# Tesla battery banks?



## Steven A. (Feb 20, 2020)

What are your thoughts on the Tesla battery banks?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

My thoughts are that your mother should’ve been beaten while pregnant with you.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

That the Tesla Energy people are the ****tiest "electricians" ever. Their installations are an absolute abomination.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

Tesla battery banks?

You mean the TESLA POWERWALL?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Tesla battery banks?
> 
> You mean the TESLA POWERWALL?


Thats all it is basically, with a controller attached. And probably some sort of spy stuff


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> Thats all it is basically, with a controller attached. And probably some sort of spy stuff


I know that's pretty much what it is.

I wouldn't be surprised if it has spy stuff...


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

My Cat genset will beat your Tesla battery any day of the week.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> My Cat genset will beat your Tesla battery any day of the week.


Does it run silently at night?


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

macmikeman said:


> Does it run silently at night?


Put it far enough away from the house and noise will be the neighbors problem instead of yours!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Not if the house is a Leopard 54............


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

Kevin_Essiambre said:


> Put it far enough away from the house and noise will be the neighbors problem instead of yours!


They can be ordered with noise suppression enclosures.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Bird dog said:


> They can be ordered with noise suppression enclosures.



You mean the hospital grade ones where you can stand next to it and have a conversation?

Only trouble with a Cat is Cat urine. They tend to leave some dripping all over the place. Buy a Cummins! Or if you have a “baby on board” sticker a Generac. Cats and Cummins are work horses, not ornaments. Then when it breaks just call me. I’m not brand specific.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I have been investigating power walls since conception. I believe they are up to GEN 2 now.
Gen 1 had a thermal run away problem, like most of the other LI devices of the time. 
There are at least 2 other MFG of same equipment and you do not have to deal with TESLA.
The biggest issue I have with them is the size. I live in a area where you learn a NEW respect for the sun, quick. LI batteries do not like heat or cold. 
I am also investigating the Nissan Leaf batteries, for the money they seem a much better idea.
I have issues with the 
"The most popular battery pack supplied by Tesla contains *7,104 18650* cells in *16 444* cell modules capable of storing up to 85 kWh of energy " to many areas that can go a wry.


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## BreakYoSelf (Apr 12, 2021)

The Tesla Powerwall is a good system depending on what your goals are… but it’s a small part of a larger ecosystem. If their auto-bidder software ever takes off you will basically be a micro-grid generation plant. Long term it has a lot of potential, but I feel the system is pretty overpriced. (Cost per kWh)

Each Powerwall is about 13.5 kwh in raw capacity but it’s actually pretty expensive for the capacity. It’s pretty much the same battery modules they use inside the Model S. There are two installed inside each Powerwall.

My primary interest in these things is actually taking them out for use in other applications because they are great batteries.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

And what do you do with them when the batteries finally fail?
This is where "green" energy creates a toxic land fill.


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## BreakYoSelf (Apr 12, 2021)

wiz1997 said:


> And what do you do with them when the batteries finally fail?
> This is where "green" energy creates a toxic land fill.


Everything inside these batteries are recyclable. Any recycling e-waste company will accept them, but I only work with certified R2 recycling facilities... I actually get paid by the pound for the materials because they are so desirable.

That said, what "WE" are doing, is delaying that from happening. There are entire communities and companies involved in "2nd life storage" where we repurpose lithium-ion batteries from cars for stationary storage and solar applications.

We take used products, including EV cars destined for the junk yard, pull the packs, test each individual module, and resell for profit to builders if we dont use them ourselves. I'm not the only one doing it either... lots of competition. This started as a hobby but I'm moving to a new facility and hiring staff as we grow.


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## Lightsmith (Oct 8, 2010)

The Tesla battery bank is going to last through thousands of recharge cycles and this is why major utility power companies are investing in them with large installations. They are more expensive than a generator but if you live in Texas where the power companies do not provide electricity or natural gas when it is cold and you need it the most, then the options are for a Tesla battery bank or a propane powered standby generator and a very large propane tank.

The standby generators are very noisy and only a jerk would say it is not a problem for you or your neighbors. Sound proofing one is not a practical option nor is putting it a few hundred yards from the house as that means running a longer fuel supply line and electrical line to the power control boxes. 

It is curious how a website for "professional" electricians has so many people that are clueless about power systems that have been around for years. This is not really rocket science but it does require an open mind which is increasinly rare.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Your a bit harsh about silencing generators. I was hooking up a Pink Floyd concert and leaned against a shipping container back stage. It vibrated. Then noticed all of the cords coming out of it.
My facility supplied 1000 amps 208v 3 phase for the chain hoists. I had not realized the boys from Brittan had all of their sound and lights on their own power until then. 1 Meg Rolls Royce diesel 
and not a whisper.
I will grant you that the common Generator Junk sold is noisy, 50% from engine noise. My Onan 6.5 Kw with the new muffler on it is less than 50 db. I just do not like feeding it.


