# Side jobs during apprenticeship?



## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

It depends on your area. In Florida, you can get arrested for contracting without a license. Small repairs, such as replacing receptacles and switches, don't require a permit and don't usually throw you into competition with your employer, so you're pretty safe in doing those


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Probably not legally but I did a bunch of side jobs as an apprentice... most guys do side work, but just be careful with who you're doing side jobs and how you're coming across them. Could bite you one day.

Of course on this website, you're going to get eaten alive for even suggesting doing side work as an apprentice! :laughing:


----------



## whatryou (May 18, 2014)

I'm not saying it will be my main source of work. I'm California (la), is it common here?


----------



## zac (May 11, 2009)

whatryou said:


> I'm not saying it will be my main source of work. I'm California (la), is it common here?


No. If the job is over $600.00 you need to be licensed. Also you are not insured and no one will insure you unless you are a licensed contractor.


----------



## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

what kind of electrical work do you know how to do?


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

whatryou said:


> I wanted to know if you're able to do side jobs (residential) during your apprenticeship? Thanks.


Yea what's the harm? When I was just starting out, customers would ask for an extra outlet here, a light there, change a single pole to a 3-way, but when the shop gave the price they balked so I did it right then and there for 1/2 the price! Doubled my income, tax-free cash, and I don't regret it a bit - an apprentice is supposed to be under DIRECT SUPERVISION and since I never was, I got away with it. It's not really stealing because the shop at their prices was never gonna get the work anyway. Although I did use company materials, I would replace what I used from time to time if I could.


----------



## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

IslandGuy said:


> Yea what's the harm? When I was just starting out, customers would ask for an extra outlet here, a light there, change a single pole to a 3-way, but when the shop gave the price they balked so I did it right then and there for 1/2 the price! Doubled my income, tax-free cash, and I don't regret it a bit - an apprentice is supposed to be under DIRECT SUPERVISION and since I never was, I got away with it. It's not really stealing because the shop at their prices was never gonna get the work anyway. Although I did use company materials, I would replace what I used from time to time if I could.


Way to troll haha


----------



## whatryou (May 18, 2014)

I'm gonna apply to the union in the next few days. Just wondering really. I have no electrical experience whatsoever.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Way to troll haha


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## JMV (Aug 10, 2013)

I help out family and friends for cost of materials. I enjoy the extra experience I get since I work commercial and I love helping people. 

I'm also honest with them if/when they need to call a contractor to pull a permit and what scope of work they should expect, or if the work is just over my head.


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

whatryou said:


> I'm gonna apply to the union in the next few days. Just wondering really. I have no electrical experience whatsoever.


From what I understand, the union is really against side work. It could get you in some serious conflict with the union and other union workers if caught or found out. This question could be better for the union forum.


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

I was under the impression the union paid so well you wouldn't need to waste your time doing little guy work.


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

AllWIRES said:


> I was under the impression the union paid so well you wouldn't need to waste your time doing little guy work.


:laughing: ohhhh snap no u ditn't! :laughing:


----------



## AllWIRES (Apr 10, 2014)

FrunkSlammer said:


> :laughing: ohhhh snap no u ditn't! :laughing:


:laughing:


----------



## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

the OP is a real tool. any volunteers to hold his hand?


----------



## whatryou (May 18, 2014)

Fantastic


----------



## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

AllWIRES said:


> I was under the impression the union paid so well you wouldn't need to waste your time doing little guy work.


 True, I dont NEED the money-I just like it.

Plus, if I can snag work from a union hater I will do it with a song in my heart and a smile on my face.


----------



## kgb62 (Oct 23, 2011)

lefleuron said:


> True, I dont NEED the money-I just like it. Plus, if I can snag work from a union hater I will do it with a song in my heart and a smile on my face.


Troll


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

IslandGuy said:


> Yea what's the harm? When I was just starting out, customers would ask for an extra outlet here, a light there, change a single pole to a 3-way, but when the shop gave the price they balked so I did it right then and there for 1/2 the price! Doubled my income, tax-free cash, and I don't regret it a bit - an apprentice is supposed to be under DIRECT SUPERVISION and since I never was, I got away with it. It's not really stealing because the shop at their prices was never gonna get the work anyway. Although I did use company materials, I would replace what I used from time to time if I could.


