# 70e



## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Don't bust my marbles on this Zog. I reviewed 70E when it was first written and blew it off because I was working service by myself, and I drew the line on what I would perform and what I wouldn't. If I said I would do it offline, and they didn't like it, well, there we're other jobs. Doing electrical maintenance working FT with a facility brought up other unwanted issues. I know 70E was written and applied for ones safety, mainly those who WERE BEING BULLIED AND LOSING BIDS I will add that I support 70E all the way.

Let me make a long story short. I did NOT volunteer to be on the Safety Committee at work, I was volunteered by my Supe. I don't want to be on it unless I can make changes. We are a two shift crew and all of our work is done by an "unqualified" maintenance guy who I personally like and am friends with.

What happened to long story short? I don't want to be on the committee when what I have to say will get shrugged off, and I may lose my cool. I have several arc flash incidents on my drive that I will show and some other doc. I can pull from what I saved, but I do not have a copy of 70E. Is there an online site that references the entire mandate?

I have one week to my first meeting. I am going to go in very quiet, with my laptop, be introduced to the rest of the committee, and voice my word on the onsite "work hour" duties that are being performed by maintenance.
A perfect point that is so disturbing is I have seen 120/208, 480V panels with covers off for adding circuits and the panels being left open and not even roped off . They were left that way when the guys from maintenance went to lunch No warnings to others/nothing to thee untrained personnel in the 30' diameter of the DP's.

Don't call me shallow, I want the change, but I don't believe I'll get it.

Quit rambling dork, my only question is,...is there an online reference to 70E? I can quote alot of it, but I'll be darned if I get cornered with a question I can't answer in front of a Committee of 15 people when I brought up the fact in the first place. Before I bring up 70E, I am going to put the arc flash incidents up on the projection screen, pack my laptop up, and imply that what I have to say is moot to those who are supposed to be listening. I am going to bring up the online work after my introduction to the Committee, talk some more about it, and then play "Donnie's Accident", that we all know of and go from there. These are all manangers and engineers only familiar with CATI apps. I have nothing really to say to them if they won't listen. Bottom line is I don't want to be on the Committee if they just shrug off what I have to say.

I, ultimately would like to play that video along with two others, throw some 70E at them and ask to be excused from the Committee, HOPEFULLY to make a point. The two guys in maintenance both have a two-year degree in Electrical Construction & Maintenance and than came to work for the company. Heyyyy, I didn't do the hiring.


Are the simpler points to 70E avail. online anywhere?


Again, cut me some slack Zog.......................


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

while videos of donnie's accident and so forth are compelling, they don't have near as much impact to corporate types as charts and graphs describing things like, well, how much money could be saved by avoiding OSHA fines that other companies <graph here> have spent by changinge procedures <bullet points>, which would involve some training and hardware (ppe) < graph training +ppe vs lawsuits>


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## Buck Parrish (May 7, 2009)

That's a lot of reading :no: I'll be back...


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

wildleg said:


> while videos of donnie's accident and so forth are compelling, they don't have near as much impact to corporate types as charts and graphs describing things like, well, how much money could be saved by avoiding OSHA fines that other companies <graph here> have spent by changinge procedures <bullet points>, which would involve some training and hardware (ppe) < graph training +ppe vs lawsuits>


 
You are so right, it makes me very sick


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Don't bust my marbles on this Zog. I reviewed 70E when it was first written and blew it off because I was working service by myself, and I drew the line on what I would perform and what I wouldn't. If I said I would do it offline, and they didn't like it, well, there we're other jobs. Doing electrical maintenance working FT with a facility brought up other unwanted issues. I know 70E was written and applied for ones safety, mainly those who WERE BEING BULLIED AND LOSING BIDS I will add that I support 70E all the way.
> 
> Let me make a long story short. I did NOT volunteer to be on the Safety Committee at work, I was volunteered by my Supe. I don't want to be on it unless I can make changes. We are a two shift crew and all of our work is done by an "unqualified" maintenance guy who I personally like and am friends with.
> 
> ...





Maybe some of these would be of some help,

http://www.ieci.org/uploads/SafetyPresentation12.15.06.pdf

http://vmsstreamer1.fnal.gov/VMS_Site_03/Lectures/TMCC/presentations/ARC Flash Boundary & NFPA.pdf

Maybe throw in some Osha statistics and play a few youtube videos.

