# best 200 amp panel???



## groundup

looking for some advise on brands, what do you guys think is the best brand for a residentional 200 amp breaker panel, suare D,homeline,siemans,etc...? does it really even make much of a difference? thanks all


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## JohnJ0906

Square D QO.

I can't comment on cost, but we use both QO and Seimens, and I prefer the QO.

Of course, some of this is due to using them for years, and being familiar with them.


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## MDShunk

Pushmatic


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## TheElectricalGuru

lol.....shunk is a comedian at heart...lol....I would guess I am partial to Eaton® Products but I have no idea why


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## MDShunk

TheElectricalGuru said:


> lol.....shunk is a comedian at heart...lol....I would guess I am partial to Eaton® Products but I have no idea why


No, I was dead serious. I feel the Pushmatic was the best resi panel ever made. Just hard for older folks to push in and out. 

Lacking that option now, I'm an Eaton man too. (Cutler-Hammer). Specificaly, the CH series. They plug on tighter than any residential panel on the market. They had a little manufacturing boo-boo for 6 months or so, but things are back in line again. Good thing. They're my main panel. 

I would add that I don't think there's anything on the market right now that's absolute junk. You'll get pretty good service, no matter what you pick. My least favorite is probably GE, but I can't really put my finger on why. Lots of little things, but not enough for me to not put one in if a customer specifically asked for one.


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## brian john

Pushmatic is in my opinion one of the best, with the excepton of the 2-poles which if I rememeber were complicated....Then Square D hands down


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## MDShunk

brian john said:


> Pushmatic is in my opinion one of the best, with the excepton of the 2-poles which if I rememeber were complicated...


I wouldn't say that they were so much complicated as they were just weird. You had to bring one leg down the left side of the panel and the other leg down the right side of the panel. The 2 poles spanned side to side, as opposed to over/under like everything else.


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## te12co2w

I prefer Square D QO series, then Cutler Hammer. If price is important I will still go Square D but Homline rather than QO. Then Seimens. My last pick would be GE.


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## itsunclebill

I won't use Square D unless pushed simply because the company that owns them still sells FPE based junk in Canada (Federal Pioneer). Yes, it's guilt by association. Don't care.

Anyway, CH (I'll use either CH or BR, never had trouble with either), Siemens, Sq D if I HAVE to (no Homeline). I don't like GE - the buss just looks 'iffy" to me for the minis.


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## TOOL_5150

My first pick is always Square D QO - however a little pricey, Then Murray, and then CH. Homeline seems a little 'cheap' and I agree with everyone about GE - Just dont like em.

[edit]
I can get the panels crazy cheap now, so I only install QO... here are some panels I upgraded recently.





























[/edit]

~Matt


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## Mountain Electrician

In my area, Cutler Hammer BR series is probably the biggest seller. Personally, I like the way Siemens lays their panels out, but they aren't quite as sturdy as CH. Square D still gets a lot of use on higher end jobs, but if I'm bidding a "to code house", I'll go with Cutler Hammer BR series every time. 

Used to use the Cutler Hammer CH series some "back in the day", but at that time they just didn't stack up to SQD's QO breakers. Maybe the product has improved in the last 20 years.


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## brian john

Not sure Federal Pioneer makes MCCB's, but the FPE transformers and draw out CB's are decent.


For our English Friends

MCCB -molded case circit breakers
Cb circuit breakers


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## joebell

IMO Sq D QO is the best. I used to install GE @ 15 years ago but it seems that when the Big home centers picked them up the product went straight down hill. The cabinet itself seemed to be made from a thinner gauge steel? I used to tell custmers that FPE stood for Fire Protection was Extra. Sometimes the breaker would trip and sometimes it wouldn't


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## JohnJ0906

Wow, you've actually had a FPE breaker trip?!?



It must be defective. :whistling2:


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## joebell

John,
I thought I was welding but something finally let go. Maybe the cutout on the pole.


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## brian john

> FPE stood for Fire Protection was Extra


FPE Fix Prior to Energizing.

I was involved in the FPE recall replacement in the commercial bolt in CBs the issue as I recall was the CBs did not meet the AIC rating design.


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## bobelectric

I like Murray, Hate when I have to add a circuit into a G.E. 200 amp 20/40 mini panel.


