# Lighting in a machine shed



## Sparkyelectrician

I'm trying to determine what kind of light i should install in a 80' X 144' machine shed with 18' walls. It's only used for storage of farm equipment except in one corner where there will be a small shop area. I was thinking of just doing porcelain fixtures with 300 watt cfls. There would be 3 rows and the lights would 16' apart in each row. I'm counting 27 lights. I'm trying to get some feedback, has anyone wired something like this shed? And if so would my plan work?


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## backstay

I have done a few. Your 3 rows give you 26 ft between rows with 13 ft from the edge. Too far apart for me, but I use 150 watt bulbs. How many circuits? Your over 67 amps with 27, 300 watt bulbs. I would go with 4 rows, 10 ft in from the sides and 20 ft between them. Each row would have 8 fixtures for 32 total. each row can be on it's own switch and circuit( 10 amps).


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## 480sparky

Sparkyelectrician said:


> ....... I was thinking of just doing porcelain fixtures with 300 watt cfls. .......


Doesn't it kinda get cold this time of year in Illinois?


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## muck

At 18 ft., I would use led screw in floods - I think it would be worth the cost and they would last longer.


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## Cletis

*21*

I'd do 3 x 7 lights. 300 watt induction high bays


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## electricalwiz

Cletis said:


> I'd do 3 x 7 lights. 300 watt induction high bays


 
I think the 300 watt induction will be too bright for that mounting height, the most I would do is 200 watt at that mounting height, probably more like a 150 watt for the height


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## Cletis

*18*

then maybe 3 x 5 

way cheaper to go 300 for less fixtures than other way. cheaper per total watt

Ex. 1 21 x 150 watts cost me $ 340 = $6,510 / 150 $43/watt 3,150 watts 

Ex 2 15 x 300 watts cost me $ 390 = $ 5,850 / 300 $ 19/watt 4,500 watts 

Ex 2 looks good. Light will spread out evenly


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## thoenew

What's the interior like? White tin?


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## Stab&Shoot

T5 highbay for sure.


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## Red

I agree with the t5 highbay. You could get 25 foot candles with 18 fixtures, 3 rows of 6 fixtures. Then just add a fixture in the corner where you want to bump the fc level up.


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## Cletis

*non*

keep in mind t-5's don't work as well in non-conditioned spaces under 55F. If that's case I'd do t-8 with good reflector system. You still can get the lumens with t-8 contrary to popular belief


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## Mshea

I would not use any single bulb luminaire to be sure we don't get strobing effect. Actually I would not use any discharge type of light like flourescent in single tube fixtures. I recall a guy in Calgary I think it was where someone grabbed a machine tool that looked stopped but it was moving. The single strip flourescent lamp ove the tool was strobing at the the right speed to make the tool look stopped. 2 Tube flourescents tend to strobe 1 then the other so the effect was not very pronounced.


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## Cletis

You can get by that by putting in a 10,000cycle ballast


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## Sparkyelectrician

No lining. just steel on outside and a dirt floor


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## backstay

Mshea said:


> I would not use any single bulb luminaire to be sure we don't get strobing effect. Actually I would not use any discharge type of light like flourescent in single tube fixtures. I recall a guy in Calgary I think it was where someone grabbed a machine tool that looked stopped but it was moving. The single strip flourescent lamp ove the tool was strobing at the the right speed to make the tool look stopped. 2 Tube flourescents tend to strobe 1 then the other so the effect was not very pronounced.


This is more like a barn for equipment not a machine shop.


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## Sparkyelectrician

backstay said:


> I have done a few. Your 3 rows give you 26 ft between rows with 13 ft from the edge. Too far apart for me, but I use 150 watt bulbs. How many circuits? Your over 67 amps with 27, 300 watt bulbs. I would go with 4 rows, 10 ft in from the sides and 20 ft between them. Each row would have 8 fixtures for 32 total. each row can be on it's own switch and circuit( 10 amps).


