# mobile Transformer for marina



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Etwo said:


> Does someone here has any experience installing mobile transformer for marinas?
> Transformer needed is 100KVA, 480V - 120/208V, the transformer needs to be mobile bcuz the boat moves around


I take it you can't just install the transformer on the boat?

I'm following this because I'm curious about this.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Most larger boats have their own transformers to accept a lot of different power so your question is a bit puzzling. Could you give us some more details?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Sorry for making this unclear. The transformer will be installed on the dock to provide ship to shore power. The problem is the boat relocate places so the transformer needs to be mobile so they can take it with them.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

So why not install the transformer on the boat and connect the 480 ship to shore?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

I haven’t worked on very many docks but the first thing I thought was “****, there it goes, get it get it get it!” _splash_


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I did power supplies for submarines, but those did not move on the pier. 4000 amp 480v fore and aft for each sub.

I believe you are going to be shocked at the cost of this. The armored cable needed to be connected to the supply will be expensive. Then the cord into the boat will be less than cheap.

There are 1000's of ways to connect a pier to a boat and the exact needs of the boat would in this situation be apparent. How ever the extension cord from the xfmer to the supply could longer than most would think. I would not consider using anything for the main power cable other than armored cable. Which will provide a huge problem as that stuff does not coil up into small packages.
Then there is the fittings/connectors you will need.....


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

How could we give you any worthwhile advice with so little information.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

MikeFL said:


> So why not install the transformer on the boat and connect the 480 ship to shore?


Like all the boat manufactures of the world do?


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Etwo said:


> Does someone here has any experience installing mobile transformer for marinas?
> Transformer needed is 100KVA, 480V - 120/208V, the transformer needs to be mobile bcuz the boat moves around


Lets start from the title.
Is this mobile Transformer for *marina *or mobile Transformer for *boat.*
3 Phase?
Does the boat *need* 270 amp per phase at 208?
If this is for the Boat you just need ship to shore cable from boat to transformer, and short pigtail on xformer. You can't know how far power is away at marina. You are also opening up a can of worms with a xformer and arc flash ratings due to unknowns.
Good Luck
Cowboy


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> Lets start from the title.
> Is this mobile Transformer for *marina *or mobile Transformer for *boat.*
> 3 Phase?
> Does the boat *need* 270 amp per phase at 208?
> ...


The transformer is 100kva, 480v primary- 120/208v secondary, 3phase.
The boat needs 208V, 200A, 3ph. There is 480v power available which will be used to step down the new transformer. This new transformer cannot be permanent to provide ship to shore power because the boat moves to different location to berths so customer wants if portable transformer or solution available.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Etwo said:


> The transformer is 100kva, 480v primary- 120/208v secondary, 3phase.
> The boat needs 208V, 200A, 3ph. There is 480v power available which will be used to step down the new transformer. This new transformer cannot be permanent to provide ship to shore power because the boat moves to different location to berths so customer wants if portable transformer or solution available.


With a ship this size they can't find a spot for the transformer on board? 
Sounds like the customer is the boat owner, I would just set it up with ship to shore plug from boat to transformer and disconnect on transformer. It is the Marinas responsibility to provide proper power to transformer.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

I wouldn't think a marina is going to let you plant a transformer on their dock.
They're very particular as to what's allowed on the docks and for good reason.

It would be easy enough to call 5 marinas capable of docking that boat and ask if they're going to allow that. Then get back to the customer and explain why the transformer is going on the boat.

Or is this some military application where they have control of landside operations?


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

This is the craziest thread, I'm just here to see what happens.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Pictures or it’s not real.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

MikeFL said:


> I wouldn't think a marina is going to let you plant a transformer on their dock.
> They're very particular as to what's allowed on the docks and for good reason.
> 
> It would be easy enough to call 5 marinas capable of docking that boat and ask if they're going to allow that. Then get back to the customer and explain why the transformer is going on the boat.
> ...


Haha everyone got crazy on this thread. It’s military application. They control the landside. I see why everyone is curious and excited


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

20 years ago I was being asked to let a new Home Depot open early because a major hurricane was coming. The job wasn't done. As I pulled up FPL is connecting the power to a padmount transformer which was located where it was going to be under 3 feet of water because the site civil work was incomplete. I asked POCO what happens when there's 3 feet of water above it and he said it's going to fine because it's a submersible transformer. I asked him to open the cabinet and he did. I was convinced it was submersible.

