# Grandma's Iron



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

This is from S1E2 of The Waltons, set in the 1930's Depression Era.


Notice how grandma's iron is powered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but back then gas piping was converted to electrical conduit which is why receptacles were ceiling mounted back then. At a location on the ceiling where there previously was a gas light you'd have an electric light and one or more receptacles to power appliances, radios (before television), etc.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I haven't spent any time in a place with the old gas pipes in many years. I never saw the gas pipes converted myself, they were abandoned and electrical run in surface mounted cables - more like zip cord to the lights. I do not remember any gas light ceiling lights, only wall lights - not sure if a gas light on the ceiling wouldn't set the ceiling on fire. 

Of course a rural house like this wouldn't have gas service, did they have bottled gas for rural homes back then? Not that Hollywood would necessarily worry about that kind of detail. 

I remember seeing lots of pictures where you had the edison socket receptacle adapters with all kinds of junk plugged in. I think electric was first seen as something just for lighting, then electrical household appliances became popular later, there were not a lot of receptacles around.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

All good points @splatz.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

splatz said:


> I haven't spent any time in a place with the old gas pipes in many years. I never saw the gas pipes converted myself, they were abandoned and electrical run in surface mounted cables - more like zip cord to the lights. I do not remember any gas light ceiling lights, only wall lights - not sure if a gas light on the ceiling wouldn't set the ceiling on fire.
> 
> Of course a rural house like this wouldn't have gas service, did they have bottled gas for rural homes back then? Not that Hollywood would necessarily worry about that kind of detail.
> 
> I remember seeing lots of pictures where you had the edison socket receptacle adapters with all kinds of junk plugged in. I think electric was first seen as something just for lighting, then electrical household appliances became popular later, there were not a lot of receptacles around.


Splatz is right... she plugged her iron into Edison plug screwed into the BRYANT ceiling pendant light socket. You may also remember the old socket adapters (Also first made by Bryant) they would just keep adding them to the original pendant. Each adapter would have two 2-wire (not polarized) single receptacles on them. Everything was hooked into the ceiling connected to knob and tube wiring in the attic. The service was a plug fuse disconnect. Square D was the biggest manufacturer of those at first. We had a Bull Dog disconnect on the back porch of our house. Bull Dog was later acquired by ITE. Waldo Bryant was the first to manufacture the brass screw shells, he had an engineer working for him named Harvey Hubbell who invented the first 2-wire single wall receptacle. I’ll try to post pictures of some of the old stuff I still have.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

In a rural area in the 30's, the power would have been a Delco system. I'm not sure they would have used a Edison socket adaptor to run a clothes iron.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I am sure that in the 1930's electrical installations were not nearly as uniform across the country as they are today. 

One thing I am starting to gather is that national brands are a relatively recent thing, maybe post World War II. There was a time when even big names were only dominant in their region. Doing business coast to coast wasn't as easy. 

The picture attached is from this page, great collection of pictures there...

http://www.damnedcomputer.com/genealogy/Early Electrical Lighting in Homes « Rexophone.com.htm


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

splatz said:


> I am sure that in the 1930's electrical installations were not nearly as uniform across the country as they are today.
> 
> One thing I am starting to gather is that national brands are a relatively recent thing, maybe post World War II. There was a time when even big names were only dominant in their region. Doing business coast to coast wasn't as easy.
> 
> ...



That is a super article! The writer mentions Westinghouse wiring devices... Westinghouse got into wiring devices by acquiring Bryant in 1909. I also failed to mention that Harvey Hubbell resigned from Bryant around 1890 and formed his old company. For years and years the Bryant and Hubbell plants were across the street from one another in Bridgeport, Connecticut.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It’s a prop on a TV show. There’s no cord.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

From having had to rewire many homes originally wired by the REA, I can tell you that there were ordinarily only two receptacles in a modest home. The "coffee pot/toaster receptacle" and the "radio receptacle". Everything else plugged into a lamp socket with an adapter, and some small appliances had an Edison screw base attachment plug on the cord instead of straight blades so you didn't need to use an adapter.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

On a side note, a modest REA wired home would either have a "lighting plant" (aka farm plant) in the basement or in a shed if the wires were far away or would have a 30a rated 120v service. Up until about 10 years ago I did service upgrades on a metric shet ton of the old 30a,120v services that the power company was finally getting around to making people do something about. What's funny is that some of these homes were so modest that the new calculated demand load still fell within those parameters.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Around here a Carter, live 3-way is called a Delco 3-way by old timers because they used it to power the house from the plant in a shed. A third wire would let you turn on a light in the shed from the kitchen or the shed.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

MDShunk said:


> On a side note, a modest REA wired home would either have a "lighting plant" (aka farm plant) in the basement or in a shed if the wires were far away or would have a 30a rated 120v service. Up until about 10 years ago I did service upgrades on a metric shet ton of the old 30a,120v services that the power company was finally getting around to making people do something about. What's funny is that some of these homes were so modest that the new calculated demand load still fell within those parameters.



