# California IBEW cw/ce



## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

From what I understand, it's a new classification at a reduced rate that will eventually eliminate journeyman scale.


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## eutecticalloy (Dec 12, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> From what I understand, it's a new classification at a reduced rate that will eventually eliminate journeyman scale.


I was told that you can test into journeyman scale...


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> From what I understand, it's a new classification at a reduced rate that will eventually eliminate journeyman scale.


I agree. I believe it will push more J-Man to the back of the books. Did you see the dvd they sent out?

It makes sense that they will be able to get more smaller scale jobs based on the pay rate.

However for someone that is at Journeyman scale you have no option to work on one of these jobs at the reduced rate. We will be sitting at home while they work.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

knowshorts said:


> From what I understand, it's a new classification at a reduced rate that will eventually eliminate journeyman scale.


 
We have something similar in our area and it has not pushed out the "A" work force. It has helped some contractors bid and obtain jobs that in the past would have gone open shop. THey man these projects with a mix of "A" and "R" men.

It does take GOOD oversight by the local to stop abuses. But all in all it has not wrecked havoc that members thought it would when first started. This program has been in existence since the late 60's in our local.

I worked the "R" program for 3 years prior to testing into the "A", I was on some jobs with :"A" journeymen most treat yuou like another worker and some treat you like scum.


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## cbr (Jun 14, 2011)

We have the IJ program here it does screw the JWs because there is no set ratio as there is for say apprentices so in theory they could man the job up with IJs at a reduced manpower cost.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

The video made a lot of sense for the survival of the IBEW. Not so sure about what that will mean for many JW's when this becomes the norm.


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## eutecticalloy (Dec 12, 2010)

Island Electric said:


> The video made a lot of sense for the survival of the IBEW. Not so sure about what that will mean for many JW's when this becomes the norm.


I was told by the recruiter I could test to JW. If you fail they will send you back to class. I wish I had joined the IBEW back then. so I was happy to hear of this program. I thought the whole IBEW motto was strength in numbers?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

IN some areas this program may work, in others it may not. I do know the CW/CE will put up with a lot of crap from some of the “A”, that feel threatened. That is not so much a slam on union members as it is a statement on on how workers view competition be they union or open shop.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


eutecticalloy said:



I was told by the recruiter I could test to JW. If you fail they will send you back to class. I wish I had joined the IBEW back then. so I was happy to hear of this program. I thought the whole IBEW motto was strength in numbers?

Click to expand...

*If what you are saying is true I do not see how having this classification will help. We were told they will never be JW's and JW's can't be cw/ce's.

What a mess.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Island Electric said:


> If what you are saying is true I do not see how having this classification will help. We were told they will never be JW's and JW's can't be cw/ce's.
> 
> What a mess.



Many of them are IN REALITY are just as good or better than many “A” workers. Which is another issue the IBEW should deal with.


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## Island Electric (May 9, 2011)

*


brian john said:



Many of them are IN REALITY are just as good or better than many “A” workers. Which is another issue the IBEW should deal with.

Click to expand...

*I would not doubt that. I have a feeling things will never be the same. I guess thats the idea though. 

Why pay 10 JW's $40 an hour plus fringe when we can make a new class and pay them less than 1/2 and win more work, have more people paying dues. Who ever does not like it too bad.

It is going to be too bad when the membership ends up doing their own thing and takes all the work away. 

Like I said the video makes sense for the survival of the IBEW and thats it. I'm sure the signatory contractors will enjoy the flexibility also. I won't be around to see how things turn out but I'm sure I will hear about it.


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## eutecticalloy (Dec 12, 2010)

brian john said:


> Many of them are IN REALITY are just as good or better than many “A” workers. Which is another issue the IBEW should deal with.


