# Forced into the Union?



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Yeah, sounds like you guys got successfully salted.

Hell, _I'd _vote Yes.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Those guys should leave your shop and go work for a Union shop if that is what they want..

It royalty sucks for them to stick their nose into another man's business..


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

B4T said:


> Those guys should leave your shop and go work for a Union shop if that is what they want..
> 
> It royalty sucks for them to stick their nose into another man's business..


Hey man, that capitalism at it's best.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Voltech said:


> We are an open shop and have been growing everyday. Today I found out about 10 or 12 of our 20 guys are going to meet at the union hall to try and force my boss into%


Most transitions are scary. All you have to do is to go in to work and give a good day's work. If you are not pro union just speak your piece and keep on working. If it happens around you just accept it. There is nothing wrong with having someone looking out for your interests all the while you are doing a good days work.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Hey man, that capitalism at it's best.


More like Communism if you ask me.. :no:


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

Voltech said:


> We are an open shop and have been growing everyday. Today I found out about 10 or 12 of our 20 guys are going to meet at the union hall to try and force my boss into%


:thumbup::thumbup: This makes me happy :thumbup::thumbup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Voltech said:


> We are an open shop and have been growing everyday. Today I found out about 10 or 12 of our 20 guys are going to meet at the union hall to try and force my boss into%


I suppose that's their right, as much as it is the owners right to take one of several courses of action that can leave all of those guys in the unemployment line. It will be interesting to learn how this hashes out in the next few months.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> There is nothing wrong with having someone looking out for your interests all the while you are doing a good days work.


BS.. the owner of the company is the one looking out for your interests by giving you a steady job..

If you don't like the environment.. feel free to leave..

Let the owner decide how he wants to run HIS business..


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Alot of my post was cut off somehow or removed.....this is what I have heard or was told

They are going to have a meeting and those guy will sign a paper, then someone from the union will will take that to the boss. At that time he can go with it or contest it, if he contest it, the Mississippii labor board will hold a company wide vote. If the vote is more than 50% he will have to go union or close the doors.

Can this happen


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Alot of my post was cut off somehow or removed.....this is what I have heard or was told
> 
> They are going to have a meeting and those guy will sign a paper, then someone from the union will will take that to the boss. At that time he can go with it or contest it, if he contest it, the Mississippii labor board will hold a company wide vote. If the vote is more than 50% he will have to go union or close the doors.
> 
> Can this happen


If he is not making a lot of money off of your backs...yes.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

B4T said:


> BS.. the owner of the company is the one looking out for your interests by giving you a steady job..
> 
> If you don't like the environment.. feel free to leave..
> 
> Let the owner decide how he wants to run HIS business..


My boss has always been good to me, I was there when we had 3 guys and 1 truck, now 3 years latter, we have 20 guys and 10 trucks. I have always had a place to on monday and a check on friday. If I didnt have a place to go I would get paid for 8


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Voltech said:


> Alot of my post was cut off somehow or removed.....this is what I have heard or was told
> 
> They are going to have a meeting and those guy will sign a paper, then someone from the union will will take that to the boss. At that time he can go with it or contest it, if he contest it, the Mississippii labor board will hold a company wide vote. If the vote is more than 50% he will have to go union or close the doors.
> 
> Can this happen


Sure can, but I can think of three typical ways off the top of my head to prevent that. Hell, for all we know, your boss might not mind being a signatory.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Alot of my post was cut off somehow or removed.....this is what I have heard or was told
> 
> They are going to have a meeting and those guy will sign a paper, then someone from the union will will take that to the boss.* At that time he can go with it or contest it, if he contest it, the Mississippii labor board will hold a company wide vote. If the vote is more than 50% he will have to go union or close the doors.*Can this happen


I read that in your opening post and it was deleted.. 

Marc.. any reason why his post would be censored.. :blink::blink:


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## jbberns (Jan 14, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I suppose that's their right, as much as it is the owners right to take one of several courses of action that can leave all of those guys in the unemployment line. It will be interesting to learn how this hashes out in the next few months.


I'd say it's their right. 100 years ago they would have just shot'em. Strange how nothing gets mentioned about the corporation's hired guns. Just the "union thugs" that were hired to protect the men, women and children from getting slaughtered.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Corporations lobby politicians to change laws in their favor to gain an advantage.

Think corporations don't use the law to their advantage, ethical or not?

