# Why!?..Ckt breaker not located in bath room!



## namo (Nov 6, 2008)

Hi there,
In NEC 2008, article 240.24(E) says in dewelling units overcurrent devices shall not be located in bath rooms.why it hapens like that?.SW is there. so why not ACB?
thanks


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

namo said:


> Hi there,
> In NEC 2008, article 240.24(E) says in dewelling units overcurrent devices shall not be located in bath rooms.why it hapens like that?
> thanks


I believe the reason is because of the moisture from showers. In most commercial bathrooms the moisture isn't a problem



> SW is there. so why not ACB?


 I don't understand this.


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## Chris Kennedy (Nov 19, 2007)

namo said:


> SW is there. so why not ACB?
> thanks





electricista said:


> I don't understand this.


Must be a man thing, SW=switch, ACB=a circuit breaker.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Must be a man thing, SW=switch, ACB=a circuit breaker.


Must be... -- I did know the SW but ACB?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Air Circuit Breaker? Automatic Circuit Breaker? Autonomous? Aeromatic?


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

Chris Kennedy said:


> Must be a man thing, SW=switch, ACB=a circuit breaker.


 I didn't understand what he was talking about either.


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

william1978 said:


> I didn't understand what he was talking about either.


I guess you would have to have a mullet like this person to know what he was saying..And you wonder why we dont put breakers in bathrooms

switch- fir sure
associated circuit breaker


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## Toronto Sparky (Apr 12, 2009)

Sorta make sence to put bathroom on GFI breaker.. GFI receptacles are useless if the water gets behind the plug.. Anyone here have a w/p cover in your washroom?

As for the panel in the washroom? Goes without saying... NO! 
Sure the washroom was built around the panel..


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## KentAT (Mar 22, 2009)

namo said:


> SW is there. so why not ACB?


Huh?:blink:

shower wall...a cold bath?
stinky washcloth...a clothes bin?
sliding window...a curtain/blind?
sexy woman...add champagne (to the) bill?
stolen whirlpool...air circulating bubbles?


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Toronto Sparky said:


> As for the panel in the washroom? Goes without saying... NO!


You mean this can't be done. 

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b...NmbRs1Yg9vPhY/cC/f=0/ps=50/r=1/rx=550/ry=400/


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## seo (Oct 28, 2008)

electricista said:


> You mean this can't be done.


 It can be done but it is not code complient.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

electricista said:


> You mean this can't be done.


Obviously it can, because it has. But that don't make it right.


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## nrp3 (Jan 24, 2009)

So let me float this question, if you need to replace a panel thats in a clothes closet, can you or do you relocate it? The apartments I work on have quite few with them in the clothes closet. Lots of good old Zinsco and FPE.


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

most inspectors would cringe on that nerp3, they would make you relocate it outside but I guess it depends on the situation, you may not be able to relocate it, its up the the inspector.


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

electricista said:


> You mean this can't be done.


nice RR cista, did you clean it b4 the pic? Is that a moth or a hole in the wall above the panel? lol


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

redbeard43 said:


> nice RR cista, did you clean it b4 the pic? Is that a moth or a hole in the wall above the panel? lol


I have no idea it's not my bathroom and I sure didn't clean it. :no:


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

electricista said:


> You mean this can't be done.


 Based solely on what I can see in this picture you are not violating 240.24(E)


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

rewire said:


> Based solely on what I can see in this picture you are not violating 240.24(E)



I agree.

That said, it is probably a safe assumption that the cabinet seen to the left edge contains a sink, making this a bathroom, and those circuit breakers in violation.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I agree.
> 
> That said, it is probably a safe assumption that the cabinet seen to the left edge contains a sink, making this a bathroom, and those circuit breakers in violation.


Based on knowing when this building was built right? How do you know its not a 1930's house? Do you have a 1930 code bock to see if its actually a violation?



nrp3 said:


> So let me float this question, if you need to replace a panel thats in a clothes closet, can you or do you relocate it? The apartments I work on have quite few with them in the clothes closet. Lots of good old Zinsco and FPE.


Repairs and maintenance do not need to be brought up to current code. They only need to be maintained at the code year it was originally permitted and installed. 
So at what year did they add no panels in closets? And what year was the building originally permitted?


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## user5941 (Mar 16, 2009)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I agree.
> 
> That said, it is probably a safe assumption that the cabinet seen to the left edge contains a sink, making this a bathroom, and those circuit breakers in violation.


 I had an instuctor use a picture similar to this one on a test,the question asked what code was being violated everyone missed the answer, It taught us not to just skim through article 100


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Jeff000 said:


> Based on knowing when this building was built right? How do you know its not a 1930's house? Do you have a 1930 code bock to see if its actually a violation?........


