# Ordered Surface Mount Fixtures, Fixtures recieved labeled *NOT APPROVED FOR SURFACE*



## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

I must be strange but my first thought would be return them and get the right fixtures. 


If the fixture has a label that says not for surface mounting I am not going to mount them on the surface.

BTW, it's great to see the results of union training paying off and the likely illegal side jobbing being done.


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## rayrocksweet (Nov 12, 2012)

BBQ said:


> I must be strange but my first thought would be return them and get the right fixtures.
> 
> 
> If the fixture has a label that says not for surface mounting I am not going to mount them on the surface.
> ...


 
thank you I appreciate your helpful, up building post. I am in the process of returning them, but your post doesn't answer the question of why are they not suitable for surface mount when it seems plain that the fixture housing is designed to.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Sorry, can't help you, and don't want to.

I hate Union guys doing side work without the proper insurance and experience, and besides, you take food out of other legit merit contractors babies mouths.


Have a good day...


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> Sorry, can't help you, and don't want to.
> 
> I hate Union guys doing side work without the proper insurance and experience, and besides, you take food out of other legit merit contractors babies mouths.
> 
> ...


That is a losing battle.. here we have plenty of cops and firemen that run side businesses on their days off... 

At least the Union guy is in the trade and has some knowledge of what he is doing..


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

B4T said:


> At least the Union guy is in the trade and has some knowledge of what he is doing..


:blink:

He wants to use the wrong fixture for the job. That does not speak well of his qualifications.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

BBQ said:


> :blink:
> 
> He wants to use the wrong fixture for the job. That does not speak well of his qualifications.


I was talking in general about guys doing side work.. I also said some knowledge..


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

If he was a true hack side jobber, he would have figured out a way to surface mount them.

OP: They're not approved for surface mounting because they're not designed for surface mounting.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Sounds like a homeowner hack looking for free advice to me.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

As the others have stated, not excited about work being taken away from licensed contractors. You are assuming a great deal of liability if anything goes wrong.

But, in the interest of education, all ballasts create heat. Some more than others. So, the manufacturer has determined, that fixture requires adequate ventilation to prevent premature failure.
There are some fixtures which are designed to allow mounting directly on the surface, however, most of those have a small offset built into the frame, allowing air to circulate.

Good for you to recognize that the fixture you received is not rated for surface mount. Many apprentices and Journeymen, would not have noticed.


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## rayrocksweet (Nov 12, 2012)

so when I took the fixtures back to the supply house I asked him the same thing I am currently asking you: why isn't approved for such a use? he kindly stated what wcord said. There are slits in the top of the fixture that cannot be blocked to allow airflow to cool the ballast and avoid premature failure and unsatisfactory operation. He did not know of any safety concerns. There needs to be at least 4" of space to allow for proper ventilation. I really was hoping to use 54w t5hos but there probably isn't a surface mounted fixture that has said ballast. Didn't want to use 4' t8 tandems, but looks like that's my best bet now. 

I am really taken back by the responses on this thread. Only one is helpful, all the rest are rather disparaging. You all seemed to think I was going to use the fixtures. If it says I cannot install it a certain way, why would I? If I could help anyone, tradesman or not, union or not, I would and I thought others here would be like minded. I guess not.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

rayrocksweet said:


> If failed to concise my problem in the title, I ordered surface mount fixtures for a garage and received fixtures with a sticker on the back *not approved for surface mount.* I was pretty upset but was wondering what could be the safety risk.
> 
> The fixtures are stonco 4 lamp 54w t5ho hibays. (TBN454EB18) I see no reason why it cannot be surface mounted, they have standoffs seemingly designed for surface mounted purposes.
> http://www.stonco.com/uploads/library/Spec/TBN.pdf
> ...


In bold you will see the reason why you didn't get much help burning down someones house.


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

Dnkldorf said:


> Sorry, can't help you, and don't want to.
> 
> I hate Union guys doing side work without the proper insurance and experience, and besides, you take food out of other legit merit contractors babies mouths.
> 
> ...


There ya go. Yeah that's helpful turn your back on him! Yeah he'll learn that way. Bro


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

rayrocksweet said:


> so when I took the fixtures back to the supply house I asked him the same thing I am currently asking you: why isn't approved for such a use? he kindly stated what wcord said. There are slits in the top of the fixture that cannot be blocked to allow airflow to cool the ballast and avoid premature failure and unsatisfactory operation. He did not know of any safety concerns. There needs to be at least 4" of space to allow for proper ventilation. I really was hoping to use 54w t5hos but there probably isn't a surface mounted fixture that has said ballast. Didn't want to use 4' t8 tandems, but looks like that's my best bet now.
> 
> I am really taken back by the responses on this thread. Only one is helpful, all the rest are rather disparaging. You all seemed to think I was going to use the fixtures. If it says I cannot install it a certain way, why would I? If I could help anyone, tradesman or not, union or not, I would and I thought others here would be like minded. I guess not.


