# smoke comming from lightbulbs on chandelier



## Wireless (Jan 22, 2007)

Or dust! When was the last time it was turned on?


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

its in the dining room, i would guess frequently. she called me tonight im going to look at it tomorrow, she turned the switch off and it stopped smoking. but its old wiring could be nob and tube or bx. im thinking look at switch, find breaker. test fixture. then take out all light bulbs on circuit and ring it out. hopfuly im not their for a half day on Christmas.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Sigh.... another apprentice (without insurance and license) doing service call work..........


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

i already have my four years work exp and 2 years of school. im going for my NH journeymen exam in January. i probably shouldn't do it but im positive i can figure it out. if its something i don't feel comfortable with l will tell her to hire someone. worst case i turn the circuit off she calls someone.


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

so do it & report back Unca, extra credit if you post your pix wearing antlers on the job

:thumbsup:

~CS~


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

uncfesta said:


> i already have my four years work exp and 2 years of school. im going for my NH journeymen exam in January. i probably shouldn't do it but im positive i can figure it out. if its something i don't feel comfortable with l will tell her to hire someone. worst case i turn the circuit off she calls someone.


But here's the issue: Are you licensed and insured to be working on your own?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Worse case, she slips the insurance man his name after the fire, the entire licensing board and NH state fire marshals show up @ Unca's door, channel 3 news camera & twinkle t*ts shoves a mic in his face as he opens his door...?

~CS~


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

no, but but i know what im doing. I'm most likely going to tell her call her electrician and learn something from it. ive mstly worked on generator jobs and new construction, and several big rewires. Ive seen burnt up outlets, chard neutrals, and shorted wires. if i cant fix it at least i can turn off the circuit for her till her electrician can get their.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

not going to happen. non of the work Ive done for my boss has never failed, i go out on my own alot even though its not legal. but the difrence is hes licensed and insured. i never go above my head. if i find im having a problem on a job i call him he comes out.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

this is not for my boss though so not covered


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

Nah. Smoke coming from the fixture itself is a problem with the fixture. Assuming it lights, I wouldn't even open the switch.

In this order, I'd check:
Dusty lamps
Overlamped sockets
Possible overvoltage running lamps hot
Burning connection within fixture, smoke escaping through sockets.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

times are tough he doesn't have much work he keeps me working but I'm lucky if i get 30 hrs a week, I'm only making 15/hr. got a car payment and rent, and student loans. definitely searching for another job. better than handyman coming out and taking a look


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

that's what i figure take down fixture remove light bulbs then ring it out. i figured it wasn't anything big because every short ive seen smokes at the point of short.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

uncfesta said:


> not going to happen. non of the work Ive done for my boss has never failed,..........



Well, if that's your 'insurance' policy, I wish you luck with it.


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## stuiec (Sep 25, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Well, if that's your 'insurance' policy, I wish you luck with it.


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## RGH (Sep 12, 2011)

maybe there is something hung up on a bulb...


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

if i lose my license i lose everything. 2 years in an apprentice program and 3 years going for my associates in electrical. not to mention all my work time into this. 26 years old things are starting to go my way. so if its over my head i wont touch it.


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## denny3992 (Jul 12, 2010)

And learn to spell, apprentice not apprentace....

Just saying.....


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

if you were me i bet you would do do it to, and i bet you did it when you were were im at.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

using auto correct


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## ceb58 (Feb 14, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> if i lose my license i lose everything. 2 years in an apprentice program and 3 years going for my associates in electrical. not to mention all my work time into this. 26 years old things are starting to go my way. so if its over my head i wont touch it.


It is over your head. Maybe not in the work or troubleshooting but in the legalities. Sure every one has bills to pay but is a service call for a light fixture worth it?


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> my guess would be a short in the fixture or short somewhere in the circuit.


I love when people with little to no knowledge of electrical theory toss terms like "short" around, as if they know what they're talking about.

It's not a short circuit, --------.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

if a hot wire is touching the neutral anywhere in the circuit it is def a short. weather it be in the fixture because the it was drawing to much curent for some reason and heated up the lampcord wires that eventualy melted and shortd. witch will cause it to arc and smoke.(what else do they call it when 2 wires make unitended contact) i have seen it and smelled it. defiantly not tossing the word around to sound smart. its possible, and it wont necessarily trip the breaker for many obvious reasons. point is you dont know just by hearing whats happening you have to actualy look at it and see why its smoking. in all symphonists Ive seen several experienced electricians make mistakes it happens and its always because they were not paying attention not double checking their work because their confident. I always double check. and hopefully work picks up so i dont have to do this anymore.


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Big John has my vote of not going to the switch. Someone maybe holiday cleaning?


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

European fixture not intended for 120 volts?


