# Must've been a knick in the SER cable...



## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

frasbee said:


> I told them I just got electrocuted, but they kept askin' if I wasn't sure it wasn't just my nerves.


I don't think you would be telling them you were electrocuted. You would be dead. Dead men don't talk.


----------



## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

I told them I just got electrocuted

electrocuted = dead
you just had voltage applied to you without a bunch of amps
glad your ok


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I think you can be electrocuted and not be dead. Death orders say "electrocuted until dead". My wife is a nurse, and I notice in some of her nursing books sections called "electrocution injury". Don't ask me what the difference between simply being shocked and electrocuted (but not dead) is. I guess that "electrical shock" is not a medical term.


----------



## mattsilkwood (Sep 21, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocution


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

I heard that somewhere that tongues are more sensitive than your hands. next time lick the wire so you'll know if its hot sooner. (by the way, you are probably a dumb a$$ for not thinking the cable was damaged- what did all the brain surgeons standing around think caused the power to go out ?)


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> So we worked late yesterday, well until 6pm, and came in this morning.
> 
> They wanted to clean up the pipe and the cable to see if there was any damage.
> 
> ...


TEST before touching.....I'm sure you will NEVER forget that, now.



Glad you are "OK".


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

> Must've been a knick in the SER cable...


For what it's worth SER should not be underground anyway.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

wildleg said:


> I heard that somewhere that tongues are more sensitive than your hands. next time lick the wire so you'll know if its hot sooner. (by the way, you are probably a dumb a$$ for not thinking the cable was damaged- what did all the brain surgeons standing around think caused the power to go out ?)


No, there were two panels feeding two separate panels on opposite sides of the building.

We knew the pipe feeding the right side was probably damaged. That disconnect was already off. That one was also ran with aluminum cable.

The other still had juice and was powering the left side of the building, but it turns out, the PVC pipe that the SER was fed through, was also damaged, leaving the SER exposed.

I'm less inclined to think I'm a dumba$$ if only because I was under the impression that if electricity found a good path to ground, it would take it, and therefore burn the fuse. Considering it was caked in wet mud for weeks, and we had no problem on that side of the building, I thought it was fine.

One of the electricians was saying that a high enough voltage could be felt outside of the jacket. I'm not sure if that's true, but now I'm really confused. _Is_ that true?


----------



## JTMEYER (May 2, 2009)

Definitly. Run 7200 though cable rated for 600v you'll feel it thriugh the jacket.  He was jacking you.


----------



## pudge565 (Dec 8, 2007)

MDShunk said:


> I think you can be electrocuted and not be dead. Death orders say "electrocuted until dead". My wife is a nurse, and I notice in some of her nursing books sections called "electrocution injury". Don't ask me what the difference between simply being shocked and electrocuted (but not dead) is. I guess that "electrical shock" is not a medical term.


Main Entry: *elec·tro·cute* 

Pronunciation: \i-ˈlek-trə-ˌkyüt\
Function: _transitive verb_ 
Inflected Form(s): *elec·tro·cut·ed*; *elec·tro·cut·ing*
Etymology: _electr-_ + _-cute_ (as in _execute_)
Date: 1889
*1* *:* to execute (a criminal) by electricity
*2* *:* to kill by electric shock
— *elec·tro·cu·tion* \-ˌlek-trə-ˈkyü-shən\ _noun
_


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

You forgot Golden Rule "2.. always take pics to document the damage and show us what happened. :thumbsup:

Golden Rule #1.. NEVER grab a cable till you are sure power is off :no:


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

pudge565 said:


> Main Entry: *elec·tro·cute*
> 
> Pronunciation: \i-ˈlek-trə-ˌkyüt\
> Function: _transitive verb_
> ...


Original post fixed.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Bob Badger said:


> For what it's worth SER should not be underground anyway.


SER cable used to be a 4 conductor cable used for sub-panels, but not below ground. 

Is that the same cable you are talking about?


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> You forgot Golden Rule "2.. always take pics to document the damage and show us what happened. :thumbsup:
> 
> Golden Rule #1.. NEVER grab a cable till you are sure power is off :no:


Someone forgot to tell me that rule sooner.

Anyway, I don't think they wanted to turn it off because the framers, and drywallers, work until 5:30 and they didn't want to turn off all the electricity to the building while people were still working. Not to mention it's dark in there without lights.

Regardless, next time I won't be so quick to volunteer to clean it. Better _him_ than me if they don't want to off the power.



