# Using 120/208V cable to 347/600V Receptacle???



## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Lower voltages are usually compliant.

Ton more questions arise considering the lack of information in the post.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

do they actually plan to power 347/600 equipment?
are they completely finished and not waiting on a step up transformer ?

if they are your customer, how did the wiring take place without you?
did someone forget to tell you what the deal was?
does it actually affect what your job is ? or are you just curious?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

SWDweller said:


> Lower voltages are usually compliant.
> 
> Ton more questions arise considering the lack of information in the post.


It is compliant but is it code compliance?, we dnt have 347/600V in the USA


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> It is compliant but is it code compliance?, we dnt have 347/600V in the USA


compliant with what ?
the code is the only compliance that matters


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> do they actually plan to power 347/600 equipment?
> are they completely finished and not waiting on a step up transformer ?
> 
> if they are your customer, how did the wiring take place without you?
> ...


No transformer, they been using it like that for quite a while, I am new here,. I just found out for new job they want


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> compliant with what ?
> the code is the only compliance that matters


I thought the NEC code required to match voltage with receptacle


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> I thought the NEC code required to match voltage with receptacle


i thought that was what you meant, but you didnt state it that way

if this is inside a plant, then there are no inspections or inspectors involved
if the plant chooses, they can be their own inspector

the question you have to ask your self is this ....
is it actually unsafe? ... will it cause me or anyone else harm?

if there is no 347/600 supply or machinery requiring it
then of course all they are doing is using over rated plugs and receptacles

some idiot in the office probably thought it was a good idea to use higher voltage ratings
instead of using the correct voltage and increasing the amperage rating of the plugs and receptacles

so of course they have gained nothing except to waste money (typical of office ppl)
another possibility is that the decision maker never checked to see what voltage was actually being used and just assumed .......

if you are contracting in that mill and they ask you to do something you consider unsafe
you have two choices:
A) do what they ask and get paid, but dont forget the possible liability down the road
B) refuse and walk away

if you are an employee of that mill, you have the same two choices

what does the EE in your avatar stand for?
hopefully not Electrical Engineer
if it is, you should already know the answer


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> i thought that was what you meant, but you didnt state it that way
> 
> if this is inside a plant, then there are no inspections or inspectors involved
> if the plant chooses, they can be their own inspector
> ...


That’s my understanding too. Thanks.

You are right EE is Electrical Engineer


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

so you are the new EE for this mill?
how many years since you got your degree?


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

How is it possible? Is it safe? Are these real questions?

You are an electrical engineer?

the only potential issue is if you somehow had a 600v source that had the same type of female receptacle and you plugged in that 208v equipment, that has the 600v male plug, into that 600v source.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Welcome 
First question is " is there any 480 in the plant" and are they using the correct plug for that system.
Second is " what confusion can this cause in the future if someone buy a machine that has a 600 volt plug on it", they may think you are setup to run at that voltage.

It may be compliant but not wise.
Cowboy


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

It looks like everyone have an issue with my degree. My point is the existing is not NEC code compliance,


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Since someone set this up for 347/600, is it in Canada?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> Welcome
> First question is " is there any 480 in the plant" and are they using the correct plug for that system.
> Second is " what confusion can this cause in the future if someone buy a machine that has a 600 volt plug on it", they may think you are setup to run at that voltage.
> 
> ...


The available power is 120/208V. There is no 480V. They claim they using the correct receptacle. It’s also not common voltage 347/600V rating in USA, I dnt like that they use 208v plug.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> It looks like everyone have an issue with my degree. My point is the existing is not NEC code compliance,


not with your degree
your experience

again are you working for the mill as an electrical supervisor of any kind?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

splatz said:


> Since someone set this up for 347/600, is it in Canada?


No, USA


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> not with your degree
> your experience
> 
> again are you working for the mill as an electrical supervisor of any kind?


