# ladder



## busymnky (Feb 16, 2009)

http://www.faxko.com./index.html
Anybody seen or used one? The tri legs look a bit flimsy. The Little Giant almost killed me last time!


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Electrical and aluminum ladders do not mix.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Electrical and aluminum ladders do not mix.


Why are you working hot?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Why are you working hot?


How do you do a service change in Iowa? :blink:

I don't use aluminum ladders, but do S/C all the time hot.

The POCO even gives us permanent tap connectors for permanent splices :thumbup:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> How do you do a service change in Iowa? :blink:
> 
> I don't use aluminum ladders, but do S/C all the time hot.
> 
> The POCO even gives us permanent tap connectors for permanent splices :thumbup:


 
There's no need to ever do a service change in Iowa. We do it right the first time. 

We simply call the POCOs and have them disconnect at the transformer. When all is inspected and done, they switch it over to the new service.

But in the rare occasions I work a service hot, it's not an aluminum ladder that gets pulled out. I use an aluminum ladder (Little Giant #17) mostly for roughing in a new house.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> There's no need to ever do a service change in Iowa. We do it right the first time.
> 
> We simply call the POCOs and have them disconnect at the transformer. When all is inspected and done, they switch it over to the new service.
> 
> But in the rare occasions I work a service hot, it's not an aluminum ladder that gets pulled out. I use an aluminum ladder (Little Giant #17) mostly for roughing in a new house.


 
Much better to do them hot.. then connect a temp outlet to the drop.

Then you have somewhere to plug the light and radio :thumbsup:

Beats using a generator :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Much better to do them hot.. then connect a temp outlet to the drop.
> 
> Then you have somewhere to plug the light and radio :thumbsup:
> 
> Beats using a generator :laughing:


 
95% of the time, I can leave the old service in place until I'm done building the new one. Because the new service is not permitted to go in the same location as the old one.

So I don't have to do anything with the old one save for getting prepared to switch the circuits to the new panel.

If push comes to shove, I can build a new service with cordless tools. If I need light, I put a 12v bulb in a drop light and I have a short extension cord with alligator clips so I can get power from the truck battery.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

See OSHA 1926.1053(b)(12) hot or not.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> 95% of the time, I can leave the old service in place until I'm done building the new one. Because the new service is not permitted to go in the same location as the old one.
> 
> So I don't have to do anything with the old one save for getting prepared to switch the circuits to the new panel.
> 
> If push comes to shove, I can build a new service with cordless tools. If I need light, I put a 12v bulb in a drop light and I have a short extension cord with alligator clips so I can get power from the truck battery.


Why can't you put the new service where the old one was?  

That makes no sense at all :blink:


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

OSHA 1926.1053(b)(12)
Ladders shall have nonconductive siderails if they are used where the employee or the ladder could contact exposed energized electrical equipment, except as provided in 1926.951(c)(1) of this part.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> Why can't you put the new service where the old one was?
> 
> That makes no sense at all :blink:


 
Old service is the the back half of the house. New services are required here to be in the front half of the house.

Or, the old service is fed by a service drop that is too close to the roof, so the new service is on the other end of the house.

The new service must meet all the current requirements when locating it within the structure. 95% of the time, it needs to get moved for this fact alone.



drsparky said:


> OSHA 1926.1053(b)(12)
> Ladders shall have nonconductive siderails if they are used where the employee or the ladder could contact exposed energized electrical equipment, except as provided in 1926.951(c)(1) of this part.


In 99% of electrical work, there's no exposed energized equipment nearby when you're working with a ladder anyway.


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## busymnky (Feb 16, 2009)

Actually it was the weight at full extension, working alone on some ice that gave me trouble.
You haven't really lived till you plant that metal ladder in the wet snow and climb up to troubleshoot that 277v lighting though! lol
Working live and working stupid are two different things. Every once in a while you'll have to take a chance. That's why I spent money on hot gloves, boots with a rating. I'm all for safety, but if I wanted to feel safe- I wouldn't have picked construction.


