# Pass or fail



## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

how do you reach that top panel


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

240.24(a)

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> 240.24(a)


OK


> *240.24 Location in or on Premises.
> (A) Accessibility. *Overcurrent devices shall be readily accessible
> and shall be installed so that the center of the grip
> of the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker,
> ...



I don't see any overcurrent devices in my pictures. :no:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

How high is the top part of the panel. Is that a single panel? What is it if there are no ocpd in it?


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Has that got some sort of lighting controls in it?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

nrp3 said:


> Has that got some sort of lighting controls in it?


Must be something like that as the pipes don't look big enough to even feed that animal.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Here is one.





> 404.8 Accessibility and Grouping.
> (A) Location. All switches and circuit breakers used as
> switches shall be located so that they may be operated from
> a readily accessible place. They shall be installed such that
> ...


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I think the building or fire inspection would fail that not the electrical inspector.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

BBQ said:


> I don't see any overcurrent devices in my pictures. :no:


 Well, without my x-ray glasses it sure looks like a normal panelboard. 

...But if that was true it wouldn't give you reason to bust my chops. So, what is that stupid thing? :wallbash:

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> How high is the top part of the panel. Is that a single panel? What is it if there are no ocpd in it?


The top section has no interior at all, it is just a cabinet with a door on it.

It is being used as a raceway, many MC cables enter the top rear of the upper cabinet.

The 1.25" coming in the top is a 100 amp feeder supplying the panelboard in the bottom cabinet. 



Dennis Alwon said:


> I think the building or fire inspection would fail that not the electrical inspector.


This in the middle of Boston, I doubt a fire inspector will ever see it.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> Well, without my x-ray glasses it sure looks like a normal panelboard.



When I saw it I assumed just like you did. :laughing:


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Thats pretty creative. Got pictures of the inside? Why would someone go that route, other that it probably looks a bit neater than a bunch of Mc going down the wall?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

An electrical inspector can fail it based on 110.26(B)


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

nrp3 said:


> Thats pretty creative. Got pictures of the inside? Why would someone go that route, other that it probably looks a bit neater than a bunch of Mc going down the wall?


No pictures and I am not sure. I know sometimes we end up with extra cabinets and covers on large jobs so if had an extra one on the job I might use it like that. 



Dennis Alwon said:


> An electrical inspector can fail it based on 110.26(B)


That kind of goes without saying but I am sure the room was not full of junk when it was inspected.

As far as the Red Fire Alarm junction cabinet, that is not actually blocked by the shelf, there is a doorway between the shelf and the fire alarm boxes.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BBQ said:


> That kind of goes without saying but I am sure the room was not full of junk when it was inspected.



Well the question was pass or fail. I have to assume it was as pictured since I am only given that picture as info. Given what is there I say fail. Otherwise I have to assume the rest is compliant.

It does seem that the 1 1/4" pipe is not supported within 3' but I think that would be a bogus call.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I have to assume it was as pictured since I am only given that picture as info. Given what is there I say fail.


From the OP



BBQ said:


> Remove all the junk stored here as it would have been empty when it was inspected.


Now if we turn the camera around ... :laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> From the OP
> 
> 
> 
> Now if we turn the camera around ... :laughing:


Would be nice to bag those rubber made carts looks like they don't want them any more..:thumbup:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Would be nice to bag those rubber made carts looks like they don't want them any more..:thumbup:


Yeah, those are good ones for construction sites but a little wide for storage in the van.

I have a narrow one I keep in the van.


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## jhall.sparky (Jun 14, 2011)

............:whistling2: iwouldn't stress it they didnt have a ladder so they left a chair no biggie........................:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Yeah, those are good ones for construction sites but a little wide for storage in the van.
> 
> I have a narrow one I keep in the van.


We need to invent a cart like that ,that you can break down like a fold up table


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

I have a Rubbermaid Janitors cart. The kind that holds a mop bucket in front. 
You can load up 6 spools of wire, a ladder hooks in front were the bucket would go. You have 3 shelfs for parts & tools. It turns on a dime and the handle folds up out of the way. <that's were the garbage sack would go>
Been using it for years.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I like it, no need do mess around strapping everything down the wall. Plus it's different, I like that most.