Wow, that's some great con work for your mind. IMO, you were stealing from your boss and it sounds like you justified it because he did not properly supervise you.

If any problem arose, his insurance would have been dragged into the issue (since you were his employee), so you took his material, didn't have your own insurance, you weren't legally licensed to perform electrical contracting work, and I bet you even stayed on the clock while you did this.

I'm sorry (because I often agree with your posts) but I am of the opinion you are fooling yourself. You stole from your boss, period. If you did that working for me and I caught you I would fire you on the spot and fight any unemployment claims.


----------



## the-apprentice (Jun 11, 2012)

i did my old mans house and a basement for a family member,they both had H.O permits.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

hardworkingstiff said:


> Wow, that's some great con work for your mind. IMO, you were stealing from your boss and it sounds like you justified it because he did not properly supervise you.


 How is it stealing? The customers ask for a price, I get the price, customer says no fxxxxng way. Can you do it on the side? Boss was NEVER going to get the extras and from the prices charged, was not interested in getting extras. Probably due to the fact that in new housing the permits are already filed for what the home was going to get and the additional paperwork from amending the permit and inspection to collecting the check just wasn't worth it to them. 

My point about not being properly supervised was to enlighten - this is what happens in the real world when you send 2nd year apprentices out to do journeymen electrician's work and charge for journeyman electrician's work while pocketing the difference. THAT'S STEALING TOO. 



> If any problem arose, his insurance would have been dragged into the issue (since you were his employee), so you took his material, didn't have your own insurance, you weren't legally licensed to perform electrical contracting work, and I bet you even stayed on the clock while you did this.


 Now let's look at this statement- what difference would it make between a problem arising like a short circuit or a fire between the extra light or extra 3-way, or any one of the other couple of hundred receptacles, switches and lights and boiler and a/c compressors and air handlers I wired? Say the house burns down, do you really thing the ins. co. is going to forensically dig through the rubble and determine that there were 2 or 3 additional items in the home that exceed what the permit application and inspection called for? That would be written off and ignored as a clerical error. And why would I make a grave error that's threatening to life or property any more for an extra than any of the other permitted work I did? 

Come to think of it, It was never discovered even though I didn't always do the finish even though I roughed. Because the work was always done properly and was no different then any of the regular work I did so there was never any red flags.

As I remember, the boss wanted 250.00 for a single point double floodlight under a 2nd story roof soffit and 200.00 for the switch, and instructions were to put it on any local 15a circuit. $450.00 is big money back in 1984. $550.00 for a pair of 3-ways instead. 


> I'm sorry (because I often agree with your posts) but I am of the opinion you are fooling yourself. You stole from your boss, period. If you did that working for me and I caught you I would fire you on the spot and fight any unemployment claims.


I doubt if I worked for you that you would, not if you're a reasonable man. You'd ask me why I did it, and I'd tell you they asked you for a price and wouldn't go for it. They offered me 1/2 the price cash and so I did it after hours with my own material (I'd lie about that to save face) and you'd probably offer for me to do it on the side anyway knowing what a great worker I was and how dependable I was and the fact that not once, ever, has a home or job I wired for you ever had any uh-ohs or missing switchlegs or f-d up 3-ways or overloaded circuits or any of the other time and money wasting f-ups other guys were doing. (unknowingly.)

As for material theft - this was a time a roll of 14/2 was 30 bucks and a couple of plastic boxes cost pennies. We didn't even drill horizontally it wasn't worth it time wise to not just go up and over. Builder grade switches, and on these jobsites more staples ended up on the floors than nailed into the studs. a 1/4 roll of 14/2 was considered scrap and tossed in the dumpster. 

Besides, you'd have know I was a go-getter the entire time anyway.


----------



## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

I think you've missed a very important point. You solicited your company's customer. Not only did you 'steal' a customer directly from your boss, you did it while on the clock. 

