# Am I wasting my time?



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I'm still employed in the oil patch (thankfully) but I haven't been learning that much. I spent a few months on cable pull, and have since moved on to tray. I might be able to do some heat trace in the fall, but I expect to be laid off in November at the latest. Should I look for something else with a bit more of a learning curve? I'll be a 4th year pretty soon but all I have is a couple years worth of commercial, and this. 

I'm not whining, just that apprentices are usually told to stay away from large industrial sites. I know a few who've been switched into doing office work, for example.


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Industrial work is a funny thing. If you took the average working well seasoned commercial or residential electrician and dropped them into your would, they would be totally lost.
Something else to consider.
A big complaint for some guys is getting stuck on a long term project as an apprentice and only doing underground or conduit racks their entire apprentiship, turning out and never touching a piece of 1/2" EMT or #12 wire.

Our trade is vast and very few ever get a completely well rounded experience with half of it. 
Just get in the habit of working hard and safe at the task at hand. I always look for new opportunities.
You are very fortunate to be working during a boom time.


----------



## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

The kicker is that you want tot stay employed as long as possible. There just isn't a lot of opportunity out there right now. If you're looking for a variety, try a small shop, they may do a bit of everything other than the large commercial/industrial. But a small shop my be lacking on bennies, tools safety policy. I know it's better out there vs when I started but.
What do you want, work up the ladder, foreman, super. Or get experience with a little bit of everything and start your own shop?

Tim.


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Do whatever it takes to finish your apprenticeship & get your card. Apprenticeships are hard to get & you don't want to be a "forever" apprentice.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> Industrial work is a funny thing. If you took the average working well seasoned commercial or residential electrician and dropped them into your would, they would be totally lost.
> Something else to consider.
> A big complaint for some guys is getting stuck on a long term project as an apprentice and only doing underground or conduit racks their entire apprentiship, turning out and never touching a piece of 1/2" EMT or #12 wire.
> 
> ...


Fify!


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Honestly if you want to become a great electrician I would find a small contractor(under 20 or so guys) and go from there. You can't get decent work experience working on a large commercial job where you do not have to think, just look at prints.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Fify!


This is a bust time???


----------



## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> This is a bust time???


Depends on the economy where you are. In some areas everything rises and falls on one industry.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

It's about to be: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-25/wall-street-banks-are-sending-warning-signals


----------



## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Honestly if you want to become a great electrician I would find a small contractor(under 20 or so guys) and go from there. You can't get decent work experience working on a large commercial job where you do not have to think, just look at prints.


I cannot agree with the above reply enough, especially for an apprentice. This was my experience and there were a lot of "big job" electricians who would were completely unprepared to do small job work. This ranged from their work habits to their competency. Often times they couldn't or wouldn't do anything without a print.

A few years after I topped out I transitioned over to big powerhouse and refinery projects. The enormity of these were a little intimidating but only for a few days.

On a big job you have the time to get real good bending pipe that becomes a great asset if you return to "shopping" work.


----------



## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

You already have a few years in, finish what you started.
We have apprentices graduated that have only done solar fields.
Doing lot of low skilled work like setting glass, plugging in, moving materials, etc..
But in the end they completed their apprenticeship.

It's a complaint with all the big projects, commercial, industrial, union, non-union. You can get in a rut doing the same thing for ever. There guys that worked commercial that only put in devices all year. Or hung exit or emergency lighting fixtures. Anything big can get redundant. Hanging light fixtures. Pulling MC. Installing panel schedules. 

Small shops and jobs have more variety. But years later the competition of the apprenticeship is more important than a few more early years of mixed hands on.

Best I can suggest is in a positive way, ask your foreman to change up your tasks to improving your learning if there is the opportunity. But don't come off like you're complaining.

More experienced and proven workers tend to get the complex tasks. Just for the reason they can handle it with little supervision. It's a long road. Don't expect to be well rounded in 5 years. Don't think anyone is after 5.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

For me the real learning came after I topped out. (Finished my apprenticeship)


----------



## MCasey (Dec 7, 2016)

In agreement with others that have said to stay with it ad get that card. You should get a higher leevel of OJT as a new journeyman than an apprentice. We run journeymen heavy with various years of experience on our jobss and just use apprentices as a low level elctrical labor force. The rework job we just finished was six journeymen and one first year apprentice start to finish and two apprentices additionally at the start and one first year on the last two weeks. We rarely bring in many apprentices on for short term work.


----------



## damprobe (Aug 25, 2017)

My 2 cents would be to go into residential HVAC repair, specifically air conditioning. You can take online courses at your own pace/time, what you learn will also prep you for electrical as well.

