# Need controls information



## Jeff Lough (Jul 22, 2014)

We purchased a Doall 880 CNC mill that had been retrofitted with a servodynamics 3 axis drive and SEM motors with encoders. The machine was heavily damaged when we got it, and the control is missing. I have contacted a few vendors but no one wants to use the existing motors and drive. I need a control that will deliver 0-10 vdc signals and accept feedback from the encoders. I am currently looking at low cost PLCs from Automationdirect. I was wondering if anyone had any advice. Also, the encoder wires are unmarked and I wonder how I can identify each of the 10 wires. I tried contacting the manufacturer in England but got no reply. Thank you in advance. Jeff


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I would not do a thing to this unit without getting the company to recommend or send someone to fix it. Once you mess with it it is your problem. Remember England time change is 5 or 6 hours


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Having a 3 axis drive control system on a machine tool generally means the controller is capable of interpolated motion, meaning 3 axes moving at the same time to make curved surfaces. No PLC that you can get from AutomationDestruct is going to be capable of that and especially using just 0-10VDC signals.

There are companies that specialize in retrofit motion controllers for machine tools, where they regularly interface with other brands of motors (because they don't make motors, just controllers). 

One such company I am familiar with is Actek in Seattle. Their website seems to have been hacked and gets directed to some fashion seller, so maybe they went out of business since I last spoke to them, I don't know. But there are others like them out there, look for retrofit CNC controllers.


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## KennyW (Aug 31, 2013)

Jeff Lough said:


> We purchased a Doall 880 CNC mill that had been retrofitted with a servodynamics 3 axis drive and SEM motors with encoders. The machine was heavily damaged when we got it, and the control is missing. I have contacted a few vendors but no one wants to use the existing motors and drive. I need a control that will deliver 0-10 vdc signals and accept feedback from the encoders. I am currently looking at low cost PLCs from Automationdirect. I was wondering if anyone had any advice. Also, the encoder wires are unmarked and I wonder how I can identify each of the 10 wires. I tried contacting the manufacturer in England but got no reply. Thank you in advance. Jeff


Unless your time is worth nothing, I'm not so sure reverse engineering the existing stuff and finding a way to retrofit 3rd party control will be economical in the end. 

That said, Beckoff make several CNC-specific application environments for their hardware. 

http://www.beckhoff.ca/english.asp?twincat/einlei1.htm?id=15987603960688

http://www.beckhoff.ca/english.asp?applicat/machinetools.htm?id=70997827099887

In general most of this stuff is not exactly for the faint of heart...


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Considering the rapid advance of digital tech and robotics -- and the state of this cripple...

Start from a clean sheet and forget the old work.

Totally un-marked wires ? Good grief.

Sell the scrapped sub-components on eBay. :thumbsup:

On the economics...

I'd say that you've got a pile of scrap metal on your hands.

The buying decision was a mistake -- which can only be compounded by throwing good money after bad.

You'll commit suicide before you've doped this puppy out.

Just who is going to provide a warranty and tech support for this cross-breed ?

You have to realize that whom ever pulled this unit out of service -- didn't have a high opinion of it.

He trashed it. It's ruined. 

All that's left is to part it out. Yes, it's a stack of parts -- not a machine.

%%%

If you walk along with a man with a limp, soon you will, too.

If you dedicate your time to crippled machine tools, soon you too will be a cripple.

It's the perfect candidate to ruin your technical reputation.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

telsa said:


> Considering the rapid advance of digital tech and robotics -- and the state of this cripple...
> 
> Start from a clean sheet and forget the old work.
> 
> ...


You could have said all that in 3 sentences :thumbsup:


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

telsa said:


> I'd say that you've got a pile of scrap metal on your hands....


I don't know if I totally agree with this part. A functioning DoAll 880 with CNC is going to cost around $12-15K and take your chances, $30K if fully upgraded with more modern technology. An older non-CNC version can he had for $2-4K on FleaBay. When I used to do work with Actek, we could fully fit out and upgrade an older CNC vertical mill for around $5-8k by re-using the existing servos, depending on the computer we used (Actek's system used a card that went into an ISA or PCI slot in a PC). If it was an older non-CNC version, or one that used steppers instead of servos (we never re-used steppers), it would come to around $10-12K. So all in all if he can figure out a way to keep the servos he already has, it can still cost less than half of what it will be worth when finished.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

I just found out that the owner of Actek passed away last year, so I doubt the company survived him. The other people I knew there have different jobs on Linked-In as well.

Too bad...


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

In a production setting, I would not think that he could afford to save that much money.

Typically, such gear is priced in the after market as scrap... or as the fixin's for a hobbyist.

That's why it got 'the treatment.'

Out here in California,( Nevada, really) we have -- literally -- warehouses full of near-new 'clapped out' high tech machine tools. They were the state of the art only fifteen-years ago. Now their only real market is overseas... or hobbyists... or nothing.

If you've got the cash and the time, you can shop the bankruptcy auctions. You'd bug your eyes out. :thumbsup:

&&&

There's a real reason the Fortune 400 won't consider second hand machine tools. You can't win... in a production setting.

It's like buying an seven year old iPhone. What had been state of the art is now a brick. You can't even give them away on CraigsList.

&&&

In a production setting, such a cross-breed is going to need documentation -- and plenty of it.

Is the OP prepared to compose all of the detailed documentation to keep this puppy operational -- even after he's left ?

Most techs are quite incapable of describing -- in English -- how a machine works. 

My old college chum does that for his living. His tales are astounding. It _usually _takes _months_ for the tech experts to emit enough information to draft a tech manual that makes sense. 

Yes, they are absolutely terrible authors.

It's nothing for him to bill $40,000 for one tech manual. Yes, he's got clients lined up around the block. Very few know how to write and also comprehend high tech.

If you doubt me, flip through the typical MSFT documentation, especially twenty-years ago. They've finally broken down and spent the big bucks to get talent.

Do note how few of the ET members post. Writing is not their strong suit. Solving things is. :thumbup:


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

JRaef said:


> Their website seems to have been hacked and gets directed to some fashion seller


... so let's call them up to work on some complicated machinery :laughing:


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## Jeff Lough (Jul 22, 2014)

Thank you for your input. I agree that it is scrap. But the owner likes buying this stuff and making it work. I can only try to give him what he wants if I can. Will probably buy a few transformers and potentiometers and use the machine as manual only. The boss seems ok with that idea.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Seems your boss is an okay guy.
In my personal experience, they would have purchased the machine, deliver it and hand me a work order to get it running.
Case closed.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

telsa said:


> In a production setting, I would not think that he could afford to save that much money. ...


Ok, in a production setting, I would agree. A Flexible Machining Center is the way to go now if you want production machining and that is your livelihood, or validation of parts and tolerances is critical. I would never have done this for Boeing for example, however I did it for plenty of small sub assembly shops making components FOR Boeing where the mill was for making jigs and tools, not production machining itself, where they wanted to remake the same jig periodically by just feeding the file for it into the computer.

Anyway, he has solved his problem to his bosses satisfaction it appears, and that is the ultimate goal of any employee...:thumbsup:


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