# 4 Way switch combination



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Not commercially available. Looks like you'll be cutting another switch box in.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

rondunbar said:


> Hi Guys
> Has anyone ever seen a combination switch over switch 4 way/single pole?
> I can't remember ever seeing one, but I don't think I've seen everything yet!
> Thanks Ron


I've never seen one. I'm sure such a device exists but I would be concerned about wire fill in the box if it is a single gang

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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm reexamining the situation now, if I hack out another 2X4 I can get a 2 gang box in, I'll still have to cut switch plate down on bot sides a little.. Looks like my only option.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Cut a box underneath. I know it’s oftened considered bad etiquette, but I see it done all the time, even in nice new houses.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Cut a box underneath. I know it’s oftened considered bad etiquette, but I see it done all the time, even in nice new houses.


Yeah that would probably be better than cutting the wall plate

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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

I have a chair rail below the box and a Volume control above. I could cut one in between existing box and volume control, but I think that will look lousy!


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

rondunbar said:


> I have a chair rail below the box and a Volume control above. I could cut one in between existing box and volume control, but I think that will look lousy!


Pic?

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

An oscillating tool makes notching out a stud rather easy.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> An oscillating tool makes notching out a stud rather easy.


I would refrain from notching out studs especially in a load-bearing wall

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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Cut a box underneath. I know it’s oftened considered bad etiquette, but I see it done all the time, even in nice new houses.



We do it that way in new construction all the time. I absolutely hate it and wish my boss would figure out a better way to switch stuff (less switches, use a stacker, etc). Personally I think doing that way looks like garbage but sometimes it is a necessity.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

electrokinetix said:


> I would refrain from notching out studs especially in a load-bearing wall


I notch load bearing studs all the time. If wood is in my way, I cut it out without reservation. No house ever fell down because there's a notch in one stud.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> I would refrain from notching out studs especially in a load-bearing wall


You keep talking silly.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> You keep talking silly.


What?? Are you saying notching out structural members does not weaken it? 

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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

MTW said:


> I notch load bearing studs all the time. If wood is in my way, I cut it out without reservation. No house ever fell down because there's a notch in one stud.


Not saying the house is going to fall down. I'm saying it's not the best option.

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> What?? Are you saying notching out structural members does not weaken it?


Anything you do could be considered weakening it. Every time you drill a hole in a stud or joist it weakens it.

Notching a stud is not going to affect anything.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

electrokinetix said:


> Not saying the house is going to fall down. I'm saying it's not the best option.


I see.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> Anything you do could be considered weakening it. Every time you drill a hole in a stud or joist it weakens it.
> 
> Notching a stud is not going to affect anything.


Drilling a hole in the inner third of the stud does little to weaken it. Notching out or drilling out the outer thirds does however.

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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

You're right that matching one stud would probably not compromise the entire structural Integrity of the building but it still does not change the fact that it's bad practice and bad workmanship

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This guy is silly. I think he would be better off at Mike Holt's.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> This guy is silly. I think he would be better off at Mike Holt's.


You're just saying that because you don't like my political beliefs. I actually went to college for Building Trades and part of my coursework involved carpentry and building code.

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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> This guy is silly. I think he would be better off at Mike Holt's.


And just because somebody criticizes something you say or do even if it's not based in fact it does not call for name-calling. I believe the term for that is troll

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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

The posting rules say I'm not able to post pictures. I'm not sue why.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> You're just saying that because you don't like my political beliefs. I actually went to college for Building Trades and part of my coursework involved carpentry and building code.
> 
> Sent from my A574BL using Tapatalk


I don't care about your political beliefs.

Notching a stud is perfectly fine, that's really all there is to it.

You clearly want to be a by-the-book little-goodie-twoshoes which goes over much better at Mike Holt's.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

electrokinetix said:


> And just because somebody criticizes something you say or do even if it's not based in fact it does not call for name-calling. I believe the term for that is troll


You have been a member here for a day and a half and already made 48 posts, I have been here for 11 years. Tell me more about how I am the troll.


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## MadSparky (Mar 2, 2018)

HackWork said:


> I don't care about your political beliefs.
> 
> Notching a stud is perfectly fine, that's really all there is to it.
> 
> You clearly want to be a by-the-book little-goodie-twoshoes which goes over much better at Mike Holt's.


It's called being a professional. This is clearly something that you are not

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

rondunbar said:


> The posting rules say I'm not able to post pictures. I'm not sue why.


Newer members have less privileges to stop people from spamming and such. You could host it elsewhere like at tinypic.com and link to it.


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

I've actually been a member here for ever. I used to have a different email and when I moved South I lost that email. I didn't know how to link the two so I just started over.
Any however, I will try to do it your way.
Thanks


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

rondunbar said:


> I've actually been a member here for ever. I used to have a different email and when I moved South I lost that email. I didn't know how to link the two so I just started over.
> Any however, I will try to do it your way.
> Thanks


Speak to the Admin Cricket, she will help you get back into your account. There is a Help forum that you can post in.

Back on topic, if they have a chair rail then it is probably a pretty nice place. I would just notch the stud a little bit and put in the 2-gang box.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

ah s**t...i had to run up to the
gas & sip for more pop corn.
Did I miss anything?


