# Ground rods



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Nope, nadda, zip, zilch, _not legal_. :no:

You have to dig a trench when rock bottom is encountered and if driving them at up to a 45 degree angle won't cut it, lay `em horizontal. See 250.53(G) :blink:

According to the scarecrow theorem, a 45 degree angle would still leave 16" sticking out of the ground, so a 30" or deeper trench installation would be your only remedy.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> You have to dig a trench when rock bottom is encountered and if driving them at up to a 45 degree angle won't cut it, lay `em horizontal. See 250.53(G) :blink:


Yeah right and how many EC's do you think will do that.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Where in the code book does it say its ok for 2-56" rods?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Where in the code book does it say its ok for 2-56" rods?



I bet he would also need 2 --- 8' rods to begin with.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yeah right and how many EC's do you think will do that.


 I've had to do it several times. Works great.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I bet he would also need 2 --- 8' rods to begin with.


I Agree.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I Agree.


So he needs 4- 56" rods. :laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I've had to do it several times. Works great.



I have also but not many will bother.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> So he needs 4- 56" rods. :laughing:


 3--56" rods and one 24".:laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I've done the ol' bend it at 24" and lay the rest in a ditch.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> I've done the ol' bend it at 24" and lay the rest in a ditch.


 I've tore up a old bender that way once.:laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I've done the ol' bend it at 24" and lay the rest in a ditch.


 I was at a job during the excavation, many years ago, and I dropped the rod in the eight foot ditch that was outside the house near the footer and attached my wire to it. They back filled it 8' down and when I set the meter my wire was waiting there for me.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I was at a job during the excavation, many years ago, and I dropped the rod in the eight foot ditch that was outside the house near the footer and attached my wire to it. They back filled it 8' down and when I set the meter my wire was waiting there for me.


 Those would have to be the easiest ground rods you have ever installed.:thumbup:


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## RTurgeon (Jul 8, 2009)

Earth ground tester?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

RTurgeon said:


> Earth ground tester?


 He would still need to get one 8" rod in first and hope he's less than 25 ohms.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I've gotten to where I drive them in at 45 degrees to begin with. Easier to start the hammer drill on top, with no stepladder needed. 

Yeah, I've done the old "put them in the rest of the way with a Sawzall" trick too sometimes. :whistling2:


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

I knew it wasn't right, I only put one ground rod and it always passes inspection. On new construction with plastic water sevices I put 2.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Doesnt it make sense to terminate the ground rods in the Meter pan? why do so many inspectors "tweak" out when you mention it to them...? Correct me if im wrong but cant you even bring it to the service head if you wanted to ?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm trying to remember why we did it. It was in the dead of winter and it was freezing cold. I was wiring townhouses and I guess the excavator could only dig so deep in such cold temperatures. I remember the POCO guys sitting in their truck most of the day and got out and did something each day for about 15 minutes. We used to play pretend basketball with a ball of electrical tape in the great rooms.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Doesnt it make sense to terminate the ground rods in the Meter pan? why do so many inspectors "tweak" out when you mention it to them...? Correct me if im wrong but cant you even bring it to the service head if you wanted to ?


You can certainly connect the gec at the weatherhead if you like, but most POCOs don't want the gec in with the service.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Yeah.... those power company guys get thrown a curveball and they don't what to do. :laughing:


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## Larry Fine (Oct 24, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> . . . when I set the meter my wire was waiting there for me.


That must have been before the Great Copper-theft Era.


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## Larry Fine (Oct 24, 2007)

captkirk said:


> Doesnt it make sense to terminate the ground rods in the Meter pan?


I wish we could, but it's the POCO, not the AHJ, who won't allow it.

That creates a big vacuum, too, because it's sich a great place for it.


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## guschash (Jul 8, 2007)

Around here some counties want it terminated in the meter others want it in the service panel. The meters I am getting have the terminal for the wire so I having been just putting there.


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## Safety-Guy (Jan 22, 2007)

I dealt with one AHJ that wanted the it to terminate in the meter, pass thru and also terminate in the MDP. When I asked about it I got the "Because that is the way I want it".


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## Article 90.1 (Feb 14, 2009)

Easiest ground rod ever: Newark Airport runway 10' 5/8" ground rod 5 seconds! Of course, I had help from the Operating Engineer and his track hoe bucket.

