# Never Worked in Philadelphia, What Should I Expect?



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee,if your considering moving back to Philly you should apply for The locals Apprentice program.We except app's the first 2 weeks in April.If your more interested in working non-union expect to travel,a lot.Philly and the surrounding area is very union and 98 has 90% market share in the city and the building trade unions in general have 100% market share in the major work area's,center city,university city,refinery's,hospitals,colleges,and major construction project's,like casino's,the airport,shipyard and manufacturing.

If you plan on working non union the vast majority of your work will be way out in the county's,if you live in the city limits plan on driving 60-70 miles each way for work for a lot of jobs.That's if you can find a shop hiring right now.

As far as PA being a "forced union state" I never heard that term be for and no one will "force" you to be union or not.It's your choice.

Decent money here for a non union electrician with less then 6 years commercial/industrial exp.and limited education in the field is around 14-18 bucks an hour.

If you want to move I highly recommend having a job lined up first,and I would highly recommend applying for local 98's apprenticeship.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Would they start him as a first year or accept his time in trade?


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

It really depends,If he has state approved accredited apprentice training then he would be placed at the corresponding level,If not he would be placed in first year class and first period pay rate,but even so,I fell it would be worth it.I don't assume to know what he makes but I know New Orleans is notorious for low wages.By the time he would be half way through his apprenticeship he would be making almost $30 an hour plus the beni's that go with it.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

If Frasbee's interested, http://www.atei98.org/applications.html


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

What ever you decide to do, DO NOT leave with out your ducks in a row. That is if your gonna have a spot in the hall come april ..have it before you leave if at all possible. I believe your gonna do that just because your asking here first..:thumbsup:


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh and I have heard that its cold up there/their:laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

The winters here are weird.We had a few mild ones but last winter was pretty cold and this winter has been very cold!We had 23'' of snow(all at once) about 3 weeks ago.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> It really depends,If he has state approved accredited apprentice training then he would be placed at the corresponding level,If not he would be placed in first year class and first period pay rate,but even so,I fell it would be worth it.I don't assume to know what he makes but I know New Orleans is notorious for low wages.By the time he would be half way through his apprenticeship he would be making almost $30 an hour plus the beni's that go with it.


I think not accepting some of their time in an open shop, is a IBEW weakness.

One can (or should be able too) test in. 3 years in the field and give him 2 years time.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

brian john said:


> I think not accepting some of their time in an open shop, is a IBEW weakness.
> 
> One can (or should be able too) test in. 3 years in the field and give him 2 years time.


I agree with that. I was in the same situation. Frasbee, good luck in Philly. Get out while you still can!


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> I think not accepting some of their time in an open shop, is a IBEW weakness.
> 
> One can (or should be able too) test in. 3 years in the field and give him 2 years time.


I tend to agree,to a point.The local will test guy's in who are organizing to place them at appropriate levels,but the application is for an "apprenticeship" program.I see your point of veiw and have had this conversation with agents before and there stance is "we offer the top training in the industry,to maintain standards new members need to go through the program".I see there point as for accepting "apprentices"but I feel the IBEW as a whole would benefit from taking more guy's like Frasbee and allowing them to test to a certain level and crediting them for timed served.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> As far as PA being a "forced union state" I never heard that term be for and no one will "force" you to be union or not.It's your choice.


Just a term I've hear to refer to non-right-to-work states, you'd have to google the term to understand where it came from or what it refers to.

Anyway, I am a bit concerned about whether or not I'll actually get employment through the Union once I get in. I don't like to sit around when I can find employment elsewhere. 

I'll admit, I have some reservations about making the move, especially since I'll be passing up stable employment and prevailing wages (good for New Orleans), at 15.49. I'm coming onto beginning my 3rd year in the trade, though I haven't technically been an indentured apprentice except since this past September. So I guess I'm really a 1st year apprentice.

Okay, so there's a pretty good chance I'll have to find employment through the Union. Can I find employment through a Union shop and join the Union through them? I'm not really sure how that all works. Also, is there any rhyme or reason on how they accept applicants? I believe I've developed a pretty solid resume of time and experience and have several good relevant work references. Though, would any of that matter if they want to start me from the bottom?

Yikes, I just clicked that apprenticeship link you posted, Slick. Local 98 has a 40 dollar processing fee, compared to Local 130's 20. The cost of living is definitely apparent through that alone.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> As far as PA being a "forced union state" I never heard that term be for and no one will "force" you to be union or not. It's your choice.



:whistling2::laughing:


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

> *Never Worked in Philadelphia, What Should I Expect?*


I was going to answer "gravy on your fries, and maybe on your cheesesteak", but then I read your post.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> :whistling2::laughing:


Wow like, a sixteen year old girl like, wants the pay and benefits that the like, union negotiated, but does not like, what to like, contribute. She could like, work at a lower paying, like non union like, grocery store like, Wal-Mart, but like, that's not like, fair, because like, Albertsons, pays, like more, and like, they treat, like their worker, like better. 
Great example Bob, that the best you got?:whistling2:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

drsparky said:


> Wow like, a sixteen year old girl like, wants the pay and benefits that the like, union negotiated, but does not like, what to like, contribute. She could like, work at a lower paying, like non union like, grocery store like, Wal-Mart, but like, that's not like, fair, because like, Albertsons, pays, like more, and like, they treat, like their worker, like better.
> *Great example Bob, that the best you got?*:whistling2:


It is directly on point. 

No matter how selfish she may be, she should not be forced to join the union as a condition of her employment. 

That is just nuts in a free country.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Just a term I've hear to refer to non-right-to-work states, you'd have to google the term to understand where it came from or what it refers to.
> 
> Anyway, I am a bit concerned about whether or not I'll actually get employment through the Union once I get in. I don't like to sit around when I can find employment elsewhere.
> 
> ...



Well if $15 per hour is the 3rd year rate in NO,I would definitely be applying to local 98's program you would start at the same money basically and that is for first period,first year pay rate.As a Journeyman you would be making about $49 per hour in the check.Hell the 3rd year rate here is twice as much as NO.
Honestly,they won't care much about your work history.Score high on the entry test and be prepared for the interview,and no you can't get in through a contractor,well not while the work is slow.Oh and one more thing if you get excepted to the program you go out to work right away,it's part of the agreement.

