# Laid off for nearly 2 years



## user4818

I have a friend (no comments about me having friends, please) who has a close relative who is in the IBEW and has been laid off for nearly 2 years. I was told that this electrician is now #45 on the book and may see employment again soon. 

The jurisdiction is Local 99 which covers all of Rhode Island. The economy has been extremely bad in RI for the last year and hasn't showed many signs of improvement. 

So, has anyone else heard of, or experienced a 2-year layoff?


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## nolabama

If it where me - I would be number 45 and get a 24 day gig and go back to the bench for two more years.... This economy sucks donkey kong


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## Speedy Petey

I know how things can get with Peter and many of his replies, but let's try to keep this thread on track for once. Please.


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## Grimlock




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## 480sparky

Most people I know would promptly find other work rather than sit around watching Judge Judy every day at 4PM.


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## user4818

480sparky said:


> Most people I know would promptly find other work rather than sit around watching Judge Judy every day at 4PM.


Those union guys are out doing side work or working for a non-union contractor, but that's another issue entirely. I'm more interested if anyone else has experienced such a long layoff.


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## slickvic277

I have a few friends that lost that much time in the early 90's.One of the better foreman I have worked for was out 28 months straight back then.
I also know a few older JW who have retired in the past couple of years who said the 70's were also very bad for work.
One of our Apprentice instructors who is a very smart guy(has a B.A. in electrical eng.)said he was number 896 on the list back in the early 90's,lost almost two years.Things have been very good here for about 12 years now,we had full employment for at least the last 7 or 8 years but times are changing and work is getting slow.We are not at the numbers of the early 90's but things will probably be really slow for quite some time.

When the bubble burst a lot of big time projects that were slated to go got canceled and some other things got down sized.My local has been floating around 10% unemployment for awhile now but I think that number has increased a bit in the last month or so.Hopefully things pick up sooner rather then latter.


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## william1978

No, I got laid off last year on 6/30/09 and went to work for someone else on 7/1/09. A 2 year lay off would drive me up the wall.


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## B4T

Just so I understand how this works.. a guy gets laid off from work and collects unemployment insurance till it runs out.

He is not allowed to work in a non-union shop even if it means he loses his house, car, and wife from having no income.

He is suppose to stay loyal to the UNION for (2) years?? :blink:


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## 480sparky

Black4Truck said:


> Just so I understand how this works.. a guy gets laid off from work and collects unemployment insurance till it runs out.
> 
> He is not allowed to work in a non-union shop even if it means he loses his house, car, and wife from having no income.
> 
> He is suppose to stay loyal to the UNION for (2) years?? :blink:


You forgot having his kids taken away...:whistling2:


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> Just so I understand how this works.. a guy gets laid off from work and collects unemployment insurance till it runs out.
> 
> He is not allowed to work in a non-union shop even if it means he loses his house, car, and wife from having no income.
> 
> He is suppose to stay loyal to the UNION for (2) years?? :blink:


They do side work and work for non-union contractors. That's pretty much what happens. All while collecting unemployment.


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## NolaTigaBait

Peter D said:


> They do side work and work for non-union contractors. That's pretty much what happens. All while collecting unemployment.


Thats what my friend does. He's a union plumber and he works non union under the table and collects unemployment.


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## nolabama

Peter D said:


> They do side work and work for non-union contractors. That's pretty much what happens. All while collecting unemployment.


Which is great till the side work runs out


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## 480sparky

NolaTigaBait said:


> Thats what my friend does. He's a union plumber and he works non union under the table and collects unemployment.


 
That _can't_ be right. Being "A Brother" means you will automatically take the moral high ground. "A Brother" would never ever ever even _think_ about cheating the system. "A Brother", if he did perform 'side work', would faithfully report said income so it could be deducted from his unemployment.

That just cannot be right. "Brothers" don't do that. Ever.


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## Charlie K

The last time I was layed off was in 1981 and I was out for 14 months. I sold and delivered firewood in the fall. Did home improvements during the winter for some neighbors. My Uncle bought some greenhouses and we built them and planted thousands of tomato and vegetable plants. In the spring and summer I worked for a marketing co. that set up displays in grocery stores. More firewood in the fall. If you want to hustle some money the oppurtunity is there. My son is currently layed off and he cooks at a resturaunt a couple of days a week as well as shucking oysters for seafood events. He loves it.

