# Sticky  Ongoing union discussion - Was "What's you local"



## norcalbay

Local 595 Dublin,CA. I didn't get sworn in until the 3rd bracket (beginning of second year)


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## bulldog1770

Thomp said:


> He could have taken a maintenance electrician job. Either way welcome to the forum!


*I took a Electrical Estimator Position.. :thumbsup: We can take a maintenance job for a UNION shop only...*


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## brian john

You can take a job for anybody you want, but there are penalties.

I have worked with several DIE HARD union members, FIGHT FOR THE BROTHERHOOD, these guys moved into management at a large contractors and what a bunch of hard asses they became. Treating the men poorly. I never understand how seemingly good people can flip so drastically.


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## bulldog1770

brian john said:


> You can take a job for anybody you want, but there are penalties.
> 
> I have worked with several DIE HARD union members, FIGHT FOR THE BROTHERHOOD, these guys moved into management at a large contractors and what a bunch of hard asses the became. Treating the men poorly. I never understand how seemingly good people can flip so drastically.


 
*Well long story short----I got F&*Ked by the BA and the foreman running the last job I was on---My wife was severely injured, having to take her to specialists during the week, meant taken days off---going from running jobs, to showing up and never missing anytime, I sat the Foreman down and told him my situation---He told me, to bring him a doctors note everytime, I go to Doc--I said sure, no problem, after a couple days--BA, came on job and said I am costing the hall, H&W Money, and I should take a lay-off, and here is the kicker---He stated he did not want to hear my "Sad Story" about my wife..... So, funny how after I told him to go F&^K himself, I was "laid-off"..... So, being the man that I am--I took a job at a NON UNION shop, as a Estimator... Currently, I am taken a $8 Million school project from local 743....*  *Wonder why people get pissed? So, now I am taken 18,000 man hours from the H&W fund!!!!:thumbsup:*


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## bulldog1770

no penalties here...


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## bulldog1770

brian john said:


> You can take a job for anybody you want, but there are penalties.
> 
> I have worked with several DIE HARD union members, FIGHT FOR THE BROTHERHOOD, these guys moved into management at a large contractors and what a bunch of hard asses the became. Treating the men poorly. I never understand how seemingly good people can flip so drastically.


 
They were probably no good to begin with....


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## brian john

> They were probably no good to begin with....


I know. but I just can not understand how any body F's with another man. I mean there are times when I like to kick the crap out of a guy. But to mess with guys on regular basis just because you a small minded D-head. I do not get it.


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## bulldog1770

Its the same everywhere--- in construction and in a office

Engineers and architects are as small minded as any BA, I've known...:jester:

Instead of people getting better as they grow, most forget what is RIGHT in this world....


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## brian john

I have worked for some excellent people and some S-bags, I always try to treat people like I always wanted to be treated.

Treat them fairly.
Give them a fair chance.
Pay them well with decent bennies.
Never yell at them.
Never give them something to do I would not do myself.
Safe vehicles and working conditions.
Good tools, what ever they feel they need.

BUT I WANT good quality work, 8-4-8, no lying, no bull ****. If you are late TELL ME, not Oh I am just around the corner when in actuality you are 40 minutes away.


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## Nodoggie

L.U. 11--lotsa guys traveling to 440 these days to stay employed.

L.U. 474--you guys still finished those power plants? any work left?

L.U. 3--what's up with the new "memorial" towers? you guys ever gonna man up?


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## MechanicalDVR

Nodoggie said:


> L.U. 11--lotsa guys traveling to 440 these days to stay employed.
> 
> L.U. 474--you guys still finished those power plants? any work left?
> 
> L.U. 3--what's up with the new "memorial" towers? you guys ever gonna man up?


 
California, worrying about local 3 manning up......you from San Franfairy area?


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## Zenerohmma

Nodoggie said:


> L.U. 11--lotsa guys traveling to 440 these days to stay employed.


 
I heard that 440 was hurting and many apprentices from that local were going to Vegas....


