# Daisy Chain receptacles?!



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

The stuff you worry about blows my mind.:laughing:


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## brother (Nov 25, 2008)

BBQ said:


> The stuff you worry about blows my mind.:laughing:


 whos worried, just making a comment and post. you do not have to respond if it bugs ya! you can ignore!!!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brother said:


> whos worried, just making a comment and post. you do not have to respond if it bugs ya! you can ignore!!!


You obviously, and I can respond even if it is with something you don't want to hear.:thumbsup:


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## brother (Nov 25, 2008)

BBQ said:


> You obviously, and I can respond even if it is with something you don't want to hear.:thumbsup:


 It wouldn't be so bad if you actually gave something 'worth' reading that was related to the topic at hand. But I guess I shouldn't expect too much from you in that regard.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I don't know that a receptacle is any more likely to "go bad" and open the downstream connection any more frequently than a wire nut will "go bad" and do the same thing. The real advantage to pigtailing was in speeding up the trim out, and in the ability to change a receptacle hot (which doesn't really hold up as a compliant reason anymore). If the money on a job is tight, I'd really like the ability to save 27 cents per wirenut for all the connections that I don't have to pigtail.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I don't know that a receptacle is any more likely to "go bad" and open the downstream connection any more frequently than a wire nut will "go bad" and do the same thing.


It is funny how it seems that many electricians have no problem forgetting the bad wirenut splices they have encountered but receptacle failures and AL wire failures stick with them forever. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

brother said:


> It wouldn't be so bad if you actually gave something 'worth' reading that was related to the topic at hand. But I guess I shouldn't expect too much from you in that regard.


LOL, maybe if you asked some challenging questions I could come up with some respectable answers. :thumbsup:

In this thread, both ways are code compliant both ways can work forever or fail tomorrow so it really comes down to job specs and / or what the boss wants. 

I know a lot of jobs where they prefab receptacles with 6" pigtails and three port 'Wagos' so you just have to plug the connectors into the Wago and screw the device to the box at trim out. Fast as fast can be.


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## Foestauf (Jan 5, 2011)

BBQ said:


> I know a lot of jobs where they prefab receptacles with 6" pigtails and three port 'Wagos' so you just have to plug the connectors into the Wago and screw the device to the box at trim out. Fast as fast can be.


On the service end those make life easier for sure.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Foestauf said:


> On the service end those make life easier for sure.


Yeah, I think it would be awesome if they made Wago's big enough to tap up a service. :whistling2:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

brother said:


> Any one else wire their receptacles this way and if so why???


This is how receptacles have always been wired everywhere since the light bulb replaced the gas light..

The manufacture gives you (4) termination points.. feed in and feed out.. why would I want to spend the time pigtailing these devices?? :blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

B4T said:


> This is how receptacles have always been wired everywhere since the light bulb replaced the gas light..
> 
> The manufacture gives you (4) termination points.. feed in and feed out.. why would I want to spend the time pigtailing these devices?? :blink:


Or...... The manufacture gives you (4) termination points.. so you can have two circuits or half-hot.

If you want to save time, why not GFCI line-load protect your kitchen receps?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Or...... The manufacture gives you (4) termination points.. so you can have two circuits or half-hot.
> 
> If you want to save time, why not GFCI line-load protect your kitchen receps?


I figured you would chime in with a "WAGO's suck" comment.. :laughing:

What is the percentage of receptacles using the (4) terminals for feed in and out compared to the specialty wiring you a bringing into the debate..:blink:

I never use feed through GFI's.. but you know that already.. among other long running topics of discussion here on ET.. :no:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> If you want to save time, why not GFCI line-load protect your kitchen receps?


'cause that is hack of course ........ do you live under a rock? :laughing:


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

brother said:


> Any one else wire their receptacles this way and if so why???


No, I do not consider that a quality installation.

Opinions will vary. :thumbsup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dnkldorf said:


> No, I do not consider that a quality installation.


What the hell does that have to do with it?:jester:

I am in this trade for the money, not the accolades. :laughing:


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I am in this trade for the money, not the accolades. :laughing:


Say's the chief moderator of the #1 NEC code forum known to the planet.:laughing:


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## EMeis1114 (Mar 5, 2011)

BBQ said:


> It is funny how it seems that many electricians have no problem forgetting the bad wirenut splices they have encountered but receptacle failures and AL wire failures stick with them forever. :laughing:


A wirenut splice should have a good physical connection before you put the wire nut on, therefore it's not relying on the wirenut to maintain continuity.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I believe the pigtail came about in commercial work to avoid downstream disruption if a receptacles goes bad. Of course, it is probably more likely or just as likely the splice will go bad. 

Back in the day most ec worked a circuit hot, so changing a receptacle hot was safer when there was just one wire on it.


