# Looking for Skill Assessment "Quizzes"



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Most of my electrical skills can’t be tested with a pen and paper.


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

When starting an apprenticeship program, my then employer went to a third party - a local college - to develop, admister and score aptitude testing for all applicants. Once enrolled as an apprentice, the only formal testing I received was through the provincial government's training program. My then employer developed no standard as to what was to be taught by the journeymen, or how well it was retained by the apprentice. In order to both fairly and adequately quantify any learning level, some standards and goals need to be established. What is to be taught? To whom? By whom? How is it to be graded? A practical exam can be used in a lot of cases. The info/skills taught must be task specific to expect anyone to retain the information.


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## Vladaar (Mar 9, 2021)

What about stopping local tech school and asking instructor to recommend students that he thinks would be good helpers?


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

ValeoBill said:


> When starting an apprenticeship program, my then employer went to a third party - a local college - to develop, admister and score aptitude testing for all applicants. Once enrolled as an apprentice, the only formal testing I received was through the provincial government's training program. My then employer developed no standard as to what was to be taught by the journeymen, or how well it was retained by the apprentice. In order to both fairly and adequately quantify any learning level, some standards and goals need to be established. What is to be taught? To whom? By whom? How is it to be graded? A practical exam can be used in a lot of cases. The info/skills taught must be task specific to expect anyone to retain the information.


I really like the way you responded to this - as a former educator I also believe there needs to be some standard for any kind of assessment. I was thinking that maybe he could figure out 10 important knowledge based "skills" and maybe I could google some assessment questions based on that. I'm totally ignorant when it comes to what is being learned in the electrical field (even though my husband is a year 4 apprentice!) and what I've found online assessment wise was more geared towards commercial and industrial where we have a bigger percentage of residential work.

What do you think would be useful for his team? Would it be like a house blueprint with a list of needs and having the guys map out how they would build an electrical schematic so he can see where code knowledge and general best practice skills lie?


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

backstay said:


> Most of my electrical skills can’t be tested with a pen and paper.


I can appreciate that as it is a hands on field, is there anything you think could be assessed on pen and paper?


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

Vladaar said:


> What about stopping local tech school and asking instructor to recommend students that he thinks would be good helpers?


Thanks for bringing that up - I do have a contact at our local vo-tech that holds our apprenticeship program, I could potentially gather some insight from him!


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

I don’t think it’s fair to say your employer started an apprentice program. What he really did was hire unskilled workers and they learned on the job. It wouldn’t make sense for an EC to basically start a school. We are here to provide electrical services. On the job you learn what’s being done. Each JW can only teach what they know and what they work on. A small shop may only have one or two JWs. How wide a range of knowledge can you expect? They have schools, union and non union just for that.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Your main obstacle is the fact there are many variations of electricians. I'm guessing if we asked everyone to name types of electricians they'd be quick to name 25 and eventually 75 types.
Residential construction single family.
Multi-family
Commercial
Industrial
Substation
Lineman
Motors & controls
PLC
And all of them have construction and maintenance positions.

Suggest you ask what kind of electricians are being employed/ trained and come back and tell us that. Also think the employer could/ should tell you what he expects of his workforce as to skills.

Are they bending pipe or roping romex?


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

backstay said:


> I don’t think it’s fair to say your employer started an apprentice program. What he really did was hire unskilled workers and they learned on the job. It wouldn’t make sense for an EC to basically start a school. We are here to provide electrical services. On the job you learn what’s being done. Each JW can only teach what they know and what they work on. A small shop may only have one or two JWs. How wide a range of knowledge can you expect? They have schools, union and non union just for that.


I don't think I said he started an apprenticeship program at all, actually. 

He sponsors apprentices through the state - they work 40h a week under a JW and attend class 2 nights a week for four years, followed by the licensure exam. So yes, apprentices are "unskilled" as they start out but over time they acquire skills. What my boss would like to do is bi-annually see what skills he needs to work with them on, in an effort to show that all the guys on his team, even JWs, are continuing to learn and stay sharp out in the field. I, personally, do not have any expectations for the range of knowledge as I am not an electrician, but that's why I came here for advice.


