# Cordless drill with metal gearbox?



## MDShunk

Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge of any cordless drills, in current production, that have metal gears?

I've freaking had it with Milwaukee cordless drills. I'm a Milwaukee fan, but I've torn up more cordless drills in the last 5 years than I ever hoped to own. I've personally gone through at least 4 or 5 18 volt drills, had a couple 28 volt drills rebuilt (each at least twice) and I just tore up another one yesterday (while drilling 6-5/8" holes with a holesaw in 5/8" drywall). Time for a change. 

The last 18V I tore up, I tried to do some research and came to the conclusion that all cordless drills have plastic gears now. I switched to the 28V on the promise by the Milwaukee rep that they have that sorted out now, and the gearbox is sturdier. Not so, I'm here to tell you. 

I need a bulletproof cordless drill. Survey says.... ?


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## McClary’s Electrical

I' m a Milwaukee fan too, but I tore the gears out of two 18 volt last year. My 28, the gears aren't stripped, it's the clutch, even though the dial is set to drill, the clutch slips. So I got another 28. Three months later, the variable speed trigger quit working. It's either full speed or nothing, which makes it impossible to "start" a bit on a brick wall in a precise location. I have spent tens of thousands on Milwaukee, and thousands on drills alone, and I'm still not satisfied.


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## chenley

I've been using the 18V XRP series DeWalt Hammerdrill combo for the past 3-4 years. Have not had quite as many problems as you have had although the DeWalt drills do have the same clutch problems, which cost more to fix than the drill itself. Currently have two drills that have made it two years.


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## Frasbee

This is a new DeWalt (DCD970) model: http://www.ebuild.com/articles/844783.hwx

However that article claims it has an all metal transmission which I don't know enough about to say if that applies to your all metal gear box.

Googling "all metal gear box drills", Craftsman came up a lot, though I would take that with a grain of salt.

Unfortunately it seems my beloved Bosch does not seem to provide that kind of design in the majority of its' drills with the exception of their impact wrench: http://bosch.cpotools.com/drills/cordless_impact_wrenches/21618.html Though I've dropped my baby drill several times without issues, and my 18 volt hammer hasn't caused any problems either.

Metabo claims to have a "die cast aluminum build" but once again I don't know if that's enough to meet your criteria.

http://www.cpometabo.com/products/602147520.html


EDIT: After looking at my current drill again it also claims to have "all metal gears", http://bosch.cpotools.com/drills/cordless_impact_wrenches/21618.html


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## azsly1

anyone used the metabo cordless kits?


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## BadSplice

The Dewalt:


> In order to meet the jobsite demands of end users, DeWalt designed the drills with an all-steel transmission. The tools have a metal gear case allowing the transmission to dissipate heat and run cooler. Additionally, a steel lockout feature positively locks the tool in drill mode. The frameless motor produces increased airflow through the tool allowing the unit to function more efficiently. The motor also contains replaceable brushes for easy serviceability.


From that it seems that only the case is metal, it doesn't say anything about the gears. Altho the "steel lockout" to keep it in drill mode would help you guys who have clutch slipping problems.

The newest line of Hilti 18V Li-Ion drills are work horses and also pretty expensive, I wonder if they have steel gears?


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## randas

Really? I've never even heard of gears stripping in milwauke drills. I've been quite happy with mine, never had a problem.

What I CAN tell you is, mikita must have a huge problem with plastic gears, because just about everyone I know with one has had to have the gears repaired.


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## Thayer

I have a dewalt 18v XRP that I bought about a year ago and the clutch is already showing signs of wear. About 3 months ago it started to slip out of hammer mode during drilling. It has now reached the point where I have to physically hold the selector to keep in in hammer drill mode. Needless to say it is very irritating. I am planning to try a Hilti on the next round. (At this rate it looks to be pretty soon.)


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## mattsilkwood

the cheaper dewalts still have nylon gears but the higher end ones have metal gears.


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## paul d.

i'm wonderin if it would be worth it to just buy whats on " sale " at the big box stores ??? wear it out , throw it away , and just buy another one ??? expecting 2-3 yrs service out of a tool is obsolete. oh well.


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## BadSplice

Thayer said:


> I have a dewalt 18v XRP that I bought about a year ago and the clutch is already showing signs of wear. About 3 months ago it started to slip out of hammer mode during drilling. It has now reached the point where I have to physically hold the selector to keep in in hammer drill mode. Needless to say it is very irritating. I am planning to try a Hilti on the next round. (At this rate it looks to be pretty soon.)


Unfortunately the HammerDrill function of most 18V drills is just a novelty, something that should only be used once in a while.


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## amptech

I have a Milwaukee M18 1/2" drill/hammer drill that has set thousands of 3/16" Tapcons since March and still works like new.


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## 480sparky

MDShunk said:


> ..........while drilling 6-5/8" holes with a holesaw in 5/8" drywall...............


Right there's your problem. You're putting a 10 ton load on a half-ton truck.

Get a corded ½" drill out and do it right.


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## captkirk

Im right there with you Marc. Im a big Mill fan too. I had to replace my last 28 v drill because the chuck got all tore up. I was going to rebuild it but I said **** it. So I bought a new one (drill only) for 200 bucks. And Ill keep the old one for parts.
As far as bullet proof cordless goes... I dont think they exist. I been listening to fans of all types of drills and it seems to me, for every fan there is a non fan to counter the point. I think the real problem is, us. I can attest that I am very hard on my drills. And Im sure you are too.


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## azsly1

i've had a milwaukee set for 2 years now, the clutch on the drill is damn near inoperable now, the saw-zall just took a dive, and the batteries are damn near shot, but i figure i got my use out of all of it, and money. i've heard good things about the makita kits so i think i'm going to go with that next, 1 reason being the drill and saw are lighter than the milwaukee and since i got a bosch bulldog, i hardly use the hammer function on the cordless anymore...


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## MDShunk

480sparky said:


> Right there's your problem. You're putting a 10 ton load on a half-ton truck.
> 
> Get a corded ½" drill out and do it right.


