# self grounding recepts?



## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

Have a customer that wants these installed. Due to the rental property that has to pass an inspection. I would prefer to pull ground wires to all the recepts. But time is tight. 

My  biggest concern is the tenant or who ever thinking the outlet is grounded when it is really not


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Whats a self grounding receptacle? A GFCI ?


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Are we talking a self grounding rec that you install in a metal box or a gfci?


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Install GFCI breakers , no equipment ground stickers and walk away.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

heavysparky said:


> Have a customer that wants these installed. Due to the rental property that has to pass an inspection. I would prefer to pull ground wires to all the recepts. But time is tight.
> 
> My biggest concern is the tenant or who ever thinking the outlet is grounded when it is really not



And this will detect it so it won't pass...

http://youtu.be/_04HmpFBxdQ


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I always thought self grounding receptacles were the ones with spring clips at on one end of the yoke that bonded the yoke to the metal box, thus not technically needing a ground wire connected to it.

Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?


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## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> I always thought self grounding receptacles were the ones with spring clips at on one end of the yoke that bonded the yoke to the metal box, thus not technically needing a ground wire connected to it.
> 
> Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?


 
yes those


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## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

heavysparky said:


> yes those


If you're putting them in a bonded metal box, then they are grounded


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> I always thought self grounding receptacles were the ones with spring clips at on one end of the yoke that bonded the yoke to the metal box, thus not technically needing a ground wire connected to it.
> 
> Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?


that's what I thought too, as long as there's continuous emt between that box/plaster ring & the service. if there's and industrial/garvin cover with the duplex recpt then you need to bond the recpt to the box.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

heavysparky said:


> yes those


Those meet NEC requirements for device bonding. Is there a local code that precludes the installation of them? As long as the box is bonded via EMT or a ground wire in MC or Romex, then you are good to go.


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## frankft (Jan 26, 2008)

Not sure if I'm understanding the OP right, but if you only have 2 wire cable and no equipment ground present, then self grounding receptacles will not "self ground".


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## Duece McCracken (Sep 18, 2013)

frankft said:


> Not sure if I'm understanding the OP right, but if you only have 2 wire cable and no equipment ground present, then self grounding receptacles will not "self ground".


My thoughts as well.

Hopefully its grounded metal boxes, so then he can just slap in the self grounding devices and be code compliant.

GFCI breaker and walk away, I'm liking this idea.

Installing a GFCI device could lead to reset availability issues depending on how many rooms/areas the circuit feeds. Would be a PITA if it tripped and you had an occupied area that you had to access to reset. Breaker would be much simpler, but I'm only speculating with what little info you gave us.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Duece McCracken said:


> My thoughts as well.
> 
> Hopefully its grounded metal boxes, so then he can just slap in the self grounding devices and be code compliant.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind just because they're metal boxes it does not mean they are grounded.


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## Duece McCracken (Sep 18, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> I always thought self grounding receptacles were the ones with spring clips at on one end of the yoke that bonded the yoke to the metal box, thus not technically needing a ground wire connected to it.
> 
> Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?


Technically its a constant contact device that keeps the 6/32 install screw in continuity with the grounded yoke thus allowing the 6/32 to be a solid path to ground, if you had to use device spacers or a non metallic box extension your yoke wouldn't be in contact with a ground path, but regardless of spacers your 6/32 would be a path to ground, hence the constant contact spring, tab, or piece of wire essentially bonding the screw to the yoke for a path to ground. 

How bout dem apples?


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## Duece McCracken (Sep 18, 2013)

HARRY304E said:


> Keep in mind just because they're metal boxes it does not mean they are grounded.


Oh I did, hopefully the OP has determined this as well. A meter or plug in tester would yield the necessary results.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

OP needs to be careful: If you have 2-prong receptacles, the odds are poor that you'll be able to just swap in a 3-prong and have a safe, code compliant install.

More than likely you have a wiring method with no equipment ground present, and this is true even if the box is metal and you have old metal jacketed BX cable: That is not a safe equipment ground, do not use it as one.

The only vintage wiring method that would still be a suitable ground is conduit.

I agree with Harry, the easiest safest solution would be to put in GFCIs.


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## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

Big John said:


> OP needs to be careful: If you have 2-prong receptacles, the odds are poor that you'll be able to just swap in a 3-prong and have a safe, code compliant install.
> 
> More than likely you have a wiring method with no equipment ground present, and this is true even if the box is metal and you have old metal jacketed BX cable: That is not a safe equipment ground, do not use it as one.
> 
> ...


House has 3 prong receptacles now. of the one box I opened.it is wired with wire pre dating ground wires


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

since there is no conduit, nor a grounding conductor this is the only solution short of rewiring.

2011 National Electrical Code section 406.4 (D) (2) (b) states that a non-grounding-type receptacle shall be permitted to be replaced with a GFCI receptacle and shall be marked "No Equipment Ground". 

2011 National Electrical Code section 406.4 (D) (2) (c) states that a non-grounding-type receptacle shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle, provided it feeds through a GFCI and shall be marked "No Equipment Ground".


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## e909 (Sep 4, 2013)

It was common practice here to ground the outlet box only. Grounding the receptacle is something that really only started in the late 80s or so, as far as I know.

Self grounding receptacles seem to serve the purpose of not having to ground the receptacle itself, if the box is sufficiently grounded.


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## KGN742003 (Apr 23, 2012)

DH ELECTRIC said:


> that's what I thought too, as long as there's continuous emt between that box/plaster ring & the service. if there's and industrial/garvin cover with the duplex recpt then you need to bond the recpt to the box.


Actually, if you have a surface mount box and industrial cover (with the 2 nut and bolt connections), not only can you use a self grounding receptacle without an extra bond wire, but you can use normal receptacle provided you remove one of the insulating washers. Checkout 250.146 A


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## SparkyDino (Sep 23, 2013)

KGN742003 said:


> Actually, if you have a surface mount box and industrial cover (with the 2 nut and bolt connections), not only can you use a self grounding receptacle without an extra bond wire, but you can use normal receptacle provided you remove one of the insulating washers. Checkout 250.146 A


DAMN IT!  when will I stop learning in this trade :whistling2:

when was this changed, I was taught to bond the device to the box with an industrial cover, haven't look it up in a lifetime......just habit to do it that way


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## heavysparky (Jun 2, 2009)

Thank you every one for the Ideas. I really want to just re wire the small house and be done with it. It is a small 2 bedroom on a slab house. To me this will make sure that it is all done correctly. 

Plus after yesterday and discovering that the kitchen and bath share the same circuit. plus the water heater and Stove share one also. Man I need better customers lol:laughing:


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