# LED wall packs



## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

What LED replaces a 400w HPS wall pack??


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## markbrady (Jun 2, 2014)

Spark Master said:


> What LED replaces a 400w HPS wall pack??


https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-wall-packs-104w-400w-equal/


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

I had a bad experience with 1000bulbs.com. I would NEVER order from them again.


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## markbrady (Jun 2, 2014)

Good to know


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I use 1000bulbs a bit. rarely for fixtures though. I really,really like the ruud 400 PSMH from econolight. $200 and it is a decent quality fixture that does a great job. Econolight in general has really gone downhill lately though. Their service has degraded and the shipping sucks.
Still a good fixture though


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Spark Master said:


> I had a bad experience with 1000bulbs.com. I would NEVER order from them again.


You can't just say something like that and not tell us the rest of the story! :laughing:

What's the deal man?


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

I use 1000 bulbs all the time. Out sales rep makes everything easy for us. We do have a vendor account setup with them too. The AC Electronics LED wall pack is great!


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

sbrn33 said:


> I really,really like the ruud 400 PSMH from econolight.



Do they still send you a Kringle from O&H bakery with certain sized orders?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Maximumbob said:


> Do they still send you a Kringle from O&H bakery with certain sized orders?


Can't say I have ever got one of those.


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## Spark Master (Jul 3, 2012)

3D Electric said:


> I use 1000 bulbs all the time. Out sales rep makes everything easy for us. We do have a vendor account setup with them too. The AC Electronics LED wall pack is great!


 I support my local supply house, who treats us with respect. Leave the internet ordering to the hobbyist.


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## 3D Electric (Mar 24, 2013)

Spark Master said:


> I support my local supply house, who treats us with respect. Leave the internet ordering to the hobbyist.


My rep treats me with the utmost respect. As for the internet being for hobbyist, it is just like anything else, a tool that can be used to your advantage. I remember my old boss saying that an impact driver was the stupidest tool he had ever seen. I also remember an old co-worker of mine saying he remembered people complaining that wire nuts were terrible and hack installations. Only solder and tape would do. Embrace the internet because it's not going away. :thumbsup:


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## Glock23gp (Mar 10, 2014)

I am also interested in using led wallpaks but how do you justify spending over 2x the price of a MH fixture?









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

Glock23gp said:


> I am also interested in using led wallpaks but how do you justify spending over 2x the price of a MH fixture?
> 
> View attachment 57890
> 
> ...


Energy savings, cost of operation, and maintenance costs.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Glock23gp said:


> I am also interested in using led wallpaks but how do you justify spending over 2x the price of a MH fixture?
> 
> View attachment 57890
> 
> ...


Because they will pay for themselves in less than 5 years not including lamp changes.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

markbrady said:


> https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-wall-packs-104w-400w-equal/


Not sure how they came up with their claim that their 8,000 lumen LED equals 35,000 lumen. 

This is the specs on a Lithonia TWH 400W HPS
35,000 lm output / 468W input (50,000 lm lamp and 70.1% fixture efficiency)

Light fixtures are available in many different beam distribution patterns. It's not really up to energy retrofit LED sales to assume which part of spill over is a "waste". I suppose you could do it with a 350W LED fixture, but higher wattage LED ballasts are more vulnerable to failures than a coil and core ballast.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Electric_Light said:


> Not sure how they came up with their claim that their 8,000 lumen LED equals 35,000 lumen.
> 
> This is the specs on a Lithonia TWH 400W HPS
> 35,000 lm output / 468W input (50,000 lm lamp and 70.1% fixture efficiency)
> ...


Not to mention that a 350 watt LED would produce a massive amount of heat and require gigantic heat sinks. Otherwise it would catch on fire in short order.


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

MTW said:


> Not to mention that a 350 watt LED would produce a massive amount of heat and require gigantic heat sinks. Otherwise it would catch on fire in short order.












You're right. It will most likely have a temperature sensor to activate dimming to prevent electronic LED ballast or LED from frying. 

Outdoor lights get a break, because they're not used during daylight. It may not be possible to use LEDs indoors in heavy duty environment like a high roof aircraft hanger. It's like a sauna at fixture height. HIDs and incandescent lamps produce full output under these conditions without reduction in life and specialized amalgam fluorescent lamps can operate at high ambient. 

High power electronic power supplies are fragile, wimpy and have a limited calendar year life. They require a huge heat sink or fans to limit the temperature rise. If the ambient is 130F, they struggle. Motor drives require all sorts of protection like fast acting fuses and they will still fail if you were to have a direct short or attempt to start the motor across the line on load side. That's why its fairly common for the power supply in your plasma TV, computers, VFDs to fail, but you seldom have suddenly failure of coil and core ballasts or pole transformers. 

Coil and core ballasts are extremely reliable and larger ones are very efficient. A 1,000W HPS uses 1,080W input which indicates 94% ballast efficiency, a level of efficiency you see on high efficiency 4 lamp T5 ballasts.

Heavy duty ballasts like 215W VHO(used in outdoor signs), 400W or 1000W HID are always core and coil. There are electronic ballasts for them, but usually for grow light where you don't need a bucket truck to access. 

350W LED ballast in a hard to reach place is a _bad_ idea. 

LEDs depend on existing fixtures to have poor optical efficiency to appear good. The more efficient the optics, the less advantage LEDs have and the range of efficiency is huge. HID fixture can have a utilization from about 45% to 96%... but in the US, we don't really talk about optical enhancements with HIDs, huh? Here are some optically beautiful fixtures they have in the UK

A 70% 1,000W HPS will provide 91,000 lm with maintained performance of L80/20,000. 

www.abacuslighting.com/pdf/brochure-exterior-lighting.pdf


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