# Halo remodel lights



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Any secrets to install 6" halo cans? I can't make the clips always work.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

bobelectric said:


> Any secrets to install 6" halo cans? I can't make the clips always work.


1/2" through 5/8" they work perfect.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

bobelectric said:


> Any secrets to install 6" halo cans? I can't make the clips always work.


I use a drywall screw through the side of the can into the closest beam..

I stock screws up to 6" for that purpose..

If there is no beam within reach.. you can hot glue a block of 2X4 next to the can and use a screw..


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I slide them up with my hand then use my flat blade. I just pop the handle with my palm lightly and push until seated. Hit too hard and you can damage can.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> I use a drywall screw through the side of the can into the closest beam..
> 
> I stock screws up to 6" for that purpose..
> 
> If there is no beam within reach.. you can hot glue a block of 2X4 next to the can and use a screw..


Again, I'm amazed at the things you do and call it "professional"


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> I use a drywall screw through the side of the can into the closest beam..
> 
> I stock screws up to 6" for that purpose..
> 
> If there is no beam within reach.. you can hot glue a block of 2X4 next to the can and use a screw..


FAIL :thumbsup:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

I just don't use them anymore. I like how the Lightolier remodels clip in...Ive never used juno, but I hear they are pretty good also...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Again, I'm amazed at the things you do and call it "professional"


It gets the job done and what hazard am I making.. :blink:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> It gets the job done and what hazard am I making.. :blink:


Why does it have to be a hazard to be hackwork?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> FAIL :thumbsup:


Only on Internet forums filled with code compliant boy scouts who never break code and tell the IRS about all the cash jobs they do..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Why does it have to be a hazard to be hackwork?


OK.. why is it hack work?? :blink:

The OP has a problem with a product and I have supplied a solution.. 

You don't approve.. but I bet if it was your problem.. that would be the solution you would pick..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Many times I have come across recessed lights where the spring clips have snapped off..

These were new work cans and your choices are either cut the ceiling open to change the housing or use a drywall screw..

Now which fix are you going to use..


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

If the can is real close to a beam I sometimes remove one clip and use a sheetrock screw in that one spot. But only when they are real close to the beam.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Pardon, moi!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> if the can is real close to a beam i sometimes remove one clip and use a sheetrock screw in that one spot. But only when they are real close to the beam.


hack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

bobelectric said:


> Once again, I can say Thanks For your expert "Proffession" advice,mother F`***ers


And that reply is suppose to mean what to who???


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## WNCsparks (May 1, 2011)

You get what you pay for. I have yet to find the perfect remodel housing. I have always had good luck with Lithonia + Juno but check out the "new" WAC remodel housings they go up and stay up tight.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I see no issue with carefully and cleaning using a drywall screw; provided it doesn't effect the integrity of the bracket and it doesn't hinder any other part of the fixture.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I've had no problems with the remodel cans installing them.:thumbup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I see no issue with carefully and cleaning using a drywall screw; provided it doesn't effect the integrity of the bracket and it doesn't hinder any other part of the fixture.


Next time I will hire an EE and have them do a stress test on the lip of the can compared to the density of the drywall.. :laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> If the can is real close to a beam I sometimes remove one clip and use a sheetrock screw in that one spot. But only when they are real close to the beam.





HackWork said:


> I see no issue with carefully and cleaning using a drywall screw; provided it doesn't effect the integrity of the bracket and it doesn't hinder any other part of the fixture.


Of course. Not,,,look at your name


B4T said:


> Next time I will hire an EE and have them do a stress test on the lip of the can compared to the density of the drywall.. :laughing:


This sounds like something you'd say...
Close to the beam, I've done it many many times, it's the 6" screw part I couldn't believe...heck, I don't think any vehicle we have has screws longer than 3" in stock...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Close to the beam, I've done it many many times, it's the 6" screw part I couldn't believe...heck, I don't think any vehicle we have has screws longer than 3" in stock...


I stock 3.. 3.5.. 4.. 5.. and 6".. I will post a pic tomorrow..

Even better I have 50# of the 4.. 5.. & 6" if you need a few..:thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> OK.. why is it hack work?? :blink:
> 
> The OP has a problem with a product and I have supplied a solution..
> 
> You don't approve.. but I bet if it was your problem.. that would be the solution you would pick..





Because the only 6" screws I know of are generally used for tying railroad ties together and are found in the landscaping aisle at HD. :whistling2:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Because the only 6" screws I know of are generally used for tying railroad ties together and are found in the landscaping aisle at HD. :whistling2:


Amen.......


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Amen.......


