# Carbide Cutters



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

we bought several of the ideal sets several years ago. worked out great, although careless guys will still eat them up by overspeeding and not bothering to put a drop of oil on them (gives them much longer life).

For lots of holes (production), ko set still is best imo though.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

wildleg said:


> we bought several of the ideal sets several years ago. worked out great, although careless guys will still eat them up by overspeeding and not bothering to put a drop of oil on them (gives them much longer life).


 Thanks. I'll checkout the Ideals. 


> For lots of holes (production), ko set still is best imo though.


Agreed. But I am talking about 1 or 2 holes. I figure it's not worth digging out the KO set and carrying it in when I am going to need the drill anyway.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

We use Klein at work but I use Lenox at home. The larger sizes are kind of rough no matter what


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I'm lazy and don't feel like taking my KO set with me when I need to make a hole or two. I have holesaws, but I would rather get a good carbide cutter in 1-1/4" and 2" KO sizes.
> 
> I've heard a lot of good things about them. What brand do you recommend? Greenlee? Ideal?


Get the stud with the bearing on it and use your impact.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I just want to bump this, I still haven't gotten around to buying them but would like to do it now.

Unfortunately it seems that buying just the 2" and 1-1/4" KO sizes will be very expensive. I am wondering if it's worth it over just using a $12-15 holesaw.

This is only for the odd hole. I don't want to have to carry a KO set into a basement just to make 1 hole in a panel. Especially since I have to drill a hole for the KO set anyway, why not just drill the right size hole the first time.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I just want to bump this, I still haven't gotten around to buying them but would like to do it now.
> 
> Unfortunately it seems that buying just the 2" and 1-1/4" KO sizes will be very expensive. I am wondering if it's worth it over just using a $12-15 holesaw.
> 
> This is only for the odd hole. I don't want to have to carry a KO set into a basement just to make 1 hole in a panel. Especially since I have to drill a hole for the KO set anyway, why not just drill the right size hole the first time.


I think they are great, cut even stainless like butter.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I just want to bump this, I still haven't gotten around to buying them but would like to do it now.
> 
> Unfortunately it seems that buying just the 2" and 1-1/4" KO sizes will be very expensive. I am wondering if it's worth it over just using a $12-15 holesaw.
> 
> This is only for the odd hole. I don't want to have to carry a KO set into a basement just to make 1 hole in a panel. Especially since I have to drill a hole for the KO set anyway, why not just drill the right size hole the first time.


For carbide cutter I can justify the cost if you going use it pretty often and they do cut more cleaner than standard holesaw escpally with stainless steel boxes I have to cut in my area. 

Just run them slow they will cut nice and dont get it hot otherwise ya will dull the carbide tips.,


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

I've known folks who just bring the ko die and cutter, with the draw stud, and use a 1" socket on their impact driver to press it through. Noisy but it works. 

As was mentioned:

https://www.qualitymill.com/2775208/Product/Milwaukee®-49-16-2622


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

tjb said:


> I've known folks who just bring the ko die and cutter, with the draw stud, and use a 1" socket on their impact driver to press it through. Noisy but it works.
> 
> As was mentioned:
> 
> https://www.qualitymill.com/2775208/Product/Milwaukee®-49-16-2622


That still needs a drill and holesaw, so why not just drill the right size hole the first time? It's only one hole. Plus, I don't have a big impact gun anymore, and if I did I wouldn't want to bring yet another tool in.

I'm trying to be faster and more efficient.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I just want to bump this, I still haven't gotten around to buying them but would like to do it now.
> 
> Unfortunately it seems that buying just the 2" and 1-1/4" KO sizes will be very expensive. I am wondering if it's worth it over just using a $12-15 holesaw.
> 
> This is only for the odd hole. I don't want to have to carry a KO set into a basement just to make 1 hole in a panel. Especially since I have to drill a hole for the KO set anyway, why not just drill the right size hole the first time.


You don't need to carry the whole set. 
Take out the size you need and put it in that husky tote. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> You don't need to carry the whole set.
> Take out the size you need and put it in that husky tote.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Yes, I understand that.

