# Personal car



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

The auto market is far from black and white American & foreign any more. Many "foreign" cars are more American than some domestic cars.
Look at the build sheet of a Chevy some time.

Personally I'd rather keep thousands of UAW workers employed building a Toyota, BMW, Honda, even Mercedes, and let some profits go overseas than have Mexicans build a Chevy out of _"foreign and domestic parts"_.

A friend is retired now, but was a hardcore IBEW guy. He started driving Toyota pickups about 10-15 years ago. I said isn't that against the rules. He said nope, these trucks are made in the US now so they are on the "approved" list.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

Trucks can be any color as long as they are *Black and Made In The USA*:thumbup:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Some profits? Most... The minuscule profits of workers is great for the local economy. That's it. Drop in the bucket. I get it. Was looking at ac delco replacement parts, most are made in china. Hard for me to get over this. Why is the economy so volatile. We are doing this crazy balancing act. Putting the greatest country into a tailspin. We are no longer the highest economy. China is. Don't forget to wear your gas mask. My world spins. Pollution is not just one countries problem.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Black Dog said:


> Trucks can be any color as long as they are *Black and Made In The USA*:thumbup:


I got a black 04' lariat. New to me👌


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

cl219um said:


> Why is the economy so volatile. We are doing this crazy balancing act. Putting the greatest country into a tailspin. We are no longer the highest economy. China is.


We sold out to the lowest bidder many years ago. 
If we only had the balls to tax/tariff the sh*t out of imports like other countries do!


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## wendon (Sep 27, 2010)

cl219um said:


> Some profits? Most... The minuscule profits of workers is great for the local economy. That's it. Drop in the bucket. I get it. Was looking at ac delco replacement parts, most are made in china. Hard for me to get over this. Why is the economy so volatile. We are doing this crazy balancing act. Putting the greatest country into a tailspin. We are no longer the highest economy. China is. Don't forget to wear your gas mask. My world spins. Pollution is not just one countries problem.


 I'm actually a Ford man that drives a Government Motors truck and a Toyota van! Build me a Ford van with the quality of my Toyota and I'll gladly buy it. I'm all for USA made but when the quality of USA goods drops below that of foreign made, we're in trouble. Who do you blame for poorly built vehicles? Ford doesn't even build a mini van anymore, do they?


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## Moonshot180 (Apr 1, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> The auto market is far from black and white American & foreign any more. Many "foreign" cars are more American than some domestic cars.
> Look at the build sheet of a Chevy some time.
> 
> Personally I'd rather keep thousands of UAW workers employed building a Toyota, BMW, Honda, even Mercedes, and let some profits go overseas than have Mexicans build a Chevy out of _"foreign and domestic parts"_.
> ...


 
I agree 100% and not to stir up any arguments here either but I have had dodge vehicles & Chevrolet vehicles, all had way too many problems, but I was doing the "right" thing like my Union was telling me to do.

I tried buying American like I was told I needed to do but sometimes, especially with big purchases, I have learnded that you have to go with what is reliable, & and me the Toyota Tacoma has proven very reliable.

I have been driving Toyota Tacomas now for years and that is all I will drive, and I am an IBEW member.


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## Rollie73 (Sep 19, 2010)

I drive all GM and Dodge vehicles but I have been extremely lucky over the past years and had no real issues. One of the nicest GM vehicles I have ever owned is my current 07 Impala SS. The huge majority of the car is Canadian built......drivetrain...body...interior parts.....all Canadian and union built. Speedy is right though, Im not so sure there is a true "foreign" car any more.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

That line is blurry as several have mentioned. I believe the local economy is more important than where the profits go. Look at GM for example, they closed several plants in Detroit then took what profits they did have (And most of the bailout money) and re-invested it to build plants in China and Mexico. 

Screw corporate profits, can't trust those guys anyways. When a plant closes it is devastating to the local economy, see Kenosha/Flint/Pontiac/etc...


