# Not doing a box offset every time



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Quite often I don't see the need to do box offsets, just put into the connector, push the pipe back and strap it down. Just don't see a good reason to do them in a lot of cases. 

Like in this picture (a bad picture cause the box is kinda far away to see much), I just used the strap to pull the EMT to the wood. 










Questions, comments, concerns, childhood memories? :jester:

Edit: 220/221, this is the type of work your tax money buys :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

We see it with PVC all the time, esp, the smaller sizes. You could just use a standoff strap to avoid an offset. Personally I don't have an issue with it and am not sure there is any code issue but I am sure there is an inspector that would turn it down saying it pulls the pipe out of the connector a bit. :blink:


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

It's just good workmanship. Makes it look like you know what your doing.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I always use box offsets.. why I bought a box offset bender.. (30) seconds done and perfect every time.. 

I have seen many hack jobs where the box offset is too big.. so the guy has to spin the pipe and it fits into the connector.. :no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Quite often I don't see the need to do box offsets, just put into the connector, push the pipe back and strap it down. Just don't see a good reason to do them in a lot of cases.
> 
> Like in this picture (a bad picture cause the box is kinda far away to see much), I just used the strap to pull the EMT to the wood.
> 
> ...



You used a sharpy on your 90's.....:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You used a sharpy on your 90's.....:laughing:


It was either that or use my own blood, the sharpie is more accurate :laughing:


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

A box offset to that single stick back to back would have been bad azz!:thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> It was either that or use my own blood, the sharpie is more accurate :laughing:


Just use your knife skills and blood is not a problem.. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

3xdad said:


> A box offset to that single stick back to back would have been bad ass!:thumbup:


That is where a box offset bender is worth the money.. :thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> That is where a box offset bender is worth the money.. :thumbsup:


It would have been nice to have offset benders back then, although that would have been one more thing to stash on the pick up.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Just use your knife skills and blood is not a problem.. :laughing:


:laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> You used a sharpy on your 90's.....:laughing:



He also failed to used the same fittings and missed the plywood mounting area as the existing EMT.





Jlarson said:


> It would have been nice to have offset benders back then, although that would have been one more thing to stash on the pick up.


Any pipetrician can do an offset with a hand bender. I don't carry my 1810 & 1811 on the truck, but they always end up on commercial jobs.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> ...You could just use a standoff strap to avoid an offset. Personally I don't have an issue with it and am not sure there is any code issue but I am sure there is an inspector that would turn it down saying it pulls the pipe out of the connector a bit. :blink:


I only use minis for their obvious hanging uses and on walls in sanitary areas or fab shops, the 1 holes are quicker. 

I was technically the AHJ on that job so I found no issue with it either


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I always use box offsets.. why I bought a box offset bender.. (30) seconds done and perfect every time..


No field electrician should ever need a offset bender, total waste of money, space and time.

Those are good for the unqualified or the factory assembly line worker.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I usually make box offsets but in some locations ........ maybe not.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Violation of 110.12


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Violation of 110.12


No such thing.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

480sparky said:


> He also failed to used the same fittings and missed the plywood mounting area as the existing EMT.


Not plywood, cut up highway sign :laughing:, and the enclosure below it was in my way. 




480sparky said:


> Any pipetrician can do an offset with a hand bender. .


That would have been just one of many offsets that day, I might have done them had I had an offset bender, maybe.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> No field electrician should ever need a offset bender, total waste of money, space and time.
> 
> Those are good for the unqualified or the factory assembly line worker.



Cell phones are a total waste of time, money and space as well.

They are only good for numbskulls who are too lazy to get in their truck and drive around until they find a pay phone.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> No such thing.


did it get removed in the 2011 ?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> No field electrician should ever need a offset bender, total waste of money, space and time.
> 
> Those are good for the unqualified or the factory assembly line worker.


Did you ever try using one??


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I am ok with the no offset thing when it will be covered. If it's surface mounted and visible you need to add the offset. 30 seconds.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> did it get removed in the 2011 ?


Nope it is still there.

But the NFPA feels both words 'Neat' and 'Workmanlike' are vague and unenforceable/

They have a long list of words like that and they can be found in the 'NFPAs manual of style.

