# Folding allen keys



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I have a bunch of smaller folding allen key sets with plastic handles, but the one I use the most is the larger (up to 3/8") with metal handle Klein set that was originally my father's. I normally don't care for old tools, but this set has been bullet proof. I have been using it for over 20 years and never held back, but it's still going strong.

My only concern is if it does break, will the model available today hold up like the old one?

I'd like to get a backup, does anyone know of one like this that might be better than what Klein is offering today?

A picture of what I am looking for, this is Klein's newest model:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

The Klown are still good. What you really need are socket drives.

I’m guilty of not paying attention to torque specs. I have socket drives but I use them in a drill. I should probably be using a torque wrench. Even breakers have a torque setting.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Most of the Klein stuff that they always made in the USA is still good, so I bet these are still good. 

I like Bondhus for hex keys, this is their specialty, they are made in USA, and they are not expensive. Unfortunately they seem to be getting away from metal handle fold-ups going to plastic, but they still make metal handle foldups: 

http://bondhus.com/pages/metal-fold-ups 

Bondhus had a ball end metal handle fold up, looks like that might be history.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> What you really need are socket drives.


I have them, full sets. Also sets of nice Bondhus T-handles. 

Never use them, I always use the folding set. 

I keep a 3/8" allen with a socket adapter nearby so I can put it in my impact to quickly open and close lugs or bugs in certain situations. But this is something in which I still use the hand tool way more often than the power tool.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Most of the Klein stuff that they always made in the USA is still good, so I bet these are still good.
> 
> I like Bondhus for hex keys, this is their specialty, they are made in USA, and they are not expensive. Unfortunately they seem to be getting away from metal handle fold-ups going to plastic, but they still make metal handle foldups:
> 
> ...


The Bondhus are $15, the Kleins are $12. Both are very cheap, IMO. Which is better?

FWIW, I don't care for the ball end, especially on aluminum lugs.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I have them, full sets. Also sets of nice Bondhus T-handles.
> 
> Never use them, I always use the folding set.
> 
> I keep a 3/8" allen with a socket adapter nearby so I can put it in my impact to quickly open and close lugs or bugs in certain situations. But this is something in which I still use the hand tool way more often than the power tool.


Like someone else said, the Klein’s are good. Klein still makes good stuff, it’s just the inconsistency that drives us crazy. They also make junk.

For the record, I bought the set in your picture six months ago.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> The Bondhus are $15, the Kleins are $12. Both are very cheap, IMO. Which is better?


I bought a number of Bondhus tools because they make every oddball hex tool you could imagine and they sell them onesies, you don't have to buy full sets. 

I bought a few of their ball end hex screwdrivers and a set of their stubbies. I also have a couple of their L-sets. No failures yet. I abused the stubbies on a really poorly designed motor mounting bracket, but never really pressed the others. 

I figure hex tools is pretty much all Bondhus does, so they probably do it well. They claim they use a proprietary steel that's stronger than the usual chrome vanadium.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> FWIW, I don't care for the ball end, especially on aluminum lugs.


I really like the ball end for mechanical assembly, but it can damage an aluminum lug. The ball end L wrenches are great because you can get it finger tight with the ball end and finish it off with the short end. 

Of course you will be tightening that aluminum lug with a properly calibrated torque wrench, so it does not matter if your foldup is ball end.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

After dropping my Klein set down into a deep steam pit filled with boiling water 20 years ago I bought an Eklind set. 
Haven’t broken or lost it yet. But the 3/8 is worn out so maybe I’ll grab a new Klein one.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

The screw jiggled out of my Klein set and left allen turds floating in my tool box.:vs_mad:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

CoolWill said:


> The screw jiggled out of my Klein set and left allen turds floating in my tool box.:vs_mad:


Mine fell into the snow and disappeared. I didn’t feel like waiting six months for the snow to melt so I bought a new set.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

I've had 2 sets of these for 25 years. Other than wearing a few out, they're still intact. When you wear the ends out, just cut or grind the worn part off.

http://eklind.biz/20xxx.htm


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I have an old Eklind one and a few of the small yellow handled Klein sets. I recommend the Eklind as well.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I have the metal folding set since I got into the trade. I also have individual keys and socket keys. I do have some t-handle, but never use them, they sit at the shop now.

Without a doubt I would go with the metal folding handle again if they got lost or worn out.

Cheers
John


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I found the folding type to be too short for some applications. Still have them in the tool box in the shop, just don't use them much.

