# Best ways of doing residential rough in



## Vintage Sounds (Oct 23, 2009)

I've been working on high end custom townhouses for the past 6 months and I just found out my company won a bid for another 14 units by the same GC. I foresee myself doing a lot of resi rough-in in the future and also having more control over how it gets done so I'm looking for techniques to get the most efficiency and most consistent result.

I was thinking of a system like this assuming service and main panel are already done:

1) mark all box locations

2) set up a laser at switch or receptacle height and attach boxes

3) raise laser 6" above box height and drill out studs in a straight line using a hole hawg-type drill

4) pull wires for loads and receptacles

5) start installing potlights ("recessed lights") and exhaust fans

6) pull home runs and label every wire at the panel

7) cut in boxes and staple

8) cut in panel and install breakers

Is this roughly the order you would do it in?

I also want to minimise situations where things get missed, do you guys use checklists or some system like that?


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

By the time you're done playing with the laser, I've already got the boxes nailed on and I've started drilling. :laughing: Save the laser for the kitchen and vanity backsplash receptacles.


----------



## BestMan (Jun 19, 2011)

Spray paint your home run boxes so someone doesn't pull something to the wrong box.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

Nail up the recessed lights and anything else needed before you start drilling and pulling wires..

I agree with Marc.. forget the laser.. ruler will work just fine for laying out boxes..

Drilling holes can be eyeballed since they will never be seen again until the place is remodeled.. nobody cares if not laser straight

IMO even using a laser for back splash is a waste of time since the cabinet guys are not using your height layout for their base cabinets..


----------



## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

B4T said:


> IMO even using a laser for back splash is a waste of time since the cabinet guys are not using your height layout for their base cabinets..


Until they do a tile job, and your work can look pretty foolish.


----------



## B4T (Feb 10, 2009)

MDShunk said:


> Until they do a tile job, and your work can look pretty foolish.


That has never happened to me.. but I will use one in the future.. :thumbsup:


----------



## Foestauf (Jan 5, 2011)

MDShunk said:


> By the time you're done playing with the laser, I've already got the boxes nailed on and I've started drilling. :laughing: Save the laser for the kitchen and vanity backsplash receptacles.


Agreed. I always just ran around with a tape measure and marked all my boxes then went onto slamming them on. Town homes can't be that large of a layout, screw all the extra mumbo jumbo.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

We always set receptacles at hammer height and used a chalk line for the kitchen backsplash.


----------



## oliquir (Jan 13, 2011)

setting up a laser for me take less then one minute, it is self niveling you just adjust height


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

You guys up in Canada (eh!) use metal device boxes even in residential, correct?


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Does anyone pull power to the ceiling anymore? I know you might for smokes but I don't see it anymore for lights. Does everyone mark for 2+ gang boxes and for 3-ways?

Also, if you set recep. boxes for hammer height, is it a framing hammer, cabinet hammer, etc. in other words what standard height do you use? Better have the same hammer if more than 1 person is doing it.


----------



## oldtimer (Jun 10, 2010)

oliquir said:


> setting up a laser for me take less then one minute, it is self niveling you just adjust height


 I have never niveled......is it painful?:jester:


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Little-Lectric said:


> ............Also, if you set recep. boxes for hammer height, is it a framing hammer, cabinet hammer, etc. in other words what standard height do you use? .........



What the call the hammer is not relevant. What is relevant is you use the same hammer throughout.


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Also, if you set recep. boxes for hammer height, is it a framing hammer, cabinet hammer, etc. in other words what standard height do you use? Better have the same hammer if more than 1 person is doing it.[/quote]





480sparky said:


> What the call the hammer is not relevant. What
> is relevant is you use the same hammer throughout.


That was my point. I've seen guys with long handles and short/regular size handles. That's why I asked what is the standard height used if just measuring.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

Little-Lectric said:


> .........That was my point. I've seen guys with long handles and short/regular size handles. That's why I asked what is the standard height used if just measuring.


There is no 'standard' height. Some people will prefer 12", others 16", some 14", some say 10". My hammer measures 15 5/8, and I've never had anyone complain.

