# Spare conductor



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WPNortheast said:


> Does anyone have a code reference for the neccessity to tape up or cap a spare conductor? I.e. 3 wire to dishwasher with red as spare for future disposal. Thx


Nope, I don't think there is anything specific in the code. I leave it long and tape it off so it's clear that it's not in use. I don't like using wirenuts because they don't stay on single conductors well.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I didn't have any 10-2 on the van yesterday so I wasted 50 feet of 10-3 wiring a pk-30 split condenser. I went ahead and landed the white wire on the neutral bar in the panel anyway even though it isn't used for that condenser. So I wasted time and money in this endeavor. Just saying....... I wonder what Jose' would do?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If you look at the listings a lot of wire nuts are listed for single conductors. I always keep a few of the Ideal blues on hand, which I think are rated for a single #12 or #14, solid or stranded. I only use them for stuff I'm temporarily leaving dangle while I test something, or wires left unconnected. I see them and know I left them that way on purpose.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I used to do lots of service drop hookups and cut the service lines myself before the local poco outlawed that and makes us schedule them to disconnect. I would use the large blue wirenuts instead of taping the cut service lines. worked great. (and bonus, they make it easy to connect temp outlet on for power tools if you are a dinosaur and still use power tools.)


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> If you look at the listings a lot of wire nuts are listed for single conductors. I always keep a few of the Ideal blues on hand, which I think are rated for a single #12 or #14, solid or stranded. I only use them for stuff I'm temporarily leaving dangle while I test something, or wires left unconnected. I see them and know I left them that way on purpose.


Use Lever Nuts, darn you.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Use Lever Nuts, darn you.


No lie, I have some ordered for a few weeks now. There must be one old man in the Wago factory that has to make each one custom to order. 

But I've left those little blue nuts like a trail of breadcrumbs all over the place, on or in panels, on the floor of my truck, in the creases in every tool pouch, in the tray of every tool box - there's always one handy.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

WPNortheast said:


> Does anyone have a code reference for the neccessity to tape up or cap a spare conductor? I.e. 3 wire to dishwasher with red as spare for future disposal. Thx


No .,, there is no code requirement but basically a common sense that it.,

I just tape both ends of it and get one of wire sleeve that marked say spare and that it.,,


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> No lie, I have some ordered for a few weeks now. There must be one old man in the Wago factory that has to make each one custom to order.
> 
> But I've left those little blue nuts like a trail of breadcrumbs all over the place, on or in panels, on the floor of my truck, in the creases in every tool pouch, in the tray of every tool box - there's always one handy.


There's a lot of good tricks to use the wago lever nuts for. In this instance they work out well because once you put it on that single conductor, you leave it there. Now that conductor is safed off and it doesn't matter if you energize. Later on you can splice wires to that conductor by inserting them into the wago without shutting the power off.

When I need to work on a multi-gang box and do lots of changing stuff around, I will find the hot wire and cap it off with the wago first. Now everything is safe and when I need to splice into that hot wire I can do so by inserting the wires into the wago without having to touch live wires anymore like I would if I was using a wirenut.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

HackWork said:


> There's a lot of good tricks to use the wago lever nuts for. In this instance they work out well because once you put it on that single conductor, you leave it there. Now that conductor is safed off and it doesn't matter if you energize. Later on you can splice wires to that conductor by inserting them into the wago without shutting the power off.
> 
> 
> 
> When I need to work on a multi-gang box and do lots of changing stuff around, I will find the hot wire and cap it off with the wago first. Now everything is safe and when I need to splice into that hot wire I can do so by inserting the wires into the wago without having to touch live wires anymore like I would if I was using a wirenut.



This is basically how I will rough in circuits that I have to energize before trim out (like a remodel and the circuit does lighting in an are not affected he the remodel). 

Wires are all spliced up and when it comes time to trim out all I have to do is jam in the pigtails for the device.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Question, can you lock the tip of a meter's lead into a lever nut without damaging either the nut or the lead tip?


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

I don't believe so. #12 is the largest conductor.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

splatz said:


> Question, can you lock the tip of a meter's lead into a lever nut without damaging either the nut or the lead tip?


It depending on how big the lead tip is ., if smaller than #12 then it will work just fine., 

I done that before couple time and it work pretty good with it.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Outstanding. I think the tips on my leads are mostly smaller than #12 and I will buy special if I have to. I can't wait to use the lever nuts to megger circuits prior to energizing the first time. I am going to call them megger nuts.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

The lever nuts have special little ports to stick the tip of test leads into to test the power. I know that's not what you mean, but I figured I would mention it.

As for your situation, instead of buying new leads, I would take old leads and cut the probes off and snap the wago right onto the conductor itself. 

