# Stripping wire with your *****



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

It may be a hack to some but i can strip a lot with my ***** without leaving a knick in the conductor. Anybody else just use *****?

I'm talking about romex and thhn sizes #14-#10

I knick the outer jacket with my ***** and strip the conductors with them too sometimes.

Makes it so much quicker using one tool making up a panel.

No knicks whatsoever. I have had the same pair of ***** for going on 10 years so you get the feel of them and how hard to close them on the wire.

I can even do stranded without knicking the wire but i always use strippers for that.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

I had stripping ***** when I did resi, used them for switching and plugging. For rough wiring I used 9" Kleins.

http://www.service.kleintools.com/T... - Stripping Holes PLIERS-DIAGONAL-HLSTRPHOLE


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## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

I use my thin screwdrivers as chop sticks...:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

I use these to strip up to #3THHN.. rather have one tool that does it all


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

Lines man for all except panel work or control


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## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

I would only do that if was all the way up in attic and forgot my strippers or something like that. To much of a risk to damage the conductor in my opinion. But what do I know.

I give that method about a 4 on the hack-o- meter. :thumbsup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> It may be a hack to some but i can strip a lot with my ***** without leaving a knick in the conductor. Anybody else just use *****?
> 
> I'm talking about romex and thhn sizes #14-#10
> 
> ...


In 1994 i bought a pair of 2000-28 klein ***** the first thing i cut with them was live 120 volts..:laughing:

Woops well that made them a good pair of strippers..:laughing:http://www.service.kleintools.com/Tools/PRD/Category/High-Leverage%20Diagonal-Cutting%20Pliers%20PLIERS-DIAGONAL-HLDIAGCUT/Product/D2000-28


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Ima Hack said:


> I would only do that if was all the way up in attic and forgot my strippers or something like that. To much of a risk to damage the conductor in my opinion. But what do I know.
> 
> I give that method about a 4 on the hack-o- meter. :thumbsup:


When your good at it like me you don't knick the conductor its all in the wrist:laughing:

And i use my strippers most of the time but if i really want to knock things out quick i use one tool.

Maybe i should make a video of it:thumbsup:


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Woops well that made them a good pair of strippers..:laughing:


Been there, I had one pair of Kleins that could strip 4/0.:blink:


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> In 1994 i bought a pair of 2000-28 klein ***** the first thing i cut with them was live 120 volts..:laughing:
> 
> Woops well that made them a good pair of strippers..:laughing:


That's around how old mine are same kind Klein blue handle.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> Been there, I had one pair of Kleins that could strip 4/0.:blink:


277 volts?:laughing:


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## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm so impressed!!


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> That's around how old mine are same kind Klein blue handle.


Its funny when i did that i was going to just get another pair but never did
They still work fine.
I have beet about 5 pairs of 9" linesmen since then..:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

jza said:


> I'm so impressed!!


Do you _ever_ have anything good to say?? :blink:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jza said:


> I'm so impressed!!


Stick around kid you will learn
:blink:


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> Its funny when i did that i was going to just get another pair but never did
> They still work fine.
> I have beet about 5 pairs of 9" linesmen since then..:laughing:


Yep and i have cut tons of 6,8 and 10-32s with them over the years and still work good.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

whats wrong with strippers?

I use ideal strippers for everything, from stripping #14 to cutting 10-3 MC and everything in-between.

~Matt


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> I use these to strip up to #3THHN.. rather have one tool that does it all


You can strip 750's with these.:laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

pawirenut said:


> Makes it so much quicker using one tool making up a panel.
> 
> .


You know, you can cut wire/NM sheath with your strippers :whistling2:.

I've of course used dikes/sidecutters in a pinch but, I *much* prefer new, sharp strippers and I guarantee I can strip wire faster than you can with 10 year old dikes.



> I use ideal strippers for everything, from stripping #14 to *cutting 10-3 MC* and everything in-between.


GAH!!


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## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

I can also spin my klien linemans on my finger:thumbup:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> whats wrong with strippers?
> 
> I use ideal strippers for everything, from stripping #14 to cutting 10-3 MC and everything in-between.
> 
> ~Matt


Nothing it's all about what your comfortable with using.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> You can strip 750's with these.:laughing:


Those ratchet cutters are on my wish list.. I still have these..

Kind of tough cutting 500CU...


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Mr Rewire said:


> I can also spin my klien linemans on my finger:thumbup:


Can you spin them and put them in your bag like a gunslinger?


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

I've always used ***** to strip all cables, we have smaller versions of b4t pic as well, there about 4 or 6" long in total, I never nick the cables, and in the UK we aren't allowed to twist any wires together when we do joints.


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## sparky105 (Sep 29, 2009)

Englishsparky said:


> and in the UK we aren't allowed to twist any wires together when we do joints.


Really what is the reason for this?


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## Magnettica (Jan 23, 2007)

I'll use my linemen's pliers to strip away insulation from the conductor up to #10 copper. 

Anything larger than #10 I'll use a utility knife and be careful not to knick the conductor. 

Damage to the conductor leads to overheating and ampacity decreases.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

sparky105 said:


> Really what is the reason for this?


Weak wrist.:laughing::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

sparky105 said:


> Really what is the reason for this?


 Know it all's telling Electricians how to do the work.

I twist first wire nuts second


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

I don't even own a set of *****. Lost them about 3 months ago and don't miss them yet. Haven't had needle nose for years now either. For linemans I use the rod buster style, they are more compact and easier to work with. For stripping wire I use the cheapo kleins from Home Depot. I carry at all times a large flat blade, #2 philips, klien 11 in 1, full set of nut drivers minus 11/32", tin snips, linemans, strippers, utility knife, 10" channel locks, roto splitter, Dewalt 18v impact driver or makita 10.8 impact driver (depending on how much power I need), hammer, meter, wire nuts and whatever little parts for the job I'm doing. All in all it wieghs about 35 pounds and we're only allowed to take off our bags at break and lunch. Even if we go take a leak we leave them on.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Know it all's telling Electricians how to do the work.
> 
> I twist first wire nuts second


That's a total waste of time, just put a wire nut driver in your impact driver and run them on no twisting required. Twisting also makes it a pain in the a$$ if you need to change the make up at a later time.


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## Steve W (Dec 18, 2008)

pawirenut said:


> I knick the outer jacket with my ***** and strip the conductors with them too sometimes.
> 
> Makes it so much quicker using one tool making up a panel.
> 
> ...


I dont see how it would make it any any harder of more time consuming using a pair of strippers and also a pair of ***** if you like than just a pair of *****. why not use the right tool for the right job.


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## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Can you spin them and put them in your bag like a gunslinger?


I don't know about him, but I sure can.:thumbup:


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

sparky105 said:


> Really what is the reason for this?


We got taught at college that this can make the cable anneal.


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

brian john said:


> Weak wrist.:laughing::laughing:


I have other reasons for weak wrists:laughing::laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Englishsparky said:


> I have other reasons for weak wrists:laughing::laughing:


So are you actually known as Englishsparkles?


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> So are you actually known as Englishsparkles?


No, sparky is an English term for an electrician, my real name is Ian, and when I found this place I realised most people were from north america..:thumbup:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Englishsparky said:


> No, sparky is an English term for an electrician, my real name is Ian, and when I found this place I realised most people were from north america..:thumbup:


I know, I was just joking with you. 

Q. What do you call an electrician? 
A. Sparky.

Q. What do you call a gay electrician?
A. Sparkles

Weak wrist = sparkles


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## Englishsparky (Nov 6, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> I know, I was just joking with you.
> 
> Q. What do you call an electrician?
> A. Sparky.
> ...


Lol, I was thinking of something else for weak wrists but each to there own:laughing::laughing:


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

220/221 said:


> You know, you can cut wire/NM sheath with your strippers :whistling2:.
> 
> I've of course used dikes/sidecutters in a pinch but, I *much* prefer new, sharp strippers and I guarantee I can strip wire faster than you can with 10 year old dikes.
> 
> ...


WHAT!

The ideals I buy last 1-2 years with daily "abuse" They use damn good metal on them there strippers!.. now the klein version i had.... lol, Failure!

~Matt


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> WHAT!
> 
> The ideals I buy last 1-2 years with daily "abuse" They use damn good metal on them there strippers!.. now the klein version i had.... lol, Failure!
> 
> ~Matt



I don't like ideals cause the two halves are held together with a bolt and nut that never stays at the proper tightness for "ideal" operation. Kliens on the other hand are held together with some sort of rivet thing and it will always be the same.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> I don't like ideals cause the two halves are held together with a bolt and nut that never stays at the proper tightness for "ideal" operation. Kliens on the other hand are held together with some sort of rivet thing and it will always be the same.


Till you have them for 3 weeks, and they are more dull then a pair of pu$$y lips.

~Matt


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

pawirenut said:


> Anybody else just use *****?


*****, linemans, sta-kon pliers, knives, and maybe, occasionally, once and a while a wire stripper :laughing:


I do use auto strippers a heck of a lot for panel building.


Edit: Now realizing the irony of my avatar picture :lol:


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## Foestauf (Jan 5, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> That's a total waste of time, just put a wire nut driver in your impact driver and run them on no twisting required. Twisting also makes it a pain in the a$$ if you need to change the make up at a later time.


Do service work for a few years an when you start getting calls due to loose connections in wirenuts. I used to be like that until I saw how bad of a practice that is. I now twist all my solid conductors, cut flush on the end, then twist on a wing nut.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Till you have them for 3 weeks, and they are more dull then a pair of pu$$y lips.
> 
> ~Matt


If you say so...:whistling2:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Foestauf said:


> Do service work for a few years an when you start getting calls due to loose connections in wirenuts. I used to be like that until I saw how bad of a practice that is. I now twist all my solid conductors, cut flush on the end, then twist on a wing nut.


I've done service work but that won't change my mind. We don't have time to twist the wire, I can tell you without a doubt that if my foreman saw you doing that you would be gone. Putting wire nuts on by hand is borderline. We put them on with our drill and that's only if we're not allowed to use wagos. Put them on so tight that the red wire nuts start turning white you won't have no wires falling out.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> That's a total waste of time, just put a wire nut driver in your impact driver and run them on no twisting required. Twisting also makes it a pain in the a$$ if you need to change the make up at a later time.


