# Menial tasks and working alone a lot



## longrider (Nov 6, 2019)

one thing there is no real Menial task . It sounds like your a good worker and thats the deal when you work hard sometimes you get the things that otheres are either slow at or not so enthusiastic about. Be patent learn when ever and how ever you can from the JW that are willing to teach and worth listening to. Remeber this trade will become your life for many years to come and put food on the table and clothes on yout back. As a third year your just starting to lean keep up the good attitude and you will go far.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

If you think about it, most of what we do is a one man show. There isn't really much that requires two, or more bodies to accomplish. When you're pulling wire by yourself, that's when you speak up. You're not supposed to go solo until your 5th year, so you're being complimented. Don't knock it. If you have questions, there's always someone to ask, right?


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

As stated, your by yourself because you are competent. you may even end up with your own apprentice soon. You will never stop learning and maybe you just haven't been given the opportunity to learn the stuff you want to but that will come along. Ask for more responsibility and tackle the stuff you don't know. Sounds like you are doing fine, it will all come together.


Tim.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I might disagree with the other guys. It’s a big trade. Your apprenticeship is when you should be learning many different things. Maybe you need a big change up (commercial to industrial for example).


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

Thanks for all of the feedback!

I'm thankful to be in the position that I am in. I am a half glass full kind of thinker and so I'm confident that I will become the electrician that I want to be.

I'm worried that no one else has my best interest in mind. I don't expect them too but it's frustrating to see 1st term guys running conduit or working on big gear while I'm doing simple tasks that they should be on. 

I have witnessed people being pigeon-holed into the same set of tasks for their entire apprenticeship and when they journey out they are afraid to face new challenges. This is my biggest fear. I'm doing everything possible to be prepared but I need the hands on experience. 

I'm being patient but it's getting old really quick.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Diesel2Electric said:


> Thanks for all of the feedback!
> 
> I'm thankful to be in the position that I am in. I am a half glass full kind of thinker and so I'm confident that I will become the electrician that I want to be.
> 
> ...


Your employer is screwing you out of a well rounded apprenticeship. If you search this forum hard enough, you will find posts from journeymen with very limited experience stuck in a rut with no way out.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

@Diesel2Electric fill out your profile.:wink:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Title sums me up perfect. 43 yrs worth.


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Talk to your foreman Do not say you feel that your present assignment is below you. Tell him you are weak in a few areas and tell him what they are. Be sure that.some of your weak points are types of work being done somewhere on the job site. Ask if you can be assigned to some of those types of tasks to help you with your education.

You should also try sitting next th a JW during break or lunch who you know is working on something interesting and ask him to explain the task and how he is going about it.

This year, you will probably be taking a leadership course. There are many scenarios involving apprentices and I think there may be one that covers a similar situation. But, I may be wrong about this as my memory isn't what it used to be.

Good luck


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

@Tom45acp

I've spoken with my foreman and relayed to him that I'm in 4th term and we are learning about transformers. Currently on my job we have 8 transformers to wire up. He said there's too big of a time crunch to let me get my hands on one or even standby to assist. 

He then said that as an apprentice I'm here to make the company money and not here to learn what I should be learning in school. Today he hasn't even said a word to me and so I feel like I pissed him off.

To top it all off my program director told me that he doesn't care if I'm told to sit and watch the paint fall off of the walls. I'm supposed to shut up and just do what I'm asked. 

I get that I'm an indentured apprentice but the cultural norms are counter productive in regards to solving our shortage of skilled labor in the electrical industry.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

It’s time to go job shopping. The only one who will take care of you is you. Your foreman is an ass licker.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

.* I've been to a few shops and this has been a consistent issue for me.
*
Did it ever occur to you that you might like to talk more than work?
I would make sure someone like that was isolated and working on something that couldn't get then in trouble.
:wink:


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

Other than the pleasantries I dont talk a lot. Lol maybe I should start talking about all the things everyone else likes:hunting and drinking.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

It is true that you need to look after you and your success. Doesn’t mean you need to be phony or not be yourself, but connections in this and any business are important, from sales counter guys, sales reps to your your boss and coworkers.