Then the step up was only a 60A main & range pull out and 4 plug fuses. The main & range would often be fed from an A type meter with the bottom of the meter and top of the can being open... birds (probably wrens) would build nests in the cavity and somehow never get electrocuted or cause a fire. :surprise:


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

I read somewhere that there also used to just be live screw terminals on the wall, and appliances came with a bare cord end which was terminated to those screws. Imagine being the janitor that bumps one of those with a wet mop... 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

We have a lot of homes in the city here that were wired at the same time the gas lines were installed for the ceiling lights and sconces. 

I remember an old timer telling me that somewhere along the line someone made the decision that electricity may just be a fad, so you better have both gas and electrical ran to the lights, just in case. 

More than half the homes I come across still have the gas lines active too. I did run into an actual operative gas sconce light in Monterey around 20 years ago. It was the first and only one I have ever seen. (Besides camping and portable units).


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

B-Nabs said:


> I read somewhere that there also used to just be live screw terminals on the wall, and appliances came with a ba
> 
> re cord end which was terminated to those screws. Imagine being the janitor that bumps one of those with a wet mop...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


A Hubbel rep once told me that Harvey Hubbell invented the first 2-wire single receptacle because of the potential of getting a bad shock from the old double screw studs. He said ole Harvey especially worried about little kids touching them. No codes or OSHA back then!

Hubbell also claims they were the first to come out with a 2-wire duplex receptacle. It was decades later before Bryant introduced the grounded (2-pole, 3-wire) version we have now.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> I haven't spent any time in a place with the old gas pipes in many years. I never saw the gas pipes converted myself, they were abandoned and electrical run in surface mounted cables - more like zip cord to the lights. I do not remember any gas light ceiling lights, only wall lights - not sure if a gas light on the ceiling wouldn't set the ceiling on fire.
> 
> Of course a rural house like this wouldn't have gas service, did they have bottled gas for rural homes back then? Not that Hollywood would necessarily worry about that kind of detail.
> 
> I remember seeing lots of pictures where you had the edison socket receptacle adapters with all kinds of junk plugged in. I think electric was first seen as something just for lighting, then electrical household appliances became popular later, there were not a lot of receptacles around.



I have seen old gas light chandeliers but they were in very large homes and hung a tad over 6' from the floor. 


Electric ceiling fixtures with two Edison sockets are far more common.

I live in one of the oldest counties in this country and it's still a place to see all that old technology first hand.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

*Adapter and Edison plug*



jelhill said:


> Splatz is right... she plugged her iron into Edison plug screwed into the BRYANT ceiling pendant light socket. You may also remember the old socket adapters (Also first made by Bryant) they would just keep adding them to the original pendant. Each adapter would have two 2-wire (not polarized) single receptacles on them. Everything was hooked into the ceiling connected to knob and tube wiring in the attic. The service was a plug fuse disconnect. Square D was the biggest manufacturer of those at first. We had a Bull Dog disconnect on the back porch of our house. Bull Dog was later acquired by ITE. Waldo Bryant was the first to manufacture the brass screw shells, he had an engineer working for him named Harvey Hubbell who invented the first 2-wire single wall receptacle. I’ll try to post pictures of some of the old stuff I still have.


Here is an adapter and an Edison plug that I still had. Before battery powered drills it came in handy for getting power for your drill when only a keyless was available.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Better view


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

I've still got a couple of those rolling around in the bottom of my Klein linebag. :biggrin:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> I've still got a couple of those rolling around in the bottom of my Klein linebag. :biggrin:


You me and most other guys over 40!


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> You me and most other guys over 40!


It's funny, I have my collection and my dad's collection of tools. 

I look at mine and see stuff in there I bet today's apprentices would just laugh at. 

Then I look at my dad's collection and see stuff that belongs in a museum.
:vs_laugh:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> It's funny, I have my collection and my dad's collection of tools.
> 
> I look at mine and see stuff in there I bet today's apprentices would just laugh at.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:

It's all good, tools are tools and in the right hands can be a great thing. 

I have woodworking tools that go back to my Great Grandfather which are basically civil war era and they are still just as sharp and usable. 

BTW I till use the Edison adapter to use a circuit tracer on a keyless fixture.


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## fdew (Mar 26, 2009)

Great thread. I collect fixtures from this error including "Plugs" that screw into a socket. I display them with a Kohler light plant and explain what has been written here.


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## dmxtothemax (Jun 15, 2010)

QUOTE - not sure if a gas light on the ceiling wouldn't set the ceiling on fire.