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

uncfesta said:


> if i lose my license i lose everything. 2 years in an apprentice program and 3 years going for my associates in electrical. not to mention all my work time into this. 26 years old things are starting to go my way. so if its over my head i wont touch it.


You're not getting it. Crap happens. It happens to everyone. Something you didn't touch could become a problem and you might get blamed. If you have insurance, you call them and they take care of it. If you don't have insurance, you have the possibility of having to defend yourself in court.

Of course if you have nothing of value to lose then it doesn't matter. 

I carry insurance more for my customer than for me. If something happens on my watch, I want them to be able to get whole.

No one is suggesting you are not capable. You just haven't run into a rat ba$tard attorney.


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## Pete m. (Nov 19, 2011)

uncfesta said:


> my guess would be a short in the fixture or short somewhere in the circuit.


Are you sure those are not candles?

Pete


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> But here's the issue: Are you licensed and insured to be working on your own?


In New Hampshire He must have a Masters License to work on his own.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> using auto correct


Dam Iphones do not know how to spell...:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

I'll bet their CFL lamps Non-dimmable type on a dimmer switch..:whistling2:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> In New Hampshire He must have a Masters License to work on his own.


None are so blind as those who refuse to see. He obviously doesn't care about anything other than putting a couple bucks in his pocket. 

He comes here, creates a post, doesn't hear what he wants (accolades, atta-boys and pat-on-the-back-for-saving-the-world), then refuses to listen to the voice of experience and sage advice.

Seriously..... anyone that close to a JW card should know if there's 'smoke coming from the fixture', you don't check the switch or the breaker. (If my truck engine is smoking, I sure as hell don't check the tire pressure!) And if it's a 'short', well, any 1st-week noob knows that shorts trip the breaker.

I wouldn't be surprised if he came back, thumping his chest, proclaiming he found the problem (loose lamp arcing in the socket is my guess) and will further indulge us with his ignorance.


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## Roger123 (Sep 23, 2007)

480sparky said:


> (loose lamp arcing in the socket is my guess)


:thumbsup:


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

480sparky said:


> None are so blind as those who refuse to see. He obviously doesn't care about anything other than putting a couple bucks in his pocket.
> 
> He comes here, creates a post, doesn't hear what he wants (accolades, atta-boys and pat-on-the-back-for-saving-the-world), then refuses to listen to the voice of experience and sage advice.
> 
> ...


And then dares to insinuate that we, the few, the proud, the totally sanctimonious , have less than pristine pasts .....:whistling2:~CS~


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

I am completely certain I have never made a mistake!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> not going to happen. non of the work Ive done for my boss has never failed, i go out on my own alot even though its not legal. but the difrence is hes licensed and insured. i never go above my head. if i find im having a problem on a job i call him he comes out.


Keep in mind your bosses insurence does not cover the work he is having you do unsupervised ,He or another master must be supervising you on the job at all times and if the state catches you working alone on his behalf the state will revoke your apprentice license and disqualifie both your school hours and all the time you've worked and your boss will get his license revoked for having total disregard for the board of electricians rules of conduct.

If you have not read your boards rules of conduct then you should look them up read and understand them.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

nrp3 said:


> I am completely certain I have never made a mistake!


You just screwed up on purpose! :laughing:


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

uncfesta said:


> and i bet you did it when you were were im at.


The sad thing is this is true but now that they are business owners they think they have the right to talk down to you. Bunch of hypocrites I tell ya!


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

That's it!


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

CanadianSparky said:


> The sad thing is this is true but now that they are business owners they think they have the right to talk down to you. Bunch of hypocrites I tell ya!


_such cheek!_

I'll have you know _all _my work operates as if touched by the hand of the creator Himself!










~CS~


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

uncfesta said:


> my guess would be a short in the fixture or short somewhere in the circuit.


If there was a short my guess is that the breaker would trip.

I bet there is a loose connection somewhere..


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

CanadianSparky said:


> The sad thing is this is true but now that they are business owners they think they have the right to talk down to you. Bunch of hypocrites I tell ya!



There's a huge difference between 'talking down' and just telling it like it is. If the OP wants to risk his career and future, not much we can do to stop him. It's his life, and if he wants to throw it away that's his choice.

The fact that he says he's approaching JW status, yet doesn't seen to comprehend what a short circuit really is, compounded by the fact that he really doesn't seem to be able to TS such a simple problem, lends me to think he's really just a homeowner looking for DIY advice.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> if a hot wire is touching the neutral anywhere in the circuit it is def a short. weather it be in the fixture because the it was drawing to much curent for some reason and heated up the lampcord wires that eventualy melted and shortd. witch will cause it to arc and smoke.(what else do they call it when 2 wires make unitended contact) i have seen it and smelled it. defiantly not tossing the word around to sound smart. its possible, and it wont necessarily trip the breaker for many obvious reasons. point is you dont know just by hearing whats happening you have to actualy look at it and see why its smoking. in all symphonists Ive seen several experienced electricians make mistakes it happens and its always because they were not paying attention not double checking their work because their confident. I always double check. and hopefully work picks up so i dont have to do this anymore.


