# Installing a ceiling fan to a 1" thick wood support beam? Solved.



## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Was the ceiling rated box already there, and are you another electrician coming in to install these fans or are you a part of the original contractor, and if a 1/2" piece of plywood can support a 180lb man. Then its most likely 5/8" can support 50lbs (weight of larger fans), if the contractors put a rated box there then its most likely intended for that purpose. Are you an electrician or a DIYer


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

.


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## Viggmundir (Sep 13, 2019)

You seriously want to try to hang a fan off of a pan box???    And too many wires in it to boot.


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## Metersocket648 (Feb 8, 2021)

Viggmundir said:


> You seriously want to try to hang a fan off of a pan box???    And too many wires in it to boot.


Oof, there's an image?? It won't load for me, if its a pan box, then don't even bother, I smell DIY


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

Metersocket648 said:


> Was the ceiling rated box already there, and are you another electrician coming in to install these fans or are you a part of the original contractor, and if a 1/2" piece of plywood can support a 180lb man. Then its most likely 5/8" can support 50lbs (weight of larger fans), if the contractors put a rated box there then its most likely intended for that purpose. Are you an electrician or a DIYer


Thank you for your reply. I am an electrical contractor. I have been working in northern California since 2005. The reason why I am asking for more information on this subject is that I see this kind of stuff all the time, but there is a very dark grey area up here as far as what is acceptable and what is not. The inspectors seem to pass just about everything, and usually make it a habit to only do the final inspection, which in most cases is a walk to the front door to issue the pass to whoever answers it.

I am not trying to mess with anyone's livelihood. I just want to try to help my community and myself by giving good advice. Potential customers often get upset when I turn down a job, so I try to gather as much information as I can so that I can better explain why I don't want to do it. You know the usual ones, where another guy does the work, and then they call in the Licensed guy to finish it. I try to avoid doing that.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

Viggmundir said:


> You seriously want to try to hang a fan off of a pan box???    And too many wires in it to boot.


Well I can see from the image that it is a ceiling fan rated pan box, but yes in only has 5.9 cubic inches available, and I can see from the image that 10 cubic inches needed.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

Thank you for the replies.

I do not do residential installation anymore, and have not for about 12 years. Back when I was doing it, we would always mount wood supports for fans vertical. I see that they used a treated 2x6 here and it looks like they tried really hard to make it look nice. I just don't want to pick apart the way they did it if most others would do the same. (Other than the over box fill situation of course, and whatever else is unknown, sight unseen).


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

I've seen a lot worse issues. It's not to code but would the fan burn up or fall down - no.


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## mofos be cray (Nov 14, 2016)

What's with the hood off to the right in the pic?
Also it looks like they're going to close in the ceiling area in which case your box should come level to the edge of the finished wall. Also I would hog out more of the 2x6 and install a real box the I'd heavy up the 2x6 on the back side.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If it’s a fan rated box, move your splices to the T, hang the fan and take the rest of the day off.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Just move the treated 2x6 up a couple of inches and mount an approved fan box. It looks like the box in the photo is only supported by the PVC. It's hard to tell by looking at the photo.


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## Viggmundir (Sep 13, 2019)

Brighton said:


> Well I can see from the image that it is a ceiling fan rated pan box, but yes in only has 5.9 cubic inches available, and I can see from the image that 10 cubic inches needed.


A ceiling fan rated pan box? Hmmm I've never seen one before. I wonder if we have them in Canada. Learned something new.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Brighton said:


> Thank you for your reply. I am an electrical contractor. I have been working in northern California since 2005.


How about your profile then?

*Required Profile*
IMPORTANT: Required Profile Fields

Thanks


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## dspiffy (Nov 25, 2013)

They make fan rated boxes now that I am less comfortable with than a standard non-fan metal octagon box.

I agree, hang the fans and move on. Unless they bought really high end outdoor fans, there's a good chance the fans will need to be replaced long before there are any issues with water getting in.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

Is there a red wire taped white and being used as a neutral? Hard to tell, but it looks like it.  

I think the blocking will support 50 pounds.


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## samgregger (Jan 23, 2013)

oldsparky52 said:


> Is there a red wire taped white and being used as a neutral? Hard to tell, but it looks like it.
> 
> I think the blocking will support 50 pounds.


I'll wager 200lbs, if I know framers with an air nailer, they probably shot 20 nails into that 2x6, and a fan isn't going to sheer it off.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

Viggmundir said:


> A ceiling fan rated pan box? Hmmm I've never seen one before. I wonder if we have them in Canada. Learned something new.


Raco makes them. There are other brands out there too.









4 in. Round Ceiling Rated Fan Pan, 1/2 in. Depth, Five 1/2 in. KO's | 295 | Raco


4 in. Round Ceiling Rated Fan Pan, 1/2 in. Depth, Five 1/2 in. KO's




www.hubbell.com


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

99cents said:


> If it’s a fan rated box, move your splices to the T, hang the fan and take the rest of the day off.


Good point. 
I hate finding splices in conduit bodies though.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

oldsparky52 said:


> Is there a red wire taped white and being used as a neutral? Hard to tell, but it looks like it.
> 
> I think the blocking will support 50 pounds.


Yes, I saw that. That is how we tell what the wires do out here in California.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Easy said:


> Just move the treated 2x6 up a couple of inches and mount an approved fan box. It looks like the box in the photo is only supported by the PVC. It's hard to tell by looking at the photo.