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## noarcflash (Sep 14, 2011)

commerical building, main service and 4 subpanels on the wall. what is the min clearance distance needed in front of each panel? where as no junk or tables and chairs can be kept in front of the electrical panels ?

I have a situation where the boss wants to make a lunch area where all the electrical panels are. So I need to show a code reference stating the min clearance.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

noarcflash said:


> commerical building, main service and 4 subpanels on the wall. what is the min clearance distance needed in front of each panel? where as no junk or tables and chairs can be kept in front of the electrical panels ?
> 
> I have a situation where the boss wants to make a lunch area where all the electrical panels are. So I need to show a code reference stating the min clearance.


Look at 110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment..


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

working clearance is probably the most violated article in the good book

yet most of the time it's not violated by the electrician, it's violated by others utilizing the space for storage, or other trades running their installs where they should not be

so, _who _gets written up would be the Q here?

mitigating it should be the responsibility of the perpetrator, yet they may simply be uninformed , and further not recognize the n.e.c. as applicable to _them_

now most of you would say, gee, call the _ahj_. but if there is none, it's you the installer having to wrong sorts with this _'ignorance of the NEC is not an excuse' _line_ ,_ which really does take a level of diplomacy seeing as almost everyone 'cept us sparky's choose to remain so

~CS~


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> working clearance is probably the most violated article in the good book
> 
> yet most of the time it's not violated by the electrician, it's violated by others utilizing the space for storage, or other trades running their installs where they should not be
> 
> ...


It sure is..:laughing:


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

chicken steve said:


> now most of you would say, gee, call the _ahj_.


Those of us that are realistic have just accepted the fact people pile crap up in electrical rooms.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

chicken steve said:


> now most of you would say, gee, call the _ahj_. but if there is none, it's you the installer having to wrong sorts with this _'ignorance of the NEC is not an excuse' _line_ ,_ which really does take a level of diplomacy seeing as almost everyone 'cept us sparky's choose to remain so


If I tried to tell this customer, _'You have to clean out this room'_ they would laugh and just get another EC to do the work.

Not my problem, I clean a space for me to work when I have to and move on.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Jan 27, 2009)

I gotta snap pics of the electrical room in this small office building I do maintenance on, the place was built less than 10 years ago but they have already managed to cram 20 years of junk in there.


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## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

You want results? Tip off their insurance company. They can wreck havoc with the building owners about fire safety and hazards, etc.

A letter from them informing them about an impending 100% surcharge, or cancellation of the policy can make those rooms get cleaned up quick!!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

kbsparky said:


> You want results? Tip off their insurance company. They can wreck havoc with the building owners about fire safety and hazards, etc.
> 
> A letter from them informing them about an impending 100% surcharge, or cancellation of the policy can make those rooms get cleaned up quick!!



That will do it...:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


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## Meadow (Jan 14, 2011)

Is that inside of a grocery store? Ive seen worse in walmarts.


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## AnthonyClifton (Sep 14, 2011)

That's like one of those trick questions. All I could think was 6"7".


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> That will do it...:laughing::thumbup::laughing:


good _grief_, never even thought of that

methinks they _own_ everything out to pluto.....

~CS~


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## RICK BOYD (Mar 10, 2008)

*fail*

fail


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

RICK BOYD said:


> fail


Do you have a code section in mind?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

kbsparky said:


> You want results? Tip off their insurance company. They can wreck havoc with the building owners about fire safety and hazards, etc.
> 
> A letter from them informing them about an impending 100% surcharge, or cancellation of the policy can make those rooms get cleaned up quick!!


How would you go about figuring out what insurance company they used? Go up to the manager and ask?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

erics37 said:


> How would you go about figuring out what insurance company they used? Go up to the manager and ask?


_Excuse me, could I get the name, policy number and contact info for your insurance company so I can rat you out?_


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

BBQ said:


> _Excuse me, could I get the name, policy number and contact info for your insurance company so I can rat you out?_


The first thing if someone done that they will be booted to the nearest sortie or porte no question asked unless you have gall to read the fire alarm inspection chart they will genrally named the insurance companine on it so you can not miss it in most case I have ran into.

( a addtional tip if this building have elevator in there check the inspection tag or state issue permit they will have pretty good listing in there )

Merci,
Marc


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