# Failed Inspectio-Mounted Disc Horizontally



## jsb (Apr 5, 2009)

i had an inspectio fail me for mounting Sieman GF321N (30a 250v Disc) horizontally to the bottom of a bar joist. he cited 110.3.B, 440.6, and 440.7.

i cannot find a listing to mount these horizontally as he said. i also cannot find anything that says to mount these vertically. i would have no problem changing all 40 of them but i have a hard time changing from one unlisted position to another. if you throw common sense into the equation and say mount them vertically then i counter with the common sense theory that the handle nor fusses will not change state in the horizonal position due to gravity.

just wondering if anyone has ever run into this or if anyone can find any "directions" etc from the manufacturer saying to mount them either way.


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## cdnelectrician (Mar 14, 2008)

I don't think I have ever seen a disconnect mounted horizontally...no offence, but if I was the AHJ I would have failed it too. Why might I ask did you mount them that way in the first place? I mean if a disconnect was mounted that way and was not level, or one of the screws came loose and the disconnect fell the right way it certainly is possible that the knives could close.


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## jsb (Apr 5, 2009)

common sense reply and thats what my boss said too. i told him everything was perfect as seen from his desk. if you saw the installation you would agree with it. the disc mounted in any other position would not be nearly accessible or as quality of an installation.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

jsb said:


> common sense reply and thats what my boss said too. i told him everything was perfect as seen from his desk. if you saw the installation you would agree with it. the disc mounted in any other position would not be nearly accessible or as quality of an installation.



hmm.
as we don't have any pics to go from...

If there is room to install the disconnect using hdwr through the back of the housing as is normally done and presumably you did... is there any reason the disconnect wasn't mounted with hdwr *through the top of the housing* to the beam instead... so as to maintain the common vertical positioning?


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## jsb (Apr 5, 2009)

o dont get me wrong i can figure out a way to mount them vertically-i was just wondering what everyone thought about the code/listing issues


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## bdeots (Feb 10, 2010)

code art. 240.33 Vertical Positions Man that sucks. I figured you were talking about one, but 40. I would at least try to fight it. good luck


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

http://www.ecmag.com/index.cfm?fa=article&articleID=7650


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Failed Inspection*



jsb said:


> i had an inspectio fail me for mounting Sieman GF321N (30a 250v Disc) horizontally to the bottom of a bar joist. he cited 110.3.B, 440.6, and 440.7.
> 
> i cannot find a listing to mount these horizontally as he said. i also cannot find anything that says to mount these vertically. i would have no problem changing all 40 of them but i have a hard time changing from one unlisted position to another. if you throw common sense into the equation and say mount them vertically then i counter with the common sense theory that the handle nor fusses will not change state in the horizonal position due to gravity.
> 
> just wondering if anyone has ever run into this or if anyone can find any "directions" etc from the manufacturer saying to mount them either way.


I may be late in the game on this, but what I have read talks about a disconnect that houses an overcurrent device. Are your disconnects non- fused? If you have your answer, just ignore this post.


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## jsb (Apr 5, 2009)

fused


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Disc. Horiz.*



jsb said:


> fused


Are your motors fed from a MCC?


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## jsb (Apr 5, 2009)

not motors-VAV boxes (just a big box with a damper and a heating element)
why does that matter what the load is?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Disc. Horiz.*



jsb said:


> not motors-VAV boxes (just a big box with a damper and a heating element)
> why does that matter what the load is?


Okay. I don't really know this answer but could you downsize the breaker at the panel to protect each load, whatever it is, and then convert to a non-fused disconnect? Or is the job done, and the question is MOOT?


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## jsb (Apr 5, 2009)

moot is a new one to me and i dont know what it means........but it is a tapped feeder and must terminate into overcurrent protection. that is the reason for the disconnects


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

jsb said:


> moot is a new one to me and i dont know what it means........but it is a tapped feeder and must terminate into overcurrent protection. that is the reason for the disconnects


MOOT means ,of no significance at this time. As in a situation that has previously been decided and it would be MOOT to pursue further. Kind of like a murder suspect that everyone knows has done it, it would be ...well, you know what I mean.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Great, that 45 deg to vertical on its back disco mount idea is no good.


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## codeone (Sep 15, 2008)

Is this the disconnect you are talking about?
Its designed to be mounted vertical! 110.3(B)


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

If it was my plant I would not allow it. I want anyone to tell from a distance if it is on or off. I would give the contractor one chance to fix it and if they argue/whine I would tell them o leave and take them off the bid list for any future work.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Why are we still arguing this. The article posted by BDEOTS, article 240.33, is very clear.



> 240.33 Vertical Position.
> *Enclosures for overcurrent devices shall be mounted in a vertical position unless that is shown to be impracticable.* Circuit breaker enclosures shall be permitted to be installed horizontally where the circuit breaker is installed in accordance with 240.81. Listed busway plug-in units shall be permitted to be mounted in orientations corresponding to the busway mounting position.


I am not sure I understand why but it is clear that you have to install it vertically unless it is impractical.


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## idontknow (Jul 18, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Why are we still arguing this. The article posted by BDEOTS, article 240.33, is very clear.
> 
> I am not sure I understand why but it is clear that you have to install it vertically unless it is impractical.


Only if it were an overcurrent device. If it were a simple disconnect, 240.33 wouldn't apply.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

IF the dicso has a breaker and is better accessed to work on mounted that way and meets 240.81 then I would make a call to the chief inspector and see what could be done.


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