# parking lot pole light repairs



## skipperone

I have a customer who wants me to start doing his pole light repairs. I have found on hpsodium wall packs that if the ballast is still in good shape that the reason for the lamp not working is usually the ignitor. Any input on that? Also have hpsodium lamps on poles doing the blinkity blink thing, trying to start up getting about half way to full brightness then turns off again and starts all over.Any thoughts on what is usually the problem??? Also metal halide in other centers. Any thoughts on what the usual problems are with these??? I'm checking prices on the net for ballast coil and core kits and some of these sites say they have warranty for these ballasts for two years. Kind of leads you to the conclusion that usually it might not be the ballast in hps,but either the cap or ignitor.Metal halide might be the cap if not the lamp usually???Customer wants a price on repair for each 1000w fixture. Any ideas on that??? Thanks for any info


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## HARRY304E

skipperone said:


> I have a customer who wants me to start doing his pole light repairs. I have found on hpsodium wall packs that if the ballast is still in good shape that the reason for the lamp not working is usually the ignitor. Any input on that? Also have hpsodium lamps on poles doing the blinkity blink thing, trying to start up getting about half way to full brightness then turns off again and starts all over.Any thoughts on what is usually the problem??? Also metal halide in other centers. Any thoughts on what the usual problems are with these??? I'm checking prices on the net for ballast coil and core kits and some of these sites say they have warranty for these ballasts for two years. Kind of leads you to the conclusion that usually it might not be the ballast in hps,but either the cap or ignitor.Metal halide might be the cap if not the lamp usually???Customer wants a price on repair for each 1000w fixture. Any ideas on that??? Thanks for any info


HPS lamp end of life cycle the lamp will cycle on and off till it kills the ballast.

As for the ballast them selves if the ignighter is gone your beter off changing the whole ballast

Welcome to the Forum:thumbup:


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## HARRY304E

Allso don't waste time with stuff like ignighters and capciters ,if you install a new lamp and it does not light up just change the whole ballast as a kit.


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## Jlarson

You are probably best off just doing a new lamp, ballast and cap all at once. One time in the air for each light that way, then on to the next one.


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## randas

Ballast kit+bulb in every fixture. Charge accordingly.


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## frenchelectrican

I always change the ballast with the kit it much quicker than try to do the farting around and find out other parts fail.

especaily you are in the air with the lift and the lift will cost ya the time and money so plan it wise.

Useally with HPS they will cycle like nuts espcally at the EOL { End Of Life } simuair to PSMH but they will dim a bit standard MH EOL are typically very dim or hard to start.

If you have old Mercury Vapour bulbs / ballast just ditch them and go with PSMH as long the socket is rated for pulse start.

Merci.
Marc


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## 10492

skipperone said:


> I have a customer who wants me to start doing his pole light repairs.


 
Why? 

Someone else doing it now?


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## The Lightman

The other guy is probably charging for ballast replacements, when it was just a burned out lamp. A profitable practice for the first time out, not so practical for the long term.


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## 10492

The Lightman said:


> The other guy is probably charging for ballast replacements, when it was just a burned out lamp. A profitable practice for the first time out, not so practical for the long term.


Maybe. I usually change out the whole ballast and bulb on new calls. 

But on returns, I'll just swapout whatever is bad, and put in a new bulb and clean the lenses.

The copper wound ballasts last a long time, and plastic caps last longer than oil filled.


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## JohnR

skipperone said:


> Also have hpsodium lamps on poles doing the blinkity blink thing, trying to start up getting about half way to full brightness then turns off again and starts all over.Any thoughts on what is usually the problem???


The Lamp is probably bad IMO


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## 480sparky

Click here for an HID troubleshooting guide.. it starts around page 27 or so.


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## skipperone

*pole light repairs*

thanks for all the help guys!!!


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## knowledge29

I do alot of parking lot lighting repairs and I never waste time changing out capacitors I just replace the whole thing.Its better being that I have to warrant the work.What are you charging ?


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## 480sparky

knowledge29 said:


> I do alot of parking lot lighting repairs and I never waste time changing out capacitors I just replace the whole thing.Its better being that I have to warrant the work.What are you charging ?



I do the same thing. Some will say it's a waste of money, but I'd rather have a customer who's light is going to work for another 2-3 years than come back in two weeks to replace yet another component.

My breakpoint is anything above a 10' stepladder gets everything replaced.... lamp, ballast, cap, ignitor.... everything.


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## The Lightman

OK Ken, this weekend, I replaced 39 pole light lamps of various types and one of these required a ballast. To who's advantage would it have been if I had installed 38 unneeded ballasts?


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## 480sparky

The Lightman said:


> OK Ken, this weekend, I replaced 39 pole light lamps of various types and one of these required a ballast. To who's advantage would it have been if I had installed 38 unneeded ballasts?



The customer. 

