# Legacy



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Have you noticed, lately, that the word LEGACY has been portrayed in a BAD LIGHT? What do you think that LEGACY means?...I have my thoughts...what are yours?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Legacy.com

Largest supplier of online obituaries.

http://www.legacy.com/NS/


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> Legacy.com
> 
> Largest supplier of online obituaries.
> 
> http://www.legacy.com/NS/


Your wit is good.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> Your wit is good.


Did you mean wit or I am Full of SH*T?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

It's your reputation (good or bad) after your dead.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> I have my thoughts



Yeah ya don't have to start a thread every time you have a thought.:whistling2::laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

480sparky said:


> It's your reputation (good or bad) after your dead.


Thanks that makes me feel good knowing what everyone here thinks of me.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> It's your reputation (good or bad) after *your* dead.


It's "you're".


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Peter D said:


> It's "you're".


As in, You're a tool? or as in You are a tool?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Peter D said:


> It's "you're".


Being the Spelling SS will be your's, Peter.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> Did you mean wit or I am Full of SH*T?


I meant ,your wit. People that I have met that had a GOOD WIT about themselves generally are happy and do not take themselves too seriously.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I meant ,your wit. People that I have met that had a GOOD WIT about themselves generally are happy and do not take themselves too seriously.


I do not take myself to seriously BUT EVERY BODY ELSE HAD BETTER TOW THE LINE.

You do realize if there was a Open Shop forum I'd take the union side? Nah, maybe not!

And I am Full of Crap.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> I do not take myself to seriously BUT EVERY BODY ELSE HAD BETTER TOW THE LINE.
> 
> You do realize if there was a Open Shop forum I'd take the union side? Nah, maybe not!
> 
> And I am Full of Crap.


My brother-in-law was a union millwright at COLGATE. I always respected him. He said that if he could have the pay, the benefits, without the union, he would not be in the union.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> My brother-in-law was a union millwright at COLGATE. I always respected him. He said that if he could have the pay, the benefits, without the union, he would not be in the union.


Makes sense to me.

You realize I operate a union shop?


----------



## idontknow (Jul 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah ya don't have to start a thread every time you have a thought.:whistling2::laughing:


hey now, he's done his own testing as well and will share his conclusions if it makes it to page 3


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

idontknow said:


> hey now, he's done his own testing as well and will share his conclusions if it makes it to page 3


Your user name explains a lot. Are you trying to get me back into the forum about saving money? Just let me know...Try it without sarcasm, and the like.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> Makes sense to me.
> 
> You realize I operate a union shop?


I did not know. How many employees?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> I did not know. How many employees?


20..............


All my men make above scale, they receive above mandated benefits, more holidays than mandated, more vacation (our local has none) and I cover them for sick leave, family leave on a case by case (birth, death, wife or child illness) and a yearly bonus even in tough times that is close (for some) to 15% of their yearly pay, Take their trucks home (some live 80 miles away one way), buy all tools they need or want (with approval).

You see REWIRE just another management DI*KHEAD


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brian john said:


> 20................................................


That's great. If you can keep 20 people busy I'd say you are pretty busy, as well.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah ya don't have to start a thread every time you have a thought.:whistling2::laughing:


Why are you BADGERING me?


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Why are you BADGERING me?


Now thats a new one. :no: :laughing:


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Now thats a new one. :no: :laughing:


 are badgers part of the rodent family:whistling2:


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> are badgers part of the rodent family:whistling2:


As an IBEW member I am going to tell you something. You are DEFINITELY not speaking for all of us, instead you are giving us a bad name. If you are just going to sling insults instead of debating like an adult and gentleman, why not give up while you can?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rewire said:


> are badgers part of the rodent family:whistling2:


No, they're part of the Weasel family.

A guess someone in the union can't be bothered to look up facts as it's not part of their job and would be 'beneath them'.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No, they're part of the Weasel family.



