# powerflex 525 1hp power up requirement



## BillyMac59

Go online to AB and get the specs on the drive. If its 120v infeed, you can plug it into a regular outlet and maybe choke it down with a fuse depending on the drive specs....I've read your post a few times and still can't understand the meter and transformer...


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## ElectricMatt

What is the model of the drive?


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## gpop

ValeoBill said:


> Go online to AB and get the specs on the drive. If its 120v infeed, you can plug it into a regular outlet and maybe choke it down with a fuse depending on the drive specs....I've read your post a few times and still can't understand the meter and transformer...



Im going to take 120v transform it to 240v single phase to power up a 3 phase 240v vfd. On the load side of the vfd im going to hook up a phase rotation meter which is a very low amp motor so the drive doesn't sense load loss and it allows me to see the drive running. I just need to work out what size transformer i will require (100va-500va ?)


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## BillyMac59

Sorry my friend ...I completely misunderstood where you were going with this...I can't offer help but will watch thread with interest...


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## gpop

ElectricMatt said:


> What is the model of the drive?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure until i pick one out of spare parts tomorrow i would presume something like a
*25b-a2p5n114 *


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## micromind

I've backfed the control transformer in MCC buckets in order to program drives. I just used clip leads on the 120 side and the drive powered up ok. Pretty small transformer, maybe 100VA.


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## Forge Boyz

gpop said:


> Im going to take 120v transform it to 240v single phase to power up a 3 phase 240v vfd. On the load side of the vfd im going to hook up a phase rotation meter which is a very low amp motor so the drive doesn't sense load loss and it allows me to see the drive running. I just need to work out what size transformer i will require (100va-500va ?)


Why not just feed it single phase 240v? Do you even need the transformer?

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## gpop

Forge Boyz said:


> Why not just feed it single phase 240v? Do you even need the transformer?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Easier to use 120 as the plc and computer is set up on my work bench in the house


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## 460 Delta

One thing to be aware of is that many small control xformers have what I think is called turn compensation. The output is deliberately high [130-135vac] before loading then settles down under load to 115-120 vac. If you back feed through one, you may well only end up with 210-200 vac, the drive may not care though.


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## splatz

I remember @JRaef talking about something like this, he found that a 100VA transformer would power the electronics of any drive he's tried

Portable device to power up a VFD

I like your idea of using an old phase rotation meter for the load, that's good thinking. 

The enclosure is a Hammond vented NEMA 1, I don't know if he uses a Hammond transformer as well but I like Hammond quite a bit. 

Small Enclosure for DIN rail


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## paulengr

Internally a VFD runs on DC. Most VFDs will accept single phase outright and convert to three phase as long as you double the rating. So for a 10 kw motor you need a 20 kw drive.

There are also voltage doubler drives. So they will convert say single phase 120 to 3 phase 230. These are the ones that are used for training/demo drives. I have half a dozen in our shop from various demo units we collected over time.

But honestly your use case is a time waster.

To truly commission a VFD step 1 is Megger the motor with it unwired. Step 2 is take the coupling off, disable all IO, and first test rotation then auto tune. Step 3 is couple and test run under load. Step 4 is to enable all the IO.

You can’t do step 1 and 2 without a motor in place and if you are using vector control (why aren’t you) the tuning must be done with the same motor and wiring in place, no short cuts. So by the time you get through messing with the laptop, I’ve already keyed in the motor nameplate and put it in keypad mode ready to test rotation. 

The laptop is a distraction until step 4. Even then it is an extremely rare day that I run into applications that actually use the full capabilities of most VFDs. Almost all jobs use maybe 10-20 settings except the basic parameter stuff. So by the time you make the extra trip to get the laptop, power cord, communication cables, and usually a cart or table to set it up on, the hooking all that up, waiting for the computer to boot and run the software, establish communication, load files...all that just so you don’t have to use a keypad while looking at the list of parameters in the book. All that for 10-20 settings. It looks nice in the training class but that’s also in good lighting with easily accessible power strips, with no dirt, no grease from the coupling, no crawling on your hands and knees and holding a flashlight in your mouth or fighting dead batteries with a head light.

