# Car charger request



## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I had a request for an estimate from a guy" _to do some 
electrical work in my garage_"...kind of vague..i know.

So I went out to give the estimate.

He meets me on the driveway @ the garage and he states
he needs me to "_run a circuit for an electric car charger_.

I say...Okay can I see the car charger...to which he replies
_"he hasn't purchased one yet."_

I ask what kind of electric car he bought , to which he replies
_"I haven't bought one yet."_

He then continues to say I just want you to run a 50 amp 
circuit out here for a car charger.

I explain that the car chargers I've run circuits for vary
in amperage and are hardwired. also it would be a warranty
issue on your car to use the correct charger so until you
choose a car...ya know.

He does not want my advise he wants his 50 amp circuit ..oh
and did I mention he wants it on a 240 volt 50 amp Range 
outlet also?:vs_laugh:

I ask ...are you cooking out here? He becomes agitated with
me and said he plans on installing a 50 amp range cord to
his charger cord when he gets his car charger.:vs_whistle:

I then say ...sorry...you may not respect what I do for a living
but guess who still does? Moi. Bye Bye


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

That's a good job to not have your name on.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MikeFL said:


> That's a good job to not have your name on.


yeah he was a peach


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

Why not install his 50 amp circuit and take your money? What he plugs into it later would not be your responsibility would it?


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## micromind (Aug 11, 2007)

eddy current said:


> Why not install his 50 amp circuit and take your money? What he plugs into it later would not be your responsibility would it?


Technically no but when the charger burns up you can bet he'll say 'yes, that idiot electrician caused the problem'. 

Either that or a 50 amp circuit will grow a number of nice plants..........


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## matt1124 (Aug 23, 2011)

I would have took his money. 50 amp range outlet, who cares what he does with it. Squirrelly guy like that, I’d just insist on a permit so we’re documrnted where I stopped, take the cash.

I see jacked up dryer cords, loose as a goose, no strain relief, wires all sorts of ways, and I still love easy money dryer recepts.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

No big deal. If you want to get picky, run the circuit and put a blank plate on it. What he does with it later is his business.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm selling whatever it is you're buying. You want a 50 amp range receptacle? That's what you'll get. None of my business what you plan on doing with it. I'd offer some advice, but in the end it's their decision. It's their house. It's their money. Installing a receptacle does not create a hazard.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

If I really needed the work / money I might offer to install a new circuit terminated in a disconnect, dot every I and cross every T, and price accordingly. 

Maybe even put an exclusion, "Does not include charger installation" on the quote, and a note "Thanks, please keep me in mind when you are ready to install a charger" on the invoice. 

But if the guy rubs me the wrong way, I'd just never get back to him with a quote, and if he calls, say I'm just too busy at the moment and can't quote his job. At this point if I can sense someone's going to be difficult, I don't need the aggravation.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Why, oh why, would anyone care what he wants to use it for? Install a compliant range receptacle like he wants and roll. What he does with it after you leave is his business. I swear, some people see the boogie man around every corner. There's nothing immoral, unethical, or illegal about putting a range receptacle in his garage. What he wants to use it for might be dumb, but a customer is allowed to be dumb.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

Hold the phone. Really? I'd have to respectfully disagree. If someone's going to do something stupid, the smart thing is to distance yourself FAR from the whole thing. 

If a neighbor comes to your house and asks to borrow a gallon of gas, any glass bottles you might have, and some rags, and a lighter, it's OK to tell them you are all out. 

If nothing else - do you really want your van parked in his driveway for half a day on Friday if the fire department is going to be there Saturday?  

You won't have a chance to explain to the neighbors you just installed a fully compliant receptacle that he hacked. (If you did, you could decide whether to mention that you knew he was going to hack it right when you finished - but you won't have that chance.) 

But HE will have a chance to talk to his neighbors and everyone else if anything goes wrong. Do you think he'll be real truthful and accurate about what you did and what you told him? 

Again, the smart thing to do when something stupid is going down is to steer clear, because the world is not fair, and the consequences won't be limited strictly to the party directly contributing the stupid. 