 Not twisting first is a fire hazard and it takes two seconds to makup a splice.....

You make up splices with a cordless drilltalk about wasting time.

If you have to go back and change something then take the splice apart add what you need then trist them back together for a good solid splice then put a new wire nut on,,Thats what an Electrician does..

A slacker does that stupid stuff..but plese keep doing that so i will get the service call..


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> I've done service work but that won't change my mind. We don't have time to twist the wire, I can tell you without a doubt that if my foreman saw you doing that you would be gone. Putting wire nuts on by hand is borderline. We put them on with our drill and that's only if we're not allowed to use wagos. Put them on so tight that the red wire nuts start turning white you won't have no wires falling out.


I would fire the forman on the spot for teaching stuff like that..


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> *Not twisting first is a fire hazard* and it takes two seconds to makup a splice.....


I believe both Ideal and 3M say right on the package twisting is not required.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> You make up splices with a cordless drilltalk about wasting time.



How do you figure? We have little races and the guys with drills always win. By a lot.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> I would fire the forman on the spot for teaching stuff like that..


Well you won't need to worry about it cause our shop doesn't hire old timers.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> I believe both Ideal and 3M say right on the package twisting is not required.


I wonder if these guys refuse to use stranded wire cause they can't twist it therefor it must be a *fire hazard*.


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## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

knowshorts said:


> I believe both Ideal and 3M say right on the package twisting is not required.


Right from a jar of ideal tans that was sitting on a shelf above my head. 



> 5. Pre-twisting acceptable, but not required. For pre-twisting; strip wires long, hold wires with insulation even, twist wire ends together, trim to recommended strip length.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> How do you figure? We have little races and the guys with drills always win. By a lot.


Electrical work is not a race / joke/or any thing other than a serious business and the publics safety is at stake. you shoul report that to your electricians board and see how fast they revoke your formans license
He is pushing you guys like that so he can get his bonus at the end of the job and does not care if the place burns down:no:.

Here is a job for you take apart all the splices at your house then make them up as fast as you can the way you do it lets see how well you will sleep at night.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> I wonder if these guys refuse to use stranded wire cause they can't twist it therefor it must be a *fire hazard*.


I twist stranded just the same.....


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> I believe both Ideal and 3M say right on the package twisting is not required.


When you get a box of wire nuts empty the box in your pouch and throw it away..Don't waste time reading DYS directions.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Well you won't need to worry about it cause our shop doesn't hire old timers.


Don't worry about me my business is doing just fine.


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## knowshorts (Jan 9, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> When you get a box of wire nuts empty the box in your pouch and throw it away..Don't waste time reading DYS directions.


I only buy baby and large blues by the box. Everything else is by the 1000. 

I don't use a pouch.

I get paid to read the instructions.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Here is a job for you take apart all the splices at your house then make them up as fast as you can the way you do it lets see how well you will sleep at night.


So I'm guessing you wouldn't approve of the air splice in my attic?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

knowshorts said:


> I only buy baby and large blues by the box. Everything else is by the 1000.
> 
> I don't use a pouch.
> 
> I get paid to read the instructions.


Great if you wan't put your name on poor wokmanship I don't care..:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> So I'm guessing you wouldn't approve of the air splice in my attic?


You meen with no box


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> You meen with no box


Pretty sure that's what "air splice" means.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Two solid 12's, I dont always twist. Three or more, you bet your ass I'm twisting them. I bet I can pre-twist and install a wirenut as fast as you can install a WAGO.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> Two solid 12's, I dont always twist. Three or more, you bet your ass I'm twisting them. I bet I can pre-twist and install a wirenut as fast as you can install a WAGO.


Bet you can't. I'm faster than pretty much anyone I know. When working side by side I will NOT lose.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Pretty sure that's what "air splice" means.


 Let me guess its BX right..


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Let me guess its BX right..


No, it's Romex.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> No, it's Romex.


withe the ground wire cut off right:laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> withe the ground wire cut off right:laughing:


You've been wrong about darn near everything tonight.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> Two solid 12's, I *dont always* twist..


There's no way you're faster than me if you don't even have a system that you follow.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> You've been wrong about darn near everything tonight.


:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


Easy there harry, never argue with a fool, everyone else might not be able to tell the difference. Remember there's not hack filter on this site.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> There's no way you're faster than me if you don't even have a system that you follow.


If you're ever in Los Angeles, let me know.


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Bet you can't. I'm faster than pretty much anyone I know. When working side by side I will NOT lose.


Well, so am I, what does that prove?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

The_Modifier said:


> Easy there harry, never argue with a fool, everyone else might not be able to tell the difference. Remember there's not hack filter on this site.





> Remember there's not hack filter on this site.


Don't talk about your self like that..:laughing::laughing:


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

I wonder what home depot he graduated from? :laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> If you're ever in Los Angeles, let me know.


Well I make it down there once every never but if you're ever up in Oregon let me know. Wait, you're not licensed to do electrical work in Oregon SNAP!


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## SparkYZ (Jan 20, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Well I make it down there once every never but if you're ever up in Oregon let me know. Wait, you're not licensed to do electrical work in Oregon SNAP!


Seeing as I've been to Oregon once, and that was for a vacation....why would it matter if I'm licensed in OR? 

Geeze man, I was thinking of a friendly competition at a bar or something, is this a bit of a touchy subject for you?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Bet you can't. I'm faster than pretty much anyone I know. When working side by side I will NOT lose.


Electrical work is not a race //It is a professional trade.

you seem to be a first year helper not a jouneyman Electrician like it states in your profile.:no:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Electrical work is not a race //It is a professional trade.
> 
> you seem to be a first year helper not a jouneyman Electrician like it states in your profile.:no:


I've been a journeyman for 5 years now. There's a reason I'm still working and made the cut when we went from 85 to 15.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> I've been a journeyman for 5 years now. There's a reason I'm still working and made the cut when we went from 85 to 15.


Yes i can see the brown steem comeing from your nose..:laughing::laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

SparkYZ said:


> Seeing as I've been to Oregon once, and that was for a vacation....why would it matter if I'm licensed in OR?
> 
> Geeze man, I was thinking of a friendly competition at a bar or something, is this a bit of a touchy subject for you?


No, not a touchy subject, I'm just playin around with you guys. Don't take it all seriously.


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

At least he admits that he's 5 years old- comments alone prove to be a green horn.:thumbsup:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Yes i can see the brown steem comeing from your nose..:laughing::laughing:



You're a funny guy. I've never even said the word "sir" to the boss.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> You're a funny guy. I've never even said the word "sir" to the boss.


 Cool..:thumbsup:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Cool..:thumbsup:


Well Harry, it's been fun but I gotta get some sleep. Need to be well rested for the big conduit race tomorrow.

Good night


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## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

He got his post count up as high as he wanted tonight I guess Harry. LOL:brows:


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Who gives a sh!t if someone twists their wires or not? All I know is if you are working on my job you WILL twist them with your Kleins first, or you will go home. And if I catch you using your impact or cordless to twist them, you will go home. Every time I have seen that, the wires have been twisted all the way to the back of the box, and once I found them broken because of it.

Fact is, as long as you don't work for me, then you can hack and blunder and call in sick all you want. I have found a serenity in my life by not worrying about jackleg bullsh!t.


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## Lz_69 (Nov 1, 2007)

B4T said:


> Those ratchet cutters are on my wish list.. I still have these..
> 
> Kind of tough cutting 500CU...


I knew about laying sod over underground boxes but when did you go full on landscaper and start pruning bushes:laughing:


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## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Use dikes for almost everything, stripping, and even twisting. I just strip wires long , bite ends and twist then cut off excess.


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Shockdoc said:


> Use dikes for almost everything, stripping, and even twisting. I just strip wires long , bite ends and twist then cut off excess.


I wish i could use a pair of dikes one day


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> Not twisting first is a *fire hazard* ....


Statements like that are just flat out *wrong*. You should know better.


You can say that you prefer to twist but when you claim it's a fire hazzard not to twist, you lose all credibility on the subject. You can _try_ to debate this but you will have no evidence to prove your point


Wire nut on 4 12's twisted by hand.











4 12's pre twisted with side cutters.










While the pre twisted joint is tighter, the hand twisted splice is *100%* secure and in no way a *fire hazzard*. 

Personally, I only pre twist on a few occaisions like reworking joints and the wires are bent.


I pre twisted some today. Power in and out of a switch box and I installed two timer devices. I pretwisted the 12's so, in the future, the devices would be able to be removed without interupting the circuit passing through. Thinking of the next guy which is usually me.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

Using dikes as strippers?


Yeah, I did that when I first started out, than I got the right tools, and stopped fixing stupid crap because the wire broke under the wire nut, or on the device or breaker screw due to squezzing/twisting too hard on the dull dikes.

New wire strippers cost what, $10?


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> Using dikes as strippers?
> 
> 
> Yeah, I did that when I first started out, than I got the right tools, and stopped fixing stupid crap because the wire broke under the wire nut, or on the device or breaker screw due to squezzing/twisting too hard on the dull dikes.
> ...


I had 3 pairs of strippers starting out now i have like 10.

Sometimes i strip wire with ***** sometimes with strippers. Just like hammering in staples i sometimes use my linemans and sometimes a hammer.


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## 10492 (Jan 4, 2010)

I did that also. Using linesman for hamering in metal staples.

Then I bought a staple gun.

I used to make up services bugs with my cresent wrench and channel locks, then I bought a crimper and H-taps.

I once had a 16' A-frame (what a monster to lift off and carry by yourself) to fix tennis court lights and plant lights, then I bought a lift and a truck.

Better tools/right tools, make for better installations.


Don't get me wrong, using something is a pinch is Ok, but if your doing things everyday all day long, go get the right stuff.


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Dnkldorf said:


> I did that also. Using linesman for hamering in metal staples.
> 
> Then I bought a staple gun.
> 
> ...


 
I have all the right stuff just choose to use different tools sometimes...why?? Because i f'in can:thumbsup:

And the right tools is only half the battle. I seen people with top of the line tools that don't even know they are doing.


