# about colorblind



## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

it can make a lot of difference. If you cannot distinguish between red and green, you could have a really big problem. We often mark one of the hot phases with red or use red wire and obvioulsy a grounding conductor is green. Mix those up and you could have an explosive and deadly situation.

I would talk with the apprenticeship commitee before getting too deep into this.


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## slash (Mar 20, 2008)

well I can distinguish that color but those color dots that use to test ur colorblindness is making me crazy. so what other colors does electrician will encounter during their career?


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

fromwhat I understand red-green and blue-yellow are the two most common types of colorblindness. Either one could cause a potentially lethal mistake. Blue and yellow are common phase colors and if they happen to be used together and they are switched, BOOM.

Seriously, talk with the apprenticeship people. I see some serious problems with this but they may have dealt with this before and be able to provide a more informed answer. One that could allow you to be an electrician.


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## dSilanskas (Mar 11, 2008)

Slash when I was interested in becoming an electrician I asked my teacher at the time if it mattered that I was color blind and he said that it really didn't. He was right I have been doing it since 94 and dont have any real issues. Go for it and good luck!


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## slash (Mar 20, 2008)

Thank you, yes i will do it. may i ask something, when u were going for your licence did you take any exam or test?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I doubt any employer worth working for would be able to accomodate you. Just be open and honest about it.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I doubt any employer worth working for would be able to accomodate you. Just be open and honest about it.


On several occasions when I've applied for jobs a part of the app process has included a color id test. A single sheet of paper with the 10? basic colors we're likely to run across (about 1/2" x 2").


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## Thomp (Feb 11, 2008)

slash said:


> hi I am interested on taking a apprentice electrician for 4 years but I am colorblind. Does electrician have to have perfect color eyesight to be successful? IM scared I wont get a licence at the end of my 4 years coz i failed a color test.
> 
> Thank you advise me on this one


What colors do you have problems with? There are different type of color blindness. I knew a guy who had problem with pastels. He had to quit and become a inspector.


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## jrclen (Oct 23, 2007)

I've worked with three color blind electricians over the years and they didn't seem to have a problem. One was doing mostly residential, the other two were in commercial and industrial. I think they got used to the subtle shade differences in colors.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

It really depends on the severity of your color blindness. I am partially color blind, and I have a very tough time with different shades of greens and browns. I am able to distinguish between green wire and brown wire though, as they are right in the middle of the color scale. I have been an electrician for over 15 years and never had a problem yet.

Chris


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

I've worked around a data guy who is red-green color blind. I thought he had to be joking, how can you punch down hundreds of data cables and not know which is red and which is green:blink: . His secret, each pair of data lines inside the cable is twisted differently to prevent crosstalk. He would look at the amount of twist to determine the color, have someone confirm his layout, and punch it all down.


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Buddy of mine worked with a guy who had a sort of tonal blindness. He wired up a lighting contactor (277volts) and when they turned it on, BOOM! Browns into greys into yellow. It never hurts to get a second opinion. I'm not saying you shouldn't work, but someone could get hurt or killed. Perhaps yourself. Sounds like yours isn't too bad, so it may not be a problem. Good luck!


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

I have never passed the dot test as given, but I've worked in electronics and electricity for over forty years. I long ago discovered performance on the dot test depends a lot on the lighting. I took one once in the sunlight and passed it just fine!

I have sometimes had problems with subtle shades of purple and lavender, but nothing I wasn't able to overcome.

Of course, I'm not the one you have to get past!


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## slash (Mar 20, 2008)

tnx for the advise. some are honest and harsh but thats ok while others are funny, mate i gotta do that dot test in the middle of the sun wanna try it bad hehehe. Maybe ill become a welder aye? hehehe


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## slash (Mar 20, 2008)

Thomp said:


> What colors do you have problems with? There are different type of color blindness. I knew a guy who had problem with pastels. He had to quit and become a inspector.


well I can distinguish any of the 8 colors in single crayons. I just find it hard when colors are mixed with other colors. for example, light brown and orange are next to each other or light yellow and light green or purplelish colors


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## Super_33 (Jan 12, 2008)

slash said:


> well I can distinguish any of the 8 colors in single crayons. I just find it hard when colors are mixed with other colors. for example, light brown and orange are next to each other or light yellow and light green or purplelish colors


I think you'll be fine. You may have infrequent occasions when you're unsure of a color but not often. If you're unsure simply ask somebody else. A large portion of the job doesn't include colors at all.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Super_33 said:


> I think you'll be fine. You may have infrequent occasions when you're unsure of a color but not often. If you're unsure simply ask somebody else. A large portion of the job doesn't include colors at all.


