# Concentric Bends



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Very bad ass.


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## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

a masterpiece.

how many man hours ?


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## tjb (Feb 12, 2014)

Really nice.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

wildleg said:


> a masterpiece.
> 
> how many man hours ?


It was less than three 10 hr days (30 hrs) to do all the calcs and bend/cut/thread the sixty-six 90 degree pieces of 1" and 2" rigid. 7 racks of pipe and of course the first took by far the longest.

Hard to break out the install because it also involved installing the fiberglass boxes above and bending all the offsets, no two of which were the same. Plus of course being pulled off onto other things for days at a time. I would say that the install, once the offsets were spun on, took 2-4 hrs per rack.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Here's a couple more racks I did on the same job that didn't have concentrics. I had to do one real similar to the first picture in Rob Roy with 25 distinct offsets and the picture didn't come out, guess I'll post it anyway.


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## Apelectric (Dec 6, 2017)

Nice, good job


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## armsjac (Dec 12, 2017)

Very impressive.


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Looks good.


What kind of facility is that?


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Nice pipe work, but those bends in pic look like rolling offsets, not concentric bends


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Cow said:


> Looks good.
> 
> 
> What kind of facility is that?


Industrial Wastewater. It is massive, located in Hillsboro, Oregon. Those concrete walls are the sides of football field sized tanks.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

360max said:


> Nice pipe work, but those bends in pic look like rolling offsets, not concentric bends


You probably just didn't see the first set of pics somehow. Concentric 90's atop rolling offsets. I also added some pics farther down of the runs that were just rolling offsets.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

360max said:


> Nice pipe work, but those bends in pic look like rolling offsets, not concentric bends


His center points are what you need to look at, they are both.


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

So what was the maths.

Radius of internal bend calculated to circumstance divided by 4 giving you the internal length. Divide by 2 to give number of bends. Divide number of bends by 90 for the degrees then using the number of bends and the calculated bend angle bend the conduit ever 2 inches ?

Or is there some fluff due to stretching ?


Forgot to add.

Dam nice job


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

wildleg said:


> a masterpiece.
> 
> how many man hours ?


Actually I was thinking about it and I misspoke (it was awhile ago). My foreman and I came in on a Saturday and spent about 8 hrs building the no dog sliding table, arguing about where to start the bends (we couldn't get up there to measure) and bending the first set together. We new we would have to cut and rethread the long end once we could get measurements. So the total man hours for prefab of the concentrics was about 46 hrs and I had help at the start.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I miss doing this kind of stuff... It seems lately the only bends I get to do are in a piece of 14/2 romex…

Nice work.

Cheers
John


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Switched said:


> His center points are what you need to look at, they are both.


They look like rolling offsets


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

Concentric bends

https://goo.gl/images/WDSLU8


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

360max said:


> They look like rolling offsets


A concentric bend keeps the same center point. You can roll an offset and keep it concentric at the same time. 

Not all the bends are concentric, but if you look at a number of the photos you can see that the same center point is kept through each of the rolling offsets.

In any case, it is very nice work.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

360max said:


> They look like rolling offsets


There are rolling offsets... directly underneath a bunch of concentric 90s.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Look at post #6 the top picture as well. I would consider those concentric bends with a rolling offset.

Each bend is pretty concentric, take the line of the offset and follow it up from the middle of the run to the outside of the run. That is concentric as they all keep the same center point.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

gpop said:


> Radius of internal bend calculated to circumference divided by 4 giving you the internal length. Divide by 2 to give number of bends. Divide number of bends by 90 for the degrees then using the number of bends and the calculated bend angle bend the conduit ever 2 inches ?


I am pretty impressed that you remember how, but I guess once you understand the principal it may be like learning to ride a bike? I guess I will find out if I ever get to bend another concentric on a job!

I did it a bit different but same principal and used a rubber band to layout bend marks:
1. Tried to use angles which were easy to add, like 12 bends @ 7.5 degrees each, 15 bends @ 6 degrees each, 18 bends @ 5 degrees each, 30 bends @ 3 degrees each. And I think I did 22 bends @ 4.1 degree each and 26 bends @3.46 degree each as well. I divided my developed length by 2", as you said, and made sure to use more segments than that so I stayed under 2" per segment.
2. Took a long cut rubber band that I had marked at something like 1/4" intervals with a fine point pen. I had also highlighted the 12th, 15th, 18th, 22nd, 26th, 30 mark. Just stretched it out and held the right number of bends between my start mark and developed length mark to layout my bend marks. It wasn't perfect but it was close enough and the same on each conduit so it looked fine. Saves a ton of time from adding fractions of inches.

