# New apprentice, safety questions



## Whispers333 (Nov 25, 2018)

Long story short. I’ve been trying to find an apprenticeship for a few months. I’ve emailed every company small and large on google from A to Z. I finally landed a job with a small company. 

Since I’ve been there I’ve done a 30 foot ladder job to replace a failing fixture. It was an extension ladder with no safety devices. 

A business with 460V power that didn’t want us to turn the power off. We worked with live wire. 

We dug a few deep trenches without contacting digsafe. 

I have really no construction background. I took a short course and the teacher was against all of this.

Is this the job or does this seem out of the norm?


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Whispers333 said:


> Long story short. I’ve been trying to find an apprenticeship for a few months. I’ve emailed every company small and large on google from A to Z. I finally landed a job with a small company.
> 
> Since I’ve been there I’ve done a 30 foot ladder job to replace a failing fixture. It was an extension ladder with no safety devices.
> 
> ...


Find a company that values safety. Those bad habits will catch up with your coworkers and current company, plus the ones with abysmal safety records don't get the better more profitable jobs as frequently.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Are they paying you big bucks? Like $50/hr. or above? Do they do "tailgate" safety meetings every week, and have you sign an attendance sheet? If not, GTFO. When OSHA shows up on the job, not only will they fine YOU, they'll really stick it to the contractor. If someone dies on the job, the lawsuits/fines will bankrupt that company.


----------



## Whispers333 (Nov 25, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I guess in my mind the question was “Do i stay for a few months to gain experience?” I feel like a few months experience may get me a job in the future quicker. But it seems like I’m in possible danger.

They started me at $15 an hour.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

Whispers333 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I guess in my mind the question was “Do i stay for a few months to gain experience?” I feel like a few months experience may get me a job in the future quicker. But it seems like I’m in possible danger.
> 
> They started me at $15 an hour.


15 ph is good pay for starting out .

I would stay and gain experience, if your told to do something against osha or other safety laws you have the right to say you feel uncomfortable and not do the task at hand .

Try and get as much experience as you can for now .

What state are you in


----------



## Whispers333 (Nov 25, 2018)

Sounds like a decent plan. I’m in MA


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

Welcome to Electrician Talk.
Please take a few minutes and fill out your profile.


----------



## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

joebanana said:


> Are they paying you big bucks? Like $50/hr. or above? Do they do "tailgate" safety meetings every week, and have you sign an attendance sheet? If not, GTFO. When OSHA shows up on the job, not only will they fine YOU, they'll really stick it to the contractor. If someone dies on the job, the lawsuits/fines will bankrupt that company.


OSHA does not fine the individual. MSHA does.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## PaddyF924 (Feb 2, 2017)

Where in ma?


----------



## Whispers333 (Nov 25, 2018)

Small company near the city. I’d rather not oust the company. I just want to know if this is normal or not.


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

I know I did some crazy stuff as an apprentice and as a young electrician.
Today if someone told me I had to go up 30' on an extension ladder I would refuse.
Its to dangerous.
30' is a long way down and other ways of doing this job should have been explored.

I do understand some small contractors don't have everything. But they should at least have some way to lessen the chance of a serious fall.
I don't have the answer because I was not on that job.


----------



## PaddyF924 (Feb 2, 2017)

I mean in terms of what city or part of ma


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

We had a "question" that was almost word-for-word like this over the summer. I call troll BS, but I could be wrong.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Whispers333 said:


> ...Is this the job or does this seem out of the norm?


It was the job in an awful lot of shops up until maybe 15-20 years ago, but it's really out of the norm now. 



Whispers333 said:


> I guess in my mind the question was “Do i stay for a few months to gain experience?”


That's a decision you'll need to make. If it was me, I'd become a vocal advocate for your own safety and make them fire you so you can collect unemployment. lain:




Whispers333 said:


> I feel like a few months experience may get me a job in the future quicker. But it seems like I’m in possible danger.


You're probably right on both accounts.



Whispers333 said:


> They started me at $15 an hour.


Pretty much what the signs on convenience store windows say they pay people to sell cigarettes and turn the gas pumps on.


----------



## PaddyF924 (Feb 2, 2017)

Op either apply to local 103 or a large non union company like interstate or griffin.


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

TGGT said:


> joebanana said:
> 
> 
> > Are they paying you big bucks? Like $50/hr. or above? Do they do "tailgate" safety meetings every week, and have you sign an attendance sheet? If not, GTFO. When OSHA shows up on the job, not only will they fine YOU, they'll really stick it to the contractor. If someone dies on the job, the lawsuits/fines will bankrupt that company.
> ...


OSHA can not fine the employee only the contractor .


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

Whispers333 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I guess in my mind the question was “Do i stay for a few months to gain experience?” I feel like a few months experience may get me a job in the future quicker. But it seems like I’m in possible danger.
> 
> They started me at $15 an hour.