Unions do the same thing.

It's money, all of it.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

B4T said:


> I read that in your opening post and it was deleted..
> 
> Marc.. any reason why his post would be censored.. :blink::blink:


It wasn't. We invite these types of posts. Of the four moderators, one is a union contractor, one occasionally uses union labor, and two are non-union contractors. We have no issues with this topic, as long as it remains civil... Which it has.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jbberns said:


> I'd say it's their right. 100 years ago they would have just shot'em. Strange how nothing gets mentioned about the corporation's hired guns. Just the "union thugs" that were hired to protect the men, women and children from getting slaughtered.


Why can't the guys who want the Union environment go find a different shop.. :blink::blink:

Sounds like THEY want to use strong arm tactics to change another man's business..

Please tell me where I am wrong..


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

B4T said:


> BS.. the owner of the company is the one looking out for your interests by giving you a steady job..
> 
> If you don't like the environment.. feel free to leave..
> 
> Let the owner decide how he wants to run HIS business..


In a twisted way I agree with you. When I had a small shop I treated the small workforce that I had as good as I thought I should. I did care about them as individuals. What I did not do was keep people on board when no work was available. If your boss is looking out for you even when he has nothing for you to do, I commend him.


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## jbberns (Jan 14, 2009)

B4T said:


> Why can't the guys who want the Union environment go find a different shop.. :blink::blink:
> 
> Sounds like THEY want to use strong arm tactics to change another man's business..
> 
> Please tell me where I am wrong..


Strong Armed? Is it against the law what THEY are doing?


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## randas (Dec 14, 2008)

If some ass wipe came in and tried that with the company I work for I would be the first one telling my boss who it is so the POS can be un-employed by the end of the day. 

I've got no problem with the union but if that's your thing just go work for the union, don't go and screw up a good company. Oh wait the union has no work...


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

B4T said:


> Why can't the guys who want the Union environment go find a different shop.. :blink::blink:
> 
> Sounds like THEY want to use strong arm tactics to change another man's business..
> 
> Please tell me where I am wrong..


You're not wrong, but neither are they so long as they stay within the law.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

jbberns said:


> I'd say it's their right. 100 years ago they would have just shot'em. Strange how nothing gets mentioned about the corporation's hired guns. Just the "union thugs" that were hired to protect the men, women and children from getting slaughtered.


This contractor expanded in a short period of time from zilch to 20 employees. Doubtful he has hired guns. 100 years ago, large corporations sure did. Just wait, this contractor might just sign up. You never know. It sure opens up a sector of work he might not have had access to before.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jbberns said:


> Strong Armed? Is it against the law what THEY are doing?


Going to a labor board with a complaint is a good place to start..

Not against the law.. but still sucks anyway


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## jbberns (Jan 14, 2009)

I work for a multi million dollar company, that has been union since day one. How did they do it with those "union guys"?
They should be bankrupt by now.
BTW, are all the big banks union? That would explain a lot.


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## jbberns (Jan 14, 2009)

randas said:


> If some ass wipe came in and tried that with the company I work for I would be the first one telling my boss who it is so the POS can be un-employed by the end of the day.
> 
> I've got no problem with the union but if that's your thing just go work for the union, don't go and screw up a good company. Oh wait the union has no work...


I don't work for "The Union". A union is a group of people united together for a purpose.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

B4T said:


> Why can't the guys who want the Union environment go find a different shop.. :blink::blink:
> 
> Sounds like THEY want to use strong arm tactics to change another man's business..
> 
> Please tell me where I am wrong..


B4T, that's sorta how it works. Damned few are going to ring up the Local and ask where to sign.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

randas said:


> If some ass wipe came in and tried that with the company I work for I would be the first one telling my boss who it is so the POS can be un-employed by the end of the day.
> 
> I've got no problem with the union but if that's your thing just go work for the union, don't go and screw up a good company. Oh wait the union has no work...


If you are totally happy with the way you are dealt with at your company, tell us what you make per hour. It is important for you to tell the truth in order for you to make your case.


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## jbberns (Jan 14, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> This contractor expanded in a short period of time from zilch to 20 employees. Doubtful he has hired guns. 100 years ago, large corporations sure did. Just wait, this contractor might just sign up. You never know. It sure opens up a sector of work he might not have had access to before.