Please explain to me in the best of your ability one of the "many" reasons why a hot conductor making complete contact with a grounded conductor won't cause a breaker to trip. I'm dying to learn something from the guy who can't spell or formulate a proper sentence.

Let's put it this way, most of the guys telling you to back away from this will forget more about electricity than you'll ever know. So shut up, sit down, read the site and maybe you'll learn something.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/...triciantalk.com&jsid=9635&jkId=gp:p429024:t8&

Was this the light?


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## cdslotz (Jun 10, 2008)

uncfesta said:


> times are tough he doesn't have much work he keeps me working but I'm lucky if i get 30 hrs a week, I'm only making 15/hr. got a car payment and rent, and student loans. definitely searching for another job. better than handyman coming out and taking a look


So do you advertise on Craigslist?


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Sigh.... another apprentice (without insurance and license) doing service call work..........


Yep..... and so many of us have done the same thing when first starting out..

The first shop I worked for did nothing but new housing.. they were running (8) trucks six days a week...

The new HO's would constantly ask the guys if we did work on the side... YES.. no problem...

The owner of the company had so much money rolling in and a great crew of guys... he didn't care...

We used to do side jobs after work.. nobody cared and life was good.. :thumbup:

The owner died at age (42) from a heart attack and the business died with him..


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

I was never big on side jobs but i honestly cant reprimand someone for trying to survive or take care of his family. If people are willing to let someone without insurance do electrical work on thier homes than they are the ones taking the risk...


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## Tortoise83 (Dec 3, 2012)

It's guys like this that think they know enough about electricity, what they know is how to hurt themselves or someone else. If you can't even TS a light without complete confidence, then you should never take your tools off your BOSSES job site. Get your card and don't be a ******.


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I have no problem with guys like Uncfesta doing small jobs like that on the fly, it's when I find them designing and doing large scale installations or service upgrades on the fly. I personally hate being bothered with those kinds of calls.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

Definitely check the switch. You want to rule out the possibility of smoke being generated in the switch box and traveling through the romex all the way up to the chandelier, down the lamp cord, and out of a socket. Because electrical is, after all, not much different from plumbing. Amirite? :blink:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

the smoke is usually from loose sockets heating up and buzzing it's connections. Unless it's fused on a 30 amp breaker and there is 20 ga. lampcord shorting out it's most likely old loose hardware burning itself out.


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

jza said:


> Please explain to me in the best of your ability one of the "many" reasons why a hot conductor making complete contact with a grounded conductor won't cause a breaker to trip.


It's FPE?


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

i don't advertise on Craigslist. i am looking on CL for a new job. and it turned out it was one of the light sockets burnt up. she wants me to put a new chandelier up. nice easy job quick 50 bucks, although i should have asked for more. defiantly undersold myself.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

if its on a bigger breaker a short wont trip it. if the breaker is not working properly it wont trip.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

jza said:


> Please explain to me in the best of your ability one of the "many" reasons why a hot conductor making complete contact with a grounded conductor won't cause a breaker to trip. I'm dying to learn something from the guy who can't spell or formulate a proper sentence.
> 
> Let's put it this way, most of the guys telling you to back away from this will forget more about electricity than you'll ever know. So shut up, sit down, read the site and maybe you'll learn something.


thats why i use the site and then i end up with guys telling me not to do it.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

My guess is the lamps were in contact with the white sleeves over the sockets and they were melting. 

OR

The cardboard around the socket charring/burning.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

just because i cant spell and am not wasting my time making sure im using proper gramer dos not mean im illiterate


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

uncfesta said:


> just because i cant spell and am not wasting my time making sure im using proper gramer dos not mean im illiterate


It sure gives that impression.:whistling2:


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

480sparky said:


> None are so blind as those who refuse to see. He obviously doesn't care about anything other than putting a couple bucks in his pocket.
> 
> He comes here, creates a post, doesn't hear what he wants (accolades, atta-boys and pat-on-the-back-for-saving-the-world), then refuses to listen to the voice of experience and sage advice.
> 
> ...


not always. over sized breaker or a faulty breaker will make a short not trip a breaker


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

uncfesta said:


> just because i cant spell and am not wasting my time making sure im using proper gramer dos not mean im illiterate


This proves laziness. Having a good understanding of grammar and spelling speak volumes for you as a person in my opinion. If I had someone come and do work at my home and they sounded like they just left the trailer park I'd second guess using them. I don't care how great your work is learn to speak English properly and stop being a lazy ass.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> just because i cant spell and am not wasting my time making sure im using proper gramer dos not mean im illiterate


:laughing:Nope that just means you are as Dumb as me...:laughing:


Oh Wait did I say that:blink::blink::laughing::laughing:


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## JmanAllen (Aug 3, 2011)

uncfesta said:


> i don't advertise on Craigslist. i am looking on CL for a new job. and it turned out it was one of the light sockets burnt up. she wants me to put a new chandelier up. nice easy job quick 50 bucks, although i should have asked for more. defiantly undersold myself.