Some of us do. :laughing:











'93 is the first NEC that prohibited OCDs in bathrooms. But I can tell you that panel was not installed in 1930.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

I can tell you that it was done within the last 5 years and it had an existing seu cable feeding the range. And yes there is a sink in the cabinet. Also, don't forget about art. 110.26(A)(1)


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Some of us do. :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know its not 1930, I replaced a 1931 panel not long ago. But it could have been replaced 5 years ago when the bathroom was updated from 1930s...??? 
You really don't have enough information from just a picture is what I was getting at.


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> You really don't have enough information from just a picture is what I was getting at.


Read my post above yours and you will have the info you need.


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## OPENFUSE (Apr 19, 2009)

In canada, its not allowed 'cos bathroom always has plumbing pipes, moisture, mirrors, cupboards etc. Just the physical limitation of it.


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

electricista said:


> I can tell you that it was done within the last 5 years and it had an existing seu cable feeding the range. And yes there is a sink in the cabinet. Also, don't forget about art. 110.26(A)(1)





electricista said:


> Read my post above yours and you will have the info you need.


Did you work on this bathroom? 
What is an seu cable?

I don't have an NEC book (Only CEC) so not sure what that code is you quoted. But at the same time if the NEC is anything like the CEC there is some rule that says an inspector can make exceptions where needed or whatever. Is said bathroom one of these exceptions? 
And at the end of the day violations make it past inspection all the time, doesn't make it any more right to do it again.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Jeff000 said:


> What is an seu cable?


Type SE, Unarmored. What we'd typically call "service cable". 

as opposed to SER, which is:

Type SE, Round. What we'd typically call "subfeed cable".


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## electricista (Jan 11, 2009)

Jeff000 said:


> Did you work on this bathroom?
> What is an seu cable?
> 
> I don't have an NEC book (Only CEC) so not sure what that code is you quoted. But at the same time if the NEC is anything like the CEC there is some rule that says an inspector can make exceptions where needed or whatever. Is said bathroom one of these exceptions?
> And at the end of the day violations make it past inspection all the time, doesn't make it any more right to do it again.



I did not work on this bathroom but I know who did. 110.26 is for work clearance. You need 36" in front of a panel unobstructed.


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## Pierre Belarge (Feb 3, 2007)

If panels/circuit breakers are not allowed in bathrooms because of wet/damp locations, how come they are permitted to be installed outside???


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## iaov (Apr 14, 2008)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I agree.
> 
> That said, it is probably a safe assumption that the cabinet seen to the left edge contains a sink, making this a bathroom, and those circuit breakers in violation.


If not this is still a clear "working clearences "violation. Nothing like having a foot in the bowl while changing out a breaker!!:no:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 22, 2007)

rewire said:


> Based solely on what I can see in this picture you are not violating 240.24(E)





JohnJ0906 said:


> I agree.
> 
> That said, it is probably a safe assumption that the cabinet seen to the left edge contains a sink, making this a bathroom, and those circuit breakers in violation.





iaov said:


> If not this is still a clear "working clearences "violation. Nothing like having a foot in the bowl while changing out a breaker!!:no:


..........


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## mickey (Apr 20, 2009)

I guess your right jefooo


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## Jeff000 (Jun 18, 2008)

Pierre Belarge said:


> If panels/circuit breakers are not allowed in bathrooms because of wet/damp locations, how come they are permitted to be installed outside???


In a proper enclosure.


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## Pierre Belarge (Feb 3, 2007)

Jeff000 said:


> In a proper enclosure.


 
I was hoping for that answer...

Okay, lets put the same breakers in the proper enclosure in a bathroom. What would be wrong with that?
There is no beating rain on a windy day or no snow piling up on the enclosure. just some moisture....


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## redbeard43 (Mar 20, 2009)

redbeard43 said:


> most inspectors would cringe on that nerp3, they would make you relocate it outside but I guess it depends on the situation, you may not be able to relocate it, its up the the inspector.


i quote myself...lmao:blink:


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Pierre Belarge said:


> I was hoping for that answer...
> 
> Okay, lets put the same breakers in the proper enclosure in a bathroom. What would be wrong with that?
> There is no beating rain on a windy day or no snow piling up on the enclosure. just some moisture....


FWIW, the bathroom exclusion didn't enter into art. 240.24 until the '93. Anyone got a '93 ROP?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

I'm old enough to say I put a few hundred load centers behind bathroom doors in days of yore. Owners liked that location. I never really thought that the probition was based on actual problems, just theoretical ones. I still run across some once in a while. All in good shape. Course I did not send in any breakers for bench testing, so maybe they only appeared to be in good shape and all that moisture that didn't really do any visable harm did some after all. NOT


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