I was talking about years ago. Didn't mean present day hired guns. Sorry if I confused you.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Personally I'd close up shop before we were told what type of contractor to be.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Personally I'd close up shop before we were told what type of contractor to be.


 If you are a competent electrician and have some business savvy, would you not be happy to have a workforce that you did not have to pay until you won a bid?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> B4T, that's sorta how it works. Damned few are going to ring up the Local and ask where to sign.


So if you decide to let these guys go.. are you in for a boat load of trouble??


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

jbberns said:


> I was talking about years ago. Didn't mean present day hired guns. Sorry if I confused you.


No confusion here. I just prefer to keep the conversation relevant to 2011


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> would you not be happy to have a workforce that you did not have to pay until you won a bid?


Why would I want to have different electricians all time. That is one of the most ******** things I could do. Having a happy, non changing group of guys lets the clients get to know them, the guys get to know the client's sites, they work together better over the long term. 

It's a pain in the ass everytime we take on temp labors for constructon work cause they don't know anyone else, there's no teamwork.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Why would I want to have different electricians all time. That is one of the most ******** things I could do. Having a happy, non changing group of guys lets the clients get to know them, the guys get to know the client's sites, they work together better over the long term.
> 
> It's a pain in the ass everytime we take on temp labors for constructon work cause they don't know anyone else, there's no teamwork.


That's why a good foreman and efficient 10-minute morning meetings are important in a case like that.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> That's why a good foreman and efficient 10-minute morning meetings are important in a case like that.


Yeah to a degree, I'd still rather have a core group of electricians and other trades that have been working together for years with the same clients.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

You send your steady's to your steady customer and use the extra labor for the other jobs.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Voltech said:


> Alot of my post was cut off somehow or removed.....this is what I have heard or was told
> 
> They are going to have a meeting and those guy will sign a paper, then someone from the union will will take that to the boss. At that time he can go with it or contest it, if he contest it, the Mississippii labor board will hold a company wide vote. If the vote is more than 50% he will have to go union or close the doors.
> 
> Can this happen


Yes it can and yes he can but it takes a legal court to make the final call and if 50 percent vote the company is now union .


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> You send your steady's to your steady customer and use the extra labor for the other jobs.


Exactly!


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Why would I want to have different electricians all time. That is one of the most ******** things I could do. Having a happy, non changing group of guys lets the clients get to know them, the guys get to know the client's sites, they work together better over the long term.
> 
> It's a pain in the ass everytime we take on temp labors for constructon work cause they don't know anyone else, there's no teamwork.


I am not against what you are saying. I am only saying that being a union contractor can make available more work possibilities for you. It is just a fact that at some point, if you want to expand your company you will lose some opportunities because you will be wary of your capabilities. Nothing is perfect but having a qualified union pool to choose from is a good thing.


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## jbberns (Jan 14, 2009)

The company I work for has had a guy working in the same hospital for the last 15 years. Some guys stay at the same shop for 40 years. It sound like there are way too many rumors out there.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I hate doing that. Large new work (stuff worthy of a site office) gets labor and then company guys supervising/doing the technical work. 

Small new work and service works gets all company guys.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Like many shops out here that were duped, you will automatically become a B shop allowing you to work on projects no larger than 3500 sq ft.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I am not against what you are saying. I am only saying that being a union contractor can make available more work possibilities for you. It is just a fact that at some point, if you want to expand your company you will lose some opportunities because you will be wary of your capabilities. Nothing is perfect but having a qualified union pool to choose from is a good thing.


Actually for us to go union would be a step in the wrong direction. We're more then just an EC. We offer electrical, mechanical (fabrication, millright service, carpenters, ect), water/wastewater operations (AZ licensed operators), and design and utility management service. 

So actually I'm not really sure how this union thing would go down with us.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Actually for us to go union would be a step in the wrong direction. We're more then just an EC. We offer electrical, mechanical (fabrication, millright service, carpenters, ect), water/wastewater operations (AZ licensed operators), and design and utility management service.
> 
> So actually I'm not really sure how this union thing would go down with us.


Are you saying that you do a little of each?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Are you saying that you do a little of each?


No, we do all of it. Turnkey service for utility and industrial clients, mainly water and wastewater.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> We offer electrical, mechanical (fabrication, millright service, carpenters, ect),


In your case, you offer millWRONG service. 

Ba dump ching!


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Hey man, that capitalism at it's best.


