# Rough in's to Trim out



## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

We are having problems keeping track of the material needed to trim out a houses. Most the time I will just look at the prints and order the trim out materials, but there is always that one piece that is forgotten that is not on the truck. I was wondering what some other job mangers or owners did to keep this problem under control.

Im thinking of making a sheet that will list all things done at rough in. like

Single gang SW boxes installed_____
Two Gang SW Boxes___

and so on.

I think this could really save time and money once it was implemented. It could serve at a check list for the rough in, Material list for time out and track material used.

Our residential guys do anywhere from 13 to 16 per month and are not always the same guys going back for the trim out. 

Any thoughts??


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I don't really have this problem. I take way more than I'd ever need, so there's not really any problems. I leave the "special" trims (bath fan trims, etc), in the bath tub when I do the rough-in, and they're always there when I go back to trim out. Even months and months later.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I don't really have this problem. I take way more than I'd ever need, so there's not really any problems. I leave the "special" trims (bath fan trims, etc), in the bath tub when I do the rough-in, and they're always there when I go back to trim out. Even months and months later.


 

I do the same thing. I write on the box NOT TRASH. DO NOT THROW AWAY. Sometimes, if theres an attic I'll throw all the trims into the attic and nobody messes with them


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I take the trim material from bath fans and put them back in their boxes, mark them "MARTIN, 12345 MAIN ST" and put it on a shelf.

All other stuff, like breakers and devices, you should over-order it so you have enough if you find a defective item or break a cover or two. Run-of-the-mill stuff like that carries over from one job to another.

Absolutely NO WAY would I try to count a set number of an item, and go trim it out with exactly that number.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I take the trim material from bath fans and put them back in their boxes, mark them "MARTIN, 12345 MAIN ST" and put it on a shelf.


That is EXACTLY what I used to do, but I ended up with 40-zillion boxes of stuff that I had to store. I STILL have some of the shelf from jobs I roughed in many years ago. I have no idea what's up with those folks. If I ever get slow, it is my intention to call them and see what's going on. Matter of fact, I've even used some of the "their" trim parts for other jobs to replace broken items.

Oh, and I agree, there's no way in this world I'd ever count switches and receptacles, etc. The only thing I count is something truly special, like can trims, dimmers, plugmold, etc. Commodity items, no way.... just bring a sh!t pile.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> That is EXACTLY what I used to do, but I ended up with 40-zillion boxes of stuff that I had to store...........


I would never try to leave something in the tub. The sheetrockers would toss it putting in greenrock around the tub.. I have yet to find an acceptable 'hiding spot' on a job site where I felt comfortable.

I used to leave the panel covers between the furnace & return air duct, but I had too many sprout legs. So I leave absolutely nothing on-site.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I would never try to leave something in the tub. The sheetrockers would toss it putting in greenrock around the tub.. I have yet to find an acceptable 'hiding spot' on a job site where I felt comfortable.
> 
> I used to leave the panel covers between the furnace & return air duct, but I had too many sprout legs. So I leave absolutely nothing on-site.


If I had the experiences you've had, I'd probably still take the trim boxes back to the shop. Luckily, for me, I never really have stuff left on-site damaged or walk off. Sure seems like it could, but that's not happening to me. I'm sorry that's happening to you.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I have 3' X 2' tubs I use for parts on each job that is not standard,

I make a list of items on the rough and give it to the EI on final inspection.

I also use the same list to get non-stock items weeks before I need them


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> If I had the experiences you've had, I'd probably still take the trim boxes back to the shop. Luckily, for me, I never really have stuff left on-site damaged or walk off. Sure seems like it could, but that's not happening to me. I'm sorry that's happening to you.



If it doesn't end up missing, the box will be full of dry joint compound as the rockers use the boxes to clean their trowels. Or the painters will stuff old brushes and rollers covered with wet paint in them.

In any event, I just prevent the entire possibility and leave nothing but footprints. It's cheap insurance for me to know when I pull back into the driveway later, I have what I need to finish the job.... no trip to the supply house just to replace a fan trim.

But, like I'm sure you do, I do make a point to order anything unusual, like black or chrome can trims, etc.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If it doesn't end up missing, the box will be full of dry joint compound as the rockers use the boxes to clean their trowels. Or the painters will stuff old brushes and rollers covered with wet paint in them.
> 
> In any event, I just prevent the entire possibility and leave nothing but footprints. It's cheap insurance for me to know when I pull back into the driveway later, I have what I need to finish the job.... no trip to the supply house just to replace a fan trim.
> 
> But, like I'm sure you do, I do make a point to order anything unusual, like black or chrome can trims, etc.


