# What gloves for handling 120VAC



## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

I don't wear gloves at all until over 600V.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

30 years ago the guys in the mill used clean cotton gloves to work on 120/240. I generally don’t use gloves because they become a hinderance. I also don’t have to because I can pull a PoCo meter without a permit, just a phone call and my contractor’s number. That will make all the difference in responses you get here.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Oceanobob said:


> Would like to ask about working hot [on a res service entrance meter main panel with distribution - a panel that most folks recommend be replaced (agree with that)].
> 
> I put this in small font just for those who would like to know how this situation occurred. But is not my question. Here Goes: Panel lead times and government permit times are quite lengthy, so a temporary repair with new 6061 bus bars and a new replacement main breaker was decided. Asking the utility to pull the meter without some type of permit is not "the action allowed these days" as the utility has embraced dumbing down, doing less, and charging more. Waiting for the panel and getting the permit is Yes the next steps for this job, but the present condition - what with random blinking and chewed up existing busbar surfaces was the reason to look further and see what was going on under the main breaker, and it was by far, oh so bad, the worse one of all! No way to sand it or clean it up, and once I had got into it, had to 'invent' the work pathway back to normal.
> 
> ...


If you are asking, the formal answer is 00.
Yes, if you do this kind of work day in and day out, you find what works for you and that's what you do.
The answer to the question will always be 00 gloves and protectors.
Back in the day, any old kind of cotton or leather gloves. or the ones with the PVC or what ever it is on the plan we used to call "second chance" gloves. You worked carefully and then along the way you realise you would have had a contact accident, therefore had a second chance. 
No one is going to give you permission to work barehanded or with anything other than 00s


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

I wear the maxi flex gloves, not for electrical safety but I want to keep my supple hands 🙄


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

PPE is always the last resort. 
Most of us can sympathize with lead time and availability of equipment, dealing with the utility company, long lead times for permits. It seems nobody wants to work but things have to get done. I have been waiting 3 months for the power company for a change over on a highly critical service. If it wasn't for the safety person for the government agency I was working for, I would have done it live. 
I rarely use the rubber gloves and keepers. I find them more of a hazard than isolating myself. Once things are snug then I put the gloves on for tightening the connections. Every job is different and a judgment call.


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## Dan the electricman (Jan 2, 2011)

I like these:


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Dan the electricman said:


> I like these:
> 
> View attachment 163138


I go for a fresh pair of something similar if spending a bunch of time in a <240v panel.

I also consider what I'm standing on. I have some Allen keys that lock into a plastic handle; kinda hokey, but it does keep your hands off the metal tool. Also have plastic handled ratchets.


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## hbiss (Mar 1, 2008)

Southeast Power said:


> The answer to the question will always be 00 gloves and protectors.


Actually, you are allowed to use just the rubber 00 gloves without the protectors if you need the dexterity.

-Hal


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Following 70E any rated rubber glove and leather protectors works. You can use them without leather protectors but:

1910.137(c)(2)(vii)(D)
Insulating gloves that have been used without protector gloves may not be reused until they have been tested under the provisions of paragraphs (c)(2)(viii) and (c)(2)(ix) of this section.

As far as sizing there are lots of charts showing you how to measure your hand size.

Now the reality is that at 120 V the minimum arc gap where you can form an arc is 1 millimeter. So realistically just about any nonconductive glove will work. That’s why 70E says to handle extension cords with clean, dry leather gloves. Leather drivers gloves easily exceed the 1 MM gap. But they cannot be tested. The ASTM test on voltage rated gloves is to fill the glove with water and dunk it in a tank up to the edge of the glove for 16 hours then hipot the glove. Anything other than a rubber glove will be soaked and fail. So it’s not that dry leather or cotton gloves won’t work, it’s that we don’t have a valid way to test anything but rubber.

I prefer class 0. The class 00s are just too easy to poke with a wire. Class 2s are great for MV (1000+ V) and the most common with linemen but a bit thick for small wires. I have 2s on the van but MV is something I do regularly. We have one set of 4s. Never used them except as emergency use. HEAVY.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

hbiss said:


> Actually, you are allowed to use just the rubber 00 gloves without the protectors if you need the dexterity.
> 
> -Hal


Yup, and there goes 50 bucks.


