# Redoing work for the 3rd time.



## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

There is a lot of that going on on the floor below me at the job that I'm on.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

It happens. Just paste a smile on your face and do whatever needs done. The worst thing you can do is give anyone the impression that you're irritated. Just do it and be happy about it. Maybe learn a print reading trick or two that might help you next time.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> It happens. Just paste a smile on your face and do whatever needs done. The worst thing you can do is give anyone the impression that you're irritated. Just do it and be happy about it. Maybe learn a print reading trick or two that might help you next time.


 Great advice. It all pays the same to you anyway the boss man might think differently.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> It happens. Just paste a smile on your face and do whatever needs done. The worst thing you can do is give anyone the impression that you're irritated. Just do it and be happy about it. Maybe learn a print reading trick or two that might help you next time.


He figured I'd be annoyed, nobody wants to redo work, especially 3 times. At least the first time me and the journey were working together so one would get on the ladder for the measurements and to strap and secure, while the other bent the pipe. I'm on my own at the moment but I'm trying to move faster to compensate since this foreman really wants to see progress.

This foreman likes to micromanage, even going so far as to tell you how to route your pipe. So as a helper, I definitely do not spend a lot of time comparing the electrical prints to the architectural. Just height and width, that kind of thing.

I guess this would be a good time to remind myself that I get paid by the hour. EDIT: (Speak of the devil)


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## Boneshaker (Jul 31, 2009)

You have the right attitude Frasbee, you get paid by the hour. Take it from a guy who has run work for the better part of 18 years, the last thing I want is for an apprentice to complain about having to do something. Especially when he's fixing a screw up that was my fault. Like Shunk said keep smiling. It sounds like you have a good attitude, that will take you a long way in this business. Even if they don't admit it both the JW and Foreman know it was there mistake, not yours. As far as he being a micromanager and not letting you look at the drawings, that's wrong. He probably wants to feel like the smartest man on the job.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Boneshaker said:


> As far as he being a micromanager and not letting you look at the drawings, that's wrong. He probably wants to feel like the smartest man on the job.


Haha, no no no, they let me look at the drawings, but it's a big job, and there are 2 foreman, one that deals with material and the other trades, and another (the one I'm talking about) that runs the guys. I refer to the prints every now and then, but I'm usually so busy and being managed by a journey that it's usually not necessary for me to study the prints. I can read and navigate them, but like I said, it's a situation where I juts need to focus on doing the doing, while they do the managing.

This job has been pretty stressful. You should've seen how far off the rigid pipe in the slab was from the walls. I spent a lot of time chipping out concrete to either eliminate them, or have them moved. Literally spending 40 hours one week with a big rotor hammer in my hand. The man responsible for them is long gone, to say the least.


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## Celtic (Nov 19, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> So I told him it was because our initial rough measurements taken off from the corner of the building ended up being our final measurements when we stubbed through. I had mentioned using nearby doors and windows as references to measure off of (this is how I was taught at my old company, is common sense if you ask me), but the journey wasn't interested in going back and remeasuring, and felt our initial measurements (just to see about where they would land) were fine.





MDShunk said:


> Maybe learn a print reading trick or two that might help you next time.


Here's a tip;
Use the center line of the steel [measured off the print to the 1/8"]
Get yourself an Architectural Rule .
Everything *should* be measured off steel [especially any deck work]



MDShunk said:


> It happens. Just paste a smile on your face and do whatever needs done. The worst thing you can do is give anyone the impression that you're irritated. Just do it and be happy about it.





Frasbee said:


> He figured I'd be annoyed, nobody wants to redo work, especially 3 times.


Nobody likes a whiner....a winner yes, a whiner :no:




Frasbee said:


> I guess this would be a good time to remind myself that I get paid by the hour. EDIT: (Speak of the devil)


While perfection is what is desired, sometimes it just doesn't happen...enter "The Redo Crew".
Yes it sucks....but it also pays the bills.
Someone has to be "The Redo Crew"....why not you?
You'll remember the f'ups and adjust yourself to acheive "perfection" inspite of "MACs" [moves/adds/changes]


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## TOOL_5150 (Aug 27, 2007)

Really, in this economy, I would just be happy that I am working.

~Matt


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## s.kelly (Mar 20, 2009)

Yes, in this economy, being on the redo crew is a good thing. Been involved in some of the redo and hot project stuff on the job I'm on. Not a ton of job security, but somewhat less likely I will get picked if we fix the troubles:thumbup:


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Along with the other boxes and pipe I had to fix, I got back to the 2 pipe runs I had already adjusted yesterday.

I managed to snag a lift when one of the journeymen left early today and scrapped the 12 ft. Soooooooo much easier. And they look good, too. Well good enough, I've stopped being such a perfectionist since I've gotten on to this job.

Though some of the guys made some snide comments about me being on the lift. It's the first time I've encountered journeymen having any issue with a helper using a lift by himself. The foreman even said it was a "privilege" to get to use a lift.

This company is so weird.


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## Boneshaker (Jul 31, 2009)

I agree with you. That's one wierd company you work for.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> The foreman even said it was a "privilege" to get to use a lift.
> 
> This company is so weird.


Yeah, that is a little weird. On bigger work, pretty much every man installing stuff overhead needs a lift. That's sorta like saying that giving you a stepladder on a resi job is something special. Weird.


