# Nordyne Furnace Supply Wiring



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You can not hook up the 5 kw strip as long as the controls are not part of that circuit. Normally these units get a 90 amp ocpd or a dp 60 and a dp30 if they are designed for 2 circuits. 

My guess is that the 5 kw strip can be bypassed but look at the internal wiring first and make sure


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> You can not hook up the 5 kw strip as long as the controls are not part of that circuit. Normally these units get a 90 amp ocpd or a dp 60 and a dp30 if they are designed for 2 circuits.
> 
> My guess is that the 5 kw strip can be bypassed but look at the internal wiring first and make sure


I'm not an HVAC guy but it looks like maybe there is a couple of wires that interconnect between the two contactors. I'm not really going to do any of the wiring in the furnace other than the supply circuits, but I wanted to know if I could eliminate the 5KW portion, only running 1 60A circuit.
They are tight on spaces left in the panel and having to run just one (not the 90A) would help with that.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

*HVAC Guys*



Little-Lectric said:


> I have been asked to hook up a service to a Mobile Home. Also a few branch circuits. One of which is an electric Nordyne furnace. The furnace is inside the home and they will have a A/C outside.
> The furnace is a 15.4KW including the blowers, 15KW for the heating elements. This is a used furnace they put in to replace a gas furnace.
> 
> The nameplate and cut sheet says it can be wired as dual service or single service. The unit has (2) 60A breakers in it and are only for short circuit protection and not to protect the service conductors. There are 3 heating elements. I believe one of the breakers is for two of the elements @ 10KW. That would be fed from a 60A breaker in the panel.
> ...


Any HVAC guys want to chime in on this?


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

What if you disconnect the load wiring on the 5kw contactor ? Leave the control wiring alone.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

dronai said:


> What if you disconnect the load wiring on the 5kw contactor ? Leave the control wiring alone.



That's what I said I would like to do. I said I wasn't doing anything in the unit other than connecting the supply.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

You will need to change the blower speed from med-low to low if you are only going to be running 10KW. Looking at the prints provided, you will just not hook up anything to the other 30A breaker, it is soley for the other 5KW element, nothing else. Just move the correct blower speed wire to the heating pin on the board, should be the red wire. the yellow wire from the blower should be connected now, as is. :thumbsup:


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)




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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

and the reason that jumping from the main supply to the heat kit is that the elements come on one at a time through heat sequencers. You'll be fine, just make sure you use wire rated to handle the load of both the blower and the heat kit.

Done deal.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Roadhouse said:


>


Picture is kind of dark and can't tell for sure but it looks like the 60A supply conductors would come in to L1-L2. Then jumper L1-L3 and L2-L4.
Is that right? What does the white wire go to/come from?


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

The white wire in his picture is his feeder, its just not phase taped.


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## dronai (Apr 11, 2011)

Look on the schematics on your link. If you copy the right drawing, and post it here, we can follow it, and figure this out.


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

Its not that complicated, all you have to do is what I stated earlier.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> You will need to change the blower speed from med-low to low if you are only going to be running 10KW. Looking at the prints provided, you will just not hook up anything to the other 30A breaker, it is soley for the other 5KW element, nothing else. Just move the correct blower speed wire to the heating pin on the board, should be the red wire. the yellow wire from the blower should be connected now, as is. :thumbsup:


*The pin out (page 20) shows the red as low and the yellow is med-low. If you leave the yellow where it is, it would still be med-low. What am I missing?*



sstlouis03 said:


> The white wire in his picture is his feeder, its just not phase taped.


*
I was looking for the supply conductors to come from the right in the pic. I think I can barely see another black wire landing there. But neither wire looks like a #6 which is what size they should be.
If nothing should be connected to L2-L3, why is it jumped? Wouldn't that still make the 5KW heater come on?*



sstlouis03 said:


> Its not that complicated, all you have to do is what I stated earlier.


*Also, the actual model of the unit is E3EB-15H. I didn't see a schematic for that exact model listed. However I think it would be the same as what is shown. The difference between the E3H and E3EB is the EH is heat only 2 speed, and the EB is for A/C with a 4 speed blower.*


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

The guy emailed me some pics that might help. One is a little fuzzy and they are small, but maybe you can still make them out.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> The white wire in his picture is his feeder, its just not phase taped.


Correct, it was existing from a different installer who screwed the wiring all to hell and back. Heat was coming on in cooling mode and cool in heat and it was just a mess. Not to mention both systems were overcharged, tripped out on high limit.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

Nordyne, Stylequest, Intertherm are all the same units with different names on them, all built for manufactured homes. The only difference in these electric air handlers versus a residential air handler is that the heat trips are closer to combustible material in residential air handlers, closer to the exiting air. These heat strips are more in the middle of the unit.