Socialism at its best you mean.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm doing a dAft unit right now, but nobody probably cares.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I'm doing a dAft unit right now, but nobody probably cares.



Perhaps you could explain what that is, then those who are not in the know might care.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Perhaps you could explain what that is, then those who are not in the know might care.


Its a wastewater thing.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Its a wastewater thing.


So what does it do exactly? Can I google it? :laughing:


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

Peter D said:


> So what does it do exactly? Can I google it? :laughing:


 
prevents your faucets from shutting off completely


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

We've done and operate quite a few dissolved air systems. I'd post pics of the latest one but it's a prison plant so they won't let us even take them.


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

This is why I'm proud to live in Oklahoma. We have Right to Work So they cant make you go union 

And couldn't he just shut his doors change the company name slightly and fire the idiots that want to go union

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I'm doing a dAft unit right now, but nobody probably cares.


What is involved in something like that.. besides one of these..


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## OaklandElec (Jan 4, 2011)

JmanAllen said:


> This is why I'm proud to live in Oklahoma.
> 
> Whew, there's a statement you don't hear everyday!


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## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Sounds like a few people here aren't down with democracy in the work place.
Black4Truck, you need to do a Google search. Start with "NLRA" and then move on to "NLRB"............."Right to Work", more like right to slave.:whistling2:


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> What is involved in something like that.. besides one of these..


You... I hate to say it...Are Clever!


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## mgraw (Jan 14, 2011)

Voltech said:


> We are an open shop and have been growing everyday. Today I found out about 10 or 12 of our 20 guys are going to meet at the union hall to try and force my boss into%


 I assume the ms in your profile is for Mississippi. If so you are in a "Right to Work" state. You would not have to join the union.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Skinnyelectrician said:


> "Right to Work"


I'm in a right to work state, but if you don't like our outfit you either suck it up and deal with it or get lost. You don't start crap.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


>


I gotta help stick a 5 inch one of those into an inlet (a functional one BTW) to a lift station in a few days, fun, fun, fun . :no:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Voltech said:


> We are an open shop and have been growing everyday. Today I found out about 10 or 12 of our 20 guys are going to meet at the union hall to try and force my boss into%


I think you might be in for a nice surprise. You will have access to some very nice family healthcare insurance, some money put away for your retirement and free or very low cost education opportunities. Dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
Work hard, get dirty and go home tired is all that will be asked of you from a union contractor.
Think of your family and so not listen to those that think a collective voice is a bad thing. This is how our country was founded.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

jrannis said:


> I think you might be in for a nice surprise. You will have access to some very nice family healthcare insurance, some money put away for your retirement and free or very low cost education opportunities. Dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
> Work hard, get dirty and go home tired is all that will be asked of you from a union contractor.
> Think of your family and so not listen to those that think a collective voice is a bad thing. This is how our country was founded.


 
If you boss can weather higher cost and BS that is in store, if not you will have a flat tushie from bench warming.


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## anonymousbikes (Oct 11, 2008)

brian john said:


> If you boss can weather higher cost and BS that is in store, if not you will have a flat tushie from bench warming.


Again, because there is no BS in non-union right? Give it a break. Im starting to think you were forced to be a union contractor.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

anonymousbikes said:


> Again, because there is no BS in non-union right?


There is BS in non-union shops but much less of it.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

jrannis said:


> Think of your family and so not listen to those that think a collective voice is a bad thing. This is how our country was founded.


Collective bargaining is not what is best for all, it is only best for the few. 

Collective bargaining raises the costs we pay for goods and services.

All it does is move the wealth, it does not make wealth.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Union doesn't mean better, just means slugs have protection and higher pay then they deserve. You can get all the benefits of a union shop in a non-union one with out the extra expense of dues.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> I think you might be in for a nice surprise. .


Yup he will get fired...:laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Yup he will get fired...:laughing:


All of this crybaby stuff can only be dealt with in one way. Give then what they want:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

AFOREMA1 said:


> Union doesn't mean better, just means slugs have protection and higher pay then they deserve. You can get all the benefits of a union shop in a non-union one with out the extra expense of dues.


For only one worm in the shop, everybody else, good luck. :laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Yeah, sounds like you guys got successfully salted.
> 
> Hell, _I'd _vote Yes.


Did you see something like this?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Did you see something like this?