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## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> I don't know that a receptacle is any more likely to "go bad" and open the downstream connection any more frequently than a wire nut will "go bad" and do the same thing. The real advantage to pigtailing was in speeding up the trim out, and in the ability to change a receptacle hot (which doesn't really hold up as a compliant reason anymore). If the money on a job is tight, I'd really like the ability to save 27 cents per wirenut for all the connections that I don't have to pigtail.


What wirenuts are you using for 27 cents each? Sounds high.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

EMeis1114 said:


> A wirenut splice should have a good physical connection before you put the wire nut on, therefore it's not relying on the wirenut to maintain continuity.


Not true if you read the instructions on a wirenut box / bag.

But again that goes back to the installers skills and care. 

A properly made up feed through device should be as reliable as a wirenut.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Honestly said:


> What wirenuts are you using for 27 cents each? Sounds high.


I notice that people who have only ever been an employee don't have a good sense of what stuff costs.

Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


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## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> I notice that people who have only ever been an employee don't have a good sense of what stuff costs.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


Right. I am a licensed electrical contractor who has never purchased wirenuts. Sorry if that question was too difficult.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Normally red B-Caps, which sell for around 27 cents.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

BBQ said:


> 'cause that is hack of course ........ do you live under a rock? :laughing:



No, I live under a bridge. But I do have quite luxurious accommodations..... I recently upgraded to the cardboard box a Viking 10-burner gas stove comes in. Previously, I had been living in boxes from KraftMaid cabinets.:thumbup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I recently upgraded to the cardboard box a Viking 10-burner gas stove comes in.



That is some high class living ....... I am saving up for a Subzero box so I can stand up. :jester:


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## gizmo21187 (Aug 11, 2010)

480sparky said:


> No, I live under a bridge. But I do have quite luxurious accommodations..... I recently upgraded to the cardboard box a Viking 10-burner gas stove comes in. Previously, I had been living in boxes from KraftMaid cabinets.:thumbup:


Was it because of the stove you had to upgrade the box

we


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

gizmo21187 said:


> Was it because of the stove you had to upgrade the box
> 
> we


It was gas.. it don't need a box..:laughing:


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

This whole thread kinda leads back to a post I wrote earlier about stabbing in versus landing under the screw terminal. If you land both feed in and feed out, there should be no problem ever with a "Bad" recep killing all the others down stream. If they are stabbed in (other than the stab and tighten type), in my exp. MUCH more likely to experience a problem down the line.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

BBQ said:


> The stuff you worry about blows my mind.:laughing:


Yep. I hate guys that pigtail everything. I'm always like "you just spent hundreds of extra bucks in wirenuts for what exactly?"


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Any one else wire their receptacles this way and if so why???


Most everyone does because it's faster/easier.

On a commercial job, I can see the reasoning and would support the pigtailing method.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

The reason to wire like this is it's faster. Saves labor. Honestly I don't lose sleep worrying about a bad receptacle taking out the circuit. Maybe in a hospital I would be concerned but for almost every other application I see no problem with it. I do use receptacles as feed through devices. Actually feel that the screw connections are better than wire nut connections.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

brother said:


> Any one else wire their receptacles this way and if so why???


Of course most people (at least in houses) wire them this way. This is the norm. Just calm down it's ok.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Clamping.yes ,Stabbing,Ixnay! I always do tailing.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> That is some high class living ....... I am saving up for a Subzero box so I can stand up. :jester:


Darn, I'm still living in the ghetto. I added onto my house with Amana and Hotpoint boxes, but it's just not working out.


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## I_get_shocked (Apr 6, 2009)

Theres nothing wrong with pigtailing or using the device feed out terminals.

If theres only two wires I will make use of the device terminals.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Previously, I had been living in boxes from KraftMaid cabinets.:thumbup:


Well that's better than living in the Kraft-Maid cabinets themselves. I think the cardboard will last longer than those cabinets. :laughing:


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Receptacles?! Receptacles are for hacks who can't bend conduit. A _real _electrician hard pipes in everything that needs power! 

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> A _real _electrician hard pipes in everything that needs power!


You must be originally from Chicago.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Big John said:


> Receptacles?! Receptacles are for hacks who can't bend conduit. A _real _electrician hard pipes in everything that needs power!
> 
> -John


Sure if you want a job to last twice as long and cost twice as much..


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Big John said:


> Receptacles?! Receptacles are for hacks who can't bend conduit. A _real _electrician hard pipes in everything that needs power!
> 
> -John


I'm confused, what does conduit have to do with pig-tails on receptacles? So you use conduit instead of receptacles??


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)




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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


>


Thanks, I was getting worried...

-John


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

BBQ said:


> 'cause that is hack of course ........ do you live under a rock? :laughing:


 LOL oh man I freaking love that guy....I need a t shirt with him on it.....LOL "OH NO WAY...."


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

B4T said:


> Sure if you want a job to last twice as long and cost twice as much..


