# Lighting installations in Residential



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

When I was a little electrician I always moonlighted delivering pizza when I needed extra money. If you don't know basic stuff like your asking you shouldn't be working on your own. You'll F something up.


----------



## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Hello, I'm a first year apprentice for commericial electrical and never done residential. I have a few questions because I wanted to earn some extra cash doing some side work. Just putting up lightings on a home. In commercial when I put up track lights I ran all threads to a unistrut to support the track with toggle bolt. What do you use to support the tracklight on residential if all they have is dry walls and wood stud on the ceiling? Do you just use wood screws onto the stud? Also, can lights install on a two story building on the bottom floor ceiling. Is there much access between the first flood ceiling and 2nd floor's floor?


 
Your asking for trouble. Do a search on "side jobs" and apprentice doing unsupervised work. This a site for professional electricians and electricalcontraactors. You are asking for help in taking work from these professionals.


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Oh, my bad. I didn't know that. Sorry, pretend I didn't ask the question then. I'll come back to this site in 4 years then, after I pass my journeyman exam. See yah in four years.


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

But, I do want to add. If I run a #14 or a #12 NM (Romex) from a Luminaire with straps properly secured from the device to the panel and then land the Ungrounded wire to the breaker, the grounded wire to the Neutral bar and the grounding wire to the ground bar, with the breaker on the off position. Using my tape measure and measure both ends of the track light then screw some 1 1/2" wood screws to the stud to secure the track. And if the work is less than $500 which my state allows us to work on. Is there a problem? This is a forum and I'm asking questions and giving answer, if yah dont' like it, not a problem...


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

By the way, if I'm using a 4 Awg or larger, I'll be sure to tape the B phase with Red phase tape. I'll make sure I'll go the NEC 2008 310.16 and do my deration on ampacity.


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Anyways, see yah in four years...


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> And if the work is less than $500 which my state allows us to work on. Is there a problem? This is a forum and I'm asking questions and giving answer, if yah dont' like it, not a problem...


Make sure you have the proper business licenses, and pay your fair share of taxes on that less than $500 worth of work. AND get an inspection, which is tough when you don't have a C10, ya little sh1t.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

I think someone needs a time out!

And can come back when their attitude improves and are willing to speak nicely,listen and learn.


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

It might take you 15 years to learn how to put up a luminaire. It's 2012, we don't know something we can always go online and keep asking, keep looking, eventually someone will tell me. Your brain is like them old incandescent light bulb, requires alot of watts in and not providing enough lumens. We use LED these days, we get way more lumens and way less wattage than you old farts. Induction lights, yeah I said it. You know what it is? This little sh1t is going to take the jobs from you and going to take you out of business because eventhough we don't work as hard as you, we work smarter than you. Why work harder when you can work smarter...


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

almost sounds like a 2nd yr apprentice (they know _everything_)

when you burn someone's house down and go to jail, be sure to come back and say hi (from the jailhouse computer). 


(in before the lock -snap !)


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

I started last year in June, many that goes drinking or smoking after work. I go to home depot, buy myself a $20 bundles of pipe and I been the crap out of it in the garage. I pick up materials and scraps and keep practicing in the garage. I go online and I read Mike Holts, I read Tom Henry because the the 4 to 10 year plan for apprentice is for dummies. Why stuck for 4 years of low paying when you can work hard for the next two year on the job and after work and keep practice and then prove to your employer you know more and deserve higher pay. If that don't work at least there's side jobs you can do..


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

There's stuff you have to learn and taught by others, there's stuff you can look at the exisiting stuff and learn from it and come up with a better solution.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> I started last year in June, many that goes drinking or smoking after work. I go to home depot, buy myself a $20 bundles of pipe and I been the crap out of it in the garage. I pick up materials and scraps and keep practicing in the garage. I go online and I read Mike Holts, I read Tom Henry because the the 4 to 10 year plan for apprentice is for dummies. Why stuck for 4 years of low paying when you can work hard for the next two year on the job and after work and keep practice and then prove to your employer you know more and deserve higher pay. If that don't work at least there's side jobs you can do..



You sound like a smart kid, but just be patient with the side work. There really is a phase in the beginning of your career where over confidence can get you into trouble.


