# Another Disappointing Product from Klein Tools



## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

I never liked the individual loose pages either. I like them in book style, bound at the top. Each page filled with one number or letter at a time. 

I think it was Ideal that made the ones I liked.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> I never liked the individual loose pages either. I like them in book style, bound at the top. Each page filled with one number or letter at a time.
> 
> I think it was Ideal that made the ones I liked.



Ideal or Brady maybe?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

flyboy said:


> I never liked the individual loose pages either. I like them in book style, bound at the top. Each page filled with one number or letter at a time.
> 
> I think it was Ideal that made the ones I liked.


I forget which brand but I don't like the loose leafs either, for ten bucks they could throw in a couple staples for me.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Ideal or Brady maybe?


You're right, I forgot about Bradly. Come to think about it, they were probably making them before Ideal.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

flyboy said:


> You're right, I forgot about Bradly. Come to think about it, they were probably making them before Ideal.


I've known them all my career as "Brady" markers. I think you are right on who made them first.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

joe-nwt said:


> I've known them all my career as "Brady" markers. I think you are right on who made them first.


In fact, that's how we referred to them, even it they weren't the Ideal brand. "Hey kid run out to the truck and get the Brady Markers".

Like we call tissues, Kleenex.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

The ones I hated were the 3M numbers in the red dispenser. They had paper backing.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> You're right, I forgot about Bradly. Come to think about it, they were probably making them before Ideal.



I always liked the Brady books of letters and numbers.


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

Why keep going back? Stop buying Klein stuff and you'll save yourself continual disappointment. I bought some Klein rabbit ear cutters about 3 years ago. I took them from the package, cut ONE #6 bare copper with it and the cutting edge rolled up like a beer can. I threw them as far as i could into the woods. I won't go back, even if everything I buy from now on says "Made in Shenzhen, Fu** America."


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

CoolWill said:


> Why keep going back? Stop buying Klein stuff and you'll save yourself continual disappointment. I bought some Klein rabbit ear cutters about 3 years ago. I took them from the package, cut ONE #6 bare copper with it and the cutting edge rolled up like a beer can. I threw them as far as i could into the woods. I won't go back, even if everything I buy from now on says "Made in Shenzhen, Fu** America."


I loaned mine to a co-worker once, even asked him "you ain't gonna cut any steel are you"? kinda half kidding. Of course he said "no". He was a fairly new dude, but I gave him the benefit. Come to find out he was cutting ACSR, not once, but a bunch of it. I ended up with a brand new one.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

A disappointing product from Klein? A poem, if I may:

Water is wet
The sky is blue
Grass is green
Cows go "moo"


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

MTW said:


> A disappointing product from Klein? A poem, if I may:
> 
> Water is wet
> The sky is blue
> ...


fify

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MTW said:


> A disappointing product from Klein? A poem, if I may:
> 
> Water is wet
> The sky is blue
> ...


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

MTW said:


> A disappointing product from Klein? A poem, if I may:
> 
> Water is wet
> The sky is blue
> ...


You’re getting so far out there that I can’t see you anymore with binoculars, I have to use a telescope.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

joebanana said:


> I loaned mine to a co-worker once, even asked him "you ain't gonna cut any steel are you"? kinda half kidding. Of course he said "no". He was a fairly new dude, but I gave him the benefit. Come to find out he was cutting ACSR, not once, but a bunch of it. I ended up with a brand new one.


That's why I had bought the 2000 series sidecutters when I was in the trade, so, I couldn't accidentally mess them up (20yrs ago).


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

CoolWill said:


> Why keep going back? Stop buying Klein stuff and you'll save yourself continual disappointment. I bought some Klein rabbit ear cutters about 3 years ago. I took them from the package, cut ONE #6 bare copper with it and the cutting edge rolled up like a beer can. I threw them as far as i could into the woods. I won't go back, even if everything I buy from now on says "Made in Shenzhen, Fu** America."