Even if you chose to work non union I feel that you have more opportunities to further your education and work experience here on the east coast then down there.

What ever you decide good luck:thumbup:


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Frasbee, 

Nobody gives a flying fart what you do. Only you know what is best for you.

If you do join up, they will only give you partial credit for your time. Don't get pissed about it, that's just the way it is. If you live from one payday to the next, you may want to remain on your present course. If you want something better, things will have to change for you, and it is going to be painful. It is what it is. Unless you have been going above and beyond, e.g. taking more classes in addition to your ABC classes, or have something more to offer, you may not make the cut.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> No matter how selfish she may be, she should not be forced to join the union as a condition of her employment.
> 
> That is just nuts in a free country.


That's affirmative, she is free to go work at Wal-Mart.
She is also free, once of age, to go dance for money.

It's a free country Bob, so quit crying about all the good companies you can't work for, because they hire men through an exclusive agreement.

Waaaaaaahh I can't work for such-and-such Electric for more money because I won't sign on with the local.... Waaaaaaaaahhh

Sounds alot like self-sabotage to me


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

miller_elex said:


> That's affirmative, she is free to go work at Wal-Mart.
> She is also free, once of age, to go dance for money.
> 
> It's a free country Bob, so quit crying about all the good companies you can't work for, because they hire men through an exclusive agreement.
> ...


:sleep1:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> That's affirmative, she is free to go work at Wal-Mart.
> She is also free, once of age, to go dance for money.
> 
> It's a free country Bob, so quit crying about all the good companies you can't work for, because they hire men through an exclusive agreement.
> ...


Not one thing you said there made sense or was accurate.:laughing:

It does show that you really are not for workers rights.:no:

Sorry dude you do not get to prohibit people from working just because they do want to join you're club.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> That's affirmative, she is free to go work at Wal-Mart.
> She is also free, once of age, to go dance for money.
> 
> It's a free country Bob, so quit crying about all the good companies you can't work for, because they hire men through an exclusive agreement.
> ...


I have to agree with miller elex on this one.Somebody was asking for advice and you high jacked the thread with your anti-union propaganda.You didn't even offer anything constructive to the conversation.So yae,you did come off like some crybaby.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> you high jacked the thread with your anti-union propaganda.



I did not hijack anything, _you_ had posted that no one is forced to join the union. I provided a link without any commentary at all that showed that to be false. If no one had asked me about it I would not have had to answer.:no:

I was not aware that pointing out facts was 'anti union'.


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

if someone wanted to join the union out of their area, do they need to be a resident of that local's jurisdiction? i have heard at the two locals near me that i must be a resident of their area in order to apply. so if i wanted to work in philly in the union, would i have to live there for awhile first before i apply?


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Good question, Ed.

I had lived in Philadelphia for 20 years of my life...even if I move for a few years and came back, I wonder if I could still be considered a resident...


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> I did not hijack anything, _you_ had posted that no one is forced to join the union. I provided a link without any commentary at all that showed that to be false. If no one had asked me about it I would not have had to answer.:no:
> 
> I was not aware that pointing out facts was 'anti union'.


No one asked you anything and yes the manner in which you presented the link and your subsequent post's prove to be just what I said they were.Everyone here knows were you stand but I noticed that in any thread were the word union is mentioned you feel the need to bash or discredit the union.

That video you posted is pure anti-union propaganda.It's obvious that girl was influenced by her parents beliefs and not by the "need to save money for college".So in your perfect America she should be able to obtain a higher paying job in which the conditions and wages were secured by a labor union but not have to contribute to that union.
Please get real,I bet if she was complaining about working at wallmart and not being treated fairly you would be one of those guy's telling her to stop complaining and "quite if you don't like it."
So which one is it Bob?,should she accept a job with a higher standard of wages and conditions or should she just quite if she doesn't like it.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Good question, Ed.
> 
> I had lived in Philadelphia for 20 years of my life...even if I move for a few years and came back, I wonder if I could still be considered a resident...


As long as you have an address with in the jurisdiction,your good.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> No one asked you anything and yes the manner in which you presented the link and your subsequent post's prove to be just what I said they were.Everyone here knows were you stand but I noticed that in any thread were the word union is mentioned you feel the need to bash or discredit the union.
> 
> That video you posted is pure anti-union propaganda.It's obvious that girl was influenced by her parents beliefs and not by the "need to save money for college".So in your perfect America she should be able to obtain a higher paying job in which the conditions and wages were secured by a labor union but not have to contribute to that union.
> Please get real,I bet if she was complaining about working at wallmart and not being treated fairly you would be one of those guy's telling her to stop complaining and "quite if you don't like it."
> So which one is it Bob?,should she accept a job with a higher standard of wages and conditions or should she just quite if she doesn't like it.


Now who is hijacking things?


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

bob you are such a loser. First off you aren`t even an electrician so why are you here other then to stir sht? Go off in your underpaid under skilled undereducated underneth real men world and screw in a lightbulb maintenance man and leave the working electricians alone.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

minibdr said:


> bob you are such a loser. *First off you aren`t even an electrician *so why are you here other then to stir sht? Go off in your *underpaid under skilled undereducated* underneth real men world and screw in a lightbulb maintenance man and leave the working electricians alone.



minibdr, by posting things like the above, which is entirely untrue you make yourself look like an idiot with nothing relevant to say.


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

Thats my point loser you at best might be able to handle a balst but doing real electrical work you cannot. You work in a building that was built for you. I build them and yet you talk here as if you are a journyman. Well you are maintaining what the rest of us create. As Archie Bunker would say styfle yourself dingbat.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

minibdr said:


> Thats my point loser you at best might be able to handle a balst but doing real electrical work you cannot. You work in a building that was built for you. I build them and yet you talk here as if you are a journyman. Well you are maintaining what the rest of us create. As Archie Bunker would say styfle yourself dingbat.


None of that is true, I hold j-mans lic in 3 states. I had to test for each and have run construction jobs from the ground up. But do not let the truth get in the way of trying to belittle me.:laughing:


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> None of that is true, I hold j-mans lic in 3 states. I had to test for each and have run construction jobs from the ground up. But do not let the truth get in the way of trying to belittle me.:laughing:


Bob,

What is a "service tech"?
Do you work on cars??


