# 3 way switch setup



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

electricnewf said:


> Trying to wire a switch setup exactly as shown, with power coming from the switch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you are feeding from a single pole switch .... then where is your neutral ?


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

The neutral would be bunched together with the others.


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Here how it's connected:


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

You have the power going to the wrong screw on your 3-way switch. It should be connected to the black "common" screw'

Not sure if this is actually a legal setup, by the way.



> 12-106 Multi- and single-conductor cables
> (1) Where multi-conductor cable is used, all conductors of a circuit shall be contained in the same
> multi-conductor cable except that, where it is necessary to run conductors in parallel due to the capacity
> of an ac circuit, additional cables shall be permitted to be used, provided that any one such cable
> ...


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

electricnewf said:


> Here how it's connected:


What isn't it doing ? Should work fine, unless your mixing common and travellers up at the 2nd three way


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Vintage Sounds said:


> You have the power going to the wrong screw on your 3-way switch. It should be connected to the black "common" screw' Not sure if this is actually a legal setup, by the way.


 Didn't notice the jumper off the single pole is in wrong location. As vintage said!!
Ya and would use first light as connection point then jump to second with 2 wire.


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Also I hope you aren't going to leave it bare like that. You should pigtail that feed and give each switch its own wire.


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

So right now there's already a wire connected to the common screw. So I should create a pigtail from the old switch and tie it to the common?


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

electricnewf said:


> So right now there's already a wire connected to the common screw. So I should create a pigtail from the old switch and tie it to the common?


No, you should reverse the connections of the two black wires on the 3-way switch. You have a traveler where the hot should be and a hot where the traveler should be. When I say pigtail I mean take the hot, strip it, take two scrap pieces of black wire about 7" long and splice the three together so that each switch can have its own individual hot. That way you won't have that hideous jumper going from the first switch to the 3 way.


----------



## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Re-visited the pics and answerred my own question...


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

The jumper from the sp switch needs to be insulated or someone is going to get hurt. That wire should go to the point wire of the 3 way. Actually it should feed the point wire of the remote 3 way-- I'll explain why later.

The point wire from the first 3 way should be the switch wire going to the light-- black wire not the white wire taped black-- at least in the NEC you cannot do that- CEC may allow it in which case ignore what I said except for the insulation on the hot conductor.

You have the basic concept just connected to the wrong terminals. The 3 way travelers should only be connected between the two 3 way switches on the non-point terminal. The feed will be connected to one 3 way point terminal and the switch leg to the other 3 way point terminals


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

So I re-wired it like this:


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

That's still hack and you still didn't fix the problem. Take the wire off the single pole switch altogether, splice two pieces of wire onto it, and connect one to the single pole and one to the black screw on the 3 way. You still need to remove the 14/3 black from the common screw and connect it to the traveler screw where you previously had the hot connected(the upper brass screw).


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

How does this look:


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Somebody is really struggling with a 3way,
Power source on black screw, blk/red from 3wire on brass screws


----------



## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

if no one else is going to ask I will


are you even an electrician?


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Second year apprentice but have been out of the field three years


----------



## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

the wire you pigtailed off the hot wires goes to the black screw on the 3 way switch


the red and black out of the 3 wire go to the brass screws on the 3 way switch

doesnt matter which brass screw

the white goes with the other whites (neutrals)

this is of course assuming your switch leg is on the other end of the 3 way


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Ok you got the pigtail right but you still haven't put the black wire from the 14/3 on the correct screw. Assuming you wired the rest of the setup properly it should work once you move that wire.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

electricnewf said:


> Second year apprentice but have been out of the field three years


What field, a cornfield? 


J/K :laughing:


----------



## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

Did ya get it working, or did you say  it and leave? :laughing:


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Where does that wire need to go?


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Like I said earlier


Vintage Sounds said:


> You still need to remove the 14/3 black from the common screw and connect it to the traveler screw where you previously had the hot connected(the upper brass screw).


----------



## Voltron (Sep 14, 2012)

electricnewf said:


> Where does that wire need to go?


Look at the drawing you posted it visually explains it. :001_huh:


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Ok, now I think he is just messing with us! 
I'm thinking 3hrs to wire a three way shows commitment!!


----------



## Pharon (Jan 20, 2014)

Black to brass will save your ass? I got nuthin.


----------



## Ninety (Jan 7, 2011)

Hmacanada said:


> Ok, now I think he is just messing with us!


Really.

How can anyone think this is for real?


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

electricnewf said:


> Where does that wire need to go?


Oh man just stop please


----------



## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

You should hire an electrician.


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

I think the Plumbing trade beckons ! :whistling2:


----------



## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

oldtimer said:


> I think the custodian trade beckons ! :whistling2:


Fify


----------



## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

....and they'll questions why the rest of Canada makes fun of the newfie's.