A KO set to me and the people I've worked with is the hydraulic ram, pump, draw stud, and cutter. Not the whole set of every cutter.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Yes, I understand that. Everything I said previously still applies.


Well you keep saying I don't want to carry the whole set. Good luck on your search. That's all I got! 





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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

zac said:


> Well you keep saying I don't want to carry the whole set. Good luck on your search. That's all I got!


Yeah, I wouldn't expect much more than people telling me to use a KO set when I say I don't want to use a KO set.


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## zac (May 11, 2009)

HackWork said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't expect much more than people telling me to use a KO set when I say I don't want to use a KO set.


 Well alrighty then. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I have the Ideal set... I'll send it to you... POS carbide cutters... I have the teeth fall out of 3 1/2" sets in the last two months. 

I think I am going to try the Greenlee set.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Save the money from the carbide cutters and just buy a set of those Milwaukee steel hole saws that I talked about and somebody else posted the picture of. They cut panels fast enough and keep sharp if you put em in an impact gun and just short burst the gun thru the metal. They work terrific and have earned the macmikeman seal of approval , a lofty prize indeed!


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The main reason I see to buy the carbide cutters is stainless steel. For residential work, where stainless is scarce, and needing to cut similar size holes through lumber is common, I'm skeptical you'll see a good return from these. 

I do however encourage you to ignore the negative comments above and buy them. The Champion brand comes highly recommended from a local industrial supply that sells to a lot of industrial maintenance and machine shops, these hammerheads love cutting metal. It's made in USA. 

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Carbide-Cutters-Non-Ferrous-Materials/dp/B00PSO76W8 

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Carbide-Cutters-Non-Ferrous-Materials/dp/B00PSO7LKU

You really ought to buy a whole set, you'll be disappointed if you only buy two sizes then you need another one some time. 

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-CT5P-SET-1-Carbide-Electrical-Conduit/dp/B001TREZ2W 

In anticipation of the thread on Electrician Swap I'd like to be the first to offer you thirty cents on the dollar based on the lowest eBay / Amazon price I claim I've ever seen.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HackWork said:


> I'm lazy and don't feel like taking my KO set with me when I need to make a hole or two. I have holesaws, but I would rather get a good carbide cutter in 1-1/4" and 2" KO sizes.
> 
> I've heard a lot of good things about them. What brand do you recommend? Greenlee? Ideal?


I inherited a Greenlee set. One small lightweight box has 1/2" to 2" in it. I really cant say enough about how good they cut. 
Also they are all in a nice little box and it will be a very long time before you buy another one.
You should make the move you will be very happy with it for sure.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Switched said:


> I have the Ideal set... I'll send it to you... POS carbide cutters... I have the teeth fall out of 3 1/2" sets in the last two months.
> 
> I think I am going to try the Greenlee set.


I've seen a few people say that the Ideal are great. If I remember correctly, they were the first to market with them. So you having issues with them are exactly why I am debating spending the money and thinking about just using a normal holesaw.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

splatz said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Carbide-Cutters-Non-Ferrous-Materials/dp/B00PSO76W8


1-3/4" for a 1-1/4" KO? I've always used 1-5/8".


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## Tortuga (Sep 22, 2014)

I've had nothing but good experiences with the Greenlee set posted earlier. I'd always used a Unibit before, but I've torn up a couple drill transmissions with it. Once I switched to the carbide cutters, I stopped breaking drills. I've been using the same set a couple years and haven't worn out any of them.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> I have the Ideal set... I'll send it to you... POS carbide cutters... I have the teeth fall out of 3 1/2" sets in the last two months.
> 
> I think I am going to try the Greenlee set.


Could be one of two common things, a poor brazing job which would be warranted or you are running them too fast and overheating them.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Tortuga said:


> I've had nothing but good experiences with the Greenlee set posted earlier. I'd always used a Unibit before, but I've torn up a couple drill transmissions with it. Once I switched to the carbide cutters, I stopped breaking drills. I've been using the same set a couple years and haven't worn out any of them.