You need to be careful! with your work and your union. We join unions for a cause and wire things properly for a cause.


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

rayrocksweet said:


> I am really taken back by the responses on this thread. Only one is helpful, all the rest are rather disparaging.


I am also taken aback that professionals on this website have the gall to disparage an apprentice doing illegal side work. 

Who do you legitimate professional contractors and journeymen think you are with your skills, knowledge and licenses! HOW DARE YOU!


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

Don't mind these fools bud. I've cut corners on multi million dollar machines and I'll be damned if I ever let some manufacturer instructions stop me from doing what's right. **** em, get paid


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## FrunkSlammer (Aug 31, 2013)

lol What pony boy says is true, we've all done it and will do it again tomorrow. 

It's even better when it's apprentice side jobs for cash, what do these fools expect?


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Chrisibew440 said:


> There ya go. Yeah that's helpful turn your back on him! Yeah he'll learn that way. Bro


Sorry, have to urn my back on him, and so should every legit EC.

He is doing illegal work. He has no insurance, is not a legal business, and is violating his agreement with the Union, that he so very much cherishes.

I highly doubt he will turn his back, when the Union tells him to go picket someone for taking away work from them.

Full cirlce, bro, full circle.......


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## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

rayrocksweet said:


> ...., *I ordered surface mount fixtures* for a garage and received fixtures with a sticker on the back *not approved for surface mount.*


This is where you made your first big mistake.
These are quite obviously NOT surface mount fixtures.
Right on the first page of the catalog listing, under "Product Specifications":


> "Accepts stem, pendant, chain or cable mounting."


You and your supply house friend missed this tidbit.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

rayrocksweet said:


> If failed to concise my problem in the title, I ordered surface mount fixtures for a garage and received fixtures with a sticker on the back *not approved for surface mount.* I was pretty upset but was wondering what could be the safety risk.
> 
> The fixtures are stonco 4 lamp 54w t5ho hibays. (TBN454EB18) I see no reason why it cannot be surface mounted, they have standoffs seemingly designed for surface mounted purposes.
> http://www.stonco.com/uploads/library/Spec/TBN.pdf
> ...


Union trained electrician here:

They would most likely be just fine but, they were not tested as "surface mount" . Maybe due to the way the fixture is vented or something like that.
Put a fender washer between the fixture and the ceiling and call it a stand-off and all is good. :thumbsup:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

chrisibew440 said:


> you need to be careful! With your work and your union. We join unions for a cause and wire things properly for fun and profit.


fify


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Don't mind these fools bud. I've cut corners on multi million dollar machines and I'll be damned if I ever let some manufacturer instructions stop me from doing what's right. **** em, get paid


Yes i'm sure your level of professionalism exceeds that of manufacturers , and impresses the owners of multi million dollar machinery installs on a daily basis Pony....


That said, for the benefit of the rest here who aspire to, yet fall short of such natural endowment ...... T5's run *hot*......most of the 110.3B out of the package and/or tech support will inform the installer how to mitigate this inherent hazard 

~CS~


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

I've violated the UL listing of stuff plenty of times, but wouldn't in this case. Too much heat. Use T8s.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> Yes i'm sure your level of professionalism exceeds that of manufacturers , and impresses the owners of multi million dollar machinery installs on a daily basis Pony.... That said, for the benefit of the rest here who aspire to, yet fall short of such natural endowment ...... T5's run hot......most of the 110.3B out of the package and/or tech support will inform the installer how to mitigate this inherent hazard ~CS~


I thought my sarcasm was obvious


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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> I thought my sarcasm was obvious


It was not, I thought you were serious.


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)




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## BBQ (Nov 16, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> View attachment 31011


:lol::lol:

We have all been there.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> I thought my sarcasm was obvious


My bad, apparently i've not cultivated the on line insight to distinguish those bloated egos from self deprecation .....

~CS~


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## ponyboy (Nov 18, 2012)

chicken steve said:


> My bad, apparently i've not cultivated the on line insight to distinguish those bloated egos from self deprecation ..... ~CS~


Thank you??


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## Chrisibew440 (Sep 13, 2013)

jrannis said:


> Union trained electrician here:
> 
> They would most likely be just fine but, they were not tested as "surface mount" . Maybe due to the way the fixture is vented or something like that.
> Put a fender washer between the fixture and the ceiling and call it a stand-off and all is good. :thumbsup:


What's so hard about getting new fixtures.


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## Knightryder12 (Apr 4, 2013)

Dnkldorf said:


> Sorry, can't help you, and don't want to.
> 
> I hate Union guys doing side work without the proper insurance and experience, and besides, you take food out of other legit merit contractors babies mouths.
> 
> ...


Don't hold anythiing back Dnkldorf, let us know how you really feel. And BTW, I totally agree with you.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

BBQ said:


> :blink:
> 
> He wants to use the wrong fixture for the job. That does not speak well of his qualifications.


 That's a lot better than off duty cops burying extension cords calling it UF for landscape lighting.


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