# Going through main beam



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

What code book are you looking in? That would be a building code issue, not an NEC one.

But basically, structural beams and framework are off-limits when it comes to making holes in them.


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## martinkulik (Jan 9, 2009)

Thank you. I was looking at NEC. It says about boring through wood joints did not mention anything specifically about structural beams.
Martin


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The NEC doesn't get into structural issues as there no need for it to do so. It would be redundant as building codes already cover the issue.


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## martinkulik (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanx a lot.
Martin


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## raider1 (Jan 22, 2007)

If this is an engineered structural beam you must check with the beam manufacture for whether or not drilling of the beam is permitted and if permitted where and how big the hole can be.

Chris


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Just a rule of thumb, never disrupt the integrity of a structural member such as a beam. A very big reason is that fire finds every opening there is and that beam, if penetrated, will not last as long as it is designed to last in case of fire.

Another note about "Microlams." The ones I have seen have diecuts in them for plumbing and wiring. Use them and only them.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

The manufacturers specs are what u need. There are exceptions to the "no drill" rule. 

You might get a more definitive answer here: http://www.contractortalk.com/index.php


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## acmax (Apr 20, 2009)

martinkulik said:


> I have a question regarding a going through main beam with 1 1/2" pvc. I was told by General contractor I can't make a whole through structural beam, but in the code book it says I could, so I am not sure.
> Thank you.
> Martin


 
Golden Rule*** If your asking if you can, and not sure if you can't .Then Don't.


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## Hawk (May 12, 2009)

You can. Send a request for information (RFI) the PE stamped on your drawings. Do it through your GC to CYA. The PE will be more than happy to answer you, they love that sh.... I work with a structural engineer that gave permission for the electrician to torch a hole in a I-beam so the could run some 3/4 rigid. The saddle would have put them below thow the ceilng.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

I grabbed the book that comes stuck to the laminated beams a while back just incase I had a GC that pushed this issue.You can drill thru them BUT no bigger then a 3/4 inch hole and it must be in the middle 2/3's of the beam from end to end and top to bottom.So if say you have a 12 foot by 12 inch beam you can drill in the middle 4 feet and inbetween 4 and 8 inches from the bottom of the beam.The holes must be 4 times the diameter of the hole apart from one another.
I work on the coast and alot of houses around here are up on pilings because of flood elevation issues,open floor plan,reverse living,open floor plan,lots of windows all this equals to LOTS of laminated and steel beams sometimes you have no choice but to drill them.A good builder will give you povisions so you don't have too but there aren't many good builders ........


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

you can not put holes in beams, it takes away the tensil strength of the steel. you got to go around it. no ifs, ands, or buts about. cant do it. go around. but you can go through the wall or the roof.


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

sparkyboys said:


> you can not put holes in beams, it takes away the tensil strength of the steel. you got to go around it. no ifs, ands, or buts about. cant do it. go around. but you can go through the wall or the roof.


Your right about steel but wrong about wood


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## sparkyboys (May 3, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> Your right about steel but wrong about wood


oh we talking about wood? drill that biatch


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

I always ask the GC for permission, how big and where. Then, I am not responsible for it. If he says no, and there is no other route, I will request a provision be provided for me.

I'm an electrician damnit, not a magician!


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Joefixit2 said:


> I always ask the GC for permission, how big and where. Then, I am not responsible for it. If he says no, and there is no other route, I will request a provision be provided for me.
> 
> I'm an electrician damnit, not a magician!


You 'just ask'? Then you're setting yourself up. All the GC has to say is, "I never told him that!"


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

480sparky said:


> You 'just ask'? Then you're setting yourself up. All the GC has to say is, "I never told him that!"


 
The few GC's I work for are all close enough friends that just wouldn't happen. I'm just a small 2 man shop doing small time residential.

But you are right, it wouldn't hurt to get it in writing from some of them.


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## Joefixit2 (Nov 16, 2007)

By the way, how about the way some of those plumbers hack up the framing!!! I saw one pretty much destroy a floor joist for the bathtub drain, I saw some others cut huge holes in 2x4s for a 2" ABS!!! there was nothing left! Someone didn't plan something right!

NO offense intended if there are any plumbers on this site, I'm sure they would never do something like that Being electricians also, they are just plain smarter.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Plumbers have a lot to deal with it when it comes to making holes in TJI joists. So do we for that matter. For instance, Georgia Pacific TJI's require no holes within the last 12" of the span.


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## Hawk (May 12, 2009)

sparkyboys said:


> you can not put holes in beams, it takes away the tensil strength of the steel. you got to go around it. no ifs, ands, or buts about. cant do it. go around. but you can go through the wall or the roof.


If the steel beam is a W style beam (aka. I-beam) where as the steel and the concrete together is moment connection then answer is no, but, if this is a beam used as part of the structure and is self sustaining, you can. However, the size hole in relation to the beam matters. I have never seen a wooden one penetrated an a new job. I would lean towards not drilling because there is probably more of the building load connected to it, which together makes the beam work as it is engineered. Once modified, it becomes independent and the structure is compromised.


