# Concrete pole bases. Precast or pour in place??



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Southeast Power said:


> We have 10 - 7' pole bases for an upcoming job. Our estimator put in a $750 allowance for them thinking we would tie steel and pour using sonotube. I prefer to buy them precast.
> 
> Is there a diminishing point somewhere considering the number of poles where pouring or precast has an advantage over the other??



This whole story is biased due to the fact that you are digging in sand , which means you can hire one apprentice to dig the whole job up in an afternoon, saving yourselves the tens of thousands that it costs the rest of the country to excavate that job, resulting in enough saved cash to be able to easily purchase the pre cast poles........:biggrin:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> This whole story is biased due to the fact that you are digging in sand , which means you can hire one apprentice to dig the whole job up in an afternoon, saving yourselves the tens of thousands that it costs the rest of the country to excavate that job, resulting in enough saved cash to be able to easily purchase the pre cast poles........:biggrin:


This site was de-mucked down to limestone and then filled in with 10' of compacted fill. 
This one isn't a shoveling job. :sad:


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

Depending on the soil type and conditions, round pole bases have to be deeper in the ground. The poles that I used required a minimum 24 inch round with six feet in the ground or 24 inch square 4 feet deep. Make the form a pyramid shape and you can down size a bit. 24 X 24 at the bottom and 18 X 18 at the top. Sono tube $100. vs a sheet of plywood $12.00.
Precast you need a crane or other means to lift them to set in place. Pouring them you can work at your own pace.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Precast needs a uniform hole, level bottom, same depth, and a crane, and it might lean over time. Pour in place is easier to plumb up. What does the job scope say?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

joebanana said:


> Precast needs a uniform hole, level bottom, same depth, and a crane, and it might lean over time. Pour in place is easier to plumb up. What does the job scope say?


The plans show a pole base and a bolt pattern with the steel requirements. I like having the luxury of pacing ourselves and pouring our own but, I might not have the time.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

You can always sub it out to a concrete crew, preferably one you've worked with in the past.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

We ALWAYS pour our own bases.

Now I'm working with a GC we haven't done business with before, and it sounds like all they've ever seen is precast used.

So we'll see, I'm not opposed to precast if the GC is willing to have the dirt sub unload and place them with our assistance.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

$750 per pole base? We have good dirt here and no rock, I figure at least $1,500 and still feel like I lose my ass. 
Cheapest is to sub it out to the concrete guy but then you have to watch them like a hawk or they will **** you. 
10 I would do that a few more I may think about precast, especially if it is a spec type of job. How much is a precast?


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## Techy (Mar 4, 2011)

I can hire the same guy with an auger truck to dig a hole for a pour in place or dig and set a precast base for the same price. I haven't done a bigger site job in a while, but I seem to remember somewhere between 15-20 being the break even point that precast begins taking over poured in place. Time also being a factor. Precast bases are always at minimum 4-6 weeks out, after you receive anchor bolts from supplier.

Obviously getting the GC to be responsible for the bases being the best way, subbing to a reliable concrete guy 2nd, pouring your own 3rd, then precast, unless the numbers make sense.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> The plans show a pole base and a bolt pattern with the steel requirements. I like having the luxury of pacing ourselves and pouring our own but, I might not have the time.


In that respect it's like anything else, are you looking to fill more hours and do more work or are you already stretched? 

As @sbrn33 said $750 sounds way low based on some of the other pricing you've mentioned. Digging the hole, the rebar, the form, the bolts ... but also, waiting for the concrete truck, the liability you assume, the chance of making an expensive mistake, I can't see $750.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

They put it off long enough that we are just going to hire a CW out of the hall and make this his baby for a couple of weeks.


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## canbug (Dec 31, 2015)

Both, precast for streetlights and pour in place for our high mast lighting. The pour in place are generally 48" wide and up to 30' deep. I don't want a precast for that.


