# Readily Accessible



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Going down some steps, and then down a hallway to reset a breaker does not violate the readily accessible definition, IMO. You don't have to climb ladders, or crawl over structural obstructions to reach the main electrical panel.

It might not be "convenient" but it still is "accessible" ....


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

I hate vague terms like that. It's up to the AHJ. It is acceptable here.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*5*

My inspector says he must be able to get to it in *5 secs* or less to be readily accessible. If not, it's just accessible.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> My inspector says he must be able to get to it in *5 secs* or less to be readily accessible. If not, it's just accessible.


Stop making stuff up. :laughing:


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Bulldog1 said:


> I hate vague terms like that. It's up to the AHJ.


I know what call I made on the situation, but it sparked some debate in the office. I am curious as to others opinions


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

manchestersparky said:


> The situation / Question :
> 
> Hydromassage Bathtub in Master bath on 3rd floor.
> Article 680.70 says that hydromassage bathtubs shall be protected by a readily accessible ground fault circuit interrupter.


The rule is intended to prohibit location the GFCI under the tub and having to remove panels to access the reset.

In hotels we just put a faceless GFCI on the wall beside the tubs.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*not*



BBQ said:


> Stop making stuff up. :laughing:


It's not made up. It's the ruling of the local ahj. really...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> The rule is intended to prohibit location the GFCI under the tub and having to remove panels to access the reset.
> 
> In hotels we just put a faceless GFCI on the wall beside the tubs.



That is exactly what we do. The faceless gfci is install near the wall switches for the bath area- usually right above it. If they need to shut it down it will work as a shut off also. It is also cheaper than the breaker.

To answer your question I don't think it matters how long it takes to reset the breaker as long as it is readily accessible. 

That would be like saying every breaker would need to be near the circuits they protect. It ain't necessary as long as there is a disconnect under the hydromassage tub.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> It's not made up. It's the ruling of the local ahj. really...


 Does he require every breaker to be 5 seconds from the loads?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> It's not made up. It's the ruling of the local ahj. really...












So your AHJ requires homes and businesses to remain unlocked?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*bp*

doesn't have to be right by load served. But, If there was a gfci behind a bunch of pot's and pans he would turn it down or a bunch of mops and old t-12 tubes blocking the panel then it wouldn't be readily either according to my inspectors rules


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

IMHO, I see no issue with the scenario. If that were an issue there would be a lot of non-compliant installs.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> It's not made up. It's the ruling of the local ahj. really...


I sincerely hope your AHJ never sprains their ankle...

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Pete*

What city you from Pete?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> What city you from Pete?


Tacoma.

Live in Dayton now.

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*sorry*

I'm sorry to hear that. That place is all screwed up. Kettering wants this, montgomery wants that, city of dayton wants this. No thank you. You should move back to tacoma if you ask me. Much nicer and laid back their.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Cletis said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. That place is all screwed up. Kettering wants this, montgomery wants that, city of dayton wants this. No thank you. You should move back to tacoma if you ask me. Much nicer and laid back their.


Thats not true. 

Here in Dayton we have a 10 second rule.

We are much more laid back.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Awg-Dawg said:


> Here in Dayton we have a 10 second rule.













Who is doing the walking?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*?*

Really, I may come by and work some more then. That would mean you could put a gfci behind soup cans. My guy to 6sec to get around the spagetti o's and such, so he red tagged me in kettering once.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Who is doing the walking?


Fat, one legged inspectors.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> Really, I may come by and work some more then. That would mean you could put a gfci behind soup cans. My guy to 6sec to get around the spagetti o's and such, so he red tagged me in kettering once.


You do realize that Dennis is right, if what you say is true you must be installing panelboards at each load. :laughing:

I guess that makes work for ya! :jester:


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

It seems some ,in my office, are hanging their hat on the capable of being reached quickly. This debate stemmed from me overturning another inspectors call.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Awg-Dawg said:


> Fat, one legged inspectors.:laughing:


I resemble that remark.. 