And I only know that from doing some landscape lighting where I played the role of landscape tech and EC too!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Because the only 6" screws I know of are generally used for tying railroad ties together and are found in the landscaping aisle at HD. :whistling2:


These are bona-fide drywall screws special ordered for me.. (25) years ago.. from a lumber yard that is now a IHOP restaurant..


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Here is a method to use instead of B4T's long drywall screw method. Cut opening in ceiling. Reach thru and mark mounting holes for a 2-1/2" pipe floor flange . Drill out for 3/8" rod anchors in the marked locations. Install upper 2-1/2" floor flange to ceiling above fixture location. Measure and thread length of 2-1/2" rigid galvanized conduit. (thread both ends in case you do not know how or where I am going with this...) Screw on another 2-1/2" floor flange in the opposite orientations so that the large flat part of the flange is facing down. Drill appropriate 3/8" bolt holes in the top of the halo recess remodel can housing. Connect the wiring in the junction box, and push the Halo recess remodel can and spare romex length up into the ceiling opening. Bolt thru the top of the recess remodel can into the floor flange with 3/8" threaded bolts of the appropriate length. Now that should be secure enough to keep McClary happy......


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Here is a method to use instead of B4T's long drywall screw method. Cut opening in ceiling. Reach thru and mark mounting holes for a 2-1/2" pipe floor flange . Drill out for 3/8" rod anchors in the marked locations. Install upper 2-1/2" floor flange to ceiling above fixture location. Measure and thread length of 2-1/2" rigid galvanized conduit. (thread both ends in case you do not know how or where I am going with this...) Screw on another 2-1/2" floor flange in the opposite orientations so that the large flat part of the flange is facing down. Drill appropriate 3/8" bolt holes in the top of the halo recess remodel can housing. Connect the wiring in the junction box, and push the Halo recess remodel can and spare romex length up into the ceiling opening. Bolt thru the top of the recess remodel can into the floor flange with 3/8" threaded bolts of the appropriate length. Now that should be secure enough to keep McClary happy......





Just spray-foam it in place. :thumbup:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Anyone use Elite? When I can they are all I use..... Never have any issues, and the clips always go in nice and easy and stay tight.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> These are bona-fide drywall screws special ordered for me.. (25) years ago.. from a lumber yard that is now a IHOP restaurant..


They have them at HD up here....:thumbup:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Just spray-foam it in place. :thumbup:


Sarcasm, dude .......


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> These are bona-fide drywall screws special ordered for me.. (25) years ago.. from a lumber yard that is now a IHOP restaurant..


IHOP is great!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Sarcasm, dude .......


I know :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> They have them at HD up here....:thumbup:


Are you sure.. :blink:.. just in case mine look like this but 6" long..

The threaded part is 1/3 the length of the screw..


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Those are probably roofing screws that you have.


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## cal1947 (Nov 14, 2009)

*tofer*

halo are a piece of **** juno's are the best , but lightolier are "2 on my list


B4T said:


> Next time I will hire an EE and have them do a stress test on the lip of the can compared to the density of the drywall.. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Those are probably roofing screws that you have.


Then the head would be much larger with a washer attached to it..


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

B4T said:


> Then the head would be much larger with a washer attached to it..


I've seen many roofing screws just like you explained. The same small head since a disc will be used with it to hold the foam down.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Hunter fans ship them useless 4" screws that would strip way before you could drive one all the way unless you predrill an oversize hole first....


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

cal1947 said:


> halo are a piece of **** juno's are the best , but lightolier are "2 on my list


Yeah I prefer Juno, but remember to cut on the INSIDE of the template mark.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Are you sure.. :blink:.. just in case mine look like this but 6" long..
> 
> The threaded part is 1/3 the length of the screw..


 IDK i'll take a look tomorrow...:thumbsup:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Here is a method to use instead of B4T's long drywall screw method. Cut opening in ceiling. Reach thru and mark mounting holes for a 2-1/2" pipe floor flange . Drill out for 3/8" rod anchors in the marked locations. Install upper 2-1/2" floor flange to ceiling above fixture location. Measure and thread length of 2-1/2" rigid galvanized conduit. (thread both ends in case you do not know how or where I am going with this...) Screw on another 2-1/2" floor flange in the opposite orientations so that the large flat part of the flange is facing down. Drill appropriate 3/8" bolt holes in the top of the halo recess remodel can housing. Connect the wiring in the junction box, and push the Halo recess remodel can and spare romex length up into the ceiling opening. Bolt thru the top of the recess remodel can into the floor flange with 3/8" threaded bolts of the appropriate length. Now that should be secure enough to keep McClary happy......



It's a freakin' Hi-Hat! Not a damn tire swing!!!!! (:laughing::laughing

When your done- is the house gonna fall/burn down?
Did the check clear?

