# NM or UF cable outdoor structure (pavilion)



## joebanana (Dec 21, 2010)

If it's a "dry location" NM is okay.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

That's not my idea of 'conditioned space.'

Your mileage may vary.

You get amazing amounts of condensation within unheated 'seemingly dry' spaces.

Is a couple of feet of UF breaking your bids?

It's not like you're running RobRoy... or MI.


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

I would consider it a damp location, but, you may have to use wet location wiring methods. Damp may be hard to find IMO.
Article 100 Location, Damp including informational note 2014 NEC pg 70-32


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## readydave8 (Sep 20, 2009)

telsa said:


> You get amazing amounts of condensation within unheated 'seemingly dry' spaces.


someone asked in another thread if crawl space under house is damp location, one answer mentioned that the framing is not PT and therefore not wet enough space to rot wood and therefore Romex should be ok

Any similarity?

Also wondering about unheated attic space in house

I don't think he needs UF in the enclosed ceiling, but may not be considering all factors, and so reserve the right to change my opinion


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Here's how I think this through.
It's the space between a ceiling and a roof. We call that an attic.
What would you normally run in an attic?
The fact the space below the ceiling is not heated should not be a factor, correct?


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## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

is UF rated at 90C? dont think so, some lights ask for 90C wiring


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Southwire spec sheet:

https://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM1


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## Bird dog (Oct 27, 2015)

nrp3 said:


> Southwire spec sheet:
> 
> https://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM1


I think this is what you're after...
https://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet8


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You have to use uf if the wiring is exposed. In a finished area then nm is fine although you never know what an inspector will say. It should not be in a damp area or you would have to use UF.

I would probably use UF to avoid issues. Technically, is NM allowed in a crawl space -- Yes, but most are damp as heck.

I have never used UF to wire lights in a porch ceiling of a house so NM should be fine.

Btw, uf has 90C wire in it just as nm does. The ampacity is limited to 60C



> 340.112 Insulation. The conductors of Type UF shall be one
> of the moisture-resistant types listed in Table 310.104(A) that is
> suitable for branch-circuit wiring or one that is identified for
> such use. Where installed as a substitute wiring method for NM
> cable, the conductor insulation shall be rated 90°C (194°F).


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## Mulder (Sep 11, 2010)

If the ceiling is covered, NM is ok. If not then UF.

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not
subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to
moderate degrees of moisture. (CMP-1)

Informational Note: Examples of such locations include partially
protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open
porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to
moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some
barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Oh the joys of being able to use the UF wire. We would have to pipe the whole thing. 

When you guys use the UF outdoors like in the pergola, do you just secure it to the framing? Does it install like NM and then go to a Bell Box with a WP fitting?

I've seen some used on decks here, but we have to rip it out and pipe it in.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Bird dog said:


> I think this is what you're after...
> https://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet8



Yeh, sorry, meant to post a link to their UF product not that.


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

I've done all the other installs with UF, but I was wondering if I could use NM.
It seems just like any other space similar to an attic, front porch overhangs, etc.

I understand using UF from a junction box up the pavilion post into the ceiling, but after that maybe using NM to jump the lighting.


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

Switched said:


> Oh the joys of being able to use the UF wire. We would have to pipe the whole thing.
> 
> When you guys use the UF outdoors like in the pergola, do you just secure it to the framing?


Uf is installed the same as nm cable. It can be stapled to the bottom of decks, ceiling joists etc. As long as it is protected from damage it can be run in all places that nm can be run and more...




> Does it install like NM and then go to a Bell Box with a WP fitting?
> 
> I've seen some used on decks here, but we have to rip it out and pipe it in.


Yes a bell box with nm connector if you enter the box of the box is compliant. Why do you have to rip it out? Is it an amendment for your area?


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Dennis Alwon said:


> Yes a bell box with nm connector if you enter the box of the box is compliant. Why do you have to rip it out? Is it an amendment for your area?


Yes it is an amendment, we can't have anything exposed below 8'. Mc-Cable, NM, and UF. Even Flex, LFNMC, and LFMC can only be used in situations that "Require" flexibility. They are pretty persistent with that requirement too.

A bit of a PITA for a number of reasons. A bunch of EMT or PVC looks like balls on a brand new nicely crafted outdoor wooden structure. But many people know it now, so they build the conduit into the framing and conceal it as much as possible on nicer structures.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Recent job at neighbors. Pavillion with drywall ceiling. Any wiring leaving the ceiling is in UF and further , it is sleeved in pvc where it drops down to some switches. The owner didn't care if the switches were exposed so I didn't get them into the block columns , but I would have used UF inside pvc for any of those as well had there been any.


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## Wiresmith (Feb 9, 2013)

Switched said:


> Yes it is an amendment, we can't have anything exposed below 8'. Mc-Cable, NM, and UF. Even Flex, LFNMC, and LFMC can only be used in situations that "Require" flexibility. They are pretty persistent with that requirement too.
> 
> A bit of a PITA for a number of reasons. A bunch of EMT or PVC looks like balls on a brand new nicely crafted outdoor wooden structure. But many people know it now, so they build the conduit into the framing and conceal it as much as possible on nicer structures.


wait till they figure out that all those motors, transformers and condensers don't "Require Flexibility". I'm gonna tell em', give me their number.


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Wiresmith said:


> wait till they figure out that all those motors, transformers and condensers don't "Require Flexibility". I'm gonna tell em', give me their number.


Actually they do... when the Other Guys show up to swap out failed components. :crying:


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## Kaffeene (Feb 11, 2014)

I ended up wiring 10 recessed lights, 2 ceiling fans and an entry light on the pavilion in UF.
I brought everything down inside an outdoor fireplace framing into a hidden PVC box below (that is accessible). 
The PVC box connects to a 1-1/4" PVC that goes 90' back to the basement of the house with THHN.
The switches and dimmers will be RadioRa2 in the basement so the lighting will be controlled by keypads, PICO's and phone app.

I had a UF cable that went under the pavilion deck framing and I actually used stainless NM staples to secure it.


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