# Inspection & Testing UK



## Gavin Adams (Aug 22, 2008)

*Hi all,*
*At work i have started doing the Inspection and testing for the site. Its an Industreal site. I was just wondering if anyone can tell me or give me a table that tells me how often tests should be carried out on diferent typs of properties. thanks*


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

Gavin


Take a look at 622.1. Tests are not time mandatory but there is a recommendation. Since I do not test - I don't have the answer. I can only tell you for sure that with Industrial Construction Sites the period is every 3 months for circuitry and 12 months for site accommodation or at every change of location. Someone will know though

Frank


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Are you in NIC or ECA? ask them, they don't bite [well, not much]
I do a lot of testing, usually at frequencies dictated by Insurance companies or the client / architect. Notwithstanding the comments by Frank regarding constuction sites etc.

If you have not done this before be VERY CAREFUL what you write down *AND even more careful about what you don't write down!!.*

If you cannot get to the 'lights in the roof ' due to access restrictions either due to Elf n safety or clients restrictions then *put it on the report*, trust me; you'll thank me later...really you will! Remember, it's your name on the cert, pass or fail, satisfactory or unsatisfactory, your name

How much experience have you got of this sort of thing, just curious, not judgemental

Frank, Eco, Cornish, and others...over to you


on a lighter note; 'the Man' has been 'The Man' has gone and all the boxes are ticked for another year:thumbsup:


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## Gavin Adams (Aug 22, 2008)

*Hi to you both. frank and trimix.*
*thanks for your feedback on this. i have had a look at the regs and it as you say trimix only puts down a recomended time of testing according to the use and nature of the instalation. i am only now startring to put my testing quoly into practice so am still a little rough round the edges. *
*im not totaly sure but i think the min amount of the instalation that needs to be tested is 33% if i am wrong please tell me.*
*at the moment i am playing catch up for the company i work for so they can tell health and safety and the insurance company everything is ok. after that im looking to put a ppm in place. the regs says that if ther is a goog ppm in place that i can do away with the inspection and testing every year or so.*

*i have done a few test.*
*one circuit had a reading of 0.22 mega ohms on the insulation test. Fail*
*two circuits i tested have faild the rcd test. the Rcbo s. one operated at47.2ms and the other at 148.9ms both fail. so at the moment three have some work needed to be done on them...lol*


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Gavin Adams said:


> *at the moment i am playing catch up for the company i work for so they can tell health and safety and the insurance company everything is ok *remeber what i said before...it's your signature. the buck stops with you*. after that im looking to put a ppm in place. the regs says that if ther is a goog ppm in place that i can do away with the inspection and testing every year or so.*
> 
> *i have done a few test.*
> *one circuit had a reading of 0.22 mega ohms on the insulation test. Fail *are you sure that EVERYTHING was dissc'td, sounds like you may have missed something...snubber, cap, coil, HF fitting, choke, neon in a socket
> *two circuits i tested have faild the rcd test. the Rcbo s. one operated at47.2ms and the other at 148.9ms both fail. *what current setting on tester X5 or X1? What about retest AFTER you have used the onboard button?*so at the moment three have some work needed to be done on them...lol*


Are you meters calibrated correctly? many many many issues / questions.

Look on Martindales web site about testing and tolerances and parameters...you will be surprised how something that is 'satisfactory and acceptable' can be so varied

a phrase stolen from the IRAQ war 'Not in my name'....I keep going on and on and on and on about it but.....you know the rest by now


Frank etcetera....Am I being too (cannot think of the word, sorry)


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## frank (Feb 6, 2007)

Pedantic. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


You have to have the back covered 'cos the Judge and his cronies will be looking for someone to blame. Make sure it's not one of us.

Frank


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## cornishsparks (Oct 14, 2007)

I always put on the cetificate what the limitations are on a test and inspect, its impossible to ever get 100% of the installation tested.
But in a 'blame culture' i always find this worrying if any thing ever happpened you will brought to account by your own signature of guilt.
I hate Commercial testing especially for entertainment licences and caravan sites when there is a high chance of failiure of RCD'S etc betwen tests.
You always know your in trouble when the client asks you 'Will the electricity supply have to be turned off, as we cant have that ! '
Hope you like working weekends testing as i dont.


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## Gavin Adams (Aug 22, 2008)

*Well well guys,
The testing i am doing is mainly for insurence and health and safty records. when i do the tests i make a note on it that it is only for a general guide line for health and safty and that if a more detaild inspection or more in depth test is needed then the company i work for will need to get in a contractor. i have done a few tests now but still some things i am not all to sure about. did a test on a circuit that has a rcbo and did a rcd test. the results were for half times...310 mA then one times 137mA and then five times..47mA. Im sure you all can see my problem here. also one more thing. testing for the zs and ze. what i am doing at the moment is going to the distant part of the circuit and testing for zs. then record the result. how do you test for the ze. acording to the on site guite. ze for a pme system is 0.36 ohms. do i just put this figer on the cert or is there a way for me to messure it on my fluke tester. hope to here form you guys soon. and once again thanks for all your comments.
*


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

Sorry but regarding further assistance on this topic, these questions are descending to a level I am uncomfortable with. Please do not take this the wrong way but; *'let me tell you where I am; I am out'*

*Frank, cornish, Chris, Eco etcetera.....?*


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

I have to agree with Trimix.