----------



## Shockdoc (Mar 4, 2010)

I travel light, no tool belt, let the younger ones wear them. for me it's dikes, pliers and flathead screwdriver in back pocket.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Lz_69 said:


> I knew about laying sod over underground boxes but when did you go full on landscaper and start pruning bushes:laughing:


Sometimes one of my PVC boxes needs full sun to help the grass grow over the top..

Those cutters are great for tree branches.. :thumbup:


----------



## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> Who gives a sh!t if someone twists their wires or not? All I know is if you are working on my job you WILL twist them with your Kleins first, or you will go home. And if I catch you using your impact or cordless to twist them, you will go home. Every time I have seen that, the wires have been twisted all the way to the back of the box, and once I found them broken because of it.
> 
> Fact is, as long as you don't work for me, then you can hack and blunder and call in sick all you want. I have found a serenity in my life by not worrying about jackleg bullsh!t.


I twist all of my wirenuts by hand and I keep twisting until the wire is twisted to the back of the box, I know the joint will not come apart at that point.


----------



## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

dowmace said:


> I twist all of my wirenuts by hand and I keep twisting until the wire is twisted to the back of the box, I know the joint will not come apart at that point.


I did that in my early days.

Until I had to take one apart.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

dowmace said:


> I twist all of my wirenuts by hand and I keep twisting until the wire is twisted to the back of the box, I know the joint will not come apart at that point.













~Matt


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

dowmace said:


> I twist all of my wirenuts by hand and I keep twisting until the wire is twisted to the back of the box, I know the joint will not come apart at that point.


That's ********.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> Who gives a sh!t if someone twists their wires or not? All I know is if you are working on my job you WILL twist them with your Kleins first, or you will go home. And if I catch you using your impact or cordless to twist them, you will go home. Every time I have seen that, the wires have been twisted all the way to the back of the box, and once I found them broken because of it.
> 
> Fact is, as long as you don't work for me, then you can hack and blunder and call in sick all you want. I have found a serenity in my life by not worrying about jackleg bullsh!t.



Installing material as per code and manufactures instructions is now hack? :001_huh: I suppose you use anti short bushing on MC cable too?


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Installing material as per code and manufactures instructions is now hack? :001_huh: I suppose you use anti short bushing on MC cable too?


I do.

~Matt


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I do.
> 
> ~Matt


Why? They're not required.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Why? They're not required.


I know, but they come with the wire.. why not use them. Besides I always go a little farther then code minimum unlike some guys.

~Matt


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> I know, but they come with the wire.. why not use them. Besides I always go a little farther then code minimum unlike some guys.
> 
> ~Matt


I've never had one short out on me and it takes about twice as long to install a connector plus you need to pack them with you.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> I've never had one short out on me and it takes about twice as long to install a connector plus you need to pack them with you.


Twice as long? lol You are out of your mind man... And I keep them in a bucket tray - right next to my mc fittings, its a novel idea, I know.

~Matt


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Twice as long? lol You are out of your mind man... And I keep them in a bucket tray - right next to my mc fittings, its a novel idea, I know.
> 
> ~Matt


Yes, twice as long. You reach for the anti short, then put it on. Those same motions could have been used for reaching for the connector and putting it on.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Yes, twice as long. You reach for the anti short, then put it on. Those same motions could have been used for reaching for the connector and putting it on.


:laughing:

OK man.

~Matt


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> Installing material as per code and manufactures instructions is now hack? :001_huh: I suppose you use anti short bushing on MC cable too?


As a matter of fact I do use anti shorts. However, I never said that using the wirenut to twist the wires was hack. I am full aware that it is possible to make a good connection with a wire nut. But I am 1000% more confident in a connection made by twisting with my Kleins. Hell, the wirenut could fall clean off the joint and the connection is still bulletproof. 

As far as I'm concerned with this topic, you do what you want. I'm not going to drag off into a debate about how much better one method is than the other. All I can say is what I do, and what others wishing to work on projects that I oversee will do. If perchance we find ourselves in one or the others' employ, one of us will do the job like the other specifies, or we will pack our tools back into the Yugo, and split.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> As a matter of fact I do use anti shorts. However, I never said that using the wirenut to twist the wires was hack. I am full aware that it is possible to make a good connection with a wire nut. But I am 1000% more confident in a connection made by twisting with my Kleins. Hell, the wirenut could fall clean off the joint and the connection is still bulletproof.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned with this topic, you do what you want. I'm not going to drag off into a debate about how much better one method is than the other. All I can say is what I do, and what others wishing to work on projects that I oversee will do. If perchance we find ourselves in one or the others' employ, one of us will do the job like the other specifies, or we will pack our tools back into the Yugo, and split.


One can only be 100% confident.

~Matt


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> If perchance we find ourselves in one or the others' employ, one of us will do the job like the other specifies, or we will pack our tools back into the Yugo, and split.


If it was up to me I'd just have you do something else.


----------



## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> Installing material as per code and manufactures instructions is now hack? :001_huh: I suppose you use anti short bushing on MC cable too?





TOOL_5150 said:


> I do.
> 
> ~Matt


So do I. I've had one blow up in my face from grabbing the mc and moving it just a little, the reason it blew, because the mc cut into the wire. All it took was once.
No pre-twisting here, my splices are solid, I check every wire. In 8 years I've never seen anyone do it. I do work with guys from the east coast and that's how I first head about it, but since heading west they have drooped the habit.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

RUSSIAN said:


> So do I. I've had one blow up in my face from grabbing the mc and moving it just a little, the reason it blew, because the mc cut into the wire. All it took was once.
> No pre-twisting here, my splices are solid, I check every wire. In 8 years I've never seen anyone do it. I do work with guys from the east coast and that's how I first head about it, but since heading west they have drooped the habit.


I've never seen it done here either. Asked around at work today and nobody I asked has seen it done as a common practice either.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

And who cares how long it takes to do the job with or without antishort bushings? I mean, if I have won the bid and am doing the job, that means the customer has accepted my price. And I price it to make money, using antishorts.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> If it was up to me I'd just have you do something else.


I understand that position, however, if I say to someone, "Do me a favor and use your Kleins to twist your wires first", and that person digs in and flat refuses, then I don't need that person on my job. It would be one thing if I were asking that person to do something totally wrong or substandard. But to ask someone to do a little more than the instructions on the box is sound and reasonable, in my opinion.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

9" Kliens- for ALL day to day stripping.

Never got the 400 LB. Tool belt thing.
looks good to the untrained eye. 

But in reality... You can fit most tools you need for most any job at any given time....

In your back pocket.


----------



## leland (Dec 28, 2007)

InPhase277 said:


> I understand that position, however, if I say to someone, "Do me a favor and use your Kleins to twist your wires first", and that person digs in and flat refuses, then I don't need that person on my job. It would be one thing if I were asking that person to do something totally wrong or substandard. But to ask someone to do a little more than the instructions on the box is sound and reasonable, in my opinion.



You sign the check- Then the receiver shall do as you ask.:thumbsup:


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

leland said:


> You sign the check- Then the receiver shall do as you ask.:thumbsup:


That's right and the signer says we wear our 400 pound bags and go balls to the wall all day long.


----------



## PDX-SPARKY (Mar 5, 2010)

I think the only time I've used ***** to strip wire was when I was an idiot and went into a crawl space under the house and forgot my strippers, turning around and getting out wasn't much of an option seeings how I am amazed I made it through without buttering my self up to get where I needed to go. 

I will say though it is interesting to see that most of the guys on the East coast use different methods than the guys on the west coast.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> That's right and the signer says we wear our 400 pound bags and go balls to the wall all day long.


When you go balls to the wall... do you also take it up the tailpipe?

~Matt


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

PDX-SPARKY said:


> I will say though it is interesting to see that most of the guys on the East coast use different methods than the guys on the west coast.


Yeah, we've had 'lectricity here longer, so we know how to do it right.:thumbup:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm from California and I pretwist pretty much all of my splices. A lot of electricians I've worked with over the years do it and it's how I was trained.

It's a company policy at the shop I work at to pretwist all joints as well.


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> I'm from California and I pretwist pretty much all of my splices. A lot of electricians I've worked with over the years do it and it's how I was trained.
> 
> It's a company policy at the shop I work at to pretwist all joints as well.


Im from California and I find pretwisting to be stupid.

Its company policy to install devices and accessories the way the instructions say, and on the jug of wire nuts we buy, it says pretwisting is not necessary.

But, we dont use cheap ass wire nuts, and I have never had a connection problem with anything I, or my work partner, have installed.

~Matt


----------



## dowmace (Jan 16, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> That's ********.


I work on a lot of industrial machinery when something vibrates hard enough to loosen large bolts I'm going to do everything I can to keep things together. 

Yes it may be a bitch to take it apart later but I'd rather deal with that than a loose connection screwing something up down the line.


----------



## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> I'm from California and I pretwist pretty much all of my splices. A lot of electricians I've worked with over the years do it and it's how I was trained.
> 
> It's a company policy at the shop I work at to pretwist all joints as well.





TOOL_5150 said:


> Im from California and I find pretwisting to be stupid.
> 
> Its company policy to install devices and accessories the way the instructions say, and on the jug of wire nuts we buy, it says pretwisting is not necessary.
> 
> ...


Hello, my name is Josue,
I'm from Mexico and I always pre-twist, even if the box of wirenuts says that pretwisting ain't necessary. .:thumbsup:


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

I always pretwist the wires. How much longer does it take to do it anyway one minute? Even if it's not required by the wirenut manufacturer you know for a fact the wires are not coming apart by twisting them first.

To me a wirenut is not a mechanical connection it's just an insulator. The mechanical connection is the twisting of the wires before you put the nut on.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

leland said:


> But in reality... You can fit most tools you need for most any job at any given time....
> 
> In your back pocket.


We must do different kinds of work. I am aways amazed at how many tools it takes do do what seems like a simple task.

If I am just making up wires, installing devices or just running conduit, I may forgo the bags but most of the time it's way more productive to have everything right there at your side. A lot of times, for example running pipe , I will just unload the bags and carry the 5 or so tools I need.



> To me a wirenut is not a mechanical connection it's just an insulator. The mechanical connection is the twisting of the wires before you put the nut on


 Why don't you solder them? 