For everyday use, I bought a cheap, as in $4 cheap set of longer L type an a clearing house about 15 years ago. They appear to be stainless of some type, and the keys themselves still look like the day I bought them. The plastic holder has also held up, but all the markings have worn off so I can't tell you what brand they are. They are long enough to reach into any equipment I've run into.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

My Klein folding set is the go-to tool that I always use. I have the T-handles in the van for when I need a longer one or sometimes when splice something hot, like service conductors. But I mostly use the impact gun for that now.

I typically only use the 5/16" and 3/16" ones.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

I have a folding set or two but, this Harbor Freight set gets the most use.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I just bought that one a few weeks back, needed some after I came out of Costco to find my truck had been relieved of all of its contents.

They are just as good as they have always been.

Just bought the T handle units yesterday.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a few Elkind folding sets that are still going strong.

As splatz said the specialty ones from Bondhus really hold up.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

I think I always had the Elkind sets, although my socket keys are Craftsman. 

I haven’t carried the folding sets in years. I keep the socket keys in my main bag, and the loose “L” keys with the plastic holder in my daily carry bag. I don’t like the fact that it takes two folding sets to replace one loose key set. And I like how compact the loose key set is.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HertzHound said:


> I think I always had the Elkind sets, although my socket keys are Craftsman.
> 
> I haven’t carried the folding sets in years. I keep the socket keys in my main bag, and the loose “L” keys with the plastic holder in my daily carry bag. I don’t like the fact that it takes two folding sets to replace one loose key set. And I like how compact the loose key set is.


It's the type of work that I am using it for that makes it perfect for me. The 5 keys in the folding set will take care of any lug in any panel I install, or any Polaris connector or splice reducer/bug/etc. So I can just take that one tool with me and know it will do the job.

When dealing with a specialty piece of equipment that might have various sizes, then I will get the set of T-handle or socket keys from the van, whatever fit that exact job better.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> It's the type of work that I am using it for that makes it perfect for me. The 5 keys in the folding set will take care of any lug in any panel I install, or any Polaris connector or splice reducer/bug/etc. So I can just take that one tool with me and know it will do the job.
> 
> 
> 
> When dealing with a specialty piece of equipment that might have various sizes, then I will get the set of T-handle or socket keys from the van, whatever fit that exact job better.


To each his own. Using folding hex heads inside panels, spells knuckle buster for me. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

I hardly ever use my folding Allen wrenches anymore. Most of the time I just use 3/8 drive Allen sockets with a socket adapter in my impact. For Resi work and aluminum wires, that's all I ever need. I typically do a Resi service upgrade without using a ratchet or allen wrench sets. The impact gets them as tight as I would get them by hand. I wouldn't dream of cutting overhead services over live without an impact for the lugs anymore.
Of course I check all of my connections with a torque wrench after because the code requires it :whistling2::no:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> To each his own. Using folding hex heads inside panels, spells knuckle buster for me.


The hex key goes into the lug very far, so it will never slip out. You just have to use your head and you will never hurt your knuckles.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> The hex key goes into the lug very far, so it will never slip out. You just have to use your head and you will never hurt your knuckles.


Your a knuckle head. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> The hex key goes into the lug very far, so it will never slip out. You just have to use your head and you will never hurt your knuckles.


Zac is installing the same type of services I am, and those all in ones have almost no room for a folding hex key. You can't hardly move the thing a 1/2" before it is hitting some part of the enclosure.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> Your a knuckle head.


 Peter D will be here soon to tell you that it is "you're" and "you're" a fornicator.



Switched said:


> Zac is installing the same type of services I am, and those all in ones have almost no room for a folding hex key. You can't hardly move the thing a 1/2" before it is hitting some part of the enclosure.


 I can't wait for that disaster of a state to fall into the Pacific and send a huge wave to Hawaii for Mikey to boogie-board to NJ on.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Peter D will be here soon to tell you that it is "you're" and "you're" a fornicator.
> 
> I can't wait for that disaster of a state to fall into the Pacific and send a huge wave to Hawaii for Mikey to boogie-board to NJ on.


With the 2020 code going into effect your gonna see a lot of all-in-one panels popping up nationwide.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

Switched said:


> With the 2020 code going into effect your gonna see a lot of all-in-one panels popping up nationwide.


I think it will take a lot of convincing for the NE to transition to outdoor panels. I see it being meter mains that take over.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> With the 2020 code going into effect your gonna see a lot of all-in-one panels popping up nationwide.


