# What should a second year apprentice know?



## owl (Oct 31, 2012)

I searched the forum, but did not find any other threads about this topic. I am really trying to make the most of my education and training, and I'd like to know what concepts or skills I should have at this point. What does a journeyman expect a second year apprentice to know? Thanks in advance!


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Could be anything dude. A second year industrial guy is not going to know what a second year high-rise condo guy, or custom house guy, or service-truck guy, etc is going to know, and vice versa.


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## smiley mcrib (Sep 25, 2011)

owl said:


> I searched the forum, but did not find any other threads about this topic. I am really trying to make the most of my education and training, and I'd like to know what concepts or skills I should have at this point. What does a journeyman expect a second year apprentice to know? Thanks in advance!


dude quit worrying about that. just show up everyday on time and work hard. you are on this website so obviously your step ahead of the game, i'm sure you know plenty as it is. you have two more years before you get your card, in that amount of time i'm sure you will absorb a whole lot of information.:thumbsup:


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

nothing beats experience and hands on learning. you can however take initiative and educate yourself as much or as litle as you want. when i was an apprentice i researched tons and tons of stuff. next time you see something you dont understand and want to know more about- look it up! anything that interests you- read about it! information is at our fingertips now more than ever and you can use that to further your knowledge. you don't have to wait to to be taught everything and it will make you look pretty good when you already have a strong base knowledge of the next thing your apprentice class or jman teaches you


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## Traveen (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm only a 3 rd year apprentice but what you should know is : show up on time and work your bag off! Lol 

But in all seriousness. All you can know is what you've been taught and have done; and even then there is so much more - a small seemingly Insignificant difference from job to job can completely change a task you've done 100 times. One customers / engineer spec can change what you knew from before. 

A 2nd year resi guy could probably wire a simple 3 way with his eyes shut. A 2nd year Industrial guy could wire an hand/off/auto for a motor control. Either of them may mess up or be confused on the different task just because they haven't seen it before! 

The best bet is listen to your jman because they're the ones guiding you and I don't think any journeyman actually wants to see a good apprentice fail! If you listen to what they tell you and follow their directions you'll learn more simply because they begin to trust you and will develop faith that you want to learn and aren't just there to collect a pay cheque.


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## adroga (Mar 3, 2011)

"All you can know is what you've been taught and have done"

In a way this statement might be true, but I think at the same time it's your responsibility to expand your knowledge by reading and trying to learn on your own.

If you're stuck as a sweeper, gopher , tool fetcher for a large company for your apprenticeship... Then what kind of sparky would you be?


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## owl (Oct 31, 2012)

Much appreciated.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

In responding I am assuming that you have completed your first and second year and are just starting your 3rd year and you are wondreing about the classroom side of the program.
First year
Electrical safety
Hand bending
Fasteners and anchors
Electrical theory 1
Electrical theory 2
Test equipment
Introduction to NEC
Raceways boxes fittings
Conductors
Blueprints
Commerical & industrial wiring
Residential wiring

Second year
Alternating current
Motor Theory
Lighting
Conduit bending
Pull & Junction boxes
Conductor installation 
Cable tray 
Conductor splicing and terminating
Grounding and bonding
Circuit breakers & fuses
Control systems fundimentals.

That is the first and second year of the ABC/NCCER Electrical Appernticeship program.
There is anouther question and that is how long will it me to feel comfortable about doing electrical work? 
The correct answer is that it only comes with time.
I have been doing industrial work sence 1983 and I feel comfortable with the day to day work but some work that I do on a occasional basis I do need to have to do some talking and take time to think it all through.
Anouther thing that you must consider is what kind of work have you been doing in the first 2 years. If you are on a big job and all you have done is pipe work it might be hard for you to understand 3 wire motor control.
Don't get discouraged. It is not uncommon and more than likely the work and the class work will not have a thing to do with each other. Just hang in there.
LC


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## Ontariojer (May 19, 2011)

I'm pretty sure........everything. Just ask kaboler.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

owl said:


> I searched the forum, but did not find any other threads about this topic. I am really trying to make the most of my education and training, and I'd like to know what concepts or skills I should have at this point. What does a journeyman expect a second year apprentice to know? Thanks in advance!



