# This has me baffled... Lights coming on by themselves



## kevmanTA

Been working on this since.... November 2011... Slowly eliminating problems that I believe are related to the lights going on by themselves..
What's happening?
One bedroom, 4 pot lights controlled by a dimmer.. The kid in the room complains that in the middle of the night, the light will come on by itself, wake him up, and he will have to manually turn it off..

Computer room - the daughter mentioned the light had been going on and off by itself this passed week, it's controlled by a hampton bay remote control switch, I turned it on and off a few times, hit the wall, checked the connections, it all seems fine.

Downstairs bathroom.. Another hampton bay remote control, Light went on and off every hour for one day, hasn't happened since. The computer room switch is at a different frequency...


What I've elimated.. Backfed circuit -> two breakers were feeding one upstairs receptacle, luckily it didn't create a 240 connection on the plug.
-> replaced downstairs bathroom remote control and reciever, as well as upstairs bedroom dimmer.
-> Tested directly at the main, 238V steady, Neutral looks fine, as well as the connections on the main, again, hit my fist around the main, voltage did not fluctuate. It was aluminum wire, with NoAlox used, no heat markings on the lugs.

-> Checked the feeder to that sub panel which was a Generac transfer switch in the basement, again, everything looked good, connections were tight, neutral and ground looked good, again, with the breaker feeding the transfer panel.


I've opened EVERY receptacle and switch fed from that sub panel. I have redone all back stabbed connections, traced out and found feeds, and am completely baffled that there is still an issue... I can usually figure out why something turns off... But randomly on?

I mentioned this to another electrician, and a salesman from a local wholesaler, they suggested hiring a Medium... Crazy, man.. Any ideas guys?


----------



## RePhase277

Eliminate the crappy cheap remote switches and that will fix the problem. 

Some kind of outside RF noise is triggering them.


----------



## Dennis Alwon

InPhase277 said:


> Eliminate the crappy cheap remote switches and that will fix the problem.
> 
> Some kind of outside RF noise is triggering them.


I agree. If these are Radio Freq. switches can you change the dip switch settings. That may do it esp. if they are both set the same.


----------



## wildleg

bad batteries will often cause remotes to come on also.


----------



## HARRY304E

:laughing:The house is haunted..

This is a case of some one driving by listing to CD's in their car and when they drive by those switches are picking up RF signals could even be the cops driving by at 3 in the morning ..:laughing:

At least they know gostbusters is driving by with coffee and doughnuts:laughing:

It has to be something like that /Motion sensors do that sometimes with cars driving by..


----------



## Shockdoc

I second Harrys opinion, recommend a reputable spiritual advisor.


----------



## Awg-Dawg

Shockdoc said:


> I second Harrys opinion, recommend a reputable spiritual advisor.


An excorcism is cheaper and cuts to the chase...


----------



## kevmanTA

That explains the two remote control switches, but the dimmer is hard wired.


----------



## Shockdoc

Is it a track house ? Check under the basement floor or in the front stoop foundation for a buried body.


----------



## RGH

stupid remotes...probably the direct tv memote :laughing:


----------



## kevmanTA

Shockdoc said:


> Is it a track house ? Check under the basement floor or in the front stoop foundation for a buried body.


Custom home, roughly 18 years old, all copper wiring, FPE stabloc panels.


----------



## Shockdoc

kevmanTA said:


> Custom home, roughly 18 years old, all copper wiring, FPE stabloc panels.


Doesn't hurt to have a paranormal investigator check the place out. The hard wired dimmer is one of those things that just can't possibly turn itself on without being manipulated by an unseen force. I've had toys turn on by themselves in my own home.


----------



## RGH

PITA but you can open up the units and the remotes and reset all the DIP switches...sounds like you are getting splash from some other device...neighbors garage door opener ect..


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

Silly Harry... cd 's don't put out rf


----------



## Shockdoc

I would try replacing that dimmer with a new unit. If it continues to turn itself on. I would urge the customer to rig a infrared camera at the switch and begin recording. Run an EMF reading around the remote switches.


----------



## HARRY304E

mcclary's electrical said:


> Silly Harry... cd 's don't put out rf


Really dude?:blink:


----------



## jza

So if it's a dimmer, has the dimmer physically turned itself on in the middle of the night? If the dimmer is left at 50%, does the light turn on at 50% or is it at 100%?

I'd replace the dimmer and both remote controls. But then you'll look like an idiot for not doing that back in November 2011.


----------



## Thabes

If its rf any little change could set the on and off I knew a guy who bought a battery powered scooter for his son and every night it was charging the lights were going crazy (they were on x10 switches) it took him a month to figure it out


----------



## Service Call

kevmanTA said:


> Custom home, roughly 18 years old, all copper wiring, FPE stabloc panels.


18 years old with FPE panels?


----------



## thegoldenboy

Service Call said:


> 18 years old with FPE panels?


FPE is still kicking in Canada, under a new name and owned by Schneider.


