# My own private Idaho......



## Shockdoc

Classic DIY installs. The 123 book is probably on a shelf somewhere.


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## B4T

Carlon blue boxes at all different heights.. who would of guessed.. :laughing:


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## guest

Continuing the "Wall of Shame": 


The ribbon of shame: 










Is that what I think it is? 










Yep, open splice _*pinched*_ between the sheetrock and the stud!!:









A closer look:









Now, the front wall of the same room (where a roll-up garage door used to be) also yielded up a few surprises: 

Top switch controlled a fan that was in the wall, it was gone and the bare wires flying in the breeze, bottom two switches for lighting, again with missing connectors and an arc burn on the fan switch: 









And what hack would be complete without the required buried j-box? : 










Looking to the outside, the window was replaced, the door opening on the right sealed off and you can see where the fan was: 










Oops, someone f**ked up and did this one right: 










More fun to follow after my dinner.


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## erics37

Yet somehow the house is still standing.


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## Jlarson

Hack work out in the sticks.

Shocking... :no: :laughing:


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## guest

erics37 said:


> Yet somehow the house is still standing.


Which is even more amazing when there were structural issues with that wall too....there are three ceiling beams that were supposed to be supported by vertical posts of at least 4x6 dimensions...one was close to 4x6 (but the three studs used were notched badly like in the pic above), one was sort of 4x4 and the third had no support at all..they cut it out to "frame" in a wall-mounted heater!



Jlarson said:


> Hack work out in the sticks.
> 
> Shocking... :no: :laughing:


True that. 

Moving on above the grid ceiling in the same space we find: 


No cover and overstuffed:










Are grey nuts listed for 3 #14's? : 










I guess this can be considered accessible since it wasn't secured to anything right? : 









All the fixtures were wired just like this: 









Oh, and this little gem, a 10/2 run through the window frame, along the exterior wall to the kitchen. Feeding the 50 amp range receptacle and on a 60 amp DP breaker:


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## HARRY304E

Nice butcher work...:laughing::thumbup:


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## JohnR

Can't be ALL bad, the place never burned down.


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## guest

Now, as for the bathroom (there were more buried j-boxes in the ceiling space in here but I didn't get pics before I demo'ed them) : 


Not too bad considering how the rest of the house is: 









We don't need no stinkin GFCI: 










The bathroom light: 










And inside the wall below the medicine cabinet: 










And how the old timer's did grounding: 










Oh, and BTW, see that j-box behind the drain for the lav? It was facing into the living room, _*behind*_ the brick wall for the wood stove. The ultimate buried receptacle. I just cut the NM and left it in place. 

Now this gem fed a few things, one was a flying splice to the old electric water heater (my new one is propane) and a Zinsco 2-space subpanel mounted in the kitchen, where the old original wiring was tied in...one circuit fed with a Zinsco 30 amp breaker and the rest just twisted around the end of the SER cable's one hot and neutral...all on a 60 amp DP breaker. :










The unpainted spot on the right must have been where the old fuse box was located...the feeder coming in on the left is fed from a conduit running to the new panel. Notice anything wrong with the feeder wire itself? :whistling2:

As for my new wiring, I decided to start a thread in the Residential forum and will put up only the violation pics in this thread.


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## mr hands

I think the diesel equipment mechanic from the quarry used to live in your new house. :laughing:


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## Shockdoc

That gal used for potable water rates up there with the wiring


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## chicken steve

Looks like it's a bit beyond a tradesman MX.....








:whistling2:~CS~


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## wildleg

*This old shack*

I must have missed the thread about you inheriting a crack house. 

I guess I better give you my standard form-reply:

It looks like your remodeling work is doing wonders for the house. Keep up the good work. It's a shame you couldn't save that wonderful wallpaper. Can't wait to see the final pics. Is that a piece of artistic glass in your garden, or some type of bong ?


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## ampman

someone was proud of that at one time


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## MHElectric

Its only funny because we know you bought the place and plan on remodeling it.

