# Troubleshoot



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

He burnt up a connection somewhere.

Turn the leaf blower on or use a heat gun, hair dryer, toaster, etc. on the circuit and see what the voltage reads.

Did you test the voltage with a wiggy?


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

Also check the outlet the blower was on first. Keep in mind that a receptacle may read hot but may not be feeding downstream. I take all wires off and pig tail them when dealing with this. This way you can confirm voltage and proceed. 

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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

38 volts to what, ground or neutral? Sounds like a bad neutral connection.


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## CADPoint (Jul 5, 2007)

The first hot went to the light in large room, loose there!


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I know what it is, you can just pay me my 2hr min without the trip fee....
Ready?


"not code by any means or safe for that matter."


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

backstay said:


> 38 volts to what, ground or neutral? Sounds like a bad neutral connection.




To ground 


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

HackWork said:


> He burnt up a connection somewhere.
> 
> Turn the leaf blower on or use a heat gun, hair dryer, toaster, etc. on the circuit and see what the voltage reads.
> 
> Did you test the voltage with a wiggy?




38 volts , fluke t-600


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## 3DDesign (Oct 25, 2014)

Bad connection at one of the outlets upstream from the one he was using or the one he was using. Are they back wired?
Start pulling every outlet on that circuit, even the ones that work.


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

3DDesign said:


> Bad connection at one of the outlets upstream from the one he was using or the one he was using. Are they back wired?
> Start pulling every outlet on that circuit, even the ones that work.


Anyone can do that. The trick is to go to the failed connection by figuring out how they wired it, not one at a time.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

backstay said:


> Anyone can do that. The trick is to go to the failed connection by figuring out how they wired it, not one at a time.


Just like the mechanic who can hit an engine with a hammer and fix it but charges for the skill, not the labor.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

WronGun said:


> 38 volts , fluke t-600
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



There is the problem. That is fantom voltage


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The Fluke T-600 is a high impedance DMM all the same.

Mac has it.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

~CS~


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

chicken steve said:


> ~CS~


That's the fancy pants version for you rich electricians.
He is one for us oldtimers.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> ~CS~


I gave up carrying my Fluke T5 and now carry a wiggy, only mine says Klein on it instead of SquareD :thumbsup:


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

I want the one that does continuity!


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> I want the one that does continuity!


I don't use a continuity tester much anymore. I use 120V, I find it to be more reliable. Such as today when I had to figure out a 4-way switch system in a 3-family house hallway that the customer removed the switches and screwed up. I just used wago levernuts to temporarily connect the wires to line voltage to figure it out.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> I don't use a continuity tester much anymore. I use 120V, I find it to be more reliable. Such as today when I had to figure out a 4-way switch system in a 3-family house hallway that the customer removed the switches and screwed up. I just used wago levernuts to temporarily connect the wires to line voltage to figure it out.


Whatever gets it done brother!


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## drspec (Sep 29, 2012)

I use my Fluke T+ daily.....it does continuity

The T5-600 rarely leaves the van these days


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I don't use a continuity tester much anymore. I use 120V, I find it to be more reliable. Such as today when I had to figure out a 4-way switch system in a 3-family house hallway that the customer removed the switches and screwed up. I just used wago levernuts to temporarily connect the wires to line voltage to figure it out.


Did you flat rate it? Bet you lost your ball on that one.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

sbrn33 said:


> Did you flat rate it? Bet you lost your ball on that one.



:no:


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

Check each outlet. Prob a screw not tight or a wire fell out of the stab connectors


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

drspec said:


> I use my Fluke T+ daily.....it does continuity
> 
> The T5-600 rarely leaves the van these days




I don't understand the difference , they both test voltage ? My whole career of 12 yrs I've never used real wiggy's 


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

backstabs,:no::no:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> I don't understand the difference , they both test voltage ? My whole career of 12 yrs I've never used real wiggy's
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A normal digital multimeter or tester like the Fluke T5 will read ghost voltage. This becomes a real pain in the ass, especially in troubleshooting of issues in old houses. That's why I use a Wiggy, because it doesn't get fooled by ghost voltage. LowZ meters like the 117 and testers like the T+Pro also don't have issues with ghost voltage most of the time.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

Wiggy's are for old man electricians in their 80's. 


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

far from the 80s and they still work just fine with no electronics!


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

papaotis said:


> far from the 80s and they still work just fine with no electronics!




A transistor radio still plays music but it doesn't mean it's worth a ****. 


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## papaotis (Jun 8, 2013)

it is if you still have one full of vacuum tubes


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm 37, I have more meters than I will ever need, and a choose to use a Wiggy because it works best and I am not some kid trying to impress people with bravado.


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## Drsparky14 (Oct 22, 2016)

To each their own


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## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

HackWork said:


> I'm 37, I have more meters than I will ever need, and a choose to use a Wiggy because it works best and I am not some kid trying to impress people with bravado.


Just a child.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I can see that I'm miles away from most.

I kill power to the entire area.

This zaps ghost voltages -- entirely.

I dope out my circuits at low voltages. 

I can RACE through circuits knowing that I can't fry anything -- especially myself.

Low voltage is exactly how Edison worked up his full power circuits. 

He achieved this by simply running his DC generators at very low speeds.

This is one of the reasons why he was convinced that DC was inherently better than AC.

( His real reason was that he couldn't understand the math required for AC circuits -- imaginary numbers and all that trig stuff. He didn't realize that Tesla's AC could be dumbed down into DC equivalent terms, so that the average Joe could figure out enough to get things to work.)


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

telsa said:


> I can see that I'm miles away from most.


