# CO detector location?



## schnauser

I searched the forum, but couldn't find anything on this. I am planning to install a hardwired smoke detector in each of 3 bedrooms and also 1 Carbon Monoxide detector in the hallway outside the bedroom doors. Is this adequate? There is no basement, its a ranch style house, all one floor, but there really is only the one hallway, the rest is living room, den, kitchen, garage. No attic either.

thanks.


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## B W E

Center of the hallway is fine. You should make it a combo smoke/co unit though, as you gotta have a smoke in the hallway.


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## The_Modifier

Once again, are you an electrical contractor, renovator or home owner? I know in the C.E.C which closely resembles the N.E.C there are defined rules for placement and requirements for smoke detectors, C0 detectors and combination detectors.


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## WireNut1978

*combo*

I'd definitely go with a combo.


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## 220wire

The_Modifier said:


> Once again, are you an electrical contractor, renovator or home owner? I know in the C.E.C which closely resembles the N.E.C there are defined rules for placement and requirements for smoke detectors, C0 detectors and combination detectors.


 
I think you are wrong in stating the NEC lists smoke detector requirements. Check the IRC, NFPA, or the manufacturers for their input on where to put em


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## kbatku

UBC says "adjacent to each bedroom" - which we interpret (and rightly so!) to mean in the hall outside the bedroom(s). If you have a master on one side of the house and some bedrooms on the other - you need two. One on each level of the house as well, assuming more than one story. And yes, a combo is the way to go.


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## schnauser

all three bedrooms are on the one hallway, so I did the combo in the hall and smoke in each room. thanks all for the help.

related question: the job is a kitchen remodel, and we are not doing any work in any other rooms of the house. In the past I had always believed that therefore we don't need to upgrade the smoke detector situation in the house. On this job the general contractor insisted I do it because technically we "had access" to the attic crawl space via a hatch in the back of one of the bedroom closets. I did not think this was what was meant by "access." I thought that they were saying if you aren't remodeling the bedrooms/hallways you don't have to do any upgrade, period.

I have never had an inspector even ask me about smoke detectors on any past kitchen remodel. (5 years experience) Should I have been doing them? or is the general contractor being overly cautious, and/or making work for me? (I priced the work into my bid, I am not complaining about doing the work.)


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## 220wire

IMO if there's more than 50% done to a floor than smokes should be installed. You sure as hell would never put them in the kitchen. I'd Make the GC pay for the smokes if u didnt bid them. I would have used smokes as an upsell to the customer along with GFI's where needed. Could you have installed battery operated instead of hardwire?


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## leland

*Making work.*

Be happy! By the way, They have to be on a AFCI (bedroom outlet).

In Ma, smokes during a renovation are required, if you add a bedroom or add x amount of footage to a residence.


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## mikeh32

A co detector should be placed low....


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## kbatku

mikeh32 said:


> A co detector should be placed low....


Misconception. CO mixes with the air - it doesn't sink. Read the instructions - they are quite clear about placement.


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## mikeh32

kbatku said:


> Misconception. CO mixes with the air - it doesn't sink. Read the instructions - they are quite clear about placement.


I literally just took the IMSA class, and they said they should be placed lower. 

I have never looked into it, but thats what we where told.


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## wildleg

I believe that CO is usually introduced into a house as a result of improper combustion or venting - so the CO at that point is warm and will rise to the ceiling. I've been told that after it cools it will become heavier than the air and sink ? Where to put the detector, that is the question.


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## MHElectric

Smokes in the bedrooms, Co2/smoke in the hallway. Stick with this and you should be fine.

Now, someone (local authority/state authority???) in my area is trying to get an amendment passed where everything has to be a Co2/smoke. Hasnt passed yet but some inspectors have been warning contractors and everyone to get ready cause this could get passed at any time, and of course they will immediately start enforcing it before everyone knows about it.


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## mbednarik

Here they have to be a combination photoelectric/ionization detector, ac/dc with interconnect. They cost a little more than the others, but the only thing i don't like is i can't find one that is co/photoelectric/ionization in one.