Charlie


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## B4T

We are RAT SHOPS till a "brother" needs a pay check.. then we are "good guys" to have around.


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> We are RAT SHOPS till a "brother" needs a pay check.. then we are "good guys" to have around.



The hypocrisy speaks for itself. Though, I would point out that not every member of the IBEW is brainwashed by the union mentality. They're just in it for good pay and benefits. I can't fault them for that. And I'm sure any union electricians who do side work or work for a non-union shop to pay his bills doesn't go around calling non-union workers rats. That would be hysterical if they did.


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## 480jc

I've been out of my apprenticeship for a year and a half and I'm now working on a long term job(probably another 1 1/2 years hopefully) but I was out for 6 months before I got this one....and I took a shot, it came out as a 3 week call...I was close to losing a pension credit for this year had I not taken it...first time I've been out...first time on the list...I can't say I like the way my referral list is being run right now...but, I'm not running the local...I'm just another joe on the bus, trying to make my mortgage payments before my bank takes my house away...


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## captkirk

Two years....! Thats kind of like not getting the hint when your girlfriend tells you "no I like you....but I just think we should see other people"


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## DipsyDoodleDandy

*Real Life*

I wonder if that would work in real life. Say..tell all your girlfriends or mistress's to just hang loose for a while...your number 45. Just chill ..I'll call you when I need you. I would call that a player in reality Union =Player ??


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## user4818

It seemed like only yesterday that local 99 was desperately underhanded and was putting to work travelers from all over the place. How times have changed!


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## B4T

Peter D said:


> It seemed like only yesterday that local 99 was desperately underhanded and was putting to work travelers from all over the place. How times have changed!


Pete.. did you ever try to get into the UNION??


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## user4818

Black4Truck said:


> Pete.. did you ever try to get into the UNION??


I was offered a few opportunities but I never took them.


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## oldman

spoke to a good friend today, he went on the books as #340...14 months later he is #120....

he figures it's a good 8-10 months until he gets a call...so yeah, about 2 yrs...

btw - he is a tremendous JW...


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## rlc3854

Hopefully no one here really believes that the majority of out of work union electricians just sit around waiting for two years

Most people have other skills that are tangible during these times just like the folks here. Photographers, re modelers, chefs, animal trainers/keepers what ever. Most of the union electricians I have known seem to know how to manage their finances better than most non-union electricians. But, as said before people are people.


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## miller_elex

captkirk said:


> Two years....! Thats kind of like not getting the hint when your girlfriend tells you "no I like you....but I just think we should see other people"


She better be one hell of a babe, and into women as well...

I think if you're going to make it in the union long-term, getting your balls stepped on, should not keep you awake at night. 

There is something emasculating about knowing that if you rock the contractor's boat, and get a lay-off, its going to be a looooong time sitting on your butt, and then you have to prove yourself all over again, prove that you are better than the next ten johns.

Its a love / hate kind of thing.


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## user4818

rlc3854 said:


> Hopefully no one here really believes that the majority of out of work union electricians just sit around waiting for two years



I never said it was the majority. I was wondering, given that we're living in unusual times, if anyone else has experienced the same thing.

Oldman has his finger on the pulse of the IBEW in his area, so if he's saying others have experienced the same thing, then it's not just a local problem.


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## Rudeboy

480sparky said:


> Most people I know would promptly find other work rather than sit around watching Judge Judy every day at 4PM.


Yeah, after two weeks. Two years? I'd be pulling my full head of hair out.


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## brian john

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

*RIGHT ON*



Charlie K said:


> The last time I was layed off was in 1981 and I was out for 14 months. I sold and delivered firewood in the fall. Did home improvements during the winter for some neighbors. My Uncle bought some greenhouses and we built them and planted thousands of tomato and vegetable plants. In the spring and summer I worked for a marketing co. that set up displays in grocery stores. More firewood in the fall. If you want to hustle some money the oppurtunity is there. My son is currently layed off and he cooks at a resturaunt a couple of days a week as well as shucking oysters for seafood events. He loves it.
> 
> Charlie


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## boulengerina

When it gets slow, my Local has absolutely NO QUALMS with signing a member up on a "salting" agreement, and helping him/her find a non-Union job. All the Local asks is that they go and do their VERY BEST, and keep their affiliations a secret until they are on their way out the door. We try to make GOOD impressions on the non-Union shops, and it works.