And the plumber might take a dump in the box because it was in his way


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Your gonna have your guys waste more time walking around checking off lists and such. First day of a trim out you bring all the no brainers trims,devices,yada yada yada and make a list what to bring for the next day. Hanging lights and installing devices can keep a bunch of guys busy all day. Just have the lead guy make a list of what to bring and call it a day. Dont overthink it dude.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I would never try to leave something in the tub. The sheetrockers would toss it putting in greenrock around the tub.. I have yet to find an acceptable 'hiding spot' on a job site where I felt comfortable.
> 
> I used to leave the panel covers between the furnace & return air duct, but I had too many sprout legs. So I leave absolutely nothing on-site.


Guilty of the above.

Sheetrockers broke the lens for the shower lights,/ took the gaskets out of the lens cover.

Expensive mistake learned.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

480sparky said:


> But, like I'm sure you do, I do make a point to order anything unusual, like black or chrome can trims, etc.


Yeah, if it's something special-order, I pretty much order it as soon as the rough is done. Worst case, when it arrives far earlier than the trim-out, I just don't pick it up from the supply house and let them bug me about it 50 times. That way, it won't hit my account. I do pick the stuff up far enough ahead of time to check for concealed damage, though. 

I just picked up 13 special-ordered parabolic fluorescent fixtures with special ballasting, and one of them had a damaged reflector. Wouldn't you know. At least the reflector they can rob out of a stock parabolic fixture.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I will do a 'Punch' list after rough,then crab about what I missed,call home and say I'll be later than I thought.

Clean out the job and stock pile it for finish.
Re-load for finish...then P&M about that stupid little piece I forgot.
Drive back get it and let the lil' missus know.....

......I'll be later than I thought.

Oh well, I'm (we're) used to it now. Works for me.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I do the same thing. I write on the box NOT TRASH. DO NOT THROW AWAY. Sometimes, if theres an attic I'll throw all the trims into the attic and nobody messes with them


I do the same thing and I write NO Basura on them as well.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Usually I'm trimming out on my own so just like what was mentioned bring enough of whatever is needed and make my list as the day goes on for the items that are needed.


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## twisted bit (Apr 1, 2010)

Well iI have always been called a little odd by I do this kind of system you are talking about. I just count the type of boxes I used for the rough and the devices needed for the trimout, and write it on the door jamb when I strip out the room. Then after done sweeping just take a tablet and write down the material I need for the finish. I feel it makes things easier and faster at the end and I dont have to bring loads of extra material just what is needed.I'm one who likes tobe organized and this helps.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I imagine you could just look at your set of drawings and count up what you need when you're in the parking lot of the supply house in the morning.
:whistling2:


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

I never leave anything on the job, once I rough something in, I make a list and buy the finish material within a few days. I put everything for that job in one place, when it is ready to be finished I just load up the material and go.


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## PDX-SPARKY (Mar 5, 2010)

I will keep a pad of paper on me and whatever I use during rough in I will give to my JM. Not everyone has a list so when we do clean up, sometimes I will make a seperate list of items that will be needed for trim, then when my JM asks me can you think of anything else, and I say something that they all forgot about it makes me feel that much better.:thumbsup:

For fan trim and things that need to leave the job I put what I can in a box or leave it in the package it came in, write the name of the job and Job # and place on the shelf @ the shop.


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## Elec Tek (Jan 28, 2008)

Voltech said:


> We are having problems keeping track of the material needed to trim out a houses. Most the time I will just look at the prints and order the trim out materials, but there is always that one piece that is forgotten that is not on the truck. I was wondering what some other job mangers or owners did to keep this problem under control.
> 
> Im thinking of making a sheet that will list all things done at rough in. like
> 
> ...


I have a take-off sheet that I use that works pretty good and could email it to you if you give me an address. I dont like to over stock a trim kit because then my guy in the shop ends up having to restock the left over material or it ends up in getting destroyed. It is hard to get everything that is needed the first trip but when you go to the jobs that take to days it cuts down on the time to pull stock for guys.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Elec Tek said:


> I have a take-off sheet that I use that works pretty good and could email it to you if you give me an address. I dont like to over stock a trim kit because then my guy in the shop ends up having to restock the left over material or it ends up in getting destroyed. It is hard to get everything that is needed the first trip but when you go to the jobs that take to days it cuts down on the time to pull stock for guys.