It's disgusting. 



> (I'd lie about that to save face)


 and you're clearly aware.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

*One way to look at*

Boss bids the job tight (in order to keep the men working), very low margin, thinking I'll make this up on the extras.

The customer had some extras and finds out the game of bidding low and making it up on extras is for real.

You decide your boss is being unrealistic because you know his cost of overhead and methodology of conducting his business better than he does. Before you decided to "take" the work, the customer had basically 2 choices, pay and get the extras or don't pay and don't get the extras. Getting another EC to come in and add to a roughin would be pretty hard to do (I hope).

So you step in, and now the customer has a 3rd option, pay cash to the guy doing the work and get it done for 1/2 price. They get the same product they would have if they paid your boss. You get some extra cash. So, homeowner wins, worker wins, EC gets shafted.

You took away any bargaining power your boss had in this situation.

I hope you are every bit as good a worker as you say you are because you have to make it up to the boss somehow.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I understand where you're coming from Hardworkingstiff but you're not understanding the fact that via his pricing, the boss wasn't interested in extras. His game was volume. Keep it simple. Get in and get out. (And don't make mistakes.) Some here price digging so high so that they DON'T get the work, but if they do, they make a killing but overall would still rather not get involved. I'm sure that was my boss's game with extras. 

Was I cheating? Yes. Everyone seems all over that. Was the boss cheating by having apprentices working as journeymen? Yes. But not a PEEP about the boss cheating for his own personal gain here, right? Seems a double standard is rearing it's ugly head here.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I did a few side jobs as an apprentice for family friends and never did make much money at it. I ended up selling work boots part time at a retail store. Scraped up enough money to buy my first house as a second year. It was a decrepit old shack out of town, cheapest on the market, but it was a house  .


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

bkmichael65 said:


> It depends on your area. In Florida, you can get arrested for contracting without a license.


I'd like to see one example of someone actually being arrested. With all the horrible work I've seen in Florida, I doubt they put much effort into enforcement. :no:


----------



## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

MTW said:


> I'd like to see one example of someone actually being arrested. With all the horrible work I've seen in Florida, I doubt they put much effort into enforcement. :no:


Very first google search result:
www.cbs46.com/story/24916196/20-unlicensed-contractors-arrested-in-polk-county


----------



## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

bkmichael65 said:


> Very first google search result:
> www.cbs46.com/story/24916196/20-unlicensed-contractors-arrested-in-polk-county


I meant electrical contracting.


----------



## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

MTW said:


> I meant electrical contracting.


6 of those were arrested for unlicensed electrical contracting. Just scroll through the mugshots and count them for yourself if you don't believe me. Florida is a pretty big state. For everybody they catch doing unlicensed work, I'm sure there are a 100 that they don't catch, but that seems to be the case in any state that I've lived in


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I doubt any of those arrested were for putting in 3 or 4 extra devices after roughing the entire house legitimately.


----------



## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

IslandGuy said:


> I doubt any of those arrested were for putting in 3 or 4 extra devices after roughing the entire house legitimately.


No, I imagine you're safe for the time being


----------



## Champ Sessions (May 25, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> I doubt any of those arrested were for putting in 3 or 4 extra devices after roughing the entire house legitimately.


Champ says that's the same mentality of handyman. So now a fan install (rough in box, wire to the switch and hang the fan) is the same price as it was 15 years ago. Champ no like!
When you work under the table you and the thousand others are chipping away our profit. If you are going to do side work illegally, don't short change us.


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

The same mentality could be said for any task that has an industry and workers already doing it. 

Don't install your own shower head, don't cut your own lawn, don't paint your house, don't change your oil or replace your brake pads, don't polish your shoes, don't trim your bush (yes both types), don't make your own coffee, don't install an appliance, don't type your own posts, don't wipe your butt.... 

Seriously who cares, I don't even want to work for cheap people like me who do everything themselves. I don't hire anyone for anything.. unless it's really laborious, then I'd rather have some other shmuck slaving away at it for peanuts.