Never. It will probably be amended. If it does get here we would use meter-mains or just a meter and separate disco. 

It's a really, really bad idea to put a breaker panel outside, for many reasons, and no one is going to start doing that where it isn't already done. I don't know why it's done that way in California, I assume it's like strapping ceilings with furring strips in New England. "_Just cause it was always done that way_".


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Forge Boyz said:


> I think it will take a lot of convincing for the NE to transition to outdoor panels. I see it being meter mains that take over.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk


They are not all that bad. If you have a 200a unit with distribution, you can still install a sub-panel to the interior of the dwelling. It also makes it easy to install anything exterior, such as a well or detached building, solar, generator transfer, etc.

The only real problem with them is they are made to fit into a standard 16" on center stud bay, they really need to be made like 24" to 36" wide, so you can have a main breaker, and full on 40 to 60 spaces for distribution of full size breakers. 

But yeah.... when it is 20 below I get they don't want to go outside and reset a breaker, but that is what a sub panel is for. After all, with a disconnect on the exterior, they will all be sub panels now anyway.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

$10 today at big orange. 
To bad they didn't have the tire pressure gage I was looking for.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

JoeSparky said:


> I hardly ever use my folding Allen wrenches anymore. Most of the time I just use 3/8 drive Allen sockets with a socket adapter in my impact. For Resi work and aluminum wires, that's all I ever need. I typically do a Resi service upgrade without using a ratchet or allen wrench sets. The impact gets them as tight as I would get them by hand. I wouldn't dream of cutting overhead services over live without an impact for the lugs anymore.
> Of course I check all of my connections with a torque wrench after because the code requires it :whistling2::no:


Have you thought about using one of these sets?

https://www.amazon.com/Kwokker-Standard-Screwdriver-Magnetic-Furniture/dp/B07YKHZ24L/ref=sr_1_43

I like the way you don't have to use an adapter to convert to square drive, then to the socket bit.

I would like to find a set with just the fractional bits of a better quality. That looks like a junky brand.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Have you thought about using one of these sets?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Kwokker-Standard-Screwdriver-Magnetic-Furniture/dp/B07YKHZ24L/ref=sr_1_43
> 
> ...


I have a couple sets like this from Lowes, they were on sale for $2 - they work well in the Wera Kraftform James Bond Edition screwdriver. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-8-Piece-Shank-Screwdriver-Bit-Set/1000235187

Kobalt are suprisingly decent. 

I bought this DeWalt DWHT70265 set for the maintenance shop at one of my customers, not bad for $20










... it's not exactly the right set of sizes but something similar could be really nice.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I have sets of 1/4" and smaller. It's the 5/16" that I am looking for.

There are a lot on Amazon, but they seem like crap. They are advertised for putting Ikea furniture together lol. All of the good reviews are from homeowners who used one bit to put his shelf together. The real pros who used them complain of the sizes being wrong and the paint coming off making it worse lol.

I'd like to find a namebrand one. But until then the socket adapter and hex socket is fine.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I have sets of 1/4" and smaller. It's the 5/16" that I am looking for.
> 
> There are a lot on Amazon, but they seem like crap. They are advertised for putting Ikea furniture together lol. All of the good reviews are from homeowners who used one bit to put his shelf together. The real pros who used them complain of the sizes being wrong and the paint coming off making it worse lol.
> 
> I'd like to find a namebrand one. But until then the socket adapter and hex socket is fine.


You could get the Bondhus and you can buy just the one you want. 

http://bondhus.com/pages/hex-end-power-bits 

guarantee it's under $10 for the 5/16 3" bit you want.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> You could get the Bondhus and you can buy just the one you want.
> 
> http://bondhus.com/pages/hex-end-power-bits
> 
> guarantee it's under $10 for the 5/16 3" bit you want.


Perfect, I did not know that Bondhus made it, I could not find any brand name. I guess because it's an odd search term.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Peter D will be here soon to tell you that it is "you're" and "you're" a fornicator.


It is "you're" and I doubt Zac is a fornicator, but I could be wrong.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I assume it's like strapping ceilings with furring strips in New England. "_Just cause it was always done that way_".


:no:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> :no:


Then what reason is it still done there today and nowhere else?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Then what reason is it still done there today and nowhere else?


The primary benefit is has is it prevents cracks from developing in ceilings when joists warp and twist.

