# lo/to and arc flash



## cmartin2001 (Feb 28, 2013)

is lock out/ tag out and arc flash mandatory classes in a manufacturing enviroment? im a machine maintenance tech for a new company. the plant has been running 3 years and ive been here 1 year. and there has not been any lo/to classes since its opened. same goes with arc flash. and we are inside electrical panels on a daily basis


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

cmartin2001 said:


> is lock out/ tag out and arc flash mandatory classes in a manufacturing enviroment? im a machine maintenance tech for a new company. the plant has been running 3 years and ive been here 1 year. and there has not been any lo/to classes since its opened. same goes with arc flash. and we are inside electrical panels on a daily basis


I can pretty much guarantee you it is required by either OSHA and their workers compensation/insurance company if not by both of them.

They really have a legal and moral obligation to provide everyone a safety manual, conduct safety meetings, have lock out and tag out kits issued, hard hats, ear, eye and back protection, eye wash stations and first aid kits, etc.

We're primarily a service and installation company. We are required to issue all the safety equipment mentioned above and cover a complete curriculum of safety topics that have to be covered over the course of a year. We are required to document the safety meetings and send them in along with an attendance sheet each week. We contract with a HR company that provides us with the manuals and handles and files all the paperwork.


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## cmartin2001 (Feb 28, 2013)

after about 6 months here i asked about lo/to and the hr lady said oh here you go. and handed me 2 locks and a hasp. ive been through training many times at every place ive worked even if it was only for contracted jobs. this place hasnt given a handbook or class and only issued locks to 3 people now and that was only after i questioned it


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

cmartin2001 said:


> after about 6 months here i asked about lo/to and the hr lady said oh here you go. and handed me 2 locks and a hasp. ive been through training many times at every place ive worked even if it was only for contracted jobs. this place hasnt given a handbook or class and only issued locks to 3 people now and that was only after i questioned it


As a business owner, it makes wonder what else is going on with a company that makes safety a low priority. The first thing that comes to mind is the question of how healthy, financially, is this company?

Well, anyway, be careful about "questioning it" too many times. You might find yourself looking for another job.

In the meantime, be safe and try to stay out of unsafe conditions.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

cmartin2001 said:


> is lock out/ tag out and arc flash mandatory classes in a manufacturing enviroment? im a machine maintenance tech for a new company. the plant has been running 3 years and ive been here 1 year. and there has not been any lo/to classes since its opened. same goes with arc flash. and we are inside electrical panels on a daily basis


If you're in _any _sort of position with a title, consider instituting a safety program yourself, start holding & recording your own safety meetings _(which could easily be done @ coffee break)_, have your subordinates sign off....

Give it a while, then hit your employer(s) up for an arc suit & lotto kit, which might come to $500 if you shop around....

~CS~


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Has an arc flash study even been done on your site?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

According to the NFPA 70E, a “Qualified Person" is one who is trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of the equipment or the specific work method, and be trained to recognize the hazards present with respect to that equipment or work method.

Such persons shall also be familiar with the use of the precautionary techniques, personal protective equipment, insulating and shielding materials, and insulated tools and test equipment. A person can be considered qualified with respect to certain tasks but still be unqualified for others.

An employee that is undergoing on the job training and who, in the course of such training, has demonstrated the ability to perform duties safely at his or her level of training and who is under the direct supervision of a qualified person shall be considered to be a qualified person for the performance of those duties. 

In addition, to be permitted to work within the limited approach of exposed energized conductors and circuit parts the person shall be trained in all of the following:
Qualified employees shall be trained and competent in:

The skills and techniques necessary to distinguish exposed live parts from other parts of electric equipment
The skills and techniques necessary to determine the nominal voltage of exposed live parts
The minimum approach distances specified in this section corresponding to the voltages to which the qualified employee will be exposed, and,
The decision making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning necessary to perform the task safely
A few notes to add to the 70E definition.

Only the employer can deem an employee qualified after they have had the proper training and have demonstrated profinency using the skills and method learned.
There is no such thing as NFPA 70E certification, going to a training course does not make an employee qualified.
The most misunderstood part of the "qualified" term is that it is all emcompassing, you are "qualified" to work on a specific type or piece of equipment.
Neither a J-card, a masters license, or an engineering degree make you a "qualified person"
The word "electrician" is not anywhere in the definition of a "qualified person" meaning these rules apply to all employees and you dont have to be an electrician to be "qualified"


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## cmartin2001 (Feb 28, 2013)

No I'm not in a position of authority. I'm only a maintenance tech. I've asked questions and expressed my concerns and given a beat around the bush style answer. I made the comment that I've always worked under the rule safety first but that motto doesn't seem to apply here. I was told that work load on everyone is high and some things have fallen to the back burner. Our "safety" coordinator is also the hr lady. I offered to help where I can bit nothing has changed. But she did say we have arc flash gear. But noone seems to know where. This isn't the only thing I think our company is missing. We have 4 25ton overhead cranes that noone has been trained on, hooks and straps are not inspected. I found 5 straps tore past the danger cord that I personally cut in half and tossed put because they were still using them. Our spill containment measures for 55gal oil drums is a plastic swimming pool from the dollar store. Needless to say, I don't think osha knows we exist . We sound like a fly by night mom and pop company. But we are in fact a supplier of plastic parts for Toyota and Mitsubishi with multiple plants in the us


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

this sounds like a nightmare
you are doing what you can to make the hr aware of these issues 
get her a copy of the nfpa, and nec code books.
if you get the info for them and have made attempts to heighten the awareness document it.( C.Y.A.)
also conduct basic lo/to training and arc flash awareness training
include your hr people if they want to be involved as it is also good pr for them.
be proactive about how good it will make them appear to corporate hq

if they try to fight you on these things then id suggest moving on.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

cmartin2001 said:


> . Needless to say, I don't think osha knows we exist .


Osha can't see beyond their noses

until there's an incident....

or a complaint...

~CS~


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## SteveHudgik (Mar 1, 2013)

*OSHA Fines For Lack OF LOTO Training*



cmartin2001 said:


> is lock out/ tag out and arc flash mandatory classes in a manufacturing enviroment? im a machine maintenance tech for a new company. the plant has been running 3 years and ive been here 1 year. and there has not been any lo/to classes since its opened. same goes with arc flash. and we are inside electrical panels on a daily basis


LOTO training is mandatory. See the OSHA "Quick Takes" infomation sheet on LOTO at: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/controlhazardousenergy/index.html.
 The wording it uses is: "Employers are also required to train each worker to ensure that they know, understand, and are able to follow the applicable provisions of the hazardous energy control procedures. Workers must be trained in the purpose and function of the energy control program and have the knowledge and skills required for the safe application, usage and removal of the energy control devices."

OSHA is serious about this and issues significant fines. The most recent one I noticed was from January in which Progressive Gourmet was fined for, among other LOTO issues, not providing training.

http://blog.safe-workplace.com/2013/01/osha-fines-massachusetts-food.html


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Contrary to popular belief, OSHA does _not_ police workplaces, but neither are they a "toothless dog" as many others suspect. They are more like Judge Dredd, in that _after_ an accident happens, they will track down the business owners, pass judgement on them for any direct crimes or crimes of ommission and then serve up the punishment on the spot, often resulting in a plant shutdown. This will then of course DIRECTLY affect the wage earners in that plant, so we all have a vested interest in seeing that business owners are made aware of the rules. You can't make them follow them, but you can assess the situation and begin looking for a new employer before something bad happens.


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