# Panel recomendations



## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi, this is my own house but I am an electrician so I believe this is fine to post questions about it. This is for Canada but I was under the impression brands are fairly cross border.

Looking for panel brand recommendations for the following 200A service upgrade I will be doing. House is for resale so I am more about cost - anything is better then the current stablok I have. Current story: is I have 100A stablock main service running from the alley behind my house, low over the entire garage roof, then a overhead back to the garage distribution panel, so close to the deck you could stand up on your toes and lick it. This actually works out kind of nice because I can build the new mast and panel on the alley side of the garage, run a sub feed back to the house but hopefully underground, then the utility only has to come once and run 10 feet from the alley because my main is now a sub. That means I can either connect the old panel up for the day or switch out to the new panel if I have time/energy.

Anyways,

Main 200A panel: This panel can be small as I only have lights and plugs, the new 200A sub, and the garage door. What would be a good brand for this? There is a supplier with good prices on General Electric.

The house Sub, still 200A as 95% of the load is off this, including the hot tub. This I was thinking square D because the breakers are so widely available and cheap. I don't need any AFCI thankfully.

Thoughts?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I’d go with anything PON other than siemens


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

If keep the stablock why change it? It’s worked 50 years just fine


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## Slay301 (Apr 23, 2018)

But home line for all 6 panels You are putting in.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I just put in a homeline at my house, and the quality of the cabinet seemed far superior than Siemens and GE. GE is probably the lowest cost option and would be fine for resale. That being said i just became a big fan of plug on neutral.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

STAY AWAY FROM SIEMENS


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I like Square D products but not the plug-in neutral panels. The breakers flop around too much. They just seem to be poorly constructed. I think homeline is a good choice. Square D / QO if you can afford it.


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't think we have home line here, never heard of them.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

!Tom said:


> I don't think we have home line here, never heard of them.


Sure ya do buddy.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Majewski said:


> Sure ya do buddy.


E-bay


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Easy said:


> E-bay


Nah. Just look for the dumb white panels.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

!Tom said:


> I don't think we have home line here, never heard of them.


It's Square D homeline. 

It's the 'economy' version of the QO type. 

There are TONS of them around here, they seem ok but I like the QO better.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

micromind said:


> It's Square D homeline.
> 
> It's the 'economy' version of the QO type.
> 
> There are TONS of them around here, they seem ok but I like the QO better.


It's an investment but a good one. Why not go with a quality load center for your home. Tell the lady of the house she has to go with Formica counter tops instead of marble.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Easy said:


> It's an investment but a good one. Why not go with a quality load center for your home. Tell the lady of the house she has to go with Formica counter tops instead of marble.


Nothing about homeline is “poor quality”


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

micromind said:


> It's Square D homeline.
> 
> It's the 'economy' version of the QO type.
> 
> There are TONS of them around here, they seem ok but I like the QO better.


Ah thanks, I thought you meant brand. I don't exactly go panel shopping so not familiar with the lines, I pick up the brand im told too so.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Majewski said:


> Nothing about homeline is “poor quality”


I agree they are good quality for sure.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

!Tom said:


> Ah thanks, I thought you meant brand. I don't exactly go panel shopping so not familiar with the lines, I pick up the brand im told too so.


I'm not sure if Canada has different selections than we have in the states. Often times you can get deals on panels that come with breakers at a great price but maybe some Canadians will chime in on this. Good luck ..


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

micromind said:


> It's Square D homeline.
> 
> It's the 'economy' version of the QO type.
> 
> There are TONS of them around here, they seem ok but I like the QO better.


Sq D QO


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

I've never had any issues with Siemens brand products. I was a Square D guy until I switched to a supplier that doesn't carry them.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

ohm it hertz said:


> I've never had any issues with Siemens brand products. I was a Square D guy until I switched to a supplier that doesn't carry them.


Its the afcis and gfcis….. afci specifically


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

backstay said:


> Sq D QO
> View attachment 162158


I've seen that on every brand..........GE being the worst..........


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

micromind said:


> I've seen that on every brand..........GE being the worst..........


God ge sucks…..


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Majewski said:


> STAY AWAY FROM SIEMENS


WHY?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

EJPHI said:


> WHY?


I said above, try reading.


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

EJPHI said:


> WHY?


OR SHOULD I ASK WYE?


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Majewski said:


> I said above, try reading.


