# Lost My Job



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> I was working on Scott AFB.Office furnature was being replaced,I was to unhook power poles Another company changed the furnature, then reinstall power. Upon checking the conduit feeding these ciucuits I discovered the conduit coming out of the panel had the 1 hole straps removed and the conduit had been forceably pushed aside cracking 2 3/4" couplings.I brought this up to the bldg. matinence director. He said they would fix it.I asked when, He said at a later date, I called my boss He brought me a wavier the base had to sign. I told my boss I would not hook Up conduit that was not to code,I was fired.


 


as you should have been


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> I was working on Scott AFB.Office furnature was being replaced,I was to unhook power poles Another company changed the furnature, then reinstall power. Upon checking the conduit feeding these ciucuits I discovered the conduit coming out of the panel had the 1 hole straps removed and the conduit had been forceably pushed aside cracking 2 3/4" couplings.I brought this up to the bldg. matinence director. He said they would fix it.I asked when, He said at a later date, I called my boss He brought me a wavier the base had to sign. I told my boss I would not hook Up conduit that was not to code,I was fired.


That was dumb to get yourself fired :no:

You did all the right things and the waiver was the one thing that gave the problem to someone else.

Next time listen to the guy who signs your pay check.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I agree. Its not your license so if he doesnt mind than just do it.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

reddog552 said:


> I was working on Scott AFB.Office furnature was being replaced,I was to unhook power poles Another company changed the furnature, then reinstall power. Upon checking the conduit feeding these ciucuits I discovered the conduit coming out of the panel had the 1 hole straps removed and the conduit had been forceably pushed aside cracking 2 3/4" couplings.I brought this up to the bldg. matinence director. He said they would fix it.I asked when, He said at a later date, I called my boss He brought me a wavier the base had to sign. I told my boss I would not hook Up conduit that was not to code,I was fired.


Which section was in violation? 

Next time just pour a bunch of cement over it.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

You made a fuss over two 3/4" couplings that were cracked, and refused to hook up power. That was not your decision to make.

Yup, I'd probably fire you too.


----------



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Conduit does not meat code*

358.30 conduit was not securly fastened for over 15', 358.42 couplings were not made tight they were not even whole couplings,parts were cracked off. HOW can u wavier the NEC & National fire code? This whole job was screwed up wire nuts on Bx no boxes,conduit was also used as GEC.I thought it was MY responsibility to ensure the saftey of these people.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm with you reddog. You did the right thing. These guys here are so full of it my computer is bogging down.

If any of you think that a waiver is going to absolve you from responsibility you are nuts. 

So you guys would knowingly violate the code because you thought you could not be held responsible?

That is very surprising.

I'd be happy to get the boot from this hack. Your better off reddog. Sadly, in this society we have no room for people doing the right thing. We now cater the the lowlifes, scumbags, and just plain worthless.


BTW it's SWAYZE and FARRAH, if you're going to be a smart ass, at least get it right. :laughing:


----------



## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> BTW it's SWAYZE and FARRAH, if you're going to be a smart ass, at least get it right. :laughing:


 
And also BTW I think it's barry soetoro not barrack obama, not that we know who is really in the WH as of yet anyway.


----------



## wishmaster68 (Aug 27, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> 358.30 conduit was not securly fastened for over 15', 358.42 couplings were not made tight they were not even whole couplings,parts were cracked off. HOW can u wavier the NEC & National fire code? This whole job was screwed up wire nuts on Bx no boxes,conduit was also used as GEC.I thought it was MY responsibility to ensure the saftey of these people.


Don't forget 90.1


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

There are many ways to skin a cat. taking care of your boss, and doing the job right are two good things. I worked for a cheap bastard for some time, and there were times that I would fix things correctly, then tell him what I had done and that he should charge them a little extra for the additional work, even if I had to hear the crap about why did it take me so long. If the fix was quick, I might fix it to be right and never tell him if he was being an ass that particular day (assuming the fix was pennies not dollars). 

You have to walk the fine line. If I was pushed into the situation you describe, I might have tried to get an egc in the pipe so the installation was at least safe, put some straps on the pipe, and red tagged (litereally -with red tape or red flagging) every violation, and taken pictures before I left. As you have seen from the above posts, you are there to do the bidding of the person you work for. Being a pain in the butt to him, and also to the client, is not an option. You need to be a problem solver, not a problem. By getting the equipment energized for the client, you would have made them happy, and they very well may have had you guys come back and fix the issues. The job was to somehow get the client energized, and you didn't get that done.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Reddog you did the right thing. Too bad it cost you your job. Principles and bars seem to be set pretty low lately, especially here on ET.

In California, if a JW knowingly completes an installation that is a violation and that installation subsequently causes injury or damage to persons or property, the JW can be held criminaly liable.

All this talk of you should have just done what your told, well, it reeks of two words most used by this group of "just git 'er done."

Kool-Aid.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

JayH said:


> Reddog you did the right thing. Too bad it cost you your job. Principles and bars seem to be set pretty low lately, especially here on ET.
> 
> In California, if a JW knowingly completes an installation that is a violation and that installation subsequently causes injury or damage to persons or property, the JW can be held criminaly liable.
> 
> ...


 


He didn't knowingly complete this installation,,,,,all this mess was already there, this place had been in operation for a while, they wanted to turn off power long enough to change out some office furniture and TURN IT BACK ON,,,,,this guy comes in and sees a few cracked coupling and flips out. EVERY PLACE I GO I see violations. You can't walk in a factory, office, or any where else and point out stuff. You are simply making work for yourself. or simply a person that loves drama, which I think is the case with the op, finding the building super, calling his boss, then posting it on here. He's a queen, and got what he deserved. Insubordination, is insubordination, no matter how you sugar coat it.


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

reddog552 said:


> I brought this up to the bldg. matinence director. He said they would fix it.I asked when, He said at a later date, I called my boss He brought me a wavier the base had to sign. I told my boss I would not hook Up conduit that was not to code,I was fired.


As long as maintenance knew about it and a waiver was signed, you have to do what your boss says, despite your protests; I mean, who is in charge here? Not you.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Its not your license, its not your problem. Let this be your lesson, the guy with the license and signs the checks gets to call the shots. Its his a$$ on the line


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> He didn't knowingly complete this installation,,,,,all this mess was already there, this place had been in operation for a while, they wanted to turn off power long enough to change out some office furniture and TURN IT BACK ON,,,,,this guy comes in and sees a few cracked coupling and flips out. EVERY PLACE I GO I see violations. You can't walk in a factory, office, or any where else and point out stuff. You are simply making work for yourself. or simply a person that loves drama, which I think is the case with the op, finding the building super, calling his boss, then posting it on here. *He's a queen,* and got what he deserved. Insubordination, is insubordination, no matter how you sugar coat it.


 
I agree with almost all of this post.

There were no life threatening issues here and the "powers in charge" were made aware of these problems.

Either you work for a boss and follow orders, or you get your License and start your own business.

Try telling a bank you can't pay your bills because you were unfairly fired and see what happens


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> I was to unhook power poles Another company changed the furnature, then reinstall power. Upon checking the conduit feeding these ciucuits I discovered the conduit coming out of the panel had the 1 hole straps removed and the conduit had been forceably pushed aside cracking 2 3/4" couplings.I brought this up to the bldg. matinence director. He said they would fix it.I asked when, He said at a later date, I called my boss He brought me a wavier the base had to sign. I told my boss I would not hook Up conduit that was not to code,I was fired.


I don't know how or why he saw or realized this was a faulty installation, since he did not post that he intentionally went out of his way to find a defective installation, merely that he saw the conduit was faulty.

We also don't know that he was not the only JW on the job was not interacting with the BM Director before this fault was found.

Pretty harsh accustions of insubordination towards someone apparently trying to install electrical in a safe a legal manner.

But whatever.


----------



## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

**** rolls downhill. lawsuits don't. let your boss get in trouble. this was definitely not worth getting the hassle. i am truly sorry you lost your job though, maybe you could talk to him again and clear things up?


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

edward said:


> **** rolls downhill. lawsuits don't.


That's completely untrue. Any lawyer worth his salt would surely name the electrician who worked on it last and knowingly left the installation without a ground in the suit. Hell, he even signed a piece of paper admitting that he KNEW that the installation was faulty. 

Just because it said "waiver" it doesn't mean that it will protect you, certainly not from a civil suit. Is your house and family's future worth working for a shady company?

Nevermind the fact that in some jurisdictions the journeyman is responsible for his work...


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

JayH said:


> I don't know how or why he saw or realized this was a faulty installation, since he did not post that he intentionally went out of his way to find a defective installation, merely that he saw the conduit was faulty.
> 
> We also don't know that he was not the only JW on the job was not interacting with the BM Director before this fault was found.
> 
> ...


