# GFI protected egress



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I turned in some plans for review for new commercial shop for all the town's eqipment. The town approved plans, but they marked up all my plans at points of egress claiming my points of egress has to be GFI protected. Is this a madeup code? is it becaus eit's their building? :001_huh:I'm checking with them Monday.


How do you 'GFI' an egress?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BBQ said:


> How do you 'GFI' an egress?


My thoughts too. What are you gfi-ing?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> How do you 'GFI' an egress?


I assume they mean the circuit feeding all egress lighting needs to be gfi'd at the source?


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Sounds ridiculous and dangerous at the same time.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Sounds ridiculous and dangerous at the same time.


 Took the words out of my mouth.

-John


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## sfeyelectric (Dec 31, 2010)

This would more than likely be against the fire code!


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Sounds ridiculous and dangerous at the same time.


I agree. I'm gonna buck against it



sfeyelectric said:


> This would more than likely be against the fire code!


 
Can we put our finger on an article?


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## sfeyelectric (Dec 31, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I agree. I'm gonna buck against it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No i can not do not have it handy. Having been in the fire service for 18yrs im pretty sure! Call your local fire marshalls(sp) office and speak to them about it.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

What's Egress? Sorry I didn't understand. Looked it up.

Everything at doorways has to be GFI protected? It's in no code I've read.

As for exit signs, GFI plugs might be ok as long as illumination comes on when the GFI is tripped or whatever you call it. That'd be a bitch to hook up!


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kaboler said:


> What's Egress?


The way out of the building.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I agree. I'm gonna buck against it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I doubt you will find a 'no GFCI for egress lighting' code as I doubt it has come up too often.

There is one for FACPs of course.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Raider1 knows the answer! To the Bat Phone!


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Sorry! 46-400 says that Exit signs have to be on their own dedicated circuit. So either drop a GFI breaker in the panel, or they want GFI plugs to plug in all their stuff, so they can walk up and test the system by just pushing the TEST button? That's not a bad idea. Except the exit signs. Never seen a plug-in style exit sign.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

kaboler said:


> Sorry! 46-400 says that Exit signs have to be on their own dedicated circuit. So either drop a GFI breaker in the panel, or they want GFI plugs to plug in all their stuff, so they can walk up and test the system by just pushing the TEST button? That's not a bad idea. Except the exit signs. Never seen a plug-in style exit sign.


soon they will be on afci's and we will ALL die.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

kaboler said:


> Sorry! 46-400 says that Exit signs have to be on their own dedicated circuit. So either drop a GFI breaker in the panel, or they want GFI plugs to plug in all their stuff, so they can walk up and test the system by just pushing the TEST button? That's not a bad idea. Except the exit signs. Never seen a plug-in style exit sign.


 

46-400 of what? If there's less than 3 lighting circuits, I can feed them from local lighting


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

My bad, 46-400 canadian electrical code:

1) where exit signs are connected to an electrical circuit, that circuit shall be used for no other purpose.
2) Notwithstanding Subrule 1, exit signs shall be permitted to be connected to a circuit supplying emergency lighting in the area where these exit signs are installed.
3) Exit signs in Subrules 1 and 2 shall be illuminated by an emergency power supply where emergency lighting is required by the National Building Code of Canada.

I assume there's a USA equiv.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

kaboler said:


> My bad, 46-400 canadian electrical code:
> 
> 1) where exit signs are connected to an electrical circuit, that circuit shall be used for no other purpose.
> 2) Notwithstanding Subrule 1, exit signs shall be permitted to be connected to a circuit supplying emergency lighting in the area where these exit signs are installed.
> ...


 

No there's not because that's a silly rule. Here's why: If for some reason the breaker trips on that circuit in the middle of the night, no one would know it. After 90 minutes or so, the batteries go dead in the egress lights and that circuit is now useless. It may set there for weeks before somebody catches it. Same reason they should not be GFI'd. In America, we can power them from normal lighting, so we know if that circuit is off.


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

46-400 canadian electrical code:

NEC requires all 120v rec in a commercial garage to be GFCI.

Is that what they are talking about?


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> No there's not because that's a silly rule. Here's why: If for some reason the breaker trips on that circuit in the middle of the night, no one would know it. After 90 minutes or so, the batteries go dead in the egress lights and that circuit is now useless. It may set there for weeks before somebody catches it. Same reason they should not be GFI'd. In America, we can power them from normal lighting, so we know if that circuit is off.


I was just quoting exit signs. 

Even so, emergency lighting has to have its own conduit, and can't mingle with anything else. But I understand what you're saying, Maybe one of you has an NEC codebook mentioning emergency systems? I'd like to know the differences between USA and CA.

Found this in Canadian:

46-206 Overcurrent Protection
1) No device capable of interrupting the circuit, other than the overcurrent device for the current supply of the emergency system, shall be placed ahead of the branch circuit overcurrent devices.
2) The branch circuit overcurrent devices shall be accessable only to authorized persons.