The wago lever nuts are great for any temp situation. I have a cord and plug setup with the other end strippe and wagos clipped on. With it I can quickly connect something to power such as a light that I want to make sure works before putting it up.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

I have a bunch of lever-nuts that came with Eaton LED wall packs. I should use them for something.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

This is the cheapest place that I know of to get either of the 2 lever nuts: http://www.onlineelec.com/parts/wago/push-wire-connector/

The newer 221 are nice because they are smaller and you can see the wire thru them to ensure it's all the way in. The older 222 series are still very good, but since there isn't a price savings on them, I see no reason to buy them.

EDIT: I was wrong, Amazon has a good deal on them that is cheaper, especially with free shipping: https://www.amazon.com/Wago-221-412...ef=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1498853911&sr=8-2-spons

Be careful with Amazon, while this is a good deal, these Wago's are sold in many other instances in which they are priced way too high.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> Nope, I don't think there is anything specific in the code. I leave it long and tape it off so it's clear that it's not in use. *I don't like using wirenuts because they don't stay on single conductors well*.


3M red/tans


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> 3M red/tans


I use the red/yellows, pretty much the same thing but the skirt is longer.

Anyway, I don't care for wirenuts on a single conductors, I don't feel like they will hold well.


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

HackWork said:


> I use the red/yellows, pretty much the same thing but the skirt is longer.
> 
> Anyway, I don't care for wirenuts on a single conductors, I don't feel like they will hold well.


if you strip the end off and use a red/tan I promise you it will not come off until you remove it


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

drspec said:


> if you strip the end off and use a red/tan I promise you it will not come off until you remove it


I promise you that I like using tape when leaving a spare and lever nuts when I will be using that capped off wire.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Now here's a gadget that might seem useless until you can use it, they make a little clip that lets you mount lever nuts on DIN rails.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

It would be cool if they made something like that but it linked a bunch of lever nuts together. So you can have like 15 terminals.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Fluke probes fit in the lever nuts. I do it all the time for instrument and loop testing.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Jlarson said:


> Fluke probes fit in the lever nuts. I do it all the time for instrument and loop testing.


Yeah, well I still think splatz should use an old set and cut off the probes and make dedicated lever nut test leads. :thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, well I still think splatz should use an old set and cut off the probes and make dedicated lever nut test leads. :thumbsup:


I guess I'm the only one that uses alligator clips.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

drspec said:


> if you strip the end off and use a red/tan I promise you it will not come off until you remove it


Same goes for the Ideal Twisters, or orange wirenuts. They are perfect for capping.


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## WPNortheast (Jun 4, 2017)

I got called on leaving the spare red for a future garbage disposal untaped and uncapped in the load center. The inspector called me back later in the day after I posted with the code reference 110.14 b "all splices, joints, and free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an insulating device identifies for the purpose."
So I will drive back to install one .059 cent 3m wirecap, definitely wont miss that ever again. Thanks all


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## inetdog (Apr 13, 2016)

WPNortheast said:


> I got called on leaving the spare red for a future garbage disposal untaped and uncapped in the load center. The inspector called me back later in the day after I posted with the code reference 110.14 b "all splices, joints, and free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an insulating device identifies for the purpose."
> So I will drive back to install one .059 cent 3m wirecap, definitely wont miss that ever again. Thanks all


Yup. Just make sure what you use is listed for use with a single wire.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I guess I'm the only one that uses alligator clips.


Alligator clips fall off or short out way too easily when you move the meter around or otherwise jiggle the wires.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

splatz said:


> If you look at the listings a lot of wire nuts are listed for single conductors. I always keep a few of the Ideal blues on hand, which I think are rated for a single #12 or #14, solid or stranded.





drspec said:


> if you strip the end off and use a red/tan I promise you it will not come off until you remove it





MTW said:


> Same goes for the Ideal Twisters, or orange wirenuts. They are perfect for capping.


Hmm. Well it turns out the Ideal blue and orange are listed for a single #14 but not a single #12, but the yellow are listed for a single #12 or #14. 

http://idealind.com/content/pdfs/specsheets/wire-nut-spec-sheet_models-71-76.pdf 

The 3M don't look like they have listings for single wires, only combinations. 

So I guess I have the wrong wire nut all over the place. I am not too worried, you can hardly yank them off on purpose.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> Alligator clips fall off or short out way too easily when you move the meter around or otherwise jiggle the wires.


I could see that with these:











I've had good luck with these:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

HackWork said:


> This is the cheapest place that I know of to get either of the 2 lever nuts: http://www.onlineelec.com/parts/wago/push-wire-connector/
> 
> The newer 221 are nice because they are smaller and you can see the wire thru them to ensure it's all the way in. The older 222 series are still very good, but since there isn't a price savings on them, I see no reason to buy them.
> 
> ...


