# Getting stiffed...



## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

First off I'm new and not sure if I placed this in the right section, but any guidance would help.

Placed an ad on craigslist for a journeyman wireman looking for work. Received a call from, we'll call him 'Chuck,' Chucked called and said he had a multitude of electrical working needing done and his former electrician 'took a leave of absence.' Sounded too good to be true so I took him up on it. Small residential add on. 9 recep, 2 3 ways and a couple outside lights. $35 an hour. He says you buy material and I'll reimburse you cash and you'll receive your pay the way any other employee receives pay, bank issued check. Well $108 and 12 hours into the job I call the guy and can't reach him. I have the homeowner try and call and can't reach him. I've tried a multitude of times to get ahold of this guy and he will not answer the phone. Homeowner says that he's already paid Chuck in full for the job, so I can't get material money back from him. Not sure what to do. Not sure if I'm jumping the gun. Should I wait till I get ahold of him before I buy more material and put more labor in this job or should I go ahead and finish and hope he gets ahold of me? Have yet to fill out any tax forms. There's some red flags in there but I'm just not sure if I'm worrying over nothing I know he's a busy guy but it's just not good business to ignore your employees. 

Any advice on what I should do would be appreciated.

The Dude


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Pack up your tools.. go home and never look back..

You got screwed.. he used you to put material into the job so he could hit the HO for more money..

People suck.. welcome to the forum..:thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TheDudeAbides said:


> First off I'm new and not sure if I placed this in the right section, but any guidance would help.
> 
> Placed an ad on craigslist for a journeyman wireman looking for work. Received a call from, we'll call him 'Chuck,' Chucked called and said he had a multitude of electrical working needing done and his former electrician 'took a leave of absence.' Sounded too good to be true so I took him up on it. Small residential add on. 9 recep, 2 3 ways and a couple outside lights. $35 an hour. He says you buy material and I'll reimburse you cash and you'll receive your pay the way any other employee receives pay, bank issued check. Well $108 and 12 hours into the job I call the guy and can't reach him. I have the homeowner try and call and can't reach him. I've tried a multitude of times to get ahold of this guy and he will not answer the phone. Homeowner says that he's already paid Chuck in full for the job, so I can't get material money back from him. Not sure what to do. Not sure if I'm jumping the gun. Should I wait till I get ahold of him before I buy more material and put more labor in this job or should I go ahead and finish and hope he gets ahold of me? Have yet to fill out any tax forms. There's some red flags in there but I'm just not sure if I'm worrying over nothing I know he's a busy guy but it's just not good business to ignore your employees.
> 
> ...


hello!

If you are working as an employee then you don't buy stock on your first day working do not do any more work for this guy till the paper work is done.


Welcome to the forum.:thumbup:


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## Oakey (Feb 16, 2009)

Chuck is paid in full and gone , happened to me on the first job I ever did in business. Sorry it happened to you too, It did help make me suspicious of GC's which is a good thing.


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

Well I was kind of reassured when the homeowner told me he's got permits and everything. Chucks the general contractor, I assume. I'm going to give him one last call tommorrow and I'm going to apologize to the homeowner, nice guy btw and say sayonara. Makes me mad that in times like these the mother ****er would stiff a guy trying to suport his family. No respect for the sparkies.

Thanks for the welcomes btw. Hope to make a nice stay here in the forums.


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

i'll throw this possibility into the mix. The HO might be talking about his own "homeowners" permits, so there could be no recourse against "chuck" who according to your post has been paid in full.

The fact that the HO has paid in full for a job barely roughed......well, your post title is about right.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

3xdad said:


> i'll throw this possibility into the mix. The HO might be talking about his own "homeowners" permits, so there could be no recourse against "chuck" who according to your post has been paid in full.
> 
> The fact that the HO has paid in full for a job barely roughed......well, your post title is about right.