I refuse. This is 2009. There should be a cordless that can handle it. Put the same gearbox they put in a corded drill, why don't they. I've torn them up drilling 7/8" holes in studs too.


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## TOOL_5150

480sparky said:


> Right there's your problem. You're putting a 10 ton load on a half-ton truck.
> 
> Get a corded ½" drill out and do it right.


Its drywall... not cement. an 18v drill should be able to cut a 6-5/8 hole in drywall...


the dewalt nano series have been pretty good for me. Going on 1 year and no probs.

~Matt


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## 480sparky

MDShunk said:


> I refuse. This is 2009. There should be a cordless that can handle it. Put the same gearbox they put in a corded drill, why don't they. I've torn them up drilling 7/8" holes in studs too.


OK, what speed are you drilling holes at? If you're like most, you're running everything on the high gear and the trigger pulled all the way in.

Try driving your truck in high gear 100% of the time, with the gas pedel welded to the floorboard.

Yeah, its 2009. So what? No one has walked on the moon since *1972*.


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## MDShunk

480sparky said:


> OK, what speed are you drilling holes at? If you're like most, you're running everything on the high gear and the trigger pulled all the way in.


Doesn't matter. Put the same quality gearbox in a cordless drill as they do in a corded drill and *I* won't have any issues. 

The 6-5/8" holes I was drilling yesterday were pretty darned slow. That's sorta what you've gotta do when you saw big holes like that, in case it wants to skip out of the track so you don't tear the finish material up. I think that was more of the "final straw" for that particular drill, rather than cause-effect.


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## MDShunk

480sparky said:


> Yeah, its 2009. So what? No one has walked on the moon since *1972*.


Right, but there's also no compelling need to walk the moon in 2009. I need a cordless with a sturdy gearbox in 2009. They've been making sturdy drill gearboxes since the dawn of electric tools.... until recent years.


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## 480sparky

MDShunk said:


> Right, but there's also no compelling need to walk the moon in 2009. I need a cordless with a sturdy gearbox in 2009. They've been making sturdy drill gearboxes since the dawn of electric tools.... until recent years.


 
And the reason there's no metal gearboxes in cordless drills any more is..................?

And the reason no one has walked on the moon in the last 37 years is....................?



Same answer: Money.


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## MDShunk

This is yet another example of the manufacturers/vendors/retailers telling the consumer what they should settle for rather than the listening to the demands of the professional user. Gas stations don't pump your gas for you or wash you windows, you bag your own groceries now at the grocery store (sometimes you even have to ring them up yourself), you get your own soda at fast food restaurants, and they've started to make tools junkier and expect us to like it. Excuse me, but I refuse to settle. I'll happily pay more for a quality drill... I just need to know which one that might be.


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## 480sparky

MDShunk said:


> This is yet another example of the manufacturers/vendors/retailers telling the consumer what they should settle for rather than the listening to the demands of the professional user. Gas stations don't pump your gas for you or wash you windows, you bag your own groceries now at the grocery store (sometimes you even have to ring them up yourself), you get your own soda at fast food restaurants, and they've started to make tools junkier and expect us to like it. Excuse me, but I refuse to settle. I'll happily pay more for a quality drill... I just need to know which one that might be.


While you're at it, refuse _to pay_ $2.59 for that gallon of gas you pump yourself, $3.49 for that gallon of milk you bag yourself, and $2.29 for that small soda you get from the dispensor yourself. :shifty:

You're preaching to the chior here, Marc. Call the manufacturers. :icon_wink:


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## MDShunk

480sparky said:


> While you're at it, refuse _to pay_ $2.59 for that gallon of gas you pump yourself, $3.49 for that gallon of milk you bag yourself, and $2.29 for that small soda you get from the dispensor yourself. :shifty:
> 
> You're preaching to the chior here, Marc. Call the manufacturers. :icon_wink:


My research so far shows that certain Hilti drills have an all metal gear train and Metabos might be all metal. I can get Metabo from Fastenal, but I'm not sure where to buy Hilti locally


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## electro916

MDShunk said:


> I can get Metabo from Fastenal, but I'm not sure where to buy Hilti locally



I have heard some HD's have Hilti.

Im not sure but check Drivekore.


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## st0mps

i have a cordless hilti 18volt its a beast, the only draw back from it i say is the weight its heavy compare to a dewalt or a rigid screwgun. i dont know about the weight on the new hilti ion series but if you dont mind the weight then i would say get the hilti its a true worker


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## Frasbee

MDShunk said:


> This is yet another example of the manufacturers/vendors/retailers telling the consumer what they should settle for rather than the listening to the demands of the professional user. Gas stations don't pump your gas for you or wash you windows, you bag your own groceries now at the grocery store (sometimes you even have to ring them up yourself), you get your own soda at fast food restaurants, and they've started to make tools junkier and expect us to like it. Excuse me, but I refuse to settle. I'll happily pay more for a quality drill... I just need to know which one that might be.


You can't pump your own gas in Jersey.

Just sayin'.

Oh, and why not look up Bosch?

I've rarely heard a bad thing about them, and I have yet to have a bad experience.


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## electro916

Frasbee said:


> Oh, and why not look up Bosch?
> 
> I've rarely heard a bad thing about them, and I have yet to have a bad experience.



I have had a Bosch Brute tough 18v drill/driver, I hammered it for 3 years, finally burned a connection internally, fixed that with some solder and it lasted for a few more months, but it finally bit the dust after almost 4 years of pounding. 

On the other hand, my father has the 18v Brute tough hammer drill/driver, in less than a year the trigger went, and would only go to full on, so I gave him my trigger.


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## Frasbee

electro916 said:


> I have had a Bosch Brute tough 18v drill/driver, I hammered it for 3 years, finally burned a connection internally, fixed that with some solder and it lasted for a few more months, but it finally bit the dust after almost 4 years of pounding.
> 
> On the other hand, my father has the 18v Brute tough hammer drill/driver, in less than a year the trigger went, and would only go to full on, so I gave him my trigger.


Well there you go.

