# AMP connectors instead of junction box



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

These things?


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## mollydog (Jan 9, 2009)

i didnt see anything ? but they are white with the three openings and the clear part clamps down (looks like teeth that clamp on like the old temporary wiring sockets)


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## mollydog (Jan 9, 2009)

yea, thats them


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

mollydog said:


> i didnt see anything ? but they are white with the three openings and the clear part clamps down (looks like teeth that clamp on like the old temporary wiring sockets)


Did you click on the link?


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

Im pretty sure what youre talking about and if its what im thinking they are an approved method of concealed wire splicing.

Now with that being said I'd never use them in my house and there's no way in hell I'd use them in a customers house. They're a lawsuit waiting to happen.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

gilbequick said:


> Im pretty sure what youre talking about and if its what im thinking they are an approved method of concealed wire splicing.
> 
> Now with that being said I'd never use them in my house and there's no way in hell I'd use them in a customers house. They're a lawsuit waiting to happen.


I agree, 100%.

After reading the fine print, it looks to me like the devices are approved for mobile and prefab dwellings "without the use of boxes" but that doesn't imply (to me) that the splice doesn't have to be accessible. I haven't done any work on mobiles or prefabs, so I can't really say. Personally, I wouldn't use them if I wasn't the factory/assembler.


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## mollydog (Jan 9, 2009)

exactly..... imagine trying to find an open neutral with one of those in a buried wall.....


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## volty (Jan 14, 2009)

300.15(H) Allows for insulated devices without boxes, as permitted in 334.40(B).

334.40B " . . . shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed wiring and for rewiring in existing buldings where the cable is concealed and fished.

I haven't used any yet, and I haven't read the listing, or any instructions for them, but I can't find anything in NEC requiring these to remain accesible. It is likely the intent, what with the "exposed" wiring or "concealed and fished". But it sems to allow a tap to be made in these fished cables, the wallboard to be repaired, and then concealed by the building finish.

It sure seems wrong, not even so much for a direct safety standpoint, if they are made to contain arcs, they probably do, but it sure is tough to troubleshoot with buried splices.

I want splices to be accessible.


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## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

waco said:


> I agree, 100%.
> 
> After reading the fine print, it looks to me like the devices are approved for mobile and prefab dwellings "without the use of boxes" but that doesn't imply (to me) that the splice doesn't have to be accessible. I haven't done any work on mobiles or prefabs, so I can't really say. Personally, I wouldn't use them if I wasn't the factory/assembler.


 
I have used them in "pre-fab" (we call them modular homes). The home comes in pieces all pre-wired, it is set on a foundation and in the basement you have a bunch of those connectors that were put on in the factory. You simply plug the right ones together to connect all the pieces of the house. These are all accessible in the basement when you are finished though.


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

The only time I've ever worked with these is when they have been installed in the two halves of a manufactured home, and the ciruit on one side needs tied to the wiring on the other side. Makes it simple for the simpletons who place these home on the site to do.

I'm always leery of 'new technology' that is supposed to be better than what we had before. CSST is a prime example. Everyone oohed and aahed about it, now it's getting banned in some states.

If these things are the greatest thing since sliced bread, then let someone else prove it. If they work, after some years I may start to use them. But I'll be







ed if I'm going to use on of my paying customer's houses as a proving ground.


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## mollydog (Jan 9, 2009)

right, in the pre fabs and manufacturer listing, its not my blessing if you get my drift, they pull em up, drop em, junction em together and thats it, the only "enforcement" is the actual junction and whatever service they put on them and even then its not the entire service because the MDP is already in. 9 times outta 10 they have to run a feeder with outside OCP because they set them down wrong, if i was paying that kind of money for a home you bet yer a_ _ im gonna call to tell em where my drop is located.


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## ACB (Oct 21, 2008)

I definately would not want to bury any splice, I have never seen one of these yet, I'll have to ask my wholesaler if they have them or any samples, if they are anything like those squeeze on things used in automotive I don't think I would use them, the contact point is small, like back stabbing holes in recepticals with a small contact point they can fail, and I have fixed alot of those 5 to 10 years later.


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## gilbequick (Oct 6, 2007)

480sparky said:


> CSST is a prime example. Everyone oohed and aahed about it, now it's getting banned in some states.


I've never used it for electrical but isn't that the stuff they use for gas pipes these days? Why's it being banned?


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## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

gilbequick said:


> I've never used it for electrical but isn't that the stuff they use for gas pipes these days? Why's it being banned?


Lightning gets into it, burns a hole in it, and you have either a gas leak or a fire. That's why you have to bond it.


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## heel600 (Oct 31, 2007)

You can NOT bury a splice, only splices buried in the earth are allowed to not be accessable.

No I don't have the art number, but I went through this already with an inspector. It's in there.