----------



## Champ Sessions (May 25, 2014)

FrunkSlammer said:


> The same mentality could be said for any task that has an industry and workers already doing it.
> 
> Don't install your own shower head, don't cut your own lawn, don't paint your house, don't change your oil or replace your brake pads, don't polish your shoes, don't trim your bush (yes both types), don't make your own coffee, don't install an appliance, don't type your own posts, don't wipe your butt....
> 
> Seriously who cares, I don't even want to work for cheap people like me who do everything themselves. I don't hire anyone for anything.. unless it's really laborious, then I'd rather have some other shmuck slaving away at it for peanuts.


There is a difference between doing it yourself and making a profit at it.


----------



## EB Electric (Feb 8, 2013)

Champ Sessions said:


> Champ says that's the same mentality of handyman. So now a fan install (rough in box, wire to the switch and hang the fan) is the same price as it was 15 years ago. Champ no like!
> When you work under the table you and the thousand others are chipping away our profit. If you are going to do side work illegally, don't short change us.


Champ says, Champ no like, Champ speaks in 3rd person, why? Sounds more like a chump.


----------



## Champ Sessions (May 25, 2014)

EB Electric said:


> Champ says, Champ no like, Champ speaks in 3rd person, why? Sounds more like a chump.


Does this suit you better? Name calling doesn't go will with Champ.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

IslandGuy said:


> ...
> apprentices out to do journeymen electrician's work and charge for journeyman electrician's work while pocketing the difference. THAT'S STEALING TOO.
> ....


What a contractor charges his customers for labor is not required to be related to what he pays the worker. Now if he actually told the customer he was sending a journeyman, that would be fraud, but most contractors don't use the terms journeyman and apprentice in their contracts or when talking to customers.


----------



## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

Champ Sessions said:


> Does this suit you better? Name calling doesn't go will with Champ.


If I had to listen to this all day on a job site I would hurl myself off the rooftop to my impending death.


----------



## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

whatryou said:


> I wanted to know if you're able to do side jobs (residential) during your apprenticeship? Thanks.


Likely not if a permit is required because you're unlicensed and uninsured.



CanadianSparky said:


> If I had to listen to this all day on a job site I would hurl myself off the rooftop to my impending death.


I'd throw _something_ off the roof...


----------



## That_Dude (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm only an apprentice and I do some data and low volt work on the side. CompTIA A+ certified too so I fix computers as well. Easy money. :thumbsup:


----------



## Kunolop (Feb 9, 2013)

I probably wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't do side jobs as an apprentice. I know it was not right and I took a risk and the money was great. I also got f*#ked on side jobs, cause when you deal with this crowd that is what happens! I hope most of us have morals and do not steal from their employer, don't bite the hand that feeds! A couple hun is not worth your job whether your a go getter or not. Islandguy should be ashamed of himself and should be fired for this, it's hard to believe that he feels that using company materials and probably time is perfectly fine to undercut his employer because his boss was pricing it not to get the work. Give your head a shake man, I sure hope I don't have garbage employees like you!


----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

Islandguy, you are a thief. There is no way around the fact.
Stealing material from anyone is wrong. From your employer who trusted you, is despicable.
Did you ever think that the excess profit ( in your opinion) was justified, to make up for losses on other items? When you are driving to quoted jobs, you are being paid, but not producing. This is part of overhead
You claim you are such a great worker, with no mistakes, no material waste etc. Maybe so..
But the ONE item you can never claim to be, because you have proclaimed to all who read this forum, YOU are dishonest and a thief.
I hope that someday, a valued, honest employee, betrays you, exactly has you did.


----------



## hdgeno777 (Jan 19, 2014)

IslandGuy said:


> I understand where you're coming from Hardworkingstiff but you're not understanding the fact that via his pricing, the boss wasn't interested in extras. His game was volume. Keep it simple. Get in and get out. (And don't make mistakes.) Some here price digging so high so that they DON'T get the work, but if they do, they make a killing but overall would still rather not get involved. I'm sure that was my boss's game with extras.
> 
> Was I cheating? Yes. Everyone seems all over that. Was the boss cheating by having apprentices working as journeymen? Yes. But not a PEEP about the boss cheating for his own personal gain here, right? Seems a double standard is rearing it's ugly head here.


