# PVC service mast



## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

I have a service that I need to change and I want to use a PVC mast as the strike is attached to the side of the house. - I did some research and I don't think a PVC TA is rated for use with a rigid conduit hub. - I am thinking, but haven't tried it, that I could use a rigid coupling and possibly a PVC FA to make the connection. Anyone ever done this? (I have never this before.) - I have always used Rigid conduit for a service mast but see no need for that here. Thanks in advance.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

What research led you to that conclusion? I've done plenty of PVC TA's to hubs and never had an issue, or even heard of it. Do you have some catalog page somewhere?


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

Switched said:


> What research led you to that conclusion? I've done plenty of PVC TA's to hubs and never had an issue, or even heard of it. Do you have some catalog page somewhere?


I was in the middle of doing a job and I noticed that a TA wasn't fitting into my conduit hub very well. - That got me thinking and I just googled it. (I was in the middle of having to get the job done so I didn't have time to get any definite answers but, from what I read and from the way the TA was fitting into the hub, it seemed like there might be a problem with it so I just stuck a piece of rigid in the hub and kept on going.) ... Somewhere, I did read that the PVC TA really is not rated for that use. I think I read someone, somewhere had an inspector call him on in. I was really cranking on that TA myself and wasn't able to get more than half the threads into the conduit. I didn't want it to break so I just went to rigid.


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## 360max (Jun 10, 2011)

....


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

360max said:


> [/QUOTE
> 
> I'm not sure what the picture is for. I am talking about coming out of the meter base with a tapered hub to PVC. Hmmm... not sure if I am missing some kind of joke here. Come on, don't mess with slow people like this; have a heart. :jester:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

PVC male threads are for locknuts.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

This came from an old ECMag article... 

Many electricians overlook the fact that hubs are only intended for use with threaded conduit, such as rigid metal conduit (RMC) or intermediate metal conduit (IMC). The hubs are designed with a tapered thread to match the tapered thread requirement of RMC or IMC of a 1-in-16 taper ( inch per foot taper) as covered in 342.28 for IMC and in 344.28 for rigid metal conduit. Connection to hubs using other than rigid metal conduit or IMC results in two issues that must be addressed. The first issue deals with connections in a wet location, the second deals with proper grounding paths, and while these are seemingly separate issues, the two issues are actually interrelated. We will deal with the wet location first and then cover the grounding issues second.

I know we are not talking about grounding but the first part should still hold true. 

Link to the full article. http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/fittings-hubs


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Paul S. said:


> This came from an old ECMag article...
> 
> Many electricians overlook the fact that hubs are only intended for use with threaded conduit, such as rigid metal conduit (RMC) or intermediate metal conduit (IMC). The hubs are designed with a tapered thread to match the tapered thread requirement of RMC or IMC of a 1-in-16 taper ( inch per foot taper) as covered in 342.28 for IMC and in 344.28 for rigid metal conduit. Connection to hubs using other than rigid metal conduit or IMC results in two issues that must be addressed. The first issue deals with connections in a wet location, the second deals with proper grounding paths, and while these are seemingly separate issues, the two issues are actually interrelated. We will deal with the wet location first and then cover the grounding issues second.
> 
> ...


Yeah, just found that through the MH forum. Seems it has to just do with the taper of the threads.... Oh' well..... The jobs have already been passed!:laughing:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

I don't know what this means:

_"I want to use a PVC mast as the strike is attached to the side of the house_

What's a "strike"?


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> I don't know what this means:
> 
> _"I want to use a PVC mast as the strike is attached to the side of the house_
> 
> What's a "strike"?


It's where the service drop attaches to the house. We call it a strike knob, or something like that.

https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...t-On-Type/Nichols/315/product.aspx?zpid=43950


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

I think I'll try an FA and a 2" rigid coupling; then check with the inspector if it fits good. - Much better to have it done right and acceptable the first time if possible. That's what I aim for.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

Just came across this too... Very well then. 

