# Normal to start at the shop instead of the Jobsite?



## 211023 (Apr 22, 2021)

Electriken01 said:


> Just started my pre apprentice in Ontario Canada. However, I was sent to the shop on my first day and was told to go to the shop "until further notice". Another guy who got the same company as me from my class was sent directly to the site. I was also told by other apprentices that they had to go through the same process (shop first) and its something normal they do with pre apprentices. Im not sure if its because they genuinely don't have work or are they testing us to see how we react to the trade. I don't mind working hard and doing the general labour stuff at the shop but my concern is how long am I going to be there instead of the job site. I want to be an electrician and I know its not going to happen over night but at least it would be better if I knew I was going in that direction. It has been a long journey getting in this apprenticeship to begin with but now its turning out to be something nothing more than a general labour job. I have tools ready to go and be used that are just sitting there. I asked the company again today and they told me they are not sure still and to hang tight. Again, I don't mind doing what im told and getting it done. I just don't want to be there for months. Ive heard people be at the shop for a year.
> 
> Any insight or similar experiences? Should I contact my councillor? Is this normal?
> 
> PS I don't want to make it seem like my attitude is not a shut up and do as you are told, I just want to make sure this is the norm. From my understanding we were told we would be dispatched to the site.


Welcome , I thought I was in the same boat. Good luck.


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## Kevin (Feb 14, 2017)

I've worked for some companies where you report to shop every morning then leave from the shop to go to a site, and I've worked for some companies where I head directly to site, and a mix of both.

For now I'd just suck it up and deal with it.

What is a "pre apprenticeship " anyway? You cannot do any electrical work without being an apprentice... it sounds like they want you at the shop to learn general things and see if you'll show up on time.


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## wiz1997 (Mar 30, 2021)

I spent my first six months , maybe less (45 years ago) in the shop.
Good place to learn the materials.
Ran the delivery truck picking up supplies and delivering them to various jobs around the city.
Occasionally a service truck driver might need someone to help with a wire pull for a few hours.
So instead of pulling someone off another job, the service truck driver came and picked me up.
Working in the shop is where a bunch of us started.
You never know what you'll be doing day to day.
Delivered prints to the City for approval and to get permits.
Owner of the company sent me to pick up lunch for everyone in the shop and bought me something too.
Learned how to bend 4" rigid while working in the shop.
Job needed a few offsets, instead of taking the bender to the job, we bent the conduits at the shop then delivered them.
Here in South Texas, riding around Houston during the summer in an air conditioned truck beat the heck out of digging ditches in 100F degree heat with 98% humidity.

This is the second post in the last week or so by an apprentice questioning whether starting work in the shop is normal.
The shop is a great place to meet the owner and get to know the shop foreman.
The shop Forman decides who goes to what job.
Don't whine about anything, just go with the flow.
You have the next 40 plus years to be out on the job.


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## Phillipd (Jan 7, 2020)

Electriken01 said:


> Just started my pre apprentice in Ontario Canada. However, I was sent to the shop on my first day and was told to go to the shop "until further notice". Another guy who got the same company as me from my class was sent directly to the site. I was also told by other apprentices that they had to go through the same process (shop first) and its something normal they do with pre apprentices. Im not sure if its because they genuinely don't have work or are they testing us to see how we react to the trade. I don't mind working hard and doing the general labour stuff at the shop but my concern is how long am I going to be there instead of the job site. I want to be an electrician and I know its not going to happen over night but at least it would be better if I knew I was going in that direction. It has been a long journey getting in this apprenticeship to begin with but now its turning out to be something nothing more than a general labour job. I have tools ready to go and be used that are just sitting there. I asked the company again today and they told me they are not sure still and to hang tight. Again, I don't mind doing what im told and getting it done. I just don't want to be there for months. Ive heard people be at the shop for a year.
> 
> Any insight or similar experiences? Should I contact my councillor? Is this normal?
> 
> PS I don't want to make it seem like my attitude is not a shut up and do as you are told, I just want to make sure this is the norm. From my understanding we were told we would be dispatched to the site.



