# Sq. ft bidding



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

If you bid "by the square foot" (please don't), that includes everything except decorative fixtures, paddle fans, and appliances. It would be typical for the electrical contractor to provide the bath fan and non-decorative fixtures, like keyless lampholders in the basement/attic/garage, etc. If you bid this way (please don't), please be sure that your scope of work clearly states "NEC minimum requirements" will be observed and clearly list anything else you're doing, like doorbells, how many, low voltage for thermostats, cable/telphone and how many and where, and anything else that's not otherwise required by code. Also state that any items not mentioned in the scope of work or otherwise required by the NEC will be result in additional fees which will require a change order to be signed.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I DO NOT do residential as well just curious for the poster.

Residdential guys when bidding a standard home, not some large custom house. Pretty much average house.

Do you bid by the opening?
Sq Ft?
Do a full take off.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

To be fair, some square foot bids do have "allowances" for decorative fixtures, and the customer pays the contractor whatever the fixture costs over the allowance. They normally pick from his catalogs or lighting supply house. For instance, the bid allowance for a bedroom light might be 20 bucks, and if they pick a 150-dollar paddle fan, they owe you 130 dollars plus the cost of a fan-rated box. I try really hard to stay out of the decorative fixture end of things, and wire any box that might possibly be a paddle fan now or in the future with a cheap fan rated box, like a Westinghouse FanMaster Jr or a Rayco SaddleBox. The flip side of that is, if the customer buys their own decorative fixture outright, you owe... offset the final payment less the amount of the allowance you had in the bid.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

You need to be doing 20 houses a month, or mega experience building track homes, to get involved with sq/ft pricing. That's cut throat game.

The people who do this type work, count wire nuts.

If your worried about your price, ask a couple builders what they alot per sq/ft for electrical, when selling a home. Then work backwards from there and see if you can make money at it.

FWIW


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I wish someone would explain how ft² pricing really works.

A 200a service costs the same, whether it's in a 1000 ft² house or a 4000 ft² house.

You need two SABCs, bath and laundry circuit, whether the house is 1000 ft² or 4000 ft².

AFAICT, square-foot pricing either prices you out of the arena if it's a small house, or forces you to lose money on the big ones.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> I DO NOT do residential as well just curious for the poster.
> 
> Residdential guys when bidding a standard home, not some large custom house. Pretty much average house.
> 
> ...


Knowing what the sq FT helps only to get the average amount of man hours,And the number of Home runs,,But even that can get thrown off ceiling heights and the number of can lights.
Also the type of can lights come into play as well standard is 6" cans with a white trim and a 60 watt flood lamp.

But the HO may want 4" cans those cost 3-5 times more and that will add to the number of lights.

And the latest curve ball is the number of Home runs that require AFCI breakers that can add about $1,500 on to the stock costs all by them selves.

So doing a full take off is the best way to go ,and you must write it into the quote that any changes in the scope of the work must be paid for as needed.

Welcome to the forum zigger215............:thumbup::thumbup:


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I wish someone would explain how ft² pricing really works.
> 
> A 200a service costs the same, whether it's in a 1000 ft² house or a 4000 ft² house.
> 
> ...




For those not familiar with Sparky's sarcasm, this is his best attempt at a strawman.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dnkldorf said:


> For those not familiar with Sparky's sarcasm, this is his best attempt at a strawman.


Then maybe you can _answer_ the question instead of _avoiding_ it.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Then maybe you can _answer_ the question instead of _avoiding_ it.



Been there, done that.

You don't understand how bidding this way works, nor will you ever.

You compare new resi track home, to doing service work and say stupid sh!t like, " what's a breaker cost per sq/ft? "

Good luck trolling this one.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dnkldorf said:


> Been there, done that.
> 
> You don't understand how bidding this way works, nor will you ever.
> 
> ...


Apparently you are incapable of answering the question then. This means you know less about bidding than I do.

But go ahead and respond. I'm done here.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I wish someone would explain how ft² pricing really works.
> 
> A 200a service costs the same, whether it's in a 1000 ft² house or a 4000 ft² house.
> 
> ...


Its been explained to you many times, you're just too old to understand new tricks. I bid sq ft. Quite often


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Just Guessing, I would think

In addition to the sqft number you add a service cost, fixture cost and any additional adders? 

I thought the sqft was just for the basics receptacles mandated by the NEC.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Apparently you are incapable of answering the question then. This means you know less about bidding than I do.


No, no,,, you're right.