Dig up some insurance numbers (suites love hearing things in dollars and cents).

And maybe give some of your own opinions based off of your own experience in the industry.

I would say give it a try. Might be able to educate some people and help to prevent some accidents. You might enjoy it.


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## 76nemo (Aug 13, 2008)

Here's another one for you guys I can't answer,.........what code mandates that any room, such as a bathroom in an commercial facility shall have egress lighting????

Guess I shouldn't of just titled this post as 70E


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Geez, I am not a safety Nazi .

Videos and gory photos are a waste of time. What you need to present is what the law requires, and back that up with some recent OSHA fines related to your size/type of company. You can find all sorts of good stats by your SIC code at www.osha.gov

There you can also find the electrical standards that apply to your company, recent revisions of the OSHA electrical standard mention referencing the 70E and that OSHA will enforce the 70E as the industry standard. 

The point about the 70E to get across is not any of the PPE stuff, or the HRC tables, none of that stuff (Yet) that people alyas relate to the 70E. You need to get across 2 points, 2 of the first sections of the 70E. 

*Article 110.6 Training*
According to the NFPA 70E, a “Qualified Person" is one who is trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of the equipment or the specific work method, and be trained to recognize the hazards present with respect to that equipment or work method.

Such persons shall also be familiar with the use of the precautionary techniques, personal protective equipment, insulating and shielding materials, and insulated tools and test equipment. A person can be considered qualified with respect to certain tasks but still be unqualified for others.

An employee that is undergoing on the job training and who, in the course of such training, has demonstrated the ability to perform duties safely at his or her level of training and who is under the direct supervision of a qualified person shall be considered to be a qualified person for the performance of those duties. 

In addition, to be permitted to work within the limited approach of exposed energized conductors and circuit parts the person shall be trained in all of the following:

Qualified employees shall be trained and competent in: 

The skills and techniques necessary to distinguish exposed live parts from other parts of electric equipment
The skills and techniques necessary to determine the nominal voltage of exposed live parts
The minimum approach distances specified in this section corresponding to the voltages to which the qualified employee will be exposed, and,
The decision making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning necessary to perform the task safely
A few Zog notes to add to the 70E definition. 

Only the employer can deem an employee qualified after they have had the proper training and have demonstrated profinency using the skills and method learned.
There is no such thing as NFPA 70E certification, going to a training course does not make an employee qualified. 
The most misunderstood part of the "qualified" term is that it is all emcompassing, you are "qualified" to work on a specific type or piece of equipment.
Neither a J-card, a masters license, or an engineering degree make you a "qualified person"
The word "electrician" is not anywhere in the definition of a "qualified person" meaning these rules apply to all employees and you dont have to be an electrician to be "qualified"
The next section to discuss is Article 130.1

Most people think of the NFPA 70E as some sort of guide to working on energized equipment when actually it is just the opposite. There are very rare occasions when energized work is permitted. 

*NFPA 70E Article 130.1* *Justification for work. *Live parts to which an employee might be exposed shall be put into an electrically safe work condition before an employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. 

*Zog's note:* If you dont know what "Infeasible" means, look it up; it means "incapable of being done". Dont confuse feasible with convenient.

Energized parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground are not required to be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.

NOTE 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include, but are not limited to, interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment 

NOTE 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near exposed energized electrical conductors or circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include performing diagnostics and testing (e.g., start-up or troubleshooting) of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous process that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment.


*So *this is the main point of the 70E, don't work energized. But if you must, and you can justify it, you need to use an EEWP and wear the proper PPE. 

I have a checklist with all of the things that you are required to do to be 70E compliant, some things may vary depending on the type of business but this list is where I tell my customers to start. I don't have it at home but will post it monday.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

76nemo said:


> Here's another one for you guys I can't answer,.........what code mandates that any room, such as a bathroom in an commercial facility shall have egress lighting????


Building and or fire codes.

But a bathroom would not likely require egress lighting.

I know, that seems wrong and maybe it is, but the way the rules for egress lighting are written most bathrooms do not require egress lighting, or offices or storage rooms etc.

Yes you certainly see EBUs in some bathrooms but those where added by choice in most cases.

I think ( I am not sure) that a room has to have a capacity of over 50 before that room requires egress lighting.

Other than that it is the paths of egress that has to be lit, not rooms.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

don't make no sense to me not to have an emergency bat pack in the john.


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