# Metal Garage



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Tyraps.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I would run pvc across myself, put in 1-1/4'' and then later he can pull your six out and install #2 when he starts getting serious about that wood shop / furniture factory he always wanted to put out there. A disconnecting means nearest the point of entry is going to be required for the number of circuits exceeding one multiwire branch, so you could mount a safety switch on the outside and nipple thru to interior load center. 
Drive a ground rod, isolate the neutral bar from the case and treat the load center like a sub panel. Pull a ground thru the pvc. Run a gec from ground bus to the rod. All good to go.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Metal buildings are all different. Are there standard metal studs going in? How thick is the inside framing? I also probably would use PVC- 3/4" or even 1/2" if your circuits are going to be run in separate conduits


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Metal buildings are all different. Are there standard metal studs going in? How thick is the inside framing? I also probably would use PVC- 3/4" or even 1/2" if your circuits are going to be run in separate conduits


If it has sheetrock on the inside of the walls , me , being a cheapo and all, who also owns a couple of Greenlee stud punches and a bag of them red nm bushings for metal studs, well......................


Romex is King!


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> If it has sheetrock on the inside of the walls , me , being a cheapo and all, who also owns a couple of Greenlee stud punches and a bag of them red nm bushings for metal studs, well......................
> 
> Romex is King!


Yeah I can see that but I was thinking a shop and that can change things. That is why I asked about the framing-- nm may be the answer

Don't you know Southwire has chastised us for using their Trade name Romex. Come on Mac get with it...You would think that they would like the advertising.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Don't forget to throw a couple of conduits in the trench for future. One for low voltage-phone-security-intercom. One for line voltage like flood lights switched from the house. 

I wish I would have put something out to my garage for compressed air. There have been a lot of times I wished I had an air line in my basement to the compressor in the garage.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

Thanks guys. Would you install a 60 amp breaker at his main panel then at the subpanel drop down to a double pole 30 amp for the heater and a single pole 20 amp gfci for the lights and receptacles?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yeah I can see that but I was thinking a shop and that can change things. That is why I asked about the framing-- nm may be the answer
> 
> Don't you know Southwire has chastised us for using their Trade name Romex. Come on Mac get with it...You would think that they would like the advertising.



A pox upon Southwire! They have ruined the suspension in my newest van!


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

Yea he claims he is putting up sheetrock in the near future so that's why I said nm. Sorry BTW I'm the one who originally said Romex ha-ha. Would I need to tyrap cable at grommets?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Secured within 8" of single gang boxes, and 12'' of multi gang boxes. Supported by holes in studs. Vertical secure every 4ft- 6 inches.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would definitely have more than one circuit- one for lighting and one for the receptacles. A 5000 watt heater will take 30 amps


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

so would you run a 60 amp breaker off the pain panel with #6 wire to the disconnect on outside of garage. nipple through to subpanel and install 1 30 amp double pole for the heater , and 1 single pole 20 amp gfci for lights and receptacles. then run a #8 bare wire from subpanel to ground rod on outside? keeping the neutral bar isolated from ground?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

SparkyJ said:


> so would you run a 60 amp breaker off the pain panel with #6 wire to the disconnect on outside of garage. nipple through to subpanel and install 1 30 amp double pole for the heater , and 1 single pole 20 amp gfci for lights and receptacles. then run a #8 bare wire from subpanel to ground rod on outside? keeping the neutral bar isolated from ground?



Almost. 20 amp standard for receptacles, with a gfi outlet at first one. 15 amp standard breaker for lights. And one circuit for receptacles isn't much of a workshop, but you get what you pay for.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

yea I probably definitely need to have two separate 120 volt breakers , especially with GFCI's on the receptacles. I have 6 receptacles and 2 additional ones for garage doors(future). Do the receptacles for the garage doors need to be GFCI protected?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

SparkyJ said:


> yea I probably definitely need to have two separate 120 volt breakers , especially with GFCI's on the receptacles. I have 6 receptacles and 2 additional ones for garage doors(future). Do the receptacles for the garage doors need to be GFCI protected?


Yes if your code cycle is 2008 or later and you do not have amendments removing that requirement.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

SparkyJ said:


> Do the receptacles for the garage doors need to be GFCI protected?


 I guess you hate the code book--- the gfci needs to be readily accessible also.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Check your distance 75' you'll need to factor de rating.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

RGH said:


> Check your distance 75' you'll need to factor de rating.


Code for this if you don't mind. I am still using the 08 though, and we don't need to worry about vd as far as I know as far as code goes.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

haha I have the codebook right here, my main concern was feeding the garage. Wasn't sure what the "best" way to do that was. I really do appreciate all of the advice guys. I will just install a GFCI breaker to cover the receptacles.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

The garage is about 30'-40' away from the main loadcenter.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

RGH said:


> Check your distance 75' you'll need to factor de rating.


I agree with Mac-- 75' will not affect the voltage drop, imo.

Actual I just did a vd calc and you are good with #6 at 75'


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## FreddyB (Mar 6, 2016)

Interesting, please share your experience. I'm interested to know how you end up doing it.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I agree with Mac-- 75' will not affect the voltage drop, imo. Actual I just did a vd calc and you are good with #6 at 75'


I figured as much but with out buildings its best to check. Load demand is minimal per his post , heating or welding could be issues on future demand.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

will do!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

RGH said:


> I figured as much but with out buildings its best to check. Load demand is minimal per his post , heating or welding could be issues on future demand.


Go with my 1-1/4 and then let future demands pay for it when the time comes........


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The expense is in the trench.

So, go with PVC.

UF only makes real sense if you're trenching using a 'knife trencher.'

Also known as a plow-trencher.

&&&&&&&

Lay down multiple raceways // chases so that this is the one and only time you need to trench.

PVC is cheap.

Place the run deeper -- so deep that there is no chance of future damage.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

I am thinking of not putting a disconnect on the outside of the building and letting my subpanel serve as my disconnecting means per NEC 225.32. I will be bringing PVC up and through right there at the entrance doorway and placing the subpanel on the inside beside the door. As long as it states that it is "Suitable for Service Equipment" I should be ok.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

SparkyJ said:


> I am thinking of not putting a disconnect on the outside of the building and letting my subpanel serve as my disconnecting means per NEC 225.32. I will be bringing PVC up and through right there at the entrance doorway and placing the subpanel on the inside beside the door. As long as it states that it is "Suitable for Service Equipment" I should be ok.



That works fine. When you have subterranean Formosan termites like some places do, it is best to bring risers up outside the structure and let the plumber worry about infestations.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

Would I be ok to just run 1 ground rod and run #8 bare copper from the subpanel to ground rodsince this is a feeder of 60amps?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

SparkyJ said:


> Would I be ok to just run 1 ground rod and run #8 bare copper from the subpanel to ground rodsince this is a feeder of 60amps?


8 would work except you have to protect 8 from physical damage, whereas #6 you can attach directly to the exterior wall siding without any conduit or other protection.


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## SparkyJ (Feb 10, 2016)

ahhh true that, I didn't think about that. Thank you sir


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> The expense is in the trench.
> 
> So, go with PVC.
> 
> ...



PVC is cheap especially with this short a run. Does sound like you have done this a few times.


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