# Service Upgrade Prices



## bd06 (Mar 22, 2011)

I recently went into business for myself. I spent 5 years doing commercial/industrial electric before jumping into the residential side of things. I was wondering what most of you guys are charging for service upgrades and panel changes? Any input is greatly appreciated! I never had any experience in the estimating side of things and i just dont want to screw myself out of money by bidding too high or too low.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

tree fiddy


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Take into consideration the cost of materials and mark up. 
Estimate the amount of time needed to perform your tasks. 
Calculate how much you need to charge per hour in order to turn a profit.
Take into account the required fees for permits and the like. 
Take your Materials Cost + Labor Cost + Permit Fees = Your price.

We can't tell you what to charge because we honestly don't know your expenses and what you need to charge to stay in business.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Just did a 100 amp for $947.11
 
Installed 2 new loadcenters, 30 space 100 amp in basement and 100 amp 20 space in second floor for $1,185.50


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## bd06 (Mar 22, 2011)

very true. thanks for the input goldenboy!


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

bd06 said:


> very true. thanks for the input goldenboy!


You're welcome. 

Not bad for an Apprentice, but I've got some business sense. :brows:

I wouldn't mind getting into Estimating eventually.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

A lot depends on your geoghaphical location, the type of material you propose to use as well as your methods, An Aluminum SE service with a Homeline or Murray panel for instance would be the low running bid and can sell for about $1350, move up tp conduit, QO and sizzle and it can go for around $2500


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## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Services with SE cable, I get $1,800.00 for 100-amp, 200-amp between $2,500.00 and $3,000.00.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

It really depends on where you live more than anything. My rates for 100 amps are anywhere between $1600-$2400 (average depending on many variables including who think I am bidding against, some people are just stupid low these days.) If the rates in your area are lower though you might need to adjust. One thing I would do; call your competition, I prefer the big ads in the yellowbook, and have them give you estimates on a standard service. Don't let them know who you are and you will get local prices real fast. I've had a couple of contractors do that to me already, of course I found out afterwards.


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## bd06 (Mar 22, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your input. It has been a great help and i appreciate it.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

electrictim510 said:


> It really depends on where you live more than anything. My rates for 100 amps are anywhere between $1600-$2400 (average depending on many variables including who think I am bidding against, some people are just stupid low these days.) If the rates in your area are lower though you might need to adjust. One thing I would do; call your competition, I prefer the big ads in the yellowbook, and have them give you estimates on a standard service. Don't let them know who you are and you will get local prices real fast. I've had a couple of contractors do that to me already, of course I found out afterwards.


What makes you think they know what they're doing?


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

electrictim510 said:


> It really depends on where you live more than anything. My rates for 100 amps are anywhere between $1600-$2400 (average depending on many variables including who think I am bidding against, some people are just stupid low these days.) If the rates in your area are lower though you might need to adjust. One thing I would do; call your competition, I prefer the big ads in the yellowbook, and have them give you estimates on a standard service. Don't let them know who you are and you will get local prices real fast. I've had a couple of contractors do that to me already, of course I found out afterwards.


 Lady called the other day said she wanted her service changed out, i asked why, are the breakers tripping or are you planning to add more ckts, no she said just wanted it changed for no apparent reason other than it was 20 years old? I told her, no reason to change anything other than new bkrs.....I told her why don't we pull the perfectly good engine out of your car and replace it with a new one .....makes no sense at all...She could not afford $1600.00 for the job any way...:no:I told her why not just buy all new pushmatic bkrs and be done with it?Panel ckecked out to be good shape:thumbup:


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> What makes you think they know what they're doing?