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/pdf/mos1-3.pdf


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

He had to hurry and get out of there before the wild fires got there.:001_huh:
Hey Jlarson, you anywhere near those fires?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/pdf/mos1-3.pdf


Table 2.2.2.3 if that's the 04 MOS


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Violation of 110.12



He does not go by the NEC.,


He goes by the DSEC....:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Little-Lectric said:


> Hey Jlarson, you anywhere near those fires?


Not right now, I'm sitting in the office in Phoenix.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> No field electrician should ever need a offset bender, total waste of money, space and time.
> 
> Those are good for the unqualified or the factory assembly line worker.


 Maybefor one bend but if you have a project that needs 1000 then it makes bends fast and every one the same.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Did you ever try using one??


Yes, I know what they are and how they work. They had a 1/2" and 3/4" versions at the maintenance department where my dad worked. Perfect to help the unskilled run EMT.:thumbsup:



For a field electrician they are a total waste of time, space and money. But I know you will never agree because that would be admitting you wasted your money. 

I will bet you I can make a nice box offset in 1/2" EMT _almost_ as fast as you can with your tool and mine will fit perfect while yours may have to be rolled to fit the box depending on the box you are using.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

From the same job, this PVC is mine too. 










And there is no violation there.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Nope it is still there.
> 
> But the NFPA feels both words 'Neat' and 'Workmanlike' are vague and unenforceable/
> 
> ...


 It is still in the code and can be enforced by the AHJ. It is subject to the AHJ but it doesn'y mean it can be ignored after all it has been in the code as worded for half a century.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

B4T is still trying to justify the expense of that offset bender. We had this discussion a year ago on this subject.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> From the same job, this PVC is mine too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang no LB on that pipe coming out the wall


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Maybefor one bend but if you have a project that needs 1000 then it makes bends fast and every one the same.


If you are making a 1000 in one spot, you are right.

If you have to drag it around the job with you not a chance and the fact that they are 'all the same' is only helpful if that dimension matches the KOs on the boxes.:laughing:

Most of the four squares we use place the connector very close to the back so those pre-made offsets would be to big. 

But hell, if you like to drag more crap around with you by all means have fun. :thumbsup:

I work for companies that are not afraid to buy tools, we have all kinds of specialty tools like wiremold cutters, wire pushers, whatever but this tool is one we don't bother with.:no:

A skilled electrician can bend offsets in small EMT quickly, accurately and sized properly. If they can't maybe they should find other work. 

Now if they made one of these for say 4" RMC that would be cool. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Loose Neutral said:


> B4T is still trying to justify the expense of that offset bender. We had this discussion a year ago on this subject.


I know .......... :jester:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> From the same job, this PVC is mine too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that is schedule 40 I would give you a red tag.

If that is 80 I would pass it with a look of disgust. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> ........... mine will fit perfect while yours may have to be rolled to fit the box depending on the box you are using.


Perhaps you can explain how an offset done by a hand bender and and offset done by an offset bender need to be installed differently.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> If that is schedule 40 I would give you a red tag.
> 
> If that is 80 I would pass it with a look of disgust. :laughing:


EI's inspect secondary containment for chlorine lines? :laughing:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

I worked a shop years ago that owned an offset bender it gathered dust most of the time. Every so often an apprentice would fabricate offsets for jobs.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

needs an expansion fitting looks like the 90 is almost pulled out


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> It is still in the code and can be enforced by the AHJ. It is subject to the AHJ but it doesn'y mean it can be ignored after all it has been in the code as worded for half a century.


The AHJ can try to enforce it.

The EC could fight it and if they had a mind too could bring it to court and the EC would win.

You cannot make 'opinion' law. One persons 'Neat and Workmanlike' is another persons disaster.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Y'all are trying to drive me to drink.

Not a fan of putting stress at the fittings. The photo of the EMT, no problem. But I'd be very surprised if that PVC didn't eventually break apart.

And just to confuse things more, I'm all for removing 110.12 from the NEC. :whistling2:

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> Every so often an apprentice would fabricate offsets for jobs.


That I can see, we sometimes do that with PVC.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I will bet you I can make a nice box offset in 1/2" EMT _almost_ as fast as you can with your tool and mine will fit perfect while yours may have to be rolled to fit the box depending on the box you are using.


I wish you lived closer.. it would make my day to take money from you.. BUT you were smart to say _almost_ :laughing:

These are designed for standard box KO locations.. but you knew that already..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> Y'all are trying to drive me to drink.


LOL




> But I'd be very surprised if that PVC didn't eventually break apart.