Yeah, because you're still on the job playing with other circuits while the rest of us finished and left and are on the way to the next job. :thumbup:


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, because you're still on the job playing with other circuits while the rest of us finished and left and are on the way to the next job. :thumbup:



Not quite.

But, it's nice banter. :thumbs:

Speed+ no collateral damage to pay for = Winning big time.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Owner of factory: I lots half a million dollars of production while that moron spent two hours shutting down the whole factory's electrical system for a problem that turned out to be a breaker was off........................................


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

macmikeman said:


> Owner of factory: I lots half a million dollars of production while that moron spent two hours shutting down the whole factory's electrical system for a problem that turned out to be a breaker was off........................................


Cute.

It's a nice fantasy.


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

HackWork said:


> A normal digital multimeter or tester like the Fluke T5 will read ghost voltage. This becomes a real pain in the ass, especially in troubleshooting of issues in old houses. That's why I use a Wiggy, because it *doesn't get fooled by ghost voltage.* LowZ meters like the 117 and testers like the T+Pro also don't have issues with ghost voltage *most of the time*.


Correct



Drsparky14 said:


> Wiggy's are for old man electricians in their 80's.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wrong


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## Kyrton (Feb 2, 2016)

That's it, I am buying a damn wiggy. I feel like I should own one.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

You should have bought one 3 yrs ago when you read posts from me telling everybody how great they are for troubleshooting ,like how Hackswork did. Only everybody now wants one since he says its good....................................

No respect, I tell ya, I can't get no respect around here...........


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I've been using my Wiggy since you were in diapers!


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Kyrton said:


> That's it, I am buying a damn wiggy. I feel like I should own one.


There is still one old school high quality CAT III rated made in USA solenoid tester available: 

Knopp K-60


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

120 to ground , 73 volts to neutral 


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

WronGun said:


> 120 to ground , 73 volts to neutral


If that is an accurate reading, and that's what you read at every recep or fixture in the circuit, here's a thought. 

If some DIY work borrowed / mixed or otherwise jacked up a neutral somewhere, you wind up with a halfassed multiwire branch circuit. 

If you lose a neutral connection somewhere between the panel and the first device, voltage from either leg to neutral is going to fluctuate as the loads on either leg changes, and you'd see what you're seeing at every device. 

If that makes sense maybe power down and 

- verify the ground at that point - run an extension cord down to the panel
- check the continuity / resistance of the neutral to ground at that point
- check the continuity / resistance of the neutral at that point to the panel - extension cord again


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

Some outlets test 120 to neutral , yet they Won't power up a working floor lamp ... I will try what you mentioned 


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

splatz said:


> There is still one old school high quality CAT III rated made in USA solenoid tester available:
> 
> Knopp K-60


Etcon is also made in USA and they have a model that also reads continuity.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

TGGT said:


> Etcon is also made in USA and they have a model that also reads continuity.


Have you used the Etcon, and do you like it?


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> Some outlets test 120 to neutral , yet they Won't power up a working floor lamp ... I will try what you mentioned
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What voltage reading do you get when the lamp is plugged in?

It sounds like a typical poor connection. Touching enough to read voltage but not enough to power something. Sometimes the lamp will go on very slightly for a split second until the poor connection gets hot enough and fails.


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

splatz said:


> Have you used the Etcon, and do you like it?


Yeah, I discovered a short thanks to the etcon because you don't have to switch between voltage and continuity. I turned off the circuit and was just making sure it was off and the continuity light and sound was going off. Wasn't enough to trip the breaker but I was able to trace it out to where wires were pinched in a metal box.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

This is a box in found.... doesn't matter which 2 wires I touch... every single combination of 2 wires has 120volts... I've never seen anything like this.... even ground to ground 120volts 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

WronGun said:


> This is a box in found.... doesn't matter which 2 wires I touch... every single combination of 2 wires has 120volts... I've never seen anything like this.... even ground to ground 120volts
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see that all the time, that's why I stopped using the T5 in resi.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If you're not getting an accurate reading, you can wear out a circle in the carpet chasing your tail.


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm going to buy wiggies, I'll need to come back for this job 


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

What did your plug-tester show before you opened up this can of worms ?


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## WronGun (Oct 18, 2013)

I didn't bother going crazy testing Receptacles .... opened them up and these are the readings I'm getting. Before they blew something with the leaf blower everything was working fine since they last touched it 3-4 yrs ago. Funny the breakers don't trip in the rat nest federal pacific panel they have..... I don't even want to get into this because I need to return with another guy to go through everything and i need to pay him obviously and the possibility of not figuring it out or finding the issue is there.... homeowner did 30 yrs of wiring additions all over the damn house, he is 87 years old now and doesn't remember what he did......


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

For now use a lightbulb pigtail.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

WronGun said:


> *I didn't bother going crazy testing Receptacles* .... opened them up and these are the readings I'm getting. Before they blew something with the leaf blower everything was working fine since they last touched it 3-4 yrs ago. Funny the breakers don't trip in the rat nest federal pacific panel they have..... I don't even want to get into this because I need to return with another guy to go through everything and i need to pay him obviously and the possibility of not figuring it out or finding the issue is there.... homeowner did 30 yrs of wiring additions all over the damn house, he is 87 years old now and doesn't remember what he did......
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They are the first thing I jack in -- upon customer complaint. 

They make great dummy loads, too.

They won't figure out every malady, but they catch quite a few.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

telsa said:


> What did your plug-tester show before you opened up this can of worms ?


telsa, FWIW, I have had bad connections in which my T5 showed voltage and so did a typical plug-in tester. But my wiggy showed it being dead and a lamp wouldn't light. 

So I don't put too much faith in receptacle testers anymore. Just my experience.


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