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

jrannis said:


> Bob,
> 
> What is a "service tech"?
> Do you work on cars??


Not that I have to explain myself here but with 25 years in I have done may types of work.

I have been a 'condo roper', a maintenance electrician for an amusement park, a large commercial project worker, second-man, foreman, and for the last 6 years or so I have been in what the companies have called 'special projects' that can be small new construction, remodels or odd ball jobs that take both people and electrical skills inside existing facilities. I also may run out and change some lamps and ballasts. Look at jobs and estimate them etc.

But again, instead of making it personal and trying to make me look bad how about trying to explain why a union would be trampling on a young workers rights?

I believe it is because you cannot so you want to discredit the messenger.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

minibdr said:


> Thats my point loser you at best might be able to handle a balst but doing real electrical work you cannot. You work in a building that was built for you. I build them and yet you talk here as if you are a journyman. Well you are maintaining what the rest of us create. As Archie Bunker would say styfle yourself dingbat.


. Is this a joke?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I have no doubt Bob is a good electrician...

And the majority of people in his state believe that if a contractor is signatory, then men who are not members of the club have no right to work for the contractor. Now, I used to bag groceries at a supermarket, and I had to pay some dues to the UFCW. Big deal, it made sure the full-time clerks had decent health benefits and at least a measly pension, without their collective might, there would have been neither.

It is a club, but the kind of club it is, and the kind of club Bob thinks it is, are two different things entirely. To a member, it feels like joining the AAA. To outsiders, they've been led to believe its Cosa Nostra. The AAA has a few bad members, I'm sure. They've probably got a few drunk drivers on the rolls, but the majority are good, hard-working folk.

Bob, you should tell your employer that you deserve the equivalent hourly package of a foreman in your local. He's gonna laugh in your face


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

minibdr said:


> bob you are such a loser. First off you aren`t even an electrician so why are you here other then to stir sht? Go off in your underpaid under skilled undereducated underneth real men world and screw in a lightbulb maintenance man and leave the working electricians alone.


YOU ARE A FREAKING IDIOT, not that Bob needs me standing up for him, BUT I have been associated with Bob through various forums over several years and based on his knowledge of the NEC, electrical installations and management , I'd have to say YOU ARE A FREAKING IDIOT.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Bob,
> 
> What is a "service tech"?
> Do you work on cars??:


A service tech is an electrician that makes 3-5 dollars over scale, above union vacation and holidays and KNOWS what he is doing.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Minibdr:

I have checked your post and once again a load mouth loser that seems to be able to post in labor threads BUT has not contributed anything in ANY electrical related threads. Could it be you are the typical rabble rouser with little knowledge of the trade but the ability to skate through projects while your brothers have to cover for your fat mouth and lack of knowledge.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

brian john said:


> not that Bob needs me standing up for him,


Maybe I do not _need_ it but I will happily take it. 

Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Gee... RATS are only good for installing light bulbs [URL="http://www.mysmiley.net/free-mad-smileys.php"][/URL]


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Are there any open shop guys from Philly on here who can answer Frasbee's question?


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Rudeboy said:


> Are there any open shop guys from Philly on here who can answer Frasbee's question?


You are right, you are friggin stylish.:jester: :laughing:

#*181*


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I haven't seen the words "open shop" and "philly" in the same sentence a whole lot, but I don't work up there. Do they have open shops in philly ?


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## Zog (Apr 15, 2009)

brian john said:


> YOU ARE A FREAKING IDIOT, not that Bob needs me standing up for him, BUT I have been associated with Bob through various forums over several years and based on his knowledge of the NEC, electrical installations and management , I'd have to say YOU ARE A FREAKING IDIOT.


As I was reading through this thread I wa about to make a comment until I saw this one, so I will keep mine short. 

Ditto.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I haven't seen the words "open shop" and "philly" in the same sentence a whole lot, but I don't work up there. Do they have open shops in philly ?


I did a little research, and I found an interesting article from Jan 2008 about the battle between union/nonunion contractors in Philly.
heres the link:
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_last_union_town/


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> You are right, you are friggin stylish.:jester: :laughing:
> 
> #*181*


Well, that is why I wear that shirt.
:thumbup:


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

You losers are preety tough and I have seen bobs uhem work. He sucks.Sh ort cuts.Lose ends.Typical do what he`s told no matter for the code all for a buck just like the idiots that back him. Thats why he can`t keep a job. Hey brian john is your middle name neil so you guys are neil and bob?


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Internet bad boy , what is your name? At least we will know what d-bag is doing the bashing.


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

Hey hack nice name.Is that what you do also.You guys kill me.This great industry is so screwed because of uneducated workers such as the afore mentioned.Listen I just don`t get the I`m a rat I`m a hack I`m a maintenance worker but I`m the man bs pat yourselves on the back fudgepacking fraternity you guys have going on here but hey to each his own. Keep the conditions down guys your doing a great job.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Do they call you Mini cause your hung like a mouse? :laughing:


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

minibdr said:


> You losers are preety tough and I have seen bobs uhem work. He sucks.Sh ort cuts.Lose ends.Typical do what he`s told no matter for the code all for a buck just like the idiots that back him. Thats why he can`t keep a job. Hey brian john is your middle name neil so you guys are neil and bob?





minibdr said:


> Hey hack nice name.Is that what you do also.You guys kill me.This great industry is so screwed because of uneducated workers such as the afore mentioned.Listen I just don`t get the I`m a rat I`m a hack I`m a maintenance worker but I`m the man bs pat yourselves on the back fudgepacking fraternity you guys have going on here but hey to each his own. Keep the conditions down guys your doing a great job.



Classic. :laughing:


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

minibdr said:


> Hey hack nice name.Is that what you do also.You guys kill me.This great industry is so screwed because of uneducated workers such as the afore mentioned.Listen I just don`t get the I`m a rat I`m a hack I`m a maintenance worker but I`m the man bs pat yourselves on the back fudgepacking fraternity you guys have going on here but hey to each his own. Keep the conditions down guys your doing a great job.