The only time I measure the recep boxes is when I'm doing a log home. On log walls, I must set a box in the center of a log, so they need to be 12" to the center. I put all the receps in non-log walls at the same height just for consistency. When doing so, I use a scrap 2x4 instead of measuring and marking the wall.


----------



## mdfriday (May 14, 2007)

I cut a length of conduit to the specified height for receptacles and switches. I use the conduit as a story pole. (From floor to bottom or top of box, whichever you prefer.)

I use a laser if the kitchen is large. If there are only a couple receptacles over the counter, I use a level / chalk-line.


----------



## Honestly (Feb 3, 2011)

Hammer height is easiest, just let 1 guy do all the low boxes. No need to fiddle with a pencil or marker, just stand hammer up beside stud, set box on top, hold against stud with L hand, pull out hammer and nail it with R hand. Dang quick.


----------



## jza (Oct 31, 2009)

Put the ****ing laser away.


----------



## gold (Feb 15, 2008)

I find for height a few pieces of PVC pipe cut to length is pretty quick and accurate then you can take it from house to house and any person can use the same pipe. Its also dumbed down for those who look to quickly at the tape measure.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

I cut a piece of furring strip for my "story stick".


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I started in the trade roping houses. I Jman, 1 apprentice would rough in 2 houses a day, including the service.

Granted, it was the easiest type of construction on the 3 or 4 bedrom tract houses (block or framed), 1200 to 1500', single story, truss roofs, no recessed cans.....but still, we cranked them out.


I'd forget the laser alltogether. A simple stoty pole will be accurate enough to mark awitch and recep locations. (Story pole =a 1x2 with nails or holes for your marker at 16" and 48" for receps and switches) Add 44 or whatever for counter top receps if necessary.

As far as drilling straight, eyeball is colse enough. I think the 1/2" angle drill works best. For horizontal drilling, the best location is down just above the knee, where it naturall falls. 

Don't drill horizontally everywhere as it may limit the drywallers access. Weigh the cost of the drill time across a wall to the cost of the wire up and over.

Enter the tops of boxes to keep the make up cleaner.

In the olden days we would strip the sheath, then poke it thru the box. Modern technique is to poke it in, then strip the sheath blind.


Mark boxs 
nail on boxes
drill holes
pull and staple cable
make up boxes.
clean up and move on.

Divide the tasks depending on crew size. When I started, _generally_, Jman would mark, I would nail and start drilling. Jman would pull home runs, then branches. I would install panel, pull cable down block wall cells/mount boxes. Jman would make everything up.

I'd install the recessed lights while boxing.

One very important part is to keep track of the branch wiring. It's easy to forget a jumper somewhere. If one guy starts the circuit, make sure he finishes it. Work from home run to the end so there is no misunderstanding.

I'm a fan of running power from sw box to sw box. It's way easier to make up at sw height and, for future tshhoting, the switch boxes are always clear of obstructions.


We experimented with prefab spiders. It made the wiring a lot faster in bedrooms but I dont dig the idea of so many spices in a ceiling box. 

_The spider ceiling box had four wires long enough to reach receps on 4 walls and one wire long enough for the switch(es) nail it up, drop the cables down the walls, jumper between them somewhere and you are done. _


----------



## Wyremonkey (Apr 15, 2011)

Peter D said:


> You guys up in Canada (eh!) use metal device boxes even in residential, correct?


Yup eh!


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

No need for a laser level:no:

I have pieces of 1X3 cut to length for marking receps and switch box heights. Just walk around with the stick and mark with a sharpie. Always spot on perfect:thumbsup:


----------



## Rockyd (Apr 22, 2007)

Little-Lectric said:


> Does anyone pull power to the ceiling anymore? I know you might for smokes but I don't see it anymore for lights. Does everyone mark for 2+ gang boxes and for 3-ways?
> 
> Also, if you set recep. boxes for hammer height, is it a framing hammer, cabinet hammer, etc. in other words what standard height do you use? Better have the same hammer if more than 1 person is doing it.


If you've ever worked at a good residential shop, everyone has exactly the same size hammer for boxxing. Be aware that if your subject to ADA, stuff has to be between 18" and 48"...


To the OP - Laser? You barely need a level! Most gigs are Timex, you'll know when to go get a Rolex...