MDShunk said:


> Why, oh why, would anyone care what he wants to use it for? Install a compliant range receptacle like he wants and roll. What he does with it after you leave is his business. I swear, some people see the boogie man around every corner. There's nothing immoral, unethical, or illegal about putting a range receptacle in his garage. What he wants to use it for might be dumb, but a customer is allowed to be dumb.


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## NewElect85 (Dec 24, 2017)

I've installed a few range outlets and the tesla charger plugs right into it.
I would do it again.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

matt1124 said:


> I would have took his money. 50 amp range outlet, who cares what he does with it. Squirrelly guy like that, I’d just insist on a permit so we’re documrnted where I stopped, take the cash.
> 
> I see jacked up dryer cords, loose as a goose, no strain relief, wires all sorts of ways, and I still love easy money dryer recepts.


I was thinking it's possible he's lying about the "car charger"and
it's actually a wild idea about backfeeding a generator which he
probably has been refused by someone before me.

The reason I don't "take the guys money" , is simple. I immediately
disliked him and am in a nice position to pick my customers.

I leave these guys for the "Mr sparkies and Mr Electrics" of our community.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

splatz said:


> Hold the phone. Really? I'd have to respectfully disagree. If someone's going to do something stupid, the smart thing is to distance yourself FAR from the whole thing.
> 
> If a neighbor comes to your house and asks to borrow a gallon of gas, any glass bottles you might have, and some rags, and a lighter, it's OK to tell them you are all out.
> 
> ...


Seriously? Comparing a compliant installation of a range outlet to lending a neighbor the material to build a Molotov cocktail?

The guy doesn’t even have a charger, or a car, the fire department will not be there the day after you leave. 

You take out a permit, install the range outlet and collect your cash, no danger, no fire. Worst case he installs something that overloads your circuit and the breaker trips. Happens every day.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> Why, oh why, would anyone care what he wants to use it for? Install a compliant range receptacle like he wants and roll. What he does with it after you leave is his business. I swear, some people see the boogie man around every corner. There's nothing immoral, unethical, or illegal about putting a range receptacle in his garage. What he wants to use it for might be dumb, but a customer is allowed to be dumb.


Shunk...this isn't Pennsylvania where welders & machinists can install
400 amp services with the help of the local adviser.

We have real licensing here , with real laws and real implications on 
liability, not a home improvement registration.

and 99 , you'ld put a blank cover on it? Are you bored to death
that you would need a job your not going to get paid for?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> Seriously? Comparing a compliant installation of a range outlet to lending a neighbor the material to build a Molotov cocktail?
> 
> The guy doesn’t even have a charger, or a car, the fire department will not be there the day after you leave.
> 
> *You take out a permit,* install the range outlet and collect your cash, no danger, no fire. Worst case he installs something that overloads your circuit and the breaker trips. Happens every day.


Our building department wants a copy of the spec 
sheet and service load calc for these permits ..

I told the guy this and he continued to argue...HE WAS
A KNUCKLE HEAD people. I dont' do sh*t for knuckleheads.

You guys that cow tow to people like this are EXACTLY 
why electricians don't get the respect they deserve.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> Shunk...this isn't Pennsylvania where welders & machinists can install
> 400 amp services with the help of the local adviser.
> 
> We have real licensing here , with real laws and real implications on
> ...


WTF? This has nothing to do with boredom. If you think he's a no pay, you walk. That's a separate issue. If you put a blank cover over it and mark it Future Car Charger, it's done. Besides that, a range receptacle isn't just a range receptacle, it's a NEMA configuration. He could plug any number of things into it. Maybe there is a car charger that plugs into that receptacle; I don't know.

You're becoming the new Mr. Crankypants around here.


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## splatz (May 23, 2015)

eddy current said:


> Seriously? Comparing a compliant installation of a range outlet to lending a neighbor the material to build a Molotov cocktail?


That's a joke boy, you missed it, went right past you! 










> The guy doesn’t even have a charger, or a car, the fire department will not be there the day after you leave.


Again, that fire department bit was hyperbole, but there WAS a car charger. He said he didn't have it, and it was sitting in plain sight. 

If I think he's just odd, and he's going to plug in his pluggable charger himself, sure I'll install a receptacle. 

