# Help Please!!!!!!!!



## yucan2 (Jun 9, 2009)

You got it.


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## chenley (Feb 20, 2007)

You pretty much have it. Low is the 120 and high is the 240. I can't really tell from the picture (a little blurry), although you are probably right just tie the leads together that is shown on the diagram and hook up your two legs to the wires marked, good to go. 

Only other thing I can think of is if the motor will run in reverse or not. I know 3-phase motors you just switch any two phases. For a 120/240 motor I have no idea, I don't really recall having an issue with that.


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## redsox98 (Oct 16, 2009)

chenley said:


> You pretty much have it. Low is the 120 and high is the 240. I can't really tell from the picture (a little blurry), although you are probably right just tie the leads together that is shown on the diagram and hook up your two legs to the wires marked, good to go.
> 
> Only other thing I can think of is if the motor will run in reverse or not. I know 3-phase motors you just switch any two phases. For a 120/240 motor I have no idea, I don't really recall having an issue with that.


Thanks alot. 

It says interchange the 5 and 8 leads to reverse rotation but I assume that the way it shows would fill instead of empty. Any Ideas about the pipe?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

redsox98 said:


> ......It says interchange the 5 and 8 leads to reverse rotation but I assume that the way it shows would fill instead of empty......


Don't assume the rotation will be correct. Whether it will function as designed, and whether it would do anything in reverse depends on the pump.



redsox98 said:


> ... Any Ideas about the pipe?


We're electricians, not plumbers.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

how much was the fine ? ( $5000 ? 10 ?)


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## redsox98 (Oct 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Don't assume the rotation will be correct. Whether it will function as designed, and whether it would do anything in reverse depends on the pump.
> 
> 
> 
> We're electricians, not plumbers.



The pipe I am asking about is from the switch to the motor. Does it have to be rigid with flex to the motor or can it be carflex?

About the fine I don't know he just said it was a good ding. I am sure it hurt them. I would think that they would just come in and say I know that it has been that way for years but it needs to be brought up to OSHA reg's. I think that for them to just come in and slap a fine is hokey at best


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I recall reading something about open air refuelling stations in article 500, but it's been too long. The real question is: does your local jurisdiction have more stringent rules than the NEC on that ? is it open air ? A phone call might be worth your time. ( Isn't Illinois the state where it's against OSHA rules for an employee to use a fire extinguisher unless they have been trained ?)


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## Richard Rowe (May 25, 2009)

The carflex should be ok as long as you use the liquid tight connectors and boxes. I really can't see the picture good enough but checking rotation is always a smart move. Standing and watching something burn is the correct thing to do if you have not been trained by a OSHA certified professional on the correct use of a fire fighting device. We had two workers watch an old trash truck burn they were 25 feet from an extinguisher.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

If the motor is connected per diagram, it'll most likely turn CCW when looking at the back of the motor. 

If it's supposed to turn CW, tie J and 8 together, and 2,3, and 5 together. The lines still go on 1 and 4.

The above connections are for 230 volts.

Rob


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## redsox98 (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the help guy's. We called several people the fire marshal's office and the "local" inspector to see what they wanted and everyone has dodged the pipe question. :whistling2: They are coming on this week to inspect and hook-up so we will see if they have made a decision by then.


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

Propane filling station?? Carflex?? WTF... you need seal offs, explosion proof boxes, rigid, and explosion proof flexible conduit.
Class I Division II Group D
Read NEC Article 500 Lots of information there...... I have done quite a few propane stations, and for each one I have to breakout the code book and pictures and diagrams of the previous installs I have done.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

You may be a friend of his and want to do a freebie but get a receipt, at least, to show your insurance carrier if something goes wrong. You may have to prove that he, in fact, WAS a customer.


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## Voltech (Nov 30, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> You may be a friend of his and want to do a freebie but get a receipt, at least, to show your insurance carrier if something goes wrong. You may have to prove that he, in fact, WAS a customer.


We do this all the time. We fill out an invoice and get a check payment for 5 bucks. Always leave a paper trail


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

wildleg said:


> I recall reading something about open air refuelling stations in article 500, but it's been too long. The real question is: does your local jurisdiction have more stringent rules than the NEC on that ? is it open air ? A phone call might be worth your time. ( Isn't Illinois the state where it's against OSHA rules for an employee to use a fire extinguisher unless they have been trained ?)


Don't know the specifics of IL state laws right off hand, but my employer does not allow anyone to use a fire extinguisher unless we have been properly trained.

Yes, I am trained. We go through a course every year.


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

eric7379 said:


> Don't know the specifics of IL state laws right off hand, but my employer does not allow anyone to use a fire extinguisher unless we have been properly trained.
> 
> Yes, I am trained. We go through a course every year.


 Are you saying if there is a fire and someone has a fire extinguisher. They have to just stand there and let it burn because someone didn't train them? How long does it take to train someone to pull a pin, aim nozzle, and pull trigger? Do you need to be certified to operate a garden hose too?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

lol, true. suprisingly, a lot of people really don't know how to use a fire extinguisher (and have never even read the directions on how to use them). I read on some FA site that in Illinois the local OSHA actually hand out violations if an untrained person uses one. In their defense, there are correct ways to put out most fires, and training is a good idea. We did some work for a local poco/gas utility, and they have a training site where they have mockups of houses, gas meters, manholes, and broken underground mains, which they light up and have everyone in the class put out with ordinary 5 or 10lb extinguishers. that was fun.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Skipp said:


> Are you saying if there is a fire and someone has a fire extinguisher. They have to just stand there and let it burn because someone didn't train them? How long does it take to train someone to pull a pin, aim nozzle, and pull trigger? Do you need to be certified to operate a garden hose too?



