# just for critic



## xpertpc (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't like the wild door wiring but other than that she's cherry.


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## glen1971 (Oct 10, 2012)

Don't carry any tyraps? A few would have made it look alot better....


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

yes traps, thats good, were out of stock when i installed now they are in, will replace then get another pic of it.thanks.


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

ok.what would you suggest apart from the door wiring. posted it here to get insights.thanks


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm cool without tywraps when the wires aren't labelled.


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

xlink said:


> I'm cool without tywraps when the wires aren't labelled.


 come to think of it now labelling is important.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I was told to never say something unless you can say something nice. I can't.

What passes around here for neat work, would have gotten you fired or questioned as to your ability, from many places I have worked.

Some wire numbers would at least make the OP panel look like someone was at least trying.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> I was told to never say something unless you can say something nice. I can't.
> 
> What passes around here for neat work, would have gotten you fired or questioned as to your ability, from many places I have worked.
> 
> Some wire numbers would at least make the OP panel look like someone was at least trying.


Practice makes perfect :thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Keep up the good work nickson....:thumbsup:


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

John Valdes said:


> I was told to never say something unless you can say something nice. I can't.
> 
> What passes around here for neat work, would have gotten you fired or questioned as to your ability, from many places I have worked.
> 
> Some wire numbers would at least make the OP panel look like someone was at least trying.


Thanks john.am going to provide BEFORE and AFTER PICS.Thats why i need input from experienced guys like you.apart from the numbers anything else?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

nickson said:


> Thanks john.am going to provide BEFORE and AFTER PICS.Thats why i need input from experienced guys like you.apart from the numbers anything else?


Good to see you can take some criticism.
Personally I would remove every single wire from the panel. Strip it bare.

Then go sit down and draw a schematic of what you want this thing to do.
Show the drawing to someone who understands them and get feedback.
You can post the drawing here.

I would then install terminal blocks and wire channel as needed and start to rewire the complete panel one wire at a time. Neatly! And put a number on each end of each wire. Every single wire.
Check marking each wire on your drawing as they get installed.

Once complete, apply control power to the panel and verify everything works as intended.

This takes time to learn. The most important thing is the drawing. The MOST important thing.


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

John Valdes said:


> Good to see you can take some criticism.
> Personally I would remove every single wire from the panel. Strip it bare.
> Then go sit down and draw a schematic of what you want this thing to do.
> Show the drawing to someone who understands them and get feedback.
> ...


this work starts tomorrow:thumbsup:..the good thing is that machine is never busy so its easy to get it and re-wire.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

nickson said:


> this work starts tomorrow:thumbsup:..the good thing is that machine is never busy so its easy to get it and re-wire.


If you have more than one machine doing the same thing, you can build a spare control panel to use while you are upgrading the others.
Yours looks small enough?

I understand sometimes you do not have the time to do a great job. I get that.
But if you are going to work there and want to do it right, start thinking about tomorrow.
How you can make your job easier.

So get that drawing together before you do anything else. Drawing first. Every single time.
Do not touch one tool until the drawing is done and you are certain it is correct.


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

If you make a drawing, put a copy in the box. It's one of the things we do for other electricians.

I'm always too rushed to make an open wiring job look good. Panduit is my friend.
http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-duct/


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

John Valdes said:


> If you have more than one machine doing the same thing, you can build a spare control panel to use while you are upgrading the others.
> Yours looks small enough?
> 
> I understand sometimes you do not have the time to do a great job. I get that.
> ...


correct plc/slc wiring requires detailed planning and design.
if you do this from the start with detailed drawings and planning
you have the drawings / diagrams to refer to for reference and a baseboard for future changes.
these also give future electricians a good tool to diagnose with.
labeling wires is a must do item as it speeds up troubleshooting greatly.

you wouldn't believe how often I've had to sort through a nest of unlabeled noodles to find problem circuits.
or the choice of curses i muttered while doing it
such how i would happily hang them by the balls and use them as a pinata!:laughing:


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

nickson said:


> this is one of the ABB i replaced.


Spaghetti anyone?


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

gnuuser said:


> correct plc/slc wiring requires detailed planning and design.
> if you do this from the start with detailed drawings and planning
> you have the drawings / diagrams to refer to for reference and a baseboard for future changes.
> these also give future electricians a good tool to diagnose with.
> ...


Just think how mush better our jobs would be if everyone did this. Used drawings, wire numbers and channel.
No pulling on wires to see where they go. 

I always made a drawing by hand and had it checked by other specialists on the job for accuracy and for clarity.
Its amazing how many way one thing can be accomplished.
Then once I was certain it was right, I sent it to engineering and had it professionally drawn.

Put one copy in the panel door, one in the shop file cabinet and a master in the engineering dept.
I always kept one for myself too.

then any time a change was made, it had to be corrected on each copy.
This was written into the ISO requirements so it had to be done.

In the early years we just drew it, put one in the door and one in a file cabinet for future use.