With just about any brand you'll come across problems like that.

I guess it's not the brand that counts, but how you use it. :jester:


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## captkirk

MDShunk said:


> Right, but there's also no compelling need to walk the moon in 2009. I need a cordless with a sturdy gearbox in 2009. They've been making sturdy drill gearboxes since the dawn of electric tools.... until recent years.


 I really dont think its in their best interest to make a bullet proof drill. Like cars they want us to be repeat customers. Make it last just long enough to satisfiy your needs for a year or so. How else would they make money..?


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## MDShunk

captkirk said:


> I really dont think its in their best interest to make a bullet proof drill. Like cars they want us to be repeat customers. Make it last just long enough to satisfiy your needs for a year or so. How else would they make money..?


Doesn't matter to me. I'm presently shopping for the best cordless drill made. I'm getting sick and tired of fooling around. I was sold what I thought was a 10 ton truck, and I come to find out that I'm using a half ton truck. I want a real 10 ton truck. Ingersoll-Rand makes a couple cordless drills that presently have my interest.


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## MisterCMK

Check out the Bosch drills. We use only Bosch drills at work and we replace the drills because the batteries don't hold a charge rather than the drill itself breaking. Come to think of it, I don't think we've had a Bosch drill fail on us yet.


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## idontknow

I can't recommend buying a dewalt 18volt drill. You will be disappointed a year or 2 later if you do. Yes the transmission systems are all steel, but that doesn't make up for their poor design. Yes it is improved compared to their first generation hammerdrills, but no it still based on a badly flawed design.

All that is IMHO of course.


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## B4T

I've had the 19.2 volt Porter Cable for 8 years and it's still going strong

The low speed has plenty of torque to drill a 4" hole through wood for a dryer vent :thumbsup:

I needed a "see snake" to look for buried splice boxes in an attic and bought the Milwaukee one that comes with a drill for around $260.00

The "see snake" might be good for inspecting pipes, but it sucked royally for searching through the attic 

I used it through holes cut for recessed lights

Was returned the next day


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## knowshorts

I think it was 480 who said he buys a new set every year and sells the old one on ebay. Find a set that lasts a year and your fine.


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## paul d.

why not use a corded 120v type drill when " heavy duty drillin' " ?:blink:


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## MDShunk

paul d. said:


> why not use a corded 120v type drill when " heavy duty drillin' " ?:blink:


Short answer... I don't want to. I want the convenience of a battery drill with a quality drive train.


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## nolabama

MDShunk said:


> Short answer... I don't want to. I want the convenience of a battery drill with a quality drive train.


me too - let me know about the metabo cordless
my 28v milwaukee is on its last leg and the chuck is inopperable at the moment - i dont have tens of thousands to spend on drills to find out if they are quality or not 

speaking of good drills i used an old black and decker corded metal case drill the other day and thought to myself - they (b/d)would go broke if they made this today but wait a minute they didnt go broke in the forty years prior to going to $hit they just decided to make more money off of us and basicaly tell us to go to hell and like what they sell (all manufactures)


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## Frasbee

nolabama said:


> me too - let me know about the metabo cordless
> my 28v milwaukee is on its last leg and the chuck is inopperable at the moment - i dont have tens of thousands to spend on drills to find out if they are quality or not
> 
> speaking of good drills i used an old black and decker corded metal case drill the other day and thought to myself - they (b/d)would go broke if they made this today but wait a minute they didnt go broke in the forty years prior to going to $hit they just decided to make more money off of us and basicaly tell us to go to hell and like what they sell (all manufactures)


I was using an older corded "Industrial Craftsman" sawzall a few months ago, and was really impressed with it. It was all metal, really sturdy. I wonder how much such a durable tool would cost today.


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## nolabama

Frasbee said:


> I was using an older corded "Industrial Craftsman" sawzall a few months ago, and was really impressed with it. It was all metal, really sturdy. I wonder how much such a durable tool would cost today.


prolly about the same - near as i can tell your paying for a licensing agreement to have the tool company's name stamped on the plasitic POS stamping it on a metal POS or a metal durable tool would be no different


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## steelersman

I like Hilti. Oh and Marc your message box is full.


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## user4818

You might give Fisher Price or Tonka a shot.


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## Lone Crapshooter

Forgive me for being old fashon But I have 3 BLACK & DECKER KODIAK battery drills early 90's vintage. These are heavy duty industrial quality drills.when the last battery will not recharge I will never own anouther battery tool. I am sick and tired of being let down by tools when you need them. I find corded tools to be much more user friendly. I have just relpaced the cords on 2 Mlwaukee 3/8 drills that are 30+years old and one Milwaukee Magum hammer drill that I bought in 1984.
When I bought the batteries for the Kodiak drills the guy at the service center told me that those were the best battery drills that have ever been made bar nun If you ever have used one you know what I mean. I have looked on the net and I cannot find the 13.2 volt batteries even rebuilt.
LC


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## Bob Badger

MDShunk said:


> I refuse. This is 2009. There should be a cordless that can handle it. Put the same gearbox they put in a corded drill, why don't they. I've torn them up drilling 7/8" holes in studs too.





TOOL_5150 said:


> Its drywall... not cement. an 18v drill should be able to cut a 6-5/8 hole in drywall...
> 
> 
> the dewalt nano series have been pretty good for me. Going on 1 year and no probs.
> 
> ~Matt


Have you guys even looked at the listed capacities of these drills are, I guarantee they don't list 6" hole saws.

There is a reason I still keep a corded drill on the truck.


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## gilbequick

Lone Crapshooter said:


> Forgive me for being old fashon But I have 3 BLACK & DECKER KODIAK battery drills early 90's vintage. These are heavy duty industrial quality drills.when the last battery will not recharge I will never own anouther battery tool. I am sick and tired of being let down by tools when you need them. I find corded tools to be much more user friendly. I have just relpaced the cords on 2 Mlwaukee 3/8 drills that are 30+years old and one Milwaukee Magum hammer drill that I bought in 1984.
> When I bought the batteries for the Kodiak drills the guy at the service center told me that those were the best battery drills that have ever been made bar nun If you ever have used one you know what I mean. I have looked on the net and I cannot find the 13.2 volt batteries even rebuilt.
> LC



Take the batteries to a "Batteries Plus" retail store and they'll rebuild them for you.


