# Local 3 IBEW NYC got a letter today.



## MDShunk

Word on the street is that a bunch of electrical work fell out of the sky in your area. :laughing::thumbsup:


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## icefalkon

MDShunk said:


> Word on the street is that a bunch of electrical work fell out of the sky in your area. :laughing::thumbsup:


LOL wow...well it sorta washed ashore too! 

Too soon? LOL

This is great news soprano!! You're on the list and hopefully you'll be called by Jan/Feb! Once you get that far I can help you out with orientation etc. I'm down there all the time anyway so helping out the new guys is something I like doing. 

AGAIN!! Things are looking good!!


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## sopranocaponyc

any word as to when the next class will be called, is it June/ Sept. I heard a few guys on this site started their school at the end of January. Now its a matter of time I guess. good thing I didn't get called fro this jan class is it lets me finish my last sem at qcc here in queens and I'll then have my Associates in liberal Arts at the end of May.


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## icefalkon

Not sure, next round will probably be either this week or if not August/September.


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## 360max

sopranocaponyc said:


> Got my Letter....wooo whooo and I think I'm in
> 
> it states.
> 
> "TY for applying etc.. Your application is on file should apprentice positions open in the Electrical Industry. It then asks me to send the return letter saying If I'm still interested and to reply within 10 days. on the bottom in bold letters it states.
> 
> *"DO NOT LEAVE YOUR PRESENT JOB UNTIL YOU ARE NOTIFIED"*
> *
> *It finishes by saying " you will be contacted in the future should positions become open. If Accepted we hope you will consider this opportunity as a career of commitment and loyalty in one of the best unions in the country.
> 
> While its not an out and out acceptance this has to mean I'm on the list and they want to know if I'm still interested and when classes(apprentices usually 500 each Jan/june/sept to start school and or work) open and I'm interested that I will be contacted further etc...I think this is great news. very happy now the real waiting starts!
> 
> Also, the application number has two numbers- then 4 numbers between 1050-1120 does that mean anything as far as rank





sopranocaponyc said:


> any word as to when the next class will be called, is it June/ Sept. I heard a few guys on this site started their school at the end of January. Now its a matter of time I guess. good thing I didn't get called fro this jan class is it lets me finish my last sem at qcc here in queens and I'll then have my Associates in liberal Arts at the end of May.


long time between post Bro, at least your going to college and earning a degree in the mean time, well done!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:


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## 360max

...........


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## spiderneck30

icefalkon said:


> LOL wow...well it sorta washed ashore too!
> 
> Too soon? LOL
> 
> This is great news soprano!! You're on the list and hopefully you'll be called by Jan/Feb! Once you get that far I can help you out with orientation etc. I'm down there all the time anyway so helping out the new guys is something I like doing.
> 
> AGAIN!! Things are looking good!!


Icefalkon just the man im looking for. I need ur help and advice on this. I currently came out of the military and rejoined Local 25 as of November 2012. Things are great and im with a very large and busy shop.

Now my issue is this. Is there any way possible for me to tranfer from local 25 to local 3. I completed 2 years of schooling and work hours before i went to the military. When i returned, local 25 had all my old records and reinstated me as a CW3. There are guys in my shop who have come from arizona and other places and simply transfered from their old locals into our 25.

Now i live in the city. Jamaica Queens actually. Only reason i got into 25 was becuz the shop i started out with before the army was non union and based closed to home in Nassau. Once local 25 organized them, thats how i got in. Now im back from the army, its
Years later and im still.working as far out as patchogue 80 miles away. People telling me its impossible to transfer to local 3 but i dont see how guys can transfer permanently from out of state, keep their rank and pay grade...but i cant switch to another local in the SAME state? Doesnt make sense. Please tell me what i can do to transfer into local 3 while still keeping my 3rd year rate. Dont wanna star over and shouldnt have to. Even M division would be great. As long as im not in long island. Commute is brutal.
yearsyears later and im still in queens working far out as patchogue


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## icefalkon

Hello Spider. First and foremost, thank you for your service to this country. 

Now onto transferring. The abiity to transfer into another Local is at the discretion of the Local. The International allows it...however most Local's have rules about becoming what is termed "Book 1". 

Unfortunately, LU#3 does not allow transfers into the Local. We also do not allow Travelers within the City of NY. 

Being that you are a Veteran, I will enquire when I'm teaching Monday night to see if there would possibly be any consideration given. 

I will let you know on here. 

In the meantime, just keep working, keep going to school, and keep honing your trade.


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## spiderneck30

icefalkon said:


> Hello Spider. First and foremost, thank you for your service to this country.
> 
> Now onto transferring. The abiity to transfer into another Local is at the discretion of the Local. The International allows it...however most Local's have rules about becoming what is termed "Book 1".
> 
> Unfortunately, LU#3 does not allow transfers into the Local. We also do not allow Travelers within the City of NY.
> 
> Being that you are a Veteran, I will enquire when I'm teaching Monday night to see if there would possibly be any consideration given.
> 
> I will let you know on here.
> 
> In the meantime, just keep working, keep going to school, and keep honing your trade.


Thanks for your response. I will be looking forward to the answer u post here. Thanks very much.


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## sopranocaponyc

360max said:


> long time between post Bro, at least your going to college and earning a degree in the mean time, well done!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:


 
TY it is very fulfilling to get my degree, even if its my associates. For now I will just wait till I get called whether it be soon or in Aug/Sept, the later would be better so I can come in during a full new years class and if I was to get called for this month I might run into issues as far as finishing school and all. I guess I will worry about that when that comes about.


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## sopranocaponyc

spiderneck30 said:


> Icefalkon just the man im looking for. I need ur help and advice on this. I currently came out of the military and rejoined Local 25 as of November 2012. Things are great and im with a very large and busy shop.
> 
> Now my issue is this. Is there any way possible for me to tranfer from local 25 to local 3. I completed 2 years of schooling and work hours before i went to the military. When i returned, local 25 had all my old records and reinstated me as a CW3. There are guys in my shop who have come from arizona and other places and simply transfered from their old locals into our 25.
> 
> Now i live in the city. Jamaica Queens actually. Only reason i got into 25 was becuz the shop i started out with before the army was non union and based closed to home in Nassau. Once local 25 organized them, thats how i got in. Now im back from the army, its
> Years later and im still.working as far out as patchogue 80 miles away. People telling me its impossible to transfer to local 3 but i dont see how guys can transfer permanently from out of state, keep their rank and pay grade...but i cant switch to another local in the SAME state? Doesnt make sense. Please tell me what i can do to transfer into local 3 while still keeping my 3rd year rate. Dont wanna star over and shouldnt have to. Even M division would be great. As long as im not in long island. Commute is brutal.
> yearsyears later and im still in queens working far out as patchogue


 
WOW 80 miles, that's a lot, I remember when I was in before I had a few job sites at Coney Island Hospital and that's no easy travel. Coming from Jamaica my self it was the 1st stop to last stop on the F(hated that ride) then a 15 min bus ride. I would have to leave my house by 5am just to get to the job site by 715am and it sucks when your in school two nights a week till 8-9ish. but its the dues apprentices have to pay. Good luck with LU25.


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## al13nw4r3LC76

icefalkon said:


> Hello Spider. First and foremost, thank you for your service to this country.
> 
> Now onto transferring. The abiity to transfer into another Local is at the discretion of the Local. The International allows it...however most Local's have rules about becoming what is termed "Book 1".
> 
> Unfortunately, LU#3 does not allow transfers into the Local. We also do not allow Travelers within the City of NY.
> 
> Being that you are a Veteran, I will enquire when I'm teaching Monday night to see if there would possibly be any consideration given.
> 
> I will let you know on here.
> 
> In the meantime, just keep working, keep going to school, and keep honing your trade.


Wait.... you dont allow travelers to work off a book 2 in New York? What if there aren't enough local hands to man the work?


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## icefalkon

We have 15,000 A Journeymen (Inside Wiremen) in NYC. That is not a problem...the problem is enough work to keep all A Division Journeymen working. Our version of the CW/CE is called the M Division with approximately 10,000 members. 

There hasn't been a problem manning any jobs in NYC since the late 70's to mid 80's.


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## 360max

sopranocaponyc said:


> TY it is very fulfilling to get my degree, even if its my associates. For now I will just wait till I get called whether it be soon or in Aug/Sept, the later would be better so I can come in during a full new years class and if I was to get called for this month I might run into issues as far as finishing school and all. I guess I will worry about that when that comes about.


a degree is a degree sopra., its something others may not have, I hope you go on for your bachelors degree...





icefalkon said:


> Hello Spider. First and foremost, thank you for your service to this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Now onto transferring. The abiity to transfer into another Local is at the discretion of the Local. The International allows it...however most Local's have rules about becoming what is termed "Book 1".
> 
> U*nfortunately, LU#3 does not allow transfers into the Local. We also do not allow Travelers within the City of NY. *
> 
> Being that you are a Veteran, I will enquire when I'm teaching Monday night to see if there would possibly be any consideration given.
> 
> I will let you know on here.
> 
> In the meantime, just keep working, keep going to school, and keep honing your trade.


do local 3 guys travel?


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## icefalkon

360max said:


> a degree is a degree sopra., its something others may not have, I hope you go on for your bachelors degree...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do local 3 guys travel?



I did when I first got my A Card. That was back in 1990...and I traveled for 3yrs or so. Very few travel these days and the Apprenticeship doesn't stress it. Shame actually. I think that traveling makes you a much better electrician by far. The thing is...many of our Apprentices are coming into the Program with a wife and kids already...and much older in life. Therefore none of these guys want to travel. They're content to sit on their asses when times are slow. We have a furlough/work sharing program that works for us here in NYC. So everyone is pretty much going to work for at least 6 months out of the year. I however, couldn't do that.


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## al13nw4r3LC76

icefalkon said:


> I did when I first got my A Card. That was back in 1990...and I traveled for 3yrs or so. Very few travel these days and the Apprenticeship doesn't stress it. Shame actually. I think that traveling makes you a much better electrician by far. The thing is...many of our Apprentices are coming into the Program with a wife and kids already...and much older in life. Therefore none of these guys want to travel. They're content to sit on their asses when times are slow. We have a furlough/work sharing program that works for us here in NYC. So everyone is pretty much going to work for at least 6 months out of the year. I however, couldn't do that.


How does your work sharing program work brother? We could sure use something like that. Calls are slow here at home. Those working steady probably wouldn't like it but we need to share the work in good times and bad.


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## 360max

icefalkon said:


> I did when I first got my A Card. That was back in 1990...and I traveled for 3yrs or so. Very few travel these days and the Apprenticeship doesn't stress it. Shame actually. I think that traveling makes you a much better electrician by far. The thing is...many of our Apprentices are coming into the Program with a wife and kids already...and much older in life. Therefore none of these guys want to travel. They're content to sit on their asses when times are slow. We have a furlough/work sharing program that works for us here in NYC. So everyone is pretty much going to work for at least 6 months out of the year. I however, couldn't do that.


you don't except transfers, and do not except travelers, and yet you travel to other locals, why is that?


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## icefalkon

Why wouldn't we? We're one of the first locals established in 1891 and until 1985 there were travelers accepted. LU3 never allowed transfers "into" the local. The reason LU3 shut it's doors is political, but part of the reason is also that before a traveler is allowed to work in LU3's jurisdiction, all 15000 Inside Wiremen must be fully employed. Now I don't know how many A Journeymen you have...but 15000 is a LOT of people to keep busy in a metropolis, any metropolis. 

If more young men (and women) would travel to other locals for work when there is 25% unemployment, it would lighten the load and allow the system to work smoother. But again, times have changed. 

Why would you make the worker suffer because of the politics of the day? When I traveled in 1990, I received a world of **** and ribbing. But you know what...if you're good, and you get better, and you're a believer in this thing we do...you make friends. Some of them life long ones. My traveling years were some of the best times in my life. 

Another reason to travel, is the sheer necessity for some locals who need journeymen. Personal views aside, traveling is unique to our industry...that's first. Second, it's accepted and promoted within the International. Thirdly, if there's no work where I live, and believe me...our unemployment was over 25% with 4000 men...not Apprentices, but Journeymen...out of work. I'm not talking about CW/CE guys here...I'm talking about guys who went through the same program you and I did. That's a LOT of people. I know I said that before, but it's worth repeating. When you have those kinds of numbers...traveling should be promoted. However, I don't make the rules, I'm just a soldier...a cog in the machine.


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## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> I did when I first got my A Card. That was back in 1990...and I traveled for 3yrs or so. Very few travel these days and the Apprenticeship doesn't stress it. Shame actually. I think that traveling makes you a much better electrician by far. The thing is...many of our Apprentices are coming into the Program with a wife and kids already...and much older in life. Therefore none of these guys want to travel. They're content to sit on their asses when times are slow. We have a furlough/work sharing program that works for us here in NYC. So everyone is pretty much going to work for at least 6 months out of the year. I however, couldn't do that.


WOW you got your A card during a time when the metro card didn't exist. we were still using tokens and if I remember correctly the fare was only $1. but you had to take the bus to the train, two separate fares. Not that I'm saying your old, You are far from old. your just as cool as the other side of pillow from the 90's. Ok, I'm talking gibberish, only got like two hours sleep due to I pulled a muscle on my left side near my ribs.


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## icefalkon

LOL too funny Alex.

I taught Renewable Energy last night and one of the kids goes...want me to get you a coffee when i go downstairs old timer...

I was like...WTF? Who...ME? Why you little....I aughta....

Then I realized...holy crap...time has definitely snuck up on me. LOL


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## icefalkon

spiderneck30 said:


> Thanks for your response. I will be looking forward to the answer u post here. Thanks very much.



I asked tonight about this and was told by an Officer that he would look into it and find out some details for me. I'm friends with this particular Business Rep so I believe that he'll follow up on it. 

I'll keep you informed.


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## spiderneck30

icefalkon said:


> I asked tonight about this and was told by an Officer that he would look into it and find out some details for me. I'm friends with this particular Business Rep so I believe that he'll follow up on it.
> 
> I'll keep you informed.


Thanks alot. I really Appreciate ur brotherhood, ur help and ur concern.


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## icefalkon

spiderneck30 said:


> Thanks alot. I really Appreciate ur brotherhood, ur help and ur concern.


 
No problem Spider. That's what it's about.

As I tell the Apprentices I teach...

It's a Brotherhood, not a neighborhood...


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## BXSquish

icefalkon said:


> No problem Spider. That's what it's about.
> 
> As I tell the Apprentices I teach...
> 
> It's a Brotherhood, not a neighborhood...


Didn't realize you taught at the school on Monday nights. I may have to find your classroom next week. :thumbup:


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## sopranocaponyc

BXSquish said:


> Didn't realize you taught at the school on Monday nights. I may have to find your classroom next week. :thumbup:


How's school and work if your working yet, so far.


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## icefalkon

BXSquish said:


> Didn't realize you taught at the school on Monday nights. I may have to find your classroom next week. :thumbup:


I'll be at Park Place all next week.


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## 360max

icefalkon said:


> Why wouldn't we? We're one of the first locals established in 1891 and until 1985 there were travelers accepted. *LU3 never allowed transfers "into" the local.* The reason LU3 shut it's doors is political, but part of the reason is also that before a traveler is allowed to work in LU3's jurisdiction, all 15000 Inside Wiremen must be fully employed. Now I don't know how many A Journeymen you have...but 15000 is a LOT of people to keep busy in a metropolis, any metropolis.
> 
> If more young men (and women) would travel to other locals for work when there is 25% unemployment, it would lighten the load and allow the system to work smoother. But again, times have changed.
> 
> Why would you make the worker suffer because of the politics of the day? When I traveled in 1990, I received a world of **** and ribbing. But you know what...if you're good, and you get better, and you're a believer in this thing we do...you make friends. Some of them life long ones. My traveling years were some of the best times in my life.
> 
> Another reason to travel, is the sheer necessity for some locals who need journeymen. Personal views aside, traveling is unique to our industry...that's first. Second, it's accepted and promoted within the International. Thirdly, if there's no work where I live, and believe me...our unemployment was over 25% with 4000 men...not Apprentices, but Journeymen...out of work. I'm not talking about CW/CE guys here...I'm talking about guys who went through the same program you and I did. That's a LOT of people. I know I said that before, but it's worth repeating. When you have those kinds of numbers...traveling should be promoted. However, I don't make the rules, I'm just a soldier...a cog in the machine.


If you not going to allow transfers into your local (ie; a Brother moving to NYC), why would you expect another local to accept your transfer, if you moved from NYC? Not trying to be confrontational, just trying to get a better understanding of your transfer policy.


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## icefalkon

360max said:


> If you not going to allow transfers into your local (ie; a Brother moving to NYC), why would you expect another local to accept your transfer, if you moved from NYC? Not trying to be confrontational, just trying to get a better understanding of your transfer policy.


Well it's not that odd. LU3 does not allow Travelers unless all of our JW's are working. We have 15000 A Journeymen. Traveling..isn't Transferring. LU3's mindset is...if you don't want to be in our Local...fine. You can leave...but you will never be allowed back. It's a one way move. Why would another local accept someone from LU3? That depends on the individuals skill set. Me..personally...my skill is in running large projects of 80-100 men efficiently, safely, and to Code. Other guys are great PM's, etc. So if you have what a company elsewhere wants...you can go. I was offered to stay in Washington State when I was a Grade 25 Electrical Supervisor for Bechtel International on the Columbia River Project. They headhunted me, I took the job and LU3 allowed it. Bechtel is the worlds largest General Contractor and they have a Direct Hire Agreement with the IBEW. 

There is no "transferring" into Local 3...as there is no transferring into MANY of the locals around the country. If you're Book 2...you're Book 2. I think that the Locals that allow you to go from Book 2 to Book 1 are way fewer than those that don't. 

I "think"...that a primary reason for this is that LU3, like 134 in Chicago, Hawaii, Local 1 in St. Louis...do not adhere to all of the tenets of the NJATC. We have our own curriculum that exceeds the NJATC in certain areas. Now...I don't agree with that. But...I'm just an Instructor...I don't make those decisions...they're way above my pay grade. I'm sure there are other reasons that I'm not privy to. 

Back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and even 80's...NYC, Chicago, and Los Angeles were VERY friendly. As a matter of fact, the Business Managers had conference calls every month. It was known as the Golden Triangle...the alliance between the three cities. For whatever reason...it fell apart in the 90's. 

Now...from 2010 on...those alliances are being rebuilt.

I traveled in the 90's as IBEW members...we ALL have the ability to travel for work. Its not an individual Local thing, it's an IBEW Right. 

The guys who did work in NYC prior to the shutting of the doors have universally said how they loved it here. The rate alone back then was the highest in the country. 

So...to answer your question. As I said above..it's not an individual Local Right to Travel, but instead its an International thing. 

Belonging to the A Division (Inside Wiremen) definitely has advantages. One of them is the ability to Travel anywhere in the country to work where they need men.


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## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> Well it's not that odd. LU3 does not allow Travelers unless all of our JW's are working. We have 15000 A Journeymen. Traveling..isn't Transferring. LU3's mindset is...if you don't want to be in our Local...fine. You can leave...but you will never be allowed back. It's a one way move. Why would another local accept someone from LU3? That depends on the individuals skill set. Me..personally...my skill is in running large projects of 80-100 men efficiently, safely, and to Code. Other guys are great PM's, etc. So if you have what a company elsewhere wants...you can go. I was offered to stay in Washington State when I was a Grade 25 Electrical Supervisor for Bechtel International on the Columbia River Project. They headhunted me, I took the job and LU3 allowed it. Bechtel is the worlds largest General Contractor and they have a Direct Hire Agreement with the IBEW.
> 
> There is no "transferring" into Local 3...as there is no transferring into MANY of the locals around the country. If you're Book 2...you're Book 2. I think that the Locals that allow you to go from Book 2 to Book 1 are way fewer than those that don't.
> 
> I "think"...that a primary reason for this is that LU3, like 134 in Chicago, Hawaii, Local 1 in St. Louis...do not adhere to all of the tenets of the NJATC. We have our own curriculum that exceeds the NJATC in certain areas. Now...I don't agree with that. But...I'm just an Instructor...I don't make those decisions...they're way above my pay grade. I'm sure there are other reasons that I'm not privy to.
> 
> Back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and even 80's...NYC, Chicago, and Los Angeles were VERY friendly. As a matter of fact, the Business Managers had conference calls every month. It was known as the Golden Triangle...the alliance between the three cities. For whatever reason...it fell apart in the 90's.
> 
> Now...from 2010 on...those alliances are being rebuilt.
> 
> I traveled in the 90's as IBEW members...we ALL have the ability to travel for work. Its not an individual Local thing, it's an IBEW Right.
> 
> The guys who did work in NYC prior to the shutting of the doors have universally said how they loved it here. The rate alone back then was the highest in the country.
> 
> So...to answer your question. As I said above..it's not an individual Local Right to Travel, but instead its an International thing.
> 
> Belonging to the A Division (Inside Wiremen) definitely has advantages. One of them is the ability to Travel anywhere in the country to work where they need men.


Well Said, Brother!


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## BXSquish

icefalkon said:


> I'll be at Park Place all next week.


Basic wiring?


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## BXSquish

sopranocaponyc said:


> How's school and work if your working yet, so far.


School is going good. They took all my credits so I am in the bachelors program for college. Theory is going well too. I can't wait for the semester to be over. As for work, I am on the 7 line extension project on the west side.


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## icefalkon

BXSquish said:


> Basic wiring?


Alternative Power, Code, and G-Pro


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## John Valdes

Icefalcon.
Great explanation and I understand why 360 was asking the same questions I had.
I had a very unusual experience in the IBEW in the early 70's through the 1980's.

I served my apprenticeship with LU1346 which is a railroad local. I topped out at the RR and was placed on the seniority list.
I bid the best job available. 3rd shift with tues & weds off. Nice huh? LOL

A year later, I was told there was going to be a layoff. Since I was on the near bottom of this list, I was laid off and I took a severance package.
This basically ended any possibility of returning to the job. I sold my seniority in a sense.
I was very young still and the RR at that time was not my favorite place to be. In hindsight.............

Our shop steward at the RR told me I should try and travel locally as I had a yellow ticket and it was current. He came from local 349.
He recommended local 349 in Miami as we (RR) had taken on several wiremen over the years and some actually were hired on full time.
They came in from LU349 and the RR accepted them at top grade.

So, my steward figured this could work in the favor for some of the guys that were laid off.
Myself and another brother went to the 349 hall and were out on a job within an hour. Top pay. Traveler.

My point of writing this is to say without the help of my union brothers at the RR and at LU349, it is very possible I would have left the trade.
The atmosphere working out of the local was excellent. Of course I did get some ribbing as I came from the RR. I was fortunate to work only for one contractor the whole time.
I could bend pipe and that was enough to keep me working. Boy did I get good at bending pipe. 

Thanks to both locals, I stayed in the trade.
It made my story a story of success. I am indebted to everyone concerned.


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## BXSquish

icefalkon said:


> Alternative Power, Code, and G-Pro


I will be in basic wiring next week so let me know what room your in so I can say hello.


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## icefalkon

BXSquish said:


> I will be in basic wiring next week so let me know what room your in so I can say hello.


I'll be there Monday night, room 3. Weds I have to speak at a club meeting about Code. 

Say hello!


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## compuradon

*Just scheduled physical for July*

I spoke to Joyce from apprenticeship department over at the hall, she mentioned something about classes starting in Aug/Sept? Any info on this? I just scheduled my physical for July.

Tom


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## icefalkon

We just finished our last classes for the semester this week. We haven't been told anything...but then again...we haven't asked.


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## BXSquish

compuradon said:


> I spoke to Joyce from apprenticeship department over at the hall, she mentioned something about classes starting in Aug/Sept? Any info on this? I just scheduled my physical for July.
> 
> Tom


College usually starts during the end of August/ beginning of September. You should get a letter from Empire State College sometime in July/August with your orientation date. Most likely, you will start college before you start work. Also, in September you should get a letter from the Joint board with your start date for your electrical theory classes. Good luck and congratulations.


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## BXSquish

icefalkon said:


> I'll be there Monday night, room 3. Weds I have to speak at a club meeting about Code.
> 
> Say hello!


