# Point of Sale cabling



## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

I'm currently in the midst of installing a point-of-sale system, I was told by network guy to run CAT5 to all the set locations, my question is I have no experience at all installing network components. I was told to install 568B terminals on each end of cable and install a 24 patch panel in office, I have no idea what patch panel to get or if they are all the same? Any help is greatly appreciated


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

yes, that is right. 

You need to make sure you order a 568B patch panel, not A.
If you get the wrong one, **** will be all messed up. 

And make sure you get cat5 jacks, and nothing more. save your self some money

BTW, this is an industry standard for pretty much anything, unless some one lives there. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568











that is what the patch cable looks like

But the jacks will have an A and B configuration on them. Make sure you punch down to B. 

The orange and green pairs are ones that are switched.


if you look at the below jack, you can see the a and b configurations. 

the top colors being a, and the lower being B


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## gnuuser (Jan 13, 2013)

also some of the cat 5 and cat 6 connectors such as these 
http://www.suntekpc.com/htm-2/keyjack-rj45-110-punch-down-xxx-bl-series-c5e-xxx603-yellow.htm

come with the instructions in the package

(I do a lot of networking with cabling and wireless)

and its a good idea to have cable testers they can save you a l.ot of headaches.
http://www.specialized.net/Speciali...Pocket-CAT56-RJ45-COAX-Cable-Tester-7284.aspx


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

A patch panel is a block which contains numerous RJ45 ports. Patch panels are used for connecting incoming and outgoing lines of a local area network (LAN) or a telecommunication system. In a LAN the patch panel connects the networks computers to each other and any switches or hubs with patch cables. Patch panels also give the benefit of organization for a clean install.
*Features:*

24 Ports
Cat5e rated
T568A/T568B wiring scheme
Rack mount
110 terminations
Attached labels








Front









​


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

I would reccomend a visual cable tester

klein makes a nice one that they sell at home depot. 

It detects voltage, shorts, miswires, and does pots, and networks. 

It even gives the simple pass, or fail


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Just curious, what does the patch panel attach to if anything?


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> I would reccomend a visual cable tester
> 
> klein makes a nice one that they sell at home depot.
> 
> ...


Cool,I have the Ideal multimedia tester that I've had many years and never used, I guess now it will finally come to use.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

the patch panel will attach to a switch or router.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> Just curious, what does the patch panel attach to if anything?


A rack, they take up 3 RU, so keep that in mind if shopping for a rack, a small wall mounted one would do in a small store. You will need management aswell and room for the switch aswell as any PA stuff that might be installed.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

chewy said:


> A rack, they take up 3 RU, so keep that in mind if shopping for a rack, a small wall mounted one would do in a small store. You will need management aswell and room for the switch aswell as any PA stuff that might be installed.


Okay that answers my question, I was wondering if they make a wall mount or if you have to purchase a special rack to mount this thing to.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> Okay that answers my question, I was wondering if they make a wall mount or if you have to purchase a special rack to mount this thing to.


Google network enclosure racks, they make a small 12RU one thats just a U shape and swings open one side we use for consolidation points but it wont fit a switch in it.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

If you don't want to go with a rack, you can use a couple of these...everything included, no rack to buy. ( it says cat6, but they come in cat5)


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

mikeh32 said:


> the patch panel will attach to a switch or router.


As an example...


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Ty Wrapp said:


> If you don't want to go with a rack, you can use a couple of these...everything included, no rack to buy. ( it says cat6, but they come in cat5)


That looks ideal, it's going in a tiny office, thanks!


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Ty Wrapp said:


> If you don't want to go with a rack, you can use a couple of these...everything included, no rack to buy. ( it says cat6, but they come in cat5)


Any part number or specific name?


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

contact greybar, or steiner, or grainger.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

another place to buy from, is monoprice.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

By the way, off topic but why scissors in data-work vs *****, cutters, strippers?


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

GEORGE D said:


> By the way, off topic but why scissors in data-work vs *****, cutters, strippers?


much more precise. 

Data cable is a lot more sensitive. Cant go knicking it and ****

Plus the wires are a whole lot smaller, as I am sure you are finding out


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> By the way, off topic but why scissors in data-work vs *****, cutters, strippers?


I dont use them, I use midget flushcut *****.


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## UncleMike (Jan 2, 2013)

The head end for a POS system is usually located in a place with very limited space. If wall space is at a premium, the patch blocks show by Ty Wrapp are a good choice, but if it's more important to minimize protrusion from the wall, I will often use a 4 or 6-port surface mount box. The box itself is less than 1" deep, and the cables exit the jacks parallel to the wall, allowing the entire installation, including a wall mounted switch, to be mounted behind an open door if necessary.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

chewy said:


> I dont use them, I use midget flushcut *****.