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Someone asked me to put up panels, I turned them down. I don't feel confident about panels yet and refer them to this electrician I know. Putting up lights is a piece of cake and I know I can handle it. I just want to see how others would do it. I already come up with of plan on how I'm going to attack this job. I just come on here to see and use the rest of yah brains and see how many different options I have. Electricity works when point A and B has continuity. I'm just trying to make it the safest and most efficient way. When it's efficient I save time and money... Thanks for the advice. See you in 4 years, maybe 3 1/2


----------



## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Anyone who does any work on a persons property without having insurance is a moron. Yes I'm calling you a moron. :thumbsup:


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Bulldog1 said:


> Anyone who does any work on a persons property without having insurance is a moron. Yes I'm calling you a moron. :thumbsup:


anyone with assets is a moron. In CA it legal to have a business without any insurance at all. Sad but true.


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

I think my meter worth the most then my 1" bender. =)


----------



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Ninjazx916r said:


> Someone asked me to put up panels, I turned them down. I don't feel confident about panels yet and refer them to this electrician I know. Putting up lights is a piece of cake and I know I can handle it.


So...... Why did you come here and ask HOW to do it? Why did you ask how much space is between floors? 

Any success you might have I would say would be because of luck alone. Remember... luck never gives, it only lends.


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Ninjazx916r said:


> I think my meter worth the most then my 1" bender. =)


 I M O, You should grow up first. Maybe learn English too!


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Ninja, I think the main point is just 'cause you are working as an electrician does NOT mean you ARE an electrician. Having less than one year you should NOT be doing side work, no matter how trivial the job. Period, end of story. 

Get some experience, learn more of the trade, THEN do side work.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> You sound like a smart kid, but just be patient with the side work. There really is a phase in the beginning of your career where over confidence can get you into trouble.



Nah, Smart kids get a job and bend/practice/wreck the bosses conduit.
Ya see,we don't go and buy VFDs' and wreck them just to learn,on our own dime any way.:whistling2:


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyJRXvPNRo


----------



## Stab&Shoot (Aug 23, 2011)

Ninja don't let these guys discourage you too much. Now I'm NOT saying go do side jobs. I do like your enthusiasm though and wish I had more young guys like you instead of ones that been working as an apprentice for a year and have never cracked a code book in their off time. However a small project in somenes home can instantly turn into a large problem. The guys here (myself included) believe that work of this nature should only be performed by individuals that can be held legally liable for any hazards that may exist or arise during the course of the job. -no matter the size. That said-I'd give a guy like you a job and I wouldn't mind taking a few extra minutes explaining key points to someone that has your 'want to learn' attitude.


----------



## Bulldog1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Bkessler said:


> anyone with assets is a moron. In CA it legal to have a business without any insurance at all. Sad but true.


No what I said is correct. Anyone who does work without insurance is a moron. I don't care if it is legal to do.


----------



## National Electrical (Jan 7, 2012)

I spent the minimal of 8 years of learning, 3 tests and a lot of saving to start my own business. I will be damn if I'm going to give that information out for free. As should anyone on here that is in business.

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

It's funny how you guys judge someone by the amount of time someone is in the trade. I have met a Journeyman that's been doing the trade for four years and he's a very good pipe bender but that is all he knows. He don't know the phase color, brown, orange, yellow, grey (high volt). Black, Red, Blue, white (low voltage) green with yellow stripe (isolated ground), etc. I taught him we need to run two grounds in a pipe if it's isolated receps. Anyways, I can dig you 36" deep place 5" schedule 40 from the PG&E transformer pad to the switch gear and fill it up with sand and then use the whacker and whack you the dirt, run 1" pvc 24" deep for parking lot lighting, build racks to support your conduit every 10' and 3' from every box, etc. I can use MC cables and zip ties and make all these lightings nice and neat, I can put up recep boxes 18" to center and switches 48" to center for you. Funny how you guys toss me that 5 years, 10 years and 20 plus years of electrical experience and then see these guys do crapping bends or more than 4 90 degree bends without putting a box. I see many crappy work out there done by the so call professionals, while the one year apprentice can do neater job and quicker. Lazy journeyman that think they are good just because they been in the trade longer who cannot clean up the extra copper they cut off or the knockouts they punched.... Eventhough I am new, I can pour concrete, paint, built frames for sonotubes better than some of the journeyman. Flipping pages in the NEC from Article 200 to 400 shows you the code and there's not place in the code shows that you must do this or do that. All I see is as long as I met the code and follow the blueprint then let the fire marshall and inspector I am good to go. But, back to the point, I respect those that have there own business of not sharing because you're correct, I am taking business from you but unless you live like where I am. I am sure you are not willing to fly 300 miles from where you are to put up two lights and not charge them traveling fees. I have met electricians that came from other states and are willing to share their knowledge, maybe you're not one of them but there are some out there that are willing to share and I am one of those that are willing to share with others because electrical is a dangerous thing. Do it when you know it's safe and don't do it if you're not sure. I'm doing this because I know it's safe for me.


