# Idiot Backhoe Operators



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

So why was I back the next day ...........


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you're lucky they looked as good as they did


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

wildleg said:


> you're lucky they looked as good as they did


Funny I was thinking the same thing when I looked into the trench. :thumbsup:

But what is the excuse? I nailed the location down and it was easy digging.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

the excuse ? it was in the way


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

No hablo orange paint?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> No hablo orange paint?


I think that may have a lot to do with it. 

I am pretty sure they where mumbling something about my Mom when I told them they could not start building the wall for a couple of hours while I fixed these up. I don't play well with others.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

BTW, did you pull the illegal romex out of the pipe and refeed it ?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

wildleg said:


> BTW, did you pull the illegal romex out of the pipe and refeed it ?


What the hell are you talking about Willis?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

lol .


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

wildleg said:


> you're lucky they looked as good as they did


 Most of the conduits that I have fixed always had about 2' to 3' of slack wire pulled out.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Orange paint means "dig here" in Mexico.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

_"Hey, look, they marked out my trench location with orange paint and flags! Now I know exactly where to dig! Gee, that was nice of them...."_

-John

EDIT: Dangit Drsparky, you stole my thunder! I want it back.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Most of the conduits that I have fixed always had about 2' to 3' of slack wire pulled out.


Yeah I agree, I had to fix one where a 100 amp feeder was yanked out ripping the breaker and the neutral bar out of position in the panel. The bent the neutral bar around 180 degrees and dragged about 1/3 of a Square D I-Line 100 amp breaker right up to the pipe connector. :jester:


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## paul_arc (Mar 31, 2009)

just curious why you took the time to do a conduit splice instead of just cutting it back on each end, throwing a couple cuplings and new piece of pvc on then re-pull wire. lots of room to work in there.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I have posted these before but they go good with this thread.:laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

paul_arc said:


> just curious why you took the time to do a conduit splice instead of just cutting it back on each end, throwing a couple cuplings and new piece of pvc on then re-pull wire. lots of room to work in there.


From the break back to an easy to work in hand hole was about 200'. The other direction from the break turns up in a very fancy sign that even once opened up would be tough to work from. that was about 300' from the break.

So with me being alone and all the other guys to busy to come by I was not about to try to yank out a 500' run of four 8 AWGs and then pull them back in.

It took me about an hours total working time to cut off the damaged sections of 2" and then split some 2.5 to repair to repair the 2"


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah I agree, I had to fix one where a 100 amp feeder was yanked out ripping the breaker and the neutral bar out of position in the panel. The bent the neutral bar around 180 degrees and dragged about 1/3 of a Square D I-Line 100 amp breaker right up to the pipe connector. :jester:


 That is exactly what happened in these pic's.


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## paul_arc (Mar 31, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> From the break back to an easy to work in hand hole was about 200'. The other direction from the break turns up in a very fancy sign that even once opened up would be tough to work from. that was about 300' from the break.
> 
> So with me being alone and all the other guys to busy to come by I was not about to try to yank out a 500' run of four 8 AWGs and then pull them back in.
> 
> It took me about an hours total working time to cut off the damaged sections of 2" and then split some 2.5 to repair to repair the 2"


Oh it looked to me like the wire was cut in half, if not then I would of done the same thing as you.:jester:


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

What did you use to cut the 2½"? The cut looks like its perfectly down the middle.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> What did you use to cut the 2½"? The cut looks like its perfectly down the middle.


The pictures lie. :laughing:

I free handed it with a sawzall with an 'Axe' demo blade.

I split 20' of 2.5" and about 15' of it came out pretty good, the other 5' look like a drunk cut them. :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't see what the big fuss is.. (4) 12X12 PVC boxes and a can of Scotchkote.. problem solved :jester:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> a can of Scotchkote..



I knew I forget something, I should have covered the entire repair with it. :thumbup:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

This was one of the worst conduit we had to fix. Track hoe operator hit it. We had to rent a compressor and a 90 pound jack hammer to even get to the conduit. It took one guy 4 or 5 days to chip the concrete up.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

william1978 said:


> This was one of the worst conduit we had to fix. Track hoe operator hit it. We had to rent a compressor and a 90 pound jack hammer to even get to the conduit. It took one guy 3 days top chip the concrete up.


We had to fix an encased 4" PVC and repull the conductors in one over night.

A saw cutter while cutting exactly where he was told to by the GC that had our as builts that clearly showed the bank of eight 4" PVC containing service conductors.

The saw cutter hit one of the eight sets lengthwise and made it a foot or two before it shorted and literally knocked out the neighbor hood.