Probably the HO scamming him.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Lien the property. Send the homeowner a 20 day preliminary notice, then explain to him that you can and WILL lien the property if you're not paid. HO pays you, then deals with the GC on their time. Even as an employee you have lien rights.


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## ilikepez (Mar 24, 2011)

That sucks. Maybe small claims court could help you out.


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## buzzbar (Mar 19, 2011)

The man peed on your rug. It's time to make a White Russian, and go bowlin'. 

But of course, that's just like, my opinion man.


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## Roger (Jul 7, 2007)

So the homeowner pulls permitts and has a group of unlicensed moonlighters do the work, does this sum up the situation?

If so, you are probably out of luck. 

If Chuck is a true GC you will have a chance.

Roger


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## Aegis (Mar 18, 2011)

Ill go the other way and say chuck is still around and a great guy just try phoning a few more times


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Put another add in craiglist that does not sound like you and see if Chuck calls. Now you work for the guy and don't know his last name or where he lives? I would be at his home at 6 am banging on the door perhaps with police in tow.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I wonder if "Chuck" really exists? Could it be that the homeowner had a friend set that up with you from a pre-paid cell phone? It would be a pretty good scam, if someone wanted to run one like that.

I know work might be scarce, but there were a multitude of red flags on this one. I don't know if it was desperation, naivety, or youth that caused you to jump on this deal, but you got your education quick.


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

buzzbar said:


> The man peed on your rug. It's time to make a White Russian, and go bowlin'.
> 
> But of course, that's just like, my opinion man.


Ohh the life lessons you could learn from that movie. Greatest movie of all time, IMO.


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

Roger said:


> So the homeowner pulls permitts and has a group of unlicensed moonlighters do the work, does this sum up the situation?
> 
> If so, you are probably out of luck.
> 
> ...


I, myself, am licensed. As far as anyone else, I'm not sure. 

The more I sit and think about it, it all stinks to high hell.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

TheDudeAbides said:


> I, myself, am licensed. As far as anyone else, I'm not sure.
> 
> The more I sit and think about it, it all stinks to high hell.


Why are you working for $35/hr? You can not make it at that. If you're going to be in business, learn what the costs are. $35/hr is below the cost to hire someone, why would you think you could make money at that?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Scam*

I got nailed by that one too. It's a pretty slick scam. Scam artist comes in town and sets up a temporary cell phone. He goes around and sells Bath, Kitchen, Basement remodels to H.O's for really cheap price. Preying on the cheap arses. And their are plenty of them. Then he collects his down payment and says his guys will be arriving shortly to start. Then he calls contractors and says he is new to town and works for big company breaking out in your area and he has ton's of work and needs help. He ask you your rate and gives you it no matter what you say. Then he say's he has one small job to just get started on. He say's he can wire your money straight into account when your done. And there you go. It's a great scam. I lost 5 hrs and $ 200 material, but, it turns out the H.O (which got scammed too) felt bad and paid me anyhow. I worked for him after that to finish the job. The guy dissapears to another city and does it all over again. I'm guessing he is only in town 1 or 2 weeks then moves on.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

backstay said:


> Why are you working for $35/hr? You can not make it at that. If you're going to be in business, learn what the costs are. $35/hr is below the cost to hire someone, why would you think you could make money at that?


I OP is not a contractor. He was hired on as an employee. The OP said he has a license. Maybe a journeyman license or drivers license.


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

backstay said:


> Why are you working for $35/hr? You can not make it at that. If you're going to be in business, learn what the costs are. $35/hr is below the cost to hire someone, why would you think you could make money at that?


He's a working journeyman electrician.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Why don't you post chucks number? I'm sure all the creative minds here could figure out a way to track him down.

This pisses me off....


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

B W E said:


> Why don't you post chucks number? I'm sure all the creative minds here could figure out a way to track him down.
> 
> This pisses me off....


Just "Don't" send Chuck a "Fax" to his cell 
from the local gas station at 1am. 
He will not get a good nights rest.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

B W E said:


> Why don't you post chucks number? I'm sure all the creative minds here could figure out a way to track him down.
> 
> This pisses me off....