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## Nodoggie

MechanicalDVR said:


> California, worrying about local 3 manning up......you from San Franfairy area?


 
lol. nah, semi. just curious about jobs manning up in other parts of the country.



Zenerohmma said:


> I heard that 440 was hurting and many apprentices from that local were going to Vegas....


True. That can be said about all parts of cali...the country, in fact. I was in Vegas not too long ago. The license plates at the hall in the morning were from Delaware, Iowa, Michigan, you name it. But the recession-proof bubble has already popped in Vegas, too. A $4 billion project just got put on hold, and Center City isn't seeing much O.T. The downtrend really started around last Christmas in Vegas.


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## Zenerohmma

I have a friend who works in Local 11 as an apprentice and he says that they are not taking many apprentices right now but many aprprentices in the local are working.

I know there is alot of construction going on in LA right now. So it could be a decent local to be a member of right now.

From what I heard it is not easy to get into.


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## Nodoggie

it's huge. they have something like 7 halls because it's so spread out.


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## Panic661

Zenerohmma said:


> I heard that 440 was hurting and many apprentices from that local were going to Vegas....


Beleive thats San Bernadino? Yea, 38 apprentices out of work, they are sending apprenti to Vegas. 

Bakersfield is doing well but starting to slow up, my girlfriends dad (my instructor) is saying in January we'll be pretty slow.. 

Oh ya, I'm a 428 apprentice.. lol.. 

We were hiring quite a bit and just stopped due to things slowing up..


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## unionwirewoman

brian john said:


> You complained about out of towners in your jurisdiction, yet you say the best was when your local traveled??????
> 
> and you are a 3rd year apprentice yet you complain about new comers????


Is it just me or do people form a habit of only reading HALF of a post ?
To answer your question , I do believe you're talking about the thread of me saying NON-LICENSED out of state workers coming in and trying to work....am I correct ? I DO NOT complain about travelers coming into our state as long as they are MONTANA STATE LICENSED . Which is a requirement to do electrical work in the STATE OF MONTANA . If you would have read the post I did on this thread...you would have also read that I stated that's what I was told by most of the good journeymen who have been in my local for 15+ years . Please read before you try to bash my integrity . I don't type just to see myself type..... I say things that are true to the best of my knowledge . As far as being a 3rd year...... do you think I just spout things off ? I listen , observe , and get pis#ed when I have to teach a so called (organized) JW how to wire up a switch or bend conduit . I'm all for helping out....but it only goes so far .


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## ibewwolf

bulldog1770 said:


> *Well long story short----I got F&*Ked by the BA and the foreman running the last job I was on---My wife was severely injured, having to take her to specialists during the week, meant taken days off---going from running jobs, to showing up and never missing anytime, I sat the Foreman down and told him my situation---He told me, to bring him a doctors note everytime, I go to Doc--I said sure, no problem, after a couple days--BA, came on job and said I am costing the hall, H&W Money, and I should take a lay-off, and here is the kicker---He stated he did not want to hear my "Sad Story" about my wife..... So, funny how after I told him to go F&^K himself, I was "laid-off"..... So, being the man that I am--I took a job at a NON UNION shop, as a Estimator... Currently, I am taken a $8 Million school project from local 743....*  *Wonder why people get pissed? So, now I am taken 18,000 man hours from the H&W fund!!!!:thumbsup:*


Bulldog, I'm new to this site and I don't quite understand something. Your "location" says you are in New York. So how would you be taking H&W hours from local 743? Thanks for a reply.


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## oldman

MichiganElectrician said:


> IBEW Local 58 Detroit, MI
> 
> We are all electricians trying to make a living.
> 
> Maybe we should try to stick together instead of fighting each other.
> 
> Just a thought.


well said...remember, labor and contractors both need eachother and should be on the same team...the common goal is to get the customer to open their pocketbooks...


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## ibewwolf

I have a different take on it oldman.