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## iElectrician

Bob Badger said:


> Have you guys even looked at the listed capacities of these drills are, I guarantee they don't list 6" hole saws.
> 
> There is a reason I still keep a corded drill on the truck.


Are you trying to say that a cordless drill can't handle sheetrock...?


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## 480sparky

gilbequick said:


> Take the batteries to a "Batteries Plus" retail store and they'll rebuild them for you.


 
Or _Interstate Batteries_.


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## Bob Badger

iElectrician said:


> Are you trying to say that a cordless drill can't handle sheetrock...?


I am trying to say that the drill is not designed to handle the forces a large hole saw can put on the drill regardless of what your drilling. It is common for a large hole saw to bind while drilling sheet rock or any material. 

Have I used large hole saws in cordless drills?

Of course and I will again but when we decide to overwork our tools we have to accept that is our fault when they fail. 

I would bet that if all of us stayed within the tools listed capacities they would last a lot longer.


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## iElectrician

Bob Badger said:


> I am trying to say that the drill is not designed to handle the forces a large hole saw can put on the drill regardless of what your drilling. It is common for a large hole saw to bind while drilling sheet rock or any material.
> 
> Have I used large hole saws in cordless drills?
> 
> Of course and I will again but when we decide to overwork our tools we have to accept that is our fault when they fail.
> 
> I would bet that if all of us stayed within the tools listed capacities they would last a lot longer.


I completely disagree that using a 6" holesaw to cut sheetrock is any more work than drilling a 3/4" inch hole thru a 2X. I've done both of these actions MANY times and drilling thru the 2X always shows much more resistance on the drill.


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## Bob Badger

iElectrician said:


> I completely disagree that using a 6" holesaw to cut sheetrock is any more work than drilling a 3/4" inch hole thru a 2X. I've done both of these actions MANY times and drilling thru the 2X always shows much more resistance on the drill.



OK, your right, exceeding the listed capacity of the drill is fine and should not lead to it's early demise. :laughing:

I will go back to sweeping floors.


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## iElectrician

Bob Badger said:


> OK, your right, exceeding the listed capacity of the drill is fine and should not lead to it's early demise. :laughing:


Can you please show me where drilling soft, easily pliable materials is excluded on all the drills mentioned here?


> I will go back to sweeping floors.


No need for the drama, thanks.


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## captkirk

There is a little more physics involved than just the density of the material. The fact that the radius exeeds the recomended size of hole you can drill by almost three fold, is enough to put undo pressure on all the gears regardless of the material being drilled.


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## iElectrician

captkirk said:


> There is a little more physics involved than just the density of the material. The fact that the radius exeeds the recomended size of hole you can drill by almost three fold, is enough to put undo pressure on all the gears regardless of the material being drilled.


It might be, but it is solely dependent on the material you are cutting, so in this discussion the density of the material you are cutting is the most important factor. 

What puts more pressure on a drill, a 1" hole thru a 2X or a 3" hole thru styrofoam?


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## Lone Crapshooter

Gilbequick Thanks for the info. Our Batteries Plus is not open yet but it is supposed to be opening soon.
Thanks LC


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## mattsilkwood

Bob Badger said:


> I would bet that if all of us stayed within the tools listed capacities they would last a lot longer.


 well, yea. but that wouldnt be any fun now would it?


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## steelersman

iElectrician said:


> It might be, but it is solely dependent on the material you are cutting, so in this discussion the density of the material you are cutting is the most important factor.
> 
> What puts more pressure on a drill, a 1" hole thru a 2X or a 3" hole thru styrofoam?



Bottom line is that Bob is right. If you can't accept it then just move on. You keep bringing up 1" hole in wood versus a larger hole in styrofoam. I guarantee you that a 6" hole in 5/8ths sheetrock is harder on the drill than a 1" hole in pine.


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## iElectrician

steelersman said:


> Bottom line is that Bob is right. If you can't accept it then just move on. You keep bringing up 1" hole in wood versus a larger hole in styrofoam. I guarantee you that a 6" hole in 5/8ths sheetrock is harder on the drill than a 1" hole in pine.


I only brought up a 1" hole once, the first time was a 3/4" hole. I only brought up styrofoam once. You seem to be making many mistakes right off the bat.

You've made assertions, but you have not brought any evidence to the table. If you know for a fact that Bob is right and you can *guarantee* it as you stated, then you must have some type of evidence, correct?

Until you reveal your source, I am still going to say that a 6" hole in sheetrock is less force than many other actions that are stated in the capacity of most higher end cordless drills. 

I'm not stating this as fact, just my opinion. If your opinion differs, that is fine. But don't be stating facts when you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.


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## steelersman

I don't need to provide any facts. I'm not the one who is having trouble grasping this simple idea.


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## iElectrician

steelersman said:


> I don't need to provide any facts. I'm not the one who is having trouble grasping this simple idea.


 I must admit, I didn't expect much more from you than what you posted.

People who say "I'm right and I guarantee it" with nothing else tend to be on the slower side of the class.


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## steelersman

iElectrician said:


> I must admit, I didn't expect much more from you than what you posted.


Yep. Pretty much the same as you.


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## mikeg_05

Some of the older drywall I have ran into is pretty dense so I could see how using a 6'' hole saw on in a cordless could wear it out. I am all for using a cordless as much as possible, and the clutch in my drill has bitten the dust because of it. If my drill starts having a hard time drilling something, ill grab the hole hawg.


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## MDShunk

Just so I'm clear... I don't just use my cordless drills to drill 6-5/8" holes. I've worn them out drilling holes well within spec. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I exceed the drill's rated capacity on a regular basis. My only lamentation is that a cordless drill is not made with the same gearbox as a similar corded version. I'm simply saying how I want to use a cordless drill, and I'm seeking a cordless drill with a rating that will withstand the duty I will put it to.


