# I am not getting it 210.52(B) (3)



## stillirnin (Jan 24, 2008)

210.52(b) (3) Kitch recept the two 20 amp small appliance circuits can or cant power any other recepts. in same kitchen


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

stillirnin said:


> 210.52(b) (3) Kitch recept the two 20 amp small appliance circuits can or cant power any other recepts. in same kitchen


Yes, it can...pantry breakfast room, or dining rooms outlets...


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Yes, it can...pantry breakfast room, or dining rooms outlets...


 I agree.:thumbsup:


----------



## stillirnin (Jan 24, 2008)

thanx for the reply, I took it as that but was getting bounced around to other articles and it threw me a curve


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

210.52(B)1 The refrigerator can be on one of those 2 small appliance circuits too.


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

ludlam said:


> 210.52(B)1 The refrigerator can be on one of those 2 small appliance circuits too.


 Not here. The refrigerator has to have a dedicated circuit.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Not here. The refrigerator has to have a dedicated circuit.


What a waste. Just open the door and put stuff outside. :laughing:


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> What a waste. Just open the door and put stuff outside.



:laughing::laughing:


----------



## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

ludlam said:


> 210.52(B)1 The refrigerator can be on one of those 2 small appliance circuits too.


The fridge can also be on a seperate 15-amp circuit.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Thats me, I pull a 14/3 for fridge and micro.


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

Bkessler said:


> Thats me, I pull a 14/3 for fridge and micro.


Many microwaves require a 20A circuit. Especially if they are built in with the vent hood.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

BlueBox said:


> Many microwaves require a 20A circuit. Especially if they are built in with the vent hood.


 All of the ones that I have seen require a dedicated 20a cir.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Bkessler said:


> Thats me, I pull a 14/3 for fridge and micro.


I guess you are using DP breakers also for this install because the code police are watching.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I guess you are using DP breakers also for this install because the code police are watching.


 Yep, that too.:thumbsup:


----------



## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I guess you are using DP breakers also for this install because the code police are watching.


There better be a single receptacle for that microwave too (since the code police are watching).


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> There better be a single receptacle for that microwave too (since the code police are watching).


 Why????????????


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I guess you are using DP breakers also for this install because the code police are watching.


Yup, despite CA being on the 2005 still, I don't on panel upgrades and have never been asked to, but I do in the houses I wire, rewire or home runs I pull. I installed an outdoor double duplex with four separate circuits on two two pole 15' last October. And you can see them this Christmas on TLC's invasion of the Christmas lights when it repeats all through December.


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> There better be a single receptacle for that microwave too (since the code police are watching).


I never have, but that's not a bad Idea, ya never know what some looney would plug in there. I think I am going to do that from now on.:thumbsup:


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

I'm still trying to figure out how you're installing microwaves on 15A circuits?

Installed microwaves usually require a 20A circuit. And many installed microwaves have vent hoods built in.


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

Magnettica said:


> There better be a single receptacle for that microwave too (since the code police are watching).


It's not a bad idea. I've never done it that way though. Is there a code that states an individual branch circuit has to be on an single recept and not a duplex. I think they cost a little more and that's why most people use duplex recepts. Damb cheap bosses! :thumbsup:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

ludlam said:


> Is there a code that states an individual branch circuit has to be on an single recept and not a duplex. I think they cost a little more and that's why most people use duplex recepts.


 Is 210.20(B)(1) what you are thinking about?


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I put a single in for all that stuff. How much are you really saving..?


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

BlueBox said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how you're installing microwaves on 15A circuits?
> 
> Installed microwaves usually require a 20A circuit. And many installed microwaves have vent hoods built in.


I just checked mine in the kitchen. It's a 1500watt venting micro made by whirlpool. That's 12.5 amps. So I guess ya its half an amp to much for a 15 amp line.


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

captkirk said:


> I put a single in for all that stuff. How much are you really saving..?


