# u/c and plug mold question



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

First of all stub out only one nm for each uc light by running your switch leg to a j-box under the sink and pulling off individual nm's for each light. Instead of using flex you could use wiremold under the cab, or run mc cable instead of nm.

Same with the plugmold.

Ask for dimensions to the cabinets being installed and make your own decision on where to stub out.


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## Buck Parrish (May 7, 2009)

I agree, one wire to each light. You should have a cabinet lay out so you know how to place the power outlets. So it's no different with the stub outs for the uc lights. You could drop the wires in the crawl space if one.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

i was thinking a j box down low[under the sink] or up high [above the cab] would be better,,,,theres nothin more enjoyable than a 12in u/c light that has 2 12/2 s stubbed out for it,,, thanks for the tips :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

It's always puzzled me why guys insist on running flex, MC, or BX to UC lights and UC Plugmold. In the eyes of the code, none of those wiring methods affords no more protection than bare NM cable itself. I can hide NM a lot more easily. Spare yourself the aggrivation and put the flex, MC, and BX back on the truck and just run NM cable. If you feel compelled, for some strang reason, to protect it, just put the NM in WM500.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> It's always puzzled me why guys insist on running flex, MC, or BX to UC lights and UC Plugmold.


Some localities have an odd obsession with overprotecting NM cable.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Some localities have an odd obsession with overprotecting NM cable.


Yeah, yeah. I know. Some people think that if you can merely see type NM cable, that means that it will spontaneously erupt into flame or something.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Yeah, yeah. I know. Some people think that if you can merely see type NM cable, that means that it will spontaneously erupt into flame or something.



I actually shorted out NM just by looking at it.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I actually shorted out NM just by looking at it.


Somehow that does not surprise any of us. :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I actually shorted out NM just by looking at it.




I wish I had your skills.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Somehow that does not surprise any of us. :laughing:





Peter D said:


> I wish I had your skills.


It's not me, it is just that damn NM is so unsafe it is a fire waiting to happen.


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## jw0445 (Oct 9, 2009)

Maybe the nm was looking at Bob :laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

jw0445 said:


> Maybe the nm was looking at Bob :laughing:


Never make fun of the Badger. :furious:


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## sparkall (Feb 11, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> First of all stub out only one nm for each uc light by running your switch leg to a j-box under the sink and pulling off individual nm's for each light.


That's a good idea. I've always just used a 4" square (or 4 11/16" if necessary) with a single gang tile ring at the UC light switch location.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Buck Parrish said:


> I agree, one wire to each light. You should have a cabinet lay out so you know how to place the power outlets. So it's no different with the stub outs for the uc lights. You could drop the wires in the crawl space if one.


I wouldn't want to drop the wires to a crawl space for the plugmolds. They need to be gfci protected so you want to have an easy access for those gfis. That is, if were talking kitchen.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

sparkall said:


> That's a good idea. I've always just used a 4" square (or 4 11/16" if necessary) with a single gang tile ring at the UC light switch location.


That could work too. Just depends on what you have going on in the switch location, how many uc lights, box fill etc...


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

zen said:


> i was thinking a j box down low[under the sink] or up high [above the cab] would be better,,,,theres nothin more enjoyable than a 12in u/c light that has 2 12/2 s stubbed out for it,,, thanks for the tips :thumbsup::thumbsup:


Why would you use #12 in the first place?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Why would you use #12 in the first place?



Everybody knows that it's much safer and better to use all #12.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Everybody knows that it's much safer and better to use all #12.


Well yeah. I know it, and you know it but can you believe there are 14 lovers out there. Don't they know what happens to #14 conductors under normal use? Sickos!


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Well yeah. I know it, and you know it but can you believe there are 14 lovers out there. Don't they know what happens to #14 conductors under normal use? Sickos!


Don't even joke about using 14 NM, it is like primacord, it explodes when energized.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Well yeah. I know it, and you know it but can you believe there are 14 lovers out there. Don't they know what happens to #14 conductors under normal use? Sickos!


I get sick that they even sell the stuff.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> I wouldn't want to drop the wires to a crawl space for the plugmolds. They need to be gfci protected so you want to have an easy access for those gfis. That is, if were talking kitchen.


 
If you put them in the crawl you use GFI breakers. Or I do.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Why would you use #12 in the first place?


 mostof our light circuts are on lutron,,,,always in the kitchen


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> If you put them in the crawl you use GFI breakers. Or I do.


gotcha.:thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

zen said:


> mostof our light circuts are on lutron,,,,always in the kitchen


So with a Lutron lighting control system you have to use all #12 for a single load? :001_huh:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Peter D said:


> So with a Lutron lighting control system you have to use all #12 for a single load? :001_huh:


I'm fairly sure that you don't. Maybe i'm f-ing up but i always use 14awg for homeworks and graffik eye etc...