Where the nearest coffee shop is.:thumbup:

I would expect a second level to know how to run BX, tie in boxes, basic piping skills. Ability to show up 5 minutes before the start of the day, willing to do what is asked. Just because your second level does not get you out of trench digging.

It all depends on what you did in your first year, I have seen second levels bending pipe just as good as me but very little experience running BX. I have also seen 2nd levels have no clue about pipe bending but can run BX all day without supervision.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

darren79 said:


> Where the nearest coffee shop is.:thumbup:
> 
> I would expect a second level to know how to run BX, tie in boxes, basic piping skills. Ability to show up 5 minutes before the start of the day, willing to do what is asked. Just because your second level does not get you out of trench digging.
> 
> It all depends on what you did in your first year, I have seen second levels bending pipe just as good as me but very little experience running BX. I have also seen 2nd levels have no clue about pipe bending but can run BX all day without supervision.


You bring up running bx a lot. That's like our mc right? What kind of yokel can't run mc all day after 20 seconds of instruction? I would expect a first year second day apprentice to be able to run mc because it is almost mindless work


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

As a second year, you should be thinking about gaining a variety of experience over the next couple of years. That might mean changing employers. By now you should be reasonably good at working with hand and power tools and be developing the ability to think things through even if they're new to you. With a second year, I would be looking at someone who is developing a sense of maturity and is eager to develop his skills as a tradesman. Personally, I would never hire a second year who is satisfied with being a wire or pipe robot all day. I would want somebody who could THINK, with a degree of problem solving skills.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> You bring up running bx a lot. That's like our mc right? What kind of yokel can't run mc all day after 20 seconds of instruction? I would expect a first year second day apprentice to be able to run mc because it is almost mindless work



True but there is difference in doing what your told and being able to look at a print and figure things out on there own.

I could tell most people how to do my job(this wires go there, etc) but to actually understand why we do something not just how is what takes the time to learn. As a second level you should know more of the why.


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## Arc'n'Spark (Jul 21, 2011)

darren79 said:


> you should know more of the why.


The continued desire to attain this knowledge throughout your career will set you apart from 99% of electricians.


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## darren79 (Dec 20, 2011)

I still ask why but I don't have the mind of Tesla so I will never fully get the why of electricity.


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## Bushknight (Feb 18, 2016)

*Apprentice Yealy tasks*

I am wondering if anyone knows what you are legally allowed to do in each year as an Electrical Apprentice at an industrial site? Eg. resetting Overloads, lighting, working on MCC starters, VFD's, 347 volt, 600 volt, 2100 volt, 4160 volt, 13800 volts, ect. in the province of Alberta.
Thanks


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

The most important thing is "when's lunch". jk
And, when to carry your journeyman's tools, without having to be told, that's why we have apprentices. Being able to take a joke is a plus.


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## NC Plc (Mar 24, 2014)




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## Arikculwell (Feb 16, 2016)

joebanana said:


> The most important thing is "when's lunch". jk
> And, when to carry your journeyman's tools, without having to be told, that's why we have apprentices. Being able to take a joke is a plus.


Lol that's funny. When I first started my attitude was "****, that dude can carry in his own tools if I'm unloading the rest of the truck" now almost at 1yr next month, I make sure I'm first out of the van, carry in his tool bags first thing, then mine and everything else. I like this trade it teaches something more then being a wireman.


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## FF301 (Jan 12, 2014)

Start focusing on code requirements and how that relates to the why's. 
Changing codes are moving us back to dedicated neutrals for arc fault and gfi breakers. 
Circuit lay outs and how your setting up conduit runs. 
Energy management systems, stage lighting systems, they all have special requirements. 
I'm seeing a lot of guys stalling out in there 3rd year and just being professional apprentices/ installers. 
Keep up with learning as much as you can, the trade is evolving every day you will never know it all, but if you understand the theory/ how come parts you will get far.


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## Bad Electrician (May 20, 2014)

owl said:


> I searched the forum, but did not find any other threads about this topic. I am really trying to make the most of my education and training, and I'd like to know what concepts or skills I should have at this point. What does a journeyman expect a second year apprentice to know? Thanks in advance!


