# Cat 5 for speakers?



## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

One of my customers bought a recently remodeled home and while he was showing me the place he pointed out the unfinished whole house audio system.

All the ceiling speakers are installed but there are several blanked off lv brackets that I'm assuming are for the volume controls. All the cat5 and rg6 are run to the basement with some of the cat5 being used for data and the rest I'm assuming are for the speakers. There is also a cat5 roughed out where under cabinet lights would be. Is this a common setup using cat5 for speakers and what do you think the cat5 under the cabinet is for?


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

Maximumbob said:


> One of my customers bought a recently remodeled home and while he was showing me the place he pointed out the unfinished whole house audio system.
> 
> All the ceiling speakers are installed but there are several blanked off lv brackets that I'm assuming are for the volume controls. All the cat5 and rg6 are run to the basement with some of the cat5 being used for data and the rest I'm assuming are for the speakers. There is also a cat5 roughed out where under cabinet lights would be. Is this a common setup using cat5 for speakers and what do you think the cat5 under the cabinet is for?


cat 5 can be used for speakers providing that the load is small enough but I don't recommend it due the limited ampacity of the conductors
the primary reason large cables are used on quality systems is lower resistance and better sound quality
using it for line in line out connections (unamplified signal) is probably the reason it was used.
(i dont have the specs on on the system to give an accurate assessment)

if the cat5 is roughed in it could be for future expansion of data networking as well


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

if they use cat 5 for speaker, hope they parallel the 8x 24ga conductors in 2 pair, that would be about equivalent of 18awg


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

oliquir said:


> if they use cat 5 for speaker, hope they parallel the 8x 24ga conductors in 2 pair, that would be about equivalent of 18awg


exactly

my own system used monster cables for the main 5 (fine strand equivalent to 10 awg) 18 awg for the satellites 
at low volume (never had to turn volume up)its still like being in a orchestra concert auditorium

(yes i like classical as well as good rap) actually any music that is played with skill and good taste:laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I assume you could also twist the pairs together for the undercabinet lighting. It's really cheesy, however, and I would never rough-in that way.


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

Cat 5 at the volume control locations could be for a keypad controlled audio distribution system.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

sounds like a big fail to me


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

We run dedicated speaker wire. 16/2 stranded to speakers and 16/4 to volume controls.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

Maybe the Cat 5 was for amplified speakers but could be used in parallel for 8 ohm speakers, as was pointed out, if loudness is not an issue.

Also, the under-counter lights may be for LV lighting where it could squeak by, depending on length, load, configuration and how the inspector is feeling that day. :laughing:


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

99cents said:


> I assume you could also twist the pairs together for the undercabinet lighting. It's really cheesy, however, and I would never rough-in that way.


There is only 1 cat5 below the upper cabinets by the rear door but it's so high on the splash I didn't think it was for a volume control. Maybe a mistake?

My bad on the description


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## Maximumbob (May 24, 2013)

ElectricJoeNJ said:


> Cat 5 at the volume control locations could be for a keypad controlled audio distribution system.



In this type of system do the speakers get run to the volume control or do they HR to the equipment?


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

Maximumbob said:


> In this type of system do the speakers get run to the volume control or do they HR to the equipment?


They HR to the equipment. The room control is a volume control and source selector.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Maximumbob said:


> In this type of system do the speakers get run to the volume control or do they HR to the equipment?





ElectricJoeNJ said:


> *They HR to the equipment. The room control is a volume control and source selector.*


Odds are that the speakers themselves are (hopefully) run with proper speaker wire. The CAT5's are used for control only which is almost always just data and LV, low current power to the control stations. 

As I mentioned in the 70 Distributed systems thread, telephone wire (and CATx cable is just glorified telephone wire) is NEVER, I repeat, NEVER suitable in any application for speakers!! Especially 4-8 ohm systems where the current is even higher than with 70v systems. 

Possible issues include:



Loss of volume due to resistive losses in the wire;
Loss of amplifier Damping Factor (control of the speaker's motion mainly for low frequencies) which will make for muddy sounding bass;
Possible overdriving of the amplifier to overcome wire losses;
Potentially dangerous heating of the wire itself due to excessive current (especially if individual pairs are not properly paralleled or used.)
It is rare but I have seen undersized speaker wire melt due to the current being drawn to drive the speaker. One instance did result in a minor fire.


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## Tjtono (May 19, 2012)

On-q makes a system that uses cat-5 to volume control from distribution panel. Then goes to speaker wire after the volume control to the speakers.


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

I've seen some audiophiles use multiple cat 5 cables with the outer insulation stripped off and the pairs braided, creating a kind of air core cable, but it wasn't in a wall.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Tjtono said:


> On-q makes a system that uses cat-5 to volume control from distribution panel. Then goes to speaker wire after the volume control to the speakers.