 Sorry I did not get a chance to stop in and say hello, my wiring class started early that day. Perhaps next workshop we can arrange something.


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## icefalkon

BXSquish said:


> Sorry I did not get a chance to stop in and say hello, my wiring class started early that day. Perhaps next workshop we can arrange something.


No worries! I'll be there next semester...same Bat Time...same Bat Channel.

LOL


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## icefalkon

spiderneck30 said:


> Icefalkon just the man im looking for. I need ur help and advice on this. I currently came out of the military and rejoined Local 25 as of November 2012. Things are great and im with a very large and busy shop.
> 
> Now my issue is this. Is there any way possible for me to tranfer from local 25 to local 3. I completed 2 years of schooling and work hours before i went to the military. When i returned, local 25 had all my old records and reinstated me as a CW3. There are guys in my shop who have come from arizona and other places and simply transfered from their old locals into our 25.
> 
> Now i live in the city. Jamaica Queens actually. Only reason i got into 25 was becuz the shop i started out with before the army was non union and based closed to home in Nassau. Once local 25 organized them, thats how i got in. Now im back from the army, its
> Years later and im still.working as far out as patchogue 80 miles away. People telling me its impossible to transfer to local 3 but i dont see how guys can transfer permanently from out of state, keep their rank and pay grade...but i cant switch to another local in the SAME state? Doesnt make sense. Please tell me what i can do to transfer into local 3 while still keeping my 3rd year rate. Dont wanna star over and shouldnt have to. Even M division would be great. As long as im not in long island. Commute is brutal.
> yearsyears later and im still in queens working far out as patchogue


Hi Spider,
I just asked a Business Rep about this. He said that it is very difficult but not unheard of. He will find out what the process is. But I have to be honest with you Brother, in his words...not to get his hopes up. 

Let me see what he says.


----------



## Tom31

sopranocaponyc said:


> Got my Letter....wooo whooo and I think I'm in
> 
> it states.
> 
> "TY for applying etc.. Your application is on file should apprentice positions open in the Electrical Industry. It then asks me to send the return letter saying If I'm still interested and to reply within 10 days. on the bottom in bold letters it states.
> 
> "DO NOT LEAVE YOUR PRESENT JOB UNTIL YOU ARE NOTIFIED"
> 
> It finishes by saying " you will be contacted in the future should positions become open. If Accepted we hope you will consider this opportunity as a career of commitment and loyalty in one of the best unions in the country.
> 
> While its not an out and out acceptance this has to mean I'm on the list and they want to know if I'm still interested and when classes(apprentices usually 500 each Jan/june/sept to start school and or work) open and I'm interested that I will be contacted further etc...I think this is great news. very happy now the real waiting starts!
> 
> Also, the application number has two numbers- then 4 numbers between 1050-1120 does that mean anything as far as rank


Hi i got call from local 3 appr program they ask me if i am still Interesting in program i said yes ! But i have 11 years experience what should i do ?


----------



## icefalkon

Hello Tom
Firstly...welcome to the Forum. 

Now onto you being accepted into the Apprenticeship...Congratulations. You have a particularly difficult decision to make and no one here can make that decision but you. You have to weigh what you make an hour now...plus whatever benefits you have against the DROP in salary and definite INCREASE in medical benefits, and GUARANTEED work for the next 5yrs. The work outlook for NYC is looking great so there is a lot of overtime being allotted into job packages. Add to this the fact that you WILL earn a college degree! You're not JUST learning "theory" at school...you are going towards a degree...and an education that is unmatched in any other trade...union or non union. Local 3 is the ONLY IBEW Local that grants each and EVERY A Division Member $20,000 to continue their education. That's a fact. Many other Locals will reimburse some classes relevant to their job...but here you can become anything...ANYTHING you want. 

BUT... 

Can you afford the drop? You have to do that math as that's your "in the pocket". 

Believe me, many...many guys in the Program are in your shoes. I have one that I know very well. It took a year, but eventually he showed the shop that he was worth the "overscale" and they bumped him $1 or $2. 

So sit...think about your situation, think about where you want to be in 5yrs, in 10yrs, and in 30yrs. 

I hope this has helped a bit...and again...welcome to the Forum.


----------



## icefalkon

compuradon said:


> I spoke to Joyce from apprenticeship department over at the hall, she mentioned something about classes starting in Aug/Sept? Any info on this? I just scheduled my physical for July.
> 
> Tom


Congratulations!!!

Wasn't sure if I said that yet...LOL

I'll see you next semester!


----------



## Tom31

icefalkon said:


> Congratulations!!!
> 
> Wasn't sure if I said that yet...LOL
> 
> I'll see you next semester!


Thank you very much !


----------



## Tom31

icefalkon said:


> Hello Tom
> Firstly...welcome to the Forum.
> 
> Now onto you being accepted into the Apprenticeship...Congratulations. You have a particularly difficult decision to make and no one here can make that decision but you. You have to weigh what you make an hour now...plus whatever benefits you have against the DROP in salary and definite INCREASE in medical benefits, and GUARANTEED work for the next 5yrs. The work outlook for NYC is looking great so there is a lot of overtime being allotted into job packages. Add to this the fact that you WILL earn a college degree! You're not JUST learning "theory" at school...you are going towards a degree...and an education that is unmatched in any other trade...union or non union. Local 3 is the ONLY IBEW Local that grants each and EVERY A Division Member $20,000 to continue their education. That's a fact. Many other Locals will reimburse some classes relevant to their job...but here you can become anything...ANYTHING you want.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> Can you afford the drop? You have to do that math as that's your "in the pocket".
> 
> Believe me, many...many guys in the Program are in your shoes. I have one that I know very well. It took a year, but eventually he showed the shop that he was worth the "overscale" and they bumped him $1 or $2.
> 
> So sit...think about your situation, think about where you want to be in 5yrs, in 10yrs, and in 30yrs.
> 
> I hope this has helped a bit...and again...welcome to the Forum.


Thank you !! Yes is going to be very difficult decision. Thank you !


----------



## tjy1004

compuradon said:


> I spoke to Joyce from apprenticeship department over at the hall, she mentioned something about classes starting in Aug/Sept? Any info on this? I just scheduled my physical for July.
> 
> Tom


Hey good for you. 
Today is my physical appointment. Wish me good luck.


----------



## icefalkon

tjy1004 said:


> Hey good for you.
> Today is my physical appointment. Wish me good luck.


Good luck TJ


----------



## compuradon

*Physical*

Good luck TJ! I may have seen you over there at the medical office -- I had a 3:20pm appointment. Have you heard anything about starting classes yet? Someone over there mentioned something about Sept., but I have still not heard from SUNY Empire State.


----------



## compuradon

*Prevailing Wages*

For those interested (or for those who need to factor in wages + benefits into the decision whether or not to join the Local 3 IBEW), I'm posting a link to NYC Comptroller in regards to wages for apprentices and journeymen, as well as a breakdown of the supplemental benefits package. 

Benefits breakdown (2007): http://www.nycsca.org/Business/WorkingWithTheSCA/LaborLawCompliance/PLADocs/Electricians-b.pdf

Prevailing wages for apprentices (updated July 12, 2013 -- Looks like pay increase for 1st year from $11.50/h to $12.50/h, as well as subsequent years and bi-yearly raises): http://www.comptroller.nyc.gov/bureaus/bll/2013-pdf-files/220A-July2013-FINAL.pdf

Prevailing wages for "A" Electricians (updated July 12, 2013): http://www.comptroller.nyc.gov/bureaus/bll/2013-pdf-files/220-July2013-FINAL.pdf

Tom


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> Hello Spider. First and foremost, thank you for your service to this country.
> 
> Now onto transferring. The abiity to transfer into another Local is at the discretion of the Local. The International allows it...however most Local's have rules about becoming what is termed "Book 1".
> 
> Unfortunately, LU#3 does not allow transfers into the Local. We also do not allow Travelers within the City of NY.
> 
> Being that you are a Veteran, I will enquire when I'm teaching Monday night to see if there would possibly be any consideration given.
> 
> I will let you know on here.
> 
> In the meantime, just keep working, keep going to school, and keep honing your trade.


But, they do allow travelers in the Westchester/Fairfield lu# 3


----------



## icefalkon

Salvatoreg02 said:


> But, they do allow travelers in the Westchester/Fairfield lu# 3


Hello Sal,

At this time no. Westchester/Fairfield is now Local 3 North. They are only allowing travelers in when they are requested for special projects. They fall under Local 3's By Law stating that we have to be at full employment for X amount of time before opening the doors to Travelers. I "think" it's one calendar year, I'm not sure, but I will find out.


----------



## icefalkon

compuradon said:


> For those interested (or for those who need to factor in wages + benefits into the decision whether or not to join the Local 3 IBEW), I'm posting a link to NYC Comptroller in regards to wages for apprentices and journeymen, as well as a breakdown of the supplemental benefits package.
> 
> Benefits breakdown (2007): http://www.nycsca.org/Business/WorkingWithTheSCA/LaborLawCompliance/PLADocs/Electricians-b.pdf
> 
> Prevailing wages for apprentices (updated July 12, 2013 -- Looks like pay increase for 1st year from $11.50/h to $12.50/h, as well as subsequent years and bi-yearly raises): http://www.comptroller.nyc.gov/bureaus/bll/2013-pdf-files/220A-July2013-FINAL.pdf
> 
> Prevailing wages for "A" Electricians (updated July 12, 2013): http://www.comptroller.nyc.gov/bureaus/bll/2013-pdf-files/220-July2013-FINAL.pdf
> 
> Tom


Good job Tom...except that we just ratified a new contract. But till good job!


----------



## 360max

icefalkon said:


> Hello Sal,
> 
> At this time no. Westchester/Fairfield is now Local 3 North. *They are only allowing travelers in when they are requested for special projects*. They fall under Local 3's By Law stating that we have to be at full employment for X amount of time before opening the doors to Travelers. I "think" it's one calendar year, I'm not sure, but I will find out.


... IMO if you don't allow travelers, you should not be allowed to travel.


----------



## HackWork

360max said:


> ... IMO if you don't allow travelers, you should not be allowed to travel.


I don't think Local 3 should be able to carry the IBEW name. I assume the only reason that the IO hasn't broken ties with them completely is because the IO is so greedy for dues money.


----------



## compuradon

icefalkon said:


> Good job Tom...except that we just ratified a new contract. But till good job!


Do you know what first year apprentices start at? Is it different than what the document describes?


----------



## icefalkon

360max said:


> ... IMO if you don't allow travelers, you should not be allowed to travel.


EDIT

The original tenet of Traveling with the IBEW was to ensure that Local Members have the ABILITY to relocate FOR work. There is no pissing contest as to....you don't allow it so we won't allow you in. 

THAT is not what this union is about.

That being said 360, your opinion is valid as it is your own. However, most of the older locals, and by saying so I specifically mean the Original 10...have rules on the books stating that they won't allow travelers in until all of their members are at full employment. 

Local 3 founded the Work Share Program commonly known as Furlough. Six months minimum for every single member in the A Division. At this point there are 15 Local's that have adopted this process. 

So again, there is no...if you don't let us in...you are not ALLOWED to travel. I believe I made this clear to you in another thread that

*Traveling is an International Organization (IO) Right within the IBEW that can not be infringed upon.*

This is to EVERYONE'S favor as in the case of members who are in smaller jurisdictions now have the ability to continue their trade in another location...garnishing the same Pension, putting Money back into the IO and the traveled to local. 

This is also in EVERYONE'S favor as in the case of the highly trained and skilled member who is sought after by contractors with Direct Hire capability within the IBEW...Bechtel is one of those...They can hire anyone, with expertise, from anywhere in the United States.

There are numerous situations where this has shown to be one of the IO's most prolific laws ever passed. 

Again, the reason locals such as 3 and others are not allowing Travelers is solely because they will not allow others to work in their Jurisdiction when there are members on the bench. 

And not for nothing...we have 15000 A Journeypersons in LU3 and average 15% unemployment during normal years. That's an average of 2,250 A Journeypersons...on the bench. That's more people than over 70% of the locals in the United States' membership rolls. We maintain ALL of our 2000 Apprentices working throughout the entire 5yr Program. 

So 360...as you see, there are a ton of factors that go into this...and they're all above my pay grade. But I have to reiterate...

Traveling is an IO Right, not to be infringed upon.

Thank you.


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> I don't think Local 3 should be able to carry the IBEW name. I assume the only reason that the IO hasn't broken ties with them completely is because the IO is so greedy for dues money.


LOL Hack eh?

And why do you think this? We are incredibly active within the IO and we literally fund the IBEW. 

Broken Ties...you're delusional.

When the IO needs men, LU3 steps up, when the IO needs political pressure, LU3 steps up, when the IO wants to reform education, LU3 steps up...As for your comment about "dues"...that shows that you have no idea how this Organization works. Dues don't fund this...the $9 Billion Dollars the LU3 is worth funds it. 

I apologize for my tone as I don't take kindly to someone spouting nonsense about the Organization that not only fought for Worker Rights in this City for well over 100 years but also for Human AND Civil Rights for all. Please educate me Hack...tell us all why you feel the way you do?


----------



## icefalkon

compuradon said:


> Do you know what first year apprentices start at? Is it different than what the document describes?


finding out for you


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> Local 3 founded the Work Share Program commonly known as Furlough. Six months minimum for every single member in the A Division. At this point there are 15 Local's that have adopted this process.


 When did that happen? What locals?

As far as we've always been told, there is absolutely no possibility for any other local to have the same type of furlough, the IO won't allow it. Local 3 only does it because they strong-armed the IO and did it on their own. Again, that is what we have been told for many years.

I'd like to hear about these 15 locals that could do it. And I'm not talking about just shortening work days either, I mean the furlough of taking men off the jobs and replacing them with members from the bench.




icefalkon said:


> LOL Hack eh?
> 
> And why do you think this? We are incredibly active within the IO and we literally fund the IBEW.
> 
> Broken Ties...you're delusional.


 No, the second sentence in this quote is what's delusional. You fund the IO, literally 



> When the IO needs men, LU3 steps up, when the IO needs political pressure, LU3 steps up, when the IO wants to reform education, LU3 steps up...As for your comment about "dues"...that shows that you have no idea how this Organization works. Dues don't fund this...the $9 Billion Dollars the LU3 is worth funds it.


 No, I was very clear about the dues. The IO is doing everything it can to bring in more dues money (example, the CE/CW program) so they wouldn't want to give up the dues from all the members in local 3.




> I apologize for my tone as I don't take kindly to someone spouting nonsense about the Organization that not only fought for Worker Rights in this City for well over 100 years but also for Human AND Civil Rights for all. Please educate me Hack...tell us all why you feel the way you do?


Local 3 doesn't follow the rules of the IBEW in many respects, from furlough to not allowing travelers even when book 1 is empty. Local 3 goes against much of what the IBEW stands for and therefore they shouldn't be a part of it. Let local 3 find a new name since it wants to do as it pleases and not as the IBEW dictates.

Local 3 uses the BS excuse that they are different than every other local in the country and that's why they do things differently. Well do it under a different name because you're pissing in the face of every other IBEW member.


----------



## BXSquish

icefalkon said:


> finding out for you


First year is 12.50. As a first year apprentice, I should know.


----------



## 360max

icefalkon said:


> EDIT
> 
> The original tenet of Traveling with the IBEW was to ensure that Local Members have the ABILITY to relocate FOR work. There is no pissing contest as to....you don't allow it so we won't allow you in.
> 
> THAT is not what this union is about.
> 
> That being said 360, your opinion is valid as it is your own. However, most of the older locals, and by saying so I specifically mean the Original 10...have rules on the books stating that they won't allow travelers in until all of their members are at full employment.
> 
> Local 3 founded the Work Share Program commonly known as Furlough. Six months minimum for every single member in the A Division. At this point there are 15 Local's that have adopted this process.
> 
> So again, there is no...if you don't let us in...you are not ALLOWED to travel. I believe I made this clear to you in another thread that
> 
> *Traveling is an International Organization (IO) Right within the IBEW that can not be infringed upon.*
> 
> This is to EVERYONE'S favor as in the case of members who are in smaller jurisdictions now have the ability to continue their trade in another location...garnishing the same Pension, putting Money back into the IO and the traveled to local.
> 
> This is also in EVERYONE'S favor as in the case of the highly trained and skilled member who is sought after by contractors with Direct Hire capability within the IBEW...Bechtel is one of those...They can hire anyone, with expertise, from anywhere in the United States.
> 
> There are numerous situations where this has shown to be one of the IO's most prolific laws ever passed.
> 
> Again, the reason locals such as 3 and others are not allowing Travelers is solely because they will not allow others to work in their Jurisdiction when there are members on the bench.
> 
> And not for nothing...we have 15000 A Journeypersons in LU3 and average 15% unemployment during normal years. That's an average of 2,250 A Journeypersons...on the bench. That's more people than over 70% of the locals in the United States' membership rolls. We maintain ALL of our 2000 Apprentices working throughout the entire 5yr Program.
> 
> So 360...as you see, there are a ton of factors that go into this...and they're all above my pay grade. But I have to reiterate...
> 
> Traveling is an IO Right, not to be infringed upon.
> 
> Thank you.


than stop coming on this site acting like local 3 is above all the other locals.


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> When did that happen? What locals?
> 
> As far as we've always been told, there is absolutely no possibility for any other local to have the same type of furlough, the IO won't allow it. Local 3 only does it because they strong-armed the IO and did it on their own. Again, that is what we have been told for many years.
> 
> I'd like to hear about these 15 locals that could do it.
> 
> _*Hawaii is one, I will find out the others. I guarantee you that there are others. I am not sure WHAT manner of propaganda bull**** you're referring to, but it is that. Propaganda. When we go to NTI to train NJATC Instructors the Work Share Program is an active topic. So whoever told you that it ISN'T allowed...is full of ****. There is no "strong arming the IO" LOL...that is a ridiculously uninformed statement Brother. This is 2013, and there is more continuity within many of the locals than ever before. So...now we'll go onto you next response.*_
> 
> 
> No, the second sentence in this quote is what's delusional. You fund the IO, literally
> 
> No, I was very clear about the dues. The IO is doing everything it can to bring in more dues money (example, the CE/CW program) so they wouldn't want to give up the dues from all the members in local 3.
> 
> _*LOL don't believe eh? You can find out. You seriously can....ask your Financial Secretary about how to inquire how much each individual local contributes to the IO. More of the Dues goes to the individual Local than to the IO. OUR Dues is around $200 every six months. Not sure what yours is...but I can tell you for a FACT that the IO doesn't get the Lions Share of that Brother.*_*
> 
> 
> 
> Local 3 doesn't follow the rules of the IBEW in many respects, from furlough to not allowing travelers even when book 1 is empty. Local 3 goes against much of what the IBEW stands for and therefore they shouldn't be a part of it. Let local 3 find a new name since it wants to do as it pleases and not as the IBEW dictates.
> 
> Local 3 uses the BS excuse that they are different than every other local in the country and that's why they do things differently. Well do it under a different name because you're pissing in the face of every other IBEW member.*


*

LOL now this I find absolutely amusing. OK Hack...what Local are you a member of? 

We were the THIRD organized Local and began the Work Share Program LONG LONG before any other local in this country had anywhere near the membership we have. THAT is why the IO allowed LU3 to create it. It has absolutely nothing to do with "strong arming"...check history...make some phone calls to DC and find out before spouting bull**** perhaps?

Now lets talk about your statement about Book 1...Did you read anything above or are you reacting out of impulse? When Book 1 IS empty Hack...we DO allow Travelers...now that I have said this in plain English perhaps you can understand. For Book 1 to be EMPTY...you have to have what....anyone...c'mon...ok...FULL EMPLOYMENT. Yes..the exact same thing I said above Hack.

Now lets talk about the other nonsensical comment about LU3 saying they're different than any other local in the country. Hmmm that too is absolute bull****. As a matter of fact one of the great things at the last IBEW Convention was the amount of camaraderie, brotherhood, and outreaching that was done between us, LU1, LU6, LU134, LU234, etc...to locals all around the nation. Again, you state complete and utter falsehood...but then again...you are jaded..now aren't you?

Lets go on to talk about you being the Banner Representative of the IBEW...because that's what you seem to think of yourself. I myself traveled and worked across this country for almost 10yrs in 5 Locals. I had an amazing time, and still have friends to this day from back then. I go away to teach IBEW Instructors every summer and this crap that you're spouting is definitely the voice of someone who has a "problem" that needs addressing. 

We are known to hold up the IBEW Code of Excellence and to have created the Mentoring Program that brings the feeling of Father/Son and Brotherhood back to a big city that lost those feelings in the 80's. We invite Instructors from sister locals INTO LU3 to teach as well as we are asked to come out to teach classes. 

So I wonder why you have this vehemence towards one of the strongest locals fighting every single day for the benefit of ALL workers...not just in NYC but in Albany and DC as well? It certainly seems that you have a specific gripe against LU3 that goes well beyond the norm.*


----------



## HackWork

Dude, you're spouting crap like I expected you to.



> More of the Dues goes to the individual Local than to the IO.
> ~
> ...but I can tell you for a FACT that the IO doesn't get the Lions Share of that Brother.


BS. My local gets like 4 dollars a month, the rest (almost $150 per quarter) goes to the IO :laughing: If I cared I would go look at my dues receipt and tell you the exact amounts, but I am sure you will ignore that so why bother? 

As for the work share program, I am not talking about cutting down on the length of the workday, I am talking about furloughing.

What other local in the IBEW can take men off the job and make them sit for a number of weeks and replace them with men from the bench in order to make the list move faster? Answer: None.



> When Book 1 IS empty Hack...we DO allow Travelers.


 After how long and how many other stipulations?

Local 3 goes against every single rule and tradition of traveling that the IBEW was built in.



> It certainly seems that you have a specific gripe against LU3 that goes well beyond the norm.


 Not at all. Most IBEW members feel this way about Local 3. Local 3 only cares about themselves, not their brothers in the IBEW.

That's why, IMO, they should just change their name to New York Electricians, Everyone Else Stay Out.


----------



## icefalkon

360max said:


> than stop coming on this site acting like local 3 is above all the other locals.


Strange...I have never...EVER done that 360. I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of others here who can refute what you just said. I never make that LU3 is "better than anyone" because I am a proponent that we are ALL the same and that we should ALL behave like Brothers. 

But Brothers squabble. You don't like the whole Furlough thing. 

You don't want to accept the answer, history and reasoning behind it. 

OK. Can't help that. I explained the history, the reasoning, and the why's of it. Anything after that isn't me...it's you Brother. 

I come here to help out people who have questions. That's what I do. 

If you feel this way it's because of you...not me. 

And...not for nothing...the unorganized LOVES reading **** like this LOL. So take it with a grain of salt and move on. This is a huge machine with what...a million electricians around the country. The largest unified trade organization in the world...or so the IO says. 

If there's no solidarity, then there is no unity.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> Strange...I have never...EVER done that 360. I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of others here who can refute what you just said. I never make that LU3 is "better than anyone" because I am a proponent that we are ALL the same and that we should ALL behave like Brothers.
> 
> But Brothers squabble. You don't like the whole Furlough thing.
> 
> You don't want to accept the answer, history and reasoning behind it.
> 
> OK. Can't help that. I explained the history, the reasoning, and the why's of it. Anything after that isn't me...it's you Brother.
> 
> I come here to help out people who have questions. That's what I do.
> 
> If you feel this way it's because of you...not me.
> 
> And...not for nothing...the unorganized LOVES reading **** like this LOL. So take it with a grain of salt and move on. This is a huge machine with what...a million electricians around the country. The largest unified trade organization in the world...or so the IO says.
> 
> If there's no solidarity, then there is no unity.