I was planning on using CFL's, I'm not sure the wattage they actually use but i was planning on having a switch for each row. I like the idea of 4 rows of lights but that all depends on where the nailer is located so i have a place to mount the light fixture. I know I can get 3 rows in for sure.


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## Sparkyelectrician

Keep in mind this shed is used to store farm equipment. I have installed t5 highbay light fixtures and i love them in machine shops where a lot of lumens is needed. But I need to keep the cost down and the t5 would be overkill I believe.


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## Pete m.

Sparkyelectrician said:


> Keep in mind this shed is used to store farm equipment. I have installed t5 highbay light fixtures and i love them in machine shops where a lot of lumens is needed. But I need to keep the cost down and the t5 would be overkill I believe.


When is "too much light" overkill? Especially when you need to work on something?

Pete


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## Cletis

*50fc*

I like to do at least 50fc in sheds. I don't feel right and it's kinda like...oh...there is a little light. 

If your gonna spend 4k...just make it 5k and get good light. Remember, people 50 and over need twice as much light to see things...


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## backstay

Pete m. said:


> When is "too much light" overkill? Especially when you need to work on something?
> 
> Pete


But in a building this big, having to work on sometime would be best with portable lighting. I also run retractable drop cords to places in the middle. That way you don't have cords getting run over by large equipment and you can plug in block heaters or work lights.


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## frenchelectrican

The other thing I know it may affect some area that you can not have any exposed bulbs in AG building so I do not know if that will affect in your state.

Merci.
Marc


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## TOOL_5150

frenchelectrican said:


> The other thing I know it may affect some area that you can not have any exposed bulbs in AG building so I do not know if that will affect in your state.
> 
> Merci.
> Marc



Im sure the AG guys expose their bulbs more often than you think.:brows:


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## frenchelectrican

TOOL_5150 said:


> Im sure the AG guys expose their bulbs more often than you think.:brows:


Ouais ( Yeah ) I know what you getting to that more like a .,, either dome or bun warmer.

However unforetally that is true I have see it alot when someone is not carefull they will do pretty good damage to them.

In fact with state of Wisconsin I know they say no exposed bulbs in tractor shed or hay storage building. ya know where this going with tractor shed I have see some did converted to hay bale storage and manged to knock few lightbulbs out ( one did got started a fire but they put it out quick due their quick thinking ) 

And the last service call I have dealt with it was one AG building with tractor shed that was used as hay bale storage they did manged knock out 6 large MH lowbay luminaires (BTW they are hard mounted not on the hook mount :blink: )

Merci,
Marc


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## Wireman191

480sparky said:


> Doesn't it kinda get cold this time of year in Illinois?


 I have One CFL outside, That sucker takes forever to get bright!


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## rdevarona

For an inactive space like this in an area that can get cold, I would probably go with a 4 lamp T8 vapor tight fixture to provide general lighting and then rely on portable lighting if I had to work on something in the middle of the space. I drew up the layout below that shows you can get an average of 17 fc using the (27) 4 lamp T8 fixtures. Consumption would be just over 120W per fixture. I think this fixture has a good balance of cost and performance for the given space.

If you wanted more light, you could go with a 4 lamp T5HO version of the same fixture and get up to 35 fc with the same number of fixtures. Consumption would go up to about 228 W per fixture.










I should point out that the file I had for the T8 VT did not have a specular reflector. A fixture with a specular reflector will give you a higher light level.

Regards,

rdv


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## Sparkyelectrician

Pete m. said:


> When is "too much light" overkill? Especially when you need to work on something?
> 
> Pete


I didnt mean too much light. I was just thinking the farmer wasnt wanting to spend much on the light fixture, and he likes to maintain everything himself which its sad to say but his electric as well. I know he would rather just unscrew a light bulb rather than change a ballast.