----------



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Chased another future moderator away.


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Most of my foreman and journeyman don't even know load calculations, or what Delta to Wye connection in transformer are. All they know is connect H1 to X1 and H2 to X2 or in motors what the T1 is. They cannot read no ladder diagram or what the symbols meant. They don't know why it's 208V or why 277V is. 120 x 1.732 is 208V because we using 3 phase. 480V divided by 1.732 gives you 277V........ With that said, Everything is the same in electrical.... Protection of the wire will stop electrical fire. If you put safety in mind first, anything is possible. I have a board in my garage that I am working on with so much fuses in it because I am trying to design someone of my own that hopefully one day I can sell it to homeowners because I believe everyone that lives in a house can control their tvs, lights. Not just millionaires or movies stars...

What bothers me the most is them journeyman that think they know about solar but they dont even know why we wire 10 panels together and then wire the rest in parallel... Voltage goes up or Amperes goes up..


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

I have a new favorite troll. :thumbup: Keep bringing the heat!


----------



## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Ninjazx916r said:


> It's funny how you guys judge someone by the amount of time someone is in the trade. I have met a Journeyman that's been doing the trade for four years and he's a very good pipe bender but that is all he knows. He don't know the phase color, brown, orange, yellow, grey (high volt). Black, Red, Blue, white (low voltage) green with yellow stripe (isolated ground), etc. I taught him we need to run two grounds in a pipe if it's isolated receps. Anyways, I can dig you 36" deep place 5" schedule 40 from the PG&E transformer pad to the switch gear and fill it up with sand and then use the whacker and whack you the dirt, run 1" pvc 24" deep for parking lot lighting, build racks to support your conduit every 10' and 3' from every box, etc. I can use MC cables and zip ties and make all these lightings nice and neat, I can put up recep boxes 18" to center and switches 48" to center for you. Funny how you guys toss me that 5 years, 10 years and 20 plus years of electrical experience and then see these guys do crapping bends or more than 4 90 degree bends without putting a box. I see many crappy work out there done by the so call professionals, while the one year apprentice can do neater job and quicker. Lazy journeyman that think they are good just because they been in the trade longer who cannot clean up the extra copper they cut off or the knockouts they punched.... Eventhough I am new, I can pour concrete, paint, built frames for sonotubes better than some of the journeyman. Flipping pages in the NEC from Article 200 to 400 shows you the code and there's not place in the code shows that you must do this or do that. All I see is as long as I met the code and follow the blueprint then let the fire marshall and inspector I am good to go. But, back to the point, I respect those that have there own business of not sharing because you're correct, I am taking business from you but unless you live like where I am. I am sure you are not willing to fly 300 miles from where you are to put up two lights and not charge them traveling fees. I have met electricians that came from other states and are willing to share their knowledge, maybe you're not one of them but there are some out there that are willing to share and I am one of those that are willing to share with others because electrical is a dangerous thing. Do it when you know it's safe and don't do it if you're not sure. I'm doing this because I know it's safe for me.


Everything you have expressed in your work duties here, simply state your a first year apprentice doing hump work. 
Answer this question one question and I'll help you. 

What type housing is required for your install of high hats????

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

Oh please, I get more out from someone at Home Depot than from you guys. The works been done and no problem so far. So much for electrical forum


----------



## Ninjazx916r (Apr 1, 2011)

For the record, the past few months, I'm not an apprentice. You said it wrong. To them I'm a F**king apprentice...


----------



## Salvatoreg02 (Feb 26, 2011)

Ninjazx916r said:


> For the record, the past few months, I'm not an apprentice. You said it wrong. To them I'm a F**king apprentice...


Will you be willing to answer my question. Instead of making tough guy responses. You cant get mad at us for your lack of knowledge so early on in your career. Like I said I will be willing to help you provided you answer my question!!!

Sent from my iPhone using ET Forum


----------



## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

:blink::no::laughing:


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Is this Kaboler?