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Don't forget donut eating and coffee drinking as a topic of conversation.


Your foreman and program director have a piss poor attitude. Your foreman I can understand, but your program director is certainly not doing his job.


As an indentured apprentice, you agreed to go through the program, starting at low wages, among other things . In return, you were to be given an education consisting of classroom instruction and OJT (on the job training). So far, it seems you are living up to your end of the bargain, but the other side isn't.


Many things have changed since I was an apprentice, back with Nick Tesla & Tom Edison, well not quite back that far (1973). Back then,it was not permissible for an apprentice to work alone. Therefore, I got a lot more individual instruction from JWs.


Fast forward- now there is a lot of pressure on contractors involving both time and money. You are now expected to work alone and make do with less time spent with direct JW supervision. That said, your foreman was wrong as your main reason for being on the job is to learn your trade and still make money for the contractor. This can be done, but it is up to the JW and foreman to make sure that you do more than pull wire and sweep the floor.


The attitude that I really find troubling is that of your program director. He is the one with the day to day responsibility to take care of the training of apprentices. You went to him with a valid complaint and he basically blew you off.


Possible next step. Who is the program directors boss? That is the person who you should be talking to. First, though, stop in and see the program director again and tell him again that you don't feel like you are receiving adequate training on the job and convince him you are sincere in this belief. If he persists in not addressing your concerns, tell him you would like to speak to someone higher up. Don't go over his head before you speak to him again.


Another thing your foreman was wrong about was getting hands on experience in class. This can be done to a small degree. If it is done to a large degree, your apprenticeship would have to be 10 or 12 years (presuming you attend class two nights a week). Plus a large investment in training materials would have to be made along with hiring more instructors. Also, there is a difference between doing a task in a classroom or workshop setting and doing it on the job. Transformers are a good example. Before I retired, the last three jobs I was on had transformers that were incorrectly wired. They worked, but did not comply with the NEC. I also heard one JW ask another JW how to hook one up as he had not been able to do so when he was an apprentice.


Ah, well, enough reminiscing. Keep this thread alive as others may have some good ideas. I still have one more idea, but it can be considered the going nuclear option. I'll keep it to myself for now.


Best of luck


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Some people get bored easily. I figure that inside wire-man is probably going to be a short lived career in your case. 

Your nose is out of joint as you wanted to wire a transformer to get the experience but if they then gave you 50 to wire you would be complaining that its a menial task. 

Try to hang in there for the paper work then the sky is your limit.


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

I see where you are coming from. Yes, I get bored when I'm not challenged but I do have self discipline and can push through the boredom in order to meet the overall goals of the job. 

With any task at some point you are ready to do something else but at this point in my career wiring a transformer or doing something that takes skill and know-how isnt something I would get bored with any time soon. 

The end goal is to get the license but what's the point of having the license if you dont know how to do the work efficiently?


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

I'm starting to feel like there is a bigger issue than just me not getting the experience I believe I need in order to become a competent skilled electrician. 

I've spoken with other apprentices who feel the same way but they are too afraid to buck the system by asking questions. Maybe I should say something at the next union meeting?


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Whereabouts are you? What local? IBEW? Somethin' ain't right...


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

The great IBEW local 48 in Portland Oregon.

The economy is booming and so many people want to get in, I should consider myself lucky and shut my mouth.


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Now that I know you are union I guarantee, as lawnguy said, ain't right, especially if you are an IBEW member. No, it is probably not you. The union meeting is probably not the place to bring this up if you are IBEW. As stated before, give the program director another shot then your next step would be to take it to the business manager. 



I've met a lot of instructors from other locals and not one program I know of would have a training director with the attitude of yours.


