# are clubs within the locals segregating the brothers and sisters



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I'm against the business agents holding court with them.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

yep. looks like its just you.


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

ibew bilaws state that there shall be no organizations within the organization. and that all union busines shall be discussed at regularly scheduled union meetings and not at any other time. each local is the club after all.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

*Troll?*



bperrone said:


> why if we are all brothers and sisters in trade do we have clubs within the local that aeperate us into groups catergorized by sex,race,religion,and heritage? am i the only one that is against this?



Are you a troll?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

don't know what you mean by troll but i am not no matter how you do sir


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bperrone said:


> don't know what you mean by troll but i am not no matter how you do sir


 
If you don't know what a troll is, how do you know you're not one?:001_huh:


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If you don't know what a troll is, how do you know you're not one?:001_huh:


cause i am a human being thats it plain and simple and lets face it troll sounds like it is an insult


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bperrone said:


> cause i am a human being thats it plain and simple and lets face it troll sounds like it is an insult


So does asking if you're ambidextrous.


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

480sparky said:


> So does asking if you're ambidextrous.


well i am ambidextrous but i am not a troll unless by troll he mean a charming good looking strong young italian american man with a hot wife and two beautiful daughters in which case that would be me


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bperrone said:


> cause i am a human being thats it plain and simple and lets face it troll sounds like it is an insult


And that is different than calling people rats how?:laughing:

If you clicked on the link I provided you would learn what a troll is.


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> And that is different than calling people rats how?:laughing:
> 
> If you clicked on the link I provided you would learn what a troll is.


bob i never called anyone a rat unless they deserved it and always to their face


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bperrone said:


> well i am ambidextrous but i am not a troll unless by troll he mean a charming good looking strong young italian american man with a hot wife and two beautiful daughters in which case that would be me


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

i read what a troll is and the answer is no i have just got on this site and i have things on my mind as a union electrician during a difficult era and am expressing these issues in a public forum. i am doing this under my real name i am only searching for the views of others. i see many down falls in the system from a young mans point of view and to be quite honest am afraid of what the future holds. i take my trade and work very seriously despite what many people may feel about guys from the hall or all union electricians i take great pride in my work and am always open to learning from others and not afraid of working hard. guess i am sending out the wrong vibes


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

480sparky said:


>


thats funny i like that but if you knew me you would know its not bs but still very funny.


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

bob are you a non union contractor, worker or a union electrician?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bperrone said:


> bob i never called anyone a rat unless they deserved it and always to their face



And just what does one have to do to deserve being called a Rat?


See here is the thing, I find almost 100% of the time if I or anyone disagrees about union actions union members will instantly start making personal attacks instead of trying to make an intelligent well thought out reply.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bperrone said:


> bob are you a non union contractor, worker or a union electrician?



I have always been an hourly worker.

I have never wanted to be a union member.

I have had opportunities to join the union and turned them down.

To each their own but the union is not for me, I disagree far to much with the unions typical tactics.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> And just what does one have to do to deserve being called a Rat?
> 
> 
> See here is the thing, I find almost 100% of the time if I or anyone disagrees about union actions union members will instantly start making personal attacks instead of trying to make an intelligent well thought out reply.


yep......:thumbup:


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

a rat is someone who tells on someone to get themselves out of trouble or make themselves shine. as far as personal attacks i am not one to start that kind of stuff but no one gonna come at me sideways and not receive a responce that is personal. you can look at everything i ever said on this forum and see that clearly i was personally attacked by one guy and came back at him then you personally attacked my character as well and i came at you i dont dislike either of you gentlemen and am more than willing to have a debate on any topic that i have knownledge on without getting personal however take it ther with me and i get defensive it is in my nature. i apologize if i offended you in anyway sir that was not my intent. once again check back all my messages and you will see none of it was personal until it was taken there with me. my opion on non union electrician is just that my opion if you or anyone else took my opion as a personal attack you are mistaken. after all i am just another unemployed union electrician trying to support my wife and two children nothing more and nothing less.


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

just a question why are nonunion guys in a union public forum anyway i mean it is open to everyone but doesnt that seem to be what you refer to as a troll


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> yep......:thumbup:


rob you giving thumbs up to exactly what you been doing instead of having an intelligent debate with anyone you personally attack them in some way whether it be their spelling or whatever. but i pity you mam cause you just so clueless you dont know any better.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

" i then moved on as an electrician in the navy upon discharge entered a union apprenticeship. at 31 years old 16 years in the trade those 30 year veterans of nonunion electrical are not even fit to shine my wifes shoes. the fact is they arent even electricians even if they hold a liscense which we all know is just a matter of taking the right course to teach you have to take the test."