Then it is all good!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

leland said:


> It's a freakin' Hi-Hat! Not a damn tire swing!!!!! (:laughing::laughing
> 
> When your done- is the house gonna fall/burn down?
> Did the check clear?
> ...



Why cannot I put up some stupid sh_ _ without some dummies taking what I say seriously?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Why cannot I put up some stupid sh_ _ without some dummies taking what I say seriously?


Because a simple drywall screw just sounds... too simple.. :no::laughing:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Why cannot I put up some stupid sh_ _ without some dummies taking what I say seriously?



Your the only one to take me seriously!!! I'm flattered!!!! :blush:


An' I aint no Dummie!!:whistling2:

Carry on!:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

If there is a piece of wood up there right on the edge of the hole I'm screwing the can too it.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

6" halo cans I just push the can up, start the clips a little bit and then smack them with my linesmans. Not a smack really but a dead blow and then hold them there while I put pressure on the clip with my screwdriver. Then I tap up with my linesmans on the screwdriver.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

you have to lightly bend the legs open a little bit...Especially if your putting them in plaster ceiling...If its lath, Its always benificiall to try to pry off some of the excess plaster between the lath, but real carefully and bend the legs open a bit. If its think plaster and wire mesh you can be a little tougher with banging in the legs, and open them up a bit too. 
Not using a screw if your next to a beam or stud is idiodic IMO..if your on a beam and you cant set the one leg do you guys just omit it..? .Why is it hack.....? some of you guys are really smoking something good...and have zero make it work skills... Or just full of crap and love to let everyone think everything always works out for you....
I work in the real world, what about you..? :thumbsup: aww you guys really give me a good laugh sometimes.....:laughing:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Not using a screw if your next to a beam or stud is idiodic IMO..if your on a beam and you cant set the one leg do you guys just omit it..? .Why is it hack.....? some of you guys are really smoking something good...and have zero make it work skills...
> I work in the real world, what about you..? :thumbsup: aww you guys really give me a good laugh sometimes.....:laughing:


Next to wood is one thing, B4T is talking about a SIX inch sheetrock screw. That's nowhere near close to the wood. I'll screw them too if it's close but if it's far enough away for the clip to suck down that's what I'm using.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> Next to wood is one thing, B4T is talking about a SIX inch sheetrock screw. That's nowhere near close to the wood. I'll screw them too if it's close but if it's far enough away for the clip to suck down that's what I'm using.


 oh I didnt get that far....I didnt know they made them that long...Im sure he is a good judge of what will work or not...Hes been in busines for a long time fellas...


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

We would not be able to call ourselves good electricians if we didn't criticize every other electricians work.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

bobelectric said:


> Any secrets to install 6" halo cans? I can't make the clips always work.


Don't use Halo remodel cans. I like their new work cans. I can't stand their remodel cans and for that I use Lightolier.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Don't use Halo remodel cans. I like their new work cans. I can't stand their remodel cans and for that I use Lightolier.


 whats the price differance on lightolier and halo 6 inchers..? I use halo because they are more readily available around here..


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Hey B4T, where you getting these 6" screws cause I need some??


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> whats the price differance on lightolier and halo 6 inchers..? I use halo because they are more readily available around here..


About the same price for the can and basic white baffle trim. There is a basic 5" Lightolier trim that costs around $13 which is comparable to a Halo 310W.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> If there is a piece of wood up there right on the edge of the hole I'm screwing the can too it.


OMG... HACK!!!!!:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Hey B4T, where you getting these 6" screws cause I need some??


I have about 45# left.. PM me a mailing address and I will send you some.. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have about 45# left.. PM me a mailing address and I will send you some.. :thumbsup:


Can you PM me your mailing address instead?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I dont understand why no one has come up with a clip that is similar to plastic cut in clips..? The clips for halo cuts ins is a pain in the ass to get in and god forbid you have to take it out again from a plaster ceiling, especially on the ic cans...


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have about 45# left.. PM me a mailing address and I will send you some.. :thumbsup:


That means you used 5 pounds on various hack jobs over the years. :thumbsup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

What's a plastic cut in clip?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> What's a plastic cut in clip?


 the metal clips from a grey cut in box...


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> What's a plastic cut in clip?


Probably the clips on a plastic old work box.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> OMG... HACK!!!!!:laughing:


Damn straight, this hack also charges like a dollar a drywall screw. :thumbup:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I see what you mean. In ceiling speakers have something similar to that.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> I have about 45# left.. PM me a mailing address and I will send you some.. :thumbsup:


Never mind I just checked my fastener supply company, they got them and I can get them in coated too. :clap:I don't use actual drywall screws, they either have to be coated deck screws or gold wood screws.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> I see what you mean. In ceiling speakers have something similar to that.