Well, I guess it will not be hit by anyone mowing the lawn or be broken by frost / thaw cycles. 


> And just to confuse things more, I'm all for removing 110.12 from the NEC.


Damn, now I am confused. :laughing:


I am for that as well, but I am also for customers making their own 'quality specifications' for contractors to follow.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> But I'd be very surprised if that PVC didn't eventually break apart.


It's not even glued 

the other end of that PVC


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> I wish you lived closer.. it would make my day to take money from you.. BUT you were smart to say _almost_ :laughing:


I am fast, but yeah if we had to both do 100 offests you would be done long before me.

I know that.



> These are designed for standard box KO locations.. but you knew that already..


What is a standard KO location?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> What is a standard KO location?


Basic 1900 box has the KO about 1" off the back of the box..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I just looked we still don't have any offset benders 3 years later, and I really don't care to waste my money on one anymore.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> Basic 1900 box has the KO about 1" off the back of the box..


I assume you are talking 1" to center?

The '1900' boxes we use are made for 1/2 and 3/4 and they place the connector very close to the back of the box, the offset bended would make the offset too deep for us. and it would either hold the box off the wall or we would have to roll the offset which looks like dung.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

My opinion: Box offset is a good idea for someone doing endless offsets like an assembly line.

I never tried one. I always thought it was for guys, who weren't good at bending. One shop, I worked at, that thing just sat on a shelf gathering dust.

I've done like the OP, for hidden locations above a cieling. Offsets look more professional though.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The AHJ can try to enforce it.
> 
> The EC could fight it and if they had a mind too could bring it to court and the EC would win.
> 
> You cannot make 'opinion' law. One persons 'Neat and Workmanlike' is another persons disaster.


 you should say "maybe win". nothing is a slam dunk in the courts.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> you should say "maybe win". nothing is a slam dunk in the courts.


Yeah true to some extent ..........

And the reality is no EC is going to take it to court unless huge money is involved.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> And the reality is no EC is going to take it to court unless huge money is involved.


Suing that government while working for the government, could have been interesting :laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Never tried one of those offset benders. If it works anything like those crappy "thread rod cutters" you can keep it.

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> Never tried one of those offset benders. If it works anything like those crappy "thread rod cutters" you can keep it.
> 
> -John


The one I used worked well, it did exactly what it was supposed to.

But they are not cheap and take up space,


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The one I used worked well, it did exactly what it was supposed to.
> 
> But they are not cheap and take up space,


 I bought one on EBAY several years back. It's the older model than the one pictured and it was $90+ dollars. No regrets.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Darn it...I'm going to have to side with B4T on this one. :laughing: The box offset maker is great. It paid for itself on the first job I used it on.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Darn it...I'm going to have to side with B4T on this one. :laughing: The box offset maker is great. It paid for itself on the first job I used it on.


How is Harry ever going to believe that you can run pipe when you admit you can't run pipe? :laughing::laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Peter D said:


> ...The box offset maker is great. It paid for itself on the first job I used it on.


 What was the job? I can't see that thing saving any significant labor without having to do dozens of offsets.

-John


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> It was either that or use my own blood, the sharpie is more accurate :laughing:


 how about just using you thumb instead of marking. one less step to take. Thumb on the pipe to the arrow and bend....done!


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> How is Harry ever going to believe that you can run pipe when you admit you can't run pipe? :laughing::laughing:


:furious::furious:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Big John said:


> What was the job? I can't see that thing saving any significant labor without having to do dozens of offsets.
> 
> -John


Fire alarm system, all 1/2" EMT surface mounted in a small apartment building. I don't have an exact count but it was easily dozens of box offsets.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Regarding the issue of box offsets, if it's above a ceiling or going to be covered I can easily over look the lack of them. If it's a lot of exposed, surface mount work, not using them is amateur grade hack work.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> How is Harry ever going to believe that you can run pipe when you admit you can't run pipe? :laughing::laughing:


 
OMG!!:whistling2::laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm actually doing an EMT job right now. No box offset maker involved since I don't own a 3/4" one. I'll post pics so I can finally shut Harry up for good.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Perhaps you can explain how an offset done by a hand bender and and offset done by an offset bender need to be installed differently.