You are making more money on a single receptacle if you are marking your material up correctly.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I think that is one code that is due for an update. Two kit couter is not enough IMO. Figure a George Forman, coffee maker, toaster, and maybe a microwave and fridge.. not to mention so of the other kit gadgets. I get a lot of customers telling me they trip kit breakers from time to time. 
Especially for some of the really bigger homes.


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

william1978 said:


> Is 210.20(B)(1) what you are thinking about?


210.21(B)1 Maybe, not sure it means it has to be an individual recept. Still a good idea to install one though.


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

ludlam said:


> 210.21(B)1 Maybe, not sure it means it has to be an individual recept. Still a good idea to install one though.


 Yea, That was the one that I meant.:thumbsup:


----------



## Bkessler (Feb 14, 2007)

captkirk said:


> I think that is one code that is due for an update. Two kit couter is not enough IMO. Figure a George Forman, coffee maker, toaster, and maybe a microwave and fridge.. not to mention so of the other kit gadgets. I get a lot of customers telling me they trip kit breakers from time to time.
> Especially for some of the really bigger homes.


I agree with that. Although it makes good job security for those of us now in the service sector.


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

captkirk said:


> I think that is one code that is due for an update. Two kit couter is not enough IMO. Figure a George Forman, coffee maker, toaster, and maybe a microwave and fridge.. not to mention so of the other kit gadgets. I get a lot of customers telling me they trip kit breakers from time to time.
> Especially for some of the really bigger homes.


To be honest, I like it the way it is. A good electrician will explain this to the customer and let them decide if they are going to run that much equipment. Most electrician will run a dedicated for the fridge anyway and most new kitchens have a built in microwave with a dedicated circuit.

I think the code should be more about safety and less about convenience.


----------



## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> I agree with that. Although it makes good job security for those of us now in the service sector.


 I agree with that.....Adding outlets and circuits next to adding high hats have become my bread and butter.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

BlueBox said:


> You are making more money on a single receptacle if you are marking your material up correctly.


Just like a smartbox. :laughing:


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

ludlam said:


> I just checked mine in the kitchen. It's a 1500watt venting micro made by whirlpool. That's 12.5 amps. So I guess ya its half an amp to much for a 15 amp line.


Why is that?


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

electricmanscott said:


> Why is that?



80 percent of 15 is 12. 1500watts is 12.5 amps so it's .5 amps over 80 percent. Personally I wouldn't lose any sleep over installing a 15 amp circuit but it is half an amp to small. Just sayen.


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

ludlam said:


> 80 percent of 15 is 12. 1500watts is 12.5 amps so it's .5 amps over 80 percent. Personally I wouldn't lose any sleep over installing a 15 amp circuit but it is half an amp to small. Just sayen.



Check that. I believe that 80 % rule applies to branch circuits.
According to 210.23 "An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated."


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

What does the manufacturer require?


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> You are making more money on a single receptacle if you are marking your material up correctly.


 

This statement coming from a guy who would rather sell a .25 box than a 3 dollar box and break the code while doing it


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> This statement coming from a guy who would rather sell a .25 box than a 3 dollar box and break the code while doing it


:sleep1:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

BlueBox said:


> :sleep1:


 

Petahhhhhhh's back.........or it's his other brother petahhhhhhhhh!


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> I guess you are using DP breakers also for this install because the code police are watching.


 We're not using dp breakers here......Thats the corporate profit NEC code , inspectors are not enforcing it, I'm not doin it.


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Petahhhhhhh's back.........or it's his other brother petahhhhhhhhh!


Brothers have the same name?

BTW, If anyone knows where Peter is, I need to argue with him about using the T5 and running cables over furring strips.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> Brothers have the same name?
> 
> BTW, If anyone knows where Peter is, I need to argue with him about using the T5 and running cables over furring strips.




troll:whistling2:


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> troll:whistling2:


Coming from the guy who is searching out every one of my posts and making childish, immature posts like a little girl.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> Coming from the guy who is searching out every one of my posts and making childish, immature posts like a little girl.




at least I know the code


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

BlueBox said:


> Coming from the guy who is searching out every one of my posts and making childish, immature posts like a little girl.