 I do tons and tons of work in old plaster homes and they all seem to want recessed lights....I pretty much just try to sell five and six inch cans now...It makes snaking in wires and such a lot easier... 
More room to get your hands in the ceiliing and such....But I agree that the fastening systems on them really need an update...The first company that comes out with a better clip will be my brand for sure..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> oh I didnt get that far....I didnt know they made them that long...Im sure he is a good judge of what will work or not...Hes been in busines for a long time fellas...


If the bean is 1" away or 6" away.. I have a simple fix for it and the problem is solved..

As I said in a previous post.. sometimes you come across new work housings where the clip that holds the fixture breaks off..

Your options are either cut open the ceiling to change the housing or use a drywall screw..

Seems pretty simple to me, but some of these boy scouts start yelling HACK right away..:no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Seems pretty simple to me, but some of these boy scouts start yelling HACK right away..:no:


Simple question, which you will no doubt ignore. Am I a hack because I use the feed through GFCI option?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

B4T said:


> If the bean is 1" away or 6" away.. I have a simple fix for it and the problem is solved..
> 
> As I said in a previous post.. sometimes you come across new work housings where the clip that holds the fixture breaks off..
> 
> ...


 I think that a great many fellas in here have become or are slaves to their super egos, or so says Sigmun Freud..you cant take it to serious, think of it as a dog barking at night...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Simple question, which you will no doubt ignore. Am I a hack because I use the feed through GFCI option?


This is how you sell your jobs..

Me personally* I* would feel like a hack using that method..

I always upsell any job that have multiple GFI's and people have no problem taking my advise..

Feel free to keep selling the way you are and I will keep making money selling the repair after the HO can't figure out why the garage GFI controls the receptacle back on the patio..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> This is how you sell your jobs..
> 
> Me personally* I* would feel like a hack using that method..
> 
> ...


You still didn't answer the question. Am I a hack for using that method?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Peter D said:


> You still didn't answer the question. Am I a hack for using that method?


 No you are a butcher...:laughing:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

captkirk said:


> I think that a great many fellas in here have become or are slaves to their super egos, or so says Sigmun Freud..you cant take it to serious, think of it as a dog barking at night...


 Basically ....they want people to think they are better than they really are...and sarchasim and insults are the number one tool to get it done....We all get a little caught up in it, but some guys are habitual offenders...


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Basically ....they want people to think they are better than they really are...and sarchasim and insults are the number one tool to get it done....We all get a little caught up in it, but some guys are habitual offenders...


Dude. He's talking about putting a six inch sheetrock screw through the side of a can into the joist. It may not be hack but it is stupid. Just use the clips, it's what they are for.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Basically ....they want people to think they are better than they really are...and sarchasim and insults are the number one tool to get it done....We all get a little caught up in it, but some guys are habitual offenders...


I'll never say I'm "code superior" or anything like that. But there are some things that are blatantly obvious hack jobs and other things you can let slide.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You still didn't answer the question. Am I a hack for using *that* method?


I was wrong for saying the method was hack.. I admit that.. I was expressing my feelings on *that* way of doing electrical work..

My reasons for feeling this way is because there is a better job to be sold to the customer.. other than a fishing expedition to find the right GFI to reset..

EVERY house I go into that have that setup, the people can't understand why something so stupid would be "code compliant"..

My reply has always been to save money.. a whooping $40.00 on a house that sold for $500,000 and up.. that makes them even more incensed..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Dude. He's talking about putting a six inch sheetrock screw through the side of a can into the joist. It may not be hack but it is stupid. Just use the clips, it's what they are for.


See post #68.. and then tell me which way is "stupid"


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

MF Dagger said:


> Dude. He's talking about putting a six inch sheetrock screw through the side of a can into the joist. It may not be hack but it is stupid. Just use the clips, it's what they are for.


 I Like B4T so im not a good person to ask...


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Peter D said:


> I'll never say I'm "code superior" or anything like that. But there are some things that are blatantly obvious hack jobs and other things you can let slide.


 no doubt brother...ive seen some real sh itty work in my days...and lots of make it work stuff...the drywall screw is a tough call....I usually can make the clips work...I even have a nice stash in the van....


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I Like B4T so im not a good person to ask...


Thanks Tony.. A posted an answer for him..


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> See post #68.. and then tell me which way is "stupid"


Your way is stupid. Is that all you are wondering? I'm not saying it's hack to put a screw in the side of a can when it's logical and necessary, I'm just saying stocking 50 pounds of 6" sheetrock screws to hang a half a pound can light is stupid.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

Whats wrong with the clips they come with?


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

gold said:


> Whats wrong with the clips they come with?