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## Pete E (Jan 2, 2018)

Do you guys have grid switches over there? 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_I..._Steel/index.html#Varilight_Grid_Plates_Steel


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Pete E said:


> Do you guys have grid switches over there?
> 
> https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_I..._Steel/index.html#Varilight_Grid_Plates_Steel


Pete

I was thinking that I once may have seen the 4 way 
switch with 2 other switches , very old "Intermatics"
or possibly "pushmatic" a few years back.(all stacked 
on top of each other in a single gang and wired in K&T)

what you posted reminds me of those.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

One time I needed to cut old work recessed lights in over an island. It pretty much had to be perfect. I probed the ceiling with my screwdriver and thought I was in the clear. I cut the sheetrock with the hole saw and I see that I'm about 1/3 of the way into one of the ceiling joists. I proceeded to keep cutting with the hole saw until it was out of my way. :thumbsup:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I used to work for a builder who seemed to 
LOVE step down (sunken) floor levels ...
I remember on one job the plumber and HVAC 
contractors were "battling" for areas to run thier
materials in the basement below.
they hated these sunken floors and the builder..
...well lets just say him & his brother didn't care 
about any of that...not their problem.

Between the HVAC contractor & the plumber they
hacked the s**t out of the floor joists and come 
time for the owners to take possession of the new 
home , they noticed the floors below certain spots 
would creak with nasty noise and even seem to sink
a bit when walking over them....

Here come da judge ..here come da judge


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

They used to make 4-way Despard switches, which would have been a good option, but I can't find them in current online catalogs.


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> They used to make 4-way Despard switches, which would have been a good option, but I can't find them in current online catalogs.




Do you remember the manufacture?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

rondunbar said:


> Do you remember the manufacture?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lol. As far back as I know, they said Eagle on them, but I think that brand got squashed at some point and P&S just put their P&S branding on them. I've seen them with Leviton, GE, H&H, Cooper, and just about everything else at some point or another.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> rondunbar said:
> 
> 
> > Do you remember the manufacture?
> ...


Wasn't Eagle, Cooper which is now Eaton?


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> lol. As far back as I know, they said Eagle on them, but I think that brand got squashed at some point and P&S just put their P&S branding on them. I've seen them with Leviton, GE, H&H, Cooper, and just about everything else at some point or another.




I”ll keep searching the web. Maybe someone will have one. 


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> They used to make 4-way Despard switches, which would have been a good option, but I can't find them in current online catalogs.


Both Eagle and P&S used to make them but I get other verison over here in Philippines but it made by Fuji IMO not the best of all.,, 

but the other issue you will run into is box fill that will stop it in the track depending on numbers of cable/conductors in the box. 

I would notch it or get 4 sq smartbox and screw it on the wall and use the mudring to fill it. so there is couple way you can fix this.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

rondunbar said:


> I”ll keep searching the web. Maybe someone will have one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe you can get hit with NOS ( New Old Stock ) sometime some electrical supply store or some older hardware store may have something on shelf collecting dust.


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

frenchelectrican said:


> Both Eagle and P&S used to make them but I get other verison over here in Philippines but it made by Fuji IMO not the best of all.,,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was going to due that today, but I ran into another problem, the radio bracket to the left of the switch won’t will not allow a 2 gang smart box to fit!
I don’t have a box fill problem as there are only 2-14/3 in the box. I only need to add another 14/2 if I feed the new light at the light. 
Ron


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Put an RR7 relay or RIB in the fixture box and use a 1091 despard momentary toggle at the tough spot and 1081 regular momentary toggle a the other switch locations.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

drspec said:


> Wasn't Eagle, Cooper which is now Eaton?



Yes. 

And Slater was taken over by P&S. If you are doing a device change in a house (ivory to white, for instance) and happen to be changing from old Slater devices to new P&S devices, you'll notice the devices are essentially the same. 

As for Despard, it too is now part of P&S. But a Despard switch is not an option that any sane electrician would use in this day and age. :laughing:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> Put an RR7 relay or RIB in the fixture box and use a 1091 despard momentary toggle at the tough spot and 1081 regular momentary toggle a the other switch locations.


Talk about over complicating things.


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

MTW said:


> Talk about over complicating things.




I don’t know what all those part numbers are. Take me a week or so to research that opinion! 


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

There's a solution to every problem. Some are simple. Some... not so much. 

I always told new guys there's 10 ways to solve any problem. A couple waste time, a couple waste material, a couple are non-compliant, and a couple look bad. That leave two ways. Pick one and get it done.


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

MDShunk said:


> There's a solution to every problem. Some are simple. Some... not so much.
> 
> 
> 
> I always told new guys there's 10 ways to solve any problem. A couple waste time, a couple waste material, a couple are non-compliant, and a couple look bad. That leave two ways. Pick one and get it done.




Cute!


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

rondunbar said:


> Cute!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I always tell my guys. No such thing as we can’t do it!


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## rondunbar (Oct 8, 2012)

*Problem solved!*

For all those who have replied to my post 4 way switch combination/ single pole, I have solved my problem!

I have eliminated the 4 way switch!!
Thanks to all
Ron


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