I am not sure your helping me here ...... :laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> I am not sure your helping me here ...... :laughing::laughing::laughing:


 
No offence was intended, I was just pointing out the facts







..... something certain folks here choose to ignore. I won't mention any names as I think we all know who that is.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No offence was intended,


I know, it's all good, just struck me as kind of funny.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No, they're part of the Weasel family.
> 
> A guess someone in the union can't be bothered to look up facts as it's not part of their job and would be 'beneath them'.


 actually I knew that a people pleasing RAT would offer up answer in hopes of impressing someone who would tell them what a good little RAT they were for going after the big mean union guy,Its called working smarter:whistling2:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

rewire said:


> actually I knew that a people pleasing RAT would offer up answer in hopes of impressing someone who would tell them what a good little RAT they were for going after the big mean union guy,Its called working smarter:whistling2:


RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT RAT

Now I can be a smart old grump just like you. :laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

rewire said:


> actually I knew that a people pleasing RAT would offer up answer in hopes of impressing someone who would tell them what a good little RAT they were for going after the big mean union guy,Its called working smarter:whistling2:


 
Every time you use that word you lower the union to the level of scum and put yourself in the realm of a bigot.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rewire said:


> actually I knew that a people pleasing RAT would offer up answer in hopes of impressing someone who would tell them what a good little RAT they were for going after the big mean union guy,Its called working smarter:whistling2:


Actually, you didn't. You just made that up to try to make yourself look smarter that you really are.

And right now, you ain't lookin' so smart.



BTW, is this the 'legacy' you're asking about?


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> Have you noticed, lately, that the word LEGACY has been portrayed in a BAD LIGHT? What do you think that LEGACY means?...I have my thoughts...what are yours?


To most people around the country the word "Legacy" symbolizes the extra $2,000+ that each American car costs just to pay off the huge pensions of the rich union members who performed their factory job by pressed a button or screwed on a panel.

Because of those legacy costs the hard working American taxpayer has to bail out the American car companies to the tune of many billions of dollars.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Actually, you didn't. You just made that up to try to make yourself look smarter that you really are.
> 
> And right now, you ain't lookin' so smart.
> 
> ...


 got you to do the heavy lifting:laughing:


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> To most people around the country the word "Legacy" symbolizes the extra $2,000+ that each American car costs just to pay off the huge pensions of the rich union members who performed their factory job by pressed a button or screwed on a panel.
> 
> Because of those legacy costs the hard working American taxpayer has to bail out the American car companies to the tune of many billions of dollars.


 Ford didn't need bailed out and actually posted a profit


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I am not sure your helping me here ...... :laughing::laughing::laughing:


 I kinda hate taken one thats been teed up


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

EDM said:


> To most people around the country the word "Legacy" symbolizes the extra $2,000+ that each American car costs just to pay off the huge pensions of the rich union members who performed their factory job by pressed a button or screwed on a panel.
> 
> Because of those legacy costs the hard working American taxpayer has to bail out the American car companies to the tune of many billions of dollars.


It used to be that the auto company held some money back, a little for each vehicle, just as they do for possible warranty repairs. There was a plan and it seemed to work. As the pot grew it got to be too much of a temptation not to tap into. The companies started calling the SAVED MONEY for pensions as part of their liquid assets, so to speak. With government approval they were able to carry less and less of a percentage, balance to cover future pensioners, just as the banks do as far as their percentage of assets to cover what we all save.
The auto companies keep doing this and now the time has come to pay up...cover their pensioners and they spent the money, already. 

I don't quite see why you say it is the worker's fault.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rewire said:


> got you to do the heavy lifting:laughing:


 
At least my facts are straight.... instead of spewing nonsense.


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> Ford didn't need bailed out and actually posted a profit


What is your point? I answered the man's question. It seems like you are trying to refute something, but you failed at even making a literate response.


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> It used to be that the auto company held some money back, a little for each vehicle, just as they do for possible warranty repairs. There was a plan and it seemed to work. As the pot grew it got to be too much of a temptation not to tap into. The companies started calling the SAVED MONEY for pensions as part of their liquid assets, so to speak. With government approval they were able to carry less and less of a percentage, balance to cover future pensioners, just as the banks do as far as their percentage of assets to cover what we all save.
> The auto companies keep doing this and now the time has come to pay up...cover their pensioners and they spent the money, already.