No that system the speaker go to distribution panel. The cat v volume control is low voltage, it does not see the load of the speakers.


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## Tjtono (May 19, 2012)

Volume control is the amp. Newer system


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Tjtono said:


> Volume control is the amp. Newer system


The catv does not see the load of the speakers


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

JW Splicer said:


> I've seen some audiophiles use multiple cat 5 cables with the outer insulation stripped off and the pairs braided, creating a kind of air core cable, but it wasn't in a wall.


Yeah and they are the same morons who believe that a $400+ gold-plated, oxygen free copper content receptacle will result in "increased clarity and definition from your sound system, by lifting the veil of dirty power being delivered by the standard receptacles." :whistling2::laughing::jester:

Now, since ALL audio amplifiers first convert the 120v incoming AC power to DC (in voltages designed to deliver the amp's rated power output) explain how the physics of electricity are somehow changed by that overpriced receptacle.....:blink:


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

mxslick said:


> Yeah and they are the same morons who believe that a $400+ gold-plated, oxygen free copper content receptacle will result in "increased clarity and definition from your sound system, by lifting the veil of dirty power being delivered by the standard receptacles." :whistling2::laughing::jester: Now, since ALL audio amplifiers first convert the 120v incoming AC power to DC (in voltages designed to deliver the amp's rated power output) explain how the physics of electricity are somehow changed by that overpriced receptacle.....:blink:


 but we aren't talking about cryogenically treated rhodium receptacles. It's the performance of Cat 5 as a speaker cable that's in question. I think you'd be surprised if you tried it;-)


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

Tjtono said:


> On-q makes a system that uses cat-5 to volume control from distribution panel. Then goes to speaker wire after the volume control to the speakers.


That is a nice system. 

I put the nutone system in my house when I gutted it. I just wanted low music with an intercom. Still should have gone with the Legrand system, they were out.

Back then when I looked at the Legrand cut sheet, I know it only needed Cat5 to each volume control and then speaker wire from volume control to speakers. They must have been using one pair for power and the other pairs for signal.
Now when I look at the cut sheet, it looks like it needs another 16-2 for the 24v power and the Cat5 for signal. Either way the Cat5 is for audio and is amplified at the volume control.
I look at reviews years ago and everyone seemed happy with the sound and the power. It is also stereo while the Nutone is mono.

Here is the one I am talking about
http://www.legrand.us/onq/audio-video/audio-distribution/multi-room-audio/au7010-wh.aspx#spec


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

Vintage Sounds said:


> but we aren't talking about cryogenically treated rhodium receptacles. It's the performance of Cat 5 as a speaker cable that's in question. I think you'd be surprised if you tried it;-)


The Muzak guy says they use cat5 all the time.


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

It's been a long time since I took a serious look at audio systems but then the speakers/enclosures were the key to success.

Any change?


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## Wpgshocker (Jan 25, 2013)

mxslick said:


> Yeah and they are the same morons who believe that a $400+ gold-plated, oxygen free copper content receptacle will result in "increased clarity and definition from your sound system, by lifting the veil of dirty power being delivered by the standard receptacles." :whistling2::laughing::jester:
> 
> Now, since ALL audio amplifiers first convert the 120v incoming AC power to DC (in voltages designed to deliver the amp's rated power output) explain how the physics of electricity are somehow changed by that overpriced receptacle.....:blink:



Don't forget the gold plated optical cables....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

and 50$ hdmi cables :blink:


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## ElectricJoeNJ (Feb 24, 2011)

oliquir said:


> and 3' 50$ hdmi cables :blink:


 fify


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

oliquir said:


> and 50$ hdmi cables :blink:


I order my chit from PartsExpress. 35' HDMI cable cost less than $50.00.


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## guest (Feb 21, 2009)

Ty Wrapp said:


> The Muzak guy says they use cat5 all the time.


And we all know how high-quality the sound of a Muzak system is...:whistling2::no:


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## JW Splicer (Mar 15, 2014)

mxslick said:


> Yeah and they are the same morons who believe that a $400+ gold-plated, oxygen free copper content receptacle will result in "increased clarity and definition from your sound system, by lifting the veil of dirty power being delivered by the standard receptacles." :whistling2::laughing::jester:
> 
> Now, since ALL audio amplifiers first convert the 120v incoming AC power to DC (in voltages designed to deliver the amp's rated power output) explain how the physics of electricity are somehow changed by that overpriced receptacle.....:blink:


The same guys that buy a 250$ appliance whip for a guitar amplifier!


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