Note the big image size for Harry :jester:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I say BS, because as an owner I talk to other shop owners. Open shop and union and there is one less level of BS in an open shop. Any less stress on an owner is a good thing. 

Having said that I do believe our local is an excellent local and limits the BS, in comparison to what I have had to put up with when my men travel.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Why can't you guys post pics that fit on a screen without having to slide bar it..


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

brian john said:


> I say BS, because as an owner I talk to other shop owners. Open shop and union and there is one less level of BS in an open shop. Any less stress on an owner is a good thing.
> 
> Having said that I do believe our local is an excellent local and limits the BS, in comparison to what I have had to put up with when my men travel.


Union and non union owners just have different problems. OK the Union guy has to worry about working within a contract, but the non union has to worry about where he is going to get the 10 men he needs for the next job.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

jrannis said:


> I think you might be in for a nice surprise. You will have access to some very nice family healthcare insurance, some money put away for your retirement and free or very low cost education opportunities. Dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
> Work hard, get dirty and go home tired is all that will be asked of you from a union contractor.
> Think of your family and so not listen to those that think a collective voice is a bad thing. This is how our country was founded.



I dont have to be in the union to get that, all of which I already have. 

Our company is very good to us


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

AFOREMA1 said:


> You can get all the benefits of a union shop in a non-union one with out the extra expense of dues.


Yeah, you _can_.

But good luck. :laughing:


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

B4T said:


> Why can't you guys post pics that fit on a screen without having to slide bar it..


 And I have been searching google to see what my little girl did this time...:no:


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Voltech said:


> My boss has always been good to me, I was there when we had 3 guys and 1 truck, now 3 years latter, we have 20 guys and 10 trucks. I have always had a place to on monday and a check on friday. If I didnt have a place to go I would get paid for 8


That's too bad. Your boss sounds like a great guy and he doesn't deserve this.


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> If you are a competent electrician and have some business savvy, would you not be happy to have a workforce that you did not have to pay until you won a bid?


And the 10 or so that were getting checks each week even when work was slow now find themselves sitting on the bench at the hall waiting for work.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Like many shops out here that were duped, you will automatically become a B shop allowing you to work on projects no larger than 3500 sq ft.


Not everywhere:

L.U. 756 (es&i), DAYTONA BEACH, FL—Local 756 is working on a Super Walmart project in New Smyrna Beach, FL. The job was awarded to TP Electric, a contractor from White, GA. The company signed an agreement with the local and is now one of our signatory contractors.
Our local has been out of the big-box store market for the most part since the '90s. This job is moving at a very fast pace and the union crew is performing well. 

The foreman, with many years' experience running nonunion projects, stated this is one of the most productive and smooth running jobs he has run. As of mid-June, we have the foreman, two journeyman wiremen, seven indentured apprentices and two construction electricians on the project. 

More calls should come in to meet the completion date of late October. Walmart wants to be open by November. Kudos go to the Local 756 members for making the first union experience with this new contractor a success.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

RIVETER said:


> I am not against what you are saying. I am only saying that being a union contractor can make available more work possibilities for you. It is just a fact that at some point, if you want to expand your company you will lose some opportunities because you will be wary of your capabilities. Nothing is perfect but having a qualified union pool to choose from is a good thing.


This is not always true. Where I am at ( I am a Union Contractor) I can put a call in for 3 men and most times I am told to go and hire who ever I can find because there are no men to send me. So just because you are Union does not mean the "hall" will send you anyone much less a being able to use a "qualified union pool":no:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BDB said:


> This is not always true. Where I am at ( I am a Union Contractor) I can put a call in for 3 men and most times I am told to go and hire who ever I can find because there are no men to send me. So just because you are Union does not mean the "hall" will send you anyone much less a being able to use a "qualified union pool":no:


 
The vast majority of halls can supply men, especially now. Whether they are qualified to to anything other that basic electric work is a shot in the dark.


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## BDB (Jul 9, 2008)

brian john said:


> The vast majority of halls can supply men, especially now. Whether they are qualified to to anything other that basic electric work is a shot in the dark.


Key word being majority(not all), but if I have to hold up my end of the contract then they should have to also, correct?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

BDB said:


> Key word being majority(not all), but if I have to hold up my end of the contract then they should have to also, correct?


 
The very few times we needed men from the hall, they could not supply them (in the peak of the boom) and at transfer when our apprentices transfered, replacements never showed up. When questioned the hall said they got lost in the mix. Funny thing is many small contractors were SCREWED in the mix.