Uneducated worker-hardly. I promise I have more education than YOU.:laughing:.


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I did a little research, and I found an interesting article from Jan 2008 about the battle between union/nonunion contractors in Philly.
> heres the link:
> http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_last_union_town/


Thanks for that link. Good one, i was looking for a little of that.
:thumbsup:


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## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

(fudgepacking fraternity)


nice.
:laughing:


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## EBFD6 (Aug 17, 2008)

I have nothing of substance to add here, other than to say this thread is awesome! I haven't laughed this hard in a while, thanks.



Ohh, and minibdr, you are a douch!

Carry on!


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

minibdr said:


> Hey hack nice name.Is that what you do also.You guys kill me.This great industry is so screwed because of uneducated workers such as the afore mentioned.Listen I just don`t get the I`m a rat I`m a hack I`m a maintenance worker but I`m the man bs pat yourselves on the back fudgepacking fraternity you guys have going on here but hey to each his own. Keep the conditions down guys your doing a great job.


Intelligent come back.

You are what the IBEW hates, small minded, apparently know nothing, open shop bashing and typically a slacker hiding behind the IBEW for covering your butt, while the intelligent union members are courting open shop men trying to show them the way. As the union continues to lose market share men like you do more harm than good.

And my statement about your limited abilities stand, show us you know something except small minded ranting.


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## rlc3854 (Dec 30, 2007)

Just other loud mouth fudgepacking bench warming installer waiting in line for some federal stimlus to his A-Hole.


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## muck (Jun 30, 2008)

The majority of the bashing I see, is from the union side. This seems about usual. As union workers who run their mouths about other peoples education and qualifications are showing their ignorance. Hence, their lack of education. Some member of 98 in Philly are a joke. We once had to hire them for a franchise store we were under contract to - took us a week and a half to straighten out the connection - almost all were loose - 2 burned up terminal blocks on 2 separate pieces of equipment - Would never have them do any work for us again. Plus they move at a snails pace.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

The thing about guys like mindbdr is you give them an inch of rope to hang themselves and they take a mile. :thumbsup:


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

minibdr said:


> Hey hack nice name.Is that what you do also.You guys kill me.This great industry is so screwed because of uneducated workers such as the afore mentioned.Listen I just don`t get the I`m a rat I`m a hack I`m a maintenance worker but I`m the man bs pat yourselves on the back fudgepacking fraternity you guys have going on here but hey to each his own. Keep the conditions down guys your doing a great job.


Uneducated workers, huh? Interesting.....

If that's the approach you are going to take, can you explain why you can't form comprehensible, grammatically correct sentences?


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## robnj772 (Jan 15, 2008)

minibdr said:


> Hey hack nice name.Is that what you do also.You guys kill me.This great industry is so screwed because of uneducated workers such as the afore mentioned.Listen I just don`t get the I`m a rat I`m a hack I`m a maintenance worker but I`m the man bs pat yourselves on the back fudgepacking fraternity you guys have going on here but hey to each his own. Keep the conditions down guys your doing a great job.


 
I see the biggest A-hole union slug troll of 2009 has resurfaced again. :laughing:

What is wrong? I guess the hall finally put you back to work,then they realized your an uneducated moron and sent you back to the bench?

Now your all mad again so decided to come back in here and take it out on the guys that can actually hold jobs!

It is not us rats fault your a failure you need to take that one up with your parents.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Rudeboy said:


> Are there any open shop guys from Philly on here who can answer Frasbee's question?


That would've been ideal, just to get an idea. I've researched a few open shop electrical contractors in Philadelphia, but I'm 5 months out from my lease being up so it's a tad too early to start contacting for a job...then again maybe it wouldn't hurt to throw them a resume.

I won't deny that open shop for me would be ideal, to be discredited 2 full years of OJT would be a shame, so I'm going to be weighing my options up until the last second.

Interesting article Wildleg, I'll have to read up on it after work.


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## edward (Feb 11, 2009)

let me know how your search goes frasbee, especially if you end up working in philly. sounds like we are in the same boat, lowly apprentices looking for steady work in these unsteady times, best of luck to you.

and about all this union vs non-union garbage. just be happy you guys are working. i have worked non union for about four years now, am currently laid off, i learned a lot about electrical installation and how to be efficient. plus i was able to work for a vew different contractors which really helped me see just how much variety there is in this trade. no complaints about open shops.

i tried to join the union in my area, did really well on my test and interview, the business manager said they would use me in a heartbeat but they don't have any work right now. i know a few union electricians that work in my church and volunteer their services there. great guys, very knowledgeable, and they really recommend the apprenticeship program. they will admit there are arguments for both sides of the union vs non union arguement. but in the end everyone has to make their own decision about what is right for their circumstances and we should just leave it at that. this thread is about a guy looking for work, lets just leave it at that and talk about politics in a thread where it is wanted.


----------



## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

There you guys go again about grammer and or puncuation.Let me let you in on something.That doesn`t make an electrician as you know because you couldn`t hold my pliers.Guys get it straight your the minors.The bullpen the backups,the amatures.Come work with a pro a while then tell me if I was right or not.Hey bob black and white make a light loser.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

minibdr said:


> There you guys go again about grammer and or puncuation.Let me let you in on something.That doesn`t make an electrician as you know because you couldn`t hold my pliers.Guys get it straight your the minors.The bullpen the backups,the amatures.Come work with a pro a while then tell me if I was right or not.Hey bob black and white make a light loser.



You have said nothing on this forum that leads me to believe you are any kind of electrician. 

Can you show us a post where your electrical skills shine?


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> That would've been ideal, just to get an idea. I've researched a few open shop electrical contractors in Philadelphia, but I'm 5 months out from my lease being up so it's a tad too early to start contacting for a job...then again maybe it wouldn't hurt to throw them a resume.
> 
> I won't deny that open shop for me would be ideal, to be discredited 2 full years of OJT would be a shame, so I'm going to be weighing my options up until the last second.
> 
> Interesting article Wildleg, I'll have to read up on it after work.