Black4Truck said:


> SER cable used to be a 4 conductor cable used for sub-panels, but not below ground.
> 
> Is that the same cable you are talking about?


Not sure if you're talking to him or me, but I would not at all put it past this company to violate code out of convenience.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Someone forgot to tell me that rule sooner.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think they wanted to turn it off because the framers, and drywallers, work until 5:30 and they didn't want to turn off all the electricity to the building while people were still working. Not to mention it's dark in there without lights.
> 
> Regardless, next time I won't be so quick to volunteer to clean it. Better _him_ than me if they don't want to off the power.


Since when are you expendable??

The mechanic making the big bucks should of jumped in the trench, not you :no:


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Black4Truck said:


> Since when are you expendable??
> 
> The mechanic making the big bucks should of jumped in the trench, not you :no:


It's a balancing act between stepping up to challenges and taking on responsibilities, and reminding myself of my pay.

One of the reasons why I quit my old company is because I might've stepped up too much because I felt as though I was very poorly compensated for the amount of work I did, and was capable of doing.

I lost balance on this one.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> It's a balancing act between stepping up to challenges and taking on responsibilities.....


How long have you been in the trade?
[A couple or 3 years, right?]


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

February 2008 until now...so that's 1 year and 8 months?


----------



## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

I still do not understand SER in conduit. Is this for temporary power?


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

crazymurph said:


> I still do not understand SER in conduit. Is this for temporary power?


Yes.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

crazymurph said:


> I still do not understand SER in conduit. Is this for temporary power?


It's New Orleans, no telling what kind of hack wired the school 20 years ago.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Yes.


Nevermind.


----------



## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

I'm calling in OSHA. This is [email protected]@@@@. Unsafe work pratices at are our expense.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

well, I just hope you learned something. you shouldn't have been in the ditch in the first place. there might have been a really nice current path in the vicinity of the fault (enough to kill you, but not enough to trip the breaker due to earth resistance). you jump in the ditch, you got no place to go but 6 feet under if that is the case, and noone is getting you out in time. please be more careful.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> February 2008 until now...so that's 1 year and 8 months?




There is a reason helpers/apprentices are not allowed to work hot/on temporary. [...may be an IBEW line item]


Count your blessings.


----------



## Fredman (Dec 2, 2008)

Frasbee said:


> Yes.


 
So these temp feeds are buried 3' down?:blink:

(I'm learning here...)


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Fredman said:


> So these temp feeds are buried 3' down?:blink:
> 
> (I'm learning here...)


 
My thoughts exactly:no:


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

People seem so confused by this thread.

Did I use incorrect terminology?

Cables come off utility pole into two panels (disconnects?) outside. The one on the left had to have its' fuses and cables replaced because it burnt up after the PVC was broken open and became damaged fed the first panel on the first floor on one side of the building.

The one on the right, where two of us got shocked, which they used SER cable sent through PVC, fed a panel on the other side of the building.

Both were buried 3' down.

All of this is temporary power.


----------



## wildleg (Apr 12, 2009)

as bob pointed out, these cables are illegal. article 590 clearly states that unless 590 allows temporary, it must meet other portions of the code. 590 says that branch ckts and feeders "IN" buildings for temporary can be nm, it does not say that nm or se can be used for outside or underground. this is a violation, and I think you found out first hand why.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I wonder if that was why they weren't worried about taking pictures.

They kept mentioning about proving they weren't at fault, but they didn't seem interested in showing the GC or taking photos of the damage.


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> No, there were two panels feeding two separate panels on opposite sides of the building.
> 
> We knew the pipe feeding the right side was probably damaged. That disconnect was already off. That one was also ran with aluminum cable.
> 
> ...


 

You're lucky you did not become that "path". You would not be here typing.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're lucky you did not become that "path". You would not be here typing.


Yes, I was lucky considering I was surrounded by several supposedly more qualified individuals who even provided the bucket of water and cloth to clean off the cable.

I don't know what you guys want from me, I've never tried to hide my ignorance on how electricity works with the amount of questions I've posted on the topic. It's still very much an anomaly to me.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> Yes, I was lucky considering I was surrounded by several supposedly more qualified individuals who even provided the bucket of water and cloth to clean off the cable.
> 
> I don't know what you guys want from me, I've never tried to hide my ignorance on how electricity works with the amount of questions I've posted on the topic. It's still very much an anomaly to me.