Too hard to clip. I'd rather drive 24 inches of screws through the side.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I was wrong for saying the method was hack.. I admit that.. I was expressing my feelings on *that* way of doing electrical work..
> 
> My reasons for feeling this way is because there is a better job to be sold to the customer.. other than a fishing expedition to find the right GFI to reset..
> 
> ...


Finally, a straight answer. Was that so hard?  I can respect that.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> I use a drywall screw through the side of the can into the closest beam..
> 
> I stock screws up to 6" for that purpose..
> 
> If there is no beam within reach.. you can hot glue a block of 2X4 next to the can and use a screw..


In defense of B4T, considering a typical ceiling joist bay is 14 1/2" wide, and a 6" can is 6 1/8" in diameter, the edge of the can would never be more than 4 3/16" away from the wood, IF it is exactly centered. Considering a new construction can only has 3 screws holding the can to the frame, I'd say that a remodel can with 3 feet secured and a long drywall screw into wood is more than a secure installation. As someone else said earlier, as long as it passes the "i think it's sturdy" test, then its good. I honestly have never seen a more catty bunch of b!tches, including all 6 years of high school.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Your way is stupid. Is that all you are wondering? I'm not saying it's hack to put a screw in the side of a can when it's logical and necessary, I'm just saying stocking 50 pounds of 6" sheetrock screws to hang a half a pound can light is stupid.


I could only get the screws in bulk and got them for fixing a few ballasts..

Sometimes you need the right hardware to fix a problem.. with a 6" can, that length of screw will reach either side of the bay..

The OP was about getting the clips to work.. I am supplying a way to fix the problem AND fix another problem with new work housings when the retaining clips snap off..

YOU are stupid for being so close minded and not understanding what I am saying.. :no:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Until this thread I never even thought of using a 6" screw to secure a can. Sure, there have been times when the can was so close to the joist that I couldn't get the clip to work, so I had to resort to screwing through the side of the can to secure it. But to use a 6" screw to hold it in seems silly when the clips are made for it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

B W E said:


> In defense of B4T, considering a typical ceiling joist bay is 14 1/2" wide, and a 6" can is 6 1/8" in diameter, the edge of the can would never be more than 4 3/16" away from the wood, IF it is exactly centered. Considering a new construction can only has 3 screws holding the can to the frame, I'd say that a remodel can with 3 feet secured and a long drywall screw into wood is more than a secure installation. As someone else said earlier, as long as it passes the "i think it's sturdy" test, then its good. I honestly have never seen a more catty bunch of b!tches, including all 6 years of high school.


You beat my thoughs by (1) minute.. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Until this thread I never even thought of using a 6" screw to secure a can. Sure, there have been times when the can was so close to the joist that I couldn't get the clip to work, so I had to resort to screwing through the side of the can to secure it. But to use a 6" screw to hold it in seems silly when the clips are made for it.


OK.. we got that.. move onto a (25) year old new work housing where the retaining clip snapped off..

Sometimes the TP goes bad and you have to remove the can by twisting it..

That can snap off the retaining clip.. so now how do you re-secure the can after changing the TP.. :blink:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> OK.. we got that.. move onto a (25) year old new work housing where the retaining clip snapped off..
> 
> Sometimes the TP goes bad and you have to remove the can by twisting it..
> 
> That can snap off the retaining clip.. so now how do you re-secure the can after changing the TP.. :blink:


Well, since you asked, and I've never had to do this, but new work cans generally have a metal plate that sits on top of the sheetrock. I'd probably use a long teck screw at an angle and go into the baffle. I don't stock 6" screws. :no: :laughing:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

Desperate times call for desperate measures. You have used 5 pounds of 6" drywall screws. I have gone my entire life not using 1 single 6" drywall screw. Either I am missing the boat on how awesome these super long drywall screws with no shear strength are or else I am finding an easier better way of doing things.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> OK.. we got that.. move onto a (25) year old new work housing where the retaining clip snapped off..
> 
> Sometimes the TP goes bad and you have to remove the can by twisting it..
> 
> That can snap off the retaining clip.. so now how do you re-secure the can after changing the TP.. :blink:


Hang on, why is there Toilet Paper in a can light, and why are we changing it???




