# Safety Concerns With Current Employer



## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

Welcome to the forum.

It is absolutely not best practice to work on anything energized but it is done all the time. The short of it is that you need to look out for yourself. Maybe during an interview with a prospective employer ask about their safety program and if they don't have one that may help you decide on who you work for.

Pete


----------



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Your near term defense must be to have voltage ticks with you at _all_ times.

I'm stunned that after you've seen his 'style' that you are not wanding everything in sight.

I'd also start looking for a safer company.

I'd also start a diary of events.


----------



## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

telsa said:


> Your near term defense must be to have voltage ticks with you at _all_ times.
> 
> I'm stunned that after you've seen his 'style' that you are not wanding everything in sight.
> 
> ...


This is good advice. I would leave this company ASAP.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Good advice above. Everyone takes some risks, but if they are avoidable, avoid them, yah. 

Your story underlines the fact that there are limitations to every kind of tester, and that you should test the testers daily. 

I'm not giving advice, but just saying if I was in your shoes, along with looking to make a move to another employer, I'd be supplying my own testers from now on, and listening to them, not him, and not his testers. A Knopp K-60, an Ideal 61-035, and a Santronics 3115 will run you about $100.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

Keep a journal. Check everything you work on. I work alone 95% of the time and still yell "panel going hot" before throughing the breaker when on smaller jobs. I inform "everyone" before on larger ones.


----------



## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

,I wouldn't continue working for the guy. (you will end up in the hospital or dead).interview at a different electrical contractor and tell them what you told us at the interview see if they have a safer methodology.


----------



## Michigan Master (Feb 25, 2013)

The story about pulling wire into live gear inches from live bus tells me this guy isn't up to date with safety and/or doesn't care about safety. I'd probably start looking for someplace better. 

In the mean time, make sure you understand how a tick tracer works and it's limitations; being new to the trade, if you didn't read the manufacturer's instructions you probably aren't aware.

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f12/every-electrical-helper-apprentice-should-learn-lesson-129305/
.


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

A lot of the what you describe just sounds like the guy is old-school; he's from the era where intentionally doing hot work was less frowned upon.

The part that really bugs me is where his unsafe habits have accidentally lit you up, yet he sees no problem with that. If he wants to risk himself, that's his lookout. But any fool should be able to recognize when their actions are directly jeopardizing others, and he apparently doesn't.

This is a guy who doesn't respect electricity. You need to find another job.


----------



## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

unless you've isolated and locked out the power always check with your meter or wiggy before you touch any exposed conductor!
even if you've only been away from it for 5 min.

anyone could have powered up the circuits while you were away!

*there is absolutely no reason for anyone to be working live*
so if you can *always lock it out*.

and yes i echo this message go elsewhere for work as its not safe for you or anyone else who works with him

not to mention all the legal problems he would have if anyone got hurt

feel free to show him this post!


----------



## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

while you are at it look up and download arc flash videos and the pictures of the injuries and show him what he is risking!

may do some good and maybe not 
if it doesn't do him any good to see what happens then he will eventually earn his darwin award
just hopefully no one else has to get one too because of him


----------



## rjo430 (Nov 18, 2015)

Thank you for all of the responses! After reading through what everyone had to say I'm definitely going to start looking for another employer right away. A lot of what he was doing didn't sit right with me, so it's good to know that his way of doing things is not exactly the norm these days and I'm better off finding a safer contractor to work with.

I will definitely be purchasing some new testing equipment so I know I have good tools to work with. I guess it's just best practice to test everything and assume that it's live before starting on any projects, no matter who I'm working for.


----------



## cbledsoe89 (Nov 16, 2015)

I work with live wires all the time for the company I work for (due to working at banks and other places of business) But I'll never ask anyone who is inexperienced or uneducated to do so and as everyone else is saying NEVER take someone's word for it ALWAYS check the circuit or work it like it's hot.. I prefer to work everything as if it is hot just in case.. welcome to the trade


----------



## pcmike (May 14, 2009)

I'm now an OF (O = old, F = anything you want to call me).

When I came up in this trade, what the OP described is the way we worked on a daily basis. We learned how to safely work on or near energized circuits up to 480 volts and did that every day.

