# Wisconsin anti union bill and Restraining Orders



## brother (Nov 25, 2008)

Ive been watching this wisconsin union bill situation. and they have got a MESS on their hands!! What do you think of this situation? The Senator is saying openly that they are not going to honor the court order, at least thats how I interpet it. 



http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/...e-orders-no-further-implementation-budget-law#


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/judge-blocks-wisconsin-anti-union-law-again.php


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

I heard the judge is over reaching her powers. That the state LAW MAKERS passed the law and the judge is only allowed to enforce what the LAW MAKERS pass.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> I heard the judge is over reaching her powers. That the state LAW MAKERS passed the law and the judge is only allowed to enforce what the LAW MAKERS pass.


That is true.. :thumbsup:

Only guy who doesn't believe in that logic is AG Eric Holder.. he likes to pick and choose what laws he wants to enforce.. :no:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

What a headache.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

The judges restraining order specifically said the Secretary of State could not publish the bill to make it a law (A requirement in Wisconsin).The Secretary did not publish the bill, another state agency did. Now the judge comes back and basically says "Well what I MEANT was NOBODY could publish it." The court is trying to legislate, and THAT is wrong. Agree with the bill or not this law was passed legally, a judge should not be able to rewrite the law.


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

The court is trying to legislate, and THAT is wrong. Agree with the bill or not this law was passed legally, a judge should not be able to rewrite the law. 
e
That is the crux of the matter. Judge needs to get over how she feels, and do what it is that she is supposed to do FOLLOW, AND ENFORCE THE LAW! She has no say in making the law. 

Explains why it is important to vote!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Here is the good news...more money in employees checks..

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/pub...emoving-union-dues-from-employees-checks.html


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Mulder said:


> The judges restraining order specifically said the Secretary of State could not publish the bill to make it a law (A requirement in Wisconsin).The Secretary did not publish the bill, another state agency did. Now the judge comes back and basically says "Well what I MEANT was NOBODY could publish it." The court is trying to legislate, and THAT is wrong. Agree with the bill or not this law was passed legally, a judge should not be able to rewrite the law.


How was it passed legally?


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Someone brought a legal challenge against a piece of legislation.

A judge issued a restraining order on the enforcement of that piece of legislation until it can be determined that it was enacted legally.

One of the essential functions of the judiciary is to see to it that laws have solid legal standing.

This is not "legislating" or "rewriting the law." It's entirely within the boundaries of the judiciary and does absolutely nothing to change law itself at this point.

Once the law actually gets reviewed, for all we know the judge could rule it completely legal and it will go on the books as is.

Legislators can literally put whatever they want on paper. They have a duty to try and make it lawful, but that doesn't mean that it always is. That's why we have judicial review.

-John


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Big John said:


> Someone brought a legal challenge against a piece of legislation.
> 
> A judge issued a restraining order on the enforcement of that piece of legislation until it can be determined that it was enacted legally.
> 
> ...



Damn it John ......... you did it again ..... you brought facts into an perfectly fine bitch and moan session.:laughing::laughing:


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## JacksonburgFarmer (Jul 5, 2008)

Alright.....here is my perspective on the situation......

You want to have a public employee's union???? Fine. Let the tax payers (your TRUE BOSS) vote on it.

look around.......public unions are not helping us. Costs more to do less with more than you could do more with less......:blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> How was it passed legally?


The people voted for it in november 2010..


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> The people voted for it in november 2010..


A handful of republicans voted for the bill it's seems the people want to recall it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> A handful of republicans voted for the bill it's seems the people want to recall it.


No the unions want to recall it because the unions lost the right to take money out of their members pay checks.


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## Brother Noah1 (Mar 23, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> No the unions want to recall it because the unions lost the right to take money out of their members pay checks.


Having gone through this before, I will repeat that this bill is 144 pages of garbage with only a few paragraphs that eliminate the unions(yes I dislike that) but this Governor is using the unions to slight of hand the general public with this bill HE can select one person to change any state law without any vote or restrictions even if it contradicts the federal law(WTF) also part of this bill you can be FIRED by your employer for your sexual orientation with no recourse, The state can sell their power houses(without any bid) to whom ever they wish(for one dollar if they like) because of this bill. I personally do not care for the union part but it is only a minor part of this bill that has been getting all the press, WHY??? This bill is an assault on the WORKING middle class. AS far as the unions taking money from us, this is something that I do on my own accord, what $350 a year and 2% of my gross and I will make how much more than my nonunion counterpart plus H&W retirement. Really a couple of thousand a year we pay to the unions it is well worth the benefits we gain.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Having gone through this before, I will repeat that this bill is 144 pages of garbage


One mans garbage is another man's gold.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

Brother Noah said:


> Really a couple of thousand a year we pay to the unions it is well worth the benefits we gain.


Do you consider it a conflict of interest that you vote and contribute money (through the union) to candidates that vote on your compensation package? 

I do, but..... I also see conflict in big business buying favors through lobbyist.

The system had become corrupt.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Big John said:


> Someone brought a legal challenge against a piece of legislation.
> 
> A judge issued a restraining order on the enforcement of that piece of legislation until it can be determined that it was enacted legally.
> 
> ...


Knock it off. Facts have no place on E.T. 



BBQ said:


> Damn it John ......... you did it again ..... you brought facts into an perfectly fine bitch and moan session.:laughing::laughing:



Hypocrisy rains supreme here on E.T.

If this was the other way around the Harry's and B4T's of the world would be singing the praise of the judge as a patriotic American.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Brother Noah said:


> Having gone through this before, I will repeat that this bill is 144 pages of garbage with only a few paragraphs that eliminate the unions(yes I dislike that) but this Governor is using the unions to slight of hand the general public with this bill HE can select one person to change any state law without any vote or restrictions even if it contradicts the federal law(WTF) also part of this bill you can be FIRED by your employer for your sexual orientation with no recourse, The state can sell their power houses(without any bid) to whom ever they wish(for one dollar if they like) because of this bill. I personally do not care for the union part but it is only a minor part of this bill that has been getting all the press, WHY??? This bill is an assault on the WORKING middle class. AS far as the unions taking money from us, this is something that I do on my own accord, what $350 a year and 2% of my gross and I will make how much more than my nonunion counterpart plus H&W retirement. Really a couple of thousand a year we pay to the unions it is well worth the benefits we gain.





> This bill is an assault on the WORKING middle class


The teachers are not "WORKING MIDDLE CLASS" they are payed twice as much as the real middle class that have to pay their salerys..

The do not have the right to force the real middle class to pay them the big bucks just because they think they the right to use the government to force the real middle class wether they like it or not..

The teachers have the right to quit their jobs if they don't like working there..

Considering that 25% of the work force is Unemployed right now i am sure the state of Wisconsin will find some people that can do a better job teaching.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Knock it off. Facts have no place on E.T.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That judge is part of the problem..


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> If this was the other way around the Harry's and B4T's of the world would be singing the praise of the judge as a patriotic American.


Sorry Vic.. but you got your facts screwed up.. :no:

A judge has no business making laws or deciding which ones he/she wants on the books..


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## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> The people voted for it in november 2010..


Ding, ding, ding!!! we have a winner in how it came to be. 

It's a Tenth Amendment action, per the U.S. Constitution. It's a state's right to affect that which affects them. 