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

Your question is to open ended. Are you trying to insulate yourself? Or are you trying to protect your hands. I used to work for a company that required leather gloves for almost everything outside my pickup truck. I hated gloves and so I went out and bought tight fitting calf skin truckers gloves. Less than $20 a pair. Once they got dirty they went home with me for working around the house.

This situation is not rubbers and leather covers, IE insulating gloves. 

Then comes your level of confidence and skill. Can you stick your hands in a hot panel and not get shocked? Or are you looking for protection from a panel that you indicate should be replaced for some unknown reason? If the latter then you should shut off the main before taking off the cover and doing any work.

The big hint here is there is nothing that protects completely. Not knowing the AIC of the panel your working on is a good clue that you may be less than a journey man. Older panels can sneak up on you.

The AIC or fault current of the service will tell you the danger. If your not familiar with fault current and PPE zones then you should be turning off the main to do any work. 

Unless there is an iron lung, or some breathing machine for someones life then there is not a reason in the world you need to work a residential service hot. Schedule the time for the shut down and if need be have the POCO pull the service drop.


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

I always keep a pair of leathers handy for handling live wiring. This is over and above my "00" rubber and covers. I've done this for years to get it ingrained as to the respect I must have for the power I work with. I've gotten to the point that I reach for gloves before I open a control panel. It's not a bad habit to get into ...


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## Veteran Sparky (Apr 21, 2021)

Not just gloves, something as mundane as pulling a meter can arc flash. Should always be wearing PPE shirt, safety glasses and I will wear an arc flash shield and 1000v gloves to pull a meter. You may laugh, but I've had severe arc flash and it hurts like hell.
Samething with wearing protection to ride a motorcycle. I've had road rash and it ****in hurts!


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

i havent seen a meter flash, but i have been told by others and i sure believe it will


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## hbiss (Mar 1, 2008)

Almost Retired said:


> i havent seen a meter flash, but i have been told by others and i sure believe it will


Me neither, but you see pictures and videos of POCO workers pulling meters wearing full PPE. I guess if you do it enough the odds are going to get you.

-Hal


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

hbiss said:


> Me neither, but you see pictures and videos of POCO workers pulling meters wearing full PPE. I guess if you do it enough the odds are going to get you.
> 
> -Hal


yeah the poco guys around here are required to wear full ppe also


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## Oceanobob (Aug 14, 2021)

Much appreciated the information. Many thanks.


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## Mobius87 (May 20, 2019)

Man, I feel like I live in the wild west when I read these threads. POCO here will pull/set the meter with no PPE; and also climb on the roof, cut down the live line, hang it on the neighbors fence, and say call us when you're done.

Plus, brushing your bare knuckles across the live bus of that 120/240V resi panel is a cheap way to get a buzz in the morning. Who needs coffee?


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## Oceanobob (Aug 14, 2021)

Once upon a time, the above mention about the relationship was the method in these parts of the country.
"New Policy" these days.
**
FYI: this utility specs the max AIC at 10k for residential, and a thumbrule estimation shows PPE is required per the standard for arc flash. Notwithstanding that arithmetic, this inquiry has been helpful to learn what practices are done, especially in respect to gloves.
**
Sure is appreciated when the utility is cooperative.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

Oceanobob said:


> Here is the reasoning: He said he has done this for years and indicated he only touches one thing, never allows his body contact with anything other than obviously his shoes on the ground. Not sure if he is joking about the method, or does he in essence rely on that thin layer on those gloves - so I post this to see where others may comment.


Yes the one hand rule was taught for years when working on a panel. 
I worked 277volt lighting for years with no gloves, stripping wires for lights hot. What will get you is:
Oil soaked work boots
Wet work boots
Metal chips from drilling embedded in work boots.
Steel shanks in worn work boots.

See a pattern?
Also cloths won't protect you so kneeling on conductive surface don't work.