Yes, Cant say enough good about them if you are a hole saw guy. Really a game changer.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> 1-3/4" for a 1-1/4" KO? I've always used 1-5/8".


You'll hardly notice the extra 1/16th around the fitting.

They don't cut a bigger hole the way a worn pilot bit in a holesaw will normally do.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I've seen a few people say that the Ideal are great. If I remember correctly, they were the first to market with them. So you having issues with them are exactly why I am debating spending the money and thinking about just using a normal holesaw.


I use them in an impact with an adapter chuck and pulse them, over heating will kill them in quick order if you run them too fast in a drill.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> 1-3/4" for a 1-1/4" KO? I've always used 1-5/8".





MechanicalDVR said:


> You'll hardly notice the extra 1/16th around the fitting.
> 
> They don't cut a bigger hole the way a worn pilot bit in a holesaw will normally do.


I see you like a tight fit in your can.

1-5/8" = 1.625" 

According to NEMA, you're completely breaking the law. From 

https://www.nema.org/Technical/Documents/Bull_71_reaffirmed_12_15_11.pdf


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> I see you like a tight fit in your can.
> 
> 1-5/8" = 1.625"
> 
> ...


With KOs and carbide cutters I'm lazy, I use the one for the size of the fitting at hand and don't pay any attention to the actual measured size.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

MechanicalDVR said:


> With KOs and carbide cutters I'm lazy, I use the one for the size of the fitting at hand and don't pay any attention to the actual measured size.


That's the good thing about buying the kits made for conduit sizes, that Greenlee kit would be the way to go. But I think it only goes to 1.5"


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

splatz said:


> That's the good thing about buying the kits made for conduit sizes, that Greenlee kit would be the way to go. But I think it only goes to 1.5"


That Greenlee 660 kit I have goes up to 2"


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Southeast Power said:


> That Greenlee 660 kit I have goes up to 2"


Does it go up to a 2" diameter cutter or a cutter for 2" trade size KO? The one I am finding online only has five cutters.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> That's the good thing about buying the kits made for conduit sizes, that Greenlee kit would be the way to go. But I think it only goes to 1.5"


The GL kit I have only goes to 1 1/2", always figured they had a larger kit but I never needed it.

The most common holes in stainless for me were for 3/4" and 1" fittings.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> Does it go up to a 2" diameter cutter or a cutter for 2" trade size KO? The one I am finding online only has five cutters.


They have a kit to 2"


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

That's the one, five sizes for 1/2", 3/4", 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" TS KO's... it would be nice if the kit included a 2-1/2" diameter cutter for 2" TS KO's



MechanicalDVR said:


> They have a kit to 2"


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

splatz said:


> That's the one, five sizes for 1/2", 3/4", 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" TS KO's... it would be nice if the kit included a 2-1/2" diameter cutter for 2" TS KO's


My mistake, posted the wrong kit, it's a #648 that has the 2" KO size:


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I've always gone up 3/8".

1/2" KO = 7/8" hole
3/4" KO = 1-1/8" hole
1" KO = 1-3/8" hole
1-1/4" KO = 1-5/8" hole.

I know that it jumps to a 1/2" larger size for 2".


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

I have the Ultracutters, not sure what the difference is:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

splatz said:


> Does it go up to a 2" diameter cutter or a cutter for 2" trade size KO? The one I am finding online only has five cutters.


The one I have starts at our 7/8" and, like you said, only goes up to 1-1/2"


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

macmikeman said:


> Save the money from the carbide cutters and just buy a set of those Milwaukee steel hole saws that I talked about and somebody else posted the picture of. They cut panels fast enough and keep sharp if you put em in an impact gun and just short burst the gun thru the metal. They work terrific and have earned the macmikeman seal of approval , a lofty prize indeed!


I was drunk during that so I forget it all. Link?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I've always gone up 3/8".
> 
> 1/2" KO = 7/8" hole
> 3/4" KO = 1-1/8" hole
> ...


The Greenkee kits jump up a 1/2" starting at 1 1/4".


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The Greenkee kits jump up a 1/2" starting at 1 1/4".