I believe the practice is also popular in Quebec and parts of Ontario as well.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> The primary benefit is has is it prevents cracks from developing in ceilings when joists warp and twist.
> 
> I believe the practice is also popular in Quebec and parts of Ontario as well.


The rest of the world doesn't have issues with those cracks, so it sounds like it's done "_just cause it's always been done this way in New England (and Quebec, and parts of Ontario)_".


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> The rest of the world doesn't have issues with those cracks, so it sounds like it's done "_just cause it's always been done this way in New England (and Quebec, and parts of Ontario)_".


You're the expert. :no:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> You're the expert. :no:


Not by any means.

I just prefer to know the reasons why I do something, other than because someone else said to do it that way because it's the way it was always done.

Next will you tell me that conduit in houses in Chicago save lives?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Not by any means.
> 
> I just prefer to know the reasons why I do something, other than because someone else said to do it that way because it's the way it was always done.
> 
> Next will you tell me that conduit in houses in Chicago save lives?


I don't know the origin or why it continues, but I do see that particular benefit to doing it. We have cheap production builders here too and I know they wouldn't spend an extra nickel on something unnecessary or unneeded if they don't have to. That would be the first thing they would cut out to save money, but they haven't.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I don't know the origin or why it continues, but I do see that particular benefit to doing it. We have cheap production builders here too and I know they wouldn't spend an extra nickel on something unnecessary or unneeded if they don't have to. That would be the first thing they would cut out to save money, but they haven't.


Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't seem to make any sense. They *can* cut it out, and they would be left with the same installation that is performed in the entire rest of the country, and most of the world. 

I am just making an assumption here, but I would think the only reason that they don't stop doing it is because it would be looked down upon by the local population who thinks that is the only way to do it, and therefore make it look like shoddy work- which would effect their profit.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't seem to make any sense. They *can* cut it out, and they would be left with the same installation that is performed in the entire rest of the country, and most of the world.
> 
> I am just making an assumption here, but I would think the only reason that they don't stop doing it is because it would be looked down upon by the local population who thinks that is the only way to do it, and therefore make it look like shoddy work- which would effect their profit.


It's quite possible, but the new construction housing market is so hot here right now that they could cut it out and the houses would still sell just as fast as they do now. 

So I think you should come here and talk some sense into them. :vs_cool:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> It's quite possible, but the new construction housing market is so hot here right now that they could cut it out and the houses would still sell just as fast as they do now.
> 
> So I think you should come here and talk some sense into them. :vs_cool:


I don't think they would listen to reason. I think people like to follow someone else's lead in order to feel warm and safe, that is why so many say they always install exactly to code.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> I don't think they would listen to reason. I think people like to follow someone else's lead in order to feel warm and safe, that is why so many say they always install exactly to code.


No doubt tradition has a lot to do with it. 

I would be happy if they stopped doing it, it would making installing recessed lights in new houses a whole lot easier.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> No doubt tradition has a lot to do with it.
> 
> I would be happy if they stopped doing it, it would making installing recessed lights in new houses a whole lot easier.


It might make installing old fashioned recessed lights in new construction a bit easier. But for old work, being able to snake wires both ways is awesome.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> It might make installing old fashioned recessed lights in new construction a bit easier. But for old work, being able to snake wires both ways is awesome.


It does have that benefit for sure, any old work can be done in half the time or less, especially recessed lights.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The main reason for strapping was because lumber was uneven and shimming is esaier with strapping. But strapping actually may save money: 



Tom Silva said:


> Here in New England, we call those 1x3 strips “strapping.” Their use goes back many years, to the days when lumber widths weren’t standardized. Builders nailed strapping perpendicular to the underside of joists as a way to bridge those differences and make their ceilings flat. Nowadays, lumber sizes are much more consistent, and most builders throughout the country have no problem simply screwing drywall directly to the underside of joists and rafters. That way does take less time and use less material, but the tradition of strapping ceilings still remains strong among builders in parts of New England, for the following reasons.
> 
> Strapping creates a narrow space to run electric wires and supply pipes perpendicular to the joists, which makes life easier for plumbers, electricians, and remodeling-minded homeowners. It adds stiffness to the floor or roof framing. It supports drywall seams better because the face of a 1x3 is much wider than the edge of a 2x, so there’s less chance of the screws missing the wood or crumbling the drywall. And, as in the old days, strapping in combination with shims makes it possible to flatten sagging or uneven ceilings.
> 
> ...


from https://www.thisoldhouse.com/ideas/to-strap-or-not-to-strap-ceiling-question


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MTW said:


> The primary benefit is has is it prevents cracks from developing in ceilings when joists warp and twist.
> 
> I believe the practice is also popular in Quebec and parts of Ontario as well.


