# Klein "Depth Finder" fish tapes



## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

I love the idea of fish tapes marked to show depth. Really, I do. However, whose brilliant idea was it to put the tape in so that the highest measurement is at the hook? You end up having to do math every time you use it. No, math isn't that hard, but it's another chance to screw up. It's a good idea, but wrongly implemented in my opinion. To use it for direct reading you'd have to pull every inch of the tape through, then read the number, then roll it all back up again. If you have a 240' tape and you're measuring a 40' run then you'd have an extra 200' of tape to wind back onto the spool. Not my idea of a good time.


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## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

Mike in Canada said:


> I love the idea of fish tapes marked to show depth. Really, I do. However, whose brilliant idea was it to put the tape in so that the highest measurement is at the hook? You end up having to do math every time you use it. No, math isn't that hard, but it's another chance to screw up. It's a good idea, but wrongly implemented in my opinion. To use it for direct reading you'd have to pull every inch of the tape through, then read the number, then roll it all back up again. If you have a 240' tape and you're measuring a 40' run then you'd have an extra 200' of tape to wind back onto the spool. Not my idea of a good time.


A friend and I bought one of those. I sold it to him later on. It was 240ft long. I was also confused that the measurements started at the end of the tape.:laughing: 

After thinking about why the Ktools guys thought it that way; I came up with this conclusion:
If you have 240ft of tape and the front tip breaks or bends and you have to cut it and make a new one, then you can see how many ft you have left, for example: you'd have 233 ft left and then you can do the math. 
If the measurements started at the very tip, and you broke it or bent it and had to cut the tip and make a new one; then the First measurement would be 8ft:laughing:
That would be awkward and the math would be more difficult.:thumbsup:

Was I clear??


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

Yes, that's clear, but I've never broken a tape, and I'd rather have the convenience of having a 'properly' reading tape for the 5 or 10 years (or more) that it might last before it breaks.


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## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

Mike in Canada said:


> Yes, that's clear, but I've never broken a tape, and I'd rather have the convenience of having a 'properly' reading tape for the 5 or 10 years (or more) that it might last before it breaks.


Yes, I thought about that too.
The only fishtape I've broken was a very very old one.:laughing:

I would also like the measurements to start from the tip, that'd be easier.:thumbsup:


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Question what do you use that measuring fish tape for are you measure the length of your conduits for wire length ?


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## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

piperunner said:


> Question what do you use that measuring fish tape for are you measure the length of your conduits for wire length ?


I suppose so.
So that you can charge the exact length of wire.:thumbsup:


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Josue said:


> I suppose so.
> So that you can charge the exact length of wire.:thumbsup:



So you use a fish tape to measure the conduit length .

This fish tape has the footage stamped into the steel reel is it easy to push and read the tape just wondering ?

Guess they push it measure it and then pull it out twice what do they use to pull the wire in with a rope so i guess there doing twice the amount of work measuring then ordering there wire to length then coming back and pushing it down that conduit again seems like a waste of time .


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

The fish tape is a standard blued-steel fish tape that has laser-etched markings. If it gets rusty it will be quite hard to read, I would think. As it is it's not bad to read in reasonable light. The markings have no discernible 'depth' so it behaves just like a regular tape in terms of pushing it through, etc.

I used one when I was doing large pulls (45+ wires per conduit) on an industrial job. It really helps to get the accuracy so you can cut them the right size the first time. I check the depth before I pull the twine back. I hardly ever use a fish tape to pull wire.


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## administr8tor (Mar 6, 2010)

Mike in Canada said:


> I love the idea of fish tapes marked to show depth. Really, I do. However, whose brilliant idea was it to put the tape in so that the highest measurement is at the hook? You end up having to do math every time you use it. No, math isn't that hard, but it's another chance to screw up. It's a good idea, but wrongly implemented in my opinion. To use it for direct reading you'd have to pull every inch of the tape through, then read the number, then roll it all back up again. If you have a 240' tape and you're measuring a 40' run then you'd have an extra 200' of tape to wind back onto the spool. Not my idea of a good time.



Klein can't label it the correct way, they stole the idea from somebody else


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Mike in Canada said:


> The fish tape is a standard blued-steel fish tape that has laser-etched markings. If it gets rusty it will be quite hard to read, I would think. As it is it's not bad to read in reasonable light. The markings have no discernible 'depth' so it behaves just like a regular tape in terms of pushing it through, etc.



Let me ask question your from Canada just simple one do you do commercial work .


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

That Klein tape is junk. It ruined on us the second time we used it. Ill post a pic of it later, but trust me, they're junk.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> That Klein tape is junk. It ruined on us the second time we used it. Ill post a pic of it later, but trust me, they're junk.