No heat strip should come on without a low voltage call for heat to activate a heat sequencer.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Roadhouse said:


> Nordyne, Stylequest, Intertherm are all the same units with different names on them, all built for manufactured homes. The only difference in these electric air handlers versus a residential air handler is that the heat trips are closer to combustible material in residential air handlers, closer to the exiting air. These heat strips are more in the middle of the unit.
> 
> No heat strip should come on without a low voltage call for heat to activate a heat sequencer.



Back in your pics, you show jumping from one breaker to another. Wouldn't that make the 5KW heating elements come on? Wouldn't both the 10 KW and 5 KW come on. leaving the 60A in the panel to supply both? 
Although I probably won't be the one to do anything in the unit, I don't want to tell them something that is wrong. 
Can you clarify this a little for me? Including what to do with the blower speed wires?


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> You will need to change the blower speed from med-low to low if you are only going to be running 10KW. Looking at the prints provided, you will just not hook up anything to the other 30A breaker, it is soley for the other 5KW element, nothing else. Just move the correct blower speed wire to the heating pin on the board, should be the red wire. the yellow wire from the blower should be connected now, as is. :thumbsup:





Little-Lectric said:


> *The pin out (page 20) shows the red as low and the yellow is med-low. If you leave the yellow where it is, it would still be med-low. What am I missing?*
> 
> 
> *
> ...





Little-Lectric said:


> Back in your pics, you show jumping from one breaker to another. Wouldn't that make the 5KW heating elements come on? Wouldn't both the 10 KW and 5 KW come on. leaving the 60A in the panel to supply both?
> Although I probably won't be the one to do anything in the unit, I don't want to tell them something that is wrong.
> Can you clarify this a little for me? Including what to do with the blower speed wires?



Bump!!!


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

Little-Lectric said:


> *The pin out (page 20) shows the red as low and the yellow is med-low. If you leave the yellow where it is, it would still be med-low. What am I missing?*
> 
> Becasue if you make it into a 10KW instead of a 15KW, you will achieve better heating by lowering the speed of the fan. Refer to the page in the PDF you posted about blower speed, for 10KW you will see that they are utilizing the lowest speed.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late reply.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> Sorry for the late reply.





> Then you should still be utilizing the red wire for you blower speed. All the other internals should be exactly the same. You can hook this up just like the prints, jumper the breakers and everything, then simply remove the jumper (probably about 6") from the heat seq. to the element and you will only be running the 10KW that your wanting. I have done this several times before, best of all, when one of the other elements fails in 10 years, haha right after the warrenty goes out, you can just swap it with the one you havent been using*.*


So which would be better, not connecting anything to circuit B or jumpering it and removing the wire from the heat seq. to the element?

Also, the way I read the prints, I would need to just remove the yellow wire, or the lead to the yellow and replace it with red, Is that correct?
What would that do to the A/C?
I just noticed on page 20 a note at the top listed "Important" It says if a relay box is installed, and I believe there is according to the model #, the blower speeds are set inside that. It says to set it to low or med-low. Does that change your thoughts any, other than where to change the blower settings?

Thanks for your help!


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

Little-Lectric said:


> So which would be better, not connecting anything to circuit B or jumpering it and removing the wire from the heat seq. to the element?
> 
> *It doesnt matter, personally i would just remove the jumper to the element.*
> 
> ...


.........


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> .........


Thanks Again!!!:thumbsup:


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

I just hope that person whom use the electrique furance will realized that the heat output will be less than the gaz unit do dish out.

So the common gaz furance what I know they useally use 50 to 70 KBTU depending on the area it used so therefore with electrique heat in there the 15 KW will useally crank out about 51-54 KBTU while you down step to 10 KW it will be about 34- 37 KBTU so it will have less heat than gaz furnace unless it did came with very small burner size then it can be ok.

Merci,
Marc


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

I've yet to see a manufactured home with city supplied natural gas to the entire neighborhood. They can buy a propane tank and add a natural gas to lp conversion kit onto a gas furnace but with a propane tank, it's mainly used to heat water in manufactured homes, heaters still electric.

I've only seen electric.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

Maybe I'm missing something, I still haven't looked at the link, but you should never have to disconnect any heat control component. Heat will not come on until a low voltage control is sent for it to come on. There is never, ever, ever a need to disconnect a heat sequencer. 