 



As I said, sugar coat it as you may, but what he did was nothing less than insubordination, and he deserves nothing less than what he got. As posted by other poster, IF,,,key word, IF he played his cards right,,,,they would have gotten the repair work, along with this work, insted, what they did was undoubtedly delay a project for unneeded reasons. And the reason I know they were unneeded reasons is,TWO other PROFESSIONALS looked at it, his boss, and the super, and they weren't concerend. I've met the type of person the OP is. They make a big deal out of everything, and take forever to get anything done. In fact, Id bet money this was NOT the first run in with the boss.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

edward said:


> **** rolls downhill. lawsuits don't. let your boss get in trouble. this was definitely not worth getting the hassle. i am truly sorry you lost your job though, maybe you could talk to him again and clear things up?


FYI 

That lawsuit will follow you in California.

Just in case you do ever decide to work for an unscrupulous contractor in CA (there will be plenty to choose from.)


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> That's completely untrue. Any lawyer worth his salt would surely name the electrician who worked on it last and knowingly left the installation without a ground in the suit. Hell, he even signed a piece of paper admitting that he KNEW that the installation was faulty.
> 
> Just because it said "waiver" it doesn't mean that it will protect you, certainly not from a civil suit. Is your house and family's future worth working for a shady company?
> 
> Nevermind the fact that in some jurisdictions the journeyman is responsible for his work...


 



Again,,,,the installation WAS NOT FAULTY,,,,,,,this place had been in operation for a long time. This was a maintenance issue, that in fact, was noe of his concern. (which I think the building super hinted to him)


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> As I said, sugar coat it as you may, but what he did was nothing less than insubordination,


You are completely correct, he didn't listen when he was told to complete a dangerous and illegal installation. You label it insubordination, I say it's integrity. I'm glad we have people willing to stand up and be sure an installation is safe instead of being swayed by his boss' gredd.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Again,,,,the installation WAS NOT FAULTY,,,,,,,this place had been in operation for a long time. This was a maintenance issue, that in fact, was noe of his concern. (which I think the building super hinted to him)


None of that is true, but you can keep telling yourself that it is. It's apparent that you're out on a witch hunt.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Since when are cracked couplings not considered faulty??


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

JayH said:


> Since when are cracked couplings not considered faulty??


Especially when the pipe is the only GEC.

If they were actually going to repair it, they would have done it there and then, nice and simple.. They only got the waiver because they knew they were going to leave it like that to save the money.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

JayH said:


> Since when are cracked couplings not considered faulty??


 

The key word was installation,,,,,,,not faulty

It was not a faulty INSTALLATION,,,,because it had been there before he got there.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Here's the deal... when you work for someone, decisions like this are not yours to make. Period.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Here's the deal... when you work for someone, decisions like this are not yours to make. Period.


 
That may be true in PA (which I doubt, but since I do not work there, I will have to take your word for it) but in California it may cost you to jeopardize life and property in such a negligent manner.

Ethically, I find him beyond reproach. But that's just me.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Here's the deal... when you work for someone, decisions like this are not yours to make. Period.


I agree with you and I think the state of MA agrees with you.



> PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT
> 
> TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER
> 
> ...


That reads to me that if the boss tells me to ignore a cracked coupling that he is liable for that violation.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

That simply reads the employer is liable. I'm not reading absolution of liability on the employees part in that portion quoted.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Again,,,,the installation WAS NOT FAULTY,,,,,,,this place had been in operation for a long time. This was a maintenance issue, that in fact, was noe of his concern. (which I think the building super hinted to him)


I may have misread, but I thought he said the pipe was the egc. That being the case, the installation would have been dangerous. Just because his boss may be liable, does not mean that he (the worker) is NOT liable (assuming litigation took place). What a building super says can pretty much be dismissed as nonsense, jibberish, or useless conversation. Regardless, yes he should have gotten the thing lit up somehow with an adequate ground and proof that the bldg owner representative knew the violations and accepted them.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

The fact is, you'll be hard pressed to find any cases where the actual workman on any job was hauled into court under his personal name for any civil or criminal actions resulting from non-compliant work.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> The fact is, you'll be hard pressed to find any cases where the actual workman on any job was hauled into court under his personal name for any civil or criminal actions resulting from non-compliant work.


 
Oh. Well then, carry on.


----------



## GoodLookingUglyGuy (Feb 3, 2010)

I say the Op was correct in stating that he could not connect to this previous installation. you were wrongfully terminated and you have yourself a lawsuit. I say join the ibew and never have to worry about that again. If my understanding is correct of the rcw ( revised code of Washington ) you can loose your electrical license for knowingly hook up faulty or damaged circuits. Even if they are pre existing. I would contact the ahj and let them know of these practices. and to all the yahoos who says he deserved getting terminated please post your business name and location so that I know never to consider working for you.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

GoodLookingUglyGuy said:


> I say the Op was correct in stating that he could not connect to this previous installation. you were wrongfully terminated and you have yourself a lawsuit. I say join the ibew and never have to worry about that again. If my understanding is correct of the rcw ( revised code of Washington ) you can loose your electrical license for knowingly hook up faulty or damaged circuits. Even if they are pre existing. I would contact the ahj and let them know of these practices. and to all the yahoos who says he deserved getting terminated please post your business name and location so that I know never to consider working for you.


I think you missed the part of his post that said he was working at an AFB.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

wildleg said:


> I think you missed the part of his post that said he was working at an AFB.


Right, and on military bases, everything you know about the code can, and often does, go out the window. They have their own song book they sing from. They are their own AHJ. Some of their rules are very strict, and seemingly odd. They also have the authority to overlook just about anything they want to.

When this second gulf war started getting hot and heavy, I did a bunch of work on a base in some buildings that rebuild humvees that are all shot up and blown up. The rule was, get this stuff online NOW, and we'll make it right little by little as we have time. That's exactly what was done. I got as much of their stuff powered as I could, and made things pretty off and on until this very day.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> That's completely untrue. Any lawyer worth his salt would surely name the electrician who worked on it last and knowingly left the installation without a ground in the suit. Hell, he even signed a piece of paper admitting that he KNEW that the installation was faulty.
> 
> Just because it said "waiver" it doesn't mean that it will protect you, certainly not from a civil suit. Is your house and family's future worth working for a shady company?
> 
> Nevermind the fact that in some jurisdictions the journeyman is responsible for his work...


Why didnt the person that served the hot coffee at MCdonalds get sued when that hot coffee burnt that woman. He or she knew it was hot when it was served. A lawyer that would go after an employee doing what they were told to do, is not a very good lawyer IMO


----------



## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Right, and on military bases, everything you know about the code can, and often does, go out the window. They have their own song book they sing from. They are their own AHJ. Some of their rules are very strict, and seemingly odd. They also have the authority to overlook just about anything they want to.
> 
> When this second gulf war started getting hot and heavy, I did a bunch of work on a base in some buildings that rebuild humvees that are all shot up and blown up. The rule was, get this stuff online NOW, and we'll make it right little by little as we have time. That's exactly what was done. I got as much of their stuff powered as I could, and made things pretty off and on until this very day.


 damn is there anything you have not done


----------



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

When I brought this up to my bosses& the bulding super I told them this was a 1 hour fix I was on the job site for 8 hour shift, actual work time was about 4 1/2 hrs.I was standing around waiting on the furnature install.I was told we were not responsible for that part of the work.I am glad I was fired,I DONT DO HACK WORK,I might be called Queen by some.I might not be liable leagaly,how about moraly.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

ampman said:


> damn is there anything you have not done


Yeah, lots, but nearly all of the weird stuff I've done was just one job or a portion of one job.


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

If you got paid for 8 and worked 4 1/2 how come you couldn't run an EGC? or fix the pipe? 3 1/2 hours would have been plenty of time for me to at least temporarily fix it so I could sleep at night if that is what was bothering you.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> When I brought this up to my bosses& the bulding super I told them this was a 1 hour fix I was on the job site for 8 hour shift, actual work time was about 4 1/2 hrs.I was standing around waiting on the furnature install.I was told we were not responsible for that part of the work.I am glad I was fired,I DONT DO HACK WORK,I might be called Queen by some.I might not be liable leagaly,how about moraly.


I agree with you, but bottom line, the boss has the final say so. Just toady I pulled a bunch of #12 for pole lights (from hand hole up) that are on a 30 amp breaker.


----------



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> If you got paid for 8 and worked 4 1/2 how come you couldn't run an EGC? or fix the pipe? 3 1/2 hours would have been plenty of time for me to at least temporarily fix it so I could sleep at night if that is what was bothering you.


 I just said i was not allowed to fix it


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Was he aware that you just stood around for nearly a half day? And in 3 1/2 hours if that's all the violations you found while wandering around the place must not be in that bad of shape. In the end it's not your money or call to make, suck it up and do what the boss wants or start working for yourself. Plenty of things annoy me, and plenty of things that I would never do for myself get done because it's the bosses company, it's the bosses responsibility and it's the bosses name at the bottom of the check that feeds my kids.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> If you got paid for 8 and worked 4 1/2 how come you couldn't run an EGC? or fix the pipe? 3 1/2 hours would have been plenty of time for me to at least temporarily fix it so I could sleep at night if that is what was bothering you.