I just use my Klein's or ***** too. Always use the string to strip the cables to where you're going to terminate, I pull a bit of jacket off the end to grab the string and strip it to where the end will be. This prevents shorts or nicks from strippers. The scissors are helpful to snip off excess jacket and string but not needed


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

if you have anymore questions, feel free to pm me. 

I actually specialize in POS systems engineering, and pretty much anything else POS related. Then decided to become a low voltage electrician.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> if you have anymore questions, feel free to pm me.
> 
> I actually specialize in POS systems engineering, and pretty much anything else POS related. Then decided to become a low voltage electrician.


Awesome! I really do appreciate that, this is why I love this forum!


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

On amazon they have 6u wall cabinet racks for $150. Free shipping, prime eligible.


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## chewy (May 9, 2010)

Hippie said:


> I just use my Klein's or ***** too. Always use the string to strip the cables to where you're going to terminate, I pull a bit of jacket off the end to grab the string and strip it to where the end will be. This prevents shorts or nicks from strippers. The scissors are helpful to snip off excess jacket and string but not needed


I just use a sharp knife to strip, my cables dont come with string inside them. So long as there is discolourment around the end you stripped the Systimax guy said he didnt care what we used to strip cable with.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

FlyingSparks said:


> On amazon they have 6u wall cabinet racks for $150. Free shipping, prime eligible.


Is that a good deal?


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

GEORGE D said:


> Is that a good deal?


Cablesandkits.com has a 12u wall rack for like 85, and its good quality for the price


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003K1NFY4/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1359423877&sr=8-1&pi=SL75

I could not find the cable and kits one.


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

http://www.cablesandkits.com/kendall-howard-12u-vline-fixed-wall-rack-p-4725.html

free shipping on that as well


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

It's the average price for that type of rack. It all depends on facility security and switch noise level.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

This is a good price.... $16.83
http://www.amazon.com/INTELLINET-12...&qid=1359432283&sr=8-22&keywords=patch+panels


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Ty Wrapp said:


> This is a good price.... $16.83
> http://www.amazon.com/INTELLINET-12-Port-Wall-mount-Compatible-162470/dp/B0009JGJF2/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1359432283&sr=8-22&keywords=patch+panels


Awesome find, just ordered it, thanks! That style looks to be the best option for this setup.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

GEORGE D said:


> By the way, off topic but why scissors in data-work vs *****, cutters, strippers?


Once you get used to using snips, you will wonder how you got along without them. Used for stripping off outer jacket, stripping individual conductors, trimming shiners on jacks, and on & on. It is my #1 tool.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Once you get used to using snips, you will wonder how you got along without them. Used for stripping off outer jacket, stripping individual conductors, trimming shiners on jacks, and on & on. It is my #1 tool.


Yeah unfortunately for me I never do data/network jobs, I'm truly clueless in that field. Thanks to you guys I can accomplish this small project.


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## JustinG (Sep 4, 2012)

GEORGE D said:


> Awesome find, just ordered it, thanks! That style looks to be the best option for this setup.


Be careful with that one, the reviews aren't looking that good.


After reading the reviews on this product that stated it was junk, I still purchased it due to I am a technician and thought perhaps some folks may not have understood how to terminate the connections. I was wrong this is garbage. I DO know how to terminate and this device has issues. I could only get 3 out of 8 drops to test through all pairs. After reterminating with a very close eye the drops still would not test out. After further troubleshooting I uninstalled all drops and ommitted this panel from my install. I would advise Amazon to pull this product because a product with this lack of quality does not deserve to be available on Amazon.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10514&cs_id=1051402&p_id=7299&seq=1&format=2


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

mikeh32 said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10514&cs_id=1051402&p_id=7299&seq=1&format=2


Can I trust this ones good? Any experience?


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

JustinG said:


> Be careful with that one, the reviews aren't looking that good.
> 
> After reading the reviews on this product that stated it was junk, I still purchased it due to I am a technician and thought perhaps some folks may not have understood how to terminate the connections. I was wrong this is garbage. I DO know how to terminate and this device has issues. I could only get 3 out of 8 drops to test through all pairs. After reterminating with a very close eye the drops still would not test out. After further troubleshooting I uninstalled all drops and ommitted this panel from my install. I would advise Amazon to pull this product because a product with this lack of quality does not deserve to be available on Amazon.


Wow that blows, I'll just return it without even opening it, thanks man, the last thing I need is a product working against me in a new field experience.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

Monoprice has amazing service. 

They have established them selves, and many trust them. 

if something is to go wrong, they have always replaced the item for me. 

Even when it was my fault


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

What a forum! You guys warm my heart with all your information. 

