# LED troffers versus flat panels



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Have you seen the powered ceiling grid yet? 

You power up the actual ceiling grid with low voltage and the low voltage panel style troffers connect to the grid.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

eddy current said:


> Have you seen the powered ceiling grid yet?
> 
> You power up the actual ceiling grid with low voltage and the low voltage panel style troffers connect to the grid.[/QUOTE
> 
> Nope and I'm not sure I want to  .


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

99cents said:


> eddy current said:
> 
> 
> > Have you seen the powered ceiling grid yet?
> ...


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

eddy current said:


> 99cents said:
> 
> 
> > They are out there and our code (2018 CEC) have rules regarding them.
> ...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I haven't used the flat panels yet, but they look cool. Perfect for basement ceilings where you only have a couple inches of clearance.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Many lighting suppliers pretty much sell only led’s now. The only time they sell the old style troffers is if a customer needs to match existing. Even in residential everyone uses the low voltage puck lights instead of the old 120 volt pot lights. Cabinet guys and drywallers are installing them and the electrician just powers the drivers. 

In my city there are residential lighting and automation companies starting up with no electricians on the payroll.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Flat panels have been a pain in the ass. 7 out of ten times or so for me. Either I was given the ones with the teeny wiring compartment near the edge of the thing and not in the center so my box ends up 8" away from where the wire connections are at, or else I get the type that have to slide into some sort of tray that needs 2 individuals to manage what used to be a one man job with fluorescent light fixtures. If I know ahead, at least I can figure 1-1/2 hours of labor each on them.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Edit- I have noticed that the companies that sell to big box stores are constantly changing and making improvements for things like providing enough space for wire nuts and wire to fit behind. Feedback to the stores is important. Or maybe its the returns. There is still a way to go though ....


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't like the idea of the junction box being built onto the flat panel light. I would prefer a floating box/driver with a low voltage connection like the pancake/wafer recessed lights use.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

I just installed over 200 of the 2x4 led panels. Like other people have said the box being on the side of the panel means that you have to replace alot of wires that are to short to reach. 
One of the knock outs is to close to the ceiling rail so thats also doesn't help with the original wire length. We have about 60 more to do but we ran into trouble as 45 of the old ones had ventilation slots and were being used by the air-con system. The other 15 were mounted in plaster ceilings (bathrooms) and they kits they make to retrofit do not work. (would have to make the hole larger)

We will be installing led upgrades in these lights that look like a tv antenna. Just cut the wires and remove the ballast then 4 self drilling screws holds it in place. We will replace the diffuse cover so they look like the newer leds.


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## SISYPHUS (Aug 13, 2018)

> In my city there are residential lighting and automation companies starting up with no electricians on the payroll.


They've gone lith-ion peel stick fire alarms here 

Marketing trade-less technology to replace us doesn't excite me, iirc under 50V is a benchmark.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I’ll be most likely doing the wireless smokes at home once I figure out which brand to use. I’m not going to carve up my house in the process. Been watching the low voltage grid thing. Can’t say it’s taken off here yet. I don’t know that the way the laws written here that the voltage threshold matters much. We’re supposed be in charge of anything electrically heat power light. Don’t think voltage is part of the law, then again, it’s ok for the plumbers to wire their boilers and furnaces. See where it goes. As others said, there will always be changes to our wiring methods and products that reduce or eliminate labor.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

SISYPHUS said:


> They've gone lith-ion peel stick fire alarms here
> 
> Marketing trade-less technology to replace us doesn't excite me, iirc under 50V is a benchmark.


Wireless fire alarm isn’t allowed here........yet.

Loosing our work doesn’t excite me either, quite the opposite actually. lain:


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

They use to make a electrical mat that went under carpet. I wonder if that is still available on the market.

If you needed a light somewhere the base had pins that would go through the carpet into the mat. It was low voltage dc before leds were available. We installed alot of it in shop display windows so they could move the spot lights for the manikins. (this was 20 years ago). I always wanted it in my home so i could grab a lamp and put in anywhere in the room.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I have installed a decent number of 2x4 and 2x2 flat panel LEDs. I don't mind them, but they get damaged really easily. I've had a solid 10% return rate for them showing up bent.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Going_Commando said:


> I have installed a decent number of 2x4 and 2x2 flat panel LEDs. I don't mind them, but they get damaged really easily. I've had a solid 10% return rate for them showing up bent.


Poor packaging or poor handling?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I love the flat panels, they look good and everyone seems to like the light.



They are especially nice in those zero headroom situations too.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

gpop said:


> Poor packaging or poor handling?


Probably both. The lithonias just don't have a lot of support in the packaging, and supply house monkeys aren't easy on anything.


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## alekseiis (Jul 6, 2018)

We have seen the market moved more to panels because of simplicity and fixture depth (usually not more than 2 in) that makes it easier to install in tights ceiling spaces. Some buildings still prefer to use architectural troffers for design look or network capability (nLights, etc.)

gpop, good point about wiring issues with drivers mounted on the side of panels.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We have started to install these for customers. They look really good.
I didn't personally wire any of them but, I understand each one had its own tiny wiring nightmare.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I really like the Cree ZR24 series. But they cost me $120, so lately I have been using the flat panels in areas that customers do not see. $67


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