And you also make it drive the prices lower for electric work in your area. Most shops around here will fire an apprentice on the spot with no questions if they find out you are doing side work. Here apprentices are Registered to the Contractor so they have to prove they didn't send them out if the inspector Catches them.

$50 worth losing your job and you can't get unemployment. Plus it makes it harder to find another job


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> Keep in mind your bosses insurence does not cover the work he is having you do unsupervised ,He or another master must be supervising you on the job at all times and if the state catches you working alone on his behalf the state will revoke your apprentice license and disqualifie both your school hours and all the time you've worked and your boss will get his license revoked for having total disregard for the board of electricians rules of conduct.
> 
> If you have not read your boards rules of conduct then you should look them up read and understand them.


i know that, that's why i said its illegal. i am looking for a new job, but really just want to wait until i have my jm


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> I'll bet their CFL lamps Non-dimmable type on a dimmer switch..:whistling2:


ive actually seen that before, people are too stupid and don't see on the box do not use with dimmers(fire hazard)


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> if its on a bigger breaker a short wont trip it.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

CanadianSparky said:


> This proves laziness. Having a good understanding of grammar and spelling speak volumes for you as a person in my opinion. If I had someone come and do work at my home and they sounded like they just left the trailer park I'd second guess using them. I don't care how great your work is learn to speak English properly and stop being a lazy ass.


i had a learning disability, english was not my area. i still managed to pass college composition. although i had to take 2 gramer classes before i took college level english


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

uncfesta said:


> ive actually seen that before, people are too stupid and don't see on the box do not use with dimmers(fire hazard)


This does not make people stupid. Some of these "don't use on dimmers" is located somewhere on the box that people wouldn't bother reading. You can't tell me when you buy a product you read every single label on the box do you?


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

uncfesta said:


> i had a learning disability, english was not my area. i still managed to pass college composition. although i had to take 2 gramer classes before i took college level english


English was not my subject either and nor am I great at spelling or grammar. Having a learning disability has nothing to do with capitalization and proper punctuation. Hell that is basic speaking/writing skills.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

Well I'm used to word it automatic capitalizes. I will consider it in future post


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

CanadianSparky said:


> English was not my subject either and nor am I great at spelling or grammar. Having a learning disability has nothing to do with capitalization and proper punctuation. Hell that is basic speaking/writing skills.


Apparently English was not my best subject either. I spelled light - lite. And I spelled color- Colour. But as soon as I moved to the USA the nice teacher lady down there in 1st grade straightened my ass out on it right away. She also fixed the fact that I knew some math at that age by making me go back to arithmetic like all the other kids in that Florida public school................


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

B4T; :([/QUOTE said:


> I saw your new signature and had to laugh:
> 
> The people who believe in wealth redistribution.. entitlements... and all the free programs have come out on top. ... "] Obama is borrowing $3.3 billion everyday from China to pay for the entitlements that got him elected.. when is this insanity going to stop..
> 
> You do realize that the Congress is in charge of borrowing and spending don't you?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

Back to school with the _lot_ of you!




~CS~


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

jrannis said:


> You do realize that the Congress is in charge of borrowing and spending don't you?


I'm waiting for paliamentary methods to break out here>




~CS~


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## MIKEFLASH (Apr 14, 2012)

Man you guys are bagging on him for being unlicensed and having bad grammar? Better follow him around and make sure he uses his blinker and make sure his shirts tucked in.....any thing else mom forgot to look for?


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)

clean shave....

~CS~


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## bobelectric (Feb 24, 2007)

Cleatus Clone.


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

MIKEFLASH said:


> Man you guys are bagging on him for being unlicensed and having bad grammar? Better follow him around and make sure he uses his blinker and make sure his shirts tucked in.....any thing else mom forgot to look for?


 

Rewire says you have to polish the boots.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jrannis said:


> I saw your new signature and had to laugh:
> 
> The people who believe in wealth redistribution.. entitlements... and all the free programs have come out on top. ... "] Obama is borrowing $3.3 billion everyday from China to pay for the entitlements that got him elected.. when is this insanity going to stop..
> 
> You do realize that the Congress is in charge of borrowing and spending don't you?