That being said, I'd suggest same for your application.

Now that we understand the project, what's the question?

The 480 supply is 3 phase, right?

As to mobility, it's on you to design a frame with lifting hardware.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Etwo said:


> Haha everyone got crazy on this thread. It’s military application. They control the landside. I see why everyone is curious and excited


If on base "99 shop" ground power temporary services should supply power to the xformer disconnect.
You only need standard connection large plugs and cable.
Cowboy


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

MikeFL said:


> 20 years ago I was being asked to let a new Home Depot open early because a major hurricane was coming. The job wasn't done. As I pulled up FPL is connecting the power to a padmount transformer which was located where it was going to be under 3 feet of water because the site civil work was incomplete. I asked POCO what happens when there's 3 feet of water above it and he said it's going to fine because it's a submersible transformer. I asked him to open the cabinet and he did. I was convinced it was submersible.
> 
> That being said, I'd suggest same for your application.
> 
> ...


Yes the 480v is 3ph. So the questions are, transformer with lifting frame, does it need to be anchored to concrete?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> If on base "99 shop" ground power temporary services should supply power to the xformer disconnect.
> You only need standard connection large plugs and cable.
> Cowboy


So the GEC will be temporary connection. Wherever they take it, they must have ground to connect


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Etwo said:


> The transformer is 100kva, 480v primary- 120/208v secondary, 3phase.
> The boat needs 208V, 200A, 3ph. There is 480v power available which will be used to step down the new transformer. This new transformer cannot be permanent to provide ship to shore power because the boat moves to different location to berths so customer wants if portable transformer* or solution* available.


Here is the solution. Find a spot to mount the transformer and associated equipment on the boat. Have a 480V/3-phase 100-amp cord made up that will plug into the shore plug of the different berths (that I believe are standardized) and feed the transformer (I'll leave the details of how up to you). Go from the transformer with a 200-amp cord feeding where you would plug in a shore power cords if was 120/208. 

So you have 3 cords to make. 1 for shore power being 120/208; 1 for shore power being 480V; 1 for going from the transformer output (on the boat) to the 120/208 input. 

No lifting and wiring at each location. You can hook up to 480 or 208, what ever the berth has.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> Here is the solution. Find a spot to mount the transformer and associated equipment on the boat. Have a 480V/3-phase 100-amp cord made up that will plug into the shore plug of the different berths (that I believe are standardized) and feed the transformer (I'll leave the details of how up to you). Go from the transformer with a 200-amp cord feeding where you would plug in a shore power cords if was 120/208.
> 
> So you have 3 cords to make. 1 for shore power being 120/208; 1 for shore power being 480V; 1 for going from the transformer output (on the boat) to the 120/208 input.
> 
> No lifting and wiring at each location. You can hook up to 480 or 208, what ever the berth has.


That is an interesting idea. the transformer cannot be mounted on the boat. The transformer has to be on the dockside


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Etwo said:


> That is an interesting idea. the transformer* cannot be mounted on the boat*. The transformer has to be on the dockside


Cannot or may not? Care to share the why of it? Just curious.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> Cannot or may not? Care to share the why of it? Just curious.


Because the boat is owned by contractors


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Etwo said:


> Yes the 480v is 3ph. So the questions are, transformer with lifting frame, does it need to be anchored to concrete?


It would be good practice to anchor it for safety and probably traffic protection too.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Etwo said:


> Because the boat is owned by contractors


Okay, so the contractor carries it with them but it must be off their boat before it's energized?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

How far apart are these berths? 

Is there a forklift available? 

What is the terrain like between them?

How about a transformer at each berth?


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Is this for a Federal government site with outside contractors. Someone said it was military use. I would think there are engineered plans or specs to follow. Is a 100 kva transformer a standard size? I thought it went from 75 to 112 KVA.
A 200 amp, three phase cable that has to be weather rated I am sure is going to be quite heavy and bulky. Metal jacket cable does not have the flexibility to constantly be rolled up. 
As several people said too many questions. It might be best left up to the site engineer unless they all got mandate fired.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

MikeFL said:


> It would be good practice to anchor it for safety and probably traffic protection too.


