# Working non-union with union? (Alberta 424)



## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

Hey everybody.

So for fast background, I'm a brand new Alberta Red Seal Journeyman. After waiting years, and hearing how my employer will eventually get us benefits/pension through the local non-union contractor's association, I got sick of waiting and decided to go down to the Local office in my city after work on Thursday and fill out an application.

For anyone not familiar with Alberta's situation, we're in a major economic slump right now. Too many electricians, not enough work. The couple people I know personally in the Local have some pretty high out-of-work numbers. The 424 also axed their commercial rate by $8/hr, so I'm actually making more doing the same kind of work, at the non-union shop I've been at for my whole apprenticeship. That, and for hopefully the next few months, I should have work.

This decision came about from acknowledging that I don't have enough self control to save for my own retirement, and thinking, after giving 4 years of my time given to this company, if I was let go, I'd have nothing to show for it but a resume slot filled. Right now, it looks like mostly steady work so I'm stuck staying where I can make a buck. My boss and coworkers aren't bad either. 

Just wondering about experiences any of you have had working non-union, while union.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't understand how you can be union and nonunion at the same time?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

So you are currently non union and liking it but filled out an application to join the union?

If the union local is so slow on work why join?


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

I stayed working non-union for about a week after I was signed up. Technically I wasn't union unit after the first year. I was on a permit AKA white ticket. Even worse white "B" ticket. 

I put in my two weeks notice, but wasn't sure if I was going to get a call in two days or two months. My old employer worked with me. Told me to give him a call when I wasn't going to be in anymore. 

It has worked out very well for me. Would trade in any of my experiences.


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## LuckyLuke (Jun 1, 2015)

Ink&Brass said:


> Hey everybody.
> 
> So for fast background, I'm a brand new Alberta Red Seal Journeyman. After waiting years, and hearing how my employer will eventually get us benefits/pension through the local non-union contractor's association, I got sick of waiting and decided to go down to the Local office in my city after work on Thursday and fill out an application.
> 
> ...


Benefits are a must have for any non-union company in Alberta that is worth working for. In almost 27 years I never came across one that didn't offer benefits after 3 months of some sort (I would offer it sooner but most providers won't allow it), pension is more of a rare occurrence however. Many guys work non-union while signed up for the union but not all companies would consider you if they know you are waiting for a call from the union unless they just need a warm body to fill a spot for short term.

I would discuss the benefits issue with the other employees, work together to squeeze him on it.  He is better off sucking it up and signing you guys on with something like Blue Cross or through the Chamber of Commerce, these plans are cost effective and zero excuse for him to not offer it up ASAP. Maybe just in case start searching out members of the ECAA, chances are if a company is willing to spend money to be a member they are willing to spend the spare change needed for benefits. I know you say your boss isn't bad but in my opinion he is a parasite if he doesn't offer any benefits.


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## cabletie (Feb 12, 2011)

cabletie said:


> Would trade in any of my experiences.


They was supposed to be wouldn't trade.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

cabletie said:


> They was supposed to be wouldn't trade.


Was supposed to be "That was supposed to be wouldn't trade."

:jester:


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

I was a member of 424, joined in 2016 as a last ditch attempt to stay in Alberta. They were okay with members working non union so long as the hall was informed of who the company was. They were realistic about the fact that guys have to pay the bills. However they will eventually expect you to take a union call of some kind.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> So you are currently non union and liking it but filled out an application to join the union?
> 
> 
> 
> If the union local is so slow on work why join?




Good question, I half don't know, and half do. 

Mostly because I'm feeling stuck. I had a primarily self-taught apprenticeship. I've been running sites with a coworker since we were 2nd years with little supervision. Corners (quality, not safety) get cut, because I'm not provided the time and/or material to do the quality of work I want to. I'm constantly having to babysit and argue up our chain basic code compliance (read as $$$) here just to avoid trouble with AHJ, it's always an uphill battle. 

I think it's a contamination from my military background. I like a relatively tight ship. Im easy going, but I'd like more structure on the job. 

I don't think it would take much to make me a lifer at this company, but I'd need to see/ help effect some changes. 