I bought Pittsburgh sockets from HF to use underwater, don't care if I lost one or busted one hammering on them or whatever.

Haven't lost one or broken one yet.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

flyboy said:


>


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

CoolWill said:


> Why keep going back? Stop buying Klein stuff and you'll save yourself continual disappointment. I bought some Klein rabbit ear cutters about 3 years ago. I took them from the package, cut ONE #6 bare copper with it and the cutting edge rolled up like a beer can. I threw them as far as i could into the woods. I won't go back, even if everything I buy from now on says "Made in Shenzhen, Fu** America."


I think I'm giving to start going Milwaukee hand tools a try, can't be any worse than Klein and they are cheaper. I already have the 6-in-1 wire strippers and love them, so I'm thinking the other stuff will be good too.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

MTW said:


> I think I'm giving to start going Milwaukee hand tools a try, can't be any worse than Klein and they are cheaper. I already have the 6-in-1 wire strippers and love them, so I'm thinking the other stuff will be good too.


Then all you'll need is someone to teach you how to use them. :vs_laugh:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MTW said:


> I think I'm giving to start going Milwaukee hand tools a try, can't be any worse than Klein and they are cheaper. I already have the 6-in-1 wire strippers and love them, so I'm thinking the other stuff will be good too.


You know you can have a top notch set of Channellock linemans made ferociously in the USA for less than those red handled red chinese?!? 

It will be a cold day in hell when I pay more for a pair of pliers made by a nine year old girl with a gun to her head.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

flyboy said:


> Then all you'll need is someone to teach you how to use them. :vs_laugh:



It definitely won't be you then. :no::no:


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

splatz said:


> You know you can have a top notch set of Channellock linemans made ferociously in the USA for less than those red handled red chinese?!?
> 
> It will be a cold day in hell when I pay more for a pair of pliers made by a nine year old girl with a gun to her head.



True, good point. I actually had the Channelocks in my hand (at the Depot ) the other day and they seem nice. I'd definitely try them.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Eewwww, label books. 







MechanicalDVR said:


> I bought Pittsburgh sockets from HF to use underwater, don't care if I lost one or busted one hammering on them or whatever.
> 
> Haven't lost one or broken one yet.



A lot of my 3/4" impact stuff is HF, won't die, keep trying but the china sockets live on.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MTW said:


> I think I'm giving to start going Milwaukee hand tools a try, can't be any worse than Klein and they are cheaper. I already have the 6-in-1 wire strippers and love them, so I'm thinking the other stuff will be good too.


Why Milwaukee? There are a lot of good brands out there.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Jlarson said:


> Eewwww, label books.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I should have said impact, 3/8", 1/2", & 3/4" drives they keep on trucking. 

Unless they get a deep scratch they don't get really rusty in saltwater either.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Why Milwaukee? There are a lot of good brands out there.


The few Milwaukee hand tools I've tried have been good so far.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> Why Milwaukee? There are a lot of good brands out there.


The few Milwaukee hand tools I've tried have been good so far.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Electricians stand with China.

Honestly we've tried sourcing products from US manufacturers. They wouldn't give us the time of day. China dominates amazon.

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

MTW said:


> The few Milwaukee hand tools I've tried have been good so far.






So good they are worth repeating?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I am not a Klein hater. I do not like that most of their new products, including some hand tools, are no longer made in USA. I do not like that they are branching into new types of products whoring their formerly good name with absolutely no regard for quality. See Klein - Horrible Freight - Same

I never got a bad set of pliers from Klein. I have Knipex lineman's that I bought when they were on clearance at Lowes. Their blades are not better than what's on my Kleins. Neither are perfect and I don't use those blades to cut screws any more, it's just silly. I have wire strippers that shear small screws perfectly, and anything bigger I cut with a saw. 

I must have missed the time when Klein screwdrivers were gone soft tipped but I believe it happened. But I bought a couple Klein screwdrivers a year or two ago and the tips have held up very well. 