The common goal is to get the NON-UNION CONTRACTORS to open their pocketbooks so that ALL construction electricians can make a decent living.:thumbup:


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## oldman

ibewwolf said:


> I have a different take on it oldman.
> 
> The common goal is to get the NON-UNION CONTRACTORS to open their pocketbooks so that ALL construction electricians can make a decent living.:thumbup:


then your goal should ultimately be to get the non-union contractors customers to open their pocketbooks and to also give the non-union contractors incentive to go union...

however, the ideas put forth by some visitors today, are a big part of the reason that some contractors hesitate/refuse to go union...

people will tend to do things that benefit them...you went union for higher wages, better benefits, etc...things that benefit you...

if you want contractors to become signatory and hire you, show them how it benefits them...

to many guys/gals in the trade (Kons, rats, shoppies, hallies) are, and always will be, myopic...

change hearts and minds, and actions will follow...


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## MichiganElectrician

oldman said:


> well said...remember, labor and contractors both need eachother and should be on the same team...the common goal is to get the customer to open their pocketbooks...


I agree oldman,

I've always wanted to see the contractors make money. I'm happy with the crumbs.

Also understand all too well about the customer. Without them we have nothing to talk about.


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## oldman

MichiganElectrician said:


> I agree oldman,
> 
> I've always wanted to see the contractors make money. I'm happy with the crumbs.
> 
> Also understand all too well about the customer. Without them we have nothing to talk about.


add to that, education of the electrician, or lack thereof...i've seen countless union men get their license and go out on their own....only to bill the customer less than their total package was when they were working for someone else...for some reason, they were worth $50 in the pocket working for someone else (plus benefits, pension, annuity, etc)...but don't feel worth that much when they go on their own...so they bill the customer $60/hr...and after paying all their overhead and other costs, pay themselves $20/hr... non-union guys who go out on their own are just as bad, if not worse...

that would raise the bar dramatically...


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## MichiganElectrician

oldman said:


> add to that, education of the electrician, or lack thereof...i've seen countless union men get their license and go out on their own....only to bill the customer less than their total package was when they were working for someone else...for some reason, they were worth $50 in the pocket working for someone else (plus benefits, pension, annuity, etc)...but don't feel worth that much when they go on their own...so they bill the customer $60/hr...and after paying all their overhead and other costs, pay themselves $20/hr... non-union guys who go out on their own are just as bad, if not worse...
> 
> that would raise the bar dramatically...


That's a very good point you bring up OldMan.

I've never understood why anyone with the talent and mechanical aptitude it takes to be a good JIW(Journeyman Inside Wireman), would ever undercut himself in a bid for work.

"All we have to sell is our labor", said an old wise JIW that I was fortunate enough to have worked under during my apprenticeship.

The pride that a true IBEW Electrician and brother feels cannot be measured. It can only be observed and admired by the management that runs most of the industrial and large commercial jobs that are ongoing in this great country of ours.

We can hang together or we will surely hang apart!:rockon:


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## oldman

MichiganElectrician said:


> That's a very good point you bring up OldMan.
> 
> I've never understood why anyone with the talent and mechanical aptitude it takes to be a good JIW(Journeyman Inside Wireman), would ever undercut himself in a bid for work.
> 
> "All we have to sell is our labor", said an old wise JIW that I was fortunate enough to have worked under during my apprenticeship.
> 
> The pride that a true IBEW Electrician and brother feels cannot be measured. It can only be observed and admired by the management that runs most of the industrial and large commercial jobs that are ongoing in this great country of ours.
> 
> We can hang together or we will surely hang apart!:rockon:


actually, the thought that 'all you have to sell is our labor' is part of the problem...what you really are selling is your knowledge, experience and abilities...labor is cheap...the other stuff is expensive...the physical act of electrical work can be done by a monkey...the knowing when, where, how and why is what's worth money...

i've always lived by the saying of a JW from local 3, that my father was taught when he was an apprentice, and he taught me...

"you don't pay me for what I do, you pay me for what I know"

why do you think guys go out on their own and whore themselves for pennies on the dollar?