Doesn't matter how we feel about it, unless we are citizens of Wisconsin. Good, bad, indifferent, it is their state, and they will decide the outcome.

When it comes to outcome in a person's state, I'm with Sam Adams -

If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands that which feed you. May your chain be set lightly upon you and posterity forget ye were our countrymen." 


I went and had lunch with the governor today - :thumbup:
http://www.akrdc.org/membership/events/special/

Alaska Crude 
West Coast Delivery $117.35 $-0.05 March 25, 2011 


Natural Gas
Henry Hub $4.13 $-0.14 March 25, 2011 


*Oil Production **638,666 bpd* (where Alaska's money comes from - about 85% of it) 6,504 March 24, 2011


It was a great lunch! (me, and about a 1,000 others) :thumbsup:

No oil
No jobs
No future
No way!
Yes on HB 110!


Hopefully Juneau get's it right tomorrow!:whistling2:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

B4T said:


> Sorry Vic.. but you got your facts screwed up.. :no:
> 
> A judge has no business making laws or deciding which ones he/she wants on the books..


So your ignoring John's post.

No matter how you look at it, it seems to be a lot of underhanded maneuvers on both sides here.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> The teachers are not "WORKING MIDDLE CLASS" they are payed twice as much as the real middle class that have to pay their salerys..
> 
> The do not have the right to force the real middle class to pay them the big bucks just because they think they the right to use the government to force the real middle class wether they like it or not..
> 
> ...


I don't know how many rich teachers you know, Harry. My 6th grade teacher lived down the street from me and he painted houses during the summer for income.

Personally, I'd like teachers to be well paid. They have an important job. Drop teacher salaries and the only people interested in teaching will be the people that are moving up from burger-flipping.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

I like the whole "lets pay them according to performance" thing that everyone is screaming about now. 

And people think kids get pushed through now, wait till' you see the idiots getting straight A's........:laughing: 


Mean while Wall Street is cracking up laughing at all this.

We need to pay bonuses to keep the talent. Now the same people that were behind that want the teachers to work for less. So much for keeping the talent around.

Hypocrites.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

erics37 said:


> I don't know how many rich teachers you know, Harry. My 6th grade teacher lived down the street from me and he painted houses during the summer for income.
> 
> Personally, I'd like teachers to be well paid. They have an important job. Drop teacher salaries and the only people interested in teaching will be the people that are moving up from burger-flipping.


Thats fine with me we can pay them well without Unions..

If they are being payed twice as much as the real middle class,,

Then they are not middle class they are upper class...


A school teacher is not worth one penny more then the graduates they produce


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Thats fine with me we can pay them well without Unions..
> 
> If they are being payed twice as much as the real middle class,,
> 
> ...


Your kidding right?

So now the teacher is solely responsible for every kids outcome in life.

OK fine, the George Bush jr's teacher is owed big time. Talk about over achievers. :whistling2:


Whatever happen to one's own personal responsibility in life.
Aren't you usually the cheer leader for the cause??

So Harry, if your kid grows up to be a loser, it's the teachers fault? Which teacher, first grade, tenth grade, college professor?


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> If they are being payed twice as much as the real middle class,,
> 
> Then they are not middle class they are upper class...


Has it occured to you that, just maybe, if teachers are getting paid twice as much as the real middle class..

*Then the real middle class is getting royally s**t on in this country?*


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

erics37 said:


> *Then the real middle class is getting royally s**t on in this country?*


Of course not. Everyone is just a bunch of lazy bastards doing nothing but posting on internet forums all day and night. :whistling2:

Did you here about the class action law suite against Wall Mart?
If the courts allow it, it will be the biggest discrimination suite in our history.

These are the jobs that are available to the so-called middle class.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Of course not. Everyone is just a bunch of lazy bastards doing nothing but posting on internet forums all day and night. :whistling2:
> 
> Did you here about the class action law suite against Wall Mart?
> If the courts allow it, it will be the biggest discrimination suite in our history.
> ...


I heard a bit about it, yeah. I doubt it will carry through, though... Wal-Mart has too much clout and too much history of f**king people.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

erics37 said:


> I heard a bit about it, yeah. I doubt it will carry through, though... Wal-Mart has too much clout and too much history of* f**king people.*



The American way.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Has it occured to you that, just maybe, if teachers are getting paid twice as much as the real middle class..
> 
> *Then the real middle class is getting royally s**t on in this country?*


 
It means the teachers are not getting the job done because of union interference.

*The real middle class is getting royally s**t on in this country because of the high cost of government by confication of the middle class spendable income.*

*Gas $4.00 per gallon that is intentional and is being done to burn the middle class.*

erics37 be happy you have a job 25% of your neighbors do not


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> *HARRY304E*;417308]It means the teachers are not getting the job done because of union interference.


Your opinion is not fact. There busting the union so they can lower the teachers salaries. It's that simple. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.



> The real middle class is getting royally s**t on in this country because of the high cost of government by confication of the middle class spendable income


*.
*

What's


> confication


 mean???


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> It means the teachers are not getting the job done because of union interference.


That has to be one of the stupidest things ever typed on this forum.

Did you eat a lot of paint chips growing up?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> *BBQ*;417311]That has to be one of the stupidest things ever typed on this forum.


 Now that's a hell of an achievement. 



> Did you eat a lot of paint chips growing up?


I thought we already determined this before.

Harry is like the Tea Bagger version of Noah.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> That has to be one of the stupidest things ever typed on this forum.
> 
> Did you eat a lot of paint chips growing up?


Thank you...:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> That has to be one of the stupidest things ever typed on this forum.
> 
> Did you eat a lot of paint chips growing up?


Why don't you tell us why the teachers are not getting the job done in the public schools,,

And i am not bashing teachers them selves..

There unions ,,the MTA and the department of Education is the problem.

That is what i call union interference.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> It means the teachers are not getting the job done because of union interference.


Every teacher I had, and the few teachers I've dealt with thus far for my kid, have given their all and dedicate themselves to their work. The teachers, by and large, are holding up their end of the deal. Crappy parents are predominantly the cause of "the job not getting done." Unions don't have anything to do with it; you're over simplifying.



> *The real middle class is getting royally s**t on in this country because of the high cost of government by confication of the middle class spendable income.*


Harry we all agree that the government wastes a lot of money and needs to be hacked up a bit. But you're leaving out all the evil corporate executives in board rooms figuring out how to outsource jobs to the third world and how they can wring more pennies out of their employees at home. That's the real kicker.



> *Gas $4.00 per gallon that is intentional and is being done to burn the middle class.*
> 
> erics37 be happy you have a job 25% of your neighbors do not


I am happy to have a job. Most decent people are. In fact, most decent people are so happy to have a job that they strive to excel at it. Especially people like teachers. So that being the case, I'd be pretty f**king pissed if people started telling me that I don't deserve to be paid reasonably for the hard work I do *for them* on a regular basis.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Why don't you tell us why the teachers are not getting the job done in the public schools,


Well first off in many schools, the majority of schools, the the teachers are 'getting it done'. We only hear about the schools that aren't on the news because 'good news' does not sell.




> There unions ,,the MTA and the department of Education is the problem.
> 
> That is what i call union interference.



What are you calling union interference?

Tell me what is the union doing that is interfering with the teaching of the kids? 