Alternatively if you live in a large city and you want to make bank, go buy a used truck with at least a 15ft long bed and haul trash. no joke. I often have sites where getting a drop off is impractical or I don't want to hire the manpower to move everything from point a to point b so I hire a hauling crew for the convenience.
This one couple that started out four years ago began with one truck and did it all themselves. Last time I called them out they had three trucks going and employees (pretty sure under the table). 
When I first used them I could get them the same day now they have to schedule me in. The earliest I could get them was 9:00 am because they had two stops ahead of me. Got me thinking so I did the math - conservatively, with work comp, gas, truck maintenance, exorbitant dump fees, working 275 days out of year, accounting for some days to be slower than others, some pickups to be their minimum - some to be their maximum ($550, they are cheap for this area) I estimated they are clearing $300k a year with the number of trucks they now have, easily. Think how many people are paying cash too.


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

Bird dog said:


> Do whatever it takes to finish your apprenticeship & get your card. Apprenticeships are hard to get & you don't want to be a "forever" apprentice.


This is good advise , cause it's not like you STOP learning after you
get your qualifications (whatever form it comes in)...you should be
learning new applications up to the day you retire..Ya know?


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

lighterup said:


> This is good advise , cause it's not like you STOP learning after you
> get your qualifications (whatever form it comes in)...you should be
> learning new applications up to the day you retire..Ya know?


Yup. I got my masters license, but I have yet to practice the skills in the real world. It has made me a better journeyman though.

Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

*Make Hay While the Sun Shines*

Hold on a second, wasn't this you? 



splatz said:


> Just for the sake of argument, is the math here
> 
> 80 hours in 14 days at straight time and
> 60 hours at time and a half,
> ...


Brother: 



Proverbs 10:5-7 said:


> *Make hay while the sun shines*—that’s smart;
> go fishing during harvest—that’s stupid.


Money isn't everything, but in business, it's the main thing.


----------



## dirk103 (Jan 14, 2016)

Hey, I'm up here in the oilsands in Alberta right now. I started in industrial oilfield, then went and got a couple years commercial experience, then light industrial/controls, then went back to oilfield before I completed my ticket. It look me 7 years to finish.

Taking that long to finish made me loose out on a good chunk of cash, and let's face it, being an apprentice sucks, but it let me get some really great experience.

I feel like only getting 2 years commercial experience really closed a lot of doors on me. It may be hard for me to get a straight commercial job now, and even if I did, and was handed the prints for a big pipe run, I would be lost/slow for a little while which would definitely eat up any profit margin and piss everyone off.

Also in these times, especially in the union, being an apprentice is a huge advantage.
So am I saying to stay away from school for awhile? Maybe, dragging on your apprenticeship sucks, but you have to think long term.

Now I would happily trade my $130,000 (temporary and unreliable) a year job in for having a normal life doing commercial work in town, but I closed a lot of those doors. I hate to say it, but the work experience you're getting now counts for ****. Commercial guys new to industrial are known to be smart and hard workers - otherwise the wouldn't have a job.

I'm being a hypocrite here but I wouldn't be in a rush to get your ticket. Industrial Journeyman Electricians in Alberta right now are a dime a dozen, and it will be that way for several years. If you finish now, you'll be locking in your future.
I would recommend completing your ticket at a commercial company, and not before you can do journeyman level work there. Definitely don't up and quit what you're doing now though! I'd say start applying for some commercial work now and by the time you get laid off maybe you'll have a job to go to.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> This is a bust time???


The OP is in Canada, up there from the posts here you bet it is!


----------



## spinninwheels (Oct 28, 2012)

canbug said:


> The kicker is that you want tot stay employed as long as possible. There just isn't a lot of opportunity out there right now. If you're looking for a variety, try a small shop, they may do a bit of everything other than the large commercial/industrial. But a small shop my be lacking on bennies, tools safety policy. I know it's better out there vs when I started but.
> What do you want, work up the ladder, foreman, super. Or get experience with a little bit of everything and start your own shop?
> 
> Tim.


I couldn't agree more with what you said.

There is definitely a trade-off working for a small shop. The wages and bennies may be lacking, but the experience you attain is invaluable. And the remuneration is only short-term.

One of the things I learned to becoming a good electrician, and try and incorporate as much as possible - is the big picture. Whether it's the layout integrated with other trades, possible omissions in the specs, building in possible expansions during the rough-in, etc.

Think of it as a game of chess - always thinking many moves ahead of what's in front of you. Your experience and career is no different.


