job coming up that needs it. Already talked to supply house to get a price on the stuff ($$$!) and hospital grade MC connectors. Ive never used this stuff before, what do I need to know? Any other special fittings or connectors that ill need? Any special methods that need to be done while installing this stuff? Any more labor needed using hospital grade than regular MC?


The last hospital grade mc I worked with had its own insulated ground and a bare redundant bonding wire ( like Bx ) throughout also . That had to be wrapped around the outer jacket and tightened under the connector . I sort of remember a paper wrapping around the conductors too which made stripping it a pain in the ass . This was a few years ago , so I'm sure they've improved upon that . I wasn't buying it , but the boss was crying every time we needed another 1000' , lol !


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Roger said:


> Is the facility a hospital or just exam rooms in a doctors office or something similar?
> 
> As far as the installation, it is the same as AC with an insulated EGC for redundancy.
> 
> Roger


Adult nursing facility.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

They haven't improved on it drumnut....:no: I used about 3500' of it last summer and it had the paper wrapping in it..............just like all AC90 sold here in Canada. I've never heard of hospital grade MC connectors though. We always just bond the box with the bare ground......run the insulated ground to the ground on the receptacle and let the connector bond the armour.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

drumnut08 said:


> The last hospital grade mc I worked with had its own insulated ground and a bare redundant bonding wire ( like Bx ) throughout also . That had to be wrapped around the outer jacket and tightened under the connector . I sort of remember a paper wrapping around the conductors too which made stripping it a pain in the ass . This was a few years ago , so I'm sure they've improved upon that . I wasn't buying it , but the boss was crying every time we needed another 1000' , lol !


That stuff is NOT cheap. I knew it would be, but it still caught me off gaurd when the SH qouted me a price.

Im still unclear if this stuff installs as fast as regular MC or if I need to pad the labor.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

It takes a little extra time with the extra ground wire to deal with. Otherwise it's just MC......no real extra work.


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## MIKEFLASH (Apr 14, 2012)

Yeah he's right we had to wrap the redundant ground around the mc before the connector is installed.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

It's not any harder than regular MC to makeup. 

We use the standard Arlington snap in connectors, strip the sheath off cable, snip bare redundant ground wire and paper filler off flush with sheath. Shove into connector. Done, nothing to it.


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## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

You are actually suppose to just cut the redundant ground off at the box, it shouldn't land anywhere or twist around the cable per the manufactures recommendations, sounds weird I know, but thats how it's suppose to be done


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

MHElectric said:


> That stuff is NOT cheap. I knew it would be, but it still caught me off gaurd when the SH qouted me a price.
> 
> Im still unclear if this stuff installs as fast as regular MC or if I need to pad the labor.


I'd pad the labor a little due to the stripping issues and the extra conductor . Make sure you find out the correct path for that bond wire too . I was told from the manufacturer to bend it back under connector clamp ( this isn't easy because this bond is a full size ) , other guys were bringing it in to the box and grounding the box like Rollie mentioned and then a select few would cut it off altogether , because they didn't know what to do with it , lol ! Pulling it and supporting are all the same as regular mc though .


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## drumnut08 (Sep 23, 2012)

ohiosparky99 said:


> You are actually suppose to just cut the redundant ground off at the box, it shouldn't land anywhere or twist around the cable per the manufactures recommendations, sounds weird I know, but thats how it's suppose to be done


Huh , first I'm hearing this ? Oh well , I know a whole hospital that got done wrong then , lol ! It makes no difference if it ends up under the connector clamp though . It's still making contact with the jacket regardless . It's just an unnecessary step as I see it now .


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## MIKEFLASH (Apr 14, 2012)

I know it said it on the manufacturers label but the inspector still wanted it done anyway. Gotta check with the athj.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Cow said:


> It's not any harder than regular MC to makeup.
> 
> We use the standard Arlington snap in connectors, strip the sheath off cable, snip bare redundant ground wire and paper filler off flush with sheath. Shove into connector. Done, nothing to it.


 

This is how I do it.

Except I use the bare wire to hold the anti-short on.


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## rma1998 (Jun 27, 2010)

MIKEFLASH said:


> I know it said it on the manufacturers label but the inspector still wanted it done anyway. Gotta check with the athj.


I would have him give the code reference on something like that.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Thats the key thing here.........the AHJ. See how they want that bare gorund wire dealt with. I was told by our inspectors to use the method I previously mentioned. Make sure they're happy.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

MHElectric said:


> Adult nursing facility.


 
I just did one and I used Hospital grade MCAP, with the arlington snap in connectors.
Just strip it and and cut off the bond wire and put the green on the receptacle
Does not really take much longer than standard MC


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

Cow said:


> It's not any harder than regular MC to makeup.
> 
> strip the sheath off cable, snip bare redundant ground wire and paper filler off flush with sheath. Shove into connector. Done, nothing to it.


That is all that is needed, this is usually included in the manufacturers instructions.

Now, if amy of the circuits are "Emergency Circuits" the MCAP or HCFC will not be code compliant for these circuits


Roger


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## rma1998 (Jun 27, 2010)

Roger said:


> That is all that is needed, this is usually included in the manufacturers instructions.
> 
> Now, if amy of the circuits are "Emergency Circuits" the MCAP or HCFC will not be code compliant for these circuits
> 
> ...


I haven't heard of that before, do you have a code ref?


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

rma1998 said:


> I haven't heard of that before, do you have a code ref?


517.30(C)(3)

Roger


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Ran some a few weeks ago. I paid around $200.00 per 250' roll at CES. 

Like others have mentioned, there's not much to it. We just cut the paper wrap flush and folded the bond wire back between the jacket and connector, but like Roger said, I don't think that's even necessary.