 So what you are saying is that the American car companies can't afford to pay off the pensions with all the high labor rates, correct? Well then it seems like it's time to lower those rates, correct?


> I don't quite see why you say it is the worker's fault.


 Because the workers, who extort high rates thru force and thuggery, are eating up all the money, making American cars cost so much and lowering their sales.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

EDM said:


> So what you are saying is that the American car companies can't afford to pay off the pensions with all the high labor rates, correct? Well then it seems like it's time to lower those rates, correct?
> Because the workers, who extort high rates thru force and thuggery, are eating up all the money, making American cars cost so much and lowering their sales.


 As far as I know the average auto worker makes about $60,000.00 a year. They are working ten hour days with many of them working with pain from carpel tunnel , and various other injuries that have occurred on the job. It takes a good wage to get people to show up every day and to work under the conditions that most of us do.
And by the way , does 60k sound excessive to you. If it does, maybe should look for another line of work.


















































some are w


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> As far as I know the average auto worker makes about $60,000.00 a year.


Do you also realize that the average autoworker is an unskilled factory worker? The average auto worker holds a job that he learned in a matter of hours. $60K in a state with low cost of living? What a racket! 



> They are working ten hour days with many of them working with pain from carpel tunnel, and various other injuries that have occurred on the job.


 Just like minimum wage shelf stockers at the local grocery store.


> It takes a good wage to get people to show up every day and to work under the conditions that most of us do.


 People show up to work everyday for minimum wage.


> And by the way , does 60k sound excessive to you. If it does, maybe should need to look for another line of work.


 $60K doesn't sound excessive for an electrician, especially not in my state. As an IBEW member I make nearly twice that, but I also make my contractor a lot of money using my skills and experience. That's a fact that the average UAW can't claim.



> some are w


Huh?


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

There are three primary (and generational) faults left as the inheritance (or "Legacy") from the good old days of union power.

The first goes back to the 60's when the reality of what the Marshall Plan allowed our former enemies to accomplish began to set in at the same time that the first of the baby boom generation wanted some of those good but then ever declining union jobs.

Combine this with the shift from democratic political alliances and a racist backlash too among the members and just about everyone was happy to give the shaft to whoever stood still long enough to get it... so long as they didn't get it themselves. This applied to all industrial unions not just UAW and was the real death knell of "brotherhood".



RIVETER said:


> With government approval they were able to carry less and less of a percentage, balance to cover future pensioners, just as the banks do as far as their percentage of assets to cover what we all save.



The second (generational) fault began in the late 70's when the reality of poor fuel economy and abysmal engineering and build quality finally sunk in.

The companies didn't want to really change and neither did the UAW. 
between them they devised a plan that allowed each to put their heads in the sand.



> The auto companies keep doing this and now the time has come to pay up...cover their pensioners and they spent the money, already.
> 
> I don't quite see why you say it is the worker's fault.


The most recent generational fault has been off shoring of manufacturing altogether and importing nearly everything. We're all at fault in this one because we all could see the previous two by then.


----------



## regieleeroth (Feb 27, 2009)

EDM said:


> So what you are saying is that the American car companies can't afford to pay off the pensions with all the high labor rates, correct? Well then it seems like it's time to lower those rates, correct?
> Because the workers, who extort high rates thru force and thuggery, are eating up all the money, making American cars cost so much and lowering their sales.


Oy vey, so it's all the laborer's fault?? Didn't management and their bean counters have ANYTHING to do with signing those contracts?? Was there a gun held to Rick Wagoner's head, with a union thug telling him (in his best Tony Soprano voice), "Sign dis full benefits package, or yooz sleeps wit da fishes." -- Get out of cartoon land, bro. There's two sides to that coin. Force and thuggery, indeed....

GM was/is a bloated corpse not offering/designing/building/marketing in line with the times or fuel prices. And they are still making poor decisions, getting rid of their best affordable line (Saturn), and selling Hummer to China.