Yea that’s what I am thinking too. 


oldsparky52 said:


> Okay, so the contractor carries it with them but it must be off their boat before it's energized?


My understanding is the customer which is the military has to provide power at the dock so that the boat can connect the power


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

micromind said:


> How far apart are these berths?
> Unknown
> Is there a forklift available?
> I wouldn’t know that, but they want mobile if it’s possible so they must have
> ...


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

kb1jb1 said:


> Is this for a Federal government site with outside contractors. Someone said it was military use. I would think there are engineered plans or specs to follow. Is a 100 kva transformer a standard size? I thought it went from 75 to 112 KVA.
> A 200 amp, three phase cable that has to be weather rated I am sure is going to be quite heavy and bulky. Metal jacket cable does not have the flexibility to constantly be rolled up.
> As several people said too many questions. It might be best left up to the site engineer unless they all got mandate fired.


The question Is- most important question I need help is does mobile transformer exist? That is safe installation, not the portable from rental


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

The transformer exists. You need to make the mobile solution. If the boat has it's own 208 shore power cords, all you have to do is match your outlet to his plug. Going across the water is on him, right?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Etwo said:


> The question Is- most important question I need help is does mobile transformer exist? That is safe installation, not the portable from rental


Or from your experience,


MikeFL said:


> The transformer exists. You need to make the mobile solution. If the boat has it's own 208 shore power cords, all you have to do is match your outlet to his plug. Going across the water is on him, right?


Correct.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

How big a boat is this? It seems that you want to make stock parts into a very specialized installation. 480 volts and 100 amperes by salt water is not something to mess around with. You need primary and secondary protection. Disconnects. Extra hard usage cable. Flexibility. Portability. Grounding electrodes and conductors.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

If the OP is a power systems designer why is he coming to us for advice? He would be the guy we would go to for a design. Ships and their assorted equipment I believe fall under the Coast Guard or some similar agency. We stop at the dock.


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

4x transformer, mounted on metal skid with disconnects and appropriate connectors for cable and gec. Done.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

On big jobs around here, there are a number of portable transformers, usually 15 - 45 KVA. They have wheels welded on to the bottom of the frame, a 480 volt fused disconnect on one side and a 120/240 or 120/208 panel with a bunch of receptacles and 50 amp pigtails on the other. 

A 75 or 112.5KVA unit will weigh around 600 lbs. Wheels could be welded onto the bottom of the frame or a dolly with wheels could be made for it to sit on. 

It'd be hard to push it around on anything other than a smooth surface like concrete or blacktop and it'd get real heavy on any kind of a slope. Pushing it more than a few hundred feet on flat ground would be tiring. 

If it has a cord attached, that would make it even heavier. The cord would likely be 1/0 or 2/0 type G, G/GC or W. This cord would be heavy and not all that flexible. If it's longer than about 50', you'll need more than one guy to coil/uncoil it. Figure the coil to be about 3' in diameter, likely even more. 

The nice thing about using type GC is it has more than one grounding conductor so you can check ground continuity from one end and not have to run a test lead from one end to the other.


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## CAUSA (Apr 3, 2013)

So how will the transformer be moved?

Jib crane on the boat?
Dock side crane?
Fork lift.

will it be loaded on the boat, To the next site?

I would frame and skid the transformer to protect it during transport , including the plugs installed to hook up the portable power cables. And set up the frame to accommodate the lifting process.

Frame would prevent dock bumps from passing traffic.
This way it can be easier to load and secure to move to the next site.

the simpler the setup the better. If you do 4 corner lift and fork pocket skid design. 4 way.

this would not be cheap, but something to look in to. Once built, if the transformer fails you can just fit in another one and back in action.

Cons would be, dock master might want a engineered lifting frame, with a lift plan.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

kb1jb1 said:


> How big a boat is this? It seems that you want to make stock parts into a very specialized installation. 480 volts and 100 amperes by salt water is not something to mess around with. You need primary and secondary protection. Disconnects. Extra hard usage cable. Flexibility. Portability. Grounding electrodes and conductors.