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

[_quote=John Valdes;1075717]So get that drawing together before you do anything else. Drawing first. Every single time._
_Do not touch one tool until the drawing is done and you are certain it is correct.[/quote]_

_this is awesome it s agreat rule to follow"get that drawing together before you do anything else. Drawing first. Every single time." iam going to make it my rule.the problem here is that prodution guys are always on your neck standing there as you work ready with their material.i remember i had to finish this in 90 MINS, WAS SWEATING INFACT.but this is not an excuse.workmanship matters and i got this even from school._


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

nickson said:


> [_quote=John Valdes;1075717]So get that drawing together before you do anything else. Drawing first. Every single time._
> _Do not touch one tool until the drawing is done and you are certain it is correct._


_this is awesome it s agreat rule to follow"get that drawing together before you do anything else. Drawing first. Every single time." iam going to make it my rule.the problem here is that prodution guys are always on your neck standing there as you work ready with their material.i remember i had to finish this in 90 MINS, WAS SWEATING INFACT.but this is not an excuse.workmanship matters and i got this even from school._[/quote]

This is when you must stand up and ask them.

Fix this so it runs one day or fix it so it runs for one year.

Thats why I suggested doing things in advance. Before they need it.

Take that panel you pictured. Is it in operation yet?
If its not, you have already had the time to strip it out and get started on the drawing.

If its in operation, start on the drawing. The next time its down get it for as long as you can.

Or if reasonable, build a new panel and just install it when its needed. You can leave the drive out of the spare if money is the issue.

If you work in the maintenance dept and this is your steady job, you will find a way.

What are you guys doing there. Whats the process?

One more thing. Add a terminal strip at the bottom so you can easily connect all the outside elements. This makes it real easy to install.


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## linklogix (Jul 7, 2013)

John Valdes is giving you excellent advice. I am very impressed with your willingness to learn and being able to take criticism. I don’t know how old you are but most young people in my area have all the answers and don’t want to hear what you have to say. If you keep your attitude, you will most definitely be a star.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

John Valdes said:


> Just think how mush better our jobs would be if everyone did this. Used drawings, wire numbers and channel.
> No pulling on wires to see where they go.


Just think how much better things would be if customers were willing to pay us to do it that way.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

BBQ said:


> Just think how much better things would be if customers were willing to pay us to do it that way.


I know you cannot do what we did in our plants because we were there all the time. EC's come and go.
Time is money for the EC. In manufacturing, your bread and butter is improvements and preventative actions.
I understand that as a contractor, you cannot or will not take the time or ask your customer to pay for this special attention.

On the other hand, there are many contractors and shops that specialize in this type of work.
In that case there is no excuse for not doing it right the first time.
Even though some do not always do good work.

This is the foremost reason to do these things in house.
We make the time and take the time we need.


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## bill4807 (Jan 4, 2013)

ahhh, thats looks familiar to what I see everyday..If you were to make it a 6' panel of spaghetti. lol. JK. Did you also program the drive too? if not you should read through the manual and familiar yourself with it those smaller ABB are good to learn on.


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

John Valdes;1076482
[I said:


> What are you guys doing there. Whats the process?


sorry had internet problem for a while but am back now
basically we get alluminium scrap material plus alluminium ingots. heat them up in a furnace to about 850 celcius.then the moltem metal is transfered to a holding furnace. and later to a continuous caster to get the alluminium coil as shown in the second diagram.this alluminium coil then after cooling passes through a cold rolling mill, using xray to reduce the gauge. then it can be made into circular sheets to make sufurias( maybe you even have it home we export alot of these products),and also flat sheets to make alluminium roofing sheets which don't rust. 
hope this is helpful if you want more info feel free to ask:thumbsup: [/i]


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

gnuuser said:


> you wouldn't believe how often I've had to sort through a nest of unlabeled noodles to find problem circuits.
> or the choice of curses i muttered while doing it


i get the same problem almost everyday.i know how it feels when just one wire gets out from a connector and you dont have a diagram or its not labelled,i think i have cursed more than you in this field. most of the old machines here dont have electrical diagrams.though am a juniour employee and the advice i get from this forum will start making the diagrams good thing am here in this forum when am stuck i can always call for help


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

Peewee0413 said:


> Spaghetti anyone?



this will be my last spaghetti,so in future you wont have any to pass around :thumbup:


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

John Valdes said:


> _t_
> Take that panel you pictured. Is it in operation yet?
> .


 yes john it is in operation so i decided to work on the offline tasks befor i get the machine.
basically the drive controls a motor which is connected to some mechanical gears we call levellers to level the strip ,so when the alluminium strip(as seen in the pic) gets in .it can move forward,backwards,increasing/decreasing the feed speed, then just a head as you can see there is a pneumatic shear which can shear it according to the length desired by the customer.


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## Safari (Jul 9, 2013)

bill4807 said:


> ahhh, thats looks familiar to what I see everyday..If y*ou were to make it a 6' panel of spaghetti.* lol. JK. Did you also program the drive too? if not you should read through the manual and familiar yourself with it those smaller ABB are good to learn on.


the *spaghetti *machine yes did work.am glad my company really invests in drives and i have had a chance to programme ABB drives(2.2kw,4kw,11kw),micromaster drives,delta, siemens-sinamics type. however i have not programmed dc drives but we do have them.do you have experience in dc drives?we have6RA70 SIMOREG dc drives and the 6R80 SINAMICS dc drives.for some reasons siemens always send their staff to program.so i have not done any


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