# :zzzzzzz:



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I was a little short on cable because of the original panel design so it ended up a little messy. I also could have beat out MORE block and brought the small cables in the right side but..........................











It looks great with the deadfront on :thumbsup:










It looks a lot cleaner when I can enter in the bottom like you are supposed to :jester:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Nice work. Surge protection too!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Afraid to turn anything on? :jester:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Afraid to turn anything on? :jester:


 
Heh heh. Waiting for inspector and POCO so it wasn't energized yet.

After about 1/2 hour I got tired of waiting, plugged in the meter and tested/labeled the circuits. Unplugged it real quick when inspector showed up,. then plugged it back in because POCO was a couple hours out. 

Let them sue me.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

Is that surge protector + four breakers less cost than the Siemens
QSA2020SPD, or does it handle bigger surges?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I agree. :sleep1:

Leaving that much cable jacket in the panel is unprofessional hack work, IMO of course. Also, I don't get why you go to such great lengths to avoid using wirenuts in the panel.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

PB must be dead or wounded. No pics??





> Is that surge protector + four breakers less cost than the Siemens
> QSA2020SPD, or does it handle bigger surges?


I don't know anything about that. Does the QSA just plug into the bus or something? And, it's one breaker @ about $7.






> Leaving that much cable jacket in the panel is unprofessional hack work, IMO of course. Also, I don't get why you go to such great lengths to avoid using wirenuts in the panel.


 
I left the sheath intact because I thought it kept he wires bundled better/cleaner where they crossed over the top. I do that sometimes. You don't have to like it, just accept it :yes:

Also, did I go to any lengths to avoid wirenuts? The sheath wouldn't have reached the bottom KO's unles I extended the riser and POCO wires. That would have been silly.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Nice work - 

I would have thought they fill the cells of the block with rebar, and concrete ?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

You turned the empty breakers at the top on :laughing:

I always leave spares off.


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## rexowner (Apr 12, 2008)

220/221 said:


> ...
> I don't know anything about that. Does the QSA just plug into the bus or something? And, it's one breaker @ about $7.


It plugs into the bus, takes two spaces and has 2 15 or 2 20 amp breakers
I like your method better, though.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

:sleep1:Looks good to me..


Peter D said:


> I agree. :sleep1:
> 
> Leaving that much cable jacket in the panel is unprofessional hack work, IMO of course. Also, I don't get why you go to such great lengths to avoid using wirenuts in the panel.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

dronai said:


> Nice work -
> 
> I would have thought they fill the cells of the block with rebar, and concrete ?


 
The fill the top horizontal later (bond beam), the cells next to doors/windows and one cell every 8'. The masons _used_ to leave one bond beam cell ungrouted for the cables. I don't know if they still do that.




> You turned the empty breakers at the top on :laughing:


:jester:


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Nice work. No label maker though?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Nice work as usual. 



rexowner said:


> Is that surge protector + four breakers less cost than the Siemens
> QSA2020SPD, or does it handle bigger surges?


The Eatons beat the QSA in surge current capacity, the smallest Eaton is 35kA and the QSA is 10kA. The QSA has better nominal impulse ratings. I'd go with the Eaton units.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

76nemo said:


> Nice work. No label maker though?


 
I know. I really, really should use one. 

I know we have one or two in the office. I have broken it out on rare occaisions.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

You are the service change master


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I remember wiring those "red" murray main breakers as a kid when I started out, then changing them as they failed in my late teens. Biggest POS panels that ever existed. Small wonder why I'm Sq D , CH,or GE these days.


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## ichimo23 (Nov 30, 2009)

Nice work! Was the surge supressor an upsell, or did the customer request it? I've managed to upsell about a dozen in the last year (residential) while doing other work.


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## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> I remember wiring those "red" murray main breakers as a kid when I started out, then changing them as they failed in my late teens. Biggest POS panels that ever existed. Small wonder why I'm Sq D , CH,or GE these days.


even GE had its fair share of crap breakers. i seen them not trip too


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

ichimo23 said:


> Nice work! Was the surge supressor an upsell, or did the customer request it? I've managed to upsell about a dozen in the last year (residential) while doing other work.


 
Yeah, it was an upsell. I don't know if the things even do anything and I don't know how much......but the installation is pretty simple :laughing:


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

How much for one ? I've never sold one. Looks like you would need some space though. Fastens right to the back, yes ? No buss needed. 2 pole CB feeds it ?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

220/221 said:


> I know. I really, really should use one.
> 
> I know we have one or two in the office. I have broken it out on rare occaisions.


Well, here's the thing, and this is where some will say STFU. You took the time and did a great upgrade, one that'll last for years to come, nice work.

You made the comment once the deadfront was on, it looked great. The truth of the matter was the work was great, but to top it off with handwritten identification in marker on the deadfront made a nice job look somewhat sloppy IMO. Who gives a chit? You're right as well as anyone else who'll ask the same thing. All I'm pointing out was an extra 15 minutes with a label maker would of just iced off an already really nice job. Who's ever going to see it? Not many, but still, good work like you performed is just worthy in my eyes to label it all off with nice looking labels.