I agree with what Kevin says. Don’t see it as a punishment or that they don’t feel like you have potential. If it was that they don’t see potential in you or the work isn’t there they would lay you off. Use this as an opportunity to show that you can follow instructions and not complain. If inventory comes in maybe ask your shop foreman if it’s regular stock and goes on the shelf or should it be set aside because someone needs it for a current job underway. Tidy things up ,sweep floors, right now the broom is your employment stick. If you get bored stay off your phone until break time. I enjoy time at the shop when i can get it also, like Kevin said it’s a chance to get familiar with the items they normally use,what they’re called and where they are when you do go to the job site and your asked to get this or that. If you don’t know what something is and is used for and your foreman’s not busy at the moment ask. You will learn and show you are interested. Everything is in baby steps. Your being employed by an electrical contractor and when they are confident it’s time to get you on site they will. When you do get on site someday, do not do undo or cut anything that you haven’t been instructed to do. Don’t worry about asking questions , make sure you fully understand what they want you to do and how to do it. Do not assume you know and just start doing things, they have a plan and as long as your there your a part of it, patients is key.


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## Wirenuting (Sep 12, 2010)

Never worry about the other apprentices, only worry about yourself and you'll do just fine.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

If you are not registered as an apprentice with OCOT, then you can not do electrical work.
A pre apprentice can move material and do other tasks but no electrical work. 
Doing that at the shop or on a job site is no different


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Kevin said:


> What is a "pre apprenticeship " anyway?


1- Cheap labour for the contractor. Not allowed to do electrical work. Same as OYAP co-op students.
2- How to turn a 4 or 5 year apprenticeship into a 6 or 7 year long apprenticeship


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## kb1jb1 (Nov 11, 2017)

They could be sizing you up. Checking the times you show up. How you are dressed and general appearance. No drugs or alcohol. I remember seeing workers on line at the supply house and their appearance was very sketchy. If you go directly to the site the boss may never see you.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Also maybe there is nothing for you to do currently at one of their job sites. Again a pre apprentice in Ontario can not do actual electrical work.


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## HertzHound (Jan 22, 2019)

eddy current said:


> Also maybe there is nothing for you to do currently at one of their job sites. Again a pre apprentice in Ontario can not do actual electrical work.


There’s probably some post apprentices that can’t do electrical work either!


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

HertzHound said:


> There’s probably some post apprentices that can’t do electrical work either!


Oh for sure, but I’m talking about legally, not actually😜


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

Kevin said:


> I've worked for some companies where you report to shop every morning then leave from the shop to go to a site, and I've worked for some companies where I head directly to site, and a mix of both.
> 
> For now I'd just suck it up and deal with it.
> 
> What is a "pre apprenticeship " anyway? You cannot do any electrical work without being an apprentice... it sounds like they want you at the shop to learn general things and see if you'll show up on time.



Thanks for the input. I've chatted with other pre apprentices and some have done electrical work (building panels etc.) to some (like the other guy from my company) that are just running materials on the Jobsite. My concern is just not learning anything. I learn fast and I know I can apply myself but I do understand everyone has to start at the bottom and that yes maybe they are sizing me up and testing me. I show up on time (early actually im the first one at the shop everyday) and I do what im told and then some or ask "Whats next". I just don't want my potential to go to waste I am a bit older so I don't have the whole pride thing younger apprentices may have. I do what im told and that's that even if I don't like it .


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

wiz1997 said:


> I spent my first six months , maybe less (45 years ago) in the shop.
> Good place to learn the materials.
> Ran the delivery truck picking up supplies and delivering them to various jobs around the city.
> Occasionally a service truck driver might need someone to help with a wire pull for a few hours.
> ...



Thanks for the input. Our shop actually only has a "shop manager " and a JW. The foreman is Never or rarely in the shop. I actually haven't met him yet but then again its only been 2 days. As mentioned, my concern is just whether they do understand I am here to become an electrician not just a general worker. But I show up on time (actually the first one at the shop) and have been doing what im told and more. I will just go with the flow as you said. From what ive heard from other people in my class, they started at the shop as well.