That was just copied from post #31 of yours from the other troll thread of yours.

Your just the union troll of the week. Same dance,same song.

I gave the thumbs up to Bob. I just posted proof of you attacking non union guys so GFU !!!!!

If you spent half the effort trying to find a job as you spent on this forum in the past few days trolling the union way maybe your poor wife wouldn't have to carry the load.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> " i then moved on as an electrician in the navy upon discharge entered a union apprenticeship. at 31 years old 16 years in the trade those 30 year veterans of nonunion electrical are not even fit to shine my wifes shoes. the fact is they arent even electricians even if they hold a liscense which we all know is just a matter of taking the right course to teach you have to take the test."
> 
> That was just copied from post #31 of yours from the other troll thread of yours.
> 
> ...


:laughing:. Yeah, it seems like every few weeks that there is a new pro-union troll, trolling .


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bperrone said:


> just a question why are nonunion guys in a union public forum anyway



Oh, is that a problem? Does it bother you?


Just a question, why do unions show up uninvited to some of the jobs I work on and try to stop me from making my living?


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

bperrone said:


> just a question why are nonunion guys in a union public forum anyway i mean it is open to everyone but doesnt that seem to be what you refer to as a troll


three points:
1) this is the union SECTION of a forum (one of 21) which is open to all members but posting within it isn't limited to ONLY union members.
2) those with previously established views in opposition to unions should probably just find other places to post within the 20 OTHER sections of the forum (or elsewhere).
3) those posting (and especially newbies) shouldn't assume that everyone reading isn't already deeply aware of most/all of the pros and cons and conflicts/benefits nor will they be fooled by ever so artful attempts at "dropping" topics to start discussions. (you ain't foolin' nobody)


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

BryanMD said:


> 2) those with previously established views in opposition to unions should probably just find other places to post within the 20 OTHER sections of the forum (or elsewhere).



Nope, I am going to continue posting my views here in this forum until I choose not to or am banned. 

I think unions should stay away from job sites I work at but that ain't gonna happen either.


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## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Nope, I am going to continue posting my views here in this forum until I choose not to or am banned.


there is what we do and then there is how we do it...
which cuts both ways.

we are all grown men (and women) and shouldn't need to have it laid out in more detail than that.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Nope, I am going to continue posting my views here in this forum until I choose not to or am banned.





BryanMD said:


> there is what we do and then there is how we do it...
> which cuts both ways.
> 
> we are all grown men (and women) and shouldn't need to have it laid out in more detail than that.


Bryan, I am missing you're point entirely, you will have to lay it out in more detail.

I will fully admit I enjoy busting chops here, it is retribution for my past encounters with union ****heads. But that does not mean I make stuff up or say things I do not believe.


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## e57 (Jun 5, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Are you a troll?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


Wouldn't the idea of even having a 'Union Forum' invite trolls - a troll magnet... As far as inviting emotion - it's like a David Duke forum - eventually you'll have pro and cons of the Klan discussed... (Very troll like comment - but apt analogy...)

In terms of forums - this is the shallow end of the pool.... But sometimes damned entertaining... A place where the converted preach to each other. And the uninitiated point out the flaws to the convinced... Not too boring...  I find it very funny....

As for the OP - you're asking why there are exclusive clubs in an exclusive club.... It's an oxymoron.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bperrone said:


> ......to support my wife....


She's not hot anymore? :001_huh:



bperrone said:


> ....... and two children ...........


Did they suddenly get ugly? :laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

bperrone said:


> just a question why are nonunion guys in a union public forum anyway i mean it is open to everyone but doesnt that seem to be what you refer to as a troll


This has been a very common, yet convenient, misconception for some.

This is the _"*Union Topics*"_ section. NOT the union _members_ section. There is a very distinct difference. Any member can, and should, post here.

Also, this is NOT a "public" forum. This is a privately owned web site message board, or forum if you like.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Bperrone, I wouldn't waste time responding to Bob.

If there is a forum, he posts there, end of story.

The guy had something like 20,000 posts on Mike Holt's before he was banned under just one of his monikers.

I am pretty sure that posting, and teaching a few nights a week down at the ABC schoolhouse is what makes up Bob's life. You can take all the keystrokes in the world to try and tell Bob your truth, but he just won't listen. A few bad apples in Bob's past ruined whatever chance there was of him giving the Ibew a shot.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> The guy had something like 20,000 posts on Mike Holt's before he was banned under just one of his monikers.


Don't know where you got that information but Bob was never banned at Mike Holt's forum. Marc Shunk was banned there.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Bperrone, I wouldn't waste time responding to Bob.
> 
> If there is a forum, he posts there, end of story.
> 
> ...


