# 240v on one leg of range outlet



## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

ok here is what is happening. got a new oven and the display will not work, the burners do. called a tech out, and he says there is a voltage issue with the house, bad neatral. I check voltage at the plug, 120v phase to neutral both legs, 240 between phases. plug in the oven and I get 240v phase to phase, 240v from one phase to neutral, the other leg appears dead. took the whip off the range/oven and hooked a incadesent lamp between one phase and neutral to test neutral. the phase the light is hooked to drops out and shows 240v on the other phase, and phase to phase. is this a bad neutral or breaker?


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

something is burnt or loose in your system. you need to check all the way back to the breaker panel etc.


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

*tried that*

re seated and tightened all connections, even took the breaker out and reseated it. no obvious signs of anything burning or arcing.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

cgtighe said:


> re seated and tightened all connections, even took the breaker out and reseated it. no obvious signs of anything burning or arcing.


if you did all that it should work, try buying new breaker


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

cgtighe said:


> re seated and tightened all connections, even took the breaker out and reseated it. no obvious signs of anything burning or arcing.


did you tighten neutral connections in your breaker panel?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You have a bad neutral somewhere. Everything will read fine unless their is a load. If you get 240 to neutral then I bet you get 0 to neutral on the other phase.


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## abcreech (Dec 12, 2013)

I would check neutral connections through out!


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Just had this happen last week. Connections all looked fine, turned out to be the SE the range was fed with had been laying in water under the house and the neutral strands were crumbling apart in the middle of the run. Wasnt a problem until they got a new stove with digital display


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

*neutral*

took the neutral off the bar and then connected it in a different hole on the bar


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

cgtighe said:


> ok here is what is happening. got a new oven and the display will not work, the burners do. called a tech out, and he says there is a voltage issue with the house, bad neatral. I check voltage at the plug, 120v phase to neutral both legs, 240 between phases. plug in the oven and I get 240v phase to phase, 240v from one phase to neutral, the other leg appears dead. took the whip off the range/oven and hooked a incadesent lamp between one phase and neutral to test neutral. the phase the light is hooked to drops out and shows 240v on the other phase, and phase to phase. is this a bad neutral or breaker?


Are you using a solenoid tester or a digital meter?


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

Hippie said:


> Just had this happen last week. Connections all looked fine, turned out to be the SE the range was fed with had been laying in water under the house and the neutral strands were crumbling apart in the middle of the run. Wasnt a problem until they got a new stove with digital display


 tried to hook the light up to the circuit at the plug after i had the problem with the cord. all the same stuff still happened


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

cgtighe said:


> ok here is what is happening. got a new oven and the display will not work, the burners do. called a tech out, and he says there is a voltage issue with the house, bad neatral. I check voltage at the plug, 120v phase to neutral both legs, 240 between phases. plug in the oven and I get 240v phase to phase, 240v from one phase to neutral, the other leg appears dead. took the whip off the range/oven and hooked a incadesent lamp between one phase and neutral to test neutral. the phase the light is hooked to drops out and shows 240v on the other phase, and phase to phase. is this a bad neutral or breaker?


Is this three wire or four wire?
Do you have a ground wire to work with?


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Are you sure there isn't a problem at the pole or at the service? or is this problem just about the range-- if so then you have a bad cable or some connection in the range etc.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

cgtighe said:


> took the neutral off the bar and then connected it in a different hole on the bar


That's probably not going to help


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

Hippie said:


> That's probably not going to help


 That was a response to other questions


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

jrannis said:


> Is this three wire or four wire?
> Do you have a ground wire to work with?


 3-wire, no ground


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

jrannis said:


> Are you using a solenoid tester or a digital meter?


 older analog meter, not digital, not a hotstick


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

cgtighe said:


> 3-wire, no ground


If you are not an electrician, don't try this.
Try reterminating the cable in the panel with the white wire as one of the hots and the black as a neutral and see if the readings are the same.
If you smell something burning, turn it off.
Make sure the receptacle is disconnected, if it's a
3 wire the ground might be connected to the yoke.

Put it back right away!