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## nap

oldman said:


> then your goal should ultimately be to get the non-union contractors customers to open their pocketbooks and to also give the non-union contractors incentive to go union...
> 
> however, the ideas put forth by some visitors today, are a big part of the reason that some contractors hesitate/refuse to go union...
> 
> people will tend to do things that benefit them...you went union for higher wages, better benefits, etc...things that benefit you...
> 
> if you want contractors to become signatory and hire you, show them how it benefits them...
> 
> to many guys/gals in the trade (Kons, rats, shoppies, hallies) are, and always will be, myopic...
> 
> change hearts and minds, and actions will follow...


why do you keep saying things like this oldman? We bid for jobs just like the non-union shops do. In fact, we bid _against_ the non-union shops. There are a few places I know that will accept union only bids (another arguing point altogether. they do this because they believe it is in their best interest, and it typically is) but in general, we don;t get to bid higher and get accepted because we are union. Why do you folks keep saying we need to convince the customer to spend more so you can be union? We don;t ask for that. We provide a value that apparently the non-union shops have trouble providing, even with their lower wages/bene packages.

and to the reasons to go union:

a ready supply of skilled labor that understands the ebb and flow of work and have set up a situation where we understand layoffs and returning to the hall. 

a work force that (in my opinion) is provided the best training provided by any source for this trade

a work force that understands that you have to make money so we can make money.

a workforce that knows the work rules when they show up for the job, just like the EC knows the rules. It makes it easier for both of us.

a source to grieve problems for both sides

a workforce that doesn't work slow (I know, it does happen with some electricians with a poor moral and ethical base) just because they know when this work is done, layoff is tomorrow.

need more or is that enough?


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## BryanMD

nap said:


> ... and to the reasons to go union:
> ... need more or is that enough?


The problems (from both ends) are not when the model is operating as designed and intended to. It works (or works well enough) that it is emulated by the more enlightened merit shops. With few exceptions these have very good apprentice and JM training, and safety, and pay wages and benefits equal to and often better than PW or the LU contract. They have to, right? 

A large number of merit shop electricians are genuinely happy with that arrangement. They *like* having that continuing relationship with one EC and the GC's, PM's and other trades that show up on their jobs. 

The smaller EC's who don't (can't really) offer any benefits even if they can pay decent enough wages are another discussion and (individually at least) are not a threat to any of the larger EC's - merit or union. If anything, having these guys around as an example of how NOT to operate may be the best promotion effort out there to mitivate GC's and owners to use the well run EC's (again union -or- merit).

If the goal is truly about good wages, benefits and security of those for electrical workers (as opposed to f'rinstance H&W donations) ...


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## oldman

oldman said:


> then your goal should ultimately be to get the non-union contractors customers to open their pocketbooks and to also give the non-union contractors incentive to go union...
> 
> however, the ideas put forth by some visitors today, are a big part of the reason that some contractors hesitate/refuse to go union...


in the past 6 months we have bid projects both open and prevailing wage/union scale...prices have been about 25% higher for our PW scale..granted we haven't changed the man hours, so it's simply the higher costs...and in the past 6 months these projects (which we didn't get any of) were for developers who shuddered at the thought of using union labor... (ftr- we can pass union projects off to a friends shop should the opportunity arise right now)

these projects included a TI of 50,000 sq feet of medical space (doctors offices, dental offices, etc)

retail fitout in a mall (one of the few places you will still have union only bids around here are malls - and they are getting away from it)

10,000 sq foot dialysis clinic...

amongst other projects...the exact reasons the developers didn't want to do it union, i don't know...i have theories, just like you...but the facts are not known....



oldman said:


> people will tend to do things that benefit them...you went union for higher wages, better benefits, etc...things that benefit you...
> 
> if you want contractors to become signatory and hire you, show them how it benefits them...





nap said:


> why do you keep saying things like this oldman?


i say things like this to facilitate discussions of ideas and get other viewpoints out there like 



nap said:


> and to the reasons to go union:
> 
> a ready supply of skilled labor that understands the ebb and flow of work and have set up a situation where we understand layoffs and returning to the hall.
> 
> a work force that (in my opinion) is provided the best training provided by any source for this trade
> 
> a work force that understands that you have to make money so we can make money.
> 
> a workforce that knows the work rules when they show up for the job, just like the EC knows the rules. It makes it easier for both of us.
> 
> a source to grieve problems for both sides
> 
> a workforce that doesn't work slow (I know, it does happen with some electricians with a poor moral and ethical base) just because they know when this work is done, layoff is tomorrow.
> 
> need more or is that enough?





oldman said:


> to many guys/gals in the trade (Kons, rats, shoppies, hallies) are, and always will be, myopic...
> 
> change hearts and minds, and actions will follow...





nap said:


> We bid for jobs just like the non-union shops do. In fact, we bid _against_ the non-union shops. There are a few places I know that will accept union only bids (another arguing point altogether. they do this because they believe it is in their best interest, and it typically is) but in general, we don;t get to bid higher and get accepted because we are union. Why do you folks keep saying we need to convince the customer to spend more so you can be union? We don;t ask for that. We provide a value that apparently the non-union shops have trouble providing, even with their lower wages/bene packages.


in NJ there is not much that is bid both union and non...save government work which is prevailing wage (and actually beneficial to do union)

large work (i mean LARGE work) is owned by the unions...not too many open shops in NJ large enough to man up a 100 man commercial/industrial project (i honestly don't know of any - though Celtic will likely come across with one or more)....

however, there are some extremely LARGE open shops around the country...Town & Country/Faith Technologies out of Wisconsin comes to mind...How did they manage to become a $200mil/yr open shop? there are others as well..

and lastly, don't take what i write as what i think...these discussions/debates are good for the general readership of this site...there are more people reading than interacting...and maybe giving them this information will help them decide what path they wish to follow in their life...


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## Control Freak

oldman I have been watching your posts for a while and i find you to be a real ballbuster! your comments do "facilitate" (in your own words) a "stimulating" discussion. LOL............Keep it up. ruffle as many feathers as you can and things will stay interesting!!!!!!!


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## retired 7373

brian john said:


> You can take a job for anybody you want, but there are penalties.
> 
> I have worked with several DIE HARD union members, FIGHT FOR THE BROTHERHOOD, these guys moved into management at a large contractors and what a bunch of hard asses they became. Treating the men poorly. I never understand how seemingly good people can flip so drastically.


 

Brian
Its called power. I have always said many foreman would take a cut in pay to be foreman just to have the power and position


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## Thomp

Any members from LU 59?


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## BDB

nap said:


> and to the reasons to go union:
> 
> a ready supply of skilled labor


This is not always true, I have turned down bidding some jobs for the simple reason, The hall can not supply the men.


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## westernexplorer

IBEW Local #136, Birmingham, Alabama. 

There are bad people everywhere. I treat people with respect and treat them like an adult. If they screw me, then I drop the hammer. However, I have to live with myself and treating someone like a disposable razor is not good for anyone, it says more about you, than the person getting the shaft. I have run large electrical jobs and brought them in, on time and under budget, without treating the men like crap. The key is to start with good men, who know a good deal when they have one, and they will give you 8-4-8 and keep it straight. When I have paid a guy an hour or two here and there for a doctor's appointment or let him go an hour early to pick up his kid from school, he was the hardest working guy on the job, the next week.....


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## heywood

guess this thread is pretty much dead...

l.u. 46 seattle, 3rd year apprentice but only 3k hrs. so far due to 3 month injury loss (not L&I, thank you) then layoff.

around 700 on the books in the hall and 150 in the jatc...bleak picture; I'll be starting my 3rd year classes in December and not sure when I'll ever get my next pay raise at 3500 hrs. only worked 4 months so far in 2009...

the books have been taking 4-5 months to move thru but my last call was only 4 months (foreman/journeyman had no clue why they would lay me off; was making 55% JW rate and was running my own project every day with almost no supervision).

If this is what union work is then I'm probably just going to get my admin's license and go out on my own when out of work; not being allowed to work or find employment and collecting less than subsistence from the govt. is not my idear of living.


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## brian john

heywood: 

What do you mean you are not allowed to find work?

Laid off I'd find something.