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:



I don't know where this is being installed but you might want to check and see if he has an existing rack for his network or phones. Just sayin.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

Monoprice is the best, except the shipping


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

JustinG said:


> Be careful with that one, the reviews aren't looking that good.
> 
> 
> After reading the reviews on this product that stated it was junk, I still purchased it due to I am a technician and thought perhaps some folks may not have understood how to terminate the connections. I was wrong this is garbage. I DO know how to terminate and this device has issues. I could only get 3 out of 8 drops to test through all pairs. After reterminating with a very close eye the drops still would not test out. After further troubleshooting I uninstalled all drops and ommitted this panel from my install. I would advise Amazon to pull this product because a product with this lack of quality does not deserve to be available on Amazon.


 
Sorry for misleading. I wasn't trying to recommend any particlular product, rather show that are less expensive alternatives. I have used Siemens 12 port patch panels ( about $25.00 ) with no problems, but I don't remember where I ordered it from.

I'm curious about your termination troubles. This product states that it can be terminated with 110 or Krone. How does that work?

Thanks for the clarification.


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## JustinG (Sep 4, 2012)

Ty Wrapp said:


> Sorry for misleading. I wasn't trying to recommend any particlular product, rather show that are less expensive alternatives. I have used Siemens 12 port patch panels ( about $25.00 ) with no problems, but I don't remember where I ordered it from.
> 
> I'm curious about your termination troubles. This product states that it can be terminated with 110 or Krone. How does that work?
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.


I haven't bought that particular patch panel so I'm guessing it really should be punched down with a Krone tool, I have both a Krone and 110 and they are slightly different.


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## BBS (Aug 19, 2009)

It isn't cheap but my company tends to install Belden equipment. This was one part of an office network.


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## JohnR (Apr 12, 2010)

That 24 bay patch panel is about 19" long, it goes in a rack that is approximately 20" long, 20" deep and can be as short as 8" high or so wall mounted, to 7' tall floor mounted, The color is usually black but can be silver/ aluminum as well. You may find one in the managers office or in a small closet near it already. 

I have found that the cables come down the back side of the rack, along the bottom to the hinge side, and up to the side edge of the patch panel. They are tywrapped together so that it is all neat once it leaves the ceiling. Along the back of the patch panel you would stagger each cable as it hits its punch block.

Hope this makes sense, trying to make it clear if you haven't seen it before.


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

Someone once posted a picture of some monstrous racking with some unbelievably neat cabling, wish I new who but have no recollection.


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## JustinG (Sep 4, 2012)

GEORGE D said:


> Someone once posted a picture of some monstrous racking with some unbelievably neat cabling, wish I new who but have no recollection.


Soak up the beauty;

http://www.reddit.com/r/cableporn/


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

JustinG said:


> Soak up the beauty;
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/cableporn/


Not sure if its in there, that's a lot of pics, the one I'm talking about looked unlike anything I've seen, must of been 500+ cables and organized like no other. I'll try and find it


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## BBS (Aug 19, 2009)

1300 cables organized:


mxslick said:


>


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

that cat6 will perform like absolute ****!


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## GEORGE D (Apr 2, 2009)

BBS said:


> 1300 cables organized:


That's it! Wow, whose install...yours? That's crazy as sh!t, coordinated zip ties, even fancier than I remember.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

you are never to run cat6 with cable ties, or all nice and neat like that. 

alien cross talk, and cross talk like a mother ****er. 

we have tested this in our lab at work many times, and it bogs the network


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

How would you keep them neat? Minus the zip ties obviously.


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

you dont. If anything, you loosely cable tie them. 

The recent install specs say to install as it lays. 

but no cable ties on category 6. 

drives the installers nuts. 

If allowed, I will try to take a few pictures of the data runs at the data center.


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## Ty Wrapp (Aug 24, 2011)

How about the 3/4" wide Velcro ties ?


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## mikeh32 (Feb 16, 2009)

Ty Wrapp said:


> How about the 3/4" wide Velcro ties ?


velcro is the preferred method


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

BBS, what does that look like with patch cords?


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## BBS (Aug 19, 2009)

Haha, they didn't include that view. Probably a rat's nest.


GEORGE D said:


> That's it! Wow, whose install...yours? That's crazy as sh!t, coordinated zip ties, even fancier than I remember.


Just a youtube video that was linked to in another thread I had happened to look at earlier: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f10/now-i-am-impressed-42426/
I don't think I'll ever have enough time to waste for that level of detail. Cable combs would probably help though.


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## FlyingSparks (Dec 10, 2012)

Yeah we use velcro in our MDF and IDF rooms.


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 8, 2011)

FlyingSparks said:


> Yeah we use velcro in our MDF and IDF rooms.


Likewise.


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## LARMGUY (Aug 22, 2010)

GEORGE D said:


> Someone once posted a picture of some monstrous racking with some unbelievably neat cabling, wish I new who but have no recollection.


 
That was me.

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f10/now-i-am-impressed-42426/


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