All this drivel from the guy who is defending the fact that his local won't let any of his "brothers" from other locals work in his territory :laughing::thumbup:


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> Dude, you're spouting crap like I expected you to.
> 
> 
> 
> BS. My local gets like 4 dollars a month, the rest (almost $150 per quarter) goes to the IO :laughing: If I cared I would go look at my dues receipt and tell you the exact amounts, but I am sure you will ignore that so why bother?
> 
> *LOL $4/month...really? At this point don't believe you're even a member of the IBEW. Or RATHER...you're SO jaded...specifically against LU3...that you felt the need to completely rant in a thread posted by an apprentice about getting accepted *
> 
> As for the work share program, I am not talking about cutting down on the length of the workday, I am talking about furloughing.
> 
> *What are you babbling about?*
> 
> What other local in the IBEW can take men off the job and make them sit for a number of weeks and replace them with men from the bench in order to make the list move faster? Answer: None.
> 
> *Wrong...Hawaii...and I have just been told I will have a list by Monday night. But for NOW...Hawaii and Maine both have Locals that utilize the Work Share Program. I'll get you the rest*
> 
> After how long and how many other stipulations?
> 
> Local 3 goes against every single rule and tradition of traveling that the IBEW was built in.
> 
> *You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about lol. Why don't you go on a certain Travelers website that...if you "know" so much...you know what one I'm talking about Hack...why don't you go THERE and find out how many locals will allow a traveler when there are Book 1 Men sitting on the Bench? *
> 
> Not at all. Most IBEW members feel this way about Local 3. Local 3 only cares about themselves, not their brothers in the IBEW.
> 
> *LOL and how would you know this I wonder? I mean...I go out to NTI every year, am on conference calls with sister locals every week, and can tell you without a doubt...you are full of sh*t on this one jack. You have some wicked sense of fantasy going on man. You really do.*
> 
> That's why, IMO, they should just change their name to New York Electricians, Everyone Else Stay Out.


*Another call just came in and we DO actually have Travelers working for Mass Electric. These brothers have been hired to instruct Linesmen. So, your entire argument is invalidated Hack. You should really...and I say this with all my fraternal compassion...get help for your jealousy sir. It's venom is eating you up from the inside.*


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> All this drivel from the guy who is defending the fact that his local won't let any of his "brothers" from other locals work in his territory :laughing::thumbup:


*LOL do you want the name of a good psychotherapist? 

A sign of narcissism is the refusal to hear, read, or accept any truth but your own.... *


----------



## 360max

icefalkon said:


> *Another call just came in and we DO actually have Travelers working for Mass Electric. These brothers have been hired to instruct Linesmen. So, your entire argument is invalidated Hack. You should really...and I say this with all my fraternal compassion...get help for your jealousy sir. It's venom is eating you up from the inside.*


again, looking down on other members from other territories. He does not live in your territory, yet you seem to think you are above or better than his and all are jealous


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> LOL $4/month...really? At this point don't believe you're even a member of the IBEW.


IO Portion:

$45 9 Dues
$45 25 PBF Contribution

Local Portion:

$12.60 10 Dues
$45 23 Retirement

The retirement fund is money that every member who dies or retires gets, $3 from each member in the local.

Once again, you said:



> More of the Dues goes to the individual Local than to the IO.
> ~
> ...but I can tell you for a FACT that the IO doesn't get the Lions Share of that Brother.


So who is talking out of their a$$? :thumbup:

Next up:

I said: "_As for the work share program, I am not talking about cutting down on the length of the workday, I am talking about furloughing._"

You said: "_What are you babbling about?_"

It's very clear what I am speaking about. No one is talking about the work share program as far as shortening the workday. What I have been speaking about from the beginning is furloughs. No other local does it, none. 

I have no hatred of the members of local 3, I am looking at the ESB right now as I type this. I live amongst and have worked amongst many local 3 men and am proud to call many friends. But even they don't lie to themselves like you do. They all admit that they are their own little club.


----------



## icefalkon

360max said:


> again, looking down on other members from other territories. He does not live in your territory, yet you seem to think you are above or better than his and all are jealous


LOL hey 360..have you been reading all of this? That's not looking down at all. That's me dealing with an asshat.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> LOL hey 360..have you been reading all of this? That's not looking down at all. That's me dealing with an asshat.


If 360max is agreeing with me than everyone reading this knows that you are the one who is way out of line here.

But it's OK, my pizza is here and I couldn't care less about someone with your horrible attitude. :thumbsup:


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> IO Portion:
> 
> $45 9 Dues
> $45 25 PBF Contribution
> 
> Local Portion:
> 
> $12.60 10 Dues
> $45 23 Retirement
> 
> *Where's the $4?*
> 
> The retirement fund is money that every member who dies or retires gets, $3 from each member in the local.
> 
> Once again, you said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who is talking out of their a$$? :thumbup:
> 
> Next up:
> 
> I said: "_As for the work share program, I am not talking about cutting down on the length of the workday, I am talking about furloughing._"
> 
> You said: "_What are you babbling about?_"
> 
> It's very clear what I am speaking about. No one is talking about the work share program as far as shortening the workday. What I have been speaking about from the beginning is furloughs. No other local does it, none.
> 
> *WTF does one thing have to do with the other Hack? The Work Share Program has nothing to do with amount of hours we work in a day. I certainly never said that it did.*
> 
> I have no hatred of the members of local 3, I am looking at the ESB right now as I type this. I live amongst and have worked amongst many local 3 men and am proud to call many friends. But even they don't lie to themselves like you do. They all admit that they are their own little club.


*Right...I'm sure. Lying to myself? Really? I was at a union meeting last night that was a packed house. And they weren't giving away free hotdogs LOL. If we pack an auditorium with rank and file members that believe in the Cause...you call that being an elite member of a club? I call that Brotherhood. *


----------



## 360max

.......


----------



## icefalkon

Eat well Brother. Peace to you.

Lets not forget that we have Travelers here...so there is no argument on that.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> Where's the $4?


$12 divided by 3 equals $4 per month :thumbup: 


With that, I am done with you. I will only talk to my real IBEW brothers.


----------



## HackWork

360max said:


> Ice, I am not against furloughs, in fact, I think it should be required in every local that requires members to pay dues. Many members have felt this way for decades


I' not against them either, it's just that we can't have them, no local could.


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> $12 divided by 3 equals $4 per month :thumbup:
> 
> 
> With that, I am done with you. I will only talk to my real IBEW brothers.


LOL your reasoning is beyond question. Your math skills however in the grand scheme could really use some work. I think you're reading that piece of paper wrong there Hack. We pay twice a year not Quarterly. 

Go eat, your blood sugar has got to be low.

No worries about us chatting Hack...I've taken you off my Christmas Card List. LOL


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> LOL your reasoning is beyond question. Your math skills however in the grand scheme could really use some work. I think you're reading that piece of paper wrong there Hack. Going by YOUR logic there are 4 people contributing $3 each?
> 
> Go eat, your blood sugar has got to be low.


I don't know what you are talking about.

The dues to my local is $12.60, $4 per month, that is where I got that number from when I mentioned it earlier. The only other thing that goes to my local is the $45 for retirement which changes every quarter depending on how many embers retired or die, we each give $3. That means $15 members retired or died last quarter.

In the end, your claims about the dues were completely wrong, just like the other claims you have made.




> More of the Dues goes to the individual Local than to the IO.
> ~
> ...but I can tell you for a FACT that the IO doesn't get the Lions Share of that Brother.


In total $90 goes to the IO while $12.60 goes to the local. (*The retirement amount goes directly to the members who retire or die)

$45 in dues to the IO and $12.60 in dues to the local.


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> All this drivel from the guy who is defending the fact that his local won't let any of his "brothers" from other locals work in his territory :laughing::thumbup:


What I find so comical about this is one, icefalkon allowed himself to get trolled by an amateur and two - since there are thousands of men riding the book I bench in local 3 there is no possibility even without the local 3 rules of book II folks going out to work.

That is like complaining that 102 isn't putting out travelers - well duh, no work to put them out on. Or complaining about how anti-union journeyman recall is...can you say self-furlough and screw your brothers any louder?

Every local has their own rules, local 3 just happens to have enough members and clout that the IO leaves them alone.


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> I' not against them either, it's just that we can't have them, no local could.


We actually have a furlough system on the books there hackysack - we just don't use it. The IO doesn't care one way or another - all they care about is organizing moar and keeping the population numbers up.


----------



## 360max

icefalkon said:


> Eat well Brother. Peace to you.
> 
> Lets not forget that we have Travelers here...so there is no argument on that.


...you have outside specialist who where brought in to train members, way to back out of the no travels argument.


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> What I find so comical about this is one, icefalkon allowed himself to get trolled by an amateur


 I've backed up every word that I posted, unlike you who just runs away when your BS is challenged.



> and two - since there are thousands of men riding the book I bench in local 3 there is no possibility even without the local 3 rules of book II folks going out to work.
> 
> That is like complaining that 102 isn't putting out travelers - well duh, no work to put them out on.


 That still doesn't change the fact that it's their policy. 

It's their policy to not care about their brothers in the IBEW, that is why I say they shouldn't even be a part of the IBEW.

BTW, local 102 as well as your local has HUNDREDS of out of territory men working in their territory right now. Do that in local 3 and they'll threaten your life- good brotherhood!!!!!

:laughing:



> Every local has their own rules, local 3 just happens to have enough members and clout that the IO leaves them alone.


Local 3's rules are anti-IBEW. That is all there is to it.


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> We actually have a furlough system on the books there hackysack - we just don't use it.


No, you do not, no local other than 3 has a furlough to pull men off of jobs and make them sit for weeks while other men are taken off the bench and put into their spots.


> The IO doesn't care one way or another - all they care about is organizing moar and keeping the population numbers up.


 That we agree on. And that's also a big part of the reason why the IO keeps local 3, they're not willing to give up the dues money of 15,000 men.


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> No, you do not, no local other than 3 has a furlough to pull men off of jobs and make them sit for weeks while other men are taken off the bench and put into their spots.


Yes, you are incorrect.


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> Yes, you are incorrect.


lol

Like I said, you are nothing but a bullcrapper.


----------



## icefalkon

360max said:


> ...you have outside specialist who where brought in to train members, way to back out of the no travels argument.


It's the truth. They are travelers and they are training Mass Electric Linesmen. 

Look at what EE said above. 

If there is no work for B1, then there is nothing for B2. That's easy.

If you are a specialist, you can be "invited" to work in any local.

If you are supervision,you can be directly hired by any Direct Hire Contractor.

These aren't LU3's rules, these are the IO's rules. They apply to each and every one of us.

EE is right...I got trolled. I owe u a dollar. LOL


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> It's the truth. They are travelers and they are training Mass Electric Linesmen.
> 
> Look at what EE said above.
> 
> If there is no work for B1, then there is nothing for B2. That's easy.
> 
> If you are a specialist, you can be "invited" to work in any local.
> 
> If you are supervision,you can be directly hired by any Direct Hire Contractor.
> 
> These aren't LU3's rules, these are the IO's rules. They apply to each and every one of us.
> 
> EE is right...I got trolled. I owe u a dollar. LOL


So you are too much of a little girl to admit you were dead wrong about the dues?

You also are to small to admit that your local's policy keeps travelers out and is incredibly anti-IBEW?

Figures...

Good technique, lose an argument and claim to be trolled to save face, nice...


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> I've backed up every word that I posted, unlike you who just runs away when your BS is challenged.
> 
> That still doesn't change the fact that it's their policy.
> 
> It's their policy to not care about their brothers in the IBEW, that is why I say they shouldn't even be a part of the IBEW.
> 
> BTW, local 102 as well as your local has HUNDREDS of out of territory men working in their territory right now. Do that in local 3 and they'll threaten your life- good brotherhood!!!!!
> 
> :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> Local 3's rules are anti-IBEW. That is all there is to it.


Yes, we have out of towners working in our territory - mostly 102 guys who are not bothering to check in. 

But it really doesn't matter - you are just trolling - saying whatever you think will get a rise out of folks and keep the attention on your pathetic self.

As far as what is or is not union - you sir are no authority on what that is. You might have a card and a dues receipt but I doubt you have ever acted like a good union brother once in your life.

You berate your brothers, you berate other electricians, you demean the men you work with and the ones around you.

When you act like a union electrician, then you can have an opinion. Until then, whine like troll you is.


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> lol
> 
> Like I said, you are nothing but a bullcrapper.


So since you made a false statement and I am not backing down on it, you are calling me a bullcrapper.

Good job whiner :thumbsup:


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> Yes, we have out of towners working in our territory - mostly 102 guys who are not bothering to check in.


 I always checked in :laughing:



> But it really doesn't matter - you are just trolling - saying whatever you think will get a rise out of folks and keep the attention on your pathetic self.


 That pathetic defense only works if what I said wasn't true. But everything I said was accurate.



> As far as what is or is not union - you sir are no authority on what that is. You might have a card and a dues receipt but I doubt you have ever acted like a good union brother once in your life.


 I've welcomed my brothers from all locals, that alone is more than icefalcon has ever done, and here you are defending his horrible attitude.



> You berate your brothers, you berate other electricians, you demean the men you work with and the ones around you.


 Not at all, everyone always loved to work with me and for me as a foreman and now I have guys calling me to work for my company. Remember, both you and icefalcon were the first people to start using insults in this thread.



> When you act like a union electrician, then you can have an opinion. Until then, whine like troll you is.


That's the point, I don't have an opinion here, I am just stating facts.


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> So since you made a false statement and I am not backing down on it, you are calling me a bullcrapper.
> 
> Good job whiner :thumbsup:


Show me the language that allows local 164 to furlough like NYC.

Simple, huh? 

OWNED. :whistling2:


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> That pathetic defense only works if what I said wasn't true. But everything I said was accurate.


Not quite, but hey why let facts get in the way of a good roll. 

And you cannot determine the difference between insulting folks and 'stating facts' then you are a troll and a moron.

welcome to my ignore list.


----------



## icefalkon

eejack said:


> Yes, you are incorrect.


LOL he does not understand the furlough program.

If you are Basic Work Force, when there is 10% or MORE unemployment for 2 consecutive months and 25% for more than one month, the Furlough Plan comes into effect. OK...

Now...what that mean is...

If you are Basic Work Force with a shop..that means the contractor likes your work, and wants to keep you. You can be a JW, Sub Foreman, Foreman, or General Foreman. You then are part of the system.

A predetermined number of weeks is made for YOU to take off of work. Say...10 weeks out of the work YEAR. Split up 5 straight, 3, then 2.

During that time, you collect unemployment as well as a stipend from the union boosting your take home *while *you ARE home anywhere up to $1200/week I believe. Remember, NY's unemployment is only $405/week MAXIMUM...which is $386 after taxes...weekly. So you take money out of YOUR own funds...to supplement it. With me so far?

Now...after your 5 week vacation...which it really is like...you go back to your contractor and continue working. 

The Contractor during this time...has to REPLACE you...with JW's...who are on the bench...the number he takes is determined by the size of the shop. So...a 25 man shop may only have to take 5 men off the bench and PROMISE to keep them EMPLOYED for a minimum of 6 months. Follow so far? OK....

These men are known as 26 Week Furlough Replacement Workers. They have a job ticket that guarantees them work for 6 months. If the contractor slows down, they get a Reduction of Work Force layoff and go right back out. 

The men who are part of the Basic Work Force take their time out as needed and are happy because they have a shop to go back to.

Now...the guys on the bench always seem to be split in two camps...

Camp 1. wants to do well and become Basic
Camp 2. wants to make a lot of money in 6 months and not be tied down to any one shop. They enjoy having 6 months off a year and can live on what they make in the time they are working. Yes they have other sources of income maybe...but that's neither here nor there. 

So...that is HOW the Work Share Program goes. Has it cleared anything up?


----------



## icefalkon

eejack said:


> Not quite, but hey why let facts get in the way of a good roll.
> 
> And you cannot determine the difference between insulting folks and 'stating facts' then you are a troll and a moron.
> 
> welcome to my ignore list.


LOL I told him he wasn't getting any Christmas Cards. Did I hit the wrong button?


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> Show me the language that allows local 164 to furlough like NYC.
> 
> Simple, huh?
> 
> OWNED. :whistling2:


Show me where we don't. ( Article 2.10 and 2.11 )
Show me where the IO prohibits it.
Show me where no other local has it.

Whiner. :thumbup:


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> Not quite, but hey why let facts get in the way of a good roll.
> 
> And you cannot determine the difference between insulting folks and 'stating facts' then you are a troll and a moron.
> 
> welcome to my ignore list.


How convenient that you pull this right before I ask you to show the actual language.

Icefalcon, you want to cover for your buddy or just let him go as a liar?


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> LOL he does not understand the furlough program.


I know only a little bit about it. But so what?

I like it from what I know, I never said that I didn't.

The thing is... your entire post has nothing to do with this conversation.

No matter how the furlough works, the only thing I have said is that local 3 is the only local that can do it. That is a fact. No other local could do it. eejack lied about his local and then crawled away when asked to prove it.


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> Show me where we don't. ( Article 2.10 and 2.11 )
> Show me where the IO prohibits it.
> Show me where no other local has it.
> 
> Whiner. :thumbup:


Let me show you something:



eejack said:


> *We actually have a furlough system on the books* there hackysack - we just don't use it.


If so, you would post it.

The fact that you aren't posting it proves that you lied.

It couldn't get any simpler...


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> How convenient that you pull this right before I ask you to show the actual language.
> 
> Icefalcon, you want to cover for your buddy or just let him go as a liar?


Look up.

Read words.

Cry some more.


----------



## icefalkon

This is too funny. So now I am sending an email to someone in the IO to ask for specific language concerning this topic. 

Hack has issues, that's fine. He hasn't backed up anything, because he is relying on false information from the start. 

If you don't know HOW something works or WHY it's there, or WHETHER anyone else has it...you "assume" that no one else does. That is completely false. Hawaii and LU's in Maine use it. EE said they have a similar program as well that may be under utilized, but it's there. So that's even MORE that takes away from your statement Hack. 

Next...you claim to know the feelings of "alllllllllllll" these other Locals towards LU3. How is that? Are you involved? Do you perhaps volunteer? Do you travel? LOL here goes...

Have you EVER traveled? I have...and experienced NOTHING like what you're saying _"Brother"_ 

Quite the opposite in fact.


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> Look up.
> 
> Read words.
> 
> Cry some more.


I thought I was on your ignore list?

Yet another lie :thumbup::laughing:


There's nothing to see by looking up because you didn't post it.


----------



## eejack

HackWork said:


> Let me show you something:
> 
> 
> 
> If so, you would post it.
> 
> The fact that you aren't posting it proves that you lied.
> 
> It couldn't get any simpler...


I did - articles 2.10 and 2.11 - I'll be damned if I am going to bother transcribing it for you because you will just claim I made it up.

You are pathetic when faced with facts - like all trolls who hide from the light.

Still waiting for your proof the IO prohibits it.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> This is too funny. So now I am sending an email to someone in the IO to ask for specific language concerning this topic.
> 
> Hack has issues, that's fine. He hasn't backed up anything, because he is relying on false information from the start.


 I am going off of information that our BA's have been telling us for years as we've tried to implement our own furlough system.

It's just not possible.

Now I got you saying 15 locals do it? Bull

Now I got eejack saying my own sister local has it on their books? BULL


----------



## HackWork

eejack said:


> I did - articles 2.10 and 2.11 - I'll be damned if I am going to bother transcribing it for you because you will just claim I made it up.


Take a picture.

Or I can lie like you and say that article 2942.1432 says local 164 can't furlough. That was easy :thumbup:


It's funny how you lie and now are backpeddling...


----------



## gold

Ibew doesn't seem very brotherly. I'm glad I'm not union. I prefer working around GOOD electricians.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> He hasn't backed up anything


Even after I completely exposed your lie about "the lions share" of dues going to the local instead of the IO?

Like I said, small man...


----------



## HackWork

Goldagain said:


> Ibew doesn't seem very brotherly. I'm glad I'm not union. I prefer working around *GOOD electricians*.


You won't find that in either one of their locals.

Both of their locals are filled with men who will complain that $50+/hr isn't enough money and promote stopping work an hour early to hang around because "they deserve" it. 

I remember seeing local 164 guys sitting around until 8:30 every morning, getting up to work for half an hour, then going on a 45 minutes coffee break. That was the normal about 9-10 years ago, eejack knows EXACTLY what I am talking about :thumbup::laughing:


----------



## gold

Why do you think those towers are taking so long? They have to hire 8 jman to get a days work. They call it 8 for 8.


----------



## tjy1004

compuradon said:


> Good luck TJ! I may have seen you over there at the medical office -- I had a 3:20pm appointment. Have you heard anything about starting classes yet? Someone over there mentioned something about Sept., but I have still not heard from SUNY Empire State.


I had a appointment at 6:10pm. Almost missed lol.. I didn't hear anything about classes but I'm sure we will hear something from Empire State College. Good luck!


----------



## icefalkon

tjy1004 said:


> I had a appointment at 6:10pm. Almost missed lol.. I didn't hear anything about classes but I'm sure we will hear something from Empire State College. Good luck!


You guys will hear something during the summer about when you're starting.

Classes start in September...both College and Theory. You guys will be called down to us for Basic Wiring and OSHA 10. 

Congratulations and welcome aboard!


----------



## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> Congratulations!!!
> 
> Wasn't sure if I said that yet...LOL
> 
> I'll see you next semester!


I'm still waiting and never got a phone call, I wonder should I just call them to see what's up


----------



## icefalkon

Hi Alex,

Yes, if I was you, I would call the Joint Industry Board of the Electrical Industry and see what's going on.


----------



## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> Yes, if I was you, I would call the Joint Industry Board of the Electrical Industry and see what's going on.


I just called and she said(very nicely I might add) that I'm still being considered and they have called everyone for the sept class and the next class for Jan would be called Nov/Dec. At least I know where I stand.


----------



## icefalkon

There you go. Stay in school, keep calm and carry on!


----------



## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> There you go. Stay in school, keep calm and carry on!


Thanks I'm patiently waiting for the call, hopefully for next class.


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> Hello Sal,
> 
> At this time no. Westchester/Fairfield is now Local 3 North. They are only allowing travelers in when they are requested for special projects. They fall under Local 3's By Law stating that we have to be at full employment for X amount of time before opening the doors to Travelers. I "think" it's one calendar year, I'm not sure, but I will find out.


Ooops! I'm sorry" Local 3 North" I meant.. It's silly but, last time I checked my card we were still considered Westchester/Fairfield.


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> LOL he does not understand the furlough program.
> 
> If you are Basic Work Force, when there is 10% or MORE unemployment for 2 consecutive months and 25% for more than one month, the Furlough Plan comes into effect. OK...
> 
> Now...what that mean is...
> 
> If you are Basic Work Force with a shop..that means the contractor likes your work, and wants to keep you. You can be a JW, Sub Foreman, Foreman, or General Foreman. You then are part of the system.
> 
> A predetermined number of weeks is made for YOU to take off of work. Say...10 weeks out of the work YEAR. Split up 5 straight, 3, then 2.
> 
> During that time, you collect unemployment as well as a stipend from the union boosting your take home while you ARE home anywhere up to $1200/week I believe. Remember, NY's unemployment is only $405/week MAXIMUM...which is $386 after taxes...weekly. So you take money out of YOUR own funds...to supplement it. With me so far?
> 
> Now...after your 5 week vacation...which it really is like...you go back to your contractor and continue working.
> 
> The Contractor during this time...has to REPLACE you...with JW's...who are on the bench...the number he takes is determined by the size of the shop. So...a 25 man shop may only have to take 5 men off the bench and PROMISE to keep them EMPLOYED for a minimum of 6 months. Follow so far? OK....
> 
> These men are known as 26 Week Furlough Replacement Workers. They have a job ticket that guarantees them work for 6 months. If the contractor slows down, they get a Reduction of Work Force layoff and go right back out.
> 
> The men who are part of the Basic Work Force take their time out as needed and are happy because they have a shop to go back to.
> 
> Now...the guys on the bench always seem to be split in two camps...
> 
> Camp 1. wants to do well and become Basic
> Camp 2. wants to make a lot of money in 6 months and not be tied down to any one shop. They enjoy having 6 months off a year and can live on what they make in the time they are working. Yes they have other sources of income maybe...but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> So...that is HOW the Work Share Program goes. Has it cleared anything up?


Ice!! I love how you glorify a program that hasn't worked for a number of yrs now with this high unemployment. 
Local 3 is an evil union with no regard to camaraderie as you have spoken about. Brother, no pun against you and I'm happy to hear such great words spoken by you for a union that hasn't set any precedence in the last 20 years but, more so the last 6 years. We need to move forward and help our brothers equally. Not just those like you that seem to get involved within our local organization and have their own agenda in mind.