Kinda like putting GFCI's at every kitchen counter location.


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Kinda like putting GFCI's at every kitchen counter location.



LMFAO :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Kinda like putting GFCI's at every kitchen counter location.


So what is wrong with up selling my job..

The customer gets a better product and I make more money..

Only loser here is the guy bidding feed through GFI's instead of giving the HO the option of "point of use"..

I am working for the money.. not looking to get done one hour faster..

And I hope you don't try to compare running EMT instead of NM to using a GFI in every receptacle spot..


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> I don't know that a receptacle is any more likely to "go bad" and open the downstream connection any more frequently than a wire nut will "go bad" and do the same thing. The real advantage to pigtailing was in speeding up the trim out, and in the ability to change a receptacle hot (which doesn't really hold up as a compliant reason anymore). If the money on a job is tight, I'd really like the ability to save 27 cents per wirenut for all the connections that I don't have to pigtail.


You're paying 27 cents per wirenut? Send me your address and I'll ship you some at 23 cents, as many as you like


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

B W E said:


> You're paying 27 cents per wirenut? Send me your address and I'll ship you some at 23 cents, as many as you like


I never said I pay 27 cents per. I told you what they sell for.

Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> I never said I pay 27 cents per. I told you what they sell for.


Your avatar is still really creepy.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Your avatar is still really creepy.


Marc looks like he was sleeping at his desk and someone was throwing wire nuts at him.. :laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

MDShunk said:


> I never said I pay 27 cents per. I told you what they sell for.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.





Peter D said:


> Your avatar is still really creepy.





B4T said:


> Marc looks like he was sleeping at his desk and someone was throwing wire nuts at him.. :laughing:


I don't get it, his wife is attractive and seems to be normal, maybe Marc comes from big East coast money.:laughing:


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## rnr electric (Jan 29, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I believe the pigtail came about in commercial work to avoid downstream disruption if a receptacles goes bad. Of course, it is probably more likely or just as likely the splice will go bad.
> 
> Back in the day most ec worked a circuit hot, so changing a receptacle hot was safer when there was just one wire on it.


 WELL SAID!!. i would say one is as good as the other, but pigtailing is much easier to work hot


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> I never said I pay 27 cents per. I told you what they sell for.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using the ElectricianTalk Forum app. Please excuse my brevity.


Sorry, but when you say "I'd like to save 27 cents per wirenut" you give the impression that by not using one you'd save 27 cents. That would mean that you wouldn't have to buy one for 27 cents. Don't see what saving yourself 27 cents has to do with what you sell them for. Sorry for the confusion......


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

B W E said:


> Sorry for the confusion......


Now I'm thoroughly confused.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

B W E said:


> Sorry, but when you say "I'd like to save 27 cents per wirenut" you give the impression that by not using one you'd save 27 cents. That would mean that you wouldn't have to buy one for 27 cents. Don't see what saving yourself 27 cents has to do with what you sell them for. Sorry for the confusion......


Thanks for your drama. Now, go away. :thumbsup:


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> Thanks for your drama. Now, go away. :thumbsup:


MY drama?? You got butthurt over a joke, and then tried to bs your way out of it instead of just laughing about it. Relax dude.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


Dnkldorf said:



No, I do not consider that a quality installation.

Opinions will vary. :thumbsup:

Click to expand...

*I agree.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

steelersman said:


> Now I'm thoroughly confused.


That is normal for you...


How's my spelling:laughing:


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## kalexv12 (Apr 23, 2009)

rnr electric said:


> WELL SAID!!. i would say one is as good as the other, but pigtailing is much easier to work hot


I agree, in resi it's not as critical to shut off circuits to change out an outlet. Which is why it makes sense not to go through the trouble of pigtailing.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

kalexv12 said:


> I agree, in resi it's not as critical to shut off circuits to change out an outlet. Which is why it makes sense not to go through the trouble of pigtailing.


And why is it so mission critical to not kill a circuit in commercial or even industrial to swap a receptacle. Accoriding to OSHA were aren't supposed to work live anyways. I pretty much don't on small stuff like that. Just as easy to kill a circuit.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

You can change an outlet hot. If turning off power creates a situation more hazardous then changing it hot. Get a hot work permit, PPE face shield etc etc
:nerd:


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## tkb (Jan 21, 2009)

gold said:


> You can change an outlet hot. If turning off power creates a situation more hazardous then changing it hot. Get a hot work permit, PPE face shield etc etc
> :nerd:


Name three. 
If it is just inconvenient or would have a financial impact, OSHA would fine you.


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## hotwire1955 (Jan 27, 2009)

BBQ said:


> That is some high class living ....... I am saving up for a Subzero box so I can stand up. :jester:


 Standing up is not the problem:chef:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

tkb said:


> Name three.
> If it is just inconvenient or would have a financial impact, OSHA would fine you.


That was sarcasm


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