I cannot speak for your area but in the other Washington layoff are rare, even in slow times there is government work.

Was on the news yesterday the largest government building project since the Pentagon broke ground on Friday. Homeland Security at the old nut hut St. Elizabeth.


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## heywood

brian john said:


> heywood:
> I cannot speak for your area but in the other Washington layoff are rare, even in slow times there is government work.
> 
> Was on the news yesterday the largest government building project since the Pentagon broke ground on Friday. Homeland Security at the old nut hut St. Elizabeth.


strangely enough, even with around a dozen cranes in the sky around here there still isn't any work; and as far as government projects in the Seattle area most of that is in Bremerton/Bangor and it never seems to happen that those projects get off the ground...guys have been holding their breath for 1.5 years for those projects to man up.


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## brian john

heywood said:


> strangely enough, even with around a dozen cranes in the sky around here there still isn't any work; and as far as government projects in the Seattle area most of that is in Bremerton/Bangor and it never seems to happen that those projects get off the ground...guys have been holding their breath for 1.5 years for those projects to man up.


 
What about finding your own job?


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## heywood

well...I could either collect unemployment or go hunting for a job for a few months...I'm not a JW, so I can't just go out with my own license and get work and the work picture isn't exactly rosy around here besides construction.


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## brian john

heywood said:


> well...I could either collect unemployment or go hunting for a job for a few months...I'm not a JW, so I can't just go out with my own license and get work and the work picture isn't exactly rosy around here besides construction.


 
I would think not working would be depressing. In our last recession, I found a Davis Bacon job, I knew friends that worked two jobs others took jobs in facility management. Two things sitting around is not good mentally and time goes faster if you are working.


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## Brother Noah1

BDB said:


> This is not always true, I have turned down bidding some jobs for the simple reason, The hall can not supply the men.


 I do not understand your post. The last couple of years if there was even word of work in a said local their hall would start receiving Brothers and Sisters from around the country in search of work unless there was word of an abusive contractor. With unemployment at record highs in construction I would bid your jobs and they will come.


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## shockme123

In Newfoundland IBEW Local 2330 is the crappiest local ever. That's why no one signs up unless they want to work only 6 weeks a year. Thumbs down for that local :no:


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## Rob Zombie

*I.B.E.W. for life.*

L.U. 551 Santa Rosa, California. 4th year apentice, 12 year electrician. I worked in Seattle non-union for 8 years and joined the union when I moved to California.


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## 103mh08

103 Boston, MA


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## wy2ak

1547 Alaska baby!

Live off halibut, salmon, moose, caribou, dall sheep and Alaskan Amber all year!

Love it!


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## al13nw4r3LC76

wy2ak said:


> 1547 Alaska baby!
> 
> Live off halibut, salmon, moose, caribou, dall sheep and Alaskan Amber all year!
> 
> Love it!


Good to see you hear brother! How's the work in Alaska at the moment? Keeping busy?


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## brian john

Rob Zombie said:


> L.U. 551 Santa Rosa, California. 4th year apentice, 12 year electrician. I worked in Seattle non-union for 8 years and joined the union when I moved to California.


 
Only way this would float is if they PAID you above the scale for apprentices. 

You were in the trade 8 years and became an apprentice. I surely would not be BRAGGING on this local and their ignorant use of your time.

* That is an INSULT to any decent working man*.


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## nomad

wy2ak said:


> 1547 Alaska baby!
> 
> Live off halibut, salmon, moose, caribou, dall sheep and Alaskan Amber all year!
> 
> Love it!


 
Alaskan Amber is a great beer and I can watch the dall sheep out of the front window here on the mountainside we face here in Eagle River. Looking forward to salmon and halibut fishing this summer...if I have the time!

Are you a JW?


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## wy2ak

nomad,
Yes I'm a JW....Are you working? Heck we might work for the same company. I live in ER also.


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## thenazz

ibew local 300 vermont


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## jimmyk

Local 728 sunny south Florida..

But hot as hell in the summer.