And I've explained this before. They get a light that will work for another 4-5 years. 

Will you guarantee those used ballasts will last that long? Or will you simply charge them to go back in two weeks and replace one?


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## The Lightman

Most weeks, I replace over a hundred pole light lamps. Are you actually suggesting that I should be matching that with an equal number of ballasts?


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## The Lightman

480sparky said:


> The customer.
> 
> And I've explained this before. They get a light that will work for another 4-5 years. Will you guarantee those used ballasts will last that long? Or will you simply charge them to go back in two weeks and replace one?


What about the lamp holder? Do you warranty it, after your "repair"?


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## 480sparky

Here's the scoop, Lightman.

If you don't like the way I run my business, I got one word for you:


Tough!​


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## The Lightman

But, I do respect the way you run your business and admire the way that you've helped others!


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## MDShunk

I think what we have here is the difference between a company that does lighting maintenance and stays on top of their contracts versus the EC who gets a call once in a blue moon from a customer who notices that it's been getting darker and darker in his parking lot. For this second type of customer, their ballast has normally been trying to start a failed lamp for so long that it's worked itself into oblivion and deserves to be replaced or has failed already.


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## mick12

hi i replace 1000 m-h lamps a year if the lamp comes on and keeps going off its the lamp , if the lamp is not working and u replace it , its the ignitor these r expensive but less than a fitting , u should not need to renew a ballast unless water has got in they last for over ten years , in some cases i renewed the ignitor and lamp and it still did not work , it was the lamp holder , worth checking, if u r going to do a lot of this work its a good idea to buy a edison duel lamp it has an ignitor built into the lamp keep it and use it as a tester if a normal lamp does not work and this one does then its the ignitor. p.s dont ever buy tamlite fittings they leek like a sive


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## mick12

av just read all the coments , honestly 99 time out 100 its the ignitor if a new lamp doesnt work , dont spend loads of money changing ballasts , 3 wires and the ignigtors changed and if u want to do a good job buy a timed ignitor if the lamp doesnt strike after 3 trys it stops trying increasing the life of the ignitor


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## knowledge29

hey lightman,what part of orlando do you do work in?..i live in orlando.and yes I think its a good idea to change ballast at the same time.it cuts the needing to go back.


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## The Lightman

Lee Road


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## MDShunk

mick12 said:


> av just read all the coments , honestly 99 time out 100 its the ignitor if a new lamp doesnt work , dont spend loads of money changing ballasts , 3 wires and the ignigtors changed and if u want to do a good job buy a timed ignitor if the lamp doesnt strike after 3 trys it stops trying increasing the life of the ignitor


Not all HID fixtures feature an "ignitor".


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## mick12

yes because the ignitor is in the lamp


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## 10492

mick12 said:


> yes because the ignitor is in the lamp


 
Huh?

Pulse start and smaller HID have seperate ignigtors, other than the bulb.

The 1000W MH I play with, are a cap, ballast and bulb. No ignitors to change.


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## The Lightman

You'll be seeing more ignitors soon. 
Legislation Overview
Effective January 1, 2009 new metal halide luminaries built for the U.S. market with 150W-500W lamps can no longer contain probe-start metal halide ballasts. In addition, pulse-start metal halide luminaries in the same wattage range must contain a magnetic ballast with minimum 88% efficiency, an electronic ballast with 92% minimum ballast efficiency for lamps greater than 250W or 90% minimum ballast efficiency for lamps less than or equal to 250W. Probe-start metal halide ballasts can still be sold into Distribution for replacement purposes.


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## MDShunk

Anyone have a cutaway or drawings of the internals of an ignitor? I generally thought of it as a potential relay.


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## skipperone

mick12 said:


> hi i replace 1000 m-h lamps a year if the lamp comes on and keeps going off its the lamp , if the lamp is not working and u replace it , its the ignitor these r expensive but less than a fitting , u should not need to renew a ballast unless water has got in they last for over ten years , in some cases i renewed the ignitor and lamp and it still did not work , it was the lamp holder , worth checking, if u r going to do a lot of this work its a good idea to buy a edison duel lamp it has an ignitor built into the lamp keep it and use it as a tester if a normal lamp does not work and this one does then its the ignitor. p.s dont ever buy tamlite fittings they leek like a sive


Do you have any numbers to order that edison duel lamp with the ignitor built in to it???We are talking 1000w mag hps right???


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## venture

*Pole light work in NC, TN, VA*

Hello
I am a GC in Charlotte, NC looking for a couple electricians in raleigh, Fayetteville, wilmington and asheville NC, roanoke, virginia beach, fisherville, Va. And the knoxville,TN area to repair pole lights at multiple locations. Trying to finish locations to by first of year. Pole lights are 42'+ high. Usually 400w or 1000w HPS.

Any interest?