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

I drive a Toyota Matrix built in Cambridge ON Canada. While GM, Ford and Chrysler have closed plants and cut production in Canada, Toyota and Honda have gone the other way and invested heavily in expanding their plants, production volumes and work forces. What galls me the most about GM is they cut Union jobs out of Ontario so they could pay 14 bucks an hour to contract workers in Michigan even as they owed an outstanding bailout loan to both the federal and Ontario provincial governments. 


I grew up in a GM factory town that saw the direct effects of this. The place is a retirement community now.


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## nternes (Sep 25, 2012)

This conversation/argument comes up alot at jobs im working at. I personally own 3 toyotas and I will always keep buying them. I used to drive ford trucks but when they hit the 100000 mark they go downhill fast. Lets face it. My wife bought a new Carolla in 05 and has since become my work horse. 200000+ and still rollin hard. I just bought an 88 toyota pickup (a true import) and its bullet proof. Toyotas are made in usa and are mostly union built. Why should I buy american foreign made crap when I could buy foreign american made quality? Just sayin


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## Moonshot180 (Apr 1, 2012)

just for an example, and this may help others here..4 years ago..we bought a Dodge Journey SUV for my wife, brand new..welp, 20K miles later..check engine light is on, and you can tell it is running rough..well, this happened 2 times..and each time the dealer would reset the code, sayin it was just a misfire..but the 3rd time the check engine light came in and we took vehicle back to dealer they said another misfire, but NOW added that the engine head had to be replaced..vehicle just had over 36K miles. Said it would be 2K bucks to replace.

Long story short, the 3.6L V6 motors that Dodge uses for the Journey SUVs have aluminum cylinder heads, and were not engineered with enough aluminum and not enough coolant passages to keep them cool, so they warp..causing misfires, and cylinder detonations if bad enough. After plenty of fighting with Dodge they agreed to replace the defective head...under warranty..but would not replace the other one since (it wasn't broke yet). They also said that they could not replace the other head under warranty even if it did fail since it didn't qualify as part of the drive train.

Long story short, it is dealings like this which I think is why the American based automakers are in trouble.

What we went through I feel is attributed to faulty the engineering design of the motor and then coupled with the fact Dodge will not acknowledge that this should be a recall issue, which should warrant them replacing both cylinder heads.

Also interesting to note is that they did tell me the replacement head is of a different design, more robust, and has more cooling passages.

I also researched this and found that this is a big problem and Dodge is simply putting their head in the sand on this issue. Trying to just reset the codes and send people back out with misfiring engines that could detonate..(that is IF the vehicle is still under warranty)..so that they don’t have to replace anything at any cost to them.

I don’t see how a company can operate in this fashion and expect to be profitable and survive. We have since traded the Dodge Journey and now have a Honda Pilot, that came with a 120K mile bumper to bumper on everything warranty. My Toyota Tacoma also has a bumper to bumper 100K mile warranty.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Once you go German you never go back


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## Moonshot180 (Apr 1, 2012)

Vw?


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

Moonshot180 said:


> just for an example, and this may help others here..4 years ago..we bought a Dodge Journey SUV for my wife, brand new..welp, 20K miles later..check engine light is on, and you can tell it is running rough..well, this happened 2 times..and each time the dealer would reset the code, sayin it was just a misfire..but the 3rd time the check engine light came in and we took vehicle back to dealer they said another misfire, but NOW added that the engine head had to be replaced..vehicle just had over 36K miles. Said it would be 2K bucks to replace.
> 
> Long story short, the 3.6L V6 motors that Dodge uses for the Journey SUVs have aluminum cylinder heads, and were not engineered with enough aluminum and not enough coolant passages to keep them cool, so they warp..causing misfires, and cylinder detonations if bad enough. After plenty of fighting with Dodge they agreed to replace the defective head...under warranty..but would not replace the other one since (it wasn't broke yet). They also said that they could not replace the other head under warranty even if it did fail since it didn't qualify as part of the drive train.
> 
> ...