----------



## Switchgear277 (Mar 18, 2017)

I know the locals in ny, Nj try and rotate apprentices every few years 

So you don't get stuck with one shop and you get a variety of work 

Befor you become a jman


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I'm a bit late replying to this, but the electrical side of this job is winding down and they want us to help out other trades. I've been helping out with insulating cable trays. I have the option of going to school in January, but I'll be out of a job afterwards with no prospects. 

Not sure what to do as there seems to be little opportunity for a travelling apprentice like me right now. 

Maybe I'm better off making $35/hour as an industrual insulator then to not have a job once I'm a 4th year apprentice.

I haven't wired a panel or helped run a job yet so I'll be pretty much a 4th year by title only.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

shockme123 said:


> I'm a bit late replying to this, but the electrical side of this job is winding down and they want us to help out other trades. I've been helping out with insulating cable trays. I have the option of going to school in January, but I'll be out of a job afterwards with no prospects.
> 
> Not sure what to do as there seems to be little opportunity for a travelling apprentice like me right now.
> 
> ...


Don't worry buddy, it's all good. You've got from now until you die to worry about this silly nonsense. :thumbsup:

Some great advice here in this thread. Plenty of people get stuck doing one or two things during their first couple years. That's just the way it is. Especially with big jobs. So don't feel like you're alone, cause most of us dealt with that same issue. 

One thing to remember -- It's always better to be working than not. The bills keep coming. 

Big companies have much better pay rates, benefits, ect, but you get stuck in these ruts alot. You'll always be put where they need you, expected to do it every day and then left to die. The way to deal with this is to not let it bother you. 

Small companies often offer a bigger variety of stuff, but they have their own problems as well. Power struggles between guys, back stabbing, less money, no insurance. Basically, the grass ain't greener over here, unless this is what your looking for. And that's the big issue -- finding what you like doing the most.

I'm still looking for that. :jester: Sometimes I think I should've stayed in the army. Or become a astronaut instead.


----------



## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I know what I am going to type is not reality…

In theory each apprentice has a book (not sure what it is in each province) that lists the knowledge, skills and attitudes that they are supposed to be deemed “competent” in before proceeding to the next level.

While clearly the employer has a responsibility to train you, you also have a responsibility to identify what training you need.

Now reality… When I went into trade school I was with a bunch of guys that were on the “Sky Dome” project; our cohort travelled through the classes together every year for 3 or 4 years depending on what program you were on. I can say with 100% certainly there were guys that left school that all they did for four years was core drill concrete, bend pipe, pull wire, install hangers, etc. Not one of them did all of these, they were all separate people… at the end of the day they could not wire a 3-way switch to save their soul, but left with the same ticket I had.

I think if the employer was more honest in their approach to training and education, this would be less of an issue; but like so many other things… it all comes down to the 
dollar…

Cheers
John


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Navyguy said:


> I know what I am going to type is not reality&#8230;
> 
> In theory each apprentice has a book (not sure what it is in each province) that lists the knowledge, skills and attitudes that they are supposed to be deemed &#8220;competent&#8221; in before proceeding to the next level.
> 
> ...


So I should go back to school to continue my trade, rather than end up like someone with a ticket but knows nothing? Money is an issue with me right now. It's a lot to give up, but in reality I don't see myself slugging away at insulation for 6 months when all I really want to do is electrical.


----------



## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

shockme123 said:


> So I should go back to school to continue my trade, rather than end up like someone with a ticket but knows nothing? Money is an issue with me right now. It's a lot to give up, but in reality I don't see myself slugging away at insulation for 6 months when all I really want to do is electrical.


No I don't think that is what I am saying, at least not directly. You should always seize opportunities to learn or try to make opportunities to learn.

I have trained a fairly large number of apprentices over the years, and I always try to take the time to see where they are lacking in experience. As an example I am not generally competitive in new home wiring, but I have taken jobs (at a loss) to use them as training for some of my guys otherwise they would never set foot in a new home.

I have sought out jobs where there was a lot of pipe bending so they can get experience in that, as well as teck90 and EP work. I do that for two things, one because I like the variety of jobs and two I do believe in the training and education aspects of our vocation.

All but a few of the guys move on as expected; I hope they appreciate the lessons learned, but you will generally not get that experience on a large project or doing industrial work.

I just recently had one of my new guys trim out a panel... it was painful to stand there and watch... and of course it took "way too long", but they have to learn. I also had them do them things like do demo work and insulate my new shop... not electrical work but by doing that it helps enforce the aspect that they are lucky to be doing electrical work and not general labour which is hard on the body...

In the end however we all need to make money, either by the hour or by the contract... have to put food on the table.

Cheers

John


----------