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## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

We have dealt with some of these things. Mostly where everyone else talked about. Modular and manufactured homes. One customer brought in 4 duplex buildings. There were problems in two of the buildings. Both on electric heat runs out of the wall stat. Had to crawl through 2 feet of blown in insulation to find the splice and redo it. I didn't really consider that to be "accessible" although strictly speaking it probably is.That being said, sometimes they might be the best alternative. Some of those modulars leave the wire below so short that a junction box is out of the question. So we keep a couple on hand, but there seem to be more than one kind.


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## Tiger (Jan 3, 2008)

heel600 said:


> You can NOT bury a splice, only splices buried in the earth are allowed to not be accessable.
> 
> No I don't have the art number, but I went through this already with an inspector. It's in there.


"It's in there"

I remember an old inspector. He was completely clueless regarding the NEC, but he knew what good wiring looked like. As long as your wiring looked like everyone's wiring you passed inspection. If you got creative it was a violation & the violation was "in there". He usually compensated for his lack of knowledge by yelling "IT'S IN THERE!" so you knew you were in for a fight. His contract with the city ran out & I haven't seen him since.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

was time when the NEC did reflect good practices more than a lot of the engineering it contains now. It has long been my opinion that the trade needs to get back to realizing the differences between electrical engineering and electrical practices.

Aftare reading the excellent comments, I can see how the manufacturer of the modular or mobile hom might be willing to assume the responsibility for installing these connectors, but I can't see a field electrician accepting that responsibility although they are willing to connect two connectors already installed.

I think the homes should be designed such that all splices are accessable, just as they must be in any other construction. It really isn't that hard to do. These connectors look like they use penetrating spikes which are, sooner or later, trouble, especially in high draw applications.


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## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

heel600 said:


> You can NOT bury a splice, only splices buried in the earth are allowed to not be accessable.
> 
> No I don't have the art number, but I went through this already with an inspector. It's in there.


You are right it is in there, but you are wrong about what "it" is. 

Here is the article;

334.40 Boxes and Fittings

(B) *...*tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished... 

Just because you (and I) do not agree with something in the code does not mean it is not code compliant... I would not install one of these where it is not accessible, but that does not mean they are not code compliant.


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## waco (Dec 10, 2007)

See, there's the problem: "...and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished..." What possible logic applies here?????? What the heck does "concealed and fished" mean to EVERYBODY?????

"Fished" implies to me that the splice can be retrieved although it might not be "accessible" in its place of normal operation. I know I have dropped SG boxes containing vanity light wire extensions into walls below the cutout for medicine cabinets and felt they were "accessible."

What I don't understand about the Amps is how they are better than twisted, wire nutted splices in which the spices are also taped back into a "bundle." I think twisted and wire nutted wires are as good as splices get without soldering.


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## TheRick (Apr 13, 2008)

waco said:


> What I don't understand about the Amps is how they are better than twisted, wire nutted splices in which the spices are also taped back into a "bundle." I think twisted and wire nutted wires are as good as splices get without soldering.


 
It's all in how the manufacturer _"sells" _it to the code making panel.


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## Kevin J (Dec 11, 2008)

Amp connectors are not a new product. They have been out since at least 1995, which is when I first started seeing them. The electrician I was working under at the time had contracts with most of the local modular home companies in the area to be their field electrician. I say modular, not "manufactured double wides". The job involved doing the field hook ups and if wiring the attics and crawl spaces/basements, plus connecting all of those "amp" connectors. They were factory installed and numbered, so it was plug and play for us. A lot of these same houses I have went back to recently to do different things for the customers, and you know what? They're still working fine. And yes, some of the work I have had to do is wiring for a finished basement and with all those amp connectors in the ceiling, you can't do much except bury them. I feel perfectly comfortable doing this, considering that some of them have been there for 14 years and still going strong. Plus, amp connectors do not "spike" into the wires, they have blade connections similar to back-stabbed devices, except the connection is firmer.


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## Electrical SME AHJ (5 mo ago)

TheRick said:


> You are right it is in there, but you are wrong about what "it" is.
> 
> Here is the article;
> 
> ...


The key word in the code for this is "repair" of wiring. Not remodel, rework, etc. This are acceptable for a repair of damaged wiring. Not relocation, remodel, or rework. which means then the product would have to be accessible.


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## Electrical SME AHJ (5 mo ago)

Since this was awhile back. just an update. The code reads "for repair" these non metallic sheath interconnectors are legal to be hidden in a wall or ceiling for a "repair". Not a remodel or rework. That requires this product to be accessible. Tyco list their product as for hidden rework. This is incorrect as the code does not say hidden rework. Another case of a design engineer changing he words in the code. Reference 2020 NFPA 70NEC


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