All male threaded fittings and nipples have only been investigated for use
with locknuts.
Fittings with internal female threads (e.g., hubs, conduit bodies, couplings)
have only been investigated for use with threaded rigid conduit.

To be compliant with the UL listing, you can not use any fitting with male threads with a rigid coupling. To meet the UL listing, if for instance you want to connect EMT and PVC without using a box, you use a EMT-to-female-thread fitting, a short length of threaded rigid conduit, and a PVC-to-female-thread fitting.

Don't shoot the messenger. I came across this and asked a UL engineer who confirmed the above. I also brought it up at the last yearly seminar of the Ohio Chapter annual seminar and sat back and watched the sparks fly.

Link: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=146729


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## FF301 (Jan 12, 2014)

IF you put any Metal parts in the PVC run your inspector will likely say it needs to be bonded


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Paul S. said:


> It's where the service drop attaches to the house. We call it a strike knob, or something like that.
> 
> https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...t-On-Type/Nichols/315/product.aspx?zpid=43950


Okay.

I'm confused. If your point of attachment is on the house, why not PVC all the way?


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

FF301 said:


> IF you put any Metal parts in the PVC run your inspector will likely say it needs to be bonded


An EMT/rigid combo is better.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

FF301 said:


> IF you put any Metal parts in the PVC run your inspector will likely say it needs to be bonded


There won't be any metal after the meter base other than the bolt that holds the weather head on. - But I do understand where you are coming from and that makes sense to me.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> Okay.
> 
> I'm confused. If your point of attachment is on the house, why not PVC all the way?


All I'm concerned with here is from the meter base on the side of a home up to the service point or point of connection. (Overhead service.) I was wondering how I could transition from a meter hub to PVC.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> An EMT/rigid combo is better.


I do agree that EMT is better, but I don't have a way to bend 2" EMT on site.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

How far is the run?

If it is a stick or two then you may be a wash after waisting a bunch of time trying to solve a problem that could have easily been solved by just using GRC, and charging the customer for it.

Good question though, never gave the thought to the transition of it, as I never gave thought to the taper being different and not compliant.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Are you just talking about going into the meter socket? You guys don't have PVC meter hubs?


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

Switched said:


> How far is the run?
> 
> If it is a stick or two then you may be a wash after waisting a bunch of time trying to solve a problem that could have easily been solved by just using GRC, and charging the customer for it.
> 
> Good question though, never gave the thought to the transition of it, as I never gave thought to the taper being different and not compliant.


Thanks for your input. - I did learn something here tonight. It's a matter of cost in this case. It's going to be cheaper and easier (less weight and easier to cut) to run a piece of 2" PVC up the side of a house rather than a stick of rigid. - This is something I will, most likely, run into again so I might as well find out about it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Paul S. said:


> I do agree that EMT is better, but I don't have a way to bend 2" EMT on site.


Factory bend.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> Factory bend.


Not as practical in this case especially when you add in the cost of 2" raintight couplings.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Paul S. said:


> Not as practical in this case especially when you add in the cost of 2" raintight couplings.


The big cost in a service is labor. The difference in price between PVC and EMT is meaningless.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Paul S. said:


> It's where the service drop attaches to the house. We call it a strike knob, or something like that.
> 
> https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...t-On-Type/Nichols/315/product.aspx?zpid=43950


Strike was a new one on me.

Regardless of what type insulator is used it's normally just referred to as the POA point of attachment.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> The big cost in a service is labor. The difference in price between PVC and EMT is meaningless.


I think I may stand corrected here. I just looked up the price of a 2" EMT raintight coupling and it's about 5 or 6 bucks. - I have purchased, and keep on my van, a 2" rigid raintight coupling that I paid more like $40.00 or $50.00 for... I guess there's a big difference between an EMT coupling and a rigid coupling. I'll try to do what makes the most sense and is economical.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Strike was a new one on me.
> 
> Regardless of what type insulator is used it's normally just referred to as the POA point of attachment.


There you go... Thanks; you have the terminology correct. P.S. Keep making those libtards cry! Hit'em with facts... It's just that easy.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Strike was a new one on me.
> 
> Regardless of what type insulator is used it's normally just referred to as the POA point of attachment.