----------



## sprdave

thegoldenboy said:


> FPE is still kicking in Canada, under a new name and owned by Schneider.


They're discontinued now, just some stock left.
Replaced with Homeline


----------



## Semi-Ret Electrician

kevmanTA said:


> Custom home, roughly 18 years old, all copper wiring, FPE stabloc panels.


Custom home with;backstabbed devices, FPE panel, hampton bay controllers?

How long has the weird stuff been going on? Was there a period in time when everything worked OK...then something was added and strange things started to happen?

With the "wireless trend" it's going to be hard to select a clear frequency. Every RF device has harmonics, sub-harmonics and beat frequencies with other RF devices, which also produces beat harmonics.


----------



## kevmanTA

The dimmer is not even a month old, I installed it, and continues the trend of turning on by itself.



Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Custom home with;backstabbed devices, FPE panel, hampton bay controllers? *The controllers were added after by us, it's a goofy fan control thing, she has fans in every room, where we couldn't fish them down the wall, we used the controllers.
> *
> How long has the weird stuff been going on? Was there a period in time when everything worked OK...then something was added and strange things started to happen? *Another electrical contractor moved the Generac panel in the basement over 5', to deal with a window that was being added in the basement, the GC running the job chose them, we didn't get a chance to quote it. That's all I know of that was changed.
> *
> With the "wireless trend" it's going to be hard to select a clear frequency. Every RF device has harmonics, sub-harmonics and beat frequencies with other RF devices, which also produces beat harmonics.


----------



## Zparme

Have you tried using a regular single pole switch? I know it's not really any different from a dimmer, but it seems like you're running out of options.


----------



## TattooMan

kevmanTA said:


> Been working on this since.... November 2011... Slowly eliminating problems that I believe are related to the lights going on by themselves..
> What's happening?
> One bedroom, 4 pot lights controlled by a dimmer.. The kid in the room complains that in the middle of the night, the light will come on by itself, wake him up, and he will have to manually turn it off..
> 
> Computer room - the daughter mentioned the light had been going on and off by itself this passed week, it's controlled by a hampton bay remote control switch, I turned it on and off a few times, hit the wall, checked the connections, it all seems fine.
> 
> Downstairs bathroom.. Another hampton bay remote control, Light went on and off every hour for one day, hasn't happened since. The computer room switch is at a different frequency...
> 
> What I've elimated.. Backfed circuit -> two breakers were feeding one upstairs receptacle, luckily it didn't create a 240 connection on the plug.
> -> replaced downstairs bathroom remote control and reciever, as well as upstairs bedroom dimmer.
> -> Tested directly at the main, 238V steady, Neutral looks fine, as well as the connections on the main, again, hit my fist around the main, voltage did not fluctuate. It was aluminum wire, with NoAlox used, no heat markings on the lugs.
> 
> -> Checked the feeder to that sub panel which was a Generac transfer switch in the basement, again, everything looked good, connections were tight, neutral and ground looked good, again, with the breaker feeding the transfer panel.
> 
> I've opened EVERY receptacle and switch fed from that sub panel. I have redone all back stabbed connections, traced out and found feeds, and am completely baffled that there is still an issue... I can usually figure out why something turns off... But randomly on?
> 
> I mentioned this to another electrician, and a salesman from a local wholesaler, they suggested hiring a Medium... Crazy, man.. Any ideas guys?


Is this a poll? I vote ghost


----------



## Timofee

Remotes doing it for sure....


----------



## Shockdoc

--------------


----------



## chewy

I had a ghost in one of my homes that would turn on lights in the kitchen when we were down the hall and in the lounge, set the toaster and boil the kettle, I would wake up in my bedroom with the light on, television in my housemates room would turn on, we would get home and all the drawers and cupboards in the kitchens would be open. You could feel a presence but it was a nice feeling that put you at ease not creepy or anything. I started talking to it and it stopped playing up so much but we would still often get home and a drawer would be open and the kettle hot like it was trying to make a cup of tea.


----------



## Shockdoc

Set up that infra red camera on the dimmer, I already know the results cause I've been there before.


----------



## jarhead0531

What type of bulbs in the room with the dimmer?? I've seen cfl's be half light at weird times when installed on a dimmer.

The other rooms with remotes could have a different issue. All those remote units are set to automatically turn on the light in the event of a power outage. If the area has lots of little outages that could be causing that problem.


----------



## TattooMan

chewy said:


> I had a ghost in one of my homes that would turn on lights in the kitchen when we were down the hall and in the lounge, set the toaster and boil the kettle, I would wake up in my bedroom with the light on, television in my housemates room would turn on, we would get home and all the drawers and cupboards in the kitchens would be open. You could feel a presence but it was a nice feeling that put you at ease not creepy or anything. I started talking to it and it stopped playing up so much but we would still often get home and a drawer would be open and the kettle hot like it was trying to make a cup of tea.


I had one that would turn appliances on that were not even plugged in. I can still remember my mothers face when she was holding the cord in one hand and the hair dryer in the other with it going full blast. Lol. We are fairly certain it was my great grandfather though.