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## paul d. (Jul 13, 2008)

Boneshaker said:


> I agree with you. That's one wierd company you work for.


 remember, he IS in new orleans. :whistling2:


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## Boneshaker (Jul 31, 2009)

paul d. said:


> remember, he IS in new orleans. :whistling2:


 
Nuff said.:laughing:


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## dawgs (Dec 1, 2007)

You can be much more productive on a lift than a ladder at that height thus offsetting the cost of the lift wich is only about $30 a day for a 19-20' lift.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

dawgs said:


> You can be much more productive on a lift than a ladder at that height thus offsetting the cost of the lift wich is only about $30 a day for a 19-20' lift.


Tell me about it.

Regardless, there aren't enough lifts for everyone, not even amongst the journeymen. I've been doing all my installs above 12 feet, so the past 2 weeks me and the journey have been carrying 12 foot ladders around along with a cart.

You should've seen it when we were installing 4 inch pipe back in June, phew! :sweatdrop:


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

Redoing your work can get under your nerves, usually the person in charge will say something to preface it such as "I know you're going to be upset..." or "Don't be mad but...". 

There is great advice in this thread, don't show that you are mad (even if you are), be the "go to guy" that the foreman can count on not to give him grief in a sticky situation such as this.

Whenever this happens, I just think to myself, "I'm making just as much doing this as anything else, and this will be easier since it's my second time!".


As for using a lift, IMO, they save a LOT of time in many situations. Currently I am using a lift in which I raise it about 6" to get to my work height. That equals using the fourth step on a 6 foot ladder, but a 6 foot ladder can't hold all my material. A 6 foot ladder doesn't have an 8 foot walking platform and a fully setup "shop". By using some wood planks and milk crates, a scissor lift can hold an incredible amount of tools and material at an arms reach. I can't imagine dragging all those tools and material behind me while climbing up and down a ladder all day, it would cost MUCH more than the lift rental (my contractor owns these lifts anyway).


On the helper using a lift subject, things can be VERY different in different shops and areas. I don't like the term helper, it makes me think of the Summer Help kids that come to organize material and run stuff to the electricians. I think an apprentice is different, an apprentice is an electrician in his learning years. An apprentice should be doing at least 50% electrical work, if not more. There are plenty of times that I make a run for the material while my apprentice does the work simply because I feel he needs more experience doing that job. 

On the other hand, some electricians think that no apprentice should be doing work, only journeymen. That's a big disservice to the trade, IMO.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

BadSplice said:


> On the other hand, some electricians think that no apprentice should be doing work, only journeymen. That's a big disservice to the trade, IMO.


I agree. My philosophy behind using a helper is that they are so that the jman can do less work and more thinking/planning.


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## william1978 (Sep 21, 2008)

dawgs said:


> You can be much more productive on a lift than a ladder at that height thus offsetting the cost of the lift wich is only about $30 a day for a 19-20' lift.


 How would get a lift in a house?


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## BadSplice (Sep 5, 2009)

william1978 said:


> How would get a lift in a house?


 They make plenty of 1 man lifts that will fit thru a 3 foot door. I was on a 40 footer the other day.


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## drsparky (Nov 13, 2008)

william1978 said:


> How would get a lift in a house?


The door.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

william1978 said:


> How would get a lift in a house?


Tornado. Poltergeist. Aliens. Most people would roll it in the door.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

BadSplice said:


> On the helper using a lift subject, things can be VERY different in different shops and areas. I don't like the term helper, it makes me think of the Summer Help kids that come to organize material and run stuff to the electricians. I think an apprentice is different, an apprentice is an electrician in his learning years. An apprentice should be doing at least 50% electrical work, if not more. There are plenty of times that I make a run for the material while my apprentice does the work simply because I feel he needs more experience doing that job.
> 
> On the other hand, some electricians think that no apprentice should be doing work, only journeymen. That's a big disservice to the trade, IMO.


I've continued to label myself a helper since I haven't done school, though thanks to the last company I worked for, I learned _a lot_ in a relatively short amount of time. I will be starting school this week, at which point I will change my title.

Even within a company though, some electricians will manage their helpers/apprentices lightly, and others will micromanage.

As of late, I love when I get a chance to work by myself because some of these guys will question everything I'm doing. Don't get me wrong, I try to keep an open mind, I know that everyone does things differently and I'm open to learning how to do things easier and faster. But sometimes, it's okay to do a 3 point saddle the text book way.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

Didn't want to create another thread for this so I'll update this one since it is relevant to the original post.

The journeyman I had been working with to run that pipe, was laid off partially because, as they put it, "had his helper up on the ladder doin' all the thinking while he talked on his phone all day".

I fished out a compliment in the thick of that.

Another journeyman I've been working alongside (but not assisting), told me he liked how I've been running my pipe. Feels good when someone vocalizes their approval. Especially on this job because I've still been worrying the balance of quantity vs quality.

Big Boss also happened to come on the job yesterday to smooth over some issues with the GC but told the foreman he was really impressed with the workmanship he was seeing. So despite having to be there on such hectic circumstances he left feeling good about how things were running. 

I think that really boosted everyone's morale.


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Sounds like everyone's advice to grin and bear it worked out in your favor.


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## Frasbee (Apr 7, 2008)

MDShunk said:


> Sounds like everyone's advice to grin and bear it worked out in your favor.


Well at the time of the original post I think my exasperated sigh made clear my frustration with that particular situation.

However, I've been trying to stay relatively neutral on things like that since then.

So yes, it has.

Good advice everyone. :thumbup:


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## MDShunk (Jan 7, 2007)

Frasbee said:


> However, I've been trying to stay relatively neutral on things like that since then.


Being a helper, and not having any special responsibilities (other than do what you're told), does have its advantages.


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## Shado (Jan 1, 2009)

Keep rollin with it Frasbee...I feel you are going to make one hell of a sparky one day....:thumbup:


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