# Panel change with old wiring



## iAmCam (Dec 3, 2007)

Hello I am quoting a panel change in a house for my wife's friend. I haven't done a lot of work on older residential homes. I am mostly a commercial industrial guy. Went and looked at this house and am not quite sure about the old wiring. Never seen the green clothe? Covered romex/lumex before besides in pictures. I was planning on installing a junction box above the panel and then extending everything to the new panel. Or does this old wiring need to be fully replaced? What is the best solution? Any advice is appreciated.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

iAmCam said:


> Hello I am quoting a panel change in a house for my wife's friend. I haven't done a lot of work on older residential homes. I am mostly a commercial industrial guy. Went and looked at this house and am not quite sure about the old wiring. Never seen the green clothe? Covered romex/lumex before besides in pictures. I was planning on installing a junction box above the panel and then extending everything to the new panel. Or does this old wiring need to be fully replaced? What is the best solution? Any advice is appreciated.


Get a new panel that will take care of those circuits and make it work, if the wires are short just splice them.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

I'd drop a dime to the AHJ to see what they require.


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

Good thing you're in Canada where they allow panels to be mounted sideways. 

The green/orange stuff should be OK. Most is stamped CANADA WIRE and has a ground. I would only see an issue if there was some without a ground then I would check with the inspector.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

No problems with that cable at all. One thing you will want to check out though - the City of Edmonton issued a bulletin last year saying that residential services must be code compliant when you do a panel change. I would copy and paste the email but it's on my old computer which is dead. Maybe give the Inspections Group a call.

They're also looking for the "highest breaker at eye height" rule.


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## Black Dog (Oct 16, 2011)

99cents said:


> No problems with that cable at all. One thing you will want to check out though - the City of Edmonton issued a bulletin last year saying that residential services must be code compliant when you do a panel change. I would copy and paste the email but it's on my old computer which is dead. Maybe give the Inspections Group a call.
> 
> They're also looking for the "highest breaker at eye height" rule.


How tall is "eye height" ?:laughing:


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

Black Dog said:


> How tall is "eye height" ?:laughing:


1.7 meters (I'll save you the trouble, it's 67") to the top of the top breaker.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Yeah, I said "eye height" so the Americans wouldn't have to strain their brains and do metric conversion  .


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

99cents said:


> Yeah, I said "eye height" so the Americans wouldn't have to strain their brains and do metric conversion  .


 I hate doing metric conversions. I don't even know what a centimeter is. Or maybe I do. One tenth? one one hundreth? of a meter? I guess I don't know after all.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

te12co2w said:


> I hate doing metric conversions. I don't even know what a centimeter is. Or maybe I do. One tenth? one one hundreth? of a meter? I guess I don't know after all.



It's easy to remember what a centimeter is if you simply sing the metric-converted song _Inchworm_.

2.54-centimeterworm, 2.54-centimeterworm, measuring the marigolds......


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

te12co2w said:


> I hate doing metric conversions. I don't even know what a centimeter is. Or maybe I do. One tenth? one one hundreth? of a meter? I guess I don't know after all.


On the job, we still use feet and inches. I use a tape measure in feet and inches. Those combo tape measures with standard on one edge and metric on the other drive me nuts. About the only time I convert from feet to meters is when I order cut wire.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

480sparky said:


> It's easy to remember what a centimeter is if you simply sing the metric-converted song _Inchworm_.
> 
> 2.54-centimeterworm, 2.54-centimeterworm, measuring the marigolds......


Seems easier just to Google "metric conversion"...

Marigolds???


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

99cents said:


> Seems easier just to Google "metric conversion"...
> 
> Marigolds???


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## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

When I look at Seventies Sesame street now, it just seems they were really stoned while making it. And into psychotropics. 

I would say the best solution would be to replace the wiring. If it can be done correctly and safe.

Age wear can increase resistance.


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## redblkblu (Mar 3, 2012)

Those metric sided tapes are handy when specs call for device heights in mm.

Even though they're ALLOWED not all of us are fans of sideways panels (myself included) I try to avoid it if at all possible but in some cases it's easier in a residential setting. Sideways panel on a new build.....hack hack hack IMHO


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## Almost always lurkin (Jul 30, 2014)

If you have to do a conversion in a hurry while you're online, a little-known feature of Google lets you convert units by typing what you want. 

five feet seven inches in centimeters 
as a search string will give you a Google-calculated result as the first answer. 