What do you mean? I don't understand what part of the post you are referring to. If you are referring to the people coming out; It doesn't matter because you won't be asking just one or two people, ask at least 4.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

ce2two said:


> Lady called the other day said she wanted her service changed out, i asked why, are the breakers tripping or are you planning to add more ckts, no she said just wanted it changed for no apparent reason other than it was 20 years old? I told her, no reason to change anything other than new bkrs.....I told her why don't we pull the perfectly good engine out of your car and replace it with a new one .....makes no sense at all...She could not afford $1600.00 for the job any way...:no:I told her why not just buy all new pushmatic bkrs and be done with it?Panel ckecked out to be good shape:thumbup:


I've grounded panels where the customer could not afford to upgrade but were concerned about grounding. Replacing the panel is not always necessary, but I don't recondition FPE/Zinsco panels, they get replaced.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

electrictim510 said:


> I've grounded panels where the customer could not afford to upgrade but were concerned about grounding. Replacing the panel is not always necessary, but I don't recondition FPE/Zinsco panels, they get replaced.


 Both bkrs you mentioned are fire starters ,they both suck......I concure? Replacing is a must?:thumbup:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

electrictim510 said:


> What do you mean? I don't understand what part of the post you are referring to. If you are referring to the people coming out; It doesn't matter because you won't be asking just one or two people, ask at least 4.


What I mean is, by calling other EC's in your area and checking their prices, you have no idea if they know what they're doing or not. If they know how to cover their overhead, mark up their materials, etc. That's why it's a bad idea. One of the guys you call might have health insurance through his wife and doesn't have that in his overhead. His price might be lower because of it. You, on the other hand have to buy your own (like I do) and therefore have to include that in any price for anything so you don't come up short at the end of the year. 


My bigger point is that you're not selling commodities, you're selling service. We are not Walmart or any other chain store selling the same **** at a different store for roughly the same price. We sell service, not bubble gum and home theaters.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

Well, years in service should tell you if someone is pricing ridiculous compared to the rest of your competition. By calling more than just a couple guys you get a good basis to go by for the general price range that you are competing against. I go yellow page ads because these are the main ones I see myself competing against. Over time I will see what others are charging and adjust for the situation. There is a certain amount of common sense and experience that you have to take into consideration or proce range for services is the last thing you need to worry about. I posted assuming we all have at least that. :thumbsup:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

bd06 said:


> I recently went into business for myself. I spent 5 years doing commercial/industrial electric before jumping into the residential side of things. I was wondering what most of you guys are charging for service upgrades and panel changes? Any input is greatly appreciated! I never had any experience in the estimating side of things and i just dont want to screw myself out of money by bidding too high or too low.



Never mind. I was gonna add something. But..

Oh well.

I just throw out numbers (High) and hope they like me. Then i get them.

If you try to compete with the guys out there,,,,, (admit it folks..)

You'll be paying the customer,For the privilege to work for them.

Thats BS ! But very common.

Plumbers don't have that problem.


Wake up cut throat sparkies !!!!!!!!!!!


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

leland said:


> Never mind. I was gonna add something. But..
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> ...


I do agree with this to a point, because sometimes price is not an issue. A good amount of the time though price is 90% of the reason you get the job especially when you are bidding against 3-4 other contractors. If I am giving a price where there are no competing bids I give the price I think the job is worth rather than competing against the local jerk offs and I do a good amount better with these customers and it gives me more time with the customer to do an over the top job and make more recommendations.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

electrictim510 said:


> What do you mean? I don't understand what part of the post you are referring to. If you are referring to the people coming out; It doesn't matter because you won't be asking just one or two people, ask at least 4.


Follow the Lemmings over the cliff, you're saying?


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Follow the Lemmings over the cliff, you're saying?


When it comes to competitive bidding you have to know your competitions prices there is no way around it. I am not saying to always compete on their level but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I usually try not to undercut the low guys but rather come within the realistic range of the competition and then build as much confidence as I can in the customers head that me, or my job will be the better bet.


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## sparky723 (Jul 22, 2008)

electrictim510 said:


> .... but I don't recondition FPE/Zinsco panels, they get replaced.


AMEN, BROTHER!!!