I've done this before just with one cable though.The box is only like a half inch and recessed into the 2X6. The box is screwed into the wood. The pvc conduit does not provide support . You can hang from it . Drywall isn't going up. That's the finished construction.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

mofos be cray said:


> What's with the hood off to the right in the pic?
> Also it looks like they're going to close in the ceiling area in which case your box should come level to the edge of the finished wall. Also I would hog out more of the 2x6 and install a real box the I'd heavy up the 2x6 on the back side.


This is a very logical approach. Thank you. I will remember that for next time.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

jw0445 said:


> I've done this before just with one cable though.The box is only like a half inch and recessed into the 2X6. The box is screwed into the wood. The pvc conduit does not provide support . You can hang from it . Drywall isn't going up. That's the finished construction.


Thank you.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

John Valdes said:


> How about your profile then?
> 
> *Required Profile*
> IMPORTANT: Required Profile Fields
> ...


Done. Thank you.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Brighton said:


> Done. Thank you.


No. Thank you Brighton! Welcome to the forum.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

mofos be cray said:


> What's with the hood off to the right in the pic?
> Also it looks like they're going to close in the ceiling area in which case your box should come level to the edge of the finished wall. Also I would hog out more of the 2x6 and install a real box the I'd heavy up the 2x6 on the back side.


That is what I was going to say Double up the 2x6 on top with just a hole for the pipe. I could of never used red PT for the 2x6 I would of had to use straight pine like rest of frame, someone went through a lot of work to make it look real nice.
Also if they want fans what are the hook eyes going to hang, plants?
Cowboy

Oh yea @Brighton welcome let us know the outcome so everyone learns.


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> That is what I was going to say Double up the 2x6 on top with just a hole for the pipe. I could of never used red PT for the 2x6 I would of had to use straight pine like rest of frame, someone went through a lot of work to make it look real nice.
> Also if they want fans what are the hook eyes going to hang, plants?
> Cowboy
> 
> Oh yea @Brighton welcome let us know the outcome so everyone learns.


I agree, the red PT looked out of place, not a bad idea otherwise. I passed on the job. I primarily wanted to discuss the use of the 2X6 with a recessed fan pan, and how others felt about hanging to that particular configuration. I personally would not mount to it as it was currently, as I felt the fan pan lag bolts would not hold up over time with the 1" hole drilled right through the center of the support beam. Though that may have been resolved by just drilling all the way through and adding a couple of bolts with some small fender washers on the top side of the board.

I do not have any other information about the project. I felt that the structure looked real nice overall otherwise.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

I'd want to know why the guy who did the rough is not coming back for trim.
Customer doesn't pay?
GC didn't pay?


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## Ausrace (Oct 30, 2018)

Metersocket648 said:


> .


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## Ausrace (Oct 30, 2018)

The 2X6 board is probably strong enough to support a normal fan, but if you have doubts you can add wood square boards to the top, each side and screw from the bottom to secure. Be careful not to go beyond the 2X6 edge to keep it clean looking. Or you could replace the 2x6 off color boards with 4x6 pine or double 2x6 pine.


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## rketch22 (Mar 4, 2020)

I'm pretty sure it's not up to code. --but that's already been said.

*2020 Code Language:
314.27(C) Boxes at Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fan Outlets. *_Outlet boxes or outlet box systems used as the sole support of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall be listed, shall be marked by their manufacturer as suitable for this purpose, and shall not support ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans that weigh more than 32 kg (70 lb). For outlet boxes or outlet box systems designed to support ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans that weigh more than 16 kg (35 lb), the required marking shall include the maximum weight to be supported.
Outlet boxes mounted in the ceilings of habitable rooms of dwelling occupancies in a location acceptable for the installation of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall comply with one of the following:
(1) Listed for the sole support of ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans
(2) An outlet box complying with the applicable requirements of 314.27 and providing access to structural framing capable of supporting of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan bracket or equivalent_


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## Brighton (Apr 2, 2021)

_Thank you.

This is what sparked my original post on this topic. How do we know when structural framing is capable of supporting a ceiling fan? Are there some guidelines out there that refer to what various types of wood and wood thicknesses should be used to adequately support up to 70 Lbs? 

I know that most installations just use a 2X4, but when we start mounting boards on the 2" side, and boring holes into them, how thin can we really go before it is considered no longer capable of supporting the weight?

"Outlet boxes mounted in the ceilings of habitable rooms of dwelling occupancies in a location acceptable for the installation of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall comply with one of the following:
(1) Listed for the sole support of ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans
(2) An outlet box complying with the applicable requirements of 314.27 and providing access to structural framing capable of supporting of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan bracket or equivalent."_

I sure would like to know how to make this determination.

Regards,


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

dspiffy said:


> They make fan rated boxes now that I am less comfortable with than a standard non-fan metal octagon box.
> 
> I agree, hang the fans and move on. Unless they bought really high end outdoor fans, there's a good chance the fans will need to be replaced long before there are any issues with water getting in.


Im with you on the cheap boxes


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Brighton said:


> _Thank you.
> 
> This is what sparked my original post on this topic. How do we know when structural framing is capable of supporting a ceiling fan? Are there some guidelines out there that refer to what various types of wood and wood thicknesses should be used to adequately support up to 70 Lbs?
> 
> ...


Get on your ladder and Slowly try to do a chin up on that board, if it holds finish the job. If it does not hold, you hear a crack or it sags, there is your answer. Talk w HO, either you or the GC can add a 2x4 or 2x6 on edge to the back/top of existing wood, preferably with appropriate screws, not nails.
*if it will hold a grown man, a fan will never break it.*


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

A 2x6 block like that, even with as much cut out of it as it is there, is more than strong enough to hold any normal fan. Now the 1" of wood to screw into could be an issue. I would use bolts rhrough the block with fender washers and nylon locknuts to hold up the fan and not worry about it at all.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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