# Travelers=PROBLEMS!



## hayan453 (Jan 22, 2009)

and im not talking about 3-way switches... i just dont understand why these guys even try.. they do the dumbest things.. too lazy to get longer 8/32 so what do they do? long self tapping screws... cut the EMT pipe too short no problem just let it hang in the coupling.. and i dont think they ever heard of a screw gun before so they take almost all day using a screw driver... the list goes on...  and im not talking about all travelers... just the majority here... ok im done venting


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## Adam12 (May 28, 2008)

What are you talking about?


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## hayan453 (Jan 22, 2009)

Sorry i guess i shouldve gave a little more info.. Im in the IBEW and travelers are electricians in our union that "travel" to other states for work... and i was just sharing my view on some of them..


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

That's an easy tempation when you have no real investment in the job. 50% of that is the guys are probably travelers for a reason (nobody wants them) an the other 50% is that they're likely to never see your local or that town again in their life.


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

hayan453 said:


> Sorry i guess i shouldve gave a little more info.. Im in the IBEW and travelers are electricians in our union that "travel" to other states for work... and i was just sharing my view on some of them..


 
It is simple. If you are IBEW and they are working on the same job chances are they are IBEW also and the rest is history as they say.

What can be learned from this thread? Don't hire anyone who is a member of the IBEW :laughing:


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

jwelectric said:


> It is simple. If you are IBEW and they are working on the same job chances are they are IBEW also and the rest is history as they say.
> 
> What can be learned from this thread? Don't hire anyone who is a member of the IBEW :laughing:


 
Funny, in NYC they say no backwoods NC boys should be hired.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

randomkiller said:


> Funny, in NYC they say no backwoods NC boys should be hired.


Nobody anywhere cares what anybody in NYC says about anything, ever. Least of of all the boys down in NC.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Can I come on this forum and not have too look at this union CRAP?????
I am starting to think you union guys are doing this on purpose.
I am stick of having union issues crammed down my throat everytime I log on here


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## hayan453 (Jan 22, 2009)

Then dont log on! haha... and come on NC the IBEW is the best union in the WORLD.. :thumbup:


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

hayan453 said:


> and im not talking about 3-way switches... i just dont understand why these guys even try.. they do the dumbest things.. too lazy to get longer 8/32 so what do they do? long self tapping screws... cut the EMT pipe too short no problem just let it hang in the coupling.. and i dont think they ever heard of a screw gun before so they take almost all day using a screw driver... the list goes on...  and im not talking about all travelers... just the majority here... ok im done venting


 
What are you talking about-Do you furnish this or is this something the contractor is supposed to furnish.


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## regieleeroth (Feb 27, 2009)

retired 7373 said:


> What are you talking about-Do you furnish this or is this something the contractor is supposed to furnish.


pretty sure that a cordless drill is on the tool list for Hawaii... how'd they get sent out without one? 
I work for a large West PA contractor who supplies all power tools (like always) but there's been talk of buying a 12v Dewalt cordless w/ a 1/2" chuck for every man, then it's your responsibility... would certainly help with jobsite efficiency, and no more of that last-man-to-the-gangbox-gets-the-Crapsman-with-no-reverse. That's my favorite game.


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## jwelectric (Sep 28, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> Can I come on this forum and not have too look at this union CRAP?????
> I am starting to think you union guys are doing this on purpose.
> I am stick of having union issues crammed down my throat everytime I log on here


Is this not common for a union worker? To damn sorry to turn a screw driver so grab a drill and bugger up the screw head so it can not be removed by a real electrician. 

I am proud to say that here in NC our electricians use the proper tool and are willing to teach a bunch of union dudes that can’t turn a screw driver how to do it right.

Southern bred and Southern born and the unions can stay above the Mason Dixon Line or watch the South rise again.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

jwelectric said:


> Is this not common for a union worker? To damn sorry to turn a screw driver so grab a drill and bugger up the screw head so it can not be removed by a real electrician.
> 
> I am proud to say that here in NC our electricians use the proper tool and are willing to teach a bunch of union dudes that can’t turn a screw driver how to do it right.
> 
> Southern bred and Southern born and the unions can stay above the Mason Dixon Line or watch the South rise again.


I am on your side dude 

Notice that everyone giving you a hard time don't even have a lic.They work for someone else,so what does that tell you.....

Actually the original poster is from Hawaii,I think that the problem is with the locals there and the travelers are showing them up now he is jealous.

When I was in Hawaii the destroyer I was on went into dry dock.The local union shipyard workers screwed our ship up so bad they brought guys in from the Philly shipyard and our captain banned all local hawaiian workers from our ship,Well the philly boys got us back on schedule by working 24 hours a day redoing the crap the locals screwed up,too much pineapples and pakalolo for them idiots


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## retired 7373 (Feb 28, 2009)

jwelectric said:


> Is this not common for a union worker? To damn sorry to turn a screw driver so grab a drill and bugger up the screw head so it can not be removed by a real electrician.
> 
> I am proud to say that here in NC our electricians use the proper tool and are willing to teach a bunch of union dudes that can’t turn a screw driver how to do it right.
> 
> Southern bred and Southern born and the unions can stay above the Mason Dixon Line or watch the South rise again.


JW electric a drill is a real labor savor plus it saves your wrist. Maybe you , but not everybody bugger's up the screw head and there is not much skill involved in using either a screwdriver or a screw gun. One is just alot faster than the other.

retired


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

i see a lot of hack crap like that by nonunion electricians as well.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Travelers are the last choice when the hall is empty,not so lately.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> Can I come on this forum and not have too look at this union CRAP?????
> I am starting to think you union guys are doing this on purpose.
> I am stick of having union issues crammed down my throat everytime I log on here


Calm down, this thread was posted in the wrong forum, no biggie. If you see there's something in any thread you don't want to read just don't read it and move on.


