# Insulating recessed lights



## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm getting my own home insulated and I had a insulation guy come buy and he recommended that I insulate my recessed lights.

Has anyone done that before? What's involved and where do I get the kits? My local ESH has no clue. 
Thx


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

You'd better make sure they are IC rated.


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

Found them on amazon... Tenmat is the name.


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You'd better make sure they are IC rated.


Of course they r


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

How bout a 5 gallon bucket with some holes. Drilled in the top?
Although if they are ic why bother. Your the expert not some insulation salesman


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)




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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> How bout a 5 gallon bucket with some holes. Drilled in the top?
> Although if they are ic why bother. Your the expert not some insulation salesman


Don't understand?
Why wouldn't I bother? If it saves energy... Why not?


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## papa (Sep 15, 2011)

If there ic rated why do you need to shield them from insulation?


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

Heat escapes thought the light into the attic. You would shield them to keep the heat in the rooms of the home.... It has nothing to do with the ic rating.... I have leds anyway


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Hes asking if they are ic rated cans why not just insulate them with regular fiberglass insulation.


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

Heat still escapes


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Aren't you guys required to put a vapour barrier condom around your IC lights on the second floor? That would prevent air exchange between conditioned and unconditioned spaces. Then you can stuff the inside with insulation too.

one of these


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

Not in Denver.... I'm wondering how much in heat that kw/h that would save....


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Smileyboy said:


> Heat escapes thought the light into the attic. You would shield them to keep the heat in the rooms of the home.... It has nothing to do with the ic rating.... I have leds anyway




We use IC rated cans and Air Tight metal cone trims. I think they meet the CA energy code requirements.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Smileyboy said:


> Not in Denver.... I'm wondering how much in heat that kw/h that would save....


Wow really? I thought Denver was the LEED capital. We are required to by building code. A guy I worked with said he installed lights in his room without the vapour barrier and later added them, and noticed his room was much warmer in the winter afterwards.


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## Smileyboy (Apr 24, 2007)

Mine and most of the ones I install are air tight too... But that is contingent up joe the drywall is installed etc... I'm just more curious to see if many have installed them.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Aren't you guys required to put a vapour barrier condom around your IC lights on the second floor? That would prevent air exchange between conditioned and unconditioned spaces. Then you can stuff the inside with insulation too.
> 
> one of these


 
gotta link? i'm curious about these Vintagedude

~CS~


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

How does that blue thing work after a few summers up in the attic?


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## JSpark (Nov 25, 2011)

We use those Vapour barriers aswell they hold up just fine like any Vapour barrier you put on an octagon generally they insulate around and over top of these Vapour barriers


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Huh. I honestly thought these was a totally standard item. I think the official term is "vapour barrier extender". Every maker of potlights seems to sell these things, but the ones I've used the most have been by Contrast Lighting and Cooper. They cost like $1.50 or something each. I first put them in the joist bay and pop 3 or 4 drywall screws in to hold them up and maintain shape, then poke a hole for my romex and pull it in. Connect to the IC light and then mount the light inside the extender. We also have to put these things on exhaust fans, speakers, anything like that in the same space. Once we are done and the insulators arrive, the whole ceiling and outside walls get their usual fill of insulation and usually some gets stuffed inside the vapour barrier boot around the light. After that the entire ceiling and outside walls are covered in vapour barrier sheet plastic and any holes and gaps in the sheet are sealed up with VB tape. They seem to hold up fine after years and years of being up there, it's very tough plastic. 

So I am given to understand that, there is no vapour barrier installed on the top story of houses over insulation in your areas? What about walls?

Contrast

www.contrastlighting.com/fr/pdf/vapor.pdf


Juno

http://www.junolightinggroup.com/Attachments/images/content/SpecSheets/VB-6.pdf


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## JSpark (Nov 25, 2011)

Vintage Sounds said:


> Huh. I honestly thought these was a totally standard item. I think the official term is "vapour barrier extender". Every maker of potlights seems to sell these things, but the ones I've used the most have been by Contrast Lighting and Cooper. They cost like $1.50 or something each. I first put them in the joist bay and pop 3 or 4 drywall screws in to hold them up and maintain shape, then poke a hole for my romex and pull it in. Connect to the IC light and then mount the light inside the extender. We also have to put these things on exhaust fans, speakers, anything like that in the same space. Once we are done and the insulators arrive, the whole ceiling and outside walls get their usual fill of insulation and usually some gets stuffed inside the vapour barrier boot around the light. After that the entire ceiling and outside walls are covered in vapour barrier sheet plastic and any holes and gaps in the sheet are sealed up with VB tape. They seem to hold up fine after years and years of being up there, it's very tough plastic.
> 
> So I am given to understand that, there is no vapour barrier installed on the top story of houses over insulation in your areas? What about walls?
> 
> ...