I think the Klein testers etc. are an abomination. I don't like things like the drill-taps where they are made in China and obviously no different from the Harbor Freight or etc. that probably come off the same factory line and sell for one third the price. I don't like being gouged for a made in USA price for a tool made by communist prison labor. And by the way, Greenlee, **** you too. (They do the same thing with the drill-taps.) 

The new combination pliers Klein is making, those I like, I have one set. But I wouldn't buy one not made in USA. (Or Canada, or Germany, or Japan, or other nation on a level playing field.) 

Channellock products are and always have been great quality and made in USA, they have managed to be very price competitive, often lower than junky imports - easily the best value on the market - whatever I can buy from them, I will.


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## Mellow (Jul 14, 2018)

splatz said:


> I am not a Klein hater. I do not like that most of their new products, including some hand tools, are no longer made in USA. I do not like that they are branching into new types of products whoring their formerly good name with absolutely no regard for quality. See Klein - Horrible Freight - Same



Agreed 100%. Everywhere possible, they basically scream: "USA MADE", except- half the time they don't... and that leaves the other half of their stuff made in China. But we're supposed to ignore that somehow? 




splatz said:


> I have Knipex lineman's that I bought when they were on clearance at Lowes. Their blades are not better than what's on my Kleins.



I think you're being generous. The Knipex pliers I just started using after 2 pairs of brand new Kleins have been a dream come true. Like butter. Super sharp and super broken in out of the box. Knipex indeed make a better pair of pliers, and I'm all for buying USA. 





splatz said:


> I think the Klein testers etc. are an abomination. I don't like things like the drill-taps where they are made in China and obviously no different from the Harbor Freight or etc. that probably come off the same factory line and sell for one third the price. I don't like being gouged for a made in USA price for a tool made by communist prison labor. And by the way, Greenlee, **** you too. (They do the same thing with the drill-taps.)


 

Klein have their dirty mitts in too many bags. They are trying to be the "be all-end all" of electrician tools, and with no shame- which includes rebranding anything/everything possible. I recently saw an article on their circuit finder, which is also found at Harbor Freight for half the price. I think HF called it the "Circuit Detective"? It was the same exact tool. Same PCB and everything. Guess where it's made? Hint: not in the Klein factory... and not in the USA. 




splatz said:


> Channellock products are and always have been great quality and made in USA, they have managed to be very price competitive, often lower than junky imports - easily the best value on the market - whatever I can buy from them, I will.



Yeah, but they are birds of a feather. Tons of their stuff too is rebranded/made in China/Taiwan/Spain/etc. 



The difference is, their stuff is much less expensive- which is much less insulting.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Rebranding is gonna happen. Look at kleins folding hex wrench set. Its rebranded Bondhus, a quality US manufacturer. No real point in them reinventing the wheel. They'll do a better job selling them to mainstream consumers than obscure brand Bondhus.

The options to source from the US seem limited compared to China or other countries. The couple times we tried to get something manufactured here we were told our business wasn't large enough, and that they didn't want to sell to an amazon vendor. They didn't seem to understand how amazon works so not having a physical location was odd to them.

If you call up factories in China they understand what amazon requires. It's stupid easy. It's really sad because I've always made an effort to buy domestic, almost all of my clothes are made here. They're really attentive, they respond to email and instant messaging promptly, while here in the US, many of our phone calls and emails can go days without being answered, only to be told "No".

I'm sure if we can find the right product, at the right price, and the right manufacturer we can find success. But China is almost a one stop shop, that the only reason not to go their first is a futile sense of patriotism.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

TGGT said:


> Rebranding is gonna happen. Look at kleins folding hex wrench set. Its rebranded Bondhus, a quality US manufacturer. No real point in them reinventing the wheel. They'll do a better job selling them to mainstream consumers than obscure brand Bondhus.


Which one are you talking about?

Bondhus is actually my go-to brand for allen wrenches. My folding Klein allen keys that my father gave me are getting old. Still working, but I can see them snapping anytime. I want to pickup a new set, but I doubt anything made today would be the same. 