Good call, if you could have done it and the boss not known about it, do it.

Assuming your boss was not on site. I would have found something to do if I my boss was on site.

Never heard... "Dont worry about bringing that to code, Stand around and do nothing"


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> I was working on Scott AFB.Office furnature was being replaced,I was to unhook power poles Another company changed the furnature, then reinstall power. Upon checking the conduit feeding these ciucuits I discovered the conduit coming out of the panel had the 1 hole straps removed and the conduit had been forceably pushed aside cracking 2 3/4" couplings.I brought this up to the bldg. matinence director. He said they would fix it.I asked when, He said at a later date, I called my boss He brought me a wavier the base had to sign. I told my boss I would not hook Up conduit that was not to code,I was fired.


Sorry if this was asked. Was there an EGC in the run?


----------



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

There was a crew leader on sight standing around also. Bosses knew we would be standing around a lot.My point is would you knownly hook up a circuit that wouldnt pass code. If U sheep do as your told, because the boss is the boss.Iam sorry for you.


----------



## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

MacroManage said:


> That's completely untrue. Any lawyer worth his salt would surely name the electrician who worked on it last and knowingly left the installation without a ground in the suit. Hell, he even signed a piece of paper admitting that he KNEW that the installation was faulty.
> 
> Just because it said "waiver" it doesn't mean that it will protect you, certainly not from a civil suit. Is your house and family's future worth working for a shady company?
> 
> Nevermind the fact that in some jurisdictions the journeyman is responsible for his work...


Show a documented case where this is true. There was a form used by the AFB BM to waive the noted descripency at that time signed by the contractor and BM. The employee was noted as the one bring the descripency forward on the form.


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

You're crying about a couple connectors and straps. Obviously you weren't overly concerned with safety like you imply or you could have rustled up some straps in the half day you had to stand around. I bet you even had some in your bag. Was there a ground in the pipe or not?


----------



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> You're crying about a couple connectors and straps. Obviously you weren't overly concerned with safety like you imply or you could have rustled up some straps in the half day you had to stand around. I bet you even had some in your bag. Was there a ground in the pipe or not?


 I previously said No EGC There were 6 full circuits. And I would have replaced the broken couplings and installed straps,I was told this was NOT the scope of our contract.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

reddog552 said:


> There was a crew leader on sight standing around also. Bosses knew we would be standing around a lot.My point is would you knownly hook up a circuit that wouldnt pass code. If U sheep do as your told, because the boss is the boss.Iam sorry for you.



Wait until you're the boss.


----------



## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

[quote=MacroManage;224061]None of that is true, but you can keep telling yourself that it is. It's apparent that you're out on a witch hunt.[/quote]
Why is this a witch hunt? Because the OP was an employee and the rebuttal is by an owner?



MacroManage said:


> Especially when the pipe is the only GEC.
> 
> If they were actually going to repair it, they would have done it there and then, nice and simple.. They only got the waiver because they knew they were going to leave it like that to save the money.




That is an assummion by you, who is saving money the AFB or the contractor? Have you ever read/wrote a contract? What steps are to be taken to go outside the contract?



GoodLookingUglyGuy said:


> I say the Op was correct in stating that he could not connect to this previous installation. you were wrongfully terminated and you have yourself a lawsuit. I say join the ibew and never have to worry about that again. If my understanding is correct of the rcw ( revised code of Washington ) you can loose your electrical license for knowingly hook up faulty or damaged circuits. Even if they are pre existing. I would contact the *ahj* and let them know of these practices. and to all the yahoos who says he deserved getting terminated please post your business name and location so that I know never to consider working for you.


This is an AFB who do you thing the AHJ is? Seriously doubt if any of the contractors here would want to hire you.


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Then that's the way it is. For what it's worth we do a lot of foreclosed houses and this sounds like a lot how those work. We submit a bid, the bank picks and chooses and we fix only what is on our bid, not one thing extra. At times we will show the inspector some particularly bad things and let them demand that they be fixed, that way the bank has a second party telling them to get off the cash. Trying to fix everything isn't practical. Do what you can with what you're given. I think there would be a big market for personal insurance for tradesmen if there was a big market for suing installers. Fact of the matter is you sue the people with the most money. They could care less about you. I applaud your pride in saying no to something you weren't comfortable with, that was your choice. It was the bosses choice to ****can you for not doing what you're told. Now you should both be happy right?


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> There was a crew leader on sight standing around also. Bosses knew we would be standing around a lot.My point is would you knownly hook up a circuit that wouldnt pass code. If U sheep do as your told, because the boss is the boss.Iam sorry for you.


 


Feel sorry for someone who does what's asked of them? I feel sorry for the family that's gotta count on you feeding them. How are you gonna honestly say it was worth your job??. Look your kid in the eye and say the world is a better place now that the pipe is not energized??,,,when the fact of the matter is,, the circuits were probably fired up before your butt hit the seat of your truck to go home. YOu made a mistake, several people on here have told you so, and without admitting it, you will continue getting fired your entire life. And to the peolple that egg him on,,saying he did the right thing,,,,you're only encouraging him, you can't feed your kids with your ego


----------



## GoodLookingUglyGuy (Feb 3, 2010)

D**N Mike, them some ugly cats


----------



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

I am 56 yrs old kid are 27-37 yo I did this so other kids will have Parents .Ps this happened months ago,I only work part time for this company and have done more work for them since then with a raise.:thumbup: I brought this up just to see where some stand on this subject. I would do it again The boss that fired me was terminated by owners.We are primarly comm.installers for AFB across the Us,I am the only electrican,Iwas told my call was correct.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

glad it worked out for you


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> I am 56 yrs old kid are 27-37 yo I did this so other kids will have Parents .Ps this happened months ago,I only work part time for this company and have done more work for them since then with a raise.:thumbup: I brought this up just to see where some stand on this subject. I would do it again The boss that fired me was terminated by owners.We are primarly comm.installers for AFB across the Us,I am the only electrican,Iwas told my call was correct.


 

Man,,,,you just took all the fun out of it.

PS...I think you made the last sentence up:thumbsup:


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

So how many people died from that pipe never getting fixed? I would love to be able to do everything perfect, but we live in an imperfect world.


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Wait until you're the boss.


Yep.
And I bet some of the guys on here siding with him are JW's working for the union.


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

reddog552 said:


> I am 56 yrs old kid are 27-37 yo I did this so other kids will have Parents .Ps this happened months ago,I only work part time for this company and have done more work for them since then with a raise.:thumbup: I brought this up just to see where some stand on this subject. I would do it again The boss that fired me was terminated by owners.We are primarly comm.installers for AFB across the Us,I am the only electrican,Iwas told my call was correct.


Well if your insubordination doesn't get you fired, your grammar and writing will.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Well if your insubordination doesn't get you fired, your grammar and writing will.


My hed hurted tryin to read the first sentanse.


----------



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> There was a crew leader on sight standing around also. Bosses knew we would be standing around a lot.*My point is would you knownly hook up a circuit that wouldnt pass code*. If U sheep do as your told, because the boss is the boss.Iam sorry for you.


Knowing now that it was not in the scope of work. . No I would not,I would not fix. I would note it like you did and move to the next paying job. 

If it did work that was not in the scope, Im not doing my company any good. I would never be able to bring a job in on time or at budget. I would let the person who holds the risk aware of the problem.


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Voltech said:


> Knowing now that it was not in the scope of work. . No I would not,I would not fix. I would note it like you did and move to the next paying job.
> 
> If it did work that was not in the scope, Im not doing my company any good. I would never be able to bring a job in on time or at budget. I would let the person who holds the risk aware of the problem.


Exactly. Report the problem and move on. How many code violations do you run into on every freaking job? They are everywhere. We are not here to save the world; if that's your gig, go volunteer your labor to replace the cracked couplings. What? Work for free? That changes things doesn't it?


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Man, did this guy come out of the closet while I watched the first two periods of Sharks v Red Wings or what??


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I am still with you reddogg. Some of the queens here wouldn't know integrity of it was slapping them in their balls. 


You guys must be great to work with. :no:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm picturing guys standing in line at the unemployment office singing this Frank Sinatra song:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I am still with you reddogg. Some of the queens here wouldn't know integrity of it was slapping them in their balls.
> 
> 
> You guys must be great to work with.



Here ya go, then:




















































Now go pack up all your integrity in your old kit bag, and smile, smile, smile.

You know about it now, don't you? Well, then........... go fix it!


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Seeing that cigar box never gets old. I love it.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I think some of you guys are great electricians but geesh. If I was this guys hack boss I would have just sent someone else out there or went myself. I wouldn't fire a guy for wanting to do good work just because he was challengin ma authoritie.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nitro71 said:


> I think some of you guys are great electricians but geesh. If I was this guys hack boss I would have just sent someone else out there or went myself. I wouldn't fire a guy for wanting to do good work just because he was challengin ma authoritie.