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## BillyMac59 (Sep 12, 2019)

My response seems to have been vague enough to be misinterpreted. For that, I apologize. When I said my employer started an aprrenticeship program, I should have added that "my employer" was an industrial factory. I was one of the unwashed pulled from the unskilled factory workers and given the chance to qualify.

As far as developing a "top 10" list ... this is a chance to develop electrical skills based on the needs of the contracting business. Is it more of a construction/installation environment or is it more repair/maintenance. Is it an industrial setting or residential. Yes, there are many skills common to both areas. There are also aspects of residential work that an industrial electrician would never see and vice versa.


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

MikeFL said:


> Your main obstacle is the fact there are many variations of electricians. I'm guessing if we asked everyone to name types of electricians they'd be quick to name 25 and eventually 75 types.
> Residential construction single family.
> Multi-family
> Commercial
> ...


I will find this out - I can say I know they are doing mostly residential construction single family and some light commercial work for restaurants and some other small businesses. I'll keep you posted with what I find out!


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

ValeoBill said:


> My response seems to have been vague enough to be misinterpreted. For that, I apologize. When I said my employer started an aprrenticeship program, I should have added that "my employer" was an industrial factory. I was one of the unwashed pulled from the unskilled factory workers and given the chance to qualify.
> 
> As far as developing a "top 10" list ... this is a chance to develop electrical skills based on the needs of the contracting business. Is it more of a construction/installation environment or is it more repair/maintenance. Is it an industrial setting or residential. Yes, there are many skills common to both areas. There are also aspects of residential work that an industrial electrician would never see and vice versa.


Thank you for clarifying! I know they do work on new construction residential, remodels, and repair and maintenance in single family residential. They've done some work with light commercial - restaurants and other small businesses. I did ask him to identify 5-10 skills that he would want to test so hoping he has time to get back to me on that! I'll update if I can get any more specific information from him.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Real questions that have been asked here during an interview.

1) What color is the green ground screw?
2) What phase colors does the NEC require on a 3 phase system? (Only BRB/BOY are correct)
3) What is a Wiggy?

My favorite was one asked to me years ago..
1) How do you open a bathroom door with no key?
I walked out of the interview. 

It only goes down hill from there.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

mpurcell said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I work for my brother in law who has an electrical contracting business and employs apprentices. Besides going through the program, he wanted to see if he could do bi-annual skills assessment on the guys (apprentices or not). Does anyone know where I can help him find questions and/or diagrams that can be used to test important skills in the electrical field?
> 
> ...


keep in mind that a classroom has one teacher
at work each apprentice has a different teacher
first you would have to at least quizz each lead man if not outright test his teaching skills ,then his electrical skills

a simple casual question from the boss to the leadman is about as good as you can get and still be fair to everyone
"How is he doing? is he trying? is he gaining knowledge and skill?"
if those answers are all positive, then that is your answer

There are already official tests in place
the most helpful thing i can think of is to have everyone take the official test for their next level bi-annually, 
and _Improvement_, not pass or fail is the issue
if they do _better_ each time will be the best indication you can fairly get
you will also be training and encouraging them to have the confidence and knowledge to pass that test when they take it officially
yes you have to pay them more, but you can charge more for them as well
all of which i see as good for a company


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

Wirenuting said:


> Real questions that have been asked here during an interview.
> 
> 1) What color is the green ground screw?
> 2) What phase colors does the NEC require on a 3 phase system? (Only BRB/BOY are correct)
> ...


i wish more ppl knew what a wiggy is


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## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

A seasoned electrician can sit down in an interview with a new hire and figure out within 10-15 minutes whether or not they are at least “qualified” to go through the 90 day hire process.

The next 90 days should be enough time to figure out everything else you need to know about their actual knowledge and their work ethic.

For apprentices who are moving up the ranks, it might be best to get one of your lead electricians to write out some type of quiz that goes over questions aimed at the type of work your company does. After that, years of experience should be the next gauge.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

If you have a spare wall and some parts then build a test stand. Most of the training classes have a artificial stud wall where you get to wire and test things. 