BTW, once you are sworn in as a member, you shouldn't fear retribution for standing up for your rights. After all, that is what a union is supposed to do.



Maybe you should come to WV and see if you can transfer your membership.


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

Asking to wire up a transformer was after reaching out to this forum for advice...


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

@Tom45acp

If my wife wasn't in Nursing school at the moment, I would highly consider moving to another state to finish out my apprenticeship. 

You would think I shouldn't have to fear retribution but we have what's called the good ol' black ball system. Every local is a small local and word travels fast. The general mindset is to keep your head down and try not to piss anyone off.

I'll reach back out to my program director but he's subscribed to the old mentality where he had to eat **** and so it's only right everyone else eats ****. 

I'm here to provide for my family but truth be told I want to be an awesome electrician like my dad and grandfather are. Too bad they run their own non-union businesses...


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## Tom45acp (Sep 6, 2011)

Remember the way you've been treated. Eventually, you will be responsible for training an apprentice. Treat him or her better as that is about the only way to make this go away.


There is always some menial work to be done and it usually falls to the apprentice to take care of it. But you have to ask if you are getting more of this than your fair share. 



You sound like a reasonably smart, well motivated and levelheaded person, just what we're looking for in this trade There is more than one way to make money in this trade. The one that I used was being very knowledgeable about theory, how other systems worked, like fire alarms & motor controls and becoming a code guru. Doing this can make you the go to guy on the job and if you're so inclined, you could end up starting your own business which is what I did.


Best of luck


Tom


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

@Tom45acp

Thanks for the positive feedback, it has been a tremendous help.

My mindset is exactly what you've said. I will treat my apprentices better and with more respect in hopes of changing the culture for the better. 

My plan is to learn as much as possible and with luck I will open my own shop one day.

As far as the a** h**** I have to deal with...I'll do just that, deal with it for now and then combat their b.s. when I'm on a level playing field.

Have a great weekend!


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

Go ahead and deal with them now, but don't have issue with looking for a better job to work on / better people to work for. Let it be known that you have no problem getting the job done. I would wait until a day when they have you planned to do a whole bunch of remedial crap and be sick for a couple days. It has worked in the past, especially when you are taken for granted, which is what is happening here. Start looking for other opportunities.


The other major thing to watch out for, particularly when you are younger, enthusiastic and driven, is that you can pose a threat to some people and they will do just what is being done with you in order to keep you "in line". By limiting your exposure and experience, they either run you off or keep you below their level of skill and knowledge.


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

@sparkiez

My dad and grandfather are both electricians and both went through the union and left. Most people dont know our relation but they have both told me many times that people will try to keep me "in line" and hold me back because of who I am related too.

Which is exactly what's happening. It's good to hear someone else say it because I was really starting to feel like I'm crazy.

I really feel like the program director is somehow behind all of this? Is that reaching a little too far to think he might have it out for me? He assigns my jobs, I dont get to pick. Hmmm...


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

canbug said:


> As stated, your by yourself because you are competent. you may even end up with your own apprentice soon. You will never stop learning and maybe you just haven't been given the opportunity to learn the stuff you want to but that will come along. Ask for more responsibility and tackle the stuff you don't know. Sounds like you are doing fine, it will all come together.


Basically sums up my apprenticeship experience. They already realize you're competent, have a work ethic, and don't need babysitting.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

You know, it could well be, but I doubt it. The other thing you need to get used to is not having anyone show you how to do stuff. You need to be able to consult documentation and the code to answer your own questions. 

Get the number off of one of those transformers, pull up the documentation, draw out your own schematic of how you think it should be wired, then ask one of the JW if it is right before your shift. This will be more beneficial than being shown how to do it. No one ever taught me how to wire a transformer, or lay out circuits, or program plcs, or do instrumentation, etc.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

By doing that, you are effectively bypassing all the bs and learning how to approach the problem. No one can keep you from that.


