# Site lighting Issue



## Slowski07 (Oct 9, 2017)

So I have an issue with some site lighting. It is a circuit of short bollards. 277v metal Halide. When the lights are brought on I have a group of 4 or 5 that wont all light at the same time. A couple will fire for a few minutes then go out and as that happens a couple different ones light up for a few minutes and so on. What could be causing this? 
I already traced it back down the line the last light that works correctly but as soon as I hook up the next light in line it starts again. I even used an old extension cord as a jumper to bypass the underground feed and it still does the same thing. 
I was pretty sure it was an underground issue but now I'm not so sure due to the jumper not temporarily solving it.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

A common cause of fire, burn for short period, go out, fire again, etc. is end of bulb life.

Swap some bulbs with known good working lights on the site and see if that gives you an indication.


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## Slowski07 (Oct 9, 2017)

I'm sorry i should have mentioned that on those 4 lights I already changed out both ballasts and bulbs. no change.


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## TheLivingBubba (Jul 23, 2015)

Do these metal halide’s have a thermal overload in them? I have experienced that on premature failure of the thermal overload.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

I've seen this before.

For me it was always under-sized conductors... too far from the panel.

They then function as a _multi-vibrator._

Google the term if it's new to you.

You are exactly describing a multi-vibrator condition.

You didn't mention all of the relevant factors -- such as: "Is this a new build ? "


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## Slowski07 (Oct 9, 2017)

That really does make a lot of sense BUT this is not a new installation. I believe the section in question was installed roughly 6-8 years ago. Possibly my jumper to bypass the underground feed was too small sized. That could have choked the voltage thus continuing the issue even after lamps and ballasts were changed. I'll take another look at it tomorrow and see.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Slowski07 said:


> So I have an issue with some site lighting. It is a circuit of short bollards. 277v metal Halide. When the lights are brought on I have a group of 4 or 5 that wont all light at the same time. A couple will fire for a few minutes then go out and as that happens a couple different ones light up for a few minutes and so on. What could be causing this?
> I already traced it back down the line the last light that works correctly but as soon as I hook up the next light in line it starts again. I even used an old extension cord as a jumper to bypass the underground feed and it still does the same thing.
> I was pretty sure it was an underground issue but now I'm not so sure due to the jumper not temporarily solving it.


Very simple terms .,,

how long the distance the circuit that feed the bollards is ? 

What wattage it is on those MH bulb ?

What type ballast it is ? 

Did you actually check the voltage ? 

What size conductor you did see it there ?

Did ya check all the connection at all of those bollards ? 

those basic info will help us more quicker to find the issue.


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## Slowski07 (Oct 9, 2017)

The distance to these particular bollards is around 200 feet. 
70W Metal Halide
Electronic Metal Halide ballast
I did check voltage. Voltage to ground was fine, voltage to neutral was low. 
Conductor size was 6 Awg which drops down to 10 Awg towards the end of the run. 
I did check the connection at all. I even cut back and re-spliced each bollard when i changed the lamp and ballast. 

Its confusing that it could be a conductor size/distance issue because these lights were fine for years. I've only been here 3 years and never had a issue till now. 

Thank you everyone for all your help so far. I really appreciate it. First time on this forum.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Slowski07 said:


> The distance to these particular bollards is around 200 feet.
> 70W Metal Halide
> Electronic Metal Halide ballast
> I did check voltage. Voltage to ground was fine, *voltage to neutral was low. *
> ...


How low is that voltage to neutral? Maybe that's your problem? And what's the voltage to neutral back at the panel?


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## Cow (Jan 16, 2008)

Slowski07 said:


> I did check voltage. Voltage to ground was fine, voltage to neutral was low.


You have a voltage drop issue.

Now you need to figure out why. 

Loose connections, undersized wire....? Just because it's been installed for years doesn't mean it was correct to begin with. 

*NEVER make assumptions like that.*


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

Does sound like a neutral issue to me. Probably burnt up in the bottom of one of the bollards or in the panel. God I hate working on those piles of ****. 
Maybe get an electrician involved?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Slowski07 said:


> The distance to these particular bollards is around 200 feet.
> 70W Metal Halide
> Electronic Metal Halide ballast
> I did check voltage. Voltage to ground was fine, *voltage to neutral was low*.
> ...



You just answered your own question.

Are the ballasts wired to ground? of course not they are wired to neutral.

Find your neutral problem and fix it.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Might be a neutral issue but my bet goes for voltage drop.

Remember that the Load adds to the voltage drop. The more lights that work, the lower the voltage will be at the furthest light.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

eddy current said:


> Might be a neutral issue but my bet goes for voltage drop.
> 
> Remember that the Load adds to the voltage drop. The more lights that work, the lower the voltage will be at the furthest light.


Existing install. I bet it is a bad connection somewhere. My bet is he either finds a burnt neutral in the panel or a burnt blue wirenut.


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## frenchelectrican (Mar 15, 2007)

Slowski07 said:


> The distance to these particular bollards is around 200 feet.
> 70W Metal Halide
> Electronic Metal Halide ballast
> I did check voltage. Voltage to ground was fine, voltage to neutral was low.
> ...


200 feet is nothing on this espcally on 277Volts 
70 watts MH ballast is very common item they draw about under a amp each on 277volts

The conductor size is really more than enough for this set up.. 


You never mention to us that is that circuit controlled by timer or photocell ??

I have a hunch that ya miss that spot .,, escpally if someone misconnected at the timer ( that I have see it once a while ) 

If that is clear then where did you read the voltage at ? ( at first bollard or end of the bollard circuit ? ) 

So I am leaning to two spots is the timer / photocell and bad underground neutral conductor.


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## FF301 (Jan 12, 2014)

Voltage drop !!!!


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