# Color code for switch leg.



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Is there one?

I never heard of one, and I don't see it in the book. 

A belligerent guy at work was raving about the light whips being the same color as the circuit even though it's just the leg, and that it "should" be purple. 

Then another guy was trying to say that the leg doesn't have to be purple, but it _has_ to be a different color from the circuit wire, which I think is ridiculous too, considering if you're using MC or romex.

I made the case that the only code requirements as far as wire color that I know off are the grounded, grounding, and high leg wires. All of our legs are marked on both ends with a letter sticker anyway.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The NEC only cares if you are using a white conductor as a switch loop.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

dont use green, white or grey and youre fine. Remember - out on white, back on black.


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

Gotta love those guys at work who are sure they know what they are talking about.

I've never even seen purple wire before. lol Not that it doesn't exist, but to say it MUST be purple? Obviously crazy dude or trying to mess with you.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

FastFokker said:


> Gotta love those guys at work who are sure they know what they are talking about.
> 
> I've never even seen purple wire before. lol Not that it doesn't exist, but to say it MUST be purple? Obviously crazy dude or trying to mess with you.


there is purple AND pink thhn in the states... I have a roll of both on my shelf in the garage.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

FastFokker said:


> Gotta love those guys at work who are sure they know what they are talking about.
> 
> I've never even seen purple wire before. lol Not that it doesn't exist, but to say it MUST be purple? Obviously crazy dude or trying to mess with you.


Brown Purple Yellow In quite a few places


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## Sunny 1 (May 11, 2012)

FastFokker said:


> Gotta love those guys at work who are sure they know what they are talking about.
> 
> I've never even seen purple wire before. lol Not that it doesn't exist, but to say it MUST be purple? Obviously crazy dude or trying to mess with you.


We use purple thhn for exit signs. No requirement, just the way my comp does things


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## FastFokker (Sep 18, 2012)

If I had such wonderful colour (color in NEC) choices, I would exclusively wire in pink, purple and white! :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If the building has more than one nominal voltage system then the ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit shall be identified by a phase or line and system at al terminals, connections and splice joints. This system of marking for the different voltages must be identified where the branch circuit originates. this in in the 2011 in art. 210.5


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Now, lets take it a step further. Where does a circuit end, does it end at the switch or does it end at the light fixture being switched? Lets say you have 277v lighting and ran a brown ckt #1, does brown have to be pulled to the light fixture or can orange? :whistling2:


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

360max said:


> Now, lets take it a step further. Where does a circuit end, does it end at the switch or does it end at the light fixture being switched? Lets say you have 277v lighting and ran a brown ckt #1, does brown have to be pulled to the light fixture or can orange? :whistling2:


The circuit ends at the switch when the switch is off, at the light when switch is on! LOL!


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## Sunny 1 (May 11, 2012)

360max said:


> Now, lets take it a step further. Where does a circuit end, does it end at the switch or does it end at the light fixture being switched? Lets say you have 277v lighting and ran a brown ckt #1, does brown have to be pulled to the light fixture or can orange? :whistling2:


I would say u could pull orange


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

360max said:


> Now, lets take it a step further. Where does a circuit end, does it end at the switch or does it end at the light fixture being switched? Lets say you have 277v lighting and ran a brown ckt #1, does brown have to be pulled to the light fixture or can orange? :whistling2:



I'd say the circuit 'ends' at the utility's generator.


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## Sunny 1 (May 11, 2012)

I would never pull the same color as the circuit. Ive never saw anyone pull the same color


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

480sparky said:


> I'd say the circuit 'ends' at the utility's generator.


...yea, but thats only one end...


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

360max said:


> ...yea, but thats only one end...


And it's darn close to the other 'end'.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

360max said:


> Now, lets take it a step further. Where does a circuit end, does it end at the switch or does it end at the light fixture being switched? Lets say you have 277v lighting and ran a brown ckt #1, does brown have to be pulled to the light fixture or can orange? :whistling2:


Do they make fixture whips with grey and brown conductors?


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Do they make fixture whips with grey and brown conductors?


:yes::yes:


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## k_buz (Mar 12, 2012)

4 wire network feeding three separate receptacles on the same wall. Pipe over and drop down with 12/2 MC? Fail?