Tim.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We ended up pouring them.
Every one of them came out nice.
The poles arrived, the guys put a couple of heads on.
All was going well until we noticed something didn’t look right.
It looks like a change order to me.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

Southeast Power said:


> We ended up pouring them.
> Every one of them came out nice.
> The poles arrived, the guys put a couple of heads on.
> All was going well until we noticed something didn’t look right.
> It looks like a change order to me.


The change order should augment the original $750 you got. $75 a pour sounded cheap to me.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

Adaptor plate ... charge large for the extra ... and yer done !


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

flyboy said:


> The change order should augment the original $750 you got. $75 a pour sounded cheap to me.


Our line item was $7,500 for 10 bases. We paid $1,200 for the sonotube, $300 for the steel, $750 for the auger attachment, $1,200 for the concrete, the bad part. 100 man hours.

Now we will have to cut off the existing bolts, 40 of them, core drill out and install some fancy ass Hilti product and hardware.
We will have to patch over the cut off bolts so they don’t bleed rust.

We did hear a sister project in another state had the same problem.
The complication for us is the 150mph wind load requirement We have in Miami.

The first thing I thought was an adaptor plate. It will have to have the blessing of a PE.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> Our line item was $7,500 for 10 bases. We paid $1,200 for the sonotube, $300 for the steel, $750 for the auger attachment, $1,200 for the concrete, the bad part. 100 man hours.
> 
> Now we will have to cut off the existing bolts, 40 of them, core drill out and install some fancy ass Hilti product and hardware.
> We will have to patch over the cut off bolts so they don’t bleed rust.
> ...


Just curious, but I assume you used a 3500 psi no air mix? What does a yard of concrete run down there?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

460 Delta said:


> Just curious, but I assume you used a 3500 psi no air mix? What does a yard of concrete run down there?


They made us use an air mix.

The specs call for 4000 PSI, 150 PCF with 5-7% Air Entrainment. We will need a mix design specifically for this, you can use the mix number you have for Axtell #1579354 for reference.

This was almost impossible to find in our region.
All of the exterior pours require it. We were the first to call out that spec. We had to find a vendor that could provide documentation.

It was just under $1,700 for two six yard deliveries a week apart. They poured 5 at a time.


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## stiffneck (Nov 8, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> Our line item was $7,500 for 10 bases. We paid $1,200 for the sonotube, $300 for the steel, $750 for the auger attachment, $1,200 for the concrete, the bad part. 100 man hours.
> 
> Now we will have to cut off the existing bolts, 40 of them, core drill out *and install some fancy ass Hilti product and hardware*.
> We will have to patch over the cut off bolts so they don’t bleed rust.
> ...


We've used the Hilti products but only exactly what you need. Shelf life of this stuff is minimal. We ended up throwing away what we had the next time we needed it.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

Southeast Power said:


> They made us use an air mix.
> 
> The specs call for 4000 PSI, 150 PCF with 5-7% Air Entrainment. We will need a mix design specifically for this, you can use the mix number you have for Axtell #1579354 for reference.
> 
> ...


An air entrained mix? In the south of Florida I'm thinking it won't freeze, so why the 6% air mix? The 4000 mix I get, because most guys wet it up to flow good and not honeycomb, thereby weakening the resultant mix.
The price per yard would be similar here for a JMF mix that need paperwork.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

They make pole base adapters?


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Do you guys have something like this down there? They are a little more expensive, but it'd be nice to know you can sink a base and know the bolts will line up every time.


I'm not sure if it meets the high wind load requirements you have though?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Cow said:


> Do you guys have something like this down there? They are a little more expensive, but it'd be nice to know you can sink a base and know the bolts will line up every time.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if it meets the high wind load requirements you have though?
> ...


I don't think I enjoyed a single thing about those pole bases.
If I had known about those bases, I would have submitted them for approval.
I'm going to share this with the project engineer. I believe those pole bases will solve every problem they have with the pole bases.
I know have a bucket of bolts the superintendant decided to cut off for us. It just gets better and better.
Meanwhile. They reached out to Hilti and asked them to specify a replacement anchor system.


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