----------



## kevmanTA

jarhead0531 said:


> What type of bulbs in the room with the dimmer?? I've seen cfl's be half light at weird times when installed on a dimmer.
> 
> The other rooms with remotes could have a different issue. All those remote units are set to automatically turn on the light in the event of a power outage. If the area has lots of little outages that could be causing that problem.


They're incandescent bulbs, 65W spot light style in pot lights.



> Set up that infra red camera on the dimmer, I already know the results cause I've been there before.


What were the results?


----------



## TOOL_5150

kevmanTA said:


> What I've elimated.. Backfed circuit -> two breakers were feeding one upstairs receptacle, luckily it didn't create a 240 connection on the plug.


Just to be clear - That wouldnt happen. If you put one of those 2 breakers on an opposite phase, one would trip instantly when the 2nd of the 2 were turned on, not heat the receptacle to 240v.


----------



## kevmanTA

TOOL_5150 said:


> Just to be clear - That wouldnt happen. If you put one of those 2 breakers on an opposite phase, one would trip instantly when the 2nd of the 2 were turned on, not heat the receptacle to 240v.


That's what I meant with the 240, not that it would create a 240 connection, more or less a short.

I worded it wrong, long day on Friday..


----------



## Shockdoc

kevmanTA said:


> They're incandescent bulbs, 65W spot light style in pot lights.
> 
> 
> 
> What were the results?


 You will see that thing click on all by itself.


----------



## rnichols

Its probably like that one commerical from awhile ago with the man in his garage turning a switch on and off as the neighbors garage door is slaming on the hood of there car...


----------



## Clarky

Get rid of those remotes and put in regular switches and see if it fixes the problem


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

HARRY304E said:


> Really dude?:blink:


 


duh:laughing:


----------



## kevmanTA

Clarky said:


> Get rid of those remotes and put in regular switches and see if it fixes the problem


I can only install another remote, It's impossible to fish into that ceiling and down the wall without cutting massive holes, she doesn't want a mess.


----------



## thegoldenboy

kevmanTA said:


> I can only install another remote, It's impossible to fish into that ceiling and down the wall without cutting massive holes, she doesn't want a mess.


Wiremold is our friend. If she doesn't want to pay for that, tubing is cheap. If she doesn't want it surface mounted and wants the problem solved, cutting holes will be your hail mary attempt.


----------



## Clarky

So the rooms have no current switches? Huh ! Sounded like the bed room with 4 pot light is on a dimmer, wired dimmer? No remote? Start there and put in regular switch,remove all the other remotes and see what happens.


----------



## CraigV

Sounds to me like the two fan remotes are on the same code. Someone turns the unit off downstairs, and it turns the upstairs unit on. Person upstairs gets annoyed, and hits their remote, which turns the downstairs unit back on again. 

The kid is just jealous about all the hoopla in the house, and is lying about the dimmer lights coming on by themselves.....


----------



## sbrn33

CraigV said:


> Sounds to me like the two fan remotes are on the same code. Someone turns the unit off downstairs, and it turns the upstairs unit on. Person upstairs gets annoyed, and hits their remote, which turns the downstairs unit back on again.
> 
> The kid is just jealous about all the hoopla in the house, and is lying about the dimmer lights coming on by themselves.....


Craig is right on.
Oh and anything Hampton bay is ****.


----------



## Hawkrod

sbrn33 said:


> Craig is right on.
> Oh and anything Hampton bay is ****.


Your offending **** everywhere!


----------



## new shocker

Have you checked the neutrals??? For the remotes take the neutral (low voltage side and put it on the ground. I've had several that constantly would go on and off...put the low voltage side neutral to ground and it stops. All I can figure is something on the neutral is back feeding. It's all I can think of.


----------



## Dash Dingo

Is that a maestro dimmer? I can see that going on by itself. That kid could be full of hot air too.


----------



## kevmanTA

My old man jokingly said that the kid is just smoking K2 and going to sleep with the lights on.. I laughed..

But it's probably true..


----------



## McClary’s Electrical

new shocker said:


> Have you checked the neutrals??? For the remotes take the neutral (low voltage side and put it on the ground. I've had several that constantly would go on and off...put the low voltage side neutral to ground and it stops. All I can figure is something on the neutral is back feeding. It's all I can think of.


 

That's a code violation and hack


----------



## new shocker

Sorry, I was told this by a GE and a instructor at IBEW class for lighting control. Please help me, could you give me the NEC number..I'd like to have the same ammo you do for this...and Thanks for helping me...I feel so Cleatis


----------



## RICK BOYD

*have you seen this label*

part 15 of the FCC rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) this device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.


----------



## CraigV

new shocker said:


> Sorry, I was told this by a GE and a instructor at IBEW class for lighting control. Please help me, could you give me the NEC number..I'd like to have the same ammo you do for this...and Thanks for helping me...I feel so Cleatis


250.24(A)(5) if I recall correctly. No neutral to ground connection on the load side of the service disconnect.


----------