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## BreakYoSelf (Apr 12, 2021)

Lightsmith said:


> The Tesla battery bank is going to last through thousands of recharge cycles and this is why major utility power companies are investing in them with large installations. They are more expensive than a generator but if you live in Texas where the power companies do not provide electricity or natural gas when it is cold and you need it the most, then the options are for a Tesla battery bank or a propane powered standby generator and a very large propane tank.
> 
> The standby generators are very noisy and only a jerk would say it is not a problem for you or your neighbors. Sound proofing one is not a practical option nor is putting it a few hundred yards from the house as that means running a longer fuel supply line and electrical line to the power control boxes.
> 
> It is curious how a website for "professional" electricians has so many people that are clueless about power systems that have been around for years. This is not really rocket science but it does require an open mind which is increasinly rare.


Good post. I do believe that both generator and battery should be used together to provide the best mix of performance. Battery can easily sustain larger surge or peak loads than a generator, acting like a large smoothing capacitor, while the gen provides supplemental power for recharge/capacity.

You are correct... the cycle life of these things can be further optimized by controlling the max state of charge (SoC) and maximum discharge levels. I generally overbuild the capacity so I can stay between max 80% Soc and 20% SoC. For example in a Tesla car the standard cycle charge is about 90% full at most to help with pack life, but you can charge to 100% if you are going to a long trip.

The modules I have in my above photo are Samsung SDI cells... they have an estimated 30+ year service life and 6000+ cycles at 80% capacity degradation. Pretty good stuff.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

SWDweller said:


> Your a bit harsh about silencing generators. I was hooking up a Pink Floyd concert and leaned against a shipping container back stage. It vibrated. Then noticed all of the cords coming out of it.
> My facility supplied 1000 amps 208v 3 phase for the chain hoists. I had not realized the boys from Brittan had all of their sound and lights on their own power until then. 1 Meg Rolls Royce diesel
> and not a whisper.
> I will grant you that the common Generator Junk sold is noisy, 50% from engine noise. My Onan 6.5 Kw with the new muffler on it is less than 50 db. I just do not like feeding it.


As far as silent, is there anything as cool as a big Detroit genset that cranks, goes to 800 rpm for oil pressure, then on to the glorious howl at 1800?


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## Don PDX (Jul 5, 2021)

Kevin said:


> Tesla battery banks?
> 
> You mean the TESLA POWERWALL?


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## Don PDX (Jul 5, 2021)

It is interesting that the 26% federal tax credit is only available if batteries are fed by solar power. 

local PGE power company will pay a small monthly fee to power wall customersif PGE can manage use of the batteries, double if they are fed by grid snd solar.

looks like tax law shoukd be changed.


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Did someone mention space for these "power walls"? What about maintenance? I bet the average homeowner does not have the room to place these things and keep the proper clearances. No basement then where do they put them? People do not maintain their cars, boilers, HVAC systems, exhaust fans... the list goes on. Most likely the people who can maintain these systems are wealthy people. So are we subsidizing people with means?


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I live in Arizona so my biggest concern which was addressed in PW version 2 is the product facing the western sun for 10 hours. PW-1 could not handle Phoenix. Personally I would have them inside somewhere. Not many homes in the state have basements a lot of home do not have garages, car ports.


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## Lightsmith (Oct 8, 2010)

Actually we are all heavily subsidizing the fossil fuel industry which is why in part companies like Exxon and Chevron pay no federal taxes year after year. The $1 trillion spent on the military is in effect a subsidy for the oil and gas companies as has been the costs for the invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq over the last 20 years.

A powerwall takes up less space than an upright freezer in the garage. The lithium-phosphate batteries can be discharged to a 10% SOC level without the damage that occurs with lead based batteries. These new batteries can be discharged more than 2000 times and that covers a lot of outages. Main drawback is that if the power is out with the grid for many days as was the case in most of Texas this past winter, then the powerwall is not going to power the whole house and in particular cooking with electrical appliances or powering an electric strip heater for the house. In Texas though the people were doubly screwed by the utility companies as they lost gas as well as electricity to their homes and so only someone with a standby generator and a large propane tank would have been able to heat and power their home. 

There is development of very larger capacity capacitors that would be more effective than any battery as they can be recharged in seconds instead of hours. We will probably first see them in use for delivery vehicles with inner city use. It would be a very big deal for fleets of UPS trucks to be recharged at a rate of 2 minutes per truck instead of 2 hours per truck on a charger.


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## VELOCI3 (Aug 15, 2019)

Just get some NG fuel cells from Bloom Energy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## minnichds (10 mo ago)

Tesla subcontracts my company for O&M and keeps the prevailing wage.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I have read about large cap banks/batteries used in the LA area for power storage, and moving peak demand through time. I have seen some small cap banks get excited and destroy the 10 gauge material their housing was made from. Glad I was not on the roof when that happened. I was on the ground near the event. 








Tesla Is Plugging a Secret Mega-Battery Into the Texas Grid


The utility-scale battery located outside of Houston will connect to the same grid that faltered in February’s freeze




www.bloomberg.com


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## Syzygy (10 mo ago)

SWDweller said:


> Tesla Is Plugging a Secret Mega-Battery Into the Texas Grid
> 
> 
> The utility-scale battery located outside of Houston will connect to the same grid that faltered in February’s freeze
> ...


Which part of the news is secret? Or did I skip to read that info!
Whatever it is, soon Tesla will be flying I guess..


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I do not know why the link did that. It still goes to the web page, which show a picture of how massive this site is.


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