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## kwarrior88

Local 1 St. Louis


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## RIVETER

Rob Zombie said:


> L.U. 551 Santa Rosa, California. 4th year apentice, 12 year electrician. I worked in Seattle non-union for 8 years and joined the union when I moved to California.


Good for you. In your estimation, what is the most obvious difference between working union...or non?


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## brian john

RIVETER said:


> Good for you. In your estimation, what is the most obvious difference between working union...or non?


8 years and the union says it is worth nothing. I’d have to say that union stinks and I’d never do what he did, unless the compensation was made worth while.

I think this is what makes many say unions need to reform.


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## RIVETER

brian john said:


> 8 years and the union says it is worth nothing. I’d have to say that union stinks and I’d never do what he did, unless the compensation was made worth while.
> 
> I think this is what makes many say unions need to reform.


I understand what you are saying but the bottom line is that a great deal of qualified workers don't have the substantive paperwork to prove that they are what they are. That being the case I just think that it takes a big person to go back to a lower level in order to possibly elevate himself.


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## brian john

RIVETER said:


> I understand what you are saying but the bottom line is that a great deal of qualified workers don't have the substantive paperwork to prove that they are what they are. That being the case I just think that it takes a big person to go back to a lower level in order to possibly elevate himself.


And if the union officials in that local are soooooo stupid they can not interview and figure out qualifications, they might need to go back to carrying tools, because they are in the wrong professions.


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## RIVETER

brian john said:


> And if the union officials in that local are soooooo stupid they can not interview and figure out qualifications, they might need to go back to carrying tools, because they are in the wrong professions.


Again, I am aligned with you on this. However, these days there are so many rules and regulations to satisfy that you have to pick a protocol for hiring and stick with it.


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## Skinnyelectrician

brian john said:


> Only way this would float is if they PAID you above the scale for apprentices.
> 
> You were in the trade 8 years and became an apprentice. I surely would not be BRAGGING on this local and their ignorant use of your time.
> 
> * That is an INSULT to any decent working man*.



Eh, I did something similar. I was an electrician for 5 years, open shop,(plus a year of school) and "Oed" in to the local back down to 1st year apprentice. Except I was credited hours towards the program and was started at 50% of the rate, which was almost as much as what the majority of open-shop mechanics make in my area. ****, I went from a crummy rental in a crummy part or town, to buying my first house in a middle class neighborhood on apprentice wages.

Was it annoying being bossed around by guys who I felt were my inferior? Sure, but it didn't take long to establish myself. I gained a ton out of the program, basically because I already had a background in the field.

Why did I do it? The pay off. At 6th period apprentice rate, I was making $35 per hour plus benefits for me and my family, and a kick ass pension. That's at last year apprentice scale. That package would be considered the tops around here for the open shop guys, with only a small percentage making that much.

Then when I topped out, I got a $12 per hour pay raise on top of that. So yeah, I didn't let some silly notion of pride get in the way of a really smart decision.

For me, going IBEW was by far the best move I have ever made.


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## Colorado

I just got accepted to the apprenticeship in local 68. I start work soon and have the orientation classes next week.


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## Zenerohmma

Colorado said:


> I just got accepted to the apprenticeship in local 68. I start work soon and have the orientation classes next week.




Good luck.


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## Zenerohmma

brian john said:


> Only way this would float is if they PAID you above the scale for apprentices.
> 
> You were in the trade 8 years and became an apprentice. I surely would not be BRAGGING on this local and their ignorant use of your time.
> 
> * That is an INSULT to any decent working man*.




He may have been paid higher wage. I have know IBEW apprentices come in with experience and start at higher rates.


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## 408sparky

Any traveling brothers or sisters out there that have are certified welders? There's been a call here in Local 332 that hasn't been filled for a week and starting pay is $58.76.


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## Longrider4

*any bros from local 606 out there.*

Need to find out any bros or sisters from 606 working in or out of Fl. Been out of work for 2 mos. Any infor will help need to get back to work asap. Thanks.