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## skipperone

The Lightman said:


> OK Ken, this weekend, I replaced 39 pole light lamps of various types and one of these required a ballast. To who's advantage would it have been if I had installed 38 unneeded ballasts?


Are the caps you buy for around 20 bucks as good as the ones that the name brand suppliers sell for 30 or even 70 dollars???


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## brian john

A lot of this is based on personal experience, BUT typically full replacement is better for both parties in the long run. 

I worked for a company that did not do full replacement due to a cheap customer. Some time later there was an altercation in the parking lot (young lady raped and severely beaten) in the area of a burnt out lamp. In court the electrician explained why he did not do a full replacement for the repair, the expert witness explained that full replacement was prudent and in this case resulted in the rape. The hospital settled out of court.

While this is a stretch IMO it is how it can go.

Ounce of prevention sure beats a day in court.


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## The Lightman

brian john said:


> Some time later there was an altercation in the parking lot (young lady raped and severely beaten) in the area of a *burnt out lamp*. In court the electrician explained why he did not do a full replacement for the repair, the expert witness explained that full replacement was prudent and in this case resulted in the rape. The hospital settled out of court.


In my case, the electrician would be the expert witness. The hospital was found to be in fault of premises liability. The burnt out lamp and possibly the crime would not have happened if the lighting maintenance was managed by a competent lighting company as opposed to someone who sometimes repairs lights. All commercial properties should be aware of this and be on a scheduled relamp and monthly lighting maintenance program.


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## brian john

The Lightman said:


> In my case, the electrician would be the expert witness. The hospital was found to be in fault of premises liability. The burnt out lamp and possibly the crime would not have happened if the lighting maintenance was managed by a competent lighting company as opposed to someone who sometimes repairs lights. All commercial properties should be aware of this and be on a scheduled relamp and monthly lighting maintenance program.


At the time this happened I worked for the largest firm in Wash DC they had crews that specialized in different phases of the trade. 

Having testified in depositions I can tell you generally electricians are not hired to be expert witnesses. Expert witnesses in my experience are generally engineers, some with law degrees and sell their ass to the first and often highest bidder.


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## The Lightman

brian john said:


> Expert witnesses in my experience are generally engineers, some with law degrees and sell their ass to the first and often highest bidder.


 As long as the engineer has an L and a C after his name, he's a lighting expert. 
CLC Granted by the American Lighting Association (ALA)
CLEP Granted by the Association of Energy Engineers (AEE)
CLMC Granted by the international Association of Lighting Management Companies (NALMCO)
LC Granted by the National Council on Qualifications for the Lighting Professions (NCQLP)


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## brian john

The Lightman said:


> As long as the engineer has an L and a C after his name, he's a lighting expert.
> CLC Granted by the American Lighting Association (ALA)
> CLEP Granted by the Association of Energy Engineers (AEE)
> CLMC Granted by the international Association of Lighting Management Companies (NALMCO)
> LC Granted by the National Council on Qualifications for the Lighting Professions (NCQLP)


I am talking about court cases I have been involved in, myself I have never been involved in any cases where lighting was an issue. I DO NOTHING with lights other than supply power to them and/or use to light my work. 

Strictly a power guy.


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## The Lightman

Absolutely understood. You are the ET power expert.


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## brian john

The Lightman said:


> Absolutely understood. You are the ET power expert.


I do not know about that, but I find it embarrassing how little I know about lighting. People ask me lighting questions and I shrug my shoulders. Really felt the fool when I took a photography class about product and model shooting everyone thought the electrician should know more about lights.

Oh well this year it is NFPA 70E time, maybe lighting another year.


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## The Lightman

I have several online free lighting courses, some with certificates in my favorites if anyone is interested.


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## brian john

The Lightman said:


> I have several online free lighting courses, some with certificates in my favorites if anyone is interested.


You have taken or you offer?


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## The Lightman

Taken, I did not write them. Here a good starter, ballast basics 1 and 2.
http://www.advance.philips.com/university/adminstudent.asp


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## brian john

I got a Kindle, colornook and an I-pad (Xmas). Maybe I can download for reading on the throne!


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## ce2two

brian john said:


> A lot of this is based on personal experience, BUT typically full replacement is better for both parties in the long run.
> 
> I worked for a company that did not do full replacement due to a cheap customer. Some time later there was an altercation in the parking lot (young lady raped and severely beaten) in the area of a burnt out lamp. In court the electrician explained why he did not do a full replacement for the repair, the expert witness explained that full replacement was prudent and in this case resulted in the rape. The hospital settled out of court.
> 
> While this is a stretch IMO it is how it can go.
> 
> Ounce of prevention sure beats a day in court.


 Remember the old days with respect to your vehicle, plug wires, points,spark plugs do it all at the same time and move on .. this is the reason I have no stress or headaches..plain and simple( ever):laughing:stop the drama ...


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