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## leland

mbednarik said:


> Here they have to be a combination photoelectric/ionization detector, ac/dc with interconnect. They cost a little more than the others, but the only thing i don't like is i can't find one that is co/photoelectric/ionization in one.



They aren't available, Photo/ion - photo/co only. not sure if they have ion/co.
But the NFPA and most fire marshals are getting away from the ions.


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## kbatku

_When considering where to place a carbon monoxide detector, keep in mind that although carbon monoxide is roughly the same weight as air (carbon monoxide's specific gravity is 0.9657, as stated by the EPA; the National Resource Council lists the specific gravity of air as one), it may be contained in warm air coming from combustion appliances such as home heating equipment. If this is the case, carbon monoxide will rise with the warmer air._ 

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/19/carbon_monoxide_detector_placement/

_Detectors should sit at high points in a room. This is because of the buoyancy of gas. Carbon monoxide is lighter than air. When released into the atmosphere, it will rise and disperse to other spaces. A detector placed at a high point in a room is better equipped to discover gas early. Gas will always move up and away from the center. Spaces, such as corners will fill faster. Place detectors with this theory in mind. Units should not be lower than nose level_.

Read more: What Are the Guidelines for the Placement of Carbon Monoxide Detectors? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6299589_guidelines-placement-carbon-monoxide-detectors_.html#ixzz1opKlllBF​ 
http://www.ehow.com/list_6299589_guidelines-placement-carbon-monoxide-detectors_.html


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## Speedy Petey

MHElectric said:


> Smokes in the bedrooms, Co2/smoke in the hallway. Stick with this and you should be fine.
> 
> Now, someone (local authority/state authority???) in my area is trying to get an amendment passed where everything has to be a Co2/smoke. Hasnt passed yet but some inspectors have been warning contractors and everyone to get ready cause this could get passed at any time, and of course they will immediately start enforcing it before everyone knows about it.


Carbon Dioxide is not a deadly gas. I wasn't aware they made detectors for it. :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey

The reason to put them lower is because that's where our heads are when we sleep, NOT because CO is heavier. 
The reason to put them higher is because of the warm air effect. 

The reason to put them where ever is because CO is basically the same weight as air and WILL mix and circulate the same as room air, so no matter where you put it it will be effective.


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## MHElectric

Speedy Petey said:


> Carbon Dioxide is not a deadly gas. I wasn't aware they made detectors for it. :whistling2:


  OK, OK.....CO not CO2...:whistling2:


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## leland

Speedy Petey said:


> Carbon Dioxide is not a deadly gas. I wasn't aware they made detectors for it. :whistling2:



I disagree My good man.

In certain concentrations and applications CO2 is quite detrimental to life.
Due the type of work i do I carry CO2 on a regular basis, I have a portable meter I carry in the van with me.

http://www.co2meter.com/collections/fixed-wall-mount

*Carbon dioxide extinguishes work by displacing oxygen, or taking away the oxygen element of the fire triangle. The carbon dioxide is also very cold as it comes out of the extinguisher, so it cools the fuel as well. CO2s may be ineffective at extinguishing Class A fires because they may not be able to displace enough oxygen to successfully put the fire out. Class A materials may also smolder and re-ignite.

*
http://www.local6.com/news/5984344/detail.html
* 
*


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## Jim Port

All you need to do is pull a building permit and the house house needs to be upgraded to the current smoke/co alarm requirements, even if the permit is just for a small addition.


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## kbatku

One misconception I run into with homeowners quite often is that the CO detector will detect leaking natural gas. They apparently think that CO & nat gas are one and the same. They are quite surprised and saddened that the detectors won't (as far as I know) detect leaking nat gas.


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## five.five-six

Speedy Petey said:


> Carbon Dioxide is not a deadly gas. I wasn't aware they made detectors for it. :whistling2:


Algore and 99% of scientists would disagree with you. :whistling2:


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