# Roof penetration..



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I have to wire some lighting fixtures on the side of a commercial building and the feed has to come through the roof.

I am thinking about using a pitch pocket and a piece of FNC.

Anyone have a better idea, customer does not want to see conduit.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I have to wire some lighting fixtures on the side of a commercial building and the feed has to come through the roof.
> 
> I am thinking about using a pitch pocket and a piece of FNC.
> 
> Anyone have a better idea, customer does not want to see conduit.


you looked all around the roof, no place that's existing you can get out thru ? otherwise, I guess not much else you can do (it's nice if there's a parapet you can get up above snow line and set a box, but if it's existing I guess you would have thought of that)


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I can't picture exactly what you mean. I have used pich pockets with emt changed over to carflex. On the the last condo building I did the HVAC guys built these kinda doghouse like enclosures. Had a lid with a sorta roof and no sealant was required to keep water from getting in.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I run the FNC through the middle of the pitch pocket and fill it with spray foam.

I shave back the foam so it just over hangs the pocket and tar it up.

For those of you who will wonder, there is no Scotchkote used in this installation


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> I run the FNC through the middle of the pitch pocket and fill it with spray foam.
> 
> I shave back the foam so it just over hangs the pocket and tar it up.
> 
> For those of you who will wonder, there is no Scotchkote used in this installation


 

Those little doghouses where the best things I ever saw. 
Are you going thru the roof then out the side with a wire for light? If so then I would use a pitch pocket also.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

What's a pitch pocket? 

Something for a RTCU?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I have to wire some lighting fixtures on the side of a commercial building and the feed has to come through the roof.
> 
> I am thinking about using a pitch pocket and a piece of FNC.
> 
> Anyone have a better idea, customer does not want to see conduit.


If you are feeding several fixtures, once you would come through the roof how would you conceal the conduit up to, or between, the fixtures? At what elevation are the fixtures to be placed? Could you go through, possibly, a block wall below the roof line to the fixtures?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> What's a pitch pocket?
> 
> Something for a RTCU?


It is a square box that gets screwed to the roof deck, mostly used by AC guys to get their lines to the RTU


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> If you are feeding several fixtures, once you would come through the roof how would you conceal the conduit up to, or between, the fixtures? At what elevation are the fixtures to be placed? Could you go through, possibly, a block wall below the roof line to the fixtures?


It is a 100 yr. old building and there is a (5) ft. high wall that faces the street.

I am using outdoor round boxes on both sides of the wall, with 1/2 PVC on the back of the wall to feed the fixtures.

I am going to use 1/2 nipples to connect boxes through the block wall.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> It is a 100 yr. old building and there is a (5) ft. high wall that faces the street.
> 
> I am using outdoor round boxes on both sides of the wall, with 1/2 PVC on the back of the wall to feed the fixtures.
> 
> I am going to use 1/2 nipples to connect boxes through the block wall.


Concrete/ brick/ wall?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> What's a pitch pocket?
> 
> Something for a RTCU?


a pitch pocket is any kind of roof penetration (usually for flat or nearly flat roofs) that you run pipes or wires through. they are usually made with a flange at the bottom that can be roofed in, and are called pitch pockets because the older roofs used tar (otherwise known as pitch) to fill in the space around the pipes after the trades were done.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

One word ....


_Scotchkote_​


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Concrete/ brick/ wall?


Block wall with rubble filling the holes


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> One word ....
> 
> 
> 
> _Scotchkote_​


Bob.. (2) words for you




















Iced Tea :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

HD is now selling imitation Scotchkote in green, orange, and red.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Bob.. (2) words for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not tonight. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> HD is now selling imitation Scotchkote in green, orange, and red.


Must be that "Liquid Tape" knockoff they have on the shelf.

If it don't stink, it won't keep the water out :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Must be that "Liquid Tape" knockoff they have on the shelf.
> 
> If it don't stink, it won't keep the water out :thumbsup:


isn't that what scothkote is - liquid tape?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> It is a 100 yr. old building and there is a (5) ft. high wall that faces the street.
> 
> I am using outdoor round boxes on both sides of the wall, with 1/2 PVC on the back of the wall to feed the fixtures.
> 
> I am going to use 1/2 nipples to connect boxes through the block wall.


That'll work.:thumbsup: Will you use a PE cell?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> isn't that what scothkote is - liquid tape?


 
No.. Liquid Tape is used to repair outer sheath on NM and Scotchkote puts a hard film over anything you brush it on.

Also works great on water pipe clamps to stop rust and corrosion


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> That'll work.:thumbsup: Will you use a PE cell?


No.. I am connecting to existing T/C.

Normally I use a PE cell and a TC to control lights.

I have timer set for 4:00 year round.. sends power to PE cell which controls relay and that turns lights on at sunset.

You never have to adjust TC for different sunset times throughout the year.

TC turns off what ever time store wants..

I also put a SP switch in line with the PE cell to turn the lights on during the day for service.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> No.. I am connecting to existing T/C.
> 
> Normally I use a PE cell and a TC to control lights.
> 
> ...


Good install. I like the idea of the S/P switch for a disconnect:thumbsup:.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Good install. I like the idea of the S/P switch for a disconnect:thumbsup:.


Not a disconnect.. it bypasses the PE cell to turn the lights on during the day

Switch is parallel between the red and black feeding the PE cell


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'd probably run EMT up through the witches hat then switche to LFMC myself. If it's NEC compliant and you like it go for it!


