# Kohler generators and their software issues



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

interesting. I think maybe they goofed when they got into the go-kart models. I've only installed a few in the 150 to 250 range (3phase), and they are champs. Did you ever install generacs ? If so, how would you compare them to the onans ?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

What do you need to do to become a dealer with them


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Switch to Generac and it will set you free.. :laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

captkirk said:


> What do you need to do to become a dealer with them


See the local distributor. Same with Onan. Truthfully I won't sell another Kohler. You have to provide 24 hour service which we do anyway but I'm tired of dealing with upset customers calling late at night with a generator that shutdown and left them without power.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

wildleg said:


> interesting. I think maybe they goofed when they got into the go-kart models. I've only installed a few in the 150 to 250 range (3phase), and they are champs. Did you ever install generacs ? If so, how would you compare them to the onans ?


Yep generac builds good diesel unit. My opinion on any model generac makes other than then their industrial units is they are junk. It's just the air cooled with Kohler at least. But junk is junk. Onan's have preformed flawless so far.


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

<3 Onan.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Damn I was going to go with Kholer but I think I'll stick with Generac now. 

Thanks Bulldog!


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The one Onan liquid cooled I have out there has done well. No experience with the air cooled units. Being on the service end of the Generacs, I see the problem children. I don't think for the money, they are really that bad.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Just had a meeting with Onan today in Newark... thanks for the heads up... although I cant say ive had any problems with Kohler yet.. Had two customers on their kohlers for about 9 days straight so ..... we shall see....We had a meeting in Monroe a few months ago about some common issues and many of the problems start with installation errors.. Improper gas size, too small a gas meter, poorly terminated low voltage.... I haven't lost complete faith and from what Ive read about generac.... its still no comparison..
maybe there is some issues with the software but the mechanics are still leauges ahead of generac.
The way I look at it ... if your going to offer a product to your customers and stand behind it, its got to be top notch....


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Did my first liquid cooled service call a couple of weeks back and will probably bring in the parts kit for that before I bring on another line. I have three briggs that I service now too, so I may yet look into the service deal with them too.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

We have a big storm coming our way next week so it will be interesting to see how it all goes...I will let all you fellas know.... About a month ago I did a courtesy visit for many of my contracts and so far they all checked out.. 
I had one firmware issue with one 14 RESL but all the others were good.. 

Maybe your just being hard on them ....?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I've never dealt with the small stuff with the software but it doen't supprise me that it's glitchy. It's just some half ass software they tossed together to make a cool sounding feature. Very little or no testing before release.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Power grid test in November. Don't forget.........:thumbsup:


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

captkirk said:


> Just had a meeting with Onan today in Newark... thanks for the heads up... although I cant say ive had any problems with Kohler yet.. Had two customers on their kohlers for about 9 days straight so ..... we shall see....We had a meeting in Monroe a few months ago about some common issues and many of the problems start with installation errors.. Improper gas size, too small a gas meter, poorly terminated low voltage.... I haven't lost complete faith and from what Ive read about generac.... its still no comparison.. maybe there is some issues with the software but the mechanics are still leauges ahead of generac. The way I look at it ... if your going to offer a product to your customers and stand behind it, its got to be top notch....



I've got 6 with hunting issues. Huge service procedure you have to go thru if updating software doesn't work. Now they have released a more onsite adjustable system. Try explaining to a customer why after they paid 15 grand for a generator it's left them in the dark two times.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

I've sold and repaired alll the major brands. Onan, Kohker, Generac. I can honestly say Onan is a superior product in every way.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Bulldog1 said:


> I've sold and repaired alll the major brands. Onan, Kohker, Geberac. I can honestly say Onan is a superior product in every way.


Do you know about the breathing tubes you can install on the regulator..?


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I know some resl had some old firmware..did you upgrade all your gas meters...? And sometimes adjusting the rpm can help with hunting.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Bulldog1 said:


> I've sold and repaired alll the major brands. Onan, Kohker, Geberac. I can honestly say Onan is a superior product in every way.


As soon as I read your post I went down to a local distributor to sign up... I want to give my customers a rock solid product...ill still sell kohler but im gonna push Cummins like hell..


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

captkirk said:


> I know some resl had some old firmware..did you upgrade all your gas meters...? And sometimes adjusting the rpm can help with hunting.


. We use 2 psi system. Half pound regulator with pressure set at 10 inch water column. Generators run best at that setting. I'm factory certified up to 125KW


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

captkirk said:


> Do you know about the breathing tubes you can install on the regulator..?


. That's the first thing you try if updating the software doesn't work.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Bulldog1 said:


> . That's the first thing you try if updating the software doesn't work.