You know what ........ don't bother ......... I would be better off listening to the ramblings of a homeless crackhead.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

erics37 said:


> Every teacher I had, and the few teachers I've dealt with thus far for my kid, have given their all and dedicate themselves to their work. The teachers, by and large, are holding up their end of the deal. Crappy parents are predominantly the cause of "the job not getting done." Unions don't have anything to do with it; you're over simplifying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good you are way to ineligent to under a very simple subject.



> But you're leaving out all the evil corporate executives in board rooms figuring out how to outsource jobs to the third world and how they can wring more pennies out of their employees at home. That's the real kicker


That is a private sector issue and will be delt with shortly.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

BBQ said:


> You know what ........ don't bother ......... I would be better off listening to the ramblings of a homeless crackhead.


This guy has some important things to say actually:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Well first off in many schools, the majority of schools, the the teachers are 'getting it done'. We only hear about the schools that aren't on the news because 'good news' does not sell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Well first off in many schools, the majority of schools, the the teachers are 'getting it done'. We only hear about the schools that aren't on the news because 'good news' does not sell


Thats right Good news does not"""Clue #1:blink:
Watch 4 , 5, or 7, you have a video of grass growing you will learn more watching that..

The schools are not getting done that is why kids have to waste tens of thousands going to collage studing liberal arts..:laughing:
Thats a good invesment 4 more years of high school and the joy of Farting on spring break.

Yes i could put up a list reasons to go to collage Doctor lawyer dentist ect...


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

I have a feeling that the judge's ruling was _anything but_ fair and unbiased :whistling2:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> I have a feeling that the judge's ruling was _anything but_ fair and unbiased :whistling2:


Yea the Governor has the right idea..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Thats right Good news does not"""Clue #1:blink:
> Watch 4 , 5, or 7, you have a video of grass growing you will learn more watching that..
> 
> The schools are not getting done that is why kids have to waste tens of thousands going to collage studing liberal arts..:laughing:
> ...


Well ........ I think the guy in erics video was more coherent then that.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Well ........ I think the guy in erics video was more coherent then that.


 OK.:laughing:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Harry you claimed 



> It means the teachers are not getting the job done because of union interference.



You have yet to say how.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Harry you claimed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We do not have the best teachers in the public schools because of the unions the school systems canot fire teachers for being poor performers..

The school systems are not allowed to look for new teachers exchept from the union..

The teachers are way too involved in politics one sided of cource..

A math teacher should be teaching mathmatics not Algore's Moonbat theory on Global warming.

He should be teaching mathmatics...Ect Ect.....


Does that help??


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Harry you claimed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 We do not have the best teachers in the public schools because of the unions the school systems canot fire teachers for being poor performers..

The school systems are not allowed to look for new teachers exchept from the union..

The teachers are way too involved in politics one sided of cource..

A math teacher should be teaching mathmatics not Algore's Moonbat theory on Global warming.

He should be teaching mathmatics...Ect Ect.....


Does that help??


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Why don't you tell us why the teachers are not getting the job done in the public schools,,





BBQ said:


> Well first off in many schools, the majority of schools, the the teachers are 'getting it done'. We only hear about the schools that aren't on the news because 'good news' does not sell.


Great answer Bob!

Harry, just one more thing to think about. Maybe the declining morality is the biggest contributer? Like Bob pointed out, the majority of schools are 'getting it done'.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> We do not have the best teachers in the public schools because of the unions the school systems canot fire teachers for being poor performers..
> 
> The school systems are not allowed to look for new teachers exchept from the union..
> 
> ...


I ll tell you an interesting fact. We have what is called a "right to work" State. This means that teachers do not have to be hired through or have anything to do with any union. All they have to do is enjoy the benefits of the collective bargaining that a few of the others pay for. This is not a big issue for anyone.
BTW,
Florida is usually in the bottom along with the red states of the south.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> We do not have the best teachers in the public schools because of the unions the school systems canot fire teachers for being poor performers..
> 
> The school systems are not allowed to look for new teachers exchept from the union..
> 
> ...


It might help if there had been any facts in it.:laughing:

But really it is just a collection of sound bites you are repeating.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Teachers are no different than doctors, lawyers and electricians, some good, some bad. In any system where lazy, bad or incompetent workers are protected, the customers suffer.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Thats right Good news does not"""Clue #1:blink:
> Watch 4 , 5, or 7, you have a video of grass growing you will learn more watching that..
> 
> The schools are not getting done that is why kids have to waste tens of thousands going to collage studing liberal arts..:laughing:
> ...


:blink: what the hell?
So liberal art colleges bad? Is there a conservative arts college....a 4 year investment in being involved with one of the many religous cults shunning science while babbling about the invisble man in the sky?

I was able to follow this thread quite well until this part


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Education is what drives the future of this country, unions do are not negatively interfering with classrooms, many of these teachers use collectively bargaining to ensure the student has a much more appropriate learning enviornment
-smaller class room sizes
-funding for better teaching materials(books, study guides ect)
-an up to date modern enviorment, computer labs and similar facilities
Many public schools who are non union are unable to negotiate for these crucial things to ensure a good productive learning enviornment.

These teachers unions are not all about pay pay pay. Its important to remember that todays unions public and private are fighting tooth and nail to ensure a better quality of life whether some of you refuse to accept it or are simply to lazy and naive to acknowledge it.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Rust said:


> Education is what drives the future of this country, unions do are not negatively interfering with classrooms, many of these teachers use collectively bargaining to ensure the student has a much more appropriate learning enviornment
> -smaller class room sizes
> -funding for better teaching materials(books, study guides ect)
> -an up to date modern enviorment, computer labs and similar facilities


Smaller class sizes is a crock. If it was up to the Unions, every student would have their own individual teacher. The more teachers, the more the unions make. The more teachers, the more taxes skyrocket. After all, it's all about tax dollars to them. The never ending stream of cash, on the backs of the middle class.

Funding for better teaching materials?

Who you kidding? Kids here go to 4 story Taj-Mahals with tile floors, olympic size swimming pools, ball fields, air conditioned and hepa filtered work and learing enviroments. The have computers, drop down digital screens, internet capable work desks now. How much more do you need? Heck, now they can tele-conference from school to school. Cut me a break.....

An up to date modern enviorment, computer labs and similar facilities?

Covered above. Teachers Unions are greed monsters. 




Rust said:


> Its important to remember that todays unions public and private are fighting tooth and nail to ensure a better quality of life whether some of you refuse to accept it or are simply to lazy and naive to acknowledge it.


Not only am I lazy and naive, I'm broke from paying taxes. When will it stop?


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Rust said:


> Education is what drives the future of this country, unions do are not negatively interfering with classrooms, many of these teachers use collectively bargaining to ensure the student has a much more appropriate learning enviornment
> -smaller class room sizes
> -funding for better teaching materials(books, study guides ect)
> -an up to date modern enviorment, computer labs and similar facilities
> ...



A union guy calling people lazy....:blink: Are you a member of the local that had to pay non union homeless people to picket for them because "it would of been difficult for the members to find parking spots"????? Now I have heard of everything....:laughing:

http://www.chandlerswatch.com/2011/...ion-workers-to-slog-their-picket-line-shpeel/


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Can't even keep the rats out of union thread.


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## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Sparky3 said:


> Can't even keep the rats out of union thread.