Something like that and design small projects like this


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The NEC has requirements to match the ampacity of the OCPD for circuits up to 50A. Above 50A, the receptacle must be rated at least as high as the circuit - see 210.21(B)(3) - but higher would be OK. 

There's also the general requirement to use equipment according to it's listing and rating, so you could use a connector rated for higher voltage, but not lower. It's possible that the manufactuer's instructions say to only use it for the specific voltage intended, but I doubt that's the case. 

I agree with everyone else that it's a terrible idea, but I believe it's compliant if you use a suitable ampacity receptacle with a higher voltage rating.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> Something like that and design small projects like this


ok so you are a supervisor, also tasked with designing small projects
if you intend to design them to code then you need the ability to check the code and see if what you intend will be compliant
put that degree to work

you should be able to research the code and find out for yourself whether the voltage rating of the plugs is compliant,
then you will have ammunition you can present to your boss and say "this wrong and here is why"


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Etwo said:


> No, USA


FYI
They do use 600/347 in the US.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Etwo said:


> It looks like everyone have an issue with my degree. My point is "*the existing is not NEC code compliance*",


We don't have a problem with your degree, we have some of the best engineers that help support this site. We just told you it IS compliant but not right. These guys spent their time to answer your question, and were able to do it off the top of their head and then back it up with code.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> FYI
> They do use 600/347 in the US.
> View attachment 169469


there is a papermill in my town that uses 600V for motors on up to 2400V


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> I found out that customer wired the facility with 347/600V rated receptacle (L23-30R) and the available power is 120/208V. How is it possible? Is it safe? Do they need to change all the receptacles?


for your original question and drawing on @splatz 's answer
i found a plug chart that does say 347Y/600 for an L23-30, and since that is a 30A receptacle it falls under what splatz said
the ampacity seems to be the only thing in question, not the voltage


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> for your original question and drawing on @splatz 's answer
> i found a plug chart that does say 347Y/600 for an L23-30, and since that is a 30A receptacle it falls under what splatz said
> the ampacity seems to be the only thing in question, not the voltage


so i must ask, is the ocpd 30A ? or more ? or less?
and the same questions for the conductors


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

splatz said:


> The NEC has requirements to match the ampacity of the OCPD for circuits up to 50A. Above 50A, the receptacle must be rated at least as high as the circuit - see 210.21(B)(3) - *but higher would be OK.
> 
> There's also the general requirement to use equipment according to it's listing and rating, so you could use a connector rated for higher voltage, but not lower. *It's possible that the manufactuer's instructions say to only use it for the specific voltage intended, but I doubt that's the case.
> 
> I agree with everyone else that it's a terrible idea, but I believe *it's compliant if you use a suitable ampacity receptacle with a higher voltage rating. *


Very close to what my answer was going to be. As long as the receptacle is rated the same or higher, you are good.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Quickservice said:


> Very close to what my answer was going to be. As long as the receptacle is rated the same or higher, you are good.


I think there is something in there also about matching voltage if it is in the building. Example you can not use a 480 plug for both 240 and 480 they need to be unique


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Is there more than one type of 3Ø receptacle in the building. It's possible that for some reason they want only certain machines to be plugged into certain recepts.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

I'ma lil' curious what equipment rated 120/208 comes with a L23-30P factory installed


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> so i must ask, is the ocpd 30A ? or more ? or less?
> and the same questions for the conductors


10AWG, 30A OCPD


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

emtnut said:


> I'ma lil' curious what equipment rated 120/208 comes with a L23-30P factory installed


The equipment is rated for 120/208v, the receptacle they have or been using is different voltage rating


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Quickservice said:


> Very close to what my answer was going to be. As long as the receptacle is rated the same or higher, you are good.


the receptacle is rated higher so they didn’t have any issues all this year. When I post this, I wanted to hear what you smart matter experts would do. Do u leave it’ll the existing receptacle as it is? Or do you change it to 120/208V? What is good engineering practice or what is the right thing to do?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

to start with i think you should find out what their reasons are
ask whom ever is in charge

best practice is the voltage and current that is actually present/available

but for now i have never seen a receptacle damaged from higher voltage
i have seen them damaged from higher current