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> It's funny how you guys judge someone by the amount of time someone is in the trade.


Absolutely!
I have known men with ten years who don't know jack. They did one thing for ten years and that's all they know. 
I also know ten year guys running successful businesses with enough knowledge for every one of their employees.

That said, I have known a LOT of first year guys. Most THINK they know more than they actually do. NONE of them do!

Point is, you can sit around for ten years and not learn much. 
You CANNOT learn enough in less than a year to do successful and safe work on your own. 





Ninjazx916r said:


> Oh please, I get more out from someone at Home Depot than from you guys.


Then stick you getting your advice from them. They probably know more than you. :whistling2:
You simply writing that shows tour ignorance.




Ninjazx916r said:


> The works been done and no problem so far.


Classic DIY/handyman line for hack work. :thumbsup:


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> Is this Kaboler?


 
I was wondering the same thing. He's like an angry, dumbed down K-man. Kaboler from the hills:laughing:


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Ninjazx916r said:


> It's funny how you guys judge someone by the amount of time someone is in the trade. I have met a Journeyman that's been doing the trade for four years and he's a very good pipe bender but that is all he knows. He don't know the phase color, brown, orange, yellow, grey (high volt). Black, Red, Blue, white (low voltage) green with yellow stripe (isolated ground), etc. I taught him we need to run two grounds in a pipe if it's isolated receps. Anyways, I can dig you 36" deep place 5" schedule 40 from the PG&E transformer pad to the switch gear and fill it up with sand and then use the whacker and whack you the dirt, run 1" pvc 24" deep for parking lot lighting, build racks to support your conduit every 10' and 3' from every box, etc. I can use MC cables and zip ties and make all these lightings nice and neat, I can put up recep boxes 18" to center and switches 48" to center for you. Funny how you guys toss me that 5 years, 10 years and 20 plus years of electrical experience and then see these guys do crapping bends or more than 4 90 degree bends without putting a box. I see many crappy work out there done by the so call professionals, while the one year apprentice can do neater job and quicker. Lazy journeyman that think they are good just because they been in the trade longer who cannot clean up the extra copper they cut off or the knockouts they punched.... Eventhough I am new, I can pour concrete, paint, built frames for sonotubes better than some of the journeyman. Flipping pages in the NEC from Article 200 to 400 shows you the code and there's not place in the code shows that you must do this or do that. All I see is as long as I met the code and follow the blueprint then let the fire marshall and inspector I am good to go. But, back to the point, I respect those that have there own business of not sharing because you're correct, I am taking business from you but unless you live like where I am. I am sure you are not willing to fly 300 miles from where you are to put up two lights and not charge them traveling fees. I have met electricians that came from other states and are willing to share their knowledge, maybe you're not one of them but there are some out there that are willing to share and I am one of those that are willing to share with others because electrical is a dangerous thing. Do it when you know it's safe and don't do it if you're not sure. I'm doing this because I know it's safe for me.




Right now. I'm judging by this post.
You apparently spent too much time in the shop class,and not enough in the academics portion.

Who the heck can read that? It will cause a headache or maybe a seizure.


----------



## rdr (Oct 25, 2009)

stuiec said:


> I was wondering the same thing. He's like an angry, dumbed down K-man. Kaboler from the hills:laughing:


Tell him, "You take your jug, your banjo, and your wheelbarrow back to the hills, and learn some damn English."


----------



## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

rdr said:


> Tell him, "You take your jug, your banjo, and your wheelbarrow back to the hills, and learn some damn English."


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

just spit up some coke:laughing:


----------



## volleyball (Sep 14, 2011)

You guys were a bit hard on Ninja, not that he didn't deserve it. We know a person with a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, a person with more is even more so. This guy is prime for creating a problem. Not that he means too. 
I don't see giving away knowledge to a person far away not to compete is a bad thing. And I don't think that he is taking money from anyone, the job would never get done by a pro. If a first year doesn't do it, a no year probably will.
Ninja touts reading a practicing but never mentions spending money on even 1 homeowner residential book that would have quickly answered his question, if he has good comprehension skills.


----------



## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

do you know in NY, no schooling is required to become licensed. you need 7 years experience, and then take the test.

So think about how many guys have no practical theory behind them. just installion experience.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

No schooling is required in Minnesota for a lic, only 8000 hrs of work experience.


----------