Be evil and drill a few holes in the wrong place to see if the trainee notices. Kit the wrong breakers etc.


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

MHElectric said:


> A seasoned electrician can sit down in an interview with a new hire and figure out within 10-15 minutes whether or not they are at least “qualified” to go through the 90 day hire process.
> 
> The next 90 days should be enough time to figure out everything else you need to know about their actual knowledge and their work ethic.
> 
> For apprentices who are moving up the ranks, it might be best to get one of your lead electricians to write out some type of quiz that goes over questions aimed at the type of work your company does. After that, years of experience should be the next gauge.


I really like this. My husband is finishing up his 4th year apprenticeship and was just promoted to a team lead - he's been doing a really great job delegating tasks so I think I'll ask him if he could throw together some items of interest, maybe skills that he's noticing need development or addressing problems they run into during the day-to-day on the job site. Thanks for this idea!


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

gpop said:


> If you have a spare wall and some parts then build a test stand. Most of the training classes have a artificial stud wall where you get to wire and test things.
> 
> Be evil and drill a few holes in the wrong place to see if the trainee notices. Kit the wrong breakers etc.


This is great!!! We have an office in the back of our showroom that I think we could totally set up something like this. What's even better is that one of our project managers/experienced electricians is also an awesome carpenter! Thank you!


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> keep in mind that a classroom has one teacher
> at work each apprentice has a different teacher
> first you would have to at least quizz each lead man if not outright test his teaching skills ,then his electrical skills
> 
> ...


This is excellent. I totally agree with what you're saying about the lead "teachers" the apprentices are under. We have a team lead who (I think) doesn't really provide the right kind of training to the apprentices. We are working on an improvement plan with him already and speak to the guys during quarterly meetings for feedback on what they feel is lacking or how to better improve on-the-job learning. We have another lead who has had experience coaching and even before he became lead he was already taking the younger apprentices under his wing, making sure they knew what they were doing and the expected standards.

Where can I find the official tests that we would use? We are definitely on board with "improvement" rather than mastery because we have the expectation that growth and learning take time, so yes not expecting 100% but also want to see the guys are making the effort to retain and practice what is needed for us to be successful as a team. I think my BIL actually WANTS to pay the guys more but he feels like he doesn't have enough concrete evidence of what the guys are doing as professionals. His big thing is "show me what you're worth" - but sometimes it seems like the guys just come to work, do what's needed to get through the day, and go home, without any real investment in professional development or improving practices that help grow the team and the company as a whole. 

Mike Holt has a lot of resources I see - do you know of any other places where I can find resources to help train the guys?


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

mpurcell said:


> This is excellent. I totally agree with what you're saying about the lead "teachers" the apprentices are under. We have a team lead who (I think) doesn't really provide the right kind of training to the apprentices. We are working on an improvement plan with him already and speak to the guys during quarterly meetings for feedback on what they feel is lacking or how to better improve on-the-job learning. We have another lead who has had experience coaching and even before he became lead he was already taking the younger apprentices under his wing, making sure they knew what they were doing and the expected standards.
> 
> Where can I find the official tests that we would use? We are definitely on board with "improvement" rather than mastery because we have the expectation that growth and learning take time, so yes not expecting 100% but also want to see the guys are making the effort to retain and practice what is needed for us to be successful as a team. I think my BIL actually WANTS to pay the guys more but he feels like he doesn't have enough concrete evidence of what the guys are doing as professionals. His big thing is "show me what you're worth" - but sometimes it seems like the guys just come to work, do what's needed to get through the day, and go home, without any real investment in professional development or improving practices that help grow the team and the company as a whole.
> 
> Mike Holt has a lot of resources I see - do you know of any other places where I can find resources to help train the guys?


the Ugly books and a few others im not familiar with
i think there is actually a pocket size Ugly book to carry on the job

the "Official" tests would be the apprentice and Jman License test required to advance by what ever licensing entity determined by the state
the one everbody has to pass to get a license

using this test does 2 things
it is already the gold standard
it allows your guys to become familiar with that test and be better at it when the time comes to advance