He's not challenging anyone's authority, he's wanting to give the boss's money away.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Maybe I didn't quite get the whole gist of it. Happens sometimes.


----------



## gardiner (Sep 25, 2007)

I can see from this thread just how many here have experience dealing with the American military. You’re talking about a base where it can take four hours to get permission to open a door and then another two to get someone with proper clearance to do the opening. There is no quick simple fix on a base there is either do it complete (usually a lot of paper work and proof of need required) or put it off and get it into the next set of contracts. The only real rule they seem to like to follow NOTHING is done outside the contract. Do not create extra work. As stated before the base is its own AHJ and can do what it want when it want. You’re lucky it was not a high security project you would be on your way to jail right now for even talking about it. (Its was a low security area? Right?)


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Now go pack up all your integrity in your old kit bag, and smile, smile, smile.
> 
> You know about it now, don't you? Well, then........... go fix it!


Nothing to do with the situation, at all. 

But maybe it's time for you to get some training, your work really sucks.


If any of you hacks bothered to read the original post you would know that this wasn't some random violation, this was directly related to what the guy was working on.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> I am still with you reddogg. Some of the queens here wouldn't know integrity of it was slapping them in their balls.
> 
> 
> You guys must be great to work with. :no:


Scott.. why not give up the name calling you have assigned to the people who say he got what he deserved.

Everyone here has an opinion and you don't have to use cheaps shots if you don't like the answer.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

working on base is not a one size fits all.

a lot of the small work has a construction management company overseeing contracts, and small extras and such can often be worked out by a phone call and do the paperwork later. contracts directly for the base are a little different, sometimes credit card work. larger contracts can be completely different. the bottom line is, if you don't make the client happy and give them what they need when they need it, you may not be back. so communiction and problem solving are key. as I said before, if we were doing it, I would have fixed the problem, we would have worked it out or gotten a little extra money on the next job, but the client would be happy and want us back.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Scott.. why not give up the name calling you have assigned to the people who say he got what he deserved.
> 
> Everyone here has an opinion and you don't have to use cheaps shots if you don't like the answer.


Aren't cheap shots what the forum is all about? Just trying to fit in.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Nothing to do with the situation, at all.
> 
> But maybe it's time for you to get some training, your work really sucks.
> 
> ...


Nothing to do? So seeing a violation on the job you're working with is somehow radically different from a violation you see driving down the street?

If you see a fire extinguisher that's low on pressure, are you going to fix that? If there's a huge crack in the sidewalk, are you going to fix that too? Ooops, there's some water there on the floor... better go find a mop and a yellow sign!

Better yet, do you expect every job site an electrician goes to, you want him/her to inspect every stick of pipe, every make-up, every circuit, every wire, every device.....just to make sure it's 101% safe?


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Scott.. why not give up the name calling you have assigned to the people who say he got what he deserved.
> 
> Everyone here has an opinion and you don't have to use cheaps shots if you don't like the answer.



Some of those same people with opinions use cheap shots also. Come's with the the territory. You know... the whole find a forum, get a screen name and do and say things you wouldn't in person. Sorta like when some people say how they really feel about a person of a different race, color, religion, sex blah blah and then becomes all smiles and has none of those same opinions when they are within ear shot. 

Don't think of it as a cheap shot on here it's just mere "talk".


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Aren't cheap shots what the forum is all about? Just trying to fit in.


No... and that is an insult to everyone of us who frequent this site :no:

How did you get so confused during your trip from MH over to here :blink:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> No... and that is an insult to everyone of us who frequent this site :no:
> 
> How did you get so confused during your trip from MH over to here :blink:


Consider yourselves insulted I guess. :laughing:

I hope you are not really being serious. This forum is LOADED with name calling and cheap shots.

Here comes one now......



Black4Truck said:


> That was dumb to get yourself fired :no:
> .


Now here's some advice I like to give...



Black4Truck said:


> Geez.. don't be such a hard ass.. lighten up


And let's not forget.....


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Aren't cheap shots what the forum is all about? Just trying to fit in.







Black4Truck said:


> No... and that is an insult to everyone of us who frequent this site :no:





Black4Truck said:


> plus they just love towelheads..



So don't try to BS me with your "How dare You!" attitude.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Nothing to do? So seeing a violation on the job you're working with is somehow radically different from a violation you see driving down the street?
> 
> If you see a fire extinguisher that's low on pressure, are you going to fix that? If there's a huge crack in the sidewalk, are you going to fix that too? Ooops, there's some water there on the floor... better go find a mop and a yellow sign!
> 
> Better yet, do you expect every job site an electrician goes to, you want him/her to inspect every stick of pipe, every make-up, every circuit, every wire, every device.....just to make sure it's 101% safe?


The violation was directly part of what he was working on. Very, very different than seeing one driving down the street. Nice spin though.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> The violation was directly part of what he was working on. Very, very different than seeing one driving down the street. _* Nice spin *_though.



:laughing:

Yea he does that often.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> The violation was directly part of what he was working on. Very, very different than seeing one driving down the street. Nice spin though.



Well, then, the next time you see someone drinking and driving, forget calling 9-1-1. Better to run the drunk off the road, pull the slob out of his car and effect a citizen's arrest.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Well, then, the next time you see someone drinking and driving, forget calling 9-1-1. Better to run the drunk off the road, pull the slob out of his car and effect a citizen's arrest.


Spin spin spin. :no: I'm getting dizzy.

Yes or no? If you work for somebody as an employee, would you knowingly connect something you felt to be a violation and a hazard if they insisted you do it anyway?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Spin spin spin. :no: I'm getting dizzy.
> 
> Yes or no? If you work for somebody as an employee, would you knowingly connect something you felt to be a violation and a hazard if they insisted you do it anyway?



Yes, but that's not the OPs situation, either.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Yes, but that's not the OPs situation, either.


Wow. At the risk of sounding like I'm name calling, that is pretty foolish.

As for the situation....




reddog552 said:


> I was working on Scott AFB.Office furnature was being replaced,I was to unhook power poles Another company changed the furnature, then reinstall power. Upon checking the conduit feeding these ciucuits I discovered the conduit coming out of the panel had the 1 hole straps removed and the conduit had been forceably pushed aside cracking 2 3/4" couplings.I brought this up to the bldg. matinence director. He said they would fix it.I asked when, He said at a later date, I called my boss He brought me a wavier the base had to sign. I told my boss I would not hook Up conduit that was not to code,I was fired.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> So don't try to BS me with your "How dare You!" attitude.


:laughing: Scott is _still _upset over the "towelheads" thing..


----------



## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Seeing that cigar box never gets old. I love it.


 
Ditto, thats my first time seeing it!


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Scott.. why not give up the name calling you have assigned to the people who say he got what he deserved.
> 
> Everyone here has an opinion and you don't have to use cheaps shots if you don't like the answer.


It's funny, back on the very first page this was posted:



mcclary's electrical said:


> He's a queen, and got what he deserved.


mcclary's electrical used the same "cheap shot" and "name calling" as Scott, yet you didn't feel the need to call him out. I guess because he shared your point of view, and you are only calling Scott out because his opinion is different than yours, huh?


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Just to sum it up. I am surprised that you guys would advocate knowingly ignoring a violation or hazard just be cause "the boss said to do it".


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> It's funny, back on the very first page this was posted:
> 
> 
> 
> mcclary's electrical used the same "cheap shot" and "name calling" as Scott, yet you didn't feel the need to call him out. I guess because he shared your point of view, and you are only calling Scott out because his opinion is different than yours, huh?


Mcclary's was the *only* one to use that cheap shot and I said I don't agree with it.

Go back and read what I said....


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Mcclary's was the *only* one to use that cheap shot and I said I don't agree with it.
> 
> Go back and read what I said....


I read what you said. 

Both mcclary's and electricmanscott used the "cheap shot", yet you only lambasted Scott for it.


----------



## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Just to sum it up. I am surprised that you guys would advocate knowingly ignoring a violation or hazard just be cause "the boss said to do it".


I personally feel he can do whatever he wants. And he did it. And the boss did what he wanted to. When I accepted my job I accepted the fact that I don't get to make all of the decisions. It can annoy me at times and that's why my end goal is to work for myself. But for the time being I have other bellies that rely on my check. In the list of code violations/things to pitch a fit about this one ranks fairly low. If I refused to hook up every circuit I've seen that has a violation there would be a whole lot of pissed off people. When someone hires you to do a job you do what you and the customer agreed upon. You can bring up issues to them but ultimately they own it and they can decide what they want. For what it's worth I have once or twice refused to hook something back up. The most recent one was a loose neutral coming off the transformer, I shut the main breaker off called the power company and offered to help procure a portable generator to run the furnace. They were nice enough people and understood that it was serious when I walked them through what was happening. Later at that same house they asked for a bid to replace some conduit outside going to the A/C that the siders had torn all of the straps off, much like the OP's post couplings were cracked and pipe was in bad shape. I gave them a bid and haven't heard anything about it. I'm fairly confident that at some point it will get fixed, but it isn't my scope to shut that A/C off because I don't like it. It is not my property and not what I was asked to do.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Just to sum it up. I am surprised that you guys would advocate knowingly ignoring a violation or hazard just be cause "the boss said to do it".