Yes an open shop might be your best bet right now in your mind... but I bet if you presented yourself as someone who came to New Orleans to help out and accentuate some of your volunteer work along with your ABC classroom transcripts you could get into the union. Someone said it is part of the agreement to work you out of the gate as a cubbie in Phili so.... Your prevailing wage work is gonna help also with the union. I don't know why but they put an emphasis on how your doing in comparison with them. I would, ifn I were you try to get into the Hall in philly. Also they may give you an opprotunity to show them your pipe bendin skills ... this will help you out also.


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## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

edward said:


> let me know how your search goes frasbee, especially if you end up working in philly. sounds like we are in the same boat, lowly apprentices looking for steady work in these unsteady times, best of luck to you.
> 
> and about all this union vs non-union garbage. just be happy you guys are working. i have worked non union for about four years now, am currently laid off, i learned a lot about electrical installation and how to be efficient. plus i was able to work for a vew different contractors which really helped me see just how much variety there is in this trade.  no complaints about open shops.
> 
> i tried to join the union in my area, did really well on my test and interview, the business manager said they would use me in a heartbeat but they don't have any work right now. i know a few union electricians that work in my church and volunteer their services there. great guys, very knowledgeable, and they really recommend the apprenticeship program. they will admit there are arguments for both sides of the union vs non union arguement. but in the end everyone has to make their own decision about what is right for their circumstances and we should just leave it at that. this thread is about a guy looking for work, lets just leave it at that and talk about politics in a thread where it is wanted.



Well said, good and bad on both sides of the fence.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

minibdr said:


> There you guys go again about grammer and or puncuation.Let me let you in on something.That doesn`t make an electrician as you know because you couldn`t hold my pliers.Guys get it straight your the minors.The bullpen the backups,the amatures.Come work with a pro a while then tell me if I was right or not.Hey bob black and white make a light loser.


Troll alert! Troll alert!


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## Grimlock (Aug 4, 2009)

When is minibdr going to get banned already?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

One of the better post regarding this subject in a LONG while.



edward said:


> let me know how your search goes frasbee, especially if you end up working in philly. sounds like we are in the same boat, lowly apprentices looking for steady work in these unsteady times, best of luck to you.
> 
> and about all this union vs non-union garbage. just be happy you guys are working. i have worked non union for about four years now, am currently laid off, i learned a lot about electrical installation and how to be efficient. plus i was able to work for a vew different contractors which really helped me see just how much variety there is in this trade. no complaints about open shops.
> 
> i tried to join the union in my area, did really well on my test and interview, the business manager said they would use me in a heartbeat but they don't have any work right now. i know a few union electricians that work in my church and volunteer their services there. great guys, very knowledgeable, and they really recommend the apprenticeship program. they will admit there are arguments for both sides of the union vs non union arguement. but in the end everyone has to make their own decision about what is right for their circumstances and we should just leave it at that. this thread is about a guy looking for work, lets just leave it at that and talk about politics in a thread where it is wanted.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> You have said nothing on this forum that leads me to believe you are any kind of electrician.
> 
> Can you show us a post where your electrical skills shine?


 
Based on what I have read, this guy (if he is a guy), is a typical rabble rouser, KNOWS little or nothing about the trade, typically has 4 -10 jobs a year and stirs trouble up at every job. He has yet to add anything positive to this forum and does the same at work.

When he has posted something positive regarding the NEC or the trade I might think he is something more than a salt.


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## minibdr (Nov 11, 2009)

Ban the man that doesn`t share your opion. That is a shame.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

minibdr said:


> Ban the man that doesn`t share your opion. That is a shame.



I still find it amusing that you make fun of people for supposedly being uneducated while you can't even string a sentence together. That's pretty hypocritical, don't you think?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> I still find it amusing that you make fun of people for supposedly being uneducated while you can't even string a sentence together. That's pretty hypocritical, don't you think?


You need a brain to think.. all Minni has is a big, foul mouth


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

minibdr said:


> Ban the man that doesn`t share your opion. That is a shame.


 
Mini:

If I was going to be mean I would say Mini B-D-R stands for a Small BRAIN, Small **** and little self RESPECT. But I'll give you the benefit of a doubt, show us you know a little something about the subject this forum was designed for, ELECTRICAL PROFESIONALS.


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## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Guys, the solution is pretty easy. Just simply reply with :sleep1: every time he posts.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Peter D said:


> Guys, the solution is pretty easy. Just simply reply with :sleep1: every time he posts.


:sleep1:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> :sleep1:


 :laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Guys, the solution is pretty easy. Just simply reply with :sleep1: every time he posts.


It never worked on you.. why should it work on him? 






I know :sleep1:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I do not know how to do that and what are SMILIES and why are they called that?


:sleep1:


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Are there any open shop guys from Philly on here who can answer Frasbee's question?


I have no idea what that other guy is takling about. 

My brother-in-law is in 98.

He drives for 1-1-/2 hours a day, one way. Traffic in the city blows. Parking blows. You have to car pool for most big work.


Last time I heard, 98 had 400 on the bench waiting. You'd be 401.

Everything else he said about non-union shops is non-sense.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Well, I just called Local 98...for one, I'd have to be there in person to apply, so I would have to leave sooner than my lease would end which is May. That's a simple technicality that I could work out.

However, and I quote: "We may not even be doing it this year [accepting apprenticeship applications] because there's so much unemployment. So you'd just have to wait until April and see."

That was a nice reality check.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> I have no idea what that other guy is takling about.
> 
> My brother-in-law is in 98.
> 
> ...



By the other guy are you referring to me?If your brother in law drives an hour and a half each way then he lives WAY outside the jurisdiction.I live in N.E Philly and even when driving in town were the traffic blows I never had to drive more then half hour to forty five minutes each way.Yae car pooling makes things a little easier if a bunch of guys that live in the same neighborhood are working together but its not necessary.I drive a full size pick up and have never had a problem finding parking in the city,finding the cheapest lot is the real challenge.

And what I said about working non union isn't non-sense,you will travel for work.Here's some of the places that I had to drive to for work when I was non-union,all at least 50 miles from house.(each way),Roselle NJ,Egg harbor township NJ,Forked river NJ,Allentown PA,Pottstown PA,Pottsville PA,Limerick PA,Chaddsford PA,Skippack PA,and a bunch of other places that were far as hell.