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm with trimix

It sounds a big can of worms to me :whistling2:


Gav , i recommend you get your company to get in a " registered contractor " to do the inspection and tests for you , then you put your PPM's into place and go from there.

I've done a lot of tests for firms like this and then the maintenance guys take over , most insurance companies INSIST on it being a contractor external to the company , Health and safety exec also are starting to spec contractors for this work.

Like trimix says " Its your name on the cert " YOUR ASS ON THE LINE !!!

Are you totally confident you could defend yourself in a court of law 

Chris


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## Trimix-leccy (Dec 4, 2007)

these are the bits that are frightening me...

the rcbo/rcd testing....half times and mA readings...or am I missing something? AND the inability to test Ze and wanting to 'quote from the OSG ' for a *TEST RESULT* !!


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## Gavin Adams (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks for your understanding chris sounds like you are a good guy. 
first i have the 2391 but this is the first time i have had to use my skills. little rusty but getting there. the company does use an external contractor to do the overall test and instpecting. what i am doing is really going over there foot steps conferming what the faults are. the reason being is that the company that tested the instalation on put fault stickers where the faults are but not saying way the faults are. that is why i have to do some testing on my own. to find out what the issue is. being in the maint department at work. the test i do i keep on record for anyone that needs to look up any information on what work and corrective messures i have taken can see some form of progress. does this make any sense guys. not going to put myself at the hands of the law. a test without a signature is not uphold in the caurt of law so im sure i am safe...lol


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## Gavin Adams (Aug 22, 2008)

trimi, all test i have done i have done acording to the regs. i know how to work out the ze by calculation. as your zs= ze + (r1 +r2)/1000 with a correction factor of 1.2
what i mean is i am using a fluke meter and it calculats the zs so can i can get that reading. i get more or less the same reading as the contractors did. but the fluke meter does not record or give you an option to take the ze.

dont want you guys to warry. i am not going to do something without finding out how or making sure that i comply with the regs. was just after your experience on the subject as i am a newbe


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## chrisb271 (Jul 6, 2007)

So basically gav your checking out the remedials that the company who tested have come up with ( the faults for want of a better word ).

I remember you saying before that you had the 2391 and see where you are coming from now , when you actually get out in the real world to test for the first time it gets quite daunting especially on a large installation.

theres two ways of Getting the measurement for ze by enquiry at the electricity board local to the factory ( maybe eon now ! ) or by test
I take it that your fluke is a multi function tester then gav ?

All you are doing is taking an earth loop test before your circuit begins , the figures they state in the onsite guide are as a guide only , the maximum value you would expect to find , so depending on how far away from the supply transformer you are gives a different reading ,if its next to your factory then its going to be low , as low as 0.01 or 0.02 ohms , any lower than that any your going to have to use another loop tester as it wouldn't be safe to use the one you have due to high fault currents.

who's that snoring in the background ???? :whistling2:


Chris


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## Gavin Adams (Aug 22, 2008)

Thanks for your understanding chris, yes i understand that the distance from the supply transformer matters. infact we have one on the site at work that suppy the time it is in. so the reading i have been getting is 0.14 ohm.s this is the reading i took at the board. so am i right that this is the ze reading. you are right about the testing being daunting. there are so many ways in every board and im just trying to make sure that i do everything right. one things you can be sure of is that if i dont know how to do something. i will not do it till i have found out how to and safely and accourding to the regs too. so your advice and experience is greatly recieved.
Thank you.


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## sparkie (Apr 2, 2008)

Sounds like the factory we are working in, it's got recent test labels on DB's-one has to question the quality of the periodic testing when there are numerous unidentified circuits and issues turning off items.
Further to this there are circuits that blatantly not to bs7671 and only would achieve disconnection due to parrallel paths to earth.
When we finish the new installations(special projects) the fun will begin with periodic inspection


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## Gavin Adams (Aug 22, 2008)

Hello sparkie,
well its more or less like what you say. just a mission to get everything to a base line and then start doing the periodic stuff from then on. found circuits (three phass) breakers supplying more than one circut. also breakers rated to high and all that stuff. hard work and never ending work..lol


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## septiclecky (Oct 17, 2008)

Gavin

When it comes down to the fact of how much of the installation do I test can also be how long is it since it was last tested?

I was working for a company who had the job of testing a large aircraft factory near Chester and when I asked what was required, I got told everything was to be tested and drawings to be marked up as they had no records for the site at all.


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