Either way, I am interested in which folding set you are talking about. Please show me.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Which on are you talking about?
> 
> Bondhus is actually my go-to brand for allen wrenches. My folding Klein allen keys that my father gave me are getting old. Still dolis, but I can see them snapping anytime. I want to pickup a new set, but I doubt anything made today would be the same.
> 
> Either way, I am interested in which folding set you are talking about. Please show me.


 Is Eklind still any good?
https://www.eklindtool.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Eklind-20911...ocphy=9018769&hvtargid=pla-568756950180&psc=1


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Bird dog said:


> Is Eklind still any good?
> https://www.eklindtool.com/
> https://www.amazon.com/Eklind-20911...ocphy=9018769&hvtargid=pla-568756950180&psc=1


Eklind is still good AFAIK, they seem to be in what hardware stores are left around here. So if I get caught without a set of hex wrenches I usually wind up buying a set of Eklinds and I have a bunch of them at home which pisses me off when I find myself without them when I need them but I still buy another set. Rather than take them home I stash them somewhere in or near the equipment I needed them because I sure as hell don't need any more at home.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Which one are you talking about?
> 
> Bondhus is actually my go-to brand for allen wrenches. My folding Klein allen keys that my father gave me are getting old. Still working, but I can see them snapping anytime. I want to pickup a new set, but I doubt anything made today would be the same.
> 
> Either way, I am interested in which folding set you are talking about. Please show me.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Grip-It-Hex-Set-70575/100549112

The plastic handle is just a rebrand of the bondhus gorilla grip.

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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I think that Chinese manufacturers are undeniably hungry but I think that US manufacturers are suffering a kind of learned helplessness. Of course most of the little guys that shop them will put them through the paces of bidding only to go with Chinese that undercut them thanks to history's best labor exploitation regime ever, plus no EPA, no OSHA, no DOL, no nothing, and even a weird loophole in the US postal service that subsidizes their shipping. Does the US manufacturer have any real chance of winning your business and doing the volumes that might ultimately make them a profit? Would you gamble with every Amazon seller that knocked on your door? 

In the meantime, beware, if the Chinese that you deal with like your product, and think they can make money with it, they'll just sell it on Amazon themselves, cutting you out, because they don't care about patents, IP, nondisclosure, noncompetes, etc. etc. 

I don't deny plain patriotism playing some part in why I try to buy made in USA, but really I don't think twice about buying made in Canada, Japan, South Korea, Israel, and most of Europe. I think these places generally treat labor fairly, have a somewhat level playing field as far as safety, environmental protection, etc., and are allies. 

I avoid China because I believe money spent enriching China enriches the oppressors there, and the power they are amassing will eventually be used against us. 

I also try to buy US to support it on principle; I think that manufacturing is essential to a strong long term economy, at least to a nation / economy the size of the U.S., and essential to our security. Less than 100 years ago, without their manufacturing, the Third Reich would have steamrolled Russia and eventually the US.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Rebranding is nothing new, Craftsman tools were all rebranded, Ideal tools are all rebranded (many Channellock) I don't really care how they divvy up the money, as long as it's made in USA and their taxes are paid in the USA.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

TGGT said:


> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Grip-It-Hex-Set-70575/100549112
> 
> The plastic handle is just a rebrand of the bondhus gorilla grip.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Oh, ok. I like the Klein folding metal handle allen key set up to 3/8", I thought that is what you meant.


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## Incognito (Apr 14, 2019)

Many items that say “made in the USA” are not actually made there. Designed maybe, but manufactured elsewhere. Or sometime they are made elsewhere but assembled in the USA. 
Not just Klein, they all do it, greenlee, ideal, channelock, rack-a-tiers......

It’s Too cheap for the manufacturers to ignore the savings when stuff is made overseas unfortunately.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Incognito said:


> It’s Too cheap for the manufacturers to ignore the savings when stuff is made overseas unfortunately.