Maybe others from Philadelphia that work open shop have different experiences but I still have a couple a friends that work non-union and they are still putting on the miles.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Well, I just called Local 98...for one, I'd have to be there in person to apply, so I would have to leave sooner than my lease would end which is May. That's a simple technicality that I could work out.
> 
> However, and I quote: "We may not even be doing it this year [accepting apprenticeship applications] because there's so much unemployment. So you'd just have to wait until April and see."
> 
> That was a nice reality check.


Frasbee,that's the first I heard about that.I made an inquiry about it,and was told they maybe considering taking a limited number of new appr's.But there's been rumors floating around about not taking any at all,there only rumors at this time.


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## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> However, and I quote: "We may not even be doing it this year [accepting apprenticeship applications] because there's so much unemployment. So you'd just have to wait until April and see."
> 
> That was a nice reality check.


don't you have a job for a while still... Your not trimming out that school yet are you? .... Looking on the job boards this morning and found a total of about 30 jobs for electricians that had been posted in the last 30 days for Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana... this market sucks.... Hold on to your job as long as you can.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

wildleg said:


> I did a little research, and I found an interesting article from Jan 2008 about the battle between union/nonunion contractors in Philly.
> heres the link:
> http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_last_union_town/


The article is clearly anti-union but kind of insinuates that non-union types are desperate minorities eager to work for cheap wages and benefits that are not sustainable in Philly.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

jrannis said:


> The article is clearly anti-union but kind of insinuates that non-union types are desperate minorities eager to work for cheap wages and benefits that are not sustainable in Philly.



That article is old.The Mayor was mad that the building trades wouldn't lower the testing standards to allow for more"ex-convicts and troubled city youth"to be in the apprentice programs,so he tried to bully the building trades by saying that there"will be no unions in the city"if we didn't do what he said.

In the end nothing came of it and the 860 million dollar expansion of the convention center was still approved with union exclusive language in the contract.It's probably the largest job going on right now in the city.

This Mayor is a clown when it comes to getting project's going.You should see the fiasco he's allowed to go on with the casino's being built here and the dredging of the Delaware river to open our water front up for development.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> That article is old.The Mayor was mad that the building trades wouldn't lower the testing standards to allow for more"ex-convicts and troubled city youth"to be in the apprentice programs,so he tried to bully the building trades by saying that there"will be no unions in the city"if we didn't do what he said.


But there is no bias spin on you're post at all. :laughing:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> But there is no bias spin on you're post at all. :laughing:



I don't really know what spin I put on it,that's the way it went down.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Comcast Center
Residences at the Ritz..
The St. James
The Murano
Cira Centre
The Hub on Chestnut

Colket Translational Research Building 

The Western Union Building 
Anne & Jerome Fisher Translational Research Center 
3711 Market Street
The Tivoli

113 North Bread Street 
Domus
3701 Market Street 
GlaxoSmithKline Annex
L'Eau Condominiums
The Rialto
22 South Front Street
Caneris Residence Hall
Citizens Bank Park
Lincoln Financial Field


Since that article claims to think that the unions hold "Philadelphia financially hostage",well I'll put another "bias spin on it".
Above is a SMALL list of projects that were built 100% union in Philly in the last 10 years and I didn't even list all the university and hospital work we have.
Not to mention all the refinery work,retail,office fit out and pharmaceuticals,Plus a good amount of the city's public high schools have been renovated or rebuilt in the past few years,they go union also.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Comcast Center
> Residences at the Ritz..
> The St. James
> The Murano
> ...


I am missing you're point, the fact that you have a list of projects that the union has done does not refute anything.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

nolabama said:


> don't you have a job for a while still... Your not trimming out that school yet are you? .... Looking on the job boards this morning and found a total of about 30 jobs for electricians that had been posted in the last 30 days for Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana... this market sucks.... Hold on to your job as long as you can.


We're pulling wire all over the building at the moment.

$hit, we're still runnin' 4'' pipe in some areas, and trying to put up wire racks above the ceiling grid in others.  It's a bit of a mess to say the least.

Yes, I still have a good job in the mean time, I just _really_ wanted to get out of this city by the time my lease was up. I just didn't realize how bad other places may still have been affected by this recession. I'll just have to find out when I'm closer to May.

Damn this economy.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> We're pulling wire all over the building at the moment.
> 
> $hit, we're still runnin' 4'' pipe in some areas, and trying to put up wire racks above the ceiling grid in others.  It's a bit of a mess to say the least.
> 
> ...


Who do you work for? If you don't want to answer , thats cool.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> We're pulling wire all over the building at the moment.
> 
> $hit, we're still runnin' 4'' pipe in some areas, and trying to put up wire racks above the ceiling grid in others.  It's a bit of a mess to say the least.
> 
> ...



Frasbee good luck with what ever path you take.I would stay put until you are certain that you have a gig lined up,union or not.I to am a graduate of Orleans Tech,when I went they had job placement maybe try giving them a call and see if they can help you out.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> I to am a graduate of Orleans Tech,when I went they had job placement maybe try giving them a call and see if they can help you out.


I had thought about that the other day.

It's funny, when I went there, I kinda assumed that whatever trade I went into, would be with the Union, simply because I didn't imagine there was any other way. Boy was I naive!

That's one of the things I miss about Philadelphia, is having that network of people and organizations, and being more familiar with the city.

Although, I've been developing a whole other separate network down here as well.

It's not that I couldn't make it without having a job lined up, since I could stay with my dad, but what's making it difficult is my g/f would need a job as well, and we'd like to move in with an old friend of mine, so it's just a lot of planning and logistics that need to be figured out.

Thanks for the advice though, it's odd to know so little about the trade I've been working in for the past 2 years in a city I lived in for 20.


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## BuzzKill (Oct 27, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> I went to Orleans Technical Institute in the NE for building maintenance, but I've never worked any electrical except for here in New Orleans.
> 
> Now that me and the g/f are trying to get the hell out of this bowl, we're seriously considering my old stomping grounds.
> 
> ...


