# Garbage Disposal and Dishwasher on same circuit.



## electures

1/3 HP Disposal, 6.8 amps, 120V
Dishwasher 9.9 amps, 120V

Are they permitted on the same 20 amp circuit. I will reserve my thoughts for later.

PLEASE VOTE!!


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## jwjrw

No it's a violation because one motor pulls more than half the circuit.


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## electures

jwjrw said:


> No because one motor pulls more than half the circuit.


Did you vote?


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## jwjrw

electures said:


> Did you vote?



Nope......:no:


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## electures

jwjrw said:


> Nope......:no:


 Please vote. It is easier to keep track of. Thanks!!


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## Cletis

*No/Yes*

No / Yes

20 amp cir. NO 

30 amp cir. YES


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## electures

Cletis said:


> No / Yes
> 
> 20 amp cir. NO
> 
> 30 amp cir. YES


Guess I should clarify what size circuit, Huh?


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## Mr Rewire

210.23(a) (2)


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## Cletis

*humm*

210.23(A)(2) 50% rule fastened in place 20 amp

Yes


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## jwjrw

electures said:


> Guess I should clarify what size circuit, Huh?


:no:

Don't feed the troll.........


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## Speedy Petey

The 50% rule only applies if: "_lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied._" 

This is not the case. No lighting is supplied, nor is any cord and plug non-fastened in place equipment. 
If all equipment on the circuit is fastened in place the 50% rule does not apply.


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## Speedy Petey

> *(2)* *Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place.* The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.


.....


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## jwjrw

Speedy Petey said:


> The 50% rule only applies if: "_lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied._"
> 
> This is not the case. No lighting is supplied, nor is any cord and plug non-fastened in place equipment.
> If all equipment on the circuit is fastened in place the 50% rule does not apply.



I forgot all about that................:whistling2:
We always pull a 3 wire. One circuit for each.


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## raider1

I agree with Petey.

Chris


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## Shockdoc

jwjrw said:


> No it's a violation because one motor pulls more than half the circuit.


25 amp ocpd.


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## user4818

I've put them both on a single 15 amp circuit before. I prefer to put them both on one 20 or 2 15's, but I don't have the slightest issue with one 15 amp circuit for both.


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## captkirk

mine isnt usually on for more than a couple of seconds. For some reason I ran two 20's under my sink but its total overkill . I usually just put one 20 for both.


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## cultch

I would feel a little uncomfortable if the load was 16.7amps on a 15amp breaker w/ 14 wire. It would probably only reach that level for a few seconds a day on avg but over the years it could cause problems and it's way over 80%.

I would feel better w/ 2 15 amp circuits. I will say it's been a few years since I wired a house. If ya ran 2 15 amp circuits is there anything else you could hit w/ one of them? Lights...nah, fridge...nah. 

I'd go 2-15 amp circuits but 1 would probably never give ya problems...probably.

I remember them being seperate when I was doing houses.


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## BIGRED

I remember when I first started, the disposal and the light over the sink on one circuit.


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## Speedy Petey

BIGRED said:


> I remember when I first started, the disposal and the light over the sink on one circuit.


Now in THIS example the disp cannot be more than 50%.


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## tkb

Speedy Petey said:


> The 50% rule only applies if: "_lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied._"
> 
> This is not the case. No lighting is supplied, nor is any cord and plug non-fastened in place equipment.
> If all equipment on the circuit is fastened in place the 50% rule does not apply.





electures said:


> 1/3 HP Disposal, 6.8 amps, 120V
> Dishwasher 9.9 amps, 120V
> 
> Are they permitted on the same 20 amp circuit. I will reserve my thoughts for later.
> 
> PLEASE VOTE!!


I say yes, 9.9 is not 50% of a 20 amp circuit if the 50% rule applied anyway. It is not a continuous load.


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## micromind

I don't do a lot of resi, but I always pull a 14/3, one circuit for the D/W, the other for the disp.

I don't like #12 to a D/W; first it's overkill, and even worse, it's much more difficult to make up in that itty-bitty Jbox under the D/W!!


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## tkb

jwjrw said:


> No it's a violation because one motor pulls more than half the circuit.


You flunked math in school didn't you?

9.9 is less than 50% of 20.


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## gold

Why would the gd run at the same time as the dw anyway?


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## Wirenuting

gold said:


> Why would the gd run at the same time as the dw anyway?


Because I wash the dishes at the same time I do the pots in the sink.


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## gold

Wirenuting said:


> Because I wash the dishes at the same time I do the pots in the sink.


ok so, the dw doesn't constantly run at 9.9 only certain cycles. There may be 16.7 for a few seconds on a 20 amp circuit with 12 awg. 

Whats the problem with that? Would 4/0 be better?


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## HARRY304E

If you are running the garbage disposal more then ten seconds then they should take a cooking class..:laughing:


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## Wirenuting

gold said:


> ok so, the dw doesn't constantly run at 9.9 only certain cycles. There may be 16.7 for a few seconds on a 20 amp circuit with 12 awg.
> 
> Whats the problem with that? Would 4/0 be better?