Way to perpetuate the stereotype.:thumbsup:


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

IslandGuy said:


> What field, a cornfield?
> 
> 
> J/K :laughing:


He's definitely outstanding in his field!!:thumbsup:


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I haven't been in this trade for a while so no, I don't know how to wire a 3 way switch setup from the get go. I have to learn all over again. I've seen a lot of posts on this thread from people making fun of me and that I shouldn't be doing the work if I'm asking questions on here. Guess what there are a lot of dumb electricians in this city charging $200 to change a lightbulb so I'm bringing in on myself to learn a little about wiring here and there so I don't need to call anyone about basic things. If you're going to make fun of me for every thing I ask for help on on this site then that's fine. All you are journey persons who've probably never had to deal with a nervous apprentice with low self esteem. That's what happened to be and my JM didn't do a think to teach me now to learn. I found myself just looking around for something to do which I did, but that didn't stop me from getting a lay off slip in the end. I'm sure I would've continued on with this trade if it wasn't that I had to be fast and I always seemed to be just keeping everyone behind.


----------



## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

electricnewf said:


> I haven't been in this trade for a while so no, I don't know how to wire a 3 way switch setup from the get go. I have to learn all over again. I've seen a lot of posts on this thread from people making fun of me and that I shouldn't be doing the work if I'm asking questions on here. Guess what there are a lot of dumb electricians in this city charging $200 to change a lightbulb so I'm bringing in on myself to learn a little about wiring here and there so I don't need to call anyone about basic things. If you're going to make fun of me for every thing I ask for help on on this site then that's fine. All you are journey persons who've probably never had to deal with a nervous apprentice with low self esteem. That's what happened to be and my JM didn't do a think to teach me now to learn. I found myself just looking around for something to do which I did, but that didn't stop me from getting a lay off slip in the end. I'm sure I would've continued on with this trade if it wasn't that I had to be fast and I always seemed to be just keeping everyone behind.


 
After 327 posts on ET you should be used to everybody making fun of everyone else. It's just kind of what we do here. :laughing:


Give it some time.....get some _practical_ help form a local electrician if you want to get back into the trade. This is not the sort of thing you want to learn on a trade forum......unless you like being taunted and teased mercilessly.


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Anyway back to the 3 way set up (if anyone still wants to help) the whole setup seems to be as shown in the diagram but now when I try to turn off the second switch the breaker trips. These two wires in the diagram are currently exposed and not hooked up to anything


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

Yeah, always thought about getting back into the trade, but now I'm single with a house and mortgage. Can't afford to get laid off at this point in my life.


----------



## nickjv (Jul 22, 2012)

Lol troll thread


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

no this is about the problem I was having earlier.


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Ok, listen if you really want someone to help you , post a good pic for each location so we can see where you went wrong


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

It's really dark out there right now so I'll have to post up pics tomorrow. What could be possible causes of the breaker tripping once the other switch is in the off position?


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Pinched wire under clamp possibly if you over tightened it. Mixed up neutral with that whit traveller. Didn't nick a wire while stripping it did ya. Bond/ground curled around and touching screw or something


----------



## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Hmacanada said:


> Ok, listen if you really want someone to help you , post a good pic for each location so we can see where you went wrong


When you do post those pics. Its going to be easier with more information. Pics of the octagon boxes....pics of the switch boxes......the more info and pics the better.

Also....don't forget, we're still going to make fun of you.:thumbsup:


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

I'll post pics tomorrow. Thanks guys.


----------



## nickjv (Jul 22, 2012)

Hire an electrician. If you can't troubleshoot with the pictures you posted then its a lost cause.


----------



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

I suspect you tied the white of the second 14/3 to the neutral when you were supposed to use it as a traveler. So now in one position it completes the circuit and in the other position it shorts hot to neutral. Tomorrow take some pictures and check the connection at the second octagon to your 3-wire heading to the second switch box.


----------



## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

or you could just go ask the guy at Home Depot.


----------



## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

electricnewf said:


> Second year apprentice but have been out of the field three years


Explain. You worked for two years and then took three off?


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

electricnewf said:


> It's really dark out there right now so I'll have to post up pics tomorrow. What could be possible causes of the breaker tripping once the other switch is in the off position?


Your camera doesn't have a flash?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


----------



## bml215 (Jul 2, 2012)

five.five-six said:


> Your camera doesn't have a flash?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


You don't have lights...?


Oh wait.... :laughing:


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

This is a good thread... It is helpful for an electrician to learn how to control loads with switches. :whistling2:


----------



## devosf (Jan 17, 2012)

electricnewf said:


> Here how it's connected:


All that bare copper is making me nervous.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

trollius minimus to the maximus. :brows:


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Where is your journeyman?