Everyone keeps talking about removing a wire to an element (for some reason) and I'm thinking to send that unit back to Nordyne. :thumbup:


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## sstlouis03 (Jun 23, 2011)

Roadhouse said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, I still haven't looked at the link, but you should never have to disconnect any heat control component. Heat will not come on until a low voltage control is sent for it to come on. There is never, ever, ever a need to disconnect a heat sequencer.
> 
> Everyone keeps talking about removing a wire to an element (for some reason) and I'm thinking to send that unit back to Nordyne. :thumbup:


The only reason for disconnecting the element is because the OP didn't think he needed all 15KW of heat. That is why I suggested just disconnecting the jumper from the sequencer to the element which while not common is done from time to time when the extra 5KW is not needed.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I have a 10 kw. air handler in my home. Last air handler had 2 stage heat and i kept 2 stage off. Hope you don't get called out Christmas Eve on a no heat call.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

sstlouis03 said:


> The only reason for disconnecting the element is because the OP didn't think he needed all 15KW of heat. That is why I suggested just disconnecting the jumper from the sequencer to the element which while not common is done from time to time when the extra 5KW is not needed.


Without a new heat load calculation it should be wired as it was but okay.


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## mgraw (Jan 14, 2011)

I think this is the first time I agree with Roadhouse. The unit should be wired as it was. However if all you want to do is eliminate the 5kw strip just don't feed power to breaker B. Don't do anything else.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

15kw of heat strips equates to an approximate 51k+ btu's. Without knowing the specs of the home (heat load) and doubting it's maybe 1300, possibly 1400 sq ft max I'd say it loses at least that much per hour and that is what heating does for a home, replace what is lost per hour. In other words I would leave the heat strips alone. 

I usually put in 15kw down here or the manufactured homes already have them in. Most regular residentials are at least 75k btu output, on average.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

10kw of heat is 34k+ btu's per hour. If the home is losing 35k, 40k, 45k or more btu's per hour which it will especially in the heart of Winter than that air handler and heat strips will never shut off. Super high electrical bill and possibly burnt fusible link or broken heat strips not to mention very cold tenants.


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Roadhouse said:


> 10kw of heat is 34k+ btu's per hour. If the home is losing 35k, 40k, 45k or more btu's per hour which it will especially in the heart of Winter than that air handler and heat strips will never shut off. Super high electrical bill and possibly burnt fusible link or broken heat strips not to mention very cold tenants.


@Roadhouse:
What was the reason you showed/said to jumper from breaker A to breaker B? If you did that and didn't somehow prevent the 5K element from coming on wouldn't you be running the entire 15K load off of the 60A supply circuit?

The cut sheet says for the 15KW load, you should either run both a 60A and a 30A supply circuit for the supply or one 90A circuit. The 60A would supply the 10KW, circuit A (2 elements) and the 30A would supply the 5KW, circuit B (one element). Or if you just run the single 90A, you should use an adapter to change the 2-circuit to 1 circuit.

I just need to know what size supply circuit to run to the unit. I will leave it to them to do anything inside the unit.
I also thought that 15KW was overkill for a normal size mobile home. It probable is less than 1000 sq. ft.

I don't know what size the gas furnace was that they replaced. I do know that natural gas isn't an option where this home is located.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Little-Lectric said:


> @Roadhouse:
> What was the reason you showed/said to jumper from breaker A to breaker B? If you did that and didn't somehow prevent the 5K element from coming on wouldn't you be running the entire 15K load off of the 60A supply circuit?


I did take a look at the diagram and if you leave one breaker off ( 30 amp 2P ) the 5 KW unit will not engerized but the contractor will be engerized due they are tied together to the main contractor for 10 KW section.




> The cut sheet says for the 15KW load, you should either run both a 60A and a 30A supply circuit for the supply or one 90A circuit. The 60A would supply the 10KW, circuit A (2 elements) and the 30A would supply the 5KW, circuit B (one element). Or if you just run the single 90A, you should use an adapter to change the 2-circuit to 1 circuit.


If I recall you say something about only a extra two pole circuit avaiable from the main panel then you can go with 90 amp circuit ( the owner can able enable second breaker if the home still not warm engough ) 



> I just need to know what size supply circuit to run to the unit. I will leave it to them to do anything inside the unit.
> I also thought that 15KW was overkill for a normal size mobile home. It probable is less than 1000 sq. ft.


Not really if you have 4 inch wall unless you have 6 inch wall then it will be better. I have one of my freind live in the mobile home with 6 inch walls and he did not pay huge amout for gaz bill IIRC about 150 Euros ( Dollars ) but one other guy whom I know him he did have 2 inch wall that pretty much kill his budget on fuel cost to keep the place warm in winter time ( 600+ USD )



> I don't know what size the gas furnace was that they replaced. I do know that natural gas isn't an option where this home is located.


Can they use LGP ( Propane gaz ) in their area ? 

If so that will be better answer but I will leave the heat caluation to Roadhouse he may know something up there.

How cold it do get in your area ?

