# SER Through Brick?



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd like to know too? Physical damage?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Seems I've seen plenty of SE strapped to brick walls with no problem.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

One more time SE is the devil...


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

> I have an inspector who is saying it's a code violation


Ask for a code citation

~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd ask. Someone's going to be enlightened one way or the other.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

He may be using Article *230.50 (B) All other Service entrance Conductors*
@*230.50 B(1) Service Entrance Cables.*

I think he is saying the brick can damage the SE ..? that's all I could find.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

I remember this coming up some years ago and if I remember correctly, it was using cement to patch the penetration that was the "problem". 

If you float it in silicone or electrician's putty (duct seal) you should be ok.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Utter nonsense. This guy is making stuff up. There's like a million miles of SE cable strapped to brick and block around here. If that moron tried to make that call here, he wouldn't last long as an inspector.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> Utter nonsense. This guy is making stuff up. There's like a million miles of SE cable strapped to brick and block around here. If that moron tried to make that call here, he wouldn't last long as an inspector.


Why do you care? You claim to never get anything inspected.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris1971 said:


> Why do you care? You claim to never get anything inspected.


I never said that. Stop lying. I said that I avoid permits and inspections _whenever possible. _


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

MTW said:


> I never said that. Stop lying. I said that I avoid permits and inspections _whenever possible. _


I see.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

flyboy said:


> I remember this coming up some years ago and if I remember correctly, it was using cement to patch the penetration that was the "problem".
> 
> If you float it in silicone or electrician's putty (duct seal) you should be ok.


That was a common issue espcally cement to patch it up .,, the old SE stuff were different materals that time compared to the modern SE cables is now.

The devil details is protection when it do come in the brick structure.

Ya I heard some inspectors are kinda tough on that. but float with silicone or putty will do the trick.

I think nowdays some inspectors will ask us to install a type of sleeve when you slide the SE cable thru the brickwall.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

If it ain't in in the code, it goes in the commode.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Leave it alone if it's in silicone!


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## Joshua86 (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies, I will probably wait until I have all the finals complete and then ask him about it. Should be a few more weeks. I'll give an update then if I find out anything.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

One Municipality , Solon , Ohio , makes you put a chase of pvc conduit
in anything passing from inside to the exterior of the residence...exterior wall
mounted light fixtures , weatherproof gfci outlet boxes , flood lights ...even a
telephone (CAT5) to the phone company interface box.

Only one I know of out of easily 100 different building departments.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

lighterup said:


> One Municipality , Solon , Ohio , makes you put a chase of pvc conduit
> in anything passing from inside to the exterior of the residence...exterior wall
> mounted light fixtures , weatherproof gfci outlet boxes , flood lights ...even a
> telephone (CAT5) to the phone company interface box.
> ...


If its masonry? Or any type construction?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

flyboy said:


> If its masonry? Or any type construction?


Any type , most of which is stick framed wood sheathed...
They also spec out allied boxes ONLY...
Oh and they insist (which isn't really bad ), but they
insist all underground feeders to be in conduit regardless 
of Uf rated.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

lighterup said:


> Any type , most of which is stick framed wood sheathed...
> They also spec out allied boxes ONLY...
> Oh and they insist (which isn't really bad ), but they
> insist all underground feeders to be in conduit regardless
> of Uf rated.



I have to be blunt here, but that town is run by morons. Spec'ing Allied boxes? Are you serious? 

Are these rules written down, or is it just "inspector's preference"?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Any type , most of which is stick framed wood sheathed...
> They also spec out allied boxes ONLY...
> Oh and they insist (which isn't really bad ), but they
> insist all underground feeders to be in conduit regardless
> of Uf rated.


Did you see it in writing or just verbally ?

If that was verbally I would just close the ear and tell them get it in writing that is the only way I can deal with it.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MTW said:


> I have to be blunt here, but that town is run by morons. Spec'ing Allied boxes? Are you serious?
> 
> Are these rules written down, or is it just "inspector's preference"?


Blunt is good. I have not worked in that city for quite a while 
cause their inspections usually result in me having to spend more 
(unforeseen job costs) and making less.

We used to joke around wondering if they had stocks & bonds in Allied.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> Did you see it in writing or just verbally ?
> 
> If that was verbally I would just close the ear and tell them get it in writing that is the only way I can deal with it.


Same answer. I haven't worked there in years , so I am not in the loop
of how they enforce their unique demands. 

I started bidding jobs there @ about 30% higher than my normal rates
and then got less and less signed proposals as time went on I just
phased out of the scene there.

I don't recall anything in writing. Inspectors drop this on you at
the inspections.