Or the union guys out of all the rest of the threads.....there are so many of you laid off you have more time to post than us working rat contractors...:laughing:


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## Sparky3 (Nov 21, 2010)

jwjrw said:


> Or the union guys out of all the rest of the threads.....there are so many of you laid off you have more time to post than us working rat contractors...:laughing:


Go get that cheese... Laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

jwjrw said:


> Or the union guys out of all the rest of the threads.....there are so many of you laid off you have more time to post than us working rat contractors...:laughing:



Paaaalease...............cut me a friggin' brake. All of the top posters here are the so-called "busy" open shop guy's yet they all seem to be logged in to E.T. 24 hours a day.

You know what I think, outside of few posters, most of the open shop con's are full of sh*t. 

2/3 of the threads are guy's bitching about craigslisters, trunk slammers, low ballers, and cheap customers.

What a bunch of posers.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Paaaalease...............cut me a friggin' brake. All of the top posters here are the so-called "busy" open shop guy's yet they all seem to be logged in to E.T. 24 hours a day.
> 
> You know what I think, outside of few posters, most of the open shop con's are full of sh*t.
> 
> ...


I am one of "those guys" and I don't have any skid marks on my jeans.. :laughing:

I don't bitch or complain about anything electrical except PVC boxes, Scotchkote, grass, and the *going rate*..


----------



## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Dnkldorf said:


> Smaller class sizes is a crock. If it was up to the Unions, every student would have their own individual teacher. The more teachers, the more the unions make. The more teachers, the more taxes skyrocket. After all, it's all about tax dollars to them. The never ending stream of cash, on the backs of the middle class.
> 
> Funding for better teaching materials?
> 
> ...


Im not going to address the taxes that are lower than ever before in history currently other than your full of S***

You spend more a year in taxes for your politicians to drive a cadillac around than you do for the education system. In classrooms where there are 30+ kids can you honestly form a decent arguement saying that getting more teachers is just a union way to get more tax dollars BS. These teachers have a rough job and deserve every penny they get, with so many kids in a classroom it hinders a students ability to learn. Also I think we could agree that EVERY teacher union and non would have a system where there is 1 teacher for every student. You dont become a teacher for the money.


----------



## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

jwjrw said:


> Or the union guys out of all the rest of the threads.....there are so many of you laid off you have more time to post than us working rat contractors...:laughing:


Yeah with all us union people laid off no work at all seems to be getting done electrical wise, because I see quite a few of you so called merit shop people piled on here day in and day out. Interesting :whistling2:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Paaaalease...............cut me a friggin' brake. All of the top posters here are the so-called "busy" open shop guy's yet they all seem to be logged in to E.T. 24 hours a day.
> 
> You know what I think, outside of few posters, most of the open shop con's are full of sh*t.
> 
> ...


Have you ever read a thread where I complained about truck slammers? We target higher income customers. Take a visit to my FB page or my web site and view some of our recent and on going projects. We are scheduling for the first week in may now. Aren't you laid off? Wait no sorry you are hurt. Vic I have no problems with unions. I just like messing with youse guys. :thumbsup:


----------



## jwjrw (Jan 14, 2010)

Rust said:


> Yeah with all us union people laid off no work at all seems to be getting done electrical wise, because I see quite a few of you so called merit shop people piled on here day in and day out. Interesting :whistling2:



Mobile internet and smart phones. When you are the boss you can post whenever and where ever you want to.....


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

> *Dnkldorf*;417596]Smaller class sizes is a crock. If it was up to the Unions, every student would have their own individual teacher. The more teachers, the more the unions make. The more teachers, the more taxes skyrocket. After all, it's all about tax dollars to them. The never ending stream of cash, on the backs of the middle class.


This so-called middle class have no one but themselves to blame. (More on this in a minute)




> Who you kidding? Kids here go to 4 story Taj-Mahals with tile floors, olympic size swimming pools, ball fields, air conditioned and hepa filtered work and learing enviroments. The have computers, drop down digital screens, internet capable work desks now. How much more do you need? Heck, now they can tele-conference from school to school. Cut me a break.....
> 
> An up to date modern enviorment, computer labs and similar facilities?


Yeah, this is the teachers fault how?? All those suburbanites who fled the city over the past 20 years have no one but themselves to blame. They moved into homes they couldn't afford into townships that were outside there means and into schools that they can't afford.......all so there brat kids don't "have to grow up in the city"

And the townships catered to them by building billion dollar schools and hiring the top grads as teachers.




> Not only am I lazy and naive, I'm broke from paying taxes. When will it stop?


I think I remember you saying that you don't have kids. So you have a legitimate beef with paying school taxes but I blame all the posers who ran to the burbs', when they had no business moving there and over extending themselves and hoping to live off of their 15 hours of overtime a week.


Gawd, I hate white suburbanites. A bunch of self centered cry babies who thought that there 45k a year were gonna carry their 1500 a month mortgages and 5000k a year taxes. You guys over extended yourselves and now it has caught up with you's.

Instead of coming to grips with reality and tightening your own budgets yous want everyone else to take the heat. Like the teachers. There the one's who went to college and got educated so they could make 75k a year and have health care and a retirement, just like their over extended parents taught them to.

The best part is, you don't see the people out on the main line complaining about school taxes or the people out in Yardley complaining.

Just the schmucks in lower bucks who never really could afford to move there to begin with.


The best part about this whole debacle is, no one is really blaming the real culprits for the failures of the students, their parents and themselves. These suburban punks are a bunch of spoiled, ignorant, druggy, brats and their parents created them.

When the whole thing crashes and the teachers union gets busted and the working teachers get railroaded guess what,
it's still gonna be the same lazy, stupid, rotten kids in the class rooms. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

slickvic277 said:


> Of course not. Everyone is just a bunch of lazy bastards doing nothing but posting on internet forums all day and night. :whistling2:
> 
> Did you here about the class action law suite against Wall Mart?
> If the courts allow it, it will be the biggest discrimination suite in our history.
> ...


All wall Mart has to do is cut the pay of their men down to what they pay woman that will be the end result of the law suit..

And they will lose a few Billion and raise their prices and make their customers pay for it.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Rust said:


> Yeah with all us union people laid off no work at all seems to be getting done electrical wise, because I see quite a few of you so called merit shop people piled on here day in and day out. Interesting :whistling2:


 
And you have gathered this from all of your 15 days and 41 posts ?

Guys tend to be indoors and not working over the winter time and have more time to post. I go on with my phone if I am waiting for an inspector or something.

There are just as many guys camped out on here during the day bitching about no work as there are union guys laid off or faking injuries to milk the system complaing about "Rats".


I think you are equally pathetic.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> And you have gathered this from all of your 15 days and 41 posts ?
> 
> Guys tend to be indoors and not working over the winter time and have more time to post. I go on with my phone if I am waiting for an inspector or something.
> 
> ...


Im laid off not that big of a secret bud, but needless to say around here that is not an uncommon thing for the so called merit shops who are closing doors everyday. My point is people just like YOU who spend so much time talking smack on the unions and assuming that we are milking the system when unemployment is at 17% nationwide and non union is 2% higher than union overall have no room to talk or make assumptions that unions and their members are lazy money grubbing slobs. You would be incorrect simple as that, I suppose we can just chalk up your hatefulness to jealousy because your not union, I mean other than that there would be no reason to resort to your personal attack by calling me equally pathetic when you yourself have stooped to namecalling.