You are welcome hee in ATL.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

So I just contacted Associated Builders and Contractors of SEPA and the man I spoke to painted a similar picture as everyone else. Hirings here and there, but it's still pretty slim. After asking of my time in the trade, he seemed to take a more optimistic tone in terms of finding an employer and gave me his cell phone to call him when I knew for sure I was moving up to that area so I could get all my transcripts processed quickly.

I've gathered a few phone numbers and e-mail addresses to cold call a few open shops as well, which I'll start working on as the weeks go on.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

So you are pretty much leaving the NO?


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

slickvic277 said:


> That article is old.The Mayor was mad that the building trades wouldn't lower the testing standards to allow for more"ex-convicts and troubled city youth"to be in the apprentice programs,so he tried to bully the building trades by saying that there"will be no unions in the city"if we didn't do what he said.
> 
> In the end nothing came of it and the 860 million dollar expansion of the convention center was still approved with union exclusive language in the contract.It's probably the largest job going on right now in the city.
> 
> This Mayor is a clown when it comes to getting project's going.You should see the fiasco he's allowed to go on with the casino's being built here and the dredging of the Delaware river to open our water front up for development.


Is he a clown because he wants fair bidding on taxpayer financed projects?

We had a similar issue here with a major bridge with financing between Virginia and Maryland. Maryland wanted exclusive closed shops Virginia wanted the bidding open to all shops. In the end Virginia agreed to Maryland’s use of union shops, if Maryland would pay the difference between the qualified bid and the qualified union bid. The bids went out to everyone. I never did follow up to see if the project was union or open shop.

I am all for union getting any and all government projects IF they bid fairly against all qualified contractors.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

NolaTigaBait said:


> So you are pretty much leaving the NO?


I have to plan like I am, otherwise it'll just become too convenient to stay.

Though, I find this city to be anything but convenient.

Actually, I take that back, it got up to what, almost 70 today?

That's pretty damn convenient for January.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

brian john said:


> Is he a clown because he wants fair bidding on taxpayer financed projects?




nah, he's a clown cause he dresses like this:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I have to plan like I am, otherwise it'll just become too convenient to stay.
> 
> Though, I find this city to be anything but convenient.
> 
> ...


But freaking June, July and August is GAWD AWFUL.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

brian john said:


> But freaking June, July and August is GAWD AWFUL.


:laughing: Yep.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> Is he a clown because he wants fair bidding on taxpayer financed projects?
> 
> We had a similar issue here with a major bridge with financing between Virginia and Maryland. Maryland wanted exclusive closed shops Virginia wanted the bidding open to all shops. In the end Virginia agreed to Maryland’s use of union shops, if Maryland would pay the difference between the qualified bid and the qualified union bid. The bids went out to everyone. I never did follow up to see if the project was union or open shop.
> 
> I am all for union getting any and all government projects IF they bid fairly against all qualified contractors.




No,He's a "clown" because of his lack of business sense.Quite a few Jobs and construction projects have been delayed or canceled because of his lack of negotiating skills.Believe me,he didn't have the "tax payer's" best interest in mind,he had a beef with the building trades.We did not back him for mayor(and yes he is a democrat)His first "job initiative" was to demand that the unions open there books to determine if there was enough minority's in the building trades,then he demanded that we lower the qualifications(like high school diploma) for apprenticeship applications to give "inner city youth and ex-con's"a fair chance at a job.

When the unions denied his demands he threatened that "there will be no unions working at the convention center".That didn't go over well with city council.So a deal was made the job would go union but with minority contractors.

I'll give an example of a deal he turned into a mess,the casino projects.
They built casino's in Pittsburgh and created 1000's of jobs and tax brakes for the city.Here in Philadelphia there was road block after road block for witch he was a big part of(he rather build bike trails and plant tree's)So now long story short,the casino's are getting built(100% union)and are costing even more money then originally thought,it was and still is a real mess,for witch he was more of a problem rather then a solution.He got his ass handed to him in the septa strike negotiations and he got his ass handed to him in the police negotiations.(I'm pro union but some of the things the police won are crazy)

This current mayor has some good points but economic growth and job creation isn't one of them.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

One can only hope the voters note this and take action if they agree he is worthless.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

brian john said:


> One can only hope the voters note this and take action if they agree he is worthless.



The city is hurtin' for money and some of his solutions(that were shot down)were to close libraries,close public pools and rec centers,cut police and fire fighter services,tax trash pick up and raise the property tax.All things that target the middle class.
We already have one of the highest tax base in the country and I believe we are the only city with a city wage tax(not a 100% sure).I hope the working tax payers remember this when the next elections come up.
But sadly I think were doomed to have him another term.The city is around 40% black and they always vote for there own no matter how bad he is,a lot of white people in the city sit around and bitch about everything but not to many get up off there ass to go out and vote.Although the mayor has pissed a whole lot of people off in the city so we'll have to see what happens down the road.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> But sadly I think were doomed to have him another term.The city is around 40% black and they always vote for there own no matter how bad he is


You think that's bad? New Orleans tried to vote back in a black democratic congressman *after* he was caught with money in his freezer and indicted for corruption.

He still got a large majority of the vote.

Fortunately there was enough whites and transplants in the city to help get a little Vietnamese republican the seat instead.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> You think that's bad? New Orleans tried to vote back in a black democratic congressman *after* he was caught with money in his freezer and indicted for corruption.
> 
> He still got a large majority of the vote.
> 
> Fortunately there was enough whites and transplants in the city to help get a little Vietnamese republican the seat instead.


No, he got re-elected after that. It took a second election after he got caught to get him out. Just looked it up. He won in '06 and in '08 he got defeated by a 49% to 46% margin. There aren't too many intelligent people in New Orleans.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> You think that's bad? New Orleans tried to vote back in a black democratic congressman *after* he was caught with money in his freezer and indicted for corruption.
> 
> He still got a large majority of the vote.
> 
> Fortunately there was enough whites and transplants in the city to help get a little Vietnamese republican the seat instead.



No,our current mayor is a saint compared to the last guy,John street.Although he was pro union and brought a lot of work to the city that was about it.City services suffered,the murder rate sky rocketed,city hall scandals almost daily,his brother refused to pay taxes,all types of good stuff.Oh yae,he got a second term.If there wasn't laws against it he still be the mayor!When he got into office he declared "The brotha's and sista's are runnin the city now".Yae he said it!Just google it.