Y


kb1jb1 said:


> How big a boat is this? It seems that you want to make stock parts into a very specialized installation. 480 volts and 100 amperes by salt water is not something to mess around with. You need primary and secondary protection. Disconnects. Extra hard usage cable. Flexibility. Portability. Grounding electrodes and conductors.


Yea I’m thinking of built in integral ocpd primary and secondary transformer. Individual GFP breaker per article 555 for the receptacle


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

MotoGP1199 said:


> 4x transformer, mounted on metal skid with disconnects and appropriate connectors for cable and gec. Done.


That’s good idea, but the stainless steel skid cage- probably expensive. I was thinking to anchor it to slab


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

micromind said:


> On big jobs around here, there are a number of portable transformers, usually 15 - 45 KVA. They have wheels welded on to the bottom of the frame, a 480 volt fused disconnect on one side and a 120/240 or 120/208 panel with a bunch of receptacles and 50 amp pigtails on the other.
> 
> A 75 or 112.5KVA unit will weigh around 600 lbs. Wheels could be welded onto the bottom of the frame or a dolly with wheels could be made for it to sit on.
> 
> ...


I dnt really like the wheels type like the rental ones. I want the installation to be permanent as the same time to be easily portable so I dnt feel comfortable with wheels. GC Cables are I didn’t know about that. Thanks for the info


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

CAUSA said:


> So how will the transformer be moved?
> 
> Jib crane on the boat?
> Dock side crane?
> ...


I believe fork lift but I think depends on the design. I like the the transformer on metal skid So the metal skid can be used to support the disconnect / receptacle. that seems better solution

the next location will not be loaded on boat. It will be loaded on the dock


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Why not talk to a company like Lex Products and see what their custom division can do.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> I believe fork lift but I think depends on the design. I like the the transformer on metal skid So the metal skid can be used to support the disconnect / receptacle. that seems better solution
> 
> the next location will not be loaded on boat. It will be loaded on the dock


so .... you have to truck it to the next location the boat moves to?
or possibly put it on a cargo boat to move to the new location?

none of that sounds like what i would want for my boat
i would break up my boats power requirements to separated onboard panels that could accept multiple shore supply connections at 120/208 without a 480 transformer

this would probably require a single handle disconnect for the multiple supplies feeding the boat
obviously that would require a custom build, but it would be preferable to having a transformer on board or having to follow the boat around
and would be cheaper than the cost of the transformer and also moving it around

not to mention making the boat independent of waiting on the transformer to catch up to it


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Almost Retired said:


> so .... you have to truck it to the next location the boat moves to?
> or possibly put it on a cargo boat to move to the new location?
> 
> none of that sounds like what i would want for my boat
> ...


Military has their reasons for what they do. They have an asset or resource which arrives by water and they need to feed it 208 3p on a base that has 480 3p available. They'll do what they need to do to get it where it needs to be, and they're good at that.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

MikeFL said:


> Military has their reasons for what they do. They have an asset or resource which arrives by water and they need to feed it 208 3p on a base that has 480 3p available. They'll do what they need to do to get it where it needs to be, and they're good at that.


i didnt know it was definitely military, i thought that was not yet confirmed
but if it is, then of course
they will put a transformer at every place the boat goes to ,, no worries


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## Djea3 (Mar 8, 2019)

This one reason why I left Lockheed Missiles and Space. Stupidity in the contract and abuse of taxpayer money. Instead of the winner of the contract having to supply a boat with transformers to match dockside requirements, someone specified that dockside transformer would be provided for the contractor.
This is just a waist of TAXPAYER money and will result in very expensive operations (having to move specialized equipment to meet the needs of the contract), as well as eventual surplus of very expensive transformer etc.
Obviously the taxpayer did not get the "lowest bid" from a "fully qualified vendor". Instead the vendor set up a situation to purchase its transformer for its boat at the surplus auction at the expense of taxpayers.
I can't stand this crap.


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## Garyrich2000 (Nov 1, 2012)

We always setup a transformer that is bolted or strapped to a pallet so riggers can transport it easily.
Then, we run an extensions on the primary and secondary sides. Usually twist lock connectors at the transformer, but sometimes lugged and bolted. On very long runs, we lug and bolt and then follow the under water splicing methods for temporary installs, which we remove after a ship departs.
On smaller vessels, a 60 amp or 100 amp Appleton plug provides enough power for the vessel.