Based on my cooking skills and my ability to burn and harden food. 4/0 might squeak by. 
Other then that, mine are separate 20 amp circuits. The DW came listing a 20 min when I installed it. It has a sanitation kill cycle thing. And a water preheat cycle also. It might be an overkill, But man is it quiet. 

It did share a 15 when I bought the house.


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## Wirenuting

HARRY304E said:


> If you are running the garbage disposal more then ten seconds then they should take a cooking class..:laughing:


Hey, what's you mean.


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## gold

Wirenuting said:


> Based on my cooking skills and my ability to burn and harden food. 4/0 might squeak by.
> Other then that, mine are separate 20 amp circuits. The DW came listing a 20 min when I installed it. It has a sanitation kill cycle thing. And a water preheat cycle also. It might be an overkill, But man is it quiet.
> 
> It did share a 15 when I bought the house.


Now your changing the rules in the middle of the game the OP said 1/3 horse.


electures said:


> 1/3 HP Disposal, 6.8 amps, 120V
> Dishwasher 9.9 amps, 120V
> 
> Are they permitted on the same 20 amp circuit. I will reserve my thoughts for later.
> 
> PLEASE VOTE!!


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## Meadow

95 percent of the time I pull 14/3 and call it a day. I may also put the sink light on the disposer circuit if its not to much.


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## HARRY304E

Wirenuting said:


> Hey, what's you mean.


Not you just in general


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## guschash

I usually run 2-20amps circuits. I like to run #12 for all receptacle circuits, I know its over kill but there seems to be more things being plugged in these days.


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## electricmanscott

guschash said:


> I usually run 2-20amps circuits. I like to run #12 for all receptacle circuits, I know its over kill but there seems to be more things being plugged in these days.


How would there be too many things plugged in to the dw-disp circuit?

More electricians, and inspectors should read this thread.


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## BBQ

guschash said:


> I usually run 2-20amps circuits. I like to run #12 for all receptacle circuits, I know its over kill but there seems to be more things being plugged in these days.


So run more circuits, not larger circuits.


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## guschash

I didn't mean the diswasher/disp., I meant the over recpetacles circuits.:no:


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## cultch

guschash said:


> I didn't mean the diswasher/disp., I meant the over recpetacles circuits.:no:


That's code.


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## Speedy Petey

guschash said:


> I didn't mean the diswasher/disp., I meant the over recpetacles circuits.:no:


I think you can see the other's confusion as this thread is about DW and disp circuits. :whistling2:


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## Speedy Petey

cultch said:


> That's code.


What's code?


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## cultch

Speedy Petey said:


> What's code?


What guschash was saying. 2 20 amp circuits over the counter top in the kitchen. It's NOT we're talking about here.


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## gold

guschash said:


> I usually run 2-20amps circuits. I like to run #12 for all receptacle circuits, I know its over kill but there seems to be more things being plugged in these days.


Waste of money.


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## KayJay

I would say yes, if you know for sure that the dishwasher manufacturer doesn’t require their equipment to be supplied by a 15 or 20A individual branch circuit. 
I guess you could be proactive and run it by the inspector beforehand, to see what he says.
Seems most resi grade disposal manufactures only care about having a switch within reach of the sink, so could probably care less about how you supply their equipment.


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## Southeast Power

This is what my dishwasher installation guide says:


You must have:
■ 120-volt, 60 Hz, AC-only, 15 or 20 amp fused electrical supply.
■ Copper wire only.
We recommend:
■ A time-delay fuse or circuit breaker.
■ A separate circuit.
If direct wiring dishwasher:
■ Use flexible, armored or nonmetallic sheathed, copper wire
with grounding wire that meets the wiring requirements for
your home and local codes and ordinances.
■ Use strain relief method provided with house wiring junction
box or install a UL Listed/CSA Approved clamp connector to
the house wiring junction box. If using conduit, use a
UL Listed/CSA Approved conduit connector.
If connecting dishwasher with a power supply cord:
■ Use Power Supply Cord Kit (Part Number 4317824) marked
for use with dishwashers. Kit contents include:
■ Voltex, Inc., UL Listed 16-gauge 3 wire power supply cord
with 3 prong grounded plug.
■ Neer C-500 ⁷⁄₈" strain relief.
■ 3 wire connectors.
■ Part Number 302797 grommet.
Follow the kit instructions for installing the power supply cord.
■ Power supply cord must plug into a mating three prong,
grounded outlet, located in the cabinet next to the dishwasher
opening. Outlet must meet all local codes and ordinances.
IMPORTANT: If you plan to install a garbage disposer, an
additional separate 120-volt, 60 Hz, AC-only, 15 or 20 amp fused
electrical supply is required.

link:

http://www.kitchenaid.com/flash.cmd?/#/product/KUDD03DTSS


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## BuzzKill

It's too bad DW's are rated for 10 amps; you never have 10 amps running at one time: you got the washing motor running at one time and then the heater after (if you even use it).


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## Skipp

Does this recepticle under the sink need to be GFI? I know it used to be ok for a standard recepticle. But it seems every NEC cycle more GFI requirements are added.