It's called "knowing your place". Matters like this need handled internally, and completely invisibly to the customer. It's the bosses decision when, and if, to get the customer involved. 

It also shows you likely have not done work on a military base.

Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced with a wheel that's not squeaky at all.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

gardiner said:


> I can see from this thread just how many here have experience dealing with the American military. You’re talking about a base where it can take four hours to get permission to open a door and then another two to get someone with proper clearance to do the opening. There is no quick simple fix on a base there is either do it complete (usually a lot of paper work and proof of need required) or put it off and get it into the next set of contracts. The only real rule they seem to like to follow NOTHING is done outside the contract. Do not create extra work. As stated before the base is its own AHJ and can do what it want when it want. You’re lucky it was not a high security project you would be on your way to jail right now for even talking about it. (Its was a low security area? Right?)


I'm not sure what type of work is worse in that regard. Work in government and military buildings, or work in active prisons. It's a toss-up.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'd hate to see us in war-time production mode, like during WWII, and see what shape we'd be in with guys crying over cracked couplings and crooked pipe.

In this instance, I see two good choices. 1) Unceremoniously replace the cracked couplings without mention. 2) Do what the boss said to do.


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Boss: Have customer sign waiver. We have informed them of the unsafe condition its on them now.

Me: Yes sir.

When you work for someone you do what you are asked or you quit or you get fired. Was hooking up the circuit going to cause such an unsafe condition that someone was sure to be injured? Didn't think so.
I work for myself so I don't ever have to do something I do not want to do. I think the op was really off base and it cost him something a lot of electricians would love to have today...A JOB!


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Well, then, the next time you see someone drinking and driving, forget calling 9-1-1. Better to run the drunk off the road, pull the slob out of his car and effect a citizen's arrest.


citizen's arrest ? geez, if I'm gonna go to all the trouble of runnin them off the road, I'm gonna make sure they are dead. I don't need no stinkin citizen's arrest.


(btw , this thread has really degenerated and is scraping the shoals)


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> When you work for someone you do what you are asked or you quit or you get fired.


BS. That attitude right there is the reason why we still have to suffer with unions. "Do whatever you're told, even if it's unsafe for yourself or someone else, or lose your job." Great... The problem is that many people will do the unsafe act and get hurt or cause someone else to get hurt because that worker was worried about feeding his family. Great position you put him in!


----------



## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> what they did was undoubtedly delay a project for unneeded reasons. And the reason I know they were unneeded reasons is,TWO other PROFESSIONALS looked at it, his boss, and the super, and they weren't concerend.


He said there was no EGC pulled in the conduit, meaning the conduit is the EGC. So fixing loose and broken couplings is unneeded because 2 other people said it was?


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MacroManage said:


> BS. That attitude right there is the reason why we still have to suffer with unions. "Do whatever you're told, even if it's unsafe for yourself or someone else, or lose your job." Great... The problem is that many people will do the unsafe act and get hurt or cause someone else to get hurt because that worker was worried about feeding his family. Great position you put him in!


 
No we don't. He had a job to do. He choose not to do it. He had no liability, the customer was given the option of fixing it correctly. You cant make a customer spend money. No one said anything about making anyone do anything unsafe. What the op described needed fixing but was not something I would of lost sleep over. You do the best you can. If it was a dangerous situation thats different. IMO this wasn't.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> No one said anything about making anyone do anything unsafe.


Yes, you did. We are not talking about the OP, we are talking about your attitude. Let me quote you again:

_"When you work for someone you do what you are asked or you quit or you get fired."_

That's what you said, and that's a horrible, unsafe attitude. That attitude is why people stand on the top of step ladders, because their boss told them too and they didn't want to loose their job. That attitude is why people work without dust protection, fall protection, work in live 480volt panels without any PPE, etc. That attitude is why people install unsafe electrical work (such as completing and energizing a circuit without an EGC), because their boss told them to and they didn't want to loose their job. 


> What the op described needed fixing but was not something I would of lost sleep over. You do the best you can. If it was a dangerous situation thats different. IMO this wasn't.


 Whether it was a dangerous situation or not is not for us to decide, for all we know the EGC was completely compromised. But I agree, it's not something to lose sleep over. I do find it a shame that when someone tries to do something safe and correct, they have to fear loosing their job. What can you do...


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MacroManage said:


> Yes, you did. We are not talking about the OP, we are talking about your attitude. Let me quote you again:
> 
> _"When you work for someone you do what you are asked or you quit or you get fired."_
> 
> ...


 

I did say you do what you are asked to do or you quit or get fired. Did I think someone would ask someone to do something unsafe? NO! Why???
Because I wouldn't ask any employee to do anything that could get them hurt or me sued. You are making this about a situation where the employee has to do something unsafe to keep his job which is not what was going on here. You even said you wouldn't lose sleep over it. If you work for someone and they tell you to do something unsafe or your fired you go straight to your states labor board or osha and you will not be told to do that again I bet.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I did say you do what you are asked to do or you quit or get fired. Did I think someone would ask someone to do something unsafe? NO!


 Well, people DO ask their employees to do something unsafe all the time. 
The thread started thought that reenergizing a circuit that he worked on and completed would be unsafe without a EGC. 


> You are making this about a situation where the employee has to do something unsafe to keep his job which is not what was going on here.


 Maybe not to you, but the thread starter certainly felt that way. And he lost his job because he didn't do the unsafe work.



> You even said you wouldn't lose sleep over it. If you work for someone and they tell you to do something unsafe or your fired you go straight to your states labor board or osha and you will not be told to do that again I bet.


 LOL!! Please rethink that statement.

I'll call both agencies on Monday morning and tell them that the hospital wouldn't agree to a shutdown this weekend so my contractor told me to terminate all the new homeruns in the 480V panel while it was hot on Friday. I'll let you know what they say, if I even get a reply. :thumbup:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

MacroManage said:


> Well, people DO ask their employees to do something unsafe all the time.
> The thread started thought that reenergizing a circuit that he worked on and completed would be unsafe without a EGC.
> Maybe not to you, but the thread starter certainly felt that way. And he lost his job because he didn't do the unsafe work.
> 
> ...


He lost his job because he didn't do what was asked of him. Was it unsafe? I dont think so. Would I of got the waiver signed and hiiked the circuit up? Yep I would of. Would the union of got the hospital to shut down for you? If so then so could your boss. If not then the union didnt help you did it? I'm all for safe and not doing things that may get someone hurt but the customer was made aware or the problem and its on them not the op to decide.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> BS. _*That attitude right there is the reason why we still have to suffer with unions*_. "Do whatever you're told, even if it's unsafe for yourself or someone else, or lose your job." Great... The problem is that many people will do the unsafe act and get hurt or cause someone else to get hurt because that worker was worried about feeding his family. Great position you put him in!





So... uhhhh... so you're saying because unions promote safety it makes them a problem? 

Actually... wait... I like that argument... keep spreading that around. :thumbup:


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> He lost his job because he didn't do what was asked of him. Was it unsafe? I dont think so.


That's YOUR opinion. His opinion is different. My opinion is that knowingly working on and then reenergizing circuits without an EGC is unsafe. But enough about the OP, my post is in reference to you.

I stand by what I said, your statement is dangerous and it's precisely why we still have unions.

_*"When you work for someone you do what you are asked or you quit or you get fired."*_


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> So... uhhhh... so you're saying because unions promote safety it makes them a problem?


No, that's not what I said. My point is very simple and clear. We still need unions because there are employers like jwjrw who say that employees should do whatever they are told or be fired. That fear is what makes workers do dangerous things.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> No, that's not what I said. My point is very simple and clear. We still need unions because there are employers like jwjrw who say that employees should do whatever they are told or be fired. That fear is what makes workers do dangerous things.



You do realize a union member could be fired right? I've seen it with my eyes. I'm not saying that there aren't situations where a union member is protected and has the backing of the union but in a union shop not doing what you're told is grounds for a lay for for insubordination. 



In this case there MIGHT have been a backing of the union to see why exactly he was let go and if there were code violations and so on he MIGHT get his job back.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> You do realize a union member could be fired right? I've seen it with my eyes.


 Well no sh*t, it actually happened??

We all know that a union member could be fired. 

You keep dragging this out into something that it's not. 



> but in a union shop not doing what you're told is grounds for a lay for for subordination.


 Bologna. If you are told to do something unsafe and you refuse, the union will back you. 