As Larson said, good work as usual, but throw that label maker in the shop in your truck and make use of it. Hell, if no-one else is claiming it, keep it in your truck. You take the time to do things right, take a few extra minutes and make it look Kardashian......did I spell that right?:laughing: LOL.

Again, good work man:thumbsup:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> How much for one ? I've never sold one


 
It's about $100 plus the $10 for a 2 pole breaker. I generally install them outside the panels but in some cases, there is room inside.




> Well, here's the thing, and this is where some will say STFU. You took the time and did a great upgrade, one that'll last for years to come, nice work.


I won't say STFU, I *agree* with you. I should use a label maker, no question about it. When I said it looked nice with the deadfront on, I meant because it covered the slightly sloppy cabling.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

220/221 said:


> It's about $100 plus the $10 for a 2 pole breaker. I generally install them outside the panels but in some cases, there is room inside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
The cabling could look like spaghetti noodles and still be perfectly fine. That cabling wasn't sloppy, it was a good job done man. Call me feminine, but I think a label maker would of added a half star to an already five star job. That's all that is, just my lame azz opinion which isn't worth chit. I just think you're cutting yourself short bro'.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

220/221 said:


> I left the sheath intact because I thought it kept he wires bundled better/cleaner where they crossed over the top. I do that sometimes. You don't have to like it, just accept it :yes:


If only you could do the same with SEU cable. :yes:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I like how you set that plastic buffet table up next to your jobs.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> If only you could do the same with SEU cable. :yes:


Never. That **** is evil.:shifty:




> I like how you set that plastic buffet table up next to your jobs.


I'm pushing 60 hard. I simply refuse to work off the ground if I have a choice. :no:


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## pjg (Nov 11, 2008)

in post 2, I don't see any wire connectors in the back of the panel. just curious.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

pjg said:


> in post 2, I don't see any wire connectors in the back of the panel. just curious.


Ahh...you are now introduced to a surface mount panel, western style. That's how they do things out there.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Yeah. We just bring all the cables in thru a snap in bushing, chase nipple or PVC terminal adapter.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Nice work. No label maker though?


Give the man some credit. At least he doesn't label it "lites and plugs" then do the " all the way down under it, as I've seen done on California tract homes. :no:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Give the man some credit. At least he doesn't label it "lites and plugs" then do the " all the way down under it, as I've seen done on California tract homes. :no:


 
Yeah. 

Out here we say "general lighting and receptacles".


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

One day I got motivated and labeled my panel with my label printer just to see what it would look like. I didn't really see it as adding any value to a resi panel.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> One day I got motivated and labeled my panel with my label printer just to see what it would look like. I didn't really see it as adding any value to a resi panel.


Believe it or not the high end people love that stuff otherwise a marker is just as good...:thumbsup:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I never even bother showing the client the inside of the panel, all they really care about is that it doesn't look like crap on the side of their house.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> One day I got motivated and labeled my panel with my label printer just to see what it would look like. I didn't really see it as adding any value to a resi panel.


 
Wait, I'm sorry, who said it added any value Larson? Did I say that? 

Nope:no:


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## ichimo23 (Nov 30, 2009)

One of my pet peeves is a sharpie-labeled panel that looks like the work of a third grader, complete with mis-spellings. I picked up a label maker on sale for $12 a few years ago, and I redo labels anytime I do any extensive work in a panel. Customers seem impressed, and it looks professional. :yes:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Wait, I'm sorry, who said it added any value Larson? Did I say that?


I said it anyway. :yes:


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> I said it. :yes:


 
How does it add value,....'cause he bothered to take 45 seconds to put an offset into the jb above the panel?


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

To make it look Kardashian, you would have to use the black labels with the gold lettering.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

76nemo said:


> How does it add value,....'cause he bothered to take 45 seconds to put an offset into the jb above the panel?


I never said it added value just that it doens't add value.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> I never said it added value just that it doens't add value.


 
It makes for a much better looking overall job J.

You said you were thinking of doing custom end electronic work. Are you going to make it look professional and follow IPC standards, or are you going to cob slobber everything together on a PCA like a six year old boy who solders like a plumber?

I know what you're going to do there, what's the difference with going the extra mile to make a panel look all the more neater? Nothing, it's called pride J :thumbsup:

Quit bucking me........


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

:lol: this is fun

I'll actually 1 up putting an individual label next to each breaker, I just hit the terminal block button on the label printer and set it to 1" or 3/4" and then hit vertical and fill out each space, it makes a nicely formatted label. 


In other news I have a PCB design going in Eagle right now.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Jlarson said:


> :lol: this is fun
> 
> I'll actually 1 up putting an individual label next to each breaker, I just hit the terminal block button on the label printer and set it to 1" or 3/4" and then hit vertical and fill out each space, it makes a nicely formatted label.
> 
> ...


 
Going into Eagle for developement J?


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

We'll stay on track here. I'll get around to some PM's with you once this GD computer stops acting up

Happy Friday friggers:thumbsup: Hehehehehe


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

ichimo23 said:


> One of my pet peeves is a sharpie-labeled panel that looks like the work of a third grader, complete with mis-spellings. I picked up a label maker on sale for $12 a few years ago, and I redo labels anytime I do any extensive work in a panel. Customers seem impressed, and it looks professional. :yes:


If I give you the address will you go over and label it properly for me? 


:laughing:


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