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## lbwireman

itsunclebill said:


> I won't use Square D unless pushed simply because the company that owns them still sells FPE based junk in Canada (Federal Pioneer). Yes, it's guilt by association. Don't care.
> 
> Careful Bill, you're liable ta stir our FPE fan, friend from N. Carolina outa the underbrush.:whistling2:


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## MDShunk

lbwireman said:


> Careful Bill, you're liable ta stir our FPE fan, friend from N. Carolina outa the underbrush.:whistling2:


You talking about Mike? :001_huh:


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## lbwireman

'fraid so, Marc. Bill and I had a rather lengthy discussion w/ him a coupla months ago re: FPE gear. His opinion was that anyone who recommended replacing equipment based on its' brand name was just trying to make an unethical and unecessary buck. It got a little heated.


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## MDShunk

lbwireman said:


> 'fraid so, Marc. Bill and I had a rather lengthy discussion w/ him a coupla months ago re: FPE gear. His opinion was that anyone who recommended replacing equipment based on its' brand name was just trying to make an unethical and unecessary buck. It got a little heated.


He likes backstab receptacles very much also. You'll learn that some people enjoy playing devil's advocate to the Nth degree, and you may never learn how they really feel about it. 

I find it hard to turn down an easy sale myself.


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## lbwireman

hahahahahah! Gotta love them Zinsco/Sylvanias too. An' they shoulda never stopped usin' Al wire in resi apps. On a serious note, I do wish they still made Pushmatics. A bolt on resi OCPD for the maintenance challenged.


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## 220/221

We generally use the Cutler Hammer BR series all in one 200 amp for residential services.

The door hinge is better/easier to remove on the Siemans but the lugs on the CH neutral busses are larger and accept the #4 wire with ease. 

The deadfront on the Siemans has a retainer at the top which makes it fit a little cleaner.

Other than that they are basically the same. I dont really like how the buss wobbles around in ANY if them.

I recently installed a Homeline because it was the only semi flush mount I could find. It went together well and the breakers fit snugly.


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## Skkitzzo

groundup said:


> looking for some advise on brands, what do you guys think is the best brand for a residentional 200 amp breaker panel, suare D,homeline,siemans,etc...? does it really even make much of a difference? thanks all


 
My heart lies with square D :thumbsup:


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## romexrocket

I prefer Murray very reasonable and plus they have a nice rewards program:thumbup:


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## EPERINO

Sq D Is Junk, No Neutral Space.
Ge Power Mark Gold Is Best Resid. Service Panel


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## rivalshad

All the new panels we put in are Square D and they are always a really good product.


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## MF Dagger

Square D QO. The world's finest.


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## 220/221

MF Dagger said:


> Square D QO. The world's finest.


 
Except for the fact that they angle the terminals on the breakers to far freaking backwards. It is much more difficult to slip the wire in the under the tab.


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## Norcal

MF Dagger said:


> Square D QO. The world's finest.


 
The breakers are fine, panels are at best Zinsco quality (at least current production ones prev. ones were very high quality) My prefered is Cutler-Hammer CH panels ,the last decent residental/light commercial panel.
My vote for worst panels are....

1) Murray

2) Cutler-Hammer BR (Forrmerly Bryant, & Westinghouse)

3) GE

4) Sq D Homeline


No need to consider Zinsco/Sylvania/Challenger and FPE as they are not in production.


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## MF Dagger

In my opinion Cutler-Hammer are trash. All of them I've worked in have been junk.


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## gilbequick

I've worked on a few Cutler's, they didn't seem that bad. What don't you like about them?


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## TOMWELDS

Interesting topic. By a better panel, are you refering to 'performance' or 'installation'? In my experience, for performance, ive heard a lot of good on CH. Regardless of the AIC rating on the main, there engineers claim that they're all 65K. Sq D QO always has been rated highly. Ive had 86 amps on a 20amp dp homeline for a good 20 seconds...not good! To be honest, IMHO, the best protection is a fuse (plug fuses react fast!). Just a nuisance to change. For installation, GE gold panels have the neut buss away from the breakers which is nice. I never liked Sq D's k.o. system...too much trouble to remove. And i always wondered, why are there 3/8 and 1 5/8 k.o.'s?..LOL


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## goose134

> And i always wondered, why are there 3/8 and 1 5/8 k.o.'s?..LOL


I forgot about that. Square D gets my vote as well, although the complaints about the enclosure are fair. The breakers have always been good to me.