Its irritating and stupid when its a customer wanting you to 'just add a couple lights and plugs' on a mess like this, and they are not getting through their head what a hacked up soup-sandwich they've got on their hands. And of course, you are the scam artist for insisting that it cant be done on the budget they've given you and "its always worked!! Whats the problem?".


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## MTW

B4T said:


> Carlon blue boxes at all different heights.. who would of guessed.. :laughing:


I guess you missed all the hack work in metal boxes.


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## MTW

A few questions, observations, and comments.

This thread is full of drama, as usual.

I hope you got a good deal on this place.

How close is Home Depot? 

Is this a summer retreat or something like that? Place to retire?


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## BuzzKill

JohnR said:


> Can't be ALL bad, the place never burned down.


Yeah really, quit being such a drama queen! :laughing:


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## BuzzKill

That's awesome stuff...I love running into that type of....hackism.


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## guest

BuzzKill said:


> That's awesome stuff...I love running into that type of....hackism.


When I am *getting paid* to repair it, hell yeah it's great.

When I *have to pay* to repair it, it sucks big time. :laughing:

I had planned on a whole-house rewire and re-plumbing anyways, so in this case, it isn't a big deal in the end.

Stuff like this amazes me though...it has worked for years in the condition it is in...but that still doesn't make it right..or safe. 

And I found a place there that pays pretty good for wire scrap, so I'll recoup some of the cost of the rewiring as well. :thumbup:


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## chicken steve

A few hand hewn beams, and i wouldn't be able to tell it from a Vermont home MX......~CS~


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## Jlarson

MTW said:


> How close is Home Depot?


:laughing:

Important detail


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## dronai

Now you just need to find some desert women, who doesn't mind the name of your town. :laughing: and Don't drink the local ground water.


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## guest

MTW said:


> A few questions, observations, and comments.
> 
> This thread is full of drama, as usual. You really need to get some new material dude.
> 
> I hope you got a good deal on this place. Yes I did.
> 
> How close is Home Depot? 45 miles.
> 
> Is this a summer retreat or something like that? Nope. Place to retire? Yep.





Jlarson said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Important detail


 Yep as each trip for something forgotten costs about $15 in gas.



dronai said:


> Now you just need to find some desert women, who doesn't mind the name of your town. :laughing: and Don't drink the local ground water.


The one "town skank" who's willing to sleep with anything with a p***s is too ugly for words.  And I am at the stage that I don't need a woman or mate anymore. 

And the water there is surprisingly good....they have a municipal system (the well is literally next to my property), the ground is mainly lava flow, and the water table is over 800 feet deep. The water is less hard than the crap here in Hawthorne.

I did talk to the local well drilling company..because the water table is so deep there, if I were to drill my own well it would cost over $25,000 just for the drilling...and for house water the pump size would be 7.5hp minimum. (For irrigation it would be a 10hp+ pump and I'd need a three-phase service most likely.) 

But, water is not a problem..it is flat rate of $37 a month per meter, "unlimited" usage. I have two meters, one for the house and the other is for the outbuilding (which may not be hooked to the building yet) ..so I am going to set frost-proof yard hydrants off of that meter for now.


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## mr hands

So are you the new town electrician or what???

P.S. Don't be badmouthing the town skank. Hoes make the best female friends. Besides, if I remembers right, you were looking for brokeback mountain anyways. :blink:


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> You really need to get some new material dude.


Why should I do that when you provide plenty of good material? :laughing:


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## guest

MTW said:


> Why should I do that when you provide plenty of good material? :laughing:


At least mine is different most of the time. :whistling2:


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> At least mine is different most of the time. :whistling2:


Uh huh..sure it is. :laughing::no:


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## guest

Bite me flannel boy. :001_tongue::laughing:

Anyway, back on topic, on my next trip up I'll get more pics from the kitchen and the opposite wall to the "wall of shame". Also show the unique way they did lights in the living room and vestibule above the t-bar ceiling. :laughing:


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> Bite me flannel boy. :001_tongue::laughing:
> 
> Anyway, back on topic, on my next trip up I'll get more pics from the kitchen and the opposite wall to the "wall of shame". Also show the unique way they did lights in the living room and vestibule above the t-bar ceiling. :laughing:


I can't wait. :no: :sleep1:


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## guest

Too bad I can't place you on a list so that you can never respond to any threads or replies I post....:whistling2::laughing:


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> Too bad I can't place you on a list so that you can never respond to any threads or replies I post....:whistling2::laughing:


You'd like that. :whistling2:

All kidding aside, any pics of the new work yet?