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## B4T

steelersman said:


> Bottom line is that Bob is right. If you can't accept it then just move on. You keep bringing up 1" hole in wood versus a larger hole in styrofoam. I guarantee you that a 6" hole in 5/8ths sheetrock is harder on the drill than a 1" hole in pine.


I agree with that^^^^^ :thumbsup:


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## MDShunk

The thing about the big holesaws is the flywheel action. When you let off the trigger, you can hear a defined "ker-thunk" in the gearbox when the spinning stops. I very much suspect that this is where the lion's share of the wear and tear comes from.


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## mattsilkwood

iElectrician said:


> I only brought up a 1" hole once, the first time was a 3/4" hole. I only brought up styrofoam once. You seem to be making many mistakes right off the bat.
> 
> You've made assertions, but you have not brought any evidence to the table. If you know for a fact that Bob is right and you can *guarantee* it as you stated, then you must have some type of evidence, correct?
> 
> Until you reveal your source, I am still going to say that a 6" hole in sheetrock is less force than many other actions that are stated in the capacity of most higher end cordless drills.
> 
> I'm not stating this as fact, just my opinion. If your opinion differs, that is fine. But don't be stating facts when you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.


 what takes more force to turn, a tractor tire or a tire on a small car? 
which takes more force to stop?
it has absolutly nothing to do with the material, its simple physics.

if you take a high torque drill with a 1" hole saw, you can hold it if it binds without too much damage( if you are paying attention). 
now take that same drill with a 6" saw and somethings gonna give, i dont care if its sheetrock or not.


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## MisterCMK

Why not make your own Frankendrill?


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## 480sparky

MisterCMK said:


> Why not make your own Frankendrill?


And call it the Binford 6500.........:laughing:


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## captkirk

I think the reason that they dont come with the same gearbox is because the corded versions require alot more torque to turn. And you have a limitless supply. If the battery ones had the same gearboxes they would probably last for 3 minutes of use.


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## 480sparky

captkirk said:


> I think the reason that they dont come with the same gearbox is because the corded versions require alot more torque to turn. And you have a limitless supply. If the battery ones had the same gearboxes they would probably last for 3 minutes of use.


 
Huh?

The corded drill would have metal gears because there's more power in an AC motor, and that power is always there.

The last sentence of your posts makes it sound like they manufacturer is willing to trash the tool to save the battery.





Here, Marc, get one of these puppies!::


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## nolabama

a call to 1 800 sawdust today reveled that all milwaukee tools have metal gears gearboxes and metal bearings ........ so why is my 28v milwaukee a POS 


and marc why not take the right angle atachment off of the v28 drill and have a cordless d handle drill - its got to be stronger than the v28 hammer drill/driver just a thought


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## captkirk

480sparky said:


> Huh?
> 
> The corded drill would have metal gears because there's more power in an AC motor, and that power is always there.
> 
> The last sentence of your posts makes it sound like they manufacturer is willing to trash the tool to save the battery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, Marc, get one of these puppies!::


I ment that in terms of battery life........not tool life not sure how you came up with that..? but what ever....


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## captkirk

I agree the V28 is not so great. And like an ass I just bought another one. Im just gonna take a little better care of this one. No more 6 inch holes with the hole saw. I didnt feel like getting a new system. I already have 18v nicade and 28v lith. 18 volt dewalt at home.


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## Bob Badger

captkirk said:


> There is a little more physics involved than just the density of the material. *The fact that the radius exeeds the recomended size of hole you can drill by almost three fold, is enough to put undo pressure on all the gears regardless of the material being drilled*.



Thank you. :thumbsup:

I was going to go into it but I could tell iElectrician had his mind made up.


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## Bob Badger

mattsilkwood said:


> well, yea. but that wouldn't be any fun now would it?


No it would not be. :no:

I think I have used 6 7/8" hole saws in a battery drill to cut ceiling tiles. :whistling2:


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## macmikeman

And now its time for a mactip.... When cutting out for 6" Halo cans a spool of #12 or 14 will make a perfect template to trace. If you put a dot or an x where the center is, you can look up thru the hole and see where to put the spool to line it up. Course a circle cutter or a circle marker works just fine as well, but mine is somehow always hard to locate when I need it. There is always wire spools handy. I cut with a cordless roto-zip.


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## steelersman

macmikeman said:


> When cutting out for 6" Halo cans a spool of #12 or 14 will make a perfect template to trace.



I always just use the template that comes with the can. It's so easy to use.


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## Chris Kennedy

I highly recommend the Hilti SFH 18-A. I find the previous model SFH 181-A to be super rugged. Have the Hilti rep call the Hilti Center and ask for a second drill for$50. You get 2 drills, 2 cases, 2 batteries and the charger for $480, thats after taxes. IMO, the best you can get in 2009.


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## steelersman

Yep. Hilti is the best in my opinion. I have an 18v nicad hilti. It's about 3 years old and still kicking ass.


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## B4T

steelersman said:


> I always just use the template that comes with the can. It's so easy to use.


Using a baffle from an Atlite A149 fixture works even better

Just cut to the inside of the line for a perfect fit :thumbsup:


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## steelersman

Yeah well, considering I've never heard of that it must be "obscure" so therefore making it not as convenient and not as good as the template that comes with the can.


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## MF Dagger

Halo usually sticks 3 or 4 templates in each remodel can.


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## Jim Port

Hitachi is offering a 10 yr warranty on their Li-On line of cordless with 2 years for the batteries.

DeWalt service centers have a $99 maximum price rebuild option for your tools. Cheaper than a new $300 hammer drill.


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## gilbequick

Jim Port said:


> DeWalt service centers have a $99 maximum price rebuild option for your tools. Cheaper than a new $300 hammer drill.


Yeah but it's the principal. I don't want a drill that I've got to repair twice a year (my personal experience with Dewalt). It's a PITA and you feel like you're getting ripped off. I'd rather buy something new every 2 years than keep repairing the same drill.