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## busymnky (Feb 16, 2009)

Have to add- taking a chance is not like flipping a coin. The first and most important aspect of being safe is thinking clearly and carefully. Then there's my good friend lectricmeter (sic). Followed by hot gloves, layers of insulating tape and if it's called for, an apprentice with a 2x4.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

480sparky said:


> In 99% of electrical work, there's no exposed energized equipment nearby when you're working with a ladder anyway.


Working for yourself I don't think OSHA applies, but for the rest of us electricians can not use metal ladders. If you change a light bulb hot you are exposed to energized electrical equipment. If OSHA walked onto a construction site and saw an aluminum ladder with our equipment they would tell us to get out the check book.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Working for yourself I don't think OSHA applies, but for the rest of us electricians can not use metal ladders. If you change a light bulb hot you are exposed to energized electrical equipment. If OSHA walked onto a construction site and saw an aluminum ladder with our equipment they would tell us to get out the check book.


If I'm roughing in a new house, where is my exposed energized equipment?

As for changing a lamp, you can always LOTO the circuit.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

I agree with drsparky and would really enjoy watching Ken talk his way out of a fine with the OSHA guy.:thumbup:

We have little Giants, but they are fiberglass.


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

OSHA guy aside, I think a real problem with aluminum is the lazy factor. If it's already out and you do have to do something on or near hot stuff seems awful easy to go ahead and do it. Personally, it seems a bad idea for aluminum to be on a work truck. Even installing elevators that was my policy and 95% of the ladder work then is mechanical.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

aluminum ladders have no place in the professional electrical world.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Would someone care to show me in a new house I am roughing in where the exposed energized equipment is?

For some reason, I manage to buy all my wire, boxes, conduit and panels that _don't_ have any electricity in it. Strange that it's such a localized thing that all you other guys are installing everything hot. Geez, what fun is it roping a house when you have to wear arc suits all the time?

For that matter, wouldn't you need to suit up to walk into the supply house just to pick up a roll of 14/2?


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

480 I hear what you are saying, I still stand behind the possibility that it is out at the wrong time and increasing exposure to electrical energy

I think I remember you own your company and can control conditions better. Still not sure if it is worth the lighter weight or lower price.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

s.kelly said:


> 480 I hear what you are saying, I still stand behind the possibility that it is out at the wrong time and increasing exposure to electrical energy
> 
> I think I remember you own your company and can control conditions better. Still not sure if it is worth the lighter weight or lower price.


The wieght of a fiberglass usually is not the problem for me. I have a 21' Little Giant Skyscraper and it's slightly over 100 pounds. I can't imagine lugging around one made in fiberglass. I don't even know of anyone who makes anything like it in fiberglass. And in many of the customs I do, this ladder is the only ladder that will 'get me there'.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I won't stir the pot and call the spelling police on TOOL :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> I won't stir the pot and call the spelling police on TOOL :laughing:


I'm not the Spelling SS. I am the Punctuation Polizi.


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## r6ckstar (Apr 3, 2009)




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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Would someone care to show me in a new house I am roughing in where the exposed energized equipment is?


Yeah, you can certainly go that route. But if you actually had to worry about OSHA inspections you would not let your employees pick and choose when to use non-conductive ladders and when they do not have to. You would only purchase non-conducive ladders. A large fine can change your thinking quickly. 



> For some reason, I manage to buy all my wire, boxes, conduit and panels that _don't_ have any electricity in it.


Yeah, your an awesome a electrician,:thumbsup: we always tie in the rolls of cable first and try to cut it fast. 

We have this stuff called temporary wiring, that can expose workers to electricity from something as simple as a broken lamp.

So yeah, your right, you could act like your workers would _never_ be exposed to hazards but if you worked a site that OSHA might really show up on you would be alone. Heck, I bet a lot of the GCs we work for would prohibit conductive ladders on site at all.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> Yeah, your an awesome a electrician,


It's "you're," not "your."