You stole material from your boss, regardless of what the boss did you still cheated him. Two wrongs don't make a right. Guys like you give us all a bad name


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> What a contractor charges his customers for labor is not required to be related to what he pays the worker.


 When a contractor pays an apprentice to do unsupervised inside wireman work is called wage theft. It is illegal to classify your employees as apprentices on their checks and wiremen to the customers. It is one of the biggest ways nonunion contractors get stung on PW projects.



> Now if he actually told the customer he was sending a journeyman, that would be fraud, but most contractors don't use the terms journeyman and apprentice in their contracts or when talking to customers.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

IslandGuy said:


> How is it stealing? The customers ask for a price, I get the price, customer says no fxxxxng way. Can you do it on the side...?


 You were directly undercutting your bosses business while taking paychecks from him. Anyone would've fired you for it, and they'd have been right to.


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

lefleuron said:


> True, I dont NEED the money-I just like it.
> 
> Plus, if I can snag work from a union hater I will do it with a song in my heart and a smile on my face.


Pfft, you kidding me? I'll get twice as much to fix it after you're done.


----------



## don_resqcapt19 (Jul 18, 2010)

IslandGuy said:


> When a contractor pays an apprentice to do unsupervised inside wireman work is called wage theft. It is illegal to classify your employees as apprentices on their checks and wiremen to the customers. It is one of the biggest ways nonunion contractors get stung on PW projects.


I have never ever heard of a contractor telling the customer what classification of person he was sending to the job. The customer is told a price and that there will be someone there on such an such a day. If the contractor has not specified a journeyman electrician, there is no wage theft no matter who he sends to do the work.

As far as unsupervised work, that may be an issue is some areas based on their licensing laws or, in the case of a union contractor, the labor agreement. In my area one person holds the license for the contracting firm and that firm can send anyone they want to do the job. There is no requirements of any type for the person doing the job to even be an electrician. There is also no requirement for the actual license holder to ever visit the job.
There would be no legal or other issues for a contractor not signatory to a labor agreement to send an unsupervised apprentice or any other person out to the job, and there would be nothing to prevent the contractor from charging $100 an hour to the customer and paying his worker the minimum wage.


----------



## Kunolop (Feb 9, 2013)

IslandGuy said:


> When a contractor pays an apprentice to do unsupervised inside wireman work is called wage theft. It is illegal to classify your employees as apprentices on their checks and wiremen to the customers. It is one of the biggest ways nonunion contractors get stung on PW projects.


As a contractor myself i send an employee that is fully capable of the job, and charge as much as we can so we can make as much as we can on a project. I'm not stealing, sending a journeyman to change a couple bulbs is not cost effective so a capable apprentice does the job and yes I charge the full rate out. This is the nature of all businesses, were always trying to keep our costs down and charge as much as you can. Obviously you know nothing of business and or overhead of running a business. You trying to justify your theft is pathetic and I hope it catches up to you one day.


----------



## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)




----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

don_resqcapt19 said:


> I have never ever heard of a contractor telling the customer what classification of person he was sending to the job. The customer is told a price and that there will be someone there on such an such a day. If the contractor has not specified a journeyman electrician, there is no wage theft no matter who he sends to do the work.
> 
> As far as unsupervised work, that may be an issue is some areas based on their licensing laws or, in the case of a union contractor, the labor agreement. In my area one person holds the license for the contracting firm and that firm can send anyone they want to do the job. There is no requirements of any type for the person doing the job to even be an electrician. There is also no requirement for the actual license holder to ever visit the job.


 Well in my area there is - it's called direct supervision. 

Look, what I find amazing on this thread is how contractors absolve themselves 100% of all wrongdoing while chastising a worker who was getting screwed. You all think WAY too highly of yourselves. Kettle, meet pot. Imagine this - contractors are preaching MORALITY to ME!!! Give it a rest, you're all most from what I see, not exactly angels. 