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

It's all a design choice. It's nice if you can 'pull' wires of your choice; if you're using MC, NM, or any other cable, you're stuck with what they give you.

For example .... commercial jobs often require room lights to be switched to two different 'lighting levels.' IOW, two light switches. There's a few different ways to do this, and it's common for the customer to change his mind halfway through the job. So ....

I like to do my switch legs (or travelers) in two different colors. That way I know, at the box, which switch I'm hooking to. 

I'll often use pink for the switch legs if the circuit is powered by a red wire, and purple if the circuit is powered by a blue wire. Just as an example; it's just to make things easier for me.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Amish Electrician said:


> It's all a design choice. It's nice if you can 'pull' wires of your choice; if you're using MC, NM, or any other cable, you're stuck with what they give you.


If there is more than one voltage sytem in the building you still have to identify those conductors by phase and voltage and post the method used at each panel. If the posted method says you are making the required phase and voltage identification by using the inslulation color, then you will have to special order the correct colors. 


> ...
> I'll often use pink for the switch legs if the circuit is powered by a red wire, and purple if the circuit is powered by a blue wire. Just as an example; it's just to make things easier for me.


 Same thing applies here. In buildings with more than one voltage system, these conductors must be identified by phase and voltage and the method of identification must be posted at each panel.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

I'll often have the men ring the wire with the appropriate phase color as well as mark 5" box with the circuit number. The extra second it takes doesn't cause unnecessary time and makes it easier for the next guy. But the general consensus is pretty standard...stick to different colors for travelers, and while you CAN order tails with the proper phasing colors...it's rare to get them. Southwire makes MC...of all flavors...in every color combination for the jobs that required matching colors to the device or luminaire.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

FWIW if the building has two or more voltage systems the branch circuit conductors are required to be identified by phase and system. Switch-legs are part of the branch circuit and as such are required to be identified.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Correct and unfortunately too many times that's overlooked by PM's or engineers who ALWAYS seem to know more than us. Gotta love the kids out of college who try to quote us Code yet have no clue what it means. 

It's a problem...and one that will never go away. It doesn't matter where you live.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

I do 3 or 4 yr long commercial jobs with multiple voltage systems and we have all the colors of mc. Since we have all the colors it doesn't make sense to not use the right/same color.

It's easier then labeling everything tho I am big into labeling. I try and avoid counting on the stickers tho I use them sometimes. Much easier to mark the box and use the same color.


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

FastFokker said:


> If I had such wonderful colour (color in NEC) choices, I would exclusively wire in pink, purple and white! :laughing:


I read this whole thread and was wondering about all the different colors they use in the US. What ever happened to good ol red black blue??


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

Rochsolid said:


> I read this whole thread and was wondering about all the different colors they use in the US. What ever happened to good ol red black blue??


That's the kind of stuff that I have learned here at ET...Things are done all different ways around the world. Piping in houses? Who would have known? Purple wire??? well dang!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

cultch said:


> I do 3 or 4 yr long commercial jobs with multiple voltage systems and we have all the colors of mc. Since we have all the colors it doesn't make sense to not use the right/same color.
> 
> It's easier then labeling everything tho I am big into labeling. I try and avoid counting on the stickers tho I use them sometimes. Much easier to mark the box and use the same color.


We have tried having the right colors of MC available but it becomes ridiculous. 

12/2 white/black, white/red, white/blue, gray/brown, gray/orange, gray yellow. now 12/3, 12/4, 10/2, 3 and 4. it just gets nuts.

We remark with tape and identify the j-boxes with the circuit info.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> We have tried having the right colors of MC available but it becomes ridiculous.
> 
> 12/2 white/black, white/red, white/blue, gray/brown, gray/orange, gray yellow. now 12/3, 12/4, 10/2, 3 and 4. it just gets nuts.
> 
> We remark with tape and identify the j-boxes with the circuit info.


Isn't that illegal re-taping #12 with new colors?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> Isn't that illegal re-taping #12 with new colors?


:no:

We are talking about ungrounded conductors



> *210.5(C)(2) Means of Identification. *The means of identification
> shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking
> tape, tagging, or other approved means.


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## cultch (Aug 2, 2011)

BBQ said:


> We have tried having the right colors of MC available but it becomes ridiculous.
> 
> 12/2 white/black, white/red, white/blue, gray/brown, gray/orange, gray yellow. now 12/3, 12/4, 10/2, 3 and 4. it just gets nuts.
> 
> We remark with tape and identify the j-boxes with the circuit info.