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

480sparky said:


> There's no need to ever do a service change in Iowa. We do it right the first time.
> 
> We simply call the POCOs and have them disconnect at the transformer. When all is inspected and done, they switch it over to the new service.
> 
> But in the rare occasions I work a service hot, it's not an aluminum ladder that gets pulled out. I use an aluminum ladder (Little Giant #17) mostly for roughing in a new house.


Yea maybe that works in Iowa but good luck trying to get the poco to work around your schedule in these parts.
And for what its worth I dont even own an aluminum ladder.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> It's "you're," not "your."


Peter... I will take up a collection so you can put a little blue light on your Honda Civic :thumbup:

If there is any money left over I will get you an "official" badge and matching gold plate whistle :laughing:

Only seems fair that we should make you the forum spelling sheriff :thumbsup:

That will keep you busy till that "other" job comes your way :whistling2:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> That will keep you busy till that "other" job comes your way :whistling2:


You seem rather fixated on my employment status. Are you a weirdo or something? :blink:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> You seem rather fixated on my employment status. Are you a weirdo or something? :blink:


Nope.. I just want to see what other job is better than being an electrician

It is one of the easiest ways of making a good living and being your own boss.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

We have an endless stream of "wanna be" electricians coming to this site looking for a way to get into the field.

You are *in* the field and looking for a way out.

If the job switch works for you, it could also work for them.

Years wasted trying to find a "future" is never a good thing and any experience from someone else could only help


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> Nope.. I just want to see what other job is better than being an electrician
> 
> It is one of the easiest ways of making a good living and being your own boss.
> 
> ...


I'm giving up electrical work because I really suck at it.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I'm giving up electrical work because I really suck at it.


I don't believe that for a minute :no:

Tell me you are bored with it and that makes sense :thumbsup:

Some people believe they are bound for a higher calling. :smartass:

You can always fall back into the electrical field.. just don't sell your rolls of tape on EBAY

They have always made a tight splice inside the walls :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> The wieght of a fiberglass usually is not the problem for me. I have a 21' Little Giant Skyscraper and it's slightly over 100 pounds. I can't imagine lugging around one made in fiberglass. I don't even know of anyone who makes anything like it in fiberglass. And in many of the customs I do, this ladder is the only ladder that will 'get me there'.


What is the working height of that ladder??

I have a 16' fiberglass "A" frame with steps on both sides

Only problem it weighs about 175 pounds and is a (2) man setup


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I don't believe that for a minute :no:
> 
> Tell me you are bored with it and that makes sense :thumbsup:
> 
> Some people believe they are bound for a higher calling. :smartass:


No, I really do suck at electrical work.  

As for my "higher calling", when the time is right I will reveal it. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> No, I really do suck at electrical work.


 
I still don't believe it :no:

You were smart enough to know exposed romex is not a threat to mankind :thumbup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Black4Truck said:


> I still don't believe it :no:
> 
> You were smart enough to know exposed romex is not a threat to mankind :thumbup:


Right, well anyone with half a brain should know that. :laughing:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Peter D said:


> No, I really do suck at electrical work.
> 
> As for my "higher calling", when the time is right I will reveal it. :thumbsup:


 Thank god....then maybe youll go away....(yea I spelled it wrong, so what)


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Thank god....then maybe youll go away....(yea I spelled it wrong, so what)


Now there's the Tony we all know and love. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Thank god....then maybe youll go away....(yea I spelled it wrong, so what)


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

captkirk said:


> Thank god....then maybe youll go away....(yea I spelled it wrong, so what)


Sorry, I won't give you that satisfaction. :no:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Black4Truck said:


> What is the working height of that ladder??......


 
19 feet.


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## slowforthecones (Sep 13, 2008)

nice ladder for those odd height jobs. i recently bought little giant fiberglass's for my trucks, it replaced the common 6/8/10/14 foot step ladders and 20' extension ladder.


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