# Landscape lighting



## joebeadg (Oct 7, 2008)

When I did jobs like that I would go there with a few fixtures and connect them temporerally to see how they look and get customer approval of them before I would purchase them in quantity


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Your supplier should be able to connect you with a manufacturer's rep.


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I just called a kichler lighting rep. 

I was told I want a 10 degree light and an 8.5 watt multi diode. 

Every 4.5 watt is good enough to hit a 20’ roof eave 

8.5 watt good for 40’ roof eave 


Did not think that answer was going to come that quick 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

I don't care how "high end" they are, $200-$400 per fixture for LED landscape lights is completely, and totally absurd. For that they should install themselves.
Wait till the homeowner see's what you're going to do to their landscaping, and lawn.
Ditch witch through the rose garden....yeah...buddy. Don't forget to watch for sprinkler lines. You'll know which way they run, when you hit them.


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

joebanana said:


> I don't care how "high end" they are, $200-$400 per fixture for LED landscape lights is completely, and totally absurd. For that they should install themselves.
> Wait till the homeowner see's what you're going to do to their landscaping, and lawn.
> Ditch witch through the rose garden....yeah...buddy. Don't forget to watch for sprinkler lines. You'll know which way they run, when you hit them.




You get what you pay for, and looking at these fixtures it’s obvious they aren’t from a Home Depot Kit. 

We are replacing an older halogen system that I believe is around 15-18yrs old. The older system also looks like it wasn’t cheap. Stainless steel transformers I would say are high end. 

The installation is around the perimeter of mulch beds with flowers and trees and not crowded. 

I plan to use a deep hedging spade for burying wires. 

Also some hardscape lighting has been wired into stone stairways, they still work .... but we are replacing them to led kichlers. 

Ditch witch for LV lighting ? Not a chance 

Their also having us install a kichler gateway and LED controller to operate the lights from their phones. With 2 separate zones one in the front yard and another in the back this ends up being a $2500 option ! 



I guess when you have money to blow you can have fun...

Why buy a $200,000 Ferrari when an $18,000 Toyota will also get you from point A to B? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

WronGun said:


> You get what you pay for, and looking at these fixtures it’s obvious they aren’t from a Home Depot Kit.
> 
> We are replacing an older halogen system that I believe is around 15-18yrs old. The older system also looks like it wasn’t cheap. Stainless steel transformers I would say are high end.
> 
> ...


 I figured if they're spending that kinda bling for lights, they were going to be in conduit with concrete bases, not just stuck in the ground.
So........ each fixture doesn't have an independent driver? Just an LED in a housing? For $200?
Must be nice.


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

joebanana said:


> I figured if they're spending that kinda bling for lights, they were going to be in conduit with concrete bases, not just stuck in the ground.
> So........ each fixture doesn't have an independent driver? Just an LED in a housing? For $200?
> Must be nice.




Yes independent drivers. The led controller is the kichler part needed for mobile integration along with a gateway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

It’s crazy I know. This model Starts at $362!

Some are listed for close to $500














Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

joebanana said:


> I don't care how "high end" they are, $200-$400 per fixture for LED landscape lights is completely, and totally absurd. For that they should install themselves.
> Wait till the homeowner see's what you're going to do to their landscaping, and lawn.
> Ditch witch through the rose garden....yeah...buddy. Don't forget to watch for sprinkler lines. You'll know which way they run, when you hit them.


We had a client buy an aluminium 3" pole from kitchler... we burried almost half of it in concrete... should have just gotten a steel one. It does the same job. We thought he got an empty cardboard box because the damn thing was so light.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

For that kind of money there's no way you should be designing it. Like Mike said, have the supply house send out a designer. Just install the lights where they put the flags. They'll Wright the fixture type on the flag. Connect the dots, and not have to worry about if it could have been done better or have a better look.