If I think he's going to do something stupid (as in gems-of-the-trade-thread stupid) I'm out. 

If I get a strong sense the guy's going to be a headache, I'm out.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

99cents said:


> WTF? This has nothing to do with boredom. If you think he's a no pay, you walk. That's a separate issue. If you put a blank cover over it and mark it Future Car Charger, it's done. Besides that, a range receptacle isn't just a range receptacle, it's a NEMA configuration. He could plug any number of things into it. Maybe there is a car charger that plugs into that receptacle; I don't know.
> 
> You're becoming the new Mr. Crankypants around here.


I'm saying he didn't ask for a blank cover! yopu really
think he's going to pay for a blank cover? You're
impossible to talk to.


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

lighterup said:


> Our building department wants a copy of the spec
> sheet and service load calc for these permits ..
> 
> I told the guy this and he continued to argue...HE WAS
> ...


Some Car chargers plug directly into range outlets, where is the issue?

No you don’t have to do the job if you don’t like him, all good there.

No loss of respect to electricians for installing a compliant receptacle for knuckheads.

Must be nice to only work for happy, friendly people. Deal with idiot knuckheads all the time..........and I’m in Canada!


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I think this customer just might have been 99


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> *Some Car chargers plug directly into range outlets, where is the issue?*
> 
> No you don’t have to do the job if you don’t like him, all good there.
> 
> No loss of respect to electricians for installing a compliant receptacle for knuckheads.


I'll take your word for that , but so far I
have not seen them..

Let me ask you this...what's wrong with me
wanting a spec sheet before I agree to bid on a job?


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## eddy current (Feb 28, 2009)

lighterup said:


> I'll take your word for that , but so far I
> have not seen them..
> 
> Let me ask you this...what's wrong with me
> wanting a spec sheet before I agree to bid on a job?


Nothing, and here an inspector would also want a load calc. If there is no load, it would have to be taken at 80% of the breaker.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

eddy current said:


> Nothing, and here an inspector would also want a load calc. If there is no load, it would have to be taken at 80% of the breaker.


I agree with this.

The point of my OP had more to do with the 
difficulty of the customer.
The rest is the details.


Now if the guy was polite and said..."I want a 
50 amp range outlet here and didn't act like such
a d**k to me , I'd probably would have bid the job..
except our building department would be asking ...

"well , what are you putting in the garage for 
fume exhaustion and how do you intend to
vent it to the exterior of the building?" and a 
whole new set of problems would come up.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

NewElect85 said:


> I've installed a few range outlets and the tesla charger plugs right into it.
> I would do it again.


You ran a neutral when you ran the cable for the outlet, correct?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> I was thinking it's possible he's lying about the "car charger"and
> it's actually a wild idea about backfeeding a generator which he
> probably has been refused by someone before me.
> 
> ...


I understand your point but at the same time for $1000 down and $1000 immediately upon completion he'd have a shiny new range outlet that was code compliant in his garage.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I'm saying he didn't ask for a blank cover! yopu really
> think he's going to pay for a blank cover? You're
> impossible to talk to.


Are you chanelling Hack? This is beginning to sound like he's the ventriloquist and you're the dummy.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> I understand your point but at the same time for $1000 down and $1000 immediately upon completion he'd have a shiny new range outlet that was code compliant in his garage.


Mech...if he wanted to pay me $2,000.00 ... for that much?

It would be worth having my attorney draw up an iron clad 
no liability contract , then yeah ...I'd put the 50 amp circuit
in...but you're going to have to trust me when I say...I
am competing with non licensed persons , (a lot from western PA)
who hop skip & jump over Lake Pymatuning and low ball these
kind of jobs daily....customers don't pay that well here.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

99cents said:


> Are you chanelling Hack? This is beginning to sound like he's the ventriloquist and you're the dummy.


leave me alone you bully

and Hack hasn't been around so find someone else
to talk s**t about ...someone that can respond.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Mech...if he wanted to pay me $2,000.00 ... for that much?
> 
> It would be worth having my attorney draw up an iron clad
> no liability contract , then yeah ...I'd put the 50 amp circuit
> ...