Why should they? They are providing the customers what they want. If the customer wanted the product to be made in the USA, they would pay more for the product to be made here. But there is no market for that.

Very, very, very few people actually care about that. Most people only say that they do, but they never show it when spending.

The same guy who talks about only buying USA made products will walk right past the $45 USA product to pickup the $17 Chinese product when no one is looking.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Incognito said:


> Many items that say “made in the USA” are not actually made there. Designed maybe, but manufactured elsewhere. Or sometime they are made elsewhere but assembled in the USA.
> Not just Klein, they all do it, greenlee, ideal, channelock, rack-a-tiers......
> 
> It’s Too cheap for the manufacturers to ignore the savings when stuff is made overseas unfortunately.


That's true to some extent, but there are laws that govern what you can label "made in USA" - at least here in the USA. You'll see lots of products that say "assembled in USA" or "built in USA" or "designed in USA" and "made in China to US specifications and all kinds of other crap. But if it says "made in USA" in most cases a decent amount of the labor took place here; and in my opinion some is better than none. 

I like manufacturers like Milbank and Round House that post videos - you can see the product being produced, they don't buy the parts and slip in the hinge pins here, or sew the buttons on here, they really make it here.


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## Incognito (Apr 14, 2019)

HackWork said:


> Incognito said:
> 
> 
> > Itâ€™️s Too cheap for the manufacturers to ignore the savings when stuff is made overseas unfortunately.
> ...


I agree with that. If the demand is there it will always happen. I have heard of people complaining and returning a shirt they bought at the union hall because it was not Canadian made, and then drive away in their Kia to Walmart.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Trump says we don't need China but he is dead wrong. They literally manufacturer practically everything we consume now. As for tools, USA made is probably less than 5% overall. 

I'm not saying it's right or good, just stating the reality of it. We really can't stem this tide unless some serious barriers are taking down to bringing manufacturing back, which means getting the government out of the way. That ain't happening. :no:


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

MTW said:


> Trump says we don't need China but he is dead wrong. They literally manufacturer practically everything we consume now. As for tools, USA made is probably less than 5% overall.
> 
> I'm not saying it's right or good, just stating the reality of it. We really can't stem this tide unless some serious barriers are taking down to bringing manufacturing back, which means getting the government out of the way. That ain't happening. :no:


If the trade war continues, companies will move supply chains to other Asian countries. China loses & we win. I hope China falls like the USSR.


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## Mellow (Jul 14, 2018)

When everything made in the USA costs the consumer double/triple/quadruple what is being made in China, it then becomes a tough sell for anyone. 



What bothers me with the rebranding is when Klein is selling their "Made in the USA" shtick left and right, when many of their products are indeed Chinese. The worst part is you don't pay any less for it being Chinese- the consumer still pays a premium for the "Klein Made in USA" name, yet the product is made in China. That's BS. 



Channellock is guilty of the same, and I'm sure many other "Made in the USA" companies are as well.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Bird dog said:


> If the trade war continues, companies will move supply chains to other Asian countries. China loses & we win. I hope China falls like the USSR.


China still won't lose. They've been moving a lot of their own manufacturing to Vietnam, and have even created supply chains that route goods through nearby countries to avoid undermine bans. Honey from China has been banned and they just have it shipped to Vietnam so it says made in Vietnam. https://www.beeculture.com/catch-buzz-chinese-honey-illegally-imported-labeled-vietnam/

I think cutting our dependence on Chinese trade will require more government intervention, not less. It's government intervention that's causing the tariffs, it will take more to win the trade war.