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## MR X (Jul 5, 2016)

If you are using insulated gloves in the US they need to be tested every 6 months even if they are never used. Also new never used have to be tested.
There is a lot of costs involved with owning insulated gloves. You will need atleast 2 pair of every voltage class you want to own. For 120/240 volt work clean leather will work fine.
I always use leather gloves when checking incoming utility ahead of the main and any voltage greater than 240 volts anywhere.


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## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

joe-nwt said:


> I don't wear gloves at all until over 600V.


Pretty much just use my brain.


Not against gloves but IMO, the danger from loss of manual dexterity exceeds the protection they afford at under 277V


that said, every job is different, I’m not opposed to using gloves if conditions warrant the. For instance, a tightly jammed box with loose wire nuts or I can’t isolate myself from ground. 


Then I also look at deenergizing. Which is always my first preference when practical.. even then treat every wire like a gun, it’s hot until proven otherwise.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

just the cowboy said:


> Yes the one hand rule was taught for years when working on a panel.
> 
> Also cloths won't protect you so kneeling on conductive surface don't work.


Once upon a time i use to sit on my heels and work it hot but now im to old to do that as my legs go numb so i simply turn it off so i can kneel on a padded mat. 

Working live taught a lot of good lessons and working live was never about working with out gloves. On the small stuff i never wear gloves but on the bigger stuff i wear gloves so i can use my fingers/hands as barriers.


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## cutlerhammer (Aug 16, 2011)

Oceanobob said:


> Would like to ask about working hot [on a res service entrance meter main panel with distribution - a panel that most folks recommend be replaced (agree with that)].
> 
> I put this in small font just for those who would like to know how this situation occurred. But is not my question. Here Goes: Panel lead times and government permit times are quite lengthy, so a temporary repair with new 6061 bus bars and a new replacement main breaker was decided. Asking the utility to pull the meter without some type of permit is not "the action allowed these days" as the utility has embraced dumbing down, doing less, and charging more. Waiting for the panel and getting the permit is Yes the next steps for this job, but the present condition - what with random blinking and chewed up existing busbar surfaces was the reason to look further and see what was going on under the main breaker, and it was by far, oh so bad, the worse one of all! No way to sand it or clean it up, and once I had got into it, had to 'invent' the work pathway back to normal.
> 
> ...


Just be careful where you put your fingers! No need to wear gloves if you are careful. If you get stung, it will be a learning experience!,


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

MR X said:


> If you are using insulated gloves in the US they need to be tested every 6 months even if they are never used. Also new never used have to be tested.
> There is a lot of costs involved with owning insulated gloves. You will need atleast 2 pair of every voltage class you want to own. For 120/240 volt work clean leather will work fine.
> I always use leather gloves when checking incoming utility ahead of the main and any voltage greater than 240 volts anywhere.


There is no requirement to test new/never worn gloves. This is straight from OSHA. I’ve had a few idiots (safety managers) try to do this though.

You don’t need multiple pairs if you have a backup plan. So for instance you might have spares that are shared among the crew or you can just wear a higher class in a pinch. It never fails that when I have a pair sent out that’s when I get hit with an emergency job.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

gpop said:


> Once upon a time i use to sit on my heels and work it hot but now im to old to do that as my legs go numb so i simply turn it off so i can kneel on a padded mat.
> 
> Working live taught a lot of good lessons and working live was never about working with out gloves. On the small stuff i never wear gloves but on the bigger stuff i wear gloves so i can use my fingers/hands as barriers.


I just spent the entire day working live. There were multiple panels with valve controllers, a large starter, protection panel for the equipment, and a PLC. For whatever reason they all had independent power supplies and some ran multiple units so there was no realistic way to isolate everything. So lots of testing and probing not only for what I was doing (troubleshooting) but also working out what was live and what wasn’t as I worked around it.

Granted most of it was 120 VAC controls. But the big reason to avoid ANY arcing at all in controls work is that usually what happens is you trip a fuse that either shuts down half the plant or you blow some obscure fuse that nobody stocks, or it isn’t fused and you blow up some antique part where the only source is fleabay. And just because it’s “120 V” to SOME neutral some of the “120 V” wiring measured 240ish to ground. Probably some phasing difference.

