# CA Wiring Code Questions



## TonyFron74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Hello all;

I have a question for you all. My county is using the 2008 NEC for residential wiring. Our house is having issue with popping the circuits in the kitchen. Here's my questions:

According to code, is it legal to have Kitchen plugs, dining room plugs and refer on a single 20AMP circuit?

This house was wired with a 200 AMP square D panel for 3,852 square feet. Does code require "subpanel" in house for purpose of load or should it have been wired with a 325AMP panel?

The 5th bedroom was an upgrade from a den. It's wired on a 15AMP circuit but it's not a wired as a bedroom circuit. Is that to code?

I have my opinions on all of these issues but I want to get everyone elses thoughts on this. :thumbsup:

Thanks; 
Tony


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

TonyFron74 said:


> According to code, is it legal to have Kitchen plugs, dining room plugs and refer on a single 20AMP circuit?


 Yes as long as there is another circuit for the counter top receptacles.



> This house was wired with a 200 AMP square D panel for 3,852 square feet. Does code require "subpanel" in house for purpose of load or should it have been wired with a 325AMP panel?


 Code does not require sub panels but you may have as many as you like. The service size is based on load not number of circuits.



> The 5th bedroom was an upgrade from a den. It's wired on a 15AMP circuit but it's not a wired as a bedroom circuit. Is that to code?


 Yes if it has the required smoke detectors and AFCI if required in California.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Welcome




TonyFron74 said:


> I have a question for you all. My county is using the 2008 NEC for residential wiring.


OK, but when was the house built?




TonyFron74 said:


> Our house is having issue with popping the circuits in the kitchen. Here's my questions:
> 
> According to code, is it legal to have Kitchen plugs, dining room plugs and refer on a single 20AMP circuit?


Absolutely





TonyFron74 said:


> This house was wired with a 200 AMP square D panel for 3,852 square feet. Does code require "subpanel" in house for purpose of load or should it have been wired with a 325AMP panel?


Only the calculated load would tell you this. Did you not wire the house?





TonyFron74 said:


> The 5th bedroom was an upgrade from a den. It's wired on a 15AMP circuit but it's not a wired as a bedroom circuit. Is that to code?


What does "wired as a bedroom circuit" mean??





TonyFron74 said:


> I have my opinions on all of these issues but I want to get everyone elses thoughts on this. :thumbsup:


So what are they?


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## TonyFron74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> OK, but when was the house built?


2010



Speedy Petey said:


> Only the calculated load would tell you this. Did you not wire the house?


I did not wire the house, we purchased it brand new from the builder. It was one of the last houses in the 150 house development.





Speedy Petey said:


> What does "wired as a bedroom circuit" mean??


All of the other rooms are wired with arc fault circuits except the 5th bedroom/den. If it's a bedroom, it should be. This particular room also has a bathroom. The bathroom does have a separate circuit and there's a GFCI receptacle in there too.




Speedy Petey said:


> So what are they?


I think the panel is too small for the house. I don't know the calculated load as the house was finished when we bought it so I didn't get to talk to the wiremen who did wire it...they were LONG gone! As far the the circuit in the kitchen, when we have the toaster, a mixer and a fry pan in use in different plugs through out the kitchen, the circuit pops and it cuts off the refer. It shouldn't be doing that


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

You have lasted longer than I thought. No electrician that I know refers to circuits tripping as "popping". In any case I hope you get your answers. Welcome.


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## TonyFron74 (Jul 4, 2011)

RIVETER said:


> You have lasted longer than I thought. No electrician that I know refers to circuits tripping as "popping". In any case I hope you get your answers. Welcome.


Sorry, my wife if typing this for me since I cut off my finger and can't type anymore.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Try speading your kitchen load out, there's probably at least 2 required counter circuits in there.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

TonyFron74 said:


> Hello all;
> 
> I have a question for you all. My county is using the 2008 NEC for residential wiring. Our house is having issue with popping the circuits in the kitchen. Here's my questions:
> 
> ...


