# Ballasts - Why so many?



## shadysprings (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm bidding on installing about 100 fluorescent troffers. 
Client is asking me on rapid start, instant start, etc.

I assume instant start is most common? Can anyone comment on what's the most popular used today. I understand instant start ballasts are slightly lower power but reduce on off cycles. Rapid start is easier on T8 tubes.

But what is most common ballast for residential and commercial these days? Does any one type dominate?

Thanks


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

The electronic ballasts that come with a basic fixture are fast enough for me and the people who pay the bills....


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## shadysprings (Oct 2, 2012)

B4T said:


> The electronic ballasts that come with a basic fixture are fast enough for me and the people who pay the bills....


So what kind of ballast comes with the fixtures?


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## ElectricZombie (Sep 21, 2012)

If using occ. sensor or motion you should use program start ballast will prolong the life of the lamps. Instant starts are good if lights are not going to be switched on and off alot, lamps on them are rated about 10000-15000 Switch cycles. Rapid start are around 15000-20000 switch cycles but consume a little more energy on start up.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

shadysprings said:


> So what kind of ballast comes with the fixtures?


I checked.. all it says is "electronic ballst"...I would call it instant start......


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## shadysprings (Oct 2, 2012)

B4T said:


> I checked.. all it says is "electronic ballst"...I would call it instant start......


if the tombstones on each end are shunted, then it's instant start. Half the people tell me rapid start dominates the market, other half say instant start.

Home Depot and Lowes carry pretty much only instant start.

So unless an expert chimes in, I'm going to assume instant start is the default standard now.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

shadysprings said:


> if the tombstones on each end are shunted, then it's instant start. Half the people tell me rapid start dominates the market, other half say instant start.
> 
> Home Depot and Lowes carry pretty much only instant start.
> 
> So unless an expert chimes in, I'm going to assume instant start is the default standard now.


Scroll down to #5..... http://www.tvss.net/pq/ballast.htm


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> Scroll down to #5..... http://www.tvss.net/pq/ballast.htm


Because a typical instant-start ballast may give only 10,000 starts before the lamp fails vs. say, 50,000 starts for a soft-start ballast, the trade-off is clearly defined.

So it looks like the old rapid start ballasts are much better..:thumbsup:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*yep*

deal

On at opening off at close instant

1/2 on 1/2 then maybe rapid

on/off 10 billion times a day program


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Electronic ballasts come in a variety of flavors. Instant, rapid, programmed are most common. Of those, instant start is common because people don't like waiting for the lights to fire up. However, as mentioned, instant start shortens lamp life considerably and is best suited for applications where switching does not happen frequently. Rapid start is better for lamp life but of course has a bit of a delay before ignition. Programmed start is a good compromise and also is ideal for automated lighting systems with fairly frequent switching (occupancy sensors and whatnot).

Magnetic ballasts are old school, not many new ones sold these days, but plenty of old ones chugging along out there.

If you're getting a lighting package put together the factory rep can help you select the ideal setup. If you're doing it yourself with Home Depot parts then good luck to you.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

shadysprings said:


> if the tombstones on each end are shunted, then it's instant start. Half the people tell me rapid start dominates the market, other half say instant start.
> 
> Home Depot and Lowes carry pretty much only instant start.
> 
> So unless an expert chimes in, I'm going to assume instant start is the default standard now.


Fixtures will come with the ballasts you specify when you buy them from a real supply house. 

I have no idea what ones come in home depot fixtures other than cheap crap.


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## w.krueger (Sep 28, 2012)

so home depot sells GE and Phillips ballasts, they are crap? home depot carries klein, cutler hammer, square d, fluke, 3m. those are crap too? why is that ?


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

w.krueger said:


> so home depot sells GE and Phillips ballasts, they are crap? home depot carries klein, cutler hammer, square d, fluke, 3m. those are crap too? why is that ?


The same manufactures make many grades of ballasts. I was looking at a GE ballast at HD a while ago and the part number actually had DIY on the end of it. :laughing:


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## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

*100 fixtures-*

Give it to the supplier- That is what they do.

break down the 'general', 'office' and 'high use' counts for them.

if you don't like the numbers....... Home Depot and let the chips fall where they may.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Fixtures will come with the ballasts you specify when you buy them from a real supply house.
> 
> I have no idea what ones come in home depot fixtures other than cheap crap.