I do all the lighting. I'm pretty sure the power guys just use blk/white for their mc whips regardless of phase. 

I have 12-2 brn, org, yel and 10-2 brn, org, yel. That's all I use. With these new lighting systems (LV switching) not much need for the 3 conductor wire. I do have to stock all the lv wire too tho...pita but there is just 3 differnet kinds we use for that.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Cletis said:


> Isn't that illegal re-taping #12 with new colors?


No. It's a cable assembly. You are allowed to remark AC/MC/NM cable. Just leave the white, gray, greens alone.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

icefalkon said:


> No. It's a cable assembly. You are allowed to remark AC/MC/NM cable. Just leave the white, gray, greens alone.


I've always done it anyhow, I thought I was breaking the rules. I'm very disappointed now


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

BBQ said:


> :no:
> 
> We are talking about ungrounded conductors



Here we use the 2008 with Amendments...we don't have the (2) that the 2011 has for subsection C.

I think that's something that absolutely should be acceptable everywhere.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

icefalkon said:


> Here we use the 2008 with Amendments...we don't have the (2) that the 2011 has for subsection C.
> 
> I think that's something that absolutely should be acceptable everywhere.


From about the middle of 210.5(C) of the 2008 NEC




> The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate
> color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved
> means.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> From about the middle of 210.5(C) of the 2008 NEC


What about a permanent fine tip sharpie?? I've been re-color coding some circuits lately with one?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> What about a permanent fine tip sharpie?? I've been re-color coding some circuits lately with one?


Don't you want to save that for writing your name on your finger?


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

You're right Bob, I didn't see that. I am corrected. But the section is clearly for where there is more than one nominal voltage system. By recoloring Black to Blue...that is within the same voltage system. Therefore when ran in conduit...you are to run the proper colors for the phasing. 

However if you are using a cable assembly you are permitted to change the colors accordingly. 

Am I wrong here?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Don't you want to save that for writing your name on your finger?


I meant my orange, brown, red, blue. I have plenty of those. Can't keep enough of the black though


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## Rochsolid (Aug 9, 2012)

cultch said:


> That's the kind of stuff that I have learned here at ET...Things are done all different ways around the world. Piping in houses? Who would have known? Purple wire??? well dang!


HAhaha it's nice to see how it's done in different parts of the world or even the country


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> What about a permanent fine tip sharpie?? I've been re-color coding some circuits lately with one?





Cletis said:


> I meant my orange, brown, red, blue. I have plenty of those. Can't keep enough of the black though


You may want to look at this 




> 210.5(C)(2) Means of Identification. The means of identification
> shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking
> tape, tagging, or other approved means.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> You may want to look at this


Yeah, I saw that. Is a permanant sharpie and "approved means"? If not, what are all the approved means to re-identify conductors ?? I only know of tape and maybe a sharpie


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

And while were on the subject. What about the handicapped?? I mean, I know alot of people are color blind? What about them? Should they be denied a job because of this? Are their any other types of identifying for the handicapped (color blind) ??


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Cletis said:


> And while were on the subject. What about the handicapped?? I mean, I know alot of people are color blind? What about them? Should they be denied a job because of this? Are their any other types of identifying for the handicapped (color blind) ??


Maybe it should be in braille for the blind also... :jester:


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Cletis said:


> And while were on the subject. What about the handicapped?? I mean, I know alot of people are color blind? What about them? Should they be denied a job because of this? Are their any other types of identifying for the handicapped (color blind) ??


Dangerous subject....

My best friend was a machinist who I brought into my shop when I was a contractor. He is color blind. Now years later he's worked his way up to General Foreman and runs a crew of great guys. Even color blind electricians can succeed.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Maybe it should be in braille for the blind also... :jester:


I wouldn't be suprised if California pushes for that. Anyhow, what are these *"other approved means"* I keep seeing?? Other than tape, paint/markers, tagging ???