Yes and when you say congress that includes the senate.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

uncfesta said:


> just because i cant spell and am not wasting my time making sure im using proper gramer dos not mean im illiterate


No, but it does make you look like an idiot. Aren't you concerned about that?

At least use spell check.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Apprentices do side work all the time. I'm not overly concerned about that. This is, however, a contractor's website. It's not the place for an apprentice to be asking for advice on side jobs.

There are apprentices who participate in these forums who are looking for career advice or have technical questions they can't get answered on the jobsite. I think that's great; the seasoned guys can offer some mentorship. But asking for advice on side jobs? Gimme a break.


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## JRaef (Mar 23, 2009)

Big John said:


> Nah. Smoke coming from the fixture itself is a problem with the fixture. Assuming it lights, I wouldn't even open the switch.
> 
> In this order, I'd check:
> Dusty lamps
> ...


Also:
She has a cleaning person and told them to clean the chandelier because she was having company over for the holiday. Cleaning person used Pledge or something like it and got it on the bulbs, it has to burn off now. 

You'd be surprised how many people don't make the connection to heat in the lamp and stuff you put on them. In college I worked at a hardware store, people used to bring in those little flame shaped bulbs all the time saying they smoked. I think its because on regular bulbs, you have a lamp shade or someting that prevents you from seeing it, but when you buy those little flame shaped bulbs, its BECAUSE you are going to see them, so people shine them up. I remember one guy had used ArmorAll on his bulbs because it made them look shiner in the chandelier. Couldn't figure out why they were smoking because he knew ArmorAll had silicone in it and silicone was heat resistant...


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

Troll thread..... i knew it...


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Holiday cleaning with a feather duster left something on the open bulbs.

I had one last week where smoke was (presumably) coming from the (open) bulbs in the bathroom sconces.

The housekeeper noticed the smoke in the bathroom while she was cleaning and HO witnessed it. I got there a few hours later and saw nothing. I popped out a 4" recessed trim and two exhaust fan covers but couldn't detect and smell. 

There was no attic access and, in my observation, the remodeling of the high dollar 1940's house was done professionally.

I left all the lights on for about a half hour while I tested power on the entire second floor. Eventually I noticed a _very faint_ burning smell but it was not like the smell of wiring, more like the smell of a space heater when you first turn it on and it burns off whatever is on the element.

After some consultation, my opinion was that it came from some cleaning product in conjunction with a feather duster used on the open lamps of the sconces. The same is likely with your chandelier.




> if you were me i bet you would do do it to, and i bet you did it when you were where im at.


I would have.




> it turned out it was one of the light sockets burnt up. she wants me to put a new chandelier up. nice easy job quick 50 bucks,


Antler pics or it didn't happen.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> if its on a bigger breaker a short wont trip it. if the breaker is not working properly it wont trip.


You're super wrong.

Even if for whatever reason the 15a breaker feeding the branch circuit is defective and unable to trip, a dead short will draw current until it trips whatever comes next, in this case the main. If the main is unable to trip, it'll draw until it trips the fuse at the padmount, and so on and so on. Since this basic concept escaped you, I would say it's very safe to assume you are far from qualified from taking on this service call.

I'm all for scab work, but it's obvious to me that even though you claim to have 4 years in the trade, you're far from ready to work on your own.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

jza said:


> You're super wrong.
> 
> Even if for whatever reason the 15a breaker feeding the branch circuit is defective and unable to trip, a dead short will draw current until it trips whatever comes next, in this case the main. If the main is unable to trip, it'll draw until it trips the fuse at the padmount, and so on and so on. Since this basic concept escaped you, I would say it's very safe to assume you are far from qualified from taking on this service call.
> 
> I'm all for scab work, but it's obvious to me that even though you claim to have 4 years in the trade, you're far from ready to work on your own.


I say its a troll .....


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## chicken steve (Mar 22, 2011)




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## LegacyofTroy (Feb 14, 2011)

captkirk said:


> I say its a troll .....


Breakers don't detect smoke, the also cannot tell how hot conductor gets..... Ask your boss how to do it


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

LegacyofTroy said:


> Breakers don't detect smoke, the also cannot tell how hot conductor gets..... Ask your boss how to do it


Lol.......


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

i did, he said you all are hypocrites and as far as the breaker not tripping he agrees with what i said. he also said that it was a wast of my time posting on here and that i should have called him and asked him and saved me from listing to your bs. he also said he never once seen a main breaker trip do to a short in a branch circuit. he also said that most likely more than half of you are retired because if you were working you wouldn't be wasting your time giving me **** and your facts would be more accurate.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

i will take a few pictures when i replace the fixture this weekend


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> i did, he said you all are hypocrites and as far as the breaker not tripping he agrees with what i said. he also said that it was a wast of my time posting on here and that i should have called him and asked him and saved me from listing to your bs. he also said he never once seen a main breaker trip do to a short in a branch circuit. he also said that most likely more than half of you are retired because if you were working you wouldn't be wasting your time giving me **** and your facts would be more accurate.


