# Bending wires excessively



## thoenew (Jan 17, 2012)

334.24?


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

cletis.20?


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## sarness (Sep 14, 2010)

Neat and workman like manner, and no.


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## nitro71 (Sep 17, 2009)

No worries..


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## jagg79 (Jan 28, 2012)

I don't have a code book yet so I wasn't sure.


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## IBEWRockstar (Nov 10, 2011)

I had an engineer tell me not to do that because it can create a low impedance path to ground.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

IBEWRockstar said:


> I had an engineer tell me not to do that because it can create a low impedance path to ground.


Huh?


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

IBEWRockstar said:


> I had an engineer tell me not to do that because it can create a low impedance path to ground.


Did he give you an explanation as to how it can do that?? Makes no sense to me.


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## al_smelter (Jan 25, 2011)

Someone please elaborate or explain post #7. I've been in the field for a very long time, but I can learn new things with the best of them.

I have installed many panels and sub panels in industrial settings where the client REQUIRED bent 90 degree wires in their control power panels. And this with STRANDED wire. Very pretty when complete. Very little room for errors though.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*slow*

It slows the protons down and creates a multiple high resistive parallel electron loop which can escalate if not kept under control


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Cletis said:


> It slows the protons down and creates a multiple high resistive parallel electron loop which can escalate if not kept under control





Exactly! The electricity has to slow down to make those sharp bends! :laughing:


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## mbednarik (Oct 10, 2011)

but if you loop the wire it will cool the electrons making the wire suitable for a lot more amps.:laughing:


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

*Exactly*



mbednarik said:


> but if you loop the wire it will cool the electrons making the wire suitable for a lot more amps.:laughing:


YEah. You can get more amps that way. It's like a garden hose. When you have a tough spot to knock of your car, you squeeze the hose to build up potential energy and when you let go you get extra kinetic (squirting action) :thumbup:


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## MasterE (Dec 31, 2011)

jagg79 said:


> I don't have a code book yet so I wasn't sure.


You need to get one, IF your going to do any electrical work. Do you have a Licence Yet? or are you working for a Contractor.


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## kaboler (Dec 1, 2010)

low-impedance path? maybe from stretching the insulation. I've packed a couple switches/receptacles too hard and shorted through the insulation.


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## user8640521 (Jan 17, 2009)

Cletis said:


> YEah. You can get more amps that way. It's like a garden hose. When you have a tough spot to knock of your car, you squeeze the hose to build up potential energy and when you let go you get extra kinetic (squirting action) :thumbup:


i'm sorry, but squeezing your hose will neither make your hose longer, nor make it squirt better.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

mbednarik said:


> but if you loop the wire it will cool the electrons making the wire suitable for a lot more amps.:laughing:


But to many loops cause the electrons to get dizzy and they may become lost.
If they do find the load they will be to weak to do any work.


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## Cletis (Aug 20, 2010)

You have to add centifugal force multiplier of r^2 (0.8) for loops voltage drop


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Cletis said:


> You have to add centifugal force multiplier of r^2 (0.8) for loops voltage drop


That formula only applies to 277/480 systems.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

According to 334.24 the tightest bend radius of NM is 5 X the cable diameter. So if we assume the individual conductor are treated the same rule, a insulated #12 is approximately .145" X 5 = .725" multiply that by 2 to get the diameter of the object to bend around, 1.45" The tightest bend should not be less than if you formed your bends around a scrap of 1" EMT. (Aprox.)
IMA 90 degree angles are a violation and they look stupid.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

With high frequency, high voltage such as lighting, tight bends can cause issues. At 60 HZ I Doubt it,, though you can damage the insulation or deform the strands with tight bends, The deformed strands issue can pose a problem at termination connectors.


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## Motorwinder (Dec 30, 2010)

In wiring and motor winding, we avoid sharp turns, and sharp points because of possible voltage spikes.


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## IBEWRockstar (Nov 10, 2011)

eric7379 said:


> Did he give you an explanation as to how it can do that?? Makes no sense to me.


I don't remember his explanation, it was over 20 yrs ago


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## jmsmith (Sep 10, 2011)

brian john said:


> With high frequency, high voltage such as lighting, tight bends can cause issues. At 60 HZ I Doubt it,, though you can damage the insulation or deform the strands with tight bends, The deformed strands issue can pose a problem at termination connectors.


I agree with this... With radio frequencies and high voltage, I was taught NO sharp bends. With insulated wire, you actually can "thin-out" the insulation enough to allow voltage to "punch through" the insulation. By deforming the wire, you can also create hot spots which can eventually result in failure.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

IMHO 90 deg bends look silly. I prefer gentle sweeps. Lol


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## CDN EC (Jul 31, 2011)

Cletis said:


> YEah. You can get more amps that way. It's like a garden hose. When you have a tough spot to knock of your car, you squeeze the hose to build up potential energy and when you let go you get extra kinetic (squirting action) :thumbup:


and 



Motorwinder said:


> In wiring and motor winding, we avoid sharp turns, and sharp points because of possible voltage spikes.


Motorwinder just intelligently confirmed Cletis' "squirting electricity" theory :laughing:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

324.24 is for NM cable. Once it is inside the panel and stripped down to the conductors inside is it still NM cable? Is there a code rule regarding individual #12 **** wires? I know there is for the larger conductors, so maybe the #12 should be bent at no more than 5 times its diameter which is about what you get anyway when you bend it into a 90 with two pairs of linemens pliers. 





* unspecified insulation type


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

kaboler said:


> low-impedance path? maybe from stretching the insulation. I've packed a couple switches/receptacles too hard and shorted through the insulation.


 
Why does this not surprise me?


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

brian john said:


> With high frequency, high voltage such as lighting, tight bends can cause issues. At 60 HZ I Doubt it,, though you can damage the insulation or deform the strands with tight bends, The deformed strands issue can pose a problem at termination connectors.





Motorwinder said:


> In wiring and motor winding, we avoid sharp turns, and sharp points because of possible voltage spikes.





jmsmith said:


> I agree with this... With radio frequencies and high voltage, I was taught NO sharp bends. With insulated wire, you actually can "thin-out" the insulation enough to allow voltage to "punch through" the insulation. By deforming the wire, you can also create hot spots which can eventually result in failure.


 
I completely agree with all of these scenarios. When we run wire/cable for motors, we adhere to all of these.


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## eric7379 (Jan 5, 2010)

When we wire up a PLC rack, we pretty much have to use 90 degree bends. This is all control wiring though, so there are no concerns about spikes or high voltages. Usually the voltage is 24VDC, sometimes it is 120VAC or 24VAC.


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