# 12V rope lights



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

What is the load in watts?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*..*

Uh Err It sounds like someone sold you some old series xmas tree lights and dipped them in lacquer


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

IMO there seems to be a voltage drop. Do you need to keep the wire at 80' or can it be cut.


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## MadMyk (Oct 5, 2012)

The load is 3W per foot. I may have undersized the 300W XFMR for both strings that total 110' but it wouldn't have been for much. I then took the 60' load off with plans to add another dedicated XFMR for that one. I would have thought I would have full strength on the one I left connected, but it looked exactly the same. I can't shorten up the supply wires at all so here again is my situation:

One string 50' long 150W total load with 80' of 12/2 LV wiring to connection point.

One string 60' long 180W total load with 20' of 12/2 LV wiring to connector.

Suggestions on XFMR secondary voltage? Should I bump them up to 14V, or 16? re-running the wire isn't an option, either, have gone the shortest distance possible already. 
Any reason why the rope lights would be bright(er) at the beginning of the string and dim to the point of no light at all at the end of the string?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I will be interested in this also as we wired a dock with these and have the same result. I don't really care till spring now though. I will probly find some LED 12 volt rope to replace it with.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

You have 15 amps of load on the 180' circuit

12 awg is way to small to deal with the voltage drop at 12 volts 

No using a 14 bolt transformer is not the answer


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MadMyk said:


> Any reason why the rope lights would be bright(er) at the beginning of the string and dim to the point of no light at all at the end of the string?



Yes, the further you go you have more load and thus more voltage drop.


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## MadMyk (Oct 5, 2012)

Next question. Going with the same setup, could I just change out the 12V standard rope lights with LED ropelights? Would I need a driver or anything special? I'm still getting things straight with these LED's. I wired up some LV floods with standard MR 16 sockets and just inserted the 3 watt LED bulbs and needed nothing extra. Do the LED ropelights work the same? Just plug and play?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

MadMyk said:


> Next question. Going with the same setup, could I just change out the 12V standard rope lights with LED ropelights? Would I need a driver or anything special? I'm still getting things straight with these LED's. I wired up some LV floods with standard MR 16 sockets and just inserted the 3 watt LED bulbs and needed nothing extra. Do the LED ropelights work the same? Just plug and play?


Ii may depend on the style. Many of the 12V LED rope lights need a driver.


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## DiegoXJ (Jul 29, 2010)

are you using a magnetic or electronic transformer?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

DiegoXJ said:


> are you using a magnetic or electronic transformer?


I don't believe the 12v led rope lights use transformer but rather a converter/driver


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Feed them at both ends with the closed loop system. It's the choice of professionals.


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## MadMyk (Oct 5, 2012)

The only thing I can do would be to install separate transformers (drivers, rectifiers, whatever would be needed if I decide to go to LED) to each of my strings. I could install one of them about 40 feet closer to the string that has 80' of lead wire before the termination. 
I see where I may have erred by using 12 ga wire for the XFMR load to these lights, but like I said, I am even less well versed on LED options. That's what I get for working with 34.5KV/480V/277V for as long as I have. I lose sight on the smaller stuff.
If I were to switch to the LED's, I know that there is a max length of about 65' on the brand I was looking at. Does max length include the wire before the termination point? Re-running the wire isn't an option, like I said, so the 12/2 is in there for life. Will that be enough for any rope light option? If anybody can weigh in on LED option, I will take your two cents!


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

If he changes to LED it may well drop the current enough that the 12 AWG may be sufficient.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mxslick said:


> That's two big "may(s)"....I think on the shorter wire run he might be ok with LEDs but on the longer run, probably not.


Calculations could answer the "mays" before he spends more money.




> Worth a try though..but I still see conductor replacement/trans relocation in his future. :whistling2:


Why be a d!ck?


LEDs draw a butt load less.


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## MadMyk (Oct 5, 2012)

To most of you, thanks for your help. Does man-ing up include flying from DC to Reno to install lights to what builders wired in your parent's yard? :thumbsup: I'm trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t, and most of you have been helpful. I'm working with alot of the clues that you have given me on LED lights, and I appreciate the help. I put in 20+ hours in three days there and now I'm working to give another electrician instructions to make this work while keeping costs down to my folks. I'll keep you posted and if you all have any more ideas, I'd appreciate it. 
Stay Classy San Diego.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

......................................


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mxslick said:


> Yes calcs will get an answer first. And a wise idea for starters.
> 
> Not being a d!ck just being realistic.
> 
> ...


Someone must have pissed in your cereal becuse you are sure set on being an ass. :laughing:


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

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## MadMyk (Oct 5, 2012)

Well, going to recreate the wiring that is installed in Reno here in VA and do some tests on an LED setup. See if I can get results that are acceptable. I can do a simple switch from the incandescent rope lights to the LED's if my mock up works out here. I'll keep you all posted what I find out if you care. You fellas have been some help to me and I've got thick skin when it comes to -internet assassins- This isn't my first board so I knew there would be some of the old salts to rib the noob. Don't take it personally.


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## Ledelco (Oct 29, 2012)

12V is a poor choice when it comes to long runs, even LED. The problem isn't the wire you use to connect it, but the wire/pcb ribbon that the strip/rope itself is made of. Most times when it comes to lighting of this type I use strips, not rope. Much brighter and better quality than most LED or incandescent ropes.

Don't forget most of this stuff is made in china so that will give you a hint. Not all of it is created equal.

There will usually be voltage loss along the length in any case. The 24 volt is much better for longer runs for obvious reasons.

Do not try to up the voltage to compensate for a longer run. All that will usually do is cause premature failure of the LEDs at the beginning of the strip as the LEDs try to shed the waste heat caused by the higher voltage. They only use a certain voltage, based on the type of LED chip so the excess is shed as heat if they are using integrated drivers or resistors, as much of it does. if not, you will overdrive the LED itself and cause it fail prematurely. Meanwhile, the ends are still dimmer than the beginning and it looks like crap. Might last for weeks, even months, then they start to die.

Your best bet with 12V is shorter individual runs. Try a 10 foot section and measure the voltage drop at the end. Then try a 20. Any more than a 3V loss and you are asking for trouble. Connect each length back to the source with the proper gauge wire for the distance and current. If the runs are shorter, the draw is lower so you can use a lighter wire for each run.

If you have any questions ask away. LED is my specialty.


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