# measuring conduits with true tape



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

nick said:


> what is the best way to get true tape from point to point on a long runs of conduit , does anyone have trouble with it breaking half way ? looking for solutions what about leaving it in the conduit and it will not come out after one day ?


How about a vacuum and balloon?

InPhase277


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

A vacuum, an air compressor and a sandwich baggie.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

what's "true tape?"


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## nakulak (Dec 10, 2007)

maybe you've got a problem in your conduit you don't know about. that stuff's never broken on me.


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

True tape is a flat tape that doesn't stretch, and is marked with a number every foot or two. It's about 1/4" wide, and 1/32" thick. It usually comes on spools about the same size as a 500' spool of #12 THHN. There's usually about 3000' on a spool. 

It can be pulled into a conduit with a fishtape, it pulls easily in steel conduit, but tends to 'glue' itself to PVC. Not so bad if it's cold, but you almost can't get it pulled around 4-90's if it's hot. You can pull it pretty hard, I've rarely if ever broken it by hand. I've never tried blowing or sucking it in with a mouse, I doubt it would work. It can usually be pulled in with a masons line though. 

Since it doesn't stretch, and has foot markings on it, it's ideal for measuring a conduit run of any size. Be sure to add a bit for each 90. Also, you must know how to subtract, seems a few guys will mess this up!


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Aha! I've seen that! Guess I'll just keep using mason's twine and a tape measure. Doesn't cost very much.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

We just use this - http://www.idealindustries.com/prod...=5&l1=pulling_products&l2=valu-line_pull_line

Vacuum and sandwich baggie whistling2 pulls it right in.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Yep. I agree. Do they leave "true tape" in the pipe?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

*Conduit Measuring Tape *...............................(Not actual size or to scale...LMAO) 


Blow/suck/pull it in however ...just get it in.
We leave it IN the conduit until we are ready to pull the run for a couple of reasons:
1 - it's cheap
2 - it can be used to drag a heavier line through the pipe if need be
3 - you can check that the run hasn't been broken/jammed BEFORE you start the real pull
4 - etc


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Anyone use the "Man-pons" :









* Greenlee 37912-25 Boxed White*

....for blowing/sucking on those really long runs?


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## kendu (Feb 15, 2008)

Get a laser tape.http://www.myjunctionbox.com


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

Celtic, I've never seen the man pons. We've always used the 'mice'. Little nerf cylinder with eye hooks at either end and sized for the conduit. 

Also, most of our long runs are in plenum ceilings which require compression fittings. Never seem to lose much vacuum suction with those.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*true tape or conduit measuring tape*



nick said:


> what is the best way to get true tape from point to point on a long runs of conduit , does anyone have trouble with it breaking half way ? looking for solutions what about leaving it in the conduit and it will not come out after one day ?


 we have runs that are 289feet to 300 feet long cant run a fish tape , and after you pull in the true tape we pull it back out to save money on the cost of the tape just and leave a string in the pipe to pull in the 1/4 rope to pull in the larger rope but if we leave the true tape in over nite it does not come out the next day it sticks ?just thougth someone had the same problem and could tell us how they do there measuring on long lengths . but i get tried of hours wasted . my company cant buy rolls of true tape it cost 45 dollars a roll we would spend lots as we have hundreds of conduits to measure on one job ?


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

nick said:


> what is the best way to get true tape from point to point on a long runs of conduit , does anyone have trouble with it breaking half way ? looking for solutions what about leaving it in the conduit and it will not come out after one day ?





480sparky said:


> A vacuum, an air compressor and a sandwich baggie.


we actually use pieces of plastic bags from convenience stores...



waco said:


> Yep. I agree. Do they leave "true tape" in the pipe?


until we use it to pull in the larger rope needed to pull the wire.