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## mainejakes

RUSSIAN said:


> What? that's kinda weird


makes sense if they dont have any jobs. also i would imagine THAT particular union had a bout of a lot of apprentices joining and quitting


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## mainejakes

Zenerohmma said:


> He may have been paid higher wage. I have know IBEW apprentices come in with experience and start at higher rates.


higher only within the context of apprentice pay. the highest tier of apprentice pay is only 85 percent of journymans


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## Chrisibew440

Zenerohmma said:


> I heard that 440 was hurting and many apprentices from that local were going to Vegas....


Rumors. For what? No clue!


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## mainejakes

oldman said:


> then your goal should ultimately be to get the non-union contractors customers to open their pocketbooks and to also give the non-union contractors incentive to go union...
> 
> however, the ideas put forth by some visitors today, are a big part of the reason that some contractors hesitate/refuse to go union...
> 
> .


you are right- the big part of why contractors wont go union s the pay.

The stereotype of the contractors ripping off customers and trying to maximize his own take home is a truism.

when you are in a commercial situation where parts and specifications leave NO room for marking up- you underpay your craftsmen dont offer them good benefits and they have no real protections to make your nut


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## mainejakes

MichiganElectrician said:


> I agree oldman,
> 
> I've always wanted to see the contractors make money. I'm happy with the crumbs.
> 
> Also understand all too well about the customer. Without them we have nothing to talk about.


the issue is when they want to share even smaller crumbs

i'm all for capitalism, but why does it have to be about paying the absolute minimum required to keep your employees while maximizing your own take home?


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## fisstech

just got initiated last week.

level 2 apprentice local 2085.


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## LOCAL 380 FOR LIFE

*My Local Lost it's Charter Today!!!!!!!!*

The Brothers and Sisters of IBEW LOCAL UNION 380 lost our Charter on Friday, November 28, 2014. We are being merged with the larger, more politically active, (to the tune of $25M in political contributions over the past decade!), Local Union 98 from neighboring Philadelphia. 

The rumors of the merger have been running wild for the past 12 months. We were put under the microscope by 3rd District IVP Siegal, and went thru an audit by the IO in May of '14. This all culminated in a hearing in late September, where our BM was called to task over our organizing practices, and lack of market share. Funny thing about that is, our market share is every bit as good as our surrounding suburban locals, in fact better than them nearly all of them, and on par with Local 98's market share in their bordering suburbs. 

This entire thing reeks of a power grab. I completely understand the need for constant scrutiny, and improvement of market shares. As well as the need for aggressive organizing. But we were not given ANY oppurtunity to be evaluated, and correct the issues the IO found most in need of fixing. Instead, our Charter will removed from it's place in our Union Hall, our territory divided between powerful Local 98, and 3rd District IVP Siegal's very own home Local, 724. Siegal, BTW, was the instigating, and driving force behind this move, in his own words, written in a letter to our BM last December. 

Have any of you lived thru a merger, or the loss of your LU Charter? Please share your expierience. Thanks. 

L.U. 380 will live on in our hearts. May our skills, and our pride forever set us apart, and give us all the strength to succeed in our future endevours! Thank You to all the Men and Women who built our home Local, and instilled the traits that make us stand out amongst our peers.


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## eejack

LU 380 will live on in our hearts.


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## Local68applicant

Hey congrats on being accepted into 68. I'm moving to denver and applying there next week. Can you tell me how big there apprentice classes are. Do they have multiple 1st or 2nd year classes. Also I was hoping to find out the names of the companies on the committee that will be interviewing me. How many guys are the interviewing panel?


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## Dave Dinero

what's YOU local lol


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## RIVETER

Dave Dinero said:


> what's YOU local lol


Huh!!!


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## Dave Dinero

RIVETER said:


> Huh!!!


Thread topic....missing the R in "your"


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## PlugsAndLights

I used to belong to local 586 in Ottawa. The union treated the 
guys worse than the companies did. Bunch of a$$holes. Glad 
I left.


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## Spunk#7

With the IBEW merger mania: Good Guys Finish Last!


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## Bad Electrician

Spunk#7 said:


> With the IBEW merger mania: Good Guys Finish Last!


More information please


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