I see, good to know.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

FWIW...If you have to make a hole in a live panel, the hole cutters have a shoulder. Hole saws do not.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I also need arbors with 1/4" quickshafts for impact gun use.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Bird dog said:


> FWIW...If you have to make a hole in a live panel, the hole cutters have a shoulder. Hole saws do not.


And if you put a large magnet below the cutter on the panel chips won't fly.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I also need arbors with 1/4" quickshafts for impact gun use.


Wonder if those are even available?


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

I have the 655 Greenlee kit and it cuts and works great with some speed control and a little cutting oil. The pop out spring sucks and will fall off a lot. I've heard about people switching to the Klein spring for that reason. 




MechanicalDVR said:


> And if you put a large magnet below the cutter on the panel chips won't fly.


I've used magnets but switched to this when I found it. It can be a bit bulky in packed panels but you can usually flex it into any spot. Not that I would ever drill into a live panel...:whistling2:

http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/product/212/The-Dirt-Bag-Electrical-Safety-Drilling-Tool


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TheLivingBubba said:


> I have the 655 Greenlee kit and it cuts and works great with some speed control and a little cutting oil. The pop out spring sucks and will fall off a lot. I've heard about people switching to the Klein spring for that reason.
> 
> I've used magnets but switched to this when I found it. It can be a bit bulky in packed panels but you can usually flex it into any spot. Not that I would ever drill into a live panel...:whistling2:
> 
> http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/product/212/The-Dirt-Bag-Electrical-Safety-Drilling-Tool


I have a large round magnet that came out of an old speaker, I put it in a baggie and pull the baggie through the inner part of the ring.

It works much like the gadget you posted.

Once the cutter is through I pull the bag out of the magnet and all the chips are inside the bag.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I have Ideals, Lenox and champion. The Ideals and the champions cut better quality holes but the Lenox cutters seem to have tougher teeth. 

Doesn't really matter though if you can find a local sharpening shop, I take mine in for either sharpening or if I break teeth they braze in new carbide.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

HackWork said:


> I also need arbors with 1/4" quickshafts for impact gun use.


Have you tried the Harbor Freight step bits?


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> I also need arbors with 1/4" quickshafts for impact gun use.


I want this too! If it exists, I wouldn't be surprised if I have some in the garage already...


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

Majewski said:


> I want this too! If it exists, I wouldn't be surprised if I have some in the garage already...


If I find one I'll let you know. I could always just use socket adapters, but who wants to do that.


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## Majewski (Jan 8, 2016)

HackWork said:


> If I find one I'll let you know. I could always just use socket adapters, but who wants to do that.


Not ****ing me!


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## ethan.bixler (Sep 3, 2017)

Couple of upsides to these that I have not seen posted anywhere so I figured I would chime in:
The biggest argument to using these versus a hole saw is that the TKO makes a concentric knock out where a unibit/hole saw does not (for those wondering the difference between the two is whether or not you have to use a grounding bushing if running conduit). I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS BEING VERY PARTICULAR BUT IF YOU'RE NOT TAKING PRIDE IN HOW YOU DO YOUR WORK I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THE DISCUSSION THAT WILL FOLLOW. I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CORRECTLY SIZED UNIBIT IS CAPABLE OF A CONCENTRIC KO
Second upside is that TKO bits will work should you have to drill a hole overlapping any other KO's without making a complete mess of the panel.
When we were expanding the 1/2"-1" conduit size TKO set was purchased for any new van that was outfitted without exception. I 


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

ethan.bixler said:


> Couple of upsides to these that I have not seen posted anywhere so I figured I would chime in:
> The biggest argument to using these versus a hole saw is that the TKO makes a concentric knock out where a unibit/hole saw does not (for those wondering the difference between the two is whether or not you have to use a grounding bushing if running conduit). I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS BEING VERY PARTICULAR BUT IF YOU'RE NOT TAKING PRIDE IN HOW YOU DO YOUR WORK I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THE DISCUSSION THAT WILL FOLLOW. I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CORRECTLY SIZED UNIBIT IS CAPABLE OF A CONCENTRIC KO
> Second upside is that TKO bits will work should you have to drill a hole overlapping any other KO's without making a complete mess of the panel.
> When we were expanding the 1/2"-1" conduit size TKO set was purchased for any new van that was outfitted without exception. I
> ...