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

regieleeroth said:


> Oy vey, so it's all the laborer's fault?? Didn't management and their bean counters have ANYTHING to do with signing those contracts?? Was there a gun held to Rick Wagoner's head, with a union thug telling him (in his best Tony Soprano voice), "Sign dis full benefits package, or yooz sleeps wit da fishes." -- Get out of cartoon land, bro. There's two sides to that coin. Force and thuggery, indeed....


 What you're not understanding is that the contract they signed has bound them for *life*. And it's not only the union thugs enforcing that fact, it's the federal government.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> At least my facts are straight.... instead of spewing nonsense.


 thats why we use ya :jester:


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

BryanMD said:


> There are three primary (and generational) faults left as the inheritance (or "Legacy") from the good old days of union power.
> 
> The first goes back to the 60's when the reality of what the Marshall Plan allowed our former enemies to accomplish began to set in at the same time that the first of the baby boom generation wanted some of those good but then ever declining union jobs.
> 
> ...


 You spoke a lot of words, and a lot of the "facts" are correct. But how can you blame the worker for a company that leaves the U.S. to manufacture a product that is then shipped back to here to be sold? Look in your medicine cabinet and see if you have COLGATE toothpaste. LIFE is full of decisions.

RIVETER


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> What you're not understanding is that the contract they signed has bound them for *life*. And it's not only the union thugs enforcing that fact, it's the federal government.


 Who exactly is the "union thug" you speak of how about a name and face or is this just something you heard on talk radio and are now in here spewing out as fact.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rewire said:


> Who exactly is the "union thug" you speak of how about a name and face or is this just something you heard on talk radio and are now in here spewing out as fact.


This is getting hilarious.

The same thing was asked over at this thread, and you never answered that one.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

*Lagacy*



EDM said:


> Do you also realize that the average autoworker is an unskilled factory worker? The average auto worker holds a job that he learned in a matter of hours. $60K in a state with low cost of living? What a racket!
> 
> Just like minimum wage shelf stockers at the local grocery store.
> People show up to work everyday for minimum wage.
> ...


 To 95% percent of the people who are in the workforce a person who makes $120,000.00 a year is a rich person. If you are as good as you say, you deserve it, but I would advise you to to lay low a little. Getting on a forum and badmouthing those who make so much less than you..You sound like an elitist.


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> But how can you blame the worker for a company that leaves the U.S. to manufacture a product that is then shipped back to here to be sold?


The worker extorting such high rates for their job is what drove the manufacturing out of this country. What other reason is there?


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> Who exactly is the "union thug" you speak of how about a name and face or is this just something you heard on talk radio and are now in here spewing out as fact.


lol, you're too funny.


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> To 95% percent of the people who are in the workforce a person who makes $120,000.00 a year is a rich person. If you are as good as you say, you deserve it, but I would advise you to to lay low a little. Getting on a forum and badmouthing those who make so much less than you..You sound like an elitist.


Explaining facts makes someone an elitist?

It's funny how out of everything I said, you can't refute a single thing that I said. Instead you chose to challenge my character. 

I guess you concede?


----------



## BryanMD (Dec 31, 2007)

RIVETER said:


> To 95% percent of the people who are in the workforce a person who makes $120,000.00 a year is a rich person.



focusing on the dollar figure at all is the larger mistake.
The issue is BUYING POWER. 

How many hours do you need to work to afford to buy an X?
(compare that to your grandfathers time and you'll groan).


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

480sparky said:


> This is getting hilarious.
> 
> The same thing was asked over at this thread, and you never answered that one.


 It got locked before I could respond it was from an old news letter


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> The worker extorting such high rates for their job is what drove the manufacturing out of this country. What other reason is there?


 no NAFTA did


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> lol, you're too funny.


 you non union thug you


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

EDM said:


> Explaining facts makes someone an elitist?
> 
> It's funny how out of everything I said, you can't refute a single thing that I said. Instead you chose to challenge my character.
> 
> I guess you concede?


 No, I admit that you are a CHARACTER.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> Explaining facts makes someone an elitist?
> 
> It's funny how out of everything I said, you can't refute a single thing that I said. Instead you chose to challenge my character.
> 
> I guess you concede?


their is a difference between having character and being one...Not sayin just sayin


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

rewire said:


> It got locked before I could respond it was from an old news letter


 
"An old newsletter".