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

nitro71 said:


> I'd probably run EMT up through the witches hat then switche to LFMC myself. If it's NEC compliant and you like it go for it!


This is less than 1/2 mile to ocean, salt air would eat up the emt, why I am using FNC and PVC.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I run the FNC through the middle of the pitch pocket and fill it with spray foam.
> 
> I shave back the foam so it just over hangs the pocket and tar it up.
> 
> For those of you who will wonder, there is no Scotchkote used in this installation


Did you try scotchkote?


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## voltz (Jun 2, 2010)

Black4Truck;246655
For those of you who will wonder said:


> but what if you mix it with something else :whistling2:


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## NY ELECTRIC (Sep 27, 2009)

For the little I can add to this discussion. Photos of pitch pocket before and after.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> No.. I am connecting to existing T/C.
> 
> Normally I use a PE cell and a TC to control lights.
> 
> ...



That's exactly what I do. It's a little bit more money to set it up this way but I've never had a customer complain about the set up. They don't have to do anything and the lights always come on at dusk.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Not a disconnect.. it bypasses the PE cell to turn the lights on during the day
> 
> Switch is parallel between the red and black feeding the PE cell


Even fancier. That works well with motion sensors too!


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> That's exactly what I do. It's a little bit more money to set it up this way but I've never had a customer complain about the set up. They don't have to do anything and the lights always come on at dusk.


 

A lot of my customers want their signs off after they close at night. I usually do a time clock to shut it off at night after they close and a photocell to cut it on at dusk.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> A lot of my customers want their signs off after they close at night. I usually do a time clock to shut it off at night after they close and a photocell to cut it on at dusk.


I wish I could get into a little more commercial maintenance stuff. How did you get your commercial customers?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I wish I could get into a little more commercial maintenance stuff. How did you get your commercial customers?


 
The old commercial customers dad picked up over the years by word of mouth or they saw some of his past jobs. We have a few customers that own multiple shopping centers. They have their own maint guys but they won't touch the electrical. As one of them said...."That electricity stuff will kill you dead". The newest commercial customers I have came from maintaince guys who changed jobs and recommended me their bosses.
My website also helps I think.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NY ELECTRIC said:


> For the little I can add to this discussion. Photos of pitch pocket before and after.


 That is what I do also. Here is a pic of a rec that was installed long before the roof went down.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I wish I could get into a little more commercial maintenance stuff. How did you get your commercial customers?


I ride around and look for businesses who have either outdoor lights or signs that are on during daylight hours.

Best time is find these customers is in the spring when the times change.

Just stop in, mention saving them money, and leave a card.

Smart owners won't think twice about hiring you to make the lights automatic.

I also like using the TC - PE cell method and putting a definite purpose contactor to control the lights.

The contactor takes the stress off the PE cell and it will last for many years before burning out. :thumbsup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I ride around and look for businesses who have either outdoor lights or signs that are on during daylight hours.
> 
> Best time is find these customers is in the spring when the times change.
> 
> ...



I suppose you would need the contactor for a large load where more than one circuit for lighting is required. Like AFCI circuit breakers, I've never even wired a contactor other than in trade school some years ago.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> I suppose you would need the contactor for a large load where more than one circuit for lighting is required. Like AFCI circuit breakers, I've never even wired a contactor other than in trade school some years ago.


I wish I had never installed an arc fault! Not so much now but when they first came out they were known to be a pain.
A lot of the new construction jobs I bid have lighting contactors on the plans. We usually build our own.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> I wish I had never installed an arc fault! Not so much now but when they first came out they were known to be a pain.
> A lot of the new construction jobs I bid have lighting contactors on the plans. We usually build our own.


Mot of my work falls under the NJ Rehab subcode. Kitchens, baths, basements, service upgrades - unless there's an addition - all fall under the rehab code. Even if you decide to tap off an existing circuit for the new addition, still no AFCI requirement. But if you run a new circuit to the addition only then does it need to be AFCI-protected. Tamper resistant receptacles are being enforced as are the ground blocks for CATV and phone blocks.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> Mot of my work falls under the NJ Rehab subcode. Kitchens, baths, basements, service upgrades - unless there's an addition - all fall under the rehab code. Even if you decide to tap off an existing circuit for the new addition, still no AFCI requirement. But if you run a new circuit to the addition only then does it need to be AFCI-protected. Tamper resistant receptacles are being enforced as are the ground blocks for CATV and phone blocks.


 

We have to arc fault if we extend a circuit.
We do tampers also
Inter system bonding terminal also.

I like the sound of THAT part of the rehab code anyway!:thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I suppose you would need the contactor for a large load where more than one circuit for lighting is required. Like AFCI circuit breakers, I've never even wired a contactor other than in trade school some years ago.


I use a contactor on even small loads.. they really work well.

Just mount one of these in a metal 6X6 pull box..

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5B132?Pid=search


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> I use a contactor on even small loads.. they really work well.
> 
> Just mount one of these in a metal 6X6 pull box..
> 
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5B132?Pid=search


 


How do you clean the scotchkote out when you have to replace a faulty contactor?:jester::laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> How do you clean the scotchkote out when you have to replace a faulty contactor?:jester::laughing:


Just spray it with gasoline and the resulting fire melts it right off :whistling2:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Black4Truck said:


> Just spray it with gasoline and the resulting fire melts it right off :whistling2:


 

You answered pretty quick. Was that how you did it the first time or the last time?:whistling2::laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> You answered pretty quick. Was that how you did it the first time or the last time?:whistling2::laughing:


Well I'm still here, so it has to be the both.. :blink:


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