Oh, and the jacket is green.


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## rma1998 (Jun 27, 2010)

Roger said:


> 517.30(C)(3)
> 
> Roger


So it is allowed, I thought wow, it would be a pain to pipe lights in a patent room.


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

rma1998 said:


> So it is allowed, I thought wow, it would be a pain to pipe lights in a patent room.


Did you read the article section?

Roger


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## rma1998 (Jun 27, 2010)

Yes, did you? You said it could not be used. 

517.30C (3)(c), ok if fished, 

517.30C(3)(D) ok where necessary for flexible connection to equipment. 

I have seen many patient care facility's, none of them had hard pipe to the life safety lighting system.


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

rma1998 said:


> Yes, did you? You said it could not be used.
> 
> 517.30C (3)(c), ok if fished


Correct, but this would not be the case in new construction 



rma1998 said:


> 517.30C(3)(D) ok where necessary for flexible connection to equipment.
> 
> I have seen many patient care facility's, none of them had hard pipe to the life safety lighting system.


And if an inspector was using common sense you are good to go but, the reality is, fixtures do not need a flexible connection and I have seen some call it this way.

In any case, all but the actual whip would still need to be in non-flexible metallic raceways.


Roger


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## rma1998 (Jun 27, 2010)

Roger said:


> Correct, but this would not be the case in new construction
> 
> And if an inspector was using common sense you are good to go but, the reality is, fixtures do not need a flexible connection and I have seen some call it this way.
> 
> ...


I agree with you.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

The stuff I used had a #10 AL bare ground. It wasn't difficult to install but it was almost twice the cost. :jester:

Hmm....steel, grounded boxes screwed to steel studs, screwed together by steel track. Yeah....we need another ground wire.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Hmm....steel, grounded boxes screwed to steel studs, screwed together by steel track. Yeah....we need another ground wire.


You do in a hospital, or do you know more about that then the experts too. :laughing:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Rollie73 said:


> Thats the key thing here.........the AHJ. See how they want that bare gorund wire dealt with. I was told by our inspectors to use the method I previously mentioned. Make sure they're happy.


The AHJ doesn't get to determine what you do with the bare bonding wire. The manufacturer's instructions do. They (usually) say to cut the bare wire off where it emerges from the sheath and then terminate your cable in your fitting, etc etc. Then your cable armor is bonded as required, and you have your insulated wire EGC in the cable still too.

I've seen it backwrapped around the spirals too (in fact I've seen "official" photos and illustrations showing that too) and I can't see how that would hurt.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

BBQ said:


> You do in a hospital, or do you know more about that then the experts too. :laughing:


Like I said, steel, grounded boxes screwed to steel studs, screwed together by steel track. The system is already grounded in 50 different places. It's not rocket science. Your _experts_ are idiots, driven by the machine. 

In it's weakest form, blind obedience is ignorant. In the worst case, it is dangerous.

Fight the power :laughing:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


> Like I said, steel, grounded boxes screwed to steel studs, screwed together by steel track.


 
Thats not always true though.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Awg-Dawg said:


> Thats not always true though.


_Almost_ nothing is *always* true. 


I am talking about typical construction that I see every day.

I never understood why a hospital requires more grounding than any other structure. I mean, if you get hurt, YOU ARE ALREADY AT THE HOSPITAL :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Like I said, steel, grounded boxes screwed to steel studs, screwed together by steel track.


People undressed around conductive equipment, often with open wounds removing the bodies skin restance, literally hooked up to electrical equipment. 

It's not the same as an office building, believe it or not there are good reasons for redundant grounding. 



> The system is already grounded in 50 different places. It's not rocket science. Your _experts_ are idiots, driven by the machine.


When you say stuff like that I bet you sound just like Archie Bunker. :laughing:




> In it's weakest form, blind obedience is ignorant. In the worst case, it is dangerous.


More dangerous is the tradesman that thinks he knows more about things than experts in their field. 

You do relize that during the time between the fault and the breaker opens the potential on the EGC can raise to dangerous levels right?

Oh that's right, you don't believe anything you have not seen or experienced. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

220/221 said:


> I never understood why a hospital requires more grounding than any other structure.


Are you nude laying on steel table leaking fluids at the grocery store?:laughing:


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## Bbsound (Dec 16, 2011)

220/221 said:


> _Almost_ nothing is *always* true.
> 
> 
> I am talking about typical construction that I see every day.
> ...


Yeah, its not like they have a room full of electroinic equipment and lights and heaters and anestheshia machines and blood warmers and ventilators all in one room with cameras and instruments inside a human body, probabl inside the heart or brain, and not to mention the human body is in a weakened state. 
Why does it need more grounding?


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Would you support a code change to quadruple grounding?

If one ground is good and two is better, where is the point of a completely diminished return?



> When you say stuff like that I bet you sound just like Archie Bunker.


Stifle it Badger




> More dangerous is the tradesman that thinks he knows more about things than experts in their field.


There you go again with the _experts_. I consider myself an expert in my field and I know my limitations. In many cases, I know more than designers and engineers. In many cases I know less. Expert is a term that you throw around a lot. Our government is loaded with experts lol.


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## njdvils99 (Mar 18, 2013)

220/221 said:


> Our government is loaded with experts lol.


If that's the case, then most of us are rocket scientists....:laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Use EMT and pull a ground wire, it's much cheaper than HCMC


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Are you nude laying on steel table leaking fluids at the grocery store?:laughing:


 Aaaaand now I gotta go grab a grill fork and give myself a lobotomy to get that out of my brain. Back in a few.


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