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## guest

MTW said:


> You'd like that. :whistling2: Yes I would.
> 
> All kidding aside, any pics of the new work yet?


I have a few pics of the new work in the bathroom (only thing I fixed so far) but I have been too lazy to start that thread yet. When I do I will link to it here.


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> I have a few pics of the new work in the bathroom (only thing I fixed so far) but I have been too lazy to start that thread yet. When I do I will link to it here.


Did you use Carlon boxes? :whistling2:


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## Shockdoc

MTW said:


> Did you use Carlon boxes? :whistling2:


Should use 5" deep boxes with mud rings, something only an arse like you would do.


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## guest

MTW said:


> Did you use Carlon boxes? :whistling2:


Wait and see.....:whistling2::laughing:

Here's the new thread: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f29/my-own-private-idaho-deaux-60741/


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## guest

A few more original hack pics from the living room...

A typical recpt.: (With my helper Turbo keeping an eye (and paw) on things...) 










Note the shallow box..there is only 1.5 inches depth in this wall (furred out sheetrock and the tacky 70's paneling over cinderblock walls.) 

And the light switches at the front door:

(This one has a hole punched in the cinderblock behind it so a full depth box was used. Note the missing clamps and the wire sheath was 3 inches back inside the wall.) 











Plan for the living room recpts is to use shallow 4s boxes and mud rings so I won't have to punch out the block wall and still have room to put 2 #12's into the boxes. 

The light switches are being replaced with LV AMX controls.


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## BBQ

mxslick said:


>


Cool rug and paneling. :jester:


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> Plan for the living room recpts is to use shallow 4s boxes and mud rings so I won't have to punch out the block wall and still have room to put 2 #12's into the boxes.


12/2 for a living room.


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## guest

MTW said:


> 12/2 for a living room.


Yes 12/2 for a living room. I use 20 amps on ALL general purpose receptacle circuits except for the obvious things like ranges, clothes dryers, and baseboard heaters. 

For living rooms, etc. think about it....a common vacuum nowadays pulls 12-13 amps so it doesn't take much of a load in addition to trip a 15 amp circuit. 

Besides, the cost difference between the 12/2 and 14/2 in the quantity used is minimal. 

All of my lighting circuits are 15amp and wired 14/2.


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> Yes 12/2 for a living room. I use 20 amps on ALL general purpose receptacle circuits except for the obvious things like ranges, clothes dryers, and baseboard heaters.
> 
> For living rooms, etc. think about it....a common vacuum nowadays pulls 12-13 amps so it doesn't take much of a load in addition to trip a 15 amp circuit.
> 
> Besides, the cost difference between the 12/2 and 14/2 in the quantity used is minimal.
> 
> All of my lighting circuits are 15amp and wired 14/2.


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## guest

Today I removed all of the drop ceiling tiles and grid in the living room and bedroom...it's all gone to the dump finally!! 

Here's how the lighting was done:

Tie-in in the bedroom section:










How the bedroom light was mounted: (The NM running off to the left goes to the switch by the door for the outside light, and the NM and extension cord are power for the living room baseboard and "recepts" respectively.)









Living room light before the tile was removed:










Wanna bet there is no j-box behind that?: (I will be pulling all of these down soon and will get pics of what's behind later)









And WTF is the huge loop of NM all about?:










Note the neat entry into the fixture (and the finish nail NM staples): 










This needs no explanation: (The yellow NM is the temp to the baseboard heater in the living room.)










Why the drop ceiling was put up is a mystery...the original ceiling is in very good condition, just needs repainting really. 

