# Kitchen island in a concrete ocean



## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Whats the best way to get power to a kitchen island surrounded by concrete? It's in a kitchen being remodeled. I'll need to get three circuits, one microwave, one disposer, and one for a recept. Can I just trench in PVC as a sleeve for romex or what are you guys generally doing for this? On 2014 NEC here.


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## PlugsAndLights (Jan 19, 2016)

Will it end up above grade?
P&L


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

I figured I'd stub up the closest wall and stub up where the cabinets go. Once the concrete is set, cut the stub flush. Pull romex, sleve what is exposed inside the cabinet in greenfield.


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

Go with uf cable and two 3/4 pvc conduits. Or set boxes at each end, run thwn thru pvc if your trench won't allow two conduits, and run romex from that box in the island out to the loads.


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## Chris1971 (Dec 27, 2010)

matt1124 said:


> Whats the best way to get power to a kitchen island surrounded by concrete? It's in a kitchen being remodeled. I'll need to get three circuits, one microwave, one disposer, and one for a recept. Can I just trench in PVC as a sleeve for romex or what are you guys generally doing for this? On 2014 NEC here.


Install pvc in a trench. Install UF in pvc.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

A box on the wall side would be ugly based on what's on either side of the wall. Why two 3/4 pipe instead of one large one? How do you calculate fill of UF? Since the pvc would just be a sleeve to protect from damage, would I have to derate if I opted for one conduit with three 12/2 UF in it?


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> A box on the wall side would be ugly based on what's on either side of the wall. Why two 3/4 pipe instead of one large one? How do you calculate fill of UF? Since the pvc would just be a sleeve to protect from damage, would I have to derate if I opted for one conduit with three 12/2 UF in it?


I'm just trying to make it easy for you. Uf grabs , so I soap the hell out of it. I sometimes go the box method, just put one where it will become a blank plate in the back of a base cabinet. Almost always when there is a cooktop or oven in the island.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Why do you guys say he should use UF?


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Ah I see. I bet it grabs like none other. I've always hated UF 12/2, it's such a PITA to strip at times

UF because it will be underground pipe, which always fills with water.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

Is this kitchen slab on grade? Then I could see it.


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

Plumbers broke into it the other day, I can't remember. I don't recall much in the way of screenings. Guess I'll find out!


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## macmikeman (Jan 23, 2007)

B-Nabs said:


> Is this kitchen slab on grade? Then I could see it.


Well if it is a kitchen island in a high-rise on a concrete floor then I would suggest he slap the crap out of the kitchen designer lady who don't know crap from salami about structural integrity and designs islands as an aftermarket brilliant idea in high rise condo's. Yes I believe he said in first post it was a concrete floor island , which I took to mean slab on grade. It is not such a far stretch of the imagination.


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## B-Nabs (Jun 4, 2014)

macmikeman said:


> Well if it is a kitchen island in a high-rise on a concrete floor then I would suggest he slap the crap out of the kitchen designer lady who don't know crap from salami about structural integrity and designs islands as an aftermarket brilliant idea in high rise condo's. Yes I believe he said in first post it was a concrete floor island , which I took to mean slab on grade. It is not such a far stretch of the imagination.


What you took it to mean, or what is or is not a stretch of the imagination, is not my concern. There are applications between slab on grade and high rise. And there are ways of trenching existing concrete that does not compromise its structural integrity. I simply asked a question to gain a clearer picture of what he was doing.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> Whats the best way to get power to a kitchen island surrounded by concrete? It's in a kitchen being remodeled. I'll need to get three circuits, one microwave, one disposer, and one for a recept. Can I just trench in PVC as a sleeve for romex or what are you guys generally doing for this? On 2014 NEC here.


If it was slab on grade, I would run a 1/2" PVC or smurf and stub it up in the closest practical place, or behind the fridge and pull friggin THWN like a real electrician.
If it were above the first floor, I would consider piping it with EMT if it were easier than smurf. 
Next thing I would do, if it was the plumber that cut the pipe, have the owner get the plumber to ut an remove the concrete. 
The tile guy can patch.
If its precast or post tension, you are going to ned a different plan. But, you already mentioned the plumber cut the floor so, thats out.


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## Southeast Power (Jan 18, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> I figured I'd stub up the closest wall and stub up where the cabinets go. Once the concrete is set, cut the stub flush. Pull romex, sleve what is exposed inside the cabinet in greenfield.


Concrete is a wet location, no romex.
This is why the guys were suggesting UF.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

B-Nabs said:


> Why do you guys say he should use UF?





matt1124 said:


> Ah I see. I bet it grabs like none other. I've always hated UF 12/2, it's such a PITA to strip at times
> 
> UF because it will be underground pipe, which always fills with water.


I would still go with the THWN. You can get by with a smaller conduit, smaller cut in the concrete, etc. You can fit what is it, nine 12 awg wires in 1/2". 

If you want to put the GFCI protection ahead of the part in the slab, that should give you peace of mind in case the pipe ever fills with water. IME, yes underground conduits usually wind up wet, unless they are very short. But usually little stubs through the floor do not. As long as the concrete slab doesn't heave in the spring and fall, and dump trucks don't drive between the refrigerator and the island, I bet it stays dry, and I wouldn't worry much about THWN in there. 

If you ever do have to pull the wire out, it will be a two finger job with THWN, might not be so easy with the UF, especially with the boxes buried where they're not easy to reach.


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