# Surprise!!



## Jimeatslead (Mar 23, 2011)

Was supposed to install 4 hand dryers in a bathroom of a large facility. Panel another jman started from I finished running the pipe from. Opened the panel cover on what I thought had lots of room. There were about 12 breakers installed in this QOB panel. When I took the dead front off, all the blank spaces did not have bus fingers horizontal to the vertical buss bars! I have never come across this before. I'll try to add a pic tomorrow. Also where the the bus fingers should have been, were tamper proof screws. My guess is this panel was calc'd to only use so much, my boss thinks that it could have been for discos on a building, only 6 throws of the hand and all that, but why here in the middle of a machine shop, on an inside wall? I don't know. Anyone else come across this?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Jimeatslead said:


> Anyone else come across this?


Yup. :laughing:


----------



## Jimeatslead (Mar 23, 2011)

Just found your thread on this same thing. A buddy of mine pm'd me w the link. I was able to pipe over to another panel, so all was not lost just a couple hours. But now i'll physically LOOK at every panel I need to get to. Lesson learned


----------



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Yup. :laughing:


Feeling better now? :laughing::laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

BBQ said:


> Feeling better now? :laughing::laughing:


Yeah, in a strange sort of way I do. :laughing:


----------



## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Always check! Most of the time you can tell the bus layout by the diagram on the loadcenter cover.
I always get suspicious when I see four extra spaces together on the top or bottom of a loadcenter.


----------



## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

A lot of manufacturers use the same can and cover for 12 and 18 circuit panels. There are others as well.

If you really get in a jam, you can usually buy an 18 circuit panel and swap the interiors. 

Again, it's not only 12 and 18 circuit ones, there are others too.


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Hey, give credit where credits due. It was I who took the dead front off and I who realized there wasn't any room left, and then I told you about it. :laughing:

It was also me who originally piped out of it, put the hole in the wall and didn't catch it the first time we were there. 

Either way, it gave us something to think about for the rest of the afternoon. :thumbup:

Here's the pictures of the panel in question:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

thegoldenboy said:


> Hey, give credit where credits due. It was I who took the dead front off and I who realized there wasn't any room left, and then I told you about it. :laughing:
> 
> It was also me who originally piped out of it, put the hole in the wall and didn't catch it the first time we were there.
> 
> ...


 
That is funny you piped out of the panel and did not notice the fingers missing..:laughing:

I have never done that..:whistling2:

well maybe once or twice..:thumbup::laughing:


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> That is funny you piped out of the panel and did not notice the fingers missing..:laughing:
> 
> I have never done that..:whistling2:
> 
> well maybe once or twice..:thumbup::laughing:


:laughing:

Well here's the thing, I was given the go ahead by the other Journeyman who started the job, so I figured he had already investigated that area seeings as he laid out the job. I was just running back up the other day because I knew the layout of the building and such, we started this actual project about a month ago and have been straight out with nobody to send back to finish. 

We all missed it. With the amount of panels in this place I was a little bewildered why there were so many spares... now we know it was just an illusion. 

He did a good job with over coming that obstacle though, I was quite impressed. 

Of course only after the driers are mounted and wired and all the wires pulled back to the panel is when I pulled the dead front off and came to this discovery. 

The panel was in a pretty congested area in the machine shop (a reputable firearms manufacturer here in MA) with a lot of equipment and crap hanging from the ceiling not to mention the workers. We left the dead front on as long as possible until it was absolutely necessary to take it off. 

OOPS.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Yup, you got an old obsolote NQO panel right there. Here's what else I learned about them. They have a dual rating. At 100 amps they are 30 circuit, at 200 they are 42 circuit. The one I mistakenly tied into was only a 30 circuit/100 amps, hence the missing fingers.

Funny thing with those tamperproof screws. Mine had regular screws so I could add more bus fingers. :thumbup:


----------



## Jimeatslead (Mar 23, 2011)

Your right gb! Your the best im the worst! I'm glad u got those pics! It makes it even funnier that YOU were the one who ran the pipe!


----------



## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Jimeatslead said:


> Your right gb! Your the best im the worst! I'm glad u got those pics! It makes it even funnier that YOU were the one who ran the pipe!


Jim, it wasn't your fault or mistake or your oversight. It was ours and when I say ours I mean myself and the person who started the job, not you. The crash course was already established, the ball was already rolling, you were just along for the ride and you came up with a damn good way around it with minimal down time. 

Don't let the shop bully you into thinking it's something you should've caught. Crap happens man, and you took that crap and made it smell like roses. Like I already said, I'm impressed with the solution you came up with.


----------

