# Union rules pulling Low-Voltage AV Cabling



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

A disabled child could pull lv cables. Why is this even an issue


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## adonkle (Jun 10, 2014)

ponyboy said:


> A disabled child could pull lv cables. Why is this even an issue


Difficulty isn't with pulling the cable. The challenge we hear back from jobs is the demarc between AV contractor's scope and the EC's. We add a large box directly outside each equipment rack for all cables to terminate into if the EC is pulling wire, that way the AV contractor is solely responsible for all wires inside the rack itself and everyone is happy. When the EC pulls cable directly into the rack, anything breaking inside the AV rack becomes a bad game of who-dun-it that we'd rather see avoided.


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## Big Pickles (Oct 25, 2014)

Never heard of a city mandating union workers.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

adonkle said:


> For audio-video system installations, the majority of projects we work on involve the GC hiring a specialty AV contractor to supply and install the systems we design. Most AV contractors will generally want to provide and pull their own cable (e.g. loudspeaker, microphone, and video cables, etc.) However, we've also run across a few cities where the local rules require a union electrician to pull all AV cable instead of the AV contractor. (e.g. Vegas)
> 
> We make a few design adjustments depending who is pulling the cable, so is there anyway to determine during design of DBB projects what the rules within a particular city are on who is allowed to pull LV AV cables? Are these types of rules published online anywhere?



Some states have a state electricians board and you can usually find those rules for low voltage work, but a phone call to the local electrical inspector and the local hall should get you the answer.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Big Pickles said:


> Never heard of a city mandating union workers.


They can't require union membership to work on a job. They can require an electrical contractors license and an electrician's license to install the low voltage cables.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> They can't require union membership to work on a job. They can require an electrical contractors license and an electrician's license to install the low voltage cables.


If I am not mistaken, there were rules put in place at the start of the current administration's tenure that required Federally funded projects to be PLA union only. February 2009 to be exact. Many municipal projects are supported by Federal funding and subject to the rules.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

While PLAs are based union agreements, there is nothing in them that prevents non-union contractors from bidding the job. All contractors, union or non-union must bid to the terms of the PLA. That will include wages, benefits and work rules. Federal law prohibits employment discrimination based on union membership. That being said, the PLA can make it more difficult for non-signatory contractors to get the job.

None of the local and state federally funded projects around here have used PLAs, but they are subject to the Davis-Bacon rules, and in some cases "responsible bidder" laws.


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## eejack (Jul 14, 2012)

If you really believe that you have to redesign based on who is pulling and who is terminating the cable then you ought to design your jobs so that the two tasks are always separate. As the designer you really should have zero input on who does what. That is up to the folks spending the money.

That said, no one can demand union installation. It can be suggested or recommended. However many jobs go split installation around here - electricians install and little wire guys terminate ( regardless of union/non union ).


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I know in San Francisco we have buildings that are Union labor only, but that is not a government requirement. Rather it is an agreement that has been worked out on some level between the building owners and the local, at least to the best of my knowledge.


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