# How did you learn to estimate jobs?



## Ubersparky (Apr 26, 2013)

Long story short, I find myself running an Electrical Contracting shop. I am a Master Electrician with 15 years experience. I have been "running work" since 2002. 

The problem I have is, running work and bidding work are two different things. Smallish residential jobs aren't a problem. I spent some time at a very small residential company where I was shown the "by the hole method." I am also very familiar with bidding service work. I have recently been asked to bid some smaller commercial jobs. The few commercial jobs I have bid in the past were combined efforts. Myself, and some very experienced electricians worked together to "guess" the total job costs. 

I don't want to "guess" anymore. Though, those jobs worked out about perfect. I want to be a professional in this area like I am at running my jobs. Are there classes to take? Places to gain the knowledge I need? How did you learn to estimate commercial work?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

use every means at your disposal to gain the expertise you need.

books, articles, classes, and any help you can get from people you know who are good at estimating. IMO learning to do estimates long hand goes a long way towards being able to attack estimates with newer short cut methods. The estimate is the beginning of the job (after contacting a client or getting an invitation to bid) and you can sink or swim based on the quality of the estimate. Larger estimates that require more than one person can offer additional challenges so that nothing is dropped off the estimate, so you need to start with a plan. Knowing your costs is not just getting prices and guessing the labor, but taking the effort while projects are being done and after they are completed to compute the costs of tasks that you are actually doing and update them so you have a real life cost basis that applies to your outfit, that you can use for the next estimates.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Start small. There are books for electrical estimating by units ie connectors, lengths of pipe, installing receptacles. Get one and start modifying it. The stopwatch is your friend here. It takes a half second on my phone to hit start on my stopwatch and another half to hit stop. Mark the crap out of the book until your numbers make sense. Bid high until you are comfortable with your numbers. You can't lose money on a job you don't do.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

still figuring this one out opcorn:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Try the Means cost estimating book and build from there.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

I would take a class, and buy a good program. Excel speadsheets work well, but you have to build it custom, and takes time.


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## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

I took a job as a pm / estimator. When the pressure is on, I learn faster....
Glad I did that, as I have rounded out my electrical skills / knowledge with office and business know-how.


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Geez, these posts show me how much of a trunkslammer I still am.

I never took any classes, seminars or lessons. I should have, it would have saved me alot of grief. All I did was read a construction business book written by a painter, and then jumped into the deep end with both feet. Experience is a great teacher, I wish she wasn't my teacher though. 

I still shoot from the hip, and fly by the seat of my pants.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I learned to bid work by bombing a bid or two. You learn pretty fast how to bid when you learn how _NOT_ to bid a job.


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## sparky250 (Aug 28, 2012)

Im in the exact same spot as you. Done 50+ residential jobs in the last 2 years and have 2 small commercial renovations at a nearby mall.

My approach is to add up all material I can possibly imagine using, including all the fixtures as I am to include them. Then break it down into tasks and guess how many man hours for that task x your hourly rate. And then slap a little bit of money ontop to make sure you will make some profit. 

In my mind the commercial business has more profit more money involved so I dont think we have the same worry as bidding residential on how high we are. Im sure there will be a guy who is $5k higher than I am, and I might be the middle or the lowest. If I am the lowest I get the job and hopefully I did my homework right.

And like MF Dagger said You can't lose money on a job you don't do.

Good luck


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## Ubersparky (Apr 26, 2013)

MF Dagger said:


> Start small. There are books for electrical estimating by units ie connectors, lengths of pipe, installing receptacles. Get one and start modifying it. The stopwatch is your friend here. It takes a half second on my phone to hit start on my stopwatch and another half to hit stop. Mark the crap out of the book until your numbers make sense. Bid high until you are comfortable with your numbers. You can't lose money on a job you don't do.


Thanks for the information.


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## Roadking Classic (Apr 15, 2013)

Start with the service. Break it down by materials and hours. Then go with branch circuits for receptacles then lighting. Start at the panel with length of conduit run with fittings, straps, boxes and whips. Then add wire lengths(Nine CCC per conduit). Trim out and paycheck.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

I was able to give estimates for my previous employer. I had 1 helper and we did small reno's, service work and such. I sent out bids playing with his money until I figured it out. You learn fast what to look for and what to ask. Example, customer calls and wants a bathroom exhaust fan installed and wants to know how much. This depends on plaster/drywall, access from above, type of fan, what is the current venting system? Each task will have these little variables which can drastically change the price.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

......