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

Skinnyelectrician said:


> Sounds like a few people here aren't down with democracy in the work place.
> Black4Truck, you need to do a Google search. Start with "NLRA" and then move on to "NLRB"............."Right to Work", more like right to slave.:whistling2:





> The Act does not apply to workers who are covered by the Railway Labor Act, agricultural employees, domestic employees, supervisors, federal, state or local government workers, *independent contractors* and some close relatives of individual employers.


From reading what I googled, it wouldn't apply to independent electrical contractors. Unless they changed the law.

I'm not anti-union or pro-union. (I'm management in a non-union shop). I was just wondering..


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Motorwinder said:


> From reading what I googled, it wouldn't apply to independent electrical contractors. Unless they changed the law.
> 
> I'm not anti-union or pro-union. (I'm management in a non-union shop). I was just wondering..


An independent contractor is a one man shop not an electrical contractor that is no union. the ops contractor has over 20 employees he is not what they are talking about when they use the term independent contractor. So that exception does not cover him.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

AFOREMA1 said:


> An independent contractor is a one man shop *not an electrical contractor* that is no union.


I am a one man shop, and I guess I could also be called an independent contractor, but, the one thing that I know for sure, is that I AM AN ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR.


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## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

Forced into the union???????? Hell, I wish that would have happened to me years ago. :laughing:


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Jmohl said:


> And the 10 or so that were getting checks each week even when work was slow now find themselves sitting on the bench at the hall waiting for work.


I think you may have found Heaven if you stumbled onto a contractor who kept you working for a long time even if he was not making money. Do you think that is the case?


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

Skinnyelectrician said:


> Forced into the union???????? Hell, I wish that would have happened to me years ago. :laughing:


 I got forced into the union in 95 I was upset when my pay increased as it put me in a higher tax bracket and then they had the nerve to provide me with health insurance,can you believe the nerve, and then to top it off and really get me mad they put money into a retirement fund. And don't get me started on the vacation and holiday pay that would make me blow my top. But the worst thing of all was that stupid contract that clearly spelled out what my obligations were and what the contractors obligations were , like who was supose to supply tools and when overtime started like it is anyones business.:laughing:


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Well I don't really see how this would be bad for you, I am guessing the union benefits will out way the ones u have now. 

If you are in a right to work state you will still have union representation and all the benefits and you do not have to sign the ticket. That will be a decision you will have to make but will probably get some preasure to sign.

Your boss will have to make a decision to keep his doors open or shut it down. 

I organized my own company, it was a good decision for us and we have had many more positive experiences then negative. We have a good relationship with the local and our shop has a good reputation among the men.


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## VictorM78 (Aug 18, 2011)

Voltron here is working for a RAT.

No need to mix words. The owner of a non-union commercial industrial shop is best known as a RAT. 

Except for davis-bacon work, there is not more than one merit shop out there that matches union scales for any man below the rank of foreman. Not even close. The RAT shop may match the hourly wage, but then the man has to shell out money each check for his health benefits. What is the going rate now for health insurance working non-union? About $140 a week for a family of four? Right off the check too.

So go ahead Voltran, your boss needs suckups like you to stay afloat. You're such a good good boy. <master splinter pats on head>


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

VictorM78 said:


> Voltron here is working for a RAT.
> 
> No need to mix words. The owner of a non-union commercial industrial shop is best known as a RAT.
> 
> ...


Oh I bet there is more than one merit shop out there with benefits equal to or greater than the local IBEW.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

DO NOT sign anything about joining the union. Support your boss. Here's what your boss could do. "Close" shop. Fire everyone. Next week file for a new business name and contractors license. Be back to running within the week without the a-holes that were poking their nose in his business. You as a loyal employee should be retained.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

VictorM78 said:


> there is not more than one merit shop out there that matches union scales for any man below the rank of foreman. Not even close.


:laughing: Would you like to spread any other falsehoods.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> DO NOT sign anything about joining the union. Support your boss. Here's what your boss could do. "Close" shop. Fire everyone. Next week file for a new business name and contractors license. Be back to running within the week without the a-holes that were poking their nose in his business. You as a loyal employee should be retained.