 Too hard to use an offset bender when you've already put one or two bends on a 10 foot length. you'd have to cut a chunk off the 10 foot length off and then recouple it after you use the offset bender, that sucks. I used them maybe twice and nevern again.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I'll post pics so I can finally shut Harry up for good.


I will buy you a new bible if you get Harry to STFU. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> I will buy you a new bible if you get Harry to STFU. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


:laughing:

While you're at it, get me a 2011 NEC as well. :thumbup:


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

BBQ said:


> I assume you are talking 1" to center?
> 
> The '1900' boxes we use are made for 1/2 and 3/4 and they place the connector very close to the back of the box, the offset bended would make the offset too deep for us. and it would either hold the box off the wall or we would have to roll the offset which looks like dung.


I don't have one, because, well, I think it would be a waste
of money and another thing to lug around, but I looked
at them, and from the instructions:
_The locations of knockouts in metal boxes vary. It may
be necessary to adjust the offset to match the knockout.
This tool can achieve a maximum offset of 0.56" (9/16)
with full handle actuation. For a smaller offset, reduce
the amount of handle actuation._

So I agree with your basic point, but it looks like it's
very easy to make a smaller offset, and not have to roll it
by just moving the lever to a different angle, which
would be easy to pre-mark on the tool.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I'm actually doing an EMT job right now. No box offset maker involved since I don't own a 3/4" one. I'll post pics so I can finally shut Harry up for good.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> :laughing:
> 
> While you're at it, get me a 2011 NEC as well. :thumbup:


Make sure he gets you the Hand book..:thumbup::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> :thumbup::thumbup:


I even give you permission to call me a hack when I post the pics. :yes:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> I even give you permission to call me a hack when I post the pics. :yes:


Hey im trying to behave...:whistling2::laughing:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I always do a box offset. Less strain on the box, connector and strap. It becomes second nature to bend them by hand. 
I have in the past used the offset bender on bigger jobs and it does save time. One fire alarm job was 500 rooms and each was 10' center to center. So the offset bender worked great. 
And yes all the writing on the TW was the same way. It gave the painters something to read.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Wirenuting said:


> I have in the past used the offset bender on bigger jobs and it does save time.


Freaking government workers ...........:laughing:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Freaking government workers ...........:laughing:


I know it's an oxy-moron...
A government employee trying to save time & $$.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Wirenuting said:


> I know it's an oxy-moron...
> A government employee trying to save time & $$.


Be carefull you could get fired for that.:laughing:


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

I think the EMT is okay with no offset considering where it is. Although myself, I use offsets wherever conduit is exposed.

The PVC on the other hand is downright blatant hackery to the fullest. 

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Ah this is so much fun. :laughing:

Sent from my Droid


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Ah this is so much fun. :laughing:


 Desert Sparky _or_ Desert Troll.... 

:whistling2::jester:

-John


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I'm actually doing an EMT job right now. No box offset maker involved since I don't own a 3/4" one. I'll post pics so I can finally shut Harry up for good.


I have the 1/2" and 3/4" mounted on a piece of 2X6 with a handle in the middle for easy transport..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> :laughing:
> 
> While you're at it, get me a 2011 NEC as well. :thumbup:


I got both the hardcover NECH and the soft cover MA amendment NEC for free ......... it is nice to have friends. :thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Big John said:


> Desert Sparky _or_ Desert Troll....


I needed something to make my boring paperwork filled morning more fun, pointing out the pointlessness behind stuff like box offsets is perfect. :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Generally, box offsets are a complete waste of time. Any punk who calls that hack work is...well, a punk.

NO ONE except an electrician will ever look at it.

If I have to offset more than 1/2" or so, I will bend one.

On an exposed switch box in some kind of high end area, I will occasionally use them. Any normal job goes without. I have a couple of offset tools but have never used them. I'm not dragging a tool like that aound with me unless I'm doing a crapload of offsets.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Any hack that dosen't own a hand brender and wont take the few seconds it takes to bend a box offset is a punk...

I see exsposed work and no box offsets it just screams hack ,lazy,cheap....

Make it look like something you would be proud to say you installed.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Generally, box offsets are a complete waste of time.


If it's down at eye level in a nice setting I'll offset, up in the rafters of a pump room :no:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> Make it look like something *you *would be proud to say you installed.


 
I do and that's my point. 

I am proud, or at least satisfied with most of my work.

Since *you* are not my customer, I won't bend a BO.