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## Shotcalla39 (Feb 16, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Some localities have an odd obsession with overprotecting NM cable.


 when uguys say NM you mean Romex right


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## JackBoot (Feb 14, 2010)

Shotcalla39 said:


> when uguys say NM you mean Romex right


Yes.

Welcome to the forum.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> First of all stub out only one nm for each uc light by running your switch leg to a j-box under the sink and pulling off individual nm's for each light. Instead of using flex you could use wiremold under the cab, or run mc cable instead of nm.
> 
> Same with the plugmold.
> 
> Ask for dimensions to the cabinets being installed and make your own decision on where to stub out.


 I agree 100 percent. If you put more than one wire for either, your just asking for a "punch in the balls" when you go install it.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> I'm fairly sure that you don't. Maybe i'm f-ing up but i always use 14awg for homeworks and graffik eye etc...


 i guess we do it because of the distance to the panel,,,15,000 sq. ft and incase anything gets added


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

no.12 will hold 1900 watts continuosly


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

zen said:


> no.12 will hold 1900 watts continuosly


I get 9600 watts and our Canadian friends might say 12000 watts.


FWIW 14 AWG copper will 'hold' almost 200 amps continuously before it becomes a fuse.:thumbsup:


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

1900 w/120 v = 15.8 amps and thats 80% of 20 therefore 1900 w is max on a 20 amp cicut when im only allowed 80 % for continuis duty.
/


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

I thought it was 1920 watts?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

zen said:


> 1900 w/120 v = 15.8 amps and thats 80% of 20 therefore 1900 w is max on a 20 amp cicut when im only allowed 80 % for continuis duty.
> /


Why would dwelling unit kitchen equipment be continuous duty?


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

I have alot of U/C lights in my kitchen, so I daisy chained them all together. What method I used is NOT what I'm recommending for others, because it is not to Code, just what I did in my own kitchen.

I bought a 50' white 14-3 extension cord and some rubber grommets. I drilled the lights for the grommets and each cabinet for the cord. I stapled the cord to the underside of the cabinets and connected the lights together. Looks great, even when looking up at the wiring.






Then I had Peter make the connections...


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Why would dwelling unit kitchen equipment be continuous duty?


 the u/c lights are often on more than 3 hours


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

zen said:


> the u/c lights are often on more than 3 hours


So all lighting circuits in dwellings could be called continuous. But they don't comprise the maximum load, they're just left on.


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## Elec Tek (Jan 28, 2008)

Why not just put your junction behind the fridge instead of the crawl or under the sink.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know, I'm not a fan of putting a j-box behind a fridge, besides the receptacle for the fridge.


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## egads (Sep 1, 2009)

If you put it behind the fridge, you cannot use those home runs for a low voltage conversion later. There is no room for a transformer.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

my recommendation would be to use 14 awg UF to the back yard and bury the UC lighting j-boxes - 

No really I cant understand the reasoning behind not being able to use a 18 awg SJOW in this particular application. But, like others have said NM bursts into flames if exposed.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Sorry man, UCL's and the Plugmold, 

single hits of 12/2 14/2 MC from a steel Jbox are the only way to go.

It is almost impossible to bring two MC's via a duplex connector into plugmold, done it, have less hair from it. 

They don't make a duplex connector for that 3/8 ko on the low profile UCL's that I have seen.

I still like using flex sleeved on romex everywhere else though.​


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> I still like using flex sleeved on romex everywhere else though.



Oh no, we're not back to this nonsense again?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Oh no, we're not back to this nonsense again?


Why is that nonsense?


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Why is that nonsense?


Is someone with an axe or a chainsaw going to damage romex that's mounted under a cabinet? :blink:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Is someone with an axe or a chainsaw going to damage romex that's mounted under a cabinet? :blink:


An electric can opener could, conceivably, present a hazard.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Is someone with an axe or a chainsaw going to damage romex that's mounted under a cabinet? :blink:


Probably not, but an Asian chef hacking away at lemongrass with his cleaver upside down might.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Exposed and under 8'.

You know the drill.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Exposed and under 8'.
> 
> You know the drill.


No I do not 'know the drill'.

Could you post the code section?


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> No I do not 'know the drill'.
> 
> Could you post the code section?


I was hoping for someone to help clear this up. I've rarely installed exposed romex on it's own under cab.

I guess 334.15(B) would be what i would refer to, but I suppose it's up to interpretation.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> I was hoping for someone to help clear this up. I've rarely installed exposed romex on it's own under cab.
> 
> I guess 334.15(B) would be what i would refer to, but I suppose it's up to interpretation.


bump.


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## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

nolabama said:


> An electric can opener could, conceivably, present a hazard.


To fingers maybe.


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