Twisting is not a mechanical connection. If you installed a crimp, OK. 

Try putting them back in the box and see what happens to your joint.


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

220/221 said:


> We must do different kinds of work. I am aways amazed at how many tools it takes do do what seems like a simple task.
> 
> If I am just making up wires, installing devices or just running conduit, I may forgo the bags but most of the time it's way more productive to have everything right there at your side. A lot of times, for example running pipe , I will just unload the bags and carry the 5 or so tools I need.
> 
> ...


Why not solder them? Are you serious?:laughing: 

And if wirenuts are the mechanical connection why do lots of people like me pretwist before using them? And why do I find in lots of homes i do work in the wirenuts just drop off? I opened many junctions boxes with splices where the wirenuts just fell off and the wires weren't twisted.


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

If your working with me, you better be pre-twisting your flippin' wire splices. If I open up your j-box and your 277v splice falls apart, it might be the last j-box you ever make.

Honestly, what half decent electrician isn't splicing their wires before they nut'em up??


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> Honestly, what half decent electrician isn't splicing their wires before they nut'em up??


The ones who read the instructions on the side of the box that say.. "no twisting necessary".. (guessing if it is there).. :laughing:

It is on the web page.. http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/wing-nut.jsp


----------



## slickvic277 (Feb 5, 2009)

B4T said:


> The ones who read the instructions on the side of the box that say.. "no twisting necessary".. (guessing if it is there).. :laughing:
> 
> It is on the web page.. http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/wing-nut.jsp


I don't care. It's still hackish and dangerous IMO.


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

B4T said:


> The ones who read the instructions on the side of the box that say.. "no twisting necessary".. (guessing if it is there).. :laughing:
> 
> It is on the web page.. http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/wing-nut.jsp


 
Yeah just like the receptacle manufacturers that came up with the back stab and we all know how that works. You don't have to hook just back stab it!:laughing::laughing:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

pawirenut said:


> Why not solder them? Are you serious?:laughing:


That is the same reaction we have when people say they _always_ twist them. :laughing:




> And if wirenuts are the mechanical connection why do lots of people like me pretwist before using them?


:jester:




> And why do I find in lots of homes i do work in the wirenuts just drop off?


Because they were obviously improperly installed. The wirenut that I installed in the pic cannot fall off. You can see the marks in the wire where the wirenutgripped and twisted the wires together.




> Honestly, what half decent electrician isn't splicing their wires before they nut'em up??


 
What halfway decent electrician can't install a simple wirenut properly? :laughing:


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

pawirenut said:


> Yeah just like the receptacle manufacturers that came up with the back stab and we all know how that works. You don't have to hook just back stab it!:laughing::laughing:


 

That's another topic but, what is the *success* rate for backstabs?

I'm guessing 99.99 something. Sure, they fail but a *huge* percentage of the time, they don't.


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

220/221 said:


> That's another topic but, what is the *success* rate for backstabs?
> 
> I'm guessing 99.99 something. Sure, they fail but a *huge* percentage of the time, they don't.


On little used receptacles, they likely will never fail, but on ones that are actually utilized failure isn't a matter of IF but WHEN.


----------



## RUSSIAN (Mar 4, 2008)

I can smell silicon valley burning up right now from all the unsafe half electricians that have been wiring the place up for the last 50 some odd years...


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

RUSSIAN said:


> I can smell silicon valley burning up right now from all the unsafe half electricians that have been wiring the place up for the last 50 some odd years...


 
I am certainly personally responsible for an enormous trail of destruction.:laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

220/221 said:


> We must do different kinds of work. I am aways amazed at how many tools it takes do do what seems like a simple task.
> 
> If I am just making up wires, installing devices or just running conduit, I may forgo the bags but most of the time it's way more productive to have everything right there at your side. A lot of times, for example running pipe , I will just unload the bags and carry the 5 or so tools I need.
> 
> ...





> it's way more productive to have everything right there at your side. A lot of times, for example running pipe , I will just unload the bags and carry the 5 or so tools I need


We found something we can agree on....:laughing::laughing: 




> Twisting is not a mechanical connection.
> 
> Try putting them back in the box and see what happens to your joint


If you can get the wires to twist together with the wire nut and then can remove the wire nut without the splice falling apart then you are the excheption.
allmost all the guys that do not pretwist simply hold the wires together give the wirenut a few twists and stuff it in the box and you get a lose splice and they are never around when we go live and have to find the lose splices..
And thats why i pree twist and teach all others to do the same.:thumbsup:


> Twisting is not a mechanical connection


Yes it is if you do it right..


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Im from California and I find pretwisting to be stupid.
> 
> Its company policy to install devices and accessories the way the instructions say, and on the jug of wire nuts we buy, it says pretwisting is not necessary.
> 
> ...


Yes, but how many times have you opened a wirenut in California and the conductors come loose? I'm sure many. That's because someone didn't pretwist, plain and simple.



I use the same wirenuts as you, i remember a post where you mentioned the kind.

The problem is, you can't prove that the splice is twisted enough unless you install the wirenut and then take it off to inspect it. And who the hell is gonna do that... that's right, no person.

That's why pretwisting is good.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

slickvic277 said:


> I don't care. It's still hackish and dangerous IMO.


I agree and always twist when using a wire nut..

But I am using WAGO connectors where ever it is practical, meaning where you might want to add a switch leg or receptacle..


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Rudeboy said:


> Yes, but how many times have you opened a wirenut in California and the conductors come loose? I'm sure many. That's because someone didn't pretwist, plain and simple.


It's because the wirenut *wasn't installed correctly*, plain and simple.




I use the same wirenuts as you, i remember a post where you mentioned the kind.



> The problem is, you can't prove that the splice is twisted enough unless you install the wirenut and then take it off to inspect it. And who the hell is gonna do that... that's right, no person.


 
I did, just to _try_ to prove a point. If you hold the wires in place, make sure one of them doesn't push out (it's very easy to see), and twist the nut until the wires start to wrap, how can it *not* be a good connection. Look at the pics. Look at the conical shape of the nut. How can a wire somehow slip out? How can the nut somehow slip off?




> That's why pretwisting is good


Pretwisting *is* good, it's just _usually_ unnecessary. :thumbup:






> We found something we can agree on....:laughing::laughing:


There is hope for the future of mankind.. :thumbup:


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

220/221 said:


> It's because the wirenut *wasn't installed correctly*, plain and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Two things:

I don't remember a post where I said what type of wirenuts I use. Maybe I did, don't remember though.

Second, you did a test on _one_ splice. That's hardly a great prediction on millions of splices. 

I probably could make a ton of splices without pretwisting and call them cool, but, how would I know?

I do know a pretwisted splice is good to go, because I have a visual of what that splice looks like.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> When you go balls to the wall... do you also take it up the tailpipe?
> 
> ~Matt



Nope. You might find it hard to believe but once you're outside of the bay area things are a little different. Figures that's what would come to mind for you.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> I always pretwist the wires. How much longer does it take to do it anyway one minute?.


Holy crap batman! You're gonna spend a minute per wirenut? Good thing you work for yourself and can take all the time you want I guess.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> And why do I find in lots of homes i do work in the wirenuts just drop off? I opened many junctions boxes with splices where the wirenuts just fell off and the wires weren't twisted.


The reason they fall off is cause the person who put them on didn't put them on tight enough. I suggest using a cordless drill. It's a real bitch to tighten them enough when your fingers get sore from doing it hours on end.


----------



## Rudeboy (Oct 6, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> Holy crap batman! You're gonna spend a minute per wirenut? Good thing you work for yourself and can take all the time you want I guess.


So just because you work for someone else you should do a shytyy install?

Slippery slope meet Malaking_TT


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> Yes, but how many times have you opened a wirenut in California and the conductors come loose? I'm sure many. That's because someone didn't pretwist, plain and simple.


Just the way I like it when I go to work on something old. If I don't want it to come apart I wrap some tape around the wires before removing the wire nut.


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> The reason they fall off is cause the person who put them on didn't put them on tight enough.


Thanks captain obvious:thumbsup:


----------



## Elec-Tech (Oct 10, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> The reason they fall off is cause the person who put them on didn't put them on tight enough. I suggest using a cordless drill. It's a real bitch to tighten them enough when your fingers get sore from doing it hours on end.


Use the drill only if you make sure the solid wire you are twisting up does not bust out of the tip of the wire nut....just sayin lol.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Rudeboy said:


> So just because you work for someone else you should do a shytyy install?
> 
> Slippery slope meet Malaking_TT


It's not a shytyy install whatsoever. It's perfectly legal, safe and accepted industry standard. I've been doing this for 10 years and have worked with literally hundreds of electricians and never once saw anybody doing that crap. Never had any issues. Nothing wrong with going above and beyond but I don't find this even remotely to be a safety issue and if you really spend a minute per wire nut most employers around here will either find you doing something non wire nut related or suggest you apply with Down The Road Electric Inc.


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Plain and simple what would you trust more? Or what is guaranteed to last longer?

A - Splice with just a hand tightened wire nut.

B - Splice with conductors tightly twisted then a wirenut tightly twisted by hand with an extra crank with a linemans?

No brainer to me.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> No brainer to me.


Seems to be an epidemic on the east coast.


----------



## Elec-Tech (Oct 10, 2009)

pawirenut said:


> Plain and simple what would you trust more? Or what is guaranteed to last longer?
> 
> A - Splice with just a hand tightened wire nut.
> 
> ...


I always pre-twist joints. If you dont pre-twist you are lazy pain and simple. Why would you not??


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Elec-Tech said:


> I always pre-twist joints. If you dont pre-twist you are lazy pain and simple. Why would you not??


I always use GRC with concentric bends on strut racks for all my underground. Anything less is pure hack.


----------



## Elec-Tech (Oct 10, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> I always use GRC with concentric bends on strut racks for all my underground. Anything less is pure hack.


keep doing it like that and you may find yourself in the dirt with them same conduits.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Elec-Tech said:


> keep doing it like that and you may find yourself in the dirt with them same conduits.


I'm just illustrating the complete rediculousness of what you said in the post before. I would hope you don't actually believe that crap about the GRC.


----------



## Elec-Tech (Oct 10, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> I'm just illustrating the complete rediculousness of what you said in the post before. I would hope you don't actually believe that crap about the GRC.