So I know it looks easy but it’s a total waste of time.

The only reason AB pushed computer based programming is because they are insane. A VFD should not need a 600-1200 page manual just for programming and need over 2000 parameter settings. Even servos are not that ridiculous. I’ve done it both ways. Unless you have a bunch of drives to set up in which case they are all networked, leave the laptop in the truck. It’s a huge time waster. It’s only a good thing if you are doing Ethernet to the drive using a PLC in which case it’s already hooked up might as well use it. Then you can flash settings in 30 seconds.


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## gpop

paulengr said:


> Internally a VFD runs on DC. Most VFDs will accept single phase outright and convert to three phase as long as you double the rating. So for a 10 kw motor you need a 20 kw drive.
> 
> There are also voltage doubler drives. So they will convert say single phase 120 to 3 phase 230. These are the ones that are used for training/demo drives. I have half a dozen in our shop from various demo units we collected over time.
> 
> But honestly your use case is a time waster.
> 
> To truly commission a VFD step 1 is Megger the motor with it unwired. Step 2 is take the coupling off, disable all IO, and first test rotation then auto tune. Step 3 is couple and test run under load. Step 4 is to enable all the IO.
> 
> You can’t do step 1 and 2 without a motor in place and if you are using vector control (why aren’t you) the tuning must be done with the same motor and wiring in place, no short cuts. So by the time you get through messing with the laptop, I’ve already keyed in the motor nameplate and put it in keypad mode ready to test rotation.
> 
> The laptop is a distraction until step 4. Even then it is an extremely rare day that I run into applications that actually use the full capabilities of most VFDs. Almost all jobs use maybe 10-20 settings except the basic parameter stuff. So by the time you make the extra trip to get the laptop, power cord, communication cables, and usually a cart or table to set it up on, the hooking all that up, waiting for the computer to boot and run the software, establish communication, load files...all that just so you don’t have to use a keypad while looking at the list of parameters in the book. All that for 10-20 settings. It looks nice in the training class but that’s also in good lighting with easily accessible power strips, with no dirt, no grease from the coupling, no crawling on your hands and knees and holding a flashlight in your mouth or fighting dead batteries with a head light.
> 
> So I know it looks easy but it’s a total waste of time.
> 
> The only reason AB pushed computer based programming is because they are insane. A VFD should not need a 600-1200 page manual just for programming and need over 2000 parameter settings. Even servos are not that ridiculous. I’ve done it both ways. Unless you have a bunch of drives to set up in which case they are all networked, leave the laptop in the truck. It’s a huge time waster. It’s only a good thing if you are doing Ethernet to the drive using a PLC in which case it’s already hooked up might as well use it. Then you can flash settings in 30 seconds.



Im moving data backwards and forwards over ethernet and seeing if i can bypass the plc and pull some data directly to the touch screen so i do not require a motor. Also its a 525 with the stupid little display that's a pain to program so its easier to use the laptop while playing with the drive. 

I also need the practice on remote programming the drive so i do not have to leave the house to troubleshoot or replace one. Its easier to do this on the bench then to remote into the system and learning on a running unit especially as a mistake means a 30 mile drive.


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## gpop

micromind said:


> I've backfed the control transformer in MCC buckets in order to program drives. I just used clip leads on the 120 side and the drive powered up ok. Pretty small transformer, maybe 100VA.


Van skipped timing so that went to the shop with alot of my spare parts including the drive and transformer.

So plan B i found a 480v 3hp 525 drive but i could not find a 100va transformer so i tried a 80va i had laying around. Like 460delta pointed out the transformer output was low at 435 but that's still in range for the drive. (min 375) so i took a few readings and it looks like the drive requires 75va with out the fan running so that was a little close for comfort. Next best thing i had on hand was a 500va which works fine but its made the box heavy. It will work for now. 
looks like you were correct with the 100va recommendation.


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## gpop

Starting to look like a bad science fair project





















One day im going to set up a proper work station then again i have been on about cleaning my workshop for the last 15 years


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