Now blow our minds with your contractor expense list. We haven't seen that gem in a couple months..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Its been explained to you many times, you're just too old to understand new tricks. I bid sq ft. Quite often



How about providing a link to where it was explained? Every time this comes up, no one really explains it. They just make claims like this.


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## zigger215 (May 17, 2012)

How much are you guys putting in your pocket per 1400 sq ft home. On average I would say?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Dnkldorf said:


> No, no,,, you're right.
> 
> Now blow our minds with your contractor expense list. We haven't seen that gem in a couple months..



Here ya go:








Business Cost List

Stuff I need to buy from Home Depot.
My labor.


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## Service Call (Jul 9, 2011)

You can bid per sq. ft. If you've done a similar size dwelling. A 200 A service is a 200 A service. 1500 sq. ft. is 1500 sq. ft. no mater the layout. Now the difference is, I tell you $6 a sq. ft., here, maybe $10 sq. ft. in New York, or $25 in Alaska. Your going to have to do it the long way (take offs), to get a feel for doing sq. ft. pricing.


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## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

zigger215 said:


> How much are you guys putting in your pocket per 1400 sq ft home. On average I would say?


1.98 on a good day!:thumbsup:


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## jr360 (Dec 7, 2011)

Too many answers to that question!:no:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

zigger215 said:


> How much are you guys putting in your pocket per 1400 sq ft home. On average I would say?


close 4 grand.


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

I have a new home to bid plans on today,out of curiosity I am going to do a takeoff and sq ft bid and compare to see where they stand against one another.


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## zigger215 (May 17, 2012)

Well I live up here in Alaska and was honestly thinking of doing 7 bucks a sq ft plus materials? I'm a being WAY unreasonable there? I dont wanna screw the guy.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

zigger215 said:


> Well I live up here in Alaska and was honestly thinking of doing 7 bucks a sq ft plus materials? I'm a being WAY unreasonable there? I dont wanna screw the guy.


Who could possibly answer that? We have no idea what the plans look like.


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## zigger215 (May 17, 2012)

Pretty standard 1400 sq ft home, not building a space shuttle launch in the backyard or anything. Figured it was a straight forward question, well actually it is a straight forward question.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Item pricing has always worked out well for me.. I can use it in new work and remodeling work just by plugging in different numbers..

IMO. sq. ft. pricing can leave money on the table way too easily since not all houses are the same.. especially with service locations..


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## 30years_at_it (Jul 17, 2012)

*sq ft DON't*

Sq Ft only benefits the builder because he doesn't know how to estimate electrical. So if the novice were to sq ft and as MDShunk says"(please don't) in which I agree, how much do you figure for minimum code? Then for extra stuff, ie; ceiling fans, recess lighting, well pump, two heating zones instead of one, etc,etc? Then what if it is a 9 ' ceiling home or 10 or 12'? Takes more time for those.
Another question. What happens if something changes that causes a deletion. How do you credit that deletion back? Sq ft times what?
I have used a per item cost for years. I developed my own spreadsheet for items . For example 15 amp duplexes, 20 amp duplexes,15 amp switches,15 amp branch circuit, 20 amp branch circuit,200 amp overhead service entrance, 200 amp overhead underground service and on and on. 
I just plug my counts in and come up with a total. Ouila'
If materials change I can adjust the costs.

Another thought. Say the builder/ homeowner asks you how much to add extra receptacles. Would your answer be $$ per sq ft? Of course not. So learn your material costs and labor expectancy.

My two cents, but I might add I've never lost a penny on a electrical job!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

From having seen a fair amount of tv shows on Alaska as of the last few yrs,
( yes senator, I do thing that we are being lured into one location by the illuminati in order to more easily deal with us individualists....) I am of the opinion that it really doesn't much matter which way you charge for wiring a "house" in Alaska, since mostly from what I see they are all more or less homemade diy shacks anyway. Hell, trade for whiskey. Or a quarter ounce of buds.


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## Bluzman (Jun 5, 2011)

What about the idea of flat rate and time. I have read lots of arguments in the posts between people saying they can't price something becuase of overhead, and cost, and this and that. Well you could say what you use as a figure in man hrs to install a specific item, then anyone in any part of the globe could plug in there own labor price and multiply it to give them there total cost. ( labor cost) 
Granted a worker with 20 yrs experience can install something quicker then a green guy, but there must be a standard. In the long run I think it would work out.

does anyone use this method in a residential calc ? or is it mostly commercial work bid this way


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

30years_at_it said:


> My two cents, but I might add I've never lost a penny on a electrical job!