Just stating the facts. Give me a good reason not to take 10 seconds and twist them. Dont do anything on a job that you would not feel comfortable with in your own house.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Elec-Tech said:


> Just stating the facts. Give me a good reason not to take 10 seconds and twist them. Dont do anything on a job that you would not feel comfortable with in your own house.


First they say it's a minute now it's 10 seconds? I rewired my 1955 house and I backstabbed and used wagos. I sleep just fine at night knowing it's done right according to code and manufactures instructions. No I don't really have an air splice, I was just trying to get Harry riled up. When I opened up the old J-boxes there were tons of short splices that were soldered with some sort of plastic cap on them. Several of those plastic caps had fallen off.


----------



## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Seems to be an epidemic on the east coast.


You're an a$$. Work and life is not always all about how fast something can be done. Balls to the wall is only good and necessary sometimes. There is a balance between speed and quality, the balance will depend on the job at hand. If the customer pays for PB&J don't give them steak, but if the customer pays for a ham sandwich give him his flippin ham. If what you're doing works for you than great, keep it up, but quit trying to shove you're ridiculous rhetoric down everyone's throats. 

I feel sorry for you that you work for an employer that takes advantage of it's employees so much and I hope in 10 years your health will still be in good standing. That loaded down tool bag you carry around is going to take it's toll, quickly.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

gilbequick said:


> You're an a$$. Work and life is not always all about how fast something can be done. Balls to the wall is only good and necessary sometimes. There is a balance between speed and quality, the balance will depend on the job at hand. If the customer pays for PB&J don't give them steak, but if the customer pays for a ham sandwich give him his flippin ham. If what you're doing works for you than great, keep it up, but quit trying to shove you're ridiculous rhetoric down everyone's throats.
> 
> I feel sorry for you that you work for an employer that takes advantage of it's employees so much and I hope in 10 years your health will still be in good standing. That loaded down tool bag you carry around is going to take it's toll, quickly.


I can see your point of view but I really enjoy working for my employer. They are strict and they expect a lot but they pay us well and provide benefits for the entire family even when we're not on PW. Working fast makes the day go by so fast and we really get into it. I don't really notice having my bags on, they're heavy but it's not uncomfortable or difficult to wear. If I take them off I feel like a dumbsh!t going back to the cart every few minutes to grab something. Much easier just to have what you need right there. I don't believe you need to sacrifice quality for speed, that's why we're professionals we should know how to do things the right way without putting a lot of thought into it.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)




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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

Wow, this subject really gives you a stiffy huh? Look, just because you do it to the bare minimum of the manufacturer's instructions, why should the rest of us? What is so bad about taking the extra step and really making it bullet proof? No wonder your tool bag is so heavy. You have to heave that ***** clear ruler around all day:laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> [youtube]3gxFAnVPig[/youtube]


That is the dumbest most usless video i ever saw..
And i would not teach a DYS THAT 

Is that the type of work you do then your not an Electrician and you should take your license and shred it because it is worth 

Just my 2 cents:laughing:


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> That is the dumbest most usless video i ever saw..
> And i would not teach a DYS THAT
> 
> Is that the type of work you do then your not an Electrician and you should take your license and shred it because it is worth
> ...


Subtract the ruler, add a cordless drill and triple the speed then you have the type of work I do.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Elec-Tech said:


> I always pre-twist joints. If you dont pre-twist you are lazy pain and simple. Why would you not??


 
If you don't solder your splices you are lazy and stupid. Those new fangled wire nuts will never catch on.

Sincerely, My Grandfather.





> That loaded down tool bag you carry around is going to take it's toll, quickly.


Wearing tool bags won't kill you, Princess :laughing:




Rudeboy said:


> Second, you did a test on _one_ splice. That's hardly a great prediction on millions of splices.
> 
> .


Sure it is. I use the same proceedure every time. Strip the wire, hold them tight with the ends even, twist the nut on. If the nut screws down over the copper and covers the insulated part about 1/4" and the wires start to twist around each other, the splice is good. 

I don't need to see inside it. The only thing that can go wrong is if one wire doesn't get involved in the twisting process and gets pushed/squeezed out and this is very easy to see. There will be a bit of copper showing under the bottom of the nut.





> I probably could make a ton of splices without pretwisting and call them cool, but, how would I know?
> 
> 
> 
> I do know a pretwisted splice is good to go, because I have a visual of what that splice looks like


 
It's not rocket science, we do this for a living. 

How do you know your refrigerator light goes off when you close the door?


----------



## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

I love how half the morons advocating pre-twisting are the same people who will call someone else a hack for not following manufacturers instructions.

You can't pick or choose what rules to follow.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

jza said:


> I love how half the morons advocating pre-twisting are the same people who will call someone else a hack for not following manufacturers instructions.
> 
> You can pick or choose what rules to follow.


Thats because we can...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## The Motts (Sep 23, 2009)

Here are the complete instructions from a bag of small grey Ideal wire-nuts:

1. Turn off power before removing or installing connectors.
2. Strip wire to recommended strip length:
-1/4 inch (6mm) solid
-5/16 inch (8mm) stranded
3. *Pretwisting acceptable*, but not required. For pretwisting see step #6.
4. Align frayed strands and conductors.
5. Hold stripped wire together with ends even. Lead stranded wire approximately 1/16 inch (1.6mm).
6. For pretwisting, strip wires long, align insulated ends, twist conductors, trim to recommended length (see #2 above).
7. Insert wires into connector and screw on until *approximately two twists are visible in wire outside of the connector.*

(Bold text added by me.)

I pretwist my splices, but the people that I've run into that don't, always use the instructions as the reason. The trouble is they don't seem to ever read instruction #7, particularly the bold portion. If you're not going to pretwist and use the fact that the instructions say you don't have to, then you have to follow *all* of the instructions.


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## ThEaMpD (Jan 29, 2011)

I think weather or not you can do it does not matter , its bad practice , iv seen alot of people that think they are good at it but end up damaging the wire and you cant even see it , then it breaks after you wirenut it and push it in the box . Strippers are made for a reason!!!!


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## Bama (Dec 17, 2010)

Noob question here...is it really alright to not "pretwist" your wires before putting on the wirenuts?! Personally I wouldn't think so but I'm stupid to this stuff. I just got a pack of wirenuts that said "pretwisting not neccesary" but I think thats being lazy. :001_huh:


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Strip wires
Twist wires
Preheat twisted wires
Dip into solder pot
Ensure there is no cold joint
Wrap with friction tape tightly
Roll wires into splice box or device


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I like the 3M Nut-blaster, but I only like to get a couple twists into the bundle outside of the wirenut skirt. 

The guys who twist all the way back to the root are making problems when it comes time to redo anything.

I keep a DeWalt 7.2V with nutblaster in my pouch for make-up mode on production jobs as well.

Don't nag on Harry too much, he probably still uses his cordless HACKsaw when running pipe, when and if he runs pipe. The bone pile probably has twice as many feet in it as the pipe that made it up on the wall.

IDK, I haven't done any commercial production jobs since 08. Wonder whats new?


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

The Motts said:


> 2. Strip wire to recommended strip length:
> -1/4 inch (6mm) solid
> -5/16 inch (8mm) stranded


That is obscenely short. Last guy that spliced em after stripping that short got smoked.


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## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> I suppose you use anti short bushing on MC cable too?


Didn't your daddy leave a bunch of f**ck-ups in his wake when he told the guys not to use anti-shorts with speed-locks? MF went running back to your shop after that.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> suggest you apply with Down The Road Electric Inc.


TT's shop is known to glamorize self-sacrifice for the sake of production in the EC 'Octagon' Arena, because they are better than the lazy's getting a free-ride. His EC and the PM are laughing all the way to the bank. IDK why they buy into it hook, line, and sinker, it is a stinker. As soon as TT is worn out, he'll get treated like a red-headed step-brother and shown the door. TT will probably roll on down to the local and sign the book, and we will accept him. It is, what it is. Get 'um young, and use 'em up. Let the hall put the old fogies to work.

There's screamers and sweat-shops on both sides, but TT's shop has poetically woven it into some supernatural battle against the brotherhood, whereas other sweatshops just push and berate the men. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the guys are talented, after all, they necked the manpower supply from 85 down to 15.

This is where Bob's quote about an arm in a bucket of water, once removed leaves no trace, it belongs.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Don't nag on Harry too much, he probably still uses his cordless HACKsaw when running pipe, when and if he runs pipe. The bone pile probably has twice as many feet in it as the pipe that made it up on the wall.


 aah no my hack saw has been retired since cordless sawzall's came out more then 15 years ago..


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Damn will this thread die already

The train slipped off the track pages ago.:laughing:


----------



## McClary’s Electrical (Feb 21, 2009)

B4T said:


> Those ratchet cutters are on my wish list.. I still have these..
> 
> Kind of tough cutting 500CU...


 

Get a pair of Greenlee 760's. You can cut 4/0 SER with one hand, all four conductors


----------



## The Motts (Sep 23, 2009)

The Motts said:


> 2. Strip wire to recommended strip length:
> -1/4 inch (6mm) solid
> -5/16 inch (8mm) stranded





miller_elex said:


> That is obscenely short. Last guy that spliced em after stripping that short got smoked.


If you read my complete post you'll see that those instructions are for this wire-nut: 










Other sizes of wire-nuts will have different lengths. I used the gray ones because that is the only package I had available to me.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> Didn't your daddy leave a bunch of f**ck-ups in his wake when he told the guys not to use anti-shorts with speed-locks? MF went running back to your shop after that.



My dad doesn't even know what MC cable is. Sure now you throw speed-locks into the debate, well I agree you should use anti-short bushings on speed-locks. We use 40AST's.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> aah no my hack saw has been retired since cordless sawzall's came out more then 15 years ago..


Cordless sawzall is too slow. We use Panasonic metal cutters
http://www.tylertool.com/panasonic-ey3530nqmkw.html


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> We use 40AST's.