----------



## icefalkon

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Ice!! I love how you glorify a program that hasn't worked for a number of yrs now with this high unemployment.
> Local 3 is an evil union with no regard to camaraderie as you have spoken about. Brother, no pun against you and I'm happy to hear such great words spoken by you for a union that hasn't set any precedence in the last 20 years but, more so the last 6 years. We need to move forward and help our brothers equally. Not just those like you that seem to get involved within our local organization and have their own agenda in mind.


I don't know Sal...I certainly don't mind the furlough...I like it a hell of a lot better than 4 weeks vacation. I asked around the job this afternoon about the men's thoughts and just about every guy on the job (52 as of today) felt that it works...it's not perfect...but it works. Where else are you going to get over a years worth of medical for only having to work 6 months at the worst? No where. Where else can you pretty much be guaranteed to work at LEAST for 6 months out of the year? Remember...that in 6 months you can made between 40-60K...Where else can you be guaranteed that? No Where.

I don't understand your comment about LU3 being evil with no regard for camaraderie? That doesn't make much sense...as we have 29 individual Clubs within Local 3 to suit just about anyone's taste. From the Masons, to the Religious Clubs (Jewish, Catholic, Protestant), to having a club for each of the Five Boroughs of NYC (Allied, Acorn, Colonly, Betsold, Staten Island)...to the ethnic clubs (Latino, African American), the LU 3 Motorcycle Club which does runs from NYC to DC all the time to raise money for charities....There's the Sportsman's Club for whoever's into hunting and fishing...I've left a few out...but this is just to say...what the heck are you talking about? The local pushes camaraderie and brotherhood. Some guys get jaded and some guys never even cared. But I can tell you this...if you WANT to feel like you belong to something...joining a club...or helping out at an event does it.

Now as for what you said about helping others..not just those "like me" who get involved...? Hmmm ok. Let me tell you about what happens when you "get involved". Do you know the first...the VERY first thing that home office wants to know about you...as an individual? They want to know if you have an agenda. Do you have an ulterior motive for helping out. If you do, or rather...if they THINK you do...you are out. They don't want your help. Thank you very much.

They don't need people there who don't want to volunteer for the right reasons. I am a prime example of this. I haven't gotten a job because of helping out, I haven't gotten any special treatment for volunteering to teach Journeymen Classes, I have gotten anything "extra" in my check, in my bennies, or in my pocket for showing up at Rallies, helping with Phone Banking, working the Golden Gloves...nope...nothing. I have survived for 27yrs in LU3 by my own merit. 

Now that's me. Are there guys who aren't like this? Yup. Are there guys who make others look bad? Yup. Are there guys who are taken care of for whatever reason? Yup. 

It's not for me to determine who gets...taken care of...or not. It's above my pay grade. I'm a General Foreman and an NJATC Instructor for the Local. That's it. 

This union survives and thrives by members volunteering their time. That goes all the way back to Harry Van Arsdale himself. Giving back to the union that gives a lot of opportunity to you. That's how we are taught from day one in the Apprenticeship. It's a cult...it truly is. 

Now I'll go back a bit about what you said about the last 20yrs vs the last 6yrs. You know what Sal...?

I agree with you. 

There are countless stories about how things were before we stopped taking travelers...about how LU3, LU134, and LU6 were always working in concert...how there was communication between the East and West Coasts...and Central. For whatever reason there was at the time...we stopped paying attention to what the outside world was doing. I felt that was a mistake, so did my grandfather and father at the time. What are you going to do? 

Also remember Sal...there are 30,000 LU3 members on the books right now. 30K...That's a LOT of people to take care of don't you think? 

If there's something you or any member doesn't like about their individual local, it is fully within your rights as an IBEW Member to write the IO. You can also write you Business Manager and say what is on your mind.

So in closing...I don't mind the furlough program, there is TONS of camaraderie within the Local...come to the Sign Up Meeting where all the clubs are there and see for yourself...and if you hear of someone getting something special for volunteering...let me know...cause I don't want to be left out!

Peace.


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> I don't know Sal...I certainly don't mind the furlough...I like it a hell of a lot better than 4 weeks vacation. I asked around the job this afternoon about the men's thoughts and just about every guy on the job (52 as of today) felt that it works...it's not perfect...but it works. Where else are you going to get over a years worth of medical for only having to work 6 months at the worst? No where. Where else can you pretty much be guaranteed to work at LEAST for 6 months out of the year? Remember...that in 6 months you can made between 40-60K...Where else can you be guaranteed that? No Where.
> 
> I don't understand your comment about LU3 being evil with no regard for camaraderie? That doesn't make much sense...as we have 29 individual Clubs within Local 3 to suit just about anyone's taste. From the Masons, to the Religious Clubs (Jewish, Catholic, Protestant), to having a club for each of the Five Boroughs of NYC (Allied, Acorn, Colonly, Betsold, Staten Island)...to the ethnic clubs (Latino, African American), the LU 3 Motorcycle Club which does runs from NYC to DC all the time to raise money for charities....There's the Sportsman's Club for whoever's into hunting and fishing...I've left a few out...but this is just to say...what the heck are you talking about? The local pushes camaraderie and brotherhood. Some guys get jaded and some guys never even cared. But I can tell you this...if you WANT to feel like you belong to something...joining a club...or helping out at an event does it.
> 
> Now as for what you said about helping others..not just those "like me" who get involved...? Hmmm ok. Let me tell you about what happens when you "get involved". Do you know the first...the VERY first thing that home office wants to know about you...as an individual? They want to know if you have an agenda. Do you have an ulterior motive for helping out. If you do, or rather...if they THINK you do...you are out. They don't want your help. Thank you very much.
> 
> They don't need people there who don't want to volunteer for the right reasons. I am a prime example of this. I haven't gotten a job because of helping out, I haven't gotten any special treatment for volunteering to teach Journeymen Classes, I have gotten anything "extra" in my check, in my bennies, or in my pocket for showing up at Rallies, helping with Phone Banking, working the Golden Gloves...nope...nothing. I have survived for 27yrs in LU3 by my own merit.
> 
> Now that's me. Are there guys who aren't like this? Yup. Are there guys who make others look bad? Yup. Are there guys who are taken care of for whatever reason? Yup.
> 
> It's not for me to determine who gets...taken care of...or not. It's above my pay grade. I'm a General Foreman and an NJATC Instructor for the Local. That's it.
> 
> This union survives and thrives by members volunteering their time. That comes all the way back from Harry Van Arsdale himself. Giving back to the union that gives a lot of opportunity to you. That's how we are taught from day one in the Apprenticeship. It's a cult...it truly is.
> 
> Now I'll go back a bit about what you said about the last 20yrs vs the last 6yrs. You know what Sal...?
> 
> I agree with you.
> 
> There are countless stories about how things were before we stopped taking travelers...about how LU3, LU134, and LU6 were always working in concert...how there was communication between the East and West Coasts...and Central. For whatever reason there was at the time...we stopped paying attention to what the outside world was doing. I felt that was a mistake, so did my grandfather and father at the time. What are you going to do?
> 
> Also remember Sal...there are 30,000 LU3 members on the books right now. 30K...That's a LOT of people to take care of don't you think?
> 
> If there's something you or any member doesn't like about their individual local, it is fully within your rights as an IBEW Member to write the IO. You can also write you Business Manager and say what is on your mind.
> 
> So in closing...I don't mind the furlough program, there is TONS of camaraderie within the Local...come to the Sign Up Meeting where all the clubs are there and see for yourself...and if you hear of someone getting something special for volunteering...let me know...cause I don't want to be left out!
> 
> Peace.


Ice! Well said!! Although, their are a few discrepancies I will start with a few. 

1) In the last 6yrs how much time have you spent sitting on the bench?

2) 6ms worth of work making 40-60k. That's a lot ?? Your joking right?

3) furlough doesn't work!! its been proven.. how much more evidence is needed??


----------



## icefalkon

As for Hack...I have heard that he is a jaded contractor who trolls here often to start trouble.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> As for Hack...I have heard that he is a jaded contractor who trolls here often to start trouble.


So you wait 4 days after my last post to get another jab in?

Are you still mad because I proved you to be a liar about the dues money? You still haven't commented about that, you carefully slithered around it like a slimy little snake. You were dead wrong, I proved it, yet you won't admit it just like with the "15 unions that furlough!". BULLSH1T. Only Local 3 does it. No other local does it, and Local 164 does NOT have it on the books. If they did, eejack would have taken a picture of it just to shut me up. But instead, he cowered away just like you, saying he was going to ignore me :thumbup:

Salvatoreg02, don't listen to guys like him because they lie out their ass.

I know 3 men who were laid off in the last month that got sent right back out to work as shop stewards. Each of those men volunteer at the hall, from doing election work to hosting the beefsteaks and Christmas party's.

We all know that it's done, hell, I'm not even complaining. But it's funny watching liars like icefalkon say that he doesn't see it and it doesn't happen :laughing::laughing:

Be real and honest for once in your life, just once.

As for me, I'm not jaded at all. I was happy in the union and I am happy now, what more could I ask for?


----------



## icefalkon

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Ice! Well said!! Although, their are a few discrepancies I will start with a few.
> 
> 1) In the last 6yrs how much time have you spent sitting on the bench?
> 
> 2) 6ms worth of work making 40-60k. That's a lot ?? Your joking right?
> 
> 3) furlough doesn't work!! its been proven.. how much more evidence is needed??


1. None. I have been running 60-80 man jobs for the last decade and a half Sal. I have no problem taking furlough, at all. People seem to forget that the time you are "off"...you are collecting unemployment AND receiving a stipend from LU3 to stay home and watch cartoons, be with your family, and relax.

2. OK...there are people surviving on far less than $40K Brother. Far far less. The entire point of having to take a furlough is to make sure that every member gets a chance to work. We prepare for it by saving for it.

3. Doesn't work? That's strange...we have 15,000 A Journeyman in NYC and about 8,000 are Basic Work Force for 247 Signatory Contractors. All things being UNEQUAL...the larger shops can lay off 300-500 at a pop...that's more men than some Locals even have. So....it doesn't work that we manage to keep these other 7,000 men working? What's the Plan B...?

We have managed to keep most of these guys with medical, with benefits, with a salary for six months out of the year. That's 7000 men and women that have been able to keep their respective dental, optical, and medical insurance. When we increased the fund to allow unemployed journeymen to keep their medical benefits when times are bad to 52 weeks...that was monumental. An entire year...of being laid off...on the bench...and you...your family...maintain your bennies.

Hmmm you say it doesn't work? I say...wrong. It does work...people have the wrong concept of what Furlough is about. As I stated earlier I have a call out as to what other locals have a furlough system in place. One for sure is Hawaii and I was told there are Locals in Maine that do as well. I love how people...who don't believe their Business Reps for anything ELSE...do believe them when they tell you things about LU3. Understand that there are TONS of individual rules that other locals abide by that we do not abide by. Such as...

All Instructors get paid to teach. No matter who they teach...we don't do that. Teaching JW Classes is done by volunteer instructors.

Double Time for Sundays...we have never had this here in LU3

Blah blah blah...enough time spent on this. There are those (Hack) who will nay say anything to try to make his reality everyone else's. 

Fact of the matter is that there is more Brotherhood between Locals now than there has been in the last 20yrs as Sal has said. 

Sal...I am wondering if you are working now? Are you part of the LU3-N that is working in NYC? I know we just took a bunch of guys from up there for the Asbestos Abatement PLA. When was the last time you came to a union meeting? Your Business Rep Paul R. spends a good 10+ minutes giving us the Westchester/Fairfield Report and I know for a fact that two of the instructors from up there...who have taken my class attend regularly....

So...in essence...we can agree to disagree. I know Officers of Local 3 that were out of work for a YEAR...OFFICERS...so saying that if you "help out" gets you work...that's a bunch of crap. One of the guys with me now is VERY active and he also was out for 51 weeks...Being out doesn't stop people from helping out. It's easy to help out in good times...but the guys who are there in the bad times also...who take it on the chin and KEEP helping out...those guys know what Brotherhood is about. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> So you wait 4 days after my last post to get another jab in?
> 
> Are you still mad because I proved you to be a liar about the dues money? You still haven't commented about that, you carefully slithered around it like a slimy little snake. You were dead wrong, I proved it, yet you won't admit it just like with the "15 unions that furlough!". BULLSH1T. Only Local 3 does it. No other local does it, and Local 164 does NOT have it on the books. If they did, eejack would have taken a picture of it just to shut me up. But instead, he cowered away just like you, saying he was going to ignore me :thumbup:
> 
> Salvatoreg02, don't listen to guys like him because they lie out their ass.
> 
> I know 3 men who were laid off in the last month that got sent right back out to work as shop stewards. Each of those men volunteer at the hall, from doing election work to hosting the beefsteaks and Christmas party's.
> 
> We all know that it's done, hell, I'm not even complaining. But it's funny watching liars like icefalkon say that he doesn't see it and it doesn't happen :laughing::laughing:
> 
> Be real and honest for once in your life, just once.
> 
> As for me, I'm not jaded at all. I was happy in the union and I am happy now, what more could I ask for?


Listen to yourself. LOL

I *was *happy in the union...

I already told you that Hawaii *DOES *in fact have a furlough system.

Because EE refuses to play your petty game of who pisses louder does not in fact make you right Hack.

As a matter of fact you can read yourself how the IBEW and Federal unions are negotiating furlough systems all over the country. 

You come here with bull**** because of a few guys you know...who went out as STEWARDS? LOL REALLY?

You have just made the transition from ass hat to ass clown. LOL 

Come ON already...ok smart ass...who would you rather have being a Steward? Someone who KNOWS the rules and who is going to look out for YOU...or some jerk that the contractor pushes into the slot? 

Oh wait...you're a contractor now...aren't you? Hmmm...take your petty bullsh*t lies and vileness and shove them up your ass. All you are to me...and by me I mean...IBEW Member...is a glorified Scab. 

Take THAT to the bank sir. 

I look forward to reading about you in the back of The Electrical Worker Magazine...


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> Listen to yourself. LOL
> 
> I *was *happy in the union...


 Yes, I was. As we loose more marketshare the work got too slow, I didn't have anymore moves to make, so I had to find work elsewhere. What's the problem with that?



> I already told you that Hawaii *DOES *in fact have a furlough system.


 I don't believe you and you haven't given one bit of evidence to support your claim except for your word which we already know is meaningless.



> Because EE refuses to play your petty game of who pisses louder does not in fact make you right Hack.


 Just like you are avoiding talking about how you were lying about the dues money to the IO being more than to the local, eejack is avoiding talking about the "furlough on the books in local 164" because he is lying about it. 



> As a matter of fact you can read yourself how the IBEW and Federal unions are negotiating furlough systems all over the country.


 WHERE can I read that? I want to see where it is put into 15 locals contracts like you said. Hell, just show me ONE.

You come here with bull**** because of a few guys you know...who went out as STEWARDS? LOL REALLY?



> You have just made the transition from ass hat to ass clown. LOL


 All you could do is insult me, you can't refute what I say.



> Come ON already...ok smart ass...who would you rather have being a Steward? Someone who KNOWS the rules and who is going to look out for YOU...or some jerk that the contractor pushes into the slot?


 Like I said, i am not complaining about it. But don't go acting like the guys who volunteer don't get sent out when they normally wouldn't. I HATE when you people do that. Why lie to yourselves?



> Oh wait...you're a contractor now...aren't you? Hmmm...take your petty bullsh*t lies and vileness and shove them up your ass. All you are to me...and by me I mean...IBEW Member...is a glorified Scab.


 Yes, I am a contractor now and my local knows that and knows that I do work that doesn't compete.



> Take THAT to the bank sir.
> 
> I look forward to reading about you in the back of The Electrical Worker Magazine...


And you are STIL not going to comment about how you lied about the dues money as well as about 15 locals having furlough...? Wow :laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> Yes, I was. As we loose more marketshare the work got too slow, I didn't have anymore moves to make, so I had to find work elsewhere. What's the problem with that?
> 
> I don't believe you and you haven't given one bit of evidence to support your claim except for your word which we already know is meaningless.
> 
> Just like you are avoiding talking about how you were lying about the dues money to the IO being more than to the local, eejack is avoiding talking about the "furlough on the books in local 164" because he is lying about it.
> 
> WHERE can I read that? I want to see where it is put into 15 locals contracts like you said. Hell, just show me ONE.
> 
> You come here with bull**** because of a few guys you know...who went out as STEWARDS? LOL REALLY?
> 
> All you could do is insult me, you can't refute what I say.
> 
> Like I said, i am not complaining about it. But don't go acting like the guys who volunteer don't get sent out when they normally wouldn't. I HATE when you people do that. Why lie to yourselves?
> 
> Yes, I am a contractor now and my local knows that and knows that I do work that doesn't compete.
> 
> 
> And you are STIL not going to comment about how you lied about the dues money as well as about 15 locals having furlough...? Wow :laughing::laughing::laughing:


I'm getting proof now. Lied? No one lied here at all. You're a disgruntled former member who is nothing more than someone who was never a brother to begin with.

As I stated. Google is your friend use it. As a matter of fact...you will see 1187 when you yourself actually research something before mouthing off like a spoiled 12yr old.

My dues are $217 semi-annually...what is this ridiculous lying you're spouting? I said I don't think you're reading it correctly. Perhaps you gave so much to the IO because you didn't have the membership numbers OR contractor participation. That's irrelevant. 

Its funny to hear someone badmouth in one breath and then in another try to play down the fact that they have done NOTHING but become the opposition to our way of life. You can "claim" all YOU want that you aren't bidding on our work...but just like everything else you spout....you and I both know you're lying. I'd be VERY surprised if your former local believes that either.

Childish fist Pumper crying because you are jealous that you didn't have the same benefit that we have. That's all I'm seeing here.

Just saying....


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> I'm getting proof now. Lied? No one lied here at all. You're a disgruntled former member who is nothing more than someone who was never a brother to begin with.


 I'm not disgruntled at all. Just because I am calling you out for lies, it doesn't mean that I have any issues. I honestly couldn't be happier, while you clearly have issues going on in your life to make you talk down to me the way you have been. Extremely immature.



> Its funny to hear someone badmouth in one breath and then in another try to play down the fact that they have done NOTHING but become the opposition to our way of life.


 Not at all. When I sat down and spoke with 3 BA's about it, they all told me it wouldn't be a wis choice to become signatory right now. 



> You can "claim" all YOU want that you aren't bidding on our work...but just like everything else you spout....you and I both know you're lying. I'd be VERY surprised if your former local believes that either.


 Everything that I have said is 100% honest. You, on the other hand, have lied about everything. Even now, you said you were done responding to me and you were going to put me on your ignore list, yet 4 days after I stopped responding you decided to bring me back up and you clearly don't have me on Ignore. Liar :laughing:



> Childish fist Pumper crying because you are jealous that you didn't have the same benefit that we have. That's all I'm seeing here.
> 
> Just saying....


 So now what? You are making fun of me because I am from New Jersey?? :thumbup:

That just shows what you really are...

I can't wait for local 3 to be kicked out of the IBEW, good riddance.


----------



## HackWork

There's 15 locals (other than Local 3) in the IBEW that furlough but he can't show proof that just one of them does it :whistling2:





:thumbup::laughing:


----------



## 360max

icefalkon said:


> I'm getting proof now. Lied? No one lied here at all. You're a disgruntled former member who is nothing more than someone who was never a brother to begin with.
> 
> As I stated. Google is your friend use it. As a matter of fact...you will see 1187 when you yourself actually research something before mouthing off like a spoiled 12yr old.
> 
> My dues are $217 semi-annually...what is this ridiculous lying you're spouting? I said I don't think you're reading it correctly. Perhaps you gave so much to the IO because you didn't have the membership numbers OR contractor participation. That's irrelevant.
> 
> Its funny to hear someone badmouth in one breath and then in another try to play down the fact that they have done NOTHING but become the opposition to our way of life. You can "claim" all YOU want that you aren't bidding on our work...but just like everything else you spout....you and I both know you're lying. I'd be VERY surprised if your former local believes that either.
> 
> Childish fist Pumper crying because you are jealous that you didn't have the same benefit that we have. That's all I'm seeing here.
> 
> Just saying....


Icefalcon, IMO, the IO should mandate furloughs to every local in the organization, all Brothers should experience layoffs, not just a certain percentage, but they will not do it.


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> I'm not disgruntled at all. Just because I am calling you out for lies, it doesn't mean that I have any issues. I honestly couldn't be happier, while you clearly have issues going on in your life to make you talk down to me the way you have been. Extremely immature.
> 
> Not at all. When I sat down and spoke with 3 BA's about it, they all told me it wouldn't be a wis choice to become signatory right now.
> 
> Everything that I have said is 100% honest. You, on the other hand, have lied about everything. Even now, you said you were done responding to me and you were going to put me on your ignore list, yet 4 days after I stopped responding you decided to bring me back up and you clearly don't have me on Ignore. Liar :laughing:
> 
> So now what? You are making fun of me because I am from New Jersey?? :thumbup:
> 
> That just shows what you really are...
> 
> I can't wait for local 3 to be kicked out of the IBEW, good riddance.


LOL you'll have a long wait for that scab. 

No...I don't care that you're in NJ...shame that they have to deal with you. I can't WAIT to ask the guys from your local about you...this is going to be interesting.

Local 1187 has a furlough system in place...that's plain English...isn't it. I said I THINK there are like 15...but wasn't sure and AM waiting on information as to what others. But your argument is invalidated because even if a SINGLE Local other than LU3 has it...you are wrong. Why is that so hard to understand. Why is it that you have such a poor view of yourself in the grand scheme that you feel the need to be jealous of something that you don't have. Why is it that you feel the need to continue thinking of yourself as a Union Brother, when in fact, you never were...were you?

You can't "wait" for LU3 to get kicked out of the IBEW? I see you pay about as much attention to the IO as you do research...because if you HAD or DID ever pay attention to what goes on at the IO...you would have clearly known that LU3 has always had a position within the IO. But no...that's too much for you to comprehend isn't it? I know...they're all out to get you right? Big mean LU3 hurt Hack somewhere in the past...and now you're a bitter contractor...oh wait...a bitter non union contractor. ::shaking head::

You complain about all of US who are involved, those who try to educate and help others...and want to see the second largest local in the United States kicked out because of something you don't like...that you clearly don't understand. That makes TONS of sense doesn't it? Note the sarcasm...just in case it wasn't evident here Hack.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> LOL you'll have a long wait for that scab.
> 
> No...I don't care that you're in NJ...shame that they have to deal with you. I can't WAIT to ask the guys from your local about you...this is going to be interesting.
> 
> Local 1187 has a furlough system in place...that's plain English...isn't it. I said I THINK there are like 15...but wasn't sure and AM waiting on information as to what others. But your argument is invalidated because even if a SINGLE Local other than LU3 has it...you are wrong. Why is that so hard to understand. Why is it that you have such a poor view of yourself in the grand scheme that you feel the need to be jealous of something that you don't have. Why is it that you feel the need to continue thinking of yourself as a Union Brother, when in fact, you never were...were you?
> 
> You can't "wait" for LU3 to get kicked out of the IBEW? I see you pay about as much attention to the IO as you do research...because if you HAD or DID ever pay attention to what goes on at the IO...you would have clearly known that LU3 has always had a position within the IO. But no...that's too much for you to comprehend isn't it? I know...they're all out to get you right? Big mean LU3 hurt Hack somewhere in the past...and now you're a bitter contractor...oh wait...a bitter non union contractor. ::shaking head::
> 
> You complain about all of US who are involved, those who try to educate and help others...and want to see the second largest local in the United States kicked out because of something you don't like...that you clearly don't understand. That makes TONS of sense doesn't it? Note the sarcasm...just in case it wasn't evident here Hack.


At this point I am not even reading what you say. It's just insults and lies.

Let me know when you want to admit to lying. I have a feeling it is going to eat right thru you.


----------



## icefalkon

LOL have a good day Hack.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> LOL have a good day Hack.


I am going to. And I hope that you do too, even after what you said.


----------



## icefalkon

I apologize for the comment about seeing you in the back of The Electrical Worker. That was wrong, callous and no matter what our differences in opinion...that was wrong. 