Celtic said:


> *Conduit Measuring Tape *...............................(Not actual size or to scale...LMAO)
> 
> 
> Blow/suck/pull it in however ...just get it in.
> ...


yes, yes, yes and etc:laughing:



kendu said:


> Get a laser tape.


god damn crack addict salesmen...how in the heck is a laser tape gonna measure through 3 - 90's? 




goose134 said:


> Also, most of our long runs are in plenum ceilings which require compression fittings. Never seem to lose much vacuum suction with those.


the plastic bag from the convenience store will work on runs with SS fittings (without taping them) for upto about 200' or so...yes, this is from experience...




nick said:


> we have runs that are 289feet to 300 feet long cant run a fish tape , and after you pull in the true tape we pull it back out to save money on the cost of the tape just and leave a string in the pipe to pull in the 1/4 rope to pull in the larger rope but if we leave the true tape in over nite it does not come out the next day it sticks ?just thougth someone had the same problem and could tell us how they do there measuring on long lengths .iam just a helper but i get tried of hours wasted . my company cant buy rolls of true tape it cost 45 dollars a roll we would spend lots as we have hundreds of conduits to measure on one job ?


true tape costs <$0.02/foot...that is $6 for a 300 foot run...how much labor $ are spent pulling the true tape, then pulling it out and pulling in pulling string that costs about $0.01/ft?

talk about tripping of dollars to save nickels...


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

For those long runs if you do not have an air compressor you can always wind two fish tapes together. Ive done that more than once.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

kendu said:


> Get a laser tape.



How does a laser tape work on a run with any bends in it?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

goose134 said:


> Celtic, I've never seen the man pons. We've always used the 'mice'. Little nerf cylinder with eye hooks at either end and sized for the conduit.


I like mice :thumbsup:
I also like a piece of plastic baggie, visqueen, etc.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

I have had problems with true tape when it gets wet on long runs. usually blowing the pipe out with a vac for half an hour or so frees it right up.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

nick said:


> ... we pull it back out to save money on the cost of the tape just
> 
> .i am just a helper but i get tried of hours wasted .
> 
> my company cant buy rolls of true tape it cost 45 dollars a roll we would spend lots as we have hundreds of conduits to measure on one job ?


IMHO...
Saving the true tape IS not saving anyone any money.

You pull it in, you tie something else off to it, you pull it out ~ being careful not to get it all "rat nested", roll it up or re-use it right away.

That is actually a lot of time. The time spent is not worth the cost.
Pull it in - move.

The only time I would consider saving the tape is if it's the kevlar version:









1/4" version ~ Size 3000' (914 m) Capacity 39243 - 1250 lbs 

3/8" version~ average breaking strength 39244 - 1800 lbs.

1/2" version ~ average breaking strength 39245 - 2500 lbs.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> For those long runs if you do not have an air compressor you can always wind two fish tapes together. Ive done that more than once.


I just did that on a run that was some 300+/- feet. :thumbsup:


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*true tape measuring*

thanks for the response but you cant twist fish tapes together if the run is 4 inch conduit and over 300 feet long . were trying to not use a rodder . i get tried after 400 feet or so . and we are not going to use a fish tape get real .some of our runs are 600 feet long and you have 55 runs of 4 inch conduit in a duck bank , . as for the cost of the true tape , ya right ,, not this company it is too much/// oh ya.ask my boss about that . cant afford high dollar stuff here . we use the cheap stuff ,but back to problem with true tape breaking and then it sometimes balls up in a roll inside and we spend hours trying to get it out, to clear a new path for the next string to just get another sting in. or just blow passed it, with a new string ,we now have are measured length. but now have a mess with true tape. it slows down the pull process when it dont come out. the min cost of a roll $45. a roll so one of our jobs normally has 200 or more feeders min 300 foot per run so we would get 10 runs in at 200 times 300 ft = 60,000 feet of true tape 20 times $45. = $900. per job . if you leave them in and they dont come out when the glue is wet inside thats left over drips from couplings what a mess when its dried on that true tape overnite 12 or 24 hours dont mater it will sometimes dry during our 15 minute break each day you dont stop ever . its not dried yet even after months so yo smear it and it dries when you blast in your true tape ,all your true tape is stuck now .we never stop pulling we measure get length and pull it back out ,one out of ten conduits stick but cant use mule tape thats $ 700. to $1000.a role what were looking for is a better way to get it in with out the stick part can anyone answer that ? or can i apply for a job that has mule tape ?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

nick said:


> thanks for the response but you cant twist fish tapes together if the run is 4 inch conduit and over 300 feet long . were trying to not use a rodder . i get tried after 400 feet or so . and we are not going to use a fish tape get real .some of our runs are 600 feet long and you have 55 runs of 4 inch conduit in a duck bank , . as for the cost of the true tape , ya right ,, not this company it is too much/// oh ya.ask my boss about that . cant afford high dollar stuff here . we use the cheap stuff ,but back to problem with true tape breaking and then it sometimes balls up in a roll inside and we spend hours trying to get it out, to clear a new path for the next string to just get another sting in. or just blow passed it, with a new string ,we now have are measured length. but now have a mess with true tape. it slows down the pull process when it dont come out. the min cost of a roll $45. a roll so one of our jobs normally has 200 or more feeders min 300 foot per run so we would get 10 runs in at 200 times 300 ft = 60,000 feet of true tape 20 times $45. = $900. per job . if you leave them in and they dont come out when the glue is wet inside thats left over drips from couplings what a mess when its dried on that true tape overnite 12 or 24 hours dont mater it will sometimes dry during our 15 minute break each day you dont stop ever . its not dried yet even after months so yo smear it and it dries when you blast in your true tape ,all your true tape is stuck now .we never stop pulling we measure get length and pull it back out ,one out of ten conduits stick but cant use mule tape thats $ 700. to $1000.a role what were looking for is a better way to get it in with out the stick part can anyone answer that ? or can i apply for a job that has mule tape ?


This is confusing your boss will not buy true tape then you say the true tape is getting tangled ?
Perhaps I missed something.
If you are using true tape use it before you add lube. unless you attach a rope to it right away, for some reason true tape and moisture don't mix.
here is an experiment:
drag a 2 foot peice of true tape along the surface of a wet peice of EMT
then do the same thing with lube on the emt you will find some lubes will create more resistance (yellow) water creates a lot of resistance by itself.

If your pipe is getting wet you may want to drag the true tape across a rag soaked with wd40 this will displace any moisture.

If you are getting knots its likely that some part of your conduit run is sucking air usually right near the knot.. duct tape the couplings in that area. unless you have an obstruction, if this is such you will notice by the sound the air makes at the opposite end your sucking from.
if you are not using true tape you should be using jet line $6 for a bucket of a bizillion feet. if you are reusing jet line cut a 20 ft peice out of the center of every peice so your boss over orders every run. [sarc] this will be much cheaper than buying a new roll [/sarc]
you *can* put two fish together to make one it works quite well actually.

if all this fails
*get a bigger fish*
BTW your boss sounds like a guy I am glad I don't work for.
:bangin:


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

nick said:


> thanks for the response but you cant twist fish tapes together if the run is 4 inch conduit and over 300 feet long . were trying to not use a rodder . i get tried after 400 feet or so . and we are not going to use a fish tape *get real* .some of our runs are 600 feet long and you have 55 runs of 4 inch conduit in a duck bank ,..


Settle down dude.
A 600' ft is probably not going to happen even with 3 200' long snakes (although it might be possible)....but a 300' with 2 200' snakes *NO PROBLEM.*

On one snake, ball up some string and tape it off....send the whole snake into the pipe and attach a string to the end sticking out of the pipe.
Go to the other end and send the other snake in ~ leaving an open hook in it. You'll feel the other snake when you hit it....start pulling back and the hook will grab a loop on the ball of string that was taped to the first snake.
* No big deal....and a very real solution.*

Like I said, I performed this act not too long ago a 300' run. For whatever reason, the vacuums could not do the job - we had one blowing and one sucking.
The other alternative would be to dig up the run at the midpoint. If that is your solution, you can join the other guy that almost insisted that is what be done. He also got tired pushing a snake. He is currently unemployed.
This is what we do and we don't give up. 
Even if we spent 1/2 day with two men on the snakes, it was still a cheaper alternative than digging ....and a whole lot less tiring.




nick said:


> ....ask my boss about that . cant afford high dollar stuff here .
> ... one of our jobs normally has 200 or more feeders min 300 foot per run


Falling over a dollar for nickel.....maybe your boss should come on here :whistling2:




nick said:


> if you leave them in and they dont come out when the glue is wet inside thats left over drips from couplings what a mess when its dried


:blink:
PVC glue that doesn't dry in a matter of minutes???

So you guys are completing 60,000 of pipe and getting glue on the true tape???





> i get tried after 400 feet or so
> ....
> i am just a helper but i get tried of hours wasted


You seem to get tired a lot - sure this is the right career for you? :laughing:


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

be nice irishman....but i was thinking the same things....


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

oldman said:


> be nice irishman....but i was thinking the same things....


