# Hot Tub Wiring Under Deck



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

What do you guys use to feed a hot tub under the deck from a 50 amp GFCI?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

The last one where I had to go under a deck I used all Carflex.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> What do you guys use to feed a hot tub under the deck from a 50 amp GFCI?


2" rigid metal conduit...:thumbup::laughing::laughing:


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Peter D said:


> The last one where I had to go under a deck I used all Carflex.


 

Is carflex the same thing as liquid tight? I planned on using UG cable, but 680.20 says I can't, plus it says I need an insulated EGC. AM I barking at the wrong tree?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> Is carflex the same thing as liquid tight? I planned on using UG cable, but 680.20 says I can't, plus it says I need an insulated EGC. AM I barking at the wrong tree?


Yeah, Carflex is non-metallic liquid tight. Don't bother with UF cable unless you want to be a hack.  Carflex is limited to 6' lengths so you may have to use PVC.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Is carflex the same thing as liquid tight? I planned on using UG cable, but 680.20 says I can't, plus it says I need an insulated EGC. AM I barking at the wrong tree?


 
No,, carflex is fine make sure you run the EGC..


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> No,, carflex is fine make sure you run the EGC..


 

Look at 680.21 (a) (3)


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> No,, carflex is fine make sure you run the EGC..


 

Looks fine to me as long as it is supported every 3'.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Looks fine to me as long as it is supported every 3'.



Great stuff to work with...:thumbup:


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Great stuff to work with...:thumbup:


 
Table C5 says I can pull 4 #6 conductors in it. Is that true? Or am I gonna have to grease em up real good and bust my balls pulling?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> Table C5 says I can pull 4 #6 conductors in it. Is that true? Or am I gonna have to grease em up real good and bust my balls pulling?


What size are you working with..?


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> What size are you working with..?


 

I am looking at 3/4 inch, I left that important detail out.


----------



## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

The bitch of it is I could run ug cable and people would probably never see it and be none the wiser. I am looking on Maynards website and #6 THHN is $83.00 per 100 ft, roll. I will need probably 30 or so feet of each color. So, I will lose cash, but gain inventory on this if I buy by the roll.. It would be awfull easy to slap up some UG cable. My problem is that I have pride in my work.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> The bitch of it is I could run ug cable and people would probably never see it and be none the wiser. I am looking on Maynards website and #6 THHN is $83.00 per 100 ft, roll. I will need probably 30 or so feet of each color. So, I will lose cash, but gain inventory on this if I buy by the roll.. It would be awfull easy to slap up some UG cable. My problem is that I have pride in my work.


Go to Orange or Blue and get cuts of whatever length wire you need. Or be a real contractor and get cuts from your supply house. :thumbsup:


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

look at the instruction manual that came with the spa. They almost all require the use of an insulated grounding conductor.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Using UF outside of the home is a violation being it has an uninsulated ground, using UF under a deck is a good way to kill racoons.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> The bitch of it is I could run ug cable and people would probably never see it and be none the wiser. I am looking on Maynards website and #6 THHN is $83.00 per 100 ft, roll. I will need probably 30 or so feet of each color. So, I will lose cash, but gain inventory on this if I buy by the roll.. It would be awfull easy to slap up some UG cable. My problem is that I have pride in my work.


Do the cheat method, buy that 100' roll, tape one conductor white- 30 + 30 + 30 = 90' and run a #10 gr for a ground. But I would try to use PVC conduit and snake that in, pulling conductors at length in carflex is a PIA.


----------



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

cabletie said:


> look at the instruction manual that came with the spa. They almost all require the use of an insulated grounding conductor.


 As does the N.E.C.


----------



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Do the cheat method, buy that 100' roll, tape one conductor white- 30 + 30 + 30 = 90' and run a #10 gr for a ground. But I would try to use PVC conduit and snake that in, pulling conductors at length in carflex is a PIA.


You can't use #10 for the ground. It had to be the same size as the current carrying conductors, but no smaller than #8.

Also, you can't tape #6


----------



## ecelectric (Mar 27, 2009)

Last ones I did I ran rx through the house then changed over to thhn at the disconnect.I think the rx is only allowed on single familys


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B W E said:


> You can't use #10 for the ground. It had to be the same size as the current carrying conductors, but no smaller than #8.
> 
> Also, you can't tape #6


Why ? What code ? #10 for 30 amp thru 60 amp OCP. Is that an 11' change ?


----------



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

I would think that the insulated ground is required from the disconnect to the tub. Not all the way from the panel. What if the disconnect is simply a gfi breaker in the panel? Ufer isn't insulated....


----------



## B W E (May 1, 2011)

Shockdoc said:


> Why ? What code ? #10 for 30 amp thru 60 amp OCP. Is that an 11' change ?