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Colorblind just need different shades of grey.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Numbered stickers can be used instead of coloring, as long as it is the identified system starting at the source panels and used throughout.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

icefalkon said:


> You're right Bob, I didn't see that. I am corrected. But the section is clearly for where there is more than one nominal voltage system. By recoloring Black to Blue...that is within the same voltage system. Therefore when ran in conduit...you are to run the proper colors for the phasing.
> 
> However if you are using a cable assembly you are permitted to change the colors accordingly.
> 
> Am I wrong here?


Code wise I don't see a difference in the rules between cable assemblies or pipe and wire for ungrounded conductors. In other words you could pull three orange conductors and tape them red, black and blue at the terminations.

Not my first choice for sure but I do not believe a code violation.

Keep in mind we are not required to use colors at all, we are allowed to tag them _1, 2, 3_, or _A, B, C,_ or even_ Fonzi, 972, X_ we just have to post a legend at the panels.


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

I agree. Con Edison...contrary to common belief doesn't use color a color schema per se'. They simply use A-B-C N. We translate that historically to black, red, blue or brown, orange, yellow. 

I think that is something that should be clarified...whether is is ok to change the color of a conductor with marking tape. As far as my research has shown...the NEC addresses and places more importance on the grounded and grounding conductors in this regard. This is something that comes up all the time. No you cannot tape a green wire and make it a black wire. No you cannot tape a white or gray wire except for use as a switch leg (200.7(C)(2). But you're right Bob...here in NYC we teach the kids to use proper colors when running conduit and only to use marking tape when absolutely necessary. I think our training should be modified to inform the apprentices that this is a Standard and not Code. However...it does often show up in job Specs. 

Code first

Specs second

Standards third


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BBQ said:


> FWIW if the building has two or more voltage systems the branch circuit conductors are required to be identified by phase and system. Switch-legs are part of the branch circuit and as such are required to be identified.


if it comes in from the poco as 480, and enters a CT cabinet then out to a transformer, gets stepped down to 120/240 and 100% of the load is from the transformer, is that considered 1 or 2 voltage systems?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> if it comes in from the poco as 480, and enters a CT cabinet then out to a transformer, gets stepped down to 120/240 and 100% of the load is from the transformer, is that considered 1 or 2 voltage systems?


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Ehhh I don't know about that Bob...

If the 480 is not used anywhere but to feed the building, it is not a branch circuit. 210.5 says where the premise has *branch circuits *supplied from more than one nominal voltage...

In his case, the 480 is a feeder, not a branch circuit.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Jurisdiction I work for has adopted a color code in the local amendments.
Black, Red, Blue, White --> 120/208
Brown, Orange, Yellow, Gray --> 277/480

If your using MC for 277 lighting you must use the correct color MC as well - NO taping.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Code wise I don't see a difference in the rules between cable assemblies or pipe and wire for ungrounded conductors. In other words you could pull three orange conductors and tape them red, black and blue at the terminations.
> 
> Not my first choice for sure but I do not believe a code violation.
> 
> Keep in mind we are not required to use colors at all, we are allowed to tag them 1, 2, 3, or A, B, C, or even Fonzi, 972, X we just have to post a legend at the panels.


So, basically i could identify by label / tag the system below as follows

120/208v system

A = Tom
B = ****
C = Harry

277/480v

A = Peter d
B = BBQ
C = B4T

???


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Cletis said:


> So, basically i could identify by label / tag the system below as follows
> 
> 120/208v system
> 
> ...


Yup.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

BBQ said:


> ...
> Keep in mind we are not required to use colors at all, we are allowed to tag them _1, 2, 3_, or _A, B, C,_ or even_ Fonzi, 972, X_ we just have to post a legend at the panels.


And if you are using the insulation color for the general identification, and re-marking when you don't have the correct insulation color, you must state both methods at the panel legend.


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## kf5aeo (Dec 4, 2011)

my panels (of coarse are all motor control panels) consist of brown,orange yellow for 480 All constant hots (and the N.O. contact of phase monitor feeding HOA) are black red is hand and anything controlling auto is blue.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

icefalkon said:


> I agree. Con Edison...contrary to common belief doesn't use color a color schema per se'. They simply use A-B-C N. We translate that historically to black, red, blue or brown, orange, yellow.
> 
> I think that is something that should be clarified...whether is is ok to change the color of a conductor with marking tape. As far as my research has shown...the NEC addresses and places more importance on the grounded and grounding conductors in this regard. This is something that comes up all the time. No you cannot tape a green wire and make it a black wire. No you cannot tape a white or gray wire except for use as a switch leg (200.7(C)(2). But you're right Bob...here in NYC we teach the kids to use proper colors when running conduit and only to use marking tape when absolutely necessary. I think our training should be modified to inform the apprentices that this is a Standard and not Code. However...it does often show up in job Specs.
> 
> ...