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## LJSMITH1

A 6" + hole saw cutting drywall will certainly require much more torque than a 7/8" bit cutting through a 2x4. Its the reactionary torque resistance that is eating up the clutches and transmissions in these cordless drills. Everytime the drill goes from spinning freely, to an abrupt stall, or has significant centrifugal loading on the chuck (i.e. like a flywheel), the gear train experiences tooth shear forces near or above the design limits.

As you all know, one of the primary selection features of any cordless drill is weight, followed by runtime. Manufacturers can save significant weight by changing steel gears to die cast zinc or to plastics - or a hybrid of all three materials. However, any design will have a limitation on how much resistance to torque the gear train can handle without breaking gear teeth. Corded drills, by design, are heavier duty, and heavier to boot. They can also handle torque resistance much better than a lightweight cordless model. They also have much higher torque outputs (in excess of 900 in-lbs).

Bottom line is that there may never be a cordless drill out there with ALL the features folks want, plus a bulletproof transmission that has a torque resistance comparable to a corded model. 

Also, if you are going to use a cordless drill for drilling 6" holes in drywall, use the low speed setting. The gear reduction will improve the overall handling of the torque resistance, and extend the life of the drill.


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## nolabama

that iqv ingersoll rand drill looks like a stud and price point aint to bad either


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## MarkyMark

The only plastic gear on nearly all battery drills is the outer ring gear that shifts in and out when you are changing drill speeds. The inner planetary gears are almost always all metal. Only on the really cheap Harbor Freight drills are a some of the inner spur gears plastic, but they do not see enough torque to ever shear or break.

It is not hard to swap out a drill transmission or clutch if they fail. Both Dewalt and Milwaukee are very easy to buy parts from. Transmissions or motors usually cost $20.00 to $30.00 each plus shipping.


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## mikeg_05

The craftsman professional line says it uses an all metal gear box. Anyone use these tools, I know the standard craftsman series screams harry homeowner but what do you think of the professional line


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## MDShunk

mikeg_05 said:


> The craftsman professional line says it uses an all metal gear box. Anyone use these tools, I know the standard craftsman series screams harry homeowner but what do you think of the professional line


The ease of getting parts and service is what worries me the most, when buying strange brands.


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## paul d.

MDShunk said:


> The ease of getting parts and service is what worries me the most, when buying strange brands.


 :blink: battery drills are kinda like televisions and microwaves. use em and then throw away when broke/worn out.


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## steelersman

Exactly what I've been thinking this entire thread.


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## MDShunk

paul d. said:


> :blink: battery drills are kinda like televisions and microwaves. use em and then throw away when broke/worn out.


Yes, because the quality is so poor, that's what we have been trained to do. The whole point of this thread was to, hopefully, ferret out a standout in this category. For instance, Curtis Mathis was a standout in the television category. Amana was the standout in the Microwave category.

Our customers are always demanding increasing levels of service from us, so I'm not sure why we so easily accept less service from others. I've left entire cartloads of groceries sit at the checkout of the grocery store when I found out that all they had open was the self-checkout lanes.


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## Bob Badger

MDShunk said:


> I've left entire cartloads of groceries sit at the checkout of the grocery store when I found out that all they had open was the self-checkout lanes.


You may have to start heading to the forest for your food, we are currently installing 100s of self scans in supermarkets. :laughing:

At first I felt as you, but considering the language barrier between me and the typical check out person I am using the self scans more and more. 

I have never had to wait in line while the 'self scan' trimmed it's finger nails right at the register, can't say that has not happened with human checkers. :blink:


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## paul d.

never quite understand why a big grocery store has 40-50 people working inthe store and only 1 (! ) to get the money !!!! :blink:


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## MDShunk

Bob Badger said:


> You may have to start heading to the forest for your food, we are currently installing 100s of self scans in supermarkets. :laughing:


Is there much to them other than a power drop and a LAN drop?


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## nolabama

MDShunk said:


> Our customers are always demanding increasing levels of service from us, so I'm not sure why we so easily accept less service from others. I've left entire cartloads of groceries sit at the checkout of the grocery store when I found out that all they had open was the self-checkout lanes.


me to


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## MDShunk

paul d. said:


> never quite understand why a big grocery store has 40-50 people working inthe store and only 1 (! ) to get the money !!!! :blink:


I'd happily wait in line for the one person to get my money. During certain hours, many stores don't have a single person... only the self-checkout. Those things tick me off. 

I do, however, like the touch screens many convenience stores have to order sandwiches and salads and stuff. They're very efficient. The self-checkouts... no so much.


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## Bob Badger

MDShunk said:


> Is there much to them other than a power drop and a LAN drop?


Just as easy as you imagine and in most cases it is a replacement of an existing full serve lane. 

Many are supplied underground with Walker ducts the locations may move a bit.


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## RCRPWR

*RErills*



MDShunk said:


> Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge of any cordless drills, in current production, that have metal gears?
> 
> I've freaking had it with Milwaukee cordless drills. I'm a Milwaukee fan, but I've torn up more cordless drills in the last 5 years than I ever hoped to own. I've personally gone through at least 4 or 5 18 volt drills, had a couple 28 volt drills rebuilt (each at least twice) and I just tore up another one yesterday (while drilling 6-5/8" holes with a holesaw in 5/8" drywall). Time for a change.
> 
> The last 18V I tore up, I tried to do some research and came to the conclusion that all cordless drills have plastic gears now. I switched to the 28V on the promise by the Milwaukee rep that they have that sorted out now, and the gearbox is sturdier. Not so, I'm here to tell you.
> 
> I need a bulletproof cordless drill. Survey says.... ?





Get a Dewalt they last longer
I have 2 and a Milwuakee hamer drill the clutch sticks alot on the Milwauakee especially drilling though concrete walls.
Both are Hammer 18 to 14 volt drills and just hanging a simple outbox or run of conduit can be a real pain in. The Dewalt is alot better and hardly stickks when changing gears. I had to have the Milwaukee fixed twice already. The Dewalt keeps on kickin.
I like :thumbsup:the Dewalt is bulletproof over Milwaukee.
Especially hanging panels,lighting fixtures,and conduit runs.