Stay for a year or so then apply to your local ibew once you have some experience.


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

TGGT said:


> OSHA does not fine the individual. MSHA does.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 Ok. I was close. I thought CALOSHA did.
My son was working temporarily in Washington DC, and the police were issuing "safety violation" tickets on the job site. He even got a pic of one, hard hat and all. I asked him where the blue, and red spinning light was. He said it was in his pocket, like the temp. roof light of unmarked cop cars. I think he was kidding, like I thought he was kidding about cops handing out safety violation tickets, until he showed me the pic.


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

Unionpride277 said:


> OSHA can not fine the employee only the contractor .


Yeah, I got that.


----------



## Whispers333 (Nov 25, 2018)

No. Not a troll haha. Too much time on my hands. I tried griffin they told me to get experience first.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> I know I did some crazy stuff as an apprentice and as a young electrician.
> Today if someone told me I had to go up 30' on an extension ladder I would refuse.
> Its to dangerous.
> 30' is a long way down and other ways of doing this job should have been explored.
> ...


What's the difference between 30' and 22'?

You were an electrician and have an issue with an electrician being expected to use an extension ladder to work on a single light? :surprise:


----------



## Unionpride277 (Oct 31, 2018)

joebanana said:


> Unionpride277 said:
> 
> 
> > OSHA can not fine the employee only the contractor .
> ...


My bad didn’t mean to double type it


----------



## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

HackWork said:


> What's the difference between 30' and 22'?
> 
> You were an electrician and have an issue with an electrician being expected to use an extension ladder to work on a single light? :surprise:


8'. He said he was up 30' without any safety even considered.
Whens the last time you were up 30' without being tied off. When is the last time you were up a ladder 30' period?
How many lights is not the issue. Its the height. If you can do one, you can do a 100. And that might be his next task.

I have worked on many extension ladders and A-Frames over the years. I did not like it and felt I was in danger most every time.
30' is the height of a 3 story building hax. Would you climb up a ext ladder 3 stories high without any sort of safety precautions in place?

Over the years on this forum I have told stories of dumb **** I did as an apprentice and as a young electrician.
I am trying to get it into these young guys heads unsafe work is not a requirement. Safety comes first.
I hope at least one young guy hears this.

Really. When was the last time you climbed an unsupported ext ladder 3 stories high?
I said I understood some small contractors do not have the ability to rent lift equipment and or top quality safety equipment.
But they can and should find a safe way to do it. Sending a greenhorn up is asking for trouble.


----------



## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> 8'.


 And what difference does that 8' make? 



> He said he was up 30' without any safety even considered.
> Whens the last time you were up 30' without being tied off.


 I was about 26 foot up today. There is nothing to tie off to. Setting up an anchor point would require more work than performing the electrical work on the light.

I have never heard of this, WTF is wrong with you?



> When is the last time you were up a ladder 30' period?


 We used 36' ladders often on solar jobs. But again, what is the difference between 30' and 24'???



> How many lights is not the issue.


 It most certainly is the issue. Do work on one light doesn't warrant the cost of bringing in a lift nor the risk of setting up fail protection which would require more time and labor. Electrician go up ladders and work on lights, it's just the way that it is.



> Its the height.


 The height is of no consequence. That 8' that you quoted early will make no difference.



> If you can do one, you can do a 100. And that might be his next task.


 If he has 100 to do, then they they should get a bucket truck.



> I have worked on many extension ladders and A-Frames over the years. I did not like it and felt I was in danger most every time.


 Then you were in the wrong trade. You just lucked out with your factory type job that didn't require you to use a ladder often. An electrician should be comfortable working on an extension ladder.




> 30' is the height of a 3 story building hax. Would you climb up a ext ladder 3 stories high without any sort of safety precautions in place?


 I can and have, just like every other electrician I ever met. Seriously, WTF is wrong with you?



> Really. When was the last time you climbed an unsupported ext ladder 3 stories high?


 The last job that I did in the union, as I explained earlier.



> I said I understood some small contractors do not have the ability to rent lift equipment and or top quality safety equipment.
> But they can and should find a safe way to do it. Sending a greenhorn up is asking for trouble.


 They did find a safe way to do it, with an extension ladder. If someone has a problem working off of one, they should go work at the local nail salon instead.


----------



## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Whispers333 said:


> Long story short. I’ve been trying to find an apprenticeship for a few months. I’ve emailed every company small and large on google from A to Z. I finally landed a job with a small company.
> 
> Since I’ve been there I’ve done a 30 foot ladder job to replace a failing fixture. It was an extension ladder with no safety devices.
> 
> ...


it's fairly common, but not right. the biggest thing to me about your post is that they obviously have not trained you to do the specific tasks those ways or else you would be comfortable and not questioning doing them that way. 

to me it's not whether you can work on 30' ladder without special protection or work on energized 480V, it's if your trained properly to do it or not. your not(or you would be comfortable and confident), so with that in mind they should not have had you do it. that alone is what makes me say that company has too little regard for the well being of their employees.