I agree with your BIL, show me what you are worth and i will pay you more, 
personally i love to see ppl advance especially if that is making me more money
HOW EVER dont make it about the company when you start this, that will become reverse psychology

*make the test optional*
do not require ppl to take it, that will cause resentment and reverse psychology
let it be the forbidden fruit almost out of reach, that causes positive psychology
there will always be some that come to work for a check and not a job
once they see others getting raises but not themselves most of them will get on board

there will be some who consider themselves good knowledgeable workers but dont like tests
they will be resentful
that will take some personalized hands on approaches from yall
based mostly on that personality

perhaps start them on hands on type tests, work in a few verbal questions, then more and more questions
eventually say look i dont have the time to ask the questions today, just fill out the paper please
before they know it they are comfortable with a paper test

you did yourself and him a favor, you made it easier for him to advance
you helped him make more money for you

this approach may eventually help you weed out the check takers


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## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

The best question I ever had to answer was, What does an electrician use an Aluminum ladder for? I laughed and said "nothing". Hired on the spot.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

i might have said painting, just to be difficult
but if they asked if i painted i would have said no


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

Almost Retired said:


> the Ugly books and a few others im not familiar with
> i think there is actually a pocket size Ugly book to carry on the job
> 
> the "Official" tests would be the apprentice and Jman License test required to advance by what ever licensing entity determined by the state
> ...


This is great advice. I really appreciate how thoughtful and comprehensive your response was!


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

mpurcell said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I work for my brother in law who has an electrical contracting business and employs apprentices. Besides going through the program, he wanted to see if he could do bi-annual skills assessment on the guys (apprentices or not). Does anyone know where I can help him find questions and/or diagrams that can be used to test important skills in the electrical field?
> 
> ...


I did electrical evaluations as part of my business, it is a tricky thing to do some people don't do well with tests. 
As said hands on should be part of it, also a field evaluation of their work also works good. 
If he wants to do a bi annual for everyone be prepared for complaints from the JW.
My question I asked customers when they wanted me to do an evaluation report was Why do you want the information and what are you going to do with it? 
Is it being done for:

Checking how well the training program works?
Checking to see what skills are required to improve the workers.
Checking to see where the best skills are to utilize them the best.
or

See how much of a raise is needed?
See if someone is pulling their weight?
See if someone should advance?
The first group is very beneficial, the second one can cause troubles. 

Cowboy


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

There are always the Bridge of Death questions.


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## Bluenose for rent (Nov 6, 2020)

It’s unfortunate, but what I’ve noticed is most electricians learn by rote. They memorize the schooling enough to make it through, and then reproduce work they’ve done or seen before. It’s a minority that really understand why we do what we do, and continue to learn. Obviously it’s a continuum, but I’m not sure any test is going to tell you who really knows what they’re doing and who doesn’t. I guess the results on the job is the best testing you’re going to get, and you evaluate those based on reporting from your lead hands and foremen.

Also most tradesmen hate tests even ones who are really good at their jobs.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

mpurcell said:


> This is great!!! We have an office in the back of our showroom that I think we could totally set up something like this. What's even better is that one of our project managers/experienced electricians is also an awesome carpenter! Thank you!


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> I did electrical evaluations as part of my business, it is a tricky thing to do some people don't do well with tests.
> As said hands on should be part of it, also a field evaluation of their work also works good.
> If he wants to do a bi annual for everyone be prepared for complaints from the JW.
> My question I asked customers when they wanted me to do an evaluation report was Why do you want the information and what are you going to do with it?
> ...


Thank you - love this response. I agree with what you're saying, I think the main purpose he wants for it is to make sure the guys are learning. They are so busy they don't have time for a lot of additional training days beyond what is necessary, and the team has pushed back on trying to be engaged with electrical learning on their own time. So it won't be "graded" per se, more of just trying to figure out if someone isn't learning/retaining a concept as time passes what kind of approach is needed for the team to be successful? Also just to keep their brains active I guess - critical thinking? I think that there might be some role in potential pay increase because one of the job responsibilities they are evaluated on is "continued learning" but we haven't really eked that out yet. 