:laughing:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

B4T said:


> OK.. we got that.. move onto a (25) year old new work housing where the retaining clip snapped off..
> 
> Sometimes the TP goes bad and you have to remove the can by twisting it..
> 
> That can snap off the retaining clip.. so now how do you re-secure the can after changing the TP.. :blink:


Take the clips out first.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I acually do have a few 4 1/2 inch sheet rock screws in the van for emergency stuff and I keep them wrapped in a towel in my glove box like they are The dead sea scrolls or some sort of artifact .....but I have a new mision now to find the coveted 6 incher.... Its the sort of thing that can really save your ass one day...Im sure at that lengeth they have a square head no.?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

If a screw is what you have then run it. Seems like too much work to me.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

gold said:


> If a screw is what you have then run it. Seems like too much work to me.


 what part of Jersey are you from...? Im in Essex county


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

captkirk said:


> I acually do have a few 4 1/2 inch sheet rock screws in the van for emergency stuff and I keep them wrapped in a towel in my glove box like they are The dead sea scrolls or some sort of artifact .....but I have a new mision now to find the coveted 6 incher.... Its the sort of thing that can really save your ass one day...Im sure at that lengeth they have a square head no.?


Fazio's in Williamstown. I go every few weeks for hardware everything is sold by the pound. Worth the trip.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

http://www.google.com/products/cata...Tb74OpCosQPuysGcAQ&ved=0CC4Q8wIwAg#ps-sellers


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

captkirk said:


> what part of Jersey are you from...? Im in Essex county


Salem ...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

gold said:


> Take the clips out first.


The clips are riveted to the housing.. they are not removable..


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

B4T said:


> The clips are riveted to the housing.. they are not removable..


on a six inch old work halo? My memory must be failing I swear I remember a small black metal tab.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> I acually do have a few 4 1/2 inch sheet rock screws in the van for emergency stuff and I keep them wrapped in a towel in my glove box like they are The dead sea scrolls or some sort of artifact .....but I have a new mision now to find the coveted 6 incher.... Its the sort of thing that can really save your ass one day...Im sure at that lengeth they have a square head no.?


No.. the head looks like a regular drywall screw and if you want some.. I have plenty..


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

gold said:


> on a six inch old work halo? My memory must be failing I swear I remember a small black metal tab.


He's talking about a new construction can. Where the three screws screw to. Why a self tapper wasn't considered first is beyond me.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

MF Dagger said:


> He's talking about a new construction can. Where the three screws screw to. Why a self tapper wasn't considered first is beyond me.


Now the thread makes a little more sense ... I guess.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

gold said:


> on a six inch old work halo? My memory must be failing I swear I remember a small black metal tab.


I have used many Atlite cans.. they were very popular here on Long Island..

The clip has a rivet in the center and moves when you twist the can..

Otherwise the retaining clips dig into the can and you will never get it out..

The ones outside in soffits are rusted.. and break off easily..

Those are a pain to fix because they have steel framing..

That is where the 2x4 block and hot glue come in handy to secure the can back into the housing..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> He's talking about a new construction can. Where the three screws screw to. Why a self tapper wasn't considered first is beyond me.


Different type of housing made by Atlite.. there are only clips on the outside of the can..

One of you guy will now get a call about this.. :laughing:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

B4T said:


> I have used many Atlite cans.. they were very popular here on Long Island..
> 
> The clip has a rivet in the center and moves when you twist the can..
> 
> ...


Makes perfect sense now. I made my own clips out of coat hangers once for progress cans in a soffit. The ones they came with wouldn't close on the thin soffit. Basically just drilled two holes in the can and put in a small horse shoe shaped piece of wire hanger. Very tight. 

Look at the the light o leers (1102 I think) they actually show you in the directions to sandwich the rock and housing with a staple.


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

I have no idea where this thread went from halo remodel cans to atlite new construction cans.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

gold said:


> Makes perfect sense now. I made my own clips out of coat hangers once for progress cans in a soffit. The ones they came with wouldn't close on the thin soffit. Basically just drilled two holes in the can and put in a small horse shoe shaped piece of wire hanger. Very tight.
> 
> Look at the the light o leers (1102 I think) they actually show you in the directions to sandwich the rock and housing with a staple.


That is what it is all about.. you have to improvise when a problem like that comes up.. :thumbsup:

Some guys don't have those mechanical skills to get it done right and not have the can floating in the breeze the next day..


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> That is what it is all about.. you have to improvise when a problem like that comes up.. :thumbsup:
> 
> Some guys don't have those mechanical skills to get it done right and not have the can floating in the breeze the next day..


This right here is why people have no problem telling you when you say something stupid. If you are in any way implying that I don't have the mechanical skills necessary to hold a can in place without using 6" screws you can kiss my ass.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> I have no idea where this thread went from halo remodel cans to atlite new construction cans.


My fault.. i was describing fixing retaining clips on new work cans, but forgot to mention the brand..

If you ever worked with Atlite.. you understand what I am saying..

My point was using the screws to fix other problems beside the ones with Halo remodeling clips..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> This right here is why people have no problem telling you when you say something stupid. If you are in any way implying that I don't have the mechanical skills necessary to hold a can in place without using 6" screws you can kiss my ass.