I apologize for that.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> I apologize for the comment about seeing you in the back of The Electrical Worker. That was wrong, callous and no matter what our differences in opinion...that was wrong.
> 
> I apologize for that.


Oh, you meant the death part????

That was mean!! If you keep comments like that up, I may never talk to you again 

I thought you meant the letters to the editor part (that's all I read anymore).


----------



## icefalkon

LOL touche'.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> LOL touche'.


Tooshie? 



I'm still not over what you said. It's gonna take some time to heal. We should talk privately about financial compensation.


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> Tooshie?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still not over what you said. It's gonna take some time to heal. We should talk privately about financial compensation.


LOL ok...I'll buy the coffee. But the donuts are out of the question.


----------



## HackWork

I still need someone to go with me to see the space shuttle since Vic is embarrassed to be seen with me 

Is that open yet?!?!


----------



## icefalkon

Yes, it opened on July 10th and is supposed to be a great exhibit.


----------



## icefalkon

http://www.space.com/21908-space-shuttle-enterprise-nyc-exhibit-reopens.html


----------



## icefalkon

Furlough:
http://www.ibew1837.org/category/news-categories/ibew-news
------------------------------------------------------------
L.U. 197 (em&i), BLOOMINGTON, IL — For most of 2011, the work situation in our local was very slow. Recently it has picked up as journeyman wiremen get back to work accepting referrals to the Mitsubishi plant in Normal, IL. It doesn't seem we will get into Book II, but all are welcome to check our Web site www.ibew197.org for updates. Thanks to those locals that have helped put our members to work.
Our local had a nice turnout for the McLean County Labor Day parade. As we marched through the west side of Bloomington passing out candy, we proudly represented our local and all labor organizations. In October a labor rally protest was held by the McLean County Building Trades at the newly opened Sonic drive-in. Thank you to members who participated. It is important to have strong showings at these events to let the businesses that bring in workers from other states for lower wages and benefits know that we have a voice in our community. Please do not patronize Sonic or other businesses on our Do Not Patronize list.
The membership recently voted to adopt language in our bylaws dealing with furlough. Thanks to all who attended the meeting — it shows brotherhood is strong in our local.
We wish all IBEW members health and prosperity in 2012. Remember to get involved in the local and stay involved!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


The IBEW Government Workers:


http://nhlabornews.com/2013/03/how_will_up_to_22_furlough_days/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CA Court Officers who are represented by the IBEW
Article 26
http://www.ibew465.org/court.html#_Toc197135191
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CA Again:
http://www.ibew1245.com/news-PublicSector/RT_Arbitration_Decision_4-15-11.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Illinois
http://www.ibew702.org/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=1409&cntnt01returnid=54
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's more...

357 Nevada...and I'm waiting to hear from a friend in LU6 for other information.

This is from just 3 pages using Bing. It's more common than you might think. Maybe not talked about, but it's not unheard of. We here in LU3 have been the long time proponents of it and for all it's faults, it keeps the wheels turning and gives every man a shot at earning a living. Everyone who's laid off for X amount of time, who is "Basic" goes back to his shop after the furlough is finished and keeps on working.


----------



## 360max

icefalkon those furloughs are for cost reductions, they keep the people working full time, a lot different than what local 3 furloughs are


----------



## HackWork

I'll look into this when I have more ambition. If this is true I will be bringing this up at our next meeting.


----------



## icefalkon

Either way 360. Our Work Share Program "started" as just taking regular furloughs. It has evolved. The point is that other furloughs are being condoned and are out there. What you said is exactly the point of what our furloughs do...they keep "everyone" working. I asked my grandfather what the first furlough's time length was. He said, I "think" it was a week. He's 87 so it's hard to remember 30+ years back. 

But still...if ANY amount of time, is given up by ANY member...so that other members can work...that's a furlough. Our program didn't just magically appear. It evolved.

Now if we have 10% unemployment for 2 consecutive months and THEN 25% in the third month...then and only then do we incorporate the Work Share Plan. Because otherwise...the natural give and take of hiring and laying off maintains itself. When you have Mega Contractors...like Comstock, 5 Star, Forest, Zwicker...each shop having well over 400 men each...decide...OK, time to clean house...and lay off 200-300 men at a time...

That sends a shock wave ripple through the whole system. Say you got laid off from a job and you happen to be down there the same day as 5 Star's layoff. You just went from maybe...a 6 week wait for a job to 36 week wait for a job. Just because of a roll of the dice. Imagine...and this has happened...Forest lays off 300 last week (it happened), 5 Star lays off only 150 (because a call was made to please hang onto 1/2 your intended amount for another week...bury them somewhere until we process the first batch...again...happened), and a contractor like B&G (who literally have no real Basic Work Force...they hire hundreds of men as needed for their project, and then at the end of the job lay off every single person and hire new men for the next job...happens all the time) lays off 50, 75, and 25 from 3 respective jobs.

Holy crap..we just went from say...400 men out of work...with a 6 week wait for a job....to 1000 on the bench...IN ONE DAY and the wait for a job is now 36 weeks. We take into account how much you worked over a two year period, what kind of layoff you received, and what your track record is with contractors. THAT is how you are slotted into the list. 

So..say you were at Forest for the last 20yrs...never been laid off. Compared to the poor guy who's wife has cancer so he hasn't been able to hold down anything steady because of Dr's visits...

The guy who's had more time laid off will be "higher" on the list and go out to a new job quicker than the guy who made a home for himself. I don't necessarily have a problem with that...until we get into the grey area of the guy who is a crappy electrician who can't hold down a job because frankly...he sucks. 

THEN I have a problem with keeping a good productive electrician home when this guy is given another chance. I don't like that at all. 

So is it fair...mostly...is it perfect...no...does it keep men rotating off the bench so no one looses their homes...yes. I have friends who are good electricians who were out for a year...not problem children, just by products of shops treating us all like inanimate objects. If the tool gets sticky...throw it out...whereas 20yrs ago...you would have added oil to the tool and it would maintain production and be an asset in your Klien bag. 

Now...contractors simply don't care...so you have to be at the top of your game...or you just might end up on the bottom of that work list...


----------



## 360max

icefalkon said:


> Either way 360. Our Work Share Program "started" as just taking regular furloughs. It has evolved. The point is that other furloughs are being condoned and are out there. What you said is exactly the point of what our furloughs do...they keep "everyone" working. I asked my grandfather what the first furlough's time length was. He said, I "think" it was a week. He's 87 so it's hard to remember 30+ years back.
> 
> But still...if ANY amount of time, is given up by ANY member...so that other members can work...that's a furlough. Our program didn't just magically appear. It evolved.
> 
> Now if we have 10% unemployment for 2 consecutive months and THEN 25% in the third month...then and only then do we incorporate the Work Share Plan. Because otherwise...the natural give and take of hiring and laying off maintains itself. When you have Mega Contractors...like Comstock, 5 Star, Forest, Zwicker...each shop having well over 400 men each...decide...OK, time to clean house...and lay off 200-300 men at a time...
> 
> That sends a shock wave ripple through the whole system. Say you got laid off from a job and you happen to be down there the same day as 5 Star's layoff. You just went from maybe...a 6 week wait for a job to 36 week wait for a job. Just because of a roll of the dice. Imagine...and this has happened...Forest lays off 300 last week (it happened), 5 Star lays off only 150 (because a call was made to please hang onto 1/2 your intended amount for another week...bury them somewhere until we process the first batch...again...happened), and a contractor like B&G (who literally have no real Basic Work Force...they hire hundreds of men as needed for their project, and then at the end of the job lay off every single person and hire new men for the next job...happens all the time) lays off 50, 75, and 25 from 3 respective jobs.
> 
> Holy crap..we just went from say...400 men out of work...with a 6 week wait for a job....to 1000 on the bench...IN ONE DAY and the wait for a job is now 36 weeks. We take into account how much you worked over a two year period, what kind of layoff you received, and what your track record is with contractors. THAT is how you are slotted into the list.
> 
> So..say you were at Forest for the last 20yrs...never been laid off. Compared to the poor guy who's wife has cancer so he hasn't been able to hold down anything steady because of Dr's visits...
> 
> The guy who's had more time laid off will be "higher" on the list and go out to a new job quicker than the guy who made a home for himself. I don't necessarily have a problem with that...until we get into the grey area of the guy who is a crappy electrician who can't hold down a job because frankly...he sucks.
> 
> THEN I have a problem with keeping a good productive electrician home when this guy is given another chance. I don't like that at all.
> 
> So is it fair...mostly...is it perfect...no...does it keep men rotating off the bench so no one looses their homes...yes. I have friends who are good electricians who were out for a year...not problem children, just by products of shops treating us all like inanimate objects. If the tool gets sticky...throw it out...whereas 20yrs ago...you would have added oil to the tool and it would maintain production and be an asset in your Klien bag.
> 
> Now...contractors simply don't care...so you have to be at the top of your game...or you just might end up on the bottom of that work list...


well stated ice

, I still think the IO should initiate some type of furlough system for the entire union, even if it starts out with using percentage of members laid off vs working. Say 15% of local is laid off, loCAL must institute furlough. Unions are great though!!!


----------



## icefalkon

360max said:


> well stated ice
> 
> , I still think the IO should initiate some type of furlough system for the entire union, even if it starts out with using percentage of members laid off vs working. Say 15% of local is laid off, loCAL must institute furlough. Unions are great though!!!


Thank you Brother. I agree 100%...the IO "should" address this issue and at the very least make it an available option for every local. 

We recently had a delegation from the UK and Poland come to us for a week to learn how we do things. Last year we incorporated the Apprentice Swap Program and sent one of ours over there and took one of theirs. It worked out SO well that this year Australia's union has signed on...not just with LU3 but with 2 other locals as well! We're sending 3 and taking 6...( 3 from each country ). 

Frankly, I think that's one of the coolest things ever. I owe Frank from on here a couple of shirts as a matter of fact that I have got to send out to him Down Under. It's winter down there now...so I guess a sweatshirt is in order! LOL


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> Thank you Brother. I agree 100%...the IO "should" address this issue and at the very least make it an available option for every local.
> 
> We recently had a delegation from the UK and Poland come to us for a week to learn how we do things. Last year we incorporated the Apprentice Swap Program and sent one of ours over there and took one of theirs. It worked out SO well that this year Australia's union has signed on...not just with LU3 but with 2 other locals as well! We're sending 3 and taking 6...( 3 from each country ).
> 
> Frankly, I think that's one of the coolest things ever. I owe Frank from on here a couple of shirts as a matter of fact that I have got to send out to him Down Under. It's winter down there now...so I guess a sweatshirt is in order! LOL


Ice, your so naive!! I can actually see why, now, so many non-union electricians state that the IBEW is a cult. You rant and rave about utter nonsense on how this union is so great. 
Please explain how furlough works??
I have been laid off for the entire year of 2013
I worked 6ms in 2012
2011 " 0 "
2010 " 4 ms"
2009 3ms
2008 4-5
2007, prior to the election in November I worked for a small contractor for 5yrs and prior to that full employment. 

Tell all your business reps in local 3.


----------



## icefalkon

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Ice, your so naive!! I can actually see why, now, so many non-union electricians state that the IBEW is a cult. You rant and rave about utter nonsense on how this union is so great.
> Please explain how furlough works??
> I have been laid off for the entire year of 2013
> I worked 6ms in 2012
> 2011 " 0 "
> 2010 " 4 ms"
> 2009 3ms
> 2008 4-5
> 2007, prior to the election in November I worked for a small contractor for 5yrs and prior to that full employment.
> 
> Tell all your business reps in local 3.


Boy Sal...I'll throw what has been thrown at ME right back at YOU.

You come on here crying and insult ME about a union that my family has been members of for more than 100 years and then end it with "Tell all your business reps in Local 3"?

How about THIS...why don't *YOU *call Paul Ryan...who is *YOUR *Business Rep and tell him that you've worked so little?? How about two words we teach Apprentices in LU3...

*Personal Responsibility.* 

You've been out 7 months of 2013...ok...why aren't you out with all the other men working on asbestos abatement? You call ME naive? LOL Brother...I know EXACTLY how this system works...you stay *EMPLOYED *by being *EMPLOYABLE*.

How about that? Why is this union so GREAT? Because you...should you have the desire and drive to WANT to be employed....*CAN BE EMPLOYED* if you make sure you have the skills contractors need.

So go call the hall and take:

*Restricted Asbestos Handler* and you will go out immediately as there is an extreme shortage of men with that license. I mean EXTREME. 

Then go out and sign up for *High Voltage Splicing*

Then go out and sign up for *Track Safety*

Then go out and take the *Supervision Course*.

Then go and take the* EVITP Course*, *High Rise Residential* (which will ALSO get you sent out faster), and *Event Lighting* (which will get you overtime hits in every Stadium to keep your medical going).

Then go out and get your *Westchester Master Electrician License*...on the books it means nothing to LU3...but to a contractor it means you know what the hell you're doing. AND the test is easy as hell compared to the rest of the country.

How about this..._*take the f*cking CT Journeyman License and you can work in CT!* _

Have you done *any *of the above???? Because you know WHAT Sal??? If I was in your shoes, I'd be calling every day for a job ticket and taking every damn course available to try and secure myself a job...to make myself more desirable to the contractors. Your trade is exactly that...YOUR trade. No one is responsible for making you more employable but you.

Of the crew I'm currently running 40 of 52 were out for almost a full year. Of the 40, more than 30 took every single class they could get into while they were out of work and were sent out on Weekend Warrior hits. That's only this current project I'm running...Croton on Hudson had an even BIGGER number of men who were out for an extreme amount of time. 

Have you never heard of these courses Sal? Strange...because in my 27yrs of being in the LU3, and knowing guys from Westchester/Fairfield/White Plains...they've taken these courses. I'm only talking maybe 10 or 15 guys....but still.

You think you've been dealt a bad hand...well change your cards. Make yourself...read carefully Brother..*make YOURSELF more employable*...*TAKE CLASSES*. They are free, they don't cost you any money except gas...and get your ass down here or to YOUR hall for these. 

BTW...the amount of time you worked in the past few years doesn't make you any more special than the *THOUSANDS *that were laid off here in NYC during those years. Not hundreds Sal...THOUSANDS. I don't know why you weren't kept by any contractor since 2007, but after THAT much time out, you would think that an assessment is in order. What's going on? Why hasn't one contractor wanted to hang onto you? 

When did Local 3 absorb you guys? What year? I don't know the answer to that...you should be able to tell me. 

Because Sal...the *REASON *LU3 took over Westchester/White Plains/Fairfield was because of gross mismanagement. The guys I know who are up there are way happier that they've been taken into LU3.

Now..how does furlough work? I've explained it in this thread numerous times...in detail. Read it carefully.

You have been out 7 months of this year, prior to that you were given a 6 month ticket, prior to that was the horrible recession where almost 50% of men were out of work down here in NYC! During that horrible time men lost their wives, houses, apartments, etc. 

But you know what Sal....?

1. You were able to draw from the Emergency Fund for your mortgage, rent, etc.

2. You were able to go to the DOCTOR because you had medical for 6 months after being laid off. You guys up in LU3 North have also reaped the rewards of getting our medical, dental, and optical...now you keep your medical for over a f*cking YEAR while sitting waiting for a job.

WHILE ON UNEMPLOYMENT!!

So Sal..I've just given you a blueprint of how to improve your chances at getting/keeping a job. 

*Go do something about it*. 

Only YOU can improve your chances of landing with a good contractor.

Lets see...for every 500 men working there is 1 or 2 that don't like the system and complain about it...
YET they'll use the bennies, they'll happily tap their funds dry, they'll remain jaded and full of hate, piss and vinegar even WHEN they're employed. 

Not for nothing...times were SO bad from 2009 - 2011 that not one but three LU3 Officers that I know personally were out for over a year. You weren't alone, you weren't singled out, it was a horrible time in labor's history.

You say I rant utter nonsense about how great this is...really Sal? Really? 

Well then...Brother...let me give you this...had you paid any attention to what was going on in your trade, in your union, perhaps...just perhaps you wouldn't be OUT SO LONG! I rant about how great the IBEW is...because frankly it is great. You...yeah YOU have taken advantage of a system...think that the union OWES you something don't you? Sure seems that way to me Sal. 

Where ELSE are you going to get your medical insurance for over a year while unemployed? Where else are you going to be able to take dozens of classes that will help you score a job for FREE? Where else are you going to make the money you make now? Where else are you going to have the chance to go out for special event work at concerts, stadium events, etc...all to keep your medical going even more than a year? So please...please...check your own bullsh*t and do a reality check. You are in the minority of those in Westchester not working at this time. As I stated earlier in this thread...YOUR Business Rep gives a 20 minute report on LU3 North every single month...have you ever heard it? He tells us EXACTLY how many men up by you are out of work...every month. YOU have a furlough system in place to keep men rotating on and off the bench up there JUST as we do down here. 

But please save your insults about how naive *"I"* am Sal...I've been doing this for almost 3 decades...I know how the system works. 

If you've been in since 1999...you should know also. 

Good luck. Call Paul Ryan.


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> Boy Sal...I'll throw what has been thrown at ME right back at YOU.
> 
> You come on here crying and insult ME about a union that my family has been members of for more than 100 years and then end it with "Tell all your business reps in Local 3"?
> 
> How about THIS...why don't YOU call Paul Ryan...who is YOUR Business Rep and tell him that you've worked so little?? How about two words we teach Apprentices in LU3...
> 
> Personal Responsibility.
> 
> You've been out 7 months of 2013...ok...why aren't you out with all the other men working on asbestos abatement? You call ME naive? LOL Brother...I know EXACTLY how this system works...you stay EMPLOYED by being EMPLOYABLE.
> 
> How about that? Why is this union so GREAT? Because you...should you have the desire and drive to WANT to be employed....CAN BE EMPLOYED if you make sure you have the skills contractors need.
> 
> So go call the hall and take:
> 
> Restricted Asbestos Handler and you will go out immediately as there is an extreme shortage of men with that license. I mean EXTREME.
> 
> Then go out and sign up for High Voltage Splicing
> 
> Then go out and sign up for Track Safety
> 
> Then go out and take the Supervision Course.
> 
> Then go and take the EVITP Course, High Rise Residential (which will ALSO get you sent out faster), and Event Lighting (which will get you overtime hits in every Stadium to keep your medical going).
> 
> Then go out and get your Westchester Master Electrician License...on the books it means nothing to LU3...but to a contractor it means you know what the hell you're doing. AND the test is easy as hell compared to the rest of the country.
> 
> How about this...take the f*cking CT Journeyman License and you can work in CT!
> 
> Have you done any of the above???? Because you know WHAT Sal??? If I was in your shoes, I'd be calling every day for a job ticket and taking every damn course available to try and secure myself a job...to make myself more desirable to the contractors. Your trade is exactly that...YOUR trade. No one is responsible for making you more employable but you.
> 
> Of the crew I'm currently running 40 of 52 were out for almost a full year. Of the 40, more than 30 took every single class they could get into while they were out of work and were sent out on Weekend Warrior hits. That's only this current project I'm running...Croton on Hudson had an even BIGGER number of men who were out for an extreme amount of time.
> 
> Have you never heard of these courses Sal? Strange...because in my 27yrs of being in the LU3, and knowing guys from Westchester/Fairfield/White Plains...they've taken these courses. I'm only talking maybe 10 or 15 guys....but still.
> 
> You think you've been dealt a bad hand...well change your cards. Make yourself...read carefully Brother..make YOURSELF more employable...TAKE CLASSES. They are free, they don't cost you any money except gas...and get your ass down here or to YOUR hall for these.
> 
> BTW...the amount of time you worked in the past few years doesn't make you any more special than the THOUSANDS that were laid off here in NYC during those years. Not hundreds Sal...THOUSANDS. I don't know why you weren't kept by any contractor since 2007, but after THAT much time out, you would think that an assessment is in order. What's going on? Why hasn't one contractor wanted to hang onto you?
> 
> When did Local 3 absorb you guys? What year? I don't know the answer to that...you should be able to tell me.
> 
> Because Sal...the REASON LU3 took over Westchester/White Plains/Fairfield was because of gross mismanagement. The guys I know who are up there are way happier that they've been taken into LU3.
> 
> Now..how does furlough work? I've explained it in this thread numerous times...in detail. Read it carefully.
> 
> You have been out 7 months of this year, prior to that you were given a 6 month ticket, prior to that was the horrible recession where almost 50% of men were out of work down here in NYC! During that horrible time men lost their wives, houses, apartments, etc.
> 
> But you know what Sal....?
> 
> 1. You were able to draw from the Emergency Fund for your mortgage, rent, etc.
> 
> 2. You were able to go to the DOCTOR because you had medical for 6 months after being laid off. You guys up in LU3 North have also reaped the rewards of getting our medical, dental, and optical...now you keep your medical for over a f*cking YEAR while sitting waiting for a job.
> 
> WHILE ON UNEMPLOYMENT!!
> 
> So Sal..I've just given you a blueprint of how to improve your chances at getting/keeping a job.
> 
> Go do something about it.
> 
> Only YOU can improve your chances of landing with a good contractor.
> 
> Lets see...for every 500 men working there is 1 or 2 that don't like the system and complain about it...
> YET they'll use the bennies, they'll happily tap their funds dry, they'll remain jaded and full of hate, piss and vinegar even WHEN they're employed.
> 
> Not for nothing...times were SO bad from 2009 - 2011 that not one but three LU3 Officers that I know personally were out for over a year. You weren't alone, you weren't singled out, it was a horrible time in labor's history.
> 
> You say I rant utter nonsense about how great this is...really Sal? Really?
> 
> Well then...Brother...let me give you this...had you paid any attention to what was going on in your trade, in your union, perhaps...just perhaps you wouldn't be OUT SO LONG! I rant about how great the IBEW is...because frankly it is great. You...yeah YOU have taken advantage of a system...think that the union OWES you something don't you? Sure seems that way to me Sal.
> 
> Where ELSE are you going to get your medical insurance for over a year while unemployed? Where else are you going to be able to take dozens of classes that will help you score a job for FREE? Where else are you going to make the money you make now? Where else are you going to have the chance to go out for special event work at concerts, stadium events, etc...all to keep your medical going even more than a year? So please...please...check your own bullsh*t and do a reality check. You are in the minority of those in Westchester not working at this time. As I stated earlier in this thread...YOUR Business Rep gives a 20 minute report on LU3 North every single month...have you ever heard it? He tells us EXACTLY how many men up by you are out of work...every month. YOU have a furlough system in place to keep men rotating on and off the bench up there JUST as we do down here.
> 
> But please save your insults about how naive "I" am Sal...I've been doing this for almost 3 decades...I know how the system works.
> 
> If you've been in since 1999...you should know also.
> 
> Good luck. Call Paul Ryan.


Ice: 
I have two master electrician licenses under my belt as of right now and going for three and please that don't me much up here!!

All these bull**** certificates that you speak can and can work against you and I really don't feel that I should get certificates for certain safety requirements that are the responsibility of the 

We have not implemented the 26 wk work ticket, so, I don't think you know what cards your dealing with but, they have to many jokers in the pack. 

Money out of my funds!! To pay for my mortgage?! Stop bragging about a system that allows you to take "draws" against money you have set aside for retirement. Money that was contributed to your fund by the contractor. Which then you get penalized in taxes, which then of course you can write off against your gross expenditures. That well will remain full at this point!! 

Medical Insurance: do you really think you understand the rightful duties of the union. Your entitled to insurance because your a shareholder within the union. Monies paid out to the union for all their capital invested in, stocks, bonds, real estate income, most of these net income needs to be disbursed to offset capital gains so they are obligated to pay for medical and use it as a wrote off. You really think you have the unions number??

Please, their is so much favoritism, starting with you and your family who's been in for a hundred yrs. That's admirable and respectful of you and your family but, please don't insult my intelligence. 

I know more guys that have similar stories like you that are useless with the tools, consume drugs and alcohol and still manage to secure a job, simply to get their useless asses out their to cause havoc for the contractor.