That _was_ nice :thumbsup:


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## goose134 (Nov 12, 2007)

In the past with some big pipe and long runs, we've had some success with using cannisters of compressed air in lieu of a vacuum. I know this is more about the tape getting stuck in the pipe, but if you need a LARGE volume of air moving in a pipe, this is the way to do it.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*true tape kid*

Ok like the wd40 , trick will try that . better yet ill pour 30/40 in the pipe ,if it works / hope the numbers stay on . we are running pvc pipe 6 feet down below grade in a duck bank and most of our runs are plastic spacers tie wire and rebar poured in solid , no way to cut out the middle , what i was saying about the true tape was my boss will not buy the good tape mule tape big tapes, we only get the small greenlee tape. so it does not last it breaks like i said , ya we glue our pipe one stick at a time with pvc glue and smack it with a sledge hammer and wood block to make sure its good and tight . 4 inch pipe needs to be hit to bottom out . the glue stays wet inside its shell for months drips out of the pvc coupling inside the pipe it looks white on the outside but it never dries inside just like on the top of the pvc can you know / when we go back months after the slab work is done to blast our true tape in , we are smearing it on the true tape and its holding on to the true tape and dries sticks and holds the true tape , we know the mud or water also holds it some jobs they make us run a mandrel but if its not in our specs or scope to do .we do not do it . we use a big 120lbs compressor , ya we use a plastic bag just like you guys and some times rags inside and plastic bags over them with duck tape thats no problem going in is ok , were just looking for a way to not get that true tape stuck. will try the wd40 thats about the best suggestion so far thanks . we not tired of electrical work but we like to work smart not hard . i watch i do and ill bitch until i find a better way .ask a question and i get feedback some good some bad . thats why i came to this web page .


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

i don't know, i've never had a piece of true tape get stuck or break in an empty conduit...i've never had the glue not dry to point that it will adhere to the true tape weeks after the conduit was installed..

me thinks this company is literally buying these projects and hiring the commensurate help to boot. 

no knock on you nick, you are apprentice and aren't expected to know better. But on a project like he one you are describing, there should be someone who knows what's going on.

my guess (i haven't looked at your profile)...southern state, big box retail, non-union, non-prevailing wage, 30-50 employees that seem to always change...

how close am I?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

nick said:


> Ok like the wd40 , trick will try that . better yet ill pour 30/40 in the pipe


thats not a good idea just a thin film on the tape is fine but don't saturate the pipe with it, in fact just spray a rag and drag the tape across the rag as its going into the pipe


> it looks white on the outside but it never dries inside just like on the top of the pvc can you know / when we go back months after the slab work is done to blast our true tape in , we are smearing it on the true tape and its holding on to the true tape and dries sticks and holds the true tape


 water is the only thing that will cause the glue to turn white, I am guessing it was raining when you installed the pipe, if I am right the glue will never dry correctly (when it does dry it will not bond the two peices) and then I question the skill of the journeyman overseeing the installation


> ill bitch until i find a better way .


the better way would be to dry the pipe before glueing it and keeping the water out of the glue even if it means throwing the glue away when it gets wet. no glue is better than wet glue

There is a local "boring company" here in south jersey that uses laborers to install pvc underground (just a way to steal work from 351) and they are notorius for this kind of stuff. 
It goes to show the need for _all aspects_ of the job to be overseen by a qualified j'man / j'woman, too often I see things considered "so easy anyone can do it" get screwed up by "anyone"


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

oldman said:


> me thinks this company is literally buying these projects and hiring the commensurate help to boot.


this is my guess as well. 
*To no fault of the OP*. It does seem there is a lack of experience or direction that seems to be typical on these type of projects. A good foreman would/should have picked up on this.

BTW sorry for the double post


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

> i get tried of hours wasted .


 


> my company cant buy rolls of true tape it cost 45 dollars a roll we would spend lots as we have hundreds of conduits to measure on one job ?


 
:laughing: $45 for 3000' of truetape = 1/2 hour of labor. Slap your boss up side the head for me :laughing: 


I always *pre lube the conduits* with the yellow Ideal lube or that new blue/green stuff. Water it down a bit and squirt some in both ends before you vacuum in the jetline or truetape. *It keeps the jetline from burning* into the 90's and I presume it would keep the truetape from sticking.

Use a foam mouse. They cost next to nothing. On tough/long runs lube the mouse up a bit to create a better seal.

The muletape linked on page one work excellent for pulling AND measuring. If you don't tangle it up, it will last forever.