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

Phillipd said:


> I agree with what Kevin says. Don’t see it as a punishment or that they don’t feel like you have potential. If it was that they don’t see potential in you or the work isn’t there they would lay you off. Use this as an opportunity to show that you can follow instructions and not complain. If inventory comes in maybe ask your shop foreman if it’s regular stock and goes on the shelf or should it be set aside because someone needs it for a current job underway. Tidy things up ,sweep floors, right now the broom is your employment stick. If you get bored stay off your phone until break time. I enjoy time at the shop when i can get it also, like Kevin said it’s a chance to get familiar with the items they normally use,what they’re called and where they are when you do go to the job site and your asked to get this or that. If you don’t know what something is and is used for and your foreman’s not busy at the moment ask. You will learn and show you are interested. Everything is in baby steps. Your being employed by an electrical contractor and when they are confident it’s time to get you on site they will. When you do get on site someday, do not do undo or cut anything that you haven’t been instructed to do. Don’t worry about asking questions , make sure you fully understand what they want you to do and how to do it. Do not assume you know and just start doing things, they have a plan and as long as your there your a part of it, patients is key.


You're right. What I have been doing is asking the shop manager if I can take a couple of hours each day to learn the material and he's been helping. The JW at the shop kind of does his own thing and I don't know whether to shadow him and watch or ask if he needs help so its a bit of grey area there. But for the most part I have been helping the manager organize the shop and helping him.


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

eddy current said:


> If you are not registered as an apprentice with OCOT, then you can not do electrical work.
> A pre apprentice can move material and do other tasks but no electrical work.
> Doing that at the shop or on a job site is no different



Other pre apprentices have told me they did some panel builds etc. Some have told me they just fetched material so I guess it varies.


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

kb1jb1 said:


> They could be sizing you up. Checking the times you show up. How you are dressed and general appearance. No drugs or alcohol. I remember seeing workers on line at the supply house and their appearance was very sketchy. If you go directly to the site the boss may never see you.


You may be correct. I do show up before anyone at the shop and I dress professional (not like a slob). So I've been putting my best foot forward this week doing what im told and going above and beyond. I had to clean a job cage of returned material by myself when the manager had to run an errand. And I could see the JW looking over and then he came over and asked if im doing alright. I just shut up and got it done.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

eddy current said:


> 1- Cheap labour for the contractor. Not allowed to do electrical work. Same as OYAP co-op students.
> 2- How to turn a 4 or 5 year apprenticeship into a 6 or 7 year long apprenticeship


I don't know. I took what was at the time a pre-apprenticeship course in college back in 1983. 10 month course, came out of it with my first 2 levels of schooling and 1+ (whatever the first employer thought was warranted) years of hours. Maybe thats what Electiken01 has under his belt.

Maybe he will eventually tell us what it means for him.....


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

eddy current said:


> Also maybe there is nothing for you to do currently at one of their job sites. Again a pre apprentice in Ontario can not do actual electrical work.



Its hard to say. They did send the other pre app to one of our job sites. But I've been told my Jobsite on Friday and they said the foreman just has to speak to the big boss before I get sent. They said maybe another day or 2 so im just waiting and going with the flow. Im learning the material while im there.


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

joe-nwt said:


> I don't know. I took what was at the time a pre-apprenticeship course in college back in 1983. 10 month course, came out of it with my first 2 levels of schooling and 1+ (whatever the first employer thought was warranted) years of hours. Maybe thats what Electiken01 has under his belt.
> 
> Maybe he will eventually tell us what it means for him.....



I have zero electrical experience. I went through the JAC intake to get in.


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## joe-nwt (Mar 28, 2019)

Electriken01 said:


> I have zero electrical experience. I went through the JAC intake to get in.


Gotcha. had to google it but it looks like a similar program that I took.


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

joe-nwt said:


> Gotcha. had to google it but it looks like a similar program that I took.



Sorry maybe I should've made that clear. The Pre app program was through the JAC/IBEW not from a school program of some sort lol.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Electriken01 said:


> Other pre apprentices have told me they did some panel builds etc. Some have told me they just fetched material so I guess it varies.


Legally no, you can not do electrical work in Ontario unless you are registered with OCOT as an apprentice.
Of course some contractors break the rules.