Too much pressure can be a bad thing too...


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

captkirk said:


> Too much pressure can be a bad thing too...



Funny thing is I went out to do a start up where they had a 2psi system with no external regulator. They had already ran it 2 hours like that. We put a regulator on it and it worked fine :thumbup:. I expected the secondary regulator to be bad after running that way but it didn't. :blink:

That said.......
For optimal proformance use a 2psi gas supply system regulated down to 1/2 psi. 
You set the water column close to 10 or 11 inches of water column. On a half psi system you can only get 7 inches of water column. That's the minimum fuel supply recommendation. All generator run better closer to 11 inches of water column.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

captkirk said:


> Just had a meeting with Onan today in Newark... thanks for the heads up... although I cant say ive had any problems with Kohler yet.. Had two customers on their kohlers for about 9 days straight so ..... we shall see....We had a meeting in Monroe a few months ago about some common issues and many of the problems start with installation errors.. Improper gas size, too small a gas meter, poorly terminated low voltage.... I haven't lost complete faith and from what Ive read about generac.... its still no comparison.. maybe there is some issues with the software but the mechanics are still leauges ahead of generac. The way I look at it ... if your going to offer a product to your customers and stand behind it, its got to be top notch....


Our installations are always correct. We call the gas co have them upgrade to 2psi and install correct regulator. Our work is top shelf. We are best contractor 4 years in a row on AL. Seeing as how we do sales SERVICE and REPAIR and warranty work I know it's more than just the software. Saying they are better than a generac isn't saying much. If generac is the kia and kohler is the lexus then onan is a Ferrari........We stand behind what we sell thus the change to Onan a much better designed and built product. And with the new lower pricing it's a no brainer. :thumbsup:


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## vinister (Apr 11, 2012)

I sell Cummins Onan on a daily basis and my team installs them without issue. I haven't had a single call-back about a genset in 4 years. 

We install them on trucks and trailers and they are used daily, not just when there's an outage. They power everything from large AC units, heaters, computers, rectifiers, etc. They are often installed in cramped spaces, frequently get ran out of fuel, and are not likely to be well maintained. Still, they just don't have issues.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

vinister said:


> I sell Cummins Onan on a daily basis and my team installs them without issue. I haven't had a single call-back about a genset in 4 years. We install them on trucks and trailers and they are used daily, not just when there's an outage. They power everything from large AC units, heaters, computers, rectifiers, etc. They are often installed in cramped spaces, frequently get ran out of fuel, and are not likely to be well maintained. Still, they just don't have issues.


And that is the reason we sell Onan's now.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

How about the liquid cooled Generacs? I always liked the idea of 1,800 RPMs :thumbup:


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

DIYer4Life said:


> How about the liquid cooled Generacs? I always liked the idea of 1,800 RPMs :thumbup:


All generacs except for their diesels are junk IMO


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Bulldog1 said:


> All generacs except for their diesels are junk IMO


What is that based on? How much experience do you have with the watercooled Generacs?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Not all are 1800rpm. The 22, and 27k are. the 25 and 30 spin at 3600. Not sure how it goes higher up.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

DIYer4Life said:


> What is that based on? How much experience do you have with the watercooled Generacs?


I used to sell Generac. It's based on my experience with them. Had repeated issues with them just like we are with the Kohlers. Their liquid cooled units are better than their air cooled but they are still junk compared to Onan. If you've never sold and repaired all the other brands you don't have anything to compare to. We put in all brands and provide service and repair. But we only sell what we can stand behind and it's not Kohler or generac


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Bulldog1 said:


> I used to sell Generac. It's based on my experience with them. Had repeated issues with them just like we are with the Kohlers. Their liquid cooled units are better than their air cooled but they are still junk compared to Onan. If you've never sold and repaired all the other brands you don't have anything to compare to. We put in all brands and provide service and repair. But we only sell what we can stand behind and it's not Kohler or generac


How many Generac liquid cooled did you sell?


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Onan's new models are out. They have 1800 and now 3600 rpm liquid cooled units. I don't plan to sell any liquid cooled 3600 rpm units but I have the option. They cost less than the 1800 rpm units.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Does the 20kw. unit come air cooled and what is the cost with ATS??


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

B4T said:


> Does the 20kw. unit come air cooled and what is the cost with ATS??


20kw onan air cooled with 200 amp SE 3R transfer switch is $900 more than a generac with same features. On an comes with load shedding built in, and from what I can gather, comes with a remote display that can be installed in the home as well. Check out www.norwall.com for pricing comparisons. 