Went to a house the other day a GC friend needed some work done...Got there and found 2 FPE panels in the house side by side. One of the dead fronts was half empty where breakers used to be and there was elec. tape over the openings.
The GC told me that the electrician had waited to wait a couple of weeks to get the right FPE breaker to fit in a certain spot because " they are expensive and hard to find" 
YOU THINK!!??
Anyway, I IMMEDIATELY told him that the service would need to be upgraded. The GC was there to do a MAJOR remodel on this house already and when I told him about the upgrade (and my estimate) , he said "UHHH..I dont know if she'll go for that." She was home, so he went and told her. She came to the panel where I was and after explaining the dangers and etc...., She threw her hands up and said "No, not right now. I'll buy smoke alarms". What kind of B.S. is that? I actually low-balled myself to help her out and she STILL didnt like the price.
Funny how people will spend $50K + on a remodel to a house they paid nearly $150K for and wont spend $2K on an upgrade.
After she said that, I was pi**ed. I was thinking "LET IT BURN"!!!
UGH!! some people have no clue where their priorities are. My wife knows her and said she justs wants the house to be "pretty" for entertaining. I said hard to entertain anyone in a pile of ashes. :laughing:


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

sparky723 said:


> AMEN, BROTHER!!!
> 
> Went to a house the other day a GC friend needed some work done...Got there and found 2 FPE panels in the house side by side. One of the dead fronts was half empty where breakers used to be and there was elec. tape over the openings.
> The GC told me that the electrician had waited to wait a couple of weeks to get the right FPE breaker to fit in a certain spot because " they are expensive and hard to find"
> ...


Should sell her on more lighting then. lol It's sad man I know. When it comes to panels most people just want it to work, they have the 'it's been okay all these years, I'm sure it will last a whole lot more' attitude. I feel like saying "Yah? My grandfather is 90 something years old, think he will function the same in another 90?"


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I went to look at one yesterday. It was a small commercial store front in a century-old building. The guy wanted over 30 recessed, 18-24 track head lights on 4-6 tracks, a few new under cabinet lights too. It was a kitchen design store. The guy had a 16-circuit 100 amp MB panel, (2) old federal 4-circuit Edison based panels, and a little 6 circuit panel way in the back. I said before I consider doing anything here this main panel has to be upgraded. It's like he thought I was trying to jive him something. I also noticed a bit of carpentry work had been started and no permit in the window was visible. I practically left skid marks getting out of there. No way would I work for someone ever again that only wanted what they wanted to do. That'd be like telling my accountant how to prepare my business taxes. ****ing idiot this guy was.


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

electrictim510 said:


> I've grounded panels where the customer could not afford to upgrade but were concerned about grounding. Replacing the panel is not always necessary, but I don't recondition FPE/Zinsco panels, they get replaced.


A few weeks ago I met with a GC about a small remodel a little over 700sq ft room addition. The original house was less than 1000sq ft with a 60amp Zinsco panel feeding the house with three or four 15 and 20 amp breakers. This guy wanted to run a subpanel off of the old Zinsco to the new room addition. I looked at it the service wires they were #6 or #8 tw. I told the GC you might as well get it over with now. Get a panel upgrade to 100 amps. Priced it at $1300 haven't heard from him since.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

cthermond said:


> A few weeks ago I met with a GC about a small remodel a little over 700sq ft room addition. The original house was less than 1000sq ft with a 60amp Zinsco panel feeding the house with three or four 15 and 20 amp breakers. This guy wanted to run a subpanel off of the old Zinsco to the new room addition. I looked at it the service wires they were #6 or #8 tw. I told the GC you might as well get it over with now. Get a panel upgrade to 100 amps. Priced it at $1300 haven't heard from him since.


Did you try to educate him on the importance of upgrading to 100 amps? Because some people will interview electricians until they find the one that'll do whatever they want you to do. Being in that position isn't beneficial to the EC.


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

Magnettica said:


> Did you try to educate him on the importance of upgrading to 100 amps? Because some people will interview electricians until they find the one that'll do whatever they want you to do. Being in that position isn't beneficial to the EC.