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## Breakfasteatre (Sep 8, 2009)

best practice is that the plug and receptacle should match the voltage and size of the over current protection feeding it. That way you can look at the receptacle and know based on the rating printed on it, that this is a ___V receptacle capable of providing ___amps. You can then confirm the voltage with your meter, check the wiring to see if it is sized appropriately for that amperage, and follow it back to the source, hopefully the recepetacle is labelled with the circuit number, and confirm the size of the overcurrent protection.

Ive seen the wrong voltage and amperage plugs being used, i work in industrial and chord drops are very common and smaller plants have limited resources. But, if you have the option to put the correct receptacle and plug on that corresponds to the voltage and amperage of that circuit, IMO that is best practice.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

emtnut said:


> I'ma lil' curious what equipment rated 120/208 comes with a L23-30P factory installed


The kind that blows up when you plug it in and hit the switch.........


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Breakfasteatre said:


> best practice is that the plug and receptacle should match the voltage and size of the over current protection feeding it. That way you can look at the receptacle and know based on the rating printed on it, that this is a ___V receptacle capable of providing ___amps. You can then confirm the voltage with your meter, check the wiring to see if it is sized appropriately for that amperage, and follow it back to the source, hopefully the recepetacle is labelled with the circuit number, and confirm the size of the overcurrent protection.
> 
> Ive seen the wrong voltage and amperage plugs being used, i work in industrial and chord drops are very common and smaller plants have limited resources. But, if you have the option to put the correct receptacle and plug on that corresponds to the voltage and amperage of that circuit, IMO that is best practice.


Thank you


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Etwo said:


> the receptacle is rated higher so they didn’t have any issues all this year. When I post this, I wanted to hear what you smart matter experts would do. Do u leave it’ll the existing receptacle as it is? Or do you change it to 120/208V? What is good engineering practice or what is the right thing to do?


The right thing to do would be to change the receipts. to the proper ones but that would involve $$$. Management would not be happy.

Typically, management will ask;

1) Does it work as it is?

2) Is there any hazard as it is?

If it works and is not dangerous, they'll never approve spending even 1¢ to do it the right way.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

L


micromind said:


> The right thing to do would be to change the receipts. to the proper ones but that would involve $$$. Management would not be happy.
> 
> Typically, management will ask;
> 
> ...


The problem is what if someone plug In 480V assuming it’s rated 600V, that’s dangerous


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> L
> 
> The problem is what if someone plug In 480V assuming it’s rated 600V, that’s dangerous


so is plugging 480 into actual 600

that is why best practice is for cords and receptacles to be configured according to a nema plug and receptacle chart

i thought you said no 480 in the mill
or else you said different kind of plug?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> so is plugging 480 into actual 600
> 
> that is why best practice is for cords and receptacles to be configured according to a nema plug and receptacle chart
> 
> ...


There is no 480v, What I am basically saying is it work as it is, it’s been like this for over few years, but it’s bad practice and can be dangerous if someone that doesn’t know bring 480v equipment and plug thinking it’s rated for 600v


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Etwo said:


> Thank you


What's an "Engineer designer?" Is that an EE or CE certification?


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## poncho144 (Apr 7, 2018)

Looks like someone needs take a Basic Electrical course....jus say'n....


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## GladMech (Sep 18, 2020)

Hey, guys! Lighten up! Maybe somebody just wanted a good, heavy, twistlock to keep somebody from pulling their cord out every time they tripped over it.

Q. Are there a LOT of these, or just one or two? Did they do it to differentiate these from somewhere else? Maybe they just picked up a case of them for $0.10 each from PLCSurplus or Radwell.

I still have several boxes of these that The Electric Supply Company threw out the last time they moved before they became McNaughten-McKay.


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