If your employer requires steel-toed shoes, and your feet get hurt on the job, OSHA can fine your employer for not training you on how to tie your shoes.


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

Skipp said:


> Are you saying if there is a fire and someone has a fire extinguisher. They have to just stand there and let it burn because someone didn't train them? How long does it take to train someone to pull a pin, aim nozzle, and pull trigger? Do you need to be certified to operate a garden hose too?


There is much more to it than that Skipp. What type of fire extinguisher to use, for one. Would you use a water fire extinguisher on an electrical fire?? Didn't think so.

Do you know what the PASS method is and how to apply it? Do you know where to aim the extinguisher when you are trying to put out a fire? 

As I have mentioned, a person should know how to use a fire extinguisher first before they use it (hopefully they never have to).

As far as the training kick goes, we have to be trained on how to use a ladder. You might laught at it, but I am not joking. 

The point that I am trying to make is that there are a lot of things out there that the general employee needs to be trained on the proper use and care of. If the employer does not provide the training and there is an accident, guess what happens? OSHA, and I am not talking about a town in Wisconsin, either. The fines will start stacking up. 

Just because it might sound foolish to you, does not mean that it sounds foolish to OSHA. Whose opinion do you think will matter more?


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## Innovative (Jan 26, 2010)

What does using a fire extinguisher have to do with wiring a propane filling station...... Ohh, I get it, if he wires it the way he wants to, they will need several of them..........


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

lol, maybe. If you read the post - my point was that he should check with the ahj in case the local rules for the filling station superceded the NEC.


What was the outcome of this thing anyway ? got pics ?


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## Skipp (May 23, 2010)

eric7379 said:


> There is much more to it than that Skipp. What type of fire extinguisher to use, for one. Would you use a water fire extinguisher on an electrical fire?? Didn't think so.
> 
> Do you know what the PASS method is and how to apply it? Do you know where to aim the extinguisher when you are trying to put out a fire?
> 
> ...


 Do I know what type of extinguisher to use? Do I know where to aim the discharge? Yea I learned that in the fifth grade. Didn't you have a Jr. Fireman's program in elementary school?


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

Skipp said:


> Do I know what type of extinguisher to use? Do I know where to aim the discharge? Yea I learned that in the fifth grade. Didn't you have a Jr. Fireman's program in elementary school?


You are completely missing the point here. I am not trying to make it sound like using a fire extinguisher is the equivalent of rocket science. 

We got started on this topic because someone made a comment about the state of Illinois requiring fire extinguisher training:



wildleg said:


> I recall reading something about open air refuelling stations in article 500, but it's been too long. The real question is: does your local jurisdiction have more stringent rules than the NEC on that ? is it open air ? A phone call might be worth your time. ( Isn't Illinois the state where it's against OSHA rules for an employee to use a fire extinguisher unless they have been trained ?)


I replied back saying that I did not know the Illinois laws right off hand, but my employer requires fire extinguisher training. To this, you replied:



Skipp said:


> Are you saying if there is a fire and someone has a fire extinguisher. They have to just stand there and let it burn because someone didn't train them? How long does it take to train someone to pull a pin, aim nozzle, and pull trigger? Do you need to be certified to operate a garden hose too?


The point that I am trying to get across here is training. Just because you and I know how to use a fire extinguisher does not mean that everyone else does. A lot of people do not. There are also a lot of things that employees need to receive training for, but do not. Hence the references to OSHA.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

apparently it is a federal OSHA law that requires employee training on the use of fire extinguishers

1910.157 g 1


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

I wouldn't be surprised if OSHA required training on the safe use of a Sani-Hut. 

Wouldn't it be funny if it was 1910. 5.H.1.T

Rob


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

micromind said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if OSHA required training on the safe use of a Sani-Hut.
> 
> Wouldn't it be funny if it was 1910. 5.H.1.T
> 
> Rob



I'm waiting for the day I need to show OSHA one of these.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

Hilarious!!

I noticed that in Section 8, you're required to wear safety glasses and a lab coat though. 

Apparently, I was in violation several times today, as I have been every other day for the past 53 years. 

I also noticed that Section 9 is not totally accurate. Not long ago, most of the water around here was in a solid state. Waidaminute, I guess in the government office, completing the $50,000,000 study of the hazards of water, it would indeed be a liquid.

Rob


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

Has this thing blown up yet or what?


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## pesdfw (Jun 23, 2010)

How can you see the numbers and letters on that pic?


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## ampman (Apr 2, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I'm waiting for the day I need to show OSHA one of these.


 now that is the the best thing i've seen yet :laughing:


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

redsox98 said:


> Any Ideas about the pipe?


 What about the pipe? I'm also a licensed millwright.
Be aware with the electrical that you are dealing with a hazardous location. I don't know if our Canadian electrical code is the same as yours when it comes to propane filling stations, but there is a whole chapter on it, and they're pretty serious about it up here, anyway, regarding what can be within various distances of the gas outlet.

Mike


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

I'm in IL, and have worked around outdoor filling stations. We use ridgid, seal offs, and EP boxes.


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