Don't worry about it. More than likely people here are simply worried about workers safety regardless of level of experience. It sounds like your understanding of electricity may be on even a higher level than the "more qualified individuals" who made the apprentice jump in the ditch. Just because a guy has more field experience than you doesn't make him smarter. in many cases you may find that journeymen and supervisors and foremen and bosses and general contractors and site supervisors and engineers are complete idiots. Don't trust idiots with your life.


----------



## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I don't know what you guys want from me....


Frasbee,
I think we all want you to be able to unlace your own boots every night.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> I don't know what you guys want from me,





Celtic said:


> Frasbee,
> I think we all want you to be able to unlace your own boots every night.


The data is a bit old but still




> A total of 5,348 workers were electrocuted in 5,180 incidents from 1980 through 1992.


That is more then 2 workers per work day for 12 years.

How old are you Frasbee?










Seriously, be careful


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

Some more info to bring it right home to us (electricians)


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Interesting stats. I fall in the highest rate of deaths bracket:thumbup:. Wheres the plumbers?....I love when a plumber tells me his job is much more important b/c toxic gases can get into a house an kill. How many times have you heard that happening?


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm 23.

Lesson thankfully, learned. I can assure you all that something like this will never happen again. It's kind of amazing since there was still quite a load on those panels with the drywallers and framers still working. And I was wet and covered in mud.

I still don't quite understand it.

But I guess if the power is off, I don't really have to.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

NolaTigaBait said:


> Interesting stats. I fall in the highest rate of deaths bracket:thumbup:. Wheres the plumbers?....I love when a plumber tells me his job is much more important b/c toxic gases can get into a house an kill. How many times have you heard that happening?


I love when anyone acts like their job is more important. i also like it when someone says that being an electrician is easier than all the other trades. :boxing:


----------



## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Bob Badger said:


> Some more info to bring it right home to us (electricians)


where did you get this bob - this would have been very helpful the other day


----------



## nolabama (Oct 3, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> Not sure if you're talking to him or me, but I would not at all put it past this company to violate code out of convenience.



would not put it past em :laughing::laughing:
be careful


----------



## crazymurph (Aug 19, 2009)

The worst part of the story is the contractor sends a kid down in a hole to examine an energized cable that may have been damaged. Both cables should have been de-energized before anyone went down to check the damage. I know a guy who when he was an apprentice got rapped from a 277V. light fixture. All because the forman did not want to turn off the circuit because it was in a hospital. The kid fell from the ladder and hit his head. The resulting fall damaged the part of his brain that controls the sense of taste and smell.


----------



## Bob Badger (Apr 19, 2009)

nolabama said:


> where did you get this bob - this would have been very helpful the other day



http://www.cdc.gov/niosh


----------



## Charlie K (Aug 14, 2008)

Frasbee, I don't know what you are trying to prove or who you are trying to impress. You do not belong on any circuit that is hot or energized. Period. Does the company you work for have a safety program? Do they have a safety director? Judging from your other posts it seems as if you have something to prove. It does not have to be proven to us. Are you going to apprenticeship school? If so they should also be teaching you safety there also. One last question, do you know what lockout tagout is.

Charlie


----------



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Bob Badger said:


> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh


 Thanks for the link.


----------



## ArrrrrMatey (Oct 23, 2009)

mcclary's electrical said:


> You're lucky you did not become that "path". You would not be here typing.


If he wasn't the path to ground, how did he get shocked? Either he was grounded in some way, or there was more than one knick in the cable and he touched two conductors.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

ArrrrrMatey said:


> If he wasn't the path to ground, how did he get shocked? Either he was grounded in some way, or there was more than one knick in the cable and he touched two conductors.


I was holding a wet rag and I have no doubts there was more than one knick in the cord.

I didn't clean it off enough to see.

It was just an intense tingling feeling, but only isolated to my hand.


----------



## ArrrrrMatey (Oct 23, 2009)

Frasbee said:


> I was holding a wet rag and I have no doubts there was more than one knick in the cord.
> 
> I didn't clean it off enough to see.
> 
> It was just an intense tingling feeling, but only isolated to my hand.


 Makes perfect sense then.


When I was younger and even dumber than I am now I was replacing receptacles in the floor of a shopping mall, the floor was tile. The stranded wire was going directly under the screw so I would make sure I wasn't touching anything else while I twisted the strands of the hot wire together to make it neater. I didn't get shocked because I wasn't grounded. I was laying on my stomach, but there wasn't a good enough path to ground- until one day when it was hot and humid and my sweat mixed with the moist grout on the floor made a better path to ground and gave me a good tingle.


----------