I think lots of these guys use the gasketed trims you can get that make the can airtight . I think the Vapour barrier way is far superior personally only in a pinch would I install a pot light with no vb and a gasketed trim


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Magnettica said:


>


That's fireproofing, not insulation. They cost about 200 bucks per can.



papa said:


> If there ic rated why do you need to shield them from insulation?


You wouldn't



crazyboy said:


> Hes asking if they are ic rated cans why not just insulate them with regular fiberglass insulation.


 
I agree


Vintage Sounds said:


> Aren't you guys required to put a vapour barrier condom around your IC lights on the second floor? That would prevent air exchange between conditioned and unconditioned spaces. Then you can stuff the inside with insulation too.
> 
> one of these


 


We're not required to use that in particular, but we are required to make them airtight. Here's the code:


*N1102.4.5 Recessed lighting. *Recessed luminaires installed in the _building thermal envelope _shall be sealed to limit air leakage between conditioned and unconditioned spaces. All recessed luminaires shall be IC-rated and _labeled _as meeting ASTM E 283 when tested at 1.57 psf (75 Pa) pressure differential with no more than 2.0 cfm (0.944 L/s) of air movement from the _conditioned space _to the ceiling cavity. All recessed luminaires shall be sealed with a gasket or caulk between the housing and the interior wall or ceiling covering.


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## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Are those fire rated? Around here, if you're in a "high fire hazard" area, any recessed lights outside, say, under a patio, have to be enclosed in drywall. Huge PIA.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B W E said:


> Are those fire rated? Around here, if you're in a "high fire hazard" area, any recessed lights outside, say, under a patio, have to be enclosed in drywall. Huge PIA.


 
the one's Mag posted solve that problem.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

mcclary's electrical said:


> > We're not required to use that in particular, but we are required to make them airtight. Here's the code:
> >
> >
> > *N1102.4.5 Recessed lighting. *Recessed luminaires installed in the _building thermal envelope _shall be sealed to limit air leakage between conditioned and unconditioned spaces. All recessed luminaires shall be IC-rated and _labeled _as meeting *ASTM E 283 when tested at 1.57 psf (75 Pa) pressure differential with no more than 2.0 cfm (0.944 L/s) of air movement* from the _conditioned space _to the ceiling cavity. All recessed luminaires shall be sealed with a gasket or caulk between the housing and the interior wall or ceiling covering.


McClary, 
would you_ kindly_ educate me to this morsel of beuacracy i'm apparently _lost_ on.....

~CS~


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> McClary,
> would you kindly educate me to this morsel of beuacracy i'm apparently lost on.....
> 
> ~CS~


It's from the IRC. As long as you use IC rated cans with airtight trims, you'll be fine.


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## willy_boston (Jun 3, 2012)

I have a 75 yr old COLD Apt/condo in basement --- The 1980's ceiling lights have a 1" fiberglass pancake against the ceiling --- is this for heat retention in the unit or fire safety ??
( oil tanks on other side of wall )
Thanks,
Bill --- newbie on site


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

willy_boston said:


> I have a 75 yr old COLD Apt/condo in basement --- The 1980's ceiling lights have a 1" fiberglass pancake against the ceiling --- is this for heat retention in the unit or fire safety ??
> ( oil tanks on other side of wall )
> Thanks,
> Bill --- newbie on site


 
That's just insulation to keep heat off the ceiling and out of the box.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

mcclary's electrical said:


> That's fireproofing, not insulation. They cost about 200 bucks per can.
> 
> You wouldn't
> 
> ...


More like a hundred bucks or you can get progress two hour rated cans for a buck fify a piece..


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Not to change subjects but after years of promising my wife cans for the livingroom, i decided to finish up early and went home and installed four five inch cans in my pain in the ass ceiling.. Needless to say wife was thrilled..


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## 123electric (Jun 3, 2012)

I thought Halo ICAT cans were air tight already, am I missing something here? I have not heard of this vapor barrier?


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

123electric said:


> I thought Halo ICAT cans were air tight already, am I missing something here? I have not heard of this vapor barrier?


There are quite a few fixtures which are air tight, however they usually still leak. Some contractors use them, specially the ones who buy from Home Depot. 
I would never trust the silly gasket that Juno supplies, to insure a seal.
Vapor boots are the only way to go if you want a good seal. Our inspectors require blocking on all sides to make sure the edges are well sealed to the ceiling vapor barrier


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