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## Mountain Electrician

goose134 said:


> I forgot about that. Square D gets my vote as well, although the complaints about the enclosure are fair. The breakers have always been good to me.


I agree that QO breakers are as good as you will find, but I much prefer the way Seimens lays out their panels. The placement of the neutral buss makes for a much cleaner install. Too bad the panel construction isn't as good as the layout.


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## JohnJ0906

TOMWELDS said:


> Sq D QO always has been rated highly. Ive had 86 amps on a 20amp dp homeline for a good 20 seconds...not good!


That is probably within the trip curve.


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## ElectricianJeff

Mountain Electrician said:


> I agree that QO breakers are as good as you will find, but I much prefer the way Seimens lays out their panels. The placement of the neutral buss makes for a much cleaner install. Too bad the panel construction isn't as good as the layout.


Agreed, from an installation standpoint I like they way Seimens backouts the terminal screws. Land, tighten and move on, a real timesaver for me.

Jeff


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## JohnJ0906

ElectricianJeff said:


> Agreed, from an installation standpoint I like they way Seimens backouts the terminal screws. Land, tighten and move on, a real timesaver for me.
> 
> Jeff


I do like this feature. :thumbsup: A little time saver. 

I think every brand has its pros and cons. A lot of what is "best" is really, "what I am used to"


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## kbsparky

gilbequick said:


> I've worked on a few Cutler's, they didn't seem that bad. What don't you like about them?


The CH plug-in breakers do not show a trip status.

Consider the scenario with some breakers on, and some off. 

Now trip one.

You can NOT determine which breaker just tripped by looking at `em. 

Even their BR breakers are better in this regard.


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## jrclen

goose134 said:


> I forgot about that. Square D gets my vote as well, although the complaints about the enclosure are fair. The breakers have always been good to me.


Good to me too. Lots of profit. I picked up a 2 pole GFCI QO day before yesterday, my price $116. Lots more mark up in that one than in the $38. Cutler Hammer. I explained to the flabergasted home owner that it was his own fault for having such an expensive panel in his house.

And that is why I use CH BR panels for most jobs. Tandem QO's = $38. Tandem BR's = $8. WTF are they thinking? They do the same thing. 

We have lots of Pushmatic panels around here in older houses MD. Wadsworth too.


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## jrclen

kbsparky said:


> The CH plug-in breakers do not show a trip status.
> 
> Consider the scenario with some breakers on, and some off.
> 
> Now trip one.
> 
> You can NOT determine which breaker just tripped by looking at `em.
> 
> Even their BR breakers are better in this regard.


I agree with that 100%. That is not good. I worked in a CH panel this summer. No panel directory in a fully loaded 200 amp panel. Some circuits had been turned off for the remodel job and I tripped one. Now find out which one it was. Rrrrrrrrr.


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## richrock1605

QO, imo, is probably the best quality panel out there. With the best quality comes the highest price as well. I like to use Siemens as well because they come with most of the terminal screws pre-backed out, it saves a little time. One flaw of Siemens though is that the KO's take a little work to get out.


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## TheRick

QO are definitely the best breakers...but lately I have been using Siemens and I am liking them more and more. The layout is nice, the lug screws are backed out for you, and I love those little tabs that hold the cover for you:thumbup:


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## Mountain Electrician

TheRick said:


> QO are definitely the best breakers...but lately I have been using Siemens and I am liking them more and more. The layout is nice, the lug screws are backed out for you, and I love those little tabs that hold the cover for you:thumbup:


Yep, Siemens is rapidly becoming my fave in their price bracket.


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## bobelectric

Seimens=Murray


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## Norcal

bobelectric said:


> Seimens=Murray


Seimens is the former ITE line and also Murray(old Crouse-Hinds).QO breakers are a fine product, but current production panels are cheap quality more in the Zinsco catagory.


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## kawaikfx400

*panel*

We use all CH and Homeline panels. I prefer the homelines over the cutler hammers because i hate the way the neutral falls in the cutler hammer,bringing the homeruns into the top the neutral is jammed into the corner and runs down the side. The Homeline, everything stays neat, nothing in the way. BUT QO's are the best. I just never get to work on em.