No man should be so asinine as to sit around and wait that long, unless there is a MAJOR RECESSION UNDERWAY, and there is simply NOTHING to do. But in my experience, there is ALWAYS something to do, like shuck oysters or sell firewood. 

I have never seen a man sit on the bench for that long, but I live in the South, and I know that things are different elsewhere. Here, good electricians (ie: REAL JW's) almost NEVER get laid off. But there again, we have been blessed with economic growth for the last 50 years. Has this guy never heard of traveling? It's a little late now to go run around the country signing books, but ten months ago, it would have been a really good idea.


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## user4818

boulengerina said:


> No man should be so asinine as to sit around and wait that long, unless there is a MAJOR RECESSION UNDERWAY, and there is simply NOTHING to do. But in my experience, there is ALWAYS something to do, like shuck oysters or sell firewood.


As I said they are not "sitting around" doing nothing. But they are sitting around waiting to go back to work for the IBEW. What are they supposed to do? Leave the IBEW and come back later? I've been told it doesn't work that way. :no:


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## boulengerina

Peter D said:


> As I said they are not "sitting around" doing nothing. But they are sitting around waiting to go back to work for the IBEW. What are they supposed to do? Leave the IBEW and come back later? I've been told it doesn't work that way. :no:


Will 99 not allow them to sign a salting agreement? Or is there no open shop work either? A salting agreement protects a member's pension (and in some Locals, BENEFITS), and allows them to work non-Union. This can be tricky, as there are very radical Locals in this country that expect salts to go out and do everything they can to ruin an open shop's job, and I would NEVER encourage that, and would likely move my ticket (or run against the BA) from a Local that practices such baloney.

And what about traveling? 379 in Charlotte, NC is way into book 2. Too late to come sign now, though, as the job is manned-up and running. We have something like 270 on book 2 last I checked (more than ever before).

2 years does not sound typical at all, to answer your original question, but there is nothing typical about Rhode Island, either. Small state, limited market, and only one Local. Not typical at all. Considering that this person you are referring to apparently was laid off about the time we realized we were in a recession (as we still are), it may be apropos. If this person was a member of my Local, it would surely mean that he/she was one of those "JW on the ticket, but not on the job" people.


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## manchestersparky

I was told that around the Baltimore / DC area the "bench time" is expected to be at least 18 months, but this is not from first hand knowledge. Any body from Local 24 or 26 what to pipe in ?

The entire issue of salting is a real bad topic . Sounds like to me the IBEW is saying : we can't get you any work so just go work NON Union BUT don't tell them your union. Try to recruit as many as you can,BUT don't tell them your union. Disrupt the company to the best of your ability then tell them your UNION and LEAVE. I have experienced the effects of union salts out of local 24. It was not pleasent either


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## user4818

boulengerina said:


> Will 99 not allow them to sign a salting agreement? Or is there no open shop work either?


I don't know about salting. I do know that non-union shops are faced with the same poor market that the union shops are. I know the non-union shops are calling back their laid off workers before they take on someone new, and with the way things have been lately, they aren't hiring new employees. 



> And what about traveling? 379 in Charlotte, NC is way into book 2. Too late to come sign now, though, as the job is manned-up and running. We have something like 270 on book 2 last I checked (more than ever before).


No doubt some are traveling. The rate for local 99 is $34 an hour. I can imagine going to NC would be quite a pay cut. 



> 2 years does not sound typical at all, to answer your original question, but there is nothing typical about Rhode Island, either. Small state, limited market, and only one Local. Not typical at all. Considering that this person you are referring to apparently was laid off about the time we realized we were in a recession (as we still are), it may be apropos. If this person was a member of my Local, it would surely mean that he/she was one of those "JW on the ticket, but not on the job" people.


The economy in New England is poor to say the least. Unemployment in RI is nearly 13% which is the second highest in the nation after only Michigan. I know that there is very little new commercial and industrial work going on at the moment, hence why the IBEW is struggling. They are victims of the market as you pointed out.


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## boulengerina

manchestersparky said:


> The entire issue of salting is a real bad topic . Sounds like to me the IBEW is saying : we can't get you any work so just go work NON Union BUT don't tell them your union. Try to recruit as many as you can,BUT don't tell them your union. Disrupt the company to the best of your ability then tell them your UNION and LEAVE. I have experienced the effects of union salts out of local 24. It was not pleasent either


No, the IBEW is saying "go ahead and keep your house, car, lifestyle, and feed your kids while you're at it". 

