# What I think of QO Arc-Faults



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Sounds like you should've used a Siemans.


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## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

Cutler hammer has a CH model where the front of the AFCI actually snaps onto the neutral busbar, no little curly wire at all, it's actually a nice design


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## kbatku (Oct 18, 2011)

Do your panel innards get so wet they actually need drip loops?

Wow.


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## surf (Jan 17, 2012)

lol,funny stuff.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

thegoldenboy said:


> Sounds like you should've used a Siemans.



Or Midol.

Why the heck do you need 'drip loops'?

Just tighten the connectors and the electricity wont leak out.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Try Murray next time.. their AFCI breakers were EZ to install.. :thumbsup:


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

leland said:


> Or Midol.
> 
> Why the heck do you need 'drip loops'?
> 
> Just tighten the connectors and the electricity wont leak out.


:lol::clap::lol: I installed a 200 sq.d. QO service panel installed 13 arc. fault breakers ,not pretty for sure, yet i'm not into fashion design:laughing:Give a 100% effort and leave it at that:thumbsup: GOD is an atheist!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

I make all connections and then snap breaker in.


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## thoenew (Jan 17, 2012)

You can make a Square D panel look nice with AFCI breakers. Attach the neutral to the breaker before you snap it in.

Although I do like the concept of the new CH snap over breakers.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I think you just had a bad day, and the little things got to you.
Tomorrow will be better.:thumbup:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

did you ever think that they dont like you...:whistling2::laughing:... i have yet to install an Arc Fault breaker..... I did however install 6 gfci breakers in my own panel... New baby will do that to you.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> I can say, after today, Square-D QO arc-faults suck, and whoever designed them should be taken out of their cubicle, brought outside, and shot, then shot again just for good measure. Stupid damn design, where it is ridiculously easy to have the conductor miss the terminal completely, but you can't actually tell until you tighten the screw all the way. Not to mention the fact that the terminals wobble in the breaker themselves worse than a whore on a sack of apples. The stranded pigtail is also on just long enough to reach the neutral bar, so it makes it much harder to keep my panel looking pretty, and since the breaker sits so far into the can, I don't have room for tidy little drip loops, which my boss requires me to do. Plus, the neutral terminal hangs waaay out past the outside clip to hold the breaker in, so if you actually try to snug the breaker without hanging on to the damn thing it pops right off the damn bus bar! What a stupid god damn design. I have a 200A 40 space panel that is going to have 25 of these things in it when all is said and done, and it is going to look like ****, and there isn't a damn thing I can do to about it. Rat bastards.


Those panels ****....:no:


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

ohiosparky99 said:


> Cutler hammer has a CH model where the front of the AFCI actually snaps onto the neutral busbar, no little curly wire at all, it's actually a nice design


So, they are bringing back the Trilliant design? (Gotta be a little old to remember those pieces of crap). Does the breaker snapping onto the neutral bar interfere with landing other neutrals? Did they run the neutral bar all the way down both sides, or do your AFCI breakers have to be in certain locations?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I make all connections and then snap breaker in.


Never thought to do that, but it is a dang good idea.

My boss man/dad requires me to leave extra wire before terminating in a panel. I think it looks stupid, but I can at least make it look tidy. On this same project, I had a sub panel that I tap ruled off a main breaker, and didn't leave mickey mouse ears and he made me go to the supply house, pick up more wire, and redo it. :blink:

Yes, I had a bad day yesterday. The house we have been working in has a steam boiler, and it has been chilly the past few months, so the thing runs a lot. I had to work in crawlspaces quite a bit, and all through the basement around the boiler, and got burned a few times. Today, I said screw it and just turned the boiler off for a while and let the pipes cool down, and all was gravy in the world.


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## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

Drip loops and Mikey Mouse ears...too funny! I started out as a machine electrician and both would have been considered ultra-sloppy.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

ohiosparky99 said:


> Cutler hammer has a CH model where the front of the AFCI actually snaps onto the neutral busbar, no little curly wire at all, it's actually a nice design


That's crap. You should check out Murray some time. :thumbsup:

* sarcasm


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

B4T said:


> Try Murray next time.. their AFCI breakers were EZ to install.. :thumbsup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

ohiosparky99 said:


> Cutler hammer has a CH model where the front of the AFCI actually snaps onto the neutral busbar, no little curly wire at all, it's actually a nice design


mighty European of them.....~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Going_Commando said:


> Not to mention the fact that the terminals wobble in the breaker themselves worse than a whore on a sack of apples.


an apt analogy......~CS~


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Podagrower said:


> So, they are bringing back the Trilliant design? ....