I take it you don;t really do electrical work. Colors are an everyday thing in the electrical field. And asking somebody else; What happens when you are working by yourself. I work with somebody else about 5% of the time. The rest of the time, it's just little ol' me.

and to taking the dot test in the sun; how often are you working in bright sunlight?

what this all gets back to is why type of color blindness and how severe. Making one mistake can mean your life.

You need to be open with th apprenticehsip coordinator. Hiding such a problem could become a very big problem. Negligence and the resulting liability for damage or injury can take everything you have. And for those that doubt your mistake could cause you legal problems; ask the guy in (I think it is ) Vermont that is setting his butt in prison. He wired a heater wrong, it caused a fire and a little kid died. He was tried and convicted in a criminal court. On top of that, (don;t know if the family did or did not sue) he could be held civilly liable for a lot of money.

This field is nothing to take lightly. You may be able to do just fine or you may not be able to deal with it at all. WE here cannot make that call. We have no way of knowing how bad your blindness is or isn;t.

All I am saying is; be careful and thoughtful about this.


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## Mackie (Mar 16, 2008)

OP,

I would go with someone to the depot and look at all the different colored wires there - can you identify the colors? Can you distinguish them easily? 

If you go for the job, you'll just have to adapt in different ways, as an example, blind people set their wallet up so they know what denomination bill is what and deaf people set their phone / doorbell up with little lights. That kind of idea...

If you could do all of that then why not? Most places are EOE and are legally obligated to make reasonable concessions for people with disabilities.

As an aside, my brother has the same problem as you. He wanted to be a pilot in the Air Force but obviously couldn't. He is now a Major in Intelligence and has worked in the Pentagon and other super secret and cool places. Things have a way of working out even if they don't go the way you thought you wanted.

-best wishes.


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

I am color blind and have made adjustments over the years to enable me to work alone. This trade is no joke as has already been said. Regardless if you work for yourself or someone else YOU are responsible for the work you perform. In my local if you perform work incorrectly you can be made to go back and correct the work and not be paid for the time to correct. Yes there are various degrees of color blindness and lighting conditions that will effect your ability to tell what those colors you have difficultity with. In the late 70's early 80's wire manufactures seem to produce a lot of wire with light pastel colors, this just about drove me crazy as I have problems with pastel colors but not primary colors. I have had problems in drop ceilings while doing alarm work with flash lights but, once I drop back into natural or office lighting let my eyes adjust for a minute, I can get back to the work and double check to ensure I have not cross connected any conductors. You may on occasion be required to take a physical and color blindness test to work for a contractor, that contractor may not hire you if you fail the test.:001_huh:


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Mackie said:


> If you could do all of that then why not? Most places are EOE and are legally obligated to make reasonable concessions for people with disabilities.
> 
> .


there would be no _reasonable_ accomodation to fulfill ADA requirement in this situation. There is nothing that could be done to allow a person that could not actually tell the difference to allow them to safely work.


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## Mackie (Mar 16, 2008)

nap said:


> there would be no _reasonable_ accomodation to fulfill ADA requirement in this situation. There is nothing that could be done to allow a person that could not actually tell the difference to allow them to safely work.


That may unfortunately be so, depending on all of the various factors discussed in this thread.

Well... there's always plumbing! Black, white, copper, brass!


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Mackie said:


> That may unfortunately be so, depending on all of the various factors discussed in this thread.
> 
> Well... there's always plumbing! Black, white, copper, brass!


hell, apparently they don;t even have to worry about the "hot on left, cold on right" thing anymore. I have been scalded more than once by this screw up


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## Super_33 (Jan 12, 2008)

nap said:


> I take it you don;t really do electrical work. Colors are an everyday thing in the electrical field. And asking somebody else; What happens when you are working by yourself. I work with somebody else about 5% of the time. The rest of the time, it's just little ol' me.