Wow. How old?

Can you post it now? Or has it reached it's expiration date?


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> no NAFTA did


BS, there is NO reason for a company to outsource work across the globe if they could do it here for a good rate.

You are simply expecting NAFTA to use the government to extort companies into keeping labor here.


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> you non union thug you


I AM union! I said I was an IBEW member, you just don't read very well.

Not everyone buys into your line of crap.


----------



## regieleeroth (Feb 27, 2009)

I'm still not seeing the union "thuggery". I'm seeing an inability for two sides to project what "legacy" costs will be, and taking appropriate measures to reign them in to a reasonable system, like Walter Reuther proposed way back when. To share the health/pension costs between the Big 3 plus their parts suppliers. The Big 3 nixed it. That puts the blame on the UAW squarely at 50 %, automakers 50%. 

We've all heard the stories about the 60k a year coffeemaker, the full bennies for the guy pushing the broom. Bad for the UAW, bad for business, absolutely. But CEO compensation tripling since the 1970's? While pushing redundant designs between 3 makes? While letting fuel efficient cars become soleley associated with Asian brands? Uhhh....

And sorry if I sounded a little harsh last post.


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

regieleeroth said:


> I'm still not seeing the union "thuggery".


 Then you apparently have your eyes closed. 


> We've all heard the stories about the 60k a year coffeemaker, the full bennies for the guy pushing the broom. Bad for the UAW, bad for business, absolutely. But CEO compensation tripling since the 1970's? While pushing redundant designs between 3 makes? While letting fuel efficient cars become soleley associated with Asian brands? Uhhh....
> 
> And sorry if I sounded a little harsh last post.


It is absolutely none of your concern what a CEO in a privately held corporation makes. I don't care if every executive gives themselves a $50 billion bonus this year, they are allowed to do what they like with their company.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> BS, there is NO reason for a company to outsource work across the globe if they could do it here for a good rate.
> 
> You are simply expecting NAFTA to use the government to extort companies into keeping labor here.


 Well most here could not live on 1.00/hr and wages were just a small part of a company relocating you also factor in taxes and government regulations along with safety madates and bottom line is the bottom line.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> I AM union! I said I was an IBEW member, you just don't read very well.
> 
> Not everyone buys into your line of crap.


 you just pay dues kinda like a RINO


----------



## regieleeroth (Feb 27, 2009)

EDM said:


> The worker extorting such high rates for their job is what drove the manufacturing out of this country. What other reason is there?


EPA, OSHA, profit margin, executive bonus packages, taxes...


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> Well most here could not live on 1.00/hr and wages were just a small part of a company relocating you also factor in taxes and government regulations along with safety madates and bottom line is the bottom line.


If you don't want to live on what they offer you, go find another job.



Or your could use both union and government thuggery. Government thuggery is even worse since they come in with guns...


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> you just pay dues kinda like a RINO


 Explain yourself.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

EDM said:


> Explaining facts makes someone an elitist?
> 
> It's funny how out of everything I said, you can't refute a single thing that I said. Instead you chose to challenge my character.
> 
> I guess you concede?


An ELITIST is a person who thinks that he is intrinsically above or better than the next guy. You may be more educated and that is great. You may do a great job and that is good,also. You may be paid as much as you think that you are worth and that is okay,too. But the bottom line is that you are a laborer. And a laborer has the right to place a value on his labor...That is apparently what you did, so why harrass others who want something better for themselves and their families?:no:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

rewire said:


> you just pay dues kinda like a RINO



Hang on a minute, can you help a brother out and explain what a RINO is?


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> An ELITIST is a person who thinks that he is intrinsically above or better than the next guy. You may be more educated and that is great. You may do a great job and that is good,also. You may be paid as much as you think that you are worth and that is okay,too. But the bottom line is that you are a laborer. And a laborer has the right to place a value on his labor...That is apparently what you did, so why harrass others who want something better for themselves and their families?:no:


Let me try this on you one more time. I use my skills and experience to make my contractor money, THAT is my goal. If I do that, everything works out great. 