Trilliant was a Square D fiasco. Not Cutler-Hammer.


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

kbsparky said:


> Trilliant was a Square D fiasco. Not Cutler-Hammer.


Yeah, but remember they had that ****** design for the ground fault breakers, they could only go in a few spaces. And you always remembered that after you landed your 220 wires you pulled short.


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## GWPrsqr (Apr 13, 2012)

I have to agree about the Sq D AFCI's. What a stupid design. Looks like a bad afterthought instead of a well thought out work of engineering. Takes up way too much panel space.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B4T said:


> Try Murray next time.. their AFCI breakers were EZ to install.. :thumbsup:


I got to say it.......Garbage.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

AFCI breakers pretty much ruined the neat panel...


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Going_Commando said:


> I can say, after today, Square-D QO arc-faults suck, and whoever designed them should be taken out of their cubicle, brought outside, and shot, then shot again just for good measure. Stupid damn design, where it is ridiculously easy to have the conductor miss the terminal completely, but you can't actually tell until you tighten the screw all the way. Not to mention the fact that the terminals wobble in the breaker themselves worse than a whore on a sack of apples. The stranded pigtail is also on just long enough to reach the neutral bar, so it makes it much harder to keep my panel looking pretty, and since the breaker sits so far into the can, I don't have room for tidy little drip loops, which my boss requires me to do. Plus, the neutral terminal hangs waaay out past the outside clip to hold the breaker in, so if you actually try to snug the breaker without hanging on to the damn thing it pops right off the damn bus bar! What a stupid god damn design. I have a 200A 40 space panel that is going to have 25 of these things in it when all is said and done, and it is going to look like ****, and there isn't a damn thing I can do to about it. Rat bastards.



They should make the pig tail long enough to reach anywhere in the panel or at least have a screw terminal for it so if it is too short you can remove the pigtail that came with it and make your own,,Instead of having to make splices.


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## thoenew (Jan 17, 2012)

captkirk said:


> AFCI breakers pretty much ruined the neat panel...


CH snap on arc faults work great.


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## MarkyMark (Jan 31, 2009)

At one time, Square D was the highest quality, most innovative, electrical distribution company. I think they are just skating off their reputation now, and haven't done anything to earn it in the past twenty years.


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## Frank Potts Sr (Apr 18, 2012)

I agree with the post above. Square D did a great job marketing their name in the past but now have many issues with their breakers. Their over priced, and have many failing features with their arc fault line. They had a major recall on the blue button arc fault line and with the later green button and combo white button arc faults just have major tripping issues. I think Square D decided to spend all their time with lawsuits ( suing every one they can.... over 100+ on file ) instead of building a working breaker. Cutler Hammer has the same issues but their new arc fault breakers with the led light seem to be working much better. The Siemens are the best hands down over both companies.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

MarkyMark said:


> At one time, Square D was the highest quality, most innovative, electrical distribution company. I think they are just skating off their reputation now, and haven't done anything to earn it in the past twenty years.


And the fallout has hit other brands....Schneider Electric (SqD's parent company) purchased APC (American Power Conversion) which was once the best line of UPS systems around. The origianl APC Company's tagline was "Legendary Reliability", and they lived up to the hype. I have a few of the originals that are over ten years old and other than battery changes (not unreasonable) they still work well. 

One of the last ones I bought was a unit shortly after the ownership change, it failed after a few years use with a lot of smoke. (I opened it up and the driver transistors for the inverter and several other parts had burned up.) I had one of the 250va models that lasted less than a day before it burned up, it's replacement lasted six months. 

My other complaint is that they kept cutting back on the features with the same or higher prices staying in place. Early units had several LEDs for all kinds of conditions (On Battery, Replace Battery, Overload, Building Wiring Fault) but the new ones have a single led that tells almost nothing. 

I gave up and use Tripp-Lite and Middle Atlantic (I think they are made by Tripp-Lite) brands instead. The Tripp-Lite I have at home (see my rack pics in the "Media Center" thread) has an LCD display that imparts a lot of info, including incoming voltage, battery status, battery time remaining, etc.


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