I call it a strike also.... But I am originally from the Northwest.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Strike was a new one on me.
> 
> Regardless of what type insulator is used it's normally just referred to as the POA point of attachment.


This whole thing confuses me, Mech. Isn't a mast a piece of rigid pipe that pokes through the roof? That's where I got befuddled plus the "strike" thing.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Paul S. said:


> There won't be any metal after the meter base other than the bolt that holds the weather head on. - But I do understand where you are coming from and that makes sense to me.


The thought is if you put a RMC nipple into the hub on the meter pan than that nipple should be bonded.

I understand what you are saying here but I have never seen this done before.

Always seen the pvc attached to the meter pan with a pvc hub or with a threaded hub and a male thread adapter.

Carlon 2" PVC meter hub
Model # MHUBA-200 | Store SKU # 1000184208


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

99cents said:


> This whole thing confuses me, Mech. Isn't a mast a piece of rigid pipe that pokes through the roof? That's where I got befuddled plus the "strike" thing.


Not sure, you might be right. I am calling the conduit run from the top of the meter base to the top of the house, just under the soffit, a mast. I'm not sure if there is a different terminology for a "through the roof" mast. - Sorry for the confusion. - In our area, if you use a through the roof mast and attach the service drop to the mast then you have to use a minimum of 2" rigid.... Anyway, I hope this clears things up a bit. Thanks all for the help. It's getting to be time to go here. Have a great evening.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> This whole thing confuses me, Mech. Isn't a mast a piece of rigid pipe that pokes through the roof? That's where I got befuddled plus the "strike" thing.


Some guys call a service riser a mast no matter what.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Some guys call a service riser a mast no matter what.


Clear as mud  .


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> This whole thing confuses me, Mech. Isn't a mast a piece of rigid pipe that pokes through the roof? That's where I got befuddled plus the "strike" thing.


The issue of the threaded adapter is not something I have heard any problem with in the past. I'd use a pvc hub if possible but have done it the other way with out failing in the past.


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## Paul S. (Sep 8, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The thought is if you put a RMC nipple into the hub on the meter pan than that nipple should be bonded.
> 
> I understand what you are saying here but I have never seen this done before.
> 
> ...


I'm looking for this on my supplier's website and can't find it. - I'll have to ask about it.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Just looked on the Home Depot site, pvc hubs are less than $7.

Lowes also has them.


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## FF301 (Jan 12, 2014)

Does it have to be in conduit ?
Can you use SE Cable.


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

FF301 said:


> Does it have to be in conduit ?
> Can you use SE Cable.


It's been a while but I think WAC (Washington's Code) doesn't allow SE Cable. We can't use it in Cali either.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Switched said:


> It's been a while but I think WAC (Washington's Code) doesn't allow SE Cable. We can't use it in Cali either.


Bravo for any location that doesn't allow it.:thumbsup:


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## telsa (May 22, 2015)

Switched said:


> It's been a while but I think WAC (Washington's Code) doesn't allow SE Cable. We can't use it in Cali either.


They are both EUSERC turf.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

360max said:


> ....


No need to hurt yourself with these long worded exhaustive posts that contain so much in depth thought and knowledge.


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## lightman (Oct 14, 2015)

I've never had trouble putting a pvc male adaptor into a hub and not passing inspection. Its standard practice here. The pvc hub is interesting, but no one here uses them.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lightman said:


> I've never had trouble putting a pvc male adaptor into a hub and not passing inspection. Its standard practice here. The pvc hub is interesting, but no one here uses them.


We have this rule up here in the frozen north:

_Female threaded PVC adapters shall be used together with a metal conduit nipple to terminate at threaded conduit entries in metal enclosures._


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

99cents said:


> We have this rule up here in the frozen north:
> 
> _Female threaded PVC adapters shall be used together with a metal conduit nipple to terminate at threaded conduit entries in metal enclosures._


Is that CEC or one of the various safety codes you guys go by?