Toughest ground rod ever: Every single street light and hand hole at the I-287 exits for Mt. Airy Rd. Clay and Rock, if you have worked in that area, you know what I'm talking about.

Where I'm living now, some utilities want GEC in meter pan, some to weather head, and some want UFER only on new construction. UFER has caused a lot of problems, because a lot of times there is no EC when the footings are being poured. However, I have learned a neat trick: Bend rebar up into what will be a wall and during rough put a 2 gang lv. ring or eq. on the adjoining stud, then you will have access to the GEC if you ever need it. Oh yeah, paint it green or something too so someone doesn't cut it off!


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Safety-Guy said:


> "Because that is the way I want it".


 Thats Bull ****.:no: What is this guy on a ego trip?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Safety-Guy said:


> I dealt with one AHJ that wanted the it to terminate in the meter, pass thru and also terminate in the MDP. When I asked about it I got the "Because that is the way I want it".


What size service what size grounded conductor and what size grounding conductor. Parallel neutral (grounded conductor) with different size conductors.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Article 90.1 said:


> Toughest ground rod ever: Every single street light and hand hole at the I-287 exits for Mt. Airy Rd. Clay and Rock, if you have worked in that area, you know what I'm talking about.


Attach a ground wire to the grid in the sonotubes and you will never need to drive another ground rod for a light pole again.



> However, I have learned a neat trick: Bend rebar up into what will be a wall and during rough put a 2 gang lv. ring or eq. on the adjoining stud, then you will have access to the GEC if you ever need it. Oh yeah, paint it green or something too so someone doesn't cut it off!


I thought I invented that trick.


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## Safety-Guy (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> What size service what size grounded conductor and what size grounding conductor. Parallel neutral (grounded conductor) with different size conductors.


150A, ran 2/0 and #4 ground. Was a mobile home service.


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## ralph (Apr 6, 2008)

90 % of the rods here I drive barehanded( 6 or 7 feet anyway). Sand, all sand. Grab the s swing and tap it home. ive never tested them , but I bet they wouldnt test very well.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

ralph said:


> 90 % of the rods here I drive barehanded( 6 or 7 feet anyway). Sand, all sand. Grab the s swing and tap it home. ive never tested them , but I bet they wouldnt test very well.


You might be surprised if there is salt in that sand.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

ralph said:


> 90 % of the rods here I drive barehanded( 6 or 7 feet anyway). Sand, all sand. Grab the s swing and tap it home. ive never tested them , but I bet they wouldnt test very well.


 I wonder how long those rods last in that environment?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

(Toughest ground rod ever: Every single street light and hand hole at the I-287 exits for Mt. Airy Rd. Clay and Rock, if you have worked in that area, you know what I'm talking about.)

The Mountain part of Mt Airy Road is what tipped me off that it might be a pita.

I had similar problems driving ground rods in a town called Glen Rock, NJ.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I was pounding away on a ground rod with the big ol' Hilti, when I was about three feet from done, I took a break, and found out the damn rod had actually curled and came out behind me! Ye, it was sticking out of the ground behind me at about a 20 degree angle. Never seen it before or since.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I wonder how long those rods last in that environment?


I did a job for a friend 25 years ago in Pawley's Island, SC and they made me use copper rods and 10 foot long as well as rigid pipe for the temp. pole (NO pvc).


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> I was pounding away on a ground rod with the big ol' Hilti, when I was about three feet from done, I took a break, and found out the damn rod had actually curled and came out behind me! Ye, it was sticking out of the ground behind me at about a 20 degree angle. Never seen it before or since.


I have had that happen .


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

brian john said:


> I have had that happen .


Me too. I just forgot my camera that day.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> I was pounding away on a ground rod with the big ol' Hilti, when I was about three feet from done, I took a break, and found out the damn rod had actually curled and came out behind me! Ye, it was sticking out of the ground behind me at about a 20 degree angle. Never seen it before or since.


I've seen them curl into a "U". A trackhoe was digging up our old temporaries when we were finishing a job, all the rods were curled. I also had them dig up a ground grid because they can’t read a print, a lot of those rods had curled too. These were 3/4 copper clad, not cheap 1/2 of 5/8 rods.


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