# First post, meat of why I joined



## The Raven (Jan 23, 2021)

First off, hey all! Happy there is a place I can ask this stuff. 

So I graduated from a tech HS in 1998 in an electrical program. Worked 2 years until the bosses wife asked me why I was not going to college...4 year degree $80k in student debt later here I am. 

It wasn't like pulling teeth though. I was tired of making $8hr pulling romex through mouse crap and insulation in a 130f degree attic. Freezing my fingers off in the winter pulling cable and digging ditches for underground cable. The work royally sucked. 

Over the years I still did the work. Wired my own house, a couple houses my parents fixed up. Friends needed help, I wired for them. PV installs etc etc. Always under the radar though. 

So here I am at 40, Thinking about getting back into the field but wondering if the job quality has improved or are the apprentices still the guys doing the grunt work for low pay? 

Also, Licensing and all that. In 98 MA did not req apprentice licenses. Moved to ME and they did, never bothered. In VT now and I don't believe you need one. 

So....look forward to your thoughts


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

The Raven said:


> First off, hey all! Happy there is a place I can ask this stuff.
> 
> So I graduated from a tech HS in 1998 in an electrical program. Worked 2 years until the bosses wife asked me why I was not going to college...4 year degree $80k in student debt later here I am.
> 
> ...


You have a bad attitude. Of course an apprentice does grunt work. That’s what apprentices do. And the grunt work doesn’t stop when you’re licensed. Yesterday, I dragged a big ugly ladder around all kinds of junk to hang pipe and I’m a Master.

Low pay? I dunno, I guess it depends on where you live but you accumulated $20K a year in debt going to school. Apprentices earn while they learn. Do the math.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

The Raven said:


> It wasn't like pulling teeth though. I was tired of making $8hr pulling romex through mouse crap and insulation in a 130f degree attic. Freezing my fingers off in the winter pulling cable and digging ditches for underground cable. The work royally sucked.
> 
> So here I am at 40, Thinking about getting back into the field but wondering if the job quality has improved or are the apprentices still the guys doing the grunt work for low pay?
> 
> So....look forward to your thoughts


Sorry to tell you but apprentices still have to learn and that means from the ground up.
Mice still crap, attics still get hot, weather still gets freezing.
While tools have helped make work more efficient, manual labour is still required.

Apprentices are cheaper than a Journeyman, so guess who gets to do the grunt work jobs?

So if those conditions were the main reason why you left in the first place, you wont be happy coming back.


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## The Raven (Jan 23, 2021)

99cents said:


> You have a bad attitude. Of course an apprentice does grunt work. That’s what apprentices do. And the grunt work doesn’t stop when you’re licensed. Yesterday, I dragged a big ugly ladder around all kinds of junk to hang pipe and I’m a Master.
> 
> Low pay? I dunno, I guess it depends on where you live but you accumulated $20K a year in debt going to school. Apprentices earn while they learn. Do the math.


My final year I spent grinding welds as the company I worked for did mechanical as well. Turned me away from enjoying the work and made me rather negative towards the work. Its why for the past 20years I have done everything but. Am hoping that it was the company, not the field. 

Currently looking at my options to find work and do see electrical apprentice opportunities in my area. Have about 3000hrs but all undocumented. Just trying to get a feel for what the starting wages are and if it's worth the effort.


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## ohm it hertz (Dec 2, 2020)

I earned $12/hr while I apprenticed. The boss even bought me a tool bag and gifted me a generous sum of money at Christmas. This was after showing up for work on time, learning the trade, making and fixing mistakes, ordering materials, on top of the scorching hot attic days pulling cat5, or the freezing winter mornings gutting entire office buildings.

Starting over doesn't take an eternity and you get paid to learn the trade as you go. But you are definitely, definitely going to be in your 40s doing the grunt work. Think of what you'll be able to do before your 50th birthday after you pass examinations and start your own business.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

The owner encouraging you to go to college is telling: that means that company doesn't doesn't see a future for you there. That's not a great company. 

An apprentice can have a good attitude when there's a reward for the period of grunt work. If the reward is the promise of more grunt work and a $0.25 raise every so often, well, there's nothing great about endless grunt work for low pay. 