It's pretty useless for wire sizes though. Doesn't seem to understand AWG or MCM.


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

redblkblu said:


> Even though they're ALLOWED not all of us are fans of sideways panels (myself included) I try to avoid it if at all possible but in some cases it's easier in a residential setting. Sideways panel on a new build.....hack hack hack IMHO


Why? I don't even notice if a panel is sideways. I don't see any difference safety or functionality wise.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

RFguy said:


> 1.7 meters (I'll save you the trouble, it's 67") to the top of the top breaker.


OK ... 60" is 5' ... oh yeah .... you mean 5'7" ... You're kinda short, haha

Funny, most people around here will use C for temp and km for speed/distance ... But usually height is feet !

I still use 5' to water :thumbsup:


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## GrayHair (Jan 14, 2013)

480sparky said:


> It's easy to remember what a centimeter is if you simply sing the metric-converted song _Inchworm_.
> 
> 2.54-centimeterworm, 2.54-centimeterworm, measuring the marigolds......


I use one octet from an IPv4 address. Out of 256 possible, 0 is reserved for the network and 255 is reserved for broadcast, leaving 254 usable.


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## AK_sparky (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm confused...what's an inch? And why would anyone use one?


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

AK_sparky said:


> I'm confused...what's an inch? And why would anyone use one?


Kids these days ... :no: :laughing:


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## redblkblu (Mar 3, 2012)

AK_sparky said:


> Why? I don't even notice if a panel is sideways. I don't see any difference safety or functionality wise.


I think it's more an aesthetic thing in my own head than anything. Also if the hinges aren't tight enough and someone mounts it where the cover needs to be opened up. Like I say it's just my opinion


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## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

AK_sparky said:


> I'm confused...what's an inch? And why would anyone use one?


It's that thingy between, and its used to make babies.


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

redblkblu said:


> I think it's more an aesthetic thing in my own head than anything. Also if the hinges aren't tight enough and someone mounts it where the cover needs to be opened up. Like I say it's just my opinion


Upside down is a hack IMO , some panels better than others for that, but it still irks me


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

regardless of how you mount the panel as long as the circuits pass ir testing and are sufficiently sized it should be good to go
but if wiring is old chances are there is some age deterioration 

but that is also dependent upon local codes as well


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## emtnut (Mar 1, 2015)

degupita said:


> It's that thingy between, and its used to make babies.


Sounds better if you say it in mm then :laughing:


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

AK_sparky said:


> I'm confused...what's an inch? And why would anyone use one?


"inch by inch, step by step"
:laughing::laughing:


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## Bootss (Dec 30, 2011)

Rewiring a apartment in a fourplex cuz of a fire. Are they requiring main breakers in the load centers in the apartments now?


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## bobbarker (Aug 6, 2015)

Putting panels sideways looks weird to me but I bet it is easy to do service upgrades because of it. 
Does Canada have the rule where if you do a service change and have to splice more than six feet of wire you have to upgrade the whole circuit? My guess is with sideways panels it wouldn't be an issue anyway.


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## degupita (Jun 5, 2015)

Would they prefer a panel be vertical, for the breaker switch orientation?
Where it would be easier to know if you had turned a breaker off?

Though someone could get more used to the sideways angle, if they had it that way.


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## RFguy (Sep 11, 2013)

RFguy said:


> 1.7 meters (I'll save you the trouble, it's 67") to the top of the top breaker.





emtnut said:


> OK ... 60" is 5' ... oh yeah .... you mean 5'7" ... You're kinda short, haha


Good catch, Thanks


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

bobbarker said:


> Putting panels sideways looks weird to me but I bet it is easy to do service upgrades because of it.
> Does Canada have the rule where if you do a service change and have to splice more than six feet of wire you have to upgrade the whole circuit? My guess is with sideways panels it wouldn't be an issue anyway.


sideways is often easier because we cant put wires into the main breaker section like you do in us


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

The only time in my life I spoke and used metric was 
when I was in the Army . We're going to have to use it
eventually (as electricians) . NEC is already making the
metric system the primary and standard is secondary.
Eventually standard will be phased out completely.:whistling2:


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

lighterup said:


> The only time in my life I spoke and used metric was
> when I was in the Army . We're going to have to use it
> eventually (as electricians) . NEC is already making the
> metric system the primary and standard is secondary.
> Eventually standard will be phased out completely.:whistling2:



Welcome to the new world order. It only gets better and better.


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