I'm going to try and get the old man to switch back to onan. Its all we sold until the 2000s.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Going_Commando said:


> 20kw onan air cooled with 200 amp SE 3R transfer switch is $900 more than a generac with same features. On an comes with load shedding built in, and from what I can gather, comes with a remote display that can be installed in the home as well. Check out www.norwall.com for pricing comparisons.
> 
> I'm going to try and get the old man to switch back to onan. Its all we sold until the 2000s.


THat's pretty good. I remember the Kohlers didn't come with load shedding even though they were more expensive than the Generacs.

If the Onans come with the load shedding and all the features of the Generac for under a thousand more, it's a no brainer, IMO.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Both Kohler and Onan just reduced their prices to be more competitive with generac. Kohlers load shed is a separate box called a Load Control Module. We've put about 20 in.


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## DIYer4Life (Nov 11, 2013)

Bulldog1 said:


> Both Kohler and Onan just reduced their prices to be more competitive with generac. Kohlers load shed is a separate box called a Load Control Module. We've put about 20 in.


It's costs about $600 extra, right?

I always liked the way Generac included it inside of the ATS and it didn't cost extra.

If Onan does that too, then it's a really good deal.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

DIYer4Life said:


> How many Generac liquid cooled did you sell?


3 was enough............all 3 had issues frequently. We've put in at least 20 and replaced several within a few years.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Again last night I had to get out of bed at 1am. Another 20resal Kohler started then shutdown. Left the customer in the dark. I go and reset it and start it and it runs 5 minutes and shuts down from a under speed code. I'm so disappointed in Kohler. Time to start replacing the units we have out there with Onan's. I won't sell anything that I can't stand behind.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Keep us in the loop when you change brands. Photos of new installs would be great. I have never seen an air cooled Onan before so I am interested in how well it goes together and what advantages it has.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

nrp3 said:


> Keep us in the loop when you change brands. Photos of new installs would be great. I have never seen an air cooled Onan before so I am interested in how well it goes together and what advantages it has.



I'm for sure going to be keeping everyone informed about Kohlers shortcomings. Onan's also if I find any. I have a better success rate from the generacs I've installed than the Kohlers. That's saying a lot. Stick to building toilets and industrial gennys Kohler


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Thats really disappointing.... I only want to sell good stuff..


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

captkirk said:


> Thats really disappointing.... I only want to sell good stuff..


Me too! Exactly why I'm selling Onan's now!


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Bulldog1 said:


> I used to sell Generac. It's based on my experience with them. Had repeated issues with them just like we are with the Kohlers. Their liquid cooled units are better than their air cooled but they are still junk compared to Onan. If you've never sold and repaired all the other brands you don't have anything to compare to. We put in all brands and provide service and repair. But we only sell what we can stand behind and it's not Kohler or generac


What issues did you have?

"generac sucks"

Why

" ahhh umm because, generacs suck"

Its tiring reading this over and over again without any actual example or reason. The statement always comes from someone who sells/installs the other brand.


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## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

svh19044 said:


> What issues did you have? "generac sucks" Why " ahhh umm because, generacs suck" Its tiring reading this over and over again without any actual example or reason. The statement always comes from someone who sells/installs the other brand.


. 

If I listed all the issues I'd be here all day. If you sell generacs and REPAIR them you already knus the issues they have. If you don't fix em you have no clue. I've sold generacs im speaking from experience.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I have had generally good luck with my Generac units. I have lost a motor. I have had a couple of bad regulators out of the box. Taking on GE/Briggs here soon as well.


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## Awg-Dawg (Jan 23, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> I have had a couple of bad regulators out of the box.


Im going to look at my bosses generator next week.(Wont start)

Everything he tells me leads to it being the regulator.

Is there an easy way of testing or telling its bad?


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

Ive notice the generac generators must be having problems with the stepper motors, ive had two with overspeed alarms and i call service and they say bad stepper motors


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Last year when we had trouble with regulators, they wouldn't hold pressure during the gas installers tests. Swap in a new regulator and all was well. Overspeed could be a couple of things. What size and what controller.


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

nrp3 said:


> Last year when we had trouble with regulators, they wouldn't hold pressure during the gas installers tests. Swap in a new regulator and all was well. Overspeed could be a couple of things. What size and what controller.


20kw evolution


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Bad stepper is possible. Do the steppers pass the ohm test? I have one of those waiting for install next week and another possible in two weeks.


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

nrp3 said:


> Bad stepper is possible. Do the steppers pass the ohm test? I have one of those waiting for install next week and another possible in two weeks.


Yes they all show 10 ohms, the guy from generac said usually it will show infinity from black to red if im correct


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Correct, and still overspeed?