Oh and obviously since just because I dont have 2500+ posts I couldnt have possibly noticed all the good hardworking independent merit boys on here all hours of the days bashing the organizations that make sure they have a decent life....but hey I dont have 2500 posts and have only been registered for 15 days, not like I would have ever glanced over this site long before becoming a member....nah thats not possible is it.


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## doubleoh7 (Dec 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> Teachers are no different than doctors, lawyers and electricians, some good, some bad. In any system where lazy, bad or incompetent workers are protected, the customers suffer.


 
No, actually yhe kids benefit from bad teachers. I tend to have a unique view of the world, I realize that. When kids havea few teachers in their school years who are dumb, lazy, a-holes, and/or boring, it helps to prepare them for the real world. THey will have to deal with people, jobs, situations in their adulthood that are going to be soul crushing. They need bad experiences in their school years to make them understand that life ain't all peaches and cake.:thumbsup:


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

doubleoh7 said:


> No, actually yhe kids benefit from bad teachers. I tend to have a unique view of the world, I realize that. When kids havea few teachers in their school years who are dumb, lazy, a-holes, and/or boring, it helps to prepare them for the real world. THey will have to deal with people, jobs, situations in their adulthood that are going to be soul crushing. They need bad experiences in their school years to make them understand that life ain't all peaches and cake.:thumbsup:



Yup. My education in the Philadelphia public school system was priceless. I'm lucky that spell check exists. 

I definitely had more then a couple of teachers that should have been fired. But that wasn't really the problem. The problem was the kids. Class rooms with 40+ kids in them, over crowded hall ways, coupled with inner city life is always a recipe for failure.

I remember getting robbed at gun point in the basement restroom in 10th grade. I also enjoy reliving my experience as the only white kid in my Spanish class. The brothers were extremely friendly. :blink:

But it wasn't all bad. It hardened me up for real life. THAT was the education I got.


----------



## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

Rust said:


> Im laid off not that big of a secret bud, but needless to say around here that is not an uncommon thing for the so called merit shops who are closing doors everyday. My point is people just like YOU who spend so much time talking smack on the unions and assuming that we are milking the system when unemployment is at 17% nationwide and non union is 2% higher than union overall have no room to talk or make assumptions that unions and their members are lazy money grubbing slobs. You would be incorrect simple as that, I suppose we can just chalk up your hatefulness to jealousy because your not union, I mean other than that there would be no reason to resort to your personal attack by calling me equally pathetic when you yourself have stooped to namecalling.
> 
> Oh and obviously since just because I dont have 2500+ posts I couldnt have possibly noticed all the good hardworking independent merit boys on here all hours of the days bashing the organizations that make sure they have a decent life....but hey I dont have 2500 posts and have only been registered for 15 days, not like I would have ever glanced over this site long before becoming a member....nah thats not possible is it.


What do they give you an extra 10 bucks to troll websites and spout union BS when you sign the book these days?

My comment was nothing but a response to someone else's union BS post.

You guys are quick to toss out the word "rat" but god forbid anyone say anything about the union. 

This site is called "Electrician Talk-Professional Electrical Contractors Forum"- The use of the word rat is not professional at all and no professional contractor would ever call another contractor a rat

The last bunch of posts don't even have anything to do with the topic. It will get shut down just like all the others. If you look back thru the posts on all these threads ,it is always the same few starting fights in these union type posts.

Yes that is pathetic.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

robnj772 said:


> it is always the same _few_ starting fights in these union type posts.



And you're one of those _*few*_.............


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

robnj772 said:


> What do they give you an extra 10 bucks to troll websites and spout union BS when you sign the book these days?
> 
> Yes that is pathetic.


His name is RUST for a reason, his old ways have him sitting rusting away.:yes:


----------



## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

robnj772 said:


> What do they give you an extra 10 bucks to troll websites and spout union BS when you sign the book these days?
> 
> My comment was nothing but a response to someone else's union BS post.
> 
> ...


Show one post where i have used the term rat? you cant simple as that. Its barbaric namecalling and assumptions like rat and calling union members who are laid off lazy or pathetic that holds society back.

Every response you have given me has shown just how unproffesional you truely are you have contributed nothing to the thread itself mr troll detective...hey that name fits you well doesnt it.


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

brian john said:


> Teachers are no different than doctors, lawyers and electricians, some good, some bad. In any system where lazy, bad or incompetent workers are protected, the customers suffer.


 do you know what you call a doctor who graduates last in his class?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> do you know what you call a doctor who graduates last in his class?


 
A proctologist.

Wisconsin must know something, NJ, Ohio, Maryland all trying to reign in the unions.

The sad fact is if something is not done about the false promises made to unions by public officials, the states will go bankrupt and pay nothing to their retired employees.


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## neil_k (Apr 2, 2011)

First post and its political.  Hi I'm Neil and I have been an electrician for 15 years. Attained my state certification through a non-union shop. While I was in my apprenticeship my pay was protected by the state. Those levels were based off of what the union was paying. It was my hourly rate only. So guess what I had for heath insurance and retirement. Yep Nothing. I completed my apprenticeship and looked at my check and guess what happened? Nothing, my boss continued to pay me as a 5th year apprentice. That's when I left and joined local 159 in Madison WI. Now I have insurance a pension and I make what a Journeyman should. 

As far a our Governor goes he gave massive tax breaks to big operations and created a budget shortfall and now he is balancing on the backs of working people like you and I. Will my property taxes go down? no. will sales tax go down? no. 

Conservative is a word that Republicans use to fool the people that think teachers make too much. Republicans are not conservative. If they keep everyone stupid the top 1% can keep 40% of the total wealth. scott walker is a pawn bought and paid for by the koch brothers. 

People like scott walker are wrong and if we keep electing people like him we will all be working 100 hour weeks with no insurance and no money union or not. 

Unions are a balance between the worker and the employer. When they work together everyone wins.


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

neil_k said:


> First post and its political.  Hi I'm Neil and I have been an electrician for 15 years. Attained my state certification through a non-union shop. While I was in my apprenticeship my pay was protected by the state. Those levels were based off of what the union was paying. It was my hourly rate only. So guess what I had for heath insurance and retirement. Yep Nothing. I completed my apprenticeship and looked at my check and guess what happened? Nothing, my boss continued to pay me as a 5th year apprentice. That's when I left and joined local 159 in Madison WI. Now I have insurance a pension and I make what a Journeyman should.
> 
> As far a our Governor goes he gave massive tax breaks to big operations and created a budget shortfall and now he is balancing on the backs of working people like you and I. Will my property taxes go down? no. will sales tax go down? no.
> 
> ...



Exactly when did the governor pass these tax breaks for the rich that you talk about? Budget shortfall? He has been governor for 3 months, he did not create the shortfall.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

neil_k said:


> First post and its political.  Hi I'm Neil and I have been an electrician for 15 years. Attained my state certification through a non-union shop. While I was in my apprenticeship my pay was protected by the state. Those levels were based off of what the union was paying. It was my hourly rate only. So guess what I had for heath insurance and retirement. Yep Nothing. I completed my apprenticeship and looked at my check and guess what happened? Nothing, my boss continued to pay me as a 5th year apprentice. That's when I left and joined local 159 in Madison WI. Now I have insurance a pension and I make what a Journeyman should.
> 
> As far a our Governor goes he gave massive tax breaks to big operations and created a budget shortfall and now he is balancing on the backs of working people like you and I. Will my property taxes go down? no. will sales tax go down? no.
> 
> ...