BTW , they are not alone in bizarre and off code requirements.
The Village of Hunting Hills ( a very hoity toity place) that has
their own building department , not a branch of Ohio Building
Standards (out of Columbus Ohio) has all kinds of so called
"higher standards."
I have not worked there , but I know another EC who got gigged
for the following....
* PVC Risers that start above grade and stop @ the 2' depth 
have a terminal adapter & bushing , then continue direct burial 
only with a settlement loop , have to have expansion couplings 
anyway.
They had to tear apart a large service with a CT cabinet and put
expansion couplings on all risers like this.
* No 14 awg romex.
They were wiring in 14 awg per code and @ rough-in inspection
were told to rip it all out and install 12 awg for everything.
Note: I personally prefer 12 awg, but the NEC allows 14.
* At rough-in inspection , 120 volt smoke detectors placements 
were required at the rate of about 20% more than the NFPA 72
requirements to include (3) more added by inspectors requirements
in unfinished attic spaces. 
Note: The EC tried to show him where NFPA 72 specifically states 
Not to put them in unfinished attics to no avail.
* 3 way- 4way switching required in rooms that not only did not 
have stairwell , but didn't even have more than one way in or out.
Example ...(1) 3 way for light in master bedroom to (1) 3way at the
private master bathroom for bedroom light.

Another building dept...Summit County...red tagged me for using
stackets...said I was interfering with the R value of the insulation
and besides ..."we call that 'Racking' ":blink:

around here , NE Ohio , you never know what you'll encounter next
cause there are way too many building departments


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

_sheesh! _:001_huh: Does sovereign immunity extend itself to altering and ignoring manufacturer's specifications Lighter dude?

~CS~


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> _sheesh! _:001_huh: Does sovereign immunity extend itself to altering and ignoring manufacturer's specifications Lighter dude?
> 
> ~CS~


:001_huh:Yes!...Uh No?
Do you hate me?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Lighterup.,,

Jezz what a custer****k those inspectors want to do.

that kinda remind me of Lyons France they went crazy with inspection some time back when I was living in France ., 

It almost the same sistuation in Manila ( Philippine city captaol) some inspectors are really getting on alot of peoples nerves. they go way above the Phlippine code books.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Lighter,

did said dept refer to a code for some of this?

ex>>>



> Another building dept...Summit County...red tagged me for using
> stackets...said I was interfering with the R value of the insulation
> and besides ..."we call that 'Racking



334.80.....

~CS~


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> Lighter,
> 
> did said dept refer to a code for some of this?
> 
> ...


Oh now I get it....No. The are a** holes who do not like "outsiders"
coming into their jurisdiction and also are very "pro labor union"...
for example , inspector shows up and acting as if he's not sure if
I'm in the IBEW (you know he already did his homework) asks
"what local I'm with"..to which I respond .."not with any local" to which
he responds .."oh my" and commences to find fictitious red tags.

This particular building department was formerly "The City of Akron
Building department" which Ohio Building and standards investigated and promptly shut it down...so the Summit County Building Department
which has to assume their jurisdiction does the brilliant move of hiring
all the laid off people from the former Akron Building Dept thus 
accomplishing what? The same behaviour just displaced.

This is another jurisdiction I raised my rates @ and subsequently
phased out of.

Edit and adding.

There are decent Building depts here and really bad ones.
asking for a code reference is okay , but they do not necessarily
give you the correct answers. if they are an extension of Ohio
Building Standards (OBS) in Columbus , they are supposed to 
follow the Ohio Building Codes.
You can appeal to Columbus , but at the end of the day , you
will 99% of the time be told AHJ has an "interpretation" and the
final word.

Here is one more bizarre example

I wired a 6,500 sq ft home in Lake County.
The customer asked me to quote him a service rated transfer 
switch and generator.
The price was too high for said customer. he sated he would 
wait about (1) year when he regains financial momentum from 
the current project.
I had not begun his 200 amp service yet , so I gave him a 2nd 
price for just the 200 amp service entrance rated ATS.
Told him it would be good preparation , we would not have to
tear down his would be 1 year old service and redo it later. 
He agreed.

Do you know the building department red tagged the service 
because I did not pull a permit for a back up generator?
I explained (all of the above). They would not budge. Said tear
it out or pull the permit for the generator and let us know
when the service AND back up generator are installed and
then we will reinspect. 

I called OBS and they suggested I request a "letter of adjudication"
from the Building Dept in question and a specific code which I
promptly did by certified mail.

You know what code they cited? ORC (Ohio residential Code)
talking about "certificate of plan approvals". said I was not
showing a back up generator on the plan.

DUMB****S! I'm not putting a generator in!It's a service entrance
rated ATS. They would not budge.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

If i'm reading this right Lighter, you're being _railroaded_ by union bootlickers working for a municipality (or state) 

That's just 'in *wrong * :no::no::no:~CS~:no::no::no:


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

chicken steve said:


> If i'm reading this right Lighter, you're being _railroaded_ by union bootlickers working for a municipality (or state)
> 
> That's just 'in *wrong * :no::no::no:~CS~:no::no::no:


Just the one in Summit County. F em. I don't need to work there 
anyway...it's kind of too far away (Over an hour).


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