# homeowner having problems with wiring...



## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Well I found out why pretty quickly, it all started when they went to turn off the "hallway" breaker to change some fixtures. It didn't go so well.

Breakers were not properly labeled, double tapped breakers, live wires left hanging above drop ceiling, list goes on and on. And apparently wire color did not matter to any of them.

It was a rental property that went through about five "DIY" renters and it looks like each one added subpanels, fixtures and switches in their own special way.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Looks like some slumlord kinda s**t.

What's up with the drop ceiling? I've never seen one in a house.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

erics37 said:


> Looks like some slumlord kinda s**t.
> 
> What's up with the drop ceiling? I've never seen one in a house.


House was just sold to these people as I'm guessing the landlord did not want to deal with it anymore...


Drop ceiling is in the basement.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

zwodubber said:


> House was just sold to these people as I'm guessing the landlord did not want to deal with it anymore...
> 
> 
> Drop ceiling is in the basement.



There are a lot of houses with droped ceilings here.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I have a drop ceiling in the first floor powder room to give me access to the second floor bath plumbing.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I love those fiberglass tiles with the thin plastic coating. What a pain in the @ss to put back in place.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

That evil dreaded "double tap" is complaint. Those CH series breaker WILL accept two conductors. Although I know some HI's who will still try and argue that the house is going to spontaneously combust because of it. :whistling2:


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

I seen more hack work done with CH tan handle panels than any other type of panel. Im not sure why its just weird. Personally i love cutler hammer products. Last night i had a job in a 2 family apartment that was filled with hack work but had CH panels. I needed a 15 amp tandem CH breaker from HD and it was 30 dollars


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

I just noticed the black #12s going to the lugs where the service conductors terminate. Where do those go?

Do they feed that round device at the top? Lightening arrester?


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

electricalperson said:


> I just noticed the black #12s going to the lugs where the service conductors terminate. Where do those go?
> 
> Do they feed that round device at the top? Lightening arrester?


Yes and yes. :thumbsup:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

The main issue is tracing wires and how they connected boxes upstairs. The foyer breaker also does the porch lights, *one* of 3 newer looking lights in a 20ft away bathroom and a switch in the living room. there are some funky designs happening. :blink:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

I'll get some pics today of the subs and other gear they added


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Some more pics of the garage...


Exposed romex, dangling 220's etc...





























another sub added in garage




















Sub in the shed, still need to find out where the feed is


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Looks like money. :thumbsup:


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## woodchuck2 (Sep 18, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> Looks like money. :thumbsup:


X2, tell him to get out his wallet and you will get out the turd polish and make the best of it. You could make some good $$$ fishing those garage circuits in the walls and taking care of those sub panels. Couple days work there easy.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

I think I found your shed subpanel feed.....

The originating breaker, see the arrows: 










Note the tags on the wires, and double lugged to that Bryant breaker.

And look at the shed panel:









I am willing to bet that if you measure voltage at the shed between red and black you'll get zero or very close to it since they are on the same leg. :whistling2::laughing:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

mxslick said:


> I think I found your shed subpanel feed.....
> 
> 
> I am willing to bet that if you measure voltage at the shed between red and black you'll get zero or very close to it since they are on the same leg. :whistling2::laughing:


Thanks!

I was getting weird readings when I checked the shed voltage, thought it was my meter acting up.


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## AWKrueger (Aug 4, 2008)

Keep updating this while making changes/repairs. I find stupid homeowner stuff very entertaining. I wish I took some pictures of the way my house was when we moved in.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Where the hell are the home inspectors?


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## AWKrueger (Aug 4, 2008)

LARMGUY said:


> Where the hell are the home inspectors?


 The home inspectors I've run across usually keep thier "blinders" on so the home buyer can make the purchase and be happy. Kind of odd reasoning. You'd think the home inspectors would be there to make the home buyer aware of issues in the home. The guy who inspected my house didn't even pop a single panel in the drop ceiling in the basement. He did open the panel and take a look there though.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

zwodubber said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I was getting weird readings when I checked the shed voltage, thought it was my meter acting up.


Glad I could be of help. 