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## Hawk (May 12, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Plumbers have a lot to deal with it when it comes to making holes in TJI joists. So do we for that matter. For instance, Georgia Pacific TJI's require no holes within the last 12" of the span.


I saw a structural engineer tongue lash an electrician for drilling 5/16 hole in bar joist in the center of the span. He made him tap the hole and use harden bolts to do the job.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

Not being a carpenter, I use the term "microlam" for all engineered beams. However, I think "TJI" is the right term for the I-beam type built up beam and "microlam" is the word for laminated, dimensional beams.

The TJIs I have encountered have die-cuts that can be removed for wiring and plumbing. I have never used any other opening when TJIs are involved.

I will not drill "microlams," period. However, I have never encountered a build where I had no other choices.


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## manchestersparky (Mar 25, 2007)

Joefixit2 said:


> The few GC's I work for are all close enough friends that just wouldn't happen. I'm just a small 2 man shop doing small time residential.
> 
> But you are right, it wouldn't hurt to get it in writing from some of them.


How many "friendships" have ended due to money / business???
TOO MANY TO COUNT!!!!

If you want to keep the friendship, Do yourself a favor and keep business and pleasure separate. 
Always get it in writing no matter what the issue. When the ship starts going down it becomes every man for himself !


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## Hawk (May 12, 2009)

manchestersparky said:


> How many "friendships" have ended due to money / business???
> TOO MANY TO COUNT!!!!
> 
> If you want to keep the friendship, Do yourself a favor and keep business and pleasure separate.
> Always get it in writing no matter what the issue. When the ship starts going down it becomes every man for himself !


Engineer and Architectural firms are use to getting RFI's. This is no more than a formal request for information. I think legally they are obligated to answer. It is the only way I know to CYA in the construction business to document questions and answers. An RFI can also be done with the GC. which to CY their A, they will forward on. Always get your answer in writing this way and you will be fine. It is also the same way the code allows the AHJ to give speacial permision. Save your freindships, and go to the next project a little wiser.


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## slowforthecones (Sep 13, 2008)

martinkulik said:


> I have a question regarding a going through main beam with 1 1/2" pvc. I was told by General contractor I can't make a whole through structural beam, but in the code book it says I could, so I am not sure.
> Thank you.
> Martin


 Martin you ain't no electrician (California c-10), your a hack...


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## Larry Fine (Oct 24, 2007)

Joefixit2 said:


> I always ask the GC for permission, how big and where. Then, I am not responsible for it. If he says no, and there is no other route, I will request a provision be provided for me.


I suggest having him make the hole. :thumbsup:



> _I'm an electrician damnit, not a magician!_


"Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a physician!"


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Plumbers have a lot to deal with it when it comes to making holes in TJI joists. So do we for that matter. For instance, Georgia Pacific TJI's require no holes within the last 12" of the span.


Not that I dispute this statement, but now I am a bit curious. If so, then why do they sell them with punch outs that are within the last 12"?


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## Larry Fine (Oct 24, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> Not that I dispute this statement, but now I am a bit curious. If so, then why do they sell them with punch outs that are within the last 12"?


I've only seen punch-outs in the wood I-beams made with 2x3 or 2x4 chords and plywood or particle-board webs.

You can use any factory-made holes you want.


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## plcguy (Jun 23, 2009)

My resi instructor in school said that no matter what never drill a micro lam run to the basment or attic if you have to but never through a micro lam but the tji has me quite curious


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

sparkyboys said:


> you can not put holes in beams, it takes away the tensil strength of the steel. you got to go around it. no ifs, ands, or buts about. cant do it. go around. but you can go through the wall or the roof.


I can not agree here, almost any beam can be penetrated if done properly.

Many times the engineering time will exceed the cost of just going around but rest assured even steel beams can be penetrated.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=1390

check this out :thumbsup:

Click on spec link

Hole locations page 26


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=1390
> 
> check this out :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


 
Thats not micro lam or main beam like the op posted,thats for the TGI beams seems like alot of you are getting the two confused


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

*this should be main beam info*

http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=1392

click on specs

go to third link on page...engineered lumber floor and roof

click open 

page 41.. holes


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## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> I can not agree here, almost any beam can be penetrated if done properly.
> 
> Many times the engineering time will exceed the cost of just going around but rest assured even steel beams can be penetrated.


 im with bob on this one.


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## running dummy (Mar 19, 2009)

i've drilled plenty o lam beams, I was always told center-third for top to bottom and center -third for the span. But I have also heard the center of the two outer thirds for the span also :confused1:

this is residential work, NO TIME FOR THE ENGINEERS!!!!! JUST DRILL IT!!!! :laughing:

o well never failed any inspections


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