Bring it in the woods and beat the crap out of it before warranty is up.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

We are a capitalist society

what part of that do we not _'get' _here?

~CS~


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> We are a capitalist society
> 
> what part of that do we not _'get' _here?
> 
> ~CS~


No. We are a global economy. That's what scares me. We as a nation sold out. To china. They are on the brink of unions. They of all need. Amongst pollution regulations. The whole Western Hemisphere would agree. You don't? Maybe your children will. Everyone is going green. Can't support us yet, but its a start.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

cl219um said:


> No. We are a global economy. That's what scares me. We as a nation sold out. To china. They are on the brink of unions. They of all need. Amongst pollution regulations. The whole Western Hemisphere would agree. You don't?


Ok, i'll meet you 1/2 way. In that we (America) exists as a capitalist society within a global economy Cl21.

But you have to separate the _ideal _of capitalism from freedom , democracy, or meritocracy for that matter

Capitalism's true unbridled nature is more a fascist _'big dog wins'_ doctrine than anything else

The first thing they do is buy government to_ side_ with them

In the case of China, the state and the corporate entities are one and the same

They are the _pristine_ example of capitalism, no osha, no epa, no workers comp , no unions , and they'll shoot anyone for so much as complaining about the coffee.

THAT will _never_, not in our lifetime, become a level playing field

And our corporatists who have _zero_ allegiance viewing that *'greener cheap labor grass*' have been playing both ends towards the taxpayer's middle since the inception of nafta, TPP , etc...

~CS~


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Moonshot180 said:


> I agree 100% and not to stir up any arguments here either but I have had dodge vehicles & Chevrolet vehicles, all had way too many problems, but I was doing the "right" thing like my Union was telling me to do.
> 
> I tried buying American like I was told I needed to do but sometimes, especially with big purchases, I have learnded that you have to go with what is reliable, & and me the Toyota Tacoma has proven very reliable.
> 
> I have been driving Toyota Tacomas now for years and that is all I will drive, and I am an IBEW member.


I think the Tacoma is the most American out there.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Zog said:


> Once you go German you never go back


Have you had a chance to take one of those CTS Vs for a spin?
That is a rock solid, bad azzed, daddy's only car.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

With the exception of vans, I've only bought one American car in the last 15 years. That was a Cadillac, and I ended up regretting it.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Have you had a chance to take one of those CTS Vs for a spin?
> That is a rock solid, bad azzed, daddy's only car.


The older one yes, really like it, thinking a ATS-V might be my next car. 

Saw Rick Hendrick buy serial number 00001 of the new 2016 CTS-V last night at Barrett Jackson.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> With the exception of vans, I've only bought one American car in the last 15 years. That was a Cadillac, and I ended up regretting it.


My daily driver is a 2012 Taurus, love it. IBEW assembled in Chicago.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Zog said:


> My daily driver is a 2012 Taurus, love it. IBEW assembled in Chicago.


Ibew or uaw?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Ibew or uaw?


LOL, UAW, my bad:laughing:


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

mcclary's electrical said:


> With the exception of vans, I've only bought one American car in the last 15 years. That was a Cadillac, and I ended up being a rubberhead:laughing: heck with America. No. Really I am no better. I drive my American cars through thick and thin for 15 years. Toyotas aren't out of the question. Had a Mazda b3000 I drove for work as a road warrior that I drove to the junkyard. 270k on it. Never stuck more than a serpentine belt or an oil change into it. Fourth gear gone. Never doubted it. Ford with a Japanese motor.


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## Cl906um (Jul 21, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Ok, i'll meet you 1/2 way. In that we (America) exists as a capitalist society within a global economy Cl21.
> 
> But you have to separate the _ideal _of capitalism from freedom , democracy, or meritocracy for that matter
> 
> ...


I have never heard of tpp until it was too late. Why are we giving in to so many trade agreements? Who benefits besides the walmarts of the world? Back assed concept of cheaper labor in sweat shops abroad.


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