Direct supervision can mean many things to many people, but sending an employee ALONE to complete a job start to finish ALONE doesn't fit the bill in the eyes of ANY jury, except a jury made up entirely of contractors. This is a game you've been playing and getting away with for years, especially on the nonunion front but it's not unheard of on the union side either.

When you contract with a customer they reasonably expect an ELECTRICIAN to be doing ELECTRICAL WORK, not a helper or an apprentice, and, IF you're confident enough that an apprentice or helper can handle a job on his own, the right thing, the MORAL thing to do is pay JOURNEYMAN'S wage.



> There would be no legal or other issues for a contractor not signatory to a labor agreement to send an unsupervised apprentice or any other person out to the job, and there would be nothing to prevent the contractor from charging $100 an hour to the customer and paying his worker the minimum wage.


 There would be legal or "other issues" if the unsupervised apprentice messed up and caused serious damage. Imagine the prosecutor asking this:

"Sir, did your ad in the yellow pages indicate "Qualified, licensed electrician" or "We'll just send out a 2-year helper to your home or business???"


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

How can it be stealing if it was just extra materials that the EC didn't even know he was missing? I think this is all being blown out of proportion.


----------



## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

five.five-six said:


> How can it be stealing if it was just extra materials that the EC didn't even know he was missing? I think this is all being blown out of proportion.


Are you doing it again 5.56? I'm not biting this time!


----------



## bkmichael65 (Mar 25, 2013)

Legacyelectric said:


> Are you doing it again 5.56? I'm not biting this time!


He needs to create an alter ego account for trolling. Be on the lookout for new member screen names like 7.62 or .223


----------



## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

IslandGuy said:


> Yea what's the harm? When I was just starting out, customers would ask for an extra outlet here, a light there, change a single pole to a 3-way, but when the shop gave the price they balked so I did it right then and there for 1/2 the price! Doubled my income, tax-free cash, and I don't regret it a bit - an apprentice is supposed to be under DIRECT SUPERVISION and since I never was, I got away with it. It's not really stealing because the shop at their prices was never gonna get the work anyway. Although I did use company materials, I would replace what I used from time to time if I could.


There is one major flaw in your entire argument that you have neglected. 


> they balked so I did it right then and there for 1/2 the price


Not only did you "borrow" your companies material, but since you


> did it right then and there


 You did all of it all on the company's watch. 

So now let's recap: company's material, company's clock, *company's customer *, all stolen or solicited.

Your comments about direct supervision is valid, you should have stopped there. Everything else is completely misinformed and disgusting. There is an enormous difference in what a company charges and what the company profits. If you don't understand this , then all is lost as far as you being a valuable employee. There are things you need to learn about business before you decide when


> the boss isn't interested in extras


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

bkmichael65 said:


> He needs to create an alter ego account for trolling. Be on the lookout for new member screen names like 7.62 or .223


LOL, no, I wouldn't do that.


If I did it would be something lame like 9mmGlock


----------



## Legacyelectric (Sep 9, 2012)

five.five-six said:


> LOL, no, I wouldn't do that. If I did it would be something lame like 9mmGlock


Troll even when talking about trolling...nice! Lol!


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)




----------



## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

uumm


----------



## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

I have, once. Family friend had his panel upgraded (and moved out of the closet... ), had the guy add a 50A breaker and a run of 6/3 to a shed mounted on the back of his house. A few months later, while I was unemployed, I dug a trench and ran PVC to continue the feeder over to a new shed for his new shop. Pulled wire, drove ground rods, installed his little 6-space subpanel and that was it. About 4 days of shovelwork (so many roots... ) and one of actual electrical. 

I don't have any plans on pursuing more. I will help out friends and family for a reasonable rate, but I won't do anything major in a house or business. If it can be paid in streak and beer, though, I am all ears.


----------



## Tapeman (Feb 24, 2009)

When I started many years ago, when my friends & relatives heard I was doing electrical work they would ask me to do small jobs for them, and I did.


----------



## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Tapeman said:


> When I started many years ago, when my friends & relatives heard I was doing electrical work they would ask me to do small jobs for them, and I did.