There trades have huge pay disparities for similar jobs. Look at what the union locals in your area are paying in wages and benefits, that's probably top of the mark. If you can get in, or get in with one of the very few non-union companies that pay as well, you're looking at a few lean years to get to that.


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## wcord (Jan 23, 2011)

99cents said:


> Yesterday, I dragged a big ugly ladder around all kinds of junk to hang pipe and I’m a Master.


Either hire an apprentice to haul that ladder.
Or stick a blue Bosch sticker on the ladder to pretty it up. and it wont be so bad to lug around lol

And as to labour, I too have been in the trench with the apprentices to help dig or pull 500mcm teck. The work will get done one way or another


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

The Raven said:


> My final year I spent grinding welds as the company I worked for did mechanical as well. Turned me away from enjoying the work and made me rather negative towards the work. Its why for the past 20years I have done everything but. Am hoping that it was the company, not the field.
> 
> Currently looking at my options to find work and do see electrical apprentice opportunities in my area. Have about 3000hrs but all undocumented. Just trying to get a feel for what the starting wages are and if it's worth the effort.


Undocumented? That tells me you were working for scumbags. Around here that contravenes labour laws.

I don’t understand how somebody would tolerate working for unrecorded hours. Around here it’s almost automatic. The apprentice hours are recorded and then the apprentice goes to school. As an employer, the last thing I need is someone from the apprenticeship branch nosing around after a complaint from a disgruntled employee.


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## oldsparky52 (Feb 25, 2020)

What did you get your degree in? 

Why are you thinking about starting over in the electrical field?


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## funkking (May 27, 2020)

I'm a one man band. I have to do it all. I don't call it grunt work, I call it electrician work. If I don't do it, my customer will call someone else to do it.

You either generally like the work or you don't. Had you stayed in the trade, you might be past some of the less desirable work by now.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

What's your degree in?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

If you don't like manual labor, the electrical trade is not for you. 

It's possible, and I've seen it many times, to bypass all the hard labor and be a project manager but the guys who do the actual labor will know in an instant that you started at the top. it will be nearly impossible to gain their respect this way. 

Respect is integral to the trade, just about everything is based on it. If the guys under you (the backs off which your pay comes from) don't respect you, they will make your life.......well......difficult.......

The project managers who come from the field are the most successful by far. 

A college degree usually doesn't mean much, every contractor is looking at how much $$$ he can make off you.


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## Cosmorok (Jun 3, 2019)

This week, my company worked at a new house build in the country, with windchill dipping below -15C, we couldn't get a proper heater in the place because one of the other trades drilled into the feeder cable. We were inside but there isn't anything to the house yet except wood and windows. If this doesn't seem like a good time then maybe the trades aren't for you, no shame in that. I'm 36, twisting marettes, installing metal boxes and running wire in sub zero conditions. If I don't like it, I don't have to be there. Find what is good for you, that doesn't feel like a chore and run with it. The trades never change, my boss is in his 50's, cold with us and doing the same work.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

The Raven said:


> So....look forward to your thoughts


Well seeing that you agree to stuff and don't follow through- you will ALWAYS have a bad time with everything. For instance, you agreed to fill out your user profile and still haven't..........


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Some people are lucky and everything is just handed to them but for most of us we simply have to work for a living. The electrical trade is no exception. We all have good and bad days working in the trade but it's up to us to make the best of what we are tasked to do. If you don't like crawling through attics don't do residential work. If you don't like the cold find a job that is indoors. For the most part electrical work is good pay and less labor intensive than many of the other trades. When ever I feel like work is too hard I watch documentaries about WWII and then I don't feel so bad if I get a job that sucks. Working hard is good for you and so if you get cold work faster. Sometimes you just have to man-up and get things done because the rewards are plenty.


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## 460 Delta (May 9, 2018)

The electrical trade is work, real work, as in sweating and freezing and sore muscles. Want some REAL work? Go mix mortar and carry block to some block masons up a few bucks of scaffold, some Romex racing in an attic is gravy in comparison.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

460 Delta said:


> The electrical trade is work, real work, as in sweating and freezing and sore muscles. Want some REAL work? Go mix mortar and carry block to some block masons up a few bucks of scaffold, some Romex racing in an attic is gravy in comparison.