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

This is very common and easy. Just weld up a frame and put it on it. LOL it's not that complicated.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

kb1jb1 said:


> A 200 amp, three phase cable that has to be weather rated I am sure is going to be quite heavy and bulky.


Around 5 pound per foot if I remember right. 
The ship to shore cable to run large ships was 50 pounds per foot


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Garyrich2000 said:


> We always setup a transformer that is bolted or strapped to a pallet so riggers can transport it easily.
> Then, we run an extensions on the primary and secondary sides. Usually twist lock connectors at the transformer, but sometimes lugged and bolted. On very long runs, we lug and bolt and then follow the under water splicing methods for temporary installs, which we remove after a ship departs.
> On smaller vessels, a 60 amp or 100 amp Appleton plug provides enough power for the vessel.


What kind of transformer did you use? Does the transformer life is span decrease due to moving them here and there?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Etwo said:


> The transformer is 100kva, 480v primary- 120/208v secondary, 3phase.
> The boat needs 208V, 200A, 3ph. There is 480v power available which will be used to step down the new transformer. This new transformer cannot be permanent to provide ship to shore power because the boat moves to different location to berths so customer wants if portable transformer or solution available.


The last 112.5kva we installed was too big to fit through the electric room door.
We had to take it apart and put it back together. I don't know how wide the dock is or how friendly it might be to add several hundred pounds of load to it. We have docks here that are between 100' and as long as 1000 feet. I think your boat needs o buy its own transformer


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## MotoGP1199 (Aug 11, 2014)

We haven't heard of its military yet or not correct?. If it is military I could see how they would want to keep the weight off the boat and deal with the price if necessary in certain cases. However a lot of the military ships I see are rather large and 600-800 pounds isn't much, Although that could be one or a few extra SMALL torpedos,, extra fuel, or extra booze.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

My guess is the military is required to provide shore power that the boat needs. The boat needs 208, the military has 480. 

Military will purchase the transformer but can't stand to have it installed on the boat. They will let the boat carry it from port to port, but not have it installed. Which is crazy because having it on the boat makes it so easy.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

MotoGP1199 said:


> We haven't heard of its military yet or not correct?. If it is military I could see how they would want to keep the weight off the boat and deal with the price if necessary in certain cases. However a lot of the military ships I see are rather large and 600-800 pounds isn't much, Although that could be one or a few extra SMALL torpedos,, extra fuel, or extra booze.


Yes it’s military base. It was mentioned while back


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Etwo said:


> Yes it’s military base. It was mentioned while back


and they actually want to move the txr every time the ship moves ? or are we just talking on and off of the local dock ? not to the next dock?


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> and they actually want to move the txr every time the ship moves ? or are we just talking on and off of the local dock ? not to the next dock?


I assume the boat will berth for a while and when it moves to next dock, I guess they want to move the transformer


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## Mbit (Feb 28, 2020)

Just use DLO cable. It's flexible and easy to handle. Figure out what connectors they require. Sounds like a small boat if it's not using 480. That means the runs should be pretty short.

Where are you landing the shore power on the boat? Dedicated paralleling switchgear with receptacles? Knife switch? Pulling a panel in the back of the switchgear and bolting straight to the bus? How will you route the cables to the engine room? Dedicated penetration?

I would do a dedicated shore power inlet with camlocks.


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## Etwo (Mar 22, 2021)

Mbit said:


> Just use DLO cable. It's flexible and easy to handle. Figure out what connectors they require. Sounds like a small boat if it's not using 480. That means the runs should be pretty short.
> 
> Where are you landing the shore power on the boat? Dedicated paralleling switchgear with receptacles? Knife switch? Pulling a panel in the back of the switchgear and bolting straight to the bus? How will you route the cables to the engine room? Dedicated penetration?
> 
> I would do a dedicated shore power inlet with camlocks.


The cable run should be small because the transformer will be on the dockside. The boat has dedicated receptacle so what I am thinking is a step down transformer with integrated primary and secondary breakers. This transformer will be installed on metal skid. Then From secondary will terminate to disconnect switch to receptacle.

primary side should have 480V receptacle plug for easy connection


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