----------



## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

Most smaller companies have no regard for the well being of thier employees. They only care about getting the job done.

I hate standing on the top of a 6ft ladder or the top rung even!, but I do it pretty often. I still never feel comfortable and if theres alot of work I'll grab a bigger ladder.....if it's there! Lol 
But for 1 or 2 fixtures, I bite my tongue and just do it. Everyone knows your not supposed to do it and noone cares that you do, do it, actually you'll likely be considered a pu××y if you don't do it. Its all about getting the job done.

I still don't feel all that comfortable working in a live panel, I prefer it to be off, but we all know thats impractical. Thats why I treat pretty much everything I do as if it were live, whether it is or not. Just makes for good habits.

I'm sure theres many other situations just as dangerous or even worse but it seems to be the norm in every trade outside the unions and safety nazis 

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ctsparky93 (Sep 17, 2016)

Call before you dig a big trench is stupid not to do it’s free. Working off a extension ladder is fine if you are using safety percussions. Like having ladder at correct angle, not over reaching, have some one footing if needed. But if there a lot of high work there should be a lift. But not for 1 light. Unless it won’t be safe. There are 16-18 foot A frame ladders. Working live well we have all done it. With proper training of course. But there is stuff that should never be worked on live no excuses. Do all the prep work and let the j-man finish it off. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> but it seems to be the norm in every trade outside the unions and safety nazis
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


I have been on huge non union jobs that had some of the most safety regs ever. It’s the little ressi and commercial jobs where unsafe work is the norm, not strictly union.


----------



## trentonmakes (Mar 21, 2017)

eddy current said:


> I have been on huge non union jobs that had some of the most safety regs ever. It’s the little ressi and commercial jobs where unsafe work is the norm, not strictly union.


It's nice when you agree with me! Lol

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


----------



## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

trentonmakes said:


> eddy current said:
> 
> 
> > I have been on huge non union jobs that had some of the most safety regs ever. It’s the little ressi and commercial jobs where unsafe work is the norm, not strictly union.
> ...


It would help if you weren’t wrong all the time !!

JK, lol


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

TGGT said:


> OSHA does not fine the individual. MSHA does.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 Yeah, I guess what I meant was "cite". Although, I was told by a contractor years ago that "both" got fined. That was his "safety program". I never even seen one on a job site. 

Ran into one today though. She was teaching the MSHA class for a cement plant job in the high desert. And she confirmed that the employee gets the "cite", the employer gets the fine.


----------



## jelhill (Nov 11, 2018)

joebanana said:


> Ok. I was close. I thought CALOSHA did.
> My son was working temporarily in Washington DC, and the police were issuing "safety violation" tickets on the job site. He even got a pic of one, hard hat and all. I asked him where the blue, and red spinning light was. He said it was in his pocket, like the temp. roof light of unmarked cop cars. I think he was kidding, like I thought he was kidding about cops handing out safety violation tickets, until he showed me the pic.




*POLICE* (Like City police???) handing out safety violation tickets on a job site?!!!! Boy, that is a new one. :surprise:


----------



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

jelhill said:


> *POLICE* (Like City police???) handing out safety violation tickets on a job site?!!!! Boy, that is a new one. :surprise:


Yepper, actual metro police with guns and everything. And yeah, that's what I said, only in not so many words, more like WTF?


----------



## 3rdUserName (Nov 23, 2018)

In my exp, the smaller the shop, the less safty equipment they have. Also their not AS worried about insurance costs. So theirs less safty meetings and less concerns. Their are obviously some excellent small shops out there and this has only been my experience. But I would get 6 months in. Get on as many different sites as u can. Offer to take on different tasks that u have not done and start dropping apps again. However if you get comfortable and just put in devices every day, or just pull wire most days or dont take initiative to gain the experience u need to make your resumē rise above some others... then this process can take a few years. But your off to a great start, being here on the forum on your own time. Once or twice a week at least, I would check in here, search whatever tasks your doing on the job and see if these guys have any gems of info that could help u out. YouTube is another valuable tool and speaking of tools, buy the best brands u can afford. Even if u dont know why yet. Be the first one on site. Do what's asked of you efficiently and with a smile. Stay away from the nonsense... examples *guys that dont wear their hard hats/safty vests/eye wear, guys that wear earphones or chat on their phones when their not really supposed to, guys that go to certain adult establishments for lunch because "they have the best chili 🤨"... just stick with the guys that seem to have their crap together and try to develop good habits. Because they are very difficult to brake. Good luck bro.


----------