Who is he?:blink:


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

and thank you to the people who actually where helpful and gave me the info i asked for. i was simply asking about something i haven't seen, and yet you guys manage to make me the ass hole. All i was trying to do was learn something out of it, witch i did. i also thought it would be a good topic


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

Doesn't mater who he is, im not putting his name on this site after i said i work on my own allot. especially after i was told i could lose credit for those hours


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> and thank you to the people who actually where helpful and gave me the info i asked for. i was simply asking about something i haven't seen, and yet you guys manage to make me the ass hole. All i was trying to do was learn something out of it, witch i did. i also thought it would be a good topic


You got your answer pretty early in the thread. After that you received some advice. 
Calling people hypocritical or lazy didn't add anything. 

Why stir the pot, take the answer, advice and the lesson learned and move on.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> and thank you to the people who actually where helpful and gave me the info i asked for. i was simply asking about something i haven't seen, and yet you guys manage to make me the ass hole. All i was trying to do was learn something out of it, witch i did. i also thought it would be a good topic


Well if there are 94 posts in the thread then it must have been a good topic:laughing:

And see you did learn something after all.:thumbsup:


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

somehow people mange to turn a good thing into a bad thing


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

uncfesta said:


> i did, he said you all are hypocrites and as far as the breaker not tripping he agrees with what i said. he also said that it was a wast of my time posting on here and that i should have called him and asked him and saved me from listing to your bs. he also said he never once seen a main breaker trip do to a short in a branch circuit. he also said that most likely more than half of you are retired because if you were working you wouldn't be wasting your time giving me **** and your facts would be more accurate.



Well, he was wrong.

1. All of us aren't hypocrites.
2. Most of us aren't retired, just bored.
3. If you learned *anything*, you didn't waste your time.
4. I have seen a 200A main trip from a 120V dead short. I've also seen a 200A fuse blow from the same thing. I don't know why but I know it can happen.

And...this is the internet. Get used to people giving you ****.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> Doesn't mater who he is, im not putting his name on this site after i said i work on my own allot. especially after i was told i could lose credit for those hours


I did not ask for his name..:laughing:

Is he your boss?


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

Wirenuting said:


> You got your answer pretty early in the thread. After that you received some advice.
> Calling people hypocritical or lazy didn't add anything.
> 
> Why stir the pot, take the answer, advice and the lesson learned and move on.


good point, definitely will do next time.


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## KDC (Oct 19, 2012)

Just because he hasn't seen it, doesn't mean that others haven't. I've seen a short blow a fuse at the disconnect, trip the breaker in the sub panel the disconnect was fed from, and trip the breaker that fed the sub panel. All due to a short. The conductors actually rattled in the pipe. 

On the other hand, I've seen a transformer in a unit heater go up in smoke because the contactor coil had a short, and the 5A fuse didn't blow, nor did anything trip back at the MCC. 

Plenty of things can go wrong, and the order they happen depend greatly on the tolerances of the devices in the circuit.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> I did not ask for his name..:laughing:
> 
> Is he your boss?


yes, he is my boss


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

KDC said:


> Just because he hasn't seen it, doesn't mean that others haven't. I've seen a short blow a fuse at the disconnect, trip the breaker in the sub panel the disconnect was fed from, and trip the breaker that fed the sub panel. All due to a short. The conductors actually rattled in the pipe.
> 
> On the other hand, I've seen a transformer in a unit heater go up in smoke because the contactor coil had a short, and the 5A fuse didn't blow, nor did anything trip back at the MCC.
> 
> Plenty of things can go wrong, and the order they happen depend greatly on the tolerances of the devices in the circuit.


Look at the GFCI receptacle I just posted. 
It was still working when it was pulled today.

Should be an episode of the twilight zone.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

uncfesta said:


> yes, he is my boss


Okay

Now read post #13 you said you are only being paid $15 per hour as a fourth year apprentice.
That means your boss is either a cheap mother or he does not know how to sell electrical work at a premium price,But he told you your wasting your time posting and reading here,when in fact of he read some of the business threads here he could learn how to charge three times as much as he does now.So you can listen to him and get chump change pay till he finds someone cheaper or you can make this place where you can learn so when you get your Master license you will already have a good idea on how to open your own shop.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> i did, he said you all are hypocrites and as far as the breaker not tripping he agrees with what i said. he also said that it was a wast of my time posting on here and that i should have called him and asked him and saved me from listing to your bs. he also said he never once seen a main breaker trip do to a short in a branch circuit. he also said that most likely more than half of you are retired because if you were working you wouldn't be wasting your time giving me **** and your facts would be more accurate.