:rockon:


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## paul d.

if drillin a lot of holes in concrete, you need a REAL, corded hammer drill. nuthin else is gonna work. i push a battery tool as far as possible, but they do have limitations.


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## lynx82

MDShunk said:


> Yes, because the quality is so poor, that's what we have been trained to do. The whole point of this thread was to, hopefully, ferret out a standout in this category. For instance, Curtis Mathis was a standout in the television category. Amana was the standout in the Microwave category.
> 
> Our customers are always demanding increasing levels of service from us, so I'm not sure why we so easily accept less service from others. I've left entire cartloads of groceries sit at the checkout of the grocery store when I found out that all they had open was the self-checkout lanes.


Thats great, I got to depot at 5:55 this morning just as they were opening, so I go do what I gotta do and at about 6:15 not a single register open, just a lady standing there watching the self checkouts. I happen to catch the morning meeting or whatever when I walked in and there had to be 60 people working and they can't put 2 people at a checkout. It's ********.

I have the dewalt xrp 18v for myelf and the cordless sawzall. Pretty nice but it already is clunky changing between the 3 gear(torque) levels. It was from depot and marked made in mexico. It was on sale for 199 for the drill sawzall and two 18 volt xrp batteries with charger and bag. As far as battery longevity and power I havent seen anything 18volt better than the dewalt xrps.

I've used 18v milwalkees and didn't like them at all. The ultra low profile makitas seem nice as hell, I've only borowed them once or twice and liked them from that little bit.


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## Protech

To the OP, my Milwaukee 28v drill is all metal gears, same kit for 5 years now. The rheostat finally went. Other than the trigger not going to the end of it's resistance range, I've not had any problems. Just to be clear, I have beaten the living heck out of this drill every day of it's miserable life. I’m just going to order a new rheostat for it and I’ll keep on putting paddle bits in it. I’ll let ya know when I finally do strip a gear.


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## randomkiller

I have had an assortment (hammer drills, sawzalls, impact guns, impact hammer, bandsaw, 1/2" RAG) of Milwaukee 18v nicad tools on my truck for about three years now, with me and whatever apprentice using them on different jobsites and the temperature swings in the back of a pick up all of them are holding up better than any other brands we have in the crib.


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## Michael Winters

With the new lithium-ion powered drills we decided to switch to get more power from lighter drills and more holes per battery charge. We bought a new Makita, new Milwaukee M18, a new Hitachi, and a DeWalt XRP DCD970 and had our guys use them for the past two months. We learned a lot by comparing the drills. Hitachi was the quick reject as it has a chuck that drops bits all the time and has the least power and stalls the most. Makita's have long been a favorite as they hold up better than any other drill we have used over the years but their latest LXT model does not seem to really put out the power their specs would lead one to believe. 

The Milwaukee M18 has the most power according to its specs and the smoothest clutch, and a great all metal gearbox, but has overly sensitive overload protection and only a 2-speed ranges. The M18 also has the same kind of side handle mount as the new Ridgid 18v drill which can only be mounted at exactly 90 degrees to the main handle. When I am drilling in very tough material and really need two hands to keep everything under control I like to have the side handle at less than 90 degrees and with the Milwaukee and Ridgid drills I can't do this.

The DeWalt XRP did not start out as anyone's favorite but after its first month of use by the different crews it is now the top choice of everyone. It’s 3-speed gearbox really makes a very big difference in performance. Number 2 and 3 settings are like 1 and 2 for other drills, the XRP has what amounts to a granny gear that delivers a lot more usable torque from the motor and battery pack. 


check this out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jb-7fgDW_U


With the lithium-ion batteries there is a draw limit or they overheat and a safety circuit cuts out power or they discharge faster and you don't get as much useful work out of a charge. Being able to use the ultra low range on the DeWalt with large hole saws or drill bits makes a big difference and often the holes actually get cut just as fast as their is no stalling (quite noticeable with the Makita, Hitachi, and Milwaukee lithium-ion drills). 

We have cut 6-1/4" holes in 1-1/8" subflooring and through stucco & OSB using the DeWalt and Blue Boar TCT hole cutters and we could not have done it any faster with a Milwaukee Hawg stud drill. Actually I prefer the DeWalt cordless as it is a lot easier to control if the drill binds up and a heck of a lot safer than the Hawg. 

I have come to realize that to get the most out of a cordless drill the 3-speed gearbox is key to staying within the comfort zone of the drill motor and the battery pack. I see now that using new modern cordless drills with old fashioned hole saws and self feed bits and expecting good performance was not very bright on my part. The right hole cutter makes a huge difference in performance, and in the long run on the life of the drill. I figure if it takes 10 times as long to drill a hole by using a bi-metal hole saw or self feed bit, that this is also shortening the drill’s life by 90%. The easiest thing to do is use a modern hole cutter that puts a lot less stress on the drill and provides much better performance.

We cut a hole in 1-1/8" Sturd-I subflooring using a new Lenox bi-metal hole saw and it took a couple minutes which was no surprise and burned the wood which was also no surprise but when we recharged the M18 we had used it took more than 30 minutes to get back to a full charge. We tried using a new Milwaukee Selfeed bit and it still took 40 seconds to bore a hole through the subflooring and it too took a lot out of the battery. We had a Blue Boar TCT hole cutter that one of our guys had been using all week and I tried it out and the next hole took 10 seconds, as did the rest of the holes we cut and continued to cut using the same battery pack for the rest of the day. 

Charge times for the different batteries varies quite a bit. The Milwaukee M18 takes 45 minutes, Hitachi about 30 minutes, and DeWalt and Makita both take less than 15 minutes. With DeWalt and the Makita drills we only need one spare battery pack on the job. 