So your point is you have the right to force the tax payers to pay you twice as much as you are worth.
you just got your journeyman License so you think you are worth more than the day before:blink:you are not.
And when the tax payers say they have had enough and can not pay anymore.

So you have the right to disrupt their state like a bunch of spoiled crybabys.


> Unions are a balance between the worker and the employer


No they are not they take money out of your pockett to pay themselves the big bucks.



> working people


"working people"
Those of us that go to work every day are sick and tired of being called

"working people "
As if we are week frail and defensless that live on our knees at the mercy if our Employers..

All of us in the real world want to go to work and be left alone by big goverment and big Unions..

Welcome to the forum..:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

neil_k said:


> we will all be working 100 hour weeks with no insurance and no money union or not..


And the overtime rate will become what the hourly rate was.... because it's all about driving the men through the job until it gets done.

I was on a remodel job Source refrigeration was on. They had two apprentices doing the whole job. The kids worked thirty hourse straight, then went and crashed in the truck for a nap. Then they came back out and worked some more. Brazing lines and burning crap up, that's what they did. Source can't find men who want to do refrigeration work for peanuts, so they take the men who make peanuts and work them to death. That's what's in the cards for us... Source doesn't pay benefits or retirement, get real.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Who yanked Harry's string? Does he have a pulley setup so he can pull it himself now?


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## neil_k (Apr 2, 2011)

Walker paid off many cooperation's though tax breaks. Look at who gave to his campaign and the huge money that was put up. Google is a powerful tool find out for yourself.

Do some research on walkers past exploits in Milwaukee and see all the money he "saved" there. I'm not going to start a bickering match with you here.


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## neil_k (Apr 2, 2011)

Harry do you work for a contractor or are you one?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

neil_k said:


> Walker paid off many cooperation's though tax breaks. Look at who gave to his campaign and the huge money that was put up. Google is a powerful tool find out for yourself.
> 
> Do some research on walkers past exploits in Milwaukee and see all the money he "saved" there. I'm not going to start a bickering match with you here.


Just think those tax breaks give the corporation more money to pay you..:laughing:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

You best not try to reason with Harry.

Better to dictate.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

neil_k said:


> Harry do you work for a contractor or are you one?


Harry is indeed a rare bird... 

A cross between crow and spread eagle.


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## neil_k (Apr 2, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Just think those tax breaks give the corporation more money to pay you..:laughing:


Really? I don't think so. But at least we lightened the mood. No pun intended.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

neil_k said:


> Harry do you work for a contractor or are you one?


I am a Electrical contractor in mass i work by my self right now..

I have been in the trade for 37 years and i worked for good Electrical contractors and some bad ones as well,,So i went out on my own and did well right now i am a one man shop and it will stay that way for the time being..

You are a young guy study hard on starting your own business then do it..

Don't waste you life working for the man,, you go out and be the man...That is where the money is..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

neil_k said:


> Really? I don't think so. But at least we lightened the mood. No pun intended.


It's simple math if you raise taxes on corporations then they will have less money for the pay roll..


----------



## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

neil_k said:


> Walker paid off many cooperation's though tax breaks. Look at who gave to his campaign and the huge money that was put up. Google is a powerful tool find out for yourself.
> 
> Do some research on walkers past exploits in Milwaukee and see all the money he "saved" there. I'm not going to start a bickering match with you here.


Back up your accusations with facts. What laws were passed since he has been governor that gave these corporations tax breaks? The budget repair bill has not passed yet. The states financial problems were apparent long before he was elected.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Who yanked Harry's string? Does he have a pulley setup so he can pull it himself now?





miller_elex said:


> You best not try to reason with Harry.
> 
> Better to dictate.





miller_elex said:


> Harry is indeed a rare bird...
> 
> A cross between crow and spread eagle.


Thank you miller i love you too...:laughing::laughing:


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

neil_k said:


> Harry do you work for a contractor or are you one?


Harry is the resident know it all about everything and anything union, all without ever stepping foot in the hall :jester:


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## Sam Gompers (Mar 18, 2011)

slickvic277 said:


> Yup. My education in the Philadelphia public school system was priceless. I'm lucky that spell check exists.
> 
> I definitely had more then a couple of teachers that should have been fired. But that wasn't really the problem. The problem was the kids. Class rooms with 40+ kids in them, over crowded hall ways, coupled with inner city life is always a recipe for failure.
> 
> ...


Damn slick, it sounds like you went to the School of Hard Knocks.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> It's simple math if you raise taxes on corporations then they will have less money for the pay roll..


Who are you trying to kid with this BS, Corporations as it stands pay next to nothing on labor because they sent all the jobs overseas, so not only are they paying nothing in taxes but now they pay pennys on the dollar for wages and pocket the rest. There should be tarriffs placed on every single item that we import along with a set tax rate of 15-20% for everyone including the corporations, and the rich and take away the loopholes. Watch how fast that nice little defecit would dissappear and jobs return.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rust said:


> Who are you trying to kid with this BS, Corporations as it stands pay next to nothing on labor because they sent all the jobs overseas, so not only are they paying nothing in taxes but now they pay pennys on the dollar for wages and pocket the rest. There should be tarriffs placed on every single item that we import along with a set tax rate of 15-20% for everyone including the corporations, and the rich and take away the loopholes. Watch how fast that nice little defecit would dissappear and jobs return.


 


> There should be tarriffs placed on every single item that we import along with a set tax rate of 15-20% for everyone including the corporations, and the rich and take away the loopholes. Watch how fast that nice little defecit would dissappear and jobs return


.

I agree on that..:thumbup:In fact it should be a 25% tax on imports that will bring the jobs fast.

With the excheption of you I don't hear any one on the dem side talking about that at all..

There is somthing funny about that isn't there.:blink:


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Rust said:


> There should be tarriffs placed on every single item that we import along with a set tax rate of 15-20% for everyone including the corporations, and the rich and take away the loopholes. Watch how fast that nice little defecit would dissappear and jobs return.


Watch how fast the American public would flip out about the sudden increase in the cost of basic goods.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> Watch how fast the American public would flip out about the sudden increase in the cost of basic goods.


Hopefully the american public would be intelligent enough to by only american made then and support our economic growth over china, if that occured a few of these companies would reconsider and move the jobs back home knowing that their consumer base is the U.S.


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

Rust said:


> Hopefully the american public would be intelligent enough to by only american made then and support our economic growth over china, if that occured a few of these companies would reconsider and move the jobs back home knowing that their consumer base is the U.S.


History has shown you wish will be unfulfilled.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

BBQ said:


> Watch how fast the American public would flip out about the sudden increase in the cost of basic goods.


That is already happing anyhow because they are printing money like crazy witch in turn lowers the value of the dollar. 

Less spending power for us.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> .
> 
> I agree on that..:thumbup:In fact it should be a 25% tax on imports that will bring the jobs fast.
> 
> ...


First I would like to point out I am a liberal, I support neither of the corporate owned political parties, but am stuck voting for the lesser evil in the dems.