You have a PM Thanks.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies. After digging in all the trucks this morning I found that the guys are not keeping much material on their trucks for these trim outs. I dont really want to use the "stock" material anyways. I want to keep that material separate from whats going to billed to that job. Its not that big of a deal from day to day, but in a year it can cost lots of money. If you do 150 houses a year and have to send someone to the SH to get something forgot on every job, you do the math. I think the time it would take to make a list (maybe not as detailed as my example in the OP) would pay for its self if I could prevent 3 trips. The other 146 saved trips would go in the green jar not the red :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Voltech said:


> Thanks for all the replies. After digging in all the trucks this morning I found that the guys are not keeping much material on their trucks for these trim outs. I dont really want to use the "stock" material anyways. I want to keep that material separate from whats going to billed to that job. Its not that big of a deal from day to day, but in a year it can cost lots of money. If you do 150 houses a year and have to send someone to the SH to get something forgot on every job, you do the math. I think the time it would take to make a list (maybe not as detailed as my example in the OP) would pay for its self if I could prevent 3 trips. The other 146 saved trips would go in the green jar not the red :thumbsup:


I don't get it. If you need 86 duplex receptacles to trim out a house, it shouldn't make any difference whether you order it from the supply house for that job, or whether it comes from the stock on the truck.

If I needed 86 receps, I'd buy 90 or 100, and put the left-overs on the van for service call work. If I miscounted, and really needed 106, I'd easily have 6 more on the van anyway.

I think you're going to spend a dollar in order to save a dime.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I don't get it. If you need 86 duplex receptacles to trim out a house, it shouldn't make any difference whether you order it from the supply house for that job, or whether it comes from the stock on the truck.
> 
> If I needed 86 receps, I'd buy 90 or 100, and put the left-overs on the van for service call work. If I miscounted, and really needed 106, I'd easily have 6 more on the van anyway.
> 
> I think you're going to spend a dollar in order to save a dime.


As I posted in the 1st post, the same guys dont always go back to do the trim out.

What I didnt post was. Not all guys have a truck full of material becuse of the verity of work we do with commercial and residential.

When we get the call that its ready for trim, we call the SH and send someone out when the material hits the job. depending on time, we sent someone then or the next day. Its just as easy for me to order from the prints and have sent to the job, than pay 2 guys to go the SH and get it. If we have 3 trim outs the next day and I have to send the guys 1st thing in the morning to the SH, I have 6 guys spending no less than 30 extra minutes, thats 3 man hours or 12 man hours a month, or 144 man hours a year. On avg @ 25 per man hour that's 3600 a year. Using the number 150 for the amount of Rough ins per year. If it takes 1 guy an extra 10 minutes to make a list per job @ 150 jobs per year that would only cost 630 per year saving 2970. I think its more like spending dimes to save dollars


My problem is more with wanting to know whats done and needed,not just what the prints say.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Voltech said:


> As I posted in the 1st post, the same guys dont always go back to do the trim out..............


Require the people who rough in to create a complete material list before they leave for the last time. If you consistently have people who cannot fill out a material list adequately, then explain to them the added costs of the inefficiency. 

A form is not necessary, at least not for me. I start out with a blank sheet, then start listing things. In the end, I have:

SP s
S3
S4
1g cover
2g cover
3g cover
Duplex
Duplex cover
GFCI
GFCI cover
15a Brkr
20a Brkr
30A 2-p Brkr
15a AFCI brkr
GFCI/toggle cover
Duplex/toggle cover
6" baffle
BR65

After each item, I use the chicken-scratch counting method (4 vertical marks, then a horizontal line when I reach the 5th item) Then before each item, I put the total in numerals.

Then my list would be:

18 SP s
6 S3
1 S4
26 1g cover
7 2g cover.......

If they have 86 duplexes, order 90 or 100. If there's extra at the end of the trip, roll them over to the next job or give them to the guys with service trucks. It's cheaper for the guys to haul $50 worth of extra stuff back to the shop than to send them to the supply house because they're short a cover plate.


Personally, I don't wait until the job calls to order the material. I get the stuff a day or two after rough, and put it all in plastic bins. This way, if there's some odd-ball thing (like a black GFCI recep and cover) that's not in stock, I have time to order it and get it in before the paint dries. When the call comes, I'm 100% ready to rock and roll.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

After rough on new construction I would never ever leave anything on a job. In a remodel situation where there may be a cabinet somewhere, I will choose this over taking it back to the shop.

When I did new construction there was a housing boom and we would trim out 5 houses a day. The trucks were loaded with plenty of extra devices and plates and each house had a specific fixture package. You have to have a degree of employee trust to keep stock on hand like this or you have to figure x amount of shrinkage.

It would only take 5 minutes to walk the house after rough and check mark the devices needed. I think this would be the most productive and effective wmethod. You stilll need a bit of overstock but it would be easy to keep a small amount in check.