This is when Amazon really shines. I received the Wago's 2 hours ago, 20 afters after I made this post yesterday and ordered them from Amazon. Free shipping with Prime and Saturday delivery.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

HackWork said:


> There's a lot of good tricks to use the wago lever nuts for. In this instance they work out well because once you put it on that single conductor, you leave it there. Now that conductor is safed off and it doesn't matter if you energize. Later on you can splice wires to that conductor by inserting them into the wago without shutting the power off.
> 
> When I need to work on a multi-gang box and do lots of changing stuff around, I will find the hot wire and cap it off with the wago first. Now everything is safe and when I need to splice into that hot wire I can do so by inserting the wires into the wago without having to touch live wires anymore like I would if I was using a wirenut.


I love that suggestion. Its in my memory bank for when the situation ever arises. Thanks



HackWork said:


> I use the red/yellows, pretty much the same thing but the skirt is longer.
> Anyway, I don't care for wirenuts on a single conductors, I don't feel like they will hold well.





drspec said:


> if you strip the end off and use a red/tan I promise you it will not come off until you remove it


I think they hold better when you leave the insulation on.
I'm not sure I ever did it any other way. Cut wire clean and twist on a nut.



MechanicalDVR said:


> I guess I'm the only one that uses alligator clips.





splatz said:


> Alligator clips fall off or short out way too easily when you move the meter around or otherwise jiggle the wires.





MechanicalDVR said:


> I could see that with these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ones on the bottom helped me to ruin a PLC when troubleshooting.
I'm not blaming the leads because it was my fault.
But it was lead ends like you show in picture #2.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

John Valdes said:


> I think they hold better when you leave the insulation on. I'm not sure I ever did it any other way. Cut wire clean and twist on a nut.


I was just wondering about this a couple weeks ago. I put a little blue wire nut on #12 stripped and unstripped. It was quite a bit easier to pull off the insulation. I wouldn't worry about it for a temporary cap while troubleshooting, but I'd strip it if I was leaving it.


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## itsunclebill (Jan 16, 2007)

HackWork said:


> Nope, I don't think there is anything specific in the code. I leave it long and tape it off so it's clear that it's not in use. I don't like using wirenuts because they don't stay on single conductors well.


The right size does


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

itsunclebill said:


> The right size does


Nope. Tape up permanently abandoned wire or put a lever nut on them if you will be using them yourself in the future. It's the only two options.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

splatz said:


> I was just wondering about this a couple weeks ago. I put a little blue wire nut on #12 stripped and unstripped. It was quite a bit easier to pull off the insulation. I wouldn't worry about it for a temporary cap while troubleshooting, but I'd strip it if I was leaving it.


By leaving the insulation on, it is sort of a fail safe in case it does ever come off (I have never had one come off that I know about) there is still insulation on it.

I guess either way is fine. One of those things we just were taught or learned on our own. :thumbsup:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> I was just wondering about this a couple weeks ago. I put a little blue wire nut on #12 stripped and unstripped. It was quite a bit easier to pull off the insulation. I wouldn't worry about it for a temporary cap while troubleshooting, but I'd strip it if I was leaving it.


I have capped wires many times with the small blue ideals, such as the leads on a multi lead control transformer or RIB relay. I always strip them first, never saw any that came off.


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

Gotta love those Wagos. More voltage drop than a wire nut connection, but seem AOK for low current lighting. Neat and clean install!!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Voltage drop?


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

HackWork said:


> Voltage drop?


 Yeah as in Ohm's Law.

I measured this once with 20A through their 221/222 5 space products and they do get warm. Not scary warm, but warmer than a wire nut connection.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

EJPHI said:


> Yeah as in Ohm's Law.
> 
> I measured this once with 20A through their 221/222 5 space products and they do get warm. Not scary warm, but warmer than a wire nut connection.


Tell me about the voltage drop and ohms law, thanks.


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

HackWork said:


> Tell me about the voltage drop and ohms law, thanks.


I'll have to dig up my data. The contact resistance ain't much but is measurable as I recall.

Ohm's law you know already I hope.

EJPHI


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

EJPHI said:


> I'll have to dig up my data. The contact resistance ain't much but is measurable as I recall.
> 
> Ohm's law you know already I hope.
> 
> EJPHI


I want to see the voltage drop difference between a lever nut and wirenut.


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## EJPHI (May 7, 2008)

HackWork said:


> I want to see the voltage drop difference between a lever nut and wirenut.


Will do.

Gimme a couple days


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I would love to see someone put 50 12" THHN jumpers connected by lever nuts in series with 50 12" THHN jumpers connected by wire nuts in series on the hot side of a temp light and measure current directly on each side. If someone hypothetically had a bunch of lever nuts around. And a day off.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I just got a fresh box of 100 2-port lever nuts. I should hook them all up and megger it.

Ohms law baby.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

Four different connectors tested. Lever nut not included in test but a regular Wago was.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

That was interesting Peter, but it's only essentially telling you which connector would last the longest in a toaster. The wire became a heating element and burnt up the connectors. Ultimately we still don't know which one had a higher resistance.