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## Phillipd (Jan 7, 2020)

Electriken01 said:


> I have zero electrical experience. I went through the JAC intake to get in.



Give it some time and if you think it’s the path you want to follow maybe consider looking into getting registered as an apprentice. The sooner you can start logging hours the quicker you’ll be on your way. Some of us are currently in studying for block 2 ,many of us agree that taking the 9 month course a year and a half ago really prepared us for the electrical theory math and code.


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## Electriken01 (Sep 19, 2020)

Phillipd said:


> Give it some time and if you think it’s the path you want to follow maybe consider looking into getting registered as an apprentice. The sooner you can start logging hours the quicker you’ll be on your way. Some of us are currently in studying for block 2 ,many of us agree that taking the 9 month course a year and a half ago really prepared us for the electrical theory math and code.



Yes the pre app is 1800 hours before you're pretty much an indentured official apprentice. I just thought the first bit wouldn't be just general labour.


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## Easy (Oct 18, 2017)

I wouldn't stress over it too much. Give it some time to see how it goes. This might be a great opportunity to see how the business end of the company functions. I'm sure there are valuable lessons you can learn at the shop. It could be worse, at least your not assigned to a lighting crew changing lamps and ballast for the next year or so. It's quite understandable that you want to get right in there and start doing electrical work. I would offer to organize things and learn where everything is so that when you are sent out on a job you will have an advantage over the other guys. Ask questions and let them know you are eager to learn. Much of what an electrician does is general labor but as you gain knowledge you will find the work to be more pleasant.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

I was on a job many years ago when a brand new, first day apprentice showed up. Crispy stiff carrhart everything, shiny boots, brand new stiff pouch full of every tool imaginable. Forman handed him a shovel, a pair of gloves and told him to put his tools back in his car. 😆

I am still in contact with him and he is a great electrician now.


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## u2slow (Jan 2, 2014)

Pre-app may simply be shop lingo for the less-experienced apprentices they use in the shop for labour and pre-fabbing items. They probably want the them to report to the shop as their 'floater' guys. Tasks or special circumstances may come up suddenly they have to throw some bodies at. Better than a layoff IMHO.

There's also the 1-2yr pre-apprenticeship programs (mentioned earlier) - my trade school ran those, plus the usual year/level training.


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## Matt Hermanson (Jul 18, 2009)

Electriken01 said:


> Just started my pre apprentice in Ontario Canada. However, I was sent to the shop on my first day and was told to go to the shop "until further notice". Another guy who got the same company as me from my class was sent directly to the site. I was also told by other apprentices that they had to go through the same process (shop first) and its something normal they do with pre apprentices. Im not sure if its because they genuinely don't have work or are they testing us to see how we react to the trade. I don't mind working hard and doing the general labour stuff at the shop but my concern is how long am I going to be there instead of the job site. I want to be an electrician and I know its not going to happen over night but at least it would be better if I knew I was going in that direction. It has been a long journey getting in this apprenticeship to begin with but now its turning out to be something nothing more than a general labour job. I have tools ready to go and be used that are just sitting there. I asked the company again today and they told me they are not sure still and to hang tight. Again, I don't mind doing what im told and getting it done. I just don't want to be there for months. Ive heard people be at the shop for a year.
> 
> Any insight or similar experiences? Should I contact my councillor? Is this normal?
> 
> PS I don't want to make it seem like my attitude is not a shut up and do as you are told, I just want to make sure this is the norm. From my understanding we were told we would be dispatched to the site.


The is a less expensive place to teach you the basics. By the time you show up at the job sites, way too many journey workers fail to understand that teaching you is actually in their job description.