And as far as recruiting goes... maybe the contractor! But if the salt can't get a Union job, and is a good electrician, then chances are recruiting manpower is not the goal. And any salt that is there to disrupt the business of the contractor just may be a terrorist of sorts. The IBEW needs friends, and you don't win friends by screwing up their finances. I know this crap goes on, but I hate it. 24 might be doing better if they changed the way they approach a non-Union contractor!


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## boulengerina

Peter D said:


> No doubt some are traveling. The rate for local 99 is $34 an hour. I can imagine going to NC would be quite a pay cut.


Pay cut, yes... but to keep your house or feed your kids, it's worth it. Some of the "brothers" I have met look down their noses at us in the South, as our wages are decidedly much less than up North. But I would MUCH rather work 12 months out of the year for $21.40 (+ $8.00 in benefits), than work 6 months at $34, or even $40. I guess it's a matter of swallowing pride. The attitude of "I don't work for less than my Local's scale" is rife with false pride and entitlement issues, and many of those guys are going hungry right now. And I'm not saying that your friend fits this profile, but he/she might... I don't know. But ANY work is better than NO work, I would think.


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## JayH

Employment in construction fell by 53,000 in December, while manufacturing jobs fell by 27,000. 

Looks like it won't be getting any better this quarter.


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## boulengerina

JayH said:


> Employment in construction fell by 53,000 in December, while manufacturing jobs fell by 27,000.
> 
> Looks like it won't be getting any better this quarter.


Losing 80,000 jobs is still better than losing 380,000 jobs. Maybe we gettin' close to the bottom! Or are we there already?


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## JayH

The problem is that unemployment as calculated by the government is not reality.

We lose jobs but employment remains steady because they quit counting people who have exhausted all benefits and no longer appear to be looking for work.

With no manufacturing base to stimulate growth we are in deep trouble because we are overbuilt on commercial and residential.

Only new green technology is expanding but they cannot provide enough of a stimulus for all the unemployed construction workers.


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## boulengerina

JayH said:


> The problem is that unemployment as calculated by the government is not reality.
> 
> We lose jobs but employment remains steady because they quit counting people who have exhausted all benefits and no longer appear to be looking for work.
> 
> With no manufacturing base to stimulate growth we are in deep trouble because we are overbuilt on commercial and residential.
> 
> Only new green technology is expanding but they cannot provide enough of a stimulus for all the unemployed construction workers.



You are exactly right, Jay. The REAL unemployment/underemployment numbers are more like 17-19% nationwide. Scary.


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## rlc3854

JayH said:


> The problem is that unemployment as calculated by the government is not reality.
> 
> We lose jobs but employment remains steady because they quit counting people who have exhausted all benefits and no longer appear to be looking for work.
> 
> With no manufacturing base to stimulate growth we are in deep trouble because we are overbuilt on commercial and residential.
> 
> Only new green technology is expanding but they cannot provide enough of a stimulus for all the unemployed construction workers.


JayH, so true. As someone who completed an apprenticeship in 1975 an turned out to unemployment (remember the oil embargo). Went in to the Navy and got out in 1979 just to see things not turning around yet. Went back to LU 441 and then 440 which neither was looking to bring anyone in. As I started to get hot the BA at 441 just started looking around the hall at all the chairs filled with guys out of work. I was young but I got the picture. Interest rates were heading to the clouds just like now, got a few non union jobs in construction but things were slow to start back up.

It didn't even seem to matter if you had a degree as the aerospace industry was laying off everyone, steel plants were closing and cars were getting smaller to keep pace with the foreign car manufactures low prices and better gas mileage.

Things did get better as they will now but, it took about five years then and things now seem to be worse than they were back then.


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## JayH

rlc3854 said:


> Interest rates were heading to the clouds just like now,


Interest rates are really not a problem right now.

The Fed is lending at 0% to .25%.

One of our problems is banks are not lending. Banks received 700B in loans from the US government on the *assumption *they would lend to the market to stimulate the economy.

They have no intentions of doing that right now.

In the meantime, the loan the government took out to help out these poor slobs continues to accrue interest to foreign governments.

Bad management from the top down.