We need Chucks #

Hop on this board, 

http://www.4chan.org/

they get their teeth into things like this every so often

or,

http://www.Reddit.com likes these too. I have seen them gather incredible amounts of information from very little data.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

If you pm me chucks number I will get you paid. I go crazy with this stuff. I will find him, everything about him, his family, and make him afraid to not pay you.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Current said:


> He's a working journeyman electrician.


When does a JW have to buy material for the job he's working on? I've worked for a few places in the last 25 years and the only time I have bought material for a job was when I became the EC.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

jrannis said:


> We need Chucks #
> 
> Hop on this board,
> 
> ...


/b/ is not your personal army.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

50% deposit signed contract with a notice sent to the homeowner. GC skips town the HO is on the hook. I get paid every time not sometimes I don't need practice.


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

backstay said:


> Why are you working for $35/hr? You can not make it at that. If you're going to be in business, learn what the costs are. $35/hr is below the cost to hire someone, why would you think you could make money at that?


Not in business for myself. I have a day job that pays the bills and just doing this on the side as a 'part time' job to put food on the table.


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

knowshorts said:


> I OP is not a contractor. He was hired on as an employee. The OP said he has a license. Maybe a journeyman license or drivers license.


BOTH! :thumbsup:


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

B W E said:


> Why don't you post chucks number? I'm sure all the creative minds here could figure out a way to track him down.
> 
> This pisses me off....



Tempting...


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

UPDATE btw,

Called him at 7 this morning. SURPRISE he answers. Talk to him about reimbursement and how I'm not paying for material and he would have to purchase it, seeing how he was paid in full from the HO in the first place. So he says thats ok call me back at at 4:00 and I'll meet you at the job. Called him 3 times. 4:00, 4:13 and finally at 4:27. You guessed it...No answer.

That explains why I'm sitting here with 3 beers under my belt on the computer instead of drilling holes in 2x4's.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

TheDudeAbides said:


> UPDATE btw,
> 
> Called him at 7 this morning. SURPRISE he answers. Talk to him about reimbursement and how I'm not paying for material and he would have to purchase it, seeing how he was paid in full from the HO in the first place. So he says thats ok call me back at at 4:00 and I'll meet you at the job. Called him 3 times. 4:00, 4:13 and finally at 4:27. You guessed it...No answer.
> 
> That explains why I'm sitting here with 3 beers under my belt on the computer instead of drilling holes in 2x4's.


Gimme his f'ing number dude! I'm mad for you, and everyone's paid me!!

Within 20 minutes I'll know everything about him. His address, family member's names, etc. He'll think Im more crazy than he is douche bag, and he'll pay you.


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> I wonder if "Chuck" really exists? Could it be that the homeowner had a friend set that up with you from a pre-paid cell phone? It would be a pretty good scam, if someone wanted to run one like that.
> 
> I know work might be scarce, but there were a multitude of red flags on this one. I don't know if it was desperation, naivety, or youth that caused you to jump on this deal, but you got your education quick.



Thought of that. Business licenses are public record. Googled it, Buisness name and address. Seems legit, until you get to the part about him ignoring his employees and not paying them.


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## Current (Jul 4, 2011)

TheDudeAbides said:


> Thought of that. Business licenses are public record. Googled it, Buisness name and address. Seems legit, until you get to the part about him ignoring *his employees* and not paying them.


You're not his employee, you never signed up with his company and filled out the proper paperwork.


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## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

*lein the job*. :yes: it is something you can do yourself usually and the owner has to pay again. it is his fault if he paid in advance and did not get a lein release. it is just business. let the owner know what you intend to do and he may just pay you before you have to file the lein. good luck do not do any more work without cash in hand. If he wants you to finish, give him the price and do the work after the cash is in hand. don't get screwed twice on the same job. :no:


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

Current said:


> You're not his employee, you never signed up with his company and filled out the proper paperwork.