In Australia they made allowances for gas lighting, 

So any room which had roof mounted gas lighting
the ceiling height would be two feet higher
to safely allow the heat to dissipate.
So instead of being 10 feet high it would be 12 foot.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

460 Delta said:


> Around here a Carter, live 3-way is called a Delco 3-way by old timers because they used it to power the house from the plant in a shed. A third wire would let you turn on a light in the shed from the kitchen or the shed.


I remember one farm I done rewireing there were a standard 120/240 volt single phase 60 amp main line then there were second set of conductors which it was 32 volts DC from old delco plant ( the latter verison switched over to 120 volts AC but used the same set of conductors ) from the shed where they kept the delco gaz generator set and main fuse box there. plus a set of dammed carter 3 wayers from the house to shed and barn .,, 

Cleaned all that crap out and ran underground and the issue sloved and yes they did have generator on hand but it is a pto type to hook up to the transfer switch at the shed to lit up the whole farm area. 

The farm house that was a boatload full of dammed KT in there.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

And it was more important to light the farm area than the house because it's the farm area that makes the money. You can light the house with a candle or an oil lamp.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

frenchelectrican said:


> I remember one farm I done rewireing there were a standard 120/240 volt single phase 60 amp main line then there were second set of conductors which it was 32 volts DC from old delco plant ( the latter verison switched over to 120 volts AC but used the same set of conductors ) from the shed where they kept the delco gaz generator set and main fuse box there. plus a set of *dammed carter 3 wayers *from the house to shed and barn .,,
> 
> Cleaned all that crap out and ran underground and the issue sloved and yes they did have generator on hand but it is a pto type to hook up to the transfer switch at the shed to lit up the whole farm area.
> 
> The farm house that was a boatload full of *dammed KT *in there.



Now, tell us how you feel.... don’t hold back! :vs_laugh:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> I remember one farm I done rewireing there were a standard 120/240 volt single phase 60 amp main line then there were second set of conductors which it was 32 volts DC from old delco plant ( the latter verison switched over to 120 volts AC but used the same set of conductors ) from the shed where they kept the delco gaz generator set and main fuse box there. plus a set of dammed carter 3 wayers from the house to shed and barn .,,
> 
> Cleaned all that crap out and ran underground and the issue sloved and yes they did have generator on hand but it is a pto type to hook up to the transfer switch at the shed to lit up the whole farm area.
> 
> The farm house that was a boatload full of dammed KT in there.


Every farm house I've worked in had K&T and some even had homemade add on nail and dowel..lol!


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Every farm house I've worked in had K&T and some even had homemade add on nail and dowel..lol!



I remember one barn I worked on was full of BX... and it was rusty it would fall apart if you just touched it. :sad:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

jelhill said:


> I remember one barn I worked on was full of BX... and it was rusty it would fall apart if you just touched it. :sad:


I've touched plenty that the insulation would crack as soon as you touched it.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

jelhill said:


> Now, tell us how you feel.... don’t hold back! :vs_laugh:


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

Well if the orginal KT was not messed up it was easy shot but the issue is that over the years they get farmer special KT system that can bit your arse if you are not aware of it and they are pretty close to the ring circuit ( that is one crazy subject that I will talk about it later I been there pretty often when I was in France. )

But too many handydolts do a good job mess it up with KT and also when someone try to hook up extra lights on carter system that can get their attetion if they were aware of switching connection set up.

the other curpit with carter system ( especially with KT system ) is if you put in new panel and if you are not pay attetion to phase postion you will end up send 240 volts to luminaire socket.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> Well if the orginal KT was not messed up it was easy shot but the issue is that over the years they get farmer special KT system that can bit your arse if you are not aware of it and they are pretty close to the ring circuit ( that is one crazy subject that I will talk about it later I been there pretty often when I was in France. )
> 
> ...




You got that right, always fun to see what has been "repaired".


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

My dad told me about an old farm house he and my uncle were rewiring. They pulled the main fuses to kill the power, and my dad went up into the attic. When he got into the attic there was a light on...
He checked and found Farmer Brown had hung a keyless tapped off the main Hydro lines coming in.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Kawicrash said:


> My dad told me about an old farm house he and my uncle were rewiring. They pulled the main fuses to kill the power, and my dad went up into the attic. When he got into the attic there was a light on...
> He checked and found Farmer Brown had hung a keyless tapped off the main Hydro lines coming in.


And far from the first time that was done.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> You got that right, always fun to see what has been "repaired".