I see it is the Arc Faults specifically. What about them upsets you?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

EJPHI said:


> I see it is the Arc Faults specifically. What about them upsets you?


it looked at me funny


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

backstay said:


> Sq D QO
> View attachment 162158


i have had to fix that QO problem more times than i can count


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Go shopping. Sometimes the box stores are good but their shelves are kind of bare right now. Do your breaker count and make sure all your breakers are available.

Homeline, Eaton, QO, Siemens, I really have no preference. Believe it or not, the last two resi panels I bought were Eaton from Rona. Nobody else could touch their price and they’re Lowe’s under a different name.


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## Bluenose for rent (Nov 6, 2020)

I like Siemens or Eaton or homeline cause of the pnl layout and bus stab design. I’ve been using squareD lately cause that’s what has been available, and I really don’t like the layout of them, also if you don’t bend your wires just right on the bigger breakers they wanna pop of the bus when you do anything else in the panel.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

Bluenose for rent said:


> I like Siemens or Eaton or homeline cause of the pnl layout and bus stab design. I’ve been using squareD lately cause that’s what has been available, and I really don’t like the layout of them, also if you don’t bend your wires just right on the bigger breakers they wanna pop of the bus when you do anything else in the panel.


breakings popping off isnt a problem if you arent working live.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Bluenose for rent said:


> I like Siemens or Eaton or homeliness cause of the pnl layout and bus stab design. I’ve been using squareD lately cause that’s what has been available, and I really don’t like the layout of them, also if you don’t bend your wires just right on the bigger breakers they wanna pop of the bus when you do anything else in the panel.


I have found that it is a good idea to take my klines and squeeze the buss prongs together to tighten them up, also apply lots of new Electrical grade grease every time


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## Bluenose for rent (Nov 6, 2020)

Working live is how I stay awake at work


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

Ok so definitely square d for the house sub.

Thankfully no AFCIs as house is from the 60's.

I gotta pre buy everything before I apply for a permit because of shortages. I heard there are currently no meter bases in town so that could take a few months to resolve anyways. (I live in a small city north BC). Every week it's something else. We finished off the last suit of a condo with two 75m roles of 14/2 from home depot, last in town. There has been stuff on order for almost a year.


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Majewski said:


> it looked at me funny


Somebody does that to me and I stick my tongue out at them


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

!Tom said:


> Main 200A panel: This panel can be small as I only have lights and plugs, the new 200A sub, and the garage door. What would be a good brand for this? There is a supplier with good prices on General Electric.
> 
> The house Sub, still 200A as 95% of the load is off this, including the hot tub. This I was thinking square D because the breakers are so widely available and cheap. I don't need any AFCI thankfully.
> 
> Thoughts?


For the main I would look at something with feed-through lugs. I believe Sq D is somewhat limited in this regard.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

I have installed Eaton BR panels, Square D QO and Homeline, Siemens, and GE panels.

Never install GE panels.

QO panels are good for new installs, because the neutral lugs are all near the main breaker. It sucks to do them on service upgrades because most of the time the neutrals almost all need to be extended... which takes time and costs money.

Siemens panels I haven't installed many of lately, mainly due to availability. 

I've done lots of homeline panels, like, 100+ in the past few years. Very similar to the Eaton BR and Siemens. No issues with them whatsoever. 

And lastly Eaton BR panels. We used to use them almost exclusively for our service upgrades but the homelines are cheaper and basically the same quality, and more readily available for us here.

If I were to recommend one to go with, it would be a homeline because they're better to work with for retrofits. They include multiple small ground bars which is great for panel replacements, because I've never had to splice wires when using these panels (I have done so for convenience but not out of necessity).


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

Kevin said:


> I have installed Eaton BR panels, Square D QO and Homeline, Siemens, and GE panels.
> 
> Never install GE panels.
> 
> ...


Gotta love that tubing across the panel cover, haha


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

I love the plug on neutral panel for main panels just for the fact that you have a neutral/ground bar running the entire length of the breaker section on both sides. Even if you don't use plug on neutral breakers it is super convenient.


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## !Tom (Dec 8, 2013)

joe-nwt said:


> For the main I would look at something with feed-through lugs. I believe Sq D is somewhat limited in this regard.





joe-nwt said:


> For the main I would look at something with feed-through lugs. I believe Sq D is somewhat limited in this regard.


