# Changing 60 metal halides over to T8's



## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

We started this one this afternoon, so far so good.


view of part of the factory's MH's











The three in the back are the new T8's


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## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

Looks like a nice and easy money maker project. ... Minus all of the equipment in the way by the looks of things haha


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

JPRO2 said:


> Looks like a nice and easy money maker project. ... Minus all of the equipment in the way by the looks of things haha


Yep it is a nice little project. The equipment isn't a big deal with the articulating boom, you can pretty much park the lift and swing sideways once you're up without moving the base.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

zwodubber said:


> Yep it is a nice little project. The equipment isn't a big deal with the articulating boom, you can pretty much park the lift and swing sideways once you're up without moving the base.


The only spot you really have to watch out is the tracked overhead cranes.

The last time I went up before I actually go up I put a LO/TO on the crane power source to shut it down before I go up in the crane trolley area.

One companie told me that I can rig up a tempory stop block ( that crane did have stop block switch on the wheel so when it get end of travel it stop ) and I told them .,, non merci ( no thanks ) just LO/TO and be done with it.

But for your project that will be a good one for a while.

Best time useally do it when the industrail is not running hevey like on weekend or nite shift ( either way it pretty quiet but weekend is the best when they are not running at all ) 

Merci,
Marc


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Finished up on Friday afternoon, but I did not get any pics of all T8's because I had a service call.


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## electricalwiz (Mar 12, 2011)

zwo where are you located at in PA?


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## ohiosparky99 (Nov 12, 2009)

Are those standard 32w lamps or are they high lumen, are the ballast standard or are they high ballast factor, also did the T8's light the area as well as the Metal
Halides??


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

ohiosparky99 said:


> Are those standard 32w lamps or are they high lumen, are the ballast standard or are they high ballast factor, also did the T8's light the area as well as the Metal
> Halides??


32W and standard 6 lamp fixture. The employees were thanking us as we progressed for the improvement in lighting...


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

electricalwiz said:


> zwo where are you located at in PA?


Lehigh valley


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## JHFWIC (Mar 22, 2012)

Have you tried the hi bays with T5 lamps?


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*stuff*

what type of bulb, ballast, and warranty you giving them ?


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

zwodubber said:


> 32W and standard 6 lamp fixture. The employees were thanking us as we progressed for the improvement in lighting...


What were the original HIDs? 175 or 400?

6 T8 with standard output(0.88) ballast is 12 to 13K lumens net give or take with 90% efficiency reflector using 160-180W

T5HOs are about 5K each and the most common high bay replacements are six lamp giving 25 to 27K net using 340-360watts input.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Electric_Light said:


> What were the original HIDs? 175 or 400?
> 
> 6 T8 with standard output(0.88) ballast is 12 to 13K lumens net give or take with 90% efficiency reflector using 180-200W
> 
> T5HOs are about 5K each and the most common high bay replacements are six lamp giving 25 to 27K net using 340-360watts input.


If Zwodubber mention 400 watter that sound about right. 

I know it look brighter than 175'er is so it kinda safe to say 400 watter but I will let Zwodubber confirm this question to ya.

Merci,
Marc


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## Electric_Light (Apr 6, 2010)

> I know it look brighter than 175'er is so it kinda safe to say 400 watter but I will let Zwodubber confirm this question to ya.
> 
> Merci,
> Marc


Digital camera is not a good device of conveying perceived brightness. Take a picture of your monitor with half the frame showing the wall behind it. The wall "looks" a lot darker in picture, because of dynamic range. 

Since cameras use automatic exposure to adjust for varying light conditions, its not a good way of evaluating lighting condition. It will adjust the aperture, shutter speed and sensor sensitivity in an attempt to get the same exposure value over a wide range of lighting. 



frenchelectrican said:


> If Zwodubber mention 400 watter that sound about right.


This being the lighting design section, I'll go over a few options.

There is a wide range of performance for 400W MH system, so marketing will often present the existing system in the worst possible light. 


All values are rounded off to clean values. 
Lamps 32W T8 2850 mean rated lumens. 
Ballasts: GE UltraMAX
Fixture efficiency 85% 
dust depreciation factor: ignored

1.18 "hi BF" gives 20,000gross/17,000net @ 220W 
0.87 "standard"gives around 15,000/12,500 @ 160W 

Traditional HID ballasts run the lamp at 1.0BF, so BF is ignored here. 
Mean lumen on 400W probe start lamps on M59 magnetic ranges 18-23K and they continue to decay, so a 6 lamp high BF T8 system can easily match it. 

M59 fixtures can accept drop-in 330W Philips CDM lamps rated at 26K mean lumens, 4000K and 90CRI as an alternative to complete retrofit. Energy saving isn't as great, but if they're relamped at next scheduled group replacement, incremental labor cost is zero. Companies that want to sell an install won't tell you about this. 


If you play the marketing magic and assume the existing fixtures have an inefficient optics with 10 yrs of dust, the worst possible lamp nearing end of life, then 12,500 lumen 6-lamp system can get close to 400W probe start. 

M155 pulse start lamps have a range of about 25-33K mean lumens. M155 ballasts can take 330W CDM but won't see any gain in maintained lumen output over 400W PS MH lamps.

To match 400W PS MH system fixture by fixture, then 6-lamp F54T5/HO will do which uses 350W/fixture. F32T8 x 8 works also albeit 10-15% reduction in light along with corresponding reduction on power.


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Metal halides were 400W, I'll get to the other questions in a while... Things to do...


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## zwodubber (Feb 24, 2011)

Cletis said:


> what type of bulb, ballast, and warranty you giving them ?


Everything is philips, not sure what the warranty is I just put them in.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

As an environmentalist, I'll take those things apart for their scrap. If you have a small hex head driver, the cover is aluminum, the shell is cast aluminum, the ballasts are worth money. The only thing you toss are a few small metal pieces. The rest is marginally ok money. If you have enough and get into a good rhythm.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

JHFWIC said:


> Have you tried the hi bays with T5 lamps?


My fave!!!!! For warehouses.


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## SignGuy1980 (May 19, 2012)

kaboler said:


> As an environmentalist, I'll take those things apart for their scrap. If you have a small hex head driver, the cover is aluminum, the shell is cast aluminum, the ballasts are worth money. The only thing you toss are a few small metal pieces. The rest is marginally ok money. If you have enough and get into a good rhythm.



Wonder if you could sell those puppies on CL?


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

Electric_Light said:


> Digital camera is not a good device of conveying perceived brightness. Take a picture of your monitor with half the frame showing the wall behind it. The wall "looks" a lot darker in picture, because of dynamic range.
> 
> Since cameras use automatic exposure to adjust for varying light conditions, its not a good way of evaluating lighting condition. It will adjust the aperture, shutter speed and sensor sensitivity in an attempt to get the same exposure value over a wide range of lighting.
> 
> ...


What do BF and CDM stand for? Those are new to me.

I am not a fan of MH lamps. Whether they are Sylvania or Phillips, the life on them seems to stink, and at one location I have had 6 wallpacks where the lamps melted the diffusers on wallpacks.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

zwodubber said:


> Lehigh valley


im up north of reading!


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

denny3992 said:


> im up north of reading!


what co u work for? ive done some work in lv area!


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