# Older FPE



## volleyball (Sep 14, 2011)

Stab lok has been around for a long time and the company cheapened it up.
So how about the older stuff. Does anybody have proof of the older stuff, actually failing like the newer stuff?
I came across a development that was built with FPE and none have burned down.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

FPE is no longer around and hasn't been for 20 years or so. I believe there was a time in the 80's that they had issue with just a certain few of the breakers, such as, dp 30 and maybe some others. Before that they were fine.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Here is a short article on it

https://www.cpsc.gov/content/commis...-breakers-and-provides-safety-information-for


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I absolutely love throwing a Stab Lok panel in the dumpster. They should have gone there straight from the factory.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

99cents said:


> I absolutely love throwing a Stab Lok panel in the dumpster.


I sometimes feel guilty about it. I sometimes think the dumpster feel like I am insulting and judging it. :devil3:


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## volleyball (Sep 14, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> FPE is no longer around and hasn't been for 20 years or so. I believe there was a time in the 80's that they had issue with just a certain few of the breakers, such as, dp 30 and maybe some others. Before that they were fine.



I forgot to include the newer stuff being 80's. Older stuff 60's 70's.
You see the examples of failed unit but no date of mfg.
Also exclude any of the 21st century stuff


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## Gnome (Dec 25, 2013)

Don't you just love it when you pull the dead front off a stab-lok panel and all the breakers fall out?


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

99cents said:


> I absolutely love throwing a Stab Lok panel in the dumpster. They should have gone there straight from the factory.



MAN OH MAN.... I can't count all the nightmares I encountered down through the years with FPE load centers. I can think of at least three house fires... two caused by homeowners who overloaded a circuit with portable heaters, and the third one was a short and the breaker (Predictably) never tripped. 


An old electrician saying.... if you want to weld anything just use a wire hooked to a FPE breaker.


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

One time at one of the telco's central offices the general was saw cutting the floor and they went through a slab conduit. When they pulled the piece out and saw the pipe they tried to short it out with a shovel, no luck, just kept arcing and sparking. They even poured water in the hole, still no go. We went in in the morning and figured it out.
My buddy is retired from Federal Pioneer/Schnider, he was the area manager here in Winnipeg. 
Whenever I bug him about Federal equipment he always says "The panels were fine, it's the breakers you had to watch out for"
Oh, and by the way, the breakers at the telco office were bolt-on, so it seems it wasn't just StabLoks.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Kawicrash said:


> Oh, and by the way, the breakers at the telco office were bolt-on, so it seems it wasn't just StabLoks.


Old breakers of any brand can behave that way. We have tons of the bolt-on Federal stuff still in service in my area, I haven't experienced the same kinds of problems with it that I have with the push-on stuff.

Interestingly, the bolt-on ones still say "stab lok" on the side of them. That was a Federal brand name for their breakers that doesn't seem to have anything to do with whether they're push-on or bolt-on. 

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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Others have said, on this forum, that the design life of panels is 40yrs & we're almost at 2020.


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

Another one I remember now was one of the old Federal panels that was set up for the wide push-on's and only would accept the narrow style in certain spots. There was a narrow breaker where the bus was set up for the wide style, and only had the pressure of the cover pressing the breaker against the flat part of the bus.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Canadian federal and the federal sold in the US were different. 

Federal Pioneer vs. Federal Pacific


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

I've seen plenty of Federal Pacific panels and switchgear here in Winnipeg.
In fact, there's one in my house!
( I know, I know, "You haven't changed that thing yet!!??" I'm getting to it!)


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Kawicrash said:


> I've seen plenty of Federal Pacific panels and switchgear here in Winnipeg.
> In fact, there's one in my house!
> ( I know, I know, "You haven't changed that thing yet!!??" I'm getting to it!)


We will be praying for you in the mean time.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Kawicrash said:


> I've seen plenty of Federal Pacific panels and switchgear here in Winnipeg.
> In fact, there's one in my house!
> ( I know, I know, "You haven't changed that thing yet!!??" I'm getting to it!)



went to install a new circuit with one of those at one time and found out not all positions will take a 2 pole breaker, That one 2 pole breaker looks strange to me that is leaving a blank space ?


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

electricguy said:


> Kawicrash said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen plenty of Federal Pacific panels and switchgear here in Winnipeg.
> ...


 Not all positions in these old Federals will take a narrow breaker. On the directory you can see the red lines that look like E's or F's. (Some upside down) that show which spots will accept a narrow breaker.
The two-pole on the left is a black wide one with a black narrow one below it, so no open spaces.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I remember reading something about the Canadian versions where the black handled breakers were not good but the coloured ones (red, blue etc.) were ok?


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

Here is info on that recall


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

Everything you ever wanted to know, and then some..


https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Stab_Lok_Hazards.php


https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Stab_Lok_Identification.php


https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Fire_Photographs.php

https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Fires_Waiting_to_Happen.php

https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Stab_Lok_Failures_Technical_Report.php


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

there is a lot of stab lok in canada, they still sell them everywhere but they are made by schneider now and they does trip on overload now


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

NC, NA, NB, bla, bla, bla.