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## hayan453 (Jan 22, 2009)

"bugger up the screw head"?? so you dont know how to use a screw gun? if you use the right bit you wont have to worry about damaging the screw.. :thumbsup: if you dont know how to use a screw gun you should stay a do-it-yourselfer.. *by the time you finish manually screwing in a screw to install a light fixture, you'll already be about 4 fixtures behind.. which is always the case with you guys.. just cause we chose to use a screw gun to save costs on labor and make good use of our time doesnt mean we dont know how to use a screw driver.. do you still use flint and steel to start a fire to get dinner going?  and as far as travelers showin us up :laughing: ..having pride in your work is something you guys have to learn.. 
*


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

hayan453 said:


> .having pride in your work is something you guys have to learn..


Right...like shoving a piece of MC cable into a plastic old work box, right? :laughing:


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## Shaffer87 (Feb 11, 2009)

regieleeroth said:


> pretty sure that a cordless drill is on the tool list for Hawaii... how'd they get sent out without one?
> I work for a large West PA contractor who supplies all power tools (like always) but there's been talk of buying a 12v Dewalt cordless w/ a 1/2" chuck for every man, then it's your responsibility... would certainly help with jobsite efficiency, and no more of that last-man-to-the-gangbox-gets-the-Crapsman-with-no-reverse. That's my favorite game.


 
12 volt... thats for bitches... :no:


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## hayan453 (Jan 22, 2009)

It was for a friend Peter D, come on now ...nice background check haha! and 12 volt?? 18v Makita is all i work with :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

hayan453 said:


> It was for a friend Peter D, come on now


True...good point...I always save my really hack work for friends too. :laughing:


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## hayan453 (Jan 22, 2009)

i knew that one would come back to haunt me.. haha


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## regieleeroth (Feb 27, 2009)

the 12volts 1/2" chucks are light, cheap, and versatile, (and replaceable) from the contractor's point of view... if ya need something ballsier, run a cord and use a plug-in for the big stuff. Plus not very tempting to a thief... and way easier on my severe case of tennis elbow, haha.... ouch.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

At my count there are more non-union members here than IBEW members.
I will not get into this argument as it is a waste of time, but I will make one statement.

When my IBEW apprenticeship program was comeplete, I had to get a state Journeymans card to work as a JW and get paid as a JW.
How many non-union shops have all their personnel licensed? My point is that the IBEW wanted to be sure they had qualified licensed electricians in the field. That to me is a positive thing.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> My point is that the IBEW wanted to be sure they had qualified licensed electricians in the field. That to me is a positive thing.


Which brings up another point. A license generally doesn't mean diddly squat. It means you were able to pass an exam - it says nothing about ones abilities. Furthermore, I've met more than a few people (of the older generation) who "knew someone" and was able to get their license without ever taking a test or doing an apprenticeship. I have almost no faith in the licensing system.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Which brings up another point. A license generally doesn't mean diddly squat. It means you were able to pass an exam - it says nothing about ones abilities. Furthermore, I've met more than a few people (of the older generation) who "knew someone" and was able to get their license without ever taking a test or doing an apprenticeship. I have almost no faith in the licensing system.


The same can be said of ANY license.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Celtic said:


> The same can be said of ANY license.


Precisely.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Precisely.


Without some sort of recognized standard, anarchy ensues.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Without some sort of recognized standard, anarchy ensues.



This is where the permit and inspection process and the CONTRACTORS liability comes into the discussion.

A workers license with no liability is meaningless.
A workers license with liability becomes a contractor.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Without some sort of recognized standard, anarchy ensues.





BryanMD said:


> This is where the permit and inspection process and the CONTRACTORS liability comes into the discussion.
> 
> A workers license with no liability is meaningless.
> A workers license with liability becomes a contractor.


A worker with a license is working under the employer's license [different caliber licenses].

It's not the same everywhere...so ya might need to be a wee bit more specific.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Celtic said:


> It's not the same everywhere...so ya might need to be a wee bit more specific.


I'm pretty sure I've worked in more states than you and have seen first hand everything from dictatorial restriction to wide open. Guess what tho... ohms law and the NEC is the same everywhere regardless of what influences the various state legislators have been willing to bow down to.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

BryanMD said:


> I'm pretty sure I've worked in more states than you and have seen first hand everything from dictatorial restriction to wide open.


Can't debate that as it's probably true...I work only in NJ.



BryanMD said:


> Guess what tho... .... the NEC is the same everywhere regardless of what influences the various state legislators have been willing to bow down to.


:blink:
How can it be the same regardless of what influences the various state legislators have been willing to bow down to?

ie,
An area that is still on the '96 will probably have electricians that are unaware of AFCI requirements when working in area that is under the '08 where AFCI is all the rage.

Most areas have an amended version on the NEC...rumor has it that NYC amended NEC is about as long as the NFPA version ~ I don't think these documents are the same.


Maybe I'm not following you?:001_huh:


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Celtic said:


> How can it be the same regardless of what influences the various state legislators have been willing to bow down to?
> 
> Maybe I'm not following you?


We were talking about JM licensing and liability issues. I was extending that to varying levels of licensing being required to work for an EC... and restrictions imposed by various states on the ability to get a job working for an EC.

Rhetorical Q: As an employer, when a guy applies for a job with you who has a JM ticket do you take that at face value? Or do you still require them to take your own test and then still monitor their competence and performance before setting them loose to work under your GL?

Of course you do. Because whatever that JM ticket may imply... it is still your license on the permit, your company on the contract and your azz on the line.


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