IBEW contractors have the ability to leave and become non-union contractors, car manufacturers don't have that ability.

The problem is when these UAW extort high wages for menial labor that the manufacturers can't afford.

These workers aren't making their company money, they are TAKING it.


----------



## regieleeroth (Feb 27, 2009)

EDM said:


> Then you apparently have your eyes closed.
> 
> 
> It is absolutely none of your concern what a CEO in a privately held corporation makes. I don't care if every executive gives themselves a $50 billion bonus this year, they are allowed to do what they like with their company.


To the detriment of shareholders? (That makes it a public company, with a Board of Directors). ...further, if exorbitant compensation, general malfeasance, and ineptitude towards trends in their respective market, one runs a company into bankruptcy, that makes it a VERY public company, as in taxpayer bailout. 

At that point, the golden parachute kicks in, leaving some of us pointing the finger at middle class joe's who make too much money. Yeah, they did it all. 


...and if I close my eyes, I can see the union thug with the Joisey accent, gun in hand at the contract table. Plus all the overpaid goons outside with pitchforks and torches. But it's really just an overblown stereotype painted on all of us with a very large brush. Yeah, I've seen the You-Tube thug videos. Does it happen? Not nearly as much as some think. It's the most ineffective, embarrassing thing possible, IMO.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Hang on a minute, can you help a brother out and explain what a RINO is?


 RINO was a term coined by conservatives in the Republican party to describe the more moderate politicians in the party
R republican
I in
N name
O only

Many of these RINO s did not follow the platform of the Republican party and were targeted in primaries


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> RINO was a term coined by conservatives in the Republican party to describe the more moderate politicians in the party
> R republican
> I in
> N name
> ...


And what does that have to do with me?


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> And what does that have to do with me?


 :whistling2:


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> :whistling2:


That's your typical thing to do when you have nothing valid to say?


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

480sparky said:


> "An old newsletter".
> 
> Wow. How old?
> 
> Can you post it now? Or has it reached it's expiration date?


 
Or, are you just not going to respond because you have no valid repsonse?


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

:devil2:


EDM said:


> That's your typical thing to do when you have nothing valid to say?


 :001_tongue::cursing: :thumbdown:


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> :devil2:
> :001_tongue::cursing: :thumbdown:


Trust me, not a single person here is agreeing with what you said or laughing at your antics.

I'm sure RIVETER will be around to say that he agrees, but I wouldn't doubt that he's your troll account.


----------



## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

EDM said:


> Trust me, not a single person here is agreeing with what you said or laughing at your antics.
> 
> I'm sure RIVETER will be around to say that he agrees, but I wouldn't doubt that he's your troll account.


 I do not seek the praise of others and I know that everyone is getting a chuckle you are the best straight man I have seen :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

rewire said:


> I do not seek the praise of others and I know that everyone is getting a chuckle you are the best straight man I have seen :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Has anyone "gotten a chuckle" from rewire or RIVITER?

Place your votes right here.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

rewire said:


> I do not seek the praise of others and I know that everyone is getting a chuckle you are the best straight man I have seen :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


But we are not laughing with you, we are laughing at you.:laughing:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

EDM said:


> Has anyone "gotten a chuckle" from rewire or RIVITER?
> 
> Place your votes right here.


I haven't gotten a chuckle. 










I wet my pants.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

EDM said:


> Has anyone "gotten a chuckle" from rewire or RIVITER?
> 
> Place your votes right here.


 It is a man who feels alone on a subject that reaches out with a joke and signs of affirmation in hopes the subject will simply disappear.

RIVETER


----------



## EDM (Nov 3, 2009)

RIVETER said:


> It is a man who feels alone on a subject that reaches out with a joke and signs of affirmation in hopes the subject will simply disappear.
> 
> RIVETER


You're right, he is alone on the subject because his opinion is just plain old stupid.


----------



## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

EDM said:


> You're right, he is alone on the subject because his opinion is just plain old stupid.


Don't be so hard on yourself.


----------