I could be wrong.... Might have said that in mfg. Instructions.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

B W E said:


> You can't use #10 for the ground. It had to be the same size as the current carrying conductors, but no smaller than #8.
> 
> Also, you can't tape #6





Shockdoc said:


> Why ? What code ? #10 for 30 amp thru 60 amp OCP. Is that an 11' change ?


Some uneducated manufacturers require a larger egc per their instructions. That's why I don't read instructions.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

B W E said:


> I would think that the insulated ground is required from the disconnect to the tub. Not all the way from the panel. What if the disconnect is simply a gfi breaker in the panel? Ufer isn't insulated....


depends on what methods are used , Romex thru the house to a disconnect mounted on house, then you are correct with an insulated ground henceforth. A UG installation from the house to disconnect would require a minimum of #10 for up to 60 amps.:thumbsup:


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

If the gfi is in the panel, then insulated ground all the way to the panel by manufactures instructions. If it is a 2 ckt. Panel with gfi then I would end the insulated ground there (If it was ok to instructions) It may say the branch circuit wiring must have an insulated ground then I would run a insulated ground all the way back to the panel. If a spa panel is used instead of a spa disconnect and has provisions for other breakers then I would consider it a feeder {680.25(a) and 680.25(b)} then there are 7 wiring methods and you need an insulated ground. But that is the way I would do it. After I read the instructions.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I have been burned before so I read the instructions.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The one we did yesterday we used 3/4" PVC and transitioned to the non-metallic flexible conduit under the deck as close as possible to the terminal supply box.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

cabletie said:


> If the gfi is in the panel, then insulated ground all the way to the panel by manufactures instructions. If it is a 2 ckt. Panel with gfi then I would end the insulated ground there (If it was ok to instructions) It may say the branch circuit wiring must have an insulated ground then I would run a insulated ground all the way back to the panel. If a spa panel is used instead of a spa disconnect and has provisions for other breakers then I would consider it a feeder {680.25(a) and 680.25(b)} then there are 7 wiring methods and you need an insulated ground. But that is the way I would do it. After I read the instructions.


Chapter 3 wiring methods can be used on the interior of 680 wiring method. 

Once outside of the house the EGC must be insulated.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

If it says in the instructions that you need an insulated ground with the branch ckt conductors then you need an insulated ground. That was the interpatation of one inspector so it needed it all the way back to the panel where the gfi was.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

> The one we did yesterday we used 3/4" PVC and transitioned to the non-metallic flexible conduit under the deck as close as possible to the terminal supply box.


I saw the pics, nice job.


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

cabletie said:


> If it says in the instructions that you need an insulated ground with the branch ckt conductors then you need an insulated ground. That was the interpatation of one inspector so it needed it all the way back to the panel where the gfi was.


What a pita that must've been to fix. I would have changed the disco to a "sub panel" and originated the BC from there and told the EI to... blank my blank.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I am surprised no one else has had that problem. He knew what he was looking for like he just came from an inspectors class. His second question was where is the manual? He told me he has not seen one yet that did not require it. That job was under the 02 code. I don't do too many. Same house was installing an inground pool; electrician came with the pool company. He saw the name on the permit and told me he was going to fail it five times before he would pass it. And he did. He said the same guys wouldn’t learn.

Quick question. When you bug to the equipotential ring did you use potting compound? The inspector made them hit every connection with potting compound like it was the inside of a wet-niche fixture. I don't see that anywhere but it makes sense.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

cabletie said:


> Quick question. When you bug to the equipotential ring did you use potting compound? The inspector made them hit every connection with potting compound like it was the inside of a wet-niche fixture. I don't see that anywhere but it makes sense.




Use the proper connections and don't worry about it.


----------



## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

> Chapter 3 wiring methods can be used on the interior of 680 wiring method.


on some maybe not all

yes 680.42(c) for outdoor spas and hot tubs when the manufactures instructions don't say othewise.
yes 680.43 indoor spas and hot tubs when the manufactures instructions don't say otherwise
Yes 680.21(4) pool motors for single family dwellings.
I don’t see that rule for feeders (680.25) other than the exception for existing remote panelboards. Or specialized pool equipment 680.27 which covers things like electrically operated pool covers. It is also not in 680.23(f)(1) branch circuit wiring for underwater luminaries.

I would consider the wiring to a spa panel which has provisions for other breakers a feeder. I would think that if you put in a disconnect for a spa it would be a branch circuit. If you put in a panel it would be a feeder. It realy is not that hard to run it all the way back in pvc or emt, especialy if you only have to do it once and not go back.


----------



## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

I'd run EMT to within 6' of the the tub then transition to LFMC.


----------