Do you have 6" screws sitting in your truck waiting for a place to go??


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> This right here is why people have no problem telling you when you say something stupid. If you are in any way implying that I don't have the mechanical skills necessary to hold a can in place without using 6" screws you can kiss my ass.





B4T said:


> Do you have 6" screws sitting in your truck waiting for a place to go??


Fight! Fight! :boxing: :laughing:


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## MF Dagger (Dec 24, 2007)

B4T said:


> Do you have 6" screws sitting in your truck waiting for a place to go??


No. When I buy cans they have ways to attach them to the ceiling built in.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Fight! Fight! :boxing: :laughing:


Have the popcorn heated up already.. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Atlite sounds like garbage. No wonder they discontinued them.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

B4T said:


> Have the popcorn heated up already.. :laughing:


Ah good idea. Off to the microwave


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

B4T said:


> Do you have 6" screws sitting in your truck waiting for a place to go??


I have screws in zinc and chrome with round head and tapered head in every size from 1/2 " to 6"

same size selection for machine screws. Anchors of varrying types.

Bolts washers lock washers nylock nuts etc.

I hate improvising because I dont have hardware. But I don't mind improvising when I have it. Best part is I get it all for a buck or two a pound.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> No. When I buy cans they have ways to attach them to the ceiling built in.


I understand that.. the whole point of all these posts was a way to fix a problem if things don't go as planned..

It has nothing to do with your mechanical skills at all.. sometimes those stupid clips don't work.. instead of taking the can back out of the ceiling.. I just use a screw..

You never had a reason to have long screws waiting for a home.. I have and that is the only reason I have them now..

If the job comes your way.. a simple screw just might be your first thought..

That was not a dig at your "mechanical skills".. I don't have a clue what you are about.. 

As far as my "stupid posts".. I could care less what some of you think..

For everyone that calls me stupid, there are just as many listening to what I have to say..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Atlite sounds like garbage. No wonder they discontinued them.


They had their problems.. but I worked with a few interior designers who liked the idea of having a removable baffle and an all metal can..

I would drop off the cans and the painter would paint the lip same color as the ceiling..

With Halo cans.. the baffle has always been plastic..

Now I will use Lightolier cans because I have so many Atlite cans out in the field..

Another problem with Atlite was their "remodeling clips".. they were a "T" shaped piece of metal about the size of a metal zipper handle..

You would use these clips to hold the can into the ceiling.. but soon as you pushed in the baffle.. the clips loosened up.. :blink:

That was the main reason for getting these long drywall screws.. it was the *only* way of making these cans stay in the ceiling..


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I effing hate Halo/Elite recessed cans and we still install *thousands *of them.

If the ceiling is plaster, bend the clips out a bit. If the cans seem loose, bend them in a bit (I remember a batch of Halos a while back where *all* the clips had to be sqieezed in)

Sometimes, for whatever reason, you can't use the clips. Maybe the crappy drywall breaks out too much. Maybe it's too close to some lumber. That's when you use a screw. If you need a 6" screw and _happen to have one_, what's the problem?

I would never have a screw longer than 3-4" in stock so I'd end up screwing some backing in place, up thru the drywall, and screwing the can to it.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> Desperate times call for desperate measures. You have used 5 pounds of 6" drywall screws. I have gone my entire life not using 1 single 6" drywall screw. Either I am missing the boat on how awesome these super long drywall screws with no shear strength are or else I am finding an easier better way of doing things.


 

You don't need much shear strength to hold a can light.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

B$T presents are real world solution to a real world problem and gets his busted on.:laughing: He's like Rodney Dangerfield - no respect.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

bobelectric said:


> Any secrets to install 6" halo cans? I can't make the clips always work.


Thanks for you help!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Since everybody was bashing B4T on his six inch screws, and nobody else seemed to think about this, Me, if there is a six inch hole cut for a six inch can into a ceiling and the nearest wood member is six inches away, I'm framing in something closer to cheat to than six friggin inches. You can practically stuff a sheet of plywood thru a six inch round hole......... certainly big enough to scab in some more 2x4 cut pieces to bring the bracing closer to the can. And my Makita cordless impact will fit thru a six inch round hole as well. Bada boom. :whistling2:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MF Dagger said:


> I have no idea where this thread went from halo remodel cans to atlite new construction cans.


When b4t lied and said the clips are not removable....then he backed up and changed cans...


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

B4T said:


> They had their problems.. but I worked with a few interior designers who liked the idea of having a removable baffle and an all metal can..
> 
> I would drop off the cans and the painter would paint the lip same color as the ceiling..
> 
> ...





