# nyc electrical code and building codes



## grumpy (Oct 31, 2008)

i am getting violations from city inspectors on the bond wire from panel to transformer they are saying that the size of the bond wire must be as large as the feed wire.

fa inspectors are now giving violations on the ground wire for a fuse cut out thay say it should be a number 8 wire not 10.

anyone know where i can read this in black and white i cant seem to find it anywhere


----------



## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

The instructor that taught one of our transformer classes in the apprenticeship said the same thing. But I don't agree with it yet.

Read 250.102(c) and (d). They send you to table 250.122 for sizing. 250.102(d) says it *shall not be required* to be larger than the largest ungrounded circuit conductors. 

Anyone else?


----------



## NevadaBoy (May 4, 2009)

I don't think I had that right. Start with 250.30.
I believe you size off Table 250.66.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Jan 10, 2007)

Grumpy, did you ask them what they are basing these violations on?


----------



## Special Ed (Sep 15, 2009)

grumpy said:


> fa inspectors are now giving violations on the ground wire for a fuse cut out thay say it should be a number 8 wire not 10.
> 
> anyone know where i can read this in black and white i cant seem to find it anywhere


I just heard this from a Fire Alarm vendor yesterday, but also no proof.


----------



## Special Ed (Sep 15, 2009)

The one line diagram on the approved, stamped as-builts, show what the inspector will look for.
Most cases it's a #8 solid green from building steel to the Fused Disconnect Switch (FDS) and then a #10 solid green to the equipment. Be sure to use a #8 double lug to transition the two size wires in the FDS and also terminate the #10 solid neutrals on the isolated neutral bar in the switch.


----------



## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Special Ed said:


> The one line diagram on the approved, stamped as-builts, show what the inspector will look for.
> Most cases it's a #8 solid green from building steel to the Fused Disconnect Switch (FDS) and then a #10 solid green to the equipment. Be sure to use a #8 double lug to transition the two size wires in the FDS and also terminate the #10 solid neutrals on the isolated neutral bar in the switch.


Hey SE, welcome to the forum. Our Fire Code is different than many other locations...in some area's it's still a number 10AWG. We changed that in 2008 I believe. 

Again, welcome!


----------



## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

Here's a transformer drawing I was asked to come up with for the Bonding and Grounding Course we teach


----------



## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

grumpy said:


> i am getting violations from city inspectors on the bond wire from panel to transformer they are saying that the size of the bond wire must be as large as the feed wire.
> 
> *Complete BS. And now we have 35 new inspectors who are violating everything they can. Remember, here in NYC now there is now a fine attached to any life threatening Class 1 Violation*
> 
> ...


Hope that helps.


----------



## Special Ed (Sep 15, 2009)

Thanks Steve! I was just commenting on the Fire Alarm portion of Grumpy's question but thank you for that great diagram.
I am on the mailing list for the Grounding/Bonding class but have not heard of a start date yet.


----------



## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

We're running a class now. The next round will probably be in January. It and Electric Vehicles are two insanely popular classes right now. I teach Code and EV to AJ's...Code and Solar to Apprentices. Sign up for everything you can. The B&G is probably our best course to date and it's only getting better.

Thanks for the props for the diagram. When the App Dept asked me for a diagram I was asked to show the 5th Fl. Next thing I knew they put it in the course book lol. We're trying to keep the AJ's and App's training synced up.


----------



## cmac1 (Aug 31, 2008)

#8 is the smallest grounding electrode you're allowed to use,since the fused disconnect is normally tapped ahead of the main switch it's considered a service switch.Although most FA vendors list it as solid on their drawings I've had no problem using stranded.


----------



## icefalkon (Dec 16, 2007)

cmac1 said:


> #8 is the smallest grounding electrode you're allowed to use,since the fused disconnect is normally tapped ahead of the main switch it's considered a service switch.Although most FA vendors list it as solid on their drawings I've had no problem using stranded.


Same here. I've never had a problem with a Marshal inspecting the FA when he see's it's stranded. They look for the major no no's...did you splice the connection, did you follow Advisory Board Drawings, etc.


----------

