# Voltage in pool water



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

Is the water bonded as required by the current code?


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## Shocker_28345 (Aug 1, 2011)

Yes it is bonded. I met with the utility company and he cut the power at the transformer and we pulled the meter and when I unhooked there neutral conductor from the service I was reading about 9 volts to ground from there neutral. I also completely isolated the pool from all power sources and the voltage remained until I unhooked there neutral conductor and the voltage would disappear. The only other way I could get the voltage to go away was by unhooking the equipment grounding conductor from the service to the pool motor. I hooked it back up because that goes against everything I have ever learned. I feel like it is something on the utility companies side but they don't seem to want to fix it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

If you turn off the main to the house and you still get voltage at the pool then there is an issue with the power company. If the water pipes are part of a community well or city water and are metal you could be getting voltage from another home. 

Disconnect the grounding electrode conductor that goes to the water pipe and see what happens.

Also I got the feeling you drove a rod at the pool. This is unnecessary and may in fact be some of the problem.

The reality is that the water and the handrail are not at the same potential so something is not quite right. Try those things and see what happens.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Shocker_28345 said:


> I have a customer that is getting about 4 volts between the water and the hand rails on there pool.


How did they figure this out? 
How did you test it? 
Are they actually feeling something?





don_resqcapt19 said:


> Is the water bonded as required by the current code?





Shocker_28345 said:


> Yes it is bonded.


Wow, so the water is bonded yet there is still a problem? What a surprise.  
That newly required water bond sure is an effective thing, isn't it? :whistling2:

This is one of the most idiotic code requirements I have seen a long time.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*2014*

I heard they are going to require air bonding in louisiana, mississippi with the high humidity levels in summer.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Cletis said:


> I heard they are going to require air bonding in louisiana, mississippi with the high humidity levels in summer.


For a professional troll, that's pretty funny. :laughing:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Wow, so the water is bonded yet there is still a problem? What a surprise.
> That newly required water bond sure is an effective thing, isn't it? :whistling2:
> 
> This is one of the most idiotic code requirements I have seen a long time.



My hat off to you sir.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Water bonds that energize pools, AFCIs that shut off fireplace exhaust fans while melting wires right off the terminal, The NEC is looking real good. I'm waiting for something to blow up in thier face and blow these scam devices wide open.LOL, LOL,LOL.........Socialism anyone ?


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Shockdoc said:


> Water bonds that energize pools, AFCIs that shut off fireplace exhaust fans while melting wires right off the terminal, The NEC is looking real good. I'm waiting for something to blow up in thier face and blow these scam devices wide open.LOL, LOL,LOL.........Socialism anyone ?


I'm with you. Next, they will be "bad-mouthing" power savers.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

I am not convinced that the water bond will really do much of anything, with the exception of making a GFCI trip if something connected to a 2 wire cord is dropped into the water. 

That being said, if everything that touches the water and all of the metal parts and the perimeter surfaces are bonded together, then everything should be at the same voltage. Even where there is an elevated neutral to ground voltage, the bonding should raise everything associated with the pool to the same voltage.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> I am not convinced that the water bond will really do much of anything, with the exception of making a GFCI trip if something connected to a 2 wire cord is dropped into the water.
> 
> That being said, if everything that touches the water and all of the metal parts and the perimeter surfaces are bonded together, then everything should be at the same voltage. Even where there is an elevated neutral to ground voltage, the bonding should raise everything associated with the pool to the same voltage.


I would like to know if any research and engineering went into this, or if it was some member of the particular panels life long idea to save swimmers.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

brian john said:


> I would like to know if any research and engineering went into this, or if it was some member of the particular panels life long idea to save swimmers.


I was thinking exactly the same thing when Dennis showed me that you now (since the 08 code) have to attach the bond tail to the pool pump motor equip grounding conductor if there is a double insulated pump. That in my opinion enhances the possibility of raising the voltage at a pool to a dangerous level, eqi-pot- grid or not.....


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Cletis said:


> I heard they are going to require air bonding in louisiana, mississippi with the high humidity levels in summer.


Are they using a skyhook?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_(cable)


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

LARMGUY said:


> Are they using a skyhook?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_(cable)



Good one...:laughing:


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

brian john said:


> I would like to know if any research and engineering went into this, or if it was some member of the particular panels life long idea to save swimmers.


It was based on a report from the National Electric Energy Testing, Research and Applications Center at Georgia Tech. I can't find my copy of the full report, but *here* is a presentation based on that research report.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> It was based on a report from the National Electric Energy Testing, Research and Applications Center at Georgia Tech. I can't find my copy of the full report, but *here* is a presentation based on that research report.


Is this what you were looking for don?.....

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/CodesStandards/TIAErrataFI/ProposedTIA936NFPA70.pdf


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## Shocker_28345 (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks for all the help guys I met with the utility company this morning and they sent a different guy and he found that the transformer feeding the house was bleeding thru on the neutral causing the voltage.


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## Shocker_28345 (Aug 1, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> How did they figure this out?
> How did you test it?
> Are they actually feeling something?
> 
> ...


They found it by sitting on the edge of the pool on top of a metal expansion joint for the concrete with there legs in the water and they noticed the shock. To test it all you have to do is put one lead of the meter in the water and the other lead of the meter to metal around the pool such as expansion joints, hand rails, diving board legs, or the coupling around the pool.


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## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Is this what you were looking for don?.....
> 
> http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/CodesStandards/TIAErrataFI/ProposedTIA936NFPA70.pdf


 Harry,
That is the one for the perimeter deck bonding. There is another one for the bonding of the water itself.


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