Hell, every IBEW local that I know about has a stipulation that if a journeyman knowingly does any installation against code, even if instructed to by his superior, it is on him to fix it on his *own time*.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> Well no sh*t, it actually happened??
> 
> We all know that a union member could be fired.
> 
> You keep dragging this out into something that it's not.


:icon_rolleyes:

Ummm ok. 



MacroManage said:


> Bologna. If you are told to do something unsafe and you refuse, the union will back you.
> 
> Hell, every IBEW local that I know about has a stipulation that if a journeyman knowingly does any installation against code, even if instructed to by his superior, it is on him to fix it on his *own time*.


Ummmm no.

If you do something the way you were INSTRUCTED to it is not on YOU!
Yes there is a stipulation in some locals that says that a journeyman shall be required to fix and defective work for which THEY are responsible. In other words you took it upon yourself and you screwed up now fix it!


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I really don't get this thread. I think some of you are just being ****s for the sake of being ****s. If that's true then ok, this thread is funny, otherwise...

If you knowingly do something that is unsafe and somebody gets hurt or killed you are liable no matter who's name is on the truck. Thats is not opinion, it is fact. 

If you don't believe this you are either very naive or just very stupid. 

The OP felt this was unsafe and a hazard. He should be commended for taking a stand against a hack. You guys are always pissing and moaning about all the hackwork you find. 

You should be ashamed for essentially blaming the "victim". Maybe if there were more guys like the op that said "no I'm not going to be a hack" the trade would be better for all of us. 

That said, the owner was free to fire him and he did. I have no beef with that. As far as I'm concerned an owner should be able to fire anybody at any time for _any_ reason.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> If you do something the way you were INSTRUCTED to it is not on YOU!


 That theory has already been proven wrong in this thread. California is one place in which the worker who knowingly does unsafe work can be held responsible, among other places. Why are you spreading misinformation?


> Yes there is a stipulation in some locals that says that a journeyman shall be required to fix and defective work for which THEY are responsible. In other words you took it upon yourself and you screwed up now fix it!


Once again, you are wrong. That worker would have to fix the work even if he was instructed to and the responsibility was on the foreman. You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth here.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> That said, the owner was free to fire him and he did. I have no beef with that. As far as I'm concerned an owner should be able to fire anybody at any time for _any_ reason.


And that fear of being fired is the reason why so many workers will bow down and kiss the bosses ring when he tells them to do something unsafe. As I said, that BS is why we still have to suffer unions these days.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MacroManage said:


> And that fear of being fired is the reason why so many workers will bow down and kiss the bosses ring when he tells them to do something unsafe. As I said, that BS is why we still have to suffer unions these days.


I don't necessarily disagree, but anybody is free to "be the boss."


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MacroManage said:


> That theory has already been proven wrong in this thread. California is one place in which the worker who knowingly does unsafe work can be held responsible, among other places.


Anyplace with a court room, a judge, and a jury.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> I don't necessarily disagree, but anybody is free to "be the boss."


You're right, but let's get realistic. Not everyone will be the boss, most will be the employee with kids to feed. 

You tell that guy to use the 6 foot ladder that is there instead of going to get the 8 foot ladder that he needs, and he will do it for his kids. The same with unsafe electrical installations, like not using a proper EGC.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MacroManage said:


> You're right, but let's get realistic. Not everyone will be the boss, most will be the employee with kids to feed.
> 
> You tell that guy to use the 6 foot ladder that is there instead of going to get the 8 foot ladder that he needs, and he will do it for his kids. The same with unsafe electrical installations, like not using a proper EGC.


Don't get me wrong, I'm with you.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> That theory has already been proven wrong in this thread. California is one place in which the worker who knowingly does unsafe work can be held responsible, among other places. Why are you spreading misinformation?
> 
> 
> Once again, you are wrong. That worker would have to fix the work even if he was instructed to and the responsibility was on the foreman. You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth here.


Ok we'll make this easy... since I'm in NYC and a member of LU 3 and you know all. Pull out the working agreement from my local that states what you said so I can cross check it. I just did...

I'm not spreading misinformation I'm just saying what I know. I don't know CA, FL, KS any many other places so I don't pretend to know it nor will I bunch them together with NY.

Sorta like a person uses the word "union" so loosely. No two locals are alike. And in the end liability lies on who the law says it lies on. 


I'll make this simple. If a union electrician was told to install something that violated code and got laid off with insubordination or any other "bad" layoff he could call for a hearing. Basically the foreman, super and any other supervision who laid him off would have to appear at the hall and explain why he was laid off. I highly doubt that they would even appear if it was because a code violation. Because they would have no ground to fight against the worker. 


Believe me... I'm with you. If you think it's not code and/or can cause harm to anyone you shouldn't do it. And you shouldn't have to worry about getting fired because of it. But that isn't reality.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm with you.


I was defending your honor earlier in the thread, you owe me.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MacroManage said:


> I was defending your honor earlier in the thread, you owe me.



Enjoy! 
:drink:


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> Ok we'll make this easy... since I'm in NYC and a member of LU 3


 Well that explains everything. Local 3 is unlike any other local in the IBEW. They do what they want, when they want. Local 3 and it's members are bad to use as a comparison in any way.


> I'm not spreading misinformation I'm just saying what I know. I don't know CA, FL, KS any many other places so I don't pretend to know it nor will I bunch them together with NY.


 You are spreading misinformation when you say _"If you do something the way you were INSTRUCTED to it is not on YOU!"_ That statement is NOT true. It might be true in your little liberal haven, but not the rest of the country.


> Believe me... I'm with you. If you think it's not code and/or can cause harm to anyone you shouldn't do it. And you shouldn't have to worry about getting fired because of it. But that isn't reality.


 So what are you arguing? Hell, I forget already.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> Well that explains everything. Local 3 is unlike any other local in the IBEW. They do what they want, when they want.


 Ummm... nevermind. Ok



MacroManage said:


> You are spreading misinformation when you say _"If you do something the way you were INSTRUCTED to it is not on YOU!"_ That statement is NOT true. It might be true in your little liberal haven, but not the rest of the country.



What does my "liberal little haven" have anything to do with anything? It sounds like you're just telling me that liability depends on which side of the fence politically you are. If that's what you're saying it's pretty silly.

*WARNING*: Political topic's will result in a closed thread_._ :laughing:


I guess we argue for the sake of arguing...? :thumbup:


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> What does my "liberal little haven" have anything to do with anything? It sounds like you're just telling me that liability depends on which side of the fence politically you are. If that's what you're saying it's pretty silly.


 You are apparently just spinning this. You know that I did not say or mean anything like that.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> You are apparently just spinning this. You know that I did not say or mean anything like that.



Believe me... I had no intention on spinning it. I mean honestly... Read what you said. What other reason would you even say "liberal little haven"? Intentional or not it does sound like there was another motive there.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> Intentional or not it does sound like there was another motive there.


There was intention...


My intention was to make fun of that little liberal haven. That doesn't mean that it had to do with the topic, more along the lines of the way you think.

Don't worry, I can see the NYC skyline from my balcony so I'm part of that sissy commie liberal area too.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> There was intention...
> 
> 
> My intention was to make fun of that little liberal haven. That doesn't mean that it had to do with the topic, *more along the lines of the way you think*.
> ...



:no:

You said what you said...


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris21 said:


> You said what you said...


So what? What are you saying? You make very little sense.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> So what? What are you saying? You make very little sense.


Macro.. in your world of being a Troll, ever run into a guy named STUB??:laughing:


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Macro.. in your world of being a Troll, ever run into a guy named STUB??:laughing:


What is wrong with you?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MacroManage said:


> What is wrong with you?


I have a debased mind, I thought you knew that


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> I have a debased mind, I thought you knew that


If you're not going to stay on topic, please take this elsewhere.


----------



## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

I say if he felt it was such an issue he could have offered to fix it on *his time and his dime.*


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Reddog, I won't say that you were right or wrong. You took a stand and probably knew the consequences. If you stood your ground for the right reasons you have nothing to be sorry for.


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

pudge565 said:


> I say if he felt it was such an issue he could have offered to fix it on *his time and his dime.*


That's just stupid, plain and simple. It's not his personal job to fix other people's problems. It IS his job to give a solid, code compliant installation. He did not feel that the installation was safe, so it did not go thru with it.

If one of your customers wants a ceiling fan hung in a room that has only a wire hanging from the ceiling and doesn't want to pay for a box, are you going to screw it to joist and collect your check, or are you only going to install it with a box in a safe manner? If the customer doesn't want to pay for the box installation, will you put it in for free like your suggesting the OP does??


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

MacroManage said:


> If one of your customers wants a ceiling fan hung in a room that has only a wire hanging from the ceiling and doesn't want to pay for a box, are you going to screw it to joist and collect your check, or are you only going to install it with a box in a safe manner? If the customer doesn't want to pay for the box installation, will you put it in for free like your suggesting the OP does??