So if the branch circuit breaker doesn't trip (for whatever reason, it's defective), what stops the dead short from drawing enough current to trip the main? After all, the amperage from every branch circuit is drawn through the main first, so if the 15a CB doesn't trip, something else will. 

But please, prove me wrong, call your boss if you have to.

I'd be embarrassed to call myself a 4th year apprentice if I still had to call my boss and ask him basic questions like you do.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

HARRY304E said:


> Okay
> 
> Now read post #13 you said you are only being paid $15 per hour as a fourth year apprentice.
> That means your boss is either a cheap mother or he does not know how to sell electrical work at a premium price,But he told you your wasting your time posting and reading here,when in fact of he read some of the business threads here he could learn how to charge three times as much as he does now.So you can listen to him and get chump change pay till he finds someone cheaper or you can make this place where you can learn so when you get your Master license you will already have a good idea on how to open your own shop.


He has also stated elsewhere that he is a first year apprentice. Ignore this guy.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

i got 2 years work experience through school. they credited me 4000 work hours through the apprenticeship program. i got extra work hrs because i was working in a shop for an inturnship at the same time. then in college they gave me another 1000 for lab. when i posted that i ment first year working out in the trade for a company. i have my 8000 hrs i need to take my journeymen exam. so when i take my journeymen exam and pass i will proudly post a picture of it on the site.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

uncfesta said:


> i did, he said you all are hypocrites and as far as the breaker not tripping he agrees with what i said. he also said that it was a wast of my time posting on here and that i should have called him and asked him and saved me from listing to your bs. *he also said he never once seen a main breaker trip do to a short in a branch circuit.* he also said that most likely more than half of you are retired because if you were working you wouldn't be wasting your time giving me **** and your facts would be more accurate.


I have on several occasions over my 13 yrs doing this line of work. Your boss get out in the field much?


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## Hawkrod (Mar 19, 2012)

99cents said:


> He has also stated elsewhere that he is a first year apprentice. Ignore this guy.


Not to defend him but that is a really old post and he also stated he has not had much OJT as he was in a school program for 2 years. The reality is he is well under 2 years actually working. That being said, some of his posts do scare me!


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

uncfesta said:


> i got 2 years work experience through school. they credited me 4000 work hours through the apprenticeship program. i got extra work hrs because i was working in a shop for an inturnship at the same time. then in college they gave me another 1000 for lab. when i posted that i ment first year working out in the trade for a company. i have my 8000 hrs i need to take my journeymen exam. so when i take my journeymen exam and pass i will proudly post a picture of it on the site.


There are these 2 things called "book smart" and "street smart". If you have not been out in the field too long then you can only rely on your "book smart". Books are good, but they can't cover everything you learn in the field.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

hes been in business for 20 years. he does mostly pools and generators, and rewires. we do additions and new houses, but not as much because he says theirs no money to be made. he has 10 employees working for him he gets enough work to keep us all working but not as much this time of year. he mostly collects money and gets jobs. he showed me pictures of damage done by shorted wires, and he said you know why this happened, because the breaker didn't trip, and a short draws allot of current but not enough to trip the main or the branch circuit breaker


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

uncfesta said:


> hes been in business for 20 years. he does mostly pools and generators, and rewires. we do additions and new houses, but not as much because he says theirs no money to be made. he has 10 employees working for him he gets enough work to keep us all working but not as much this time of year. he mostly collects money and gets jobs. he showed me pictures of damage done by shorted wires, and he said you know why this happened, because the breaker didn't trip, and *a short draws allot of current but not enough to trip the main or the branch circuit breaker*


That blanket statement does not cover all situations. Your boss seems to have a closed mind, meaning he thinks everything happens the same way only he has seen.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

he never said its not possible, just that he has never seen it


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

uncfesta said:


> hes been in business for 20 years. he does mostly pools and generators, and rewires. we do additions and new houses, but not as much because he says theirs no money to be made. he has 10 employees working for him he gets enough work to keep us all working but not as much this time of year. he mostly collects money and gets jobs. he showed me pictures of damage done by shorted wires, and he said you know why this happened, because the breaker didn't trip, and a short draws allot of current but not enough to trip the main or the branch circuit breaker


I have an 85 yr old boss who has been doing electrical work since , hell , I guess 20? or if he served, then since he was 30. Anyway, I advise him of newer code, but he has still forgotten more than I currently know.


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## KDC (Oct 19, 2012)

A short, by definition is a low resistance abnormal connection. Most of the time they're brief because they trip the over current protection, or sometimes burn themselves open. 

A high resistance abnormal condition results in heating, can go on for some time because they never draw enough current to result in tripping the protection.