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

220/221 said:


> :laughing:
> 
> I always *pre lube the conduits* with the yellow Ideal lube or that new blue/green stuff. Water it down a bit and squirt some in both ends before you vacuum in the jetline or truetape. *It keeps the jetline from burning* into the 90's and I presume it would keep the truetape from sticking.


I have problems with the yellow if left overnight in emt


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*true tape*

ya your correct the wd/40 works , no stick when we pull back true tape thanks for the tip. next you are correct yae weaoll are from that ther southern state and were real slow down here, but i was born in new brunswick new jersey lived in Edison until we moved to the south when my dad retired from the union . hooked up with local 606# down here. but they ran out of work so i went to work for a rat 1200 employee company and are wage is about same as i was making when i was union , and the big box is a sewage plant we think we got 150 men on this here job but wer not sure real slow with math down here looks like the same group for past year or so ., most of our work is industrial jobs jails water works orange fruit packing plants stuff like that , dont know what romex is .i got another question if you union guys still what to talk to this here non union southern boy let me know ill post it .this is another new problem with feeders ? i look at it as a electrician is a electrician no mater were he or she is from you can be a good one or a bad one but you learn by doing or asking questions my dad says if you dont know ask . my whole family is electricians we dont know anything else .


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

ah...a jersey boy...

griffin electric? Dixie? c'mon, spill the beans...

you'd think at that size, they would have someone who has some sense:thumbsup:


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

just post nick. I am sure if anyone has a problem they will let you know.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2007)

Tei?


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*pulling in feeders multiple runs*

were pulling in feeders off spools that are paralleled 4 conductors on each spool ya know on that ther spool truck, we use that new green lee automatic wire feeder // but you cant put on the colored tape on the wire when your pull is done before you cut it. thers no way because the four conductors cant be seperated during a pull going into the wire feeder, cant use that greenlee metal rack conductor seperator part ya know that rake looking thing located before the rubber tire the conductors run though ? we took it off it jams up the pullin sorry greenlee . it dont work on our spools ,most of the wire we get from texas shipped to us in florida is rolled on a spool and most is twisted tri plex not real triplex but twisted at the plant just comes sloppy rolled up on to the spool that way , but all black no{ marks} to help us out to phase abc to locate each phase . each spool has 6 or 7 runs of 750 mcm multipule pulls off one spool ya know to save money for my boss, less cuts less money , the ground is a seperate roll no problem on that its smaller in size anyway .. have you seen any testers to check all four wires at one time or do you guys use a ohm meter one at a time ? we color code than we megg every time every feeder ab bc ca ya know, then again we test color coding phasen before we make up. were real safe we double test . this takes alot of time got a better way or new way out there let me know?/// time is money but i dont like doing extra work that dont make sense even if my boss is trying to save a dollar.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

I think who ever is running the show down there has some real issues.
Is colored wire more costly than black wire...adding in the cost of constant phasing with labor costs being what they are?


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## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

nick said:


> were pulling in feeders off spools that are paralleled 4 conductors on each spool ya know on that ther spool truck, we use that new green lee automatic wire feeder // but you cant put on the colored tape on the wire when your pull is done before you cut it. thers no way because the four conductors cant be seperated during a pull going into the wire feeder, cant use that greenlee metal rack conductor seperator part ya know that rake looking thing located before the rubber tire the conductors run though ? we took it off it jams up the pullin sorry greenlee . it dont work on our spools ,most of the wire we get from texas shipped to us in florida is rolled on a spool and most is twisted tri plex not real triplex but twisted at the plant just comes sloppy rolled up on to the spool that way , but all black no{ marks} to help us out to phase abc to locate each phase . each spool has 6 or 7 runs of 750 mcm multipule pulls off one spool ya know to save money for my boss, less cuts less money , the ground is a seperate roll no problem on that its smaller in size anyway .. have you seen any testers to check all four wires at one time or do you guys use a ohm meter one at a time ? we color code than we megg every time every feeder ab bc ca ya know, then again we test color coding phasen before we make up. were real safe we double test . this takes alot of time got a better way or new way out there let me know?/// time is money but i dont like doing extra work that dont make sense even if my boss is trying to save a dollar.


who ever orders the wire should say" please mark the wire with" what ever colors your using
"celtic"


> Is colored wire more costly than black wire


the cost isn't usually the issue but sometimes lead time is. That being said the wire can be ordered with striped phase markings for a few dollars more, but they should still be tested after installation