I will be putting Juno 4" IC new construction recessed lighting in the living room and bedroom. Unfortunately neither Juno nor anyone else seems to make 4" (or 5") *IC rated remodel* cans that are shallow enough. There is NO attic space, only standard 2x6 ceiling joists so I have just over 5.5" of free space above the ceiling. So the new construction cans are how it's gonna be done. Lots of nice square holes into that ceiling, but that will make fishing the wire in easier...and I'm gonna have someone else patch the ceilings as I suck at drywall work.


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## papaotis

from those pics that suspended ceiling really doesnt make sense.


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## Bkessler

It looks like a Orange County handyman drove to Idaho and wired your new house.


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## daks

Lol the loop was probably there because they were just cobbling together old scrap wire and never bothered to cut it to length. 

Few roof leaks in that place and :whistling2:.


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## dspiffy

Installed the drop ceiling when there was no reason to . . . but took the time to "frame out" that light fixture?!

I wonder if they put the drop ceiling up simply to cover the wiring, as they didnt know how to fish above the drywall.


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## guest

daks said:


> Lol the loop was probably there because they were just cobbling together old scrap wire and never bothered to cut it to length.
> 
> Few roof leaks in that place and :whistling2:.


Thankfully the metal roof is relatively new and doesn't leak anywhere except at the stack for the wood stove. 

They had some odd habits on wiring..most of the wire in the "blue room" at the start of the thread is all 10/2......and on 20 amp breakers. It is very possible that you;re right and this was all done with scrap from somewhere..but the wire is all in good condition.


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## Maximumbob

What's the house and lot size? Exterior pics?

Thanks


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## 360max

what....................................it works


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## drspec

http://www.amazon.com/Juno-Lighting-IC25R-Incandescent-Universal/dp/B004AHLOA4/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1390527753&sr=8-12&keywords=4+inch+shallow+remodel+cans

these say theyre IC rated and are 5.75" for use in 2x6 construction


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## drspec

here's another one 

http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/l3r.html#.UuHG_Mso6P8

https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...ithonia-Lighting/L3R/product.aspx?zpid=361021

2 minutes on google


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## MTW

drspec said:


> here's another one
> 
> http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/l3r.html#.UuHG_Mso6P8
> 
> https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...ithonia-Lighting/L3R/product.aspx?zpid=361021
> 
> 2 minutes on google


The guy's not even an electrician. Should we be surprised? :no:


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## drspec

MTW said:


> The guy's not even an electrician. Should we be surprised? :no:


 are there any electricians on this site?


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## MTW

drspec said:


> are there any electricians on this site?


I haven't found one yet. :whistling2:


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## Next72969

drspec said:


> are there any electricians on this site?


 last time i checked, yes.


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## MTW

Bkessler said:


> It looks like a Orange County handyman drove to Idaho and wired your new house.


"Electricista. Tengo alambre 14/2 y cajas azul de Carlon. $20/hora."


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## ponyboy

Azul de carlon. Lol


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## guest

Maximumbob said:


> What's the house and lot size? Exterior pics?
> 
> Thanks


1225sq ft house, I have 3/4 acre total most of it on one block and the rest on a 75x125 lot across the alley behind the house. 

I won't be doing many (if any) exterior pics. 



360max said:


> what....................................it works


Actually most of it didn't. 



drspec said:


> here's another one
> 
> http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/l3r.html#.UuHG_Mso6P8
> 
> https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...ithonia-Lighting/L3R/product.aspx?zpid=361021
> 
> 2 minutes on google


Thanks but I despise Lithonia. 




drspec said:


> Amazon
> 
> these say theyre IC rated and are 5.75" for use in 2x6 construction


Those would work, but now I am doing 4" throughout...and they cost too much anyways. That said, thanks for the link I will keep them in mind for any future jobs!



MTW said:


> The guy's not even an electrician. Should we be surprised? :no:


Neither are you...:whistling2::tt2::laughing:



drspec said:


> are there any electricians on this site?


Sometimes I wonder...:laughing:


Oh, and yes I deleted some posts...keep reasonably on topic guys please.


