# Cable/Phone grounding block



## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Hello all.

Forgive me if I've missed this code...

A fellow electrician friend of mine just called me and said that it has become code to install a grounding block on the ground wire while installing a new service? This block would be used to terminate ground wires from the cable/phone companies. I have had numerous services inspected recently and haven't heard about this.

Can someone fill me in on what he is talking about?

Thanks again guys!


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## wirenut71 (Dec 5, 2010)

Maybe this


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

See 250.94.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Yeah thats it!

So these are to be installed outside of the dwelling?


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

outside inside where ever. but it shall be there. 2008 NEC


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> Yeah thats it!
> 
> So these are to be installed outside of the dwelling?





It must be. In 2011 many changes have been made to this section.


250.94 Bonding for Other Systems. An intersystem bonding
termination for connecting intersystem bonding conductors
required for other systems shall be provided *external
to enclosures at the service equipment or metering
equipment enclosure and at the disconnecting means for
any additional buildings or structures.* The intersystem
bonding termination shall comply with the following:


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

leland said:


> outside inside where ever. but it shall be there. 2008 NEC




:no::no:


Well depending on your definition of service equipment I guess it could be inside.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> It must be. In 2011 many changes have been made to this section.


 
So if they are to be installed outside of the dwelling, what if the phone and cable grounds are terminated at the main panel location? Is that the problem of the electrician? I would think not


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> So if they are to be installed outside of the dwelling, what if the phone and cable grounds are terminated at the main panel location? Is that the problem of the electrician? I would think not




In 2011 they almost re wrote this section. Here is the rest of it....

(1) Be accessible for connection and inspection.
(2) Consist of a set of terminals with the capacity for connection
of not less than three intersystem bonding conductors.
(3) Not interfere with opening the enclosure for a service,
building or structure disconnecting means, or metering
equipment.
(4) At the service equipment, be securely mounted and
electrically connected to an enclosure for the service
equipment, to the meter enclosure, or to an exposed
nonflexible metallic service raceway, or be mounted at
one of these enclosures and be connected to the enclosure
or to the grounding electrode conductor with a
minimum 6 AWG copper conductor
(5) At the disconnecting means for a building or structure,
be securely mounted and electrically connected to the
metallic enclosure for the building or structure disconnecting
means, or be mounted at the disconnecting
means and be connected to the metallic enclosure or to
the grounding electrode conductor with a minimum 6
AWG copper conductor.
(6) The terminals shall be listed as grounding and bonding
equipment.
Exception: In existing buildings or structures where any of
the intersystem bonding and grounding electrode conductors
required by 770.100(B)(2), 800.100(B)(2), 810.21(F)(2),
820.100(B)(2), and 830.100(B)(2) exist, installation of the intersystem
bonding termination is not required. An accessible
means external to enclosures for connecting intersystem bonding
and grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted at
the service equipment and at the disconnecting means for any
additional buildings or structures by at least one of the following
means:

(1) Exposed nonflexible metallic raceways
(2) An exposed grounding electrode conductor
(3) Approved means for the external connection of a copper
or other corrosion-resistant bonding or grounding
electrode conductor to the grounded raceway or
equipment
Informational Note No. 1: A 6 AWG copper conductor
with one end bonded to the grounded nonflexible metallic
raceway or equipment and with 150 mm (6 in.) or more of
the other end made accessible on the outside wall is an
example of the approved means covered in 250.94, Exception
item (3).
Informational Note No. 2: See 770.100, 800.100, 810.21,
820.100, and 830.100 for intersystem bonding and grounding
requirements for conductive optical fiber cables, communications
circuits, radio and television equipment,
CATV circuits and network-powered broadband communications
systems, respectively.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Is the main panel considered part of the "service equipment" or are they referring to everything mounted on the outside of the dwelling?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> Is the main panel considered part of the "service equipment" or are they referring to everything mounted on the outside of the dwelling?


The service equipment is generally everything from the meter to the first disconnect.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> Is the main panel considered part of the "service equipment" or are they referring to everything mounted on the outside of the dwelling?




2011 helped clear up a lot of this. I've always seen them at the service outside here because the phone and cable guys run there stuff to the meter or outside panel anyway. Usually there is no place to make a connection on an inside panel anyway unless it is surface mounted or open.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> Is the main panel considered part of the "service equipment" or are they referring to everything mounted on the outside of the dwelling?




Service Equipment. The necessary equipment, usually consisting
of a circuit breaker(s) or switch(es) and fuse(s) and
their accessories, connected to the load end of service conductors
to a building or other structure, or an otherwise designated
area, and intended to constitute the main control and cutoff of
the supply.

I would say both.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

So if I mount of these outside, close to the meter socket and attach it to the bare copper going to the grounds rods, this would be compliant?

But, I've seen it a million times where the cable and phone guys attach their grounds on the inside of the dwelling onto one of the bare copper grounds before they enter the main panel. What would you do in this instance?