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

gold said:


> the cost isn't usually the issue but sometimes lead time is. That being said the wire can be ordered with striped phase markings for a few dollars more, but they should still be tested after installation


No question on the testing..megging....lead time on the colors?
With that many runs encompassing that many feet, full colored rolls could be ordered the day the shovel hits the dirt ~ well before any pipe is even laid.
As pipe runs get completed, order more wire and begin to use what was "pre-ordered".
The money "lost" on the pre-order may very well offset today's copper price...the company can sell the scrap to reduce costs further here....or if too much was ordered ~ the next job is free :thumbsup:.
I don't see the price of copper(or aluminum) going down any time soon.

At some point, you may wind up ace-holes over elbows....and all black it becomes.


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

nick said:


> but you cant put on the colored tape on the wire when your pull is done before you cut it. thers no way because the four conductors cant be seperated during a pull going into the wire feeder,.


You really have got to be kidding.

it takes all of a minute or two to ring out a set of wires. You already have guys at each end of the pull anyway and presumably a radio or some sort of communicating with the other end. Why are you even considering trying to reinvent the wheel?

and to this:



> my whole family is electricians we dont know anything else .


Did you piss them off too so they wouldn;t help you or what?

You are gettting some help yet you want to deride those that are helping you. As Bugs Bunny would say," what a maroon".


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*feeder color coding problem*

ya i like that // did not know you can order a stripe on the conductors when you order wire , dont get in the office much . i tell my leadman monday about that one thanks , we did one job with colored feeders one time and when we pulled it in the clear outer jacket cover when we pulled it up on tugger side looked like it cracked or rippled up , meaning the engineer didnt like it a made us shrink tube each conductor we use fingers to pull didnt make any change . them state jobs suck. we pull a lot of copper last year but this year it seems to be alu. most of the copper wire i here is going to louisiana and whats left over we get, let me ask is there a price ffor that color stripe added to your order or is it just a request when ordered . because if it cost money well thell just look at me and say we dont use that stuff out here ?


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm starting to smell a bit of poopies here.

Why is an apprentice so concerned with cost, wasted time, ordering wire, etc?
Don't get me wrong, it's great that you are.....but...seriously, this is getting a bit extreme for a helper.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*no more questions*

ya got a lot of electrical background after high school joined the us navy was em3 4 year ships company cvan 68 , nimitz nuke program navy electricians school , started late in the trade but after that when i got in the trade i didnt know how to do electrical work its completely different work .best to yas


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

My apologies regarding your father. No intent to offend.

as an apprentice, you need to figure out who you can ask all the questions of at work. Since you do have an abundance of questions, you might want to be sure that the questions you ask of your journeymen are not "dumb" questions that will piss them off. Learn to ask what is truly important but also something they believe is worth answering.

what type of wire are you speaking of anyway?



> we did one job with colored feeders one time and when we pulled it in the *clear outer jacket* cover


would this possibly be the nylon outer jacket on THHN/THWN?

as to the triplex but not triplex,what type of wire is that?

To ask questions that you will not be made fun of asking, learn the correct nomenclature for whatever it is you speak. It makes it easier for others to understand and offer some help without trying to guess what you mean.

Now, to the boss only buying the measuring tape they will. If they are willing to accept the loss of time to recover it, then that is what you do. You might suggest a better (read: more financially beneficial) method or materials that do such but it is still up to them to decide to spend their money in a particular manner. 

If they are knowingly and willingly throwing money away, then there is little you can do about it. Sometimes a person that shows too much interest in something they have deemed to be the proper method of wasting thier money, may be seen as meddlesome and a trouble maker. Use caution when you tell them they are dumb for throwing money away. They did not get to be the size of company they are without doing something right.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

*feeder color coding*

ya thanks nap , well the 750mcm we are pulling now is xhhw-2 black the colored wire we talked about with the rippled outer jacket was thwn with a clear coated jacket , .


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## nap (Dec 26, 2007)

> well the 750mcm we are pulling now is xhhw-2


that surely sucks. Can be tough stuff to work with. Had a job once where all the white 10 and 12 had the insulation melted into the copper strands. Miserable to srip out, simply miserable.



> black the colored wire we talked about with the rippled outer jacket was thwn with a clear coated jacket


the nylon does provide a purpose. Without it, it is simply thhw which should not have caused a problem since it is wet rated and it is not the nylon coating that provides it. It does require to derate from a lower temp rating scale though.