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## manchestersparky

Whats scary is that of those jobs lost - not all of them are going to come back. How many manufacturing companies have moved those jobs overseas or below the border ?


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## Charlie K

manchestersparky said:


> I was told that around the Baltimore / DC area the "bench time" is expected to be at least 18 months, but this is not from first hand knowledge. Any body from Local 24 or 26 what to pipe in ?
> 
> The entire issue of salting is a real bad topic . Sounds like to me the IBEW is saying : we can't get you any work so just go work NON Union BUT don't tell them your union. Try to recruit as many as you can,BUT don't tell them your union. Disrupt the company to the best of your ability then tell them your UNION and LEAVE. I have experienced the effects of union salts out of local 24. It was not pleasent either


Not sure where you heard 18 months for 24. Some nice jobs getting ready in 24's area. The company I work for will be adding 20 men later in the spring. We have a couple of jobs in 26's area ready to break. 

Charlie


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## brian john

JayH said:


> The problem is that unemployment as calculated by the government is not reality.
> .


They do not want the truth out there, neither party and Big "O" and his side kick Joe told us in November they had created jobs.


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## B4T

brian john said:


> They do not want the truth out there, neither party and Big "O" and his side kick Joe told us in November they had created jobs.


They are now creating "green jobs" to stimulate the economy


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## brian john

Black4Truck said:


> They are now creating "green jobs" to stimulate the economy


Yeah the unemployed are GREEN with envy at the ones working.

For me I would need to do something, just sitting around would not only drive me nuts but also make it too easy to say AHHHHH I'll look tomorrow and continue to sit, eating bon bons and watching Oprah.


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## BuzzKill

JayH said:


> The problem is that unemployment as calculated by the government is not reality.


Indeed, the actual figure is around 15%; they don't include people who quit looking and such...


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## B4T

BuzzKill said:


> Indeed, the actual figure is around 15%; they don't include people who quit looking and such...


Or the millions who's benefits have run out


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## brian john

manchestersparky said:


> Whats scary is that of those jobs lost - not all of them are going to come back. How many manufacturing companies have moved those jobs overseas or below the border ?


But in past recessions lost jobs were replaced with jobs with different skill sets. No guarantees this will happen this time but one can only look at history and hope.


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## miller_elex

brian john said:


> But in past recessions lost jobs were replaced with jobs with different skill sets. No guarantees this will happen this time but one can only look at history and hope.


What new skills are left? IT is played out, so is residential construction, logging, mining, manufacturing is all gone to mexico and china. The way I see it, the next big push is in hospitality, for all the geezers. How is that going to work with a baby-boomer wiping a baby-boomer's butt? WTF is wrong with America?? (rhetorical question, don't answer)


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## brian john

miller_elex said:


> What new skills are left? IT is played out, so is residential construction, logging, mining, manufacturing is all gone to mexico and china. The way I see it, the next big push is in hospitality, for all the geezers. How is that going to work with a baby-boomer wiping a baby-boomer's butt? WTF is wrong with America?? (rhetorical question, don't answer)




Yeah I remember back in 1903 the buggy makers were saying the same thing as Henry put them out of business, the smart ones morphed into chassis fabricators. Point is I do not know what the future holds and neither do you (DO YOU? if so let's go to the track, PLEASE TAKE ME)

As for WTF is wrong with America, in lieu of telling everyone to keep going the government subsidizes everyone with massive give aways, making for a basically lazy population.

Stand on your own or fail. Business and individuals.


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## onekoolspark

I have been off for 25 months now. I have worked out of local 191 Everett, WA and local 309 Collinsville, IL. I am out of local 58 Detroit , MI married with kids. There is work out there if you go and sign books if you are willing to travel. It is going to take time to get a job, but you will. As for the union brothers working rat while laid off they should be brought up on charges IMO. Feeding your family comes first ALWAYS, working on the road has its advantages and disadvantages and allows you to see and do more than you may at home.


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## oldman

Just heard Local #102 is predicting work to pick up in 2015. No kidding.


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## slickvic277

oldman said:


> Just heard Local #102 is predicting work to pick up in 2015. No kidding.


What the hell is going on up there?2015,that's crazy!Were expecting to come damn close to clearing the book this year but I don't believe that trend will last long.We have work starting later this month.To bad not enough to put some travelers to work.Good luck.