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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

TGGT said:


> China still won't lose. They've been moving a lot of their own manufacturing to Vietnam, and have even created supply chains that route goods through nearby countries to avoid undermine bans. Honey from China has been banned and they just have it shipped to Vietnam so it says made in Vietnam. https://www.beeculture.com/catch-buzz-chinese-honey-illegally-imported-labeled-vietnam/
> 
> I think cutting our dependence on Chinese trade will require more government intervention, not less. It's government intervention that's causing the tariffs, it will take more to win the trade war.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Interesting. They did the same with Canada & Mexico for years.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

splatz said:


> I think that Chinese manufacturers are undeniably hungry but I think that US manufacturers are suffering a kind of learned helplessness. Of course most of the little guys that shop them will put them through the paces of bidding only to go with Chinese that undercut them thanks to history's best labor exploitation regime ever, plus no EPA, no OSHA, no DOL, no nothing, and even a weird loophole in the US postal service that subsidizes their shipping. Does the US manufacturer have any real chance of winning your business and doing the volumes that might ultimately make them a profit? Would you gamble with every Amazon seller that knocked on your door?
> 
> In the meantime, beware, if the Chinese that you deal with like your product, and think they can make money with it, they'll just sell it on Amazon themselves, cutting you out, because they don't care about patents, IP, nondisclosure, noncompetes, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


The products we sell are just widgets. Nothing of real value and simple enough to abandon if they don't earn their keep.

It's a problem with our system as a whole. I would love it if we had such a robust and dynamic manufacturing industry that a small business like ours could keep it all here. But like you, we are at the mercy of the system as it is.

When your competitors are all sourcing from China, and have identical quality at a lower price it's just time to quit. Selling on Amazon is not easy, you need to sell X amount for X days to get to first page. Bad reviews hurt sales. There is a niche for US made goods, there are people willing to pay more, but it has to be the right product.

I'd like to dig deeper into why US manufacturers aren't interested in working with small US businesses because we're clearly not an appealing customer to them.

I think we need some protectionist policies, but it has to be more than just tariffs, the domestic economy needs to change, and it needs time to change or else we're just hurting ourselves. All else being the same we are going to lose the trade war. China can wait out Trump and I suspect that is what they are doing dragging their feet on negotiations. 

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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

splatz said:


> That's true to some extent, but there are laws that govern what you can label "made in USA" - at least here in the USA. You'll see lots of products that say "assembled in USA" or "built in USA" or "designed in USA" and "made in China to US specifications and all kinds of other crap. But if it says "made in USA" in most cases a decent amount of the labor took place here; and in my opinion some is better than none.
> 
> I like manufacturers like Milbank and Round House that post videos - you can see the product being produced, they don't buy the parts and slip in the hinge pins here, or sew the buttons on here, they really make it here.


BIngo!

Made in USA really means made in USA.

If it's assembled (in USA) from imported components -- it HAS to say so.

You'll run into such wording all the time -- if you bother to look.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

TGGT said:


> China still won't lose. They've been moving a lot of their own manufacturing to Vietnam, and have even created supply chains that route goods through nearby countries to avoid undermine bans. Honey from China has been banned and they just have it shipped to Vietnam so it says made in Vietnam. https://www.beeculture.com/catch-buzz-chinese-honey-illegally-imported-labeled-vietnam/
> 
> I think cutting our dependence on Chinese trade will require more government intervention, not less. It's government intervention that's causing the tariffs, it will take more to win the trade war.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Then you missed it. Such deals are ENTIRELY contrary to Red Chinese political policy.

They REALLY want such manufactures to happen within Red China.

Priority #1 -- keep the natives happy with full employment.

That does NOT work with Vietnam punching out the exports previously of Red China.

As a result of Trump's tariffs -- things have NEVER looked better for Hanoi.

Business is rocking!


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

splatz said:


> That's true to some extent, but there are laws that govern what you can label "made in USA" - at least here in the USA. You'll see lots of products that say "assembled in USA" or "built in USA" or "designed in USA" and "made in China to US specifications and all kinds of other crap. But if it says "made in USA" in most cases a decent amount of the labor took place here; and in my opinion some is better than none.
> 
> I like manufacturers like Milbank and Round House that post videos - you can see the product being produced, they don't buy the parts and slip in the hinge pins here, or sew the buttons on here, they really make it here.





telsa said:


> BIngo!
> 
> Made in USA really means made in USA.
> 
> ...