----------



## Loose Neutral (Jun 3, 2009)

Remember Mayor Marion Barry From D.C. Quote " I'm a crack head, he's a crack head, he gots my vote".


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Loose Neutral said:


> Remember Mayor Marion Barry From D.C. Quote " I'm a crack head, he's a crack head, he gots my vote".


"That bitch set me up"

New Orleans is OK to visit, after spending some time there, there is NO WAY IN HELL I WOULD LIVE THERE, much raise a family there.


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## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

brian john said:


> "That bitch set me up"
> 
> New Orleans is OK to visit, after spending some time there, there is NO WAY IN HELL I WOULD LIVE THERE, much raise a family there.


Don't let the 300+ murders a year deter you. The smart people live in Metairie:thumbsup:


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Don't let the 300+ murders a year deter you. The smart people live in Metairie:thumbsup:


Ha! that's an average year for us,not to mention I believe we have had more cops shot/killed then any other city over the past decade.Although I must give credit were credit is do.The new police chief is doing a good job, all the major crime stats are way down including the murder numbers in 2009.We will see what 2010 brings.
I love my city but we do have some problems...


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

slickvic277 said:


> *Ha! that's an average year for us,*not to mention I believe we have had more cops shot/killed then any other city over the past decade.Although I must give credit were credit is do.The new police chief is doing a good job, all the major crime stats are way down including the murder numbers in 2009.We will see what 2010 brings.
> I love my city but we do have some problems...


Yes, but consider Philly is about 3-4 times larger than New Orleans. :blink:

Anyway, I remember when Street was more interested in standing in line to buy an iphone when they launched than tending to his duties.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Slick, you're pretty good at spinning crap.

I'll give you that.


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## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

Dnkldorf said:


> Slick, you're pretty good at spinning crap.
> 
> I'll give you that.


Thanks I guess.What did I spin?If I was inaccurate please correct me.


----------



## david wise (Feb 17, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Are there any open shop guys from Philly on here who can answer Frasbee's question?


 Hey Fras, I've been an electrician in Philly for over 20 years. I've worked in union shops(back in the 80's) and non-union shops. I can only give you my point of view, and I would say to you that going thru 98's apprentiship program is thee best thing you can do for yourself. This is a hugh city, as you know, and the union doesn't control ALL of the jobs so even if your not accepted right away you can still make a good living. The best thing is after your prepared enough you should take your jouneymans test. Get that liscense. Good luck man and let us know what happens. GO PHILS:clap:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> That's affirmative, she is free to go work at Wal-Mart.
> She is also free, once of age, to go dance for money.
> 
> It's a free country Bob, so quit crying about all the good companies you can't work for, because they hire men through an exclusive agreement.
> ...


Wait if a owner violates the law damn him, if the union violates the law it is ok.

Time and time again you show a bias that has no logic in the real world, or maybe it does to you?


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## Mike_586 (Mar 24, 2009)

brian john said:


> Wait if a owner violates the law damn him, if the union violates the law it is ok.
> 
> Time and time again you show a bias that has no logic in the real world, or maybe it does to you?


All saw is a little clip and some layman's opinions of the law and what he thinks is right. Weather the union is violating the law or not will be decided in the courts.

I don't know what the laws are like in that state, or if the union laws in the US are a federal thing and the same across the country or what side is right. But all I see is someone that wants nothing to do with unions, but wants a union job with all the pay and benefits that go with it.

There seems to be a little disconnect from reality somewhere along the lines. Its kinda like wanting to be a lawyer and having nothing to do with the Bar Association or wanting to be a cab driver without a driver's license.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

brian john said:


> Time and time again you show a bias that has no logic in the real world, or maybe it does to you?


No, that was from experience.

You see, I was a bagger at a UFCW grocery store when I was in high school. When a new guy came on board who did not want to join the union after sixty days, or whatever the probationary period was, they smoked him. To stay employed at the grocery store, the man had to sign-on with the UFCW local, but declined, so the store said, 'see-yah later.' His gripe was that he didn't want give money to the baby-killing democrats, whatever, that money made sure he got good benefits and wages, even as a part-time Milk stocker.


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## Forgery (Mar 6, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> No, that was from experience.
> 
> You see, I was a bagger at a UFCW grocery store when I was in high school. When a new guy came on board who did not want to join the union after sixty days, or whatever the probationary period was, they smoked him. To stay employed at the grocery store, the man had to sign-on with the UFCW local, but declined, so the store said, 'see-yah later.' His gripe was that he didn't want give money to the baby-killing democrats, whatever, that money made sure he got good benefits and wages, even as a part-time Milk stocker.


Yet as a part time milk stocker, he got NO benefits and minimum wage. I was in that same position when I was a kid, and every week I asked why I was giving $5 to the UFCW when they didn't give me a thing. No one, and I mean NO ONE had an answer.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> No, that was from experience.
> 
> You see, I was a bagger at a UFCW grocery store when I was in high school. When a new guy came on board who did not want to join the union after sixty days, or whatever the probationary period was, they smoked him. To stay employed at the grocery store, the man had to sign-on with the UFCW local, but declined, so the store said, 'see-yah later.' His gripe was that he didn't want give money to the baby-killing democrats, whatever, that money made sure he got good benefits and wages, even as a part-time Milk stocker.


If and I do not know the law here, the law says the girl does not have to join then why should she have to join?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

It is probably because you are in a right-to-work state.

Once the union represents the workers at a business, all hands have to join or go elsewhere. 

It does not work that way in state and federal jobs, as far as I know they are exempt from being required to join.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Forgery said:


> No one, and I mean NO ONE had an answer.


The answer is, we got time-and-a-half on saturday, and double-time on Sunday. There yah go.


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## Forgery (Mar 6, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> The answer is, we got time-and-a-half on saturday, and double-time on Sunday. There yah go.


We didn't, so I stand by what I said, no answer.


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## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

miller_elex said:


> Once the union represents the workers at a business, all hands have to join or go elsewhere.


That is illegal.


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## Forgery (Mar 6, 2010)

Bob Badger said:


> That is illegal.


In what way???


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