 

It's his week for troll patrol!:thumbsup:


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> at least I know the code


Not very well :whistling2:


----------



## BlueBox (Jul 12, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> It's his week for troll patrol!:thumbsup:


He's just mad because he made himself look like an idiot in another thread. Instead of manning up and admitting his mistake, he took his ball and left. Then he started searching all my posts to make childish little comments.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

BlueBox said:


> He's just mad because he made himself look like an idiot in another thread. Instead of manning up and admitting his mistake, he took his ball and left. Then he started searching all my posts to make childish little comments.


And you are continuing the childishness. Why don't you both start over and give it a break. Let's try and get along, it's not that hard.


----------



## electricmanscott (Feb 11, 2010)

Dennis Alwon said:


> And you are continuing the childishness. Why don't you both start over and give it a break. Let's try and get along, it's not that hard.


Booooorrrinnggg :laughing:


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

electricmanscott said:


> Booooorrrinnggg :laughing:


I really know how to pop your bubble, don't I.


----------



## BIGRED (Jan 22, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> Thats me, I pull a 14/3 for fridge and micro.


I would do fridge and disposal.


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

BIGRED said:


> I would do fridge and disposal.


What about this dishwasher?


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

ludlam said:


> What about this dishwasher?


 What dishwasher?:whistling2::jester:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

william1978 said:


> What dishwasher?:whistling2::jester:


 

He went "back down south" ain't got no dishwasher anymore.:laughing:


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

jwjrw said:


> He went "back down south" ain't got no dishwasher anymore.:laughing:


 Ok, I got it.:laughing:


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> He went "back down south" ain't got no dishwasher anymore.:laughing:



Hmm, sounds like an inside joke.......:jester:


----------



## ludlam (May 29, 2010)

BlueBox said:


> What does the manufacturer require?



Wired up a Mirco/vent yesterday and checked the manufacturers instructions. 15 or 20 amp is fine. I forget the brand now but I think it was Whirlpool. LOL I think its the first time I ever read the instructions. 
For the record I pulled a 20 amp feed before I even read the instructions.


----------



## humanvoltmeter (May 29, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Not here. The refrigerator has to have a dedicated circuit.


Same. Should be dedicated, but I have seen one or two other convenience receps on the fridge circuit.


----------



## HAND (Jul 15, 2010)

ludlam said:


> What about this dishwasher?


 I've seen that, it works because of the you're not using one whith the other, if it was a 20 it would'nt matter. The 15 does'nt matter either because of the d/w machine cycles.
we're talking 1/3 hp disp motor, maybe 1/2 and they don't run but a few seconds in dwellings.


----------



## HAND (Jul 15, 2010)

If there are any doubts about any two loads you test, wire both loads separately into the panel, stick both wires into the same breaker and turm both appliances on at the same time to the rated settings (heat, and full load).
I am allowed to pop breakers aren't I? I am the darnet electrician even if some people are making 20% on my work.


----------



## kbsparky (Sep 20, 2007)

ludlam said:


> Wired up a Mirco/vent yesterday and checked the manufacturers instructions. 15 or 20 amp is fine. I forget the brand now but I think it was Whirlpool. LOL I think its the first time I ever read the instructions.
> For the record I pulled a 20 amp feed before I even read the instructions.





BlueBox said:


> Many microwaves require a 20A circuit. Especially if they are built in with the vent hood.



I have never seen a microwave/hood unit for use in a dwelling that had a 20 Amp cord on it. All of them had a 15 Amp plug, which works fine in a 15 Amp receptacle.


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

kbsparky said:


> I have never seen a microwave/hood unit for use in a dwelling that had a 20 Amp cord on it. All of them had a 15 Amp plug, which works fine in a 15 Amp receptacle.


Agreed. The only one I ever saw that was 20-amp was a GE Advantium oven/hood combo. I think they're a convection and microwave at the same time, or some such thing.


----------