OSHA and 70E make exceptions to li e work for testing and that’s mostly what I did. But for instance when I needed to jumper wiring on the bottom contact block with live PLC wiring on top I just removed the mounting screw and set the live block to the side then modified the wiring I needed to get to before putting the block back. No live lines were harmed. I do like to fuse or breaker every PLC output individually partly for safety and partly because failures only wipe out one output.


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## whittom (Sep 20, 2010)

Oceanobob said:


> Would like to ask about working hot [on a res service entrance meter main panel with distribution - a panel that most folks recommend be replaced (agree with that)].
> 
> I put this in small font just for those who would like to know how this situation occurred. But is not my question. Here Goes: Panel lead times and government permit times are quite lengthy, so a temporary repair with new 6061 bus bars and a new replacement main breaker was decided. Asking the utility to pull the meter without some type of permit is not "the action allowed these days" as the utility has embraced dumbing down, doing less, and charging more. Waiting for the panel and getting the permit is Yes the next steps for this job, but the present condition - what with random blinking and chewed up existing busbar surfaces was the reason to look further and see what was going on under the main breaker, and it was by far, oh so bad, the worse one of all! No way to sand it or clean it up, and once I had got into it, had to 'invent' the work pathway back to normal.
> 
> ...


Try to work with only one hand in the panel at a time. Don't touch anything metal while in the panel. If you must wear gloves I was told leather gloves are good for handling 120 volts. Never tried it myself. Always handle the wires by there insulation which is rated for 600 volts Ac. Isolate the circuit you are working on. Put black tape on terminals above and below the terminal you are working on. Cardboard works good also. I've worked in Substations where if you tripped a breaker they had a special meeting for you and your tool bag. See ya. lol.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

whittom said:


> Try to work with only one hand in the panel at a time. Don't touch anything metal while in the panel. If you must wear gloves I was told leather gloves are good for handling 120 volts. Never tried it myself. Always handle the wires by there insulation which is rated for 600 volts Ac. Isolate the circuit you are working on. Put black tape on terminals above and below the terminal you are working on. Cardboard works good also. I've worked in Substations where if you tripped a breaker they had a special meeting for you and your tool bag. See ya. lol.


So I can tell you are a supervisor.

The trick with tripping breakers is to have that meeting BEFORE and let them figure out how to do it. Second is to accept that there are all kinds of crazy, stupid hidden things out there and that otherwise normal activities can trip a breaker. Breakers are almost a text book definition of hidden failures. They frequently don’t operate when they are supposed to or trip when they’re not supposed to. But 99.99% of the time they’re not doing either one whether working correctly or not. Someone once told me the operating life of a breaker is about 1 minute (opening and closing). At 5 cycles that’s about 720 cycles.

The one hand thing sounds good in theory except two things. Most guys that get shocked only get shocked on one hand. No matter which hand it hits, it still passes through the chest cavity on the way to either your feet or your other hand. Electricity passes through all paths proportional to their conductivity. If you think the one hand thing prevents fibrillation, think again. If you think it breaks a circuit, think again. And since they are NEVER tested and the membrane they use is so thin it’s penetrated by the time your boots are broken in you are kidding yourself to think EH boots do anything.

Second issue. Have you ever successfully worked live with one hand behind your back? Again that’s an engineer talking, or a safety professional that was so dangerous on the job that they transferred them to the safety department where they do less damage. 
So when you have a screwdriver in one hand to work the fastener, what secures the wire from moving and making contact with you or other equipment? With a meter exactly how are you going to touch both probes to something unless close together? If a cable is laying against something how do you get a current clamp around it? Ever try to zip tie something one handed? Ever hurt one hand and try to do any of this one handed? Even the guys I’ve met that are truly one handed are constantly using their arm or stump or whatever they have in various creative ways.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

paulengr said:


> Second issue. Have you ever successfully worked live with one hand behind your back? Again that’s an engineer talking, or a safety professional that was so dangerous on the job that they transferred them to the safety department where they do less damage.
> So when you have a screwdriver in one hand to work the fastener, what secures the wire from moving and making contact with you or other equipment? With a meter exactly how are you going to touch both probes to something unless close together? If a cable is laying against something how do you get a current clamp around it? Ever try to zip tie something one handed? Ever hurt one hand and try to do any of this one handed? Even the guys I’ve met that are truly one handed are constantly using their arm or stump or whatever they have in various creative ways.