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> Boy Sal...I'll throw what has been thrown at ME right back at YOU.
> 
> You come on here crying and insult ME about a union that my family has been members of for more than 100 years and then end it with "Tell all your business reps in Local 3"?
> 
> How about THIS...why don't YOU call Paul Ryan...who is YOUR Business Rep and tell him that you've worked so little?? How about two words we teach Apprentices in LU3...
> 
> Personal Responsibility.
> 
> You've been out 7 months of 2013...ok...why aren't you out with all the other men working on asbestos abatement? You call ME naive? LOL Brother...I know EXACTLY how this system works...you stay EMPLOYED by being EMPLOYABLE.
> 
> How about that? Why is this union so GREAT? Because you...should you have the desire and drive to WANT to be employed....CAN BE EMPLOYED if you make sure you have the skills contractors need.
> 
> So go call the hall and take:
> 
> Restricted Asbestos Handler and you will go out immediately as there is an extreme shortage of men with that license. I mean EXTREME.
> 
> Then go out and sign up for High Voltage Splicing
> 
> Then go out and sign up for Track Safety
> 
> Then go out and take the Supervision Course.
> 
> Then go and take the EVITP Course, High Rise Residential (which will ALSO get you sent out faster), and Event Lighting (which will get you overtime hits in every Stadium to keep your medical going).
> 
> Then go out and get your Westchester Master Electrician License...on the books it means nothing to LU3...but to a contractor it means you know what the hell you're doing. AND the test is easy as hell compared to the rest of the country.
> 
> How about this...take the f*cking CT Journeyman License and you can work in CT!
> 
> Have you done any of the above???? Because you know WHAT Sal??? If I was in your shoes, I'd be calling every day for a job ticket and taking every damn course available to try and secure myself a job...to make myself more desirable to the contractors. Your trade is exactly that...YOUR trade. No one is responsible for making you more employable but you.
> 
> Of the crew I'm currently running 40 of 52 were out for almost a full year. Of the 40, more than 30 took every single class they could get into while they were out of work and were sent out on Weekend Warrior hits. That's only this current project I'm running...Croton on Hudson had an even BIGGER number of men who were out for an extreme amount of time.
> 
> Have you never heard of these courses Sal? Strange...because in my 27yrs of being in the LU3, and knowing guys from Westchester/Fairfield/White Plains...they've taken these courses. I'm only talking maybe 10 or 15 guys....but still.
> 
> You think you've been dealt a bad hand...well change your cards. Make yourself...read carefully Brother..make YOURSELF more employable...TAKE CLASSES. They are free, they don't cost you any money except gas...and get your ass down here or to YOUR hall for these.
> 
> BTW...the amount of time you worked in the past few years doesn't make you any more special than the THOUSANDS that were laid off here in NYC during those years. Not hundreds Sal...THOUSANDS. I don't know why you weren't kept by any contractor since 2007, but after THAT much time out, you would think that an assessment is in order. What's going on? Why hasn't one contractor wanted to hang onto you?
> 
> When did Local 3 absorb you guys? What year? I don't know the answer to that...you should be able to tell me.
> 
> Because Sal...the REASON LU3 took over Westchester/White Plains/Fairfield was because of gross mismanagement. The guys I know who are up there are way happier that they've been taken into LU3.
> 
> Now..how does furlough work? I've explained it in this thread numerous times...in detail. Read it carefully.
> 
> You have been out 7 months of this year, prior to that you were given a 6 month ticket, prior to that was the horrible recession where almost 50% of men were out of work down here in NYC! During that horrible time men lost their wives, houses, apartments, etc.
> 
> But you know what Sal....?
> 
> 1. You were able to draw from the Emergency Fund for your mortgage, rent, etc.
> 
> 2. You were able to go to the DOCTOR because you had medical for 6 months after being laid off. You guys up in LU3 North have also reaped the rewards of getting our medical, dental, and optical...now you keep your medical for over a f*cking YEAR while sitting waiting for a job.
> 
> WHILE ON UNEMPLOYMENT!!
> 
> So Sal..I've just given you a blueprint of how to improve your chances at getting/keeping a job.
> 
> Go do something about it.
> 
> Only YOU can improve your chances of landing with a good contractor.
> 
> Lets see...for every 500 men working there is 1 or 2 that don't like the system and complain about it...
> YET they'll use the bennies, they'll happily tap their funds dry, they'll remain jaded and full of hate, piss and vinegar even WHEN they're employed.
> 
> Not for nothing...times were SO bad from 2009 - 2011 that not one but three LU3 Officers that I know personally were out for over a year. You weren't alone, you weren't singled out, it was a horrible time in labor's history.
> 
> You say I rant utter nonsense about how great this is...really Sal? Really?
> 
> Well then...Brother...let me give you this...had you paid any attention to what was going on in your trade, in your union, perhaps...just perhaps you wouldn't be OUT SO LONG! I rant about how great the IBEW is...because frankly it is great. You...yeah YOU have taken advantage of a system...think that the union OWES you something don't you? Sure seems that way to me Sal.
> 
> Where ELSE are you going to get your medical insurance for over a year while unemployed? Where else are you going to be able to take dozens of classes that will help you score a job for FREE? Where else are you going to make the money you make now? Where else are you going to have the chance to go out for special event work at concerts, stadium events, etc...all to keep your medical going even more than a year? So please...please...check your own bullsh*t and do a reality check. You are in the minority of those in Westchester not working at this time. As I stated earlier in this thread...YOUR Business Rep gives a 20 minute report on LU3 North every single month...have you ever heard it? He tells us EXACTLY how many men up by you are out of work...every month. YOU have a furlough system in place to keep men rotating on and off the bench up there JUST as we do down here.
> 
> But please save your insults about how naive "I" am Sal...I've been doing this for almost 3 decades...I know how the system works.
> 
> If you've been in since 1999...you should know also.
> 
> Good luck. Call Paul Ryan.


Oh! One more question if you consider this local the greatest in the nation and you claim not to be naive, you stated that our local was taken over by LU 3 south for mismanagement then answer this question. 
When Mcloughin was indicted on criminal charges of labor charges for taking bribe money, favors from other contractors for his influence on certain large scale jobs, why is that our former business mngr Mr. Van Arsdale resigned immediately their after..what was the real reason he resigned?? Humor me??


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon, without trying to get into another long debate, I must say that all your earlier postings about the Furlough system makes it sound like all the guys are getting 6 months of work per year, every year and have full benefits all year.


----------



## Salvatoreg02

HackWork said:


> icefalkon, without trying to get into another long debate, I must say that all your earlier postings about the Furlough system makes it sound like all the guys are getting 6 months of work per year, every year and have full benefits all year.


Hack it's not true.. This furlough system doesn't work. That's why local 3 north hasn't Implemented it. In a perfect world it would work. But, he rants and raves about how you should be getting certified in specific areas of the trade. The reason being behind that is that there is a loophole in the system. Why you getting a specific certificate in a required for the desired certification needed by the general contractor, it allows the business rep to negotiate with the general contractor to To allow these individuals to jump the list. Regardless, of how much time you spent out of work. By doing this it puts you in a position where you could continue to work for several Thanks, months and possibly years old dependent upon the scale of the project. By gaining this certificates in the event you're called upon and your medical benefits are Are running out, Bullhole will send you out based on the certificate that you have and you only need to work a minimum of four weeks to have your medical reinstated. So if you have spent more than 40 weeks home just to say, they'll send you out on this ticket you regain your medical but then when you get laid off after only working 40 days or more your sent back to the hall at the end of the list.


----------



## icefalkon

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Hack it's not true.. This furlough system doesn't work. That's why local 3 north hasn't Implemented it. In a perfect world it would work. But, he rants and raves about how you should be getting certified in specific areas of the trade. The reason being behind that is that there is a loophole in the system. Why you getting a specific certificate in a required for the desired certification needed by the general contractor, it allows the business rep to negotiate with the general contractor to To allow these individuals to jump the list. Regardless, of how much time you spent out of work. By doing this it puts you in a position where you could continue to work for several Thanks, months and possibly years old dependent upon the scale of the project. By gaining this certificates in the event you're called upon and your medical benefits are Are running out, Bullhole will send you out based on the certificate that you have and you only need to work a minimum of four weeks to have your medical reinstated. So if you have spent more than 40 weeks home just to say, they'll send you out on this ticket you regain your medical but then when you get laid off after only working 40 days or more your sent back to the hall at the end of the list.


LOL you are completely and utterly full of sh*t. You "know" guys...really Sal? I know thousands also who have been on MY jobs over the last two and half decades that are working just fine. Some these "guys" are even pulling in $80K a year working 6 months. 

Lets address your skewed version of what goes on, because Sal...it absolutely is skewed. You think you've knocked holes in the system that has put more men to work over the last 40+ years with a few sentences? Because poor little Sal can't hold down a job? Give it a break. You either get certified or you don't. I don't care. Your ridiculous comment about safety certs being the responsibility of who? The GC? 

YOU are required to be OSHA 10 Certified, YOU are required to be TRACK CERTIFIED, and as of 2014 Supervision is going to be required to be OSHA 30 Certified. You just answered a question I didn't ask...you're one of the wonderful problem children from up north. The give away was your problem with certs. I've heard about the "few" up there who won't get certified for anything. 

Good job! You've made a name for yourself. Hmmm wonder why you aren't working?

*The reason being behind that is that there is a loophole in the system. Why you getting a specific certificate in a required for the desired certification needed by the general contractor, it allows the business rep to negotiate with the general contractor to To allow these individuals to jump the list.*

This is called Special Skills...and guess what Sal...it's a necessity in today's world. If YOU had any special skills...you would be working. If YOU have 2 ME licenses...then you SHOULD be working. No more to say about that. What...you have Westchester...and CT? Both open book tests...right. Hard...

Anyway, I digress. The Business Rep isn't negotiating so that he can have guys "jump the list"...where the hell does that come from? He is negotiating with the GC to get the WORK For our men. Then...guess what happens next Sal..you have to provide the specific manpower for that. What do YOU know about High Voltage Splicing? Have you ever done it? What do you know about working on the Third Rail of the NYC Transit System? For Christs sake, this isn't rocket science, this is...better yourself for a better job!! But nooooo to your archaic system of thinking...no one should be able to do that. Well then Sal...we just keep losing market share because Sal from White Plains feels we shouldn't specialize anyone anymore. Sorry guys...you're going to be just as f*cked as good ole Sal is.

Lets talk about your bullsh*t comment about TVA and his retiring. Firstly, you have no f*cking idea what went down, nor what happened to BM. I know exactly what happened, I was there when his papers were sent to the IO. As for TVA retiring...that had nothing to do with BM. At all. Now you're going to start calling names and sh*t like that...and saying boo hooo that's a lie...because YOU know better...but without even a smirk on my end...you are wrong. TVA retired for another reason and it's amazing he is still alive to this day.

Onward...it is a FACT that YOUR local up there was taken over because of Mismanagement of Funds. Look it up. Go to your hall and ask..or better yet...Google where 158-11 IS and come down and ask. We'll be happy to explain why you are now part of LU3. Oh btw...you are now getting LU3 benefits, your contract is now overseen by LU3 and the JIB. Which is grossly better than what you had before. 

*Medical Insurance: do you really think you understand the rightful duties of the union. Your entitled to insurance because your a shareholder within the union. Monies paid out to the union for all their capital invested in, stocks, bonds, real estate income, most of these net income needs to be disbursed to offset capital gains so they are obligated to pay for medical and use it as a wrote off. You really think you have the unions number??*

I know the duties of the union perfectly and to the letter Sal...do YOU? Where the hell do you get this nonsense that you are a SHAREHOLDER in the union? HOLY CHRIST! LOL You have the balls to call ME naive...and you put some nonsense like that out? No wonder you have tons of friends up there rooting for you. How are your buddies on mylocal3.xxx doing Sal? Do you know how the system works...oh you THINK you know how it works..and believe me, if you did...they'd employ you directly. But the fact of the matter is, that you don't know how it works..you have no idea what the cost vs payout vs investment is. Local 3 North isn't worth anything at all. Now they have a vested interest in staying part of LU3...because of the collateral that LU3 North gets to share in. Yes, the $9 Billion Dollars that the JIB is worth. Because Sal..if you DID know all that you claim to know...you WOULD know...that LU3 is only worth $1M. You would also know WHY it's only worth $1M. 

So stop the bullsh*t that you have it all figured out and that the favoritism has been holding YOU...the little man down. That's a f*cked up old song and dance that hasn't been true since the 80's man. Grow up.

This local hasn't gotten me a job in 17yrs. I work because I make my contractor money. End of Story. There's no one down at home office calling MY boss telling him to keep me. Believe me, my boss would tell them to go f*ck themselves. He isn't a big fan of home office telling him how to run his business. He tolerates me teaching for the union because he hasn't failed an inspection in the entire time I've worked for him. I too have 3 ME's Sal, NYC, California, and Illinois. I find it hysterical that you have this mindset that the favoritism outweighs performance. That is ******ed Sal, simply ******ed. In this day and age the lawsuits would be staggering...STAGGERING if there was a shred of truth to that. But no...

Sal knows everything. Sal knows how to cry. Sal knows how the system has screwed him over.

Know what Sal? Here's the best damn thing I can say to you "Brother"...(dripping with sarcasm)...

You don't like it...you don't like how the system works....you don't want to continue your education, don't want to get certified in Safety, etc...

Leave.

Just retire and leave. 

Better yet...open your own shop and say goodbye. It's as easy as filing papers Sal.

Harry Van Arsdale used to say...if you're not helping the Industry grow...then you're in the way of progress. Step aside or get ran over. 

Easy as that.

Now onto your last sentences...

*I know more guys that have similar stories like you that are useless with the tools, consume drugs and alcohol and still manage to secure a job, simply to get their useless asses out their to cause havoc for the contractor.*

Let me ask you this...what do you know about "ME"...I don't drink or do drugs, but I DO get in TROUBLE for working with my tools with my men, and haven't had to "secure a job"...ever. General Foremen aren't "supposed" to jump in and help...I say bull**** to that. If my men need a f*cking hand, I help them. You throw commentary out like that on a forum and it makes me wonder what you say in person? You make a ridiculous statement and think everyone fits into YOUR version of reality. Good job there Sal.

To cause havok for the contractor? Really Sal...Really? Man...you really should come down to a union meeting every now and then. You really think that behavior would be condoned by home office in 2013? When Contractors are ready to sue over a STEWARD coming onto the job to talk to the men any time other than lunch? At a time when Superintendents no longer have to be members of the A Division...Contractors can name whoever they want...YOU think that will be tolerated by the Contractors? 

Bro...you are stuck in the 80's and need to get out there a bit more. Perhaps you've heard the saying, "Misery loves company" or "Negativity breeds Negativity"?

Whoever you're "talking to" has a really skewed way of looking at things. Because you know what Sal...we have had exactly 3 Business Managers since 1958. THREE.

Why? Because those 3 guys have managed to keep over TEN THOUSAND ELECTRICIANS working, have medical, and have great retirement plans...

However, you....*you*...Sal from White Plains...sees that as wrong, sees that as corrupt, sees that as evil. Listen to yourself...as you say to me...

What exactly would *YOU *do to change things Sal? If you have all these "skills" and "abilities" why haven't you put them to use? Why hasn't your Hall put you to use...teaching, organizing, anything?? Put your ideas down on paper, write a letter, have the balls to actually sign it, and mail it to the f*cking Business Manager! 

Squeaky wheel usually gets the grease...

Unless of course that squeaky wheel is flawed...

Put your ideas, complaints, etc down on paper, put down facts, not this supposition bullsh*t you've said on here, but REAL FACTS and mail the letter. 

Let the powers that be hear you out for f*cks sake. Maybe...just maybe...they'll actually listen. I know for a FACT that the BM reads every single letter mailed to him. 

But in closing...this has been great. I might post it on "yourlocal3.xxx" myself tonight! If you're not on there...which I'm SURE you are...sign up...it'll make for a great flame thread.

Take care Sal, I wish you the best in whatever you choose to pursue. Know this, I would give you just as much a chance working for me as I would ANYONE from the Hall. Every man starts with a score of 100...100 being the perfect journeyman electrician...and the score goes down from there. But everyone gets a chance to shine and share their skills and knowledge. 

I'm sorry you've gotten such a rough deal. I really am. Focusing on fixing it is the way to go, not become more bitter about it. Just my $.02. 

As I said before, you can always just leave if it's so bad. Sometimes...our way of life isn't for everyone. 

But just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it hasn't worked for thousands...yeah...thousands...not hundreds...but thousands of other journeymen. 

As I said to Hack...is it perfect, no...are there guys that ride the system...yes...have guys gotten the short end of the stick...yes. But we have 15000 people out there ON this system. If it was the failure YOU see it as...the membership would be down at home office with torches and pitchforks! It works for the majority. That's the easiest way I can say it.

Oh...and you don't have the Work Share Program up in White Plains because there is no one up there to MANAGE it Sal. That is the actual reason. 

Good night.


----------



## Salvatoreg02

icefalkon said:


> LOL you are completely and utterly full of sh*t. You "know" guys...really Sal? I know thousands also who have been on MY jobs over the last two and half decades that are working just fine. Some these "guys" are even pulling in $80K a year working 6 months.
> 
> Lets address your skewed version of what goes on, because Sal...it absolutely is skewed. You think you've knocked holes in the system that has put more men to work over the last 40+ years with a few sentences? Because poor little Sal can't hold down a job? Give it a break. You either get certified or you don't. I don't care. Your ridiculous comment about safety certs being the responsibility of who? The GC?
> 
> YOU are required to be OSHA 10 Certified, YOU are required to be TRACK CERTIFIED, and as of 2014 Supervision is going to be required to be OSHA 30 Certified. You just answered a question I didn't ask...you're one of the wonderful problem children from up north. The give away was your problem with certs. I've heard about the "few" up there who won't get certified for anything.
> 
> Good job! You've made a name for yourself. Hmmm wonder why you aren't working?
> 
> The reason being behind that is that there is a loophole in the system. Why you getting a specific certificate in a required for the desired certification needed by the general contractor, it allows the business rep to negotiate with the general contractor to To allow these individuals to jump the list.
> 
> This is called Special Skills...and guess what Sal...it's a necessity in today's world. If YOU had any special skills...you would be working. If YOU have 2 ME licenses...then you SHOULD be working. No more to say about that. What...you have Westchester...and CT? Both open book tests...right. Hard...
> 
> Anyway, I digress. The Business Rep isn't negotiating so that he can have guys "jump the list"...where the hell does that come from? He is negotiating with the GC to get the WORK For our men. Then...guess what happens next Sal..you have to provide the specific manpower for that. What do YOU know about High Voltage Splicing? Have you ever done it? What do you know about working on the Third Rail of the NYC Transit System? For Christs sake, this isn't rocket science, this is...better yourself for a better job!! But nooooo to your archaic system of thinking...no one should be able to do that. Well then Sal...we just keep losing market share because Sal from White Plains feels we shouldn't specialize anyone anymore. Sorry guys...you're going to be just as f*cked as good ole Sal is.
> 
> Lets talk about your bullsh*t comment about TVA and his retiring. Firstly, you have no f*cking idea what went down, nor what happened to BM. I know exactly what happened, I was there when his papers were sent to the IO. As for TVA retiring...that had nothing to do with BM. At all. Now you're going to start calling names and sh*t like that...and saying boo hooo that's a lie...because YOU know better...but without even a smirk on my end...you are wrong. TVA retired for another reason and it's amazing he is still alive to this day.
> 
> Onward...it is a FACT that YOUR local up there was taken over because of Mismanagement of Funds. Look it up. Go to your hall and ask..or better yet...Google where 158-11 IS and come down and ask. We'll be happy to explain why you are now part of LU3. Oh btw...you are now getting LU3 benefits, your contract is now overseen by LU3 and the JIB. Which is grossly better than what you had before.
> 
> Medical Insurance: do you really think you understand the rightful duties of the union. Your entitled to insurance because your a shareholder within the union. Monies paid out to the union for all their capital invested in, stocks, bonds, real estate income, most of these net income needs to be disbursed to offset capital gains so they are obligated to pay for medical and use it as a wrote off. You really think you have the unions number??
> 
> I know the duties of the union perfectly and to the letter Sal...do YOU? Where the hell do you get this nonsense that you are a SHAREHOLDER in the union? HOLY CHRIST! LOL You have the balls to call ME naive...and you put some nonsense like that out? No wonder you have tons of friends up there rooting for you. How are your buddies on mylocal3.xxx doing Sal? Do you know how the system works...oh you THINK you know how it works..and believe me, if you did...they'd employ you directly. But the fact of the matter is, that you don't know how it works..you have no idea what the cost vs payout vs investment is. Local 3 North isn't worth anything at all. Now they have a vested interest in staying part of LU3...because of the collateral that LU3 North gets to share in. Yes, the $9 Billion Dollars that the JIB is worth. Because Sal..if you DID know all that you claim to know...you WOULD know...that LU3 is only worth $1M. You would also know WHY it's only worth $1M.
> 
> So stop the bullsh*t that you have it all figured out and that the favoritism has been holding YOU...the little man down. That's a f*cked up old song and dance that hasn't been true since the 80's man. Grow up.
> 
> This local hasn't gotten me a job in 17yrs. I work because I make my contractor money. End of Story. There's no one down at home office calling MY boss telling him to keep me. Believe me, my boss would tell them to go f*ck themselves. He isn't a big fan of home office telling him how to run his business. He tolerates me teaching for the union because he hasn't failed an inspection in the entire time I've worked for him. I too have 3 ME's Sal, NYC, California, and Illinois. I find it hysterical that you have this mindset that the favoritism outweighs performance. That is ******ed Sal, simply ******ed. In this day and age the lawsuits would be staggering...STAGGERING if there was a shred of truth to that. But no...
> 
> Sal knows everything. Sal knows how to cry. Sal knows how the system has screwed him over.
> 
> Know what Sal? Here's the best damn thing I can say to you "Brother"...(dripping with sarcasm)...
> 
> You don't like it...you don't like how the system works....you don't want to continue your education, don't want to get certified in Safety, etc...
> 
> Leave.
> 
> Just retire and leave.
> 
> Better yet...open your own shop and say goodbye. It's as easy as filing papers Sal.
> 
> Harry Van Arsdale used to say...if you're not helping the Industry grow...then you're in the way of progress. Step aside or get ran over.
> 
> Easy as that.
> 
> Now onto your last sentences...
> 
> I know more guys that have similar stories like you that are useless with the tools, consume drugs and alcohol and still manage to secure a job, simply to get their useless asses out their to cause havoc for the contractor.
> 
> Let me ask you this...what do you know about "ME"...I don't drink or do drugs, but I DO get in TROUBLE for working with my tools with my men, and haven't had to "secure a job"...ever. General Foremen aren't "supposed" to jump in and help...I say bull**** to that. If my men need a f*cking hand, I help them. You throw commentary out like that on a forum and it makes me wonder what you say in person? You make a ridiculous statement and think everyone fits into YOUR version of reality. Good job there Sal.
> 
> To cause havok for the contractor? Really Sal...Really? Man...you really should come down to a union meeting every now and then. You really think that behavior would be condoned by home office in 2013? When Contractors are ready to sue over a STEWARD coming onto the job to talk to the men any time other than lunch? At a time when Superintendents no longer have to be members of the A Division...Contractors can name whoever they want...YOU think that will be tolerated by the Contractors?
> 
> Bro...you are stuck in the 80's and need to get out there a bit more. Perhaps you've heard the saying, "Misery loves company" or "Negativity breeds Negativity"?
> 
> Whoever you're "talking to" has a really skewed way of looking at things. Because you know what Sal...we have had exactly 3 Business Managers since 1958. THREE.
> 
> Why? Because those 3 guys have managed to keep over TEN THOUSAND ELECTRICIANS working, have medical, and have great retirement plans...
> 
> However, you....you...Sal from White Plains...sees that as wrong, sees that as corrupt, sees that as evil. Listen to yourself...as you say to me...
> 
> What exactly would YOU do to change things Sal? If you have all these "skills" and "abilities" why haven't you put them to use? Why hasn't your Hall put you to use...teaching, organizing, anything?? Put your ideas down on paper, write a letter, have the balls to actually sign it, and mail it to the f*cking Business Manager!
> 
> Squeaky wheel usually gets the grease...
> 
> Unless of course that squeaky wheel is flawed...
> 
> Put your ideas, complaints, etc down on paper, put down facts, not this supposition bullsh*t you've said on here, but REAL FACTS and mail the letter.
> 
> Let the powers that be hear you out for f*cks sake. Maybe...just maybe...they'll actually listen. I know for a FACT that the BM reads every single letter mailed to him.
> 
> But in closing...this has been great. I might post it on "yourlocal3.xxx" myself tonight! If you're not on there...which I'm SURE you are...sign up...it'll make for a great flame thread.
> 
> Take care Sal, I wish you the best in whatever you choose to pursue. Know this, I would give you just as much a chance working for me as I would ANYONE from the Hall. Every man starts with a score of 100...100 being the perfect journeyman electrician...and the score goes down from there. But everyone gets a chance to shine and share their skills and knowledge.
> 
> I'm sorry you've gotten such a rough deal. I really am. Focusing on fixing it is the way to go, not become more bitter about it. Just my $.02.
> 
> As I said before, you can always just leave if it's so bad. Sometimes...our way of life isn't for everyone.
> 
> But just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it hasn't worked for thousands...yeah...thousands...not hundreds...but thousands of other journeymen.
> 
> As I said to Hack...is it perfect, no...are there guys that ride the system...yes...have guys gotten the short end of the stick...yes. But we have 15000 people out there ON this system. If it was the failure YOU see it as...the membership would be down at home office with torches and pitchforks! It works for the majority. That's the easiest way I can say it.
> 
> Oh...and you don't have the Work Share Program up in White Plains because there is no one up there to MANAGE it Sal. That is the actual reason.
> 
> Good night.