It’s used as sound bar too. If two people are fornicating upstairs, the noise doesn’t transmit.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

99cents said:


> It’s used as sound bar too. If two people are fornicating upstairs, the noise doesn’t transmit.


That is usually metal Z-channel or similar used to de-couple the framing from the sheathing. I thought wood strapping transmitted noise thru it pretty much just the same as if it wasn't there.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

2" strapping is common here and it's actually great to work with. It cuts down on the perforations in the vapor barrier on exterior walls and ceilings. Only wires through the barrier are for outside devices. All the rest of the installation remains inside the vapor barrier. 4x4 boxes and plaster rings can be mounted to the strapping or screwed through the back to the studs giving you more options for positioning devices. 

The carpenters have to work with you on the wall/ceiling transition; the top wall strap and the edge ceiling strap need to be notched to allow cables to pass through and you will use protection plates in this area. 

Supposedly, in addition to the points outlined in the strapping article, the dead air space created also has an R value. Window and door frames have to be accounted for.

All in all I don't mind 2" strapping.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I guess I've wandered a bit off topic.....


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

joe-nwt said:


> I guess I've wandered a bit off topic.....


Don't worry about it... everyone else has too. Every thread seems to go off topic, most talking about this fornicating thing.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I like the bondhus folders better then anyone's metal handles, they have the HF5 with that goes to 3/8".


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

My folding Allen wrench sets always end up all twisted sister. I ain't exactly all that strong either, I imagine most of you guys must have experienced how the case of the thing gets all bent up. They always do that for me.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> My folding Allen wrench sets always end up all twisted sister. I ain't exactly all that strong either, I imagine most of you guys must have experienced how the case of the thing gets all bent up. They always do that for me.


Nope, not at all. And I am much stronger than you.


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## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

You must want these want for set screws for things like bit extenders, hole saws, and other hardware and such because I know you're aware of the torque requirements for electrical connections. :biggrin:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> My folding Allen wrench sets always end up all twisted sister. I ain't exactly all that strong either, I imagine most of you guys must have experienced how the case of the thing gets all bent up. They always do that for me.


I know, I also hate when I snap off the 1/4" hex when I am picking my teeth with it.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> My folding Allen wrench sets always end up all twisted sister. I ain't exactly all that strong either, I imagine most of you guys must have experienced how the case of the thing gets all bent up. They always do that for me.


I think if you twist them while straight you can mangle them if you go full gorilla, but if you have the key at 90 degrees to the folding handle, they will hold up OK.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Weaklings..........


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> I think if you twist them while straight you can mangle them if you go full gorilla, but if you have the key at 90 degrees to the folding handle, they will hold up OK.


Hmmmm, I would think the opposite since you have so much more torque when the handle is at 90 degrees.

Tell me your line of thinking.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Hmmmm, I would think the opposite since you have so much more torque when the handle is at 90 degrees.
> 
> Tell me your line of thinking.


The only way to get the equivalent torque while straight would be to either use an open end wrench on the allen key, or grab the whole set with a some channellocks. I imagine grabbing with pliers might mangle them.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Hmmmm, I would think the opposite since you have so much more torque when the handle is at 90 degrees.
> 
> Tell me your line of thinking.


Straight you don't have the leverage to generate as much torque, but the force is directed at the sheet metal in a way that the sheet metal is weak. 

If the handle is open all the way and it's straight in line with the wrench, you're twisting the sheet metal handle, and it's easy to deform that way. 

If the handle is open half way so it's at a 90* with the wrench, one side of the handle is pulling straight on the pin, the other side of the handle is pushing straight on the pin. The sheet metal isn't being twisted, it's hard to deform that way. 

It's kind of like the OSB web in a longspan joist is easy to twist but hard to crush. 

Straight you don't have the leverage to generate as much torque, but the force is directed at the sheet metal in a way that the sheet metal is weak.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Straight you don't have the leverage to generate as much torque, but the force is directed at the sheet metal in a way that the sheet metal is weak.
> 
> If the handle is open all the way and it's straight in line with the wrench, you're twisting the sheet metal handle, and it's easy to deform that way.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying.