If your boss has the same people and the same work, how can he be at a disadvantage? 
Your boss will now have access to more opportunities with access to benefits for his guys and the ability to bring in highly productive and skilled labor. Remember, you work for a living. You can only sell your labor. Why sell they only thing you have for cheap?
Don't be the guy that has to explain to his family and other people why he works for less than a living wage with no benefits and no possibility of a decent retirement.


Now be sure to go the the bosses house and wash his boat.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

Why is it such a misconception that non-union guys do not make a "living wage", have medical or have retirement? And you know where that highly skilled, highly productive workforce is? In the hall. 

My first choice when I went into business was to go union. I went down to the hall, they handed me the paperwork, and sent me on my way. They wouldn't answer my questions. It was going to cost me too much money. Then I was looking at the 100 or so guys at the hall and I kept asking myself why do all these guys deserve the same compensation? 

If being in the Union pays so well, why are so many Union guys doing side work? What are you greedy? OMG, I think I just had a revelation. These greedy Union guys are just like the non-union contractors they hate and fight with so much. Just looking out for number 1.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

jrannis said:


> If your boss has the same people and the same work, how can he be at a disadvantage?
> Your boss will now have access to more opportunities with access to benefits for his guys and the ability to bring in highly productive and skilled labor. Remember, you work for a living. You can only sell your labor. Why sell they only thing you have for cheap?
> Don't be the guy that has to explain to his family and other people why he works for less than a living wage with no benefits and no possibility of a decent retirement.
> 
> ...


Wow and here I thought there were bosses out there providing benefits and great pay without being in the union. And being union doesn't give you access to a great work force just a large workforce.

Sorry the union doesn't offer more than versatility that is the only benefit that I cannot get at a decent nonunion contractor.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

VictorM78 said:


> Voltron here is working for a RAT.
> 
> No need to mix words. The owner of a non-union commercial industrial shop is best known as a RAT.
> 
> ...


Read all the past post, even pro union men say members like you ARE THE PROBLEM, with the IBEW. You are the type that ferment the hatred of unions and do NOTHING to sway open shop men to join or organize their shops.

Time for you to wise up, grow up act like a proud member of the IBEW and promote the positives not advertise your ignorance and bigotry.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> Why is it such a misconception that non-union guys do not make a "living wage", have medical or have retirement? And you know where that highly skilled, highly productive workforce is? In the hall.
> 
> My first choice when I went into business was to go union. I went down to the hall, they handed me the paperwork, and sent me on my way. They wouldn't answer my questions. It was going to cost me too much money. Then I was looking at the 100 or so guys at the hall and I kept asking myself why do all these guys deserve the same compensation?
> 
> If being in the Union pays so well, why are so many Union guys doing side work? What are you greedy? OMG, I think I just had a revelation. These greedy Union guys are just like the non-union contractors they hate and fight with so much. Just looking out for number 1.


Bingo got it on the first try. The difference is union guys pay dues and and they call nonunion guys hacks while they are out scabbing work on the side.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

For the original poster,

Assuming the market in Mississippi can handle a union contractor with his increased overhead, the benefit for you should be increased wages and benefits (typically). I think in the long run you will be better off assuming there is work and as noted the market can handle your boss being union.

The issue I have, is forcing you boss into something he may not want, or may not be able to afford. I just feel now is not the best time (based on national issues) to force his hand.

If I was your boss I would most likely offer better wages and benefits upping the union. Then fire the bozo's causing problems (CAREFULLY) avoiding breaking any labor laws.


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> Here's what your boss could do. "Close" shop. Fire everyone. Next week file for a new business name and contractors license. Be back to running within the week without the a-holes that were poking their nose in his business. You as a loyal employee should be retained.


If this happened with my company, that is exactly what I would do. 

The guys that tried to force me to do something with *MY* company against my wishes, could call me all the names in the world they wanted to - on their way to the unemployment office.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

MarkyMark said:


> If this happened with my company, that is exactly what I would do.
> 
> The guys that tried to force me to do something with *MY* company against my wishes, could call me all the names in the world they wanted to - on their way to the unemployment office.


 
While I have no clue what they are, there are labor laws that do try to tie the hands of owners to prevent this type of thing from happening.


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## Skinnyelectrician (Aug 10, 2011)

brian john said:


> While I have no clue what they are, there are labor laws that do try to tie the hands of owners to prevent this type of thing from happening.


It's called the WARN ACT. I don't think it's ever been enforced though.