I don't use bushings on arlington snap-ins as well. I was referring to M.F. you know who that is.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> We use Panasonic metal cutters


I like my hearing, as crappy as it is, and will take an 18V sawzall any day.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

miller_elex said:


> TT's shop is known to glamorize self-sacrifice for the sake of production in the EC 'Octagon' Arena, because they are better than the lazy's getting a free-ride. His EC and the PM are laughing all the way to the bank. IDK why they buy into it hook, line, and sinker, it is a stinker. As soon as TT is worn out, he'll get treated like a red-headed step-brother and shown the door. TT will probably roll on down to the local and sign the book, and we will accept him. It is, what it is. Get 'um young, and use 'em up. Let the hall put the old fogies to work.
> 
> There's screamers and sweat-shops on both sides, but TT's shop has poetically woven it into some supernatural battle against the brotherhood, whereas other sweatshops just push and berate the men. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the guys are talented, after all, they necked the manpower supply from 85 down to 15.
> 
> This is where Bob's quote about an arm in a bucket of water, once removed leaves no trace, it belongs.


What you say is pretty accurate. I don't expect to retire from this place but it sure is a fun shop to work for. It's pretty rare to see a guy over 50 working with us, by then I hope to be working for myself or be in a different line of work.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Cordless sawzall is too slow. We use Panasonic metal cutters
> http://www.tylertool.com/panasonic-ey3530nqmkw.html


That looks good i will check in to it...


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

miller_elex said:


> Last guy that spliced em after stripping that short got smoked.


Did you at least dry him out before you smoked him?

~Matt


----------



## CHECKtheE-STOP (Jan 17, 2011)

I strip and cut everything from 18awg- #8awg, THHN to metal clad and SO cord with Klein electrician scissors! Not hot work of course.... Got so used to using them as a cable splicer that I can use them almost completely in place of strippers. I use ideal strippers for the live work!


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

CHECKtheE-STOP said:


> I strip and cut everything from 18awg- #8awg, THHN to metal clad and SO cord with Klein electrician scissors! Not hot work of course.... Got so used to using them as a cable splicer that I can use them almost completely in place of strippers. I use ideal strippers for the live work!


Watch out.. here, you'll be called every name in the book for saying you use scissors.

~Matt


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Watch out.. here, you'll be called every name in the book for saying you use scissors.
> 
> ~Matt


He will be fine what ever your comfortable with...


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> He will be fine what ever your comfortable with...


I use my tape measure to strip solid and my number 2 philips for stranded.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> That looks good i will check in to it...


They are pretty nice. The batteries hold a charge for a long time and if the blade is decent they cut like butter. Blades usually last about a month of hard use. I noticed in the ad they say de-burring is not required but that is not so. There is much less de-burring to do compared with a sawzall but it's still not perfectly smooth after a cut.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> I use my tape measure to strip solid and my number 2 philips for stranded.


 Thats what i thought...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> I use my tape measure to strip solid and my number 2 philips for stranded.


WAT?













~Matt


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## CHECKtheE-STOP (Jan 17, 2011)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Watch out.. here, you'll be called every name in the book for saying you use scissors.
> 
> ~Matt


Yes! I already have! Many electricians have also seen me use the snips and have inspected the finished product! I don't cut the entire way through the insulation, just a ring and pull the insulation off without making contact with the actual conductor. Cable splicers use this same technique on 28awg wire all the time!


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Back to the original question... sort of. Does anyone strip solid #12 by crushing the insulation in the flat pinch point on back of linesmans? It works pretty well and you can't nick the conductor. An old fart showed me that, I very rarely see solid in industrial so I don't know if it is a wide spread practice.


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## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

drsparky said:


> Back to the original question... sort of. Does anyone strip solid #12 by crushing the insulation in the flat pinch point on back of linesmans? It works pretty well and you can't nick the conductor. An old fart showed me that, I very rarely see solid in industrial so I don't know if it is a wide spread practice.


I use to do that with energized conductors, MANY YEARS AGO.

I am a man, I use my teeth now. Of course not with energized conductors.


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

brian john said:


> I use to do that with energized conductors, MANY YEARS AGO.
> 
> I am a man, I use my teeth now. Of course not with energized conductors.


 Me too.... unless I forget them at home! :laughing::laughing::laughing::wheelchair:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

oldtimer said:


> Me too.... unless I forget them at home! :laughing::laughing::laughing::wheelchair:


Yup that will make the morning donut a challenge :laughing::laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Cordless sawzall is too slow. We use Panasonic metal cutters


 
Am I the only one who occaisionally uses a hacksaw? 

Not for production of course but if I need to make a couple cuts, sometimes it's easier and quicker to grab the hacksaw. By the time I get out the saw, a battery and put a blade in it, I could be done with my cuts.


----------



## Josue (Apr 25, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Am I the only one who occaisionally uses a hacksaw?
> 
> Not for production of course but if I need to make a couple cuts, sometimes it's easier and quicker to grab the hacksaw. By the time I get out the saw, a battery and put a blade in it, I could be done with my cuts.


I use the hacksaw.:thumbsup:


----------



## Big John (May 23, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Am I the only one who occaisionally uses a hacksaw?


 You ain't the only one, I've got a Lennox hacksaw that I love.

Maybe it's the style of blade, but my Sawzall also seems to chew the hell out of the pipe. I spend enough extra time reaming that it's not faster than my hacksaw.

-John


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

220/221 said:


> Am I the only one who occaisionally uses a hacksaw?
> .


I caught 3-electricians and 1-apprentice, standing around with their thumbs in their tushies, waiting for a battery for a sawzall to charge, as no one had a hacksaw. I was PISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSED off, I hate dead batteries and NO hacksaw, I went and got mine.


----------



## miller_elex (Jan 25, 2008)

I'll cut deep-strut with my hacksaw,

just to get the veins pumpin! 

I will not cut GRC with a hacksaw, that's a heart-attack in waiting. :no:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> I caught 3-electricians and 1-apprentice, standing around with their thumbs in their tushies, waiting for a battery for a sawzall to charge, as no one had a hacksaw. I was PISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSED off, I hate dead batteries and NO hacksaw, I went and got mine.


That's 3 electricians that should have been 3 battery sawzall's with them especially if they don't carry a hack saw with them..


----------



## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

Upgrade from a hacksaw is a porta band, not a Sawzall.


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

This thread keeps going and going and going....

I feel honored:laughing: What's the next subject?


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> That's 3 electricians that should have been 3 battery sawzall's with them especially if they don't carry a hack saw with them..


All freaking dead (batteries not them) and all have inverters in their trucks.

None of them now work for me, they pushed themselves out of a job overtime, due to major instances that reflect this type of thought process.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> All freaking dead (batteries not them) and all have inverters in their trucks.
> 
> None of them now work for me, they pushed themselves out of a job overtime, due to major instances that reflect this type of thought process.


It is just plain nuts,,, Co Trucks with inverters and all dead batterys they did not know how good they had it. 
That is the kind of stuff there no excuse for no matter what ,, how hard is it to put the battery you just killed on the charger...:001_huh::no:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> This thread keeps going and going and going....
> 
> I feel honored:laughing: What's the next subject?


 Stick around we will think of something...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> It is just plain nuts,,, Co Trucks with inverters and all dead batterys they did not know how good they had it.
> That is the kind of stuff there no excuse for no matter what ,, how hard is it to put the battery you just killed on the charger...:001_huh::no:


One guy had 4-batteries all dead.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

brian john said:


> I caught 3-electricians and 1-apprentice, standing around with their thumbs in their tushies, waiting for a battery for a sawzall to charge, as no one had a hacksaw. I was PISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSED off, I hate dead batteries and NO hacksaw, I went and got mine.


Those are the kind of guys who take advantage of a good boss and ruin it for others.. :no:

One thing I learned long time ago.. you NEVER stand still when someone is paying you by the hour..

Find something to do or at least organize the truck..


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> One guy had 4-batteries all dead.


 It must have been classic watching him try to talk his way out of that one..:laughing:


----------



## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

I use a hacksaw alot when i cut 1/2 and 3/4 emt it cuts like butter because you have the full length of the hacksaw blade to use.

Ofcorse this all matters how much your cutting for the day.


----------



## brian john (Mar 11, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> It must have been classic watching him try to talk his way out of that one..:laughing:


When things like this happen, my ears shut down and my action genes kick in, I get moving and get the work done, while they were stammering. There is always another way.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

brian john said:


> When things like this happen, my ears shut down and my action genes kick in, I get moving and get the work done, while they were stammering. There is always another way.


Thats what happens to me there is just no reason for that stuff..and i will bet they were getting paid top dollar with all the benifits on top of it..


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> I use a hacksaw alot when i cut 1/2 and 3/4 emt it cuts like butter because you have the full length of the hacksaw blade to use.
> 
> Ofcorse this all matters how much your cutting for the day.




I don't mind a hacksaw for small pipe but I haven't used one in years. It now hangs in the shed on a nail without a blade.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> I use a hacksaw alot when i cut 1/2 and 3/4 emt it cuts like butter because you have the full length of the hacksaw blade to use.
> 
> Ofcorse this all matters how much your cutting for the day.


See your thread is up 217 post's i will bet you can make it last past 1,000..:laughing::laughing:


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> I don't mind a hacksaw for small pipe but I haven't used one in years. It now hangs in the shed on a nail without a blade.


 Mine is on the truck in case all else fails...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Mine is on the truck in case all else fails...:laughing::laughing:


If my Panasonic dies I'll just red tag it and grab another one from the connex.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> If my Panasonic dies I'll just red tag it and grab another one from the connex.


What's a connex??


----------



## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

HARRY304E said:


> What's a connex??


Big Storage container.


----------



## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

The other night I was working up in an office highrise past 6:00 pm which is when the going up elevator stops running. I forgot my hacksaw but I had to cut one more piece. Go down, cannot come back up. I used a sawsall blade I found in the carpenter's bucket and had to hand cut the pipe with it, the sawsall was not there on the job either... Now I know it is possible to do. Reminded me of those jailbreak stories...


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> Big Storage container.


 A gang Box...:laughing:


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> A gang Box...:laughing:


No, we have gang box's as well. Think semi truck trailer without the wheels.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> No, we have gang box's as well. Think semi truck trailer without the wheels.


