# 2008 GFCI in kitchen, bat, and garage?



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I rarely use GFI breakers. Put a GFI recep near where the protection is needed. If it trips, you don't have to go far to reset it.

Except for rewires to allow me to install grounded receps on ungrounded circuits.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> We will be adopting the 2008 in a month or so. My question is: How many of you are installing GFCI breakers for those circuits requiring total GFCI protection, how many are using GFCI receptacles?


GFCI breakers for hot tubs and the like, receptacles for kitchens, baths, outside, garages, etc.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> We will be adopting the 2008 in a month or so. My question is: How many of you are installing GFCI breakers for those circuits requiring total GFCI protection, how many are using GFCI receptacles?


Also, generally speaking, GFCI protection is for the receptacles, not the circuit.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Minuteman said:


> We will be adopting the 2008 in a month or so. My question is: How many of you that are in the 2008 are installing GFCI breakers for those circuits requiring total GFCI protection, how many are using GFCI receptacles?


I am unsure why you are relating this to the 2008 code. Is there something in there that you think changes this scenario.


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> Also, generally speaking, GFCI protection is for the receptacles, not the circuit.


I know, but if you install a GFCI breaker...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricista said:


> I am unsure why you are relating this to the 2008 code. Is there something in there that you think changes this scenario.


 
Fewer exceptions to GFI protection requirements. Therefore, more GFI protection.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> We will be adopting the 2008 in a month or so. My question is: How many of you that are in the 2008 are installing GFCI breakers for those circuits requiring total GFCI protection, how many are using GFCI receptacles?


How do you do it under the present NEC adopted?

Is there any reason to change the way you do it?


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

In layman's terms. For 120 volt 15/20 amp, GFCI for the whole kitchen, bath, and garage. Everything else is AFCI.


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> How do you do it under the present NEC adopted?
> 
> Is there any reason to change the way you do it?


We are in the 2002. So, we don't GFCI the d/d, micro, fridge, GDO, etc.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Minuteman said:


> In layman's terms. For 120 volt 15/20 amp, GFCI for the whole kitchen, bath, and garage. Everything else is AFCI.


GFI the *whole *kitchen? Why? You got a relative that works at Leviton or P&S?


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Minuteman said:


> We are in the 2002. So, we don't GFCI the d/d, micro, fridge, GDO, etc.


You don't have to GFCI the microwave- built in or refrige or dw. What's d/d


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

electricista said:


> You don't have to GFCI the microwave- built in or refrige or dw. What's d/d


Dishwasher - disposeall (I assume)


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

JohnJ0906 said:


> Dishwasher - disposeall (I assume)


Thanks


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

There are no changes in 210.8(A)(6) between the '02 and the '08.

GFCI protection only required for receptacles serving the kitchen countertop .


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricista said:


> ..What's d/d


dishwasher/disposal.



JohnJ0906 said:


> There are no changes in 210.8(A)(6) between the '02 and the '08.
> 
> GFCI protection only required for receptacles serving the kitchen countertop .


But the original topic is for _all_ GFI protection, not just kitchens.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> But the original topic is for _all_ GFI protection, not just kitchens.


Sorry, should have used a quote - it was a response to this post -


> We are in the 2002. So, we don't GFCI the d/d, micro, fridge, GDO, etc


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

Ummm? I really gotta lay off the crack pipe. :sailor:

I went through the '08 CEU's over a year ago, and we have an apprentice that brought the topic up yesterday. Somehow, he got me thinking it was the whole enchilada.

Just read it, and the only change I see is in *210.8 (B) Other Than Dwelling Units.*

My bad.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Minuteman said:


> Just read it, and the only change I see is in *210.8 (B) Other Than Dwelling Units.*
> 
> My bad.


Now that is an issue. You would not want a GFCI Recep. behind the refrig. in a commercial kitchen. In those case a GFCI breaker would be handy or a dead front gfci in a more accessible location. Counters however could still use the GFCI recep.


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

The Dishwasher/Disposal (d/d) we put on a single 20 amp circuit.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

*garage door gfci*

We have started installing GFI breakers for the garage door receptacles, because no one wants to get a ladder out to reset that one. And maybe it will trip with the vehicle in the garage. Way more expensive though. We use a lot of SD QO stuff and I know the manufacturers are loving this code change.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Nobody mentioned a gfi is around 8 bucks a gfi breaker is closer to 30, I use Say, two in the kitchen one in the bathroom one in the garage and for you midwest guys one in the basement. That extra money ads up quick.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> We have started installing GFI breakers for the garage door receptacles, because no one wants to get a ladder out to reset that one. And maybe it will trip with the vehicle in the garage. Way more expensive though. We use a lot of SD QO stuff and I know the manufacturers are loving this code change.



The garage door does not need to be gfi protected, use a single receptical save some money.


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## jgarnett (Jan 25, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> The garage door does not need to be gfi protected, use a single receptical save some money.


08 Code. All receptacles have to be GFI Protected. 
Even Opener receptacle


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## jgarnett (Jan 25, 2009)

All receptacles In GARAGE


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Tamper resistant receptacles (leviton) cost me almost $12.00 and a single pole 15 & 20 amp QO gfi breaker cost me more than $77.00. Horrible.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> We have started installing GFI breakers for the garage door receptacles, because no one wants to get a ladder out to reset that one. And maybe it will trip with the vehicle in the garage. /quote]
> 
> Thats why there are those red cords attached to the trolley on residential garage door openers - power failure. pull the cord it disengages the opener and lift the door by hand.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> Thats why there are those red cords attached to the trolley on residential garage door openers - power failure. pull the cord it disengages the opener and lift the door by hand.


I didn't know those cords reset GFIs..


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## Minuteman (Dec 29, 2007)

I can just imagine. Some politician or bureaucrat in a pouring rain, dives up to his garage in his Escalade, Hummer, or Navigator. Clicks the GDO remote, and nothing happens. No house key, only his remote. 

Click, Click, Click. 

Don't you just hate GFCI nuisance trips?


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Minuteman said:


> Don't you just hate GFCI nuisance trips?


Not sure I ever had one. Ever trip I had usually had something wrong. I have a refrigerator in my basement on GFCI for 5 years now,, Who knows-- no problems yet..


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> We have started installing GFI breakers for the garage door receptacles, because no one wants to get a ladder out to reset that one. And maybe it will trip with the vehicle in the garage. Way more expensive though. We use a lot of SD QO stuff and I know the manufacturers are loving this code change.


You could just wire the GFI on the wall in a convenient spot and downstream the GDO. Way simpler than a ladder.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

This discussion has brought something else to mind. How many garage door (residential) openers do you guys put on one 20amp circuit? We have been in the practice for years now of limiting that to two. Don't remember why we did that now. How may amps does an opener draw? What code article applies here? 430-53?


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## sherman (Sep 29, 2008)

It is not so much the gfci part that will be cost prohibitive it is the TR part that will crank up the price even more. 
TR gfci receptacles are wicked expensive so just putting in TR gfci receptacles will be cost prohibitive.
I will have to rethink this when I am actually forced to comply. I havent had a whole new house under 08 code yet.
Just renovations and additions. Good question.


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