# Cat5e and 120v same raceway?



## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

An you run in same taceway, emt, and/or wiremold??


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

No
Always pass data at 90 deg angle to line voltage.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

If I recall correctly, IF the insulation of the CAT cable and the other conductors are the same, Code-wise yes you could..but get ready for callbacks for data errors and other problems. Bad idea all around. And as wirenutting said, they should be run at a 90 degree angle to each other when they cross.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

I don't believe you can. CAT5E is low-voltage IIRC (hence max segment length of 100 meters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAT5e#Maximum_cable_segment_length ). You'll have to check the code book though for raceway requirements (I know for LV wiring for door alarms and thermostats, sharing of the raceway with line-voltage is not allowed, assuming (I know, I know) same thing here).


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*hunch*

that's what I thought. Well, we have 1 - 1" conduit coming down off a ceiling at 22ft off floor going abour 10 ft then entering a wiremold (about 2"x2"). How bout zip tying to conduit then running in wiremold (still seperated from 120V in the conduit??? 

No other way down ? Any ideas. From above down to a cashiers station with 1 existing conduit and powerpole?


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Cletis said:


> that's what I thought. Well, we have 1 - 1" conduit coming down off a ceiling at 22ft off floor going abour 10 ft then entering a wiremold (about 2"x2"). How bout zip tying to conduit then running in wiremold (still seperated from 120V in the conduit???
> 
> No other way down ? Any ideas. From above down to a cashiers station with 1 existing conduit and powerpole?


Yes you can do that. But you can use panduit and tape it to the TW.
Wait, is that power pole split core?
If so power in one side, data in the other. 

Data can be zip tied to TW then see if you can divide the 2x2 and keep data in that half. 
I don't remember the smallest wiremold that has the sleeve.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Doubt it*

Don't think it's split core? Just solid 2x2" or maybe 3"x3" the more I think about it. Wish I took a pic. Here is setup. Existing countertop which powerpole goes into. Someone cut a 3" hole inside and ran 1" Flex for existing 120V box. they shoved it up in powerpole. It's in their pretty tight actually. I don't know how far the flex goes though?. We are adding 1 more 20 amp cir., 1 - 2pole ciruit induction stove top, and a few data lines and only one way down.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Click the link for the wiremold online catalog. 

http://www.legrand.us/wiremold.aspx

You might find the divider for what ever size you need.


If all the power is in the greenfield, I would feel ok about dropping the cat 5 down the wiremold. 
If you can't do that, then just use the plastic panduit/wiremold down the side.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*tomorrow*

Unfortunatley, it's 3rd shift tomorrow and no time. We won't know til were up there how far conduit goes down into the powerpole and how it even transitions to the flex. So, it fits and separated a bit we will run along emt then down into power pole and if not worst case just zip tie down the whole thing and come back with panduit another day to clean it all up. 

:thumbup:

I'll take pics


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Cletis said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I'll take pics


Ya, we like pics.


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## Barjack (Mar 28, 2010)

Just make sure you are compliant with 300.11 (B)



> *300.11 Securing and Supporting.
> 
> (B) Raceways Used as Means of Support.*
> Raceways shall be used only as a means of support for other raceways,
> ...


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

You should not zip tie data cable to conduits but it is done every day...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mxslick said:


> If I recall correctly, IF the insulation of the CAT cable and the other conductors are the same, said, they should be run at a 90 degree angle to each other when they cross.


In general no, but in the few times you might be allowed to you would have to have the proper insulation as you suggest.


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## EC2253 (Mar 7, 2008)

725.136 Separation from Electric Light, Power, Class 1,
Non–Power-Limited Fire Alarm Circuit Conductors, and
Medium-Power Network-Powered Broadband Communications
Cables.
(A) General. Cables and conductors of Class 2 and Class 3
circuits shall not be placed in any cable, cable tray, compartment,
enclosure, manhole, outlet box, device box, raceway,
or similar fitting with conductors of electric light,
power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm circuits, and
medium-power network-powered broadband communications
circuits unless permitted by 725.136(B) through (I).


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Yup, 725 is where it says "NO, you can't run Cat 5 with the power."

Ironic that this would be asked here, as there is a very lively discussion on another forum regarding the application of 725, and over there I'm arguing for a very limited application of the article.

Cat 5 + AC current = data corruption. Code or not, why would you do it? That's like putting a hole in your change pocket.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

I am in the hospital atm (last round of chemo before surgery) so did not have access to my Code book, thanks.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Amish Electrician said:


> Cat 5 + AC current = data corruption.


He never said it was data, as a matter of fact he never said what it was for.

Cat 5 is being used for more things all the time.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

BBQ said:


> He never said it was data, as a matter of fact he never said what it was for.
> 
> Cat 5 is being used for more things all the time.


Sounds like he's hooking up some registers (I do believe registers were mentioned) so it is most likely a data connection. Even if it was just communications, you're looking at corruption. Just a bad idea all around.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

BBQ said:


> He never said it was data, as a matter of fact he never said what it was for.
> 
> Cat 5 is being used for more things all the time.


How many doorbells I have run across .... or garage door sensors.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

macmikeman said:


> How many doorbells I have run across .... or garage door sensors.


Recently installed motorized projection screens in conference rooms, the factory supplied the control switch with a Cat 5 patch cord to connect it to the screen. The screen and the switch had female RJ-45s.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

Slightly different application, but unless I am mistaken, some network hardware sold will send 120v along one of the unused pairs in a CAT??? wire.