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Warn act won't help these guys, small shop..... from http://www.doleta.gov/programs/factsht/warn.htm

In general, employers are covered by WARN if they have 100 or more employees, not counting employees who have worked less than 6 months in the last 12 months and not counting employees who work an average of less than 20 hours a week.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> There is BS in non-union shops but much less of it.:laughing:


The majority of BS in open shops comes right out of Bob's piehole......


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## VictorM78 (Aug 18, 2011)

brian john said:


> Read all the past post, even pro union men say members like you ARE THE PROBLEM, with the IBEW. You are the type that ferment the hatred of unions and do NOTHING to sway open shop men to join or organize their shops.
> 
> Time for you to wise up, grow up act like a proud member of the IBEW and promote the positives not advertise your ignorance and bigotry.


LOL. I don't hate the men. The men aren't rats. The contractor is the RAT. He buys all his toys and vacation property on the backs of the tools who are dumb enough to work for him.

Yeah, I'm the reason the ibew has a bad image...... no, we americans aren't militant enough. Too many sissy electricians out there satisfied to get by hand-to-mouth. Nevermind when retirement comes due and they got GOOSE-EGGS.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

VictorM78 said:


> LOL. I don't hate the men. The men aren't rats. The contractor is the RAT. He buys all his toys and vacation property on the backs of the tools who are dumb enough to work for him.
> 
> Yeah, I'm the reason the ibew has a bad image...... no, we americans aren't militant enough. Too many sissy electricians out there satisfied to get by hand-to-mouth. Nevermind when retirement comes due and they got GOOSE-EGGS.


Oh please!

You brain washed stupid ****

You wouldn't know a rat if he bit ur ass and stole your cheese

Sent from my iPad using ET Forum


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## VictorM78 (Aug 18, 2011)

I know a RAT when I meet one. They get together in places like hotel conference rooms for IEC meetings. I wish I could pee in that punch bowl.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

hey if I was a contractor and I could get more "Real" work by going union, why the heck not. If it doesnt work out just close the doors and reopen again and start over. You (your boss) obviously have the connections for the work.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

steelersman said:


> The majority of BS in open shops comes right out of Bob's piehole......


Hey Lou, great to see you around.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

VictorM78 said:


> The contractor is the RAT. He buys all his toys and vacation property on the backs of the tools who are dumb enough to work for him.


While the owners of union shops sleep in a box and eat bugs for dinner.:laughing:

And I choose to work non-union because of assholes like you.:thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

brian john said:


> Read all the past post, even pro union men say members like you ARE THE PROBLEM, with the IBEW. You are the type that ferment the hatred of unions and do NOTHING to sway open shop men to join or organize their shops.
> 
> Time for you to wise up, grow up act like a proud member of the IBEW and promote the positives not advertise your ignorance and bigotry.


Candidate for post of the year. :thumbsup:


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> And I choose to work non-union because of assholes like you.:thumbsup:


Careful of calling the kettle black Blob Knight........


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Why can't you guys post pics that fit on a screen without having to slide bar it..


Because jannis does not want us to read these threads because he is afraid that his special union status will get bashed..


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

I have been lied to or stonewalled every time I get near a union rep. I have posted my experiences in detail several times here. Not ONE union PRICK has bothered to explain or defend any of it. To hell with all of you.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> I have been lied to or stonewalled every time I get near a union rep. I have posted my experiences in detail several times here. Not ONE union PRICK has bothered to explain or defend any of it. To hell with all of you.


I am a realist. If you try to do something more than once and success doesn't happen...try something else. You are only making yourself miserable.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> I have been lied to or stonewalled every time I get near a union rep. I have posted my experiences in detail several times here. Not ONE union PRICK has bothered to explain or defend any of it. To hell with all of you.



Hahahaha you're even more ******** than Harry. And that my friend is hard to accomplish.......


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

JTMEYER said:


> I have been lied to or stonewalled every time I get near a union rep. I have posted my experiences in detail several times here. Not ONE union PRICK has bothered to explain or defend any of it. To hell with all of you.


Remember it is all about them and they don't care about except that you had better pay all your taxes to support them because on their own they cannot.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

steelersman said:


> Hahahaha you're even more ******** than Harry. And that my friend is hard to accomplish.......



How was your spelling BEE tonight with all the sissy's you hang out with...:laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Well, some of you obviously wanted this thread closed. You got it.


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