You're right!!


----------



## icefalkon

HackWork said:


> icefalkon, without trying to get into another long debate, I must say that all your earlier postings about the Furlough system makes it sound like all the guys are getting 6 months of work per year, every year and have full benefits all year.


Hey Hack. 

By my earlier posts, yes. The Work Share Program allows each man to get a Job Ticket for 26 Weeks. After that point the contractor can lay the man off without question. Now think on this...if the guy is a good worker, takes initiative, etc...sometimes the contractor will ask the individual if he wants to become part of his Basic Work Force. He is now a regular employee of the contractor. After one full year of work, he is required to now participate in the Furlough Program. Note the One Full Year of work part. He gets to work for another 6 months before having to do any of the 10 week furlough. 

Now...take the guy that the contractor only kept for 6 months. He goes back to the hall, fills out a work skills form, hits the annuity department to request money from his annuity fund if he wishes and then goes home. Once home he fills out the NYC Unemployment Form on the website and that's it. He will be out of work for 6 months unless there is a big call for men, he has Special Skills" such as a NY State Restricted Asbestos Handler License, Asbestos Handler, Asbestos Supervisor, etc...you get what I mean...He may also be a NY State Certified Welder (which is in high demand as well), or could have IT Certifications, MCSE, CISCO CCIE, etc...or have skills in AutoCAD. These Special Skills are ALWAYS sought after by contractors. Having the appropriate license/certification will allow you to be pulled out of the list of men. It doesn't guarantee you a job, it gets you an INTERVIEW for a position that needs to be filled. The union would rather a contractor picks from US before getting someone in off the street. 

Now suppose you don't have any special skills, you're a regular guy...

Now here is where Mr. Sal has his information completely skewed because I guess he never left White Plains...but hear me out. Just about everywhere else on the planet...you need to work X amount of man hours to qualify for medical/dental insurance. 

But in LU3, if you work for 6 months, you have full medical for the next 6 months while you are out of work.

Back in 2010, LU3 passed a bylaw whereby each active working member contributed monies to a fund increasing your medical insurance to 39 weeks after becoming unemployed from working for 6 months. 

THEN in 2011 because the recession had many members out of work for up to a year, LU3 passed another bylaw INCREASING the time you are covered for medical insurance to 52 full weeks after working for 6 months. 

WE the working members contributed into this initially and now as of the 2013 Working Agreement, the Contractors are contributing into this fund.

So when I say where else do you get insurance for a YEAR after being unemployed and only working only 6 months...that's what I mean.

How someone, anyone, can bash on that is simply beyond me. Go pay COBRA and see what medical costs...

This always...ALWAYS comes from guys who bitch, moan, and cry how ****ed up the local has treated them. How they haven't been able to stay with a contractor since way back in 19XX. Give it a rest already with the conspiracy theory bullcrap. Fact of the matter is, if you're good at what you do, someone, somewhere, will keep you. Now especially. There is work everywhere. I don't know why Sal isn't working, except for the comments about not getting safety certifications. Because we have a ton of guys from LU3 North down here working on what we call Asbestos Fixture Duty.

Take the fixture down, change out the old PCB ballast, and put in an electronic ballast. These guys are making crazy overtime!! My friend is an Asbestos Supervisor for a crew of these workers and every time we talk on the phone he's at one school or another. Guess where the guys he's working with are from?? 

White Plains.

Seriously, all joking aside...there comes a time when you have to say...

Is it the system, or is it me? 

Because not for nothing, if the majority of men are dealing with 6 months on....6 months off...and many actually thrived on it. I am not kidding when I say I have had guys on my jobs that absolutely LOVE being 26 weekers. These aren't "related" guys, or "involved" guys...hell...I have to twist arms to get these guys to go to union meetings...these are REGULAR guys who LOVE working 6 months out of the year, spend time with their kids, have side gigs going, or whatever. 

So when I rant about how good it is...yeah...I think it rocks. It beats the HELL out of sitting on a bench for 62 weeks like the 25 Telephone Guys that are still alive and who haven't retired. 

Also, I found out today that if you look on the IO's website there is documentation about the IO condoning furloughs. I haven't looked yet...

I'm still at my job site.


----------



## icefalkon

Leaving work now...please hold off on the name calling until later tonight after dinner ok guys? LOL

Thanks and I hope everyone has a good night.


----------



## HackWork

I can't read all that right now.

In my local people have done the math and have said that with the active men right now and the hours worked, every man could work for 9 months out of the year.

Right now there are thousands of men who work solid, I was one of them for 15 years. Whether it be because I knew the right people, because I was a good worker, because I was in the right spot at the right time, whatever, I worked solid. Many other man have and continue to do so. On the flip side, there are other men who don't have the luxury. Sometimes it's because they are truly slugs, but most of the time it's just the luck of the draw. 

A lot of people have been talking about furloughing because if everyone could work for 9 months that would mean $75K, which is a damn nice living. That actually what we were set up to make, since this is seasonal work. Many people make $100K+ now and think that is the norm, but it's really not. If you made $100K in the envelope, that means you made another $60K in benefits. That's not too bad for 40 hours a week.

So 9 months would get you a nice living, full healthcare, a full pension credit, and even a decent amount into your annuity. 

That also means that you have 3 months off making $600/week cash from unemployment, or whatever else you could make doing other work.

I think most members would take that deal, other than the guys who are working with companies for many years and making lots of overtime. But they would change their mind once they got laid off...


----------



## icefalkon

You get $600/week for unemployment?

NY State maxes us out at $405/week which after taxes is a measly $389


----------



## icefalkon

I agree Hack...part of the problem is that kids today think differently. For one..they have this entitlement thing going on...which is bullsh*t, and for two they think that...oh...I'm "supposed" to make $100K...THIS is what being a union electrician is about. 

They don't realize that it's because times are good right now, it's the anomaly, not the norm.


----------



## HackWork

icefalkon said:


> You get $600/week for unemployment?
> 
> NY State maxes us out at $405/week which after taxes is a measly $389


It was $620 or so a week, it may be higher now.

Unemployment is taxed differently than normal income so you get to keep more of it.

I never had any witholding taken out of unemployment, I would always get some money back at the end of the year so that would offset the taxes I owed on the unemployment.


----------



## icefalkon

Still over $200 more a week than NY! That's great.


----------



## Tom31

Anybody got letter from local 3 after physical ??


----------



## compuradon

*Still waiting*



Tom31 said:


> Anybody got letter from local 3 after physical ??


Nope, haven't heard anything in over 2 weeks. How about you?


----------



## Tom31

compuradon said:


> Nope, haven't heard anything in over 2 weeks. How about you?


Nope


----------



## compuradon

*Still waiting*



Tom31 said:


> Anybody got letter from local 3 after physical ??





Tom31 said:


> Nope


Cool man, I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything.


----------



## Tom31

compuradon said:


> Cool man, I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything.


Thank you


----------



## compuradon

*No news is good news*



Tom31 said:


> Thank you


I called the apprenticeship department over at the hall today. I was told that a letter is sent out only if person has failed the physical, and that the physical takes a couple of weeks to process. What this essentially means is that "no new is good news"; in other words if we don't hear anything, it probably means we passed the physical.


----------



## BXSquish

You will get a letter to report for orientation.


----------



## Tom31

compuradon said:


> I called the apprenticeship department over at the hall today. I was told that a letter is sent out only if person has failed the physical, and that the physical takes a couple of weeks to process. What this essentially means is that "no new is good news"; in other words if we don't hear anything, it probably means we passed the physical.


Thank you


----------



## sopranocaponyc

BXSquish said:


> You will get a letter to report for orientation.


I got my letter today from Local 3 IBEW Apprentice program saying I got into the program and to send a reply back saying im still interested.


----------



## Tom31

sopranocaponyc said:


> I got my letter today saying I got into the program and to send a reply back saying im still interested.


But from why you got letter union 3 or college ?


----------



## sopranocaponyc

Tom31 said:


> But from why you got letter union 3 or college ?


 Local 3 IBEW Apprentice program


----------



## Tom31

sopranocaponyc said:


> Local 3 IBEW Apprentice program


Thank you so i have to wait my letter from union ok thank you, and when did you had your physical ?


----------



## tjy1004

Good for you capo


----------



## 360max

sopranocaponyc said:


> Local 3 IBEW Apprentice program


long wait but finally in, congrats sapranocaponyc!!!


----------



## BXSquish

Congrats Soprano!!!! I know it has been a long tedious wait but you did it.


----------



## sopranocaponyc

Now the ? is , is this for Sept or Jan.


----------



## compuradon

*Good stuff*



sopranocaponyc said:


> Now the ? is , is this for Sept or Jan.


Congrats capo! I took a physical in early July, still haven't heard anything, but over at the hall she mentioned Sept classes begin


----------



## sopranocaponyc

compuradon said:


> Congrats capo! I took a physical in early July, still haven't heard anything, but over at the hall she mentioned Sept classes begin


You shouldn't hear anything about the physical, the only letter you would get is if you failed the drug test. when did you get your letter saying you were accepted and when did you get your letter to report for the physical.


----------



## compuradon

*Letter/Physical*



sopranocaponyc said:


> You shouldn't hear anything about the physical, the only letter you would get is if you failed the drug test. when did you get your letter saying you were accepted and when did you get your letter to report for the physical.


Thanks for the info. I got a call and letter asking if I was still interested about back around Nov/Dec before getting a call then letter about the physical in May, and scheduled physical for July.


----------



## sopranocaponyc

compuradon said:


> Thanks for the info. I got a call and letter asking if I was still interested about back around Nov/Dec before getting a call then letter about the physical in May, and scheduled physical for July.


 
yeah I got that 1st letter in Nov, then 2nd letter saying I'm in on Saturday. how long after you sent your reply saying you were still interested in the program did you get a letter for the physical. I'm heading to the post office in a bit to mail via certified with return receipt.


----------



## BXSquish

I got my first letter in November then my second letter in February.


----------



## BXSquish

Actually, the letter you got, it was 2 weeks before i received another letter.


----------



## compuradon

sopranocaponyc said:


> yeah I got that 1st letter in Nov, then 2nd letter saying I'm in on Saturday. how long after you sent your reply saying you were still interested in the program did you get a letter for the physical. I'm heading to the post office in a bit to mail via certified with return receipt.


A few months later, but I never got a letter explicitly stating that I was accepted into the program, just a letter to take the physical to complete the application.


----------



## sopranocaponyc

BXSquish said:


> I got my first letter in November then my second letter in February.


and you started school for that term right. when did you start work?


----------



## BXSquish

School was the first week of Feb and work was Feb 21st.


----------



## tjy1004

BXSquish said:


> School was the first week of Feb and work was Feb 21st.


I wish I can start school this september... How is work as an apprentice?? Have you had a exprience in electrical field?


----------



## sopranocaponyc

BXSquish said:


> School was the first week of Feb and work was Feb 21st.


So for the jan/feb term it starts 1st week of Feb if that's so, I can plan a little Vacation before I start. I had planned on going to Australia for 3 weeks in January. It would be my last time really I can plan one because you don't get much vacation time as an apprentice they count as days out and can come back to haunt you.


----------



## sopranocaponyc

the old school was downtown near 8th ave and 18st I think, now what is it near hunter college uptown 68st and 3rdave


----------



## icefalkon

Way to go Alex! Again, I'm glad you waited and everything is coming to fruition. You never know...I just might end up as your mentor...lol


----------



## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> Way to go Alex! Again, I'm glad you waited and everything is coming to fruition. You never know...I just might end up as your mentor...lol


You are all ready my mentor, maybe not technically but I have learned so much in the almost year we have been friends. Sky's the limit for all of us that want something bad enough. My motto is Motivation + dedication =results not just in the gym but in life.


----------



## icefalkon

I'm glad to help you on your journey. You'll be a great addition to the Local and I'll do everything I can to help you succeed. Ha...that includes breaking your balls if I hear anything bad!  

But again, that's what it's about...or rather is SUPPOSED to be about.

*It's a Brotherhood not a neighborhood. *


----------



## compuradon

*Letter from Empire State College*



Tom31 said:


> Thank you


Hey guys --

I got a letter from Empire State College today to report to orientation on Tuesday, August 20th. The letter states "Congratulations on being admitted into the IBEW Local 3 as a registered apprentice." The letter doesn't say anything about starting work though? Maybe they will let us know when we are there. 

Tom


----------



## tjy1004

Oh wow congratulation!! I wish I had that mail when I get home today.


----------



## Tom31

compuradon said:


> Hey guys --
> 
> I got a letter from Empire State College today to report to orientation on Tuesday, August 20th. The letter states "Congratulations on being admitted into the IBEW Local 3 as a registered apprentice." The letter doesn't say anything about starting work though? Maybe they will let us know when we are there.
> 
> Tom


Good for you ! I am still waiting i hope soon !


----------



## icefalkon

compuradon said:


> Hey guys --
> 
> I got a letter from Empire State College today to report to orientation on Tuesday, August 20th. The letter states "Congratulations on being admitted into the IBEW Local 3 as a registered apprentice." The letter doesn't say anything about starting work though? Maybe they will let us know when we are there.
> 
> Tom


Congratulations Tom!

Welcome Aboard!


----------



## icefalkon

A little history for you newly accepted Apprentices...enjoy...

http://www.local3.com/?q=node/5937


----------



## mochamonie

checked my mail and I also received my letter from Empire State college. I have orientation on the 21st.


----------



## domenicony

Hey fellow members, I applied for LU #3 A program back in November 2008, I took my test in May 2009 and had my interview in July 2009. It is going into 4 years since the interview and I have yet to recieve a word from the union. I make a call every 4-6 months with the same generic answer. The last time I called I was told I was still in the running and still on the list but no further information.The people who answer these calls always sound aggrevated and don't like to explain anything. I don't know what else to think other then wait and wait... Any suggestions.


----------



## Tom31

mochamonie said:


> checked my mail and I also received my letter from Empire State college. I have orientation on the 21st.


I got too today but i have orientation on the 20 !!!!


----------



## tjy1004

Yes!! Im so excited!!!! I recived mail from Empire State College. My orientation is on 21st.


----------



## sopranocaponyc

domenicony said:


> Hey fellow members, I applied for LU #3 A program back in November 2008, I took my test in May 2009 and had my interview in July 2009. It is going into 4 years since the interview and I have yet to recieve a word from the union. I make a call every 4-6 months with the same generic answer. The last time I called I was told I was still in the running and still on the list but no further information.The people who answer these calls always sound aggrevated and don't like to explain anything. I don't know what else to think other then wait and wait... Any suggestions.


 
Hate to say this, but that's all you can do now is wait. there is still time to get in for the jan/feb class. they normally send out stuff dec into Jan for that class. no worries your time will come. Ya gotta Keep the Faith


----------



## compuradon

*Overtime for apprentices*

Does anybody know if apprentices work overtime? Also, are the hours spent in school paid? Say if we work 35 hours on the job, and 5 in school, do we get a full 40 hour pay week? I'm trying to calculate monthly expenses vs income in order to make due. Thanks!


----------



## Epic_NN

compuradon said:


> Does anybody know if apprentices work overtime? Also, are the hours spent in school paid? Say if we work 35 hours on the job, and 5 in school, do we get a full 40 hour pay week? I'm trying to calculate monthly expenses vs income in order to make due. Thanks!


I don't know about your local but here they told me you're almost guarenteed overtime work.


----------



## BXSquish

compuradon said:


> Does anybody know if apprentices work overtime? Also, are the hours spent in school paid? Say if we work 35 hours on the job, and 5 in school, do we get a full 40 hour pay week? I'm trying to calculate monthly expenses vs income in order to make due. Thanks!


We do not get paid for the time we are in school. Overtime varies depending on the job. If your looking to work additional hours you can call the apprenticeship office and be placed on a weekend work list. If there is anything available they will contact you.


----------



## phil20

every job is different some have tons of o. t. some have none. Expect to be broke the first few years but good luck


----------



## sopranocaponyc

compuradon said:


> Does anybody know if apprentices work overtime? Also, are the hours spent in school paid? Say if we work 35 hours on the job, and 5 in school, do we get a full 40 hour pay week? I'm trying to calculate monthly expenses vs income in order to make due. Thanks!


Depending on the shop and how big the job is, there can be OT, but as always they make sure it doesn't conflict with school. you don't get paid to go to school, but you can, if you want take an extra class at Empire downtown. Just figure your pay 35 hours a week and try this site. I've used this site to figure my pay every week from my Deli job and its always within a dollar or two.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/cointuitonlinepayroll/netpayHRatescalculator.asp


----------



## 360max

sopranocaponyc said:


> Depending on the shop and how big the job is, there can be OT, but as always they make sure it doesn't conflict with school. you don't get paid to go to school, but you can, if you want take an extra class at Empire downtown. Just figure your pay 35 hours a week and try this site. I've used this site to figure my pay every week and its always within a dollar or two.
> 
> http://www.paycheckcity.com/cointuitonlinepayroll/netpayHRatescalculator.asp


did you start work already?:thumbup:


----------



## sopranocaponyc

360max said:


> did you start work already?:thumbup:


No I didn't start work yet, I just got accepted into the program a few weeks ago and still have to do my orientation/ physical and probably will start school in next class in Jan/feb 14. I was in the program about 10 years ago and got up to 2nd year school wise so I have a great idea about the program.


----------



## 360max

sopranocaponyc said:


> No I didn't start work yet, I just got accepted into the program a few weeks ago and still have to do my orientation/ physical and probably will start school in next class in Jan/feb 14. I was in the program about 10 years ago and got up to 2nd year school wise so I have a great idea about the program.


...bet your kicking yourself now for not finishing


----------



## sopranocaponyc

360max said:


> ...bet your kicking yourself now for not finishing


Yes, and no. Yes because if I had stayed in I would be 5 years or so into being a journeyman. No because if I stayed in I would of probably made the wrong choices because I was younger and more naïve than I am now. In the time I've been out I've grown as a person and now I'll be going in with a better on-look of life etc.


----------



## mochamonie

Hey there folks I received another letter from the union to report to the hall on the 4th 5th and 6th with my tools and some paperwork. My orientation is tomorrow at the college and I wanted to know if we get our school books at the college orientation or when we report to the hall? Just wanted to be prepared cause I know it will be quite a load to carry and want to plan accordingly.


----------



## compuradon

*Books for school*



mochamonie said:


> Hey there folks I received another letter from the union to report to the hall on the 4th 5th and 6th with my tools and some paperwork. My orientation is tomorrow at the college and I wanted to know if we get our school books at the college orientation or when we report to the hall? Just wanted to be prepared cause I know it will be quite a load to carry and want to plan accordingly.


No school books are required for the orientation, neither are school books given out during orientation. Classes start September 9th, and Leetoya from Empire State said they would send something in the mail with the schedule, etc. The orientation was awesome -- great people and solidarity from day 1.

I received a similar letter to report to the hall on Sept. 4, with job assignments starting as early as Sept. 9th.


----------



## mochamonie

So it looks like my first college class will be college writing and research. Found out at orientation that we are responsible for buying books for our college classes. I assumed that we didn't have to pay for anything out of pocket except for our tools but hey no biggie. I looked up the 2 books needed for the course at amazon and its only like 40 bucks for both. Where are other folks going to get their books from? If there is a cheaper alternative I would love to know.thanks


----------



## sopranocaponyc

mochamonie said:


> So it looks like my first college class will be college writing and research. Found out at orientation that we are responsible for buying books for our college classes. I assumed that we didn't have to pay for anything out of pocket except for our tools but hey no biggie. I looked up the 2 books needed for the course at amazon and its only like 40 bucks for both. Where are other folks going to get their books from? If there is a cheaper alternative I would love to know.thanks


I took that class back in 02, its your basic remedial writing class. You do get a letter grade for it.


----------



## mochamonie

As I was just informed that particular class is not remedial and is a regular part of the curriculum at empire.


----------



## 360max

good luck to all you guys starting school, I hope you do well!!


----------



## sopranocaponyc

mochamonie said:


> As I was just informed that particular class is not remedial and is a regular part of the curriculum at empire.


Oh my bad, it felt like that when I took it. i'm so glad I won't have to take this class again. I'm sure you will do well.


----------



## compuradon

*Hours for apprentices*



BXSquish said:


> We do not get paid for the time we are in school. Overtime varies depending on the job. If your looking to work additional hours you can call the apprenticeship office and be placed on a weekend work list. If there is anything available they will contact you.


Thanks man. What are the typical hours that you guys work? I know it says 35 hrs/week, is that like 7-2:30 or 8-3:30?


----------



## phil20

job could start at 7 or 7:30 or 8 each shop n job are different


----------



## 360max

phil20 said:


> job could start at 7 or 7:30 or 8 each shop n job are different


or you could start at 3pm or even 11pm


----------



## Salvatoreg02

compuradon said:


> Thanks man. What are the typical hours that you guys work? I know it says 35 hrs/week, is that like 7-2:30 or 8-3:30?


The best shift for an apperentice is anything after 3:30pm. This reason being is you get to leave work for school and get paid at the same time.


----------



## phil20

yes a job can start at anytime but mostly the ones i listed earlier


----------



## sopranocaponyc

Normally apprentices in local 3 nyc have a start time of either 7:30am-2:30pm or 7:45am-2:45pm.


----------



## sopranocaponyc

360max said:


> did you start work already?:thumbup:


I started school last week and will be getting my job ticket Feb12th with work to start feb 13th. finally!


----------



## icefalkon

sopranocaponyc said:


> Normally apprentices in local 3 nyc have a start time of either 7:30am-2:30pm or 7:45am-2:45pm.


You won't be starting at 7:45AM in any known shops Alex. It'll either be 7-230 or 8-3.

730 is a rarity as is 8-3 these days. 745AM is unheard of and not feasible.

Congrats again and welcome aboard!

Steve


----------



## icefalkon

BXSquish said:


> If your looking to work additional hours you can call the apprenticeship office and be placed on a weekend work list. If there is anything available they will contact you.


LOL I have never heard of this in all my years as an Instructor. Where did you get this information from?


----------



## compuradon

*Congrats*

Congrats man! What shop are you with? 

During November and December, there was a "Weekend Warrior" work list that you would put your name on if you were available to work weekends, usually with a different shop and a different job site. It was mentioned in the Apprentice Union meeting, and even my shop and foreman, EJ Electric, asked me if I was interested in working weekends at another job site. This was couple of months ago, I'm not sure if it's still going on. 

