# Multiple grounds under same screw in panel



## Shockdoc

This is a practice I've been doing since the mid 80s to maximize neutral space. I have had a competing electrician in one of my panels on an estimate where he informed the homeowner it was in violation of the code . I assured the customer the job was in compliance and that only the neutral (white) wires are required to be placed one per terminal. There has been debate over this and I'm wondering what the community feels about this. Thank you for your feedback.


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## william1978

Some panels are listed for 2 wires of the same size under the same lug. I have mostly seen that in load centers.


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## NolaTigaBait

Shockdoc said:


> This is a practice I've been doing since the mid 80s to maximize neutral space. I have had a competing electrician in one of my panels on an estimate where he informed the homeowner it was in violation of the code . I assured the customer the job was in compliance and that only the neutral (white) wires are required to be placed one per terminal. There has been debate over this and I'm wondering what the community feels about this. Thank you for your feedback.


I agree neutrals only under one screw no matter what...grounds are ok if the lug is listed for more than one conductor...


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## JohnJ0906

Shockdoc said:


> This is a practice I've been doing since the mid 80s to maximize neutral space. I have had a competing electrician in one of my panels on an estimate where he informed the homeowner it was in violation of the code . I assured the customer the job was in compliance and that only the neutral (white) wires are required to be placed one per terminal. There has been debate over this and I'm wondering what the community feels about this. Thank you for your feedback.


Usually legal. It all depends on the rating of the ground bar. Most load centers (that I am aware of) allow 2 or 3 #14 or #12 EGCs per hole.
As I recall, SquareD allows 2, CH allows 3. You just need to check the panel itself. It is usually located on the chart that shows the various torque values.

If there is no mention of multiple conductors per terminal, than 1 only. 110.14(A)


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## manchestersparky

This information should be listed on the panels label, like john said.


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## Toronto Sparky

common sense rules


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## jwjrw

Usally the sticker in the panel tells you how many grounds are allowed under a screw. Cutler Hammer does allow 3 of the same size and I usally put 3 under each screw. Show your customer the sticker or go to the panel manufacture web site and you can probably print the information off it.


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## Shockdoc

jwjrw said:


> Usally the sticker in the panel tells you how many grounds are allowed under a screw. Cutler Hammer does allow 3 of the same size and I usally put 3 under each screw. Show your customer the sticker or go to the panel manufacture web site and you can probably print the information off it.


Back before the 02 code change I would put double neutrals under a screw. That code change only specified grounded conductors to be placed one per terminal. Does not mention the grounding conductor at all, The customer read that article and understood my installation.


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## jwjrw

Shockdoc said:


> Back before the 02 code change I would put double neutrals under a screw. That code change only specified grounded conductors to be placed one per terminal. Does not mention the grounding conductor at all, The customer read that article and understood my installation.


The change was for the neutrals but the panel manufacture tells you how many grounds are allowed under a screw on the ground bar. It usally tells you on the sticker in the panel.


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## JohnJ0906

Shockdoc said:


> Back before the 02 code change I would put double neutrals under a screw. That code change only specified grounded conductors to be placed one per terminal. Does not mention the grounding conductor at all, The customer read that article and understood my installation.


FWIW, that was probably a 110.14(A) violation before '02. I am not aware of any panel that was rated for 2 neutrals under one screw.


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## Mike_586

JohnJ0906 said:


> Usually legal. It all depends on the rating of the ground bar. Most load centers (that I am aware of) allow 2 or 3 #14 or #12 EGCs per hole.
> As I recall, SquareD allows 2, CH allows 3. You just need to check the panel itself. It is usually located on the chart that shows the various torque values.
> 
> If there is no mention of multiple conductors per terminal, than 1 only. 110.14(A)


Probably goes without saying but all the ones I can remember say if you're using multiple conductors they all have to be the same size and same material. No mixing and matching copper and aluminum under a terminal.

Now that I think of it, I've never really noticed if they say anything specific about mixing and matching stranded and solid. I just don't do it as a matter of personal preference. If it is allowed, I'm in compliance, if it isn't I'm still in compliance my way.


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## Shockdoc

JohnJ0906 said:


> FWIW, that was probably a 110.14(A) violation before '02. I am not aware of any panel that was rated for 2 neutrals under one screw.


Many homes back in the 70's had all the neutrals (6 or 8of them) all under one screw. Hacks ! In the 80's I used to double neutral the old Murray double stack neutral bars on the high end 40 ckt w/ 40 circuits panels . I have heard of "green" electricians occasionally loosening 3 wire ckt neutrals while energized because of double and tripled neutrals and working for free that day.


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