Merci,
Marc


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I'm thinking these smart meters they are putting in are going to start charging demand factors.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

Little-Lectric said:


> @Roadhouse:
> What was the reason you showed/said to jumper from breaker A to breaker B? If you did that and didn't somehow prevent the 5K element from coming on wouldn't you be running the entire 15K load off of the 60A supply circuit?
> 
> The cut sheet says for the 15KW load, you should either run both a 60A and a 30A supply circuit for the supply or one 90A circuit. The 60A would supply the 10KW, circuit A (2 elements) and the 30A would supply the 5KW, circuit B (one element). Or if you just run the single 90A, you should use an adapter to change the 2-circuit to 1 circuit.
> ...



Each 5kw of heat at 240 volts pulls 20.8 amps. The blower motor may pull about 2.8 or 2.9. 

I'd use what Dennis has already said and what is stated in the manual, one single 90 circuit, or one dedicated 60 and one dedicated 30.


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

mgraw said:


> I think this is the first time I agree with Roadhouse. The unit should be wired as it was. However if all you want to do is eliminate the 5kw strip just don't feed power to breaker B. Don't do anything else.


If you do this than you're looking at a total of under 45 amps for the 10kw and the blower motor. Now you could save a slight bit of money (less material), I guess it could be said less headache, less work, less time and still be to code on one single 60 amp circuit.

You can always either not say anything or tell them if they feel they need it that on later date than you can add the circuit, if they want to save some money in the meantime. Then at that time,(or even at the time of the single 60 circuit), you can test it yourself; jump from the 60 to the 30 and simply test your amperage rate of draw. You may find that in actuality you do not need that 30 amp circuit. I never have. 

Something.


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## mgraw (Jan 14, 2011)

Are you saying in the future put the whole 15kw on the 60 amp circuit?


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

maybe. :thumbup:


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Roadhouse said:


> If you do this than you're looking at a total of under 45 amps for the 10kw and the blower motor. Now you could save a slight bit of money (less material), I guess it could be said less headache, less work, less time and still be to code on one single 60 amp circuit.
> 
> You can always either not say anything or tell them if they feel they need it that on later date than you can add the circuit, if they want to save some money in the meantime. Then at that time,(or even at the time of the single 60 circuit), you can test it yourself; jump from the 60 to the 30 and simply test your amperage rate of draw. You may find that in actuality you do not need that 30 amp circuit. I never have.
> 
> Something.





mgraw said:


> Are you saying in the future put the whole 15kw on the 60 amp circuit?





Roadhouse said:


> maybe. :thumbup:


You guys confuse me more than my wife!:jester:
one 60A circuit? (connect only to circuit A)
one 60A circuit? (jump circuits A & B)
one 60A & one 30A circuit? (connect both A & B)
one 90A circuit? (instead of adapter, jumper A to B)

Pepperoni or Ham?:laughing:


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

My two cents.... Why re-invent the wheel? I would just run a 90A feeder to the unit from the panel, and adapt it so it can supply the 30 and 60 amp breakers that are mounted on the furnace. Let the customer decide if he needs all 15kW of heat or not. Looking at the schematic, as long as the 30A breaker is off, the 5kW element will not be energized whether the contactor is pulled in or not. Also, if the 10kW isn't getting it, all the owner has to do is close the 30A breaker. Just a thot....
-Jim


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## Roadhouse (Oct 16, 2010)

Looky at what I just found in my old roommate's garage.! I'm going to go through the wiring on it in a bit, why I kept it in the first place. And some extra 10kw @ 240 volts/ 7.5kw @ 208 heating elements with tranny and breakers.















































And surprise!! I had to leave Duchess with my old roommates when I recently moved (I actually brought her home for the little girl in the first place last year) and she just last week had four puppies of her own! She was so damn happy to see me, she actually left her pups and came came running out of her dog house to greet me and lick my face, all wiggly! The older sister was really jealous but too bad. Dogs can tell when you really love 'em. :thumbsup:

Duchess and her four beautiful pups!


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Nice pups (and Mom), I thought you were going to say you found them inside the furnace cabinet.

That's the same unit I have except your's is a 17KW and the one I'm working on is 15KW.

Anyway all this about the furnace is a moot point now as I got the following email this afternoon.



> I am run into some trouble with the trailer and It is hard to say at this point if we are going to keep it.I know you have put some time into researching the furnace and I will pay you for your time but I will not be able to hire you at this time.
> I am so sorry about this but life has a way of throwing things at you and this time I got caught off guard.
> Let me now what I should do about the time and effort you put into this. also any info you got I am still interested in because who know (if ??) and or when I will be working on it.
> Please email me and let me know what you need for you time and again I am very sorry if I have inconvenienced you in any way.


So guess I'll just store all the info on the furnace. 
Thanks to everyone that gave me input on this.:thumbsup:


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