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## slickvic277

brian john said:


> Yeah I remember back in 1903 the buggy makers were saying the same thing as Henry put them out of business, the smart ones morphed into chassis fabricators. Point is I do not know what the future holds and neither do you (DO YOU? if so let's go to the track, PLEASE TAKE ME)
> 
> As for WTF is wrong with America, in lieu of telling everyone to keep going the government subsidizes everyone with massive give aways, making for a basically lazy population.
> 
> Stand on your own or fail. Business and individuals.


You remember 1903?Showing your age a bit,don't ya think.:laughing:


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## s.kelly

Black4Truck said:


> Or the millions who's benefits have run out


 Also the underemployed are not counted. Lots of people that made good money at professional or mfg jobs that are now asking if you want cheese on it, or if they are lucky answering a phone in some kind of customer service that has not gone to India yet.


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## HCG.Careers

hello-

i have a need for NEC certified / master / journeyman electrican in Afghanistan. we can do 3 months, 6 months, or longer contracts. please let me know at [email protected], thanks!


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## nitro71

Black4Truck said:


> Just so I understand how this works.. a guy gets laid off from work and collects unemployment insurance till it runs out.
> 
> He is not allowed to work in a non-union shop even if it means he loses his house, car, and wife from having no income.
> 
> He is suppose to stay loyal to the UNION for (2) years?? :blink:


 
That is entirely up to the local. In eastern WA you are allowed to work for non-union shops if you desire. Generally if the union is slow the non-union contractors aren't hiring around here.


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## nitro71

miller_elex said:


> What new skills are left? IT is played out, so is residential construction, logging, mining, manufacturing is all gone to mexico and china. The way I see it, the next big push is in hospitality, for all the geezers. How is that going to work with a baby-boomer wiping a baby-boomer's butt? WTF is wrong with America?? (rhetorical question, don't answer)


Absolutely spot on. This country is near the end of it's rope financially. We CANNOT keep the current trade deficit and expect to survive.


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## nitro71

HCG.Careers said:


> hello-
> 
> i have a need for NEC certified / master / journeyman electrican in Afghanistan. we can do 3 months, 6 months, or longer contracts. please let me know at [email protected], thanks!


 
How about posting up some pay rates. What the contract looks like. How the security situation is. Is this work on base or out in the wild?


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## HCG.Careers

i'm new to the forums so you have to excuse me.

i honestly tried to post every detail i can think of, but it went over the allotted space per post, hence my previous shorter posts... nevertheless, i'll try to post them in several replies i guess (unless that is an easier way).

We are closing in on a contract to put together about 1,100 pre-fabricated containers to housing units, bathroom, and closets for the US Forces. The customer is US Army Corps of Engineers – Afghanistan Engineer District. The duty responsibilities include:

· Lead and supervise the Afghan electricians / laborers
· Quality Control of all electrical work on site
· Beat deadlines!
· Assist in expanding the electrical work capacity of the Afghan people (on the project site)
· Communicate with customer
· Compose accurate daily reports with pictures
· Need to be independent and culturally sensitive enough to respect the local customs
· No booze while in country, sorry…


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## HCG.Careers

We are offering:

1. $9,000 per month salary
2. Zero expenses while in country (except for personal items)
3. Personal translator & bodyguard at the project site and at personal quarters
4. Round trip ticket from where you are to Afghanistan
5. 17 days of paid vacation every 90 days in country
6. Bonus if deadlines are met

I have to be honest, the project is not yet on our lap, but if you are willing, we’d like to sign a letter of intent so the customer knows you are coming onboard if the project is awarded.

I am Michael Chang, a US Veteran who came to the Stan back in 2006 with the Army. I worked for US Army Corps of Engineers as a Construction Program Manager and have become a contractor in the region. The company I am with is perfectly positioned with expat management while possess a heavy political punch in the Afghanistan government (a province governor’s son is the part owner). In other words, not too many people would want to mess with us…


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## HCG.Careers

Regarding the work location, we're lookin at two towns, Gardez and Pul-e-Alam; both places have US / International Foces present. Once again, the contract is for US military. As an US citizen / war vet myself, I will not ask you to do / to be somewhere I wouldn't do / be.


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## HCG.Careers

nitro71 said:


> How about posting up some pay rates. What the contract looks like. How the security situation is. Is this work on base or out in the wild?


i hope i've clarified a little...


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## milehiwire

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