# Afci trips under generator load.



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

IBEW 164 said:


> Sq D homeline panel. Sq d homeline afci breaker. When in the line position works perfectly. Under generator load it instantly trips. This seems to be a common issue. Has anyone run into this specifically.Or better yet any other replacement breakers that fit the homeline panel that are less sensitive or have the adjustment screw built Into them. I've seen only one afci that had adjustment on it and I don't recall which make it was.
> 
> This is a 15 amp for a Master Bedroom


Is the AFCI IN the main panel?


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Is the AFCI IN the main panel?



Yes. Afci in the main. There is no sub. Running though a reliance 10 circuit manual transfer switch


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

All ckts work fine except for the Afci. Line position on the TS it's perfectly normal. Under generator power even if run by itself after all is warmed up it trips out the afci in the panel


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

IBEW 164 said:


> Yes. Afci in the main. There is no sub. Running though a reliance 10 circuit manual transfer switch


So the load on the AFCI goes through the reliance then to the bedroom?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> So the load on the AFCI goes through the reliance then to the bedroom?


Nice point :thumbsup:


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

Your setup per circuit is this. TS has two wires on it per ckt. Homerin is removed from the breaker. Red wire from TS goes to the breaker. The homerun that was removed gets spliced to the second wire. (from the TS that's designated for that ckt)


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

The only thing I can think of is that the panel had two bars on it. Neutrals and ground mixed on both I went with the neutral and ground from the TS
To the same bar since it had spaces available. The afci breakers neutral is also on that bar. I've never had an afci running through a TS so this is the first time I've encountered this problem


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

IBEW 164 said:


> The only thing I can think of is that the panel had two bars on it. Neutrals and ground mixed on both I went with the neutral and ground from the TS
> To the same bar since it had spaces available. The afci breakers neutral is also on that bar. I've never had an afci running through a TS so this is the first time I've encountered this problem


This is interesting..

The load neutral still goes to the AFCI right.

then you have neutrals and grounds run between the main and the transfer switch,Are the neutrals and grounds together in the switch as well?

What I'm thinking is that you need to have the AFCI in the reliance panel for it to work from the generator.

Do they even make AFCI's for those panels? I have not seen them.


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> This is interesting..
> 
> The load neutral still goes to the AFCI right.
> 
> then you have neutrals and grounds run between the main and the transfer switch,Are the neutrals and grounds together in the switch as well?


Yes the only wire that is touched for the afci ckt is the homerun from the breaker itself. The neutrals are not touched. Then the TS
Has a number 10 neutral and a number 12
Ground. They both imply go to the bars in the panel.
You can't see what they do in the switch. The generator feeds a l1430
Mounted outside which is then hardwired to the ts


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

Maybe this helps. http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Documents/30216BRK Instructions.pdf


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Never used a transfer switch with AFCI but that PDF says


When the transfer switch is connected to branch circuits with AFCI or GFCI breakers, the AFCI or GFCI protection will be lost when the toggle switch in the transfer switch is in the GEN position. To get AFCI or GFCI protection when running on generator
power, it must be provided at the outlet(s).


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

rrolleston said:


> Never used a transfer switch with AFCI but that PDF says
> 
> 
> When the transfer switch is connected to branch circuits with AFCI or GFCI breakers, the AFCI or GFCI protection will be lost when the toggle switch in the transfer switch is in the GEN position. To get AFCI or GFCI protection when running on generator
> power, it must be provided at the outlet(s).


Yup I just read that,And we do not have AFCI outlets yet...:whistling2::no:


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

IBEW 164 said:


> Sq D homeline panel. Sq d homeline afci breaker. When in the line position works perfectly. Under generator load it instantly trips. This seems to be a common issue. Has anyone run into this specifically.Or better yet any other replacement breakers that fit the homeline panel that are less sensitive or have the adjustment screw built Into them. I've seen only one afci that had adjustment on it and I don't recall which make it was.
> 
> This is a 15 amp for a Master Bedroom




Ummmm I don't think you have ever seen a GFCI or an AFCI with any adjustment on them. You might of seen a GFP device with it though.


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## rrolleston (Mar 6, 2012)

Would AFCI protection be required when on generator to pass? Makes it impossible since they don't have AFCI receptacles and even if they did you need conduit to the first receptacle that is AFCI protected.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

rrolleston said:


> Would AFCI protection be required when on generator to pass? Makes it impossible since they don't have AFCI receptacles and even if they did you need conduit to the first receptacle that is AFCI protected.




Yes it would be required. Another reason to sell generators with ATS's and not MTS's. :thumbsup:


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## IBEW 164 (Nov 26, 2012)

I understand that it's lost when in gen position. Here's a good one for you. With the main on, generator powering the TS it trips the afci. With the main off,
And the generator powering the TS it does not trip the AFCI. 

Heres my only thought now.... When power is not lost but testing the TS operation via generator with the main on and other ckts running....the afci is picking up interference bc of the quick power spike and therefore it trips. 

With the main off. Which simulates and outage....it works bc there is no switchover between line power and gen power. Therefore it runs fine. 

So I Should be able to kill the main.... Power it up via the TS. Then when i throw the main back on the afci should trip.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Yup I just read that,And we do not have AFCI outlets yet...:whistling2::no:


Leviton makes them 

https://www.google.com/search?q=lev...tBIW20QGtrIDQBQ&ved=0CEsQsxg&biw=1280&bih=826


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

If your MTS isn't switching the neutral, are you now double-bonded through the service and the generator frame? 

Parallel paths would screw up any-ground fault sensing circuitry in the AFCI, but it would definitely trip any GFCI protected loads as well.

Other than that, maybe there's less than perfect voltage/frequency out of the generator and the AFCI is finicky...?


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Big John said:


> If your MTS isn't switching the neutral, are you now double-bonded through the service and the generator frame?
> 
> Parallel paths would screw up any-ground fault sensing circuitry in the AFCI, but it would definitely trip any GFCI protected loads as well.
> 
> *Other than that, maybe there's less than perfect voltage/frequency out of the generator and the AFCI is finicky...?*


That was my first thought.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Already been through this two years ago. Same transfer switch same problem. Replaced it with small Siemens panel with interlock. Now your afcis and gfis work fine. Now that we are supposed to have neutral switched panels with neutral bonded generators all I install are x panels.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Its because your neutral current is still coming back to the afci breaker for that circuit. Are you shutting off the main when you are trying this or just transferring circuits at the TS? If the main is off, the AFCI shouldn't have any control power to run the circuitry and it might work with your TS.


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