How fast should a car go? Well it depends on what you use that car for, there are a 150 answers and that is just part of the equation.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

joebanana said:


> The most important thing is "when's lunch". jk
> And, when to carry your journeyman's tools, without having to be told, that's why we have apprentices. Being able to take a joke is a plus.



Our company is pretty against that mindset. Apprentices are there to touch electrical, learn electrical, and turn out electricians. If your green apprentice is a full-time broom operator, than you're probably better off hiring a labourer and paying them way less than the required 50%-of-journeyman wage. Sure, they're going to get the junk tasks, but they're electrcial junk tasks.


Obviously on paper, and logistically day-to-day there's a pecking order, but no way in hell am I'm going to elevate myself to a such a high pedestal that I feel someone should carry in my tools at the start of a day. Only when I'm completely swamped at the end of day would I maybe ask for that. My tools are my tools, I'm carrying them in, and carrying them out. No holier-than-thou attitude around here among the J-man and senior apprentices.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

2nd year apprentices are all supposed to know to send their annual $50 apprentice fee to macmikeman, care of Cricket at ET. Money orders only please, checks are not accepted.


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## CGW (Oct 14, 2014)

By year two you should know exactly how the boss likes his coffee and which car freshener scent is his favorite.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Ink&Brass said:


> Our company is pretty against that mindset. Apprentices are there to touch electrical, learn electrical, and turn out electricians. If your green apprentice is a full-time broom operator, than you're probably better off hiring a labourer and paying them way less than the required 50%-of-journeyman wage. Sure, they're going to get the junk tasks, but they're electrcial junk tasks.
> 
> 
> Obviously on paper, and logistically day-to-day there's a pecking order, but no way in hell am I'm going to elevate myself to a such a high pedestal that I feel someone should carry in my tools at the start of a day. Only when I'm completely swamped at the end of day would I maybe ask for that. My tools are my tools, I'm carrying them in, and carrying them out. No holier-than-thou attitude around here among the J-man and senior apprentices.


Did you read the part about being able to TAKE A JOKE? FAIL. :jester:


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

joebanana said:


> Did you read the part about being able to TAKE A JOKE? FAIL. :jester:


Nah I saw it, thought to two thoughts were exclusive. 

I've been a pylon in the army, you're sense of humour is all you've got on the job! 

More concerned about the guys who through and through feel that way.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Ink&Brass said:


> Nah I saw it, thought to two thoughts were exclusive.
> 
> I've been a pylon in the army, you're sense of humour is all you've got on the job!
> 
> More concerned about the guys who through and through feel that way.


I was an apprentice at one time, although, long ago. A sense of humor is one of the best quality's a man can have in this trade. Maybe, I should use LOL, or ROFLOL, but I hate that stuff. LOL. :laughing: You can't take life too seriously or it'll kill ya.


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## Billbobuttkins (Nov 6, 2013)

Second year for me was not staying with the same company and ALWAYS looking for the next great thing. Most importantly don't be a **** to people who know less than you!


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

adroga said:


> "All you can know is what you've been taught and have done"
> 
> In a way this statement might be true, but I think at the same time it's your responsibility to expand your knowledge by reading and trying to learn on your own.
> 
> If you're stuck as a sweeper, gopher , tool fetcher for a large company for your apprenticeship... Then what kind of sparky would you be?




That's what we use material handers for, and they're cheaper than an apprentice


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## sparky970 (Mar 19, 2008)

Ink&Brass said:


> Our company is pretty against that mindset. Apprentices are there to touch electrical, learn electrical, and turn out electricians. If your green apprentice is a full-time broom operator, than you're probably better off hiring a labourer and paying them way less than the required 50%-of-journeyman wage. Sure, they're going to get the junk tasks, but they're electrcial junk tasks.
> 
> 
> Obviously on paper, and logistically day-to-day there's a pecking order, but no way in hell am I'm going to elevate myself to a such a high pedestal that I feel someone should carry in my tools at the start of a day. Only when I'm completely swamped at the end of day would I maybe ask for that. My tools are my tools, I'm carrying them in, and carrying them out. No holier-than-thou attitude around here among the J-man and senior apprentices.