 

So, "the truth" is Bob got banned at Mikes?

..................................


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

though i do agree that bob posts way to much to be the productive employee he claims to be


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldman said:


> though i do agree that bob posts way to much to be the productive employee he claims to be


:whistling2:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Peter D said:


> :whistling2:


says the glassed man who is immortalized stuffing his face with corn chips while on the jobsite...


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldman said:


> says the glassed man who is immortalized stuffing his face with corn chips while on the jobsite...


They were potato chips. At least get your information right.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Peter D said:


> They were potato chips. At least get your information right.


surprised they weren't cheese doodles...


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldman said:


> surprised they weren't cheese doodles...


:sleep1:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Peter D said:


> :sleep1:


:detective:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

We (open shop guys) should lay off a bit imho. this section (like it or not) is, in general, for union topics. It's really not any of our business. we can chime in when there is rat bashing but come on, let them do their thing. Too much of the time i see union bashing, and really very little open-shop bashing on this forum. The majority of people posting on this site are not union members.

An electrician is an electrician no matter what shop he works for.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Bperrone, I wouldn't waste time responding to Bob.
> 
> If there is a forum, he posts there, end of story.
> 
> ...



As usual you're information is incorrect, if you're going to try to make a point it helps to get your facts straight.:laughing:


I post on only two forums

The only 'moniker' I have ever used at Holt's has been iwire.

I have never been banned.

I have more than 30,000 posts at Holt's

I don't teach.

And it's been a lot more than a few bad apples.

Other than that you hit the mark.:whistling2:



oldman said:


> says the glassed man who is immortalized stuffing his face with corn chips while on the jobsite...


Thats because I would not let him take a real break.:jester:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> We (open shop guys) should lay off a bit imho. this section (like it or not) is, in general, for union topics. It's really not any of our business.


I thought Speedy Petey already dispelled this nonsense back in post 32.




Speedy Petey said:


> This has been a very common, yet convenient, misconception for some.
> 
> This is the _"*Union Topics*"_ section. NOT the union _members_ section. There is a very distinct difference. Any member can, and should, post here.
> 
> Also, this is NOT a "public" forum. This is a privately owned web site message board, or forum if you like.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I thought Speedy Petey already dispelled this nonsense back in post 32.


Yeah, but it continues. I agree with him so i back up the mod.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

What I don't get is how non-union guys bash us though we are (generally) paid better and have way better bennies. Cant argue that one. Amazes me.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> What I don't get is how non-union guys bash us though we are (generally) paid better and have way better bennies. Cant argue that one. Amazes me.


So for you money justifies anything?

It does not to me.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> What I don't get is how non-union guys bash us though we are (generally) paid better and have way better bennies. Cant argue that one. Amazes me.


By the way, you may well have a higher per hr rate but I doubt highly you have better bennies. 

I get paid vacations, paid holidays, health dental and eye care. Along with company provided training.


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> What I don't get is how non-union guys bash us though we are (generally) paid better and have way better bennies. Cant argue that one. Amazes me.


OK, a couple of points and I am done as I see this turning into yet another for/against thread.

I don't see those who are not supporters bashing "you". They have problems with the union in general. Sure, there are those who consider themselves "the union", but that is their problem if they take it personally. Criticizing an organization is no the same as doing so to an individual. In a way that calling someone a rat or scab IS criticizing an individual. 

Also, I agree that the money does NOT justify everything else. That is why I am not there either. I think for far too many people it is all about the money and nothing else. This applies to many aspects of life, not just the union.



Now, unfortunately I could not remove my mod hat to make these statements, but I really felt compelled to reply. I don't have an alias so I can't log out and back in again.

This is not a pro-vs-anti union thread. It has a topic. Nor is it attack a member thread. 
Let's keep on topic pleeease, for once. If not I can close it and simply link to the MANY other threads with the exact same discussion.

What about these "clubs" Perrone is talking about? What are their purposes? Are they social clubs?


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> " i then moved on as an electrician in the navy upon discharge entered a union apprenticeship. at 31 years old 16 years in the trade those 30 year veterans of nonunion electrical are not even fit to shine my wifes shoes. the fact is they arent even electricians even if they hold a liscense which we all know is just a matter of taking the right course to teach you have to take the test."
> 
> That was just copied from post #31 of yours from the other troll thread of yours.
> 
> ...