:laughing::laughing:Really bro!?:laughing:

















Welcome to the forum..:thumbup:


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

30years_at_it said:


> My two cents, but I might add I've never lost a penny on a electrical job!



Funniest post I've read this year......:001_huh::001_huh::laughing::laughing:


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## Davethewave (Jan 6, 2012)

zigger215 said:


> How much are you guys putting in your pocket per 1400 sq ft home. On average I would say?


There is only one way I know how to bid and that is by connection. A 1400 sq. ft house could have 5 can lights or 50 can lights. Every electrical floor plan will be different. I factor in drive time and adjust my /connection price add in the fixtures and overhead and run with it. Currently with 2011 NEC you are looking around $95/connection + fixtures. This number works for SF bay area. Alaska number may be different. If I was you I would stick with the IBEW work and leave the residential work for the Electricians that do it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Davethewave said:


> There is only one way I know how to bid and that is by connection. A 1400 sq. ft house could have 5 can lights or 50 can lights. Every electrical floor plan will be different. I factor in drive time and adjust my /connection price add in the fixtures and overhead and run with it. Currently with 2011 NEC you are looking around $95/connection + fixtures. This number works for SF bay area. Alaska number may be different. If I was you I would stick with the IBEW work and leave the residential work for the Electricians that do it.


Dave if you are going to continue to be a cheap date like that, please remove the /hawaii off your location, and stay the hell in California. Thank you.
Dummies like you ruin it for the rest of us...


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## Davethewave (Jan 6, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Dave if you are going to continue to be a cheap date like that, please remove the /hawaii off your location, and stay the hell in California. Thank you.
> Dummies like you ruin it for the rest of us...


 I should take the Cali off raise my rates and jump on a plane. Sounds like the business has sapped the "Aloha" right out of you.


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## Bluzman (Jun 5, 2011)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Someone had to get some Laughs going, the topic always seems to make people go nuts


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

zigger215 said:


> Well I live up here in Alaska and was honestly thinking of doing 7 bucks a sq ft plus materials? I'm a being WAY unreasonable there? I dont wanna screw the guy.


$9,800 in labor and they pay for the materials on top of that? 

I haven't done residential for decades, but from what I remember, I could do this by myself in 4-5 days of labor hours (not that it would be done in 4-5 trips). This is assuming a 1400 sq ft house is not going to have a lot of bells and whistles.

Seems like a pretty strong number, but we don't know what the hurdles are working up there. So, do you think that is a fair number?


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## zigger215 (May 17, 2012)

I feel like its a stron number too...guess that answers my question. Btw, done houses before so the IBEW pot shots can be done away with. I've just never bid one or been responsible for the pricing. Secondly, Alaska is pretty much just like everywhere else...hard to believe huh? Our material is SLIGHTLY more expensive and our standard of living and cost of living is a lot higher..afraid there aren't many homes around here you can trade whiskey for, unless you use the whiskey to get the home owner drunk first.


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## Voyager (Mar 4, 2010)

I just finished bidding a job. I used the square foot price from another similar project, added money for the change in price of copper wire, added for some high dollar fixtures and bath heaters the GC speced, deleted for a change in receptacles and switch count, and added for some additional reuirements on low voltage wiring like all was supposed to be in ENT all the way to the communication panel. I gave the GC a lump sum price not a square foot price. Changes will be priced per item. I am willing to live with this price.

I didn't do a line by line wire take-off and it saved me a lot of time.


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## jimmy21 (Mar 31, 2012)

zigger215 said:


> Well I live up here in Alaska and was honestly thinking of doing 7 bucks a sq ft plus materials? I'm a being WAY unreasonable there? I dont wanna screw the guy.


Why not just figure by how long you think it will take and see if its close to your sq/ft figure. Sq/ft bidding would probably work, but its not going to be as easy as just $X per sq/ft. I would think it would be more like 

$3,000 + ($4 sq/ft x 1.5 because its 2 stories) + (100 per light fixture x 27) + (200 for equipmentX) + (whatever else)

which starts to look more and more like a conventional bid. The problem with bidding by the sq/ft is that two houses could have equal sq/ft but one might just have really large rooms and the other might have lots and lots of smaller rooms. Maybe a more accurate way would be by the linear ft of wallspace. 

take what i say with a grain of salt because i don't have experience in this, just throwing out my thoughts on the subject


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## zigger215 (May 17, 2012)

The more I work towards a final number on these homes the more I realize that square foot bidding is very lazy, very inefficient and really does do anyone any favors...


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