Well why are they junk is it the footage that comes off or is it the pushing and pulling thats the issue .


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## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

We have one at work and it seems to be holding up pretty good. I understand some of the "number" complaints, but as Josue mentioned, you're going to end up doing a bit of math either way, and I'd rather have the big number on the hook end. At a glance you'll know how much tape is on the spool.

Determining a difference between numbers on a fish tape isn't any worse then doing it on a true tape. Just be sure you're reading it right, 0980 and 0860 are not the same number and can make for a lot of rabbit and an angry contractor.:whistling2:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

piperunner said:


> Well why are they junk is it the footage that comes off or is it the pushing and pulling thats the issue .


It jammed up in the reel. Wouldn't pull in or out, and I was pissed that day so it got slammed


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Demac said:


> We have one at work and it seems to be holding up pretty good. I understand some of the "number" complaints, but as Josue mentioned, you're going to end up doing a bit of math either way, and I'd rather have the big number on the hook end. At a glance you'll know how much tape is on the spool.
> 
> Determining a difference between numbers on a fish tape isn't any worse then doing it on a true tape. Just be sure you're reading it right, 0980 and 0860 are not the same number and can make for a lot of rabbit and an angry contractor.:whistling2:


So you say you can read a 6 or a 9 upside down and come up short or long do ya think mule tape is accurate meaning if it was used over and over again or do you trash it once used .


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

piperunner said:


> Let me ask question your from Canada just simple one do you do commercial work .


 More industrial than commercial, but yes I do commercial work.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> It jammed up in the reel. Wouldn't pull in or out, and I was pissed that day so it got slammed


 I had that happen a few times when helpers had been using it. If I'm using a fish tape to pull (rarely) then I pull on the tape, I don't pull using the handle on the spool. I found that if you pulled the spool instead of the tape it would jam up, but I was able to un-jam it every time.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

That's exactly what happened. I had a new guy using it, rookies


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Mike in Canada said:


> More industrial than commercial, but yes I do commercial work.



Well Mike many years ago i started designing stuff for the electrical trade some testers small specialty tools and made a conduit length tool and a few other things for other tool companys during my time which never really took off on the market so i stopped making it .

Its not being sold now but i always kept a spot on U Tube go to superconduits tell me what ya think most guys in commercial like it but it just never took off market & money you need lots of that to go out there today . So when someone talks about measuring i just laugh about it . My company has 8 of them weve been measuring all our stuff for years and we do lots of large new construction mostly commercial projects . 

Take care let me know what Canada thinks of it Mike .


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

I see really no benefit to having it marked, I have the 25' one. I've got a 200' Ideal thats about 6 years old. 

If you push the snake into a conduit run to use it as a means of measuring, are you going to leave it in there until you have the length of wire ordered? 

Or are you going to pull it out, only to push it back in again.

Or are you going to push it in and pull a measuring tape back through that you can half-hitch onto your wires later on? That would negate the markings on the snake right there.

The only benefit I can see is if you're doing a T&M job and have to keep track of the wire you pull through to charge accordingly.


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## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

piperunner said:


> So you say you can read a 6 or a 9 upside down and come up short or long do ya think mule tape is accurate meaning if it was used over and over again or do you trash it once used .


We generally don't reuse it. Pull it in, snip it, get measurement. Later when the wire comes, we use it to pull the rope in, and the use the rope to pull the wire in. The true tape is trashed at that point.

Over enough time, with enough snipping, and you're getting numbers like 0940 on one end, and 1010 on the other end, for a 70 foot pull. 

I gave the example as kind of a joke. I caught the error when one of the measurements given by another apprentice was longer then how much pipe we had ordered. So we didn't actually order the wire, but it 'could' have happened.


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

thegoldenboy said:


> Or are you going to push it in and pull a measuring tape back through that you can half-hitch onto your wires later on? That would negate the markings on the snake right there.


 I have never used measuring tape. I can only assume that it's more expensive than twine.


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

Mike in Canada said:


> I have never used measuring tape. I can only assume that it's more expensive than twine.


The company I used to work for pretty much used only that. On large pulls we would use it to get the length of wire needed and if it couldn't cut it, we would use it to pull a rope through.


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## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

thegoldenboy said:


> I see really no benefit to having it marked, I have the 25' one. I've got a 200' Ideal thats about 6 years old.
> 
> If you push the snake into a conduit run to use it as a means of measuring, are you going to leave it in there until you have the length of wire ordered?
> 
> ...