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Service Equipment. The necessary equipment, usually consisting
> of a circuit breaker(s) or switch(es) and fuse(s) and
> their accessories, connected to the load end of service conductors
> to a building or other structure, or an otherwise designated
> ...


 

So one could install one of them on the inside ot outside then?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

pghelectrician said:


> So one could install one of them on the inside ot outside then?


Generally we install them on the GEC that goes to the ground rod. In our case the meter is outside and the GEC comes from there. Many areas will not allow this so I assume it would be fine inside.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> So if I mount of these outside, close to the meter socket and attach it to the bare copper going to the grounds rods, this would be compliant?




Yes



pghelectrician said:


> But, I've seen it a million times where the cable and phone guys attach their grounds on the inside of the dwelling onto one of the bare copper grounds before they enter the main panel. What would you do in this instance?




I can't say I have ever saw the cable and phone anywhere here but on the outside or in the basement. IMO all you have to do is provide one. It does not have to be used.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Generally we install them on the GEC that goes to the ground rod. In our case the meter is outside and the GEC comes from there. Many areas will not allow this so I assume it would be fine inside.


 
More often than not, I see the com company's grounds inside near the main panel so it seems logical for me to install them there in these cases.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> I can't say I have ever saw the cable and phone anywhere here but on the outside. IMO all you have to do is provide one. It does not have to be used.


 
Ok, thats my main concern. As long as I provide one to pass an inspection, thats all I am concerned about.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

jwjrw said:


> :no::no:
> 
> 
> Well depending on your definition of service equipment I guess it could be inside.



Main panel with main breaker in the basement (typical for this area).
secured to a meter pan around here,frowned upon by the POCO.

(residential)


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> Ok, thats my main concern. As long as I provide one to pass an inspection, thats all I am concerned about.




:thumbsup: I provide it,don't care if 'they' use it.
I'm not running #6 any further than I need to.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

leland, where do you install your IBT's, inside or out?


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

pghelectrician said:


> leland, where do you install your IBT's, inside or out?



Inside right next to the panel (main breaker).
If I have a MB meter,outside or at that equipment location.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

leland said:


> Main panel with main breaker in the basement (typical for this area).
> secured to a meter pan around here,frowned upon by the POCO.
> 
> (residential)



I originally thought it had to be External...what it really said was external to the equipment. My bad.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

So what if there are existing grounds from the com companies, and they aren't long enough to all be terminated to the IBT? Is it out responsibility to extend their grounds?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> So what if there are existing grounds from the com companies, and they aren't long enough to all be terminated to the IBT? Is it out responsibility to extend their grounds?




Like I said in 2011 the almost rewrote that section. I posted it. Read the exceptions they now have. In 2008 IMO all you have to do is provide one.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Exception: In existing buildings or structures where any of
> the intersystem bonding and grounding electrode conductors
> required by 770.100(B)(2), 800.100(B)(2), 810.21(F)(2),
> 820.100(B)(2), and 830.100(B)(2) exist, installation of the intersystem
> bonding termination is not required.


 
Is this what you mean? Does that mean if there are existing ground clamps, etc. from the com companies, an IBT does not have to be installed at all? Sorry if I'm reading into this too much.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

pghelectrician said:


> Is this what you mean? Does that mean if there are existing ground clamps, etc. from the com companies, an IBT does not have to be installed at all? Sorry if I'm reading into this too much.



I would think it does mean that.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

That exception (IMO) means you don't have to add it.
Unless you do an upgrade,then you must install it.

In that case,have the HO call the respective providers to return and terminate their equipment ground.
I would not run their #10 to the panel location.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Ok that makes sense, I get it now.


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## pghelectrician (Jun 25, 2010)

Thanks again guys! I appreciate all of your help.


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

I put them in and out


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## bruce6670 (Apr 27, 2010)

BIGRED said:


> I put them in and out


I thought the GEC had to be bare. Maybe that's for the phone and is connected to the GEC out of the picture.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

bruce6670 said:


> I thought the GEC had to be bare. Maybe that's for the phone and is connected to the GEC out of the picture.


Nope. I don't care to look it up, but I recall it saying something like, "...may be insulated or bare, stranded or solid...".


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> Nope. I don't care to look it up, but I recall it saying something like, "...may be insulated or bare, stranded or solid...".


Correct, 250.62 is the reference.



> *
> 250.62 Grounding Electrode Conductor Material.​*​​​​The
> grounding electrode conductor shall be of copper, aluminum,
> or copper-clad aluminum. The material selected shall
> ...




Chris


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Damn. I don't really consider myself much of a code guy, but I nearly nailed the wording on that one. :blink:


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## donselec (May 7, 2011)

if you put it outside in the gr rod run you have to use #6. so #8 is out on a 100a service....so i put them inside cause i'm cheap....:laughing:


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