Well Sir without seeing your panel, the charger, and or the details of the cable run a ballpark estimate would be $2000 ($1000 up front and $1000 upon completion), subject to be higher if more than standard work is needed to finish the installation of a 50 amp range receptacle in the garage.

When would you like this install completed?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Well Sir without seeing your panel, the charger, and or the details of the cable run a ballpark estimate would be $2000 ($1000 up front and $1000 upon completion), subject to be higher if more than standard work is needed to finish the installation of a 50 amp range receptacle in the garage.
> 
> When would you like this install completed?


Mech...wanna partner up ? I need a buffer between 
me and the customer.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Mech...wanna partner up ? I need a buffer between
> me and the customer.


Sure, if I lived closer I would be your on the spot mouth piece to customers.


Some times the intimidation factor is a good thing.


**One thing i did neglect to mention in my previous post is that the $2000 price included the customary 10% discount for cash.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

lighterup said:


> Mech...wanna partner up ?* I need a buffer between
> me and the customer.*


That's the smartest thing you've said in the entire thread.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

flyboy said:


> That's the smartest thing you've said in the entire thread.


and I've known this for a long time .

forgot to mention ...the 2nd smartest post was about the Mr sparky and Mr Electrics


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

lighterup said:


> and I've known this for a long time .
> 
> forgot to mention ...the 2nd smartest post was about the Mr sparky and Mr Electrics


All I know about the "Mr." franchises is that they are lousy business opportunity.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

flyboy said:


> All I know about the "Mr." franchises is that they are lousy business opportunity.


lousy is a nice way to put it.

I think it's a complete sham and fleecing on The USA
and the people who own and operate these business 
are snake oil salesmen.


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## MikeFL (Apr 16, 2016)

Let's agree it could have gone several ways.

OP met the man in person (which none of us did), discussed the work, and declined the work. He by all means has every right to do that. 

Some are in the camp that he should have figured out a way to disclaim suitability for future unidentified use and taken the man's money, and maybe even upsold more work.

But if something doesn't feel right and you aren't hurting for work, by all means, pick and choose your customers and projects.

Next job.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> All I know about the "Mr." franchises is that they are lousy business opportunity.


Not for them.....:whistling2:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

If this customer was a clown, he could be dismissed over the phone. Do you really need to meet him at the door to see he's dressed in baggy pants and has a red rubber ball for a nose?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

am I alone here? ^ what's this guy talking about?


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> am I alone here? ^ what's this guy talking about?


Translation from Canadian speak: didn't the guy come off as an ass on his phone call to you?


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Translation from Canadian speak: didn't the guy come off as an ass on his phone call to you?


Oh i see...no he did not.

he said (paraphrasing) ..."I have some electrical work that I need done
in my garage , are you interested in taking a look at it?"

seemed polite over the phone.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> Oh i see...no he did not.
> 
> he said (paraphrasing) ..."I have some electrical work that I need done
> in my garage , are you interested in taking a look at it?"
> ...


Maybe it was before he had a drink or his wife had scolded him that day.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Maybe it was before he had a drink or his wife had scolded him that day.


I think he had a plan in mind , without considering that I or
any other LICENSED EC that would show up have other
considerations , like doing the job correctly and pulling
a permit etc...
*which he recoiled at the sound of the word "permit"

BTW ...why wouldn't he describe the "electrical work" as 
a "car charger" when he called?

I think he's been rejected by other EC (s) prior to
calling me.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> I think he had a plan in mind , without considering that I or
> any other LICENSED EC that would show up have other
> considerations , like doing the job correctly and pulling
> a permit etc...
> ...


He may think he will get a cable run for $200 but that ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure he has watched 50 youtube videos on how to hack I mean install a charger.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> He may think he will get a cable run for $200 but that ain't gonna happen.
> 
> I'm sure he has watched 50 youtube videos on how to hack I mean install a charger.


I went on Amazon and see 40 amp rated cord & plug connected
car chargers , but I have never had a call to install them.

The only ones I've installed were hardwired directly into the 
charger unit . 

So if I had listened to this guy , I may have had incorrectly
applied the wrong over current protection by 10 amps.

this is why I don't listen to HO's. show me the specs and
I'll bid the job..Damn.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

lighterup said:


> I went on Amazon and see 40 amp rated cord & plug connected
> car chargers , but I have never had a call to install them.
> 
> The only ones I've installed were hardwired directly into the
> ...