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Oh, is that a problem? Does it bother you?
> 
> 
> Just a question, why do unions show up uninvited to some of the jobs I work on and try to stop me from making my living?


doesnt bother me one bit but it is obvious you guys are just on these topics to start trouble


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bperrone said:


> i guess making a general statement of opinion about nonunion is personally attacking the you dumb ass



:whistling2:


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

480sparky said:


> She's not hot anymore? :001_huh:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they suddenly get ugly? :laughing:


still is and still are


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bperrone said:


> doesnt bother me one bit but it is obvious you guys are just on these topics to start trouble



Now that is to funny.

Ahh, I am not the newbie who's first two threads are sure to invite trouble. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bperrone said:


> .........If you spent half the effort trying to find a job as you spent on this forum in the past few days trolling the union way maybe your poor wife wouldn't have to carry the load............


If you would just spend half as much time on this forum formulating an adult response instead of researching how much time someone else spends here just so you can attack his character......


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## user10002 (Dec 3, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Now that is to funny.
> 
> Ahh, I am not the newbie who's first two threads are sure to invite trouble. :laughing:


the topics were not meant to start trouble i wanted to discuss with people what their opinions on these topics which may be a sensitive but do exist. you and your girls that are in the nounion sector dont know anything about either topic i brought up show me some where that you said something constructive. no where. but in the end i realized that this is a waste of time because i here trying to get a good discussion going and instead i am bickering with guys who whore themsleves out and sell themselves short and to feel better about it they come on here bashing guys that do not.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

" The you dumb ass" ........................... :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Obama will pay you to go school while collecting unemployment

Maybe you should take a few English classes at that" commity college" you spoke of.

Now are you going to get back on topic troll boy? I can see both your troll topics ( which are both the same and should atlleast be merged anyway) being closed by sundown if you mantain the same troll like attitude you have displayed thus far


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

bperrone said:


> the topics were not meant to start trouble i wanted to discuss with people what their opinions on these topics which may be a sensitive but do exist. you and your girls that are in the nounion sector dont know anything about either topic i brought up show me some where that you said something constructive. no where. but in the end i realized that this is a waste of time because i here trying to get a good discussion going and instead i am bickering with guys who whore themsleves out and sell themselves short and to feel better about it they come on here bashing guys that do not.


And once again, we're barraged with nothing more than the typical, run-of-the-mill pro-union rhetoric that the non-union sector is accused of perpetuating.



If you want to have an adult conversation, how about acting and posting like one?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

bperrone said:


> instead i am bickering with guys who whore themsleves out and sell themselves short and to feel better about it they come on here bashing guys that do not.


No, what makes me feel better is having no connection at all to organizations that act like these videos show.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=union+intimidation&search_type=&aq=f

Now I fully admit some of those videos are one sided anti-union propaganda but not all them are.


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## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

robnj772 said:


> " The you dumb ass" ........................... :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> Obama will pay you to go school while collecting unemployment
> 
> ...


He types in broken English. He did say he was Italian.:whistling2:

Charlie


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Charlie K said:


> He types in broken English. He did say he was Italian.:whistling2:
> 
> Charlie


 


bperrone said:


> well i am ambidextrous but i am not a troll unless by troll he mean a charming good looking strong young italian american man with a hot wife and two beautiful daughters in which case that would be me


He types like a typical texter/IMer..... long sentences, no punctation and cannot locate the Shift key.


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> What I don't get is how non-union guys bash us though we are (generally) paid better and have way better bennies. Cant argue that one. Amazes me.


So does the 3%-7% membership also amaze you. What is the total IBEW unemployment rate today? Back to the OP, the organization is set up to take in all involved in the electrical trade however, women and minorities are excepted only (in most states) because of federal and state laws. Most of these members will always be treated differently as will the organized hands, on job sites the stewarts or fleas will ask to see everyones dues card checking to see if there is an alpha letter in front of their number to determine who is a real member or just an organized hand. The different sections of the local make up the ruling/controlling factions of the local. Regardless of race/ethic/sex, different groups gather together to gain power.


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## al13nw4r3LC76 (Apr 6, 2009)

Didn't mean to derail. Good wiring gentleman.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

al13nw4r3LC76 said:


> Didn't mean to derail.


It happens to all of us. 




> Good wiring gentleman.


And you as well.


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> So for you money justifies anything?
> 
> It does not to me.


Good for you!


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## Control Freak (Mar 8, 2008)

back to the OP's question.......

Clubs are only organization of fellow union members with similiar interests such as the sportsmans club. the membership is open to all journeymen.


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

In the great big world there are a few things that happen
people that can, do!
people that can't bitch, complain and ask stupid questions that they can find the answer to if they just pull their head out of their ass 
we work to *live* it is not our hobby 
the sun comes up in the morning and sets in the night but not everyone can see the light :laughing:

These things apply to union and non union electricians so you all are not so different kiss and make up.


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