> A form is not necessary, at least not for me.


A form is absolutely necessary, *especially* for his situation. Copies are about 3 cents each. He will spend that in about 2 seconds @ $60 per hour. The form also helps with consistancy. All items are logged in the same order and, even though you may not have every device listed in every house, just having it printed in front of you may make you remember "oh yeah...the 4 way switch we added".

A form like this is just like any other tool. You can get by without it but it makes things easier to have the right tool.

PS. Before you print up 1000 of them, field test some variations. Don't use "switch boxes installed" rather switches, 3w switches, 1, 2 3 and 4G covers. Don't forget device colors


And, ALWAYS avoid sending guys to the supply house. What a huge waste of time that is, huh?

If I were doing that much new resi construction, I would wharehouse at least a weeks worth of supplies. Suply houses out here are notorious for sending the wrong items and backordering other items. It's worth the money to have some stock on hand.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Your gonna have your guys waste more time walking around checking off lists and such


. 

I'm gonna have to seriously disagree with this. Even in a 3000 sq' house, It would take no more than 10 minutes to check some items on a list. 

Walk into one room and mark three hash marks for SP switches, 1 3G cover, 5 receps and 5 recep plates....30 seconds well spent. 



> First day of a trim out you bring all the no brainers trims,devices,yada yada yada and make a list what to bring for the next day


.

Why wait to make the list? You know exactly what you need when you are done roughing?





> Just have the lead guy make a list of what to bring and call it a day.


ExACTly:thumbup:






In the olden days, a two man crew would trim out *five/six* 1500' tract houses a day. Granted there were no ceiling fans, recessed cans, smokies, telco and cable. In fact, there was just a cord hanging in the middle of the cave.

We'd walk thru the house carrying a bin loaded with all the devices and plates and drop the stuff at each opening. The stuff was layed out in just a few minutes. The new guy installed the receps and the Jman installed the switches and fixtures.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

My old days from Jay Wanerka, the rough in mechanic responsibility included a take off list for total devices, fixtures, plates, breakers, etc. . Shop foreman would have this take off order pulled for the final. fan grills, panel covers would return to shop to get labeled and sto'd for later. Trucks would stock two of everything for emergency or repair calls. System worked pretty good.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

Cleaned out all the trucks (8-2 resi 6 commerical today to inventory material. He are some things I found:

120v 20 amp breaker AFCI 41
same as above GFCI...32
15 amp 4 ways....25
15 amp 3 ways a five gal bucket full
100 amp 2 pole breakers...12
120v 3 way toggle dimmers...25

Made it real easy to pitch my idea about about a list after rough in


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## arni19 (Nov 20, 2009)

When i show up at rough ins or trim outs i show up with a wack of things that you use in every house, you cant finish in 1 day, make a list at the end of day 1 of the specialty items you didnt bring. Show up on day 2 kicker in high gear and make some $$$.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

arni19 said:


> When i show up at rough ins or trim outs i show up with a wack of things that you use in every house, you cant finish in 1 day, make a list at the end of day 1 of the specialty items you didnt bring. Show up on day 2 kicker in high gear and make some $$$.



Hard to "Make some $$$" on day 2 of a trim out..


JMHO


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Voltech said:


> Hard to "Make some $$$" on day 2 of a trim out..
> 
> 
> JMHO


Maybe on a little house that rightfully should have taken only 1 day. He's talking about trim-outs that he knows ahead of time will take more than one day. Heck, I've been on resi trim-outs that have taken weeks. Usually, they're also the one's with God-forsaken light fixtures.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm part of the "bring a sh!tpile" and don't over think it team.

Unless it's a shed bungalow you are gonna be there more than one day, make a list at the end of the 1st day and your golden.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Maybe on a little house that rightfully should have taken only 1 day. He's talking about trim-outs that he knows ahead of time will take more than one day. Heck, I've been on resi trim-outs that have taken weeks. Usually, they're also the one's with God-forsaken light fixtures.


I did a fancy shmancy beach house here with a few chandeliers shipped over from Italy, they held up the finish for months and arrived with some of the crystals missing. The homeowner called up the lighting company and guess who they blamed the missing crystals on.......

Luckily the homeowner was right next to me when I opened the shipping crates.


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## electricalmarket (Apr 8, 2010)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I'm part of the "bring a sh!tpile" and don't over think it team.
> 
> Unless it's a shed bungalow you are gonna be there more than one day, make a list at the end of the 1st day and your golden.


I can definitely relate to that... There's no such thing as a quickie.


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