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

lovethetrade said:


> No need for a laser level:no:
> 
> I have pieces of 1X3 cut to length for marking receps and switch box heights. Just walk around with the stick and mark with a sharpie. Always spot on perfect:thumbsup:


 an unlevel subfloor and you are screwed in the kitchen.


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> an unlevel subfloor and you are screwed in the kitchen.


An 1/8" unlevel subfloor will not effect anything


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

For kitchens I have used a 4' level and drawn lines across the studs. Low tech but it's fast and simple.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> an unlevel subfloor and you are screwed in the kitchen.


As long as your boxes are level, the finish crew will also be installing all the cabinetry to a set level (they *will* use a lazer), so the floor and ceiling (and for that matter, walls) can vary all they want. It's all good.


----------



## Kilowatt247 (Jun 28, 2011)

I normally just chalk the room found it to be quick and easy even if by myself


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 20, 2007)

When wiring up a bath fan, wire it up on the top of a 4' ladder. THEN bang it onto the joist. Make the NM long enough to reach the switch box & cut it.

Helluva lot easier than trying to wire 'em up standing on a ladder, with your head held back, working in those itty bitty dinky wiring spaces.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

i carry pieces of strapping cut to switch and receptacle height


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

480sparky said:


> When wiring up a bath fan, wire it up on the top of a 4' ladder. THEN bang it onto the joist. Make the NM long enough to reach the switch box & cut it.
> 
> Helluva lot easier than trying to wire 'em up standing on a ladder, with your head held back, working in those itty bitty dinky wiring spaces.


It's much easier if you make the splices up outside of the fan, then wrap them with tape. No connector of course.


----------



## NolaTigaBait (Oct 19, 2008)

Peter D said:


> It's much easier if you make the splices up outside of the fan, then wrap them with tape. No connector of course.


lol...no doubt...I cant count how many times ive seen that


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Mr Rewire said:


> We always set receptacles at hammer height and used a chalk line for the kitchen backsplash.


only problem i have with hammer height is not everyone has the same hammer


----------



## arni19 (Nov 20, 2009)

-Mark out ( this includes heights)
-Lay all the boxes and vapor hats out where they go
-bang up all the boxes and recessed lights
- pull branch circuits
-pull home runs
- pull data wires 
- tie all wires into boxes
- tie in panel
- clean up


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

lovethetrade said:


> An 1/8" unlevel subfloor will not effect anything


 I saw what an unlevel floor made the boxes look like when they tiled the backsplash. If you are 1/8 low on one end and 1/8 high on the other that is 1/4 difference.


----------



## Mr Rewire (Jan 15, 2011)

electricalperson said:


> only problem i have with hammer height is not everyone has the same hammer


 I bought everyone the same hammer.:thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Get spools of t-stat wire. Staple to face of studs. Install shallow handy boxes with side brackets. Insert t-stat wire into handy boxes. Done. :thumbsup:


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Peter D said:


> Get spools of t-stat wire. Staple to face of studs. Install shallow handy boxes with side brackets. Insert t-stat wire into handy boxes. Done. :thumbsup:


That your "hack version?":laughing:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Little-Lectric said:


> That your "hack version?":laughing:


That's my normal version. :thumbsup:


----------



## lovethetrade (Apr 12, 2011)

Best way to do residential rough-in?

Don't do them. No money in them unless it's a custom home or a rewire. 

A standard 3 bedroom roughly 2,000 sq foot you can have not worth my time.


----------



## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

We keep it simple me and another guy are working an rtm site that does about 50-60 houses a year and the best method we find is whoever did the electrical walk thru with the home owner marks out the house and the other guy follows behind boxing out 

Once I finish marking I'll either help out with lights or depending on the size start mounting the panel 

Once boxed one guy starts drilling while the other starts all of the exterior pots in the soffit 

From there we make a list of circuits and each make sure to finish circuits we start starting with home run first then completely finishing that circuit before moving on to the next

It usually works out one guy starts in the kitchen while the other tackles bed plugs and all the lighting on the other end of the house 

As for the laser I have never used one before for boxing and find a simple tape measure is simple and effective we go with a 16" plug height and a 48" switch height


----------



## varmit (Apr 19, 2009)

I don't do much residential anymore, but I have always used a wood folding ruler to mark box height. It is quick, simple and handy. Use a chalk line to mark for the horizontal drilling. If the holes are strait, wire pulling is easier and more neat. Neatness is usually important on custom residential for most builders.