I think most of us did.

That's way different than taking your employer's customer, materials, and performing work for them using the bosses vehicle and materials. Way different.


----------



## buddhakii (Jan 13, 2011)

Two words come to mind. Honesty and integrity. No one is perfect but we should all strive to uphold our values. I understand Island Guy doesn't give a hoot about either of these two values which is why he will never really live up to his full potential.


----------



## Hmacanada (Jan 16, 2014)

buddhakii said:


> Two words come to mind. Honesty and integrity. No one is perfect but we should all strive to uphold our values. I understand Island Guy doesn't give a hoot about either of these two values which is why he will never really live up to his full potential.




There is a reason good customers tell you where they hide the key to their home . Honesty and integrity!!
You are a trusted asset 


Sent from my iPhone using electriciantalk.com


----------



## Mshea (Jan 17, 2011)

My answer today is not the answer I would give you in 1980. Side jobs when unqualified whether by training or licencing is risking everything you own and are building. In 1980 my total assets were a car, my late mom's furniture, a stereo, and the clothes I own so I had little to lose and frankly eating was the most important thing to make a decision upon. The laws too were much more permissive in that it was very hard to punish me hard enough to reconsider the side jobs which were often my only income.

Fortuneately I also never made any mistakes other than giving too good a price and working for a lot less than if I took a minimum wage job at McDonalds.

Today the same thing could delay your apprenticeship, It can get you off the books at the union or even remove your name. Make a big mistake and you might work for that customer for decades paying off the damages.

Every side job does take food out of a business owners mouth and that business owner could be your source of income at some time. It protects the general rates for everyone and it gives you something to work for. Yes you are stealing from yourself when you take a side job. Work for $20/hr for cash makes the owner think all electricians should work for 20 and if your boss has to keep in business the 20 might cover his cost but out of that you can get paid $5.00.

Taxes are nice to avoid but I am paying my share so why should I not expect you to pay yours too? side jobs seldom come with protection from usery by someone. Get hurt on a side job and loose 2 weeks of full paying work? Worse, get killed at work and leave you wife and baby starving?

It is now 34 years since I started as an electrician and from this viewpoint taking side jobs is undercutting all I work for. I have a good wage, good benefits and a very interesting job. I got all that inside the system. the poorest electricians I know have a problem with permits, pricing and billing, they constantly work for much lower dollars and never charge what they can because all their careers they can only work for the people looking for shortcuts and have no money or think they should just keep it all and hire the lowest skilled workers.

I just don't see how side work helped them. It seemed to set a pattern of failure rahter than independance.

I don't even do electrical work in my own home just because it is illegal in a triplex for a homeowner and I never took a contractor's licence. I had pricing and billing issues so I work for someone that doesn't.

Hey if your electrical career is intended to be very short, it really does not matter for much, but if you are planning to make a life career I would say avoid the side work it will eventually cost you something more than you would otherwise have earned in the legit market. Now changing the plugs at mom's house? you better do that one.


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Most of the materials my boss gets on account from the wholesale house, so he really shouldn't mind if I uses some to make a little extra money. Especially if he really does not have anything else for me to do on the clock. I never mentioned this to him, I just assumed he is OK with it.


----------



## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

If you guys want to do side work that's fine, I did it for my entire career while I was employed. But you really shouldn't have to hide the secret from your boss. Most employers don't have a problem with it, as long as it doesn't effect their business in any way shape or form. If you want to do side work I suggest getting that on the table during the interview process. I distinctly remember turning down two different offers simply because they hesitated before they okay. Making $400 on a weekend side job is not worth losing your day job.