Yeap that is true, but that doesn't make it right.


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

stars13bars2 said:


> *lein the job*. :yes: it is something you can do yourself usually and the owner has to pay again. it is his fault if he paid in advance and did not get a lein release. it is just business. let the owner know what you intend to do and he may just pay you before you have to file the lein. good luck do not do any more work without cash in hand. If he wants you to finish, give him the price and do the work after the cash is in hand. don't get screwed twice on the same job. :no:


You live and learn...

I've definitely learned.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

TheDudeAbides said:


> Thought of that. Business licenses are public record. Googled it, Buisness name and address. Seems legit, until you get to the part about him ignoring his employees and not paying them.


 *Call the EDD, and report him *



stars13bars2 said:


> *lein the job*. :yes: it is something you can do yourself usually and the owner has to pay again. it is his fault if he paid in advance and did not get a lein release. it is just business. let the owner know what you intend to do and he may just pay you before you have to file the lein. good luck do not do any more work without cash in hand. If he wants you to finish, give him the price and do the work after the cash is in hand. don't get screwed twice on the same job. :no:


*And follow this guys advise- It's the home owners problem.*


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

So, did you get paid?


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

stars13bars2 said:


> *lein the job*. :yes: it is something you can do yourself usually and the owner has to pay again. it is his fault if he paid in advance and did not get a lein release. it is just business. let the owner know what you intend to do and he may just pay you before you have to file the lein. good luck do not do any more work without cash in hand. If he wants you to finish, give him the price and do the work after the cash is in hand. don't get screwed twice on the same job. :no:


He can't lien the job.
No contractors license, no contract, no permit, no inspection, no taxes, no insurance.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

tkb said:


> He can't lien the job.
> No contractors license, no contract, no permit, no inspection, no taxes, no insurance.


I don't know about MA, but in CA anyone can lien the property. From the contractor, the employees, and the vendors. That is why a HO get lien releases.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

knowshorts said:


> I don't know about MA, but in CA anyone can lien the property. From the contractor, the employees, and the vendors. That is why a HO get lien releases.


A lot of states also have notification laws that require a sub notify a homeowner BEFORE work that they are a subcontractor and this is your rights etc etc blah blah

If you don't notify the homeowner correctly it greatly reduces your chances. 

*This is a good reference. *


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

gold said:


> This is a good reference.


No it's not, really. It's got some incorrect information so I wouldn't consider it a good reference. It says in California you have to send your preliminary notice within 10 days. It's actually 20. That's why it's called a "20-day Preliminary Notice."


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

B W E said:


> No it's not, really. It's got some incorrect information so I wouldn't consider it a good reference. It says in California you have to send your preliminary notice within 10 days. It's actually 20. That's why it's called a "20-day Preliminary Notice."



*This is a BAD EVIL UGLY reference. *


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## stars13bars2 (Jun 1, 2009)

tkb said:


> He can't lien the job.
> No contractors license, no contract, no permit, no inspection, no taxes, no insurance.


these may be reasons that you can't file a lien, but in the OP's state of TN, anyone who supplies labor or material may file a lien. 

They also have 90 days from completion of work to file. 

According to the OP's post he was to be paid by check like all other employees. I think this would qualify him as an employee of the general and as such no license, permit, inspection, taxes or insurance would ne required of him. 