----------



## CraigV (May 12, 2011)

Mr Rewire said:


> I saw what an unlevel floor made the boxes look like when they tiled the backsplash. If you are 1/8 low on one end and 1/8 high on the other that is 1/4 difference.


Plugmold.












No?:shifty:


----------



## danickstr (Mar 21, 2010)

I would never leave the walk through to the HO. They may get some of it right, but they typically miss many things they will need later. Our job is to make sure the thinking that did not get done by the architect or the HO gets done anyway.

Lasering or at least leveling bathroom and kitchen counter stuff is a good idea. I just measure most low duplexes and switches.


----------



## backstay (Feb 3, 2011)

danickstr said:


> I would never leave the walk through to the HO. They may get some of it right, but they typically miss many things they will need later. Our job is to make sure the thinking that did not get done by the architect or the HO gets done anyway.
> 
> Lasering or at least leveling bathroom and kitchen counter stuff is a good idea. I just measure most low duplexes and switches.


Used a laser on a guttted remodel, found my boxes in the kitchen were 1 in different from one side to the other when measured from the floor. The house wasn't level. I have used the floor as ref, ever since.


----------



## te12co2w (Jun 3, 2007)

Peter D said:


> Get spools of t-stat wire. Staple to face of studs. Install shallow handy boxes with side brackets. Insert t-stat wire into handy boxes. Done. :thumbsup:


Staple to face of stud?


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

te12co2w said:


> Staple to face of stud?


It's only stat wire. It doesn't bow the drywall _that_ much.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Peter D said:


> It's only stat wire. It doesn't bow the drywall _that_ much.


i dont get what you mean by stapling to the face of the stud. do you mean the part that is in contact with the sheetrock? why would you do that


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> i dont get what you mean by stapling to the face of the stud. do you mean the part that is in contact with the sheetrock? why would you do that


It saves a lot of hole drilling doing it that way.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Peter D said:


> It saves a lot of hole drilling doing it that way.


what if it gets hit with a sheetrock screw


----------



## steelersman (Mar 15, 2009)

JPRO2 said:


> Once boxed one guy starts drilling while the other starts all of the exterior pots in the soffit



Potlights in the soffit? Seriously?


----------



## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

steelersman said:


> Potlights in the soffit? Seriously?


Oh yea, they're great are making ice dams up here.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Ima Hack said:


> Oh yea, they're great are making ice dams up here.


also getting filled with bugs and not working:thumbsup: every single high end house i wired had recessed lights inside of the soffit around the house.


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

electricalperson said:


> what if it gets hit with a sheetrock screw


Then you don't answer your phone when they call to complain their outlets aren't working. :thumbsup:


----------



## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

Peter D said:


> Then you don't answer your phone when they call to complain their outlets aren't working. :thumbsup:


How will the stat wire that you crammed between the drywall and stud impede outlets form working?


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

i would rather run the thermostat wire the same way as romex than risking it getting hit with a sheetrock screw. it would be a pain to replace an 18/2 cable on the second floor of a house when its already sheetrocked. nail plate over that too:thumbsup:


----------



## user4818 (Jan 15, 2009)

Ima Hack said:


> How will the stat wire that you crammed between the drywall and stud impede outlets form working?


See post #38.


----------



## electricalperson (Jan 11, 2008)

Ima Hack said:


> How will the stat wire that you crammed between the drywall and stud impede outlets form working?


he uses 18/2 for homeruns :laughing:


----------



## Ima Hack (Aug 31, 2009)

Peter D said:


> See post #38.


Oh I see, the old t-stat wire for an outlet circuit trick.

Genious Peter, just genious! :thumbsup:

I can only aspire to reach your level of audacious hackery some day.


----------



## A Little Short (Nov 11, 2010)

Me thinks Peter's hat is on too tight!:yes:


----------



## JPRO2 (Dec 17, 2008)

Who leaves walk thrus to the home owner?


----------