But torque is put on the metal frame in both instances. The torque is applied in different ways, but there is a massive amount more torque put on it when using it at 90 degrees. 

The reason why I wanted a set as good as the ones I have now is because I have really used them hard in the 90 degree position over the years and the metal frame is still perfect.

I don't think a human can put enough torque on it with his hands to distort the frame with the key opened all the way to the straight position, just my opinion.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

HackWork said:


> I understand what you are saying.
> 
> But torque is put on the metal frame in both instances. The torque is applied in different ways, but there is a massive amount more torque put on it when using it at 90 degrees.
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is macmikeman isn't human. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B-Nabs said:


> So what you're saying is macmikeman isn't human.


Now all of a sudden you are going to believe what he says? :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

He never mentioned which brand he was using, he certainly didn't twist up the same set of Kleins that I am talking about by using them straight with screwdriver-level torque.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

HackWork said:


> Now all of a sudden you are going to believe what he says? :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> He never mentioned which brand he was using, he certainly didn't twist up the same set of Kleins that I am talking about by using them straight with screwdriver-level torque.


Nah just kidding around. 

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## 3rdUserName (Nov 23, 2018)

I got this racheting/folding allen key set from kings county tools on Amazon. Its intreasting the way in how it works (guess I still can not post pics from this account) but its 25 bucks and if you are doing alot of repetitive allen bolt setting in smaller sizes I would recommend it. But not for the bigger stuff. It comes with a 1/4" drive folding rachet and the biggest allen is 1/4". Kind of cool, kind of gimmicky as well but it does get use and does work on 90% of the applications I have tried it on. The customer service is impeccable. Check it out.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

3rdUserName said:


> I got this racheting/folding allen key set from kings county tools on Amazon. Its intreasting the way in how it works (guess I still can not post pics from this account) but its 25 bucks and if you are doing alot of repetitive allen bolt setting in smaller sizes I would recommend it. But not for the bigger stuff. It comes with a 1/4" drive folding rachet and the biggest allen is 1/4". Kind of cool, kind of gimmicky as well but it does get use and does work on 90% of the applications I have tried it on. The customer service is impeccable. Check it out.


I have that. Or I had it. I completely forgot about it until reading your post just now. I think I threw it away, too heavy and large for what it was worth. From what I remember, it was very gimmicky. Just use your impact gun.

Mine looked a little different, no rubber insert on the side. I believe a different company name as well. This was 10-15 years ago.

EDIT: This is the one I had:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Yet they believed not the Word. 













No vice employed, no machinery, no overtork, just lousy product. 


Now get thee behind me Satan............


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Southeast Power said:


> I have a folding set or two but, this Harbor Freight set gets the most use.




I have 25 year old craftsman that I use. Alan jacks are nice because buy 2 and you have every metric and SAE at your fingertips but they suck ass to use. First choice for me is T-handles, then come the 3/8” drive which are nice for setting torque on lugs.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> Yet they believed not the Word.
> 
> No vice employed, no machinery, no overtork, just lousy product.


 I bet I know how you bent this. 

You did this 


```
nut
[-]
 | 
 | driver 
 | 
 | 
 O 
| | 
| | handle 
| | 
| |
 O------------ driver
```
rather than this


```
nut
[-]
 | 
 | driver
 | 
 | 
  O==========O
    handle
```
If the driver shaft is inline with the handle, you can twist the handle. If the driver shaft is at a right angle to the handle, it isn't going to twist. 

If you want to go ahead and post this as a macmikeman tip of the day I'll settle for a 10,000 reward point royalty.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> I bet I know how you bent this.
> 
> You did this
> 
> ...


Is this what you were talking about the last time?

Because if so, then you are very correct.

If you put the keys on the unused side on a right angle and use them as the handle to twist, then that will definitely twist the metal body.

Keeping the keys on the unused side inside of the metal body and using the body on a right angle as the handle to turn the key is the way it should be done, and it won't twist the metal body.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

splatz said:


> If you want to go ahead and post this as a macmikeman tip of the day I'll *settle for a 10,000 reward point royalty*.



I was looking at that too, I've got five points to go


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Is this what you were talking about the last time?
> 
> Because if so, then you are very correct.
> 
> ...




Yes, I should have broke out the ASCII art sooner to make it clear.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> Yes, I should have broke out the ASCII art sooner to make it clear.


Yeah, using the handle like a screwdriver is what I thought you meant.

Opening up the back set of keys to turn it is a whole new ballgame with lots of torque to twist the body.


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