Yes I did to some degree. This GC was so cheap that he had his helper dig all the footings for the 700 sq ft addition by hand. He also asked if he and his helper could run the wire and I do the layout and terminations. I gave him what I thought was a fairly low price for the panel change and wire layout and terminations and finish $2500.00, but he must have got someone cheaper. That's how it is out here. Everybody wants bottom basement prices.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

cthermond said:


> Yes I did to some degree. This GC was so cheap that he had his helper dig all the footings for the 700 sq ft addition by hand. He also asked if he and his helper could run the wire and I do the layout and terminations. I gave him what I thought was a fairly low price for the panel change and wire layout and terminations and finish $2500.00, but he must have got someone cheaper. That's how it is out here. Everybody wants bottom basement prices.


What part of Cali?


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

sparky723 said:


> AMEN, BROTHER!!!
> 
> Went to a house the other day a GC friend needed some work done...Got there and found 2 FPE panels in the house side by side. One of the dead fronts was half empty where breakers used to be and there was elec. tape over the openings.
> The GC told me that the electrician had waited to wait a couple of weeks to get the right FPE breaker to fit in a certain spot because " they are expensive and hard to find"
> ...


I Just don't know how many resdentail areas I have ran into most will tell me the same story don't have much money left to any service upgrading etc the worst is the kitchen remodelers they will leave nothing for electrical update in the kitchen ditto with plumming stuff.

One house the plummer was working on the pipes and he spotted something funny with cables and he called me in after he presurated the GC to call in the electrician and sure engouh it was a bunch of SO cords  so end up put in new service plus redo the kitchen with hidden bonus the light dimming issue was disappair after I fix up the place.

Merci,
Marc


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

electrictim510 said:


> What part of Cali?


North San Diego County, Oceanside. The economy is bad especially in the building trades, but you can't beat the weather!


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Wow, a thread on pricing and no-one posted that ridiculous list of overhead costs on which to base your price upon.

Who'da thunk.

Maybe they got smart and figured out how to control overhead rather than posting a list of nonsense.


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## electrictim510 (Sep 9, 2008)

cthermond said:


> North San Diego County, Oceanside. The economy is bad especially in the building trades, but you can't beat the weather!


I worked out there for a couple of years when I lived in Carlsbad. It wasn't too bad then but it was around 2004 when the economy was doing great. I think it has more to do with the economy of the country as a whole than it does with the area you're in though. I love the whole San Diego region but the furthest I have worked I think was just north of Oceanside and I forgot the name of the area.


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## cthermond (Feb 10, 2011)

electrictim510 said:


> I worked out there for a couple of years when I lived in Carlsbad. It wasn't too bad then but it was around 2004 when the economy was doing great. I think it has more to do with the economy of the country as a whole than it does with the area you're in though. I love the whole San Diego region but the furthest I have worked I think was just north of Oceanside and I forgot the name of the area.


Camp Pendleton is just north of Oceanside, then San Clemente in Orange County is the next city. I understand what you mean by knowing what the competition is bidding. I've got a pretty good idea of what a competitive rate is out here from contractor friends of mine whov'e been in the business for years. The city of San Diego went from issuing 18,000 building permitts in 2006 to only 4000 permitts last year. The unemployment rate among construction workers is close to 50%. But life goes on. I'm adjusting to the realities,and am taking a course in lighting controls. The state has a CALCTP certification program, which is going to be a qualification for a state program for lighting controls systems. It may help.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

cthermond said:


> Camp Pendleton is just north of Oceanside, then San Clemente in Orange County is the next city. I understand what you mean by knowing what the competition is bidding. I've got a pretty good idea of what a competitive rate is out here from contractor friends of mine whov'e been in the business for years. The city of San Diego went from issuing 18,000 building permitts in 2006 to only 4000 permitts last year. The unemployment rate among construction workers is close to 50%. But life goes on. I'm adjusting to the realities,and am taking a course in lighting controls. The state has a CALCTP certification program, which is going to be a qualification for a state program for lighting controls systems. It may help.


Education is the key to success. 

That is some stat for construction permits in souther California.


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