For a quick fix we simply lifted that set of conductors off at each end but within a week or two we had to go back and watch while a cement cutting contractor cleared the area around the damage, tuned out the damage was right in an offset so that made it more interesting. No 4" hot box so we used a 2" hot box with two electric heat guns to heat the 4" PVC to make the offset. :jester:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Here is a few more that the same operator got.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> We had to fix an encased 4" PVC and repull the conductors in one over night.
> 
> A saw cutter while cutting exactly where he was told to by the GC that had our as builts that clearly showed the bank of eight 4" PVC containing service conductors.
> 
> ...


 Sounded like you just needed to pour the quart of glue on the conduit and strike a match and let it burn for just a few seconds.:jester:

The picture's that I posted were not being used yet. I had run about 10,000' of 6" and was tring to put a string in the conduits when we found this break.


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## Article 90.1 (Feb 14, 2009)

Some of the bigger supply houses stock this split duct product, which works really well as "backhoe bandaging."

http://www.conduitrepair.com/product_splitDuctConduit.html


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Article 90.1 said:


> Some of the bigger supply houses stock this split duct product, which works really well as "backhoe bandaging."
> 
> http://www.conduitrepair.com/product_splitDuctConduit.html


 Great link. I have never seen this product before.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I have used this type 

http://www.conduitrepairkit.com/



but I had the 2.5" in stock 5 minutes from the job.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Around Eighty Four,Pa. When the operater hits marker tape,he shuts down for a verification.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

bobelectric said:


> Around Eighty Four,Pa. When the operater hits marker tape,he shuts down for a verification.


 OK.:thumbsup:


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

As I remember, the last time I had to purchase 4" pvc repair kits, they cost $125.00 each.


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

We were digging around a 2" plastic gas main a couple years ago with our trencher backhoe. I had uncovered the pipe with a spade and the opperator (another electrician) pushed when he should have pulled. Things got real exciting shortly there after.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

JTMEYER said:


> We were digging around a 2" plastic gas main a couple years ago with our trencher backhoe. I had uncovered the pipe with a spade and the opperator (another electrician) pushed when he should have pulled. Things got real exciting shortly there after.


I had a similar thing happen on a job I was on, only it was not anything I was involved in. They drilled a post hole through a plastic gas line. The contractor got a bill for the gas that was released from the time the 911 call went in until the gas company came out to shut it off. I guess they can calculate that from the pipe size. That was in addition to the repair work.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

So do you have to give the operator 10% for the good lead?


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## Podagrower (Mar 16, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> So do you have to give the operator 10% for the good lead?


Ha:thumbup:


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

JTMEYER said:


> We were digging around a 2" plastic gas main a couple years ago with our trencher backhoe. I had uncovered the pipe with a spade and the opperator (another electrician) pushed when he should have pulled. Things got real exciting shortly there after.


First week on the job with this company we pulled up a six inch gas pipe feeding the town a few miles from us. That was pretty scary you could see the gas just pouring out. Thankfully the utitlity company got out pretty quick and capped it in time, the town almost lost all their gas pressure. That would have turned a $2500 bill into a really big bill!


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## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

I never heard if anybody got a bill. This kid cut that thing completely in two. I didn't know how much pressure that gas was under. It was making the orange plastic snow fence wave like a flag in the breeze, and it was 10 feeet away. I called the gas company and told them we cut the line and she asked if I was sure, I said yes I'm sure. Then she asked if I coud smell gas. I told her I couldn't because I was upwind, but the cop that just showed up said he could smell it 20 blocks away. They had a crew there in 15 minutes. What was really amazing was that every cop in town drove their cars RIGHT UP NEXT TO THE HOLE, AND LEFT THEM IDLE. As soon as we would get one to move another one would show up.


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## Lone Crapshooter (Nov 8, 2008)

Has anyone thought about using a hydrovac contractor to dig around utilities. Badger Daylighting does that kind of work. www.badgerinc.com
I must tell you that I am a stockholder.


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## Comingler (Jun 4, 2010)

I've never seen a repair method like that, looks nice and easy. Is that completely code compliant?

As for slicing PVC, sometimes I'll slice one side to use as protection on sharp metal. To do this I will clamp down* an angle grinder so the blade is a set height above a tabletop. Then I will slide the length of PVC on the table down past the grinder slicing it perfectly straight. Do this again on the other side to cut it into two pieces.

*If you have another guy with you, he can just hold the grinder in position above the table.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Comingler said:


> I've never seen a repair method like that, looks nice and easy. Is that completely code compliant?