Haha I have heard that one-handed warning for years, I thought it was just me 👍


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

I once was troubleshooting a live panel (with a meter and gloves on) when a H & S manager happened by. I saw him approach, waited for the inevitable interuption and getting none, continued working. A few minutes later, he reappeared with my supervisor and asked me to step away from the panel. He chastised me for working with both hands. I took off my gloves and handing them and my meter to him, asked him to show me how..... he disappeared. My supervisor bought the coffee at break...


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

splatz said:


> Haha I have heard that one-handed warning for years, I thought it was just me 👍


i usually put a glove on my left hand so that i can either handle the hot with it or shield my bare hand


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

The plant where I worked, we required all gloves to be tested and dated even new unused. If you don't inspect new unused gloves, how do you know when they are out of date?
LC


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

Lone Crapshooter: My first experience with supplied gloves was as you stated: tested every six months, used or new. It was initially faster and cheaper to purchase new ones than test old ones.
!


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

ValeoBill said:


> Lone Crapshooter: My first experience with supplied gloves was as you stated: tested every six months, used or new. It was initially faster and cheaper to purchase new ones than test old ones.
> !
> 
> 
> ...


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

joe-nwt said:


> I don't wear gloves at all until over 600V.


Same here.... and certainly not 120V. 120 will zap me about 3 times a year, and usually it is a stupid shared neutral... wouldn't happen if I would (After all these years) double check with my TicTracer... Maybe someday I will learn!


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

Mobius87 said:


> Man, I feel like I live in the wild west when I read these threads. POCO here will pull/set the meter with no PPE; and also climb on the roof, cut down the live line, hang it on the neighbors fence, and say call us when you're done.
> 
> Plus, *brushing your bare knuckles across the live bus* of that 120/240V resi panel is a cheap way to get a buzz in the morning. Who needs coffee?


And if you were like me, your rubber-soled boots didn't save you because you were holding onto the can with your other hand.


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

Mobius87 said:


> Plus, brushing your bare knuckles across the live bus of that 120/240V resi panel is a cheap way to get a buzz in the morning. Who needs coffee?


Many years ago I was working with an older electrician who checked the 240/ 120 stuff by raising his left foot off of the floor and touching what he wanted to check with the back of his ring finger knuckle. They assigned him a new apprentice and every time he did that he would say "Never do that. I'm isolated from ground and your not." Two months went by with the electrician conscientiously teaching the apprentice everything he could. One day we hear an anguished scream from the electric room with the open frame switchboard that we were preparing to replace was located. Everybody that heard ran in there and found the apprentice on the floor with the back of one knuckle burned. The electrician he'd been working with came in and screamed "I TOLD YOU NOT TO DO THAT!" The apprentice says"It's exactly what you do." the electrician lifts his right trouser leg to show that his right leg was plastic from the knee down. He says "Grenade, Vietnam, I find it a bit difficult to talk about. Next time I tell you not to do something just except that there are things that some guys aren't willing to share with the whole world. I told you that I was isolated from ground and you aren't. You should have just excepted that and not expect me to share the cause with you. Some things really are personal. As soon as he finished saying that I said "Welcome home brother." several of the rest of the crew followed suit. The younger guys looked at us kinda strange and so I said "It's a mutual respect thing. We didn't get any F*ing welcome home nor parades like the Iraq guys are getting now. We got called Baby Killers and similar Si*t. So just to show we understand were we've all been we welcome each other home. 

