# Very heavy chandelier hanging?



## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

Hello, I do a lot of residential service and a local lighting store has been passing out my cards for a few years now so I sometimes get asked to hang some crazy stuff. I received a call from a fella today who is debating on buying a fixture that weighs in at 185 lbs once all of the glass pieces have been hung on it. 
So since these fixtures seem to not be going away anytime soon and nobody in my area wants anything to do with them I did some looking around on how the heck one is supposed to support a beast like this. The standard two 8-32 screws on the box just are not gonna cut it on this 

I only found one pre-made solution and it seems like a nice one but it's discontinued as far as I can see. 









Westinghouse Lighting 0180000 Heavy Chandelier and Fixture Brace - - Amazon.com


Westinghouse Lighting 0180000 Heavy Chandelier and Fixture Brace - - Amazon.com



www.amazon.com





Of course I could install a chandelier lift for these situations and that is probably the right solution. 

Does anyone use anything that will keep me out of the courtroom in the future? 

Thank you for any insight you may have. 
John.


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

What's the height?

Because if it's real high they'll need a lift to service it and you'll need a giant check to hang it.


----------



## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

MikeFL said:


> What's the height?
> 
> Because if it's real high they'll need a lift to service it and you'll need a giant check to hang it.


Its a two story foyer, a big check is the only way these are getting done. Yes, a lift is probably the way to go.


----------



## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

We hung a 600lb fixture one time in a new ritzi resi build. It was suspended from a large 200yo reclaimed white oak purlin by a pair of (IIRC) longish 5/8" lags, with proper pilot hole, per lighting manufacturer. Hoisted into place by by GC with a 12v Warne winch. Canopy was only about 15' AFF. 

The fixture's manufacturer should provide guidance a hardware for such a fixture.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

A fixture like that ought to come with a box and mounting hardware, packed right in there with it, along with a helper that gets drop shipped back to the manufacturer when you're done.


----------



## splatz (May 23, 2015)

That discontinued thing would be very easy to make, a piece of strut straddling the joists, then a piece of threaded rod hanging down through the box, and an eye nut on the end of the threaded rod, and some means of securing the eye nut so it can't spin off. According to the McMaster Carr site a 1/4-20 eye nut will support 500 pounds and a 3/8-16 over 1000#.

Now the questions, is it code compliant to run that through a box, and are you OK with assuming more / all of the liability if anything goes wrong? It might be better to just make life simple and install an approved lift. Let someone else do it if they don't want to spend that much money.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

I’ve not had to install any fixtures that big and heavy, but everyone who I’ve talked to that has, they installed a genie lift system. So i imagine genie lift might also carry some boxes rated for 500lbs.


----------



## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

I believe the lift comes with the box.


----------



## Dennis Alwon (May 9, 2009)

You cannot support the fixture from any box. You will need a box but what we have done was to put a piece of 2x6 between the ceiling joists and then put the loop thru the beam with washers and nuts above the ceiling. You need to see what comes with the fixture.


----------



## JohnJ65 (May 8, 2008)

Yes, I'm going to stop by the lighting store and see what comes with the fixture. 

I do like the way the Westinghouse bracket uses a 3/4" threaded rod and the little coupling that the wire can route through to terminate inside the box. It looks like the 3/4" rod comes through the 1/2" ko on the top of the octagon box and basically floats there with two 3/4" nuts on inside and outside. 

I'm just amazed that there is not a set procedure for fixtures of this size even though this is a very uncommon situation. Maybe in this situation its just assumed there will be a lift installed and maybe one should be installed. 

Thank you for your input, If I come up with a solution or even hang this beast I will update everyone. 

John.


----------



## LGLS (Nov 10, 2007)

Was this thing on display at the lighting store? Is there a website for the manufacturer? They would/should (as should the lighting store but these days... nothing is normal practical or common sense or expected) have guidance on proper hanging. Lean on the store because there's no sale if nobody will install it.


----------



## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

I have always used deep unistrut and the associated unistrut fittings for attachment to the structure. 1/2 rod is something like 6000 pounds. Double nutted and lock washers.
The only thing is sometimes depending on the fixture the structure peeks out and with an electrical box near by it is not as clean as some would think. I always get copper or stainless wire and support all outside fixture from swinging. I also order another set of glass before I hang it. A box in the attic is worth a million bucks.