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## guest

BuzzKill said:


> It's too bad DW's are rated for 10 amps; *you never have 10 amps running at one time: you got the washing motor running at one time and then the heater after (if you even use it).*


That is incorrect on some (most) dishwashers sir. 

Many use the heater while the motor is running to heat the water back up to proper temperature during wash or rinse cycles. Mine also has "Temperature Boost" to heat the water even more. (Maytag Performa Portable)

For that reason, and the fact that most manufacturer's instructions call for a dedicated circuit, I voted no.


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## Podagrower

When I was doing resi, I was taught to pull a separate 20 amp circuit for the dishwasher and disposal. I've done it that way so long, I don't think I could force myself to do it any other way.

Now, let's say you use a 3 way switch:whistling2:. Yes it is a violation of the listing for the switch. But then your dishwasher and disposal can't run at the same time. Works well when you forget a homerun (once), I suppose you could build a relay setup under the sink to accomplish the same thing.


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## gold

Podagrower said:


> When I was doing resi, I was taught to pull a separate 20 amp circuit for the dishwasher and disposal. I've done it that way so long, I don't think I could force myself to do it any other way.
> 
> Now, let's say you use a 3 way switch:whistling2:. Yes it is a violation of the listing for the switch. But then your dishwasher and disposal can't run at the same time. Works well when you forget a homerun (once), I suppose you could build a relay setup under the sink to accomplish the same thing.


Why tho? Its 16.9 amps on a 20 amp circuit for an occasional few seconds.


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## Island Electric

I was taught to pull separate 20 amp circuits for the DW and GD. 
In my neck of the woods here they want a disconnect for the DW under the sink. 

I just wanted to add the last time I hooked up a disposal off of an existing 15 amp screw in fuse under the sink with 20 amp wire.... I had to go back because it blew the screw in 15a fuse. I went back with a 20 amp fuse and amped the circuit with my fluke rms. It drew 14.?? on start up and if I remember correctly 11 running with some food in there. So be careful. I would imagine the cheap ones have a low draw but the higher end models may draw more. I'm sorry I can't remember what size it was. All was fine after the fuse swap.


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## 220/221

Here it's one 20A circuit, half switched recep under the sink. 

SOP since the 70's


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## raider1

Skipp said:


> Does this recepticle under the sink need to be GFI? I know it used to be ok for a standard recepticle. But it seems every NEC cycle more GFI requirements are added.


Depends on if the receptacle under the sink is in a kitchen or not. A receptacle installed under a wet bar sink for a disposal would need to be GFCI protected but a receptacle installed under a sink in a kitchen would not.:thumbup:

Only receptacles serving the countertop in kitchens require GFCI protection whereas all receptacles within 6' of the edge of a wet bar sink require GFCI protection.

Chris


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## raider1

mxslick said:


> That is incorrect on some (most) dishwashers sir.
> 
> Many use the heater while the motor is running to heat the water back up to proper temperature during wash or rinse cycles. Mine also has "Temperature Boost" to heat the water even more. (Maytag Performa Portable)
> 
> For that reason, and the fact that most manufacturer's instructions call for a dedicated circuit, I voted no.


If the manufacturer *Recommends* that the appliance be on a dedicated circuit then that is not a 110.3(B) requirement. It would only be a listing requirement if the instructions mandated or required a dedicated circuit.

Chris


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## I_get_shocked

This is a good thread. I believe that the single 20A circuit is legal and will suffice based on the articles cited so far, so long as the mfg doesn't require any dedicated circuits.


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## Mr. Troubleshooter

electures said:


> 1/3 HP Disposal, 6.8 amps, 120V
> Dishwasher 9.9 amps, 120V
> 
> Are they permitted on the same 20 amp circuit. I will reserve my thoughts for later.
> 
> PLEASE VOTE!!


I'm not sure. I don't know much about motors but I don't see no reason not to put them both on the same 20 amp


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## Shockdoc

I need to do this tommorow , customer added a disposal unit.


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## Ponderosa electric

electures said:


> 1/3 HP Disposal, 6.8 amps, 120V
> Dishwasher 9.9 amps, 120V
> 
> Are they permitted on the same 20 amp circuit. I will reserve my thoughts for later.
> 
> PLEASE VOTE!!


Yes here in AZ very common


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## macmikeman

raider1 said:


> Depends on if the receptacle under the sink is in a kitchen or not. A receptacle installed under a wet bar sink for a disposal would need to be GFCI protected but a receptacle installed under a sink in a kitchen would not.:thumbup:
> 
> Only receptacles serving the countertop in kitchens require GFCI protection whereas all receptacles within 6' of the edge of a wet bar sink require GFCI protection.
> 
> Chris


I'll take it we are talking about dwellings here and not commercial kitchens. 
Commercial kitchen, its gfi no matter where in the kitchen last time I checked.


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## raider1

macmikeman said:


> I'll take it we are talking about dwellings here and not commercial kitchens.
> Commercial kitchen, its gfi no matter where in the kitchen last time I checked.


Correct, what I was referring too was a dwelling unit requirement.

Chris


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