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## Ubersparky (Apr 26, 2013)

Okay, this is what I have done. I went to my favorite supply house. I had one of their staff do a material take-off for me. I took the prices that they provided, added 60%. This accounts for mark-up, overhead, and some miscellaneous that I may have missed. 

I then visually guesstimated the amount of hours for the whole project. I broke it down by rooms. 

I wasn't totally comfortable with the figure I came up with. I then took all light fixtures, all receptacles, and all data drop. The total, I multiplied by $110.00(not my hourly rate). After turning the dollar figure into and hourly figure, I added it to the previous hours I had figured in for the service and mechanical room. The hours I came up with were almost identical! 

So I now have material + 60% + hours(figured two seperate ways and split in middle) for total job cost. 

What do you all think?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

If you have any decent amount of materials you probably will be high. The big contractors around here pretty much give their gear and fixtures away.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Ubersparky said:


> Okay, this is what I have done. I went to my favorite supply house. I had one of their staff do a material take-off for me. I took the prices that they provided, added 60%. This accounts for mark-up, overhead, and some miscellaneous that I may have missed.
> 
> I then visually guesstimated the amount of hours for the whole project. I broke it down by rooms.
> 
> ...


If you get the job and make your desired profit then your on the right track.


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## Ubersparky (Apr 26, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> If you have any decent amount of materials you probably will be high. The big contractors around here pretty much give their gear and fixtures away.


Just to be clear- I figured in the conduit runs but added no fittings, the mc cable but no fittings, ect, ect, I really think the 60% will help to eliminate the need to go all anal on the material side.

You are probably right though. I called the general and gave him my number over the phone and he didnt freak.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Along with improving your estimating skills, try to improve your" people skills", sales skills, interpersonal relationship skills. Trust me that can really help your sales and really the important thing is selling the job.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Ubersparky said:


> Just to be clear- I figured in the conduit runs but added no fittings, the mc cable but no fittings, ect, ect, I really think the 60% will help to eliminate the need to go all anal on the material side.
> 
> You are probably right though. I called the general and gave him my number over the phone and he didnt freak.


If you have more than a few fittings then just charge out a full box with the markup.

Also keep in mind the large fittings because they cost bucks.


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## Ubersparky (Apr 26, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> If you have more than a few fittings then just charge out a full box with the markup.
> 
> Also keep in mind the large fittings because they cost bucks.


I kept the service numbers seperate and figured them to their entirety. It was the small branch circuits I shortcutted.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

What part of Kansas are you from? I'm familiar with Lawrence, then some small cities in West Kansas , Great Bend, Hayes, and a couple others. Seems like I remember there's a lot of good looking blondes out there.


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## Ubersparky (Apr 26, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> If you get the job and make your desired profit then your on the right track.


Unfortunately, I am one of those guys that learns best by making mistakes.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Ubersparky said:


> Unfortunately, I am one of those guys that learns best by making mistakes.


And I think that is good. Just make sure they are on the high side.


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## Ubersparky (Apr 26, 2013)

Lep said:


> What part of Kansas are you from? I'm familiar with Lawrence, then some small cities in West Kansas , Great Bend, Hayes, and a couple others. Seems like I remember there's a lot of good looking blondes out there.


I am from a small town called Valley Falls. It's about 30 miles north of Topeka. If you've listened to Ron White's standup, then you know there I nothing but potatoes in Kansas.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Ubersparky said:


> I don't want to "guess" anymore. Though, those jobs worked out about perfect. I want to be a professional in this area like I am at running my jobs. Are there classes to take? Places to gain the knowledge I need? How did you learn to estimate commercial work?


Before the internet was popular, my bro and i used to call ourselves_ 'eatin' our shoes electric' _

Now that it is, there's no shortage of avenues one can take on line

~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Ubersparky said:


> I am from a small town called Valley Falls. It's about 30 miles north of Topeka. If you've listened to Ron White's standup, then you know there I nothing but potatoes in Kansas.


I'm from a small town in S Vermont, cows, retirees, farmers and tourists ,a proverbial yankee theme park i think perhaps Jeff Foxworthy drew his material from our sort Uberdude....:thumbsup:

~CS~


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Lep said:


> Along with improving your estimating skills, try to improve your" people skills", sales skills, interpersonal relationship skills. Trust me that can really help your sales and really the important thing is selling the job.


This has nothing to do with a larger quoted job.


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