It makes sense to me for keeping as much a water tight seal as possible but the most common way here is just a pvc male thread adapter.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Is that CEC or one of the various safety codes you guys go by?
> 
> It makes sense to me for keeping as much a water tight seal as possible but the most common way here is just a pvc male thread adapter.


It's CEC.


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Paul S. said:


> I think I'll try an FA and a 2" rigid coupling; then check with the inspector if it fits good. - Much better to have it done right and acceptable the first time if possible. That's what I aim for.


That is Code for Canada


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Largely SE cable here. The world is not going to end. If you would like to install a riser can. The utility installs the portion from the meter up. I have heard about the TA not being listed to be used in hub provided with most meters. I don't think I have ever seen a plastic one like that in the picture on the shelf, but certainly could be ordered. It's not something that's big issue here at the moment. I imagine it could be made to be, but why.

Now that you mention it, the weatherproof SE connectors that we all put into that same hub is probably not technically correct either...


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## Signal1 (Feb 10, 2016)

nrp3 said:


> Largely SE cable here. The world is not going to end. If you would like to install a riser can. The utility installs the portion from the meter up. I have heard about the TA not being listed to be used in hub provided with most meters. I don't think I have ever seen a plastic one like that in the picture on the shelf, but certainly could be ordered. It's not something that's big issue here at the moment. I imagine it could be made to be, but why.
> 
> *Now that you mention it, the weatherproof SE connectors that we all put into that same hub is probably not technically correct either...*


Good point. Done it 100's of times though.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

The thing would be whether those Carlon hubs fit the Milbank sockets we typically get from the utility. The bolt pattern that is. I'll have to look that up. Thing is what do you do with the SE connectors... For us, that's owned by the utility, so if they aren't concerned, neither am I. May be something to give to our sponsors at Milbank and see what they say.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

This is a typical PVC service up here in the "Great White North"

http://www.datawisesolutions.ca/~navyguypics/PVC_100_Amp_Service.JPG

It is pretty much the standard for anything from 30 to 200 amps.

Edit: Not sure why the pic is sideways.

Cheers

John


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## electricguy (Mar 22, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> This is a typical PVC service up here in the "Great White North"
> 
> http://www.datawisesolutions.ca/~navyguypics/PVC_100_Amp_Service.JPG
> 
> ...


 is that a pvc hub


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Yes, it is. I was actually trying to find a pic of a 2-gang meter where we had two hubs coming off the top. Did that some 10 years ago...I guess I did not keep / take any pics from back then.

Cheers

John


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## Switched (Dec 23, 2012)

Navyguy said:


> This is a typical PVC service up here in the "Great White North"
> 
> http://www.datawisesolutions.ca/~navyguypics/PVC_100_Amp_Service.JPG
> 
> ...


First sideways panels now sideways homes.... You Canuks!


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## Semi-Ret Electrician (Nov 10, 2011)

99cents said:


> We have this rule up here in the frozen north:
> 
> _Female threaded PVC adapters shall be used together with a metal conduit nipple to terminate at threaded conduit entries in metal enclosures._


Every time I've seen a metal pipe (tapered thread) screwed into a female adapter, it split the adapter.

Maybe it's different in the "frozen north".


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Every time I've seen a metal pipe (tapered thread) screwed into a female adapter, it split the adapter.
> 
> Maybe it's different in the "frozen north".


I agree with you there, where as when you screw a male adapter (NSST) into a hub the thread will stop at the shoulder of the adapter.

I don't believe I've ever seen the female adapter/GRC nipple configuration in use.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> Yes, it is. I was actually trying to find a pic of a 2-gang meter where we had two hubs coming off the top. Did that some 10 years ago...I guess I did not keep / take any pics from back then.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John


I zoomed in for those that want to see.


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

Semi-Ret Electrician said:


> Every time I've seen a metal pipe (tapered thread) screwed into a female adapter, it split the adapter.
> 
> Maybe it's different in the "frozen north".