Tim.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

oliquir said:


> there is a lot of stab lok in canada, they still sell them everywhere but they are made by schneider now and they does trip on overload now



Breakers are at a premium price now, panels discontinued


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I still have stab-loks in my house, it is fine. I still run into them often and agree that breakers are getting extremely expensive. In addition, that fact there is not a combo AFCI breaker available for the FPE makes it more common to start looking at swapping them out.

In another thread there was a conversation about AFCI dead-fronts, this is where I am using them a lot now as people have perfectly good FPE panels with lots of space but can't get an AFCI breaker for them.

Cheers
John


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Navyguy said:


> I still have stab-loks in my house, it is fine. I still run into them often and agree that breakers are getting extremely expensive. In addition, that fact there is not a combo AFCI breaker available for the FPE makes it more common to start looking at swapping them out.
> 
> In another thread there was a conversation about AFCI dead-fronts, this is where I am using them a lot now as people have perfectly good FPE panels with lots of space but can't get an AFCI breaker for them.
> 
> ...


"perfectly good FPE panels" haha

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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Navyguy said:


> I still have stab-loks in my house, it is fine. I still run into them often and agree that breakers are getting extremely expensive. In addition, that fact there is not a combo AFCI breaker available for the FPE makes it more common to start looking at swapping them out.
> 
> In another thread there was a conversation about AFCI dead-fronts, this is where I am using them a lot now as people have perfectly good FPE panels with lots of space but can't get an AFCI breaker for them.
> 
> ...


Perfectly good FPE panel??... Is that similar to Army intelligence?:vs_laugh:


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

B-Nabs said:


> "perfectly good FPE panels" haha





jelhill said:


> Perfectly good FPE panel??... Is that similar to Army intelligence?:vs_laugh:


Don't confuse mechanically sound with preferred choice.

Again as stated previously we have not had the same issues with the panel that the USA has had; we have thousands of them working just fine.

I would love to make the profit on a panel change every time I see one, but that is not the way I operate. If their panel is fine, no hot spots, breakers seated properly, correct AIC rating, etc and has space to add a circuit or two I feel obligated to let them know that is an option.

If it was not safe, I would be the first to tell them that too.

Cheers
John


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I really wish I could get my hands on an FPE stab lock 3R panel. It would make a great temp power panel. I got sick of wood butchers bitching about breakers tripping when they are running a miter saw, skil saws, and the air compressor all off the same 20A circuit, so we started putting in GE to mitigate nuisance tripping, but FPE would be even more better!


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Going_Commando said:


> I really wish I could get my hands on an FPE stab lock 3R panel. It would make a great temp power panel. I got sick of wood butchers bitching about breakers tripping when they are running a miter saw, skil saws, and the air compressor all off the same 20A circuit, so we started putting in GE to mitigate nuisance tripping, but FPE would be even more better!


Skip the breaker and bring marshmallows. :biggrin:


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

Going_Commando said:


> I really wish I could get my hands on an FPE stab lock 3R panel. It would make a great temp power panel. I got sick of wood butchers bitching about breakers tripping when they are running a miter saw, skil saws, and the air compressor all off the same 20A circuit, so we started putting in GE to mitigate nuisance tripping, but FPE would be even more better!


Had a call from carpenter blowing fuses, he needed breaker (I don't remember why I had temp fuse box, was a long time ago)

He had changed blowed fuses to bigger but still kept blowing fuses, something was wrong with the fuse box

When I got there I noticed cord pulled up on metal roof, got on roof and saw burnt drop cord and notch burned out on edge of roof:biggrin:


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## Wiredindallas (Aug 9, 2018)

They were never good. I once purposely overloaded one by 10 amps and it took 20 minutes before it tripped. This was in the 1960's.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Wiredindallas said:


> They were never good. I once purposely overloaded one by 10 amps and it took 20 minutes before it tripped. This was in the 1960's.



You were lucky... I had one blow me off a ladder when my foreman told me to kill the circuit by shorting it out. :vs_mad: I'm laying on the ground with my hair smoking and he says... "Uh oh, this house must have either a FPE or Zinsco load center."


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

jelhill said:


> You were lucky... I had one blow me off a ladder when my foreman told me to kill the circuit by shorting it out. :vs_mad: I'm laying on the ground with my hair smoking and he says... "Uh oh, this house must have either a FPE or Zinsco load center."


Not smart to do anytime. Saw something similar with a GE panel.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

You should go to the FPE Masters

http://cletiselectric.com


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

Switched said:


> You should go to the FPE Masters
> 
> http://cletiselectric.com


Good ole Cletis... who cornered the market on aluminum romex! :devil3:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Have have a bunch of FPE and Zinsco in the housing units I work on. I haven't had to replace one in awhile. Means dual function receptacles for kitchen counters and AFCI receptacles for the rest when it comes to receptacle replacement. I don't encounter them too often in homes. They become a pain when it comes to remodels.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Insurance companies here will force you to change it.


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## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

3DDesign said:


> Insurance companies here will force you to change it.




Same here. 


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Wiredindallas said:


> They were never good. I once purposely overloaded one by 10 amps and it took 20 minutes before it tripped. This was in the 1960's.


Have you ever looked at a TCC for any breaker? Ever?


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

zog said:


> have you ever looked at a tcc for any breaker? Ever?


tcc?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

drsparky said:


> tcc?


Time Current Curves


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Time Current Curve


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