# commercial lighting control ideas



## telsa (May 22, 2015)

My first hunch is that power is so cheap (LEDs) that he should just put up with it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

farlsincharge said:


> Not sure how many of you are familiar with agriculture type operations, but to sum it up in one word "cluster****".
> 
> In any case I'm planning out a 10k sq ft mechanic shop for an operation that has regular and seasonal employees with a high turnover rate. Multiple endeavors with varying schedules etc. Long story short the owner is sick of lights never getting turned off.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a reasonable way to go.


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## Forge Boyz (Nov 7, 2014)

What about enough lights spread around the shop to keep it safe that would be on a switch and the rest on motion sensors? Then it would be safe but they could have a fair amount of energy savings.

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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Forge Boyz said:


> What about enough lights spread around the shop to keep it safe that would be on a switch and the rest on motion sensors? Then it would be safe but they could have a fair amount of energy savings.


I was thinking something similar, enough LEDs to navigate safely always-on, and the rest on timers. My only worry is how many is enough? You'd have to test and document with a light meter etc. to avoid a potential safety issue. 

Leviton makes some timer switches where you push the button and they go on for three hours. When they're about to turn off, they flash a few times. They have them in the electrical and mechanical rooms at one of my customers. It's fairly annoying but it's basically workable. When they flash you have to put down what you're doing to bump the switch and get another three hours. 

You could work these switches into the scheme. I'd put SOME of the lights on this timer, and the rest on a relay with the coil powered by this switch, the contacts powering the rest of the lights. (I'd use a timer relay that will hold the contacts closed through the flashing but open them once the lights go all the way out.) 

So SOME of the lights go out when you're near the end of the timer, someone has to go bump the switch and keep going. 

(PS, I'd rather make the occupancy sensors work than go with that rigmarole, but the OP asked for an alternative.)


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

Just put in occupancy sensors.

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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

TGGT said:


> Just put in occupancy sensors.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk


I totally second this. Just use wattstopper or something decent. Ceiling mounted. Make sure your coverage is right.


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## just the cowboy (Sep 4, 2013)

*Just removed occupancy sensors*

We are moving into a new building and they just installed highbay lighting with occupancy sensors. We did not even start up yet and they had to remove the sensors, if no one was near a light it would time out but because of the area they covered it was a distraction when the lights around you keep going off and on. 

It was a design flaw I know because they used sensors on each light, so it was a flash off here, a flash on there, a flash on/off everywhere.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

The fundamental problem is that the work scene is quite unpredictable.

That's a killer.

As Cowboy relates, occupancy sensors don't 'work' over a production floor. They drive the talent nuts.

The cost of logical controls can't ever be recovered by power savings -- when the lights are LEDs.

And it's wasted juice that's driving the owner nuts.

It sounds like he's about to waste a LOT more $$$$ saving energy than he'll ever, ever, save back out of his power bill.

Sometimes the best solution is just do nothing.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

sbrn33 said:


> I totally second this. Just use wattstopper or something decent. Ceiling mounted. Make sure your coverage is right.


So when there are cars on the lifts with guys working underneath the place goes black?


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## TGGT (Oct 28, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> So when there are cars on the lifts with guys working underneath the place goes black?


Wall mounted OS.

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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

telsa said:


> The fundamental problem is that the work scene is quite unpredictable.
> 
> That's a killer.
> 
> ...



As I've said before here, in this type instance occupancy sensors can be a PIA.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

TGGT said:


> Wall mounted OS.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk


Not usually that much open wall space in most auto shops, then they also may move their tools cabinets around in larger shops and block a sensor.

That would have to be determined by the shop layout.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

The repair shop I done not too long ago.,, what I did have mixed bag of motion sensors plus few lights are non sensored so due few lights are stay on all the time for good reason due some of mechanics work under the vechiles and those motion sensors go off at wrong time.

some of larger repairs shops do not use motion sensor instead they just used the master switches to turn on or off the lights. 

That part the insurance company may ask you why put a motion sensors in a repair shop .,, if someone get hurt when the motion sensor go off at wrong time. that is kinda a grey area.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> The repair shop I done not too long ago.,, what I did have mixed bag of motion sensors plus few lights are non sensored so due few lights are stay on all the time for good reason due some of mechanics work under the vechiles and those motion sensors go off at wrong time.
> 
> some of larger repairs shops do not use motion sensor instead they just used the master switches to turn on or off the lights.
> 
> That part the insurance company may ask you why put a motion sensors in a repair shop .,, if someone get hurt when the motion sensor go off at wrong time. that is kinda a grey area.


The only shops I've had decent luck at all with any remote sensors (light/heat/humidity/occupancy/etc) were very high end service bays such as Mercedes and other auto top shelf dealers.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The only shops I've had decent luck at all with any remote sensors (light/heat/humidity/occupancy/etc) were very high end service bays such as Mercedes and other auto top shelf dealers.


The last one with very high ends auto repair shop I work in Philippines.,

Their wall mounted workbench lights are never on motion sensor but the rest of the area can be on motion senors. 

The showroom is on motion sensor but instering twist is the light stay dim on motion sensor cycle and when someone come in it will go bright mode but when no one is there it go dim mode. 

that is one suggest you can try that in repair bay area. is using low/high light mode.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

frenchelectrican said:


> The last one with very high ends auto repair shop I work in Philippines.,
> 
> Their wall mounted workbench lights are never on motion sensor but the rest of the area can be on motion senors.
> 
> ...


Had a few dealerships that had stepped lighting like that in the showrooms, it can be a nice tough indeed.

That is really big with boat dealerships as some weeks they may not have any foot traffic in the show rooms for days.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> So when there are cars on the lifts with guys working underneath the place goes black?


With a system designed as it should be, that would not happen. there would be enough movement and you could set the timer to time out at a half an hour.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

you can use dimming for safety as well, dim them down in steps over time to give someone an opportunity to force them on. maybe leave a couple on 100% longer than the others as well. i like occupancy sensors, you do have to buy the correct one for the application it is to be used for though.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

You're not thinking like the talent.

Every auto mechanic will HATE such a scheme.

He'd have to put down his tools -- in mid stride -- to make the control circuit happy.

The power/ $$$$ saved is too trivial.


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