The ones from Home depot are always Instant start type so they must be the cheapest,.


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## etb (Sep 8, 2010)

w.krueger said:


> so home depot sells GE and Phillips ballasts, they are crap? home depot carries klein, cutler hammer, square d, fluke, 3m. those are crap too? why is that ?


One reason is that a companies who used to make pro-grade stuff found that they can increase their sales by selling stuff at the boxes. But that requires lower pricing, so they make the products cheaper.

Likewise, some mfrs make a special version for the box stores that is far cheaper than what you'd get at a supply house.


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## etb (Sep 8, 2010)

BBQ said:


> The same manufactures make many grades of ballasts. I was looking at a GE ballast at HD a while ago and the part number actually had DIY on the end of it. :laughing:


I noticed the exact same thing and it made me wonder if that makes the mfr's bean counters smile as well. I think it was a GE?


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## shadysprings (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the inputs. I generally buy from local suppliers. I referenced Home Depot and Lowes just as points of reference of what type of ballast is sold to consumers. 

I've been putting up troffers and fixtures for years but no one has ever asked me if they are instant/rapid/programmed/magnetic start ballasts inside. This client seems to know enough to be painful. So I want to make sure I can justify installing what i am installing which looks to all be instant start ballasts for the past 5+ years. 

I just want to make sure that I'm selling the most common solution so I at least have that in my corner.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

etb said:


> I noticed the exact same thing and it made me wonder if that makes the mfr's bean counters smile as well. I think it was a GE?


Yeah, I don't think the only difference is the label.



http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...1&keyword=ballasts&storeId=10051#.UGu8tq562So


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## w.krueger (Sep 28, 2012)

or maybe the more bulk you buy the cheaper it becomes. at times romex is cheaper at HD or lowes than my supply house, does that mean it is lower grade romex. I have never had a issue with a ballast from either store


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

w.krueger said:


> or maybe the more bulk you buy the cheaper it becomes. at times romex is cheaper at HD or lowes than my supply house, does that mean it is lower grade romex. I have never had a issue with a ballast from either store


******** comparison. There isn't much to Romex to alter between grades.

Electronic devices such as ballasts can run the gamut between garbage-picked components to super high-end components. BBQ speaks the truth, many manufacturers of these (and other) devices produce a lower-end version of the same thing for big box stores.

You may have never had an issue, but you also may have never installed one in a scenario where it is tested at the limits of its capabilities regularly. It's hard to say.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Never, ever put in cheap quality ballasts, florescent fixture or recessed lights. Just about anything else you can cheap out on but those things are things I don't. Call backs suck.


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## shadysprings (Oct 2, 2012)

I visited 2 ballast companies last month and met with their engineering teams. There is some truth in that they do have varying quality depending on end customer and price point.
However, the gap is shrinking between consumer and pro. The consumer stuff has gotten better while the pro stuff has gotten worse. Even the supply house suppliers have to cut costs to stay alive. For plumbing, I go to local supply house Larry and Joe's. But even they're selling the same brand and model number as Lowes across the street for more money. Loyalty also has price points too.


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## w.krueger (Sep 28, 2012)

limits of it's capabilities, either it's on or off.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

w.krueger said:


> so home depot sells GE and Phillips ballasts, they are crap? home depot carries klein, cutler hammer, square d, fluke, 3m. those are crap too? why is that ?


The ballasts that come inside of fixtures are typically imports. Often no name brands you've never heard of. one of the companies that provides them is in our neck of the woods. They import straight from China where they have a factory, and actually build a nice ballast. Ace Ballasts. 

Unfortunately, they don't often carry the ballast factor we desire, so we rarely spec out their product. But as an example, standard ballast factor 2L T8 Electronic Instant Ballasts might be $6-8 in bulk.

The new fixture business is all about bottom dollar, so imports are a big deal to help keep costs down. Home Depot wouldn't put those brands on the shelf, but they will sell you fixtures with them hidden inside.