I have never had an apprentice carry my tools. Why should they?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

sparky970 said:


> I have never had an apprentice carry my tools. Why should they?


So that they can build up angst against you, which will also create within them a drive to be your Forman one day, just so they can lay you off!:whistling2:

I don't know..... I've had plenty of apprentices hand me tools, carry tools, carry supplies, hand me supplies. I didn't make them haul my bags or tool box, but if I was working and they were assisting, they were handing me what I requested. Kind of like a nurse and doctor relationship, no one is really better than the other, they work together to get the job done in the best and most efficient manner.:thumbsup:


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

To not burst out with a term or "catch phrase" that you picked up in school, that may not be appropriate to the task you are doing, or that people haven't heard/used since they were in school... For the most part, keep it simple and use the terminology that is relevant, and if you're trying to explain something and aren't sure of the words you're looking for - a picture is worth a thousand words... 

ie.. - I had a guy tell me that two heaters were "wired like a 3 wire Edison circuit". I said that is hard, as they are 208 volt single phase heaters and don't need a neutral... After looking at the panel, I saw they were fed with a 3P15A breaker, and used the "b" phase for both heaters... I saw what he was trying to say, but the wrong terminology....


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## donaldelectrician (Sep 30, 2010)

What a Question ...

He should know how to Make the Perfect Capachino ....

He should know how to get the Shotgun Ready When Necessary .

He should advise "J Man " , when womans nite coat is taking effect of J-Mans better judgement ...

He should know how to Pour Scotch .

He should know how to Drive .

He should have the comb ready if a hair out of place .

He should know how to call in an air strike on the Job when working near Top Gun Base ...




He should know how to say " Thank You Boss Man for this Cash Bonus I get every week beyond my pay check .


Basicly he should have my azz ,

DON


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## fisstech (Feb 2, 2013)

rough ins
basic pipe bending
wire pulling
how to build rack
building cable tray
basics of distribution and transformation
hanging light fixtures
knowledge of material and hardware
how to use all the power tools (chop saw, hammer drill, etc)
site safety
little things (like having your zoom boom ticket) help a lot too.


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## mikesparky (Aug 1, 2015)

I am finishing my second year and on my second employer. I think what you have to ask your self if you are being challenged? if you are sweeping floors, and putting in plugs 24/7 than its time to find some one new. i started out doing that , pulling feeds all day etc etc and i decided to leave that employer for a smaller company that wanted to expand. within 6 months i have learned 20x what i did in a year with the other company. because at my new employer my knowledge is a asset to them not just a reason for them to be forced to pay more


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## B.Jenkins (Apr 14, 2016)

FF301 said:


> Start focusing on code requirements and how that relates to the why's.
> Changing codes are moving us back to dedicated neutrals for arc fault and gfi breakers.
> Circuit lay outs and how your setting up conduit runs.
> Energy management systems, stage lighting systems, they all have special requirements.
> ...


If you raise a child and that child grows up to become a screw up, who's to blame? Is it the parents? Or their son/daughter? 

If the EC is only doing small or midsize build outs with the occasional remodel to where the jman is out smoking weed or gets annoyed when a newbie asks a question, who's fault is it then if they end up becoming professional installers or ****ty electricians? Why were they not ran out of the trade long ago? 

Every job I've always learned the most from was from the jman/foreman who actually gives a **** about the trade and about the job he's running. It makes some of us actually looking forward coming to work the night before.


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## B.Jenkins (Apr 14, 2016)

Bushknight said:


> I am wondering if anyone knows what you are legally allowed to do in each year as an Electrical Apprentice at an industrial site? Eg. resetting Overloads, lighting, working on MCC starters, VFD's, 347 volt, 600 volt, 2100 volt, 4160 volt, 13800 volts, ect. in the province of Alberta.
> Thanks


If the boss doesn't know about it and the jman is willing to show an apprentice then I'd be thrilled to learn something like that. Unless it's something like working on 277v hot which would make me a bit nervous.


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