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## Cletis

*hey*



Sparkyelectrician said:


> I didnt mean too much light. I was just thinking the farmer wasnt wanting to spend much on the light fixture, and he likes to maintain everything himself which its sad to say but his electric as well. I know he would rather just unscrew a light bulb rather than change a ballast.


Hey, instead of wasting all this time just tell us how much he (I mean you) want's to spend and we will work around that or possible just laugh for a bit. :thumbup:


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## backstay

rdevarona said:


> For an inactive space like this in an area that can get cold, I would probably go with a 4 lamp T8 vapor tight fixture to provide general lighting and then rely on portable lighting if I had to work on something in the middle of the space. I drew up the layout below that shows you can get an average of 17 fc using the (27) 4 lamp T8 fixtures. Consumption would be just over 120W per fixture. I think this fixture has a good balance of cost and performance for the given space.
> 
> If you wanted more light, you could go with a 4 lamp T5HO version of the same fixture and get up to 35 fc with the same number of fixtures. Consumption would go up to about 228 W per fixture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should point out that the file I had for the T8 VT did not have a specular reflector. A fixture with a specular reflector will give you a higher light level.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> rdv


 The OP was going to put in 27 lamp holders. You now are up to 27 four lamp T8 fixtures. I think you have gone off the reservation.


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## Sparkyelectrician

I think im going to go with 4 rows of porcelain lights. I want return business from the customer and all the farmers around the area. I think if i start putting $200 fixtures up i wont get any call-backs.


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## frenchelectrican

Sparkyelectrician said:


> I think im going to go with 4 rows of porcelain lights. I want return business from the customer and all the farmers around the area. I think if i start putting $200 fixtures up i wont get any call-backs.


If I were ya try to demostate one luminarie to show them to get them a idea how bright it is compared to stanard 300 watter twister is.

Merci.
Marc


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## garfield

I would go with 2 T-8 strip lights by the door on a switch for immediate light and the rest I would try to sell used metal halides for about $50 with new lamps. Payback for fluorescent or anything is nonexistent with such few hours of usage. They can get awesome light compared to your porcelains and you can hang these about 1 for every 3 or 4 of the others so it can be faster and you don't have to recycle the metal halides. Show them 1 installed and they will be sold.


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## frenchelectrican

garfield said:


> I would go with 2 T-8 strip lights by the door on a switch for immediate light and the rest I would try to sell used metal halides for about $50 with new lamps. Payback for fluorescent or anything is nonexistent with such few hours of usage. They can get awesome light compared to your porcelains and you can hang these about 1 for every 3 or 4 of the others so it can be faster and you don't have to recycle the metal halides. Show them 1 installed and they will be sold.


That is the other good idea as well.

Just make sure they are enclosed bottom lens that all.

Merci,
Marc


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## kaboler

Nobody mentioned T12. They're fine for cold weather.


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## frenchelectrican

kaboler said:


> Nobody mentioned T12. They're fine for cold weather.


 Not the stanard T-12 the High outputs but that slowly dropping out of flavour once you know the lumines et wattage vs the common T-5 or T-8 ( 4 or 6 lampers ) 

Merci,
Marc


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## kaboler

But they're the only flourescent tube good enough for cold weather applications.


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## Cletis

*I*

Induction is good to -40F below ....:whistling2:


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## mbednarik

kaboler said:


> But they're the only flourescent tube good enough for cold weather applications.


T5 Ho fixtures are rated to -20 f. Most t8 fixtures are rated to 0.


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## shineretrofits

I think 4-lamp T5HO's might be too much, it usually creates some hotspots under 20ft or so mounting height. 

I like the idea of the 150W CFL / Maxlite Highmax High Bay fixtures or

3-Lamp T5HO high bays or

5 Lamp T8's (high factor 1.15 ballast) 

It seems like he doesn't need super brightness, and if you go with 5000k standard lamps that should take care of the color quality.


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## Cletis

Id go .90 ballast factor with 3000 lumen 5000k full spectrum bulbs then


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