-- 
Tom Horne


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## hornetd (Oct 30, 2014)

Almost Retired said:


> i havent seen a meter flash, but i have been told by others and i sure believe it will


If you have any of those genuine antique T top meter bases in your area, and you cannot afford to leave it alone, then use full PPE or stop work. I have seen utility linemen turn off the main breakers and cut the loops at the pole before touching one of those dammed things. Some of the T top meter bases have been fitted with adapters to imitate a regular meter pan base. But if the adapter moves during the removal of the meter the arc will come from under the meter were the adapter fingers go into the T top meter base. It's not likely to kill you but when the doctor debrides the burn of the melted plastic from your synthetic shirt you WILL hate life. After 45 years of voluntary ambulance service I know were of I write. 

Tom Horne


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

hornetd said:


> Many years ago I was working with an older electrician who checked the 240/ 120 stuff by raising his left foot off of the floor and touching what he wanted to check with the back of his ring finger knuckle. They assigned him a new apprentice and every time he did that he would say "Never do that. I'm isolated from ground and your not." Two months went by with the electrician conscientiously teaching the apprentice everything he could. One day we hear an anguished scream from the electric room with the open frame switchboard that we were preparing to replace was located. Everybody that heard ran in there and found the apprentice on the floor with the back of one knuckle burned. The electrician he'd been working with came in and screamed "I TOLD YOU NOT TO DO THAT!" The apprentice says"It's exactly what you do." the electrician lifts his right trouser leg to show that his right leg was plastic from the knee down. He says "Grenade, Vietnam, I find it a bit difficult to talk about. Next time I tell you not to do something just except that there are things that some guys aren't willing to share with the whole world. I told you that I was isolated from ground and you aren't. You should have just excepted that and not expect me to share the cause with you. Some things really are personal. As soon as he finished saying that I said "Welcome home brother." several of the rest of the crew followed suit. The younger guys looked at us kinda strange and so I said "It's a mutual respect thing. We didn't get any F*ing welcome home nor parades like the Iraq guys are getting now. We got called Baby Killers and similar Si*t. So just to show we understand were we've all been we welcome each other home.
> 
> --
> Tom Horne


Choosing not to wear gloves is one thing, those that use bare hands for testing for voltage are in their own league and I'll leave it right there.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

hornetd said:


> Many years ago I was working with an older electrician who checked the 240/ 120 stuff by raising his left foot off of the floor and touching what he wanted to check with the back of his ring finger knuckle. They assigned him a new apprentice and every time he did that he would say "Never do that. I'm isolated from ground and your not." Two months went by with the electrician conscientiously teaching the apprentice everything he could. One day we hear an anguished scream from the electric room with the open frame switchboard that we were preparing to replace was located. Everybody that heard ran in there and found the apprentice on the floor with the back of one knuckle burned. The electrician he'd been working with came in and screamed "I TOLD YOU NOT TO DO THAT!" The apprentice says"It's exactly what you do." the electrician lifts his right trouser leg to show that his right leg was plastic from the knee down. He says "Grenade, Vietnam, I find it a bit difficult to talk about. Next time I tell you not to do something just except that there are things that some guys aren't willing to share with the whole world. I told you that I was isolated from ground and you aren't. You should have just excepted that and not expect me to share the cause with you. Some things really are personal. As soon as he finished saying that I said "Welcome home brother." several of the rest of the crew followed suit. The younger guys looked at us kinda strange and so I said *"It's a mutual respect thing. We didn't get any F*ing welcome home nor parades like the Iraq guys are getting now. We got called Baby Killers and similar Si*t. So just to show we understand were we've all been we welcome each other home.*
> 
> --
> Tom Horne


No one ever spit on me or called me a baby killer, but man oh man did I ever get evil glares from people in the airports.


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## Quickservice (Apr 23, 2020)

joe-nwt said:


> Choosing not to wear gloves is one thing, *those that use bare hands for testing *for voltage are in their own league and I'll leave it right there.


When I was in Venezuela working on a big project they gave me a (So Called) electrician as a helper, his name was Alfredo, and when I would go hunting for my TicTracer to test to see if a line was hot, he would always say "No, no, comprobaré si hay calor con el pulgar" or, "No, no, I will check to see if is hot with my thumb." Which is exactly what he did over and over duting the entire project!


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