 First, educate yourself as to what a concentric knockout is.

Then, go **** yourself.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Could be one of two common things, a poor brazing job which would be warranted or you are running them too fast and overheating them.


Low speed with lube... It has only done it on the 1/2" models, and the teeth literally fall off. You can pick them up and they are perfectly intact. Crappy manufacturing process.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

Where can I get a unibit that can make a concentric knock out? That be sweet :laughing:


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> Low speed with lube... It has only done it on the 1/2" models, and the teeth literally fall off. You can pick them up and they are perfectly intact. Crappy manufacturing process.


Yeah sounds like a defect, they may have had a bad run an dnot realized it.

I'd just return them for new.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

ethan.bixler said:


> Couple of upsides to these that I have not seen posted anywhere so I figured I would chime in:
> The biggest argument to using these versus a hole saw is that the TKO makes a concentric knock out where a unibit/hole saw does not (for those wondering the difference between the two is whether or not you have to use a grounding bushing if running conduit). I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS BEING VERY PARTICULAR BUT IF YOU'RE NOT TAKING PRIDE IN HOW YOU DO YOUR WORK I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THE DISCUSSION THAT WILL FOLLOW. I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CORRECTLY SIZED UNIBIT IS CAPABLE OF A CONCENTRIC KO
> Second upside is that TKO bits will work should you have to drill a hole overlapping any other KO's without making a complete mess of the panel.
> When we were expanding the 1/2"-1" conduit size TKO set was purchased for any new van that was outfitted without exception. I
> ...




I've been in this trade a very long time and in that time i have never seen any bit or punch that makes concentric or eccentric knockouts.

What exactly are you trying to say?


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm guessing he really means a close fitting hole. 

Sometimes you get guys that nuts with a bit metal saw and you get some sloppy jagged ass oval the connector barely stays in.

Hole saw tip, replace the pilot bot with either a piece of 1/4" rod or get a long 1/4" bit with partial flutes so the flutes stop before the saw. Makes much cleaner holes in thin stuff when you don't have the pilot bit wearing it's hole out and letting the saw drift.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

What a sad, sad man that he has so little in life to take pride in that he has to resort to taking pride in making a hole in an electrical panel. 

And for such a craftsman to not know what a concentric KO is...


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

We use this every chance we can, no mess no metal shavings.
The reach is 8". It can't be used anywhere but works great in hot panels.


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## drewsserviceco (Aug 1, 2014)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I've been in this trade a very long time and in that time i have never seen any bit or punch that makes concentric or eccentric knockouts.
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly are you trying to say?



I've only read the last 10 comments and am about to go to the beginning....if I had to guess, he's off in his terminology and how it relates to the NEC, but I think he's saying that with a punch you can have an existing hole and use the play in said hole to line up the punch exactly where you want the new KO to be. With a unibit you're stuck enlarging an existing hole. If the existing hole isn't laid out where you want it, you have no control to correct it, you can only make the existing hole bigger in all directions. 

That's my take on it.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Jlarson said:


> I'm guessing he really means a close fitting hole.
> 
> Sometimes you get guys that nuts with a bit metal saw and you get some sloppy jagged ass oval the connector barely stays in.
> 
> Hole saw tip, replace the pilot bot with either *a piece of 1/4" rod *or get a long 1/4" bit with partial flutes so the flutes stop before the saw. Makes much cleaner holes in thin stuff when you don't have the pilot bit wearing it's hole out and letting the saw drift.


Re-purpose a broken Bell hanger bit.

I always use a two-step process.

Pilot hole with a Tek strew followed by a 1/4" puppy.

Then comes a solid shaft 'pilot' that does not wander -- as it has no flutes to %$#@ up the pilot hole.

But, most often, for panels -- I go with the Greenlee 1731.

If I need a big KO, I start with 1" and take it the rest of the way with the usual Greenlee stuff.


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