----------



## Sprink (Apr 21, 2012)

Wrongun Please step back and rethink your lighting design.
I do outdoor lighting and sprinkler work. I hate to see you make the common mistakes. 
I know you will have some questions so just ask.

The Kichler pro led controller you picked is a good one.You have a DC voltage transformer rated for 50 watts at 7 amps per zone (connection). They come in 100,200,300 watt. Each zone can be loaded to 50 watts with max 7 amps. So a 100 watt will have two 50 watt zones, 200 will have 4,300 will have 6. This is very important to understand when using the phone app. You need to wire all your zones to match the customer needs. Example - In the back yard you have lights around the pool and lights uplighting trees. If the home owner wants the pools lights on separate from the tree lights you will have to wire (zone) them on two different taps.

Now you know how many lights you have on a zone you need to size your wire for the total watts and voltage drop. This is easy to do just look in the manual.I like the secondary 7 amps DC instead of 25 amps AC on most transformers. This allows smaller wire without having to add a inline fuse on the 25 amp transformer.If the fuse blows someone will put anything in there to get it to work.

The Kichler pro led controller has built in astro timer. I never used the gateway but i would check the signal where the controller ts located.I have used the remote once and it works very well. Multi controls can be linked and you can control other items (pond pumps 120 volt etc) using Zwave and relay. 

The light you posted is a 120 volt light.:wink:You need 12 volt. There are better lights available for less.Look for something in the 2700k for a better look, 3000k is very white. Remember your controller is DC but you can use most led lights available. 

My thought on buying fixtures is very easy. If you can kick it and it breaks you bought the wrong light.Those lights you posted will break . You need to look at lights that are solid cast brass with a stout knuckle. Thats the weak point on every light. Integrated lights are best. Drop in bulbs can be a problem with the kicking, the bulb come out. And never put a light fixture in turf.

Good luck.


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

WronGun said:


> Currently designing a landscape lighting job for a very good client of mine.
> 
> Using high end LED kichler lighting fixtures.
> 
> ...


That photo needs a disclaimer "Moon Not Included".


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Sprink said:


> Wrongun Please step back and rethink your lighting design.
> 
> I do outdoor lighting and sprinkler work. I hate to see you make the common mistakes.
> 
> ...




Good info . 

The pictures are just example , those are not the lights I’m purchasing. Kichler came out with some new products and I found some of the older version directionals on clearance for around 140-170 with the correct specs. Integrated LED. 

The walkway lights they want are the most costly. 

Luckily I only have 2 zones in the Front yard and 1 in the back yard but they are not integrated into 1 system they are completely separate from each other. 
Which is why I need 2 transformers and 2 controllers ect. For front and back. 

I’m still figuring out the led controller setup. Haven’t seen many diagrams online on how the led controller and transformer connect. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CTshockhazard (Aug 28, 2009)

Haven't used them in years, (pre LED), but I the one's I've installed from Cast Lighting were very high quality.


----------



## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

I've used Kitchler, They're good but overpriced. I like Volt Lighting.


----------



## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

3DDesign said:


> I've used Kitchler, They're good but overpriced. I like Volt Lighting.


Have you tried AMP lighting? It's the same company but it's set up for contractors so people can't see what you paid for stuff. Also prices are slightly better. They have one floodlight that is programmable for all outputs and interchangeable lenses for beam angles so you can stock just one fixture for a lot of uses.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Forge Boyz said:


> Have you tried AMP lighting? It's the same company but it's set up for contractors so people can't see what you paid for stuff. Also prices are slightly better. They have one floodlight that is programmable for all outputs and interchangeable lenses for beam angles so you can stock just one fixture for a lot of uses.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


I'll take a look, Thanks.


----------



## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

I use volt also. Good quality and decent pricing. No way I put expensive landscape lights in. They get the **** beat out of them from lawn and landscape guys, not to mention kids and dogs.