That is why my quote would have been for a 50 amp range receptacle and had no mention of any other use in my written proposal. 

What he does after I'm gone is 100% on him.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That is why my quote would have been for a 50 amp range receptacle and had no mention of any other use in my written proposal.
> 
> What he does after I'm gone is 100% on him.


You're right ...you're right ..I know you're right.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I went on Amazon and see 40 amp rated cord & plug connected
> car chargers , but I have never had a call to install them.
> 
> The only ones I've installed were hardwired directly into the
> ...


Range receptacle is 50 amps.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Would someone please tell me how installing a 50 amp receptacle violates any codes, standards, or licensing regulations? I'd submit, very simply, that it does not.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

lighterup said:


> You're right ...you're right ..I know you're right.


You seem to have come full circle on this. You went of the deep end there saying the world would come to an end if you did this, then said you'd have done it if the guy wasn't a d!ck, then you say Mech is right when he said he'd have installed the receptacle. Dude!! Don't forget to breathe.


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## flyboy (Jun 13, 2011)

It's a set up! I don't understand how none of you don't see this. It's clear to me that this guy is a Russian spy sent by Putin to sabotage lighterup's reputation as a licensed electrician in the state of Ohio. 

Once they get lighterup out of the way by hooking up a gas stove, killing their Russian operative by carbon monoxide poising and turning him into the Ohio State Electrical Licensing Board, it will pave the way for them to open up a Mr. Sparky in his market.

It's the beginning of the end of our democratic society as we know it.


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

Jeebus, just call it a 14-50R receptacle and he can plug in a blow up doll as long as it has the right cord end. I could have done this job and taken the guy's money in less time than it has taken to talk about not doing it.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

If someone called me for an extra kitchen countertop receptacle because they wanted to use two nails on the end of a cord to cook hot dogs, you know what I'd do? Install a beautiful and compliant extra kitchen countertop receptacle.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

I defy anyone to link to any article or case where any electrician has been found liable for anything related to how a receptacle was used where his work was otherwise completely compliant.

I just got home from work a short while ago, and it just dawned on me that we have unused 50 amp 480 pin and sleeve receptacles dotted all through the plant so there's not too far to run a cord if someone has to do a weld repair somewhere. I sure hope nobody decides to plug a car charger into one. A huge black hole might open up in the floor and suck us all in.


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

I wish I could be as good as you guys ...but it's hopless ..I'm killing myself
goodbye ya bastids


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## lighterup (Jun 14, 2013)

MDShunk said:


> You seem to have come full circle on this. You went of the deep end there saying the world would come to an end if you did this, then said you'd have done it if the guy wasn't a d!ck, then you say Mech is right when he said he'd have installed the receptacle. Dude!! Don't forget to breathe.


I know you don't understand. That hasn't escaped my attention. We have 
a permir process here. This isn't the Commonwealth of Penssyltucky you
ass*ole


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

^This guy. 

:vs_laugh:

You've yet to explain how installing a 50a receptacle would impede the permit process or put your license in jeopardy? I've done a lot of weird stuff in my career. Some of it ugly too, but you'd have a great deal of difficulty finding anything I've done that was noncompliant.


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## MechanicalDVR (Dec 29, 2007)

flyboy said:


> It's a set up! I don't understand how none of you don't see this. It's clear to me that this guy is a Russian spy sent by Putin to sabotage lighterup's reputation as a licensed electrician in the state of Ohio.
> 
> Once they get lighterup out of the way by hooking up a gas stove, killing their Russian operative by carbon monoxide poising and turning him into the Ohio State Electrical Licensing Board, it will pave the way for them to open up a Mr. Sparky in his market.
> 
> It's the beginning of the end of our democratic society as we know it.


:vs_OMG:

When you get your annual physical for your pilot's license do they drug test?







:vs_laugh:


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## 99cents (Aug 20, 2012)

lighterup said:


> I wish I could be as good as you guys ...but it's hopless ..I'm killing myself
> goodbye ya bastids


We're not bastids.


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