I really like your response though and I'm going to share that with him so he can also get that perspective. Sometimes I feel like he has trust issues with the team, he's a really ambitious guy and wants them to be ambitious too - but as we all know not everyone is cut from the same cloth. Any insight that you can give me from your perspective as an electrical evaluator would be so helpful. I am trying to help put together a monthly professional development plan where once a month the guys are off job sites and come to the office and we do a day of training with breakfast and lunch served. (I mean, we literally have a fancy home theater in the show room to do these meetings with those fancy leather theater seats so it can't be that bad right?) but I have no idea where to even start!


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

LARMGUY said:


>


Awesome. Thank you for sharing this. 🤯


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

Bluenose for rent said:


> It’s unfortunate, but what I’ve noticed is most electricians learn by rote. They memorize the schooling enough to make it through, and then reproduce work they’ve done or seen before. It’s a minority that really understand why we do what we do, and continue to learn. Obviously it’s a continuum, but I’m not sure any test is going to tell you who really knows what they’re doing and who doesn’t. I guess the results on the job is the best testing you’re going to get, and you evaluate those based on reporting from your lead hands and foremen.
> 
> Also most tradesmen hate tests even ones who are really good at their jobs.


I can totally appreciate this. I know on our team we have guys that have varying skills and learn in totally different ways from each other so yeah there's going to be no good way to really test. I know my husband was telling me that there is a lot he's learning in trade school that he basically just needs to memorize because it's not what he does on a day-to-day basis. Thank you for sharing your perspective!


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

Bluenose for rent said:


> It’s unfortunate, but what I’ve noticed is most electricians learn by rote. They memorize the schooling enough to make it through, and then reproduce work they’ve done or seen before. It’s a minority that really understand why we do what we do, and continue to learn. Obviously it’s a continuum, but I’m not sure any test is going to tell you who really knows what they’re doing and who doesn’t. I guess the results on the job is the best testing you’re going to get, and you evaluate those based on reporting from your lead hands and foremen.
> 
> Also most tradesmen hate tests even ones who are really good at their jobs.


Many people who are tactile learn by "rote"
Not just electricians. Not every person learns the same way. Humans are individuals.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

Use the 2020 Electrician's Championship as a guide for establishing your own testing according to the work you do.
Set standards for prospected employees and minimum requirements to meet. Have hand out sheets available at your first meeting of the new workers you are interested in and ask them to report back in a week after they have familiarized themselves with the tasks required. After hiring, set goals for individuals to meet and even offer to send the achievers to different continuing education. Finally, sponsor a team to go to the Ideal competition.


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## 205490 (Jun 23, 2020)

Anybody on the forum been in this competition? Maybe ET sponsored?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Good thread with a lot of good responses. When I thought about it, it's harder than it sounds, coming up with a meaningful quiz, and after reading the thread I think so moreso. 

I am thinking another way to go would be for you to shadow them for a half day in the field, choose a day when they have something that lets them show their skill, let one of the bosses be THEIR apprentice for the day. Talk about the work that's in front of them, the jobs they've worked on since their last review and what they've learned. That's a bit of a time investment but think how much money you wrap up in an employee, it would probably be well spent.


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

LARMGUY said:


> Use the 2020 Electrician's Championship as a guide for establishing your own testing according to the work you do.
> Set standards for prospected employees and minimum requirements to meet. Have hand out sheets available at your first meeting of the new workers you are interested in and ask them to report back in a week after they have familiarized themselves with the tasks required. After hiring, set goals for individuals to meet and even offer to send the achievers to different continuing education. Finally, sponsor a team to go to the Ideal competition.


This is great advice, thank you! I am already trying to rally some troops to get involved with the competition. I can't believe this even exists!!!