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*My*

My inspector was only concerned with disconnects including a/c, dishwasher, hot tubs, things of that nature. He wasn't concerned about breakers for general loads.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Pete m. said:


> I resemble that remark..
> 
> Pete


Not true, you dont have one leg:laughing:


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Awg-Dawg said:


> Fat, one legged inspectors.


 
OK who told you I have one leg ? :laughing:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Really, I may come by and work some more then. That would mean you could put a gfci behind soup cans. My guy to 6sec to get around the spagetti o's and such, so he red tagged me in kettering once.


If you put a stack of $50 bills in the way I bet you won't get turned down. :jester:

Pete


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Really, I may come by and work some more then. That would mean you could put a gfci behind soup cans. My guy to 6sec to get around the spagetti o's and such, so he red tagged me in kettering once.


 
He probably red tagged you because "You" were in Kettering.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> My inspector was only concerned with disconnects including a/c, dishwasher, hot tubs, things of that nature. He wasn't concerned about breakers for general loads.


But the rules in the NEC are the same for both.

Can you post your local amendment?


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

manchestersparky said:


> OK who told you I have one leg ? :laughing:


 
I assumed.

Because most of your arguments.......You don't have a leg to stand on:laughing:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*none*



BBQ said:


> But the rules in the NEC are the same for both.
> 
> Can you post your local amendment?


There is none. I think it was mainly this one inspector who sort of fudged things that were fudgable just to be an ass. He has got me for putting bulbs in that don't say PAR on, missing 1 panel screw, simple things of that nature. Luckily, he just retired.


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## Jim Port (Oct 1, 2007)

You could get to the breaker faster on your bike Ken. Saves all that walking.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Jim Port said:


> You could get to the breaker faster on your bike Ken. Saves all that walking.


:thumbup:


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Awg-Dawg said:


> I assumed.
> 
> Because most of your arguments.......You don't have a leg to stand on:laughing:


 
I do now ! I was just fitted for a wooden peg, but now the kitchen table needs a new leg :whistling2:


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Cletis said:


> My inspector was only concerned with disconnects including a/c, dishwasher, hot tubs, things of that nature. He wasn't concerned about breakers for general loads.


isn't there a cord on the tub, that being the disconnect.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*sort of*



mbednarik said:


> isn't there a cord on the tub, that being the disconnect.


Depends on the access panel with my inpector. If it was right there, easy to pull off and unplug he was fine. But, if it was some kind of a jury rigged contraption he would make me make my carpentar/GC make something quicker. Sometimes, they made the access on floor below ceiling to get that plug/gfci outlet which he didn't care for much but passed.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Pete m. said:


> If you put a stack of $50 bills in the way I bet you won't get turned down. :jester:


In this case I bet a six pack of Keystone would be appropriate. :laughing:


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

i have never seen a sixer of keith stone's brew, only 12, 18 and 30's.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

BBQ said:


> The rule is intended to prohibit location the GFCI under the tub and having to remove panels to access the reset.
> 
> In hotels we just put a faceless GFCI on the wall beside the tubs.



If the panel can be removed with out needing tools they let us put the gfi behind the panel here.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

BBQ said:


> In this case I bet a six pack of Keystone would be appropriate. :laughing:


Well I can be bought that cheap but other inspectors I know.... Not so much! 

Pete


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

BBQ said:


> But the rules in the NEC are the same for both.
> 
> *Can you post your local amendment?*



I think you knew the answer before you asked.....:laughing:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> In this case I bet a six pack of Keystone would be appropriate. :laughing:


Im pretty sure his stomach cant handle that expensive stuff.:laughing:


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

Pete m. said:


> Well I can be bought that cheap but other inspectors I know.... Not so much!
> 
> Pete


 A six pack?

Damn Inflation........:laughing:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> There is none. I think it was mainly this one inspector who sort of fudged things that were fudgable just to be an ass. He has got me for putting bulbs in that don't say PAR on, missing 1 panel screw, simple things of that nature. Luckily, he just retired.


Who was the inspector? I am personal friends with both of the inspectors in Kettering? 

Pete


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis????