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## cguillas (Jun 25, 2009)

Fourth year apprentice is nothing. I've met a couple of tenth year apprentices.


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

cguillas said:


> Fourth year apprentice is nothing. I've met a couple of tenth year apprentices.


They were held back?


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

aftershockews said:


> There are these 2 things called "book smart" and "street smart". If you have not been out in the field too long then you can only rely on your "book smart". Books are good, but they can't cover everything you learn in the field.


Uncfesta is neither. 



uncfesta said:


> he showed me pictures of damage done by shorted wires, and he said you know why this happened, because the breaker didn't trip, and a short draws allot of current but not enough to trip the main or the branch circuit breaker


Okay, so if you short the power and neutral together, aside from the branch circuit CB, what stops it from drawing over 200 amps (enough to trip a main)?


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

jza said:


> Uncfesta is neither.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so if you short the power and neutral together, aside from the branch circuit CB, what stops it from drawing over 200 amps (enough to trip a main)?


Ohh, oohhh pick me, pick me.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

So, everything aside, I'm just curious what the problem turned out to be? Then you can go back to getting your balls broken. :whistling2:


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## aftershockews (Dec 22, 2012)

Big John said:


> So, everything aside, I'm just curious what the problem turned out to be? Then you can go back to getting your balls broken. :whistling2:


You did not read the whole thread.


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## Big John (May 23, 2010)

aftershockews said:


> You did not read the whole thread.


 For very good reason. This thread is a mess.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

it was one of the light sockets. i thought the post was a good topic and i learned a few things, but people have to pick on me and ruin it for everyone. i cant even believe this post is still going.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

I can. You know so little, it's so funny that even the moderators haven't shut the party down.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

jza said:


> I can. You know so little, it's so funny that even the moderators haven't shut the party down.


ok if the breaker always trips, then why do wires cook up when shorted and burn houses down. when wires make contact they arc and cause fires


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

and mayb instead of saying i no so litle its funny. why dont u corect me then. all i was saying was that breakers dont always trip, witch is definatly 100% true. i have seen it and like someone said, theirs low resistence shorts and high resistence shorts, witch one is more lickly in a home.


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## Deep Cover (Dec 8, 2012)

Maybe people would take you more seriously if you at least attempted to post like an adult instead of a 12 year old girl texting her BFF.



uncfesta said:


> and mayb instead of saying i no so litle its funny. why dont u corect me then. all i was saying was that breakers dont always trip, witch is definatly 100% true. i have seen it and like someone said, theirs low resistence shorts and high resistence shorts, witch one is more lickly in a home.


This ^^^ is hardly readable.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> and mayb instead of saying i no so litle its funny. why dont u corect me then. all i was saying was that breakers dont always trip, witch is definatly 100% true. i have seen it and like someone said, theirs low resistence shorts and high resistence shorts, witch one is more lickly in a home.


I don't know what a high _resistence_ short is.

I have however heard of the high resistance variety.


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> ok if the breaker always trips, then why do wires cook up when shorted and burn houses down. when wires make contact they arc and cause fires


A short and an arcing fault are two complete different things, genius.


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## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> i have seen it and like someone said, theirs low resistence shorts and high resistence shorts, witch one is more lickly in a home.


You tell us and explain why. :thumbsup:


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## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

Vintage Sounds said:


> You tell us and explain why. :thumbsup:


 
I'm getting as bad as Eric. I Just want him to use the word "lickly" in a sentence


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## jefft110 (Jul 7, 2010)

Best thread of the year.


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## ce2two (Oct 4, 2008)

The guy installs :laughing: troubleshooting ,he has yet to take class:no:


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

I just can't take a guy who can barely form a sentence seriously.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

jza said:


> I don't know what a high _resistence_ short is.
> 
> I have however heard of the high resistance variety.


i was going by someones post on page 6


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> i was going by someones post on page 6


Just admit you know nothing and you were wrong from the get go.


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## uncfesta (Feb 24, 2011)

cant take someone seriously who cant form a full sentence. what are you the grammar police. I'm typing a reply on a forum online and wasting my time because of people like you. Do us all a favor and get over yourself.


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## CanadianSparky (May 10, 2011)

uncfesta said:


> cant take someone seriously who cant form a full sentence. what are you the grammar police. I'm typing a reply on a forum online and wasting my time because of people like you. Do us all a favor and get over yourself.


Why!?!?! I know I am great there is nothing to get over!

Although your comment there was a little better than previous. Good job mate!


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

uncfesta said:


> cant take someone seriously who cant form a full sentence. what are you the grammar police. I'm typing a reply on a forum online and wasting my time because of people like you. Do us all a favor and get over yourself.


Everyone else seems to form proper sentences.

You're the odd man out here. Learn to spell, it's very important.


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