...but yes in order to fix this economy corporations will need to pay in a way that its cheaper to bring jobs back while at the same time providing funding for the government in a form that is not lobbying politicians
so I will second your 25% tax on EVERY item imported


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rust said:


> Hopefully the american public would be intelligent enough to by only american made then and support our economic growth over china, if that occured a few of these companies would reconsider and move the jobs back home knowing that their consumer base is the U.S.


I agree with that too.:thumbup:


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Finally we are on the same page :thumbsup:


----------



## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

BBQ said:


> History has shown you wish will be unfulfilled.


Unfortunately this is true among the masses that refuse to educate themselves economically and make the claim well it doesnt affect me blah blah blah. Makes me wonder if there is any hope for this country


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Rust said:


> First I would like to point out I am a liberal, I support neither of the corporate owned political parties, but am stuck voting for the lesser evil in the dems.
> 
> ...but yes in order to fix this economy corporations will need to pay in a way that its cheaper to bring jobs back while at the same time providing funding for the government in a form that is not lobbying politicians
> so I will second your 25% tax on EVERY item imported





> lesser evil in the dems


I don't agree with that..:laughing:




> but yes in order to fix this economy corporations will need to pay in a way that its cheaper to bring jobs back while at the same time providing funding for the government in a form that is not lobbying politicians
> so I will second your 25% tax on EVERY item imported


I do agree with that,,:thumbup:

But for some odd reason the dem's are strongly against that,,They say they wan't to fix the Economy and they are doing things that are making much worse:no:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Oh Great Flying Spaghetti Monster, 

Please save us from ourselves !!!


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Rust said:


> Hopefully the american public would be intelligent enough to by only american made then and support our economic growth over china, if that occured a few of these companies would reconsider and move the jobs back home knowing that their consumer base is the U.S.


 You're a lot more idealistic than I am.

Not many folks have principles stronger than their wallet. If they did, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. We want it and we want it cheap.

Folks will protest like crazy against the construction of Walmarts because of what they do to the local economy, but a year after the stores are built, those same protesters will be shopping there to take advantage of the low prices.

We live a disposable lifestyle of massive consumption. The recession we went through has done little or nothing to change that. So, exactly what type of catastrophe would it take to get people to buy less and spend more for it?

-John


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> I don't agree with that..:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How exactly have they made anything worse than the cons in the rep/tea party, so far the problem I have seen with them is not pulling out of Iraq and afghanistan immediately, and extending the failed dubya tax cuts. Both of these things of course were brought in by the facis......I mean republican party


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Big John said:


> Folks will protest like crazy against the construction of Walmarts because of what they do to the local economy, but a year after the stores are built, those same protesters will be shopping there to take advantage of the low prices.


The people who stand against walmart care about this country.

The people who shop there care about their next free check from taxpayers, or that they no longer live in the barrio.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

Big John said:


> You're a lot more idealistic than I am.
> 
> Not many folks have principles stronger than their wallet. If they did, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. We want it and we want it cheap.
> 
> ...


I have been out of work for near a year now and this whole time I have still been buying american, right now that is the most important thing everybody in this country can do. 

...But alas the unemployed hillbilly gun touting bible thumper down the road hanging out his truck window screaming yeee hawww as he still shops at walmart tells me buying american wont help a thing because he is just one man and he wants it cheap.

This man has been laid off about a year longer than me if it werent for his wife they would have lost everything by now. I worry about the lack of intelligence and massive amount of arrogance with people in this country who thinking voting and buying american is a waste of time.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Rust said:


> I have been out of work for near a year now....


That's sh1tty. Sometimes you got to cry uncle.

You're one of the few on the list sitting on your hands, believe it.


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

miller_elex said:


> That's sh1tty. Sometimes you got to cry uncle.
> 
> You're one of the few on the list sitting on your hands, believe it.


Sitting on my hands no, mowing grass and things of that nature, as well as a few good people still working have thrown a little sidework my way when they build a barn or finish a basement. Making friends in the trades has treated me well. Leaving the union now would do nothing for me because the merit shops arent hiring half of them are lucky to have a shop still.


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## erics37 (May 7, 2009)

Rust said:


> Unfortunately this is true among the masses that refuse to educate themselves economically and make the claim well it doesnt affect me blah blah blah. Makes me wonder if there is any hope for this country


The majority of people I see in Wal-Mart (I don't shop there, but they call our shop for most all of their electrical work... they must not realize we're IBEW :laughing are either old poor people or young white trash poor people. Those groups tend to be stubborn and f**king ********, respectively. The good news is a lot of those old people will start dying off. The bad news is those young white trash people multiply a lot.



miller_elex said:


> Oh Great Flying Spaghetti Monster,
> 
> Please save us from ourselves !!!












Yeah Pastafarians!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> The people who stand against walmart care about this country.
> 
> The people who shop there care about their next free check from taxpayers, or that they no longer live in the barrio.


There was a long line of cars turning into the Walmart parking lot today. Somebody shops there.


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## ilikepez (Mar 24, 2011)

I think free trade would work, if the Chinese weren't always ripping us off. For instance there are 200 million pirated copies of windows in use in China. Its almost impossible for a US company to win a patent lawsuit in a Chinese court, and you can count on any design you export to China being ripped off and produced almost immediately by a local company for a quarter of your price. 

Also they don't have any environmental or labor safety laws. Case in point: MSR is a manufacturer of high quality camping gear based in Seattle. They found out that a Chinese company is making millions off of there snowshoe design. The Chinese copied MSR's design down to the logo. The only thing they changed was that they use a toxic plastic that gives workers breathing problems, and that allowed them to cut the price in half.

What we need to do is level the playing field, and not let companies import products that don't meet similar requirements to what it would take to produce in the US.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

New Balance is (SUPPOSEDLY) American made, and cost substantially less that a comparable Nike. Cost difference, Nike spends more on advertising?

When possible buy American, I like the New Balance.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

ilikepez said:


> I think free trade would work, if the Chinese weren't always ripping us off....and not let companies import products that don't meet similar requirements to what it would take to produce in the US.


 So, the problem is China is ripping us off by producing cheap knockoff goods...that American companies keep selling to us?

The problem is American companies are demanding these goods to sell. The reason China is even involved in this picture is because we created a massive demand for cheap deregulated manufacturing. 

What you are seeing *is* pure free trade. This is what you get with unabashed capitalism: When the only thing that counts is how cheaply a good can be produced, and how much of a profit it can make for the company, this is the end result.

The idea that the Chinese are screwing _us_ is absurd. A huge portion of the luxury goods available to middle-class America were produced on the backs of impoverished Chinese living and working in 3rd world conditions.

The direction of this country won't improve until the American consumer smartens up. I really hope that happens soon, but I'm not at all confident that it will.

-John


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

brian john said:


> New Balance is (SUPPOSEDLY) American made, and cost substantially less that a comparable Nike. Cost difference, Nike spends more on advertising?
> 
> When possible buy American, I like the New Balance.


I have American assembled New Balance shoes. Even though they say "American Made" they are made with foreign materials.

If you go on their website you'll see the American Made with American Materials cost double to triple the price of the assembled stock.

Little steps, but steps in the better direction in my opinion.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Big John said:


> So, the problem is China is ripping us off by producing cheap knockoff goods...that American companies keep selling to us?
> 
> 
> -John


 
I heard (no back up) China still recieves AID from America, 90% of the countries in the world recieve some kind of aid from us, even the ones that hate us.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

I could really give two craps about comitting to buying anything made here in the US.