Yuh espeally with some handydolts been upgrade the panel themselves and they call me about exploding light bulbs and I knew right away what the curpit was .,, 

one handydolt somehow got little smart by wireing up two light sockets in series to work with " 240 " volt circuit and when they replace that luminaire the fun begins .,, ( with nice off color chatting in background .,, )


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Yuh espeally with some handydolts been upgrade the panel themselves and they call me about exploding light bulbs and I knew right away what the curpit was .,,
> 
> one handydolt somehow got little smart by wireing up two light sockets in series to work with " 240 " volt circuit and when they replace that luminaire the fun begins .,, ( with nice off color chatting in background .,, )


One of my favorites is when they drive large nails in joists and wrap the conductors around them instead of using insulators and you find them by touching the nail heads in the insulation.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Kawicrash said:


> My dad told me about an old farm house he and my uncle were rewiring. They pulled the main fuses to kill the power, and my dad went up into the attic. When he got into the attic there was a light on...
> He checked and found Farmer Brown had hung a keyless tapped off the main Hydro lines coming in.


Man! I know that unsettling feeling! You turn off the main and there are circuits that are still hot! :vs_OMG:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

jelhill said:


> Man! I know that unsettling feeling! You turn off the main and there are circuits that are still hot! :vs_OMG:


I have see that once a while with that and especially if you have split buss main system ( either fuse or circuit breakers ) that can raise the pluck factor up a bit.,,


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

MechanicalDVR said:


> One of my favorites is when they drive large nails in joists and wrap the conductors around them instead of using insulators and you find them by touching the nail heads in the insulation.


Oh yeah, the good ole K&T days. I loved the guys who thought they were doing good work by tacking down the conductors with romex or fence staples, and they would hammer them in so tight that they would break through the insulation. It was a fun day when you ran into a bunch of HOT romex staples!!!


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

@frenchelectrician, Handydolt is going to be my new go to for idiots!


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

jelhill said:


> Oh yeah, the good ole K&T days. I loved the guys who thought they were doing good work by tacking down the conductors with romex or fence staples, and they would hammer them in so tight that they would break through the insulation. It was a fun day when you ran into a bunch of HOT romex staples!!!


Yeah man, who needs insulation on conductors.....lol!


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## Norcal (Mar 22, 2007)

It was my understanding that Harvey Hubbell invented the porcelain pullchain lampholder, & one of principles of what became Arrow H&H invented the light switch.


Arrow H&H, Arrow Hart & Hegeman.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Norcal said:


> It was my understanding that Harvey Hubbell invented the porcelain pullchain lampholder, & one of principles of what became Arrow H&H invented the light switch.
> 
> 
> Arrow H&H, Arrow Hart & Hegeman.


 



*VERYEARLY HISTORY OF THE WIRING DEVICE INDUSTRY*​


The first wiring device company in the United States was Bryant, founded by Waldo Calvin Bryant in 1888 in Bridgeport, Connecticut, with seven employees working in a loft on John Street in Bridgeport. Waldo Bryant and *others at Bryant invented and patented a number of switches and brass shell components, including "the *first* push-pull AC/DCswitch". Bryant’s switch became the standard in commercial and industrial applications. Many of those switches can still be seen today in restored trolley cars. Although responsible for more than 500 patents by 1935, including the first nurses call station for hospitals, Waldo Bryant's most significant contribution to the wiring devices industry was his idea regarding industry standardization.


Bryant grew quickly and, in 1890, acquired the Standard Electric Company and Empire Porcelain Works. In 1891, Bryant relocated to a former school building owned by P. T.Barnum off State Street and, by 1905, employed 700 people.  The Perkins Electric Switch Company was acquired in 1899, with the employees and plant relocating to Bridgeport. Waldo Bryant needed more capital for expansion and sold the majority interest to Westinghouse Electric in 1901, though he continued to run the company as the *Bryant Electric* subsidiary of Westinghouse until 1927. One reason for down playing the Westinghouse ownership was to keep independent Bryant distributors from dropping the Bryant line. 

For a time, Bryant was Bridgeport's largest employer and, by 1912, its 200,000-square-foot plant on State Street in Bridgeport was the largest in the world "devoted exclusively to the manufacture of wiring devices." 


_*It should be noted that Harvey Hubbell was one of Bryant’s early hires, and he later started his own company across the street in Bridgeport. Hubbell was the first to invent the tandem blade plug and receptacle in 1902. A bit ofirony is that In 1991 Bryant was one of the divisions Westinghouse sold off in the effort to avoid bankruptcy, and it was sold to Hubbell. _


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

*Old Pictures - Ford Plant - Around 1915*

Note the old switchboard banks with open knife switches. :biggrin: 


Ford_Plant_Postcards_Circa_19172-rfh1111.pdf


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

jelhill said:


> Note the old switchboard banks with open knife switches. :biggrin:


https://modelaowners.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Ford_Plant_Postcards_Circa_19172-rfh1.pdf


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Look at the floor in that powerhouse


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