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## Fletchou812 (Apr 1, 2021)

Electriken01 said:


> Just started my pre apprentice in Ontario Canada. However, I was sent to the shop on my first day and was told to go to the shop "until further notice". Another guy who got the same company as me from my class was sent directly to the site. I was also told by other apprentices that they had to go through the same process (shop first) and its something normal they do with pre apprentices. Im not sure if its because they genuinely don't have work or are they testing us to see how we react to the trade. I don't mind working hard and doing the general labour stuff at the shop but my concern is how long am I going to be there instead of the job site. I want to be an electrician and I know its not going to happen over night but at least it would be better if I knew I was going in that direction. It has been a long journey getting in this apprenticeship to begin with but now its turning out to be something nothing more than a general labour job. I have tools ready to go and be used that are just sitting there. I asked the company again today and they told me they are not sure still and to hang tight. Again, I don't mind doing what im told and getting it done. I just don't want to be there for months. Ive heard people be at the shop for a year.
> 
> Any insight or similar experiences? Should I contact my councillor? Is this normal?
> 
> PS I don't want to make it seem like my attitude is not a shut up and do as you are told, I just want to make sure this is the norm. From my understanding we were told we would be dispatched to the site.


As long as they are paying you, do as they say. They may need help at the shop. You can pick up a lot of working in the shop, learn all of the different parts, and the trade name's for them.


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## MrThrills (Jan 7, 2019)

You need to re-adjust your attitude if you're going to be a successful apprentice.

When you're coming into a trade with zero experience, you should expect to be doing "general labor" because that's all you're qualified to do at first. As you work the job, you'll slowly start to pick up on aspects of the trade from working around skilled tradespersons. Occasionally you'll be asked to help a journeyperson with a task, and you'll have an opportunity to see the work up close, do hands-on stuff, ask questions, and receive feedback. In my experience, I would say that doing electrical work independently as a freshly-indentured apprentice is unusual.

You ego is keeping you from appreciating the opportunity to work at the shop. Working at a shop as an apprentice, you will

Learn about materials and equipment: what they are, their function, and their assembly.
Get the chance to help prefabricate a whole spectrum of materials: from bending pipe to putting panels together to assembling lights.
Meet a whole bunch of higher ups as they pass through the shop
Since you're a pre apprentice, I'm assuming you're not taking any classes. _THAT_ is where you're getting screwed, but it's becoming the norm unfortunately. To make up for it, you should be finding opportunities to learn everywhere you go. And there's a ton you can learn working at the shop.


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## paulengr (Oct 8, 2017)

Are you complaining because you are forced to work in a clean dry location instead of outdoors in the rain and mud or itching in an attic somewhere?

Work is work. If they didn’t need work in the shop you’d be sitting at home. If our crew could spare a man for a couple days in the shop, straightening and restocking trucks, etc...we’d be very appreciative. Right now we just would rather cut back on overtime and weekends a bit. The money is good but not if you can’t spend it!


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## 211023 (Apr 22, 2021)

Electriken01 said:


> Just started my pre apprentice in Ontario Canada. However, I was sent to the shop on my first day and was told to go to the shop "until further notice". Another guy who got the same company as me from my class was sent directly to the site. I was also told by other apprentices that they had to go through the same process (shop first) and its something normal they do with pre apprentices. Im not sure if its because they genuinely don't have work or are they testing us to see how we react to the trade. I don't mind working hard and doing the general labour stuff at the shop but my concern is how long am I going to be there instead of the job site. I want to be an electrician and I know its not going to happen over night but at least it would be better if I knew I was going in that direction. It has been a long journey getting in this apprenticeship to begin with but now its turning out to be something nothing more than a general labour job. I have tools ready to go and be used that are just sitting there. I asked the company again today and they told me they are not sure still and to hang tight. Again, I don't mind doing what im told and getting it done. I just don't want to be there for months. Ive heard people be at the shop for a year.
> 
> Any insight or similar experiences? Should I contact my councillor? Is this normal?
> 
> PS I don't want to make it seem like my attitude is not a shut up and do as you are told, I just want to make sure this is the norm. From my understanding we were told we would be dispatched to the site.


I've been in the shop for half a day to organize some rigid and wires mostly .A little bit of this and that. It's the end of my 3rd week and I've been out for the rest of the time.
Whew, what a relieve 😆.


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## 211023 (Apr 22, 2021)

wiz1997 said:


> I spent my first six months , maybe less (45 years ago) in the shop.
> Good place to learn the materials.
> Ran the delivery truck picking up supplies and delivering them to various jobs around the city.
> Occasionally a service truck driver might need someone to help with a wire pull for a few hours.
> ...


We should merge this into one for some fun times.


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