We have learned to use the M18 drills differently and when using "hungry" hole cutters like the Blue Boar TCT that we need to start slowly to avoid the overload protection taking over. The DeWalt XRP drills have been the best overall with one exception. The XRP chuck tends to lock up and we need to use a small pair of channel locks to loosen it. We have decided to go with the DeWalt DCD970 drills and the Blue Boar TCT hole cutters for all our trucks and after all our testing are pretty confident we are making the right choice – no doubts whatsoever about the Blue Boar hole cutters though.


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## rando

MDShunk said:


> Right, but there's also no compelling need to walk the moon in 2009. I need a cordless with a sturdy gearbox in 2009. They've been making sturdy drill gearboxes since the dawn of electric tools.... until recent years.


The new Li-ion HILTI cordless drills ALL have ALL-metal gears and gearboxes.:thumbup:
www.us.hilti.com

1-800-879-8000 to talk with a product manager, not the customer service rep. 
I won't offer an opinion on the Hilti vs. Dewalt debate. All I want to say has been said before. It's a matter of choice and who wouldn't want the best? Espicially if it made your job easier and more productive?


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## Johnpaul

Problem with Hilti is the price and availability through only Hilti stores. Home Depot carries only the 15.6 volt models which like the 14.4 volt provide no real advantage over the 18 volt drills. Some of the 14.4 volt drills are actually heavier than the 18 volt models from the same company. 

DeWalt's DCD970 has an all metal gearbox but that is not a cure-all. Car engines last a lot longer these days and it is due to both the better alloys and the use of ceramics and sintered metals. 

What kills our drills is gypsum and concrete dust that gets inside the drill and using shields when drilling these materials has helped prolong the life of our drills and our guys breathe easier too. 

In the past with NiCad drills we spent more over time on replacing the batteries than we did on buying the drills so we hope that with lithium-ion batteries we can use fewer batteries and that they will last longer - at least that is the theory.


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## steelersman

I bought my 18v Hilti from Home Depot a few years ago. Maybe they stopped carrying them some time after I bought mine.


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## BigJohn20

steelersman said:


> I bought my 18v Hilti from Home Depot a few years ago. Maybe they stopped carrying them some time after I bought mine.


They only carry Hilti at the larger stores these days.


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## rando

THe Hilti cordless tools available at certain Home Depots vary from the 15.6 v ni-cad to the 18-A li-ion. They carry the 12v and 14.4 v impact driver as well. There are over 300 Home Depots around the country that carry a mini Hilti store inside the Home Depot. True, you can not buy Hilti at every one, but they have the best warranty for their tools...period. When and if you do have to use it, it includes free shipping, free repair during the warranty period and a cost limit after the warranty expires. 
Hilti is the best tool available, period. Hilti is only expensive if you never use it.


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## steelersman

I agree about Hilti being of top quality. I do disagree though about what HD sells as far as Hilti. My 18v is Ni-Cad and you said they only carry 18v Lith-Ion.


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## drsparky

A little trivia, Hilti’s world headquarters is in Liechtenstein and it is Liechtenstein's largest employer.


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## rando

steelersman said:


> I agree about Hilti being of top quality. I do disagree though about what HD sells as far as Hilti. My 18v is Ni-Cad and you said they only carry 18v Lith-Ion.


The 18-A li-ion came out this past Feb. You have a 181, which is the ni-cad. THe new 18-A is what is currently being sold, as well as a new 18v li-ion recip saw. Again, they still have ni-cad, for their 12v and 15.6v drills, but I think their push is to go all li-ion by end 2010, including new tools in the cordless lineup.


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## Grimlock

captkirk said:


> I really dont think its in their best interest to make a bullet proof drill. Like cars they want us to be repeat customers. Make it last just long enough to satisfiy your needs for a year or so. How else would they make money..?


 
Just like vacuums, every vacuum I've ever owned (many brands) ended up being a pile in the end. You can't buy a decent vacuum anymore. Come to think of it, just about all products are the same now days...


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## steelersman

My Dyson vacuum is still kicking ass and we've had it for probably 4 years now.


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## Grimlock

steelersman said:


> My Dyson vacuum is still kicking ass and we've had it for probably 4 years now.


The Kirby’s are pretty good as a brand now that I think about it, very expensive though.


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## steelersman

I'll stick with the Dyson. I can't see myself dropping more than a couple hundred for a vacuum.


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## BuzzKill

Grimlock said:


> Just like vacuums, every vacuum I've ever owned (many brands) ended up being a pile in the end. You can't buy a decent vacuum anymore. Come to think of it, just about all products are the same now days...


 planned obsolescence


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## user4818

Grimlock said:


> You can't buy a decent vacuum anymore. Come to think of it, just about all products are the same now days...[


You can, but you have to go to a vacuum shop or janitorial supply and pay about $500 for one.


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## Stan B.

I have no firsthand experience with these drills, but you might want to get more information on drills made by Festool:

http://www.festoolusa.com/default.aspx 

Be forewarned, they are rather expensive. I think they are made in Germany. Whether that translates in any way to any increased robustness is the question - one might just be paying for the features which may not even be desirable to you.


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## MickeyG

480sparky said:


> Right there's your problem. You're putting a 10 ton load on a half-ton truck.
> 
> Get a corded ½" drill out and do it right.


He drilling drywall and he needs to get a corded drill out. I would think there is another problem


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## Wirenuting

MickeyG said:


> He drilling drywall and he needs to get a corded drill out. I would think there is another problem


This is a Zombie thread. It’s older then you are.


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## MickeyG

Wirenuting said:


> This is a Zombie thread. It’s older then you are.


I hope not


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## CMP

Zombies can be good, I have a couple of old Milwaukee Magnum 12V nicad models, all metal geartrain and case, threw out the cheap chuck's that came with them and put on some industrial Jacobs keyed Chuck's.

Bad to the bone tools same as the Magnum holes hooters. After Milwaukee stopped supporting the batteries years ago, the chinamen came out with new lithium batteries that work on the old nicad chargers. Now there better than ever, more than 20 years old and still my favorite.

It would run a 6" wholesaw in gypsum board no problem. I can run a 2.5" Holecutters on 10Ga enclosures no problem. I will be bummed if they ever breakdown, they haven't been supported in many years.


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