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Pete m. said:


> Who was the inspector? I am personal friends with both of the inspectors in Kettering?
> 
> Pete


 
And the room remains silent ...................

Makes one go HUUMMMM ?:whistling2:


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

manchestersparky said:


> And the room remains silent ...................
> 
> Makes one go HUUMMMM ?:whistling2:


Well in his defense.... There was a PLUMBING inspector that retired recently.... 

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*inpector*



Pete m. said:


> Who was the inspector? I am personal friends with both of the inspectors in Kettering?
> 
> Pete


I don't live in kettering. I have worked their before. I was talking about my normal inspector in my town

I did a few jobs right there around wright pat AFB . I just remember the inspector was a pia more than normal..but we passed eventually. That was a while ago. Kettering tennis club I think?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> I don't live in kettering. I have worked their before. I was talking about my normal inspector in my town
> 
> I did a few jobs right there around wright pat AFB . I just remember the inspector was a pia more than normal..but we passed eventually. That was a while ago. Kettering tennis club I think?


I'm getting close to calling BS on ya Cletis. Unless you did a job at Wright Patterson AFB (which would be covered by the Corp of Engineers) I know , have known and taught classes to or with every inspector around the area. If they were "hard" on you then you had it coming. 

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*ok*

no, it's true. ask me a question about dayton only dayton people would know. I'll respond quick. Like road names, topography, rivers. Promise I won't google anything


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> no, it's true. ask me a question about dayton only dayton people would know. I'll respond quick. Like road names, topography, rivers. Promise I won't google anything


Wasn't a challenge.. If you say you worked around here I can't prove you didn't. AFAIK I could have inspected Your work at one point or another. Perhaps I was confused by some of your comments. Please accept my apologies.

But since you offered... What's my brother-in-laws name?

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*..?*



Pete m. said:


> Wasn't a challenge.. If you say you worked around here I can't prove you didn't. AFAIK I could have inspected Your work at one point or another. Perhaps I was confused by some of your comments. Please accept my apologies.
> 
> But since you offered... What's my brother-in-laws name?
> 
> Pete


Bob ?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh clits. Is sucks to get called out on your bull****. 
I am starting to think you might be some 13 year old punk


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Bob ?


Good guess! 

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*P*



sbrn33 said:


> Oh clits. Is sucks to get called out on your bull****.
> I am starting to think you might be some 13 year old punk


You really think a 13 year old punk has a pineapple and 20 amp single pole wadsworth in his garage ?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Conservative*



Pete m. said:


> Good guess!
> 
> Pete


Hate to say it, but, it sounds like you have a conservative family. Your name is Pete (uhhhh...thats on amusement park keychains..normal)

I would predict you have bob's, john's, mary's, sandy, dave, etc... in your family. I'm guessing no Sheniqua or Moon Zappa Units ?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Hate to say it, but, it sounds like you have a conservative family. Your name is Pete (uhhhh...thats on amusement park keychains..normal)
> 
> I would predict you have bob's, john's, mary's, sandy, dave, etc... in your family. I'm guessing no Sheniqua or Moon Zappa Units ?


Fair enough... And I will have to assume your name is actually Cletis, or maybe Roscoe... How bout Boss Hogg? Please tell me you weren't Daisy... 

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*internet*

Everything on the internet is real, there is no deceit that I can see


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Everything on the internet is real, there is no deceit that I can see


That I know to be true! 

Pete


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Bam*

Bam! It was Dewayne Jenkins You know him?


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cletis said:


> Bam! It was Dewayne Jenkins You know him?


He the one that retired?

Pete


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> Going down some steps, and then down a hallway to reset a breaker does not violate the readily accessible definition, IMO. You don't have to climb ladders, or crawl over structural obstructions to reach the main electrical panel.
> 
> It might not be "convenient" but it still is "accessible" ....


Seems to fit your code's definition of readily accessible :thumbsup:

Straight from the definitions in the NEC (2008)



> *Accessible, Readily* (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
> reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
> without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
> to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
> ladders, and so forth.


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