Yes... but... A lot of the USA labor is done by individuals that were pushing an ox cart in Central America a few weeks before they were hired at the Klein factory. Just because something is "Made in America" doesn't mean it was made BY Americans. At least with my Taiwanese Milwaukee pliers, I know they were made by an honest-to-God Taiwanese.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Imported 'talent' is used to harvest chickens -- not assemble tools.

Slapping together a side cutter is NOT done by yesterday's immigrants.

There is just not that much labor content, BTW.

Traditionally, immigrants are employed by slaughterhouses.

Read "The Jungle" by Sinclair Lewis.

It's an eye-opener. 

It's the reason for the FDA, BTW.

Yes, ONE book triggered Congress to enact the FDA.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Expecting Klein to make good tools is like expecting Peter D to get a woman in his lifetime.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Read it on an empty stomach, BTW.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Peter D -- is that pron name de performance ?


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

telsa said:


> Imported 'talent' is used to harvest chickens -- not assemble tools.
> 
> Slapping together a side cutter is NOT done by yesterday's immigrants.
> 
> ...





Uh huh. That's why there was a Spanish speaking guide on the factory tour I had a few years ago: All that Midwestern english.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Those workers are just one of many hands that touch the product on the way to your house. The majority will be US citizens.

I've wondered if it wouldn't be easier to figure out how to make my own widgets than depend on others.

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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

TGGT said:


> I've wondered if it wouldn't be easier to figure out how to make my own widgets than depend on others.


Have you really wondered that?

Do you really want to come home from work and have to work to make your basic stuff? I'd MUCH rather buy cheap Chinese stuff while sitting on my ass. :biggrin:


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Have you really wondered that?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to come home from work and have to work to make your basic stuff? I'd MUCH rather buy cheap Chinese stuff while sitting on my ass. [emoji3]


Yes I've wondered what these factories look like that can churn out prototypes then switch to production within a few weeks time after a few emails. Robots are only good for repetitive tasks, human labor is way more flexible, and they got us beat with labor costs.

I have my doubts that these factories could even exist in the US. China has some serious pollution problems.

I didn't mean be self sufficient prepper like, I meant what would it take to start a factory.
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## zac (May 11, 2009)

TGGT said:


> Yes I've wondered what these factories look like that can churn out prototypes then switch to production within a few weeks time after a few emails. Robots are only good for repetitive tasks, human labor is way more flexible, and they got us beat with labor costs.
> 
> I have my doubts that these factories could even exist in the US. China has some serious pollution problems.
> 
> ...


You're just wired differently and that's fine. 
We all have different gifts and drives, otherwise we'd all be the same. 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

TGGT said:


> I didn't mean be self sufficient prepper like, I meant what would it take to start a factory.


Ok, I thought you meant you were going to come home from work and make your own cloths, and transistor radio, and whittle your utensils out of wood, etc. :vs_laugh:


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

@TGGT, same here - I am very curious what the factories look like in China, the small production runs in particular. I have a feeling it's more because the Chinese job shops network effectively. 

I have a friend with a small machine shop. If someone comes to him to make something, he might make it in house - he has a fair bit of equipment - but he might also sub it out to someone with the right machines. He knows what the equipment is needed to make things efficiently and who has that equipment. (He just deals with metal - he wouldn't know who to go to for a PCB or for textiles etc.) 

I have spoken to people that have worked with Chinese manufacturing for more complicated products. I just spoke to one a couple months ago who is trying to make low cost stepper motors and linear actuators in China. He had me laughing hard about the **** show involved getting things done in China comes to. Bottom line, he learned that he wasn't going to change the Chinese, he was going to have to figure out how to impose some kind of quality control here once he had actual control. 

We'll see whether he winds up making money. I think he's overlooked that once they can make them, they'll be selling his designs as knockoffs on Amazon alibaba and eBay. In my case, it just wasn't worth screwing around to save a few hundred dollars in a project, I enjoyed talking to him and went and bought a quality product.


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