Tom


----------



## icefalkon

compuradon said:


> Congrats man! What shop are you with?
> 
> During November and December, there was a "Weekend Warrior" work list that you would put your name on if you were available to work weekends, usually with a different shop and a different job site. It was mentioned in the Apprentice Union meeting, and even my shop and foreman, EJ Electric, asked me if I was interested in working weekends at another job site. This was couple of months ago, I'm not sure if it's still going on.
> 
> Tom


The Decrmber thing was an anomoly Tom. Never done before and to be honest it's doubtful it'll be done again. The sheer number of AJ's who lost their minds was off the chain. Working at another job "site" isn't the same as going to work for another shop on the weekend. That's what I thought you guys meant. 

EJ is a great shop! Who are you working for? 

Regardless...weekend warrior is a Journeyperson term used when trying to entice someone to work. It's a tactic that many feel should be exclusively used for AJ's. 

Steve


----------



## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> You won't be starting at 7:45AM in any known shops Alex. It'll either be 7-230 or 8-3.
> 
> 730 is a rarity as is 8-3 these days. 745AM is unheard of and not feasible.
> 
> Congrats again and welcome aboard!
> 
> Steve


Thanks, I hope I don't get stuck with T.R. ricotta Electrical company. didn't like them. Adco ELEC I did like, I prefer the big shop over a small shop but it doesn't matter, its a new beginning and what happened in the past is in the past.


----------



## icefalkon

sopranocaponyc said:


> Thanks, I hope I don't get stuck with T.R. ricotta Electrical company. didn't like them. Adco ELEC I did like, I prefer the big shop over a small shop but it doesn't matter, its a new beginning and what happened in the past is in the past.


ADCO is great, EJ is great, Zwicker is great...but so are shops like Hugh O'Kane, Lowy & Donnath, and PE Stone....

The past is the past. You've been afforded a unique chance here young Jedi...learn from the past so as not to repeat it.

S


----------



## BXSquish

icefalkon said:


> LOL I have never heard of this in all my years as an Instructor. Where did you get this information from?


They ran it over the summer for apprentices but it's gone now.


----------



## Giorgio.g

icefalkon said:


> LOL I have never heard of this in all my years as an Instructor. Where did you get this information from?


That is very true, I have heard from a few shops that i have known while on my time as an inspector that you can do just that if you need OT, Welsbach, EJ, 5 Star just to name a few.


----------



## icefalkon

Giorgio.g said:


> That is very true, I have heard from a few shops that i have known while on my time as an inspector that you can do just that if you need OT, Welsbach, EJ, 5 Star just to name a few.


I was at school tonight and asked Timmy about this. It was done for 2 months as an experiment. It was never done before with Apprentices. What you're thinking of Giorgio was when we did this for A Journeymen. When we are at almost full employment this is allowable. However being that we have instituted furlough's again the "weekend warrior" is a thing of the past. 

Part of the reason it was stopped, I was told today, was because Journeymen started making calls to the Union. Why is it that Apprentices...who are guaranteed work for their entire Apprenticeship here in Local 3...were being allowed to go on overtime shots when we have men on the Bench?

The response that Apprentices are cheap labor doesn't really hold water when overtime benefits begin pouring in. Also, one must remember...and for the new guys...take note...

The organization itself is geared to the benefit of Journeypersons...not Apprentices. You're an Apprentice for 4yrs, an MIJ for 18 months...and a Journeyman for the rest of your life. 

So...those guys who called and wrote letters...had a valid argument. Why aren't these shops with all this OT work being pressured to hire more men? That's what they're "supposed" to do..isn't it?

The answer was yes.

Have you guys been informed about the Mentoring Program yet?


----------



## sopranocaponyc

icefalkon said:


> I was at school tonight and asked Timmy about this. It was done for 2 months as an experiment. It was never done before with Apprentices. What you're thinking of Giorgio was when we did this for A Journeymen. When we are at almost full employment this is allowable. However being that we have instituted furlough's again the "weekend warrior" is a thing of the past.
> 
> Part of the reason it was stopped, I was told today, was because Journeymen started making calls to the Union. Why is it that Apprentices...who are guaranteed work for their entire Apprenticeship here in Local 3...were being allowed to go on overtime shots when we have men on the Bench?
> 
> The response that Apprentices are cheap labor doesn't really hold water when overtime benefits begin pouring in. Also, one must remember...and for the new guys...take note...
> 
> The organization itself is geared to the benefit of Journeypersons...not Apprentices. You're an Apprentice for 4yrs, an MIJ for 18 months...and a Journeyman for the rest of your life.
> 
> So...those guys who called and wrote letters...had a valid argument. Why aren't these shops with all this OT work being pressured to hire more men? That's what they're "supposed" to do..isn't it?
> 
> The answer was yes.
> 
> Have you guys been informed about the Mentoring Program yet?


I know all about the Mentoring program but haven't been assigned one as of yet, that will probably come next week. College class at Hudson st was cancelled today which is awesome due to the weather. I missed the 1st class due to the fact that I had to work and didn't find out what day and time I had class till the Saturday before and I had to work and with such notice I couldn't switch my schedule(talking about my deli job) I've got bills including car payment that's due and couldn't afford to miss work. Got a letter from the college today saying how you missed class and you have to be in the class the 1st two week otherwise you get dropped,(and I have contacted the dean and my Teacher about and hopefully getting a syllabus and find out what books I need) which I was aware of and planned on going today as I had told my job about the days I have college class. 

Now two ?'s will I find out at the union hall next week what day I have Electrical theory, either a Tues or Thursday(Thursdays would be best as I'm off my deli job on Thursdays and Fridays) I start working next Thursday and my plan for now is to work sat and sun and one closing shift 5pm-cl on one of the days I don't have class. now next week I would work thur and Friday with the union and I forgot how the pay week works. would it go Mon-fri get paid following Friday. so basically my 1st check would be for 2 days on feb 21th and also Monday feb 17th is presidents day and that's a paid holiday so I would get a check from the union for that and if and (I doubt I would) if I work that day its time and a half right. Oh, and also would I get all my books etc for Electrical theory next week.


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## Salvatoreg02

Slightly off topic, but, since most of you here are local 3, I was wandering if anyone has heard of recent story that a group of local 3 members have started a class action lawsuit against the local for blacklisting certain members so, I was told. This anonymous group has worked for several yrs now together. They apparently have compiled enough evidence against the local for illegal hiring practices thru the JIB. Im using the word blacklisting, even though there was a different term used which I can't remember. The word used was referring to short term employment. Members are stating that they can deny short term calls because of the affect it will have on them in the event a longer term job presents itself after they were laid off after the short term call. I was told they have enough evidence to prove that certain people were chosen to fill the short term call to allow for a specific large group of members who have been persistently employed since 2009, with very little un-employment. They have gone to state that this very large group consists mostly of members having more then 20yrs of pension credits as well as a very large number of members who can retire at any given time because they are at either close to retirement or beyond. That's all I have for now..


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## relica85

icefalkon said:


> I was at school tonight and asked Timmy about this. It was done for 2 months as an experiment. It was never done before with Apprentices. What you're thinking of Giorgio was when we did this for A Journeymen. When we are at almost full employment this is allowable. However being that we have instituted furlough's again the "weekend warrior" is a thing of the past.
> 
> Part of the reason it was stopped, I was told today, was because Journeymen started making calls to the Union. Why is it that Apprentices...who are guaranteed work for their entire Apprenticeship here in Local 3...were being allowed to go on overtime shots when we have men on the Bench?
> 
> The response that Apprentices are cheap labor doesn't really hold water when overtime benefits begin pouring in. Also, one must remember...and for the new guys...take note...
> 
> The organization itself is geared to the benefit of Journeypersons...not Apprentices. You're an Apprentice for 4yrs, an MIJ for 18 months...and a Journeyman for the rest of your life.
> 
> So...those guys who called and wrote letters...had a valid argument. Why aren't these shops with all this OT work being pressured to hire more men? That's what they're "supposed" to do..isn't it?
> 
> The answer was yes.
> 
> Have you guys been informed about the Mentoring Program yet?


I am going to meet my mentor tomorrow and I and have been in union for 5 months. 
They rarely call for the Weekend Warrior but they still do it using apprentices.


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## icefalkon

relica85 said:


> I am going to meet my mentor tomorrow and I and have been in union for 5 months.
> They rarely call for the Weekend Warrior but they still do it using apprentices.


That's great! PM me his name...I should know him. 

I taught tonight...what a sucky night...and asked the guys in my Alternative Energy Class...they too heard of it from your union meeting but haven't heard anything else about it.

When you meet your mentor...have an open mind. He's not there to be your dad...gramps...or whatever...

More like a big brother...someone to look out for you, etc. The way it was back when I got it..it was father/son. I remember one specific example...I came to work one day still hammered from the night before. I must have been 21...22...a 3rd Yr...

My General Foreman at the time...who is infamous in LU3 and is still working...called my old man. He didn't say boo to me...nothing..not a word...just called my father.

I got home usual time...330 or so...and pops was "waiting" for me...

To say I got the verbal **** kicked out of me is an understatement! LOL Never did that again! 

Well, that's what our Mentoring Program is like...but lighter...someone to show you the ropes, be a shoulder, a guide, and someone there for you.

Granted not every Mentor is on point with this...but this is what we aim for. I mentor 3 Apprentices and a boat load of guys I've taught over the years since before the program. Not everyone has family in the business, and not all family in the business is necessarily a good role model...we do what we can with what we have...if that makes sense.

Regardless...good luck with your Mentor Pairing! 

S


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## icefalkon

Salvatoreg02 said:


> Slightly off topic, but, since most of you here are local 3, I was wandering if anyone has heard of recent story that a group of local 3 members have started a class action lawsuit against the local for blacklisting certain members so, I was told. This anonymous group has worked for several yrs now together. They apparently have compiled enough evidence against the local for illegal hiring practices thru the JIB. Im using the word blacklisting, even though there was a different term used which I can't remember. The word used was referring to short term employment. Members are stating that they can deny short term calls because of the affect it will have on them in the event a longer term job presents itself after they were laid off after the short term call. I was told they have enough evidence to prove that certain people were chosen to fill the short term call to allow for a specific large group of members who have been persistently employed since 2009, with very little un-employment. They have gone to state that this very large group consists mostly of members having more then 20yrs of pension credits as well as a very large number of members who can retire at any given time because they are at either close to retirement or beyond. That's all I have for now..


Interesting Sal and thank you for sharing that. 

The term you use isn't used in LU3, not even in jest. As recently as 2010 there was a contractor investigated by the NLRB for threatening to BB not one but two members. 

This lawsuit isn't new news..it's always coming up in one reiteration or another...almost like an urban legend. The group you are referring to isn't exactly anonymous lol. Their membership was brought to light a few years ago when their "alternative LU3 website" was exposed and subsequently shut down. That website is once again running but under a different countries server. 

Now as for suing LU3...well...the local is only worth $1M...so I don't really know what they intend to get out of a class action suit...but if they have evidence, more power to them. I am doubtful though about having enough evidence to show intent and cause that the Joint Industry Board has violated any laws by putting others to work instead of them. That's a pretty tall order to fill. Especially when LU3 doesn't create the list, a computer does based on a large number of factors. Most prominent is how much time you've been unemployed over the last two calendar years.

However, the facts are:

If you take a short term call you are NOT off the list...nor are you off the list if you take a 80/20 PLA job.

Local 3 does not give out jobs. The Joint Industry Board gives out jobs. The JIB is also a non-profit separate entity that manages the rank and file job placement. (I know you know this already...sorry to state the obvious but many here...especially new Apprentices don't know this).

Local 3 IBEW has some of the input as to who goes where, etc...but the majority of the slotting is handled by the JIB, and is now completely computer driven. 

For the record, if wrongdoing is going on, I am one of the first to cry foul. I believe in justice and everyone gets their fair shake. The gentleman on the Examining Board who I work for uses this phrase at the A Journeyman Test and I believe it...

Everyone starts out with a 100%...your actions throughout your career and life move that number up and down accordingly.

It's up to you to pass...no one else...just you.

Not everyone is ethical and honest. However I don't believe the story to the extent it's told. I've heard it too many times over the years...

Thank you again for sharing it!

S


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## MElectric

Any locals opening up in the NY tristate area I'm willing to travel for work I can't sit around waiting for something to open up I have to go out there and obtain it myself


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## heman515

*lu3 city division*

hey im a fairly new AJ for the last few years, i am interested in the lu3's city division. From what i know, the rate is lower and so are the bennies. Anyone have any idea? thanks


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## icefalkon

heman515 said:


> hey im a fairly new AJ for the last few years, i am interested in the lu3's city division. From what i know, the rate is lower and so are the bennies. Anyone have any idea? thanks


Yes I can answer your questions. I was put in the A City Division back in 2007 to report what was going on. I didn't give them a very good review.

The A City Division are NOT what you would call A Journeymen at all. In fact they are really M Division but get A money. They have a huge amount of disdain for A Construction and are outwardly disrespectful toward anything regarding 158-11. They have bizarre rules...such as the Foreman or "Supervisor" as he's called is also allowed to be your Shop Steward. Now you should be thinking...hey...that's not right...because how can the guy who wants to write you up for going to the bathroom too many times be the guy who's supposed to represent you?!?!

They do not have the medical we enjoy as A Journeymen, they do not have the retirement plan we have as A Journeymen. 

What they DO have is VASTLY easier work. Most of the Agencies, especially DCAS have barely sufficient people changing 2-5 ballasts a day, who can't bend conduit to save their lives, and have mind boggling work orders dating back years! When I arrived I was told by an old man working for DCAS as an electrician..."This is a 5 newspaper a day job son...start reading"

Any other questions...ask away!


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## heman515

*lu3's city division*

Ice- thanks for the info. Now if i was to switch to the city division and not like it there, can i come back to the A division anytime?


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## icefalkon

heman515 said:


> Ice- thanks for the info. Now if i was to switch to the city division and not like it there, can i come back to the A division anytime?


Well you don't just "switch"...you have to score high enough on the City Electrician Test. I can assure you it's crazy hard. It was almost as hard as my NYC Master Electrician test. Ridiculous. 

BUT...there are classes you can take. There is an unreal number of Russian and Indian people in the A City Division nowadays. How is that possible? Some of them don't even speak proper English...?

Well...they have advertisements in their local papers and have people giving courses for these guys to get almost a perfect score. I scored in the upper 90's...that's why I was placed in DCAS...the higher you score the more agencies want you.

If you are an A Journeyman you will ALWAYS be an A Journeyman. You never give up that classification. So yes you can come back to A Construction. You'll be at the bottom of the Employment List...but yes you can come back.


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## heman515

*lu3's city division*

Ice...Thanks for your wealth of knowledge, its greatly appreciated brother.


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## vtheo

*2015 apprentice acceptance letters?*

Has anyone received a letter stating an acceptance for the apprentice position.


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## Dave Dinero

vtheo said:


> Has anyone received a letter stating an acceptance for the apprentice position.


Nope, still waiting. Another member of this forum had his interview on the first day (March 23rd) and he hasn't heard anything as well


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## pburke1229

Whats up guys, first and foremost thank you every one for all the information on this site. It has been extremely helpful during this application process. To Dave and Theo, I had my interview the first week of May and recieved a phone call from the union office around July 8th informing me that I was selected to join the Union. When I spoke to the women on the phone she stated that I would recieve some information in the mail regarding the physical process. On July 20th I recieved that information and was instructed to call the office to schedule my physical which will be on Aug. 3rd. The induvidual I spoke with also said if the physical was good to go then I could expect to start in early September. Hope this helps and good luck!


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## vtheo

Thanks guys. Would they accept more Applicants as soon as January or would we have to wait until next year ?


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## vtheo

Hey pburke did you state in your interview that you had any prior electrical experience or do you not have any at all?


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## pburke1229

Hey Theo, I mentioned that I hung curtinwall for two years down in Miami and worked for a residential home improvement company for a year or so. My military back ground helped the most I think. I did mention though that I had very little electrical experience.


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## vtheo

Oh okay great. Yeah deff. Wish you luck.


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## Harry_Keogh

pburke1229 said:


> Whats up guys, first and foremost thank you every one for all the information on this site. It has been extremely helpful during this application process. To Dave and Theo, I had my interview the first week of May and recieved a phone call from the union office around July 8th informing me that I was selected to join the Union. When I spoke to the women on the phone she stated that I would recieve some information in the mail regarding the physical process. On July 20th I recieved that information and was instructed to call the office to schedule my physical which will be on Aug. 3rd. The induvidual I spoke with also said if the physical was good to go then I could expect to start in early September. Hope this helps and good luck!


How did the physical go? What was it like?

My brother is suppose to go for one next week, and is unsure what it's about. He was treated for a herniated disc not to long ago and is worried that my be grounds for a DQ. He never had surgery just a single cortisone shot and has been fine ever since.

Do you think it is something he should be worried about?


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## LGLS

No worries.


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## Harry_Keogh

IslandGuy said:


> No worries.


He'll like that, so I assume I can tell him to fill out his forms listing the shot and the herniated disc without fear of missing out on this opportunity? Because I believe his plan was to not mention it at all because he was nervous about what may happen because of it.


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## pburke1229

Hey Harry, sorry for the late reply but as far as the physical goes it was pretty standard. he will check in and wait to see the doctor, once called he will have to change into that paper garment and the doctor will check reflexes breathing and lung condition, ask some basic medical questions. Their also seemed to be a bit of a psyche exam to it as the physical part was 5 mins but the doctor spoke for another 20 minutes to me. After that he will have to wait for the blood work and urine to be taken. The nurse will call him in to office and take BMI measurements and then draw some blood to be sent out. After that the nurse will walk him the the bathroom where she will turn off all the water and ask him to drop a sample in a temp cup. once the temp is checked and acceptable it will also be sent out. I have received my appointment dates for Empire college as well as my safety classes however the paper stated _*DO NOT TO QUIT MY CURRENT JOB *_ on the bottom pending my physical exam. So still waiting on communication letting me know the physical, urine and blood work was ok. Wondering myself if they would make those appointments and give me directions to purchase tools if they did not in fact have all the results. If any one knows that would be great as I really do not want to purchase everything to only get a denial letter later.


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## unnormaldude68

pburke1229 said:


> Hey Harry, sorry for the late reply but as far as the physical goes it was pretty standard. he will check in and wait to see the doctor, once called he will have to change into that paper garment and the doctor will check reflexes breathing and lung condition, ask some basic medical questions. Their also seemed to be a bit of a psyche exam to it as the physical part was 5 mins but the doctor spoke for another 20 minutes to me. After that he will have to wait for the blood work and urine to be taken. The nurse will call him in to office and take BMI measurements and then draw some blood to be sent out. After that the nurse will walk him the the bathroom where she will turn off all the water and ask him to drop a sample in a temp cup. once the temp is checked and acceptable it will also be sent out. I have received my appointment dates for Empire college as well as my safety classes however the paper stated _*DO NOT TO QUIT MY CURRENT JOB *_ on the bottom pending my physical exam. So still waiting on communication letting me know the physical, urine and blood work was ok. Wondering myself if they would make those appointments and give me directions to purchase tools if they did not in fact have all the results. If any one knows that would be great as I really do not want to purchase everything to only get a denial letter later.


I also am at the same point you are at. I bought my took kit yesterday, as some of the places were sold out already and I didn't want to risk it. Worst case scenario I will just go return the kit.


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## worden

I had my physical as well 2 weeks ago and I have school orientation tomorrow and 3 days of orientation with the apprenticeship wednesday/thursday/friday. Something major came up and I can't attend the last two days. Does anyone know how this will affect my apprenticeship?


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## LGLS

worden said:


> I had my physical as well 2 weeks ago and I have school orientation tomorrow and 3 days of orientation with the apprenticeship wednesday/thursday/friday. Something major came up and I can't attend the last two days. Does anyone know how this will affect my apprenticeship?


 You are going to all 3 days or you're out. This was already explained to you.


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## XNavyVet29

*Military Vet starting Orientation this week..*

How are you Gents, Starting the process this week, passed the test and going to orientation this week, Physical on the 31st...I just turned 30 and had a baby 7 weeks ago...I currently have 2 decent paying jobs (both pay over $25 hr) not careers in any aspect but good for now type jobs....i am just getting a little anxious about starting from scratch and taking a huge pay cut, mostly due to just having a newborn and saving for a wedding and house, which seems impossible making $14 hr for 5 yrs....I know everyone has to pay their dues and long term it will be worth it....Can some Local 3 Vets calm my this new- Dad's nerves to make this career jump!:thumbsup: Thanks !


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## pburke1229

XNavy whats going on, did you happen to attend the orientation this Friday. If you did they handed out a large amount of literature in a bag, in side that bag were a stack of booklets. Each booklet contained information on all of our benefits. The red book in particular describes accurately the pay scale we can expect in the years to come. If i am correct we start at 13$ the first 6 months and a dollar raise as long as we do well in school until our 4th year were it jumps in to the low $20's. But that is cash in pocket if we were to include the payments made towards our benefit package, contributed by the hiring contractor, then that starting number is closer to $22 an hour. Bottom line if you want a career that will support your growing family you know what to do. For myself it was a no brainer, someone close to me has recently retired out and if I am afforded half of the benefits and opportunities that he was , I will consider myself blessed.:thumbsup: If I am mistaken perhaps some of the more senior members could correct me.


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## glazor

You start off with 13 dollars an hour, 35 hours a week, taxes are taken care off i think. A raise of 1 dollar every 6 months. Think of this not as a job but as career. Yeah it sucks in the beginning but it is well worth it in a long run.


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## vtheo

Has anyone heard about the new brotherhood union ( working mostly for residential )


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## fistofbolts

vtheo said:


> Has anyone heard about the new brotherhood union ( working mostly for residential )


? Huh


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## vtheo

It's a new New division , they had interviews , it is separate from Local3 I was told. They do mostly residential work ,this will be the first year trying it out. And was wondering if anyone has heard back from this new division.


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## LInewbie

Anyone still waiting to hear about being cleared by medical?

I took the physical/drug test ~3 weeks ago and haven't heard anything, anyone know whats up?


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## glazor

LInewbie said:


> Anyone still waiting to hear about being cleared by medical?
> 
> I took the physical/drug test ~3 weeks ago and haven't heard anything, anyone know whats up?


Did you have your college and union 3 orientations yet?


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## LInewbie

glazor said:


> Did you have your college and union 3 orientations yet?


Yea, had the college and union orientations this past week.


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## glazor

LInewbie said:


> Yea, had the college and union orientations this past week.


Well they did say that they will call us Monday or Tuesday. And if they don't I'll call em up Wednesday just to be sure. BTW what day did you put as your first?


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## LInewbie

glazor said:


> Well they did say that they will call us Monday or Tuesday. And if they don't I'll call em up Wednesday just to be sure. BTW what day did you put as your first?


I must of stepped out when they said that, I put down 9/8 as my start date.


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## glazor

LInewbie said:


> I must of stepped out when they said that, I put down 9/8 as my start date.


Anyway I couldn't wait and called them up today and sure enough they said that my medical came back satisfactory and I should come a day before for a job ticket. So you should get a call tomorrow at the latest.


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## unnormaldude68

I just got my call on Tuesday saying my medical came back satisfactory. I would think if you don't hear anything by tomorrow afternoon to call them.


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## LInewbie

glazor said:


> Anyway I couldn't wait and called them up today and sure enough they said that my medical came back satisfactory and I should come a day before for a job ticket. So you should get a call tomorrow at the latest.


I got the call tuesday morning. I start the day after labor day, I can't wait!


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## glazor

Good luck.


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## XNavyVet29

*Local 3 orientation*

Ok go for physical tomorrow, orientation 8th 9th and 10th....does this still mean i am not hired? Cant really miss three days in a row at my other job, when would my actual paid start date be?


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## unnormaldude68

You are not hired until your medical comes back. We all had to take off three days from our current jobs for this. Unfortunate, but if you don't, there is someone else who will.


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## Lakon Harrison

Do you have a link to that site so i could see when to start lining up early for that


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## Lakon Harrison

When is the next time they are calling for electricians union i went last time and didnt get a call back i want to ready next around thanks


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## catmandoyo

anyone scheduled to take the aptitude test on Jan 23rd? How was the test for those of you who recently took it?


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## glazor

Did you get a letter? When did you apply?


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## catmandoyo

Yeah I applied on helmets and hard hats and received a conformation a few weeks ago.


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## glazor

In that case you are most likely one of very few. In your case it might be a little different, but to sum it up it was algebra and comprehension test, wasn't too hard for me.


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