I did some resi garage conduit and the HO's brother was in towm. He was a union guy from the midwest somewhere so the garage boxes got BO's :laughing:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)




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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

retiredsparktech said:


> I bought one on EBAY several years back. It's the older model than the one pictured and it was $90+ dollars. No regrets.


I paid $5 for mine at an auction because no one else knew what the he11 it was. :whistling2:


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

May I ask a quick question without offending anyone? After reading this entire thread, I am frickin' lost. Some act like it's a nack to bend a small underarm box offset, and the 25-30 seconds it takes to do it right every time.

SERIOUSLY??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

On a wide open floor? REALLY?:blink:


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

76nemo said:


> May I ask a quick question without offending anyone? After reading this entire thread, I am frickin' lost. Some act like it's a nack to bend a small underarm box offset, and the 25-30 seconds it takes to do it right every time.
> 
> SERIOUSLY??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> 
> On a wide open floor? REALLY?:blink:


 Can I ask a quick question? What was your question?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

This is more of a personal choice kind of thing that we can go from hack to who cares..

What ever floats your boat is all that matters.. :thumbsup:


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> Can I ask a quick question? What was your question?


 
My question is...."Is this a serious debate"?

A simple flippin' box offset? It doesn't take five years in the field and thousands of hours OJT to offset straight into a box of any sort,...........does it?

No harm B4T, but a special tool for that? Okay, maybe for prefab for hundreds, but can't you turn your bender upside down and roll an offset the same everytime?


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Exposed or concealed. It's all treated the same.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

76nemo said:


> My question is...."Is this a serious debate"?
> 
> A simple flippin' box offset? It doesn't take five years in the field and thousands of hours OJT to offset straight into a box of any sort,...........does it?
> 
> No harm B4T, but a special tool for that? Okay, maybe for prefab for hundreds, but can't you turn your bender upside down and roll an offset the same everytime?


I've had my bender for over (25) years and it has paid for itself many times over..

It comes in handy most when you have a couple of bends and a box offset is the last bend you make..

Look at the OP pic without a offset and that is a prime example of where the bender earns it's keep..


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

B4T said:


> I've had my bender for over (25) years and it has paid for itself many times over..
> 
> It comes in handy most when you have a couple of bends and a box offset is the last bend you make..
> 
> Look at the OP pic without a offset and that is a prime example of where the bender earns it's keep..


 

Let's not drag Larson's work into it. That's his site, he's the one looking at it. I'm not about to call anyone hack, and there's a number of times I didn't offset either, but it just sounds to me as if it might be a nuisance to some if they foul it up. Now to slightly disagree with you, who cares if you over compensate and have to roll one way or another if it's your first bend, as long as you can line it up correctly for the next bend, at least it still hugs the wood.


As for your tool and lots of offsets only being 160lbs, my armpits might like your tool after a long days work if I'm just in a t-shirt, but 10-20:no:
I DO like the fact you like them perfect everytime, that is craftsmanship, I just don't see why anyone can't do that by flipping the bender upside 
down and bending underarm.


To each their own I guess


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Let's not drag Larson's work into it. That's his site, he's the one looking at it. I'm not about to call anyone hack, and there's a number of times I didn't offset either, but it just sounds to me as if it might be a nuisance to some if they foul it up. Now to slightly disagree with you, who cares if you over compensate and have to roll one way or another if it's your first bend, as long as you can line it up correctly for the next bend, at least it still hugs the wood.
> 
> 
> As for your tool and lots of offsets only being 160lbs, my armpits might like your tool after a long days work if I'm just in a t-shirt, but 10-20:no:
> ...


I'm not dragging his work into the debate.. just using his pipe as an example..

There have been times I didn't have the offset bender on the job.. I made my 90's perfect..

Then I went to bend my box offset and had it going the wrong way.. :furious::furious:

It is easy to get mixed up what direction to hold the pipe if you don't run conduit everyday..


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I paid $5 for mine at an auction because no one else knew what the he11 it was. :whistling2:


We paid $17,093.72 for our 1/2" offset bender. And that was with the gov discount. LoL
It cost so much we had to return those solid gold toilet seats. 


But I will agree that there are alot of times a BO isn't needed. It looks nice when the TW lays nicely to the surface. But there is always a difference between hidden work & "show pipe". 
I'm glad I don't install cable. I'm to OCS and would have it nice and flat all the time. 