Did a quick search on feed lugs, looks like there's 3 different kinds. I would still want the house panel on a breaker for several reasons. I have never seen any of these. But now that I think of it I have never seen a 200A breaker on a 200A panel so I see we are going somewhere that I had a blind spot. It would be great if I could do this without a disconnect and a gutter: as cool as that would look in my garage... $$$factor


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

MotoGP1199 said:


> Gotta love that tubing across the panel cover, haha


Yeah, pain in my damn ass the whole time. I had the tube behind it and already had half the wiring done before I noticed... took 2 guys to get the bloody thing out from behind It because the panel was too heavy to screw back up myself lol

Its temporary where it is. Homeowner is having the basement finished I told him how to get an ABS line over there that won't cost an arm and a leg (there's a laundry sink not too far away where that tube goes.)


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

!Tom said:


> But now that I think of it I have never seen a 200A breaker on a 200A panel so I see we are going somewhere that I had a blind spot.


Typically the 200A branch breakers take up 4 spaces (8 total) on either side of the bus. Once the wire is attached to the breaker, it never moves again and makes working on that side of the panel a PITA.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Kevin said:


> I have installed Eaton BR panels, Square D QO and Homeline, Siemens, and GE panels.
> 
> Never install GE panels.
> 
> ...


Why on Earth would you put in a new panel with a bunch of empty spaces and load it with tandem breakers?


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## Greg Sparkovich (Sep 15, 2007)

I'm surprised by the Siemens hate.
I use the Siemens PL (no longer available but I bought 20 of them before they discontinued the line), PN, and CU panels exclusively. I only wish the neutral buses were longer, but with PN panels, that isn't very relevant anymore.
I like the fact that they all come with a copper bus bar (CU is actually tin coated copper like the QO panels) and are guaranteed for life (never had a problem with them, so I actually don't care).
They come with separate ground bars installed near the top of the panel, so they are out of the way and there are no bare wires near exposed terminals at the breakers. There is lots of headroom, so the panel is easy to sort. For all the idiots who insist on short wires, there is lots of room for junctions when doing replacements.
Siemens AFCI/GFCI/DF breakers are inexpensive and function properly (I've replaced Eaton AFCI breakers that didn't find a shared neutral, so **** them forever. Also, why did they buy Challenger other than to gain market share from a popular company that sucked???).
(At least where I live) You can get Siemens breakers everywhere -from every local supply house to HD/Lowes to hardware stores.
I like QO for the quality and copper bus, but they are expensive and I'm not into carrying a ton of proprietary breakers from a bunch of bands (I keep a couple GE, Square D (QO + vanilla), Eaton (BR + CH), TB, CH, others in my van already).
Homeline panels are are cheap in both senses of the word. They are better than the original HOM panels that were a cheapo, proprietary Home Depot exclusive.
GE breakers are also (more) difficult to find, wobble and even pop out, and burn almost as often as challenger).


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## Viggmundir (Sep 13, 2019)

!Tom said:


> Did a quick search on feed lugs, looks like there's 3 different kinds. I would still want the house panel on a breaker for several reasons. I have never seen any of these. But now that I think of it I have never seen *a 200A breaker on a 200A panel* so I see we are going somewhere that I had a blind spot. It would be great if I could do this without a disconnect and a gutter: as cool as that would look in my garage... $$$factor


You have to watch what the max stab rating is for the panel. It will vary by brand. A Siemens 40/80 200A panel has a max stab of 200A (and they have a 200A breaker, QN2200R), but others are sometimes limited to a max stab of 150A or 175A.

Just checked my Schneider data sheets, Homeline has a branch 200A breaker as well, CHOM2200BB.


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## BleedingLungsMurphy (10 mo ago)

!Tom said:


> Thoughts?


Ask your wholesaler what they have in stock. Get prices for everything you need and then you can actually make a decision if budget is your main concern. Everyone gets different pricing. Do you have a wholesaler that sells used electrical equipment? The one near me is almost always overstocked with basically new breakers for cheaper than anywhere else. Usually overstock from large jobs.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Everyone has their likes and dislikes as far as brands go. Find a brand that you can get that all of the breakers are available without a bunch of shopping or drama.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Going_Commando said:


> Why on Earth would you put in a new panel with a bunch of empty spaces and load it with tandem breakers?


Something to do with thats all we stock in the van... also not my decision on what to buy. Sometimes we need all tandems, Sometimes we dont, but buying all tandems just makes more sense for us.... homeowners are also impressed with the empty spaces when we're done. 

I do tell the boss to buy full size breakers when I have a list and know I have space, he just doesn't want to stock full size breakers in the van due to space issues in the van.


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