Tennessee lien law could easily be found on the internet, before you make any statement about it. :whistling2:


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

TheDudeAbides said:


> First off I'm new and not sure if I placed this in the right section, but any guidance would help.
> 
> Placed an ad on craigslist for a journeyman wireman looking for work. Received a call from, we'll call him 'Chuck,' Chucked called and said he had a multitude of electrical working needing done and his former electrician 'took a leave of absence.' Sounded too good to be true so I took him up on it. Small residential add on. 9 recep, 2 3 ways and a couple outside lights. $35 an hour. He says you buy material and I'll reimburse you cash and you'll receive your pay the way any other employee receives pay, bank issued check. Well $108 and 12 hours into the job I call the guy and can't reach him. I have the homeowner try and call and can't reach him. I've tried a multitude of times to get ahold of this guy and he will not answer the phone. Homeowner says that he's already paid Chuck in full for the job, so I can't get material money back from him. Not sure what to do. Not sure if I'm jumping the gun. Should I wait till I get ahold of him before I buy more material and put more labor in this job or should I go ahead and finish and hope he gets ahold of me? Have yet to fill out any tax forms. There's some red flags in there but I'm just not sure if I'm worrying over nothing I know he's a busy guy but it's just not good business to ignore your employees.
> 
> ...


Contract , contract , contract!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also go take your materials back. The you've only wasted TIME ,can't get that back. 

If the HO gets really upset you've done your job. If the HO calls the police just
Explain the issue FRAUD is a crime.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

jhall.sparky said:


> Contract , contract , contract!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Also go take your materials back. The you've only wasted TIME ,can't get that back.
> 
> ...


Removing material from the job could be considered theft.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

gold said:


> Removing material from the job could be considered theft.


I would WANT him to call the police cause then the HO could explain to the police ,
Why he (THE HO) shouldn't be charged with breech of trust, FRAUD,and anything else 
The authorities find relevant. 
Also a LIEN is ONLY GOOD if the HO sells , civil court would cost to much. 


He should go and get wtf is his no holes barred. Point


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

Just going to mark this off as a lesson learned. A CHEAP lesson learned. Would lose more going to court, after court costs and a lawyer. I WILL however bash, slander, and slam this POS out of business. I know quite a few people in the business including the local inspector. I'll get my retribution one way or another. Thanks for all the advice, replies, and warm welcomes.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

knowshorts said:


> I don't know about MA, but in CA anyone can lien the property. From the contractor, the employees, and the vendors. That is why a HO get lien releases.


The problem is the OP has no paper trail , no contract no signed PO's ,nothing. 

He's up " tough luck creek" with no contract how is he going to get a lien?

I gave him some good advice in my previous post SO..........

g2:


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

TheDudeAbides said:


> Just going to mark this off as a lesson learned. A CHEAP lesson learned. Would lose more going to court, after court costs and a lawyer. I WILL however bash, slander, and slam this POS out of business. I know quite a few people in the business including the local inspector. I'll get my retribution one way or another. Thanks for all the advice, replies, and warm welcomes.


A penny owed is a penny owed. 
I would be RELENTLESS about this if you let him do it, well, your playing his game. 
I would definitely explain to the HO that said GC is screwing you. Flex a little muscle 
But GET YOUR MONEY!! If you lose $500 a year for ten years that's $5000. 
Take that $5000 put it in the bank for 8 years add intrest and you just bought a 
Car with that SMALL loss. 
Contracting is a game the score card values MONEY....... Never ever ever LOSE MONEY ?

J. Hall


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

jhall.sparky said:


> The problem is the OP has no paper trail , no contract no signed PO's ,nothing.


The OP was an employee. What kind of paper trail do you expect him have?



> I gave him some good advice in my previous post SO..........


You mean about stealing?

The OP only has a few legal options.
He can walk away, with a lesson learned, like it appears he is doing.
He can lien the property.
He can sue the EC in small claims court.
He can keep pestering the EC until he changes his phone number.
He can talk to the HO and give his sob story and see if the HO will throw him some money.
He can file a claim with the EC bonding agent.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Eh, the guy has been offered tons
Of advice and help, and politely refused it all. He's kissed his money goodbye and wants to move on, so let him.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

knowshorts said:


> The OP was an employee. What kind of paper trail do you expect him have?
> 
> You mean about stealing?
> 
> ...


OH BEE QUIET , how do you steal what you OWN?
He doesn't need to let the materials stay ....... And SOB story? Really who says "CHUCK" and said "HO" aren't scamming the guy?