----------



## fp.unit (Dec 18, 2012)

Mshow1323 said:


> If you guys want to do side work that's fine, I did it for my entire career while I was employed. But you really shouldn't have to hide the secret from your boss. Most employers don't have a problem with it, as long as it doesn't effect their business in any way shape or form. If you want to do side work I suggest getting that on the table during the interview process. I distinctly remember turning down two different offers simply because they hesitated before they okay. Making $400 on a weekend side job is not worth losing your day job.


hell nah

also can it risk your apprenticeship? I guess it depends where you live but I think it's taken seriously.

let's say joe apprentice advertises on craigslist that he's doing all residential side work jobs evenings and weekends 

some pissed off electrical contractor struggling to get by who pays his dues properly including insurance, being a master, having employees to pay and feed might get so pissed he reports the apprentice. to who, I don't know I guess it depends where you live. 

only side work id think of is friends/family.
advertising is a big hell no unless you're nuts and want to risk everything. I find these people don't even care very much about electrical anyways, fire them today and tomorrow they'll be first year plumbers.


----------



## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

fp.unit said:


> hell nah
> 
> also can it risk your apprenticeship? I guess it depends where you live but I think it's taken seriously.
> 
> ...


A lot of what you say is true. Friends/family, direct referrals fine. Advertising...that obviously would fall into the boss's "stay out of my territory" speech. 



> some pissed off electrical contractor struggling to get by who pays his dues properly including insurance, being a master, having employees to pay and feed might get so pissed he reports the apprentice. to who, I don't know I guess it depends where you live.


This assumes that all apprentices are union. There are several non union apprenticeship programs where "dues" are a non factor. So there is nobody to report/tattle too.


----------



## Jarp Habib (May 18, 2014)

I know of a _foreman_ of a major contractor who got busted for doing sidework. He was helping a buddy do some exterior electrical work on the front of his house when a city inspector passed through the neighborhood on his way to another job. The inspector stopped, asked to see license for non-exempt work and busted the foreman on the spot, suspending his license for 6 months. He didn't get fired, but spent the time working at the shop. 



Mshow1323 said:


> This assumes that all apprentices are union. There are several non union apprenticeship programs where "dues" are a non factor. So there is nobody to report/tattle too.


They could be reported to the licensing board.


----------



## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Jarp Habib said:


> I know of a _foreman_ of a major contractor who got busted for doing sidework. He was helping a buddy do some exterior electrical work on the front of his house when a city inspector passed through the neighborhood on his way to another job. The inspector stopped, asked to see license for non-exempt work and busted the foreman on the spot, suspending his license for 6 months. He didn't get fired, but spent the time working at the shop.
> 
> 
> They could be reported to the licensing board.


I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and speak for everybody here. I don't think anybody in this thread, or in the history of this electriciantalk.com forum, has ever said, or even implied, that side work was without risk. Thanks for pointing out that there once was a forman who has gotten himself into trouble.:thumbup:


----------



## five.five-six (Apr 9, 2013)

Sidework is without risk.


----------



## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

I consider this an _non_ issue :whistling2:

Given the HD crowd, along with numerous builders , maintenance men , and whatever 3 toed hackmasters proliferating our trade with _pseudo_-electrical work far more than the trade itself has or will ever inflict on itself.

We are NOT a policed trade, _when_ and _if_ we are _(don't hold yer breath :no _, the involved divisions , designations, and designees have a case 


~CS~


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Jarp Habib said:


> I know of a _foreman_ of a major contractor who got busted for doing sidework. He was helping a buddy do some exterior electrical work on the front of his house when a city inspector passed through the neighborhood on his way to another job. The inspector stopped, asked to see license for non-exempt work and busted the foreman on the spot, suspending his license for 6 months. He didn't get fired, but spent the time working at the shop.
> 
> 
> They could be reported to the licensing board.


And I know a couple of contractors, who used to regale their employees of past ex-employees caught doing sidework, summarily fired and prosecuted by the DA. Turns out, they were all FOS made-up BS stories intended to discourage the practice. 

Similar scare tactics are used in retail stores, such as Home Depot and Lowes...

The stores suffer from such huge losses due to theft, that hundreds of cameras are watching your every move from the ceiling. But consider this: Who would believe that for every camera there's an employee actually watching the visual feed... from HUNDREDS of cameras, instead of the stores placing hundreds of employees on the actual sales floor?

Answer: there aren't. The cameras serve only as a deterrent.


----------