We use Halo's and they make a Metal enclosed trim. White trim, socket clips into top of trim. Completely enclosed and air tight trim.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> We use Halo's and they make a Metal enclosed trim. White trim, socket clips into top of trim. Completely enclosed and air tight trim.


It is called a Halo 30WAT if the baffle is white and 30PAT if the baffle is black.

The trick to the remodel cans is as you said earlier-- you have to lock the clip in place with a screwdriver by pushing up on the clamp.

The trick when you are close to a floor joist is to turn the can so that 2 of the 4 clamps are off to the sides of the joist. I can usually make that work.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> you have to lock the clip in place with a screwdriver by pushing up on the clamp.


You don't always need to use a screwdriver, in fact, I rarely do because that's what causes damage to the can in most cases. 

When I'm putting the can in, I push on the opposite side of the can as the clip I am locking down. For instance, if the clip is at 3:00, I put my hand inside the can at 9:00 and push outward, creating a bit of a gap between the drywall and the can at 3:00, on the side where the clip is. This is because of the lower portion of the clip that must fit BETWEEN the drywall and the can. I use a holesaw to cut all my recessed light holes and the hole is the perfect size to allow me to work the can to get all 4 feet down. If I'm up against a joist.... I'll shoot in a screw.

Using a screwdriver makes it so easy to deform the slot in the can where the clip is that it can cause the clip to not he able to stay tight. In that case, I'll use a piece of threaded rod, a superscrew, and a nut and a washer and just ram it into the closest joist or roof sheeting. Sometimes I've even
Had to attach an eye-bolt to the side of the can and then go up into the attic with a come-along and ratchet it nice and tight to a stringer or a rafter.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> When b4t lied and said the clips are not removable....then he backed up and changed cans...


I didn't lie.. :no:

I had started a thread a few days ago about Atlite 148 & 149 cans being discontinued and had that setup on my brain..

I mentioned on multiple threads  about the clips snapping off..

Look at page (64) item (95) it shows a picture of the clips.. they are riveted in the center and have a short side and a long side..

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con.../library/literature/Atlite/AtLite_Catalog.swf


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I mentioned on multiple threads  about the clips snapping off..
> 
> Look at page (64) item (95) it shows a picture of the clips.. they are riveted in the center and have a short side and a long side..
> 
> http://www.cooperindustries.com/con.../library/literature/Atlite/AtLite_Catalog.swf


Those clips are an exact copy of Lightolier's system. Otherwise, their regular cans look just like a rebranded Halo.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> We use Halo's and they make a Metal enclosed trim. White trim, socket clips into top of trim. Completely enclosed and air tight trim.


I used that the other day.. but lamp only goes up to 75w R30..

When taking apart the socket assembly.. there is like a 4" round plate that is clipped to the socket..

I didn't use the plates with the trim, but I didn't throw them out either.. YET

Are they necessary for the trims to function properly?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> I used that the other day.. but lamp only goes up to 75w R30..
> 
> When taking apart the socket assembly.. there is like a 4" round plate that is clipped to the socket..
> 
> ...


The socket flange? No, it's not needed for a full baffle trim like the airtight.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Those clips are an exact copy of Lightolier's system. Otherwise, their regular cans look just like a rebranded Halo.


The only thing I don't like about the Lightolier cans is the baffle is glued in.. 

I was always able to tell the painters to take them out so they don't slobber white paint on a black baffle..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The socket flange? No, it's not needed for a full baffle trim like the airtight.


It looked like a heat sink when a standard trim is used..


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> It looked like a heat sink when a standard trim is used..



No, it's just used to retain certain trims. Some trims require the baffle, others don't. If you weren't a hack, you would know this.  :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> No, it's just used to retain certain trims. Some trims require the baffle, others don't. If you weren't a hack, you would know this.  :laughing:


And you were doing so good.. sounding almost like a normal person till the meds wore off... :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> And you were doing so good.. sounding almost like a normal person till the meds wore off... :laughing:


Pot...kettle...black....


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The socket bracket is only used for trims that don't have a place for the socket to snap into. I usually order the H7ICTNB cans because they don't have the bracket. This saves a lot of time on trim out.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> The socket bracket is only used for trims that don't have a place for the socket to snap into. I usually order the H7ICTNB cans because they don't have the bracket. This saves a lot of time on trim out.



My supply house carrys them both ways. They are cheaper without the brackets and like you said install quicker.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> My supply house carrys them both ways. They are cheaper without the brackets and like you said install quicker.


We pay the same with or without the bracket and yes my supplier has them also.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Personally, I'm a big fan of the H5 series, and they all come non-bracketed. The selection of trims is very limited compared to the H7 series, but so what? How many trims do you need? As I said before, if it's new work - Halo. Old work - Lightolier.


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