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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Ink&Brass said:


> Good question, I half don't know, and half do.
> 
> Mostly because I'm feeling stuck. I had a primarily self-taught apprenticeship. I've been running sites with a coworker since we were 2nd years with little supervision. Corners (quality, not safety) get cut, because I'm not provided the time and/or material to do the quality of work I want to. I'm constantly having to babysit and argue up our chain basic code compliance (read as $$$) here just to avoid trouble with AHJ, it's always an uphill battle.
> 
> ...



Pay and benefits should be commensurate with what you offer to the company long before you consider a life term.

The way I was raised and the things I did in the past make me feel more at home in a well structured (military style) business.


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

The correct way for a union member to work non-union is to contact their hall organizer and ask about "salting". Anything else, they can tell you as it's up to the local hall on their rules and requirements.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Pay and benefits should be commensurate with what you offer to the company long before you consider a life term.
> 
> 
> 
> The way I was raised and the things I did in the past make me feel more at home in a well structured (military style) business.




Wise words. 

I think what I'm looking at with this move is buying more opportunities, by keeping my head down in the non-union, while paying dues and climbing the out-of-work list at the Local. Things improve here, drop out of the Local membership (or maybe remain) . Things degrade or stay the same too long, I'll be in a good position to bid jobs at the Local. 


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## active1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Good luck. Don't get caught.
You may be putting your retirement funds at risk.
Don't know Candida laws.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

active1 said:


> Good luck. Don't get caught.
> You may be putting your retirement funds at risk.
> Don't know Candida laws.


IBEW is pretty much IBEW anywhere in North America.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

active1 said:


> Good luck. Don't get caught.
> You may be putting your retirement funds at risk.
> Don't know Candida laws.




You can work non-union here as long as you declare it to the local. 


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## Essex (Feb 4, 2015)

So is it a must in some States to pay onto a Union? You do not get a choice?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Essex said:


> So is it a must in some States to pay onto a Union? You do not get a choice?


Of course you get a choice.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

active1 said:


> The correct way for a union member to work non-union is to contact their hall organizer and ask about "salting". Anything else, they can tell you as it's up to the local hall on their rules and requirements.


That would be a **** move as he says his non union contractor is working with him. So far all the union has done is say "hey bud, good luck".


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> That would be a **** move as he says his non union contractor is working with him. So far all the union has done is say "hey bud, good luck".


In a depressed market with current guys on the bench for the Union what do you really expect them to say?


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> In a depressed market with current guys on the bench for the Union what do you really expect them to say?


I thought the union was all about protecting the workers?? If they have no work why even accept new workers?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> I thought the union was all about protecting the workers?? If they have no work why even accept new workers?


That is something you'd have to ask the local in question, that doesn't make sense to me.


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## LuckyLuke (Jun 1, 2015)

sbrn33 said:


> I thought the union was all about protecting the workers?? If they have no work why even accept new workers?


The union WAS all about protecting the workers, now it's a business just like anything else.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

LuckyLuke said:


> The union WAS all about protecting the workers, now it's a business just like anything else.


Sad but true in many locals/locales!


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## daveEM (Nov 18, 2012)

Ink&Brass said:


> I think it's a contamination from my military background. I like a relatively tight ship. Im easy going, but I'd like more structure on the job.
> 
> I don't think it would take much to make me a lifer at this company, but I'd need to see/ help effect some changes.


Well demand that your employer pay Union Rates. 

I think you said you would take an $8.00 reduction. With that money he would perhaps be able to set something up as to benefits, etc.

Else $8x40hrsx50weeks is $16,000.00 in a RRSP account. Or Tax Free Savings account.


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## Ink&Brass (Nov 6, 2013)

daveEM said:


> Well demand that your employer pay Union Rates.
> 
> I think you said you would take an $8.00 reduction. With that money he would perhaps be able to set something up as to benefits, etc.
> 
> Else $8x40hrsx50weeks is $16,000.00 in a RRSP account. Or Tax Free Savings account.


Paying union rates would actually cost me a dollar per hour. 

I think I'll just sit tight.


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