Okay, I guess you are in. I don't think that your first sentence about the dining room and refrigerator being on the same circuit is illegal.


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## TonyFron74 (Jul 4, 2011)

dronai said:


> Try speading your kitchen load out, there's probably at least 2 required counter circuits in there.


That's a good idea. Since it's a new house, I'm going to have to call the electrical contractor to come out to take a look at it. I know the circuit tripping in a house that's less than a year old is not normal. I'm also inclined to think there might be an issue with the refer since board has burned out on it. Not sure which is causing which though. :thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Mine in red:


TonyFron74 said:


> All of the other rooms are wired with arc fault circuits except the 5th bedroom/den. If it's a bedroom, it should be. This particular room also has a bathroom. The bathroom does have a separate circuit and there's a GFCI receptacle in there too. <You are correct.>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TonyFron74 (Jul 4, 2011)

All of the other rooms are wired with arc fault circuits except the 5th bedroom/den. If it's a bedroom, it should be. This particular room also has a bathroom. The bathroom does have a separate circuit and there's a GFCI receptacle in there too. <You are correct.>

That's what I thought. Just makes we wonder what else they screwed up 




I think the panel is too small for the house. <Could be, but it could also be perfectly legal as well.> I don't know the calculated load as the house was finished when we bought it so I didn't get to talk to the wiremen who did wire it...they were LONG gone! As far the the circuit in the kitchen, when we have the toaster, a mixer and a fry pan in use in different plugs through out the kitchen, the circuit pops and it cuts off the refer. It shouldn't be doing that <Absolutely idiotic circuit design, especially for a house that size, but not at all illegal, as long as there is at least one other SABC>

There is another SABC but here's the kicker...the refer is on the opposite wall from the plugs that were being used. You're 100% correct in the "idiotic circuit design". I've wired houses bigger than this and I've never seen anything like this. I've always wired 2 SABC's, Refer, Oven, Microwave/hood and garbage disposals on dedicated circuits. In fact, if it wasn't, the panel wouldn't have been signed off by the inspector! I don't understand how this one was. Especially since the circuits are tripping with normal use.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

The NEC isn't a design manual. Things you think are poor design are most often totally legal and very common for cheap home builders to do.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

You know Tony, I recently got a call from a new homeowner whom I happened to be the EC of their new house. The kitchen circuit was "popping" there as well. So I checked it out. They had a 4 slot toaster and a coffee pot plugged into the same duplex outlet. The load from the toaster was as I recall about 16 amps and the load of the coffee maker ran about 12 amps, and I don't do split wired outlets. 16+12 is 28 amps and yes that "popped" the 20 amp circuit dohickey off. I had to teach a very reluctant owner about staggering her plugged in loads, but there was nothing at all "wrong" about her kitchen wiring........


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## AFOREMA1 (Nov 23, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> You know Tony, I recently got a call from a new homeowner whom I happened to be the EC of their new house. The kitchen circuit was "popping" there as well. So I checked it out. They had a 4 slot toaster and a coffee pot plugged into the same duplex outlet. The load from the toaster was as I recall about 16 amps and the load of the coffee maker ran about 12 amps, and I don't do split wired outlets. 16+12 is 28 amps and yes that "popped" the 20 amp circuit dohickey off. I had to teach a very reluctant owner about staggering her plugged in loads, but there was nothing at all "wrong" about her kitchen wiring........


Yeah but your just a hack I should be able to plug everything into one plug so I can keep the rest of my countertop clear :whistling2:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

AFOREMA1 said:


> Yeah but your just a hack I should be able to plug everything into one plug so I can keep the rest of my countertop clear :whistling2:


Wait a minute, I'm not just a hack. I'm a bonehead hack and don't you forget it....:laughing:


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## rbj (Oct 23, 2007)

TonyFron74 said:


> Hello all;
> 
> 
> According to code, is it legal to have Kitchen plugs, dining room plugs and refer on a single 20AMP circuit?
> ...


 All green is my opinion.


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