I had to look at the pics several times before I caught it.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

I would suggest that the entire house be demolished and re-built from scratch....


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Looks like money. :thumbsup:


No, it looks like the owner is going to go for the bare minimum and bust Zwo's 's about the price! :thumbsup:


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

electricalperson said:


> I seen more hack work done with CH tan handle panels than any other type of panel. Im not sure why its just weird. Personally i love cutler hammer products. Last night i had a job in a 2 family apartment that was filled with hack work but had CH panels. I needed a 15 amp tandem CH breaker from HD and it was 30 dollars


 What I find odd about Cutler-Hammer panels is that about half of the real-estate inside one is dedicated to the primary breaker. You'd think they could get by with 1/4 of the panel.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

zwodubber said:


> Well I found out why pretty quickly, it all started when they went to turn off the "hallway" breaker to change some fixtures. It didn't go so well.
> 
> Breakers were not properly labeled, double tapped breakers, live wires left hanging above drop ceiling, list goes on and on. And apparently wire color did not matter to any of them.
> 
> It was a rental property that went through about five "DIY" renters and it looks like each one added subpanels, fixtures and switches in their own special way.


Just another argument for using EMT. I keeps the hacks out to a point.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Just another argument for using EMT. I keeps the hacks out to a point.


You could require the building be wired with RMC and someone would come along and string lamp cord up right next to it. Making more rules never stops hack work from taking place.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

Peter D said:


> You could require the building be wired with RMC and someone would come along and string lamp cord up right next to it. Making more rules never stops hack work from taking place.



That would be funny if the 2011 code required all residential wiring to be in RMC. :thumbup:


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

BIGRED said:


> No, it looks like the owner is going to go for the bare minimum and bust Zwo's 's about the price! :thumbsup:


The more I find wrong with this entire house, I can see the owners are getting a little gun shy. I already heard "well everything works most of the time, is it really that bad?"

Not a good sign...


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

mxslick said:


> I think I found your shed subpanel feed.....
> 
> The originating breaker, see the arrows:
> 
> ...


you were absolutely right, checked it today. :thumbsup:


They also decided to start replacing pushbutton switches with flip up and down switches... well after replacing the one in the master bedroom on their own, the one at the other end of the house blew when she pushed it. These are for outdoor flood lights. Pulled the blown one to see what was going on back there and this is how it was wired (paint is covering the red, black and white color but is visible in the box). There are 5 floods on a 15A breaker.

I want to get this fixed for them so I have to pull the new switch and see how they wired it. After this I may walk away if they are going to be playing around with things...

Quick question, the blown button had 3 connections with no ground and the bare copper wire was tucked in the back of the box. What switch do you recommend I replace this with? Stick with a 3way and ground it? 

example (just using grainger for the reference picture)

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LEVITON-Wall-Switch-6LP34?Pid=search


The wiring in this place is completely whacked.

Blown switch











All the other switches and plugs here are on a seperate breaker.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

frankjoses said:


> I have never seen such type of wiring anywhere here in Boston city. No any***********uses the same color wire for the single switch. The Picture look so horrible. I think you need to change all you home electric system. There are different electrician in each and every cities of US. So why don't you choose the best one around your city to fix your home electric system. Reading your post and seeing the picture of the wiring I see the electric accident sooner or later. So, its better to change the you home electric system.


The first time I read this I was mad. Then I laughed. Then I got a little irritated. Then I laughed again.
I think he is suggesting you call an electrician Zwo.


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

sorry deleted double post


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Does the landlord not notice the changes made by the tenants after they move out?:huh: If I was the landlord I would be asking questions and would force them to have it inspected , if not it would be $ out of the security deposit in a heartbeat.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

meadow said:


> Does the landlord not notice the changes made by the tenants after they move out?:huh: If I was the landlord I would be asking questions and would force them to have it inspected , if not it would be $ out of the security deposit in a heartbeat.


Landlord did not even see the house throughout the tenant changes. They lived in Florida and had someone do the transactions for them. 

I had to walk on this one as they continued to try to change switches, etc... on their own. I gave them clear written warning and had them sign off on a document that I would not proceed.

If they want to play with the system while someone else works on it, let them have fun.


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