All he needs to do is go there prepared to get paid or get out. 

So PLEASE explain how its STEALING? And that employee crap? What if he would have gotten hurt? If I give a price HOURLY or in whole that's contracting. Come on are you telling me 
YOU would let these guys snowball YOU? WOW!


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

jhall.sparky said:


> OH BEE QUIET , how do you steal what you OWN?
> He doesn't need to let the materials stay ....... And SOB story? Really who says "CHUCK" and said "HO" aren't scamming the guy?
> 
> All he needs to do is go there prepared to get paid or get out.
> ...


Once it's installed on a HO's property, it is theirs, whether it has been paid for or not.

Re-read the OP posts. He was hired on as an *employee* of Chucks Electric. The OP is not a contractor. If the OP got hurt, he would go to the doctor and get fixed. The bill would be forwarded to Chucks Electric's WC policy. If Chuck doesn't have WC, then the state would go after him. I wouldn't let Chuck snowball me, I gave the OP 5 legal ways to get his money.


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

jhall.sparky said:


> OH BEE QUIET , how do you steal what you OWN?
> He doesn't need to let the materials stay ....... And SOB story? Really who says "CHUCK" and said "HO" aren't scamming the guy?
> 
> All he needs to do is go there prepared to get paid or get out.
> ...


Yeah great advice except for the only one going to jail would be the OP for theft. you cannot remove material once installed paid for or not so stop telling the op to commit a felony it is stupid and ignorant to urge him to commit a crime.

OP whenever I work for someone new I get all there info address, phone everything. I also use my phone to take their pic and their car and plate. Until I get to know them and know they will honor their contracts and pay me. Don't just trust a stranger to be honest. The world doesn't work that way and you need to protect yourself by being smart.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

I'd head over to that house and cut all the wires flush with the boxes. Damage it all so it can't be reused. I don't care if the home owner wasn't involved, he probably was.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Has the homeowner paid Chuck? If not explain to the homeowner that you want to be paid by him. If he agrees get paid in full for the work done so far. If not I'd just pack it in and hound Chuck to the ends of the earth for your money.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

nitro71 said:


> Has the homeowner paid Chuck? If not explain to the homeowner that you want to be paid by him. If he agrees get paid in full for the work done so far. If not I'd just pack it in and hound Chuck to the ends of the earth for your money.


He isn't interested in getting paid. Willing to chalk it up as a "learning experience."


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

B W E said:


> He isn't interested in getting paid. Willing to chalk it up as a "learning experience."


You his lawyer or something?


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

Talked to my inspector today. Never even heard of the guy. Never even seen a permit with his name on it. He said he'd keep an eye out for him. By legal rights he can't divulge information but he does not have to pass any inspections for the guy if he sees it "unfit and unsafe." :thumbup:

That's enough muscle flexing for me.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

jza said:


> You his lawyer or something?


Nope, just going by what he said. You got something against reading?


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## 3xdad (Jan 25, 2011)

TheDudeAbides said:


> Talked to my inspector today. By legal rights he can't divulge information but he does not have to pass any inspections for the guy if he sees it "unfit and unsafe." :thumbup:


Gee, thanks Mr. inspector. That can be said for every contractor out there.

BTW Dude, i'm curious. The HO is out a lot more dough than you. Has he said if anything that he is going to do? You never know, this guy might seek out to nail Chuck.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
unless he's in on it.:whistling2:


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## TheDudeAbides (Jul 20, 2011)

3xdad said:


> Gee, thanks Mr. inspector. That can be said for every contractor out there.
> 
> BTW Dude, i'm curious. The HO is out a lot more dough than you. Has he said if anything that he is going to do? You never know, this guy might seek out to nail Chuck.
> .
> ...


Talked to the HO and he's already paid the contractor in full and said the subs are still coming out and working. Chances are he's going to get his work done. Which is good for him because he really was a genuine guy....






Unless he was in on it...:glare:


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