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## Maximumbob

mxslick said:


> 1225sq ft house, I have 3/4 acre total most of it on one block and the rest on a 75x125 lot across the alley behind the house.
> 
> I won't be doing many (if any) exterior pics.


I've got my bug out bag in the car, I just wanted to be able to recognize the place if I had to get out of NJ:laughing:


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## dspiffy

Reminds me of a project I once did . . .

One of our buildings rents to a salon. Prior to us buying the building, the space that became the salon was a radio station and some sort of offices. Apparently, our rental agreement with the salon stipulated that they would do the conversion, not us.

Well the salon owners (brother and sister) had a cousin from out of state who was "a carpenter, and a plumber, and an electrician" . . . while he was converting the space into a salon, we were converting the space next door into something else.

He spent most of his time borrowing our tools and criticizing our work, especially how long it was taking us.

Halfway through the conversion he just up and disappeared.

His electrical work was a rats nest of exposed romex and metal boxes without clamps. After looking at it for a few weeks and deciding I couldnt take it, I offered to finish the project myself if they paid for materials. His work was even worse than it looked. He would use two pieces of romex for each circuit or switch leg-- one for the hot, one for the neutral. Circuits from different breakers were tied together. Outlet boxes were drywalled over. He had taken recessed troffer fluorescent lights and drywall screwed them to the unfinished ceiling.

Stripped everything bare to the panel, re-ran everything in EMT and BX, replaced the troffers with striplights with reflectors and track lighting, and prayed I didnt overlook any of his mistakes.

Now that I type this all out, it was way worse than what you've got there. Nevermind.


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## 8V71

mxslick said:


> 1225sq ft house, I have 3/4 acre total most of it on one block and the rest on a 75x125 lot across the alley behind the house.


Alley??? Dude....I thought you moved to a large chunk of land in the sticks for dirt biking bliss. :001_huh:

What made you pick this one place all the way from Cali?


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## 8V71

mxslick said:


> Oh, and yes I deleted some posts...keep reasonably on topic guys please.


Seriously???? In your own thread???? Do you realize how short and boring threads would be if we stayed on topic? :laughing:

I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling here.


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## guest

8V71 said:


> Seriously???? In your own thread???? Do you realize how short and boring threads would be if we stayed on topic? :laughing:
> 
> I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling here.


Yes in my own thread..made an ideal test for my new secret decoder ring powers.  Trust me, it was nothing worth reading anyways. I did keep MTW's comment because it was funny as hell. 



8V71 said:


> Alley??? Dude....I thought you moved to a large chunk of land in the sticks for dirt biking bliss. :001_huh:
> 
> What made you pick this one place all the way from Cali?


The alley is just a dirt road for the POCO ROW. And I picked this place because the price was really cheap, I have the land and there is not only a dirt track speedway literally right across the street but also a motocross track 13 miles away. (Closest I have ever lived to a track.)


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## That_Dude

mxslick said:


>


What's with the cabinet?


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## wildleg

let's see some outside pics. Was this a crackhouse ?


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## guest

That_Dude said:


> What's with the cabinet?


That is the sound rack for my home theatre system...see this post for better pics: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/picture-my-rack-44932/index2/#post836386

That rack will be stripped and changed out for my new setup here. 



wildleg said:


> let's see some outside pics. Was this a crackhouse ?


Wasn't a crackhouse, although the decor and hacked electrical makes me wonder. 

I will not be posting any exterior pics of the house or property. (except for closeups of electrical violations.)


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## That_Dude

mxslick said:


> That is the sound rack for my home theatre system...see this post for better pics: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/picture-my-rack-44932/index2/#post836386
> 
> That rack will be stripped and changed out for my new setup here.
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't a crackhouse, although the decor and hacked electrical makes me wonder.
> 
> I will not be posting any exterior pics of the house or property. (except for closeups of electrical violations.)


Nice rack idea. :thumbsup:
I wouldn't put pictures of your house online, thieves are online as well. :no:


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## guest

Time for an update here....

I spent the last three days or so demo'ing the wall opposite the "Wall of Shame" in the former workshop space that is heading into being my new master bedroom.  