Ahhhhh a Trailer....cool remember Electrical jargon changes from state to state..:laughing::laughing:


----------



## The_Modifier (Oct 24, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Ahhhhh a Trailer....cool remember Electrical jargen changes from state to state..:laughing::laughing:


And from country to country. We call them Sea Cans.


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

The_Modifier said:


> And from country to country. We call them Sea Cans.


What do you guys call an EA up there?


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

The_Modifier said:


> And from country to country. We call them Sea Cans.


 http://www.google.com/search?source...oq=Eletrical+jargon&pbx=1&fp=30945c376a620a4e


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Eletrical jargen


Try again. Spell check is your friend.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Try again. Spell check is your friend.


Thanks smarty pants...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Thanks smarty pants...:laughing::laughing:


You're welcome.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> You're welcome.


 Its all fun and games.. so strip your wires with your *****..:laughing:


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Its all fun and games.. so strip your wires with your *****..:laughing:


I was on a job where we weren't allowed to call them ***** cause there were some lesbians that were offended. We had to call them "side cutting pliers."


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> I was on a job where we weren't allowed to call them ***** cause there were some lesbians that were offended. We had to call them "side cutting pliers."


Yea but they are not side cutters 9" linesmans are..:thumbsup:


----------



## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Yea but they are not side cutters 9" linesmans are..:thumbsup:


Maybe it was "diagonal cutting pliers" Chit I don't remember everything that was like 9 years ago. I call them ***** and I just know we weren't allowed to yell something like "Hey, are these your *****!?"


----------



## Jlarson (Jun 28, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Am I the only one who occaisionally uses a hacksaw?


No, my hacksaw still rides on the handle of my tool bag. I'd much rather use my porta-band, sawzalls, grinders, chop saw or whatever but the hacksaw still has a place.


----------



## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Maybe it was "diagonal cutting pliers" Chit I don't remember everything that was like 9 years ago. I call them ***** and I just know we weren't allowed to yell something like "Hey, are these your *****!?"



diagonal cutting pliers..Yea thats it:laughing::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Jlarson said:


> No, my hacksaw still rides on the handle of my tool bag. I'd much rather use my porta-band, sawzalls, grinders, chop saw or whatever but the hacksaw still has a place.


 Yes it does in your tool bag..:laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> diagonal cutting pliers..Yea thats it:laughing::laughing:


Doesn't really matter I don't use them anyway. ***** are gay. BTW I asked the group at lunch today if they have ever twisted their wires with linesmans before installing wirenuts and the reactions were priceless.  "Why the phuck would you do that!" "Sounds like a waste of time!" "Oh I saw that on This Old House one time it looked pretty stupid."


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Doesn't really matter I don't use them anyway. ***** are gay. BTW I asked the group at lunch today if they have ever twisted their wires with linesmans before installing wirenuts and the reactions were priceless.  "Why the phuck would you do that!" "Sounds like a waste of time!" "Oh I saw that on This Old House one time it looked pretty stupid."


 :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> Doesn't really matter I don't use them anyway. ***** are gay.


Really? I'd say that dikes are my most important tool. I use them WAY more than sidecutters. Cut wire, pull nails, cut nails, strip MC.

What do you use to strip MC? Tell me it's not a roto split :jester:





> BTW I asked the group at lunch today if they have ever twisted their wires with linesmans before installing wirenuts and the reactions were priceless.  "Why the phuck would you do that!" "Sounds like a waste of time!" "Oh I saw that on This Old House one time it looked pretty stupid


:laughing:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Really? I'd say that dikes are my most important tool. I use them WAY more than sidecutters. Cut wire, pull nails, cut nails, strip MC.
> 
> What do you use to strip MC? Tell me it's not a roto split :jester:
> 
> ...


I'm guessing residential?

I saw this practice often in resi.


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## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> I'm guessing residential?
> 
> I saw this practice often in resi.


Even in resi work my dikes are #1. They are lighter and easier to operate for cable cutting. If it's bigger cable, you can nip at it. trying to cut 8/3 NM with your didecuters is like trying to eat a sandwich that's to big.

Also, when I have to remove a nail on box, the dikes easily grab the nail head. They are great staple pullers too.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Even in resi work my dikes are #1. They are lighter and easier to operate for cable cutting. If it's bigger cable, you can nip at it. trying to cut 8/3 NM with your didecuters is like trying to eat a sandwich that's to big.
> 
> Also, when I have to remove a nail on box, the dikes easily grab the nail head. They are great staple pullers too.


That's what I was saying. I'd see the "pros" forgo the linemans for the ***** most every time in residential. I started to get good twisting my grounds together with them.

It was foreign to me because it was the other way around in big commercial. Always cutting screws, gripping nuts, cutting fishtape, banging on things etc, ***** took a backseat on jobs like that.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

220/221 said:


> Really? I'd say that dikes are my most important tool. I use them WAY more than sidecutters. Cut wire, pull nails, cut nails, strip MC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I use a roto split if I'm running a substantial amount of MC. The real roto split, not that crap greenlee POS. If I'm just running one or two pieces of MC I'll snap it and cut with these things http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/j63050.html They're a little on the bulky side but not too bad.


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## RePhase277 (Feb 5, 2008)

If I have just one or two fittings to make up on some MC, there's no sense in running to the truck to hunt the RotoSplit. But there is no way I would run a substantial amount without it. I know some of you guys will challenge with some macho crap about being able to do more with your dikes than me with a RotoSplit... And I call bull puckey. I have had that race too many times.

The real RotoSplit, properly adjusted, will pop MC with one or two turns. I'll have the anti-short on and the connector in the box before you get the dikes out of your pocket.:laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

InPhase277 said:


> The real RotoSplit, properly adjusted, will pop MC with one or two turns. I'll have the anti-short on and the connector in the box before you get the dikes out of your pocket.:laughing:


Yup, I've heard that crap before too. Some guys always insist it's faster to use ***** but it's not even close. If you want to make it even faster forget the stupid anti short.


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

Love the *****, #3 tool in my opinion after linesmans and screwdriver, however do not see how to twist things together with them ?


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

OK, now I'm imagining it, you grab it as if you were cutting it, but don't apply enough pressure to cut, and then twist it... ?

Have never tried that.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Flashlight said:


> however do not see how to twist things together with them ?


Don't worry about it, twisting is an _unnecessary waste of time_


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> ... If you want to make it even faster forget the stupid anti short.


Do you at least nip off the sharp end of the jacket ?


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> Don't worry about it, twisting is an _unnecessary waste of time_


That's what they tell you on the wirenut box !

But I was taught to twist.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Flashlight said:


> Do you at least nip off the sharp end of the jacket ?


No. That is not what an antishort is intended to protect against anyway. An anti short is to protect from a rotoslit that is improperly adjusted and cuts thru the metal sheath into the insulation of the conductor.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Flashlight said:


> But I was taught to twist.



Then you should be relieved to know you don't need to do it. Nobody does it around these parts and we don't have any problems so I think it's stood the test of time.


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> No. That is not what an antishort is intended to protect against anyway. An anti short is to protect from a rotoslit that is improperly adjusted and cuts thru the metal sheath into the insulation of the conductor.


Not sure of the original intent of the redhead, but it seems to me it protects against both. Have seen shorts from the edge of the jacket, combined with poor installation in the first place.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Flashlight said:


> Not sure of the original intent of the redhead, but it seems to me it protects against both. Have seen shorts from the edge of the jacket, combined with poor installation in the first place.


Our shop installs literally MILLIONS of them per year without anti shorts and I have never heard of one shorting out. In fact the only time I've ever seen a 40AST short out was at my last shop and it was installed WITH the anti short by some bull **** bitch.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Flashlight said:


> Not sure of the original intent of the redhead, but it seems to me it protects against both. Have seen shorts from the edge of the jacket, combined with poor installation in the first place.


 Useing Red heads with MC cable will not kill you..:laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Our shop installs literally MILLIONS of them per year without anti shorts and I have never heard of one shorting out.


 Thats because you have not had any blow up in your face.....


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Thats because you have not had any blow up in your face.....


Most of them are in the wall so it would be kinda hard for them to blow up in my face. Besides, if we had a hot check issue like that the news would spread like wild fire.


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> Most of them are in the wall so it would be kinda hard for them to blow up in my face. Besides, if we had a hot check issue like that the news would spread like wild fire.


Antishorts are a habit I picked up from working with BX before there was MC at least in our area. And I have seen shorts without them. I know they are not required with MC with certain connectors, but I still prefer to use them.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> Most of them are in the wall so it would be kinda hard for them to blow up in my face. Besides, if we had a hot check issue like that the news would spread like wild fire.


 Years ago i was making up MC cable in a box above a ceiling and i did not use a red head and boom right in my face ,,,,,,,,no i did not get injured but could have..


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Years ago i was making up MC cable in a box above a ceiling and i did not use a red head and boom right in my face ,,,,,,,,no i did not get injured but could have..


What kind of MC connector did you use?

Why were you making it up hot?


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> What kind of MC connector did you use?
> 
> Why were you making it up hot?


It was 1997 that was the way it was not that long ago..

Steel T&B the best ones ....Roto spits can nik the wires and it will happen..


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

HARRY304E said:


> ....Roto spits can nik the wires and it will happen..


Like every tool they need to be kept in tune and paid attention to.

But IMO when working properly they are the best method. And I come from the strip it with a hacksaw generation...


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Steel T&B the best ones


Should have tried Arlington push ons the real bestest ones.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Flashlight said:


> Like every tool they need to be kept in tune and paid attention to.



Everyone pays attention to Harry.


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## captkirk (Nov 21, 2007)

HARRY304E said:


> You can strip 750's with these.:laughing:


 WOW  whats the price for a set of those..? those look nice


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> Should have tried Arlington push ons the real bestest ones.


There's a lot of great products around, I see that when I travel. Around here they need to have NYC approval not just listing. Haven't seen push ons, my favorite are the single screw saddle type connector. Not sure of mfr.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

Flashlight said:


> There's a lot of great products around, I see that when I travel. Around here they need to have NYC approval not just listing. Haven't seen push ons, my favorite are the single screw saddle type connector. Not sure of mfr.


If they require a set screw they should have the antishort as it could push the metal sheath into a damaged conductor.