I started working as an electrician at age 18 and have been gainfully employed throughout my life without any desire to move into something else. I was given the choice to work in any trade I wanted when I started out. Sorry for the long story but it seems relevant. I went to work for a large company "Brown and Root" in 1978. As I was walking in for an interview at a copper processing plant that was under construction in the state of Arizona. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I just wanted to work. I looked around at all the people working and noticed right away that the electricians seemed to be using their brains more than their muscle. They asked me what I wanted to do and I immediately said electrician. Electricians get cold, pinch fingers, get shocked and so on but they have it made compared to other trades.


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## poncho144 (Apr 7, 2018)

The Raven said:


> First off, hey all! Happy there is a place I can ask this stuff.
> 
> So I graduated from a tech HS in 1998 in an electrical program. Worked 2 years until the bosses wife asked me why I was not going to college...4 year degree $80k in student debt later here I am.
> 
> ...


Well, young dude c'mon outta the gate here be what I did. After flounder'n around like your self I hooked up with my local Utility company, the only opening was in an antiquated Steam Generating plant on Shift work. It was by far the filthiest lousy back break'n toil I ever had. Almost as horrible as my previous experience in the US Paratroops. After fight'n it for four months an opening came up at their newest Power Plant, so naturally I jumped on it , took mucho tests lasting most of the day and a pack of Lucky's. To cut to the chase, I pulled 44 years in this four unit Plant, worked up from the Ashes to Control Operator, which took fourteen years but the pay off was tremendous. No only did I learn the complete Fossil Fuel Steam Generation concept but Operated all equipment Boilers/Turbines/Generators/Computers/Interface Units and systems in a ultra modern 700 MW Power Plant.
Not to brag, but my income beat everyone's in my extended family, all friends, even bro-in-law who was a bonified Millwright. My best year was 85 grand back in 2008. BTW, ran into an ole Operator bud couple years back an he said he was mak'n over 100 grand an more was there IF he wanted to work overtime.If ya Google it you won't find the correct pay, I think it might be because of non Union jobs. Not sure, but anyway I was in the IBEW Local 702.
So, here is a tip for a reasonable rewarding life time paradigm. Good luck young'n, an bless ya!


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## Phillipd (Jan 7, 2020)

I


The Raven said:


> First off, hey all! Happy there is a place I can ask this stuff.
> 
> So I graduated from a tech HS in 1998 in an electrical program. Worked 2 years until the bosses wife asked me why I was not going to college...4 year degree $80k in student debt later here I am.
> 
> ...


 Im 46 and a first year and I’m here to tell you yes it’s still grunt work for start out pay. Think about it,if you were in the trade 25 plus years and owned your own company would you pay the first year more than you make yourself and give them all the gravy jobs and take all the crap ones yourself. Cant see it,we all gotta pay our dues man!


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## CWL (Jul 7, 2020)

460 Delta said:


> The electrical trade is work, real work, as in sweating and freezing and sore muscles. Want some REAL work? Go mix mortar and carry block to some block masons up a few bucks of scaffold, some Romex racing in an attic is gravy in comparison.


You’re absolutely correct about that. I spent some summers in high school working for masons mixing mortar and carrying bricks, stone block and concrete block. Hard work and almost exclusively out in the elements. I learned a lot from the best natural stone man in the area. Most importantly that I didn’t want that for a career.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

Going on 51 years in the trade, 50+ employees and I still do grunt work if it needs to be done.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

funkking said:


> I'm a one man band. I have to do it all. I don't call it grunt work, I call it electrician work. If I don't do it, my customer will call someone else to do it.
> 
> You either generally like the work or you don't. Had you stayed in the trade, you might be past some of the less desirable work by now.


I'm also a one man band, been in the trade for 35+ years and I actually enjoy getting paid really, really good money to do grunt work. Think about it: mindless work, no stress, and still make a good living. You just have to get past that non-as-good living part of your career.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

Raven it would be nice to know what your "college...4 year degree" was related to. That might help us direct you as it might apply towards the electrical trades. 40 is till young and you are probably capable of doing some "grunt work". If working hard is not your bag we can't fault you for that. There are other things you can do in the trade that might only involve a laptop and a chair and you could still make the big bucks. Some of us like the outdoors and the opportunity to stay in shape.


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