# NM cable in EMT outside?



## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Take a look a this section:

334.12 Uses Not Permitted.
(B) Types NM and NMS. Types NM and NMS cables shall not be used under the following conditions or in the following locations: 
(4) In wet or damp locations

Also take a look at this:

300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade.
Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C).

300.9 is new to the 2008 NEC.

Chris


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

raider1 said:


> Also take a look at this:
> 
> 300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade.
> Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C).
> ...


Finally! A 2008 change I agree with. :thumbsup:


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Finally! A 2008 change I agree with. :thumbsup:


I agree as well. The 2005 alluded to this being a violation but really didn't come right out and say it. 

Chris


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## Xknob&Tube (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't like it because if the EMT with compression fittings is installed properly it should be dry inside, right? It also makes for another set of joints which is never as good of an installation.


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## Stickboy1375 (Jul 23, 2007)

Xknob&Tube said:


> I don't like it because if the EMT with compression fittings is installed properly it should be dry inside, right? It also makes for another set of joints which is never as good of an installation.



no... it wont be.


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Xknob&Tube said:


> I don't like it because if the EMT with compression fittings is installed properly it should be dry inside, right? It also makes for another set of joints which is never as good of an installation.


 
When have you seen a length of conduit outside that is really dry inside? The tell tale sign it has had water in it is that white powder and scale inside. I agree this is a change that was needed.


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## Xknob&Tube (Jul 30, 2008)

Yesterday, actually. I think it depends on the part of the country you're in. Here in Colorado, the annual rainfall is about 12 inches (high desert), I've never experienced water in an above ground conduit but I have seen signs of it. Here, the humidity averages about 15% so it dries out pretty fast.
Also, what type of wires are in Romex? It doesn't say on the wires or the jacket?


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## randomkiller (Sep 28, 2007)

Xknob&Tube said:


> Yesterday, actually. I think it depends on the part of the country you're in. Here in Colorado, the annual rainfall is about 12 inches (high desert), I've never experienced water in an above ground conduit but I have seen signs of it. Here, the humidity averages about 15% so it dries out pretty fast.
> Also, what type of wires are in Romex? It doesn't say on the wires or the jacket?


Because the wires on thier own are not rated to be used that way. They are only rated as a unit (cable form).


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

If it's under an eave, wouldn't it be a damp location?


Where does damp stop and wet begin?





> Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location


Is a gutter a raceway?


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## Xknob&Tube (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't know but the other code I don't care for is requiring "in-use" covers for all outdoor receptacles even for covered patios where it's just not necessary.


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

220/221 said:


> If it's under an eave, wouldn't it be a damp location?
> 
> 
> Where does damp stop and wet begin?


Basically the deliniation between a wet location and a dry location outdoors would be the exposure to weather.

Here is the definitions of wet and damp locations:

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.




> Is a gutter a raceway?


Yes, here is the definition of a raceway:

Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways, cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways,* wireways*, and busways.

Chris


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

Xknob&Tube said:


> I don't know but the other code I don't care for is requiring "in-use" covers for all outdoor receptacles even for covered patios where it's just not necessary.


406.8(B)(1) only applys to receptacles installed in a wet location. Receptacles installed under covered patios, depending on where they are located might be in a damp location.

Chris


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

Whoops, wrong spot! Sorry.:whistling2:


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## Skyline Electric (Jul 30, 2008)

Put UF in that EMT.


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