I will have to say I doubt it.


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## Comingler (Jun 4, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> I will have to say I doubt it.


No? Then why did you do it?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Comingler said:


> No? Then why did you do it?


 We have all done it. I have done that exact same thing on several temporary conduits.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Comingler said:


> No? Then why did you do it?


Because I am a terrible person who deserves to be dragged behind a power company line truck.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> Because I am a terrible person who deserves to be dragged behind a power company line truck.


 Could I drive the truck?????:jester::jester::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Comingler (Jun 4, 2010)

william1978 said:


> We have all done it. I have done that exact same thing on several temporary conduits.


Ok, but why would you do a non code compliant installation? Chances are you made *less* money doing it the wrong way anyway. So what is the benefit? When is it ok to not follow code?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

william1978 said:


> Could I drive the truck?????:laughing:



:lol::lol:

I should have figured there would be volunteers. :jester:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Comingler said:


> Ok, but why would you do a non code compliant installation? Chances are you made *less* money doing it the wrong way anyway. So what is the benefit?


Yes money wise it would have made much more sense to cause a regular customer delays to a job that needs to move quickly. 



> When is it ok to not follow code?


Never

When is it OK to break any law? 

But I bet you do break some laws.

By the way, you would not happen to be one of the regular trolls around here would you?


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## Comingler (Jun 4, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> Yes money wise it would have made much more sense to cause a regular customer delays to a job that needs to move quickly.


 So because the customer needs to move quickly, it is ok to break code? And at the same time, make less profit for your company? Is that logical? Are you saying that your customers are the type to go with another contractor if you are not willing to break the code to get the job done faster?



> Never
> 
> When is it OK to break any law?
> 
> But I bet you do break some laws.


 If I did break a law, I would not air it out and then get sarcastic and arrogant when someone asked why I did what I did.


> By the way, you would not happen to be one of the regular trolls around here would you?


Is asking why you knowingly broke the code really considered "trolling"?

I'm sorry if I am "making waves", I just don't find this type of thing normal. Breaking code and then getting an attitude when questioned about it. I come here to learn from professionals. Good thing I asked or else I might have copied your work one day and wondered why it failed...


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Comingler said:


> Ok, but why would you do a non code compliant installation? Chances are you made *less* money doing it the wrong way anyway. So what is the benefit? When is it ok to not follow code?


All of the ones that I did were on temporary installations that would be pulled out within a year. I don't see any issues with doing it on temp. power.


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## Comingler (Jun 4, 2010)

william1978 said:


> All of the ones that I did were on temporary installations that would be pulled out within a year. I don't see any issues with doing it on temp. power.


I don't see a big issue with temp power either. Most temp power has open air splices, exposed romex, etc. etc.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Comingler said:


> I don't see a big issue with temp power either. Most temp power has open air splices, exposed romex, etc. etc.


 I understand That would be the only place that I would do it. I would pull out the wire or use one of those conduit repair kits that were posted earlier in this thread.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

That conduit repair stuff is garbage, It comes in five foot lengths I think. I needed some a couple years ago and ordered a length of a few different sizes. It really doesn't conform to any pipes and leave's huge gap's between it and the original pipe. I have used it twice and been disappointed both times. It may be okay for a fix that is your fault, but for a paying customer I think the old fashion way of pulling out the conductors, repairing and re pulling is the way to go. Or pull back and ad a j-box or two.


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## John Valdes (May 17, 2007)

If you would have had a reliable guy from the operators local doing your digging you might just not have to fix so many busted conduits.........LOL


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

John Valdes said:


> If you would have had a reliable guy from the operators local doing your digging you might just not have to fix so many busted conduits.........LOL


 Who are you talking to? The one Bob posted and all of the ones that I have talked about have been done by other trades.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

I personally never get upset when my conduits get dug up. 

As long as they were installed properly and to code, and are properly marked on the redlines, it is money.

People make mistakes and I am sure the guy on the machine did not mean to do this.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

walkerj said:


> I personally never get upset when my conduits get dug up.
> 
> As long as they were installed properly and to code, and are properly marked on the redlines, it is money.
> 
> People make mistakes and I am sure the guy on the machine did not mean to do this.


That's the way I see it too, I don't mind doing shovel work outside, nice change of pace for me.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> That's the way I see it too, I don't mind doing shovel work outside, nice change of pace for me.


 Me personally I would rather do underground work than any other type of electrical work.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

william1978 said:


> Me personally I would rather do underground work than any other type of electrical work.


