# Pushmatic panels?



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Ultimately, it's up to the customer to decide. They're obsolete. Any circuit breaker can get old and tired. At least Pushmatics weren't garbage fresh out of the box like Stab Loks were.

My experience with panel swaps is that, if it isn't an easy sell, you're not going to sell it.


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## Travvy (Sep 17, 2017)

99cents said:


> Ultimately, it's up to the customer to decide. They're obsolete. Any circuit breaker can get old and tired. At least Pushmatics weren't garbage fresh out of the box like Stab Loks were.
> 
> My experience with panel swaps is that, if it isn't an easy sell, you're not going to sell it.


So you wouldn’t say they’re inherently dangerous simply because they’re pushmatic?


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Not only are they not dangerous, I maintain that they were perhaps the finest residential panel ever made. They were the only resi bolt-on panel. You'll never find a properly installed pushmatic with a burned up breaker-to-bus connection, unlike almost every other brand (the single most common failure mode in a resi panel). 

The trouble came as the panels aged, particularly in outdoor installations, when the operating mechanism wouldn't reliably turn the breaker off. They'd trip if they ever needed to, but the manual pushbutton would get fussy.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> Not only are they not dangerous, I maintain that they were perhaps the finest residential panel ever made. They were the only resi bolt-on panel. You'll never find a properly installed pushmatic with a burned up breaker-to-bus connection, unlike almost every other brand (the single most common failure mode in a resi panel).


Rust and water intrusion has destroyed the few Pushmatics I have seen or worked on since they are so old at this point. Otherwise I agree with you. They are very good quality.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

I concur with the above.

While now obsolete, Pushmatics were a fine product in their day. I wouldn't consider them an immediate danger. 

The thing is that everything has a lifespan, so if you can sell an upgrade, sell an upgrade.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

At the very least, exercise them, and do a V/D, and leakage test on them. 

Blow out the cob webs, check connections, and you're good to go.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

And today I was at a machine shop that had a pushmatic panel fed from a 240 x 120/240 transformer tapped to about 270v. Apparently when the shop was built in 1977 someone got a bunch of 277v lights from a school that was demoed or remolded. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Pushmatic just went away (as a brand) when their parent company Bulldog was sold to ITE, who was then sold to Siemens and became redundant in the Siemens / Murray product lines, but they were never recalled. The biggest problem with Pushmatic is just that replacements are harder to find, and you can't get AFCIs for when you do remodels or additions.



I don't believe there was a "recall" on FPE breakers either. FPE went under long before the concept of widespread product recalls took hold. In fact the only breakers that have been officially recalled are products still for sale to this day from Siemens, Schneider (Sq. D), Eaton and GE, who have all had recalls of specific manufacturing batches because of (usually) defective materials.


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

In this area, insurance companies like State Farm will force the owner to replace the service entrance if they see Pushmatic. The mechanical action of that style breaker prevents it from tripping sometimes.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Also the phasing is odd. One side of the panel is a phase, the other side another phase.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

eddy current said:


> Also the phasing is odd. One side of the panel is a phase, the other side another phase.


Did I actually catch you on someting, eddy? One line on the left, one line on the right  .


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

3DDesign said:


> In this area, insurance companies like State Farm will force the owner to replace the service entrance if they see Pushmatic. The mechanical action of that style breaker prevents it from tripping sometimes.


The mechanical action of any breaker can get sticky if it isn't exercised. The kld Stab Loks seem to be the worst. They squeak when you exercise them.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Like said above the only resi bolt in panel.
Left side is all A phase & right is all B phase, not A, B, A, B.

The breakers are wider, so I don't know if I seen more then 20 circuit panels.
A 40 circuit would be very tall for resi.
I think they may have made mini breakers, 2 breakers in 1 spot.
And a few GFI breakers.
Never any AF breakers.

So if you need to add a few circuits & their is no room, cant get an AF breaker, new replacement breakers are expensive & not readily available. It may just make sense when doing a project to change the panel.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> They were the only resi bolt-on panel.


Did you guys (USA) not have those sylvania / commander bolt on panels for ressi?

I’ve seen more of those than any other old ressi breaker panels around here.


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## JoeSparky (Mar 25, 2010)

Only seen 2 commander panels in my life. Both were in modular houses built in Canada.


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

if you are trying to save time-money, pushmatic breakers are still available from seimens and not all that expensive. however it is an upsale situation


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