 
I can't say that I have actually done one, but that was a common approach back when the round meter bases were common (slightly before my time) and I suspect PVC risers were a relatively new thing. Today we still see a 11/4" or 2" close nipple screwed into a FA then glued on to the riser. Not sure why, except that the metal hub is part of the meter base, so perhaps other EC's save a couple of $ by buying a close nipple and a FA vice a PVC hub... don't know. The close nipple is mechanically bonded to the meter base through the four screws.

When making a transition from PVC to metal, we are still required to use a female adapter (FA) (I don't recall the code rule); I think that is pretty common on both sides of the border... If you can zoom in near the floor you might be able to make out the FA. Like I said I think this is common on both sides of the border.










Cheers

John


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> When making a transition from PVC to metal, we are still required to use a female adapter (FA) (I don't recall the code rule); I think that is pretty common on both sides of the border... Like I said I think this is common on both sides of the border.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John


There really aren't many other options. 

If you put a male adapter on the pvc you'd need a coupling between the pvc and an EMT or other connector.


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## HackWork (Oct 2, 2009)

I can't imagine how many new meters I've installed and they never complained about threading a PVC connector into a metal meter hub. 

I always use some PVC cement on the connector threads before threading it in. That melts the threads just enough to allow you to thread the connector all the way in and it seals it very well.

Yes, I call them PVC connectors instead of male adapters.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

HackWork said:


> I can't imagine how many new meters I've installed and they never complained about threading a PVC connector into a metal meter hub.
> 
> I always use some PVC cement on the connector threads before threading it in. That melts the threads just enough to allow you to thread the connector all the way in and it seals it very well.
> 
> Yes, I call them PVC connectors instead of male adapters.


Oh I fully agree on screwing the pvc adapter/connector into the hub directly.

Male adapter sounds more like a plumbing term when you think about it.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Signal1 said:


> Good point. Done it 100's of times though.


And I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.


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## jbfan (Jan 22, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> This is a typical PVC service up here in the "Great White North"
> 
> http://www.datawisesolutions.ca/~navyguypics/PVC_100_Amp_Service.JPG
> 
> ...


It goes along with the side ways panels!:jester:


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

HackWork said:


> I can't imagine how many new meters I've installed and they never complained about threading a PVC connector into a metal meter hub.
> 
> I always use some PVC cement on the connector threads before threading it in. That melts the threads just enough to allow you to thread the connector all the way in and it seals it very well.
> 
> Yes, I call them PVC connectors instead of male adapters.


 
I think the correct technical term is Terminal Adapter (TA) - do a search on PVC Terminal Adapter and that is what it comes up with. I know the part number has a TA in it... so I suspect that is somewhat legitimate.

Cheers

John


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## Navyguy (Mar 15, 2010)

I know we sort of beat this thread up, but I purposely took a close up of a service that we did today to show the PVC Hub that Mech zoomed in on in another post.










Some guys will cut the bell end off; I like to use a small piece of pipe and make the bell as close to the hub as possible. Not that either is an issue, but I feel that the bell helps shed the water from the hub a bit better. Regardless there is no code requirement to do it either way.

Cheers

John


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## Skipbayless (May 19, 2014)

Here when we run PVC risers, with metal hubs, our inspectors requires we silicone or use plumber's tape on the threads of the pvc connector.


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## sbrn33 (Mar 15, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> The thought is if you put a RMC nipple into the hub on the meter pan than that nipple should be bonded.
> 
> I understand what you are saying here but I have never seen this done before.
> 
> ...


I have never seen a PVC hub in my life. Just screw the MA into the hub and call it a day. If the inspector calls you on it they won't be around long.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

Navyguy said:


> I know we sort of beat this thread up, but I purposely took a close up of a service that we did today to show the PVC Hub that Mech zoomed in on in another post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed, like it just that way myself.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Navyguy said:


> I know we sort of beat this thread up, but I purposely took a close up of a service that we did today to show the PVC Hub that Mech zoomed in on in another post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gives it a different look than I'm used to, but who knows, I might use
this in the future. It's a minor detail, but still, nice to see other ways 
of doing things.
Thnaks,
P&L


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