The electrical wasn't quite as bad as it was in the wall of shame, so I really didn't want to take pics. All of the boxes had cable clamps and were well mounted...the only things that were off was the use of #10 on everything (on 20 amp breakers) and there was NO wire left in ANY of the boxes...I am still trying to figure out HTF they get devices made up and into the boxes. :001_huh:

But, I did find a few more surprises in the utility space (on the back part of the Wall of Shame) today: 

Exactly as found after removing the insulation in the ceiling:










And this was directly below that box in the pic above, the two 10/2's on the left of that box went down here: 










That box was also uncovered and behind the insulation, formerly behind the original sheetrock. :no:

The other side of that wall is what is now the existing bedroom, will be very interesting to see what surprises are behind those walls.....that project will be later this summer.


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## guest

And just for fun, here is my temporary kitchen subpanel: 










It is going to be replaced with a QO 32/32 100a main breaker panel, the wall behind is going to be torn out and rebuilt, and the extra NM is there so I wouldn't come up short with the new panel. 

Even I can't believe I did this.... but it works, ugly as it is. :laughing:


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## MTW

Wow, that's exciting. :yawn:


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## guest

MTW said:


> Wow, that's exciting. :yawn:


:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky

mxslick said:


> And just for fun, here is my temporary kitchen subpanel:
> 
> 
> 
> It is going to be replaced with a QO 32/32 100a main breaker panel, the wall behind is going to be torn out and rebuilt, and the extra NM is there so I wouldn't come up short with the new panel.
> 
> Even I can't believe I did this.... but it works, ugly as it is. :laughing:



Strange. I have this feeling I've seen that before.....


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## guest

480sparky said:


> Strange. I have this feeling I've seen that before.....



LOL and it looked worse in person I'd bet. :laughing:

I just added the 30a DP breaker and circuit today, it is taking care of the clothes dryer and the mini-range from my outbuilding. I just swap the plugs to cook or dry clothes.  

I'm glad you were able to visit and hope we have a chance to get together again someday..like when this upholstered toilet of mine is finished. :whistling2:


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## MTW

mxslick said:


> LOL and it looked worse in person I'd bet. :laughing:
> 
> I just added the 30a DP breaker and circuit today, it is taking care of the clothes dryer and the mini-range from my outbuilding. I just swap the plugs to cook or dry clothes.
> 
> *I'm glad you were able to visit and hope we have a chance to get together again someday*..like when this upholstered toilet of mine is finished. :whistling2:


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## 480sparky

MTW said:


>


Oh, yeah!


We have a PHOTO!!!


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## MTW

Eye bleach...need eye bleach!!!


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## A Little Short

480sparky said:


> Oh, yeah!
> 
> 
> We have a PHOTO!!!


In memory of B4T........

MX480/Drama Tool:thumbup:


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## MTW

A Little Short said:


> MX480/Drama Tool:thumbup:



:lol::lol:


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## Meadow

480sparky said:


> Oh, yeah!
> 
> 
> We have a PHOTO!!!


Is that a brothel/strip club to the left back ground? :laughing::thumbup:


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## guest

meadow said:


> Is that a brothel/strip club to the left back ground? :laughing::thumbup:


Nope it is the town's bar... 

I'm surprised you didn't get a heart attack after seeing the subpanel pic...:whistling2::laughing:


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## Meadow

mxslick said:


> Nope it is the town's bar...
> 
> I'm surprised you didn't get a heart attack after seeing the subpanel pic...


:laughing: I wont tell anyone, I promise 

As for your pick, dude, why didn't you give me a warning at least! That was so messed up. The sad part is you knew my ticker would act up. Im going to sue your arse off for visual assault and medical injury:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f33/electric-ho-month-71571/index2/



































































































:laughing::laughing::laughing: 


:jester::jester:


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## Black Dog

A Little Short said:


> In memory of B4T........
> 
> MX480/Drama Tool:thumbup:


:laughing::laughing:


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## MTW

480sparky and Mxslick together...that's worth a lifetime of jokes right there. :whistling2::laughing:


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