> , ya i get asking and they get looking at me, problem is iv only been working in the trade for 3 solid years and they let me skip 2.5 years of abc school do to my em3 schooling in the navy, didnt need to go back to ac dc theory , the years i missed most electricans learn what i didnt see .


I had heard the ABC was not all that hyped about theory anyway (from the nephew of a regional ABC director in California) but was more code oriented at the expense of theory.

while it seems you are anxious to learn and make up for lost lessons, remember that your journeyman must continue to provide a reasonable amount of work while he is trying to teach you. it is a tough balance sometimes. Work product must remain high even at the cost of training time.

also, since this job is much harder than a typical layman seems to understand, a jw can become exhausted and frustrated, sometimes at the very same thing you are asking about, so you will tend to get the "evil eye" when trying to get the training you want while he is simply tired and frustrated.

I have always been told to pick your battles. That applies to you in this situation as well. Pick your questions. Make them worthwhile and time them so as to not PO the JW. After spending time in the Navy (btw; thanks) I am sure you understand the statement "hurry up and wait". Patience is a virtue. All things will come in time. You have a long career ahead of you and you do not need to learn it all today.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

nap said:


> while it seems you are anxious to learn and make up for lost lessons, remember that your journeyman must continue to provide a reasonable amount of work while he is trying to teach you. it is a tough balance sometimes. Work product must remain high even at the cost of training time.
> 
> also, since this job is much harder than a typical layman seems to understand, a jw can become exhausted and frustrated, sometimes at the very same thing you are asking about, so you will tend to get the "evil eye" when trying to get the training you want while he is simply tired and frustrated.
> 
> I have always been told to pick your battles. That applies to you in this situation as well. Pick your questions. Make them worthwhile and time them so as to not PO the JW. After spending time in the Navy (btw; thanks) I am sure you understand the statement "hurry up and wait". Patience is a virtue. All things will come in time. You have a long career ahead of you and you do not need to learn it all today.


Some good points Nap.

I seem to be an exception, in that I enjoy passing on what was taught me. I feel a responsibility to teach what I was taught. BUT, it can get frustrating at times. If someone is trying to learn, I seem to have a lot more patience than with someone who doesn't want to learn. That person won't last long with me.


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

nick said:


> what is the best way to get true tape from point to point on a long runs of conduit , does anyone have trouble with it breaking half way ? looking for solutions what about leaving it in the conduit and it will not come out after one day ?


Never had a problem with TruTape sticking or breaking. Great stuff, here.

Want a Hint From Heloise? In the era before truetape I pulled a 1/4" plastic rope in a 300 lf 3" underground PVC. Pulled it out, laid it on the ground, went to lunch, came back, measured, ordered the wire. Next day pulled wire it, 5 lf short. BTW, did I mention that the above ground temperature was 28 degrees F?

Guess that is why we Florida men don't swim in our speedos in the winter!

Best Wishes


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## HighWirey (Sep 17, 2007)

480sparky said:


> A vacuum, an air compressor and a sandwich baggie.


Used to work with a guy who subscribed to your 'sandwich baggie' theory.

Only problem with him was he usually left half of his bolgney sandwich in the baggie. Calls on radio: "Did you get your fast lunch".

BTW, the Writers Guild strike is over now . . .

Best Wishes


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## shunt trip (Jan 15, 2009)

*long pulls*

When sucking strings, For The longest,or most difficult raceways, If the conduit is useable(no obstructions) I can always get a baggie & jetline through. Then true tape, & so on. It always pays to do good pipe work.


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## nick (Feb 14, 2008)

shunt trip said:


> When sucking strings, For The longest,or most difficult raceways, If the conduit is useable(no obstructions) I can always get a baggie & jetline through. Then true tape, & so on. It always pays to do good pipe work. Well what the new tool does is one line one time one measurement ! No expensive mule tape and the labor to pull true tape into a raceway ,after reading and listening this year on the forum i found out that most electricians here dont do large construction projects like we do. So a few runs of feeders is ok with a small company with just old true tape or mule tape but we run into 200 or more on a single project so its a real time and labor saver the Stringking saves us thousands of hours on a project and it is exact on the footage every time , our company has the tools and if it makes money we get it . check out JENCORE .net take care shunt trip let me know what you think ? :thumbsup:


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