Pole lights last summer. I pushed no less then 3 separate fishtapes (1 ideal, 2 greenlee) into the conduit between bases, with none of them reaching. All were 200ft tapes. With a known distance of slightly under 200ft between bases (known from how much pipe was consumed), I was assured each time that "this one will reach", even though I tried explaining that each of the tapes had been trimmed a few times. After the last one, the journeyman sensed that things were about to get ugly and we went and got a new klein tape, the 240ft one. 

Sure would have been nice if each of those first three would have shown that there was less then 200ft on the spool when I pulled them out.

But yea, there might not be as many uses for it as Klein would lead you to believe.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Demac said:


> We generally don't reuse it. Pull it in, snip it, get measurement. Later when the wire comes, we use it to pull the rope in, and the use the rope to pull the wire in. The true tape is trashed at that point.
> 
> Over enough time, with enough snipping, and you're getting numbers like 0940 on one end, and 1010 on the other end, for a 70 foot pull.
> 
> I gave the example as kind of a joke. I caught the error when one of the measurements given by another apprentice was longer then how much pipe we had ordered. So we didn't actually order the wire, but it 'could' have happened.


Yup thats what we have seen for many years cant see numbers mud water dirt helper gets wrong number i dont like pulling mule tape in and ive seen it break in the pipe and get stuck in the pipe .

Its kinda expensive labor lost money spent on wire to short or long lost lengths on paper no one remembers who lost it . Oh ya it goes on and on .


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## thegoldenboy (Aug 15, 2010)

You can tell by the end if it's been cut or still intact. I wouldn't trust a snake without a factory end to be long enough if the known length of the conduit was just under the total length of the snake.


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## Demac (Apr 28, 2010)

thegoldenboy said:


> You can tell by the end if it's been cut or still intact. I wouldn't trust a snake without a factory end to be long enough if the known length of the conduit was just under the total length of the snake.


I couldn't agree more. Let me give you the phone # of the guy making the decisions that day...


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Mike in Canada said:


> I had that happen a few times when helpers had been using it. If I'm using a fish tape to pull (rarely) then I pull on the tape, I don't pull using the handle on the spool. I found that if you pulled the spool instead of the tape it would jam up, but I was able to un-jam it every time.


I ditch the reels they come in and respool into a peice of PVC conduit in the shape of a crescent that would make a full circle of roughly a metre then when I shoot it down the conduit, I just have to count the coils left in the PVC to give me a rough idea how long the pull is going to be, on a 30m fish if I have 7 coils left in my hand I can judge that the conduit is roughly 23m long.


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## tates1882 (Sep 3, 2010)

I have a ideal one with footage marks on them, counting up as you pull more tape out. I use it to measure feeders for panels or for measuring for mwbc when I only have a 1 spool of each color.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

tates1882 said:


> I have a ideal one with footage marks on them, counting up as you pull more tape out. I use it to measure feeders for panels or for measuring for mwbc when I only have a 1 spool of each color.



Well would it not be less expensive to just have a tool that measures polyline or jetline and install with a vaccum once and let the digital counter do your math with no mistakes that will last for years .


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## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

It is convenient for troubleshooting, if you are trying to find how far an obstruction is.


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## piperunner (Aug 22, 2009)

Wireless said:


> It is convenient for troubleshooting, if you are trying to find how far an obstruction is.


Thats a good point a fish tape is good for that but you must know were the conduit run is if its under a slab and you dont know how or who installed it what then ?


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## Mike in Canada (Jun 27, 2010)

piperunner said:


> Well would it not be less expensive to just have a tool that measures polyline or jetline and install with a vaccum once and let the digital counter do your math with no mistakes that will last for years


 I very rarely pull twine with a vacuum, so the fish tape works just as fast for me as this item would be, but it's a very cool bit of kit. I love the idea, and if I did more PVC conduit I'd love it even more.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Its pretty handy in ordering bigger wire sizes Right on the money..I love watching my guy say....Oh that wire looks short.... Ive had the Ideal one for about a year and it still works like new...Its all about how you take care of your tools. I occasionally take a wd 40 soaked rag and hold it on the tape while I roll it up.


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## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

mcclary's electrical said:


> That Klein tape is junk. It ruined on us the second time we used it. Ill post a pic of it later, but trust me, they're junk.


I used that Klein tape once or twice, it was hard to wind it up after using it.

My dad bought an ideal fish tape. What a difference!!!!!! This one is very easy to wind up and feels sturdier.:thumbsup:


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

The Ideal one is really smooth.When Im on a ladder I just leave the spool on the floor and it rolls off real easy..you dont even have to hold it. And it rolls up just as easy.


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