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

Did you try to eliminate the receptacle from the occasion? (Equation) fixed it for me



jrannis said:


> If you are not an electrician, don't try this.
> Try reterminating the cable in the panel with the white wire as one of the hots and the black as a neutral and see if the readings are the same.
> If you smell something burning, turn it off.
> Make sure the receptacle is disconnected, if it's a
> ...


 

Before I did anything of this nature I would be using a continuity tester instead.


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## Hairbone (Feb 16, 2011)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Are you sure there isn't a problem at the pole or at the service? or is this problem just about the range-- if so then you have a bad cable or some connection in the range etc.


 
Great Call! Had a hand hole in customers yard that constantly got flooded. Connections oxidized to three times the size till it failed.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

Mshow1323 said:


> Did you try to eliminate the receptacle from the occasion?
> 
> 
> 
> Before I did anything of this nature I would be using a continuity tester instead.


 


Rule #1 ... CALL AN ELECTRICIAN ! :whistling2:


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

I am an electrician, I hooked the light up at the breaker and it worked fine so i assume the service is ok.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

*Need Help.*

Before you do anything ! 

*CALL AN ELECTRICIAN ! :whistling2:*


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

1 word 
megger!
check the whip first,(completely disconnected from the stove) then the house wiring.
if the wiring in the house is visible anywhere look for damage from rodents or nails/screws
and finally check the breaker carefully (remove it from the panel and check the resistance)
you may see a small difference in the readings here but if the reading is large then the breaker is failing.


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## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

cgtighe said:


> i am an electrician, i hooked the light up at the breaker and it worked fine so i assume the service is ok.


 licenced ???


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

cgtighe said:


> I am an electrician, I hooked the light up at the breaker and it worked fine so i assume the service is ok.


on a drier/range circuit you can get a loopback voltage that will light up a tester and read full voltage even if one leg of the breaker is bad.


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

*explanation*

why does the unloaded leg go to 240v and the loaded leg go to 0 when a load is applied. I would think the breaker would trip if there is some kind of short between phases or to ground shouldn't the breaker trip? I am a younger electrician and this is the first time i have seen this.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

cgtighe said:


> I am an electrician, I hooked the light up at the breaker and it worked fine so i* assume* the service is ok.


That can get you in more trouble when troubleshooting.


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## cgtighe (May 31, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> licenced ???


 yes, 3 years a journeyman


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

cgtighe said:


> yes, 3 years a journeyman


you need to do a thorough troubleshooting of that entire circuit to the stove, plus the stove. there's only so many things that can be wrong with that circuit, we can't troubleshoot it over the Internet.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

cgtighe said:


> why does the unloaded leg go to 240v and the loaded leg go to 0 when a load is applied. I would think the breaker would trip if there is some kind of short between phases or to ground shouldn't the breaker trip? I am a younger electrician and this is the first time i have seen this.


You're reading 240 because one lead of your tester is on A phase and the other is on B phase thru the element. Put your ohm meter between a known good ground or neutral such as a nearby receptacle and the other on your range receptacle neutral. If you read high or infinite resistance that will tell you the neutral in the range wire is bad


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

Lep said:


> you need to do a thorough troubleshooting of that entire circuit to the stove, plus the stove. there's only so many things that can be wrong with that circuit, we can't troubleshoot it over the Internet.


We just told him what's wrong and how to find it.. now its just a matter of fixing it... that we definitely can't do over the internet


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

the loop back voltage is when you have voltage in one leg of the supply but not the other.
while the one circuit works they share a common neutral and feeds back through the dead leg
you can read a voltage at the breaker even if its bad.
i had this same situation during my 1st year as an apprentice while working on a gould jet pump
my journeyman got quite a chuckle but explained it clearly by drawing a loop on a sheet of paper and showing test points.

i still use this method for teaching apprentices on 3 phase motors:laughing:


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

gnuuser said:


> the loop back voltage is when you have voltage in one leg of the supply but not the other.
> while the one circuit works they share a common neutral and feeds back through the dead leg
> you can read a voltage at the breaker even if its bad.
> i had this same situation during my 1st year as an apprentice while working on a gould jet pump
> ...




That is true if you have circuits that are 240v that are on. The voltage will go through an element to feed the other phase. But this is not a situation of a bad phase as he has 240 to neutral on one phase. 