I remember looking at a wireless bridge once that had an external antenna that only required a CAT5 wire. The portion of the bridge that was inside connected to the 120v.

So, what's up with that?


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

It's not 120. It's 48 VDC power over ethernet.


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## EC2253 (Mar 7, 2008)

There is an exception under 725.130 where the class 2 circuit is reclassified to a class 1 I have seen this in gas dispensers (the manufacturer can call it a class 1)


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Yeah. Its just for cash register/pos system. There is no other practical way to run it. All other regiters are bundled same way, just like every walmart


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> Yeah. Its just for cash register/pos system. There is no other practical way to run it. All other regiters are bundled same way, just like every walmart


The power and data are in seperate raceways at Walmart just like any other store.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*W*



BBQ said:


> The power and data are in seperate raceways at Walmart just like any other store.


I really don't hang out in wal-mart. It's too low class for me, but, I'll have to make a trip tonight on way to job. I usually just remember seeing 1 powerpole per register. I guess they have dividers in them ?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> I really don't hang out in wal-mart. It's too low class for me, but, I'll have to make a trip tonight on way to job. I usually just remember seeing 1 powerpole per register. I guess they have dividers in them ?


Yes, they have dividers, or in some cases are UL listed manufactured wiring systems.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*live*

Stay tuned, I'll be taking live action shots tonight starting at 10 ! I'll try to separate as much as possible


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

Cletis said:


> I really don't hang out in wal-mart. It's not low class enough for me.


:whistling2:


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

jeffmoss26 said:


> It's not 120. It's 48 VDC power over ethernet.



10-4. I could not remember the "power over ethernet" term, but the 120v info came 3rd hand verbal from a sales rep. No direct experience.



Maybe I will remember it now.:thumbsup:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Cletis said:


> I really don't hang out in wal-mart. It's too low class for me, but, I'll have to make a trip tonight on way to job. I usually just remember seeing 1 powerpole per register. I guess they have dividers in them ?


Here is a Wiremold TPP cut sheet. 

http://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Wiremold/telepoles.pdf


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*yeah*



Wirenuting said:


> Here is a Wiremold TPP cut sheet.
> 
> http://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Wiremold/telepoles.pdf


thanks. I'm really not even sure what this thing is. It's more like a square wireway. No port, inserts, openings,etc...I'll take close ups tonight on job. Tonight it's GET R DONE !!!


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Cletis said:


> thanks. I'm really not even sure what this thing is. It's more like a square wireway. No port, inserts, openings,etc...I'll take close ups tonight on job. Tonight it's GET R DONE !!!


Don't forget to take a pic of that hot babe at the service counter.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Cletis said:


> thanks. I'm really not even sure what this thing is. It's more like a square wireway. No port, inserts, openings,etc...I'll take close ups tonight on job. Tonight it's GET R DONE !!!


Why cant you sleeve the 5e in EMT going through the raceway? Our code lets us do that with Aluminium dividers in trunking as its classed as a mechanical seperation though I have never done that in more than 3m running in parralell.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

I've worked for Wal-Mart, was hired on as part of the remodel crew and then hired on permanent. Not sure how everything was brought down, but most of the cabling seemed to be just run down together. We grabbed wires and hooked 'em all up. 

Just saying. Wish I had something more useful to add.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

janagyjr said:


> I've worked for Wal-Mart,
> 
> Just saying. Wish I had something more useful to add.


How about saying,,,,, Paper or Plastic?

Just kidding. 

Glad to read that your on the mend and almost ready to get back at it.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Hey Cletis,
Is your picture on this site yet? 


http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

janagyjr said:


> I've worked for Wal-Mart, was hired on as part of the remodel crew and then hired on permanent. Not sure how everything was brought down, but most of the cabling seemed to be just run down together. We grabbed wires and hooked 'em all up.
> 
> Just saying. Wish I had something more useful to add.


I did remodels at Wal-Mart several years ago, and the power poles were similar to the ones mentioned earlier. The ones that we used had a couple whips brought out of the AC section. All I had to do was tie a piece of jack chain to 4 cat5 cables and let the chain pull the cabling down in the comm section. Fish the chain out of the data hole, wire and mount a 4-port data jack. Done deal! Have a good one.
-Jim


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> How about saying,,,,, Paper or Plastic?
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> Glad to read that your on the mend and almost ready to get back at it.


lol

Thanks, it's going to be nice to actually get (back) to work. This sitting around doing nothing is driving me nutso.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If the wiring in the power pole is mc cable and not individual conductors then you could have low voltage and high voltage together.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Cletis said:


> thanks. I'm really not even sure what this thing is. It's more like a square wireway. No port, inserts, openings,etc...I'll take close ups tonight on job. Tonight it's GET R DONE !!!


Bet it is made by 'Boston Retail' 

http://www.bostonretail.com/power-modular-systems


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Its begun...


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

jeffmoss26 said:


> You should not zip tie data cable to conduits but it is done every day...


i pull the cat 6 REALLY TIGHT, and then support the emt off the cable
with tie wraps... you have a problem with that?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok. Live action shots. Luckily there were already spare circuits. Grounds up always. I didnt wrap
The stranded like that either


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Cletis said:


> Ok. Live action shots. Luckily there were already spare circuits. Grounds up always. I didnt wrap
> The stranded like that either


Thanks for the pics. 
And I see it was a power pole.


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## janagyjr (Feb 7, 2011)

Looks pretty good


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## Glen Walker (Dec 30, 2009)

600V Cat 5E
http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releas...ontrol-centers-and-switch-gear-106611573.html


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