----------



## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Wrongun .,

Just becarefull with the conductor distance especially with low voltage system like 12 volt is pretty common for landscaping luminaires and I have see few Volt lighting too over here and yes they are not bad on price but pretty well built for our conditions so I can justify it. 

you need to read the specs on the luminaires what you want and see how they use " termation " spice or kits to hook up to the landscape lumianires.


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

frenchelectrican said:


> Wrongun .,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I used the equation to figure out I need to use 8/2 wire..

I have (2) runs of 100’

I realize there is a voltage drop at every fixture but how is this avoided? 

I was told I should start the first light termination in the middle of the run and then break off 50’ to each direction. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

I like those transformers with multiple taps...12v -17v

We had 1 house roughly the same as your describing. Lights kept flickering.

Ended up putting 1 circuit on 15v and the slightly longer circuit on 17v. No more flickering.

This setup was installed by another company, we were called because of the lights flickering.

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


----------



## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I also have multiple taps on this xformer.
















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

WronGun said:


> I also have multiple taps on this xformer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep!
Start @ 12 and 13volts....if you have any issues bump it up. Hopefully it will be enough to resolve any issues.

We use the same transformer on our landscape lighting.

Worse case scenario, you return it for one that goes to 17v.

But Im sure others with more knowledge will chime in and may have a better solution.

I never heard of starting the circuit in the middle. Not sure how that will work, but looking forward to how it turns out.

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

http://www.beachsidelighting.com


Try looking at these guys lights. All made in America. They do custom designs also. Very durable.


----------



## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

WronGun said:


> Why buy a $200,000 Ferrari when an $18,000 Toyota will also get you from point A to B?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





its called the look at me factor!
its bragging because you have more money than brains:devil3:


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I don't know if this holds true for all the led landscape lights, but I found myself trying to increase voltage drop to get the voltage into the spec called for by the step lights I installed this summer. It said the life span would be less if above 12v (I've forgotten the exact figure). Think it was looking for 8-11 or something to that effect. Just added a bunch of thermostat wire inside at the transformer to drop it down. It was a short run so there wasn't anyplace for the normal losses.


----------



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

do you guys (all 5 of you) really get that many gigs for
Landscape lighting? 

I don't stand a chance at it here. Usually done by Landscape
companies who are using the usual suspects for labor.

It's not even competitively priced. I would not be able to
come near my hourly rate taking these low ball gigs.


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Florida used to require licensing for landscape lighting installation. You could be an EC (highest level electrical contractor) or an ES (electrical specialty limited energy) but they repealed the requirement maybe 2 years ago. 

Now any old Joe can sell landscape lighting installation services. 

Bigger jobs and bigger properties, bigger companies, the more affluent population, etc. are still going to use their favorite sparky.


----------



## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

MikeFL said:


> Florida used to require licensing for landscape lighting installation. You could be an EC (highest level electrical contractor) or an ES (electrical specialty limited energy) but they repealed the requirement maybe 2 years ago.
> 
> Now any old Joe can sell landscape lighting installation services.
> 
> Bigger jobs and bigger properties, bigger companies, the more affluent population, etc. are still going to use their favorite sparky.


Like Mike said....guy I'm with now is on a pretty very affluent area, so this past summer we had a few.



Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

It’s one of those specialty things that I think with the right customers you can make some decent money, provided you can deliver the ambience they’re looking for.


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

nrp3 said:


> It’s one of those specialty things that I think with the right customers you can make some decent money, provided you can deliver the ambience they’re looking for.


And the quality. If the stuff only lasts until the first freeze you're not going to be called back (except for warranty work) or recommended by that customer. Sell them very high quality, give them great service, charge large and you'll get the reputation for being the guy to call for getting the job done right the first time.


----------



## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Some of those lights are obscenely expensive. That said, I've had to clean some of the older ones out, put in new halogen pigtails. The rubber seals go bad over time. The solid brass ones are nice though, and if you can build something led of that quality, it could potentially be pretty maintenance free.


----------