I was shocked many times -- I still hate even the shock of static in the winter -- but only had one bad episode (I melted down an allen wrench in my hand working on a 480v MMC starter.)

BUT -- that was 40 years ago. Now there is no excuse for working on or near energized circuits which can be shut down safely.

When I later had my own contracting company, none of my employees were allowed to work on energized circuits except for trouble-shooting -- when the problem was found, the circuit was de-energized and repaired. If anything had to be done hot, I did the work myself.

If your employer will not abide by the new safety rules -- NFPA 70 -- look for an employer who is safe. Also, get a non-contact tester, check it each day and use it to make sure you are working de-energized. Your life and welfare is worth too much to continue working for in an unsafe manner. 

Be safe and protect yourself.


----------



## dreamcrusher28 (Oct 19, 2010)

Couldn't even read the entire OP , made me cringe. Quit immediately. You are not working for an electrical contractor. You're working for a dangerous lunatic.


----------



## LuckyLuke (Jun 1, 2015)

Tell him why you are quitting and email him a link this thread. He will quickly find out he is in the minority out there and falls under the "scumbag contractor" category.


----------



## billymac93 (Apr 4, 2015)

Reading your note gave me a sense of deja-vu - I think every electrician has experienced what you have seen and most, not all, will feel as you do. Some will say not to make waves as you are the FNG. Workplace safety is everyone's concern. I tend to work with leather gloves when working of anything I have not locked AND confirmed electrically dead. Having your own tools will help but using them correctly is key. Whether it be a meter or non-contact voltage tester of some sort, get in the habit of the "Three point rule": test the circuit you are working on;then check a known live circuit;then go back and check the first circuit again. Ultimately your safety is your responsibility. We don't want to refer to you as "Stumpy" or worse, in the past tense.


----------



## ELECTRICK2 (Feb 21, 2015)

rjo430 said:


> Thank you for all of the responses! After reading through what everyone had to say I'm definitely going to start looking for another employer right away. A lot of what he was doing didn't sit right with me, so it's good to know that his way of doing things is not exactly the norm these days and I'm better off finding a safer contractor to work with.
> 
> I will definitely be purchasing some new testing equipment so I know I have good tools to work with. I guess it's just best practice to test everything and assume that it's live before starting on any projects, no matter who I'm working for.


Welcome to the forum and stay safe. As an employee it is your responsibility to refuse unsafe work. I understand that sometimes it's tough to do but you gotta. Eventually he'll be pulling those feeders by himself. As others have stated you have to test your tester, no matter what type they are. You seem to have some smarts, I'd hire you but it would be a long commute:laughing:


----------



## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

I echo the concerns of all here and recommend that you seek employment elsewhere. Treat everything like its live and educate yourself about the business and how to work safely in the business ie electrical classes, get an OSHA 10 or 30 card and learn about NFPA 70. 
Remember knowledge is not power APPLIED knowledge is power 

Work safe.


----------



## Electron Transporter (Dec 31, 2014)

OP

If you are anywhere near Denver, there isn't a big company that ISN'T hiring right now. A simple Craigslist search will confirm this. I bet it's never been easier to find employment than now in this area. I think my employer alone has about 40 1st yr's in school this term (IEC). If you have a heartbeat and a body temperature near 98*, you can find a job today  

Pretty much all of the big EC's in Colorado have a no hot-work policy in place and it's strictly enforced. In the rare event we need to do hot work, we fill out a "hot work permit", it gets reviewed by our company and we plan everything out, including a suit up in a hot suit. However for the most part, there's very little that cannot be shut down. If we can't do it during the day, we do it after hours, or plan a shut down. Simple really. 

Working hot is not something that can be taught quickly and it needs to be taken seriously. Maybe it was the norm 10 yrs ago, but not anymore, at least with larger employers. I think Insurance companies pretty much mandated this practice. 
Good luck.


----------



## redblkblu (Mar 3, 2012)

One of my first journeymen told me "You're not touching anything hot as a first year. Second year it's game on."

I still do a fair amount of hot work but I don't think that statement would go over very well most places these days.


----------



## Bogart (Jul 20, 2015)

There is no reason to do anything hot short of a few exceptions and even then you better be geared up. 

It doesn't take much to make your life miserable


----------