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

HackWork said:


> That was interesting Peter, but it's only essentially telling you which connector would last the longest in a toaster. The wire became a heating element and burnt up the connectors. Ultimately we still don't know which one had a higher resistance.



Yes, clearly it was a torture test and nothing more. Obviously, taking microvolt measurement across each connector under load would tell us a lot more. Did someone mention they are going to do that?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Look at this, Ideal makes an In-Sure connector like the lever nuts, but evidently only available in UK? 

http://www.wire-connectors.com/in-sure-lever-wire-connectors.html


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

splatz said:


> Look at this, Ideal makes an In-Sure connector like the lever nuts, but evidently only available in UK?
> 
> http://www.wire-connectors.com/in-sure-lever-wire-connectors.html


Much more demand for them in the UK since they are moving away from terminal blocks.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

This guy tested Wagos against wire nuts and did find a difference in a very casual test


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MTW said:


> Much more demand for them in the UK since they are moving away from terminal blocks.


I have seen pictures where they have what look like DIN type modular terminal blocks for panels. I always thought that was a great system, terminal blocks are just about perfect - I wonder why they're moving away from that. 

Do they somehow use terminal blocks in field wiring connections in junction boxes etc too?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

splatz said:


> I have seen pictures where they have what look like DIN type modular terminal blocks for panels. I always thought that was a great system, terminal blocks are just about perfect - I wonder why they're moving away from that.
> 
> Do they somehow use terminal blocks in field wiring connections in junction boxes etc too?


Yes, they do, traditionally they use the kind that was shown in the torture test video for field wiring- the small inline terminal with the white plastic. Those come on a long strip and you cut as many as you need. 

But now they are moving towards wagos and lever nuts. 

As far as I know industrial wiring is still DIN rail, but probably moving towards the lever-pressure type of connectors.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Those Ideal model lever nuts are cool, I'd like to see them in real life.

As far the the Wago brand, I wish they would come out with a 4-port model. But instead of being long like the 5-port, I think they should stack (2) X 2-port models on top of each other to make a square. This would be around the size of a typical wirenut. Since the newer model lever nut is so thin compared to the older model line it would work out well. They do this stacked method with normal Wagos,


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

2nd video clearly shows the wire nut as being a better connection. 


I wish he had included split bolts and a half roll of 3M 33 tape . That one will prove that including the split bolt lowers the resistance from just the conductor alone..........


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MTW said:


> Yes, they do, traditionally they use the kind that was shown in the torture test video for field wiring- the small inline terminal with the white plastic. Those come on a long strip and you cut as many as you need.


OK dumb question, if they're using the terminal block / strip type, what they do when they have to splice more than two wires?


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)




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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

splatz said:


> OK dumb question, if they're using the terminal block / strip type, what they do when they have to splice more than two wires?



No clue, you'll have to ask a UK electrician or google some pics of UK wiring.


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

MTW said:


> No clue, you'll have to ask a UK electrician or google some pics of UK wiring.




Use bigger connector block or install a junction box.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If your connectors aren't a lot better than your pranks I am sending those Wagos right back. 



Essex said:


> https://youtu.be/aBtV3oHpfDE


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> OK dumb question, if they're using the terminal block / strip type, what they do when they have to splice more than two wires?


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## MTW (Aug 28, 2013)

UK junction boxes and panels look woefully undersized.


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

MTW said:


> UK junction boxes and panels look woefully undersized.




Depends on what you are trying to achieve.


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

splatz said:


> If your connectors aren't a lot better than your pranks I am sending those Wagos right back.




I love this one:


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


>


Shouldn't that be in gems of the trade ?


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MTW said:


> UK junction boxes and panels look woefully undersized.


I remember seeing some pictures here and there, I thought they might be modular but IDK.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

emtnut said:


> Shouldn't that be in gems of the trade ?


It is in the Euro gems thread.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Essex said:


> Use bigger connector block or install a junction box.


I meant more like if you have say four cables at a box and you want to splice all the neutrals, it's easy with the right wire nut, I don't see how you'd do it with the terminal strip / chop block. They don't look like you could use more than one wire in a port for a jumper. Even if they do, what a pain in the ass, and waste of space.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Essex, please tell me someone has introduced you to The Three Stooges. 



Essex said:


> I love this one:
> 
> https://youtu.be/V6l2py68WY4


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

splatz said:


> I meant more like if you have say four cables at a box and you want to splice all the neutrals, it's easy with the right wire nut, I don't see how you'd do it with the terminal strip / chop block. They don't look like you could use more than one wire in a port for a jumper. Even if they do, what a pain in the ass, and waste of space.


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

splatz said:


> Essex, please tell me someone has introduced you to The Three Stooges.




Sorry.


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