As in, probably CANNOT have GFI stuff related to "egress" hahaha funny word.

I don't have a 2010 codebook but that car plug thing sounds reasonable. Commercial garages can have hazardous locations depending on a lot of things.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

Are you sure they said GFI verse GFCI. Either way I've never heard of such a loopie application.

I could understand an umbrella coverage, say any receptacle within a 10 foot radius from any door opening (egress) inside the building be GFCI protected.

I've never heard of that being in any Code for all that thoughts worth and never in respects to Exit signage, etc.

"Let the Code hounds chow down"...


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

kaboler said:


> Found this in Canadian:
> 
> 46-206 Overcurrent Protection
> 
> ...


I don't see that in the code section, if the GFCI is part of the overcurrent device it will not be ahead of the breaker.

Of course I don't know jack about the Canadian code.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

I guess. The GFCI wouldn't interrupt the whole circuit, but you can see the spirit of it. You want only 1 thing that can trip on an emergency circuit like that, and a GFCI trips, but doesn't stop the circuit. But you can see the spirit of it. As much as the code doesn't say 1 thing specifically, oh hell.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Of course I don't know jack about the Canadian code.


why should you/us? Those guys are jack...we should annex Canada anyway.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

BuzzKill said:


> why should you/us? Those guys are jack...we should annex Canada anyway.


Don't you know we're the 51st state?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

kaboler said:


> Don't you know we're the 51st state?


 Pay us some taxes then:thumbup:


It seems 701.17 even says that he's wrong.

Also, the code that allows us to mingle circuits is 701.11 (F)

States: The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit that serves the normal lighting in the area, and connected ahead of any switches.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

701 is the wrong Article.

I do not believe there is any NEC rule prohibiting the use if a GFCI on egress lighting circuits.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> 701 is the wrong Article.
> 
> I do not believe there is any NEC rule prohibiting the use if a GFCI on egress lighting circuits.


 
...........................I'm not sure why 701 doesn't apply?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> ...........................I'm not sure why 701 doesn't apply?


It would be Article 700 that applies to egress lighting.

And even if 701 did apply 701.17 does not prohibit GFCIs it just says they are not required.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> It would be Article 700 that applies to egress lighting.
> 
> And even if 701 did apply 701.17 does not prohibit GFCIs it just says they are not required.


 
So the lights in a storage warehouse are classified as emergecy systems?


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BBQ said:


> just says they are not required.


 


Yes, and he's trying to require it


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

Customer wants what the customer gets. But I learned that commercial garages have hazardous locations, good thread for me!!! Ty!!


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> 46-400 of what? If there's less than 3 lighting circuits, I can feed them from local lighting


That's the way I went about it and am still. It's nice to have the emergencies go on if the circuit goes down.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> I turned in some plans for review for new commercial shop being built to house all the town's tractor eqipment and trucks. The town approved plans, but they marked up all my prints at points of egress claiming my points of egress has to be GFI protected. Is this a madeup code? is it becaus it's their own building? :001_huh:I'm checking with them Monday.





mcclary's electrical said:


> I assume they mean the circuit feeding all egress lighting needs to be gfi'd at the source?


That may be what they are trying to get at, but their request is odd.



BuzzKill said:


> Raider1 knows the answer! To the Bat Phone!


:laughing: Sorry it took a while to respond to this thread, there has been a horrific inversion in Cache Valley and I haven't been able to see the Bat signal.:thumbsup:



mcclary's electrical said:


> So the lights in a storage warehouse are classified as emergecy systems?


Correct, egress lighting in a building that requires 2 or more exits is required to be supplied by an emergency system as specified in Article 700.

Article 701 is for legally required standby power. The building code will specify what systems are emergency and which systems are legally required standby systems. For example egress lighting is required to be on a emergency system whereas an accessible means of egress elevator is required to be supplied by a legally required standby system.



mcclary's electrical said:


> Yes, and he's trying to require it


There are no building code or electrical code requirements that I am aware of that would require the egress lights and exits signs to be GFI protected.

I agree with Bob, there is also no code that prohibits installing the lights on a GFCI protected circuit.

Chris


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

raider1 said:


> Sorry it took a while to respond to this thread, there has been a horrific inversion in Cache Valley and I haven't been able to see the Bat signal.


You would think Batman would have a frigging cell phone by now, :laughing:


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

BBQ said:


> You would think Batman would have a frigging cell phone by now, :laughing:


He does, he just doesn't give out the number to electricians on internet forums.:laughing:

Chris


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

raider1 said:


> He does, he just doesn't give out the number to electricians on internet forums.:laughing:



Good point .... :laughing:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

raider1 said:


> That may be what they are trying to get at, but their request is odd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for your help Chris:thumbsup: I get it now



BBQ said:


> You would think Batman would have a frigging cell phone by now, :laughing:


 
Thanks for your help too BBQ. It's knid of embarrassing having your prints marked up by the jurisdiction that invited you to do the work:laughing::laughing::thumbup:


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