Icefalkon.,

I know one of my freind he work in one of the POCO ( EDF ) and he have one surefire trick is use the numbers of band ( used electrique tape ) so one band is phase A , two band Phase B , three bands for Phase C that work very well espcally if you have colour blinded person or working semi dark area and you can feel the conductors ( only if the circuit or system is complety off or used rated lineman glove to feel the bumps )

Merci,
Marc


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## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> Icefalkon.,
> 
> I know one of my freind he work in one of the POCO ( EDF ) and he have one surefire trick is use the numbers of band ( used electrique tape ) so one band is phase A , two band Phase B , three bands for Phase C that work very well espcally if you have colour blinded person or working semi dark area and you can feel the conductors ( only if the circuit or system is complety off or used rated lineman glove to feel the bumps )
> 
> ...


Hey Marc,

Yes we see that all the time. Especially in the last 10yrs or so. I don't know if it's specifically for color blind electricians lol or for their own identification. I can't see Con Edison of NY really giving a rats ass about anyone with a handicap. Thanks for the info though!!


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

icefalkon said:


> Hey Marc,
> 
> Yes we see that all the time. Especially in the last 10yrs or so. I don't know if it's specifically for color blind electricians lol or for their own identification. I can't see Con Edison of NY really giving a rats ass about anyone with a handicap. Thanks for the info though!!


The main reason why they went band instead of colour tape due the colour tape can faded out over the time while the black tape ( useally 33+ or 88 super ) will last much longer and it don't fade out over the time so many other POCO learn that trick and I did learn that some time back so I did use once a while ditto with colour band when you run mulit parallel conductors. 

That part I did was really a livesaver due twice I have to disconnect one of the parallel conductor ( fault caused by a supid dolt ran a pipe without checking the plans ) and I can able pinpoint the correct one in hurry.

Merci,
Marc


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> dont use green, white or grey and youre fine. Remember - out on white, back on black.


This is how I was taught to do it. I'm really strict about doing it this way. Not many people that do it this way can explain why.

I always tell guys it's that way because... if your going to use the white as an ungrounded conductor it needs to be hot all the time. Not just when the switch is on.

How would you teach this?

Also I only do this when I have to never by my choice or design.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Question - as I don't know... What about Teck Cable? Can you order Or/Br/Yl teck for motor feeds? Or do you use Rd/Bk/Bl? Use Rd/Bk/Bl and tape them? Just wondering..


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

BBQ said:


>


peace man, thx for the clarification.:laughing:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

icefalkon said:


> Ehhh I don't know about that Bob...
> 
> If the 480 is not used anywhere but to feed the building, it is not a branch circuit. 210.5 says where the premise has *branch circuits *supplied from more than one nominal voltage...
> 
> In his case, the 480 is a feeder, not a branch circuit.


uh oh, I agree, the 480 from the poco isnt a branch, and lets say there isnt a 480 panel with any branch circuits.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Sunny 1 said:


> *We use purple thhn for exit signs*. No requirement, just the way my comp does things


...and their probable installing a code violation doing so, 99% of the time.


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## 347sparky (May 14, 2012)

BBQ said:


> Code wise I don't see a difference in the rules between cable assemblies or pipe and wire for ungrounded conductors. In other words you could pull three orange conductors and tape them red, black and blue at the terminations.
> 
> Not my first choice for sure but I do not believe a code violation.
> 
> Keep in mind we are not required to use colors at all, we are allowed to tag them _1, 2, 3_, or _A, B, C,_ or even_ Fonzi, 972, X_ we just have to post a legend at the panels.


 
How about Fonzie, Potsie and Ralph Malph?


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Cletis said:


> I wouldn't be suprised if California pushes for that. Anyhow, what are these *"other approved means"* I keep seeing?? Other than tape, paint/markers, tagging ???


 ...if I have two black wires, can I tie a knot in one of the wires to identify it, Cletis? Hurry with your answer, you know the fiscal cliff is coming.


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