There are only a few things it can be -- this is not rocket science esp. if it is only on that circuit.

Assuming in electrical will get you nowhere fast


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

that why i said megger the circuits earlier 
without being there to see it i would suspect neutral issues.
but its a matter of elimination of all possible causes.
pain in the arse i know but good learning experience


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## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

To the Op>>>>>>>>>>>

Take the wire/cable loose from both the stove receptacle and the panel

Tie one of the hots to the neutral, either with a large wire nut or strong alligator clip, splice of some sort etc.

Go to the other end and check continuity between the hot you used and the neutral.

Do the same with the other leg

Do the same with the two hots

If you don't get continuity with any combination of the hots to neutral, but do with just the hots, you have a bad neutral.
You might have some reading but it should be fairly low, say close to 0-5 ohms if it is good and you have a good connection during the test.


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

gnuuser said:


> the loop back voltage is when you have voltage in one leg of the supply but not the other.
> while the one circuit works they share a common neutral and feeds back through the dead leg
> you can read a voltage at the breaker even if its bad.
> i had this same situation during my 1st year as an apprentice while working on a gould jet pump
> ...


how does your loop Theory work on them Multi wire circuit, 3 phase motors?
I got to write this stuff on paper anymore I'm getting too old.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

the picture isnt very good but clear enough to see
using continuity testing with main shut off. 
you will have continuity L1- T2, L1-T3, L2-T3 but not on L1- L3,or L2-L3

powered : voltage reading
across T1-ground=240 volt
across T2-ground =240 volt
across T3 - ground =240 volt (because voltage will loop back through the windings to T3)

reading across fuses
if fuse is good! 
L1 to T1 0 volts
L2 to T2 0 volts
L3 to T3 480 volts (showing open fuse) (again looped circuit)

although if using a star wound device the voltage on the legs would be different but same principle.

contiuity testing the leads on a 3 phase motor will show some resistance but a shorted winding as well as an open one would give you a drastically different reading


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## Mshow1323 (Jun 9, 2012)

cgtighe said:


> ok here is what is happening. got a new oven and the display will not work, the burners do. called a tech out, and he says there is a voltage issue with the house, bad neatral. I check voltage at the plug, 120v phase to neutral both legs, 240 between phases. plug in the oven and I get 240v phase to phase, 240v from one phase to neutral, the other leg appears dead. took the whip off the range/oven and hooked a incadesent lamp between one phase and neutral to test neutral. the phase the light is hooked to drops out and shows 240v on the other phase, and phase to phase. is this a bad neutral or breaker?




Did we find the problem?


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

Hope you took notes kid....great clinic guys:thumbup:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

You have a broken neutral prior to your panel, check meter pan and utility drop . The 120 volts on the neutral is open currents from other loads in the house looking for somewhere to go. You very well might end up releasing the magic smoke from electronic items while this current finds passage to the otherside.


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

Shockdoc said:


> You have a broken neutral prior to your panel, check meter pan and utility drop . The 120 volts on the neutral is open currents from other loads in the house looking for somewhere to go. You very well might end up releasing the magic smoke from electronic items while this current finds passage to the otherside.


how true how true:thumbup:


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## galley4u (Jun 13, 2020)

cgtighe - how did this situation resolve? Just ran into this today. Thanks!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

galley4u said:


> cgtighe - how did this situation resolve? Just ran into this today. Thanks!


All the members from 2013 are dead from getting a knee on the neck by police officers.. Didn't matter whether black or white, the cops killed everyone who wouldn't use Kenny Clamps.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

galley4u said:


> cgtighe - how did this situation resolve? Just ran into this today. Thanks!


So we're bumping posts from 2013 rather than making your own? 

Please take a few minutes to fill out your profile as per the user signup agreement and also read all the forum rules.

Are you having issues cooking hot dogs?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

macmikeman said:


> All the members from 2013 are dead from getting a knee on the neck by police officers.. Didn't matter whether black or white, the cops killed everyone who wouldn't use Kenny Clamps.


You just can’t help yourself, can you?


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## CoolWill (Jan 5, 2019)

99cents said:


> You just can’t help yourself, can you?


When he's right, he's right.


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