----------



## NoBot (Oct 12, 2019)

Usually a fixture that heavy will hang from a large treaded nipple. Just above the canopy will be a Hickey where the wires leave the nipple and can be spliced in a box. The large nipple will be treaded into the Hickey and is designed to go through the back of the box, into the attic and be supported by a 2"x6" with a hole large enough for the nipple to pass through, but Strut is a better option. Large washers and double nuts support the nipple and fixture. Does that make sense?
For light lifts, we always use Aladdin Light Lift. They have four models from 200 to 1,000 lbs.


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

Didn’t SBRN post something here a few years ago about doing a big chandelier job and taking out an insurance policy on the light fixture beforehand? Pretty sure he said he charged something like $5k just to do the job.


----------



## mpcxl (Dec 9, 2015)

Can you get between sheet rock and joist ? If not , you need to drill into joist with at least 3/8 threaded jimmy johns. Make sure it grabs good


----------



## zoltan (Mar 15, 2010)

mpcxl said:


> Can you get between sheet rock and joist ? If not , you need to drill into joist with at least 3/8 threaded jimmy johns. Make sure it grabs good


What is a "jimmy johns"?


----------



## MHElectric (Oct 14, 2011)

zoltan said:


> What is a "jimmy johns"?





https://i.insider.com/5728eec491058428008c07e1?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp


----------



## Lightsmith (Oct 8, 2010)

Safest approach is to install a winch with remote and these are made specifically for handling heavy light fixtures. Once the winch is securely mounted per the manufacturer's specifications you can lower the wire and attach the fixture and winch it up into position - safely. Do you want to try to haul a 185 lbs chandelier up a ladder and have to pay for any damage done to it? Glass chandeliers can cost over $20,000 and so investing in a winch is part of the cost of the fixture for its owner. 

An Aladdin Light Lift with a 200 lb capacity retails for $800. If you download the installation guide you will know what will be required for mounting it in the ceiling.


----------



## Strut Guru (Apr 22, 2021)

A lift will work best but strut will definitely hold up to the weight you are talking about. I work at a strut manufacture and we do load testing constantly. I will say 99% of strut does not have UL approval of their load rating, as UL lists majority of strut as a cable raceway. Though most manufactures do their own independent load testing. So I can not speak for all strut manufactures but as our strut does have UL approved load rating, I can speak to the UL standard. The standard testing would be to do a simple beam with a uniform load of two individual part then for a single load will need to divide that by half.

So in short a span of 24" would be around 1700lbs max load (do note if UL listed will be 3x safety factor). You will need to divide that in half so your concentrated load will be around 850lbs way above your 185lbs requirement. Note the longer the strut the lower the uniform load.









Probably more info then you needed but I hope it helps.


----------



## SWDweller (Dec 9, 2020)

The load chart is handy as long as you remember the load is ultimately held by the structure that the strut is fastened to. Been using strut for decades, one of my go to products. Just bought some more for making my solar thermal panel holders on the side of my home. A bit of cutting and welding and hot water will be free as long as the sun shines in Arizona.


----------



## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

Last one I hung we put a 6" wide, 3/8" thick steel plate across the top of the ceiling joists with a hole drilled in the correct spot.
Mounted a 4/O box with a hole for a threaded rod with a hook on it to pass through and bolted to the plate.
This fixture weighed around two hundred pounds, with all the crystals, and was 100 years old.
No idea what the original support looked like, so we improvised.
Hung the main part of the fixture and started putting the crystals on.
These were real crystal and very expensive if we dropped one.
Took a day plus to hang all the crystals. 
Something like 1000 crystals.
18 foot ceiling so we had to assemble a scaffold in the foyer of the home and take it down at the end of the day, then reassembled in the morning.
Husband said we could leave it up, but oh no, the boss of the house said otherwise.
All the crystals had masking tape with a number on it so it could be put in its proper spot.
Had to clean the adhesive, dust and finger prints off every piece 
Fixture was beautiful when we lite it up.
Would hate to have to dust that thing.


----------

