# branched circuts code question



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

If I'm reading this right, you're saying other trades somehow make the splices you do loose. If that's the case, you're not making the splices up properly.

Or are you saying the boxes get covered up by drywall, paneling, tile, or cabinets and you'd just rather not take the time to find them? If this is the case, you most likely installed the box for a reason (either a receptacle dedicated to a specific load) or just a general-purpose outlet to satisfy Art. 210.52. Here, you're required to provide the outlet, so whether or not it's made up makes no difference. If it isn't, you make it up when you find it.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

in a study for example the plug box is nailed to the bottom plate then they put in cabinets and usually not where the plans specs, do to every thing u can think of so my plug box is lost behind a cab/drawer n my circut doesnt work so either i can pigtail my grounds then neutrals tthen hots in places where this problem may occus or simply leave the romex un spliced so that my circut works..its often cheaper and easier to add a plug from a locatable hot then find the covered up one.so if its not a code problem i wonder if i can leave the romex in tact until the trim out


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

So basically, during rough-in you don't have any idea where a receptacle is supposed to go? You just nail a box to the bottom plate and hope you can find it when you trim?


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

and basically it makes me no difference if i spend all day finding a covered up plug or hot checking that circut,but times are tough and im a better asset financially when i find sollutions to costly plug hunting


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

for sure i read the plans and adjust to accomodate code but the plans may say nothing on a wall then i come back on the trim and theres cabinets or something and basically the problem starts there


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

1. Demand the builder provide you with detailed plans. These plans should include plan, elevation and isometric views where cabinets and woodwork is concerned. They should also have all dimensions included. Require two identical sets. You both sign and date both sets, and you each keep a set. If something isn't right during trim, whoever can provide the most recent set of 2-signature plans wins.

2. If your builder isn't willing to do this, then the price goes up. Finding buried boxes takes time, and you should charge accordingly. I can live with one or two, but if this is a consistent problem, you need to be compensated for it.

3. Leaving a box with splices buried is a violation. 300.15. If you 'loop' your wire through the box, that seems like a whole lot more labor in order to hopefully prevent a problem later. You also may run into AFCI-protection problems (210.12) or dedicated circuit problems (the recep you need must be a dedicated or required circuit, and you just can't pull power from any old circuit).

Why do you nail your boxes to the bottom plate? Unless your builder routinely uses very tall baseboard with a large, flat surface, that seems to be a bad spot.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

id never leave a spliced wire buried in a wall and never with wood covering it. if u have a hot in and hot out instead of breaking the continuing run in the box and pigtailing the grounds why not leave it continuos. yes it could mean learning to pull my circut to its end staple it then working back box by box staple loop staple, but i would have guaranteed conductivity and hell maybe im just a dork cause i prefer hanging cans, f/r boxes and switch legs on stilts over a ladder any day....and im not fortunate enough to get to negotiate whos gonna pay or not pay for what gets covered up but i get to hear about why it dont work


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

it seems the rich n famous dont like plugs on their walls they prefer them in their 5 in wood baseboards usually trimmed out in brown decora so u cant really see then


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't think looping cable through a box and having get covered up is a violation, but you still need to have so many receptacles available.

But your situation sounds more like you're roughing in a house and the owners have no clue whatsoever what they want and where. So you just come back at trim and spend an exorbitant amount of time making it work. This sounds like a very bad way to wire houses.

If you're the unfortunate grunt that must deal with it, try having a little chat with the boss. Maybe he/she doesn't know what's going on. If that fails, maybe work your way up the ladder? Otherwise, if you're in a position where you don't make any decisions about money, all you can say is "Oh, well. At least I have a paying job!"

But looping straight through 10 or 12 boxes with one continuous cable seems like a complete waste of time.



zen said:


> it seems the rich n famous dont like plugs on their walls they prefer them in their 5 in wood baseboards usually trimmed out in brown decora so u cant really see then


If this is the case, get a can of upside-down paint. Mark the floor under every box. I use a straight line for receptacles, an arrow for anything high on the wall (sconce lights, etc)



















an "S" for switches & counter-top height receps, 










and I also mark the approximate location of ceiling lights, fans, cans, etc.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

A digital camera can really help as well. Taking photos of every room and every wall prior to leaving at the end of the last day of rough-in can help find anything that's buried.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

yep im the grunt with no voice to be heard,the house im triming out is 7.2 mil and ill be damned they still cant figure out locations and exact specs on cabinets everything at that price is subject to change, i didnt rough in the house but thanks to your tip on taking photos when i do ill be taking pics and as i work my way back up the ladder i fell off of ill prove an old dog can learn new tricks....today i walked the house with the plans inspecting that all things are where they should and 3 plugs are covered up in 3 different bathrooms 1 by granite backsplash/sheetrock 2 by cabinets and 3 plugs covered by book cases in 3 different studys 2 covered up by wood sheving in 2 dif closets. so for now ill find them and fix it but friday im buyin a camera so who ever trims out what i rough aint hatin it like i am..... thank you sir:thumbup:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Zen you need to work on your posts. They are very hard to read.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

sorry my kids have me writing the way they txt,,


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

It seems like you at least have a set of floor plans available to you. Here's what I do: I take the floor plan around room to room after rough-in and mark on the plan where every box and wire stub-out is. Not exact, but just a general location. I have tried to mark the floor as 480 suggested, but painters who spray the houses will ruin that idea. At least then, I have some ground to stand on when I tell the GC something is buried. If its one or two, then I dig them out and just figure that's gonna happen. But, half a dozen or more, then someone needs to pay for my time to dig out boxes. Most of my builders have come to the conclusion I'm not the best one to dig out covered boxes. ( I push on the drywall close to the buried box until the nails pop, and then sometimes for unknown reasons I just can't seem to ever cut on the proper side of the stud the first time.) I have started to take digital pictures now, but I still like just marking the plan.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

There is even a method to my madness, when it comes to taking the pictures.

When I walk into a room, I take the same photos from the same angle as I did before. If you'll notice the photos of the garage I posted, you'll see they're taken from the same spot. Maybe not framed exactly the same, but close enough.

What I do is go into a room, and go along the wall to my right to the first corner. I then turn, and take a shot (more if the room is long) of the opposite wall. I then continue to the next corner, turn 90º, and take images of the adjacent wall.

I continue all the way around the room in this manner so that all the images of that room are similar. This really helps locate things much more readily.

In camera location 1, I would take images of Wall 1. Then move to Location 2, and shoot Wall 2.....


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

drsparky said:


> Zen you need to work on your posts. They are very hard to read.


 I second that.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

zen said:


> sorry my kids have me writing the way they txt,,


 
Be thankful not everything is like that. Yet.


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## zen (Jun 15, 2009)

too funny,,,,,i might have to go back to school and get counseling to correct my grammar


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## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Be thankful not everything is like that. Yet.


what does this mean? I seriously don't know. Please tell me somebody.


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