Any style that works is the correct way of doing things IMO. As long as the ground is to the right & trim screws are vertical.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The AHJ can try to enforce it.
> 
> The EC could fight it and if they had a mind too could bring it to court and the EC would win.
> 
> You cannot make 'opinion' law. One persons 'Neat and Workmanlike' is another persons disaster.


Perhaps, but good workmanship, according to the commentary to 110.12 (NEC 2011) refers to the ANSI/NECA 1-2010 standard Good Workmanship in Electrical Construction.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

janagyjr said:


> Perhaps, but good workmanship, according to the commentary to 110.12 (NEC 2011) refers to the ANSI/NECA 1-2010 standard Good Workmanship in Electrical Construction.


That is no more than a suggestion and workmanship is still an opinion not a clearly definable term.

Like I said, I am all for customer specifications and requirements for 'quality' and 'workmanship' but that has no place in a safety code which is what the NEC is.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

As much as I'd like to, I cannot disagree with that.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Let's not drag Larson's work into it.


Naw, go ahead and drag, I'm posting stuff that goes against the grain just to start debate and point out stuff like the fact 110.12 is bogus.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Naw, go ahead and drag, I'm posting stuff that goes against the grain just to start debate and point out stuff like the fact 110.12 is bogus.



And here I thought you were going to have a hissy fit and run away crying. :no::no::no:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> And here I thought you were going to have a hissy fit and run away crying. :no::no::no:


:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## cal1947 (Nov 14, 2009)

*tofer*

always use pencil on pipe


HARRY304E said:


> You used a sharpy on your 90's.....:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

cal1947 said:


> always use pencil on pipe


Only time I use anything besides sharpie on pipe it when I'm doing black iron or ductile iron process pipe then I usually use white chalk. It's EMT, not art in my book, who cares if there's layout lines on it, certainly not me.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

I say find the simplest, most elementary, apprentice like thread and stretch it out over 26 pages. These obviously attracts the attention of a truly sofisticated group of highly skilled tradesman.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Only time I use anything besides sharpie on pipe it when I'm doing black iron or ductile iron process pipe then I usually use white chalk. It's EMT, not art in my book, who cares if there's layout lines on it, certainly not me.


The EMT comes with stickers and printing on it, in this area we sometimes get 'inch marked' EMT, I could never understand why a sharpie mark gets folks upset.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> The EMT comes with stickers and printing on it, in this area we sometimes get 'inch marked' EMT, I could never understand why a sharpie mark gets folks upset.


Because many electricians seem to think we are installing art work that is to be admired like a rare painting. :no:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> The EMT comes with stickers and printing on it, in this area we sometimes get 'inch marked' EMT, I could never understand why a sharpie mark gets folks upset.


It that the dull gray EMT that has blue lettering and stripes on it??

Only place where you buy EMT that has stickers is the shiny EMT that HD sells..

The stuff is garbage and kinks easily when bending a 90.. it ripples.. :blink::blink:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> It that the dull gray EMT that has blue lettering and stripes on it??


Yes



> Only place where you buy EMT that has stickers is the shiny EMT that HD sells..


You need to get out more. :jester:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

All-Circuits said:


> I say find the simplest, most elementary, apprentice like thread and stretch it out over 26 pages. These obviously attracts the attention of a truly sofisticated group of highly skilled tradesman.


I could post threads about RF modem programming, industrial network t-shooting, analog loop design or something else along those lines if you really want.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> I could post threads about RF modem programming, industrial network t-shooting, analog loop design or something else along those lines if you really want.


 lets talk about din rail mounted PLC technologies.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

All-Circuits said:


> lets talk about din rail mounted PLC technologies.


What's there to know, they clip onto a metal rail standardized by the German standards organization that has a crazy name abbreviated as, DIN :laughing:


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

Jlarson said:


> What's there to know, they clip onto a metal rail standardized by the German standards organization that has a crazy name abbreviated as, DIN :laughing:


 Was the first thing that came to mind, namely because there's an advertisment on the back of my new edition of EC&M about them.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> What's there to know, they clip onto a metal rail standardized by the German standards organization that has a crazy name abbreviated as, DIN :laughing:



It makes perfect sense.......... for someone who speaks Deutsch. :whistling2:

_Deutsches Institut für Normung eV._


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I took me a second to even remember Deutsch = German, so yeah I don't speak it :laughing:


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> From the same job, this PVC is mine too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many 90's in that run of pvc?:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Ima Hack said:


> How many 90's in that run of pvc?:laughing:


360 degrees worth


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> 360 degrees worth


How many outside of the photo?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Ima Hack said:


> How many outside of the photo?