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

@sparkiez

Thanks again for the feedback. 

Before becoming an apprentice I went through a two-year diesel mechanic program and then worked as one for 7 years. I was an engine specialist. Reading technical manuals and following detailed instructions were a daily occurence for me. 

I have no problem figuring things out. I'm just ready to start doing the work. But to your point, I can keep acquiring the knowledge on my own and when the opportunity comes to perform the work I'll be ready.


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## sparkiez (Aug 1, 2015)

Diesel2Electric said:


> @*sparkiez*
> 
> Thanks again for the feedback.
> 
> ...



That is the attitude. You will do fine. Seems like it is just you buying your time until you can get your license, then you can pull up the manual and draw a nice schematic, with a crayon, showing both the program director and that particular foreman exactly where they can stick their **** attitudes.


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## phamousgrey (Mar 22, 2018)

lmfao, i cant add anything new to the conv. whats already been said other than ; i think i was in year 2.5 when i was working on my own wiring houses. i had only my code book and 3 levels of rushed schooling to go on... lmfao, i made a few mistakes. but you learn from it from the inspector. and.,.....yeah, after that as an apprentice i was wiring entire houses by myself .


ie, the planning of circuits for the whole house, switching was never a problem for moi, 3 and 4 way etc, pfft, no prob. but your always learning, i didnt know how soffit lights are wired, or potlights...but i learned. my piece d'resistance so to speak[i dont speak french btw] are my panels/distribution centres. as evidenced by my profile pic.


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## jarrydee (Aug 24, 2019)

I like working alone... sometimes. I am about to take my Jman test and been assigned an apprentice that only has 3 months. Even on the same job, I have him working alone, doing things he knows. only after he is done with those things do I have him come watch me, and teach him new things.


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## jarrydee (Aug 24, 2019)

phamousgrey said:


> lmfao, i cant add anything new to the conv. whats already been said other than ; i think i was in year 2.5 when i was working on my own wiring houses. i had only my code book and 3 levels of rushed schooling to go on... lmfao, i made a few mistakes. but you learn from it from the inspector. and.,.....yeah, after that as an apprentice i was wiring entire houses by myself .
> 
> 
> ie, the planning of circuits for the whole house, switching was never a problem for moi, 3 and 4 way etc, pfft, no prob. but your always learning, i didnt know how soffit lights are wired, or potlights...but i learned. my piece d'resistance so to speak[i dont speak french btw] are my panels/distribution centres. as evidenced by my profile pic.


Hell, I was wiring houses off blue prints in my 2nd year, and had no schooling. Didn't need it back then. I learned from inspectors..lol They were cool enough to let me walk the house with them and fix the little things while they were there.


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

I'm on to the next contractor!!!! 😁😁


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Diesel2Electric said:


> I'm on to the next contractor!!!! 😁😁


Why didn't you stick with being a diesel mechanic ?


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

I still turn wrench as a side hustle but I got burned out working in the same location everyday and the pay wasn't enough for me. 

I plan on going solo and combining the two trades when it's all said and done.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Diesel2Electric said:


> I still turn wrench as a side hustle but I got burned out working in the same location everyday and the pay wasn't enough for me.
> 
> I plan on going solo and combining the two trades when it's all said and done.


I would have gone into mobile Diesel Mechanic, or solo for sure. That's a good gig.


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

Its definitely a great fall back career. I can go work damn near anywhere.

I want to work on big generators and so I figured getting the electrical license would help with that and more


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Diesel2Electric said:


> I'm on to the next contractor!!!! 😁😁



So how did it all go down?


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## Diesel2Electric (Nov 7, 2019)

I caught my foreman talking about me twice to other JW's. Basically he didn't like how I completed my tasks faster than he anticipated. The work I was given was a bunch of odd jobs...

They waited until the last half an hour of the day to give me my check which is another way of saying "**** you". Normally the contractor will give you the layoff before lunch time...but it's all good.


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