That's a completely different scenario. You think you're slick, don't you? Well, in your scenario, the owner or boss of the company isn't involved yet. See the difference?


----------



## MacroManage (Apr 29, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> That's a completely different scenario. Well, in your scenario, the owner or boss of the company isn't involved yet. See the difference?


I was commenting on the statement about fixing it on his own dime and time. Whether you are the boss or the employee, that is a stupid thing to do. 

Let's see how far we could spin this, yay!



> You think you're slick, don't you?


 I'm as slick as sandpaper.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> I'm with you reddog. You did the right thing. These guys here are so full of it my computer is bogging down.
> BTW it's SWAYZE and FARRAH, if you're going to be a smart ass, at least get it right. :laughing:


He will not correct his spelling now. 



wildleg said:


> There are many ways to skin a cat. taking care of your boss,


How's that? Under his desk? 



JayH said:


> Reddog you did the right thing. Too bad it cost you your job. Principles and bars seem to be set pretty low lately, especially here on ET.
> two words most used by this group of "just git 'er done."


It is too bad. And that slogan makes me sick. "git er done". Makes me want to vomit.



Voltech said:


> Its not your license, its not your problem. Let this be your lesson, the guy with the license and signs the checks gets to call the shots. Its his a$$ on the line


As always the BOSS is right. See your right in there with them.



Black4Truck said:


> I agree with almost all of this post.


Only your buddies right? What ever they say, you go with, right?



edward said:


> , maybe you could talk to him again and clear things up?


Best suggestion on this thread. 



MDShunk said:


> Here's the deal... when you work for someone, decisions like this are not yours to make. Period.


Right or wrong, he has to sleep with himself. You self righteous bastards would never know.



ampman said:


> damn is there anything you have not done


Ever wake up to mariachi band playing music under your gazeebo and have no idea who sent them? Me neither but Marc has. 
Have you ever been payed for six weeks/months? for work you did not perform and keep the money? Me neither, but Marc did.

The band "Yes" had a song called "Glorious Stories". I used to think of someone else, now I think of Marc.



Voltech said:


> Good call, if you could have done it and the boss not known about it, do it.


He's got balls and he proved it. No need to hide the truth. It's just to bad he lost his job, and most of these so called forum kings would be the first to fire him. (FORUM KINGS). aka (PIMPLES).




mcclary's electrical said:


> Feel sorry for someone who does what's asked of them? I feel sorry for the family that's gotta count on you feeding them. How are you gonna honestly say it was worth your job??. Look your kid in the eye and say the world is a better place now that the pipe is not energized??,,,when the fact of the matter is,, the circuits were probably fired up before your butt hit the seat of your truck to go home. YOu made a mistake, several people on here have told you so, and without admitting it, you will continue getting fired your entire life. And to the peolple that egg him on,,saying he did the right thing,,,,you're only encouraging him, you can't feed your kids with your ego


He can look his kid in the eye and say " Not everyone would agree with me concerning what happened. But I have respect for whats right. I may not always be right, but I will do my best. I will find another job and hopefully I will find one where people have like minded views and do not drop to there knees in the presence of FORUM GODS".



electricmanscott said:


> I am still with you reddogg. Some of the queens here wouldn't know integrity of it was slapping them in their balls.
> 
> "FORUM QUEENS" That works too. You know who you are!
> 
> ...


Half of them probably do not even have a job. I am retired and I see them here all day long during the week. If they are at work, they should fire THEMSELVES. They know who they are. 



480sparky said:


> He's not challenging anyone's authority, he's wanting to give the boss's money away.


The f**king boss. There are others in this world besides bosses and FORUM KINGS. 



gardiner said:


> I can see from this thread just how many here have experience dealing with the American military.


And if we are not?



RIVETER said:


> Reddog, I won't say that you were right or wrong. You took a stand and probably knew the consequences. If you stood your ground for the right reasons you have nothing to be sorry for.


I agree. This is the internet and who knows whats what. But it is a fact that to many here on this forum are trying to impress one another. They don't impress me and I will never bow to a FORUM KING! :thumbsup:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Round of applause for John Valdes. Agree with him or not, (I do) that is a kick ass rant. Guns blazin', hell yeah! :clap:


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

John Valdes said:


> The f**king boss. There are others in this world besides bosses and FORUM KINGS.


Yeah, but the boss is the one who decides whether to fire you or not. He was fired. How do you like me now? 

Singing "I Did It My Way" in the unemployment line, I see.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, but the boss is the one who decides whether to fire you or not. He was fired. How do you like me now?
> 
> Singing "I Did It My Way" in the unemployment line, I see.


Better than singing "I did it his way" in the lockup chow line. And he still has his conscience in tact.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

electricmanscott said:


> Better than singing "I did it his way" in the lockup chow line. And he still has his conscience in tact.


Insubordination will normally get you fired. Most people know of that.

I defy you to find me one documented instance of an (employee) electrician being put in jail for doing what he was told to do. You'll, no doubt, come up with some lame excuse why you don't want to or can't do that.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> Insubordination will normally get you fired. Most people know of that.
> 
> I defy you to find me one documented instance of an (employee) electrician being put in jail for doing what he was told to do. You'll, no doubt, come up with some lame excuse why you don't want to or can't do that.


I already said I have no problem with the guy being fired whatsoever.


I really held you to a higher level than many on these forums because you come across as a pretty smart guy. I guess I was wrong. If you can't or don't believe that you are going to be held accountable for your actions (whether you are an employee or not) should a person be killed or hurt because of something you did....I don't even know what to say other than you are just wrong.


Here's a few quick google searches that may or may not be exact matches for the situation at hand, but the point is clear

http://www.connecticutcriminallawye...business_owner_charged_with_manslaughter.html

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...hQqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VYIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7190,1366052

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...w4wAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5gMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4798,4891986

http://www.ervingonzalez.com/newsarticles1/article.nhtml?uid=10005

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-brauchli/a-requiem-for-kbr-and-bla_b_164077.html


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I have been the boss before, so I have an idea of what you speak forum gods.
One thing I always took enormous pride in was being fair to anyone who worked for me. You see I used to be that worker. Of course things change when you go into a management position and have the responsibility. But I always treated the guys, how I would like to be treated.
The OP would not have lost his job had I been his supervisor. I am not saying insubordination would be tolerated, I am saying that the work would have been completed without the termination.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Scott.. can I have salt and pepper with that crow 

You proved your point, but the guy STILL should of been fired for not following orders from his boss.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Scott.. can I have salt and pepper with that crow
> 
> You proved your point, but the guy STILL should of been fired for not following orders from his boss.


I have said repeatedly, the boss has every right to fire the guy, and I believe that. I don't think he _should_ have been fired though. If the boss were a decent human being, which he is not obviously, he would appreciate having employees that have a clue and are responsible enough to do the right thing.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> The band "Yes" had a song called "Glorious Stories". I used to think of someone else, now I think of Marc.


 

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

But the song is titled "Wonderous Stories."

Renaming to "Glorious" seems perfectly appropriate though. :thumbup:


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I think everybody should be fired, including his boss. I think this whole thread should be fired too.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Better than singing "I did it his way" in the lockup chow line. And he still has his conscience in tact.


I agree. I'd rather stand in an unemployment line with a clear conscience. The tacit implication here is the boss can make you do things that are plain wrong, immoral or unethical and fire you if you make a stink about it. You're quite right to point out in today's law suit happy world you have to look out for yourself. 

Question - would you fire an employee if he refused to work in a live panel? Is that insubordination?


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Peter D said:


> I agree. I'd rather stand in an unemployment line with a clear conscience. The tacit implication here is the boss can make you do things that are plain wrong, immoral or unethical and fire you if you make a stink about it. You're quite right to point out in today's law suit happy world you have to look out for yourself.
> 
> Question - would you fire an employee if he refused to work in a live panel? Is that insubordination?


yes, it is.