I wouldn't want to bend many of these without a good rubber band and a digital angle finder!


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## gpop (May 14, 2018)

Wexcellent said:


> I am pretty impressed that you remember how, but I guess once you understand the principal it may be like learning to ride a bike? I guess I will find out if I ever get to bend another concentric on a job!


ive never bent one, i was just guessing that was the way you would do it. 

I did find the part about setting up some strut to act as a no dog as a great idea. 

I was a metal worker 20+ years ago so some of the principals are the same.

If it was me doing it i would probably have started with the 555 on its back then set up a table to avoid dogging the pipe (also im old so im not fighting 2" all day)


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

You should have held out for a table bender, and segment shoes.


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

360max said:


> They look like rolling offsets


#6 is rolling offsets. #1 has rolling offsets and concentric bends. Check out the 90s. There's over 50 of them pictured.
Fine craftsmanship, Wex.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

I think when people post pictures of this kind of pipe artistry they really ought to post a picture of the scrap pile as well, you could gain or lose points


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

splatz said:


> I think when people post pictures of this kind of pipe artistry they really ought to post a picture of the scrap pile as well, you could gain or lose points


That bone pile's between me and the dumpster. Nothing to see here.:wink:


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

joebanana said:


> You should have held out for a table bender, and segment shoes.


I would still be waiting.....


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## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

splatz said:


> I think when people post pictures of this kind of pipe artistry they really ought to post a picture of the scrap pile as well, you could gain or lose points



I looked up Chops' jobsite on google earth, zoomed in, and saw this:


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## Chops146 (Aug 26, 2018)

LawnGuyLandSparky said:


> I looked up Chops' jobsite on google earth, zoomed in, and saw this:


Good thing I got the tarp over the dumpster so you could only see what spilled out!


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

splatz said:


> I think when people post pictures of this kind of pipe artistry they really ought to post a picture of the scrap pile as well, you could gain or lose points


Believe it or not there was no bone pile on the concentric bends, some herculean two man "adjustments", but no bone pile.

On the rolling offsets I can neither confirm nor deny the size of the bone pile....:blink::blink::biggrin:

I will say that we had a rack with something like 25 distinct Ocal rolling offsets (the biggest being almost 5' The wall was wonky and we had crappy dies and no Ocal tri stand. Let's just say it was dark couple of days and I don't even want to know how much that rack cost. I actually took a day off and my foreman put another guy on it. I came back to over a grand added to the bone pile (eight sticks of 2" Ocal). That guy didn't last on the job much longer.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

It’s great to see that kind of craftsmanship, seems a fading artwork as cable trays are everywhere. Great work bro!!


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

I've never had a bone pile very big either. When I am done running my 10' of 1/2" EMT I usually only have the need for one load to the recycle place.


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## bostonPedro (Nov 14, 2017)

Good work.
As someone who did a good amount of concentric and segment bends out of need on jobs I would bend at least one on other jobs when time allowed to keep it fresh in my memory. Doesn't need to be eye popping either and can be as simple as running a 3/4 or 1 inch pipe next to a 3 inch pipe just pick your spot wisely...…..saves rack space


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## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

If this was your first time doing this type bending- I am impressed. A good bending table really makes it easier, but in a pinch I have bent one or two conduits to match a radius using a hand bender on small pipe.


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## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

Nice work! If you get a chance I would like to see the fence you made to keep the pipe straight in the triple nickel.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

JohnJ65 said:


> Nice work! If you get a chance I would like to see the fence you made to keep the pipe straight in the triple nickel.


This is a good question too. Many guys can figure out and post pictures of the final (me included) but what many of us want to know (or perhaps more accurately "how") did you do the bends. Pictures of the bender, table, jigs, etc are really the time savers here and the math is easy enough.

Especially if it is in rigid as in the pics. Most rookies don't even know about shrinkage, let alone calculate it for a properly placed thread on rigid. I go onto some of my jobs and there is always short pieces of pipe (PVC or EMT) all over the floor because they don't know how to calculate for the shrinkage, so they put in a bigger piece of pipe and then cut it to fit. That would never happen with rigid...

Cheers

John


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

joebanana said:


> You should have held out for a table bender, and segment shoes.



There's no advantage to having segment shoes in this case. 



As far as needing a bending table if the biggest conduit is 2" and he had a 555 or similar style bender then just setting the bender up off of the ground a couple of feet onto a workbench would be good enough. 



