# Question about burnt/melted lighting wire



## Mangyver (Mar 8, 2013)

Hello. I am wondering what would cause the wires for a chandelier that uses 12x60w bulbs on a 120V residential circuit to burn and / or melt? 
I work for lighting store and a customer brought in two chandeliers that we had sold to them and they both had wires that looked like they were cooked. I believe that the lights had 18AWG stranded wires. 

I am asking because my boss would want to know, so that we can make a claim with the manufacturer. Thank you.


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## Sparky J (May 17, 2011)

Are they from overseas like the UK?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The customer over-lamped the fixture, fried it, and is trying to get it fixed under warranty.


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## union347sparky (Feb 29, 2012)

480sparky said:


> The customer over-lamped the fixture, fried it, and is trying to get it fixed under warranty.


I second that.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

What's the ampacity rating on #18...hmmmmm....rhetorical ......


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peewee0413 said:


> What's the ampacity rating on #18...hmmmmm....rhetorical ......



10........ for a 6a load.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Overlamping? Trying to get a tan?


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Are they candleabra based lamps? I believe the largest you can buy is a 60 watt lamp.


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## Mangyver (Mar 8, 2013)

mbednarik said:


> Are they candleabra based lamps? I believe the largest you can buy is a 60 watt lamp.


Yes they are. Pretty sure they didn't use higher wattage bulbs since(as you have already mentioned) you can't buy anything higher. Also, we supplied them with the bulbs. The fixtures were made in China, but bought from a U.S. company.

Any chance it could be a problem with their circuit or perhaps within the fixtures themselves?


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Mangyver said:


> Any chance it could be a problem with their circuit or perhaps within the fixtures themselves?


No, it has to be something going on at the fixture itself. The circuit either supplies current or doesn't.

Check the wire size to make sure it really is 18. Where is the "cooking" occurring?


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## Mangyver (Mar 8, 2013)

Vintage Sounds said:


> No, it has to be something going on at the fixture itself. The circuit either supplies current or doesn't.
> 
> Check the wire size to make sure it really is 18. Where is the "cooking" occurring?


I'll check it again and I'll see if I can upload a picture of it when I get back to work tomorrow. I think I might have to take it apart to find the source.
On one fixture, the clear insulation was completely black. 
Anyway, I'll try to upload a pic of it. Too hard to describe what exactly looks like.

Would hooking it up to a 240v circuit cause this?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Mangyver said:


> I'll check it again and I'll see if I can upload a picture of it when I get back to work tomorrow. I think I might have to take it apart to find the source.
> On one fixture, the clear insulation was completely black.
> Anyway, I'll try to upload a pic of it. Too hard to describe what exactly looks like.
> 
> Would hooking it up to a 240v circuit cause this?


It would just blow all 12 bulbs.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If it's cooking at the lamp base, it could be defective sockets.... those rivets sometimes are loose and that can lead to arcing & heating.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Made in china.......


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Clear insulation? Did they use speaker wire lol..


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Peewee0413 said:


> Clear insulation? Did they use speaker wire lol..


You must not do much resi. Clear lamp cord is very common on chandeliers.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

I don't do any res...I'm strictly industrial. I only see a direct short causing every wire to heat up and burn. Anyone ever hook an alligator clip hot to neutral ? Wire smokes and shrivels.........


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

I thought hard, blackened wires at the socket was a feature and not a flaw. Has anyone seen a used fixture wired with lamp cord that wasn't brittle?


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

I despise residential work. Tried it after starting industrial. Kicked my ass...props to guys who handle the $h!t work, and sometimes almost half the pay of industrial ...


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## xlink (Mar 12, 2012)

Peewee0413 said:


> I despise residential work. Tried it after starting industrial. Kicked my ass...props to guys who handle the $h!t work, and sometimes almost half the pay of industrial ...


 I'd love to drop residential, but every customer I care about lives in a house. What do you do when your industrial customer's manager wants work done in his house?

Maybe steak wouldn't be so special if it wasn't accompanied by brussels sprouts, and industrial might suck if you didn't at least try residential. I think the proverb is "I was sad that I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet."


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## Mangyver (Mar 8, 2013)

Here is a picture of one of them.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Sorry.... I can't see much of anything there.


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Mangyver said:


> Here is a picture of one of them.


Can you get anything better than that. Looks like an ugly lamp though.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Low quality pic for sure...


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## JoeKP (Nov 16, 2009)

Looks like undersized wire though


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Wires pinched? You'll see the kink if it was pinched


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

can't tell the pic sucks


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## Mangyver (Mar 8, 2013)

Sorry for the low quality pic. Took it with my iPad and it was kinda rushed. I'll try to get abetted one. Also, I think that by re-sizing it for the forum kinda reduced the image quality as well as the size. 

I managed to get a bit of a closer look at one of them and I'm not sue, but it looks as if the wire may have been damaged prior to installation, or the insulation could have melted off afterwards. 
Could it be possible for the metal to have gotten hot enough to melt the wiring due to the number of bulbs burning? Though I would think that the manufacturer would have taken that into consideration. Anyway, I'm only speculating. 

Gonna try and get a better picture and also try and get a better look at the whole light. By the way, this is the back of the light that I took a picture of.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Is this one of those dish pan shaped chandeliers with a whole bunch of crystal balls hanging from it in a spiral pattern? With a bunch of GU10 lamps pointing downwards?


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Ya it burnt like damaged wires


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## mikhen (Jan 11, 2013)

That looks like a pan light with the bulbs under the pan. Typical flush mount ceiling light. 
Shouldn't there be a piece of usually fiberglass insulation between the pan and the wire connections?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Maybe fixture was designed for 240 volts. Not so uncommon. either that or wire was just crap to begin with.


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Hmmmmm


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## Mangyver (Mar 8, 2013)

Peewee0413 said:


> Shouldn't there be a piece of usually fiberglass insulation between the pan and the wire connections?





> I'd say yes, its just hard for him to take a pic with insulation blocking the wires


It is not a flush mount. Here is a link to what the chandelier is supposed to look like:http://elegantlighting.com/products/2528D14C.html


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## Peewee0413 (Oct 18, 2012)

Did you see any signs of damage? (other than burning)


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## Mangyver (Mar 8, 2013)

Peewee0413 said:


> Did you see any signs of damage? (other than burning)


Hard to tell since everything is blackened and melted.


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