# Who needs a box?



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Ssdd.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

There seems to be a huge amount of that done and going by Holmes on Homes it's rampant in Canada.


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## jakeparr (Jul 10, 2011)

I see that some times when people either upgrade or change to vinyl siding or soffits. 

The fixtures arent even attached to the box and the wire goes through the soffit 6" to the old box.

Fixtures then use wood screws to fasten to siding!


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## bgleason (Mar 3, 2012)

I got called by a couple of my guys once on a remodel job about an outlet with no neutral supposedly. They told me someone had just run a wire from the recpt neutral terminal to ground. Come to find out, someone ran a 12ga steel wire from the recpt neutral terminal, out through the back of the box, outside through the siding, along the outside wall (tucked under the siding), inside through the siding, into the back of anther box and under the recpt neutral terminal. Homeowner, friend of homeowner or fly-by-night, don't know who the genius was, but hope that was his only electrical "fix".


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## bgleason (Mar 3, 2012)

I got called by a couple of my guys once on a remodel job about an outlet with no neutral supposedly. They told me someone had just run a wire from the recpt neutral terminal to ground. Come to find out, someone ran a 12ga steel wire from the recpt neutral terminal, out through the back of the box, outside through the siding, along the outside wall (tucked under the siding), inside through the siding, into the back of anther box and under the recpt neutral terminal. Homeowner, friend of homeowner or fly-by-night, don't know who the genius was, but hope that was his only electrical "fix".


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## bubb_tubbs (Apr 15, 2012)

I found tonnes of these when I redid a basement recently. Home Cheapo special.


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

Seen a whole kitchen with the devices held in by drywall anchors, he wanted me to change a bad gfci. I removed the plate and had seen what was going on. Before i removed it i told him we would have to fix all of these and i was asked to leave. Can't win em all.


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## bubb_tubbs (Apr 15, 2012)

mbednarik said:


> Seen a whole kitchen with the devices held in by drywall anchors, he wanted me to change a bad gfci. I removed the plate and had seen what was going on. Before i removed it i told him we would have to fix all of these and i was asked to leave. Can't win em all.


People just don't understand that once you've put your hands on it, you become responsible for it.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

bubb_tubbs said:


> People just don't understand that once you've put your hands on it, you become responsible for it.


Please provide the precedents court cases that have established this factoid.


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## bubb_tubbs (Apr 15, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> Please provide the precedents court cases that have established this factoid.


I don't mean _legally_. (can you imagine what a nightmare that would be to enforce?)

I just hate repairing a single issue and having some idiot complain about another problem down the road.

I'd rather do the whole thing right the first time if there are signs of sketchiness or just wash my hands of the issue and not get involved in a headache.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

bubb_tubbs said:


> I don't mean _legally_. (can you imagine what a nightmare that would be to enforce?)
> 
> I just hate repairing a single issue and having some idiot complain about another problem down the road.
> 
> I'd rather do the whole thing right the first time if there are signs of sketchiness or just wash my hands of the issue and not get involved in a headache.


Ok, in that case, documentation of existing conditions found and what you did while on site is critical to the downplay of complaints against you. Me? I make em sign away my responsibility for the existing defects on the property before I break out my tools.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

bubb_tubbs said:


> ...I'd rather do the whole thing right the first time if there are signs of sketchiness or just wash my hands of the issue and not get involved in a headache.


 While I can understand your position, it seems like the better solution would have been to fix what he was there for, and then provide a quote to deal with the rest.

As is, _mbednarik _didn't make any money, and the H/O probably just found some joker who would willingly screw the GFCI to the wall.

-John


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

There has been some changes in opinion, over time, as to whether the fixture rosette / base qualified as a 'box.'


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