 
Me, too:thumbsup:

Nothing like the smell of hot PVC and diesel fuel in the morning


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

walkerj said:


> Me, too:thumbsup:
> 
> Nothing like the smell of hot PVC and diesel fuel in the morning


 Don't forget dirt and concrete.:thumbsup:


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

My least favorite part is pumping water and/or dirt glued to my skin


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

walkerj said:


> My least favorite part is pumping water and/or dirt glued to my skin


 I hate pumping water also. I hate glue in a cut.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

John Valdes said:


> If you would have had a reliable guy from the operators local doing your digging you might just not have to fix so many busted conduits.........LOL


He may have been union, that customer uses a mixed assortment of contractors.

At any rate the excavation work had nothing to do with me or the company I work for.


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Hey Bob not trying to dis you but the orange paint and and orange markers really doesn't say anything to me if I was an excavator. Maybe the yellow ribbon marked ELECTRICAL might have worked better. Like someone said earlier, orange paint means dig here in spanish.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Red paint is used to mark power here.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Hey Bob not trying to dis you but the orange paint and and orange markers really doesn't say anything to me if I was an excavator. Maybe the yellow ribbon marked ELECTRICAL might have worked better. Like someone said earlier, orange paint means dig here in spanish.


Orange typically means communications, so they should have taken extra care. Blue for water, green for sewer, orange for communications, and red for electrical. White for the proposed excavation site. There's other colors too, but I forget them. Purple for something.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)




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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

But those are useless if the workers don't know what they mean.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Hey Bob not trying to dis you but the orange paint and and orange markers really doesn't say anything to me if I was an excavator.


How about the fact you where told the markings indicate buried electrical conduits? :jester:


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> How about the fact you where told the markings indicate buried electrical conduits? :jester:


 Me no speak english.:no:


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> How about the fact you where told the markings indicate buried electrical conduits? :jester:


Makes ya nuts doesn't it?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

The excavator is a dope, "Look flags and spray paint let's dig here with reckless abandon."


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

you guys are hard. that damn pipe was right in the way for digging that footing. I think he did a pretty good job .


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

That would be an awful lot to hand dig out, probably worth the risk.


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> _That would be an awful lot to hand dig out_, probably worth the risk.


I guess you have never met Al.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

walkerj said:


> I guess you have never met Al.


who's Al?


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

Al is the man.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

I think it about time for another pic of Al.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I am game, Who's Al?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> I am game, Who's Al?


 You can find Al here.http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/als-well-ends-well-9876/


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## john120/240 (May 28, 2010)

Should there be RED tape "Danger buried electrical below" ?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

There really should be a sign that reads hey jackass there are electrical conduits below so don't be a dopey backhoe operator.


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## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

I could use an Al from time to time, does he come with a case?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> I could use an Al from time to time, does he come with a case?


 If you talk to Chris Kennedy he just might sub him out to you.:whistling2::jester:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

If anyone is interested it passed inspection no problem, the inspector said he would have done the same thing. :thumbsup:


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

inspection ? you got it inspected ? wow. what did he say about the romex in the pipe ? hehe


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Comingler said:


> So because the customer needs to move quickly, it is ok to break code? And at the same time, make less profit for your company? Is that logical? Are you saying that your customers are the type to go with another contractor if you are not willing to break the code to get the job done faster?
> 
> If I did break a law, I would not air it out and then get sarcastic and arrogant when someone asked why I did what I did.
> Is asking why you knowingly broke the code really considered "trolling"?
> ...


 
How does it feel to be on the other side Bob? :laughing: That's exACTLY what you sound like when you badger me about my occaisional unothodox work methods.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> How does it feel to be on the other side Bob? :laughing:


Man where have you been, the day I posted it I expected to hear this. :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I've been busy/out of town but......welcome to the dark side.


If it matters, I have done the same type of repair a few times. My only concern is the square egde when someone tries to repull wires but it's not the worst thing in the world.

Was there any wire scuffage?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Was there any wire scuffage?


No, only four -6 AWGs in a 2" and they where untouched.

I am back at the site at this moment because the customer decided this morning to add two hand holes for future. 

Wish they had asked for that before the repairs.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

You are on site and posting on the internet?

Get to work :jester:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Sitting in my truck waiting on the inspector watching the great sights at this place.:thumbsup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Sitting in my truck waiting on the inspector watching the great sights at this place.:thumbsup:


 

Me too:thumbsup:


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## walkerj (May 13, 2007)

Al can also change light bulbs with a shovel:whistling2:


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