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## dSilanskas

IMHO I think that Square D panels are the best. The ground and neutral bars are set up much better than all other panels. So much easier to get to them:thumbsup:


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## KayJay

For the price, at least for residential, I personally like the Siemens 200A/40 circuit panels with the copper bus. The dual full-length neutral bars with the screws backed out from the factory are very convenient. Their circuit breakers are reliable and don’t cost a fortune. I think they are a very good product/value overall. Although I truly believe that all AFCI’s are a steaming heap of marketing BS, I regard the Siemens new combo with the LED fault indicators as the best out of the pile.


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## handyman78

Just put a Siemens 200a 40/40 value-pak in my home last week. Liked the bus bar placement, the insta-wire screws, copper bus and tabs holding the cover. The price was right too- compared to the same sized QO panel without any breakers! A steel box w/cover, 2 neutral buss bars and a plated main buss shouldn't be costing all that much more!


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## Bkessler

Those cutler hammers are pretty nice, although I have never installed one.


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## ce2two

*ce2two*

i'd go with sq.d (QO) residential,and comm. if it is feasible I-line SQ.D.................push-matic :no: ...... hey 5150 what about your flex not being supported ,nail-ons ?


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## ralph

ce2two said:


> i'd go with sq.d (QO) residential,and comm. if it is feasible I-line SQ.D.................push-matic :no: ...... hey 5150 what about your flex not being supported ,nail-ons ?


Should have some supports within 12'' of the panel on those hr's
Also I cant stand feeds going throught the panel. It would have been nice to have the lugs on the bottom.


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## preacher

*Best Panel*

Anybody try the CH renovation panels? Neutrals up top and terminal strips. Pretty nice to work with.


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## TOOL_5150

ce2two said:


> i'd go with sq.d (QO) residential,and comm. if it is feasible I-line SQ.D.................push-matic :no: ...... hey 5150 what about your flex not being supported ,nail-ons ?


If you are talking about the last panel... it was not done at that time... it still isnt actually. Been too busy at work, doing other panels and service upgrades.

~Matt


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## TOOL_5150

ralph said:


> Should have some supports within 12'' of the panel on those hr's
> Also I cant stand feeds going throught the panel. It would have been nice to have the lugs on the bottom.


Yeah that job was a pain... Was going to chase from the back of the meter pan to the top of the panel, But inspector wanted a meter main, which pushed the only possible entrance to the bottom of the panel.

~Matt


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## electrician1957

Cutler Hammer, all the way.


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## william1978

Square D QO is what I prefer.


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## fungku

Been using Siemens almost exclusively for a year and recently decided to give square D a go on a few jobs.

They feel "sturdier" but I don't like the neutral bars...


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## caseyelectric

Love my Square D. Since ive been in business for myself been using alot more seimens and ch. For some reason where i live it is harder to get Square d, plus most people say ....oh no i dont want to spend that much just use another cheaper brand. I beleive sqare d is better built but like somebody else said ....maybe its because im more familiar with it.


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## 220/221

Siemans = copper bus











Cutler Hammer and Homeline are basically the same to install......minus the copper bus.


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## Wireman131

I would have to say that GE is my least favorite brand to work on, seems that they go to great lenghts to sharpen every edge of the sheet metal tub, standoffs, and the like. Square D is probably the most popular in this area, with the bolt on QO being the best IMO.


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## 2towbot

What no Zinsco/Sylvannia love out there?


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## dognutz12

I prefer Square D QO breakers. But I like the cutler hammer ch panel boards better. Specifically the ground/neutral bars. I like to be able to bring grnds/ntrls down the side of the tub and leave enough wire in the tub to work with in the future. QO bars are stacked right below the main and make for a clusterred finished product in my opinion. But as I say, QO breakers are the better than CH.


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## Kevin J

TheElectricalGuru said:


> lol.....shunk is a comedian at heart...lol....I would guess I am partial to Eaton® Products but I have no idea why



If you're really trying to be funny, just go with the old reliable Federal Pacific. Can still get them from salvage shops. Just kidding, just kidding.Now THAT was a piece of junk panel. Personally, I like Murray Rock Solids, just out of habit.


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## Effectively Grounded

Just tell your customer that the one you install is the best 200A panel.


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## chain_dogg

Square D.......QO has my Vote for the Homestead :thumbup:

Most of the work i Do is in hospitals, Square D QOB Copper buss is always a Spec by Mulitple Engineers.


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