Do the space btw. bends math, attach a no dog, bend to the proper angle, advance to the next mark, and repeat.


BTW, this job looks really nice and the OP should be proud of it. Word will get around who installed this.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

bill39 said:


> There's no advantage to having segment shoes in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To each their own. I've done it both way's, and a table is way faster, and you only need one person. All bends are on the same plane without a level. Way less chance of cork screwing it, and easier to keep the protractor on it. It's not about pipe size, it's about accuracy. A couple of degrees off the plane of the bend is all it takes to waste a stick.


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## bill39 (Sep 4, 2009)

S


joebanana said:


> To each their own. I've done it both way's, and a table is way faster, and you only need one person. All bends are on the same plane without a level. Way less chance of cork screwing it, and easier to keep the protractor on it. It's not about pipe size, it's about accuracy. A couple of degrees off the plane of the bend is all it takes to waste a stick.


Joe, not trying to get into an argument here either. Just sharing ideas. Are you talking about using an A-frame or Cam track style of bender and a big table (see below)? If so, then you’re right that you won’t get a dogleg or wow in the bend.

Also, I rarely used a protractor after figuring the amount of travel for a 90 deg bend. It’s much quicker that way.


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## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

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


bill39 said:


> S
> 
> Joe, not trying to get into an argument here either. Just sharing ideas. Are you talking about using an A-frame or Cam track style of bender and a big table (see below)? If so, then you’re right that you won’t get a dogleg or wow in the bend.
> 
> Also, I rarely used a protractor after figuring the amount of travel for a 90 deg bend. It’s much quicker that way.


The OP says he used a triple nickle. That's doing it the hard way.

Edit: The pic didn't post. Anyway, I'm talking about a 1802 table, and a 885 rig with segment shoes.








A protractor is easier, no "figuring", and with ram travel you have to be dead on, and cinched up the same each time, otherwise you get a wonky bend. Too much room for error.

Besides you're bending a 90, @~2.5 to 5 degrees at a time, or so, making ram travel minuscule, and hit or miss at best.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Nice work @Wexcellent. Did you say your a tenth term apprentice? What is that ?


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

Navyguy said:


> This is a good question too. Many guys can figure out and post pictures of the final (me included) but what many of us want to know (or perhaps more accurately "how") did you do the bends. Pictures of the bender, table, jigs, etc are really the time savers here and the math is easy enough.
> 
> Especially if it is in rigid as in the pics. Most rookies don't even know about shrinkage, let alone calculate it for a properly placed thread on rigid. I go onto some of my jobs and there is always short pieces of pipe (PVC or EMT) all over the floor because they don't know how to calculate for the shrinkage, so they put in a bigger piece of pipe and then cut it to fit. That would never happen with rigid...
> 
> ...


I wish I had more pictures but let's just say they weren't encouraged on this particular job site.


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## Wexcellent (Dec 17, 2018)

eddy current said:


> Nice work @Wexcellent. Did you say your a tenth term apprentice? What is that ?


In Oregon our apprenticeship is 8000 hrs jobsite and 800 hrs classroom. Takes an average of 5 years and they divide the classroom hrs into ten terms. So if you are ninth or tenth term it is like saying you are in the fifth year of your apprenticeship.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Wexcellent said:


> In Oregon our apprenticeship is 8000 hrs jobsite and 800 hrs classroom. Takes an average of 5 years and they divide the classroom hrs into ten terms. So if you are ninth or tenth term it is like saying you are in the fifth year of your apprenticeship.


About the same here. 

I have met guys who did the schooling and have the hours but can’t pass licence exam so they stay at fifth year rate forever. It’s not allowed but some have squeezed through and have done it for ten years and more!

We call them “Master Apprentices” :wink:


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## Going_Commando (Oct 1, 2011)

eddy current said:


> Wexcellent said:
> 
> 
> > In Oregon our apprenticeship is 8000 hrs jobsite and 800 hrs classroom. Takes an average of 5 years and they divide the classroom hrs into ten terms. So if you are ninth or tenth term it is like saying you are in the fifth year of your apprenticeship.
> ...


Around here they are called AFLs (apprentices for life), but most of them never finished the schooling.

Nice pipe work, man!


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## Kawicrash (Aug 21, 2018)

Nice job.
Eech, I hate rigid. Last time I did some was at the Old Dutch potato chip plant about a year ago, but it was aluminum. Nice and light to work with!


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