Yes, I do really do electical work. The electrical job varies from electrician to electrician across the US. You cannot sum up "electrical work" based on your job alone nap. What I do is lay out a building, box it, drill it, pipe it, then finally pull it and splice it. Now, in what I just said how much of it actually consists of colors. And based on what he told us about his personal experience of colorblindness, he has no problem with direct colors, it's certain shades of those colors he has a problem with. In my experience, shades of colors aren't seen very often. Maybe in your field he wouldn't be as fortunate. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

> =Super_33;21357] then finally pull it and splice it. Now, in what I just said how much of it actually consists of colors.


that work right there. normay, typical, common work for an electrician deals with wires. That is the heaert of our work. Those wires have colors and a mistake can be deadly.



> And based on what he told us about his personal experience of colorblindness, he has no problem with direct colors, it's certain shades of those colors he has a problem with.


that is why I stated in my (and the first repsonse) that OP should speak with whomeer is in charge of the apprenticehip he is condsidereing. He needs the direct input of a person that; 1. makes decisions concerning this and 2.can actually make some sort of judgement call since we obviously cannot test the OP's vision.



> In my experience, shades of colors aren't seen very often.


shades of colors? everything you see execpt the base colors are shades of colors. Unless the wire is the most base blue, red, or yellow, it is a shade. Ever notice how close certain greens and black look in low light conditions? Orange and brown, tan and old white wire and many other comparisons can be the cause of a dangerous mix up. I have seen people with supposedly no color perception problems make those mistakes. If there is a color perception problem, that much more care must be taken. 


> Maybe in your field he wouldn't be as fortunate.


all electricians deal with colors way to often to minimize the problem and the concern of the situation.


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## Super_33 (Jan 12, 2008)

I've met a severely colorblind electrician that doesn't touch wire. He prefers to spend all his time drilling, boxing, and piping. In new construction where there's 20 electricians on one job something like that can be arranged in most cases. The contractor was aware of his colorblindness so they were more then happy to accomodate him since he is smart and fast at what he does. On the other hand, the wire puller on this same jobsite (condo buildings) was mildly colorblind and pulled every unit there without a problem, there were a total of 119 units. That is what I was trying to get across, there's ways around the colorblind problem if it is that bad of a problem. If you give me a colorblind person I can guarantee you I can find work for him. But like the colorblind wire puller I mentioned above and several posts in this thread, most colorblind electricians aren't faced with a problem at work.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Too many variables to say.
The one thing I noticed however, was the lack of advice to seek medical help (i'm sure you have).The advances are/may be there.Explore that aswell. One never knows what they may find.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

Super_33 said:


> I've met a severely colorblind electrician that doesn't touch wire. He prefers to spend all his time drilling, boxing, and piping. In new construction where there's 20 electricians on one job something like that can be arranged in most cases. The contractor was aware of his colorblindness so they were more then happy to accomodate him since he is smart and fast at what he does. On the other hand, the wire puller on this same jobsite (condo buildings) was mildly colorblind and pulled every unit there without a problem, there were a total of 119 units. That is what I was trying to get across, there's ways around the colorblind problem if it is that bad of a problem. If you give me a colorblind person I can guarantee you I can find work for him. But like the colorblind wire puller I mentioned above and several posts in this thread, most colorblind electricians aren't faced with a problem at work.


these situations may be possible in Chicago but in smaller areas, it is less likely to be able to be worked out. In my local, there is only 2 classifications.

resi wireman and JIW. You do it all.

Of course if an employer is willing to do something that allows this to work that is fine but as a general situation, there are many problems that come with the territory.

Take note; I have never said it is impossible. I specifically stated he needs to research and investigate the possibility and how it will be recieved by those in charge of the apprenticeship. It may work, it may not. We are not in a position to make that call.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

My comment about sunlight is to imply that the lighting can have a lot to do with my ability to distinguish colors, especially when they are bundled close together and small like date and phone wires, but data and phone wires are not what I make money on.

I like the idea of going to a supply house and looking at the THWN and THHN there. If you can see those colors, you can see color well enough (in my opinion).

Red-green color blindness is a male problem. If push comes to shove, work with a female -- preferably a nice looking one!


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## Super_33 (Jan 12, 2008)

waco said:


> Red-green color blindness is a male problem. If push comes to shove, work with a female -- preferably a nice looking one!


I like the way you think.:thumbup: 

But if she's too nice looking it won't matter what the colors are because you probably won't be doing much work at all.


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## jrclen (Oct 23, 2007)

nap said:


> hell, apparently they don;t even have to worry about the "hot on left, cold on right" thing anymore. I have been scalded more than once by this screw up


A dyslexic plumber? :laughing:


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