----------



## reddog552 (Oct 11, 2007)

Wow has this taken a life of its own.First of all this job was part time ,I work for Myself.Second U said fix it on your own time.I went out out my way to fix many of the problems here anchor conduit remove old lighting whips with wire nuts no boxes,I also was putting on covers on boxes probably 30 or so had no covers,I was questioned why I was Doing that It was in the scope of job, I said its the right way &I had lots of time to waste actual work time was about 2 hours a day,but I had to be there.I got the base guys to round up a lot of parts to fix up these problems So boss was not effected in any money wise. Last the broken conduit. When I started this room the conduit was fine. HVAC guys were updating there controls the conduit was in there way ,they got it out of there way. I wanted to fix it,super on job told me to just reattach it which I did,then I saw the split couplings,They were the GEC I told him a( communication guy )this must be fixed, I was handed a wavier to sign,I told him U cant wavier the Code,this is a dangerous situation.Most of these cubicales powered computers,but most also had plug in personal heaters,They were pushing just about all ckts to the max. I stand by my decision. OH and by the way we were working on a base, not being paid prevaling wage as we should have. This is 1 of the most hack companys I have ever seen.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> Wow has this taken a life of its own.First of all this job was part time ,I work for Myself.Second U said fix it on your own time.I went out out my way to fix many of the problems here anchor conduit remove old lighting whips with wire nuts no boxes,I also was putting on covers on boxes probably 30 or so had no covers,I was questioned why I was Doing that It was in the scope of job, I said its the right way &I had lots of time to waste actual work time was about 2 hours a day,but I had to be there.I got the base guys to round up a lot of parts to fix up these problems So boss was not effected in any money wise. Last the broken conduit. When I started this room the conduit was fine. HVAC guys were updating there controls the conduit was in there way ,they got it out of there way. I wanted to fix it,super on job told me to just reattach it which I did,then I saw the split couplings,They were the GEC I told him a( communication guy )this must be fixed, I was handed a wavier to sign,I told him U cant wavier the Code,this is a dangerous situation.Most of these cubicales powered computers,but most also had plug in personal heaters,They were pushing just about all ckts to the max. I stand by my decision. OH and by the way we were working on a base, not being paid prevaling wage as we should have. This is 1 of the most hack companys I have ever seen.


 
if you had put all this info in the original post the thread probably wouldn't have caused so much heartache. Glad you helped out. too bad you couldn't sling a ground in the pipe. can't believe you knowingly worked a scale job for less than scale. (what's up with that ?)


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> yes, it is.


So you would fire someone for refusing to work live?


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

JayH said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> But the song is titled "Wonderous Stories."
> 
> Renaming to "Glorious" seems perfectly appropriate though. :thumbup:


Jay, you got me. I really like "Yes" and I should have known better. I have the CD in a case right here next to me and could have looked. Guess I got caught up in the moment. Seems to always happen on Sunday?



reddog552 said:


> Wow has this taken a life of its own.First of all this job was part time ,I work for Myself.Second U said fix it on your own time.I went out out my way to fix many of the problems here anchor conduit remove old lighting whips with wire nuts no boxes,I also was putting on covers on boxes probably 30 or so had no covers,I was questioned why I was Doing that It was in the scope of job, I said its the right way &I had lots of time to waste actual work time was about 2 hours a day,but I had to be there.I got the base guys to round up a lot of parts to fix up these problems So boss was not effected in any money wise. Last the broken conduit. When I started this room the conduit was fine. HVAC guys were updating there controls the conduit was in there way ,they got it out of there way. I wanted to fix it,super on job told me to just reattach it which I did,then I saw the split couplings,They were the GEC I told him a( communication guy )this must be fixed, I was handed a wavier to sign,I told him U cant wavier the Code,this is a dangerous situation.Most of these cubicales powered computers,but most also had plug in personal heaters,They were pushing just about all ckts to the max. I stand by my decision. OH and by the way we were working on a base, not being paid prevaling wage as we should have. This is 1 of the most hack companys I have ever seen.


Have you ever tried to read one of your post's? Terrible. Worst on the forum!


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> Have you ever tried to read one of your post's? Terrible. *Worst* on the forum!



:laughing:


I don't think I would say that... There are far worse. :thumbup:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> So you would fire someone for refusing to work live?


I would never hire someone who wouldn't work live, I do all the time


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Peter D said:


> So you would fire someone for refusing to work live?


yes I would.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I would never hire someone who wouldn't work live, I do all the time





BuzzKill said:


> yes I would.


You do realize it's an OSHA violation to require an employee to work live in all but the most exceptional circumstances, right?


----------



## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Peter D said:


> You do realize it's an OSHA violation to require an employee to work live in all but the most exceptional circumstances, right?


Who really pays attention to OSHA anyway?


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You do realize it's an OSHA violation to require an employee to work live in all but the most exceptional circumstances, right?


So your telling me OSHA could fine me for not hiring the guy?


----------



## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

reddog552 said:


> Wow has this taken a life of its own.
> 
> First of all, this job was part time. I work for myself mostly. Second you all said fix it on your own time. I went out my way to fix many of the problems there. Anchor conduit, remove old lighting whips (with wire nuts-no boxes), I was also putting covers on boxes. (probably 30 or so had no covers) I was questioned as to why I was doing that. It was in the scope of job, I said it's the right way and I had lots of time to waste.
> Actual work time was about 2 hours a day, but I had to be there. I got the base guys to round up a lot of parts to fix up these problems, so boss was not effected money wise. Lastly, about the broken conduit: When I started in this room the conduit was fine. HVAC guys were updating their controls and the conduit was in their way, so they shoved it out of there way. I wanted to fix it, the super on job told me to just reattach it; which I did, then I saw the split couplings, they WERE the GEC I told him a (a communication guy) this must be fixed! I was handed a wavier to sign. I told him you cant wavier the code, this is a dangerous situation! Most of the receptacles in these cubicles had computers, but most also had plug in personal heaters. They were pushing just about all circuits to the max. I stand by my decision. Oh, by the way, we were working on a base and not being paid prevailing wage as we should. This is one of the most hack companies I have ever seen.


Here is a cleaned up version. I have too much time on my hands obviously.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BuzzKill said:


> Who really pays attention to OSHA anyway?


Is this a jest? If it is, it's a pretty bad one. 



Black4Truck said:


> So your telling me OSHA could fine me for not hiring the guy?


That's not what I'm saying at all. You would likely be in violation of labor law if you _fired_ an employee who refused to do something that is a direct violation of occupation safety law. 

As for you not hiring someone who doesn't want to work live, that is just stupid.


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Here is a perfect example of how to set yourself up for a lawsuit in a public forum!


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

JayH said:


> Here is a perfect example of how to set yourself up for a lawsuit in a public forum!



Or just show the utter lack of common sense in your thought process.


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

JayH said:


> Here is a perfect example of how to set yourself up for a lawsuit in a public forum!



Yea but it's the internet and we all all safe from people finding out who were are.  :lol:


----------



## JayH (Nov 13, 2009)

Chris21 said:


> Yea but it's the internet and we all all safe from people finding out who were are.  :lol:


That certainly appears to be the prevailing "common sense" belief. :whistling2:


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Chris21 said:


> :laughing:
> 
> 
> I don't think I would say that... There are far worse. :thumbup:


Ya think? It's pretty bad.



Black4Truck said:


> I would never hire someone who wouldn't work live, I do all the time


I bet you jerk off to pictures of Ronald Reagan too.



BuzzKill said:


> yes I would.


Silly man Buzzy.



BuzzKill said:


> Who really pays attention to OSHA anyway?


Silly Silly man Buzzy.



egads said:


> Here is a cleaned up version. I have too much time on my hands obviously.


Good job. Are you fired too?



Chris21 said:


> Yea but it's the internet and we all all safe from people finding out who were are.  :lol:


Not me. They know my name and my town. :blink: Oh s**t.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)




----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

John.. sometimes you sound like a real asshole, this is one of them :no:


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

wildleg said:


>


So you posted my IP address... and the reason for this would be??? :blink:


----------



## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> So you posted my IP address... and the reason for this would be??? :blink:


The same reason a dog licks his balls.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

egads said:


> The same reason a dog licks his balls.


:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Chris21 (Nov 25, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> So you posted my IP address... and the reason for this would be??? :blink:



:lol::lol:

It took longer than I expected for someone to bite...


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

only you can see it. everyone else sees their own.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

wildleg said:


> only you can see it. everyone else sees their own.


Well thats nice :blink:


----------



## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> As I said, sugar coat it as you may, but what he did was nothing less than insubordination, and he deserves nothing less than what he got. As posted by other poster, IF,,,key word, IF he played his cards right,,,,they would have gotten the repair work, along with this work, insted, what they did was undoubtedly delay a project for unneeded reasons. And the reason I know they were unneeded reasons is,TWO other PROFESSIONALS looked at it, his boss, and the super, and they weren't concerend. I've met the type of person the OP is. They make a big deal out of everything, and take forever to get anything done. In fact, Id bet money this was NOT the first run in with the boss.


you are right if it played out the way you believe it too, did you witness the incident? No probably not and I have had several "professionals" look at something and give another opinion, a license does not make you a professional McClary, nor does being a boss or superintendent lots of idiots with those titles . So with out all the facts and knowing the skill of the other too you really have no way to justify bashing him so bad. 

The only part I will agree with you on is the insubordination and justified termination, may not be right but he made his choice on the issue.


----------



## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

electricmanscott said:


> http://www.ervingonzalez.com/newsarticles1/article.nhtml?uid=10005





> _Cutting ground rods in half, not using fuses, *not bonding* - these weren't mistakes. This guy was totally unqualified to do the job and the company knew it," Gonzalez said. "They put together a ragtag team to do this work. They did this willfully and wantonly and with total disregard for the health and safety of the public."
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


Seems directly on point, though they do point out that this eventuality is rare.


----------