The only reason I would join is if I can become a JW with the IBEW. If not I'm not going to give up my job to become a second rate Journeyman with no advancement opportunity.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

IBEW Local 150 hase a cw/ce book....it is a spiral bound book with 50 signitures on it. thats it...None of the NECA contractors want anything to do with cw/ce's at the moment


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

eutecticalloy said:


> The only reason I would join is if I can become a JW with the IBEW. If not I'm not going to give up my job to become a second rate Journeyman with no advancement opportunity.


 If you are a JW or an apprentice you can sign that book...only guys off the street can sign...even with zero experience.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

brian john said:


> Many of them are IN REALITY are just as good or better than many “A” workers. Which is another issue the IBEW should deal with.


 Now your just talking smack. Jw's have atleast 5 years experience and 5 years of school. I know you don't like the union John and thats fine, but nearly every JW in know are outstanding professionals.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

there isn't much union or non-union work now anyway, so it really doesn't matter much to me. This time next month I'll be sweating in Afghanistan only making 20.83 an hour 12 hours a day 7 days a week for a year. Just waiting for my passport so I may be gone sooner. I'll let you guys know what it's like if I can, depending on my security clearance.


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## All-Circuits (May 31, 2011)

eutecticalloy said:


> I was told that you can test into journeyman scale...


 yeah when the economy was booming and there was zero guys on book 4 and they needed bodies.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

All-Circuits said:


> Now your just talking smack. Jw's have atleast 5 years experience and 5 years of school. I know you don't like the union John and thats fine, but nearly every JW in know are outstanding professionals.



Once again you are over rating what it takes to be the AVERAGE electrician. Anything above average take self motivation in the particular field you are working in.

How much of the apprenticeship does the average electrician use day to day. How much do they remember?

I like the union and think it is the preferred way to make top dollar and benefits. But this stuff some peddle about being so much better is BUNK. And I guarantee I have seen a lot more of bot sides that most.

What most union men call smack the average person would see as straight forward honesty, until the IBEW can take some criticism and learn from this criticism they will continue to lose market share.


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## randy.wagner (Jun 21, 2011)

I can't win any small work for my men at the A rate. They are some top quality producers, but I can't compete with half the package, and a flop-house EC who uses 3/4inch factory bends and does not tighten fittings.

The deck is stacked against me on small jobs. My men know it, and most take their job home with them, just to keep working.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

randy.wagner said:


> I can't win any small work for my men at the A rate. They are some top quality producers, but I can't compete with half the package, and a flop-house EC who uses 3/4inch factory bends and does not tighten fittings.
> 
> The deck is stacked against me on small jobs. My men know it, and most take their job home with them, just to keep working.


It is a tough market and many men that were laid off are trying their hand at being a contractor. Making it hard to keep a business going for those small shops that have been in the market for some time. Just as many ECs are seeing more one and two man competition we are seeing a lot of shops bidding the work we do. They have neither the experience or the equipment, but they are trying to land any work they can.


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## blusolstice (Sep 17, 2010)

brian john said:


> Many of them are IN REALITY are just as good or better than many “A” workers. Which is another issue the IBEW should deal with.


Not sure about your area but here, i'd say one out of 50 cw/ce's has the potential to perform journeyman level work. the job i'm on has many of them and i'm working with one of the best ones in the building..he's fast and can bend pipe but he's not always very thorough. 

on a side note, my current contractor got the ok from our local to perform an experiment with the cw/ce's making a whole crew of them and led by a ce3 (the top ce level, makes about 91% of scale) and it completely blew up in their faces. the jw's were asked last week to work 10's with the last 2 hrs spent fixing all the cw/ce's problems on the floor they did.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

All-Circuits said:


> Now your just talking smack. Jw's have atleast 5 years experience and 5 years of school. I know you don't like the union John and thats fine, but nearly every JW in know are outstanding professionals.


Hah! I've spent many hours fixing the work that good ol' union boys did in Beverly Hills and Los Angeles. 

Yeah, all of us rats are just a bunch of trunkslamming hacks.


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