# What breakers do you prefer? 3Phase 480v



## acro (May 3, 2011)

Well, I don't get to work with much new stuff very often, but I want to get some breakers to have on hand for break downs.

These are for 480v motor circuits, mostly. 400A and down. Surface mount for everything above 25amps I suppose. 

My supply house can sell AB, SquareD or CH. But, I don't have a good feel for any of them and wanted a little input before I decide.

If certain ones are better for the higher amperages and others are more suited for the lower sizes, that's fine. I don't have to have everything the same. But I would like to sort of standardize on a particular model for certain amperages.

What I have now is a mixture of westinghouse, AB, siemens.

I want a good breaker for a good price.





Thanks


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

that sounds like an expensive proposition, with all the different frame sizes, adjustment options, shunts, relays, and so on. I'd be interested to see what you end up deciding on, when you sort this out.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

Well, the easy part is probably the smaller ones. The bigger ones are definitely a little more $$$

I am leaning towards the AB 1489 series with the D curve for 25A and under. But have not decided on anything for the larger sizes yet.


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Not meaning to be rude, but have you any idea what you are doing? 
Apart from the amazing variety of breaker brands out there, and the multiple amp ratings .... in an industrial setting you can also select from a variety of 'trip curves.' Some are UL 1489 listed, others are just UL 1077.

"Surface mounting" can be everything from a bolt holes through the breaker, to a separate base, to a DIN rail.

Industrial breakers like Allen-Bradley make Square D's QO line look like a discount line.

Now, if you have a regular customer with know uses, or live in a market dominated by one brand, things might be different.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

Well, if I knew what I was doing 100%, I don't suppose I would have started this thread. 

I will admit that my initial post was a little vague, I did that so that I may become aware of new things I suppose.

I guess, looking back on the question, it is a little too open ended given the variety of products available. I don't think any particular UL listing matters to me in my applications. Just as long as the breaker is suited for 3phase 480 ac.

And I also assumed that surface mounting was just holes through the breaker. I did not consider DIN rail to be surface mount and was not aware that breakers where commonly available with a separate base.



So let me break it down, and just look at one of the applications.
At the top of my list as far as the impact that could be made to the cost would be the 400 amp breaker. That is the largest breaker that I have, and I have them in at least 5 or 6 places feeding motor loads. I just lost a Westinghouse that I believe is a TA400LA and replaced it with the only spare I had, A Siemens JXD63B400. It was not a inch perfect fit, but I made it work. I do not have a listing of what I do have. But our stuff is probably 90% fuses and the breakers we do have are not that special.



So I figured I was looking for a breaker with adjustable overload protection in addition to the standard short circuit protection. However, since you questioned my knowledge, maybe I do not need the overload protection in the breaker, if that is already taken care of with my starter/overload combo. It would be redundant to have it both places. But I see it done very often.


If cost was not an issue, I suppose I would only look at Allen Bradley, but cost IS an issue. Not the only issue, but I need a good value.


So for example - the AB 140M-L series. I imagine it will be at the top of the prices, but would another brand/model be a good alternative while saving some $$$. Are there some brands/models that I should stay completely away from? Pros and cons to different manufacturers, etc.

That sort of thing.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

I will say that I have been using the AB 100 contactors with the 193 overloads to replace my smaller motor starters as needed. Basically the same thing as the 309 combo starters.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Acro, you are missing the point I think. You need to consider coordination issues and time current curves before swapping breaker types, and you need to check AIC ratings as well or you could have a huge mess on your hands.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

Well, I am not looking for part# specific recommendations. I can spec that out - maybe I should have said that. I am looking for general Manufacturer/Model experience.

With the AB breakers - I am aware that they offer two curves or interrupt ratings. One type for high inrush or transient loads like motors, and one that would trip a little faster. I imagine other breakers have similar capabilities. 



In this case, I don't think it is that complicated. I am condensing my notes and getting a list of what breakers I have. Most of the smaller ones are ITE E43 series.

I just want to keep something on hand for breakdowns.


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

Send your list to www.astrocontrols.com , they will hook you up.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

acro said:


> With the AB breakers - I am aware that they offer two curves or interrupt ratings. One type for high inrush or transient loads like motors, and one that would trip a little faster. I imagine other breakers have similar capabilities.


 
Acro.,

I am pretty sure you are aware about the curves for overload rating that part which I am famuair on European side but for Americiane side it should be simauir and BTW there is total of 4 class but most purpose they use the latter two ( class C et class D ) 

And Zog did mention the AIC rating there are some case you will need higher AIC rating and you will have to look at the specs little closer espcally with 480 Volt system ( 415 volts in European side ).

I know I did catch your comment about the D curve that typically I used on transfomer or hard to start motour load.

Merci,
Marc


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

Thanks for the tip, Zog. I am not opposed to good used units or reconditioned either. I will check them out.


I do appreciate the discussion. It prompted me to do something I should have done before - which is to make an actual, organized listing of what I have in use.

In doing so, I found a failure in process and fixed it last night.









90 amp at the time and my temp gun showed over 500f.


After replacing the wire I could see obvious damage to the terminal on the breaker. And I did not have another good breaker on hand. But I did have the old one from the other day that was the same model, so I did some surgery and got it back up and on line.














And to get back on track, I think I am going to have to find a better rep at my local AB supply house. Or... have you guys set me straight.

I am referring to a 2008 Industrial Controls catalog which shows the C and D trip curve options for the 1489 series breakers. I asked him which was more popular with his customers, as he did not stock the D series. He responded that his book only shows the A and the D series, while the A is for AC and the D is for DC.

Now, my 2008 catalog shows both the C and the D being UL listed for 480Y/277V AC and no mention of the A curve. I guess I asked the question wrong, as there are A and D body styles, but he should have known what I was talking about as I did supply him with Cat. No's




And back to my original question, does anybody have an opinion on different brands? Or at a minimum, brands to avoid?


Thanks


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## Amish Electrician (Jan 2, 2010)

Given my druthers .... well, look at each firms' web site or catalog. Can you find the info you need? Is there someone you can call who actually answers the phone?

I find the Siemens site to be awful. A-B is cumbersome, but you can learn it. Square-D doesn't break down part numbers at all. C-H is of little help.

Those are my observations.

A very real problem is that the parts you currently have in use are likely to be 'obsolete.' That is, you'll get little help in looking up the proper replacement. That's where the phone # becomes important.


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## acro (May 3, 2011)

Amish Electrician said:


> A very real problem is that the parts you currently have in use are likely to be 'obsolete.' That is, you'll get little help in looking up the proper replacement. That's where the phone # becomes important.



Likely? Ha! I say definitely. :laughing: You aught to see some of the starters we are still using.


I tend to agree with you on the Siemens and AB sites. Glad to hear it's not just me. That is why I lean towards the printed manuals.


Thanks


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