So far, my experience has been, Americans only want to hit homeruns, want your money upfront before they prove they can do any work, and are greedy and lazy as hell.

I am going to look elsewhere for manufacturers of these reflectors I am playing with. Why should I wait for them to get around to answering my emails, and shipping my parts. 

If you don't take care of the customer, someone else will.

I am glad I am not tied into buying from American companies exclusively. I would be bankrupt waiting for them.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

The Union has a contract that was signed in agreement. Don't Back down.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

brian john said:


> I heard (no back up) China still recieves AID from America, 90% of the countries in the world recieve some kind of aid from us, even the ones that hate us.


There is ONE man who would put a stop to that moronic policy in a NY minute if he was sitting in the directors chair.. :thumbsup:

It does't take a MIT grad student to figure out when your $15 Trillion dollars in debt, you stop giving money away..

This policy goes across party lines so don't start pointing fingers.. just send in your Fed tax payment because Pakistan doesn't have indoor plumbing in their houses..

They used the Tidy Bowl money for nukes instead.. now we have to spend more millions to protect them from people trying to kill us next door..


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## Rust (Mar 15, 2011)

bobelectric said:


> The Union has a contract that was signed in agreement. Don't Back down.


?.......:001_huh:


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## Stan B. (Jul 25, 2008)

BBQ said:


> Watch how fast the American public would flip out about the sudden increase in the cost of basic goods.


You're embarassing yourself here.


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## brother (Nov 25, 2008)

Looks like after the THIRD TIME the govenor got the message that the 'law is NOT in effect'. This case has turned out to be one big soap opera! 


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...n-law-not-validly-published-not-in-effect.php


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## brother (Nov 25, 2008)

*Judge choking a Judge??*

This mess in Wisconsin over the union vs anti union bill has got judges accussing judges of choking them!! Ive never heard of such! 
What do you think?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ge-accused-trying-CHOKE-female-colleague.html


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

Mulder said:


> The judges restraining order specifically said the Secretary of State could not publish the bill to make it a law (A requirement in Wisconsin).The Secretary did not publish the bill, another state agency did. Now the judge comes back and basically says "Well what I MEANT was NOBODY could publish it." The court is trying to legislate, and THAT is wrong. Agree with the bill or not this law was passed legally, a judge should not be able to rewrite the law.


I totally agree with you. The Judicial branch does not have the power to make laws. If an entity...county...state...city, does not have the funds to keep going as they are, they have the right to rescind, or change , in any way, the activities of their government so as to bring the spending back in to control. No contract, in my opinion, circumvents the rights of the people of that county, city, etc., to do so.


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## neil_k (Apr 2, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> That is already happing anyhow because they are printing money like crazy witch in turn lowers the value of the dollar.
> 
> Less spending power for us.


Harry I can tell you are smarter than this. I am more than willing to pay more for a better quality product. Made here. Spending power is a BS term made by "Richers" . You know the guy with the Mercedes getting up at 9am going to a bs address sapping off US. I would like a Benz but I get up at 5:10am ride a ride share van to work put my 8 in then ride home. Totaling about 12 hours away from home. Do I want to give more? hell no. I have a family and those ****s sitting on their asses get nothing more.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

neil_k said:


> Harry I can tell you are smarter than this. I am more than willing to pay more for a better quality product. Made here. Spending power is a BS term made by "Richers" . You know the guy with the Mercedes getting up at 9am going to a bs address sapping off US. I would like a Benz but I get up at 5:10am ride a ride share van to work put my 8 in then ride home. Totaling about 12 hours away from home. Do I want to give more? hell no. I have a family and those ****s sitting on their asses get nothing more.


Somebody is buying from Walmart (and all those other discount places) and it is not those driving Mercedes, unless they got all their money by being tight.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

brother said:


> Ive been watching this wisconsin union bill situation. and they have got a MESS on their hands!! What do you think of this situation? The Senator is saying openly that they are not going to honor the court order, at least thats how I interpet it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read only the first sentence of your first web reference. The judge is an idiot and is emboldened by the current administration. The law of the land is the law of the land. It is a problem that we all have to address. Judges only have the right to interpret...not legislate.


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## RIVETER (Sep 26, 2009)

I have said it many times ... I am a union man as far as worker's rights are concerned. I have a problem when a union tries to get far enough into the legislator's pockets that the legislators are not trying to protect ALL of their constituents. The law of supply and demand dictates most of all that occurs in our economy. If there is not enough revenue due to a poor economy raises should not occur. Government jobs do not create wealth. They should not demand raising salaries when their government revenue does not support it.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

neil_k said:


> Harry I can tell you are smarter than this. I am more than willing to pay more for a better quality product. Made here. Spending power is a BS term made by "Richers" . You know the guy with the Mercedes getting up at 9am going to a bs address sapping off US. I would like a Benz but I get up at 5:10am ride a ride share van to work put my 8 in then ride home. Totaling about 12 hours away from home. Do I want to give more? hell no. I have a family and those ****s sitting on their asses get nothing more.


So am i.

In fact we should make everything right here.:thumbsup:

My point was they are printing money to decrease the value of the dollar which makes all goods more costly for us.


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## lefleuron (May 22, 2010)

I just heard rumor that Wis. had sweeping recalls of Republicans. And that a lot of true Republicans tried to become "fake" democrats and run against other Republicans.

I am not sure this is true or not. But the last I knew was people who thought it was a great idea to cut public workers wages/ and rights thought it was a crappy idea because now its happening to them next year!:laughing:

Is it true the Rep. are going down in flames in that state? I really dont follow the political things much, but the workers rights hits close to home.


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## Jmohl (Apr 26, 2011)

Interesting stuff here: http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary.html.... Anyway, in FL. I have never heard of a school work stoppage over not having up to date computers, text books, school facilities, or anything other than more money and benies for the teachers and less students per class. More money, days off, "planning days" etc.... so anyway, teacher salaries in Fl. average $50,180. They work 180 days for that at a daily rate of $278.77 or $34.84 an hour. Funny thing about the class size to teacher ratio deal, independent studies have shown no correlation. Also interesting is the expense per pupil rate, Fl spends 4grand per pupil more than Wi. but Wi. has a supposedly better education system. Hmmmm


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

lefleuron said:


> I just heard rumor that Wis. had sweeping recalls of Republicans. And that a lot of true Republicans tried to become "fake" democrats and run against other Republicans.
> 
> I am not sure this is true or not. But the last I knew was people who thought it was a great idea to cut public workers wages/ and rights thought it was a crappy idea because now its happening to them next year!:laughing:
> 
> Is it true the Rep. are going down in flames in that state? I really dont follow the political things much, but the workers rights hits close to home.


No workers rights were taken.

When they lose they will do the same thing all over again...
http://biggovernment.com/mtrackers/2011/07/20/big-labor-tries-to-buy-wisconsin-recall-elections/


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

The hard facts are someone has to pay the bills, and unfortunatly past politicians from both parties made politically expedient promises to get elected/re-elected and now someone has to pay to promises off. The working in the state or the state employees.

The politicians made promises that could NEVER be met long term in good or bad times. So basically the state unions took money upfront and now have to return it. Had the economy stayed in robust shape this would have taken a bit longer but it was predicted in the “Wall Street Journal" 5-6 years ago. Wisconsin is not the only state in deep doo-doo.


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