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

Yupp still overspeed, i was told it was the stepper but now im not sure


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Someone swap it with same result?


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## jett95 (Sep 18, 2012)

Havent swap out yet i ordered a new from generac, waiting for it to come in


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

How are Kohlers commercial units under 125kw?


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## svh19044 (Jul 1, 2008)

Bulldog1 said:


> .
> 
> If I listed all the issues I'd be here all day. If you sell generacs and REPAIR them you already knus the issues they have. If you don't fix em you have no clue. I've sold generacs im speaking from experience.


I've been installing them for nearly 10 years now, and haven't had any problems with a single one.

So your response of "uh um you wouldn't know" doesn't work.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I have to add ..im 3 for 3 right now...one is a 80 kw...whew (wiping forhead)..


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Two more for the season and thats it . Digging is miserable.


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## somecan (9 mo ago)

Bulldog1 said:


> Most of you know we have been selling Kohler generators for several years. About 6 months ago we had to make a business decision to stop selling Kohlers. Last thing I want is a customer complaining they paid for a back up power generator that never seems to work after paying us thousands of dollars to install and maintain one for then. I monitor about 30 we have installed with oncue remote monitoring. With the air cooled models I have a 25% success ratio due to repeated shutdowns from software issues. Eventually they release another update which fixes one problem but creates another. I started pushing and selling Onan about 6 months ago. I have 5 installed and a 100% success rate. New models just came out. After selling and fixing Kohlers for 3 years it sad to say they are nothing but a higher price generac or in other words junk. If you only install them you have no idea how bad it is. From shutdowns to hunting and surging issues. I'll not sell another Kohler but I am going to continue to maintain the 30 I have out there. I'll keep everyone up to date with how they compare to the Onan's and Gillette's we install. Very disappointed in Kohler and their product. I'm thinking they should stick to making toilets.


We have not had the same experiences with Kohler, I do not know the exact numbers but it exceeds 400 since 2014. We provide proactive service plans for all the systems we install and since 1984 that would be close to 6000 units installed. Our proactive service plans include attachment of an external load annually, stressing the engine across typically across 7 different load stages if speaking about the 20 KW air cooled. My first question to you, in an attempt to help, so you load test your generators with external load? Do you use monometers to verify fuel pressures at the different load stages? Do you make calibrations to the governors for the generators you have spoken about, all governor components may have oscillations at load dump at different levels of load at certain operating temperatures? If you have then that should answer my first two questions as you have to use external load you can control to do either, so I assume you did, sounds like you are on top of your game. You mentioned Onan, exactly how much do you know about Onan? Speaking about what I know, I visit every manufacturer prior to representing the product. We load test each manufacturers product prior to providing anything to our customer base. This said, by far, Kohler's quality is as we see it premier. Sure we have have a couple of engine issues, mostly we feel piston connection points to the crank but out of what we sold that represent less than 0.5 %, that's pretty good. Back to Onan, our experience, very proprietary, wanted us to sale and install but if there was an issue, they would send out one of their diesel guys which we have found, know nothing about a gaseous generator. Onan while making diesel sets for awhile, the residential market is a totally different market so they are still new to the game. Maybe we are a special case, just us that happens with, don't know? 

To be honest, I was offended with your goings on about the Kohler generator, especially when comparing somehow in the same camp as Generac. We began with Generac and believe it or not, they had the best residential product of anyone back in the late 90's, early 2000's. Generac's problem, hard to find anyone to represent their product that actually understood anything with reference to electrical and or combustion engine theory. Most probably have no idea what I am speaking about but they used mechanical governors, there were six different calibrations which has to be performed, using an external load to calibrate. To this date, we find Generac units which never converted nor calibrated, there is a visible tell tell for this if a person had correct experience with the product. Generac chose a path, their path was to sale more units no matter what, you can only do that one way if there is no trades type support for the theories associated with their productions, their quality speaks to that. Anyway, and I say this nicely, we have had no experience with software issues, yes they need calibrations especially to eliminate oscillation at certain load stages however if you have no experience with using load banks with reference to making mechanical or electronic governor calibrations, you will always have issues with any manufactured generator. Maybe not this years but it happens with all manufactured machines, lots of things to work out in a complex machine. Good luck!


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Nine year old thread and the Op hasn’t been here in two years.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Generac's quality is fine. I still install and service three brands including Kohler, Briggs and Generac. I think Briggs has made some positive changes to catch up with the other two. I find the fuel conversion thing with all three brands still, even when it is simple as rotating something and maybe an entry into the controller. Still clueless people out there doing installs. Can't be bothered to read the install manuals. Everything is spelled out pretty clearly.


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