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

splatz said:


> Good thread with a lot of good responses. When I thought about it, it's harder than it sounds, coming up with a meaningful quiz, and after reading the thread I think so moreso.
> 
> I am thinking another way to go would be for you to shadow them for a half day in the field, choose a day when they have something that lets them show their skill, let one of the bosses be THEIR apprentice for the day. Talk about the work that's in front of them, the jobs they've worked on since their last review and what they've learned. That's a bit of a time investment but think how much money you wrap up in an employee, it would probably be well spent.


That is a really good strategy - because you can't teach someone if you don't know it inside and out. It may not be feasible right now because we are still learning to scale and grow so everyone is strapped for time, but I have a feeling that this is going to be an amazing tool in the future when our experts can take a step back from a job site. Thank you!


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

mpurcell said:


> That is a really good strategy - because you can't teach someone if you don't know it inside and out. It may not be feasible right now because we are still learning to scale and grow so everyone is strapped for time, but I have a feeling that this is going to be an amazing tool in the future when our experts can take a step back from a job site. Thank you!


Just a watch out.
The more you train, the more valuable that employee is. *Reward them with pay raises or someone else will*.
I just lost one to a $10/hr. more job, due to fact that we are government my hands were tied. But I did get 15% for the rest of the team after they realized we were going to lose everyone.


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## mpurcell (Aug 24, 2021)

just the cowboy said:


> Just a watch out.
> The more you train, the more valuable that employee is. *Reward them with pay raises or someone else will*.
> I just lost one to a $10/hr. more job, due to fact that we are government my hands were tied. But I did get 15% for the rest of the team after they realized we were going to lose everyone.


I am a firm believer in that as well, we are a small business right now so I know there is no way we can compete with union work rates and benefits and that is something that we are trying to move towards. If we can get these guys to be top of their game, we can take on more jobs and grow the team while also being able to afford increased pay - but right now we are at the point where we need the guys to buy in to it, put the work in, so that we can finally get to the light at the end of the tunnel. We also created a new compensation structure that we are implementing this year where you can earn a higher percentage raise if your evaluation "exceeds" company standards. Trying to motivate the guys to put that extra oomph in because we can't grow until jobs are done right and on time. Luckily we are a small team and very tight knit so it's not taking too much persuasion to get them on board, we just need to have a plan in place how to get them where we need them to be.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

just the cowboy said:


> Just a watch out.
> The more you train, the more valuable that employee is. *Reward them with pay raises or someone else will*.
> I just lost one to a $10/hr. more job, due to fact that we are government my hands were tied. But I did get 15% for the rest of the team after they realized we were going to lose everyone.


Good for you Cowboy! Too bad you had to lose one.


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## Almost Retired (Sep 14, 2021)

mpurcell said:


> I am a firm believer in that as well, we are a small business right now so I know there is no way we can compete with union work rates and benefits and that is something that we are trying to move towards. If we can get these guys to be top of their game, we can take on more jobs and grow the team while also being able to afford increased pay - but right now we are at the point where we need the guys to buy in to it, put the work in, so that we can finally get to the light at the end of the tunnel. We also created a new compensation structure that we are implementing this year where you can earn a higher percentage raise if your evaluation "exceeds" company standards. Trying to motivate the guys to put that extra oomph in because we can't grow until jobs are done right and on time. Luckily we are a small team and very tight knit so it's not taking too much persuasion to get them on board, we just need to have a plan in place how to get them where we need them to be.


Xcellent !!


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

splatz said:


> Good thread with a lot of good responses. When I thought about it, it's harder than it sounds, coming up with a meaningful quiz, and after reading the thread I think so moreso.
> 
> I am thinking another way to go would be for you to shadow them for a half day in the field, choose a day when they have something that lets them show their skill, let one of the bosses be THEIR apprentice for the day. Talk about the work that's in front of them, the jobs they've worked on since their last review and what they've learned. That's a bit of a time investment but think how much money you wrap up in an employee, it would probably be well spent.


I had similar thoughts. A test is not going to tell you what you really want to know. Watch for yourself, look at production data objectively as well as subjectively, talk to customers, talk to co-workers. 

You can teach electrical skills to someone with people skills and a good attitude. It's almost impossible to teach someone good people skills and good attitude.


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