Look here 

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/not-doing-box-offset-every-time-25000/#post465750


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

480sparky said:


> I paid $5 for mine at an auction because no one else knew what the he11 it was. :whistling2:


 We all get a bargain now and then. I picked up a porta-band for $30.00 at a garage sale. The old guy that owned it went into a nursing home and his nieces were selling his tools.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Quite often I don't see the need to do box offsets, just put into the connector, push the pipe back and strap it down. Just don't see a good reason to do them in a lot of cases.
> 
> Like in this picture (a bad picture cause the box is kinda far away to see much), I just used the strap to pull the EMT to the wood.
> 
> ...


Looks mechanically sound to me.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

That new 1/2 EMT is already standing off the wall because of the coupling. 

Are some of you guys going to make a box offset where it terminates?


And....is the PVC in the background, coming from the JB yours too? 

Kick some dirt on that schit :laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> And....is the PVC in the background, coming from the JB yours too?
> 
> Kick some dirt on that schit :laughing:


No, that's a well company work, and it's actually sealtight. I just tapped into the EMT feeding that jbox, rewired the flow switch, added an outlet inside and ran the 3/4 PVC for the chlorination line and put the pump in and hooked up the chlorine.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

*Offsets- Good topic*



Jlarson said:


> I needed something to make my boring paperwork filled morning more fun, pointing out the pointlessness behind stuff like box offsets is perfect. :laughing:


*You saw me having too much fun yesterday*



Jlarson said:


> :laughing::thumbup::laughing:





Jlarson said:


> Only time I use anything besides sharpie on pipe it when I'm doing black iron or ductile iron process pipe then I usually use white chalk. It's EMT, not art in my book, who cares if there's layout lines on it, certainly not me.


:thumbsup: *I'm with you*



Jlarson said:


> I could post threads about RF modem programming, industrial network t-shooting, analog loop design or something else along those lines if you really want.


*I say do it, and lose 75% of the critics ! I think it would be pretty cool, to see the things you get to work with.*


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

B4T said:


> That is where a box offset bender is worth the money.. :thumbsup:


 
What's the bran and model of that offset bender? Info, please!:thumbsup:


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## The Motts (Sep 23, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> What's the bran and model of that offset bender? Info, please!:thumbsup:


Greenlee 1810 for 1/2" conduit.
Greenlee 1811 for 3/4" conduit.

Current Tools 705 for 1/2" conduit.
Current Tools 706 for 3/4" conduit.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I don't do box offsets for concealed work, but for exposed work, I always do. I can't bring myself to not do a box offset for exposed work. Seems "wrong" to me.


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## eutecticalloy (Dec 12, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Quite often I don't see the need to do box offsets, just put into the connector, push the pipe back and strap it down. Just don't see a good reason to do them in a lot of cases.
> 
> Like in this picture (a bad picture cause the box is kinda far away to see much), I just used the strap to pull the EMT to the wood.
> 
> ...


Why are you using compression couplings indoors? I mean a set screw connector is alot cheaper and easier to install. If it's a damp location your J-box is definitely not rated for wet or damp locations.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

eutecticalloy said:


> Why are you using compression couplings indoors? I mean a set screw connector is alot cheaper and easier to install. If it's a damp location your J-box is definitely not rated for wet or damp locations.


I might be able to answer for him. I think he's mostly a service guy, so only carrying one type of fitting on the truck probably makes good sense.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I guess that's what was on the truck that day. 


Currently I carry steel raintight and steel set screw on the truck.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> Only time I use anything besides sharpie on pipe it when I'm doing black iron or ductile iron process pipe then I usually use white chalk. It's EMT, not art in my book, who cares if there's layout lines on it, certainly not me.


I use a grease pencil on everything except black iron pipe. Then I use a welders soap stick.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I have been burning up my pre-raintight compression stuff inside.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Worked with a millwright we always kept something going between us. I called him over to show him a 480 volt receptacle that I had just mounted . 
I told him that the offset between the wall and the hub was the difference between a real electrician and someone that just does electrical work. 
LC


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

It has been said before and it is true, electricians are a strange group. :laughing:


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