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> No. That is not what an antishort is intended to protect against anyway. An anti short is to protect from a rotoslit that is improperly adjusted and cuts thru the metal sheath into the insulation of the conductor.


Is that a fact?

An anti short is simply to protect sharp edges of the metal from peircing the conductors plain and simple. If you can't take 2 seconds to put on one to ensure it won't short out YOU ARE A HACK.

I don't care if you installed 1 or 1 million mc circuits without them YOU ARE A HACK.

If they are not needed or such a silly thing why do they include a pack with the cable?


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> If they are not needed or such a silly thing why do they include a pack with the cable?


I've been in this discussion enough times to actually call an MC cable manufacturer and ask "why do you guys send anti shorts with the cable if they're not required" and the answer was SOME local city codes require them. They are not required by code or the manufacturer.


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> I've been in this discussion enough times to actually call an MC cable manufacturer and ask "why do you guys send anti shorts with the cable if they're not required" and the answer was SOME local city codes require them. They are not required by code or the manufacturer.


I don't care about not being required by code or manufacturer i use them all the time. And if local city codes require them they share the same concerns of sharp edge metal being a hairline away from conductors.

Again it takes 2 seconds to put them on to ensure no problems so why not?


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> Again it takes 2 seconds to put them on to ensure no problems so why not?


2 seconds? I doubt that. Lets be realistic here. 5 additional seconds minimum per connector. 5 seconds X 1,000,000 connectors = 1388 HOURS of labor. That's gonna cost the shop over $30,000 that's why.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> I don't care about not being required by code or manufacturer i use them all the time. And if local city codes require them they share the same concerns of sharp edge metal being a hairline away from conductors.
> 
> Again it takes 2 seconds to put them on to ensure no problems so why not?


 That goes a long way.....


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

IMO it is really dumb to not to use the bushing for MC cable.. you have some serious issues if that extra labor bothers you.. :blink::blink:


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> 2 seconds? I doubt that. Lets be realistic here. 5 additional seconds minimum per connector. 5 seconds X 1,000,000 connectors = 1388 HOURS of labor. That's gonna cost the shop over $30,000 that's why.


So with that logic if don't work all 8 hours total of your shift your costing the company money. If you stop to scratch your balls that takes a second. If you stop to take a drink that costs money.

You have a weird way of thinking


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

B4T said:


> IMO it is really dumb to not to use the bushing for MC cable.. you have some serious issues if that extra labor bothers you.. :blink::blink:


 In IMO just treat it like BX and your good..:laughing:


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> 2 seconds? I doubt that. Lets be realistic here. 5 additional seconds minimum per connector. 5 seconds X 1,000,000 connectors = 1388 HOURS of labor. That's gonna cost the shop over $30,000 that's why.


Compare that to the time you spent talking to someone on the job or going out to get something from the truck you forgot to bring with you..

There are always wasted minutes on a job with anyone unless you are a robot working for GM..


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## pawirenut (May 28, 2008)

Malaking_TT said:


> 2 seconds? I doubt that. Lets be realistic here. 5 additional seconds minimum per connector. 5 seconds X 1,000,000 connectors = 1388 HOURS of labor. That's gonna cost the shop over $30,000 that's why.


Are you jza's brother or his fake nick? You are just as annoying as him.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> So with that logic if don't work all 8 hours total of your shift your costing the company money. If you stop to scratch your balls that takes a second. If you stop to take a drink that costs money.
> 
> You have a weird way of thinking



weird :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

B4T said:


> Compare that to the time you spent talking to someone on the job or going out to get something from the truck you forgot to bring with you..
> 
> There are always wasted minutes on a job with anyone unless you are a robot working for GM..


I don't talk on the job unless it's work related. I also don't go out to the truck to get anything. I set up my carts, chargers, cords, lift and anything else I need at the beginning of the day. I keep my gangbox in my work area and If I need something I write it down and move on and let the foreman know at break.


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

B4T said:


> unless you are a robot working for GM..


Yeah, and then all you would do is crank out a piece of crap product. 

FK GM! 

~Matt


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

pawirenut said:


> So with that logic if don't work all 8 hours total of your shift your costing the company money. If you stop to scratch your balls that takes a second. If you stop to take a drink that costs money.
> 
> You have a weird way of thinking


So if you got 2000 guys in the field and each of them scratch their balls on average 6 times per day at 4 seconds per scratch that's 13.3 hours wasted per day.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

Malaking_TT said:


> So if you got 2000 guys in the field and each of them scratch their balls on average 6 times per day at 4 seconds per scratch that's 13.3 hours wasted per day.


 That can cost some bucks


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> I don't talk on the job unless it's work related. I also don't go out to the truck to get anything. I set up my carts, chargers, cords, lift and anything else I need at the beginning of the day. I keep my gangbox in my work area and If I need something I write it down and move on and let the foreman know at break.


Use the bushing and the world will be a better place.. :no::laughing:

If you get one short circuit it will be equal to installing 4,320 bushings in (3) hours unless you drop one on the ground.. let me re-calculate that for you..:laughing:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> That can cost some bucks


Yeah but the trick is to scratch them while doing something else such as pushing your cart into the next room so you can maintain your productivity.


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

B4T said:


> Use the bushing and the world will be a better place.. :no::laughing:
> 
> If you get one short circuit it will be equal to installing 4,320 bushings in (3) hours unless you drop one on the ground.. let me re-calculate that for you..:laughing:


So lets just say we get 3 per year that I've never heard of, that equals 9 hours of trouble shooting. BFD we already saved 1388 hours on the initial install.


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## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Malaking_TT said:


> So lets just say we get 3 per year that I've never heard of, that equals 9 hours of trouble shooting. BFD we already saved 1388 hours on the initial install.


I live in the real world, use bushing for MC, and never felt like I wasted time doing it..

Good luck with your way of thinking.. :thumbsup:


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

B4T said:


> I live in the real world


I thought you live in New York?


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

How many tek screws do you use when installing a Colorado Jim AKA CJ6?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> How many tek screws do you use when installing a Colorado Jim AKA CJ6?


seven and a half.

~Matt


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## Malaking_TT (Dec 17, 2010)

TOOL_5150 said:


> seven and a half.
> 
> ~Matt



That's it?


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Malaking_TT said:


> That's it?


Thats my final answer.

~Matt


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## Flashlight (Jan 31, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> If they require a set screw they should have the antishort as it could push the metal sheath into a damaged conductor.


It's not a set screw really, like the typical old-school bx connector. The screw just seats the saddle securely across the cable, excellent connection. But I always use anti-shorts anyway.


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## bread tie (Jul 12, 2011)

*NM sheath*

I am working on a job where they cut NM sheath with some new type of strippers and they cut all of the conductors clean maby they were not useing them properly I would beware of them. I like those #4 i think they call them with the screw cutter thats if i don`t screw the screw in backwards.


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## HARRY304E (Sep 15, 2010)

bread tie said:


> I am working on a job where they cut NM sheath with some new type of strippers and they cut all of the conductors clean maby they were not useing them properly I would beware of them. I like those #4 i think they call them with the screw cutter thats if i don`t screw the screw in backwards.


You can start a new thread about that instead of The resurrection of an old thread ........


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## NewSparky24 (Jul 25, 2012)

*Could Be Wrong?*



dowmace said:


> I work on a lot of industrial machinery when something vibrates hard enough to loosen large bolts I'm going to do everything I can to keep things together.
> 
> Yes it may be a bitch to take it apart later but I'd rather deal with that than a loose connection screwing something up down the line.


 
I am a student at Vatterott College to become an Electrician. When I was in my residential class, I saw another student twist the wires all the way back with his linemans pliers, and not only did it look clean, it made it easier to put them in the box. I tried this technique, and when I had to take it apart, all I did was grasp the ends with my lineman pliers and twist the other way. It didn't seem to difficult. I'm not sure if I like the whole twist all the way back idea though. Any advice? Thanks.


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## hardworkingstiff (Jan 22, 2007)

brian john said:


> Been there, I had one pair of Kleins that could strip 4/0.:blink:


I believe there is a stealth story here. :laughing:


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## Hippie (May 12, 2011)

InPhase277 said:


> If I have just one or two fittings to make up on some MC, there's no sense in running to the truck to hunt the RotoSplit. But there is no way I would run a substantial amount without it. I know some of you guys will challenge with some macho crap about being able to do more with your dikes than me with a RotoSplit... And I call bull puckey. I have had that race too many times.
> 
> The real RotoSplit, properly adjusted, will pop MC with one or two turns. I'll have the anti-short on and the connector in the box before you get the dikes out of your pocket.:laughing:


What do you use to cut the plastic out of the MC with? With a roto split that's just an extra tool to carry and extra motions to do over and over.. Unless you're one of those people that leaves it hanging out of the back of the connector


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

dowmace said:


> I twist all of my wirenuts by hand and I keep twisting until the wire is twisted to the back of the box, I know the joint will not come apart at that point.


I twist my wirenuts until I get a call from the power company telling me to cut that out.....


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> 2 seconds? I doubt that. Lets be realistic here. 5 additional seconds minimum per connector. 5 seconds X 1,000,000 connectors = 1388 HOURS of labor. That's gonna cost the shop over $30,000 that's why.


Sounds like some of those ******** "time study engineers" we used to deal with years ago. The people still cheated like h*ll. :whistling2:


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## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Just an FYI that this is a necromanced thread.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

Malaking_TT said:


> I've been in this discussion enough times to actually call an MC cable manufacturer and ask "why do you guys send anti shorts with the cable if they're not required" and the answer was SOME local city codes require them. They are not required by code or the manufacturer.


That's a new one on me. I thought it was a code requirement to use them. The set screw connectors have a tiny hole punched in them so the inspector can observe if they were used.


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## retiredsparktech (Mar 8, 2011)

TOOL_5150 said:


> Yeah, and then all you would do is crank out a piece of crap product.
> 
> FK GM!
> 
> ~Matt


GM cars are great, for the first two years. Then watch out.


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## Briancraig81 (May 25, 2007)

retiredsparktech said:


> That's a new one on me. I thought it was a code requirement to use them. The set screw connectors have a tiny hole punched in them so the inspector can observe if they were used.


There required by code for AC cable but not MC. I use them for both just to be safe.


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