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

wendon said:


> Explain. You worked for two years and then took three off?


No, couldn't get any further work so I gave up on it. Could only remain poor for so long.


----------



## shockme123 (May 13, 2009)

nickjv said:


> Hire an electrician. If you can't troubleshoot with the pictures you posted then its a lost cause.


Thank you for the great words of encouragement.


----------



## Pharon (Jan 20, 2014)

Is this work you're doing in your own house?


----------



## MIKEFLASH (Apr 14, 2012)

Can I do dis ?


----------



## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

The switch on the left side of the picture appears to have the power/feed on the wrong screw, the power goes to the black screw on one switch and the switchleg goes to the black screw on the other switch.


----------



## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

There is more wrong in that picture then just the screw I mentioned in my last post so lets try this.

Lets start with the switch box on left, put power to black screw, put the black and red wires that go to the first light to brass screws and bare to green screw, run your 12/3 to the first light location and pay attention! take the white wire from the switch box providing power and make a pig-tail (tie the white coming from the source ((your first switch box)) to the white that goes to the next light, and have a tail to tie to the stainless/silver colored screw), Now take the black wire that goes to your next light and tie it to the brass screw. Still with me? OK, now for the black and red you ran up from the (source/power) switch box tie one to a black the other to a white (im not a fan of this and believe it is against code but for your sake ill continue) now we get to the second light box PAY BETTER ATTENTION! take the white you made a pigtail with in the first light box and tie it to the stainless/silver colored screw DONT GET AHEAD OF YOURSELF AND HOOK THE BLACK TO THE BRASS SCREW YET WAIT UNTIL I SAY SO! ok good now the black that is tied to the first light push it to the side for now we will come back to that. Now the romex that is tied to the red and black in the first light box grab those, tie the black to the black going to the 2nd switch, now grab the white and tie it to the white going to the 2nd switch, You still with me?? OK now you are left with a red from the 2nd switch tied to nothing and your black from the first light tied to nothing tie them together and make a pigtail tie that pigtial to the brass colored screw on the 2nd light. DONT RELAX JUST YET ITS NOT OVER AND DONT GET COMPLACENT COMPLACENCY KILLS!! Now go to your 2nd switch box, bare ground to green screw WHITE AND BLACK TO BRASS SCREWS AND RED TO THE BLACK SCREW. As a disclaimer: I dont switch white wires and I dont think its allowed (im pretty sure its not but no code book in front of me to say for sure). But if you wire it exactlly how I said you it will work.


----------



## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

why are you still trying to help a diyer, unlicensed, side work hack, who has less than 2 years experience in the trade?


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

drspec said:


> why are you still trying to help a diyer, unlicensed, side work hack, who has less than 2 years experience in the trade?


He ain't heavy, he's my brother!


----------



## Bugz11B (May 12, 2013)

drspec said:


> why are you still trying to help a diyer, unlicensed, side work hack, who has less than 2 years experience in the trade?


Because I dont know him to be that, I haven't read the thread, I only know the thread hasn't been closed due to him being a DIY'er. Some people just aren't taught $#!T so they never know, maybe thats the case but maybe not I dunno, I gave him a step by step so my help is done regardless.


----------



## NacBooster29 (Oct 25, 2010)

Is this real life....this is like a 3 second fix.


----------



## btharmy (Jan 17, 2009)

Cletus???????


----------



## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Did the switch get wired or not?


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Here's one I did. I used 14/4 between fixtures and to end switch.


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

I've never even saw 14/4 in nm before, guessing not approved here for some reason . Armoured cable yes , but don't really know why.
Maybe us Canadians get confused to easily.
Preeetty colours oooh!
Weird I know


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Hmacanada said:


> I've never even saw 14/4 in nm before, guessing not approved here for some reason . Armoured cable yes , but don't really know why.
> Maybe us Canadians get confused to easily.
> Preeetty colours oooh!
> Weird I know


14/2/2 can also be used.


----------



## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

Hmacanada said:


> I've never even saw 14/4 in nm before, guessing not approved here for some reason . Armoured cable yes , but don't really know why.
> Maybe us Canadians get confused to easily.
> Preeetty colours oooh!
> Weird I know


We can buy it here in Nova Scotia with no issue at all. Maybe its just you guys from Ontario that are a little slow.:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

Rollie73 said:


> We can buy it here in Nova Scotia with no issue at all. Maybe its just you guys from Ontario that are a little slow.:laughing::laughing:


REALLY!!!!
That's it , I'm outta here.
F,n ontarians !


----------



## mikeg_05 (Jan 1, 2009)

Look at you're diagram man, figure it out, or call someone


----------