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## shadysprings (Oct 2, 2012)

Lighting Retro said:


> The ballasts that come inside of fixtures are typically imports. Often no name brands you've never heard of. one of the companies that provides them is in our neck of the woods. They import straight from China where they have a factory, and actually build a nice ballast. Ace Ballasts.
> 
> Unfortunately, they don't often carry the ballast factor we desire, so we rarely spec out their product. But as an example, standard ballast factor 2L T8 Electronic Instant Ballasts might be $6-8 in bulk.
> 
> The new fixture business is all about bottom dollar, so imports are a big deal to help keep costs down. Home Depot wouldn't put those brands on the shelf, but they will sell you fixtures with them hidden inside.


Maybe you'd know. Are instant start ballasts the most common in both residential and commercial today? I just can't find a definitive answer. Instant start vs rapid.


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Yes sir, they are. For the most part, I've been told that on T8, there is just Instant Start or Programmed Start. Of the two, Instant start is the standard and is more cost effective. 

If I understand correctly, Instant/Rapid really do not have a difference any longer for T8. T5 I believe are all programmed start. Rapid was with T12 technology. 

Programmed start have the gentler start(Slight delay), handle cycling better, and are your best fit for sensor applications. Also cost more. 

When ordering, I'm always asked only about Instant Start or Programmed Start. Rapid is not in the vocabulary on the new technology, but was a factor in T12. Hope that helps.


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## shadysprings (Oct 2, 2012)

Lighting Retro said:


> Yes sir, they are. For the most part, I've been told that on T8, there is just Instant Start or Programmed Start. Of the two, Instant start is the standard and is more cost effective.
> 
> If I understand correctly, Instant/Rapid really do not have a difference any longer for T8. T5 I believe are all programmed start. Rapid was with T12 technology.
> 
> ...


Thanks! For the past decade, I simply wired it up, put the tubes in, and done. For some reason, many clients are asking about if I use instant, rapid, programmed, and even magnetic. I have no idea but I figured I'd educate myself so I don't sound I'm completely clueless.

And not sure why they care anyway....


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Ballast*

I pretty much add in 1:10 for cheap and 1:20 for installing ballast, retrofits, etc..built into my bid for bad ones at rate to send tech out and change. 

Ex. If I do 100 retrofit 2x4 troffers with medium grade ballast on 8 ft ceilings easy access I add in $500 to the bid for return calls and warranty. If it's 20 ft up then double that etc and so forth repeat and rinse


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

shadysprings said:


> Thanks! For the past decade, I simply wired it up, put the tubes in, and done. For some reason, many clients are asking about if I use instant, rapid, programmed, and even magnetic. I have no idea but I figured I'd educate myself so I don't sound I'm completely clueless.
> 
> And not sure why they care anyway....


They like to act knowledgeable. :laughing:

And magnetic is a bad word.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*magnetic*

magnetic ballast are great on the neutral system. I highly recommend them. It guarentee's service work eventually


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

Cletis said:


> magnetic ballast are great on the neutral system. I highly recommend them. It guarentee's service work eventually


They are phased out. The only remaining inventory is what is on the shelves except for some HO signage applications. Everything has moved to T8 electronic.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*yep*



Lighting Retro said:


> They are phased out. The only remaining inventory is what is on the shelves except for some HO signage applications. Everything has moved to T8 electronic.


I know, I was being extremely overly sarcastic...:thumbup:


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## Lighting Retro (Aug 1, 2009)

lol, I'm slow this morning.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*6*



Lighting Retro said:


> lol, I'm slow this morning.


you need 6 cups of coffee like I just had


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## Red (Nov 16, 2010)

Magnetic - bye bye not sold anymore except in HID
Rapid Start -very few left and not very common in any new fixture
Instant Start - by far the most common fluorescent ballast sold in new fixtures
Program start - generally only used with motion sensors

So if you're talking about fluorescent fixtures, instant start or programmed start are really the only two options to consider. Instant start give a larger surge of power to start the lamp and then ramps down quickly. Rapid start gave a smaller surge of power. 

One thing to note about the big box or cheap fluorescent troffers/strips etc.: Check to see what type of warranty is on the ballast. There are a lot of people pedaling one year warranty ballasts in their cheap line of fixtures but they fail to mention the ballast warranty a lot of times. I've found that the ballast warranty is one of the biggest factors in fixture to fixture pricing comparisons. 

Red


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